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| 08:39.07 | Maloeran | May this new year bring peace and harmony in all IT departments! |
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| 17:30.07 | ``Erik | ooh, that reminds me, I need to check bofh |
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| 19:44.23 | dli | I'm learning brlcad, the radio (lesson), the radio is rotating now, how to stop it |
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| 21:13.57 | brlcad | dli: press 0 |
| 21:14.55 | brlcad | xyzXYZ rotate along the corresponding axis, 0 stops the rotation (in the graphics window) |
| 21:15.49 | dli | brlcad, thanks, I pressed 'z', that's the reason |
| 21:16.35 | brlcad | 1,2,3 set to default views iirc |
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| 01:30.14 | Twingy | heh |
| 05:03.58 | ``Erik | look at it this way, mal, at least he's gotten over the mmbop thing. |
| 06:22.56 | brlcad | hehe, fun with elastic fluids http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8183380788103127428 |
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| 18:44.55 | IriX64 | bu_free() ?!?!? |
| 18:44.59 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 18:45.59 | IriX64 | should work even if its a pointer to a pointer right? |
| 19:32.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tgc reports one hit errors though hit point has 0,0,0 direction implying that maybe the point was supposedly deleted |
| 22:41.24 | Maloeran | Eh, nice question from IriX64 |
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| 08:44.28 | clock_ | Hello |
| 08:44.52 | clock_ | Do you know how to make an animation, where the model I created is rotating? |
| 08:45.03 | clock_ | I want it for better clarity how it's composed. |
| 08:45.56 | clock_ | There seems to be rt_simple manpage missing - is it a bug? |
| 08:46.22 | clock_ | And when in the mged console and I press pageup, pagedown and then type a command, the command is inserted *before* the prompt instead of after it, and then is ignored. |
| 08:46.27 | clock_ | Is this also a bug? |
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| 15:03.34 | brlcad | clock_: yes, regarding page up/down bug .. regarding rt_simple, not really though a manpage would be nice |
| 15:03.47 | brlcad | feel free to write one.. it's a simple tool :) |
| 15:05.47 | clock_ | I found some guide for animation. |
| 15:19.50 | brlcad | clock_: there was a message posted to the list several months ago for how (but Butler) for doing exactly that (rotating an object, making an animation) |
| 15:19.58 | brlcad | s/but/from/ |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (241 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initial import of the openNURBS initiative's nurbs toolkit. the toolkit |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: consists of code for reading/writing .3dm files used by Rhino as well as nurbs |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: evaluation and other geometry processing facilities. the library is being |
| 15:21.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: evaluated for .3dm support as well as potentially gutting the existing nurbs |
| 15:21.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: primitive and using openNURBS evaluation routines instead (still probably need |
| 15:21.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to implement ray shot evaluation). this is version 200612050 (aka 4.0). |
| 15:22.12 | clock_ | brlcad: I have read about the keyframes I think this will be better than a simple rotation. |
| 15:24.50 | brlcad | a better animation guide is really needed -- i'm not too fond of the existing, though it does go into detail |
| 15:25.22 | brlcad | it's not even really a guide |
| 15:25.28 | brlcad | it was a technical paper about the technique |
| 15:28.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/on4-gcc4-patch: the user-provided gcc4 patch that fixes compilation was applied (basically added a lot of explicit this-> designations), no need to keep the file around though |
| 15:32.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review 'eclectic' from GSI as a tessellation approach, review and merge the other GSI modifications |
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| 15:39.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: if endgame framework simulation module compilation was requested, traverse into the EndgameFramework dir |
| 15:40.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/EndgameFramework/Makefile.am: stub makefile.am so traversal will work |
| 15:47.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the endgame framework makefile |
| 17:23.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the originator/vendor for 'compiler' instead of the name of the compiler since we may use multiple at once in some odd configurations |
| 18:16.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_zlib.h: zlib wasn't included, so update code to reflect usage of a usual zlib.h |
| 19:28.56 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) | |
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| 19:46.10 | clock_ | I think the user doesn't care if Animation techniques happened to be presented as an ARL technical report, presented by a user group, or are considered a principle of effective modelling. |
| 19:46.37 | clock_ | I think what the user cares is to distinguish between animation, primitives, raytracing, and other technical terms. |
| 19:47.10 | clock_ | Therefore I suggest the documentation on the website not to be categorized according to into which bureaucratical category this or that document happened to fall, but according to the content itself. |
| 19:49.38 | brlcad | clock_: i quite agree |
| 19:50.46 | brlcad | whenver the new website comes on-line, it'll be better organized like that .. not much worth futzing with the existing unless something's painfully bad |
| 19:50.48 | clock_ | I also wouldn't categorize into "documentation" and "other resources" |
| 19:50.52 | brlcad | unless you'd like to clean it up? :) |
| 19:51.20 | clock_ | I want to find out about term/concept X. Is there a black box into which I type "X" and it says "look under other resources, not under Documentation"? |
| 19:51.38 | brlcad | yeah, we need a wiki for that |
| 19:52.01 | clock_ | no for that you just need to edit the headlines |
| 19:52.48 | brlcad | er, what headlines? |
| 19:53.28 | clock_ | also "project site" is ridiculous. Isn't the brl-cad.org a project site by itself? Isn't BRL-CAD a project? |
| 19:54.01 | clock_ | I suggest "Project site" to be renamed to "sourceforge page" |
| 19:54.39 | clock_ | Also "introduction into MGED" into "tutorial for beginners" |
| 19:54.44 | brlcad | clock_: yes and no, but the suggest is noted |
| 19:55.18 | clock_ | Really, when a beginner comes, he has an idea "I want to learn the basics", and he has no idea that "learn basics" translates into "introduction to mged" |
| 19:55.21 | brlcad | it's not really a tutorial for beginners, it's a lot of tutorials |
| 19:55.29 | brlcad | unless you want to call it one massive tutorial |
| 19:55.37 | brlcad | which doesn't seem right given it's length |
| 19:56.05 | brlcad | mind you, I quite agree for the need .. again, I ask -- you willing to make the changes? :) |
| 19:56.34 | clock_ | "principles of effective modelling" sounds like a textbook. I would name the link "how to model effectively with BRL-CAD" |
| 19:57.01 | brlcad | that's what I mentioned about it just not being much worth the effort without the rest of the site infrastructure in place |
| 19:57.18 | clock_ | I mean a beginner will think "this sounds like a title of some general abstract textbook about CSG, which is not specific to BRL-CAD, therefore I'm gonna skip this link, this link will not probably contain the information I am looking for" |
| 19:57.22 | brlcad | else someone(tm) spends several days/weeks of valuable time going through customizing the site |
| 19:57.46 | brlcad | clock_: you do know where those docs come from? |
| 19:58.16 | brlcad | they are books .. printed books .. makes a lot more sense when someone drops 10 pounds of books in your lap, all related to brl-cad |
| 19:58.39 | brlcad | they were literally just "tossed up" onto the website in the fastest way possible just so they were accessible |
| 19:59.03 | clock_ | You are thinking the 60's style, when people had to work only with one computer software. |
| 19:59.04 | brlcad | there never is/was a claim that more work isn't needed, that they can't be better organized, that more effort "should" go towards them |
| 19:59.12 | brlcad | bullshit |
| 19:59.21 | brlcad | i'm saying you're not listening :) |
| 19:59.25 | clock_ | Today they have to work with hundreds of different softwares. The documentation must be simplified and accessible as much as possible. |
| 19:59.44 | clock_ | It's not possible anymore to conceive everything like a book that is supposed to be read on long winter evenings. |
| 19:59.47 | brlcad | AND I AGREE |
| 19:59.52 | brlcad | are YOU going to do it? |
| 19:59.56 | clock_ | no |
| 20:00.03 | brlcad | then stop preaching |
| 20:00.09 | clock_ | Why? |
| 20:00.19 | brlcad | because it's counterproductive |
| 20:00.23 | clock_ | I am just telling my suggestions |
| 20:00.56 | brlcad | well, you diverged from a suggestion a while ago |
| 20:01.48 | clock_ | Do you have a new version of the website being prepared somewhere? |
| 20:03.06 | brlcad | the ideas are fine, and welcome in themselves -- especially for the website, a lot is very much needed -- what is up there now is utterly the *bare minimum* effort that was possible, becuase there wasn't available effort for anything more really |
| 20:04.05 | brlcad | the basic design and layout are done, there was a couple people testing out various content management systems as well and that was narrowed down to what is needed |
| 20:04.56 | brlcad | but yes, there is a new version that has been under development since the first files were thrown up -- it's just the website has priority under most everything else usually (for better or worse) |
| 20:05.21 | clock_ | Sorry I don't have time to help you with the website now I am trying to make an animated raytrace of a coloured Ronja part |
| 20:05.29 | brlcad | there's not enough community involvement, so the bare minimum stays up there |
| 20:05.45 | brlcad | and I'm trying to integrate the new foundation for improved NURBS support :) |
| 20:05.56 | clock_ | I had a wiki on Ronja but I abandoned it after some time because |
| 20:06.01 | clock_ | - it got hacked |
| 20:06.06 | clock_ | - it got filled with spam |
| 20:06.07 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:06.21 | clock_ | - the content people posted was sometimes inaccurate and misleading |
| 20:06.29 | clock_ | - it required frequent security updates |
| 20:06.36 | clock_ | - it was hard to upgrade |
| 20:06.44 | brlcad | doesn't have to be an open wiki, that would be pretty crazy |
| 20:07.05 | clock_ | I stayed back with manually-edited PHP HTML and I am happy with it |
| 20:07.16 | brlcad | and several of those issues are specific to the wiki you chose |
| 20:09.22 | brlcad | it's really just been a matter of priorities .. the website is probably the #3 biggest problem are right now |
| 20:09.30 | clock_ | I tried first twiki, later when it got hacked I switched to Mediawiki |
| 20:09.51 | clock_ | Well your website isn't the worst |
| 20:10.08 | clock_ | the worst website in my opinion is of the linux kernel, http://www.kernel.org |
| 20:10.30 | brlcad | #2 supporting existing users sufficiently |
| 20:11.02 | brlcad | #1 modeling interface, usability |
| 20:15.56 | brlcad | brl-cad's old website was manually-edited php html .. it was a pain in the arse to maintain |
| 20:16.13 | brlcad | and to add major features was unthinkable |
| 20:16.54 | brlcad | there's a lot of good effort going into CMS that make them appealing, even if they have limitations or a learning curve |
| 20:17.58 | brlcad | anyhow we're pretty much past that learning curve -- it's down to just actually installing and setting it up. the content is gathered together, the design is set, graphics created .. just need the time to set it up some weekend |
| 20:18.27 | clock_ | I was surprised that I modelled a lens from glass and it really distorted the image - and caused a light from a light source to be concentrated |
| 20:19.03 | brlcad | it should give you perfect refraction |
| 20:19.26 | clock_ | Yes looked like a perfect refraction |
| 20:19.27 | brlcad | which isn't realistic for normal glass, but useful |
| 20:19.47 | clock_ | what do you mean with perfect refraction? |
| 20:20.22 | clock_ | Without chromatic aberration? |
| 20:20.22 | dtidrow_work | no wavelength depedence, perhaps? |
| 20:20.34 | brlcad | there's no participating media interaction .. microscopic air bubbles that might distort the image, blur, polarize, band filter, etc |
| 20:23.08 | brlcad | the multispectral library could do wavelength-dependent interactions, give you polarizations, filterings, etc .. if you wrote the appropriate multispectral shader to simulate the medium (glass in this case, or a sufficient phong or cook-torrence shader perhaps) |
| 20:26.20 | clock_ | I have great difficulty with that because even Firefox copies everything as one line |
| 20:26.32 | clock_ | Maybe giving key-chans for download would be more convenient. |
| 20:27.16 | brlcad | key-chans? |
| 20:27.27 | clock_ | yes, key-chans |
| 20:27.50 | brlcad | ~key-chans |
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| 20:29.58 | clock_ | hmm, key-chans seems to work even on OpenBSD - with their chronically exotic versions of various UNIX utilities. This one is using awk as I can see |
| 20:32.12 | dli | I'm learning "Learning about Boolean Expressions", the auto operation order is confusing to me, can I specify the order like ( shape1 u shape2) - ( shape3 u shape4) |
| 20:35.30 | brlcad | dli: there are a couple commands that accept infix notation, but most are prefix |
| 20:35.45 | brlcad | maybe see http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/cs2121/fix.html for a conversion |
| 20:35.59 | dli | brlcad, thanks |
| 20:36.23 | brlcad | or build it up if you want to keep it simple |
| 20:37.03 | clock_ | I am sure for most people the necessity to cut-copy-paste UNIX shellscripts from a website and type a lot of typo-prone commands would be the ultimate turnoff |
| 20:37.06 | dli | brlcad, you mean, I first got shape1 + shape2, etc? |
| 20:37.06 | brlcad | make object outer: shape1 u shape2 .. then object inner: shape3 u shape 4 .. then final object: outer - inner |
| 20:37.18 | clock_ | and that it would motivate them to stop using BRL-CAD and start using some commercial competition instead |
| 20:38.44 | brlcad | clock_: and for a valuable minority, hopefully encourage them to contribute to help make the open source project better |
| 20:39.23 | clock_ | brlcad: the problem is, I see these problems on majority of the tools, and I unfortunately don't have time to engage in improvement of all of them |
| 20:39.28 | brlcad | there's lots of great ideas, and lots of energy going around -- just not towards the tools in a unified manner so much |
| 20:39.35 | clock_ | I think it's more efficient to engage in improvement of my own crap, i. e. Ronja |
| 20:40.09 | brlcad | clock_: i didn't mean you specifically this time ;) |
| 20:40.22 | clock_ | When people send me ideas about Ronja ("this link should be called differently because it's confusing"), I put the into my TODO list and they get eventually done :) |
| 20:40.44 | brlcad | that is the issue -- everyone has their own investment and requirements.. have to get people excited and interested in contributing, making it "worth it" for them |
| 20:41.17 | brlcad | as do I, massive TODO file |
| 20:41.24 | brlcad | and gets towards #2 that I was talking about |
| 20:42.23 | brlcad | we simply have way more coming in than can go out |
| 20:42.29 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: how many K is that TODO file? ;-) |
| 20:42.32 | brlcad | given current involvement |
| 20:43.20 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: not really representative by K as I'll consolidate something that might be a man-year's effort into a 1-liner |
| 20:43.55 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:44.29 | brlcad | clock_: the animation tools are not production-ready, if I didn't say that before -- they were a hack implemented 15 years ago to make a few movies and haven't changed since |
| 20:44.59 | dtidrow_work | I love those on the todo list - one innocent looking line explodes into a whole mess of work... :-\ |
| 20:45.17 | clock_ | 15 years ago lol :) |
| 20:45.21 | brlcad | yeah .. "* add support for levels of detail" |
| 20:45.31 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 20:45.43 | brlcad | "librt-based path tracer" |
| 20:45.46 | clock_ | I wrote a game for ZX Spectrum 10 years ago and recently I finally published it :) |
| 20:46.31 | dtidrow_work | in basic? |
| 20:46.52 | clock_ | no in Z80 assembler |
| 20:47.06 | dtidrow_work | gosh, even ten years ago the ZX was old |
| 20:48.32 | brlcad | hmm.. looks like there's currently 77 items in the todo file, 46 in the bugs file, 23 in the feature tracker, 48 in the bug tracker, and about two dozen outstanding support requests via e-mail (that will each take about a half a day of time to respond to) |
| 20:49.16 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:49.36 | dtidrow_work | so how many man-decades does that mean? ;-) |
| 20:50.04 | brlcad | compiled a list of pressing modeler needs here locally after getting together with several of them .. the list they generated of the most pressing needs accummulated to about 8 man-years of work iirc |
| 20:50.51 | Maloeran | But that's 6 months of brlcad and ``Erik work, right? :) |
| 20:50.56 | brlcad | i dunno for the whole list.. it's probably on the order or 15-150 years .. depends on the polish :) |
| 20:51.25 | brlcad | Maloeran: heh.. |
| 20:51.48 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: do you even remember what 'sleep' is? ;-) |
| 20:52.09 | Maloeran | A glibc wrapper around the syscall, of course |
| 20:52.29 | dtidrow_work | ha ha ha |
| 20:52.32 | brlcad | plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead |
| 20:53.03 | brlcad | which might not be too long after a few more years like this |
| 20:53.14 | dli | how do I adjust a parameter of a defined shape (prim)? |
| 20:53.21 | brlcad | but then rowing, lifting, and biking keep me young ;) |
| 20:53.41 | brlcad | dli: you want the command-line method, or the gui method? |
| 20:54.02 | brlcad | command-line: sed object .. then a variety of commands depending on the edit |
| 20:54.10 | dli | brlcad, I prefer cli, the GUI prim editor is confusing also |
| 20:54.12 | brlcad | gui: go to the edit menu |
| 20:54.23 | brlcad | prim selection |
| 20:54.37 | Maloeran | SURVICE is working on an immigration visa and they put June 1st as date to begin as an employee, there's no way I can get a driving license before then... Seems I'll do a whole lot of biking too :) |
| 20:54.39 | brlcad | enter primitive name, hit enter.. should show parameters that can be adjusted |
| 20:55.09 | dli | brlcad, rror: Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT state. |
| 20:55.09 | dli | Expecting VIEWING state |
| 20:55.10 | brlcad | er, can't get a license in six months?? |
| 20:55.23 | brlcad | dli: ah, you're already editing "something" |
| 20:55.27 | Maloeran | Not in Canada, takes 12 months to get a "real" license allowing one to drive without supervision |
| 20:55.31 | brlcad | type: reject or accept |
| 20:55.51 | brlcad | ahh, provisional timeframe |
| 20:56.04 | Maloeran | Or should I look for some obscure state that delivers driving licenses by mail within 5 days? |
| 20:56.06 | dli | brlcad, must be the GUI editor, I couldn't figure out the prim editor :( |
| 20:56.33 | brlcad | dli: :) .. there should also be accept and reject menu items on the edit menu |
| 20:57.00 | clock_ | If this is my last words, then it's cause by a salad dressing which is already 3 months beyond it's horizon |
| 20:57.41 | brlcad | nasty |
| 20:57.43 | Maloeran | If you managed to overcome the natural vomiting reflex, it can't have been that bad |
| 20:57.49 | clock_ | smells good, tastes good... |
| 20:58.07 | clock_ | Now Saddam can come with his Anthrax - I am resistant to biological weapons |
| 20:58.23 | clock_ | Actually - he can't. 1) he doesn't have biological weapons, 2) he suffered clinical death |
| 20:58.24 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 20:59.30 | dtidrow_work | rope neckties generally lead to 2 :-) |
| 20:59.37 | dli | brlcad, can I just remake the prim? it's unioned, sed just gives me a warning |
| 21:03.37 | clock_ | lol viewsize eye_pt orientation - is the script going to ask me about my sexual orientation? |
| 21:04.55 | dli | brlcad, yes, kill && in works better |
| 21:08.10 | brlcad | dli: yes you can |
| 21:08.35 | brlcad | that's actually expected use, even if it's being referenced by another object |
| 21:08.41 | Maloeran | What is that animation you are trying to record, clock_? |
| 21:08.47 | brlcad | so you can swap out arbitrary geometry as needed |
| 21:11.29 | Maloeran | Recording an animation seems like a simple thing to do, I just dump the raw frames and mencode the resulting file to a more standard format |
| 21:11.52 | ``Erik | mal: if you need, I can help ya learn to drive... provided I get my truck working, or you buy a car... you ain't learnin' on my m3 :D (my truck is manual, autos are a lot easier, but I personally don't call that driving). I THINK, for an adult, it's only like 3 or 6 mo, MAYBE less... |
| 21:12.10 | ``Erik | brlcad: new website? eh? |
| 21:12.23 | brlcad | ``Erik: yah, what? |
| 21:12.38 | ``Erik | clock: sourceforge, put it in 'feature requests' or 'bugtracker' and stfu. Also; if you want to claim one and do it... DO IT |
| 21:12.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (3 files): remove the z_ prefix protection so that openNURBS can be linked against an installed system zlib library (there were no namespace collisions) |
| 21:12.39 | Maloeran | Eheh, thanks Erik. I think I'm going to get one of these 2 places Smart car |
| 21:12.49 | brlcad | that was something I started years ago when I first started |
| 21:13.01 | ``Erik | like... 8 yrs ago? |
| 21:13.01 | ``Erik | hah |
| 21:13.09 | brlcad | naht that long |
| 21:13.41 | ``Erik | unfortunately, I have too much experience with webby type things... if it's drudge work, fuck off, but if ti's just a hurdle, mebbe I cna help :) |
| 21:14.35 | brlcad | was seriously working on it about 4 years ago, and then had to shelve it to make the open sourcing happen |
| 21:15.00 | brlcad | it's been worked on a bit since, I even paid someone to work on it for a while, but still was usurped by other priorities |
| 21:15.28 | ``Erik | I've grown irate enough to decide that I amke my own priorities. |
| 21:15.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: I feel exactly the same -- had I needed the site 10 years ago, I would have spent the weeks and would have made something kick ass |
| 21:16.10 | brlcad | now it's just boring tripe that takes way too long and involves too much fruitless hacking |
| 21:17.04 | Maloeran | ``Erik, seems to be 6 months in Maryland for a license. Is a license from a state valid in another? |
| 21:17.05 | brlcad | getting the site itself isn't a big deal, that's part why I really want a CMS up so that after whatever goonie is gone that set it up, the site can still be maintained and improved |
| 21:17.10 | ``Erik | after I build a perf testbed app to compare rayfarce and adrt |
| 21:17.15 | brlcad | Maloeran: yes |
| 21:17.21 | Maloeran | Because there seems to be states with far less... restrictive requirements |
| 21:17.30 | ``Erik | mal: usually, MIGHT require taking a test, but no probation period |
| 21:18.24 | brlcad | yeah, I knew a few friends that drove down to VA to get their license because the test was easier |
| 21:18.24 | ``Erik | when I moved from washington to missouri, I had to take a written test, eye exam, and then I got a license... when I moved from 'missouri' (tn with a mo license), I just had to take an eye exam |
| 21:18.24 | brlcad | but hey, the test really isn't hard -- if you're failing, there's probably a reason |
| 21:18.47 | Maloeran | Eheh, nice. A car, I'm sure that drives just like a bicycle :) |
| 21:18.58 | Maloeran | I think I'll get something like : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo |
| 21:19.05 | brlcad | ahh, the driving test should be the least of your worries ;) |
| 21:19.07 | ``Erik | for the most part, bicycles have to follow car rules when on the road |
| 21:20.03 | brlcad | there are a couple tricks to the test (usually stop lights and proper parallel parking), but more get the written test wrong |
| 21:20.23 | ``Erik | look at the retard redneck idiots who drive... it can't be THAT difficult |
| 21:20.33 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:20.34 | ``Erik | and if you're feeling really REALLY inbred, just go to wv for the test |
| 21:20.35 | brlcad | which usually just means they don't understand the laws that they're supposed to be abiding by (or the test has poorly worded questions) *ahem* |
| 21:20.36 | ``Erik | *duck* :D |
| 21:20.52 | Maloeran | Tests are rather difficult in Quebec I heard... Some people go get a license in the states because they can't get one here |
| 21:20.53 | brlcad | don't think there's is much different from MDs |
| 21:21.08 | brlcad | er, theirs |
| 21:21.26 | ``Erik | most of it is undertsanding the signals being presented |
| 21:21.37 | ``Erik | red light means stop, double yellow in the middle means no pass, etc |
| 21:21.39 | Maloeran | Ah well, 6 months is good, I can manage biking for a month or two initially |
| 21:22.17 | ``Erik | the apt complex I lived in for my first 6mo in md is right across 95 from survice |
| 21:22.41 | ``Erik | when we went to that restraunt in marks mazda, we passed it |
| 21:23.11 | ``Erik | the one that made me sick o>O |
| 21:25.24 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 21:25.28 | ``Erik | rooms or bedrooms/ |
| 21:25.36 | Maloeran | 5 rooms, 2 bedrooms |
| 21:25.44 | ``Erik | the one I had was 9 rooms, plus a deck |
| 21:25.49 | Maloeran | Oh, okay :) |
| 21:26.17 | ``Erik | and a wood burning fireplace, and covered parking, and ... |
| 21:26.18 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:26.28 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: where was this? |
| 21:26.37 | ``Erik | um, belcamp |
| 21:26.40 | ``Erik | behind the hotel |
| 21:26.45 | ``Erik | 'aborwood' or something |
| 21:26.59 | Maloeran | Requirement for MD driving license : "Two documents establishing your Maryland residency" |
| 21:27.00 | ``Erik | arborwood, even |
| 21:27.34 | ``Erik | mal: power bill is sufficient for one, apt pmt is probably sufficient |
| 21:28.24 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ./moss.rt |
| 21:28.24 | clock_ | ./moss.rt: line 1: 24787 Segmentation fault (core dumped) rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim |
| 21:28.30 | clock_ | wohoo :) |
| 21:28.45 | ``Erik | ooohhhh, you better fix that, clock |
| 21:29.15 | Maloeran | ``Erik: I mean I can't just apply now and wait 6 months from this point |
| 21:35.40 | clock_ | ``Erik: I can send the files |
| 21:37.03 | ``Erik | mal: I think the 6mo assumes education... |
| 21:37.10 | ``Erik | clock: sf.net/projects/brlcad |
| 21:38.03 | clock_ | Does this help? |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | #0 0x1c008158 in do_pixel (cpu=0, pat_num=-1, pixelnum=15018) at worker.c:491 |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.18 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.20 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.23 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.25 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.28 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.30 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.33 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.35 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.38 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.40 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.43 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.46 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.48 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.51 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.53 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.56 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:38.58 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.01 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.03 | clock_ | ---Type <return> to continue, or q <return> to quit--- |
| 21:39.06 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.08 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.11 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.13 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.16 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.55 | clock_ | I crashed at moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.5 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | -r--r--r-- 1 clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:37 moss.pix.5 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.4 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | -r--r--r-- 1 clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:36 moss.pix.4 |
| 21:40.04 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.07 | clock_ | -rw-r--r-- 1 clock users 44400 Jan 5 22:37 moss.pix.6 |
| 21:40.28 | clock_ | The path is an almost-circular path around the object |
| 21:42.46 | brlcad | clock_: what version is that? |
| 21:53.55 | brlcad | nothing obvious in that particular stack, though the line doesn't match anything sensible in my version |
| 21:54.10 | brlcad | s/stack/frame/ |
| 21:55.02 | clock_ | BRL-CAD Release 7.8.2 |
| 21:55.45 | brlcad | okay, that's better |
| 21:56.00 | clock_ | Should I reinstall to 7.8.4? |
| 21:56.25 | brlcad | no no |
| 21:56.42 | brlcad | it's acting like you had a partial render, given the code it's in |
| 21:56.44 | clock_ | Solid modelling for strong defense haha :) |
| 21:56.56 | clock_ | Should I delete the pixfiles and try again? |
| 21:57.01 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:57.40 | clock_ | clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ./moss.rt -s 200 |
| 21:57.40 | clock_ | ./moss.rt: line 1: 13777 Segmentation fault (core dumped) rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim |
| 21:57.43 | clock_ | Anyway |
| 21:57.58 | brlcad | same frame? |
| 21:58.02 | clock_ | This time it created only moss.pix and moss.pix.1 |
| 21:58.14 | clock_ | -r--r--r-- 1 clock users 120000 Jan 5 22:57 moss.pix |
| 21:58.14 | clock_ | -rw-r--r-- 1 clock users 44400 Jan 5 22:57 moss.pix.1 |
| 21:58.22 | clock_ | Seems to produce a runt file of the same size |
| 21:58.38 | clock_ | Maybe when I run it many times I get a complete animation with ocassional bad pixels :) |
| 21:59.16 | brlcad | curious, you have an smp machine? |
| 21:59.21 | clock_ | no |
| 21:59.29 | clock_ | Pentium M 1.5GHz notebook |
| 22:00.18 | brlcad | delete the pix files again and add the -B flag to rt ... run it twice if it crashes and see if it crashes on the same image frame both times |
| 22:00.51 | clock_ | I'm going to sleep now |
| 22:00.53 | clock_ | good night |
| 22:01.42 | brlcad | hrm k |
| 22:01.56 | brlcad | if you can get a chance, I'd be interested in getting those files to test here |
| 22:03.03 | clock_ | yes I can send them |
| 22:03.42 | b0ef | nearly got a heart stop when I saw NURBS on the commit list;) |
| 22:04.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:04.41 | b0ef | you working on exposing the NURBS interface in brlcad? |
| 22:07.47 | b0ef | for manipulating NURBS.. |
| 22:11.05 | brlcad | b0ef: couple different efforts |
| 22:11.32 | brlcad | one being just to simply improve the geometry engine's nurbs support |
| 22:11.47 | brlcad | the existing isn't exposed because it has "issues" |
| 22:12.06 | brlcad | so fixing/improving it is the first step |
| 22:12.54 | brlcad | that also then in turn supports geometry conversion, which is what is driving this particular effort -- being able to seamlessly bring in models from pro/e, unigraphics, rhino, etc without doing a tessellation |
| 22:13.25 | brlcad | also fundamentally needed by the step converter, which will likely be the second major effort |
| 22:14.11 | b0ef | just wondering; is the reverse also be part of that same effort? (mesh to NURBS) |
| 22:14.18 | brlcad | THEN on to the modeling interface facilities (which could happen in parallel with the step converter work, but that depends on involvement from others) |
| 22:14.54 | brlcad | yikes, generate a smoothed nurbs surface off of some mesh? |
| 22:15.12 | b0ef | well, a NURBS surface doesn't have to be smooth |
| 22:15.17 | b0ef | it can be anything;) |
| 22:15.18 | brlcad | true |
| 22:15.22 | b0ef | that's the beauty of it;) |
| 22:15.23 | dtidrow_work | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/420mph_cavalier/ - wonder where he hid the JATO bottles ;-) |
| 22:15.24 | brlcad | but then what'd be the point? |
| 22:16.00 | b0ef | well, when using existing models; having the capability to turn them into parametric surfaces is very handy |
| 22:16.01 | Maloeran | Tsk, the "beauty" of NURBS are a pain to raytrace efficiently :) |
| 22:16.19 | Maloeran | are->is |
| 22:16.39 | b0ef | NURBS should be even more easy than a mesh, from my understanding |
| 22:16.58 | b0ef | well, yeah, efficiently is another thing, I guess |
| 22:17.10 | brlcad | b0ef: ah, you mean from a modelling perspective, for deformations, etc |
| 22:17.21 | b0ef | brlcad: yeah |
| 22:18.04 | brlcad | i'll keep it in mind, but that's kind of obscure .. we don't have direct mesh or nurbs editing now, so talking about converting from one or the other without the editing is a bit premature ;) |
| 22:18.12 | b0ef | well, the thing I'm after doesn't even require the non uniform and rational part, really |
| 22:18.32 | b0ef | at first;) |
| 22:19.05 | b0ef | of course, trimming and such in the future would require that |
| 22:19.10 | brlcad | doing a straight up conversion would be a pretty simple tool for someone to write -- but you still wouldn't have the editing capacity yet ;) |
| 22:19.41 | b0ef | I'm on my way to learn the mathematics, but some years are expected, so I can't help, yet;) |
| 22:20.30 | brlcad | you're welcome to jump into the code as part of your learning ;) |
| 22:20.37 | b0ef | anyways, I've found offset tool in inkscape |
| 22:21.11 | b0ef | yeah, I am pursuing this, but I'm just taking linear algebra at the time |
| 22:21.36 | b0ef | ..so I've made my surfaces in inkscape |
| 22:22.08 | b0ef | the problem now is stitching them together |
| 22:22.51 | b0ef | well, make them compatible |
| 22:23.03 | b0ef | make one surface out of them all |
| 22:24.59 | b0ef | I also found out I need to look at projection |
| 22:25.48 | b0ef | damn, NURBS are sexy;) |
| 22:32.36 | brlcad | ever used rhino? |
| 22:32.39 | brlcad | er, rhino3d |
| 22:32.52 | b0ef | no |
| 22:33.01 | brlcad | they are pretty much the kings of nurbs modeling |
| 22:33.12 | b0ef | yeah, know, but I don't use proprietary software |
| 22:34.18 | b0ef | ;) |
| 22:36.13 | brlcad | b0ef: i only mentioned as a lead for perspective -- their nurbs modeling interface is pretty darn sexy, the standard most of the industry has used to live up to |
| 22:36.38 | b0ef | brlcad: yeah, believe me, I know about it;) |
| 22:36.47 | brlcad | some pretty tricky math behind what they have working on the user interfae side |
| 22:36.52 | b0ef | I've skimmed the surface of the earth for NURBS;) |
| 22:37.27 | brlcad | ah, so you've *heard* of rhino.. just not used it |
| 22:37.58 | b0ef | yeah, read on it |
| 22:38.57 | b0ef | I used maya, before I went fanatic, though |
| 22:39.33 | Maloeran | Are you mostly a modeller, b0ef, or a programmer as well? |
| 22:40.03 | b0ef | well, I'm mostly a programmer, but have this childhood dream of recreating where I grew up |
| 22:40.18 | b0ef | s/where/the place where/ |
| 22:40.24 | Maloeran | :) Nice. |
| 22:40.41 | b0ef | ;), yeah, been working on it for many many years |
| 22:41.04 | b0ef | off and on, of course |
| 22:41.15 | brlcad | did you happen to grow up in the Cornell box? |
| 22:41.28 | brlcad | or inside a tank |
| 22:41.35 | brlcad | if so, I might be able to heelp |
| 22:42.04 | b0ef | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B8nestoppen |
| 22:42.29 | b0ef | ;) |
| 22:43.41 | b0ef | indeed |
| 22:44.04 | brlcad | hmm, let's see .. there's a procedural vegetation generator in brl-cad, grass and cloud shaders, texture and wood shaders.. terrain .. that'll get you most of that picture ;) |
| 22:44.24 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.172) | |
| 22:44.26 | b0ef | I have actually modeled the whole place |
| 22:44.41 | b0ef | many times, actually |
| 22:44.43 | Maloeran | Where's the procedural vegetation generator? I thought Justin had used some weird Blender plugin |
| 22:44.53 | brlcad | Maloeran: he had, but there's one in there too |
| 22:44.54 | Maloeran | Which was very broken for me, as all Blender plugins I tried |
| 22:44.58 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 22:46.33 | b0ef | here are the current svg surfaces: |
| 22:46.39 | b0ef | http://www.esben-stien.name/scoutinkscape-0.0.9.svg |
| 22:46.44 | b0ef | well, nearly the current |
| 22:47.18 | b0ef | hmm, only some parts of it show up in my browser, but inkscape should show it right |
| 22:47.44 | b0ef | I have modeled it many times, but I need a parametric model of it |
| 22:48.33 | Maloeran | May I ask why you need it made of NURBS specifically? |
| 22:48.47 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's nothing fancy -- it was a quick 1-week effort to procedurally create random trees and bushes quickly .. end result was pretty decent actually, but there are a ton of parameters to feed (branching rates, branch min/maxes, radii, tapering rates, etc) |
| 22:48.57 | brlcad | maybe 2 weeks, i forget |
| 22:49.36 | b0ef | Maloeran: well, it doesn't work to work with surfaces and curves in mesh modeling for something like this |
| 22:49.42 | brlcad | still, it has some nice aspects like no self-intersections, branches grow towards light visibility, etc |
| 22:50.29 | Maloeran | Sounds good, brlcad, I had pondered about writing something like that |
| 22:50.57 | Maloeran | Where is it in the source? |
| 22:51.00 | brlcad | src/proc-db if you want to poke -- it's in there somewhere, vegitation iirc |
| 22:51.08 | Maloeran | Thanks. |
| 22:52.12 | b0ef | I have very little interest in shaders and such, really; I just want to model it and synthesise the textures |
| 22:52.35 | b0ef | I'm looking into fluxus to synthesise textures |
| 22:52.55 | Maloeran | Shaders? As long as it's raytraced, you should just need material properties and launch the process |
| 22:53.48 | b0ef | yeah, but I don't want to use bitmaps |
| 22:53.56 | b0ef | as in, static textures |
| 22:54.24 | b0ef | well, that's a long way from now, anyways |
| 23:47.11 | ``Erik | boner-stoppin'? |
| 03:35.47 | Maloeran | Ahah, I ordered nice indian food so many times from some place that they send me bonus dishes |
| 04:07.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: gcc 4 at least uses __GNU_C__, encourage ON_COMPILER_GNU to get defined |
| 04:16.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: check for ON_COMPILER_GNU instead of _GNU_SOURCE so we don't need to add configure checks for finite() |
| 04:23.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: initial automake build file template for openNURBS that correctly generates the libopenNURBS library |
| 06:47.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 06:47.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add openNURBS to the configuration and build. this adds |
| 06:47.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: --enable-opennurbs-build as well as a variety of aliases, while properly |
| 06:47.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: checking to see if openNURBS is already installed on the system or not so that |
| 06:47.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: auto as default will work. |
| 06:48.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: check whether openNURBS has been enabled or not in order to compile/traverse |
| 08:35.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: be less harsh about this being a debug build -- just say debug symbols are available and leave it at that |
| 09:36.58 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:37.18 | clock_ | Do you need any more information apart from what I posted about the segfault to the bug tracking database? |
| 10:13.51 | brlcad | clock_: no, that was perfect -- thanks |
| 10:13.53 | brlcad | quite detailed |
| 10:21.29 | clock_ | pixelnum=39999, pindex=119997 |
| 10:21.29 | clock_ | nonif |
| 10:21.29 | clock_ | Allocating pixmap to 120000 bytes. |
| 10:21.29 | clock_ | pixelnum=0, pindex=0 |
| 10:21.29 | clock_ | ./moss.rt: line 1: 22600 Segmentation fault (core dumped) /home/clock/brlcad-7.8.4/src/rt/rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim |
| 10:21.36 | clock_ | Now I am puzzling myself why it's crashing |
| 10:22.24 | clock_ | what timezone are you in? |
| 10:36.07 | brlcad | eastern u.s. |
| 10:36.25 | brlcad | yeah, it's late/early :) |
| 11:07.10 | clock_ | eastern us that's GMT-how much? |
| 11:07.42 | clock_ | An array of 120,000 bytes is allocated and not freed. Subsequent touch at the zeroth array element invokes a segfault |
| 11:08.14 | clock_ | The first frame goes through seemingly completely. |
| 11:08.36 | clock_ | Then the array is freed, allocated again to the same size, resulting in the same pointer, and a touch at the very zeroth pixel bombs the program |
| 11:09.07 | clock_ | The same on Gentoo Linux gcc 3.3.6: |
| 11:09.11 | clock_ | clock@server ~/crash $ ./moss.rt -s 200 |
| 11:09.11 | clock_ | *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0809b430 *** |
| 11:09.11 | clock_ | ./moss.rt: line 1: 3383 Aborted /home/clock/brlcad-7.8.4/src/rt/rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim |
| 11:14.49 | clock_ | Do you link BRL-CAD with libefence and try it? |
| 11:51.20 | clock_ | I found the bug |
| 11:51.28 | clock_ | free(pixmap) must be followed by pixmap=0. |
| 11:51.51 | clock_ | It was accessing a freed buffer. |
| 11:55.58 | clock_ | Now it creates all 53 frames :) |
| 15:54.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/rt/do.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:54.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: awesome.. not only did karel (aka clock3) identify and report on an animation |
| 15:54.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: bug in rt with extensive detail, he went on to trace down the problem and |
| 15:54.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: actually identified the bug. a variable that keeps track of frame progress was |
| 15:54.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: not being reset to null after a frame was completed causing subsequent frames to |
| 15:54.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: dereference an invalid pointer and segfault. apply the fix from sf bug 1629285 |
| 15:54.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: (persistent segfaults during animation - with a fix). this affected all |
| 15:55.35 | clock_ | lol :) |
| 16:33.02 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 16:34.22 | clock_ | brlcad: I was filling in a nice detailed bureaucratic patch entry to brl-cad.org but I wanted to verify with a Firefox that the C file I posted is accessible and it told me to select a viewer for a C file (!) so after about 30 seconds of crunching on /usr/local/bin I selected view. Subsequently the X hanged (because Firefox ran the view on the console). |
| 16:34.30 | clock_ | So I lost my nicely detailed bureaucratical entry |
| 16:34.54 | clock_ | So please add pix-y4v into BRL-CAD from http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/pix-y4m.c |
| 16:35.02 | clock_ | I just wrote it and it's handy for making videos. |
| 16:35.11 | clock_ | pix-y4v -> pix-y4m |
| 16:52.39 | *** join/#brlcad _jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) | |
| 17:03.19 | *** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) | |
| 18:29.10 | *** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-98-172.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
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| 19:46.19 | clock_ | brlcad: here? |
| 03:05.29 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 13:38.14 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 14:36.06 | clock_ | brlcad: you might be interested in my autogenerated BRL-CAD videos |
| 14:41.10 | brlcad | clock_: howdy |
| 14:41.13 | brlcad | i probably would |
| 14:42.09 | clock_ | There was a problem with pixhalve that it is usable only with gamma=1 |
| 14:42.17 | clock_ | but gamma=1 degrades the pixel depth so it's unusable |
| 14:42.31 | clock_ | gamma=2.2 is correct for rendering video, but without pixhalve the videos are jagged |
| 14:42.57 | clock_ | So I wrote my own tool that supports arbitrary spatial resampling (up/down), and temporary downsampling given by an integer |
| 14:43.05 | clock_ | and outputs into YUV4MPEG2 and PPM stream |
| 14:43.43 | clock_ | I put it into my Ronja makefiles so now I get a 576x576x50Hz video with a sound loop background (7.2 sec) and an animated gif @10Hz which is temporary subsampled |
| 14:43.44 | brlcad | your pix-y4m tool? |
| 14:43.57 | clock_ | everything is calculated correctly, gamma correctly handled, calculations done in 16 bits |
| 14:44.03 | clock_ | yes it's an upgrade of the pix-y4m |
| 14:44.11 | clock_ | I took the resampler from Links :) |
| 14:44.43 | clock_ | it generates Ogg Theora, DivX and WMV |
| 14:44.47 | clock_ | and also bzipped YUV4MPEG2 |
| 14:44.51 | clock_ | and an animated GIF |
| 14:45.05 | brlcad | that tool would make a nice addition, though there are a few hopefully minor changes/additions that would be needed and one other somewhat signficant change |
| 14:45.35 | brlcad | generates ogg/divx/wmv manually? or links to eternal libs? |
| 14:45.53 | clock_ | from the YUV4MPEG2 it's generated by transcode and libtheora encoder example |
| 14:46.04 | clock_ | the pix-y4m produces YUV4MPEG2 |
| 14:46.09 | brlcad | ah |
| 14:46.24 | brlcad | i was going to say.. damn |
| 14:47.23 | clock_ | See http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ at the bottom - tetrax |
| 14:48.30 | brlcad | that's freaking awesome :) |
| 14:49.02 | clock_ | Now I just add names like "holder" or "tetrax" into one place of my makefiles and add couple of hours and I can get other videos :) |
| 14:49.05 | clock_ | thanks |
| 14:49.18 | brlcad | at least on the ogg :) |
| 14:49.34 | clock_ | that's not porno music that's CC-BY-SA Xcyril: Hip Hop |
| 14:49.42 | brlcad | uh huh ;) |
| 14:49.55 | clock_ | can you play in a loop? |
| 14:50.36 | clock_ | I could replace the loop with amiga-style chiptune from the Supertux game |
| 14:50.46 | clock_ | it has a period of 7 seconds that's very close to 7.2 |
| 14:51.12 | brlcad | yeah, I can loop it in quicktime |
| 14:51.21 | clock_ | does it loop seamlessly? |
| 14:51.48 | brlcad | the animation is seamless |
| 14:52.03 | brlcad | the audio on theora is a little disjoint |
| 14:52.54 | clock_ | and divx and wmv? |
| 14:54.36 | brlcad | ahh, somehow i missed the audio on the divx .. it's identical |
| 14:54.49 | clock_ | is there a notch in the audio? |
| 14:55.15 | brlcad | it's not so much a notch as just a nit-pick on the blend |
| 14:55.30 | clock_ | maybe the driver has to flush the audio buffer or so |
| 14:55.40 | clock_ | I calculated the length in audacity exactly to 7.2 sec |
| 14:55.48 | clock_ | When I blend the audios in audacity, it's perfectly seamless |
| 14:55.55 | clock_ | so it must be the encoding process or your player |
| 14:56.12 | clock_ | my player (mplayer, vlc) produces absolutely horrible stutter at the seam |
| 14:56.17 | brlcad | or different expectations |
| 14:56.21 | brlcad | it does loop nicely |
| 14:58.03 | brlcad | but going from the fluttering at the end to the beat at the start just isn't what I'd personally call "seamless" |
| 14:58.37 | brlcad | it could very well be what you intended -- you'd have to hear it for yourself :) |
| 14:59.17 | clock_ | it's like this in the original music |
| 14:59.51 | clock_ | xcyril: hip hop you can download for free on jamendo |
| 15:02.56 | clock_ | Now Ronja compiles several hours :) |
| 15:03.16 | clock_ | But still I consider the raytracer to be fast - when it calculates all the shadows etc. |
| 15:04.43 | brlcad | how many fps are you rendering? |
| 15:04.50 | brlcad | for the animation |
| 15:05.18 | clock_ | 0.3fps |
| 15:05.23 | clock_ | 1152x1152 |
| 15:05.32 | clock_ | depends on scene comoplexity too |
| 16:09.25 | clock_ | Why does material=0 cause ridiculously high mass like 10^289kg? |
| 16:11.05 | brlcad | probably getting a division by zero because there's no density set |
| 16:11.18 | brlcad | s/zero/near zero/ of course |
| 16:11.48 | brlcad | or there's an indexing issue there -- supposed to index from 1 up |
| 16:13.03 | clock_ | Maybe it's a bug? |
| 16:13.38 | clock_ | If I set the density in the density file to 0 (material=256, density 0) then it calculates correctly |
| 16:13.45 | clock_ | Can I put a line with 0 into the density file? |
| 16:14.10 | brlcad | i'm frankly not sure that's been tried |
| 16:14.16 | brlcad | again, not the design :) |
| 16:14.21 | brlcad | but go ahead and try .. |
| 16:14.40 | clock_ | Why is it called "GIFT_MATERIAL"? |
| 16:14.58 | brlcad | that's ancient heritage |
| 16:15.34 | brlcad | gift material codes are what the DoD uses/used to define material properties |
| 16:15.47 | clock_ | So it's retro |
| 16:16.38 | brlcad | GIFT was the "Geometric Information from Targets" |
| 16:16.57 | brlcad | basically the precursor to 'rt' in a way |
| 16:17.42 | brlcad | evolved from the magi ray-tracer iirc |
| 16:19.05 | brlcad | ahh, here we go.. |
| 16:19.20 | brlcad | a 1987 paper on the topic: http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/86scotland/joined.html |
| 16:21.00 | clock_ | Yes it calculates correctly even with index 0 |
| 16:24.08 | brlcad | good to know |
| 16:37.37 | clock_ | whast is REGION_CODE? Can it be all 1000 for all parts? |
| 16:38.06 | clock_ | no sorry REGION_ID |
| 16:47.43 | clock_ | Now the 0'th index doesn't work |
| 16:49.04 | clock_ | printf("%s",NULL) isn't something a program should do: |
| 16:49.08 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.09 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.11 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:49.14 | clock_ | 11142320660329766197282404428822493103453219925682332085413596211029096794472640917136021704128167472701500262605140476594536144399399667268753079654421883418581083831198838033283297124246427098575741106021024097346550934083463016754241736963503981200105259980151084013000927862654594585192530136845516800.000 0 100 (null) 0.0000 /chimney/chimney.r |
| 16:53.40 | clock_ | When it worked it was caused by chance |
| 16:54.08 | ``Erik | hum |
| 17:20.36 | clock_ | the rtweight produces random numbers even when I use 256 for the part that doesn't count |
| 17:21.39 | clock_ | It produces random numbers even when I make the numbers in the .density file continuous |
| 17:21.50 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.50 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.53 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:21.55 | clock_ | 5471996131684330201384988641922329570258652293616177422983661606387605959185699572608651675799621548161907052971545040885199431982865401592260667493913974039383458518276186681799389570084070369563361732356774012177516296118005292214198201381758086484754586844743669147989428832905491120128.000 6 100 Doesnt_count 0.0000 /chimney/chimney.r |
| 17:22.00 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.03 | clock_ | Sometimes it happens, sometimes not |
| 17:22.05 | clock_ | run from run |
| 17:23.08 | clock_ | The problem seems to be the 0 weight of the material |
| 17:23.14 | clock_ | when I replace with 0.00000001 it's OK |
| 17:24.02 | clock_ | Where is the source for rtweight? |
| 17:24.32 | clock_ | There is only rtweight_vers.c and it's almost empty |
| 17:27.04 | clock_ | if (density<0) something else if (density>0) something else |
| 17:27.55 | clock_ | OK let's try to recompile and make some spaghetti |
| 17:34.04 | brlcad | source is in src/rt/view_weight.c |
| 17:34.10 | clock_ | now it seems to work |
| 17:34.33 | brlcad | a density of 0 would be invalid |
| 17:34.43 | clock_ | Invalid is <0 |
| 17:34.53 | clock_ | <0 prints a message "no density specified" |
| 17:34.56 | clock_ | >0 calculates the density |
| 17:34.59 | clock_ | 0 throws dice |
| 17:35.06 | clock_ | And I need density of 0. |
| 17:35.45 | brlcad | a density of zero would be a pure vaccuum in space |
| 17:36.05 | brlcad | even air has a non-zero density |
| 17:36.08 | clock_ | or an object whose weight is not to be taken into account |
| 17:36.52 | clock_ | Do you want to keep the current throw-dice-at-zero behaviour? |
| 17:37.05 | brlcad | well, of course not -- that's just bad behavior |
| 17:37.22 | clock_ | At least you are not like the Linux kernel or Ekiga developers |
| 17:37.29 | clock_ | who are always right no matter how crappy it behaves |
| 17:38.22 | brlcad | nah, i'm not defending it -- from a design standpoint it is behaving as garbage-in->garbage-out .. but it should still behave sensibly |
| 17:38.31 | clock_ | that's also why I am not wasting time with projects like that and poke at BRL-CAD instead |
| 17:38.58 | brlcad | and whether it should support zero is another question -- i can see a use there, so good to mod to support it |
| 17:38.59 | clock_ | Negative is good too |
| 17:39.05 | clock_ | if you model a body submerged in water |
| 17:39.34 | brlcad | hmm, interesting |
| 17:39.54 | clock_ | just subtract the density of water |
| 17:40.03 | brlcad | though the density of the object itself wouldn't be changed |
| 17:40.17 | brlcad | that might be better managed at a higher level where you can do the physics better |
| 17:40.27 | clock_ | this does the physics perfectly |
| 17:40.50 | brlcad | which is probably where you could also deal with objects whose weight you didn't want to take into account too |
| 17:41.12 | clock_ | That would make the makefiles too complicated |
| 17:41.19 | brlcad | it just does a simple density/mass calculation for you ;) |
| 17:41.23 | clock_ | and now it works even when the zero entry is at index 0 ;-) |
| 17:42.15 | clock_ | Are you going to include pix-y4m? |
| 17:42.42 | brlcad | i'd like to, but there are a few things that would need to be addressed |
| 17:43.20 | clock_ | And you would like me to re-program it? |
| 17:43.57 | brlcad | no no, the code does what it does and is useful |
| 17:44.08 | brlcad | the things to be addressed are more inclusion issues |
| 17:44.23 | brlcad | docs, integration |
| 17:44.48 | brlcad | aside from a manpage would be nice, presently contributions request assignment of copyright to be included |
| 17:46.04 | brlcad | you can still retain authorship, and get full credit for the work -- but for licensing purposes, there's only one copyright for the non-public-domain portions |
| 17:47.08 | brlcad | this makes it easier to relicense the code as needed down the road, since you don't have to hunt down every contributor (and understandably, some don't like that, but presently it's the project position) |
| 17:48.34 | brlcad | it's particularly relevant for what you wrote even as there are design plans to turn the image processing tools into a "universal converter" library |
| 17:49.26 | brlcad | in support of that kind of design change, all of BRL-CAD's GPL code (which is presently all the front-end applications) is going to change to LGPL |
| 17:53.27 | clock_ | In Czech Republic there is nothing like copyright therefore it's not possible to assign it |
| 17:53.39 | clock_ | There is only authorship and that's given by definition and cannot be changed |
| 17:53.45 | clock_ | How it's in Switzerland I don't know |
| 17:54.47 | brlcad | if there's nothing like copyright, then why does the code have a copyright clause? |
| 17:55.16 | brlcad | most licenses are based in copyright law, especially GPL/LGPL/BSD, etc -- even internationally |
| 17:55.45 | clock_ | I write (c) <year> <author> everywhere - this is the copyright clause? |
| 17:56.01 | brlcad | also, this isn't anything new -- there are lots of major international projects that require copyright assignment |
| 17:56.08 | brlcad | yes, that is exactly what the (c) means |
| 17:56.23 | clock_ | I didn't know this means anything special legally |
| 17:56.38 | clock_ | In CZ it definitely doesn't mean anything it's just a text string without any legal meaning |
| 17:56.58 | clock_ | I saw it being used so I did the same by example ;-) |
| 17:57.28 | brlcad | I'm sure cz actually does have some form of copyright protection |
| 17:57.36 | clock_ | It has author right |
| 17:57.47 | clock_ | if you create something, a right is implicitly created |
| 17:58.29 | brlcad | same holds in most places |
| 17:58.42 | clock_ | but that right is not transferrable |
| 17:58.47 | clock_ | you can only give licence to use |
| 17:59.10 | clock_ | and that right is created by the act of creation itself you don't have to write any (c) anywhere |
| 17:59.26 | clock_ | if you write (c), it's like if you didn't write anything - you have the right regardless |
| 18:00.14 | brlcad | it's the same in most places, even in the U.S., you don't *have* to write (c) -- it's automatic -- but the legal basis is weaker if you actually have to defend something in a court |
| 18:01.08 | brlcad | regardless, i'm not going to believe that czech doesn't have a means to allow copyright assignment, though, without a solid reference |
| 18:01.12 | brlcad | not that it's relevant for this |
| 18:01.40 | clock_ | all you can do is give a non-exclusive licence or an exclusive licence |
| 18:01.45 | clock_ | including a licence to sublicence |
| 18:02.03 | clock_ | but you cannot get rid of that copyright (in Czech terms it's called Author's right) |
| 18:02.18 | brlcad | again, i doubt that, highly doubt that as business interactions generally require authorship transfer |
| 18:02.37 | brlcad | unless you have a link to share that shows otherwise |
| 18:03.26 | clock_ | My GPL code is taken from Links and it's tainted by Mikulas's code |
| 18:03.33 | clock_ | the overalloc() is written by Mikulas |
| 18:03.40 | clock_ | so now it already involves two people ;-) |
| 18:03.59 | brlcad | i'm educating myself, hold on ;) |
| 18:04.00 | clock_ | I cannot change to LGPL by myself |
| 18:06.24 | brlcad | looks like Article 26(1) of cz copyright will let you grant all rights use with unrestricted scope -- that would be sufficient for a purpose like this |
| 18:06.38 | brlcad | though like you said, you've already got joint authorship going so you can't change it regardless |
| 18:06.53 | clock_ | I wouldn't grant anyway |
| 18:07.12 | brlcad | which means it really can't be included then unfortunately, unless you changed to LGPL or BSD |
| 18:07.13 | clock_ | unrestricted scope? That's ridiculous |
| 18:07.34 | clock_ | what if I change to BSD but don't grant unrestricted scope? |
| 18:07.44 | clock_ | BSD still has some (minimal) restrictions |
| 18:07.55 | brlcad | the domain of the scope is still just that contribution ;) |
| 18:08.07 | brlcad | not sure what you think it means |
| 18:08.19 | clock_ | but then you could take my contribution and sell it to Microsoft ;-) |
| 18:08.58 | clock_ | Or you can include one program under GPL ;-) |
| 18:09.03 | brlcad | technically, that's what copyright assignment means too -- changes are provided in good faith that the copyright holder wouldn't ever do that |
| 18:09.18 | clock_ | Or make a public version that will include the GPL program and your contractors will get only the LGPL |
| 18:09.45 | brlcad | contractors? |
| 18:13.12 | clock_ | "this makes it easier to relicence the code" |
| 18:13.40 | brlcad | here's a rather public project that you might be familiar with that has a decent write-up on the issues |
| 18:13.44 | brlcad | http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/copyright/index.xml |
| 18:14.02 | brlcad | pretty much the same concerns and motivations here |
| 18:14.06 | clock_ | Why do you want me to licence under LGPL? |
| 18:14.38 | brlcad | well in particular because the code would be likely made part of a LGPL library if it is included |
| 18:15.03 | clock_ | Is the whole BRL-CAD going to switch to LGPL? |
| 18:15.12 | brlcad | very soon |
| 18:15.20 | brlcad | the portions that are GPL, that is |
| 18:15.34 | clock_ | what licence are the other portions? |
| 18:16.14 | brlcad | the build infrastructure, benchmark suite, various scripts, and a few contributed tools are BSD licensed |
| 18:16.39 | clock_ | Why are you switching to LGPL? |
| 18:16.43 | brlcad | the documentation that isn't already public domain is dual-licensed GPL/GFDL (you choose) |
| 18:17.20 | brlcad | brl-cad's libraries have to remain lgpl or bsd because of the user base |
| 18:17.31 | clock_ | What does it mean because of the user base? |
| 18:18.06 | clock_ | I hate this free software / open source politics ;-) |
| 18:18.09 | brlcad | there are government, educational, and commercial entities that use brl-cad for various purposes, linking to brl-cad's geometry engine and ray-trace library for functionality |
| 18:18.25 | brlcad | in codes that cannot be made open source, but are distributed |
| 18:18.30 | clock_ | Do they use them in proprietary software? |
| 18:18.49 | brlcad | some do, yes |
| 18:19.23 | brlcad | some are classified codes with security implications (and not just U.S., several nations) |
| 18:19.38 | clock_ | Why should I allow proprietary software to link my code? |
| 18:19.45 | brlcad | you don't have to |
| 18:19.48 | brlcad | that's your right |
| 18:19.54 | clock_ | with LGPL or BSD you allow |
| 18:20.03 | brlcad | but to be included in brl-cad, it would be required |
| 18:20.54 | brlcad | lgpl and bsd let the closed codes utilize the functionality they require, and provide a mutual benefit by promoting the software, giving credit of use, being part of the user base, etc |
| 18:21.36 | brlcad | we don't exist to push a political software agenda, my main concern is the open flexibility and usability of brl-cad by anyone |
| 18:22.24 | clock_ | classified codes and security implications |
| 18:22.41 | clock_ | I can't see their codes, they won't be able to use my software ;-) |
| 18:23.13 | brlcad | as you currently have it licensed, for a distributed code, that's true |
| 18:23.27 | brlcad | if it's not distributed, even gpl doesn't prevent them from using your code, though |
| 18:23.30 | clock_ | why do they need to classify anything? Good nations don't have anything to hide ;-) |
| 18:23.56 | clock_ | that's right |
| 18:24.31 | clock_ | but what they cannot do is that Army Subcontractor X makes an add-on nuke-calculating package and then sells it to US Army under classified code blah blah |
| 18:25.14 | clock_ | and then US Army calculates up better nukes and will make grins at other nations who can't calculate their nukes so well |
| 18:25.17 | brlcad | just about every subcontractor is explicitly required to assign copyright to the government, as well as all rights |
| 18:25.32 | clock_ | When they are going to calculate nukes with my code, then at least everyone will have the same opportunity |
| 18:26.01 | brlcad | actually, wouldn't they just be making pretty animations of the nukes with your code? |
| 18:26.22 | clock_ | whatever, but it will help them save time ;-) |
| 18:26.31 | clock_ | today the nukes aren't relevant anymore |
| 18:26.39 | clock_ | they have been technically overcome by terrorism |
| 18:27.06 | brlcad | there are biothreats considerably more dangerous than nukes |
| 18:27.59 | clock_ | like old salad sauces? |
| 18:28.18 | brlcad | but I digress .. so back to the point, if you do happen to relicense the code to bsd or lgpl, it can be reconsidered .. but it sounds like a non-starter on both sides for now |
| 18:28.44 | clock_ | I don't really like the idea of relicensing the code |
| 18:28.53 | brlcad | i understand, that's fine |
| 18:30.18 | clock_ | Is it legally possible to distribute almost all files in BRL-CAD with LGPL and one source code under GPL, while the source code and the rest don't mutually link? |
| 18:30.19 | brlcad | could add it as one of our "contributed" codes, but then you'd need a build file, documentation, a pressing demand, and other tidbits to be included |
| 18:30.33 | clock_ | what is the pressing demand? |
| 18:31.09 | brlcad | I looked into that a while back, from my reading -- you can't incorporate gpl code into a lgpl library without it becoming a gpl library |
| 18:31.24 | clock_ | but my code is standalone it doesn't require any library |
| 18:31.51 | brlcad | what I said earlier |
| 18:32.05 | clock_ | do you want to put my code into a library? |
| 18:32.29 | brlcad | there's going to be a "universal" image converter library made out of ost of the image processing tools |
| 18:32.43 | brlcad | so you can have an api to go to/from any image format to another |
| 18:32.59 | brlcad | similar to magick's convert tool, though we could also expand into geometry too |
| 18:33.29 | brlcad | aside from just having it as a generic conversion library in itself for reading/writing dozens of formats |
| 18:33.46 | brlcad | so yeah -- if it was included, I'd want to make it part of that library |
| 18:34.00 | clock_ | but that's in long-termm isn't it? |
| 18:34.01 | brlcad | wouldn't make sense to leave it out (other than the legal problem) |
| 18:34.13 | clock_ | and my code is not much universal |
| 18:34.53 | brlcad | your code doesn't have to be, that's the beauty of the library |
| 18:36.08 | brlcad | e.g. there's a png-pix and a pix-y4m but obviously not a png-y4m, the library would give you that functionality by tying them together for you |
| 18:37.49 | brlcad | anyways, going to LGPL is only one aspect.. like http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/copyright/index.xml mentions, there are other legal issues like defending the code in court against litigation, to be able to protect against misuse and go after violations of the copyright |
| 18:38.10 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.10 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:38.26 | clock_ | Can you find it in the viewweight.c this way or do I have to make a patch? |
| 18:38.37 | clock_ | the >= was originally only > and that was the problem |
| 18:40.31 | clock_ | Hehe with LGPL my code could be incorporated into a proprietary package and that sold to North Korea :) |
| 18:41.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: allow an index of 0, even if the density is going to be 0 so that objects can be treated as having no mass (thx clock) |
| 18:42.02 | clock_ | good :) |
| 18:42.21 | brlcad | again, that's pushing a political agenda that you have there -- I couldn't care less about the political aspect :) |
| 18:43.08 | brlcad | i don't pick licenses for the politics, i pick them on it helping collaboration and allowing flexible use (by anyone for any reason) |
| 18:43.11 | clock_ | I publish my code not because I don't value my work, but because I agree with the idea of GPL. |
| 18:43.45 | brlcad | that's what it's there for, more power to you |
| 18:43.49 | clock_ | Otherwise I could give them into public domain easily. |
| 18:43.51 | brlcad | you don't happen to run debian do you? |
| 18:43.56 | clock_ | no |
| 18:43.59 | clock_ | OpenBSD ;-) |
| 18:44.25 | brlcad | surprising |
| 18:44.28 | brlcad | most BSD users aren't too fond of the GNU philosophy |
| 18:44.31 | clock_ | do I talk like a debianist? |
| 18:44.36 | brlcad | yep |
| 18:44.50 | brlcad | debian is a gnu propaganda machine :) |
| 18:44.55 | clock_ | lol :) |
| 18:45.01 | clock_ | According to my experience, debian is crap |
| 18:45.06 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:45.07 | clock_ | I didn't get farther than the boot CD :) |
| 18:45.37 | brlcad | ubuntu gets much of the same done without the bull-headed political motivations that debian has |
| 18:45.39 | clock_ | I used to use linux from scratch, gentoo, and recently (like 1 year?) OpenBSD |
| 18:45.41 | brlcad | and is considerably easier to use |
| 18:46.05 | clock_ | I don't care about the politics I care more about whether the system works |
| 18:46.17 | clock_ | Linux has half of the manpages missing, too hard to use for me |
| 18:46.24 | clock_ | 10 years of Linux was enough ;-) |
| 18:46.33 | brlcad | you care at least a little bit about the politics it sounds |
| 18:46.36 | brlcad | at least for your own code |
| 18:46.57 | clock_ | yes |
| 18:46.58 | brlcad | if you have a problem with proprietary software, you care about the politics |
| 18:47.07 | clock_ | I couldn't care less that I am using something that's BSD ;-) |
| 18:47.37 | clock_ | I don't like the idea of proprietary software, because people sacrifice efficiency of human work for monetary gain |
| 18:47.41 | brlcad | spent a LONG time weighing the impact of just making all of BRL-CAD licensed under BSD |
| 18:48.48 | brlcad | anyways, I gotta run off to lift |
| 18:48.53 | brlcad | cya |
| 18:49.01 | clock_ | What I can do is take BRL-CAD, add it to pix-y4m and then publish as Twibright Labs Enhanced BRL-CAD, am I right? |
| 18:49.22 | clock_ | cu |
| 18:51.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Karel points out a mod that allows material ID of zero in rtweight, fixes index bug. |
| 18:51.46 | brlcad | probably not, as there's a trademark on the name BRL-CAD -- but you could make the Twibright Labs CAD system (if it were BSD) |
| 18:52.36 | brlcad | it just wouldn't get you much -- about as fruitful as if you forked OpenBSD |
| 18:53.14 | brlcad | the project generally has to be doing something really wrong (e.g. XFree86 -> X11) to get a major code to fork successfully and rebrand with a maintained user group |
| 18:56.12 | brlcad | anyways, really off now -- cheers |
| 19:26.18 | clock_ | What does the LOS mean? |
| 19:26.24 | clock_ | When it's 0 and not 100 it doesn't work :) |
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| 00:55.16 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1276819.stm - Ahah, 110kUSD for a McDonald's hot pickle |
| 00:55.54 | Maloeran | This is so amusingly wrong, I feel like studying american laws just to understand how such a thing is possible |
| 01:56.37 | brlcad | they didn't win the case |
| 01:56.47 | brlcad | they just settled to make it go away |
| 01:57.12 | brlcad | you can file a lawsuit for just about anything against anybody pretty easily, some people make a living out of it |
| 02:18.51 | dtidrow | and yes, it's pretty disgusting that U.S. civil law allows such things to happen |
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| 21:04.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (.cvsignore src/librt/g_on_nurb.c include/on_nurb.h): Begin work on openNURBS-based primitive. OpenNURBS contains no intersection routines, so will be working off the Abert et al paper "Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces" to implement intersection. |
| 21:10.59 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-230-225.uchicago.edu) | |
| 21:12.02 | dli | howto rotate the view along the z-axis (of the real coordinates, not the view) |
| 21:15.01 | dli | how to move a part (translation)? |
| 21:31.54 | dli | I can use ae to rotate the view, still don't know how to move a part |
| 21:54.42 | IriX64 | ciao |
| 23:01.18 | dli | another question, how do I print out the 3D rendering? |
| 23:06.56 | tofu | mged doesn't directly deal with printing |
| 23:07.13 | tofu | you basically will need to convert to another format, such as png |
| 23:07.28 | tofu | there are command-line tools that facilitate this (e.g. pix-png) |
| 23:09.11 | dli | tofu, thanks |
| 23:09.27 | dli | tofu, how do I move a part ( .r .c ) ? |
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| 03:21.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/on_nurb.h src/librt/g_on_nurb.c): standard header and footer, M-x indent region |
| 03:21.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/Makefile.am src/librt/Makefile.am): add new opennurbs primitive files to the source distribution tarball. |
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| 08:40.19 | clock_ | I am trying to reverseengineer what the "rot" command does |
| 08:41.15 | clock_ | I already found out the three numbers refer to rotations around axes in a way that positive number rotates the object anticlockwise if you sit where the axes cross and look at the axis label letter. |
| 08:41.54 | clock_ | However I thought it's rotating around the axes themselves but then I tried it on an arb6 and it didn't rotate around the X axis, but around the side of the arb6. |
| 08:42.13 | clock_ | The arb6 was defined that the X axis was going through the middle, not throught the side. |
| 08:42.28 | clock_ | So it cannot rotate neither around the combination axis nor around the object axis |
| 08:42.35 | clock_ | What is it actually rotating around? |
| 08:43.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for emacs lisp files |
| 08:45.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add support for emacs lisp files |
| 08:50.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: |
| 08:50.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: change the indent script so that it requires a path/to/directory argument for |
| 08:50.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: some hierarchy for the script to update. additionally, add support for a |
| 08:50.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: plethora of other file types including c++, objc, shell script, and emacs lisp |
| 08:50.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: files. |
| 08:51.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/ (tcl.c tpkg.c): M-x indent-region |
| 08:53.23 | tofu | clock_: by deafult, through the local coordinate axis defined for that primitive, which for the arbs is one of the corners (turn on the model axis on the menu and it might become more clear) |
| 08:54.09 | tofu | even if you model with the global axis going through the middle, the local coordinate system for that primitive is unchanged (it can't change by definition) |
| 08:54.36 | tofu | you can also specify which coordinate system you mean via the settings menu (Rotate about option) |
| 08:55.57 | clock_ | What should I specify to rotate about the lines in the "Coordinates - model" cross? |
| 08:56.21 | clock_ | How can I make the model coordinates cross stay permanently even if I quit the program and restart again? |
| 08:57.58 | clock_ | I would like to change the help entry for "rot" to reflect all this information. If I do it will you accept the patch? I found out the help entry is identically in 2 files - src/tcscripts/helplib.tcl and src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl. Is one of them automatically generated from the other or do I have to change it in both? |
| 08:57.58 | tofu | they are permanent except for one (the view) -- there are just at least three different cooridinates that you might be rotating about (and there are different command-line commands for those too) |
| 08:58.11 | clock_ | They are not permanent - when I turn the coordinates on and then quit the program and restart, they are gone and I have to turn them on again. |
| 08:58.22 | tofu | oh, you mean their display |
| 08:58.34 | clock_ | Yes the cross with 3 crossing lines and letters X Y Z |
| 08:58.35 | tofu | because they're still *there* .. just not shown |
| 08:58.46 | clock_ | I want them to be shown permanently |
| 08:58.58 | clock_ | Is there something like "Save settings"? |
| 08:59.26 | tofu | yeah, you can enable that.. turn them on and then (assuming you haven't already customized your .mgedrc) you can select "Update/create .mgedrc" on the file menu and it should save that setting |
| 08:59.27 | clock_ | Because I need them to keep sense from the model and I often quit the program and edit again |
| 08:59.36 | clock_ | aha cool :) |
| 08:59.52 | clock_ | And then they will be visible for every .g file I edit? |
| 08:59.57 | tofu | should be |
| 09:00.01 | clock_ | cool |
| 09:00.21 | tofu | if not for whatever reason, it should just be a line to add to your .mgedrc |
| 09:01.03 | tofu | you may want to back up your .mgedrc if you have edited it manually before hitting the update |
| 09:01.22 | tofu | as it can blow away changes if they're in the wrong part of the file |
| 09:02.44 | clock_ | But I realized these axes can be turned separately for each of the four panes in the multipane |
| 09:02.53 | clock_ | But in the .mgedrc I found only one place |
| 09:02.59 | clock_ | How does that correspond together? |
| 09:03.14 | tofu | ah, you use multipane |
| 09:03.36 | tofu | there are different variables for the other panes.. which I can't remember off the top of my head |
| 09:03.42 | clock_ | And I want these axes to be in all 4 they are useful |
| 09:03.54 | clock_ | So I set them in all panes and then save |
| 09:03.55 | tofu | but you will probably have to add the other three by hand, or let it auto-enable all four |
| 09:04.32 | clock_ | I also asked a question about helplib.tcl etc. |
| 09:04.37 | tofu | i don't think bob ever added multipane storage |
| 09:04.37 | clock_ | Do you know the answer? |
| 09:04.55 | clock_ | What is auto-enable? |
| 09:04.58 | tofu | yeah, the patch would be accepted, of course -- assuming it actually makes sense :) |
| 09:05.03 | tofu | as for the two files |
| 09:05.17 | clock_ | What happens if I patch the two files differently? |
| 09:05.28 | tofu | they are identical, and have to both be updated separately unfortunately (one is used by mged, the other by archer) |
| 09:05.37 | clock_ | What is archer? |
| 09:06.01 | tofu | something you haven't seen yet and probably need not worry about yet either :) |
| 09:06.13 | clock_ | some old predecessor of mged? |
| 09:06.22 | tofu | but it's basically a rewrite of mged in progress with an improved user interface |
| 09:06.30 | tofu | postdecessor |
| 09:07.16 | tofu | it was only integrated a few iterations ago, and not even fully intergrated into the build yet (so there's only a Windows binary at the moment, and a few linux ones somewhere) |
| 09:07.31 | clock_ | Is it better than mged? |
| 09:07.50 | tofu | depends what your considerations are |
| 09:08.17 | tofu | it's not done in the least, so as a production tool to replace mged -- no, it's not "better" |
| 09:08.22 | clock_ | I think I need to learn more about the LGPL |
| 09:08.28 | tofu | but it is in a "better" direction, and better designed |
| 09:08.33 | clock_ | To really be sure I don't want to release my code under LGPL |
| 09:08.43 | clock_ | Maybe I will realize it's not so bad :) |
| 09:11.05 | tofu | if you're familiar with creative commons, LGPL is sort of like the attribution, share-alike CC license version |
| 09:11.21 | clock_ | So it's like BSD? |
| 09:11.49 | tofu | somewhere between bsd and gpl |
| 09:11.49 | clock_ | The obvious advantage of LGPL and BSD is that you don't run into the following problem |
| 09:12.05 | clock_ | I wanted to make a video and use a soundtrack, but the video used GFDL image and the soundtrack was CC-BY-SA |
| 09:12.19 | clock_ | The licences mean the same but are mutually incompatible so it would be illegal to do it |
| 09:12.28 | clock_ | I had to write to the author and wait for the answer |
| 09:12.40 | tofu | the difference basically being that if you make a mod to the lgpl code that you used, and publish software that uses that lgpl code, then you have to make those modifications available (bsd does not require this) |
| 09:13.23 | clock_ | So that if I link with a LGPL library and sell a proprietary program, I don't have to disclose. But if I mod that library I have to disclose, right? |
| 09:13.41 | tofu | only any mods to the library |
| 09:13.48 | tofu | your code is your code, their code is theirs |
| 09:14.18 | tofu | it's not "infectious", but does require disclosure of changes made |
| 09:14.44 | clock_ | And what do you need? |
| 09:14.53 | tofu | what do you mean? |
| 09:14.58 | clock_ | Can I keep the *.c file on the web GPL and just tell you you can use it under LGPL? |
| 09:15.06 | clock_ | Or do you need me to publish that file under LGPL? |
| 09:16.47 | tofu | hmm, it would have to be lgpl'd proper. I cannot update/modify exiting clauses that aren't under my domain |
| 09:17.09 | clock_ | So if I release that under LGPL it's OK? |
| 09:17.56 | tofu | technically, not necessarily |
| 09:18.11 | tofu | there's still the issue of copyright, which is separate from the license |
| 09:18.45 | tofu | and as you mentioned, that can't be changed without you "giving away all rights", which you don't like (and I agree/understand why you wouldn't) |
| 09:19.09 | clock_ | I can't give away these rights |
| 09:20.20 | clock_ | I don't understand why you cannot take LGPL |
| 09:20.44 | clock_ | If you are a LGPL project you can completely legally collect any LGPL pieces of code around the Web and just insert them into your work |
| 09:20.48 | tofu | did you read the copyright assignment link I posted? that went into considerable detail |
| 09:21.01 | clock_ | No |
| 09:22.02 | tofu | there are two main camps on this issue -- those that require assignment (which we are in) and those that do not |
| 09:22.28 | tofu | you might be surprised to find out, but there are vast numbers in both camps, and benefits and negatives to both positions |
| 09:22.33 | clock_ | And FSF also requires assignment, right? |
| 09:22.46 | tofu | for many of their projects, yes |
| 09:23.00 | tofu | can't speak for all of them, though -- they have hundreds |
| 09:23.09 | clock_ | What you can legally do is |
| 09:23.22 | tofu | but like, the gnu build tools -- autoconf, automake, etc .. those all require assignment for example |
| 09:23.23 | clock_ | a) Write an empty file (c) Sean Morrison |
| 09:23.30 | clock_ | b) release that under LGPL |
| 09:24.06 | clock_ | c) put my changes in. Now it's your work but derived from mine. The derivation was legal because it was according to my licence terms |
| 09:24.15 | clock_ | d) assign the copyright of your work to BRL-CAD |
| 09:24.53 | tofu | heh |
| 09:25.11 | tofu | if people could do that, gpl would have no weight behind it |
| 09:25.34 | clock_ | If an empty file doesn't stand up to 'statistical uniqueness' you just do it with an existing piece of library code because you said you are going to integrate it into a library anyway |
| 09:25.47 | clock_ | They can |
| 09:25.57 | tofu | you chose gpl, and it's rather explicit -- even my derivative would be required to be GPL |
| 09:26.05 | clock_ | The fact that a work is a derived one doesn't in any way diminish the fact it's your work |
| 09:26.34 | clock_ | Actually you cannot |
| 09:26.48 | clock_ | because my (c) notice has to be kept there according to LGPL |
| 09:27.39 | tofu | well, you said make a derivative, so i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt -- say I did make a true derivative and didn't just copy/paste |
| 09:27.57 | tofu | i'm still obligated to gpl the derivative, that's a requirement in gpl |
| 09:28.08 | clock_ | Or you can look how my program works, get the idea and just write it again |
| 09:28.27 | clock_ | That's a perfecrly legal way how to get the same functionality with ARL copyright |
| 09:28.59 | clock_ | change couple of variable names and function names, shuffle some comments and I won't sue you over infringement :) |
| 09:29.00 | tofu | that's a derivative .. I'd have to do the whole "clean room" thing where someone relays ideas from another room approach, and it's frankly not worth it for all but the most difficult drivers :) |
| 09:30.00 | clock_ | Why? What happens if you just rename couple of things in my code and say you wrote it once more? |
| 09:31.35 | clock_ | this is like coming to a homeless who needs food and saying "take some of my food" and he says "no that's illegal you have to stick it into my mouth" and I say "no your mouth smells I am not going to approach my fingers to your mouth" |
| 09:32.06 | clock_ | So I start finding a possible loophole in the law how he can legally steal it from my shopping bag when I want to give it to him :) |
| 09:32.49 | tofu | if you *really* want to have it included, you're going to have to change it on your end, not on mine -- maybe e-mail that legal team that helps with issues, they might have an idea given your country's assignment issues -- it could very well be the case that you are allowed to assign copyright under U.S. law, just not under your own |
| 09:33.54 | clock_ | "nforcement of copyright is generally not possible for distributors" - isn't a copyright violation a criminal offence? |
| 09:34.00 | tofu | actually, it's more like telling the homeless guy that there's free food and a warm bed in upstate new york.. but he lives downtown .. doesn't really help |
| 09:34.17 | clock_ | It's like saying "if you murder someone, only the murdered can sue you - the state attorney is completely helpless against the criminal" |
| 09:34.41 | clock_ | In CZ it's a criminal offence. |
| 09:35.09 | tofu | in most countries it is |
| 09:35.16 | tofu | but copyright is also per country |
| 09:35.40 | tofu | some countries require you to register to obtain copyright, some require fees, some don't etc |
| 09:36.07 | clock_ | But if I assign my copyright to you then you start owning the code and you can sue me over it's distribution |
| 09:36.15 | tofu | US government, for example, cannot *claim* copyright on original works in the US, but they can in every other country on the planet |
| 09:37.45 | clock_ | It's like giving a homeless a shelter and he sais "sorry I have concerns that someone could say I am burlarizing your house - I need you to assign the ownership of your house to me - but I promise I will allow you to still live there." |
| 09:38.57 | clock_ | If the courts worked according to the law, it would be a different issue. But sometimes it works that they compare who has more money, or a DoS attack is mounted against a weak victim using the lawyer fees. |
| 09:38.59 | tofu | not a bad analogy actually |
| 09:39.34 | clock_ | ARL comes to the judge, lobbies and bye bye |
| 09:39.46 | tofu | so leave it as is, you don't want to go that route, and frankly neither do I |
| 09:39.49 | clock_ | And I should assign copyright to face that risk? |
| 09:40.15 | tofu | heh, "ARL comes to the judge" |
| 09:40.37 | tofu | you can't just sue the gov't, at least the u.s. govt -- they have to let you sue them |
| 09:40.56 | clock_ | I can't sue them, but they can sue me - great :) |
| 09:41.23 | tofu | seriously though |
| 09:41.31 | clock_ | And when I say fuck off they kindnap me and bring to the guantanamo - I can't hold myself from assigning copyright to the US govmt |
| 09:41.34 | tofu | more trouble than it's worth |
| 09:41.40 | tofu | you don't even have a manpage written ;) |
| 09:42.14 | clock_ | I was expecting some problems so I delayed writing a manpage after I see my code will be really useful |
| 09:42.55 | tofu | we're not even to the point of determining whether it's technically beneficial to add the tool as is -- it'd need work to polish it up for production use |
| 09:43.23 | tofu | stuck talking about copyrights |
| 09:43.28 | clock_ | yes but now I see there is a bureaucratical problem that prevents me from contributing any code |
| 09:43.44 | clock_ | Except patches, obviously |
| 09:44.20 | clock_ | Better than writing a lot of code and taking care about proper manpage, commandline flags and then realizing I don't want to assign copyright to the US government |
| 09:44.55 | clock_ | Like there have been cases when a cryptography expert was put into jail just because he had a lecture - completely ridiculous things are going on in the US |
| 09:45.05 | clock_ | I don't want to entangle into this stuff unless absolutely necessayr |
| 09:46.22 | clock_ | Or a programmer who came to US by plane was put into jail because he was Arabian |
| 09:47.01 | tofu | unless you either 1) enter an agreement that requires assignment upon creation (that seems to be what gentoo is doing, so you technically never hold copyright, hence never transfer), or 2) release it public domain or 3) stick to patches perhaps |
| 09:47.04 | clock_ | They just determined he was a terrorist - and then it came out he isn't. The only way to be completely safe seems to not having anythhing common with the States. |
| 09:47.25 | clock_ | Why should I give away even a tiny bit from my safety when I get nothing? I am just giving in this case |
| 09:48.03 | tofu | why are you asking me? |
| 09:48.10 | tofu | i'm not asking you |
| 09:48.22 | clock_ | I understand BRL-CAD is giving me a huge benefit, but I am going to get that benefit even if I don't assign the copyright :) |
| 09:49.27 | tofu | yes, yet the same mentality you're taking is the same fearmongering that I had to fight for almost 5 years just to get it released as open source |
| 09:49.48 | clock_ | I am not fearmongering. The US are fearmongering/ |
| 09:50.26 | tofu | seriously, clock, I'm not going to get into politics -- it's a pointless discussion |
| 09:50.53 | clock_ | Sorry I just wanted to explain that I am not acting irrationally |
| 09:51.12 | clock_ | Deciding to assign to say FSF would be probably easier for me |
| 09:51.15 | tofu | i don't think politics should come into play with the licensing, nor should it be a factor in the consideration of most computing issues, especially software |
| 09:51.35 | clock_ | I didn't want you to have a feeling that I am doing it because I am mean or I want to impose arbitrary restrictions on you |
| 09:51.43 | tofu | there's plenty to be done that menefits the software by itself, for the sake of the software and the industry without getting into the politics |
| 09:51.48 | clock_ | Like write a little piece of code and then having fun dictating you the licence |
| 09:52.16 | clock_ | I can update the help files |
| 09:52.25 | clock_ | DO you mind if the help entry will be say 10 lines of text? |
| 09:52.33 | clock_ | Is there some requirement it has to be short? |
| 09:52.45 | tofu | I don't care if you're acting rationally or not -- you are making a decision motivated by your own personal politics and that's your decision, your right, your perrogative -- so be it, just don't try to get me to agree with that decision (that's my right) |
| 09:53.21 | tofu | the help entry should be "succint" |
| 09:53.49 | clock_ | But is there a place where more detailed description can be entered? |
| 09:54.05 | clock_ | This entry was so succinct I was unable to imagine almost anything how it works |
| 09:54.07 | tofu | in the mged documentation |
| 09:54.20 | clock_ | But that's impractical to work |
| 09:54.23 | clock_ | work with |
| 09:54.27 | tofu | the command html reference |
| 09:54.34 | tofu | i dont' mean the book |
| 09:54.37 | tofu | i mean on the help menu |
| 09:54.49 | clock_ | Where is the help menu? |
| 09:54.54 | tofu | it's.. |
| 09:54.56 | tofu | on the help menu |
| 09:55.03 | clock_ | Do you mean that if I type "help" it prints all the entries so they have to be short? |
| 09:55.09 | tofu | no |
| 09:55.16 | clock_ | I have File Edit Create etc. but no Help |
| 09:55.25 | tofu | keep looking :) |
| 09:56.08 | tofu | http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 09:56.12 | tofu | see the .. "Help" menu? |
| 09:59.47 | tofu | aiight, time to z, cya later |
| 10:20.23 | clock_ | Oh, the Help is to the right! |
| 10:21.07 | clock_ | Wow! Help on context! |
| 10:28.52 | clock_ | Does the VRML and X3D export work? |
| 11:29.29 | clock_ | I saw the picture of Mike Muus in the help |
| 11:29.39 | clock_ | Did he have a wife and children? |
| 13:12.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (6 files): Remove the "extra qualifications" in these files to quell the errors now spewed by g++ since 4.1+ |
| 13:17.07 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.07 | clock_ | nmg_break_all_es_on_v() code=2, why wasn't this vertex fused? |
| 13:17.07 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.25 | clock_ | [...] |
| 13:17.27 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.27 | clock_ | find_best_vu: There is a loop to cut, lu=x7d01a400 |
| 13:17.27 | clock_ | find_best_vu: There is a loop to cut |
| 13:17.27 | clock_ | bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler |
| 13:17.27 | clock_ | conversion of /tetrax/yellow.r FAILED!!! |
| 13:17.48 | clock_ | I tried to run g-vrml. Do these messages mean that the resulting VRML is broken? |
| 13:17.54 | clock_ | Or that parts are mimsisng? |
| 14:44.11 | ``Erik | missing parts, as described by the {()} syntax |
| 14:45.25 | clock_ | Why is this happening? |
| 14:45.40 | clock_ | The model displays OK, animates OK, there are no overlaps printed |
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| 21:32.21 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 00:08.02 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:22.19 | PrezKennedy | man i hate doing forms for the government |
| 00:23.07 | ``Erik | heh... |
| 00:23.16 | ``Erik | get used to it. even if ya don't work for the gubmint. |
| 00:25.12 | PrezKennedy | well on the upside they dont need to secretly spy on me anymore |
| 00:25.19 | PrezKennedy | they know it all anyways |
| 00:52.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:52.34 | ``Erik | do ya think they secretly spy on you cuz they NEED to? ;) |
| 01:06.58 | PrezKennedy | well theres no point in it being secret because they already have it all |
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| 05:06.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: add the generated brlcad.spec file to the dist |
| 08:22.29 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 12:48.45 | ``Erik | oh, wait, added to dist, n/m |
| 12:48.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:26.49 | clock_ | I am surprised how the glass looks realistically in BRL-CAD |
| 13:27.14 | clock_ | And also how BRL-CAD can be used to clarify composition of complicated 3D object better than words or images |
| 13:27.55 | clock_ | http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Lorries/ |
| 13:29.50 | archivist | most lorries travel outside rush hour so no need |
| 13:30.13 | clock_ | sorry that was a bad URL |
| 13:30.44 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_mpeg4_asp.avi |
| 13:30.50 | clock_ | This one is right - the video |
| 15:50.44 | clock_ | brlcad: can't play it? |
| 15:51.07 | brlcad | on a different machine, lacks a few codecs |
| 15:51.18 | clock_ | brlcad: can you play Theora or WMV? |
| 15:51.30 | clock_ | brlcad: it's encoded with xvid |
| 15:51.39 | clock_ | xvid or divx codec should be fine |
| 15:51.49 | brlcad | yeah, no divx here |
| 15:52.05 | brlcad | nor vorbis.. so perhaps wmv |
| 15:52.06 | clock_ | brlcad: try http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_wmv.avi or http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut.ogg |
| 15:54.13 | brlcad | hm.. even windows media player won't play the wmv |
| 15:54.23 | clock_ | It's a WMV in AVI container |
| 15:54.59 | brlcad | it still won't play it regardless :) |
| 15:55.29 | clock_ | Do you have SP2? |
| 15:55.41 | brlcad | not a windows box |
| 15:55.49 | clock_ | A coworker who has Windows XP can play all the videos I generate on my machine |
| 15:55.59 | brlcad | probably has the codex's installed |
| 15:56.12 | clock_ | But a colleague who hasn't SP2 cannot play any |
| 15:56.22 | clock_ | WMV and AVI are Microsoft-specified formats |
| 15:56.42 | clock_ | archivist: which one did you try? |
| 15:56.54 | archivist | first and ogg |
| 15:57.01 | brlcad | yeah, but they are still encoded with a codec regardless of the file format -- the player doesn't like the codec |
| 15:57.18 | clock_ | archivist: no wonder debian cannot play wmv and MPEG4 - proprietary formats. But not including Theora - no excuse |
| 15:57.46 | clock_ | There's nothing like player likes/doesn't like the codec |
| 15:57.51 | archivist | the world does not run according to M$ |
| 15:58.04 | clock_ | If something is encoded in format X, anything compatible to format X must be able to play it |
| 15:58.19 | clock_ | archivist: Theora is not MS. |
| 15:58.53 | clock_ | try to play http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut.y4m.bz2 |
| 15:59.04 | clock_ | bzip2 -d it first. It's YUV4MPEG2 and mplayer should be able to play it |
| 15:59.14 | clock_ | It's a raw video. No encoding. |
| 15:59.21 | clock_ | Raw Y'CbCr 4:2:0. |
| 15:59.38 | clock_ | With a couple of extra ASCII headers |
| 16:01.27 | clock_ | archivist: do you have libtheora installed on your debian? Do you have mplayer? |
| 16:01.37 | clock_ | VLC on Windows is able to play the Theora |
| 16:02.14 | clock_ | unfortunately I am unable to encode into Flash or Quicktime |
| 16:02.27 | clock_ | I could encode into MPEG2 |
| 16:02.31 | clock_ | Can you play MPEG2? |
| 16:02.34 | clock_ | But it would be huuuge |
| 16:03.52 | archivist | this box has totem but its going into terminal thrash atm |
| 16:04.38 | clock_ | terminal thrash == segfault aka signal 11? |
| 16:06.25 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.143) | |
| 16:07.21 | archivist | no that bz2 pushed the box to the limit till it crashed only a P2 |
| 16:07.51 | archivist | back to "normal" now |
| 16:08.56 | clock_ | something is wrong with your system when you cannot unpack zipped files |
| 16:09.19 | archivist | too much open at once , not enough ram........ |
| 16:09.35 | clock_ | Aren't you running KDE, OpenOffice or Java? |
| 16:10.15 | clock_ | These programs often eat a lot of memory |
| 16:10.43 | archivist | no java, no openoffice atm 6 firefox 6 gecko 9 terminal and a few others and a bot in the background |
| 16:11.02 | clock_ | can you play the .y4m? |
| 16:11.29 | archivist | as i said the unpack failed, so gave up |
| 16:15.27 | archivist | after shutting stuff down still using most of swap so gotta do something soon |
| 16:19.06 | clock_ | archivist: why doesn't your Debian box have Theora? |
| 16:19.51 | archivist | Ill ask the box and if it has a valid excuse |
| 16:22.57 | clock_ | Debian politicizes about free software all the time and Theora is THE hallmark perfectly free-software codec |
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| 22:30.10 | ``Erik | *bakebakebake* |
| 22:39.56 | Maloeran | Darn, I slided on a patch of ice riding my bicycle and broke a pedal |
| 22:40.29 | Maloeran | These ultra-light carbon fiber bicycles can't take much of a beating, really |
| 22:42.58 | Maloeran | I don't have a scratch myself, thanks to these full plate armors in the shape of puffy coats meant to handle -40C |
| 22:45.28 | brlcad | ouch |
| 22:46.38 | brlcad | probably smarter than my tendancy to still wear regular bike gear even when it's just a few C |
| 22:47.13 | brlcad | sucks about the pedal.. at least it wasn't the frame though :) |
| 22:47.15 | brlcad | or your head ;) |
| 22:47.26 | Maloeran | It offers surprisingly good protection... but riding through ice and snow is somewhat dangerous, still |
| 22:47.39 | Maloeran | :) Yes, it isn't too serious |
| 22:48.26 | ``Erik | no skiis? |
| 22:50.57 | Maloeran | I haven't tried that yet, I'm not sure it would be legal in the streets of Montreal |
| 22:51.04 | Maloeran | or in bicycle lanes |
| 22:53.41 | ``Erik | I'm under the impression that cars tend to fall over slightly less... y'know... 4 big fat tires instead of 2 skinny ones... far less pressure exerted... |
| 22:54.29 | ``Erik | yeah, $'s and environmental damage, but *shrug* still gotta get from point a to b, not like the old cottage industry days |
| 22:58.54 | Maloeran | Good point, sure :). Yet, riding a bicycle, including the physical exhaustion releasing endomorphin, is quite pleasant |
| 23:00.10 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.115.131) | |
| 23:06.49 | ``Erik | hmmmm, sometimes... as a hobby, perhaps :) |
| 23:07.10 | ``Erik | arriving where I need to in comfort is more pleasant to me than stitches on my face :> *duck* |
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| 04:58.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add configuration checks and build system support to disable C++ outright if necessary. |
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| 05:21.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: comment that those are the guts to the 'cp' command, let WDB_TCL_CHECK_READ_ONLY work even if there isn't an interpreter |
| 05:22.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/track.c: let WDB_TCL_CHECK_READ_ONLY work even if there isn't an interpreter.. that define really belongs in a header. |
| 05:27.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: |
| 05:27.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: make at least the copy command work without an interpreter.. really all of the |
| 05:27.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: librt needs to be able to function without an interpreter necessarily being |
| 05:27.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: present... a good start would be some wrapper function/macro over |
| 05:27.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Tcl_AppendResult w/ bu_log |
| 05:42.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl tclscripts/helplib.tcl mged/cmd.c): update c command help, the expression is not optional (it wants at least the first object name) |
| 05:54.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: stub in initial details for copying a v5 combination object. it's not functional yet, but this was a good breaking point. |
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| 18:46.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Update support for building/selecting compilation for openNURBS. Now specifies the include path and requisite c++ library. |
| 18:47.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Renamed on_nurb.h header to brep.h for clarity. |
| 18:52.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Defined new b-rep primitive constant id |
| 18:58.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: Define new b-rep primitive internal structure. |
| 19:03.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add support for conditionally including brep primitive in the build (determined by presence of openNURBS library/configuration option) |
| 19:06.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_brep.cc g_on_nurb.c): Rename g_on_nurb.c to g_brep.cc for clarity and to trigger proper C++ compilation. Add C placeholder for C++ openNURBS class needed in rt_brep_internal structure. |
| 19:07.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: Add b-rep primitive interface and function table definition. |
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| 21:35.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cc: Add initial implementation of an openNURBS memory archive to support brep export/import. |
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| 00:58.16 | Twingy | wow, last time I saw open nurbs was when I added it to nurbana in 2000 |
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| 09:42.00 | clock_ | I can't make a light work |
| 09:42.17 | clock_ | I made a small sphere, selected the light shader, red light and put there 1000 lumens and it still doesn't do anything |
| 09:42.30 | clock_ | looks gray and the adjacent think is also flat gray, no red glow |
| 09:44.39 | clock_ | oh, it must be included in a group and blah blah |
| 12:40.21 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
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| 20:42.10 | cad48 | woot, http://irc.brlcad.org is back on-line |
| 20:42.19 | *** part/#brlcad cad48 (n=45faff46@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:02.45 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 21:03.16 | *** join/#brlcad fuzznut1234 (n=45fa9b55@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:03.26 | fuzznut1234 | yay, I'm a temporary luzer! |
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| 08:28.57 | Maloeran | Ahah, these online IQ tests are so worthless, way too easy to get a perfect score... People pay to be flattered I guess |
| 14:14.56 | ``Erik | iq tests were never designed to find out who's smart, they were designed to figure out who was in need of special attention and care... |
| 17:27.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: the enumeration script was counting too many directories. ignore the CVS, .libs, .deps dirs when counting |
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| 20:04.26 | *** join/#brlcad jmorrow (n=jhouse@charter-242-017.caltech.edu) | |
| 20:07.24 | jmorrow | hello everyone. I have a simple question |
| 20:08.14 | brlcad | jmorrow: hello |
| 20:09.17 | jmorrow | I tried to run the tutorial on brlcad for Mac OS X, and got an error message that my display had no name or environmental variable. Any suggestions? |
| 20:14.30 | brlcad | tutorial for Mac OS X? |
| 20:14.31 | brlcad | jmorrow: regardless, sounds like you're not running in X11 (which is unfortunately still required when running on Mac OS X) |
| 20:15.14 | brlcad | or not listening, hm |
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| 20:55.20 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 04:38.19 | brlcad | woot, 6.2 released |
| 06:01.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (shaders.sh Makefile.am): simplify the eagleCAD pix file name handling.. no sense making a link. call it eagleCAD-512x438.pix now |
| 06:26.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (16 files in 4 dirs): |
| 06:26.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Pedantic licensing update to retract the "BSD Advertising Clause", i.e. clause 3 |
| 06:26.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: of the original 4-clause BSD license. As granted by William Hoskins, Director |
| 06:26.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to the Office of Technology Licensing at the University of California, Berkeley, |
| 06:26.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update the license on code copyrighted by Berkeley to retract the advertising |
| 06:26.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: clause. See ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/pub/4bsd/README.Impt.License.Change for |
| 06:26.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: details. |
| 06:31.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): the clauses are no longer numbered, so the author's original exemption of the advertising clause is no longer relevant. reword correspondingly. |
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| 19:26.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 19:26.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Updated the remaining remnants of the original BSD license from libtermlib and |
| 19:26.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: libregex as part of a pedantic licensing update to retract the 'BSD Advertising |
| 19:26.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Clause', i.e. clause 3 of the original 4-clause BSD license. This change was |
| 19:26.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: granted by William Hoskins, Director to the Office of Technology Licensing at |
| 19:26.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the University of California, Berkeley. The license on code copyrighted by |
| 19:26.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Berkeley (as well as code that had updates from other contributors but that |
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| 02:21.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: 2D drawing entities are now converted to sketch objects rather than NMG wire edges. |
| 02:34.42 | brlcad | woo hoo! |
| 02:35.44 | brlcad | john continues to rock |
| 02:50.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: woot, john modified dxf-g to turn 2D wireframe entities specified in the dxf in as sketch objects instead of nmg wireframe objects |
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| 12:26.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): prepare openNURBS for win32-msvc runtime libraries branch |
| 12:33.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_brep.cpp Makefile.am g_brep.cc): rename g_brep.cc to g_brep.cpp for compatibility reasons with MS Visual Studio |
| 12:37.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (.cvsignore libz.dsp): prepare libz for win32-msvc runtime libraries branch |
| 12:41.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: undef the former for WIN32 defined read and write |
| 12:43.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: MS Visual C doesn't like empty structs (known bug) |
| 12:46.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): openNURBS and libz integration into win32-msvc runtime libraries branch |
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| 15:28.40 | brlcad | rossberg: pretty cool :) |
| 15:36.22 | rossberg | brlcad: is it already operational? (it looks like it isn't) |
| 15:36.42 | brlcad | no, not yet -- but it's actively being worked on |
| 15:37.05 | brlcad | one of the other devs is learning the openNURBS api -- looks like it might solve a lot of problems |
| 15:37.30 | brlcad | though it doesn't seem to have ray intersection evaluation, so we will still have to implement that on our own |
| 15:37.39 | brlcad | we == he of course :) |
| 15:42.27 | rossberg | we are working here with rhino too, so we are looking forward to the new possibilities :-) |
| 15:42.49 | brlcad | yeah, it makes for a trivial 3dm converter too, which was part of the motivation |
| 15:44.41 | brlcad | one of the current plans is to make the serialized representation of the brep objects just be a 3dm bytestream so files could be fully preseved on conversion in or out |
| 15:46.15 | brlcad | the bigger goal, though, is that IF their tessellation support works fast/robust enough and boolean evaluation can be easily added, this might also help solve our overall tessellation-of-implicits problem too |
| 15:46.44 | rossberg | but it would still be possible to reference single objects in the stream? |
| 15:47.09 | brlcad | yeah it would |
| 15:47.41 | brlcad | more just as the serialization format itself, instead of something custom |
| 15:48.16 | brlcad | it's just now being looked at, so it's not clear that is the way it's going to be done in the least yet |
| 15:49.19 | brlcad | the specs indicate a per-object overhead would be very minimal (and make processing code a lot simpler) |
| 15:55.09 | rossberg | i've some doubts about the "easy" in adding boolean operations, but it would at least push the free form surfaces(?) in BRL-CAD |
| 18:06.20 | brlcad | stop staring |
| 18:06.22 | brlcad | start writing |
| 18:43.13 | ``Erik | um, I'm plannificatin' and strategificatin' |
| 18:43.20 | ``Erik | I don't lay code when I don't know what's going on. |
| 18:46.10 | archivist | you dont edit add bug , ohhhhh thats what it does! method |
| 19:32.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:43.45 | Maloeran | Eh well, seems that immigration visa won't work after all |
| 20:27.59 | ``Erik | yuh oh |
| 20:28.18 | ``Erik | should I raise alarm bells over here? |
| 20:34.42 | Maloeran | Well, I guess Lee might want to know that |
| 20:37.33 | brlcad | what does "won't work" mean? |
| 20:37.40 | Maloeran | I'll remain a consultant working for SURVICE from Canada ( until I reach 12 years of experience, get a degree or marry an american girl ;) ) |
| 20:38.09 | Maloeran | The immigration lawyers said that the immigration visa demand wouldn't be accepted |
| 20:38.10 | brlcad | should be trivial for you to get an indefinite work visa if anything |
| 20:39.56 | brlcad | that's what I assumed you were actually trying to do -- and that much is pretty straightforward |
| 20:40.29 | Maloeran | Apparently, it would have been trivial with a completed degree |
| 20:40.38 | brlcad | you could come on a work permit visa, h1b visa iirc that survice would apply for as an employer |
| 20:41.08 | brlcad | sounds like BS to me |
| 20:41.12 | Maloeran | Right, yet that requires either 12 years of experience or a degree |
| 20:41.41 | brlcad | if I remember the paperwork, the clause requires unique expertise applicable to the job, which you rather specifically have |
| 20:41.46 | brlcad | that's the overarching criteria |
| 20:42.00 | brlcad | everything else just helps |
| 20:42.58 | brlcad | maybe the requirements have changed, but I can't imagine a degree of any sort other than basic education being a requirement |
| 20:43.25 | brlcad | oooh, eww |
| 20:43.52 | brlcad | there is a clause for that now.. hrmph |
| 20:44.39 | Maloeran | Ah, yes there is :). I thought there were still ways from what I read, but SURVICE's lawyers said otherwise |
| 20:45.10 | brlcad | "a person may obtain an educational equivalence through a combination of education, specialized training or progressively responsible work experience." |
| 20:45.53 | brlcad | 12 years comes from that "progressively responsible work experience" where 3 years experience generally equates to a year in school to the legal folk |
| 20:46.38 | Maloeran | I see. |
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| 20:50.44 | cadguy | whois maloeran |
| 20:51.41 | Maloeran | Hi Lee |
| 20:51.54 | cadguy | Afternoon |
| 20:52.18 | Maloeran | I guess Erik forwarded the news I got from SURVCE's lawyers ; there wouldn't be an immigration or work visa for me in the short term |
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| 20:52.34 | Maloeran | Lacking either a degree or 12 years of experience |
| 20:52.45 | cadguy | I heard. Only one response: *&@^@&*%@@#$^$*&$$^@#$%$!!!!! |
| 20:52.54 | Maloeran | I second that statement :) |
| 20:54.04 | cadguy | ? |
| 20:54.43 | Maloeran | I mean I agree with the *&@^ part. Mark recommended to get some Bachelor from the university of Phoenix quickly ; not too sure what that implies yet, it's surely months/years away |
| 20:55.36 | cadguy | I don't know for sure, but that sounds like a great angle. |
| 20:55.48 | cadguy | Still, it is some time away. |
| 20:56.29 | cadguy | Makes one consider the diploma mill approach. |
| 20:57.41 | Maloeran | Yes, I'm looking... SURVICE seems interested in keeping me around, visa or not, but it's surely not as practical |
| 20:58.22 | cadguy | there are definite advantages to geographic co-location |
| 20:58.32 | ``Erik | yeah, makes lunches more amusing |
| 20:58.50 | ``Erik | oh, uh, and coordination and communication, too o.O |
| 20:58.53 | Maloeran | It's surely more enjoyable to begin with, yes |
| 20:59.06 | cadguy | coordinating lunces is good ;-) |
| 20:59.11 | cadguy | lunches |
| 20:59.19 | brlcad | i'm all for lunch in toronto |
| 20:59.43 | cadguy | We could make it a weekly event! 8-) |
| 20:59.49 | brlcad | or even in montreal too I suppose ;) |
| 20:59.56 | ``Erik | heh, 'cept that's a hell of a bike ride for mal, dude... :D |
| 21:00.11 | Maloeran | Eh, Montreal is far away in the snow with a bike these days :) |
| 21:00.16 | brlcad | oh he'd be going too? :) |
| 21:00.49 | ``Erik | <-- not affluent enough to visit strange countries (and canada is very very strange) just for lunch |
| 21:01.25 | cadguy | not effluent enough? There's medication for that. |
| 21:02.27 | ``Erik | this code has been infected and infested. :/ it'll take more work than I'd hoped to extract for standalone testbedding. :( |
| 21:03.36 | ``Erik | (and what kinda freakin' function name is Doug2Mike() ???) |
| 21:03.45 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 21:03.46 | brlcad | hehe |
| 21:04.38 | cadguy | DAG -> MJM |
| 21:05.23 | brlcad | Maloeran: do you know if they considered a H2B visa instead? that would at least get you a visa for a year and is less strict |
| 21:05.54 | Maloeran | I don't think they did, they mostly considered H1B and various ways to achieve immigration status |
| 21:06.01 | Maloeran | I'll have a look and pass the message |
| 21:06.54 | brlcad | it's entirely limited to a year, and I think non-renewable -- but it might be useful to get something else in place |
| 21:08.15 | Maloeran | I see, sound good. That would give more than an year to find a bachelor degree somewhere |
| 21:26.11 | brlcad | otherwise, you could become their season code gardener or something ;) |
| 21:26.16 | brlcad | h2a visa |
| 21:26.31 | brlcad | that'd get you another year or two |
| 21:27.52 | Maloeran | Is that the visa for working in agriculture? :) Eheh, yes |
| 21:30.08 | ``Erik | *sigh* a simple binary tree instead of a hash. ffs. |
| 00:15.59 | Maloeran | http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9425/atheistry3.jpg - I'm not quite sure it's indeed a joke, the alternative is... terrifying |
| 00:52.09 | ``Erik | http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The_Complicator's_Gloves.aspx |
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| 06:09.33 | Maloeran | Nice story, Erik |
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| 09:37.59 | Maloeran | Today's JerkCity comic is even more unintelligible than usual. Some day, uou'll have to explain to me how it makes any sense, Erik :) |
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| 13:12.32 | clock_ | Hi |
| 13:12.48 | clock_ | In BRL-CAD it's possible to map a texture on an object that is taken from a .pix file, right? |
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| 14:15.04 | ``Erik | which, "caught in a snowstorm"? |
| 16:15.17 | brlcad | clock_: yes, the "Principles of Effective Modeling" book covers doing that iirc |
| 16:16.15 | brlcad | usuaully you want a stack shader using texture and phong/plastic, or texture+plastic+bump, etc |
| 16:16.51 | clock_ | what gamma is assumed in the .pix file? |
| 16:25.40 | brlcad | assumed by what? the intensity during ray-tracing will be entirely dependent upon the other shaders selected and the light sources |
| 16:26.22 | brlcad | otherwise the pix file just provides raw rgb values to whatever *else* will otherwise be transforming the values |
| 16:27.37 | brlcad | if you *just* apply a texture without another shader, the only correction will be that of the lightsource in your scene -- that is to say probably some horrible linear curve |
| 16:31.20 | clock_ | let's say I set the output of the brl-cad to be linear |
| 16:31.38 | clock_ | and increase red instensity in the .pix file twice. Do I get twice as bug red component on the output? |
| 16:31.44 | clock_ | Or is the input assumed to have gamma=1/2.2? |
| 16:32.11 | clock_ | Like in raytracing you have to calculate linear, unless you want to get bullshit. But when you have 8-bit files, linear doesn't make sense, only 2.2 |
| 16:33.07 | clock_ | because linear 8-bit = banding |
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| 19:34.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/Makefile.am libtienet/Makefile.am): install libtie headers... |
| 19:37.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): type fixes (size_t isn't necessarily unsigned int, signed vs unsigned, etc) |
| 19:56.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 19:56.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Change the include path in OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS to ${top_srcdir} instead of |
| 19:56.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: ${top_builddir}, as opennurbs.h is not generated. |
| 22:54.55 | Maloeran | Ah, I'm really falling in love with the game Go, and I found some cafe where they play 24 hours a day |
| 22:55.22 | Maloeran | I should play with Lee next time :), though I'm not too good yet |
| 23:01.09 | brlcad | ``Erik: they shouldn't, but they're included similarly to the vers.c files so that you can build on Windows from a checkout |
| 23:02.02 | brlcad | so until someone(tm) improves the build system on windows so that they're properly created, we get the joy of seeing that they are modified (which is a different problem in itself) |
| 23:04.29 | brlcad | ``Erik: also, the size_t changes are problematic |
| 23:04.51 | brlcad | don't you think they would have been made to use size_t a decade ago were there not some concern? :) |
| 23:05.04 | brlcad | it didn't use size_t on purpose |
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| 23:40.55 | ``Erik | perhaps, but it causes breakage on modern platforms now :/ |
| 23:41.18 | ``Erik | mebbe it should be ifdef'd... #ifdef DARKAGES #define size_t unsigned long |
| 23:41.19 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 01:02.47 | brlcad | what exactly was the breakage? |
| 01:03.07 | ``Erik | width differences on 64b fbsd |
| 01:03.28 | ``Erik | mostly just -Wall -W -Werror -ansi -pedantic hunting *shrug* |
| 01:03.43 | ``Erik | admin -o 'em if you want *shrug* |
| 01:04.07 | brlcad | cvs admin is the devil |
| 01:04.18 | ``Erik | (everyone else who read that cmd, forget it now. seriously. flush it out of your brain. it's a nuclear command.) |
| 01:04.38 | brlcad | no kidding |
| 01:05.06 | brlcad | if I have to restore a cvs backup, i'd be removing commit access at the same time |
| 01:05.14 | brlcad | admin is baaad |
| 01:05.25 | brlcad | anyways, the actual error though? |
| 01:05.53 | brlcad | was it on the cast on the malloc() link in bu_malloc()? |
| 01:05.54 | ``Erik | meh, I don't remember off the top of my head, I actually modified my checkout in december... |
| 01:06.09 | brlcad | or on a caller to bu_malloc() |
| 01:06.22 | ``Erik | the bu_malloc<->malloc relationship |
| 01:06.35 | brlcad | heh, well that's true with either |
| 01:08.00 | ``Erik | <-- got a hair up his arse to do the anal flags thing, got that far and got busy with other things *shrug* |
| 01:18.03 | brlcad | hmm, I'll have to let it simmer a bit .. the biggest impact is adding another dep to the bu interface (even though there are a few others that sprinkle in size_t too) |
| 01:18.49 | brlcad | given the move to allow anything that is strict ansi 89 complaint, I think most of the old reasons vanish |
| 01:19.23 | brlcad | not sure if size_t is 89, but it's at least 99 so it just adds a header dep on stddefs.h |
| 01:31.20 | Maloeran | size_t is C89 |
| 01:38.51 | ``Erik | when we merge rayforce in, it'll induce c99 as a requirement (for that part) |
| 01:39.33 | Maloeran | Ah yes, it's all pretty much C99 |
| 01:41.39 | ``Erik | what, c89 vs c99 vs, uh, vax k&r? |
| 01:41.58 | ``Erik | emacs vs vim vs alltheothercrap? |
| 01:42.06 | Maloeran | Oh, no :). Old good religious debates, you know... Reason versus absurd theories |
| 01:42.12 | ``Erik | hum |
| 01:42.21 | ``Erik | reason vs absurity... so... vim vs emacs... |
| 01:42.22 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:01.49 | brlcad | out of curiosity, what c99isms? |
| 02:03.18 | brlcad | i recall seeing a lot of GNUisms, but not so much c99isms |
| 02:04.55 | brlcad | nothing wrong with making c99 allowable too, it was on the plate for next year -- just strict c89 was the "next step" and a lot of cleanup in itself |
| 02:14.31 | Maloeran | C99 data types, restrict keyword, variable-length arrays... I think the rest is gnu99 |
| 02:15.43 | ``Erik | scoped functions? (function definitions inside of functions) |
| 02:16.07 | Maloeran | No nested functions, that was in the old code |
| 02:16.07 | ``Erik | or didja not go that route? |
| 02:16.13 | ``Erik | aight |
| 02:18.18 | brlcad | why do I get the feeling the code has never been compiled with anything but gcc? :) |
| 02:19.17 | Maloeran | Ahaha. I'm not sure, can you answer that Erik? :) |
| 02:20.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:31.41 | Maloeran | It should be reasonably portable ; 32, 64 or X bits, IEEE or non-IEEE floats, GNU'isms with alternative paths... It still needs testing in other environments |
| 02:36.04 | ``Erik | I'm sure mipspro or sunpro would puke |
| 02:36.33 | Maloeran | They are C99, right? |
| 02:36.41 | ``Erik | don't think so... |
| 02:36.52 | ``Erik | d'no if tendra is |
| 02:37.27 | brlcad | they both support c99 .. it's more what exact headers are allowed and what mode you tell the compile in by default |
| 02:37.27 | ``Erik | huh, cool |
| 02:37.47 | brlcad | default behavior (akin to gcc's gnu99 mixed default) is a hybrid that might turn off some c99 stuff |
| 02:38.13 | brlcad | my faith in sunpro's capacity to compile c99 strict is weak |
| 02:38.48 | brlcad | last time I was working on sunpro, if you told the compiler to go strict, it would puke on its own system headers being non-compliant and abort |
| 02:38.57 | ``Erik | hehehe, sweet |
| 02:41.44 | brlcad | yeah, i was amused |
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| 14:02.27 | rossberg | question from yesterday: what's the problem with vers.c on Windows? |
| 14:37.35 | clock_ | And, what's the assumed for the pix files when rendering textures? |
| 14:37.45 | clock_ | assumed -> assumed gamma |
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| 15:09.23 | brlcad | dout! |
| 15:10.40 | brlcad | clock_: i don't know if there's another language barrier coming into play, but i answered yesterday that it entirely depends on the shader(s) being used |
| 15:11.09 | brlcad | there's no "gamma value" that will answer that question that covers all the various shaders |
| 15:12.07 | clock_ | What are the shaders that can map pixmaps? |
| 15:12.26 | brlcad | what do you mean by map pixmaps? |
| 15:12.36 | clock_ | cause pixmaps to appear on objects |
| 15:12.37 | brlcad | you can stack *any* shader on top of any other |
| 15:12.54 | brlcad | each layer is effectively a filter |
| 15:13.06 | clock_ | subtractive or multiplicative filter? |
| 15:13.21 | brlcad | arbitrary, depends on the shader |
| 15:13.30 | brlcad | that's the whole point |
| 15:13.45 | clock_ | How do I make a cube which is painted with a pixmap? |
| 15:13.53 | clock_ | plastic + bitmap shader? |
| 15:14.05 | brlcad | that's one way |
| 15:14.17 | clock_ | and what will be the assumed gamma of the pixmap in that case? |
| 15:14.57 | brlcad | what answer will make you happy? |
| 15:15.05 | clock_ | the correct one |
| 15:15.50 | clock_ | Or - if you don't understand the question - |
| 15:16.04 | clock_ | what happens with the pixmap when it enters the shader? |
| 15:16.12 | clock_ | How is it interpreted, or for what is it used? |
| 15:16.43 | brlcad | i actually just get the feeling that you're not understanding my answer |
| 15:18.15 | clock_ | I want to know with what gamma I should generate the pixfiles |
| 15:18.15 | brlcad | it doesn't boil down to the same gamma metric you have with the display, you have the values in the image file that are parsed directly |
| 15:18.16 | clock_ | where do I figure this out or how do I figure this out? |
| 15:18.16 | brlcad | i suppose you could "say" that they're linearly looked up |
| 15:18.25 | brlcad | but that isn't entirely true in itself as it still depends on the light |
| 15:19.13 | clock_ | linearly looked up == gamma is 1.0? |
| 15:19.53 | brlcad | probably the closest corrollary, but again, that's not entirely valid mapping |
| 15:20.08 | clock_ | what is a corollary and what is a valid mapping? |
| 15:20.19 | clock_ | I want to know the gamma I should encode it with! |
| 15:20.33 | clock_ | Or at least tell me how it's calculated inside |
| 15:21.11 | clock_ | In the worst cause if I don't manage to pry the answer from you, I can try putting pixels with values of 64 and 128 and look at ratio of the resulting values ;-) |
| 15:21.24 | clock_ | determine by an experiment ;-) |
| 15:22.48 | brlcad | ray is fired at scene, intersection is found with an object, that object has a texture shader and a phong shader, texture value is looked up and combined with light visibility from that position in 3-space, that intensity is combined with the phong shader's intensity lookup that is similarly based on light intensity at that point, but also takes into account shadowing, specularity/diffusion parameters based on object curvature |
| 15:23.01 | brlcad | that's the jist of "how it's calculated" |
| 15:23.42 | clock_ | texture value is looked up that means we take a value triplet from the input pixfile, right? |
| 15:24.45 | clock_ | like if there is say 0x80 0x80 0x40 in the pixfile, then we take 0x80, 0x80, 0x40... |
| 15:24.51 | brlcad | and on top of all of that, the resulting image map is then mapped to a framebuffer which can apply a gamma adjustment, which is then displayed in a display manager window which can also perform a gamma adjustment |
| 15:25.53 | clock_ | What I am interested in is "texture value is looked up and combined with light visibility from that position in 3-space, that intensity is |
| 15:25.56 | clock_ | ..." |
| 15:26.16 | clock_ | What does the "combined" exacly comprise? multiplying the pixmap triplet with the light triplex? |
| 15:26.28 | clock_ | triplet |
| 15:27.42 | brlcad | basically yes, through a settable weighting factor that is part of the phong shader |
| 15:28.25 | clock_ | is there some exponential function applied to the pixfile before it is multiplied with the ray? |
| 15:28.52 | clock_ | So if I understand it correctly, the pixmap value defines directly (with some scaling) how much the object reflects light at that point? |
| 15:29.08 | brlcad | not that comes to mind |
| 15:29.32 | brlcad | no, it doesn't determine how much is actually reflected -- phong does that |
| 15:29.56 | clock_ | OK lemme express more precisely |
| 15:30.06 | clock_ | if you have some pixel value in the pix file say 10 |
| 15:30.18 | clock_ | and the pixel happens to reflect 10% light |
| 15:30.35 | brlcad | ok |
| 15:30.39 | clock_ | and you increase the value in the pix file to 20, now the pixel will reflect 20% of light? |
| 15:31.25 | brlcad | you mean 20% of that 20 intensity? |
| 15:31.39 | clock_ | no I mean that the number of photons will double |
| 15:31.49 | clock_ | if you imagine the scene like a pinball with photons |
| 15:31.57 | clock_ | a photon == a pingpong ball |
| 15:32.34 | brlcad | if the pix file has 10 and phong determines reflectance of 10%, the pixel will be intensity 1 -- increase the pix file to 20 and with that same reflectance of 10% will result in a pixel intensity of 2 |
| 15:33.00 | clock_ | yes that makes sense |
| 15:33.04 | clock_ | this is what I wanted to know |
| 15:33.12 | clock_ | in other word, the gamma of the input pixfile is 1.0 |
| 15:33.49 | brlcad | that is where we diverge |
| 15:34.31 | brlcad | maybe to say that "when combined with phong paraameters that give a gamma of 1.0", yes the gamma of the input pixfile is 1.0 |
| 15:34.40 | clock_ | For me, "double the value in the pixfile and the pixel intensity doubles" is enough for me |
| 15:35.14 | archivist | reflection is linear |
| 15:36.01 | brlcad | that it is |
| 15:36.13 | clock_ | The other possible meaningful implementation would be that someone would realize that the 8-bit values in the input pix file cause a banding near 0 because of insufficient colour depth |
| 15:36.29 | clock_ | and would insert a power-to-2.2 function between loading the pixfile and sending it into the shader |
| 15:37.08 | clock_ | but according to what you are saying, it's not this way |
| 15:37.17 | brlcad | you could leave the pix file unmodified and make a non-linear light too, or a non-linear shader, or in the display manager too |
| 15:38.02 | clock_ | no that would produce corrupted image |
| 15:38.06 | brlcad | banding is a visual artifact of the end result -- the math occurs in floating point |
| 15:38.19 | clock_ | the pixfile isn't in floating point |
| 15:38.39 | brlcad | i didn't say it is |
| 15:46.32 | clock_ | can I imagine the bitmap shader like there is an image printed on the object and the pixfile gives reflectivities in the individual places? |
| 15:47.25 | brlcad | like a bump map? |
| 15:47.30 | brlcad | there is a bump map shader |
| 15:47.39 | clock_ | no |
| 15:47.58 | clock_ | bump map is something where the shape of the surface is supposed to be distorted, isn't it? |
| 15:48.09 | brlcad | only visually distorted |
| 15:48.25 | brlcad | by changing reflectivities at various places based on the image |
| 15:48.48 | dtidrow | a displacement map would actually distort the surface |
| 15:48.49 | clock_ | I always saw the bump map for something that modulates the normal vector |
| 15:48.55 | clock_ | like embossed relief |
| 15:49.08 | dtidrow | basically, yes |
| 15:49.16 | clock_ | no I don't mean bummap |
| 15:49.48 | clock_ | I mean like if I want to render say a soda can |
| 15:49.58 | brlcad | clock_: yes, and if you look at the edge of something that has a bump map, it's got a nice non-bumpy smooth edge |
| 15:50.00 | clock_ | the soda can is cylinder and they printed something on that using offset print |
| 15:50.11 | clock_ | the soda can is not wrinkled in any way |
| 15:50.49 | clock_ | or I want to render a room that has a mural (painting) on a wall |
| 15:51.00 | clock_ | then I want pixmap and not bumpmap, right? |
| 15:51.24 | brlcad | you'd generally want both for the visual effect |
| 15:51.51 | brlcad | or actually model the paint if you're going to do it "right" in a solid modeling realm |
| 15:52.12 | clock_ | you mean like simulating the fact that the paint adds thickness to the object? |
| 15:53.08 | clock_ | That's how I modeled a smoke flue that is painted black inside and white outside |
| 15:53.09 | brlcad | shaders are just visual effects, mostly "fake" per-se .. if you care about the actual material properties of even something like paint, you'd give it a physical representation and model it |
| 15:53.15 | clock_ | 0.5mm thin and 0.1mm paint inside |
| 15:53.19 | clock_ | thin -> tin |
| 15:54.05 | clock_ | but that's a bit tedious process when it's not just a whole surface painted but I want a Ronja logo on it |
| 15:54.13 | clock_ | then I could use the pixmap instead, couldn't I? |
| 15:54.27 | brlcad | you can generate geometry from pixmaps |
| 15:54.48 | brlcad | similar to how the circuitry was modeled in the principles book |
| 15:55.24 | brlcad | at least I think it covered the circuitry modeling.. that was how it was done regardless |
| 15:55.46 | brlcad | in general, solid modeling is tedious ;) |
| 15:56.26 | clock_ | I wouldn't say |
| 15:56.38 | clock_ | after I learned the meaning of the matrix |
| 15:57.01 | brlcad | the tool(s) hopefully make it less tedious, but the goal of getting something that is physically accurate (instead of just visually accurate or "close enough") generally requires providing a lot of detail that you wouldn't intuitively think you'd need sometimes but you do |
| 15:57.15 | clock_ | cxsx cxsy cxsz cx+= cysx cysy cysz cy+= czsx czsy czsz cz+= 0 0 0 1 |
| 15:57.45 | clock_ | I don't use the click-click rotations and shifts anymore, I enter the matrices directly in vi and it's fast to model |
| 15:58.36 | brlcad | that's good, but is that more the efficiency of vi or the deficiency of mged? I'd say it's more the latter |
| 15:58.59 | clock_ | I use mged only for rotations that are not multiple of 90deg |
| 15:59.04 | brlcad | although that particular feature of using an external text editor to modify matrices is in mged too |
| 15:59.06 | clock_ | which is say 1% of the model |
| 15:59.19 | clock_ | I would appreciate if I didn |
| 15:59.24 | clock_ | t have to type the trailing 0 0 0 1 |
| 15:59.47 | clock_ | I made a file /home/clock/m containing 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 and that's a highly valuable tool :) |
| 16:00.05 | clock_ | in vi I type :r ~/m and I have a matrix and then I edit one number and I am happy :) |
| 16:00.48 | clock_ | Is it allowed to use tabs instead of spaced in red? |
| 16:01.35 | brlcad | clock_: if you have your EDITOR var set before running mged, give 'red object.r' a try |
| 16:01.51 | clock_ | I am using red object.r |
| 16:02.03 | brlcad | ah, okay |
| 16:02.37 | brlcad | tabs should work fine, I think it's any whitespace |
| 16:02.37 | clock_ | plus the green axes are also invaluable :) |
| 16:02.50 | brlcad | if not that'd be stupid and would be trivial to fix |
| 16:03.05 | clock_ | can I even split the line into multiple ones - using \n as whitespace? |
| 16:03.20 | brlcad | that's what I mean, I believe so .. |
| 16:03.28 | clock_ | wow that's cool :) |
| 16:03.36 | brlcad | if it doesn't work, let me know and I'll fix it |
| 16:03.41 | brlcad | but it certainly "should" |
| 16:04.04 | brlcad | pretty sure it used to work that way |
| 16:04.07 | clock_ | Then I put the matrix tab-separated on 4 lines |
| 16:04.40 | clock_ | is it possible to easily patch the red so it puts the matrix there even if it's a unit matrix? |
| 16:16.19 | clock_ | brlcad: I think with your information I will be able to generate a picture correctly where the colours of the pixmap are not deformed |
| 16:16.41 | clock_ | so it would look like the assumed physical reality |
| 16:25.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: even if the matrix is an identity matrix, print it so that the user has a starting point. add a comment about using red with a read-only db. |
| 16:25.55 | clock_ | wow :) |
| 16:26.19 | clock_ | can you make the matrix to be formatted with tabs and spread over 4 lines and indented by 1 tab? |
| 16:26.24 | clock_ | Then it would be even easier to edit |
| 16:26.38 | clock_ | and now when can I downloaded this CVS brlcad? |
| 16:26.45 | clock_ | when -> where? |
| 16:37.26 | brlcad | have to make sure multiline works first |
| 16:37.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: massive ws cleanup, make braces consistently match hacking style |
| 16:41.27 | clock_ | I have a complicated model of almost whole Ronja installation |
| 16:41.31 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:41.47 | clock_ | some of the files can be termporarily incomplete/empty/absent because I am rsyncing at the moment |
| 16:42.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libbu routine to make a temp file reliably/consistently |
| 16:42.39 | clock_ | look for "ronja" keyword |
| 16:42.51 | clock_ | actually the manpage of rsync suggests that rsync should be pretty atomic. |
| 16:43.07 | clock_ | so don't worry :) |
| 16:53.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: restructure file so that the function declarations can go away. |
| 17:35.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: |
| 17:35.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: while convenient and would otherwise be usefule, you can't reliably use '+=' |
| 17:35.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: operator on automake variables without requiring more current versions of |
| 17:35.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: automake be installed (which we don't) so instead set a var and use accordingly |
| 17:40.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add configure support for enabling/disabling framebuffers, display managers, image converters, and geometry converters |
| 18:11.27 | ``Erik | "download this cvs brlcad"? |
| 18:11.43 | ``Erik | read the cvs instructions at http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad |
| 18:12.02 | ``Erik | namely, http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=105292 |
| 18:13.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: |
| 18:13.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: also do not need the openNURBS wrapper functions zcalloc() and zcfree() since |
| 18:13.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: we're just letting zlib do it's own thing. compiling them in results in |
| 18:13.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: multiple symbol definitions (and link errors) on os x at link time. now links. |
| 18:27.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove more previous build products, now including aclocal.m4 too |
| 18:59.23 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-62.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:40.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/common.h): only include brlcad_config.h if actually building BRL-CAD. Prevents preprocessor redefinition warnings for things like PACKAGE. (this is the first step towards a cleaning activity). |
| 19:55.13 | ``Erik | 'thoom' |
| 19:56.22 | clock_ | We have a wind here in Europe |
| 19:56.30 | clock_ | with an online bodycount |
| 19:58.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/ (32 files in 32 dirs): define the BRLCADBUILD preprocessor symbol |
| 20:27.37 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6270657.stm Good news, but I especially like the picture :) |
| 20:36.39 | ``Erik | hm, yeah, gccisms |
| 20:36.44 | ``Erik | __attribute__ is very gcc |
| 20:37.33 | ``Erik | -std=c99, too |
| 20:38.16 | Maloeran | If you disable SSE support, I don't think there will be many __attribute__ left |
| 20:38.39 | ``Erik | heh, the notion is hardly gcc specific... gcc's implementation is just radically unlike everyone elses... |
| 20:38.46 | ``Erik | very... linuxy, that way... kinda microsofty |
| 20:39.38 | ``Erik | (though much cleaner than the usual #pragma mechanism) |
| 20:41.59 | Maloeran | It's clean enough, it could be abstracted through some #define ALIGNED __attribute__((aligned(16))) if you want |
| 20:43.01 | ``Erik | blows up good on gcc2.95 heh |
| 20:43.20 | Maloeran | Really? Surprising |
| 20:44.36 | ``Erik | 'const restrict' seems to confuse it |
| 20:44.58 | Maloeran | Non-sense, restrict is c99 and that's perfectly valid |
| 20:46.37 | ``Erik | ... gcc 4.2 probably doesn't implement c99 perfectly, and this irix box has gcc 2.95 on it... |
| 20:46.43 | ``Erik | ./RF/graph.h:47: parse error before `elem' |
| 20:47.19 | Maloeran | Then it doesn't understand "restrict", perhaps it just doesn't support C99 |
| 20:47.49 | ``Erik | oh, wait, there it is, hah |
| 20:47.53 | ``Erik | cc1: unknown C standard `gnu99' |
| 20:48.22 | Maloeran | Woohoo. Okay, gcc >=3.x is required |
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| 21:09.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: Added documentation for -t option. |
| 21:10.19 | ``Erik | it's just gettin' to be that time of day |
| 21:12.38 | iday | finally got the $%^& pro-e converter running under linux |
| 21:13.15 | dtidrow_work | hehy |
| 21:13.24 | dtidrow_work | heh, rather... |
| 21:14.45 | iday | 'course now I need to remove the inappropriate debugging comments... |
| 21:16.34 | brlcad | sorted out the makefile crap in src/external/ProEngineer/mk.in ? |
| 21:16.43 | iday | heh - not exactly |
| 21:16.44 | iday | :-) |
| 21:16.58 | iday | but I should - to make it easier to repeat ;-) |
| 21:17.49 | brlcad | really needs a --with-proe flag so you can specify where ptc's junk is installed |
| 21:18.46 | iday | yes - I'd like to get it automake-ified - but that's more work than I'm gonna do today... |
| 21:19.13 | iday | pro/e has eaten up my supply of patience (around 0900 this morning) |
| 21:19.38 | brlcad | woke up at 5am for some reason today |
| 21:19.42 | brlcad | i'm starting to pay for it |
| 21:19.46 | iday | ewwww |
| 21:23.52 | brlcad | iday: something weird about your sf account .. it doesn't send e-mails for you when you commit |
| 21:23.59 | brlcad | does it dump any errors? |
| 21:24.30 | ``Erik | iday == jay-lo? |
| 21:36.03 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-62.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 22:18.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (24 files in 6 dirs): uppercase all #define symbols |
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| 15:58.56 | ``Erik | bah, stupid fucking C |
| 16:01.01 | archivist | C is vundabar for obscure bugs |
| 16:01.49 | dtidrow | lol |
| 16:02.03 | archivist | my bestest was on arm the C compiler use short branches in a case/switch, add 1 line crash!!! |
| 16:02.11 | archivist | used |
| 16:02.13 | ``Erik | actually, it's cpp that's annoying |
| 16:02.34 | ``Erik | the lack of recursive macros... (syntax aware macros would be better, but not every language can be a lisp) |
| 16:07.01 | brlcad | Twingy: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070118/lf_nm/solar_home_dc a goal? :) |
| 17:52.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: add an option, a third parameter, that if set to anything will inform the macro to not keep the flag as a CFLAG/LDFLAG/etc leaving it up to the user to do something with the provided bc_[param2]_works variable |
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| 18:21.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed) |
| 18:21.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: this fixes a compilation/linking issue involving the new C++ openNURBS library |
| 18:21.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: integration. it accounts for bad behavior in pre 1.5.8 libtool where the |
| 18:21.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: generated libtool script would contain an -all_load directive on the linker line |
| 18:21.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: for libraries that use convenience libraries as part of the |
| 18:21.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: whole_archive_flag_spec. that flag in turn causes gcc to fail with various |
| 18:21.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: errors on duplicate standard math and io symbols. the libtool script is simply |
| 18:26.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed) |
| 18:26.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: this fixes another compilation/linking issues involving the new C++ openNURBS |
| 18:26.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: library integration. added is a check for the -fexceptions gcc compiler/linker |
| 18:26.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: flag that takes care of an unresolved __Unwind_Resume symbol error when linking |
| 18:26.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: rttherm (quite odd that only rttherm seems to provoke that symbol being |
| 18:26.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: undefined). the symbol relates to exception handling support in gcc that would |
| 18:26.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: otherwise be provided if linking with g++. could also have probably added the |
| 18:28.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: |
| 18:28.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: use the EXCEPTIONS value as a LDFLAG so that we get -fexceptions here when |
| 18:28.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compiling with the gcc compiler and using the new openNURBS library. unclear |
| 18:28.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: why we only get the __Unwind_Resume symbol error on only rttherm and not any |
| 18:28.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: other binaries. |
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| 20:45.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): |
| 20:45.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: for ease of (cvs diff) comparisons and review -- and since they are presently |
| 20:45.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: stored in CVS for Windows build convenience -- sort the contents of the tclIndex |
| 20:45.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and pkgIndex.tcl files (taking the comment header into account) |
| 20:51.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): initialize the lists, so it doesn't error if there was no header or contents |
| 20:58.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/Makefile.am libtienet/Makefile.am): let the dynamic libs be built in addition to the static ones... |
| 21:00.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to extract python compile/link info a little better, instead of assuming 2.4 on a standard FreeBSD. |
| 21:02.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (3 files in 3 dirs): sorted indices |
| 22:41.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: annotate that the rtweight zero index fix was sf bug 1629990 |
| 22:45.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (12 files in 12 dirs): no longer ignore the tclIndex and pkgIndex.tcl files, see if the modification updates can now be sorted out since they're now sorted. |
| 22:52.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (19 files in 11 dirs): add the index files to CVS so they don't necessarily need to be generated upon checkout. no sense in archer's index files having all the fun. |
| 23:46.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: butler updated the documentation such that the g_qa manual page now describes the -t tolerance option, fixes sf bug 1595839 'g-qa man page' reported by davidloman |
| 00:33.54 | Maloeran | Erik or brlcad, I have a strange design question as this code will end up in BRL-CAD and it should be consistent with the practices there. For network distributed processing, is it be acceptable for slave nodes to "blindly" trust all communication from their master node? |
| 00:34.44 | Maloeran | Or should it be robust, checking and validating all messages for coherency to maintain an usable, normal state? |
| 00:35.39 | Maloeran | I don't expect it would normally matter, unless you distribute processing between trusted and non-trusted boxes, or non-trusted entities forwarding packets |
| 00:36.35 | ``Erik | off the cuff, I would imagine that trusting netowrk traffic would be sufficient... I can doublecheck on monday or tuesday... send me an email <erikg@arl.army.mil> to remind me :) |
| 00:37.47 | Maloeran | Okay, some stuff would just be a bit complex or costly to "validate" for correctness... |
| 00:38.39 | Maloeran | I'm not saying faulty input would cause buffer overruns allowing to run any code on slave nodes, but at the moment, it could get them to segfault or be stuck in infinite loops |
| 01:26.39 | brlcad | Maloeran: in general, I believe there can be an assertion of trust for network-distributed processing is fine (otherwise someone would have already mentioned something) |
| 01:27.39 | brlcad | it should, however, probably still be reliable and robust -- some reasonable due-diligence to make sure things don't fall apart if someone just wiggles a network cable, for example |
| 01:29.08 | brlcad | i.e. you probably don't have to worry about *malicious* code and attacks, but you should be robust under normal operation that things work smoothly and fail in a non-catastrophic manner if they have to fail |
| 01:41.23 | Maloeran | Right, understandably so. As an example, if a master node supplies broken graphs to slave nodes, it wouldn't be easy for them to detect that their rays are going to get stuck in infinite loops |
| 01:43.59 | Maloeran | Thanks, it should be stable under cable wiggling and so on |
| 01:45.10 | brlcad | although getting stuck in an infinite loop would be a catastophic failure, about as useful as crashing |
| 01:45.37 | Maloeran | That's difficult to prevent if the slave nodes do receive faulty, tempered data |
| 01:45.53 | Maloeran | ( i.e. not in any normal circumstances ) |
| 01:45.58 | brlcad | how would they potentially receive faulty data? |
| 01:46.08 | brlcad | other than abuse |
| 01:46.33 | Maloeran | It shouldn't normally happen, hence why I was asking if I can trust the network |
| 01:47.38 | brlcad | which depends on several things.. I trust that when I send a tcp packet that it will eventually arrive, I don't have even that same trust on udp of course |
| 01:48.39 | brlcad | you can trust that you don't have to worry about malicious abuse, packets getting modified on the way, interceptions |
| 01:49.33 | Maloeran | All right, thanks |
| 01:51.05 | brlcad | but not that connectivity will be sustained, that you can loose a connection at *any* point (and how reliably you deal with the fault is a question, but generally some sort of handling even if to just abort()) |
| 01:51.31 | brlcad | whether or not you have to protect against yourself, i.e. bugs in your client code, is a question for yourself :) |
| 01:52.02 | Maloeran | I know that :). Clients can at any time connect and disconnect from their master, smoothly or brutally |
| 01:52.20 | Maloeran | Clients can join up while work is being done, have their state synchronized and start shooting rays |
| 01:53.00 | brlcad | you rolled your own networking? |
| 01:53.45 | brlcad | er, sry jargon -- s/rolled/wrote/ |
| 01:54.08 | Maloeran | It's a low-level interface made of in/out buffers supplied by the user, it can be using tcp, mpi, infiniband, etc. |
| 01:55.04 | brlcad | i mean you wrote your own listen(), select(), read(), etc code or is it all over MPI or a mix or some other interface? |
| 01:55.07 | Maloeran | And the user inserts its own messages within the stream for distribution of raytracing work, so that high-level results can be transfered between nodes instead of large low-level ray intersection results |
| 01:55.44 | brlcad | you're already higher level than I'm asking |
| 01:56.22 | Maloeran | It's meant to work with any communication protocol really, it doesn't fundamentally care about that. There's only an user-supplied networking interface for tcp at the moment |
| 01:56.46 | brlcad | uhm "user-supplied"? |
| 01:56.53 | brlcad | i have to write socket code to use it? :) |
| 01:57.10 | Maloeran | Yes, I mean it's not part of the raytracing library itself :) |
| 01:57.32 | Maloeran | I'll write other interfaces later on |
| 01:57.38 | brlcad | that's actually probably a good thing |
| 01:57.41 | brlcad | a very good thing |
| 01:58.19 | brlcad | brl-cad already has a sufficiently robust network library that is preferred for most client/server applications |
| 01:58.27 | brlcad | (libpkg) |
| 01:58.57 | Maloeran | Great then |
| 02:00.24 | brlcad | i was wondering just because if you had only rolled your own.. i've *yet* to see someone write their own socket code that was truely fault tolerant even under "normal use" (without just aborting on every little abnormality) |
| 02:00.34 | brlcad | at least with respect to writing basic tcp/ip networking code |
| 02:01.05 | Maloeran | I think I have done that long ago, I once wrote some client-based and browser-based game that was in itself a http server written from scrach |
| 02:01.44 | Maloeran | *Perhaps* less portable than your libpkg though :) |
| 02:03.07 | brlcad | just about everyone's written client server apps and most work reasonably well all the time -- but not necessarily truely fault tolerant; i'd say it's even harder than writing portable code that works with any compiler |
| 02:03.24 | brlcad | libpkg is pretty robust, but it's not even 100% |
| 02:04.11 | Maloeran | I don't entirely see what you mean by "fault tolerant", but the code didn't encounter any "fault" it wasn't handling running for two years |
| 02:04.18 | brlcad | portability is usually where things fall apart.. some assumption that worked on linux, that doesn't do a darn thing when running under hpux or bsd or solaris, etc |
| 02:04.44 | brlcad | the code in a specific environment didn't have a fault -- put it in a different environment.. let the fun begin :) |
| 02:04.44 | Maloeran | Networking fault tolerance seems rather simple to me, though I may be mistaken |
| 02:05.01 | Maloeran | Oh, well that :). Okay, that code of mine is strictly Linux >= 2.4 |
| 02:05.11 | brlcad | if you assume standards compliance and a standard networking api it is easier |
| 02:05.36 | brlcad | rather trivial actually |
| 02:06.01 | Maloeran | I'm guessing libpkg supports mpi and infiniband? |
| 02:08.03 | Maloeran | It doesn't appear to, actually |
| 02:08.07 | brlcad | it's focus is very specific to client/server applications as a direct package transport layer -- basically at the same level of mpi, not higher |
| 02:08.46 | Maloeran | I see TCP stuff, do you have support for infiniband? |
| 02:10.29 | brlcad | not specifically, it's not been used over infiniband afaik -- though i'm not sure there's anything that would preclude it from working |
| 02:11.13 | Maloeran | There doesn't seem to be support for fbsd's kqueue() or Linux's epoll() either... |
| 02:11.47 | Maloeran | I guess it's very robust at what it does, perhaps not geared towards peak performance |
| 02:12.02 | brlcad | yep, and nope |
| 02:12.23 | brlcad | predates most of those anyways |
| 02:13.56 | Maloeran | Thanks for the pointer, I'll look into it more in details once I'm ready to move on from tcp |
| 02:14.57 | brlcad | np |
| 02:15.49 | brlcad | it's not meant to be fancy or the fastest, but it is extensively portable and the behavior is pretty robust for what it was designed to do |
| 02:16.30 | brlcad | there's src/libpkg/tpkg.c that basically implements ttcp client and server all in one |
| 02:16.37 | brlcad | as an example |
| 02:18.58 | Maloeran | *nods* I'll have to dig a bit more to find non-blocking I/O |
| 02:28.35 | Maloeran | There sure is much copying and internal dynamic allocation in there |
| 02:32.37 | brlcad | we did already clarify that it's purpose is a robust simple api, not performance already, didn't we? that said the performance is almost always dwarfed by the network transport or application code itself |
| 02:32.59 | brlcad | that is, i've yet to see it actually be a bottleneck concern worth optimizing |
| 02:37.24 | brlcad | buffer allocation could certainly be improved, but it's still not something I'd even consider thinking about until the bottleneck or some profile showed it to be an issue |
| 02:42.12 | ``Erik | hrmph |
| 02:42.21 | ``Erik | it may be starting the obvious.. |
| 02:43.05 | ``Erik | but tcp guarantees packets get to the target.. whole... |
| 02:43.13 | ``Erik | udp makes no such assumptions |
| 02:43.35 | ``Erik | so if you want udp transmitted data to be verifiable, you must do it yourself... |
| 02:45.50 | ``Erik | mal: I've started wiring up a program to do brlcad vs adrt vs rayforce cmparisons... correctness and performance... I'm hoping that sometime next week, I'll have softare working with adrt and librt... and hopefull very soon after, permission to give you a copy |
| 02:46.10 | ``Erik | excuse my kbd mistakes... whiskey has been involved. O.o |
| 02:46.44 | ``Erik | (well more than that night in salt lake city. *cough*) |
| 03:06.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: that was part of the point (regarding assumptions) |
| 03:07.25 | brlcad | and yeah, was quite stating the obvious :) |
| 03:49.50 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168050744.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:09.00 | Twingy | brlcad, yes |
| 05:20.33 | Maloeran | Great Erik, let me know how it goes, if you need some specific demo coded for benchmarking |
| 05:22.51 | Maloeran | brlcad, that's surely right. I'm well aware that I over-optimize and see inefficiencies everywhere |
| 05:46.41 | Maloeran | Erik, if correctness is "low", we can turn off automatic vector generation and a couple other things to improve that point ; just tell me so if it appears to be an issue |
| 06:56.53 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-129.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 13:36.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): clean up after py-compile |
| 13:36.26 | *** join/#brlcad KeenEars (n=opera@eat.ssau.ru) | |
| 13:40.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: trailing newline |
| 13:41.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/main.sh: trailing newline |
| 13:42.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: trailing newline |
| 13:43.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: trailing newline |
| 13:44.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/.cvsignore: trailing newline |
| 13:48.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/ (6 files in 6 dirs): trailing newline cleanup |
| 13:51.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/rtwizard: standard header and footer |
| 13:53.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/vas4/.cvsignore src/vdeck/.cvsignore TODO): trailing newline |
| 13:57.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (26 files): update copyright to 2007 |
| 14:07.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: |
| 14:07.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Remove the carte blanche statement that allowed selection of the license at |
| 14:07.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: user's discretion and GNU's provision. If there's motivation to change the |
| 14:07.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: license, even to a new version, it will need to be a conscious effort and |
| 14:07.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: decision. |
| 14:08.07 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-93-149.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 14:11.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am COPYING autogen.sh configure.ac): update copyright to 2007 |
| 14:11.59 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 14:12.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: copyright statement only relevant to current year in the example |
| 14:13.13 | brlcad | no, i'm not doing them one at a time |
| 14:13.23 | ``Erik | find . -type f | xargs sed -E -i.bak 's/[ \t]+$//' |
| 14:13.26 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 14:13.39 | ``Erik | (if you're on a decent os... I don't think linux can do that) |
| 14:14.16 | brlcad | yeah, there was a script that did that sort of cleanup too |
| 14:14.29 | brlcad | a whole category of things like that |
| 14:14.47 | ``Erik | <-- would've expected to see something like "brlcad/ (897 files in 47 dirs): trailing newline" out of cia |
| 14:15.00 | brlcad | nah, there was only the handful |
| 14:15.11 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 14:15.23 | brlcad | the copyright script reports them, so I was cleaning up while it churned |
| 14:15.30 | ``Erik | it made a LOT of cvs report noise when I did that to openal a few years back |
| 14:15.43 | ``Erik | too many vc++ coders touching the repo, I guess |
| 14:16.05 | brlcad | did most of that cleanup before we went open source |
| 14:16.08 | ``Erik | or, 'ide' coders, rather... the disease has spread |
| 14:16.17 | brlcad | (since that's when the copyright script was written) |
| 14:16.44 | brlcad | those are basically the ones that were crept in since last year |
| 14:16.59 | brlcad | lee and bob mostly |
| 14:17.09 | ``Erik | bobs in windows land |
| 14:17.18 | brlcad | yeah, I don't know what lee's excuse is :) |
| 14:17.19 | ``Erik | want I should break lees pinky next I see him? ;) |
| 14:21.11 | ``Erik | and you'd be surprised how many "software developers" don't grok the assertations made by tcp and udp and the fundamental differences o.O it's sad... (but they're the same coders who don't even put udp, much less rdp on the table when making design decisions) |
| 14:22.43 | ``Erik | Maloeran: I'm going to get librt and adrt/libtie working in this framework, and it has stubs for rayforce... once it works and goes through the formal release process, you'll have 4 or 5 functions to fill out to get rayforce linked and operating. I'm doing the heavy lifting, you just have to wire your engine into it :D |
| 14:24.31 | brlcad | yeah, I usually have to explain to some dev on bz a couple times a year about how there assumption that packet X arriving before Y (or at all) is a bad assertion to make |
| 14:24.58 | brlcad | surprisingly even happens with some of the more experienced coders, and they'll make the assumption repeatedly |
| 14:27.46 | brlcad | problem more stems from the fact that they do happen to see the behavior of ordering and delivery 99% of the time, if not better, so they often try to blame routers and other crap when it doesn't get there in some order or at all -- and the problems usually only rear their head when it's pushed out to users (where that 1% or 0.1% ends up being dozens/hundreds of bug reports) |
| 14:28.03 | ``Erik | bz is a udp protocol? |
| 14:28.09 | ``Erik | (I doubt rdp) |
| 14:28.41 | ``Erik | in a perfect world, udp is reliable and delivers packets in order... the real world isn't perfect *shrug* |
| 14:28.50 | brlcad | it uses a mix of udp and tcp, depending on whather the packet requires a delivery guarantee |
| 14:29.07 | ``Erik | reponsiveness is probably also a major que |
| 14:29.33 | ``Erik | if you lose a tcp packet, it has to stop the stream and re-request the lost packet... then rebuild it in stream order before you can read() it |
| 14:29.36 | brlcad | yeah, tcp is a pig, rather unplayable if that's all you used |
| 14:30.14 | brlcad | there's an option to make all packets tcp only, and you basically have to be on the local net |
| 14:30.25 | brlcad | otherwise lag is too unbearable with just a couple players |
| 14:30.31 | ``Erik | which results in hitching... sorta similar to shoddy gc (naive stop©, mark&sweep)... infrequent halts |
| 14:31.36 | brlcad | so it's a mix, things like posiition updates (which can be a couple dozen per second per player) are sent udp while things like player spawns and shot starts are tcp |
| 14:32.15 | brlcad | doesn't really matter if you miss an update to some tanks' position, there are going to be many more following -- but i fyou missed notification that they fired a shot.. that could be bad |
| 14:32.47 | ``Erik | oh, btw... the python crap I did yesterday... works dandy on linux and fbsd... not so much using the preinstalled python on a mac (they dont' have the .a file, rhel ONLY has the .a, ...) I think I'm at the point of not caring... I'm only doing it to support this rayforce vs adrt (in an s2 like environment) app, and osX isn't high on the list of concerns :/ |
| 14:33.24 | ``Erik | so if you get really bored and want python linked in on osX, ... I'll let ya take care of that... otherwise, adrt is still "not officially supported" I guess |
| 14:33.49 | ``Erik | does bz do the quack style "delta delta delta key" type thing? |
| 14:33.51 | brlcad | hey, the checks are in there.. if it can autodetect, so be it .. if it still can't so be it :) |
| 14:34.08 | ``Erik | it had detects for the python interpreter executable |
| 14:34.19 | brlcad | right, still does |
| 14:34.25 | brlcad | they're just inside the macro |
| 14:34.55 | ``Erik | finding the libraries and headers was not searched, justin hardwired it for python 2.4 installed normally to /usr/local (fbsd style), so that's what I was working around yesterday... it can now cope with python 2.5, python 2.2 on linux (/usr), ... |
| 14:35.10 | brlcad | yep |
| 14:35.19 | brlcad | i've had that mess he left in the back of my mind all year |
| 14:35.37 | ``Erik | wow, my english is worse than a java devers code |
| 14:36.09 | ``Erik | aaanyhow, I have a mission to complete, I'm just fixing enough to complete it. |
| 14:36.22 | brlcad | shame really, most folks would really really like to use isst if it just worked out of the box and you could, oh say, pass it a.g file and have it display |
| 14:36.43 | ``Erik | heh, yeah |
| 14:37.23 | brlcad | as it is, you have to fuss with the compile, fuss with a conversion, fuss with a config, fuss with running it (probably the easiest aspect) |
| 14:37.26 | ``Erik | if we had reliable tesselation, burning some space to have .g files with both csg and triangles would be awful attractive |
| 14:38.00 | ``Erik | or fast tesselation *shrug* |
| 14:38.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1675 files in 81 dirs): update copyright to 2007 |
| 14:38.20 | brlcad | openNURBS might actually help there |
| 14:38.44 | brlcad | it seems to include most of the functionality to handle NMG processing |
| 14:38.47 | ``Erik | hrmmmm, |
| 14:39.06 | brlcad | whether it works or not, or how well or how fast is another question altogether of course |
| 14:39.17 | ``Erik | so having primitive/csg geometry and tnurbs in the file? then tesselate the tnurbs? |
| 14:39.18 | brlcad | because on paper, librt's nmg stuff does everything too |
| 14:39.34 | brlcad | just not robust |
| 14:39.42 | brlcad | yeah, something like that |
| 14:39.48 | ``Erik | hehehe, yeah, curley brackets and dropped regions out the wazoo, yes |
| 14:39.58 | brlcad | more of a dual representation where the primitives/csg would be stored on disk |
| 14:40.23 | brlcad | trimmed nurbs or some more generic brep form would just be another primitive as usual |
| 14:40.26 | ``Erik | my uneducated gut feeling is that csg->tnurb might be necessarily expensive |
| 14:40.46 | brlcad | but each primitive would have the (dual-rep) capability of describing itself as a brep spline surface |
| 14:41.08 | brlcad | then we just need a means to evaluate arbitrary csg on brep spline to spline surfaces |
| 14:41.10 | ``Erik | and when ya measure time vs space, disk space is pretty damn cheap |
| 14:42.10 | brlcad | csg->csg tnurb would be practically immediate, eval'd tnurb->facets is also nearly immediate |
| 14:42.19 | brlcad | evaluating the csg is what takes time |
| 14:42.51 | ``Erik | ok, I'm assuming that the represented tnurb geometry is post csg... no overlaps |
| 14:42.53 | brlcad | i.e. going from csg tnurb->eval'd tnurb (or what we presently do with csg->facets) |
| 14:43.09 | brlcad | you can have before or after, without overlaps |
| 14:43.41 | brlcad | just a matter of how do you carve up those spline surfaces, make new surfaces, so you can get rid of the booleans |
| 14:44.11 | ``Erik | yeah, my mind was already on the assumption that if you want to deal with tnurbs, you want to deal with the post-csg tnurbs, so you'd want to cache those to disk |
| 14:44.12 | brlcad | that'll be the hardest part, but it's not intractable .. you're only dealing with one surface/object type |
| 14:44.39 | brlcad | if they can't be evaluated on the fly, you would want to cache them to disk regardless |
| 14:44.52 | brlcad | along with the facets even potentially |
| 14:45.12 | brlcad | depends just how fast those two steps take |
| 14:45.43 | brlcad | other cad systems seem to be able to do both on the fly |
| 14:45.57 | brlcad | i.e. within a second or two with moderately complex parts |
| 14:46.14 | brlcad | that's more than reasonable if we can get that far |
| 14:48.57 | ``Erik | I'm under the impression that we like to load entire complex systems up when other cad systems are severely limited in how much they can have in memory at any given time |
| 14:50.43 | ``Erik | are files being explicitely skipped in your copyright update script? |
| 14:51.21 | brlcad | yes |
| 14:53.42 | brlcad | there are a lot of files we don't have the copyright on to be changing |
| 14:54.11 | brlcad | you have an example of something not updated that should have? |
| 14:54.13 | ``Erik | ah, I found several that have "United States Government" as the copyright holder |
| 14:55.20 | ``Erik | lemme clean things up a little and commit these... |
| 14:55.27 | ``Erik | then you'll see which ones in the email or whatever |
| 14:56.09 | brlcad | yeah, on a quick glance, I see it missed at least 90 for some reason |
| 14:57.11 | brlcad | and the list i'm looking at, there's a reason on most of them .. like missing headers |
| 14:57.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: use dates formatting to extract the year instead of awk... |
| 14:58.40 | brlcad | sh/copyright.sh is what updates |
| 14:59.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 5 dirs): update copyright to 2007 |
| 14:59.50 | ``Erik | misc/macosx/Resources/License.rtf misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc src/gtools/g_qa.1 |
| 15:00.35 | brlcad | ahh yeah, it specifically ignores misc |
| 15:00.59 | *** part/#brlcad KeenEars (n=opera@eat.ssau.ru) | |
| 15:01.43 | brlcad | should probably add misc though and just exclude the known 3rd party |
| 15:06.14 | ``Erik | interesting that it missed g_qa.1 |
| 15:06.26 | brlcad | yeah, implies something is wrong in the file |
| 15:09.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: copyright on the whole starts back in 1984 |
| 15:11.03 | brlcad | vers.vbs is that vb script I was talking about |
| 15:11.25 | brlcad | just need similar ones for the other scripting activities the build process assumes |
| 15:16.37 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 15:23.25 | ``Erik | should do just fine, provided the semantics of the file aren't corrupted... |
| 15:24.09 | ``Erik | file that says "this data is at offset X" and change the character count.. |
| 15:24.36 | brlcad | hmm, extended regex foo too, something like \(([cC])|?\) |
| 15:25.45 | ``Erik | that depends on the breed of sed |
| 15:25.50 | ``Erik | the sed in fbsd supports it |
| 15:26.03 | ``Erik | I'd be surprised if the one in irix does... not sure on leenewx |
| 15:26.08 | ``Erik | sed -E |
| 15:26.39 | brlcad | don't really care about portability, this is once a year :) |
| 15:26.52 | brlcad | i think i can find a bsd or linux box at least once a year |
| 15:27.01 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 15:27.13 | ``Erik | gnu sed does NOT do extended (or 'modern' regex) |
| 15:27.55 | ``Erik | might do a test to verify that sed -E behaves like you expect it to behave and exit with an error if it doesn't, just in case someone else tries it or ya forget :D |
| 15:29.28 | brlcad | trying to see if the match works at all for starters |
| 15:29.40 | brlcad | or I can just fix the one use of that blasted character |
| 15:32.39 | ``Erik | option+g, amusing |
| 15:37.19 | brlcad | ah, even better, just allow for an optional character |
| 15:43.55 | brlcad | woot, that'll do |
| 15:48.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: |
| 15:48.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add support to detect/convert \a9 copyright symbols, convert them to (c) for |
| 15:48.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: consistency just like everything else. also, more importantly, add the ability |
| 15:48.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to use this script to process individual files (e.g. in conjunction with find). |
| 15:48.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: if there's an argument list, that is what will be processed. otherwise, it will |
| 15:48.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: do the usual task of processing everything under the src root that it recognizes |
| 15:48.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: (and that isn't exempted). |
| 16:01.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (cup.sh Makefile.am mged.html mged1.html cup): it's a shell script, so call it cup.sh instead for consistency |
| 16:02.27 | ``Erik | what about the generated scripts? like, uhhh, brlman/awf |
| 16:03.24 | brlcad | those are installed commands where the fact that they're shell scripts is just an implementation detail |
| 16:03.43 | brlcad | plus that was just a doc script |
| 16:04.58 | brlcad | most of the installed user-scripts are unsuffixed, brlman/awf/benchmark/archer/rtwizard |
| 16:09.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: oop, the dotfiles thing caused automatic to go all empty list crazy. remove that contraint, but add a slew of other exemptions of stuff it should be able to safely ignore |
| 17:51.55 | Maloeran | ``Erik, about these 4-5 functions to fill up for a rayforce interface, I hope I can expect these to be friendly with processing of rays in batches and the concept of ray sources? |
| 17:57.17 | ``Erik | um |
| 17:57.21 | ``Erik | unfortunately, not very |
| 17:58.19 | Maloeran | Look, the rayforce interface is somewhat peculiar and it has to be used intelligently to provide good performance |
| 17:58.31 | ``Erik | extern RtTrace* rt_shoot (RtGeometry *geom, RtHandle hp); |
| 17:58.31 | ``Erik | extern double rt_getsize (RtGeometry *g); |
| 17:58.31 | ``Erik | extern bool rt_getbox (RtGeometry *g, VmVect *min, VmVect *max); |
| 17:58.31 | ``Erik | extern RtGeometry* rt_constructor (RtGeomInfo *info, int info_needed, NmPool *comp_names); |
| 17:58.38 | Maloeran | It's quite flexible, but one has to understand and consider how it works |
| 17:59.12 | ``Erik | RtHandle holds exactly 1 ray |
| 17:59.23 | Maloeran | That is very, very bad. |
| 17:59.28 | ``Erik | obviously |
| 17:59.39 | ``Erik | I'll talk to lee about adjusting the interface |
| 18:00.06 | ``Erik | this is the interface ripped almost directly from the "target app" |
| 18:00.19 | Maloeran | Please consider the concept of shooting many rays from a single point. Failing that, consider "displacements" from a fixed origin for the bundle of rays |
| 18:00.23 | ``Erik | if we can unstupid THEIR code, life is grand... but it's not mine to fix... |
| 18:00.26 | Maloeran | The smallest the displacements, the better |
| 18:00.37 | ``Erik | the normal vehicle of behavior is orthographic |
| 18:00.53 | ``Erik | with randomly scattered secondaries |
| 18:01.45 | Maloeran | All right, are the secondary rays traced from the intersection points of previous rays? |
| 18:02.07 | ``Erik | but it's all good, adrt assumes perspective projection and bundles for performance, and you are competing on level ground |
| 18:02.25 | ``Erik | ummmm |
| 18:02.28 | ``Erik | I'm not sure |
| 18:02.45 | ``Erik | I *THINK* they assume either the 'entry' or 'exit' point of a "solid" part |
| 18:03.05 | Maloeran | Typical example : ray sources, from which to shoot secondary rays, can be updated to match the intersection points of primary rays |
| 18:03.07 | ``Erik | and in behavior, it's very similar to shooting, y'know, a few hundred scattered refraction rays |
| 18:03.38 | ``Erik | the secondaries are emitted from an origin on the primary ray. the direction is generally in a similar direction. |
| 18:03.40 | Maloeran | Updating ray sources at intersection points would be a lot faster than resolving origins for secondary rays constantly |
| 18:03.46 | ``Erik | I d'no if it's safe to say any more |
| 18:04.44 | ``Erik | but it's ok, this program I'm writing will be the thing used to prove the letter of the contract |
| 18:05.03 | ``Erik | if THEY choose to use your software stupidly |
| 18:05.05 | ``Erik | that's all ok |
| 18:05.25 | ``Erik | allz ya gotta do is the 5x adrt bit, and we have a little wiggle room to prove or disprove that |
| 18:05.26 | ``Erik | :) |
| 18:05.29 | Maloeran | I don't know if it's going to be 5 times faster if it's constrained within such a poor interface |
| 18:05.58 | ``Erik | if we can make the argument that the interface makes it impossible, but an alternate interface fixes it, we can go that route, I guess *shrug* I d'no |
| 18:08.20 | Maloeran | No ray bundling, no intelligent management of ray sources and displacements, no SSE ; it's going to crawl :) |
| 18:08.45 | Maloeran | Anyhow, we can try. |
| 18:11.29 | Maloeran | If you are going to shoot one ray at a time, at least make it rely on a callback so I can buffer up and process in batches |
| 18:11.57 | Maloeran | And the library manages threading internally, all calls should come from the same thread |
| 18:12.43 | Maloeran | ( Unless we quickly make a fix for a public blocking non-threading one-ray-at-a-time function, most inefficient ) |
| 18:14.21 | ``Erik | hopefully I'll have it functioning in a form next week |
| 18:14.39 | ``Erik | which will take maybe another week to push through the dreaded "form 1" process |
| 18:14.41 | ``Erik | to get you the code |
| 18:14.50 | ``Erik | just givin' ya a heads up :) |
| 18:15.36 | Maloeran | Or I could still write the interface without access to your code |
| 18:16.07 | ``Erik | you need teh structs |
| 18:16.19 | ``Erik | and those have to be cleared, since they're from a non-distributable source |
| 18:16.53 | Maloeran | Highly sensitive structs, eh? :) All right |
| 18:17.51 | ``Erik | I think I've appropriately cleaned them up |
| 18:18.07 | ``Erik | and it's not so much the structs as it is the comments |
| 18:18.12 | ``Erik | and variable names |
| 18:21.13 | Maloeran | Am I allowed to ask what the the getsize() and getbox() functions are for? |
| 18:21.41 | ``Erik | getsize() is the diameter (I think, maybe radius) of the bounding sphere |
| 18:21.50 | ``Erik | getbox is the bounding axis aligned cube, I think |
| 18:22.14 | ``Erik | when you get the code, it'll have the appriopriate shtuff filled in for adrt and BRL-CAD librt |
| 18:22.14 | Maloeran | I'm not quite following, what sphere and cube, what's the purpose? |
| 18:22.28 | ``Erik | not entirely sure why both are needed, actually... *shrug* |
| 18:22.35 | ``Erik | but if you have one, an estimate of the other is trivial |
| 18:23.02 | Maloeran | Fine, though I don't see the function of either at the moment :) |
| 18:23.04 | ``Erik | I know my metaball thingy primarily uses the sphere for computation, but the box for the kd-tree |
| 18:23.11 | ``Erik | well |
| 18:23.16 | ``Erik | suppose I have geometry of an unknown size |
| 18:23.21 | ``Erik | and I want to make a picture |
| 18:23.28 | ``Erik | automatically placing the camera |
| 18:23.32 | Maloeran | Oh, bounding box and sphere for the whole scene? |
| 18:23.39 | ``Erik | I have to know how big it is so I know how far away |
| 18:23.40 | Maloeran | Okay, very simple stuff |
| 18:23.46 | ``Erik | bounding for the specified geometry... |
| 18:23.55 | ``Erik | might be the whole 'scene', might be a subset... |
| 18:24.28 | ``Erik | I think the killer part you'll have to deal with, the real rough bit, is when you shoot a ray, you have to return the list of brlcad regions/components in order with in/out points |
| 18:24.59 | ``Erik | (and things like in and out normals, thickness, curvature, possibly GIFT material... ) |
| 18:25.48 | Maloeran | Rayforce will return the ordered hits, it shouldn't be too much trouble from there |
| 18:26.35 | ``Erik | getting you this code is my #1 priority at work... once you have it, you'll know how to craft rayforce to satisfy this benchmark... |
| 18:27.23 | Maloeran | I can already say that this interface will cut performance by a factor of 3-6 |
| 18:27.28 | ``Erik | heh, when trying to figure out who's gonna do some drudgework, I escaped it cuz of this... so jlo is doing the drudge instead of the tnurbs (which are considered "highly important" by money throwing fucktards) |
| 18:27.33 | ``Erik | yes |
| 18:27.34 | ``Erik | I know |
| 18:27.37 | ``Erik | and it's horrible |
| 18:28.10 | ``Erik | but adrt is under the same artificial stupid |
| 18:28.11 | Maloeran | Eheh, I'm glad to hear that :) |
| 18:28.17 | Maloeran | Right. |
| 18:28.22 | ``Erik | and if we rework the comparison, to be fair, we have to rework it for adrt, too |
| 18:28.33 | ``Erik | so, y'know, I wouldn't sweat it at this time |
| 18:28.57 | ``Erik | 5x is an arbitrary number, and we can be reasonably arbitrary in comparison |
| 18:28.58 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 18:29.45 | Maloeran | It's not like adding coherency management, SSE processing and ray bundling to adrt would be that simple |
| 18:30.14 | ``Erik | <- anal and pedantic, would have specified an interface and platform and set of specific cases and said 'total compute time' |
| 18:30.17 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I get the picture. Let's just hope it's naturally 15-30 times faster to reach that 5x thing :) |
| 18:30.22 | ``Erik | adrt has ray coherency and bundling |
| 18:30.31 | ``Erik | it's being skipped in s2 |
| 18:30.52 | ``Erik | it's stupid and wrong, ti's the equivelant of using read() and write() sending one byte at a time |
| 18:31.09 | Maloeran | Specific cases that can be solved in the native way for all raytracers would have been far preferable |
| 18:31.14 | ``Erik | any nonretard would use sendfile(), but *shrug* |
| 18:31.14 | Maloeran | Exactly! |
| 18:32.01 | ``Erik | s2 is a project I have no control over, but we go thte funding saying rayforce would make it faster |
| 18:32.39 | ``Erik | trust me, if I had permission to unfuck s2, it'd be several orders of magnitude faster and smaller right now. |
| 18:32.39 | Maloeran | So it must be faster using their akward interface we can not change, I got it |
| 18:32.44 | ``Erik | well, technically, we didn't say anything about their interface |
| 18:32.56 | ``Erik | but given the purpose, it seems like a rational starting point for comparing |
| 18:33.13 | Maloeran | Right, we can compare accuracy at least |
| 18:33.24 | ``Erik | the big reason I chose it was because libtie itself does no segment list building. you are required to build segment lists. the only adrt code that does that is in s2 |
| 18:33.31 | ``Erik | I'm lazy *shrug* |
| 18:33.42 | ``Erik | accuracy is why I'm also wiring librt into it |
| 18:34.35 | ``Erik | also; my api expects the geometry conversion to be handled by the specific rt engine... in librt, it's trivial, it's the native format. in adrt, there's an explicit tesselation pass to get triangle soup |
| 18:34.37 | Maloeran | I'm still a bit concerned about the numerical precision of my weird ray-triangle intersection tests, I look forward to having this point clarified |
| 18:34.54 | Maloeran | I'll use that same triangle soup |
| 18:34.57 | ``Erik | you might need to crib some crap from the adrt/adrt.c file |
| 18:35.44 | ``Erik | hmmm, I'm under the impression that if you're accurate within 5 digits, we're all good... but they also try to argue 64 bit ieee754/854 data being absolutely identical... |
| 18:35.56 | Maloeran | That's absurd! |
| 18:36.08 | ``Erik | so, y'know, don't sweat it, it's a political battle, and it'll be handled by lee and poor old bman |
| 18:36.21 | Maloeran | Identical results on 64 bits will never occur from different techniques |
| 18:36.38 | *** join/#brlcad cad07 (n=c90e90b1@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:36.45 | ``Erik | nope |
| 18:37.13 | ``Erik | I'm under the impression that they're trying to cover their incompetence by clinging to shit like that, but quoting 5 digits for their own folley |
| 18:37.25 | cad07 | hi |
| 18:37.28 | Maloeran | 5 digits accuracy with float is reasonable |
| 18:37.31 | ``Erik | but that's a political battle. we'll take care of it. go do good things instead |
| 18:37.35 | Maloeran | Good afternoon Lee |
| 18:38.18 | lalola | Good morning |
| 18:38.25 | Maloeran | Oh, so that's where the bzflag.bz come from |
| 18:38.40 | ``Erik | bzflag.bz is the same machine as brlcad.org |
| 18:39.24 | ``Erik | http://irc.brlcad.org/ <-- will have people joining as cad[0-9]*@bz.bzflag.bz |
| 18:40.19 | Maloeran | *nods* By the way, if the segment list building code is the algorithm I have seen on a piece of paper at SURVICE, there's room for improvement |
| 18:40.58 | ``Erik | it might be |
| 18:41.05 | ``Erik | I think twingy wrote a whitepaper on it |
| 18:41.22 | lalola | why I cant join in other channel? |
| 18:41.29 | lalola | with this cgi script |
| 18:41.43 | ``Erik | you're using the incredibly simplified java program, if you want real irc ability, use a real irc program |
| 18:42.06 | lalola | Im in a closed network |
| 18:42.07 | ``Erik | which, naturally, will depend on what OS you're using... |
| 18:42.13 | ``Erik | hrm, sucks to be you? :D |
| 18:42.17 | lalola | I already Am using proxy to access http |
| 18:42.53 | lalola | I dont work with iptables now :/ |
| 18:44.01 | ``Erik | ew, linux |
| 18:44.37 | lalola | GNU/Linux |
| 18:44.56 | lalola | I was wanting join in #debian-br ... |
| 18:46.13 | ``Erik | most java applets that emulate protocol programs (irc, ssh, etc) restrict where you can go |
| 18:46.38 | lalola | well |
| 18:49.23 | lalola | but thanks bye |
| 19:08.24 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 19:48.57 | brlcad | bzflag.bz isn't the same as "brlcad.org" -- that's an sf.net server, but irc.brlcad.org and ftp.brlcad.org are both bzflag.bz |
| 19:55.20 | brlcad | heh, complaining that our cgi:irc isn't open to any channel on the network, sounds like an asshat plea to abuse |
| 19:57.52 | brlcad | there are bounding boxes/spheres around portions of a given model -- in a given solid model, it's comprised of various distinct parts aka regions |
| 19:58.18 | brlcad | segments returned on a shotline aren't just in/out points, but id'd to identifiers for each region |
| 19:59.16 | brlcad | for each given region, the user code can put either the bounding sphere or bounding box to use for some purpose (that you generally don't care about, but have to provide those bounds regardless as part of the interface) |
| 20:01.01 | brlcad | just as an example, they might want use the bounding spheres on a set of regions to get a real fast rough volume estimate, or determine if two regions/parts even have the capacity to potentially overlap each other |
| 20:27.20 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 20:27.35 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 20:43.02 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 21:05.30 | ``Erik | Kelsey Grammer and Cary Elwes, it's gotta be god |
| 21:05.45 | ``Erik | and I'm told it's more or less right, just not as horrible as the truth o.O |
| 21:06.57 | ``Erik | holy mcfuckingshit, john mcginley, too (dr cox from scrubs) |
| 21:26.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: clean up the progress printing a little bit, remove the sed duplication and false modification report on current-year copyrighted files. ws too. |
| 21:27.04 | brlcad | ``Erik: it's pretty good, I imagine it was only worse but a good story regardless |
| 21:29.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/viewdiff.sh: header should say viewdiff.sh since it was renamed, not recheck.sh |
| 21:35.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: header cleanup |
| 21:44.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/cakeinclude.sh: obsolete script from prior build system |
| 21:45.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: obsolete script from prior build system |
| 21:47.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (3 files in 3 dirs): consistency on the (c), keep it simple |
| 21:51.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: header and footer |
| 21:52.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: header and footer |
| 21:55.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am ldAix.sh): remove obsolete ldAix.sh build helper script. it's libtool's job now. |
| 22:08.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: init var safety |
| 22:27.23 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753792.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:38.41 | Maloeran | Grah... It is amazingly hard to debate reality and cognitive perceptions with an islamist fundamentalist, it's terrible |
| 22:39.23 | Maloeran | I got to stop jumping in these debates whenever a believer joins programming channels, which strangely happens very often |
| 22:40.23 | dtidrow | heh |
| 22:40.48 | dtidrow | how do you feel about vi vs. emacs? ;-) |
| 22:41.18 | louipc | emacs makes more sense kind of |
| 22:42.09 | louipc | well, I guess I haven't gotten the feel of vi yet. emacs is more natural |
| 22:42.37 | dtidrow | I was being rhetorical |
| 22:42.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: rm -f |
| 22:43.14 | louipc | uh oh! |
| 22:44.18 | Maloeran | vim!... and nedit :) |
| 22:45.11 | Maloeran | I'm just astonished at how religious brainwashing can completely cripple reasonning capabilities, the rational mind is... completely broken |
| 22:50.58 | ``Erik | emacs is only more natural if you have cognative ability and attention spen of a mildly retarded squirrel. |
| 22:51.23 | ``Erik | pentagon wars was a decent 'nuff movie, I may send a bulk email on monday... I'm glad leebert loaned it to me |
| 22:53.28 | ``Erik | on religious brainwashing in regards to emacs vs vim... both editors are phenomenal in capability, but it's our duty to pursue extending our ability as much as we can. Yes, there is a learning curve, but the increased productivity is not dismissable. Anyone who does NOT try to learn at least one of the two seriously has the kind of shortsightedness that leads to stagnation of real ability. |
| 22:53.31 | ``Erik | IMHO. |
| 23:04.44 | *** join/#brlcad cad55 (n=4316dc41@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:05.15 | cad55 | hi |
| 23:05.30 | Maloeran | Greetings |
| 23:05.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: add support similar to that added to copyright.sh that allows the script to also work on individual files or with find. the script now also processes a backup just in case there are no changes made. |
| 23:07.15 | cad55 | I was wondering on google and saw that brlcad might feed my curiosity into the cad stuff on linux |
| 23:07.33 | cad55 | I am using a gentoo derivative, sabayonlinux, and was wondering what should i do to compile brl-cad |
| 23:08.01 | dtidrow | what exactly do you want to do with a CAD package? |
| 23:08.05 | Maloeran | If it's similar enough to Gentoo, downloading the source and compiling would do |
| 23:08.42 | Maloeran | ( You probably already have the other packages required ) |
| 23:09.16 | cad55 | ok,,I want just want to play with it and see what stuff it can do...I am fed up with windowze and tired of downloading pirated software |
| 23:09.46 | cad55 | I heard a lot about blender but it seems that it does not have cad features |
| 23:10.05 | cad55 | for example, I would like to try to model my house here in the us :) |
| 23:11.08 | cad55 | brl-cad architecture supports plugins or modules? |
| 23:11.25 | Maloeran | The user interface might be a bit lighter than what you are used to, it should be fine if you like command lines |
| 23:11.39 | Maloeran | Yet, depending on the purpose of the houes model, Blender might be more appropriate |
| 23:12.07 | Maloeran | house* model, even |
| 23:13.38 | cad55 | I see..well I kind of start to like the command line and like I said I am bored with windowze so after feedling with linux for about three years it's time for a change |
| 23:13.56 | cad55 | what would you say about q-cad and the features in brl-cad (never mind the UI) |
| 23:14.28 | louipc | cad55: I think the commands are little programs in themselves, so are all the file import functions |
| 23:15.47 | Maloeran | brlcad or Erik could probably tell you much more about CAD design and software, I'm just the guy working on the next raytracing engine |
| 23:15.49 | louipc | cad55 completely different programs, brl-cad doesn't think in terms of lines, faces, edges. |
| 23:16.26 | louipc | only solid 3d geometry |
| 23:17.50 | cad55 | can you give me just a simple example of a command to do 2d square with 20x20 -10 ofset from Z? |
| 23:17.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: prior.sh missing from dist |
| 23:17.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/prior.sh: add header and footer; embed the psql sql statement directly |
| 23:18.37 | cad55 | ok, make it 3d then if possible |
| 23:19.15 | louipc | It's been awhile since I've actually used it but I'm pretty sure you can do that in one line |
| 23:19.26 | cad55 | I mean I compiled some programs before, blacklisted drivers, troubleshooted my grubs and lilos but i woudl like to have an idea of the sintax |
| 23:20.13 | cad55 | ok, then I will give it a go and then will post the results |
| 23:20.15 | cad55 | thanks all |
| 23:20.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/prior.psql: remove the unnecessary script -- directly embedded into prior.sh now |
| 23:21.09 | louipc | did you get the MGED tutorial pdf? |
| 23:22.30 | brlcad | cad55: brl-cad's main modeler is called "mged" - there's a fairly comprehensive introductory pdf on the website (that louipc is referring to) |
| 23:23.07 | brlcad | if you're interested in a 2D modeling, there are other tools more suited (like qcad, which has features more in line with other drafting tools like autocad) |
| 23:23.46 | louipc | qcad is about the only one I know |
| 23:23.51 | brlcad | brl-cad's design is more 3D-centric similar under the hood to packages like solidworks, pro/e, and unigraphics (though with a consirably less polished user interface) |
| 23:24.21 | louipc | hehe I would love to get something other than qcad |
| 23:24.27 | louipc | maybe... |
| 23:24.34 | brlcad | the interface is quite extentible and supports plugins, as is the entire brl-cad package (contains more than 400 tools related to modeling, rendering, signal processing, etc) |
| 23:25.17 | brlcad | we have way more of the foundation needed for a drafting program than even qcad, but pretty much no GUI support for creating/editing from that approach |
| 23:25.29 | brlcad | would make a great project for someone with initiative |
| 23:25.42 | louipc | really!? that's great |
| 23:26.34 | brlcad | most of brl-cad's main deficiencies are in the GUI -- the geometry and rendering engine underneath is quite robust/stable/extensive |
| 23:27.28 | louipc | so brlcad can look at things both as pure solids as well as line, face etc..? |
| 23:28.50 | brlcad | louipc: there's support in brl-cad for creating/representing those 2D entities, though again -- very minimal gui support for doing anything with them |
| 23:28.57 | louipc | hmm I think I'll start by making a package for my distro hah |
| 23:29.16 | cad55 | I see..you have a good foundation and walls but somebody needs to still do the windows and doors :) |
| 23:29.40 | louipc | brlcad that's good I thought that the internals were only pure solids. but there is the bag of triangles... I thought there might be something behind that |
| 23:29.47 | brlcad | the support was mainly added so that for converted solid models that were modeled with sketches and extrusions, they could be converted to a suitable preserving format in brl-cad land |
| 23:30.23 | brlcad | cad55: not a bad analogy :) |
| 23:31.09 | louipc | do you think it's possible to analyse those formats to be converted into pure solid instead of bag of triangles? |
| 23:31.51 | brlcad | maybe also like, the land was purchased, foundation layed, structure in place, all materials on hand with diagrams on what needs to be done -- but only a couple builders so progress chugs along at its own pace |
| 23:32.08 | brlcad | louipc: that depends entirely on the converter being used |
| 23:32.25 | louipc | well I mean to write a converter to do that |
| 23:32.43 | dtidrow | and none of the builders are very good at finish work ;-) |
| 23:32.57 | brlcad | the dxf-g converter, for example, will bring in 2D entites as brl-cad 2D entities (not triangles) |
| 23:33.08 | brlcad | though that's a relatively recent feature addition |
| 23:33.11 | louipc | I notice solidworks can import an IGES file and it asks if you want 'feature recognition' |
| 23:33.31 | brlcad | alas, IGES is dying |
| 23:33.36 | louipc | then it seems to do some real nice work |
| 23:33.52 | louipc | oh? what's the next big thing? |
| 23:34.27 | brlcad | STEP |
| 23:35.20 | brlcad | that's our next major converter task .. monumental task to say the least, one of the most complex formats to ever be created -- but it's an ISO standard and pretty much fully replaces IGES |
| 23:35.30 | louipc | ah yeah that's the ISO one |
| 23:36.00 | louipc | customers will send my company either IGES or Parasolid models though |
| 23:36.08 | brlcad | that's a task that's going to take several man-years to implement fully |
| 23:36.31 | louipc | I looked at STEP ages ago but I don't see anyone using it, I like the idea though |
| 23:36.36 | brlcad | nothing preventing anyone from taking the existing iges importer and improving it though |
| 23:37.04 | louipc | yea, except being too busy ;) |
| 23:37.21 | brlcad | step has been under development for a few years, but only starting to take off within the past couple -- slow adoption, but IGES is dead so it is pretty much guaranteed to eventually occur |
| 23:37.54 | louipc | yeah |
| 23:51.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (header.sh footer.sh): add recognition of python |
| 23:52.49 | louipc | CIA-5 is showing us the TODO list? |
| 23:54.36 | brlcad | CIA shows actual commits to the source code as they happen |
| 00:00.49 | louipc | ah that's neat |
| 00:04.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: recognize arbitrary script exec identifier lines, regardless of /usr/bin, /bin, etc |
| 00:06.28 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 00:06.28 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 00:10.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/ (6 files): apply the standard header and footer, more to come |
| 00:11.37 | louipc | compiling... |
| 00:12.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/ (bench.c bench.h main.c): standard header and footer |
| 00:50.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 2 dirs): standard header and footer cleanup |
| 00:51.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (68 files in 4 dirs): standard header and footer cleanup |
| 00:53.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (35 files in 9 dirs): standard header and footer cleanup |
| 00:59.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/patch/ (pull_comp.sh pull_solidsub.sh): add bsd headers to helper scripts |
| 01:12.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: header cleanup, happens to be a sun file, so integrate the bsd-style license proper. |
| 01:26.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ap.c: |
| 01:26.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: dept of energy is part of the u.s. government and while there ability to claim |
| 01:26.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: copyright back in '89 is dubious, since they are government they can fall under |
| 01:26.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the same significant conversion and copyright assignment conditions that was |
| 01:26.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initially required. so either way, the header can be cleaned up. |
| 04:46.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (364 files in 14 dirs): ugh, what tedium. put some effort towards cleaning up the doxygen labels and making the headers more consistent. also exclusively using @ for doxygen instead of \ to try to keep things more consistent. |
| 05:52.08 | louipc | still at it eh? |
| 06:49.01 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 06:49.08 | brlcad | the work never ends |
| 06:55.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_wood.c: header cleanup |
| 06:58.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/turb.c: header cleanup |
| 06:58.35 | louipc | do you have a list of third party packages required for building and running brlcad? |
| 07:03.49 | brlcad | all required all included as part of the distribution |
| 07:03.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_solve.c: implicit assignment |
| 07:03.57 | brlcad | they're in the src/other directory |
| 07:04.47 | brlcad | by default, they are only compiled if a suitable system 3rd party package is not found, though you can force compilation of individual ones on/off |
| 07:05.16 | louipc | ah ok that's handy |
| 07:05.17 | brlcad | e.g. --enable-everything will tell configure to not have any external dependencies |
| 07:05.48 | brlcad | plus, there's a report at the end of configure that itemizes |
| 07:05.58 | louipc | because a lot of other apps make you go fetch other packages elsewhere that you need |
| 07:06.13 | brlcad | yep |
| 07:06.34 | brlcad | that's been a long-standing position of the project since its inception to specifically not *require* that |
| 07:07.24 | brlcad | we give you everything you need (except a compiler and shell of course) |
| 07:08.32 | louipc | hehe, I wonder if I should still include it in a dependencies list for a distro package |
| 07:09.31 | brlcad | ah, for packaging, it's usually best to just make most of them dependencies |
| 07:12.57 | louipc | what is java used for? |
| 07:13.00 | brlcad | presently cannot do that for tcl/tk due to path lookup issues, and there are a couple dependencies that aren't in all the packaging systems (like the newly added openNURBS, which you can ignore) |
| 07:13.27 | brlcad | you can fully ignore java, sdl, and python |
| 07:13.35 | louipc | ah still in dev? |
| 07:13.36 | brlcad | they are simply API bindings |
| 07:13.48 | louipc | ok |
| 07:13.56 | brlcad | not critical and actually not used by anything we ship |
| 07:14.36 | brlcad | adrt will auto-disable due to sdl and python (and that's perfectly normal) |
| 07:20.17 | brlcad | for a dependencies list, probably zlib, png, jove, regex, termlib, and utah raster toolkit and the autotools if you want it to prep the build system from scratch (autoconf 2.52+, autoconf 1.6+, libtool 1.4.2+) |
| 07:21.02 | brlcad | though the autotools are certainly optional from a source tarball |
| 07:22.41 | louipc | yeah |
| 07:23.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/raydebug.tcl: bsd header |
| 07:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: Questionable whether they actually hold copyright or are simply being given credit. declare the more flexible bsd terms for now. |
| 07:33.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtermio/ (termio.c termio_win32.c): add missing lgpl header |
| 07:41.29 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/main.c: missing header |
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| 07:47.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ (7 files): add missing headers, bsd license |
| 07:52.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (points.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl expand_comb.tcl): add missing header/footer |
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| 20:11.56 | louipc | hmm |
| 20:13.18 | brlcad | indeed |
| 20:38.10 | louipc | I should join the devel mailing list I guess |
| 20:38.40 | brlcad | noise fluctuates massively .. might go months without a message, and then two dozen in a day |
| 20:38.45 | brlcad | depends on the topic and what's going on |
| 20:38.53 | louipc | hehe not bad |
| 20:40.04 | louipc | what are the brl-cad data resources supposed to be? |
| 20:40.49 | louipc | just the README files eh? |
| 20:41.11 | brlcad | they are mostly the documentation and tclscripts (much of mged's functionality) |
| 20:41.46 | louipc | I get an error that they can't be found even though it's looking in the correct path |
| 20:41.55 | louipc | but mged still seems to function |
| 20:42.22 | brlcad | on windows or elsewhere? |
| 20:42.30 | brlcad | on windows it's a red herring |
| 20:42.56 | brlcad | elsewhere indicates some tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidgets issue usually |
| 20:43.45 | louipc | linux |
| 20:44.03 | louipc | yeah I also get a tk not found in the brlcad/lib dir |
| 20:44.16 | louipc | but it was compiled to use the system's lib |
| 20:45.26 | brlcad | that would be why you get the error |
| 20:45.43 | brlcad | i mentioned that there are pathing issues with tcl/tk using system libs still |
| 20:45.48 | brlcad | not major, but annoyances like that |
| 20:45.55 | brlcad | haven't been cleaned up |
| 20:46.26 | louipc | ah right |
| 20:46.54 | brlcad | feel free to look into them and fix them! :) |
| 20:47.10 | louipc | hehe I'm not at that stage yet |
| 20:47.14 | brlcad | the gentoo, freebsd, debian, ubuntu, and fink folks would love you ;) |
| 20:47.23 | louipc | though I really would be glad to |
| 20:47.29 | louipc | ;) |
| 20:47.58 | brlcad | we've got a pending integration on several of those systems that isn't into stable simply because of the tcl/tk issue |
| 20:52.09 | louipc | yeah I'm trying to package it for archlinux |
| 20:52.46 | brlcad | cool |
| 20:52.47 | louipc | it seems to work OK for now |
| 20:53.02 | brlcad | 'benchmark' runs? |
| 20:53.11 | louipc | yea |
| 20:53.18 | brlcad | (careful, it'll create a lot of files in current dir) |
| 20:53.25 | louipc | I noticed hehe |
| 20:53.53 | brlcad | I should add a cleanup transcript for it |
| 20:54.31 | louipc | or stick them into /tmp? |
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| 16:09.14 | brlcad | just about finished with all of the updates for the new license terms |
| 16:19.13 | brlcad | all documentation that was previously gfdl/gpl dual licensed is being simplified to the bsd documentation license |
| 16:20.41 | brlcad | all gpl binary code is changing to the lgpl to facilitate conversion/migration of application code to libraries (which may only be lgpl) |
| 16:20.53 | brlcad | COPYING will have all the details, but wanted to give a heads up |
| 16:28.10 | ``Erik | it's all assigned copyright so'z ya don't gotta go through the legwork of getting everyones written ok, right? |
| 16:28.27 | brlcad | that's right |
| 16:29.08 | brlcad | which is also why that constraint was required |
| 16:29.48 | brlcad | s/was/is/ |
| 16:34.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): |
| 16:34.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: define the BRLCADBUILD preprocessor symbol |
| 16:34.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: remove misleading multibyte-character support |
| 16:38.52 | brlcad | I created the BSD Documentation License, based off of the FreeBSD Documentation License -- which basically is just using project agnostic terms like what is used in the BSD License and not being specific to SGML |
| 16:41.54 | ``Erik | ? |
| 16:43.16 | brlcad | rossberg's commit |
| 18:12.01 | Maloeran | http://www.getafirstlife.com/ |
| 18:12.38 | Maloeran | Parody of that Second Life thing, for those who really aren't into games |
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| 21:59.09 | louipc | hahaha |
| 01:13.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1348 files in 82 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 01:13.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Sweeping license updates. Documentation is fully relicensed to the BSD |
| 01:13.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Documentation License (a minor variant of the FreeBSD Documentation License and |
| 01:13.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: BSD License). All GPL code (mostly application code) is converted to the LGPL |
| 01:13.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and now also specifically declares version 2.1, revoking the blank check to the |
| 01:13.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: FSF. The intent of these sweeping changes are to simplify the licensing terms |
| 01:14.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and increase overall flexibility of use, both externally (to users for their |
| 01:14.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (409 files in 16 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 01:14.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Sweeping license updates. Documentation is fully relicensed to the BSD |
| 01:14.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Documentation License (a minor variant of the FreeBSD Documentation License and |
| 01:14.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: BSD License). All GPL code (mostly application code) is converted to the LGPL |
| 01:14.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and now also specifically declares version 2.1, revoking the blank check to the |
| 01:14.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: FSF. The intent of these sweeping changes are to simplify the licensing terms |
| 01:14.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and increase overall flexibility of use, both externally (to users for their |
| 01:16.27 | ``Erik | O.O |
| 02:10.42 | Maloeran | Confirmed by Mark, they did look into non-immigration visas too. Oh well, I guess it's time to get that degree paper thing |
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| 10:02.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/libregex/libregex.dsp: |
| 10:02.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: not a BRL-CAD core library |
| 10:02.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: remove misleading multibyte-character support |
| 10:04.43 | clock_ | What does -a mean in pix-png? It seems to not have a manpage. |
| 10:05.01 | clock_ | Turn upside down? Or 16-bit input? |
| 10:07.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.dsp: |
| 10:07.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: ignore opennurbs_zlib_memory.cpp in win32-msvc build |
| 10:07.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: we do not need the openNURBS wrapper functions zcalloc() and zcfree() since we're just letting zlib do it's own thing |
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| 11:49.46 | brlcad | noir:~ morrison$ man brlcad/src/util/pix-png.1 | grep autosize -a autosize the input file to determine file image height and width |
| 11:56.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: write up a summary of the recent sweeping license changes. i.e. describe gpl->lgpl and gfdl/gpl->bdl as well as the motvations, impact, and intent. |
| 11:56.39 | brlcad | basically -a means "try to figure out how big the file is", which is only useful if your image has "standard" common dimensions and it guesses correctly. |
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| 14:08.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:45.20 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 17:21.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Java Partition objects now include entrance and exit surface normals |
| 17:49.39 | clock_ | lol Java |
| 17:49.48 | clock_ | and BRL-CAD goes downhill too :) |
| 18:15.39 | Maloeran | Woah, there's a Java interface for librt o.O |
| 18:17.43 | Maloeran | Ah yes, it's for MUVES of course |
| 18:19.33 | Maloeran | Don't worry clock_, I'll try not to let anyone write a Java interface for the new raytracer :) |
| 18:24.38 | brlcad | clock_: that's been in there for several years, jni wrapper to a subset of librt |
| 18:26.07 | brlcad | Maloeran: good luck -- that's actually the next generation muves 3 there that uses the jni interface, not muves-s2 |
| 18:26.49 | brlcad | but then with that interface, there's a *lot* more room for flexibility and marshalling of data in and changing/defining the api |
| 18:27.28 | brlcad | that's certainly not on this year's agenda I'd have to guess though |
| 18:27.57 | Maloeran | brlcad, it's just that it implies performing the "shading" in Java ; which, as you know, will make performance collapse |
| 18:50.47 | ``Erik | the 'shading' being done in the C variant has no performance, so there's a possibility that a java version may be faster... |
| 18:51.12 | ``Erik | not the one actually being worked on, but *A* version might be... |
| 18:51.13 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 19:34.09 | Maloeran | Erik, can I "safely" assume floats are always 4 bytes and doubles 8 bytes? ( flipping endianess of floats between nodes ) |
| 19:36.14 | Maloeran | It checks if the floating point encoding is the same between the platforms of course, but I'm wondering if different widths exist |
| 19:50.21 | ``Erik | I don't think the C spec makes any assertion on width of float or double? |
| 19:50.47 | ``Erik | hm, k&r is showing bunches of different bitwidths for, uh, ... all C types |
| 19:51.14 | ``Erik | I can't think of a machine that doesn't use 32 and 64 bits ieee754/854 for float and double |
| 19:51.23 | ``Erik | a modern one, that is |
| 19:51.42 | ``Erik | I mean, the honeywell 6000 used 36 and 72 |
| 19:55.58 | Maloeran | Ahah, cool. |
| 19:56.23 | Maloeran | I know that C doesn't garantee anything on floating point datatypes, but I still need to flip bytes somehow |
| 19:56.59 | Maloeran | I was wondering if some arch could have used 8 and 16 bytes floats/doubles, or the same width for both, etc. |
| 19:57.23 | ``Erik | ieee754 is the standard that describes bit packing and width |
| 19:57.50 | ``Erik | mebbe, I saw mention of "half precision" floats using 16b that might be going into ieee754 |
| 19:57.55 | ``Erik | and quad precision with 128b |
| 19:58.42 | ``Erik | um, intel, amd, and ibm/ppc are all ieee754 fpu equiped... |
| 19:59.10 | Maloeran | I have alternative paths to handle non-ieee floats anyhow, it's just the width I was wondering about |
| 19:59.36 | ``Erik | (bear in mind, intel 386's usually came without an fpu, you have to shove in an x387 or get a 386dx for fpu hw, otherwise the c compiler faked it... common availability ofa n fpu is still pretty new) |
| 19:59.49 | ``Erik | if it's not ieee754, then all bets are off on width |
| 20:01.55 | Maloeran | It still requires storage in memory somehow, so it's likely to be some 2-4-8-16 bytes wideness |
| 20:02.17 | ``Erik | most machines are these days... several were 36 bit words |
| 20:04.05 | ``Erik | hrm, looks like the cell uses ieee... at least, they say it supports their rounding modes |
| 20:04.27 | ``Erik | and since ibm has the modules for ieee754 for their ppc's, I can't see them not reusing it |
| 20:05.02 | Maloeran | It's really just the width I was concerned about, non-ieee is already handled |
| 20:05.20 | ``Erik | I'm going to imagine that for the target hardware, it's ok to make those assumptions |
| 20:05.36 | Maloeran | The graph preparation code plays right in the binary representation of floats/doubles, if it's IEEE |
| 20:05.42 | ``Erik | ieee specifies widths, so it's all good |
| 20:05.43 | Maloeran | Right, thanks |
| 20:06.22 | ``Erik | damn this code is retarded :/ |
| 20:07.04 | Maloeran | Are you working on the raytracing comparison framework? |
| 20:07.09 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 20:08.12 | ``Erik | loading a 'geometry' file in this thing involves setting up a new tcl interpreter, shoving crap into it, then deleting it... instead of using the one already running |
| 20:08.30 | Maloeran | Strange... |
| 20:08.44 | Maloeran | By the way, did Lee obtain the leave to complete his doctorate or not? |
| 20:08.59 | ``Erik | it's still being looked at, heh |
| 20:09.33 | ``Erik | someone had an ego writing this thing, too |
| 20:09.49 | ``Erik | mebbe I should start doing that... struct mything_s *erik; |
| 20:10.00 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 20:11.02 | Maloeran | Have you considered stepping up to take Lee's place, if he leaves? I think you said you weren't interested |
| 20:12.34 | ``Erik | <-- just a lowly db2, that's a db4 position |
| 20:12.58 | ``Erik | also; I've pissed off the fucktards in mgmt as much as anyone else |
| 20:13.22 | Maloeran | At the indian restaurant in Baltimore, Lee said he was looking for a competent person to take his place if he leaves, and he would gladly give it to someone like you |
| 20:13.40 | Maloeran | Though I don't know, I'm not too aware of what's going there |
| 20:21.31 | ``Erik | heh, there's political bs in the way *shrug* |
| 20:21.56 | ``Erik | plus I d'no think I'd be interested in ever doing what he does... meetings and ties ain't mah thang |
| 20:24.15 | dtidrow_work | what a heretical idea... ;-) |
| 20:28.35 | ``Erik | blah->destructor(blah); stinks, I'd rather see blah_destructor(blah); :/ |
| 20:29.16 | Maloeran | Unless that destructor varies a lot based on the state of "blah", a function pointer does the job then |
| 20:32.17 | ``Erik | blah is malloc'd, so you'd have to free() it after calling that destructor (or declare it on the stakc and pass &blah, which'd be much neater) |
| 20:32.18 | ``Erik | imma rewrite all this shit in lithp one of thethe dayth |
| 20:33.24 | Maloeran | By the way, is that blocking one-ray-at-a-time interface threaded? In that design, I would somewhat need an arbitrary pointer per thread to keep track of state on a per-thread basis... |
| 20:34.00 | Maloeran | Single threaded, globals would do I guess |
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| 20:35.25 | ``Erik | I was hoping to talk to lee about extending the interface to allow bundled shtuff |
| 20:35.45 | ``Erik | and maybe feeding that back to the codemonkeys on the retarded side of the fence |
| 20:35.55 | ``Erik | but he's out today |
| 20:37.40 | Maloeran | Bundled, non-blocking with callbacks, letting me do the threading would be nice. An interface allowing intelligent management of ray sources and displacements would be a blessing |
| 20:38.11 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I'll try to make up something that works no matter the interface you give me |
| 20:39.00 | ``Erik | *shrug* the sales pitch was about integrating it into a specific program, so I'm gonna give you as close to their interface as I can |
| 20:39.21 | ``Erik | changing it much is going to get them up in a knot and either fighting it or not using it |
| 20:54.25 | brlcad | the initial approach of getting it working with the interface that is already in place, for better or worse, is still the best first step for various reasons |
| 20:55.45 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 20:55.59 | ``Erik | this code makes me want to run away o.O |
| 20:56.36 | brlcad | adding non-blocking callbacks to librt might be the next step, showing how it would change interaction with librt .. get them to understand/adopt those changes |
| 20:57.28 | brlcad | now how non-blocking results would actually be beneficial to the various algorithms the other codes are using is where I could easily see there being big problems |
| 20:58.28 | ``Erik | their fundamental design is very serial and it hasn't aged well :/ |
| 20:58.50 | brlcad | it makes sense for a ray intersection engine to answer asynchronously, but then ray-tracing in general can trivially compute asychronous as most of the computations are pretty much independent |
| 20:59.48 | brlcad | their design isn't independent, just about everything depends on something else, very serial, very much a "how thick is this region" and they can't really ask any more questions or do anything without guessing blinding until they get that answer |
| 21:01.59 | brlcad | part of it is their design, but part of it is also the domain and approach of the algorithms (which predominantly is neither their responsibility or in their domain of expertise to be designing) |
| 21:02.56 | ``Erik | <-- thinks it could be just as parallelizable as raytracing if it were described in terms of shading opposed to what they do now |
| 21:03.06 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 21:04.00 | ``Erik | yeah, each ray would be a fair bit heavier to compute, but if ya shoot 10,000 non-interacting primaries, it should theoretically scale linearly on a 10,001 cpu machine |
| 21:04.32 | brlcad | it probably could be, it correlates closely for some interactions |
| 21:05.23 | brlcad | but you don't convince someone riding a bike about the benefits of driving a car by trying to force them into the seat and telling them how much their bike sucks ;) |
| 21:05.53 | brlcad | there's plenty of downsides (from their perspective) that are entirely relevant |
| 21:06.01 | Maloeran | Quite right, slaming a car door in his face is so much more effective :) |
| 21:06.17 | ``Erik | mal: your bike sucks |
| 21:06.18 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:06.27 | dtidrow_work | who's 'they', btw? |
| 21:06.38 | brlcad | brl-cad's primary user |
| 21:06.54 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:06.55 | brlcad | the vulnerability/lethality analysis developers |
| 21:07.05 | ``Erik | heh, "vlad" |
| 21:07.15 | ``Erik | dealing with the current crop sure does suck the life out of ya |
| 21:07.20 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 21:07.25 | Maloeran | Non-blocking sure would be nice, but especially, processing of rays in batches |
| 21:09.37 | brlcad | sure, Maloeran .. but when their entire problem-space is for a given algorithm is just a handful of dependent rays (done over and over, with dependencies at each step) .. it's like telling someone that's eating a salad at a local diner that they could have a much bigger salad if they bought in bulk at the local sams club |
| 21:09.59 | ``Erik | s/analogies/ ... |
| 21:10.01 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:10.01 | brlcad | they simply wouldn't care .. at all .. no matter how many heads of lettuce they can get for a buck |
| 21:10.07 | Maloeran | Yes, I got the idea. If they need to know A before doing B, and B before doing C ; we should process 50000 A rays, followed by 50000 B and C |
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| 21:10.40 | ``Erik | we get the same issue (sorta), mebbe WORSE in the "hall of mirrors" scenario |
| 21:11.16 | brlcad | they can be convinced to change their shopping and eating habits, but that's a long-term issue frankly pretty much outside the scope of the project |
| 21:11.32 | Maloeran | If we imagine global illumination where rays bounce around constantly, we don't want to follow one single ray until the end |
| 21:11.56 | Maloeran | We could process the first hit for 4000 rays, second hit for the same bouncing 4000 rays, etc. |
| 21:12.28 | ``Erik | for optical, that's fine.. |
| 21:12.45 | ``Erik | but, y'knw, if an optical ray hits glass, you shoot two secondaries and mix the result |
| 21:12.51 | ``Erik | they shoot several hundred |
| 21:13.27 | Maloeran | I would have used probabilities to decide which way it goes, but that works too |
| 21:13.50 | ``Erik | (but that's ok, they could do those several hundred in parallel, and they could do all their primaries in parallel) |
| 21:13.53 | ``Erik | y'know, if they chose to |
| 21:14.23 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 21:14.39 | Maloeran | So the problem could be re-engineered, but it's not going to happen so we have to handle individual blocking rays. All right |
| 21:15.25 | brlcad | this is like the bi-weekly bitch-fest isn't it? |
| 21:15.34 | ``Erik | oh yeah |
| 21:15.45 | ``Erik | if I gotta deal with their code, you'll hear me go off. |
| 21:16.00 | ``Erik | and I gotta deal with their code. |
| 21:16.08 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 21:16.41 | brlcad | you know, nobody really disagrees -- and it's not even a new idea to question the way they do what they do and point out how it could/should be better .. been that way for decades |
| 21:17.13 | brlcad | but it's mostly pointless, or at least impractical without actually working hand-in-hand with them for weeks to make a change happen (and that just isn't going to happen either anytime soon) |
| 21:17.14 | Maloeran | I realize you are tired of hearing it over and over, when you can't do much about it |
| 21:17.23 | ``Erik | I know, and that's why everyone on the second floor is doing what they're doing |
| 21:17.33 | brlcad | right, and that worked out great |
| 21:17.43 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:17.44 | ``Erik | but, y'know, they're wrong, everyone's a moron, only I'm right :D *duck* |
| 21:17.54 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 21:18.22 | ``Erik | (my award winning attitude, that's why all the users adore me :D ) |
| 21:19.34 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: ``Erik's public lynching is next week, right? ;-) |
| 21:19.35 | brlcad | attitude did more to the performance than java or the architecture itself ever did |
| 21:19.56 | ``Erik | at least thte activity of exploration into what the old software does and why, with the documentation... that's a good thing.. a step in the right direction. when that's done, maybe an appropriate replacement can be started |
| 21:20.52 | ``Erik | the architecture when viewed from orbit seems ok, up close it's ... nonoptimal |
| 21:22.04 | ``Erik | probably a combo of too many people working on it too early and too much "ooh shiney" without the opportunity to assess and fix (or remove) some mistakes |
| 21:22.05 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:22.22 | ``Erik | *gripebitchcomplain* |
| 21:23.43 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: nah, he does enough to torture himself by not speaking out (at least tactfully) when it matters .. but then he's also partially escaped the sphere of influence so he doesn't have to be involved as much |
| 21:23.56 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:24.50 | brlcad | riight, you're about as tactful as a box of tacks |
| 21:24.58 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:25.03 | ``Erik | trained attack tacks |
| 21:25.10 | dtidrow_work | rofl |
| 21:28.12 | Maloeran | As Caligula Ceasar walked among his lowly people anonymously, what a difference it would make if a manager were to listen here. He could even claim the ideas to "fix" these doomed projects were his own |
| 21:33.00 | Maloeran | Erik, do you have any idea if Lee had plans for me after this task? No need to ask him, I'm just wondering because SURVICE apparently plans to keep me busy |
| 21:33.03 | brlcad | not likely, because it's still not taking all the considerations into account that all become part of the issue.. mitigation of risks, not just doing things for academic purity (who the f*ck cares if it's not perfect, it does the job and does it well), the time/money/resources it would take to change it in a major way, documenting the new approach, *validating* that you really are 100% sure you didn't F-something up (the are-you-willing-to-bet-y |
| 21:34.58 | ``Erik | mal: I'm sure he does, whether or not he can execute them is nto necessarily in his power... and competent coders aren't exactly a common beast, if they can figure out how to make money off of you, they'll try to do it *shrug* |
| 21:35.34 | ``Erik | once ya got a little paid experience on your cv, it's not hard to stay working *shrug* |
| 21:36.27 | Maloeran | Well sure, SURVICE has plans. I would personally prefer to work with you guys somehow, if you are fine with that |
| 21:36.48 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't have any say in anything, one way or the other *shrug* |
| 21:37.10 | brlcad | if you had a specific task in mind, that would make selling a point a whole lot easier -- I have several in mind myself that I could raise |
| 21:37.50 | ``Erik | hm, the an/fsq-7 was kinda big |
| 21:38.17 | brlcad | que? |
| 21:39.10 | ``Erik | old computer, 2000m^2 floor space (half an acre) |
| 21:40.03 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:40.05 | ``Erik | and wifi to boot |
| 21:42.23 | brlcad | Maloeran: the next thing I'd think would be cool to try and implement would be 1) a global illumination renderer using your tracer as a basis and 2) try to apply the same evaulation approach directly to implicit geometry |
| 21:43.16 | brlcad | and perhaps 3) a variety of shaders maybe implementing the renderman shader interface |
| 21:43.42 | ``Erik | heh, to see how bad bmrt's butt can get whupped? :D |
| 21:44.07 | brlcad | maybe for starters :) |
| 21:44.51 | Maloeran | brlcad, the whole raytracer was initially designed to solve high-performance global illumination, so I would be very interested in that |
| 21:45.07 | brlcad | at the order of magnitude he's got, if it could be sustained, he could even potentially give some of the big names a run for their money |
| 21:45.14 | Maloeran | It's really designed for that problem specifically. Though I wonder, what use would that be for the ARL? |
| 21:45.28 | ``Erik | making pretty pictures? |
| 21:45.39 | brlcad | Maloeran: signal processing, signatures, pretty pictures, pretty animations, etc |
| 21:46.24 | ``Erik | adrt has "rise" for path tracing, and it cooked a good bit of cpu time here for pretty pictures :) |
| 21:46.26 | brlcad | add support for multispectral energies and you can suddently generate real radar, infrared, microwave images |
| 21:47.01 | Maloeran | All right. SURVICE wants traversal of tetrahedron graphs with per-tetrahedron ray refraction implemented too |
| 21:47.06 | brlcad | rise was very much brute force, but very much "sells the cake" because the results look great |
| 21:47.19 | brlcad | ew |
| 21:47.20 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, and radiated energy distribution (like figuring out cell phone coverage, for example) |
| 21:47.28 | brlcad | sounds finite elementish |
| 21:47.54 | brlcad | i bet that's exactly what they want it for actually .. hm |
| 21:48.07 | ``Erik | per-tetrahedron ray refraction? O.o |
| 21:48.20 | Maloeran | It's to handle refraction of lasers mounted on aircrafts, going through layers of air of different density and temperature |
| 21:48.25 | Maloeran | It refracts the rays a bit |
| 21:48.27 | ``Erik | ah |
| 21:48.37 | ``Erik | interesting way to cope with atmospherics |
| 21:48.52 | Maloeran | It's rather nice, I hesitated for a very long time between a sector graph and a tetrahedron graph, so I'll be able to try the second way |
| 21:49.04 | brlcad | that same technique can be used to propagate energies and forces, it's the basics of FEA |
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| 23:24.12 | Maloeran | *yawn* Urgh, I didn't sleep well last night because I was too emotionally moved by the "death" of HAL-9000 in "2010: The year we make contact" |
| 23:24.23 | ``Erik | heh, dork |
| 23:25.49 | ``Erik | I'm dorky, too, though *shrug* read mccarthy's "the robot and the baby" |
| 23:26.17 | ``Erik | http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/robotandbaby.html |
| 23:26.28 | Maloeran | I haven't read that one, thanks |
| 23:26.36 | ``Erik | it's very short |
| 23:28.21 | ``Erik | (in case you're not brushed up, mccarthy was a move and shaker in the 50's and 60's with ai stuff... he was also the guy who axiomed the notion of programming computers and discovered lithp, invented things like function declarations and conditionals in programming, etc) |
| 23:28.21 | Maloeran | Thinking about it, it's really weird to have even more altruistic feelings towards AIs than humans |
| 23:28.42 | ``Erik | aiomized |
| 23:28.45 | ``Erik | axiomized |
| 23:29.13 | Maloeran | Ah I see, thanks. I was mixing names with Clarke |
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| 23:57.34 | ``Erik | The C programming language requires that all memory be accessible as bytes, so C implementations on 36-bit machines use 9-bit bytes. |
| 23:57.35 | ``Erik | neat |
| 23:57.59 | ``Erik | (and a testament to how untrustworthy C's types are) |
| 23:58.21 | brlcad | the sticky bit |
| 00:02.17 | ``Erik | simh doesn't seem to support the old 704 :/ |
| 00:06.51 | ``Erik | huh, ancient sumer used base 6 math, and that's why our arbitrary day time crap is in multiples of 6 (60, 24) |
| 00:10.23 | ``Erik | http://www.marginalpeople.com/base%20six.html |
| 00:11.17 | ``Erik | DAMN simpsons for making me learn!!! |
| 00:17.20 | *** join/#brlcad buttdude (n=cfd26a68@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:19.33 | louipc | did they only have six fingers or something? |
| 00:22.12 | ``Erik | heh, I think they did it all on one hand |
| 00:22.14 | ``Erik | with no concept of 0 |
| 00:22.23 | ``Erik | so closed fist is 1, ... |
| 00:22.35 | ``Erik | <-- points at the url |
| 00:23.07 | ``Erik | was watching simpsons, skinner made a comment about finally being able to buy math books without base six stuff... so I had to g00gle |
| 00:23.09 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:01.14 | brlcad | heh, i think i remember that episode |
| 01:01.28 | brlcad | is that the cromulent one? |
| 01:08.16 | ``Erik | no, the one where the dogs gonna die from a twisted stomach |
| 01:23.33 | brlcad | ahh yeah |
| 02:02.20 | Maloeran | ``Erik, I really thought they used a base of 12 |
| 02:05.43 | *** join/#brlcad Rangar (n=dave@203.118.156.252) | |
| 02:06.46 | Maloeran | Woah, what are you doing here Hal? :) |
| 02:07.01 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 02:07.34 | Rangar | Mal; I'm here to whip you guys in to shape ;) |
| 02:08.01 | ``Erik | I d'no if this is the right place for that kinda weirdassed kink |
| 02:08.06 | ``Erik | also; none of us are sheep. |
| 02:08.48 | Rangar | hahaha |
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| 15:48.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add another X11 test to verify that the X11 library is actually linking in. |
| 15:57.54 | brlcad | that's not evil! |
| 16:13.05 | brlcad | hm.. that's odd -- the test fails, but _XNewModifiermap is in /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a |
| 16:19.19 | ``Erik | on some machines, xmkmf goes funky so it doesn't build the X_LIBS variable right |
| 16:19.31 | ``Erik | rhel64 is a prime example |
| 16:20.08 | brlcad | i'm not complaining, as I'd been trying to find an x11 test that correctly fails on os x |
| 16:20.47 | brlcad | the base system provides headers and stub libs that effectively all work .. except at run-time, any X11 call causes a crash |
| 16:21.07 | brlcad | I hunted/tested dozens |
| 16:21.16 | ``Erik | urm, "a crash"? |
| 16:21.34 | brlcad | yeah, app would crash on the x11 call |
| 16:21.54 | ``Erik | erm, does it matter if X11.app is running? |
| 16:22.18 | brlcad | that's what I mean, a system that doesn't have x11.app (it's not installed by default on some/most/new systems) |
| 16:22.32 | brlcad | but it does have the headers and libs so everything links |
| 16:22.38 | ``Erik | ah |
| 16:22.54 | brlcad | what's odd is that your link test for _XNewModifiermap fails |
| 16:23.11 | ``Erik | could always test if uname is darwin and hunt for X11.app *shrug* |
| 16:23.15 | brlcad | but it actually is in the library, at least I see it in nm |
| 16:24.35 | brlcad | i was entirely trying to avoid a system-specific test |
| 16:24.35 | ``Erik | hm, does the X_LIBS line look decent? |
| 16:24.35 | brlcad | yeah, looks right: X_LIBS='-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 ' |
| 16:24.35 | ``Erik | hrm, *shrug* |
| 16:24.41 | ``Erik | mebbe something to poke on after lunch... ya working from home today? |
| 16:26.00 | brlcad | noir:~/brlcad morrison$ nm -g -o /usr/X11R6/lib/* 2>/dev/null | grep _XNewModifiermap |
| 16:26.04 | brlcad | /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a:ModMap.o: 000001ae T _XNewModifiermap |
| 16:26.29 | brlcad | from home all week |
| 16:27.29 | brlcad | again, I'm not complaining.. I need/want the test to fail :-) .. it's just entirely non-obvious why it's failing (which might mean it'll fail somewhere it shouldn't) |
| 16:28.20 | ``Erik | hum |
| 16:28.39 | ``Erik | (is nm an alias for otool -t?) |
| 16:28.49 | ``Erik | or, -T, rather |
| 16:29.27 | brlcad | er, not really .. it's the traditional nm |
| 16:30.05 | ``Erik | you got both my cphone # and lees, right? so you can verify dest once we figure it out? if you want to grab lunch... |
| 16:30.18 | brlcad | ah, I just ate |
| 16:30.22 | ``Erik | aight |
| 16:30.27 | ``Erik | *shrug* later, dude :D |
| 16:30.30 | brlcad | later |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: restructure the X11 checks so that if --without-x11 is provided, all of the |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: associated x11 checks are also disabled as well so we don't waste time testing |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: for things that will not be used. similarly, don't auto-add /usr/X11R6 to the |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: search paths or add the extra restart paths unless we're in automatic or yes |
| 17:21.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: mode |
| 17:49.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: similarly disable all the java checks if we're --without-java |
| 18:00.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 18:00.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: clarify the license detail that this particular file, as part of the build |
| 18:00.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: system, is BSD licensed. the lgpl was used before since this file is often |
| 18:00.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: encountered first, but instead use the correct header and include a note about |
| 18:00.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: how the license applied, referring to COPYING for more details. |
| 18:30.37 | ``Erik | ahhhh |
| 18:41.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: similarly disable opengl/wgl checks if they are disabled via arg |
| 18:49.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add an entire new section for documentation, listing various documents that are written or planned. include notes and status for some that are already completed but perhaps not yet in CVS |
| 19:16.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: stray " |
| 19:33.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: copyright was acquired (by non-gov't) and later assigned to the government prior to open sourcing. remove old clause |
| 19:37.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_grip.c: seems to be a header that didn't update correctly -- accept implicit assignment of copyright via former brl-cad agreement, while retaining authorship details even though GSI is sadly now defunct. |
| 19:45.12 | ``Erik | http://www.mirrorimage.com/air/page04.html |
| 19:49.54 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: any good at diagnosing X11 problems? |
| 19:50.05 | dtidrow_work | or anybody else, for that matter |
| 20:13.09 | ``Erik | what kinda 'problems'? |
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| 20:20.15 | Maloeran | Ahah, online software engineering degrees are so depressing. Introduction to Unix, HTML, XML, SQL, Basic, .NET? What the... |
| 20:24.27 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: it's dying deep down in an X call - XrmStringToQuark |
| 20:24.27 | dtidrow_work | segfaulting |
| 20:24.59 | Maloeran | I thought I knew Xlib, but I don't remember seeing that function |
| 20:25.00 | dtidrow_work | which is about 13 call levels removed from the top X call :-\ |
| 20:25.23 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: I'm guessing its very deep down in the bowels of xlib |
| 20:26.25 | dtidrow_work | this seems to be rather old code, so the libs may have changed enough to break previously valid assumptions |
| 20:28.05 | ``Erik | huh, is the string being passed to it legit? |
| 20:28.58 | dtidrow_work | can't tell - no decent debug info available that deep down |
| 20:29.49 | ``Erik | hum, can't set a breakpoint at it and look at the argument? |
| 20:30.01 | Maloeran | *nods* It shouldn't segfault unless the address passed to it is unreadable |
| 20:30.13 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: nope, afaict |
| 20:30.52 | dtidrow_work | I can change the stack frame to that calling function, but there's no debug info at all available |
| 20:30.59 | dtidrow_work | at least with the libs I have installed |
| 20:31.26 | dtidrow_work | meaning I can't see the function arguments |
| 20:31.41 | Maloeran | What's this code you are running? Do you have the source code? |
| 20:31.43 | ``Erik | there's only one argument, it'll either be on the stack or a register (depending on os and arch) |
| 20:31.59 | ``Erik | once you have the address, any debugger SHOULD be able to look at it |
| 20:32.08 | ``Erik | or you can see if it even makes sense |
| 20:32.25 | ``Erik | if you happen to know where heap and stack tend to be on that os/arch |
| 20:32.46 | dtidrow_work | gdb on x86 |
| 20:33.01 | dtidrow_work | linux/x86, that is |
| 20:33.04 | ``Erik | linux and fbsd are pretty different there with function call convention, last I looked |
| 20:33.06 | ``Erik | aight |
| 20:33.39 | ``Erik | iirc, linux/x86/gcc likes to try to do a register fill with arguments before jumping o.O |
| 20:33.59 | ``Erik | but my info might be outdated or just plain wrong, not exactly something I muched with much |
| 20:34.01 | Maloeran | Arguments are passed on the stack on x86/Linux |
| 20:34.18 | ``Erik | oh, fully on the stack? mebbe I'm thinking syscalls (int 0x80) |
| 20:34.38 | ``Erik | ok, so examine the stack, find the ptr you want, ... |
| 20:34.45 | dtidrow_work | yeah, there aren't too many available registers with x86 :-\ |
| 20:35.20 | ``Erik | there are 8 gp registers.. but, uh, none of them are actually general purpose :( |
| 20:35.32 | dtidrow_work | here's the call stack: |
| 20:35.35 | dtidrow_work | #0 0x05c1c731 in XrmStringToQuark () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 |
| 20:35.35 | dtidrow_work | #1 0x005ad1cb in XtSetTypeConverter () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.35 | dtidrow_work | #2 0x003021a3 in _XmRepTypeInstallConverters () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3 |
| 20:35.36 | dtidrow_work | #3 0x0027f31d in _XmRegisterConverters () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3 |
| 20:35.36 | dtidrow_work | #4 0x0030e926 in _XmScreenRemoveFromCursorCache () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3 |
| 20:35.36 | dtidrow_work | #5 0x005b37c5 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.38 | dtidrow_work | #6 0x005b37f7 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.39 | Maloeran | Ah, it's all on the stack. On Linux amd64, it's rdi, rsi, rdx, rcx, r8, r9 ; xmm[0..5], xmm12, xmm13 |
| 20:35.42 | dtidrow_work | #7 0x005b37f7 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.50 | dtidrow_work | #8 0x005b3c91 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.52 | dtidrow_work | #9 0x005b3f86 in _XtCreateHookObj () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.54 | dtidrow_work | #10 0x005b447b in _XtAppCreateShell () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.58 | dtidrow_work | #11 0x005e0e93 in XtVaAppCreateShell () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:35.58 | dtidrow_work | #12 0x005e1342 in _XtVaOpenApplication () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:36.00 | dtidrow_work | #13 0x005e148e in XtVaAppInitialize () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 |
| 20:36.02 | dtidrow_work | #14 0x08050e7b in setupWindow (argc=@0xbfde44e0, argv=0xbfde4564, model=0x82d65f0) at main.cc:96 |
| 20:36.04 | dtidrow_work | #15 0x08050f94 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfde4564) at main.cc:121 |
| 20:36.19 | dtidrow_work | indeed - x86_64 is much better with regards to registers |
| 20:36.22 | ``Erik | yeah, that's a backtrace, no the stack... it's generated by mixing 3 different things and throwing away a good bit of data... |
| 20:36.45 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: yeah, I liked MIPS |
| 20:36.57 | dtidrow_work | pity SGI pissed away their lead... |
| 20:37.11 | ``Erik | heh, I was just reading about that earlier, x86-64 is no longer the name, intel has officially changed the name to be amd64, since it's a reimplementation of amd64's ISA... |
| 20:37.34 | Maloeran | I thought Intel opted for x64 |
| 20:37.50 | ``Erik | jra was asking me why his x86-64 desktop started calling itself amd64 |
| 20:37.55 | Maloeran | Microsoft refers to the architecture as x64, the open-source world refers to it as amd64 |
| 20:37.56 | dtidrow_work | intel had it as EM64T, or something like that - just to avoid having to call it amd64 :-) |
| 20:38.17 | dtidrow_work | last I heard, anyway |
| 20:38.37 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EM64T |
| 20:38.53 | dtidrow_work | it's essentially intel's clone of amd64, though :-) |
| 20:39.10 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: seems to be failing in the app setup, which takes several strings... passing any command line args? might try changing them and/or making sure something's not wrong with the input |
| 20:39.28 | dtidrow_work | AMD had better get its act in gear - Core is kicking Athlon a** |
| 20:40.03 | ``Erik | XrmStringToQuark() shouldn't care what the string is as long as it's well formed... it LOOKS like a basic symbol table dealie |
| 20:40.05 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: tried that - dies elsewhere due to a differently formatted data file |
| 20:40.30 | brlcad | the fact that it's crashing deep isn't as important as it crashing at XtVaAppInitialize() from the app's perspective |
| 20:41.10 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: and I'm pretty much an AMD fan as well, esp. the Opterons with their distributed memory architecture |
| 20:41.15 | brlcad | that's one of the very first x calls it's probably making.. is the xserver actual running? :) |
| 20:41.40 | dtidrow_work | ;-) |
| 20:41.44 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:42.04 | ``Erik | heh, 'cept half the time, silly questions get answered with "oh, uhhhh.... n/m" |
| 20:42.17 | Maloeran | dtidrow_work, I wouldn't say these Core Duo are quite stomping Opterons. You can't even put two of the chips on the same motherboard |
| 20:42.27 | brlcad | well, I've seen even the most experienced dev try to kick off X11 apps from a Mac Terminal, localhost, forgetting to set display and/or xhosts |
| 20:42.35 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: that one was one step removed from 'is the power on?' |
| 20:42.39 | brlcad | so not entirely unheard of |
| 20:42.51 | ``Erik | hum |
| 20:42.54 | ``Erik | don? is the power on? |
| 20:42.57 | Maloeran | Plus, Opterons are ahead in the very important performance/cost ratio |
| 20:42.57 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:43.39 | ``Erik | but intels chips are the ones being picked up by h^Hdell and apple |
| 20:44.04 | Maloeran | I thought Dell had switched to AMD, or perhaps it was HP |
| 20:44.19 | dtidrow_work | they did, then the Core came out... |
| 20:45.08 | dtidrow_work | the Core's perform better than equivalently-priced Athlons (apparently) |
| 20:45.16 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: another possibility.. linking in the wrong library |
| 20:45.31 | brlcad | rather suspicious that it's the first Xt call |
| 20:45.52 | brlcad | ldd show anything useful? |
| 20:46.07 | dtidrow_work | I was looking at that, but don't have any experience with straight X11 stuff |
| 20:46.58 | brlcad | how about just the basics.. ldd the binary and see if there are any 64-bit's being mixed with 32-bits and vice-versa |
| 20:47.16 | dtidrow_work | well, I compiled the binary, and I don't have a 64-bit capable system |
| 20:47.24 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 20:47.30 | brlcad | depends on the OS and compiler |
| 20:47.31 | dtidrow_work | my thoughts exactly |
| 20:47.37 | brlcad | some will let you |
| 20:47.44 | brlcad | and just crash at run-time |
| 20:47.48 | brlcad | (fun) |
| 20:47.53 | ``Erik | linux/x86/gcc, I think the rtld at least has the decency to check there |
| 20:47.57 | dtidrow_work | not gcc/linux, in my experience |
| 20:48.10 | brlcad | yeah, but I wasn't making assumptions ;) |
| 20:48.16 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:48.24 | brlcad | so this is linux |
| 20:48.24 | ``Erik | brlcad: I asked him his platform earlier.. :D |
| 20:48.30 | brlcad | ah, i missed that |
| 20:50.33 | brlcad | erm, you compiled this yourself but can't step through in gdb? |
| 20:50.55 | Maloeran | The libraries must not have debugging symbols I guess |
| 20:50.57 | dtidrow_work | not that deep in the X libs |
| 20:51.05 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: exactly |
| 20:51.11 | brlcad | sure, but again that's fairly irrelevant |
| 20:51.26 | dtidrow_work | I've got the params to XtVaAppInitialize |
| 20:51.34 | brlcad | from the app's perspective, something is wrong with the XtVaAppInitialize() call inputs or something that preceeds it |
| 20:51.40 | dtidrow_work | ddd'ing it now :-) |
| 20:51.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:51.51 | ``Erik | gui dork |
| 20:52.04 | brlcad | ddd has pretty struct graphs |
| 20:52.21 | dtidrow_work | nice data displays, too |
| 20:52.55 | dtidrow_work | ah, same thing |
| 20:53.20 | ``Erik | but it's been over 10 years :( |
| 20:53.31 | brlcad | ``Erik: it did :) |
| 20:53.31 | dtidrow_work | for ddd? yikes |
| 20:53.49 | brlcad | i last used ddd about that long ago too |
| 20:53.55 | brlcad | (at least seriously) |
| 20:54.10 | Maloeran | Ah, I was writting my first lines of code 10 years ago |
| 20:54.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:55.09 | dtidrow_work | k, 'fess up |
| 20:55.13 | dtidrow_work | how old? |
| 20:55.19 | ``Erik | 24 yrs since my first line of cbm basic2.0 |
| 20:55.29 | Maloeran | Ahah, woah |
| 20:55.31 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 20:55.42 | ``Erik | or, wait, no |
| 20:55.49 | ``Erik | that was on a coleco adam |
| 20:55.50 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: so about 50, eh? ;-) |
| 20:56.19 | Maloeran | So now Erik can say he has been coding from before I was born |
| 20:56.35 | ``Erik | heh, no :D awz a young'n when I got my first machine... and, uh, it's not like you could run down the street to the software store in '83 |
| 20:57.11 | dtidrow_work | yeah, remember those days - had to type programs in from 'Compute' magazine :-) |
| 20:57.45 | ``Erik | uh huh, my dad bought a coleco adam and a book called "games apples play" that was just listing after listing of trivial basic programs |
| 20:57.56 | ``Erik | some of 'em worked without modification on the adam |
| 20:59.00 | ``Erik | oh, I had buck rogers on cassette, too, and a few others |
| 20:59.19 | Maloeran | Eheh, cool |
| 21:01.29 | Maloeran | I had a C compiler and source code from Autocad. I think learning to code would have been easier with some kind of book or reference |
| 21:09.32 | dtidrow_work | from XtVaAppInitialize man page: "XtAppInitialize and XtVaAppInitialize have been superceded by XtOpenApplication and XtVaOpenApplication respectively." |
| 21:09.54 | dtidrow_work | interesting - maybe I just need to change the code to this |
| 21:15.20 | ``Erik | amusing... amazon is selling this book from between $250 and $450 used... but the entire book is available as a pdf for free on the authors website |
| 21:15.34 | ``Erik | (On Lisp - Paul Graham) |
| 21:16.03 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:44.18 | dtidrow_work | well, I'll have to futz with this more at home.... |
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| 23:40.23 | Rangar | phew, oh boy |
| 23:43.27 | brlcad | indeed |
| 23:45.48 | ``Erik | toxic flatulence? |
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| 02:00.59 | Rangar | yo erik, brl |
| 02:04.15 | Maloeran | The ia32 and amd64's shl and shr instructions only consider the lower 5/6 bits for logical shifts ; does anyone know if C garantee correct behavior if I were to shift an int32_t by 32? ( clearing it to zero ) |
| 02:06.02 | Maloeran | Ah there it is, undefined behavior as usual |
| 02:10.01 | Rangar | see, now if it had ben in C++ ;) |
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| 04:08.50 | louipc | greetings |
| 06:03.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: whoops, that was just testing on the opt/optimized. go ahead and add an alias for enable-opt anyways. |
| 06:06.12 | brlcad | yo |
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| 10:38.40 | brlcad | ``Erik: interestingly enough, the x11 linking test works correctly on an os x that does have X11 installed, so *shrug* .. don't care (at this point) why it's not clear why it "works" on a default os x config.. |
| 10:39.14 | brlcad | it at least works as one would hope, so good enough |
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| 21:19.12 | dtidrow_work | anybody awake here? |
| 21:30.19 | Maloeran | If you have a question, you better just ask away |
| 21:31.55 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:32.34 | dtidrow_work | remember my X problem from yesterday? well, I compiled the program in question on a different box, and it works fine there :-\ |
| 21:32.47 | dtidrow_work | exact same code |
| 21:33.31 | Maloeran | Any signifiant differences in the libraries each box is loading? |
| 21:33.47 | ``Erik | ssooooo something is foobarred with your X install or something under that... different X install? different kernel? different hw? checked md5sums if it should all be the same? |
| 21:33.49 | Maloeran | ( with ldd ) Assuming you want to find out what the problem is |
| 21:34.44 | dtidrow_work | haven't analyzed what the differences are yet - spent the time actually using the program for what I dl'ed it for :-) |
| 21:36.07 | dtidrow_work | weird thing is that I haven't had a problem running just about any other type of X11-based app |
| 21:39.44 | Maloeran | I'm tempted to believe that the software is doing something wrong, not the X libraries |
| 21:41.49 | ``Erik | mal: I'm already getting requests from other groups here for your source so they can start building their apps against it O.O |
| 21:42.25 | Maloeran | Really? Hrm, I'm not sure how to react to that |
| 21:42.27 | ``Erik | <-- gonna let leebert take care of all that, though, some possible recipients are contractors... |
| 21:42.38 | Maloeran | If they want to use the native API, be my guest |
| 21:42.57 | ``Erik | that's what they want... to see if the api is close enough to what they think they want |
| 21:43.08 | Maloeran | Oh, neat |
| 21:44.00 | ``Erik | but I'm not gonna make the call to just shovel your stuff over, I'll let someone who makes more than me assume the risk o.O :) |
| 21:44.18 | Maloeran | I think it's too early still, though |
| 21:44.33 | Maloeran | Some features of the API are incomplete or untested |
| 21:45.00 | dtidrow_work | Maloeran: the fact that the code compiles/works okay on another box would indicate (to me at least) that the problem is in the X libs on this box |
| 21:45.16 | Maloeran | I'm still working on the major features before cleaning up the details, and testing all possible combinations of settings and features |
| 21:46.07 | Maloeran | dtidrow_work, code can appear to run correctly in some circumstances while still being faulty |
| 21:46.27 | dtidrow_work | hmmm, I wonder if there's some issue with the compiler - FC4 uses gcc4 by default, but I also have gcc3.2.3 installed here, so could try that and see if there's still a prob |
| 21:46.33 | Maloeran | The fact that all the other X software runs fine makes me believe the program might be to blame |
| 21:47.08 | ``Erik | *shrug* maybe his look at your api could help you focus your api and feature set, it's good having people look at your ideas and comment on 'em, as long as they're logical comments... doesn't mean ya blindly do what they say, though... just listen and consider :D *shrug* |
| 21:47.27 | dtidrow_work | but the function params look fine, afaict |
| 21:47.30 | Maloeran | Erik, I'm all for people having a look at the API and ideas! |
| 21:47.50 | Maloeran | It's just that if people are going to use the library already, I got some clean up and bits of code to do |
| 21:47.54 | ``Erik | if it was the user app feeding xlib bad data, xlib should return an error so the app can appropriately respond. segging down in the bowels isn't cool |
| 21:48.17 | ``Erik | I mean, if you called read() with a bad file id, you'd want it to throw you an error ssaying it's a bad id, not panic the kernel |
| 21:48.27 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 21:48.47 | Maloeran | Erik, could you keep me informed if anyone is going to use the library? I could use 2-3 days before then to complete and test various pieces of code |
| 21:49.44 | ``Erik | sure, I won't get to talk to lee about it until tomorrow, I think... then to either get him cvs access or prepare a tarball, that might not be until monday or tuesday at the earliest? *shrug* |
| 21:49.48 | Maloeran | And write a proper demo of the library, not something quickly hacked together for testing purpose |
| 21:50.02 | ``Erik | and the first thing he's gonna do is look at your installed headers |
| 21:50.17 | ``Erik | (otherwise, he has to try to hack adrt/libtie into what he wants) |
| 21:52.37 | Maloeran | I don't really "clean up and polish" before all the more fundamental code is done |
| 21:52.43 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:52.51 | dtidrow_work | does anybody? ;-) |
| 21:53.28 | ``Erik | *shrug* his current goal is just to look at the headers to use the library to see if it supports (and exposes) the fundamental notions he needs |
| 21:53.54 | Maloeran | Okay. RT/rt.h is what he needs |
| 21:54.06 | Maloeran | Plus the very long Doxygen page describing the API in details |
| 21:54.50 | ``Erik | if I get someone else to approve it, I'll try to remember that just those two things are needed for him at the first step :) |
| 21:55.18 | ``Erik | (since two seperate contracting agencies are involved, I wanna do some cya...) |
| 21:55.32 | Maloeran | Some "cya"? |
| 21:56.06 | ``Erik | 'cover your ass' |
| 21:56.26 | Maloeran | Oh :) |
| 21:56.43 | ``Erik | if I gave him the code, then your employer sued me, it'd make me a sad panda |
| 21:56.48 | Maloeran | Hum, I got to write Doxygen doc for the RT_EXT_MULTIPLE_HITS extension, I think that's something they would want |
| 21:57.40 | Maloeran | Well, I own copyright on the code and it's to be covered by a GPL license. I don't think anything could happen |
| 21:58.03 | ``Erik | hm, I think he wants iterative trace capability... the overhead of that might be more expensive than just shooting the ray all the way through and only using what ya care about, though *shrug* |
| 21:58.35 | Maloeran | The API is defined to be a generic, flexible and efficient raytracing API independant on the underlying engine... so additional features are exposed by extensions, OpenGL-style |
| 21:59.08 | Maloeran | It's iterative but can return more than one hit per callback |
| 22:02.49 | Maloeran | You can tell him to look at rtirenderblend4sse.c for the transparency demo with multiple hits per ray, SSE optimized |
| 22:03.12 | Maloeran | or rtirenderblend.c for the scalar non-SSE version |
| 22:05.40 | ``Erik | mebbe next week :D |
| 22:34.20 | brlcad | erm, gpl would be highly problematic if it's going to the parties I believe it'll be going to |
| 22:34.32 | brlcad | not only highly problematic, but an outright non-starter for some |
| 22:37.04 | brlcad | any library that used your library in anything other than linking to a dynamic library at runtime would be subjected to gpl clauses, and there are still issues with dynamic libs too |
| 22:37.11 | Maloeran | Oh? Well, if needed, a copyright holder can release under any other license I guess |
| 22:37.24 | Maloeran | I'm sorry, I should have said LGPL |
| 22:37.33 | brlcad | ah, that's entirely different :) |
| 22:37.48 | brlcad | no problems then |
| 22:38.42 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:43.21 | dtidrow_work | pretty sure brlcad has a file ;-) |
| 22:43.40 | dtidrow_work | oops, shouldn't have said that.... |
| 22:45.42 | louipc | haha |
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| 00:08.57 | ``Erik | stupid fucking snow |
| 00:13.15 | Maloeran | So you bought your bicycle already! I know how you feel |
| 00:16.20 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:16.21 | ``Erik | no |
| 00:16.27 | ``Erik | it went blizzard style while I was driving |
| 00:17.21 | ``Erik | so I was trying to navigate twisty hilly backroads with an inch of fresh powder (unsalted roads), a jackass tailgating me, and summer tires on 1.75 tons of grossly overpowered steel |
| 00:17.40 | ``Erik | oh, and visibility of ~10m at some points |
| 00:18.29 | ``Erik | took me over an hour to get home :/ and the first half our of it was ok, full speed... (usual travel time of 35-40 minutes) |
| 00:18.36 | ``Erik | so that last 5-10 minutes took half an hour or so |
| 00:19.36 | Maloeran | Eheh. That's a long way from work, spending 10% of one's conscious life in a car driving |
| 00:20.03 | ``Erik | yeah... it is |
| 00:20.37 | ``Erik | however; it's pleasantly relaxing, it gives my brain something fairly simple to focus on so it can change gears from the bs of work |
| 00:20.44 | Maloeran | Can you work from home some/most days? |
| 00:20.53 | ``Erik | not unless I filled at forms and got approved |
| 00:21.09 | Maloeran | It could be worth the time investment |
| 00:21.16 | ``Erik | twinky was approved for 3 days a week, I just havne't gotten to the paperwork |
| 00:26.13 | Maloeran | I'm a bit annoyed by how buying 3 dual-dual-opterons is about the same price as one octo-opteron |
| 00:27.42 | Maloeran | The extra circuitry in 8 ways Opterons sure is costly, the motherboards too |
| 00:27.42 | dtidrow_work | octo-opteron meaning eight actual chips, or four dual-core Opterons? |
| 00:27.42 | Maloeran | Four dual-core |
| 00:29.28 | dtidrow_work | depending on the type of workload, having a single quad dual-core system might still be the best way to go |
| 00:29.50 | Maloeran | Yes, clearly. Gigabit will saturate with distributed raytracing on 3 boxes of 4 cores |
| 00:30.12 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 00:30.51 | dtidrow_work | are there any eight socekt Opteron mobo's out there? |
| 00:31.43 | Maloeran | Yes, haven't really looked into these |
| 00:32.11 | dtidrow_work | http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/APEXX/apexx8_overview.asp - drool.... |
| 00:34.31 | Maloeran | To scale properly on such boxes, we will have to store a copy of the graph in the memory bank of each processor die |
| 00:35.04 | Maloeran | Graph & geometry, of course |
| 00:35.50 | Maloeran | Any recommendation, Erik, (2or3)*dual-dual or quad-dual? |
| 00:36.09 | Twingy | numaPIC |
| 00:36.35 | Maloeran | Yes! Highly scalable processing for PIC |
| 00:38.07 | Maloeran | Perhaps a motherboard with multiple gigabit ports would almost scale, one per processing node |
| 00:39.57 | Maloeran | Infiniband cards are somewhat expensive, but that would be fun to play with |
| 00:47.55 | Twingy | you should see if mellanox has a hardware implementation of tcp/ip to allow for > 1.1Gb on their infiniband |
| 00:48.29 | Twingy | they mentioned they might be working on a next gen card in 2004 |
| 00:49.00 | Twingy | Maloeran, you can always buy a 10Gb PCI Express NIC for alot less |
| 00:49.32 | Maloeran | Can't get a price on these without contacting them, tsk |
| 00:49.54 | Maloeran | That generally means "out of my budget" :) |
| 00:51.00 | Twingy | $750 a card |
| 00:51.11 | Twingy | $3k for an 8 port switch |
| 00:51.19 | Maloeran | That's about what I saw elsewhere |
| 00:52.08 | Twingy | a PCI Express to PCI Express card would be useful |
| 00:52.15 | Twingy | with a ribbon cable |
| 00:52.40 | Twingy | writing a driver for that would be a snap |
| 00:53.19 | dtidrow_work | interesting idea |
| 00:53.53 | Twingy | I could probably make one on my CNC mill |
| 00:54.08 | Twingy | just a double sided PCB really |
| 00:54.50 | Twingy | won't get much faster than that |
| 00:55.12 | Maloeran | I think I'll just start slowly with two dual-dual-opterons on gigabit, I'll grow my home cluster over the months |
| 00:55.48 | Twingy | you should take one class at a university |
| 00:56.00 | Twingy | then you will get university account and access to infinite computing resources |
| 00:56.29 | Twingy | I have a bazillion computers at my finger tips at njit |
| 00:57.16 | Maloeran | I see :) |
| 00:57.33 | Twingy | http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dansdata.com/images/cmoy/dcin280.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dansdata.com/cmoy.htm&h=174&w=280&sz=15&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=U0FzNIGLlOw2EM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDC%2BInput%2BJack%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN |
| 00:59.03 | Twingy | every time I eat macaroni and cheese I get gas, hrmph |
| 01:00.39 | dtidrow_work | Twingy: tinyurl.com - for future reference ;-) |
| 01:01.37 | Twingy | what's a matter your web browser 8-bit or something? |
| 01:02.00 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 01:02.19 | dtidrow_work | just more convienent |
| 01:06.59 | Twingy | Maloeran, you could install two gigabit cards and expand the socket buffer in the kernel |
| 01:07.10 | Twingy | then plex across the two |
| 01:07.35 | Twingy | that should scale almost linearly |
| 01:08.04 | Maloeran | Right. I don't think the bandwidth would saturate if high-level results ( pixels or so ) are transfered |
| 01:08.21 | Twingy | adrt run smooth on 100Mb |
| 01:08.29 | Twingy | across 8 nodes |
| 01:08.32 | Maloeran | Pixels or raw intersection results? |
| 01:08.40 | Twingy | compressed pixels |
| 01:08.52 | Twingy | on gigabit I don't compress |
| 01:09.24 | Maloeran | Ah. 1024*768*3, 2.5mb per frame, 40 frames per second for 100mb/s. -> Gigabit is almost filled up |
| 01:09.42 | Twingy | tried compression? |
| 01:10.03 | Twingy | I had decent success with libz |
| 01:10.19 | Maloeran | Yes I noticed |
| 01:10.34 | Maloeran | I haven't used compression, I still got stuff to complete in graph state synchronisation between nodes |
| 01:11.07 | Maloeran | I'm just saying that theorically, 3 boxes of 4 cores would saturate the gigabit |
| 01:11.15 | Twingy | I'm so happy, my shrink tube came today |
| 01:11.25 | Maloeran | Shrink tube? |
| 01:11.28 | Twingy | I've been making cables galore, this triton Jr rocks my socks off |
| 01:11.37 | Twingy | yes, it shrinks when you heat it |
| 01:11.47 | Twingy | I have a 1500W heat gun I bought for $19.95 somewhere |
| 01:11.59 | Twingy | the triton outputs banana |
| 01:12.15 | Twingy | so I made a banana to j-type, banana to banana, banana to dc jack, and banana to deans is in the mail |
| 01:12.56 | Maloeran | Is the final objective related to rocketry, robotics? |
| 01:12.58 | Twingy | I can charge lithium polymer, lead acid, nickel metal hydrides, and nickel cadmiums |
| 01:13.07 | Twingy | both actually |
| 01:13.13 | Maloeran | Ah, neat |
| 01:13.25 | Twingy | an aerial platform for testing my rocketry electronics |
| 01:13.42 | Twingy | I just burnt $650 on getting back into r/c planes |
| 01:13.51 | Twingy | I'm all tooled up |
| 01:13.53 | Maloeran | Eheh, I saw the picture yes |
| 01:14.20 | Twingy | I'm going to convert half the basement (the unfinished part) into my rocket and r/c workshop |
| 01:14.36 | Twingy | and leave the garage for making parts and boards |
| 01:15.05 | Twingy | until I build my shed out back |
| 01:15.09 | Maloeran | I see, sounds good. I almost assumed you had enough room in the garage |
| 01:15.12 | Twingy | either this summer or next |
| 01:15.26 | Twingy | I don't have the garage temperature controlled |
| 01:15.31 | Twingy | (yet) |
| 01:15.33 | Maloeran | Ah yes, good point |
| 01:15.42 | Twingy | soldering in sub zero temperatures is tricky |
| 01:15.47 | Maloeran | ;) |
| 01:15.51 | Twingy | and I'm not heating the garage while it's not insulated |
| 01:16.30 | Twingy | 3 more gcam releases and it's back to rocketry |
| 01:16.46 | Twingy | next one should be tonight or tomorrow |
| 01:17.34 | Maloeran | I'm vaguely planning to build some kind of home cluster over the months/years, I think I'll need that when I'm ready to get back into AI |
| 01:19.15 | Twingy | buying computers sucks you dry >_< |
| 01:19.43 | Twingy | nice thing about the tools I'm buying is they won't be obsolete for a good 15 - 25 years |
| 01:20.20 | Twingy | all I'm missing is the $2500 lathe |
| 01:20.27 | Maloeran | Eheh, indeed. Unfortunately, I have no other need or interest than computer hardware |
| 01:21.01 | dtidrow_work | unless you pick up used computers |
| 01:21.18 | Twingy | hard to build next gen algorithms on obsolete hardware |
| 01:21.20 | Maloeran | I already got my cluster of amd-k6 and Pentium 2, I need an upgrade ;) |
| 01:21.30 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 01:21.47 | Twingy | especially "timing" related ones |
| 01:22.51 | dtidrow_work | well, for 'home' clusers... |
| 01:23.16 | dtidrow_work | you generally take what you can get :-) |
| 01:23.31 | Twingy | I speant almost two hours writing this yesterday: *(int *) &_f = (t&0xff000000)>>24|(t&0x00ff0000)>>8|(t&0x00007f00)<<8|(t&0x000000ff)<<23|(t&0x00008000)<<16; } |
| 01:23.41 | Maloeran | That's what I did.. but my overclocked desktop beats the other 6 boxes combined |
| 01:23.49 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 01:24.14 | Twingy | converts big endian PIC floats to little endian IEEE 754 floats |
| 01:24.15 | Maloeran | Twingy, a weird partial byte swapping? |
| 01:24.22 | Maloeran | Oh I see |
| 01:24.30 | dtidrow_work | PIC floats? |
| 01:24.33 | Twingy | for the autopilot |
| 01:24.39 | Twingy | microchip floats |
| 01:24.45 | Twingy | exponential, sign, mantissa |
| 01:24.47 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 01:24.54 | Twingy | where IEEE754 is mantissa, exponent, sign |
| 01:24.55 | dtidrow_work | that PIC :-) |
| 01:25.45 | dtidrow_work | haven't played with those in years (PICs, that is) |
| 01:25.56 | Twingy | I use them religiously at work now |
| 01:26.58 | dtidrow_work | IIRC, they have an 'interesting' machine architecture |
| 01:27.10 | dtidrow_work | Twingy: for what? |
| 01:28.07 | Twingy | all sorts of stuff |
| 01:28.21 | Twingy | autopilots mainly |
| 02:06.22 | ``Erik | <-- probably woulda loaned ya some of the junk ya may've needed for r/c's... |
| 02:24.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 02:24.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add support for arbitrary matrix transformations to torus primitive .. while |
| 02:24.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: there's certainly question on what this means to the mathematics of the implicit |
| 02:24.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: form (they're no longer mathematically a torus), the underlying modeling |
| 02:24.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: capacity is still needed and storing a transformation matrix or at least scaling |
| 02:24.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: vectors in the primitive (or above the primitive) would go a long way to |
| 02:24.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: handling this somewhat unique case. |
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| 03:07.26 | ``Erik | wee, squashed and skewed torii |
| 03:09.18 | ``Erik | kith style, crrrushink your torus! crrrushink your torus! |
| 03:11.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (axis.c font.c symbol.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given vector |
| 03:22.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative vector values |
| 03:30.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add additional helper macros MAT_DELTAS_(ADD|SUB|MUL)(_VEC)? for modifying the translation elements (3, 7, 11) in a 4x4 transformation matrix |
| 03:30.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/pl-dm.c util/plrot.c rt/do.c rt/read-rtlog.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative vector values |
| 03:31.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (common.c kurt.c tube.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given vector |
| 03:31.55 | brlcad | mm.. pure donuts |
| 03:34.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c edsol.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given vector |
| 03:34.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (rtif.c usepen.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative vector values |
| 03:36.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: s/NUL/MUL/ typo |
| 03:44.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add similar MAT_SCALE sibling macros for adding, subtracting, and multiplying the scaling elements just to be consistent |
| 03:48.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: elements_per_mat is a square of elements_per_plane |
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| 05:15.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (14 files in 14 dirs): |
| 05:15.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: since the pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex files are now in CVS, disable the CLEANFILES |
| 05:15.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: directive that deletes them. now that they're sorted.. if they're different, |
| 05:15.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the cvs update notice should be significant now that they're sorted |
| 05:15.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: consistently. |
| 05:29.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (30 files): allow the import function transformation matrix argument to be NULL, use an identity matrix in that situation. |
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| 07:50.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (copyright.sh indent.sh): sanity checking - don't care if configure.ac is readable, just see if it exists |
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| 08:49.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: skipping |
| 09:01.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: sorta support filenames with spaces (the for loop will still choke) |
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| 14:34.05 | ``Erik | brlcad: lunch... japanhouse... the usual time... |
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| 16:03.50 | brlcad | hm, that means I'd need to shower |
| 16:06.35 | ``Erik | dot... dot... dot... |
| 16:20.45 | dtidrow | heh |
| 16:20.56 | dtidrow | just getting around to too, eh? |
| 18:21.04 | ``Erik | seems he decided against shorting |
| 18:21.06 | ``Erik | showering |
| 18:21.17 | ``Erik | osake was sugoii ii desu ne |
| 18:44.47 | ``Erik | heh, damn I'm lame, I had to babelfish that one |
| 18:45.33 | ``Erik | (but... you're in agreement? I didn't think you drank? so how would you know if sake is very good?) |
| 18:46.55 | Maloeran | Oh :), just provided an unintelligible answer to a question with the same attribute |
| 18:47.23 | Maloeran | Feel free to keep me informed on any interface talk |
| 18:47.43 | ``Erik | lee gave a thumbs up, I told him where to snarf it |
| 18:48.00 | Maloeran | What did he approve exactly? |
| 18:49.10 | ``Erik | full access, and I told him the name of the person he should talk to at the place the cvs repo machine is, as well as your handle and this channel |
| 18:49.18 | ``Erik | ummm, his nick was like "joevalley" or something I think? |
| 18:49.32 | Maloeran | I don't remember seeing that |
| 18:50.10 | ``Erik | ok, the grammar and ordering is all out of whack for sure on this, but think english order/grammar... |
| 18:50.25 | Maloeran | Understood :) |
| 18:50.43 | Maloeran | I don't like commiting half-way done code |
| 18:50.48 | ``Erik | out of curiousity, how would the well formed sentence be structured? :D |
| 18:51.13 | ``Erik | well, 'half done' is a necessicity, just try not to compile in a "broken" state |
| 18:51.58 | Maloeran | But theres's nothing new to see or test if the new code isn't completed |
| 18:52.30 | Maloeran | Though the bit-packed graph cache is a bit better, not a single bit wasted now |
| 18:52.33 | ``Erik | nothing at the user level, of course, but I tend to read your commits and try to understand what and why |
| 18:52.39 | ``Erik | and where you're going |
| 18:53.25 | ``Erik | and I'd rather read a book made of sections, chapters and paragraphs than a single long stream :D |
| 18:53.49 | ``Erik | so my poor feeble brain has time to grasp the meaning before moving on |
| 18:54.03 | Maloeran | Okay :), give me a day or two and I'll commit |
| 18:54.27 | Maloeran | One of the reasons I don't like commiting early is that there are big blocks of personal notes, comments that would make no sense to other people, right in the code |
| 18:54.36 | Maloeran | Sometimes using a mix of french and english |
| 18:54.51 | ``Erik | <-- works frequent commits into his development mentality, so not seeing it is alien |
| 18:54.57 | ``Erik | but I'm a dork like that |
| 18:55.49 | ``Erik | I don't care if it's in french while you're working on it, as long as teh end product is coherent to me... :D if nothing else, when people want to know how progress is going, I can at least say "it's progressing" if I see commit traffic |
| 18:55.52 | Maloeran | It's just that I put my thinking process as raw comments in the code, so it's heratic ; and the comments take the way out when the code is done |
| 18:56.34 | Maloeran | Okay, 1-2 days and I'll commit |
| 18:56.53 | ``Erik | heh, if you codified your thinking process via repository history, then others can look at the history and gain some understanding into your process and why you made your decisions, no? :D |
| 18:57.27 | Maloeran | That would imply taking time to write comments that could make sense to anyone else... :) I don't understand my own raw comments after a week |
| 18:58.07 | ``Erik | hehehe, millions of postit notes with random sentence fragments? :D |
| 18:58.21 | Maloeran | Yes, that's exactly what it is :), except that it's in the code |
| 18:58.37 | ``Erik | <-- still interested in the deltas, and it does no harm to 'back up' your work frequently, no? |
| 18:58.43 | Maloeran | All right though, I'll try to do more than a large monthly commit |
| 18:59.13 | ``Erik | I mean, hell, you see the cia messages here, we commit stuff to brl-cad all the time... |
| 18:59.24 | ``Erik | and in my case, a good portion of it is only half thought out ;) |
| 18:59.36 | Maloeran | Very small commits, yes, but there are a lot of people working on it |
| 18:59.42 | Maloeran | Ah :) |
| 19:00.08 | ``Erik | <-- commits just as frequently on his personal projects where he's the only developer |
| 19:00.09 | Maloeran | Do I also commit temporary code for personal testing purposes? |
| 19:00.16 | ``Erik | often in smaller commits, heh |
| 19:00.22 | ``Erik | sure, why not? |
| 19:00.33 | Maloeran | *shakes head* Okay |
| 19:00.47 | ``Erik | it's a way of recording history, communicating, and backing up your data |
| 19:01.25 | Maloeran | Stuff will be commited for Monday when the guy looks at it |
| 19:01.55 | ``Erik | maybe you'll be knee deep in something you're trying to figure out and a commit would let someone see where your head is and maybe ask golden questions that help you, or offer possible alternatives? |
| 19:02.36 | ``Erik | it's your code and you get to decide, but I'm interested and want to keep up to speed on it :D (and if I'm being unreasonable, someone please, ffs, tell me) |
| 19:02.37 | Maloeran | So you want to participate in the code? :) I hadn't assumed so, I'll change my approach then |
| 19:03.02 | Maloeran | Oh, you are not being unreasonable at all. Look Erik, I have always coded alone |
| 19:03.03 | ``Erik | I'm already half participating out on a fringe, but in using an old snapshot |
| 19:03.36 | ``Erik | binding rayforce and adrt into a benchmark program is my current top priority non-emergency task |
| 19:03.51 | Maloeran | Great |
| 19:03.59 | ``Erik | (now I'm focusing very much on tie at the moment, as I know my copy of rayforce is outdated) |
| 19:05.48 | Maloeran | I'll shower and eat breakfast before it closes at 15h, thanks for your guidance |
| 19:06.10 | ``Erik | later, dude :D |
| 19:12.01 | ``Erik | nice http://home.earthlink.net/~krautj/sassy/sassy.html |
| 19:16.02 | archivist | bah too many brackets |
| 19:20.36 | ``Erik | func1(func2(func3())) vs (func1 (func2 (func3))), the second has too many brackets but the first is ok? :D |
| 19:20.52 | ``Erik | or, say, (func1 {func2 [funk3]}) ? |
| 19:21.32 | archivist | I dont expect any brackets in plain assembler |
| 19:24.32 | ``Erik | (lisp or scheme style) macros would be insanely awesome in an asm type thing |
| 19:25.38 | ``Erik | makes me wanna do os work that much more :D |
| 19:26.42 | archivist | ew |
| 19:27.13 | ``Erik | <-- wants a modern lispos |
| 19:27.44 | ``Erik | perhaps because I ate too much wallcandy as a child :D |
| 19:28.26 | brlcad | ~seen joevalleyfield |
| 19:29.05 | ibot | joevalleyfield <n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 371d 1h 7m 36s ago, saying: 'may i buy a vowel?'. |
| 19:31.22 | brlcad | frequent small commits are a "good thing" |
| 20:19.33 | Maloeran | I think Lisp-style macros would be really bad in assembly |
| 20:20.03 | Maloeran | Even if you would repeat the same macro twice in high level code, the assembly code should probably be different for each instance |
| 20:38.51 | ``Erik | erm... yeah... uh... that's why I said lisp style instead of c style... :D |
| 20:45.59 | ``Erik | qjkl |
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| 21:55.34 | brlcad | curious, how do most feel about embedded tabs? e.g., int foo;[tab][tab]/* some comment */ |
| 21:58.03 | brlcad | at least doesn't answer the question |
| 21:59.10 | Maloeran | If not for comments besides code, I don't see the point of embedded tabs :). In other words, I wouldn't be too fond of these |
| 22:00.08 | brlcad | might also see them in comments for example to line something up perhaps |
| 22:00.25 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.39 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.44 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.47 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:02.03 | brlcad | personally, I've found them to be more annoying than helpful simply because some editors are thrown off by them |
| 22:02.34 | Maloeran | Yes, I'm not too fond of tabs generally. If you have seen my code, I use space everywhere |
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| 22:05.11 | brlcad | it's not so much preference as it is collaborative impact that I'm concerned with .. gut feeling is that it's probably not a big deal either way and the few bytes that are saved probably don't matter much |
| 22:06.51 | brlcad | Maloeran: I believe you perhaps mean to say you can't stand indentation levels of 8 .. rather different statement |
| 22:07.27 | brlcad | the only portable tabwidth is 8, indentation and use of tab characters at intervals of 8 are usually the question |
| 22:07.28 | ``Erik | your embedding is just indenting after the code... I might have a line that says \t\t\tint i;\t\t/* i is the index. nehe taught me commenting */\n |
| 22:08.44 | ``Erik | <-- tabhappy mofo :D but ain't religious on it |
| 22:10.09 | brlcad | use of tabs or not isn't really a concern, it's whether this mass update I'm about to commit that turns all embedded ones into tabs or not is what's at hand |
| 22:10.50 | brlcad | whitespace at the beginning of lines is already commented on in hacking, we have standard practice on that and footers to encourage/enforce it |
| 22:11.05 | brlcad | but embedded is another question |
| 22:11.12 | ``Erik | as long as they linux up with the ex: command in a comment or 8 if none exists, I'm all down with it :D |
| 22:11.18 | ``Erik | erm |
| 22:11.21 | ``Erik | linux??? line |
| 22:12.50 | brlcad | linux? |
| 22:13.06 | brlcad | ahh |
| 22:13.31 | brlcad | yeah, embedded is pretty much orthogonal to ex: |
| 22:14.55 | ``Erik | wait, just -*- option -*- ? :D |
| 22:15.34 | brlcad | we don't use emacs header lines |
| 22:15.48 | brlcad | footer variable blocks |
| 22:15.49 | ``Erik | I thought I saw 'em somewhere in the src |
| 22:15.54 | ``Erik | oh |
| 22:16.04 | ``Erik | <-- not an emacs guy... needs to learn |
| 22:16.35 | brlcad | header lines have funky rules about having to be within the first few lines of the file (similar to vi's need to be near the end) |
| 22:17.02 | brlcad | the emacs variable blocks can be anywhere, so it's more convenient to bundle them with the vi line |
| 22:17.31 | brlcad | then all your formatting junk is out of sight most of the time and respected by the two main editors |
| 22:19.50 | ``Erik | aaanyhoo, was just throwing out that it'd be interesting to see how many files are delinquent wrt |
| 22:21.50 | brlcad | oh, most are atm |
| 22:22.02 | brlcad | i've only run the indent script on a few directories |
| 22:22.32 | brlcad | there's preprocessor gunk that screws things up that has to be manually/slowly fixed, otherwise I'd let it run on all files |
| 22:29.55 | louipc | making the code more readable? |
| 22:30.22 | brlcad | readable depends on the reader |
| 22:30.29 | brlcad | but more consistent, yes ;) |
| 22:33.51 | louipc | good stuff. Do you need help? |
| 22:35.11 | brlcad | heh, always |
| 22:35.25 | ``Erik | hey |
| 22:35.28 | ``Erik | lets kill vdeck |
| 22:35.28 | louipc | because that sounds like something I could do :D |
| 22:35.41 | brlcad | with over a million lines of code, there's always "something" inconsistent that can be cleaned up |
| 22:35.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: what for? |
| 22:36.12 | ``Erik | why not? I'd hope no one uses gift anymore :D |
| 22:36.16 | brlcad | if it's causing major problems sure, but if it's not.. leave it alone :) |
| 22:36.25 | ``Erik | aw, c'mon, I wanna kill it |
| 22:36.28 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 22:36.36 | brlcad | actually, I had someone ask for gift stuff just a few weeks ago |
| 22:36.41 | ``Erik | crazy |
| 22:36.46 | brlcad | it is |
| 22:36.48 | Twingy | go shoot them then |
| 22:36.56 | ``Erik | brl-cad is pretty big, a little pruning might be beneficial |
| 22:37.15 | Twingy | ``Erik, not until it gets a flight simulator built in |
| 22:37.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:37.30 | ``Erik | um... hmmm |
| 22:37.33 | louipc | hehe |
| 22:38.08 | brlcad | getting rid of existing functionality that has no/little overhead is of minimal value, and more than likely just would irritate the handful of people that would miss it |
| 22:38.25 | brlcad | more benficial would be to fix the bigger problems.. |
| 22:38.40 | dtidrow_work | somebody would notice and whine bitterly, eh? |
| 22:38.49 | ``Erik | meh *shrug* |
| 22:39.36 | brlcad | just about every time |
| 22:39.38 | brlcad | within six months almost guaranteed |
| 22:40.00 | brlcad | and it because fuel to a fire |
| 22:40.05 | brlcad | s/because/becomes/ |
| 22:41.37 | louipc | is there a guide to how the code should be formatted? |
| 22:42.42 | brlcad | louipc: HACKING file has the details |
| 22:44.00 | brlcad | pretty standard stuff, should resemble linux kernel with 4 char indents mostly |
| 22:44.41 | brlcad | i.e. GNU coding standards with basic K&R indentation style |
| 22:45.40 | louipc | hmm I'll have to read up on the specifics of those |
| 22:46.00 | brlcad | there are examples in the hacking file, wikipedia has a simple coverage as well |
| 22:48.25 | brlcad | there is a script in cvs that will actually utilize emacs to automatically format up sources for you according to the style, and it does a great job |
| 22:48.53 | brlcad | but it does get confused by some preprocessor logic that changes curly brace indentation |
| 22:49.05 | brlcad | e.g. #ifdef __whatever__ |
| 22:49.15 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:49.18 | brlcad | #else |
| 22:49.26 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:49.27 | louipc | yeah hehe |
| 22:49.28 | brlcad | #endif |
| 22:49.36 | brlcad | messes up on the double indent |
| 22:50.01 | brlcad | simple to accommodate, just remove the indent or remove the ifdef even better if possible |
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| 23:32.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (19 files): ws |
| 23:38.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: (log message trimmed) |
| 23:38.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: This script updates a given set of files (or most all files in this |
| 23:38.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: project) with consistent whitespace formatting. The script can be run |
| 23:38.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: on individual files or in batch mode, and is intended to be run |
| 23:38.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: periodically to help ensure consistent formatting. Currently, the |
| 23:38.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: following actions are performed by default (but can be selected |
| 23:38.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: individually at run-time): |
| 23:46.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include ws.sh |
| 00:28.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: Remove the Done |
| 00:30.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: this script doesn't do indentation, there are better tools for that job (e.g. brl-cad's indent.sh emacs hook script). |
| 00:32.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (6 files): ws, test two |
| 00:45.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: too many changes by expanding internal tabs for my comfort zone, disable it by default for now. causes massive changes as brl-cad extensively uses tabs atm. (not visual, but massive nonetheless) |
| 01:02.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (93 files): ws, test three |
| 01:08.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS HACKING INSTALL AUTHORS BUGS configure.ac): ws, last test..looking good ;) |
| 01:12.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: ignore our own files |
| 01:15.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: obey WS_PROGRESS |
| 01:31.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: run ourself on ourself |
| 01:33.53 | brlcad | *boooom* |
| 01:40.02 | ``Erik | I presume "whitespace" means "tab and space", not the usual compiler/parser notion of "tab, space, and newline" |
| 01:42.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1084 files in 111 dirs): ws. lots and lots of ws. see sh/ws.sh for details (cases 'abcdeg'). |
| 01:42.44 | ``Erik | perl where sed would've done? |
| 01:51.07 | brlcad | still not completely common to have a sed that supports in-place-editing, and full-file (-0777) matches are royal pita |
| 01:52.42 | ``Erik | yeah, linux lacks on the sed... the "mv sed rm" loop is lame |
| 01:52.51 | brlcad | futzing with sed and redirects, and my pedantic check of file inputs/outputs before and after would have just added bloat |
| 01:53.25 | brlcad | i had to add one in there for 'expand' and didn't really want to (though it in the end, that's the case that's disabled |
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| 01:55.36 | brlcad | that probably cut the line count down by a few hundred/thousand at least, no more spans of blank lines (bob had some tcl files with dozens at the end of file) |
| 01:55.45 | brlcad | at least no more than two now |
| 01:56.25 | brlcad | particularly trailing newlines after the footer.. that's just annoying |
| 01:58.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: s/one lines/on lines/ typo |
| 01:59.46 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 02:00.37 | ``Erik | 'portlint' complains if there is more than one contiguous blank line... is that a feature we should concern ourselves with? does it ever make sense to have three consecutive newline characters? |
| 02:01.44 | brlcad | yeah, i can see the case for distinguishing between one and two .. separate out sections in file, each section might have breaks of one |
| 02:02.09 | brlcad | that's got to be configurable with portlint I'd imagine too |
| 02:02.24 | ``Erik | no, portlint is insanely anal on things like that |
| 02:02.33 | ``Erik | it's a pretty basic perl script last I looked |
| 02:02.52 | ``Erik | sections are seperated by exactly one blank line. necessarily. |
| 02:03.01 | brlcad | don't see why we'd need to care really |
| 02:03.07 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 02:03.29 | ``Erik | just throwing it out there :) |
| 02:03.31 | brlcad | i mean it does make sense to allow a couple, denotes a break more than one level |
| 02:04.00 | brlcad | at least, I see a use for it |
| 02:04.07 | ``Erik | probably be better to do a quick&dirty grep type search and manually fix it, anyways |
| 02:04.12 | brlcad | now the difference between 3 and 4 or 3 and 8, not so much |
| 02:04.15 | ``Erik | if apporpriate |
| 02:05.00 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:05.04 | brlcad | "why" |
| 02:05.16 | ``Erik | page break... to seperate high level sections... |
| 02:05.25 | brlcad | i know, but .. "why" |
| 02:05.26 | ``Erik | opposed to blank line, then /********/ |
| 02:06.03 | brlcad | mostly only useful if you shovel the file off to a printer |
| 02:06.06 | ``Erik | (also; shows up a pretty dark blue in vim) |
| 02:06.08 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 02:06.16 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:06.21 | brlcad | most of the time, you're just looking at stupid ^L's everywhere :) |
| 02:06.31 | ``Erik | pretty dark blue ^L's |
| 02:06.33 | brlcad | hehe |
| 02:07.08 | ``Erik | nonprintable characters are colored in vim, and the default color theme doens't use that color for anything else :) |
| 02:07.48 | brlcad | hm, the addition of opennurbs caused by 1.5 hour G4 compile to go to about 3 hours now |
| 02:08.36 | ``Erik | with wc.sh; you do progress for every single file? do any take long enough to worry about that? would it be worth building the perl program in a string, then executing perl once to lower the startup/teardown overhead? |
| 02:08.54 | brlcad | nah, the whole thing flies |
| 02:09.31 | brlcad | processed all of the sources and other files in like two minutes |
| 02:09.47 | brlcad | which is like .1sec/file |
| 02:10.06 | ``Erik | hm, seems like a better progress indicator would be to make total % done after each file, then collapse the perl |
| 02:10.43 | brlcad | meh, cleaning up ws is just a helper task .. and now it's done.. |
| 02:11.41 | brlcad | it's enough wrapper around 7 lines of actual work as it is |
| 02:12.03 | brlcad | the only nasty part is the collapse of whitespace at the beginning of a line |
| 02:12.45 | brlcad | could not for the life of me get the regexp to behave without iterating.. so it iterates -- and collapses one each iteration |
| 02:13.22 | brlcad | annoying, but again, meh it's done and did the job well |
| 02:13.46 | ``Erik | hum |
| 02:13.50 | ``Erik | ummm |
| 02:14.03 | ``Erik | did you give it the /e flag at the end to tell it extended regex? |
| 02:14.35 | ``Erik | (and, actually, your replacement string can be a perl program...) |
| 02:15.15 | ``Erik | the only perl in my toolbox these days is: |
| 02:15.16 | ``Erik | perl -pi -e 's/%([0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z])/chr(hex($1))/eig' |
| 02:16.56 | brlcad | i know, I tried a variety of junk |
| 02:17.35 | ``Erik | *shrug* if it works, it works :) hopefully, we'll all have enough discipline to never need it again... |
| 02:17.39 | brlcad | still couldn't get iteration without explicitly iterating .. something non-greedy that rematched on a global |
| 02:17.47 | brlcad | heh, riiiight |
| 02:18.16 | brlcad | it probably should be set up to run weekly |
| 02:18.49 | brlcad | later though, after the website (and after ef) |
| 02:35.43 | ``Erik | if run weekly, should it attempt to commit, or should it send an email reporting its 'findings' so a human can verify and commit? |
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| 04:51.15 | brlcad | for that kind of script, probably just commit .. for others, depends |
| 06:21.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: no need to find configure.ac -- just let it use the current directory if no arguments are specified |
| 07:00.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: no need to find configure.ac -- just let it use the current directory if no arguments are specified. the helper script can still be searched for as needed. |
| 07:05.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: no need to find configure.ac -- just let it use the current directory if no arguments are specified. |
| 07:17.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: it's a nifty generic script, but there's still no real pressing need or justification to install it. |
| 07:42.06 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 07:57.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: should not be using the gpl or gfdl any more |
| 09:05.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: oop another ref to gpl/gfdl removed. |
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| 10:31.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (template.sh Makefile.am): |
| 10:31.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: initial addition of this file template script. it generates an empty template |
| 10:31.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: file with a standard header and footer based on the provided license and file |
| 10:31.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: type. basically, it's a warpper on the header.sh and footer.sh script along |
| 10:31.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: with other clean-up steps generally needed. add script to dist. |
| 10:33.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: fix comment, mirror commands, not m command |
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| 18:58.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: check for valid access before looking up the object |
| 21:43.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 4 dirs): remove the tolerance parameter from nmg_invert_shell. it's not used, contrary to the commented purpose, and just complicates the interface unnecessarily so remove it. |
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| 22:29.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c: |
| 22:29.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add a new rt_mirror() routine for mirroring an object about a specified axis. |
| 22:29.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the routine is derived from mged's f_mirror command hook and is one step closer |
| 22:29.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: towards getting rid of the switch on primitive types. routine takes a database |
| 22:29.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: instance, a from and to object name, and the axis and returns a directory |
| 22:29.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: pointer to the new mirror object. |
| 22:30.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: add the new rt_mirror func |
| 22:30.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: add new mirror.c file |
| 22:32.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: use the new rt_mirror() function for the guts to f_mirror(). the latter is now just a wrapper on the tcl/mged command interface semantics. part of general effort to move mged's editing facilities into librt. |
| 22:39.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: one step closer, stub out the matrix transformation on solids |
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| 08:10.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: windows (vc8) throws an assertion if setvbuf is called with a size of zero: ((2 <= size) && (size <= INT_MAX)) .. presumably they want a buffer big enough to stash their \r\n or somesuch. |
| 08:23.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: go with a BUFSIZE buffer instead of min to reduce write flushing |
| 08:31.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: er, define BUFSIZE for setvbuf |
| 08:37.31 | Maloeran | It's just amusing to see it being "robust" enough to try to handle OSes that don't conform to specifications |
| 08:46.06 | brlcad | yep, it can |
| 08:53.26 | brlcad | the "specifications" didn't always exist, too .. and most have gone through various iterations of what is strictly required, what is recommended, how compliant implementations are if at all, etc |
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| 16:18.18 | clock_ | lol - lol :) |
| 16:18.33 | clock_ | POSIX loser, brl-cad ruler :) |
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| 00:07.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: c++ source file |
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| 01:22.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: er, if the diff is empty then it means there was no change. logic error somehow snuck in |
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| 06:24.18 | bjorkBSD | 1:33.56 |
| 06:24.47 | bjorkBSD | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5839713484603756925&q=seymour+cray |
| 06:24.55 | bjorkBSD | brl-cad is mentioned in that video ;l) |
| 06:25.08 | bjorkBSD | at that precise time... 1:33.56 |
| 07:09.08 | brlcad | heh, that's pretty interesting |
| 07:25.58 | brlcad | that's cool, had definitely not seen it |
| 07:26.50 | brlcad | their details on mike and brl-cad were slightly off, but the spirit of the moment of the aside was neat |
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| 17:56.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: add mirror.c |
| 17:58.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: add mirror.c |
| 18:02.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: mention how installation of Tcl is needed with the vc6 build in order for the libs to work |
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| 20:36.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (prep.c shoot.c): grr, let rt_clean_resource work with a NULL rtip just like rt_init_resource (!) |
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| 23:56.25 | bjorkBSD | 'sup folks. |
| 23:56.27 | bjorkBSD | no topic? |
| 00:02.02 | dtidrow_work | guess not |
| 00:02.10 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: you want to add one? |
| 00:02.34 | bjorkBSD | i think so ... |
| 00:02.45 | bjorkBSD | i saw a video yesterday and brlcad was mentioned. |
| 00:02.51 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:03.02 | dtidrow_work | which one? |
| 00:03.08 | bjorkBSD | it wasn't about brlcad of course, it was about seymour cray and his machines. |
| 00:03.20 | bjorkBSD | so the whole session lasted a total of 1 minute. but it was there. |
| 00:03.21 | dtidrow_work | right - that was mentioned here earlier |
| 00:03.34 | bjorkBSD | i posted the link yesterday. |
| 00:03.41 | dtidrow_work | ah, maybe that was it |
| 00:03.47 | bjorkBSD | did you see it? |
| 00:04.14 | dtidrow_work | not yet, but I did download it |
| 00:04.29 | dtidrow_work | the whole thing, that is |
| 00:04.51 | bjorkBSD | you can't watch it online? |
| 00:05.11 | dtidrow_work | I can, I just prefer to dl them if possible |
| 00:07.19 | *** topic/#brlcad by ``Erik -> BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad | |
| 00:08.10 | dtidrow_work | ah - thought the chanop had to set the topic... |
| 00:08.41 | ``Erik | only if the channel has the +t bit set on its mode |
| 00:08.52 | dtidrow_work | gotcha |
| 00:08.52 | ``Erik | (which is the norm...) |
| 00:12.35 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: yeah, I watched the lecture .. pretty nifty little gem |
| 00:13.32 | brlcad | network reset must have blown away the topic |
| 00:19.53 | bjorkBSD | ah :) |
| 00:19.57 | bjorkBSD | had you seen it before? |
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| 01:44.41 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: no, i hadn't! |
| 01:46.02 | brlcad | so you just found yourself watching their posted cray 1 lecture for fun? :) |
| 01:46.24 | bjorkBSD | yes :D |
| 01:47.44 | bjorkBSD | no computers have next to nothing to do with my blue collar job. |
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| 10:14.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c: |
| 10:14.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: include string.h if HAVE_STRING_H is defined |
| 10:14.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: include nurb.h (RT_NURB_EXTRACT_COORDS) |
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| 22:16.43 | PrezKennedy | geez... its only tuesday |
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| 05:56.34 | bjorkBSD | so i've drawn a few boxes and toruses and one or two other things so far. |
| 05:56.42 | bjorkBSD | applaud me! :D |
| 06:32.33 | bjorkBSD | ... or not :| |
| 06:32.35 | *** part/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 06:56.18 | brlcad | heh |
| 08:09.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: remove the abort if the first line isn't detected. instead just warn and apply the header. also, add prefix to case for portability and empty argument matching. |
| 08:10.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tessellation of some pipe in toyjeep.g fails (rather reliably) on a bend |
| 08:11.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add c-indentation-style to emacs variable block, setting to k&r or something more appropriate than the gnu default (see c-set-style). |
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| 17:30.02 | ``Erik | $ cvs commit -m 'linux is for retards' |
| 17:30.04 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 17:32.11 | ``Erik | I think I may have librt working in the framework today... that'd be nifty.. adrt shortly after. and since I removed the offending source, I can just give it to you when it's done, instead of going through the public release procedure |
| 17:47.10 | Maloeran | cvs commit -m 'OSX threading and memory management are abominable' |
| 17:48.23 | Maloeran | I'll add single-ray non-threaded tracing functions when I get that source, since there's no other way |
| 18:02.02 | ``Erik | I'm under the impression that some osX syscalls are ugly performers due to mach microkernel message passing... |
| 18:05.17 | ``Erik | (also; osX uses phkmalloc(), not dl-malloc) |
| 18:30.00 | Maloeran | I think the fact that the routing system and codes are completely different is being understood |
| 18:33.07 | Maloeran | I find myself pondering about Intel's latest Xeons, the Core2 architecture ; though it's limited to 2 sockets per motherboard |
| 18:46.22 | ``Erik | are mark and/or tony informed of the difficulties? |
| 18:48.27 | ``Erik | (librt results being curried back and performance monitoring is in place... nifty.. oddly enough, single threaded, fbsd/amd64 2.0ghz is 120krps and linux/ia32 2.0ghz is 34.7krps) |
| 18:56.49 | Maloeran | Are you comparing an Opteron with a Pentium 4? |
| 18:57.08 | ``Erik | opteron and xeon |
| 18:57.22 | ``Erik | p4-xeon |
| 18:57.23 | Maloeran | They aren't informed, but I think they'll make this work eventually. I'm just amused from the fact they never knew canadian banks worked differently |
| 18:57.43 | Maloeran | Well sure, that's a crappy chip in comparison to an Opteron |
| 18:57.45 | ``Erik | they're not an international company... :D |
| 19:00.11 | Maloeran | Oh well, it's just impatient for I'll order some nice hardware as soon as it's received |
| 19:10.50 | Maloeran | I'm* just |
| 19:15.55 | ``Erik | heh, stupid canucks, doing everything bass ackwards ;) |
| 19:18.00 | Maloeran | Tsk, how could you ever buy a Pentium 4 ; the old Athlons were already better back then |
| 19:19.14 | Maloeran | Unless it was forced on you by management, I had assumed you had a word to say on the hardware you receive |
| 19:19.37 | ``Erik | it was here when I got here |
| 19:19.45 | ``Erik | and it had "dell" stamped on the case (it's a rack mount thingy) |
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| 19:46.18 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: you around? |
| 19:47.04 | brlcad | nope |
| 19:47.09 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:39.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/cvt.c: should be using bu_getopt and friends |
| 20:57.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: update comment, USE_PROTOTYPES is set in configure, not machine.h |
| 21:01.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.1: consistency on BRL-CAD where not technically problematic, s/BRLCAD/BRL-CAD/ |
| 21:39.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/iges.c: more BRL-CAD name consistency. allow BRLCAD or BRL-CAD in the attribute string. |
| 21:40.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/ (g-jack.c jack-g.c): use libbu getopt |
| 21:40.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): consistency on BRL-CAD name use, s/BRLCAD/BRL-CAD/ |
| 22:03.07 | Maloeran | http://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/index.php - Some conference in Montreal in May, do you guys want to come over here for a change? :) |
| 22:03.39 | Maloeran | Perhaps not quite on topics that concern BRL-CAD though |
| 22:04.15 | ``Erik | sounds like it'll be a bunch of french faggots |
| 22:04.16 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:04.33 | ``Erik | <-- might be in ottawa may 18-19 |
| 22:04.39 | ``Erik | http://www.bsdcan.org/2007/ |
| 22:05.50 | Maloeran | Tsk Ottawa, come try some of Montreal's restaurants |
| 22:07.49 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:08.04 | ``Erik | the hotel+travel thing mentions hitting montreal by air, then training to ottawa |
| 22:08.28 | ``Erik | unfortunately, it's after your contract is completed, so I can't use it as an excuse to "meet" |
| 22:08.30 | ``Erik | :) |
| 22:09.07 | Maloeran | We can use it as an excuse to... present Rayforce or something, perhaps a future piece of Blender |
| 22:10.52 | Maloeran | On a related topic, Mark asked if other contracts were planned or if they could put me on their fire simulation |
| 22:10.57 | ``Erik | blender isn't on the radar with the pointy hairs |
| 22:11.21 | ``Erik | I don't know.. I think the current posture is "we want to use him, we don't know for what right now" |
| 22:11.36 | ``Erik | send me an email at my work addy to remind me and I'll make noise about it |
| 22:11.42 | ``Erik | erikg@arl.army.mil |
| 22:11.46 | ``Erik | <-- home right now ;) |
| 22:12.04 | Maloeran | All right. The fire simulation looks fun to play with, but the project's team seems... weird so far |
| 22:12.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:13.01 | Maloeran | From what I have seen so far, a bunch of engineers writing Fortran77 code, without any real programming skills |
| 22:13.27 | ``Erik | <-- has no binding authority and those with it rarely notify him, is in the dark |
| 22:13.35 | ``Erik | yes, actually |
| 22:13.35 | ``Erik | a bit worse |
| 22:14.49 | ``Erik | from what I gleaned off of mark when we were sitting there, there was a fortran coder who write it in floortrash IV, some dudes (engineer types, no cs background either by education or experience) who really don't know coding hacked it until it worked in a f77 compiler, and other people |
| 22:15.02 | ``Erik | (again, engineer types) get told to "make it do something new" every once in a while |
| 22:15.45 | Maloeran | Yes, that's about it. They asked 25-50 words on my ideas to rewrite the whole thing, they received about 2000 words |
| 22:15.53 | ``Erik | typically, that kinda coder has a basic handle on something as complex as, say, a linked list... but not much more |
| 22:16.16 | Maloeran | And I really lost on the way... I received questions like "Which is faster, equations or look-up tables?" without any background or context |
| 22:16.26 | Maloeran | really lost them* on the way |
| 22:16.36 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 22:17.02 | ``Erik | (and I consider a method to be a function... that's how the machine sees it) |
| 22:17.42 | ``Erik | to use java mangling, path$to$class$method() (far less horrible than, say, c++ mangling) |
| 22:17.43 | Maloeran | Mark undertands code better than they do, he's the only one who was able to write meaningful feedback on the 2000 words summary |
| 22:18.00 | ``Erik | there're some people at survice who know their shit |
| 22:18.10 | Maloeran | I think Mark is great as a manager, really |
| 22:18.13 | ``Erik | and there're some who don't... and that is everywhere |
| 22:18.32 | ``Erik | yeah, tony seems like a decent guy, the switch isn't gonna really jack anyone, I don't think |
| 22:19.20 | ``Erik | probably the most impressive thing about mark isn't his technical aptitude, but his ability to get the hell out of the way when the topic goes beyond him |
| 22:19.56 | ``Erik | good guy, hope he likes his new position :) |
| 22:20.26 | Maloeran | I'm apparently sticking to Mark as manager, I think he prefered to keep it that way |
| 22:20.34 | ``Erik | his replacement seems to exhibit the same ability, as well as a very tech based candor |
| 22:20.40 | ``Erik | huh |
| 22:20.42 | ``Erik | aight |
| 22:20.51 | ``Erik | he's moving south, though |
| 22:20.55 | Maloeran | Example of feedback from the engineers, about SSE-packed data storage and processing : "In you latest epistle, you mentioned grouping the grid-cells in 'packages' of four. Since a cube has 6 sides, why not in groups of 6, one for each face? " |
| 22:21.05 | Maloeran | Right, I know |
| 22:21.15 | ``Erik | I spoze that really doesn't matter if you're working on non-arl stuff |
| 22:21.35 | Maloeran | I can't see how could one organize the cells of a region in groups of 6 to match the faces of cubes! It can't be done! |
| 22:21.35 | ``Erik | less rural down there, if/when ya move, I spoze :) |
| 22:22.14 | ``Erik | ah,yes... the snow.. the ice... the car doors... pleasant living... :D *duck* |
| 22:22.37 | Maloeran | Oh, especially the car doors :) |
| 22:29.26 | Maloeran | I really wonder what this fortran code will look like, do you have any clue on how big it is? |
| 22:29.46 | Maloeran | I just wonder if it might be possible to rewrite it all in a short time frame |
| 22:29.55 | ``Erik | well |
| 22:29.59 | ``Erik | if it falls int he same pattern |
| 22:30.20 | ``Erik | 90-95% is superfluous |
| 22:30.20 | ``Erik | if documentation exists, it's wrong |
| 22:30.25 | Maloeran | I have heard there is a function with 150 parameters in it |
| 22:30.31 | ``Erik | and it'll either make your eyes bleed |
| 22:30.35 | ``Erik | or go insane |
| 22:30.38 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:30.40 | Maloeran | Cool! :) |
| 22:31.01 | ``Erik | <-- was insane before he started doing paid work, so just gets the bleeding eyes things |
| 22:31.11 | Maloeran | As long as I can rewrite it all from scratch, I don't think I really mind ; but I wonder if I'll have time |
| 22:40.25 | brlcad | Maloeran: seems like a rather tiny conference |
| 22:40.42 | brlcad | mildly interesting, but it's on the periphery |
| 22:43.34 | Maloeran | Yes, I'll probably have a look because it's 15 minutes away, but I wasn't seriously expecting you guys to come |
| 22:45.10 | brlcad | feel free to pimp up brl-cad ;) |
| 22:46.07 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:34.18 | ``Erik | and let us know how many people show up and how 'useful' it is :) |
| 23:38.34 | brlcad | looks like about 40-60 showed up last year |
| 23:40.48 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 23:43.53 | Maloeran | Where did you see that, brlcad? |
| 23:47.51 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 02:30.31 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 03:53.22 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096781862.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:53.29 | louipc | howdy |
| 04:52.44 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@65.95.144.38) | |
| 04:54.04 | bjorkBSD | 'sup |
| 07:03.21 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 07:30.48 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-18.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:39.27 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096781862.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 14:26.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltBgexec.c: missing sys/errno.h header |
| 14:31.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltMath.h: BLT_DBL_EPSILON isn't defined |
| 16:15.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (bltUnixPipe.c bltVecMath.c): add sys/errno.h to appease configless compilation |
| 16:16.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltMath.h: define BLT_DBL_EPSILON and BLT_FLT_EPSILON so that configless compilation will succeed. |
| 18:25.52 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.84) | |
| 19:49.00 | *** join/#brlcad kakashi (n=5840116c@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:27.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: define some default for a configless compile |
| 21:52.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: include the same prototype declarations that vls.c uses for bu_vls_printf and bu_vls_sprintf. remove the non-existant bu_vls_blkset. |
| 22:16.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: provide types for the cray func prototype for bu_vls_printf and bu_vls_sprintf now that the function is unk&rified |
| 00:00.58 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 00:06.24 | ``Erik | hm |
| 00:42.38 | ``Erik | hah |
| 00:42.41 | ``Erik | free? |
| 00:42.51 | brlcad | yup |
| 00:43.04 | ``Erik | aight... they're all on the webpage and it's fast |
| 00:43.05 | brlcad | most of the podcasts are free |
| 00:43.26 | brlcad | yep, but clicking the *subscribe* is pretty darn convenient |
| 00:43.33 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* :D |
| 00:43.35 | brlcad | it'll automatically send me the new ones |
| 00:43.40 | ``Erik | swank |
| 00:43.52 | ``Erik | I might need to do that, heh |
| 00:44.18 | brlcad | these video podcasts are getting addictive |
| 00:44.27 | ``Erik | I have a bookmark folder of "daily urls" that I click "open all" on every day |
| 00:45.08 | brlcad | getting daily nbc news, daily italian lesson, npr fresh air, strongbad, thistlepod, and a few others now |
| 00:45.12 | ``Erik | freshmeat, slashdot, linuxgames, happypenguin, opengl.org, gamasutra, ibm's dev page, my comic page, zefrank, bash.org/?latest, qdb.us/?latest, ... |
| 00:45.50 | brlcad | yeah, most of those are either on my rss list or are visited when I get the chance |
| 00:45.55 | ``Erik | (the comic page crawls 20 or so webcomics and dumps the actual comic from each in a single big unified page) |
| 00:46.04 | brlcad | i've seen/used your comic page |
| 00:46.12 | ``Erik | ah, heh :) |
| 00:46.13 | brlcad | i try to avoid comics these days |
| 00:46.23 | brlcad | too many, too much time :) |
| 00:46.24 | ``Erik | I have a v2 almost done, just some bughunting I think |
| 00:46.50 | ``Erik | it has the notion of user and comic state, so if you've already seen the image, it won't show it again |
| 00:47.29 | ``Erik | (and if you miss a day, it shows you all teh ones you haven't seen) |
| 02:08.23 | louipc | hehe strongbad |
| 02:08.51 | louipc | I wonder if there's a daily finnish lesson podcast |
| 02:18.15 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 02:40.17 | Twingy | seen the Pico-ITX? |
| 02:40.51 | bjorkBSD | no. |
| 03:48.05 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 03:48.05 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 04:00.40 | louipc | have you heard of the linux foundation yet? |
| 04:00.57 | bjorkBSD | who is that? |
| 04:01.17 | louipc | apparently they're gearing up to go against microsoft |
| 04:01.55 | louipc | a merger of odsl and fsg |
| 04:02.20 | louipc | http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/About |
| 04:02.37 | bjorkBSD | ah. |
| 05:24.52 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 06:05.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.3: update example to use libbu bu_getopt |
| 06:09.25 | *** join/#brlcad cad61 (n=51d56cf5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 06:13.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: declare k in f_mirror |
| 06:13.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c: change references to f_mirror to rt_mirror |
| 06:29.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: uses libbu and libbn, libadd declare them |
| 06:33.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: dependency ordering on libadd libraries |
| 06:38.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: document all of the various library dependencies. add a description of the newly added libbrlcad as well. |
| 06:38.36 | brlcad | good stuff |
| 06:57.17 | Maloeran | A stupid question ; does anyone have a term to refer to the entities of a processing network, may they technically be clients, servers, masters or slaves? |
| 06:58.35 | Maloeran | Just trying to get proper terms for the API, "nodes" and "links" are already internally used for other concepts |
| 06:59.50 | brlcad | processing node is what first comes to mind |
| 07:00.52 | brlcad | might get away with peers if they are also peers |
| 07:00.55 | Maloeran | Right. I'm trying to avoid confusion on internal terms |
| 07:01.28 | Maloeran | "Peers" wouldn't be too appropriate, it's more master/slave based |
| 07:02.30 | Maloeran | Thanks, I'll use "Node" in the API and try to avoid confusion within the source |
| 07:07.47 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:07.50 | brlcad | yeah, there's not much terminology when it comes to generic descriptions of network connectivity |
| 07:09.00 | brlcad | connections, nodes, points, links, junctures, hmm.. |
| 07:12.25 | *** join/#brlcad clock__ (i=clock@84-72-61-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:31.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (156 files in 12 dirs): Updated to the latest release of libpng, from version 1.2.8 to version 1.2.16. Includes all of their ('without config script' distribution) files. |
| 07:44.08 | brlcad | dammit.. per-program cppflags wasn't added until automake 1.7 |
| 08:18.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.c: need stdlib.h for exit(), quell warning |
| 08:24.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: |
| 08:24.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: rename ogl_open, ogl_close, and ogl_choose_visual to have an fb_ prefix to avoid |
| 08:24.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: namespace collisions with libdm. this should probably be done more |
| 08:24.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: comprehensively, but gets past the linking error du jour. declare funcs one per |
| 08:24.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: line while we're in here. |
| 08:27.25 | brlcad | what is this .. |
| 08:27.32 | brlcad | sleep .. you speak of |
| 08:27.47 | Maloeran | It's very relaxing, you should try it sometimes |
| 08:27.56 | brlcad | sounds like devil talk |
| 08:28.03 | brlcad | keep your voodoo magic to yourself |
| 08:29.58 | brlcad | hm. i wish there were a 24 hour gym nearby.. i could really go for a workout right about now |
| 08:30.20 | Maloeran | Running outside in the snow won't do the trick? It works for me |
| 08:30.46 | brlcad | there's not much snow out, but plenty of ice I"m sure |
| 08:31.01 | Maloeran | Ah yes, that's less pleasant |
| 08:31.18 | brlcad | rather dark to see it too this far out |
| 08:32.57 | brlcad | plus, my knees and quads are already sore from yesterday, I'd rather do some heavy lifts and something less pounding on the knees .. followed by a nice dip in a hot tub or sauna.. |
| 08:33.00 | brlcad | mmMMMmmmm |
| 08:33.37 | Maloeran | So I'm guessing you don't have to be at work at 7h30 tomorrow, right? :) |
| 08:36.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:36.50 | brlcad | I don't, but I think I will go in anyways .. should be pleasant enough to get some work done |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (12 files in 10 dirs): |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: remove the png headers from our include directory. png_cppflags are now |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: provided by configure and appropriately set to src/other/libpng if we're not |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: using a system libpng. this should help to avoid header conflicts aside from |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: just unnecessarily duplicating 3rd party headers. use the new png_cppflags as |
| 08:36.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: appropriate, though have to add it to _CFLAGS since per target _CPPFLAGS support |
| 08:36.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: wasn't added until automake 1.7 (and brl-cad allows anything 1.6.0+). |
| 08:37.12 | brlcad | maybe keep hacking here until the gym opens at 5, then in to work |
| 08:37.58 | Maloeran | Impressive. I'm barely able to write code after being awake a mere 18 hours |
| 08:39.01 | brlcad | varies for me, sometimes good for 20, sometimes 40 .. depends what I'm doing during my circadian low |
| 08:40.17 | brlcad | my schedule rotated a few times last week from a couple all-nighters, so I don't think I'll hit a low until about 8am right now |
| 08:40.47 | brlcad | so makes for an easy 40 as I'll be energized after the workout, and busy |
| 08:43.28 | Maloeran | Eheh, nice. My circadian cycle used to be completely messed up, days of 30 hours, for years... I really made an effort to adopt a normal daily cycle when the contract began |
| 08:44.32 | clock_ | I went sleeping yesterday at midnight instead of the recently more usual 22.40 and my rhythm is going to be screwed up from that for about the next week ;-) |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (91 files in 31 dirs): |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: convert all of the lingering getopt calls to bu_getopt (as well as the related |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: getopt globals optind, opterr, optarg) -- libbu's getopt has the benefit of |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: being re-entrant and is portable to environments where getopt() may not be |
| 08:48.59 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: available. |
| 10:03.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 10:03.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: check for -lstdc++ properly like any other library. add conditionals around the |
| 10:03.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: openNURBS checks so if it's disabled, the checks are not performed. rephrase |
| 10:03.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the availability summary (we're not necessarily linking them, they're just |
| 10:03.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: available) |
| 14:49.42 | bjorkBSD | you're aging! |
| 14:49.51 | ``Erik | brlcad: would it be so horrible to bump the required automake to 1.7? 99.9% of the consumers will just use what package with it when you do a "make dist"... |
| 14:50.41 | ``Erik | no, my employer does not understand the notion of 'first 40' or 'flex time' |
| 14:52.09 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:30.52 | Maloeran | Woohoo, SURVICE understood how direct deposit to canadian banks works. Time to buy some hardware |
| 15:43.18 | bjorkBSD | survice sells hardwar? |
| 15:43.20 | bjorkBSD | e |
| 15:43.40 | dtidrow | they sent money so that he can buy some |
| 15:44.33 | bjorkBSD | can anyone receive money to buy hardware? |
| 15:45.06 | dtidrow | heh - would be nice, wouldn't it? ;-) |
| 15:46.00 | dtidrow | IIRC, they've got some sort of consulting arrangement going |
| 15:46.10 | bjorkBSD | they buy him hardware and he says 'woohoo' |
| 15:46.19 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. i'd like such a gig too. |
| 15:58.33 | brlcad | ``Erik: yes it would be |
| 15:59.26 | brlcad | at least right now, with the main dev platform still shipping 1.6.3 |
| 16:04.57 | Maloeran | Still awake, Sean? :) |
| 16:06.08 | brlcad | yeap |
| 16:06.35 | brlcad | didn't make it to the gym, though .. |
| 16:06.38 | bjorkBSD | say, did you develop the industry diagram? |
| 16:06.41 | bjorkBSD | ... it's my wall paper :D |
| 16:06.43 | brlcad | mebbie later |
| 16:06.53 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: heh, neat |
| 16:08.20 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 16:09.04 | bjorkBSD | i put away my brl tutorials until i saw that cray lecture mentioning brl :D |
| 16:10.06 | brlcad | =) |
| 16:10.34 | bjorkBSD | eh. i was gonna use rhino. |
| 16:10.55 | bjorkBSD | but i found religion so i'll stick to this. |
| 16:11.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:11.39 | brlcad | rhino's pretty nice, for some purposes in particular |
| 16:11.56 | brlcad | entirely limited in other ways, but nice for their market |
| 16:11.59 | bjorkBSD | but brl is functionally equivalent so i'm not gonna worry about it too much. |
| 16:14.12 | bjorkBSD | how come the mged user manual isn't mentioned in the docs ... or am i not seeing what's infront of me (as usual) ? |
| 16:14.35 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: not mentioned in which docs? |
| 16:14.37 | bjorkBSD | yeah it's in .ps and it starts from the bibliography but it's pretty damned good! |
| 16:14.48 | bjorkBSD | the brl docs... i didn't see it on the sourceforge site. |
| 16:15.49 | brlcad | ahh, mostly because the ones that are up there were converted to html, and nobody got around to doing that for the other volumes |
| 16:16.05 | bjorkBSD | oh. |
| 16:17.01 | brlcad | most of the website stuff is rather "half-baked" in need of overhaul attention |
| 16:17.11 | bjorkBSD | hrmmm |
| 16:17.33 | brlcad | with the exception of maybe the rest of the sf project pages |
| 16:17.49 | bjorkBSD | okay. |
| 16:17.51 | brlcad | but brlcad.org, for example, needs to be redone |
| 16:17.58 | brlcad | what's up there now was literally the bare minimum |
| 16:18.56 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: if you are interested in working on it, you're more than welcome ;) |
| 16:19.03 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:19.20 | bjorkBSD | i use vi and ed so minimalism is my middle name. |
| 16:19.27 | brlcad | hah |
| 16:19.38 | bjorkBSD | however, a user manual/info thingy is part of the product |
| 16:19.51 | bjorkBSD | and it really helps make it more use-able. |
| 16:20.03 | bjorkBSD | so ... i'd like to take a stab at it. |
| 16:20.15 | bjorkBSD | don't expect fancy flying gifs though :-S |
| 16:20.22 | brlcad | i'd really at least like to get those documents into CVS, but that's a chore |
| 16:20.24 | bjorkBSD | or umm flash-ey bits and what not. |
| 16:21.05 | bjorkBSD | why the hell not? :D |
| 16:21.08 | brlcad | just fancy flashy flying pngs instead? :) |
| 16:21.11 | bjorkBSD | hahahha |
| 16:21.57 | brlcad | the tutorial series is fairly straightforward .. mainly converting them all to docbook is just grunt work |
| 16:22.23 | bjorkBSD | never used docbook. i'll find out. |
| 16:22.30 | brlcad | the hard question is whether things like the industry diagram can be brought in as anything other than an image |
| 16:23.34 | bjorkBSD | it's a nice wallpaper i tell you. |
| 16:23.52 | brlcad | there's no good/common standard format where I could actually get the diagram back to the tools used to create it |
| 16:24.05 | bjorkBSD | what'd you use? |
| 16:24.26 | brlcad | that was mostly done in indesign |
| 16:25.34 | bjorkBSD | hmm |
| 16:25.41 | brlcad | rather tufteish diagram, I should send it to him to see if he'd comment |
| 16:25.51 | bjorkBSD | hehehehe |
| 16:26.07 | brlcad | it has something like 7 dimensions of data |
| 16:27.10 | bjorkBSD | well, my car's not co-operating with me and it's too cold to go play outside so i should do something. |
| 16:27.21 | bjorkBSD | i might uncover more tutorials to push me along :) |
| 16:28.28 | bjorkBSD | the one i'm using is a little long in the tooth on just a chapter or two which might fit neatly in an appendix. |
| 16:29.12 | ``Erik | brlcad: "main dev platform"? both fink and macports have newer automakes, as does fbsd... :D |
| 16:29.49 | brlcad | ``Erik: your point being? neither of those are provided by default |
| 16:30.01 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 16:30.50 | brlcad | it's only a minor annoyance that have to use _CFLAGS instead of _CPPFLAGS .. hardly worth changing a fundamental version minimum |
| 16:31.31 | brlcad | especially one that would make things a pita in general for the common use |
| 16:32.33 | ``Erik | <-- has always taken the "it's a distributable, so I'll use whatever I have on my system" approach, very few people should be touching the Makefile.am's, and those that should touch them probably have a more recent version or can get it and know what to do :) |
| 16:32.46 | ``Erik | you're not in the building, are you? it's gettin' to be lunch time |
| 16:33.06 | brlcad | nope, I ditched |
| 16:33.19 | bjorkBSD | where do i sign, mr brl? |
| 16:33.29 | ``Erik | dave is disturbingly eager to check out the o club O.o |
| 16:33.29 | bjorkBSD | *signup* |
| 16:33.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: even for just myself.. it would make my daily use a pita as I'd have to change all the macs I work with |
| 16:34.02 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: right here ;) |
| 16:34.14 | ``Erik | ok... all the macs I work with have 1.10 from macports, it's a fundamental to my operation as putting my dock on the side and changing to graphice :) |
| 16:34.20 | ``Erik | graphite |
| 16:34.20 | bjorkBSD | -> bjork is a GODDESS :x |
| 16:34.22 | bjorkBSD | there. done. |
| 16:34.46 | brlcad | that's just because you're a bsd zealot even on the mac ;) |
| 16:35.18 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hehe |
| 16:35.52 | ``Erik | I d'no if I'd say "zealot".. I do have solid expectations of how machines should operate (they should work, be efficient, and let me get my job done with minimal fuss) that drives me towards the bsd's with a certain package load |
| 16:36.09 | brlcad | yeah yeah, it's religion ;) |
| 16:36.38 | ``Erik | heh, at least it's the right one ;> |
| 16:36.49 | brlcad | I appreciate it to, but I also like things working without any effort on my part to "set them up" |
| 16:37.08 | brlcad | when that can be done without a setup cost, sweet |
| 16:37.30 | brlcad | when it can't, se la vie .. another day |
| 16:38.08 | ``Erik | out of the box, a mac needs serious help... gotta get X on it, gotta get Xcode, gotta make some symlinks, ... |
| 16:38.29 | ``Erik | I should stupid one of my macs back to vanilla for testing, I suppose :) |
| 16:38.43 | bjorkBSD | a script! |
| 16:38.52 | bjorkBSD | a setup script! that's what your mac-y needs |
| 16:39.07 | brlcad | technically you don't "gotta get X on it" nor any symlinks, and a compiler is there by default |
| 16:39.25 | ``Erik | hm, all 5 of them are already 'correct', why should I make a script? :D |
| 16:40.00 | bjorkBSD | hehehe to make the 6th one easier to setup. |
| 16:40.05 | ``Erik | hum, I thought out of the box, it didn't have gcc... (unless you use the developer package some versions came with) |
| 16:41.28 | brlcad | I've heard of some getting a system that really had no compiler installed, but I've yet to see one that didn't and those claiming it didn't weren't entirely reputable |
| 16:42.31 | brlcad | might have just been named something different for that matter, they support the "posix compiler" interface too (cc, c89, c90, etc) |
| 16:44.29 | Maloeran | OSX is the "main dev platform"? Gah! |
| 16:44.46 | bjorkBSD | the plot thickens |
| 16:44.52 | bjorkBSD | Maloeran's view dims. |
| 16:45.01 | brlcad | in the end, it still comes down to usability -- if some random user downloads the package and attempts to compile -- it's far easier to tell them to install the dev tools (and even X11) than macports followed by a set of command line things they have to run |
| 16:46.17 | brlcad | Maloeran: philosophy is to run anywhere and everywhere .. "main dev platform" is an extension of where most of the development occurs, not any conscious decision to support any system over any other |
| 16:46.52 | brlcad | if there were active windows devs or linux devs that were out-contributing, that would easily change |
| 16:47.12 | Maloeran | From my limited experience so far, OSX seems a very poor platform performance-wise |
| 16:48.18 | brlcad | a curious statement, really, though only a tiny fraction of the entire equation |
| 16:49.33 | ``Erik | and, yeah, if your code abuses syscalls and you tune it so the abuse is acceptable on one os but not others, the other os's will look poor. Code better. :D |
| 16:50.10 | Maloeran | Erik, test that raytracing benchmark on OSX, you'll see the same issues |
| 16:51.17 | ``Erik | actually, I did with librt, and I didn't see that issue... the mac screamed... not as hard as the opterons, but it stomped the ia32 :) |
| 16:51.56 | Maloeran | I now have a complete memory manager sitting on top of malloc(), but I would be eager to point out that it provides no benefit on Linux |
| 16:53.07 | bjorkBSD | hmmm maybe i should dust off my indigo2 ;) |
| 16:53.09 | ``Erik | (in fact, of all the cpu's and os's I tested, the g5/osX was the #3 spot in performance, the top two being opterons running fbsd and linux. Absolute worst was ia32 (p4-xeon) running linux) |
| 16:53.16 | bjorkBSD | oh it still lacks a monitor. |
| 16:53.23 | bjorkBSD | (to do... splurge on monitor) |
| 16:53.34 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: heh |
| 16:53.41 | brlcad | splurge |
| 16:54.07 | bjorkBSD | yeah. after i develop my inventions in brlcad and sell them, of course :D |
| 16:54.14 | brlcad | cool |
| 16:54.33 | Maloeran | Erik, I guess they are less abusive in large memory allocation/freeing than my graph preparation code |
| 16:54.47 | Maloeran | Even though it's all dynamically allocated |
| 16:55.26 | ``Erik | you should invent and patent a business model for coping with the patent system :D |
| 16:55.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: I actually wrote/ran a malloc analysis tool a few years ago whilest investigating a problem with malloc on 10.2 -- ran the tool across versions of the OS, ran on different hardware, different OSs |
| 16:55.50 | Maloeran | "Patent on how to circumvent patents" |
| 16:56.12 | bjorkBSD | you're patenting google.com/patents? :P |
| 16:56.50 | brlcad | OS X 10.3 and 10.4's malloc performance is actually rather decent in comparison, it was amazingly better than everything else for some allocation sizes, or on par at others |
| 16:57.03 | brlcad | a lot of variability in the lower allocation size ranges |
| 16:57.06 | ``Erik | still got the data handy? and did you just do malloc and free, or did you do calloc and realloc, as well? (realloc tends to be one of the places where abuse really shows the dfiference between dlmalloc and phkmalloc) |
| 16:57.57 | Maloeran | Ah... I don't know the details, but I know that my original graph preparation code would make OSX spend 90% of it's time in "syscalls", due to its aggressive freeing and zero'ing of pages |
| 16:58.01 | brlcad | i ran calloc/realloc at the time and didn't notice really any relative difference on the first few tests, so in the interest of time stopped |
| 16:58.30 | Maloeran | Code than ran in 10 seconds on Linux was taking several minutes on Erik's OSX box, I could hardly believe it |
| 16:58.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: of course, I never get rid of any data ;) |
| 16:59.35 | ``Erik | phkmalloc guarantees contiguous wire memory, so if it cannot cleanly grow the memory, it allocates a new area and copies the data, then frees the old one... dlmalloc dicks with the mmu lsu and just lives with insanely fragmented memory |
| 16:59.59 | Maloeran | Insanely fragment memory is not a problem |
| 17:00.21 | Maloeran | Caching and prefetching work in the process address space, not the translated addresses |
| 17:00.37 | ``Erik | that depends... |
| 17:00.54 | Maloeran | And anyway, realloc() was not the issue, I don't think there's any of that in the prep |
| 17:01.17 | ``Erik | if y ou have something like hotswap domains where you can remove physical memory from a live machine, fragmented memory makes the release code much more complicated (therefore bug prone) |
| 17:01.40 | ``Erik | the ugly and bad of fragmented memory is there, but it's the os's job to cover it up *shrug* |
| 17:02.21 | Maloeran | Sacrificing performance because it's "more bug prone" is not a good argument for me :) |
| 17:02.48 | ``Erik | adrt's initial file reader was something like read a page, realloc, read a page, ... it was ok on linux, but crawled on bsd :) |
| 17:03.05 | Maloeran | Yes, it still does that to collect triangles |
| 17:11.39 | bjorkBSD | hmm. |
| 17:11.48 | bjorkBSD | i have an idea. |
| 17:11.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): include bu.h and link libbu for bu_getopt |
| 17:18.12 | Maloeran | All right, it's decided, it's going to be Clovertown 4 cores dies |
| 18:16.46 | *** join/#brlcad cad46 (n=57a08567@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:29.55 | brlcad | speaking of strongbad feed subscriptions, new one out today =) |
| 18:34.46 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 18:35.04 | ``Erik | erm |
| 18:35.17 | ``Erik | 'strong badathlon' was out a couple days ago, dude |
| 18:35.31 | brlcad | haircut |
| 18:36.03 | ``Erik | huh, not showing up at the webpage |
| 18:37.00 | brlcad | ah, not new |
| 18:37.24 | ``Erik | ah ha... podstar |
| 18:40.04 | brlcad | looks like the feed is set up to dish them out at random, maybe because i'm not "caught up" or somesuch |
| 18:51.15 | ``Erik | brlcad: ports/misc/nut |
| 18:52.28 | ``Erik | curses, so it'd work just fine on that machine in belize :) |
| 19:03.08 | *** join/#brlcad bobbens (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) | |
| 19:06.47 | brlcad | heh, funny |
| 19:43.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/SDLMain.h rise/master/SDLMain.h): unused files |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (52 files in 16 dirs): finish changing all #defined symbols to uppercase... |
| 21:30.03 | *** join/#brlcad pcman (n=524c1dd7@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:30.37 | pcman | hello |
| 21:32.12 | pcman | can somebody help me to see if the BRL-CAD is a right choise for me. many thanks |
| 21:34.18 | brlcad | pcman: howdy |
| 21:34.43 | pcman | hello brlcad |
| 21:34.49 | brlcad | pcman: can you pinpoint your need on this diagram? http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 21:35.01 | brlcad | that might help you see if it's even in the ballpark ;) |
| 21:35.37 | pcman | I am developing application for CAD engineering |
| 21:35.57 | brlcad | owhat sort? |
| 21:36.04 | brlcad | s/ow/of w/ |
| 21:36.05 | pcman | more exatly steel detailing and fabrication software on windows |
| 21:36.24 | pcman | 3d model => details |
| 21:36.36 | brlcad | that's starting to get into the CAM realm, but continue.. |
| 21:36.54 | pcman | from 3d model I create 2d drawings |
| 21:37.13 | brlcad | okay |
| 21:37.18 | pcman | fabrication (assembly) |
| 21:37.24 | pcman | and overview |
| 21:37.43 | pcman | currently I use a brep solid modeler |
| 21:38.13 | brlcad | okay |
| 21:38.30 | brlcad | what sort of 2D drawings to you create? |
| 21:38.42 | brlcad | raster/vector? |
| 21:38.50 | pcman | vector |
| 21:38.50 | brlcad | engineering diagrams? |
| 21:38.58 | pcman | not |
| 21:38.58 | brlcad | ala blueprints |
| 21:39.14 | pcman | not diagams |
| 21:40.16 | pcman | sorry I am not sure about the term |
| 21:40.30 | brlcad | how do you currently use the brep solid modeler (which one?) .. you model something in 3d, output a vector diagram, and feed that to the steel detailing machine? |
| 21:41.07 | pcman | I need to create vectorial 2d cut to a 3d model |
| 21:41.31 | pcman | 3d isometry with hidden line removal |
| 21:42.18 | pcman | the output must be vectorial (I further process it programmatically) |
| 21:42.41 | pcman | for dimension symbols, hatch, etc |
| 21:42.52 | brlcad | hm, brl-cad can generate the latter, but alas not in a vectorized format currently |
| 21:43.00 | brlcad | example: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 21:43.15 | pcman | I saw this thanks |
| 21:43.37 | brlcad | most of the image output is configurable, but it's certainly not vector format |
| 21:43.39 | pcman | the of rtedge is always an image |
| 21:43.45 | pcman | ? |
| 21:43.55 | brlcad | it could be vector format, but it would require source modifications |
| 21:44.00 | brlcad | yes, it is |
| 21:44.30 | pcman | and I can have access pogamatically to it? |
| 21:44.50 | brlcad | i played with some tools that generate a vector image from raster images, but they take a fair bit of hand tweaking to get a good vector rep |
| 21:45.01 | pcman | I see |
| 21:45.13 | brlcad | all of brl-cad source code is available (free, open source) |
| 21:45.30 | pcman | currently I use amodeler (Autodesk) |
| 21:45.58 | pcman | I saw this and seems to be a great application |
| 21:46.42 | pcman | I wanted first to check if it's good for my needs and then to digg into the sourcecode |
| 21:47.12 | brlcad | there is a lot of functionality under the hood, but with minimal investment in some aspects (e.g. user interface, usability, etc) |
| 21:48.14 | pcman | yes. I can understand this. It's not a comercial application |
| 21:48.14 | brlcad | there is an API on the entire geometry layer, so you could certainly use the geometric information in a given model and build up a vectorized 2D projection |
| 21:48.48 | pcman | this is what I need |
| 21:49.10 | brlcad | rtedge under it's current implementation basically shoots some sized grid of rays into the scene and queries the geometry types .. it then evaluates the ray results to determine where there are pixels that span a geometric edge |
| 21:49.53 | brlcad | instead of building up a pixel map, you could build up vectorized outlines (as you do have knowledge of geometry types upon intersection) and use that instead |
| 21:51.17 | pcman | I can find information on each geometry the ray hits? |
| 21:51.28 | brlcad | yep, that's the easiest part ;) |
| 21:51.50 | brlcad | that's basically what all of the rt* apps do |
| 21:52.15 | pcman | I will study it. thanks |
| 21:52.34 | brlcad | src/rt/viewedge.c contains the guts to rtedge in the source code |
| 21:52.56 | brlcad | primitive geometry are all implemented in src/librt/g_*.c |
| 21:53.08 | pcman | thank you very much. |
| 21:53.11 | brlcad | *ideally*, to get what you need.. |
| 21:54.17 | pcman | all of these are under the LGPL licensed parts? |
| 21:54.20 | brlcad | you'd probably modify the primitives to provide a projected 2D representation or even just a BREP form of themselves .. you'd then apply any CSG transformations to the BREP forms and project that onto 2D |
| 21:54.42 | brlcad | all of BRL-CAD's code, even the binaries, are now LGPL |
| 21:55.11 | brlcad | basically all LGPL and BSD code (the build system, benchmark suite, and some helper scripts are BSD licensed) now |
| 21:55.33 | brlcad | that announcement is going to be made with the next 7.10 release next week |
| 21:55.39 | brlcad | though the changes are already in CVS |
| 21:55.52 | pcman | great |
| 21:56.12 | pcman | regarding your last advice |
| 21:56.29 | brlcad | documentation changes from a dual-licensed GPL/GFDL to a variant of the BSD license as well |
| 21:57.15 | brlcad | the last advice is the more involved, but not intractable .. and something others would likely contribute to and help with |
| 21:57.15 | pcman | BSD is ok for comercial apps? |
| 21:57.34 | brlcad | heh, BSD is one of the least restrictive |
| 21:58.07 | brlcad | all BSD basically says is that you can't claim authorship on the parts you didn't write, otherwise you can do pretty much *anything* with the code (even sell it) |
| 21:58.53 | brlcad | doesn't even require return of modifications like the LGPL, though any mods would be appreciated |
| 21:59.08 | pcman | great. |
| 21:59.41 | pcman | If we will choose BRL-CAD we will contibute |
| 22:00.45 | brlcad | glad to hear it |
| 22:01.14 | brlcad | that's one of the great aspects of being open source -- if it doesn't do what you want, you're welcome to make the changes to get it doing what you need |
| 22:01.52 | pcman | I have one more concern regarding model size |
| 22:02.13 | brlcad | there's a couple decades and a couple hundred overall man-years of effort invested as it is, so you get a nice leg up from otherwise starting from scratch |
| 22:03.07 | brlcad | BRL-CAD's support for large models actually exceeds most of the commercial packages -- predominantly limited by your construction approach and hardware specifications (how much memory do you have sort of limits) |
| 22:03.31 | pcman | yes. especially I will never get the budget to invest several years in dev. without results |
| 22:04.27 | pcman | I have around 300,000 solid objects (not complex whan comparing to mechanical) |
| 22:05.11 | brlcad | when you say "solid objects" what do you mean? primitive euclidean geometry or are those "parts" in themselves or something else? |
| 22:05.45 | brlcad | sounds like some simple "parts" if I'm reading you right |
| 22:06.17 | pcman | I call an object for example the brep body representation of a steel beam (with cuts, holes...) |
| 22:06.19 | brlcad | like nuts and bolts, hinges, latches, doors, etc |
| 22:06.28 | brlcad | yeah, okay |
| 22:06.28 | pcman | yes |
| 22:07.22 | pcman | I don't know many things about CSG so I am wondering if it's good to model a building with it |
| 22:08.00 | brlcad | it's definitely a different approach in general than you have with traditional BREP feature-based modeling |
| 22:08.28 | pcman | maybe it's too accurate for me and I loose speed |
| 22:08.51 | brlcad | speed is one of the benefits actually, and compactness of the representation |
| 22:09.27 | brlcad | CSG with primitives is about an order of magnitude smaller than spline surfaced BREPs which in itself is about an order smaller than facetized BREP |
| 22:09.53 | brlcad | the downside is really the modeling approach that it requires, it's more mathematically rigorous |
| 22:11.10 | brlcad | both are solid modeling approaches, so you get the same guarantees on topology and valid representations .. but the modeling interface for how you go about associating things is radically different |
| 22:12.03 | brlcad | as a modeling interface, brl-cad's mged modeler leaves much to be desired -- if you specifically need a solid modeling user tool, you'll probably still end up writing your own interface or at least customize mged for your purposes if you went with brl-cad |
| 22:12.18 | brlcad | that's changing with new interfaces being developed, but we're not there yet |
| 22:12.38 | brlcad | the underlying representation, and api for creating/manipulating geometry is where there's a main benefit |
| 22:12.54 | pcman | this is OK in my case. I only want to use the modeler component. |
| 22:13.32 | pcman | in fact replace the current moder |
| 22:14.45 | pcman | currently I persist in the model only parameters and I create (and cache) facetized bodies for display and algortithms |
| 22:15.47 | pcman | With CSG probably the approach should be different. |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: the script to M-x indent-regions now already exists (indent.sh). just need to |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: run the script on various directories one at a time while making sure |
| 22:16.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: indentation isn't confused by replicated braces in preprocessor wrappings |
| 22:16.28 | brlcad | you could actually do something similar still |
| 22:17.45 | brlcad | brl-cad has an 'intermediate modeler' interface called archer that sort of does something very similar -- it has a concept of storing models in implicit CSG form as well as parameterized to some known template type (e.g. this is a "tank" with a turret this long and this many wheels) .. with facetized versions stashed for opengl display |
| 22:19.22 | pcman | interesting. It's different then mged? I thought it's only another GUI |
| 22:20.41 | brlcad | it is mostly a different gui, wraps what's under mged's hood in different ways, stores things somewhat differently in the .g geometry files |
| 22:21.27 | brlcad | mention it not as something to use (though you certainly can) but as an example of something that performs a somewhat similar task |
| 22:22.41 | pcman | Thank you very much. I will study CSG and BRL-CAD and come back other day. |
| 22:23.15 | brlcad | pcman: sounds good -- if you have any questions, I'm usually here as are several others that should be able to answer questions |
| 22:23.35 | brlcad | the tutorials/guides on the website cover most of the basic approach and design limitations |
| 22:23.44 | pcman | thank you very much. |
| 22:24.11 | pcman | There is available sample code for windows? |
| 22:24.22 | ``Erik | yeah, I'm pretty retarded when it comes to modelling, but those guides were 'nuff to get me able to test my code mods, heh |
| 22:24.24 | brlcad | HACKING file in the source distribution if you're interested in becoming part of the actual dev team (it's an open dev environment) |
| 22:24.59 | brlcad | pcman: most of brl-cad's code, sample or otherwise, works under windows |
| 22:25.25 | brlcad | there's studio build files in misc/ .. two different projects with different purposes |
| 22:25.32 | brlcad | example code spread throughout the package |
| 22:25.53 | brlcad | simple intro on the website: http://brlcad.org/example_app.php |
| 22:26.01 | brlcad | as well as doxygen docs on the website too |
| 22:27.12 | pcman | thank you |
| 22:27.38 | ``Erik | speaking of doxygen; adrt has some doxygen markup, but it's not getting on the webpage... is it ignored on purpose, or is something slipping through the cracks? |
| 22:28.54 | brlcad | ``Erik: probably because there's no group for that code listed in misc/doxygen_structure to key on, nothing in misc/Doxyfile that says exclude it |
| 22:29.35 | brlcad | some of the doxygen markup was just me or justin adding a standard header with a @file section |
| 22:30.22 | ``Erik | there's some function info in there, too |
| 22:30.35 | ``Erik | and structs *shrug* |
| 22:31.10 | brlcad | still, probably just because there's no group for it in the doxygen_struture file |
| 22:31.37 | ``Erik | and try to get some emacs fu, too... heh |
| 22:33.10 | brlcad | emacs fu? |
| 22:33.21 | brlcad | could it be possible? |
| 22:33.25 | brlcad | is erik seeing the light?? |
| 22:33.36 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:34.10 | ``Erik | ... 'slime' interests me. |
| 22:34.26 | dtidrow_work | ouch |
| 22:34.51 | ``Erik | and I'm always willing to learn new things *shrug* I tried ten years ago, before I tried vi |
| 22:35.32 | ``Erik | and it just struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... vi was clean and efficient by comparison *shrug* :) maybe this time around, it'll be a little more interesting to me |
| 22:37.28 | brlcad | yeah, like "calculus struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... basic addition and subtraction was clean and efficient by comparison" |
| 22:37.46 | ``Erik | heh, not exactly the same comparison :) |
| 22:37.52 | brlcad | close :) |
| 22:38.00 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:38.10 | ``Erik | I d'no, vim isn't exactly a slacker editor... |
| 22:38.21 | ``Erik | now if I were saying 'pico' or 'nano', then yeah, you'd have a valid point... |
| 22:38.22 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:38.31 | dtidrow_work | more gasoline on the vi/emacs flamewar.... :-) |
| 22:38.33 | brlcad | never implied that.. heck you can build an entire computer out of a basic ALU ;) |
| 22:38.54 | ``Erik | and if I started jabbering about needing a decent gui ide, I'd hope someone would smack some sense into me |
| 22:39.16 | dtidrow_work | emacs - the original IDE :-) |
| 22:39.27 | dtidrow_work | and windowing system... |
| 22:40.30 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/twinstar_complete.jpg |
| 22:40.55 | Twingy | twice the finger chopping fun! |
| 22:41.00 | Twingy | :D |
| 22:41.39 | Twingy | at least you didn't lose your middle finger |
| 22:42.11 | Twingy | that little parts box is awesome |
| 22:42.17 | Twingy | found it at lowes for $15 |
| 22:43.02 | brlcad | shouldn't that fuel resovoir be on the other side to balance it out? :) |
| 22:43.04 | Twingy | triton charger along with banana to banana, banana to deans, deans to j-type, banana to alligator, and deans to dc all fit up top with the triton charger |
| 22:43.06 | ``Erik | the field box isn't sufficient? |
| 22:43.13 | Twingy | heck no |
| 22:43.36 | brlcad | could use a new paint job |
| 22:43.45 | brlcad | the Justin 2000 |
| 22:43.54 | ``Erik | 'fuel resevoir'? are we lookin' at the same pic? |
| 22:43.58 | Twingy | I haven't put any decals in |
| 22:44.05 | Twingy | I think brlcad went to goatse.cx |
| 22:44.15 | ``Erik | mebbe lemonparty or hai2u |
| 22:44.21 | bjorkBSD | heheh |
| 22:44.35 | brlcad | whatever is got some sort of line into the engine on the left |
| 22:44.44 | ``Erik | that's the muffler |
| 22:44.54 | brlcad | so then that |
| 22:45.03 | Twingy | that weighs like 50 grams |
| 22:45.09 | Twingy | if that |
| 22:45.20 | brlcad | it wasn't for practical/weight reasons.. visual asthetic balance :P |
| 22:45.25 | Twingy | ah |
| 22:45.27 | Twingy | pfft |
| 22:45.28 | ``Erik | int he air, ya wouldn't notice |
| 22:45.41 | ``Erik | if visual asthetic is important, get a ducted fan *shrug* :) |
| 22:45.49 | brlcad | i would.. it'd annoy me all the way to the ground as I repeatedly crashed it by mistake |
| 22:45.49 | ``Erik | aesthetic |
| 22:46.02 | Twingy | so the front nose area can house all of the electronics for my rocket as a testing platform, this plane has about 1.3:1 lift to weight ratio |
| 22:46.22 | ``Erik | those're .25's or .40's? |
| 22:46.28 | Twingy | 0.25 FX's |
| 22:46.38 | Twingy | FX == 18k rpm, regular == 15k rpm |
| 22:46.43 | ``Erik | not the ones with bearings, though |
| 22:46.48 | Twingy | 0.46 == 1.2 HP, (2) 0.25 FX = 1.85 HP |
| 22:47.23 | Twingy | this will do 50-55 mph level |
| 22:47.39 | Twingy | my last plane (the demon plane) did 40-45 mph level |
| 22:47.42 | ``Erik | how heavy is the rocket electronics payload? would it be better to dump those at the cg? |
| 22:47.51 | Twingy | tiny and light |
| 22:47.55 | Twingy | 100 grams maybe |
| 22:47.56 | ``Erik | or just run the battery further back? |
| 22:48.08 | ``Erik | ok, like a watch battery? or a single AAA? |
| 22:48.24 | Twingy | I have a nicad pack that consts of 4 AAA batteries @ 7.2V |
| 22:48.55 | ``Erik | also; is the plane vibration going to be different from rocket vibration? remebering the x10 camera... |
| 22:48.56 | Twingy | smaller than AAA's iirc |
| 22:49.11 | Twingy | yep |
| 22:49.21 | Twingy | that's not going to do anything |
| 22:49.47 | ``Erik | <-- looks forward to hearing about the telementry data :D |
| 22:50.09 | Twingy | haven't built the new circuit (or rocket) yet |
| 22:50.28 | Twingy | this plane will likely get flown once or twice then get grounded while new rocket is under construction |
| 22:51.37 | ``Erik | one of these days, I'll finish that ultrasport 40 |
| 22:51.49 | bjorkBSD | why don't you build something you can fly in? |
| 22:52.31 | ``Erik | bjork: that'd be really expensive... not just in parts, but in certification as well... |
| 22:52.32 | Twingy | it'd be alot cheaper to just buy a phillipino kid to start your plane for you |
| 22:52.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:53.07 | Twingy | they used to be rampant on ebay... |
| 22:53.54 | Twingy | "Look boss Zee plane boss, Zee plane!" |
| 22:53.54 | ``Erik | looks like it quit snowing |
| 22:54.25 | ``Erik | locked cage in the back of the cave? :) |
| 22:54.35 | Twingy | 2400 sq ft house, and I spend 80% of my time awake in a 6x10 room |
| 22:54.45 | bjorkBSD | certification? parts? |
| 22:54.54 | bjorkBSD | you don't need either for a paramotor or an ultralight! |
| 22:55.09 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, you couldn't fly those here, it's too developed |
| 22:55.16 | bjorkBSD | where's 'here'? |
| 22:55.21 | ``Erik | ultralights have pretty strict guidelines on altitude, weight, horse power, etc... |
| 22:55.29 | ``Erik | baltimore |
| 22:55.44 | bjorkBSD | yeah it's still ME flying vs squinting at a fly |
| 22:55.45 | ``Erik | in the city, the gang bangers would shoot at you... away from the city, the rednecks would shoot at you... |
| 22:55.47 | bjorkBSD | ah. |
| 22:55.51 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 22:55.57 | bjorkBSD | i live in f'vlle, AR |
| 22:56.15 | ``Erik | I would've guessed kansas city |
| 22:56.16 | bjorkBSD | there's plenny of country to go around. |
| 22:56.16 | Twingy | so you'd have rednecks shooting at you |
| 22:56.26 | bjorkBSD | no. worse. hill billys! |
| 22:56.33 | bjorkBSD | 'cause you'll be close enough to their homes. |
| 22:56.37 | ``Erik | <-- used to live in springfield, missoura |
| 22:57.34 | ``Erik | hillbillies are amusing :) |
| 22:57.51 | bjorkBSD | yeah. they go hun'n for 'coons a lot. |
| 22:57.59 | bjorkBSD | and they're liable to miss every now and then. |
| 22:58.21 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:58.29 | Twingy | once I get gerber junk in gcam I'll make the boards |
| 22:58.42 | ``Erik | twingy: for your interesting stuff, are you using an OS (like centos or qnx or something), or coding on the metal? |
| 22:59.28 | Twingy | I have alot of interesting stuff, is this work or home related? |
| 22:59.32 | bjorkBSD | 'interesting stuff'? |
| 23:00.39 | ``Erik | (also; sorry to poop on the party, but if I understand correct... tie_push() takes a blind pointer that you can associate to anything and retrieve in the hit function?) |
| 23:00.43 | ``Erik | work... are you actually coding embedded stuff (other than pic) at home? heh :) |
| 23:01.15 | Twingy | a pointer to an array of pointers with a stride, the stride is the index to each pointer |
| 23:01.22 | Twingy | typically 4 for 32-bit, 8 for 64-bit |
| 23:01.54 | ``Erik | ok, is that per triangle, or is that a set associated with each triangle? |
| 23:02.45 | Twingy | per triangle |
| 23:02.56 | Twingy | feel tree to make a version more apropos to your application |
| 23:03.04 | ``Erik | (or if you'd rather, where's the best place to start reading code to figure it out... I'm trying to build something akin to a greatly simplified librt partition list) |
| 23:03.43 | Twingy | well, the one day you looked at libtie and said all this pointer junk is obfuscated I started adding comments galore |
| 23:03.53 | Twingy | there should be almost 1:1 ratio between comments and code |
| 23:04.09 | ``Erik | heh, I've already been changing conventions to make it feel more 'normal' to me... all the defined symbols got changed to uppercase, for example :) I'm operating under the notion that you don't give a rats ass anymore and rf will supercede it |
| 23:04.38 | ``Erik | but I'm on the hook to prove that rf meets or misses the arbitrary 5x factor |
| 23:04.44 | Twingy | it's there as an off the shelf 'thing' for you to take and twist/warp to your application |
| 23:05.26 | Twingy | it's so small that it's really easy to go in and change the API all around |
| 23:06.09 | ``Erik | ok, other stupid question; tie_work() processes just to the next hit? so to shoot all the way through, I'd have to keep calling it until it says it missed? |
| 23:06.46 | Twingy | the hit callback you pass to tie_work continues to get called until it returns something non-NULL |
| 23:06.56 | ``Erik | ah, 'k |
| 23:07.00 | Twingy | very inefficient |
| 23:07.09 | ``Erik | thanks :) hopefully you'll never hear about libtie again :D |
| 23:07.19 | Twingy | but brl-cad style and what was suggested to be at the time of implementation |
| 23:07.28 | Twingy | I don't mind either way |
| 23:08.02 | ``Erik | (doncha hate when people in mgmt roles make technical decisions? they're never the right ones...) |
| 23:08.03 | Twingy | I'm not into annexing myself from previous work, I just can't spend all of my time on it anymore |
| 23:08.20 | Twingy | why do you think I left? |
| 23:08.40 | bjorkBSD | the plane had to be built! |
| 23:08.42 | Twingy | I'm honestly surprised more people haven't left yet |
| 23:08.42 | brlcad | not enough cheese poofs |
| 23:08.43 | bjorkBSD | j/k :P |
| 23:09.11 | Twingy | I don't even like visiting that building any more cause of the anxiety it gives me |
| 23:09.18 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:09.21 | Twingy | comparatively speaking |
| 23:09.25 | Twingy | i didn't realize it until I left |
| 23:09.31 | Twingy | and then a month later I came back |
| 23:09.40 | Twingy | and just felt like a wave of stress |
| 23:09.42 | ``Erik | you still need to give a subset of coworkers a tour of your new digs :D |
| 23:09.55 | bjorkBSD | wait, is brlcad a secret project to turn aliens into fish? :( |
| 23:09.59 | Twingy | wendy and I set something up before christmas, but she canceled it |
| 23:10.10 | ``Erik | have ya talked to bob or paul lately? :D |
| 23:10.16 | Twingy | I haven't heard anything since |
| 23:10.51 | Twingy | lately? no, I probably won't interface with them ever again since we are in completely different lines of work now |
| 23:11.12 | ``Erik | if the opportunity arose, I'd just go check it out, I'm done asking for wendys permission or input |
| 23:11.58 | Twingy | well, I can tell you that if you stay there for another year things will probably be different, if you can't last that long then I'd suggest moving somewhere else |
| 23:13.10 | ``Erik | heh, I keep getting requests from google and yahoo, and I'm half interested in doing the 'start a company' thing again. Of course, if I did that route, I'd find someone to play the sales/marketing/business side, I HATED that and was not good at it |
| 23:13.43 | ``Erik | sucked 'nuff that I just quit once I hit the break-even point |
| 23:13.50 | ``Erik | and went and got a 'real' job |
| 23:14.53 | Twingy | the sig rascal is a nice plane too |
| 23:15.03 | Twingy | if I had the money I might buy that |
| 23:15.35 | ``Erik | that's a bigger one |
| 23:15.59 | Twingy | http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCXT9&P=0 |
| 23:16.02 | ``Erik | damn, $400 |
| 23:16.23 | Twingy | but that would fly so smooth |
| 23:16.30 | Twingy | even in light winds |
| 23:17.09 | ``Erik | nothing on the site about lift ratio |
| 23:17.16 | Twingy | I will probably build my next plane on my cnc mill out of foam and balsa |
| 23:17.28 | Twingy | the rascal would be a fun fly |
| 23:17.30 | ``Erik | using someone elses plans? or a complete new work? |
| 23:17.40 | bjorkBSD | you have a mil? |
| 23:17.48 | Twingy | a continuation of something I started after I switched over |
| 23:17.52 | bjorkBSD | *mill. |
| 23:18.01 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, http://gcam.js.cx |
| 23:18.08 | louipc | !! you have a CNC mill!? |
| 23:18.15 | louipc | *envy* |
| 23:18.16 | ``Erik | <-- always thought it'd be fun to design an r/c plane |
| 23:18.44 | bjorkBSD | oh shit! |
| 23:18.47 | Twingy | well, brian and I might design a larger cnc mill in our spare time using the taig |
| 23:18.50 | bjorkBSD | i just got a <bleep> |
| 23:18.52 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.04 | bjorkBSD | oh you have a TAIG! ohhh |
| 23:19.11 | bjorkBSD | that's not terribly cheap. |
| 23:19.13 | louipc | what's a taig? |
| 23:19.19 | bjorkBSD | but you can buy it in bits. |
| 23:19.31 | bjorkBSD | it's a micro-mill/lathe maker. |
| 23:19.35 | bjorkBSD | do you have a lathe as well? |
| 23:19.42 | Twingy | I had one, but I gave it away |
| 23:19.56 | Twingy | I am going to buy a real one at some point |
| 23:19.59 | bjorkBSD | funny. i don't see a lathe on my table :| |
| 23:20.00 | louipc | ooh they look like conventional machines fitted with power feed har |
| 23:20.02 | Twingy | I don't need one at the moment |
| 23:20.08 | bjorkBSD | really?! |
| 23:20.09 | Twingy | I have one at work |
| 23:20.12 | bjorkBSD | oh! |
| 23:20.16 | louipc | and I guess numeric control of course |
| 23:20.17 | bjorkBSD | ah. but of course. |
| 23:21.03 | brlcad | Twingy: seem to be doing well in Italy :) |
| 23:21.06 | Twingy | best $1800 I ever spent |
| 23:21.21 | Twingy | brlcad, yea, what's all that about? |
| 23:21.36 | brlcad | dunno, but sounds like a road trip! |
| 23:21.49 | Twingy | boat trip? |
| 23:21.57 | brlcad | woot |
| 23:22.02 | Twingy | or did you imply I should cnc mill a water proof car? |
| 23:22.13 | brlcad | a submarine |
| 23:22.15 | louipc | hehe |
| 23:22.15 | brlcad | a yellow one |
| 23:22.23 | Twingy | hrm, that might take a while :) |
| 23:22.33 | Twingy | it'd be about 10,000 parts |
| 23:22.33 | ``Erik | (someone hittin' the happy juice this evening?) |
| 23:22.35 | brlcad | build it .. "in bits" :) |
| 23:22.45 | louipc | you need a mini welder too |
| 23:22.45 | bjorkBSD | damn. i want a workshop very very badly. |
| 23:23.18 | Twingy | I haven't tried my new aluminum casting setup yet |
| 23:23.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:23.24 | bjorkBSD | yeah i can buy one at harborfreight for relatively little. |
| 23:23.31 | Twingy | I have some granite slabs and a jig with a metal trashcan filled with 250lbs of sand |
| 23:23.31 | bjorkBSD | but their lathes/mills are POSs |
| 23:23.52 | bjorkBSD | ah you're a metal worker and you have a forge and stuff? |
| 23:24.04 | Twingy | if you call melting aluminum metal working |
| 23:24.07 | Twingy | then yes |
| 23:24.11 | bjorkBSD | heheh |
| 23:24.24 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 23:24.25 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/ |
| 23:24.40 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_aluminum2.jpg |
| 23:25.06 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_block1.jpg |
| 23:25.12 | Twingy | that's what I do with soda cans |
| 23:25.14 | brlcad | that's a lot of cans |
| 23:25.20 | Twingy | and 6061 scrap |
| 23:25.26 | brlcad | ahh, cheated ;) |
| 23:25.36 | Twingy | I add 1% zinc |
| 23:25.50 | bjorkBSD | it sits on a table! |
| 23:25.50 | brlcad | for that silky smooth feeling? |
| 23:25.54 | bjorkBSD | i can have one in my kitchen :-? |
| 23:26.14 | Twingy | I can sell those blocks for $15 - $20 |
| 23:26.26 | brlcad | heh, you're asking the guy that sets off rockets that are just a couple screws short of being a pipe bomb.. ;) |
| 23:26.28 | louipc | you machined that whole block with that tiny cutter? haha |
| 23:26.32 | ``Erik | what's the fuel cost to make one? :D |
| 23:26.45 | Twingy | louipc, yep |
| 23:26.51 | ``Erik | propane high output burner, right? so a tank is pretty cheap? |
| 23:26.53 | Twingy | ``Erik, $3 in propane |
| 23:27.04 | ``Erik | coo' |
| 23:27.13 | Twingy | 1 tank does about 8 castings |
| 23:27.22 | louipc | you need to get a facemill methinks |
| 23:27.22 | brlcad | mm.. tanks |
| 23:27.48 | louipc | that's pretty cool though |
| 23:27.57 | bjorkBSD | so Twingy, have you built a tesla coil lately? :D |
| 23:28.07 | Twingy | no, just a coil gun :) |
| 23:28.16 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.28 | bjorkBSD | what made you wanna build a forge? |
| 23:28.51 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/tmp/ |
| 23:29.24 | Twingy | that was my first |
| 23:29.52 | Twingy | that charging circuit was a kodak disposable camera |
| 23:32.06 | Twingy | hehe |
| 23:32.08 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/tmp/rocket1.png |
| 23:32.11 | Twingy | priceless |
| 23:33.09 | bjorkBSD | what's nurbana? |
| 23:33.14 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:33.38 | Twingy | it's nothing more than a memory :) |
| 23:35.10 | brlcad | it was the next "rhino", left to rot after lack of feed .. and then carved up for it's meat on the open market, right? ;) |
| 23:35.41 | Twingy | that pretty much sums it up |
| 23:35.44 | bjorkBSD | heheh. |
| 23:35.51 | bjorkBSD | what's wrong with brlCad twingy? |
| 23:35.59 | bjorkBSD | it's like rhino. only ... umm. |
| 23:36.13 | Twingy | I didn't know about brl-cad in 1999 |
| 23:36.22 | bjorkBSD | that was a long long time ago. |
| 23:36.31 | ``Erik | also; brl-cad isn't exactly rocking at nurbs... |
| 23:36.39 | brlcad | nor was it as readily open to use like it is today |
| 23:36.39 | bjorkBSD | no? |
| 23:37.03 | brlcad | there's nurbs support, pretty extensive, but incomplete and slow |
| 23:37.06 | bjorkBSD | hmm it still makes people flee in horror on first contact |
| 23:37.21 | brlcad | that's a lot of the work going on this year.. to totally reimplement the nurbs support (hence all the opennurbs stuff) |
| 23:37.44 | brlcad | yeah, mged is a major wart |
| 23:38.04 | brlcad | one that can actually cure cancer, but a wart nonetheless |
| 23:38.25 | ``Erik | thermonuclear masochism device? |
| 23:39.31 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 23:44.26 | Twingy | I still vividly remember the day when Lisa announced that Wendy got the branch chief position and everyone frowned at once, haha |
| 23:44.40 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 23:46.07 | bjorkBSD | damn |
| 23:46.11 | bjorkBSD | how do i get out of jove? :( |
| 23:46.17 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:46.18 | brlcad | hah |
| 23:46.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:46.28 | bjorkBSD | i didn't even know it was here until you mentioned it. |
| 23:46.28 | ``Erik | jove--, vi++ |
| 23:46.40 | brlcad | that's the "trick" .. they've been stuck in jove for 20+years ;) |
| 23:47.06 | brlcad | try ctrl-x-c or ctrl-x ctrl-c |
| 23:47.11 | ``Erik | (seriosuly, the "search for a real editor; is emacs found? no? build jove" shit is uncool) :D |
| 23:47.35 | dtidrow_work | Twingy: some things you could build with that mill of yours: http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/photo2.htm |
| 23:47.41 | Twingy | if jove00, and vi++, then nano^=1 ? |
| 23:48.03 | Twingy | yep |
| 23:48.10 | Twingy | I have a stirling and a steam engine on my lifes todo list |
| 23:48.24 | ``Erik | what kind of steam engine? |
| 23:48.32 | ``Erik | ece reciprocal? |
| 23:48.41 | dtidrow_work | I've been to their expo, back when it and I were both still in Michigan |
| 23:48.42 | bjorkBSD | i want a machine shop :( |
| 23:48.54 | bjorkBSD | impossible! |
| 23:48.57 | bjorkBSD | are you talking about a kettle? |
| 23:49.03 | ``Erik | teh sterling engine out of soda cans was cool |
| 23:49.12 | brlcad | nope, it's a real steam engine.. a small one, but real |
| 23:49.19 | bjorkBSD | wow! how'd you get it? |
| 23:49.36 | brlcad | long time ago as a kid |
| 23:49.45 | brlcad | hobby shop had one iirc |
| 23:49.58 | ``Erik | functional steam engine... |
| 23:50.22 | dtidrow_work | they run off compressed air, too |
| 23:50.47 | brlcad | a little bit like this, but actually a little smaller and with front wheels too ;) http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/01-20L.jpg |
| 23:50.58 | ``Erik | anything with a pressure differential, actually |
| 23:51.21 | ``Erik | steam involves a state change, so there's a huge pressure differential from a fairly minor temperature change |
| 23:51.28 | ``Erik | weee, thermo |
| 23:53.34 | brlcad | here we go: http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/wid365big.jpg |
| 23:53.43 | brlcad | i thought about making a cad model of that at one point |
| 23:53.59 | brlcad | didn't want to take it apart though.. |
| 23:56.08 | brlcad | good stuff: http://www.toysteam.net/ |
| 23:56.08 | brlcad | heh, this would be cool to mill Twingy: http://www.neatstuff.net/space-robots/Steambot-ST-II.html |
| 23:56.42 | brlcad | "please feed me water.. *mauuuuwww*" |
| 23:58.15 | ``Erik | ah, a steam tractor, even |
| 23:58.31 | ``Erik | the one I saw at the exchange was a stnading engine, not a tractor :) just a boiler and piston |
| 23:58.54 | brlcad | they have one of those too |
| 23:59.02 | brlcad | the locomotive is more interesting |
| 23:59.43 | ``Erik | 8? hah |
| 23:59.47 | ``Erik | might as well be using a single core |
| 23:59.48 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:02.39 | Maloeran | Eh, it will come handy to test and improve scalability, play with global illumination, SURVICE's fire simulations, AI |
| 00:03.45 | ``Erik | heh, the 2048 machien is useless |
| 00:04.01 | Maloeran | How so? |
| 00:04.01 | bjorkBSD | Maloeran, do you work for SURVICE? |
| 00:04.03 | ``Erik | the 16 core machine is useless, the best I have that's useful is 12 |
| 00:04.16 | Maloeran | As a consultant, bjorkBSD |
| 00:04.34 | bjorkBSD | cool! is their version of brl-cad different? |
| 00:04.35 | Maloeran | How are they useless, it requires paperwork to get to use them? |
| 00:05.00 | ``Erik | the 2048 machine has a cummulative load of more than 2000 |
| 00:05.08 | ``Erik | the 16 core machine has a load of more than 20. |
| 00:05.18 | ``Erik | the 12 core machine has a load of like .2 |
| 00:05.19 | Maloeran | They are developing software built on top of BRL-CAD, such as Archer, I wouldn't know if their "version" is "different".. |
| 00:05.26 | brlcad | their version is not different, they just print up everything onto CD and create hard-copy user manuals as if you'd bought a boxed copy |
| 00:06.09 | Maloeran | Nice Erik, that's what you get for using shared hardware |
| 00:06.11 | brlcad | they also provide pre-compiled binaries and perform their own testing (including for windows, for example) |
| 00:06.18 | bjorkBSD | oh. |
| 00:06.39 | Maloeran | I'll get some AMD's Barcelone chips when they come out too, if you want an account on my home mini-cluster :) |
| 00:06.44 | ``Erik | (many uneducated users look at a machines ability as a simple number of cpu's... they dont' subtract load from that... they don't understand the real difference between arch, os, clocks, etc) |
| 00:07.08 | bjorkBSD | that's non-marketing speak, erik! |
| 00:07.09 | ``Erik | obviously; the 8 cpu irix box is faster than the 1 processor linux box. because 8>1 |
| 00:07.29 | ``Erik | n/m that the irix box has 150mhz r10k's and the linux box has a 3.6ghz |
| 00:07.47 | bjorkBSD | how much is the 8cpu irix box? |
| 00:07.58 | ``Erik | oh, and the irix box has a load of 15, and the linux box has 0.00 |
| 00:08.02 | bjorkBSD | $98,000.00 without a keyboard, monitor, or mouse. |
| 00:08.23 | ``Erik | keyboards, monitors, and mice are not for machines that do real work. |
| 00:08.28 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.44 | ``Erik | you sit at a pretty graphical machine, maybe it can play videos and look at web pages |
| 00:08.52 | ``Erik | but crunch happens on machines in another room, mebbe another building |
| 00:09.59 | bjorkBSD | so how much does the 8 thing cost? |
| 00:10.37 | Maloeran | It's 3k$ for a nice Xeon Clovertown 8 cores, if you would prefer that |
| 00:11.07 | ``Erik | clovertown is a dual core die? |
| 00:11.13 | ``Erik | 4x2 ? |
| 00:11.31 | Maloeran | 4 cores on a die, the latest Intel chip |
| 00:11.36 | ``Erik | ah, 2x4 |
| 00:11.44 | Maloeran | They don't produce motherboards with 4 sockets unfortunately |
| 00:12.05 | Maloeran | But their memory bus wouldn't support that anyway, I think it's already going to be saturated with 8 cores |
| 00:12.16 | dtidrow_work | when is the quad-core Opterons coming out? |
| 00:12.21 | ``Erik | I think the opteron machien I'm working on these days is 4 seperate sockets... might be 2x2... twingy spec'd it, monarch built it, I just do os shit |
| 00:12.29 | Maloeran | Second quarter of 2007, they said |
| 00:12.57 | dtidrow_work | and I know they have quad-socket opteron mobos.... |
| 00:12.57 | brlcad | where altix shines is that you can go up to 512 processors in a single image.. that is .. very cool |
| 00:13.08 | dtidrow_work | yep |
| 00:13.11 | Maloeran | They have 8 sockets opteron motherboards actually |
| 00:13.12 | brlcad | no matter what the price, that's the top of the line |
| 00:13.31 | dtidrow_work | well, I've seen the four-socket ones |
| 00:13.36 | brlcad | with the price, it's quite expensive compared to a cluster based solution |
| 00:13.49 | Maloeran | brlcad, I really wonder how that single huge memory bank can cope with the ever growing number of cores |
| 00:13.59 | Maloeran | AMD's NUMA is a simple and elegant solution |
| 00:14.10 | brlcad | licensed from sgi :) |
| 00:14.12 | dtidrow_work | Altix is NUMA |
| 00:14.20 | Maloeran | Altix is NUMA as well? Oh. |
| 00:14.22 | ``Erik | is it numa? |
| 00:14.26 | ``Erik | altix is numa, yes |
| 00:14.27 | brlcad | it came from them |
| 00:14.29 | dtidrow_work | SGI has had NUMA systems for a decade now |
| 00:14.32 | ``Erik | with big honkin' cables out the butt |
| 00:14.36 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 00:14.43 | ``Erik | almost as big as my forearm (I have narrow bones) |
| 00:14.47 | brlcad | which in turn came from an earlier craylink variant when sgi acquired cray |
| 00:14.54 | dtidrow_work | the Onyx2's were NUMA |
| 00:16.15 | brlcad | they've got it scaling nearly linearly up towards 512 processors.. but then I've read they've not been able to scale linearly much past that |
| 00:16.39 | dtidrow_work | I wonder why |
| 00:16.39 | brlcad | course that in itself is a major feat.. something nobody else can do still |
| 00:17.02 | dtidrow_work | indeed - a Linux-based kernel running on 512 CPU's :-) |
| 00:17.07 | brlcad | IBM is probably closest.. but they peak out way before 512 with P5 |
| 00:18.11 | dtidrow_work | is S_I (they dropped the 'G' last year) still circling the drain, or have they stabilized? |
| 00:18.34 | Maloeran | You'll have to sacrifice a few processors to "manage" others as it grows, but it should still scale very well if they got the memory architecture right |
| 00:19.47 | brlcad | dropped the G? I know they dropped the markey, but not a name change |
| 00:19.52 | brlcad | s/markey/market/ |
| 00:20.23 | dtidrow_work | well, that's my name for them now |
| 00:20.26 | brlcad | ah, heh |
| 00:20.52 | dtidrow_work | read, "S-blank-I" ;-) |
| 00:21.32 | Maloeran | Cool, the Gambian President announced that he can cure AIDS in 3 days |
| 00:21.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: aside from the OS needing to be custom tailored, that's what's particularly cool about what the altix does .. there's no special processing nodes or otherwise limitation on the architecture .. it acts like one massive 512-core machine |
| 00:22.24 | Maloeran | It sounds quite neat, brlcad. I read briefly about the arch but it wasn't technical enough ; I even thought it was one main memory bank and not NUMA |
| 00:23.14 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 00:23.41 | Twingy | 2 cpus dual core |
| 00:27.40 | Maloeran | Dual-core is so 2006. :) |
| 00:30.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (172 files in 32 dirs): |
| 00:30.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the zlib website, |
| 00:30.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: this eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding invalid |
| 00:30.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a potential security |
| 00:30.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data (VU#680620 / |
| 00:30.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for details. |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the zlib website, |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: this eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding invalid |
| 00:31.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a potential security |
| 00:31.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data (VU#680620 / |
| 00:31.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for details. |
| 00:39.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: follow zlib's makefile and generate example and minigzip binaries (test compilation/linking if anything). make them noinst. |
| 00:39.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/.cvsignore: add example and minigzip |
| 00:44.33 | louipc | Maloeran: so what's the new trend for 2007? |
| 00:46.56 | bjorkBSD | more screen time :) |
| 00:47.38 | louipc | hahaha |
| 01:04.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: example.c doesn't belong in the library |
| 01:54.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 13 dirs): remove duplication of zlib's public headers from our include/ dir; have configure provide a LIBZ_CPPFLAGS that points to src/other/zlib instead. |
| 02:01.09 | Maloeran | Sean, how many people get an email every time you commit? :) |
| 02:02.33 | brlcad | heh, dunno exactly |
| 02:03.10 | brlcad | not a massive list, some join all the lists and then shortly after unsubscribe to commits .. :) |
| 02:04.06 | Maloeran | I wonder why! :) |
| 02:07.58 | Twingy | hooray grapes |
| 02:14.13 | Twingy | I love this charger |
| 02:15.01 | Twingy | backlit blue lcd, programmable to charge/discharge user selectable cycles, current, battery type, figures out how many cells in the battery, doesn't get any better |
| 02:20.19 | Twingy | I hate how opengl display lists store the modelview matrix and use that in glGetDoublev instead of the current one |
| 02:23.42 | Twingy | <Raven> I tried setting my hotmail password to penis. <Raven> It said my password wasn't long enough. :( |
| 02:28.39 | louipc | high tech |
| 02:29.31 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:29.35 | Twingy | back in the day |
| 02:29.44 | Twingy | I'd have to wait 15 hours for both batteries to recharge |
| 02:29.52 | Twingy | cause all you had was the trickle charger |
| 02:30.12 | Twingy | granted even today that ensures the longest possible battery life |
| 02:30.31 | Twingy | but I don't mind losing 10% of my battery cycles if I can go from 15 hours to 15 minutes |
| 02:30.59 | Twingy | battery died at the field, time to go home |
| 02:31.10 | Twingy | now if it dies at the field, wait 20 minutes and you are up in the air again |
| 02:31.57 | bjorkBSD | Twingy have you ever read any of gingery's books? |
| 02:32.25 | louipc | I'd like nuclear power in a battery |
| 02:32.59 | Twingy | I don't have time to read books |
| 02:33.08 | Twingy | I'm always building something or writing code |
| 02:33.19 | Twingy | and when I'm not doing that I'm passed out on my bed |
| 02:34.06 | Twingy | the last book I read and enjoyed was NURBS - a Monograph in visual communications |
| 02:35.34 | bjorkBSD | he wrote a series on building a machine shop from scrap. |
| 02:36.07 | Twingy | okay... |
| 02:36.30 | louipc | nice |
| 02:36.57 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:37.01 | louipc | I still wonder how the first straightedge was created |
| 02:37.22 | bjorkBSD | with a spirit level :-j |
| 02:37.33 | louipc | or how they go the first lathes to run perfectly true |
| 02:37.59 | bjorkBSD | it was trial after trial after trial. |
| 02:38.12 | bjorkBSD | then they looked at the horizon and it matched. |
| 02:38.17 | Twingy | louipc, a piece of string and a rock, let gravity do the work? |
| 02:38.35 | bjorkBSD | or they used a string. |
| 02:38.55 | Twingy | that's how I'dve done it *shrug* |
| 02:39.44 | louipc | I'm just imagining to make accurate machines you need machines, but you need them to be very accurate as well |
| 02:40.24 | Twingy | that was true until laser measurement came around |
| 02:40.37 | louipc | but I guess you could make a precise machine from a not-as-precise machine but it would be very tough |
| 02:40.45 | louipc | hehe they didn't have lasers back in the day |
| 02:40.46 | Twingy | now you just use the phase angle and you've got perfect measurement |
| 03:33.04 | Maloeran | What the... Gentoo dropped xmms, for some reason, it's out of the package tree entirely |
| 03:34.09 | Twingy | spyware! |
| 03:34.32 | bjorkBSD | Twingy, what kinda projects do you work on? |
| 03:34.37 | bjorkBSD | ... in your shop, ie. |
| 03:37.35 | Maloeran | Official reason : "Gentoo can't afford to offer unmaintained packages" |
| 03:38.49 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, you mean my garage? |
| 03:39.45 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 03:40.10 | Twingy | well, my big project I'm gearing up for is my next generation rocket motors |
| 03:40.18 | Twingy | getting away from the monopropellant stuff |
| 03:40.31 | Twingy | and to do that I needed a cnc mill and software for it |
| 03:40.35 | louipc | yep gentoo annoyed the heck out of me so I switched to archlinux |
| 03:40.39 | louipc | I love it |
| 03:40.42 | Twingy | and I wasn't about to spend $$$ on cnc software |
| 03:40.52 | Twingy | so I hit source forge |
| 03:40.56 | Twingy | and didn't find crap |
| 03:40.57 | bjorkBSD | heheheh |
| 03:41.02 | bjorkBSD | and now you have to write your own. |
| 03:41.06 | Twingy | right |
| 03:41.09 | Twingy | and 1 year later |
| 03:41.09 | louipc | making packages is easy too I'm making one for BRLCAD |
| 03:41.14 | Twingy | I have cnc software |
| 03:41.19 | bjorkBSD | wonderful! |
| 03:41.24 | Twingy | and now I can make my rocket motors |
| 03:41.35 | Twingy | I still need to be able to make pcb's |
| 03:41.41 | bjorkBSD | i don't have space for a foundry. |
| 03:41.41 | louipc | Twingy: you do 3D work on the CNC? |
| 03:41.46 | Twingy | which requires spending 2-3 weeks parsing gerber files |
| 03:41.54 | bjorkBSD | or i'd be sandcasting the parts for a lathe right now. |
| 03:41.57 | Twingy | louipc, 2.5D planar and soon radial |
| 03:42.13 | Twingy | stop calling it a foundry |
| 03:42.17 | louipc | hehehe |
| 03:42.19 | Twingy | it's a pile of bricks and a $100 torch |
| 03:42.23 | bjorkBSD | hahaha |
| 03:42.38 | bjorkBSD | i'll turn off my gas and call it a space heater. |
| 03:42.44 | bjorkBSD | yours melts everything right? |
| 03:42.47 | louipc | 2.5 = not all 3 Axis at once? |
| 03:42.55 | louipc | *moving at once |
| 03:43.04 | Twingy | it'll sustain 1kg object at 1700F no problem |
| 03:43.21 | Twingy | louipc, 2.5 means it can't do concave |
| 03:43.28 | bjorkBSD | will i win a darwin award if i had it in my kitchen? |
| 03:43.37 | Twingy | you have to build a jig and reposition or use 4th axis radial |
| 03:43.45 | Twingy | no |
| 03:43.53 | Twingy | friend of mine has a taig in his dorm |
| 03:43.54 | louipc | well depends on your cutter |
| 03:43.58 | Twingy | he built a box around it |
| 03:44.04 | Twingy | so swarf doesn't fly everywhere |
| 03:44.13 | bjorkBSD | i can see having a lathe or a mill ... |
| 03:44.14 | louipc | yeah good idea |
| 03:44.24 | bjorkBSD | but the expensive torch is another story. |
| 03:44.26 | louipc | put in some coolant too ;) |
| 03:44.37 | Twingy | you don't need coolant for aluminum |
| 03:45.01 | Twingy | you just run it at 2.0 ipm @ 0.01" layers |
| 03:45.11 | louipc | you can increase your speeds and get better finish |
| 03:45.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test opennurbs regardless of setting. ws, indent to 4 and tab at 8 like everything else for the entire functionality section. |
| 03:45.27 | Twingy | louipc, you can also do a final pass @ 0.001" and get same result |
| 03:45.43 | Twingy | I also polish my stuff |
| 03:45.47 | Twingy | I have a floor drill press |
| 03:45.51 | Twingy | I put in my buffer |
| 03:45.55 | Twingy | hit it with some rouge |
| 03:46.00 | louipc | too many operations! |
| 03:46.00 | Twingy | and spend 30 seconds polishing |
| 03:46.05 | louipc | oh ok hah |
| 03:46.25 | Twingy | depends on if you want it shiney or not |
| 03:46.46 | Twingy | gcam.js.cx |
| 03:46.48 | bjorkBSD | Twingy, do you have a url for your thingIamNotGonnaCallAFurnaceButBurnsRealHot ? |
| 03:46.49 | Twingy | that was polished |
| 03:46.49 | louipc | do you know if there are any addons to emacs or vim for NC editing? |
| 03:47.06 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/ |
| 03:47.12 | bjorkBSD | the plans for building one? |
| 03:47.20 | Twingy | louipc, download gcam |
| 03:47.24 | Twingy | you won't need to edit |
| 03:47.32 | Twingy | bjorkBSD, plans? |
| 03:47.38 | louipc | I do a lot of manual programming |
| 03:47.38 | Twingy | goto home depot and spend $10 on bricks |
| 03:47.57 | bjorkBSD | and the torch? |
| 03:47.57 | Twingy | they won't last as long as fire bricks |
| 03:48.03 | Twingy | hybridburners.com |
| 03:48.07 | Twingy | "Shorty" |
| 03:48.24 | louipc | gnucam eh? |
| 03:48.28 | Twingy | got the website from a guy that taught a ray-tracing session at siggraph |
| 03:48.32 | Twingy | louipc, yes |
| 03:49.55 | bjorkBSD | hah! |
| 03:50.10 | bjorkBSD | they're not terribly cheap but it should be manageable :-? |
| 03:50.41 | Twingy | it um, takes some trial and error |
| 03:51.06 | Twingy | eventually your adhoc setup will let you cast decent size blocks of aluminum with minimal air bubbles |
| 03:51.52 | Twingy | just remember that if you spill something like that on your foot it'll dissintegrate it |
| 03:52.37 | Twingy | and once you get a system down, you'll cut your aluminum costs to a quarter |
| 03:52.39 | bjorkBSD | damn! |
| 03:52.48 | Twingy | provided you can get soda cans and scrap aluminum for free |
| 03:53.16 | bjorkBSD | i'll have to fight with the homeless people around here :) |
| 03:53.40 | Twingy | I have more scrap aluminum and cans than I know what to do with right now |
| 03:53.40 | Maloeran | With only 2 feet, that's not too much margin for trial and error |
| 03:53.40 | Twingy | I like to do 50/50 mix of 6061 and 3104 cans |
| 03:53.40 | bjorkBSD | where do you get them from, the recyclers? |
| 03:53.48 | Twingy | work |
| 03:54.09 | Twingy | if you have a recycle day, go around the night before and pilfer them all |
| 03:54.15 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 03:54.30 | Twingy | um, my old chair |
| 03:54.37 | Twingy | had an aluminum base, cut it up on my bandsaw |
| 03:54.42 | Twingy | my network rack is next to go |
| 03:54.53 | Twingy | ~30lbs of aluminum there |
| 03:55.11 | Twingy | just smelt it with 1% zinc |
| 03:55.25 | bjorkBSD | alright. |
| 03:55.29 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/cgi-bin/aluminum.cgi |
| 03:55.45 | Twingy | that's what I charge |
| 03:56.00 | bjorkBSD | cool :) |
| 03:56.07 | bjorkBSD | where do you get the zinc from? |
| 03:56.23 | Twingy | stuff |
| 03:56.44 | Twingy | the zinc fairy |
| 03:56.58 | Twingy | the usual |
| 03:57.03 | bjorkBSD | she must be hawt! |
| 03:58.00 | Twingy | so I aim to have full in-house PCB and cnc production by summer |
| 03:58.14 | bjorkBSD | to launch your satelltes with right? |
| 03:58.17 | bjorkBSD | ... the rockets, ie. |
| 03:58.35 | Twingy | dunno about that, because that much propellant costs alot |
| 03:58.56 | louipc | I'd think you'd need more specialised aluminum for that eh |
| 03:59.00 | Twingy | once I get the engineering and design down it's just a matter of scaling |
| 03:59.16 | Twingy | I haven't revealed my design yet |
| 03:59.23 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:59.33 | Twingy | one of those epiphanies |
| 03:59.34 | bjorkBSD | everything created using open-source software right? |
| 03:59.37 | Maloeran | I'm sure you'll find a couple people willing to donate for such a geeky adventure :) |
| 03:59.39 | Twingy | right |
| 03:59.45 | Twingy | well |
| 03:59.49 | bjorkBSD | the tech undergound. |
| 03:59.54 | Twingy | I'd like to patent the motor and donate to GNU patents |
| 04:00.16 | bjorkBSD | alright mr galt. |
| 04:01.08 | Twingy | I have a trailer for my truck |
| 04:01.13 | Maloeran | "Galt" : To murder a man without knowing |
| 04:01.16 | Twingy | if I scale it up I'll use that as the launch platform |
| 04:01.52 | Twingy | I'll put a tarp on it and drive to ohio where I have FAA clearance |
| 04:02.06 | bjorkBSD | who is john galt, malorean ;) |
| 04:02.15 | bjorkBSD | which part of Ohio/ |
| 04:02.48 | Maloeran | Ah, definitely not someone I know |
| 04:03.17 | Twingy | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15993507/ |
| 04:04.02 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:04.23 | Twingy | if I have to drive any further I might not do it |
| 04:04.41 | bjorkBSD | baltimore to ohio. |
| 04:04.47 | bjorkBSD | tha'ts a good 12 hrs |
| 04:04.50 | Twingy | yep |
| 04:04.58 | bjorkBSD | never again! |
| 04:05.31 | bjorkBSD | i drove from AR to De over the new years. |
| 04:05.41 | brlcad | 12 hours? maybe to the far west of OH |
| 04:06.05 | brlcad | I make it to detroit from here in 6-8 hours and that takes me through ohio |
| 04:06.06 | bjorkBSD | 25 frigging hrs in my trusty '88 240 dl :) |
| 04:06.47 | bjorkBSD | ah you must have driven through W. Va? |
| 04:06.50 | brlcad | that's a lot of bathroom breaks :) |
| 04:07.11 | bjorkBSD | 3 hrs of sleep and maybe 3 breaks. |
| 04:07.15 | brlcad | i've gone the wva route before, but it's not really faster .. spend a lot of time winding through the mountains |
| 04:07.44 | bjorkBSD | not counting the endless refueling stops. |
| 04:07.46 | brlcad | across pa turnpike into ohio |
| 04:07.47 | Twingy | in any case, it'll be fun |
| 04:07.49 | bjorkBSD | those bricks are HEAVY! |
| 04:08.15 | Twingy | ? |
| 04:08.54 | bjorkBSD | a 240DL stationwagon is a brick. |
| 04:13.19 | Twingy | next release of gcam after tonight will be stable |
| 04:13.30 | louipc | nice! |
| 04:13.36 | Twingy | only took a year right? |
| 04:13.52 | louipc | that's pretty good |
| 04:15.48 | Twingy | well it's a pretty simple program |
| 04:15.54 | Twingy | it's just got alot of caveats |
| 04:15.58 | louipc | I've only ever noticed projects here and there that are in 'planning' phase |
| 04:16.07 | Twingy | heh |
| 04:16.10 | louipc | never releasing any code |
| 04:16.14 | Twingy | I skip right over planning and go into coding |
| 04:16.17 | louipc | I mean in the CAM arena |
| 04:16.22 | louipc | for open source |
| 04:16.31 | Twingy | most CAM people are computer scientists |
| 04:16.41 | Twingy | machinists + computer scientists are a rare breed |
| 04:16.54 | Twingy | *aren't |
| 04:16.57 | Twingy | meh |
| 04:17.00 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:17.02 | Twingy | you get my drift |
| 04:17.07 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 04:17.35 | louipc | aren't? so why isn't there an open source package rivaling mastercam? |
| 04:17.47 | louipc | who wants to pay $30,000 in licensing fees |
| 04:18.24 | Twingy | I'm not trying to rival mastercam |
| 04:18.29 | Twingy | mastercam is overly complicated |
| 04:18.29 | bjorkBSD | what's mastercam? |
| 04:18.39 | Twingy | it's like brl-cad |
| 04:18.42 | Twingy | it does everything |
| 04:18.48 | Twingy | I'm not trying to do everything |
| 04:18.52 | Twingy | simpler the better |
| 04:18.58 | bjorkBSD | the unix way |
| 04:19.01 | louipc | yeah mastercam could be a bit simpler |
| 04:19.07 | louipc | hehe |
| 04:19.12 | Twingy | instead of completely extracting the user from the machine |
| 04:19.13 | bjorkBSD | louipc, are you a machinist too? |
| 04:19.18 | louipc | yeap |
| 04:19.22 | Twingy | the user thinks in terms of what their machine will be doing as they model |
| 04:19.25 | Twingy | that's the gcam model |
| 04:19.45 | Twingy | I don't like the idea of sitting down to a computer, making a 3d model |
| 04:19.54 | Twingy | and having the computer choose the "best" tool paths |
| 04:19.56 | louipc | but I'm no computer scientist.. more like a hobbist |
| 04:20.08 | Twingy | I like to control what my machine is doing and in what order |
| 04:20.16 | bjorkBSD | cool :) |
| 04:20.30 | Twingy | as complex as gcam will get is probly contour pocketing |
| 04:20.38 | Twingy | right now it does simple zig zag pocketing |
| 04:20.57 | Twingy | calculating the tool offsets for multiple level hierchies was a headache |
| 04:21.23 | louipc | yeah I agree with that, the computer can make really stupid unnecessary movements |
| 04:21.29 | Twingy | it takes the pro-engineer philosophy of sketching something and extruding it |
| 04:21.32 | louipc | that's why I like to program manually heh |
| 04:22.09 | Twingy | if some one wants to go in and make gcam have pretty anisotropic globally illuminated 3d shaded models that's fine |
| 04:22.12 | Twingy | but wire frame is fine |
| 04:22.34 | louipc | that would be nice |
| 04:22.44 | Twingy | seems overzealous to me |
| 04:22.53 | Twingy | eventually I want to have assemblies |
| 04:23.03 | Twingy | so I take something big "like a submarine" |
| 04:23.10 | Twingy | and I break it into parts I can mill on my taig |
| 04:23.15 | louipc | wire frame can numb the brain I find |
| 04:23.20 | Twingy | see the whole thing and see just the part I'm going to cnc mill |
| 04:23.40 | Twingy | for example |
| 04:23.41 | louipc | hehe so you're taking on catia then eh? |
| 04:23.49 | Twingy | imagine if after you get down to the lowest region in brl-cad |
| 04:23.52 | bjorkBSD | i thought brl-cad > catia :P |
| 04:23.59 | Twingy | you had gcam that displayed the tool paths |
| 04:24.04 | Twingy | for cutting that hmmwv |
| 04:25.12 | louipc | yeah that would be great |
| 04:25.12 | brlcad | catia is mostly a different market |
| 04:25.32 | brlcad | and considerably more developed on the interface side of things on many levels (they've had billions invested) |
| 04:26.12 | Twingy | gcam has had about $60 invested :) |
| 04:26.29 | brlcad | heh, not quite :) |
| 04:26.37 | brlcad | you're time is worth more than 0.02 cents :) |
| 04:26.45 | Twingy | don't kid yourself! :) |
| 04:26.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:27.01 | Twingy | 0.015 cents tops |
| 04:27.10 | Twingy | you act like I know how to write code or something |
| 04:27.26 | Twingy | look at photon mapping! |
| 04:27.30 | Twingy | nuff said |
| 04:27.41 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:29.20 | Twingy | PEANUT BUTTAH JELLY TIME! |
| 04:29.30 | brlcad | where it at, where it at |
| 04:29.31 | louipc | oh yea |
| 04:29.49 | Twingy | where are you living now? |
| 04:32.19 | brlcad | with a baseball bat? |
| 04:32.54 | Twingy | you're living with a baseball bat? |
| 04:33.22 | brlcad | peanut butter jelly with a baseball bat! |
| 04:33.51 | Twingy | where it at where it at! |
| 04:37.52 | Twingy | k |
| 04:37.57 | Twingy | windows portage |
| 04:41.47 | Twingy | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/01/boston.bombscare/ |
| 04:42.54 | louipc | they would answer questions only about hair awesome |
| 04:51.41 | louipc | Twingy will you set up a CVS or SVN server for gcam eventually? |
| 05:34.14 | Twingy | once I finish cleaning a few things up |
| 05:34.46 | Twingy | I don't want to see things thing get bloated with goofy features |
| 05:35.15 | Twingy | I think it's going to attract a bunch of people that just learned how to write c++ code and want to add buttons galore |
| 05:44.42 | louipc | hehe |
| 05:45.16 | louipc | what's that version of emacs that brlcad uses? |
| 05:47.55 | Twingy | http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7424511&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat107700050032&id=1122655672294 |
| 05:48.15 | bjorkBSD | louipc, jove |
| 05:48.26 | louipc | ah right |
| 05:48.29 | bjorkBSD | it's scary. none of the vi commands work in it. |
| 05:48.37 | louipc | jeff's own version of emacs? |
| 05:48.49 | louipc | or john |
| 05:49.01 | bjorkBSD | jonathan |
| 05:49.30 | louipc | why should vi commands work in emacs?... but you could probably set it up to do so |
| 05:50.18 | louipc | Twingy: sweeet |
| 05:51.03 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:51.34 | brlcad | it's not exactly a "version of emacs", save a fork from a really long time ago when emacs was but a baby |
| 05:51.51 | brlcad | there is a vi-mode for emacs |
| 05:52.05 | louipc | that's what I mean 'a fork' |
| 05:52.56 | bjorkBSD | i was being silly. |
| 05:53.41 | louipc | nah i think it's silly that there's a vi-mode |
| 05:53.58 | bjorkBSD | i think it's awesome. |
| 05:54.06 | bjorkBSD | it makes emacs more useable. |
| 05:54.11 | louipc | why not just use vim? hah |
| 05:54.12 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.40 | bjorkBSD | a text editor w/o modes. that's just wrong. |
| 05:54.59 | louipc | feels right to me |
| 05:55.07 | bjorkBSD | mged has 6 modes! that's even better. |
| 05:55.13 | louipc | I grew up with windows ahem |
| 05:55.27 | bjorkBSD | i grew up with dos and as soon as i could, i abandoned it. |
| 05:55.31 | bjorkBSD | *spits on it* |
| 05:55.32 | louipc | but I'm only using vim now ... to educate myself |
| 05:55.45 | bjorkBSD | the fastest way is to use ed :) |
| 05:55.52 | bjorkBSD | you'll be forced to learn what you need to. |
| 05:56.06 | bjorkBSD | ... and in no time at all. |
| 05:56.07 | louipc | and it seems less needlessly huge than emacs |
| 05:59.16 | louipc | ohh ed nooo |
| 06:37.16 | Maloeran | http://darkmonkey.org.uk/4/1/1153390177481.jpg |
| 06:37.51 | louipc | ! |
| 06:46.49 | brlcad | heh, that's quite a lot of moving parts |
| 06:47.33 | brlcad | apparently 256GB/drive if I count correctly, not too shabby |
| 07:01.09 | brlcad | wow, I like this guy's /. comment .. can be applied to most religion wars |
| 07:01.11 | brlcad | "Linux is like a religion for people who really ought to be putting their intelligence to better use than a religion. Stop wasting time thinking of ways to get your neighbours to accept Linux as their personal saviour from malware, and start teaching yourself C++ and get to work improving things." |
| 07:07.00 | Maloeran | A healthy dose of advertissing is still necessary, even if such words of mouth is no match for Microsoft's marketing budget for example |
| 07:08.23 | Maloeran | I don't think there's an unbalanced amount of Linux zealots in comparison to other aspects of life. Some people out here pratically live for some sportive team, their future car or next television |
| 07:13.06 | brlcad | what you mean by "unbalanced" is certainly curious, but sure there are fans and beliefs in just about every aspect of life |
| 07:13.27 | brlcad | the whole argument is probably a difference on whether that advertising really is necessary or not |
| 07:14.07 | brlcad | proof by action, example, and advancement or by what effectively amounts to manipulation or convincing |
| 07:14.22 | brlcad | merit to both sides I think |
| 07:18.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_getraw.h: remove the obsolete rle_getraw.h header .. was renamed to rle_raw.h in a prior urt update |
| 07:20.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: reorder |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs): |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: remove the libutahrle headers (utah raster toolkit) from our include/ directory, |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and move them up to src/other/libutahrle/include. let configure set |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: RLE_CPPFLAGS and set accordingly amongst the various tools/libraries that need |
| 07:21.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to know the path. |
| 07:50.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: provide CPPFLAGS for tcl, tk, itcl, itk, and termlib |
| 08:02.22 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (8 files in 6 dirs): move libterm.h back to termlib's own directory and make everyone use TERMLIB_CPPFLAGS to get the search path |
| 08:44.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): remove the itcl/itk header files from our include/ directory, moving them back up to src/other/incrTcl. utilize the new ITCL_CPPFLAGS and ITK_CPPFLAGS accordingly. |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (56 files in 50 dirs): |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: *yawn* remove one of the big two remaining public header sets from our include/ |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: directory. remove tcl headers from include/ and utilize the TCL_CPPFLAGS so |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compilation pulls headers from within src/other/libtcl instead. since bu.h and |
| 10:34.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: raytrace.h include tcl foo, this implicates a change across almost the entire |
| 10:34.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: build to add the new CPPFLAGS. |
| 10:35.09 | brlcad | i suppose that's enough damage for now |
| 10:42.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): take a blind guess that since these parts of adrt have/use bu.h that they similarly need tcl_cppflags now too |
| 13:26.40 | *** join/#brlcad cad60 (n=a87ebb52@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:26.49 | cad60 | hello |
| 13:26.55 | cad60 | hello~ |
| 13:27.00 | cad60 | anyone here?? |
| 13:38.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:44.37 | archivist | 2 nano seconds to answer else timeout |
| 14:03.30 | ``Erik | children these days have no patience. |
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| 18:46.40 | *** join/#brlcad bobbens (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) | |
| 19:08.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: group the converters with their flags, sort. |
| 20:07.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 12 dirs): last one, remove the tk headers from our include/ directory. use the TK_CPPFLAGS automake variable instead, pointing to the headers in src/other/libtk/generic/ dir |
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| 22:55.21 | *** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 02:06.03 | louipc | hey there do you know how brlcad displays the manual from mged. I get the error message 'browser not found... exec $mged_browser -display...' |
| 02:10.28 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 02:17.52 | brlcad | louipc: ah, yes .. it tries a set list of browsers depending on the environment and what is found in the path |
| 02:27.26 | louipc | how do I point it in the right direction? -grin- |
| 02:30.33 | Maloeran | Convert matrix of your arm's orientation to quaternions, SLERP towards the right direction, interpolate until t = 1.0 |
| 02:31.27 | louipc | hmm |
| 02:32.56 | louipc | just trying to figure out how to get mged to find my browser to display the manual |
| 02:33.33 | louipc | aha ok I created .mgedrc and I see it |
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| 02:36.10 | louipc | hmm didn't work |
| 03:44.22 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096781862.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 11:42.27 | *** join/#brlcad cad91 (n=588c3382@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:42.37 | cad91 | Hello |
| 11:45.17 | *** join/#brlcad Nordine (n=Nordine@88.140.51.130) | |
| 11:45.38 | Nordine | Hello everybody |
| 11:46.06 | Nordine | I just have a little question about brlcad |
| 11:47.12 | *** part/#brlcad Nordine (n=Nordine@88.140.51.130) | |
| 13:35.37 | *** join/#brlcad cad78 (n=3ed3861e@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:02.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:53.21 | louipc | someone should add 'Please stand by for your questions to be answered, or send an email.' |
| 15:53.27 | louipc | to the topic or something |
| 15:54.38 | bjorkBSD | which questions have been asked here so far? |
| 15:54.38 | bjorkBSD | besides the one i just asked :P |
| 15:54.54 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:55.01 | louipc | none, but people come in and seem to test if anyone is around then leave promptly |
| 15:55.18 | bjorkBSD | oh you want a greet bot? |
| 15:55.32 | brlcad | the nature of cgi:irc, seems to kill brain cells |
| 15:55.43 | louipc | hey not a bad idea |
| 15:55.53 | louipc | hehe @ brlcad |
| 16:15.26 | louipc | bjorkBSD: hey that's a neat idea |
| 17:17.19 | brlcad | louipc: saw http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?do_Details&ID=8320 .. nifty |
| 17:57.53 | louipc | :D still needs a bit of tweaking I think |
| 17:58.14 | louipc | kind of just a test, I should change it to use the CVS |
| 17:59.52 | louipc | the 'malicious code' thing is just a paranoid warning that most user contributed packages have hah |
| 18:05.00 | brlcad | louipc: would it be alright if I add the install file to cvs? |
| 18:11.14 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/twinstar.mp4 |
| 18:26.05 | louipc | brlcad: no problem |
| 18:26.17 | louipc | add the tarball |
| 18:26.44 | louipc | because it contains the three files you need for the archlinux install |
| 18:58.11 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
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| 23:12.56 | Maloeran | I have been reading technical information about Intel's Clovertown chips, rather than "official" benchmarks and propaganda, and I'm having serious doubts |
| 23:13.23 | Maloeran | The 1066mhz is shared by all 8 cores, 133mhz of RAM bandwidth per core |
| 23:13.36 | Maloeran | The 1066mhz bus, that is |
| 23:14.46 | Maloeran | Except if the dataset fits in the 4mb caches, this is really going to crawl |
| 00:45.51 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.112.196) | |
| 06:09.53 | louipc | yeah you'd need more bandwidth than that for 8 cores definitely |
| 06:16.43 | Maloeran | It's ridiculous, I think my old Pentium ( 1995 ) has that much bandwidth to main memory |
| 06:18.52 | Maloeran | Oops it wasn't double-rate though. Okay, it has half that bandwidth |
| 06:19.40 | louipc | my current system does that anyways and it's 6 yrs old |
| 06:20.02 | louipc | I'm thinking of getting a core 2 duo |
| 06:21.42 | Maloeran | I'm thinking I'll wait AMD's Barcelone chips next, far superior memory archtiecture |
| 06:21.46 | Maloeran | architecture, rather |
| 06:29.44 | louipc | oh they're going 128-bit already? |
| 06:30.07 | Maloeran | Eh? No, there's no way we'll ever exceed a 64 bits addressing space :) |
| 06:30.36 | Maloeran | I mean it scales properly with the amount of cores, distinct memory banks and bus |
| 06:30.40 | louipc | ok I just read something in a news article hah |
| 08:28.10 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 09:53.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/libz.dsp: |
| 09:53.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: needed for win32-msvc runtime libraries branch |
| 09:53.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: example.c doesn't belong in the library |
| 09:57.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): include libtcl header files |
| 09:58.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: include libtcl and libz header files |
| 10:00.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.dsp: include libz header files |
| 11:11.32 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 15:57.48 | ``Erik | no way we'll ever exceed a 64b addressing space? hmmmm, kinda like 640k should be enough for anyone? :D |
| 15:59.02 | Maloeran | 18 million tetrabytes? There's a physical problem, we need enough atoms to contain the information |
| 15:59.34 | ``Erik | 18m? my computation says that unsigned would be 16 exabytes... |
| 16:00.21 | Maloeran | Err, not the zeroes, the digits |
| 16:00.22 | ``Erik | I typed 2^64, copied the number into units, then asked |
| 16:00.23 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:00.49 | archivist | just wait 6 months for the ram to appear on the market and 5 months for microsoft to need more |
| 16:02.19 | ``Erik | and if ya had one molecule for every bit, you'd still have 4080 2^64 spaces in one avagadro's number |
| 16:07.19 | ``Erik | and a mole of copper is 63.55 grams |
| 16:08.20 | ``Erik | err, wait, sorry, 2^128, rather |
| 16:08.46 | ``Erik | dangit, now I went and confused myself |
| 16:10.22 | archivist | hmm is that too heavy for my laptop |
| 16:10.25 | ``Erik | hm, mebbe 68 bit instead |
| 16:48.12 | Maloeran | "[...] desire to run very fast would preclude distributed/network processing ... no?" What have you guys done for managers to think that distributed processing == slow? :) |
| 17:58.33 | ``Erik | where'd you read that? |
| 18:01.50 | Maloeran | Mark's reply about distributed processing for their fire modelling |
| 18:02.43 | ``Erik | hm, I can name two projects here that you've heard about that are distributed, extremely slow, and virtually non-scalable. |
| 18:03.13 | Maloeran | Eheh, I thought so |
| 18:03.53 | ``Erik | imho; both use tiny work quanta and poor aggregation techniques. |
| 18:04.14 | ``Erik | they're "chatty", too |
| 18:05.33 | Maloeran | I'm just amused by the assumption that distributed processing would make things slower. Why would we distribute processing if it weren't for speed? :) |
| 18:06.16 | ``Erik | distributed processing induces overhead, if you don't keep it in mind, you actually do get software that runs slower :) |
| 18:06.27 | ``Erik | which is why the production one is usually run serially |
| 18:23.46 | ``Erik | hm, my escape key is sticking :( |
| 18:34.58 | Maloeran | fell* |
| 18:39.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): unmagic some numbers |
| 22:27.31 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096781862.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 22:48.22 | *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168057882.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:40.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: |
| 23:40.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: either PNG_NO_MMX_CODE or PNG_NO_ASSEMBLER_CODE are required for successful |
| 23:40.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compilation on AMD64 Linux with gcc due to linking of 32-bit assembly with |
| 23:40.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 64-bit object files. compiling with -m32 avoids the problem but just tack on |
| 23:40.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: PNG_NO_MMX_CODE for now since that doesn't limit compilation/features like the |
| 23:40.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: other two options. should probably test for this mix in configure and set some |
| 23:40.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: cppflags accordingly. |
| 01:45.42 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 05:03.32 | *** join/#brlcad bobbens (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) | |
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| 14:20.27 | ``Erik | hrmph |
| 16:42.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/weight.sh: |
| 16:42.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update script being used for comparison. whitespace differences cause the test |
| 16:42.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to fail where it should succeed. include timestamp lines and the density table |
| 16:42.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: lines since the script strips them anyways, otherwise a whitespace script might |
| 16:42.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: collapse too many consecutive blank lines. |
| 16:43.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/weight.sh: use name of script as prefix, not wgt |
| 17:52.53 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.171.80) | |
| 19:46.01 | *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:55.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add support for building the Pro/E converter, and specifying Pro/E installation path. |
| 19:57.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: Switch conditional name to WITH_PROE to mirror configure flags. |
| 20:00.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/Makefile.am: Update pro/e makefile to support compilation on Linux. |
| 20:02.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/protk.dat.in: Modify text and library locations to support execution on Linux |
| 20:32.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 20:32.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: instead of automatically modifying the configure.ac file if there are |
| 20:32.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: unsupported known macros being used, just report what those macros are and |
| 20:32.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: blather on about how that really indicates that probably the version of the |
| 20:32.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: autotools is specified incorrectly in autogen.sh or that inappropriate macros |
| 20:32.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: are being used in configure.ac. |
| 20:40.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: if librt has opennurbs symbols, include the opennurbs library so that the library will hopefully be fully resolved and contained. |
| 20:56.22 | ``Erik | brlcad, got an error spinning up here... think it's related to the tcl import |
| 21:43.22 | tofu | hrm.. still odd |
| 21:44.00 | tofu | tcl hasn't been updated yet, but that's what I'm working on now/today/as I type |
| 21:45.56 | tofu | a quick cursory search into the error seems to indicate it's actually something wrong/specific to the regex.h that tcl provides.. I'd be inclined to just remove their regex code, but first see if 8.5a5 has the same problem |
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| 21:48.56 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 22:35.20 | ``Erik | hm, it almost look like tcl can resolve symbols using regex... I've eliminated all the regex shtuff and I get three files complaining: tclCmdIL.c, tclCmdMZ.c and tclFileName.c |
| 23:21.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 23:21.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: since AC_OUTPUT won't touch the brlcad_config.h.in template if it already exists |
| 23:21.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: and is unmodified, explicitly touch the file. this of course updates the |
| 23:21.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: timestamp and avoids an unnecessary invocation of config.status and autoheader |
| 23:21.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: in the include/ directory on subsequent compilations. |
| 23:28.07 | *** join/#brlcad mac- (i=mac@banda.pl) | |
| 23:28.07 | mac- | hi there |
| 23:33.06 | mac- | BRL-CAD is something like Catia or SolidWorks ? |
| 23:46.55 | louipc | yep |
| 23:47.29 | mac- | gr8 |
| 23:47.30 | mac- | :> |
| 23:47.31 | louipc | brlcad doesn't do CAM though |
| 23:47.35 | louipc | only CAD |
| 23:47.44 | mac- | and there is any good documentation or manual ? |
| 23:48.07 | louipc | but you could write add-ons to brlcad to add functionality |
| 23:48.29 | louipc | yeah visit http://www.brlcad.org |
| 23:54.18 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 00:07.55 | brlcad | mac-: there is fairly extensive introductory material on the main website: http://brlcad.org |
| 00:08.17 | mac- | ok |
| 00:08.21 | brlcad | ah, oop.. thx louipc :) I should finish reading first.. |
| 00:08.28 | mac- | do you know any good CAD for Linux ? |
| 00:09.17 | brlcad | er, you mean other than brl-cad? |
| 00:09.26 | mac- | for drafting |
| 00:09.33 | brlcad | ah.. CADD |
| 00:09.38 | mac- | similar to AutoCAD |
| 00:10.06 | brlcad | the only readily available one is qcad |
| 00:10.22 | mac- | uhm |
| 00:10.43 | brlcad | (free at least) |
| 00:10.50 | mac- | i downloaded GraphiteOne, but i couldn`t launch it |
| 00:10.51 | brlcad | and with any production quality |
| 00:11.19 | mac- | and their support hasn`t reply for my questions |
| 00:12.47 | brlcad | ah, I don't follow the commercial products that closely, even less those specific to drafting, even further less those that aren't open source |
| 00:13.05 | brlcad | (sorry, just not our concern/interest) |
| 00:13.21 | mac- | ok |
| 00:13.24 | louipc | I saw one called FreeCAD on sourceforge, I haven't tried it yet |
| 00:13.57 | brlcad | freecad is mildly useful, but they're even farther from production quality than qcad |
| 00:14.03 | louipc | ouch |
| 00:14.55 | brlcad | it just really takes too much time to build up the foundation for a CAD or CADD or CAM system to achieve production quality for generalized use |
| 00:15.12 | brlcad | might find a tool or two specialized |
| 00:15.56 | brlcad | but freecad and qcad and pythoncad and others try to cater to common audiences, and have a excessively major hill to fight |
| 00:17.18 | louipc | yeah definitely |
| 00:17.44 | brlcad | that's one of the aspects where brl-cad shines -- even if you remove mged and the gui, there's roughly 100+ man-years of development |
| 00:18.40 | dtidrow_work | and at least 25 real years of development behind it |
| 00:18.59 | louipc | do you think you can achieve a professional level GUI with tcl/tk? |
| 00:32.04 | ``Erik | given the # of gui's professionally developed in tcl/tk... probably... |
| 00:46.17 | brlcad | louipc: you can, and even brl-cad's archer shows a lot of what is possible in terms of a better gui more in line with several of the professional system interfaces |
| 00:46.37 | brlcad | that said, our next generation gui probably won't be in tcl/tk |
| 00:53.56 | bjorkBSD | but ... i thought brl-cad *was* professional! |
| 00:54.21 | bjorkBSD | brilly wears a uniform no? |
| 01:00.38 | brlcad | a professional-quality gui? no, that's one of the things it does lack .. in production professional use with professional-quality engine facilities, yes |
| 01:02.23 | bjorkBSD | what will the next gui be in? |
| 01:03.54 | bjorkBSD | in the beginning was the CL, and lo, man took one look at the CLI and thought it was bad. and man created the mouse to eat the CL but verily verily i say unto ye, the CLI served as a useful barrier to entry and kept the waifs away :D |
| 01:08.40 | louipc | @brlcad what are you considering for the next GUI? |
| 01:10.14 | louipc | bjorkBSD: hehe I find the CLI can actually be more efficient if you know what you're doing, and it is well designed |
| 01:12.11 | bjorkBSD | yeah. i hear vista's reintroduced it :D |
| 01:12.38 | bjorkBSD | as far as command line completion goes. |
| 01:12.54 | louipc | oh tab completion? |
| 01:13.15 | bjorkBSD | something like that. i saw it in a youtube video |
| 01:13.36 | louipc | I've heard bad things about vista, and not from windows users nonetheless |
| 01:13.37 | bjorkBSD | ... they've had it in iexplorer for ages, but it seems it's use has been broadened. |
| 01:14.21 | louipc | I tried XP because a linux user said it was the best thing since 3.1 or something. That didn't last for me hah. |
| 01:14.32 | louipc | bad things... *and from windows users... |
| 01:14.46 | louipc | typo |
| 01:14.50 | bjorkBSD | hehe |
| 01:15.08 | bjorkBSD | i have a windows partition i reboot to every now and then. |
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| 04:44.31 | Maloeran | Could anyone tell me what's the common memory and processing models within HPC clusters? I received from a non-programmer by email information that conflicts with my assumptions |
| 04:44.39 | Maloeran | Keywords to wikipedia would do too |
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| 06:36.10 | brlcad | louipc: the CLI is not going away in the least and would actually be more a part of the foundation to the interface (e.g. anything you could do in the gui would be exposed on the cli and vice-versa) |
| 06:39.55 | brlcad | it would be just more of a focus on designing a gui that actually works, is efficient, more consistent, is readily pluggable, and not nearly as much of a bear to maintain/improve as mged's is |
| 06:41.41 | Maloeran | Nevermind the question about cluster processing, Mark had some... weird ideas on the topic :) |
| 06:43.43 | brlcad | most custom designs in general with data localized/replicated in-core or is spread across some out-of-core storage and loaded as needed |
| 06:48.24 | brlcad | most don't have shared process spaces or shared address spaces, but often have shared storage (but not always) so it usually boils down to whether disk memory is sufficient or whether to optimize replicaton/distribution over some communication pipe like tcp sockets, mpi, pvm, etc |
| 06:49.30 | Maloeran | Shared address spaces, that exists? |
| 06:49.44 | Maloeran | It goes against all I know, but it was what Mark apparently assumed |
| 06:50.42 | brlcad | there's a few systems that do, some experimental, some more production |
| 06:51.54 | Maloeran | Woah... but.. |
| 06:52.38 | Maloeran | If the memory address space is shared, it must be a single system made of multiple processors ; you have one memory bank |
| 06:53.07 | Maloeran | It wouldn't be too reasonable to get a page fault for every memory access and synchronize with other processing nodes constantly |
| 06:53.35 | brlcad | not necessarily -- the kernel is simply written/geared towards managing the memory |
| 06:53.51 | brlcad | that's the whole idea around single shared image systems in general |
| 06:54.03 | brlcad | mosix is probably the most popular/common one that you might have heard about |
| 06:54.06 | brlcad | or openmosix |
| 06:54.19 | brlcad | ahh, here's some references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-system_image |
| 06:54.35 | Maloeran | I really don't see how this could possibly work |
| 06:55.07 | Maloeran | The only way for the kernel to know what memory is being modified or accessed is to trigger page faults |
| 06:56.18 | brlcad | they do work ;) |
| 06:56.27 | brlcad | to varying degrees of coolness |
| 06:56.33 | Maloeran | Do you have any idea how, briefly? |
| 06:56.44 | brlcad | mosix gets away with it by simply migrating processes to balance load |
| 06:56.45 | Maloeran | How can they track what's being read or written to synchronize the data? |
| 06:56.58 | Maloeran | Yes, they can migrate processes, but they won't share address space |
| 06:57.09 | Maloeran | You couldn't get shared memory between processes |
| 06:57.15 | brlcad | right, that's why they're only a partial SSI |
| 06:57.42 | brlcad | there is still one shared address space, but it's no bigger than the smallest single system's available memory |
| 06:58.07 | brlcad | which isn't entirely true .. but a simple enough simplification |
| 06:58.13 | Maloeran | How can they possibly synchronize that memory? |
| 06:58.57 | brlcad | they don't really need too -- the process moves with it's memory |
| 06:59.49 | Maloeran | Yes, yes, moving processes around is fine. Now, let's say you have process A on the box M and process B on the box N. The two processes have 160mb allocated as shared memory which they use to communicate |
| 07:00.14 | Maloeran | How are they going to manage and synchornize that memory between the two nodes? |
| 07:00.53 | brlcad | that's the entire question behind just how do you do SSI |
| 07:01.00 | brlcad | each of those ssi projects goes about it a different way |
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| 07:01.22 | Maloeran | I see no other way than constant page faults, which would make performance crawl |
| 07:01.25 | brlcad | some are compiler mods coupled with specific kernels that are fed information about memory access |
| 07:01.55 | brlcad | just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean someone else hasn't :) |
| 07:02.14 | Maloeran | I know that, but I'm asking how it works! :) I guess I should do some reading |
| 07:03.24 | brlcad | well, you might also be thinking shared memory == shared address space and it doesn't |
| 07:03.33 | brlcad | at least not necessarily |
| 07:04.07 | brlcad | whether you even can write C code on a lot of those systems is not possible -- some are very customized academic projects |
| 07:04.24 | Maloeran | brlcad, the box M needs to "know" when the process A writes within the shard memory, so it can update it on box N |
| 07:05.00 | Maloeran | Okay, Mosix doesn't support shared memory |
| 07:05.07 | brlcad | with shared memory -- sure, and there's ways a kernel could be written to propagate that |
| 07:05.19 | brlcad | yes, mosix doesn't |
| 07:05.59 | brlcad | it does process migration in a unified process address space |
| 07:05.59 | Maloeran | The kernel must be told by the processor that writes occur to begin with ; that implies a page fault |
| 07:06.29 | brlcad | implies a "fault" of some sort .. whether memory is managed in pages is an assumption in itself |
| 07:06.55 | brlcad | whether that maps to hardware fault is yet another |
| 07:07.33 | Maloeran | Right, of course so. What I'm trying to say is that page faults, specifically assuming ia32/amd64 hardware, would cripple performance |
| 07:08.08 | brlcad | i believe openssi actually does shared memory across a unified address space |
| 07:08.17 | brlcad | though I haven't looked into how they actually achieved it |
| 07:09.04 | brlcad | hey, you can't get it all for free -- if you're going to be accessing memory across a network link, performance is going to be crippled no matter how creative you get |
| 07:10.05 | brlcad | i mean you're talking the difference of a couple clock cycles to a few nanosecs at best |
| 07:10.34 | brlcad | which is of course...several orders |
| 07:10.49 | brlcad | the fact that it'll even do it (and do it automatically) is what's amazing |
| 07:11.12 | brlcad | just getting it to work at all has been something groups have been working on for longer than I've been alive :) |
| 07:11.19 | Maloeran | I'm asking this because Mark had the assumption that clusters could share memory address space, running threads over the processing network, which is of course incorrect |
| 07:11.34 | Maloeran | But I thought there could be some weird cluster architecture I wasn't aware of |
| 07:12.04 | brlcad | nobody does individual thread-level yet afaik .. even mosix only does process-level |
| 07:12.16 | brlcad | though openssi does thread-group migration iirc, one step closer |
| 07:12.59 | Maloeran | I don't know if it's really amazing, it's absolutely horrible by design :) |
| 07:13.21 | brlcad | openssi might be what he was thinking .. or mosix for that matter and he really just meant unified address space instead of shared and running processes over the network instead of threads |
| 07:13.38 | brlcad | horrible?? |
| 07:13.58 | Maloeran | If you want to distribute processing over a network, just write the software as such |
| 07:14.18 | brlcad | some of those systems are nearly optimal for doing exactly that |
| 07:14.18 | brlcad | with zero effort on your part |
| 07:14.53 | Maloeran | Without shared memory, I still need to handle I/O between processes, I haven't gained anything |
| 07:15.39 | brlcad | perhaps, or maybe you have an application that is already well-designed to not have that assumption or need for interprocess communication |
| 07:15.59 | brlcad | you're making a ton of assumptions about what matters, assumptions that don't hold for a lot of cases |
| 07:16.37 | Maloeran | Right, I should clarify : I'm thinking about distributed processing for a single problem, not running 100 distinct processes |
| 07:17.09 | brlcad | it also depends on the nature of the problem itself of course |
| 07:17.38 | brlcad | if you have a problem that can be independently parallelized, it can likely also be independently distributed seamlessly |
| 07:18.10 | brlcad | (with a given architecture (software and hardware) |
| 07:18.25 | Maloeran | True, but then there isn't much to gain from "apparently" running the 100 processes "locally" rather than booting them on the 100 boxes. It's a bit easier to manage surely |
| 07:18.56 | brlcad | whether there's much to gain depends on the problem too :) |
| 07:19.03 | brlcad | something short-lived, yeah, not much gain |
| 07:19.15 | brlcad | something like the life of your rays, yeah not much gain |
| 07:19.32 | brlcad | something that took minutes/days/weeks to process.. it'd be incredibly useful |
| 07:19.37 | Maloeran | I see the point but it's really a matter of convenience, an user could start the processes on the other boxes "manually" too |
| 07:19.57 | brlcad | sure, but then I could have done that anyways.. |
| 07:20.12 | brlcad | the point of the cluster is to do that stuff for you with the least effort |
| 07:20.46 | brlcad | sometimes that least effort is by custom coding or using mpi or it's by going with a different cluster architecture that does things for you |
| 07:20.56 | Maloeran | Right, so it's a matter of convenience, I realize that |
| 07:21.04 | brlcad | most of the popular (massive) clusters don't do SSI |
| 07:21.17 | brlcad | i think HP's cluster tech does, but nobody else |
| 07:21.34 | brlcad | everyone else predominantly is geared towards mpi |
| 07:23.07 | brlcad | that's what the network cards are optimizing for, the network stacks, etc.. if you want to efficiently scale up to 10k processors and not have to worry (as much) about bottlenecking yourself with interprocess/thread communication, mpi can help (even as heavy as it can be otherwise) |
| 07:24.15 | Maloeran | Yes, MPI is a neat abstraction layer, I won't contest that :) |
| 07:24.58 | brlcad | course if your problem can take advantage of 10k processors or even 1k easily.. then there's not much advantage to be had by the alternative of custom coding some network layer yourself to avoid mpi's (variable) overhead .. even a "2x" savings on something that takes two weeks to compute isn't that interesting |
| 07:26.25 | brlcad | because those are generally problems that are entirely intractible/unfeasible/useless on smaller supercomputers |
| 07:27.44 | brlcad | it's still "at least a couple years" out before I'll be able to do a full-blown fluid dynamics simulation on a dual quad-core workstation to say the least.. ;) |
| 07:28.16 | Maloeran | :) Seems I'll have a chance to try that out soon |
| 07:28.50 | brlcad | full-blown valid-physics down to something like millimeter accuracy at least |
| 07:29.01 | Maloeran | I have only read documentation and code about MPI, I'll try to move on from TCP/IP soon |
| 07:29.23 | brlcad | there are tons of simplifications that can be made on an fluid problem to get them to work on workstations already |
| 07:29.51 | Maloeran | I'll probably get to rewrite SURVICE's fire simulation soon ( fluid dynamics ), it's really filled with simplifications |
| 07:29.53 | brlcad | MPI isn't "great" .. it's been so painful to achieve adoption because the API is a pita |
| 07:30.36 | brlcad | but it's like democracy .. it's not great, but it's the best to have been conceived, adopted, and popularized to date |
| 07:30.37 | Maloeran | The API of MPI seemed appropriate for its purpose... I may think differently when I get to use it |
| 07:30.48 | brlcad | it's gotten tons better |
| 07:31.43 | Maloeran | I was baffled by how slow SURVICE's fire modelling was, especially when I heard how much they simplified the problem. Never let engineers write code, in Fortran 77 too |
| 07:37.52 | Maloeran | If I may, how much is there to lose by using MPI over more tailored specific solutions, for software running on 1-4 nodes or so? |
| 07:52.58 | brlcad | mpi for 1-4 nodes is frankly pointless -- that could just as easily be a command line option for that few nodes |
| 07:55.06 | brlcad | --run-on="node1, node2, node3, node4" etc.. fork a master than remote execs to the nodes or something else .. heck of a lot simpler code and trivial to manage the communication between them without worring about a major bottleneck |
| 07:56.42 | brlcad | it's only once it's over like 16 that it starts to get "hard" imho and things start to matter |
| 07:57.38 | brlcad | how much you loose depends on lot on how many MPI calls you make and how much interprocess/thread communication is going on (which you generally want to minimize of course as much as possible) |
| 07:58.59 | brlcad | compared to strait-up custom tcp, I've seen the mpi overhead be as low as only a couple percent to being a couple hundred |
| 08:00.05 | brlcad | the main benefit of course being that tcp was easy to write for smaller counts of nodes .. but quickly doesn't scale for larger and larger node counts where mpi scales considerably better and doesn't have to be maintained/debugged/tweaked |
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| 15:30.07 | Maloeran | Thanks for the reply, brlcad, I was asleep by then |
| 15:39.28 | ``Erik | mal: have ya read up on 'numa'? |
| 15:39.52 | Maloeran | Sure, some time ago |
| 15:40.39 | ``Erik | hrm, didja forget it? :D (given your conversation before you went to bed, I'd assume...) |
| 15:40.53 | Maloeran | We should store a whole copy of geometry and graphs per memory bank, and have specific threads access it... but I haven't read about the software interfaces to do so |
| 15:41.15 | ``Erik | it's a cluster form with a unified memory space on several independant nodes, each with its own cpu and memory... |
| 15:41.16 | Maloeran | The discussion wasn't really related to NUMA, it was about distributed processing over multiple nodes |
| 15:42.10 | Maloeran | The count of processors in such a design is kept very low, is it not? Up to 16 for an octo-dual-opteron |
| 15:42.24 | ``Erik | an altix is a numa cluster of small single cpu ia64 machines using sgi's numalink to get unsucky bandwidth between 'em and a hacked up suse to handle processor and memory affinity |
| 15:43.15 | Maloeran | That's one single machine though, not a cluster |
| 15:43.23 | ``Erik | no, it's a cluster |
| 15:43.51 | ``Erik | if I walk up to one, it's a bunch of seperat 2u machines, I could pull the numa cables off the back, put in a hard drive and install an os on that one machine |
| 15:44.21 | ``Erik | http://www.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/information/hardware/altix350_front.jpg |
| 15:44.24 | Maloeran | Do opteron clusters work the same way? |
| 15:45.15 | ``Erik | it doesn't matter what the cpu is, it depends on the kernel and interconnect (using something like ethernet would make it absolutely horrible) |
| 15:46.04 | Maloeran | So the Opteron clusters Mark spoke of do have an unified memory space? |
| 15:46.06 | ``Erik | the opteron clusters I have are not numa, they're regular ethernet tcp/ip nodes, each with independant kernels that don't try to assume anything about eachother, and a single disk attachment |
| 15:46.16 | ``Erik | I don't know which clusters mark spoke of... :) |
| 15:46.56 | Maloeran | So opteron clusters do exist having a global memory address space by NUMA? |
| 15:47.32 | ``Erik | I would be surprised if they didn't *shrug* like I said, what cpu it is and NUMA are unrelated |
| 15:48.35 | ``Erik | I could take a stack of old 486's running 10baseT and hack up a numa kernel for 'em... it'd suck, but it's doable |
| 15:48.39 | ``Erik | or, heh, numaPIC :D |
| 15:48.50 | Maloeran | It's certainly not running on a standard motherboard then! |
| 15:49.05 | ``Erik | sure it is... numa is a kernel hack |
| 15:49.32 | Maloeran | NUMA is a hardware solution |
| 15:49.32 | ``Erik | ok, if you miss on level1 cache, it goes to level3... if it misses there, maybe it goes to memory... if it misses there, it goes to swap, right? |
| 15:49.51 | Maloeran | That's not a kernel solution until it misses memory and trigger a page fault |
| 15:49.52 | ``Erik | shove 'other nodes' inbetween memory and swap, that's numa |
| 15:50.03 | ``Erik | no, numa is a kernel hack that lets you fake unified memory |
| 15:50.08 | ``Erik | NUMALink is a hardware solution |
| 15:50.09 | Maloeran | A page fault per memory access is not practical |
| 15:50.22 | ``Erik | yeah it is, IF you have a low latency interconnect |
| 15:50.36 | ``Erik | which is what NUMALink is... sgi's proprietary interconnect, designed with numa archs in mind |
| 15:51.01 | Maloeran | You would spend 50000 times the processing time of *one* memory-accessing instruction to handle that page fault! |
| 15:51.08 | ``Erik | ib and myra could probably do it semi-decently if your kernels scheduler was very aware of affinity |
| 15:51.40 | ``Erik | the trick is that migrations are minimized... if a processor is happily using 1 node, it'll try to keep it on that node... |
| 15:51.56 | ``Erik | if two apps are sharing memory, it'll bias towards running both of those on that one node |
| 15:52.50 | ``Erik | (and accessing another nodes memory, if you're using a decent interconnect (like NUMALink for the altix) may be an order of magnitude slower than local memory, but is several orders better than swap |
| 15:52.52 | ``Erik | ) |
| 15:53.16 | Maloeran | I see, so it does work by page faults |
| 15:53.42 | ``Erik | if the underlying arch does, I'd imagine it'd have to |
| 15:54.15 | Maloeran | NUMA as implemented in an Opteron system is really fast, memory banks bound to other processors are just a bit slower if the hypertransport link is not saturated |
| 15:54.19 | ``Erik | (also; a common use of supercomputers isn't to run one really really big app, but to run a bunch of sorta big apps) |
| 15:54.27 | Maloeran | That's usually what I refer to by NUMA |
| 15:54.59 | ``Erik | you're talking about hypertransport and how it can facilitate numa, not numa |
| 15:55.12 | ``Erik | hypertransport is just a fast interconnect... |
| 15:55.40 | ``Erik | if the kernel is stupid about using it, it'll 'page fault' through to the other cpu's memory banks frequently... no? |
| 15:56.00 | Maloeran | No, it doesn't page fault |
| 15:56.04 | Maloeran | It's a hardware solution :) |
| 15:56.19 | ``Erik | ok, *shrug* then they have both in hw |
| 15:56.26 | Maloeran | The hardware physically routes queries to the memory of other processor banks |
| 15:56.38 | ``Erik | on an sgi altix, afaik, it's a fault and request... and surprisingly fast |
| 15:56.50 | ``Erik | on mosix, it's a fault and request... and depends on the interconnect |
| 15:57.15 | ``Erik | hum |
| 15:57.35 | ``Erik | so it's an mmu hack that requires use of the hw 'task' vectors? |
| 15:57.49 | ``Erik | <-- not versed in hypertransport, is old :) |
| 15:58.33 | Maloeran | The pages are assigned to other memory banks, I guess it's managed as such by the MMU |
| 15:59.10 | ``Erik | well, you have to manage the memory location by task... if the hw does that, you have to tell the hw when you're in a certain task... |
| 15:59.17 | ``Erik | (task as in intel speak for process) |
| 15:59.20 | Maloeran | It's just one big memory bank really, it's just that processors are faster to access their local one |
| 16:00.33 | ``Erik | (as in hypertransport, not hyperthreading) |
| 16:01.30 | ``Erik | hm, works on packets that're either flagged "posted" (for uma and dma) or "nonposted" (for numa)... |
| 16:08.25 | Maloeran | Perhaps proper management of the memory banks, DMA? |
| 16:09.11 | ``Erik | not sure, lots of bit manipulation, probably to make the bank/process association to retain coherency |
| 16:10.06 | ``Erik | linux has a metric assload more than fbsd, mebbe that's why the single process run on a linux opteron outran the same run on a fbsd opteron |
| 16:10.59 | ``Erik | ooh, damnit, now I wanna do kernel hacking to improve the cpu and memory affinity on that quad opteron |
| 16:11.28 | dtidrow | heh |
| 16:11.37 | Maloeran | I can't believe a NUMA system which would page faults for every access, requesting the data before resuming the instruction, could perform comparably to software fetching the data in advance as one big chunk |
| 16:11.39 | ``Erik | stupid raytracer crap |
| 16:12.00 | ``Erik | well, the "page fault" may not call a cpu interrupt, it may be completely hw abstracted and fast *shrug* |
| 16:12.48 | ``Erik | but the os still has to manage the mmu *shrug* it may just be that the interconnect keeps a duplicate copy of the kernels notion of what memory resides where |
| 16:13.10 | Maloeran | I see. |
| 16:14.41 | ``Erik | (per ghz, opteron running 85k rays/sec, g5 at 45k, ia32 at 18k... damn) |
| 16:15.57 | ``Erik | (well, one opteron was 85k, the other was 60k... r12k was 31k, usII was 30k, ia64 at 41k) |
| 16:16.19 | Maloeran | librt this is? |
| 16:16.23 | ``Erik | ja |
| 16:16.49 | ``Erik | the 64 intel amd64 (used to be called EMT or something?) came in at 25k |
| 16:17.24 | ``Erik | oh, with the ia32, 18k for linux, 32k for fbsd... |
| 16:17.58 | dtidrow | in other words, librt is optimized for fbsd |
| 16:18.06 | ``Erik | these are all 'per ghz' on machines with radically differnet cpu speeds and no attention paid to bus speeds or anything, btw |
| 16:18.22 | ``Erik | well, on the opteron, linux came in at 85k where fbsd was 60k |
| 16:18.58 | dtidrow | guess linux has the better memory management inplementation on opteron |
| 16:19.05 | ``Erik | makes me think that it's not an artifact of librt being optimized one way or another, but the OS... amd64 is immature on amd64, but kickin' on ia32 |
| 16:19.27 | dtidrow | fbsd, you mean? |
| 16:19.35 | ``Erik | I think the memory mgmt is all an upfront hit with pools being used, ... |
| 16:19.37 | ``Erik | er, yeah, sorry |
| 16:19.52 | ``Erik | amd: linux>fbsd. ia32: fbsd>linux. |
| 16:20.18 | dtidrow | heh, another reason for me to get AMD :-) |
| 16:20.36 | dtidrow | anyway gotta head in to work - later all... |
| 16:20.41 | ``Erik | later, dude |
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| 18:51.46 | ``Erik | numa is an abstract idea, not a specific implementation... |
| 19:31.44 | Maloeran | Oh hrm. Erik, I briefly mentionned we debated cluster architectures in an email, and he asks, what's your "recommendation"? :) |
| 19:32.02 | Maloeran | I guess he means TCP/IP vs MPI vs NUMA-aware pthreads |
| 19:32.21 | Maloeran | In the context, "he" being Mark |
| 19:36.52 | brlcad | numa-aware pthreads is generally part of single-image systems, not clustering .. otherwise saying "red vs blue vs duckies" |
| 19:37.52 | Maloeran | Altix clusters, for example, have an unified address space though, which means that NUMA-aware threads could reasonably work |
| 19:39.36 | brlcad | there are massive altix smp and clusters of massive altix smp |
| 19:40.14 | brlcad | the clusters don't have a unified address space, altix is cool because it's smp and not a cluster in itself |
| 19:40.51 | Maloeran | All right, that clarifies the definitions. So it's a 512 processors SMP NUMA system |
| 19:41.07 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:41.51 | brlcad | and that'll be quite a price tag at that size to say the least |
| 19:42.02 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:42.26 | brlcad | pretty much only find those systems at HPC assets (which ARL does happen to have, the MSRC) |
| 19:42.34 | ``Erik | altix is numa, not smp... |
| 19:42.50 | brlcad | altix is numa and smp |
| 19:43.14 | ``Erik | meh, numa is a memory layout, not a cpu scheduling layout, so *shrug* |
| 19:43.59 | ``Erik | but duckies, ... duckies are awesome |
| 19:44.06 | ``Erik | (ever watch 'ze frank'?) |
| 19:44.12 | brlcad | daily ;) |
| 19:44.29 | brlcad | ze frank |
| 19:44.38 | brlcad | ze frank is pretty awesome |
| 19:45.15 | ``Erik | it's on my daily list, too, along with sbemail and the comic page and smacksnot |
| 19:46.01 | archivist | hmm smacks not or smack snot |
| 19:46.18 | ``Erik | smack snot |
| 19:46.25 | ``Erik | aka crack rock |
| 19:46.40 | ``Erik | sometimes slashdot, by the unitiated or sufficiently confused |
| 19:50.14 | brlcad | Maloeran: maybe watch some of these for starters: http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/ then click on "popular shows" on the left |
| 19:50.54 | ``Erik | heh, then blow a solid week watching the entire archive *cough* O:-) |
| 19:51.21 | archivist | I wont be able to read slashdot without the thought smack snot going through my head now |
| 19:51.42 | ``Erik | *bow* |
| 19:52.03 | ``Erik | that's a good thing, right? you'll be able to do something productive, instead? |
| 19:52.28 | archivist | wot hell no |
| 19:54.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: punty "depends" target |
| 19:59.52 | ``Erik | nothing :) |
| 20:00.00 | ``Erik | there'll be a bigarsed commit in a few |
| 20:00.19 | brlcad | hrm |
| 20:00.22 | ``Erik | but, as the regex.h issue remains, my testing of it is incomplete |
| 20:01.09 | ``Erik | I don't think tcl's regex stuff can be easily removed, it looks like it's use in the symbol resolving functions, as well as in the file routines |
| 20:03.38 | brlcad | i didn't mean remove the regex code, just the files themselves -- or do you mean they're #including .c files or something? |
| 20:04.03 | ``Erik | <-- finds himself going into dirs in the appropriate dep chain order and doing make by hand to get the lib or bin he wants, thinks it'd be keen if he could go where he wants and do "make depends all" |
| 20:04.20 | brlcad | ahh |
| 20:04.23 | brlcad | yeah, that would be useful |
| 20:04.31 | ``Erik | not including .c files, but generic/regex.h is used several places in generic/*.c |
| 20:04.34 | brlcad | i do the cd dir dir dir blah foo too |
| 20:05.14 | brlcad | i think only folks that understand how automake works are generally inclined to do that, but hey that's cool |
| 20:05.18 | ``Erik | it might be best to mv regex.h regex_tcl.h and sed 's/regex\.h/regex_tcl.h' *.[ch] |
| 20:05.38 | brlcad | might also just get away with -DVOID=void |
| 20:05.52 | ``Erik | I'd do it to what we have now, but I ASSUME you're close to committing a new tcl |
| 20:05.57 | brlcad | the more I looked at it last night, the more it looked like it was empty |
| 20:05.59 | ``Erik | that won't be the only thing broken, just the first |
| 20:06.20 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-61.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:06.31 | ``Erik | unless generic/regex.h just happens to have all the meat of /usr/include/regex.h and it happens to use the same define values and stuff |
| 20:07.21 | ``Erik | well, commit it up, yo... even if it's busted, we could split the load and both go about fixing... *shrug* |
| 20:11.36 | ``Erik | in a branch if ya want *shrug* I'll sync to a branch |
| 20:13.46 | brlcad | commit what up? |
| 20:13.59 | brlcad | -DVOID=void? |
| 20:14.48 | brlcad | still working on finishing this 8.5 testing/building, trying to get subconfigures to work reliably |
| 20:17.07 | dtidrow_work | http://tinyurl.com/3cx56e - good grief |
| 20:17.39 | dtidrow_work | the excessively accesorised toilet |
| 20:19.12 | archivist | lacks a lectern for a heavy book |
| 20:19.24 | brlcad | hrm.. by that math |
| 20:22.09 | brlcad | it's saying the average person spends 11862 hours per day in the bathroom (presumably on the toilet) .. which is roughly 30 minutes a day |
| 20:22.58 | ``Erik | per day? |
| 20:23.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:24.02 | brlcad | i know some people that .. er .. take forever, but then they have "issues" too afaik |
| 20:24.16 | brlcad | well yeah, that depends what all is included |
| 20:24.28 | brlcad | the article makes it sound like you spend all that time on the john |
| 20:25.05 | dtidrow_work | heh - women spend at least 1.5hrs a day in the bathroom, then |
| 20:25.06 | archivist | for a good stiff sh.. the a good read is needed |
| 20:26.45 | brlcad | i never got that, i'm in and out every time -- there's no by the time I finish a couple sentances, it's over |
| 20:27.16 | ``Erik | need something to tear pages out of if there's no tp *shrug* |
| 20:28.13 | dtidrow_work | clearly ``Erik belongs to the church of vi |
| 20:28.24 | ``Erik | yes, the vim sect |
| 20:31.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (13 files in 13 dirs): beginnings of DEPS flags for "make depends" chaining. |
| 20:46.34 | brlcad | ahh |
| 20:48.28 | ``Erik | ? |
| 20:49.47 | brlcad | instead of (re)listing the dependencies.. they're already listed in a couple places |
| 20:50.27 | brlcad | you could parse over the libadd/ldadd stuff, or peek at the _DEPENDENCIES vars or peek in the .deps dirs and build up that directory list automatically |
| 20:51.08 | brlcad | so you don't have to maintain a separate list that'll eventually be out of sync when someone adds a new lib and doesn't notice the DEPS var |
| 20:51.29 | brlcad | it'd always be perfectly in sync |
| 20:51.39 | ``Erik | spoze I coulda tried that, and did sed-fu to strip it down *shrug* but if I did that, then people who're over-verbose in attaching libraries would cause a LOT of duplicate computation |
| 20:52.16 | ``Erik | <-- already annoyed with the amount of replication of computation with the hand-minimized list |
| 20:53.22 | brlcad | replication? |
| 20:54.56 | ``Erik | yeah... if I do 'make depends' in, say, mged... rt->bn->bu->tcl, tk->tcl, so tcl gets two passes |
| 20:54.58 | brlcad | if you need to rebuild mged and be portably sure, it's got to walk the dependency hierarchy for each ldadd lib .. |
| 20:55.28 | brlcad | hmm.. sounds like you need to build up the list of what to do before actually doing it |
| 20:55.38 | ``Erik | I was half tempted to give each dir an "am I built?" target and stopping if that's yes |
| 20:56.00 | ``Erik | that's one way, but to be portable across makes, ... :/ |
| 20:56.56 | brlcad | sure across makes |
| 20:56.56 | brlcad | you do the same traversal you have in depends now .. but make it do two walks .. just not runnning depends on the first walk |
| 20:57.52 | ``Erik | mebbe in the future... |
| 20:58.39 | brlcad | it is, but the hooks they provide should make it work |
| 20:58.47 | brlcad | i fixed a handful of things, there still another problem? |
| 20:58.59 | brlcad | could have disabled more, but I tried to only disable minimal |
| 20:59.07 | ``Erik | how'd you disable it? |
| 20:59.31 | brlcad | Makefile.am cppflags to turn stuff on/off |
| 21:00.05 | brlcad | right |
| 21:00.15 | brlcad | i commited a fix for that yesterday |
| 21:00.18 | ``Erik | libdm/dm_obj.c |
| 21:00.25 | ``Erik | I updated today, it's still breakin' O.o |
| 21:00.27 | brlcad | at least I thought I did |
| 21:00.43 | ``Erik | (also don't remember seeing a cia msg) |
| 21:01.19 | brlcad | huh, that's odd |
| 21:02.05 | brlcad | hrm, maybe the commit errored/timed out and I didn't notice |
| 21:03.58 | brlcad | ahh, yeah, something happened |
| 21:03.59 | brlcad | M pngconf.h |
| 21:04.17 | brlcad | probably queried for a pass and I didn't notice or something |
| 21:06.29 | ``Erik | that's the included png... I'm trying to use the system png |
| 21:07.14 | ``Erik | like guard the setjmp in bu.h and make sure png.h is included before bu.h |
| 21:07.27 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/pngconf.h: disable the linux setjmp.h double-inclusion protection (at least for now) on the assumption that we will get the same setjmp.h and this won't be a problem. add a note that this was modified by us for BRL-CAD. |
| 21:07.38 | ``Erik | since the png fucktards can't figure out how to guard headers right *cougH* |
| 21:07.46 | brlcad | pngconf.h is installed on the system? |
| 21:08.03 | ``Erik | yes$ ls -l /usr/include/pngconf.h |
| 21:08.03 | ``Erik | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Aug 11 12:34 /usr/include/pngconf.h -> libpng12/pngconf.h |
| 21:08.24 | ``Erik | rhel64 on an opteron |
| 21:08.47 | ``Erik | shuffling headers and gaurding in bu.h sound about right? I can take care of it while you do tcl |
| 21:09.05 | brlcad | could work it out so that png.h is just included before our stuff -- it should be actually |
| 21:09.13 | ``Erik | 'k, I'll go about that |
| 21:09.17 | ``Erik | hurry up and finish tcl :D |
| 21:09.32 | brlcad | common.h -> system headers -> public interface headers -> private headers |
| 21:09.37 | ``Erik | so i can unhack regionfix.c and proe-g.c on my thing |
| 21:09.42 | brlcad | png.h is a system header |
| 21:10.18 | brlcad | another fix would be to just set -DPNG_SETJMP_NOT_SUPPORTED |
| 21:10.31 | brlcad | and it skips it altogether |
| 21:12.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: pull system headers up ahead of our headers |
| 21:14.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: pull system headers up ahead of our headers |
| 22:02.23 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 23:37.14 | louipc | more |
| 23:37.20 | louipc | erk |
| 00:17.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad.spec.in: clean up header, add footer, remove reference to GPL as the license |
| 00:22.34 | Maloeran | There are platforms where longjmp() is not supported? |
| 00:23.19 | Maloeran | Assuming it's related to the PNG_SETJMP_NOT_SUPPORTED switch |
| 00:44.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (Makefile.am cvs2cl.pl): remove unused ChangeLog processing perl script (rcs2log is used instead) |
| 00:45.10 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (configure.ac Makefile.am configure.in): rename configure.in to configure.ac |
| 00:50.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/legal/ (Makefile.am gfdl.txt gpl.txt): remove the GPL and GFDL licenses. they are no longer used. all GPL code was relicensed to LGPL, all documentation under the dual-licensing GPL/GFDL were relicensed under the BDL (BSD documentation license). |
| 00:58.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: make .in and .ac files use the autoconf major mode instead of Makefile |
| 02:08.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: remove the Makefile.defs since enigma has it's own configure and will otherwise mess with AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS |
| 02:31.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: let .ac and .in files use the specified indent instead of forcing 8 |
| 03:31.04 | *** join/#brlcad bobbens_ (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134) | |
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| 04:32.21 | *** join/#brlcad zap (n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 04:42.25 | dtidrow | heh |
| 05:13.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: recognize lexer and parser files |
| 05:14.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: recognize lexer and parser files, keep mode and tab-width first in the variable list in case variables/values is ever customized |
| 05:34.16 | brlcad | and damn old autoreconf/automake -f for obliterating COPYING and INSTALL files, presumptiously putting in default GPL verbage |
| 06:14.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add recognition of PD for public domain works, remove the GPL and GFDL sections. |
| 06:19.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: PD work else statement was swapped, fixed. |
| 06:32.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/configure.ac: test application of PD headers, add a footer too along with detail that enigma comes from the Crypt Breaker's Workbench software |
| 06:33.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/enigma.1: Joerg spelled CBW incorrectly -- the proper project name is the Crypt Breaker's Workbench (this mistake has been impressively spread around the world now). |
| 06:36.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: sources |
| 06:40.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/ (awf.in brlman.in): add local variables footer |
| 06:43.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/configure.ac: add a header and footer |
| 06:49.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (126 files in 18 dirs): give adrt some distinctiveness in the header |
| 07:00.14 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (AUTHORS INSTALL ChangeLog NEWS COPYING): initial basic documentation files to appease gnu autotools |
| 07:01.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (Makefile.am build.sh): add new basic doc files, remove the old build.sh script |
| 07:03.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/.cvsignore: ignore autotools turds |
| 07:09.58 | *** join/#brlcad bjork__ (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
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| 07:16.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: er, so it is SOURCE |
| 08:19.23 | *** join/#brlcad sebastienbailard (n=sbailard@CPE000d88ba7a3b-CM001371169626.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) | |
| 08:19.30 | sebastienbailard | Evening all. |
| 08:20.27 | sebastienbailard | Is Sean in? |
| 08:20.46 | sebastienbailard | brlcad: Is Sean in? |
| 08:30.19 | brlcad | hello |
| 08:31.51 | sebastienbailard | Sean, is that you? I'm that fellow with RepRap who pestered you some time abck |
| 08:31.56 | sebastienbailard | back, rather. |
| 08:34.06 | sebastienbailard | Do you remember our exchange of emails? |
| 08:36.42 | sebastienbailard | The reason I came into this channel was to ask if it was possible to use brlcad as an engine in blender to give blender more cad features. |
| 08:37.28 | brlcad | hmm |
| 08:37.33 | sebastienbailard | It's a stupid question I suppose, but it's one that's been rattling in my head as I do the dishes and so on. |
| 08:37.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 08:37.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: change the way COPYING and INSTALL are protected from being clobbered by |
| 08:37.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: automake's stupid behavior of overwriting our files with generic GNU content. |
| 08:37.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: instead of saving a backup to a file in the aux dir, save the contents of the |
| 08:37.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: file to memory (that is even preserved across internal restarts). restore as |
| 08:37.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: needed if/when the content is clobbered. |
| 08:37.53 | brlcad | I get a lot of e-mails.. your name is familiar but not the exact messages, I'd have to pull them up |
| 08:38.08 | brlcad | it's certainly possible, anything is possible with code ;) |
| 08:38.12 | sebastienbailard | I'd just came in to yammer. I'm working on the 3D printer thing. |
| 08:38.28 | brlcad | *but*.. it would be rather complex |
| 08:38.52 | sebastienbailard | This is true. I'd have to bribe the interested devs with a 3D printer. |
| 08:38.53 | brlcad | if only because blender's current geometry interface is rather complex |
| 08:39.14 | brlcad | and the entire modeling methodology isn't geared towards cad/cam or solid modeling |
| 08:39.26 | sebastienbailard | I realize. |
| 08:39.54 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:40.19 | brlcad | there's nothing in the gui that is going to prevent creation of degenerate geometry |
| 08:40.32 | sebastienbailard | The reason I was wondering is that folk are working on porting a 2D cad program into the modeling program ArtOfIllusion. |
| 08:41.08 | brlcad | qcad? |
| 08:41.29 | sebastienbailard | Archimedes. It's an architectural cad. |
| 08:41.32 | brlcad | ah |
| 08:42.09 | sebastienbailard | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:43.43 | sebastienbailard | I'm not sure if the blender devs would be interested. |
| 08:44.29 | sebastienbailard | Or the BRLCAD devs for that matter. |
| 08:44.54 | brlcad | i'm interested in most developments that involve BRL-CAD ;) |
| 08:45.19 | sebastienbailard | Well, I'm going to pester the blender devs a bit. I think we may want a parametric cad tool though. |
| 08:45.42 | brlcad | but that said, there are limits -- e.g. I wouldn't be inclined to integrate with Blender -- they're just not geared for solid modeling in the least, it would cause so many problems |
| 08:46.13 | sebastienbailard | That's fair. |
| 08:46.19 | brlcad | I mean, I wouldn't object to someone else trying -- I'd certainly support them and help with the brl-cad side of things |
| 08:46.49 | sebastienbailard | I didn't think it was a good idea, but I didn't know the answer to the question. |
| 08:47.04 | brlcad | the goal, though, is akin to trying to use Maya for CAD purposes.. |
| 08:47.15 | brlcad | it's just .. problematic on so many levels |
| 08:47.46 | sebastienbailard | That's fair. |
| 08:48.11 | sebastienbailard | The MIT fab lab folk are using blender in lieu of a real CAD program. |
| 08:48.25 | brlcad | it's frankly be easier to integrate with archimedes, even with them being a java code and there needing to be some network interface or jni layer ;) |
| 08:48.51 | brlcad | or extract the blender gui library and use that to build a cad interace |
| 08:48.55 | sebastienbailard | The only problem is that archimedes is 2D cad. |
| 08:49.01 | brlcad | yep |
| 08:49.36 | sebastienbailard | There's a fellow who wrote a free 3D cad program in visual c++ for windows. I'll talk to him. |
| 08:50.17 | sebastienbailard | Well, thank for the well reasoned answer. |
| 08:50.49 | sebastienbailard | And tell me if you ever want to borrow an extruder head to make a 3D printer. |
| 08:51.13 | brlcad | on that similar note, if yourself or others want to make those kinds of improvements to brl-cad directly .. the project is rather open to new developers ;) |
| 08:51.36 | brlcad | heh, will do :) |
| 08:51.51 | sebastienbailard | I was thinking of inviting you to take an informal look at our java driver code, actually. :) |
| 08:52.41 | brlcad | do you directly interface with a particular 3d printer? |
| 08:53.03 | sebastienbailard | Yes. The gpl self replicating one we're building at RepRap.org. |
| 08:53.45 | sebastienbailard | It's not self-replicating _yet_. That will be the 1.0 release. |
| 08:54.17 | brlcad | "it *will* [emphasis mine] be able to make copies of itself" |
| 08:54.31 | sebastienbailard | We're aiming for 2008. |
| 08:54.41 | sebastienbailard | This is how far we've gotten. |
| 08:54.50 | sebastienbailard | http://reprap.blogspot.com/ |
| 08:55.09 | brlcad | heck for $400, I'd buy one .. |
| 08:55.38 | sebastienbailard | Keep an eye out for the announcement of the loaner machines. |
| 08:55.59 | sebastienbailard | We won't be selling them for a while. But we will be sending out loaner machines. |
| 08:56.31 | sebastienbailard | People who happen to have a populated PCB board, steppers, and a reel of filament get on the short list. |
| 08:57.20 | brlcad | curious, how are you currently creating/managing geometry |
| 08:57.46 | brlcad | presumably you have a geometry importer of some sort or a geometry format of your own |
| 08:57.56 | sebastienbailard | STL slicing. I think adrian is working on figuring out support material geometry right now. |
| 08:58.10 | sebastienbailard | I don't know what we're going to do for DXF importing. |
| 08:58.34 | brlcad | hm, "ew" :) |
| 08:58.46 | sebastienbailard | It's a "standard". |
| 08:59.14 | brlcad | "the thing so great about standards is that there are so many to choose from" |
| 08:59.43 | brlcad | stl is just the lowest common denominator for explicit factized geometry, otherwise retains no topological information |
| 08:59.49 | sebastienbailard | Pretty much. I say that to myself everytime I want metric drill bits. |
| 09:00.09 | sebastienbailard | I'm somewhat familiar with stl's lack of virtues. |
| 09:00.24 | sebastienbailard | It happens to be the standard data interchange format in RP. |
| 09:00.50 | brlcad | RP? |
| 09:00.58 | sebastienbailard | rapid prototyping. |
| 09:01.02 | brlcad | ah |
| 09:01.17 | brlcad | i was stuck on "RR" :) |
| 09:01.28 | sebastienbailard | They bitch about stl, but that's what they use. |
| 09:02.15 | brlcad | yeah, we've sent some of our models off to a RP shop nearby, stl was the easiest to extract for them |
| 09:03.02 | brlcad | seems that there are so many better formats though, especially given that it's being turned into effectively rasterized layers when given to the printer |
| 09:04.19 | sebastienbailard | Hmm... |
| 09:04.32 | sebastienbailard | What's your cost / cubic inch? |
| 09:06.43 | brlcad | for this particular shop, there as no cost to us because we have mutually aligned interests |
| 09:07.06 | brlcad | but then our only interactions to date have just been mostly demos and testing |
| 09:07.40 | brlcad | i'm not familiar with what they charge otherwise |
| 09:07.44 | brlcad | at least I don't recall |
| 09:08.27 | sebastienbailard | Ah well. Their business model may change a bit. |
| 09:10.13 | brlcad | they're not commercial, so not readily influenced by industry change .. they serve specific needs/users ;) |
| 09:10.32 | sebastienbailard | Hmm.. |
| 09:11.17 | brlcad | that said, that's an industry that really could use change |
| 09:11.30 | brlcad | it is overly expensive atm |
| 09:12.03 | sebastienbailard | Pretty much. But the fab@home guys have shown how cheap you can do it. |
| 09:12.17 | sebastienbailard | They have a working machine at USD$2.5k. |
| 09:14.53 | brlcad | is that you in the video giving a presentation? |
| 09:14.58 | sebastienbailard | Nope. |
| 09:15.11 | sebastienbailard | Vik Oliver probably. |
| 09:15.24 | brlcad | yeah, vik |
| 09:16.12 | brlcad | so do you know what exactly is fed to the RP machine for a given layer data-wise? |
| 09:16.42 | sebastienbailard | I'm not sure. I still need to crawl through the driver code. |
| 09:17.30 | brlcad | there would definitely be some great potential for direct collaboration there |
| 09:17.45 | sebastienbailard | Do you want to take a look at it then? |
| 09:17.51 | brlcad | brl-cad's support for various geometry format is pretty extensive (including nearly full dxf support) |
| 09:18.17 | sebastienbailard | I had a sense of that. |
| 09:18.57 | sebastienbailard | Do you think we could just pull out some libraries? |
| 09:19.41 | brlcad | as well as a standardized ray-tracing engine for converting models to something like a raster model, or a volumetric model, or layer by layer via CSG, etc |
| 09:20.44 | sebastienbailard | I'll mention it to the 2-3 guys who know what they're talking about. |
| 09:20.48 | brlcad | the core ray-tracing engine is readily extractable or usable as-is though it processes brl-cad's geometry format at that lower level |
| 09:21.30 | brlcad | there's work under way to turn our several dozen converters into a coherent API/library --the code is fairly well-contained per geometry format |
| 09:22.12 | sebastienbailard | I did get the sense that BRL CAD was rigourously modularized. |
| 09:22.22 | sebastienbailard | Do you have 3ds support? |
| 09:22.43 | brlcad | currently, all of the converters are stand-alone commands that can be piped together and used with other utilities |
| 09:23.02 | brlcad | no, 3ds support isn't there |
| 09:23.24 | sebastienbailard | Ah. I see. |
| 09:23.32 | brlcad | several of the 3d geometry formats that aren't relevant to solid modeling specifically haven't been looked into |
| 09:24.15 | sebastienbailard | That's reasonable. |
| 09:25.37 | sebastienbailard | Ah well, I need to sign off, if I'm to get enough sleep. |
| 09:26.08 | sebastienbailard | Thank you for the explanation. |
| 09:28.19 | brlcad | a list of the converters |
| 09:28.20 | sebastienbailard | programmable? |
| 09:28.23 | brlcad | heh |
| 09:28.26 | brlcad | not that kind |
| 09:28.38 | brlcad | a list of the converters if you're interested, uploading now |
| 09:30.33 | sebastienbailard | Ah. I found a table. |
| 09:30.52 | brlcad | basic overview: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 09:31.04 | brlcad | converters: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg |
| 09:31.38 | sebastienbailard | I'm looking at it. |
| 09:32.35 | sebastienbailard | My colleague asserts that dxf is a 2d data format. Is that correct? |
| 09:33.13 | brlcad | dxf has 2d and 3d entities |
| 09:33.24 | sebastienbailard | That's what I thought. |
| 09:33.37 | brlcad | we initially only supported 3d dxf files |
| 09:34.11 | sebastienbailard | I spent a couple hours getting this one toolpath program to work, turns out it does 2D DXF. |
| 09:34.17 | brlcad | which are actually rather common if you're in the solid modeling and/or cad industry and are actually looking at a model of, say, some part |
| 09:34.37 | brlcad | e.g. if you made a sphere in blender, and exported dxf, it'll be a 3d dxf entity |
| 09:34.43 | sebastienbailard | So 3D dxf files are very common, right? |
| 09:34.52 | brlcad | depends on the industry |
| 09:35.04 | sebastienbailard | My colleague must not work in that industry. |
| 09:35.16 | brlcad | in the domains that tend to care less about 3d, it's a lot less common |
| 09:35.35 | brlcad | like if it is a bunch of drawings of a building.. drawings are mostly useless ;) |
| 09:35.48 | sebastienbailard | Well. we're not printing buildings. |
| 09:35.52 | sebastienbailard | That's another guy. |
| 09:36.18 | sebastienbailard | UCLA or USC or something. |
| 09:36.30 | brlcad | we actually import 2D dxf into brl-cad directly, where we have support for 2D sketch entities .. which can of course be extruded into a 3d solid object |
| 09:37.08 | sebastienbailard | hmm... |
| 09:37.33 | sebastienbailard | Hey, you don't know of any foo-> gcode programs out there do you? |
| 09:37.42 | brlcad | actually... |
| 09:39.09 | brlcad | yeah, I do .. one of brl-cad's former devs has been quite busy working on some new CAM software that generates gcode |
| 09:39.09 | sebastienbailard | Does it use opencascade? |
| 09:39.18 | brlcad | no, it's entirely homegrown from scratch |
| 09:39.20 | sebastienbailard | What would it be? |
| 09:39.27 | brlcad | Twingy: wake up |
| 09:39.43 | sebastienbailard | I've spent rather a while looking for that kind of tool. |
| 09:40.38 | sebastienbailard | Do you have a link in the meanwhile? |
| 09:42.34 | brlcad | ~gcam is a the open source GNU Computer-Aided Machingin project, developed by Justin Shumaker, for supporting basic CNC mills by directly exporting g-code to your favorite CNC driver application. See http://gcam.js.cx/ for details. |
| 09:42.36 | ibot | okay, brlcad |
| 09:42.59 | sebastienbailard | doesn't import yet. |
| 09:43.07 | sebastienbailard | Unless it's changed since last night. |
| 09:43.33 | sebastienbailard | I'll check. |
| 09:43.35 | brlcad | yeah, he's not too big on collaboration or using other people's stuff .. :) |
| 09:43.49 | sebastienbailard | Some folk are like that. |
| 09:43.58 | brlcad | yeah |
| 09:44.21 | sebastienbailard | There's another open source printer project out there, fab@home. |
| 09:44.57 | brlcad | shame too, because he really can churn out good stuff useful to others and fast when he puts his mind to it -- several of his projects would have taken off with collaboration |
| 09:45.21 | brlcad | but then .. he gets them to where he wanted them for his purpose, then gets bored and moves on to something else .. |
| 09:45.38 | sebastienbailard | Well, if he ever gets stl and dxf importing going, he'll be popular. |
| 09:45.52 | sebastienbailard | Atleast with the diy cnc crowd. |
| 09:48.09 | brlcad | course he also picked a project name that conflicts with others that have existed longer, but in all fairness I think they're mostly dead projects (like g[tk web]cam[era]) |
| 09:48.44 | sebastienbailard | I know of 2, maybe three other free cam progams out there actively being developed. |
| 09:50.19 | brlcad | in the big scheme of things, brl-cad's actually probably still closest to being a useful cam system just due to all of the attention to the details required for solid modeling and data management that others lack -- just without a user interface exposing that functionality |
| 09:51.01 | sebastienbailard | I think toolpath generation can get a little complicated... |
| 09:52.48 | brlcad | yeah, it can -- which is also another reason it's so important to actually work with solid geometry that provides geometric assurances |
| 09:53.23 | sebastienbailard | I think there would be a lot of interest in that application, if you were to create it. |
| 09:54.07 | brlcad | else you end up really just wasting so much time on issues that are technically np-complete and rather impractically unsolvable for the generic case, where water-tight/crack-free solids matter instead of polygon soup |
| 09:54.59 | sebastienbailard | I think I follow. |
| 09:55.02 | brlcad | there would be, but it's outside of our domain given our focus is heavily on 3D solid modeling for CAD analysis purposes, not concept, design, or machining purposes |
| 09:55.38 | brlcad | each one of those purposes is an entire CAD industry with major players ;) |
| 09:55.52 | sebastienbailard | As a hobby fabricator, it's a gap/ Not necessarily one brlcad has to fill, but a gap. |
| 09:56.17 | brlcad | it's the lower right corner of http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 09:58.33 | sebastienbailard | Hmm... |
| 09:58.39 | brlcad | hm, though how RP exactly falls into that particular diagram is misleading (and unlisted) .. don't think it'd be contiguous, or at least not to appropriate scale |
| 09:59.02 | sebastienbailard | We're doing the cottage industry thing. |
| 09:59.48 | brlcad | the "purposes" I was referring to are the dashed line boxes |
| 10:00.08 | sebastienbailard | Right. Sorry. |
| 10:02.34 | sebastienbailard | Well, I need to sleep. Drop me a line if you start crawling through our code or something. |
| 10:02.44 | brlcad | sounds good |
| 10:02.49 | brlcad | is it all java, or a mix? |
| 10:03.04 | sebastienbailard | Java, with some c for the PICs. |
| 10:03.18 | brlcad | k, thought I heard mention of C code in the presentation |
| 10:03.55 | sebastienbailard | We're not actively courting developers, but if your start submitting patches... |
| 10:04.21 | brlcad | I appreciate the thought, and likewise |
| 10:04.39 | sebastienbailard | Maybe after the 1.0 release. |
| 10:04.46 | sebastienbailard | Take care. |
| 10:04.56 | brlcad | a pleasure |
| 10:05.02 | *** part/#brlcad sebastienbailard (n=sbailard@CPE000d88ba7a3b-CM001371169626.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) | |
| 10:13.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am enigma/COPYING enigma/INSTALL): no longer generating COPYING.backup and INSTALL.backup |
| 10:15.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (COPYING INSTALL): gah, revert retarded GNUism clobbering of INSTALL and COPYING, replacing the the annoying presumptuous GPL and overly verbse installation instructions. |
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| 13:33.53 | Twingy | wtf? wake up at 4:30 AM? weirdo |
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| 19:33.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/Formats.csv: importer/exporter table, based on the conversion slide brlcad@ prepared. |
| 20:05.59 | brlcad | keen |
| 20:06.42 | dtidrow | heh |
| 20:20.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 20:20.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: If told not to build OpenNURBS and cannot find one installed, do not fail. |
| 20:20.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: "Chomp" the surrounding whitespace on the OPENNURBS variable so "x$OPENNURBS" |
| 20:20.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: will resolve to "x" instead of "x ". |
| 20:22.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Only include src/other/opennurbs in the dependancy list if actually building OpenNURBs. |
| 20:38.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/Makefile.am: need libz's cppflags |
| 20:45.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: include Formats.csv in the dist |
| 21:05.26 | ``Erik | http://www.smbc-comics.com/ |
| 21:07.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: fi typo |
| 21:17.48 | ``Erik | awhoops |
| 21:18.55 | ``Erik | (for some reason, my mac is making me hold the escape key for like half a second before accepting it, it's totally mucking up my vim usage) |
| 21:19.51 | brlcad | Activity Monitor show anything? |
| 21:20.39 | ``Erik | nope |
| 21:20.45 | ``Erik | and it only seems to be in X |
| 21:23.22 | ``Erik | lo and behold, it does |
| 21:23.48 | ``Erik | *sigh* it's a mac, it's not supposed to do shit like that, 'restart' and 'reboot' are supposed to be alien concepts :( |
| 21:24.42 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:26.32 | brlcad | ``Erik: they allow it on X11 so the linux/unix weenies feel more comfortable |
| 21:28.28 | dtidrow | you mean the Windows weenies |
| 21:29.00 | ``Erik | heh, I'm more used to sun and bsd o.O reboots are only for certain kinds of kernel upgrades, hw failure on shitty hw, or catastrophic hw failure (like 'nuke' or 'massive meteor') on real machines |
| 21:29.11 | dtidrow | yeah |
| 21:29.53 | dtidrow | haven't rebooted this box in two months, and that was due to a power outage that drained the UPS |
| 21:29.57 | ``Erik | (opposed to linux where ya reboot every other week because 2.6.18a4 was released, or windows where you reboot because you moved your mouse...) |
| 21:30.02 | dtidrow | 10os[Linux 2.6.11-6mdksmp i686] 10cpu[2 x AMD Athlon(tm) Processor @ 1.67GHz] 10mem[Physical : 786MB/2026MB Free] 10disk[Total : 44.58GB/494.87GB Free] 10video[GeForce 6800 Ultra] 10sound[0: EMU10K1 - Sound Blaster Live!] |
| 21:30.31 | dtidrow | heh - only if you like chasing the latest upgrades |
| 21:30.48 | dtidrow | I haven't seen a real need to upgrade in a while |
| 21:31.34 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.42 | dtidrow | though I've been thinking about perhaps trying out another distro instead of Mandrake/Mandriva here |
| 21:31.52 | ``Erik | I wish I had real uptime :( |
| 21:32.14 | ``Erik | I had a p75 with just over 400 days... and last job, a few suns with 1400 something days |
| 21:33.07 | dtidrow | p75 for a firewall? |
| 21:33.26 | ``Erik | no, web/mail server |
| 21:33.58 | dtidrow | well, as long as you don't put a lot of load on it, I guess |
| 21:34.07 | ``Erik | it takes load |
| 21:34.23 | dtidrow | throttled by b/w, then? |
| 21:34.27 | ``Erik | *shrug* usually it stays below 1 unless a lot of people hit the wiki (stupid bots) |
| 21:34.29 | ``Erik | no, fat pipe |
| 21:34.55 | ``Erik | lean pages, almost no graphics at all, and all the html (outside of the wiki) was hand written, not the 8k of comment and div tag shit you see on lame sites |
| 21:35.03 | dtidrow | what's 'fat' these days, anyway? |
| 21:35.13 | ``Erik | I think it's on a t3 |
| 21:35.14 | dtidrow | ah, that helps :-) |
| 21:35.36 | dtidrow | T3 is 45Mbps? |
| 21:35.39 | ``Erik | the pipe outruns the 10baseT card in it *shrug* |
| 21:35.42 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:35.50 | dtidrow | ah |
| 21:36.01 | dtidrow | was thinking it was a home-based system |
| 21:36.07 | ``Erik | 5.6 megs/sec, and it's got a shoddy isa 10baseT |
| 21:36.51 | ``Erik | my 850mhz home box lost the power supply a couple weekends ago, so my 'experiment' box is doing that duty :( |
| 21:36.55 | dtidrow | couldn't you drop a nice 3com 100bT PCI card into it? |
| 21:37.08 | ``Erik | in what, the p75? |
| 21:37.10 | dtidrow | yeah |
| 21:37.13 | ``Erik | why? |
| 21:37.22 | dtidrow | to better match the T3 |
| 21:37.37 | dtidrow | or does it have the T3 card in it? |
| 21:37.50 | ``Erik | it gets daily backups, when the fans seize up and the machine cooks, it'll get chucked in the garbage and I'll find another place to put the name and page |
| 21:38.08 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:38.37 | dtidrow | does a p75 even ned fans? ;-) |
| 21:38.39 | dtidrow | need |
| 21:38.54 | ``Erik | the machine's name is 'phoenix', it supplanted 'lazarus'... both were dead machines that were donated to a linux users club, made to work, put in a friendly isps' corner, and that was that... |
| 21:39.29 | ``Erik | depends on how cold the room is and how big the heat sink is :D |
| 21:39.45 | dtidrow | yeah, I've got a bunch of old hardware collected from various parking lot 'swap meets' at NOVALUG meetings :-) |
| 21:40.12 | dtidrow | if the fans die, put it outside (at least until spring) ;-) |
| 21:40.27 | dtidrow | should keep it nice and cool.... |
| 21:40.29 | ``Erik | <-- was heavily involved in the southern missouri linux users club, even after seing the light and going the way of bsd :) |
| 21:40.34 | ``Erik | seeing |
| 21:40.47 | dtidrow | bsd is fringe |
| 21:40.59 | ``Erik | fbsd rocks my socks off |
| 21:41.09 | ``Erik | and is a lot less fringe than ya'd think... it's just not... well... marketted.. |
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| 23:15.19 | louipc | pity. I was considering using fbsd but I'd like to keep my socks |
| 23:30.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:35.41 | brlcad | mm.. food |
| 23:39.21 | louipc | bbq ribs |
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| 00:27.27 | IriX64 | dinner had me for lunch ;) |
| 00:28.28 | IriX64 | mmm +e = eavesdrop mode ? :) |
| 00:30.20 | IriX64 | question... when you enable-almost-everything does with-x still need to be specified (goof try it and see but im lazy) |
| 00:31.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: gah, search the configure.ac file instead of just sitting there idle |
| 00:33.30 | ``Erik | if X is in a 'normal' place, it should just be included... if it's in a weird place, it needs to be specified |
| 00:33.54 | ``Erik | <-- has a few machines with /usr/Xorg to intentionally break stuff that assumes /usr/X11R6 /usr/X11 /usr/X |
| 00:34.07 | IriX64 | so even with-x isn't needed? |
| 00:34.23 | IriX64 | got it thanks. |
| 00:39.38 | IriX64 | doh X is already up. |
| 00:39.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: missing var init when printing summary of invalid macros in use |
| 00:41.13 | IriX64 | just out of curiosity, how many ppl have managed to get brlcad to compile on a cygwin installation? |
| 00:43.07 | IriX64 | I sent ValarQ some screen shots of my attempts. :) |
| 00:44.14 | ``Erik | not a clue, there are msvc 6 and 7 things |
| 00:44.39 | IriX64 | man msvc does not apply here. |
| 00:45.01 | IriX64 | visual c on cygwin? :) |
| 00:45.28 | dtidrow | cygwin ought to be using the makefiless, I would imagine |
| 00:45.49 | IriX64 | started from autogen compiling now. |
| 00:46.38 | IriX64 | all the nurb stuff going by. |
| 00:47.48 | IriX64 | mc |
| 00:49.12 | IriX64 | if winsock.h is defined it bombs till i comment out that define, multiple defintions errors |
| 01:09.22 | brlcad | IriX64: i've compiled (fully) and run under cygwin several times |
| 01:09.56 | brlcad | sometimes requires a few patches, sometimes it's been clean .. depends on the state of things |
| 01:11.51 | brlcad | couldn't get mged tk interface to come up due to some tk run-time problems (wrong compilation flags), but it compiles and classic runs fine |
| 01:38.03 | IriX64 | 24 minutes 46 seconds compile time |
| 01:38.55 | IriX64 | just about installed the channel :) |
| 01:39.59 | IriX64 | usually compiles clean here (cept for that winsock thing) and runs fine. |
| 01:40.44 | IriX64 | importF4gSection.c tho has some functions that are defined already in fast4g |
| 01:43.34 | Maloeran | Hey IriX64, we haven't seen you around for a while |
| 01:44.37 | Maloeran | I never realized Mark was rewording my progress reports, "too technical" apparently |
| 01:50.31 | ``Erik | 'progress reports' are for nontechnical people to say "oh, cool, ti's all good" or "ohs noes, do we need to find him some help?" |
| 01:56.56 | IriX64 | Maloeran: been busy.. |
| 01:58.25 | Maloeran | *nods* I thought it was mostly read by you, Lee, Mark |
| 01:58.36 | IriX64 | well, it's up now what do I do with it :) |
| 02:05.40 | louipc | hmm none of the three sites listed for URToolkit sources work |
| 04:47.51 | Maloeran | Ah, no big deal Erik |
| 04:47.57 | Maloeran | Mark : "I needed to reword progress report since management didn't understand most of what was in it :). Please review my update (attached) [...]" |
| 07:09.32 | brlcad | mm |
| 08:00.03 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/pkgIndex.tcl: force specification of the Archer package, even though there's a processing error related to env(ARCHER_HOME) that still has to be fixed. this issue was noticed and fixed by Yugami - marcbritten, sf patch #1612642. |
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| 08:20.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: |
| 08:20.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: noticed that src/tclscripts/bgerror.tcl is documented to have been written by |
| 08:20.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: Rick Garriques, Jr. so credit him accordingly. although initially written in |
| 08:20.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 2000, the file was added (by bob) as part of the windows port effort. |
| 08:22.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: |
| 08:22.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: env(ARCHER_HOME) needs to get set to something even if the set in the catch |
| 08:22.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: statement fails in order for a pkgIndex.tcl to have the appropriate package |
| 08:22.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: ifneeded generated. it was failing because argv0 is not necessarily set. |
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| 08:54.32 | clock__ | brlcad: when I do some editing and then type "reset", it resets only the active pane |
| 08:54.42 | clock__ | When I select reset from the menu it resets all of them |
| 08:54.44 | clock__ | Is this a bug? |
| 08:55.15 | brlcad | not really |
| 08:55.23 | brlcad | it is inconsistent, but expected |
| 08:55.42 | brlcad | commands are (almost entirely?) written to only apply to the current pane |
| 08:55.52 | brlcad | menu options are a mix |
| 08:55.59 | brlcad | depending on the checkbox |
| 08:57.05 | brlcad | the commands should/could be modified to respect the "apply to all panes" checkbox, but that would be a new improvement |
| 09:20.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: f. hartley |
| 10:48.50 | brlcad | mm.. breakfast |
| 11:22.59 | clock__ | hartley is it the guy who invented the hartley oscillator? |
| 11:26.21 | brlcad | nah, he was a summer student that work on the initial code conversion from k&r syntax to ansi |
| 11:28.44 | archivist | hartley oscillator goes way to valve(tube) days |
| 11:29.13 | archivist | way back |
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| 13:20.28 | archivist | It was invented by Ralph Hartley, who filed for a patent on June 1, 1915 and was awarded patent number 1,356,763 on October 26, 1920. |
| 13:20.41 | archivist | way way way back |
| 13:32.14 | clock__ | Who got the patent #1, when and for what? For the wheel? For the fire? |
| 13:32.26 | clock__ | For sex? |
| 13:32.51 | clock__ | Method and apparatus for automated procreation in mammal species "Homo Sapiens" in extralaboratory conditions |
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| 22:00.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: stash a cvs id for version reporting |
| 22:12.39 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 22:41.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 22:41.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: make autogen.sh now report a version number based on the last commit date as |
| 22:41.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: well as an auto-extracted copyright range. turn the version error reporting |
| 22:41.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: into a function so it can be updated in one place and fix/remove the trailing |
| 22:41.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: _SH that didn't belong. add comments at the beginning of each of the manual |
| 22:41.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: steps. when stashing COPYING and INSTALL in memory, make sure they actually fit |
| 22:41.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: -- irix seems to have issues. |
| 22:59.53 | *** join/#brlcad SWAT (n=SWAT@a80-100-68-159.adsl.xs4all.nl) | |
| 23:12.16 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168057882.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:46.19 | SWAT | how can I open an .igs file with brlcad? (and for that matter, how can I turn/view it, and afterwards print it?) |
| 23:48.06 | SWAT | and is there a way to convert an .igs file to .dwg or .dxf so it can be opened in other applications? (in combination with this, is it possible that a commercial tool would use it's own (incompatible) version of IGES which can't be read by brlcad?) |
| 00:15.20 | ``Erik | if .igs is IGES, you have to use iges-g to convert the IGES file to a BRL-CAD .g database file |
| 00:16.30 | ``Erik | and if you do iges-g to amke a .g file, then you can do g-dxf to make a .dxf file |
| 02:56.12 | brlcad | SWAT: in addition to what ``Erik said, yes it is possible to have a elements in an IGES file that are either custom extensions by that commercial tool, or perhaps 2D elements that brl-cad wouldn't otherwise care about (since we strongly focus on solid modeling) |
| 02:57.23 | brlcad | once you have a brl-cad .g file, you can open that with mged to view a wireframe and ray-trace images of any viewpoint, saving the images to files and using your favorite image viewer software to them print |
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| 10:49.43 | SWAT | hmmm, still something goes wrong. The .dxf files are empty and the .g files probably also contain errors. Could you take a look at it? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5029/ |
| 11:25.28 | SWAT | will brlcad ever get an interface like qcad or autocad? |
| 11:36.23 | clock_ | no |
| 12:16.06 | SWAT | any idea on what goes wrong when I convert the .igs file to .g and .dxf? |
| 13:53.07 | ``Erik | did you read the output of iges-g ? |
| 13:53.45 | ``Erik | it says that there was no solid geometry found, just 2d drawings... and it says that nothing was converted and suggests a way to get your 2d drawings out of the iges file... |
| 13:54.46 | ``Erik | down |
| 13:55.20 | ``Erik | ok, g-dxf can't do globbing, and you didn't escape it, you gave it a list of files in the directory as names |
| 13:55.30 | ``Erik | sorry, all that whitespace confuzzled me :D |
| 13:55.49 | ``Erik | do something like "mged -c testfile.g tops" to get a list of toplevel objects |
| 13:56.06 | ``Erik | then do g-dxf -o testfile.dxf testfile.g <toplevel objects> |
| 14:01.08 | ``Erik | http://techdigest.tv/pcmaclinux.jpg |
| 14:03.26 | brlcad | from the looks of the first output, there are no 3D solids and no 2D drawings in that .iges file -- you might try the other suggested option of -3 for 3D drawings |
| 14:04.15 | brlcad | and specifying * for g-dxf is rather wrong, you have to know/specify the object name(s) |
| 14:05.24 | SWAT | thanks for the info, I'm going to try them. ``Erik, did you get that picture from the planet? :) |
| 14:13.41 | SWAT | I guess it starts out by creating a 'good' .g file (I guess I b0rked this up from the start). The -3 option gives me "No drawing entities and No view entities". If I try the '-t' flag 0 surfaces are converted. |
| 14:14.12 | SWAT | I'm going to try and use another .igs file, if you have any thoughts, just say so, I'm very open to suggestions |
| 14:19.31 | SWAT | "Unrecognized IGES version", could this be the source of the errors? |
| 14:23.25 | brlcad | SWAT: potentially, but the fact that it lists out the entity types found more indicates that there is "stuff" in there that it finds, just nothing useful to a 3D solid modeler |
| 14:23.40 | brlcad | ideally, it wants 3D solids |
| 14:24.06 | brlcad | what is generating the iges file? |
| 14:24.14 | SWAT | on another file (when "-t" is used) I get lots of output, among with are: "WARNING: UV point outside of domain of surface!!!" and "Convtrimsurfs: Cannot find a point in fu" |
| 14:24.54 | brlcad | that's a good sign, sounds like there are trimmed nurbs surfaces |
| 14:24.55 | SWAT | brlcad, I'm going to be honest, I don't really know. I 'guess' it's software like SolidWorks or something |
| 14:26.35 | brlcad | another issue could be version compatibility -- brl-cad's support is pretty comprehensive, but only up to version 4.5 or 5 (forget exactly) |
| 14:27.08 | brlcad | if something is outputting the handful of entity extensions added since, there might be issue, though that generally hasn't been an issue |
| 14:28.18 | SWAT | well, my .g file seems to be 104 bytes big, which means it didn't work ;) |
| 14:28.26 | brlcad | yep |
| 14:29.00 | SWAT | I wish I could e-mail you the files, but I can't. Do you have any advice? (except buying/getting/installing Windows and commercial software XXX) |
| 14:30.02 | brlcad | aside from sharing the iges file (which would be the most expedient) .. hmm |
| 14:30.23 | brlcad | I don't think blender has an iges importer iirc do they |
| 14:30.39 | brlcad | otherwise you could try them as an intermediate too |
| 14:31.17 | brlcad | did iges-g produce a 104 byte file after each of the various options? |
| 14:32.12 | SWAT | yes |
| 14:32.48 | brlcad | i suggest trying all the iges-g conversion option combinations just to see, -n -d -t |
| 14:32.48 | SWAT | I can go ask if they have 'dummy' iges files, but most of it is highly confidential. |
| 14:33.24 | SWAT | I tried all of them, and the only one that gives me any output that shows me that there is progress, is the "-t" flag |
| 14:33.38 | SWAT | I just love the commercial/closed-source world.... :-/ |
| 14:33.42 | brlcad | if this is from a commercial CAD sytem, there's going to be an option on the export to generate an IGES file that we can read almost for sure |
| 14:34.07 | brlcad | iges export panels are usually riddled with checkboxes ;) |
| 14:34.52 | SWAT | and n00bs who ignore them (just like the great AutoCAD formats) |
| 14:35.13 | brlcad | need to check the box(es) that say export solids/brep/bspline surfaces .. if there are only drawings and/or 2D entities, you're not going to get far with brl-cad |
| 14:36.36 | SWAT | brlcad, thanks for the help/advice. What else could I do? (if it contains drawings and/or 2d entities, just for the sake of argument) |
| 14:36.48 | brlcad | another possibility would be to simply export to a different file format, iges is great when it works but a royal pain when it doesn't .. something more simplified like stl or dxf or ply might be easier |
| 14:37.28 | brlcad | if it contains only 2D entities, you're going to need a drafting CAD package .. probably best to export to dxf and import that into qcad or somesuch |
| 14:37.37 | SWAT | iges has become the new standard for some companies and I guess they are unwilling to export also to .dxf or whatever (because it's more work, the bastards) |
| 14:37.49 | brlcad | iges is the "old standard" :) |
| 14:37.53 | brlcad | step is the new standard |
| 14:38.37 | SWAT | ah, OK. I guess it's .stp? And how does brl-cad to with STEP files? (would I get the same issues as I get now with IGES?) |
| 14:38.49 | brlcad | nobody on the open source side does step yet, though we're probably closest to having one implemented later this year |
| 14:39.15 | brlcad | STEP is even more complicated that IGES was, but more comprehensive too and more reliable |
| 14:39.45 | brlcad | either way, though, it's not going to help you today unless you have access to a commercial cad system |
| 14:40.35 | SWAT | hmmm, crap |
| 14:41.08 | SWAT | seeing that you're channel admin etc., I guess you're the lead developer of this project? |
| 14:41.39 | brlcad | yeah |
| 14:42.12 | SWAT | since I have some customers who have this issue, how could we solve it? |
| 14:42.50 | SWAT | I mean, in what direction should we 'stear' the companies? |
| 14:42.55 | SWAT | use .dxf by default? |
| 14:43.06 | brlcad | your best bet is to probably try different iges export options from whomever is providing them to you -- going for 4.5 IGES for example and specifying creation of solids or drawings at least by default |
| 14:43.39 | brlcad | i wouldn't suggest dxf by default |
| 14:44.07 | brlcad | step is really the way to go for full compatibility and reduction of introduction of modeling error or other information loss |
| 14:44.31 | brlcad | it's pretty much a fully-preserving format, whereas all of the others (including iges) aren't necessarily |
| 14:45.15 | SWAT | so STEP *is* already the way to go (it's finished and the format is open?)? |
| 14:45.36 | brlcad | it's finished, it's an ISO standard |
| 14:45.53 | SWAT | :-) |
| 14:46.19 | brlcad | it's also a very complicated and expensive ISO standard and just as unpublishable as most ISO standards |
| 14:46.39 | SWAT | and do you know if any of the commercial packages are 'mean' and have their own STEP implementation? (c.q. their own little format, which quirks) |
| 14:46.52 | brlcad | but mostly irrelevant to "us" as we've already paid for the relevant portions of the STEP standard (few thousand $$) |
| 14:47.11 | brlcad | i've yet to see that |
| 14:48.06 | brlcad | the step specification actually includes validation and correctness rules too, it would be rather "difficult" to say the least |
| 14:49.00 | brlcad | more likely is that it might contain some geometry that a given system doesn't understand/support -- the format itself is sort of the union of all CAD system formats |
| 14:49.25 | SWAT | hmmm, it almost seems to good to be true |
| 14:49.30 | brlcad | so whether your system cares that there are "dashed 2D line curves" or not still depends on the converter |
| 14:50.05 | brlcad | oh, it's not too good to be true -- perhaps I'm not conveying just exactly how "complicated and expensive" it is ;) |
| 14:50.13 | SWAT | so now we have to wait for all the commercial and non-commercial packages to support STEP and then 'force' everyone to use STEP? |
| 14:50.41 | brlcad | iges is probably 10 times to complexity of dxf which is probably 10 times the complexity of a simple polygonal format that opengl might want |
| 14:50.50 | brlcad | step is about 10 times more complex than iges |
| 14:51.24 | brlcad | most of the commercial systems already support step -- adoption started in early 2000's |
| 14:51.49 | SWAT | damn, sounds pretty complex (and complex mostly isn't good). I'm all 'for' open-standards and open-source (OpenDocument Format is a great standard) |
| 14:51.55 | brlcad | open source has had zero penetration simply because of the expense of the standard and nicheness of the market |
| 14:52.36 | SWAT | qcad mostly only supports .dxf (afaik) |
| 14:52.39 | brlcad | that and the fact that there are only a couple open source CAD systems, and we're by far the most developed in most respects |
| 14:53.05 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg mentions step briefly |
| 14:54.27 | SWAT | I'm pretty impressed by brl-cad. At first I found it hard to figure out (the .deb didn't work here), but now I see it has lots of small programs that are pretty strong on their own. Only the GUI is horrible (mged) if you compare it to qcad etc.. But that's my vision |
| 14:54.57 | brlcad | yep, that is a pretty reasonable summary |
| 14:55.24 | brlcad | mged's failings are well known too -- a new/better interface is one of the top priorities to "fix" |
| 14:55.34 | ``Erik | the pic was from another channel... on another network... :) |
| 14:55.36 | SWAT | ow great :) |
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| 14:56.01 | SWAT | brlcad, please take a look at autocad/qcad for a gui (and just start with those and make a better one) |
| 14:56.16 | brlcad | most of the underlying features and power of the geometric modeling engine are decades beyond (effort-wise) what can be found anywhere else .. just the modeling interface is currently .. painful. |
| 14:56.30 | SWAT | I mean, Windows had a pretty good gui too, but the menu was horrible (no HCI at all) |
| 14:56.54 | brlcad | autocad/qcad are drafters .. which actually is only partially relevant to solid modeling |
| 14:57.01 | clock_ | qcad interface is sometimes horrible as well. |
| 14:57.15 | clock_ | Especially v.1 was |
| 14:57.25 | clock_ | like changing the zoom was a diploma thesis for half an hour |
| 14:57.43 | SWAT | yet the 'drafters' are often used (very often, as far as I know) |
| 14:57.57 | clock_ | brlcad: don't worry, qcad is crap too :) |
| 14:57.57 | brlcad | autocad, pro-engineer, unigraphics, solidworks.. all being taken into consideration and fairly well known at least by myself and a few others as to their own strengths and weaknesses |
| 14:58.22 | SWAT | brlcad, before I forget it, I mean, I gave some harsh criticism... Great work everyone! It's appreciated :) |
| 14:59.01 | brlcad | SWAT: it's alright -- that's part of what's great about open source, being able to critique, recognize the dificiencies, look at the code, and fix/improve things :) |
| 14:59.09 | clock_ | brlcad: qcad 1.x had some great features like when you save the file, it forgets all line thicknesses in the layers |
| 14:59.20 | clock_ | So if you want to add a contour line, you get a zero thickness |
| 14:59.41 | clock_ | In practice when you opened a file you had to manually reset all the thicknesses you planned to work with - great afterburner for productivity |
| 15:00.31 | ``Erik | yay, power supply surgery was successful |
| 15:01.27 | brlcad | SWAT: the main concern is that autocad provides an interface that is more geared towards concept and design purposes .. which yes, are heavily 2D drafting-centric for some shops |
| 15:01.41 | SWAT | brlcad, yes, that's the great thing about it. I'm probably going to work on a pretty big project soon, but I'll just have to see. My time is very much limited and I just wanted to inquire here and give some feedback (hopefully good and constructive) |
| 15:02.20 | brlcad | the problem is that the domain of "CAD" as a generic industry is utterly massive and one must focus resources else you end up with a variety of useless metiocrity |
| 15:02.39 | SWAT | correct |
| 15:02.41 | brlcad | SWAT: have you seen our industry diagram |
| 15:04.13 | SWAT | brlcad, not yet... I just have very basic cad experience (very very basic, about 120 minutes) |
| 15:05.27 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:06.10 | brlcad | from a system perspective, AutoCAD falls pretty squarely on the CADD domain |
| 15:06.47 | brlcad | something like ArchiCAD is of course CAAD, a CAM system like GibbsCAM is an MCAD system |
| 15:07.26 | clock_ | CAC |
| 15:07.31 | clock_ | Computer Aided Contraptions |
| 15:07.32 | brlcad | Rhino3D is sort of a CAID system |
| 15:07.35 | SWAT | okay, this is too niche-specific for me. But I guess I know what you mean |
| 15:08.16 | brlcad | solidworks is a big system that falls more in line with the centralized "CAD" domain as is unigraphics |
| 15:09.45 | brlcad | the dashed lines indicate the purpose that those systems/markets generally tend to focus on -- e.g. drafting systems are heavily used for concept and design, but rarely for analysis and manufacturing |
| 15:10.06 | SWAT | true |
| 15:10.44 | SWAT | btw, are you funded by the US government (I saw the US eagle on the project website)? |
| 15:11.12 | clock_ | SWAT: they are CAM, Computer Aided Millitary |
| 15:12.44 | ``Erik | ciad... computer illiterates aiding military... |
| 15:13.08 | clock_ | CIA - Computer Illiterate Analysis? |
| 15:13.21 | ``Erik | completely idiotic asshoel? |
| 15:13.23 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 15:13.32 | ``Erik | sorry, I'll go bac to my cage now O:-) |
| 15:13.34 | ``Erik | back |
| 15:13.44 | clock_ | ``Erik: Remember OpenBSD lost funding because criticizing the Iraq qar |
| 15:13.46 | clock_ | war |
| 15:14.02 | clock_ | how long do you think BRL-CAD will have funding when you called CIA Completely Idiotic Assholes? |
| 15:14.20 | ``Erik | probably about as long as it'd have without me shooting my mouth off... |
| 15:14.51 | SWAT | clock_, harhar, very funny |
| 15:14.54 | clock_ | ``Erik: now repeat: "I love Uncle Sam and his American Dream" |
| 15:15.22 | clock_ | ``Erik: give me 20 and clean all toilets with your toothbrush :) |
| 15:16.08 | brlcad | SWAT: yes, BRL-CAD comes from the U.S. Army Research Laboratory, developed there for 20+ years before being turned into open source |
| 15:16.28 | clock_ | ``Erik: long hair is hippie and hippies are enemy of the US National Interests |
| 15:16.51 | brlcad | it continues to be funded and developed to this day, though the open source side of things has breathed some new life into developments that ARL wouldn't have supported |
| 15:17.35 | clock_ | SWAT: they planted some backdoors and trojans into the code and opened it so hippies now start using it as it's free, design some weapons, and the trojans copy themselves into the weapons and then DoD will be able to log in remotely and turn the weapons into cute tamagotchis |
| 15:20.22 | clock_ | brlcad: well BRL-CAD it's a bit insignificant step in light of the fact that Russians open sourced their atomic weapons and are now giving them out to any bypasser :) |
| 15:22.31 | brlcad | always going for the political angle, I see |
| 15:25.17 | clock_ | brlcad: is it possible that BRL-CAD generates data for CNC tooling? |
| 15:26.04 | clock_ | brlcad: for me BRL-CAD is not interesting as a millitary tool, but a tool to bypass the go-to-work-make-money-go-to-shop-buy-a-consumer-product loop |
| 15:28.27 | ``Erik | clock: provided you write the code to output the appropriate format, sure... :) |
| 15:28.39 | ``Erik | like a g-gcode converter, hhe |
| 15:28.59 | clock_ | Hmm write code, funny |
| 15:29.10 | ``Erik | (ahhh, shower fresh, w00t) |
| 15:29.13 | brlcad | there is no g-gcode |
| 15:29.27 | ``Erik | yet |
| 15:29.40 | ``Erik | clock is gonna write us a g-gcode.c :D |
| 15:29.44 | SWAT | clock_, keyword: MS Windows XP and Vista. Go! |
| 15:33.32 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:35.06 | SWAT | the NSA helped with the development of XP/Vista. I expected a reply with 'backdoors', 'trojans' etc. etc. etc. |
| 15:35.38 | brlcad | he's usually like a wind-up toy once someone gets him started |
| 15:35.41 | brlcad | must be busy ;) |
| 15:37.46 | brlcad | for what it's worth, "BRL-CAD is not interesting as a military tool" for me either, or most of the people that have ever worked on the project for that matter .. it's used for many many purposes and is just a graphics CAD system when it comes down to it |
| 15:38.28 | brlcad | ``Erik: weren't those mostly all wigs? :) |
| 15:38.44 | ``Erik | heh, for the bald people, sure :D |
| 15:39.15 | brlcad | mm. no more "big wigs" party, that'd be pretty funny today |
| 15:40.11 | brlcad | 80 |
| 15:40.19 | brlcad | 80's mohawk |
| 15:41.02 | ``Erik | it's hav eto be a fauxhawk, I'm not shaving the sides of my head... I'm not that lame :D |
| 15:41.03 | brlcad | a bet particular image-conscious bosses would love seeing you with a two foot blue spike |
| 15:41.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:41.30 | ``Erik | with enough jelly, I could make my real hair a hella crazy fauxhawk |
| 15:41.46 | ``Erik | been a while since I've dyed my hair blue... *scratches chin* |
| 15:42.16 | ``Erik | we should send her to defcon some year... heheehehhe |
| 15:42.34 | brlcad | hmm.. i haven't colored mine approaching two years *gasp* |
| 15:43.21 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, uh, I don't think she'd consider that anywhere close to the same scale as, say, blue or green or purple... :D |
| 15:44.02 | brlcad | i think you should spike it blue, send pjt a picture and ask if you can be a pointy-haired boss |
| 15:44.09 | brlcad | (too) |
| 15:44.14 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:44.20 | ``Erik | two big honkin' spikes, one on each side of the head |
| 15:44.27 | ``Erik | optimus prime style, yo |
| 15:44.40 | clock_ | brlcad: if you print out some long listing in mged, then press page up, page down and then type a command, it types the command in front of the prompt instead of after the prompt. And then it ignores the command. Isn't this a bug? |
| 15:58.02 | brlcad | a long-standing one, minor annoyance that nobody has bothered trying to track down |
| 16:00.08 | ``Erik | is it in the tracker? |
| 16:01.06 | brlcad | maybe, don't remember |
| 16:04.00 | brlcad | either way, now it's in BUGS |
| 16:04.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged command prompt will have the cursor reset to before the 'mged>' prompt after performing certain actions (e.g. page up/down) |
| 16:05.45 | brlcad | something to do with the text-area tk widget as mged doesn't specifically have a page up/down binding |
| 16:06.01 | brlcad | at least I just went looking for it and don't see it |
| 16:10.25 | ``Erik | still fighting tcl, I take it? |
| 16:11.53 | brlcad | chugging along |
| 16:12.06 | brlcad | it's all compiling now, but some portability annoyances with pic crap again now |
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| 18:20.54 | debarshi | What is the license of BRL-CAD? |
| 18:29.25 | clock_ | GPL |
| 18:30.03 | debarshi | clock_: Thanks. |
| 19:00.04 | SWAT | right... |
| 19:00.31 | SWAT | that information can't be found on the project page or on sourceforge or something ;) |
| 19:10.53 | IriX64 | pkg_suckin read error? |
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| 20:37.11 | ``Erik | lgpl with bsd chucnks (and a couple others iirc0, actually |
| 21:41.46 | brlcad | clock_: it's predominantly LGPL now |
| 21:42.21 | brlcad | BSD for the build system, benchmark suite, testing scripts, a few other utility scripts, and the documentation |
| 21:44.31 | brlcad | which according to ohloh is about an 80/20 split percentage-wise |
| 21:51.59 | ``Erik | huh, neat, a cvs analyzer |
| 21:54.31 | ``Erik | pretty easy to spot 'major events' on that timeline... |
| 21:54.51 | ``Erik | jra goes to 0 at the start of hell project.. and the move to sf... |
| 21:56.57 | ``Erik | kinda unfortunate cvs isn't aware of moving files or silly things like scripts... someone is overrepresented :D |
| 22:01.41 | clock_ | ``Erik: svn is |
| 22:01.54 | clock_ | ``Erik: I used first CVS, then Arch, and now SVN on Ronja |
| 22:02.13 | clock_ | CVS sucks by design |
| 22:02.24 | clock_ | Arch sucked at the moment when it was unable to read it's own archive |
| 22:02.39 | clock_ | got trashed at that moment and replaced by Subversion. |
| 22:02.43 | ``Erik | svn captures file moves because it's change set based instead of file history... |
| 22:02.53 | ``Erik | but it doesn't do, say, scriptware monitoring |
| 22:03.44 | ``Erik | so "find . -type f | xargs sed -E -i.bak 's/[ \t]+$//'" ends up looking like a lot of diligent work... |
| 22:05.34 | ``Erik | I'm also fairly against restructering organization... generally means it wasn't thought out in the first place... BRL-CAD warranted one as it's an ancient project and conventions had changed radically... :) |
| 22:30.46 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 22:30.55 | Maloeran | It's only when writing the networking demos that I realized it was a pain for the user to manage the clients, synchronize its own data ( textures, whatever ) |
| 22:31.13 | Maloeran | So I shifted design for the library to take care of everything ; including user-land data |
| 22:31.21 | ``Erik | ayup, gotta make sure the right bits are at the right place at the right time |
| 22:31.39 | Maloeran | Now, it doesn't even have to care what, how and when clients connect ; work is just silently distributed |
| 22:31.41 | ``Erik | if the planets of your created universe don't align just right, it don't go |
| 22:32.42 | Maloeran | 50 days, mmhm :) |
| 22:33.11 | ``Erik | 50 days is terminal... the goal should be a fair bit inside of that :) |
| 22:33.41 | Maloeran | Right, I'm returning to the work output of the first couple months, AI experiments ( working quite well by the way ) will wait |
| 22:35.02 | Maloeran | How's the wrapper thing coming along? |
| 22:35.15 | ``Erik | slowly |
| 22:35.17 | ``Erik | I'm lazy |
| 22:35.22 | ``Erik | and distracted |
| 22:35.31 | Maloeran | Ah, so I'm not the only one :) |
| 22:36.07 | ``Erik | oh |
| 22:36.12 | ``Erik | and I got to write two project plans this week |
| 22:36.26 | Maloeran | Sounds great! Aren't you overflowing with motivation? |
| 22:36.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:36.46 | ``Erik | I've already put forward the idea of putting a jar on my desk and if anyone asks me a question, they have to put a buck in it |
| 22:37.51 | ``Erik | librt is wired into the framework and working ok, adrt is 'mostly' wired in, extracting triangle info from the csg's is the part I'm working on now... and the ray fire SHOULD be a trivial thing after that |
| 22:38.30 | ``Erik | but once I have adrt wired in, I'll have to fix the control function to provide the proper 'golden' shots and a grid |
| 22:38.40 | Maloeran | Your single-ray function is called from multiple threads, right? |
| 22:38.45 | ``Erik | no |
| 22:38.49 | Maloeran | Oh. |
| 22:38.55 | ``Erik | right now, it's all single threaded |
| 22:39.10 | ``Erik | but I could easily thread it out somewhere... it's a single shot function, though |
| 22:39.34 | Maloeran | Is it meant to be threaded? Because I would need to keep track of data specific to each thread, just some pointer... If it's single threaded, I can just put that stuff as globals |
| 22:39.53 | ``Erik | no, at the moment, I'm thinking straight up single threaded |
| 22:40.19 | ``Erik | and mebbe, if it's appropriate, we could do a quick 'by thumb' scalability exercise... which'd probably be the distributed aspect more than the threaded aspect |
| 22:42.06 | Maloeran | Eh, scalability and threading for shooting one ray at a time, what a mess :) |
| 22:42.56 | ``Erik | well, this framework is for three reasons |
| 22:43.06 | ``Erik | to make sure rayforce produces reasonably correct results |
| 22:43.15 | ``Erik | and demo how it can be wired into the 'goal' application... |
| 22:43.24 | ``Erik | and to prove at least 5x over adrt |
| 22:43.45 | Maloeran | At least 5x could be tight if you don't give me SSE-packed ray batches |
| 22:43.52 | Maloeran | But you know that already |
| 22:44.08 | ``Erik | if it fails the 5x, we'll start looking why and if adrt was unfairly advantaged... and go from there *shrug* |
| 22:44.41 | ``Erik | and 'reasonably' correct is something that'll be a discussion (based on perliminary results) with leebert and possibly mark |
| 22:45.19 | ``Erik | if you're thinking 'function call overhead', I've already put forth the idea of having a dumby function (just returns) to measure that and subtract it from both engines times |
| 22:45.26 | ``Erik | dummy |
| 22:46.01 | Maloeran | It's not really the calling overhead... It's the fact that a one-ray-at-a-time function discards all optimisation based on the coherency and locality of rays |
| 22:46.21 | Maloeran | Plus of course the SSE packing |
| 22:46.44 | Maloeran | Do you have any raw numbers on adrt? |
| 22:46.52 | ``Erik | hm, *shrug* from eyeball comparisons, you have ntohing to worry about.. |
| 22:46.54 | ``Erik | not really :/ |
| 22:47.14 | ``Erik | I think I remember something about 1.2m r/s on a dual 2.4ghz xeon? |
| 22:47.40 | Maloeran | Seriously, don't under-estimate the huge blow one-ray-a-at-time tracing will deal... |
| 22:47.56 | ``Erik | I might be completely in err, I have a vague recollection of 1.2m, and I THINK that was on a certain machine... |
| 22:47.58 | Maloeran | I see. How many triangles in there? |
| 22:48.20 | ``Erik | I d'no, a few million? triagle number should be a very minor influence |
| 22:48.45 | Maloeran | Triangle count is a very minor difference as long as I can use my ray sources to exploit locality... Grah :) |
| 22:49.30 | ``Erik | like I said... we'll give it a whack... if the mark isn't met, we'll look why and try to fair things up a bit :) |
| 22:49.43 | Maloeran | 1.2m is first-hit only, right? |
| 22:49.45 | ``Erik | <-- ain't trying to jack you, just trying to get the green light with as little effort as possible |
| 22:49.53 | ``Erik | um, I think full shot? might be first hit, I don't recall |
| 22:50.08 | Maloeran | There's quite a difference between the two... :) |
| 22:50.11 | ``Erik | adrt suffers from full depth tracing as it calls a function every hit |
| 22:50.21 | ``Erik | and I'm testing full depth |
| 22:50.52 | ``Erik | (might be worth doing both... also; the 5x is awfully vague...) |
| 22:50.56 | Maloeran | I call a function per "batch" of hits too, so that the user can prematurely cancel traversal |
| 22:51.05 | ``Erik | in fact, of that entire contract, the 5x one is the one that irks me the most O:-) |
| 22:51.44 | Maloeran | I really think it should be 5x times faster to solve specific problems, presented in the optimal manner for both engines |
| 22:52.00 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, ohloh is pretty nifty .. i've been working lightly with them to fix some of their processing problems -- our stats are outright wrong atm |
| 22:52.36 | brlcad | added the project a few weeks ago |
| 22:56.40 | brlcad | hm, i did account for ws commits and major moves with statcvs -- that mostly affected user 'morrison' |
| 22:57.29 | IriX64 | ahha the guardian of the "boxen" :) |
| 22:58.16 | ``Erik | collapsing pre and post results woulda been nice :) woulda put me on the first page, heh |
| 22:58.30 | brlcad | not normalized, here is a snapshot of the most recent: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/cvs.html |
| 22:58.33 | ``Erik | an "aka" knob |
| 22:58.54 | ``Erik | was '83 the first year of rcs? |
| 22:59.13 | brlcad | yep |
| 22:59.31 | ``Erik | huh, bob's been hittin' it hard the last decade |
| 23:00.01 | ``Erik | see, in '04, I have both names... if those were combined, I wonder if I woulda stepped up above lee... |
| 23:00.25 | ``Erik | nice to see I'm a standing name in '03, for a whole 2.5 months heh |
| 23:00.27 | brlcad | Maloeran: of course not ;) |
| 23:00.55 | ``Erik | mal: it's about as useful as measuring programmer expertise by LOC |
| 23:01.15 | IriX64 | 48? how does the left hand ahhhh never mind ;) |
| 23:01.29 | ``Erik | one of the very few impressive things microsoft has done is try to debunk that notion in the early 80's, yet here we still use it, heh |
| 23:02.09 | Maloeran | I heard that mesuring LOC/month was common in some environments, scary |
| 23:02.41 | ``Erik | what's keeping you, irix? hop to, submit patches, one of us will review it and either bounce it back with feedback or apply it and shove your name in the contributors file |
| 23:03.03 | ``Erik | if you don't know where to start, look at the bugs and feature request trackers on sf... grab one owned by 'nobody' |
| 23:03.16 | IriX64 | for(i=1;toinfinity;i++) printf("Line 1 %d\n",i); |
| 23:03.32 | ``Erik | 10 print "Hi" |
| 23:03.34 | ``Erik | 20 goto 10 |
| 23:03.36 | Maloeran | I also read ( from efnet's #c ) that the average productivity was 300-500 lines of code per month, which is even scarier |
| 23:03.36 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:03.49 | IriX64 | mines generating LOC ;) |
| 23:04.02 | ``Erik | bear in mind, mal, the average environment is rife with meetings, training, email, and other bullshit |
| 23:04.20 | ``Erik | 40 hours a work week, you might get 5-10 hours of productive code time |
| 23:04.27 | Maloeran | Ouch :) |
| 23:05.18 | ``Erik | (tht's after taking the cut for ramp-up and ramp-down from interruptions as well as 'dain bread because I'm here during specified hours') |
| 23:06.04 | brlcad | Maloeran: there was a study done several months back that showed, on average across the entire industry that programmers only generate about 2000 lines of maintainable/sustainable code per year |
| 23:07.51 | brlcad | a dev might be able to generate 2000 in a given month, but it's mostly useless/unmaintainable and is either thrown away or becomes obsolete or is rewritten |
| 23:07.52 | Maloeran | This is terrifying. Considering this is an average and some must do 10 times that, there are a lot of bad programmers roaming around |
| 23:08.07 | ``Erik | every time I crank up an editor on some code, put my feet up and get ready to code, SOMEONE walks into my office with a stupid question or something |
| 23:08.11 | ``Erik | actually |
| 23:08.29 | ``Erik | it happens about when I'm ready to write code, after I remember all of what I was doing last |
| 23:09.06 | ``Erik | (heh, and I do it to brlcad allllll the time) |
| 23:09.33 | brlcad | the report more showed that most code is useless from a long-term perspective -- how useful is most of the code you've written today going to be unmodified 10 years from now sorts of implications |
| 23:09.46 | Maloeran | Ah yes, 10 years is a long time |
| 23:10.03 | brlcad | it's easy to churn out tons of code, just like it's easy to write long crappy essays ones whole life |
| 23:10.09 | Maloeran | I don't think my SSE code will survive that long, but I hope the rest is mostly good |
| 23:10.33 | brlcad | i think you'll be survived about even "the rest" if you divert onto different projects |
| 23:10.36 | ``Erik | hm, 2 (sorta 3) with over 20 years legacy |
| 23:10.58 | brlcad | i've revisited code after 10-15 years only to see it all totally alien |
| 23:11.09 | brlcad | code i've written that is |
| 23:11.15 | Maloeran | Ahah, neat |
| 23:11.18 | ``Erik | heh, me too |
| 23:11.25 | Maloeran | Frankly, I don't remember my code too well either after a couple years |
| 23:11.33 | brlcad | some of it I grok'd right away.. but a lot of it not so well |
| 23:11.43 | ``Erik | code from even 10 years ago makes me go "wtf was I thinking?" |
| 23:12.08 | brlcad | wasn't until probably a good decade that a good balance of comments, structure, and conventions settled down |
| 23:12.22 | ``Erik | I hope that means I've drastically improved... and I hope in 10 years, I look at todays code and say the same thing, otherwise I'm not improving... *cough* |
| 23:12.31 | brlcad | exactly |
| 23:12.36 | Maloeran | In fact, barely a few months later, when trying to document the graph preparation code... I had to pause for 30 minutes to understand how some weird pass worked |
| 23:12.46 | ``Erik | I'd be scared to see the code I wrote 20 yrs ago, heh |
| 23:13.09 | brlcad | heh, if that happens in just a couple months.. you've got a ways to go :) |
| 23:14.02 | Maloeran | Ah the code isn't bad :), it's just both complex and optimized |
| 23:14.09 | ``Erik | I lost all my code from '83 to '96 :( |
| 23:14.26 | ``Erik | but it was all cbm stuff |
| 23:14.38 | brlcad | Maloeran: complexity and documentation are two factors on code, not just functionality |
| 23:15.08 | ``Erik | 'unmaintable' becomes 'obsolete' very very fast |
| 23:15.15 | ``Erik | like, 2 days after it's "done" |
| 23:15.41 | brlcad | readability, maintainability, optimization clarity (sometimes semi-contradictory), complexity/simplicity, quantity, hmm.. |
| 23:15.45 | ``Erik | unmainainable |
| 23:16.14 | ``Erik | maintainability infers readability and clarity :D |
| 23:16.24 | Maloeran | Yes yes, I'm complete writing the documentation... when I read about how to generate "summaries", several paragraphs not attached to functions or files in Doxygen |
| 23:16.38 | Maloeran | I'll* complete |
| 23:16.57 | brlcad | ``Erik: to an extent.. maintainability has other factors including familiarity, language choices, patterns/paradigms, etc |
| 23:18.11 | Maloeran | Any keyword to look up on how to generate overviews, summaries, general explanations in Doxygen? |
| 23:19.16 | ``Erik | ah, if only it were all in scheme *sigh* |
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| 01:28.47 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/media/billies-dad.mov |
| 01:32.04 | brlcad | heh.. "At times I think libtool's motto should be "libtool - given what a pain |
| 01:32.06 | brlcad | it is, just imagine how bad the alternatives must be."" |
| 03:36.51 | brlcad | nifty, actually process all of the log message comments and collapse duplicates now so you can get a count of actual commit changesets |
| 03:36.54 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/cvs.html |
| 03:39.00 | brlcad | so, for e.g., ws and copyright changes across all directories actually just get counted as 1 change now instead of 500 |
| 03:40.19 | IriX64 | keeping score ;) |
| 03:41.19 | brlcad | and looks like i'm just about halfway to mike .. which is about right.. he's got 17 years, I only have about 8 :) |
| 03:41.33 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:41.38 | brlcad | IriX64: fun useless but interesting statistics ;) |
| 03:42.02 | IriX64 | very you should get royalties on each submission :) |
| 03:44.05 | brlcad | I do .. just in the form of percentage sales. *ahem* ;) |
| 03:44.31 | IriX64 | military nickels no doubt :) |
| 03:44.38 | Maloeran | Any way to see the count of lines of code? I'm just curious |
| 03:44.43 | brlcad | (xx% of $0.0 in sales is $0.0 royalties ;) |
| 03:45.01 | brlcad | Maloeran: yes, you have a latest checkout handy? |
| 03:45.24 | Maloeran | Not exactly "latest", but I can do that |
| 03:45.44 | brlcad | something updated within the past couple weeks should do |
| 03:45.49 | brlcad | run: sh/enumerate.sh |
| 03:45.51 | Maloeran | Oh, I mean the count of lines in the cvs commits, not the total count from the current source |
| 03:45.56 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:47.22 | brlcad | that would be mildly more tricky to process and tabulate all the + - counts .. and would be heavily skewed by ws, headers/footers, and copyright changes |
| 03:47.47 | Maloeran | Of course so. As I said, it's mere curiousity |
| 03:47.52 | brlcad | would really need to go file by file, do a cvs diff -b -B between versions and get a running count |
| 03:48.12 | brlcad | per author, per file.. yeesh |
| 03:48.30 | brlcad | (which is what ohloh actually does to detect change counts) |
| 03:49.42 | Maloeran | I see... All right, seems troublesome |
| 03:50.07 | Maloeran | From the statistics, I gather that Prasad left the channel as well as the project |
| 03:52.46 | brlcad | ~seen pra5ad |
| 03:53.24 | ibot | pra5ad <n=pra5ad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 88d 11h 2m 44s ago, saying: 'ah'. |
| 03:53.51 | brlcad | yeah, he was going to hang around, but he's been starting a new job, new distractions |
| 03:54.07 | brlcad | plus he's kinda lazy when it comes to coding in his spare time :) |
| 03:55.30 | Maloeran | :) Ah well, I sometimes wonder what happened to the old dream of building raytracing hardware |
| 03:55.44 | Maloeran | An old dream of Justin, Erik and I... but the interest hasn't survived very long |
| 05:21.24 | brlcad | hmm, in two years, I'll jump into the top 5 |
| 05:27.31 | Maloeran | I'm sure if you put a script in a loop for just one night... |
| 05:28.00 | brlcad | it's easily doable.. I just don't want to write that script :) |
| 05:28.11 | Maloeran | Oh? :) |
| 05:28.13 | brlcad | easy != quick |
| 05:29.05 | brlcad | maybe later when the stats are integrated into the website |
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| 08:23.54 | clock_ | brlcad: rtedge produces deformed lines, you can see it many times at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d, and I have just bugreported it. |
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| 15:55.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: recursive dep install target |
| 16:47.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: install-depends should install the dependancies, not just make them... oops. |
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| 03:22.11 | Maloeran | Erik or brlcad, are you there? I could use your knowledge of non-Linux platforms |
| 03:23.14 | Maloeran | Basically, I would like to solve the problem of running on NUMA platforms. Having a copy of the datasets into each memory bank, and having specific threads on specific cores working on each copy is something that can be done on Linux |
| 03:24.26 | Maloeran | Since that might be tricky to support all platforms this way, I was thinking about a more general way... Each die, each chunk of cores accessing the same memory bank, could have its own process running ; the processes working together by distributed processing |
| 03:25.22 | Maloeran | Are other platforms clever enough to allocate memory into the memory bank specific to the processor a process is running on? Are they bright enough to put all the threads of the process on the cores of the same die? |
| 03:25.57 | Maloeran | That really would be a simple solution. The processes can synchronize each other by shared memory to avoid most of the networking overhead |
| 03:29.28 | ``Erik | not always |
| 03:29.44 | Maloeran | Can it be manually forced? |
| 03:29.51 | ``Erik | fbsd doesn't seem to do bank association on amd64 from dorking around... no way to force it |
| 03:30.00 | Maloeran | I think that's far less trouble than having NUMA-aware built in ; just having a process per memory bank |
| 03:30.05 | Maloeran | Ouch! |
| 03:30.32 | ``Erik | and if you have one hard running thread hard running on a dual proc mac, it'll aggressively rotate it between procs to keep temps even |
| 03:30.43 | Maloeran | This is terrible |
| 03:30.53 | ``Erik | *shrug* it's the way things go |
| 03:31.22 | ``Erik | (the bsd thing needs to be fixed... if I had free time, I'd get elbow deep into the allocator and scheduler and make it happen... but time is a rare commodity) |
| 03:31.58 | Maloeran | Do you have any thought about numa-aware code within a single process, storing multiple copies of the dataset, or just having multiple synchronized processes? |
| 03:32.32 | ``Erik | that all depends on if there's enough ram *shrug* |
| 03:32.32 | Maloeran | The second way seems easier to get to work on different OSes, if the OSes themselves are numa-aware |
| 03:32.40 | Maloeran | Right, of coures |
| 03:32.44 | Maloeran | course, even |
| 03:35.22 | Maloeran | I'm surprised that, even manually, one can't force threads on cores and allocation in banks... That's probably part of the explanation on why clusters don't run BSD |
| 03:37.29 | brlcad | a lot of similar concepts to numa |
| 03:38.01 | brlcad | additional reading with details on threading: http://www-941.ibm.com/collaboration/wiki/display/WikiPtype/POWER5+Architecture |
| 03:38.34 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad, seems similar to the Opteron docs I read at first glance |
| 03:39.31 | Maloeran | I'm mostly wondering about how to solve the software aspect of the problem |
| 03:41.01 | brlcad | eh, devil the in details .. exceptionally high-end server market, no commodity aspects |
| 03:41.15 | brlcad | the documents go into software implications |
| 03:41.23 | Maloeran | Right, great |
| 03:41.48 | brlcad | in particular the latter that details execution, threading, and memory management |
| 03:42.25 | brlcad | could probably get an account on an sp4 to play with |
| 03:42.47 | Maloeran | Wouldn't that be Power5-OSX specific? It's awfully specific to the OS, there's no standard for NUMA management |
| 03:43.26 | brlcad | os x doesn't run on power5 |
| 03:43.45 | Maloeran | MacOS9 then :), I really didn't follow that line of software |
| 03:44.06 | brlcad | the power series are what are used by the high-end supercomputers |
| 03:44.21 | brlcad | they have no relation to apple/mac |
| 03:45.05 | Maloeran | Oh. Great |
| 03:46.24 | brlcad | the G4 and G5 have architecture aspects similar to the power series, and some have suggested that the G5 is effectively the Power3 or Power4 with some of the high-end supercomputing facilities removed (data management, simultaneous core execution, larger L1/L2/L3 memories, etc, etc) |
| 03:47.02 | Maloeran | Thanks, that clears things up |
| 03:47.28 | ``Erik | 'cept the g[45] series have altivec, ibm/ppc doesn't |
| 03:47.44 | ``Erik | 'cluster' is an awfully broad term o.O |
| 03:47.57 | Maloeran | Exactly :) |
| 03:48.16 | ``Erik | that's like saying you want to learn how to write assembly for computers... |
| 03:49.11 | Maloeran | The comparison is valid ; learning assembly for the main architectures, or learning scalable software for the main cluster architectures |
| 03:51.33 | brlcad | valid, but potentially vary misleading -- comparing athlon/G5/P4/whatever to the Power architecture is sort of like comparing the GForce 2 to the Quaddro FX .. there are correlations, but one is the exceptional high-end with various features that can be leveraged for extra order(s) performance |
| 03:54.53 | ``Erik | heh, my analogy was to point out how vague the notion of mals statement was, as there are many radically different archs... as there are cluster technologies *shrug* |
| 03:55.32 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, the power line displaced the mips line, its immediate ancestor.. :D |
| 03:56.04 | brlcad | yeah, and have been king ever since.. for what? a decade now? |
| 03:56.26 | brlcad | since at least 1998 iirc |
| 03:56.48 | Maloeran | Erik, and I'm interested in learning scalable programming for the main ones |
| 03:56.48 | ``Erik | the unf/$ leans more towards opterons, though *shrug* |
| 03:56.52 | brlcad | opteron has certainly been on the rise with the revival of cray |
| 03:57.10 | ``Erik | some amusing quotes from seymour |
| 03:58.08 | Maloeran | NUMA-aware threading code isn't too much trouble on Linux, but as for some other OSes.. |
| 03:58.08 | ``Erik | 'numa' is a pretty broad category |
| 03:58.13 | Maloeran | Assigning threads to memory banks is a fairly simple concept |
| 03:58.47 | ``Erik | the simplest of forms and provided the OS exposes it, sure *shrug* |
| 03:59.01 | brlcad | at the top 500 level, it rarely has to do with $$.. it's reliability and performance first followed by probably support and installation impact |
| 03:59.35 | brlcad | the technology is usually second to just computing things as fast as possible |
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| 05:30.12 | Maloeran | This is lovely. |
| 05:30.16 | Maloeran | lin-lwp.c:1729: internal-error: kill_wait_callback: Assertion `pid == -1 && errno == ECHILD' failed. A problem internal to GDB has been detected, |
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| 14:13.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:14.39 | archivist | "must try harder" 2 out of 10 |
| 14:18.27 | ``Erik | mal's progress report, as neutered and de-tech'd by a couple layers of mgmt types... :) |
| 16:27.53 | *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 16:27.53 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad | |
| 16:32.26 | Maloeran | Cool Erik, can I see that? :) |
| 16:32.38 | Maloeran | Oh, you tried to send on Efnet alerady |
| 16:32.41 | Maloeran | already, too |
| 16:33.01 | Maloeran | Ah no, it was the wrapping framework headers |
| 18:10.48 | ``Erik | a little part, nothing interesting yet... |
| 18:11.14 | ``Erik | MAYBE I'll be able to get you the rest this week |
| 18:11.49 | Maloeran | Wee, one ray at a time. All right, thanks |
| 18:15.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: report the ident footer (which includes the version of this script now) with --version output |
| 18:29.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: check for autoreconf before autoconv/automake/libtool |
| 18:35.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: improve adrt's integration, ensure compilation/execution works reliably cross-platform -- get latest changes being used by muves teams to libtie. add update of tcl/tk since that is currently going on. |
| 18:54.54 | ``Erik | adrt will be equally crippled, dude *shrug* and if we don't get the numbers we want, we'll fix things up better |
| 19:04.21 | Maloeran | ADRT was not written to exploit : SSE packed tracing, ray coherency, ray locality |
| 19:04.37 | Maloeran | So I believe RF will be far more crippled, but we'll see |
| 19:25.19 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): start redoing the TCP server interface to actualy work, and not suck. |
| 20:07.27 | IriX64 | make install |
| 20:07.35 | IriX64 | sorry :( |
| 20:10.30 | IriX64 | wonder if this thing actually runs. |
| 20:11.27 | IriX64 | btw if you don't use --prefix, the build puts the html dir in your root dir. |
| 20:12.17 | IriX64 | configure reports awf and brlman to have an undefined variable called datarootdir. |
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| 20:51.28 | brlcad | IriX64: what platform/shell has that behavior? |
| 20:51.39 | IriX64 | bash |
| 20:51.57 | brlcad | under which OS? |
| 20:52.03 | IriX64 | cygwin |
| 20:52.06 | brlcad | hmm |
| 20:52.30 | brlcad | grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/Makefile |
| 20:52.36 | brlcad | what does that output? |
| 20:52.37 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:53.29 | IriX64 | just sitting there. |
| 20:53.48 | brlcad | er |
| 20:54.03 | brlcad | you did type the doc/html/Makefile part, yes? |
| 20:54.09 | IriX64 | goof (meaning me just a sec.) |
| 20:54.28 | brlcad | that should be run from the directory that has configure |
| 20:54.44 | IriX64 | no such file or directory. |
| 20:54.59 | brlcad | "that should be run from the directory that has configure" |
| 20:55.11 | IriX64 | it is |
| 20:55.36 | brlcad | ls doc/html |
| 20:56.00 | brlcad | [morrison@hole (Tue Feb 13 15:55:26) ~/brlcad]$ ls doc/html |
| 20:56.01 | brlcad | CVS Makefile Makefile.am Makefile.in ReleaseNotes manuals |
| 20:56.19 | IriX64 | ls doc/htmlmake file.am .in releasenotes and manual. |
| 20:56.57 | brlcad | how come you don't have a Makefile ? did you run make distclean or something? |
| 20:57.07 | IriX64 | yep |
| 20:57.20 | brlcad | that's kinda important to tell me ;) |
| 20:57.30 | IriX64 | whup apologies :) |
| 20:57.51 | brlcad | grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/Makefile.in |
| 20:58.15 | brlcad | and .. grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in |
| 20:58.28 | brlcad | or just the latter even |
| 20:58.38 | brlcad | should be two lines |
| 20:58.38 | brlcad | BRLCAD_DATA = @BRLCAD_DATA@ |
| 20:58.39 | brlcad | htmldocsdir = $(BRLCAD_DATA)/html/manuals |
| 20:58.54 | brlcad | do you see something different? |
| 20:59.01 | IriX64 | BRLCAD_DATA = @BRLCAD_DATA@ |
| 20:59.17 | IriX64 | only one line |
| 20:59.30 | brlcad | in which file |
| 20:59.37 | IriX64 | .in |
| 20:59.40 | brlcad | doc/html will be just one line |
| 20:59.47 | brlcad | doc/html/manuals should have two |
| 21:00.23 | IriX64 | has none. |
| 21:00.51 | brlcad | huh? you ran: grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in |
| 21:00.55 | brlcad | and it reported no lines? |
| 21:01.02 | IriX64 | reported one line. |
| 21:01.14 | brlcad | read carefully, you're telling me two things |
| 21:01.36 | brlcad | grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in <-- note the manuals part |
| 21:01.58 | IriX64 | my mistake both only have one line. |
| 21:02.15 | IriX64 | not used to grep man ;) |
| 21:02.30 | brlcad | grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.am outputs what? |
| 21:03.42 | IriX64 | htmldocsdir = $(BRLCAD_DATA)/html/manuals |
| 21:04.23 | brlcad | then "grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in" cannot have only one line ... |
| 21:04.45 | brlcad | s/cannot/really should not/ |
| 21:05.05 | IriX64 | specifying --prefix is a workaround. |
| 21:05.42 | brlcad | i got that much, trying to figure why something that basic would fail |
| 21:06.40 | brlcad | when it "puts it in the root" .. what dir does it create and where? |
| 21:06.58 | IriX64 | html in the root dir of the system. |
| 21:07.22 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:07.29 | brlcad | hmmm.. maybe if... |
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| 21:08.27 | IriX64 | just went by again, i'm configuring. |
| 21:09.35 | brlcad | grep usr/brlcad configure |
| 21:09.59 | brlcad | is that this? ac_default_prefix=/usr/brlcad |
| 21:10.24 | IriX64 | ac_default_prefix=/usr/brlcad |
| 21:11.13 | IriX64 | shall i paste the warning? |
| 21:11.17 | brlcad | orsure |
| 21:11.33 | IriX64 | config.status: WARNING: src/brlman/awf contains a reference to the variable `dat |
| 21:11.33 | IriX64 | arootdir' |
| 21:11.33 | IriX64 | which seems to be undefined. Please make sure it is defined. |
| 21:11.33 | IriX64 | config.status: creating src/brlman/brlman |
| 21:11.33 | IriX64 | config.status: WARNING: src/brlman/brlman contains a reference to the variable ` |
| 21:11.36 | IriX64 | datarootdir' |
| 21:11.38 | IriX64 | which seems to be undefined. Please make sure it is defined. |
| 21:13.04 | brlcad | can you pastebin or send me your awf or brlman ? |
| 21:13.52 | IriX64 | brlman? brlman.1? or brlman.in? |
| 21:14.13 | brlcad | brlman |
| 21:14.23 | IriX64 | how do i deliver it to you? |
| 21:14.32 | brlcad | what works for you? |
| 21:14.46 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 21:14.55 | ibot | pastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 21:14.55 | brlcad | would be the most convenient |
| 21:14.55 | IriX64 | dunno haven't transfreed files in s *long time :) |
| 21:15.55 | brlcad | if you go to one of those three urls, you can paste the contents of brlman |
| 21:16.00 | brlcad | or awf |
| 21:17.09 | IriX64 | pastebin.ca has it. |
| 21:17.31 | brlcad | heh, you're supposed to provide me that url it tells you |
| 21:17.40 | IriX64 | arrgh. |
| 21:18.22 | brlcad | after you hit submit post |
| 21:18.39 | brlcad | you're not one of the recent ones.. doesn't look like you posted it yet |
| 21:19.19 | IriX64 | just posted it again. |
| 21:19.49 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/354242 |
| 21:20.14 | brlcad | there we go.. that's better :) |
| 21:20.21 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:21.05 | IriX64 | bbiab nature yells :) |
| 21:21.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:21.47 | brlcad | peculiar.. your BRLCAD_DATA is getting set to ${datarootdir} |
| 21:21.50 | ``Erik | paste.lisp.org is cooler, and has a 'report' bot on this network... O:-) |
| 21:24.02 | brlcad | IriX64: grep datadir=\' configure |
| 21:32.18 | brlcad | IriX64: grep BRLCAD include/brlcad_config.h |
| 21:32.19 | IriX64 | ${datarootdir} |
| 21:32.34 | brlcad | yeah, that's wonky.. |
| 21:32.48 | IriX64 | not your problem ? |
| 21:33.00 | brlcad | I think I can compensate for it |
| 21:33.04 | brlcad | what's: grep BRLCAD include/brlcad_config.h |
| 21:34.15 | IriX64 | $ grep BRLCAD include/brlcad_config.h |
| 21:34.15 | IriX64 | #define BRLCAD_DATA "${datarootdir}" |
| 21:34.16 | IriX64 | #define BRLCAD_ROOT "/usr/solariscad" |
| 21:34.19 | IriX64 | #define BRLCAD_VERSION "7.8.4" |
| 21:35.24 | brlcad | eek |
| 21:35.32 | brlcad | good to know, that's a separate problem |
| 21:35.38 | IriX64 | $... ? |
| 21:36.35 | IriX64 | autoconf? |
| 21:36.47 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:36.57 | IriX64 | version 2.6 |
| 21:37.50 | brlcad | the autoconf you're using with cygwin is setting datadir to a variable that must be evaluated else you end up with variable turds like you're seeing |
| 21:38.18 | IriX64 | ill get me a new autoconf or fix this one, i have source. |
| 21:38.23 | brlcad | not so much a bug on their part but inconsistent behavior (they don't do that elsewhere afaihs) that we'll need to compensate for |
| 21:38.29 | brlcad | 2.6 doesn't sound right |
| 21:38.42 | IriX64 | 2.60 |
| 21:38.46 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:38.56 | brlcad | okay, that could/would be why |
| 21:39.04 | brlcad | that's a newer (protocol-breaking) version |
| 21:39.17 | IriX64 | thanks for this one i set prefix=solariscad. |
| 21:39.35 | brlcad | this should fix it |
| 21:39.49 | IriX64 | does already tested it. |
| 21:40.29 | brlcad | heh, no.. i mean for noticing the problem.. I have a fix here going in |
| 21:40.38 | IriX64 | oh sorry. |
| 21:40.41 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:44.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 21:44.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compensate for an autoconf inconsistency issue where apparently newer 2.60+ |
| 21:44.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: autoconf is setting datadir to datarootdir as a default, causing a need to |
| 21:44.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: evaluate datadir before using it with things like AC_DEFINE and AC_SUBST values. |
| 21:44.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: do an explicit eval echo like is done for the summary printing. |
| 21:44.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: thanks to IriX64 for noticing the problem and helping pinpoint the cause. the problem affected most BRLCAD_DATA installation paths as well as awf and brlman (which use BRLCAD_DATA). |
| 21:48.48 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 21:51.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: reorganize so the eval expansion happens only once. |
| 22:32.23 | IriX64 | question.. is there some issue I don't know about that affects shared library builds? every time I try to build shared libraries, I get undefined references. |
| 22:36.17 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): get the TCP server class to read data and call it's listeners. |
| 23:02.39 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202025057.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 23:43.56 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): |
| 23:43.56 | CIA-5 | libIRC: data send methods for server connected peers. |
| 23:43.56 | CIA-5 | libIRC: disonection functions for server connected peers. |
| 23:43.56 | CIA-5 | libIRC: disconection notification for servers. |
| 23:51.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 23:51.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: there does seem to be a ray-trace consistency failure in the solids.sh |
| 23:51.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: regression test case where it fails on Mac OS X with one pixel exhibiting an |
| 23:51.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: off-by-many error on the edge of the middle ARB8. this only seems to occur when |
| 23:51.51 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: using an optimized -O3 compile (and using -fno-unsafe-math-optimizations seems |
| 23:51.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to make no difference) possibly indicating a floating point/tolerance issue that |
| 23:51.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: needs to be accounted for so that results are exactly repeatable regardless. |
| 23:55.36 | Maloeran | Exactly repeatable? Picky :) |
| 23:56.09 | Maloeran | The compiler could just be shuffling instructions around, meaning the ray that was hitting the primitive no longuer does |
| 23:58.06 | ``Erik | which means the optimizer broke it, and that's important to know... |
| 23:59.41 | Maloeran | Optimizers shuffle instructions around when it leads to the "same" result, mathematically speaking |
| 00:01.05 | Maloeran | Does the OSX bug occur on ia32 using the x87 instruction set? FPU stack conversions to and from 80 bits will cause differences |
| 00:10.05 | IriX64 | may i ask a question re shared libs thing? |
| 00:10.19 | brlcad | that is very much related to the issue, but is exactly the sort of problems that I was referring to that are predominantly accounted for now |
| 00:10.39 | IriX64 | the autoconf thing then? |
| 00:11.07 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 00:11.14 | ibot | hmm... ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 00:11.14 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:11.22 | brlcad | bah |
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| 00:12.09 | IriX64 | power bump grrr.... :) |
| 00:12.24 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/354478 |
| 00:12.40 | IriX64 | look at the last few lines. |
| 00:12.55 | IriX64 | libpng.so.1 does not exist here. |
| 00:13.02 | brlcad | Maloeran: the point is that in pretty much all of the cases, the differences and misses can be accounted for -- and librt works extensively to make sure that results are repeatable as it can't be emphasized as to the importance that has with simulation studies |
| 00:14.13 | brlcad | so missing just one pixel in a large render on an edge case .. is actually considered a significant BUG that has to be addressed .. not just a compiler behavior to be accepted -- they can (and should) be accounted for, or at least thoroughly understood as to what the *exact* cause is |
| 00:15.01 | brlcad | to date (and that date being 20+ years), there's not been a case of hardware/compiler goo that could not be accounted for by some means |
| 00:16.18 | brlcad | IriX64: at a glance, looks like a libtool bug .. but there's not much information to go with |
| 00:16.28 | brlcad | all the error indicates is that ld failed for some unknown reason |
| 00:17.18 | brlcad | would have to turn up gcc's verbosity and compile by hand to see what happened |
| 00:17.55 | brlcad | alternatively, you could install png via usual cygwin means, and let configure auto-detect it so it doesn't try to build the bundled libpng |
| 00:18.27 | Maloeran | brlcad, if we suppose a ray is hitting right on the edge of a triangle, any little difference caused by the compiler may swap the result ; if it hits or it doesn't |
| 00:18.58 | Maloeran | And you know that already... I guess it must just be explained, but the compiler will cause that kind of "artefacts" |
| 00:19.37 | Twingy | artifacts |
| 00:24.52 | IriX64 | brlcad: ty |
| 01:38.35 | brlcad | Maloeran: of course that can happen -- the issue is more knowing exactly when it happens and being sure that is what is really happening when a difference is encountered |
| 01:39.36 | brlcad | over the years, it's often been the case that there was either a bug in the hardware, or a bug in system routines (e.g. sqrt) that would have gone unnoticed had it all been assumed to be just compiler reordering |
| 01:40.34 | brlcad | even with reordering, a lot of differences can sometimes/often be accounted for -- checking for things consistently with tolerance for example, so if you're an edge case, you actually compare with tolerance considerations so it doesn't matter how it's ordered |
| 01:42.36 | brlcad | requires a lot more care and thought on the implementation, something that is rarely (never?) a concern for optical tracing, but is considerably important for simulation purposes that need to be repeatable studies or at least fully understood behavior (so it can be expected and classes of results can be observed) |
| 01:43.55 | brlcad | the CS aspects cannot overwhelm and are not more important than the engineering and scientific purposes that the codes are written for |
| 01:44.31 | dtidrow | likely less important, in fact |
| 01:45.02 | brlcad | usually extremely |
| 01:45.14 | brlcad | which is why a lot of the code is shit unfortunately too |
| 01:45.15 | dtidrow | yep |
| 01:46.15 | brlcad | though sometimes it's not too, I think you'll just find all sorts just like people ;) |
| 01:46.20 | Maloeran | Even with tolerance, it can almost be considered random exactly on the edge of the tolerance |
| 01:47.03 | Maloeran | I think the point is that the tolerance shouldn't matter. If the ray of a pixel goes directly on the edge of a triangle, it doesn't matter if the triangle is hit or not |
| 01:49.44 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): kill a connection if the listeners don't want it. |
| 01:53.04 | brlcad | that was just one example |
| 01:54.35 | brlcad | some issues can be accounted for by considering tolerance, some have nothing to do with tolerance |
| 01:55.18 | brlcad | for something like the edge case of a triangle, you could -- again, for example -- test if it's on the edge and consistently report a hit or miss |
| 01:55.45 | brlcad | whatever impact that causes on performance is secondary if it results in numerical stability |
| 01:55.46 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): give the hostmask and ip back seperately. |
| 01:56.21 | Maloeran | That triangle edge test could be subject to a bit of rounding too, but I get the idea |
| 01:57.02 | Maloeran | My raytracer sure causes a whole lot of off-by-many ; same hardware, same scene, even same compiled executable |
| 01:57.14 | brlcad | yep, but then that specifically would be a case where tolerance would give you invariant results (within the specified tolerance) |
| 01:57.27 | Maloeran | The graph is different on every run, and that clearly changes the results a tiny bit |
| 01:58.26 | brlcad | yes, and the case can be made (and has been made) that the purpose of your tracer is filling a niche where the impact and varaince is probably acceptible |
| 01:58.52 | Maloeran | All right, thanks |
| 01:59.30 | brlcad | that doesn't give a carte blanche to ignore the variances though ;) the differences will (at least initially) probably be investigated one-by-one so that they are understood |
| 02:00.26 | brlcad | (in a real analysis and with test cases, part of the production polish) |
| 02:01.26 | brlcad | I suspect the bigger issue with integrating your tracer is not going to be edge cases.. :) |
| 02:01.51 | Maloeran | Yes, quite right, unfortunately... :) |
| 02:02.47 | Maloeran | Really, I think the API is efficient, clean, flexible and complete. Because of that, it of course isn't "simple" |
| 02:02.47 | brlcad | aside from politics and other issues, it's going to be issues caused from your tracer's fundamental approach of not retaining knowledge of solid geometry |
| 02:03.04 | Maloeran | Oh. I assumed it was the interface |
| 02:03.09 | brlcad | inside out issues, problems building intersection segments, etc |
| 02:03.42 | Maloeran | Inside-out issues can be cleanly handled *if* the interface is used as such with ray sources |
| 02:04.13 | brlcad | you're still thinking at the CS level -- the interface is somewhat irrelevant other than impacting performance |
| 02:04.45 | Maloeran | I'm saying that if the native interface is used, handling intersection segments and inside-out issues will not be a problem |
| 02:05.07 | Maloeran | If the API is butchered to be squeezed into another interface, it will be a problem |
| 02:05.08 | brlcad | I'm saying, I bet it will be regardless of the interface ;) |
| 02:05.24 | Maloeran | It's one of the things ray sources are meant to solve |
| 02:06.00 | brlcad | handling of bad geometry will be another problem, and overall robustness of your code I suspect |
| 02:06.06 | brlcad | but that's all tbd |
| 02:07.43 | brlcad | do you retain manifolds and topological structure? other than basic neighbor connectivity that is |
| 02:08.12 | Maloeran | I don't even retain neighbor connectivity :) |
| 02:08.33 | brlcad | thought so.. don't think you're import format even supports the concept of a shared edge iirc |
| 02:09.06 | brlcad | will be interesting to see what sort of results it has |
| 02:09.12 | Maloeran | Getting duplicate hits on the edges of connected triangles is perfectly normal, and that can be easily and flawlessly corrected with properly oriented meshes |
| 02:10.55 | brlcad | for a single part, I think that can be easily proven -- for arbitrary collections of parts, not so easy (regions perfectly aligned to other regions, embedded in other regions, lots of various edge cases) |
| 02:11.36 | brlcad | iirc, it's an np-complete problem even if you DO have the toplogical information |
| 02:12.33 | Maloeran | Ah yes, you could get two alternate false hits in a row, and it wouldn't be able to correct from the oriented mesh information |
| 02:12.39 | Maloeran | It's just terribly unlikely though |
| 02:12.45 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:12.53 | brlcad | it happens all the time :) |
| 02:13.09 | Maloeran | Two consecutive alternate false hits? Gez :) |
| 02:13.29 | Maloeran | Perhaps we don't mean exactly the same thing, but it's probably like one in a billion |
| 02:13.45 | brlcad | mostly caused by floating point math issues, but yeah, it happens |
| 02:14.11 | Maloeran | I think I would need to make a drawing about this special case |
| 02:16.25 | brlcad | I think I know the case, its one of several actually where the segment building goes all out of whack and you basically have to flip a coin |
| 02:17.04 | brlcad | Twingy spent more time that I bet he cared to dealing with getting the segment building to handle a couple of those cases similar to librt |
| 02:17.46 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/error.png |
| 02:17.51 | brlcad | http://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/02/largest-drain-hole-ever.html |
| 02:18.14 | Maloeran | Assuming all triangles are properly oriented, the code "knows" which sides of the triangles point out and in |
| 02:18.34 | brlcad | oh yeah, that case will come up.. a lot |
| 02:18.49 | Maloeran | The ray in red will enter at A and exit at B, two consecutive false hits with alternate sides |
| 02:18.59 | Maloeran | Really? It doesn't seem very likely to me |
| 02:19.25 | Maloeran | The triangles overlap each other just barely enough to cover the numerical imprecision of the ray-triangle intersection code |
| 02:20.17 | Maloeran | If the two false hits aren't facing in/out exactly, the code can figure it out, two consecutive "in" of course means to ignore the first |
| 02:21.38 | brlcad | yeah, there are lots of similar sorts of concave compartments, structures, and parts where there will be potential for a ray to hit that condition from some viewing perspective |
| 02:22.20 | Maloeran | Right, but it's really not likely to happen |
| 02:23.24 | brlcad | that depends entirely on the view and the geometry of course |
| 02:23.55 | brlcad | considering billions of rays are generally fired for a simulation, one in a billion means it'll likely be encountered a few hundred times causing .. who knows |
| 02:24.00 | brlcad | may matter, may not |
| 02:24.30 | Maloeran | *nods* I'm hoping one per billion rays won't matter too much... |
| 02:25.17 | brlcad | hehe, that's a case where scientifically it *might* not matter (it's TBD) .. but politically, it might ;-) |
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| 03:15.47 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): get the IRC server class listening and calling methods for events. |
| 03:17.36 | Maloeran | An IRC server class, in BRL-CAD? |
| 03:18.00 | Maloeran | Unexpected, amusing |
| 05:22.46 | brlcad | Maloeran: no, not in brl-cad |
| 05:23.11 | brlcad | it's a completely separate project that I worked on with jeff a couple years ago, and dabble with from time to time |
| 05:23.17 | brlcad | libIRC |
| 05:23.36 | louipc | what's that written in? |
| 05:24.19 | brlcad | C++ |
| 05:25.04 | brlcad | it has/had C callbacks at one point, don't remember where we left off with them |
| 05:30.21 | brlcad | it has a client and server interface, you can set up one or the other .. ane jeff seems to be refactoring some bits today for something he's working on |
| 05:30.49 | louipc | It reminds me of something similar done in TCL |
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| 09:32.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.1: add initial manual page for pixcmp that includes the variou newly being added options (-l -i -s) along with details on return codes and example use. |
| 09:33.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: include the new pixcmp.1 manual page |
| 09:38.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: |
| 09:38.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: major rewrite, add support for -s, -l, and -i options for silent, verbose output |
| 09:38.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: (ala cmp's -l option), and support for skipping input. make the return/error |
| 09:38.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: codes more uniform as well as more detail on the usage. still need to actually |
| 09:38.26 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add the print statement for -l, but everything else should be done. basic |
| 09:38.28 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: operation and previous use remains unaffected. |
| 09:42.12 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added support to pixcmp for -s, -l, and -i options for silent, verbose output, and support for skipping input making the interface more similar to cmp. also note the addition of a new manual page for pixcmp too. |
| 13:17.54 | Twingy | hrm |
| 13:18.00 | Twingy | icy |
| 14:11.06 | ``Erik | indeed, I'm not going to the office today |
| 14:52.19 | brlcad | hrmph, no connection to cad |
| 15:20.58 | brlcad | well allrighty then.. that plan didn't work |
| 15:31.32 | ``Erik | ? car iced over? |
| 15:41.53 | brlcad | yup |
| 15:42.16 | brlcad | and my scraper is sitting in front of my desk |
| 15:52.27 | ``Erik | lee was in the office and shut down machines, they had a long power outage |
| 15:52.53 | ``Erik | <-- was just on the phone with wendy, she'll try to find someone to light some of them up |
| 15:58.26 | brlcad | cad came back up |
| 15:58.39 | brlcad | and has no downtime, so probably just a switch somewhere |
| 15:59.16 | brlcad | the x twins are probably lee's doing |
| 16:01.25 | ``Erik | ... fuck.... |
| 16:03.40 | ``Erik | brlcad, think you could tar up ~/.cvs/devel/rtcmp and shoot it to me? |
| 16:05.04 | ``Erik | (or ~/src/rtcmp) |
| 16:07.46 | Twingy | use hot water |
| 16:28.13 | Twingy | if you have salt, hot salty water works good too |
| 16:29.00 | *** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@212.91.112.149) | |
| 16:29.22 | Twingy | if I owned your car I wouldn't drive in it either |
| 16:31.22 | louipc | I wouldn't think pouring salty water on a car is a good idea |
| 16:31.32 | archivist | having seen pics of his last crash, lock ``Erik indoors |
| 16:31.38 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:31.54 | ``Erik | back to snow out there |
| 16:35.21 | ``Erik | being the only accident of any kind that was my fault in 15 yrs, and certain mitigating circumstances, I don't think I'm doing TOO bad... I mean, I've driven on 6" of solid ice, I've gone out of control on an onramp in colorado during a major blizzard, driven through fog with like 20' visibility, ... *shrug* |
| 16:35.41 | ``Erik | I had a bout of stupid, and I'm cured of it now. otherwise, I think I'm reasonably competent behind the wheel :D |
| 16:54.23 | brlcad | ``Erik: done, in your home on .bz |
| 17:27.31 | ``Erik | heh, that means I gotta remember my passwd to .bz :D |
| 17:28.13 | ``Erik | or find a valid ssh key'd machine |
| 17:32.40 | ``Erik | teh fux, one of my g4's is pinging but not permitting ssh |
| 18:14.59 | Twingy | hah |
| 18:15.06 | Twingy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.17 | Twingy | decided to trim the new plane |
| 18:15.24 | Twingy | 3 flights, landings were almost vertical due to wind |
| 18:15.52 | Twingy | the funny thing is at 2 notches of 10 it was as fast as my trainer |
| 18:19.07 | ``Erik | where'd you fly? |
| 18:19.43 | ``Erik | too much noise to fly out your back yard, I presume... |
| 18:19.50 | ``Erik | fences, trees, houses, etc |
| 18:20.35 | Twingy | edgewood |
| 18:20.37 | Twingy | HS |
| 18:20.56 | ``Erik | ah, out at their sports fields... |
| 18:21.07 | Twingy | by the third flight I was slushing through |
| 18:21.15 | ``Erik | back in missouri, I talked to school admins, they didn' want me to fly due to the liability |
| 18:21.24 | Twingy | heh, ask me if I care :D |
| 18:21.26 | ``Erik | though they thought it was cool |
| 18:21.28 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 18:21.42 | ``Erik | <-- a bit less fast&loose about rules... |
| 18:22.02 | ``Erik | thought, oddly enough, I convinced the evil one to seriously bend a rule for me today |
| 18:22.20 | ``Erik | <-- working in his dining room O.o |
| 18:22.34 | Twingy | haha, the evil one |
| 18:22.37 | ``Erik | I mean, um, 'having a coordination meeting' |
| 18:22.41 | Twingy | Darth W |
| 18:22.45 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 18:23.02 | ``Erik | the disturbing part is that darth w sees the darth as a victem |
| 18:23.16 | ``Erik | like, lametard sw, not real s |
| 18:23.16 | ``Erik | sw |
| 18:23.32 | Twingy | yes, that does make the satire all the better :) |
| 18:23.47 | ``Erik | "where's skankbutt?" "you killed her" "nnnooooooooooocallameeting" |
| 18:24.10 | Twingy | the guys in my branch get a kick out of how many emails I get from wendy |
| 18:24.17 | ``Erik | every once a while, though, there's an omfg wtf |
| 18:24.31 | Twingy | checked my email this week, 2 from my branch, elevendy billion from wendy |
| 18:24.33 | ``Erik | hah, yeah, no shit, yesterday, I got like 40 from her out of like 60 |
| 18:24.58 | ``Erik | and a good number of the 'not from her' emails were automated status things |
| 18:25.05 | ``Erik | <-- gets 3 a day from the machines he admins |
| 18:25.33 | Twingy | there's 3 I'd like not to get from machines I don't admin |
| 18:25.35 | ``Erik | so over the 3 day weekend I enjoyed... she was still 2/3 of the volume |
| 18:25.59 | ``Erik | I don't htink you recieve any from my machines... just the list that you accidently got on, no? |
| 18:26.09 | Twingy | the x's and cad |
| 18:26.16 | ``Erik | those ain't mine |
| 18:26.18 | Twingy | root@ |
| 18:26.22 | Twingy | don't want those |
| 18:26.24 | ``Erik | but I'll look into removing you from that list if it's in my power |
| 18:26.28 | ``Erik | tomorrie |
| 18:26.29 | Twingy | hooray |
| 18:26.39 | Twingy | three less delete buttons to press |
| 18:26.49 | ``Erik | using web mail? |
| 18:27.03 | ``Erik | <-- has the winderz box, but mostly uses the web mail at wizmer |
| 18:27.04 | Twingy | no, hopping on co-workers computer until lappy ariives |
| 18:27.18 | ``Erik | the other two quit working... |
| 18:27.48 | Twingy | wendy got upset when I told her I was checking my email twice a week |
| 18:27.55 | ``Erik | hh |
| 18:28.10 | ``Erik | wow, twice? you're cutting into your productivity there |
| 18:28.14 | Twingy | the funny thing is, I don't care :) |
| 18:28.30 | ``Erik | I've taken the stance that I check it MAYBE once a day... when I get into the office... |
| 18:28.38 | ``Erik | no one has given me shit yet |
| 18:31.54 | ``Erik | hah |
| 18:31.55 | ``Erik | admin leave |
| 18:31.56 | ``Erik | swank |
| 18:32.52 | ``Erik | I'm damn glad I didn't attempt to drive in today |
| 18:39.01 | Maloeran | Working from home? |
| 18:39.55 | docelic | so who is wendy ? |
| 18:46.48 | Maloeran | The boss of Erik's boss, and the boss of Justin's former boss |
| 18:47.17 | docelic | Were the emails spicy, ``Erik ? |
| 18:47.17 | docelic | :) |
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| 20:17.33 | ``Erik | heh, sorry... didnah catch teh k0rekshunz |
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| 20:49.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix the variety of ami.tcl and ampi.tcl tclscript warnings/errors |
| 22:04.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 3 dirs): remove libtkGLX. it was only being compiled on IRIX, but actually not even being used there. |
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| 03:29.17 | Maloeran | 204 man-years? Is that serious? |
| 03:30.13 | Maloeran | With 16 man-years from Lee into BRL-CAD?... |
| 03:34.23 | Twingy | 0.7 man years from me, 2.5 if you count adrt/isst |
| 03:52.54 | brlcad | Maloeran: that 204 is just a count of the years involvement -- that's not an estimate of man-years effort |
| 03:53.48 | brlcad | man-years effort is actually considerably more by most of the metric tools |
| 03:54.13 | brlcad | ohloh currently has brl-cad at roughly 450 man-years of effort |
| 03:54.35 | brlcad | lee has had commits go into brl-cad for at least 16 unique years |
| 03:55.17 | brlcad | it's actually 19, several of us have duplicate usernames for pre and post open sourcing that only overlap a year |
| 05:31.03 | brlcad | hehe... a ray-tracer written in sed |
| 05:31.04 | brlcad | http://funarg.nfshost.com/r2/code/sed/ray/ray.sed |
| 05:31.19 | brlcad | that's awesome |
| 05:36.36 | Maloeran | There's so much evil in this world... |
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| 13:12.52 | archivist | hehe that is language abuse |
| 15:19.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (15 files in 4 dirs): initial import |
| 15:29.31 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6364507.stm - This is terribly sad |
| 15:30.43 | Maloeran | France, Germany and many others knew too well how the invasion would end up, yet some people were clearly delusional |
| 15:41.42 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:41.18 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 17:41.18 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad | |
| 17:43.53 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 17:43.53 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad | |
| 18:50.57 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): put the UID as a static for the cpp, not the header ( we only want one ) |
| 19:41.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: |
| 19:41.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: major rewrite, almost from scratch. now supports all of the new options (-b, |
| 19:41.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: -l, -s, -i) and behaves more closely to cmp. supports processing over files |
| 19:41.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: byte-by-byte or pixel-by-pixel, comparing values, tabulating results, and |
| 19:41.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: reporting them in the format requested. |
| 20:10.25 | ``Erik | Didn't find trapezoid to close! |
| 20:10.27 | ``Erik | blargh |
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| 20:40.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.1: document the new -b option for processing and outputting results as bytes instead of pixels |
| 21:19.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Fix some compilation errors w.r.t. opennurbs library and mixed c/c++ compilation. |
| 21:20.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: reworded.. rewrote pixcmp providing improved I/O format options |
| 21:21.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/wdb.h: Add mk_brep function |
| 21:24.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: Provide flag support for c++ (i.e. -g) |
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| 21:38.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: implement brep primitive import and export routines. still having problems with opennurbs (can't read 3dmProperties segment), still trying to determine if it's my fault or theirs. |
| 21:39.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: add brep.cpp to source files, opennurbs conditional compilation additions |
| 21:40.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep.cpp: Added |
| 21:42.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: Add brep_cube as program for compilation |
| 21:42.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: Added |
| 21:47.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: initialize counter vars |
| 21:50.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: mention cmp |
| 22:05.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: mention cmp |
| 22:48.05 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6363843.stm - Neat :) |
| 22:56.07 | Maloeran | How reliable is pthread_kill() to asynchroneously, instantly kill threads? On Linux, threads are processes of their own, so I'm not sure behavior is identical on other platforms |
| 22:56.51 | Maloeran | Ah nevermind, there's PTHREAD_CANCEL_ASYNCHRONOUS for pthread_cancel() of course |
| 23:11.17 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): screw the pimple, it's a freaking static lib, causes more trouble then it's worth. |
| 23:20.19 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/include/IRCServer.h: |
| 23:20.19 | CIA-5 | libIRC: some defaults |
| 23:20.19 | CIA-5 | libIRC: remove classes we don't use. |
| 23:20.57 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc7.1/stupidBot.vcproj: get the supids to build and do something |
| 23:21.30 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/stupidServer/ (src/stupidServer.cpp vc7.1/stupidServer.vcproj): get the supids to build and do something |
| 01:00.20 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: ws |
| 02:44.30 | louipc | hey hey |
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| 03:42.07 | brlcad | hey hey hey |
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| 12:41.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep.cpp: BRL-CAD headers have their extern C already, some system headers don't like in in C++ mode |
| 12:44.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/libwdb.dsp: |
| 12:44.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: add brep.cpp to source files |
| 12:44.16 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: openNURBS compilation additions |
| 14:54.10 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 16:16.55 | prezkennedy | argh too many passwords to remember |
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| 17:06.06 | prezkennedy | crazy folks must actually be working today |
| 17:08.19 | brlcad | crazy talk |
| 17:08.53 | prezkennedy | i know! |
| 17:09.10 | prezkennedy | you guys should still be out to lunch for another 2 hours ;-) |
| 17:23.33 | ``Erik | <-- at home, has the day off |
| 17:23.42 | ``Erik | rdo + holiday, y0, 4 day weekend |
| 17:24.33 | prezkennedy | those are always fun :-) |
| 18:44.20 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.11) | |
| 20:42.38 | prezkennedy | geez is it time to go yet |
| 22:11.41 | prezkennedy | see y'all later! |
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| 23:27.47 | bjorkBSD | uh oh. where's brlcad? |
| 23:28.52 | archivist | he hides under a psuedonym |
| 23:33.52 | bjorkBSD | hrmm. |
| 23:34.36 | archivist | tofu |
| 23:48.26 | bjorkBSD | belize, tofu? |
| 00:37.27 | brlcad | hello |
| 00:37.49 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 01:44.17 | Maloeran | brlcad or Erik, do you think there might be any interest in performing raytracing on truly programmable "GPUs"? http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda.html |
| 01:44.40 | Maloeran | From what I hear, it can do random memory access and incoherent branching finally, compiling true C code |
| 02:04.09 | Maloeran | This really looks perfect to perform tasks such as raytracing, an excellent architecture. It's nothing like our mess of CPUs and their hardware cache synchronisation |
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| 02:11.58 | IriX64 | guys, automake-1.10 broke your autogen.sh. |
| 02:12.44 | IriX64 | can i get away with renaming it to -1.9.9? |
| 02:14.46 | IriX64 | no i cant |
| 02:15.24 | brlcad | IriX64: what's the error? |
| 02:15.33 | brlcad | ./autogen.sh --verbose |
| 02:16.09 | brlcad | Maloeran: haven't we talked about that before already? :) |
| 02:16.29 | IriX64 | at least version 1.6.0 is required. |
| 02:16.30 | brlcad | we've been watching the gpgpu developments for years |
| 02:16.44 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, are you in belize? |
| 02:16.45 | brlcad | IriX64: hmm, maybe they changed their version string |
| 02:16.49 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: heh, no |
| 02:17.05 | bjorkBSD | thought so. |
| 02:17.07 | Maloeran | brlcad, they finally reached the point where GPUs can be usable for some real computations |
| 02:17.08 | brlcad | the server name comes from bz.bzflag.bz .. tld makes for a nice server name |
| 02:17.09 | IriX64 | they did it says 1.10 |
| 02:17.24 | brlcad | Maloeran: that's been the case for at least two years |
| 02:17.42 | brlcad | there are still some issues, but it's usable |
| 02:17.59 | Maloeran | Random memory access with pointers, synchronisation between threads, shared memory, incoherent branching ; this is new |
| 02:18.15 | brlcad | floating point being one, generality being another, and writing to an interface that is constantly changing fast |
| 02:18.44 | Maloeran | CUDA is pseudo-C and meant to stay, it seems quite nicely designed |
| 02:19.25 | IriX64 | _report_error=no for now ;) |
| 02:20.20 | brlcad | yep, cuda is interesting, and has come a ways |
| 02:20.25 | brlcad | interface is still changing fast |
| 02:20.25 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, you mentioned the other day that tk wouldn't be used for the next interface, what might it be instead? |
| 02:20.39 | bjorkBSD | your answer scrolled offscreen when i got back. |
| 02:20.46 | bjorkBSD | screen/buffer etc |
| 02:20.57 | Maloeran | brlcad, I think it's a huge leap forward. My nv6xxx and nv7xxx were unusable for tasks such as raytracing ( I tried ), but these programmable arrays of little processors will do nicely |
| 02:20.57 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: not logging? :) |
| 02:21.14 | bjorkBSD | no :D |
| 02:21.19 | bjorkBSD | i've run out of harddisk space :( |
| 02:21.30 | Maloeran | Could there be any interest in developing CUDA raytracing over there? |
| 02:21.34 | bjorkBSD | ... i'm trying now to delete some non-essentials i don't wanna get rid of. |
| 02:22.13 | bjorkBSD | small harddisk. |
| 02:22.46 | brlcad | Maloeran: again.. this isn't anything new :) there is/was interest -- just a matter of being interesting *enough* to actually dominate over other tasks and to date that has not been the case for pragmatic reasons |
| 02:23.03 | brlcad | there is certainly interest though.. that would be sweet to testbed |
| 02:23.10 | brlcad | I'd certainly fund the idea ;) |
| 02:23.17 | Maloeran | I'm certainly very interested to try out |
| 02:23.31 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hehe |
| 02:23.53 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hmmm did you build static, or do you just not have much hard drive space? |
| 02:24.21 | bjorkBSD | not much space to begin with. |
| 02:24.21 | brlcad | cd / && du -k | sort -nr |
| 02:24.37 | Maloeran | And the Rayforce API would adopt such a new back-end very nicely, it was meant to do so |
| 02:25.01 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: as to the answer, it's still somewhat undecided though also somewhat non-critical given how the design is layered |
| 02:25.01 | bjorkBSD | and i've been too lazy to go get another drive. |
| 02:25.08 | bjorkBSD | ah okay. |
| 02:25.23 | brlcad | opengl driven would be a requirement |
| 02:25.31 | bjorkBSD | do you think it would still look the same? :D |
| 02:25.37 | brlcad | as well as some form of framebuffer support |
| 02:25.41 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: not in the least |
| 02:25.57 | Maloeran | It's usable outside OpenGL and other APIs. You can use the library directly to offload computations on the GPU |
| 02:26.13 | brlcad | some of the same capabilities, taking some of the best features, but none of the existing gui code in mged would be used |
| 02:26.15 | Maloeran | Though it can of course be used along with OpenGL |
| 02:26.52 | brlcad | Maloeran: my opengl comment wasn't towards you :) |
| 02:27.01 | brlcad | towards new modeling interface |
| 02:27.42 | brlcad | i agree that leveraging the gpu behind a C api would be sweet |
| 02:28.10 | brlcad | what that api is, looks like, and how functional it is from a practical standpoint becomes important |
| 02:28.13 | Maloeran | And CODA uses C code directly, with several extensions to the language, such as vector data types |
| 02:28.30 | Maloeran | It looks very much usable to me, from all points of view |
| 02:29.48 | brlcad | from all points of a view is a rather bold statement.. |
| 02:29.48 | Maloeran | I dreamed of raytracing hardware as I was frustrated of the horrible architecture of processors, memory and cache. These GPUs actually have an elegant architecture, highly efficient, very flexible |
| 02:31.26 | bjorkBSD | hmmm Maloeran you just might re-invent the ancient SGI machines ;) |
| 02:31.27 | brlcad | elegant and efficient for certain purposes, not for all purposes in the least |
| 02:31.27 | brlcad | it's a great approach for some tasks, but there's no sense in overhyping it beyond what it actually is :) |
| 02:31.45 | Maloeran | :) Fine fine, forgive me if I'm a bit excited by these new chips :) |
| 02:32.01 | brlcad | a little transparent ;) |
| 02:33.11 | brlcad | as far as I recall, cuda still didn't directly support (i.e. hardware-accelerate) double precision yet did it? |
| 02:33.36 | Maloeran | Well no, it doesn't |
| 02:33.42 | brlcad | k |
| 02:33.59 | brlcad | what about framebuffer locking? |
| 02:34.26 | Maloeran | What do you mean by framebuffer locking exactly? |
| 02:35.14 | brlcad | (so you can cluster-compute with gpu cards) .. their high-end cards support this, but to date none of the others did |
| 02:35.21 | brlcad | basically, the ability to lock and share portions of the framebuffer memory |
| 02:35.36 | brlcad | akin to acquiring a semaphore lock on portions of memory between video cards |
| 02:35.49 | Maloeran | brlcad, CUDA runs code like an array of processors. You can store the results back straight into system memory, without any "framebuffer" |
| 02:36.50 | brlcad | of course, but you're talking about one card -- that's not what I"m referring to |
| 02:37.40 | brlcad | you can actually gang together video cards across a cluster, for example, and get them inter-processing similar to cluster cpus |
| 02:37.52 | brlcad | actually talking to or at least collaborating between each other |
| 02:38.07 | brlcad | to date only a few cards have allowed this, rather high-end |
| 02:38.15 | Maloeran | Hum. Well, the cluster CPUs manage the operations of the GPUs, so I don't see that as a problem |
| 02:38.44 | brlcad | heh, that's a different approach and kills the benefit I would have retained |
| 02:40.09 | Maloeran | I haven't read anything about synchronisation of multiple GPUs. As far as I can tell, their operation is entirely managed by the processors |
| 02:40.57 | brlcad | it's the same technology that allows you to drive massive displays (like 40000x40000 pixel displays) |
| 02:42.03 | brlcad | (with one cpu) |
| 02:42.03 | Maloeran | Right, I see |
| 02:42.03 | brlcad | you can of course approach the problem in other ways |
| 02:42.04 | brlcad | but most of them suck ass |
| 02:42.04 | brlcad | (in comparison to having framelock) |
| 02:44.07 | brlcad | it's one of the details that separates the quaddro fxers from the geforce line |
| 02:44.07 | brlcad | and I forget the ati equivalent |
| 03:03.53 | IriX64 | may i give u a pastebin url? |
| 03:04.30 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/359867 |
| 03:04.40 | IriX64 | hat happens with automake 1.10 |
| 03:04.59 | IriX64 | +w :) |
| 03:06.12 | IriX64 | ill be back when i have a fix (cripes Irix just drop back a couple of revs :)) |
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| 03:31.37 | brlcad | IriX64: interesting |
| 04:56.25 | brlcad | IriX64: is that with CVS or a source tarball? |
| 04:56.29 | brlcad | more importantly.. if that is a source tarball, can you retry with the latest cvs? there have been several changes with respect to adrt (which is what it is error'ing on) |
| 04:56.30 | IriX64 | source tarball |
| 04:56.31 | IriX64 | dont have cvs |
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| 04:56.36 | IriX64 | tried to paste something to pastebin.ca, keeps going away before i can cut the url, sorry but it was the output of aclocal and automake. |
| 04:56.38 | dtidrow | brlcad: the ATI FireGL line is roughly equivalent to the nVidia Quadro line |
| 06:17.28 | Maloeran | ATI's Linux drivers have always been atrociously bad in my experience, especially the amd64 ones. I can't imagine anyone using them for serious software |
| 06:17.33 | dtidrow | well, there is that |
| 06:17.33 | dtidrow | though supposedly they have gotten better, I still much prefer nVidia |
| 06:17.33 | dtidrow | hopefully AMD will bash some sense into them :-) |
| 06:17.33 | dtidrow | in my experience, the nVidia Linux drivers 'just work' |
| 06:17.39 | brlcad | dtidrow: true, but last time I check (2 years ago?) the firegl line was still missing frame locking, or there was some issue with it |
| 06:18.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: ati's drivers generally do suck in comparison, though the quadro and firegl drvier line aren't the same caliber as the consumer grade ones |
| 08:05.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 08:05.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: AM_PROG_CC_STD was deprecated and later made obsolete by automake 1.8 with the |
| 08:05.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: functionality merged into AC_PROG_CC. the macro attempted to ensure that the |
| 08:05.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compiler is running in 'ansi mode'. add AM_PROG_CC_C_O to handle compilation of |
| 08:05.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: non-libtool stuff with compilers that don't happen to support the common -c -o |
| 08:05.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: syntax. latest automake seems to be complaining about the option being |
| 08:05.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: missing/needed (reported by IriX64) during autogen.sh. |
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| 21:34.37 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad | |
| 22:11.21 | *** join/#brlcad cad88 (n=530d8e42@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 22:12.36 | cad88 | hello I have problem with mged and rt ( 7.8.4 ), mged tries to lunch /usr/bin/rt instead of /usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 22:12.58 | cad88 | is there any config to change path? |
| 22:13.59 | cad88 | during configure --prefix was not changed |
| 22:15.09 | IriX64 | last line of make install output: be sure to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your *path* |
| 22:16.03 | cad88 | I did it |
| 22:16.15 | IriX64 | did ir right? |
| 22:16.20 | IriX64 | it even. |
| 22:16.21 | cad88 | 100% |
| 22:16.35 | IriX64 | try it from the bin dir then. |
| 22:16.43 | cad88 | The probelm is that mget tries to run rt with absolute path |
| 22:16.46 | IriX64 | ie cd /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 22:17.02 | cad88 | rt works perfectly rom tty but not from mged |
| 22:17.15 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 22:17.57 | IriX64 | works properly here |
| 22:18.06 | IriX64 | gotta be your setup |
| 22:18.31 | IriX64 | rt: a database is not open. |
| 22:19.10 | IriX64 | want me to pastebin it? |
| 22:19.41 | cad88 | when I do rt in mged i got: /usr/bin/rt no such file or dir |
| 22:19.48 | cad88 | yes please |
| 22:19.59 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 22:22.33 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/361083 |
| 22:24.54 | cad88 | no you have miss understand me.... I mean that mged ties to run rt with absolute path ... /usr/bin/rt ant it should run it with /usr/bin/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 22:25.14 | cad88 | mged just cant find binary of rt |
| 22:25.20 | IriX64 | if it was trying that i would not have got the result i did . |
| 22:25.41 | cad88 | if I link ls -s /usr/brldcad/bin/rt to /usr/bin/rt all works |
| 22:26.12 | IriX64 | symlink? its not necessary, you've got issues on your system. |
| 22:26.44 | cad88 | I'm running gentoo , self comiled ant it is nto system paths problem |
| 22:27.20 | IriX64 | pastebin too. |
| 22:27.25 | cad88 | what version of brlcad You are running? |
| 22:27.30 | IriX64 | 7.8.4 |
| 22:27.51 | cad88 | ok thanks anyway ... |
| 22:44.54 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (15 files in 5 dirs): remove the dependency on our own SDLNet, move the subset of what we needed into net.h and net.cpp, so there isn't any confilcts with apps that want to use SDLNet for other stuff. |
| 23:02.42 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/net.cpp: add in the actual net implementation |
| 23:03.02 | CIA-5 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/include/net.h: remove the old pre OSX open transport code. |
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| 00:39.04 | IriX64 | that datarootdir thing this fixed it for me. |
| 00:39.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/361223 |
| 00:52.58 | brlcad | there's already a fix in for that that doesn't outright override the datadir |
| 00:53.22 | IriX64 | hah new way to distribute binaries, compile with --prefix=/usr/local/whatever, make install and tar up /usr/local/whatever and tell em to unpack accordingly :) |
| 00:53.34 | IriX64 | where can i get this fix? |
| 00:54.42 | brlcad | cvs |
| 00:54.49 | IriX64 | ty |
| 00:55.39 | IriX64 | at the moment tho, my forge is melting bits :) |
| 01:00.01 | IriX64 | mine won't hurt anything tho will it? |
| 01:00.59 | IriX64 | not that ill distribute it or anything but i fear shooting myself in the foot here. |
| 01:02.24 | IriX64 | i figure as long as im on *this setup it should work forever :) |
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| 07:20.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 07:20.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: collapse the version checks into one routine. improve the version checks so |
| 07:20.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: that they work more reliably for various version string formats. this |
| 07:20.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: refactoring should fix a bug in the script where automake 1.10 was being |
| 07:20.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: incorrectly processed as 1.1.0 among other benefits and code simplification. |
| 07:27.56 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: simplify some more, make sed a requirement and abort if it seems to be unavailable |
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| 19:04.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: add an initial interface file for libsysv. this compatibility interface shouldn't really be included throughout the package, but may ultimatley get added to common.h as part of configuration compatibility. |
| 19:04.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add the new sysv.h header to the noinst header list. |
| 19:06.02 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (bsdselect.c strdup.c): deknrify the function |
| 19:06.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strsep.c: ws |
| 19:12.18 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (bsdselect.c strchr.c strdup.c strtok.c): ws |
| 19:13.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: initial addition of basename() so we don't need to test for its availability |
| 19:14.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: add the new basename.c file, extracted from openbsd (bsd licensed) |
| 19:14.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: add basename() |
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| 19:58.28 | IriX64 | cygwin+brlcad=windows cad system :) |
| 20:04.11 | IriX64 | tried to fix autogen.sh myself, mucked it up completly, started reporting version 0.0 of the tools. |
| 20:04.25 | louipc | whoah |
| 20:04.43 | IriX64 | thank God for backups. :) |
| 20:04.45 | louipc | yeah I just noticed that it detected automake incorectly |
| 20:05.01 | IriX64 | 1.1.0? |
| 20:05.02 | louipc | it thinks v 1.10 is 1.1.0 |
| 20:05.07 | IriX64 | ditto |
| 20:05.21 | IriX64 | good job. |
| 20:05.36 | louipc | nice |
| 20:06.25 | brlcad | would one of you test and make sure it works: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh |
| 20:07.56 | Maloeran | Grr. "cvs [commit aborted]: there is no version here; do `cvs checkout' first" |
| 20:08.08 | Maloeran | And a cvs checkout of course doesn't solve anything |
| 20:08.17 | louipc | brlcad: looks good so far |
| 20:08.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: progname is often not the same as argv[0], so modify bu_getprogname() accordingly and expose the bu_argv0() function to distinguish between the two. |
| 20:09.19 | Maloeran | Do you have 30 seconds to help with that cvs message, brlcad? |
| 20:09.31 | Maloeran | I sure often get obscure cvs errors when I move files around between desktop and latop |
| 20:10.11 | brlcad | hm |
| 20:10.46 | brlcad | they both the same OS and version of CVS? |
| 20:11.02 | Maloeran | Same OS, 32 and 64 bits though, perhaps not quite the same version of CVS |
| 20:11.23 | brlcad | sounds like you're commiting from a dir outside the cvs tree |
| 20:11.38 | brlcad | you only do a checkout once |
| 20:11.47 | Maloeran | I'm right in ~/rayforce |
| 20:11.57 | brlcad | and there's a ~/rayforce/CVS dir? |
| 20:12.08 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 20:12.21 | brlcad | cat ~/rayforce/CVS/Root |
| 20:12.34 | Maloeran | Looks fine |
| 20:12.55 | brlcad | can you pm it to me |
| 20:13.02 | brlcad | as well as CVS/Repository |
| 20:13.41 | Maloeran | I think it's throwing the error because of the other/ directory actually, there's no ./CVS there |
| 20:14.08 | brlcad | could be |
| 20:14.32 | brlcad | all of the D entries in ~/rayforce/CVS/Entries will get traversed |
| 20:14.56 | brlcad | you can avoid the problem by commiting files individually of course, or fix your Entries file |
| 20:15.08 | Maloeran | ./other is listed |
| 20:15.15 | brlcad | ahh |
| 20:15.18 | brlcad | then that's why |
| 20:15.35 | brlcad | you probably copied the file over from some other place that didn't have a CVS into a current checkout |
| 20:16.00 | Maloeran | Right, I think I'll manage to fix it from there. Thanks |
| 20:16.05 | brlcad | s/probably/almost guaranteed |
| 20:16.29 | brlcad | you should be able to mv other and cvs update -dP |
| 20:16.39 | Maloeran | There we go, it works. Thanks |
| 20:17.04 | brlcad | you should update -dP just to make sure you didn't hide the problem for down the road ;) |
| 20:17.17 | ``Erik | <-- points out that it's WAY easier to leave a checkout in place, have seperate checkouts on the lappie and workstation, and when you want to move between the two, make sure you're all committed up and just update on the other... |
| 20:17.43 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:17.53 | brlcad | frequent commits and all that jazz |
| 20:18.32 | ``Erik | to usurp the meme, commit early, commit often |
| 20:21.10 | ``Erik | the Entries file will hold what your side thinks is in the repo... you can always co to a new place to verify it |
| 20:23.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: basename() is guaranteed by libsysv now, so no need to check for HAVE_BASENAME |
| 20:24.35 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/str_manip.c: remove the unnecessary definition of basename() .. libsysv provides a better version if it truely is not provided by the system. |
| 20:27.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/.cvsignore: ignore more ac_config_subdir/configure crap dumped in here |
| 20:28.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore newly added brep_cube if it exists |
| 20:29.16 | IriX64 | ok, I'm beat how do i get that autogen.sh? |
| 20:29.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: sort lines, vars first |
| 20:30.02 | brlcad | IriX64: er, with any browser? |
| 20:30.16 | IriX64 | can't open page. |
| 20:30.25 | brlcad | then you probably copied the url wrong |
| 20:30.34 | IriX64 | cut and paste brlcad. |
| 20:30.45 | IriX64 | will try again. |
| 20:30.48 | brlcad | then you probably cut and paste wrong :) |
| 20:31.13 | brlcad | else, just type it in: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh |
| 20:31.39 | brlcad | it might even just download immediately |
| 20:32.44 | IriX64 | not letting me in and its exactly what you just typed. |
| 20:33.17 | IriX64 | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh |
| 20:33.24 | IriX64 | right? |
| 20:33.38 | brlcad | IriX64: that looks right |
| 20:33.39 | IriX64 | im using ie. |
| 20:33.58 | ``Erik | <-- can't try ie, is totally windows free here at home |
| 20:34.16 | IriX64 | heh a dream come true eh? |
| 20:34.38 | IriX64 | maybe i should install firefox. |
| 20:34.48 | brlcad | IriX64: then go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad -> click on Code -> click on Browse CVS -> click on brlcad -> scroll down to autogen.sh and click on the name -> click on "download" |
| 20:35.18 | brlcad | i suspect it's just downloading it already to your desktop or something |
| 20:36.53 | brlcad | yep, I just tried it in IE |
| 20:37.10 | brlcad | it shows a "cannot display this page" and downloads the file |
| 20:37.20 | Maloeran | Neat.. |
| 20:37.44 | brlcad | which for me also includes a dialog prompt of where to save the file , but I suspect you turned that off at some point |
| 20:38.01 | brlcad | of you've got a bunch of dialogs underneath or something |
| 20:38.08 | IriX64 | anim, awf but no autogen.sh |
| 20:38.35 | IriX64 | downloads it to where? |
| 20:38.59 | brlcad | you're asking me? |
| 20:39.01 | IriX64 | thanks tho lets not get caught up in it. |
| 20:39.07 | brlcad | it's your machine, your set up ;) |
| 20:39.20 | IriX64 | she built with automake 1.9.6 im happy. |
| 20:39.24 | brlcad | autogen.sh is at the very bottom |
| 20:40.45 | brlcad | no matter, it worked for louipc yes? |
| 20:41.07 | IriX64 | thanks give me ten i gotta install automake 1-10 again takes me a few minutes. |
| 20:43.17 | IriX64 | bing bang you're a winner, my thanks. |
| 20:43.43 | IriX64 | cept libtool is coming up 1.5.23a is that proper? |
| 20:44.29 | louipc | brlcad: yep |
| 20:44.37 | IriX64 | thanks then. |
| 20:44.56 | IriX64 | lets see if it actually builds with those makefiles. |
| 20:46.16 | louipc | It is a weird URL with the asterisks |
| 20:51.58 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.80) | |
| 20:52.19 | brlcad | asterisks are valid |
| 20:52.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: footer and ws |
| 20:52.36 | brlcad | IriX64: what does glibtoolize --version report? |
| 20:53.15 | IriX64 | 1.5.23a |
| 20:53.41 | IriX64 | so you're right its proper. |
| 20:54.27 | IriX64 | configuring it now. |
| 20:54.32 | brlcad | even better, it correctly compares now even though there's an alpha in there |
| 20:54.39 | IriX64 | yeah |
| 20:54.46 | IriX64 | good work. |
| 20:54.55 | louipc | brlcad: you really spiffied up that script |
| 21:00.01 | Maloeran | Gez, 20 minutes to do a cvs commit of 50mb from a 10mbits line |
| 21:01.08 | ``Erik | 50mb? O.o |
| 21:01.12 | ``Erik | what is it? |
| 21:01.45 | IriX64 | the whole freaking project (ducking and running) |
| 21:01.46 | Maloeran | All code! :) No, just a now decent geometry group file format |
| 21:01.56 | Maloeran | And +8202-3147 lines of code |
| 21:02.38 | ``Erik | it's an ascii format? |
| 21:02.52 | Maloeran | No, the roter-lowe galleon model is heavy |
| 21:03.23 | ``Erik | if it's not ascii, you should've done cvs add -kb <file> so it doesn't attempt to search it for tags |
| 21:03.29 | ``Erik | and try to do diffs on it |
| 21:03.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:03.37 | Maloeran | Oh! So that's what it was doing |
| 21:04.19 | Maloeran | And you are right, all the model files weren't uploaded as binary |
| 21:04.44 | ``Erik | plus changing every 0x0d to 0x0d0a |
| 21:05.05 | ``Erik | or trying to see if it needs to change 0x0d0a to 0x0d, or something |
| 21:05.10 | ``Erik | newline fixing |
| 21:05.13 | Maloeran | That will only happen if someone checkouts from a windows box |
| 21:05.45 | ``Erik | windows/dos will use 0x0d0a, *nix and osX will use 0x0d, and os[1-9] will use 0x0r |
| 21:06.01 | ``Erik | I don't recall what things like beos will do |
| 21:07.26 | ``Erik | (the history of all that predates unix, actually, and unix was deviant in faking the operations... newline and carrier feed map directly to old tty operations, just like old typewriters themselves) |
| 21:09.03 | Maloeran | :) I always found awkward the whole concept of "text mode" files, creates more problems than it solves |
| 21:10.41 | ``Erik | plenty of C functions to nice things up for you |
| 21:18.42 | brlcad | jeez.. a 12000 line commit differential.. if that's your idea of frequent small commits .. |
| 21:19.12 | brlcad | if there was a bug in there, you'd never find it via cvs history that's almost for certain |
| 21:28.04 | Maloeran | Indeed brlcad, but I'm quite alone on this anyway, and a CVS history is of no help for one's own code |
| 21:28.30 | brlcad | of no help for one's own code??? |
| 21:28.49 | brlcad | that's probably the dumbest thing I've heard you say in a long time :) |
| 21:28.51 | Maloeran | You wrote the code, you know it better than any history :) |
| 21:29.08 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:29.31 | brlcad | maybe you do today, what about in two weeks, or in two months or two years later.. when that bug is finally exposed |
| 21:29.50 | ``Erik | if you're working on tiny toy projects, sure... :D I hope most things I do are nontrivial and I forget minor details that machines find so important |
| 21:30.28 | brlcad | there is almost zero tracability on large commits, if the code is going to be more than a pet project .. that matters |
| 21:31.08 | IriX64_ | nmg-bot.exe, so far automake behaved :) |
| 21:31.31 | brlcad | I've frequently review cvs logs to see stuff that I did years ago, if anything it shows you the motivation for why something was changed, and if there's detail it can include references and other leads when there's a problem |
| 21:31.34 | ``Erik | I know with my personal projects, I rely heavily on tagging and good comments in the cvs history for preparing changelogs and making release statements |
| 21:31.39 | Maloeran | Right, years later, one might not even recognize the code as his own. If I knew a few extra CVS commands, I think I would recognize the value of a proper history |
| 21:32.02 | ``Erik | "log" "status" and "ann" are three I like |
| 21:32.06 | ``Erik | ann being annotate |
| 21:32.17 | brlcad | or just use annotate and you don't have to explain it :P |
| 21:32.36 | Maloeran | *nods* Three commands I have never learned or used |
| 21:32.46 | ``Erik | well, I'm thinking with my fingers, not my brain... :D I'd say 'co' instead of 'checkout' |
| 21:32.51 | brlcad | because all your code is "still in context" |
| 21:33.07 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 21:33.10 | brlcad | just wait until you eventually do have a context switch and have to figure it all out again |
| 21:33.32 | Maloeran | I know that, brlcad. I really need to learn these commands to see the value of a good history |
| 21:33.36 | brlcad | that's where code size and maintenance adds up exponentially |
| 21:33.36 | ``Erik | mal, pick something funky in brlcad and muck around with those three commands for a bit... |
| 21:34.02 | ``Erik | then think about poor little me, trying to understand rayforce when all I see is "+5123 -128 Stuff." |
| 21:34.26 | Maloeran | Ahah @ Stuff :) |
| 21:36.14 | ``Erik | erik@vidar ~/devel$ cvs log 2>/dev/null | grep -i stuff | wc -l |
| 21:36.14 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:37.44 | ``Erik | very little code is ever complete... no code is ever adequately tested... and no code is ever bug-free :D |
| 21:38.01 | brlcad | unless your code is but a handful of lines, there will almost *always* undoutedly be bugs no matter how much you test and feel comfortable with it |
| 21:38.20 | ``Erik | for initial development, being able to compile is a good tough goal for nightly cvs state |
| 21:38.21 | IriX64 | autogen.sh says you're a liar, so does 10 goto 10 ;) |
| 21:38.51 | brlcad | being able to compile after every cvs commit, regardless of testing and functionality is generally a good goal |
| 21:39.04 | brlcad | if you can get that much working right, you'll be better off than 90% of projects |
| 21:39.27 | brlcad | what bugs? |
| 21:39.39 | ``Erik | (also; testing fresh checkouts every once in a while is good practice) |
| 21:39.50 | Maloeran | *nods* All right, so noted, I'll do so. Basically, before now, I was only commiting when there was something new to show |
| 21:39.53 | ``Erik | that "sh autogen.sh" not matching that you fixed back then |
| 21:40.35 | IriX64 | speak too. |
| 21:40.35 | ``Erik | I hope autogen.sh is posix sh, not bash... |
| 21:40.54 | IriX64 | posix is just a name like bash. |
| 21:40.58 | ``Erik | cuz, uh, I use it with non-bash shells :) a modified bsh, ksh, zsh, ... |
| 21:41.06 | ``Erik | bash is a piece of software, posix is a set of standards... |
| 21:41.08 | IriX64 | cmon |
| 21:41.38 | IriX64 | cmd.exe is not posix but can be made to run autogen.sh |
| 21:41.39 | brlcad | ah, yes.. that was working, then broken then working re sh |
| 21:41.52 | brlcad | it wasn't a posix vs bash thing, just a basename/lookup issue |
| 21:42.31 | ``Erik | <-- tries to make his work with a strict posix sh for portability |
| 21:42.44 | IriX64 | sometimes it pays to learn the scripting languages, but there are so bloody many of them. |
| 21:42.58 | brlcad | can't imagine what it's break on even with strict posix at the moment |
| 21:43.05 | brlcad | i'd be interested in seeing a report if it fails |
| 21:43.17 | IriX64 | passed here |
| 21:43.20 | brlcad | only thing maybe might be some [] operations |
| 21:43.34 | brlcad | don't remember if posix allows -ne and -eq |
| 21:44.30 | ``Erik | since it's using /bin/sh, it'll be pretty damn close if not strictly posix on bsd, solaris, I THINK irix, ... only linux assumes /bin/sh is bash, iirc |
| 21:45.39 | IriX64 | ``erik bat file script i know, might take me a while but i could code an equivelent. |
| 21:46.38 | IriX64 | ``E too, sorry :) |
| 21:46.38 | ``Erik | equivelant to what? |
| 21:46.51 | IriX64 | to autogen but *you have to write the tools that it uses ok? ;) |
| 21:48.03 | IriX64 | bwthresh.exe sweet. |
| 21:48.04 | ``Erik | uh... if you're gonna use it on windows, you might as well install cygwin and have a working sh? |
| 21:48.16 | IriX64 | uhhh ;) |
| 21:48.24 | ``Erik | or use the msvc files and ignore the auto* stuff... |
| 21:48.47 | IriX64 | msvc is pricey. |
| 21:51.06 | ``Erik | didn't ms release a free version? lacking the fancy ide, I think, but should be able to build using the project build files, no? |
| 21:51.30 | IriX64 | unknown to me ``Erik. |
| 21:52.53 | ``Erik | http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/download/default.aspx |
| 21:57.49 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/883914 |
| 21:59.05 | ``Erik | hm, I've seen similar screens before :D |
| 21:59.39 | ``Erik | of course, if I see that one, I say "oh, huh, I didn't break it" and try harder... |
| 22:00.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:06.28 | IriX64 | i think automake-1.10 works brlcad. |
| 22:06.59 | IriX64 | gonna install and runtest it. |
| 22:08.27 | IriX64 | whoa---/usr/cygcad/include/brlcad ... no such file or directory, what gives here? |
| 22:12.44 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/883927 |
| 22:18.25 | IriX64 | it looks like its not making the dir but i don't understand all this stuff in makefile, sorry :( but i can tell you this, with automake1.9.6 it works. |
| 22:44.40 | IriX64 | just rgressed to 1.9.6 and make install works again. |
| 22:45.30 | brlcad | IriX64: hard to say what the cause is, but on the surface it looks like an automake bug |
| 22:46.10 | IriX64 | too bad i don't speak perl, id try to help, but i leave that to those who are fluent. |
| 22:47.22 | IriX64 | ``Erik did I try hard enough? :) |
| 22:47.59 | IriX64 | btw is it safe to reconfigure and just do a make install thats how im trying this thing out. |
| 22:49.21 | brlcad | depends on what you're trying to do |
| 22:49.41 | brlcad | in general if you need to reconfigure, you probably should recompile |
| 22:49.48 | brlcad | but that's not always the case |
| 22:50.52 | IriX64 | same configure options, codes already compiled, should be able to get away with it no? |
| 22:51.46 | brlcad | then why are you rerunning configure? |
| 22:52.15 | IriX64 | did an autogen, wanted my makefiles fixed after i regressed to 1.9.6 of automake. |
| 22:52.33 | brlcad | for that, yeah, should be fine |
| 22:52.36 | IriX64 | ty |
| 23:26.07 | IriX64 | havoc renders, i'm all happy again :) |
| 00:24.01 | louipc | hm build failed |
| 01:08.46 | Maloeran | brlcad might be at least a half-god of the software, but I still suspect he'll need more information |
| 01:14.05 | ``Erik | mal, just for you... http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/pcmaclinux-thumb.jpg |
| 01:16.56 | Maloeran | Eheh, I saw it already, quite nice |
| 03:08.47 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:49.57 | Maloeran | Linux threads really execute in very constant, predictable patterns |
| 03:50.20 | Maloeran | It's good for the cache of processors, but I wish I could easily insert some randomness to test things out |
| 03:53.24 | louipc | aarg I don't think I'm getting the latest versions of everything |
| 03:59.07 | brlcad | louipc: que? |
| 04:00.06 | louipc | I think it has something to do with the way cvs packages are prepared on my distro |
| 04:00.30 | louipc | because doing it manually works |
| 04:37.33 | louipc | yep |
| 05:25.47 | IriX64 | nytol :) |
| 06:03.41 | Maloeran | Ouch. Looks like a nice theater |
| 08:23.16 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:23.59 | *** join/#brlcad cad10 (n=c636cad2@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:29.00 | louipc | yar I got that same make install error as IriX64. making the directory just makes it give Error 126 instead |
| 15:38.49 | brlcad | the farther ports gets from 5.4, the more fault-prone it seems to get |
| 15:39.56 | brlcad | I usually run: cvsup -g -L2 /etc/su |
| 15:40.03 | brlcad | /etc/supfile |
| 15:41.18 | brlcad | along with, portsdb -Uu, pkgdb -F, portupgrade -arR -l logfile |
| 15:43.28 | brlcad | curious to know if the scan comes up with anything |
| 15:46.17 | ``Erik | <-- not upgrading anything, but installed a couple things |
| 15:46.44 | ``Erik | everything php5 has buffer overflow vulnerabilities it'd seem |
| 15:46.58 | ``Erik | I threw on 'portsnap' and 'portaudit' |
| 15:47.27 | ``Erik | and ports are supposed to work fine on RELENG_5, which is now 5.5... you're running 5.2.1 :) |
| 15:47.41 | brlcad | yep |
| 15:47.55 | ``Erik | single proc machine? |
| 15:48.13 | ``Erik | <-- keeps thinking it's a dual for some reason |
| 15:48.26 | brlcad | i was inclined to upgrade the kernel, but frankly it freaks me a bit to mess with a stable config |
| 15:48.29 | brlcad | it's a single |
| 15:48.38 | brlcad | duals are way too overpriced |
| 15:49.04 | brlcad | heck even their singles are overpriced now or I would have just bought new hardware and migrated |
| 15:50.04 | ``Erik | you're leasing their hw, right? would it be easier to put together a machien and coloc it? |
| 15:50.34 | brlcad | yep, and not really |
| 15:50.49 | brlcad | the hardware lease is one of the cheapest parts |
| 15:51.11 | brlcad | bandwidth is the killer, and I got a sweet deal |
| 15:54.17 | brlcad | kerash |
| 15:59.05 | ``Erik | heh, yeah |
| 15:59.14 | ``Erik | there was some initialization command that I forgot or something |
| 15:59.24 | ``Erik | and it's seeing damaged ports before it gets there |
| 16:02.27 | brlcad | http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad |
| 16:02.59 | brlcad | fun with stats, they hooked us up |
| 16:03.06 | brlcad | http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad |
| 16:05.08 | ``Erik | I'll assume one of those big jumps in the line count graph was tcl/tk ? |
| 16:05.26 | ``Erik | not sure what the other was |
| 16:11.23 | brlcad | no, tcl doesn't cause that much |
| 16:12.02 | brlcad | i'm asking them what the second spike is.. we're not at 4.5 million lines |
| 16:12.39 | brlcad | the first is the open sourcing, licenses, headers, footers, ws, reorg |
| 16:13.29 | brlcad | thought it might have been some branch activity, but they show that on HEAD too |
| 16:13.49 | ``Erik | hrmmm |
| 16:13.54 | ``Erik | I wonder if they count the attic |
| 16:14.15 | ``Erik | mv lib* src/ could account for that, if they do? |
| 16:16.10 | brlcad | i doubt it, otherwise it would have been much more than double |
| 16:17.28 | brlcad | i vaguely recall accounting for a second spike in the statcvs report, maybe a ws thing, but then their report should account for that as it looks like its supposed to be tracking + and - lines |
| 16:19.01 | brlcad | ./topic BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... |
| 16:19.05 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 16:19.19 | brlcad | chmod 775 topic |
| 16:19.25 | louipc | woohoo |
| 16:25.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: ew, that didn't exist for a reason :P (but I don't really care either) |
| 16:26.16 | ``Erik | what didn't? the pkg shtuff? |
| 16:26.23 | ``Erik | or /usr/tmp ? |
| 16:26.34 | brlcad | tmp |
| 16:26.42 | ``Erik | I'll remove it when I'm done *shrug* |
| 16:26.45 | louipc | it looks like MKDIR_P has no value in the Makefile which is causing the make install error |
| 16:29.09 | brlcad | ``Erik: as I said, i don't really care .. it's just been entertaining/informative to see what tools presumed it existed |
| 16:29.23 | ``Erik | hehe |
| 16:29.42 | ``Erik | you'd be amazed what goes crazy if you have /usr/Xorg instead of /usr/X11R6 ;) |
| 16:29.51 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:30.18 | brlcad | louipc: hm.. that's odd -- we even provide mkdirp.m4 just in case |
| 16:31.02 | ``Erik | louipc: is that straight out of a distributed tarball? or are you running aclocal and automake? or autogen.sh? |
| 16:31.27 | louipc | that's from CVS & autogen.sh |
| 16:31.44 | brlcad | my guess is your version of automake is doing something .. different |
| 16:31.54 | brlcad | what are your versions? |
| 16:32.05 | brlcad | ./autogen.sh --version |
| 16:33.01 | louipc | Autoconf 2.61, automake 1.10, libtool 1.5.22 |
| 16:34.20 | brlcad | it could be a case sensitivity thing.. automake used to use mkdir_p not MKDIR_P in the Makefiles |
| 16:34.46 | brlcad | louipc: try this, mv m4/mkdirp.m4 misc/ |
| 16:34.48 | louipc | oi |
| 16:34.59 | brlcad | then redo autogen.sh, configure, make, etc |
| 16:35.23 | louipc | ok |
| 16:38.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: automake 1.10+ seems to use uppercase instead, subst both upper and lower |
| 16:48.54 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 16:50.27 | ``Erik | uhhh, how do you mean? |
| 16:50.50 | IriX64 | that configure.ac on cvs is *not the full blown one. |
| 16:52.16 | ``Erik | how is it not? what's missing? |
| 16:52.45 | IriX64 | let me look again, i downloaded and got 485 bytes. |
| 16:54.24 | IriX64 | slap me with a trout. |
| 16:55.20 | ``Erik | I'm sorry, but I don't like you in that tway |
| 16:55.30 | ``Erik | s/ t/ / |
| 16:55.41 | louipc | I only have halibut |
| 16:55.59 | IriX64 | heh |
| 16:56.25 | IriX64 | man replace 105kb with 450kb (whatd you do?) |
| 16:56.26 | brlcad | when you run autogen.sh, it generates configure from configure.ac |
| 16:56.36 | IriX64 | i know that. |
| 16:56.51 | brlcad | noir:~ morrison$ wc brlcad/configure.ac 3954 12243 123166 brlcad/configure.ac |
| 16:57.00 | brlcad | it should be about 4000 lines |
| 16:59.58 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884544 |
| 17:00.34 | IriX64 | thats from browse cvs man. |
| 17:02.07 | brlcad | you saved the web page |
| 17:02.25 | IriX64 | man i clecked on configure.ac |
| 17:02.27 | brlcad | presumably you pulled that from the cvs web interface |
| 17:02.38 | IriX64 | ie again? |
| 17:02.44 | brlcad | nope, your error ;) |
| 17:02.58 | IriX64 | heh all right, ill keep trying. |
| 17:03.06 | brlcad | if you right-click the download link, it'd work |
| 17:03.07 | louipc | clicking the file will give you a changelog or something |
| 17:03.09 | brlcad | but only that link |
| 17:03.24 | brlcad | i.e. it actually says (download) |
| 17:03.37 | IriX64 | as i said slap me with a halibut. :) |
| 17:03.40 | brlcad | not that it matters |
| 17:03.46 | ``Erik | irix, have you looked at http://www.wincvs.org/ |
| 17:03.47 | brlcad | that file is not going to work by itself |
| 17:04.14 | brlcad | you can't just take configure.ac and expect/hope it'll work -- it's tied to changes throughout the source tree |
| 17:04.37 | brlcad | autogen.sh is stand-alone which is why that one can be updated by itself |
| 17:05.16 | brlcad | i can pretty much guarantee that using a configure.ac from CVS head will fail on a 7.8 source tree |
| 17:05.27 | IriX64 | ty |
| 17:05.44 | IriX64 | but still i click download and it views the bloody thing. |
| 17:05.56 | brlcad | right-click, save as? |
| 17:06.04 | IriX64 | saves as html. |
| 17:06.26 | brlcad | not if you right click the (download) link |
| 17:06.53 | brlcad | if you just hit save on the menu, sure, or right-click one of the other non-download links, perhaps |
| 17:06.56 | IriX64 | ty learned something. |
| 17:08.02 | IriX64 | saves as configure.ac.txt |
| 17:08.59 | IriX64 | my fault the old one was there to system renamed it automagically :) |
| 17:09.05 | brlcad | that's IE for you |
| 17:09.11 | IriX64 | heh |
| 17:09.14 | brlcad | really should just use 'cvs' |
| 17:09.29 | brlcad | either wincvs or cvs in cygwin |
| 17:10.29 | Maloeran | IriX64, you should consider installing Firefox |
| 17:10.40 | brlcad | or tortoise cvs, another free windows gui cvs |
| 17:10.48 | louipc | or linux :P |
| 17:10.50 | Maloeran | Or just Linux, that'll solve many other problems too |
| 17:10.53 | IriX64 | had it before the great crash of 2006 |
| 17:10.59 | ``Erik | or freebsd, to solve the problems linux creates |
| 17:11.05 | ``Erik | or openbsd, or ... :D |
| 17:11.05 | louipc | hahaha |
| 17:11.14 | IriX64 | or bsd to solve those ones erik :P |
| 17:11.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:11.40 | ``Erik | on a vax? |
| 17:11.44 | ``Erik | or a pdp? :D |
| 17:11.49 | IriX64 | actually vms blows them all away. |
| 17:12.01 | brlcad | or just buy a Mac when you get tired of configuring and/or fighting your OS? :) |
| 17:12.19 | IriX64 | its the apps, the os is fine :) |
| 17:12.31 | ``Erik | except after configuring/fighting osX to get macports all groovy and applisms extracted, ... *cough* :D |
| 17:13.50 | IriX64 | 5'll get you ten i get this to work :P |
| 17:14.00 | brlcad | so.. if you import the configuration environments from other systems.. you end up needing to configure/fight.. who would have thought! |
| 17:14.28 | IriX64 | cooperative operating systems what a thought :) |
| 17:14.35 | ``Erik | hehehe, but it's supposed to be unix! it's mostly fbsd under the hood! :D |
| 17:14.40 | IriX64 | the unios. |
| 17:14.59 | ``Erik | a twisted mutated derivative of fbsd4 with other stuff hammered on in different places, but ... |
| 17:15.08 | brlcad | yes, but it's a sheep, shaven clean, wearing a leather jacket |
| 17:15.30 | IriX64 | that cow is pisses :P |
| 17:15.36 | IriX64 | pissed too. |
| 17:18.43 | IriX64 | he found him in mombassa, in a bar room drinking Gin,... |
| 17:23.36 | IriX64 | just what is this AM_PATH_SDL not found in library anyway. |
| 17:24.40 | ``Erik | you need libsdl installed (with it's m4 fu) to run autogen |
| 17:24.46 | ``Erik | it's used in adrt |
| 17:25.07 | IriX64 | thats not in the source tarball? |
| 17:25.31 | ``Erik | hm, looks like there's a copy in m4/, n/m :) |
| 17:27.53 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884559 |
| 17:28.18 | IriX64 | result of aclocal followed by automake autogen has already run. |
| 17:28.29 | ``Erik | aclocal needs to have -I m4 |
| 17:28.33 | ``Erik | autogen.sh does that for you |
| 17:28.47 | IriX64 | thank ill try it. |
| 17:29.11 | IriX64 | ill autogen verbose if you like and pastebin the output. |
| 17:29.25 | louipc | neato |
| 17:38.52 | IriX64 | autoconf -f takes a while. |
| 17:42.28 | IriX64 | brb |
| 17:43.28 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:06.48 | IriX64 | sigh.... i like a slow hand :) |
| 18:07.57 | IriX64 | honest officer, the last thing on my console is autoconf -f |
| 18:09.54 | IriX64 | finally, running automake. |
| 18:10.33 | IriX64 | please don't tell me you want me to repeat this with 1.10 :) |
| 18:12.29 | brlcad | heh, wow |
| 18:12.57 | brlcad | killall with no args on irix is apparently equivalent to shutdown |
| 18:13.50 | IriX64 | just picked this name to be kewl ;) |
| 18:14.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: i think i took down cad if you happen to be going by there.. |
| 18:15.13 | brlcad | it was failing on mounts to a particular bsd system |
| 18:17.58 | ``Erik | not today |
| 18:18.14 | IriX64 | missed that autoheader ran without even a warning. |
| 18:18.16 | ``Erik | it's a holiday, yo |
| 18:18.41 | IriX64 | same for autoconf. |
| 18:19.39 | ``Erik | heh, anyone with leenewx x86 asm fu wanna help me figure somethin' out? :D |
| 18:21.06 | IriX64 | x86? blame it on 18.2 ticks per second ``Erik ;) |
| 18:21.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:21.33 | brlcad | ``Erik: it is? |
| 18:21.51 | ``Erik | I got a brainfuck compiler that outputs x86 assembly in both unix and dos/linux calling conventions... |
| 18:22.11 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:22.12 | ``Erik | works dandy with the unix calling convention (fbsd), and the simpler test programs work fine on linux |
| 18:22.20 | ``Erik | but I have a more complicated one that fails on linux |
| 18:22.31 | brlcad | holy cow, it is! |
| 18:22.45 | ``Erik | it should almost immediately start printing output, but it immediately says "killed" |
| 18:22.55 | ``Erik | and even with -gstabs to as, I can't get a debugger to do anything with it |
| 18:23.28 | brlcad | i was getting dressed even |
| 18:23.46 | ``Erik | <-- remembered halfway to the office, turned around in a church parking lot and left some rbber on the road |
| 18:23.54 | ``Erik | at ferakin' seven something this morning |
| 18:24.00 | brlcad | hah |
| 18:24.02 | brlcad | sucker |
| 18:24.31 | brlcad | i mean, er, nice catch there right-o lad |
| 18:24.34 | ``Erik | and as I was driving, I was bitching at myself for not doing anything productive yesterday (thinking monday)... |
| 18:25.07 | ``Erik | 4 day weekend, w00 |
| 18:27.44 | brlcad | not having to decide between heroes and work, w00 |
| 18:29.29 | brlcad | i think ive asked you before, but what actually generates the assembler in you compiler? is it outputting binary in scheme or C or something else? |
| 18:29.55 | ``Erik | it's a C program, reads a bf file and outputs x86 asm |
| 18:30.27 | ``Erik | ./bf2as hi.bf > hi.s && as -o hi.o hi.s && ld -o hi hi.o && ./hi |
| 18:30.45 | brlcad | ive toyed with writing a shell script compiler several times |
| 18:31.00 | brlcad | ah, so you still call as |
| 18:31.22 | ``Erik | yeah, I have a shell to generate straight machien code, but I haven't started filling it in |
| 18:31.54 | ``Erik | and I have an interpreter that generates bytecode and executes it, as well as a version that outputs ansi C code |
| 18:34.16 | ``Erik | (the mandelbrot program takes about 50 seconds in the interpreter, 12 seconds as C compiled with -O0, 6 seconds as asm, and 3.5 seconds as C gcc -O1... a hair more with O2 or O3) |
| 18:52.33 | IriX64 | guys, my beautiful packard bell 3070a 17" monitor kaffed last night, lost the pincushion, whats retail for a good 17 inch in your country, i'm debating going new instead of taking it to joes tv repair shop. |
| 19:02.12 | ``Erik | http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=17+monitor&hl=en&btnG=Search |
| 19:02.20 | IriX64 | ``Erik, interesting project, I went the other way, take binary and decode it to pal neumonics, relativizing the addresses and index cells and all that, 72 opcodes to work with, but you can take a crash dump, run it thru this thing and invalid opcodes stick out like a sore thumb. |
| 19:05.19 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884630 |
| 19:05.32 | IriX64 | if you want a little look at how i did it. |
| 19:05.51 | IriX64 | btw automake is still running :) |
| 19:06.01 | IriX64 | no warnings yet. |
| 19:06.48 | ``Erik | to do what now? O.o |
| 19:07.02 | IriX64 | wait on automake ;) |
| 19:08.47 | IriX64 | the idea is to take it and build a crash dump analyzer, problem is you must have something to produce the crash dump to be read. |
| 19:09.16 | IriX64 | tempted to adapt it to windows. |
| 19:09.17 | ``Erik | yeah... it won't produce any kinda dump or anyhting |
| 19:09.34 | IriX64 | windows does a memory dump. |
| 19:09.34 | ``Erik | it immediately dies with 'killed', even if I break _start |
| 19:10.09 | ``Erik | if it crashed normal, it'd coredump... if it hit an illegal opcode, it'd die with sigill... |
| 19:10.19 | IriX64 | need something to dump memory before the restart thats all. |
| 19:13.34 | IriX64 | if the machine kaffs, set a flag errm no trap illegal and dump core to disk? |
| 19:14.55 | IriX64 | meantime back at the cpu, automake waves and keeps on trucking:) |
| 19:15.34 | brlcad | you used to run a bbs? |
| 19:15.51 | IriX64 | many years ago yes. |
| 19:16.08 | IriX64 | now where'd that come from? |
| 19:16.17 | IriX64 | whatd i paste. |
| 19:16.56 | IriX64 | The DogStar bbs, ===> finest kinnd. :) |
| 19:17.38 | brlcad | just wondering, used to sysop years ago myself |
| 19:17.45 | IriX64 | as? |
| 19:18.13 | IriX64 | meaning bbs name? |
| 19:19.55 | IriX64 | remeber Juge, he's famous :) |
| 19:20.17 | brlcad | ah hell, I don't remember .. it was 20 years ago |
| 19:20.33 | IriX64 | heh does Juge still have his up? |
| 19:20.37 | brlcad | do remember we changed the name a couple times |
| 19:20.55 | IriX64 | I toyed with that. |
| 19:21.02 | IriX64 | had a lot of fun. |
| 19:21.45 | brlcad | played with pcboard, but mostly used wwiv |
| 19:22.07 | brlcad | at least if memory serves.. |
| 19:22.13 | IriX64 | both good systems, i like wildcat too. |
| 19:22.18 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:22.33 | IriX64 | mine was based on adept, os2 pm app , sweet. |
| 19:26.34 | brlcad | zone 4 fidonet seems to ring a bell |
| 19:31.29 | Maloeran | A nice gesture of sanity, it seems Maryland is going to ban capital punishment... though you guys surely know that already |
| 19:34.52 | brlcad | not much of an issue for maryland, there have only been 5 total in the past 30 years |
| 19:35.53 | brlcad | pretty clear-cut cases of guilt too iirc, regardless of whether you agree with the punishment |
| 19:37.40 | Maloeran | I see. With 5 cases in 30 years, it has to be rather exceptional |
| 19:39.07 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 19:41.36 | brlcad | I think one of the first ones actually dropped his plea and requested execution |
| 19:45.51 | IriX64 | this goes beyond patience tonic, but i'll have another swig. |
| 19:48.25 | IriX64 | those days bitch slap ``Erik for saying that :) |
| 19:49.38 | ``Erik | (heh, yeah, maryland is a little less killhappy than, say, texas....) |
| 19:49.41 | ``Erik | morning, mal |
| 19:52.19 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, feel free to tell me where RF crashes on big endian if you try |
| 19:52.39 | ``Erik | tomorrie :) and iirc, it wasn't crashing, just showing the wrong colors |
| 19:52.46 | Maloeran | And don't try little<->big endian distributed processing yet, I'm not swapping bytes for user messages |
| 19:53.10 | Maloeran | *nods* I need to test the geometry group file format too |
| 19:53.46 | ``Erik | care to entertain a linux/x86/asm problem, mal? I'm as lost as irix64 at a kbd :D |
| 19:53.55 | IriX64 | Maloeran? You two were discussing multi-cpu clusters the other day. |
| 19:54.16 | Maloeran | I read above, Erik, but... I'm not too used to syscalls, I rather call libc functions |
| 19:54.26 | ``Erik | well, I d'no if that's the issue here |
| 19:54.39 | ``Erik | the simple ones that use syscalls work, the complex one doesn't... it gives me this |
| 19:54.40 | ``Erik | $ uname -mo ; as -o mandelbrot-as.o mandelbrot-as.s && ld -o mandelbrot-as mandelbrot-as.o && ./mandelbrot-as ; echo $? |
| 19:54.40 | ``Erik | i686 GNU/Linux |
| 19:54.40 | ``Erik | Killed |
| 19:54.40 | ``Erik | 137 |
| 19:54.41 | Maloeran | IriX64, yes we were |
| 19:55.04 | Maloeran | What does gdb say? |
| 19:55.18 | IriX64 | if you have a 40 cpu cluster what if you make it such that there is a master cpu to dole out tasks that need running to first idle cpu and what if you had a memory pool with memory doled out on a per task guestimate basis? |
| 19:56.03 | ``Erik | mal: http://paste.lisp.org/submit |
| 19:56.28 | Maloeran | IriX64, most such clusters use NUMA, you have multiple memory banks and you want each processor to work on its own local data |
| 19:56.43 | Maloeran | Erik, what do you want me to paste there? |
| 19:56.47 | brlcad | er, most commercial at least |
| 19:56.56 | IriX64 | i envision a pool instead of banks maybe a little more overhead but doable. |
| 19:57.44 | Maloeran | You are going to choke your memory bus if the 40 processors all go to the same memory bank |
| 19:57.45 | ``Erik | oh, hah, woops |
| 19:57.46 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 19:57.51 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/37073 |
| 19:57.57 | ``Erik | pasted the wrong piece |
| 19:58.02 | IriX64 | a pool of banks Malorean. |
| 19:58.37 | Maloeran | The banks are local to each processor for a good reason, it's faster to access them due to the reduced routing circuitry |
| 19:59.02 | Maloeran | Woohoo, that's neat Erik. What's the code? |
| 19:59.42 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/mandelbrot-as.s |
| 20:00.51 | brlcad | typo on line 562 |
| 20:00.57 | brlcad | *ahem* :) |
| 20:01.03 | ``Erik | it's generated |
| 20:01.05 | ``Erik | so it's fugly |
| 20:01.55 | ``Erik | (but it's generated, so if there's a typo, it's gonna appear many places |
| 20:01.58 | brlcad | sure you're not blowing the heap or something |
| 20:02.02 | Maloeran | It runs for me after a quick fix, outputting nice letters |
| 20:02.14 | ``Erik | what quick fix? |
| 20:02.29 | ``Erik | brlcad: it works dandy on fbsd, and the C varients runs dandy with teh same sized heap |
| 20:02.38 | Maloeran | Renaming _start to main and gcc foo.s -o foo |
| 20:02.47 | ``Erik | hmmmmmmmm |
| 20:03.11 | ``Erik | that, uh |
| 20:03.16 | ``Erik | <-- scratches his chin |
| 20:03.35 | brlcad | if renaming _start does the trick.. that would likely be some frame setup / heap problem .. |
| 20:03.40 | ``Erik | yeahhhh |
| 20:04.04 | ``Erik | maaaybe I need to actually walk the heap and set everything to 0 |
| 20:04.12 | Maloeran | How did you create your faulty executable? |
| 20:04.28 | ``Erik | hrm? I pasted the line up there a bit |
| 20:04.53 | ``Erik | heh, it works with teh same sized heap in other places, dude... I bet it's an init thing |
| 20:05.19 | ``Erik | perhaps fbsd sets memory in the fork or exec syscall and linux depends on the program startup code in libc to do it? *shrug* |
| 20:05.20 | Maloeran | Erik, what commands did you use to assemble and link? |
| 20:05.30 | ``Erik | <``Erik> $ uname -mo ; as -o mandelbrot-as.o mandelbrot-as.s && ld -o mandelbrot-as mandelbrot-as.o && ./mandelbrot-as ; echo $? |
| 20:05.39 | Maloeran | Ah right, sorry |
| 20:06.33 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:06.35 | brlcad | "What's going to happen to the 3D market once Google licenses and further develops BRL-CAD? I can see them doing this but releasing it on one of their appliances." - Paul Bowers, USA |
| 20:07.41 | ``Erik | http://www.upfrontezine.com/2005/upf-431.htm ? |
| 20:08.04 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 20:11.31 | IriX64 | wheres Mr. Tromey? why is there no progress indicator on this thing ;) |
| 20:12.05 | louipc | huh? Google is taking over BRL-CAD? |
| 20:12.40 | Maloeran | By the way Erik, your .s file works for me with _start too, I just had the reflex of letting gcc do the linking |
| 20:17.51 | brlcad | IriX64: on what? |
| 20:18.22 | Maloeran | That's quite slow, Erik ;) |
| 20:18.41 | Maloeran | If you really are working on a Brainfuck optimizer that is |
| 20:18.45 | ``Erik | well, ok |
| 20:18.49 | ``Erik | what's a fast way to zero the heap |
| 20:19.39 | Maloeran | I don't suppose you want to hear about a SSE loop with prefetches, but at least use rep movsq or rep movsd |
| 20:21.48 | ``Erik | stosd looks better |
| 20:22.01 | Maloeran | Oops, indeed |
| 20:24.19 | Maloeran | instructions also |
| 20:38.42 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884697 |
| 20:38.47 | IriX64 | it failed. |
| 20:44.00 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884699 <this is what i get running them manually with no switches. |
| 20:47.02 | Maloeran | Ah, aren't autoconf, automake and libtool just great |
| 20:49.45 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884705 <==== this is what the gebnerated configure does, no jokes about my system please. |
| 20:50.12 | IriX64 | remember i have successfully built from this source and ran the product. |
| 20:50.45 | louipc | I'm getting problems and I'm on linux :P |
| 20:51.02 | IriX64 | ran then in this order aclocal, autoconf, autoheader and automake. |
| 20:52.11 | IriX64 | running the script(when it succeeds, the syntax errors are not there) |
| 20:53.10 | IriX64 | confirmed, i just ran the script, automake fails but the generated configure does its job. |
| 20:57.21 | IriX64 | now it can't find x |
| 20:58.12 | IriX64 | and it tries to restart using config.site *doh* this is first time. |
| 20:59.22 | IriX64 | errands to run l8r all |
| 21:05.41 | ``Erik | heh, that'd put me over 20 makefiles, dude |
| 21:06.23 | ``Erik | aaaand, very interesting, if the first thing I do in this program is attempt to exit, it still fails... hmmm |
| 21:06.47 | brlcad | IriX64 isn't exactly the typical autoconf'ing user .. he seems to mindlessly edit files and then wonder why stuf breaks |
| 21:07.41 | ``Erik | heh, or extract an old tarball, copy one very new (and incompatable) file in and try that |
| 21:08.07 | ``Erik | at least he's trying :) |
| 21:09.15 | brlcad | problem is he starts on faulty premises *most* of the time.. tools not setup/installed correctly, stuff missing, stuff edited incorrectly, mismatches |
| 21:09.41 | brlcad | i mean, autoreconf/autogen.sh failed on him and yet he still tried to run configure... |
| 21:10.55 | brlcad | Maloeran: and as for his specific errors.. he is using a new configure.ac against old sources that I told him outright would not work, yet he insists on trying |
| 21:17.14 | dtidrow | brlcad: must need to use a bigger cluebat ;-) |
| 21:20.56 | louipc | mmm mv m4/mkdirp.m4 misc/, autogen, configure, make, make install fails with same error |
| 21:21.29 | louipc | how do you set that variable in the Makefiles? |
| 21:21.43 | louipc | (I'm kind of a noob) |
| 21:22.39 | louipc | oh no wait |
| 21:23.05 | louipc | ignore me |
| 21:24.40 | ``Erik | I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by threatening my agent with a golf club! |
| 21:49.25 | brlcad | louipc: hm, perhaps move mkdirp.m4 back and edit that file |
| 21:49.42 | brlcad | then add: |
| 21:49.52 | brlcad | MKDIR_P="$mkdir_p" |
| 21:50.11 | brlcad | AC_SUBST([MKDIR_P]) |
| 21:50.23 | brlcad | before the last AC_SUBST at the end of the file |
| 21:50.55 | louipc | you put that as the last two lines of the file yeah |
| 21:51.22 | brlcad | yeah, typo'd |
| 21:51.35 | brlcad | just noticed |
| 21:51.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: typo |
| 21:51.59 | brlcad | have to put them BEFORE the last line, else it's not inside the macro |
| 21:52.17 | louipc | oooh |
| 21:55.34 | louipc | I see now |
| 22:09.58 | ``Erik | http://xkcd.com/c180.html |
| 22:15.03 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:23.52 | ``Erik | I might print this one for my door... http://xkcd.com/c217.html |
| 22:53.12 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:03.25 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.112.46) | |
| 23:13.49 | Maloeran | I think I'm amazed that all these common chess openings and counter-moves have a name on wikipedia, every one of them |
| 23:14.43 | ``Erik | I'm amazed that there's a wikipedia page for "ray's urine" |
| 23:14.46 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:14.53 | louipc | hey success |
| 23:15.28 | louipc | hah hah |
| 23:16.03 | brlcad | louipc: excellent |
| 23:22.11 | IriX64 | dropped back to distributed configure.ac, compiling now (thanks for the bleeding knuckles ;)) |
| 23:23.07 | louipc | ;) |
| 23:38.49 | brlcad | Twingy: frederick county has legislation going in to boost the county's solar incentive from 3k to 15k |
| 23:40.14 | Twingy | not too shabby |
| 23:40.46 | Twingy | a bit of a drive to work though |
| 23:41.39 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:42.08 | brlcad | that's got to be lobbying from Solar or whatever their name is out there |
| 23:42.22 | brlcad | that big solar panel company right off the interstate |
| 23:42.22 | Twingy | nano solar? |
| 23:42.29 | Twingy | oh, no clue |
| 23:42.52 | brlcad | you can't miss them driving down I70 .. massive factory covered in panels |
| 23:43.28 | Twingy | ah, haven't traveled down I70 since I went to buy my fireworks in 2003 I think |
| 23:43.46 | Twingy | maybe a different interstate I'm thinking of |
| 23:44.08 | Twingy | I'm not even sure if I've ever been on I70 |
| 23:44.24 | brlcad | I think BP Global might have bought them out a few years ago |
| 23:44.35 | brlcad | but the company's name was just "Solar" iirc |
| 23:44.58 | Twingy | too bad MD is only 20% still |
| 23:45.15 | Twingy | 15k means you'd have to spend 75k |
| 23:45.30 | Twingy | fed is 30%, but only 2k |
| 23:45.32 | brlcad | ahh, yep.. "BP Solar" now |
| 23:45.34 | brlcad | http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=3050487&contentId=3060089 |
| 23:45.59 | brlcad | news claimed it would cover 50% |
| 23:46.25 | Twingy | I need to buy 2 more soon |
| 23:47.05 | brlcad | you could have had some interesting "neighbors" .. http://www.solarneighbors.com/ |
| 23:49.32 | Twingy | cnc'ing a jig right now |
| 23:51.08 | brlcad | ahh, that picture on bp is the frederick plant, apparently the main factory (and the company they took over was called Solarex (makers of solarex panels of course)) |
| 23:51.45 | Twingy | hopefully more people start putting panels on their roofs |
| 23:53.08 | Twingy | MRI? |
| 23:53.14 | Twingy | I did that a couple of times |
| 23:53.23 | brlcad | looks like it, but unspecified |
| 23:53.28 | Twingy | how many teslas was the scanner you were in? |
| 23:53.41 | brlcad | haven't done it yet |
| 23:53.44 | Twingy | oh |
| 23:54.10 | brlcad | if they're not going to give me the data, then they can go play with themselves in the scanner for all I care |
| 23:54.12 | Twingy | the resolution of the stuff they do for functional MRI case studies is pretty low |
| 23:54.31 | Twingy | only like 100-200 slices |
| 23:54.48 | brlcad | that was going to be my follow-up, but I almost expect it .. though nih does have the equipment for better.. just depends whom |
| 23:55.17 | Twingy | it depends on how long they are willing to keep you in the machine |
| 23:55.24 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:55.26 | Twingy | the really high detailed stuff takes several hours to collect |
| 23:55.33 | Twingy | some case studies are over night |
| 23:55.39 | Twingy | you just sleep in the machine |
| 23:56.53 | Twingy | chris cornell left audioslave |
| 23:57.18 | brlcad | so you're going to try and hire him |
| 23:57.32 | Twingy | not sure what use he would be to me :) |
| 23:57.46 | brlcad | a walking ipod |
| 23:57.59 | Twingy | right... |
| 23:58.15 | Twingy | you saw what happened to my last ipod... |
| 23:58.21 | brlcad | hah |
| 23:58.38 | brlcad | i can just picture it now |
| 23:59.24 | brlcad | that'd be a great family guy flashback |
| 00:07.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: export bu_argv0 |
| 00:15.29 | IriX64 | http://pastebin.com/884885 <===== for the record regressed back to distributed configure.ac and automake-1.9.6 |
| 00:16.16 | louipc | IriX64: try using the latest CVS it should work now |
| 00:16.31 | louipc | with automake 1.10 |
| 00:16.36 | IriX64 | don't do CVS ;) |
| 00:16.46 | IriX64 | btw its installing fine too. |
| 00:17.48 | louipc | man pastebin is lagging |
| 00:17.59 | IriX64 | noticed that. |
| 00:18.41 | IriX64 | errr did you say it *works with 1.10? |
| 00:18.51 | louipc | yes |
| 00:18.59 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 00:19.00 | ibot | from memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites |
| 00:19.02 | IriX64 | the make install part too? |
| 00:20.04 | IriX64 | louipc? |
| 00:20.06 | louipc | yeah it was a problem with an empty variable because automake decided to name it with all caps out of the blue |
| 00:20.40 | louipc | you just need autogen.sh and m4/mkdirp.m4 |
| 00:20.43 | brlcad | why it didn't work when you removed our mkdirp.m4 is still a mystery, but whatever it works |
| 00:21.25 | IriX64 | ty |
| 00:21.46 | IriX64 | takes a good man ;) |
| 00:22.42 | brlcad | to do an evil deed? |
| 00:22.44 | IriX64 | now to play with it, I'll be seriously neglecting the window for a while :) |
| 00:23.05 | IriX64 | s /this/the |
| 00:23.57 | IriX64 | evil has Eve's name in it for a reason. |
| 00:25.47 | IriX64 | 12 minute install time, gotta get a faster toaster. |
| 00:32.27 | ``Erik | paste.lisp.org is teh seckzie |
| 00:44.27 | brlcad | sucky? *duck* |
| 00:50.24 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: searching for a text editor.. needs the path on argv0, not just the name of the binary unless it's going to go hunting for it with bu_which(). |
| 00:51.35 | louipc | brlcad: I think it did work when I moved mkdirp.m4, just an error on my part hence 'oh no wait. ignore me' :P |
| 01:04.16 | brlcad | louipc: ahh, okay.. good to know then, thx |
| 01:04.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/dirname.c: extract bu_dirname() from malloc.c and put it in its own file. should consider using dirname() since it's part of posix (along with rt_basename() -> basename()). |
| 01:06.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add dirname.c to the compilation |
| 01:07.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: remove bu_dirname(), was moved to new file dirname.c. |
| 01:14.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/malloc.c): get rid of the bu_strdup() dead code and comment how it's really an interface macro pass through that provides file:line info when bu debugging is enabled |
| 01:17.38 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add dirname.c to the msvc build files |
| 01:20.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: at least for now.. bu_dirname() instead of dirname() |
| 01:55.27 | IriX64 | why is castle all white and yellow ;) |
| 01:58.55 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/364290 |
| 03:11.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): make sure argv is set to avoid btclsh sourcing errors |
| 03:11.49 | louipc | brlcad includes the latest utah-raster? 3.1b yeah? |
| 03:12.27 | louipc | circa 1996 |
| 03:17.41 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): naming consistency, rename rt_dspline.c sans prefix to dspline.c |
| 03:20.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/dspline.c): rename references of rt_dspline.c to dspline.c |
| 03:24.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: eek, double Lesser Lesser |
| 03:32.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): less Lesser |
| 03:33.11 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_fgets.c: ws |
| 03:38.08 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): naming consistency, rename bu_fgets.c to fgets.c |
| 03:38.57 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: bu_fgets.c was missing from the vc7 build file, but we can just go ahead and add its rename of fgets.c |
| 03:39.14 | brlcad | louipc: yes, plus all patches as of last year |
| 03:39.35 | louipc | oh wow |
| 03:39.51 | brlcad | plus a few build fixes of our own, but nothing critical |
| 03:39.51 | louipc | yeah it looks like a real mess in there |
| 03:41.04 | louipc | I was going to make a packages of some stuff in other/ so I don't have to keep re-compiling it and such |
| 03:41.22 | brlcad | yeah, we also don't quell their compilation warnings (same for most things in src/other) either, so it whines about quite a few things during compilation |
| 03:41.38 | brlcad | some of them are in package systems |
| 03:43.04 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use a filesystem group, these routines have nothing to do with logging |
| 03:44.14 | brlcad | blt and iwidgets are often not available (but hard as hell to detect during configure) as well as openNURBS and tkimg .. everything else can usually be found |
| 03:44.53 | louipc | is a lot of this being developed any more? |
| 03:44.56 | brlcad | configure will automatically disable the compilation of anything it detects by default unless you enable an option that says to compile them |
| 03:45.02 | brlcad | a lot of what? |
| 03:45.08 | louipc | other/ |
| 03:45.11 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 03:46.27 | brlcad | the stable or otherwise dead codes are urtoolkit, awf, jove, libpng, libregex, libtermlib, libutahrle (part of URT), and libz |
| 03:46.57 | brlcad | the others are fairly active, blt, incrTcl, iwidgets, tcl, tk, openNURBS, tkimg |
| 03:47.01 | louipc | ah you split urt into two |
| 03:47.48 | brlcad | yeah, not a great decision in hindsight, but it still has its benefits |
| 03:47.52 | louipc | I downloaded the src from an ftp server and I'm not sure what to do with it hah |
| 03:49.32 | brlcad | oh yeah, we did rewrite their build system too, so it compiles more reliably and cross-platform |
| 03:49.49 | brlcad | but then that goes for just about everything in other |
| 03:50.26 | louipc | ouch |
| 03:51.52 | louipc | I guess I'll start with what you say is still active then |
| 03:52.14 | louipc | thanks |
| 03:53.13 | brlcad | which packaging system? |
| 03:53.26 | louipc | archlinux |
| 03:53.29 | louipc | pacman |
| 03:53.30 | brlcad | ahh, that's right |
| 03:54.58 | brlcad | fwiw, tcl/tk cannot be disabled in the current sources due to run-time path resource lookups that tcl tries to do (in order to use a system tcl), but then that is actually what i'm working on tonight |
| 03:55.20 | brlcad | it's been a long-standing problem with using a system tcl/tk |
| 03:55.42 | louipc | ah neat yeah you said gentoo people and others were complaining about it |
| 03:56.05 | brlcad | that same issue trickles over to incrtcl, iwidgets, and blt, but this fix should take care of them all in one swoop |
| 03:56.14 | brlcad | yeah all of the packaging systems |
| 03:56.39 | brlcad | tk was the biggest problem, as we actually had additions made to their sources that we required |
| 03:57.04 | brlcad | but I've since rewritten and removed the modifications so it can work with a vanilla tk |
| 03:57.58 | louipc | ah |
| 04:02.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:02.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: john continued to rock when he wrote bu_fgets() to allow automatic |
| 04:02.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: cross-platform line handling ala fgets(), which doesn't necessarily handle all |
| 04:02.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: of the various line endings that can be encountered (CR, LF, and CR/LF being the |
| 04:02.50 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: predominant ones). in particular, this fix addresses a bug that was reported on |
| 04:02.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: windows with dxf-g parsing files from another platform incorrectly. note the |
| 04:02.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: fix as it applies to dxf-g at least. |
| 04:04.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fgets.c: whoops, formatting asterick garbage on M-q |
| 04:12.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: should use bu_fgets() instead of fgets() since john's addition makes file for improved cross-platform processing support in general (parsing unix files on Windows, windows files on unix, etc). |
| 04:14.40 | ``Erik | jra++ |
| 04:15.03 | ``Erik | if he wasn't so insanely impressive, I think I'd have moved my office downstairs. |
| 04:15.33 | ``Erik | his gooby sh questions are well worth the "whoa, check me, yo" moments |
| 04:19.46 | brlcad | yeah, he's like a machine |
| 04:20.38 | brlcad | i think this update might just be one helluva collection of "bug fixes" if you consider the inability to parse foreign files a bug |
| 04:21.08 | brlcad | gonna hit almost half the tools, about 150 tools |
| 04:22.27 | brlcad | 250 instances |
| 04:24.10 | Maloeran | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa - This is a very nice board game, seems more interesting than Go |
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| 07:47.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: oop, bu_argv0 requires an argument |
| 07:51.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: |
| 07:51.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: turns out that anything being compiled static with gcc and against openNURBS |
| 07:51.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: needs the -fexceptions flag, that's what was causing the UnwindResume linkage |
| 07:51.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: error. link conv-vg2g (ugh, needs renaming) and euclid_unformat against libbu |
| 07:51.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: (needed for bu_fgets). |
| 07:54.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (9 files): convert to bu_fgets(), which of course adds a libbu dependency if there wasn't one already. this allows processing of foreign text files with different line endings more consistently. |
| 08:05.58 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): revert the introduction of a libbu dependency to adrt, it's somewhat inconsequential value added just to get bu_getopt processing compared to the benefit of it still compiling stand-alone if needed. |
| 08:10.52 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: heh, -lm is not a CFLAG, add it to LIBADD instead using LIBM (still need to get adrt's subconfigure working cleanly). |
| 08:20.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (64 files in 22 dirs): |
| 08:20.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: update all usages of fgets() to instead use john's swanktastic bu_fgets() that |
| 08:20.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: behaves as one would generally want regardless of the line ending type of the |
| 08:20.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: compilation platform or of the input files. bu_fgets() responds to input files |
| 08:20.19 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: that use CR (usually old mac), LF (usually unix, new mac), or CR/LF (usually |
| 08:20.21 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: windows) for the line ending so now these file do too effectivley squashing |
| 08:20.23 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: buggish/bad behavior. |
| 08:32.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 08:32.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: john's bu_fgets() fun and my update to the various tools that needed it ends up |
| 08:32.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: improved the end-of-line (EOL) processing in about 70+ tools. basically any |
| 08:32.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: command that read in a text file using fgets(). this fix is particularly |
| 08:32.37 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: relevant for running our tools on windows where data files are frequently |
| 08:32.39 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: migrated from the unix/linux/max side without a line-ending conversion. |
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| 08:56.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 08:56.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: bu_getprogname seems to be behaving now, so use it for selection of the |
| 08:56.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: executable name unless it does return null for some reason -- then default back |
| 08:56.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: to just 'mged'. try (again?) to set auto_path before Tcl_Init since we need to |
| 08:56.25 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: set up auto_path before init so the scripts, including init.tcl, can be found. |
| 08:58.31 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: search for tcl/tk 8.5 too (we're upgrading to it now) |
| 09:05.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: add support for the newer tk 8.5 Tk_PhotoExpand and Tk_PhotoPutBlock functions that now expect an interp parameter, but retain compilation functionality on previous versions too |
| 09:07.49 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltNsUtil.h: comment out a couple function declarations that are apparently declared, at least in 8.5 though they're different/conflicting |
| 09:10.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itcl_util.c: the specified internal assumptions being made by blt don't hold with tcl 8.5 (in particular the set macro doesn't exist), so just comment out that section of code. |
| 09:17.43 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: add missing dependency on Tcl |
| 09:20.07 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: create an openNURBS noinst library so that we can fully resolve librtserver if brep support is enabled |
| 09:22.05 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: conditionally include opennurbs into libbrlcad (via the new noinst library) so that we can fully resolve all librt symbols |
| 09:30.42 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/extern.h nirt/showshot.c): need bu.h for bu_fgets() |
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| 16:28.29 | Maloeran | Hum. I'm sorry to bother you with that, I wanted to familiarize myself with SURVICE's archer, what is this : Error in startup script: couldn't load file "/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so": /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so: undefined symbol: png_read_destroy ? |
| 16:31.40 | Maloeran | Assuming that's why ./archer gives me a nice white X window |
| 16:37.10 | Maloeran | Actually, that white window is bwish |
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| 17:25.15 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: libpng.txt was moved to libpng-1.2.16.txt |
| 17:26.32 | Maloeran | Erik, any tips about running Archer? |
| 17:27.13 | ``Erik | um |
| 17:27.14 | ``Erik | sure |
| 17:27.15 | ``Erik | use windows |
| 17:27.36 | Maloeran | It's supposed to run on Linux, is it not? |
| 17:28.26 | ``Erik | um, mark said that it should, but windows is their dev platform *shrug* the error you're getting might be fixed by preloading libpng.so? *shrug* |
| 17:28.43 | ``Erik | LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libpng.so ./archer |
| 17:29.05 | Maloeran | Error remains |
| 17:29.10 | ``Erik | (or making tkimg.so link to libpng) |
| 17:29.32 | ``Erik | does your libpng have that symbol? ... |
| 17:30.21 | Maloeran | Doesn't seem to! |
| 17:31.05 | Maloeran | Upgrading libpng from 1.2.12-r1 to 1.2.13 though that's not likely to help |
| 17:31.08 | ``Erik | hm, upgrade it? |
| 17:31.41 | ``Erik | 1.2.13? wow, how ancient :D 1.2.16 is included in BRL-CAD these days... |
| 17:37.43 | brlcad | Maloeran: it does run on linux, but the version of archer in CVS hasn't been "fixed" to work out of the box |
| 17:38.44 | Maloeran | Oh. I suppose there's no quick and easy fix available? |
| 17:38.45 | brlcad | tkimg plugin is failing to load because of that png symbol is a linker issue in tkimg (or version problem with libpng) |
| 17:39.01 | brlcad | quick and easy if you're familiar with archer, sure ;) |
| 17:40.20 | brlcad | what does ldd on /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so say regarding libpng? |
| 17:41.59 | Maloeran | Linked to libpng12.so.0 |
| 17:44.20 | Maloeran | Same problem with 1.2.15, last version of libpng in Gentoo package tree |
| 17:46.33 | Maloeran | Same problem with latest libpng CVS |
| 17:47.37 | ``Erik | $ nm -D /usr/local/lib/libpng.so | grep png_read_destroy |
| 17:47.37 | ``Erik | 00000000000098f0 T png_read_destroy |
| 17:48.23 | ``Erik | hum |
| 17:48.37 | ``Erik | is that because linux is obviously superior? :D *duck* |
| 17:49.27 | louipc | Maloeran: not gentoo!? |
| 17:49.27 | ``Erik | the symbol is there on rhat |
| 17:49.40 | ``Erik | and suse |
| 17:50.57 | Maloeran | http://rafb.net/p/GZGe0y78.html - Look, I'm not dreaming |
| 17:51.01 | ``Erik | and debian... hehehe.... |
| 17:51.13 | ``Erik | it's too bad funroll-loops.org doesn't seem to be responding... O:-) |
| 17:51.24 | louipc | :P |
| 17:51.59 | brlcad | Maloeran: you can relink tkimg.so with static libpng and if you really do have a sufficient version, it should resolve |
| 17:55.37 | louipc | I don't have that symbol either |
| 17:55.37 | Maloeran | louipc, what I basically want is a Linux from scratch, except... with some package management system, and Gentoo fulfills that |
| 17:55.57 | ``Erik | huh, it's not an optional symbol in 1.2.16... it's a basic part of cleaning up after you read an image O.o |
| 17:57.16 | louipc | Maloeran: have you tried archlinux? It's a lot less compiling but you can custom compile packages as well |
| 17:57.36 | brlcad | yeah, I don't see how you can optionally compile it out either with one of the PNG_* flags |
| 17:57.56 | louipc | the package management system is a lot more straight forward too |
| 17:58.01 | Maloeran | It's not really about packages, it's about the whole set up and scripts. I don't want a distribution to force its maze of scripts on me |
| 17:58.19 | ``Erik | ssoooooo cut their scripts out of the loop? |
| 17:58.37 | brlcad | oh, wait.. there is a overall flag.. PNG_READ_SUPPORTED .. if they compiled with that off, it leaves out all of the routines |
| 17:58.45 | brlcad | including png_read_destroy |
| 17:58.50 | Maloeran | It's tricky, it's often a huge mess. I prefer to start with a clean distribution like Gentoo |
| 18:00.57 | louipc | I've got png_read_end *image *info *png *row *rows *update_info |
| 18:01.03 | louipc | no destroy :( |
| 18:01.28 | Maloeran | Exactly |
| 18:03.12 | brlcad | Maloeran: it could also be a bad assumption in tkimg -- it has a stubs lookup table for png_read_destroy -- but it doesn'tactually use the function |
| 18:03.50 | brlcad | you could just remove it from src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtclDecls.h and pngtclDeclsMask.h |
| 18:04.16 | brlcad | and src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtclStubInit.c |
| 18:08.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: ADRT interface |
| 18:09.22 | ``Erik | fek, it's catching them now |
| 18:10.13 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: the comparison engine |
| 18:12.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: move the display back to the end, so the nmg_triangulate spew doesn't obfuscate the results |
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| 18:24.07 | Maloeran | Sorry, was away for a bit. png_write_destroy undefined as well, hacking some more |
| 18:25.44 | Maloeran | Ah finally, there we go, thanks |
| 18:27.10 | Maloeran | It works until "Error, can't find package blt", that is. |
| 18:27.23 | ``Erik | so make it a sandwich, bitch |
| 18:28.02 | ``Erik | blt == bacon lettuce tomato |
| 18:28.03 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:34.13 | Maloeran | Okay, I'll give up on Archer for now. Mark wanted to know about integrating RF in it |
| 18:38.48 | IriX64_ | Maloeran? windows archer or *nix archer? |
| 18:39.51 | Maloeran | Linux archer of course |
| 18:39.59 | IriX64_ | ty |
| 18:50.49 | IriX64 | goof that i am sigh ... |
| 18:53.24 | ``Erik | heh, it's a bit of a walk |
| 18:54.56 | IriX64 | any wild beasten would disagree with me though :) |
| 18:56.59 | IriX64 | ``Erik promptly roars with hunger. |
| 18:57.16 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.32 | IriX64 | not following? |
| 18:58.02 | ``Erik | and that's why drugs are bad. |
| 18:58.41 | IriX64 | heh you paint with a broadsword there you know that. |
| 18:59.21 | louipc | wide brush? |
| 18:59.57 | IriX64 | very |
| 19:17.11 | Maloeran | brlcad, would it be possible for you to quickly put me on the right track to solve this "Error, can't find package blt"? |
| 19:17.38 | ``Erik | sounds like a tcl path error |
| 19:17.49 | ``Erik | when you built brlcad, did it try to use the system tcl? |
| 19:18.15 | Maloeran | I have absolutely no idea, plain standard ./configure --prefix=/usr |
| 19:18.31 | ``Erik | hm, in src/other/libtcl, do you see libtcl_nil.la ? |
| 19:19.07 | IriX64 | try /prefix=/usr/brlcad. |
| 19:19.14 | IriX64 | err -- |
| 19:19.29 | Maloeran | Yes, it's there |
| 19:19.41 | Maloeran | Err nevermind, not the _nil part |
| 19:20.25 | ``Erik | hm, just libtcl.la ? |
| 19:20.39 | Maloeran | Correct |
| 19:20.48 | Maloeran | And libctcl8.4.la |
| 19:21.15 | ``Erik | ok, so it did build the tcl lib, hum |
| 19:21.29 | louipc | hm |
| 19:21.41 | ``Erik | ok, did src/other/blt get installed? |
| 19:21.59 | Maloeran | Seems to be compiled and installed, yes |
| 19:22.11 | ``Erik | tryyyyy LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/brlcad/lib ? |
| 19:23.16 | Maloeran | Problem remains |
| 19:23.28 | ``Erik | ('cept it sounds like it's not finding the blt tcl index thingymajigger) |
| 19:23.41 | Maloeran | It occurs whenever I try to load or create a .g file |
| 19:25.49 | ``Erik | in... mged? or archer? |
| 19:25.59 | Maloeran | Archer |
| 19:49.27 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365207 <this is what archer says here Maloeran. |
| 20:00.33 | Maloeran | Cool, looks worse than mine :) |
| 20:08.46 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/Makefile.am: required images that need installed... |
| 20:09.00 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (Makefile.am include/Makefile.am): colorquant.h was moved to src/other/libutahrle/include/. |
| 20:09.33 | ``Erik | hm, seems to work fine for me |
| 20:09.36 | ``Erik | kinda neat |
| 20:14.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): dependancy info |
| 20:16.39 | Maloeran | Ah well, booting the win98 Pentium 2 |
| 20:16.41 | ``Erik | does mged work? |
| 20:17.28 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 20:17.54 | Maloeran | Or at least I think so, I don't know how to do anything with it.. but files load :} |
| 20:18.41 | ``Erik | um, in the command window, after you've opened a .g file, type "tops", then pick something interesting from that list and type "e <something>" |
| 20:19.13 | ``Erik | then you should be able to do mouse crap in the view window, uh, middle click I think is to rotate |
| 20:19.45 | Maloeran | Yup, it renders |
| 20:20.55 | Maloeran | Holy... graal, the raytrace is slow! :) My poor laptop |
| 20:21.00 | ``Erik | what about ummmm, uninstall, clean, reconfigure with --enable-almost-everything and do the build/install and see if that "fixes" it? |
| 20:23.00 | Maloeran | 153 seconds to shoot 2 million rays |
| 20:23.19 | Maloeran | All right, I'll try that switch |
| 20:23.36 | Maloeran | mged seems to have froze after the render completed |
| 20:23.53 | ``Erik | froze? hrm, odd |
| 20:24.45 | brlcad | Maloeran: default compile is non-optimized on top of it |
| 20:24.46 | Maloeran | The GUI was just made of plain gray windows |
| 20:25.29 | brlcad | mged's gui is non-optimal in many regards, it's not meant to be impressive |
| 20:26.11 | brlcad | if you recompile, unless you need to debug, add --enable-optimized too |
| 20:26.13 | Maloeran | No, I mean the mged windows were just of a filled plain gray instead of the usual widget elements |
| 20:26.36 | brlcad | sounds like it's waiting for something |
| 20:26.49 | brlcad | a dialog, or it's frozen on a bug, hard to say -- don't know what you did |
| 20:26.52 | ``Erik | yeah, hurry up and click the button that's not drawing... no, not that one!!! |
| 20:26.53 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:27.20 | brlcad | ooh |
| 20:27.21 | Maloeran | I clicked on "raytrace" multiple times, then closed that dialog window after the render, and it went grey |
| 20:27.42 | Maloeran | Multiple times because I thought it wasn't working, it hadn't filled a handful of lines yet |
| 20:27.59 | brlcad | ahh, you probably provoked a bug |
| 20:28.06 | brlcad | and that |
| 20:28.13 | brlcad | do a killall rt on the command line |
| 20:28.28 | brlcad | or run "rtabort" if you can type into the command window |
| 20:29.12 | Maloeran | The command window was gone. I just did killall -9 |
| 20:30.49 | brlcad | did it restore or still stuck? |
| 20:31.32 | brlcad | if the command window gets too much data being dumped too quickly to it, there is a bug where it'll get stuck in a Tcl event handler loop, hanging mged |
| 20:32.22 | ``Erik | trying to see if other bits and chunks of the install work... |
| 20:32.23 | Maloeran | That might be what happened. I'm sorry I didn't wait very long, I just did killall -9 |
| 20:32.40 | brlcad | iirc, archer specifically tries to load blt directly, not using the auto_path search -- so you might have to tweak the load-line |
| 20:34.11 | brlcad | bob didn't make it robust cross-platform-wise, he got it working and moved on .. needed to produce another release for a different platform, made a few tweaks, and moved on |
| 20:35.16 | brlcad | sorta the multi-os makefile approach actually .. just that he's only fuddled with 2 of them so far and they have hard-coded assumptions about the compiler sort of setup |
| 20:35.19 | brlcad | ;) |
| 20:35.21 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) | |
| 20:35.39 | brlcad | not literally of course, it's all tcl foo |
| 20:37.06 | ``Erik | dan seems to be having issues today o.O |
| 20:46.36 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: no g_brep.cpp here... |
| 20:49.56 | ``Erik | oh, brlcad, I put those 3 fast linux machines into the perfmon mix |
| 20:50.20 | ``Erik | so now instead of getting excel spreadsheets saying they're going untouched, we can look at a graph of how untouched they are :D |
| 21:12.39 | Maloeran | --enable-almost-everything fixed the tkimg library issue, but it still throws errors about BLT |
| 21:16.11 | Maloeran | 14 seconds for 750000 rays, a bit better |
| 21:19.07 | Maloeran | Bug is reproductible. Click 20 times on "raytrace", and when all of them have completed or so I assume, processor usage drop back to zero and the mged gui freezes |
| 21:19.21 | Maloeran | I understand one isn't supposed to do that :) |
| 21:19.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:20.16 | ``Erik | now try uninstalling, make clean, then configure with --enable-optimized :D |
| 21:20.21 | Maloeran | I did that |
| 21:20.25 | ``Erik | okie |
| 21:20.34 | ``Erik | slightly less horrible *shrug* |
| 21:21.24 | Maloeran | I'm sure its rays are far more accurate than mine :) |
| 21:21.37 | ``Erik | iiiinteresting, I keep getting brlcad_config.h files with exactly one line... :/ |
| 21:24.20 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/brlcad-rt-freeze.png - Just in case there's any doubt about what I mean |
| 21:27.58 | brlcad | Maloeran: hmmm. that might actually be a different issue |
| 21:30.34 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.6) | |
| 21:52.15 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782827.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:56.20 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged in console mode goes into an inf loop if you try to read from stdin using Tcl routines (e.g. read stdin, fgets stdin blah).; mged in GUI mode rejects reads on stdin |
| 21:56.21 | louipc | lol |
| 21:58.00 | Maloeran | Is that the bug? I would have assumed an infinite loop to consume some cpu time, it was more deadlocked |
| 21:58.28 | brlcad | Maloeran: no, different issue altogether |
| 21:58.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/prj_add.tcl: header and ws |
| 22:01.55 | brlcad | there are lots of similarly "unforgiving" bugs that can occur when you do bad things that are considered bad use |
| 22:02.12 | brlcad | i don't generally fix them as time is being put towards the new interface instead |
| 22:02.18 | brlcad | i just document them as needed |
| 22:05.01 | brlcad | and fix or work-around if they're non-triivial or I'm needing some diversion |
| 22:27.56 | Maloeran | *nods* Sean, where in the brlcad source should I look for the conversion from solid modelling to triangles? |
| 22:32.39 | brlcad | depends on the purpose, but mostly in the converters section, src/conv, if you are doing a data conversion |
| 22:34.58 | Maloeran | I would like to see how complex it would be to make triangles face the proper way, build better meshes for raytracing ( less long thin triangles ), and perhaps fix the gaps between connected surfaces. It's the right place? |
| 22:35.39 | brlcad | as a starting point, yes |
| 22:36.02 | brlcad | that expands into src/librt .. a vast collection of nmg_* files and routines |
| 22:36.26 | brlcad | i can explain the overall process if you like |
| 22:36.37 | brlcad | from a high level, if it'd help |
| 22:37.03 | Maloeran | It could help, thanks. These files of 236kb are a bit intimidating |
| 22:38.15 | Maloeran | I think there might be several issues with the triangulation process. Do you consider the code is good enough to work from there, or a rewrite might be preferable? |
| 22:38.35 | brlcad | depends on a lot of factors |
| 22:38.53 | brlcad | it's not an easy problem at all, with the constraint of being topologically preserving |
| 22:38.58 | brlcad | and maintaining closure |
| 22:39.25 | Maloeran | Indeed, but I'm afraid any major changes to such a big piece of code might be more trouble than even rewriting.. |
| 22:39.27 | brlcad | it's slightly easier to just get triangles, but even that requires effort -- basically the evaluation of the boolean |
| 22:39.50 | brlcad | the code actually isn't that bad -- the approach is sound |
| 22:39.53 | Maloeran | Good to hear |
| 22:40.04 | brlcad | the bad news is that it lacks horribly in robustness |
| 22:40.20 | Maloeran | Yes, I noticed that... |
| 22:40.21 | brlcad | it doesn't manage propagate tolerance control very well |
| 22:40.33 | brlcad | and doesn't have good failure checking/recovery |
| 22:41.15 | brlcad | the algorithmic approach, however, is one of the recommended ways to go to maintain a solid model |
| 22:41.57 | Maloeran | I think that if a good and very fast solid modelling -> triangles conversion were possible, views could be raytraced interactively during the modelling |
| 22:41.58 | brlcad | we might actually have a rewrite in our laps already with openNURBS .. but that requires additional effort to integrate with to determine how good they tessellate |
| 22:42.28 | brlcad | that they could (and opengl becomes usable too) |
| 22:43.18 | brlcad | i was actually thinking of having your engine serve as that kind of real-time interface renderer in the new modeler if it were ever integrated |
| 22:43.21 | Maloeran | I think that would be really nice, and it would put some very-fast-but-not-so-accurate raytracer to good use |
| 22:43.36 | brlcad | be able to toggle between opengl, raytraced, wireframe, etc |
| 22:43.41 | Maloeran | Exactly |
| 22:44.18 | brlcad | so back to the crux of the problem to solve is the evaluation of the implicit solids and csg booleans (two separate problems) |
| 22:44.46 | brlcad | *currently*, the nmg code in librt does the following: |
| 22:45.40 | brlcad | 1) it walks a given csg hierarchy all the way down to the primitive level |
| 22:46.03 | brlcad | 2) it facetizes each primitive according to tessellation/tolerance/size criteria |
| 22:46.41 | brlcad | 3) it walks back up the csg hierarchy combining the facetized collections according to the CSG operations encountered |
| 22:46.54 | Maloeran | I'm not sure I would facetize before extruding volumes and so on... but please continue |
| 22:47.18 | brlcad | yes, that's a very good observation |
| 22:47.58 | brlcad | the bulk of the effort happens in the "combining the facetized collections" as that is the evaluation of the boolean, comparing polygon sets against polygon sets |
| 22:48.09 | brlcad | the implicits were evaluated in step 2 |
| 22:48.58 | Maloeran | Some problems, like gaps, are impossible to solve without swapping 2) and 3) |
| 22:49.40 | brlcad | for 3) to evaluate the CSG operations, it walks over all edges, of all loops, of all faces, of all surfaces, of all regions .. doing the pairwise comparison -- determines which polygons are inside or outside and depending on the operator, throws away those fully in/out as needed |
| 22:49.52 | brlcad | yes, very true |
| 22:50.04 | brlcad | well, you can guarantee no gaps |
| 22:50.12 | brlcad | but you can't guarantee that you'll find a solution |
| 22:50.23 | Maloeran | Eheh, okay :) |
| 22:50.32 | brlcad | it does guarantee no gaps, that is the nature of the nmg structure of walking edges, loops, faces, etc |
| 22:51.09 | Maloeran | Does it? The triangulated truck I was given has clear gaps between adjacent primitives |
| 22:51.21 | Maloeran | ( and it's not a raytracing artifact ) |
| 22:52.21 | brlcad | and when you have two spheres that are intersecting and being union'd together, for example, you will have two polygon datasets to start with, it computes which triangles are fully inside the other and throws them away, then computes where exactly the triangles intersect and correctly trims them and fuses the two sets together at a reasonable seam |
| 22:53.43 | brlcad | maybe I should say the structure "can" and is supposed to -- barring any bugs of course. there are other ways to extract polygons that will drop the solid model criteria, especially if it gets to solutions it cannot resolve |
| 22:54.50 | brlcad | for solid models, which are the predominant concern, it's supposed to, but then when we're going to polygons, it's usually for a non-solid model purpose so it is sometimes relaxed -- don't know the detail of how the truck was generated specifically (and it still could just be a bug regarless) |
| 22:55.24 | Maloeran | All right, so gaps don't normally occur. That's reassuring |
| 22:56.01 | brlcad | retaining knowledge of the actual surface/primitive toplogy is frankly a better way to go (and perhaps even an easier implementation) |
| 22:56.15 | Maloeran | Yes, I think so too |
| 22:56.21 | brlcad | but still requires a conversion from implicit form, to some explicit form |
| 22:56.23 | Maloeran | How efficient and optimized is the current code? |
| 22:56.26 | brlcad | just not triangles |
| 22:56.46 | brlcad | heh, nmg facetization? it's not optimized |
| 22:57.20 | brlcad | it's hard enough to get it working "correctly" regardless of the computational constraint |
| 22:57.42 | Maloeran | Stupid question : where can I see the list of all csg primitives used/known by the software? |
| 22:58.31 | brlcad | they're all in src/librt/g_*.c |
| 22:58.39 | brlcad | visually, here's "most" of them: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png |
| 22:59.17 | brlcad | there are some details missing, that picture is just a simplification, and leaves some of the more complex/experimental primitives out |
| 22:59.19 | Maloeran | Hrmph, quite a few of them |
| 23:00.22 | louipc | how's the extrude further represented? |
| 23:00.37 | brlcad | all of them, except perhaps the bot/ars (i.e. triangles), dsp (i.e. height field), extrude/sketch, and bitmap primtiives are stored and usually processed in implicit form |
| 23:01.09 | brlcad | louipc: what do you mean? |
| 23:01.25 | brlcad | an extrude object is coupled to some sketch object |
| 23:01.45 | brlcad | sketches are pretty flexible/arbitrary collections of points, lines, arcs, loops, etc |
| 23:02.47 | louipc | ah |
| 23:02.52 | brlcad | i think extrude would probably be considered a hybrid, it's actually evaluated in a semi-implicit form, though the sketch is clearly an explicit representation |
| 23:03.56 | brlcad | extrusions are basically a direction vector and distance off of a sketch along with ratio scaling vectors |
| 23:05.11 | brlcad | Maloeran: the *plan* so far, assuming that this openNURBS business works out well (and it's going great so far, Jason's making nice progress) is to implement a "describe yourself in explicit spline surface form" for all primitives |
| 23:06.48 | brlcad | all primitives already have various describe functions -- describe in implicit form, describe in explicit wireframe form, describe as serialized on-disk form, describe as textual values, etc |
| 23:07.09 | Maloeran | Right, sounds like a good step towards a robust triangulation |
| 23:07.16 | brlcad | there's a stub in there (that a couple of the major primitives already implement) for describing in brep/spline surface form |
| 23:07.38 | Maloeran | I wonder though if it might not be slower than just working from the primitive equations, for most of them |
| 23:07.42 | brlcad | with that implemented, the next step would be to implement the boolean evaluation of brep against brep |
| 23:08.25 | brlcad | once you have an evaluated boolean-free brep, triangulation is trivial and can usually be done in real-time |
| 23:09.07 | brlcad | what do you mean by "work from the primitive equations"? which equation? |
| 23:09.40 | Maloeran | Of the csg primitives rather than splines |
| 23:11.06 | brlcad | i think i'm still not following what "it" was in "if it might not be slower" |
| 23:11.40 | brlcad | the big question is how hard and computationally intensive is it to evaluate brep against brep, evaluating the boolean |
| 23:12.36 | brlcad | my feel is that will be "reasonably fast" as in a couple seconds for an object with dozens to hundreds of primitives |
| 23:12.57 | brlcad | tessellation would be practically instantaneous |
| 23:13.16 | Maloeran | Yes... but that doesn't sound fast enough for interactive use, during the modelling process |
| 23:13.35 | brlcad | evaluation of the boolean when they are triangle vs triangle is what we have now with the nmg conversion process |
| 23:13.52 | brlcad | evaluation of the boolean when they are implicit against implicit is what we have now with librt |
| 23:14.27 | brlcad | actually, it generally is fast enough, because that's the time to convert something all-out |
| 23:14.42 | brlcad | that conversion can be hidden in many places (during file load for example) |
| 23:15.11 | brlcad | during editing, it's pretty much instantaneous evaluation as you're only evaluating small deltas |
| 23:15.23 | Maloeran | *nods* It's just less practical to stall the rendering for a couple seconds every time the user makes a change, though you could only rebuild the affected region |
| 23:15.28 | Maloeran | All right, great |
| 23:15.39 | brlcad | it's actually the approach most commercial cad systems take that use BREP as their primary representation |
| 23:15.53 | brlcad | and you do end up pausing on large models while it evaluates every now and then |
| 23:16.05 | Maloeran | Sounds very nice then. The only problem I'm seeing is not having triangles face the proper way, which should be really easy to fix |
| 23:20.21 | Maloeran | That and efficiency perhaps. Would you mind some #ifdef __SSE__ in that code? ;) |
| 23:21.23 | brlcad | depends on a lot of factors, but in general not really a problem so long as there's an alternative |
| 23:22.10 | brlcad | the bigger issue would be tolerance, there's entire classes of cases where even double floating point isn't enough |
| 23:22.28 | Maloeran | Oh? I wouldn't have expected that |
| 23:22.56 | brlcad | yeah, that's one of the bigger problems some of the CAD systems deal with to varying degrees of success/failure |
| 23:23.35 | brlcad | you know what a tapered blend is, yes? |
| 23:23.52 | Maloeran | Sorry, I don't |
| 23:25.19 | Maloeran | A reasonably fast fixed 128 or 256 bits data type to handle these cases wouldn't be too much trouble to write, perhaps to integrate in the code though |
| 23:25.59 | Maloeran | ( With SSE, a home-made 128 bits floating point format doesn't look so bad ) |
| 23:26.03 | brlcad | hmm, better example then.. say you have a hand full of peanut butter and you smear it out across a table making a sloping ramp that becomes rather minutely thin |
| 23:26.24 | Maloeran | That I can follow :) |
| 23:26.30 | brlcad | the issue becomes how and where you terminate the ramp |
| 23:27.02 | Maloeran | I see, okay |
| 23:27.43 | brlcad | it might be a smear that is mathematically something like |||||\\\~~~~~,,,,..... |
| 23:27.44 | brlcad | the question is how many dots |
| 23:27.44 | Maloeran | I'm thinking, we really could make a 128 bits floating point data type in SSE that would be just a bit slower than double |
| 23:27.53 | brlcad | even with double on most cases, you cannot go out as far as you need to without truncating the ramp prematurely |
| 23:28.04 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 23:28.15 | brlcad | else you end up with something mathematically just a plane .. and that's no longer a solid model |
| 23:28.24 | Maloeran | Understood |
| 23:28.38 | brlcad | that particular case actually happens a lot in real engineering models |
| 23:29.03 | brlcad | solder between joints, tapered blends, various materials combining together, etc |
| 23:29.06 | Maloeran | If these cases can be identified before or when we encounter them, a home-made floating point format could be a great solution |
| 23:29.12 | brlcad | there are others, but that's the easiest to describe |
| 23:30.07 | brlcad | part of the problem is that they are frankly hard as hell to identify and even worse to detect them |
| 23:30.25 | Maloeran | Oops okay, that's a problem |
| 23:30.39 | brlcad | because you already have code asking questions like "are theses two surfaces cojoined".. are they the same, are they just "really close", etc |
| 23:31.09 | brlcad | if you assume just really close, then you lose solid model connectivity, introduce gaps, etc |
| 23:31.43 | brlcad | if you assume they're not, then there similarly isn't a problem of gaps and such, but you truncate and create non-faithful geometry |
| 23:31.48 | Maloeran | Indeed |
| 23:32.11 | brlcad | you sort of need to know the modelers intent during the modeling process |
| 23:32.23 | brlcad | which would be great to have of course... but you rarely have that :) |
| 23:32.53 | brlcad | that's where unigraphics and solidworks start earning their pricetags |
| 23:32.58 | Maloeran | Hum. I really thought the interface would allow modellers to make their intend clear |
| 23:33.09 | Maloeran | At least it was when I did Autocad |
| 23:33.43 | brlcad | initially you have it, after almost any conversion except sometimes with STEP, all that is lost |
| 23:34.18 | brlcad | and most real modeling is done by teams and/or between companies/groups and often using different cad systems |
| 23:35.15 | brlcad | iges is/was the predominant cad exchange format, and it didn't retain this sort of intent modeling, just connectivity if you were lucky, but sometimes you'd lose even that |
| 23:35.16 | Maloeran | Right, so intents on connectivity are lost and the code falls back on... guesses |
| 23:35.41 | brlcad | and then all bets are off, normals get reverse, you might get cracks, etc ;) |
| 23:36.48 | brlcad | for as painful and crappy as NMGs are in librt, they're actually on par with a lot of cad systems for that class of conversion, sometimes it's even better |
| 23:37.16 | brlcad | but the approach is fundamentally limited given you loose actual surface/intersection information really early on during implicit evaluation |
| 23:37.51 | Maloeran | If it's really a problem that numerical precision can solve... I'm thinking about some hack coming from my overview of the gcc code |
| 23:38.01 | brlcad | it then spends 80-99% of the time evaluating sets of N^3 problems |
| 23:38.18 | Maloeran | We could replace the built-in fpu emulation code with floats and doubles of 128 and 256 bits |
| 00:00.20 | Maloeran | I think I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any patch to replace the usual fp math with higher precision calculations. It might mess up file and network I/O, but that can be more easily solved than rewriting code to use GMP |
| 00:23.08 | brlcad | hem, i actually think rewriting the code to use gmp would be easier :) |
| 00:23.26 | brlcad | and gmp already uses fpu to accelerate where it can |
| 00:35.31 | ``Erik | neat http://ulysses.jpl.nasa.gov/ |
| 00:37.40 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/Makefile.am: pngtcl needs the zlib cppflags too |
| 00:38.29 | *** join/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:38.59 | *** join/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:39.38 | brlcad | funky |
| 00:40.14 | ``Erik | peer kicked the shit outta you, yo! |
| 00:40.50 | tofu_ | apparently |
| 00:40.53 | brlcad | indeed |
| 00:41.19 | brlcad | i think a router reset at ze lab |
| 00:41.38 | ``Erik | screen is mighty |
| 00:41.40 | brlcad | or at least along the path to my isp |
| 00:41.53 | brlcad | screen r0xers by b0xers |
| 00:42.10 | *** part/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:42.38 | brlcad | hm |
| 00:43.15 | ``Erik | and the rc config for it is so trivial, I mean, check out how simple and obvious this is... |
| 00:43.16 | ``Erik | hardstatus alwayslastline "%{b}[ %{B}%H %{b}][ %{w}%?%-Lw%?%{b}(%{W}%n*%f %t%?(%u)%?%{b})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{b}][%{B} %d/%m %{W}%C%a %{b}]" |
| 00:43.23 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 00:44.01 | Maloeran | That's worse than Itanium assembly |
| 00:44.05 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 00:44.13 | brlcad | pass that to your brainfuck compiler, see what happens |
| 00:44.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:44.45 | ``Erik | *look* |
| 00:44.47 | brlcad | looks like apache log syntax actually |
| 00:44.52 | ``Erik | there're no i/o commands |
| 00:45.01 | ``Erik | the loops are closed, so it'd be legit |
| 00:45.20 | ``Erik | I think it'd reduce to [][-][] |
| 00:45.57 | ``Erik | which'd be something like {char n=0; while(--n);} |
| 00:47.21 | Maloeran | And you won't even optimize that to avoid waiting for 'n' to loop over its numerical range? Tsk |
| 00:47.27 | ``Erik | (the optimization pass in my compiler is very very trivial right now...) |
| 00:47.46 | ``Erik | now the generic partial evaluation engine I want to put in there would actually reduce it to an empty program, I THINK |
| 00:48.49 | ``Erik | right now it compiles down to |
| 00:48.50 | ``Erik | while(*ptr){}while(*ptr){--*ptr;++*ptr;}while(*ptr){} |
| 00:49.01 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 00:49.34 | ``Erik | at least the asm is readable O:-) |
| 00:49.52 | Maloeran | I think you should tackle structured knowledge systems for AI with me instead, it's fun too |
| 00:50.17 | ``Erik | but it sounds like you're trying to reinvent 50's style ai, dude :D |
| 00:50.26 | ``Erik | take an AI course at the local uni or something O.o |
| 00:51.32 | Maloeran | I think you might have missed an aspect when I tried to explain... It doesn't seek rational solutions and output errors when conflicts occur |
| 00:51.50 | ``Erik | ok, so it's a fuzzy expert system |
| 00:52.07 | Maloeran | It's all probability based, the network of relation between entities evolve as to try to resolve any conflicting information, somehow |
| 00:52.27 | ``Erik | so 60's ai |
| 00:52.49 | ``Erik | ed was working out some probability algebra that was interesting looking a bit ago o.O |
| 00:52.49 | Maloeran | It learns by itself from any logical statements being fed to it, it isn't an "expert system" |
| 00:53.46 | Maloeran | And that's just the interface, it grows new "entities" ( nodes ) which aren't mapped to units it's being fed, as part of the pseudo-reasonning network |
| 00:54.02 | ``Erik | so just like the 70's game "animal" |
| 00:54.22 | ``Erik | 'game'... *cough*... virus... :) |
| 00:55.24 | ``Erik | it was a program that spread itself to new systems and played a game of 20 questions |
| 00:55.39 | Maloeran | I think humans think by previously assimilated relations between entities, with many fuzzy pseudo-entities emerging during the learning process |
| 00:55.40 | ``Erik | and new information was put into the program when it was stumped, which also spread |
| 00:55.52 | Maloeran | And errors, erroneous reasoning leads to creativity |
| 00:56.31 | Maloeran | Oh well, you aren't interested, I got it :) |
| 00:57.01 | ``Erik | seriously, take a good ai class, see how you feel about it after that :) |
| 00:57.15 | Maloeran | I read everything you pasted to me about AI so far |
| 00:57.33 | ``Erik | hm, I pasted very very old articles focused on a very specific problem |
| 00:58.00 | ``Erik | a class will go over a broad range of approaches and applications quickly |
| 00:58.03 | Maloeran | Yes, apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm not |
| 00:59.10 | ``Erik | <-- still thinks you're taking a pretty classic and well known approach... mebbe is not understanding you very well *shrug* |
| 00:59.54 | Maloeran | Perhaps I am, I have no idea, just not the classic approachs you pasted so far |
| 01:00.14 | ``Erik | http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/animalsrc.html |
| 01:02.28 | Maloeran | Okay, I don't think I'll be reading that assembly... :) but surely it has nothing in common with the approach above |
| 01:02.54 | Maloeran | It's designed to "understand" relations between entities to be able to put any information, statement or question within its known context |
| 01:03.56 | Maloeran | And it doesn't do that like these "expert systems", its knowledge base grows as an abitrary network of nodes, which are traversed accordingly to probabilities |
| 01:04.44 | Maloeran | Statements are assimilated trying to minimize conflicts, and questions are answered by the paths guided by probabilities ( answers may vary if re-asked ) |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: leave a note that it's known that running any of the various mged commands (e.g. |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: clicking the raytrace button many times quickly, or running rtarea on a large |
| 01:05.45 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: model) that output a lot of data will hang mged (idle cpu utilization) |
| 01:07.16 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 01:14.30 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.172.177) | |
| 01:19.20 | Maloeran | Nice page Erik, amusing to read about these mainframes able to access one 36 bits word every 8 microseconds |
| 01:23.42 | Maloeran | Ah, or the "Fire" indicator on their massive printer, next to a "Extinguish" button! |
| 01:24.30 | ``Erik | computers are cool like that |
| 01:25.30 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:28.00 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365550 <=== we were comparing numbers ``Erik. |
| 01:28.34 | IriX64 | drugs do that to you :) |
| 01:30.03 | IriX64 | it's beautifull. (the picture I mean) |
| 01:30.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:30.52 | Maloeran | Ahaha, the FASTRAND had one massive drum for storage which caused it to crawl around the room during use |
| 01:31.07 | IriX64 | Gary has a nice world right? :) |
| 01:34.15 | IriX64 | should have waited and posted the whole run, you interested? |
| 01:34.27 | IriX64 | its still on the screen. |
| 01:36.21 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365561 <====if anyones interested in the actual numbers. |
| 01:37.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: don't use voidpc as it's a rather new addition to libz that likely might not be available if we're linking against a system zlib. |
| 01:43.05 | *** join/#brlcad handsome_evil (n=knoppix@203.130.205.60) | |
| 01:43.32 | handsome_evil | hello all |
| 01:43.47 | handsome_evil | i just found brl cad a minute ago |
| 01:43.57 | brlcad | hello mr evil |
| 01:44.03 | handsome_evil | i want to ask how relevant brlcad with autocad? |
| 01:44.28 | brlcad | autocad is a drafting CADD package, brl-cad is a solid modeling CAD package |
| 01:44.53 | brlcad | predominantly different domains, some functionality overlap, but highly likely not what you're hoping |
| 01:45.17 | brlcad | decent foundation to be that though, if you're a developer |
| 01:45.36 | brlcad | screenshot of the modeler in action, http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 01:46.36 | handsome_evil | umm.. if just for solid modeling i'v allready using blender |
| 01:46.56 | handsome_evil | i just wana get a 2d drafting for my presentation |
| 01:47.02 | brlcad | heh, blender is horrible for solid modeling, but a great modeler |
| 01:47.24 | handsome_evil | what is mean solid modeling is horrible?? |
| 01:47.29 | handsome_evil | the resolution?? |
| 01:48.04 | brlcad | solid modeling is an entire engineering-based approach |
| 01:48.25 | brlcad | guarantees of topology, connectivity, engineering-specific constraints and requirements |
| 01:48.39 | brlcad | blender provides no such featureset |
| 01:48.56 | brlcad | it's more in line with modeling systems like maya and softimage |
| 01:49.20 | handsome_evil | umm.. that nice, but i am not an engeneering, so i think don't need brlcad if like that |
| 01:49.23 | brlcad | whereas solid modeling system examples would be packages like unigraphics/nx, solidworks, pro/engineer, etc |
| 01:50.01 | brlcad | brl-cad will render hidden-line images ala drafting diagrams, example http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 01:50.35 | brlcad | but the package is inherintly not a drafting modeler, that would be something like qcad (there's not many open source options) |
| 01:51.50 | handsome_evil | btw i hate qcad.. |
| 01:51.58 | brlcad | hehe, don't we all |
| 02:03.57 | brlcad | handsome_evil: some more perspective.. http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 02:04.10 | brlcad | autocad is a CADD package (big oval on the left) |
| 02:04.23 | brlcad | we overlap a little in various areas |
| 02:06.28 | handsome_evil | http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png >> that very nice, may be i will try brlcad |
| 02:06.28 | handsome_evil | after download the big software i think :-D |
| 02:07.17 | brlcad | handsome_evil: for what it's worth, the tutorials on the website are *required* if you want to learn how to be productive with it |
| 02:07.31 | brlcad | and they're just an introduction |
| 02:07.53 | brlcad | in particular the http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 02:08.36 | handsome_evil | ok thank you very much brlcad |
| 02:09.56 | brlcad | no problem, feel free to stay and hang out or come back if you have any questions |
| 02:11.10 | ``Erik | irritating, I seem to be missing files |
| 02:12.53 | ``Erik | <-- scratches his chin |
| 02:13.01 | ``Erik | we should put those rt06 posters on teh website or something |
| 02:13.10 | IriX64 | didn't mean you itchy :) |
| 02:13.11 | brlcad | yup |
| 02:13.22 | brlcad | they give you back pdfs? |
| 02:13.29 | ``Erik | um, psd's |
| 02:13.29 | brlcad | or word docs or whatever |
| 02:13.33 | brlcad | ahh, nifty |
| 02:13.36 | ``Erik | but preview can convert to pdf |
| 02:13.38 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 02:13.48 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: irritating.. zlib only seems to provide voidpc with the latest versions of zlib, and is incompatible with the voidp type found in the older headers. conditionally declare using the new zlib's ZLIB_VERNUM. |
| 02:14.01 | ``Erik | we'd probably need to scan and post the form 1's, too |
| 02:14.19 | brlcad | as long as you have them somewhere accessible |
| 02:14.34 | brlcad | I have a file, or at least I used to, for old stuff |
| 02:15.06 | ``Erik | if ya keep the ARL-1's with the file, you dont' have to go far to find 'em :) |
| 02:15.45 | ``Erik | if it's a pdf, they can be attached as "page 2" |
| 02:15.47 | brlcad | pretty useless gov't overhead garbage baggage for the project though |
| 02:15.54 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:16.16 | brlcad | it'd matter more if it were a gov't site too |
| 02:16.32 | ``Erik | or better yet, keep copies in cvs in the web/ module |
| 02:16.37 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:16.59 | brlcad | poor neglected web module |
| 02:17.44 | brlcad | i could see a dir with them, or just tossing them up with the uploads, but it just starts a bad precedent of something else to manage that from an open source perspective is counterproductive |
| 02:17.59 | ``Erik | <-- has no problem burning sf's disk space |
| 02:18.35 | ``Erik | *shrug* not that it'd ever be challenged, heh |
| 02:18.40 | brlcad | if you have a few, then someone might ask .. "well what about theses over here" and then you have to either hunt them down, or determine they're okay, or prove it doesn't applyl, etc |
| 02:18.45 | brlcad | exactly |
| 02:18.48 | brlcad | so why bother :) |
| 02:19.08 | brlcad | is that a brainslug on your head? :) |
| 02:19.22 | ``Erik | #37 yo |
| 02:21.58 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:23.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:23.23 | ``Erik | irix photon mapped a havoc http://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/shot3.jpg |
| 02:24.03 | IriX64 | ty. |
| 02:24.36 | ``Erik | hm, a few little things... jpg is lossy, png would look better... |
| 02:24.51 | ``Erik | it looks aliased, hypersampling fixes that up |
| 02:25.08 | IriX64 | man ive been meaning to get a better screen capture tool, what would you recommend. |
| 02:25.16 | ``Erik | rt from the command line can output a .pix file, then you can use pix2png |
| 02:25.25 | brlcad | and due to the way he implemented photon mapping, if you put havoc in a box, even a big one, you can get vastly better results.. |
| 02:25.26 | ``Erik | uhhh, Grab.app? :D *duck* |
| 02:25.30 | IriX64 | ty ill try that. |
| 02:25.32 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 02:25.36 | ``Erik | or a sphere |
| 02:25.43 | ``Erik | any enclosing geometry |
| 02:26.10 | ``Erik | and, naturally, more photons means a better lookin' pic, at the cost of cpu time :) |
| 02:26.17 | brlcad | can use the "inside" command to hollow out various primitives |
| 02:26.19 | IriX64 | I did *NOT implement photon mapping by any stretch. |
| 02:26.38 | ``Erik | when I was preparing the poster images, some of 'em ran all night |
| 02:27.36 | handsome_evil | but BRL-CAD doesn't support 2d drating and not possible to make blue print isn't it?? |
| 02:27.52 | handsome_evil | *drafting |
| 02:27.52 | ``Erik | heh, no, twingy implemented the photon mapping... he also coded up adrt and the path tracing used to generate http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 02:27.55 | brlcad | rise alone, even being a pig, make adrt worth keeping around |
| 02:28.18 | brlcad | at least until someone one-ups the quality possible |
| 02:28.27 | ``Erik | <-- wonders if the hummer animation can be put somewhere o.O |
| 02:28.36 | IriX64 | 5 *days? |
| 02:28.43 | brlcad | handsome_evil: there is some 2D drafting support, but worse than qcad from a GUI perspective |
| 02:28.44 | ``Erik | yes |
| 02:28.49 | ``Erik | on a small cluster |
| 02:29.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: it's even been form 1'd even though it's not an army model |
| 02:30.10 | ``Erik | heh, irix, what kinda hw are you using? |
| 02:30.13 | brlcad | ``Erik: you have access to the ftp.brlcad.org web root, /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org |
| 02:30.20 | IriX64 | cheap :) |
| 02:30.39 | brlcad | there's a /tmp, images, and datafiles in there that are not synchronized up |
| 02:30.50 | brlcad | brlcad.org does sync down though |
| 02:31.15 | brlcad | (thinking of changing that soon) |
| 02:31.24 | handsome_evil | any one here have try gcad??? |
| 02:31.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:32.02 | brlcad | good luck with that |
| 02:32.59 | ``Erik | <-- not in the brlcad or www groups |
| 02:33.10 | brlcad | huh? |
| 02:33.21 | IriX64 | ``Erik i just looked at your post again, you are right, needs clarity ill see what i can do about it not that i send a whole lot of oix, but still. |
| 02:33.28 | brlcad | you're in brlcad group |
| 02:33.33 | IriX64 | err pix too. |
| 02:33.41 | ``Erik | woops, sorry |
| 02:33.41 | brlcad | which gets you sudo access to www group |
| 02:33.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:33.55 | brlcad | sudo -u www for web actions |
| 02:35.04 | louipc | hey new people awesome |
| 02:35.16 | brlcad | IriX64: it would be a great (and relatively straight-forward) exercise to build a big box or sphere around havoc, put a light inside and render with photon mapping |
| 02:35.18 | ``Erik | irix: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/humvee3.png |
| 02:35.59 | IriX64 | brlcad: you have experience on me, i'm just a tinkerer. |
| 02:36.16 | brlcad | that's why I said it'd be a great exercise |
| 02:36.33 | brlcad | you should be able to do that after like two tutorials in the mged intro |
| 02:36.50 | ``Erik | a, a bigger one than at sf... http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png |
| 02:36.54 | IriX64 | ``Erik beautifull but why the canary? :) |
| 02:36.57 | brlcad | or even just playing with "make box arb" with some booleans :) |
| 02:37.16 | ``Erik | 'canary'? |
| 02:37.19 | IriX64 | Ill learn.. eventually. |
| 02:37.26 | IriX64 | color yellow? |
| 02:37.36 | ``Erik | uh, that's a beige, actually |
| 02:37.43 | brlcad | doesn't get much more basic than making a hollow box ;) |
| 02:37.43 | ``Erik | the kinda beige they paint those for desert use |
| 02:38.01 | brlcad | I'd send that out to the list as a nice tutorial if you got a picture from it |
| 02:38.27 | handsome_evil | http://www.graphiteone-cad.com/en/index.htm >> nice cad for presentation, but seem have no material supported..... :( |
| 02:38.44 | brlcad | make sph sph? :) |
| 02:38.55 | ``Erik | yeah, it's hard for me |
| 02:39.02 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:39.23 | IriX64 | ``Erik that last is a nice vehicle, lets pray we don't have to use it. |
| 02:39.28 | louipc | how'd you get the trees and grass and such? |
| 02:39.40 | brlcad | handsome_evil: I don't generally promote or follow the "free but not open source" products out there, we're an open source project looking for more involvement ;) |
| 02:40.07 | ``Erik | louipc: I think he used blender scripts? each blade of grass is modeled |
| 02:40.24 | louipc | ah neat |
| 02:40.25 | brlcad | there's a procedural vegitation generator in brl-cad, but yeah, think he used a script found elsewhere |
| 02:41.01 | handsome_evil | brlcad, you mean graphiteone-cad not opensource?? |
| 02:41.03 | ``Erik | (and irix, the vehicle is being usd right now) |
| 02:42.02 | handsome_evil | no problem for me... just need to find a job with free software :-D |
| 02:42.34 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add brep.h to the dist... |
| 02:42.52 | brlcad | handsome_evil: where do you see it's open source? |
| 02:43.17 | handsome_evil | no i am not see :-D |
| 02:43.24 | handsome_evil | just chek if that free for download |
| 02:43.57 | brlcad | which is my point, there are a handful that are "free" like them.. I mostly ignore them ;) |
| 02:44.13 | brlcad | I'm much more interested in improving brl-cad |
| 02:44.20 | brlcad | so that it can one day replace autocad ;) |
| 02:44.29 | louipc | woohoo |
| 02:44.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:44.58 | handsome_evil | umm.. you are so idealism |
| 02:45.09 | brlcad | not really, more pragmatic |
| 02:45.19 | brlcad | it doesn't benefit the cad industry to support them |
| 02:45.35 | brlcad | we all benefit by unifying efforts towards a project/goal |
| 02:45.40 | handsome_evil | a) You must use the Licensed Software only for either private, educational or research, but not for commercial usage. |
| 02:45.48 | louipc | what bothers me most is proprietary formats |
| 02:45.52 | handsome_evil | ohh..... god... |
| 02:45.58 | brlcad | brl-cad's got the most headway of any project by a very long ways (in the CAD domain at least) |
| 02:46.22 | brlcad | heh, you wanted commercial usage, didn't you ;) |
| 02:46.32 | handsome_evil | that a wonderfull dream, as my dream |
| 02:47.04 | brlcad | even with our 20+ year lead, there's still massive ways to go to be functionally competitive |
| 02:47.04 | handsome_evil | brcad, yes i do |
| 02:47.04 | handsome_evil | :( |
| 02:47.07 | handsome_evil | huh... i am a dead man |
| 02:47.32 | brlcad | learn brl-cad, use rtedge to generate the line drawings, annotate using gimp ;) |
| 02:47.50 | louipc | I know first hand that a lot of companies just pirate software |
| 02:48.23 | handsome_evil | no one can accept drafter job with no 2d drafting presentation here.. |
| 02:48.54 | brlcad | you said you tried qcad? |
| 02:49.05 | brlcad | it's at least "functional" albeit mildly painful |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | i just see of qcad |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | not realy try |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | but bad interface |
| 02:50.24 | handsome_evil | may be i must using qcad now |
| 02:51.23 | brlcad | qcad is about "as good as it gets" for open source -- it's not pretty but it should do the job |
| 02:51.31 | handsome_evil | if using the gimp for 2d drafting, people will be doubt about the scale.. |
| 02:51.31 | handsome_evil | how ever i still interest to learn brlcad now |
| 02:51.34 | louipc | handsome_evil: it's at least as good as solidworks' dwgeditor :P |
| 02:52.08 | brlcad | hmm.. maybe solidworks is just rewrapping qcad... hmmm! |
| 02:52.39 | louipc | hmm |
| 02:52.53 | brlcad | there was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off since |
| 02:53.26 | IriX64 | did the door hit them in the arse on the way out ;) |
| 02:53.38 | brlcad | we have a (lame) sketch editor that is used for editing sketch primtives, that could easily invoke qcad instead |
| 02:53.45 | louipc | oh wow, wonder what came of that |
| 02:54.13 | handsome_evil | ??? brl-cad support qcad?? |
| 02:54.19 | Twingy | brlcad, I modified the captcha code and no more spammers, http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/profile.php?mode=register&sid=b748de68a4c350844d1026bdc4a6ec99 |
| 02:54.32 | brlcad | Twingy: swank |
| 02:54.36 | louipc | cool |
| 02:54.47 | brlcad | handsome_evil: I don't really care about them, but if you're looking for drafting, they do that better than we do |
| 02:55.18 | brlcad | i've got no problems being open about our weaknesses |
| 02:55.28 | handsome_evil | brlcad: there was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off since >> i confused with this sentence |
| 02:56.03 | handsome_evil | what is mean integrating?? |
| 02:56.03 | brlcad | there was an individual here in the channel a while ago that wanted drafting features similar to what you want |
| 02:56.06 | IriX64 | Twingy... should add to that "and also any applicable laws where *you live" |
| 02:56.17 | brlcad | integrating: making the two work together cleanly |
| 02:56.29 | Twingy | IriX64, for what purpose? |
| 02:56.37 | handsome_evil | oh.. i see |
| 02:56.41 | IriX64 | cover as many bases as possible. |
| 02:56.49 | Twingy | huh? |
| 02:57.03 | IriX64 | whats legal here may be illegal there and vice vers. |
| 02:57.06 | brlcad | so if you wanted drafting, you would get a (clean) subset of qcad .. if you wanted solid modeling, or use that drafting sketch in a solid model, you'd have brl-cad |
| 02:57.53 | brlcad | IriX64: that intro is required in the US |
| 02:58.14 | IriX64 | doesn't mean you can't add to it. or does it? |
| 02:58.38 | brlcad | it's a website, you could do anything to it |
| 02:58.47 | brlcad | put little floating penis's if you wanted |
| 02:59.35 | brlcad | as the host of a public forum on the web, though, if you want to protect your arse from legal action, you have to at least ask if they're underage |
| 02:59.52 | brlcad | it only matters really if they click the second link |
| 03:00.11 | IriX64 | of course, we had one site here wanting photcopies of your drivers licence. |
| 03:00.46 | IriX64 | little more overhead but it could pay off. |
| 03:00.46 | brlcad | Twingy: what exactly did you modify? just a different pattern? |
| 03:01.22 | Twingy | different noise pattern and image size |
| 03:01.41 | brlcad | any modification that's "custom" is pretty sufficient to ward off the spammers presuming there's not a captcha like that elsewhere |
| 03:01.42 | Twingy | to add special characters would require working knowledge of the gzip algorithm |
| 03:03.41 | brlcad | after you get some users and spammer attempts, i'd be curious to know how many get through |
| 03:04.32 | brlcad | some should still get through, as they are humans with that as some sort of day job from what I have seen |
| 03:05.26 | brlcad | we get maybe 2-4 a month now on bz's (with hundreds of attempts per day) |
| 03:05.38 | Maloeran | Humans reading and typing captcha all day long, that seems like a productive existence to benefit humanity... |
| 03:06.03 | brlcad | bz's has a special additional input box that asks .. "what's the name of this game?" |
| 03:06.37 | ``Erik | ehehehe kinda like lisp.paste.org's captcha? "what language is this pastebin written in?" with the answer right there? :D |
| 03:06.41 | brlcad | I'd be really impressed if someone automated a response that can correctly answer that |
| 03:06.50 | ``Erik | er |
| 03:06.53 | ``Erik | paste.lisp.org rather |
| 03:07.05 | brlcad | does wonders to stop the spam |
| 03:07.10 | Maloeran | Just wait for this AI to have a larger knowledge base, to put any question into its right context... :) |
| 03:07.20 | brlcad | but alas they still make it through, which leads be to believe they are people |
| 03:07.55 | brlcad | i've seen some sites with things like "what is the number on [this] page?" that you have to go to and hunt for |
| 03:08.21 | ``Erik | man, I remember shit like that on video games as piracy protection |
| 03:08.23 | brlcad | as it is, you'd be surprised how many people actually get "what's the name of this game?" wrong... ;-) |
| 03:08.35 | Maloeran | Ah yes Erik, that was horrible! |
| 03:08.39 | ``Erik | battle zone! uh... flag... |
| 03:08.59 | brlcad | if the answer has a bz or flag anywhere in the answer, it lets you by |
| 03:08.59 | ``Erik | what's the third word of the second paragraph on page 44? |
| 03:09.01 | Maloeran | It was very easy to fix generally though, just a single jcc opcode |
| 03:09.01 | ``Erik | "the" |
| 03:09.26 | brlcad | yet every month about two people e-mail saying they don't know what to put there (in kiddie lingo) |
| 03:09.48 | ``Erik | at least with pirates, it was semi-interesting... "what month was the silver train in vera cruz in 1640?" |
| 03:11.07 | IriX64 | jcc? |
| 03:11.19 | Maloeran | Any conditional jump, jxx if you prefer |
| 03:11.25 | brlcad | "Do girls really have cooties?" |
| 03:11.43 | IriX64 | heh like jc jnc jnz etc? |
| 03:11.45 | brlcad | "All politicians are: a) hard-working, b) honest, or c) on the public payroll" - the answer to which is c). |
| 03:11.52 | Maloeran | Right, IriX64 |
| 03:11.59 | IriX64 | ty |
| 03:13.38 | IriX64 | bout to try this whole pix2png thing. |
| 03:14.15 | IriX64 | pix-png i mean. |
| 03:14.35 | ``Erik | mal: have you seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OISC |
| 03:15.01 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: define void if it's not so we don't bail out, even though this version of tcl will be disappearing soon |
| 03:16.02 | Maloeran | Indirectly I did, Erik, yes |
| 03:16.33 | Maloeran | The program is entirely stored in the data instead, which... is pretty much the same |
| 03:17.15 | Maloeran | You could say that processors only execute one instruction, which is to fetch the next sequence of bytes and act upon its value. Oh well |
| 03:23.41 | Twingy | brlcad, check out my captcha now, added a pattern |
| 03:24.09 | Twingy | argyle type deal |
| 03:24.30 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: also define const just so we don't fail compilation |
| 03:24.31 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:25.00 | brlcad | confirmation code.. XXXXXXX8WWS3V |
| 03:25.05 | Twingy | hehe |
| 03:25.29 | Twingy | you'd have to be kinda retarded to do that :) |
| 03:26.10 | brlcad | next to animate it! |
| 03:26.18 | brlcad | little bouncing gif |
| 03:26.32 | Twingy | path traced objects |
| 03:26.37 | brlcad | a spinning beachball |
| 03:26.51 | brlcad | floating penis's |
| 03:26.54 | Twingy | YMCA guys spelling out captchas |
| 03:26.57 | Maloeran | Multiple overlapping transparent png pictures and each reveal a piece of character! |
| 03:27.03 | Twingy | with floating penis's |
| 03:27.08 | Twingy | that'd be super gay |
| 03:27.08 | Maloeran | Plus, you will filter out all IE users with broken png support |
| 03:27.12 | brlcad | in chaps |
| 03:27.35 | Twingy | yes, don't forget the chaps |
| 03:27.35 | Twingy | and indian head dress |
| 03:27.39 | Twingy | and peanut' buttah' jelly time guys in the back ground |
| 03:28.08 | brlcad | and hopping chocolate eggs |
| 03:28.27 | brlcad | being eaten by badgers |
| 03:28.28 | Twingy | with emit brown from back to the feature for good measure |
| 03:28.36 | Twingy | *future |
| 03:29.35 | Twingy | followed by a partial differential equation they have to solve in 3 seconds |
| 03:30.09 | Twingy | but it's presented as a jumbogram |
| 03:30.14 | Twingy | jumblegram rather |
| 03:30.36 | Twingy | as long as it's not overly complicated it should work just fine |
| 03:31.01 | louipc | hahah |
| 03:31.06 | Twingy | 10:30, it's running time, bbl |
| 03:50.06 | IriX64 | supposed to keel when you see that :) |
| 03:50.12 | IriX64 | kneel too. |
| 03:50.40 | Maloeran | And this was translated, Elizabeth II holds the copyright on french speaking pages of the Quebec government in Canada |
| 03:51.47 | IriX64 | really? |
| 03:51.56 | IriX64 | how far back are you going? |
| 03:52.45 | Maloeran | Hum? I'm not following |
| 03:53.01 | IriX64 | how old are these documents? |
| 03:53.09 | Maloeran | Very recent |
| 03:53.20 | IriX64 | and they still add that? |
| 03:54.03 | Maloeran | I never saw this before, apparently they still do |
| 04:06.32 | louipc | They're still part of Canada however much they complain. |
| 04:07.19 | Maloeran | I'm fine with that, I'm less fine with the queen of England holding copyright on all government publications |
| 04:08.02 | louipc | I don't know why we don't shrug her off already |
| 04:09.11 | louipc | She keeps someone in charge here called the Governor General, who appoints the Prime Minister |
| 04:09.28 | louipc | it's more of a useless ceremonial thing |
| 04:11.33 | IriX64 | Maloeran: Tell them they have to read every line :) |
| 04:12.42 | IriX64 | louipc did you get it to compile? |
| 04:12.55 | IriX64 | i was away for a bit. |
| 04:12.57 | louipc | yep, and install |
| 04:13.11 | IriX64 | does it run well on your system? |
| 04:13.33 | louipc | IriX64: haven't tested it much, but I ran into a problem with archer |
| 04:13.43 | IriX64 | btw your os being? |
| 04:13.48 | louipc | linux |
| 04:14.06 | IriX64 | mged performs? |
| 04:14.07 | louipc | I'm making packages for as much stuff in other/ as I can |
| 04:14.39 | louipc | mged works enough.. the help manual doesn't come up still I have to figure that out |
| 04:14.51 | louipc | something to do with $mged_browser something |
| 04:14.56 | IriX64 | there are docs in share i think. |
| 04:14.59 | Maloeran | louipc, is archer complaining about some BLT thing? |
| 04:15.27 | Maloeran | I just wanted to confirm as I encountered what I guess is the same problem |
| 04:15.43 | louipc | Maloeran: I didn't get that far it was one of the other TCL extensions though |
| 04:16.13 | louipc | I think... could have been blt |
| 04:16.34 | IriX64 | try it for him louipc ill do the same. |
| 04:18.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/365701 < === problem here. |
| 04:18.23 | louipc | nope, just can't find itcl.tcl just a path thing I think |
| 04:18.55 | IriX64 | the archer window came up though but all greyed out |
| 04:19.47 | brlcad | mged_browser is the problem, it doesn't search very hard for an html viewer |
| 04:20.14 | brlcad | known issue, just nobody has gotten to fixing it yet |
| 04:20.21 | IriX64 | Maloeran: I know little flying penis's about tcl ;) |
| 04:20.23 | brlcad | only affects some platforms |
| 04:20.30 | IriX64 | ty |
| 04:20.39 | louipc | brlcad: that's my first target after packages ;) |
| 04:20.59 | brlcad | cool :) |
| 04:23.35 | Twingy | back |
| 04:27.09 | IriX64 | startup script? Is there a standard name for a startup tcl script? |
| 04:28.36 | louipc | that error message doesn't tell much hm |
| 04:28.51 | IriX64 | gives a line number.... |
| 04:29.47 | IriX64 | i can't do much with it but the people who know prolly can. |
| 04:30.10 | brlcad | .mgedrc? |
| 04:30.24 | IriX64 | ? |
| 04:30.37 | IriX64 | thats the startup script? |
| 04:30.40 | brlcad | ooh, you're trying to run archer |
| 04:30.41 | brlcad | never mind |
| 04:30.51 | IriX64 | heh ty |
| 04:31.18 | brlcad | i did say earlier that archer needs a bit of compilation tweaking to get working, it's not going to work out of the box on any system at the moment |
| 04:31.37 | brlcad | it's not even been officially announced as ready to use |
| 04:32.05 | IriX64 | was just trying to help Maloeran. |
| 04:32.09 | louipc | oh is archer the next GUI you mentioned? |
| 04:32.24 | brlcad | louipc: no it's not, but it's somewhere between the two |
| 04:32.35 | louipc | ah alright |
| 04:32.44 | brlcad | has some really good ideas, and if anything shows what mged could be like |
| 04:34.24 | brlcad | you're more than welcome to work on archer, heck I'll give anyone commit access if they're serious about working on it |
| 04:35.14 | brlcad | i'm just not going to help much since it's on the todo list to fix it later already, and I'm trying to push a release out with different updates ;) |
| 04:35.25 | brlcad | other than to say "good luck with that" =) |
| 04:35.35 | louipc | :D |
| 06:11.10 | IriX64 | gcc 4.1.1 also qualifies as lots and lots of code :) |
| 06:11.27 | IriX64 | to compile I mean. |
| 06:18.53 | IriX64 | you think i would have learned my lesson about the latest and greatest thing by now :) |
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| 14:36.52 | Maloeran | Ah! They finally received the memory for the 8 cores box |
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| 17:45.25 | ``Erik | mrph. |
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| 18:45.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: did you modify any of the apache modules, or apache, or libapr or something yesterday? |
| 18:45.48 | brlcad | have massive httpd woes going on atm |
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| 19:15.47 | clock_ | brlcad: do you ride snowboard? |
| 19:17.57 | ``Erik | I don't think so, what woes? |
| 19:18.13 | ``Erik | show me where the breakage exhibits and I'll fix o.O |
| 19:19.21 | ``Erik | <-- was trying to be careful not to touch web and bzflag related stuff... was avoiding the db's until noticing they're totally unused... |
| 19:22.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: Remove ON_BREP conditional, rely on _cplusplus instead |
| 19:32.10 | brlcad | clock_: never tried |
| 19:34.54 | ``Erik | ah, creating an account seems to do it |
| 19:35.18 | *** part/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.191) | |
| 19:54.47 | brlcad | ``Erik: it looks like anything via php that tries to kick off an e-mail |
| 19:56.18 | brlcad | ``Erik: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/emailtest.php this will consistently crash it |
| 19:59.07 | ``Erik | okie, thnx |
| 20:04.10 | brlcad | I believe that same crash happens when php || httpd are compiled sans -pthread |
| 20:04.27 | brlcad | some wierd interaction goes on |
| 20:31.36 | ``Erik | uhhhhh |
| 20:35.19 | brlcad | fyi, if you hadn't noticed already, there are scripts running that watch and talk to apache to ensure that it's running and that a botnet hasn't somehow attached -- if you kill it without a restart, it'll get restarted on it's own within a minute or two |
| 20:35.38 | brlcad | which is just to say that if you need it to go down and stay down, you'll have to turn off the script |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | (i'll do it if you need that) |
| 20:36.45 | ``Erik | I've been bouncing it pretty quick... butseperate versions of apache were trying to run at the same time (I think) |
| 20:40.48 | ``Erik | damn this is an old fbsd, I'm forgettin' if the gotchas have changed, heh |
| 20:40.56 | Maloeran | Hum, let's try a hackish manual installation |
| 20:41.42 | Maloeran | new box, that is |
| 20:44.48 | ``Erik | well, yeah, obviously |
| 20:44.57 | ``Erik | but I forget which gotchas went away and which were introduced after 512 |
| 20:44.58 | ``Erik | 521 |
| 20:48.13 | brlcad | from ports perspective, -pthread is the one that I have to watch for and hand-tweak |
| 20:48.43 | brlcad | iirc apache's configure actually ignores the flags and does it's own thing so you might have to abort and hand-tweak |
| 20:54.13 | brlcad | yes, I'd love to upgrade |
| 20:54.28 | brlcad | if I ever take a road trip down south, I might do it ;) |
| 20:54.53 | brlcad | if I didn't have such a sweet deal on bandwidth, I'd get a second server with 6.2 and just migrate |
| 20:56.01 | brlcad | but their current plans only offer a third of the bandwidth I currently get and a few bucks more expensive to boot |
| 20:56.04 | ``Erik | it's not that far away, it's just down in man-asses, va, right? |
| 20:56.10 | brlcad | don't care about the money, but the bandwidth is teh suck |
| 20:56.25 | brlcad | heh, va?? what gave you that idea? |
| 20:56.39 | ``Erik | reverse lookup? |
| 20:56.52 | brlcad | out on the pan handle |
| 20:57.07 | brlcad | soaking up ze rays |
| 20:57.57 | brlcad | any luck with that backtrace? when I tried, it was mostly useless garbage |
| 20:58.03 | ``Erik | garbage, but mentioned apr |
| 20:58.10 | ``Erik | so I fixed up a new apr to shove in |
| 20:59.33 | ``Erik | ah, woops, wrong #, was lookin' at my dns server, hurrrr |
| 21:00.18 | brlcad | coupled with some 5.2 pthread bad behavior |
| 21:03.38 | brlcad | yeah, I have a similar bug in there with the php folks |
| 21:03.49 | brlcad | I think I let it close after they made "some" attempt at a fix |
| 21:07.23 | ``Erik | what the holy crap did they do |
| 21:07.34 | brlcad | http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=37120 |
| 21:08.32 | brlcad | so yeah, still a php bug.. but related to pthread misbehavior on that apr subprocess |
| 21:09.14 | brlcad | getting that trace was a bitch |
| 21:09.43 | brlcad | what version is in ports now? |
| 21:10.05 | ``Erik | of what, apache? 2.2.4 |
| 21:12.25 | brlcad | php |
| 21:12.42 | ``Erik | 5.2.1 I think |
| 21:13.08 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:15.36 | ``Erik | did you hook dan up with his latest brl-cad issue? |
| 21:16.17 | brlcad | i think I fixed that yesterday |
| 21:16.33 | ``Erik | hm, he sent it an hour ago |
| 21:16.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:17.24 | brlcad | i'll look again, but trying not to get distracted too far from auto_path bits as that is going to be a big change that'll impact him too |
| 21:32.22 | ``Erik | hrm, apache and php5 have both been rebuild with the pthread modification... |
| 21:32.28 | ``Erik | still does it... |
| 21:33.28 | ``Erik | what's the watcher script? |
| 21:36.29 | ``Erik | ah, ya already turned it off |
| 21:39.59 | ``Erik | screw it |
| 21:40.07 | ``Erik | I backed out the changes, it's not throwing sig6 anymore |
| 21:43.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366733 < === Maloeran, this is mine :) |
| 21:45.18 | ``Erik | just one? |
| 21:46.05 | Maloeran | The real question is how well the 1066mhz memory bus will cope with the 8 cores, they still got 4mb of L2 cache each |
| 21:48.12 | archivist | 386's should be enough |
| 21:48.46 | ``Erik | well, ya want the machines fast enough that the link between 'em has some penalty associated... |
| 21:48.54 | louipc | what's with openNURBS wanting your email to download? |
| 21:50.53 | IriX64 | this ones data because its an unrecognized operand, so we'll put it in the data cache as opposed to the instruction cache. |
| 21:50.54 | Maloeran | Erik, amusingly, 1066mhz/8 is about the memory bus that early Pentium had |
| 21:51.10 | Maloeran | I can only hope that each core is not going to access ram as intensively, with the 4mb cache... or performance is going to be truly pathetic |
| 21:55.11 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366744 <=== anybody know what this is trying to tell me, I'm not familiar with such runtime errors. |
| 22:00.11 | Maloeran | That errno is Connection reset by peer |
| 22:00.37 | IriX64 | Maloeran, mine? |
| 22:01.33 | IriX64 | happened again. |
| 22:01.49 | IriX64 | trying to map m35. |
| 22:04.11 | IriX64 | started from scratch, lets see if it can do a normal view. |
| 22:21.49 | IriX64 | its not me, does it everytime. |
| 22:26.21 | IriX64 | worms eye view of ktank, nice :) |
| 22:27.07 | IriX64 | you people should make that a standard view, worm's eye view, birds eye view,... |
| 22:34.20 | brlcad | ``Erik: turned what off? |
| 22:35.00 | brlcad | i'm impressed that you could actually back that far out..... |
| 22:36.07 | brlcad | louipc: my guess is that, like most companies, they *really* want a bean count of how many real unique downloads there are and the numbers make managers happy |
| 22:37.54 | brlcad | IriX64: does the framebuffer close, remain partially rendered, or are you closing the window? |
| 22:46.04 | IriX64 | just prints that error, does not even attempt to render it and says raytrace complete. |
| 22:46.20 | IriX64 | all windows remain open. |
| 22:46.38 | IriX64 | but terra.g crashes mged working on that now. |
| 22:47.02 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366802 whats wrong with this, keeps saying expected expression before if. |
| 22:51.28 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366808 << this is the error message *before i started fooling around. |
| 22:52.43 | brlcad | you have a typo on line 5 |
| 22:52.48 | brlcad | close the bu_log |
| 22:54.06 | IriX64 | must be blind i dont see it. |
| 22:54.47 | IriX64 | besides my compiler points me at the if.... |
| 22:55.42 | brlcad | look hard |
| 22:55.45 | brlcad | two characters missing |
| 22:58.14 | IriX64 | bu_log("BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE failed file %s, line %d\n",__FILE__,__LINE__); |
| 22:58.18 | IriX64 | where? |
| 23:01.50 | IriX64 | #define printx("In file %s at line%d \n",__FILE__,__LINE__); |
| 23:01.57 | IriX64 | this i use too. |
| 23:03.37 | IriX64 | beware __FUNCTION__ not all compilers are created equeal :) |
| 23:04.25 | IriX64 | can use #ifndef __FUNCTION__ #define __FUNCTION__ __LINE__ |
| 23:05.11 | brlcad | that's not what you put in the pastebin |
| 23:05.20 | brlcad | so perhaps just the pastebin is wrong |
| 23:05.46 | IriX64 | man im looking at it |
| 23:05.55 | brlcad | pastebin is missing ); |
| 23:06.25 | IriX64 | ahhh ic its there thouhg in the file, i must have missed with the mouse. |
| 23:06.46 | IriX64 | soirry for the confusion. |
| 23:11.22 | IriX64 | is BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE a function or a macro? |
| 23:11.36 | IriX64 | gotta be a macro, sorry. |
| 23:14.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: seems other versions in the 1.2 line also have voidpc |
| 23:33.21 | IriX64 | s/__FILE__ for last ocuurence of __LINE__ :( (goof) |
| 23:37.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: updating the timestamp seems to cause an empty include/brlcad_config.h.in under at least some other versions of autoconf/autoheader so disable it for now until the reason can be determined. |
| 23:38.19 | IriX64 | where did you hide BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE? |
| 23:39.37 | brlcad | include/bu.h |
| 23:39.45 | IriX64 | ty |
| 23:42.51 | IriX64 | that signature, has it ever been changed since the databases were designed? |
| 23:51.43 | IriX64 | thats not whats crashing mged. |
| 23:54.19 | IriX64 | mapped file open failed everytime i browse geometry, when i e something it crashes. |
| 00:00.23 | IriX64 | could it be a bug in asc2g? |
| 00:01.02 | IriX64 | still mged should *not crash. |
| 00:24.40 | ``Erik | brlcad: I saw a script in /etc/crontab for checking apache that was commented out... |
| 00:27.48 | ``Erik | and of course I could back that far out, I'm a fuckin' pro |
| 00:27.57 | ``Erik | *duck* |
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| 00:52.43 | IriX64 | two instances of gcc consumes cpu. |
| 00:54.42 | IriX64 | why don't they build disk interface (and disks to go with them ) that allow a request of more data while data xfer is already in progress? sort of like full duplex communications. |
| 00:55.38 | IriX64 | eliminate the disk bottleneck or at least reduce it. |
| 00:57.34 | IriX64 | sharability test is going well. |
| 00:58.04 | ``Erik | they, uh |
| 00:58.04 | ``Erik | do |
| 00:58.06 | ``Erik | they're called scsi |
| 00:58.32 | ``Erik | sata's are starting to do a lot of the fu, too |
| 00:58.37 | ``Erik | <-- does all the time |
| 00:58.42 | ``Erik | also; I like doing make -j |
| 00:58.45 | ``Erik | wit hsome big number |
| 00:58.57 | Twingy | make -justin |
| 00:59.16 | Twingy | base 26 :D |
| 00:59.28 | ``Erik | that'd be a fairly big number there :D |
| 00:59.31 | IriX64 | err +18 |
| 01:00.16 | ``Erik | hmmmm, still not southpark season :/ |
| 01:00.38 | IriX64 | victoria secret season tho :) |
| 01:07.45 | IriX64 | on the other hand it gives the cpu a rest waiting on disk. |
| 01:14.22 | ``Erik | yeah, cpu's just love thermal shock |
| 01:16.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/366985 < somethings wonky with my load avg :( |
| 01:16.49 | IriX64 | ``Erik they stay warm for quite some time especially if you provide a woolen coat :) |
| 01:18.22 | IriX64 | ahh i remember, they don't know about each other. |
| 01:20.12 | IriX64 | hahah xterm says the same thing. |
| 01:35.31 | IriX64 | msg ``Erik you like png? I'll give you png, check incoming. :) |
| 01:35.58 | IriX64 | how do i recover from that :( |
| 01:36.35 | IriX64 | and here I thought finangle passed me by sigh. |
| 01:38.28 | louipc | it takes me like 2hrs to compile brlcad :P |
| 01:39.35 | IriX64 | *ahem* let's get back on topic, soon as BRL-CAD finishes installing i'm going to see about something. |
| 01:39.53 | IriX64 | ahh thankyou for putting me back on topic louipc. |
| 01:39.56 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:40.13 | IriX64 | 2hrs, mines about 1hr. |
| 01:40.18 | louipc | no prob |
| 01:40.37 | IriX64 | you enable-almost-everything too? |
| 01:40.59 | louipc | I'm running PIII 866 MHz 384MB RAM |
| 01:41.08 | louipc | I enable optimized |
| 01:41.09 | louipc | that's it |
| 01:41.21 | IriX64 | and it takes 2hrs? |
| 01:41.43 | louipc | yeaaah I have an old computer |
| 01:42.06 | IriX64 | overclocked obviously. |
| 01:42.15 | louipc | nope I don't do that |
| 01:42.26 | IriX64 | then why 866? |
| 01:42.59 | louipc | because that's what I bought 6yrs ago :D |
| 01:43.07 | IriX64 | heh. |
| 01:43.25 | louipc | yeah I need to upgrade hm? |
| 01:44.06 | louipc | It'll be such of a jump, my head will probably spin off |
| 01:44.26 | IriX64 | do it from parts its cheaper, the video you can probably retain. |
| 01:45.08 | louipc | I think the gfx got wonked in a storm, or my monitor |
| 01:45.40 | louipc | building from parts is never cheaper for me. I try to put in good stuff |
| 01:46.33 | louipc | but I wouldn't do it any other way |
| 01:47.11 | louipc | !? |
| 01:47.32 | louipc | where do you get such a thing? |
| 01:47.38 | Maloeran | Still installing base software for my new toy |
| 01:47.48 | Maloeran | Just bought it, received today |
| 01:48.24 | louipc | where'd you buy that from? |
| 01:48.56 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:49.30 | Maloeran | What do you mean, louipc? I ordered the pieces at some local shop.. which is surely not available where you live |
| 01:50.02 | louipc | ah alright |
| 01:50.14 | louipc | I think the most I can get is 4 cores |
| 01:51.25 | Maloeran | Clovertown chips are 4 cores, put two on the same motherboard. Or you can put 2-4 dual-core opterons |
| 01:51.32 | louipc | ah I see |
| 01:51.53 | louipc | yeah I'd like 2 cpus |
| 01:52.46 | Maloeran | The thing is fairly noisy, but as much as my old overclocked AMD64 in a home-made plexiglass case with two 160mm 110V fans |
| 01:53.44 | Maloeran | There weren't any board that allowed overclocking of Clovertown chips, so there was no reason to motivate any exotic case building... |
| 02:00.10 | IriX64 | ermf add too. |
| 02:02.14 | IriX64 | whats the "proper" way to reinstall just one component of BRL-CAD when you toy with the individual pieces? |
| 02:03.35 | ``Erik | in the dir of the thing you mucked with, type "make install" |
| 02:03.41 | IriX64 | ahhhh louipc this should work make -changed_only install right? :) |
| 02:05.22 | ``Erik | no can do, gubmint properties |
| 02:05.36 | ``Erik | also; you couldn't handle the sheer awesomeness of fbsd |
| 02:05.37 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:05.47 | IriX64 | if i lived there i'd say well i'm a taxpayer :) |
| 02:06.46 | IriX64 | say ``Erik, has Gionnini been around lately? |
| 02:07.22 | ``Erik | whowhathuh? |
| 02:07.31 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 02:08.21 | IriX64 | Navy peron don't worry bout it. |
| 02:08.27 | IriX64 | person too. |
| 02:10.58 | IriX64 | freebsd eh? |
| 02:11.18 | IriX64 | its free for a reason. (duck) |
| 02:13.58 | ``Erik | uh, yes, because it has one of the most liberal licenses in existance... that's where the name comes from... |
| 02:14.19 | ``Erik | because jolitz was being a cockbite with bsd386 |
| 02:14.58 | IriX64 | lucky for you we're not in meixed company, ermf am i sure of that? |
| 02:15.03 | IriX64 | mixed too. |
| 02:15.17 | ``Erik | and the whole at&t lawsuit thing that resulted in much rewriting of old code |
| 02:15.31 | ``Erik | resulting in bsd4.4lite |
| 02:15.49 | IriX64 | I've never had the pleasure of fbsd ``Erik, is it that good? |
| 02:16.02 | ``Erik | I like it *shrug* |
| 02:16.40 | ``Erik | fbsd is the 'unix' part of macosX, to boot |
| 02:16.52 | IriX64 | why did thet go away from the .exe thing? |
| 02:16.57 | ``Erik | uhhh |
| 02:16.59 | ``Erik | away from? |
| 02:17.21 | ``Erik | bsd predates cp/m and qdos (later brandraped to be msdos) by quite a bit |
| 02:17.26 | louipc | Maloeran: you have Intel chips? |
| 02:17.36 | IriX64 | freebsd stuff ive seen uses no extension, i assume it uses both relying on the signature in the file like most others true or false |
| 02:17.40 | IriX64 | ? |
| 02:17.48 | ``Erik | no, it relies mostly on the permissions of the file |
| 02:17.51 | ``Erik | it's a unix |
| 02:18.14 | IriX64 | execute visavisa data, that thing. |
| 02:18.46 | IriX64 | does that shield you though from DEP? |
| 02:18.54 | IriX64 | err drop the p |
| 02:19.07 | ``Erik | 'DE'? |
| 02:19.27 | IriX64 | data execution, ive read a bit about data execution prevention. |
| 02:20.01 | Maloeran | Yes louipc, AMD hasn't released their quad-cores yet.. |
| 02:20.09 | ``Erik | yeah, uh, that's something else... and very protected in some variants of bsd... obsd being the most aggressive, with the w^x paging |
| 02:20.11 | IriX64 | DEP to help protect your system from malicious code. |
| 02:20.11 | louipc | IriX64: same in linux, executables usually have no extension |
| 02:20.33 | IriX64 | ahh ty |
| 02:21.18 | louipc | Maloeran: ah I didn't think that you'd go for those |
| 02:21.27 | ``Erik | and usually it's called injection, and usually done via a stack smash |
| 02:22.04 | Maloeran | I'm all AMD usually, Intel's latest chips are supposed to be decent |
| 02:29.27 | Twingy | numaPIC |
| 02:29.44 | ``Erik | numanumanumanuma |
| 02:29.51 | Twingy | DEY TUK R JBS! |
| 02:30.01 | ``Erik | that'd be, like, the geekiest 'badger' song ever |
| 02:30.59 | Twingy | I'll tell you what, this twin engine plane is the most addictive thing ever |
| 02:31.16 | Twingy | I ran into some one else flying an electric at the high school this evening |
| 02:31.27 | Twingy | being about to fly < 1 mile from my house is awesome :) |
| 02:32.18 | ``Erik | pretty fast? |
| 02:32.32 | Twingy | moderately |
| 02:32.36 | Twingy | but it sounds awesome |
| 02:32.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:32.47 | Twingy | main reason why I haven't gone electric yet |
| 02:32.50 | ``Erik | swap off htose mufflers for tuned pipes :D |
| 02:32.53 | Twingy | just doesn't sound the same |
| 02:33.10 | Twingy | I usually fly at 1/2 throttle |
| 02:33.18 | Twingy | but when you open it up it's very much a 3D plane |
| 02:33.55 | Twingy | starting both engines up is no big deal either |
| 02:33.59 | ``Erik | cool |
| 02:34.01 | Twingy | takes about a minute |
| 02:34.09 | ``Erik | are they bothing feeding off the same fuel tank? |
| 02:34.09 | Twingy | I might swap out the 4oz tanks for 6oz ones |
| 02:34.14 | ``Erik | ah, seperate |
| 02:34.23 | Twingy | 4oz tanks == 10-12 minute flights |
| 02:34.38 | Twingy | since you've only got 0.25 FX's drawing off them |
| 02:35.01 | Twingy | I've got a pair of 0.46 LA's I don't know what to do with yet |
| 02:35.16 | Twingy | need to get gerber junk into gcam |
| 02:35.52 | ``Erik | .46's would make a fairly big twin |
| 02:36.13 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:36.19 | Twingy | we've got like 100 0.60 |
| 02:36.23 | Twingy | 0.60's at work |
| 02:36.32 | Twingy | those'd make it move :) |
| 02:37.06 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 02:37.07 | Twingy | I might just buy a 0.60-0.90 plane and build that up |
| 02:37.18 | Twingy | since I have 2 receivers and xmitters now |
| 02:37.29 | ``Erik | hm, still on the island? |
| 02:37.47 | Twingy | http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHCR7&P=0 |
| 02:37.49 | Twingy | bought that |
| 02:37.57 | Twingy | should be here next week |
| 02:38.13 | Twingy | you can set it to any channel |
| 02:38.16 | Twingy | no crystal |
| 02:38.19 | ``Erik | cool |
| 02:38.40 | Twingy | yes, in fact spent half the day testing the autopilot |
| 02:38.44 | ``Erik | my futabu 6ch uses a crystal :/ |
| 02:38.50 | ``Erik | futuba |
| 02:38.58 | Twingy | hehe |
| 02:38.59 | Twingy | fu tabu |
| 02:39.13 | Twingy | brian hates the futabas |
| 02:39.17 | Twingy | he's all JR |
| 02:39.26 | Twingy | I'm liking hitech stuff |
| 02:39.26 | ``Erik | bah |
| 02:39.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, I disabled the script just in case |
| 02:39.41 | Twingy | I haven't had one of those in some time |
| 02:40.01 | Twingy | probly 8 months ago |
| 02:40.08 | ``Erik | aaanyways, if you get a little free time, you should take a few of us out to the island to show us your toys :) |
| 02:40.34 | Twingy | probably 2 weeks from now might be good |
| 02:40.44 | Twingy | I might have some neat stuff to demonstrate |
| 02:40.52 | ``Erik | cool |
| 02:41.46 | Twingy | we just got a box of neat stuff that will allow me to finish building my neat stuff |
| 02:41.55 | ``Erik | check this out... I had to update the fire escape maps... to mark the SIP rooms... so I did that... NOW the fucktard wants me to verify that the symbol I chose is ok for that map. ffs. |
| 02:42.12 | Twingy | you gotta get out of there... |
| 02:42.15 | ``Erik | no shit |
| 02:42.20 | Twingy | why won't you listen to me :) |
| 02:42.31 | Twingy | stop sitting with your thumb up your butt and move |
| 02:43.03 | Twingy | if I were you 'd be making phone calls left and right to CISD and HRED |
| 02:43.07 | ``Erik | <-- is putting effort towards it, installed latex on his machine so he can work on his resume o.O then got sidetracked *cough* |
| 02:43.19 | Twingy | outside or inside ARL? |
| 02:43.19 | ``Erik | hm, I've heard less than thrilling things about cisd lately |
| 02:43.37 | Twingy | CISD does alot of neat stuff with comms |
| 02:44.48 | ``Erik | I kinda sorta miss industry treatment... I mean, free coffee and tea are kinda minimal things... free popcorn, soda, and lunches are out there... total flex time, ... |
| 02:45.49 | Twingy | I like the job security until I can start my own company |
| 02:45.49 | ``Erik | no hassle telecommute, ... |
| 02:46.02 | ``Erik | yeah, that's kinda the big thing that has kept me here, heh |
| 02:46.08 | Twingy | plus some of the stuff I'm working with costs more than my house |
| 02:47.03 | Twingy | before you leave, I'd highly recommend finding a position that is < 50% mission funded |
| 02:47.16 | Twingy | that actually makes a huge difference |
| 02:47.41 | Twingy | < 50% mission typically means 6.0 and 6.1 funding plus independent research |
| 02:48.21 | Twingy | Maloeran, for the umpteenth million time, sucky management |
| 02:48.48 | ``Erik | *nod* in industry, the place would've gotten a serious gutting and had most if not all mgmt replaced |
| 02:49.03 | Twingy | you got back 10 years and where I was / where erik currently is was a hot spot |
| 02:49.18 | Maloeran | By the way Justin, when I said to Mark you suggested to look into engineering, architecture and medical applications for the raytracer... He suggested to sit down us three and talk about it. I don't think you'll be interested but I'm forwarding the message |
| 02:49.22 | ``Erik | 5, even |
| 02:50.08 | Twingy | Maloeran, let me sleep on it |
| 02:50.12 | Maloeran | Sure |
| 02:50.26 | Twingy | I started running again, got the juices flowing |
| 02:51.00 | Maloeran | Eheh, sounds good. I'm really getting lazy lately, I have so few needs for locomotion |
| 02:51.17 | Twingy | I'll run after work for the next couple of months |
| 02:51.44 | Twingy | my brain spews out clever ideas when running |
| 02:52.32 | Maloeran | Neat. It doesn't happen to me when running, it happens when coming back to idle on the sofa for 10 minutes, exhausted |
| 02:52.47 | Twingy | ah, that's when stomach kicks in and wants 10lbs of pasta |
| 02:52.54 | Maloeran | Eheh, that too |
| 02:53.10 | Twingy | mmm triptophan |
| 02:53.29 | Twingy | the sleepy happy make you feel good chemical |
| 02:54.01 | Twingy | got 15k rpm disks in it? |
| 02:54.25 | Maloeran | Eheh quite not, it's only geared towards computations |
| 02:55.41 | Twingy | bet they'd increase compile speed by 10-20% |
| 02:55.56 | Twingy | Maloeran, setup a ram disk |
| 02:55.59 | Twingy | compile on that |
| 02:56.24 | Maloeran | *nods* I'm more looking forward to testing raytracing |
| 02:57.02 | Twingy | I've probly spent $800 on r/c stuff in the last 2 months |
| 02:57.34 | Maloeran | r/c? |
| 02:58.34 | Twingy | radio control |
| 02:58.50 | Twingy | haven even started dumping money on the electronics for the rocket yet |
| 02:58.57 | Twingy | but I got the shopping list ready |
| 02:59.56 | Maloeran | Ah. I spent 4000USD on that box, but I don't do that too often |
| 03:01.03 | ``Erik | dayamn |
| 03:01.42 | ``Erik | <-- spent like $700 on his laptop, like $400 on his last x86 |
| 03:01.50 | Twingy | I figure the gyros, accelerometers, gps, and modem alone will cost me $150 |
| 03:02.01 | ``Erik | I'm, like, moving towards kermit behavior, I guess :D |
| 03:02.04 | Maloeran | And how much on that car, Erik? :) |
| 03:02.11 | ``Erik | erm |
| 03:02.15 | ``Erik | a bit more than 4k |
| 03:02.22 | Twingy | how many gigglehurts is it |
| 03:02.30 | ``Erik | well |
| 03:02.44 | ``Erik | the last one has some giggles, and then some hurts... not at the same time, though |
| 03:02.49 | ``Erik | had |
| 03:02.59 | Maloeran | 8 * 1.6ghz of the latest Intel Xeon chip, improved server-grade Core 2 |
| 03:03.03 | ``Erik | so far,t his one is just giggles, no hurts yet, hopefully won't get there :) |
| 03:03.11 | Twingy | I don't think I ever saw what happened to the last one |
| 03:03.23 | ``Erik | other than the sharp stabbing pain in my right buttcheek, where my wallet sits |
| 03:03.40 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/ |
| 03:03.49 | ``Erik | camera is fucked up |
| 03:04.15 | Maloeran | Was it really just some patch of grass? That's what you said at the time, doubts remain.. |
| 03:04.21 | Twingy | you killed the car |
| 03:04.33 | ``Erik | the grass got me sliding without control |
| 03:04.36 | Twingy | you hit a patch of grass? |
| 03:04.39 | ``Erik | two trees got it rolling |
| 03:04.44 | ``Erik | then slide across the road upside down |
| 03:04.49 | Twingy | how do slide out of control on a patch of grass? |
| 03:04.50 | ``Erik | and hit an embankment and two more trees |
| 03:04.59 | Twingy | were you doing one of your crazy 0 - mach3 stunts? |
| 03:05.04 | ``Erik | then came to rest on the road on the passenger side |
| 03:05.07 | Maloeran | That's some fearful grass.. It's the first step I find difficult to imagine |
| 03:05.22 | ``Erik | left curve over a crest, got the right wheels in the grass in a ditch... |
| 03:05.35 | Twingy | ok |
| 03:05.38 | Twingy | you were on a road |
| 03:05.42 | Twingy | you started accelerating |
| 03:05.48 | Twingy | then grass came out of nowhere? |
| 03:05.58 | Maloeran | Were you speeding or accelerating too fast?.. |
| 03:06.00 | ``Erik | no, level speed, and I was just running too wide |
| 03:06.13 | ``Erik | and dicking with my phone *cough* |
| 03:06.13 | Twingy | running too wide? what's that mean |
| 03:06.35 | ``Erik | uh, driving too close to the shoulder? |
| 03:06.43 | ``Erik | and not turning in tight enough? |
| 03:06.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:07.03 | Maloeran | Ah, so there's a cell phone factor involved *nods* |
| 03:07.03 | ``Erik | <-- may not have exactly been completely below the speed limit |
| 03:07.20 | Twingy | and, if you don't mind me asking, how much did the insurance cover? |
| 03:07.40 | ``Erik | quite a bit |
| 03:07.45 | Twingy | all of it? |
| 03:07.54 | ``Erik | um, less a grand or two |
| 03:08.08 | Twingy | guess those high insurance rates paid off |
| 03:08.26 | ``Erik | heh, yeah |
| 03:08.28 | Twingy | my insurance is set to like bottom of the barrel |
| 03:08.35 | Twingy | like $121/mo |
| 03:08.39 | Twingy | for like $15k coverage |
| 03:08.39 | ``Erik | then I got a letter saying my insurance was going up seventeen point something % |
| 03:08.57 | Twingy | so they are going to get their money back from insurance |
| 03:08.58 | ``Erik | and got the fee, went DOWN a fair bit |
| 03:09.34 | ``Erik | <-- was paying ~169/mo, now paying 135/mo for jacked up %'s on a sports car with a total and two tickets... |
| 03:09.39 | Twingy | did you get any money for the scrap? |
| 03:09.42 | ``Erik | no |
| 03:09.48 | Twingy | how come? |
| 03:09.56 | ``Erik | they own it when they pay it off |
| 03:10.01 | Twingy | ah |
| 03:10.09 | ``Erik | to get my insurance check, I handed over keys and signed the title over |
| 03:10.27 | Twingy | I woulda took a few parts |
| 03:10.30 | Maloeran | Eheh, keys were a nice symbolic gesture |
| 03:10.34 | ``Erik | I have a few parts in my basement |
| 03:10.37 | ``Erik | and one of the keys |
| 03:10.57 | Twingy | in case you want to break into the pile of scrap iron |
| 03:11.02 | ``Erik | unfortunately, I took the bmw emblem, not the fucking m3 emblem :/ |
| 03:11.41 | ``Erik | *shrug* I kinda miss the blue |
| 03:12.20 | ``Erik | but the one I have now is less conspicuous and a little sportier (shortthrow shifter, aluminum pedals (GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY CAR, TWINGY), dvd nav, ...) |
| 03:12.37 | ``Erik | um, miguel in wmrd bought a laguna seca m3 after seeing mine |
| 03:12.39 | Twingy | I got more aluminum than I know what to do with |
| 03:12.47 | ``Erik | he parks behind 390 |
| 03:12.53 | Twingy | I'm very very close to cutting the first prototype motor |
| 03:12.57 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 03:13.14 | Twingy | I almost have the jig finished cutting from MDF |
| 03:13.16 | ``Erik | I'm eager to see a sketch or model or even description of what makes it special :) |
| 03:13.43 | Twingy | what makes it special is it's KISS simplicity |
| 03:13.43 | ``Erik | and if ya want a pencil jockey to crunch formulas or numbers, lemme know :D |
| 03:14.16 | Twingy | one of those why didn't I think of that deals |
| 03:14.56 | ``Erik | <-- thinks he gets more of a kick out of the theoretical side and crunching data than the machining |
| 03:15.14 | ``Erik | though test burns are cool... |
| 03:16.06 | Twingy | I'm actually looking forward to the first round of tests |
| 03:16.18 | Twingy | this will be new territory for me |
| 03:16.27 | ``Erik | where ya gonna light things up at? sandy hook? or the school? |
| 03:16.36 | Twingy | probly my garage at first |
| 03:16.56 | ``Erik | hm |
| 03:17.09 | Twingy | it can't explode, so there's no real danger |
| 03:17.09 | ``Erik | got an ABC fire extinguisher? |
| 03:17.15 | Twingy | I got 2 |
| 03:17.29 | ``Erik | okie, make sure one is out in the garage when ya kick it off :) |
| 03:18.10 | ``Erik | my kitche one dropped below the 'green' range, so I used it out on my deck |
| 03:18.14 | ``Erik | that's kinda fun |
| 03:18.22 | ``Erik | but the yellow powder gets freakin' everywhere |
| 03:18.39 | Twingy | then you locked yourself outside and had to break a window to get in? |
| 03:18.43 | ``Erik | heh, nah |
| 03:18.47 | Twingy | :) |
| 03:19.01 | Maloeran | Nice Erik, that reveals an aspect of your cooking talents :) |
| 03:19.02 | ``Erik | my finger isn't stiched on right now, I can jump down to the ground |
| 03:19.26 | ``Erik | what, that I've never had a fire extinguisher grade fire in the last 4 yrs? |
| 03:20.20 | Maloeran | Well, that you had to use your kitchen fire extinguisher down to below the green range |
| 03:20.33 | ``Erik | they are pressured, they lose pressure over time |
| 03:20.42 | Maloeran | Oh. |
| 03:20.45 | ``Erik | and the first time you use one, it drops below green |
| 03:21.10 | ``Erik | <-- has never had an uncontrolled fire :) |
| 03:21.32 | Twingy | I've only had explosions |
| 03:21.57 | ``Erik | yeah, but half the time, you cook rocket fuel in your kitchen :D |
| 03:22.34 | Twingy | I still don't know what I'm going to do with all that potassium nitrate, I will probably never make KNDX propellant again |
| 03:22.52 | Twingy | might just throw it in the yard for fertilizer |
| 03:22.54 | ``Erik | make a garden box in your back yard |
| 03:22.58 | Twingy | yep |
| 03:23.20 | Twingy | I am gonna get a tiller this summer and fix my yard |
| 03:23.27 | ``Erik | in missouri, I had two 4x8' boxes... half of one was all green onions... whenever I made an omelete, I'd go out, pull a couple, wash 'em and slice 'em up |
| 03:23.28 | Twingy | I've got the worst fucking soil |
| 03:23.30 | ``Erik | good stuff |
| 03:23.35 | ``Erik | hey, at least you HAVE soil |
| 03:23.39 | ``Erik | hafl my back yard is clay |
| 03:24.20 | Twingy | mine takes half an hour to dig a foot |
| 03:24.20 | ``Erik | the other half is stone and broken concrete |
| 03:24.20 | Twingy | like a fucking steam roller went over it |
| 03:24.21 | Twingy | pisses me off |
| 03:24.22 | ``Erik | development housing soil :( |
| 03:24.41 | Twingy | after I till it I'll throw down sod |
| 03:24.43 | ``Erik | I took my pickaxe to break up the clay some so the grass could grow through |
| 03:24.49 | Twingy | do a sprinkler system first |
| 03:24.52 | ``Erik | almost every swing was into stone with sparks flying |
| 03:25.05 | Twingy | then lay down a few hundred square feet of brick |
| 03:25.48 | ``Erik | my neighbors put down brick under their deck, took the dude a fair amount of time, said it was a LOT harder than he figured |
| 03:26.00 | Twingy | he was probably doing it wrong |
| 03:26.11 | Twingy | I figure I'll bang it out in a few weekends |
| 03:26.25 | ``Erik | I d'no, looked fairly stadnard to me... dug it up, put down the gravel, then started packing bricks |
| 03:26.38 | Twingy | didn't put sand down? |
| 03:26.45 | ``Erik | I don't know |
| 03:26.51 | ``Erik | I didn't pay TOO much attention... :) |
| 03:26.55 | Twingy | gotta put down black tarp, then sand |
| 03:27.02 | Twingy | keeps the weeds out |
| 03:27.16 | ``Erik | this is snugged on the north side of the house |
| 03:27.19 | ``Erik | grass won't grow, just moss |
| 03:27.36 | ``Erik | so even if he did forget the black plastic, it wouldn't be the end of the world |
| 03:27.45 | Twingy | I'm gonna use big stone bricks |
| 03:28.12 | ``Erik | <-- might try something like that over the summer |
| 03:28.50 | ``Erik | I think I want to redo my entry :/ |
| 04:00.25 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:02.30 | IriX64 | say can rtedge be used from the gui? |
| 04:07.59 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/367136 <<< === it can but what am i doing wrong here? |
| 04:14.36 | IriX64 | maybe not bldg391 faills too on this command rtedge all |
| 04:18.33 | brlcad | IriX64: it's like rt, just type rtedge |
| 04:18.48 | IriX64 | ty |
| 04:18.52 | brlcad | an argument of havoc tells it to open a geometry file named "havoc", which does not exist |
| 04:19.13 | IriX64 | explained thank you. |
| 04:19.28 | brlcad | if you run rtedge on the unix command line, you have to specify the file and geometry |
| 04:19.45 | IriX64 | never tried that. |
| 04:19.45 | brlcad | on the mged command line, just e the object (or select it in the geometry browser), then run rtedge |
| 04:19.58 | Maloeran | Anyone knows what the Linux "migration" process is? I can't find any information on google besides being told how to migrate from windows to Linux |
| 04:20.00 | IriX64 | got it thanks. |
| 04:20.05 | brlcad | e or draw or whatever you use :) |
| 04:20.16 | IriX64 | heh thanks. |
| 04:20.32 | brlcad | Maloeran: I think Linux migrates south for the winter around October |
| 04:21.08 | IriX64 | heh that's geese ;) |
| 04:21.26 | brlcad | http://www.falklandsconservation.com/penguins/pengmig.html |
| 04:21.39 | brlcad | they even draw you pretty pictures ;) |
| 04:23.21 | Maloeran | All right, I'll be satified with answers on penguins and Linux OS migration :) |
| 04:24.05 | IriX64 | so now i'm a penguin ;) |
| 04:24.42 | Maloeran | I'm used to know what every process running is, but that's a new one in the default Gentoo scripts. There's one assigned to every core, I guess it's for some kind of process/thread migration |
| 04:26.05 | IriX64 | mct=master control thread. |
| 04:27.09 | IriX64 | watch the default stack sizes though :) |
| 04:30.11 | brlcad | Maloeran: what exactly are you asking? from what it sounds, seems like gentoo is offering you options on what processor affinity settings you want? |
| 04:31.34 | brlcad | or how to actually do full-blown process migration between cpus in a cluster ala mosix or what? |
| 04:32.01 | Maloeran | 8 processes named "migration" are launched by the gentoo boot scripts. They have no man pages, no documentation, and google can't tell much |
| 04:32.17 | brlcad | ahhhh |
| 04:32.32 | brlcad | i totally read what you wrote differently :) |
| 04:32.39 | Maloeran | I realized :) |
| 04:32.52 | Maloeran | The page about penguins is still interesting though |
| 04:33.02 | brlcad | heh, that was in jest, but even afterwards ;) |
| 04:35.01 | brlcad | wow, a search turns up some work mike muuss did years ago on a migration daemon |
| 04:35.04 | brlcad | http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/88bump-pit/bump.html |
| 04:35.17 | brlcad | totally unrelated, but quite ironic |
| 04:35.31 | brlcad | well, at least probably unrelated .. |
| 04:36.28 | Maloeran | Curious ideas on file system migration |
| 04:37.25 | brlcad | mm.. transparent file migration |
| 04:38.02 | brlcad | a holy grail that we still don't have, a transparent global shared network file store |
| 04:38.09 | Maloeran | IriX64, typical master/slaves design, my raytracer works like that ; both for threads and fpr network processing |
| 04:38.27 | IriX64 | with someone in charge? |
| 04:38.38 | IriX64 | rt shelling it out? |
| 04:38.54 | Maloeran | Indeed brlcad, yet it doesn't seem so hard to implement |
| 04:39.51 | Maloeran | Except for files that wouldn't fit on one single physical device and would have to be broken into pieces by the driver, that's more messy |
| 04:40.40 | brlcad | I know of several projects that do it, and work well |
| 04:40.56 | brlcad | it's more the practical issues of getting OS standardization/cooperation |
| 04:41.43 | brlcad | google's probably in the best position to get that going actually, with the mass file stores, using machines across the internet and pseudo shared drives |
| 04:42.02 | brlcad | Maloeran: see which package the file belongs to, might give a lead |
| 04:42.09 | brlcad | epm -qf `whereis migration` |
| 04:42.31 | brlcad | or locate or whatever to actual file |
| 04:43.23 | brlcad | qpkg should do the trick too |
| 04:47.54 | Maloeran | Yes, apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm not |
| 04:48.02 | Maloeran | Oops, nevermind |
| 04:52.43 | IriX64 | ``Erik how bigs *your fbsd BRL-CAD tar.gz? ;) |
| 04:52.50 | Maloeran | I never bothered to really learn the client, the first irc client I found on Linux many years ago |
| 04:53.22 | IriX64 | my first on unix was good olle irc |
| 04:53.33 | IriX64 | ircii |
| 04:53.41 | louipc | oh yeah |
| 04:54.33 | brlcad | irssi is the path to enlightenment |
| 04:55.00 | IriX64 | just don't type control c on a system like mine. :) |
| 04:57.11 | IriX64 | louipc i guess standard 60Hz what think you? |
| 04:57.32 | louipc | I've never owned an LCD |
| 04:57.52 | louipc | my system is 6yrs old eh |
| 04:57.56 | IriX64 | haven't got a calculator eh? ;) |
| 04:58.16 | louipc | oh? how do I do it? |
| 04:58.28 | IriX64 | you tell me. |
| 04:58.34 | louipc | I've no clue |
| 04:58.54 | louipc | LCDs can't be faster than CRTs though can they? |
| 05:00.12 | IriX64 | lcds operate on a charged pixel basis, crt, actually provide a beam to lite an entire row of pixels, lcds try to get each individually. |
| 05:00.31 | Maloeran | I think they have become close to equivalent in quality, hence why I tried my first LCD |
| 05:01.12 | IriX64 | i like to open my system up, ergo i prolly will never own a laptop or notebook. |
| 05:01.14 | louipc | I thought it was just price... or LCDs might be cheaper now |
| 05:01.42 | louipc | IriX64: why not open up the notebook? |
| 05:01.53 | IriX64 | and do what exactly? |
| 05:01.58 | louipc | tinker |
| 05:02.19 | IriX64 | one look convinces they should not be tinkered with. |
| 05:03.01 | Maloeran | LCDs still seem to have problems with the black "color", it's not quite as black as my Viewsonic CRT |
| 05:03.35 | IriX64 | its the screen mask your seeing. |
| 05:04.59 | louipc | lol |
| 05:05.22 | Maloeran | Print your own, 5 lines of code ;) |
| 05:10.12 | brlcad | LCDs have exceptionally low "refresh rates" compared to CRTs and are usually in the 20-100Hz range, 60Hz is pretty common |
| 05:10.44 | brlcad | but since they are "charged" as IriX64 noted, it doesn't mean nearly the same |
| 05:11.30 | brlcad | there's generally no "scanline flickering" for example, as there is no scanline beam, the image just has a burn in/out time |
| 05:12.37 | brlcad | one of the things that can make gaming painful on crappy LCDs (and even high-end ones in general) because of image motion and high response times |
| 05:13.10 | brlcad | not as much of a problem these days, most LCDs are "good enough" at the 60 Hz range |
| 05:18.14 | Maloeran | This 5ms response time would be equivalent to 200hz, that's quite high |
| 05:29.04 | IriX64 | Maloeran: why don't i just use 'g' :) |
| 05:50.08 | Maloeran | Hum. 60 million rays per second, 100fps in 800x600 |
| 05:50.55 | IriX64 | just which laptop model is that ? ;) |
| 05:51.44 | Maloeran | A big heavy and noisy laptop, it's not comfortable at all sitting on my lap :) |
| 05:51.53 | IriX64 | 100fps? I get 2.8-12.0 depending. |
| 05:52.40 | Maloeran | This is not the raytracer you see in BRL-CAD, I'm talking about rendering 100 full frames of first-hit per second |
| 05:53.08 | IriX64 | was gonna comment about penguins :) |
| 05:56.02 | brlcad | heh, http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7848/image001ac0.jpg |
| 05:56.15 | IriX64 | first write loop unrolling and jump optimizations amongst other things into your compiler then recompile. |
| 05:57.20 | IriX64 | thought that was spelled doughnuts brlcad. |
| 06:01.23 | IriX64 | anybody with g-jack.exe, could you give me an approximate byte size? |
| 06:03.31 | Maloeran | I don't think you'll find a lot of people with .exe files here... |
| 06:04.50 | IriX64 | equivelent will do. |
| 06:08.02 | IriX64 | louipc will fbsd still run an exe file? |
| 06:18.50 | brlcad | tofu:~ morrison$ ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/g-jack |
| 06:18.51 | brlcad | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 52860 Aug 11 2006 /usr/brlcad/bin/g-jack |
| 06:18.53 | brlcad | 58k |
| 06:19.01 | brlcad | er 52 |
| 06:19.06 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/ <==== looksee |
| 06:19.09 | IriX64 | ty |
| 06:22.02 | brlcad | can't imagine what that number would be useful for, comparing apples and kiwis |
| 06:24.28 | IriX64 | I'm sorta bloated :) |
| 06:26.34 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 07:02.59 | brlcad | you're probably compiled static, it's not the same comparison |
| 07:21.00 | IriX64 | trew :) |
| 08:16.14 | IriX64 | my "space" eh microsoft? reeks of bait, but what you gonna do? :) |
| 09:25.50 | IriX64 | btw that pix of Mr. Brlcad came from Aberdeeen city records, when i stumbled on BRL-CAD I did a little research. |
| 10:39.38 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 12:45.21 | *** join/#brlcad cad86 (n=550c4101@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:00.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/wdb.h: remove the conditional compilation of the mk_brep function |
| 15:04.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix several bugs in the implementation of RT_MemoryArchive. remove use of dynamic_cast. |
| 15:15.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: provide function table stubs for good behavior when openNURBS is not built |
| 15:18.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (brep.cpp Makefile.am): provide a C stub of mk_brep when openNURBS is not built. prevent NULL breps to mk_brep |
| 15:21.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep_stub.c: provide a C stub of mk_brep when openNURBS is not built. |
| 15:26.00 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 15:41.09 | Maloeran | Anyone could use an user on a 8 cores box? Though I'm sure you guys got access to 1024 processors on a daily basis :) |
| 15:57.42 | ``Erik | the biggies are a hassle, but i have three 8 core opterons at my disposal... heh :D |
| 15:58.08 | ``Erik | so unless you're loading something other than linux... O:-) |
| 15:59.18 | ``Erik | http://www.cuisinenet.com/digest/breakfast/map_world.shtml |
| 16:01.07 | Maloeran | Ahah, neat |
| 16:03.46 | ``Erik | heh, like the old LISA, yes |
| 16:03.53 | ``Erik | oriented the way a paper would be |
| 16:04.15 | ``Erik | which is why i rail on having 'start bars' or 'docks' or whatever at the bottom instead of the side :D |
| 16:05.05 | Maloeran | Good point :) |
| 16:19.43 | clock_ | Maloeran: what about 87 degrees? |
| 16:42.17 | Maloeran | That could be amusing too |
| 17:51.48 | ``Erik | 87 degrees? is that like a boy band? |
| 18:21.15 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/nmg_bool.c): add flag to silence nmg boolean eval |
| 18:44.37 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-214.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:11.34 | brlcad | Maloeran: I believe you can, but there's an issue with that |
| 19:12.16 | brlcad | the underlying smooth anti-aliasing that X (and most graphical interfaces) does for LCD displays takes advantage of the RGB interleave |
| 19:13.15 | brlcad | you end up with nasty aliasing effects if you simply tell X11/xorg to rotate the display without updating the display system to do something different for anti-aliasing |
| 20:13.30 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 20:49.05 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 21:12.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:19.14 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:24.33 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368141 <------ ``Erik I'm trying :) |
| 21:34.31 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368154 < --- this though happens every time i try to build BRL-CAD with shared libs enabled and I *can't find it. |
| 21:35.01 | IriX64 | --disable-shared is a workaround but... |
| 21:39.22 | IriX64 | louipc have you tried? |
| 21:40.08 | brlcad | IriX64: try installing libpng on your own |
| 21:40.35 | IriX64 | change dir to libpng and compiule and link you mean. |
| 21:40.45 | IriX64 | compile too |
| 21:41.02 | IriX64 | ill try that. |
| 21:43.17 | IriX64 | an hour from now, i'm going to let this run complete (or error out) :) |
| 21:44.02 | IriX64 | could try it on the backup tree but im leary of dinking around in there. |
| 21:55.08 | IriX64 | ill try configuring exactly the same way and will switch to libpng. |
| 22:03.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368180 <--- brlcad doing it that way yields this output. |
| 22:18.28 | brlcad | IriX64: that's not what i meant |
| 22:18.46 | brlcad | i meant go get libpng, compile it and install it or find a cygwin package for it |
| 22:18.49 | IriX64 | hrmm? |
| 22:19.21 | IriX64 | to get by it you mean, ill just run with --disable-shared but ty. |
| 22:19.36 | brlcad | but your second error pastebin is actually considerably more informative |
| 22:19.48 | brlcad | that shows the real error |
| 22:20.01 | IriX64 | hope it helps. |
| 22:20.19 | brlcad | well, it looks like something goofed in src/other/libz |
| 22:20.31 | brlcad | *** Warning: This system can not link to static lib archive ../../../src/other/l |
| 22:20.32 | brlcad | ibz/libz.la. |
| 22:20.37 | IriX64 | dunno, i'm not that good :) |
| 22:20.51 | brlcad | there should also be a shared one in there |
| 22:21.13 | IriX64 | ty ill check. |
| 22:21.14 | brlcad | what does this report: ls -la src/other/libz/.libs/libz* |
| 22:22.02 | IriX64 | no such file or directory. |
| 22:22.27 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 22:23.34 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368213 |
| 22:23.53 | IriX64 | gotta run an errand brbr well in a few minutes. |
| 22:26.30 | Maloeran | Can anyone confirm my assumption that laptops are as vulnerable to low temperatures as desktops, hence one shouldn't boot one which stayed a hour at -10C? |
| 22:29.07 | dtidrow_work | I would say yes, though that's mainly for the hard drive |
| 22:29.25 | dtidrow_work | I imagine that the bearings might get rather sticky at those temps |
| 22:30.17 | ``Erik | laptop hdd's (and fans) tend to be smaller with smaller tolerances, though, I'd imagine that'd make them more susceptable to heat contraction and expansion, no? |
| 22:30.27 | ``Erik | <-- obviously has no clue what he's talking about :D |
| 22:30.32 | ``Erik | later, dudes, headin' home |
| 22:30.35 | brlcad | IriX64: that's rather incorrect.. |
| 22:30.41 | brlcad | to only have the .a |
| 22:31.11 | brlcad | cd src/other/libz and try a make .. see if it links a libz.so or .dll or whatever it does under cygwin |
| 22:31.52 | brlcad | if it still doesn't make it, do a make clean there, then make again .. see if there's any message in the output as to why a shared library isn't built |
| 22:36.47 | IriX64 | did a make clean there before i started but ill check. |
| 22:38.02 | IriX64 | doing libz will give you the whole thing. |
| 22:39.09 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368227 |
| 22:41.22 | IriX64 | Maloeran a cup of warm broth would do wonders for that chilly laptop :) |
| 22:47.09 | IriX64 | btw it does .so under cygwin. |
| 22:51.07 | brlcad | IriX64: ls -la .libs/libz* |
| 22:53.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368242 |
| 22:55.19 | IriX64 | mmm a teddy...err wait thats toddy ;) |
| 22:55.27 | brlcad | huh |
| 22:55.31 | brlcad | there it built it |
| 22:55.48 | brlcad | some sort of wierd timing |
| 22:56.01 | brlcad | cd ../../.. && make |
| 22:56.14 | brlcad | libpng should do better this time |
| 22:57.49 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368245 |
| 22:59.41 | brlcad | cd src/other/libpng && make clean && cd ../../.. && make |
| 23:02.49 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368253 |
| 23:04.41 | brlcad | hrm, that's rather useless .. ld just fails with no error |
| 23:04.53 | IriX64 | agreed |
| 23:05.42 | IriX64 | its not something i did i think because it did it very first build before i touched anything. |
| 23:06.23 | brlcad | i don't think it's anything you've done |
| 23:06.35 | brlcad | i think it's an environment/ld/cygwin issue |
| 23:06.51 | brlcad | would have to see if there's an ld flag or something to get more verbose output |
| 23:07.00 | brlcad | maybe remove the --silent libtool flag |
| 23:07.47 | brlcad | try adding ./configure --enable-build-progress |
| 23:07.57 | IriX64 | part of this is my fault, that darn error should be more informative. let me try something. |
| 23:08.01 | brlcad | don't remember if that was added before 7.8.4 or after |
| 23:08.17 | brlcad | grep bc_build_progress configure.ac |
| 23:08.22 | brlcad | it should return a line or two |
| 23:08.56 | brlcad | if it does, rerun configure with --enable-build-progress and see if libpng's failure is more informative |
| 23:11.45 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368263 |
| 23:12.44 | brlcad | heh, i don't need to see it |
| 23:12.50 | brlcad | just "if it does" .... |
| 23:13.04 | IriX64 | reconfiguring, doin a clean first. |
| 23:16.48 | IriX64 | could it be that version number on the .so? version mismatch or something, mmm but that doesn't explaiun the undefs. |
| 23:21.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368273 |
| 23:21.22 | IriX64 | bbiab. |
| 23:35.23 | brlcad | still no error message -- looks like an ld bug to me, but that's not something I can debug easily without sitting at a console and testinging and checking lots of things |
| 23:37.34 | IriX64 | brlcad: I agree, its got to be this .so.2.24 thing, not being handles properly, tried an eggdrop compile and i have no problem with .so modules. |
| 23:38.21 | IriX64 | many thanks (and apologies to pastebin.ca for cluttering them up ) |
| 00:04.36 | ``Erik | IriX64 ... .exe files are PF executables, fbsd uses ELF or QMAGIC executables... there's no way it can run.. |
| 00:05.49 | IriX64 | im from missourrii , show me. |
| 00:06.00 | ``Erik | ... go hop on a linux or freebsd box |
| 00:06.04 | ``Erik | and try to run a windows executable. |
| 00:06.07 | ``Erik | without using an emulator. |
| 00:06.12 | ``Erik | then you'll be shown |
| 00:06.41 | IriX64 | $ uptime |
| 00:06.41 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.41 | IriX64 | IriX64@FthrNtr ~/brlcad-7.8.4 |
| 00:06.41 | IriX64 | $ |
| 00:06.51 | IriX64 | this is on a windows machine. |
| 00:07.29 | IriX64 | crap should have pastebinned, sorry. :( |
| 00:07.32 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:07.35 | ``Erik | not a windows machine |
| 00:07.36 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:08.26 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:08.33 | ``Erik | also not a windows machine... :D |
| 00:08.39 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:08.57 | ``Erik | you can tell by the uptime... O:-) |
| 00:09.07 | IriX64 | you can tell mine by the short time its been up. :) |
| 00:09.13 | Maloeran | Tsk, such high uptimes are a sign that you don't overclock enough! |
| 00:09.20 | IriX64 | heh |
| 00:10.30 | ``Erik | heh, these are machines meant for reliability... |
| 00:11.02 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.17 | Maloeran | Oops |
| 00:11.22 | Maloeran | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.27 | ``Erik | hearing an old woman bark "who do I have to gum to get a refill?" is disturbing |
| 00:12.29 | ``Erik | (was on simpsons... mal, urban dictionary for 'gumjob' ... O:-) ) |
| 00:12.30 | Maloeran | I think I don't want to look up other meanings of the verb "to gum" that I'm not familiar with |
| 00:12.51 | ``Erik | perhaps a wise move |
| 00:13.09 | IriX64 | juciy fruit? :) |
| 00:13.36 | IriX64 | thats chewing gum |
| 00:14.13 | ``Erik | doublemint, yo, hook me up with some hot twins ;) |
| 00:14.27 | IriX64 | heh sen sen |
| 00:17.32 | IriX64 | copy pretty.exe pretty.a pretty.a <---- still runs |
| 00:18.02 | ``Erik | ... on windows, yes. |
| 00:18.06 | ``Erik | because it's still a PF binary... |
| 00:18.10 | ``Erik | it is NOT an elf binary |
| 00:18.26 | ``Erik | here, let me send you an ELF binary, lets see if you can run it... |
| 00:18.41 | IriX64 | was producedto be no matter what its called. |
| 00:19.11 | IriX64 | quite right |
| 00:19.30 | IriX64 | rt11 rawks ``Erik. :) |
| 00:19.39 | IriX64 | RT11 get it right. |
| 00:20.09 | ``Erik | aaaaand you know this from experience? no? thought so :D |
| 00:21.08 | IriX64 | Why can't i produce an ELF binary and call it whatever i want? |
| 00:21.15 | Maloeran | You can't produce ELF binaries on windows. Windows uses that MZ thing |
| 00:21.41 | IriX64 | gcc cannot produce elf binaries? since when |
| 00:21.42 | IriX64 | ? |
| 00:21.57 | Maloeran | gcc produces binaries that are appropriate for your platform, unless you cross-compile |
| 00:22.06 | ``Erik | uh, if you install a normal gcc on windows, it cannot produce elf binaries |
| 00:22.08 | Maloeran | And when you cross-compile, you can't execute the binaries meant for the target platform |
| 00:22.41 | Maloeran | IriX64, just install Linux and play around with it |
| 00:23.05 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368340 |
| 00:23.33 | ``Erik | ... yes... and? |
| 00:23.47 | IriX64 | Maloeran: illegal instruction trap, handalable without bailing? |
| 00:24.28 | Maloeran | You can catch the SIGILL signal, yes |
| 00:24.53 | Maloeran | SIGKILL and SIGSTOP are the only two you can't catch |
| 00:24.57 | IriX64 | and try to find a cygwin entry point ie your MZ thing |
| 00:25.33 | IriX64 | exe is huge but 200gig drive here *shrug* |
| 00:26.07 | Maloeran | I really recommend to repartition and install Linux, you'll get some good and more varied experience |
| 00:26.36 | IriX64 | had linux on vmware. |
| 00:26.43 | Maloeran | Real Linux ;) |
| 00:26.59 | IriX64 | its vmware thats not real ;) |
| 00:27.35 | ``Erik | (or fbsd, or nbsd, or obsd, or dragonfly, or minix, or zetaos, or ...) |
| 00:27.59 | ``Erik | solaris-x86, ... |
| 00:28.18 | Maloeran | He'll suffer less with Linux |
| 00:28.29 | ``Erik | I'd disagree |
| 00:28.37 | ``Erik | YOU suffer less with linux because you're familiar with linux |
| 00:28.44 | ``Erik | just like irix suffers less with windows right now |
| 00:28.59 | ``Erik | man, that sentence sounded dirty, irix64 needs a new nick o.O |
| 00:29.20 | Maloeran | I think there are Linux distributions far friendlier than FreeBSD... |
| 00:29.33 | Maloeran | And he's not quite ready for Gentoo or Linux from scratch :) |
| 00:29.43 | ``Erik | there're bsd distributions far friendlier than fbsd, too |
| 00:29.46 | ``Erik | like pcbsd |
| 00:29.56 | Maloeran | Ah, never heard of it |
| 00:30.15 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/368347 <--this is the only piece of code ive ever written. :P |
| 00:31.12 | ``Erik | wow, there is so much wrong with that |
| 00:31.14 | ``Erik | *boggle* |
| 00:31.18 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 00:31.36 | Maloeran | Well, at least it's C and not Javascript or Basic |
| 00:31.54 | ``Erik | it's sorta C |
| 00:32.07 | IriX64 | C- i call it. |
| 00:32.49 | ``Erik | would that even compile with the args messed up? heh |
| 00:33.02 | Maloeran | I think it will compile with warnings |
| 00:33.19 | Maloeran | Well, assuming you got a compiler with conio.h and kbhit() of course |
| 00:33.35 | ``Erik | those're lib functions, not compiler things... |
| 00:33.50 | brlcad | reminds me of an old dos program I wrote a really long time ago |
| 00:34.30 | ``Erik | backward args, poor logic path, magic numbers, no indentation, etc? :D |
| 00:34.31 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 00:34.33 | brlcad | compiler too.. they're both int-castable values and main is in the compiler's realm |
| 00:39.26 | Maloeran | I never quite understood that one |
| 00:39.46 | ``Erik | *shrug* probably just weren't in the sym map |
| 00:40.11 | Maloeran | It's a low-level interrupt, can't get any closer to the hardware |
| 00:40.37 | ``Erik | dos may've caught the interrupt, didn't recognize it, and did an iret without pushing it |
| 00:40.37 | Maloeran | Eh no :), IriX64's archaic code brings back memories, old stuff I never figured out and still don't |
| 00:40.39 | IriX64 | kb too |
| 00:41.00 | IriX64 | getvect setvect how much fun is that. |
| 00:41.41 | IriX64 | btw ill have you know pretty runs just fine. |
| 00:45.03 | Maloeran | So how's that OS coming along, Erik? :) |
| 00:45.25 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!BFB9E7E9DA2BD02D!113&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=15&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum&_c02_owner=1 |
| 00:45.42 | IriX64 | i *wont do *that again sheez |
| 00:46.45 | ``Erik | haven't touched it in a while, mal, too much other stuff to do :( |
| 00:47.04 | IriX64 | ``Erik you write os? |
| 00:47.23 | ``Erik | in the grand scheme of things, that os is awfully low on the priority list |
| 00:47.45 | IriX64 | personal project then? |
| 00:47.57 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 00:48.12 | ``Erik | both my own os and most of my work with fbsd are personal projects |
| 00:48.30 | IriX64 | Based on or is this a new idea? |
| 00:49.39 | ``Erik | um, inspired by old lispos, with some other equally ancient ideas like automatic parallelism and distribution, stateful system coherency, etc |
| 00:50.57 | Maloeran | An OS with its own synchronisation mechanisms and interfaces geared up towards cluster processing could be amusing |
| 00:52.40 | Maloeran | IriX64, you seem to be motivated and have free time, you should pick up a C book and burn a Linux CD |
| 00:52.59 | ``Erik | or a bsd cd, or a solaris cd, or a zeta cd, or a ... |
| 00:53.10 | IriX64 | if any body cares, that Gesr thing is a paper tape reader/punch replacement for an industrial computer. |
| 00:54.42 | Maloeran | Or a Linux CD, and embark in a grandiose and wondrous adventure towards knowledge, the infinity and beyond! |
| 00:55.38 | IriX64 | can't wait till my spirit take flight. |
| 00:57.29 | ``Erik | <-- also stunted for learning basic as his first programming language :D |
| 00:57.56 | IriX64 | fortran here |
| 00:58.08 | IriX64 | WatIV |
| 00:58.14 | ``Erik | obviously not, irix. |
| 00:58.32 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:58.41 | IriX64 | WatIV is obvious? |
| 00:58.53 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:01.05 | Maloeran | Ouch Erik, Basic. I'm sorry, I didn't know... |
| 01:02.25 | IriX64 | need to tend to life. l8r. |
| 01:02.41 | Maloeran | I have used C and assembly rather exclusively, if you omit the attempts at getting used to other languages |
| 01:16.49 | louipc | I recommend archlinux :D |
| 01:17.51 | louipc | oh he left :P |
| 01:18.46 | Maloeran | Ubuntu is supposed to be very friendly though I heard some horror stories |
| 01:19.23 | Maloeran | A friend had an IDE controller or something that it didn't like somehow, and it would destroy cdrom drives systematically |
| 01:19.28 | louipc | horror or stories of discomfort? |
| 01:19.34 | louipc | that's horror |
| 01:22.12 | louipc | I just found it very uncomfortable |
| 01:23.50 | ``Erik | maybe you put the cd in the wrong place? |
| 01:24.25 | louipc | hah hah |
| 01:28.00 | Maloeran | for cutting, rather |
| 01:33.54 | Twingy | guess what |
| 01:34.05 | Twingy | time to go running |
| 02:52.24 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 05:51.50 | *** join/#brlcad justin_ (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 07:17.12 | Maloeran | brlcad, a stupid question, but if I make changes to librt's nmg_* functions, how can I test? :) |
| 07:17.42 | Maloeran | Also, may any fix to have triangles face the proper pay prove useless with the coming opennurbs updates? |
| 11:31.27 | *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:34.04 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |
| 12:50.07 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 13:34.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: make sure we can restore COPYING/INSTALL when automake decides to ignore our umask |
| 13:56.13 | brlcad | Maloeran: easiest would probably be to take one of the converters, e.g. g-stl or g-nmg and test |
| 13:57.34 | brlcad | and no, I don't think it'd be useless.. opennurbs has a *long* way to go to prove that it can replace nmg outright -- for now it's just going to be a new primitive, replacing tessellations would be something to try after that |
| 14:42.22 | *** join/#brlcad cad59 (n=c128fb04@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:45.21 | *** join/#brlcad cad59 (n=c128fb04@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:39.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: use common.h to wrap brlcad_config.h for external apps |
| 16:06.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Begin implementation of brep plot routine. start with coarse mesh from openNURBS. |
| 16:52.18 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Begin implementation of brep plot routine. actually use vlist to draw mesh. |
| 17:06.25 | brlcad | shibby |
| 17:23.26 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168049077.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:38.04 | IriX64 | http://www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 |
| 18:01.57 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: fill in ray origin and dir on shoot. Set nmg 'silent' flag. dup path. |
| 19:32.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: common.h should always be included before any system headers |
| 19:53.03 | IriX64 | ``Erik, so you admit I can produce ELF binaries on my toy windows systen ? :P |
| 19:53.11 | IriX64 | system too. |
| 19:54.37 | ``Erik | if you were to install a real ELF crosscompiler and knew how to use it, sure |
| 19:54.46 | ``Erik | ... |
| 19:54.50 | ``Erik | that's not an elf binary |
| 19:54.59 | ``Erik | do you have "file" installed? it's a program that tells you about a specified file |
| 19:55.02 | IriX64 | is now :) |
| 19:55.18 | ``Erik | it'll identify binaries and what format they are |
| 19:55.48 | ``Erik | $ file /usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 19:55.51 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad/bin/rt: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 19:55.56 | IriX64 | I have it. should use it , yes? :) |
| 19:56.03 | ``Erik | $ file /usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 19:56.06 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad/bin/rt: Mach-O executable ppc |
| 19:56.41 | ``Erik | you'll probably see something about a windows PE executable |
| 19:56.50 | Maloeran | The extension does not define what a file is, it's used by certain environments to decide the default actions when for the files |
| 19:57.02 | Maloeran | when interacting* with the files |
| 19:57.20 | ``Erik | certain stpid environments, good ones look at file magic *cough* |
| 19:57.48 | Maloeran | File magic is far slower |
| 19:58.05 | ``Erik | yes, .0001 seconds instead of .000001 seconds, ohs noes |
| 19:58.22 | IriX64 | $ file mged.exe |
| 19:58.22 | IriX64 | mged.exe: MS-DOS executable PE for MS Windows (console) Intel 80386 32-bit |
| 19:58.22 | IriX64 | IriX64@FthrNtr /usr/cygcad/bin |
| 19:58.46 | Maloeran | It's far slower than that, really. There are WMs and dekstops which run file for every file of a directory when you view it |
| 19:58.59 | Maloeran | And it crawls terribly, opening every file and checking its format |
| 19:59.36 | ``Erik | heh, nautilus does that, I think, and caches results... it even extracts images to provide thumbnails iirc *shrug* |
| 20:00.35 | Maloeran | rxvt is all the gui I need anyhow :) |
| 20:01.17 | Maloeran | I used both elelfm2 and gentoo for some time, I stopped using both when some bugs ( in *both* ) made the apparent selection be different from the real selection, causing me to delete files I did not want to |
| 20:02.09 | ``Erik | if you're too lame to delete files from the command line, use mc, it sucks less :D |
| 20:02.43 | Maloeran | Eh, I always use the command line now, I finally got used to it |
| 20:10.22 | IriX64 | how do you camman a line? :) |
| 20:10.26 | IriX64 | command too |
| 20:10.43 | Maloeran | With a sharp ruler |
| 20:10.57 | IriX64 | .me bows to Maloeran :P |
| 20:11.03 | IriX64 | err |
| 20:13.28 | IriX64 | err Maloeran ordered my ammunition confiscated. :) |
| 20:25.29 | Maloeran | Just install some Unix, you'll learn quite a bit. Pick Linux or FreeBSD, it will determine who of us two you can ask questions to |
| 20:25.50 | IriX64 | haaha I get it. thanks. |
| 20:30.15 | ``Erik | neat, adrt gives radically wrong answers, I must be using it wrong |
| 20:31.34 | Maloeran | That might be why it seems so slow |
| 20:31.46 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/37285 |
| 20:32.24 | Maloeran | Cool |
| 20:32.44 | ``Erik | 'firing' in the middle is origin -> direction |
| 20:32.58 | ``Erik | librt is first, then some adrt noise, then adrt results |
| 20:34.07 | ``Erik | the massive jitter on adrt's x/y is what concerns me at the moment, though the distances on the r212 region are kinda concerning |
| 20:34.50 | IriX64 | ``Erik? thats an rt shot? admitting my ignorance here. |
| 20:34.59 | ``Erik | sorta, yes |
| 20:35.10 | IriX64 | how's it done? |
| 20:35.10 | ``Erik | it's a partition biulding shot using two engines |
| 20:35.12 | ``Erik | uhhhh |
| 20:35.15 | ``Erik | software? :D |
| 20:35.18 | IriX64 | heh ty. |
| 20:35.25 | ``Erik | if you want to do a single ray by hand, check out "nirt" |
| 20:35.37 | Maloeran | I like these numbers. I think my code can fit well with that kind of accuracy |
| 20:35.47 | IriX64 | never played with all the gadgets but i think ill experiment. |
| 20:36.06 | ``Erik | hahaha, well, it's inexcusable accuracy :D I'm either doing osmething wrong, or tie is busted |
| 20:36.59 | ``Erik | the z is all correct, I think |
| 20:37.58 | IriX64 | get syntax errors in fron of all the BC_ stuff in configure. |
| 20:38.03 | ``Erik | but the 1.2% deviation is ... wow |
| 20:38.03 | IriX64 | front too. |
| 20:38.12 | ``Erik | aclocal -I ./m4 |
| 20:38.18 | ``Erik | or ./autogen.sh |
| 20:38.45 | IriX64 | ./autogen.sh works but you *should be able to run aclocal without switches. |
| 20:39.13 | IriX64 | the stuff is there but has syntax errors |
| 20:40.24 | ``Erik | the early autoconf'd version of brlcad didn't need that, talk to brlcad about it *shrug* |
| 20:40.36 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:46.19 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.19 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.19 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.22 | ``Erik | nice... :( |
| 20:47.07 | Maloeran | That's the source of the problem? |
| 20:47.15 | ``Erik | I believe so |
| 20:47.27 | Maloeran | It's surely to avoid divides by zero |
| 20:47.34 | ``Erik | since my ray dir is defined as 0,0,1 |
| 20:47.53 | ``Erik | it gets used as TIE_PREC,TIE_PREC,1 |
| 20:49.17 | ``Erik | 0.008435 |
| 20:49.42 | ``Erik | which correlates |
| 20:49.55 | Maloeran | This is all good stuff. The more inaccuraries you find there, the least worse my code will seem |
| 20:50.00 | ``Erik | hah |
| 20:52.29 | ``Erik | it's visually tolerable, but not geometric analysis tolerable... I think it'll need to be fixed :/ |
| 20:55.19 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 20:55.27 | Maloeran | I hate Ctrl+Alt+Backspace! |
| 20:56.30 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/369427 < -- a run of the behavious i described. |
| 20:56.40 | IriX64 | behaviour too. |
| 20:57.51 | Maloeran | Who would ever create a shortcut that kills X made of keys that one could very well use in rapid succession or simultaneously |
| 20:59.15 | ``Erik | alt control delete? |
| 20:59.35 | ``Erik | how is that so easy to hit? O.o |
| 20:59.35 | Maloeran | At least that does not kill windows |
| 20:59.47 | Maloeran | Ctrl+Alt+Backspace kills X instantly! |
| 20:59.50 | ``Erik | also; run irc in screen, so'z it won't disconnect |
| 21:00.04 | ``Erik | yes, alt+ctrl+backspace is the OMFGKILLX!!~! |
| 21:00.57 | ``Erik | ahhh, the days of fullscreen game programming when sdl was flakey :D |
| 21:01.04 | Maloeran | I frequently type with the right hand, the left hand holds ctrl+alt to soon switch desktop |
| 21:01.20 | Maloeran | I make a typo, hit backspace, and boom. It happens about once every two weeks |
| 21:01.36 | ``Erik | hm, the solution is simple: quit doing that. |
| 21:04.12 | IriX64 | errr or undo it (duck) |
| 21:06.46 | brlcad | IriX64: there are lots of things wrong with that |
| 21:06.53 | brlcad | in regards to "15:37 * IriX64 wonders whats wrong with aclocal, autoheader, autoconf, automake sequence" |
| 21:07.12 | brlcad | autoreconf doesn't do just that either |
| 21:07.41 | IriX64 | but you should be able to do that no? |
| 21:07.47 | brlcad | nope |
| 21:07.53 | IriX64 | really? |
| 21:08.07 | brlcad | well, at least no if you also want to expect it to work |
| 21:08.09 | IriX64 | it used to work on 7.6.0 |
| 21:08.19 | IriX64 | and 7.6.2 |
| 21:08.20 | brlcad | you got lucky |
| 21:08.25 | IriX64 | twice? |
| 21:08.30 | brlcad | it *can* work |
| 21:08.37 | IriX64 | details plz. |
| 21:08.39 | brlcad | but it doesn't mean it *will* or should work |
| 21:08.52 | IriX64 | not a problem then? |
| 21:09.29 | brlcad | it's a problem with what you're doing, but not a problem with how it's set up |
| 21:09.45 | IriX64 | wrong sequence? |
| 21:09.52 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:09.55 | brlcad | and wrong parameters |
| 21:10.04 | IriX64 | ty. |
| 21:10.13 | IriX64 | Ill study up on it. |
| 21:10.47 | IriX64 | right now i'm listening to Romeo and Juliet by Dire Straits. :) |
| 21:11.00 | brlcad | read autogen.sh, look for a section entitled MANUAL_AUTOGEN FUNCTION |
| 21:11.11 | IriX64 | ty i will. |
| 21:11.49 | brlcad | there it lists the steps you have to take if you want to do it by hand, though even that is slightly misleading as those steps apply to non-recursive configurations (and the next release will have recursive) |
| 21:12.21 | IriX64 | automake is non-recursive ? :P |
| 21:12.25 | brlcad | you should read the header to autogen.sh too -- says what it does in a summary |
| 21:12.33 | IriX64 | ty |
| 21:12.39 | brlcad | automake is neither recursive or non-recursive |
| 21:12.50 | IriX64 | cmon it delves |
| 21:13.18 | IriX64 | calls itself too. |
| 21:13.35 | brlcad | make recurses and calls itself |
| 21:13.43 | brlcad | automake just processes a bunch of files passed to it |
| 21:14.58 | IriX64 | look for .am ahh found it engage operate on it mode done look for another, ah hell its a directory sigh.... |
| 21:16.18 | IriX64 | then translated it to vms dcl. |
| 21:16.55 | brlcad | you have a lot of gillichisms in you |
| 21:17.15 | IriX64 | yeah hard to unlearn you know, but i'm trying. |
| 21:17.45 | brlcad | heh, i don't think that means what you think it means |
| 21:17.54 | IriX64 | like typing with two fingers sigh, ill never beat that. |
| 21:17.58 | brlcad | did you read autogen.sh yet? |
| 21:18.11 | IriX64 | you meant now, hold on... |
| 21:18.24 | Maloeran | Typing with 2 fingers? Impressive, you are quite fast at it |
| 21:19.25 | IriX64 | err maunual_autogen_function not there case sensitivity turned off same. |
| 21:19.50 | IriX64 | ty Maloeran. |
| 21:19.53 | brlcad | then you're not using the newer autogen.sh that you were supposed to have downloaded a couple days ago |
| 21:20.07 | IriX64 | wrong tree just a sec... |
| 21:20.14 | brlcad | look for just manual then |
| 21:20.31 | brlcad | and still, the header is the same in both, read the intro |
| 21:20.46 | brlcad | after the legal junk is an explanation |
| 21:22.38 | IriX64 | look its not there i tried searching four trees and the scipt i downloaded. |
| 21:23.22 | IriX64 | and i checked for typos in my search string :) |
| 21:24.30 | IriX64 | ill just rely on autogen. |
| 21:24.51 | IriX64 | is the other method deprecated? |
| 21:29.23 | brlcad | which is pretty much the response of everyone until they learn how to use them right |
| 21:29.52 | brlcad | there are reasons why the tools are the way that they are, for better or worse, and seeing why they are the way they are only comes with time |
| 21:30.32 | brlcad | the only way you can do better really is by changing a lot of assumptions, requirements, or increasing the baseline |
| 21:30.59 | brlcad | otherwise, when used as documented, they work better than any alternatives |
| 21:31.21 | brlcad | that doesn't mean easy on the developer, but it does result in an interface that requires the least of ones users |
| 21:31.43 | brlcad | IriX64: in your case, you also apparently trying to learn how the tools themselves work for some reason |
| 21:31.54 | IriX64 | curiousity. |
| 21:32.05 | Maloeran | IriX64, go learn to code, it's more interesting ;) |
| 21:32.12 | brlcad | I can't fathom why you'd *want* to try to run individual commands when there are two interfaces provided that work correctly |
| 21:32.12 | IriX64 | comparing to what I am used too. |
| 21:32.31 | brlcad | but that's not even practical knowledge for the most part.. running the autotools steps like that |
| 21:32.45 | IriX64 | Thanks maloeran I need much knowlewdge care to teach? :) |
| 21:33.08 | brlcad | it's not even a valid comparison to other build environments, as that's not even the documented use |
| 21:33.14 | IriX64 | sorta like being a backyard mechanic brlcad. |
| 21:33.37 | Maloeran | We can't "teach", but we can answer questions, Grab K&R, the C programming langyage holy bible, or some online guide |
| 21:33.49 | IriX64 | will do. |
| 21:34.21 | IriX64 | God created me with a leaky valve, I'll be right back. |
| 21:35.11 | brlcad | if you really want to learn how it works under the hood, study autogen.sh in detail -- read it until you understand it one line at a time |
| 21:36.12 | brlcad | autogen.sh only exists because of versioning/compatibility flexibility issues with the autotools over their years of existence, it's a wrapper around the documented way that "should" just work of running autoreconf with some options |
| 21:37.21 | brlcad | there are no predefined steps that autoreconf takes that you can replicate for all projects, it does different things for different projects based on the contents of the build system files like configure.ac/in, Makefile.am and other files |
| 21:41.50 | brlcad | if there are no versioning mismatch problems, bugs, or misconfiguration issues, all autogen.sh does is run autoreconf for you |
| 21:45.08 | Maloeran | I'm sure it's the vim or Blender of configuration scripts, I just wish it could be used properly without learning so much |
| 21:45.49 | Maloeran | Although libtools has often behaved erratically with me |
| 21:46.23 | brlcad | more like the 'ed' of editor interfaces combined with the emacs feature list |
| 21:48.06 | brlcad | libtool is the weakest link and most bug prone, but it also juggles the hardest part .. 90% of new-user libtool problems that I've seen (even my own) have been incorrect assumptions that happened to work somewhere but quickly broke under different conditions |
| 21:49.10 | brlcad | contrary to autoconf and automake, libtool usually doesn't abort during autoreconf when something is specified wrong .. it just causes wierd/bad things to happen during compile/linking |
| 21:49.29 | Maloeran | Example of erratical behavior. I made a copy of the scripts generated by libtool to append a "gdb" in the "exec" line, for obvious reasons |
| 21:49.53 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:51.30 | Maloeran | When the list of .o files change, these gdb scripts become really weird. Sometimes, they work, and the next moment, they don't ( nothing has changed ) with the script complaining about some .o file |
| 21:51.30 | Maloeran | You may recompile without changing anything, and it might work again, then stop doing so. It's just... erratical |
| 21:51.30 | brlcad | why does the list of .o files change? |
| 21:51.37 | Maloeran | Because a new .c file was added for example |
| 21:52.01 | brlcad | if a new c file is added, and you update the makefile.am, it's going to recompile the binary, and replace the script |
| 21:52.23 | Maloeran | Right, but the old copy of the script with "gdb" added isn't updated ; and the behavior of that script is _really_ weird |
| 21:52.47 | Maloeran | I realize I should update the scripts every time, but it really surprised me to see such inconsistant behavior |
| 21:53.41 | brlcad | you've not said that was wierd/inconsistent |
| 21:54.07 | Maloeran | What is weird is that the old copy of the script with "gdb" added might sometimes work and sometimes does not |
| 21:54.12 | brlcad | if you've added a new compilation object, the presumably copied one that has a gdb added is invalid |
| 21:54.20 | Maloeran | And I'm talking about running it 2 times in a row without changing anything else |
| 21:55.00 | brlcad | ahh, what you're seeing is due to the reason the scripts exist in the first place too |
| 21:55.30 | brlcad | when you recompiled, the build deleted the actual binary that your gdb script pointed to, which is actually just a local lt-binary |
| 21:55.51 | brlcad | first pass through, it actually compiles/links it when you run the script |
| 21:55.59 | brlcad | second pass, it has the lt- binary |
| 21:56.30 | Maloeran | So somehow it works the first time but not the second?... It doesn't visibly compile anything |
| 21:56.35 | brlcad | still, that's very much a matter of editing/running something that was/is invalid and shouldn't work |
| 21:56.45 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: compute and display speedup |
| 21:57.31 | brlcad | right, it doesn't blather about it, just compiles behind the scenes, and it does this for a rather good reason -- it's why it's a shell script there in the first place and not just the binary |
| 21:57.58 | brlcad | if you want a binary that you can just run, you can disable shared libraries during configure |
| 21:58.05 | Maloeran | I thought it was just to set the shared library paths right |
| 21:58.17 | brlcad | that's one of the things it does |
| 21:58.30 | brlcad | how to do that portably depends on the platform too |
| 21:58.55 | brlcad | so it relinks the binary so that it should run without being installed (however that can be acheived for the target platform) |
| 22:00.04 | brlcad | what ``Erik said is actually what you're "supposed" to do according to the docs, the fact that adding a gdb --args into the script works is about as significant as pulling out a hex editor on a binary to get some modified behavior |
| 22:00.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: compute and save the hit points and normals |
| 22:02.03 | Maloeran | All right, and this explains the "sometimes works, sometimes doesn't" part |
| 22:03.24 | ``Erik | it always works, it just doesn't do what you expect :D |
| 22:03.24 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: extract the path string per region |
| 22:04.42 | brlcad | yep, almost guaranteed that it either notices the lt-binary is missing or is at least out of sync timestamp-wise (depends on your version of libtool), and it attempts to relink .. which I would think would fail sometimes due to symbols missing and othertimes for other reasons |
| 22:05.09 | brlcad | or at least what you want |
| 22:05.57 | ``Erik | "do what I mean, not what I say!" |
| 22:38.06 | IriX64 | mea culpa, what time would you like me to report to the firing squad? |
| 22:38.32 | Maloeran | At 26:14 and be on time! |
| 22:38.44 | IriX64 | Right captain. |
| 22:39.02 | brlcad | would you like fish sticks or peanut butter as your last meal? |
| 22:39.13 | IriX64 | also explains why brlcad is channel op :) |
| 22:39.39 | IriX64 | mmmmm sirloin, rare :) |
| 22:39.57 | IriX64 | trying to accuse me of buttering you up? |
| 22:40.35 | brlcad | you're the wrong gender to be buttering me up |
| 22:40.45 | IriX64 | it's configing happily now. thanks for the tutorial. |
| 22:41.09 | IriX64 | thats for sure man... the parts were'nt meant to go together :) |
| 22:41.13 | brlcad | seriously, though -- if you want to know how the engine works, read through autogen.sh in detail -- at least the comments |
| 22:41.21 | IriX64 | were'nt too. |
| 22:41.35 | IriX64 | already started. |
| 22:42.08 | IriX64 | I can safely be accused of being just a casual *nix user. |
| 22:44.31 | IriX64 | and now it's happily "making" |
| 22:51.57 | brlcad | not really, other than perhaps having had this discussion at least twice now about how you should read autogen.sh if you really want to break things into pieces like that.. and I think you've still not done that :P |
| 22:53.49 | IriX64 | 45000000 Maloeran, thats a pricey sentence. |
| 22:55.18 | Maloeran | Failure to paiment will return in spatial confinement for 6.5*9^10 units of Plank time |
| 22:57.39 | IriX64 | Plank as in walk? |
| 22:57.44 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/369597 |
| 22:57.57 | IriX64 | still working on this. |
| 22:58.27 | brlcad | i feel like a parrot with you sometimes :) |
| 22:58.52 | IriX64 | heh you didn't have to go look :) |
| 22:59.02 | brlcad | that's some entirely unknown ld/cygwin/libtool issue |
| 22:59.29 | IriX64 | agreed, funy thing is it keeps compiling. |
| 22:59.34 | brlcad | your best bet is to install libz and/or libpng on your own, add them as static libs to the build during configure |
| 22:59.47 | brlcad | ah, now it's compiling? yesterday it was failing? |
| 22:59.50 | brlcad | what'd you change? |
| 23:00.14 | IriX64 | build alias. |
| 23:00.23 | brlcad | huh? |
| 23:00.56 | IriX64 | --build=i686-pc-cygwin compiles, --build=whatever compiles only with --disable switch. |
| 23:00.59 | brlcad | if people aren't supposed to click on a link or derive something interesting by clicking on a link, then it shouldn't be pasted :P |
| 23:01.33 | IriX64 | kindly telling me to watch what links i put in the channel, noted and thank you :) |
| 23:03.17 | brlcad | I'd also think that there's no need to keep thanking people after you're told things, I can't imagine that you really are *that* thankful for everything .. |
| 23:03.30 | brlcad | maybe thank when it's thank-worthy, really useful? :) |
| 23:03.35 | brlcad | just a thought :) |
| 23:03.40 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:04.07 | IriX64 | I've never ever really grown up you see :) |
| 23:04.19 | IriX64 | treat everybody like their my parents. |
| 23:04.23 | brlcad | that much I gathered a really long time ago |
| 23:04.44 | brlcad | I swore you were 12 for months |
| 23:04.56 | brlcad | still do some days |
| 23:06.42 | IriX64 | zasm was kinda fun too eh ``Erik? |
| 23:10.21 | IriX64 | do incompatible pointer types warnings interest you? I can restart if they do. |
| 23:12.29 | Maloeran | Ignore, it's probably fine |
| 23:12.40 | IriX64 | ty |
| 23:13.17 | IriX64 | fixed Sc.c and cursor.c tho. |
| 23:13.50 | IriX64 | (char *) buncha times in both. |
| 23:21.41 | brlcad | IriX64: nah, it would be nice for someone to actually go through and fix all of the warnings, especially make it so that --enable-warnings comes up clean |
| 23:22.24 | brlcad | but that's mostly dusting under the lampshade in the closet in the upstairs bedroom sorts of maintenance |
| 23:44.20 | IriX64 | i might tackle it don't know about code will never be executed though :) |
| 23:45.55 | louipc | salutations |
| 23:46.14 | IriX64 | and everybody hallucinated :) |
| 23:46.50 | brlcad | louipc: howdy loui |
| 23:48.06 | Maloeran | Some warnings can't be removed without negatively impacting performance, annoyingly |
| 23:48.28 | IriX64 | tajke your pick clean or mean :) |
| 23:48.33 | IriX64 | take too. |
| 23:48.47 | louipc | I choose mean |
| 23:49.42 | Maloeran | I say efficiency above clean code, portability and reliability! |
| 23:49.45 | brlcad | those are pretty darn rare, and usually imply reliance on just compiler behavior that one probably can't be guaranteed anyways (beyond compiler writer promises) |
| 23:50.33 | Maloeran | brlcad, such as these "variable might be used unitialized" or even "variable is used unitialized" |
| 23:51.00 | Maloeran | Though the second one is very specific |
| 23:51.02 | louipc | actually I choose portability |
| 23:51.06 | brlcad | the problem with efficiency, is that you can blame so many things on that banner to the point of rediculousness |
| 23:51.53 | brlcad | Maloeran: err.. using a variable that's been uninitialized would be bad unreliable behavior |
| 23:52.19 | ``Erik | bakebakebake |
| 23:52.25 | brlcad | that's usually something that might work on one system/compiler, but could easily cause an outright crash on another |
| 23:52.30 | Maloeran | It's not unitialized, but GCC isn't clever enough to understand it. Pick a SSE m128 register, if you write the lower and higher 64 bits independantely, GCC will complain it's unitialized |
| 23:52.57 | brlcad | ahh, that's somewhat different -- that borderlines on a false positive |
| 23:53.20 | Maloeran | Sure, I'm talking about these borderline cases here, where removing the warning would reduce performance |
| 23:53.47 | ``Erik | ohyeah, mal, it breaks on fbsd again, some _mm ops that are named different or somethin' |
| 23:54.11 | Maloeran | That's weird, anything more specific? |
| 23:54.15 | brlcad | that one in particular "probably" falls under the "pretty darn rare" category, without seeing the actual code |
| 23:54.40 | ``Erik | I had it, but I forgot it, um, I suppose I could regenerate the error :) |
| 23:55.13 | ``Erik | updateupdateupdate |
| 00:34.30 | ``Erik | ../../rtirenderblend4sse.c: In function `elemcallb': |
| 00:34.30 | ``Erik | ../../rtirenderblend4sse.c:251: warning: implicit declaration of function `_mm_castps_si128' |
| 00:34.30 | ``Erik | ../../rtirenderblend4sse.c:251: error: incompatible type for argument 2 of `_mm_and_si128' |
| 00:39.08 | Maloeran | Hum. Okay |
| 00:39.31 | Maloeran | Do you have SSE2 on that box? |
| 00:40.22 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:42.20 | Maloeran | On FreeBSD, right? Does it find emmintrin.h? Don't you have these pseudo function calls in it? |
| 00:43.18 | Maloeran | Perhaps I used non-standard SSE intrinsics by mistake, I'm just a bit surprised |
| 00:43.48 | ``Erik | $ ls -l /usr/include/emmintrin.h |
| 00:43.48 | ``Erik | -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 34528 Sep 16 2005 /usr/include/emmintrin.h |
| 00:44.23 | Maloeran | Can you grep it for castps_si128? |
| 00:44.44 | Maloeran | Must be a non-standard SSE intrinsic, it's just a cast anyway |
| 00:45.22 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/contrib/gcc/config/i386/emmintrin.h?rev=1.1.1.3&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup |
| 00:47.01 | Maloeran | Okay. I'll fix that soon |
| 00:47.53 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 00:48.04 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 00:48.50 | brlcad | "There was a problem with the switch that has been resolved by the IP Engineering department, your server was not rebooted but is currently online and responsive to my ping requests." |
| 00:49.08 | brlcad | for anyone on or connected to .bz, that is |
| 00:52.04 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 00:56.17 | ``Erik | ld: .libs/job.o has external relocation entries in non-writable section (__TEXT,__text) for symbols: |
| 00:56.17 | ``Erik | jobThreadWork |
| 00:56.19 | ``Erik | neat |
| 00:57.57 | Maloeran | What is that? |
| 00:58.47 | Maloeran | Oh, some platform doesn't like my assembly hack to align the stack on 16 bytes on ia32 |
| 00:59.18 | Maloeran | Have a look at RF/job.c, I'm not sure what that error message means |
| 01:03.46 | Maloeran | Any thoughts or further insight? |
| 01:05.05 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168049077.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:08.36 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 01:08.45 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 01:09.13 | ``Erik | couldn't you do something like an alignment attribute? O.o |
| 01:09.51 | Maloeran | No, it's the stack itself that is not aligned |
| 01:10.06 | Maloeran | The compiler can't preserve stack alignment if the thread stack wasn't aligned to begin with |
| 01:10.37 | ``Erik | hrm *shrug* |
| 01:10.37 | IriX64 | what the hey does the compiler care about a users thread? |
| 01:10.37 | Maloeran | So when launching a thread, first thing I do is fixing the alignment, and the compiler preserves the alignment from that point |
| 01:10.46 | IriX64 | it's all code. |
| 01:10.57 | IriX64 | unless you have thread optimizations. |
| 01:10.59 | ``Erik | the compiler doesn't, but if you are misaligned when you try to execute an sse op, shit blows up |
| 01:11.11 | IriX64 | runtime? |
| 01:11.14 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 01:11.15 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 01:11.17 | IriX64 | obviously duh. |
| 01:11.43 | IriX64 | auto assigned stack or user determined? |
| 01:11.56 | Maloeran | What's the fix, Erik? Is the symbol incorrect on fbsd, does it need an underscore or something? |
| 01:12.04 | Maloeran | Automatically assigned stack |
| 01:12.23 | IriX64 | system *should keep track of it then. |
| 01:12.28 | IriX64 | alas |
| 01:12.37 | IriX64 | all systems are not created equeal. |
| 01:12.44 | Maloeran | An automatic stack will be allocated in the proper memory bank for the processor, for higher performance. If I were to provide it, I would need to do some non-portable libNUMA fu and Erik would hate me |
| 01:12.53 | IriX64 | ergo code generated for one system etc... |
| 01:13.13 | IriX64 | heh beat eric with a noodle. |
| 01:13.43 | IriX64 | btw am i breaking anything by having Mr. Muss's face on my space? |
| 01:13.59 | IriX64 | I mean is it allowed i should have asked first. |
| 01:14.39 | ``Erik | what symbol? the job breakage was osX on an x86 core duo |
| 01:14.58 | Maloeran | The jobThreadWork symbol that I'm calling from assembly |
| 01:15.34 | ``Erik | that's a mac, not fbsd |
| 01:16.04 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know the fix |
| 01:16.05 | Maloeran | <-- neither |
| 01:16.06 | ``Erik | <-- thinks only linux has the alignment broken stuff, though |
| 01:16.32 | Maloeran | Erik, test it. Disable the RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK switch |
| 01:16.35 | ``Erik | I'm fairly sure you can just call jobThreadWork() on fbsd and it self-aligns |
| 01:16.47 | ``Erik | but your sse stuff is broken on fbsd right now *shrug* |
| 01:17.58 | ``Erik | heh, I have my reasons. |
| 01:18.25 | Maloeran | If you want to test Erik, just replace _mm_castps_si128(x) with (__m128i)x |
| 01:20.02 | ``Erik | I deleted RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK from config.h and it works fine on the mac |
| 01:20.21 | ``Erik | I think RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK should only be if __linux__ && __x86__ |
| 01:20.27 | Maloeran | Agreed |
| 01:22.57 | ``Erik | hrm, ok, changing the castps let it compile... but it's not decently headed, so rfdemo won't do well |
| 01:23.11 | ``Erik | what can I run to see if it executes without crashing with no head? :D |
| 01:23.48 | Maloeran | rfregtest? :) |
| 01:23.55 | ``Erik | failed to create context |
| 01:24.03 | ``Erik | does it assume files in pwd? |
| 01:24.10 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 01:24.20 | ``Erik | bah |
| 01:24.45 | Maloeran | Context creation failed is about rt.conf and the .so |
| 01:30.18 | ``Erik | log2f issues again, heh |
| 01:31.38 | Maloeran | Your last "fix" would never detect log2() in any circumstance, because it's C99 and requires -lm |
| 01:31.49 | Maloeran | And the configure thing tested C89 without -lm |
| 01:33.27 | ``Erik | heh, quit using c99? :D *duck* |
| 01:35.40 | ``Erik | ok, hacked the log2 defs back in and it's cooking away now |
| 01:35.42 | ``Erik | no crashes so far |
| 01:36.00 | Maloeran | Do you think you could test a big endian platform? |
| 01:37.05 | ``Erik | pretty easily |
| 01:37.11 | ``Erik | but SDL gives you that for free O.o |
| 01:37.40 | Maloeran | Ah well, there's the geometry group file format to test too |
| 01:38.03 | Maloeran | No big deal, it should work unless I made a stupid typo somewhere |
| 01:38.42 | brlcad | heh, sdl don't give jack for free |
| 01:38.44 | ``Erik | ok, the hack is off and regtest is running on opteron/fbsd now |
| 01:38.47 | brlcad | there's a price *somewhere* |
| 01:38.54 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, you have to include it to get the macros |
| 01:39.04 | ``Erik | which penalize the unpreferred format |
| 01:39.30 | Maloeran | The hack is only for ia32 platforms by the way |
| 01:39.41 | brlcad | providing seamless maintainability integration can be a pita with them, but doable |
| 01:39.45 | Maloeran | The switch is ignored on amd64, as it's unecessary and it's ia32 assembly anyway |
| 01:39.57 | ``Erik | it was on in my compile :/ |
| 01:40.08 | Maloeran | Sure it's on, but ignored in the code |
| 01:40.16 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 01:40.31 | ``Erik | how long does it take for results agan? |
| 01:40.54 | Maloeran | It takes several minutes, just kill it ;) |
| 01:41.03 | ``Erik | woops, there went a core dump |
| 01:41.12 | Maloeran | Woah. |
| 01:41.57 | ``Erik | #0 0x000000080144b89c in pthread_testcancel () from /lib/libpthread.so.2 |
| 01:42.35 | Maloeran | Can you backtrace a bit more? |
| 01:43.05 | ``Erik | I bailed out of the machine and closed the screen, sorry... there were only three symbols, the first and last were pthread |
| 01:43.38 | Maloeran | Actually... This was refregtest, right? I think I forgot to fix something there |
| 01:43.53 | ``Erik | yeah, rfregtest |
| 01:44.03 | brlcad | woot, autogen.sh now works from subconf dirs |
| 01:44.13 | ``Erik | given the number of machines I was jumping through and the slow link, rfdemo wouldn't have worked well :) |
| 01:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 01:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: add a function to locate the configure template so that we find the right files |
| 01:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: when running autogen.sh from an ac_config_subdirs directory, perhaps being |
| 01:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: configured/compiled in isolation (without making a copy of this script). also |
| 01:47.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: add a sanity check that we did indeed end up with a configure script when all |
| 01:47.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: was said and done. |
| 01:51.44 | brlcad | IriX64: ehm.. that's pretty impossible at this point |
| 01:51.59 | brlcad | the channel is publicly logged and indexed by google daily |
| 01:52.13 | IriX64 | ahh well. |
| 01:52.29 | IriX64 | <*> |
| 01:54.27 | brlcad | search for "IriX64 BRL-CAD" and you can see a few on the first page alone |
| 01:56.34 | Maloeran | Cool, logs from the channel 14 months ago |
| 01:57.03 | IriX64 | really? explains something |
| 01:58.11 | ``Erik | heh http://paste.lisp.org/display/30558 |
| 01:59.06 | IriX64 | jack?.... Jack Shit, I know him well. ;) |
| 01:59.30 | IriX64 | what are you testing? |
| 01:59.54 | IriX64 | ermf for get I said that or you'll be asking me same question. |
| 02:01.11 | Maloeran | IriX64, grab a C guide online, get dev-c++ and get started |
| 02:01.18 | ``Erik | heh, squeak |
| 02:01.48 | IriX64 | the mouse that roared? |
| 02:02.11 | ``Erik | no, the smalltalk environment |
| 02:02.22 | ``Erik | irix: check out http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ |
| 02:02.23 | ``Erik | it's nifty |
| 02:02.29 | IriX64 | why smalltalk why not crosstalk? |
| 02:03.06 | IriX64 | ermf xbox? |
| 02:04.46 | Maloeran | Seriously, IriX64, learn to code ; I think it's the kind of hobby you would enjoy |
| 02:05.31 | ``Erik | the exercised in structured thinking is a good growth opportunity |
| 02:05.46 | ``Erik | think of it like sudoku on steroids :) |
| 02:06.06 | IriX64 | problem is the environment insists on stunting my growth :) |
| 02:06.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:07.01 | Maloeran | The environment? |
| 02:07.32 | IriX64 | structured programming environment, I seriously don't think like that. |
| 02:07.48 | Maloeran | No one does, it's an acquired skill |
| 02:07.59 | Maloeran | Just give it a try |
| 02:08.04 | IriX64 | old dog, new tricks thing. |
| 02:08.20 | ``Erik | what? old john, new tricks? |
| 02:08.24 | ``Erik | sorry, I'll behave O:-) |
| 02:08.29 | IriX64 | heheh |
| 02:08.54 | IriX64 | when you get that old the trick is in keeping her :) |
| 02:09.18 | Maloeran | Are you retired or so, IriX64? |
| 02:09.46 | IriX64 | disability. (does it show, mentally challenged :)) |
| 02:11.01 | Maloeran | Really? You seem joyful and not too knowledgeable about computers but I would not have thought that. Are you serious? |
| 02:11.26 | IriX64 | just the disability part. but i'm getting well. |
| 02:11.57 | Maloeran | Well, clearly you can type, therefore you can code |
| 02:12.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:12.13 | IriX64 | used to be a DEC fse before i took work hhere at the plant (Algoma Steel Inc) |
| 02:12.27 | ``Erik | plenty of hunt&peck coders out there |
| 02:12.28 | IriX64 | trvth |
| 02:13.06 | Maloeran | It's a disability acquired at a steel mill?.. |
| 02:13.14 | IriX64 | yes |
| 02:13.29 | ``Erik | if you spend more time typing than thinking, I'd assert that either you're using an inappropriate language for the task, or approaching the task in a silly manner |
| 02:13.42 | Maloeran | Ouch. Would you... share details, if you want to? |
| 02:14.07 | IriX64 | re: coding? I tend to disagree, you could just be a hunt and pecker :) |
| 02:14.29 | IriX64 | Maloeran not publicly sorry. |
| 02:14.50 | ``Erik | heh, mal is a pecker :D |
| 02:14.50 | Maloeran | Okay, right. |
| 02:15.09 | IriX64 | ``Erik is a hunter :) |
| 02:15.19 | ``Erik | spyhunter, yo |
| 02:15.30 | IriX64 | wait ive got dialtone. |
| 02:15.50 | IriX64 | bond james bone. |
| 02:15.56 | ``Erik | bondo? |
| 02:15.58 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:16.15 | IriX64 | stuff used to patch cars get with it. |
| 02:16.16 | ``Erik | car repair paste of international superspies? O.o |
| 02:16.52 | IriX64 | paste? as in pasting teeth? :) |
| 02:17.36 | IriX64 | tell me ``Erik if it's common sense, why isn't there more of it around? |
| 02:18.19 | ``Erik | heh, don't make me bust out my big books of steven wright quotes |
| 02:18.42 | ``Erik | or mitch hedberg |
| 02:18.59 | IriX64 | steven wright? I turn to calvin and hobbes. |
| 02:20.29 | Maloeran | Hey Justin, received mail from Mark forwarding yours |
| 02:20.51 | Maloeran | The voxel stuff was dropped on the way, apparently the people who thought they needed it were actually using triangles |
| 02:21.49 | Twingy | we'll see about that |
| 02:29.54 | IriX64 | Maloeran, I wasn't really kidding about that don't start the thread bit, if it gives you hassle incorporate the code into whatever thinks it needs to start a thread. |
| 02:30.44 | IriX64 | forr what its worth :) |
| 02:34.24 | Maloeran | Threads shouldn't be avoided, they are used to distribute the work over multiple processors |
| 02:35.24 | IriX64 | not saying avoid them bit if one particular piece of code is giving you grief why fight it. |
| 02:38.11 | Maloeran | It's fine, just OSX doing things a bit differently, no big deal |
| 02:41.43 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:48.04 | louipc | what's the ideology behind that feature? |
| 02:49.42 | Maloeran | That ia32's largest data type is "double", which is 8 bytes, therefore stacks only require 8 bytes alignment |
| 02:50.51 | Maloeran | Then SSE arrived, which required 16 bytes. The glibc and kernel crowd kept putting the blame on the other camp, I think it got fixed at some point |
| 02:52.25 | Maloeran | Compilers like Intel would align the stack of every function dynamically whenever SSE was used to work around that issue |
| 02:59.15 | louipc | wowzers this processor mumbo jumbo is beyond me |
| 02:59.57 | Maloeran | Oops I'm sorry, I assumed you were a programmer |
| 03:07.59 | louipc | no prob, I'm just reading generally about it now. It makes programming at the processor level look like a real pain |
| 03:09.15 | louipc | IriX64: you have a *nix? which one? |
| 03:10.29 | IriX64 | DEC :P |
| 03:12.04 | louipc | hmm |
| 03:13.17 | IriX64 | pdp11/70 louipc :) |
| 03:14.21 | louipc | haha no way |
| 03:15.37 | IriX64 | sysV runs well on it tho. |
| 03:17.32 | IriX64 | btw if anybody cares, ./m4 *seems tied to 1.9.6. |
| 03:35.52 | IriX64 | louipc, recepricol question which unixen do you have? |
| 03:38.50 | IriX64 | can i do it that way? |
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| 14:14.46 | ``Erik | *cookcookcook* |
| 15:10.46 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 15:10.51 | lg_ | hey... |
| 15:11.22 | lg_ | i am here with a mged modeling question... something i would do with an extrude along path in another app... |
| 15:12.18 | lg_ | i am building a segment of a domes with ribs, but everything is rounded |
| 15:15.54 | lg_ | ok, thank you... |
| 15:16.03 | Maloeran | If you were to idle for a while, you'll get an answer eventually, but I wouldn't count on anything in a short time |
| 15:16.27 | lg_ | i think i have first to cut away the corner and than past in a part of a torus, which is awful |
| 15:17.07 | lg_ | maloeran, do you know if it is possible to specify geometry by angle in mged? it is a rather basic question, but i could not find an answer yet |
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| 18:28.53 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: be a little more liberal on the -all_load libtool script fix to avoid escaping the dollarsign |
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| 20:08.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: loop over potential locations instead of just testing for one. this helps subdir configures clean up too if added to their configure. |
| 20:30.14 | Maloeran | Cool, 3 minutes to compile BRL-CAD, optimized and almost-everything |
| 20:36.01 | brlcad | nifty |
| 20:36.29 | louipc | I'm extremely jealous |
| 20:36.50 | brlcad | Maloeran: how long for a ./configure --enable-all compile (i.e. non-optimized, almost-everything) |
| 20:37.17 | brlcad | both with "make -jwhatever" and "make -jwhatever fast" |
| 20:37.43 | brlcad | might be in contention for fastest compile to date |
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| 20:53.32 | louipc | IriX64: I'm running linux, archlinux specifically |
| 20:53.36 | louipc | ;) |
| 20:54.48 | IriX64 | louipc: great what have you photon mapped (it's such fun) |
| 20:54.48 | Maloeran | brlcad, will test |
| 20:54.48 | Maloeran | I'm not too sure what the optimal -jX is though, yet |
| 20:55.41 | Maloeran | --enable-all is 1 minute 54 seconds |
| 20:56.18 | Maloeran | Trying this "make fast" now |
| 20:56.19 | brlcad | Maloeran: with or without 'fast' |
| 20:56.23 | Maloeran | Without |
| 20:56.23 | brlcad | ahh, k |
| 20:56.35 | brlcad | cool, that would be a record regardless ;) |
| 20:56.40 | louipc | IriX64: nothing worth noting |
| 20:56.53 | Maloeran | Neat, I like my new toy :) |
| 20:56.54 | brlcad | is this cvs head too, or somewhere thereabouts? |
| 20:57.08 | Maloeran | The latest release, not CVS |
| 20:57.21 | brlcad | ahh, okay |
| 20:57.36 | brlcad | still a record, though latest will be a bit slower |
| 20:57.41 | IriX64 | but have you played with the examples? They're truly works of art, I especially like castle. |
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| 20:58.37 | Maloeran | Hum. brlcad, it didn't tell me the time it took for "make -j12 fast", I guess I should have clocked |
| 21:00.08 | brlcad | Maloeran: ah, no matter then |
| 21:01.39 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/370750 (*shrug*) |
| 21:02.26 | Maloeran | time make -j12 fast : real 2m3s user 6m46s sys 2m57 |
| 21:02.38 | Maloeran | Oh well, it's adding the time of all cores |
| 21:04.18 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 21:05.12 | IriX64 | bwahahah I can now shut down windows from my cygwin environment. thats hysterical louipc you wondered what I'm using, I just told you ;) |
| 21:08.38 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/370763 |
| 21:08.51 | IriX64 | louipc: check it. |
| 21:14.33 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/370770 (I'll stop now :)) |
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| 23:05.15 | louipc | IriX64: I wouldn't call that *nix, it's more like GNU/windows hah |
| 23:19.00 | ``Erik | indeed, even less unixy than linux O.O |
| 23:21.35 | IriX64 | puhleaze, I can do anything unix can do try me. |
| 23:21.40 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:21.47 | IriX64 | i log in too. |
| 23:22.29 | IriX64 | btw my little x works very well. |
| 23:22.52 | IriX64 | has to or i would not be able to run BRL-CAD. |
| 23:23.47 | IriX64 | wonders too. |
| 23:24.33 | ``Erik | ok |
| 23:24.38 | ``Erik | run on ppc. |
| 23:24.43 | ``Erik | or rs6k. |
| 23:24.45 | ``Erik | or h9k |
| 23:24.55 | ``Erik | or vax or pdp11 or m68k or ... |
| 23:25.12 | IriX64 | now you're speaking my langugae |
| 23:25.27 | IriX64 | pdp8s best machine ever. |
| 23:26.03 | ``Erik | or support hundreds of concurrent users |
| 23:26.11 | IriX64 | doing a no debugging build want to see how fast havoc photon maps. |
| 23:26.30 | ``Erik | or provide services to the internet with no antivirus software chewing cycles and not get infected or cracked |
| 23:26.43 | IriX64 | huh? |
| 23:27.19 | IriX64 | ``Erik i respect you're opinion no matter how wrong you may be ;) |
| 23:27.34 | ``Erik | <-- doens't think he's all that wrong O:-) |
| 23:27.50 | IriX64 | heh neither do i :) |
| 23:28.43 | ``Erik | and photon mapping is a two phase operation... it raytraces as fast as it does with no lighting... and the photo map pass totally depends on how many photons you specify and a few other parameters |
| 23:29.10 | ``Erik | path tracing seems a bit more interesting, though... have you managed to get adrt to build? it has something in it called "rise" which is pretty neat |
| 23:29.16 | IriX64 | sure but you can get a guesstimate if you leave all the settings the same. |
| 23:29.34 | IriX64 | missing sdl gotta tend to that. |
| 23:29.40 | ``Erik | libsdl.org |
| 23:29.44 | IriX64 | ty |
| 23:33.19 | IriX64 | yum thanks ``Erik i'll let you know if I ever get it going btw is it fraught? |
| 23:34.26 | IriX64 | you're supposed to say "there's just no arguing with a word like fraught" :) |
| 23:35.25 | IriX64 | python is also needed. |
| 23:36.38 | ``Erik | ... yes, sdl and python are (sorta) needed, though I think rise itself doesn't use either |
| 23:36.58 | IriX64 | getting python 2.5 now. |
| 23:37.36 | ``Erik | n/m, rise observer uses sdl |
| 23:37.44 | IriX64 | ah |
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| 00:37.19 | IriX64 | sdl and python installed, adrt enabled, started a build lets see. |
| 00:41.49 | ``Erik | if you want to be fast, you can cd src/adrt |
| 00:41.51 | ``Erik | and make from there |
| 00:42.01 | ``Erik | you can do 'make depends' if you dont' have libbu built yet |
| 00:43.50 | brlcad | he's not on cvs head so likely run into other stuff |
| 00:44.04 | brlcad | plus I think I removed the libbu dep |
| 00:51.28 | ``Erik | oh |
| 00:51.31 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 00:51.58 | ``Erik | every main() makes half an attempt to use bu_getopt() |
| 00:53.17 | brlcad | not any more |
| 00:53.24 | brlcad | i undid that |
| 00:54.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:55.17 | ``Erik | and here I figured it was going to become more integrated with BRL-CAD |
| 01:01.20 | brlcad | eventually.. |
| 01:01.37 | brlcad | as soon as any of the libbu compatibility routines become a problem, it'll be a dep |
| 01:01.47 | brlcad | but to just replace for the sake of replacing wasn't the intent |
| 01:02.22 | brlcad | as it is, adrt should/might still compile entirely stand-alone |
| 01:08.24 | ``Erik | hm, is it getopt or getopt_long in there? |
| 01:08.45 | brlcad | just getopt iirc |
| 01:09.35 | ``Erik | ah, all the bu_getopt stuff has been removed and the getopt_long is gaurded |
| 01:09.36 | ``Erik | cool |
| 02:19.24 | IriX64 | oooo, somethings missing in display.c |
| 02:19.33 | IriX64 | all sorts of undefines. |
| 02:19.40 | IriX64 | undefined. |
| 02:19.48 | IriX64 | all _SDL stuff. |
| 02:20.00 | brlcad | er, you have sdl installed? |
| 02:20.04 | IriX64 | yes |
| 02:20.24 | brlcad | presumably one of the first errors is something about not finding an SDL.h header I bet |
| 02:20.37 | brlcad | might need to manually tweak CPPFLAGS |
| 02:21.50 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371076 |
| 02:21.59 | ``Erik | and perhaps post config.log and the affected Makefile somewhere we can get to eventually |
| 02:21.59 | IriX64 | its at link time for observer. |
| 02:22.14 | ``Erik | hm |
| 02:22.29 | ``Erik | where is libSDL.dll ? |
| 02:22.34 | ``Erik | (or .so or .lib or whatevr) |
| 02:22.48 | IriX64 | in local lib i think let me check. |
| 02:23.35 | IriX64 | yeah all in there. |
| 02:23.47 | IriX64 | configure found it ok. |
| 02:24.13 | ``Erik | hm, in /usr/local/lib ? |
| 02:24.15 | ``Erik | what's the filename? |
| 02:24.50 | IriX64 | libsdl.a .la .ddl.a 3 of them. |
| 02:25.06 | IriX64 | err dll.a |
| 02:26.13 | IriX64 | still want config.log and the makefile ``Erik? |
| 02:26.27 | ``Erik | all .a or .la, huh, that means static only, and you were trying to link it dynamically, I think... I'm not sure on cygwin link semantics |
| 02:26.29 | ``Erik | nah |
| 02:26.44 | IriX64 | ill remove shared. |
| 02:29.01 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371084 |
| 02:29.15 | IriX64 | anything you want added/deleted from the config line? |
| 02:31.13 | ``Erik | enable-adrt automatically enable sdl and python... the flags are more there for defining an unusual location |
| 02:31.34 | ``Erik | disable-symbols? disable-shared? O.o |
| 02:31.55 | IriX64 | --disable-configure :P |
| 02:32.02 | ``Erik | disabling debugging and enabling optimizations are probably useless at this stage |
| 02:32.05 | brlcad | disable shared works, but not so sure about the symbols one doing anything |
| 02:32.32 | IriX64 | seem to remember seeing it somewhere. |
| 02:32.39 | ``Erik | why disable shared? |
| 02:32.45 | IriX64 | libraries |
| 02:32.51 | brlcad | yeah, you probably should leave off --enable-optimizations and --disable-debug and --di |
| 02:32.54 | ``Erik | just cuz you saw it "somewhere" doesnt' mean it works with BRL-CAD, homey |
| 02:32.54 | brlcad | sable-runtime-debugging |
| 02:33.09 | ``Erik | ./configure --help |
| 02:33.17 | IriX64 | :D |
| 02:33.18 | brlcad | disable shared works, and he actually needs it for cygwin.. some ld problem |
| 02:33.29 | ``Erik | and the more flags you give it, the less 'normal' it is, so the less able we are to help... fyi... :) |
| 02:33.35 | IriX64 | right want to make sure now. |
| 02:33.50 | IriX64 | ty i didnt realize that. |
| 02:35.06 | IriX64 | --disable-bug-reports ;) |
| 02:35.09 | brlcad | ./configure --enable-everything --enable-adrt --disable-shared --prefix=/usr/cygcad should be all you need |
| 02:35.12 | ``Erik | like, if you were using osX.4 with no flags, brlcad would be able to help you n/p... if you were using fbsd6 with no flags, I'd probably be able to help n/p... that's where we live, yo... the less like our environments you get, the less we're in the know |
| 02:36.05 | IriX64 | good to know my nect build will just be ./configure --disable-shared. |
| 02:36.12 | IriX64 | next too. |
| 02:36.26 | IriX64 | liar ;) |
| 02:36.33 | brlcad | i regularly try a variety of flag settings, and different platforms, but it is true that os x would be one of the most familiar regardless |
| 02:36.54 | IriX64 | motorola or apple? |
| 02:37.01 | ``Erik | <-- does a bit on osX and linux, a tiny bit on solaris... |
| 02:37.03 | ``Erik | uhhhh |
| 02:37.09 | ``Erik | do you mean ibm or intel? |
| 02:37.14 | IriX64 | osx |
| 02:37.29 | ``Erik | <-- uses both ibm/g[45] and intel/coreduo macs |
| 02:37.59 | ``Erik | most of my dev work is on a quad core opteron fbsd6.2 machine |
| 02:38.02 | IriX64 | model 3800+ |
| 02:38.54 | IriX64 | we have 4 boxes in this house 2 laptops and 2 desktops, *I'm only "allowed" to use one. |
| 02:39.12 | IriX64 | chilldren you know :) |
| 02:44.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:45.19 | IriX64 | btw thats sposed to read "WunderBox" :) |
| 02:45.24 | ``Erik | s/his h/in h/ |
| 02:49.01 | IriX64 | you're "state of the art" then ``Erik. |
| 02:50.27 | IriX64 | oon the other hand the one i'm using has a gig of main mem and 200gig drive :) |
| 02:52.07 | IriX64 | already used 44gigs. |
| 02:52.32 | ``Erik | hrm, all three of my laptops have 2g ram a pop, and my fbsd box downstairs has around .5tb used |
| 02:52.45 | ``Erik | so, uh, put it away, dude :D there's always someone with a bigger one |
| 02:52.49 | IriX64 | whoa:) |
| 02:53.26 | IriX64 | penvy hah. |
| 02:58.24 | IriX64 | need some of natures wine, bbiab. |
| 03:07.06 | Twingy | oh yea, my PIC chip has 768 bytes of RAM, so nya! |
| 03:09.49 | ``Erik | good old 16f88's |
| 03:10.13 | Twingy | the 18F4620's are quite nice |
| 03:10.20 | Twingy | 32kB program, 2kB RAM, 1kB eeprom |
| 03:13.50 | IriX64 | did I really say cursor.c ``Erik? |
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| 09:38.01 | clock_ | win 11 |
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| 15:05.21 | lg_ | hi... |
| 15:16.59 | louipc | hello |
| 15:17.43 | lg_ | a, someone alive there ;-) |
| 15:18.52 | louipc | this channel is pretty active, but only at certain times and I don't think they're regular |
| 15:19.07 | ``Erik | yeah, we need to eat more fiber :/ |
| 15:20.21 | louipc | hah |
| 16:57.43 | brlcad | hehe |
| 17:01.42 | ``Erik | I'm gonna destroy the toilets at work, yo |
| 18:07.26 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371833 |
| 18:15.28 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371844 <==== this is the one that gets me :) |
| 18:17.00 | IriX64 | ``Erik, it produces MZ files :) |
| 18:17.21 | ``Erik | uh huh? |
| 18:17.34 | ``Erik | iirc, MZ is old dos executables (like .com files) and PE is windows stuff |
| 18:18.06 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXE |
| 18:18.16 | Maloeran | And "PE" stands for "Portable Executable" amusingly |
| 18:18.21 | Maloeran | Portable to windows and windows |
| 18:18.42 | ``Erik | there we go, mz is the old dos executable, then new dos is NE, then a couple os/2 ones (LE and LX), ... then PE |
| 18:19.25 | ``Erik | once upon a time, windows ran on non-x86 platforms... |
| 18:19.31 | ``Erik | that's where the 'portable' comes from |
| 18:19.42 | ``Erik | a buddy of mine had NT on an alpha, heh |
| 18:19.46 | IriX64 | ``erik my mged is a PE file. |
| 18:20.12 | ``Erik | as it should be... |
| 18:20.45 | IriX64 | and is :) |
| 18:21.28 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371853 |
| 18:21.53 | IriX64 | alphas were sometimes shipped with NT ``Erik. |
| 18:24.02 | ``Erik | the interesting part was that they did dynamic machine code translation, iirc |
| 18:24.23 | ``Erik | so you could run an 'x86' program, and the first time you did, it'd take a long time to start up, then would run as native alpha machine code from then on |
| 18:24.26 | IriX64 | alpha/nt? |
| 18:24.41 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 18:24.53 | IriX64 | didn't play with it overly long, just got the serial ports running. |
| 18:25.33 | IriX64 | nice little box though :) |
| 18:36.53 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371861 <=== IriX64 laff's hysterically. |
| 18:37.42 | IriX64 | winix is born :P |
| 18:44.35 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371879 <=== last one, won't bug you with it again. |
| 18:54.38 | IriX64 | now who's going to translate all those auto* tools to .bat land ;) |
| 19:00.32 | brlcad | i hear a volunteer! |
| 19:03.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: autoconf was complaining about AM_C_PROTOTYPES being called after AC_C_INLINE and AC_C_CONST, so move it up before them |
| 19:06.58 | IriX64 | tie him to the typer quick :) |
| 19:07.52 | IriX64 | errr you heard that silent plea for help and you do this to me? :P |
| 19:10.30 | Maloeran | I need input on a theory. This new box doesn't have a sound chip. If I were to forward a /dev/dsp socket to write to the /dev/dsp of another box, I would effectively be redirecting all audio output to the other machine's. Correct? |
| 19:12.46 | IriX64 | why not throw in a cheap sound card? |
| 19:13.04 | IriX64 | 45$ canadian gets you a pci soundblaster. |
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| 19:42.50 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371946 <== Where I want to go with this thing, at the moment she just "looks" pretty :) |
| 19:57.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371970 < now I return to ruminating just how big angels wings must be :) |
| 19:57.56 | IriX64 | btw, it works in both environments, admittly I rely on cygwin but still... |
| 19:58.22 | ``Erik | 'both' environment? O.o |
| 19:58.36 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:03.35 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/371979 <=== I'll shut up now, cheers. |
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| 20:29.38 | Maloeran | Just for the record, redirecting /dev/dsp worked nicely |
| 20:37.50 | ``Erik | bah, fucking snow |
| 20:42.23 | ``Erik | ... |
| 20:42.44 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/372055 <=== ``Erik, recognize this one? |
| 20:44.02 | IriX64 | hahahah this is an OS/2 32 bit executable. |
| 20:49.03 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php |
| 21:01.42 | IriX64 | TurboC high on Cygwin hehe. |
| 21:13.35 | IriX64 | btw pretty.exe produced by that TC ran in the cygwin environment stand alone. |
| 21:17.05 | Maloeran | Such a strange person |
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| 22:30.24 | Maloeran | I just noticed something. When the raytracing demo renders 100fps at 800x600, only ~30% of the cpus time is spent raytracing, the rest is "idle" ( according to 'top' ) |
| 22:31.16 | Maloeran | I'm guessing it's SDL's surface blitting being a serious bottleneck |
| 22:32.40 | Maloeran | Nevermind, SDL is just a small part of it. Blocking until the frame is complete instead of pushing and buffering several frames at the same time is the problem |
| 22:40.06 | IriX64 | farkles, does BRL-CAD support building share *and static libs on the same run? |
| 22:47.07 | brlcad | IriX64: of course it does, and is what it does by default |
| 22:50.59 | IriX64 | ty lucy :) |
| 22:51.55 | brlcad | seriously, you know the issue with cygwin .. if you're not going to investigate properly, why do you ask? |
| 22:53.41 | IriX64 | seperate thread for everybody? ie main launches them all and waits? |
| 22:54.37 | Maloeran | The proper is at the end of a frame, only a handful of threads might still be working, the others are done and there's no work left for this frame |
| 22:55.14 | Maloeran | In practice, I can't get my cpu use above 80% with 8 cores |
| 22:55.23 | brlcad | you're just now running into this problem? |
| 22:55.26 | IriX64 | have it wait on a universal done signale, ok got yours now i reset the flag and wait again. |
| 22:55.48 | ``Erik | he just now got enough hw to find the problem... |
| 22:55.50 | Maloeran | Yes brlcad, it was not much of an issue with just 2 cores |
| 22:56.10 | Maloeran | It's not a problem with the engine, just the demos |
| 22:56.27 | brlcad | I know, i'm just a bit surprised |
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| 02:15.45 | ``Erik | http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=797 |
| 02:16.08 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:18.06 | IriX64 | www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 |
| 05:13.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 05:13.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: major modification, now supporting projects that don't use one or more of the |
| 05:13.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: various autotools (e.g. not using automake, libtool, autoheader, libtool). also |
| 05:13.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: now supports projects that have recursive configures that go more than one level |
| 05:13.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: deep. |
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| 09:00.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: support projects that use the older/deprecated arg-less AC_INIT and instead search for an AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE declaration hopefully instead. also fix a couple missing 'no' typos during manual processing. |
| 09:05.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: some versions of automake report apple's dumb libtoolize problem differently, so try to be more general. |
| 09:05.38 | clock_ | brlcad: does BRL-CAD work on Apple as well? |
| 09:07.09 | brlcad | presume you mean non-mac os x apple? |
| 09:07.53 | brlcad | there have been several ports of brl-cad to older apples running various unices, including the Apple II |
| 09:08.18 | clock_ | I mean modern apple with their mac os x |
| 09:08.27 | brlcad | oh, of course |
| 09:08.34 | clock_ | cool portable :) |
| 09:09.00 | brlcad | it's (arguably) one of the core platforms consistently tested (along with a couple other OSs) |
| 09:09.29 | brlcad | happens to integrate rather well actually |
| 09:10.31 | brlcad | I did the initial port to Mac OS X during the early Pre Beta days |
| 09:12.34 | brlcad | it took me less than a half an hour to get just about everything up and running not including compile time (which was about an hour back then) .. circa end of 2000 |
| 09:14.15 | brlcad | another hour after that, I had smp and multithreading working, and this was all using the old build system -- which was considerly more painful than the one we have now to modify |
| 09:21.21 | clock_ | along with couple of OSes :) |
| 09:22.08 | clock_ | In Linux world it usually works the way that the core developer tests it on the single Linux distribution he happens to have on his desktop and then pronounces it portable |
| 09:22.12 | clock_ | and then in fact it works only on some Linux distros. |
| 09:22.54 | clock_ | Well BRL-CAD is a serious piece of software developed for 30 years by U. S. Army :) |
| 09:23.17 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: add bu_same_file() routine to determine whether two file names are indeed the same file or not. presently, the routine falls back to stat() to compare the inode numbers of the files in question |
| 09:23.19 | clock_ | OK 28 years |
| 09:23.28 | clock_ | Actually BRL-CAD is as old as I am :) |
| 09:24.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add bu_same_file() declaration so we can use it in places |
| 09:25.53 | brlcad | if you have the readme handy, it shows some of the portability heritage |
| 09:28.38 | brlcad | brl-cad's one of a few pieces of software (mostly limited to compilers, editors, operating systems) that has been "extensively portable" .. predating things like TCP, graphical displays, coding standards (ansi and posix) yet surviving and adapting to them all |
| 09:30.48 | brlcad | there actually used to be checks in the code for "is there tcp/ip networking api facilities available" .. and "does the floating point math behave like a cray 2" |
| 09:38.17 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/stat.c): add the similar routine bu_same_fd() to compare two file descriptors returned by open() |
| 10:49.28 | *** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=BitteAen@p57B5EFDE.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 10:51.01 | Bariton | hi |
| 10:51.10 | Bariton | is it possible to export the framebuffer as image? for example as png? |
| 10:56.31 | Bariton | anybody online? |
| 11:19.05 | Bariton | hey?!?! |
| 11:46.45 | *** part/#brlcad Bariton (n=BitteAen@p57B5EFDE.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
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| 14:08.30 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6396925.stm - Almost seems fun to play |
| 14:14.33 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:15.10 | archivist | some sad people about |
| 17:43.48 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 17:43.54 | lg_ | hi... |
| 17:57.34 | Maloeran | Hi again, brlcad should be able to answer any question you may have this time ;) |
| 17:57.55 | lg_ | ;-) |
| 17:58.21 | lg_ | i will try to describe |
| 18:01.55 | lg_ | basically I was wondering if there is some way to "round" edges |
| 18:02.56 | lg_ | the only way I could figure out so far is to cut away the corner and union a cylinder |
| 18:07.22 | lg_ | in my case, as I want to round edges following rips of a dome (it is for an architectural model), I would have to cut away rings and "fill" with a torus |
| 18:13.06 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:28.33 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/373296 << anybody know what this is about? |
| 18:34.33 | IriX64 | took silent off, tells me nothing other than its trying to link against it |
| 18:36.44 | IriX64 | awww cmon, I took lgl2 outta the makefile, its still erroring out on it. |
| 18:49.16 | IriX64 | configure finds glenable. |
| 18:50.28 | IriX64 | but opengl is not functionally available. |
| 18:58.47 | ``Erik | lg: you could also build a 'cutter' by intersecting and arb and a cylinder or whatever and use that to difference on your geometry *shrug* but yeah, there is no explicit 'bevel' operation to my knowledge |
| 18:59.32 | ``Erik | if you can do tcl or C, you can do something like a procdb to automate some of that for you, though *shrug* |
| 19:17.30 | lg_ | sorry erik, i am back, my flatmate had been occupying the computer ;-) |
| 19:18.43 | lg_ | i guess manually doing this is easier now, as i do not have that many edges to round |
| 19:20.07 | lg_ | the hard work is to construct all the midpoints and intersections before |
| 19:38.17 | lg_ | see you later, i need a restart now to connect my stupid bluetooth donge, I would like to be able to rotate the view so that I can read the result of labelvert... ;-) |
| 19:39.15 | *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 19:41.36 | brlcad | ahh. just missed em |
| 19:48.51 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.103) | |
| 20:13.21 | ``Erik | heh, why, was I wrong about something? or is there a clever trick I don't know? :D |
| 20:17.49 | ``Erik | yeah, but I like to at least pretend that I'm right once in a while ;) |
| 20:18.10 | IriX64 | especially if you're right *most of the time ;) |
| 20:20.55 | Maloeran | Mmhm, 80 million rays per second on the very old m1a2. I still remember the first time I broke through 500k, then one million |
| 20:22.04 | ``Erik | different hw, though... |
| 20:24.20 | Maloeran | *nods* Of course |
| 20:24.50 | Maloeran | Had any chance to quickly see if things run on big endian? |
| 20:27.04 | ``Erik | oh, lemme update |
| 20:33.42 | ``Erik | huh, it fails on opteron linux |
| 20:33.45 | ``Erik | "list empty" |
| 20:33.53 | Maloeran | Eh? |
| 20:34.15 | Maloeran | Oh, context creation failed, your $DISPLAY variable again? |
| 20:34.24 | ``Erik | $ uname -m -s -v |
| 20:34.25 | ``Erik | Linux #1 SMP Mon Sep 25 17:24:31 EDT 2006 x86_64 |
| 20:34.37 | ``Erik | ahh |
| 20:35.38 | ``Erik | should the rtgc be endian portable? |
| 20:35.45 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 20:36.44 | ``Erik | ok, with a fresh cache built, it works on g5, but is still yellow |
| 20:37.14 | Maloeran | Darn :), need to look into that bit format code again |
| 20:37.18 | Maloeran | *nods* Right, try that |
| 20:37.36 | Maloeran | So the text printing works on big endian too? Good |
| 20:37.47 | ``Erik | hm, beachballing so far... |
| 20:37.49 | ``Erik | text printing? |
| 20:38.18 | Maloeran | Don't you see text over the viewport? File font00.imtx? |
| 20:38.40 | ``Erik | as I assume you store in something other than network order... |
| 20:39.12 | Maloeran | I store everything in whatever the local machine saves as, but the loading code can read both native and flipped endian |
| 20:39.12 | ``Erik | <-- runs out of dir, didn't link the font map in |
| 20:39.24 | Maloeran | Try with the font file please |
| 20:39.38 | ``Erik | works on the opteron/linux box |
| 20:42.18 | ``Erik | big endian shows text, red and yellow... |
| 20:42.28 | Maloeran | Eheh okay |
| 20:42.42 | Maloeran | And the models still are yellow, neat |
| 20:43.20 | ``Erik | uhhh, hrm |
| 20:43.21 | ``Erik | it stopped |
| 20:43.26 | ``Erik | system load went away |
| 20:43.42 | ``Erik | and rfdemo is beach-balled |
| 20:43.55 | Maloeran | Stopped? Deadlock? |
| 20:44.14 | ``Erik | *shrug* can't tell exactly wat it's doing, but ti's not responsind |
| 20:45.07 | ``Erik | didn't like sigterm, had to sigkill it |
| 20:45.56 | Maloeran | Ahh, it's still yellow because SDL doesn't set the format alpha channel mask member |
| 20:50.12 | ``Erik | hm, that time it didn't lock up :/ |
| 20:50.31 | Maloeran | So there's a lock glitch somewhere |
| 20:56.35 | ``Erik | brlcad, jlo is lookin' for you |
| 20:59.38 | Maloeran | If you ever manage to see that lock happen again, a backtrace would be much appreciated. I would have suggested to enable RF_THREAD_DEBUG to get a clear log, but I guess it's way too rare for that |
| 21:09.06 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: massive cleanup, ws, indentation, rewrite some of the _WIN32 sections so there are fewer duplicate code sections. add a display_error function to report the windows read error via a dialog bog |
| 21:09.11 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:15.30 | Maloeran | Ah, OSX already has Spin Control and Thread Viewer for that kind of stuff |
| 21:15.44 | brlcad | ``Erik: nah, you weren't wrong -- you do the CSG manually to round edges |
| 21:16.17 | brlcad | there are a couple commands to automatically do this for you for arbs and perhaps cylinders iirc |
| 21:23.13 | brlcad | ahh, here we go.. rcc-tor, rpp-arch, & rcc-cap |
| 21:23.37 | brlcad | all apply a different sort of rounnding |
| 21:57.07 | ``Erik | jason has a class for simd vector math he wants to shove in for nurbs, but wanted to talk to you before making directories for some reason |
| 21:57.26 | ``Erik | (a c++ class... *shudder* be nice if we could de-c++ opennurbs O:-) ) |
| 22:04.13 | brlcad | heh, de-c++ about 200k lines of code? i think not... |
| 22:09.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: use bu_same_file() instead of stat() directly to compare whether the saveview script database and the current database are the same file |
| 22:27.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.1: fact that it uses stat(2) is inconsequential |
| 22:28.06 | ``Erik | hm, the first c++ 'compilers' were preprocessers to generate C code... I d'not what features opennurbs uses |
| 22:28.27 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:29.09 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/373648 <---- milestone :) |
| 22:29.44 | ``Erik | http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=1671 |
| 22:30.50 | IriX64 | hobbits? they.... |
| 22:30.58 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:32.32 | IriX64 | xgcc rulz ;) |
| 22:36.31 | IriX64 | do you know how many scripts hardcode gcc in them? |
| 22:38.29 | IriX64 | ``Erik , another angle of havoc, www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 |
| 22:38.50 | brlcad | IriX64: make LDFLAGS=--verbose |
| 22:39.17 | IriX64 | Id be swamped with output :) |
| 22:39.18 | brlcad | see if you can figure out why libpng/libz fail when you enable shared |
| 22:39.41 | IriX64 | told you thats gotta be mine, im not worried bout it for now. |
| 22:39.46 | brlcad | so just compile until it fails with that empty error without it, and then cd src/other && make LDFLAGS=... |
| 22:40.17 | IriX64 | its *not brlcad does the same with apache. |
| 22:40.26 | brlcad | it's not necessarily just yours -- I had some issue with using a shared (system) libz last time I compiled on cygwin |
| 22:41.03 | brlcad | it wasn't the same as your issue, but similar |
| 22:41.12 | IriX64 | ermf ill try it soon as i get this other build attempt out of the way, may be a couple of hours but i will do be patient. |
| 22:45.14 | brlcad | no rush, but it could be informative |
| 22:45.39 | IriX64 | canceled the build configuring now. |
| 22:46.36 | IriX64 | building shared and static as before. |
| 22:51.13 | IriX64 | this is peculiar it wants to build zlib, but i have a system zlib. |
| 22:54.58 | IriX64 | just a second ../../..src/other/libz/libz.la ?????? |
| 22:55.16 | IriX64 | shouldnt that be lo? |
| 22:56.21 | IriX64 | erf why do i do the same with apache tho, still points to me brlcad. |
| 22:56.41 | IriX64 | ill find it later |
| 22:56.58 | IriX64 | right now i want to see -sharedlib test |
| 23:02.41 | IriX64 | libz.la is a link that points to ../libz.la libz.so is a link that points to libz.so.1.1.4 |
| 23:04.28 | IriX64 | ``Erik? using msvc7? I'd be curious to see how that goes. |
| 23:04.33 | ``Erik | cygwin |
| 23:04.50 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 23:06.10 | IriX64 | remember to start with the Cygnus Solutions first and patch your way up :P |
| 23:06.17 | IriX64 | archive. |
| 23:07.30 | ``Erik | cygwin is installed on my xp box, it just doesn't have network connectivity to get the most recent src |
| 23:11.41 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 23:12.22 | lg_ | good night out there, here it is one p.m. now |
| 23:13.16 | *** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 23:13.24 | IriX64 | crossgcc has a new patch. |
| 23:13.31 | IriX64 | theirs not mine. |
| 23:13.46 | IriX64 | ftp://ftp.cygwin.com |
| 23:23.48 | ``Erik | http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejvdkuyp/flash/see.htm |
| 23:28.38 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:45.33 | IriX64 | heh indeed. |
| 23:53.30 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/373759 <<==== Cassandra dancing :) |
| 23:56.04 | IriX64 | when Cassandra dances, sparcs fly ;) |
| 00:10.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: prevent crashes if termcap is asked to perform a tgetnum() after a tgetent() fails |
| 00:13.01 | IriX64 | it bounces, cause i'm a rubber necker |
| 00:26.57 | IriX64 | that ultrasparc do solaris64? |
| 00:28.54 | ``Erik | .... don't they all? |
| 00:29.22 | IriX64 | interesting, a sparc32 running solaris64, quick call Sun Microsystems :) |
| 00:29.36 | ``Erik | ultra is the v9, they're all 64b |
| 00:30.38 | ``Erik | they can run 32b code... but the core can do 64b... :) |
| 00:31.14 | IriX64 | you and Maloeran and you're cores, dunno how to talk to you :) |
| 00:31.58 | ``Erik | we used to say 'chip' before the multi-core chips started showing up... |
| 00:32.08 | ``Erik | and in some arenas, alu is more accurate |
| 00:32.09 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 00:32.23 | ``Erik | heh, nybbles |
| 00:32.25 | IriX64 | industrial its all alu or used to be. |
| 00:32.42 | IriX64 | vic forever. |
| 00:32.45 | ``Erik | alu is just part of a core, though |
| 00:32.58 | Twingy | commadores were a 70's band no? |
| 00:33.09 | ``Erik | cache and mmu's and stuff get slapped in, too |
| 00:33.21 | IriX64 | it could be argued that the core comprimises the entire system |
| 00:33.28 | IriX64 | beat me to it :) |
| 00:33.53 | ``Erik | yeah, twinky, but their mommies dressed them funny ;) |
| 00:37.02 | IriX64 | ka-click -- 128bit xfer. |
| 00:38.00 | IriX64 | how would you do parallel pipling ``Erik, or maybe we should first define pipeling. |
| 00:38.13 | IriX64 | piplining too. |
| 00:38.23 | IriX64 | bother |
| 00:38.38 | Twingy | I need like 50 pounds of play-doh |
| 00:38.51 | IriX64 | to plug something obviously. |
| 00:39.05 | IriX64 | make your own, flour and water. |
| 00:41.11 | IriX64 | ``Erik, the bird of discretion just whispered in my ear ;) |
| 00:42.44 | IriX64 | louipc my hardly *nix system rendered havoc at a new angle, visit www.spaces.live.com/Irix64 |
| 00:44.49 | ``Erik | ... |
| 00:45.00 | ``Erik | back off the wallcandy, dude |
| 00:45.15 | IriX64 | urf blacklisted? |
| 00:45.34 | IriX64 | will tend to it. |
| 00:47.54 | ``Erik | if you want to get the same angle every time, check out the 'ae' command |
| 00:49.02 | IriX64 | got it. |
| 00:50.49 | ``Erik | hm, "help" shows a list of commands |
| 00:51.14 | IriX64 | I always overlook the obvious for some reason :) |
| 00:51.26 | ``Erik | (and that's not even all of them) |
| 00:51.44 | IriX64 | he just do a ls is that right in the bin dir? |
| 00:51.50 | IriX64 | heh i mean. |
| 00:52.45 | ``Erik | a lot of the programs in bin/ have commands in the tcl interpreter in mged, but there're other commands that don't have a bin/ correlary |
| 00:53.21 | IriX64 | so moral of the story is "IriX64, just take a look in all those lovely direcories". |
| 00:53.36 | ``Erik | more like "rtfm" |
| 00:53.36 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:56.52 | brlcad | ahhhh, finally found out why jove is now busted on os x |
| 00:58.12 | ``Erik | it's an emacs variant, it's broken by design O:-) |
| 00:59.58 | ``Erik | it's been so long since I learned vi, I don't remember if I was as dysfunctional initially as I am with emacs now... :/ |
| 01:00.28 | brlcad | it's barely a variant |
| 01:01.36 | brlcad | I had a cheat sheet sitting on my desk for about a week of non-stop coding before it became effective |
| 01:01.51 | brlcad | but then also by then, nothing else could compete |
| 01:02.03 | brlcad | and it just got better and better |
| 01:02.40 | ``Erik | <-- still learning more about vi o.O |
| 01:03.24 | louipc | read the fine manual ;) |
| 01:32.23 | ``Erik | http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=08222002 |
| 01:32.24 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 03:06.05 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:06.56 | IriX64 | This windows archer.... it's quite interesting. |
| 03:07.53 | IriX64 | are you planning on putting photon mapping into it? |
| 03:08.27 | brlcad | i believe the ray-tracer is already integrated, just a matter of feeding it the right options |
| 03:08.39 | brlcad | there's no gui if that's what you mean, like the lighting menu in mged |
| 03:08.52 | IriX64 | urmf, i'll learn, I just started looking at it. |
| 03:09.15 | brlcad | it's good stuff, it should be improved and integrated more with mged |
| 03:09.34 | IriX64 | agreed, some really good work here. |
| 03:11.01 | IriX64 | the ability to extract selected components and color them is neat. |
| 03:12.56 | IriX64 | s.nos1 in blue... nice. |
| 03:15.16 | IriX64 | hahah s.nos1 rt'ed beautiful job. |
| 03:32.23 | *** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 03:35.57 | bewt | was worried people would think I know something about the IriX64 system. |
| 03:39.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:52.53 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/other/jove/teach-jove.in): add automatic generation of the teach-jove script during configure |
| 03:53.05 | bewt | libtool, it's gotta be libtool. :( |
| 04:14.18 | bewt | sorry i mentioned apache here but brlcad is sometimes too big :) |
| 04:14.27 | bewt | err BRL-CAD. |
| 04:16.30 | bewt | bah i quit, it wasn't libtool. |
| 04:23.31 | bewt | tried it showed me nothing, but here's something, the rev on libapr-0.la doesn't mach the libtool i'm using. |
| 04:25.53 | bewt | and their ltmain bombs. |
| 04:28.55 | *** join/#brlcad cad19 (n=59ac9221@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 05:17.57 | Maloeran | Am I missing something or there's no efficient way to do triple or N buffering with SDL? |
| 05:45.50 | Maloeran | There's no way around the extra and wasteful copy from a frame surface to the pseudo-video surface, which in turn needs a copy to the actual video surface to be visible. Oh well, that wouldn't be a problem with X shared memory pixmaps |
| 05:52.36 | brlcad | it does it that way because you can't necessarily get access to the video surface |
| 05:52.50 | brlcad | depends on the video card and driver heavily |
| 05:53.34 | brlcad | so they do what works regardless (and apparently haven't gotten to an optimization of doing the direct blit when possible, though that has it's tradeoffs) |
| 05:54.00 | *** join/#brlcad bewt (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:55.05 | brlcad | you can do triple, N buffering, but not without getting a handle on the SDL internal for whatever platform you're on |
| 05:55.38 | brlcad | and if you're going to go that route, might as well write your own X code and forget portability |
| 05:56.59 | Maloeran | SDL could have exposed capabilities to do N buffering without too much trouble, it would always have avoided the extra copy no matter the platform |
| 05:58.55 | Maloeran | Having one software surface being copied to the video surface, or having multiple software surfaces being copied in turn, it's pretty much the same really |
| 05:59.44 | brlcad | and i'm sure you would have heard "patches welcome" |
| 05:59.51 | brlcad | sounds like a great feature, implement it ;) |
| 06:00.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 06:00.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: hmm.. such a conundrum.. it is nice to clean up and blow away the aclocal.m4 |
| 06:00.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: that configure drops in but now that recursive configure works, tcl/tk actually |
| 06:00.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: use their own custom aclocal.m4 (instead of acinclude.m4) so deleting the file |
| 06:00.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: has undesireable impact on build prep. disable aclocal.m4 deletion for now. |
| 06:00.42 | brlcad | reality is that it's quite a bit more complicated than you give it credit for to do reliably across various cards and without undesirable impact |
| 06:01.27 | Maloeran | It's purely a software, API and logic problem really... |
| 06:01.44 | brlcad | say you were on a card that actually a) had a means to get at video memory that you could b) reliably detect via sdl/opengl facilities .. as to whether to use it |
| 06:02.22 | Maloeran | brlcad, all the surfaces can be in system memory, you just need to be able to copy from any of the directly to the video surface |
| 06:02.26 | bewt | ``Erik, private wall candy is getting better ;) |
| 06:02.28 | brlcad | then take for example you have a card that only has 16 or 32 MB of memory.. you could perhaps do in-memory buffering, but leaving little to nothing to the app |
| 06:03.00 | Maloeran | any of them* directly |
| 06:03.07 | brlcad | Maloeran: sure, they can all be in memory -- that's what they do for double buffering now iirc |
| 06:03.29 | brlcad | system memory that is |
| 06:03.39 | Maloeran | Yes, and there's absolutely no reason not to allow triple, quad or quntillion buffering if one has the system memory for it |
| 06:03.48 | bewt | brlcad, virtual memory comes to mind, but then so does disk thrashing. |
| 06:03.52 | brlcad | even better is to actually write directly to video memory if you wanted to tune for the best performance |
| 06:04.19 | Maloeran | It's better to write pixels to system memory and DMA the whole thing afterwards |
| 06:04.32 | brlcad | if that is available, sure |
| 06:04.55 | bewt | err a pixel has numerous bits. |
| 06:05.11 | bewt | you would slow it down using DMA. |
| 06:05.44 | Maloeran | Oh well, copying 150 frames of 800x600 twice per second instead of once does not sound appealing, just because of a SDL limitation |
| 06:05.55 | bewt | DVA is preferred but certainly not portable. |
| 06:06.02 | brlcad | Maloeran: if I remember back correctly, you can create your own sdl surfaces and do your own buffering too, providing your quintillion buffering |
| 06:06.41 | Maloeran | Really? Any clue on what to look for? I really didn't see anything like that |
| 06:07.28 | Maloeran | You can create surfaces, but to actually get them to show on the screen, you would have to : copy them to the SDL's "screen" surface, ask SDL to copy the "screen" surface to the actual video surface |
| 06:07.58 | brlcad | you create an sdl sw surface, and then use that with sdl_flip |
| 06:08.21 | brlcad | you can toggle between arbitrary surfaces on a flip |
| 06:08.21 | Maloeran | SDL_flip is for the one double buffered "screen" surface |
| 06:09.10 | Maloeran | SDL_Flip() takes one parameter and it's SDL's "screen" surface which may have a back buffer built-in, but that's very limited |
| 06:10.24 | brlcad | that's what I'm referring too .. this goes back a while, but the idea is to create multiple sdl_surface screens in sw mode |
| 06:11.03 | Maloeran | There's no way to render these without copying them to "screen", then asking SDL to update "screen" to video, is there? |
| 06:11.04 | brlcad | they the video mode has to be double buffered regardless, just so you can flip |
| 06:11.33 | Maloeran | Create multiple screen surfaces? Oh hum |
| 06:11.35 | brlcad | you maintain one "screen" for each of your surfaces |
| 06:11.39 | brlcad | right |
| 06:12.06 | Maloeran | I didn't read anything about that, I'll try something |
| 06:12.17 | brlcad | that's just the old sdl way to do your own buffering |
| 06:12.17 | Maloeran | If you have any example or documentation, it could be nice |
| 06:12.26 | brlcad | e.g. if you had no video memory |
| 06:12.34 | brlcad | ideally, you'd try to get as many screens with SDL_HWSURFACE first |
| 06:13.05 | brlcad | since should try to do direct mapped video memory if the card supports it |
| 06:13.24 | brlcad | but the code is a bit nasty to be fault tolerance to detect the failure and fall back to SDL_SWSURFACE |
| 06:13.33 | Maloeran | Writing pixels to hardware surfaces is a bit too slow, I'm fine with them being in software |
| 06:13.43 | brlcad | and then wierd things can happen if you have two hw and one sw, etc |
| 06:13.44 | Maloeran | I just want them to get directly in the real video surface with just one copy |
| 06:14.33 | brlcad | if you're doing your own buffering, the hw surface is going to be darn faster than doing sw -- you're just making sdl do the write to a hw surface |
| 06:16.10 | Maloeran | Yes, that's probably right... HW only works fullscreen though, usually, but I'll play around once I get the buffering working |
| 06:16.34 | Maloeran | I'm surprised there's not a word about this in the SDL docs |
| 06:16.40 | brlcad | ahh, yeah that's true.. lots of cards won't let you get a hw surface in various modes |
| 06:16.49 | brlcad | that's part of the whole robustness problem i mentioned |
| 06:20.04 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's rare for an app to actually benefit from triple buffering .. exceedingly rare even for games |
| 06:20.52 | brlcad | and many display systems are providing double-buffering of their own these days, so you get triple for free when you double-buffer your own |
| 06:21.33 | Maloeran | Indeed, but it's a different when dealing with software rendering multiple frames at the same time |
| 06:21.34 | brlcad | depends on the OS and system, of course .. not too common on linux iirc |
| 06:23.28 | Maloeran | a bit* different |
| 06:24.17 | brlcad | yep, and the variety of apps that need to render frames is a tiny "market" |
| 06:25.02 | brlcad | ray-tracers .. fractal generators .. maybe screensavers.. |
| 06:25.27 | bewt | brlcad: my on board video cheats, it uses system ram for video memory. |
| 06:25.33 | brlcad | i think what you're wanting to do used to be a lot more popular a decade or two ago |
| 06:25.47 | brlcad | when you couldn't get the hardware to double-buffer |
| 06:26.43 | brlcad | bewt: yep, pretty common to push the app to video so the mod can modify the frames on the fly |
| 06:26.58 | bewt | reserved for video 64-256m |
| 06:27.02 | Maloeran | Other APIs have good support for that kind of stuff, it was rather trivial with X and... DX3 ( okay, a long time ago :) ) |
| 06:27.35 | brlcad | yeah, it's fairly trivial in win32 and with cocoa .. |
| 06:28.49 | brlcad | another side effect of there not being many serious games on linux .. issues like this have always been a problem -- X11 being an absolute pig in most respects until very very recently |
| 06:29.56 | Maloeran | X isn't that bad with shared memory pixmaps |
| 06:30.16 | bewt | X isn't bad with opengl either. |
| 06:30.31 | brlcad | heh, compared to the other systems, X11 is one of the worst |
| 06:30.41 | bewt | define other systems. |
| 06:30.44 | brlcad | it's really been only in the past 5-10 years that it's improved |
| 06:31.06 | brlcad | closer to 5 for that matter, Xorg corrected a lot of the boneheadness of X11 |
| 06:31.09 | bewt | granted, but many systems go thru a learning/growing curve. |
| 06:31.27 | bewt | look at the roots of windows :) |
| 06:31.33 | brlcad | that doesn't hold for X11, it's older than all of the others |
| 06:31.44 | Maloeran | Ah well. That's probably right, but I was beginning high school 10 years ago and writing my first lines of code :) |
| 06:31.53 | bewt | so X is a little slow, big deal |
| 06:32.09 | brlcad | heck, even having shared memory on linux used to be problematic |
| 06:32.44 | brlcad | it's only been really recent that you could get direct opengl access through X11, and it's still somewhat flaky |
| 06:32.50 | bewt | X was at inception problematic, but then so was the Model T |
| 06:33.10 | bewt | try it on windows xp pro |
| 06:33.29 | brlcad | I dont' think it was "problematic", but it was fundamentally flawed from a performance perspective because it had a network-oriented design |
| 06:34.09 | bewt | that network design led to many Xterminal, (X in hardware at least the client side) |
| 06:34.11 | Maloeran | It's far more complex than other APIs for this reason, but it's still rather elegant, I have no problem with it |
| 06:34.15 | brlcad | when everything is a client->server->client->hw communication .. you're going to seriously suck compared to something doing app->hw |
| 06:34.33 | brlcad | it's been recent that X11 changed so that you could do client->hw more reliably |
| 06:34.42 | bewt | that should read app->os>hardware |
| 06:34.54 | brlcad | elegant? .. heh .. er .. wow |
| 06:35.06 | brlcad | comprehensive.. yes |
| 06:35.12 | brlcad | i wouldn't call it elegant in the least though |
| 06:35.13 | Maloeran | It solves a fairly complex problem |
| 06:35.26 | bewt | quite well at that |
| 06:35.27 | brlcad | it makes the problem considerably more complex than it needs tob e |
| 06:36.21 | brlcad | it does have a lot of great aspects, that can be said |
| 06:36.51 | Maloeran | Right |
| 06:36.54 | bewt | making the root window, hidden makes it faster yet |
| 06:37.15 | brlcad | but from an overall utility, and compared to the other APIs out there, it's a big reason GUI development on linux/unix/bsd has been so slow for two decades compared to the other platforms |
| 06:37.54 | Maloeran | Is there? X is extremely low-level in comparison to other "native" APIs, one generally uses toolkits built on top of it |
| 06:37.55 | brlcad | granted, a lot of the problems were actually political, and not technical |
| 06:39.24 | bewt | and not a very good one :) |
| 06:40.32 | brlcad | i'm talking about equivalent "base" api kits for managing the display -- things like core graphics or even the old toolbox on mac, the mfc/win32 foundation libraries, be's graphic server, etc |
| 06:40.35 | Maloeran | I think I just really like the low-level and flexibility aspects of X, it's really powerful. It's the assembly of GUI programming ;) |
| 06:41.04 | Maloeran | win32 remains quite a mess, but it's very limiting and high-level, it can afford to be simpler |
| 06:41.22 | brlcad | win32 goes high and low |
| 06:41.30 | brlcad | which is what makes it seem not simple |
| 06:41.52 | brlcad | there are calls for everything low level too, though |
| 06:42.12 | bewt | sadly no more inportb() |
| 06:42.16 | Maloeran | Ah yes, perhaps, I try to forget my win32 days |
| 06:42.49 | brlcad | the other two are much better examples of pretty APIs, clean low fast nice |
| 06:43.15 | brlcad | Be's was spectacular, but alas.. |
| 06:43.18 | bewt | would that they would adopt a universal API |
| 06:44.00 | brlcad | bewt: how's that compile coming with LDFLAGS=-verbose ? |
| 06:44.01 | Maloeran | BeOS and its famous is_computer_on_fire() :). I never tried any native Mac programming |
| 06:44.13 | Maloeran | In fact, I think I never used a Mac |
| 06:44.58 | brlcad | core graphics isn't too shabby |
| 06:46.29 | brlcad | cocoa is sweet, but is a higher level api akin to gtk/qt |
| 06:47.05 | Maloeran | gtk2 I liked, but I don't do much GUI |
| 06:49.53 | brlcad | it's a bit of a beast, and lives in dependency hell, but great featureset |
| 06:50.03 | brlcad | and the predominant industry momentum |
| 07:59.46 | bewt | brlcad: building rt for you now. |
| 07:59.53 | bewt | err rtlib. |
| 08:00.09 | bewt | doh librt. |
| 08:03.59 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/374105 |
| 08:06.11 | IriX64 | btw, that wall candy is still doing its thing. |
| 08:11.41 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/374109 |
| 08:22.18 | brlcad | librt is not the situation that was causing problems |
| 08:22.46 | brlcad | you're starting from flawed premises.. you can't just start tossing stuff in the middle like that |
| 08:23.54 | brlcad | from a *fresh* build .. the point was to add the --verbose ld flag *after* you encountered the libz and/or libpng build failure (*without* using --disable-shared) |
| 08:24.46 | brlcad | seriously.. all the rest is distracting from making any progress on identifying the first problem .. |
| 08:25.10 | brlcad | stuff failing farther down the build line is not interesting at all until the first failure is taken care of properly |
| 08:25.30 | IriX64 | whats the point of adding the flag *after the error with libpng |
| 09:07.31 | brlcad | for several reasons, to be sure that it errors (it should still error), and so that the output is just the relevant verbose linkage details and not pages of irrelevant log |
| 09:08.29 | brlcad | otherwise the signal noise ratio begins to be practically useless -- too much useless garbage that doesn't get us anywhere closer to finding out what the actual problem is |
| 09:24.04 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 09:29.48 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |
| 12:15.42 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 12:16.13 | dli | I wonder how do I show screw thread in brlcad |
| 12:37.53 | *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 12:42.41 | dli | how do I print out the 3d image? |
| 12:43.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test for strlcpy |
| 12:46.48 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: initial addition of strlcpy() |
| 12:48.30 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: |
| 12:48.30 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: initial addition of strlcpy() |
| 12:48.30 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: typo in basename declaration |
| 12:50.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: HAVE_MEMSET and HAVE_STRTOK added |
| 12:52.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: |
| 12:52.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: errno.h defines ENAMETOOLONG |
| 12:52.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: should know its own prototype |
| 12:54.39 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: should know its own prototype |
| 12:56.28 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: basename.c and strlcpy.c added |
| 12:57.36 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: strlcpy.c added |
| 13:03.57 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: include sysv.h to get the basename prototype (in case HAVE_BASENAME is not defined) |
| 13:09.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Added mutex protection for session open and close |
| 13:31.40 | rossberg | dli: what's a 3d image? |
| 13:31.59 | dli | rossberg, from raytracing |
| 13:32.43 | dli | rendering as postscript is ugly, and not what I see on screen |
| 13:35.05 | rossberg | i'm using the ray trace panel in mged, it has an option to write the result into a *.pix file |
| 13:35.40 | dli | rossberg, howto? |
| 13:35.53 | rossberg | there are programs to convert the pix format e.g. into png |
| 13:36.19 | dli | rossberg, how to output to .pix? |
| 13:36.51 | rossberg | menubar -> Tools -> Raytrace Control Panel |
| 13:38.06 | rossberg | there you have to change the "Destination" |
| 13:38.15 | dli | rossberg, that's the same panel as in File ->Raytrace |
| 13:38.46 | dli | rossberg, great, thanks |
| 13:49.14 | dli | rossberg, the .pix is not valid for imagemagick |
| 13:51.26 | rossberg | dli: you need to convert it e.g. with pix-png |
| 13:51.47 | rossberg | (look at man pix-png first) |
| 13:52.31 | dli | rossberg, no, the file generated is invalid, repeating 0x320000 , nothing else |
| 13:52.53 | dli | indeed, it's 0x000032 |
| 13:53.04 | Maloeran | brlcad, multiple calls to create "screen" surfaces to perform N buffering always return the same surface ; doesn't seem to be the recommended method |
| 13:56.00 | rossberg | dli: did you tried "pix-png -a yourfile.pix > yourfile.png |
| 13:56.41 | Maloeran | The #sdl crowd doesn't seem to know either |
| 13:57.01 | dli | rossberg, only garbage in the .png generated |
| 13:58.14 | dli | rossberg, hold on, it's not all 0x000032 |
| 13:59.21 | dli | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:59.22 | dli | pix-png: unable to autosize |
| 14:05.56 | rossberg | dli: ok, now try pix-png -w <width in pixel> -n <height in pixel> sample-holder.pix > sample-holder.png |
| 14:07.23 | dli | rossberg, great, it's an imagemagick bug then |
| 14:16.25 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bariton@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:19.27 | *** join/#brlcad Bary (n=Bariton@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:20.30 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874995.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:25.39 | Elperion | is there a way to export the framebuffer as graphic? |
| 14:34.38 | rossberg | Elperion: (menubar)File -> Raytrace; change "Destination" to pix-file; read the pix-png manual page |
| 14:36.01 | Elperion | ok thx |
| 14:36.24 | Elperion | great |
| 14:36.27 | Elperion | i never looked there |
| 14:36.28 | Elperion | cya |
| 15:08.52 | dli | any way to move a part ( .r range)? like linear shift |
| 15:56.01 | ``Erik | int32 is_computer_on(void) Returns 1 if the computer is on. If the computer isn't on, the value returned by this function is undefined. |
| 15:56.12 | ``Erik | double is_computer_on_fire(void) Returns the temperature of the motherboard if the computer is currently on fire. If the computer isn't on fire, the function returns some other value. |
| 15:56.23 | ``Erik | interesting, those beos kids have a sense of humor :) |
| 16:40.53 | brlcad | wow, the same question twice in one morning |
| 16:44.10 | Maloeran | brlcad, confirmed by SDL folks, SDL can't do N buffering without nasty extra copies |
| 16:45.20 | brlcad | Maloeran: define "nasty extra copies" |
| 16:45.37 | Maloeran | Copy from surface N to "screen" surface, copy from "screen" surface to video memory |
| 16:46.01 | Maloeran | So there are 2 copies per frame when only one should be required with a proper API |
| 16:47.09 | Maloeran | I'm vaguely amused by how much faster non-SDL buffering to record videos is |
| 18:48.49 | brlcad | Maloeran: er .. you only get the one copy with some sort of direct memory access, mapping video memory to some address range in system memory |
| 18:49.36 | brlcad | that much was already pretty much guaranteed to not be portably possible |
| 18:49.40 | brlcad | I thought you understood that just from what we talked about earlier.. |
| 18:50.14 | brlcad | that's why they are SDL_SWSURFACEs |
| 18:51.42 | brlcad | you cannot guarantee just one copy without having the hardware capability irrsepective of the API (which maybe is what you are presuming/assuming) |
| 18:54.14 | Maloeran | brlcad, SDL can copy the content of the software "screen" surface to the actual video memory with just one copy |
| 18:54.43 | Maloeran | If I want to copy another software surface, not the software "screen" surface, I need two whole copy operations |
| 18:55.11 | Maloeran | It's an arbitrary limitation, just to keep the API simple |
| 18:56.58 | brlcad | not sure I follow what you mean by "another software surface, not the software "screen" surface" |
| 18:57.28 | brlcad | you create an sdl_surface .. you write pixels to it |
| 18:57.41 | brlcad | sdl copies those to video memory |
| 18:57.54 | Maloeran | That works for the software "screen" surface, yes |
| 18:58.04 | brlcad | right |
| 18:58.22 | Maloeran | If you want to copy another surface to video memory, you first have to copy it to the software "screen" surface, *then* you have to copy the software "screen" surface to video memory |
| 18:58.34 | Maloeran | Which is terribly wasteful |
| 18:59.15 | brlcad | you have another screen surface |
| 18:59.38 | Maloeran | You can only have one "screen" surface |
| 18:59.49 | brlcad | you have another sdl_surface |
| 19:00.29 | Maloeran | Yes, but you can not copy from it directly to video memory |
| 19:00.35 | brlcad | i'm just not following what you expect "should" be possible, other than it sounding like you wanting hardware surfaces |
| 19:00.40 | Maloeran | You can only copy from it to the "screen" surface, which must in turn be copied to video memory |
| 19:01.06 | brlcad | right, but you CAN'T do that reliably without assuming hardware capabilities |
| 19:01.10 | Maloeran | I should be able to have 10 software "surfaces", and myself copy the data from any of them directly into video memory |
| 19:01.34 | Maloeran | The only limitation is system memory, there's still only one hardware surface |
| 19:01.55 | brlcad | what you're talking about is writing to mapped video memory .. video memory mapped to system memory so you are effectively writing to video memory |
| 19:02.40 | brlcad | there are some cards that will directly reference system memory for you, but even that is not prevalent |
| 19:02.50 | Maloeran | Writing to it, DMA'ing to it ; I should be able to copy from a surface directly to the real video hardware surface ( not SDL's "screen" ) |
| 19:03.14 | brlcad | with DMA .. that's exactly what I'm saying is a hardware characteristic |
| 19:03.20 | brlcad | not something that can be taken for granted |
| 19:03.25 | Maloeran | ... Okay, I think I need to clarify |
| 19:03.51 | Maloeran | SDL already copies from the *software* single and only screen surface directly, with one copy, no matter the underlying method used |
| 19:04.26 | brlcad | sure, you provide the pixels, and it stores them *somewhere* |
| 19:04.28 | Maloeran | It should be possible to have other identical *software* surfaces which could be copied by SDL directly in the video memory, by the same mechanisms. They are all software surfaces, it doesn't even matter which one is being copied |
| 19:05.18 | brlcad | it's only "directly in the video memory" when you have video mapped memory, DMA or equivalence |
| 19:05.33 | Maloeran | I'm not ever accessing that memory directly, SDL is |
| 19:05.42 | brlcad | sure |
| 19:05.58 | Maloeran | SDL is copying from its "screen" software surface directly into the video memory, but it can't copy directly from any other surface |
| 19:06.26 | Maloeran | And that is most arbitrary, it's an API and design limitation ; it's easily done in X or DX |
| 19:07.24 | brlcad | ahh, maybe you mean it copies from what system memory buffer to another system memory buffer before sending to the video card? .. i.e. tying a particular surface to the video mapped hardware? |
| 19:08.27 | Maloeran | Yes, that's the only way to copy from one software surface to video memory, you have to go through the software "screen" surface with SDL first |
| 19:08.56 | brlcad | aah, okay.. that's not what you were initially saying |
| 19:09.04 | brlcad | at least not the way it was worded |
| 19:09.17 | brlcad | but then we only have like three nouns to work with here.. heh |
| 19:09.35 | Maloeran | It sure is what I'm trying to explain by 10 different ways since yesterday :) |
| 19:09.55 | brlcad | i can see that, though I recall there being a way to change swap "screen" surfaces |
| 19:09.57 | *** join/#brlcad cad65 (n=4788598e@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:10.04 | brlcad | maybe that's no longer possible |
| 19:10.26 | brlcad | that's what I was referring to with the flip -- you actually flip to an entirely different screen |
| 19:10.40 | cad65 | i can't access freenode from my irc client today - can anyone here help me out? |
| 19:10.54 | brlcad | that may or may not be a double-buffered hardware surface, or might be a software one |
| 19:10.54 | Maloeran | The built-in SDL flipping capabilities are limited to two surfaces |
| 19:11.27 | cad65 | i'm using a web chat now |
| 19:11.31 | cad65 | here's what i'm getting - http://www.scipisc.com/view_image.php?id=181 |
| 19:11.44 | brlcad | right, that much I know.. but there at least used to be (or at least I remember there being many years ago) a way to point the second buffer to an arbitrary sdl_surface so when you do the flip, it becomes primary |
| 19:12.09 | brlcad | cad65: it's rather obvious you're using web chat ;) |
| 19:12.18 | Maloeran | Very neat, I guess it must have been dropped, most unfortuantely |
| 19:12.35 | brlcad | Maloeran: I bet you can still do it |
| 19:12.36 | cad65 | brlcad: oh |
| 19:12.37 | cad65 | lol |
| 19:12.48 | brlcad | but probably not through the public SDL api |
| 19:13.13 | brlcad | you'd probably have to set some struct values on your own |
| 19:13.14 | brlcad | because the basic operation should be doable |
| 19:13.18 | cad65 | so how do I get help on my irc client connection issue? its only to freenode |
| 19:13.19 | Maloeran | I see, does SDL have a hidden API or must I hack the source to expose its static functions? |
| 19:13.25 | Maloeran | This is messy |
| 19:13.27 | brlcad | dunno, maybe they do a lot more to manage the screen surface these days |
| 19:13.56 | cad65 | i am connected just fine to the mozilla client |
| 19:14.13 | Maloeran | Oh well, it's just annoying to seriously lose performance due to SDL when getting above 100fps |
| 19:14.16 | brlcad | Maloeran: not exactly hidden .. i mean you'd just have to read thier sources to see what they do during sdl_flip to determine what you'd need to update in the associated screen to get it to work |
| 19:14.31 | brlcad | cad65: can you ping irc.freenode.net? |
| 19:14.54 | brlcad | Maloeran: ahh.. you're complaining about 100+fps only? bahhh. :) |
| 19:14.59 | cad65 | let me check |
| 19:15.19 | cad65 | brlcad: since I can connect to different servers, shouldn't I be able to connect to freenode as well? |
| 19:15.30 | brlcad | cad65: of course not, it's a different server :P |
| 19:15.47 | cad65 | well, no problem with pinging |
| 19:15.59 | cad65 | oh...okay (irc rookie here) |
| 19:16.02 | Maloeran | Well, brlcad, I lose a 10% at around 30fps... and I lose 50% due to SDL at 200fps! |
| 19:16.14 | cad65 | so the ping was successful |
| 19:16.21 | cad65 | are there any irc moderators in here? |
| 19:16.33 | brlcad | cad65: you mean network or channel? |
| 19:16.43 | brlcad | cad65: you do realize you're in a cad channel? :) |
| 19:17.07 | brlcad | cad65: you might want to try a different port |
| 19:17.21 | cad65 | hrm |
| 19:17.24 | cad65 | interesting |
| 19:17.46 | cad65 | and a port could block one server to my irc client and not another one? |
| 19:17.56 | brlcad | sure, why not |
| 19:18.25 | brlcad | not likely, but possible |
| 19:18.58 | cad65 | darn...I can't switch rooms in this web interface |
| 19:19.17 | brlcad | yep, it's configured that way on purpose |
| 19:19.36 | brlcad | otherwise you could cause all sorts of trouble and we'd be liable for problems you cause |
| 19:20.07 | brlcad | that web interface is intended for interactive discussion about BRL-CAD |
| 19:20.29 | brlcad | how you got to it as a general means for freenode network support is beyond me |
| 19:21.01 | cad65 | lol - I just found it |
| 19:21.04 | cad65 | sorry to bother you |
| 19:21.07 | brlcad | for starters, you could try a better irc client than chatzilla |
| 19:21.28 | brlcad | something that might give you better output status |
| 19:25.31 | Maloeran | :) Nice |
| 19:30.27 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-197-79.uchicago.edu) | |
| 19:30.59 | dli | which command to rescale? |
| 19:42.39 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): Add vector class, with very initial support for simd operations. |
| 19:43.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Include vector class for use by brep intersection routines |
| 19:44.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add compilation of brep_test program |
| 19:46.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: Add brep_test program for simple unit testing |
| 19:46.32 | Maloeran | I think I'll never understand why people make a class or a struct for a mere "vector" rather than an array, especially to use SIMD instructions |
| 19:50.37 | Maloeran | i.e. If you have 4 packed vectors of x,y,z, you could often operate on the 12 floats with just 3 instructions, try to do nicely that with 4 structs or classes |
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| 20:18.38 | brlcad | Maloeran: primarily for type transparency and operator overloading |
| 20:20.17 | brlcad | so you're not actually tied to particular simd types, and don't need to resort to *_add() functions where a + b might provide cleaner code |
| 20:21.01 | brlcad | if you don't care about or don't leverage those two features, then yes -- they are completely unnecessary overhead |
| 20:22.05 | clock_ | leverage that is a word used often in PR :) |
| 20:22.25 | brlcad | as are lots of other words, your point? :) |
| 20:23.10 | brlcad | i mean if you made a vector class and still had a ->add() method.. that would be a bit silly, and doesn't utilize the type transparency benefit |
| 20:24.46 | Maloeran | Indeed brlcad, it just really gets in the way of optimisation, especially for SIMD |
| 20:25.07 | brlcad | not when it's done right |
| 20:25.19 | brlcad | it "should" expand out into exactly the same inline'd calls |
| 20:25.28 | brlcad | when it's implemented correctly |
| 20:25.44 | brlcad | no object/function calls, no evil vtable lookups, etc |
| 20:26.27 | Maloeran | Sure sure... I'm just saying I may want to load a x,y,z vector and the x of the following vector into one __m128 |
| 20:26.33 | brlcad | it the coder doesn't make a mistake and the compiler does it's just, you can end up with the same result, but simplified maintainable code |
| 20:28.13 | brlcad | what you suggest isn't orthogonal .. you could write a routine that was overloaded to do exactly that that expands to the same operations |
| 20:28.32 | brlcad | if you can write a macro/inline for it at least, there's a way |
| 20:28.54 | brlcad | just with a class, you can avoid the macro/function syntax for entire classes of problems |
| 20:29.34 | brlcad | that along with automatic initialization and deallocations if any are really the only reasons of value, imho |
| 20:30.18 | brlcad | and there are plenty of codes where that just doesn't matter, like if the library itself is going to act as an abstraction layer and hide the fact that it's doing sse under the hood |
| 20:30.19 | Maloeran | I recognize the general value, it just seems hardly compatible with low-level SIMD optimisation to my eyes |
| 20:30.57 | brlcad | it's not a matter of compatibility, it's just different syntax .. you end up with the same assembly for what I"m referring to |
| 20:31.51 | brlcad | for the implementations where you don't, and there's some penalty (like vtables), I'd completely agree .. that's a bad idea, a very bad idea |
| 20:32.08 | Maloeran | Of course so, but perhaps we are not seeing the same kind of low-level SIMD optimisations... |
| 20:32.28 | Maloeran | I mean, I have mixed floats and pointers in the same __m128 ;) |
| 20:33.01 | brlcad | so long as you're taking about lines of code being written, then we are talking about the same optimizations |
| 20:33.38 | brlcad | all that changes it what functions you write for your data types |
| 20:33.47 | brlcad | it expands to the same operations |
| 20:34.54 | brlcad | and those operations can be whatever you want -- packing and unpacking floats and pointers, maintaining states or not, doing whatever |
| 20:35.28 | Maloeran | Then you end up doing a class API which is identical to the SIMD intrinsics |
| 20:35.31 | brlcad | its JUST a difference in syntax/wrapping, like if you wrote all of your simd operations using a macro |
| 20:37.25 | Maloeran | Right, I agree of course, I guess the only point is to map some common instructions to overloaded operators, and expose an interface similar to intrinsics for all the rest |
| 20:37.27 | brlcad | it could be identical or not, depends on how you write it -- in general there are common patterns |
| 20:38.35 | brlcad | right, that is really the only point -- though once you have that interface, you very likely can translate it to other SIMD implementations too with no change to the code that used those classes |
| 20:40.06 | brlcad | in practice, I don't find that latter to be as much of a benefit as others claim, but some have zealotry on the encapsulation benefit |
| 20:40.29 | Maloeran | Eheh, I noticed |
| 20:40.57 | Maloeran | You could write an interface to wrap the original SIMD intrinsics just as well, anyhow |
| 20:41.57 | brlcad | yep, you can do the same thing in C |
| 20:42.21 | brlcad | only difference of wrapping in a class is operator overloading and automatic init |
| 20:43.46 | brlcad | that was the main/only point from the start -- type transparency and operator overloading .. if you don't care about that or wouldn't use those features much, then it does diminish the benefits |
| 20:44.26 | dli | can I move a part (.r)? like linear motion, or rotation |
| 20:45.16 | brlcad | I just found it odd that you'd "never understand why people make a class" .. their reasoning (whether you like or agree with it) seems perfectly understandable |
| 20:45.49 | brlcad | dli: tra and rot commands |
| 20:46.49 | brlcad | sry, orot and/or rotobj |
| 20:46.59 | Maloeran | brlcad, it does not seem reasonable to me when one needs all the low-level flexibility of SIMD intrinsics to get proper performance |
| 20:47.20 | Maloeran | SIMD intrinsics are a large interface, to makign a class with all these capabilities is a lot of code which serves little actual purpose |
| 20:47.32 | Maloeran | "so making" a class with |
| 20:47.53 | Maloeran | Just my personal view on the matter of course |
| 20:47.53 | brlcad | Maloeran: heh, you keep making the leap to the encapsulation in a class impacting performance and that's hogwash when done correctly |
| 20:48.10 | Maloeran | Of course so, but it's still a lot of code with very little purpose! |
| 20:48.12 | brlcad | it sounds like you just don't agree, and that's fine with me -- your idea |
| 20:48.13 | dli | brlcad, " sed " says object is not solid |
| 20:48.42 | brlcad | dli: sed is to edit primitives, you have to go into object edit mode |
| 20:48.54 | brlcad | oed command or matrix edit via gui |
| 20:48.54 | Maloeran | I don't really like seeing 1000 lines of code just to be a full and exact wrapper around something which would have done the job as well. Anyhow... |
| 20:49.40 | brlcad | only because it rarely is a full and exact wrapper |
| 20:49.52 | brlcad | but that's also just to wrap one interface |
| 20:49.56 | brlcad | throw in two more |
| 20:50.12 | Maloeran | Ah yes, then it serves a purpose |
| 20:50.46 | brlcad | i've seen some people prefer it just for the syntactic sugar though |
| 20:51.02 | brlcad | being able to add two things using +-/ instead of some add(), etc |
| 20:51.29 | brlcad | regardless of needing a pack_pointer_with_float() or whatever other tricks |
| 20:51.45 | brlcad | it keeps the simple simple |
| 20:51.56 | brlcad | dli: have you seen the quick reference cheat sheet? |
| 20:52.03 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf |
| 20:52.22 | dli | brlcad, yes, and thr trifold one, very puzzling |
| 20:52.24 | brlcad | on the second page on the back in the first column are the commands related to editing |
| 20:53.01 | brlcad | dli: yeah, it's not meant to be instructional -- it's informative to the modelers that know most of the operations but can't remember the command name or args, etc |
| 20:54.13 | brlcad | dli: oed is likely the command that you want, and is rather tricky to understand at first with the left and right side business |
| 20:55.36 | brlcad | say you have some region named region.r and in there is a combination comb.c with two primitives prim1.s and prim2.s .. to use oed to edit the matrix over comb.c, you'd use oed /region.r comb.c/prim1.s |
| 20:56.19 | brlcad | to rotate all instances of region.r, you'd use oed / region.r/comb.c/prim1.s |
| 20:56.46 | dli | brlcad, I just want to rotate the whole region.r |
| 20:56.47 | brlcad | you have to specify all the way down to a primitive so that it's explicit as to which coordinate axis you are editing about |
| 20:57.49 | brlcad | you have to anchor the edit from a known point -- all primitives have a defined center and coordinate axis orientation |
| 20:58.25 | dli | brlcad, let me play with it a little |
| 20:59.06 | brlcad | the second example, oed / region.r/comb.c/prim1.s, sounds like what you want |
| 20:59.31 | brlcad | if you're just going to translate/rotate, then the primitive doesn't really matter, pick any path down through the region |
| 20:59.50 | brlcad | er, it matters for rotations.. but not translations |
| 21:04.16 | dli | brlcad, oed path must starts from the current showing region? this is hard for me, when the design is complex, and I want to move one part |
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| 21:08.37 | dli | brlcad, I found the "Matrix Selector", easier now |
| 21:12.06 | brlcad | ahh, glad to hear it |
| 21:12.33 | brlcad | for what it's worth, oed has little to nothing to do with what is currently showing |
| 21:13.12 | brlcad | e object.r, oed / object.r/and/path/to/primitive.s |
| 21:13.52 | brlcad | which is what matrix selection does, though first showing you which object's are displayed, then a list of the paths to primtives |
| 21:14.26 | brlcad | so that it can build the "oed / object/path/to/prim" for you |
| 21:31.35 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 21:33.12 | IriX64 | most beautifull thing, I've ever seen , took all night but it's gorgeous. |
| 21:33.56 | IriX64 | 798.70 seconds. |
| 21:34.43 | IriX64 | kudos to the BRL-CAD team. |
| 21:36.18 | IriX64 | ``Erik, I'd really like to show you what my little machine did :) |
| 21:41.05 | clock_ | brlcad: have you seen the Ronja model? |
| 21:41.36 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_3.png |
| 21:41.47 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_2.png |
| 21:54.17 | brlcad | clock_: ooh, that's nice! |
| 21:55.12 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:55.56 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 21:56.08 | lg_ | hi |
| 21:57.17 | IriX64 | regards |
| 21:57.42 | lg_ | back to brlworld... |
| 21:57.54 | IriX64 | from? |
| 21:58.22 | lg_ | ;-) from offlineland |
| 21:59.48 | lg_ | reboot? wow, brlcad is not pure unix software anymore... |
| 22:00.10 | clock_ | brlcad: thanks |
| 22:00.13 | IriX64 | define "pure unix" |
| 22:00.15 | brlcad | lg_: he reboots for his own benefit |
| 22:00.22 | brlcad | nothing to do with brl-cad :) |
| 22:00.29 | clock_ | brlcad: of course I also have a video of rotating model |
| 22:00.35 | IriX64 | quite right sorry should have mentioned that. |
| 22:00.39 | clock_ | brlcad: but I think last time you were not able to play |
| 22:01.17 | lg_ | ;-) |
| 22:01.51 | IriX64 | lg_ I have yet to finish my cup. |
| 22:02.33 | lg_ | well, i just finished two beers, its a bit late here in turkey |
| 22:02.51 | brlcad | hehe |
| 22:02.58 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:03.56 | IriX64 | nei eha boh? |
| 22:04.00 | lg_ | but only modeling a cup is mentioned in the manuals, so i was on my own |
| 22:04.33 | brlcad | clock_: is there a really good installation picture that showcases ronja and matches the model closely? |
| 22:04.42 | IriX64 | ha how to model a beer, lets see you start wiith hops or wheat ;) |
| 22:06.41 | lg_ | guess it is a union of both... and as there are material properties to take care of, type will be region... r beer.r u hops + wheat |
| 22:06.42 | IriX64 | haha right. |
| 22:06.44 | *** join/#brlcad rdenatale (n=rick@166-82-49-174.quickclick.ctc.net) | |
| 22:09.34 | rdenatale | hello all, does this channel welcome modeling questions from newbies? |
| 22:10.03 | lg_ | ok, all newbies say helloooo... ;-) |
| 22:10.51 | rdenatale | I'm just starting to use brl-cad and I've got a bit of a conceptual block as to using transformations with nested combinations |
| 22:15.20 | clock_ | brlcad: no |
| 22:20.48 | rdenatale | Let's say that I'm modeling an instrument panel. I've got a combination for the basic panel itself which combines primitives to make the right shape... |
| 22:21.22 | rdenatale | ... Then I've got a subassembly consisting of a raised subpanel with a few identical switches. ... |
| 22:23.11 | rdenatale | ... the subassembly in this case is another combination with a primitive shape for the subpanel, and references to a combo for the switch which combines primitives and combos making up... |
| 22:23.28 | rdenatale | ... the switch handle, a nut, and a washer.... |
| 22:24.07 | rdenatale | ... Now I think that I want to build each of these subpart combos and primitives at their own origins, and then... |
| 22:24.53 | rdenatale | ... combine them at the higher level with a transformation matrix to position each subpart within the larger part... |
| 22:25.41 | rdenatale | ... but I'm not sure what's the best way to do this with mged, since it only seems to provide first-class support for positining primitive parts and not combos... |
| 22:25.47 | rdenatale | ... Am I missing something? |
| 22:34.58 | IriX64 | erf... again, think back when I first came here ;) |
| 22:35.36 | brlcad | heh "no" .. funny clock |
| 22:35.56 | brlcad | rdenatale: yes, questions always welcome.. response depends on audience and time of day ;) |
| 22:36.52 | rdenatale | thanks brlcad. |
| 22:37.25 | brlcad | rdenatale: you can do what you suggest, applying arbitrary transformation matrices anywhere in the hierarchy |
| 22:37.50 | IriX64 | btw brlcad: if I hit clear and display in the geometry editor, doesn't clear the frame buffer. |
| 22:38.39 | brlcad | to do this via the gui, you usually will display the geometry, then select Matrix Edit on the Edit menu .. select the assembly/combination/non-primitive object that you wish to apply a matrix over, then a path to a reference coordinate system |
| 22:38.51 | brlcad | IriX64: that's intentional |
| 22:38.56 | IriX64 | ty |
| 22:39.02 | brlcad | framebuffer has it's own concept of clearing |
| 22:39.26 | IriX64 | true, raytrace control panel allows for it so no biggie. |
| 22:39.26 | brlcad | though it wouldn't be an unreasonable feature request to combine them in the geometry editor |
| 22:39.38 | IriX64 | your choice. |
| 22:39.47 | brlcad | actually it's yours ;) |
| 22:39.53 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:40.49 | brlcad | if it's something you'd like to see added, or for any feature request really .. it helps to make the request at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640805 |
| 22:40.57 | brlcad | else it get forgotten between releases |
| 22:41.17 | IriX64 | ty i'll visit and add to favorites. |
| 22:41.31 | rdenatale | brlcad: I don't see Matrix Edit on the edit menu (I'm using 7.8.3). I only see matrix selection and that only lets me select primitives. |
| 22:41.32 | brlcad | rdenatale: the command line way to do what you suggest is the oed command, which has tricky semantics to get used to at first, but will eventually make sense ;) |
| 22:43.05 | brlcad | rdenatale: sorry .. my impreciseness |
| 22:43.08 | rdenatale | brlcad: yeah I saw oedit, but I can't figure out what path_lhs and path_rhs are |
| 22:43.37 | brlcad | it is Matrix Selection -- the first primitive selection dialog is your anchor coordinate axis (which mostly only matters for rotations) |
| 22:43.59 | brlcad | select any one of those that include your combination/region |
| 22:44.27 | brlcad | you'll then get another dialog where you can select where to place the matrix along that path |
| 22:45.32 | brlcad | rdenatale: say you have a 'panel' assembly that has a 'button.r' and 'switch.r', each containing a 'cyl.s' primitive |
| 22:45.55 | brlcad | say you want to translate the switch.r .. |
| 22:46.42 | brlcad | you'd "e panel" or "e switch.r" or use the geometry browser and select one of those two .. say for simplicity you "e panel" |
| 22:48.03 | rdenatale | brlcad: do I need these to be regions? The problem is that my end product is going to be an stl file (for stereolithograpy) ... |
| 22:48.08 | brlcad | to apply the transformation via the gui, you select the matrix selection menu option, then select any one of the lines that has switch.r in it .. the primitive only matters as a coordinate axis reference point .. so say you select /panel/switch.r/cyl.c |
| 22:48.32 | rdenatale | ... and as I understand the conversion to stl, it makes each region into a separate part. |
| 22:49.03 | brlcad | rdenatale: ideally, yes -- at some point in the modeling process, regions/parts should be created, and groups/assemblies should be built up from those regions |
| 22:49.16 | brlcad | if you define no regions, there will be one created for you |
| 22:50.06 | brlcad | which for something like the converter, would mean the whole object just ends up as one object .. and stl files can only have one object per file anyways ;) |
| 22:51.26 | brlcad | to complete the example, after selecting /panel/switch.r/cyl.c .. you'd then select switch.r to apply a transformation to the switch.r being used in panel |
| 22:51.44 | brlcad | that corresponds to the oed command of: oed /panel switch.r/cyl.c |
| 22:52.26 | brlcad | if you wanted to just translate some object .. you'd do something like "e switch.r" and "oed / switch.r/cyl.s |
| 22:53.01 | rdenatale | brlcad: so does path_rhs have to start with either a region or a primitive part? ... |
| 22:53.45 | brlcad | it starts with the name of the thing you want to translate .. some combination/region/assembly/part/group object |
| 22:54.07 | brlcad | but it must include the path all the way down to some primitive so it has a coordinate axis to work with |
| 22:54.32 | rdenatale | I've got a tree like panel.c/switch.c/... and if I enter oed panel.c switch.c it says something like "Error: unable to find matching solid part" |
| 22:54.47 | brlcad | that is understandably confusing.. long been a consideration to make more transparent, but there are legacy support issues for the expert modelers |
| 22:55.34 | brlcad | right, that's an error.. it will be something like oed /panel.c switch.c/some/path/to/a/primitive |
| 22:56.27 | rdenatale | brlcad: okay, do I understand this right if I do oed panel.c switch.c/someprimitive_in_switch.c it will still work on the matrix which transforms switch.c relative to panel.c ??? |
| 22:57.57 | brlcad | if I understand you right myself, yes ;) |
| 22:58.06 | brlcad | that will only transform the switch.c being used in panel.c |
| 22:58.54 | brlcad | if you wanted to move all switch.c's, you'd oed / switch.c/someprimitive_in_switch.s (.c suffix is for csg combinations, .s is for solids aka primitives) |
| 22:59.19 | brlcad | the slash on the LHS is of course significant |
| 22:59.43 | rdenatale | brlcad: indicating the root I guess |
| 22:59.50 | dli | brlcad, can I just move one .c instead of all parts? |
| 23:01.04 | brlcad | dli: yes, you can do that by either creating a named reference to the .c (which amounts to creating a group that includes just that .c along with a matrix transform) or you apply the matrix directly in the assembly where it's being used |
| 23:01.56 | dli | brlcad, thanks |
| 23:02.50 | rdenatale | brlcad: so I think I understand but I'm still having trouble. I have to go fairly deep into that switch to get to a primitive... |
| 23:05.19 | rdenatale | The shallowest primitive is in switch.c/switch_nut_and_washer.c/washer.s ... |
| 23:08.57 | rdenatale | brlcad: thanks, I think you got me started. As I said I've got another problem now, but my wife is pressing me to prepare dinner, so I'll likely come back later. |
| 23:08.59 | brlcad | rdenatale: sort of, yes indicating a root .. if you think of all paths sort of like filesystem paths where to modify a *directory* in your root (e.g. etc), you have to specify a file contained therein (e.g. /etc/passwd) .. and to |
| 23:09.21 | brlcad | if your paths are long, it might be easier to use the gui for selection |
| 23:09.27 | brlcad | good luck with dinner :) |
| 23:10.39 | brlcad | dli: oh, third option is to copy that .c since all copies are shallow when using cp |
| 23:11.59 | dli | brlcad, thanks |
| 23:13.31 | Maloeran | Hum, dinner. That reminds me I haven't eaten a thing today yet |
| 23:14.08 | brlcad | (looking for capable developers) |
| 23:14.10 | dli | brlcad, no :( I am just a n00b user |
| 23:14.23 | brlcad | hey, nothing wrong with that ;) |
| 23:14.34 | dli | brlcad, I use qcad for 2d, and brlcad for 3d |
| 23:14.44 | brlcad | sweet |
| 23:15.30 | brlcad | feel free to shovel in the feedback or make requests on the sf.net trackers .. they do get paid attention to |
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| 10:54.31 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-xvid.avi http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi ~ Such a crappy encoding quality, I really need to find some middle ground between these 16mb files and the 2.4gb raw loseless output |
| 10:54.49 | Maloeran | Tips, anyone? :) |
| 11:11.41 | clock_ | What is rayforce? |
| 12:05.19 | brlcad | Maloeran: yeah, I like the video .. the scene and traversal around/through the ship, but the quality is absolute crap |
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| 13:17.24 | clock_ | brlcad: what is Rayforce? |
| 13:50.06 | brlcad | clock_: it's a new high-performance triangle ray-tracer being developed by Maloeran |
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| 15:48.11 | Maloeran | brlcad, do you know how to encode videos in a higher quality? |
| 15:49.02 | Maloeran | I'm using, pass 1 & 2 : mencoder video00.raw -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo fps=20:w=1024:h=768:format=rgb24:size=2359296 -ovc xvid -xvidencopts bitrate=2600000:pass=1:vhq=4:bvhq=1:min_iquant=1:min_pquant=1:min_bquant=1:max_bframes=1 -nosound -noskip -mc 0 -vf harddup -o video00-xvid.avi |
| 15:49.19 | Maloeran | What codec or settings can I possibly use to get some decent quality? |
| 15:56.16 | archivist | divx is supposed to be ok (also an open source version somewhere) |
| 15:57.49 | Elperion | also try to use ffmpeg |
| 15:57.55 | Elperion | its codecs are really nice |
| 16:00.06 | Maloeran | I tried xvid, divx, msmpeg4-v2... |
| 16:01.44 | archivist | most video formats are not assuming nice cad pictures though |
| 16:03.04 | burton | Maloeran: do you need to encode colour pictures or only b/w? |
| 16:03.25 | Maloeran | Anything at this point, any way to get some decent quality |
| 16:03.34 | Maloeran | Although color would really be prefered |
| 16:03.36 | burton | For me DivX works the best |
| 16:03.53 | burton | Maloeran: you can download my videos at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:04.19 | burton | Maloeran: for encoding color I use the Luminaplex algorithm 8-) |
| 16:05.36 | Maloeran | Okay, I want that kind of quality! :) What do you use for divx encoding? |
| 16:05.55 | archivist | heh why are you using burton (I live near Burton on trent) |
| 16:06.24 | burton | transcode -x yuv4mpeg -y xvid -i $*.mpeg4_asp.y4m -p 3d/loop_7.2.wav -o $@ |
| 16:07.12 | burton | And here is the Luminaplex encoder http://ronja.twibright.com/hyperluma.php |
| 16:07.16 | Maloeran | Hum, my input is raw pixel data though, do you have a similar solution for mencoder? |
| 16:07.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: Wrap vector in extern c++, fix multiply-defined symbol errors on vequals function |
| 16:08.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Do not include vector.h in brep.h, since it generates multiply defined symbols across libraries (i.e. librt/libwdb) |
| 16:08.55 | burton | Maloeran: no but why do you need mencoder? |
| 16:09.07 | burton | Maloeran: if you don't require mencoder then download the encoding pipeline from Ronja |
| 16:09.40 | burton | what is actually mencoder, at all? |
| 16:11.16 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: remove optimization flags. probably need to move the sse flags somewhere else too. |
| 16:11.21 | Maloeran | It's the encoder for mplayer, the Linux media player |
| 16:11.32 | Maloeran | Whatever software I use, I must be able to feed it raw pixels |
| 16:11.39 | burton | Maloeran: I am using raw pixels |
| 16:11.44 | Maloeran | Great, okay |
| 16:11.50 | burton | The pipeline takes *.g on one side and outputs divx avi on the other |
| 16:12.04 | burton | raw RGB data falling from rt |
| 16:12.29 | burton | Maloeran: http://ronja.twibright.com/makefiles/Makefile.3d |
| 16:12.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (brep_test.cpp g_brep.cpp): explicitly include vector at compilation unit. |
| 16:13.18 | burton | Maloeran: http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/render_animation |
| 16:14.46 | Maloeran | Thanks burton, I'll try this transcode |
| 16:15.02 | burton | Maloeran: you're welcome |
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| 16:41.17 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: temporarily define replacements for missing(?) builtins |
| 16:47.59 | Maloeran | Right, this works so much better. Files of 120mb instead of 16mb too |
| 16:55.51 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi if anyone is interested |
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| 17:11.17 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h): fix inlining of << operator. should alleviate the problems with multiply-defined symbols seen earlier. |
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| 17:21.54 | archivist | neato |
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| 18:36.06 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: include unistd.h for size_t definition (fixes linux/amd64 build) |
| 18:46.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: switch to SSE intrinsics (more portable than builtins) |
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| 19:04.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): begin fleshing out arbitrary length vector class. class definition and stub functions. |
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| 21:55.02 | ``Erik | Maloeran: I'm in your computarz, hax0ring your c0dez |
| 22:12.29 | louipc | 133t |
| 22:13.13 | louipc | oh I did it wrong: 1337 |
| 22:14.24 | brlcad | s\/\/337 |
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| 23:19.11 | IriX64 | why does opengl functionality report yes on 7.6.2 but not 7.8.4? |
| 23:20.14 | IriX64 | same configure line. |
| 23:23.48 | brlcad | different detections, the configure tests change on every version |
| 23:24.04 | brlcad | default to on-by-default and off-by-default to for some options |
| 23:24.25 | IriX64 | erf so if i can find it in configure, should be able to fix it? |
| 23:25.06 | brlcad | why on earth are you using 7.6.2? |
| 23:25.20 | IriX64 | to see aboutr this opengl thing. |
| 23:25.38 | brlcad | then ignore the configure option, it's not going to show you anything :) |
| 23:25.46 | IriX64 | heh ty. |
| 23:26.02 | brlcad | that just enables/disables the opengl framebuffer, which from your perspective is no different from what you're already using |
| 23:26.12 | brlcad | it doesn't provide any new features/behavior |
| 23:26.12 | IriX64 | ill set it in config.h. :) |
| 23:26.27 | brlcad | go for it, just don't complain about things not compiling |
| 23:26.35 | IriX64 | heh sure. |
| 23:26.38 | brlcad | you'd have to do more than that to fully enable it |
| 23:26.52 | IriX64 | ill look around. |
| 23:27.05 | brlcad | seriously, though -- it's just whether it uses opengl to draw a pixel or X11 routines to draw a pixel.. it still just draws a pixel |
| 23:27.15 | brlcad | it's not going to give you a shaded display |
| 23:27.35 | IriX64 | but it is available you should be able to use it. |
| 23:28.40 | brlcad | it is a configuration option is all -- there's also an option to enable the pro-engineer plugin, but that don't mean you can use it |
| 23:29.09 | brlcad | if you really want to know why it's disabled, look in config.log and see why the opengl tests failed |
| 23:29.10 | IriX64 | ty that explains it. |
| 00:22.18 | Maloeran | Please cvs commit when done hax0ring the c0dez, Erik :) |
| 00:43.52 | deltazap | alright, i think it's about time that i came out of idling and introduced myself you you all :P |
| 00:45.11 | brlcad | howdy deltazap |
| 00:45.23 | brlcad | feel free to lurk as long as you like ;) |
| 00:45.26 | deltazap | hah |
| 00:45.54 | brlcad | kudos on the name ;) |
| 00:46.06 | brlcad | even if you do spell it wrong :D |
| 00:46.13 | deltazap | my normal name was taken |
| 00:46.57 | deltazap | :O |
| 00:47.05 | deltazap | it's phonetically correct :P |
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| 00:47.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:47.49 | deltazap | i'm an MechE at the University of South Florida |
| 00:48.06 | brlcad | ahh, fun |
| 00:48.13 | brlcad | party school, eh? :) |
| 00:48.25 | deltazap | i started working with a robotics group about 2 weeks ago and, surprise!, they don't have anything for cad software |
| 00:48.34 | deltazap | more like farm school :P |
| 00:48.44 | brlcad | ahh |
| 00:48.54 | deltazap | you must have us confused with FSU or UF |
| 00:48.57 | brlcad | i just associate all things florida with a party |
| 00:49.02 | deltazap | haha |
| 00:49.42 | brlcad | probably because i'm usually in miami or panama city or eglin .. good stuff |
| 00:50.14 | deltazap | i'm originally from the melbourne area, just south of Cape Canaveral |
| 00:50.51 | deltazap | the panhandle isn't as nice as central florida from what i hear |
| 00:51.30 | brlcad | yeah, it's not |
| 00:52.15 | deltazap | so, i was on a quest for (useable) cad software for the mac when i came across brl cad |
| 00:52.51 | brlcad | well you should be forewarned that depending on your (pre)conceptions of CAD, this may or may not be what you're looking for |
| 00:53.32 | deltazap | yeah, i've inched into it a bit, backed off, looked at it a bit more |
| 00:53.40 | brlcad | we're by far the best/only open source solid modeling CAD software in production use, decades of development invested, but we don't do it all by a long shot |
| 00:54.14 | brlcad | we're specifically short on capable developers if you know of any ;) |
| 00:54.15 | deltazap | it's interesting how brl cad approaches the problem |
| 00:54.56 | brlcad | I presume you've read the Overview and the Industry Diagram, perhaps the Intro to MGED as well? |
| 00:55.14 | deltazap | heh, don't get to stick my head outside of our engineering labs long enough to talk to many people |
| 00:55.17 | deltazap | yeah, i have |
| 00:57.22 | brlcad | the industry diagram in particular should give a sense for how we currently fit into the big picture -- e.g. AutoCAD is CADD software and our overlap with them is rather limited, similarly BRL-CAD has limited CAM facilities other than basic modeling, representation, and conversion support |
| 00:58.34 | brlcad | but if solid modeling is your need, performing analyses, computing metrics like weight and volumes, or programmatic purposes, geometry engine representations, data manipulations, CSG implicity geometry .. then you're golden ;) |
| 00:59.03 | brlcad | what are you looking to do? |
| 01:01.11 | deltazap | right now, just modeling so that i can show people my designs |
| 01:01.47 | deltazap | something just to record designs since the lab has nothing at all |
| 01:01.56 | brlcad | got it |
| 01:02.08 | brlcad | for that, the mged tutorials are going to be essential |
| 01:02.45 | brlcad | mged has a lot of good aspects like a powerful command line, but user-friendly it is not, nor is it a discoverable interface |
| 01:03.35 | brlcad | a known limitation that is being worked on, but a limitation regardless that requires lots of experience and expert knowledge to utilize effectively |
| 01:04.28 | brlcad | once you do master it, our best modelers can generally be just as proficient at most tasks as they are in other CAD systems, even faster at doing some things, but it takes a while to get to that point |
| 01:05.59 | brlcad | but once you do, things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png do become possible |
| 01:07.07 | deltazap | holy smokes! |
| 01:13.01 | deltazap | i'm used to command line interfaces |
| 01:13.33 | deltazap | unlike most mech e's, i have quite a bit of computer experience :P |
| 01:14.58 | Maloeran | Very nice brlcad, how come I don't have access to these models ;) |
| 01:15.13 | brlcad | Maloeran: :) |
| 01:15.40 | brlcad | Maloeran: you have access to some of those, and some considerably better |
| 01:16.53 | Maloeran | I do? The only real engineering model I have around is truck_bots, though I didn't look very far |
| 01:17.06 | brlcad | you just don't know who to ask, or what exactly to ask for .. |
| 01:17.24 | brlcad | none of the best models are public releasable |
| 01:17.44 | brlcad | even that model isn't, but a picture of it is ;) |
| 01:19.33 | ``Erik | mal: I commited as I was doing it. that's the way to do it |
| 01:20.39 | ``Erik | *look* oh yeah, the model brlcad pasted ain't public release, that the image is public release has caused issues recently |
| 01:21.23 | ``Erik | mal: I fixed the log2 check issue and made the rays per second a little more readable... |
| 01:21.24 | Maloeran | Yes, one could perhaps guess where the fuel tanks are, and the ammo |
| 01:21.45 | Maloeran | I didn't receive email notification about these changes, strange |
| 01:22.05 | ``Erik | heh, one could look at public release photographs of the vehicle and figure that out... but some people are stupid |
| 01:22.57 | ``Erik | I got loads of python errors when I commited |
| 01:23.07 | ``Erik | which I assume is the mail agent |
| 01:23.15 | Maloeran | cool. |
| 01:23.53 | ``Erik | and I ran around showing the current rfdemo to anyone who might give half a flying fuck heheheh :D |
| 01:23.59 | ``Erik | that thing is just smokin', dude |
| 01:24.18 | Maloeran | Thanks :) |
| 01:24.41 | ``Erik | on the quad opteron running fbsd, a steady 30fps at 1024x768 |
| 01:25.02 | ``Erik | on the octo-opteron running linux, it bounced between 25 and 40 fps erratically, mostly staying around 35fps |
| 01:25.27 | Maloeran | With or without transparency? |
| 01:25.48 | Maloeran | I never remember what I leave as default for rfdemo when I commit, toggling a lot |
| 01:25.51 | ``Erik | without |
| 01:26.04 | ``Erik | 10fps on the 12 core itanium running linux |
| 01:26.05 | Maloeran | Ah. It's 80fps in 1024x78 on my 8 cores |
| 01:26.11 | ``Erik | 5fps on a dual core g5 running osX.4 |
| 01:26.31 | brlcad | ``Erik: fortunately, even that particular image is getting published in a book, and was recently re-approved for release via my jmum presentation |
| 01:26.31 | Maloeran | Ah well, no SSE there |
| 01:26.34 | ``Erik | <-- probably experiencing network issues, was running it remote X over 100baseT |
| 01:27.10 | brlcad | along with a slew of other nifty pictures... |
| 01:27.10 | Maloeran | Is Lee pleased enough, overall? |
| 01:27.17 | ``Erik | heh, brlcad, sab bc refused to sign off on a pub with that pic... once the pic was removed, she signed... |
| 01:27.34 | brlcad | Maloeran: he was yelling your name along with various profanities.. dunno... |
| 01:27.58 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 01:28.33 | ``Erik | when I stopped by his office at 5pm and told him to log into that machine and run it, once he got over the foibles of remote X and his fucked up workstation, he was extremely happy, it made his day |
| 01:29.29 | ``Erik | of course, his day wasn't exactly a shining beacon of awesomeness, I mean, chock full of meetings involving nontechnical people maching technical decisions that impact him, heh |
| 01:29.41 | ``Erik | which is par for the course these days :/ |
| 01:30.20 | Maloeran | :/ It still makes my day as well to hear that some people far away appreciate the software |
| 01:30.34 | ``Erik | tell ya what |
| 01:30.46 | ``Erik | it impressed me enough to run around and show lee and brlcad... |
| 01:30.46 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/demo01-ms.avi - Transparency walkthrough of the terribly heavy galleon model, 60mb, if anyone is interested |
| 01:30.48 | ``Erik | :) |
| 01:30.53 | Maloeran | :D |
| 01:31.08 | ``Erik | and brlcad was getting 40fps from the quad opteron, opposed to my 30 |
| 01:31.13 | ``Erik | better networking, I guess :/ |
| 01:31.28 | Maloeran | Or http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi for flat shading demo, if you want to have a look |
| 01:32.28 | deltazap | well, thanks guys :) |
| 01:32.38 | deltazap | i'm sure i'll have many more questions in the future |
| 01:33.03 | brlcad | Maloeran: can't you encode an mpeg2 or mpeg4 somewhere? :) |
| 01:33.25 | brlcad | and dear ghod.. that's a damn big video file :) |
| 01:33.58 | ``Erik | those're mpeg-4, brlcad |
| 01:34.06 | ``Erik | he just named 'em... "funny" |
| 01:34.22 | ``Erik | (avi is the uncompressed layout, mpeg4 is the compression algo... vid compression is weird like that) |
| 01:34.36 | ``Erik | be like if he named an mp3 blah.pcm |
| 01:34.41 | Maloeran | Yes, it's all msmpeg4-v2 so it even runs on windows out of the box |
| 01:35.07 | Maloeran | Sorry about the huge files, any loss of quality is really visible, so this is almost loseless |
| 01:35.25 | Maloeran | ( I have loseless versions too if you prefer :) ) |
| 01:35.32 | ``Erik | 2.4 gigs a pop? D: |
| 01:35.33 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:37.07 | Maloeran | Eheh, I still have that, but also x264 loseless compressed videos ; but I don't know how that runs on most players |
| 01:37.24 | deltazap | so, are most pepole in here developers for brl cad? |
| 01:37.25 | ``Erik | <-- uses vlc, it does everything |
| 01:37.32 | ``Erik | only a couple of us, delta |
| 01:38.02 | deltazap | ``Erik: and everyone else is an enthusiast? ;) |
| 01:38.20 | louipc | hobbist |
| 01:39.14 | ``Erik | brlcad and myself are brl-cad developers, maloeran is developing a piece that will be integrated into BRL-CAD in about a month |
| 01:39.17 | ``Erik | *look* others are former devs, enthusiests, interested parties, etc |
| 01:39.23 | ``Erik | and bots, can't forget the bots :) |
| 01:39.36 | deltazap | of course not :) |
| 01:39.50 | louipc | oh so that's who's publishing this channel eh |
| 01:39.51 | deltazap | they're a staple of any irc room |
| 01:40.01 | ``Erik | channel, not room |
| 01:40.04 | ``Erik | quit talking like an aoler |
| 01:40.05 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:40.08 | deltazap | hah |
| 01:40.13 | louipc | omg lol |
| 01:40.24 | deltazap | hai2u |
| 01:40.29 | ``Erik | A/S/L!!!!~??! |
| 01:40.40 | Maloeran | lololol!!1 |
| 01:41.15 | deltazap | brlcad mentioned being able to do analysis with models that you build with brl cad, what sort of analysis is (publically) available? |
| 01:41.15 | ``Erik | (heh, hai2u as in goatse/lemonparty/tubgirl grade shock image site?) |
| 01:41.57 | deltazap | ``Erik: not as much, just aoler mentality |
| 01:42.02 | ``Erik | volume/weight analysis, exposed area, ... |
| 01:42.25 | ``Erik | a disturbing amount is "publically available", but saying the extent is not :/ |
| 01:42.41 | deltazap | heh |
| 01:42.43 | louipc | ballistics |
| 01:42.46 | louipc | non? |
| 01:42.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: er, I meant an mpeg4 not using the divx encoding |
| 01:43.02 | ``Erik | <-- been kinda interested in doing things like optic analysis and mechanical stress/strain analysis as public type activities |
| 01:43.23 | deltazap | mechanical stress/strain analysis would be awesome |
| 01:43.45 | louipc | that would be neat |
| 01:43.45 | deltazap | that would be the one that i'm most interested in since that's related to my field |
| 01:43.48 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD's primary funding comes from ballistic type analysis, yes, but that actual work is done in another program... brlcad just provides the geometry information |
| 01:44.04 | louipc | deltazap: you're doing robots? that's awesome |
| 01:44.05 | deltazap | had to work with ansys today for one of my classes |
| 01:44.08 | louipc | ah ok |
| 01:44.16 | deltazap | what a pain |
| 01:44.24 | brlcad | deltazap: the other devs drop in from time to time, or live on the mailing lists |
| 01:44.31 | deltazap | interesting |
| 01:44.32 | brlcad | or just commit and cause problems when they can ;) |
| 01:44.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:44.38 | louipc | hah |
| 01:44.43 | deltazap | louipc: yes :) unmanned systems |
| 01:44.45 | ``Erik | you mean bob? :D *duck* |
| 01:44.48 | deltazap | haha |
| 01:45.00 | brlcad | i think bob tried to join the channel twice |
| 01:45.10 | brlcad | never got it to work |
| 01:45.27 | ``Erik | I mean the causing problems part... ain't his fault, though, he was working the windows port and not focused on portability |
| 01:45.28 | deltazap | our group is actually sponsored by ARL for some of our projects |
| 01:45.31 | Maloeran | Bob from Survice? |
| 01:45.38 | louipc | deltazap: well as I see it, that's what a robot is. It bugs me when they call those RC doodads robots like on Robot Wars |
| 01:45.40 | brlcad | is there any other bob? :) |
| 01:45.42 | ``Erik | mal: ja, the dude we had lunch with at the golf course |
| 01:45.50 | brlcad | bob's pretty cool guy, *real* easy going |
| 01:46.03 | deltazap | louipc: http://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm is our group's site |
| 01:46.09 | ``Erik | he used to be arl civvy, same office as john |
| 01:46.25 | brlcad | very much a least-resistance path coder though, whatever gets the job done fastest no matter how maintainable, clean, fastest running it is |
| 01:46.29 | Maloeran | I'm surprised Bob couldn't manage to come on IRC |
| 01:46.47 | brlcad | he just didn't try really hard.. and might have had firewall issues |
| 01:46.48 | Maloeran | Yes, I saw some of his Fastgen code, it isn't that bad |
| 01:47.20 | brlcad | Maloeran: heh, he wrote most of the gui code in mged .. still think that? :) |
| 01:47.30 | Maloeran | Ouch! :) |
| 01:47.32 | brlcad | that said, he also wrote archer which is worlds cleaner/improved ;) |
| 01:47.53 | brlcad | he was using tcl before it was really stabilized |
| 01:48.17 | brlcad | plus he's colorblind (so lets make him a gui coder! woot) |
| 01:48.17 | Maloeran | I think I just have a high esteem for Bob as Mark told me he also first submitted progress reports and invoices as a .txt file, as I initially did |
| 01:48.43 | brlcad | he's a very simple down to earth guy |
| 01:49.05 | brlcad | really easy going, makes awesome guitars |
| 01:49.06 | ``Erik | bob's colorblind, too? |
| 01:49.16 | louipc | deltazap: nice, I'd really like to do stuff like that |
| 01:49.18 | brlcad | yeah, ironic, no? |
| 01:49.37 | louipc | solid body guitars? |
| 01:49.41 | ``Erik | akoostics |
| 01:49.48 | deltazap | louipc: this job was just kinda dropped into my lap |
| 01:49.52 | brlcad | i almost bought one off him before he left, but then I was burning cash on other toys at the time |
| 01:49.52 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 01:50.33 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 01:50.36 | louipc | neato |
| 01:50.39 | deltazap | louipc: problem is that is a bunch of CS PhD students and noone wanted to work with the hardware when it broke. makes it hard to show off their systems :P |
| 01:50.46 | brlcad | you so wouldn't think he makes classic guitars, with his military background, potty mouth, and laid back coder attitude |
| 01:50.59 | Maloeran | He's apparently much into fishing too |
| 01:51.02 | deltazap | *its |
| 01:51.09 | louipc | deltazap: yeah definitely. software isn't everything :/ |
| 01:51.29 | brlcad | it isn't?? |
| 01:51.35 | deltazap | hah |
| 01:51.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: and guns |
| 01:51.51 | brlcad | shooting with him is fun, if you get the chance |
| 01:51.56 | deltazap | that and they don't have anyone to design and build custom hardware |
| 01:51.57 | brlcad | pretty experienced |
| 01:52.07 | brlcad | assuming you're not gunphobic or something |
| 01:52.12 | Maloeran | I think I'll pass that :), not my kind of activity |
| 01:52.35 | Maloeran | I think I'm not very fond of these particular... tools, never saw a gun though |
| 01:52.51 | Maloeran | ( They are fairly rare in Canada ) |
| 01:52.54 | brlcad | if you hung around him long enough, you probably would be enticed.. it's hard not to be ;) |
| 01:52.56 | louipc | yea |
| 01:53.34 | brlcad | not hunting, target practice shooting clay pigeons .. though bob hunts too iirc |
| 01:53.51 | louipc | I went to a flea market in georgia and I was pretty freaked out by all the weapons |
| 01:54.07 | Maloeran | I'll settle for bicycle rides with Lee instead ;) |
| 01:54.20 | brlcad | Maloeran: i'm not sure it's a "rare in Canada" as it is a "rare in and around cities" |
| 01:54.44 | brlcad | it's not like I could easily go shooting down in baltimore (at least outdoors), without getting shot at |
| 01:54.50 | ``Erik | heh, reading on laws and stuff, it's actually easier to buy a gun in canada than in the US |
| 01:55.11 | ``Erik | less wait period, less background check... but they're all hunting grade weapons, not "self defense" weapons |
| 01:55.18 | louipc | should be even easier soon too |
| 01:56.11 | brlcad | yeah, i'm referring more to the shotgun and rifle sort, not a handgun or uzi .. though those can be fun too I hear :) |
| 01:56.35 | ``Erik | of course, the biggest news item gun crimes in the us are with hunting rifles... the wv sniper, etc |
| 01:57.42 | brlcad | deltazap: hmm.. I notice that ARL is one of your groups funding sponsors.. |
| 01:57.52 | deltazap | yes :) |
| 01:58.06 | brlcad | that's probably a great lead towards securing a job ;) |
| 01:58.25 | brlcad | do you know what part of ARL? |
| 01:58.50 | brlcad | that sounds like the sort of stuff Twingy is working on now |
| 01:59.10 | deltazap | hang on, i have a card from one of the guys that came a week ago to look at everything |
| 01:59.35 | deltazap | weapons technology analysis branch |
| 02:00.58 | deltazap | when he came, i basically got a job offer. i've only been with the group for three weeks :P |
| 02:02.38 | brlcad | yeah, there are positions open all over the lab, a hard need for bodies and talent |
| 02:03.17 | Maloeran | They aren't too fond of canadians apparently, though |
| 02:04.33 | louipc | :P |
| 02:04.33 | brlcad | hmm.. that branch is probably part of WTD |
| 02:04.34 | ``Erik | does it have an office symbol? |
| 02:04.34 | brlcad | pearson and company |
| 02:04.34 | ``Erik | like AMSRD-ARL-WM-WB ? |
| 02:04.42 | deltazap | ``Erik: amsrd-arl-wm-bf |
| 02:04.47 | brlcad | eep |
| 02:04.50 | ``Erik | hah, it IS wm, bitch! |
| 02:04.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:05.17 | ``Erik | <-- in AMSRD-ARL-SL-BS |
| 02:05.24 | ``Erik | yes, you read that right. BS. |
| 02:05.26 | ``Erik | :( |
| 02:05.37 | brlcad | better that BF |
| 02:05.43 | ``Erik | best friends? |
| 02:05.43 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:05.45 | brlcad | s/that/than/ |
| 02:05.51 | deltazap | lol |
| 02:05.58 | ``Erik | that's what you meant, right, you pillowbiter? |
| 02:06.03 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 02:06.08 | brlcad | uh huh |
| 02:06.30 | louipc | ! |
| 02:06.51 | brlcad | oh yeah.. and libapr somehow got updated again |
| 02:07.07 | brlcad | but I was able to trace down the crashes to mod_security and mod_rewrite |
| 02:07.09 | ``Erik | this is the part of the day where you eat some food, have a nice relaxing adult beverage and prepare to watch southpark, buddy |
| 02:07.14 | brlcad | so I'm upgrading everything now |
| 02:07.24 | ``Erik | onyour machine in belize? |
| 02:07.28 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:08.16 | ``Erik | unfortunate that we don't have friendly boots on the ground in that region. |
| 02:08.24 | deltazap | i'm not sure what most of the acronyms mean :P |
| 02:08.27 | louipc | hah I've never heard the term 'adult beverage' before |
| 02:08.43 | brlcad | my schedule is almost exactly 6 hours off right now, 9pm feels like 3pm, which means break time .. and a second burst of energy in about two hours until about 5am |
| 02:09.29 | Maloeran | Sounds great brlcad, I thought one had to be a consultant working remotely to do that |
| 02:09.31 | ``Erik | got insane amounts of stuff done in that period of my life, too |
| 02:09.33 | brlcad | i've tried syncing back 6 hours three times now, but can't hold it for more than a day |
| 02:09.56 | brlcad | Maloeran: seniority ;) |
| 02:10.28 | ``Erik | heh, d'no if it's seniority as much as contractor insulation combined with a perception of being irreplacable :) |
| 02:10.47 | brlcad | but it's good stuff (most of the time), great toys, great code and potential for ideas if you know how to work it |
| 02:11.00 | Maloeran | Eheh. From what I see, brlcad is indeed irreplacable, no one knows the software nearly as well |
| 02:11.28 | ``Erik | I d'no, there may be a couple that do, but they're married to other projects O.o |
| 02:11.31 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:11.39 | ``Erik | (don't inflate the boys ego, mal) |
| 02:11.41 | ``Erik | :> |
| 02:11.43 | brlcad | nah, not even lee at this point |
| 02:11.53 | brlcad | and he has years on everyone |
| 02:11.59 | ``Erik | um, lee wasn't on my list |
| 02:12.02 | ``Erik | jra is, though |
| 02:12.03 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:12.05 | brlcad | interesting |
| 02:12.12 | brlcad | jra is close |
| 02:12.25 | brlcad | from the whole project perspective though, he has lots of gaps |
| 02:12.38 | brlcad | he knows more detail in the areas he worked on though, that's for sure |
| 02:12.46 | ``Erik | lee is typically grossly outdated in his knowledge base :/ |
| 02:12.56 | ``Erik | he's been doing the pointy hair routine too long |
| 02:13.06 | brlcad | depends where in the code and the topic |
| 02:14.52 | ``Erik | <-- ammended the tactical plan's verse on documentation to hopefully help in that regard |
| 02:14.53 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:14.58 | brlcad | jra is up there followed by lee then maybe bob then maybe you or chris |
| 02:15.17 | ``Erik | the two in my head were john and bob |
| 02:15.34 | brlcad | lee knows more than you give him credit for, there's a lot of scope |
| 02:15.36 | ``Erik | chris... our one competent friend in the "primary" customer software maintenance team? |
| 02:15.40 | brlcad | just lacking detail |
| 02:15.45 | ``Erik | lee has good breadth |
| 02:16.01 | brlcad | that's what i'm primarily referring to -- breadth of knowledge |
| 02:16.04 | ``Erik | but when you get into details on BRL-CAD, he vocalizes the state as of '98 or so |
| 02:16.21 | ``Erik | which is current on some parts |
| 02:16.24 | ``Erik | not on others... |
| 02:16.53 | brlcad | and no -- chris johnson |
| 02:17.07 | brlcad | you haven't met i believe |
| 02:17.12 | ``Erik | hm, sounds familiar, but I cannot place |
| 02:17.14 | brlcad | aside from in here |
| 02:17.14 | ``Erik | he, uh |
| 02:17.21 | ``Erik | I've talked to him here, yes, cjohnson |
| 02:17.38 | ``Erik | a couple times... enough for me to go "ah ha, NOT a newbie linux weenie" |
| 02:17.54 | brlcad | pjt actually has a fair bit of breadth too, but undoubtedly all forgotten or entirely obsolete at this point |
| 02:18.21 | ``Erik | I suspect any technical fu pjt had 3 years ago has gone the way of the crapper |
| 02:18.35 | ``Erik | he keeps a bookcase of cs books as an opaque shrine. :( |
| 02:19.08 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 02:19.11 | ``Erik | last time I was in his new office, he seemed genuinely upset about that fact |
| 02:19.21 | ``Erik | but open about it |
| 02:19.24 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 02:21.30 | brlcad | lee curiously knows very little about the build system.. was similar in the cake days too |
| 02:21.53 | ``Erik | *shrug* I wouldn't expect him to, it changed in the last 5 years |
| 02:21.55 | Maloeran | I wouldn't blame it for that, I'm terribly uninspired to learn this stuff too |
| 02:22.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:22.05 | Maloeran | blame him* |
| 02:22.07 | ``Erik | did you check out rtcmp, mal? |
| 02:22.22 | Maloeran | Ah no, I didn't |
| 02:22.24 | deltazap | how hard is it to set up the rendering system for multiple machines? |
| 02:22.40 | ``Erik | the automake usage there is much different than BRL-CAD |
| 02:23.07 | ``Erik | given how you lay out the directories and locations of the files, you might like how I did rtcmp a lot more than how rayfarce currently is |
| 02:23.28 | brlcad | how was that? non-recursive? |
| 02:23.40 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:23.43 | ``Erik | yeah, toplevel build |
| 02:23.53 | ``Erik | reduced presense |
| 02:24.19 | ``Erik | minimalistic, even :) while retaining solid portability |
| 02:24.32 | ``Erik | (though most of it is by leveraging BRL-CAD's portability...) |
| 02:25.10 | brlcad | i'm curious how fast the compile would be without recursive on brl-cad, but hell if I am interested in 1) breaking something that works, 2) editing 535 files, and 3) giving the gnu folks satisfaction on their rediculous ranting |
| 02:25.13 | ``Erik | bear in mind, the code is crude as it's early dev |
| 02:25.59 | ``Erik | I have 3 subdirs total, with the subdirs being linked into the toplevel binary... it was a no-brainer to go with non-recursive |
| 02:26.26 | ``Erik | now PARTS of BRL-CAD might benefit from non-recursive... but most of it is best recursive |
| 02:26.39 | ``Erik | like ADRT might benefit, since it often has 2 or 3 .c files in a subdir |
| 02:27.13 | ``Erik | and the data dirs might |
| 02:28.39 | brlcad | you can still have the makefiles deep with recursive |
| 02:28.57 | brlcad | and just have #include's on the top level |
| 02:37.14 | ``Erik | -m 'only linux is broken' :D |
| 02:38.25 | Maloeran | Is their commit email notification thing broken? |
| 02:38.48 | ``Erik | eys |
| 02:38.49 | ``Erik | yes |
| 02:38.57 | ``Erik | I got an error from this mac, as well |
| 02:39.09 | ``Erik | and its' ruby, not python... I was in err earlier |
| 02:39.24 | ``Erik | I emailed myself the error, I'll mail, uh, someone... tomorrow... |
| 02:39.44 | Maloeran | I haven't received any cvs commit notification since the one at 5h42 this morning |
| 02:42.11 | ``Erik | perhaps there's a muckup with my account, or with using a mac to commit *shrug* |
| 02:42.17 | Maloeran | What exactly did you change? I'm not even sure it's commiting |
| 02:42.24 | ``Erik | it committed |
| 02:42.46 | ``Erik | RF/config.h |
| 02:43.02 | Maloeran | Right, okay |
| 02:43.18 | ``Erik | I put #ifdef __linux__ around RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK |
| 02:44.08 | Maloeran | The problem is glibc specific. Isn't glibc used on other platforms too? |
| 02:44.15 | ``Erik | not to my knowledge |
| 02:44.48 | ``Erik | none of the BSD family and no UNIX uses glibc |
| 02:44.55 | ``Erik | um, HURD/HIRD might |
| 02:44.56 | ``Erik | but, uh |
| 02:44.58 | ``Erik | no one uses that |
| 02:44.59 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:45.40 | Maloeran | I think you can run some patched glibc on various BSD |
| 02:45.57 | ``Erik | well, yeah, there're ports to install a tweaked glibc |
| 02:46.00 | ``Erik | but its' not natural |
| 02:46.23 | ``Erik | <-- needs to install dragonfly and netbsd to get total coverage :/ |
| 02:46.58 | Maloeran | I probably broke again whatever platforms doesn't have stdint.h, but that's a standard C99 header, and I require C99 to compile |
| 02:48.03 | ``Erik | stdint showed up in the bsd family a long time ago |
| 02:48.39 | Maloeran | You once added some switch to check for the existence of stdint.h, so I assume it wasn't present on some of your test platforms |
| 02:48.47 | ``Erik | ands ince you're c99, you exclude pretty much all the real UNIX platforms |
| 02:49.53 | ``Erik | heh, too bad I don't have aix and hpux boxen |
| 02:51.04 | Maloeran | The SOW said the code is to be written in C99, I'm not too concerned if some archaic Unix platforms still live in 1989. Is it really of any importance to you guys? |
| 02:51.30 | ``Erik | so when're you cutting that mega-box up for different platforms, mal? |
| 02:51.31 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:51.48 | ``Erik | unfortunately, most of our "primary use" machines ARE that archaic. |
| 02:51.59 | Maloeran | Ouch, I see |
| 02:52.09 | ``Erik | running, y'know, irix 6.5 and one running solaris 8 |
| 02:52.26 | ``Erik | when I get my solaris 10 cd's, I might 'donate' an upgrade |
| 02:52.41 | ``Erik | to both the e420 and an x86 |
| 02:53.01 | ``Erik | I mostly care about fbsd, obsd and osX these days |
| 02:53.07 | ``Erik | a tiny little bit about windows and linux |
| 02:53.23 | ``Erik | irix and solaris are nice, but mostly historical.... |
| 02:53.51 | ``Erik | but that's my personal profile, it doesnt' align with the common user |
| 02:53.51 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:54.33 | ``Erik | <-- will keep doing what he can to keep you portable to the platforms that matter... |
| 02:54.44 | ``Erik | performance wise, though, a broad install base may be a big eye opener |
| 02:54.47 | Maloeran | I don't see how you can give more importance to BSD than Linux for some real software |
| 02:55.30 | ``Erik | hm, linux is a limelight baby, bsd is a workhorse in teh shadows |
| 02:55.35 | Maloeran | I know you are personally more fond of BSD, but I don't think that reflects what should be the real priorities... |
| 02:55.43 | ``Erik | yahoo, for example... is mostly a fbsd cluster. |
| 02:55.56 | ``Erik | yahoo stores used to be lisp, heh |
| 02:55.59 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:56.07 | Maloeran | Some clusters actually run fbsd? I thought it was all Linux, from what I saw |
| 02:56.22 | ``Erik | my baddest "real" machine for my customers is a fbsd cluster |
| 02:56.24 | ``Erik | uh |
| 02:56.30 | ``Erik | linux has marketting, dude |
| 02:56.32 | ``Erik | fbsd don't |
| 02:56.56 | ``Erik | in setting up clusters, linux was totally non-functional after a week of effort |
| 02:57.06 | ``Erik | fbsd is so mature and just THERE, I have it all done in 2 hours |
| 02:57.16 | ``Erik | and I'm not totally linux stupid, last I checked :) |
| 02:57.47 | Maloeran | :) Surprising... |
| 02:57.54 | ``Erik | from talking to both fbsd and linux people, linux is a bunch of 'kids' who are very vocal... lots of /. stuff |
| 02:58.07 | ``Erik | fbsd users tend to be old professional types who "mkae it work" without fuss |
| 02:58.14 | ``Erik | cdrom.com back in teh day was a fbsd machine |
| 02:58.39 | brlcad | before they sold out |
| 02:58.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:58.48 | ``Erik | TEH DAY!!! |
| 02:59.05 | Maloeran | Well, the MSRC clusters of you guys at the ARL all run Linux |
| 02:59.06 | justin__ | ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/95 |
| 02:59.20 | Maloeran | Which I think would be an important point to care about Linux a bit |
| 02:59.25 | ``Erik | no, most MSRC clusters are not linux, a couple BIGGIES are linux |
| 02:59.49 | ``Erik | I think aix is better represented |
| 03:00.25 | ``Erik | but bear in mind, MSRC is not about ultimate performance or maintainability, there's a lot of beaurocracy.... a lot of weight is put towards sanctioned finger pointing |
| 03:00.33 | ``Erik | which is what sgi/altix and redhat enterprise buy you |
| 03:01.12 | ``Erik | they aint' runnin' gentoo, dude |
| 03:02.19 | Maloeran | Eh well, all right then. I'll be one of these vocal Linux kids :) |
| 03:02.46 | ``Erik | if you had serious experience in a non-linux *nix, I think you'd change your tune |
| 03:02.47 | ``Erik | I did |
| 03:03.04 | ``Erik | twingy did once he was seriously exposed to fbsd |
| 03:03.35 | ``Erik | linux is a dandy little toy os, a good stepping stone... :D |
| 03:03.36 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 03:05.59 | Maloeran | Tsk :), there's so little potential and theorical gain from learning fbsd, and I'll need years to be on par with my Linux |
| 03:16.07 | Twingy | you would think that with glDisable (GL_DEPTH_TEST); that each successive call to drawing an object would draw on top of anything previously existing |
| 03:16.41 | ``Erik | *blink* one would think |
| 03:17.26 | Twingy | given I am seeing random behavior in fbsd and winderz (both are different) I don't know what to believe |
| 03:17.37 | Twingy | both are wrong |
| 03:23.43 | Twingy | weird, now it works |
| 03:24.06 | Twingy | display lists + depth buffer toggles do bad things |
| 03:40.38 | louipc | gentoo is a maintenance nightmare if you ask me |
| 03:41.24 | louipc | yeah I have to try fbsd |
| 04:00.33 | Maloeran | I found Gentoo is fine as long as you install and update what you need, and never ever try emerge world |
| 04:03.06 | louipc | Archlinux is kind of like fbsd in that respect |
| 04:09.00 | Twingy | numaPICOS |
| 04:09.54 | Maloeran | Erik, give to fbsd better NUMA support than Linux and its libNUMA, and I'll move over :) |
| 04:44.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050306.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:03.15 | deltazap | Maloeran: if you do emerge world, make sure you have a nice distcc system set up :P |
| 05:04.15 | brlcad | or just really nice hardware ;) |
| 05:06.48 | deltazap | if distcc worked well with darwinports on osx, then i'd be really happy using my powermac to help compile things |
| 05:08.34 | louipc | deltazap: Maloeran has a pretty sweet machine I don't think he needs to worry about that |
| 05:09.14 | brlcad | ``Erik: got all the web services upgraded now |
| 05:13.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: since I actually looked at gdb instead of just doing the fix, there are multiple crash points or at least places where mod_security, mod_rewrite, and libphp could independently (i.e. with the other two disabled) crash httpd due to various issues |
| 05:13.57 | brlcad | one crashed inside a log attempt, another while lookup up httpd's running username, another while talking back through apr |
| 05:15.53 | brlcad | the fix is pretty simple, have to get php and apache to both (forcibly) have -pthread added to the CFLAGS -- for php this amounts to building, cd into work, reconfigure with CFLAGS=-pthread, cd out, and reinstall .. for apache2, it's a matter of editing the ports Makefile and appending -pthread to the CFLAGS |
| 05:16.05 | brlcad | once that was done, everything was a happy donkey |
| 07:02.05 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-93-137.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:05.45 | Maloeran | Woah... This new release of Firefox guesses what I'm typing in its integrated google search before I'm done |
| 08:06.11 | Maloeran | I type the first two words of a book title, and it fills up the rest o.O |
| 08:11.38 | Maloeran | Erik, SURVICE's email troubles don't seem limited to cvs commits. Sending an email to Mark failed with "TCP active open: Failed connect() Error: Connection refused" for the last 14 hours |
| 08:17.44 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 10:19.23 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 13:37.13 | ``Erik | stupid intarweb |
| 13:37.37 | ``Erik | brlcad: might be worth tweaking /etc/make.conf to always include -pthread in the CFLAGS |
| 14:16.44 | Maloeran | Erik, any objection to the use of non-public SDL function calls? The only way to get efficient N buffering |
| 14:17.13 | Maloeran | Looking at the source, it should be portable, though perhaps could break with future SDL versions |
| 14:24.26 | Maloeran | Darn, the functions required are declared static, no symbols |
| 14:26.28 | ``Erik | the part that matters is the raytrace engine, not the demo app... right? |
| 14:27.24 | Maloeran | And you guys are going to use the raytracing engine to shoot one ray at a time without using 10% of the engine's features *sigh* |
| 14:29.20 | ``Erik | at first |
| 14:29.23 | ``Erik | for one of the apps |
| 14:29.27 | ``Erik | the "selling" app |
| 14:29.38 | ``Erik | but things like CCI will not be designed so r-tarded |
| 14:31.09 | ``Erik | stringing it into isst will be much more optimal than "the selling app" :/ |
| 14:31.28 | Maloeran | Ah, what are CCI/ISST? |
| 14:31.58 | Maloeran | The video recording performs N buffering so it scales well with threads and distributed processing, but the SDL visualization clearly doesn't ( block and wait every frame ) |
| 14:32.18 | ``Erik | other projects... :) ISST is interactive, CCI is more of a very specialized large scale global illumination concept (not started yet) |
| 14:32.39 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 14:33.06 | ``Erik | isst is in the BRL-CAD cvs repo as src/adrt/isst |
| 14:33.27 | Maloeran | Further development of Rayforce is likely to become closed-source though, as the ARL stops support and Survice wants to lead |
| 14:34.47 | Maloeran | which I think is rather unfortunate, ah well... |
| 14:35.21 | ``Erik | *shrug* the core of it will go lgpl, right? |
| 14:35.39 | ``Erik | as long as whatever builds on it adheres to the license, who cares? |
| 14:36.32 | Maloeran | As copyright holder, I can pick any license for future developments, and Survice clearly prefers closed source |
| 14:37.42 | Maloeran | Hum, and they advocate patents too |
| 14:40.27 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I just thought you guys should know that future improvements ( such as the long list of postponed optimisations ) will most likely not be LGPL |
| 14:40.54 | Maloeran | Unless Wendy changes her mind within a month somehow :) |
| 15:27.38 | Maloeran | Getting a pointer within the current_video struct through SDL_GetVideoInfo(), then from that pointer scanning memory around for the ->shadow surface pointer, and then modifying that pointer, works. It's also the ugliest hack I have done in a while :), I don't think I'm going to keep that |
| 16:06.57 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@84.135.73.152) | |
| 16:14.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): more progress on dvec class: constructors, equality and addition. |
| 16:15.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: add simple test for dvec<8> correctness |
| 16:23.41 | *** join/#brlcad cad55 (n=440187be@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 17:45.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): "finish" implementing dvec. added operator for debugging. |
| 17:47.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: finish testing methods of dvec<>. add simple performance test for dvec<>. |
| 17:57.59 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050306.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:05.54 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874998.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 18:40.53 | ``Erik | mal: we'll throw so much horky geometry at it that sdl blit speeds will be irrelevant :) |
| 18:43.10 | Maloeran | Good good :), you'll have to be far in the millions |
| 18:45.39 | Maloeran | Heard anything abou SURVICE's dead email daemon? Where's the cron job to start it back? |
| 18:45.43 | Maloeran | about* |
| 18:47.19 | Maloeran | Don't try sending them emails, it bounces back |
| 19:32.45 | ``Erik | <-- knows nothing of their internal operations. |
| 19:35.48 | Maloeran | Distributed processing with frame buffering sure saturates my 100mbit fast, I need a better router or switch. It works nicely though |
| 19:36.35 | Maloeran | Any thoughts on a fast and loseless compression library that would be appropriate for these chunks of pixels? |
| 19:36.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: wdb_smooth_bot doesn't seem to have a help entry, which causes all hlep to fail. commenting it out for now... |
| 19:36.50 | ``Erik | loseless? hrm, no :/ |
| 19:39.45 | Maloeran | A whole lot of papers on google on fast lossless image compression |
| 19:40.04 | ``Erik | hmmmm |
| 19:40.15 | ``Erik | lets see, the base model I want to try is 7.2 million triangles |
| 19:40.34 | ``Erik | if that's not enough, I can put a hundred or a thousand of them in a scene |
| 19:42.42 | Maloeran | Neat, should be a bit slower than the 2 million triangles galleon, depends on space complexity |
| 19:43.27 | ``Erik | very compact and dense |
| 19:43.59 | ``Erik | with some larger 'shelling' triangles on the outside, I believe |
| 19:44.21 | ``Erik | 7214956 triangles |
| 19:44.44 | Maloeran | *nods* The galleon is a difficult for space partitionning techniques with these ropes and sails everywhere |
| 20:47.14 | IriX64 | brlcad: has this occurred anywhere else? syntax error in config using automake 1.9.6? starting from autogen, i isolated it down to aclocal, dropped back to 1.8.5 and all is well. |
| 20:49.18 | IriX64 | btw this one installs right ;) |
| 20:50.44 | IriX64 | btw i'm quite willing to test any issues you're having if you need a test bed. |
| 20:57.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/377531 |
| 20:57.19 | IriX64 | that setup succeds. |
| 21:23.34 | IriX64 | hey where's louipc? |
| 21:34.29 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.69) | |
| 21:42.21 | ``Erik | mal, how do I convert something to rtgg? |
| 21:43.19 | Maloeran | Err... Right, give me a moment on that one |
| 21:43.35 | Maloeran | I converted the old rtml files but forgot to write a g->rtgg |
| 21:43.56 | ``Erik | :) g-tri.c doens't do anything |
| 21:44.12 | Maloeran | That's Lee's example I think |
| 21:44.20 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:44.24 | Maloeran | Hum... Perhaps I even forgot to commit the rtml converter |
| 21:44.32 | ``Erik | I don't think you ever committed anything like that |
| 22:13.28 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707015.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:21.03 | *** join/#brlcad test34- (n=test34@unaffiliated/test34) | |
| 22:21.11 | *** part/#brlcad test34- (n=test34@unaffiliated/test34) | |
| 22:34.25 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: how about fixing the problem instead, should be wdb_bot_smooth |
| 22:43.53 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: s/srtdup/strdup/ typo |
| 22:59.17 | louipc | :O I thought archer wasn't announced. It's mentioned in wikipedia hah |
| 23:14.01 | ``Erik | hehehe, my quick greps didn't show a plausible candidate, guess I just grepped wrong :) |
| 23:17.05 | brlcad | that command used to be called smooth_bot |
| 23:17.23 | brlcad | then was later renamed to bot_smooth to be more consistent with the other bot_* commands |
| 23:18.07 | ``Erik | I vagually remember hearing that before |
| 23:18.29 | brlcad | mike actually fixed the few remaining, but apparently missed the help one |
| 23:18.30 | ``Erik | <-- was trying to learn facetize, 'help' was puking in mged, pulled a bob to make it work *shrug* :) |
| 23:18.42 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:18.45 | brlcad | shame on you :) |
| 23:18.59 | ``Erik | heh, I only know a tiny fraction of the stuff in the package |
| 23:19.00 | brlcad | pulling a bob is never a good thing :) |
| 23:19.11 | ``Erik | and broad greps weren't helping me... |
| 23:19.33 | ``Erik | grep isn't exactly a context free language |
| 23:19.36 | brlcad | that whole triple table foo for help is a bit funky in itself |
| 23:20.02 | ``Erik | <-- grepped a couple choice subsymbols through the whole tree before commenting it out... and just commented it, didn't delete it... |
| 23:20.29 | ``Erik | I knew I was punting, so I left breadcrumbs :) I try not to BREAK things |
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| 00:32.55 | *** join/#brlcad bsder (n=andrewl@cpe-66-75-155-122.san.res.rr.com) | |
| 01:31.15 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: abort with a clean message if a pkgIndex.tcl file does not exist since open's failure message is less than ideal |
| 01:32.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: oop, remove debug print |
| 01:33.35 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ami.tcl: abort with a clean message if a tclIndex file does not exist since open's failure message is less than ideal |
| 01:41.50 | IriX64 | should report an error yes, but to abort? |
| 01:43.55 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): heh, there's quality control for ya.. check for existance of variable name so we actually do some work.. |
| 01:43.57 | brlcad | aborting is just a rude way of error'ing |
| 01:44.31 | brlcad | it should be more graceful about it though, yeah |
| 01:44.39 | IriX64 | agreed |
| 01:44.46 | brlcad | to fix it, look at the file dsp loading code |
| 01:44.59 | brlcad | src/librt/g_dsp.c .. match it to the abort error message you get |
| 01:45.36 | IriX64 | g_dsp.c line 3134 ive looked. |
| 01:49.37 | brlcad | if you "cd db" from inside the source tree, it should find its data file |
| 01:51.00 | IriX64 | after i bring up mged you mean, and load it from within "db"? |
| 01:52.06 | Maloeran | brlcad, Erik, can I assume zlib is not an unreasonable required dependency? |
| 01:52.30 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's already one |
| 01:52.34 | brlcad | (to brl-cad) |
| 01:52.44 | brlcad | so no, not at all ;) |
| 01:52.52 | Maloeran | Oh. :) |
| 01:53.16 | brlcad | pretty much anything like zlib that has zero dependencies of it's own are usually unreasonable |
| 01:53.51 | brlcad | or if the dep is just something like zlib with no deps of it's own |
| 01:55.55 | Maloeran | Usually unreasonable? |
| 01:55.56 | Maloeran | Just making sure you didn't intend to type "reasonable" instead |
| 01:55.56 | brlcad | other similar deps we currently already have, libpng, zlib, libregex, and termlib (not full-blown curses) |
| 01:55.56 | brlcad | er, yeah .. reasonable |
| 01:56.04 | IriX64 | will try it soon as this make install is done brlcad. |
| 01:56.24 | Maloeran | I can keep it optional, but if won't go nicely if processing nodes are compiled with/without it, without further handshake tests anyway |
| 01:56.36 | brlcad | something like gtk sit at the other extreme .. dependency hell |
| 01:56.51 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707015.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:57.03 | brlcad | zlib is trivial to use, no reason not to other than technical benefit |
| 01:57.09 | Maloeran | Nevermind actually, I'll keep it optional, I really prefer to keep dependencies to a minimum |
| 01:57.20 | brlcad | what are your deps currently? |
| 01:57.26 | louipc | Maloeran: cool vids ;) |
| 01:57.31 | brlcad | sdl's a fairly heavy one for keeping them to a minimum :) |
| 01:57.42 | Twingy | on my system I take make; make install and gtk isn't much of an issue :) |
| 01:57.52 | Maloeran | The engine : nothing but C99 and pthreads. The demos : SDL |
| 01:58.03 | Maloeran | Thanks louipc :) |
| 01:58.04 | brlcad | that's not too shabby |
| 01:58.05 | Twingy | I suppose anything is dependency hell if you have a crappy package system |
| 01:58.23 | Twingy | i.e. irix freeware |
| 01:58.30 | Twingy | i.e. redhat rpms |
| 01:59.05 | Maloeran | The video recording demo doesn't require SDL clearly, but I prefer some visible interactive output ;) |
| 01:59.06 | brlcad | which is the reality of being and caring about cross-platform |
| 01:59.16 | brlcad | if you don't care about that, then .. sure, not an issue |
| 02:01.46 | Maloeran | By the way brlcad, I found how to add proper N buffering support in SDL, but I don't think my patch would be accepted. It would be a mess to require a patched SDL too |
| 02:02.56 | brlcad | never know till you submit ;) |
| 02:03.07 | brlcad | i'd like that feature myself |
| 02:03.38 | brlcad | probably more of doing the patch in a way that is clean to the API |
| 02:04.42 | Maloeran | Easy : just provide a function to replace the "shadow" surface of any screen surface with another identical in size and format. The previous shadow surface becomes an independent surface |
| 02:06.45 | IriX64 | brlcad: tops reports mapped file open failed twice but it did do the list. |
| 02:07.15 | brlcad | so replace shadow with a pointer into an array, and add an API function to attach additional SDL_Surfaces (which just add to the array) like SDL_AddFlipSurface() |
| 02:07.41 | brlcad | then SDL_Flip just rotates the pointer through the array |
| 02:08.00 | brlcad | should be neat n clean enough to accept unless someone has moral objections to it |
| 02:08.01 | Maloeran | Rotation is not good enough, I must be able to hop erratically |
| 02:08.22 | Maloeran | Replacing the shadow surface is clean really, just changing one little pointer |
| 02:08.41 | brlcad | so add another that is SDL_SetFlipSurface() too, but let default just rotate or somesuch |
| 02:09.01 | brlcad | yeah, but that exposes an internal .. I can't see them accepting that |
| 02:09.48 | Maloeran | There's a function around it. SDL_SetShadowSurface( SDL_surface *shadow ); |
| 02:10.06 | Maloeran | The previous shadow/screen surface becomes a regular surface at that point, very simple |
| 02:10.18 | brlcad | so they already have the func |
| 02:10.25 | Maloeran | No :), that's mine |
| 02:10.33 | brlcad | ah.. hmm |
| 02:11.37 | brlcad | maybe they'll take it just like that, though they might not like the name if "Shadow" surfaces aren't exposed anywhere else |
| 02:12.01 | Maloeran | SDL_SetScreenSurface() might be more appropriate |
| 02:12.03 | brlcad | but that's easy enough to change if that's their only gripe |
| 02:12.16 | brlcad | go for it ;) |
| 02:12.37 | Maloeran | Now, I need to learn how to make a patch! :) I think it involves diff |
| 02:12.41 | brlcad | talked to any of the devs about making the change? |
| 02:12.42 | brlcad | hah |
| 02:12.45 | brlcad | serious? :) |
| 02:13.19 | Maloeran | Initial reply from dev was "I don't think it would be something we'd add to SDL itself" |
| 02:13.35 | brlcad | diff -u file > mymod.patch |
| 02:13.50 | brlcad | er diff -u fileold filenew > mymod.patch |
| 02:14.52 | Maloeran | Thanks |
| 02:15.51 | Maloeran | If multiple files were modified, can I append all the "diff" to the same patch? |
| 02:16.06 | louipc | :O |
| 02:16.09 | IriX64 | brlcad: aclocal-1.8.5/automake-1.8.5 fixes that syntax error in config bug. |
| 02:16.27 | louipc | Maloeran: yep |
| 02:16.29 | brlcad | diff -r -u dirold dirnew if you have entire directory differences, or even better ... cvs diff -u > mod.patch |
| 02:17.30 | brlcad | might want to add -b -B if you inadvertently changed whitespace too .. that's usually annoying to include with feature patches |
| 02:17.57 | brlcad | (never hurts, just means ignore differences in whitespace) |
| 02:18.03 | Maloeran | All right, thanks |
| 02:26.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): aha! enlightenment hath arrived. creating the index files actually sources the file args provided so when it ends up running the other amp?i.tcl script, it was choking on the error. just return 0 to indicate success. |
| 02:27.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (7 files in 7 dirs): ws |
| 02:51.09 | IriX64 | ``Erik, have you forgiven me yet for that wallpaper joke? |
| 02:57.49 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:58.54 | IriX64 | video magnification = 101 11111111110000000000111111111 right ? :) |
| 02:59.30 | IriX64 | the ten 1's and ten 0's are stored in the fram buffer. |
| 02:59.38 | IriX64 | frame too. |
| 03:00.49 | IriX64 | ive used this, top half of the screen is normal, bottom half is x10. |
| 04:16.48 | louipc | should variable names be that long? :P |
| 04:19.28 | Maloeran | Probably not :) |
| 04:21.20 | louipc | I know it's tough to juggle descriptiveness between brevity |
| 12:57.26 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.113.246) | |
| 13:53.57 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548762CA.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:12.17 | brlcad | *yawn* |
| 14:48.00 | ``Erik | indeed. |
| 14:53.13 | Maloeran | Argh no, not another 30cm of snow |
| 14:59.38 | ``Erik | hmmmm, the 'btree' I'm supposed to look at, is that the balanced binary tree in RF/mm.c ? |
| 15:00.00 | ``Erik | (and a btree is a fairly specific data structure that is not binary) |
| 15:00.41 | Maloeran | Yes, the btree functions in mm.c. mmBinaryTree* was a bit too long |
| 15:01.15 | Maloeran | It's not of much importance, I'm just curious to identify the kind of balanced binary tree |
| 16:00.15 | Maloeran | What a blizzard. I won't be riding a bicycle again anytime soon |
| 16:03.38 | ``Erik | weeee, I got to stomp around the boonies doing "geocaching" tomorrow :D |
| 16:03.41 | ``Erik | get to |
| 16:04.30 | Maloeran | stomp boonies, geocaching? |
| 16:05.05 | ``Erik | http://www.geocaching.com/ |
| 16:09.27 | Maloeran | Cool, weird stuff |
| 16:10.07 | brlcad | for the first time? |
| 16:10.34 | Maloeran | Of course not, but rock climbing is not very practical here during winter |
| 16:23.57 | brlcad | so, everything seems to be working at least under os x now with the upgraded tcl/tk |
| 16:24.45 | brlcad | actually, can't check tk so easily just yet, but everything seems to be behaving as it should so far and all tests run/pass |
| 16:26.43 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 16:33.12 | Maloeran | Neat, Survice crashed their email server by "exceeding disk space", for 3 days now |
| 16:43.14 | ``Erik | explains why my mail to eric didn't work |
| 17:30.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:30.13 | ``Erik | mal... |
| 17:30.33 | ``Erik | it looks like an attempt at an AVL tree |
| 17:30.35 | ``Erik | but it's not balanced. |
| 17:33.38 | ``Erik | (that woulda been MUCH faster if it were commented) |
| 17:41.47 | Maloeran | Of course it's balanced |
| 17:42.15 | Maloeran | Well kind of, it maintains the tree balance within good limits |
| 17:42.43 | ``Erik | 'within good limits'? :D |
| 17:43.02 | Maloeran | The most expensive branch can never be twice longuer than the shortest |
| 17:43.09 | Maloeran | And typically, the average is fairly good |
| 17:44.24 | Maloeran | I'm impressed you managed to make sense of the code :) |
| 17:46.46 | ``Erik | heh, it was rough and I still don't grok parts of it :) |
| 17:47.11 | ``Erik | some notional comment of what MM_BTREE_FLAGS_STEP is would make it a lot easier to read |
| 17:47.44 | ``Erik | and the naming convention makes things rough... 'anode' where I may've used 'ancestor_n' |
| 17:47.49 | Maloeran | It's a marker to recognize patterns in the tree structure |
| 17:49.27 | ``Erik | yeah, but that's one that's highlighted all through the insert ufnction on my printout as I was trying to 'solve' it :) |
| 17:50.02 | Maloeran | :) I think it's kind of elegant, very efficient |
| 17:50.36 | Maloeran | And the worst, rare case ( longuest twice as long as shortest ) is not too bad |
| 17:51.11 | Maloeran | So anyway, it's surely nothing new, but putting a name on the balanced binary tree could be nice |
| 17:51.57 | ``Erik | it's not really balanced, though, the min and max tree dpeth differ by more than 1 in cases |
| 17:52.35 | Maloeran | Of course. The point is high performance with a very much acceptable "worst case", it's not a perfect balance |
| 17:52.54 | Maloeran | Getting a perfect balance constantly is way too expensive, performance is the objective here |
| 17:53.55 | ``Erik | *shrug* well done avl's and rb trees are pretty fast, there was another one that stored dpeth at each node and rotated on the way down to maintain balance, I forget its name, though |
| 17:54.06 | ``Erik | I know it had lightening bolts on the diagrams in the MIT book :D |
| 17:54.51 | Maloeran | I think it's a weird rb tree. Anyhow, I was mostly looking for critisism on the rest of the code :) |
| 17:55.08 | ``Erik | rb trees are weird avl trees *shrug* |
| 17:55.52 | Maloeran | If you have a good rb implementation nearby, we could benchmark one day |
| 17:57.18 | ``Erik | hm |
| 17:57.18 | ``Erik | glib implements a couple balanced trees iirc, and libbu in BRL-CAD has an rb tree |
| 17:57.18 | ``Erik | bah, stupid linux |
| 18:02.44 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 18:03.32 | Maloeran | Woah. Erik, these harsh words wounded my Linux kernel so deeply that it commited suicide |
| 18:04.16 | ``Erik | heh, yes, such a fickle and unstable OS |
| 18:04.19 | ``Erik | emo software |
| 18:04.20 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:04.43 | Maloeran | An instant reboot, I can't blame overclocking on that box |
| 18:06.00 | Maloeran | Seriously, this is weird.. |
| 18:10.17 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:16.26 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/378697 |
| 18:20.00 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/378701 |
| 18:20.07 | IriX64 | shouldn't these .... |
| 18:20.18 | IriX64 | be restored by autoconf? |
| 18:20.32 | IriX64 | i mean your script generates them somehow but... |
| 18:26.05 | IriX64 | after running, autogen.sh aclocal still complains, but the missing files are now there :) |
| 18:35.26 | IriX64 | ``Erik thought you people were interested. |
| 18:36.49 | ``Erik | um, libtool, actually |
| 18:36.55 | ``Erik | from the libtoolize command |
| 18:37.03 | ``Erik | and automake, I think, if running in the -a mode |
| 18:37.13 | ``Erik | just use autogen.sh |
| 18:37.34 | ``Erik | on windows, automake might require -ca |
| 18:37.50 | IriX64 | no it runs successfully. |
| 18:37.56 | IriX64 | with no options. |
| 18:38.12 | ``Erik | uh, that second paste says that it does NO run successfully |
| 18:38.27 | IriX64 | urf thats after a distclean. |
| 18:38.43 | IriX64 | after autogen.sh if run standalone it does. |
| 18:47.06 | brlcad | IriX64: for the third time, that's because you're running the wrong manual steps and missing arguments |
| 18:47.57 | brlcad | if you're not going to read autogen.sh to figure out what those steps should be, don't waste (our and your) time with reports that individual steps aren't doing what you expect them to do |
| 18:51.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: include appropriate headers (cygwin fix) |
| 18:57.55 | ``Erik | fucking goddamn mother fucking!~#!~@!~ |
| 18:58.25 | ``Erik | in the middle of a build, a dialog on the windows machine pops up saying that it's downloaded updates and will automatically restart in 3 minutes... and the only button on the thing was 'restart now' |
| 18:58.47 | brlcad | hehehe |
| 19:02.53 | IriX64 | turn off automatic updates i hate that #%^$#%#% thing. |
| 19:04.23 | ``Erik | 'corporate' computer, I have no control of that machine |
| 19:04.38 | IriX64 | heh you're a marine ;) |
| 19:04.43 | ``Erik | shit, I probably need a triple signed memo to move an icon on the desktop |
| 19:04.55 | IriX64 | see above. |
| 19:04.58 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:05.08 | *** join/#brlcad cad95 (n=58751fe0@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:09.04 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/378754 <---- your steps. |
| 19:11.34 | brlcad | yes, that's better |
| 19:12.05 | brlcad | aside from a few additional sanity checks that autogen.sh does for you |
| 19:12.31 | brlcad | like restoring clobbered files, making sure there's no buggy versions doing bad things |
| 19:13.04 | brlcad | the aclocal warnings are benign and not our problem, you 'll notice they are for different projects |
| 19:27.09 | ``Erik | also; sweet. my little single threaded program took an 8 core opteron linux box to a load of 6 and ugly system consumption |
| 19:28.02 | IriX64 | brlcad: was just trying to help. |
| 19:28.28 | ``Erik | hehehehe but it made it to 17 gigs before puking, neat |
| 19:30.37 | IriX64 | try void main(void) { for(i=0i;1000000000000;i++) fputs(outfile,"Hello there"); } |
| 19:31.20 | IriX64 | ermf comma missing, oh well. |
| 19:32.08 | ``Erik | this was straining mal's semi-balanced tree routine |
| 19:33.46 | IriX64 | reminds me of OS/2 and trying to see how well the swap file worked :) |
| 19:34.19 | IriX64 | maybe ugly but it works. |
| 19:34.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): wire in libsysv as a librt dep (cygwin) |
| 19:34.40 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:38.32 | IriX64 | where's that answer to life, the universe, and everythin? |
| 19:38.56 | brlcad | IriX64: I understand.. but insisting on going down a faulty route isn't helpful.. now investigating g_dsp.. that's helpful ;) |
| 19:39.20 | IriX64 | don't remind me, btw i am still looking at it. |
| 19:39.49 | brlcad | actually.. IriX64, since you seem intent on finding faults.. there is one particular area that you could help with |
| 19:40.10 | IriX64 | where? |
| 19:40.33 | brlcad | and all it really involves is running the converter on the example geometry databases |
| 19:40.50 | IriX64 | which converter you have several. |
| 19:41.02 | IriX64 | or do you mean asc2g? |
| 19:41.49 | brlcad | yeah, sry .. i mean picking one of them that facetizes, like g-stl or g-dxf |
| 19:41.59 | ``Erik | hm |
| 19:42.03 | brlcad | g-something where "something" is some format that you can actually evaluate |
| 19:42.34 | IriX64 | ill see what i can do. |
| 19:43.22 | brlcad | then basically just ending up with a list/table of the geometry files in db/ and for each top level object, reporting whether g-whatever succeeded fully, partially, aborted abnormally, or outright crashed |
| 19:43.42 | brlcad | heck, if you did it for all the converters, that would be freaking sweet |
| 19:54.35 | IriX64 | tell you right now somethings wonky with g-dxf or dxf-g i translated to dxf and then used dxf-g and something got lost in the translation. |
| 19:55.40 | brlcad | which is why it would be useful to have a list of the geometry files and the behavior |
| 19:55.55 | brlcad | that would be a case for it was a partial conversion |
| 19:56.04 | brlcad | s/for/where/ |
| 19:56.18 | IriX64 | think its the file? I'll try another. |
| 19:56.39 | brlcad | sure, something like moss.g should be almost guaranteed to complete successfully |
| 19:59.24 | ``Erik | feck |
| 19:59.32 | IriX64 | says there no such thing in moss, guess i could bring mged up and verify that but you probably know. |
| 19:59.39 | IriX64 | as all i mean. |
| 20:00.13 | brlcad | each file has a different set of top-level objects |
| 20:00.24 | brlcad | run "mged -c file.g tops" to get the list |
| 20:00.39 | brlcad | each top-level object should be tested individually |
| 20:02.19 | IriX64 | got it found my problem with all |
| 20:02.33 | IriX64 | forgot the .g (goof that I am.) |
| 20:05.01 | ``Erik | (also keep in mind, _GLOBAL is not an object, it's a container for some file wide things like db title and default unit) |
| 20:05.24 | ``Erik | so moss.g will show _GLOBAL and all.g, you only care about all.g in that file |
| 20:05.50 | IriX64 | ty maybe ill tackle it obviously you're in no rush for it. |
| 20:06.14 | ``Erik | heh, we all have 8 zillion things to do |
| 20:06.17 | brlcad | not a "rush", but highly useful |
| 20:06.22 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:06.42 | ``Erik | and only three people really 'work' on the project, with other competing time consumers :/ |
| 20:07.22 | brlcad | more than three, but the % of their time is definitely shared |
| 20:07.26 | ``Erik | hey, brlcad, is 'egf' done, or are you still mucking with it? |
| 20:07.37 | brlcad | egf? |
| 20:07.41 | ``Erik | 3 'primary' ones, I think... I haven't seen anything from bob in a while |
| 20:07.46 | ``Erik | endgame |
| 20:07.49 | brlcad | ahh |
| 20:08.15 | brlcad | no, it's not "done" .. and is going to continue through a follow-on project over the upcoming months |
| 20:08.27 | brlcad | the converter effort is just about done |
| 20:08.31 | ``Erik | ah |
| 20:09.03 | brlcad | the follow-up should lead towards an improved C++ api to the geometry engine, as well as testing infrastructure improvements |
| 20:09.45 | brlcad | among other goodies, like helping with the brep improvements |
| 20:10.02 | brlcad | damn it's awesome outside right now |
| 20:12.09 | ``Erik | wahhh, I wanna be out playing geocache, wwwaaaahhhhhh |
| 20:12.52 | ``Erik | be a fun sailing day ;/ |
| 20:21.28 | Maloeran | Urgh Erik, 17gb of balanced binary trees? Are you trying to find a bug in my code or what? :) |
| 20:21.58 | ``Erik | um |
| 20:21.59 | ``Erik | yes? |
| 20:22.16 | Maloeran | Good, keep at it :) |
| 20:22.26 | ``Erik | Failed to malloc: 37748736000 |
| 20:22.41 | ``Erik | depth: 29 -> 56 (4) |
| 20:22.41 | ``Erik | 800.000000 : 307.289077 seconds |
| 20:23.02 | ``Erik | aand actually I'm mucking with nmg facetization right now :) |
| 20:23.20 | ``Erik | waiting for the widnows people to quit dicking with my computer so I can continue cygwin efforts |
| 20:24.30 | Maloeran | You had to call a windows sysadmin to be authorized to open a .c file, or perhaps to execute vim? |
| 20:25.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:25.17 | ``Erik | no, they asked me ot get off of it so they could patch it |
| 20:25.26 | Maloeran | I looked into nmg quite a bit too, but it wasn't very clear how to proceed to make triangles face the proper way |
| 20:25.36 | Maloeran | I would have kept going if I had more time to spare |
| 20:25.52 | Maloeran | That too |
| 20:27.09 | ``Erik | since nmg solves closed volumes, you can do a surface walk and orient winding or normals with two easy distinct possibilities: either they're all correct or all incorrect... and if they're ALL incorrect, just flip them all and it's done :) |
| 20:28.10 | ``Erik | but if it pukes on dangling faces or unclosed volumes, you don't get jack shit *shrug* |
| 20:28.32 | Maloeran | Yes, it's all part of the same problem really. Making it work properly |
| 20:29.32 | ``Erik | but I have my winderz machine back *sigh* |
| 20:29.55 | Maloeran | Why are you doing this on windows? |
| 20:30.15 | ``Erik | fixing nmg is on fbsd, but I'm trying to get it to build on cygwin... different effort |
| 20:31.48 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (6 files): restructure and simplify the jove tutorial/teaching stuff. |
| 20:43.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (7 files in 6 dirs): add SYSV where needed (cygwin) |
| 20:43.52 | IriX64 | of BRL-CAD i mean. |
| 20:44.43 | IriX64 | how do I get it to you, it's huge. |
| 20:46.44 | brlcad | i doubt he needs it |
| 20:46.48 | brlcad | he installed cygwin |
| 20:46.52 | Maloeran | I don't think Erik will accept any .dll file |
| 20:47.01 | IriX64 | ahhh we can compare notes. |
| 20:47.18 | IriX64 | the dll he has if he installed cygwin. |
| 20:47.38 | IriX64 | its in /bin . |
| 20:48.59 | IriX64 | 212,296kbyte bz2 file. |
| 20:50.29 | brlcad | louipc: does archlinux have a shorthand name? |
| 20:50.38 | brlcad | what does gnu call it? |
| 20:51.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: don't use winsock if building on cygwin, stick with UNIX style |
| 20:52.54 | IriX64 | ``Erik it's photon mapping my favorite wall candy. |
| 20:53.34 | ``Erik | if you can get 'rise' to build, it's niftier... src/adrt/rise |
| 20:53.52 | ``Erik | figuring out how to USE it will keep ya busy for a while, tho |
| 20:53.52 | IriX64 | ermf SDL issues still, working on it. |
| 20:54.03 | IriX64 | heh no doubt. |
| 20:54.18 | ``Erik | (but once you figure it out, you can tell us, so we can use it, too ;) |
| 20:55.38 | IriX64 | Jean-Luc picard, says to his Singer sewing machine repairman, "make it sew" :) |
| 20:55.47 | IriX64 | thats not mine tho. |
| 20:58.41 | IriX64 | hah nobody looked at the binaries in incoming? |
| 21:00.20 | ``Erik | http://www.tribeam.com/product.html#QC15 |
| 21:00.32 | IriX64 | tried to put wincad in there, permission denied (shrug) |
| 21:00.32 | ``Erik | just in case you NEED to charge 15 at a time |
| 21:01.19 | Maloeran | iPods are like duct tape, one never has quite enough |
| 21:03.45 | IriX64 | The novelty of this picture never wears off for m. |
| 21:03.49 | IriX64 | +e |
| 21:06.29 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:07.39 | IriX64 | apologies my own darn fault that denied thing. |
| 21:13.41 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 21:13.41 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: complete rewrite of the auto_path handling code in support of the forthcoming |
| 21:13.42 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: tcl/tk upgrade (8.5a5). the logic is entirely changed so that less arbitrary |
| 21:13.42 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: searching is performed. now the routine attempts to detect whether it's being |
| 21:13.42 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: run from a source directory or from an installed location, and allowing |
| 21:13.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: TCLCAD_LIBRARY_PATH to be obeyed for additional paths. this needs |
| 21:13.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: tweaking/testing on other platforms, but the overall approach is a vast |
| 21:17.45 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: call TclInitEncodingSubsystem() before Tcl_FindExecutable() in order to avoid what seems to be a race-condition bug inside Tcl_FindExecutable() (bizarre and unknown cause, but this works around the issue) |
| 21:25.06 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: use bu_file_exists() instead of stat() to see if the file exists |
| 21:25.39 | brlcad | the big one is just about ready |
| 21:33.18 | brlcad | given how big and different the build system changes are, it's almost guaranteed to break somewhere |
| 21:33.57 | brlcad | i already know that irix is currently busted due to the opennurbs stuff (and a busted mipspro c++ install), but even for linux, this might take some tweaking |
| 21:34.19 | brlcad | but might as well shove it in so the testing and fixing can occur in parallel a little better |
| 21:34.46 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 21:36.00 | brlcad | and here I bet 8.5x6 will come out within a week or two |
| 21:36.13 | brlcad | s/x6/a6/ |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (352 files in 19 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:47.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 21:47.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (563 files in 20 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:47.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:47.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:47.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:47.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:47.33 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:47.35 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 21:48.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (661 files in 17 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:48.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:48.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:48.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:48.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:48.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:48.22 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 21:48.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/ (764 files in 15 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:48.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:48.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:48.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:48.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:48.45 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:48.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 21:49.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/library/tzdata/ (270 files in 16 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:49.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:49.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:49.13 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:49.13 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:49.15 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:49.17 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 21:49.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (569 files in 17 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:49.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:49.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:49.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:49.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:49.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:49.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 21:50.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (592 files in 21 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:50.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using |
| 21:50.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed |
| 21:50.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather |
| 21:50.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need |
| 21:50.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as |
| 21:50.27 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and |
| 22:02.12 | Maloeran | Oh my, you are being very productive today Sean! |
| 22:03.19 | brlcad | that's a couple weeks of effort actually |
| 22:03.54 | brlcad | it is one "changeset", though it does feel good to finally get it into CVS |
| 22:04.38 | brlcad | that's one of those exceedingly rare examples where it can't be incremental, entire dependency upgrade |
| 22:06.48 | ``Erik | *cough* branch *cough* *cough* O:-) |
| 22:07.36 | brlcad | that would have just delayed it another day overall |
| 22:07.45 | brlcad | and then been dead |
| 22:08.19 | brlcad | iiinteresting, http://code.google.com/p/google-gtags/ |
| 22:10.46 | brlcad | what we should have, however, is a STABLE branch .. for folks like Dan and Lee that need it |
| 22:10.52 | IriX64 | ``Erik checkout ftp://ftp.cygwin.com |
| 22:10.55 | brlcad | not just a tag, but an actual branch |
| 22:14.25 | Maloeran | Cool. Interacting with xmms with the command line interface can pop up error windows on the remote box, but it doesn't say a thing on the command line |
| 22:15.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: upgrade of bundled tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5 |
| 22:16.03 | brlcad | or make it one of the highlights of the next release? |
| 22:17.12 | louipc | brlcad: you can refer to archlinux as arch |
| 22:17.20 | brlcad | too late :) |
| 22:17.25 | brlcad | already referring to it as "archlinux" ;) |
| 22:17.34 | louipc | haha that's fine |
| 22:17.55 | louipc | arch is kind of ambiguous too. could be talking about cpu 'architecture' |
| 22:18.34 | brlcad | right, that's part why I didn't like that |
| 22:18.43 | brlcad | what does config.guess say for archlinux? |
| 22:19.57 | ``Erik | tesselation and tnurb stuff isn't done, it's not documented, ... *shrug* |
| 22:20.04 | brlcad | k |
| 22:20.30 | brlcad | you did wireframe and mged edit hooks iirc? |
| 22:20.38 | brlcad | (gui hooks) |
| 22:20.42 | ``Erik | yeah, those're working |
| 22:20.50 | ``Erik | dave just started dorking with it this morning |
| 22:25.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (Makefile.am PKGBUILD.in brlcad.install.in brlcad.sh.in): |
| 22:25.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: initial import of packaging files used by Arch Linux, provided by Loui Chang |
| 22:25.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: (louipc). I took his files and modified them a little so that they are |
| 22:25.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: auto-populated with configure details, so there are fewer assumptions (cept |
| 22:25.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: there's no good way to populate the md5 checksum field without tying this to |
| 22:25.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 'make dist' somehow; might just be best to remove them). |
| 22:26.23 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into the archlinux directory |
| 22:28.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: create the archlinux files: Makefile, PKGBUILD, brlcad.install, brlcad.sh |
| 22:28.47 | louipc | brlcad: where's config.guess? |
| 22:30.43 | brlcad | louipc: any package that compiles using configure should have a config.guess stashed somewhere |
| 22:30.52 | brlcad | brl-cad's is in misc/config.guess |
| 22:31.07 | brlcad | just run it, and it should give the classic gnu monikers for your system |
| 22:31.20 | brlcad | e.g. $ brlcad/misc/config.guess |
| 22:31.21 | brlcad | i386-apple-darwin8.8.1 |
| 22:31.53 | louipc | oh alright I'm looking from fresh source 'didn't run ./configure' |
| 22:32.25 | brlcad | you probably have a half-dozen config.guess files on your system ;) |
| 22:33.37 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS AUTHORS): credit Loui Chang (louipc) with integration of BRL-CAD into the Arch Linux packaging system with special thanks for the effort |
| 22:33.59 | louipc | hehe it's very vague i686-pc-linux-gnu |
| 22:34.09 | brlcad | ah, generic linux |
| 22:35.19 | louipc | I'm pretty sure the stock archlinux kernel is tweaked a bit |
| 22:35.43 | louipc | from vanilla |
| 22:36.11 | brlcad | hm, redhat's coming up similarly generic too .. probably just doesn't matter |
| 22:41.48 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548762CA.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 23:07.16 | ``Erik | home at last |
| 23:07.45 | ``Erik | config.guess only sticks around if you ask for something like AC_CANONICAL_SYSTEM |
| 23:09.40 | ``Erik | if you wanna announce meaty-metaballs, knock yourself out... they may change drastically in the next month or two now that the 'customer' is finally putting hands on it |
| 23:10.33 | brlcad | the announcement corresponds to the feature not the user |
| 23:11.08 | ``Erik | <-- just noting that the feature may have major impetus to change very soon |
| 23:11.10 | brlcad | meaning if it was done in a usable state, it's probably worth announcing |
| 23:11.26 | ``Erik | it works, mostly |
| 23:11.43 | ``Erik | um, crank up mged and 'make blah.s metaball' |
| 23:11.43 | brlcad | though missing those two critical pieces |
| 23:11.50 | ``Erik | rt it and two some editing on it |
| 23:12.03 | ``Erik | it's there... can't tesselate and can't convert to nurbs |
| 23:12.19 | brlcad | actually just the first really |
| 23:12.26 | brlcad | the latter isn't critical |
| 23:12.33 | ``Erik | probably needs a proc-db or two entry, and docs *shrug* |
| 23:12.41 | ``Erik | but the evalution formula may change |
| 23:12.47 | ``Erik | evaluation |
| 23:13.07 | brlcad | implementation detail ;) |
| 23:13.10 | ``Erik | but *shrug* if you wanna toss a line in the announce, :D |
| 23:13.27 | brlcad | nah, I was going to give it a couple paragraphs writeup, not just a line |
| 23:13.36 | brlcad | but best to have the tessellation for that really |
| 23:14.27 | brlcad | and some image examples for the few announcement channels that handle rich announcements |
| 23:15.17 | ``Erik | hm, I have a couple images |
| 23:15.36 | brlcad | i'd just as well hold off until next release or after since there's already a writeup with the license changes |
| 23:15.56 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/niceballs.png |
| 23:16.06 | ``Erik | and a couple that were form 1'd for rt06 |
| 23:17.02 | brlcad | i would have just made some up on the fly, spell out brl-cad or somesuch, with texture and bump mapping |
| 23:17.30 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 23:17.39 | ``Erik | well, the code is in cvs, if you wanna *shurg* :D |
| 23:18.30 | brlcad | the code? |
| 23:18.53 | brlcad | oh, well yeah |
| 23:19.03 | brlcad | but again, not if it's still incomplete |
| 23:19.53 | brlcad | (i.e. needing tess) |
| 23:21.39 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/379059 |
| 23:24.37 | IriX64 | ermf... |
| 23:26.19 | IriX64 | found where the error message is coming from. |
| 23:26.53 | brlcad | yes, so it's checking if the mapped file is valid, and aborting |
| 23:27.14 | IriX64 | looks like it. |
| 23:27.23 | brlcad | it should recognize earlier that the mapped file is invalid and terminate more gracefully |
| 23:27.33 | brlcad | the trick is where in g_dsp does it abort? |
| 23:27.41 | IriX64 | does that routine get called on every file, it must no? |
| 23:28.42 | IriX64 | dude? whats the proper return for error encountered? |
| 23:29.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: don't know how many papers you have on the subject, but there were some great ones last year on tessellation of arbitrary implicit surfaces using particles that is impressive |
| 23:31.17 | brlcad | it would work exceptionally well for tessellation of metaballs in particular |
| 23:32.18 | brlcad | hmm.. here's one of the main guy's papers from a couple years ago: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/complex.pdf |
| 23:35.34 | brlcad | ahh, and more recently : http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/voronoi.pdf |
| 23:38.19 | IriX64 | wonder if that'll actually work, oh well. |
| 23:38.40 | IriX64 | had to start this build i'll develop required patience yet. |
| 23:38.46 | brlcad | if you can pinpoint where it aborts, I can probably fix it |
| 23:39.03 | IriX64 | man bu.h no error return on it. |
| 23:39.13 | IriX64 | ck_mag |
| 23:40.03 | IriX64 | err bu_ck_mag i think. |
| 23:41.32 | IriX64 | if you're patient, i can let you know if that cheezy fix fixes it. |
| 23:41.59 | brlcad | avoiding the check isn't interesting .. it aborts there correctly |
| 23:42.21 | brlcad | the point is to find where in g_dsp that it is aborting, detecting that situation beforehand and just returning a failure instead |
| 23:42.28 | brlcad | if you know where in g_dsp, I'll take a loot |
| 23:42.29 | IriX64 | not avoiding the check. |
| 23:42.47 | brlcad | edits to bu.h are wrong |
| 23:42.49 | IriX64 | line? i posted it... 1334 i think. |
| 23:43.03 | brlcad | in g_dsp.c ? |
| 23:43.07 | IriX64 | yes |
| 23:43.14 | IriX64 | lemme verify. |
| 23:43.21 | ``Erik | particles? hrm, I just outlined 3 "classic" approaches in a project plan a couple weeks ago... marching cubes, ray shot hack (lee's idea, go figure) and using tnurbs as an intermediate |
| 23:44.08 | brlcad | marching cubes is the classic |
| 23:44.08 | IriX64 | 3134 |
| 23:44.13 | ``Erik | ancient, even |
| 23:44.18 | ``Erik | so old that the patent has expired. |
| 23:44.24 | brlcad | ray shot hack is undoubtedly a variation of marching cubes to make it work |
| 23:44.40 | ``Erik | kinda sorta almost, I suppose |
| 23:44.45 | IriX64 | got that line 3134 in dsp_g.c |
| 23:44.50 | ``Erik | lee's answer to every geometry problem is to shoot rays through it and approximate |
| 23:44.54 | brlcad | the particles stuff is impressive |
| 23:44.58 | brlcad | and instant |
| 23:45.17 | IriX64 | err g_dsp.c |
| 23:45.24 | ``Erik | I grabbed the newer paper you pasted |
| 23:45.28 | ``Erik | is it worth grabbing the older one? |
| 23:45.42 | brlcad | IriX64: ah, hm, interesting |
| 23:45.58 | brlcad | yeah, the older is the basis for the newer |
| 23:46.09 | brlcad | hart is like the main implicit surfaces guy in the field |
| 23:46.12 | ``Erik | ok, wgot. |
| 23:46.22 | brlcad | http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/ |
| 23:46.33 | brlcad | he's got tons of interesting stuff of relevance |
| 23:47.05 | brlcad | but those two are probably the most relevant for metaballs as they outline an exact approach |
| 23:47.07 | ``Erik | hm, uni of illinois is consistantly a name that pops up in graphics |
| 23:47.27 | ``Erik | all cs things, really :/ mebbe moreso than north carolina |
| 23:48.02 | ``Erik | perhaps an odd twist of the midwest mentality... "ain't nothin' to do but drink and fuck"... and those who can't get tail or booze... code? :D *duck* |
| 23:49.03 | brlcad | you've seen hart before, he's almost always presenting or organizing at siggraph |
| 23:51.17 | ``Erik | if I say in a session he's spoken at before... I've only been to one siggraph |
| 23:51.37 | ``Erik | and I was pretty heavy on fluid dynamics at that one |
| 23:51.43 | ``Erik | a bit on high perf rt |
| 23:51.46 | brlcad | ahh, that's right |
| 00:02.36 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/379119 |
| 00:05.02 | ``Erik | actually, bu_free is a tiny bit more complicated, dude |
| 00:05.19 | IriX64 | only looked at the first part :) |
| 00:05.48 | ``Erik | src/libbu/malloc.c:357 |
| 00:06.01 | IriX64 | ty just a sec. |
| 00:06.11 | brlcad | IriX64: you did pinpoint the error.. a couple lines off, but I see the problem |
| 00:06.26 | IriX64 | glad to help. |
| 00:09.01 | ``Erik | swank |
| 00:09.23 | IriX64 | a full blown memory manager ``Erik nice lot of work there. |
| 00:10.24 | ``Erik | heh, I surspect the person to blame is in a better place these days. |
| 00:10.49 | IriX64 | heh the hand having coded moves on eh ? :) |
| 00:12.16 | IriX64 | sometimes returning a null can come in handy :) |
| 00:12.22 | ``Erik | happens to the best |
| 00:12.50 | ``Erik | unfortunately, I never met the man :) the lore has raised him to godlike status where I work |
| 00:13.28 | IriX64 | lore tends to generate legends. |
| 00:13.43 | IriX64 | whether they like it or not :) |
| 00:14.28 | ``Erik | so have you started pulling top level elements from files to try the conversion circuit? |
| 00:14.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_dsp.c: |
| 00:14.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: fix a bug, or at least really bad behavior, where calling up the wireframe of a |
| 00:14.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: dsp that failed to load any data would cause the app (mged) to abort. the abort |
| 00:14.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: was due to a BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE that was occurring before an already existing |
| 00:14.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: check for whether the data was valid. reordered correctly, and updated the |
| 00:14.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: error message to say what wasn't found so the user might have an idea of what to |
| 00:14.42 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: look for. |
| 00:15.12 | ``Erik | <-- points to src/conv/Formats.csv as the map on might be able to do (lossy) round-trip |
| 00:15.12 | IriX64 | man, i still have to work out a plan of attack for that. |
| 00:15.32 | IriX64 | won't promise anything. |
| 00:16.13 | ``Erik | well, if you start digging and run into a problem, submitting a bug report via the sourceforge interface would be hugely helpful to us poor code monkeys |
| 00:16.21 | brlcad | ``Erik: the lore surrounded him even before he was gone |
| 00:16.24 | IriX64 | sure. |
| 00:17.08 | ``Erik | heh, perhaps because he was one of the very few tech types who told mgmt types to go fornicate themselves and survived? :D *duck* |
| 00:17.25 | brlcad | not really, he didn't have anything like that sort of personality |
| 00:17.52 | brlcad | he just did his own thing, that was usually something breakthrough or insightful and rarely questionable |
| 00:18.09 | ``Erik | and as far as I can tell, the real instance was that he was told to do something and said "no" |
| 00:18.16 | IriX64 | and he obviously did not produce null code (duck) |
| 00:18.16 | brlcad | his personality was exceptionally charismatic |
| 00:18.24 | ``Erik | and the thing he was probably told to do was probably excessively moronic |
| 00:18.48 | ``Erik | like, say, a technical person attending a briefing on the fy07 program build |
| 00:18.49 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 00:18.50 | brlcad | well, yeah, he could do that as well, he more than earned it |
| 00:19.36 | ``Erik | wendy chewed me out for skipping starks briefing today, told me I have to attend the 'makeup' session... so I put an OMP71 in her box for that entire week off as accrued leave. |
| 00:19.40 | ``Erik | monday might be interesting |
| 00:20.48 | ``Erik | (that week is actually to accomodate a friend who wants to visit, it just happens to concide with the briefing) |
| 00:21.03 | ``Erik | fucking retarded fucking bullshit |
| 00:24.28 | brlcad | that you apparently care about and let get to you and fume, bitch, and moan instead of dealing with in more productive ways |
| 00:24.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:25.32 | ``Erik | I think I've done everything I can short of finding new employment |
| 00:25.39 | brlcad | seriously, you either brush it off and ignore/deal with it, or you do something else (whether it's actively discussing, or going above, or going elsewhere) |
| 00:26.29 | brlcad | as it is, you're somewhere half-way in between half ignoring but with a lot of behind the scenes bitching and moaning |
| 00:26.45 | brlcad | if you're really that unhappy, tell them, and tell them again, and again |
| 00:27.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:27.17 | ``Erik | I've been to bobs office a few times |
| 00:27.20 | ``Erik | and pauls a couple |
| 00:27.26 | ``Erik | I'm not bitching behind the scenes, dude :D |
| 00:27.32 | brlcad | yeah you do |
| 00:27.36 | brlcad | most of the building does |
| 00:28.02 | brlcad | only a couple people have actually confronted her on topics when they grate |
| 00:29.32 | brlcad | I dunno, I'm not nearly as insulated from that sort of stuff as you might think, but I also just don't care so I ignore it or confront when it does impact me |
| 00:30.07 | brlcad | I arrive for two specific reasons, and those two reasons alone |
| 00:30.18 | brlcad | BRL-CAD and to work with Mike |
| 00:30.45 | brlcad | can't do the latter, obviously |
| 00:34.20 | brlcad | you gotta know what you want and stick to it, and for that want to actually be something beneficial .. and stay focused on that -- when you do, the rest just doesn't matter no matter how required things get |
| 00:35.14 | brlcad | anyways, that's all just my thoughts on life in general .. gotta be passionate and happy, else what's the point? |
| 00:35.50 | brlcad | IriX64: and thanks again.. that actually was rather helpful for once ;-) |
| 00:38.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent mged shutdown on DSP objects with no data, thanks to IriX64 for pinpointing the general locality of code that was causing the shutdown. |
| 00:42.49 | brlcad | tis a noble and good goal, a bit vague/abstract, but something |
| 00:45.11 | brlcad | but it also doesn't quantify exactly what you want to be doing.. |
| 00:46.03 | brlcad | it's saying what you want the impact of whatever you do to be .. which a lot of people won't jive with or understand or care |
| 00:46.21 | brlcad | but putting it in terms of what you actually want to do, makes a big difference |
| 00:47.13 | ``Erik | <-- heavy in the classic thought in CS... looks back to the 60's and 70's and can't understand what the flying fuck happened |
| 00:47.14 | brlcad | I want to have brl-cad be the best open source solid modeling system, handling 2d and 3d, and with dozens of devs and massive community activity |
| 00:47.35 | ``Erik | working on brl-cad is an awfully nice angle and provides the framework to address serious problems |
| 00:47.37 | brlcad | but from a "doing" perspective, I simply want to work on the code, make improvements, etc |
| 00:47.48 | brlcad | sure |
| 00:48.04 | brlcad | this particular project can be spun to so many angles and interests.. :) |
| 00:48.08 | ``Erik | being chewed out for working on brl-cad instead of attending a useless meeting is... yet one more burr to frustrate and anger. |
| 00:49.03 | brlcad | that's where I think you're letting a distraction get to ya .. and understandably, but you have grounds to just not care if you keep the focus |
| 00:49.36 | ``Erik | I'm already biased in a degree... last time I let her go unchecked, I spent 60% of my work life in meetings. |
| 00:50.04 | ``Erik | so when she pushes the meeting thing AT ALL, i'm immediately in an extreme defensive posture |
| 00:51.06 | ``Erik | (unfortunately, I think the lead pipe I beat her with to get out of the 60% meeting time issue was the catalyst for the TSP report) |
| 00:51.19 | ``Erik | TPS report |
| 00:51.22 | ``Erik | rather |
| 00:51.41 | brlcad | see, my angle on that would have just been "look, i'm here to work on brl-cad -- that is my job and interest, listening to starks doesn't help me do my job any better so I didn't attend -- I have to manage my time effectively or I'd be in meetings all day every day." |
| 00:52.02 | brlcad | and if that position can't be defended on the technical reasons alone, then maybe they do have a point |
| 00:52.03 | ``Erik | yeah, uh... didn't work for me. |
| 00:52.25 | ``Erik | but I didn't push it too awfully far *shrug* |
| 00:54.15 | brlcad | well, was it an actual mandated requirement? |
| 00:54.20 | ``Erik | I'd imagine she has a delusion that all gov't employees want to be a bc some day |
| 00:54.27 | brlcad | if it was, then there's higher ups that you should complain to |
| 00:54.28 | ``Erik | no, it was noted that it was happening via email |
| 00:54.36 | ``Erik | that was it |
| 00:54.52 | ``Erik | nothing said it was mandatory, or even expected... just that if you were interested, it was happening |
| 00:55.05 | ``Erik | the NEXT one is mandatory to gov't employees now, via her decree |
| 00:55.30 | brlcad | so it's not mandatory, you can safely stick to your morals/passion/whatever and manage your time how you see appropriate |
| 00:55.59 | brlcad | that just makes you subversive |
| 00:56.02 | ``Erik | if she denies it cuz I'd miss that meeting, I might talk to bob |
| 00:56.05 | ``Erik | well |
| 00:56.17 | ``Erik | the opm71 is because a friend is going to be in the area that week |
| 00:56.19 | ``Erik | from missouri |
| 00:56.28 | ``Erik | so, y'know, I wanna hang with her, not go to work |
| 00:56.35 | brlcad | yeah yeah, it's also an excuse and you know it else it would be irrelevant :) |
| 00:57.01 | ``Erik | heh, actually, I'd already submitted and put it on my calendar, then I found out she was going to try to come out... |
| 00:57.13 | brlcad | if you professionally don't think it's worth your time, then you should say it |
| 00:57.30 | brlcad | and stick to it on those grounds, regardless of whatever other reasons you might have for also not going |
| 01:13.06 | ``Erik | heh, and if I get shitcanned for that, are you gonna loan me a few grand to get back on my feet? :D |
| 01:24.34 | ``Erik | I drive super slow.. in the ultrafast lane... ! D |
| 01:24.39 | ``Erik | fun song |
| 01:25.16 | Twingy | I think I'm gonna repair the demon plane |
| 01:25.21 | Twingy | just needs a new nose |
| 01:25.38 | ``Erik | ... |
| 01:25.48 | ``Erik | and some anti-finger equipment. |
| 01:25.52 | Twingy | heh |
| 01:25.55 | Twingy | I'll mount the engine upright |
| 01:25.59 | Twingy | forget the cowling |
| 01:26.08 | Twingy | that plane wasn't designed for an OS46 upside down |
| 01:26.11 | ``Erik | I doubt the inversion was the issue |
| 01:26.14 | Twingy | I don't care what they say |
| 01:26.19 | Twingy | dude |
| 01:26.25 | Twingy | the thing was leaking fuel like an SR71 |
| 01:26.31 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:26.41 | Twingy | oh yours, sure |
| 01:26.56 | ``Erik | yeah, it spit gas like a mofo even when in a happy place |
| 01:26.57 | Twingy | but when you see the fuel dripping on the ground you got problems |
| 01:26.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:27.14 | Twingy | so it was either cut your finger off or go up in flames |
| 01:27.28 | ``Erik | flame injurs slow |
| 01:27.32 | Twingy | that's why I love that plane |
| 01:27.35 | Twingy | I dunno |
| 01:27.37 | Twingy | nitromethane |
| 01:27.40 | Twingy | a little like napalm |
| 01:27.54 | ``Erik | fast propogation, but reasonably low burn temperature |
| 01:27.57 | Twingy | you get that crap on you and it's like you gotta scrape it off |
| 01:28.01 | Twingy | yea, low temp |
| 01:28.16 | Twingy | just HIGHLY toxic fuems |
| 01:28.20 | ``Erik | yeah, but hard suffocation is effective |
| 01:28.28 | ``Erik | and in open air *shrug* |
| 01:28.31 | Twingy | after you pass out you'll fall onto the propellar |
| 01:28.41 | ``Erik | i doubt it's that fast |
| 01:29.01 | ``Erik | human brains function an awfully long time without fresh exygen |
| 01:29.04 | ``Erik | oxygen |
| 01:29.10 | Twingy | Demon-II |
| 01:29.36 | Twingy | I all I need is 2 servos |
| 01:30.03 | Twingy | I bought one of the buddy cables so I can interface my r/c controller to a pic chip |
| 01:30.10 | ``Erik | if it's stupid and over-reactive, y'know, I'll bear the burden. that's cool with me. |
| 01:30.10 | Twingy | ...and train the occaisonal noob |
| 01:30.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:30.49 | ``Erik | most newbs, the "passover" is good 'nuff |
| 01:31.00 | Twingy | yep |
| 01:31.25 | Twingy | cause I'm lazy I'll interface mine with a PIC cheap and pass serial data back out |
| 01:31.54 | Twingy | hehe, I was stubborn and crashed my first plane and then knew how to fly |
| 01:32.00 | Twingy | twice |
| 01:32.30 | ``Erik | :D do you have software that can compenstate for trees on either side of the landing strip and figure out a cut in and glide path? |
| 01:33.21 | Twingy | I stopped at hobby works in bel air today |
| 01:33.29 | Twingy | they have a decent amount of stuff |
| 01:33.41 | Twingy | I bet chuck would enjoy the trains |
| 01:33.43 | ``Erik | <-- willing to be the 'newb' and learn from someone more knowlegeablae |
| 01:33.45 | ``Erik | oh? |
| 01:34.07 | ``Erik | a little google work exposed an electronics store walking distance from me |
| 01:34.08 | Twingy | after you pay for shipping from tower |
| 01:34.09 | ``Erik | like |
| 01:34.14 | Twingy | that store is still about 5% more expensive |
| 01:34.17 | ``Erik | walking distance fro ME |
| 01:34.29 | ``Erik | which is hardly past the beer fridge |
| 01:34.50 | Twingy | so you can grab a sam adams and 555 timer in one trip |
| 01:35.03 | ``Erik | he |
| 01:35.17 | ``Erik | the electronics store is closer than the nearest package store |
| 01:35.33 | Twingy | after I get my rocket motor built and working I'll try to make an entire plane on my cnc mill |
| 01:35.35 | Twingy | using gcam |
| 01:36.02 | ``Erik | put a blade on to cut balsa? |
| 01:36.20 | Twingy | 1/8" endmill at 10k rpm @ 15 ipm will cut like butter |
| 01:36.32 | Twingy | single pass |
| 01:36.46 | ``Erik | not gonna cut out die's to press? :D |
| 01:36.55 | Twingy | I will probably do fiberglass instead of monokote though |
| 01:37.04 | Twingy | they laser cut them at the factory |
| 01:37.12 | ``Erik | if you intend to make more than a doze of a kit, making the blades to press might be worth it *shrug* |
| 01:37.14 | Twingy | friend of mine build a 25W cnc laser cutter |
| 01:37.19 | Twingy | then moved to canada |
| 01:37.38 | Twingy | laser leaves a better finish |
| 01:37.45 | ``Erik | I used to contemplate moving to canada.. but the news buzz lately isn't exactly appealing |
| 01:38.07 | Twingy | he went there cause his wife needed surgery |
| 01:38.11 | ``Erik | of course lasers are nice, but they might not bte 'right' for mass production |
| 01:38.20 | ``Erik | <-- hopes he and his wife are doign well |
| 01:38.26 | Twingy | all the hobby vendors use laser cnc now for balsa |
| 01:38.40 | ``Erik | huh |
| 01:38.54 | Twingy | scan through tower, they all say laser cut balsa |
| 01:38.55 | ``Erik | I guess the die cut his all history now :/ |
| 01:39.04 | Twingy | yep |
| 01:39.19 | Twingy | no need to make new dies with laser cnc |
| 01:39.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:39.36 | Twingy | and it's not exactly like tower is selling 5,000 of every type of plane a day |
| 01:39.42 | Twingy | they probly sell one or two planes a day |
| 01:43.01 | ``Erik | of course, with a mill and a side cutter, no need for dies at all, just account for the material cut away as dust... |
| 01:43.01 | Twingy | maybe 4 or 5 during summer |
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| 01:56.29 | Twingy | if they sprayed the entire wing with a fine mist of CA before coating that thing would be 3x stronger |
| 02:03.48 | Twingy | Total Saved: $66.90 Net Savings: $-6133.1 Total kWh: 367 Oil Barrels: 0.74 Coal Tonnage: 0.18 Twinkies: 1584 |
| 02:07.19 | brlcad | almost a whole barrel, nifty |
| 02:07.42 | brlcad | do you fluctuate your average against the actual price of crude oil for the day? |
| 02:07.51 | brlcad | that would be sweet |
| 02:08.06 | Twingy | the conversion is joules of energy, not price |
| 02:08.17 | brlcad | ah |
| 02:08.35 | Twingy | so it should be relatively close |
| 02:08.51 | Twingy | as in slightly higher |
| 02:09.01 | brlcad | quite a bit higher by the time you get to 100% |
| 02:09.13 | brlcad | barrels peaked a high at $70 |
| 02:09.20 | brlcad | they're at something like 44 now |
| 02:09.29 | Twingy | by this 1 barrel will cost like $90 and a barrel right now costs $70 something I think |
| 02:09.35 | Twingy | k |
| 02:09.53 | Twingy | gotta factor in bge's distribution charges and fixed rates |
| 02:10.12 | brlcad | and lobbying interests, ceo fees, etc |
| 02:10.14 | Twingy | costs them like 1.25 barrels in energy for every 1 barrel they deliver due to losses |
| 02:10.37 | brlcad | yeah.. "losses" |
| 02:10.52 | Twingy | even at 700kV over transmission lines there is still considerable loss |
| 02:11.01 | Twingy | especially once it hits the 480V ground transformers |
| 02:11.12 | Twingy | ah |
| 02:12.17 | Twingy | I have a bunch of good ideas for anyone that wants to do a solid modeling based cam package using brlcad's libs |
| 02:12.25 | IriX64 | brlcad: tcl8.5a? |
| 02:12.57 | brlcad | IriX64: question? |
| 02:13.22 | IriX64 | brlcad: you guys are updating to tcl 8.5a soon? |
| 02:13.40 | brlcad | IriX64: that was the massive commit earlier today |
| 02:13.56 | IriX64 | all ready done then thanks. |
| 02:14.16 | louipc | Twingy: that would be sweet |
| 02:14.40 | Twingy | I can tell you exactly how you would do it with brl-cad's architecture |
| 02:15.18 | Twingy | would require a custom interface and new intersection routines for some primitives, but otherwise stock |
| 02:17.34 | brlcad | what sort of new intersection routines? to support g-code? |
| 02:17.43 | IriX64 | brlcad: cvs browse shows libtcl8.3 and libtcl8.4 , no 8.5 |
| 02:17.47 | Twingy | plane interection instead of ray intersection |
| 02:17.59 | Twingy | plane-tracing |
| 02:17.59 | brlcad | IriX64: you're looking in the old structure |
| 02:18.08 | IriX64 | whup pardon me. |
| 02:18.09 | brlcad | Twingy: ahh |
| 02:18.17 | brlcad | IriX64: look in the src/other dir |
| 02:18.31 | Twingy | but I can tell you how to do the logistics of generating tool paths from the plane equations |
| 02:18.53 | brlcad | Twingy: I was thinking that you'd use CSG and intersect each layer with a thin RPP .. the rasterize the layer with ray-tracing |
| 02:19.18 | Twingy | brlcad, if you wanted to hot-wire it, same thing... |
| 02:19.42 | Twingy | but in terms of generating optimal pocketing code I know how to do that |
| 02:19.53 | Twingy | otherwise your part will take foreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever to finish |
| 02:20.02 | brlcad | what kind of equation result would you get intersecting a plane against something like a torus.. |
| 02:20.07 | Twingy | lrt vs. rayforce in terms of time |
| 02:20.38 | Twingy | brlcad, you limit yourself to arb8, tgc, sphere |
| 02:20.43 | brlcad | ahh, hehe |
| 02:20.48 | brlcad | that's cheating |
| 02:20.49 | Twingy | for starters |
| 02:20.54 | Twingy | no... |
| 02:21.03 | Twingy | that's supports the native g-codes |
| 02:21.11 | Twingy | so you have optimal tool paths |
| 02:21.18 | Twingy | with implicit definitions |
| 02:21.27 | Twingy | other primitives become parametric |
| 02:21.35 | Twingy | and should be avoided at all cost |
| 02:21.41 | brlcad | the tgc is a good example too .. you end up with soemthing really wonky with certain tgcs |
| 02:22.12 | Twingy | anyway, If some one gets a hankering to do it I got all the nitty gritty details worked out in my head |
| 02:23.03 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:23.11 | Twingy | afaik gcam is the most powerful open source cam package |
| 02:23.23 | brlcad | I'd like that too.. but I think the optimal approach is actually to complete the dual-rep brep support |
| 02:23.35 | brlcad | then you'd actually have exact curves and connectivity for any slice |
| 02:23.40 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:23.58 | Twingy | just like you can decompose a b-spline into beziers, and beziers into polynomials, and ultimately arcs |
| 02:24.09 | brlcad | it's coming along nicely actually, for the time being |
| 02:24.24 | Twingy | I want to have 3 modes |
| 02:24.38 | Twingy | the first mode, the one I have now, is doing cad with tool paths |
| 02:24.50 | Twingy | the second mode will be importing triangular brep geometries |
| 02:24.53 | brlcad | implicit, explicit brep polygonal, explicit brep sline surface |
| 02:25.00 | Twingy | the third mode will be implicit csg support |
| 02:25.35 | Twingy | once I put it on subversion I hope others will take care of the csg stuff |
| 02:25.50 | Twingy | since the interface and architecture are fairly mature now |
| 02:25.58 | brlcad | csg brep splines is going to be a bitch |
| 02:26.15 | Twingy | I don't think it will be |
| 02:26.30 | Twingy | they decompose very nicely into arcs |
| 02:26.46 | Twingy | and the code to do it can be optimized quite a bit |
| 02:26.50 | brlcad | not in 2D, but in 3D it's not exactly trivial |
| 02:26.58 | Twingy | I'm talking 3d |
| 02:28.00 | Twingy | you're basically generating piecewise spherical patches |
| 02:28.36 | Twingy | with C2 continuity since it's quadratic |
| 02:29.15 | Twingy | alright, I need to finish repairing this wing |
| 02:29.20 | Twingy | bbl |
| 03:29.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: updated bundled blt to blt2.4z-patch-2 |
| 04:19.30 | IriX64 | ``Erik, that file in incoming *should work on your cygwin setup if you use the included cygwin1.dll. |
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| 07:49.39 | clock_ | brlcad: I have improved the Ronja model with a lot of little screws |
| 07:49.43 | clock_ | Now I think it's complete |
| 09:19.06 | clock_ | brlcad: screenshot for you http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f92.html |
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| 12:08.00 | ``Erik | irix: I want to make it work without issues on cygwin... thus the recent commits. |
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| 15:09.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix leftover from previous version separation, need to extract the numbers if we want to check them directly here. fixes unary operator expected errors. |
| 15:24.28 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer need to replicate tcl's configure checks since we're using AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS so remove the dead sections |
| 15:27.41 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/configure.in tk/unix/configure.in): heh, tcl/tk seem to indicate they need autoconf 2.59, which is newer than our present 2.52 minimum. there don't appear to be any post-2.52 macros in use, so reduce the AC_PREREQ. |
| 16:01.31 | *** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222) | |
| 16:01.37 | lg_ | hi |
| 16:02.00 | lg_ | I have a basic brlcad modeling question again... |
| 16:04.16 | brlcad | howdy |
| 16:04.54 | lg_ | is there any way to do some basic geometrical analysis on cgs-made shapes, such as finding intersection points etc? |
| 16:04.59 | lg_ | hi brlcad! |
| 16:05.47 | brlcad | lg_: yes there are |
| 16:06.09 | lg_ | at the moment i am doing everything on paper or in 2d cad and use the resulting coordinates to model in brlcad |
| 16:06.13 | brlcad | for that particular one, nirt is the general tool |
| 16:06.26 | lg_ | nirt? |
| 16:06.53 | brlcad | nirt fires a shotline from a given point in a given direction and reports the starting/ending hitpoints as well as thicknesses |
| 16:07.14 | brlcad | if you don't specify the start/dir, then it uses the viewing direction |
| 16:07.58 | brlcad | other analytic tools include "rtcheck" to determine if there are any overlaps, takes a grid size -s parameter (defaults to 50x50 or 512x512 depending on version) |
| 16:08.15 | lg_ | say i have to spheres that intersect and i need the points where the intersection starts and ends as coordinates |
| 16:08.18 | lg_ | two spheres |
| 16:08.21 | lg_ | ;-) |
| 16:08.41 | brlcad | another is rtweight which when you've correctly modelled regions, and denote material properties and provide a density file, computes the weight/mass, volume, center of gravity, etc |
| 16:09.40 | brlcad | lg_: for that case, I'd shoot a ray from the center of sph1 to the center of sphere2 |
| 16:09.40 | brlcad | that should give you exactly the start and end |
| 16:09.56 | lg_ | a |
| 16:10.25 | brlcad | that one is actually so common that there's a script floating around that computes it all for you when you specify the two spheres |
| 16:10.31 | brlcad | but I don't have it on hand atm |
| 16:10.59 | brlcad | i can look for it after the weekend more easily |
| 16:11.53 | lg_ | is there any kind of howto for doing these kind of construction steps? in other cad's, one uses things like object snaps, but it makes brlcad really hard to start with when you do not know how to start |
| 16:13.45 | brlcad | lg_: alas, that's a lot of the introductory polish and user friendliness that hurts brl-cad .. most of the tricks of the trade are learned by turning to the expert modeler in the office next door who has done it 50 times and knows the fastest way |
| 16:14.01 | brlcad | or you find out via the two week training courses in person |
| 16:14.32 | lg_ | next door there is a primary school teacher living |
| 16:14.58 | brlcad | from a world-wide product perspective, we're only starting to acquire that sort of "self-help" stuff |
| 16:15.01 | brlcad | hehe |
| 16:15.37 | brlcad | the irc channel, forums, and lists are a good start, but I agree there needs to be more self-guided instruction |
| 16:17.14 | brlcad | that's actually one of the things that's hard to convey (and even describe) that gets lots in many users first impression of the package.. you *can* do most of the things one needs (presuming it relates to solid modeling) just finding out how to do it is generally expert knowledge shared by word of mouth |
| 16:18.16 | brlcad | something i'm definitely trying to address in the new interface, more self-describing tools and if anything just make it easier to discover what tools/commands/buttons do what and how to use them |
| 16:18.18 | Maloeran | But fortunately, brlcad's voice can be heard throughout the universe for anyone who desires so |
| 16:19.42 | Maloeran | I think your patience is impressive really, especially with IriX, but... |
| 16:20.44 | louipc | how about a wiki? |
| 16:23.36 | brlcad | louipc: already working on it |
| 16:23.41 | brlcad | the whole website actually |
| 16:23.55 | brlcad | what's up there was just splash n' dash |
| 16:24.10 | brlcad | there's another layout with all the bells and whistles coming together |
| 16:24.22 | brlcad | this current release is actually all that's holding it back |
| 16:27.26 | louipc | awesome |
| 16:30.30 | lg_ | getting curious |
| 17:04.42 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: htester needs tcl and libm |
| 17:06.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: non-mac tcl compiles against libdl, so add it as a dep in here (since we're static) |
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| 20:33.59 | IriX64 | erf there's one in the win directory, allows a compile and link, but... |
| 20:35.11 | IriX64 | won't run properly. |
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| 23:49.25 | Maloeran | What does the acronym "MTB" stands for? Google isn't helping |
| 23:50.04 | Maloeran | If knowledge of the context could help, it comes from Mark |
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| 00:41.08 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/380357 <---- mged no longer crashes on e all from terra.g |
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| 01:16.49 | IriX64 | back. |
| 01:16.52 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 04:35.24 | brlcad | IriX64: 7.8.4 nor cvs head use comments like you showed in the pastebin.. that brace belongs there else it's a syntax error to close it |
| 05:22.11 | IriX64 | darn, thought i found something, ill keep looking. |
| 05:23.34 | IriX64 | it's sorta like fishing, you know, sometimes you have to throw it back :) |
| 05:44.16 | brlcad | er.. it's not missing from any of my sources |
| 05:44.30 | brlcad | maybe you accidentally deleted it at some point |
| 05:44.49 | IriX64 | could be, i shoot myself in the foot regularly :) |
| 05:45.12 | brlcad | why you'd be messing with that particular macro is curious (and semi-dangerous) |
| 05:45.17 | IriX64 | but fact remains mines fixed. |
| 05:45.39 | IriX64 | told you terra crashed mged now it doesn't. |
| 05:45.41 | IriX64 | ty. |
| 05:47.18 | brlcad | yeah, I heard -- excellent |
| 05:47.28 | brlcad | you applied the same patch, or updated your sources to cvs? |
| 05:47.46 | IriX64 | i don't have cvs, i patched my code. |
| 05:47.57 | IriX64 | err your code :) |
| 05:48.03 | brlcad | your code |
| 05:48.17 | brlcad | it's open source |
| 05:48.20 | brlcad | it's your code too |
| 05:48.26 | IriX64 | ty |
| 05:49.06 | IriX64 | say is that tank car military property or can images of it be posted in public places? |
| 05:50.16 | brlcad | heh, if it's something you have .. then it's open sourced |
| 05:50.31 | IriX64 | just want to be sure. |
| 05:50.43 | brlcad | I *think* all of the geometry files are BSD'd (and if not BSD'd then LGPLd) |
| 05:50.49 | brlcad | as are all the images |
| 05:50.58 | IriX64 | good to know. |
| 05:51.32 | brlcad | which tank car anyways? |
| 05:51.45 | brlcad | tank_car.g? |
| 05:51.48 | IriX64 | geometric solutions its in your examples. |
| 05:51.53 | IriX64 | thats the one. |
| 05:51.54 | brlcad | ahh, yes |
| 05:54.16 | brlcad | COPYING says most of the geometry models are BSD licensed, so you can probably go with that unless the geometry file has data that says otherwise (which none do) |
| 05:55.11 | IriX64 | thanks for clarifying, im not gonna distribute them, just put them up for friends to see whats possible with BRL-CAD. |
| 05:55.51 | IriX64 | should have looked in copying duh. :) |
| 05:55.51 | brlcad | alas the best cool stuff can't be put into db/ |
| 05:56.21 | IriX64 | like stryker? :) |
| 05:56.26 | brlcad | damn national security interests and classification mumbo jumbo ;) |
| 05:56.33 | IriX64 | heh |
| 06:11.09 | brlcad | IriX64: you'll need this next update |
| 06:11.41 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_dsp.c: whoa that's a big typo. dsp_name is a struct bu_vls.. have to get the address to check/print it. |
| 07:03.22 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 19:43.29 | IriX64 | www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 <==== I photon mapped a tank car :) |
| 19:54.29 | brlcad | that actually looks better than I would have expected |
| 19:55.08 | IriX64 | not too shaby is all i have to say, 20 minutes to complete. |
| 19:55.55 | IriX64 | running benchmark right now, out of curiosity. |
| 19:58.19 | IriX64 | not bad, 100% cpu usage user time, glitches to 20% kernal time. |
| 20:03.55 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/381345 <--- if you're interested in a make benchmark here. |
| 20:13.01 | ``Erik | but, uh |
| 20:13.01 | ``Erik | whoa |
| 20:13.05 | ``Erik | 3 vgr's??? |
| 20:13.27 | ``Erik | wait, no, heh, 1234 vgr's |
| 20:13.42 | IriX64 | wonky eh ? :) |
| 20:13.51 | ``Erik | still awfully slow |
| 20:14.03 | IriX64 | ahh well tis a home puter after all. |
| 20:14.19 | IriX64 | helps develop patience.:) |
| 20:17.18 | IriX64 | heh maybe the numbers wrapped. |
| 20:17.47 | ``Erik | unlikely |
| 20:17.53 | IriX64 | true. |
| 20:18.03 | ``Erik | but from the results you posted, you forgot "--enable-optimized" |
| 20:18.23 | IriX64 | debug is in there too. |
| 20:18.26 | ``Erik | read lines 125-127 |
| 20:18.36 | ``Erik | they tel you how to do it "right" |
| 20:18.54 | IriX64 | just ran it out of curiousity, Im not trying to set a speed record here. |
| 20:19.27 | ``Erik | that's cool, but if you want to compare the vgr number to anything, you really need to run it "the right way" |
| 20:20.01 | IriX64 | as i said... |
| 20:20.16 | ``Erik | but from my seat, even fi you scored a million vgr's, that's not hte part that impresses me |
| 20:20.24 | IriX64 | not interested in a bigger one comparison :) |
| 20:20.30 | ``Erik | there are fugly-arsed winderz2k decorations on that window.... |
| 20:20.48 | ``Erik | not exactly the most native of OS's :) that it ran at all is pretty impressive |
| 20:21.16 | IriX64 | yeah well not all os's are created equeal. |
| 20:21.24 | ``Erik | given my recent cygwin foibles, I may be begging y ou to write up a windows howto ;) |
| 20:21.57 | IriX64 | hah press start->shutdown->turn computer off is your best bet ;) |
| 20:22.22 | ``Erik | if you weren't talking about it, I wouldn't have even attmpted a cygwin build *shrug* but I am a frakin' portability whore, so I trek to the ugly often :) |
| 20:23.03 | IriX64 | heh you need to replace gcc with one that wasn't created "specially" for cygwin. |
| 20:23.34 | ``Erik | <-- has both a full cygwin and a full mingw path |
| 20:24.10 | ``Erik | I made several sysV compablity commits on friday, if you didn't notice.... |
| 20:24.23 | IriX64 | uhh, no I didn't. |
| 20:24.30 | ``Erik | and I intend to get it "working" on cygwin, then on mingw... |
| 20:24.32 | ``Erik | and,y 'know |
| 20:24.53 | ``Erik | my boss who would argue against the effort... can go fuck herself. |
| 20:24.55 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 20:25.19 | IriX64 | heh she'll fire you ``Erik :) |
| 20:25.59 | ``Erik | yea, uh |
| 20:26.04 | ``Erik | these days |
| 20:26.10 | ``Erik | I can find another job readily enough. |
| 20:26.27 | IriX64 | she may "invite" you to. |
| 20:26.47 | IriX64 | ``Erik... |
| 20:27.27 | IriX64 | i've been working with Cygwin, since Cgnus Solutions first unveiled it, you want a copy of the arvive I started with? |
| 20:27.39 | IriX64 | archive too. |
| 20:28.08 | IriX64 | Cygnus too. |
| 20:30.13 | IriX64 | for instance you use a batfile to run bash, me i simply run login. |
| 20:30.58 | IriX64 | which reminds me I've gotta fix my path.. |
| 20:31.55 | ``Erik | hrm, no? :) |
| 20:32.08 | ``Erik | I've been using cygwin since, ummmm, '98? |
| 20:32.18 | ``Erik | but infrequently and with much pain |
| 20:32.26 | ``Erik | I'm a *nix user by heart |
| 20:34.15 | IriX64 | hah OS/2 is what I really like but alas... |
| 20:34.50 | IriX64 | btw i really did get warp 4 up on vmware. |
| 21:02.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: incrTcl prior to 3.3 apparently didn't provide ITK_VERSION, so accommodate. also quell warning about basename() taking non-const paths on linux. |
| 21:10.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the emmintrin.h header for g_brep's vector code; tcl needs libm on linux; bu/bn/rt are tied to tcl |
| 21:11.37 | bjorkBSD | what's so great about os/2, IriX64? |
| 21:12.09 | IriX64 | brlcad: theres something funny about kern.argmax in configure.ac too. |
| 21:12.39 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD: it runs my pm bbs :) |
| 21:12.55 | bjorkBSD | pm bbs? |
| 21:13.06 | bjorkBSD | surely there's no one left on the bbs-verse is there? |
| 21:13.28 | ``Erik | os/2 had its advantages... back in the day... |
| 21:13.58 | bjorkBSD | i thought os/2 was ms-windowslike... |
| 21:14.28 | ``Erik | os/2 was a variant of MS-DOS that provided omfg real OS like facilities... |
| 21:14.40 | ``Erik | I think w2k was enouhg to supercede it |
| 21:15.07 | ``Erik | bear in mind, we're talkin' 1985 vs 2000... |
| 21:15.56 | ``Erik | ibm and ms worked on a joint project, got pissed at eachother and went their seperate ways... it took ms 15 yrs to hit the same quality metric as ibm |
| 21:16.43 | bjorkBSD | ibm is a much larger company. |
| 21:16.59 | bjorkBSD | but it's remarkable that they entrusted their early efforts to a start up... |
| 21:17.05 | ``Erik | depends on how you quntify it |
| 21:17.22 | ``Erik | I mean, these days, msft as almost 3x the market cap |
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| 21:18.17 | brlcad | IriX64: there is no kern.argmax in configure.ac |
| 21:20.37 | bjorkBSD | and who still uses BBSes? |
| 21:23.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: apparently some linux systems don't have emmintrin.h |
| 21:24.03 | ``Erik | expecially ones that aren't running on x86 procs |
| 21:24.27 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: common.h comes before all system headers. wasn't able to find an alternative (though I didn't look really hard) for emmintrin.h, so if the header doesn't exist don't do the x86 vector foo. |
| 21:25.35 | iday | the weird thing is that SSE2 and GNUC must be defined - so it's likely a gcc issue |
| 21:25.55 | iday | well - maybe not |
| 21:25.58 | brlcad | they were both defined |
| 21:26.11 | brlcad | yet not that header |
| 21:26.12 | iday | trying to remember where emmintrin.h is located |
| 21:26.23 | iday | thought it was in gcc dir, but maybe not |
| 21:26.53 | iday | on the mac it is... |
| 21:27.12 | brlcad | try a build on either of the linux server twins |
| 21:27.47 | iday | "twins" ? |
| 21:27.53 | brlcad | on/off |
| 21:28.00 | iday | I'm not saying I don't believe you |
| 21:28.08 | iday | i just looked for the file on the server twins |
| 21:28.18 | iday | it's not there... but it's a gcc issue i say! |
| 21:28.35 | iday | on every system that has it - it's in a gcc directory |
| 21:28.35 | brlcad | looks like it might be a gcc 4 thing |
| 21:28.40 | iday | no |
| 21:28.45 | iday | erg has gcc 3.x |
| 21:29.38 | iday | "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/3.4.3/include/emmintrin.h" |
| 21:30.11 | iday | "/usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin8/4.0.1/include/emmintrin.h" |
| 21:30.21 | iday | argh |
| 21:31.25 | iday | but it *could* be a gcc version issue |
| 21:32.13 | iday | doesn't change the check though: no emmintrin, no sse2. at least not without gcc builtins |
| 21:32.14 | IriX64 | brlcad search for kern, its in the bsd stuff. |
| 21:32.29 | brlcad | almost guaranteed to be a version issue.. it's not a partial gcc install |
| 21:32.45 | brlcad | IriX64: I searched for kern, there is no reference to kern in configure.ac |
| 21:33.03 | brlcad | *configure.AC* .. maybe you're looking at configure |
| 21:33.16 | IriX64 | err sorry quite right. |
| 21:33.18 | brlcad | iday: there is mmintrin.h and xmmintrin.h that apparently preceeded it |
| 21:33.27 | brlcad | http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/gcc/gcc/config/i386/emmintrin.h?rev=1.18&root=gcc&view=log |
| 21:33.44 | brlcad | only been around since 2003, gcc 3 predates that by quite a bit iirc |
| 21:34.54 | iday | xmm is sse, mm is mmx, emm is sse2 |
| 21:34.58 | brlcad | looks like it was added circa 3.3 |
| 21:35.24 | iday | that would probably be about right - pIVs were the first with sse2 i think |
| 21:35.44 | iday | course - the intrinsics were most likely added later still |
| 21:35.53 | iday | (everyone used asm before that) |
| 21:35.55 | brlcad | on/off have gcc 3.2.3 |
| 21:36.04 | iday | yah |
| 21:36.11 | iday | funny that on/off define SSE2 |
| 21:36.20 | iday | but gcc may have the builtins, but not the intrinsics |
| 21:37.06 | brlcad | pretty sure the hardware supports it, probably one of the earliest impl's |
| 21:37.17 | brlcad | being xeon and all |
| 21:38.19 | brlcad | either way, just needed a lil extra so it doesn't fail compile.. don't really care if something that old actually uses it or not myself ;) |
| 21:47.58 | iday | yeah - i don't care either - just procrastinating on my homework |
| 21:48.52 | iday | sorry 'bout the bug though - what can I say - I'm a Crappy Coder ® |
| 22:18.26 | IriX64 | brlcad: sorry bout that. |
| 22:21.44 | IriX64 | +it. |
| 22:24.31 | IriX64 | here's an idea, transparent task bar for windows xppro;) |
| 22:25.55 | IriX64 | " I don't know, but I been told, if you serve you'll never grow old";) |
| 22:35.56 | IriX64 | would it be so hard to put a ls command in mged? |
| 22:46.43 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 22:55.45 | ``Erik | mged has a ls command... |
| 23:01.06 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: interesting this worked before.. need tcl.h before tclInt.h |
| 23:03.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: linux needs libxss too for tk |
| 23:04.10 | brlcad | if you want a shell ls, "exec ls" in mged, else it's a listing of geometry |
| 23:09.04 | IriX64 | ty |
| 23:10.05 | IriX64 | works, thanks. you could have said see the docs :) |
| 23:21.38 | ``Erik | hehehehe "rtfm"? :D |
| 23:38.27 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: tclcad needs to come before the others so it can resolve tk/Xss symbols |
| 00:25.23 | IriX64 | ``Erik rtfkm = read the finest kind manual :) |
| 00:28.04 | IriX64 | you think your basement technology is slow... I wound up with 481.80 rays/sec (wallclock) on this last shot. :) |
| 00:31.53 | ``Erik | my basement gear is very old and slow. |
| 00:32.24 | ``Erik | I mean. 850mhz athlon with 384m ram is hardly a scream machine |
| 00:33.56 | IriX64 | whole lotta commands in mged. |
| 00:35.33 | IriX64 | dir |
| 00:36.09 | IriX64 | sorry... creepy child that I am. :) |
| 00:41.52 | brlcad | ``Erik: that can't be the slowest you still have? |
| 00:44.00 | Twingy | demon plane is 50% restored |
| 00:44.12 | brlcad | i think my slowest is an old full tower 486 66Mhz |
| 00:44.53 | brlcad | with a working 5.25" *and the glorious "turbo" button |
| 00:45.14 | Twingy | were you one of the cool kids that changed it to say "Hi" and "Lo" |
| 00:45.30 | Twingy | I remember spending like 3 hours one evening figuring out the jumpers to put custom message |
| 00:45.31 | brlcad | heh, no .. not that "cool" |
| 00:45.58 | brlcad | there is no message actually, it's a custom case, the button is unlabeled |
| 00:46.06 | brlcad | just clicks |
| 00:52.16 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/.cvsignore: ignore the generated files |
| 01:30.01 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 03:12.24 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/Makefile.am: |
| 03:12.24 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: even if linking against a system tcl, incrtcl needs access to tcl's private |
| 03:12.24 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: headers in order to compile (tclInt.h in particular). this fixes compilation |
| 03:12.24 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: error reported in sf bug 1672166 (Build attempts to use non-public Tcl header, |
| 03:12.25 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: reported by Andrew P. Lentvorski, Jr. - bsder). |
| 03:40.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/Makefile.am: one per line cppflags |
| 03:40.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/generic/Makefile.am: |
| 03:40.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: even if linking against a system tcl, incrtk needs access to tcl's private |
| 03:40.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: headers in order to compile (tclInt.h in particular). this fixes compilation |
| 03:40.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: error reported in sf bug 1672166 (Build attempts to use non-public Tcl header, |
| 03:40.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: reported by Andrew P. Lentvorski, Jr. - bsder). |
| 03:56.07 | *** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 04:15.00 | Twingy | about 90 minutes worth of work left on the demon plane before it can fly again |
| 04:15.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/configure tk/unix/configure): recursive autogen.sh/autoreconf works with ac_config_subdirs, so configure is properly regenerated. don't need/want it in cvs since it's repeatedly updated. |
| 04:17.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: typo, missing trailing slash |
| 04:53.48 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667286.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:59.35 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 05:28.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 05:28.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: improve the version number processing so that older oddities like automake |
| 05:28.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 1.4-p6 are better parsed and compared as that the old version doesn't sneak in |
| 05:28.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: as 1.46 but as 1.4.6 instead. add a verbose debug line so it's more obvious |
| 05:28.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: what's being compared. |
| 05:34.13 | PrezKennedy | crazy programmers working late nights |
| 05:35.58 | brlcad | howdy señor kennedy |
| 05:36.12 | brlcad | it's not late |
| 05:39.18 | PrezKennedy | not terribly late... but wouldnt catch me doing IT stuff at this hour unless the building was on fire |
| 05:39.20 | PrezKennedy | :-) |
| 05:40.48 | *** join/#brlcad cad95 (n=48b9fdc9@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 05:47.24 | cad95 | hey, man, I just installed brlcad and it works great, but i have a common question... |
| 05:51.45 | brlcad | hopefully someone will have a common answer ;) |
| 05:52.17 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: if the building was on fire, I think that's one of the few times you *wouldn't* catch me doing IT stuff |
| 05:53.08 | PrezKennedy | haha IT as in "I Take" stuff |
| 05:53.11 | cad95 | can I script an animation without compiling a c program? |
| 05:54.22 | brlcad | cad95: yes, it's a bit arduous, but doable |
| 05:54.32 | cad95 | ok |
| 05:55.15 | brlcad | there are at least two animation tutorials, a more extensive one on the website in report format and a shorter one that was posted to the brlcad-users mailing list several months back |
| 05:55.40 | brlcad | they have different approaches/complexities, depending on what exactly you need |
| 05:56.18 | brlcad | but basically they both hinge around either capturing keyframes in mged, and/or rendering frames with one of the raytracers |
| 05:57.29 | cad95 | that is what I need |
| 05:57.29 | cad95 | thank you |
| 05:57.31 | brlcad | clock (one of the guys usually in here but not at the moment) recently made some nifty animations of a model he made that he posted to http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php |
| 05:58.52 | brlcad | one of the more common simple scripting approaches is to use rt with the -a -e options (for azimuth and elevation), rendering to files from a script and then compositing them with your favorite movie encoder |
| 05:59.34 | brlcad | or saving keyframes in mged using various commands like aet, saveview, size, etc |
| 06:00.46 | brlcad | if you need to go the mged route (because it overs considerable more control over the view manipulation), it's often useful to note that you can run any single mged command from a shell script like: mged -c file.g some_object some_command |
| 06:00.55 | cad95 | i'll probly go with the composite approach |
| 06:01.45 | cad95 | that command sounds useful though |
| 06:01.45 | brlcad | oops, typo .. mged -c file.g some_command |
| 06:01.50 | brlcad | you don't specify an object |
| 06:01.58 | brlcad | e.g. mged -c file.g tops |
| 06:02.06 | brlcad | mged -c file.g ls some_object |
| 06:04.00 | brlcad | for object in `mged -c db.g ls` ; do rt -o file${object}.pix db.g $object ; pix-png file${object}.pix > file${object}.png ; rm -f file${object}.pix ; done |
| 06:04.38 | brlcad | just another example using mged and rt together.. renders every single object in the database to a png file |
| 06:04.55 | brlcad | not very practical or useful, of course, but gives you the idea hopefully |
| 06:05.22 | cad95 | ya, sure |
| 06:06.14 | cad95 | i'm not used to the varables but i can manage directing a file with a list |
| 06:08.39 | brlcad | you can also do that exact same operation entirely in mged given mged's command line is a full tcl shell |
| 06:10.16 | cad95 | should i worry about classified information on the web reguarding brlcad?\ |
| 06:11.23 | Maloeran | If it's on the web, I don't think it's classified ;) |
| 06:12.28 | cad95 | i'm just asking because the first thing i ran into on the mailing list was a title that said unclassified in all upercase |
| 06:12.43 | cad95 | i don't know what that's about but it kind of made me think |
| 06:22.51 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 06:42.59 | brlcad | apparently less than a week |
| 06:45.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix/ (Makefile.in configure.in): tcl/tk doesn't use automake so have to encourage 'make all' to work under IRIX make |
| 07:08.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: save problem as earlier, need to find private tcl/tk headers even if linking against system that doesn't have them installed |
| 07:24.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclInt.h: include common.h so that we avoid tcl's compat headers (this wouldn't be an issue if we let incrtcl run it's configure) |
| 07:28.59 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: itk needs access to tcl/tk private headers (time to consider moving this to ITK_CPPFLAGS) |
| 07:30.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (main.c tcl.c): remove the #include of the private tclInt.h header .. "shouldn't" need it |
| 07:32.09 | brlcad | so there obviously are still some issues, but it's starting to come together finally |
| 07:33.09 | brlcad | have mac and linux successfully compiling and testing now |
| 07:33.58 | brlcad | now working on irix and bsd (which might be done, all good so far) .. and once those two are passing... |
| 07:39.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: hm, should be the last one that uses itk and needs to be able to find the internal headers |
| 12:53.16 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.10) | |
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| 17:46.54 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/382469 <==== your code behaving itself ;) |
| 17:48.38 | IriX64 | brlcad: thanks for the fixed g_dsp.c, mged no longer crashes. |
| 17:50.24 | IriX64 | terra.g is.... unique, should keep it around for testing things like that. |
| 18:14.08 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/382497 <=== my code behaving itself. |
| 18:21.17 | IriX64 | a 44k hello world program, ouch :) |
| 18:47.38 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/382536 <=== your fix is good, thats terra.g opening up and it even displays it on the graphics screen brlcad. |
| 19:13.19 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/382563 <=== rt too see. |
| 19:26.33 | IriX64 | Gemetric solutions properly credited for their Tankcar now. |
| 19:26.40 | IriX64 | Geometric too. |
| 19:26.49 | IriX64 | on my space i mean. |
| 19:27.17 | IriX64 | should i include the phone number as in the title of the drawing? |
| 20:08.35 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-117.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:53.33 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.178.78) | |
| 22:05.11 | brlcad | no, the phone number is now defunct |
| 22:05.16 | brlcad | (and should be removed.. hm) |
| 22:06.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/tank_car.asc: remove the old antiquated/obsolete/defunct GSI phone number. |
| 22:20.19 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: don't use TclFormatInt() so we can avoid using the private tclInt.h header. the routine is just a macro wrapper around sprintf anyways. |
| 22:23.43 | brlcad | "not matching up" means what? |
| 22:24.28 | brlcad | it could have to be the two fixes from last night to get things working with irix make, but I've gotten a pass on bsd since |
| 22:24.40 | brlcad | maybe something since then |
| 22:33.24 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/37754 |
| 22:53.22 | brlcad | ``Erik: bizarre failure, but doesn't look like anything cad's doing wrong .. if anything sounds like cruft from a previous build confusing autoconf, probably due to the configure.in update in src/other/tcl/unix |
| 23:15.39 | ``Erik | Found GNU Autoconf version 2.59 |
| 23:15.39 | ``Erik | Found GNU Automake version 1.9.6 |
| 23:15.39 | ``Erik | Found GNU Libtool version 1.5.22 |
| 23:15.57 | ``Erik | this is on a quad opteron running fbsd... doing an out of dir build |
| 00:05.48 | ``Erik | heh, nice... |
| 00:05.49 | ``Erik | Working on someone else code is something many application programmers realy suck at. Also they think using the latest cool tricks that just came out in the latest language spec or the new compiler supports it so it's really Cool. F*ck them! These guys need to be slapped up side the head a few times. |
| 00:05.54 | ``Erik | http://www.unixprogram.com/churchofbsd/ |
| 00:11.49 | ``Erik | Moving to Linux is like getting poked in the eye with a stick. It hurts and I can't see where I am going. |
| 00:11.50 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 00:19.11 | ``Erik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6P0hhoLTak ... |
| 01:47.58 | Twingy | NARF = Not Almost Ready to Fly |
| 01:49.17 | louipc | He's a damned good guitarist though |
| 02:13.00 | ``Erik | just a little odd |
| 03:24.42 | *** join/#brlcad Doubtttt (i=Me@201009037033.user.veloxzone.com.br) | |
| 03:24.53 | Doubtttt | 6,15hi |
| 03:25.04 | Doubtttt | 6,15anyone can help me? |
| 03:26.24 | Doubtttt | hey |
| 03:26.35 | Doubtttt | 6,15jack SWPadnos Twingy louipc Maloeran deltazap dtidrow_work CIA-7 b0ef @brlcad ``Erik archivist ibot |
| 03:28.40 | louipc | ehlo |
| 03:42.15 | louipc | greetings |
| 04:13.40 | brlcad | that was rather annoying |
| 04:21.10 | louipc | colours? |
| 04:34.07 | brlcad | mebbie |
| 04:56.41 | deltazap | that was rather random as well |
| 05:02.24 | louipc | actually she /msgd me, so I answered her that way |
| 05:05.16 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168055364.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 13:39.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: |
| 13:39.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: Additional mutex protection for sessions. open_session now always returns session #0. This will work until we start using dynamic geometry. At |
| 13:39.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: that point a better session managment scheme will be required to insure that sessions with dynamic geometry get associated with the correct users. |
| 14:46.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 11 dirs): include SYSV where needed (cygwin) |
| 16:19.02 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: remove "extra qualifications" that g++4 complains about (still works on g++3) |
| 16:32.55 | *** join/#brlcad cad69 (n=4d7a56aa@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 17:37.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/iwidgets.tcl.in: use the iwidgets version, not the BRL-CAD version |
| 17:49.17 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 17:49.17 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
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| 19:32.56 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:03.45 | IriX64 | would dearly love to see rise but.. |
| 20:04.06 | IriX64 | till i get sdl installed properly sigh. |
| 20:30.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: IRIX provides basename/dirname in the libgen library. checking for the header requires -lgen as a LIBS, so add custom checks for dirname/basename functionality |
| 20:32.13 | brlcad | IriX64: no, they should be == |
| 20:32.21 | brlcad | same goes for {}'s |
| 20:33.00 | brlcad | if there were syntactic problems like those in bu.h, things would be failing compilation miserably all over the place |
| 20:33.52 | brlcad | you're not likely going to find syntax bugs in that file .. your run-time issues are logic issue elsewhere in the code |
| 20:34.15 | IriX64 | ty i'll keep looking. |
| 20:35.20 | IriX64 | any ideas on how to get sdl installed on *my system :) |
| 20:36.01 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/dirname.c: ws |
| 20:47.32 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/basename.c: add an initial stub at a bu_basename() to complement bu_dirname() for portable path processing. |
| 20:48.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_basename, make note to make dirname return something const |
| 20:49.35 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: set magic for new points in a metaball cloud |
| 20:49.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add basename.c to the build |
| 20:49.44 | ``Erik | irix: go to libsdl.org, find the appropriate binary bundles (mingw32 or cygwin), and follow the associated instructions very carefully |
| 20:50.03 | ``Erik | heh, looking to undo all my sysv link crap? |
| 20:55.30 | IriX64 | was just browsing man, nothing serious :) |
| 21:03.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): map the 'fast' target to 'all-am' to allow 'fast' build to succeed without twisting up tcl and tk too much |
| 21:05.48 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use bu_basename() instead of basename() to encapsulate the portability. don't need libgen.h header any more. |
| 21:17.16 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: fix header confusion |
| 21:20.55 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 21:21.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/compnet.c libtexture/texture_image.c): add missing headers |
| 22:11.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: |
| 22:11.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: there's a bu_basename to match the bu_dirname now, so sysv compat can go away |
| 22:11.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: (though I'm not sure basename() was part of sysv api?) .. the function signature |
| 22:11.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: was also causing an irix build failure due to incompatible constness. |
| 22:16.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_tree.c tree.c): bu_basename replaces rt_basename, ws updates |
| 22:16.59 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: remove basename.c from libsysv |
| 22:19.32 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/tree.c): remove rt_basename. its functionality was merged into libbu as bu_basename. |
| 22:23.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: use bu_basename instead of basename, no longer need libgen.h |
| 22:23.15 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/Makefile.am: need libbu |
| 22:24.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: no longer compile basename.c |
| 22:27.16 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: no longer need basename.c, replaced by libbu functionality as bu_basename() in src/libbu/basename.c |
| 22:28.32 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: use bu_basename(), no longer need libgen.h |
| 22:30.16 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add basename.c to the windows build system |
| 23:00.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): make sure the generated build files are either ignored or deleted |
| 23:03.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c setup.c): should no longer need the tcl-private tclInt.h header... (definitely needs more testing, but progress towards NOT using it) |
| 23:34.14 | brlcad | welp, that only leaves the massive reworking of LIBS ... |
| 23:40.09 | IriX64 | you've been busy :) |
| 23:41.54 | IriX64 | well it says adrt support this time, lets see. |
| 23:57.29 | IriX64 | brlcad: i'm a little unsure i should be using the formal submit bug thing, simply because my system is "strange". |
| 23:59.09 | IriX64 | May I trust the channel to tell me if its a valid problem? |
| 00:26.25 | IriX64 | i'll simply pastebin the symptoms, and if anybody has time, can you comment? |
| 01:07.26 | IriX64 | is opengl support new tobrlcad as of 7.8.4? or has it always been there and im missing it? |
| 02:02.07 | IriX64 | do these tools such as rtedge have a help screen i tried both --help and -h. |
| 03:49.12 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:36.08 | brlcad | IriX64: yes, please report the bug in here first .. you should generally only submit formal bug reports for non-custom configurations problems, and preferably issues that are perfectly repeatable |
| 05:36.33 | brlcad | mention the issue in here first.. I'll let you know when/if you should submit a more formal report |
| 05:37.55 | brlcad | that will generally only be something that I'm fairly confident is a prevalent problem .. like mged crashing on certain inputs .. but NOT build problems -- build problems are rarely bug-report-worthy as they're usually configuration issues or temporary |
| 05:39.57 | brlcad | opengl support has been there for over a decade, whether it's compiled in or not depends on how we feel come release-time (I usually try to disable opengl if I can remember to due to a bug on some platforms) .. again.. it provides no NEW functionality -- it's just a different low-level implementation, one of many that all do the same thing -- don't get caught up on the familiar name |
| 05:40.52 | brlcad | help is provided via manual pages, rarely ever -h --help options .. try "brlman rtedge" |
| 06:01.02 | IriX64 | ty understood. |
| 06:01.40 | IriX64 | found help after i opened the database... manual. |
| 06:06.34 | IriX64 | louipc: Did you ever use OS/2, I quite liked it when I ran it many years ago. |
| 06:07.08 | IriX64 | cept for the runaway swap file thing :) |
| 06:09.30 | IriX64 | visit www.spaces.live.com/IriX64 there a picture of it running there. |
| 06:19.53 | IriX64 | That virtual disk is formmated hpfs. |
| 08:19.45 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:53.39 | clock_ | brlcad: is it OK to define a region as (combination - region)? |
| 08:53.56 | clock_ | For example I have a wall and bolts so I define wall as bricks.c - bolts.r |
| 08:54.08 | clock_ | I mean define wall.r as bricks.c - bolts.r |
| 08:54.13 | clock_ | like there are holes drilled for the bolts |
| 11:12.09 | louipc | IriX64: nope never used it |
| 13:07.12 | *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:11.00 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): TCL was moved to src/other/tcl: include path modified |
| 13:18.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: bu_basename returns a const: variable type fixed (compiler warning) |
| 14:23.18 | brlcad | hello rossberg |
| 14:23.50 | brlcad | clock_: it can be frowned upon, but no -- it's fine to use a region negatively |
| 14:24.06 | brlcad | it'd be an error to use it positiviely below another region |
| 14:25.52 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:33.11 | brlcad | rossberg: interesting inclusion of strlcpy() .. without a doubt wasn't an old System V routine (but as good a place as any to put it), but a curious routine in itself |
| 14:33.35 | rossberg | brlcad: can you compile the current librt/g_brep.cpp? |
| 14:34.15 | rossberg | brlcad: strlcpy can be removed, right? |
| 14:34.33 | brlcad | hm, removed? |
| 14:35.13 | brlcad | rossberg: I can, depends on the platform -- currently know that g_brep fails on irix due to the -msse -msse2 flags but I've got a local fix for that |
| 14:35.40 | brlcad | but it does compile on linux and os x as far as I know at the moment |
| 14:35.55 | brlcad | i had problems compiling it under windows, but hadn't looked into the errors yet |
| 14:37.15 | brlcad | it was easy enough to disable by hand at the time, which was suitable at the time as it's still evolving code |
| 14:37.50 | brlcad | I don't really care if strlcpy stays or is removed.. but I thought you added it? |
| 14:39.51 | rossberg | yes I add it, thats why I'm asking |
| 14:42.09 | rossberg | vector.h, line 42 (the one with friend) looks strange |
| 14:44.50 | brlcad | rossberg: oh, I didn't comment implying to remove strlcpy -- it's fine .. it's just an 'interesting' function is all .. I hadn't seen it in a while |
| 14:45.35 | rossberg | brlcad: however, strlcpy isn't in use any more |
| 14:45.56 | brlcad | which would explain why I haven't seen it in a while :) |
| 14:46.20 | brlcad | iirc, openbsd folks wrote it as a strncpy replacement or somesuch |
| 14:46.34 | ``Erik | brlcad: the dmg of qemu I was talking about yesterday, http://www.kju-app.org/kju/ |
| 14:55.12 | brlcad | impressive |
| 14:55.18 | brlcad | iconic hell, but impressive |
| 14:55.48 | ``Erik | apple+, and fix the top display |
| 14:56.13 | brlcad | Be still fails to detect the cdrom to install.. but I see I have other hardware options to test too |
| 15:02.28 | brlcad | drat, the other PPC hardwares won't even boot from the CD |
| 15:04.32 | brlcad | pretty painless to use though, I like (aside from iconage) |
| 15:05.43 | ``Erik | I haven't figured out clean ways to interface its disk image format, though, I'm not sure if it's a raw disk image or if there's a header or what :/ |
| 15:06.23 | ``Erik | but I only looked for a second *shrug* :) |
| 15:07.30 | brlcad | i don't really care what they do so long as it's easy to get data in/out somehow |
| 15:07.48 | brlcad | the import from virtual pc is interesting |
| 15:08.04 | brlcad | i could use that to import my old images .. |
| 15:09.59 | ``Erik | <-- has script fu to generate raw disk images for his os, not terribly keen on rewriting all that |
| 16:14.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/fast4-g.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 16:14.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: massive restructuring of the code. functions are defined in visibility order so |
| 16:14.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: declarations are unnecessary, functions are made static so they don't collide |
| 16:14.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: with librt's similar (but not identical) importFg4Section.c symbols |
| 16:14.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: (Add_bot_face, do_trid, do_quad, and do_tri functions; grid_pts variable), |
| 16:14.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: rename aforementioned and others with an f4_ prefix just to entirely avoid the |
| 16:14.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: naming confusion, reorder macros, defines, static vars, and functions into |
| 16:19.08 | brlcad | er always attempt to build g_brep.c |
| 16:57.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: have configure check for the -msee and -msse2 gcc options, provide them together as SSE to the makefiles |
| 17:37.28 | brlcad | IriX64: that was fixed in cvs .. and you should probably message me in here if you want me to notice |
| 17:37.35 | brlcad | unless it's a private matter |
| 17:39.11 | IriX64 | where in cvs brlcad? |
| 17:39.41 | brlcad | http://sf.net/projects/brlcad |
| 17:39.45 | IriX64 | im in rise observer i dont see it. |
| 17:39.48 | brlcad | select the 'code' tab |
| 17:40.11 | brlcad | yep, that's a known problem with the source release |
| 17:40.19 | brlcad | was fixed about six months ago |
| 17:40.32 | IriX64 | ty ill get it from rise slave. |
| 17:41.20 | brlcad | there isn't a splash.h in rise slave |
| 17:41.30 | IriX64 | then where? |
| 17:41.36 | brlcad | ... |
| 17:41.38 | brlcad | it's in cvs |
| 17:41.51 | brlcad | it's ONLY in cvs at the moment at least until the next release |
| 17:42.11 | brlcad | don't fear the cvs .. it's not that hard to work with |
| 17:42.15 | IriX64 | hah goof that i am im in the wrong place :) |
| 17:45.53 | IriX64 | btw any guesstimate as to how soon you'll release 7-10? |
| 17:50.22 | brlcad | hopefully within a few days |
| 17:51.57 | brlcad | when someone keeps asking questions about a header and posts urls to frivolous pastebins, that slows things down :P |
| 17:52.17 | IriX64 | heh ``Erik stop doing that ;) |
| 17:53.43 | IriX64 | wouldn't it be nice if this worked -- CFLAGS='-Wl,-Ai386,-OS=freebsd' ./configure ;) |
| 17:55.27 | IriX64 | it would produce messages such ass gcc -Ai386 linker file not used because linking not done. |
| 17:57.16 | IriX64 | err input file. |
| 17:58.04 | brlcad | yes, such ass |
| 18:02.07 | IriX64 | the whole project:) |
| 18:02.54 | brlcad | smells like teen spirit |
| 18:04.08 | IriX64 | rosewate and honey :) |
| 18:04.13 | IriX64 | rosewater too |
| 18:10.00 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/385183 <--- im a slow typist but i envision something like this. |
| 18:10.30 | brlcad | I really don't see what the point of that is? |
| 18:10.41 | IriX64 | cross compiling. |
| 18:10.43 | brlcad | those are just error messages |
| 18:10.57 | IriX64 | warnings. |
| 18:11.31 | brlcad | right .. but still a "mistake" nonethelss |
| 18:11.34 | IriX64 | on the link pass there would be no such warning. |
| 18:11.43 | brlcad | you're specifying linker flags to the compiler |
| 18:11.51 | brlcad | when they should just be specified to the linker |
| 18:11.56 | IriX64 | passing them on to the linker. |
| 18:12.09 | brlcad | make them LDFLAGS instead |
| 18:12.18 | IriX64 | can use either. |
| 18:12.40 | brlcad | you "can", but one is erroneous.. hence all the 'warnings' |
| 18:12.50 | IriX64 | errr true. |
| 18:13.02 | IriX64 | but the point is gcc doen't crash. |
| 18:13.15 | IriX64 | have to support -Wl |
| 18:14.48 | brlcad | a lot of things don't crash gcc .. that was the point? |
| 18:15.04 | IriX64 | compatibility. |
| 18:15.20 | IriX64 | so you can take anybodys project and go. |
| 18:15.39 | brlcad | go where? |
| 18:16.16 | IriX64 | hopefully what you're trying to compile and link for :) |
| 18:16.46 | brlcad | why not just compile and link there? |
| 18:17.31 | IriX64 | its fraught ;) |
| 19:13.43 | IriX64 | fraught with danger... there's just no arguing with a word like fraught... go see the movie. :) |
| 19:14.05 | IriX64 | pooh's heffalump movie. |
| 19:17.11 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/385269 issues remain sigh. |
| 19:19.53 | ``Erik | uhhhh, yeah, uh, that'd be expected |
| 19:20.11 | ``Erik | if you run "file.o", it'll tell you it's a PE file |
| 19:20.14 | ``Erik | er |
| 19:20.18 | ``Erik | "file pret.o" |
| 19:20.34 | ``Erik | just because you ASK it to compile another format does NOT make it a cross-compiler or cross-linker |
| 19:20.58 | IriX64 | man pret.o is an object file cannot run it. |
| 19:21.08 | ``Erik | uh huh... but it's a PE object file |
| 19:21.11 | ``Erik | not an ELF object file |
| 19:21.25 | ``Erik | you have the command "file.exe", right? seriously, use it... a lot... |
| 19:21.36 | IriX64 | ty |
| 19:23.27 | IriX64 | the entry point of any executable examines system you're running on and says " i am an OS/2 pm app" for instance. |
| 19:24.04 | IriX64 | but it will *always run on *my system. |
| 19:24.16 | IriX64 | because i like to test the code too. |
| 19:24.26 | IriX64 | meaning the project i compiled. |
| 19:24.40 | IriX64 | _main __main. |
| 19:24.56 | IriX64 | my pret.exe is 44k. |
| 19:25.13 | IriX64 | and its just a hello world program. |
| 19:25.36 | ``Erik | actually, the system examines the first couple of bytes of an application you ask to run (the "file magic", what file.exe shows you a human version), if it's something the kernel binfmt stuff groks, it'll extract the entry point. |
| 19:26.06 | IriX64 | so its doable? |
| 19:26.08 | ``Erik | "main" means nothing to PE, ELF, QMAGIC, MZ, ... it's actually a stub for libc to cope with |
| 19:26.09 | ``Erik | no |
| 19:26.33 | ``Erik | because the second you try to bind a library or make a system call, it'll be confused. |
| 19:27.08 | IriX64 | how there are effectivly 2 exe's in there. |
| 19:27.30 | ``Erik | take, for example, printing something at a kernel level... using the write(2) function (syscall)... on your machine, you'll move things into registers, then call interrupt 0x80 |
| 19:27.54 | IriX64 | interrupt 80? |
| 19:27.56 | ``Erik | sorry, interrupt 0x21... windows/dos uses int 0x21 |
| 19:28.06 | ``Erik | linux will move things into registers and call interrupt 0x80 |
| 19:28.19 | ``Erik | x86 bsd will move things onto the stack and call interrupt 0x80 |
| 19:28.26 | ``Erik | they all talk very differently |
| 19:28.27 | IriX64 | the linux code is part of the file ``Erik, itll be right. |
| 19:29.03 | IriX64 | windows+linux you run the one for *target system unless running on mine. |
| 19:29.19 | IriX64 | i screwed up and put my machine first. |
| 19:29.33 | IriX64 | should have put target first but ... |
| 19:30.20 | ``Erik | unless your kernel binary format reader understands the format your file is, it should just stop and say "I don't know this". If it DOES know what format it is, it can either ATTEMPT to work with it, or say it isn't doable. |
| 19:30.37 | IriX64 | agreed. |
| 19:30.39 | ``Erik | if I try to run a mac ELF binary on my x86 fbsd machine, it'll say "wrong ISA, go away" |
| 19:30.52 | ``Erik | if I try to run my fbsd ELF binary on my windows machinee, it'll say "uh? not even gonna try" |
| 19:30.55 | ``Erik | and visa versa |
| 19:31.43 | IriX64 | well if you get some of my stuff, let me know if it says cannot execute binary file :) |
| 19:31.49 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:32.14 | ``Erik | you can see it for yourself... use the "file.exe" program to tell you what your file is |
| 19:32.37 | IriX64 | but if systems play by the rules, I still maintain its doable |
| 19:32.49 | ``Erik | on my 'workhorse' machine, file tells me this: mged: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 19:33.12 | ``Erik | and my desktop says: mged: Mach-O executable ppc |
| 19:33.33 | IriX64 | the object file is a MS Windows COFF intel 80386 object file. |
| 19:35.17 | ``Erik | ok, so it's a COFF/PE x86 windows binary... the only systems I know of that will use those files are: windows, the "wine" abi translator, and uhhh, what's the name of it... skyos? |
| 19:35.38 | ``Erik | OS/2 used a COFF variant, but was 16b only, I think :/ |
| 19:36.03 | ``Erik | not skyos, reactos, my bad |
| 19:36.24 | ``Erik | http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html |
| 19:37.52 | IriX64 | gonna go hunt up *your file command, mine sucks... bbiab. |
| 19:40.52 | ``Erik | $ file.exe /bin/ls.exe |
| 19:40.54 | ``Erik | /bin/ls.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable not relocatable |
| 19:51.26 | brlcad | you'd think after doing this for the third or fourth time over the years, woulda scripted something better by now |
| 19:53.12 | brlcad | 10 change libadd 20 change configure.ac 30 compile 40 change ldadd 50 observe error 60 goto 30 400 times |
| 19:53.44 | ``Erik | you'da thunk |
| 19:53.45 | ``Erik | t |
| 19:53.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): include makefile defs, for "depends" target |
| 19:55.18 | ``Erik | all praise buckethead!!! |
| 19:55.18 | brlcad | ack |
| 19:55.28 | brlcad | if you include makefile defs, it'll recurse into unix dir and fail build on a make fast |
| 19:55.49 | ``Erik | eck |
| 19:55.56 | brlcad | that's why those stub rules are there, to halt the recursion |
| 19:56.41 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:57.22 | ``Erik | bett4r? |
| 19:57.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): change depends to depend on all-am to avoid recursive issue |
| 19:58.22 | brlcad | should do the trick |
| 19:59.10 | brlcad | yay, finally on proc-db .. almost done |
| 20:02.18 | brlcad | what sucks nuts is that will probably want/need to do this all over again down the road.. the whole library listing woes stem from having some platforms needing libs to decl and others not wanting .. keeping track at link time that librt implies needing RT, BN, BU, and SYSV on the ldadd for example |
| 20:03.08 | brlcad | *always* .. so you either put that in the lib as a libadd (which now causes woes with static libs and tcl/tk since they're static) or you list during ldadd |
| 20:03.57 | brlcad | anyhow.. this will probably work just fine for now until we hit platform that requires the libs to be decl'd (aix I think) |
| 20:04.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: change dependancy to libfb, SHOULD snarf in tcl if necessary via libbu |
| 20:04.17 | ``Erik | hrmph |
| 20:07.00 | brlcad | with the new layout, that won't necessarily be true any longer -- basically condensing the libadd's down to nothing and pushing the decl's to the link line |
| 20:08.12 | brlcad | e.g. in my version here, libtclcad is only got tclstub left and that would have to be pushed down if anything needed to actually use the stubs interface in app code |
| 20:24.18 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (proc-db/apply-mdb.c lgt/apply-mdb.c): apply-mdb.c is not a procedural database, doesn't belong in proc_db. moved from src/proc_db to src/lgt/. |
| 20:24.54 | brlcad | going to be broken for a couple minutes for that last commit, the makefiles contain too many other changes |
| 20:38.37 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/apply-mdb.c: on second thought, just declare the code obsolete. mat_Open_Db() and friends are nowhere to be found, not worth the effort to find for this simple snippet. |
| 21:18.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/nmgxplode.c: all the rukus about nmgxplode not compiling .. yet the program doesn't do a damn thing. looks like the start of something that was never even fully started. delete the damn turd. |
| 21:22.47 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:47.42 | Maloeran | Ahah, neat |
| 22:02.49 | brlcad | cheese? |
| 22:02.58 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: reorder things in the record to keep like types together (breaks binary compatability with previous metaball primitives) |
| 22:03.17 | ``Erik | something like that |
| 22:13.33 | ``Erik | now that's interesting |
| 22:28.31 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:29.53 | ``Erik | heh, I've never seen programs die from x=malloc(100);x[0]=0;free(x); (while working fine everywhere else) |
| 22:33.54 | ``Erik | ahhhhhh, suddenly a lot more makes sense. heh. edsol is one skeery beast |
| 22:34.56 | brlcad | ``Erik: fyi, bu_malloc and friends are guaranteed to never return NULL so you never have to error check the condition |
| 22:37.49 | Maloeran | ``Erik, under what circumstances? |
| 22:38.37 | Maloeran | The memory returned by malloc() will always be valid. If Linux really is out of memory, it will kill processes, perhaps yours, but the memory will still be valid |
| 22:42.40 | brlcad | Maloeran: that's a rather unrelated statement regarding malloc() .. and behavior specific to linux, not posix |
| 22:43.58 | Maloeran | Yes, it's highly specific to Linux. I'm guessing Erik's stabbing of Tux was related to his malloc() complain |
| 22:43.59 | brlcad | malloc() could just as readily return NULL (and readily will under plenty of situations) even under linux |
| 22:44.06 | brlcad | ahh |
| 22:45.18 | brlcad | he just makes up excuses to jab at stuff like that ;) |
| 22:46.22 | brlcad | my comment was regarding to the commit he made just a little bit ago.. had a bu_malloc() return value checking null.. which it will never be in brl-cad |
| 23:30.12 | ``Erik | I was grousing about an internal crash in free(), actually, int_free() I think? I believe I may've been a little loose around the boundries O:-) |
| 23:39.24 | IriX64 | anybody need a stock gcc for winblows? |
| 23:39.45 | IriX64 | needs cygwin1.dll tho and a couple of others. |
| 23:40.15 | Maloeran | Hrm, people can just download mingw or cygwin for that? |
| 23:40.31 | IriX64 | sure. |
| 23:41.03 | IriX64 | 4.12 neat. |
| 23:41.27 | Maloeran | And due to the nature of windows "security", you'll never find anyone accepting a binary executable for that platform |
| 23:47.09 | IriX64 | haha just playing around, not intented to be serious. |
| 23:47.29 | IriX64 | right now it compiles but i cant find the executable, go figure. |
| 23:56.15 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/385641 <---- have a peek :) |
| 00:07.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/385645 < heres last weeks effort :) |
| 00:09.53 | Maloeran | So you decided to start coding then! Nice, C language? |
| 00:10.00 | IriX64 | am i going to have to go through hoops to find the thread limit on this thing? in os2 you could set your limit up to the max 4095 in config.sys. |
| 00:10.10 | IriX64 | yes C |
| 00:11.21 | Maloeran | There might be no limit but the available system memory |
| 00:12.15 | IriX64 | true, would be nice to know for sure though ie instead of program bombing out. |
| 00:12.32 | Maloeran | You never want to get anywhere near that limit |
| 00:12.53 | Maloeran | Normally, you should have one thread per processor core, perhaps up to a few per core if doing intense socket I/O |
| 00:13.04 | IriX64 | should still know though so you can avoid getting near it. |
| 00:15.05 | *** join/#brlcad DarkMaster (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:15.06 | IriX64 | would be nice if the system had a threshold detewctor, saying something like goof, threads near saturation. :) |
| 00:16.03 | Maloeran | Not quite.. Get count of processors and launch the same count of threads, any piece of software with hundreds of threads is broken |
| 00:16.19 | Maloeran | ( Unless running on some Altix machine, etc. ) |
| 00:16.58 | IriX64 | 100's i opened up 1024 threads on a single core pentium 100 and it ran fine and system still responded beautifulluy. |
| 00:18.01 | Maloeran | Yes, and it's wrong |
| 00:18.10 | Maloeran | You lose performance for no reason |
| 00:18.54 | IriX64 | this was an app that was designed to use threads, there was no great system impact most of the threads were sitting in a wait for something loop. |
| 00:21.10 | IriX64 | can use semaphores to signal, here's your something if you prefer. |
| 00:47.29 | ``Erik | actually, setting the # of threads to be equal to the number of cores can seriously degredate performance on many kinds of apps.. having one more or less is often better... personally, I'm kinda down with 2n-1 for most shtuff |
| 00:47.52 | ``Erik | and there're plenty of good reasons to super-saturate a system with processes or threads... hundres of thousands, millions, even... |
| 00:48.09 | ``Erik | great way to stress the OS if you're working on improving the kernels scheduling or IPC facilities :D |
| 00:48.43 | DarkMaster | i have millions of threads in my shirt :-D |
| 00:53.48 | ``Erik | speaking of straining OS's, time to download haiku, yo |
| 00:54.21 | brlcad | muahaha.. and the fun begins |
| 00:56.11 | Maloeran | Erik, it trashes the cache of the processors, but it's of course a different business when threads are waiting for I/O |
| 00:56.30 | Maloeran | May it be disk I/O for compilation or network I/O for server software |
| 00:56.49 | Maloeran | For pure number crunching, it's really preferable to have exactly one thread per processor core |
| 00:58.49 | Maloeran | Speaking of which... If you were ever wondering, the only reason why the model graph prep isn't scaling with threads is due to the abuse of a global memory mutex for all alloc/free ; I really need to revise my memory manager to work properly with threads and NUMA |
| 00:59.48 | brlcad | if your app is a kernel (whether a userland behemouth or an actual OS kernel), it can be perfectly expected that the threads will have nothing to do with each other, yet there may be N unrelated tasks and only M cores to run them on (where N > M, and N corresponds to at least one thread or process) |
| 01:00.06 | brlcad | the same that holds true in kernel space holds for certain apps too |
| 01:01.02 | Maloeran | Right, I'm assuming that other processes are fairly light in processing time |
| 01:02.13 | Maloeran | Having processes migrate from one core to another seriously harms performance, and it doesn't work too well with proper management of NUMA |
| 01:09.11 | ``Erik | depends on the memory usage of the process... you assume a certain hw usage pattern for that statement... happens to be one appropriate for raytracing... :D |
| 01:10.24 | Maloeran | I'm assuming number crunching software, not I/O software |
| 01:15.06 | ``Erik | if the working data set is very small and pushed out to sysmem fairly often, then a migration will barely hurt... *shrug* |
| 01:17.02 | Maloeran | It's not negligeable, and the "sysmem" might be a memory bank specific to the core the thread was running on |
| 01:17.42 | Maloeran | It's terrible to have a thread running on a different core than the set of cores associated with the memory bank where the thread's stack is |
| 01:18.27 | ``Erik | that totally depends on the architecture, and is a numa specific layout... (which hypertransport is a 'mini-numa' as far as I can tell, so opterons suffer it) |
| 01:18.59 | Maloeran | Linux doesn't easily migrate threads over to a different die than the one that contains the stack memory |
| 01:19.32 | Maloeran | I think it may temporarily do that under bad stress patterns, but execution will tend to stick to the prefered processor die |
| 01:21.36 | ``Erik | slowaris is the same way... neat thing about solaris is that you have tools to attach a thread to a core forcefully (so it CANNOT migrate it off, short of a hotswap cpu being pulled) as well as dedicating a core to a process o.O |
| 01:22.02 | Maloeran | *nods* You have that on Linux as well |
| 01:23.38 | ``Erik | bsd has stronger processor and memory associativity, yes. |
| 01:23.52 | ``Erik | I've said that before :) one of these days, I'll fix fbsd... |
| 01:24.12 | DarkMaster | i was tempted to try PC BSD |
| 01:24.28 | ``Erik | (and it's fbsd, I d'no netbsd or openbsd's guts.... I do know that dragonfly was forked because matt said fbsd was being insanely retarded wrt multiprocessor shtuff |
| 01:24.29 | ``Erik | ) |
| 01:31.09 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:46.57 | ``Erik | huh, vim is in the haiku source |
| 01:51.13 | ``Erik | hum, the dude from 'make magazine' is on colbert report |
| 01:57.39 | ``Erik | no, heh |
| 01:58.05 | ``Erik | http://www.makezine.com/magazine/ |
| 01:58.49 | ``Erik | http://www.makezine.com/ hah |
| 02:01.35 | Maloeran | I think I have some cultural knowledge gaps preventing me to appreciate this |
| 02:24.42 | IriX64 | nice cat |
| 02:25.25 | ``Erik | neato, on my hackintop, everything seems to build but asc2g craps itself in the db/ dir, nifty |
| 02:26.21 | IriX64 | btw thanks for reminding me, dxf-g works, i got a hold of a shuttle dxf (not the acad one) and it converted and rt'ed |
| 02:27.12 | Twingy | I got more r/c shit than I know what to do with now |
| 02:27.55 | Twingy | I've been spending money like it's going out of style |
| 02:34.46 | ``Erik | DEY TUK R JRBS! |
| 02:34.54 | ``Erik | the 'gooback' episode is on o.O |
| 02:34.57 | ``Erik | new episode after it |
| 02:37.43 | Twingy | good episode |
| 02:37.53 | Twingy | I have the firewall on the demon plane |
| 02:38.00 | Twingy | and the t-nuts for the wing bolts |
| 02:38.22 | Twingy | all it needs is some towerkote applied and an engine mounted plus servos installed |
| 02:38.39 | Twingy | and I just happened to have a pair of OS 0.46 LA's not in use |
| 02:39.18 | Twingy | I think I'm going out saturday or sunday weather permitting and flying both planes |
| 02:40.10 | DarkMaster | hey Twingy |
| 02:40.59 | IriX64 | cd ../ |
| 02:41.07 | Twingy | directory not found |
| 02:41.26 | PrezKennedy | C:\WINDOWS> |
| 02:41.28 | IriX64 | heh |
| 02:41.37 | IriX64 | c:\os1/2 |
| 02:42.07 | PrezKennedy | i love windows |
| 02:42.24 | PrezKennedy | keeps the paycheck coming in |
| 02:42.28 | PrezKennedy | only reason |
| 02:42.29 | PrezKennedy | :-) |
| 02:43.05 | IriX64 | mmmmm signature on the check is Bill Gates? |
| 02:43.36 | Twingy | no.. just some tard that thinks windows is awesome |
| 02:43.56 | IriX64 | heh its common, just like mud :P |
| 02:44.04 | PrezKennedy | more of a necessity :( |
| 02:44.20 | PrezKennedy | construction company software BARELY runs on it |
| 02:44.40 | IriX64 | hello world barely runs on it :) |
| 02:45.10 | PrezKennedy | im apathetic long as it works when im using it |
| 02:45.43 | IriX64 | they blew it when they split with IBM. |
| 02:51.40 | IriX64 | gotta go, life calls |
| 04:57.00 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: interesting.. what kind of software? |
| 04:57.38 | brlcad | you could implement the features they need in brl-cad then get them to use that instead, then platform could be anything |
| 04:58.11 | PrezKennedy | haha i saw that coming ;-) |
| 04:58.35 | PrezKennedy | its not the CAD program thats the problem... its the accounting programs and bidding software |
| 04:59.15 | brlcad | hey, "we are borg" .. they could be assimilated too |
| 04:59.48 | PrezKennedy | sounds like emacs |
| 04:59.59 | brlcad | measily accounting programs and bidding software could be directly tied to the construction workflow in the same interface |
| 05:00.20 | brlcad | i bet they pay a pretty penny for that software too |
| 05:00.45 | PrezKennedy | youd win that bet |
| 05:01.24 | PrezKennedy | NOT cheap |
| 05:01.25 | PrezKennedy | :-) |
| 05:01.35 | brlcad | so you reinvent their workflow, save them them 100's of k's per year in overhead and process efficiency (by custom tailoring the interface to the workflow) |
| 05:01.46 | brlcad | before you know it, you'll be VP in charge of IT |
| 05:02.18 | PrezKennedy | i dont wanna be in charge of IT... WAY too stressful a job |
| 05:02.47 | brlcad | so then just be a highly-paid consultant forever ;) |
| 05:02.56 | PrezKennedy | haha |
| 06:13.02 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: allow the procedural example to compile with or without OBJ_BREP, just provide a stubbed run-time error message. |
| 06:21.13 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: restructure the proc-db compilations since they all pretty much need the same libraries. also, minimize all the conditionality around brep_cube so it only toggles whether OBJ_BREP is set or not. |
| 06:54.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: |
| 06:54.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: use []'s instead of .at() for portability.. and with that minor edit, g_brep |
| 06:54.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: actually compiles under irix (gcc) now. the header b0rkage from a couple weeks |
| 06:54.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: ago is apparently /dev/null'd through all the rewrites and changes |
| 07:06.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (33 files in 33 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 07:06.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: whoosh! push BU, BN, and RT (and maybe one or two others) out of library LIBADD |
| 07:06.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: declarations down to application LDADD linkage. this means that there might be |
| 07:06.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: issues to solve again towards being able to generate fully contained/resolved |
| 07:06.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: libraries (e.g. frameworks), but solves the current problem of linking against |
| 07:06.06 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: static tcl/tk libraries portably. duplicate symbols become a problem at link |
| 07:06.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: time (bu, bn, and rt all use tcl). pushing the link specification all the way |
| 09:29.53 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): since basename was removed from libsysv we do not need strlcpy any more |
| 11:02.54 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.135) | |
| 13:44.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-xxx.c: c89 support, declare functions first |
| 13:48.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: need PKG for FB |
| 14:40.55 | ``Erik | wtf |
| 15:13.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): missing libs from the "whoosh" |
| 15:26.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: Missing CFLAGS (tcl/generic). Missing libs. Whoosh. |
| 15:26.41 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (rttherm/Makefile.am util/Makefile.am): missing libs from the "whoosh" |
| 15:35.57 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 15:51.05 | brlcad | you realize that you added pkg twice to most of the bin's in util/ |
| 15:54.35 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tcl/tk have been updated now |
| 15:55.41 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mged now finds its resources more reliably at run-time with the auto_path updates in tclcadAutoPath.c |
| 16:03.01 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874A0E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:04.06 | ``Erik | woops, I did? |
| 16:04.45 | brlcad | likes like a global replace on /{FB}/{FB} ${PKG}/ |
| 16:05.04 | brlcad | where most already had PKG |
| 16:05.38 | brlcad | actually, i think binfo was the only one that didn't and probably needed it |
| 16:06.07 | ``Erik | several broke, I think maybe it was ordering? |
| 16:06.58 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: remove dup ${PKG} entries, keeping "friendly" link order |
| 16:08.38 | ``Erik | bw-png, bw-a, that's probable where I did a s/re/rs/ |
| 16:10.07 | brlcad | mebbie, though FB is the only one that comes to mind as using PKG |
| 16:10.41 | ``Erik | libfb is the one that bitches *shrug |
| 16:10.42 | brlcad | oh yeah, and fyi .. it will link and run against a system tcl/tk now .. but there's a problem with incrTcl if the versions don't match |
| 16:11.06 | brlcad | i ran a test last night and it'll even fire up mged console (while bitching about incr) |
| 16:11.08 | ``Erik | hm, so any old tcl8.5 is groovy? |
| 16:11.15 | brlcad | it should |
| 16:11.43 | brlcad | incrTcl has a run-time check to make sure the tcl/tk loaded matches the header it finds (which is our 8.5 sources) |
| 16:49.53 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 16:50.33 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/386448 <-- opening a new database and trying to create a metaball results in this, (twice) |
| 16:51.42 | IriX64 | know npot what to do here. |
| 16:51.47 | IriX64 | err not |
| 16:57.16 | IriX64 | now mi created an ars, then tried a meta ball, same result. |
| 17:01.25 | IriX64 | urf, even trying to do it in an existing database, this must be my stuff? |
| 17:50.36 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.135) | |
| 18:21.10 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-40.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:37.57 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874A0E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 18:39.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:39.38 | ``Erik | <-- been working on fixing the metaball crap... needs to quit doing a cvs update, cuz he ends up having to fix stuff every freakin' time O.o |
| 18:48.46 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/anal.c: by request from Dwayne Kregel and others, increase precision of the analyze command output from 3 or 4 points after decimal to 8. |
| 18:49.07 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:49.35 | IriX64 | #define no_metaballs_allowed. ;) |
| 18:52.44 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS TODO): increased output precision on mged 'analyze' command, by request from Dwayne Kregel and friends for their modeling purposes. |
| 18:54.03 | brlcad | whine whine cheese cheese .. this is all release prep -- as soon as it's green across the board, a release is going up |
| 19:23.18 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: restructure brep compilation so that it uses the new SSE flags from configure, distinguish between cflags and cppflags. |
| 19:25.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: shift segment to fix method bug |
| 19:27.08 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: update metaball solid editing to follow pipe semantics (fixes a few crashes) |
| 19:29.34 | clock_ | brlcad: I have a .g file on which g-dxf -r 0.5 pours some internal inconsistency messages and then tries to continue and segfaults |
| 19:30.24 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.25 | clock_ | flange.s' |
| 19:30.25 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.25 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:30.25 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.27 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:30.30 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.32 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:30.34 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.38 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:30.40 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.42 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:30.45 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.47 | clock_ | flange.s' |
| 19:30.50 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.52 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:30.55 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:30.57 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:31.00 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:31.02 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:31.05 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:31.08 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:31.10 | clock_ | db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/ |
| 19:31.13 | clock_ | heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s' |
| 19:31.15 | clock_ | (then 2 pages of normal output) |
| 19:31.18 | clock_ | and finally: |
| 19:31.20 | clock_ | Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
| 19:31.32 | clock_ | #0 db_free_tree (tp=0x86386ca0, resp=0x3c0039d0) at db_tree.c:1500 |
| 19:31.32 | clock_ | 1500 db_tree.c: No such file or directory. |
| 19:31.32 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.32 | clock_ | (gdb) bt full |
| 19:31.32 | clock_ | #0 db_free_tree (tp=0x86386ca0, resp=0x3c0039d0) at db_tree.c:1500 |
| 19:31.34 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.37 | clock_ | #1 0x1c001a4b in do_region_end (tsp=0x81a4c204, pathp=0x81a4c2f8, curtree=0x86386ca0, client_data=0x0) at g-dxf.c:1004 |
| 19:31.40 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.42 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.45 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.47 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.50 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.52 | clock_ | #2 0x021a9b7d in db_walk_dispatcher (cpu=-2119908860, arg=0xcf7f9270) at db_tree.c:2198 |
| 19:31.55 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.58 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.00 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.03 | clock_ | #3 0x021aa1ec in db_walk_tree (dbip=0x89d7d000, argc=1, argv=0xcf7f9388, ncpu=1, init_state=0x3c003b80, reg_start_func=0, reg_end_func=0x7c90e060, leaf_func=0x7c90e060, client_data=0x0) |
| 19:32.07 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.10 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.12 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.15 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.19 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.23 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.26 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.29 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.31 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.34 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.37 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.39 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.42 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.44 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.47 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.49 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.53 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.56 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:32.58 | clock_ | #4 0x1c0014bb in main (argc=2, argv=0x89d7d000) at g-dxf.c:517 |
| 19:33.01 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:33.04 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:33.06 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:33.09 | clock_ | And that's BRL-CAD 7.8.4 - the latest |
| 19:33.28 | Maloeran | Hrm. Post that in rafb.net/paste, it might be more usable by brlcad/Erik |
| 19:33.59 | ``Erik | or lisp.paste.org or pastebin.ca or ... |
| 19:38.41 | IriX64 | clock_: whered the .g file come from? your creation or asc2g? or....? |
| 19:39.06 | clock_ | My creation |
| 19:39.32 | IriX64 | and you're using dxf2g? |
| 19:40.15 | IriX64 | err g2dxf? |
| 19:40.28 | *** join/#brlcad cad38 (n=803f204c@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:42.02 | IriX64 | its telling you the line number, 517. |
| 19:42.19 | IriX64 | in g-dxf.c |
| 19:45.45 | clock_ | g-dxf or hows the program called |
| 19:58.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: tweak the point eval formula a tiny bit to allow negative points |
| 20:00.40 | IriX64 | nmg_booltree_leaf_tees, that part clock_ ? |
| 20:00.53 | IriX64 | tess. |
| 21:50.23 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.135) | |
| 22:39.11 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-209-107.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 23:24.44 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:14.01 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/.cvsignore: ignore brep_test |
| 01:03.27 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (21 files in 21 dirs): use the -fexception flag when necessary (osX/x86) |
| 01:06.14 | brlcad | bizzare.. I don't see why would those need -fexecption |
| 01:06.54 | brlcad | and I've been building successfully on osx/x86 |
| 01:08.41 | ``Erik | they broke on mine *shrug* |
| 01:08.46 | ``Erik | do you have opennurbs built into your librt? |
| 01:08.54 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:09.00 | ``Erik | hum |
| 01:09.12 | ``Erik | must have something different in the env or something |
| 01:10.48 | brlcad | but I mean even the need for the flag doesn't make sense .. exception handling code can only be generated by the c++-compiled code .. maybe if libtool is for some reason linking in librt and/or open nurbs static, I could see |
| 01:11.11 | brlcad | was there a correllation? was that everything that linked RT or something? |
| 01:11.15 | ``Erik | *shrug* I read the docs on the flag, ummm |
| 01:11.36 | ``Erik | I wasn't paying attention to that, I know some of them had only some stuff in the dir needing it |
| 01:11.55 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:12.19 | ``Erik | a couple things are getting the flag when they don't need it because 25 of the 28 things needed it and I figured keeping the automake file cleaner was more important *shrug* |
| 01:13.36 | brlcad | i mean more along the lines of if it's opennurbs propagating the need via some libtool behavior, it could also be stuffed into the OPENNURBS symbol |
| 01:14.16 | brlcad | but to date, I hadn't seen a single failure other than linking static binaries |
| 01:14.29 | ``Erik | once autogen.sh finishes and I get it configured up again, I'll look into that |
| 01:15.28 | brlcad | linking static made total sense .. almost implies that openNURBS compiled static or something (or libtool thought it needed to resolve, or something) |
| 01:15.49 | brlcad | not really complaining, just would like to understand it |
| 01:15.57 | brlcad | to avoid it |
| 01:29.02 | brlcad | I should have the COPYING/INSTALL clobbering (re)fixed again here shortly too, f'ing automake |
| 01:35.26 | ``Erik | phark, I musta had and old binary of librt or opennurbs or something :/ |
| 01:39.03 | Maloeran | Eh cool. A chunk of Survice's fire modelling code is written in Java, and that chunk of code is windows only |
| 02:06.40 | IriX64 | dm-ogl has issues. |
| 02:07.52 | IriX64 | ogl_choose_visual ogl_open ogl_close exist elsewhere man. |
| 02:08.32 | brlcad | ``Erik: make sure my recent src/librt/Makefile.am change didn't accidentally disable g_brep/OBJ_BREP .. looks like it's on here, but I haven't tried a run-time test yet |
| 02:09.23 | IriX64 | rename those 3 bwish will compile just fine. |
| 02:09.30 | brlcad | the next release will likely be --disable-opennurbs just to keep things consistent so it's not a big deal either way |
| 02:10.13 | brlcad | IriX64: is there any cohesion to your thought processes? what ARE you talking about?? |
| 02:10.58 | IriX64 | the file dm-ogl has functions in it that clash with others |
| 02:11.04 | brlcad | seriously, it sounds like you're on weed .. and I can't tell if you've got a compilation error with 4.1.2 or are fooling around |
| 02:11.24 | brlcad | with others in what? |
| 02:12.03 | IriX64 | whatever library youre linking against in bwish, its gone noew or id tell you. |
| 02:12.11 | IriX64 | the fix is to fix dm-ogl |
| 02:12.50 | brlcad | that might make the problem "go away", but I'm not going to change those function names without knowing what the problem is |
| 02:13.03 | IriX64 | multiple definitions. |
| 02:13.28 | brlcad | and that's where you need to say .. where ;) |
| 02:13.33 | IriX64 | at link time of bwish |
| 02:13.42 | brlcad | not the symbols, and not *when* |
| 02:13.45 | IriX64 | ok ;) |
| 02:14.01 | IriX64 | ill learn :) |
| 02:14.25 | brlcad | there are symbols from N multiple places, according to what you said .. what are those places (which files) |
| 02:14.33 | brlcad | it could be a simple linking issue |
| 02:14.40 | brlcad | or an issue with your configure arguments |
| 02:14.47 | brlcad | or an issue with code assumptions |
| 02:14.54 | brlcad | or some combination thereof |
| 02:15.22 | brlcad | somehow I suspect you've got a static debug build going or something |
| 02:15.26 | IriX64 | dm-ogl and i lost where they're first defined, thought it was just this code so i didn't note it, ill try again if this compile finishes. |
| 02:16.30 | IriX64 | how about this show stopper sdi_dep.c device.h, no such file or directory. |
| 02:16.46 | brlcad | sdi_dep.c ?? |
| 02:16.52 | IriX64 | sgi |
| 02:17.41 | brlcad | in which dir? |
| 02:18.08 | IriX64 | src/fbed |
| 02:19.15 | brlcad | er.. you have HAS_SGIGL defined?? |
| 02:19.25 | IriX64 | just a sec ill check |
| 02:19.36 | brlcad | grep HAS_SGIGL include/brlcad_config.h |
| 02:20.03 | IriX64 | yes |
| 02:20.16 | brlcad | it should NOT be defined for you .. so either the configure check detected incorrectly, or you've been messing with something.. |
| 02:21.21 | IriX64 | all i messed with was the presence/not presence of ogl. |
| 02:21.36 | IriX64 | i have it and it was coming up false. |
| 02:26.51 | brlcad | sounds like you might have forced the wrong thing on |
| 02:27.58 | brlcad | i can't imagine you having a -lgl that has getvideo() |
| 02:45.45 | IriX64 | but it has gl_enable(). |
| 02:47.04 | IriX64 | but im probably all wet, ill revisit it later, now im compiling my first love gcc. |
| 02:47.13 | IriX64 | right now i mean. |
| 02:47.31 | brlcad | there are multiple gl libraries |
| 02:47.39 | IriX64 | true |
| 02:47.45 | brlcad | it sounds like you forced on the wrong ones |
| 02:47.56 | brlcad | you don't have the sgi gl library |
| 02:48.02 | brlcad | hence the error |
| 02:48.10 | IriX64 | quite probably you're right |
| 02:48.53 | IriX64 | gotta test my new baby, BRL-CAD comes to mind ;) |
| 03:01.53 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669659.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:41.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:43.51 | IriX64 | somebody says... so put them in :) |
| 04:06.18 | louipc | Britney_Spears was going to talk to me in ##freebsd. I had to uh kind of go to that level yeaah |
| 04:06.59 | louipc | *kind of had to go.. |
| 04:11.03 | louipc | you have to do little bits of many tasks at a time |
| 04:11.28 | IriX64 | heh i get stuck on the first little bit |
| 04:11.31 | louipc | I seem to have trouble making sentences now |
| 04:11.43 | IriX64 | get in line |
| 04:11.59 | Maloeran | This may trash your brain's cache memory though, better use fairly large time chunks |
| 04:12.48 | IriX64 | the brain is the spark of our faith |
| 04:13.21 | IriX64 | we're all born with it, it's just that somehow some of us lose it. |
| 04:14.16 | brlcad | louipc is really just a teenager girl in disguise |
| 04:14.52 | brlcad | irc: where the men are men, the women are men, and little girls are fbi agents |
| 04:17.13 | IriX64 | actually have a relative named brandy. |
| 04:17.22 | IriX64 | my cousins wife |
| 04:18.33 | PrezKennedy | irix... wasnt that an SGI workstation from the 80's? |
| 04:20.05 | Maloeran | Close, it's the name of the operating system |
| 04:20.36 | PrezKennedy | still around? |
| 04:21.00 | IriX64 | 70's :) |
| 04:21.37 | IriX64 | Silicon Graphics Inc, you remeber? |
| 04:21.45 | IriX64 | remember too. |
| 04:22.22 | Maloeran | I think Irix is fairly dead these days |
| 04:22.26 | PrezKennedy | before my time... but i played Doom and dogfight when i was young |
| 04:22.45 | IriX64 | still have a copy of doom |
| 04:22.58 | IriX64 | son played it a lot |
| 04:23.03 | Maloeran | Actually, Irix 6.5 came out in 1998, latest stable release 6.5.30 August 2006 |
| 04:23.24 | PrezKennedy | i have doom for PC now |
| 04:23.25 | IriX64 | the fount of all knowlede spoke ;) |
| 04:23.28 | ``Erik | the name of the OS, actually, not the workstation |
| 04:23.33 | PrezKennedy | and i have the windows port of dogfight for PC |
| 04:23.47 | IriX64 | man i don't know squatt about Irix. |
| 04:24.17 | ``Erik | and the first irix was a bsd 4.3 variant in '88 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irix |
| 04:24.32 | Maloeran | Poor SGI, how is it doing these days? |
| 04:24.41 | ``Erik | sysV+bsd43 rather |
| 04:24.49 | ``Erik | pink listing last I heard, mal... |
| 04:24.58 | Maloeran | Pink listing? What's that? |
| 04:25.05 | IriX64 | Maloeran, I would know this how? |
| 04:25.50 | PrezKennedy | i thought they were being delisted |
| 04:26.00 | brlcad | Maloeran: it's an invite to a Britney Spears birthday party |
| 04:26.22 | louipc | Britney Spears uses FreeBSD |
| 04:26.48 | PrezKennedy | Britney Spears uses Windows 3.11 for Workgroups |
| 04:26.54 | PrezKennedy | and i use the term "uses" loosely |
| 04:27.22 | brlcad | netcraft doesn't confirm it |
| 04:27.28 | brlcad | says she's running linux :) |
| 04:27.59 | ``Erik | pink listing is the 'probationary' before being delisted... looks like sgi went into chap11 and back out, hopefully their recovery stays on track o.O |
| 04:28.25 | brlcad | the reorg and focus on altix was a good decision |
| 04:28.42 | brlcad | it's their only remaining niche that they haven't sold off the intellectual rights to at this point |
| 04:28.58 | brlcad | but still a long shot |
| 04:29.01 | ``Erik | heh, unfortunately the altix uses itaniums :) |
| 04:29.24 | ``Erik | if they'd gone with opterons, they'd probably be a bit better off |
| 04:30.36 | brlcad | for that niche, it probably doesn't matter too much |
| 04:30.42 | Maloeran | Intel really made a mess with their Itaniums, several companies believed in this new architecture |
| 04:30.45 | brlcad | the single-image scalability is their bread winner |
| 04:31.13 | brlcad | the first crop of itaniums was horrid, I2 was much better |
| 04:31.40 | Maloeran | Even Microsoft created this interpreted C# thing for windows binaries to work equally on ia32 and ia64, which of course is now useless with ia32/amd64, although they got a lot of people hooked to it somehow |
| 04:31.48 | ``Erik | if intel would've sold 'em cheaper (loss-leader style instead of high markup 'premium' at first), things robably woulda been different :) |
| 04:32.33 | Maloeran | Yes, Itaniums were way too expensive, totally out of range of ordinary mortals |
| 04:34.33 | Maloeran | Even later, I don't understand why they didn't cut price by 70-85% when Opterons came around, the outcome was getting really obvious |
| 04:35.04 | Maloeran | The instruction set was great, the architecture was neat, I really wish we could have moved away from this x86 cludge |
| 04:41.45 | IriX64 | err athlon/xp |
| 04:42.01 | PrezKennedy | gnight folks |
| 04:42.14 | IriX64 | knight :) |
| 04:42.19 | IriX64 | ah well. |
| 04:44.58 | IriX64 | if ibm had selected motorola instead of intel, none of the segment stuff woulda ever been necessary. |
| 04:45.52 | IriX64 | pdp11 on a chip, gotta love it. (6502) |
| 04:46.52 | IriX64 | anybody remeber the NEC v20? |
| 04:47.06 | IriX64 | z80 and 8088 on one chip. |
| 05:00.56 | ``Erik | 6502 was MOS, not motorola |
| 05:01.48 | IriX64 | err? |
| 05:02.37 | IriX64 | lemme check my cpu reference :) |
| 05:02.44 | ``Erik | the dudes who made teh 6800 quit motorola, started their own co and started making new chips |
| 05:03.04 | ``Erik | and commodores used the 6502 and it's family for the vic, c64, c128, .... |
| 05:03.10 | IriX64 | 6502 was put out by motorola |
| 05:03.32 | IriX64 | atari line also used 6502 |
| 05:03.44 | ``Erik | motorola chips are 68* |
| 05:03.53 | IriX64 | now yes |
| 05:04.10 | ``Erik | 6501 was pin compatible with the (older) 6800, then there was a lawsuit, the 6502 was a pin incompatible version |
| 05:04.24 | ``Erik | according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502 |
| 05:04.31 | IriX64 | dude... |
| 05:05.17 | IriX64 | wikipedia.... pfffffft |
| 05:05.19 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600 points to MOS, too |
| 05:05.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 05:06.41 | IriX64 | first one though was an ohio scientific endeavor. |
| 05:07.35 | IriX64 | addiction calls, bbiab :( |
| 06:36.11 | *** join/#brlcad cad94 (n=51df8a12@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 07:36.22 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 07:46.53 | brlcad | my spidey sense tingles |
| 09:31.00 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed) |
| 09:31.00 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: major update. this change adds support for protected recursive build |
| 09:31.00 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: preparations, saving copies of all the relevant COPYING/INSTALL files that might |
| 09:31.00 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: get stomped on by automake/autoreconf (EVEN WHEN USING AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS). the |
| 09:31.00 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: files are even still stashed into memory too by using tricksy path-specific |
| 09:31.02 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: variables. this fix will restore the files correctly regardless of whether |
| 09:31.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: autoreconf or manual steps are taken. t'is a royal hassle just to compensate |
| 11:01.46 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.198) | |
| 11:35.57 | *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:50.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: the spezialization is friend, not the template |
| 11:59.28 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/ (vector.h vector_fpu.h vector_x86.h): VC++ 6.0 does not like the (redundant) struct keyword in connection with a template |
| 13:08.04 | brlcad | rossberg: sorry, i missed the connection that it was the basename() code that started the strlcpy() .. |
| 13:08.12 | brlcad | i thought you had used strlcpy somewhere |
| 13:08.22 | brlcad | my confusion |
| 13:08.57 | brlcad | all makes sense now since those basename sources were pulled from openbsd iirc |
| 13:14.27 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: missing the case where the number matches exactly, check patch -eq patch |
| 13:17.42 | rossberg | brlcad: i'm fine :-) |
| 13:18.58 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: order |
| 13:19.19 | rossberg | btw, gcc gives a warning for vector.h about the template friend |
| 13:20.13 | rossberg | this warning can be switched off, but i don't know how to do this for vector.h only |
| 13:27.42 | brlcad | rossberg: if you know the warning number, you can add a pragma to disable it |
| 13:29.45 | brlcad | e.g. #if defined(_MSC_VER) && _MSC_VER >= 1100 #pragma warning(disable: ####) #endif |
| 13:30.14 | rossberg | brlcad: ok, i'll have a look at this ... next week |
| 13:30.48 | brlcad | should be used sparingly of course, but if it causes problems, that should do the trick |
| 13:32.43 | rossberg | the warning is about the programmer might want a different beahvior, however i want exactly the current behavior |
| 14:09.09 | ``Erik | strlcpy() might be a good idea, but migrating our usage of strcpy to it might take a fair bit of 'grunt' effort |
| 14:09.17 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548767EF.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:13.57 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 14:13.57 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: be extra careful about clearing out variables when we're done with them and |
| 14:13.57 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: utilizing even less space when encoding string chars.. we're right up against |
| 14:13.57 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: the ARG_MAX limit on irix and (some) bsd systems where keeping two copies of our |
| 14:13.59 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: COPYING file in memory is turning out to be too much, but everything is fine if |
| 14:14.01 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: we only ever have just one copy of the file retained in memory. ahh, such |
| 14:14.03 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: abusive fun with environment variables. |
| 14:39.33 | brlcad | meh, seems like busy work and somewhat politically charged |
| 14:42.29 | *** join/#brlcad cad23 (n=db444236@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:55.23 | ``Erik | ok, strncpy() *shrug* |
| 15:13.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:13.51 | ``Erik | on "make dist" |
| 15:13.51 | ``Erik | make[4]: Entering directory `/some/path/src/other/tcl/unix' |
| 15:13.51 | ``Erik | make[4]: *** No rule to make target `distdir'. Stop. |
| 15:17.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ir-sgi.c: include bu.h for bu_fgets |
| 15:18.27 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/irprep/Makefile.am: reduce LDADD libs to minimal. Add deps info. |
| 17:28.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: Added help for reset/bv_reset (fixes bug 1219087) |
| 18:33.32 | IriX64 | just realized something, sorry i won't do it again. |
| 18:38.44 | ``Erik | I don't think this channel is intended for getting your hand on someones nozzle. O.o |
| 18:39.19 | IriX64 | heh I'm male but thanks for the offer ;) |
| 18:39.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, I noticed that too -- all of the automake targets aren't in tcl's makefile since they only use autoconf |
| 18:39.54 | brlcad | e.g. make etags too |
| 18:40.37 | brlcad | have to provide similar recursion halts in src/other/tcl/Makefile.am |
| 18:41.11 | brlcad | maybe make it not be a SUBDIRS, and just do a cd && make manually |
| 18:41.27 | brlcad | so that the other rules can be removed too |
| 18:41.50 | brlcad | strncpy cleanup is a great idea |
| 18:42.17 | brlcad | i was going to focus on that as part of the Pedro's security scan cleanup |
| 18:42.32 | brlcad | still a release or two away |
| 18:42.37 | ``Erik | that might be a 'jr developer' task |
| 18:43.16 | ``Erik | dist/distcheck is kinda, uh, important... though... |
| 18:45.15 | brlcad | the security cleanup isn't necessarily, but yeah on the gruntage |
| 18:49.56 | brlcad | IriX64: you ever get to testing those geometry conversions? or plan/hope to? really would be helpful |
| 18:50.09 | brlcad | moreso that compilation testing :) |
| 18:51.01 | IriX64 | dont have the patience, but your team should be able to do: g-dxf followed by a dxf-g and likle wise for all of them, you darn well better get back what you started with. |
| 18:51.57 | brlcad | you're talking to the team, we're working on other aspects of the project |
| 18:52.11 | IriX64 | heh maybe ill tackle it then. |
| 18:52.27 | IriX64 | start with g files i better get back a proper g file :) |
| 18:52.55 | ``Erik | "the team" is kinda 2-3 people with 'todo' lists measured in au's O.o |
| 18:53.11 | brlcad | you won't end up with what you started with as dxf is a different representation, but it should resemble the original just in polygonal form |
| 18:53.19 | IriX64 | heh break the light speed barrier then :) |
| 18:53.51 | IriX64 | dxf-g tested it works. |
| 18:54.07 | IriX64 | and not just starting with a g file. |
| 18:54.15 | IriX64 | got a holt of a real dxf |
| 18:59.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: tuck openNURBS headers into a subdir instead of polluting include/ (should these be noinst?) |
| 19:05.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: malloc.h was superceded by stdlib.h no later than c89, so try stdlib.h first |
| 19:07.07 | ``Erik | hm, openbsd really doesn't like the mixing of c and c++ |
| 19:14.56 | brlcad | README.BSD << "On OpenBSD, compile with ./configure CC=g++" is a perfectly viable punt for the short term too if there's only one or two like that |
| 19:18.47 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/387972 < another project I play with :) |
| 19:23.48 | IriX64 | but for a real treat I prefer brlcad ;) |
| 19:28.57 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-40.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:29.15 | clock_ | Funny message on OpenBSD |
| 19:29.33 | clock_ | When compiling Ronja. Cannot fork, try again. Checked processes, didn't find any excess number of processes |
| 19:31.13 | ``Erik | cool, I'm not seeing that on my obsd box :) |
| 19:34.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: avoid the square brackets |
| 19:48.33 | ``Erik | stupid square brackets *shakes fist* </homersimpson> |
| 19:49.29 | brlcad | yeah, took me a bit to realize that stupidity |
| 19:49.53 | brlcad | don't see how it worked on two platforms I tested.. but it did |
| 19:49.59 | brlcad | greedy match |
| 19:51.39 | ``Erik | hm, the CC=g++ hack can't work on OpenBSD without mods tcl refuses to compile |
| 19:52.13 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: initialize from the starting directory |
| 19:53.36 | brlcad | really .. that's odd |
| 19:53.50 | brlcad | what about just linking with g++ |
| 19:54.01 | brlcad | ./configure LD=g++ or something iirc |
| 19:54.39 | ``Erik | -Wno-implicit-int makes it puke |
| 19:55.11 | brlcad | ahh, I take it that is something tcl's adding |
| 19:55.37 | ``Erik | yes, in src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.am |
| 19:57.16 | ``Erik | er, .in, not .am, sorry |
| 20:05.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove debug printing |
| 20:10.05 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/ (Makefile.am dd_protocols/Makefile.am): remove the pkgIndex.tcl (unused) and tclIndex (shouldn't ever need to be generated) targets so non-GNU make's work when builddir!=srcdir |
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| 20:14.39 | ``Erik | [[['''']['''']['''']['''']][['''']['''']['''']['''']] |
| 20:14.41 | ``Erik | nice |
| 20:35.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: try to cope with OS's that don't like dots in library names |
| 20:44.08 | clock_ | |'''' |
| 20:44.18 | clock_ | |''''|''''|''''|''''|''''|'''' |
| 20:44.39 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: rename brep_hbv to more appropriate brep_bv |
| 20:46.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: begin implementation of rt_brep_prep: construct BVH, and precalculate cdbitems |
| 20:46.08 | ``Erik | heh, I believe what I pasted was brlcad's "extra square brackets" effect on some of my files... :) |
| 21:00.57 | ``Erik | a/det |
| 21:01.00 | ``Erik | bah |
| 21:22.43 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): restore make dist support by removing 'unix' as a SUBDIRS; add rules for all-am and clean-am for starters. only tested on fbsd thusfar. |
| 21:47.17 | brlcad | that doesn't fix distcheck, but does generate the dist |
| 21:47.21 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: need to recursively delete the autom4te.cache directories else there can be a plethora of build problems of the "Can't locate object method "path" via package "Request" sort. |
| 21:57.02 | Maloeran | Ahahah, this is so sad - http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11211.0 |
| 22:48.58 | IriX64 | love make -i :) |
| 22:49.14 | IriX64 | finished the build in spite of adrt. |
| 22:53.40 | IriX64 | too many undefined references though for it to be your problem. |
| 22:58.34 | IriX64 | why is python2.4 in makefile.in for adrt/isst/master? I have python 2.5 and theres no version number shown in config.log. |
| 00:24.33 | Twingy | nobody knows! |
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| 12:28.32 | clock_ | A BRL-CAD model: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja1_3.png |
| 13:38.41 | clock_ | ``Erik: not yet |
| 13:38.57 | clock_ | ``Erik: the LED position is determined through instinct |
| 13:44.19 | ``Erik | hm, if you put a light source at your 'target' and a "card" down the length of the tube, you should see an X pattern on it, I'd imagine, with the cross being the most instense part :) |
| 13:45.48 | ``Erik | could also use the photon mapping with a fake 'scene' to see if there're ways to configure things to reduce noise at the sensor *shrug* :) |
| 13:50.42 | ``Erik | hrmmmm, yuh oh, hypersample and jitter aren't mentioned in rt's -h |
| 13:51.10 | ``Erik | if you rt with like -H 5, a lot of the aliasing will go away |
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| 19:01.24 | ``Erik | not too surprisingly, packaged grocery store sushi is not that good. |
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| 22:17.57 | louipc | whois deltazap |
| 22:52.44 | IriX64 | not me ;) |
| 00:04.51 | bjorkBSD | not me. |
| 00:06.59 | ``Erik | ... |
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| 00:20.45 | IriX64 | ... = and your point is :) |
| 00:42.44 | bjorkBSD | that i'm not delta zap. |
| 00:53.10 | IriX64 | i was thinking we should adopt ... to mean and your point is :) |
| 05:24.21 | brlcad | woot, finally done with the application |
| 05:24.47 | brlcad | hopefuly didn't write too much .. hmm |
| 06:19.41 | Twingy | I'm sure they will write back... "Dear Sean, thank you for your submission to GSoC, but you've written entirely too much and have therefore forfeited your entry, have a good day." |
| 06:20.06 | brlcad | heh, mebbie |
| 06:20.43 | Twingy | I just installed ubuntu 6.10 on my new dell d420 |
| 06:20.43 | Twingy | got 1280x800 + wifi working without a hitch |
| 06:20.46 | brlcad | not too shabby |
| 06:20.48 | Twingy | thing weighs like a feather |
| 06:20.58 | Twingy | but still not a mac, doesn't have itunes |
| 06:21.17 | Twingy | when apple reveals their subnotebooks I might snag one for personal |
| 06:21.57 | Twingy | for now the D420 will be my email bitch for work and the occaisonal red-headed-step-child psuedo sidekick for my *nix software development |
| 06:22.41 | brlcad | you read up on the flash-drive notebook that is supposed to come out? |
| 06:23.06 | Twingy | its light weight, crappy screen, and awful speaker(s?) make you want to focus soley on software development |
| 06:23.12 | Twingy | yes, not impressed |
| 06:23.15 | brlcad | all rumor-mill, of course, but seemed highly likely/reputable source |
| 06:23.39 | Twingy | I don't see why that can't be emulated at the kernel layer |
| 06:23.56 | Twingy | I don't like my disk drives fancy |
| 06:24.07 | Twingy | I just like them to work without failure and be cheap |
| 06:24.43 | Twingy | in fact, I could do without any disk drive for most of my needs |
| 06:25.00 | brlcad | but then where would you store your pr0n? |
| 06:25.04 | Twingy | a 1GB flash drive for the OS + nfs for local use and web for google apps on the road would be plenty |
| 06:25.15 | Twingy | heh, believe it or not I have 0 bytes of pr0n stored |
| 06:25.18 | Twingy | *gasp* |
| 06:25.44 | Twingy | and I *think* I have 1 illegal star strek episode and 1 illegal movie on my drive |
| 06:25.52 | Twingy | *trek |
| 06:26.12 | Twingy | the rest is src code and illegal mp3's mixed with legit aac's from itunes |
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| 06:26.45 | Twingy | all the mp3's are pre-itunes though, cept maybe a dozen |
| 06:27.04 | Twingy | my hard drive is pretty boring :) |
| 06:27.14 | brlcad | i need to de-aac my music at some point |
| 06:28.08 | brlcad | mine's probably considerably more .. um .. incriminteresting .. |
| 06:29.27 | Twingy | banshee plays aac |
| 06:29.37 | Twingy | but I'm not sure if it does the drm'd ones |
| 06:29.55 | brlcad | yeah, that's what I meant, de-drm them -- aac's just fine |
| 06:30.05 | Twingy | I need a program to go through all my files and do ogg-96 on them all |
| 06:30.29 | Twingy | I can't tell a difference beyond ogg-80 |
| 06:30.42 | Twingy | so logically I choose the next step up |
| 06:31.03 | Twingy | supposedly it's like mp3-160/192 |
| 06:31.57 | brlcad | sounds a bit high, but roughly about that much |
| 06:32.36 | brlcad | I encode everything as high a bit rate as it'll do just cause I don't want to ever recode again and really don't give a damn about the disk space |
| 06:32.47 | Twingy | solar panels will be cranking tomorrow |
| 06:33.16 | Twingy | almost windy enough to make me not want to fly tomorrow |
| 06:33.19 | brlcad | i've got itunes set to 320 or whatever that highest is, for eample |
| 06:33.44 | brlcad | just flap harder |
| 06:33.48 | Twingy | 0-5 mph == fun, 5 - 10 mph == interesting, 10 - 15 mph == slightly unpleasant, 15 mph == stupid |
| 06:34.13 | Twingy | tomorrow is 7mph - 13 mph |
| 06:34.21 | brlcad | 45 mph == ? |
| 06:34.39 | Twingy | 45 mph == build a windmill |
| 06:35.02 | brlcad | only to have the hurricane passing through blow it away? :) |
| 06:35.17 | Twingy | sooner or later I'm going to build a steam engine and wire it up to my solar generator |
| 06:35.19 | brlcad | (a small one) |
| 06:35.54 | Twingy | if it weren't for the fact that I need to feed it ~200V+ DC it'd be tiny |
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| 17:07.22 | cad22 | hello? |
| 17:08.03 | brlcad | hello |
| 17:08.51 | Twingy | hello! |
| 17:09.11 | cad22 | I have been trying to install v 7.8.4 on amd64 |
| 17:09.34 | cad22 | it crashes on make |
| 17:09.51 | cad22 | on reading the GL/gl.h library |
| 17:10.16 | cad22 | i tried with the no GL option but it still reads the file |
| 17:10.44 | cad22 | have you heard of anone else having this problem before? |
| 17:12.07 | brlcad | hmm.. cad22, I haven't |
| 17:12.14 | brlcad | "crashes" on make? |
| 17:12.21 | brlcad | which OS are you on? |
| 17:12.40 | cad22 | Ubuntu 6.06 |
| 17:12.52 | brlcad | what's your configure line? |
| 17:13.09 | brlcad | and are you using CVS sources or latest tarball? |
| 17:14.05 | cad22 | the first thing I tried was simply ./configure, I have also tried with --without-opengl and with -with-opengl=no |
| 17:14.30 | brlcad | in the summary at the end, does it say opengl is off? |
| 17:14.45 | cad22 | yes, I verified that |
| 17:15.01 | brlcad | and are you using CVS sources or latest tarball? |
| 17:15.14 | cad22 | I downloaded the latest from sourceforge |
| 17:15.36 | brlcad | so 7.8.4 source tarball |
| 17:15.40 | cad22 | yes |
| 17:16.10 | brlcad | could just be an issue in that old tarball that I'm forgetting (that was a while ago) .. but where's it actually failing? |
| 17:17.41 | cad22 | when compiling either dm_obj.c or dm-ogl.c |
| 17:17.56 | cad22 | (in libdm) |
| 17:19.31 | cad22 | it ends up reading the gl.h file anyways |
| 17:19.38 | brlcad | hmm, yes |
| 17:20.12 | brlcad | grep HAVE_GL_GL_H include/brlcad_config.h |
| 17:20.19 | brlcad | what does that report? |
| 17:20.46 | brlcad | and grep DM_OGL include/brlcad_config.h |
| 17:21.02 | cad22 | #define HAVE_GL_GL_H 1 |
| 17:21.22 | brlcad | well that's odd |
| 17:21.45 | brlcad | you apparently had a GL/gl.h during configure for that to succeed .. maybe in a different path |
| 17:21.52 | cad22 | I get nothing for the second grep |
| 17:22.01 | brlcad | k |
| 17:22.55 | brlcad | can you copy/paste the compilation line that fails? |
| 17:23.22 | brlcad | it should say something like: |
| 17:23.23 | brlcad | /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c -o dm_obj.lo `test -f 'dm_obj.c' || echo './'`dm_obj.c |
| 17:23.36 | cad22 | where would I find this? |
| 17:23.56 | brlcad | cd src/libdm && make dm-ogl.lo |
| 17:25.19 | brlcad | the first line output that says libtool or gcc is what i'm looking for |
| 17:25.38 | cad22 | I reextracted from the compressed file and am recompiling again... I had changed stuff. |
| 17:25.47 | cad22 | It will take a minute. |
| 17:25.49 | brlcad | ahh |
| 17:26.14 | brlcad | configure --without-opengl |
| 17:26.32 | cad22 | I had commenteOpenGL support .......................: no |
| 17:26.43 | cad22 | OpenGL support .......................: no |
| 17:27.23 | cad22 | (the greps were after configuation and starting to compile) |
| 17:28.40 | cad22 | ubuntu:~/Desktop/brlcad-7.8.4>cd src/libdm && make dm-ogl.loubuntu:~/Desktop/brlcad-7.8.4>cd src/libdm && make dm-ogl.lo/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include -I../../include -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c -o dm-ogl.lo `test -f 'dm-ogl.c' || echo './'`dm-ogl.c/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include |
| 17:31.14 | brlcad | and well that looks right |
| 17:31.16 | brlcad | and it fails? |
| 17:31.34 | cad22 | ues |
| 17:31.37 | cad22 | yes |
| 17:31.42 | cad22 | usr/include/GL/gl.h:4325: error: syntax error before '*' token |
| 17:31.47 | brlcad | grep DM_OGL_CFLAGS Makefile |
| 17:32.00 | brlcad | look for the one that has an = |
| 17:32.04 | cad22 | i get a ton of those... and |
| 17:32.06 | cad22 | make[3]: *** [libdm_la-dm_obj.lo] Error 1 |
| 17:32.32 | brlcad | yeah, to be expected.. it shouldn't be doing anything in that file.. but somehow DM_OGL is set |
| 17:32.39 | cad22 | no result for grep |
| 17:33.02 | brlcad | grep DM_OGL Makefile.am |
| 17:33.23 | cad22 | no result |
| 17:35.17 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 17:35.31 | brlcad | you're in src/libdm when you did the grep? |
| 17:35.59 | cad22 | no, sorry. I went back to 7.8.4 directory. |
| 17:36.25 | cad22 | #DM_OGL_CFLAGS = -DDM_OGL -DIF_OGLDM_OGL_CFLAGS =libdm_la_CFLAGS = ${X_CFLAGS} ${DM_X_CFLAGS} ${DM_OGL_CFLAGS} ${DM_WGL_CFLAGS} |
| 17:36.54 | cad22 | ubuntu:~/Desktop/brlcad-7.8.4/src/libdm>grep DM_OGL Makefile.amDM_OGL_CFLAGS = -DDM_OGL -DIF_OGLDM_OGL_CFLAGS =libdm_la_CFLAGS = ${X_CFLAGS} ${DM_X_CFLAGS} ${DM_OGL_CFLAGS} ${DM_WGL_CFLAGS} |
| 17:38.03 | brlcad | er, which of those two? |
| 17:38.03 | cad22 | the first was grep DM_OGL_CFLAGS Makefile |
| 17:38.03 | cad22 | the second was: grep DM_OGL Makefile.am |
| 17:38.21 | brlcad | ahhh, okay |
| 17:40.43 | brlcad | that says DM_OGL is turned off |
| 17:40.56 | brlcad | yet you say make dm-ogl.lo fails |
| 17:41.25 | cad22 | it shouldn't try to make dm-ogl.lo, then? |
| 17:41.58 | brlcad | no, it should -- without the DM_OGL define, it's an empty file |
| 17:42.18 | brlcad | unless if things were different in 7.8.4 and I'm just not remembering.. lemme get those sources |
| 17:44.23 | cad22 | if it makes any difference: I do have a gl vid card: firegl v3100. so gl.h is a symbolic link to glATI.h |
| 17:44.55 | brlcad | that would be why configure should succeed (assuming you have the libs and the libs actually work as expected) |
| 17:45.18 | brlcad | but the fact that it has a syntax error .. implies something wrong in the glATI.h header |
| 17:45.33 | brlcad | usr/include/GL/gl.h:4325 |
| 17:45.49 | brlcad | what is on that line number? |
| 17:46.00 | brlcad | (almost done getting old sources) |
| 17:46.53 | cad22 | there are a ton of those errors, i just picked one of the last ones: |
| 17:46.55 | cad22 | typedef GLvoid (APIENTRY *PFNGLGETACTIVEATTRIBARBPROC)(GLhandleARB programObj, GLuint index, GLsizei maxLength, GLsizei *length, GLint *size, GLenum *type, |
| 17:47.13 | brlcad | ahh, I presumed it was one of the first .. what's the very first error? |
| 17:47.55 | cad22 | there are so many I can't scroll up... |
| 17:48.20 | brlcad | make dm-ogl.lo 2>&1 | less |
| 17:49.50 | cad22 | it said it was up to date |
| 17:50.16 | brlcad | eep |
| 17:50.28 | brlcad | that means it compiled |
| 17:50.36 | brlcad | maybe a different file is failing |
| 17:50.40 | cad22 | I have tried previously "less"ing but the errors don't go to the less screen |
| 17:50.55 | brlcad | yeah, you have to redirect stderr .. add 2>&1 |
| 17:51.27 | cad22 | In file included from dm_obj.c:45:/usr/include/GL/glx.h:67: error: syntax error before '*' token |
| 17:51.53 | brlcad | okay.. dm_obj.c is failing.. not dm-ogl.c .. that makes more sense |
| 17:52.11 | brlcad | curious, though .. /usr/include/GL/glx.h:67 is what? |
| 17:52.55 | brlcad | still sounds like a header mixup that should actually work as you do seem to have the headers |
| 17:53.10 | cad22 | ypedef void (* PFNGLXBINDTEXIMAGEATIPROC)(Display *dpy, GLXPbuffer pbuf, int buffer); |
| 17:53.20 | cad22 | cut of the t |
| 17:53.33 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 17:53.41 | brlcad | they're not using contained headers |
| 17:53.43 | brlcad | shame on ati |
| 17:54.20 | brlcad | "Display" is an X11 type .. and they've apparently not included the X11 header in their glx.h |
| 17:55.50 | brlcad | so to fix.. you can either add #include <X11/Xlib.h> above the #include for glx.h in dm_obj.c .. or turn off HAVE_GL_GLX_H and HAVE_GL_GL_H in include/brlcad_config.h |
| 17:56.29 | cad22 | i'll give the first a try |
| 17:58.24 | cad22 | still get error |
| 17:58.38 | brlcad | exact same line/error? |
| 17:58.39 | cad22 | (still on line 67) |
| 17:59.06 | cad22 | usr/include/GL/glx.h:67: error: syntax error before 'GLXPbuffer' |
| 17:59.17 | cad22 | #ifdef HAVE_GL_GLX_H# include <X11/Xlib.h># include <GL/glx.h>#endif |
| 18:00.07 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 18:01.03 | cad22 | the link was already present for gl.h to glATI.h |
| 18:01.22 | cad22 | there was no link present for glx so I made one earlier |
| 18:01.23 | brlcad | curious.. wonder if something else maybe is setting Display, or a #define elsewhere in some other header |
| 18:02.13 | brlcad | hmm.. that's caution-worthy in itself .. as those aren't necessarily the only two |
| 18:03.02 | brlcad | still.. failing on display is odd.. add #include <Xlib/X11.h> and #include <GL/glx.h> above the stdlib.h line |
| 18:03.27 | brlcad | just to make sure it's not tcl.h or something silly causing a problem |
| 18:04.27 | cad22 | same error |
| 18:05.22 | brlcad | that's "good" per-se though still leaves us with the same odd error |
| 18:05.45 | cad22 | (lines now removed above stdlib.h) |
| 18:06.43 | brlcad | it's still looking like something wrong with your ati headers, though really hard to tell without reading through the header files |
| 18:06.53 | brlcad | probably just as easy to turn them off |
| 18:06.59 | brlcad | it doesn't remove functionality |
| 18:07.05 | brlcad | just uses a different mechanism |
| 18:07.22 | brlcad | i.e. comment out HAVE_GL_GLX_H and HAVE_GL_GL_H in include/brlcad_config.h |
| 18:08.32 | cad22 | (i usually manage to on my own) |
| 18:09.26 | brlcad | if you're willing to provide some sort of shell access, I'll dig deeper, but it's looking like a rather bizzare setup issue atm |
| 18:10.22 | cad22 | that seems like it worked |
| 18:10.38 | brlcad | where? |
| 18:11.01 | brlcad | it is one of their least used resources afaik .. but still.. |
| 18:11.25 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=665363 |
| 18:11.30 | ``Erik | http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/07/03/11/0049234.shtml |
| 18:12.57 | brlcad | hrmph.. just saw the wikipedia entry too |
| 18:13.23 | cad22 | thank you very much fr the help |
| 18:14.29 | brlcad | cad22: no problem |
| 18:14.45 | brlcad | cad22: curious .. would none of the posted binaries work for you? |
| 18:15.09 | cad22 | the ones I saw were 32 bit |
| 18:15.14 | cad22 | are there 64 bit ones available? |
| 18:15.58 | brlcad | ah, not for that version, for linux iirc |
| 18:16.34 | brlcad | only because there aren't 7.8.4 binaries posted.. only a deb |
| 18:16.45 | brlcad | there are 64bit binaries for 7.8.0 iirc |
| 18:17.01 | brlcad | yeah, http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559 |
| 18:19.10 | cad22 | Yes, I do have other 32 bit apps running. I didn't remember immediately how to do that so tried to compile first. |
| 18:19.48 | ``Erik | amd64 "just works" on the bsd and leenewx breeds I've messed with |
| 18:31.02 | cad22 | Thank you again. Got mged running... |
| 22:41.55 | IriX64 | hahha i mean athlon. |
| 22:47.00 | IriX64 | ``Erik, what the heck is a metaball? |
| 22:47.30 | IriX64 | s/a/s |
| 22:48.41 | Maloeran | Ask wikipedia on metaballs |
| 22:49.09 | IriX64 | rarely use wikipedia Malorean how do i do what you suggested? |
| 22:50.10 | IriX64 | rarely= haven't used it yet. |
| 22:50.11 | Maloeran | http://wikipedia.org/ Yype metaball in the search field, followed by pressing enter |
| 22:50.48 | Maloeran | And you really are missing something, the world's largest encyclopedia. It's fantastic, I can spend whole days just reading from it |
| 22:51.01 | Maloeran | Type* metaball, rather |
| 22:52.08 | Maloeran | Actually, their article on metaballs is surprisingly short in comparison to most others |
| 22:53.12 | brlcad | when all else fails, try what should be obvious |
| 22:53.20 | brlcad | ~google metaballs |
| 22:53.32 | IriX64 | does brlcad use bruteforce or the marching cubes approach? |
| 22:53.48 | IriX64 | ill remember wikipedia.org, thanks Maloeran. |
| 22:56.35 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/391172 < --- ogl has issues on my system brlcad. |
| 22:57.46 | brlcad | i'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess that you tried to force opengl on even though it was configuring off |
| 22:58.04 | IriX64 | bad stab, i actually have it. |
| 22:58.24 | brlcad | you might have it, but that doesn't look like an unmodified compile |
| 22:58.34 | IriX64 | its a macro, any idea where it lives? |
| 22:58.37 | brlcad | that error indicates it wasn't properly enabled |
| 22:58.47 | IriX64 | really? |
| 22:59.04 | brlcad | really |
| 22:59.38 | brlcad | you forced it on via modifications, yes? |
| 23:01.32 | IriX64 | no honestly. |
| 23:02.02 | IriX64 | found it the file lives in include/fbio.h looking now. |
| 23:02.55 | brlcad | then there's preprocessor logic that is out of what .. something rather non-trivial to debug |
| 23:03.26 | IriX64 | might be this number im looking at just a sec. |
| 23:03.31 | brlcad | that check it's failing on is merely a sanity check to make sure it really has a framebuffer object |
| 23:03.34 | brlcad | it doesn't, so it aborts |
| 23:04.24 | IriX64 | numbers don't math should be is what you have and what imp providing doesn't match, not your bug (i think) |
| 23:04.25 | brlcad | there is *nothing* wrong with the various _CK_ macros that you keep checking -- those are security safeguard checks so that the application aborts soon |
| 23:04.47 | brlcad | what that abort means is that some before that point in the code already went wrong |
| 23:04.56 | brlcad | that just happened to be where it was cuaght |
| 23:06.26 | IriX64 | ty ill keep looking. |
| 23:33.49 | IriX64 | where'd wikipedia come from? |
| 23:34.53 | IriX64 | sheltered too. |
| 23:41.25 | brlcad | ask wikipedia |
| 23:42.48 | brlcad | it's been around for many years .. just about every topic. hard to do a search without a wikipedia result coming up |
| 23:43.00 | Maloeran | More than seeds, the Norwegian government should have stored full backups of Wikipedia in the Doomsday Vault |
| 01:37.41 | IriX64 | interesting |
| 01:38.11 | IriX64 | and obviously they keep adding to it. |
| 01:40.07 | IriX64 | good to know i'm not in there, was worried for a moment :) |
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| 04:36.58 | IriX64 | brlcad just out of curiosity, does that magic number, is it returned from gl, and is it guaranteed to be the same on everybodys system? |
| 04:38.13 | IriX64 | I took it out of my copy, and am curious if im breaking anything else? |
| 04:38.33 | IriX64 | still compiling, i'll know soon. |
| 04:49.24 | Maloeran | Magic variables as first member in structs are used to uniquely identify the chunk of data for debugging purposes |
| 04:52.26 | Maloeran | Speaking of which, I find it strange that there's no global switch to disable these checks and remove the magic variables |
| 05:07.08 | IriX64 | they're merely checking a passed pointer to a struct for validity, in fb_close trying to close the device. |
| 05:12.17 | IriX64 | works ty. |
| 05:12.23 | IriX64 | rt too :) |
| 05:16.18 | IriX64 | was failing on the open. |
| 05:18.52 | IriX64 | my way i still check the pointer for validity, but it's not tied to that funny number. |
| 05:20.36 | IriX64 | just use the same name for the new check, it passes, i recompiled everything. |
| 05:25.56 | IriX64 | still need the other two variables (ptr and str) . |
| 05:26.11 | IriX64 | for backwards compatibility :) |
| 05:31.37 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php my code for what its worth, nothing else need change. |
| 05:37.11 | IriX64 | now to build an x version for myself. |
| 05:38.00 | brlcad | IriX64: removing the check doesn't fix anything any more than spraying perfume on crap makes it smell good |
| 05:38.34 | brlcad | it's a value defined by BRL-CAD and repeatedly checked for validity in the case of bug injection or bad compilation logic |
| 05:38.39 | IriX64 | well my crap not only smells good it does what its supposed now :) |
| 05:39.07 | brlcad | it's still crap |
| 05:39.22 | IriX64 | but crap that works is no longer crap |
| 05:39.30 | brlcad | that's BS |
| 05:39.35 | brlcad | you've just masked the problem |
| 05:39.40 | brlcad | and created an unstable system |
| 05:39.51 | IriX64 | urf ok just ignore that snippit i pasted |
| 05:40.00 | brlcad | there's no guarantee now that you might coorrupt a geometry database or cause other harm |
| 05:40.19 | IriX64 | man we're dealing with video here its not rocket science. |
| 05:40.21 | brlcad | just because it no longer aborts doesn't mean the problem is fixed, it aborted for a very important reason |
| 05:40.36 | IriX64 | yeah the damn numbers didint match. |
| 05:40.53 | IriX64 | one is supplied by me one by u go figure. |
| 05:41.02 | brlcad | that's just the check |
| 05:41.08 | brlcad | do you even realize what the check means? |
| 05:41.14 | IriX64 | but it bombs on a simple open |
| 05:41.23 | brlcad | it means you have corrupted memory, the wrong data |
| 05:41.36 | brlcad | which means just about *anything* can happen |
| 05:41.46 | brlcad | random crashes, unstable behavior, data corruption |
| 05:42.04 | brlcad | that's absurd |
| 05:42.11 | IriX64 | goats gotten, as i say you're free to ignore it. |
| 05:42.41 | brlcad | well, just don't waste my time later with any other issues then, because that is a deal-breaker |
| 05:42.53 | brlcad | flat out, you're on your own |
| 05:43.07 | IriX64 | sure if im going to hassle you ill recompile with that in it ok? |
| 05:43.34 | IriX64 | err yours in it. |
| 05:43.48 | IriX64 | simple #ifdef for sean ... |
| 05:44.20 | IriX64 | ill even add it to configure ;) |
| 05:44.29 | IriX64 | --for-sean |
| 05:46.31 | brlcad | the fact it even works is interesting, perhaps a side effect of the prevalence of aliasing and struct alignments |
| 05:46.44 | brlcad | but it's entirely unpredictable behavior |
| 05:47.39 | brlcad | what's bothersome is that you seem to think there's nothing wrong with the change you've made as if you understand the full implications .. I do not believe that to be the case |
| 05:48.43 | brlcad | i'm not just being pedantic about the check, there is a problem there that may or may not be benign, but it's an entirely unpredictable system and as a solid modeling system predictability and security of user data is paramount important |
| 05:51.21 | brlcad | Maloeran: brl-cad doesn't use the magic numbers just for debugging, it's fundamental to various data integrity tests and assurance that the application will shut down the instant an unexpected situation is detected so as not to corrupt data .. the user's data is vastly (several orders) more important than the application |
| 05:52.50 | brlcad | there is a compile-time switch to turn off the actual checks and run-time debugging aspects of those checks, but we don't even ship binaries with that option .. it's intended for specific jobs where you know that an error won't be encountered and want the 5-50% performance gain |
| 05:55.25 | brlcad | as for actually removing the magic variables at compile-time, it's rather bad-practice to change the size of your structs between modes of compilation -- you change alignments, can mask errors, and can introduce new problems in itself |
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| 06:58.23 | IriX64 | x works |
| 07:16.12 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 07:17.35 | ``Erik | removing struct magic isn't going to buy you anything, just bring grief... |
| 07:19.30 | ``Erik | yeah, it burns a clock in some functions, but if it ever follows the 'off' branch path, it's a serious error, so performance wise it's an "optimal" jne |
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| 12:43.50 | brlcad | our application has been entered |
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| 13:40.21 | Maloeran | Makes sense, brlcad. I guess the magic checks aren't too present in the critical performance loops |
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| 15:48.48 | Maloeran | Mmhm, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6441631.stm |
| 16:53.03 | IriX64 | used the wrong code tree, goof that I am, there goes another hour. |
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| 19:05.08 | IriX64 | wikipedia knows nothing of glEnable() (cept for a java wrapper) :) |
| 19:06.17 | IriX64 | should have all ansi programming references there :) |
| 19:22.32 | brlcad | it's also directly editable.. if you want to add something that's missing, you can directly do so |
| 19:38.44 | IriX64 | doesn't that cause a mess? |
| 19:39.37 | IriX64 | who keeps track of what i add it could be blatantly a lie. |
| 19:47.42 | ``Erik | oh neat, they're running 'the prisoner' on bbc, first episode starts in 10 minutes |
| 20:54.42 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:01.34 | IriX64 | mc |
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| 22:57.03 | Maloeran | Exclusive games or ports? |
| 22:59.32 | ``Erik | software at all |
| 23:00.04 | ``Erik | http://www.lemon64.com/games/list.php?type=year&name=1999&submit.x=0&submit.y=0 |
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| 23:16.38 | IriX64 | some lemon for your tequila ``Erik :) |
| 23:18.26 | Maloeran | 1999... We had 3d accelerated games and megabytes of RAM then, very surprising to see C64 games |
| 23:19.10 | Maloeran | Then again, some people in Efnet's #asm still write code for that platform, for some poorly defined reason |
| 23:19.34 | IriX64 | why is amigaos in config.sub? |
| 23:21.23 | IriX64 | likewise ibm370 ;) |
| 23:21.38 | IriX64 | mvs mmmmm |
| 23:26.15 | ``Erik | config.sub is a GNU provided file that supports an obscene # of os's |
| 23:26.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:26.44 | ``Erik | I've had urges to write c64 asm in the last few months |
| 23:27.16 | ``Erik | it's good to understand the history |
| 23:27.48 | ``Erik | I also use hand-tools when I have equivelant powertools, and I cook things from scratch that I could buy pre-prepared at a restraunt or a grocers frozen section |
| 23:27.50 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 23:27.59 | ``Erik | c64 asm was fun... |
| 23:28.03 | ``Erik | x86 is anything but. |
| 23:28.38 | ``Erik | mips asm was fun, too... unfortunate that it didn't gain traction like that horrible intel klugefuck |
| 23:30.27 | Maloeran | amd64 & SSE is bearable |
| 23:31.33 | IriX64 | ``Erik i'm a pdp sort so I know what you speak of :) |
| 23:32.04 | ``Erik | the sse2 api is, uh, fugly? :) |
| 23:32.16 | ``Erik | I d'no what exactly the differences between amd64 and x86 are |
| 23:32.38 | IriX64 | both based on segments unfortunatly |
| 23:33.23 | Maloeran | Segments? Not quite |
| 23:33.25 | ``Erik | heh, x86 style segment addressing still boggles me... I mean, "toy" computers of the 80's had moved to paged addressing |
| 23:33.30 | bjorkBSD | a pdp sort? he's a COBOL programmer :O |
| 23:33.30 | IriX64 | SSE? elucidate ive been hiding from the industry for a while. |
| 23:33.35 | ``Erik | 70's, even |
| 23:33.42 | ``Erik | the c64 had sorta paged memory |
| 23:33.54 | IriX64 | heh picture this picture that :) |
| 23:33.56 | ``Erik | absolute wiht fixed size, but .... O.o not offset |
| 23:34.40 | Maloeran | Erik, I was wondering something. Why don't they make chips able to buffer, let's say, 4 threads per core... and whenever there's a cache miss, it switches execution to another thread until execution can continue? |
| 23:35.03 | ``Erik | uhh, I d'no? :D |
| 23:35.09 | Maloeran | I think it would be a fairly nice design, considering how cache misses are typically such a large bottleneck |
| 23:35.12 | ``Erik | feel free to patent the idea *cough* |
| 23:35.20 | Maloeran | Pft :p |
| 23:35.27 | ``Erik | just remember, silicon costs, and you're talking about doing that in silicon |
| 23:35.40 | bjorkBSD | common sand? |
| 23:35.48 | bjorkBSD | ... washed with common water? :P |
| 23:35.55 | bjorkBSD | the beach becons |
| 23:36.04 | Maloeran | Erik, it would simplify chip design on many other aspects |
| 23:36.07 | bjorkBSD | *k |
| 23:36.27 | ``Erik | mal: do you have a silicon emulator? |
| 23:36.28 | IriX64 | prefer quadruple cache 1=instructions current 2- instructions probable 3= data current 4=data probable. |
| 23:36.29 | Maloeran | They could focus on just having multiple cores processing a large buffer of threads, rather than trying desesperately to make one thread run as fast as possible |
| 23:36.39 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:36.49 | ``Erik | in school, I got a copy of "mmlogic" I think... |
| 23:36.53 | ``Erik | windows only |
| 23:37.05 | ``Erik | but building a pipelined gpu in it was ... educational |
| 23:37.09 | Maloeran | Whenever there's a resource bottleneck, such as cache misses, it could suspend the thread and move to another one |
| 23:38.09 | Maloeran | It would be an elegant way to keep all processing resources busy, while completely hiding the memory latency |
| 23:38.36 | ``Erik | but youd' be talking about building a full-up scheduler in silicon |
| 23:38.51 | Maloeran | Not a scheduler, just a small buffer of 4 threads per core |
| 23:39.13 | ``Erik | small, yes, but a scheduler... :D |
| 23:39.20 | Maloeran | Fine :p |
| 23:39.46 | ``Erik | and process scheduling is very much a non-solved aspect |
| 23:40.33 | Maloeran | Come on, this is simple. Whenever a thread hits a cache miss, or requires the FDIV unit blocked by another thread, just switch to the next one |
| 23:40.39 | ``Erik | unless you admit that the ingo O(1) scheduler jsut shoved in linux is no better than the ancient BSD 'fair use' scheduler... |
| 23:40.56 | ``Erik | WHICH next one? |
| 23:41.04 | Maloeran | Any other of its 4 threads! |
| 23:41.16 | IriX64 | and if they all block? |
| 23:41.19 | ``Erik | but which any? the one waiting for the result of the first? |
| 23:41.20 | Maloeran | The OS can do correct thread management, the chip will just try to keep its resources busy |
| 23:41.25 | ``Erik | the one waiting on the disk read? |
| 23:43.00 | IriX64 | could put in a deadman timer i guess Maloeran. |
| 23:43.01 | Maloeran | It doesn't have to be fancy at all, there's the OS to do all the careful and proper thread management |
| 23:43.38 | ``Erik | and what if it makes the kernel 1000x uglier to cope with the 2% speed boost? :D |
| 23:43.54 | ``Erik | dude, get a silicon simulator, try your idea out... if it works |
| 23:43.59 | ``Erik | fucking patent it and start a biz |
| 23:43.59 | Maloeran | The point is just to switch between multiple threads currently awaiting processing in order to nicely hide the memory latency, while keeping processing resources busy |
| 23:44.25 | Maloeran | Processing speed keeps increasing, memory is lagging behind, I think this is a solution to solve the issue |
| 23:45.33 | ``Erik | but I tend to use computers as data manipulators on large sets, not fast simple repetitive crunchers :) |
| 23:46.09 | Maloeran | Exactly, wouldn't you prefer to fully hide the horrible latency of accessing your large sets which are never in cache? :) |
| 23:46.21 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:46.32 | ``Erik | the data sets taht start to irk me are too big to fit in ram |
| 23:46.36 | ``Erik | and i have boxen with LOTS of ram |
| 23:46.37 | Maloeran | Multiple threads managed by the hardware really are the solution |
| 23:46.48 | ``Erik | I mean, my laptops have 2g a whack, they're tiny... |
| 23:46.57 | ``Erik | the boxes I "work" on are 8g and 32g |
| 23:47.03 | ``Erik | g as in gigabytes of ram |
| 23:47.13 | Maloeran | Fine, stop just loading data, and start doing some number crunching on it :) |
| 23:47.26 | ``Erik | but in grinding over 500gb of data, *shrug* |
| 23:47.53 | Maloeran | Bah. So it's not useful to you. You do see the point of the design, right? |
| 23:48.07 | ``Erik | my cpu's almost never cook up anything notable in 'user' cpu... :) |
| 23:48.36 | ``Erik | it could be useful, yeah... figure out the details, if it's really a win, patent it and make your zillion dollars |
| 23:48.50 | ``Erik | then you can 'retire' and do what you want instead of trying to make a living :) |
| 23:49.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:49.18 | ``Erik | solve the problem of paying bills. |
| 23:49.19 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:50.04 | ``Erik | I mean, if you push this 'interesting problem' and make a few million bucks, you can get away with never trying to "make money" ever again, right? |
| 23:50.30 | ``Erik | so you can focus on 'interesting' problems without worrying about rent or paying for lunch |
| 23:50.31 | ``Erik | no? |
| 23:50.43 | Maloeran | Designing a chip to take on AMD is not something I can do alone within a reasonable time frame |
| 23:51.15 | ``Erik | a defendable patent can be sold to the likes of amd *shrug* |
| 23:51.26 | Maloeran | Anyway, I think the ideas are good if anyone here likes gazillion stuff |
| 23:52.22 | dtidrow_work | got a question for you all - which linux file system is best for handling lots of files in a single directory? |
| 23:53.37 | dtidrow_work | and that's available on linux? |
| 23:54.00 | Maloeran | dtidrow_work, reading, writing, creating or deleting many files? |
| 23:54.09 | ``Erik | but my 'big' dir is only 13000 files |
| 23:54.17 | dtidrow_work | reading atm |
| 23:54.24 | ``Erik | no, ufs is a UNIX fs, default for freebsd O:-) |
| 23:54.31 | Maloeran | Then reiser4 |
| 23:54.45 | dtidrow_work | is it actually available? |
| 23:54.54 | dtidrow_work | thought it was still 'beta' |
| 23:55.26 | Maloeran | Ah yes, that's probably right... Reiser3 is in the kernel sources though, of coursee |
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| 03:13.33 | louipc | ew |
| 06:14.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 06:14.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: add at least three (rather minor, all with workarounds) bugs noticed relating to |
| 06:14.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: libfb/ray-tracer file redirection. libfb cannot utilize standard output/error |
| 06:14.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 'device' files (e.g. /dev/stdout) without path trickery, using such a device |
| 06:14.04 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: fails if used with a pipe or redirect, and the ray-tracers output corrupted |
| 06:14.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: imagery if using -o to a non-seekable file (like /dev/stdout). |
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| 13:53.25 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 14:54.02 | Maloeran | Grah, I'm really bad sometimes. Struggling a moment with merely solving boolean operations on 2d polygons |
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| 15:39.21 | IriX64 | brlcad: I've abandoned that convertor thing you asked me to do, don't know enough about the various formats, and lack test facilities for those, easiest way for you ppl though is convert one way then convert back to where you started from, should get an exact copy of what you started with. |
| 16:24.38 | IriX64 | now to learn how to interact with adrt/rise. |
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| 17:44.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:47.33 | ``Erik | g-dxf -o moss.dxf moss.g all.g && dxf-g moss.dxf moss-new.g && mged moss-new.g .... then e up the top level and see if it looks right... |
| 17:47.40 | ``Erik | don't really need to know much about the formats |
| 18:05.13 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: pixcmp now reports non-zero code for off-by-one results. handle the new/expected return values. |
| 19:51.04 | IriX64 | ``Erik, i don't speak nix cmd lin :) |
| 20:19.20 | brlcad | wicked |
| 20:19.46 | brlcad | turning off debugging symbols actually decreased performance by a solid amount |
| 20:20.55 | brlcad | 25%! |
| 20:21.27 | brlcad | that's gotta be some massive alignment/coherency penalty going on |
| 20:22.00 | dtidrow_work | talk about bizarre |
| 20:24.20 | brlcad | yeah, both O3, exact same options .. just one with -g and one without |
| 20:24.49 | brlcad | adding alignment flags to see |
| 20:28.32 | ``Erik | brlcad, what am I doing wrong or stupidly? error: cannot find interface declaration for 'NSObject', superclass of 'NSAppleMenuController |
| 20:29.15 | brlcad | #include <CoreFoundation/CoreFoundation.h> |
| 20:29.55 | ``Erik | still get it :/ |
| 20:30.29 | brlcad | er, one of those |
| 20:30.30 | ``Erik | even added "-framework CoreFoundation" to the compile line to see if it fixes something, but *shrug* no joy |
| 20:30.34 | brlcad | try Foundation/Foundation |
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| 20:33.13 | ``Erik | hm, Foundation seems to be fixing some of it |
| 20:38.20 | ``Erik | yeah, heh |
| 20:38.34 | ``Erik | this .m file is... not... healthy... |
| 20:38.48 | ``Erik | at least, not for the twisted way I'm trying to abuse it O:-) |
| 20:38.51 | ``Erik | thanks :D |
| 20:39.18 | brlcad | SDLMain.m? |
| 20:39.34 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 20:39.36 | ``Erik | ahhhhhh |
| 20:39.43 | ``Erik | #import <Cocoa/Cocoa.h> made it all happy |
| 20:40.08 | brlcad | heh, including the kitchen sink usually does |
| 20:41.14 | brlcad | you do realize that there's an SDLMain.h too? |
| 20:41.34 | brlcad | that includes SDL.h, Cocoa.h, and declares the interface correctly |
| 20:43.45 | ``Erik | ah, heh, didn't notice it... the .m didn't import it :/ |
| 21:12.53 | brlcad | ahh, function/jump/loop alignment alone restored performance back to within about 95% .. i bet it'd be all back if I added a few more related flags |
| 21:13.52 | brlcad | do we have any popular systems that aren't aligned on 16 other than hpc? |
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| 21:35.19 | Maloeran | Very often, chunks of memory from malloc() are only aligned on 8 bytes |
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| 23:54.50 | ``Erik | .. that depends on OS |
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| 00:22.48 | Maloeran | Hence the "very often" part |
| 00:25.12 | brlcad | don't care about the rate, care about the prevalence :P |
| 00:26.34 | brlcad | aligning to 8 is fine anyways, the problems would be alignments > 16 or non % 8 |
| 00:35.34 | Maloeran | *nods* Overlooking SSE, the cache memory can prefer getting proper alignment for chunks of 16,32,64 bytes |
| 00:38.03 | brlcad | what I really need is a configure test that compares 8, 16, 32, 64 to see which is fastest for some simple operation |
| 01:12.50 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056388.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:24.45 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056388.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 06:08.38 | ``Erik | I put in a ticket to get that del 2450 offically recognized and permitted... but the hw seems to have issues... |
| 07:13.48 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-125.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:18.18 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (termcap.src Makefile.am): add a termcap source file, version 9.13.25, pulled from NetBSD. avoids license issues and works with existing library sources. |
| 07:18.50 | Maloeran | Darn. You make me check in the source, and fbsd's malloc really does align on 16 bytes |
| 07:19.53 | Maloeran | It seems a bit weaker than Linux's though, and of course suffers the same problem of a global mutex lock |
| 07:20.27 | Maloeran | Posix threads could have included proper scalable memory management as part of the standard |
| 07:32.24 | brlcad | you would probably appreciate the results from a raw malloc benchmark that I wrote/ran several years ago |
| 07:33.09 | brlcad | it allocated memory across the entire spectrum of allocation sizes, looking at the raw allocation performance numbers |
| 07:33.32 | brlcad | ran the test on most operating systems available at the time, with some wildly surprising results in some cases |
| 07:34.58 | brlcad | you could see the see various allocation size optimizations that some libraries catered too, pathalogical horror allocation sizes, performance scalability |
| 07:55.28 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (10 files): |
| 07:55.28 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: update from the old vi termcap sources to the more modern NetBSD implementation. |
| 07:55.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: this version doesn't suffer the assumption that there needs to be an |
| 07:55.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: /etc/termcap among many other improvements. it's under 3-clause BSD and seems |
| 07:55.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: to be version 0.6 dated December 17, 2006. |
| 08:12.26 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/configure.ac: use newer autoconf/automake symantics |
| 08:12.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: include the manpage in the dist, clean up after junk. makes a local make distcheck work for enigma. |
| 08:36.29 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: also search in BRLCAD_DATA/etc for a termcap file. quell warning on cgetent() constness. |
| 08:36.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/Makefile.am: install the termcap.src file into BRLCAD_DATA/etc |
| 08:38.16 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: just use dist_mans |
| 08:42.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed jove/termcap issues on Mac OS X |
| 08:44.58 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: updated bundled libtermcap to NetBSD version 0.6 |
| 08:48.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/vfont.c librt/vshoot.c): bu_malloc is guaranteed to never return NULL, so remove the unnecessary checks |
| 10:02.41 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 11:59.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: |
| 11:59.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: missing return statements added |
| 11:59.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: min and max initialized |
| 11:59.50 | clock_ | brlcad: did you manage to repair some of the buggers I reported? |
| 12:14.41 | *** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:31.33 | brlcad | you never saw it? |
| 13:33.10 | brlcad | it made Apple reimplement their malloc between 10.2 and 10.3 (and what an improvement they made..) |
| 13:37.04 | ``Erik | don't believe I've seen it, no... I know you've told me about it, but ... |
| 13:38.22 | brlcad | pretty simple code, came up with it back in college days as a way to take down the uni's servers |
| 13:38.48 | ``Erik | :) |
| 13:38.49 | brlcad | could outright lock everyone out of the system on-demand, even consolers |
| 13:38.51 | archivist | naughty boy |
| 13:39.27 | brlcad | but that was also just due to the "inexperience" of those sys admins to figure out how to counter it |
| 13:40.09 | brlcad | later turned it into a basic stresser, added some timers, started making graphs .. found lots of surprising results quickly across implementations |
| 13:40.18 | archivist | uni has to be a good training for sysadmins |
| 13:40.37 | brlcad | indeed :) |
| 13:40.57 | ``Erik | hrm, probably failry easy to bin os's by which allocator they use |
| 13:41.22 | ``Erik | dl vs phk ... |
| 13:48.02 | *** join/#brlcad ak_real (n=d4b0f9ad@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:32.06 | brlcad | aha! |
| 16:23.00 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 16:28.59 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 16:45.14 | IriX64 | ./configure --for-sean built successfully, but without opengl sigh. |
| 16:45.47 | IriX64 | 7.6.2 however opengl works yay :) |
| 16:46.25 | IriX64 | heh man the parts weren't made to fit ;) |
| 16:46.50 | clock_ | IriX64: you mean overlap? |
| 16:47.30 | IriX64 | _clock I mean as you and me unles you're a woman of course. |
| 16:47.40 | IriX64 | oh man... |
| 16:47.54 | IriX64 | modelling it? how would you get it built? |
| 16:49.24 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 16:49.45 | IriX64 | there's a picture of the opengl window on my space, forget what number. |
| 16:50.28 | IriX64 | www.spaces.live.com/irix64 |
| 16:51.44 | IriX64 | its called ogl |
| 17:00.16 | IriX64 | mmmm x works, got a havoc uo on the screen. |
| 17:00.22 | IriX64 | up too. |
| 17:03.16 | IriX64 | that "x" pix i just uploaded is 7.8.4. |
| 17:04.24 | IriX64 | before you wonder, I have nothing but time on my hands and i love playing with software. |
| 17:06.25 | IriX64 | rt however says rt: can't open frame buffer, no cuch device "/dev/ogll"/ |
| 17:07.04 | brlcad | should be using /dev/Xl |
| 17:07.17 | IriX64 | i just typed rt |
| 17:07.22 | IriX64 | no parameters |
| 17:07.26 | brlcad | then you have FB_FILE set somewhere |
| 17:07.35 | IriX64 | shouldnt it default to what you have up? |
| 17:07.54 | IriX64 | syas opengl wasn't built. |
| 17:08.05 | brlcad | it defaults to what it was compiled to use, unless FB_FILE is set or unless you specify |
| 17:08.14 | IriX64 | ty ill look |
| 17:08.17 | brlcad | the "fbhelp" command lists the default and all others supported |
| 17:08.25 | IriX64 | ty again |
| 17:11.05 | IriX64 | christ man its used everywhere but its not in the ./include dir files at all unless im missing it. |
| 17:11.25 | brlcad | huh? |
| 17:11.42 | brlcad | FB_FILE is an environment variable, nothing to do with the source code |
| 17:11.58 | brlcad | fbhelp is a command (outside of mged) |
| 17:12.11 | IriX64 | my mistake thought it was a define somewhere :) |
| 17:13.05 | brlcad | "brlman fbhelp" explains |
| 17:13.21 | IriX64 | ty ill read it. |
| 17:18.20 | IriX64 | what dir plz brlcad i can't find it. |
| 17:19.28 | IriX64 | looking in html docs dir. |
| 17:20.21 | brlcad | what dir what? |
| 17:20.35 | IriX64 | ill look later, cot a compile to set in motion at the moment. |
| 17:20.51 | brlcad | i have no idea what you're asking for |
| 17:20.59 | brlcad | brlman and fbhelp are *commands* |
| 17:21.07 | brlcad | like mged and rt are commands |
| 17:21.13 | brlcad | there are lots and lots of commands |
| 17:21.23 | IriX64 | scuse while I eat egg :) |
| 17:21.28 | brlcad | you don't look for them -- they should be in your path |
| 17:23.25 | IriX64 | say whatever happened to -doxygen? |
| 17:23.44 | IriX64 | deprecated? |
| 17:29.33 | brlcad | your question continues to fail parsing |
| 17:29.49 | brlcad | doxygen comments are used throughout the sources |
| 17:37.47 | IriX64 | the switch is gone or at least it doesn't appear in the summary anymore. |
| 17:53.39 | brlcad | what switch? |
| 17:54.40 | IriX64 | --enable-doxygen |
| 17:55.20 | IriX64 | its in 7.6.2 |
| 17:56.20 | IriX64 | and there used to be a line in the summary, i just noticed in 7.8.4 trhat line isn't there anymore. |
| 17:57.19 | IriX64 | its also in ./configure --help, let me check 7.8.4 |
| 17:58.29 | IriX64 | not there anymore. |
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| 17:59.05 | brlcad | ahh, configure option |
| 17:59.13 | brlcad | helps to be specific |
| 17:59.30 | brlcad | the switch didn't do anything in 7.6.2 |
| 18:00.03 | brlcad | so it was removed until someone actually adds the functionality |
| 18:00.04 | IriX64 | let generate a 7.6.2 configure i'll pastebin it for you. |
| 18:00.08 | brlcad | please don't |
| 18:00.11 | IriX64 | ok |
| 18:00.57 | brlcad | i'm quite familiar with what we did and do .. you just had originally said "-doxygen" without even mentioning configure and without that even being the option |
| 18:01.10 | brlcad | i know it was removed, i removed it |
| 18:01.11 | IriX64 | sorry |
| 18:01.13 | brlcad | because it did nothing |
| 18:01.38 | brlcad | now, if you're volunteering to make it actually do something .. like run doxygen, that would be sweet |
| 18:01.58 | brlcad | otherwise, "patches welcome" |
| 18:06.25 | ak_real | hello people! |
| 18:06.36 | ak_real | i'm a newcomer... |
| 18:13.11 | ak_real | i would like to take part in GSoC and became a BRL-CAD developer... who should i contact to discuss that? |
| 18:21.34 | Maloeran | If you have features or improvements in mind to add, I'm sure brlcad will welcome good patches |
| 18:26.21 | archivist | lurk in here and join the mailing list |
| 18:31.51 | ak_real | oh thx! where can i find mailing list? |
| 18:32.14 | ``Erik | sf.net/projects/brlcad |
| 18:45.24 | IriX64 | brlcad ty -M -F0 does nicely. |
| 18:53.26 | brlcad | ak_real: you're in the right place.. but have to wait until orgs are announced |
| 18:54.04 | brlcad | we're not guaranteed a slot, and might not be approved .. we find out later today |
| 18:54.58 | brlcad | that said, even if we're not approved, there are independent job opportunities available ;) |
| 19:00.45 | ak_real | it is interesting too, because i need some CAD-related practice for my school this summer... |
| 19:02.08 | brlcad | we are really the only choice for open source CAD, but whether it's a direction google wants to support this year is of course up to them (we never applied before this year) |
| 19:02.40 | brlcad | ak_real: what sort of project did you have in mind, and have you seen our ideas page? |
| 19:10.06 | ak_real | yeah, i read it a lot of times :) i like the idea about BREP operations, because we had geometric modeling lectures at school and it's interesting to try them on practice |
| 19:10.14 | ``Erik | hum, halfway down the page "The effectively amounts to..." |
| 19:10.32 | ``Erik | (in dual-rep geometry support) |
| 19:12.31 | brlcad | ak_real: ahh, excellent |
| 19:12.45 | brlcad | that's actually one of the most interesting/appealing topics at the moment |
| 19:14.03 | ak_real | it's strong math skills requirement there... i had such skills about 3 years ago, but now i may take a look in some books, am i right? |
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| 19:14.24 | ``Erik | please to be chmod 775 on directory |
| 19:14.53 | ``Erik | meh, I'll just sudo |
| 19:15.14 | brlcad | all web content is owned by www |
| 19:15.16 | brlcad | sudo -u www |
| 19:18.13 | brlcad | more than pondering apparently |
| 19:18.55 | ``Erik | for a in `jot 1000` ; do sudo -u www echo "eek, I'm being spied on!" ; done |
| 19:19.32 | brlcad | ak_real: pretty strong math skills required .. but yeah, using a book to refesh wouldn't be uncalled for ;) |
| 19:20.43 | brlcad | having it evaluate as fast as possible (e.g. real-time) is going to be the hardest part I fear |
| 19:21.11 | brlcad | especially for arbitrary operations |
| 19:22.20 | ``Erik | "Kaleido" ? |
| 19:23.00 | brlcad | huh? |
| 19:24.42 | ``Erik | in doc/IDEAS |
| 19:24.54 | ``Erik | last one with numbered difficulty/time |
| 19:29.10 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 19:29.24 | brlcad | just a random idea |
| 19:30.45 | brlcad | Kaleido is a nifty 3D geometry code that generates various mathematical shapes |
| 19:31.50 | brlcad | would make for a sweet mged plugin for the math types |
| 19:31.56 | brlcad | e.g. http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/data/ |
| 19:32.30 | brlcad | http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/dual.html |
| 19:32.57 | ``Erik | hm, neat |
| 19:33.15 | brlcad | would be even better as a direct primitive that would take those same equations as the parameters |
| 19:33.28 | brlcad | to get all those shapes from one primitive.. sweet ;) |
| 19:33.39 | ak_real | it's time to go to bed for me... see you tommorow... big THX for this warm chat ;) |
| 19:33.53 | ``Erik | night, ak_real o.O |
| 19:33.56 | brlcad | ak_real: nice talking to ya! |
| 19:34.06 | ak_real | thx ) |
| 19:34.37 | *** part/#brlcad ak_real (i=ak_real@87.249.59.53) | |
| 19:42.24 | ``Erik | heh, op-bw, neat |
| 19:44.15 | ``Erik | yay, pi day |
| 19:45.03 | ``Erik | just like warm apple pi |
| 19:46.10 | archivist | home made lemon merangue pie |
| 20:32.31 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (termcap.c tgoto.c tputs.c tputws.c): we don't provide the __RCSID macro that netbsd provided, comment it out. |
| 21:05.41 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.17) | |
| 21:06.10 | brlcad | gaaaaaaaah |
| 21:06.16 | brlcad | damn termlib |
| 21:07.08 | brlcad | thought I had a successful compile last night, but turns out that the impl is based on a slew of functionality that is in BSD libc, not gnu's |
| 21:07.20 | brlcad | so linux is giving major hissy fits |
| 21:38.37 | louipc | wow over 10K downloads / month? |
| 21:38.40 | louipc | where is everybody? |
| 21:40.25 | brlcad | the vast majority aren't devs or otherwise interested in participating apparently |
| 21:41.35 | brlcad | that's where I believe work on the website and modeler interface would do well to hook lots of folks' interest |
| 21:42.10 | louipc | yeah that's what I just thought. They ran away after a taste of mged. |
| 21:42.20 | archivist | sexy gui would make the real difference |
| 21:45.23 | louipc | and java applets to look at models |
| 21:45.31 | louipc | har har |
| 21:54.31 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669545.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:23.23 | brlcad | louipc: heh, the guy that (mostly) wrote mged actually has that working .. (java applet) |
| 22:24.35 | brlcad | never took it to a functional state though, just playing around and got some geometry up iirc (like 4 years ago) |
| 22:29.00 | ``Erik | bob? |
| 22:31.21 | brlcad | yeah |
| 23:06.55 | IriX64 | that little 5-clicks thing does png. |
| 23:08.23 | IriX64 | poor ValarQ ... I sent her image after image for a while :) |
| 23:12.15 | brlcad | why would you do that? |
| 23:14.14 | IriX64 | she asked |
| 23:14.28 | IriX64 | so i did (did i screw up?) |
| 23:15.14 | IriX64 | you said those pix are gnu licence. |
| 23:17.04 | brlcad | she probably said "sure" to one image I bet.. and you let the flood gates open |
| 23:17.37 | IriX64 | heh a few but i stopped when she asked me why i kept spamming her, thought she was interested. |
| 23:17.57 | brlcad | see, if it comes to that .. then yes, you screwed up |
| 23:17.59 | IriX64 | she turned me on to irssi remember |
| 23:18.17 | IriX64 | man shwe was smiling... |
| 23:18.24 | brlcad | i.e. being polite |
| 23:18.41 | IriX64 | well whatever i got the message from her :) |
| 23:19.34 | brlcad | one or two images might be interesting, especially if the content was novel/unique/interesting.. beyond that, why would they want 5, 10, 15 images? |
| 23:19.48 | brlcad | especially when the first ones weren't really interesting |
| 23:20.08 | IriX64 | you speak for her do you |
| 23:20.13 | brlcad | i mean, i don't know what you sent.. they might have all been picaso's |
| 23:20.22 | brlcad | of course I don't |
| 23:20.28 | brlcad | i'm speaking in general |
| 23:20.35 | brlcad | just curious why |
| 23:20.48 | brlcad | because I frankly can't see why |
| 23:20.54 | IriX64 | she asked and gave me an email address to send it to. |
| 23:20.56 | Maloeran | I'm sorry to intrude, but who is the "her" being mentionned? |
| 23:21.13 | brlcad | ValarQ |
| 23:21.20 | IriX64 | ValarQ (not sure of gender) |
| 23:21.53 | IriX64 | but i took it short for Valarie, although I shouldnt assume i guess. |
| 23:33.52 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/.cvsignore: ignore the generated termcap file |
| 23:34.31 | IriX64 | man don't you ever rest :) |
| 23:35.49 | IriX64 | err wait what would that make me ;) |
| 23:44.32 | *** join/#brlcad cad28 (n=52f40aab@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:54.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (9 files): |
| 23:54.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: revert the NetBSD libtermcap library. there are too many dependency woes |
| 23:54.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: (getcap, db, fgetln, strlcpy) to make it work cleanly without bringing in all of |
| 23:54.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: db too. it was only working well under the osx/bsd's because everything |
| 23:54.49 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: happened to be available. |
| 00:13.05 | IriX64 | now instead of e-mailing them to people, I just post them on my blog :) |
| 00:16.01 | brlcad | that actually works much better.. don't have to wade |
| 00:16.13 | brlcad | i like a few of the shots |
| 00:16.41 | brlcad | would be cool if you started actually building something |
| 00:18.00 | IriX64 | the zeus mobile |
| 00:18.13 | IriX64 | gotta plan it first |
| 00:18.36 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/Makefile.am: version is no longer relevant/known again |
| 00:19.17 | IriX64 | brlcads clay is bits and bytes |
| 00:21.53 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: |
| 00:21.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: make it look for our installed termcap file before it uses the one in etc, since |
| 00:21.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: enabling termlib compilation implies functioning independent. if they want |
| 00:21.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: their termcap file, they can still set TERMCAP or link against their system |
| 00:21.54 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: terminfo/termcap/curses |
| 00:34.56 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:35.12 | brlcad | true |
| 00:35.16 | louipc | jove? |
| 00:35.23 | brlcad | yes? |
| 00:35.25 | brlcad | f'ing jove |
| 00:35.34 | brlcad | ~jove |
| 00:35.35 | ibot | jove is, like, njs's preferred little editor -- like emacs, but small. |
| 00:35.47 | brlcad | heh, didn't know that |
| 00:35.58 | Twingy | ~nano |
| 00:35.59 | ibot | methinks nano is at http://www.nano-editor.org/, or a DFSG-free alternative to pico, or 10^-9 |
| 00:36.14 | Twingy | ~gcam |
| 00:36.16 | ibot | hmm... gcam is the open source GNU Computer-Aided Machining project, developed by Justin Shumaker, for supporting basic CNC mills by directly exporting g-code to your favorite CNC driver application. See http://gcam.js.cx/ for details. |
| 00:36.16 | brlcad | ~jove is also "Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs" |
| 00:36.17 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 00:36.24 | Twingy | hah |
| 00:37.18 | IriX64 | for which horse :) (duck) |
| 00:37.30 | Twingy | your mom, oh snap! |
| 00:38.11 | IriX64 | youd prefer your sisyer my moms a crel ride. |
| 00:39.03 | Maloeran | ~universe |
| 00:39.05 | ibot | Space Strategy game. URL: http://rmi.net/~starkey/Universe/ |
| 00:39.29 | Twingy | ~42 |
| 00:39.31 | ibot | from memory, 42 is the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything |
| 00:39.35 | IriX64 | 42's only half the answer 84 is the full answer :) |
| 00:40.54 | Maloeran | Especially since the universe is 404 Not found |
| 00:41.12 | IriX64 | an http universe interesting equation :) |
| 00:42.15 | Twingy | Maloeran, how long does it take you to raytrace the universe |
| 00:42.47 | IriX64 | e=mc2^c2 |
| 00:43.19 | Maloeran | Not too sure, I'm still waiting for some rays to come out of a black hole |
| 00:46.26 | IriX64 | you're raytracing in reverse then :) |
| 00:47.26 | Twingy | Maloeran, better put some rays on the event horizon to see what's going on with them |
| 00:48.22 | Maloeran | Yes, there must be a bug in my graph prep, they seem stuck in an infinite loop |
| 00:49.37 | Twingy | just rub your feet together on the carpet and touch your ram |
| 00:49.41 | Twingy | that'll get it unstuck |
| 00:59.07 | IriX64 | stray photons will too |
| 01:07.44 | ``Erik | *pout* this sucks |
| 01:07.49 | ``Erik | my laptop only has 2g ram |
| 01:07.55 | ``Erik | I can't model irix64's mom :( |
| 01:08.02 | Twingy | oh snap! |
| 01:16.11 | IriX64 | you're using the male model thats why :) |
| 01:16.22 | IriX64 | she doesn't have one of those :) |
| 01:17.02 | Twingy | she has two? |
| 01:17.19 | IriX64 | breasts yeah just like you :) |
| 01:17.20 | Twingy | irix64smom.cx |
| 01:17.31 | Twingy | don't make fun of my man bewbs |
| 01:17.45 | IriX64 | mine are a c cup :) |
| 01:17.53 | Twingy | ...or else I'll you on wendy's mailing list |
| 01:18.04 | Twingy | (dooh dooh doooooo organ music) |
| 01:18.08 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:18.18 | IriX64 | means i have to work for a living? no thanks... :) |
| 01:18.26 | ``Erik | omfg, wendys mailing list, that's just fucking COLD |
| 01:19.00 | IriX64 | not knowing who wendy is i have to bow out but ill let gionnii know :) |
| 01:20.38 | ``Erik | irix: of the folk paid by uncle sam.. when we grouse and bitch and generally act disgruntled... that's response to our good friend miss wendy. |
| 01:21.24 | IriX64 | uncle sams wife? |
| 01:21.27 | Twingy | within 24 hours of my transfer taking effect I will be removed from the shackles of her mailing list |
| 01:21.53 | IriX64 | shows who really runs the military |
| 01:21.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:22.20 | ``Erik | ehhehheh |
| 01:22.31 | ``Erik | y'know |
| 01:22.42 | ``Erik | I was doing some computation today |
| 01:23.03 | brlcad | me too! |
| 01:23.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:23.59 | IriX64 | gotta go... kid needs a ride. |
| 01:24.27 | ``Erik | if I sold my house today and moved back to missouri.... |
| 01:24.54 | ``Erik | I would have like a fucking mansion and a fistful of 'extra' crash |
| 01:25.14 | ``Erik | it REALLY makes me think about moving back to hillbilly land and starting my own co |
| 01:25.17 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 01:25.49 | Twingy | have to keep in mind if you decide later in life to want to move to a pricey area you'll be dirt poor |
| 01:25.57 | Twingy | so that limits you to like mid west |
| 01:27.04 | Maloeran | Or up in Canada |
| 01:28.56 | ``Erik | parts of canuckia, I suppose |
| 01:29.28 | Maloeran | Any idea on what the company will offer, Erik? |
| 01:29.36 | ``Erik | 'the company'? |
| 01:29.52 | Maloeran | Within the context of "starting my own co" |
| 01:29.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:30.05 | ``Erik | nfc |
| 01:30.12 | Maloeran | Okay :) |
| 01:32.10 | ``Erik | I can lay code like a mofo, and I can do certain administrative fucntions... |
| 01:32.10 | ``Erik | like finances, uh, I can be hardcore on the financial aspect... |
| 01:32.30 | ``Erik | but the business/marketing/sales shit seriosuly aint' up my alley... I need a face person. |
| 01:32.45 | Twingy | ah, so you are brining gillich with you |
| 01:33.00 | ``Erik | heh, I d'no about gillich |
| 01:33.15 | Twingy | I would be a bad choice, I'd get bored of ``Erik's company (whatever it was) in 3 years and he'd be screwed |
| 01:33.20 | ``Erik | with appropiate steering, lee is capable there :/ |
| 01:33.45 | Twingy | seriously though |
| 01:33.50 | Twingy | when they fire wendy, you can bring her along |
| 01:33.56 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 01:34.08 | ``Erik | I, uh, kinda ment functional? |
| 01:34.35 | ``Erik | not th ekinda person who would bury an endeavor in unnecessary beaurocrocy... |
| 01:34.38 | ``Erik | sp |
| 01:34.52 | Twingy | I flew the twin again tonight |
| 01:35.01 | ``Erik | awesome |
| 01:35.03 | Twingy | that little toy is addictive |
| 01:35.14 | ``Erik | got someone with a radar gun to clokc you? :D |
| 01:35.17 | Twingy | I am ready to start packing electronics into it now |
| 01:35.28 | Twingy | as long as I can climb vertical that's all that matters :) |
| 01:35.40 | Twingy | will full tanks of gas |
| 01:35.51 | Twingy | *with |
| 01:36.05 | ``Erik | heh, vertical climb is an awful lot of unf |
| 01:37.51 | Twingy | figure it's got about 15 lbs of thrust |
| 01:38.16 | Twingy | probly 12 actually, fully loaded the plane is about 5-6 lbs |
| 01:38.58 | Twingy | doing an inverted dive with full throttle just rips it up |
| 01:39.16 | Twingy | a trainer would snap its wing in a heart beat |
| 01:40.33 | Maloeran | Considered a solar powered plane yet? :) |
| 01:41.14 | Twingy | already been done |
| 01:41.26 | Twingy | and those're no fun unless autonomous |
| 01:41.40 | Twingy | and I do that at work everyday |
| 01:41.40 | Maloeran | Not by amateurs flying indefinitely |
| 01:41.47 | Twingy | so no real fun |
| 01:41.59 | ``Erik | indefinitly sustainable solar autonmous aircraft would be... interesting |
| 01:42.24 | Twingy | it'd have to be huge to weather the cross winds |
| 01:42.42 | Maloeran | Then send it over the pacific to get you some pictures of Australia |
| 01:43.09 | ``Erik | like that massive nasa cruiser that flexed like a mofo in the wind |
| 01:43.22 | Twingy | if solar efficiency doubles you could charge up lipo's during the day while flying above clouds |
| 01:43.26 | ``Erik | the one that was like a 30' wingspan of solar panels |
| 01:44.18 | Twingy | heh |
| 01:44.26 | Twingy | I have an 1100maH nicad in the twin |
| 01:44.32 | Twingy | my hour and a half of flying tonight used up 200ma |
| 01:44.55 | Twingy | easily fly that all day on one charge' |
| 01:45.08 | Twingy | I need an 1100 for my xmitter |
| 01:45.23 | Twingy | the hitech sucks through that 600ma in just over 90 minutes |
| 01:45.38 | Twingy | though my triton can charge it up in about 60 |
| 01:46.55 | Twingy | I doubt that xmitter is 2W though |
| 01:47.00 | Twingy | they are usualy 500mW |
| 01:48.48 | Twingy | http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNKD7&P=0 |
| 02:23.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: gah, I thought I already committed this. traverse into enigma dir, don't just shove everything into the dist, else make distcheck thinks that it's already been configured and aborts. |
| 02:38.27 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:15.55 | IriX64 | ill try 7.8.4 tommorrow again. |
| 03:16.07 | IriX64 | quite happy with 7.6.2 tho. |
| 03:19.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h: tcl's regex.h header assumes that there is magic being provided by tclInt.h before it's included (for VOID and CONST among other examples) .. so just freaking include it and avoid a make dist error. |
| 03:37.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: vector headers are missing, bad distcheck, no donut for you |
| 03:41.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am svfb.h svfb_global.h): remove the obsolete svfb.h and svfb_global.h headers. they are part of urtoolkit and were replaced by rle_put.h and rle.h respectively. |
| 03:41.39 | *** join/#brlcad deltazap (n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 03:41.40 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669545.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 03:45.10 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am XtndRunsv.h): remove XtndRunsv.h as well, obsoleted in urt by rle_code.h |
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| 03:59.57 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: workin' late? :) |
| 05:13.14 | *** join/#brlcad cad41 (n=46382e0a@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 05:13.25 | cad41 | hello all :) |
| 05:14.14 | cad41 | i am in search of help on my mac with brlcad |
| 05:14.23 | cad41 | i cant seem to start it |
| 05:15.49 | cad41 | anyone alive in here? |
| 05:16.37 | Maloeran | You have tried running mged? Do you get any error message? I'm no expert on Mac, but it's built on Unix so... |
| 05:16.37 | cad41 | i did,and it did not do anything |
| 05:16.48 | Maloeran | If you start it from a terminal, does it print anything? |
| 05:16.57 | cad41 | i am no expert,but can do some basic linux/unix stuff |
| 05:17.09 | cad41 | i cant get it to start at all |
| 05:17.49 | cad41 | mike-campbells-computer:~ scottcampbell$ MGED |
| 05:18.03 | brlcad | cad41: type "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged" |
| 05:18.03 | cad41 | then i get nothing |
| 05:18.07 | brlcad | without the quotes |
| 05:18.24 | brlcad | with X11 running |
| 05:19.34 | cad41 | thank you |
| 05:19.36 | cad41 | :) |
| 05:19.55 | cad41 | ooops |
| 05:20.34 | cad41 | didnt work |
| 05:20.55 | brlcad | you're running X11? |
| 05:21.00 | cad41 | yes |
| 05:21.03 | cad41 | made sure of that |
| 05:21.15 | Maloeran | Try to give more information on what isn't working, it's a bit vague |
| 05:21.25 | Maloeran | Does it print anything in your terminal? |
| 05:21.36 | brlcad | you typed /usr/brlcad/bin/mged into the xterm window that popped open? |
| 05:21.46 | cad41 | it sayd no display name and no $display envoronment variable |
| 05:22.11 | brlcad | ah, type it into the xterm window instead of Terminal |
| 05:22.30 | brlcad | or run this in Terminal: export DISPLAY=:0 |
| 05:22.34 | cad41 | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable |
| 05:23.08 | brlcad | type the export line, then retry |
| 05:24.13 | cad41 | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...couldn't connect to display ":0" |
| 05:27.33 | Maloeran | As an unix but non-mac guy, I would say X doesn't seem to be running |
| 05:29.10 | cad41 | ok.i shall double check.thank you for the help |
| 05:32.26 | brlcad | if X11 is running (it's in your /Applications/Utilities folder), there will be a small white window open up in the top left corner entitled "xterm" |
| 05:34.36 | cad41 | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...X Error of failed request: BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) |
| 05:34.48 | cad41 | X is on |
| 05:35.15 | brlcad | ahh, Intel Mac |
| 05:35.15 | cad41 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:35.23 | cad41 | hahhaha |
| 05:35.23 | brlcad | there's a bug in apple's X11 |
| 05:35.59 | brlcad | cad41: there's a release going up this weekend that will have a fix for that, 7.10 |
| 05:36.14 | cad41 | from X? |
| 05:36.24 | cad41 | or apple? |
| 05:36.30 | brlcad | of BRL-CAD |
| 05:36.35 | cad41 | oh LOL |
| 05:36.36 | cad41 | i see |
| 05:36.40 | brlcad | we can work around the problem |
| 05:37.22 | cad41 | ahh to be a curious student......at age 40! |
| 05:37.27 | brlcad | X11 fails to talk to Rosetta correctly, so you get that opcode error |
| 05:37.55 | brlcad | a quick recompile for Intel fixes it up, or a universal binary |
| 05:38.15 | brlcad | the other command-line apps still work, but not the gui to mged |
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| 13:17.55 | Maloeran | *nods* Sure, that was just to say that I could perhaps help with the Unix part, not anything specific to OSX |
| 13:21.48 | tofu | ``Erik: so looks like it's a no go, off the hook |
| 13:22.25 | ``Erik | um, what, the gsoc? |
| 13:26.26 | brlcad | yeah |
| 13:26.53 | ``Erik | ah well *shrug* so we don't get to spend someone elses money for grunt-work development |
| 13:27.06 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 13:27.49 | ``Erik | I think the notion of a 'junior hacker' list is good to have around anyways, so I don't believe generating the document was wasteful *shrug* |
| 13:28.46 | ``Erik | even if no one else picks up on it, I might chew on something during one of my 'brain dead' days, which seem awfully common these last couple of years :/ |
| 13:29.39 | brlcad | actually, I thought that the list of rfp was a great page to put together regardless |
| 13:32.24 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/ others have done it before :D |
| 13:32.24 | ``Erik | the bsd one actually grew out of phk's "jr kernel hacker todo" list |
| 14:09.17 | brlcad | yep, nothing new, I meant more just clearing out thoughts on actual attainable projects that would make a big impact |
| 14:10.50 | brlcad | the rfp page is actually fairly well ordered towards what is most important at the moment too |
| 14:18.04 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 15:40.14 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: handle failed region in nmg conversion |
| 15:48.12 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/configure.ac: cvs BRL-CAD changed libtcl.so to libtcl8.5.so (on fbsd/linux... libtcl85.so on obsd and others) |
| 15:49.28 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: we cope with normals now, so don't have them marked as unused |
| 15:59.02 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874E47.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
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| 16:03.07 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: reorder |
| 16:29.50 | Maloeran | From BBC's history, the world's oldest person died at 114 on 29 Jan 07. On 15 March 2007, the world's oldest person turns 116. Find the error |
| 16:31.21 | clock_ | Died and then raised from the grave, a bit older (from decomposition) |
| 16:31.34 | clock_ | happens all the time, see Romeros movies |
| 16:33.32 | archivist | jurnalists are notorious for errors |
| 16:34.04 | archivist | if you want some fun email them about it see if you get it updated |
| 16:34.06 | clock_ | maybe the world's oldest person is the journalist |
| 16:34.25 | clock_ | and the brain doesn't serve as good as when he was young ;-) |
| 16:49.45 | ``Erik | clock: bug 1657171 (rtedge renders bullshit), the png file seems to be truncated? 24709 bytes, MD5 (bullshit.png) = 3ce18b1b378dd81e25c20d1a44f3f3c9 |
| 16:49.59 | ``Erik | (unless my browser is being retarded, which may very well be) |
| 16:50.43 | clock_ | ``Erik: URL? |
| 16:50.59 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1657171&group_id=105292&atid=640802 |
| 16:54.38 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (Makefile.am rtcmp.c dry/dry.c dry/dry.h): Add a 'dry run' engine to measure overhead and "warm up" the partition manager. Should abate worries about function call overhead. |
| 16:55.56 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: silence overlap reporting |
| 16:57.32 | clock_ | ``Erik: It's even broken on my disk. I don't know why |
| 16:58.35 | clock_ | ``Erik: But look at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:58.37 | clock_ | seach for chimney |
| 16:58.51 | ``Erik | always pimpin' your site ;) |
| 16:59.18 | clock_ | And then look at the lower left picture of the five |
| 16:59.36 | clock_ | The rtedge picture is just downscaled with image magick, and when you click you see the rt picture |
| 17:00.00 | ``Erik | the original rtedge image isn't available? |
| 17:00.04 | clock_ | ``Erik: you can see the notches on the downscaled one too |
| 17:00.12 | clock_ | I would have to generate it manually |
| 17:00.36 | ``Erik | ok, I'll just follow your instructions in the pr and see if it looks mucked up to me :) |
| 17:02.47 | clock_ | yeah try how long does it take? |
| 17:02.52 | clock_ | I'm curious :) |
| 17:03.01 | ``Erik | huh? to render on my machine? or? |
| 17:03.14 | clock_ | yes to set up the given version and download and render |
| 17:03.42 | clock_ | This is why it's good to have technology completely open |
| 17:03.58 | ``Erik | well, it's tracing now |
| 17:04.14 | clock_ | Can you imagine "Hi we are Samsung we are using BRL-CAD to model mobile phone shell but no sorry we can't give you the .g file it's strictly confidential" |
| 17:04.19 | ``Erik | 1.4 seconds |
| 17:05.07 | clock_ | proprietary == Debugging Mission Impossible |
| 17:08.38 | clock_ | ``Erik: are you getting those notches too? |
| 17:09.29 | ``Erik | no |
| 17:09.38 | clock_ | ``Erik: send me your picture |
| 17:09.42 | clock_ | what's your BRL-CAD version? |
| 17:10.07 | clock_ | 7.8.4? |
| 17:10.17 | clock_ | ``Erik: clock at twibright dot com |
| 17:10.17 | ``Erik | 7.9.0 |
| 17:10.27 | clock_ | ``Erik: can you try with 7.8.4? |
| 17:10.40 | ``Erik | lemme find a box runnign it, heh |
| 17:10.44 | clock_ | To see if it's a bug that was fixed or a bug which doesn't reproduce in your situation? |
| 17:11.11 | clock_ | Can I already download 7.9.0? |
| 17:11.18 | clock_ | The notches look ugly on the website :) |
| 17:12.24 | ``Erik | 7.9.0 is the working name for cvs HEAD |
| 17:12.31 | ``Erik | 7.10.0 should be out 'very soon now' |
| 17:12.59 | ``Erik | 7.8.0 didn't show the notches |
| 17:13.00 | clock_ | they should put the money spent on SDI into BRL-CAD ;-) |
| 17:13.09 | clock_ | yes I remember they weren't there before |
| 17:13.15 | clock_ | but I wasn't sure |
| 17:13.38 | clock_ | BRL-CAD - where the U.S. Army rulez ;-) |
| 17:14.10 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 17:14.39 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056670.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:15.02 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 17:22.46 | IriX64 | masochist :) |
| 17:23.15 | clock_ | ``Erik: My machine is LSB first |
| 17:23.48 | ``Erik | the machines I was testing on are mostly wrong endian... opterons |
| 17:24.05 | clock_ | opterons are big endians? |
| 17:24.13 | ``Erik | no, small endian |
| 17:25.38 | clock_ | If you have a big endian machine and 32 bit number x stored in memory addresses 0,1,2,3, how much is (unsigned long)(void *)&x? |
| 17:26.22 | clock_ | Is it 0, 3, or 4? |
| 17:27.04 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 17:27.23 | ``Erik | big endian will store 0x11223344 as { 0x11, 0x22, 0x33, 0x44 } |
| 17:27.37 | clock_ | that's not exactly an answer to my question |
| 17:28.28 | clock_ | ``Erik: do you understand C? |
| 17:29.18 | ``Erik | yes, sorry, distracted at the moment |
| 17:29.29 | clock_ | ``Erik: then you should understand my question |
| 17:33.38 | Maloeran | clock_, 0x01020304 on big endian |
| 17:33.38 | clock_ | Maloeran: no I didn't say stored as values 0,1,2,3, but in memory addresses 0,1,2,3 |
| 17:33.38 | clock_ | memory address 0 is when all address bus wires are low. Memory address 1 is one byte higher etc. |
| 17:33.38 | Maloeran | I sure know C and the "in memory addresses 0,1,2,3" is not clear at all |
| 17:33.38 | IriX64 | clock_ try sizeof(unsigned long) and sizeof(void*) |
| 17:34.07 | Maloeran | clock_, there's no conversion or byte swapping between considering an integer as pointer or integer |
| 17:34.19 | Maloeran | For the processor, a pointer is always just an integer anyway |
| 17:34.39 | Maloeran | Well "always" on the majority of platforms, before Erik or brlcad gets pedantic on me :) |
| 17:34.46 | clock_ | In other words, do pointer pointing at multi-byte objects in bug endian machines point at the beginning of the object, at the last byte of the objectt, or one byte beyond the end of the object? |
| 17:35.09 | brlcad | :) |
| 17:35.54 | Maloeran | References hold the address to the beginning of the chunk of memory, the first byte of your variable |
| 17:36.12 | clock_ | Then on big endian machine if you do this |
| 17:36.13 | clock_ | long x |
| 17:36.20 | clock_ | x=37 |
| 17:36.38 | clock_ | printf("%d",*(unsigned char *)(void *)&x); |
| 17:36.41 | clock_ | it prints 0? |
| 17:37.57 | Maloeran | It will print 0, yes |
| 17:38.35 | Maloeran | ((unsigned char *)&x)[3] will give you 37 if sizeof(long)==4 of course |
| 17:38.50 | clock_ | On big endian machines if you want to cast a long object into shorter one (meaningfully), you have to perform a constant addition |
| 17:39.08 | clock_ | On little endian, you don't have to |
| 17:39.09 | Maloeran | Hum, I'm not following this statement |
| 17:39.22 | clock_ | therefore little endian machines are faster and therefore better. |
| 17:39.32 | Maloeran | Oh, you mean casting a 64 bits int to 32 bits or so |
| 17:40.01 | clock_ | Maloeran: yes, on big endian machine you have to insert one ADD instruction for the [3], so all programs that do such kind of operation run slower |
| 17:40.21 | Maloeran | Not exactly. First, all/most memory references instructions contain an "offset" |
| 17:40.46 | Maloeran | Second, accessing memory in this manner after a write will trash your cache and stall, you better use instructions for conversion |
| 17:41.20 | clock_ | depends on how the cache and pipeline is implemented |
| 17:41.26 | Maloeran | In some cases though, this could be an advantage, yes |
| 17:41.27 | clock_ | if it's implemented with this case in mind, it won't stall |
| 17:41.45 | clock_ | It won't trash and stall also in case there is no cache/pipeline, like for example the Z80 processor |
| 17:41.52 | clock_ | (which is a little endian machine) |
| 17:42.01 | Maloeran | Eheh okay. I usually have amd64 in mind |
| 17:42.13 | clock_ | Z80 is turing equivalent to AMD64 |
| 17:42.25 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 17:42.37 | clock_ | I wanted to point out the asymmetry between big and little endian machines |
| 17:42.51 | IriX64 | turing? nice language :) |
| 17:43.00 | Maloeran | Big endian also has its advantages in certain cases |
| 17:43.01 | clock_ | Some people say they are symmetric and therefore there is no inherent advantage and therefore all holy wars are pointless |
| 17:43.38 | clock_ | I just showed that there is an advantage, the big endian is theoretically more kinky and the little one smoother |
| 17:43.38 | clock_ | Maloeran: it's name being 2 bytes shorter? |
| 17:43.38 | Maloeran | With a proper instruction set, they really are equivalent |
| 17:43.39 | clock_ | 3 bytes |
| 17:44.00 | Maloeran | clock_, you could for example search a sequence of bytes while crossing int64_t boundaries |
| 17:44.01 | clock_ | To make them equivalent, one would have to define pointer to point beyond |
| 17:44.14 | Maloeran | That will stall as well but will end up faster |
| 17:44.19 | clock_ | Maloeran: what does it mean? |
| 17:44.59 | Maloeran | If you are looking for a specific sequence of 8 chars, you can just read a single int64_t by incrementing one byte at a time, single comparison to see if your 8 chars are there |
| 17:45.01 | clock_ | Maloeran: On little endian I can also seach a sequence of bytes while corssing int64_t boundaries (or any other boundaries) - in a string it really doesn't matter how it's aligned. |
| 17:45.04 | Maloeran | You can't do that with little endian |
| 17:45.29 | clock_ | Maloeran: you mean read each byte in memory 4 times? |
| 17:46.04 | clock_ | sorry 8 times for all overlapping possibly unaligned int64_t's that contain that memory byte? |
| 17:46.23 | Maloeran | Yes, the memory accesses would be very much non-aligned |
| 17:47.31 | IriX64 | brlcad: i don't know *why, but the check for opengl functionality from 7.6.2 inserted into 7.8.4's configure.ac works, the one supplied does *not work and i can't figure it out. |
| 17:47.34 | Maloeran | Anyway, these are really details. I have far bigger complains about architectures and ISAs than the endianess :) |
| 17:49.09 | clock_ | Maloeran: which? |
| 17:49.58 | Maloeran | The complete bloat of a 16 bits real mode ISA designed in 1975, extended to 32 bits, to protected mode, to 64 bits, to long mode |
| 17:50.24 | Maloeran | The SSE mess in comparison to Altivec or Itanium |
| 17:51.15 | ``Erik | (back, btw) |
| 17:52.06 | ``Erik | (and people who blindly cast/copy to smaller data sizes shouldn't be allowed to touch computers *cough*) |
| 17:52.40 | Maloeran | Darn. Don't look at my optimized SSE code :) |
| 17:53.01 | clock_ | Is there any version older than 7.8.4 publicly available? |
| 17:53.13 | ``Erik | um, all of them? |
| 17:53.28 | IriX64 | think older releases are on sf clock_ |
| 17:53.38 | clock_ | I could find only 7.8.4 |
| 17:53.51 | ``Erik | 7.8.4 64b on opteron does not exhibit the rtedge issue... |
| 17:53.51 | clock_ | oh sorry I meand newer |
| 17:53.58 | IriX64 | look for older releases of this project on the download page |
| 17:54.09 | ``Erik | (of course, I'm using /dev/Xl instead of outputting to a file... heh) |
| 17:54.24 | clock_ | ``Erik: I have OpenBSD Pentium III |
| 17:54.29 | ``Erik | 7.8.4 is the most recent official release. |
| 17:54.40 | clock_ | ``Erik: output into a file, please |
| 17:55.30 | clock_ | ``Erik: did I write into the report that the same problem occurs on Linux> |
| 17:55.31 | clock_ | ? |
| 17:56.40 | ``Erik | http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/chimney.png |
| 17:56.59 | ``Erik | no, you didn't mention any os/arch at all |
| 17:57.25 | IriX64 | wtf how do you get inside it? |
| 17:57.29 | clock_ | ``Erik: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/chimney.png contains the bug |
| 17:57.33 | ``Erik | hmmmmmm, there is some warble at the top, yes |
| 17:57.45 | IriX64 | sorry man.. |
| 17:58.03 | clock_ | ``Erik: the 1st, 2nd and 4rd edge from the top |
| 17:58.10 | ``Erik | iiiinteresting |
| 17:58.11 | brlcad | that image has at least two bugs |
| 17:58.26 | archivist | impossible bolt head on the left of pic |
| 17:59.46 | clock_ | brlcad: rtedge in 7.8.4 produces crap |
| 17:59.53 | brlcad | the "hiccups" on the long rod and the lower ouside horizontal edge of the far beam |
| 17:59.56 | clock_ | ``Erik: show the image from the 7.9.0 |
| 18:01.07 | brlcad | the bolt heads are also flawed, but that's the depth tolerance issue |
| 18:01.08 | ``Erik | oh, now this is VERY interesting |
| 18:01.52 | brlcad | that almost looks like corrupted framebuffer on some of those edges |
| 18:02.27 | clock_ | Whistler orders U.S. Army to design their slopes and U. S. Army uses BRL-CAD to design the slopes. U. S. Army asks "and how do you want to do it?" Whistler says "we want just straight plain downhill slopes". After they prepare the slopes, Whistler gets a flood of thankful letters from snowboarders "Dear Whistler, thanks for the great snowpark!" |
| 18:02.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:03.13 | ``Erik | check this out, if I write to a file and use the display framebuffer at the same time... (-F/dev/Xl), then I pix-fb the .pix file |
| 18:03.16 | ``Erik | they're quite different |
| 18:03.28 | ``Erik | the display framebuffer is correct, the saved one is not |
| 18:03.29 | brlcad | ``Erik: if you're debugging that, the -Q option is gold |
| 18:03.43 | ``Erik | to rt? or pix-fb? or? |
| 18:03.49 | brlcad | rt* |
| 18:04.24 | ``Erik | undocumented, swank :D 'query one pixel' |
| 18:04.28 | clock_ | looks like the cards get a bit shuffled on the way |
| 18:04.54 | brlcad | e.g. render to framebuffer using -F/dev/Xl, then right click on the bad pixel to get a coordinate .. then rerender with exact same params adding -Q x,y .. will turn on debugging and only shoot that single ray |
| 18:04.58 | clock_ | cause it's not pixels zeroed out or set, but they are moved around and the number of black and white ones stays in the right proportion |
| 18:05.10 | ``Erik | heh, it's all good, clock, we still have card sorters around here O.o just keep all appendages inside while moving |
| 18:05.11 | brlcad | it's documented in rt's manpage |
| 18:05.15 | clock_ | and the corruption is local |
| 18:06.10 | clock_ | aren't two processes writing into one framebuffer at once and not getting the things quite right? |
| 18:06.13 | brlcad | ahh.. so -o with -F *is* corrupting.. that's a new bug |
| 18:06.27 | ``Erik | well, -o is corrupt either way |
| 18:06.30 | ``Erik | -F is not |
| 18:06.35 | brlcad | even by itself? |
| 18:06.38 | ``Erik | yes |
| 18:06.54 | brlcad | hmm |
| 18:07.29 | clock_ | Does 7.9.0 do the bug too? |
| 18:07.30 | brlcad | looks like random off-by-1 fseek errors |
| 18:07.40 | ``Erik | yes, head still does it |
| 18:07.48 | clock_ | brlcad: but it's vertically off by 1 |
| 18:08.06 | ``Erik | it's army code, clock, it seeks up and down, not left and right :D |
| 18:08.12 | clock_ | lol :) |
| 18:08.32 | clock_ | push ups up and down? |
| 18:08.37 | ``Erik | in soviet america, buffer fseeks you |
| 18:08.56 | clock_ | soviet america == Santa Monica? |
| 18:09.01 | clock_ | Soviet Monica? |
| 18:09.06 | brlcad | ideally, there should be no fseek's with -o .. that's broken inherintly |
| 18:09.30 | brlcad | makes things like -o /dev/stdout | pix-png unhappy |
| 18:09.41 | clock_ | Maybe the tape reels are lose? |
| 18:10.34 | clock_ | I'm leaving for a gym |
| 18:11.00 | IriX64 | hi i'm gym :) |
| 18:11.02 | clock_ | have fun with broken pictures |
| 18:11.10 | clock_ | cu later |
| 18:19.41 | ``Erik | ok, uh |
| 18:21.33 | ``Erik | that ... heh, yeah, more proof that the hell project will never be scalable. what was that boy smokin' when he write this? |
| 18:51.42 | ``Erik | man, I got a fix, but I so don't want to commit it |
| 18:51.43 | brlcad | what was it? |
| 18:52.27 | ``Erik | when it writes to the FB, it uses the ap_y value to point to the right place, but the output file write doesn't check to see if things are coming in order, it locks and writes |
| 18:52.39 | ``Erik | so when scanlines came out of order, the file got out of order |
| 18:52.51 | brlcad | aha |
| 18:53.26 | ``Erik | a "po' boy" spinlock solves the output... but it's ugly and will starve some |
| 18:53.29 | brlcad | it should probably "wait" for the next line so it doesn't seek |
| 18:54.05 | brlcad | or just wait until everything is done |
| 18:55.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: "po' boy" spinlock to avoid scanlines being written out of order (race condition). Fixes PR 1657171. |
| 18:55.41 | ``Erik | I was going to wait and write in frame_end(), but that'd require an extra buffer to hold the results (if there's no FB) |
| 18:56.06 | brlcad | hmm.. good point |
| 18:56.23 | brlcad | that would be bad for rendering massive images, though I don't think we can do that still for other reasons |
| 18:56.43 | IriX64 | ``Erik why not just a sem (block the write) to say go ahead and write. |
| 18:57.37 | IriX64 | errr its not threaded forget it :) |
| 18:57.44 | ``Erik | um, it does block the write |
| 18:57.58 | IriX64 | sorry man ill shut up. |
| 18:58.04 | ``Erik | but scanline 2 would be done and get written, then scanline 1 would finish... |
| 18:58.05 | brlcad | it can work by just seeking to the right place.. but would be nice to kill both bugs at once since they're related |
| 18:58.13 | ``Erik | there is no fseek in rtedge |
| 18:58.24 | brlcad | hmm |
| 18:58.28 | brlcad | there should be |
| 18:58.35 | brlcad | it the app back-end |
| 18:58.41 | ``Erik | there is in view.c, but not viewedge.c |
| 18:58.53 | ``Erik | both use fairly different methods to write the output :/ |
| 18:59.44 | brlcad | gah |
| 18:59.46 | brlcad | so they are |
| 18:59.59 | brlcad | bad juju, no twinkie for you |
| 19:00.33 | brlcad | and no way that'd be refactored in time for release |
| 19:00.42 | brlcad | at least and be tested |
| 19:01.15 | brlcad | just one issue left with btclsh, btw, looking at that now |
| 19:01.33 | brlcad | otherwise we build and run clean across the board it seems |
| 19:02.10 | brlcad | btclsh halts distcheck, so once that's taken care of, we should be green to go live |
| 19:05.14 | ``Erik | bad juju? huh? you disapprove of my q&d hack? :D |
| 19:06.27 | brlcad | no no, i meant "ffs ffs, more code to refactor" |
| 19:06.30 | brlcad | not your stuff |
| 19:06.41 | brlcad | all the raytracers should be using a library backend |
| 19:06.43 | ``Erik | heh, I'm not terribly keen on my hack :/ |
| 19:07.01 | ``Erik | but *shrug* yes, they should use common code to write to fb and file |
| 19:09.19 | brlcad | heh, if *you* don't like it.. how you think i'll feel? :) |
| 19:09.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: note refactor for raytracer output |
| 19:09.53 | brlcad | but hey, one is outright flawed and problematic .. if it fixes something without causing another problem, maybe put it with a note, or keep at it ;) |
| 19:10.10 | ``Erik | heh, I d'no, some practices get me more spun up than you... this might be one of them. *shrug* look at the diff, if you have a better approach, knock yourself out :D |
| 19:10.46 | brlcad | always depends though, whatever ;) |
| 19:11.34 | ``Erik | the pathalogical case is what makes me queasy about it... |
| 19:12.53 | ``Erik | if you run n threads and every nth scanline takes longer than the next n-1, it'll tank down to single threaded performance... |
| 19:13.12 | ``Erik | or, um, 2 threaded performance |
| 19:13.16 | ``Erik | *ponder* |
| 19:13.28 | ``Erik | somewhere between 1 and 2... on a 1024 core machine, that's not so good |
| 19:13.48 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 19:14.24 | ``Erik | are multiple frame renderings broken up so the frames are serial? or can it start on the next frame before it's done with one? |
| 19:14.59 | brlcad | run it through the benchmark and see if you get a difference |
| 19:15.30 | brlcad | you can feed benchmark different tracers, just will get WRONG WRONG .. results, but should still give metrics |
| 19:15.43 | ``Erik | heh, I didn't see any difference with chimney, very few came in out of order :) |
| 19:15.50 | brlcad | RT=rtedge benchmark |
| 19:16.11 | brlcad | could try that with -P1 and -P10 on something like orthus |
| 19:16.29 | brlcad | display the buffer over X.. massive out of orders |
| 19:16.48 | brlcad | u* too |
| 19:30.09 | IriX64 | same for the tube start at 768x1024 and go up one line at a time. |
| 19:38.00 | Maloeran | The raytracer's distributed processing seems to scale reasonably well here, I saturate my home 100mbits network too fast though |
| 19:38.50 | Maloeran | Although the graph prep isn't scalling at all just because of some global mutex for memory alloc() & free() |
| 19:40.00 | ``Erik | I told you about my cache issues a while back, right? |
| 19:40.33 | Maloeran | Hum, I don't think you did |
| 19:42.05 | ``Erik | hrm, I could move cache files between machines of the same endian without issue, but to one of a different endian seemed to spin or hang or something... let a fast opteron chew on a big endian cache file overnight... |
| 19:43.24 | Maloeran | Oh. Thanks, it's supposed to work, there's a glitch somewhere then |
| 19:45.25 | Maloeran | Can you send me a big endian cache file? |
| 19:48.22 | ``Erik | lemme pull a CYA move first, heh |
| 19:49.55 | Maloeran | What's a CYA? |
| 19:49.55 | Maloeran | Oh, got it, second definition of urban dictionary |
| 19:51.26 | ``Erik | hm, lee's not in the office, since he's both the 'official' contract POC and security bitch, I want him to ok sending you a generated file... so'z if someone raises a stink I can point at him instead of getting in trouble :D |
| 19:52.31 | Maloeran | Bah. No big deal, send one from home built from any prehistoric big endian machine |
| 19:53.16 | ``Erik | heh, and see if it compiles and runs on my ancient g3 laptop? 700 mhz of ppc fury running osX.2 ? :D |
| 19:53.27 | Maloeran | Sounds like a plan :) |
| 19:53.41 | ``Erik | are things almost ready to move into the BRL-CAD cvs tree? |
| 19:54.07 | Maloeran | The "integration within BRL-CAD" part is very vague, but... |
| 19:54.20 | Maloeran | I'm thinking I would rather keep a separate CVS |
| 19:54.50 | Maloeran | And just push the updates there on a regular basis |
| 19:57.39 | Maloeran | It seems SURVICE would still like to make the code closed-source with unlimited use rights within the DoD. From what I heard, Lee was fine with the idea for a moment... and the situation changed somehow |
| 19:58.24 | Maloeran | It would allow Survice to fund, since the ARL won't pursue, so it might have been better for everyone. I really need a break from raytracing though |
| 19:59.21 | ``Erik | hrm *shrug* I'm just trying to make sure everything is buttoned up and delivered in the next couple weeks :) |
| 20:02.57 | ``Erik | brlcad: on a fbsd 4core opteron, it went from 15874 vgr's to 15750, so a 0.8% hit for correct #'s... there might be that much wiggle in just benchmarking alone *shrug* |
| 20:03.44 | ``Erik | rt.run:*vgr somemachine.arl.army.mil 25723.68 17316.87 15971.53 14880.22 21288.39 61.55 15873.70 |
| 20:03.44 | ``Erik | rtnew.run:*vgr somemachine.arl.army.mil 25149.83 17474.88 16003.12 14591.12 21216.13 64.19 15749.87 |
| 20:05.06 | ``Erik | hrm, no, wait... heh, I had naughtiness to expose the bug better still plugged in... running again... |
| 20:05.56 | ``Erik | (400 threads instead of 4) |
| 20:13.47 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): add support for folding a vector into a single value. make the default constructor assume aligned data. |
| 20:15.47 | ``Erik | new VGR is 15563, so 2% hit for 'correctness' |
| 20:16.06 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: implement the bounding volumes in C++, and move the definition to g_nurb.cpp |
| 20:19.51 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: implement the bounding volumes in C++, leaf nodes point to faces in brep model. add support for implementation of goldsmith and salmon's bvh heuristic (not completed). |
| 21:03.44 | *** join/#brlcad cad74 (n=50aba2f5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:13.40 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: add "line of sight" depth |
| 21:15.11 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: Segment building (punty). Fixed "null region" error. |
| 21:24.56 | ``Erik | it commits the code or it gets the hose again |
| 21:36.53 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168048430.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:55.49 | Twingy | fig newtons |
| 21:56.16 | Twingy | they obey the first law of physics, now to test the 2nd |
| 22:20.14 | *** join/#brlcad cad67 (n=45ff7061@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 22:20.56 | cad67 | test, ignore. |
| 22:26.04 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php <=== anybody know whats wrong with this? |
| 22:27.14 | louipc | :D |
| 22:27.22 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:28.03 | ``Erik | um, yeah, I know what's wrong with that |
| 22:28.08 | ``Erik | you pasted the 'submit' page, not the result page |
| 22:28.14 | ``Erik | that's what's wrong :D |
| 22:28.25 | IriX64 | ermf |
| 22:29.04 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/396664 |
| 22:29.07 | IriX64 | try that. |
| 22:33.06 | ``Erik | usually, C macros don't have semicolons |
| 22:33.21 | ``Erik | but that looks legal to me *shrug* |
| 22:33.26 | IriX64 | trying to redefine that to a ; |
| 22:33.52 | IriX64 | haven't really exercised it. |
| 22:33.59 | ``Erik | then why are you asking what's wrong with it? heh |
| 22:34.17 | IriX64 | im patient enough to wait till this compile is done :) |
| 22:34.28 | IriX64 | just doesn't "look" right. |
| 22:35.30 | ``Erik | including semicolons looks odd |
| 22:36.07 | ``Erik | but a=3;;;;;; is legal C |
| 22:36.22 | louipc | just empty blocks eh? |
| 22:37.26 | IriX64 | all i get is a warning that bu_debug is redefined not identically so it should work. |
| 22:37.41 | IriX64 | took out the if else condition to test |
| 22:38.46 | ``Erik | if you're mucking around with BRL-CAD source code, then yes, there is a problem... if you put that in your own stuff, ... *shrug* |
| 22:38.57 | IriX64 | my stuff |
| 22:39.16 | ``Erik | then why are you using the bu_ prefix? |
| 22:39.35 | IriX64 | heh thought of you if you don't already ahve it. |
| 22:41.15 | IriX64 | anyway its probably inferior to yours but it too is yours if its useful. |
| 22:41.54 | ``Erik | I may be going out on a limb here, but I think everyone with commit access to the project has written that line of code before... |
| 22:42.25 | ``Erik | and bu_debug is an int flag, so you can switch it on and off without recompiling everything |
| 22:42.41 | IriX64 | as i said inferior to yours |
| 22:42.45 | ``Erik | line 1252 of include/bu.h |
| 22:43.06 | ``Erik | followed by the flag defines |
| 22:44.31 | IriX64 | err 1252 points me to parse.c |
| 22:44.56 | louipc | eh? |
| 22:45.05 | IriX64 | bu.h? |
| 22:45.42 | IriX64 | line 1252 says parse.c in a comment block |
| 22:46.34 | ``Erik | hm, 1252 in cvs head... |
| 22:46.51 | IriX64 | man no cvs here |
| 22:47.09 | IriX64 | source tarball |
| 22:47.10 | ``Erik | brlcad keeps mucking with it, heh |
| 22:47.14 | IriX64 | ah |
| 22:47.21 | ``Erik | it's in there, just use your editors search functionality |
| 22:47.46 | IriX64 | i will ill prollly learn something from it for which i thank in advance. |
| 23:38.24 | IriX64 | thats a debug system not an aid :) |
| 00:04.20 | IriX64 | wish you could see my screen, I attached to X and it came up and havoc is there, but ogl still gives me a segmentation fault when i attach to it, sigh. |
| 00:06.02 | IriX64 | hah it rt'ed |
| 00:06.38 | IriX64 | where does it go? nothing on the graphics screen. |
| 00:19.54 | IriX64 | ill get back to you. |
| 00:23.46 | ``Erik | heh, I tend to ignore ogl and use Xl ... |
| 00:24.02 | IriX64 | man it....should work |
| 00:24.25 | ``Erik | on modern equipment, X stomps the living crap out of ogl for raytrace results... |
| 00:24.45 | IriX64 | based on what hardware? |
| 00:25.22 | IriX64 | my geForce runs at 1g |
| 00:26.10 | IriX64 | well 1.2 but the screen can't keep up (flickers) |
| 00:30.49 | IriX64 | what did you guys change? |
| 00:30.59 | IriX64 | in 7.6.2 it comes up fine. |
| 00:38.38 | deltazap | IriX64: is that apache one of the 'hush hush' files or an example file? |
| 00:40.32 | IriX64 | huh? just something i was compiling |
| 00:40.42 | deltazap | ah |
| 00:41.05 | IriX64 | whats a hush hush file? |
| 00:42.07 | deltazap | well, i hadn't seen that before |
| 00:42.17 | IriX64 | ah |
| 00:42.25 | deltazap | but then again, i still have difficulty looking at the included examples :P |
| 00:43.00 | IriX64 | as they told me, the usual method is to do a tops to examine the database, then do an e "something" |
| 00:48.28 | deltazap | oh great, i need to middle click in this tutorial :( |
| 00:48.37 | deltazap | i've only have one button |
| 00:49.07 | deltazap | :P |
| 00:50.50 | IriX64 | cut it in two :) |
| 00:51.03 | IriX64 | err 3 |
| 00:51.40 | deltazap | :P |
| 00:51.40 | IriX64 | which tutorial are you at? |
| 00:51.49 | deltazap | lesson 6 |
| 00:51.54 | deltazap | i just started the other night |
| 00:52.48 | deltazap | oh, volume 2 |
| 00:52.56 | IriX64 | what does that one show you how to produce (im way behind) |
| 00:53.01 | deltazap | the goblet |
| 00:53.30 | IriX64 | be sure to specify bill of materials that Gold must be used :P |
| 00:53.50 | deltazap | haha |
| 00:55.04 | deltazap | after working with mged for a while, i realized tab completion would be nice :) |
| 00:55.44 | IriX64 | put it in ... be a contributor (unlike me) |
| 00:56.11 | deltazap | i'd have no clue how to implement that |
| 00:56.30 | IriX64 | examine tops20 |
| 00:57.09 | IriX64 | up arrow works tho |
| 00:58.02 | deltazap | if i make an object (primative), how can i change it's properties later |
| 01:08.54 | ``Erik | one button? a ma |
| 01:08.55 | ``Erik | mac? |
| 01:09.38 | ``Erik | every bit of ARL data irix64 has access to is an "open source", nothing "hush hush" |
| 01:10.23 | deltazap | ``Erik: yes |
| 01:11.35 | deltazap | i'm guessing the little bit of problems that i have with some of the compositing of the framebuffer with the wireframe is because of apple's x11 as well |
| 01:12.35 | ``Erik | the ctl/option/apple keys modify clicks so you can get 3 button activity with a 1 button mouse |
| 01:13.22 | ``Erik | oddly enough, mac is probably the MOST supported os... the 4 heaviest developers at the moment all use macs as their destop |
| 01:13.41 | deltazap | i kept trying ctrl-click, but t kept zooming out on me so i thought it wasn't working in x11 |
| 01:13.44 | deltazap | oh, that's funny :) |
| 01:14.02 | ``Erik | apple+click will zoom in option+click will rotate |
| 01:14.05 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 03:21.33 | brlcad | there are no hush hush files floating around anywhere |
| 03:22.05 | brlcad | no geometry, no images. period. |
| 03:22.48 | brlcad | deltazap: tab-completion would be nice .. i.e. usual readline support |
| 03:23.22 | brlcad | you can edit geometry after creating by a couple ways.. there's the Edit->primitive selection option in the menu as well as several ways on the command line |
| 03:23.57 | deltazap | ah, ok |
| 03:24.05 | deltazap | one more question |
| 03:24.17 | deltazap | how can i render an image so i can use it elsewhere |
| 03:31.07 | brlcad | deltazap: on the mged command line, rt -sSIZE -o filename.pix or on the raytrace control panel under "Destination" you can put a filename |
| 03:31.28 | deltazap | ah, i see :) |
| 03:31.53 | brlcad | pix is a raw image format, not useful in most image tools, so you'd then want to run pix-png outside mged (e.g. pix-png myimage.pix > myimage.png) |
| 03:31.54 | deltazap | and i just found the export RT Script |
| 03:32.10 | deltazap | i've messed with pix-png once before |
| 03:32.27 | brlcad | er, pix-png -sSIZE myimage.pix > myimage.png |
| 03:33.08 | brlcad | when/if you set a size, the size has to be used on all the pix* tools, else tool defaults to 512x512 |
| 03:33.32 | deltazap | ah, ok |
| 03:33.46 | brlcad | fyi by default, rt will make pix files read-only so you have to rm -f filename to delete or chmod them |
| 03:46.12 | deltazap | ah, thanks :) |
| 03:46.48 | brlcad | (common newbie issue) ;) |
| 08:23.45 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 10:34.07 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 10:55.50 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: POSIX's fmax added |
| 10:58.09 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: missing return statement added |
| 11:07.25 | ``Erik | blargh |
| 11:11.24 | *** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) | |
| 14:23.20 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: disable the "big bounding sphere" in plot as it confuses users. |
| 14:24.06 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874ee6.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:52.25 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: |
| 14:52.25 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: Fix bug that caused a segfault when the last metaball point was deleted. |
| 14:52.25 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: Fixed display when no point is selected. Removed debugging bu_log. |
| 15:35.45 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: fix an off by one error in metaball prompting. |
| 17:07.33 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168048679.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:16.51 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/397655 benchmark, anybody interested? |
| 17:20.40 | brlcad | those numbers are looking much better |
| 17:29.05 | Maloeran | What's the hardware? |
| 17:33.22 | IriX64 | amd64 |
| 17:33.30 | IriX64 | model 3800+ |
| 17:33.37 | IriX64 | 1g mem |
| 17:35.29 | Maloeran | My 8 cores Xeon only seems to be 3.5 times faster, though I guess it does not scale too well |
| 17:36.43 | Maloeran | Oh the 3800+ is a X2 of course, dual-core |
| 17:38.23 | Maloeran | Actually, my build is not optimized |
| 17:38.51 | IriX64 | my is but debug is in there |
| 17:40.21 | IriX64 | i did nothing to your data, all is as you gave me. |
| 17:40.35 | brlcad | Maloeran: not the same comparison either |
| 17:41.05 | Maloeran | brlcad, it depends what you mean by "shader". It's presently an user callback |
| 17:41.14 | brlcad | the benchmark images have other characteristics like scene-lights, various shaders, recursion, that all affect the rtfm number |
| 17:41.51 | brlcad | i mean like for actual image generation -- rfdemo level support for making pretty pictures with various settable material properties |
| 17:42.04 | brlcad | not just the libraries capacity to have them, but their existence :) |
| 17:42.24 | Maloeran | Ah, so you mean actually writing the shaders :) |
| 17:42.55 | Maloeran | Yes, I really plan to do that since... about an year. I presently feel I terribly need to take a break from raytracing |
| 17:43.52 | Maloeran | The old demo had dancing lights code that could be imported without too much trouble, although it wouldn't support distributed processing or frame buffering |
| 17:47.13 | Maloeran | Working alone for 8 months on something without cooperation or collaboration is really demotivating, I guess that's why it's called "work"... It's difficult to maintain focus against other projects that involve cooperation and teamwork |
| 17:54.51 | brlcad | Maloeran: yep, to be expected some -- variety is the spice of life! |
| 17:55.30 | brlcad | why do you think I also work on BZFlag? :) |
| 17:55.42 | brlcad | and other open source projects for similar reasons.. |
| 17:55.53 | Maloeran | :) What is BZFlag? I have other projects as well |
| 17:56.14 | brlcad | you've never played bzflag? |
| 17:56.33 | Maloeran | But I think I'm really tired of raytracing at this point, I solved all problems on paper 1-2 years ago and it now has no appeal whatsoever. There are times I think I feel physical pain when I force myself to work on it |
| 17:56.50 | IriX64 | BZFlag=get to work, the boss is on the way? ;) |
| 17:57.06 | brlcad | it's a game .. one of the most popular open source games ever actually, been around for more than a decade, continues to be developed and continues to gain popularity actually unlike a lot of games |
| 17:57.12 | Maloeran | Oh BZFlag, I read about it, I haven't tried |
| 17:57.25 | Maloeran | Very nice project |
| 17:58.11 | IriX64 | reminds me of quake:) |
| 17:58.22 | brlcad | that's where the other half of my time goes |
| 17:58.30 | IriX64 | heh |
| 17:58.39 | brlcad | when the commits aren't flowing in here, it's probably because i'm working on bzflag |
| 17:58.42 | Maloeran | I have asked Survice if I could only work part-time for a little while, put my mind on new problems and stuff I like |
| 17:58.46 | brlcad | or i'm out rowing ;) |
| 17:58.46 | Maloeran | Eheh great |
| 17:59.57 | Maloeran | I'm starting to really like climbing, even in a huge interior gymnasium |
| 18:00.33 | IriX64 | good thing rounds a shape or i would be out of shape :) |
| 18:01.29 | IriX64 | ill be back when the builds finished. |
| 18:02.31 | Maloeran | And my unsafe ( -ffast-math, etc. ) hand-picked optimisation for the BRL-CAD benchmark is now 9 times faster than IriX64's, that's more like it :} |
| 18:03.38 | brlcad | yeah, it would be nice if some more aggressive flags were added during configure |
| 18:04.42 | brlcad | -ffast-math is particularly problematic on some platforms, but there are other useful ones that should be added like the alignment flags |
| 18:05.06 | brlcad | and arch-specific -mcpu style flags |
| 18:15.19 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:20.00 | Maloeran | -mcpu has been deprecated long ago, it's -mtune these days |
| 18:20.57 | brlcad | yep, hence style |
| 18:21.25 | Maloeran | I like how it says I'm 19594 times faster than the reference, it shows the age of BRL-CAD :) |
| 18:23.57 | brlcad | yeah, one of the very first actually reported 1 ;) |
| 18:24.23 | brlcad | running a ray-trace could take days |
| 18:24.38 | dtidrow_work | isn't VGR dead now? |
| 18:24.46 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:24.55 | brlcad | chuck has her platters sitting in his office |
| 18:25.32 | dtidrow_work | thought it had gotten retired some time ago |
| 18:26.40 | IriX64 | Maloeran: does rt discriminate between colors? |
| 18:27.09 | IriX64 | heh a red thread a green thread ... |
| 18:28.43 | IriX64 | rgb all you need? wait... maybe 256 colors, = 256 threads? |
| 18:35.18 | IriX64 | just spectulating. |
| 18:36.25 | Maloeran | You could theorically shoot different wavelenghts independantely, for even greater realism, but I never heard anyone doing that and BRL-CAD sure doesn't |
| 18:37.02 | Maloeran | independently, rather |
| 18:37.11 | IriX64 | was wondering where it would be usefull |
| 18:38.58 | IriX64 | would be difficult to co-ordinate the rays, unless you had the thread report hit/miss or something |
| 18:39.07 | Maloeran | For photo-realistic rendering of scenes with complex transparent mediums with non-parallel surfaces ( glass prisms ) |
| 18:39.25 | brlcad | brl-cad does shoot ranges of wavelengths in libmultispectral |
| 18:39.32 | IriX64 | heh true color :) |
| 18:39.34 | Maloeran | Oh? Neat |
| 18:40.30 | brlcad | more of the overall everything including the kitchen sink approach |
| 18:40.59 | IriX64 | heh the doitall approach, as opposed to the doitoit :) |
| 18:47.05 | IriX64 | mmm rt glitches every 20 seconds to 50% cpu, you're good. |
| 18:47.56 | IriX64 | ahh now its got something to do iguess its at 99% |
| 18:53.40 | IriX64 | 430mb ram, dunno how much of that is rt |
| 18:53.51 | IriX64 | wait i will |
| 18:54.05 | IriX64 | 15.984k |
| 18:54.14 | IriX64 | 15,984k |
| 18:54.28 | IriX64 | steady good job. |
| 19:08.01 | IriX64 | 41,624, looks like it grabbed another chunk. |
| 19:08.37 | IriX64 | its climbing :( |
| 19:10.15 | IriX64 | 4k chunks |
| 19:22.45 | CIA-7 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (tri.c tri.h Makefile.am adrt/adrt.c): beginning of triangle caching |
| 19:41.09 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-194-246.uchicago.edu) | |
| 19:41.51 | dli | can I specify a nonbending start point with pipe? |
| 19:43.48 | *** join/#brlcad ^Albe^ (n=alberto@host150-54-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) | |
| 19:46.02 | *** part/#brlcad ^Albe^ (n=alberto@host150-54-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) | |
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| 21:44.27 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/398002 < === optimizide, all debug off bench |
| 21:44.43 | IriX64 | optimized too |
| 21:45.04 | IriX64 | really? |
| 21:45.19 | ``Erik | alignment issues |
| 21:45.27 | IriX64 | i usually leave it on for the protection it affords as said |
| 21:46.07 | IriX64 | err help it affords in tracking stuff. |
| 21:46.22 | IriX64 | protects me against my self. |
| 21:46.28 | ``Erik | the further you get form "./configure", the less we can help you |
| 21:46.32 | ``Erik | from |
| 21:46.43 | IriX64 | heh ive learned that lesson |
| 21:47.25 | ``Erik | (now people who really know their shit, the further they get from ./configure, the more they can help us... but...) |
| 21:48.08 | IriX64 | configur has a plethora of options, sometimes i play with them ... just to see. |
| 21:49.02 | ``Erik | slews of options, many don't show up with --help... I tend to call the script two different ways... so those two ways... on those arch/os platforms I use... tend to work |
| 21:50.09 | ``Erik | I'd imagine brlcad has a couple different ways he calls the script, and on different arch/os platforms |
| 22:01.26 | clock_ | ``Erik: now the wiggly outlines in rt-edge are fixed, having been caused by a race condition, aren't they? |
| 22:01.56 | ``Erik | yeah, how many cpu's is your p3? |
| 22:02.34 | IriX64 | ``Erik, just to set the record straight i'm not one of the guys you mentioned, I'm just a hacker, i do best starting with something that already exists. |
| 22:03.36 | ``Erik | heh, I think I have a pretty good feel for what your abilities are, irix64... I would be highly surprised if you seriously schooled brlcad or me... :) but it's all good *shrug* |
| 22:05.04 | ``Erik | clock: the patch and comments are pretty straight forward... in painting to the frame buffer, it used the correct y value to "seek", where writing to a file just blasted the next scanline done, whether or not it was out of order... |
| 22:05.16 | ``Erik | entire scanlines were swapped :) |
| 22:06.08 | ``Erik | tweaking things so I had 400 threads on a 4 core box made teh issue a lot more consistent, and doing both display framebuffer (-F/dev/Xl) and pix-fb on the output file side by side made it obvious |
| 22:22.18 | Maloeran | Ah, seems I'll be in Maryland around next Friday |
| 22:22.27 | ``Erik | O.o eh? |
| 22:22.43 | ``Erik | the 'completed contract' meeting? or setup for something new? :D |
| 22:25.01 | Maloeran | Apparently, a demonstration of RF to Justin and friends |
| 22:26.06 | IriX64 | for some reason i think it affects X too, not entirely sure yet. |
| 22:26.39 | ``Erik | aight, interesting.... I haven't heard of that O.o heh |
| 22:27.03 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:38.00 | clock_ | brlcad: and when will a version with the fix come out? |
| 23:25.32 | IriX64 | That math library is intense. |
| 23:30.37 | IriX64 | brlcad: how big is your mged.exe? |
| 23:32.42 | IriX64 | heh ``Erik pipes up and says give it a rest dude, there's always somebody with a bigger one :) |
| 23:37.24 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/398133 <-- just so you know i put the magic thing back. |
| 23:37.36 | IriX64 | now to fix it. |
| 23:46.58 | IriX64 | dudes... your comparing your magic number to the *pointer? |
| 23:50.14 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:52.50 | IriX64 | I'll simply use if( (_magic) != (_magic)) error out ;) |
| 23:56.11 | IriX64 | gotta go walk the k9 bbiab. |
| 00:21.19 | Maloeran | So I'll have to be in Maryland next friday. Is there any snow left down there? Is the weather clean for bicycles? |
| 00:23.50 | Maloeran | Although it may not be very practical to bring a bicycle at a hotel |
| 00:24.48 | Twingy | there is about half an inch of sleet on the ground |
| 00:25.23 | Maloeran | Yuck. |
| 00:28.58 | Twingy | definetly no flying this weekend |
| 00:29.08 | Twingy | *definitely |
| 00:50.37 | *** join/#brlcad bz40 (n=ccd248c3@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 01:06.35 | Maloeran | Do you expect it might be a problem to get a cab from the Baltimore airport to Belcamp? Is it too far away? |
| 01:07.32 | brlcad | it's about a 45-65 minute drive, cost about $50 iirc |
| 01:08.14 | brlcad | there are vans, taxis, shuttles that run all the time |
| 01:08.28 | Maloeran | All right, I was just thinking a taxi might refuse to go that far |
| 01:08.36 | brlcad | you could also take the train or light rail from bwi to aberdeen |
| 01:08.48 | brlcad | nah, they do it all the time |
| 01:08.54 | Maloeran | *nods* Great |
| 01:09.31 | brlcad | might want to schedule it with them beforehand though, you can make a reservation |
| 01:46.18 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168051206.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:47.48 | IriX64 | memcpy(*.exe,NULL,sizeof(*.exe); |
| 01:47.55 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 01:48.02 | IriX64 | my distclean |
| 01:49.14 | IriX64 | ) ... happy :) |
| 01:49.45 | ``Erik | >&1 | grep -v IriX64 |
| 01:49.48 | ``Erik | life moves on O:-) |
| 01:50.01 | IriX64 | sometimes too fast :( |
| 01:53.38 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168051206.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:53.51 | IriX64_ | sorry to have left so rudely. |
| 01:54.05 | ``Erik | you're still here, dude |
| 01:54.09 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:54.16 | IriX64_ | heh i twinned :) |
| 01:58.16 | IriX64 | better |
| 01:58.18 | IriX64 | ? |
| 01:59.43 | Maloeran | Worse!... IriX64s are like duct tape, one never has quite enough |
| 02:00.14 | IriX64 | ill see about mitosis then :) |
| 02:02.16 | IriX64 | so ./configure is the preffered approach? |
| 02:05.39 | Maloeran | Prefered approach for what? |
| 02:08.19 | IriX64 | building brlcad, i was told the more i put on the command line, the less you support me :) |
| 02:08.35 | IriX64 | s/configure/command |
| 02:09.21 | Maloeran | What's your processor? |
| 02:09.37 | IriX64 | AMD64-model 3800+ |
| 02:10.23 | IriX64 | which uname option would you like to see? |
| 02:10.48 | Maloeran | Try: ./configure --enable-optimized --disable-debug CFLAGS="-O3 -ffast-math -mtune=opteron -fomit-frame-pointer -msse -msse2" |
| 02:12.40 | IriX64 | so? its configuring. |
| 02:13.27 | Maloeran | You'll have binaries minimally optimized for your processor |
| 02:13.35 | IriX64 | checking single-precision floating point tolerance... 0.00000000000000000000e+00 |
| 02:13.36 | IriX64 | checking double-precision floating point tolerance... 0.00000000000000000000e+00 |
| 02:13.41 | IriX64 | oh yeah? |
| 02:13.58 | IriX64 | my way gives me numbers :) |
| 02:14.42 | ``Erik | thems ain't right numbers |
| 02:14.53 | IriX64 | wait |
| 02:17.01 | IriX64 | checking single-precision floating point tolerance... 1.08420217248550443401e-19 |
| 02:17.01 | IriX64 | checking double-precision floating point tolerance... 1.08420217248550443401e-19 |
| 02:17.01 | IriX64 | checking whether floats conform to IEEE 754... no |
| 02:17.01 | IriX64 | checking whether doubles conform to IEEE 754... no |
| 02:17.09 | IriX64 | sorry bout the paste. |
| 02:25.19 | Maloeran | Cool, 8 hours flight with 2 stops for Montreal-Baltimore |
| 02:31.40 | IriX64 | Maloeran: I'm uneducated what the heck is an opteron? |
| 02:31.49 | dli | Maloeran, enough time to compile openoffice from source :( |
| 02:34.01 | Maloeran | If only so, dli, my laptop battery lasts a hour. I'll have to stock up on batteries |
| 02:34.23 | Maloeran | IriX64, server-class variant of your processor, optimisation rules for GCC are the same |
| 02:34.54 | IriX64 | ty i learned something... you (whatever) you learn. |
| 02:34.55 | dli | Maloeran, you mentioned 2 stops, you have chance to plugin and charge |
| 02:44.43 | IriX64 | why didn't you tell me my pix weren't displaying on my blog? fixed now if you want to see havoc with 1024 irradiance rays. |
| 07:42.40 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-230.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:13.29 | *** join/#brlcad clock__ (i=clock@84-72-60-230.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:06.26 | Twingy | http://darkertechnologies.com/projects/darker_biamp/heatsink/biamp_heatsink-12.jpg |
| 17:06.29 | Twingy | ^-- made in gcam |
| 17:07.23 | Twingy | made from soda cans too |
| 17:11.36 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:13.10 | IriX64 | Twingy, superb, you're a tool and die man? |
| 17:14.04 | IriX64 | why do i not get a display with ogl now? |
| 17:15.07 | IriX64 | my doing i guess ah well |
| 17:16.15 | IriX64 | ermf farkled X too |
| 17:16.45 | IriX64 | should be able too... |
| 17:23.27 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487720D.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 17:24.25 | Twingy | IriX64, I didn't make it, randy did |
| 17:24.31 | Twingy | I just made the stock |
| 17:24.59 | IriX64 | interesting your gcam is NC stuff? |
| 17:25.17 | Twingy | jes |
| 17:25.22 | IriX64 | ermf X comes up ogl coredumps, go figure |
| 17:25.58 | IriX64 | I took care of a vax doing train wheels at the plant interesting lathes they have. |
| 17:26.24 | IriX64 | mylar forever ;) |
| 17:26.59 | Twingy | wait till you see the chip amps he built that go inside |
| 17:27.21 | louipc | not bad eh |
| 17:27.54 | Twingy | http://darkertechnologies.com/projects/darker_biamp/heatsink/biamp_heatsink-11.jpg |
| 17:28.31 | louipc | taking multiple passes for those thin slots? |
| 17:28.45 | IriX64 | shaper? |
| 17:28.48 | Twingy | yep |
| 17:28.52 | Twingy | cnc mill |
| 17:29.04 | louipc | I guess the tolerance isn't too critical for those |
| 17:30.34 | IriX64 | nice machines those can toll down to .0001 |
| 17:30.34 | IriX64 | err .001 |
| 17:30.34 | louipc | .0001 inch |
| 17:30.34 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:30.35 | louipc | is standard |
| 17:30.35 | IriX64 | mines old :) |
| 17:30.35 | louipc | for cnc |
| 17:30.35 | Twingy | the machine will provide 0.00003125 tolerance |
| 17:30.35 | Twingy | 1 / (8 * 20 * 200) |
| 17:30.35 | IriX64 | Twingy please the stuff i played with was 30 years ago. |
| 17:30.46 | IriX64 | and i dont trave in the ms very often unless trouble comes up. |
| 17:30.53 | IriX64 | travel too. |
| 17:31.05 | louipc | hah I played with a Minimatic 500 |
| 17:31.17 | louipc | it had the funkmaster flex logo on it |
| 17:31.24 | louipc | no graphical display |
| 17:31.40 | louipc | horizontal CNC mill, pretty damned old |
| 17:32.13 | louipc | it used taped, but it was fitted for code transfer from a computer so I didn't need to worry about that |
| 17:32.13 | IriX64 | we didn't have one |
| 17:32.32 | IriX64 | cincinatti or ohio? |
| 17:32.56 | louipc | japanese |
| 17:34.11 | louipc | you had to manually calculate the tool radius offsets for that too hahh |
| 17:34.44 | IriX64 | pays to take a math course with you're machine shop course :) |
| 17:35.45 | IriX64 | man help me here i have a #ifdef IF_OGL with nothing folowwing it. |
| 17:36.14 | IriX64 | if_ogl.c line 54 |
| 17:36.49 | Twingy | fun, now I can easily make gears |
| 17:37.04 | IriX64 | heh make your own bicycle |
| 17:37.51 | Twingy | jes |
| 17:38.10 | Twingy | I will do a spur gear or sprocket tutorial for next release |
| 17:38.23 | IriX64 | try a worm gear. |
| 17:42.30 | IriX64 | something i'm not groking here if_x has similar but no matching endif or im missing it |
| 17:43.01 | Twingy | worm gear will be easy once I put stuff in for 4th axis |
| 17:43.46 | louipc | hmm I've never done a thread in CAM wonder how that would work |
| 17:43.58 | louipc | a worm gear is just an acme thread yeah? |
| 17:43.59 | Twingy | use a conical or a bull nose |
| 17:44.30 | Twingy | make your helix to make threads per inch, like a common 1/4" 20TPI |
| 17:44.49 | Twingy | then figure out if you want a class 1,2, or 3 fit |
| 17:45.22 | Twingy | the only tricky part is getting it mounted correctly |
| 17:45.56 | louipc | actually now that I think about it it would be pretty simple |
| 17:46.27 | IriX64 | im all wet |
| 17:47.01 | IriX64 | in x ayway you can comment out all if_x with that define:) |
| 17:47.14 | louipc | well TPI is based on feed/rev, the fit is based on internal/external dia, then all you need to define is angle of approach for the different passes |
| 17:47.58 | IriX64 | sigh same for if_ogl |
| 17:52.23 | Twingy | and depth |
| 17:55.29 | IriX64 | if you find /dev/ogl do you want or not want mode to be set to 0? (I know squat about opengl) line 717 if_ogl.c |
| 18:04.49 | IriX64 | is cygtls a TCL think, anybody know? |
| 18:04.56 | IriX64 | thing too |
| 18:44.45 | louipc | but there are canned cycles on cnc lathes for thread turning |
| 19:25.25 | Twingy | but I don't have a cnc lathe |
| 19:25.31 | Twingy | just a 4 axis mill |
| 19:36.16 | Twingy | pattern tool is done |
| 20:21.04 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/spur_gear.jpg |
| 20:22.22 | IriX64 | would it be too much to ask for target physical dimensions somewhere on the screen? |
| 20:22.55 | Twingy | the grid isn't enough? |
| 20:23.04 | IriX64 | summary thing |
| 20:23.29 | Twingy | in due time :) |
| 20:23.34 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:24.44 | Twingy | you would need to use 1/16" end mill for that |
| 20:25.10 | Twingy | otherwise the gear would come out funky looking |
| 20:25.17 | IriX64 | dont know the mill just the computer that drives it. |
| 20:25.41 | Twingy | jes, but the mill requires a cutting tool |
| 20:25.50 | Twingy | and it needs to be the right size |
| 20:26.03 | IriX64 | ah got it i call it a bit |
| 20:26.42 | IriX64 | mmm thats a lathes tool tho right? |
| 20:26.50 | IriX64 | mine i mean. |
| 20:26.51 | Twingy | lathe uses a cutting tool |
| 20:27.02 | Twingy | mill uses and end-mill |
| 20:27.12 | IriX64 | got it |
| 20:27.28 | Twingy | think I will cut a few gears when I get my cnc back |
| 20:27.37 | Twingy | broach them as well |
| 20:27.46 | IriX64 | broach? |
| 20:27.51 | Twingy | yes, broach a key way |
| 20:28.08 | IriX64 | don't know the term broach |
| 20:28.30 | Twingy | can either broach a key way and 2 collars, or broach a key way with a set screw |
| 20:29.33 | Twingy | I wonder if I can make gears for my servos with 1/50" end mill |
| 20:30.17 | IriX64 | thats a fine tool |
| 20:30.20 | Twingy | that gear is 3,651 lines of g-code |
| 20:30.46 | IriX64 | you just punch that out and feed it to the machine? |
| 20:30.54 | Twingy | yep |
| 20:31.10 | Twingy | run it with a 1/16" at 1.5 ipm 6.5k rpm |
| 20:31.20 | Twingy | probly take 3 or 4 hours to cut |
| 20:31.55 | IriX64 | the bigger the end mill the longer right? do i understand that? |
| 20:32.01 | Twingy | nope |
| 20:32.08 | IriX64 | other way? |
| 20:32.11 | Twingy | you can buy any end mill imaginable |
| 20:32.39 | Twingy | you will snap longer ones easier if you don't know what you are doing |
| 20:32.51 | Twingy | or damager your machine if > 1/8" or so |
| 20:32.54 | Twingy | *damage |
| 20:33.00 | IriX64 | i meant longer timewise |
| 20:33.09 | Twingy | depends on the steppers |
| 20:33.13 | Twingy | and the spindle speed |
| 20:33.30 | IriX64 | your g-cam calculates those obviously |
| 20:33.42 | Twingy | if you are 40k rpm, vertical mill, with 800oz-in steppers and coolant, cut through Al like butter |
| 20:33.54 | IriX64 | ah |
| 20:33.55 | Twingy | nope, I let the machinist put what they want in |
| 20:34.22 | Twingy | different speeds give different finishes |
| 20:34.31 | Twingy | also do certain wear and tear on the end mill |
| 20:34.41 | Twingy | for a production run you tune this to what you need |
| 20:35.08 | Twingy | after you machine stuff for a while you can usually guess with in 10% of what the most optimal value will be |
| 20:35.15 | Twingy | for that specific machine |
| 20:35.21 | Twingy | for a different machine, totally different |
| 20:35.31 | IriX64 | get to know your equipment huh? |
| 20:35.36 | Twingy | the taig, yep |
| 20:35.48 | Twingy | this isn't like ray-tracing |
| 20:35.55 | Twingy | where you press a big red button and it does its thing |
| 20:36.15 | Twingy | it's a little more intimate than that |
| 20:36.18 | IriX64 | is g-cam what am i trying to say here whats the status of g-cam? |
| 20:36.28 | IriX64 | readiness wise |
| 20:36.32 | Twingy | it's stable |
| 20:36.37 | Twingy | as of last 2 releases |
| 20:36.39 | IriX64 | good job |
| 20:36.46 | Twingy | not bug reports as of last release |
| 20:36.47 | Twingy | *no |
| 20:36.53 | Twingy | just feature requests |
| 20:37.08 | IriX64 | enjoy :) |
| 20:37.11 | Twingy | got a $32 donation last night |
| 20:37.46 | Twingy | now I will start building up a part library |
| 20:37.47 | IriX64 | people used to send me donations for my not-for-profit bs years ago |
| 20:37.55 | IriX64 | *bbs |
| 20:38.06 | Twingy | gears, sockets, mounts, etc |
| 20:38.53 | Twingy | make them available on the wiki |
| 20:38.53 | Twingy | would be nice to see a generation of open source hardware made available in gcam |
| 20:38.58 | Twingy | electronics and mechanical |
| 20:56.34 | clock_ | Twingy: I have some open source hardware but unfortunately it isn't done in gcam http://ronja.twibright.com |
| 20:57.06 | clock_ | Twingy: make a clanking replicator :) |
| 21:01.53 | IriX64 | often though...wifi printers and scanners and such .. links |
| 21:01.58 | IriX64 | thought too |
| 21:02.31 | IriX64 | use it or lose it :) |
| 21:08.26 | IriX64 | biscuits too |
| 21:28.52 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!BFB9E7E9DA2BD02D!113&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum |
| 21:30.07 | louipc | that's one long assed link |
| 21:30.19 | IriX64 | yeah sorry |
| 21:30.32 | louipc | why don't you set up an httpd to share photos? |
| 21:30.58 | louipc | or maybe one of those photo specific sites |
| 21:31.01 | IriX64 | don't have a static ip louipc |
| 21:31.26 | IriX64 | suppose i could email everybody :) |
| 21:31.34 | louipc | IriX64: no-ip.org |
| 21:31.46 | IriX64 | ty ill check right now. |
| 21:33.03 | louipc | odd that link doesn't look like it actually give a specific photo |
| 21:40.36 | IriX64 | gives me one |
| 21:42.47 | IriX64 | why is that link so long? |
| 21:44.00 | IriX64 | try this www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 21:48.30 | louipc | yeah thats much better |
| 21:53.42 | IriX64 | ty |
| 22:07.37 | IriX64 | there a section for brlcad only :) |
| 22:15.06 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 22:55.28 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad/BRL-CAD <--- latest build |
| 22:57.38 | IriX64 | sorce anybody, i'm feeling like a sorceror ;) |
| 22:58.36 | IriX64 | those can all be individually or globaly extraced. |
| 22:58.51 | IriX64 | extraced too |
| 22:59.02 | IriX64 | err extracted |
| 23:03.45 | IriX64 | updated, those views are all functional |
| 23:03.58 | IriX64 | ill shut up now |
| 23:54.43 | IriX64 | say is it all right to show those to others outside this channel, would give you good press. |
| 00:12.18 | IriX64 | you might have told me metaball support is .... thin :) |
| 00:53.27 | IriX64 | archivist: how did you do with that tutorial? |
| 01:22.21 | IriX64 | cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wall -pedantic -std=c99 -pipe" <--- in /adrt/libtie, those flags did *not come from configure |
| 01:24.33 | IriX64 | man... makefile.am AM_CFLAGS= those hard coded. |
| 01:28.30 | IriX64 | gone...next run should be clean, for now ill edit makefile |
| 01:58.48 | IriX64 | adrt pffffffft :( |
| 02:08.44 | Twingy | =) |
| 02:36.23 | IriX64 | heh Twingy: how to make a little splash in a big pond ;) |
| 02:36.24 | IriX64 | say is the source to the sparc version available, some stuff id love to steal from there. |
| 02:36.24 | IriX64 | i'm dead, i don't have gl/device.h :( |
| 02:36.24 | IriX64 | ill shut up now |
| 02:42.55 | IriX64 | asus makes a fine motherboard but they're a little to quick to deem stuff "legacy", they took the b floppy out of their bios :( |
| 03:06.35 | brlcad | like an energizer bunny |
| 03:11.59 | IriX64 | prefer the mallory bunny :) |
| 04:31.13 | Maloeran | I haven't had a floppy drive in 8 years, people still use these? |
| 04:31.26 | IriX64 | i do :) |
| 04:31.57 | Maloeran | Even in the days of 33.6 modems, it was still faster to dump the data remotely by zmodem than put in on many, many floppies |
| 04:32.20 | IriX64 | i have a treasure trove of old stuff |
| 04:32.36 | IriX64 | 33.6 try 300 baud or 110 :) |
| 04:35.17 | Maloeran | I grew up with 486 66mhz, video cards of 1mb memory with VESA 2.0, these were nice days |
| 04:35.47 | IriX64 | if you didn't throw it out youll still have nice days |
| 04:35.58 | Maloeran | I liked how most of the hardware understood standard interfaces, and you could do pretty much anything directly from DOS, including writing OSes from scratch |
| 04:38.35 | IriX64 | custom work is usually for ones own self, problem is others take an interest :) |
| 04:50.32 | IriX64 | make |
| 04:50.42 | IriX64 | sorry. |
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| 16:47.43 | IriX64 | rt'ing in each quadrant works nicely, good job people, look in www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad |
| 16:56.25 | IriX64 | hah did it got the stryker pix there :) |
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| 20:23.13 | IriX64 | is it just me or does everybody have trouble compiling if_ogl in src/libfb? |
| 20:25.41 | IriX64 | try rhis in if_ogl.c #define _LOCAL_ gets it to compile here. |
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| 21:58.04 | IriX64 | compiles done soons this install is done ill know. |
| 22:10.23 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php <--ah well still fails but now im more knoledable . |
| 22:10.39 | IriX64 | err knowlegable |
| 23:06.55 | IriX64 | back to X i quit on ogl (for now) :) |
| 00:18.06 | IriX64 | err just noticed, never mind the index :) i screwup like that regularly. |
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| 01:58.58 | IriX64 | what frequency? :) |
| 02:00.11 | Maloeran | Perhaps to see if there's some bug left? I left it run with distributed processing on 3 boxes for about 36 hours, I'm hoping it's fine |
| 02:40.15 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/EndgameFramework/Makefile.am: include the defs file so we get additional rules |
| 02:41.07 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: stub rules so recursion completes cleanly |
| 02:41.36 | brlcad | possibly |
| 04:19.56 | IriX64 | Hah you may have another customer, the local mill has people watching my antics with brlcad. |
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| 16:18.35 | ``Erik | and now I'm on vacation for a week, w00t :D |
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| 16:28.46 | Maloeran | Erik, send me a big endian cache! You told me that already :p |
| 16:29.02 | Maloeran | It can't be much to fix, but I need a big endian cache |
| 16:39.33 | brlcad | should just always write the cache out in network order, then the format is well known |
| 16:41.02 | brlcad | that's why all the posix routines exist for this :) |
| 16:41.39 | ``Erik | I'd need to get approval to send ya that... I like just writing out in network (correct) order... um |
| 16:41.52 | ``Erik | rtcmp has a triangle cache file that's held that way... I think it even works |
| 16:41.54 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 16:46.42 | Maloeran | Network order involves unnecessary byte swapping |
| 16:47.35 | Maloeran | If graphs are to be synchronized in a distributed processing network, with geometry being constantly modified, avoiding the byte swapping just makes sense |
| 16:47.57 | ``Erik | um, depends on what endian your machine is |
| 16:48.36 | Maloeran | I also prefer big endian for obscure reasons, but reality is different |
| 16:54.38 | ``Erik | um, it "fails" as part of its regular process :/ |
| 16:54.47 | ``Erik | which is why there's all that setjmp/longjmp crap going on |
| 16:56.13 | Maloeran | All right, cool |
| 16:58.12 | ``Erik | um, have you looked at rtcmp over the weekend? I'm trying to abstract out the BRL-CAD crap in it some to simplify rayforce/rayforce.c |
| 16:58.56 | Maloeran | I looked last week, I'll update |
| 17:02.28 | ``Erik | all the librt stuff was removed from adrt/adrt.c and put into tri.c, which does caching out to a file |
| 17:02.53 | ``Erik | which means all you have to do is cope with a simple linked list with straight xyz float data |
| 17:25.36 | ``Erik | http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=1284 |
| 17:31.13 | Maloeran | If I knew any modelling software rather than writing code to do it, I suspect the task would be easier |
| 17:36.14 | brlcad | uhm.. you're reading/writing to disk .. which is usually at least an order of magnitude more time-consuming than any "unnecessary byteswapping" .. which is why it flat out doesn't matter -- if you have a profile that shows otherwise, that would probably be worthy of academic publication |
| 17:37.31 | Maloeran | brlcad, graph caches are also used for distributed processing synchronisation |
| 17:39.25 | brlcad | i don't think you're stupid, you just make bizzare statements that smell of inexperience or pedantic religion where it really doesn't matter (sometimes) |
| 17:39.43 | brlcad | think you're quite brilliant actually, novel approaches |
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| 17:40.14 | brlcad | but i still fail to see how the use of the files/data has any bearing on byte swapping -- educate me? :) |
| 17:40.53 | brlcad | if you have to read disk, and that is the IF .. then byte swapping doesn't matter since 99% or better of your time is spent on an uncontrolled I/O variable |
| 17:41.11 | Maloeran | Indeed |
| 17:41.50 | brlcad | if you're not reading disk or talking about memory mapped stuff that might be optimized to avoid I/O then things can change.. but nothing you've said indicated this |
| 17:41.53 | Maloeran | When updating graphs over a network for distributed processing though, any unnecessary work should be avoided |
| 17:42.13 | Maloeran | The same graph caches are used for disk storage or synchronisation |
| 17:44.35 | brlcad | there's certainly some disjoint in the conversation, or something you're just not saying perhaps |
| 17:44.50 | brlcad | that's all fine and well understood -- that doesn't change the nature of I/O |
| 17:45.02 | brlcad | disk I/O in particular |
| 17:46.09 | Maloeran | Of course, I don't deny that any disk I/O will be a far bigger bottleneck than swapping bytes |
| 17:46.11 | brlcad | having it be one encoding in a heterogenous environment is what makes it necessary, else you just punt on portability and only support big/little |
| 17:46.22 | ``Erik | or network i/o, even with smokin' fast network |
| 17:46.41 | brlcad | exactly.. that's all utterly dwarfed |
| 17:46.41 | Maloeran | But during distributed processing, the nodes don't necessary "block" waiting for the data to arrive, they can be kept busy with previously queued work |
| 17:48.25 | Maloeran | The impact might be small, but it wasn't much more trouble in the code either. I'm sure it will be quickly fixed as soon as I can see a big endian cache |
| 17:48.41 | brlcad | er, I wouldn't have imagined that you'd make the processing nodes swap bytes - whatever *actually* reads/writes to disk would |
| 17:49.02 | brlcad | which with distributed, would be a different node, so the non-blocking becomes irrelevant |
| 17:49.40 | ``Erik | brlcad, are you in the office today? |
| 17:49.47 | brlcad | the other point is that hton*() functions aren't just little/big endian -- there are other formats |
| 17:49.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: no |
| 17:50.02 | ``Erik | bah |
| 17:50.05 | Maloeran | I see, I didn't really consider other formats |
| 17:50.29 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 17:50.41 | ``Erik | been a long time since I've heard of any of the other formats, like 'middle' endian |
| 17:51.45 | brlcad | this is true, it's a minor consideration, but part of the overall purpose and portability |
| 17:53.56 | brlcad | aside from the other reasons mentioned .. I mean eventually something is effectively doing a write()/read() .. |
| 17:54.34 | ``Erik | heh, "bits is bits" at the end of the day, yes :) |
| 17:55.47 | brlcad | i can understand a "don't want to do it", or "don't like it" even, or one of several other reasons, but just not in the namesake of performance |
| 17:56.17 | Maloeran | As I said, it's just that the processors are not necessarily idle while receiving data from the network |
| 17:57.00 | Maloeran | Performing byte swapping on network I/O is clearly unnecessary if nodes are of the same endianness |
| 18:00.56 | brlcad | disk, man .. disk! are these caches only in memory or something (a critical detail failed to be mentioned)? |
| 18:02.32 | Maloeran | When doing distributed processing synchronisation, there is no disk I/O involved! |
| 18:02.55 | ``Erik | network i/o can be almost as horrible as disk i/o :) |
| 18:03.30 | ``Erik | now with decent hw and drivers (dma) and "zero-copy" networking we see in SOME os's (um, linux, fbsd, and MAYBE solaris?), that's an offloaded task |
| 18:03.32 | ``Erik | but it's still there |
| 18:03.51 | brlcad | you could have mentioned that earlier (distributed sync has no implication of whether disk is involved) .. though similar holds for network I/O too |
| 18:06.19 | brlcad | and even for in-memory is seriously prematurely-optimizing in a manner that impacts the architecture |
| 18:07.10 | ``Erik | also makes assumptions about the basic paradigms |
| 18:07.12 | brlcad | imho at least, it seems counterproductive to the goal and unnecessarily complicates |
| 18:07.14 | ``Erik | um |
| 18:07.35 | ``Erik | does every node carry a complete copy of the data set? or are nodes specialized? |
| 18:07.49 | ``Erik | is this only a hit at the very beginning? or does it happen through "regular processing"? |
| 18:07.49 | brlcad | but hey, i'm not writing it, so have fun :) |
| 18:07.50 | ``Erik | etc |
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| 18:18.31 | ``Erik | http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newphotos/weird/weird796.shtml |
| 18:18.36 | ``Erik | holy crap, the driver survived |
| 18:18.55 | ``Erik | at least my dead exotic isn't shown there, heh, yet |
| 18:24.32 | Maloeran | ``Erik, all nodes maitain a complete copy of the data set, any changes on the master node is spread on the network |
| 18:25.07 | Maloeran | Graph caches are used to provide or update graphs, so it happens during "regular processing" if dynamic geometry is involved |
| 18:25.14 | ``Erik | so if I have 79 gigs of triangle data... *cough* O:-) |
| 18:25.34 | Maloeran | In a single model? Then you may have a problem :) |
| 18:26.08 | Maloeran | It just means you won't be able to enable master/slave relationship, instead using "peers" and manage state yourself using different smaller models |
| 18:37.53 | ``Erik | mal! didja grab an update of rtcmp? |
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| 20:05.12 | dli | can I label dimensions with brlcad? like in the traditional blueprint |
| 20:25.16 | brlcad | dli: not easily -- that's more of a drafting facility than one specific to solid modeling and (as such) hasn't really been well developed |
| 20:25.28 | brlcad | would be a great feature to have though, and not too complicated |
| 20:27.37 | dli | brlcad, yeah, after getting my design, it's a pity that all dimensions are known but not be able to show |
| 20:46.07 | brlcad | not a great solution in the least, but you could add them manually with an image editor, depending on the purpose |
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| 21:00.15 | Maloeran | Erik, your configure script gave me : "checking for rt_prep in -lrt... no" because it doesn't find tcl. Next, I get tri.c:234: error: too few arguments to function 'bu_realloc |
| 21:00.30 | Maloeran | error: 'nmg_bool_eval_silent' undeclared too |
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| 22:11.23 | Maloeran | The undocumented and obscure SDL 1.3 CVS sure is hard to figure how to patch N-buffering, they changed the whole video API |
| 22:19.06 | Maloeran | As far as I can see, they are mostly dropping 2d capabilities, buffer flipping sure is gone |
| 22:51.29 | Maloeran | Grah! Why is ./configure not putting anything in its .h file from a AC_CHECK_FUNCS(SDL_SetScreenSurface) ? It is found : checking for SDL_SetScreenSurface... yes |
| 23:19.03 | Maloeran | ( Solved, deleting the cache did it ) |
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| 04:23.11 | leed | Hello everyone. I want to use brlcad build a 3d model and convert it to ACIS format. |
| 04:23.40 | brlcad | leed: hello leed |
| 04:24.13 | brlcad | you'll have to use an intermediary format at the moment as there's no direct path |
| 04:24.35 | brlcad | there is an experimental SAT exporter under development, but it's not ready for even testing use |
| 04:25.21 | brlcad | so you'd have to use one of the export formats: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg |
| 04:26.52 | leed | brlcad: I have never used brlcad before. I want to whether brlcad can deal with my problem. If the answer is yes, I will learn how to use brlcad. |
| 04:28.14 | brlcad | leed: fair enough |
| 04:28.38 | brlcad | it's a common misperception (that I'm working on addressing with the new website) as to what brl-cad actually is and does |
| 04:28.50 | brlcad | where it's strengths and weaknesses and capabilities are at |
| 04:29.22 | brlcad | we're not autocad in the least for example, nor do we really cater to drafting or other 2D modeling features very well (or at all in some cases) |
| 04:29.43 | brlcad | so, what's your problem? |
| 04:32.52 | leed | I want to build a 3d model and convert to ACIS format. Then I can import it to Gambit. |
| 04:34.05 | leed | I have only use ACIS format so far. |
| 04:36.41 | leed | If there are some more effective means, please let me know. |
| 04:42.09 | brlcad | well, that's pretty general requirements actually :) |
| 04:42.21 | brlcad | you can certainly build 3d models and export to formats that acis will read |
| 04:42.45 | brlcad | though they will be polygonalized, and you'll have to learn a fair bit of how to model using mged beforehand |
| 04:42.55 | brlcad | they will, however, be solid models |
| 04:43.40 | brlcad | shame our SAT exporter isn't complete -- that actually integrates well with Cubit |
| 04:44.58 | brlcad | could possibly get you to be a beta tester for it, though you'd need to acquire a Cubit license to use the binary iirc |
| 04:51.19 | leed | Thank you for your suggestion. |
| 04:52.09 | leed | I think I need some time to learn how to use brlcad at first. |
| 04:55.35 | brlcad | have you downloaded the tutorial series? |
| 04:56.01 | brlcad | that will take you through some of the basics (and are pretty much required reading to have any proficiency) |
| 04:56.15 | brlcad | and give you an idea of whether the interface can work for you |
| 04:57.04 | leed | I am downloading brlcad-7.8.0_linux_ia32.tgz right now. |
| 05:00.04 | leed | Thanks for your help. I get go now. |
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| 13:37.56 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 13:37.56 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: add a test for -Wno-non-template-friend so that compilation in openNURBS can be |
| 13:37.57 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: quelled for behavior that is intended (gcc assumes we might be relying on their |
| 13:37.57 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: previously non-conformant behavior). report CXXFLAGS.. probably need to make the |
| 13:37.57 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: BC_COMPILER_* functions sensitive to the AC_LANG.. |
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| 14:48.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dave davis reported that performing a units operation on an empty .g file results in an assert bomb (undoubtedly because there's no _GLOBAL) |
| 15:07.13 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: just verify build, too many changes with tcl/tk |
| 15:12.01 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 15:12.01 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: since incrTcl needs to link against Tcl internal headers in order to compile |
| 15:12.01 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: successfully, that ends up placing a requirement on the version of tcl such that |
| 15:12.01 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: it must be at least the version we ship or later. this should fix one of john's |
| 15:12.02 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: compilation woes on ubuntu. |
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| 17:44.11 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 17:44.11 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: erik fixed rtedge multithreaded output render bug reported by clock3 aka Karel |
| 17:44.11 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: Kulhavy (sf bug 1657171 - 7.8.4. rtedge renders bullshit). the problem was a |
| 17:44.12 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: race condition when rendering in parallel on output to a file that would cause |
| 17:44.12 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: scanlines to be written to file out-of-order. a modification was made to have |
| 17:44.14 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: file output wait for each line in order before writing. |
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| 18:03.01 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 18:43.57 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: make make noprod work correctly, remove enigma binary |
| 18:47.01 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): er, don't do nothing.. make make noprod work correctly, remove the tcl/tk products |
| 18:50.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 18:50.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: GAH, case typo s/TCl/TCL/ .. explains why Tcl and itcl would periodically pass |
| 18:50.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: their functionality test when they should not have. also, re-enable the touch |
| 18:50.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: of the header template, but this time only if the file is non-empty -- needs |
| 18:50.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: more testing across autoconf versions still. |
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| 21:27.19 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 21:27.41 | dli | can I import a part from another database file? |
| 21:36.33 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:37.52 | brlcad | the 'proper' way is to run the "dbconcat" command or similarly File -> Import .. those will check for name collisions and rename for you |
| 21:38.20 | brlcad | or you can simply "cat" the files together on the command line, the result .g will warn about multiple _GLOBAL entries, but it will be valid |
| 21:42.16 | brlcad | of, if you just want a portion of another database file, do a "keep" operation (or File -> Export) on the objects you want, and then import those |
| 21:57.01 | dli | brlcad, thanks. |
| 21:58.18 | deltazap | dli: i was going to ask about that as well |
| 21:58.48 | dli | deltazap, I now realize it's somewhere in the tutorial |
| 21:58.56 | deltazap | :X |
| 21:59.19 | deltazap | slowly but surely making my way through it |
| 22:04.25 | dli | my design: http://saras-bhat.uchicago.edu/chamber1.png |
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| 22:40.25 | louipc | what does that do? |
| 22:41.09 | dli | louipc, my picture? it's a Ultra-High-Vacuum chamber |
| 22:41.34 | louipc | fancy |
| 22:42.01 | louipc | I need to start modeling some things |
| 22:42.12 | louipc | I don't know what though hahh |
| 22:42.57 | dli | louipc, follow the tutorial (as I did) is a must |
| 22:43.03 | louipc | yeah |
| 22:43.21 | louipc | I'll probably have to do the tutorial again. It's been a long time |
| 22:43.36 | louipc | but I don't know what I want to model |
| 22:43.40 | dli | louipc, it's much more complex then I imagined. since I haven't finished the tutorial yet |
| 22:43.48 | louipc | maybe I'll design a guitar yeah! |
| 22:45.05 | dli | louipc, what about 2D cad, like qcad |
| 22:45.30 | louipc | dli: what about it? |
| 22:45.30 | dli | louipc, I need blueprints for the machine shop, still rely on qcad |
| 22:46.00 | dli | louipc, a very simple blueprint from qcad: http://saras-bhat.uchicago.edu/si0.png |
| 22:46.05 | louipc | I use solidworks dwg editor at work |
| 22:47.29 | louipc | hehe qcad might be better, I never considered that |
| 22:47.37 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014740.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:47.46 | dli | louipc, it's free also. but it can not do 3D |
| 22:48.38 | louipc | dli: yeah. I know. |
| 22:48.48 | dli | louipc, a little bit more complex from qcad: http://saras-bhat.uchicago.edu/cell9a.pdf |
| 22:49.27 | dli | louipc, you draw basically the old way |
| 22:49.56 | louipc | hey.. that's 3d :P |
| 22:50.42 | louipc | but you had to draw that manually? |
| 22:50.44 | dli | louipc, yes, the way I learnt during my college course: engineering drawing |
| 22:51.12 | louipc | how do you do the radius' properly? |
| 22:51.18 | louipc | interesting |
| 22:51.35 | dli | louipc, projection of circles :) |
| 22:52.10 | louipc | hmm I've never done projection of circles. that's neat though |
| 22:52.30 | dli | louipc, if you know how to project x- y- z-, then, you can work out the equation for circle |
| 22:54.14 | louipc | is that 35 degree tilt? |
| 22:55.23 | dli | louipc, yes, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection |
| 22:55.45 | louipc | yeah, so with that math you can draw at any other angle eh? |
| 22:55.57 | louipc | hah I never learned that |
| 22:56.08 | louipc | well I know what isometric is |
| 22:56.26 | dli | louipc, hehe, I got A in my drawing course, only found it's so much easier with qcad |
| 22:56.54 | louipc | I've never touched a drafting table :/ |
| 22:57.43 | dli | louipc, better, most valuable part is the design, you can always hire someone to make the drawings |
| 22:57.59 | louipc | I've only used computers I mean |
| 22:59.02 | dli | louipc, we had to start we pencil and rubber, good education still |
| 22:59.10 | louipc | yeah definitely |
| 22:59.31 | louipc | + protractor, straightedge, compass, square hah |
| 23:01.23 | dli | louipc, I wonder whether it's possible for brl-cad to merge some codes from qcad, and support drafting |
| 23:03.11 | louipc | yeah that would be handy |
| 23:04.47 | louipc | dli: do you know how to draw perspective view? |
| 23:05.49 | dli | louipc, no, I think it's something like the last chapter in my course, but I have forgotten all :( |
| 23:05.59 | louipc | aw |
| 23:07.46 | deltazap | dli: what OS do you use qcad with? |
| 23:08.05 | dli | deltazap, linux |
| 23:08.31 | deltazap | ok, i'm wondering if it's just me that has a problem with it on the mac |
| 23:08.34 | deltazap | it just doesn't feel right |
| 23:08.43 | dli | deltazap, for example? |
| 23:08.57 | louipc | deltazap: I used qcad before on linux, and it felt a bit strange |
| 23:09.08 | deltazap | just as an app on mac, it just doesn't fit well |
| 23:09.19 | deltazap | i'm way to use to the 'way things work' |
| 23:09.55 | deltazap | but, that won't matter much as i'm about to get a student copy of autocad or pro/e at the lab |
| 23:18.09 | deltazap | yet i'll probably end up using brlcad |
| 23:18.58 | louipc | not for 2d eh? |
| 23:19.14 | deltazap | probably not |
| 23:19.37 | deltazap | more for 3d models so i can show people what i plan to build |
| 23:19.57 | deltazap | but we'll see how it goes and how good i can get |
| 23:23.01 | deltazap | is there a way to have placeholder objects and then easily replace them in the model? |
| 00:10.12 | IriX64 | got that shuttle dxf to go, pix is on my blog, note its not the acad shuttle, but a dxf is a dxf. |
| 00:21.21 | deltazap | hmm? |
| 00:28.24 | louipc | what wm do you use? |
| 00:28.38 | louipc | or do you use linux? |
| 00:34.43 | brlcad | there have been several suggestions/discussions about merging some of qcad's capabilities with brl-cad's |
| 00:37.10 | brlcad | certainly doable, especially given how qcad just uses dxf for their format and we have a fairly comprehensive dxf importer and exporter |
| 00:48.53 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/404451 |
| 01:01.23 | IriX64 | is a release date actually set for 7-10? or is that a vaporeous thing still? :) |
| 01:05.10 | brlcad | any day now, as soon as these builds stabilize |
| 01:06.57 | IriX64 | are you *sure I can't have the database to stryker pix :) (ducking) |
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| 10:26.53 | cad86 | hi all |
| 10:27.09 | cad86 | is there someone in this irc? |
| 10:39.23 | clock_ | no |
| 10:39.27 | clock_ | you are here alone |
| 10:42.01 | cad86 | ok, and you're a ghost :-) |
| 10:42.16 | clock_ | no I am your alterego. You subconscious |
| 10:42.28 | cad86 | perfect. |
| 10:42.30 | cad86 | see you. |
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| 16:43.36 | IriX64 | brlcad: off duty? :) |
| 17:50.50 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/405334 < this should fix that bug I inadvertantly put in (mea culpa) |
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| 18:22.09 | brlcad | off what? |
| 18:22.38 | IriX64 | not sure what it should be |
| 18:23.05 | IriX64 | err sorry |
| 18:23.11 | brlcad | not sure what you're talking about |
| 18:23.49 | brlcad | /dev/ogll and /dev/ogl are both valid if ogl support is enabled, but mean different things |
| 18:24.12 | IriX64 | ty thought it should be one or the other |
| 18:24.14 | brlcad | "ogl" is the device name, anything that follows are settings |
| 18:24.27 | brlcad | there are a variety of possible settings (brlman libfb) |
| 18:24.40 | IriX64 | thats what im missingf thanks |
| 18:24.45 | brlcad | l is one of them, meaning "linger" .. i.e. don't close the window |
| 18:25.06 | brlcad | same is seen with /dev/X and /dev/Xl |
| 18:25.15 | IriX64 | got it |
| 18:25.16 | brlcad | X is the device, l means keep the window open |
| 18:25.26 | IriX64 | ill learn :) |
| 18:25.30 | brlcad | there are others for using shared memory, single/double buffering, etc |
| 18:25.39 | IriX64 | it is complex |
| 18:25.47 | brlcad | not really, just flexible |
| 18:26.06 | IriX64 | heh to you yes but im just starting out |
| 18:30.11 | IriX64 | -msses ;) |
| 19:31.26 | Maloeran | Do you guys know anything about the potential difficulties and risks of carrying a packed E-ATX computer case by plane? |
| 19:31.35 | Maloeran | I assume it wouldn't be adviseable |
| 19:32.46 | Maloeran | I'm just not too inspired to demonstrate raytracing on a crummy Sempron with 256kb of L2 cache when I have a desktop 15 times faster |
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| 19:34.51 | IriX64 | Maloeran, buy a seat for it. |
| 19:35.50 | IriX64 | like viola players do |
| 19:36.18 | Maloeran | Ouch, is that the only safe way? I'm not sure they would really let someone carry a big computer case in the plane, they tend to be paranoid enough |
| 19:36.37 | IriX64 | say its a viola :) |
| 19:39.11 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-230-163.uchicago.edu) | |
| 19:40.25 | IriX64 | mmm maybe a pet cage then? |
| 19:41.20 | dli | I made some drawings, but forgot the set units to "in". It's "mm" now, how could I fix this? |
| 20:02.16 | IriX64 | mc |
| 20:02.20 | IriX64 | sorry |
| 20:14.25 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Use NSIS instead of InstallShield/MSI for Windows binary releases and Generate plain .zip files too (suggestion by f_noel and others via irc and myself, msi is crap) |
| 21:00.40 | IriX64 | is there such a thing as a weekly snapshot of brlcad source? |
| 21:18.13 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.172.73) | |
| 22:42.10 | louipc | dli: maybe you can change the setting to inches and scale everything down |
| 22:42.36 | dli | louipc, not sure about scaling :( |
| 22:42.43 | louipc | IriX64: you should really check out CVS man |
| 22:43.03 | dli | louipc, I'm going to edit the binary .g file |
| 22:43.15 | louipc | what's wrong with scaling? |
| 22:43.37 | dli | louipc, I see it's easier to go with binary editor |
| 22:43.51 | dli | louipc, just one step, 1.00 => 2.54 |
| 22:44.34 | dli | louipc, I haven't finished "scaling" in tutorial yet |
| 22:44.41 | louipc | hehe ok |
| 22:45.45 | dli | louipc, scaling/matrix messed up |
| 22:46.05 | louipc | where in the file do you edit the units? |
| 22:46.09 | dli | louipc, I think the qcad idea is better, numbers can be in any units, so, make the numbers abstract |
| 22:46.15 | louipc | oh I see |
| 22:46.58 | louipc | units^@1. |
| 22:47.01 | louipc | 0000000000000000000000000e+00 |
| 22:47.08 | louipc | that's some crazy accuracy |
| 22:47.14 | louipc | er precision |
| 22:48.01 | louipc | dli: yeah the numbers are just interpreted based on what you label the drawing |
| 22:49.07 | louipc | but imagine importing a drawing that you drew based on metric into a drawing you drew based on imperial |
| 22:49.44 | louipc | the metric parts would be much bigger... so I guess it's kind of nice to base the units off of a standard |
| 22:50.13 | dli | louipc, no, doesn't work :( |
| 22:51.18 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-230-163.uchicago.edu) | |
| 22:51.30 | dli | louipc, no, binary editor doesn't work. now, help to scale |
| 22:52.00 | louipc | dli: to convert from metric to imperial you should divide by 25.4 actually |
| 22:52.19 | louipc | base units in metric is MM, not CM |
| 22:53.45 | louipc | hehe I'd have to go through the tutorial again myself |
| 22:53.59 | dli | louipc, you do a test, you will see it fails :( |
| 22:55.27 | dli | tell them to make the number and units independent :( |
| 22:55.31 | louipc | yeah I usually don't muck around in binary files :/ |
| 22:55.47 | dli | louipc, I don't know how to scale |
| 22:57.20 | louipc | hmm lets see |
| 23:02.14 | dli | louipc, this is very nasty :( |
| 23:05.19 | louipc | hmm ok you can change your settings to inch and load in the file |
| 23:05.30 | louipc | then you need to scale it down |
| 23:05.47 | dli | louipc, how to scale? |
| 23:09.19 | louipc | hehe good question |
| 23:10.31 | dli | louipc, all I can see it to scale all prim and matrix :( to redraw everything is even easier |
| 23:11.04 | dli | louipc, I can scale the final combination, but the leaves all prims with funny numbers, not a solution at all |
| 23:12.35 | louipc | how did you scale it? |
| 23:13.59 | dli | louipc, go to Edit -> Prim Selection or Matrix selection |
| 23:14.43 | dli | louipc, then, you can " sca <factor>", or "oscale <factor>" |
| 23:17.19 | louipc | ok |
| 23:18.53 | louipc | I'm not sure. I haven't actually used brlcad for a long while. It should be easier though shouldn't it? |
| 23:21.04 | louipc | I'm really just trying to get brlcad and all the dependencies packaged nicely for my distro for now |
| 23:21.38 | dli | louipc, I use gentoo, so, easier with a simple ebuild file |
| 23:22.55 | louipc | dli: yeah I made a basic package that just uses the stuff in src/other but I want to split those into separate packages so I don't need to re-install them every time |
| 23:23.20 | louipc | plus someone might find them useful for other purposes |
| 23:25.24 | dli | louipc, I'm going home :( feel stupid now, probably, redraw everything is easier |
| 23:25.45 | dli | louipc, btw, exporting as ascii doesn't work |
| 23:25.51 | louipc | yeah but you won't learn how to scale then |
| 23:26.00 | dli | louipc, otherwise, we can edit the ascii file |
| 23:26.12 | louipc | yea |
| 23:26.24 | dli | louipc, I mean it exports, but that ascii file is invalid at importing |
| 23:27.03 | louipc | oh hmm. I'm not sure how it's formatted so I couldn't say what's wrong |
| 23:27.29 | dli | louipc, brlcad complains it's wrong |
| 23:27.43 | brlcad | IriX64: there were snapshots, but they're not on-line atm |
| 23:27.54 | louipc | I understand |
| 23:28.22 | louipc | dli: I meant I couldn't specifically say what the problem is |
| 23:29.02 | brlcad | louipc: units issues? |
| 23:29.21 | dli | brlcad, yes, how to change units from "mm" to "in"? |
| 23:29.33 | brlcad | type: units in |
| 23:29.41 | dli | brlcad, "inch" |
| 23:29.55 | dli | brlcad, no :( it scales the coordinates |
| 23:30.40 | brlcad | then sounds like you don't want to just change the units being used, but resize things that are already created? |
| 23:31.10 | dli | brlcad, no. I forgot to set it to "in", now, how to correct this mistake |
| 23:31.40 | louipc | created a model basing it on 'in' but actually drawing in 'mm' |
| 23:32.26 | dli | louipc, yes, because I'm going to import this part into another database, I couldn't just ignore this |
| 23:32.26 | brlcad | gotya, so basically everything is too small |
| 23:32.49 | louipc | yea |
| 23:32.54 | dli | brlcad, yes, also, funny numbers |
| 23:33.23 | dli | brlcad, I can use oscale to scale the whole combination, but still leaving prim at funny numbers |
| 23:33.50 | louipc | hmm |
| 23:33.54 | brlcad | indeed, hmm |
| 23:34.12 | brlcad | what do you mean by funny? |
| 23:34.46 | dli | brlcad, because it has been scaled from correct values |
| 23:35.13 | louipc | so the scale can apply to the combination as a whole and not affect the prims? |
| 23:35.15 | brlcad | er, huh? :) |
| 23:35.52 | brlcad | i'm not following .. funny as in "seems wrong" or just undesirable, or something else? |
| 23:35.54 | dli | brlcad, the geometries are with correct numbers + wrong units. how to correct this |
| 23:36.43 | brlcad | assuming you don't have other matrices, the easiest is to just apply a matrix edit and push it |
| 23:37.00 | brlcad | oed, sca, accept done |
| 23:37.24 | dli | brlcad, okay, I will forget this, just redraw everything. I already knew your solution :( which is not a solution to me at all |
| 23:37.46 | brlcad | curious, why? |
| 23:38.03 | brlcad | there are other ways too, but that's one of the faster direct ways |
| 23:38.52 | dli | brlcad, I have an one inch cube, so I want to see ( -0,5 0.5 ), not ( -0.019, 0.0019)*25.4 |
| 23:39.57 | dli | brlcad, even worse, during editing, I see ( -0.019, 0.019) with cat, and go to matrix selection to see the 25.4 |
| 23:40.48 | dli | brlcad, is there anyway to make ascii database work? I can modify there |
| 23:41.34 | brlcad | dli: do you have other matrices in your combinations? |
| 23:41.43 | brlcad | if not, it sounds like the missing step is push |
| 23:41.54 | brlcad | push will apply the matrix to the primitves |
| 23:41.59 | dli | brlcad, yes, and this part will be imported to another database |
| 23:42.35 | dli | brlcad, hold on, I don't know the "push" command |
| 23:42.52 | brlcad | push gets rid of the matrices, applying them |
| 23:43.45 | brlcad | so instead of being a sphere centered at 0 0 0 with radius 10, with a pushed matrix, that might reposition, rescale, etc depending on the matrices above it |
| 23:44.07 | brlcad | if you need to retain the matrices, though, then you don't want to push |
| 23:44.34 | dli | brlcad, no, that doesn't help with prims |
| 23:44.58 | brlcad | another alternative, going the ascii route is to do a "keep" or File->Export in mged or g2asc on command-line, then edit direct |
| 23:45.36 | brlcad | everything is numerically stored in mm, so you'd edit units to say "in" and update the values accordingly |
| 23:45.42 | dli | brlcad, I tried the ascii database, but can not import the file |
| 23:46.33 | brlcad | why not? |
| 23:47.04 | brlcad | it will be sensitive to typos and other errors |
| 23:48.34 | dli | brlcad, I can import now. let me try to edit it |
| 23:48.48 | brlcad | i can ask one of the expert modellers what they do tomorrow, there could be a command that does exactly this that I just don't know about |
| 23:50.13 | dli | brlcad, so I have to change numbers in the ascii file too? |
| 23:50.54 | dli | brlcad, I feel it's easier to redraw everything manually |
| 23:59.29 | IriX64 | what other pastebins are there besides pastebin.ca and pastebin.org? |
| 00:00.26 | louipc | rafb.net/paste |
| 00:00.33 | IriX64 | ty |
| 00:00.36 | louipc | 'read a fine book' |
| 00:00.37 | louipc | :D |
| 00:00.42 | IriX64 | heh |
| 00:01.25 | louipc | you can even set up your own pastebin |
| 00:01.56 | brlcad | somehow I bet there's a command for this, or a form of export/import that does this that I just dont' know about |
| 00:02.03 | brlcad | seems like I've heard it before |
| 00:02.12 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/G6o6Xz74.html |
| 00:02.40 | IriX64 | i fixed my copy |
| 00:03.28 | IriX64 | err patched, not to be mistaken for a fix |
| 00:04.36 | brlcad | that's a new one even for you |
| 00:04.47 | brlcad | wonder what random edits you've been making to get that :) |
| 00:05.16 | IriX64 | funny too. |
| 00:05.53 | IriX64 | i's,j's, & k's flying every which way :) |
| 00:07.19 | IriX64 | not to be taken seriously, I was just testing cut and paste ;) |
| 00:07.38 | IriX64 | cd ../../ |
| 00:43.03 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 00:47.33 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/zttxup18.html |
| 00:47.45 | IriX64 | as i said "patched" |
| 01:16.28 | Maloeran | Woohoo, waking up at 4h am tomorrow morning for 8 hours of flight with 2 stops |
| 01:36.04 | Maloeran | With whom, if I may ask? |
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| 02:50.50 | IriX64 | 10565 normal is 565 |
| 02:51.14 | IriX64 | 16% load bwhaaaaaaa |
| 02:51.30 | IriX64 | sorrry i forget my place. |
| 02:53.28 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/U1VHm711.html <---the code not pretty but.... |
| 02:54.59 | IriX64 | sigh, sometimes i'm such a juvenile. |
| 03:02.27 | IriX64 | that code is just my junkbox of semi-usefull things to be tested :) |
| 03:07.24 | Maloeran | Hum. I can't commit on Rayforce. /usr/lib/ruby/1.6/net/protocol.rb:221:in `error!': 550 "550 5.7.1 <Lee's email here>... Relaying denied. IP name possibly forged [10.10.0.15]" (Net::ProtoFatalError) |
| 03:16.08 | Maloeran | Ah, the code was updated anyway |
| 03:21.57 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/2hexIT91.html don't let anyone tell you 7.8.4 doesn't compile and run. |
| 03:27.06 | IriX64 | you're supposed to say, good job, but which part is your contribution;) |
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| 16:59.40 | IriX64 | after all, life is about choices :) |
| 17:01.47 | IriX64 | mc |
| 18:51.04 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@400exp229.anlgh.org) | |
| 18:51.46 | dli | when I do arot for an object, how do I specify the rotation center? |
| 18:56.09 | dli | I found it, qorot does the trick |
| 19:11.06 | brlcad | yeah, various commands to rotate, depending on what you have to work with |
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| 21:19.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx: |
| 21:19.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: first production version with some cleanup. Works with most tested inputs |
| 21:19.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: including complex geometry. uses BBs when tessellation fail. still has some |
| 21:19.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: shutdown issue, maybe some other minor issues. requires Cubit libraries/headers |
| 21:19.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: to compile. |
| 22:29.57 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544065.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:18.52 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/ (Makefile.am README): Added Cubit |
| 02:03.48 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 02:03.48 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
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| 05:33.50 | cad98 | Hi |
| 05:46.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:46.15 | brlcad | from one channel to the next |
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| 17:15.47 | IriX64 | API=automated processing of information :) |
| 17:27.42 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734832.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:31.31 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/SLVHMX34.html |
| 17:31.40 | IriX64 | who takes care of this one. |
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| 17:41.46 | IriX64 | louipc identity issues :) |
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| 20:12.29 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): add map function and a couple binary operators |
| 20:13.55 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: add constants for ray-brep intersection routine (may need to be adjusted) |
| 20:23.36 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: add bv intersection routines. add rough initial rt_shot implementation using openNURBS functionality. needs testing! |
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| 21:28.36 | Maloeran | Hum oops, I'm sorry, Erik. I said to Lee that more feedback could have been nice during the project, and he said that was supposed to be your job |
| 21:28.54 | Maloeran | So you may hear something from him on that regard, I apologize |
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| 02:26.17 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/St0shs62.html |
| 02:26.21 | IriX64 | dudes... |
| 02:26.53 | IriX64 | the & part of that check does nothing, it will always result true dont you think? |
| 02:27.15 | IriX64 | the null part is covered by if!_ptr |
| 02:27.57 | Twingy | no |
| 02:27.58 | IriX64 | i see what its supposed to do |
| 02:28.15 | Twingy | it's checking the valid bits |
| 02:28.21 | Twingy | pointers have alignment |
| 02:28.37 | Twingy | it's checking that you don't have a misaligned pointer |
| 02:28.49 | IriX64 | but some are pointers to structs twingy its not always a long |
| 02:28.52 | Twingy | i.e bad mojo stored in the last 3 bites for a 32-bit machine |
| 02:29.02 | Twingy | forget about the long |
| 02:29.08 | Twingy | it's cast to a long to do an and operation |
| 02:29.17 | Twingy | it could just as well be an int |
| 02:29.23 | Twingy | or a ptr_t |
| 02:29.26 | IriX64 | i get you |
| 02:29.41 | Maloeran | intptr_t or ptrdiff_t would be the appropriate portable integer data types to hold a pointer |
| 02:30.17 | Twingy | not a good check to run if you are storing extra bits in your pointers |
| 02:30.22 | Twingy | as ray-tracing engines tend to do |
| 02:30.32 | IriX64 | true who does that ? :) |
| 02:30.36 | Twingy | everyone |
| 02:30.48 | IriX64 | heh mea culpa |
| 02:31.17 | IriX64 | putting a return on that macro for saome reason fixes the terra.g crashing mged problem tho , tested it works. |
| 02:31.22 | Maloeran | I have a "flags" int32_t in both nodes and sectors, I have bytes to waste to reach proper alignment for structs |
| 02:32.06 | Twingy | everyone-Maloeran |
| 02:32.10 | Twingy | :) |
| 02:32.15 | IriX64 | heh so i see |
| 02:32.45 | Twingy | Maloeran, when do you leave? |
| 02:32.57 | Maloeran | Plane is tomorrow at 12h |
| 02:33.00 | Twingy | ah |
| 02:33.07 | Twingy | if it left later I'd take you flying |
| 02:33.15 | Twingy | but I think it's raining tomorrow |
| 02:33.24 | Maloeran | Do you think I can call a cab here to get me to the airport? |
| 02:33.35 | Twingy | there are shuttles that do that |
| 02:33.41 | Twingy | I think it's called "Rapid Rover" |
| 02:33.43 | Maloeran | It's rather far, the taxi from the airport costs 95USD |
| 02:33.54 | Twingy | there are speacial vans that pick people up and take them to the airport |
| 02:34.01 | Maloeran | Hum. |
| 02:34.11 | Twingy | they usually run around and pick up 3 or 4 people and hit the airport |
| 02:34.15 | Maloeran | Should I ask the front desk for information about these things? |
| 02:34.17 | Twingy | in the same general area |
| 02:34.22 | Twingy | costs $40 or $50 |
| 02:34.32 | Twingy | maybe |
| 02:34.37 | Twingy | google would probly help |
| 02:34.43 | Twingy | or the baltimore airport website |
| 02:34.53 | Twingy | I know at philadelphia airport |
| 02:34.59 | Twingy | rapid rover will show up in a van for like $50 |
| 02:35.12 | Maloeran | I see, neat |
| 02:35.37 | Maloeran | A taxi could be fine too, assuming he really wants to go that far |
| 02:35.54 | Twingy | or grab a train to the marc station |
| 02:35.56 | Twingy | err taxi |
| 02:35.59 | Twingy | to marc train |
| 02:36.05 | Maloeran | Rapid Rover seems specific to PHL airport |
| 02:36.09 | Twingy | k |
| 02:36.22 | Twingy | BWI might have it's own version of that |
| 02:36.30 | Maloeran | Looking |
| 02:37.20 | Maloeran | BWI shuttle doesn't appear to go as far as Belcamp. Oh well, a taxi it is |
| 02:37.34 | Twingy | what about marc train? |
| 02:38.04 | Twingy | then again, marc train would be slower |
| 02:38.07 | Twingy | but alot cheaper |
| 02:38.09 | Maloeran | I'm unsure about experimenting with new means of transportation in a new area when on a tight schedule ( a train to catch ) |
| 02:38.13 | Twingy | k |
| 02:38.14 | Maloeran | a plane to catch, rather |
| 02:38.30 | Twingy | I'll let you sleep in one of my tool sheds if you miss the plane |
| 02:38.36 | Twingy | if you're real nice I'll let you stay in the garage |
| 02:38.55 | brlcad | yeah, should be 40-50 |
| 02:39.31 | Twingy | I'm so proud of myself |
| 02:39.39 | brlcad | a vanilla taxi would be bad - have to get an airport shuttle |
| 02:39.40 | Twingy | I wrote some opengl code that displayed lines today |
| 02:39.48 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:40.00 | brlcad | and I made an excellent white russian |
| 02:40.15 | Twingy | I'm working on my last diet pepsi |
| 02:40.52 | Maloeran | brlcad, a standard taxi wouldn't be appropriate? Hrmph. |
| 02:41.10 | Maloeran | I guess I'll just ask the front desk tomorrow to pick whatever works |
| 02:43.34 | brlcad | Maloeran: yeah, concierge should have connections to the airport shuttles, though you usually need a couple hours advance notice |
| 02:43.43 | Maloeran | I may get a driving license eventually, but I won't get a car anyhow... unless I move to ~Belcamp some day |
| 02:43.57 | Twingy | concierge, that's a fancy words |
| 02:44.14 | Twingy | Maloeran, a compressed air car |
| 02:44.16 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad, I'll try to wake up early enough |
| 02:44.21 | Twingy | I am going to build a compressed air bike |
| 02:44.43 | Twingy | as long as the bike doesn't fall over it won't explode |
| 02:44.51 | Maloeran | That air tank is going to be heavy. A muscle powered bicycle performs remarkably well too |
| 02:45.06 | Twingy | I'm more interested in doing something new |
| 02:45.34 | Maloeran | A wind powered car? |
| 02:45.41 | brlcad | if you end up having to take a regular taxi, it will be more expensive (not that you really need to care a "whole lot", it's a business expense) |
| 02:48.20 | Maloeran | Ah right, I need to remember to collect receipts too |
| 02:49.43 | brlcad | yep |
| 02:53.40 | Twingy | receipts can be burnt in my steam engine |
| 02:53.45 | Twingy | you should save those |
| 02:54.46 | Twingy | each one is worth a femtocent |
| 02:57.45 | Twingy | Not the mama! |
| 02:57.53 | Twingy | momma |
| 03:52.10 | louipc_ | damn I'm timing out like there's no tomorrow |
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| 13:17.24 | Maloeran | Hrm. Does anyone feel like playing the wingate-BWI taxi for a hundred bucks? :) |
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| 14:28.54 | bjorkBSD | Twingy, you have a team engine? |
| 14:29.12 | bjorkBSD | *steam |
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| 17:50.33 | IriX64 | putting data_dir=${prefix}/share in configure.ac after the root dir check allows me to put the resources where I want them, true or false? |
| 17:52.14 | IriX64 | urf wait... |
| 17:52.35 | IriX64 | mc |
| 17:53.26 | IriX64 | datadir |
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| 20:25.44 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad/threads |
| 20:25.56 | IriX64 | note the thread count :) |
| 20:29.52 | clock_ | Space Not Available This space is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. To find other spaces that interest you, go to Windows Live Spaces. |
| 20:30.05 | IriX64 | you jest... |
| 20:30.22 | IriX64 | i'm there |
| 20:30.41 | clock_ | Trying again. The same. |
| 20:31.02 | IriX64 | shrug (microsoft) |
| 20:31.12 | IriX64 | should put up an http server |
| 20:31.21 | IriX64 | but i have a dynamic ip |
| 20:31.38 | IriX64 | no cracks about dydns please :) |
| 20:33.53 | IriX64 | try it now |
| 20:34.06 | clock_ | the same |
| 20:34.50 | IriX64 | try www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad |
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| 20:37.01 | IriX64 | did it load? |
| 20:42.40 | docelic_ | IriX64: yes |
| 20:43.06 | docelic_ | IriX64: what's that. brlcad on irix ? |
| 20:51.58 | *** join/#brlcad shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) | |
| 20:51.58 | *** part/#brlcad shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) | |
| 20:55.11 | IriX64 | taskmgr on irix? :) |
| 20:58.25 | poolio | Looks like blrcad on windows =( |
| 21:08.55 | IriX64 | that one is brlcad "on" windows |
| 21:09.01 | IriX64 | same url |
| 21:11.25 | IriX64 | 32768 global photons, 1024 irradiance rays... how long will i be waiting? |
| 21:21.04 | poolio | I have no clue what you're talking about, but I'm going to go with a magnitude of hours? |
| 23:33.51 | poolio | brlcad: I'm having trouble compiling brlcad. misc/Makefile.in is not being created |
| 23:37.21 | IriX64 | poolio, good guess , it's still not ready |
| 23:38.08 | IriX64 | poolio starting from ./autogen.sh ? |
| 23:38.14 | IriX64 | makes it here |
| 23:38.50 | brlcad | poolio: cvs head is a bit unstable at the moment |
| 23:39.00 | brlcad | we're cleaning some things up for a release |
| 23:39.33 | brlcad | though misc/Makefile.in does indeed imply that something went wrong during autogen.sh |
| 23:39.46 | brlcad | run ./autogen.sh --verbose |
| 23:40.07 | IriX64 | brlcad: are you saying the source(7.8.4) tarball is at the moment more stable than cvs head? |
| 23:42.11 | brlcad | depends on what you're doing, but from a simple compilation standpoint -- perhaps |
| 23:42.52 | brlcad | head is allowed to change you know, usually changes daily |
| 23:43.15 | brlcad | there will be a STABLE branch created after this next release so HEAD can be more fluid too |
| 23:43.46 | poolio | brlcad: I did, nothing wrong there |
| 23:47.05 | brlcad | somehow I fail to believe that :) |
| 23:47.13 | brlcad | if there really is no .in file |
| 23:47.36 | brlcad | that means something in automake failed to produce the file |
| 23:48.15 | brlcad | s/in automake failed/caused automake to fail/ |
| 23:49.38 | poolio | Well there are warnings from lib3ds, but no error messages or things that would indicate a failure of creation |
| 23:50.06 | brlcad | can you pastebin the output? |
| 23:50.39 | poolio | Yeah, hold on. |
| 23:52.22 | poolio | brlcad: aha! My eyes decieve me. src/external/Makefile.am:3: BUILD_CUBIT does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL |
| 23:52.39 | brlcad | aha |
| 23:53.01 | brlcad | yes, just a recent mod -- there's an AM_CONDITIONAL missing in configure.ac |
| 23:54.50 | poolio | brlcad: what's the test supposed to be for BUILD_CUBIT? |
| 23:55.41 | brlcad | near the bottom.. there's a bunch of AM_CONDITIONALS |
| 23:55.50 | brlcad | can just add a line for BUILD_CUBIT that is false |
| 23:56.07 | poolio | ah alright |
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| 23:57.46 | *** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669873.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:03.26 | poolio | Ah, other errors I don't feel like fixing, I'll try out stable =) |
| 00:03.54 | brlcad | there isn't a stable branch yet .. that will be *after* this next release |
| 00:04.05 | brlcad | you can check out the last release sources, though |
| 00:04.17 | brlcad | -r rel-7-8-4 |
| 00:06.04 | poolio | brlcad: I assumed previous releases were stable but heh...not always so |
| 00:06.55 | brlcad | depends on the platform and your system configuration as to whether it'll build |
| 00:07.48 | brlcad | though "stability-wise" in a traditional sense -- even CVS head is stable -- just doesn't happen to compile right this second because of a commit yesterday that hasn't been patched |
| 00:07.59 | poolio | ah alright. |
| 00:08.02 | brlcad | stability doesn't usually refer to compilation, my misnomer |
| 00:08.31 | poolio | Ah really? What is your definition of stable? |
| 00:08.39 | poolio | When it does run it is stable? |
| 00:11.44 | brlcad | it can refer to compilation |
| 00:11.48 | brlcad | just not "usually" |
| 00:12.10 | brlcad | usually imho, it refers to the run-time stability of an application or application suite |
| 00:12.21 | brlcad | known bugs notwithstanding |
| 00:12.36 | poolio | Alright. I would agree with that, just as an open source software user I find that when something won't even compile to me, it has a stability of nil. |
| 00:19.55 | poolio | brlcad: Haha. Automake 1.10 isn't new enough...needs automake 1.6 or above... silly minor numbers. |
| 00:21.07 | brlcad | poolio: ah, that is fixed |
| 00:21.14 | brlcad | use the autogen.sh from head |
| 00:21.40 | poolio | Ok. But still a funny problem IMO |
| 00:22.10 | brlcad | yep -- it ends up parsing 1.10 as 1.1.0 |
| 00:23.05 | poolio | Well regardless, the number 1.10 is less than 1.6 so it's just doing it's job. |
| 00:23.24 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:24.00 | poolio | Sounds more like an error in automake's minor numbering scheme than an error in the parsing of those numbers |
| 00:26.37 | brlcad | you'd think, except it's actually just two separate numbers, not one floating point number |
| 00:26.48 | brlcad | the decimal is merely a conventional delimiter |
| 00:27.55 | poolio | Ah revision numbers, where math operators are abused. |
| 00:28.40 | Maloeran | 50k lines of Fortran written by an engineer, not a programmer, over 15 years. It's nice in its own very special way |
| 00:30.38 | IriX64 | could've been cobol :) |
| 00:31.13 | poolio | could've been lisp. ;) |
| 00:32.34 | Maloeran | Hey! Don't you dare say a thing against Lisp :) |
| 00:33.09 | IriX64 | picture me picturing that ;) |
| 00:34.13 | ``Erik | cobol is a language intended to be pragmatic that ended up being completely academic. |
| 00:34.25 | ``Erik | lisp is a langauge intended to be completely academic that ended up pragmatic. |
| 00:35.03 | IriX64 | #pragma ``Erik ~:) |
| 00:36.37 | ``Erik | S-expressions were intended to be the intermediate form... the 'human' version of lisp was supposed to be something called m-expressions |
| 00:36.47 | ``Erik | but, uh, humans like s-expressions... a lot... |
| 00:37.12 | ``Erik | like asm, just as low level and super-powerful, yet obscenely wieldable |
| 00:37.25 | ``Erik | ... n/m that the h/w of the day was very different *cough* |
| 00:37.50 | Maloeran | Ah I see, hardware which matched Lisp constructs directly |
| 00:39.06 | ``Erik | every low level lisp 1.5 operation maps to exactly one opcode which takes exactly one cycle on an ibm 709 |
| 00:39.26 | ``Erik | no low level lisp 1.5 operation takes more than 2 clocks on a pdp11 |
| 00:39.28 | ``Erik | ... |
| 00:40.03 | ``Erik | in weenie terminology, um, car is adh, cdr is adl, ... |
| 00:41.04 | ``Erik | C hw is the pdp11, the x86 is a grossly bad match :/ |
| 00:42.38 | Maloeran | Itanium hardware would have been really sweet for a C language with many specific extensions |
| 00:44.55 | poolio | You guys are big into optimization, eh? |
| 00:45.26 | Maloeran | I think I am, yes, I'm very fond of assembly too |
| 00:46.04 | Maloeran | Erik prefers to write Brainfuck compilers with optimisation though :) |
| 00:54.59 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565522.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:10.29 | ``Erik | brainfuck is the minimal turing complete language with both input and output notions added |
| 01:10.52 | ``Erik | seriously, it is the ULTIMATE in 'pragmatic' assembly languages |
| 01:11.11 | ``Erik | everything you do to modify it is a machine adaptation |
| 01:13.37 | ``Erik | my bf compiler/interpreter/etc exploration is very much a deep computer science exploration, my friend :) |
| 01:14.41 | ``Erik | <-- can't help but to look as various archs as turing lanaguage plus optimizitions... |
| 01:15.07 | ``Erik | <-- cant help to ponder what optimizations help among all archs |
| 01:15.46 | ``Erik | obviously, ay nearest neighbor algorithm is better expressed as a graph than a tree in turing lanag |
| 01:16.11 | ``Erik | ... which is why rayforce whumps adrt... fundamnetally.... |
| 01:16.44 | ``Erik | something I've been ragging about since I think 9 yrs ago |
| 01:17.36 | ``Erik | (in my youth, I very much had a notion that asm was important for fast programs... I like to imagine I've learned better) |
| 01:18.32 | IriX64 | 12737 301 777566 never mind asm :) |
| 01:19.04 | ``Erik | ten years ago, I discovered that asm was teh best language to learn and never use again. |
| 01:19.15 | ``Erik | it's very good to understand how the machine works |
| 01:19.34 | ``Erik | indeed, I took classes in understanding it to the transistor level |
| 01:19.52 | IriX64 | you have to know what the instruction that broke is supposed to do if you're going to fix it |
| 01:19.56 | ``Erik | it's GOOD to know it! but the minute you NEED it, something is horribly wrong. |
| 01:20.39 | IriX64 | problem is which asm are we going to teach our kids? |
| 01:20.59 | IriX64 | z80 m6502 8006 etc... |
| 01:21.06 | ``Erik | and the good on knowing it and when you need it... that barrier is where you should know when to decide whether it's something htat needs to be fixed at the language or the hw levle... |
| 01:21.07 | IriX64 | err 8086 |
| 01:21.15 | ``Erik | <- done 'em all |
| 01:21.20 | IriX64 | me too |
| 01:21.47 | IriX64 | can you picture a 64bit z80? |
| 01:22.09 | ``Erik | in the late 80's |
| 01:22.43 | ``Erik | ever hear of "worldnet" "the real |
| 01:22.50 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:22.56 | ``Erik | al out of the seattle area... |
| 01:22.59 | IriX64 | fidonet mostly ``Erik |
| 01:23.24 | ``Erik | fido was intarweb, not bbs |
| 01:23.24 | IriX64 | my address 1:222/10.0 |
| 02:11.33 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 02:11.33 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 02:21.42 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/mapping/ |
| 02:48.40 | IriX64 | brlcad: what advantage would i gain working with cvs versus just waiting for the release? |
| 02:51.07 | Twingy | you have know idea how global illumination works do you |
| 02:51.11 | Twingy | *no |
| 02:51.27 | IriX64 | man I didn't write it |
| 02:51.37 | Twingy | I'm talking in general |
| 02:51.58 | IriX64 | quite an accurate statement, but im willing to learn, teach me |
| 02:52.08 | Twingy | do you understand that the whole point of global illumination is to create an environment for light to bounce around in |
| 02:52.16 | IriX64 | yes |
| 02:52.38 | IriX64 | how many photons should i use? |
| 02:52.44 | Twingy | then you understand that placing an object in the vacuum of space and rendering it with global illumination is a pointless endeavor? |
| 02:52.58 | IriX64 | why i got a picture |
| 02:53.04 | Twingy | since there is nothing for the light to bounce around and deposit on |
| 02:53.17 | IriX64 | and what pray tell is havoc? |
| 02:53.30 | IriX64 | its a raze thing |
| 02:53.38 | Twingy | it's a poor rendering because all of your photons went off into space |
| 02:54.02 | IriX64 | im willing to bet that copter looks like that in real life |
| 02:54.29 | Twingy | I disagree, I wrote photon mapping code in brl-cad, I wrote path tracing code in adrt, I know how it works |
| 02:54.49 | Twingy | you should place it in a box or don't use it |
| 02:54.51 | Twingy | it's pointless |
| 02:55.03 | IriX64 | so elucidate like i said im genuially interested in learning how to use it properly |
| 02:55.08 | IriX64 | err ok |
| 02:55.13 | Twingy | it's like computing 2+2 a million times just to get the answer to 2+2 |
| 02:55.22 | Twingy | it's pointless |
| 02:55.44 | Twingy | I just told you, there needs to be an environment for light to bounce off of |
| 02:55.45 | IriX64 | no twingy if what your saying is true i would get no picture |
| 02:55.52 | Twingy | model an aircraft hangar |
| 02:55.59 | Twingy | wrong |
| 02:56.08 | Twingy | 95% of your photons are going off into space |
| 02:56.23 | Twingy | and photon mapping relies on phong shading as the direct lighting term |
| 02:56.31 | IriX64 | so all im winding up with is the irradiance rays that struck? |
| 02:56.50 | Twingy | what you are seeing is the phong shading term of the BRDF (bidirectional reflectance distribution function) equation |
| 02:57.06 | Twingy | what you are doing is getting a broken BRDF equation with partial phong shading |
| 02:57.28 | Twingy | what you are seeing is 95% phong shading |
| 02:57.39 | IriX64 | is there anything in the geometry examples that would do a fair test? |
| 02:57.52 | Twingy | I am only going to repeat myself one more time |
| 02:57.58 | Twingy | listen very carefully |
| 02:58.06 | Twingy | you need an environment for light to bounce off of |
| 02:58.18 | Twingy | do you know what I mean by environment? |
| 02:58.23 | Twingy | trees |
| 02:58.24 | Twingy | walls |
| 02:58.26 | Twingy | buildings |
| 02:58.28 | Twingy | tables |
| 02:58.30 | Twingy | desks |
| 02:58.50 | Twingy | those are things light can bounce off of |
| 02:58.55 | Twingy | and ultimately deposit on |
| 02:59.04 | IriX64 | and havoc doesn't fit? |
| 02:59.14 | Twingy | havoc is fine, it's not in an environment |
| 02:59.22 | Twingy | it's in space! |
| 02:59.29 | Twingy | light doesn't bounce off of space! |
| 02:59.55 | Twingy | put it in a box if you are lazy! |
| 03:00.03 | Twingy | if you have the time model an aircraft hangar |
| 03:00.07 | Twingy | make sure it is enclosed |
| 03:00.26 | Twingy | get it? |
| 03:00.31 | IriX64 | man thats beyond my meager talents, im not a serious cadder |
| 03:00.49 | Twingy | then stop using photon mapping :) |
| 03:00.52 | Twingy | it's goofy! |
| 03:01.01 | Twingy | you can't create an arb8? |
| 03:01.05 | IriX64 | why its so much fun to wait an hour or two :) |
| 03:01.20 | IriX64 | all i created was a pipe |
| 03:01.21 | Twingy | if you spent 3 seconds and made an arb8 around the havoc it'll look 100x better |
| 03:01.39 | IriX64 | ill try |
| 03:01.39 | Twingy | good! |
| 03:01.55 | Twingy | google for this stuff that way you won't be so clueless! |
| 03:02.04 | Twingy | you're just being lazy |
| 03:02.06 | IriX64 | hehe thanks |
| 03:02.11 | Twingy | not a matter of being smart |
| 03:03.23 | IriX64 | heh giver man giver |
| 03:22.15 | IriX64 | allright how do i get havoc *inside this arb8 ive created? |
| 03:26.59 | deltazap | expand the arb8 around the havoc |
| 03:27.24 | IriX64 | can you walk me through it? |
| 03:27.48 | IriX64 | assume i haven't even taken the tutorial |
| 03:28.04 | deltazap | have you drawn the havoc to the screen |
| 03:28.08 | IriX64 | yes |
| 03:28.16 | IriX64 | and then created arb8 |
| 03:28.54 | deltazap | and if you go to edit, you get a listing of items that you can modify on the arb8 |
| 03:29.06 | IriX64 | faces edges etc? |
| 03:29.10 | deltazap | yes |
| 03:29.47 | deltazap | alright, then go and select Scale |
| 03:30.11 | IriX64 | right |
| 03:30.32 | deltazap | scale the arb so that its larger than the havoc |
| 03:30.43 | IriX64 | already is |
| 03:31.12 | deltazap | alright, check from the front and left views to make sure that the havoc is inside the arb |
| 03:31.56 | IriX64 | its not |
| 03:32.43 | IriX64 | now it is |
| 03:35.12 | deltazap | alright, there you go |
| 03:35.20 | IriX64 | ty |
| 03:35.27 | deltazap | now from there, i have no clue how to get photon mapping working :P |
| 03:35.49 | IriX64 | takes a flashlight :) |
| 03:40.08 | IriX64 | when i want to move a face i usually make a fist :) |
| 03:43.27 | IriX64 | perl sucks cpu man |
| 03:56.25 | IriX64 | music to draw by :) |
| 03:59.54 | IriX64 | deltazap, you're a serious user of brlcad aren't you? |
| 04:00.13 | IriX64 | i'm just a novice as you've seen |
| 04:00.19 | deltazap | i started learning last week |
| 04:00.20 | deltazap | :P |
| 04:00.44 | IriX64 | well you're several lessons ahead of me |
| 04:02.05 | IriX64 | did you use the html docs or the man pages? |
| 04:02.23 | deltazap | the pdfs made from the html |
| 04:02.27 | IriX64 | meaning which way is easier to learn from? |
| 04:02.40 | IriX64 | pdf ah. |
| 04:06.03 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/mzNEqm58.html |
| 04:06.09 | IriX64 | my config summary |
| 04:08.28 | IriX64 | man the photons can't get in the box, all i get is a black screen |
| 04:09.54 | IriX64 | but it went through the motions |
| 04:12.44 | deltazap | wooo 3 fps |
| 04:14.01 | IriX64 | .5 fps here :) |
| 04:14.01 | IriX64 | but im doing a compile |
| 04:14.31 | IriX64 | fps=feet/per/stroke? |
| 04:18.10 | deltazap | hmm? |
| 04:20.38 | Twingy | IriX64, you have to create a light source |
| 04:20.55 | IriX64 | you said an arb8 |
| 04:21.04 | Twingy | IN ADDITION TO THE ARB8 |
| 04:21.19 | Twingy | IriX64, do you have any common sense? |
| 04:21.28 | IriX64 | you didn't tell me that i told you i haven't even taken the tutorial yet |
| 04:21.44 | Twingy | forget about the tutorial |
| 04:21.46 | Twingy | use your logic boy! |
| 04:21.54 | Twingy | if you stand in a room |
| 04:21.57 | Twingy | and there is no light bulb |
| 04:22.01 | IriX64 | you need light yes |
| 04:22.05 | Twingy | it's going to be pitch black! |
| 04:22.16 | Twingy | this isn't rocket science |
| 04:22.18 | IriX64 | ... but how the farkle do i tell brlcad this point is a light bulb? |
| 04:22.31 | Twingy | make another arb8 or a sphere or whatever |
| 04:22.37 | Twingy | and go into the material editor |
| 04:22.41 | Twingy | and tag it as a light |
| 04:22.44 | IriX64 | the say what? |
| 04:22.51 | Twingy | make another object |
| 04:22.57 | Twingy | and go into the material settings |
| 04:23.06 | Twingy | and set the shader to light source |
| 04:23.11 | Twingy | sheesis |
| 04:23.19 | IriX64 | look i dont even know where the material setting is |
| 04:23.29 | Twingy | IriX64, seriously dude, I knew how to do this after 6 hours of blindly poking at brl-cad |
| 04:23.41 | Twingy | you need to take a serious time out and rtfm |
| 04:23.51 | IriX64 | i have been blindly poking for less than 5 minutes.... have a heart |
| 04:24.20 | Twingy | I have 0 tolerance for the lazy |
| 04:24.33 | IriX64 | bother |
| 04:25.47 | IriX64 | nice box :) err wait... |
| 04:26.20 | IriX64 | light model full gives me a square box |
| 04:26.45 | deltazap | you'll need to move the camera into the box |
| 04:26.57 | IriX64 | and the light |
| 04:29.29 | IriX64 | ahh reject ejects the bloody arb8 |
| 04:30.29 | IriX64 | now we'll map it my way :) |
| 04:32.20 | IriX64 | darn i was wrong |
| 04:35.26 | IriX64 | ill just remove it from the display |
| 04:35.47 | IriX64 | and take a shot |
| 04:54.31 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/mHDWsq44.html |
| 04:54.34 | IriX64 | status |
| 06:07.07 | Maloeran | Okay, unsurprisingly, I really don't like Fortran |
| 06:16.53 | Maloeran | And it requires some obscure non-existing dfwin.mod thing to compile |
| 07:49.40 | brlcad | by the way, for anyone that was following Twingy's patient advice.. that summary was "put the object into a box and render from inside", which amounts to making a big arb8 and then subtracting another slightly smaller arb8 or using the inside command to hollow it out, creating a light inside the box (make an object, make a region, set region to light), render in awe with his photon mapping lighting model |
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| 13:00.09 | deltazap | brlcad: i was going to mention that you had to hollow out the box |
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| 13:39.40 | deltazap | hehe, my box came out to be nice and green from the reflection |
| 13:40.05 | deltazap | is there any way to zoom into a section without zooming in too far and cutting off portions of the model? |
| 14:50.20 | ``Erik | It's obvious that GNU/Linux is a woman. |
| 14:50.20 | ``Erik | She's high maintenance, expects everything to be given to her for free, and no matter what goes wrong... it's your fault. |
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| 15:43.01 | louipc | ``Erik: depends on what distro you choose |
| 15:44.06 | louipc | but yeah it usually is your fault... especially if you're a noob |
| 15:44.53 | louipc | which I'd rather have than it being the app's or OS's fault as I experienced in Windows... because it's fixable |
| 15:47.14 | ``Erik | heh, sometimes you can fix t he apps' or os's fault... not windows, but... *shrug* |
| 15:47.25 | ``Erik | <-- likes fbsd most, macs are nice desktop os's |
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| 16:23.11 | louipc | maybe a bit. someone recommended setting up a separate box if you want to use a lot of drives, especially if they're scsi |
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| 16:35.49 | zord | ello |
| 16:40.56 | zord | hi |
| 16:41.57 | brlcad | hi |
| 16:42.47 | zord | help... |
| 16:42.52 | zord | needed |
| 16:43.06 | zord | first time in irc web |
| 16:43.33 | zord | how to change channel |
| 16:43.36 | zord | ? |
| 16:44.40 | brlcad | well, you joined an irc web client dedicated to BRL-CAD |
| 16:44.47 | brlcad | so you get to BRL-CAD channels |
| 16:45.06 | brlcad | otherwise it's no different than any other irc client for changing channels |
| 16:45.43 | zord | I should go tu this channel:#kubuntu |
| 16:45.54 | zord | how to? |
| 16:45.58 | brlcad | I suggest getting a real irc client regardless -- the web interface isn't meant as a replacement |
| 16:46.12 | zord | IM on linux |
| 16:46.15 | brlcad | so? |
| 16:46.22 | zord | and I have kopete |
| 16:46.31 | brlcad | try irssi or xchat |
| 16:46.34 | zord | but I dont have an account |
| 16:46.50 | zord | where to register |
| 16:47.07 | Maloeran | You don't need an account, just launch xchat and connect to irc.freenode.org |
| 16:47.32 | zord | and with kopete? |
| 16:47.43 | Maloeran | The command : /server irc.freenode.org should work with about any IRC client |
| 16:47.56 | Maloeran | Then /join #channelNameHere to join a specific channel |
| 16:49.46 | zord | ok thanks |
| 16:49.48 | brlcad | zord, kopete is a horrible irc client -- you should get something better (like irssi, xchat, bitchx, etc) |
| 16:50.09 | Maloeran | You'll probably find xchat easier to use than the others |
| 16:50.12 | brlcad | probably worse than the horrible web interface that you're using now |
| 16:50.38 | zord | I'll try it out.. |
| 16:50.42 | zord | thanks |
| 17:01.03 | ``Erik | and I thought it was irc.freenode.net :D |
| 17:06.35 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:09.16 | IriX64 | ok twingy, i'm trying it with the provided sun illumination :) |
| 17:12.03 | ``Erik | irix: maybe you should read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_mapping a couple dozen times, then read the external links a few dozen times... |
| 17:12.06 | ``Erik | :) |
| 17:12.19 | ``Erik | y'know... until you "get it",t hen a few times more |
| 17:12.42 | IriX64 | got it |
| 17:13.28 | IriX64 | serious question though, is there a way to remove an object from the database once created? |
| 17:13.59 | brlcad | kill objectname |
| 17:14.04 | IriX64 | ty |
| 17:14.28 | IriX64 | gone thanks |
| 17:14.30 | brlcad | there is no undo |
| 17:14.39 | IriX64 | figured that |
| 17:15.41 | ``Erik | yet |
| 17:16.06 | IriX64 | heh who's job, and i'm not volunteering :) |
| 17:16.14 | ``Erik | I will never eat krispy kreme again. Ever. http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=1853 |
| 17:16.26 | louipc | I think autocad might have one of the most extensive undo capabilities because it's so touchy |
| 17:17.20 | IriX64 | blargh on krispy kreme :) |
| 17:17.38 | ``Erik | did you, uh, look at the url, irix? |
| 17:17.56 | IriX64 | yeah i read it i agree ill never eat them |
| 17:18.25 | louipc | fake |
| 17:18.42 | IriX64 | i know did you you read it close? |
| 17:19.09 | louipc | hah sony |
| 17:21.36 | IriX64 | arb = a rectangular box? |
| 17:25.45 | IriX64 | wonder if the network drawing would load, mental note get a copy from the guy who maintains it |
| 17:35.33 | IriX64 | for what its worth http://www.pastebin.ca/409390 |
| 17:46.25 | IriX64 | my system at work, btw slap me if i'm being annoying http://www.pastebin.ca/409402 |
| 17:51.45 | *** join/#brlcad tedcx (n=root@71.237.138.185) | |
| 17:53.29 | tedcx | Making all in adrt; Making all in libtie; kdtree.c: In function 'tie_kdtree_cache_load':;kdtree.c:811: warning: dereferencing 'void *' pointer;kdtree.c:811: error: wrong type argument to unary exclamation mark;make[3]: *** [kdtree.lo] Error 1;make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1; make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1; make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 17:54.18 | tedcx | I'm getting the error above when making brlcad on a 64 bit SuSE Linux box OpebSuSE 10.2 |
| 18:01.05 | brlcad | tedcx: add --disable-adrt to the configure line |
| 18:01.30 | brlcad | it's not meant to be prevalently enabled at the moment -- it hasn't been fully integrated into the build |
| 18:02.14 | tedcx | thanks |
| 18:28.07 | brlcad | np |
| 18:44.11 | tedcx | export ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/share/tcl/itcl3.3 doesn't seem to let mged find a usable init.tcl |
| 18:50.21 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) | |
| 19:08.02 | brlcad | tedcx: are you working off of cvs head perchance? |
| 19:08.08 | brlcad | i'm in the middle of something on head |
| 19:13.50 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-15.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:41.11 | Twingy | sweet potato chips are tastey |
| 19:41.30 | IriX64 | and you know this how ? :) |
| 19:51.23 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:58.36 | IriX64 | nice program tho :) |
| 19:59.09 | IriX64 | wincvs that is |
| 20:16.11 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 20:48.10 | *** join/#brlcad cad45 (n=411e1320@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 22:14.16 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:27.06 | IriX64 | 12fps on wavefront, nice |
| 22:31.23 | IriX64 | to be fair there's a compile going on tho |
| 22:35.40 | IriX64 | how many people with commit access to the brlcad source tree brlcad? |
| 22:36.41 | IriX64 | perhaps have all members check a new commit no matter who commited it, sometimes different people see different things |
| 22:37.21 | IriX64 | or the buddy system if you prefer |
| 22:45.50 | IriX64 | id paste it but ... |
| 22:46.58 | IriX64 | rather proud of my little info thingy :) |
| 22:55.41 | brlcad | IriX64: see the members list on the sf project page |
| 22:56.30 | IriX64 | ty |
| 22:56.46 | brlcad | commits are already sent to a commits mailing list so developers can review the activity of others, as well as relayed into here, as well as archived in several locations |
| 22:57.11 | IriX64 | but the actual code? |
| 22:57.29 | IriX64 | i know it would double your workload but... |
| 22:57.37 | IriX64 | may come in handy |
| 22:57.56 | brlcad | what problem would this solve? |
| 22:58.11 | brlcad | this is the actual code, all changes |
| 22:59.11 | IriX64 | not a problem, but just trying to help stop bugs from getting through |
| 22:59.20 | poolio | hey brlcad, can I email you a resume? |
| 22:59.26 | IriX64 | if you already do it then forget what i said |
| 22:59.53 | brlcad | IriX64: it's basically already done -- the only real help you could probably provide would be to actually investigate and fix bugs |
| 23:00.06 | brlcad | or run code analysis tools |
| 23:00.11 | brlcad | or security analysis tools |
| 23:00.13 | brlcad | etc |
| 23:00.38 | brlcad | poolio: sure |
| 23:00.54 | IriX64 | hey i wasn't offering, just suggesiting |
| 23:01.00 | IriX64 | suggesting too |
| 23:01.56 | brlcad | which unfortunately frankly isn't helpful even if your intentions are pure and you're just trying to help |
| 23:02.05 | brlcad | we have the ideas, the ideas list is massive |
| 23:02.23 | brlcad | productive contributions and activity |
| 23:02.32 | brlcad | that's what is needed :) |
| 23:05.02 | brlcad | IriX64: check over the TODO file doc/IDEAS files -- if there are items missing you can think of, let me know and I'll add them |
| 23:12.34 | IriX64 | i will brlcad, i will |
| 23:45.58 | ``Erik | vim doc/IDEAS |
| 23:46.21 | ``Erik | Go* ignore irix64^[ZZ |
| 23:46.33 | ``Erik | cvs -z3 commit -m 'important todo' doc/IDEAS |
| 23:46.34 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 23:49.29 | IriX64 | ;) already did that |
| 23:58.08 | IriX64 | wincvs is not for the faint of heart which reminds me i must uninstall it |
| 00:06.46 | ``Erik | erm, ... |
| 00:07.09 | IriX64 | you have code analysis tools i could run? |
| 00:07.47 | IriX64 | im not good at security, but i'll run your analyzers for you no matter how long they take to complete |
| 00:08.06 | Maloeran | Erik, did you see me mentionning that rtcmp doesn't compile here? |
| 00:09.00 | ``Erik | ummmm, I think so, uh, something aboput the nmg silent flag that requires a newer BRL-CAD than you have? |
| 00:09.21 | Maloeran | Oh. I see, okay |
| 00:09.45 | ``Erik | you can comment that line out, it just makes things a tiny bit quieter |
| 00:10.35 | Maloeran | tri.c:234: error: too few arguments to function 'bu_realloc tri.c:277: error: 'nmg_bool_eval_silent' undeclared |
| 00:15.31 | ``Erik | hm, I'll fix the realloc thing tomorrow... but it SHOULD just be a warning :/ |
| 00:16.10 | ``Erik | fixing the bu_realloc is easy, just add a message as the last arg |
| 00:22.38 | Maloeran | I really should get used to the math notation some day. After spending minutes translating "big" formulas into pseudo-code, I'm surprised by how simple the thing is in the end |
| 00:34.01 | tedcx | BRLCAD: re: can't find a usable init.tcl on execution of mged: Yes suing CVS per istructions on the website - I'll try to find a tar.gz |
| 00:34.46 | brlcad | tedcx: yes, current known issue from a commit I made a couple days ago -- working on it now |
| 00:35.22 | brlcad | you should be able to pull a cvs checkout of -r rel-7-8-4 |
| 00:35.41 | brlcad | er, cvs update -r rel-7-8-4 -dP |
| 00:35.45 | tedcx | brlcad |
| 00:37.44 | tedcx | brlcad: where is an x64 source for linux? |
| 00:38.15 | brlcad | the source is the same for all platforms |
| 00:38.50 | brlcad | if you have a checkout already, you should be able to run the above cvs command and rebuild |
| 00:40.12 | tedcx | brlcad: OK, am doing now |
| 00:40.57 | tedcx | brlcad: what configure switches should be used? |
| 00:49.45 | brlcad | hm, probably ./configure --disable-adrt --enable-optimized |
| 00:49.58 | brlcad | have to rerun autogen.sh after doing the update |
| 00:50.06 | brlcad | then configure |
| 00:50.48 | tedcx | Brlcad: ran autogen, am making now thanks |
| 01:09.21 | IriX64 | there's something to be said for not trying to have the latest and greatest *all the time:) |
| 02:07.02 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:20.10 | deltazap | man, being able to use tcl in mged is pretty awesome |
| 02:20.23 | deltazap | now if it could do ruby, we'd be onto something ;) |
| 02:22.20 | brlcad | deltazap: soon enough :) |
| 02:22.53 | deltazap | :D |
| 02:29.09 | deltazap | brlcad: is there a guide around on how to set up distributed ray tracing? |
| 02:30.13 | brlcad | deltazap: not a really good one .. the closest is probably the remrt manual page |
| 02:31.18 | brlcad | basic idea is to set up remrt with all of the usual rt parameters that you might want to use |
| 02:31.25 | brlcad | then run rtsrv on all your distributed hosts |
| 02:36.59 | deltazap | alright, i'll have to start reading up |
| 02:39.56 | deltazap | my ibook doesn't have quite enough power to do photon mapping by itself :P |
| 03:05.55 | deltazap | i know i asked this a few nights ago, but i don't know if someone responed |
| 03:06.25 | deltazap | is there a way to replace one primative for another region, for instance? |
| 03:24.38 | IriX64 | Twingy: gave it some light www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 03:25.10 | Twingy | you are stilling missing an environment IriX64 |
| 03:29.27 | IriX64 | man its in flight :P |
| 03:29.49 | deltazap | whoops, crashed mged |
| 03:46.36 | IriX64 | thought you crashed havoc for a moment :) |
| 04:01.53 | IriX64 | want to see my bbs again.... i'm darn well going to. |
| 04:02.30 | IriX64 | say is random chatter and mutterings permitted or not permitted during work hours? |
| 04:16.16 | brlcad | deltazap: combinations use named references, so if you refer to a primitive and want to replace that primitive with something else, (whether it be a region or another primivite) you can use the mvall command |
| 04:17.07 | deltazap | ah, nice :) |
| 04:17.37 | brlcad | so to replace a primitive p.s with a region c.r, you'd mvall p.s c.r then restore p.s with mv c.r p.s then kill c.r (which is a primitive) and then create whatever you want to replace it with |
| 04:18.33 | deltazap | alright |
| 04:18.45 | brlcad | not the clearest of examples, but hopefully you see -- you renamed all references to the new name, then put something new in place |
| 04:22.28 | brlcad | these are in the 'Creating Geometry' section on http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf if that thelps |
| 04:22.28 | deltazap | next odd question: is there any way to resize a region? |
| 04:22.28 | deltazap | i have that printed out here somewhere |
| 04:22.29 | brlcad | resizing is another way of saying scale |
| 04:22.29 | brlcad | found in the "S R G set glob_compat_mode 1 |
| 04:22.29 | brlcad | eek |
| 04:22.29 | brlcad | Scaling and Resizing Geometry in non-unicode form :) |
| 04:22.29 | deltazap | ok |
| 04:22.34 | brlcad | basically, you oed the object (or matrix select via gui -- same thing) -- then sca or select Scale on the menu |
| 04:22.57 | deltazap | that's what i thought, but in the matrix selection, the region wasn't listed |
| 04:23.33 | brlcad | if you want to apply the scale to the primitives themselves, you'd use the push and/or xpush commands |
| 04:24.28 | deltazap | ok |
| 04:29.27 | deltazap | last random question of the night: how well does that .g -> cubit converter and do you need testers :P |
| 04:29.36 | deltazap | *work |
| 04:33.16 | brlcad | it actually works surprisingly well .. what I'm trying to sort out, though, is how we can go about distribution |
| 05:02.45 | IriX64 | infozip rather :) |
| 05:03.26 | IriX64 | tedcx did you get yours to compile (to get back on topic) |
| 05:05.42 | IriX64 | brlcad: can i really use this cvs client to access BRL-CAD latest code? |
| 05:07.42 | brlcad | the very latest is always in cvs |
| 05:07.55 | IriX64 | whats the learning curve like? |
| 05:08.05 | brlcad | it's not incredibly different |
| 05:08.14 | brlcad | but it's current active development |
| 05:08.28 | brlcad | so even the slightest typo and something might not build |
| 05:09.02 | IriX64 | i see you use cvs till you get something building error free then you release a new source tarball? |
| 05:09.20 | brlcad | it's generally expected that you have a basic understanding of how to resolve the simple build errors and occasional build failures or run-time glitches if you work off of cvs HEAD |
| 05:09.38 | IriX64 | ill wait for the source distribution, thanks |
| 05:10.09 | IriX64 | i mean i think i can reslove build issues, but i have a slow link |
| 05:10.13 | brlcad | sort of .. the process has changed over the years and generally speaking, head is stable and we simply release when we want |
| 05:10.34 | brlcad | which is "supposed" to be once a month if everything is running smooth |
| 05:10.57 | IriX64 | supposed mean a lot of things to a lot of people :) |
| 05:11.03 | IriX64 | +s |
| 05:12.05 | IriX64 | but on the other hand i downloaded the thing, maybe ill play with it whats the address or is it on sourceforge? |
| 05:13.27 | brlcad | it's all on sourceforge, including detailed instructions |
| 05:13.41 | brlcad | just follow the CVS link on the sf project page |
| 05:16.12 | IriX64 | ty |
| 05:22.49 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/bookmarks.html: add an initial bookmarks file in NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1 html doctype format. slews of links missing, but stub initial sections for news, distribution, documentation, source analysis, and external linkages. |
| 05:23.39 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/Makefile.am: install the bookmarks.html file |
| 05:28.56 | brlcad | if you had a cvs checkout -- those commits are actually "live" -- you could do a cvs update on your source tree and get the modification immediately no matter what it is |
| 05:30.25 | IriX64 | I see, i'm skimming documentation here but see no way to connect to sourceforge, or at least i haven't found it yet. |
| 05:37.21 | IriX64 | what is the project name to enter into this thing BRL-CAD? |
| 05:42.18 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-15.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 06:06.14 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 06:08.21 | IriX64 | DogStar running |
| 07:34.04 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 11:23.54 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54877948.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
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| 12:40.43 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 13:57.22 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:40.26 | deltazap | hmm, trying to figure out why my photon mapping looks blown out in the render i did over night |
| 16:08.56 | brlcad | light might be too bright |
| 16:09.25 | brlcad | have to be cautious towards the number of photons being used and the lumens of the light in the scene |
| 16:15.54 | clock_ | brlcad: if I want caustics, do I have to use photon mapping? |
| 16:17.05 | brlcad | clock_: yes |
| 16:17.14 | brlcad | or some other global illumination render |
| 16:17.57 | clock_ | brlcad: and in BRL-CAD that means always photon mapping? |
| 16:18.59 | clock_ | brlcad: how can I render with photon mapping? With rt? Or other command? |
| 16:19.07 | clock_ | I didn't find photon mapping in rt --help |
| 16:19.57 | brlcad | clock_: no, it means photon mapping or converting the model to adrt and rendering it with rise |
| 16:20.18 | brlcad | clock_: it's easier to select photon mapping from the raytrace control panel in the gui |
| 16:20.19 | clock_ | is rise part of BRL-CAD? |
| 16:20.21 | brlcad | there are a lot of options |
| 16:20.32 | clock_ | brlcad: I want for automated processing |
| 16:20.37 | brlcad | RISE is a part of ADRT, which is included with BRL-CAD (but not compiled by default yet) |
| 16:21.04 | clock_ | man -a rt rt - AIMS Lab Radiotrack FM radio device |
| 16:21.13 | brlcad | clock_: I mean use the gui to test/set the options .. then you can review what the command-line parameters are for automation afterwards |
| 16:21.47 | brlcad | the command line params are displayed to the mged console |
| 16:41.19 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 16:55.06 | deltazap | you just have to catch them quickly ;) |
| 17:34.13 | tedcx | brlcad: cvs update -are rel-7-8-4 -dP seems to compile, benchmark,test and run. Thanks for the help. |
| 18:20.41 | brlcad | tedcx: glad to hear it |
| 18:41.13 | ``Erik | Maloeran |
| 18:54.15 | deltazap | woo woo, finished volume II tutorial |
| 18:56.27 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 18:56.59 | brlcad | sweet |
| 19:02.38 | IriX64 | sweet if you zoom out the drawing, the model is painted much faster |
| 19:06.02 | ``Erik | um, I'm going to guess that the speedup is inversely proportional to the number of pixels being drawn? O.o cuz, um, that is kinda... y'know, expected :) |
| 19:06.30 | IriX64 | who put that beauty in the code :) |
| 19:07.37 | IriX64 | ``Erik people think my os is a toy.... I point to the threads picture... lets see yours do that. |
| 19:07.45 | ``Erik | what threads picture? |
| 19:08.05 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 19:09.47 | ``Erik | what, run an emulator? |
| 19:10.05 | IriX64 | start 100000 threads |
| 19:10.09 | ``Erik | um |
| 19:10.11 | ``Erik | I do it all the time? |
| 19:10.13 | IriX64 | err 10000 |
| 19:10.26 | IriX64 | on windows? |
| 19:10.34 | ``Erik | no, fbsd and solaris are where I've really tanked up threads |
| 19:10.51 | ``Erik | linux sucked back in the day because it got sputtery around 16k threads on my 120mhz cyrix |
| 19:10.57 | IriX64 | me too with os/2 but os/2 has a 4095 uppewr limit |
| 19:10.58 | ``Erik | when fbsd could keep grinding up to 100k |
| 19:11.03 | ``Erik | solaris got obscene |
| 19:11.08 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:11.17 | IriX64 | define obscene |
| 19:11.54 | IriX64 | how do you spawn a thread in ansi c |
| 19:11.54 | ``Erik | thousands and thousands of processes, each with thousands and thousands of threads, and the machine was still responsive? |
| 19:11.57 | IriX64 | yes |
| 19:12.09 | IriX64 | they obeyed the priorities assigned |
| 19:12.16 | ``Erik | ansi C has no notion of threads, but the POSIX library for doing them is called pthreads |
| 19:12.46 | IriX64 | so if you're going to code to ansi spawn and exec are your only options? |
| 19:12.56 | ``Erik | spawn? |
| 19:13.02 | IriX64 | spawnv |
| 19:13.13 | IriX64 | much like exec |
| 19:13.13 | ``Erik | exec replaces the running process, and is not ansi, it's POSIX |
| 19:13.27 | ``Erik | you're probably thinking of fork(), which is also not ansi, it's posix |
| 19:13.35 | IriX64 | wait now ansi supports exec |
| 19:13.45 | ``Erik | ansi C has no notion of processes, threads, etc... those are library or kernel supplied |
| 19:14.15 | IriX64 | my reference says exec is supported shall i pastebin it |
| 19:15.22 | ``Erik | exec* is an os facility, not a C lang facility, or even a C stdlib facility |
| 19:15.52 | ``Erik | http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/webmonkeys/book/c_guide/ <-- that is ansi C. |
| 19:16.48 | IriX64 | my mistake, wrong os mea culpa |
| 19:16.57 | ``Erik | (are ya thinking of system() ?) |
| 19:17.05 | IriX64 | maybe |
| 19:17.46 | IriX64 | ahhh a dos function, sorry ``Erik |
| 19:18.01 | IriX64 | any and body else who beleived me :) |
| 19:18.15 | IriX64 | err anybody |
| 19:18.21 | Maloeran | You can't do multiple threads or processes with ANSI C |
| 19:18.24 | ``Erik | posix has a whole family of exec* functions, like execl, execle, execlp, execvp, .. |
| 19:18.52 | IriX64 | windows supports _beginthread |
| 19:18.52 | ``Erik | mal, I'm putting a very big ugly present in cvs for you |
| 19:19.19 | ``Erik | windows also supports pthreads, but you're on your own for function prototypes there *cough* |
| 19:19.32 | IriX64 | process.h? |
| 19:19.42 | Maloeran | Erik, a coherent ray bundle benchmark? :) |
| 19:19.58 | ``Erik | no, a big endian cache file :) |
| 19:20.22 | Maloeran | All right, thanks |
| 19:21.18 | ``Erik | 24m, so it'll take a bit to upload |
| 19:22.16 | Maloeran | Which model? You could have picked a light one |
| 19:23.23 | ``Erik | trucks |
| 19:23.35 | IriX64 | nice reference page ``Erik thankyou, added to my favs list. |
| 19:24.05 | ``Erik | irix: it was a quick google... |
| 19:24.22 | IriX64 | ill have to learn how to do google eyes :) |
| 19:24.25 | ``Erik | mebbe I should adone city, heh :) |
| 19:25.08 | ``Erik | irix: with your pics, the black helicoptor images are photon mapped? |
| 19:25.22 | IriX64 | yes with no light source |
| 19:25.31 | IriX64 | moonlight :P |
| 19:25.37 | ``Erik | well, of course there was a light source, there was just nothing to contain the photons |
| 19:26.04 | IriX64 | i meant no sun |
| 19:26.20 | ``Erik | you should carve a hollow box and put the mi28 on the floor so we can see the pretty soft shadows |
| 19:26.56 | IriX64 | im not a serious brlcadder ``erik that sounds too much like work :) |
| 19:27.05 | IriX64 | ``Erik too |
| 19:27.51 | ``Erik | um, make two boxes, one slightly bigger than the other... then type something like "c box.r box1.s - box2.s" |
| 19:28.08 | ``Erik | then get the light source, helicoptor and camera all in the box and render it |
| 19:28.11 | IriX64 | just a sec let me bring it up well try |
| 19:31.11 | IriX64 | ok extraced the sun and then havoc pressed multi-pane defaults and ive got havoc on the screen now what. |
| 19:31.18 | IriX64 | extracted too |
| 19:31.33 | ``Erik | oh, and if you google for mi28 or "mi 28 havoc", you'll see lots of sies with specs, pictures, some movies, ... :) it was an impressive machine, probably a good thing the russians decided it was too expensive O:-) |
| 19:31.43 | ``Erik | make a box |
| 19:31.47 | ``Erik | then make another box |
| 19:31.50 | IriX64 | what size |
| 19:31.54 | IriX64 | sizes |
| 19:31.54 | ``Erik | big |
| 19:32.27 | ``Erik | like, bigger than the havoc |
| 19:32.32 | IriX64 | s0 and s1 created |
| 19:32.38 | IriX64 | arb 8 both |
| 19:32.43 | IriX64 | arb8 |
| 19:35.06 | IriX64 | didn't even know it was called mi28 |
| 19:36.40 | IriX64 | wife calls be right back |
| 19:45.24 | IriX64 | what do I do now ``Erik? |
| 19:48.28 | ``Erik | one arb8 is bigger than the other? |
| 19:48.34 | IriX64 | no |
| 19:48.45 | IriX64 | dont know how to do that |
| 19:49.02 | ``Erik | well, get one on the screen, sed it, click edit, click scale, and do like p 0.99 |
| 19:49.04 | ``Erik | then 'accept |
| 19:49.26 | ``Erik | y'know, this exercise is probably in the modeling tutorial |
| 19:49.57 | IriX64 | you offered |
| 19:50.04 | IriX64 | i did the p 0.99 |
| 19:50.21 | ``Erik | ok, it made one just he tiniest bit smaller, right? |
| 19:50.27 | ``Erik | like, say, 99% of the bigger ones size? |
| 19:50.28 | IriX64 | right |
| 19:50.37 | ``Erik | type "accept" and hit enter |
| 19:50.49 | IriX64 | ok |
| 19:50.51 | ``Erik | then create a combination where you subtract the smaller one from the bigger one |
| 19:51.20 | IriX64 | ``Erik this is a walk through, how is that done? |
| 19:51.39 | ``Erik | this is about to not become a walkthrough, but a point down a path :D |
| 19:51.46 | IriX64 | heh ok |
| 19:51.54 | IriX64 | which tutorial? |
| 19:52.42 | ``Erik | VolumeII-Intruduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 19:52.49 | ``Erik | lesson 5, page 37 |
| 19:52.54 | IriX64 | ty |
| 19:53.18 | IriX64 | now i need a pdf viewer sigh.... |
| 19:53.19 | ``Erik | page 39 is subtraction, you want to subtract the smaller box from the bigger one |
| 19:53.26 | ``Erik | no adobe reader? |
| 19:53.30 | IriX64 | no |
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| 20:01.50 | IriX64 | urf pkg_suckin read error now on photon mapping, ``Erik what'd you do :) |
| 20:08.28 | ``Erik | woops, my havoc is glass, heh |
| 20:10.47 | IriX64 | kill works :) |
| 20:10.59 | IriX64 | thanks to brlcad: for pointing that out |
| 20:11.38 | IriX64 | wish to see my control screen? |
| 20:12.22 | IriX64 | never mind its just like yours |
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| 23:02.04 | IriX64 | Twingy: www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad < ==== too much light :) |
| 23:02.53 | IriX64 | how to build a star :) |
| 23:14.26 | Twingy | great IriX64, you've demonstrated that 30 years of cad development is good for making yellow circles, here is your gold star |
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| 23:27.25 | IriX64 | heh give me credit twingy im not running from the experts :) |
| 23:28.11 | IriX64 | brlcad is 30 years old twingy? I didn't realize that. |
| 23:28.27 | IriX64 | acad is what 12? |
| 23:30.05 | brlcad | since '79 (since '83 for first release) |
| 23:32.37 | IriX64 | explains why its so rich in feature set |
| 23:33.39 | IriX64 | is it permissable to advertise it, we have a local steel mill here who builds thir own brake wheels for cars and such im sure they would be interested. |
| 23:34.43 | IriX64 | Twingy i could try turning their machine shop onto g-cam if it's ready. |
| 23:36.18 | IriX64 | that blog is for us i haven't let the url out to anybody outside the channel |
| 23:41.29 | brlcad | advertising is always permissable, and generally encouraged if done well, not offensive, nor obtrusive, etc .. getting the word out is important |
| 23:41.56 | IriX64 | ill let the steel mill know then, they are heavy into acad at the moment |
| 23:47.07 | louipc | I'm not completely certain, but I don't think steel mills really use cam software |
| 23:47.35 | IriX64 | they have a machine shop louipc, latest nc gear |
| 23:48.03 | IriX64 | twingy says he can produce tape louipc |
| 23:48.38 | IriX64 | not sure of their platform tho, may still be a vax |
| 23:49.59 | IriX64 | big mill 3rd largets in Canada |
| 23:50.05 | IriX64 | larest too |
| 23:50.12 | IriX64 | err largest grrr |
| 23:51.45 | IriX64 | think the rank is Stelco=1 Dofasco-2 Algoma=3 |
| 00:38.50 | IriX64 | this things still calculating |
| 00:42.38 | Maloeran | Would anyone here be able to clarify a few things regarding conservation of momentum in fluid dynamics? Computation of the dynamic pressure isn't clear to me |
| 00:43.12 | IriX64 | whats the circuit? |
| 00:43.51 | IriX64 | calculate the gs factor that should help, forgotten the formula but it can be looked up |
| 00:44.31 | Maloeran | "gs" factor? |
| 00:44.48 | IriX64 | feedback amplification factor |
| 00:45.18 | Maloeran | I don't think that's related |
| 00:45.37 | IriX64 | ok dynamic pressure in which part? |
| 00:46.14 | IriX64 | need a drawing to do this properly |
| 00:46.27 | IriX64 | can u paste one |
| 00:46.52 | IriX64 | err pastebin or do they allow such? |
| 00:47.40 | IriX64 | need the time constant too |
| 00:48.44 | Maloeran | That might be outside of your usual range. I'm wondering about the computation of the pressure caused by the conservation of momentum in fluid dynamics, hydrostatic pressure and gravitation are easily accounted for |
| 00:49.22 | IriX64 | your pardon, i thought we were talking hydraulic circuits :) |
| 00:50.10 | Maloeran | :) |
| 00:50.17 | deltazap | Maloeran: hang on let me see if my fluid mechanics book is around |
| 00:51.30 | IriX64 | mental note : fluid dynamics != (neccessarily) hydraulics |
| 00:51.41 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:52.08 | deltazap | ruh roh |
| 00:52.38 | IriX64 | deltazap where are you on the turorial? |
| 00:52.50 | deltazap | finished it today :) |
| 00:53.08 | IriX64 | wonderfull |
| 00:53.27 | Maloeran | Any lead or insight on the topic, deltazap? I'll figure it out eventually.. |
| 00:53.27 | IriX64 | are you going to get that mug made? :) |
| 00:53.46 | deltazap | IriX64: i just sent it off for production today :P |
| 00:53.53 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:54.08 | deltazap | Maloeran: i'll have plenty of insight on the subject as soon as i can find my book |
| 00:56.15 | IriX64 | been a while since i looked at control systems :) |
| 01:00.56 | IriX64 | thats what I like to see system idle process gets 0% cpu. |
| 01:01.54 | IriX64 | means resources are being fully utilized for the jobs at hand. |
| 01:03.20 | IriX64 | rt sure gets a good chunk :) |
| 01:07.57 | deltazap | Maloeran: are you looking at the differential form of the conservation of momentum or something else? |
| 01:08.34 | deltazap | what you're probably looking for is the Navier-Stokes equation, if that's true |
| 01:10.20 | Maloeran | Right, but unless I'm not looking at this right, it's not clear how to compute the pressure caused by the fluid momentum |
| 01:12.16 | IriX64 | would that not be the upward flow of the fluid? |
| 01:15.54 | deltazap | trying to form answer, hang on :P |
| 01:17.34 | deltazap | i'm trying to think of how to explain it, but i can't come up with anything really good off the top of my head |
| 01:17.57 | Maloeran | Oh.. :) |
| 01:18.56 | deltazap | basically, the movement of the flow causes an oh-so-little compression on the fluid, which is caused by the dynamic viscosity |
| 01:19.40 | deltazap | when you look at the Navier-Stokes equation, the du/dt term is only if you happen to have a changing fluid velocity over time |
| 01:20.27 | deltazap | if you have steady state flow, you can drop that term, move the dp/dx term over, and multiply by rho |
| 01:20.59 | Maloeran | The flow isn't steady though |
| 01:21.24 | deltazap | move it anyways :P |
| 01:21.49 | deltazap | it's been about a year since i even looked at thses problems :X |
| 01:22.09 | deltazap | so, you're given the fluid velocity as u(x,y,t)? |
| 01:22.11 | Maloeran | Fluid dynamics are a bit out of my usual domain too, fairly interesting though |
| 01:22.31 | deltazap | what is your usual domain? |
| 01:22.31 | Maloeran | I'm not given anything but I can compute that from the hydrostatic pressure variations |
| 01:22.51 | Maloeran | Programming ;), not really connected to the world of physics |
| 01:23.36 | deltazap | ah, ok |
| 01:24.21 | Maloeran | Ah hum, it's slowly beginning to make sense |
| 01:26.14 | deltazap | i'd be much more help if i had my other fluid mechanics book on me |
| 01:28.03 | deltazap | and if i could remember this stuff |
| 01:28.49 | Maloeran | Eheh, thanks |
| 01:29.11 | deltazap | it's the differential forms that made all of us cross our eyes in class |
| 01:31.02 | Maloeran | Are you presently still studying? |
| 01:32.27 | deltazap | fluid mechanics? finished that class last summer |
| 01:33.01 | deltazap | my degree? still chugging along. at least i can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel |
| 01:41.16 | deltazap | fluid mechanics is something we really couldn't go very indepth into without heavily hitting PDEs for our problems |
| 01:46.17 | Maloeran | Quite true. I'm beginning to like it though, it's a refreshing challenge |
| 01:47.46 | deltazap | it's so much more different than anything else that we study. it's just so uncertain :) |
| 01:48.31 | Maloeran | Are you in physics? Along with some software programming I hope? :) |
| 01:48.51 | deltazap | actually...no... |
| 01:48.51 | deltazap | i'm in mechanical engineering |
| 01:49.14 | deltazap | with a little bit of programming as a hobby |
| 01:50.16 | Maloeran | *nods* In the vast majority of sciences, I think good programming skills are a major advantage |
| 01:51.13 | deltazap | we're required to take a intro to programming class that's done in maple/matlab |
| 01:52.02 | deltazap | it's a wonderful thing for those who don't know programming, but it's a bit hard to describe things to people when you want to speak of integers, floats, etc. |
| 01:52.58 | deltazap | it helps show how the two are related, but majority of the time, it's hard for people to see the crossover |
| 01:54.04 | Maloeran | For mechanical engineers, I can imagine some computer science concepts may be confusing |
| 01:54.57 | Maloeran | I learned to write C such a long time ago, I think I was 12, the language is really wired in my thinking process |
| 01:55.14 | deltazap | that happens to a lot of people :) |
| 01:59.21 | deltazap | maple is great since it's a math environment that they can get things done quickly in, not to mention that it's interpreted but it can do some really weird things |
| 02:00.44 | Maloeran | Sure, it may be all you need to cover a good range of needs. I would still recommend to pick up some C eventually, if you are interested that is |
| 02:01.03 | deltazap | i can read it quite well, writing is another matter.... |
| 02:01.33 | deltazap | but that should change since i have to do a project in my Cryptography class |
| 02:01.52 | deltazap | implementing 100-digit RSA in C :X |
| 02:02.37 | Maloeran | Sounds easy. I'll trade C programming guidance for fluid dynamic tips ;) |
| 02:03.07 | deltazap | haha |
| 02:08.34 | deltazap | i'm sure the project won't be that bad, the more i read up on RSA |
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| 02:12.01 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
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| 02:15.10 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 02:29.02 | IriX64 | why does -ffast-math blow away my floating point precision? |
| 02:43.32 | deltazap | Maloeran: do you have a fluid mechanics book that has problems in it? |
| 02:44.17 | deltazap | if not, see if you can pick up a copy of "Fluid Mechanics" by Robert A. Granger, it's a Dover printed book so you know it's a steal at $35 :) |
| 02:48.46 | Maloeran | My references are wikipedia and a 56000 lines Fortran program at the moment. Getting that book seems like a good idea, I assume there's some focus on computional fluid dynamics? |
| 02:50.18 | deltazap | not really :X |
| 02:51.46 | deltazap | the local college library will have the most information on CFD |
| 02:56.58 | deltazap | ok, i'm not sure what happened to mged, but i'm getting some strangeness with zooming in |
| 02:57.00 | Maloeran | *nods* I think I got the basics right, but I need to integrate viscosity and turbulence into the model |
| 02:57.40 | deltazap | turbulence is going to be a pain |
| 02:57.51 | Maloeran | Yes I'm sure |
| 02:58.16 | deltazap | just about every formula changes when you go from laminar to turbulent flows |
| 02:58.44 | deltazap | for some reason, when i zoom in now, the model just seems to disappear, but it hasn't done this before |
| 02:59.23 | deltazap | and i'm not zooming in that far |
| 03:07.31 | deltazap | and when i do a render at that zoom level, it appears just fine |
| 03:07.43 | deltazap | but there's nothing in the model view |
| 03:08.30 | Maloeran | brlcad really is the one who can help with mged around here |
| 03:08.38 | deltazap | yeah, i figured |
| 03:08.40 | Maloeran | Or occasionally Erik if you are lucky |
| 03:17.49 | IriX64 | corrupted stack .... great :( |
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| 03:32.06 | deltazap | ack! now it's behaving! |
| 03:32.09 | deltazap | i don't get it! |
| 03:32.34 | deltazap | figures mged would crash -_- |
| 03:33.05 | Maloeran | If you describe the problem you had a bit, brlcad might be able to figure something out |
| 03:33.46 | deltazap | alright |
| 03:36.05 | deltazap | brlcad: when i draw one of my files from the tutorial, it looks fine. then, when i go to zoom in, portions of the model just disappear, but i know that i haven't clipped through them yet because when i do a quick raytrace, they appear as normal |
| 03:37.39 | deltazap | what's strange is that everything reappeared as normal right before mged just stopped responding |
| 03:50.16 | deltazap | it seems that only that one model file does it |
| 04:51.51 | IriX64 | using code just generated to produce the .g files, neat trick :) |
| 05:31.30 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/mingw/mingw_msys_instructions.txt |
| 05:31.47 | Twingy | ^-- MinGW/MSys stuff if interested |
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| 14:37.57 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: need AM_CONDITIONAL for BUILD_CUBIT |
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| 17:11.35 | IriX64 | deltazap: my drawings... parts of them wink out as X tries to keep up depending on whatt I'm doing |
| 17:12.26 | IriX64 | if you're using ogl tho, I don't know |
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| 17:36.15 | deltazap | i know that if you zoom in far enough, you start to clip into the model |
| 17:36.41 | IriX64 | does it stay gone? |
| 17:37.29 | deltazap | no, i'll reappear |
| 17:37.58 | deltazap | but the problem i had yesterday was that parts would disappear when i know that i hadn't clipped through it |
| 17:38.14 | deltazap | but it's only that one file, so i don't know |
| 17:38.34 | IriX64 | not a quirk of the display manager then? |
| 17:39.17 | deltazap | don't think so |
| 17:40.07 | IriX64 | if its only one file... maybe like terra.g it too causes problems |
| 17:42.25 | deltazap | i'll check that one out as well |
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| 19:35.10 | dodi | hello |
| 19:35.31 | dodi | i am looking for a simple tool to create a ground plan of a room, including furniture |
| 19:46.58 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 19:48.09 | dtidrow_work | well, trying to use brlcad for that would be akin to using a MOAB to take out a bug :-) |
| 19:49.17 | dtidrow_work | now if you wanted to make a really nice looking raytraced image/movie of the resulting room, then brlcad would be useful |
| 19:50.10 | brlcad | doable, though -- also depends moreso on the purpose of creating that plan, and what type of plan |
| 19:51.10 | dtidrow_work | well, yeah, it's doable, but... |
| 19:51.25 | dodi | i just need a simple 2d drawing.. to try moving furniture around and see whats best way to place them.. i dont need more features then this and dont want to learn using a big tool with rich features which i dont need at all |
| 19:51.48 | dtidrow_work | yeah, that's about what I thought |
| 19:52.17 | dtidrow_work | something like Visio for room planning :-) |
| 19:52.54 | brlcad | dodi: yeah, then brl-cad will probably be overkill or at least not what you're looking for -- you can generate the model and diagrams easily enough, but the learning curve is steep |
| 19:53.02 | brlcad | see the tutorials on the website to get an idea |
| 19:53.08 | brlcad | in particular, volume II |
| 19:56.50 | dodi | thats really too much to read for my small requirements *gg* |
| 19:58.10 | dodi | i tried finding something with google, but i got lost in hundreds of cad utilities ;) |
| 19:59.43 | brlcad | there's only a couple open source projects -- nothing really comes close |
| 19:59.50 | brlcad | there's a sea of commercial |
| 19:59.51 | dtidrow_work | heh, that's the problem with google - you generally get either hundereds of hits, or nothing at all |
| 20:00.21 | dtidrow_work | I wonder if dia could do the job... |
| 20:00.37 | dtidrow_work | assuming that dia has templates for typical room furniture, that is |
| 20:03.23 | dodi | i will try dia.. looks good and simple at the first sight ;) |
| 20:03.31 | dodi | thank you :-) |
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| 21:57.25 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): fix fold() implementation problem (now left/right versions) |
| 21:58.20 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: need to cache brep in specific structure, since internal goes away |
| 21:59.36 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug shot routine (not returning the right answers yet ;-) |
| 22:01.25 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: add region creation, so it's easy to raytrace |
| 22:02.22 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (brep_simple.cpp Makefile.am): add simple unit cube, for debugging purposes |
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| 22:26.46 | tedcx | are there any examples in the CVS tree? |
| 22:38.22 | tedcx | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:16.06 | brlcad | tedcx: examples of what? |
| 00:16.21 | brlcad | in CVS, the db dir is just db/ |
| 00:16.55 | brlcad | they're in .asc format, you run asc2g to get the binary .g |
| 00:20.31 | IriX64 | brlcad anything in there thats not in the source tarball? |
| 00:20.57 | IriX64 | save me looking please :) |
| 00:22.56 | brlcad | in where? |
| 00:23.06 | IriX64 | been perusing code, yyou have a whole magic number section, but in magic.c you put a default after the first case stament and efectivly short circuited the whole system. |
| 00:23.42 | brlcad | that's fine, it still works, default only hits when .. it doesn't match otherwise |
| 00:24.01 | IriX64 | no matter where you put default? |
| 00:24.05 | brlcad | no matter where |
| 00:24.11 | IriX64 | ahh ok |
| 00:24.20 | IriX64 | in db dir i was talking about |
| 00:24.24 | brlcad | it's just a label |
| 00:24.27 | IriX64 | before i rambled |
| 00:25.05 | poolio | hey brlcad, you get my email some time ago? |
| 00:28.26 | brlcad | poolio: yes I did |
| 00:28.27 | brlcad | thanks |
| 00:28.42 | brlcad | looked good, I'll let you know what I find out |
| 00:29.03 | poolio | brlcad: Ah, sorry well if you didn't I was going to say I had some corrections, but oh well :) |
| 00:29.17 | brlcad | that's fine too, feel free to send it |
| 02:57.51 | IriX64 | brlcad: you're not supposed to use goto's in a case statement ;) |
| 02:58.11 | IriX64 | err switch |
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| 12:50.22 | brlcad | moin rossberg |
| 12:54.15 | rossberg | good afternoon brlcad |
| 13:01.19 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: move does not return a value |
| 13:08.21 | brlcad | jason almost has brep ray-tracing working, in a day or two hopefully |
| 13:10.42 | rossberg | but not on MSVC 6.0 :-( |
| 13:11.09 | rossberg | however, with some minor changes it will work here too |
| 13:12.25 | brlcad | I added the warning quell to configure for gcc that you mentioned |
| 13:12.55 | brlcad | still some more work needed, and still have tcl 8.5 integration woes being sorted out |
| 13:15.18 | rossberg | i'm afraid we don't need to quell the warning because we don't need the friend statement |
| 13:16.52 | brlcad | yeah, I wondered that -- though it is still a bogus gcc warning |
| 13:17.39 | brlcad | kinda lame of them to default to "warn that you might be relying on our non-conformant old behavior" |
| 13:21.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/ (vector.h vector_fpu.h vector_x86.h): |
| 13:21.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: VC++ 6.0 adaptions: |
| 13:21.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: removed (redundant) struct keywords |
| 13:21.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: removed the unnecessary friend statements (operator<< does not access private class members), they cause trouble only |
| 13:22.23 | rossberg | now it works for me :-) i hope it works for you too |
| 13:23.38 | rossberg | i would like to test it on ftp.brlcad.org, but the compiler is to old |
| 13:23.51 | rossberg | it is lacking the "max" function |
| 13:24.38 | rossberg | however, one time i'll reactivate my linux ssh connections to sourceforge |
| 13:26.23 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: include the external plugins in the dist regardless of being enabled/disabled for compilation |
| 13:27.03 | rossberg | next month i'll be on holiday (with some interruptions) |
| 13:28.14 | brlcad | hmm.. it should have max() just perhaps not in the same namespace or it's an extension |
| 13:28.54 | brlcad | would need to eventually get it working on 3.3 regardless -- that's not that old a compiler :) |
| 13:29.08 | brlcad | not nearly as old as vc6 .. :) |
| 13:29.52 | rossberg | i know, it's from the last century |
| 13:33.19 | brlcad | a whole month on vacation? |
| 13:33.37 | brlcad | that's crazy/cool |
| 13:37.21 | rossberg | there are 13 days left from 2006, plus 2 days easter |
| 13:43.34 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: the cause for the no-non-template-friend problem in vector.h was removed |
| 14:42.52 | rossberg | brlcad: sorry, "fmax" is missing on ftp.brlcad.org |
| 14:47.27 | brlcad | ah |
| 14:47.48 | brlcad | could/should probably add the various c99 math macros that one might often find missing |
| 14:49.01 | brlcad | particularly for min/max |
| 14:49.35 | brlcad | i have similar checks in other projects for std::min std::max |
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| 18:20.59 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: bug fixes - simple brep cube now renders (some acne, though). twisted brep still has problems, argh. |
| 18:22.00 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (brep_simple.cpp brep_cube.cpp): some tweaks to the geometry. |
| 18:55.27 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/kdtree.c: test the malloc instead of trying to dereference a void ptr to test the malloc... |
| 18:58.07 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: Use "tienet_master_socket_list" instead of undeclared "tienet_master_socke_list". Don't people try to compile before committing anymore? |
| 18:59.12 | brlcad | not in that dir until the python/sdl checks are improved |
| 18:59.33 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 18:59.48 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: the variable is "isst_master_observer_frame", not "isst_master_observer". |
| 18:59.48 | ``Erik | you're on a branch or something? |
| 19:00.15 | ``Erik | those're the only 3, MFC? |
| 19:00.28 | brlcad | huh? |
| 19:00.56 | brlcad | i was answering the "?" |
| 19:01.21 | ``Erik | oh, in the commit msg? ehehe, that was, uh, rhetorical :) |
| 19:01.53 | ``Erik | <-- very much using adrt these days, so'z can handle any adrt related patches that come through, toss 'em my way |
| 19:02.06 | ``Erik | for the next, uh, week or so |
| 19:02.36 | brlcad | that was just a slew of simple checks done to appease someone on a tracker |
| 19:02.53 | brlcad | didn't have a means to compile test, so the spelling/typos aren't too surprising |
| 19:03.09 | brlcad | weren't any logic changes |
| 19:04.18 | ``Erik | yeah, malloc guard *shrug* but, uh, node->data=malloc(); if(!*node->data){... ? O.o |
| 19:04.29 | ``Erik | hehehe :D |
| 19:05.14 | brlcad | meh, just a typo |
| 19:12.38 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the Cubit Makefile and traverse into that dir |
| 19:14.14 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/rt.tcl: add a checkbox toggle to the raytrace control panel that allows the framebuffer to be enabled/disabled more quickly than hitting one of the menu options. |
| 19:19.07 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: framebuffer toggle added to raytrace panel in mged |
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| 19:21.39 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/413889 |
| 19:21.51 | IriX64 | can somebody expain how this works to me? |
| 19:23.25 | IriX64 | its the second condition im having trouble understanding |
| 19:24.09 | ``Erik | look at the cdecl program |
| 19:25.17 | IriX64 | where? |
| 19:25.27 | ``Erik | are you using cygwin? |
| 19:25.34 | IriX64 | yes |
| 19:25.44 | ``Erik | there might be a package in cygwin, perhaps in the devel category |
| 19:25.52 | IriX64 | ty |
| 19:26.18 | IriX64 | wrote a little thing the & comes up with the size of the ptr |
| 19:26.40 | IriX64 | what bother s me is why doesn't it fail, that thing will never evaluate a 0 |
| 19:26.46 | IriX64 | as 0 |
| 19:27.57 | IriX64 | and if it comes up true it *should trigger the error thing |
| 19:28.04 | IriX64 | but its not |
| 19:30.03 | ``Erik | sure it does, if _ptr=0, then 0&0xffffffff = 0 |
| 19:30.25 | ``Erik | 'cept, uh... O.o huh |
| 19:30.28 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:30.30 | IriX64 | ok |
| 19:30.35 | ``Erik | no, I'm off |
| 19:30.37 | brlcad | that macro basically says "make sure the pointer isn't 0, isn't -1, and matches the magic specified as the argument -- else call bu_badmagic() which aborts |
| 19:30.45 | ``Erik | sizeof(long)-1 will be like &0x3 |
| 19:30.50 | ``Erik | or &0x7 |
| 19:30.59 | ``Erik | it makes sure the pointer is aligned? |
| 19:31.00 | IriX64 | 3 on my machine |
| 19:31.16 | ``Erik | so I guess no stealing low bits for flags O:-) |
| 19:31.27 | IriX64 | i see not guaranteed to be same on different archs? |
| 19:31.50 | brlcad | hmm.. that sizeof() is fishy |
| 19:32.06 | IriX64 | badmagic.c uses size_t tho not long |
| 19:32.13 | ``Erik | 32b machines will be 3, 64b might be 7 or 3, ... *shrug* the size of a long is not fixed in the spec |
| 19:32.35 | ``Erik | should be sizeof(size_t)-1 I'd guess *shrug* |
| 19:33.00 | IriX64 | was trying to see whos right badmagic.c or the macro. |
| 19:33.11 | brlcad | nothing in bu is "supposed" to be using a size_t (until your recent change) |
| 19:33.15 | brlcad | and that was intentional |
| 19:33.43 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:34.20 | IriX64 | btw i compiled gcc so it runs in native windows ``Erik, a wonderous sight. |
| 19:34.49 | IriX64 | now for a gui ;) |
| 19:34.53 | dtidrow_work | why not just use mingw? |
| 19:35.04 | IriX64 | i prefer gcc4.1.2 |
| 19:35.08 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 19:35.50 | IriX64 | relies on cygwin1.dll but what the hey it compiles and links. |
| 19:36.10 | IriX64 | just have to set your paths to the libs and all that |
| 19:36.53 | IriX64 | the hello worlsd program it produxes runs on windows |
| 19:37.19 | IriX64 | reminds me i have to prove it does *not need the dll ill be back |
| 19:39.08 | Maloeran | Use -mwindows to remove cygwin1.dll dependency, also removes the Posix compatibility layer |
| 19:42.40 | ``Erik | -mno-cygwin I thought *shrug* but that was a while ago |
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| 19:45.47 | IriX64 | bwahhahahahah -mno-cygwin and it works ``Erik, compile like this gcc -mno-cygwin t.c |
| 19:46.10 | IriX64 | produced the prettiest little a.exe ive ever seen |
| 19:46.54 | IriX64 | 12409 bytes big (it says hello and printers out some stuff) |
| 19:49.57 | IriX64 | for real ``Erik it runs on my other boxen that has never seen cygwin |
| 19:50.57 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 20:04.43 | Maloeran | If only ./configure could be multi-process |
| 20:05.20 | Maloeran | Oh oops, it is -mno-cygwin. -mwindow is to create a win32 gui program |
| 20:05.53 | brlcad | no kidding |
| 20:06.04 | brlcad | if I could have hacked that in easily, I would have already |
| 20:06.52 | ``Erik | parallelizing the autogen/config process? it'd be akin to making a self-parallelizing programming language on-top of posix sh.. |
| 20:06.56 | brlcad | but that'd be one fugly configure script that'd be hard as hell to debug if/when there were threading issues |
| 20:07.30 | Maloeran | To me, that's another sign that autoconf is broken :) |
| 20:07.35 | brlcad | can't really parallelize autogen.sh itself -- though they could make autoconf/automake parallel |
| 20:07.42 | Maloeran | Indeed |
| 20:07.49 | ``Erik | what, that all it needs is a posix shell? that's one of the biggest boons of it |
| 20:08.00 | ``Erik | and why it kicks scons&friends asses |
| 20:08.12 | Maloeran | ./configure often takes longuer than the actual compilation with enough cores |
| 20:08.38 | ``Erik | heh, make bigger programs? :D (be nice if there was a fast system cache of things, though) |
| 20:09.30 | brlcad | there is an extensive caching system, but and you can create system caches that are used .. --cache-file option |
| 20:09.43 | Maloeran | Mmhm, I think I'm addicted to computational fluid dynamics. For now anyway |
| 20:10.01 | ``Erik | be addicted to delivering rayforce on, um, saturday? :D |
| 20:10.07 | brlcad | we have a lot of tests that don't cache or test for cached at the moment too |
| 20:10.19 | Maloeran | Saturday, so soon? Oh hum :) |
| 20:10.28 | ``Erik | mar31, right? |
| 20:10.46 | Maloeran | Right. You guys will have access to the cvs for further updates though |
| 20:12.32 | ``Erik | their cvs pserver is being retarded for me |
| 20:13.01 | Maloeran | The mail notification thing is broken, the rest seems fine |
| 20:13.08 | ``Erik | I get lock issues |
| 20:13.25 | Maloeran | Oh yes, I got that too.. but I think the code still updates? |
| 20:13.46 | ``Erik | yes, but I can't get that cache file on it |
| 20:14.20 | Maloeran | Connection refused on 69.250.155.85:26877 |
| 20:15.48 | Maloeran | I should have hosted cvs at home. They apparently spent $5k to get that gforge server, or whatever it was, recommended by Lee although it never became usable |
| 20:19.15 | ``Erik | gforge is a dandy tool... I thought they were gonna virtualize it? why have they been sitting on their hands? |
| 20:19.16 | ``Erik | (and $5k is chump change) |
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| 20:31.18 | Maloeran | Chump change for them I guess, it was still a waste. Anyone could just have hosted that at home |
| 20:31.19 | Maloeran | ( and it would have been up a tiny bit faster ) |
| 20:31.19 | ``Erik | oh, yay |
| 20:31.20 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad/HEAD/lib/librt.so: undefined reference to `_ZNSo9_M_insertEPKcl@GLIBCXX_3.4.9' |
| 20:31.20 | Maloeran | That's a neat function name |
| 20:31.22 | ``Erik | c++ crap |
| 20:31.24 | Maloeran | Thanks for the big endian cache |
| 20:31.24 | ``Erik | np, hope it helps |
| 20:31.24 | ``Erik | cvs server: [15:16:09] waiting for cvs's lock in /usr/local/cvsrayforce/rayforce |
| 20:31.24 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 20:31.25 | Maloeran | Oh yes, I had that too |
| 20:32.06 | brlcad | looks like insert(), some glibc internal |
| 20:32.06 | ``Erik | stdc++ actually |
| 20:32.06 | ``Erik | GLIBCXX |
| 20:32.06 | brlcad | that was implied |
| 20:32.40 | ``Erik | linking with g++ seems to fix it... but it's not a damn c++ program *grouse* :( |
| 20:32.40 | brlcad | run it through filt |
| 20:32.40 | brlcad | what's the actual symbol? |
| 20:32.40 | ``Erik | hm, -lstdc++ fixes it, too |
| 20:33.08 | ``Erik | 'filt'? |
| 20:33.08 | ``Erik | doens't seem to be on that machine |
| 20:33.08 | brlcad | echo "_ZNSo9_M_insertEPKcl" | c++-filt |
| 20:33.08 | brlcad | or echo "_ZNSo9_M_insertEPKcl" | c++-filt2 |
| 20:33.33 | ``Erik | ah, c++filt |
| 20:33.44 | ``Erik | std::ostream::_M_insert(char const*, long) |
| 20:34.20 | Maloeran | Neat, I just learned something then |
| 20:34.31 | brlcad | yeah, internal template foo on a stream operator somewhere |
| 20:34.56 | brlcad | ``Erik: check config.log -- there's a test for it, see why it failed |
| 20:35.09 | ``Erik | um, this isn't in BRL-CAD, this is something that uses librt and libtie |
| 20:35.27 | brlcad | hmm |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | librt should be linking against -lstdc++ so that's resolved |
| 20:36.12 | ``Erik | hm, it's actually listed in the ldd of librt, odd |
| 20:37.48 | brlcad | grep LIBSTD src/librt/Makefile |
| 20:37.53 | ``Erik | the quad opteron, ~/src/rtcmp/build/amd64* |
| 20:38.08 | brlcad | should be two lines |
| 20:38.43 | ``Erik | yeah... it's there, and right.. and ldd on the librt.so gives the right dep lib.. :/ *shrug* |
| 20:39.36 | ``Erik | <-- scratches his head |
| 20:40.03 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD was compiled with gcc42, yet librt references: libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/local/lib/gcc-4.1.2/libstdc++.so.6 (0x80121d000) |
| 20:40.59 | brlcad | that's why |
| 20:41.09 | brlcad | minor ABI incompatibility |
| 20:41.25 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 20:41.31 | jack- | so it still builds perfectly with 4.0.1 right? |
| 20:41.39 | brlcad | there's a minithread on gcc-bugs mailing list about it on x86_64-portbld-freebsd6.2 |
| 20:41.39 | ``Erik | g++ sucks for that... |
| 20:41.52 | ``Erik | this is a completely seperate program, jack-... it just USES librt... :) |
| 20:41.54 | brlcad | specific to 4.2 |
| 20:41.58 | jack- | oh ok |
| 20:43.44 | ``Erik | weird, g++42 must be broken on that machine |
| 20:43.54 | brlcad | dist seems to be refixed now |
| 20:44.13 | ``Erik | adding /usr/local/lib/gcc-4.2.0 to to LD_LIBRARY_PATH makes it all peachy :/ |
| 20:44.19 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:56.01 | dli | is gcc-4.2.0 released? |
| 20:57.52 | ``Erik | not quite |
| 20:57.54 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 20:59.11 | IriX64 | i think ive got 4.3x somewhere tried compiling it... missing bits |
| 21:06.08 | IriX64 | err gcc 4.3 somesnapshot :) |
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| 21:49.10 | zorro1978 | i want to try brlcad |
| 21:49.26 | zorro1978 | i have just installed .deb file with dpkg -i |
| 21:50.02 | zorro1978 | all seems to be ok, but i don't know wich is the executable to run |
| 21:50.13 | zorro1978 | someone can help me? |
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| 22:41.24 | IriX64 | i'll short circuit it, write my own uname.exe i guess. |
| 22:44.10 | IriX64 | should be kosher, it's not going anywhere |
| 23:11.38 | louipc_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:12.01 | louipc | cheers |
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| 00:11.22 | IriX64 | the fairies just dropped in, going to be a good spring, summer, fall and winter haven't made up their minds yet |
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| 07:40.44 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: |
| 07:40.44 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: VC++ 6.0 does not like near, far (obsolete keyword error) |
| 07:40.44 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: operator= should return a reference to *this |
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| 13:55.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (tri.h adrt/adrt.c): use linear fastf_t buf for tri data instead of typedef on typedef on typedef |
| 13:58.24 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/tri.c: |
| 13:58.24 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: Move to linear fastf_t buffers. Radical simplification. Proper endian |
| 13:58.24 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: safety added/tested. |
| 14:59.26 | Maloeran | You aren't the only one |
| 14:59.34 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6506027.stm - Yay |
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| 15:08.42 | ``Erik | oh, but they'll install the wrong linux, not only htat, they'll install it all wrong |
| 15:08.50 | ``Erik | :D |
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| 15:22.09 | clock_ | ``Erik: and then all will turn into hardcore trolls and accuse each other from trolling in a huge flamewar tsunami |
| 15:22.31 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:23.10 | clock_ | ``Erik: do you mean the same modding as in slashdot? |
| 15:23.15 | ``Erik | yeah :D |
| 15:23.17 | clock_ | What does -1 mean? |
| 15:23.23 | ``Erik | down a point... |
| 15:23.52 | ``Erik | usually it's like "+1 insightful" or "-1 troll" |
| 15:23.58 | clock_ | can you mod -2? |
| 15:24.07 | ``Erik | but, uh, relevance seems to be a bad thing in slashdot |
| 15:24.07 | clock_ | aha -1 relevant hehe |
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| 15:24.30 | clock_ | yeah and relevance also increases the probability that you'll be accused from trolling |
| 15:24.30 | ``Erik | no, but if enough people mod up, the score goes up |
| 15:25.03 | clock_ | and then you can see the statistics how many people said troll how many relevant how many insightful etc.? |
| 15:25.28 | clock_ | interesting that projects like gEDA, BRL-CAD or Ronja usually have an easy discussion |
| 15:25.54 | clock_ | and projects like Linux or OpenBSD or Gentoo are very sensitive to exploding into a trolllabelling fit |
| 15:26.07 | ``Erik | people get religion about funny things |
| 15:26.25 | clock_ | i. e. in-depth discussion is impossible |
| 15:27.11 | ``Erik | it's the people with little to no knowledge that really get flamey about things, usually |
| 15:27.32 | clock_ | or personality disorder developers like theo de raadt |
| 15:27.48 | ``Erik | they'll spot one minor wart on whatever isn't their favorite and focus on it, ignoring the 8 zillion good things |
| 15:27.55 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 15:27.58 | ``Erik | and conveniently ignoring the warts on their own |
| 15:28.41 | clock_ | You mean realloc is slow when it has to move the block? |
| 15:29.50 | ``Erik | doug leas malloc does slight of hand to remap pages, so realloc across page boundries is pretty cheap... phkmalloc forces memory contiguous, so if you can't take the next page, it allocates in a completely new area, copies the old data, then frees the old area |
| 15:30.32 | ``Erik | the pathological case gives you a malloc/copy/free cycle every realloc |
| 15:31.24 | ``Erik | if you have a program that reads a file stupidly, like read a page, realloc, read the next page, ad nauseum... it shows :) (but if you were to, say, stat the file, allocate the size and read it... or mmap, it ain't an issue) |
| 15:31.39 | *** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:32.26 | ``Erik | chaining buffers linked list style also "fix" it at the cost of losing contiguouity (sp?) during the read |
| 15:32.37 | ``Erik | oi, timbert |
| 15:33.44 | joevalleyfield | my presence is random |
| 15:35.23 | ``Erik | well, I d'no |
| 15:35.33 | ``Erik | he hides in a dark cave with a club and screams at children |
| 15:37.44 | ``Erik | and EATS TEHIR BONES |
| 15:37.55 | clock_ | BONES!!!!11111 |
| 15:38.04 | ``Erik | !!@!~@~!!!~!ONE!~@!~ |
| 15:39.04 | clock_ | actually I thought it should be possible to use BRL-CAD to produce some kind of industrial 3D rendered art |
| 15:39.25 | ``Erik | in what sense? |
| 15:39.34 | clock_ | I saw often posters for technical things including some kind of artistically processed blueprints, diagrams or wireframe models |
| 15:40.06 | clock_ | so one could either use rt-edge to produce such linedraw pictures, or straight rt to make colour pictures |
| 15:40.13 | clock_ | modeling of stylized technical elements should be easy |
| 15:40.17 | ``Erik | oh, sure, um, the plot routines generate rough wireframe, or you could tesselate and generate wireframe... and if you want to raytrace things, the shaders are fairly easy to write, check out src/liboptical |
| 15:40.46 | clock_ | can one write a script / little program to generate "landscapes" in ASCII? |
| 15:40.56 | clock_ | To make e.g. repeating changing patterns etc.? |
| 15:41.20 | ``Erik | um, there is a program to generate random dsp's |
| 15:41.28 | clock_ | what is a random dsp? |
| 15:41.31 | ``Erik | which are good for gnenerating terrain |
| 15:41.36 | ``Erik | dsp is kinda like a heightfield map |
| 15:41.44 | clock_ | no I don't mean real landscape |
| 15:42.09 | ``Erik | like if you generated a 2d plasma image and fed that to POV as a heightfield |
| 15:42.11 | clock_ | I mean for example a bunch of low cylinders with different colours, positions and diameters |
| 15:42.31 | ``Erik | oh, I'd imagine a tcl script could do that easily enough |
| 15:42.45 | ``Erik | or if you want to get fancy, a procdb |
| 15:42.51 | clock_ | can I specify the geometry in ASCII without trying to parrot the ASCII dump? |
| 15:43.23 | ``Erik | by 'ascii dump', do you mean the .asc form of a .g file? |
| 15:43.24 | joevalleyfield | write an mged script and pipe it to mged? |
| 15:43.39 | clock_ | that's an idea |
| 15:43.46 | clock_ | can I do just cat script | mged |
| 15:43.48 | clock_ | ? |
| 15:43.48 | ``Erik | mged -c is nifty :) |
| 15:44.04 | clock_ | can't get man mged is there a page? |
| 15:44.15 | ``Erik | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/man man mged |
| 15:45.48 | clock_ | wow |
| 15:46.19 | clock_ | hmm mged -c asks the user at start for something, is it gonna work? |
| 15:46.27 | clock_ | Or do I need to prepend an answer? |
| 15:46.37 | joevalleyfield | it should work |
| 15:46.47 | joevalleyfield | it should detect that the input isn't coming from a terminal |
| 15:47.13 | clock_ | oh yeah seems so and then it doesn't display the graphics |
| 15:47.18 | ``Erik | $ echo 'tops' | mged -c ktank.g |
| 15:47.18 | ``Erik | _GLOBAL ktank/ metaball.r/R |
| 15:47.18 | ``Erik | air/ ktank-facets |
| 15:47.24 | clock_ | that's actually quite handy |
| 16:44.12 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/partm.c: internal functions should be static |
| 16:45.48 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/dry/dry.c: return negative radius for bounding sphere, as this is not a legit engine |
| 17:23.32 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543513.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:29.32 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: add notion of views |
| 17:30.19 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: add "golden rays", begin move to orthos view instead of "same ray" |
| 17:54.40 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: add some more "interesting" ray directions |
| 17:55.59 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: show ray packets for visual inspection... will be automated later |
| 17:57.46 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: uh, normalize the right dir vectors... |
| 18:05.12 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: File->_R is raytrace, not renderview. Fixes bug 1687710 |
| 18:18.01 | ``Erik | amusing, the mailing lists on sf don't escape the body, so'z the it tries to parse C diffs as html in the web thingy O.o |
| 18:45.23 | brlcad | heh, or just mged -c ktank.g tops |
| 18:45.56 | brlcad | anything after the db throws it into single command mode |
| 19:00.07 | ``Erik | the idea was to have a long script that he can cat into it :) |
| 19:00.51 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544250.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:01.08 | ``Erik | mged -c < cmdsoutthewazoo |
| 19:04.12 | louipc | eh? |
| 19:07.53 | brlcad | yeah, but then echo doesn't show that well :) |
| 19:08.10 | brlcad | a herenow doc also works well |
| 19:08.20 | brlcad | mged -c file.g <<EOF |
| 19:08.21 | brlcad | ls |
| 19:08.22 | brlcad | tops |
| 19:08.23 | brlcad | EOF |
| 19:11.10 | ``Erik | the echo was to vrfy tims statement :) |
| 19:13.55 | brlcad | ah, true dat |
| 20:04.30 | ``Erik | perhaps not o.O :D |
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| 02:46.11 | IriX64 | www/irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 02:46.28 | IriX64 | windows brlcad at work |
| 02:49.42 | brlcad | where'd the shuttle model come from? |
| 02:58.05 | IriX64 | some site i found on the web, shall i search again, i can probably find it |
| 03:19.11 | brlcad | nah, just curious |
| 03:19.20 | brlcad | you converted from dxf or something i presume |
| 03:19.32 | brlcad | looks like there's multiple top-level objects being displayed/rendered |
| 03:24.06 | IriX64 | yes from a dxf |
| 03:26.28 | IriX64 | http://www.escape.de/~quincunx/dxf/ this site |
| 03:26.52 | IriX64 | this one is a dxf |
| 03:46.00 | brlcad | you can't directly convert a dwg |
| 03:46.07 | brlcad | that's a 2D file format, not solid geometry |
| 03:46.25 | brlcad | if you can get someone to turn that into a dxf, then there is some potential import paths |
| 03:50.33 | IriX64 | mmm ty |
| 04:00.53 | deltazap | brlcad: how good is the converter at working with dxf's? |
| 04:01.40 | brlcad | it's not fully tested with several of the 2D dxf types, but it is a fairly comprehensive converter |
| 04:02.27 | brlcad | it should even bring in the 2D items now using the cvs head version |
| 04:02.31 | brlcad | as sketch objects |
| 04:06.20 | deltazap | i learned today how powerful the mged editing functions are |
| 04:07.29 | deltazap | much better than trying to click and drag things around |
| 04:10.59 | IriX64 | theres something to be said about a good command line |
| 04:11.43 | IriX64 | not to mention that beautiful "exec" anything :) |
| 04:12.30 | deltazap | it forces you to know the geometry |
| 04:12.47 | IriX64 | yes, a good thing |
| 04:14.25 | brlcad | deltazap: ahh, excellent.. that's one of several karmatic delight moments that come with experience that just can't be easily explained |
| 04:15.21 | brlcad | akin to explaining the true flexibility and power of the unix command prompt to a new user |
| 05:04.53 | IriX64 | ki6ijg: sorry about that info thing, was just testing something |
| 05:08.17 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-21 (n=CIA@cia.navi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
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| 09:46.08 | IriX64 | man... bu_badmagic() and bu_badmagic_tcl are not consistent... |
| 09:46.31 | IriX64 | files badmagic.c and bu_tcl.c |
| 11:53.17 | *** join/#brlcad cad85 (n=50574604@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 12:39.27 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 12:43.11 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.76) | |
| 13:24.06 | ``Erik | erm, not consistant in what regard? and why would they be? O.o |
| 13:52.25 | *** join/#brlcad jackhandsome69 (n=handsome@adsl-65-71-92-216.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) | |
| 13:52.45 | jackhandsome69 | anyone know anything about autocad 2006 here? |
| 13:53.03 | ``Erik | not I |
| 13:54.01 | archivist | I gave up on autocad 1 |
| 13:54.16 | docelic | :)) |
| 13:55.34 | jackhandsome69 | ok.. was just looking for a way to batch plot .dwg's out of autocad 2006 |
| 13:57.59 | brlcad | jackhandsome69: heh |
| 13:58.41 | brlcad | i suppose i shouldn't take too much offense to the support request for a commercial competitor :) |
| 13:59.16 | brlcad | alas, I don't know the answer to your question other than doing a bunch of lisp scripting on the autocad command line |
| 13:59.26 | brlcad | and how to exactly go about that.. have fun :) |
| 14:00.06 | ``Erik | heh, (for-each plot '(dwg1 dwg2 dwg3)) ? |
| 14:00.35 | ``Erik | <-- scheme-head :D |
| 14:02.29 | d_rossberg | brlcad: i send a message to the brlcad-users list, unfortunately from an unregistered account, now it waits for administrator's approval |
| 14:02.56 | brlcad | d_rossberg: k, I'll pass it |
| 14:04.39 | d_rossberg | thanks |
| 14:05.04 | ``Erik | <-- scratches chin and ponders |
| 14:05.28 | ``Erik | I may have a new weekend project :D |
| 14:06.54 | archivist | like gmail trys but fails |
| 14:10.54 | ``Erik | I never liked gmail |
| 14:10.54 | ``Erik | even yahoo is more usable... even the NEW yahoo... |
| 14:11.02 | ``Erik | <-- write his own client after getting annoyed with pine and mutt and running into crashes in xfmail at ~10k emails :/ |
| 14:11.58 | ``Erik | but I'm getting tired of writing and fixing regex rules for pre-sorting :) |
| 14:12.21 | ``Erik | heheheh... Some people, when confronted with a problem, think I know, Ill use regular expressions. Now they have two problems. --Jamie Zawinski, in comp.lang.emacs |
| 14:12.27 | archivist | I like the 2.8 gig of free storage |
| 14:12.34 | ``Erik | yahoo is claiming unlimited |
| 14:13.16 | archivist | for me yakspew over does the adverts |
| 14:14.22 | ``Erik | hehehe, "ad-block" on firefox :) |
| 14:14.26 | ``Erik | also; who cares about 2.8g... |
| 14:14.27 | ``Erik | $ df -k | grep -v ^File | awk '{print $2}' | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024),' | bc -l |
| 14:14.27 | ``Erik | 468.18545913696289062500 |
| 14:14.57 | ``Erik | (that's gigs for those who can't be arsed to read my mess) |
| 14:15.16 | ``Erik | all local disk, it's my "fileserver" |
| 14:15.19 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:16.31 | ``Erik | I should tkae a pic.. it's a horrible thing... a $300 wally world special, replaced the ps with something beefier... but the ps blocks the cpu fan, so the machien is open on its side witht he power supply sitting ontop of the 5.25" bay (loose), and 4 drives stacked one on another next to it (loose), plus the one bolted in the machine :) |
| 14:19.17 | archivist | hehe i know the build method well |
| 14:20.59 | archivist | my early linux box 10 scsi stacked loose psu from another box(still in it) |
| 14:22.23 | ``Erik | hehehe, I had a dec prioris with a stack of old 2g barracuda scsi's stacked and kinda held in place by the ribbon... dual p133... massive ps, and the drives weren't scsi... swear the entire coffee table sized machine twitched whwen ya hit the button and the drives started cranking |
| 14:23.27 | archivist | current box i am using for surfing/ #mysql bot www.archivist.info/thewench normal sans case method |
| 14:23.33 | ``Erik | looked kinda like http://www.anfa.org/image.php?img=561 except the door was broken off and it was... well... crap |
| 16:48.54 | deltazap | ok, i know that i had asked about this the other day, but i'm still not sure about it |
| 16:49.16 | deltazap | replacing a primative with a region |
| 16:49.30 | deltazap | for instance, i'm trying to model something built from 80/20 |
| 16:50.04 | deltazap | so, i created the structure using arb8s and then i was going to go back and replace them with the 8020 models |
| 16:51.19 | deltazap | er...8020 region |
| 16:52.19 | deltazap | i'm guessing that i'd have to make the 8020 region the same length of the primative that i want to replace |
| 17:15.09 | ``Erik | erm, regions are built out of combinations and primitives... |
| 17:21.24 | deltazap | yes yes, but i want to replace an existing primitive in the model with a newly created region |
| 17:22.33 | ``Erik | erm, but you NEED those primitives to build the new region... "r thing.r part1.s u part2.s", then you can "B thing.r" |
| 17:22.56 | ``Erik | (or d part1.s;d part2.s) |
| 17:23.03 | deltazap | i was going to use a new set a primatives for the region, then swap out that primative with the new region |
| 17:23.39 | ``Erik | erm, so you're going to ... clone primitives... to build the region... then delete the old primitives? |
| 17:25.47 | deltazap | i wouldn't need to clone them |
| 17:27.08 | ``Erik | one of us doens't understand what you're trying to do :) (probably me) |
| 17:27.26 | deltazap | erm...ok, i'm probably not thinking about it right |
| 17:28.24 | ``Erik | combinations are built from combinations and/or primitives... regions are built from combinations and/or primitives... *EVERY* bit of geometry resolves down to primitives as the leaves of the tree |
| 17:29.49 | deltazap | yes |
| 17:30.10 | *** join/#brlcad KWartS (n=KWartS@202.137.21.109) | |
| 17:50.22 | ``Erik | "back in the day, they had transaction safe databases: we called them file systems." |
| 17:54.45 | *** join/#brlcad KWartS (n=KWartS@202.137.21.109) | |
| 17:56.20 | brlcad | now we don't even have transaction safe file systems ;) |
| 17:58.28 | deltazap | with regards to journaled file systems: "if the file doesn't commit, you must acquit" |
| 17:59.11 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:03.31 | deltazap | is there any way to change a parameter when in matrix editing mode? |
| 18:11.07 | deltazap | i can pick the scale x option but the only way to give it a value is by using oscale command, but that only does multiples of the current shape, not absolute distance |
| 18:14.56 | IriX64 | ``Erik when you get it up to Ektbytes i'll be interested :) |
| 18:22.44 | ``Erik | exa, ya mean? |
| 18:22.58 | IriX64 | yah ;) |
| 18:23.19 | IriX64 | the storage superhighway :P |
| 18:23.43 | ``Erik | hm, talk to me again in 11 years |
| 18:23.54 | deltazap | brlcad had mentioned using the push command, but idk :X |
| 18:24.01 | IriX64 | I don't age well :) |
| 18:24.20 | ``Erik | me, either, I fight it tooth and nail... |
| 18:24.34 | IriX64 | yah so why do we *always lose? |
| 18:25.13 | ``Erik | YOU might be losing... |
| 18:25.20 | IriX64 | heh ty |
| 18:27.03 | IriX64 | brlcad: might have found my shared libraries issue. |
| 18:27.47 | brlcad | deltazap: the push/xpush command doesn't actually "change" your geometry.. it just removes the matrices from your combinations and regions, applying the transformations directly to the primitives |
| 18:28.37 | ``Erik | brlcad, tell me a bedtime story about wdb and instancing (which I assume is geometry talk for something akin to a pointer?) |
| 18:28.38 | deltazap | yeah, i'm seeing that now |
| 18:29.13 | ``Erik | (in the frame of http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1547926&group_id=105292&atid=640805 ) |
| 18:29.55 | deltazap | now that i see that, what does a matrix describe exactly? |
| 18:30.05 | deltazap | the tutorial never mentions matrices in it |
| 18:30.22 | ``Erik | rotation, trnaslation, scaling, ... |
| 18:31.55 | brlcad | homogenous coordination transformations ;) |
| 18:32.10 | deltazap | X_X |
| 18:32.27 | ``Erik | one of the appendices of the opengl 'redbook' goes into glorious/horrifying detail |
| 18:33.10 | ``Erik | um, you can get it at opengl.org in the documentation section |
| 18:33.26 | brlcad | ``Erik: sounds like something that someone (becky in this case) has been told over the years to overcome other modeling & analysis issues |
| 18:34.04 | brlcad | instancing in this case is very much like a pointer, just referencing something else instead of having actual unique objects (and *much* more importantly, unique regions) |
| 18:34.13 | ``Erik | hm, I was thinking about adding it as a flag in g_qa, not sure how the wdb side of it would work |
| 18:34.30 | ``Erik | so jsut two regions using the same primitive? |
| 18:34.40 | brlcad | personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with modelling left/right half if that's what they wanted to do |
| 18:34.51 | brlcad | the problem is that other tools make assumptions |
| 18:34.52 | ``Erik | or something of that nature? a reference count would solve it? |
| 18:35.22 | brlcad | it's not so easy because it is perfectly find to "instance" some things |
| 18:35.26 | brlcad | s/find/fine/ |
| 18:35.53 | brlcad | it's only important from a muves analysis results perspective usually (and future modelling ease of use) |
| 18:35.59 | ``Erik | yeah, I got that... *shrug* it might be a misfeature, but *shrug* might be useful to someone |
| 18:36.18 | ``Erik | and I'd rather not do the scr dance with them. |
| 18:36.20 | brlcad | seems like a misfeature to me.. compensating for a problem elsewhere |
| 18:36.39 | ``Erik | hm, ccb fodder? |
| 18:36.48 | brlcad | it's like telling modellers that they shouldn't use a half-space to slice objects |
| 18:37.38 | brlcad | the only problem with using half-spaces is that they are unoptimized, so it kills ray-trace performance .. as a modelling tool, it's rather straight-forward and understandable -- just as understandable as just "flipping" the left half a vehicle and calling it done |
| 18:38.07 | brlcad | if clone were completed, it would solve the "reference" problem |
| 18:38.09 | ``Erik | *nod* I know in lightwave tutorials, I saw the 'mirror' approach being "normal" |
| 18:38.23 | brlcad | as clone does a deep copy |
| 18:38.45 | brlcad | you could replace all references with copies as needed using it |
| 18:39.14 | ``Erik | aight, I saw that pr as 'low hanging fruit' and figured I'd look into it... smells like ccb fodder *shrug* :) |
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| 18:47.19 | brlcad | more cool would be refactoring g_qa into an api |
| 18:47.50 | brlcad | it's pretty much a perfect arbitrary resolution voxelizer if it were made into an API |
| 18:47.58 | ``Erik | I was lookin' for simple mindless droll that could be hacked in without risking release schedule *shrug* :) |
| 18:49.05 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos <---- compatibility (Nothing to do with brlcad) |
| 18:49.29 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:49.37 | IriX64 | just had to share :) |
| 18:51.33 | brlcad | still not yet, though I didn't get back to it last night |
| 18:52.25 | brlcad | i'm actually not sure how to get it to readily find it's resources when the init.tcl is not generated, sitting in the source dir, and it's looking in the (empty) install locations |
| 18:52.58 | brlcad | I could readd the blind searching that it had, but that's so hackish |
| 18:53.40 | brlcad | would not run btclsh until it's installed, but then that screws with the index files |
| 18:53.58 | ``Erik | hrmph, in src/other/Makefile.am, have a ginormous listing of 'subcofnigure' files in EXTRA_DIST and avoid recursing into those dirs on dist? |
| 18:54.26 | ``Erik | worsethanfailure.com ++ |
| 19:07.53 | ``Erik | aaaaand there it all went |
| 19:13.33 | deltazap | i know there has to be an easier way of doing what i'm doing |
| 19:18.38 | deltazap | how does the matrix selection dialog and oed compare? for instance, which side does the first matrix select window correlate to? |
| 19:21.41 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-21.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:32.23 | dtidrow_work | O/T question: are there SATA->Parallel ATA converters? |
| 19:33.10 | dtidrow_work | ie. I want to be able to use some older PATA hard drives with a new mobo that has several SATA connectors |
| 19:44.27 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: think of the path down to any primitive in a combination i.e. /path/to/some/primitive .. even if "path" is all you wanted to move |
| 19:45.04 | brlcad | matrix selection and oed are identical in that you specify the right and left half (hence the two dialogs) |
| 19:45.53 | brlcad | if you wanted to apply a matrix edit to the instance of "some" in the object "path", it would be oed /path/to some/primitive |
| 19:46.55 | dtidrow_work | ? |
| 19:47.02 | brlcad | via the gui, it basically first asks you for which full path to primitive (/path/to/some/primitive) and then asks for where to place the matrix (some) |
| 19:47.22 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: oop, sorry -- that was meant for deltazap |
| 19:47.23 | dtidrow_work | ah, you're really talking to deltazap |
| 19:47.27 | brlcad | tab completion |
| 19:47.38 | dtidrow_work | yeah, thought so :-) |
| 19:47.50 | dtidrow_work | anyway, I found some: http://www.cooldrives.com/idehadrtosap.html |
| 19:47.54 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:49.24 | dtidrow_work | looking to upgrade the guts of my home 'puter, but still be able to use existing hard and CD/DVD drives |
| 19:49.44 | dtidrow_work | the one mobo I was looking at only had one PATA controller, but 4 SATA connectors |
| 20:03.29 | deltazap | brlcad: thanks, i think i'm slowly understanding |
| 21:24.46 | ``Erik | http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=chicago+to+london&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=42.581364,112.148438&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=3&ll=46.437857,-42.890625&spn=37.174963,112.148438&om=1 |
| 21:24.48 | ``Erik | step 20 |
| 21:25.59 | archivist | the swimming was step 26 on the one i saw earlier today |
| 21:27.20 | ``Erik | ah, heh |
| 21:30.33 | archivist | I cant look on this box but if that goes through france there is an error , no road through the channel |
| 21:31.32 | archivist | step 26: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=wilmington,+nc&daddr=london,+uk&sll=51.500197,-0.126197&sspn=0.132294,0.365639&layer=&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=3 |
| 21:31.44 | ``Erik | boston puts it at 9 |
| 21:33.28 | archivist | step 43 on that one from me is a bit wet |
| 21:35.33 | ``Erik | 43? the "swim 3465 miles"? I got that as #26 |
| 21:35.42 | ``Erik | or, wait, from your residence |
| 21:35.43 | ``Erik | gotcha |
| 21:36.40 | archivist | oo does work on this box |
| 21:37.19 | archivist | step 37 on the chicago to london |
| 21:37.37 | archivist | that should be swim as well |
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| 00:53.30 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/417658 <------ brlcad, is this benign? |
| 00:56.27 | brlcad | entirely |
| 01:04.17 | IriX64 | ty |
| 02:01.26 | IriX64 | ki6igj: are you a serious user of brlcad? |
| 02:03.32 | IriX64 | joevalleyfi: how about you, I haven't seen you two around here before, but i'm sure all are welcome to participate. |
| 02:14.40 | IriX64 | don't mind me i'm the self appointed clown of the channel, not to be taken seriously. |
| 03:42.37 | IriX64 | mmmm my mug has no handle :) |
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| 18:11.00 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:21.15 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos <---- too bad theres no hit counter on that thing, I'd know if anybodys interested :) |
| 18:24.41 | IriX64 | draws to the screen much faster if i zoom out the drawing, I ve found, makes sense only one image to contend with |
| 18:41.53 | IriX64 | heh ty |
| 18:50.01 | IriX64 | heh have a look |
| 18:58.20 | IriX64 | is there really a need for the traditional frame bufffer? |
| 18:58.28 | IriX64 | err buffer |
| 18:59.17 | IriX64 | doesn't hurt anything why not right? |
| 19:00.09 | IriX64 | back to lurk |
| 19:00.14 | IriX64 | err work :) |
| 21:01.04 | IriX64 | brlcad: which method is right? the macro or the file badmagic.c? (the ptr alignment check im talking about) |
| 21:04.09 | IriX64 | i went with size_t but am unsure. |
| 21:46.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/418862 <=== have I reported this already? (have both X and ogl here) |
| 22:03.17 | IriX64 | ermf back to the compiler wars ;) |
| 22:07.11 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/418891 <=== brlcad, are these ones benign too? |
| 22:35.58 | brlcad | the first is already fixed |
| 22:36.24 | brlcad | the second is entirely benign and not our code to care about |
| 22:39.26 | IriX64 | ty for the comback |
| 22:39.34 | IriX64 | comeback :) |
| 23:41.00 | IriX64 | help me out here who came first the framebuffer lib or the display manager lib? |
| 23:41.46 | brlcad | framebuffer iirc |
| 23:42.44 | IriX64 | so dm is in error? |
| 23:42.52 | IriX64 | err conflict |
| 23:45.31 | brlcad | well, they just both have the same named functions, and you're using a set of compilation options that makes that an error |
| 23:45.42 | brlcad | easily fixed by just renaming one or turning off debug |
| 23:46.09 | brlcad | it's already changed in the sources to accommodate |
| 23:46.23 | IriX64 | so thats it, sigh im so innocent when it comes to this stuff... ty brlcad |
| 23:53.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/419015 <=== so if i turn debug off this one should go away? |
| 23:55.22 | IriX64 | never mind |
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| 14:40.00 | ``Erik | http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php |
| 14:41.52 | brlcad | hehe |
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| 19:19.44 | IriX64 | brlcad, i haven't tried building adrt/rise yet, is are there any caveats, the docs indicate it might build if i get sdl installed properly. |
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| 19:40.06 | brlcad | IriX64: you're welcome to try, but my guess would be about a 5% chance that it'll work for you |
| 20:25.06 | IriX64 | ahhh the light dawns on me, you intentionally bomb to protect the data base is that it? in ckmagic macro i mean. |
| 20:30.27 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/420049 <---- this is the result of moving that "default" label to the end of the case satemnet in magic.c did |
| 22:11.05 | IriX64 | man FB_MAGIC is hard coded... |
| 22:12.31 | IriX64 | but magic.c is not the real problem is it? |
| 22:16.37 | brlcad | depends what you're talking about, but no, magic shouldn't be a problem at all |
| 22:17.01 | brlcad | and yes, we intentionally bomb to protect the database .. i believe i said that several times |
| 22:17.14 | IriX64 | looking for the master table of magic numbers... is there one someplace? |
| 22:17.46 | brlcad | src/libbu/magic.c |
| 22:18.03 | IriX64 | thank you man |
| 23:26.15 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/420211 |
| 23:27.19 | IriX64 | compiles but untested..... yet :) |
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| 00:38.12 | rdvon | what is this brlcad? |
| 00:38.31 | rdvon | ... |
| 00:38.41 | rdvon | i cant join any other channels!!! |
| 00:38.48 | rdvon | ...ugh... |
| 00:39.01 | rdvon | well, this sux |
| 00:39.19 | rdvon | maybe this app is worth talking about... it is 3d i presume. |
| 00:39.23 | rdvon | better the blender? |
| 00:39.32 | rdvon | thats what i use |
| 00:39.37 | rdvon | blender.org |
| 00:39.46 | rdvon | :D |
| 00:39.56 | rdvon | ok, dont talk |
| 00:39.56 | rdvon | haha |
| 00:40.00 | rdvon | bye! |
| 00:41.40 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
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| 02:16.28 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: stash argv[0] |
| 02:16.44 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: emphasize any errors, separate out result. |
| 02:19.26 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/Makefile.am: encourage finding init.tcl, set TCL_LIBRARY |
| 02:24.54 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ampi.tcl ami.tcl): |
| 02:24.54 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: the script wasn't correctly parsing multiple directory paths and also similarly |
| 02:24.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: did not function with a distcheck or other compilation out of place. It still |
| 02:24.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: has a problem if it cannot write to the source dir since the index is created |
| 02:24.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: where the sources files are. |
| 02:36.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: |
| 02:36.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: add support for running successfully from a distcheck and identifying the tcl |
| 02:36.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: resources. also set tcl_library so that init.tcl is identified. add a |
| 02:36.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: tclcad_tcl_library() routine for debug printing of what tcl_library is set to. |
| 02:36.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: now only appends to auto_path if the dirs exist. |
| 02:36.49 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: declare tclcad_tcl_library() |
| 03:38.17 | IriX64 | heh |
| 03:38.39 | IriX64 | trying my hand at gcc-4.3 |
| 03:40.25 | IriX64 | brlcad has been busy :) |
| 03:41.32 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/comb.tcl: text widget option -tab is now an illegal abbreviation for -tabs (as of tcl 8.5). Changed -tab to -tabs. |
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| 05:44.14 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/420507 |
| 06:33.07 | IriX64 | egg on my face ... mea culpa |
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| 13:02.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/html_library.tcl: 8.5 now seems to use -tabs for text widgets instead of -tab |
| 14:16.38 | clock_ | Is there some software that produces a metric thread for BRL-CAD? |
| 14:16.54 | clock_ | Where I would say like 40mm of M5 thread? |
| 14:17.36 | brlcad | hm, not really |
| 14:17.54 | brlcad | you could do the math and use the pattern tool fairly easily, but it'd be a bit fugly |
| 14:18.00 | clock_ | is it theoretically possible to produce a thread from BRL-CAD primitives without approximation? |
| 14:18.33 | brlcad | yes, intersecting tori and/or pipe sections |
| 14:18.57 | clock_ | how can a thread be done this way? |
| 14:19.27 | clock_ | I can't imagine |
| 14:19.49 | brlcad | the easiest way is to subtract a winding pipe from an enlarged cylinder iirc |
| 14:20.04 | clock_ | so it reduces down to modelling a coil spring? |
| 14:20.09 | brlcad | basically |
| 14:20.23 | brlcad | since it's subtracted and tightly fit, you end up with a thread |
| 14:20.31 | clock_ | and coil spring is a pipe, where the centerline is a helix? |
| 14:20.54 | brlcad | there's a few threading patterns you can't create that way, but in general, it'll do basic bolt threadings |
| 14:21.42 | brlcad | yes, basically |
| 14:21.56 | clock_ | is it possible to specify a helix for the pipe primitive directly? |
| 14:25.37 | brlcad | if you use a pipe, it's manual specification of the winding |
| 14:25.54 | brlcad | using the pattern tool with half-tori would probably be easier |
| 14:26.21 | clock_ | but half-tori are just an approximation of a helix, aren't they? |
| 14:34.59 | brlcad | depends on the helix |
| 14:35.32 | clock_ | now I am talking about spiral spring |
| 14:35.52 | clock_ | x=cos angle, y=cos angle, z=const*angle |
| 14:35.59 | clock_ | sorry y=sin angle |
| 14:37.30 | clock_ | can such a helix be made from half-tori without distortion? |
| 14:42.38 | brlcad | intuition says yes, but I'd have to test the math out on paper, or just try it |
| 14:42.54 | clock_ | my intuition says that no |
| 14:44.19 | clock_ | can I generate points on a spiral and then tell BRL-CAD to connect them with a pipe? What interpolation does BRL-CAD do? |
| 14:44.38 | clock_ | bezier curve? b-spline? NURBS? |
| 14:46.01 | brlcad | "can I generate points on a spiral and then tell BRL-CAD to connect them with a pipe?" => no, that's not how pipes are specified |
| 14:46.18 | brlcad | they're specified as points and bend radii |
| 14:46.35 | brlcad | volume III covers an example or two |
| 14:47.34 | clock_ | the bend radii are specified in the points? |
| 14:47.53 | clock_ | i. e. do I have 4 points and 4 radii, or 4 points and 3 radii? |
| 14:49.09 | clock_ | or one could approximate the spiral from a set of circular slices, which would be stacked excentrically, the next one always rotated a bit. |
| 14:49.35 | clock_ | and then ask BRL-CAD to put a slanted cylinder between the slices. Can I have slanted cylinders? |
| 14:51.08 | brlcad | heh, sure |
| 14:51.21 | brlcad | though that's a piecewise approximation |
| 14:51.49 | brlcad | piecewise torii would be better still if cylinders worked |
| 14:52.05 | clock_ | actually the shape of the thread could be programmed by using different oval than circle |
| 14:52.07 | brlcad | since they can match the radius of the shaft being sliced |
| 14:52.47 | clock_ | I guess if one converted the thread profile into polar coordinates, he would directly obtain the shape that needs to be stacked. |
| 14:53.28 | clock_ | With pipes, do I have 4 points and 4 radii, or 4 points and 3 radii? |
| 14:54.23 | brlcad | i have no idea what/which points you're referring to there to answer that correctly |
| 14:54.35 | clock_ | the points and radii you mentioned |
| 14:54.36 | brlcad | did you read the tutorial? |
| 14:54.38 | clock_ | no |
| 14:55.19 | clock_ | actually how one can make animation where something changes in the scene? |
| 14:55.50 | clock_ | an animation that is not merely a flythrough of a static scene, but a scene where's something dynamically moving withing the scene? |
| 14:56.00 | brlcad | you can either script and dynamicly change, or use "joints" |
| 14:56.08 | clock_ | joints? |
| 14:56.14 | brlcad | there's a joint primitive |
| 14:56.27 | brlcad | it's a poor-man's constraint system |
| 14:56.38 | brlcad | for simple movements |
| 14:57.00 | clock_ | is the joint something like a hinge? |
| 14:57.16 | brlcad | a hinge could be a joint, but joints are more generic |
| 14:57.51 | brlcad | it's what's used in our animations where a tank maybe drives down a street, rotates a turret, fires, etc |
| 14:57.53 | clock_ | so if I want 2 cubes, one stays and the other is approaching the first one, how many joints do I use and where do I put them? |
| 14:58.07 | clock_ | never seen an animation of a tank in BRL-CAD |
| 14:58.15 | clock_ | just the Stryker picture do you have public animations? |
| 14:58.25 | brlcad | ah, true .. i suppose they're not on the site |
| 14:58.35 | clock_ | they are secret and cannot be released? |
| 14:58.44 | brlcad | no, just not readily available |
| 14:58.57 | brlcad | I mean I have a whole drawer of tapes if you want to come on over ;) |
| 14:59.07 | clock_ | punch tapes or magnetic tapes? |
| 14:59.16 | brlcad | heh, vhs |
| 14:59.22 | brlcad | and a few betamax |
| 15:00.01 | brlcad | some were direct-to-tape, so they'd need to be digitized, others have a digital copy somewhere of the animation .. would have to hunt a bit |
| 15:00.08 | clock_ | nice |
| 15:00.14 | clock_ | what do you have? |
| 15:00.22 | clock_ | tanks, what else? |
| 15:01.07 | brlcad | of the releasable stuff .. mm, some missiles flying over terrain |
| 15:01.36 | brlcad | all made quite a long while ago, and all just thrown together for a particular pupose |
| 15:01.49 | brlcad | animation isn't really a strong point or high/frequent demand item |
| 15:02.01 | brlcad | most of the tools for working with animations are a pita |
| 15:02.32 | brlcad | really needs someone to revamped it all, new interface |
| 15:02.36 | clock_ | For DIY instructions, animation can be very helpful. |
| 15:03.41 | clock_ | Have you seen already this? http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php |
| 15:04.00 | clock_ | It already gives people much better impression what shape Ronja actually has, than just some real installation pictures from a roof. |
| 15:05.03 | brlcad | yep, love it |
| 15:07.23 | clock_ | thanks |
| 15:07.42 | clock_ | do you think it actually helps over series of real-life pictures? |
| 15:07.55 | brlcad | actually, yeah, I think it does |
| 15:08.17 | clock_ | even better would be a video in the style of the LEGO kit instructions |
| 15:08.37 | clock_ | like Ronja in various stage of completion, where each stage would be turned once around so you can get an idea how it's put together |
| 15:08.41 | brlcad | now to model the building/rooftop/whatever that it attaches to, then the city that the building is in, then the remove transmitter/receiver.. ;) |
| 15:09.25 | brlcad | ah yes.. I should show you the tank video.. the tank is "assembled" in pieces with portions dropping in from the sky |
| 15:09.41 | clock_ | wow |
| 15:09.43 | clock_ | LEGO tank |
| 15:10.07 | brlcad | the suspension system, the engine, the fuel/wiring, the crew, the body/armor, the turret |
| 15:10.37 | clock_ | and then a rocket is fired at the tank and the tank disassembled, with pieces falling from the sky? |
| 15:10.41 | clock_ | The crew, the...? ;-) |
| 15:10.50 | brlcad | ``Erik: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/pearls/ |
| 15:11.51 | clock_ | do you have it in VHS or as digital data? |
| 15:12.12 | brlcad | definitely vhs, dunno about digital |
| 15:12.29 | clock_ | do you have a VHS player and a video capture card? |
| 15:12.32 | brlcad | there are intentions to digitize them sometime anyways, just need to gather the equipment |
| 15:13.10 | brlcad | maybe something to give to a summer student |
| 15:15.11 | clock_ | If I have a thousand little cylindrical slices stacked, does it slow down BRL-CAD? |
| 15:15.47 | clock_ | Does BRL-CAD have some clever efficient algorithm to actually deal only with those slices that are close to the ray fired? |
| 15:18.47 | brlcad | there is spatial partitioning to keep things rendering quickly |
| 15:19.05 | clock_ | something like a 3D tree? |
| 15:19.09 | brlcad | though there's limits to what is possible.. it will invariably slow down some as more primitives are added |
| 15:19.16 | brlcad | yes, very much a 3D tree |
| 15:19.39 | brlcad | hybrid bsp tree of sorts |
| 15:19.49 | clock_ | so the creator of the model doesn't have to bother if he needs a lot of primitives? |
| 15:20.33 | brlcad | depends, like I said there are limits |
| 15:20.46 | brlcad | and pathalogically poor construstruction hierarchies |
| 15:21.13 | brlcad | e.g. if you just union 10,000 primitives, that's going to hit a limit |
| 15:21.47 | brlcad | if there's a logical grouping, or ways to reference instead of replicate, that will help |
| 15:25.48 | clock_ | if I do a brick, group it with mortar, then group a row of bricks and group a column of rows, and end up with 10,000 bricks, that's OK? |
| 15:26.10 | brlcad | yeah, that should be fine |
| 15:26.15 | brlcad | preferred even |
| 15:26.33 | brlcad | just not 10k bricks all grouped into one object |
| 15:26.51 | brlcad | there's a practical limit per-object to the number of members in a combination |
| 15:27.09 | brlcad | and a counterpoint practical limit to how deep that hierarchy should get |
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| 18:03.29 | ``Erik | /t new unified physics model: "Beer is good." |
| 19:07.02 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-97.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:33.58 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/421309 brlcad, is this me or you? been fighting it for a while. |
| 19:37.22 | IriX64 | ``Erik shouldn't that be bier :) |
| 19:43.03 | ``Erik | huh, broken tcl build... hain't seein' that on any other platforms to my knowledge o.O |
| 19:43.34 | IriX64 | ty man sigh it *used to work :) |
| 19:45.07 | ``Erik | you don't want to hear this... but maybe try doing a "make clean", then build... |
| 19:45.29 | IriX64 | way ahead of you :) |
| 19:45.34 | IriX64 | trying distclean |
| 19:46.05 | ``Erik | distclean will purge the configure generated files |
| 19:46.17 | ``Erik | are you working out of CVS, or the tarball? |
| 19:46.21 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad < === if you want to see terra (rt bombs on it but it extracts) |
| 19:46.25 | IriX64 | tarball |
| 19:46.41 | ``Erik | might as well just delete the tree and re-extract, no point in 'mortal users' doing distclean |
| 19:46.54 | IriX64 | heh ill try that |
| 19:47.24 | IriX64 | when i screw something up i screw it up good eh ;) |
| 19:47.55 | ``Erik | of course, if you extract it fresh and it fails, that obviously means you did something to break your environment... :) |
| 19:48.30 | IriX64 | was playing with tcl/tk 8.5 those are now going bye bye |
| 19:48.36 | IriX64 | 8.5a5 |
| 19:48.38 | ``Erik | <-- has seen people argue that before *shrug* :) |
| 19:48.59 | IriX64 | i don't argue ``Erik. |
| 19:49.27 | ``Erik | 8.5a5 is the tcl/tk version in cvs at the moment I think... the tarball should have come with 8.4 |
| 19:49.51 | IriX64 | talking system library ``Erik |
| 19:50.41 | ``Erik | ok, if you have issues binding to the system lib, there may be an API difference or internal behavior that'd cause naughtiness... if you see that, your best bet is to use --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build to use the included versions :/ |
| 19:51.08 | IriX64 | ty |
| 19:52.25 | IriX64 | probably a conflict |
| 19:52.57 | ``Erik | perhaps, or a broken system tcl... or *shrug* it may be worth looking into once things settle down a little :) |
| 19:53.22 | IriX64 | i'm back where i wass if it builds ill let you know |
| 20:06.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: subtract the "dry" run from cpu times for the "speedup" measure |
| 20:08.01 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: a couple notes after meeting with twingy (adrt/libtie author) |
| 20:10.22 | IriX64 | so when is brlcad going to ship with a new os to run it on :P |
| 20:32.46 | IriX64 | libbu is building |
| 20:34.36 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/421416 <--- not a bug, just if you're interested |
| 21:04.51 | ``Erik | um, if you want an OS where BRL-CAD works dandy without issue, feel free to download linux or freebsd, they can both be legally procured free of charge (and with minimal license constraint) and are OS's the developers actually touch... |
| 21:11.06 | IriX64 | when you get brlcad ported to a pm app let me know :P |
| 21:13.04 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/421484 <----- where do i find out what this errno means? |
| 21:13.57 | IriX64 | mmmm might still be me, don't jump the gun. |
| 21:19.30 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/421492 <---- something wrong here? |
| 21:35.18 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/421506 < --- I just did this to tcl and tk checklibs is my logic flawed? |
| 21:37.21 | IriX64 | says it'll build it :) |
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| 22:19.20 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 22:22.32 | IriX64 | ~seen valarq |
| 22:23.11 | ibot | valarq <i=vq@90-225-114-111-no122.tbcn.telia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 189d 3h 45m 15s ago, saying: 'you're filling my 0.5TB raid in my mailserver :P'. |
| 22:23.11 | IriX64 | mmm is this supported? |
| 22:24.04 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:29.19 | IriX64 | farkles....error12 |
| 22:29.42 | IriX64 | ampi.tcl, i wonder |
| 22:30.42 | IriX64 | pkgindex.tcl |
| 22:36.08 | IriX64 | nap time:) l8r |
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| 00:09.15 | IriX64 | good ole make -i |
| 00:09.41 | IriX64 | ill figure tclscripts out later :) |
| 00:14.40 | IriX64 | Tim Myers? are you the Tim Myers from weston road in Toronto? |
| 00:14.54 | IriX64 | how you been? |
| 00:16.06 | brlcad | you can be so random |
| 00:16.23 | IriX64 | why tclscripts are a pita :) |
| 00:16.37 | IriX64 | not random |
| 00:17.11 | IriX64 | joevalleyfield? question stands. |
| 00:20.18 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:20.32 | brlcad | Mario? ar you the Mario from Mario Bros.? Do you work for Nintendo? |
| 00:20.50 | IriX64 | heh yes actually have you seen luigi? |
| 00:21.11 | brlcad | he's tied up in the back room |
| 00:21.20 | IriX64 | to the typer i suppose |
| 00:21.20 | poolio | ah what? |
| 00:22.12 | louipc | no it's Mario Lemieux |
| 00:22.19 | IriX64 | But Tim i actually know... |
| 00:22.20 | louipc | (the better) |
| 00:22.28 | IriX64 | heh |
| 00:22.34 | brlcad | he's not the tim you know, k? |
| 00:22.37 | IriX64 | sore knees and all huh? |
| 00:22.41 | IriX64 | k |
| 00:25.06 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/Makefile.am: don't include the include dir because it's now a SUBDIR, otherwise distcheck whines |
| 00:25.36 | IriX64 | brlcad man it's after hours :) |
| 00:26.04 | IriX64 | ahh i see the effort that never sleeps ;) |
| 00:27.28 | IriX64 | well the exe's are installing |
| 00:28.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): |
| 00:28.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: the work is never done. clean up the build specification for tcl/tk so that |
| 00:28.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: other targets like install, distclean, distcheck, and even uninstall (which |
| 00:28.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: tcl/tk bastages don't provide themselves) now work. have to expand the unix |
| 00:28.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: subdir to appease distcheck success. |
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| 01:52.15 | IriX64 | whether to link against the opengl library=yes, whether to build against opengl = no :) |
| 01:52.37 | IriX64 | - :) |
| 01:53.59 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, are you compiling brl on irix? |
| 01:54.33 | IriX64 | my system is not irix, sorta a strange beast which is why i don't file formal bug reports |
| 01:55.24 | IriX64 | 80% of the bugs are probably due to my strange environment |
| 01:55.41 | IriX64 | but every once in a while its due to brlcad code |
| 01:55.54 | IriX64 | and brlcad said he wanted to know either way |
| 01:58.38 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD: are you a developer or user? |
| 01:59.47 | IriX64 | or a tinkerer like me :) |
| 02:00.23 | bjorkBSD | tinkerer. |
| 02:00.29 | bjorkBSD | do i sound *anything* like a developer?! |
| 02:00.44 | IriX64 | heh does it compile on your system? |
| 02:00.57 | bjorkBSD | i only play with it on bsd. |
| 02:01.05 | bjorkBSD | my irix box still lacks a head so i haven't tried it there yet. |
| 02:01.46 | IriX64 | ahh I see the nick interested you? |
| 02:02.05 | IriX64 | fellow user and all that, sorry don't know irix from beans |
| 02:02.21 | bjorkBSD | ah. |
| 02:02.56 | bjorkBSD | what oddment do you use then? |
| 02:02.56 | IriX64 | i know there are irix binaries though, probably so do you |
| 02:04.02 | IriX64 | oddment? you mean my system?= Cygwin |
| 02:04.07 | bjorkBSD | oh i see. |
| 02:04.18 | bjorkBSD | but brlcad runs on windows. |
| 02:04.20 | bjorkBSD | i'm sure you knew that :) |
| 02:05.11 | bjorkBSD | binary version. |
| 02:05.20 | IriX64 | have that prefer this |
| 02:05.59 | IriX64 | have you seen the examples rendered on this little system? |
| 02:06.43 | bjorkBSD | yes i've seen 'em. |
| 02:08.00 | bjorkBSD | see before i started on this misadventure, i thought 3d cad was gonna be a piece of cake |
| 02:08.11 | bjorkBSD | i just couldn't figure out how to put my room into it... |
| 02:08.30 | bjorkBSD | and then i read someplace that i had to know how to sketch decently. i was mortified. |
| 02:08.46 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 02:47.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (48 files in 48 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 02:47.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: restructure library linkages so that brl-cad libraries no longer list their |
| 02:47.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: dependencies as a LIBADD. dependencies are moved into configure.ac and provided |
| 02:47.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: via _LIBS variables so that they are specified at link time. this supports |
| 02:47.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: hybrid static library compilation as well as other more varied mixture |
| 02:47.35 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: configurations. use the new _LIBS variables throughout. probably want to |
| 02:47.37 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: re-combine them later into a single symbol name per library but this will |
| 03:14.39 | deltazap | it's bad because i sat with autocad today to bang out a design so that i could take it to a metal shop to be made |
| 03:14.56 | deltazap | it was actually easier for me to use brlcad to make a model first :X |
| 03:15.18 | deltazap | now i'm just going to convert the database and markup with dimensions |
| 03:17.17 | bjorkBSD | inneresting |
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| 03:54.43 | zapp | whoa |
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| 05:16.24 | IriX64 | Maloeran: interested in a thread count? www.irix64.spaces.live.com |
| 05:16.48 | IriX64 | trying for 15000 next :) |
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| 05:35.21 | cadguy | Evening. Anyone know what the status of the CVS repository is? |
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| 09:36.56 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: fftest needs libm |
| 09:42.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: get rid of fmax() and use V_MAX() instead |
| 10:28.12 | clock_ | brlcad: thanks for the extra button. |
| 10:28.21 | clock_ | When is the next release? :) |
| 10:28.29 | clock_ | I think that's gonna make the work much easier. |
| 13:00.54 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 13:20.42 | brlcad | hopefully today! |
| 13:20.52 | brlcad | i'm seeing green lights across the board |
| 13:21.00 | brlcad | doing run-time testing now |
| 13:21.01 | clock_ | brlcad: across the board? |
| 13:21.22 | clock_ | sound like seeing a ship coming while paddling on a surfboard |
| 13:21.31 | brlcad | I test compilation and run-time functionality across several platforms |
| 13:21.34 | clock_ | green lights are the left side or the right one? |
| 13:21.45 | brlcad | when they all seemingly "work", it's "green across the board" |
| 13:22.21 | clock_ | aha like in a train control centre? |
| 13:22.36 | brlcad | yes |
| 13:23.26 | clock_ | that means 7.x.y is going to appear on the sourceforge download page? |
| 13:30.12 | ``Erik | 7.10.0, and once he finishes his bench runs I'd hope... |
| 13:39.17 | brlcad | bench is already green |
| 13:39.21 | brlcad | i'm to mged testing |
| 13:42.36 | clock_ | bench is already green |
| 13:42.46 | clock_ | sounds like a pub visit that included vomiting |
| 13:43.13 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 13:50.24 | bjorkBSD | disGUSTING clock_ |
| 13:56.44 | deltazap | when i get more time, i think i'm going to try to put together a MacPorts for brlcad |
| 13:57.06 | deltazap | i...uh...mean...if i get more time |
| 13:58.57 | ``Erik | should be reasonably easy, osX is one of the primary dev platforms |
| 13:59.18 | deltazap | yeah, i was surprised that there wasn't a MacPort already |
| 13:59.22 | brlcad | mmmacports.. good stuff |
| 14:00.24 | deltazap | it's the easiest way to get most gnu utils |
| 14:06.09 | ``Erik | once gnucash w as in macports, I dropped fink and totally migrated :) |
| 14:08.08 | deltazap | fink just never really seemed right |
| 14:09.09 | clock_ | mac maniacs always say everything on mac is perfect |
| 14:11.16 | ``Erik | not perfect, just a lot better than anything else :D |
| 14:11.16 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 14:14.00 | deltazap | linux zealots tell people to fix the software themself when there's a bug report |
| 14:14.04 | deltazap | *ducks* |
| 14:15.43 | clock_ | yeah instead of doing their homework and fixing bugs which they themselves created ;-) |
| 14:16.21 | ``Erik | http://bash.org/?749223 |
| 14:18.16 | ``Erik | http://bash.org/?749430 |
| 14:18.22 | ``Erik | heheh linux quotes :) |
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| 16:54.37 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com (Feb.21 albumn) |
| 16:57.10 | IriX64 | louipc: neat :) |
| 17:02.16 | *** join/#brlcad TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) | |
| 17:02.35 | TimRiker | hmm.. brlman "for those systems that do not have nroff" is used on debian? |
| 17:04.21 | TimRiker | hehe. "wall" is not "wall" anymore. |
| 17:05.30 | IriX64 | starting one from your distributed files |
| 17:05.40 | TimRiker | brlterm on debian should run x-terminal-emulator, NOT xterm. |
| 17:05.48 | IriX64 | lets see if my bug goes away :) |
| 17:05.53 | brlcad | oop, sorry, reading elsewhere |
| 17:06.47 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782728.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:07.07 | TimRiker | hd and wall need renaming. :) |
| 17:07.13 | brlcad | TimRiker: brlterm? |
| 17:07.41 | TimRiker | in the debian package. starts up an xterm with /usr/brlcad/bin in the path before other things. |
| 17:08.13 | brlcad | ah, sounds like something the guy that made the .deb put together |
| 17:08.20 | TimRiker | I don't use xterm. I use urxvt which x-terminal-emulator would start, but brlterm (the shell script) explicitly starts xterm. |
| 17:08.31 | TimRiker | yeah, the deb needs work. |
| 17:09.57 | TimRiker | where is the tutorial? |
| 17:10.18 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/tri.c: notify if using tri-cache |
| 17:10.21 | TimRiker | what does the windows version look like? does in just install a bunch of separate binaries too? |
| 17:10.25 | brlcad | there are several tutorials on http://brlcad.org/ |
| 17:10.42 | brlcad | as well as cheat sheets, developer guides, etc |
| 17:11.21 | TimRiker | "Introduction to MGED" ? I was expecting a link that said tutorial, or getting started, etc. |
| 17:11.35 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: function prototypes... |
| 17:11.57 | TimRiker | I don't even know what MGED is yet. |
| 17:13.02 | bjorkBSD | heh TimRiker you sound just like me! |
| 17:13.47 | bjorkBSD | but the truth is 3d modeling is a sophisticated dark art. |
| 17:14.00 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: Simple partition list comparison function, reports RMS deviation if it makes sense. Shoot spiral bundles instead of the same ray (should probably be changed to an ortho grid to keep ray density uniform) |
| 17:14.01 | ``Erik | gui frontend for "the system" and modeler |
| 17:14.01 | bjorkBSD | akin to composing music or creating mathematical models :) |
| 17:14.31 | bjorkBSD | the software's just there to enhance the skills you have. |
| 17:15.10 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: use the partition list comparison function instead of blindly printing out the lists |
| 17:16.06 | IriX64 | woe befalls anybody who commits a sin ;) |
| 17:18.05 | IriX64 | isn't that interesting, restarting configure works now. |
| 17:18.08 | brlcad | TimRiker: yes .. particularly confusing as "BRL-CAD" is actually a system of tools and does not (currently) have a unifying interface.. a bazaar of 400 tools and a couple dozen libraries |
| 17:18.26 | TimRiker | ``Erik: yeah, figured that out. my comment was on the brlcad.org home page, it points to MGED but does not explain what it is. |
| 17:18.30 | brlcad | mged is just the predominant gui interface at the moment that most associate with BRL-CAD |
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| 17:19.06 | TimRiker | brlcad: not a problem. same could be said for pbm-tools et. al. |
| 17:19.07 | brlcad | TimRiker: there's lots of "pre-existing" expert knowledge expected frankly that is acquired, expert-friendly per-se |
| 17:19.09 | ``Erik | heh, wha'ts mged stand for again? Monstrosity of a Gui EDitor? O:-D |
| 17:19.33 | brlcad | multiple-device geometry editor |
| 17:20.13 | TimRiker | brlcad: just the home page should show "Introduction to MGED (multiple-device geometry editor)" or similar. |
| 17:20.19 | IriX64 | military groups of excited developers ``Erik :) |
| 17:20.35 | brlcad | TimRiker: heh, the web site needs a lot more than that ;) |
| 17:20.44 | brlcad | very minimal "brain dump" of information |
| 17:20.47 | bjorkBSD | *coughs* |
| 17:20.51 | bjorkBSD | ah yes. the home page. |
| 17:20.54 | bjorkBSD | *coughs* |
| 17:21.26 | TimRiker | hehe |
| 17:21.26 | bjorkBSD | *hides in embarassment* |
| 17:21.33 | brlcad | it's back to being #1 priority after this next release :) |
| 17:23.09 | brlcad | TimRiker: in all fairness, the very first document (Overview of BRL-CAD) did explain what MGED is |
| 17:23.24 | bjorkBSD | is brlcad the oldest 3d cad program. ever? |
| 17:24.16 | brlcad | it's close, but i don't think so |
| 17:24.32 | brlcad | probably the oldest still in use, and certainly the oldest open source cad system |
| 17:24.40 | ``Erik | first line in '79, yo |
| 17:24.47 | TimRiker | brlcad: perhaps. only scanned the intro so far. |
| 17:24.59 | brlcad | I think the magi corp's modeler actually came first |
| 17:25.34 | brlcad | brl-cad does (still) include the very first distributed parallel ray-tracer |
| 17:27.51 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/422731 (don't quite grok this ) |
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| 17:28.54 | ``Erik | erm, it's a test to see if tcl works... why do you need to grok it? |
| 17:28.59 | ``Erik | (part of a test, rather...) |
| 17:29.35 | IriX64 | cause i have a system lib and cant get your file to recognize the fact |
| 17:30.23 | IriX64 | keeps saying try enabling tcl build |
| 17:30.23 | ``Erik | look for the offending section in config.log |
| 17:30.27 | IriX64 | ty i dinna thought of that |
| 17:31.54 | IriX64 | blah, tcl_init returned error |
| 17:32.00 | IriX64 | farkles |
| 17:32.46 | ``Erik | heh... and you got segfaults in libtcl itself a few days ago... seriously, dude, are you sure your system tcl isn't borked? |
| 17:32.49 | brlcad | there's a typo in there too |
| 17:32.53 | brlcad | that is fixed on head |
| 17:33.05 | brlcad | but then you're still not using head |
| 17:33.37 | IriX64 | the seg faults i fixed, now using tcl8.4 |
| 17:33.49 | IriX64 | should work whats the typo? |
| 17:34.08 | ``Erik | bah, libtool is outsmarting itself again, src/adrt/isst/master fails on fbsd, openpty and forkpty are in /usr/lib/libutil.so and it keeps linking src/adrt/libutil/libutil.la :/ |
| 17:34.23 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:34.47 | IriX64 | and i thought my stuff was "fraught" :) |
| 17:36.32 | TimRiker | timr@slop:~$ wall |
| 17:36.33 | TimRiker | wall: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/librt.so.19) |
| 17:36.33 | TimRiker | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:38.41 | TimRiker | so back on the pdp-11 screenshot, what app is running? is that stuff still around? ie could one setup brl-cad on a pdp-11 ? |
| 17:38.44 | brlcad | sounds like the .deb was compiled against an incompatible glibc? |
| 17:38.55 | TimRiker | yep. looks that way. |
| 17:39.47 | brlcad | that screenshot is an old version of "ged", the precursor to mged |
| 17:40.07 | brlcad | i'm not sure anyone has tried in at least 10 years, but yes .. most of the code/pieces to work are there |
| 17:40.27 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754591.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:40.53 | brlcad | probably have issues compiling directly that would need tweaking, but nothing major (mostly adoption / assumption of an ansi-compliant compiler, which pdp-11 didn't have) |
| 17:41.31 | brlcad | TimRiker: but to give you an idea, I have compiled brl-cad under simh (running a bsd variant) |
| 17:41.59 | IriX64 | ``Erik i'm going to fake it out and see what happens |
| 17:42.00 | deltazap | quick question about converting from a g database to dxf |
| 17:42.01 | brlcad | no gui obviously, at least I don't know how to simulate a framebuffer in simh |
| 17:42.37 | brlcad | deltazap: shoot |
| 17:43.42 | deltazap | i don't know if i did it right :P |
| 17:44.13 | deltazap | this is what i typed in "/usr/brlcad/bin/g-dxf -i -oskids.dxf skids.g skids.c > skids.dxf" and it seems like qcad isn't showing anything |
| 17:44.41 | deltazap | but another question, if i'm using the -o switch, i shouldn't need to redirect the stream, right? |
| 17:50.26 | brlcad | doesn't look right |
| 17:50.37 | brlcad | -o skids.dxf and no redirect iirc |
| 17:51.29 | brlcad | crossing the streams would be bad |
| 17:52.59 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096668101.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:53.55 | ``Erik | I've been slimed! |
| 17:54.05 | TimRiker | brlcad: simh does not have gui support in mainstream, but there are patches. what OS did you use? |
| 17:54.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (8 files in 8 dirs): since libutil is forced static, skip libtool and just build a static lib (fixes build issue on OS's where the system libutil is required for python) |
| 17:55.47 | ``Erik | a netbsd iirc |
| 17:55.49 | ``Erik | ? |
| 17:56.31 | brlcad | i played with a 4.3 bsd I ran across, but ultimately went to town with a netbsd |
| 17:56.42 | IriX64 | finally churning a compile |
| 17:56.54 | ``Erik | did you do pdp11? I thought you did a vax |
| 17:57.17 | TimRiker | I fired up unix V5 in simh the other say. (that's version 5 not system 5) |
| 17:57.54 | ``Erik | <-- was having fun with lisp on pdp1 last year :) |
| 17:57.56 | brlcad | did ``Erik: i got even farther with the vax and netbsd |
| 17:58.12 | TimRiker | there are some claimed pdp-1 parts on ebay atm. |
| 17:58.29 | *** join/#brlcad louipc__ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782795.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:58.50 | bjorkBSD | TimRiker, like the on/off switch? |
| 17:59.06 | TimRiker | heh. nope. plugin boards. |
| 17:59.08 | bjorkBSD | i have prime waterfront property to sell to you if you're interested :) |
| 17:59.13 | ``Erik | "honest, this vacuum tube really is from a pdp1!" |
| 17:59.52 | TimRiker | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097918224 for example. |
| 18:00.39 | ``Erik | well, they look like pdp modules |
| 18:00.53 | brlcad | but do they smell like pdp modules |
| 18:00.56 | IriX64 | a tube that looks like a board? neat :) |
| 18:00.58 | bjorkBSD | they look like they were built from a popular electronics article. |
| 18:01.01 | ``Erik | but I already have a computer about as useful as a pdp1 would be |
| 18:01.40 | ``Erik | hehehe, electrolytics were the best, nice big pop :D |
| 18:01.41 | IriX64 | thos are resistors heating your basement |
| 18:01.49 | IriX64 | those too |
| 18:02.14 | IriX64 | all sorts of 5 watt resistors :) |
| 18:02.37 | ``Erik | quarter watt resistors make pretty flashes and "woofs" when you put wall power on them |
| 18:03.42 | ``Erik | solder under wall power is crazy, though, vaporizes some of the metal, the flux goes crazy, and makes a fun little shower of molten/burning material, along with a nice big black mark on the outlet |
| 18:03.58 | brlcad | so that's where henry's been hiding when he plays hide-n-seek |
| 18:04.00 | IriX64 | which pase does that ``Erik :P |
| 18:04.07 | IriX64 | phase too |
| 18:04.40 | ``Erik | regular old 117v 60hz wall socket shtuff, irix, no need to bust open the breaker box and fry yourself on the three-legged stuff |
| 18:05.06 | ``Erik | (was using fine 60/40 electronics solder, though, the skinny stuff) |
| 18:05.22 | IriX64 | heh the 70 requires it had to find it somewhere |
| 18:05.22 | ``Erik | ah, the joys of stupid youth |
| 18:05.49 | IriX64 | developmental youth |
| 18:11.27 | TimRiker | brlcad: hehe. he was hiding behind it just the other day. :) I also have a double rack full of other HP crap^Wstuff |
| 18:11.51 | TimRiker | most of the rest: http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050615_012504 |
| 18:11.51 | TimRiker | plenty in #classiccmp |
| 18:12.33 | IriX64 | 3 board computer cpu,mem,floppy sweet machine |
| 18:14.33 | bjorkBSD | TimRiker, what do these machines do? |
| 18:14.42 | bjorkBSD | consuming 1's and 0's? :P |
| 18:15.57 | ``Erik | mmmm, 1's and 0's, binarybits :) a simpler food then hexadecimal bits, but more filling |
| 18:16.31 | IriX64 | ``Erik, there are less bits how can it be more filling ? |
| 18:17.13 | IriX64 | errr never mind they translate :) |
| 19:20.03 | TimRiker | bjorkBSD: I used a 4 user time shared basic environment on an old HP-2114B system. I could in theory run the same environment on my hardware. There are other HP OSes that can run there too, but my goal is a time shared basic system. |
| 19:22.11 | bjorkBSD | ah okay. |
| 19:23.20 | TimRiker | bjorkBSD: simh will emulate them if you want to get a feel for it. |
| 19:23.29 | bjorkBSD | hmm i see. |
| 19:24.30 | archivist | I sometimes wonder which HP computer the 5420A signal analyser has in the center section |
| 19:25.55 | bjorkBSD | about the only thing that ever seems to get everyone chattering on here's oldhardware and machine/metalwork. |
| 19:26.00 | bjorkBSD | very odd. |
| 19:26.10 | bjorkBSD | ... and rc planes. and 'lectronics. |
| 19:26.20 | bjorkBSD | spheroids? rhomboids? never! |
| 19:28.37 | bjorkBSD | see? i told ya. |
| 19:30.59 | archivist | I just saw the new price in 1978 $29900 |
| 19:33.10 | bjorkBSD | you have any 'scopes? |
| 19:33.21 | archivist | a few |
| 19:33.43 | archivist | mostly Tektronix |
| 19:34.01 | bjorkBSD | analog? |
| 19:34.06 | TimRiker | http://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=16352 <- there's a computer in there? |
| 19:34.21 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/422879 (how now with system tcl (which I do have)) |
| 19:34.58 | archivist | TimRiker, bottom section in that picture |
| 19:35.39 | bjorkBSD | damn you collect expensive toys, archivist. |
| 19:36.18 | archivist | they "were" expensive new, I cannot afford any new HP gear |
| 19:36.53 | TimRiker | no idea. don't recognize that machine. |
| 19:37.24 | archivist | I must pull a pcb or two see if any numbers ring a bell |
| 19:38.19 | archivist | I loads its program from an internal tape drive in the top section |
| 19:39.53 | archivist | the tape drives have died so no longer usable |
| 19:47.29 | archivist | wee it has an internal label stating processor 2105A |
| 19:48.28 | archivist | I left the tape section next door |
| 19:50.26 | TimRiker | 2105A is supposed to be like the 2108A from what I recall. perhaps shorter? http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446 |
| 19:52.35 | TimRiker | inside the front: http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132501 |
| 19:52.48 | archivist | this seems somewhat built around inside the middle section with interface and memory etc |
| 19:53.23 | TimRiker | inside the back; http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132632 |
| 19:53.35 | archivist | could be thats a lot taller |
| 19:53.55 | TimRiker | notice the card slots on front and rear. memory cards go on the front, and i/o cards on the rear. |
| 19:54.14 | TimRiker | the 2112a is similar but taller. Perhaps the 2105 is shorter? |
| 19:54.25 | archivist | heh identical label on rear about which way up |
| 19:54.54 | archivist | another 4 screws.... |
| 19:56.10 | TimRiker | my 2108 has 4 mem boards and a controller. there are higher density mem cards though, so it could have 64k(bytes) with just 2 cards. |
| 19:57.18 | TimRiker | there are pics in the gallery of the both sides of the main board on the 2108a |
| 20:00.54 | archivist | 11 screws 4 card frame 3 in it |
| 20:02.21 | archivist | 64k mem 12747A |
| 20:03.41 | archivist | 2102B mem controller |
| 20:13.54 | TimRiker | mine is a 2102A mem controller. |
| 20:14.32 | TimRiker | 64k? not 32k? that's really 128kb then. |
| 20:17.07 | deltazap | brlcad: i had tried the converter that way, but it actually didn't do anything for me |
| 20:17.07 | deltazap | and i think the qcad demo can't do anything with it.... |
| 20:17.08 | TimRiker | you need some kind of extended mem hardware for that. I don't have any. JayWest would be one to ask. so you've got twice the RAM I have. :) |
| 20:17.08 | TimRiker | archivist: are there i/o cards on the other side? what cards? |
| 20:17.08 | archivist | yes a gpib and an interface and a termination card |
| 20:19.04 | archivist | 1 odd card with 3 74S181 on it and a large ttl etc card underneath the frame (ttl) and a bunch of cards marked with 82s115's |
| 20:19.30 | archivist | and another card marked booster microcode |
| 20:19.44 | TimRiker | ask on #classiccmp and see if anyone there knows. |
| 20:20.12 | archivist | may be a special for the instrument |
| 20:20.20 | TimRiker | perhaps. |
| 20:21.13 | TimRiker | I expect the machine would run the 4 user MSU time shared basic with only a bit of tweaking. tweaking that's not done yet though. |
| 20:21.14 | brlcad | deltazap: "didn't do anything" as in didn't create a file? created an empty file? what was in there? |
| 20:21.20 | brlcad | did it output an error? |
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| 21:13.51 | deltazap | sorry for blinking in and out |
| 21:13.53 | deltazap | when i do "/usr/brlcad/bin/g-dxf -i -o skids.dxf skids.g skids.c |
| 21:14.10 | deltazap | it just says "skids.dxf: no such file" |
| 21:14.35 | deltazap | but that should be the right syntax and switches |
| 21:27.31 | deltazap | hah, oh great :-\ |
| 21:27.42 | deltazap | it looks like autocad 2002 doesn't like my dxf |
| 23:03.49 | *** join/#brlcad TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) | |
| 23:50.35 | brlcad | aha! found and fixed the last remaining tcl bug holding up release |
| 00:04.06 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:08.49 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (incrTcl/itcl/generic/itcl_methods.c tcl/generic/tclProc.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 00:08.50 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: account for a new tcl/itcl interaction bug caused by the upgrade to 8.5, first |
| 00:08.50 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: reported by alice and soon after by john, whereby tcl panics and aborts mged |
| 00:08.50 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: when you call up the combination editor or other incrtcl interface widget. upon |
| 00:08.50 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: further investigation, patches are made to both tcl and incrtcl to 1) not panic |
| 00:08.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: as the check is bogus/inappropriate at that place in tcl (body is empty and |
| 00:08.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: marked as such) and 2) actually provide a compiled body pointer (which is what |
| 00:10.11 | brlcad | woo hoo |
| 00:10.29 | brlcad | that should be fairly stable now |
| 00:12.00 | bjorkBSD | new version coming out? |
| 00:27.43 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 00:28.27 | ``Erik | bjork: that was the "only known showstopper" when I talked to brlcad this afternoon... he's going to run it through the test gauntlet again, if it passes, it's a release... |
| 00:28.49 | ``Erik | so barring issue, tomorrowish |
| 00:28.50 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:30.08 | ``Erik | (mebbe we should set up an omfg real dashboard or something on "that web server", so'z someone can run a script and have all the target platforms report to a central site) |
| 00:36.42 | Twingy | or higher some one from india to do it for 5 cents |
| 00:37.25 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 00:38.03 | Twingy | or rupies |
| 00:38.08 | ``Erik | it's gov't, twingy, why outsource for a fraction of the going rate when you can schlep it off to a contractor for 2x the going rate? :D |
| 00:38.09 | Twingy | or whatever they use for money |
| 00:39.03 | ``Erik | rupee's, yeah |
| 00:40.57 | ``Erik | I'm told that you can buy a house with a 3 car garage and a half acre of land for ~40k less than an hour from st louis... :/ awful tempting |
| 00:41.11 | Twingy | yep |
| 00:41.20 | Twingy | I have a friend a couple hours away |
| 00:41.29 | Twingy | 20 acres for $100k |
| 00:41.50 | Twingy | only down side is if you ever want to move to the coast again you'll never be able to afford it |
| 00:42.02 | Twingy | good place to retire, but bad place to make a living imho |
| 00:42.20 | ``Erik | not retaining the same living style, no |
| 00:42.28 | Twingy | work 30 years on the coast, retire in the mid west as a millionaire |
| 00:42.42 | Twingy | relatively speaking |
| 00:42.48 | ``Erik | heh, perhaps |
| 00:42.58 | ``Erik | but moving to cheapo-land sooner may be beneficial |
| 00:43.12 | ``Erik | give you lots of leeway to try the whole "run my own business" aspect |
| 00:44.02 | ``Erik | since any business we touch would be national if not international, basing in a cheap location is... highly logical :D |
| 00:44.17 | ``Erik | those silly computer geeks and their intarweb |
| 00:44.24 | bjorkBSD | i hear the sahara's pretty darned cheap this time of year ``Erik |
| 00:44.30 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:44.57 | ``Erik | high speed bandwidht is a bitch out there |
| 00:45.14 | bjorkBSD | what? satelite broadband |
| 00:45.16 | ``Erik | also; I'm a little too american to be headin' anywhere interesting, bush fucked things up pretty bad |
| 00:45.26 | bjorkBSD | tell them you're canadian |
| 00:45.29 | ``Erik | satallite has horrible latency, makes online games horrible |
| 00:45.35 | bjorkBSD | they won't know the damned difference. |
| 00:45.39 | ``Erik | hehehe, that's my plan for traveling anywhere outside of north america |
| 00:45.45 | ``Erik | "wots dees aboot, eh?" |
| 00:52.16 | PrezKennedy | my plan is to speak english the entire time and when someone doesnt understand ill just talk louder until they do |
| 00:52.39 | bjorkBSD | it helps to have duct tape and a wire hanger to hit them with... |
| 00:52.44 | bjorkBSD | to get them to understand. |
| 00:52.59 | bjorkBSD | the duct tape for pulling hairs off :) |
| 00:53.40 | ``Erik | I thought that's why you carried a jug of water and a board... |
| 00:53.41 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 00:57.35 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: probably sometime tomorrow evening.. would tag and post it up now, but I have .. other obligations to attend to till tomorrow afternoon |
| 00:57.48 | brlcad | though sources probably much soonerish |
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| 02:54.44 | deltazap | i'm i doing sometime that's preventing me from importing my database to autocad? |
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| 14:30.21 | ``Erik | "you can't photoshop a personality" |
| 14:33.18 | clock_ | That would be nice, to cover a personality disorder or so |
| 14:34.53 | ``Erik | http://www.dieselsweeties.com/ |
| 14:37.08 | ``Erik | http://bash.org/?749986 |
| 14:44.33 | bjorkBSD | 'disorder' is a much abused word. |
| 14:45.02 | bjorkBSD | infact, the only disorder's the abuse of the word 'disorder'! :P |
| 14:45.29 | bjorkBSD | the voices in my head take umbrage. |
| 14:52.19 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: just turn up the volume in your headphones :) |
| 14:52.43 | bjorkBSD | heheheheh |
| 15:18.24 | ``Erik | or turn up your BAC |
| 15:18.26 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:27.32 | clock_ | tinfoil hat does the job |
| 15:27.44 | clock_ | probably getting a crosstalk from nearby radio transmitter |
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| 17:19.29 | deltazap | grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 17:19.54 | deltazap | "Improper table entry name on *blah* on line 20" |
| 17:23.13 | deltazap | qcad isn't displaying anything and autocad craps out on this dxf that had no errors during conversion |
| 17:26.25 | deltazap | i just don't understand what i'm doing wrong here |
| 17:36.57 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/424248 <-- those two inits not sure here can you help me out. |
| 17:37.00 | archivist | I had to write a dxf cleaner 10 yeras ago, the spec/implementation is a bit broken in places |
| 17:37.43 | IriX64 | librt/wdb_obj.c |
| 17:37.51 | deltazap | that error above is from autocad 2002 |
| 17:37.51 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:37.59 | deltazap | but the file opens just fine in pro/e |
| 17:40.44 | archivist | well is the line a 2003 and up spec line |
| 17:41.07 | archivist | the dxf format changes over the years |
| 17:42.47 | deltazap | ;( |
| 17:43.04 | deltazap | i'm going to bash someone's head in.... |
| 17:56.50 | deltazap | *sigh* this school... |
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| 18:16.45 | IriX64 | mea culpa... i looked it up :) |
| 18:36.01 | deltazap | maybe it's because the demo of qcad won't display my dxf? |
| 18:45.40 | IriX64 | where'd you get the demo? |
| 18:46.08 | deltazap | from qcad's site |
| 18:46.33 | deltazap | maybe there's just something that i'm missing about either the export or qcad |
| 18:49.01 | deltazap | is there a certain way the model has to be orientated in brlcad in order to export to dxf properly? |
| 19:05.18 | IriX64 | are you specifing objects? |
| 19:07.17 | deltazap | yeah, i am, i'm specifing the combination of the model |
| 19:07.24 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/424368 <--- this is what it supports in way of options, but you probably already have this |
| 19:07.57 | deltazap | yeah, i've read over the man page |
| 19:08.19 | IriX64 | and qcad won't load it at all or its farkled? |
| 19:08.29 | deltazap | it loads it, but nothing shows up |
| 19:08.43 | IriX64 | does acad show it properly? |
| 19:09.02 | deltazap | acad? |
| 19:09.17 | IriX64 | thought you had a copy of acad too? |
| 19:09.24 | deltazap | oh, autocad |
| 19:09.29 | IriX64 | yeah |
| 19:09.32 | IriX64 | sorry |
| 19:10.05 | deltazap | the version of autocad we have at the school is autocad 2002, which i just found out that the converter for brlcad outputs the newer style of dxf |
| 19:10.19 | deltazap | so, autocad is out of the question right now |
| 19:10.48 | IriX64 | autodesk must a a way |
| 19:10.51 | IriX64 | have |
| 19:11.20 | deltazap | i'm sure if we had the newest version of autocad it wouldn't be a problem |
| 19:11.32 | deltazap | but pro/e opens the dxf with no problem, even creates the 3d model if i choose |
| 19:11.40 | IriX64 | what are you trying to export? |
| 19:12.12 | deltazap | it's a model of some landing skids i made in brlcad for the model helicopter we use |
| 19:12.29 | IriX64 | windows or unix brlcad? |
| 19:12.33 | deltazap | unix |
| 19:12.57 | IriX64 | any warnings or errors from g-dxf? |
| 19:13.06 | deltazap | none that i saw |
| 19:13.16 | IriX64 | try another model |
| 19:13.29 | IriX64 | one of the examples...m35 or something |
| 19:18.32 | deltazap | i think i just found the problem :X |
| 19:19.06 | deltazap | the OSX version on the sourceforge page...7.6.6 |
| 19:20.50 | deltazap | Changes from release 7.6.8 to release 7.8.0 include: |
| 19:20.51 | deltazap | * fixed g-dxf export compatibility issue |
| 19:20.53 | deltazap | D'OH |
| 19:21.27 | IriX64 | guess the included readme didn't holler loud enough :) |
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| 00:52.47 | IriX64 | Natalies Interactive Ray Tracer :) |
| 02:15.29 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613860.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:23.22 | brlcad | deltazap: you'll find that even versions of autocad don't agree on how they interpret their own standard |
| 02:23.50 | brlcad | the model doesn't have to be oriented in any particular order |
| 02:24.13 | brlcad | i think our coordinate systems are actually identical iirc, but don't quote me on that (it's just a rotation if they're not) |
| 02:32.42 | brlcad | deltazap: the was a big ambiguity in the standard regarding 3dface support (and whether a blessed duplicate fourth vertex was required) that even autocad used to choke on but later fixed .. if you're using 7.8.0+ though, it shouldn't matter |
| 02:33.54 | brlcad | as the code was modified to support old and new 3dface specifications (where it originally only supported new) |
| 02:58.02 | deltazap | strange |
| 02:59.15 | deltazap | i'm going to compile the new version and see if it clears up my issue with at least qcad |
| 03:08.07 | brlcad | latest cvs head should be good now |
| 03:08.25 | brlcad | new source release really is hours away (probably thursday sometime) |
| 03:08.38 | deltazap | haha, nmm |
| 03:08.43 | brlcad | binaries posted through the rest of the week |
| 03:08.59 | brlcad | what version were you using? |
| 03:09.06 | brlcad | s/were/are/ |
| 03:15.31 | deltazap | 7.6.6 is what's on sourceforge for OSX |
| 03:17.45 | deltazap | i built 7.8.4 on my other machine to see how long it would take and it never even crossed my mind that i had an older version on my ibook |
| 03:19.05 | brlcad | ahh |
| 03:19.39 | brlcad | yeah, that version only outputs dxf that newer autocad and other cad packages will read |
| 03:20.41 | deltazap | 7.8.4? |
| 03:24.53 | deltazap | i can understand that 7.6 would also have a problem with older versions of autocad, such as 2002 *sigh* |
| 03:25.48 | brlcad | 7.8.4 should work on old |
| 03:26.20 | deltazap | hmm |
| 03:26.49 | brlcad | anything 7.8.0+ iirc |
| 03:27.55 | deltazap | hmm, ok |
| 03:53.00 | deltazap | ohohoh, one other question: why doesn't the -i switch work with -o? |
| 03:53.37 | brlcad | seriously? |
| 03:54.31 | deltazap | if i did g-dxf -i -o (filename), it claims that (filename) isn't there |
| 03:55.49 | brlcad | did it say "Cannot open output file (filename) for writing" ? |
| 03:56.38 | brlcad | ooh, eek |
| 03:56.42 | deltazap | nope, just that the file didn't exist |
| 03:57.04 | deltazap | it looks like it's ignoring multiple switches |
| 03:57.53 | brlcad | wow, you just found a somewhat prevalent bug |
| 03:57.59 | deltazap | :D |
| 03:58.12 | brlcad | a one-char typo |
| 04:01.30 | brlcad | prevalent == 4 converters |
| 04:02.12 | brlcad | mind if I credit you? |
| 04:03.27 | deltazap | sure :) |
| 04:08.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:08.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: Shawn Baker identified a bug in g-dxf (which in turn was found in g-acad, g-nff, |
| 04:08.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: and g-obj too) where the -i argument ended up gobbling up the following argument |
| 04:08.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: incorrectly. e.g g-dxf -i -o filename.dxf blah.g object would end up in a |
| 04:08.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: filename.dxf error. |
| 04:09.03 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-acad.c g-dxf.c g-nff.c g-obj.c): |
| 04:09.03 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: Shawn Baker identified a bug in g-dxf (which in turn was found in g-acad, g-nff, |
| 04:09.03 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: and g-obj too) where the -i argument ended up gobbling up the following argument |
| 04:09.03 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: incorrectly. e.g g-dxf -i -o filename.dxf blah.g object would end up in a |
| 04:09.03 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: filename.dxf error. |
| 04:09.57 | brlcad | thanks, great lil catch! |
| 04:11.45 | deltazap | no problem :D |
| 04:12.22 | deltazap | glad to put the g-dxf converter through it's paces ;) |
| 04:26.38 | deltazap | doot doot doo, almost done with building 7.8.4 |
| 04:29.33 | Twingy | almost done? you obviously need a slower computer |
| 04:30.54 | deltazap | it's a PPC |
| 04:30.59 | deltazap | Poor Persons Computer |
| 04:31.30 | Twingy | I should have never sold my Mac SE |
| 04:31.40 | Twingy | I still have a 60 MHz PowerPC |
| 04:31.46 | Twingy | I bet mine is slower |
| 04:31.55 | deltazap | oh, yeah, of course it is |
| 04:32.02 | deltazap | mine's a 1.2 ghz g4 |
| 04:32.07 | Twingy | yea, just a tad faster |
| 04:32.09 | deltazap | woo, done |
| 04:32.13 | Twingy | I have 24MB of ram in it |
| 04:32.22 | Twingy | and a 500GB scsi drive |
| 04:32.27 | Twingy | err 500MB |
| 04:35.08 | deltazap | bah! qcad still can't display the .dxf |
| 04:45.14 | brlcad | qcad could have their own independent issues |
| 04:45.16 | brlcad | what about 2002? |
| 04:45.41 | deltazap | don't have it on me right now, will check when i get to campus |
| 04:46.36 | brlcad | iirc, qcad's dxf importer is actually a rather custom subset hack |
| 04:46.48 | brlcad | but it's been a while |
| 04:47.30 | brlcad | vaguely recall someone saying it couldn't parse entity names that had punctuation in them or something like that |
| 04:48.15 | deltazap | hmm |
| 04:48.49 | brlcad | not saying that's a the problem.. one of probably a dozen similar conformance issues |
| 04:49.49 | deltazap | for marking up dimesions, it seems like autocad is about the only options out there |
| 04:49.52 | brlcad | if you can find why qcad chokes, would be good to know to try and accommodate them |
| 04:50.00 | deltazap | yeah |
| 04:50.18 | brlcad | maybe they have a verbose/debug mode or something similar |
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| 09:44.05 | clock_ | What do you think about this logo for the upcoming Twibrigt Labs' monolithic operating system SPAD? http://ronja.twibright.com/spad.png |
| 12:46.44 | deltazap | huh, i should have tested mged last night... |
| 13:22.43 | brlcad | deltazap: why's that? |
| 13:27.13 | deltazap | error with itcl |
| 13:29.44 | deltazap | "Itcl_Init error Can't find a usable itcl.tcl in the following directories: |
| 13:29.49 | brlcad | ah, it found a system tcl |
| 13:29.52 | brlcad | er, itcl |
| 13:30.14 | brlcad | add --enable-itcl-build to configure |
| 13:30.28 | brlcad | assuming you're on head |
| 13:31.25 | deltazap | this error came from launching mged after building the 7.8.4 sources |
| 13:32.39 | deltazap | the error is saying that it couldn't find a system itcl anywhere in /System/Library |
| 13:35.53 | brlcad | oooh, 7.8.4 |
| 13:36.02 | brlcad | that's another ball of wax |
| 13:36.37 | brlcad | with 7.8.4, it would have tried to use the Tcl framework, which won't work with that version |
| 13:36.45 | deltazap | :X |
| 13:36.47 | brlcad | that's all rather changed |
| 13:37.03 | brlcad | add --enable-almost-everything instead ;) |
| 13:37.16 | brlcad | that should make 7.8.4 happy on os x |
| 13:37.26 | brlcad | and --enable-optimized of course |
| 13:37.43 | brlcad | or just wait for the 7.10.0 tarball later today |
| 13:38.07 | deltazap | hmm, alright |
| 13:56.34 | deltazap | alright, time to get running to school for test |
| 15:10.33 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 15:11.35 | ``Erik | y'know, she's pissing me off. I was over at the conf room for the ccb, gave up a couple minutes after 10... came back to the office, decided I was bored so I read email... she scrubbed it this morning. be nice if a little more notice were given, some of us don't read email every hour :/ |
| 15:13.04 | ``Erik | (I'm seeing the /tmp issue, too... I set TMPDIR=/usr/tmp to see if that fixes things, the line in the makefile is: && dc_destdir="$${TMPDIR-/tmp}/am-dc-$$$$/" |
| 15:13.07 | ``Erik | ) |
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| 16:23.18 | deltazap | whoops, wrong window :X |
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| 19:31.22 | IriX64 | 7-10 tarball? |
| 19:31.48 | IriX64 | where? |
| 19:33.33 | IriX64 | not on sourceforge :( |
| 19:36.06 | ``Erik | brlcad is being a lazy turd and chattering instead of releasing... |
| 19:36.29 | IriX64 | heh well it is a chat network |
| 19:36.36 | ``Erik | in person... |
| 19:36.44 | IriX64 | err ok :) |
| 19:38.13 | IriX64 | ``Erik i'm thinking of getting a real system, what would you recommend for a nove *nix user? |
| 19:39.14 | IriX64 | err novice |
| 19:40.30 | ``Erik | uh, system as in OS or hardware? |
| 19:40.35 | deltazap | IriX64: mac :P |
| 19:40.41 | IriX64 | tiger? |
| 19:41.02 | IriX64 | heh how much for a basic good boxen? |
| 19:41.52 | deltazap | a mac mini runs at about $600 now |
| 19:42.01 | IriX64 | thats all? |
| 19:42.12 | ``Erik | I bought my ibook for $700 4 yrs ago |
| 19:42.17 | deltazap | yeah, one of the little tiny machines |
| 19:42.27 | deltazap | and i bought my ibook 2 years ago for 900 |
| 19:42.40 | IriX64 | this is doable |
| 19:42.50 | IriX64 | i never followed the mac line |
| 19:42.52 | ``Erik | not like they're obscenely expensive unless you go high end *shrug* |
| 19:43.02 | IriX64 | don't need high end |
| 19:43.18 | ``Erik | I think the one I'm sitting at now was ~$10k... two 23" cinemadisplays plus all maxed out specs for a dual g5 tower |
| 19:43.24 | deltazap | IriX64: get one of these: http://www.apple.com/macpro/ |
| 19:43.47 | ``Erik | of course, you could just slap fbsd or leenewx on any old functional 'puter |
| 19:43.58 | ``Erik | dual boot your winderz box or something *shrug* |
| 19:44.27 | IriX64 | deltazap isn't that considered high end? |
| 19:44.28 | deltazap | IriX64: if you want to just mess with Linux, try out Ubuntu |
| 19:44.34 | deltazap | yeah :D |
| 19:44.42 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:44.42 | deltazap | but look at it! 8 cores! |
| 19:45.00 | IriX64 | gimme a braek i wouldnt know aht to do with that |
| 19:45.34 | ``Erik | rt knows what to do with that |
| 19:45.37 | deltazap | make -j8 all day |
| 19:45.39 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:45.46 | IriX64 | maybe a gift from the easter bunny :) |
| 19:45.46 | ``Erik | gmake -sj |
| 19:46.28 | IriX64 | don't get me wrong i like my current setup (quite functional) |
| 19:47.40 | IriX64 | -msse3 (ohhhh baby) |
| 19:48.43 | deltazap | so, i can confirm that the dxf converter isn't completely broken, some programs can read files from it |
| 19:48.57 | deltazap | it's just autocad and qcad that are broken :P |
| 19:49.04 | ``Erik | hrm, only $14k |
| 19:50.17 | IriX64 | for that system deltazap pointed me to? |
| 19:50.59 | ``Erik | for a dressed up mac pro |
| 19:51.11 | ``Erik | how I'd probably get one if I made work buy it :) |
| 19:51.15 | ``Erik | tempting... |
| 19:51.22 | IriX64 | wonder if she'd let me undress her :) |
| 19:53.20 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/425903 <-- brlcad being compiled by my strange system :) |
| 19:57.25 | IriX64 | don't get that statement at link time :) |
| 19:58.57 | deltazap | doobie shoobie dooot |
| 19:59.27 | IriX64 | heh living on the fault line (doobie brothers circa 73) |
| 20:05.11 | IriX64 | where can i study up on endianess? |
| 20:05.26 | IriX64 | ahhh never mind ill try thos google thing |
| 20:05.31 | IriX64 | this too |
| 20:09.50 | IriX64 | ahh big-endian is stored the way we write it true? |
| 20:10.22 | IriX64 | ? |
| 20:10.52 | IriX64 | ie 1025 vs 2510 |
| 20:37.51 | ``Erik | big endian is the way youd' think it's stored... the hex value aabbccdd is stored as aa bb cc dd, opposed to dd cc bb aa |
| 20:38.17 | IriX64 | thats what i meant |
| 20:38.37 | ``Erik | the C one-liner for showing how it's stored is something like... |
| 20:38.38 | ``Erik | int main(int argc, char **argv) { union { int v; char c[4]; } v; v.v = 0xaabbccdd; printf("%x is %x %x %x %x\n", v.v, 0xff&v.c[0], 0xff&v.c[1], 0xff&v.c[2], 0xff&v.c[3]); return 0; } |
| 20:38.42 | IriX64 | whose brainchild is little-endian :) |
| 20:38.47 | ``Erik | intel. |
| 20:39.05 | IriX64 | heh |
| 20:39.07 | ``Erik | dec was doing "middle-endian" though |
| 20:39.17 | IriX64 | middle? |
| 20:39.22 | IriX64 | news to me |
| 20:39.26 | deltazap | i'm going to end up marking up this schematic with photoshop :X |
| 20:40.00 | ``Erik | irix64: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness |
| 20:40.15 | IriX64 | dec did 12737 301 777566 and it appeared that way in memory |
| 20:40.27 | IriX64 | loc 1000 etc |
| 20:40.59 | IriX64 | 1000/12737 10001/301 1002/777566 |
| 20:41.45 | IriX64 | just puts an 'A' to the typer :) |
| 20:41.58 | IriX64 | but if you add 137 1000 it loops forever |
| 20:42.22 | ``Erik | pdp11 stored 0x0a0b0c0d as b a d c |
| 20:42.38 | IriX64 | true but it was transparent |
| 20:42.45 | ``Erik | heh, "bad c"... how... fitting? :D |
| 20:42.51 | IriX64 | ie the concole handled it as well as the compiler |
| 20:43.02 | IriX64 | console too |
| 20:43.08 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:43.20 | ``Erik | all machines make it "transparent" when the machien stands alone... it's not until you try to do data exchange between two machines of different endian and/or bit width that issues crop up |
| 20:43.51 | ``Erik | and the intarweb is built big endian, so it's only a bitch for people who touch wrong-endian machines... er... little endian machines... |
| 20:44.00 | IriX64 | not just data exchange such is true for trying to compile on one type for another type |
| 20:44.10 | IriX64 | heh |
| 20:44.54 | ``Erik | um, type casts are handled "intelligently" by the compiler... if you cast a long to a short (provided it fits), it'll handle placing the bytes for you... |
| 20:45.32 | IriX64 | the compiler *should tell you if its a proper cast or not |
| 20:45.51 | IriX64 | brlcad has such as warnings |
| 20:46.20 | IriX64 | initialization from incompatible pointer type |
| 20:46.30 | ``Erik | yes, they'll warn... but they'll figure out where to put the bits... you don't have to do it "by hand" |
| 20:46.40 | IriX64 | true |
| 20:46.54 | IriX64 | if its worth its salt that is some just kaff |
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| 20:48.45 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/425971 <--- speak of the devil |
| 20:49.47 | louipc | I'm not sure what to say about him |
| 20:50.19 | ``Erik | which one? the robot devil? |
| 20:51.11 | IriX64 | she devil....oh yeah ;) |
| 20:52.25 | louipc | fembots |
| 20:53.03 | IriX64 | seven of borg |
| 20:53.39 | ``Erik | six was cooler... (tripping the rift) |
| 20:54.03 | IriX64 | caution 'e' detected... incoming ;) |
| 20:55.09 | deltazap | ``Erik: i thought you were talking about caprica six |
| 20:55.31 | ``Erik | oh, well... yeah, tricia's pretty rockin', too |
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| 21:21.46 | IriX64 | that multiple definition of ogl_open etc thing fixed in 7-10? |
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| 21:29.11 | IriX64 | if memory serves there are two ogl_open routines, in mged and libdm (i think) |
| 21:30.04 | brlcad | libfb and libdm |
| 21:30.11 | IriX64 | ty |
| 21:30.28 | IriX64 | you grep very fast :) |
| 21:30.34 | IriX64 | im slow |
| 21:30.44 | IriX64 | builds ok without opengl though |
| 21:30.57 | brlcad | no grep involved |
| 21:31.09 | brlcad | just know it |
| 21:31.14 | IriX64 | kudos |
| 21:31.14 | brlcad | that code has changed on head too |
| 21:31.19 | IriX64 | ty |
| 21:31.22 | brlcad | no longer named the same |
| 21:31.40 | IriX64 | ty |
| 21:34.15 | IriX64 | i noticed they were different :) |
| 22:17.41 | deltazap | when does the topic change to "7.10 release party"? |
| 22:17.54 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:18.12 | IriX64 | you did it? |
| 22:20.24 | IriX64 | nope :) |
| 22:28.47 | deltazap | the cvs instructions on brlcad.org, are those for head? |
| 22:34.17 | louipc | seems to be |
| 22:35.10 | louipc | sometimes it doesn't update properly for me if I already have cvs sources |
| 22:35.56 | louipc | so I just get them all fresh again. I'm not sure why that is, I've never properly looked into how to use CVS though :/ |
| 22:36.34 | deltazap | i've never really used cvs, only messed with svn |
| 22:36.58 | deltazap | the build i did at home failed :-\ |
| 22:37.05 | louipc | aw |
| 22:37.13 | louipc | I haven't tried for awhile |
| 22:37.31 | deltazap | i'm not sure what exactly went wrong, think it was during the make |
| 22:37.40 | brlcad | deltazap: svn was made to be a cvs replacement.. the syntax is nearly identical |
| 22:37.53 | brlcad | louipc: probably miss "cvs update -dP" |
| 22:38.10 | deltazap | svn is nice |
| 22:38.15 | brlcad | that checks for new directories and prunes old/empty ones (svn does that by default) |
| 22:38.24 | brlcad | svn is nice |
| 22:38.31 | brlcad | we'll move to it soon enough, just not yet ;) |
| 22:38.45 | louipc | cool thanks. I thought co would automatically update o.O |
| 22:38.56 | brlcad | co means checkout |
| 22:39.04 | brlcad | you only checkout once |
| 22:39.07 | deltazap | svn up |
| 22:39.14 | brlcad | from then, you update |
| 22:39.22 | brlcad | cvs up -dP |
| 22:39.38 | brlcad | there are shorthands for all the commands in both cvs and svn |
| 22:39.43 | louipc | ah |
| 22:45.07 | deltazap | brlcad: i found out that g-dxf does ok for conversion, it seems that qcad is the one who's broken |
| 22:45.21 | deltazap | i found a dxf viewer that renders the converted file just fine |
| 22:47.10 | IriX64 | deltazap do you have access to acad dwgs? can you produce a dxf and turn it into a g file? |
| 22:47.59 | louipc | have you seen that? -> http://www.opendwg.org/ |
| 22:48.20 | deltazap | i just have a few dxf's from qcad's examples and they will convert over to brl, but they're a bit weird |
| 22:48.36 | ``Erik | svn was designed to be "pretty darn similar" to cvs... other than the minor caveats (cvs doens't compress by default, you must do -z3 or something.... cvs wants you to give it the -dP for new dir and pruning...)... |
| 22:49.25 | deltazap | louipc: no, i haven't, but i will look |
| 22:49.44 | IriX64 | louipc not a bad idea. |
| 22:50.04 | IriX64 | but i was just looking for the shuttle :) |
| 22:50.20 | deltazap | the only thing that i need autocad for is to attach dimesions onto a schematic so i can send it to a metal shop to be fabricated |
| 22:50.44 | IriX64 | what are you fabricating |
| 22:51.49 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD kinda focuses on engineering analysis, not production or design... so we don't have autocad/pro-e/catia/etc type features |
| 22:53.09 | ``Erik | oh wow, I was cut down to two seconds on my acting debut... at least I got the movie for free, I suppose o.O |
| 22:53.13 | bjorkBSD | deltazap, what do you fabricate? |
| 22:53.13 | deltazap | ``Erik: yeah, i know, but it was much easier to use to make a solid model since it's the only software i had available/knew on monday ;) |
| 22:53.30 | IriX64 | read its a fully enable prototyping environment |
| 22:53.37 | IriX64 | enabled to |
| 22:53.46 | bjorkBSD | too too :) |
| 22:53.52 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:54.01 | deltazap | it's a set of landing skids for model helicopters that i work on at a research lab |
| 22:54.20 | ``Erik | which research lab? |
| 22:54.27 | bjorkBSD | yeah. 'a'. |
| 22:54.29 | ``Erik | if you don't mind asking |
| 22:54.30 | ``Erik | er |
| 22:54.32 | ``Erik | my asking |
| 22:54.33 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 22:54.42 | deltazap | a university lab |
| 22:54.44 | bjorkBSD | it's the deltazapNL |
| 22:55.12 | bjorkBSD | what do they need helicopters for? |
| 22:55.18 | ``Erik | and as you think of things that would make it easier, feel free to implement them... :D if you need pointers on where to look, this is a good place to ask |
| 22:55.23 | deltazap | http://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm |
| 22:55.43 | deltazap | bjorkBSD: autonomous robots |
| 22:55.57 | bjorkBSD | ah |
| 22:56.16 | deltazap | so, we need special landing skids to hold the computers |
| 22:56.45 | bjorkBSD | the skids hold the computers? |
| 22:56.56 | deltazap | yeah, hold on, uploading a picture ;) |
| 22:57.15 | bjorkBSD | a computer-napping 'bot? |
| 22:58.28 | deltazap | http://zap.bonzoesc.net/pics/usl/skids.png |
| 22:58.58 | bjorkBSD | ah |
| 22:59.23 | louipc | neat |
| 22:59.28 | ``Erik | heh, looks like you put the pipe primitive through the ringer :D |
| 22:59.54 | deltazap | ``Erik: it was my friend |
| 23:00.06 | IriX64 | did you do that with brlcad or acad or import or what |
| 23:00.14 | deltazap | i did that in brlcad |
| 23:00.21 | IriX64 | beautifull |
| 23:00.29 | IriX64 | wish i was as talented |
| 23:00.42 | bjorkBSD | i wish i could wish. |
| 23:00.44 | bjorkBSD | *sigh* |
| 23:00.53 | deltazap | IriX64: i've only had about a week of practice |
| 23:00.54 | IriX64 | you can but you still walk :) |
| 23:01.57 | bjorkBSD | what's it gonna say: all i got from brl-cad was this mug |
| 23:02.08 | deltazap | hahaha |
| 23:02.39 | IriX64 | "Thanks for being lots & lots of code brlcad" ;) |
| 23:03.00 | bjorkBSD | to wong foo, no doubt. |
| 23:03.15 | IriX64 | foui lango actually |
| 23:03.16 | deltazap | but, like i said, i need to be able to put dimesions on this to be made |
| 23:03.36 | louipc | - 'your drag alias here' |
| 23:03.37 | IriX64 | isn't there a materials list? |
| 23:04.19 | ``Erik | a few, actually... BRL-CAD stores "GIFT" materials |
| 23:04.27 | deltazap | hmm? |
| 23:05.18 | ``Erik | um, and using that, you can actually compute things lik ethe mass of your model (rtweight) |
| 23:05.33 | ``Erik | might be important for aircraft :) |
| 23:06.11 | deltazap | hah |
| 23:06.13 | bjorkBSD | weight? trivial. it's either lighter or heavier than air :P |
| 23:06.26 | louipc | well you want to make things that fly as light as you can |
| 23:06.26 | bjorkBSD | the matter should be settled with a coin toss. |
| 23:06.31 | ``Erik | heh, does the coin fall or float? |
| 23:06.38 | bjorkBSD | hahah |
| 23:06.48 | ``Erik | last time I checked, most helicoptors and fixed wing craft are a bit heavier than air... |
| 23:06.58 | ``Erik | blimps and zeppelins aren't all that common these days |
| 23:07.01 | bjorkBSD | little bit. |
| 23:07.15 | deltazap | ``Erik: they are, that's why i'm in a rush to get these skids done :P |
| 23:07.41 | bjorkBSD | there's a movie called white diamond about a blimp and it's maker. |
| 23:07.51 | ``Erik | delta: so that's all aluminum and tig welded? |
| 23:08.00 | deltazap | will be when it's done |
| 23:08.07 | ``Erik | cool |
| 23:08.26 | deltazap | the front will have a camera mounted on a pan/tilt |
| 23:08.39 | ``Erik | <-- has done r/c planes, has done a sim for r/c helicoptors, but has only done ground robots |
| 23:08.53 | deltazap | we have those as well |
| 23:08.58 | deltazap | little pain in the... |
| 23:09.13 | ``Erik | and the ground robot was a toy, a lego thing using a 6811 for an undergrad ai class |
| 23:12.32 | louipc | hehe I played with that lego robot kit |
| 23:14.26 | deltazap | ``Erik: the only feature i can think of right now that would be most excellent is tab completion |
| 23:14.44 | louipc | yeah I thought the same |
| 23:20.16 | deltazap | is there a list of materials you can set? |
| 23:20.34 | bjorkBSD | tclsh and wish don't have tab completion either. |
| 23:21.01 | bjorkBSD | maybe it's time to make some noise about that? :D |
| 23:33.51 | IriX64 | actually it's time to change the acoustical model :) |
| 23:35.13 | IriX64 | swing town sounds much better in a concert hall :) |
| 23:38.30 | deltazap | ohhhhhh, it's the shaders listed in the combination editor |
| 23:40.04 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/brlcad <----- project sound |
| 23:43.31 | IriX64 | make clean forgot to flush the toilet :) |
| 23:44.35 | IriX64 | project sound is tied to my motherboard though. |
| 23:47.51 | IriX64 | deltazap, I'm only an Electronics Engineering Technologist, what disipline are you trying for? |
| 23:48.12 | deltazap | mechanical engineering |
| 23:48.21 | IriX64 | how far along are you? |
| 23:48.38 | deltazap | about a summer and a semster away from graduation :) |
| 23:48.52 | IriX64 | haha looking forward to it are you? |
| 23:49.34 | deltazap | very much, but i don't know if i'm going to go for my masters now or just get into open |
| 23:50.08 | IriX64 | masters if i were you (take it from one who wishes he had gone on) |
| 23:50.59 | IriX64 | although life experience counts too |
| 23:57.13 | deltazap | yeah, that's what i'm thinking |
| 23:57.16 | deltazap | it's hard to decide |
| 23:57.32 | deltazap | 2 years of fake student money or start working and get real dollars :D |
| 00:06.27 | IriX64 | as long as your currency isn't blood you'll be alright. |
| 00:08.07 | IriX64 | CCR=? deltazap: |
| 00:08.25 | deltazap | ??? |
| 00:08.38 | IriX64 | yeah you're young ;) |
| 00:09.36 | louipc | credit card? |
| 00:09.52 | louipc | hmmm |
| 00:10.04 | IriX64 | Canadian Continetal Railway ;) |
| 00:10.14 | IriX64 | +n |
| 00:10.56 | louipc | Creedence Clearwater Revival? |
| 00:11.04 | IriX64 | yes |
| 00:11.19 | IriX64 | we are of an age you and i |
| 00:11.39 | deltazap | oh, hahaha |
| 00:11.49 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:12.19 | deltazap | i didn't know you were looking for an answer to a acryonym |
| 00:12.47 | IriX64 | you missed the ? character :) |
| 00:16.53 | IriX64 | I can't beleive it links like that |
| 00:17.15 | IriX64 | wonder what runtime will do :) |
| 00:25.09 | IriX64 | gotta switch to wireless mode l8r folks |
| 00:37.43 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hehe, that's a great idea for a mug ... i like it :) |
| 00:49.22 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014963.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:06.03 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: riker notes that hd and wall conflict with similarly named system tools, consider renaming. love the mug idea from bjork... :) |
| 01:06.21 | bjorkBSD | y/w :D |
| 02:03.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/426312 <---- brlcad for your interest |
| 02:04.15 | IriX64 | dm and fb went by fine ;) |
| 03:24.49 | IriX64 | coutney spears |
| 03:24.56 | IriX64 | err courtney |
| 03:25.21 | IriX64 | rminds me of Rebbecca Lyn Howard |
| 03:25.40 | IriX64 | err reminds me, sigh ill shut up now i can't type :) |
| 03:29.52 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/426390 <-- is this sort of thing usefull in a linker? |
| 03:31.58 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/426399 <--- more of the same but system stuff |
| 03:33.27 | IriX64 | urf --cref failed tho |
| 06:31.15 | IriX64 | :) |
| 13:33.31 | ``Erik | heh, tab completion would go into src/mged, I think all the commands are registered as tcl symbols (so you'd either need to keep a mirror of that structure in like a trie or osmething, or figure out how to interrogate tcl's internal symbol table) |
| 13:34.02 | ``Erik | for geometry, um, the names are retained in the region tree handled in src/librt (um, include/raytrace.h and include/rtgeom.h might be useful) |
| 13:44.14 | brlcad | or see someone else |
| 13:52.22 | ``Erik | heh, which libedit? the netbsd one? the sf one? ... |
| 13:52.46 | ``Erik | and there'll be three warring tribes no matter what interface is used... the emacs users, the vi users, and the 'puny mortals' |
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| 18:45.27 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/427307 <---- milestone |
| 18:47.43 | IriX64 | thanks to ``Erik for turning me on to the file command ;) |
| 18:53.46 | IriX64 | which file(s) do i want off cvs browse to fix that multiple definition error (opengl() i think)? |
| 18:57.41 | IriX64 | bwahhah jove crashed (thats a good thing) |
| 19:21.12 | IriX64 | :( headers still wrong |
| 20:04.30 | IriX64 | http://www.msnusers.com/IriX64sGroup/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1 trying something :) |
| 02:50.26 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014963.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:51.34 | IriX64 | www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad <----- windows archer in action if anyones interested |
| 02:56.45 | IriX64 | check it again :) |
| 02:59.34 | IriX64 | seriously...which filke should i replace..if_ogl.c or dm_ogl.c ? |
| 02:59.40 | IriX64 | file too |
| 03:02.01 | IriX64 | you didn't put the fix on sourceforge? |
| 03:03.31 | IriX64 | ill pastebin the error just a sec... |
| 03:04.41 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/427924 |
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| 04:39.47 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/427977 --cref is starting to work now |
| 04:39.54 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 05:55.55 | IriX64 | sorry man |
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| 12:31.20 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
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| 18:05.23 | IriX64 | further to last night, if you disable opengl the multiple defs go away. |
| 18:24.49 | Twingy | peanut buttah jelly time |
| 18:25.38 | louipc | http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/peanutbutter.html |
| 18:26.20 | archivist | no me |
| 18:26.26 | archivist | nor |
| 18:26.59 | archivist | debian did not like it when I tried |
| 18:29.06 | louipc | hehe |
| 18:43.25 | IriX64 | heh louipc: that could be me :) |
| 18:44.04 | IriX64 | no flash? no disney.com for you :) |
| 18:45.07 | IriX64 | -Map=brlcad.map.... if I get it built i'll e-mail you the map file :) |
| 18:47.24 | IriX64 | Twingy: does gcam have a thread calculator? |
| 18:53.21 | Twingy | no, it doesn't do threading |
| 18:55.07 | IriX64 | how small can you go? |
| 18:55.29 | IriX64 | mm? |
| 18:56.12 | Twingy | huh? |
| 18:56.23 | IriX64 | smallest part you can mill? |
| 18:56.51 | Twingy | 0.00001 inches |
| 18:57.13 | Twingy | or 0.00001 mm if your machine is that accurate |
| 18:57.13 | deltazap | you can mill smaller than a mil :P |
| 18:57.33 | Twingy | my machine is accurate to 0.00003125" |
| 18:57.54 | deltazap | personal or work mill? |
| 18:57.57 | IriX64 | designed just for milling machines? or do you do lathes too? |
| 18:57.58 | Twingy | personal |
| 18:58.10 | Twingy | lathes will come next, you should read the wiki and stop asking :) |
| 18:58.23 | deltazap | :O |
| 18:58.25 | IriX64 | heh i'm illeterate :) |
| 18:58.30 | IriX64 | see :) |
| 18:58.32 | deltazap | how much did that set you back? |
| 18:58.37 | Twingy | you're lazy |
| 18:58.42 | Twingy | $1800 |
| 18:58.46 | IriX64 | that too |
| 18:58.58 | deltazap | that's it? wow |
| 18:59.35 | Twingy | plan to spend another $200 on jigs and end mills |
| 18:59.58 | deltazap | yeah |
| 18:59.58 | archivist | dont confuse accuracy with resolution |
| 18:59.58 | Twingy | and collets etc |
| 19:00.24 | Twingy | archivist, assuming no backlash, it's 0.00003125" accuracy |
| 19:00.34 | deltazap | where did you get that from? |
| 19:00.40 | archivist | lead screw that good? |
| 19:00.49 | Twingy | 1 / (20tpi * 200spi * 8sr) |
| 19:01.36 | archivist | put some independent measuring on it to check |
| 19:01.48 | Twingy | heh, my callipers don't even go that low |
| 19:01.59 | Twingy | they are only good to 0.0005" I think |
| 19:02.17 | Twingy | beyond 0.0001" I could care less what it is |
| 19:02.29 | archivist | your calipers could actually be better than the lead screw |
| 19:03.02 | louipc | you could easily make the app program for even greater precision |
| 19:03.22 | louipc | but the machine might not be able to deal with it heh |
| 19:03.31 | Twingy | when people start using gcam more and make suggests I'll integrate them |
| 19:03.48 | archivist | a bit of optical feedback |
| 19:04.03 | Twingy | no optical encoders on my steppers |
| 19:04.23 | louipc | mayhaps I shall make a pkg for gcam |
| 19:04.30 | archivist | nah on the slides to get the real info |
| 19:05.32 | Twingy | louipc, for what os? |
| 19:06.35 | louipc | archlinux |
| 19:13.09 | louipc | ouch segfault |
| 19:13.53 | louipc | ls |
| 19:13.55 | louipc | oosp |
| 19:14.00 | deltazap | haha |
| 19:14.41 | IriX64 | something I did broke my btclsh still trying to sort it out |
| 19:32.08 | louipc | hmm something is wonky when it tries to install stuff in share/ |
| 19:32.29 | IriX64 | louipc what version? |
| 19:32.34 | louipc | it uses $DESTDIR/$DESTDIR/share |
| 19:32.45 | louipc | 2007.03.23 |
| 19:33.07 | IriX64 | pardon? |
| 19:33.19 | IriX64 | what are we talking here? |
| 19:33.35 | louipc | make DESTDIR=/my/dir/for/pkgs install |
| 19:45.42 | louipc | yeap |
| 19:46.55 | bjorkBSD | brb |
| 19:48.13 | louipc | i'm talking about gcam |
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| 20:13.54 | IriX64 | how do i get around these intentional core dump due to debug flag? will --disable-debug do it? |
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| 20:22.59 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/428764 <--- portion of the map file :) |
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| 20:38.56 | IriX64 | couple a map file with a stackdump and i'll have a clue :) |
| 20:45.35 | IriX64 | http://groups.msn.com/IriX64sGroup/shoebox.msnw <---- playing with groups while i wait, fun stuff :) |
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| 23:02.13 | Twingy | whut |
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| 17:34.32 | IriX64 | a 5hr compile? urf |
| 17:35.31 | bjorkBSD | only 5hrs? :O |
| 17:35.50 | IriX64 | o solo mio :) |
| 17:36.10 | archivist | oil the computer so it goes quicker |
| 17:36.19 | IriX64 | sean@crew.local? |
| 17:36.43 | IriX64 | good girl... have a grease biscuit :) |
| 17:36.57 | IriX64 | that was directed at my computer :) |
| 17:37.38 | archivist | I must grease the brakes on the van it squeeks a bit |
| 17:38.07 | IriX64 | heh slip sliding away archivist :) |
| 17:49.19 | ``Erik | could just pop off those annoying pads to stop the squeak... or maybe you have too much brake fluid, drain it all... :D |
| 17:49.42 | IriX64 | heh the easy way :D |
| 17:49.58 | IriX64 | just don't drive it |
| 17:49.58 | bjorkBSD | stop using the brakes. it's what your feet are for. |
| 17:50.10 | IriX64 | flintstone style? |
| 17:50.10 | bjorkBSD | ... and trees :D |
| 17:50.13 | bjorkBSD | 'xactly. |
| 17:51.01 | IriX64 | must i post this photon map of havoc? (its not finished yet) |
| 17:55.11 | IriX64 | as twingy said i know nothing about global illumination :) |
| 18:02.25 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad if you're curious |
| 18:03.07 | IriX64 | did i post it right this time? |
| 18:05.54 | IriX64 | cleverly designed into each compile, is a good long coffee break, ill be back shortly :) |
| 18:10.40 | *** part/#brlcad ki6ijg (n=wegstar@h69-128-116-234.69-128.unk.tds.net) | |
| 18:31.20 | IriX64 | same url, tell twing i "gave it some light" |
| 18:31.24 | IriX64 | twingy too |
| 18:50.16 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543803.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:52.37 | IriX64 | same url just so you know im not runnning seans binaries. |
| 18:54.18 | IriX64 | was playing with those, just to see :) |
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| 04:50.58 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad <---- made a mess outta my mug :) |
| 04:51.56 | IriX64 | brl-cad albumn |
| 05:10.14 | IriX64 | same url and albumn, freshly built brlcad :) |
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| 09:19.26 | IriX64 | welcome home |
| 09:30.21 | IriX64 | is the car happy to be home |
| 09:31.16 | IriX64 | i renamed badmagic.c to badjuju.c and everythings hunky noe :) |
| 09:31.27 | IriX64 | now too |
| 09:45.39 | IriX64 | nytol |
| 09:47.50 | brlcad | cya |
| 10:19.37 | *** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com) | |
| 12:21.15 | brlcad | away |
| 12:54.59 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: use bu_file_exists() instead of Tcl_FSStat() to avoid getting header define/symbol mixups in tcl headers (that seem to be causing a crash at least on some linux due to Tcl_StatBuf getting written past, wrong size) |
| 13:02.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 13:02.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: remove the call to the private TclInitEncodingSubsystem() call that worked |
| 13:02.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: around a 8.4/8.5 race-condition bug inside Tcl_FindExecutable() whereby mged |
| 13:02.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: would crash. it's not reproduced on a simple test case any more for unknown |
| 13:02.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: reasons. |
| 13:28.50 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 14:01.07 | ``Erik | hum, still no 7.10.0 ? |
| 16:42.10 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos__ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 18:17.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 18:17.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: stash the current configuration args before adding additional ones for the |
| 18:17.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: subconfigures, then restore to the original so recheck configures don't persist |
| 18:17.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: the subconfigure arguments to the top configure (e.g. --disable-shared) |
| 18:23.34 | deltazap | ``Erik: looks like not ;_; |
| 19:00.13 | *** join/#brlcad cad83 (n=46bcbab6@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:14.39 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548759e4.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:57.35 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.170.216) | |
| 20:34.06 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 20:34.06 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 20:35.30 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 20:35.30 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you... | |
| 22:25.54 | IriX64 | ole blue eyes sings "My Way" ... beautifull |
| 23:33.29 | *** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com) | |
| 00:10.22 | IriX64 | ahh a homebody :) |
| 00:10.33 | *** part/#brlcad tedcx (n=root@71.237.138.185) | |
| 00:12.09 | IriX64 | it's too |
| 00:18.42 | IriX64 | 57 minutes 16 seconds, but it completed :) |
| 00:19.49 | IriX64 | now to build another mug, what color please ;) |
| 00:23.27 | IriX64 | you guys should choose a love biscuit for your project you know, something like project KryStal :) |
| 00:37.36 | IriX64 | mmm the x framebuffer comes up but the ogl one does not |
| 00:42.29 | IriX64 | bwaha... it's photon mapping havoc |
| 00:43.57 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/432024 hehehhee |
| 00:48.37 | IriX64 | hot oil for you tonight cassandra :) |
| 00:48.57 | IriX64 | errr maybe warm elctrons |
| 00:49.03 | IriX64 | electrons too |
| 01:09.20 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com brl-cad albumn... Unix high on windows |
| 01:11.28 | IriX64 | man, 5 cygwin dll's and this thing works on my windereze boxen. |
| 01:11.41 | IriX64 | still need an x serv tho |
| 01:13.32 | brlcad | IriX64: you should fix those overlaps |
| 01:14.30 | IriX64 | heh ill put that in a s a tutorial |
| 01:14.35 | IriX64 | as |
| 01:16.55 | IriX64 | gonna transfer that dir to my windows xp-home machine and see if itll come up. |
| 01:17.10 | IriX64 | no cygwin on that machine |
| 01:18.01 | IriX64 | urf bad idea, no xserv either |
| 01:22.05 | IriX64 | sean, i'm running this thing *outside the cygwin environment, and it's sweet. |
| 01:22.55 | brlcad | it would be sweeter if you cleared up the overlaps |
| 01:23.13 | IriX64 | xservs are xservs, anybody with a windows box that has an xserv on it should be able to drop this directory in and run it. |
| 01:23.40 | IriX64 | overlaps there a tool for that which doesn't work yet |
| 01:24.22 | IriX64 | show you a screenshot in a sec... |
| 01:28.14 | brlcad | rtcheck will report on overlaps, and visualize them if run from within mged |
| 01:30.17 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos the brl-cad albumn have a look |
| 01:33.52 | IriX64 | now have a look at the editor (Overlap tool2) |
| 01:54.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (ChangeLog NEWS TODO configure.ac include/config_win.h): final release preparations, update to 7.10.0 |
| 02:00.19 | *** join/#brlcad malcoholm (n=cb6d9f45@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 02:01.14 | brlcad | hellos malcoholm |
| 02:01.25 | brlcad | goodbyes malcoholm |
| 02:01.52 | IriX64 | heh you scared him |
| 02:02.22 | IriX64 | moody too |
| 02:02.53 | IriX64 | those muli-dfines keep my ogl from working |
| 02:03.01 | IriX64 | defines too |
| 02:03.15 | brlcad | seriously.. get .. over .. it |
| 02:03.19 | brlcad | it's already fixed in head |
| 02:03.25 | brlcad | and a release is about to be made |
| 02:03.27 | IriX64 | heh i gripe a lot :) |
| 02:03.32 | brlcad | so you can complain if the latest doesn't work |
| 02:03.48 | IriX64 | seriously how soon? |
| 02:04.01 | brlcad | you did just see the commit, no? |
| 02:04.12 | IriX64 | didn't notice just a sec. |
| 02:04.34 | IriX64 | its there? |
| 02:04.56 | brlcad | what did I just write? |
| 02:05.41 | IriX64 | where sourceforge.net still lists 7.8.4 as latest |
| 02:06.05 | brlcad | i said nothing about sourceforge |
| 02:06.12 | IriX64 | where then? |
| 02:06.25 | brlcad | forget it |
| 02:06.29 | brlcad | just wait for the announcement |
| 02:06.36 | IriX64 | ok ty |
| 02:50.27 | brlcad | source tarball is now uploaded, binaries and e-mail announcements on their way through tomorrow |
| 03:00.27 | deltazap | brlcad: anything that i should know about building it myself? |
| 03:02.43 | brlcad | deltazap: erhm.. dunno |
| 03:02.59 | brlcad | there are a variety of configure options for various situations |
| 03:03.12 | brlcad | default should get you somewhere.. if it doesn't, it's a build bug |
| 03:03.46 | brlcad | this update includes a lot of dependency updates too, so I'm entirely expecting there to be some instability on some environments |
| 03:03.57 | brlcad | not run-time -- compile-time instabilities |
| 03:07.23 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 03:49.03 | IriX64 | jack-104: are you a serious user of brl-cad or like me just a novice? |
| 03:57.14 | ``Erik | heh, moody blues were pretty awesome |
| 04:05.45 | IriX64 | moody blues music is beautiful |
| 04:57.40 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 05:22.38 | IriX64 | best hello world program i ever wrote... and it runs without cygwin1.dll ;) |
| 05:29.56 | clock_ | cygwin1.dll is evil |
| 05:30.18 | IriX64 | heh so is cygcrypt.dll :) |
| 05:30.27 | clock_ | Cygwin detected a version mismatch between various versions of cygwin1.dll - now you need to search your system and delete one of them |
| 05:30.40 | clock_ | very nice if you are doing something that's supposed to work for a layman |
| 05:30.47 | IriX64 | been there done that |
| 05:30.55 | clock_ | like cygwin1.dll couldn't delete itself automatically? ;-) |
| 05:31.14 | IriX64 | should by all rights be back and forward compatible no? |
| 05:31.19 | IriX64 | :) |
| 05:31.23 | clock_ | no it isn't |
| 05:31.32 | IriX64 | i know |
| 05:31.41 | clock_ | if you have Cygwin installed and run a program that's shipped with own cygwin.dll, it blows up |
| 05:31.59 | IriX64 | sadly true, both blow up |
| 05:32.12 | clock_ | if you don't ship a program with cygwin.dll then it doesn't run without cygwin installed and installing cygwin is a major pita |
| 05:32.23 | IriX64 | true |
| 05:32.39 | IriX64 | which is why id like -mno-cygwin to work |
| 05:32.46 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 05:32.52 | IriX64 | :) |
| 05:36.40 | IriX64 | jack-104: what are you doing playing with that mug when people want to talk to you :) |
| 06:21.22 | IriX64 | wake up :) |
| 08:21.15 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548759e4.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 10:18.37 | deltazap | ruh-roh! |
| 10:19.07 | deltazap | make errored out |
| 10:19.35 | deltazap | " No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'. Stop." |
| 10:23.28 | deltazap | this with "make --enable-almost-everything --enable-optimized" |
| 10:49.57 | deltazap | er...not make, where's my head this morning |
| 10:50.02 | deltazap | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:53.53 | brlcad | deltazap: bah.. |
| 11:53.58 | brlcad | add --disable-jove |
| 11:54.16 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: missing jove-tutorial from dist |
| 12:52.39 | *** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com) | |
| 13:36.36 | deltazap | brlcad: hey, that's what i'm here for: testing |
| 13:36.41 | deltazap | all i know is "pres butan to go" |
| 14:10.58 | clock_ | press butane to go? |
| 14:13.47 | deltazap | bad mac joke :P |
| 15:23.54 | *** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h37n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com) | |
| 18:27.29 | IriX64 | deltazap.... try make creation :P |
| 18:29.24 | brlcad | deltazap: :) |
| 18:37.39 | *** join/#brlcad cad50 (n=47f87232@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:42.33 | IriX64 | is it easier to maintain, splitting the configure up like that? |
| 18:43.58 | brlcad | our configure is nearly four thousand lines.. not sure I'd call that "split up" |
| 18:44.22 | IriX64 | was referring to the configure that runs for tcl tk |
| 18:44.36 | IriX64 | stead of pre 7.10 style |
| 18:47.55 | brlcad | we didn't "split it up", I just let configure run it's own -- they have their own build setup |
| 18:48.13 | IriX64 | understood |
| 19:05.14 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore brep_simple |
| 19:23.10 | brlcad | you're probably still better off with --enable-all --disable-jove |
| 19:23.22 | IriX64 | will try this first |
| 19:24.14 | IriX64 | but im easy lets do that. ;) |
| 19:25.15 | IriX64 | jove is deprecated? |
| 19:27.04 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54877E90.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:27.57 | brlcad | jove has been deprecated for a decade |
| 19:28.24 | IriX64 | heh thats why no lightning bolts ? |
| 19:29.07 | brlcad | huh? |
| 19:29.31 | IriX64 | heh norse mythology , but i'm getting thor and jove mixed up :) |
| 19:29.54 | brlcad | and zeus apparently |
| 19:29.57 | IriX64 | err jove and zeus |
| 19:30.02 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:31.41 | daggerr | thor did make thunder too :) |
| 19:32.12 | IriX64 | mjolinor forever :) |
| 19:32.22 | IriX64 | did i spell it right? |
| 19:32.41 | daggerr | IriX64, i dont know :) in sweden its spelled mjölner |
| 19:32.52 | IriX64 | ty :) |
| 19:33.45 | IriX64 | how do you do that over the o? |
| 19:33.51 | IriX64 | alt combo? |
| 19:34.22 | daggerr | IriX64, i just press the key wit an ö on it :) |
| 19:34.32 | daggerr | i've got a swedish keyboard :) |
| 19:35.07 | IriX64 | heh make sense then |
| 19:35.11 | IriX64 | makes too |
| 19:36.40 | IriX64 | there |
| 19:42.10 | IriX64 | daggerr are you experienced at cad with brl-cad? (im here to learn, don't worry i won't badger you with questions) |
| 19:42.42 | daggerr | IriX64, in here for the same reason as you :) |
| 19:42.49 | daggerr | I've used it a little bit |
| 19:42.58 | daggerr | but it was almost a year ago |
| 19:42.59 | IriX64 | good place for it :) |
| 19:43.35 | daggerr | if you have a question the ppl in this channel seems to be eager to help so i found it really good back then :) |
| 19:43.48 | IriX64 | im just playing with the examples haven't really even got my mug yet |
| 19:48.54 | daggerr | IriX64, i did the radio then i started working on my own projects |
| 19:49.23 | IriX64 | I'll get to that some day :) |
| 19:51.04 | daggerr | IriX64, i think it was the first. it was in the introduction to mged or so.. i dont remember exactly :) |
| 20:00.13 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:04.19 | IriX64 | :) have played with the tutorial but i'm lousy at geometry so don't know how well i'll make out |
| 20:28.03 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:44.23 | joevalle1field | any meshes in .g floating around? |
| 20:45.19 | brlcad | joevalle1field: how big you need? |
| 20:45.50 | joevalle1field | no size in particular |
| 20:48.22 | ``Erik | several, I can get you the hilux... (I haven't gotten you rf becuase of BRL-CAD related build issues... stupid c++ pollution) |
| 20:48.45 | ``Erik | or you can just hop in mged and facetize something... |
| 20:49.15 | brlcad | yeah, that or g-nmg is probably the fastest start |
| 20:49.41 | brlcad | else I have t62 already facetized around here somewhere too as well as some humanoid thing you'd probably recognize |
| 20:49.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:50.12 | ``Erik | got a cornelius? :D |
| 20:53.25 | joevalle1field | what's a cornelius? |
| 20:54.02 | ``Erik | demo geometry that comes with blender |
| 20:54.19 | ``Erik | also a dude on planet of teh grapes |
| 20:54.25 | joevalle1field | :) |
| 20:55.11 | ``Erik | http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-V-TweakEx11.png |
| 20:55.15 | ``Erik | http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-IV-Warp2.jpg |
| 20:55.20 | ``Erik | http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-IV-CorneliusMap.jpg |
| 20:55.23 | ``Erik | cornelius :D |
| 20:56.21 | brlcad | brl-cad's mascot should be a moose |
| 20:56.49 | ``Erik | get to modelin', boy |
| 20:57.09 | brlcad | i already have a scan of a moose's head, taken from ct scan data, but just the bones |
| 20:57.46 | joevalle1field | do you have a photo of a moose's outer you know |
| 20:58.19 | joevalle1field | bones and a photo should be a good start |
| 20:58.40 | brlcad | heh, http://www.dynamore.de/models/con_models_moose.php?frame=ok |
| 20:59.24 | ``Erik | heh, the quality of models meatspace sim people use... heh... *smirk* |
| 20:59.34 | brlcad | just what everyone needs.. an ls-dyna moose crash dummy model |
| 20:59.46 | joevalle1field | cute but not alot of mascot potential |
| 21:00.51 | joevalle1field | now you're talking |
| 21:15.05 | clock_ | brlcad: can you model boobs, ass and the rest of a woman with BRL-CAD? |
| 21:16.17 | clock_ | brlcad: easily? |
| 21:16.17 | IriX64 | http://irix64/spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 21:16.17 | brlcad | clock_: only mathematically perfect ones :) |
| 21:17.17 | brlcad | easily |
| 21:17.18 | ``Erik | heh, wow, she's packin' perfect spheres! |
| 21:17.18 | brlcad | otherwise, it's import |
| 21:17.18 | IriX64 | err http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 21:17.18 | clock_ | brlcad: now I see the power of CSG |
| 21:17.18 | clock_ | A part of the woman could be modeled by subtracting a suitably positioned man |
| 21:17.24 | bjorkBSD | holy shit the room's getting crowded! |
| 21:17.28 | clock_ | i. e. saves work when modelling both |
| 21:17.47 | bjorkBSD | yhwh? |
| 21:18.03 | brlcad | yhwh? |
| 21:18.12 | ``Erik | hryaw |
| 21:18.15 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/projects/makehuman |
| 21:18.52 | bjorkBSD | ah. i thought he was referring to his yahweh-ish powers to makehuman. |
| 21:19.13 | clock_ | what shape are boobs? |
| 21:19.18 | ``Erik | http://www.dedalo-3d.com/index.php |
| 21:19.19 | clock_ | Paraboloid? Ellipsoid? |
| 21:19.27 | bjorkBSD | clock_, take a look at yours. |
| 21:19.28 | ``Erik | you've never seen any, before? |
| 21:19.34 | ``Erik | s/,// |
| 21:19.43 | bjorkBSD | the room was dimly lit. |
| 21:19.44 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) | |
| 21:20.09 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: I don't have boobs, despite the fact I am attracted to men |
| 21:20.19 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: and I am not a flat woman either |
| 21:20.21 | bjorkBSD | what do you have them? |
| 21:20.26 | bjorkBSD | *then. |
| 21:20.31 | bjorkBSD | and i thought you were a boy. n/m. |
| 21:20.39 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: yes I am a boy |
| 21:20.57 | IriX64 | boyo |
| 21:21.08 | bjorkBSD | well, all mammals have breasts. |
| 21:21.24 | IriX64 | nipples not breasts |
| 21:21.36 | bjorkBSD | that's right. |
| 21:21.42 | bjorkBSD | so that should be easy to model. |
| 21:21.44 | bjorkBSD | a '.'. |
| 21:21.49 | bjorkBSD | start from that and grow it :) |
| 21:22.01 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:23.12 | IriX64 | reminds me of that .g file ``Erik ;) |
| 21:24.35 | bjorkBSD | clock are you modeling living things? |
| 21:24.54 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: no |
| 21:27.50 | brlcad | he's modeling cool network equipment |
| 21:27.56 | bjorkBSD | heheheh |
| 21:28.11 | brlcad | seriously, pretty nifty model |
| 21:28.36 | brlcad | great example of what can be done in a relatively short while |
| 21:28.46 | bjorkBSD | really? can we see? |
| 21:29.30 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php |
| 21:29.59 | clock_ | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 21:31.17 | bjorkBSD | pretty damned cool, clock. |
| 21:31.28 | ``Erik | well... "breast" is a word that's been mutating, it used to be very gender neutral... |
| 21:31.35 | deltazap | see, now you're just showing off that you can get things into autocad :P |
| 21:31.41 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: thanks |
| 21:31.50 | brlcad | clock_: you had that initial scaffolding part of the model in like .. what? two weeks? |
| 21:31.50 | bjorkBSD | that was before implants, right ``Erik? ;) |
| 21:32.05 | brlcad | of your spare time |
| 21:32.07 | clock_ | brlcad: what is scaffolding? |
| 21:32.18 | brlcad | everything but the shooter part |
| 21:32.27 | clock_ | I don't know |
| 21:32.37 | clock_ | the modeling was spread through longer time |
| 21:32.37 | ``Erik | (so did a lot of male descriptors in english... "him" and "he" used to be fairly gender neutral) |
| 21:32.58 | bjorkBSD | very cool. |
| 21:33.37 | clock_ | brlcad: I did a lot of parts before that weren't part of the model |
| 21:33.43 | clock_ | intermixed with parts of the model |
| 21:34.56 | clock_ | Now I can test how many megaton TNT I need to bend that beam ;-) |
| 21:35.33 | clock_ | ``Erik: you can play a DVD which is in the drive of a friend who lives in the neighbourhood |
| 21:36.23 | bjorkBSD | clock_, have you been testing it? |
| 21:36.23 | clock_ | As a hightech system it requires hightech components |
| 21:36.41 | ``Erik | erm, at 10mbps? is that enough to push the mpeg4 data with enough left over for ccoping with drops ? |
| 21:36.55 | clock_ | Smoke flues, magnifying glasses, cat litter substrate, bathroom caulking and an old toothbrush |
| 21:36.57 | bjorkBSD | i watch videos online over less. |
| 21:37.02 | clock_ | bjorkBSD: yes |
| 21:37.17 | clock_ | ``Erik: there are no drops. This is not a WiFi |
| 21:37.39 | ``Erik | it's optic, but if a bird flies through the path, or smoke particulates interfere, or ... |
| 21:37.42 | bjorkBSD | a powerful remote control huh? |
| 21:37.52 | clock_ | ``Erik: then the buffers catch it |
| 21:38.08 | bjorkBSD | if a bird flies through it's path, it blinks and emits an ear piercing shriek only birds can here :) |
| 21:38.11 | clock_ | ``Erik: smoke particulate don't interfere. the beam is 13cm thick |
| 21:38.16 | ``Erik | it'd still need a resent, no? |
| 21:38.21 | ``Erik | resend, even |
| 21:38.31 | clock_ | it has a BER of 10^-9 |
| 21:38.34 | ``Erik | I mean, if a bird flies through, you lost bits... |
| 21:38.40 | clock_ | so once 125 megabytes, you need one resend |
| 21:38.52 | clock_ | but that is catched by TCP and the buffers |
| 21:39.21 | ``Erik | right, and tcp hiccups over 10baseT are pretty nasty, I can't see optic being any better |
| 21:39.51 | ``Erik | if you can outpush the stream, yeah, you can use big honkin' buffers (a second or two of display data might be enough), I spoze :) |
| 21:39.57 | clock_ | ``Erik: I didn't notice any hiccups. is your 10baseT full duplex? |
| 21:40.07 | ``Erik | when I had it, yes |
| 21:40.23 | ``Erik | I'm all 100baseT and 802.11b at home |
| 21:40.23 | clock_ | this is like 10BaseT-FD |
| 21:40.39 | bjorkBSD | and is it tcp or something else clock_? |
| 21:40.45 | clock_ | TCP |
| 21:41.05 | clock_ | or whatever you put there - it behaves like a fibre optic segment of 10BaseT-FD |
| 21:41.22 | clock_ | people use it always with TCP/IP |
| 21:41.34 | ``Erik | tcp is a level 4, ronja is level 1... |
| 21:41.45 | ``Erik | (and probably 2) |
| 21:42.27 | clock_ | NE592 differential video amplifier |
| 21:42.34 | clock_ | NE592 porn video amplifier |
| 21:44.29 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:45.37 | clock_ | god save us from some child looking into the beam when porn is being transmitted |
| 21:45.56 | clock_ | it would see porn, though not in a format that's possible to perceive |
| 21:46.09 | clock_ | I wonder whether this counts as an indecent display to minors too |
| 21:47.54 | clock_ | Primary school math: |
| 21:48.20 | clock_ | An epilepsy patient gets a fit of 5 jerks a second when he sees 100Hz stobing light |
| 21:48.35 | clock_ | Calculate how many jerks a second he does when he sees a 10,000,000 Hz strobing light |
| 21:55.46 | bjorkBSD | 10khz? that's a hip hop dance. |
| 21:56.39 | bjorkBSD | 10Mhz. hmmm. cardiac arrest follows. |
| 22:01.38 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:03.02 | clock_ | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/2005_Dime_Obv_Unc_P.png |
| 22:03.02 | clock_ | Is it the face of god? |
| 22:03.03 | clock_ | "In god we trust" |
| 22:03.48 | deltazap | no that's an old man that was outside the building the other day |
| 22:04.53 | clock_ | Looks almost like BRL-CAD logo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/United_States_dollar_coin%2C_reverse.jpg |
| 22:05.14 | clock_ | I guess "E PLURIBUS UNUM" must mean something like "one model consists of multiple subcomponents" |
| 22:05.52 | deltazap | r dime.r u dime_body.c u face.c |
| 22:06.41 | clock_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LineartPresRev.png |
| 22:07.04 | clock_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:19-08-06_0359.jpg |
| 22:07.13 | clock_ | Now I know where the hairstyle on the coin is from :) |
| 22:07.53 | bjorkBSD | the stone ages. |
| 22:07.59 | bjorkBSD | when metal was currency. |
| 22:08.10 | bjorkBSD | and stones were ... just that. |
| 22:08.23 | clock_ | what is the currency now? eurodance? |
| 22:08.51 | bjorkBSD | it's inflationary |
| 22:08.59 | bjorkBSD | over time of course. hard to pin point. |
| 22:09.23 | bjorkBSD | and the gov't ALWAYS gets first dibs. |
| 22:10.40 | clock_ | now the currency are credit cards with negastive balance |
| 22:12.25 | bjorkBSD | funny, i was just reading a blog on improving one's credit score. |
| 22:12.28 | bjorkBSD | but you're right. |
| 22:13.37 | kwizart | Hello! (some quick help needed for help packaging brlcad for Fedora...) |
| 22:13.54 | kwizart | where can i have the sources code for jove ? |
| 22:14.16 | kwizart | The compilation fails at jove contrib step... |
| 22:14.42 | kwizart | make[4]: *** No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'. Stop. |
| 22:15.03 | bjorkBSD | which version, kwizart? |
| 22:15.11 | kwizart | last (of brlcad |
| 22:15.13 | kwizart | ) |
| 22:15.17 | bjorkBSD | called what? |
| 22:15.23 | kwizart | 7.10 |
| 22:15.24 | kwizart | :) |
| 22:15.33 | bjorkBSD | just checking ;) |
| 22:15.45 | kwizart | i was waiting it ! :) |
| 22:15.58 | deltazap | brlcad just said to --disable-jove since it isn't required |
| 22:16.45 | kwizart | well i can do that but packaging on official repository may need to get all option that can work buindin ! |
| 22:16.47 | deltazap | 15:27 <@brlcad> jove has been deprecated for a decade |
| 22:17.14 | kwizart | well that may solve things... |
| 22:17.48 | kwizart | The main problem i have is all tcl/tk iwigets from the system aren't found... |
| 22:18.13 | kwizart | but i suppose theses packages to be malformed... |
| 22:20.52 | IriX64 | define.... malformed |
| 22:21.12 | kwizart | well packaging bugs ! |
| 22:22.03 | IriX64 | does it not detect itcl or what |
| 22:22.58 | kwizart | http://pastebin.ca/433633 |
| 22:23.47 | kwizart | only tkImg libregex jove arent' avaible on the system... |
| 22:24.17 | kwizart | others are present (with devel package) but not found |
| 22:24.42 | kwizart | for itcl : itcl-3.3-0.7.RC1.fc6 |
| 22:25.16 | IriX64 | have you tried a compile, im not sure the summary screen prints out everything or not |
| 22:26.30 | kwizart | yes i will give another try ( with --disable-jove-build \ ) and i will upload build.log if you want to see... |
| 22:27.41 | IriX64 | ill look |
| 22:30.57 | kwizart | IriX64, http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log |
| 22:31.16 | kwizart | this is the build.log before --disable-jove-build ... |
| 22:33.37 | ``Erik | "in god wet rust"? |
| 22:43.59 | brlcad | kwizart: i'll help you in a sec if you need it :) |
| 22:44.11 | kwizart | brlcad, thx |
| 22:44.28 | kwizart | (currently rebuilding ) |
| 23:03.50 | kwizart | updating log it fail on ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 23:05.46 | brlcad | eep |
| 23:06.35 | brlcad | that doesn't make sense |
| 23:06.45 | brlcad | what is it trying to link? |
| 23:06.53 | brlcad | and what's the link line look like? |
| 23:07.54 | kwizart | you can see here: http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log (at the end of the log!) |
| 23:08.22 | ``Erik | heh, I'd hope it's at the end, errors generally stop the build... |
| 23:08.47 | ``Erik | hum, slow site |
| 23:09.46 | ``Erik | hum, all the warning flags lit up |
| 23:11.45 | ``Erik | hrm, it's not taking Xi for some reason |
| 23:12.02 | kwizart | ``Erik, Xi ? |
| 23:12.44 | ``Erik | um, libXi.so, X intrinsics |
| 23:13.29 | ``Erik | theoretically, there should be a -lXi on the link line |
| 23:13.35 | deltazap | woop woop |
| 23:14.23 | kwizart | ``Erik, ok added to BuildRequires |
| 23:15.35 | deltazap | wheee Trace/BPT trap |
| 23:53.33 | deltazap | i hope i'm not the only one running in to the bpt trap |
| 00:03.43 | ``Erik | how when where what huh? |
| 00:05.42 | deltazap | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.42 | deltazap | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:05.46 | deltazap | make[2]: *** [pkgIndex.tcl] Trace/BPT trap |
| 00:05.46 | deltazap | make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 00:05.46 | deltazap | make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 00:05.59 | brlcad | deltazap: what version os x is this? |
| 00:06.01 | ``Erik | so a hackintosh |
| 00:06.07 | deltazap | latest |
| 00:06.20 | brlcad | it's trying to run btclsh if I had to guess |
| 00:06.29 | deltazap | 10.4.9 |
| 00:06.38 | brlcad | hrm, ppc or intel? |
| 00:06.42 | deltazap | ppc |
| 00:06.56 | brlcad | do you have your own autotools installed? |
| 00:07.00 | ``Erik | (do I need to crank up one of my g4 hackintops?) |
| 00:07.04 | brlcad | or something like fink in your path? |
| 00:07.22 | deltazap | macports, that's it |
| 00:07.33 | brlcad | ./autogen --version reports what? |
| 00:07.37 | brlcad | er, ./autogen.sh |
| 00:08.43 | deltazap | Found GNU Autoconf version 2.59 |
| 00:08.43 | deltazap | Found GNU Automake version 1.6.3 |
| 00:08.53 | deltazap | then a warning about libtoolize |
| 00:09.06 | deltazap | and GNU Libtool 1.5 |
| 00:10.19 | ``Erik | what's the warning? |
| 00:12.08 | deltazap | libtoolize does not appear to be available. blah blah glibtoolize was found which means you may have a non-standard or incomplete GNU Autotools install |
| 00:12.14 | brlcad | yeah, that's fine |
| 00:12.33 | ``Erik | just means you're using hte apple supplied libtool instead of one in macports :/ |
| 00:13.11 | deltazap | isn't that how it should be? |
| 00:13.16 | brlcad | which "should" be a good thing |
| 00:13.21 | brlcad | as the latter is untested |
| 00:13.24 | ``Erik | *shrug* I use the macports one, brlcad uses the apple one I think |
| 00:13.28 | brlcad | though either "should" work too |
| 00:13.44 | ``Erik | but I MOSTLY use fbsd, the mac is just a pretty xserver |
| 00:14.14 | ``Erik | so'z my mac setup is... mimicking fbsd |
| 00:14.24 | kwizart | updated build log http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log Backtrace... |
| 00:16.17 | brlcad | ewwww |
| 00:17.03 | kwizart | also a libtool problem (i'm running fc6 on x86_64) |
| 00:17.06 | kwizart | ? |
| 00:17.22 | brlcad | no |
| 00:17.56 | brlcad | btclsh is crashing on your system inside tclcad_auto_path() inside bu_brlcad_data() inside snprintf() ... |
| 00:23.16 | brlcad | it's possibly related to a bug in Tcl 8.5, there were a couple that we had to directly patch |
| 00:24.02 | kwizart | my system bundle tcl 8.6 (but not found) the system version can be forced ? |
| 00:24.21 | kwizart | Does this will help ? |
| 00:26.14 | brlcad | er, que? |
| 00:26.23 | brlcad | where you get 8.6 from? |
| 00:27.10 | brlcad | all the external deps can be forced |
| 00:27.16 | kwizart | oups no it was 8.4 sorry! |
| 00:29.41 | brlcad | yeah, that won't work so well |
| 00:29.41 | kwizart | can i uses 8.4 ? or it won't be enought ? |
| 00:29.41 | brlcad | the crash itself doesn't make sense though |
| 00:29.41 | brlcad | unless the stack has been stomped on before we get to tclcad_auto_path() .. which is entirely possible and would be a tcl 8.5 bug |
| 00:30.37 | brlcad | deltazap: for you, there's a relatively simple workaround |
| 00:31.16 | brlcad | go to src/other and each src/lib* dir and run sudo make install |
| 00:31.47 | brlcad | then you should be able to (re)complete make |
| 00:34.50 | deltazap | alright, i'll have to try that here in a bit |
| 01:27.25 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@70.48.166.133) | |
| 01:35.01 | deltazap | brlcad: didn't work |
| 01:43.32 | brlcad | deltazap: erm.. shouldn't be exactly the same? |
| 01:43.49 | deltazap | well, yes, ssame BPT trap |
| 01:45.27 | brlcad | yet you now have installed all the libs? |
| 01:45.48 | deltazap | yup, went to each directory and did the make install |
| 01:46.12 | deltazap | each lib* directory, that is |
| 01:46.25 | IriX64 | deltazap do a make clean first then make and then make install |
| 01:47.04 | deltazap | after the installation of the libs? |
| 01:47.13 | brlcad | no no |
| 01:47.16 | brlcad | don't do that |
| 01:47.16 | IriX64 | for the installation of the libs |
| 01:47.19 | ``Erik | "every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten" |
| 01:47.29 | IriX64 | whatd i say? |
| 01:47.36 | brlcad | deltazap: what's the error now? |
| 01:47.56 | brlcad | pastebin from the last libtool line on if you would |
| 01:55.40 | deltazap | bah, pastebin is erroring for me |
| 01:58.43 | deltazap | alright, i'm going to retry this |
| 01:59.52 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 01:59.55 | ibot | i heard pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 02:00.01 | brlcad | use one of the others that work ;) |
| 02:00.16 | deltazap | oh, didn't know that there were others |
| 02:05.57 | deltazap | anyways, i did a make clean and now am making from the src/other and then each lib* directory |
| 02:11.20 | brlcad | the important trick is to install the libs before running btclsh |
| 02:11.43 | brlcad | alternatively, if you have a lot of disk space, you can just add --disable-shared to the configure line and build everything static |
| 02:19.08 | deltazap | since i'm not too familiar with build systems, any reason it's building it in that order and causing that error? |
| 02:24.44 | IriX64 | has to be built in the order people submitted the code :P |
| 02:30.03 | brlcad | deltazap: that's a mac-specific build/libtool issue -- libtool fails to locate the (uninstalled) libraries that the binary it's trying to run is using |
| 02:30.19 | brlcad | in this case src/bwish/btclsh is the binary it's trying to run |
| 02:30.26 | brlcad | if you run it directly, you should see the error |
| 02:30.56 | brlcad | if you install those libraries before running the binary, it should work |
| 02:31.46 | deltazap | ok, i misunderstood the first time around |
| 03:41.36 | deltazap | http://pastebin.ca/434005 - same song and dance |
| 03:42.04 | deltazap | this time, i had done the make installs for all of the libs and then ran make |
| 03:45.47 | IriX64 | Making all in tclscripts |
| 03:45.50 | IriX64 | so? |
| 03:46.55 | deltazap | fails with the same error |
| 03:47.12 | IriX64 | *what error thgats all thats posted. |
| 03:47.39 | deltazap | it's at the bottom of the pastebin link |
| 03:48.59 | IriX64 | _TkStatePrintProc <--- it cant find that symbol in your tcl lib |
| 03:49.24 | IriX64 | thats a function |
| 03:49.59 | deltazap | it should be he tcl library bundled with the source |
| 03:50.25 | IriX64 | try your system tcl use --without-tcl |
| 03:51.02 | deltazap | "i have a bad feeling about this..." |
| 03:51.22 | IriX64 | configure will tell you if it cant find a system tcl/tk |
| 03:52.49 | IriX64 | --without-tk should be used too tho ... just to stay compatible rev wise |
| 03:53.22 | deltazap | should i flag anything else? |
| 03:57.37 | deltazap | well, configure didn't say anything, just says that it's going to build tcl and tk |
| 03:59.27 | IriX64 | must not have a system tcl lib then? |
| 04:00.22 | deltazap | guess not |
| 04:05.49 | IriX64 | you could try hunting for that function |
| 04:06.07 | IriX64 | leave the _ off |
| 04:06.13 | IriX64 | the search string |
| 07:28.28 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875663.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 09:09.44 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net) | |
| 10:32.48 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: fmax was removed from librt/g_brep.cpp |
| 11:23.17 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 11:24.40 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 11:34.11 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.200) | |
| 12:26.27 | kwizart | hello! |
| 12:26.40 | kwizart | i'm searching why system tcl aren't found! |
| 12:26.52 | kwizart | buiding brlcad 7.10.0 |
| 12:31.53 | clock_ | How can I enter a slanted cylinder? |
| 12:32.18 | clock_ | i. e. a cylinder whose circular faces were moved in a shearing fashion |
| 12:32.43 | clock_ | I would just like to enter the circular faces |
| 13:13.27 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875663.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 13:18.30 | brlcad | kwizart: requires tcl 8.5+ |
| 13:18.55 | brlcad | clock_: that's a tgc |
| 13:19.09 | brlcad | truncated general cone |
| 13:19.40 | kwizart | well that's what i have in devel... |
| 13:20.03 | kwizart | (Fedora 7 |
| 13:20.37 | brlcad | the config.log script should say why then |
| 13:20.48 | kwizart | ok |
| 13:27.01 | clock_ | mged: ERROR: NULL union tree pointer, file db5_comb.c, line 106 |
| 13:27.10 | clock_ | is that an indication of bug in mged? |
| 13:27.18 | clock_ | After I imported a (probably invalid) ascii database |
| 13:27.59 | kwizart | brlcad, does the configure script is supposed to search for .la file ? (we don't bundled them prefering pkgconfig but tcl uses an old sh %{_libdir}/tclConfig.sh script to help to find it's configuration...) |
| 13:28.20 | kwizart | pastbin the config.log (look a little empty) |
| 13:29.53 | kwizart | http://www.pastebin.ca/434546 |
| 13:30.06 | brlcad | clock_: it's "bad behavior", and a borderline bug -- if you can post the inputs and it's reproducible, it would be worth seeing |
| 13:30.46 | brlcad | in general, bad input readily results in bad behavior when it comes to mged :) |
| 13:30.49 | kwizart | ac_cv_env_CPPFLAGS_value='-I/usr/local/include ' is bad it should be /usr/include but most header are found |
| 13:31.06 | clock_ | brlcad: I want to machine generate a combination in ascii database |
| 13:31.17 | clock_ | do the newlines have a different meaning than spaces? |
| 13:31.37 | brlcad | kwizart: /usr/include is a default search path, /usr/local/include is just an additional |
| 13:31.45 | clock_ | put {turn.c} comb region no tree {u {l cyl.s {1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1}} {u {l cyl.s {0.309016994375 0.951056516295 0 0 -0.951056516295 ... |
| 13:31.48 | clock_ | is that wrong? |
| 13:32.30 | kwizart | ok* |
| 13:32.31 | brlcad | kwizart: something else is wrong there.. error: /bin/sh misc/config.sub /usr/share/config.site failed |
| 13:34.01 | kwizart | hum i've try gnu make and failling a BuildRequires : gnustep-make |
| 13:34.17 | kwizart | does it will help to have a gnu make ? |
| 13:34.50 | *** join/#brlcad cad92 (n=cbda09f5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 13:43.51 | brlcad | kwizart: shouldn't .. though I've only tested gnu and bsd make |
| 13:54.27 | ``Erik | bsd make gets pukey when building out of dir |
| 14:13.31 | ``Erik | tazering that gnome |
| 16:06.34 | clock_ | brlcad: I made a thread from stacked sheared cylinders |
| 16:08.50 | ``Erik | swank |
| 16:46.34 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:04.27 | deltazap | it built it built! |
| 18:05.20 | deltazap | but now make benchmark and make test fails! :D |
| 18:08.45 | brlcad | clock_: picture? |
| 18:08.54 | brlcad | deltazap: eep :) |
| 18:09.30 | deltazap | just for the fun of it, i ran automake.sh first, then configure with almost-everything and optimize on and jove disabled |
| 18:11.19 | deltazap | it compiled without the bpt trap error, but now test and benchmark fail |
| 18:11.48 | clock_ | brlcad: the only picture I had was in the framebuffer of my graphics card |
| 18:16.07 | clock_ | OVERLAPb: depth 0.00000mm\ |
| 18:16.18 | clock_ | If the depth is 0.00000mm, isn't that called no overlap? |
| 18:19.35 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added attr and make_name commands. Other minor mods. |
| 18:20.45 | clock_ | I wonder whether the thread code will not be able to be included because it's under GPL, because I don't give a signed paper of some kind, because noone has time to include it or because it's not polished enough or because it's not of imporance for BRL-CAD ;-) |
| 18:22.19 | brlcad | if it'd be any, it'd be because of the first reason |
| 18:22.27 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 18:22.33 | clock_ | or all combined together ;-) |
| 18:22.39 | brlcad | and that's just a precision printing problem on the overlap.. it must be really tiny |
| 18:22.54 | clock_ | what is precision printing? |
| 18:23.14 | clock_ | you mean in the ASCII database? |
| 18:23.16 | brlcad | not having time is a function of perceived importance/impact |
| 18:23.16 | brlcad | sort of the same thing |
| 18:23.33 | brlcad | and nobody has been asked to sign anything |
| 18:23.57 | clock_ | you said I would have to sign a paper saying that I give off the rights to BRL, didn't you? |
| 18:24.03 | brlcad | i mean telling you that the overlap is 0.00000mm thick is a precision printing issue |
| 18:24.18 | clock_ | aha so the overlap actually exists? |
| 18:24.28 | brlcad | yep, it's just < 0.00000mm |
| 18:24.35 | clock_ | well I can give you the database which prints the overlap so you can see if there is an overlap or not |
| 18:24.38 | brlcad | digit-wise |
| 18:24.49 | clock_ | in couple of hours when it compiles and rsyncs |
| 18:24.52 | brlcad | like 0.000001mm |
| 18:26.35 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Added an entry for dm_drawDataAxes |
| 18:28.50 | clock_ | Kafka-esque GPL vs. LGPL :) |
| 18:29.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added a units method. |
| 18:31.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Added a drawDataAxes method. Also set the default display type to wgl. |
| 18:32.21 | clock_ | brlcad: I want to see the farse when GPLv3 comes out |
| 18:32.55 | brlcad | farse? |
| 18:33.44 | clock_ | Oh sorry, a farce |
| 18:33.52 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Update the units command to return the current units if args is an empty string. |
| 18:34.03 | clock_ | A farce is a comedy written for the stage, or a film, which aims to entertain the audience by means of unlikely and extravagant-yet often possible-situations, disguise and mistaken identity, verbal humour of varying degrees of sophistication, which may include puns and sexual innuendo, and a fast-paced plot whose speed usually increases even further towards the end of the play, often involving an elaborate chase scene. Broad physical humour, |
| 18:34.40 | deltazap | what would cause the test files not to be created? |
| 18:34.57 | brlcad | deltazap: try running: src/rt/rt |
| 18:36.04 | clock_ | Funny to see how the edge detection algorithm in rtedge reacts to the screw with varying degrees of mental breakdown, depending on the angle of view :) |
| 18:40.08 | clock_ | Saying that multiprocessor systems are faster is like sending three family cars to Formula One and claiming we are going to get the 1st place |
| 18:42.28 | deltazap | brlcad: funny, it responds and gives a version, but completely has the same BPT trap error i've been getting |
| 18:45.18 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Mods to help keep thing in sync wrt units. |
| 18:45.31 | brlcad | deltazap: pastebin please |
| 18:46.49 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Set default backColor to yellow. |
| 18:49.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm_obj.c axes.c): Added support for the drawDataAxes command. |
| 18:51.54 | deltazap | brlcad: http://pastebin.ca/435035 |
| 18:52.17 | deltazap | i had done a make install, so that's why i'm running it from /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 18:52.32 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/stl-g.c: Mods to open input file in untranslated/binary mode on windows. |
| 18:54.56 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: Added declaration for dmo_drawDataAxes_cmd(). |
| 18:56.44 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/archer/Archer_Documentation.chm: Minor tweaks. |
| 19:00.44 | ``Erik | eeks, bob's at it again |
| 19:00.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Made a few minor corrections. |
| 19:34.44 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:53.25 | clock_ | brlcad: the thread: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ at the bottom of the page |
| 20:00.55 | clock_ | or tread? |
| 20:01.58 | brlcad | thread |
| 20:02.01 | brlcad | nifty |
| 20:02.28 | brlcad | would be cooler as a sharp thread |
| 20:03.14 | brlcad | think you can get that with the intersection of an offset |
| 20:04.07 | clock_ | what does intersection of an offset mean? |
| 20:04.22 | clock_ | for an intersection you need two things, only one is not enough |
| 20:04.38 | clock_ | and offset is not a geometrical shape, but an abstract category. You cannot intersect with an offset. |
| 20:11.08 | ``Erik | hrmmmmmm, no images on that page use the height and width attributes? <IMG WIDTH=512 HEIGHT=512 SRC="neatostuff.png"> ? |
| 20:17.27 | IriX64 | whats the lowest version if tcl tahat brl-cad supports please? |
| 20:19.49 | ``Erik | 8.8a1 |
| 20:20.10 | IriX64 | errr ok :) |
| 20:20.33 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 20:20.47 | IriX64 | been there done that am quite insane now ;) |
| 20:21.36 | ``Erik | we don't test against different tcl versions, so I can't give you an answer.... it works with 8.5a5 (that's what's included), it MIGHT work ok with 8.4, in theory it SHOULD work with 8.0, but you know the saying... |
| 20:21.49 | ``Erik | the difference between practice and theory is much greater in practice than in theory |
| 20:21.51 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 20:23.19 | IriX64 | or rather have the souvenire hat with my name on it :) |
| 20:23.19 | IriX64 | got it thanks man |
| 20:23.21 | ``Erik | unless you happen to be both a tcl and automake guru, I'd strongly recommend enabling the build of the included tcl. |
| 20:23.21 | ``Erik | (and if it breaks, we're just going to tell you to use the included tcl, ...) |
| 20:32.41 | IriX64 | proper notes scribbled ``Erik :) |
| 20:35.25 | ``Erik | meeeehhhhhhh, gruntwork |
| 20:39.42 | IriX64 | some guy gave me this and said i should be able to detect what version of tcl is being used by the system, but im getting tcl returned error, should this work, bearing in mind im just a novice at tcl http://www.pastebin.ca/435188 |
| 20:42.18 | ``Erik | seems like an awfully silly and error prone way to examine things O.o |
| 20:42.38 | IriX64 | heh wadda i know :) |
| 20:45.21 | ``Erik | tell ya what |
| 20:45.23 | ``Erik | start mged |
| 20:45.37 | ``Erik | in the command window, type in "info tclversion" and hit the big button on the right |
| 20:45.45 | ``Erik | it prints the version right there of what it's omfg using |
| 20:45.53 | ``Erik | or run tclsh and do thesame |
| 20:46.58 | IriX64 | 8.4 but thats the old mged |
| 20:47.13 | IriX64 | still futzing around with 7-10 |
| 20:47.38 | IriX64 | suppose i should build it just to say i did ;) |
| 20:48.15 | IriX64 | was more liking to working on this tcl thingy though |
| 20:49.11 | ``Erik | well, ok, if it's build time, do this |
| 20:49.20 | ``Erik | grep '^TCL ' Makefile |
| 20:49.23 | IriX64 | what do i care if they dont have some sort of tcl they're on their own im not gonna supply one for them |
| 20:49.33 | ``Erik | mine says: TCL = -L${top_builddir}/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -lm |
| 20:52.21 | IriX64 | mine says 8.4 |
| 20:52.33 | IriX64 | thanks for the help ``Erik |
| 20:55.39 | ``Erik | np |
| 21:03.35 | IriX64 | error prone? mmm does that involve horizontal :) |
| 21:05.19 | IriX64 | errands to run back l8r |
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| 23:05.07 | IriX64 | blankety blank..cflags have changed since last run ... of course, i changed them... why not let me know up front stead of at the end :) |
| 23:05.14 | louipc | hurrah |
| 23:05.24 | IriX64 | ? |
| 23:05.47 | b0ef | has any toolkit been decided on for the new interface? |
| 23:05.51 | IriX64 | new connection? or just fixed :) |
| 23:06.28 | louipc | b0ef: I'm curious about that too :D |
| 23:06.59 | IriX64 | unicos i'm told :) |
| 23:08.25 | louipc | unicos? |
| 23:08.29 | louipc | never heard of it |
| 23:08.43 | IriX64 | cray schtuff |
| 23:09.03 | IriX64 | btw welcome back |
| 23:09.26 | louipc | why would they use cray stuff? |
| 23:09.28 | louipc | hah thanks |
| 23:09.40 | louipc | I'm only booted in a LiveCD |
| 23:09.49 | louipc | my disk crashed and I lost my bootloader |
| 23:10.01 | IriX64 | whoa |
| 23:10.11 | louipc | and for some reason the bootloader on my second disk isn't doing anything at all |
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| 00:23.27 | IriX64 | ``Erik is windereze gl32 part of every windows system? I can't find any of my kids who have been playing around with it |
| 00:26.39 | IriX64 | which is also the reason btw that i run windows base |
| 00:29.10 | IriX64 | you guys can consider me a test bed, if it succeds here it should be fine everywhere but if it screws up here blame it on my stuff :) |
| 00:31.09 | IriX64 | heh opennurbs going by :) |
| 00:40.35 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
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| 03:15.44 | IriX64 | now why on earth does my system do that? meaning i set with-tk and with-tcl and tkconfigure can't find tclsh |
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| 04:12.58 | deltazap | *sigh* |
| 04:21.51 | brlcad | deltazap: sorry for the frustration.. competiting deadlines taking up attention today |
| 04:23.30 | deltazap | that's not a problem |
| 04:23.37 | brlcad | b0ef: no, it's intentionally designed with a front-end and back-end so that there could be a gui written in whatever flavor people prefer |
| 04:24.15 | deltazap | i found out that running ./autogen.sh will clear up the error with the BPT trap, but then it still persists in the programs themselves |
| 04:25.09 | brlcad | principal approach that I'm most expecting/hopeful to work out best is to go with one of the 3D render engines like ogre or irrlicht for front-end graphics management and an opengl-based gui toolkit |
| 04:25.47 | brlcad | deltazap: hmmm.. good to know -- problem with the libtool that is in the source tarball |
| 04:26.18 | brlcad | deltazap: which os again? |
| 04:26.25 | deltazap | OS X |
| 04:26.41 | deltazap | the latest, 10.4.9 |
| 04:27.30 | brlcad | did you try static build? |
| 04:27.35 | deltazap | no, not yet |
| 04:27.39 | brlcad | --disable-shared |
| 04:27.48 | brlcad | that "should" also fix the problem |
| 04:27.53 | brlcad | just uses a lot of disk |
| 04:28.21 | deltazap | how much is a lot? |
| 04:28.32 | brlcad | don't recall the final installed amount |
| 04:28.40 | brlcad | couple hundred MB iirc |
| 04:28.53 | brlcad | it'll need like 2GB to compile, though |
| 04:29.14 | brlcad | iirc |
| 04:33.18 | deltazap | ok, i'll try it tonight |
| 04:34.55 | IriX64 | brlcad here 7.8.4 took just over a gig |
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| 13:00.18 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: The Tcl path changed and memset.c is no longer with us. |
| 13:08.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbn/libbn.vcproj: The Tcl path changed. Also, asize.c and number.c have been removed. |
| 13:53.10 | ``Erik | hehehe "I'd like to see Emacs, the microbot, though... It makes toast, does taxes and raises your children, but unfortunately it has the size and weight of a phone book, draws a kilowatt of power and the wheels don't quite reach the ground." |
| 14:07.43 | deltazap | protip: don't do --enable-all --enable-optimize with --disable-cache, you'll wake up with 3 gigs missing and gcc wanting more :P |
| 14:27.29 | ``Erik | hrm, but 3 gigs is, like, nothing |
| 14:27.59 | deltazap | not on my laptop, where i keep it quite full |
| 14:28.19 | deltazap | and my powermac isn't going to fare much better since i keep all of my photography on it |
| 14:29.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:35.53 | ``Erik | $ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep -v blocks | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | sed 's/$/ TB/' |
| 14:35.53 | ``Erik | 12.20917387586086988449 TB |
| 14:37.09 | ``Erik | oh, woops |
| 14:37.27 | ``Erik | $ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep -v blocks | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | sed 's/$/ TB/' |
| 14:37.27 | ``Erik | 17.05380797106772661209 TB |
| 14:37.37 | ``Erik | one of my raids wasn't mounted, heh |
| 17:22.35 | ``Erik | oh wow, a bug report for some of my software... on a cbm a4000 (604e amiga from '92) running amigaOS O.o |
| 17:23.58 | archivist | Ive noted a few nuts running old stuff in #classiccmp |
| 17:26.39 | ``Erik | well, yeah, nothing wrong with running old hw... but I'm kinda boggled that someone got my software to work there... it was very much designed for *nix, has warts on osX (but kinda runs from the command line), apparently runs from the command line in amigaOS (but not as a callable sub-program from this "yam" thing, which I think is a mail client) |
| 17:28.18 | archivist | they pasted this link today http://www.sentex.net/%7Emwandel/tech/printer.html |
| 17:29.27 | clock_ | archivist: I have a 1-pin dot matrix printer at home, not home built but factory built |
| 17:30.53 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:31.08 | ``Erik | reading that whole thing, I kept going "why not just make it a plotter", then saw the lnk at the end :D |
| 17:33.18 | archivist | but then in the old days I fitted S100 bus to a commodore pet |
| 18:03.23 | IriX64 | is it *supposed to find both opengl and X ? |
| 18:05.22 | IriX64 | tried --without-opengl, still finds it |
| 18:09.16 | IriX64 | s100 bus I know, s100 on a commodore, I don't know :) |
| 18:10.38 | IriX64 | :) |
| 18:11.11 | IriX64 | this should work, configure claims it's sane :) |
| 18:14.00 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/436737 <---- now what? :) |
| 18:15.31 | IriX64 | don't worry bout tcl.... told you my build system is,err,well....unique :) |
| 18:16.27 | IriX64 | frame buffer came up |
| 18:19.15 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 18:21.38 | IriX64 | bwahaha it rt'ed havoc |
| 18:24.36 | IriX64 | heh same url :) |
| 18:26.37 | brlcad | IriX64: remember that rule about posting more than five lines if nobody else is talking? |
| 18:26.47 | brlcad | it never went away |
| 18:26.47 | IriX64 | noted |
| 18:27.10 | brlcad | thx |
| 18:27.11 | IriX64 | when can i talk? |
| 18:27.21 | brlcad | pace yourself |
| 18:27.39 | brlcad | when someone else responds |
| 18:27.48 | brlcad | deltazap: heh, eep :) |
| 18:27.50 | IriX64 | now i know... ty |
| 18:27.53 | brlcad | only 3GB? |
| 18:28.06 | brlcad | deltazap: was that with --disable-shared? |
| 18:28.20 | deltazap | last night, yeah |
| 18:57.10 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 18:58.24 | dli | can I show sectional view in brlcad? |
| 19:14.27 | brlcad | dli: you mean split views? |
| 19:15.34 | brlcad | if so, on menu Modes -> Multipane |
| 19:20.48 | dli | brlcad, no, I mean to show sectional, cutting part of along a plane |
| 19:20.54 | dli | cutting part off |
| 19:26.52 | brlcad | ah, not automatic |
| 19:27.16 | brlcad | you can create/orient an arb and subtract it |
| 19:27.31 | brlcad | arb or halfspace |
| 19:28.06 | dli | brlcad, oh, that's not bad |
| 19:35.30 | brlcad | allows you to create new top-level objects with various cutaway views too |
| 19:39.50 | dli | brlcad, can I write text labels in brlcad? |
| 19:40.15 | dli | brlcad, or I have to use an image tool? |
| 19:41.40 | brlcad | dli: alas, not really, at least not easily and/or not for more than the wireframe |
| 19:41.56 | brlcad | annotations have long been on our todo and wish lists |
| 19:43.13 | dli | brlcad, add dimension, drafting also, thanks |
| 19:44.00 | brlcad | hehe |
| 19:44.07 | brlcad | yup |
| 19:44.18 | brlcad | dimensioning is related to parametrics |
| 19:45.32 | brlcad | IriX64: nice mug :) |
| 19:47.25 | IriX64 | heh you designed it :) |
| 19:50.58 | clock_ | IriX64: thanks |
| 19:51.11 | clock_ | dli: sectional view can be seen at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d |
| 19:51.15 | IriX64 | welced |
| 19:51.30 | brlcad | IriX64: you should try modeling that moose as a project.. that would be awesome |
| 19:52.34 | IriX64 | remeber feb 21's is an albumn too :) |
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| 20:27.31 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/basename.c: Needs to include bu.h |
| 20:29.35 | deltazap | clock_: what did you use to get the perspectives of the models? |
| 20:34.04 | clock_ | deltazap: fixed values |
| 20:34.39 | deltazap | straight from brlcad? |
| 20:35.08 | clock_ | deltazap: no I selected myself 5 fixed values of view |
| 20:35.47 | deltazap | and it came out looking like that? |
| 20:36.31 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 20:36.31 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 20:36.32 | clock_ | deltazap: yes |
| 20:36.54 | deltazap | wow |
| 20:36.56 | deltazap | i mean |
| 20:36.57 | deltazap | wow |
| 20:41.03 | brlcad | yay, finally fixed that age-old mged annoyance where the cursor gets in front of the prompt |
| 20:41.26 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 20:41.30 | deltazap | :D |
| 20:41.50 | brlcad | that little bitch was mildly tricky to track down |
| 20:42.08 | clock_ | brlcad: BRL-CAD now entering into the new century? |
| 20:42.11 | deltazap | uh oh, the machine that i was running my static compile on is no longer online |
| 20:42.18 | brlcad | clock_: welcome to 1990 ;) |
| 20:42.39 | clock_ | croydon stapleford |
| 20:42.57 | brlcad | i should have gone home 3 hours ago, but I got to piddling and ended up debugging |
| 20:44.42 | brlcad | deltazap: heh, oops |
| 20:45.24 | deltazap | yeah, it's strange...i hope that we just had a power failure and that it just stayed off |
| 20:45.42 | brlcad | or you filled up the disk, and it can't do anything |
| 20:45.45 | deltazap | hahah |
| 20:46.03 | ``Erik | should still pong under icmp lovin' |
| 20:46.26 | ``Erik | if it's a filled disk.. |
| 20:46.35 | deltazap | it had just finished the configure stage and was waiting for me to start make |
| 20:47.01 | deltazap | or, if i'm really lucky, it just got knocked off wireless |
| 20:47.21 | brlcad | or really unlucky, it just got stolen |
| 20:47.43 | deltazap | hah, i don't know if anyone wants a dual 500mhz powermac |
| 20:47.48 | IriX64 | repossed :) |
| 20:48.02 | IriX64 | err repossesed too |
| 20:48.05 | deltazap | or if anyone could carry the 21" Studio Display CRT very far |
| 20:48.14 | IriX64 | whatever sheesh :) |
| 21:04.26 | ``Erik | heh, a buddy of mine was throwing away like a 486 a long time ago |
| 21:04.42 | ``Erik | he decided he'd have a little fun, so he poured the machine full of cement, let it dry |
| 21:04.53 | ``Erik | left it on his patio, next morning he found it in the neighbors ditch |
| 21:05.16 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:07.01 | deltazap | wow, haha |
| 21:09.53 | deltazap | wait, i just thought about something... |
| 21:10.14 | deltazap | if i'm a mac...shouldn't i leave archer out of my build? :P |
| 21:17.22 | brlcad | archer is actually cross-platform |
| 21:17.36 | brlcad | we've just not made a binary for any platform other than windows yet |
| 21:18.14 | brlcad | unless you buy a linux distro of an older version from survice or something |
| 21:18.37 | brlcad | it should compile .. but it's not going to work at run-time yet on the mac without some build system changes |
| 21:18.42 | brlcad | it's all build system foo |
| 21:19.54 | deltazap | if i disable it in the configure stage, then i won't have to wait as long for a compile to fail :) |
| 21:20.21 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:21.15 | brlcad | cept that there's not an option to disable archer, as it does/should compile everywhere |
| 21:21.22 | deltazap | oh ok |
| 21:21.26 | brlcad | actually archer isn't technically compiled |
| 21:21.37 | brlcad | it's a tcl scripted wrapper |
| 21:27.32 | deltazap | hmm |
| 21:27.33 | deltazap | interesting |
| 21:34.20 | bjorkBSD | yeah that tcl's something isn't she? |
| 21:54.47 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/437130 what's wrong with my system here itclibs are in /usr/brlcad-7.10.0/lib |
| 21:56.01 | IriX64 | is it the fact that i specified --prefix |
| 22:07.09 | IriX64 | even with path set i get that |
| 22:12.20 | ``Erik | archer seemed to work on a fbsd machine, I didn't really dig into it, though |
| 22:25.37 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/437185 on the brifgt side :) |
| 22:25.37 | IriX64 | bright too |
| 23:15.38 | IriX64 | archer works on a windows box too ``Erik :) |
| 23:17.55 | ``Erik | it was designed and built for/on windows... so, uh, that'd be expected |
| 23:22.51 | IriX64 | ``Erik uh yeah, check it http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 23:31.32 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 23:53.59 | IriX64 | man.... the farking version number is buggered it installs then as 3.3 rename to 3.2 and the error goes away |
| 23:54.10 | IriX64 | at least on my wacky system |
| 00:41.14 | IriX64 | checkit :) |
| 00:47.56 | IriX64 | checkit again, that m35 is courtesy my weird little system . |
| 00:58.27 | IriX64 | rtedge is on the blog, ill vanish for a while now :) |
| 01:01.00 | IriX64 | don't get to excited though you still require an X-server |
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| 02:07.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/437495 <--- is that compilation number your doing? or do i have a mite here? |
| 02:10.58 | poolio | IriX64: is it svn? |
| 02:11.04 | poolio | or cvs or whatnot |
| 02:11.14 | IriX64 | source tarball |
| 02:11.34 | poolio | In that case it sounds like something on their end. if they're using some sort of revision system it should keep track of the compiling similar to the Linux kernel |
| 02:11.58 | IriX64 | the rest make sens 4 compilations |
| 02:12.04 | IriX64 | sense too |
| 02:25.19 | IriX64 | poolio see -----> http://www.pastebin.ca/437519 |
| 02:28.36 | poolio | so the raytracer has had a lot of work ;) |
| 02:29.08 | IriX64 | nothing that would affect you, i have strangebrew for a system ;) |
| 02:30.20 | IriX64 | sigh im so dense poolio you're right of course :) |
| 02:31.15 | poolio | I'm probably not right, and I've no clue as to your density... :P |
| 02:31.26 | IriX64 | brick :) |
| 02:31.35 | IriX64 | err maybe post :) |
| 02:31.41 | poolio | that's not all that dense. |
| 02:31.51 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:10.30 | IriX64 | not that dense eh? see what I did to myself here poolio ---> http://www.pastebin.ca/437587 |
| 03:16.53 | poolio | meh. windows makes everything look ugly. i'm off to sleep, gnite. |
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| 15:21.52 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS README configure.ac include/config_win.h): bump to 7.10.1 |
| 15:45.10 | *** join/#brlcad rafa_ (n=rafa@200.180.169.105) | |
| 15:45.46 | rafa_ | i install brlcad in ubuntu |
| 15:45.50 | rafa_ | and now? |
| 15:45.55 | rafa_ | how start? |
| 15:50.22 | rafa_ | please |
| 15:51.38 | clock_ | rafa_: download http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja.g |
| 15:51.41 | clock_ | rafa_: run mged ronja.g |
| 15:51.48 | clock_ | type B ronja |
| 15:51.56 | clock_ | then go to File -> Raytrace and raytrace it |
| 15:52.56 | rafa_ | ? |
| 15:53.33 | clock_ | . |
| 15:53.33 | *** join/#brlcad sisplau (n=gn-eleaz@163.Red-81-37-105.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) | |
| 15:53.34 | rafa_ | run in terminal |
| 15:53.35 | rafa_ | $ meged? |
| 15:54.22 | sisplau | hi |
| 15:54.28 | rafa_ | hi |
| 15:54.40 | sisplau | spanish? |
| 15:54.48 | rafa_ | yes |
| 15:54.51 | sisplau | hola |
| 15:54.52 | rafa_ | como vaz |
| 15:54.56 | rafa_ | hola |
| 15:54.59 | sisplau | he instalado este programa |
| 15:55.02 | sisplau | pero no se ejecutarlo |
| 15:55.31 | sisplau | no crea icono |
| 15:55.44 | sisplau | y no se que comando debo poner en la consola |
| 15:56.00 | rafa_ | amigo joi tambem |
| 15:56.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: |
| 15:56.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: Finally isolated the problem where certain operations in the mged command window |
| 15:56.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: will result in the input prompt getting in front of 'mged>' prompt. the problem |
| 15:56.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: turns out to be various default scrolling text widget bindings that modify the |
| 15:56.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: cursor input position. there's a whole list of such bindings, but without |
| 15:56.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: testing this update just lists them and overrides the two that were obvious |
| 15:56.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: (page up/down). |
| 15:56.41 | rafa_ | how start brlcad? |
| 15:56.45 | clock_ | brlcad: the website is confusiong. According to "latest news", the latest version is 7.8.0 which is long time not true |
| 15:56.49 | clock_ | rafa_: mged |
| 15:56.54 | rafa_ | no |
| 15:57.26 | rafa_ | terminal returns: |
| 15:57.29 | rafa_ | comand not found |
| 15:57.33 | sisplau | http://www.brlcad.org/overview.html <- overview |
| 15:58.03 | rafa_ | in my sisten no mged |
| 15:58.12 | sisplau | system |
| 15:58.23 | rafa_ | i install package off SourceForge |
| 15:58.37 | clock_ | sisters of mercy |
| 15:58.41 | rafa_ | brlcad-7.8.4.deb |
| 15:59.10 | rafa_ | sistem of mercy? |
| 15:59.20 | rafa_ | sister |
| 15:59.21 | rafa_ | ? |
| 15:59.24 | rafa_ | watt |
| 15:59.28 | ``Erik | you probably have to add a special path |
| 15:59.41 | ``Erik | like, if you're using bash, export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:00.00 | sisplau | how I can run the program? |
| 16:00.05 | ``Erik | then you can do something like "mged /usr/brlcad/share/7.10.0/db/moss.g" |
| 16:00.33 | rafa_ | brlcad as instaled in my sistem in : |
| 16:00.42 | rafa_ | /usr/brlcad |
| 16:01.03 | ``Erik | ok, then you'll have a /usr/brlcad/bin directory with something around 400ish programs... the one you probably want first is mged |
| 16:01.29 | rafa_ | mged no in bin |
| 16:01.37 | rafa_ | and no in my systen |
| 16:01.47 | ``Erik | um, then ya don't have BRL-CAD installed? :) |
| 16:02.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS BUGS): |
| 16:02.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: Finally isolated the problem where certain operations in the mged command window |
| 16:02.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: will result in the input prompt getting in front of 'mged>' prompt. the problem |
| 16:02.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: turns out to be various default scrolling text widget bindings that modify the |
| 16:02.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: cursor input position, including page up/down. fix is simple, just do the same |
| 16:02.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: binding operation but don't move the cursor. |
| 16:02.34 | rafa_ | i intaled package off sourceforge |
| 16:02.34 | rafa_ | package.deb |
| 16:02.34 | rafa_ | brlcad-7.8.4.deb |
| 16:02.54 | clock_ | rafa_: then the .deb package is probably crap |
| 16:02.54 | sisplau | $ /usr/brlcad/bin/mged works |
| 16:03.10 | clock_ | rafa_: uninstall it and install the BRL-CAD from sources |
| 16:03.10 | sisplau | rafa_ abres terminal y pones ~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 16:03.17 | clock_ | rafa_: and complain to the Debian developers that they made crap |
| 16:03.28 | ``Erik | you should have /usr/brlcad/bin in your path before running mged |
| 16:03.30 | rafa_ | amigo sisplau: |
| 16:03.38 | rafa_ | no has este diretorio |
| 16:03.43 | ``Erik | mged will attempt to run binaries to do things, and those need to be in the path |
| 16:03.50 | sisplau | rafa_ abres terminal y pones /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 16:04.03 | clock_ | ``Erik: Debian has to produce a .deb file that works after being installed |
| 16:04.13 | ``Erik | no shit, clock? :D |
| 16:04.44 | clock_ | A typical example when an unauthorized person between the user and the developer tries to tamper with a readily packaged technology |
| 16:04.54 | rafa_ | please one moment |
| 16:04.59 | clock_ | In this cause a Debian developer tampered |
| 16:05.01 | ``Erik | of course, debian may have chosen another place to put it... /usr/brlcad is just the default... my fbsd packages put it in /usr/local/brlcad with an mged.sh in /usr/local/bin that pedro put together |
| 16:07.33 | clock_ | ``Erik: then the package after installing has to change the system PATH and make sure it's in effect |
| 16:07.33 | clock_ | ``Erik: just those Debian incompetents didn't do their homework properly |
| 16:07.33 | ``Erik | heh, :) *pets fbsd* |
| 16:07.33 | rafa_ | sorry meged found in my system |
| 16:07.34 | rafa_ | :) |
| 16:07.34 | rafa_ | but terminal returns it: |
| 16:07.34 | clock_ | rafa_: but you don't want meged but mged |
| 16:07.34 | docelic | debian developer "tampered" to make the package adhere to filesystem policy |
| 16:07.34 | rafa_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:07.34 | clock_ | but it stopped adhering to the functionality policy ;-) |
| 16:07.34 | clock_ | rafa_: Debian has the libraries screwed up |
| 16:07.34 | sisplau | rafa_ ubuntu? |
| 16:07.34 | clock_ | rafa_: tell them they should fix it |
| 16:07.34 | rafa_ | i use ubuntu |
| 16:07.35 | ``Erik | compiling from source should "just work" |
| 16:07.42 | clock_ | rafa_: ubuntu is a double layer of tampering |
| 16:07.43 | clock_ | first the Debian incompetents tamper and then the Ubuntu ones |
| 16:07.49 | ``Erik | just have to wait the 10 minutes for a compile and install :) |
| 16:07.53 | clock_ | a resul - program which doesn't even link, let alone run |
| 16:08.01 | rafa_ | ok |
| 16:08.05 | ``Erik | use the source, luke! |
| 16:08.05 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:08.18 | rafa_ | i download sourc |
| 16:08.21 | sisplau | i use ubuntu and it works |
| 16:08.27 | clock_ | rafa_: don't use unauthorized products of third parties and use the official product - BRL-CAD sources |
| 16:08.37 | rafa_ | ok |
| 16:08.44 | rafa_ | amigo sisplau |
| 16:08.51 | clock_ | sisplau: looks like Ubuntu sometimes works and sometimes not |
| 16:08.53 | rafa_ | qual é a versao que usas |
| 16:09.07 | ``Erik | hm, the bsd, irix, osX and solaris binaries are pretty 'official', in that they're compiled and packaged by either brlcad or myself |
| 16:09.11 | sisplau | i use ubuntu, debian, suse, fedora.... |
| 16:09.17 | clock_ | I came to a friend and he used "locate" on his Ubuntu and it persistently segfaulted :) |
| 16:09.35 | clock_ | Ubuntu 1.2.3.4 Ultimately Unusable |
| 16:09.39 | sisplau | apt-get is the best |
| 16:09.45 | ``Erik | redhat enterprise workstation 4 or openbsd are also ones we can effectively help out on |
| 16:09.57 | ``Erik | or the sgi altix suse |
| 16:10.18 | ``Erik | which obsd are you using? I have a 3.8 and a 4.0 |
| 16:10.27 | clock_ | 4.0 |
| 16:10.41 | clock_ | Now I am gonna compile 7.10.0 |
| 16:10.43 | ``Erik | you should make a port :D |
| 16:11.02 | ``Erik | I would, but theo's too much of a cockbite |
| 16:11.17 | sisplau | clock_ what distribution you prefer? |
| 16:11.18 | clock_ | For a port I need unstable system and that's impossible to switch back to stable |
| 16:11.19 | rafa_ | how compile? |
| 16:11.24 | rafa_ | ./configure |
| 16:11.26 | rafa_ | make |
| 16:11.27 | rafa_ | and |
| 16:11.28 | clock_ | and I have only one machine so they have bad luck with this port |
| 16:11.32 | rafa_ | make install? |
| 16:11.35 | clock_ | rafa_: make install? |
| 16:11.45 | clock_ | elapsed configuration blah blah |
| 16:11.46 | clock_ | make |
| 16:12.07 | rafa_ | and make install |
| 16:12.14 | rafa_ | or no? |
| 16:12.25 | clock_ | rafa_: yes make install |
| 16:12.26 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: clarify the distribution channels that need to be announced during release |
| 16:12.34 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 16:12.40 | rafa_ | ./configure prefix? |
| 16:12.47 | deltazap | but, but, opennurbs....i know i make install'ed you! |
| 16:12.51 | clock_ | I just type ./configure make make install |
| 16:12.58 | rafa_ | ok |
| 16:13.20 | clock_ | I want to see the button brl-cad added on my request |
| 16:13.45 | clock_ | brl-cad, as opposed to unnamed projects like Linux or OpenBSD, reacts with improvement and bugfixes, instead of calling people idiots and trolls |
| 16:13.47 | rafa_ | brlcad type solid works and inventor? |
| 16:13.55 | rafa_ | is easy? |
| 16:14.58 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 16:14.58 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 16:15.15 | rafa_ | how find on manual? |
| 16:15.19 | rafa_ | tutorial? |
| 16:15.22 | rafa_ | etc... |
| 16:15.31 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.og |
| 16:15.31 | ``Erik | org |
| 16:15.47 | rafa_ | amigo espanhol: |
| 16:15.52 | rafa_ | etas ai? |
| 16:15.59 | rafa_ | estas ai? |
| 16:16.23 | clock_ | I am sure solid works have a special button to create thread |
| 16:16.38 | clock_ | where you can select if you want withworth or Metric |
| 16:17.24 | ``Erik | clock: write up a tcl function or a procdb and chuck it in the patches section and we'll have that, too :D |
| 16:17.24 | sisplau | si |
| 16:17.34 | clock_ | and if you want left or right |
| 16:17.34 | clock_ | and which manufacturer manufactured the bolt |
| 16:17.34 | sisplau | you brazilian? |
| 16:17.35 | clock_ | in which year |
| 16:17.36 | clock_ | and the circumference of the manufacturer's grandfather penis |
| 16:17.40 | clock_ | and it stamps you nice 5.8 or 8.8 on the head |
| 16:17.42 | sisplau | where do you come from? |
| 16:17.46 | rafa_ | sim eu sou brasileiro |
| 16:17.56 | sisplau | samba! |
| 16:17.59 | sisplau | hahaha |
| 16:18.00 | clock_ | Kaoma Lambada! |
| 16:18.19 | rafa_ | no |
| 16:18.19 | clock_ | macarena too? |
| 16:18.19 | rafa_ | tche music!!!! |
| 16:18.19 | sisplau | hahaha |
| 16:18.20 | deltazap | clock_: girls aren't manufacturers silly! |
| 16:18.22 | rafa_ | de ondes es |
| 16:18.25 | sisplau | spain |
| 16:18.29 | sisplau | barcelona |
| 16:18.36 | clock_ | Los Lobotomos - Macabrena |
| 16:18.37 | deltazap | wait, i read that wrong |
| 16:18.40 | ``Erik | deltazap: they're factories? :D |
| 16:18.47 | rafa_ | Porto Alegre |
| 16:18.52 | rafa_ | Rio Grande do Sul |
| 16:19.32 | sisplau | um prazer meu amigo |
| 16:19.43 | sisplau | do you like futbol? |
| 16:19.45 | rafa_ | ok |
| 16:19.47 | rafa_ | yes |
| 16:19.50 | sisplau | hahah |
| 16:19.54 | clock_ | everyone lying in the sand or surfing? |
| 16:19.57 | sisplau | ronaldinho the best |
| 16:19.58 | rafa_ | GREMIO!!!!!!! |
| 16:20.10 | rafa_ | sim ele era do GREMIO |
| 16:20.18 | sisplau | ok i konw |
| 16:20.25 | sisplau | *know |
| 16:20.44 | rafa_ | friend sispalu do you use BrlCAD |
| 16:20.52 | rafa_ | he is hard to know? |
| 16:21.01 | clock_ | BRL-CAD doesn't it mean BRaziL-CAD? |
| 16:21.07 | sisplau | rafa run in the terminal window: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 16:21.16 | rafa_ | no ok |
| 16:21.22 | rafa_ | i download the source |
| 16:21.28 | sisplau | in my computer it works |
| 16:21.40 | rafa_ | but my question is : |
| 16:21.50 | rafa_ | BrlCAD is easy to use? |
| 16:22.09 | rafa_ | is type off Inventor |
| 16:22.16 | rafa_ | or SolidWorks? |
| 16:22.20 | rafa_ | or Varicad? |
| 16:22.25 | sisplau | i don't know |
| 16:22.29 | sisplau | i'm novice |
| 16:22.39 | rafa_ | is good software? |
| 16:22.46 | sisplau | i only want run the benchmark option |
| 16:23.16 | sisplau | is a good option for CAD in linux :/ |
| 16:23.19 | sisplau | i think |
| 16:23.31 | rafa_ | please one moment please |
| 16:23.36 | rafa_ | i go eat |
| 16:23.38 | sisplau | rblender |
| 16:23.41 | sisplau | blender |
| 16:23.41 | rafa_ | ok? :) |
| 16:23.53 | sisplau | eat? comer? |
| 16:23.57 | sisplau | hahaha |
| 16:23.58 | rafa_ | sim |
| 16:24.02 | ``Erik | BRL stands for "Ballistics Research Laboratory" |
| 16:24.17 | ``Erik | it's a US product dating back to '79... |
| 16:24.47 | sisplau | I read it in wikipedia |
| 16:25.56 | clock_ | It's US Army and M1A1 Abrams was made in it |
| 16:26.05 | ``Erik | (I'd smack clock for misinformation, but I've done it myself, claiming mged was "Monstrosity of a Gui EDitor" O:-) ) |
| 16:26.29 | clock_ | ``Erik: I misasked, didn't misinform :) |
| 16:26.34 | deltazap | so, when do i get a binary for osx? :-\ |
| 16:26.52 | clock_ | G. I. Joe U. S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory |
| 16:27.04 | ``Erik | no, the m1a1 was built on drafting paper with pencils, but in pieces... the first time someone saw the thing assembled was using the seed that became BRL-CAD |
| 16:27.05 | clock_ | if it doesn't work, you do some pushups and it's fine :) |
| 16:27.27 | ``Erik | deltazap: sf.net/projects/brlcad and click "download"... it's old, 7.6.6 ... |
| 16:27.39 | deltazap | i know, i've been using that version |
| 16:27.51 | deltazap | but i cannot for the life of me get 7.10 to compile |
| 16:27.55 | ``Erik | maybe brlcad will make another pkg/dmg for 7.10 |
| 16:27.57 | clock_ | I guess people who are into army fetish must love brl-cad :) |
| 16:28.00 | ``Erik | what's it do? |
| 16:28.06 | deltazap | i'm wishing for that |
| 16:29.14 | deltazap | it's still the same tcl error i've been getting |
| 16:29.25 | clock_ | rafa_: brl-cad is quite easy to use, it's good for ordinary work like http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 16:29.43 | clock_ | rafa_: I don't know how's solid works etc. maybe they can show you dimensions in the picture which brl-cad cannot |
| 16:29.45 | ``Erik | I haven't gotten it to work with native tcl/tk, so my configure line is something like ./configure --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build |
| 16:29.50 | deltazap | i'm trying --enable-only-benchmark so that i can compile and test things right now |
| 16:29.51 | clock_ | and brl-cad also cannot make 2d blueprints from the 3d |
| 16:31.31 | deltazap | ``Erik: i've tried that, but it's not doing anything. ./configure says that it's going to compile the version included |
| 16:32.21 | ``Erik | deltazap: can you paste the errors to a pastebin (like paste.lisp.org or rafb.net/paste ?) |
| 16:32.32 | deltazap | yeah, i will |
| 16:39.15 | deltazap | of course you say that after i started another attempt ;) |
| 16:41.54 | ``Erik | well, when ya get around to it *shrug* |
| 16:42.17 | ``Erik | I'm building, too, so *shrug* these old g5's, while smoking, aren't quite the 8 core opterons I like working on |
| 16:42.20 | clock_ | Should I remodel all the Ronja models with threaded fasteners? |
| 16:42.38 | deltazap | clock_: there's really no reason to |
| 16:42.50 | sisplau | ciao |
| 16:42.53 | *** part/#brlcad sisplau (n=gn-eleaz@163.Red-81-37-105.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) | |
| 16:43.38 | ``Erik | you're not doing stress/strain/sheer analysis on 'em, right? is all that effort worth the visual effect? |
| 16:45.25 | deltazap | http://rafb.net/p/d36N3F16.html -- my ./configure, so that you can see exactly what the system is going to try to build |
| 16:47.01 | clock_ | ``Erik: only for visual effect |
| 16:47.14 | deltazap | so, it is going to build tcl and tk |
| 16:47.17 | clock_ | ``Erik: is stress strain shear analysis possible with brl-cad? |
| 16:47.36 | ``Erik | not directly |
| 16:47.37 | clock_ | ouch brl-cad didn't compile :) |
| 16:47.41 | clock_ | do I need some nurbs-something? |
| 16:48.14 | ``Erik | openNURBS is being worked on to support the brep primitive... at the moment, you should probably turn it off |
| 16:50.47 | deltazap | i'm going to try that then |
| 16:52.39 | ``Erik | yeah, the c/c++ issue just hit me on obsd, heh |
| 16:53.43 | ``Erik | (one workaround is to "export CC=g++" before configure |
| 16:53.43 | ``Erik | ) |
| 16:53.56 | deltazap | what's the ./configure flag for opennurbs? |
| 16:54.38 | ``Erik | ./configure --help | grep -i nurb |
| 17:03.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: beginnings of image mgmt |
| 17:05.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: beginnings of a crude image handling function set. Will be able to save png and others some day... |
| 17:05.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add image.c to the library |
| 17:08.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: First victim of the libu image stuff. |
| 17:15.57 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:15.57 | clock_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:16.08 | clock_ | 1) How do I disable it when only enable flag is supplied? |
| 17:16.17 | clock_ | 2) Why was it autodetected as on, when not present? |
| 17:17.06 | ``Erik | --disable-opennurbs-build (anything that says --enable- has a free --disable, and anything with a --with- has a --without-), and that's how it was set up *shrgu* |
| 17:20.18 | *** join/#brlcad rafa_ (n=rafa@200.180.169.105) | |
| 17:21.38 | rafa_ | please |
| 17:21.59 | rafa_ | where i find files for brlcad |
| 17:22.01 | rafa_ | ? |
| 17:22.15 | rafa_ | i want open some for i see |
| 17:22.28 | clock_ | rafa_: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja.g |
| 17:22.39 | rafa_ | ok |
| 17:22.55 | rafa_ | site ronja for brlcad? |
| 17:23.19 | ``Erik | also; if you installed it in /usr/brlcad/, go into /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/<version>/db and there'll be a bunch of .g files |
| 17:27.20 | rafa_ | CloCk: No open |
| 17:27.25 | rafa_ | i dont see |
| 17:30.20 | rafa_ | Open file but no show in window |
| 17:30.34 | rafa_ | how open file? |
| 17:30.43 | rafa_ | File-open? |
| 17:30.56 | ``Erik | yeah, once you open it, run "tops" in the command window |
| 17:31.06 | ``Erik | to see what top level objects are in the file |
| 17:31.13 | ``Erik | pick one, and do "e object" |
| 17:31.30 | ``Erik | so if you opened m35.g, you'll see all.g in the "tops" command, and then you can do "e all.g" to see the scene |
| 17:31.53 | rafa_ | please |
| 17:32.00 | rafa_ | i open mged |
| 17:32.03 | rafa_ | ok? |
| 17:32.07 | rafa_ | and now? |
| 17:32.22 | rafa_ | press File |
| 17:32.28 | rafa_ | i press Open |
| 17:32.30 | rafa_ | Ok? |
| 17:32.34 | ``Erik | this'd be a good time for you to head to http://brlcad.org/ and get 'principles of effective modeling (#3 in the documentation list). it has step by step instructions with screenshots |
| 17:32.49 | rafa_ | friend |
| 17:33.09 | rafa_ | i only know see one file open in cad |
| 17:35.37 | ``Erik | actually, intro to mged would be better |
| 17:35.43 | ``Erik | http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 17:45.55 | brlcad | rafa_: what version are you using? |
| 17:46.04 | rafa_ | 7.8.0 |
| 17:46.29 | ``Erik | moin, brlcad |
| 17:47.45 | brlcad | howdy |
| 17:48.15 | deltazap | hmm, that build actually didn't throw any errors during the compile, but make benchmark fails |
| 17:48.31 | brlcad | rafa_: on the "mged>" promt, you should be able to type: opendb /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/havoc.g |
| 17:48.40 | brlcad | then "e havoc" |
| 17:49.07 | brlcad | that's just a quick example.. there are many other .g files in share/brlcad/7.8.0/db |
| 17:50.02 | rafa_ | ok |
| 17:50.11 | rafa_ | but i dont see in windos |
| 17:50.19 | rafa_ | no see the draw load |
| 17:50.42 | deltazap | http://rafb.net/p/5X9LMG18.html -- any idea what could be causing the no file error? |
| 17:50.53 | rafa_ | mged prompt returns it: |
| 17:50.53 | brlcad | rafa_: you're using Windows? |
| 17:51.01 | rafa_ | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/havoc.g: READ ONLY |
| 17:51.01 | rafa_ | BRL-GSI Paris Air Show Soviet HAVOC Helicopter (units=cm) |
| 17:51.07 | brlcad | ahh, that's good |
| 17:51.09 | rafa_ | no i am in ubuntu |
| 17:51.11 | brlcad | then "e havoc" |
| 17:51.15 | rafa_ | ? |
| 17:51.20 | brlcad | type: e havoc |
| 17:51.20 | ``Erik | deltazap: sure, it can't find the pix files? :D |
| 17:51.44 | brlcad | deltazap: rt is crashing/failing |
| 17:51.45 | rafa_ | write in prompt e havoc? |
| 17:51.46 | deltazap | but it should, they're all there? |
| 17:51.54 | brlcad | deltazap: run src/rt/rt |
| 17:52.02 | brlcad | does it display usage or a failure |
| 17:52.08 | brlcad | rafa_: si |
| 17:52.39 | deltazap | displays usage |
| 17:52.48 | rafa_ | no see |
| 17:52.49 | ``Erik | deltazap: you might have to set PIXDIR or something |
| 17:52.50 | deltazap | but i bet i'll fail when i run it |
| 17:53.08 | rafa_ | window is black |
| 17:53.17 | brlcad | rafa_: type "who" |
| 17:53.20 | brlcad | what does it say? |
| 17:53.27 | brlcad | havoc? |
| 17:53.54 | rafa_ | yes |
| 17:54.10 | brlcad | hmm |
| 17:54.17 | brlcad | type: rt -F/dev/Xl |
| 17:54.34 | brlcad | should pop open a window and show a helicopter |
| 17:55.01 | rafa_ | small |
| 17:55.05 | rafa_ | but yes |
| 17:55.05 | deltazap | i'm not actually in front of the machine i just compiled it on :X |
| 17:55.37 | rafa_ | go a compiled the source? |
| 17:56.16 | deltazap | http://rafb.net/p/y3JgjP62.html |
| 17:57.14 | rafa_ | ? |
| 17:58.27 | deltazap | paste of rt failing |
| 18:06.11 | ``Erik | otool -L /Users/zap/Desktop/brlcad/src/rt/.libs/lt-rt |
| 18:06.22 | ``Erik | ? |
| 18:07.08 | ``Erik | (it's telling you it can't find library symbols from tcl) |
| 18:07.13 | rafa_ | please one moment |
| 18:07.23 | rafa_ | i download the source |
| 18:07.43 | rafa_ | and i go to compile it |
| 18:08.00 | rafa_ | brlcad need Nvdia or Ati |
| 18:08.02 | rafa_ | ? |
| 18:09.47 | rafa_ | my video adpter is intel and sis |
| 18:09.52 | rafa_ | (onboard) |
| 18:10.05 | rafa_ | Run BrlCad with it? |
| 18:10.29 | joevalle1field | sure |
| 18:10.38 | ``Erik | intel and sis make very different video chipsets, but BRL-CAD should run with either provided your GL stuff set up right or you use the straight X driver |
| 18:13.08 | rafa_ | run? |
| 18:13.16 | rafa_ | with sis? |
| 18:16.03 | joevalle1field | yes |
| 18:16.30 | joevalle1field | onboard video should work fine |
| 18:18.36 | rafa_ | i am compiled BrlCad |
| 18:18.41 | rafa_ | please more one time |
| 18:20.53 | joevalle1field | rafa_: it's compiled? |
| 18:21.01 | rafa_ | no |
| 18:21.08 | rafa_ | more one time |
| 18:21.37 | joevalle1field | s/more one time/one moment please/ |
| 18:22.33 | ``Erik | ah, from pennsylvania, no wonder it's in the same healthiness pantheon as 'scrapple' |
| 18:22.58 | joevalle1field | mmmm, bacon dressing |
| 18:24.50 | ``Erik | <-- watching his intake, trying to keep his girlish figure O.o |
| 18:43.38 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:55.31 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: move the bif close from view_clewnup to view_end (so it actually gets called *cough*) |
| 18:56.00 | IriX64 | clewnup :) |
| 18:58.38 | ``Erik | yes. clewnup. |
| 18:58.57 | IriX64 | your pardon thought it was cleanup |
| 18:59.24 | ``Erik | it's like cleanup, but when the fingers and brain are getting tired |
| 18:59.30 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: |
| 18:59.30 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: use the data element of the bif to buffer up instead of assuming a streamed |
| 18:59.30 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: write (makes write-line void of side effects, thus re-entrant, removes the |
| 18:59.30 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: seek, and will allow non-streaming formats like png (at the cost of memory)) |
| 19:49.34 | deltazap | ``Erik: i understand that it can't find the tcl library symbols, but i don't know how to resolve this issue |
| 19:50.26 | ``Erik | otool -L <binary> is the mac equivelant of ldd |
| 19:50.39 | ``Erik | it'll say what libs are being linked in, if there's no tcl, or the wrong tcl, it'll show t hat |
| 19:51.56 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.lice.com/photos/brl-cad <------ i want mine to do this ;) |
| 19:54.48 | IriX64 | s/live/lice |
| 19:54.53 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:55.58 | ``Erik | you want BRL-CAD to remove lice? uh, we're good, but not THAT good, yo |
| 19:56.13 | IriX64 | heh apply liberally... |
| 19:58.11 | IriX64 | ``Erik that was booted from the winderez environment. |
| 19:58.43 | IriX64 | gotta find a decent windows xserver tho |
| 20:02.53 | ``Erik | um, cygwin comes with one |
| 20:03.01 | ``Erik | or you can drop some $'s and get something like hummingbird |
| 20:03.11 | ``Erik | though the wgl stuff SHOULD work |
| 20:03.45 | IriX64 | cygwin works, but id like to test compatibility |
| 20:03.58 | IriX64 | downloading xming from sourceforge |
| 20:06.39 | ``Erik | dangit |
| 20:06.41 | ``Erik | libpng error: Call to NULL write function |
| 20:06.41 | ``Erik | Ohs Noes! |
| 20:08.20 | ``Erik | what, xming? *shrug* |
| 20:08.28 | IriX64 | brlcad on xming |
| 20:09.09 | IriX64 | dont like the font but... |
| 20:12.44 | IriX64 | try the blog now |
| 20:23.56 | deltazap | ``Erik: it doesn't look like any .o's have anything linked |
| 20:27.52 | ``Erik | .o's never do, it's the binary itself and teh .dylib files |
| 20:28.12 | deltazap | oh d'oh |
| 20:28.28 | ``Erik | (a .o is just like a .a without the indexed mapping) |
| 20:29.17 | ``Erik | (the process of taking a collection of .o, .a, and references to .dylib (or .la) files is called "linking"... otool -L shows the runtime link table) |
| 20:30.58 | ``Erik | argh, I have one of the rt's saving 'intelligently' either pix or bw, but png is being a little bitch :( |
| 20:32.25 | IriX64 | confirmed i can package this thing for windows systems now ``Erik |
| 20:32.57 | IriX64 | will you guys support the brl-cad end of it :) |
| 20:34.50 | IriX64 | raytrace complete gorgeous |
| 20:35.42 | ``Erik | if it's a BRL-CAD issue, sure, if it's a distro/build issue, that'd be your job o.O |
| 20:35.56 | IriX64 | heh i can live with that |
| 20:36.16 | ``Erik | <-- notes that almost all the dev's don't touch windows |
| 20:36.31 | IriX64 | all your stuff is here i built with --enable-everything, even jove built |
| 20:37.30 | deltazap | ``Erik: otool only works on object files, not binaries |
| 20:40.27 | ``Erik | hum, I've used it on binaries... |
| 20:41.45 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/39698 |
| 20:42.49 | ``Erik | use 'file' to make sure it's a binary and not a shell script (libtool likes putting bash scripts where you expect binaries, for link hackery) |
| 20:43.15 | deltazap | k |
| 20:43.50 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad < --- ill shut up now :) |
| 20:44.33 | ``Erik | why's the rtedge image truncated? did you take the screenshot while it was still rendering? |
| 20:44.39 | IriX64 | yes |
| 20:45.09 | IriX64 | told you i'm an impatient little sot ;) |
| 20:49.00 | IriX64 | how do i chanfe the darn font, reading time... |
| 20:49.06 | IriX64 | change too |
| 20:49.12 | deltazap | ``Erik: ah, i see, didn't know that it would be in .lib |
| 20:49.18 | deltazap | .libs |
| 20:49.33 | brlcad | it's only in libs when you build shared, static are not wrapped |
| 20:50.17 | brlcad | deltazap: is libtcl installed in /usr/brlcad/lib? |
| 20:50.59 | ``Erik | ah, I'm building shared |
| 20:51.12 | deltazap | i've been running things from the directory of the source |
| 20:51.35 | brlcad | yes, I recall from your earlier pasting |
| 20:51.54 | brlcad | the "quick fix" is/was to install the libs before running the binaries |
| 20:52.14 | brlcad | hm, that's make a useful make target |
| 20:52.34 | brlcad | make install-libs or something |
| 20:53.42 | deltazap | yeah, libtcl8.5, libtclstub8.5, tcl8, tcl8.5, tclConfig are in /usr/brlcad/lib |
| 20:54.09 | ``Erik | kinda like "make install-depends"? O.o |
| 20:54.50 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, mebbie/sorta |
| 20:55.20 | brlcad | something like that on just src/mged would get "everything" except mged hopefully |
| 20:55.32 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543403.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:55.44 | brlcad | hola louipc |
| 20:55.52 | louipc | hey hey |
| 20:55.57 | ``Erik | um, cd src/mged && make install-depends will recurse down the defined DEPS and, um, install 'em... :D |
| 20:56.17 | ``Erik | (it'll take headers and docs for shtuff like png and tcl, too, but *shrug* what can ya do?) |
| 20:57.11 | ``Erik | hell, I wrote depends and install-depends so'z I could get the binary I want installed and ready as quickly as possible without all the other stuff I wasn't interested in :) |
| 20:57.20 | brlcad | that's what I just said |
| 21:00.01 | brlcad | i was more thinking if there was some set of binaries, like in his case where it can't run rt and btclsh whether you could just do that on mged to get all the lib debs |
| 21:00.24 | brlcad | instead of having to do it for rt and btclsh and whatever other binaries it tries to run without them being installed |
| 21:01.01 | brlcad | so you could do a two-pass and sort of be guaranteed it'd build, mac os x seems to be the only bitch right now (though I suspect aix has the same problem) |
| 21:02.16 | brlcad | nitfy image routine, btw |
| 21:02.35 | ``Erik | it's gotten much bigger and uglier, it does pix and bw, and I'm CLOSE on png... |
| 21:03.08 | ``Erik | hopefully it'll be able to do both block and streamed saves, so all our output stuff can just use it |
| 21:03.20 | ``Erik | but png is making my head hurt right now :) |
| 21:09.34 | brlcad | that probably could/should be a libfb routine as that's the layer that begins understanding pixels and images |
| 21:16.05 | ``Erik | yeah, I suggested that to lee, he disagreed *shrug* |
| 21:16.06 | ``Erik | he also asserted several times that rt can output streaming, even though it fseek()s, heh |
| 21:16.06 | brlcad | what was the basis for his disagreement |
| 21:16.06 | brlcad | suggested or asked? :P |
| 21:16.25 | ``Erik | heh, something like "I think it should go in libfb, is there a better place?" |
| 21:16.35 | brlcad | if you asked if it should be [whatever], his natural response is usually "no, you want to use [something not whatever] instead" :) |
| 21:16.46 | ``Erik | yeah, yeah, dumb move on my side, heh |
| 21:16.46 | brlcad | regardless of the whatever |
| 21:17.41 | ``Erik | I wasn't sure if things like pix-png should link libfb... *shrug* |
| 21:17.59 | brlcad | bu's not bad, probably would be my second choice unless someone wanted to migrate the basic pixel constructs from libfb to libbu too |
| 21:18.43 | ``Erik | he went into lala land trying to figure out the most assinine place, he hesitated when I said I'd put it in bu |
| 21:19.00 | brlcad | more a question of whether you want to consider image management basic .. right now that's *only* in libfb |
| 21:19.26 | ``Erik | (mebbe I shoulda just used SDL_Surface O:-) ) |
| 21:19.37 | brlcad | yuck |
| 21:20.00 | brlcad | bu's fine, so it can do images now too |
| 21:21.09 | brlcad | the image autosizing code that was replicated across libbu, libbn, and libfb could probably be moved back down into libbu then |
| 21:21.24 | ``Erik | though if things get simplified enough, most of util/ is going to be a second rate clone of ImageMagick's "convert" :/ |
| 21:22.02 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:22.10 | brlcad | though we do a few formats that they don't |
| 21:22.58 | brlcad | obscure unimportant ones of course |
| 21:23.00 | ``Erik | could probably make a case that those formats haven't mattered in the last decade or two :) |
| 21:24.29 | brlcad | they're actually a project we should merge/utilize with the new modeler for behind the scenes data management/conversion |
| 21:24.42 | brlcad | at least convert and/or libconvert |
| 21:28.35 | ``Erik | bastage, I ate one of those nasty celeste grease-disks :/ |
| 21:28.49 | brlcad | those are yummy |
| 21:29.47 | IriX64 | thats a better font :) |
| 21:30.08 | ``Erik | heh, I'm not so keen on 'em, and the nutritional facts are kinda skeery on 'em :) |
| 21:32.22 | *** join/#brlcad yky (n=yokoy@89.196.47.212) | |
| 21:33.39 | yky | hi |
| 21:36.09 | yky | are there any german brlcad users or brlcad workshops in germany? |
| 21:36.23 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 21:37.17 | brlcad | yky: yes, there are |
| 21:37.32 | brlcad | at least one of the devs is in germany too |
| 21:37.56 | yky | do you know, who it is? |
| 21:38.10 | brlcad | there is a tentative workshop being planned for later this summer (not finalized for sure yet) |
| 21:38.29 | brlcad | daniel rossberg |
| 21:38.38 | brlcad | yky: did you need something in particular? |
| 21:38.57 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-67.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:39.01 | yky | no, not really. |
| 21:39.10 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:39.37 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:39.49 | brlcad | ``Erik: so is there any end-user impact to that image hook yet? |
| 21:39.53 | yky | I hope to learn brlcad on a workshop more easy |
| 21:40.02 | brlcad | (i.e. NEWS worthy item) |
| 21:40.29 | brlcad | yky: it does help, though the tutorial series is pretty extensive too for some of the basics |
| 21:40.34 | ``Erik | ummmm, if not quite yet |
| 21:40.53 | brlcad | i'd not tested it myself yet |
| 21:40.55 | ``Erik | I mean, you can do rtedge -o PIX:blah.poo blah.g something |
| 21:41.01 | ``Erik | and get a PIX file |
| 21:41.10 | ``Erik | or -o BW:blahh.something and get a bw file |
| 21:41.45 | ``Erik | or blah.bw and get a bw file, or blah.pix and get a pix file... or blah.png and get an error on png_write_info() and an "Ohs Noes" message |
| 21:41.51 | ``Erik | oh, wait, thats not committed yet |
| 21:41.53 | brlcad | now that could be interesting on windows, hopefully doesn't key/abort on unknowns |
| 21:42.14 | ``Erik | if you give it COW:something or moo.cow, it'll assume pix |
| 21:42.21 | brlcad | e.g. -o "C:myfile" :) |
| 21:42.22 | ``Erik | but that's not committed yet I don't think |
| 21:42.56 | brlcad | what if you wanted a name like 'PIX:foo', is there a way to specify it? |
| 21:43.09 | brlcad | \: or somesuch? |
| 21:43.10 | ``Erik | now if you give it BW:C:\path\to\lame.img, it's smart enough to say it's a BW image at C:\path\to... |
| 21:43.19 | ``Erik | PIX:PIX:foo ? |
| 21:43.28 | brlcad | good enough |
| 21:43.42 | ``Erik | it's a q&d hack with "oh the horrors, I'll fix it, I promise" comments |
| 21:43.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:43.51 | brlcad | riight |
| 21:44.33 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/39702 |
| 21:45.34 | ``Erik | the phrasing of the image name was inspired by... oh my, ImageMagick's convert... |
| 21:46.42 | ``Erik | now if you give it -o PIX: blah.g, open() fails, ... :) |
| 21:47.21 | ``Erik | or if the file name is bigger than BUFSIZ |
| 21:48.54 | IriX64 | looked at it the ext part i understand the first part i don't |
| 21:49.42 | IriX64 | why string+5 its the first part you want no? |
| 21:50.24 | IriX64 | err filename +5 |
| 21:50.34 | ``Erik | that's after I know what it is, the +5 says "skip past the format describer" |
| 21:50.50 | ``Erik | I was gonna hit it with strtok |
| 21:50.56 | IriX64 | parts not shown ? |
| 21:51.00 | ``Erik | yes, it's supposed to be static (all the other 'internal' ones are static) |
| 21:51.13 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:52.04 | brlcad | kinda useful generic routine too |
| 21:52.06 | ``Erik | exposed functions are all bu_image_ |
| 21:52.22 | brlcad | should check for nullity |
| 21:52.28 | ``Erik | and public defines are all BU_IMAGE_ |
| 21:52.49 | ``Erik | that's done down in the public function |
| 21:52.51 | poolio | ``Erik: Just a note...you're using an incosistent coding style. you use braces for the if's in the FMT: searching section but not for the filename extensions |
| 21:53.19 | ``Erik | poolio: it's consistantly minimal. in the first block, each if ties to two statements. in the latter, just one. |
| 21:53.37 | poolio | Oh wow. Miss the semicolon. hah |
| 21:53.55 | yky | thx for input, I will contact daniel directly. |
| 21:53.58 | poolio | Also, is it neccesary to check for punctuation? |
| 21:54.25 | yky | bye |
| 21:54.32 | IriX64 | case png case pix case bmp :) |
| 21:55.17 | poolio | IriX64: case only works with ints |
| 21:56.01 | IriX64 | ah ok |
| 21:56.32 | kwizart | hi! is it possible to override --with-tcl=%{_includedir}/tcl-private \ ? so it can uses the system tcl ? |
| 21:57.28 | kwizart | i may need also system CFLAGS or LDFLAGS about finding libs ... |
| 21:57.54 | ``Erik | poolio: the punctuation is part of the syntax... |
| 21:58.13 | ``Erik | so I can do -o PIXELS.png |
| 21:58.52 | ``Erik | or my.pixbw |
| 22:00.13 | poolio | ``Erik: Well, it seems kind of like a waste. How often do you have filenames that end with png, bw, bmp, or pix |
| 22:02.32 | ``Erik | damnit, now ya went and made me ugly it up even more by annoying me |
| 22:02.40 | IriX64 | man define pix as 1 png as 2 etc and use that case thingy |
| 22:03.20 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/39702#1 |
| 22:03.22 | IriX64 | err |
| 22:03.50 | ``Erik | need a string comparison somewhere, irix, and I don't trust a hash :) |
| 22:04.49 | IriX64 | nice |
| 22:05.01 | poolio | Ok, that's just pointless. |
| 22:05.02 | IriX64 | what you posted is good |
| 22:05.05 | poolio | Why would you do that ``Erik ? |
| 22:05.14 | ``Erik | makes it trivial to add new names to the space :) |
| 22:05.21 | IriX64 | made his own case poolio |
| 22:05.42 | IriX64 | parole him :) |
| 22:05.45 | poolio | hah |
| 22:06.23 | ``Erik | ('cept I changed the semantic, damnit) |
| 22:06.49 | IriX64 | immaculate conception of code... interesting :) |
| 22:07.21 | IriX64 | eyes are watering, break time |
| 22:11.08 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: blocking output. working file guesser, pix-writer, and bw-write. beginnings of png writer. |
| 22:12.40 | ``Erik | heads |
| 22:12.42 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: fixed minor logic bug, heh |
| 22:13.33 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: link libpng in for image writing |
| 22:16.29 | brlcad | kwizart: it is possible, but still requires 8.5+ using the latest sources |
| 22:17.08 | brlcad | easiest is to force tcl building off, then append to flags as needed |
| 22:17.25 | kwizart | ok i have 8.5 on fc7 but maybe not the lastest sources !? which date are the lastest ? |
| 22:17.43 | kwizart | ok i have forced tcl not to build... |
| 22:17.45 | brlcad | 7.10.0 is the latest |
| 22:17.54 | kwizart | yes for brlcad |
| 22:17.55 | brlcad | via --disable-tcl ? |
| 22:18.05 | brlcad | or disable-tcl-build |
| 22:18.09 | brlcad | (same thing) |
| 22:18.15 | kwizart | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:18.17 | kwizart | yes ok |
| 22:18.20 | brlcad | and that, yes |
| 22:18.43 | brlcad | then just need to add --with-cflags="..." --with-ldflags="..." etc |
| 22:18.55 | brlcad | or CFLAGS=.. way |
| 22:19.11 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:19.14 | kwizart | but now i need to a little "rape" the configure.ac script to make it detect it (pastebin) |
| 22:19.32 | brlcad | shouldn't need to modify configure.ac |
| 22:20.00 | brlcad | if you turn it off and provide the right cflags/cppflags/ldflags, it should detect |
| 22:20.01 | kwizart | http://www.pastebin.ca/438882 |
| 22:20.35 | kwizart | ok i will try to paste everything to the Cflags and ldflags... |
| 22:20.58 | kwizart | but the same issue append with tk iwiget itcl and regex |
| 22:21.06 | brlcad | heh, well you pretty much turned the validty checks off |
| 22:21.29 | brlcad | note that you could have also just overrode during make as well |
| 22:22.22 | kwizart | one thought! is it supposed to work with gcc 4.1.1 ? |
| 22:22.30 | brlcad | TCL="-L/usr/lib64 -ltcl8.5" TK="-L/usr/lib64 -ltk8.5" make after a disabled build, and maybe with some CPPFLAGS defined |
| 22:22.41 | brlcad | sure, that should be fine |
| 22:23.03 | brlcad | should work with any gcc 2.95+ (though the 2's haven't been tested in a long while) |
| 22:23.06 | kwizart | because when i tryed to build openNURBS 4 (as system libs) it fails |
| 22:23.30 | brlcad | you don't need openNURBS, i'd just disable it |
| 22:23.58 | brlcad | we include openNURBS in our dist too |
| 22:24.10 | kwizart | but apparently not the version bundled inside brlcad fails |
| 22:24.15 | brlcad | I had to make several mods to it for gcc 4 to work |
| 22:24.35 | brlcad | yeah, they had a few minor issues |
| 22:25.05 | brlcad | feel free to pull a patchset and make it part of the fedora dist :) |
| 22:25.06 | kwizart | ok i will check your diff for it because i may need to use it as system libs... |
| 22:25.14 | kwizart | :) |
| 22:25.29 | brlcad | hopefully I didn't patch pre import |
| 22:25.56 | kwizart | well i will try that for now! thx for your tips... |
| 22:25.57 | brlcad | we also replace their build system, integrating it into ours so it builds cleanly |
| 22:26.17 | brlcad | theirs was a little flakey |
| 22:26.35 | kwizart | yes i saw! ... |
| 22:29.22 | kwizart | ITCL="-L/usr/lib64/itcl3.3 -litcl" ITK="-L/usr/lib64/itk3.3 -litk \ does this seems right also ? |
| 22:29.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: those negatives can crash if filename is short |
| 22:29.57 | brlcad | segfault |
| 22:35.28 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/libbu/Makefile.am): libraries are no longer LIBADD'd, they're defined in configure.ac in a _LIBS dependency variable, added PNG to BU_LIBS |
| 22:36.28 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: oop, htester gets PNG from BU_LIBS now |
| 22:50.53 | kwizart | what i cannot understand is that i have : |
| 22:51.07 | kwizart | checking for Tcl_Main in -ltcl... yes (like before..) |
| 22:51.18 | kwizart | but no system tcl is found also! |
| 22:53.49 | joevalle1field | it tries to build and run another test program further down |
| 22:54.11 | joevalle1field | is the error in your config.log? |
| 22:54.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: netbsd's library was ultimately reverted due to dependency complications, existing was fixed instead |
| 22:55.32 | brlcad | kwizart: it performs the library checks regardless of the setting just so there's a report of what is available/detected when people provide their build log |
| 22:56.01 | kwizart | i can provide it (uploading!) |
| 22:56.04 | brlcad | then, as joevalle1field mentioned.. it follows up with a more comprehensive functionality test |
| 22:59.39 | kwizart | http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/7/testing/brlcad/build.log |
| 23:01.50 | joevalleyfield | looks to me like the retry blasted the real failure |
| 23:02.27 | kwizart | This is the real failure : configure: libtcl was disabled, but no system Tcl library was found |
| 23:02.41 | joevalleyfield | :) |
| 23:03.01 | joevalleyfield | i'm only so interested because i was playing the same game earlier today |
| 23:03.27 | joevalleyfield | i want to see the test program fail-- config.log would be about 20 times longer than it is |
| 23:04.32 | kwizart | I suppose config.log may be deleted by the retry !? |
| 23:05.21 | joevalleyfield | are you setup to modify configure.ac? |
| 23:05.36 | joevalleyfield | i mean, you have all the autotools at hand? |
| 23:06.06 | kwizart | yes |
| 23:08.35 | joevalleyfield | how do i work a pastebin? |
| 23:09.19 | IriX64 | why does that log download instead of just opening up in a browser window |
| 23:09.29 | IriX64 | ? |
| 23:11.44 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/retry.m4): add option to disable the retry behavior of configure |
| 23:13.01 | joevalleyfield | i think cvs has a lag |
| 23:13.39 | joevalleyfield | if you change the 'if' on line 110 of retry.m4 to always evaluate false, it will nullify the retry |
| 23:14.08 | kwizart | ok |
| 23:16.49 | kwizart | if test "x$BC_RETRY" = "x" ; then |
| 23:17.29 | joevalleyfield | i'd make it 'if test "xy" = "x" ; then' |
| 23:19.03 | kwizart | ok building... |
| 23:19.52 | brlcad | yeah, good mod |
| 23:20.14 | brlcad | have to rerun autogen.sh after you edit the .m4 |
| 23:20.28 | kwizart | yes i do it by default ... |
| 23:23.03 | kwizart | ok no retry has been done... |
| 23:24.49 | kwizart | http://pastebin.ca/438960 |
| 23:25.48 | brlcad | that's one helluva configure line |
| 23:25.49 | brlcad | damn |
| 23:26.38 | joevalleyfield | line 13012 |
| 23:27.20 | joevalleyfield | the failure should always appear right above the cache dump |
| 23:28.05 | kwizart | i have tcl 8.5 on fedora 7 ... |
| 23:28.12 | brlcad | minor version < 5 |
| 23:29.08 | kwizart | but if i do return 0 in the program check it go fine... |
| 23:29.20 | brlcad | kwizart: for whatever reason, it's finding a different tcl header |
| 23:29.23 | kwizart | and fails with itcl |
| 23:29.24 | brlcad | 8.4 presumably |
| 23:29.34 | kwizart | but not tcl... |
| 23:29.54 | brlcad | so even if you set it to zero, something else will fail down the line |
| 23:29.56 | joevalleyfield | just type locate libtcl and see if you have multiple versions installed |
| 23:29.59 | kwizart | i'm using mock to build on a chrooter env... |
| 23:30.08 | brlcad | locate tcl.h for that matter |
| 23:30.34 | joevalleyfield | find /usr/lib -name "libtcl*" |
| 23:30.47 | brlcad | it's erroring on the header, not the lib itself |
| 23:30.56 | joevalleyfield | oh |
| 23:31.13 | joevalleyfield | my bad |
| 23:31.15 | brlcad | it's a #define sanity check in the test: #elif TCL_MAJOR_VERSION == 8 && TCL_MINOR_VERSION < 5 |
| 23:31.34 | brlcad | fprintf(stderr, "minor version < 5\n"); |
| 23:31.53 | brlcad | should probably have it print what it found |
| 23:32.12 | kwizart | do you mind the same issue appear for tk tlstub itcl itk and iwiget ? |
| 23:32.13 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734991.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:33.40 | brlcad | hm? |
| 23:33.48 | brlcad | depends really where the 8.4 is coming from |
| 23:34.58 | joevalleyfield | how does your chroot thing work? |
| 23:35.02 | joevalleyfield | are you in the chroot? |
| 23:35.20 | kwizart | no |
| 23:35.39 | kwizart | i'm running fedora core 6 on x86_64! |
| 23:36.14 | kwizart | i have a separate account that used to build things in a chroot env |
| 23:36.30 | brlcad | kwizart: what version is listed in your tcl.h header? |
| 23:36.47 | kwizart | packages are installed via yum rpm... |
| 23:36.50 | brlcad | presumably /usr/include/tcl.h or something you're providing |
| 23:36.59 | kwizart | on the chroot ... searching ... |
| 23:37.22 | brlcad | on whatever you specify, the chroot only matters if you're providing that path as a forced CPPFLAG |
| 23:37.39 | brlcad | unless you're building in the chroot, which you said you're not :) |
| 23:38.43 | kwizart | i have shame... |
| 23:38.47 | kwizart | #define TCL_VERSION "8.4"! |
| 23:43.55 | joevalleyfield | but i can turn off retry with a configure script now :) |
| 23:46.53 | IriX64 | you two... sorry to have intruded |
| 23:49.07 | kwizart | i was supposed to have tcl 8.5 ! Sorry to miss that ! I've ever fill a bug about tcl some time ago on redhat ... I will have to update tcl tk myself... |
| 23:49.21 | kwizart | is it supposed to work with pkg-config ? |
| 23:49.56 | joevalleyfield | no |
| 23:50.33 | brlcad | kwizart: you could just let it build the provided tcl :) |
| 23:51.18 | brlcad | it'll build and link it static |
| 23:51.34 | kwizart | yes i'm asking him the current state of art about this package... ! |
| 23:52.23 | joevalleyfield | if there's a yada.pc.in file in a source distribution it supports pkg-config |
| 23:52.47 | kwizart | i mean the redhat packager... hum i can also but it was supposed to fails about tcl/tk... i will try for now... |
| 23:53.24 | kwizart | joevalleyfield, i can also create it by hand !? |
| 23:53.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob added addr and make_name commands to archer |
| 23:54.40 | joevalleyfield | kwizart, you've exceeded my expertise |
| 23:55.28 | brlcad | you could create them.. but what for? |
| 23:55.30 | joevalleyfield | you can of course stick a tcl.pc file in the pkg-config dir, but nobody that depends on it would look there |
| 23:56.03 | joevalleyfield | because tcl still uses tclConfig.sh in /usr/lib |
| 23:57.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add pkg-config scripts |
| 23:58.00 | kwizart | how this work ? is this sh script is called at configure step ? |
| 23:58.47 | joevalleyfield | i'm really afraid i'm talking about a different thing than you are thinking of |
| 23:59.41 | joevalleyfield | tclConfig.sh is located and sourced by the configure script to setup TCL_LIB_SPEC and TCL_INCLUDE_SPEC |
| 00:00.58 | joevalleyfield | that is exactly parallel to but less elegant than pkg-config somepackage --cflags and ... --libs |
| 00:01.28 | joevalleyfield | there is a pkg-config macro that makes using them from configure.ac really convenient |
| 00:04.08 | kwizart | some fedora packaging guidelines say about creating it of at least fix errors, but i understand that if upstream do not uses them they won't be used by software linking to it... |
| 00:06.57 | louipc | yeah I'm trying to make pkgs for all that tcl stuff for my distro it's odd |
| 00:08.01 | kwizart | :) |
| 00:08.05 | louipc | I think I'm going to put the needed files into /usr/include and make the scripts point there rather than my build directory |
| 00:09.11 | joevalleyfield | you're talking about dependency on internal headers? |
| 00:09.13 | kwizart | i've asked the redhat packager about current status of tcl/tk 8.5 |
| 00:09.17 | louipc | because obviously if someone installs it they won't have a /home/louipc/build/itcl3.3 or whatever hehe |
| 00:10.11 | louipc | yeah tcl/tk isn't properly put together on my distro too. tclConfig.sh points to the packager's /home/whatever hah |
| 00:10.21 | kwizart | on fedora redhat package there is a /usr/include/tcl-private dir so i supposes those are internals headers ... |
| 00:10.38 | louipc | ah ok |
| 00:10.53 | joevalleyfield | that sounds like a reasonable way to do it |
| 00:14.31 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/439021 will this help any? |
| 00:15.24 | kwizart | [--redhatprovides] i didn't know what was the purpose of that! |
| 00:15.58 | IriX64 | redhat provided rpm? i rarely use it |
| 00:25.45 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: unbreak it for no sys png.h-ers, now need png cppflags |
| 00:32.25 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad <----- windows environment tutorial xwindows courtesy xming :) |
| 00:33.09 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: png_destroy_read_struct() takes pointers to pointers |
| 00:48.22 | kwizart | ok compilation with internal tcl/tk wend fine until : |
| 00:48.26 | kwizart | make[2]: *** No rule to make target `brep_stub.c', needed by `vers.c'. Stop.! |
| 00:48.42 | kwizart | make[2]: Leaving directory `/builddir/build/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.0/src/libwdb' |
| 00:54.02 | brlcad | ahh, bad ju ju |
| 00:54.15 | brlcad | wrong logic in Makefile.am |
| 00:57.50 | kwizart | related to openNurbs been activated or not ? (i will try with it ...) |
| 00:58.03 | brlcad | yeah, sorta |
| 00:58.12 | brlcad | there's a file missing from the source tarball |
| 00:58.31 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: bad dist logic, causes either brep_stub.c or brep.cpp to be left out of the dist. include the missing file |
| 01:00.16 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: we really really need a script that checks a dist source tarball for missing files... |
| 01:16.33 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): remove the WIN32 conditionals relating to the binary mode specifier on file opens. just keep the rb/wb mode since ISO/IEC 9899:1990 does specify it. |
| 01:26.31 | kwizart | *** buffer overflow detected ***: |
| 01:32.06 | kwizart | http://pastebin.ca/439113 |
| 01:34.56 | kwizart | is libfb the same as : /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libfb.so ? from the xorg modules ? |
| 01:40.11 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-137.uchicago.edu) | |
| 01:48.49 | IriX64 | i don't know about xorg but libfb is built here fine |
| 01:49.13 | IriX64 | far as i know not same but im a newbie |
| 01:55.05 | IriX64 | i don't see the rest of it did it get cut off? |
| 02:00.54 | louipc | looks like it's all there to me |
| 02:03.10 | kwizart | which rest ? lit is only the last quote of the build log ... |
| 02:23.50 | IriX64 | its a windows thing, sorry :) |
| 02:24.21 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:37.51 | IriX64 | i've assigned the msn butterfly to my desktop unix mged shortcut :) |
| 02:38.18 | dli | I want an ebuild (gentoo) for 7.10.0 |
| 02:51.17 | IriX64 | tempted to package Xming in the same dir and distribute to anybody who wants it |
| 02:57.40 | IriX64 | doing it anybody want to try it? |
| 03:14.54 | brlcad | kwizart: no it is not the same |
| 03:15.17 | brlcad | there are three of brl-cad's dozen or so libraries that can conflict with other projects |
| 03:15.35 | brlcad | (and brl-cad's predates them all) |
| 03:16.15 | brlcad | looking into the crash you've shown, though I believe that is a tcl8.5 bug :/ |
| 03:17.26 | kwizart | do tcl 8.5 is known stable ? |
| 03:20.12 | kwizart | well if i can help with this (including filling a bug to tcl - i will try to see this ...) |
| 03:20.28 | brlcad | they won't care without an isolated test case |
| 03:21.33 | kwizart | starting point :) |
| 03:21.55 | deltazap | yeah...so...i don't think i'll be getting 7.10 compiled on my own. I'll just be waiting until the binary release :) |
| 03:26.37 | kwizart | well i suppose to work on system tcl/tk first to get it work... |
| 03:28.26 | kwizart | Do regex is also a brlcad projet ? i don't know where i can find it as a system libs ?! I suppose i was included in boost-devel ? |
| 03:33.02 | brlcad | deltazap: sorry for the complications .. this upgrade includes a slew of build system changes and not all the kinks have been worked out yet apparently |
| 03:34.02 | brlcad | it's working on all platforms on my testing end -- which includes at least 7 distinct platforms -- but apparently has issues on others |
| 03:34.13 | brlcad | or is being masked by my cvs builds |
| 03:35.05 | brlcad | kwizart: libregex is often now bundled along with libc frequently .. try just -lc |
| 03:35.32 | brlcad | it's *not* the boost library |
| 03:35.56 | kwizart | ok |
| 03:39.36 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 03:39.36 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: john points out a blatent thread locking problem where a BU_SEM_SYSCALL is |
| 03:39.36 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: acquired prior to a bu_calloc() which itself also attempts to acquire that same |
| 03:39.36 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: semaphore.. how the hell did that ever work?? make it use RT_SEM_RESULTS |
| 03:39.36 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: instead since it is simply initializing the results array. also, toss in some |
| 03:39.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: flushed output to avoid flooding the mged command windows to see if that helps |
| 03:39.41 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: with a separate lockup issue. finally, remove the USE_FORKED_THREADS hack for |
| 03:41.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed hanging bug related to rtarea |
| 03:41.32 | brlcad | kwizart: it should similarly auto-detect by default.. and it checks libc -- see if it indicates in config.log why it fails |
| 03:44.31 | kwizart | 'im checking the old one here: http://pastebin.ca/438960 |
| 03:44.41 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: typo |
| 03:47.13 | kwizart | line 2565 : configure:44350: result: no |
| 03:51.20 | brlcad | ./configure: line 44334: 30367 Segmentation fault ./conftest$ac_exeext |
| 03:52.01 | brlcad | so for some reason, the sanity test crashed |
| 03:52.45 | brlcad | you have it -- the regcomp test from -lc succeeded |
| 03:53.01 | brlcad | it failed to pass the sanity "does it work" functionality test |
| 03:55.29 | brlcad | download http://bzflag.bz/~sean/regtest.c then compile it (gcc -o regtest regtest.c) and then run it (./regtest) to see if it crashes on you directly |
| 04:01.17 | kwizart | ok |
| 04:03.00 | kwizart | no it do not seems to craches... |
| 04:04.39 | brlcad | ze plot thickens |
| 04:04.56 | brlcad | that's the same test.. so some #define or compiler option is crashing it |
| 04:05.35 | brlcad | i'll look into it some more tomorrow, but got to run out for a bit.. |
| 04:05.46 | kwizart | well i'm trying the originale one... |
| 04:25.20 | kwizart | well i'm going to see later ... too late... bye ... |
| 05:22.39 | deltazap | brlcad: i completely understand |
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| 13:57.29 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 13:57.30 | smallfoot- | hi |
| 13:57.33 | smallfoot- | i saw 7.10 is out |
| 13:57.38 | smallfoot- | but is no win32 binaries |
| 13:57.43 | smallfoot- | when is 7.10 come for windows? |
| 13:57.45 | smallfoot- | is brlcad good? :d |
| 13:58.21 | smallfoot- | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:58.28 | smallfoot- | look, 7.8.0 for windows is 1 year old |
| 13:58.37 | smallfoot- | must make new 7.10 for windows please!! |
| 13:59.59 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 14:07.07 | brlcad | hello smallfoot- |
| 14:08.29 | brlcad | we don't have a dedicated windows developer, so releases for windows are .. infrequent |
| 14:08.45 | brlcad | if you're a windows dev, more than glad to have the help :) |
| 14:10.25 | brlcad | and as for whether it's "good" depends entirely on your familiarity and expectations .. it's not autocad and doesn't have a good graphical modeler interface. it does, however, have a powerful graphics engine and a lot of capabilities |
| 14:13.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/ (12 files): add initial pkg-config files for the core of brl-cad's libraries including libbn, libbu, librt, libdm, libfb, liboptical, libmultispectral, libwdb, libpkg, libfft, and libbrlcad |
| 14:15.33 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate all the new pkgconfig description files, and AC_SUBST a variety of system library symbols that they may need |
| 14:16.01 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into pkgconfig for the pkg-config descriptor files |
| 14:16.39 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added pkg-config files for core libraries |
| 14:22.13 | smallfoot- | why doesnt BRL-CAD enter the Google Summer of Code ? |
| 14:23.16 | smallfoot- | and why dont you say that BRL-CAD is a valuable tool in fighting terrorism, then you get 100 new full-time developers from the US ARMY lol |
| 14:23.24 | smallfoot- | what is needed to compile BRL-CAD? |
| 14:23.43 | brlcad | smallfoot-: we may host our own BSoC or BWoC |
| 14:23.54 | brlcad | a compiler and a shell ;) |
| 14:23.57 | smallfoot- | BSoC? BWoC? |
| 14:24.03 | brlcad | BRL-CAD Summer of Code |
| 14:24.12 | brlcad | we may do our own |
| 14:24.20 | smallfoot- | but google sponsors developers with money, and everybody knows about google summer of code |
| 14:24.26 | brlcad | not for this summer, but perhaps for this winter |
| 14:24.30 | smallfoot- | ok |
| 14:24.49 | smallfoot- | if you copmile on windows, what you need besides a compiler? |
| 14:24.59 | smallfoot- | need libraries and stuff? |
| 14:25.04 | brlcad | we might participate in GSoC next year too, depends if we get accepted |
| 14:25.15 | smallfoot- | okie cool |
| 14:25.22 | brlcad | on windows, you'll need Active Tcl's tcl/tk distribution |
| 14:25.26 | smallfoot- | BRL-CAD is same codebase as in 1970? |
| 14:25.33 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:25.49 | brlcad | the "same" .. no, it's been under constant development |
| 14:25.49 | smallfoot- | maybe would be better use wxWdigets? |
| 14:25.49 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:25.49 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 14:25.54 | smallfoot- | ever rewritten from scratch? |
| 14:26.04 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:26.23 | brlcad | you must be new to cad :) |
| 14:26.47 | smallfoot- | yes |
| 14:26.52 | smallfoot- | i never did any cad ever before lol |
| 14:26.56 | brlcad | brl-cad's more than a million lines of code |
| 14:27.10 | smallfoot- | but i thought "hey it would be cool to download a cad software, and do a computer case box" |
| 14:27.14 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:27.34 | brlcad | and we only touch on a small section of the "cad industry" |
| 14:27.47 | brlcad | in the big picture |
| 14:28.01 | brlcad | interface-wise, a "rewrite" per-se would be useful |
| 14:28.25 | brlcad | something that uses brl-cad's geometry engine and various converters and data processors, but just has a new interface |
| 14:28.37 | smallfoot- | oh the guy who made brlcad is dead :( |
| 14:29.11 | brlcad | yes, muuss passed away several years ago |
| 14:29.17 | smallfoot- | :( |
| 14:29.25 | brlcad | though his legacy lives on |
| 14:30.36 | smallfoot- | yeah, thats good |
| 14:30.59 | smallfoot- | why is your name brlcad? |
| 14:31.11 | smallfoot- | when i first saaw name brlcad in the channel, i thought it was a bot |
| 14:31.30 | brlcad | heh, well I can't do much about that now can I :) |
| 14:31.36 | brlcad | beep |
| 14:31.39 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 14:31.40 | brlcad | error, that does not compute |
| 14:32.00 | deltazap | oh great, brlcad is going to start to make no sense at all! |
| 14:32.10 | brlcad | deltazap: I ever did? :) |
| 14:32.24 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 14:32.39 | archivist | he never sleeps so he must be a bot |
| 14:32.47 | smallfoot- | when i run Windows installer of BRLCAD, it ask for Username and Company, but since its free software, its pointless, why it bother ask that? |
| 14:33.00 | deltazap | in another irc channel i idle in, we have a bot that's been around for quite a while now, i believe his megahal brain is somewhere around 60MB |
| 14:33.04 | smallfoot- | also, InstallShield is proprietary software, its better use MSI or NSIS |
| 14:34.00 | smallfoot- | does US ARMY use BRL-CAD to make tanks and then really make them? |
| 14:35.12 | smallfoot- | i wanted BRL-CAD but it installed Archer and MGED? |
| 14:35.31 | deltazap | mged is the interface to brlcad |
| 14:35.37 | brlcad | smallfoot-: usually the other way around -- the tanks exist, they are modeled in brl-cad and then analyzed |
| 14:35.37 | smallfoot- | okay |
| 14:35.53 | smallfoot- | deltazap, okay, maybe it should be made clear, not to confuse users |
| 14:36.03 | brlcad | primarily for vulnerability and lethality analysis, but often for other purposes too |
| 14:36.16 | smallfoot- | brlcad, oh, okay.. but is it possible to make something in BRLCAD, and then make an item from it? |
| 14:36.31 | brlcad | smallfoot-: i agree.. that old windows installer being used there is crap :) |
| 14:36.37 | brlcad | nsis would be way better |
| 14:36.45 | brlcad | just need someone to put it together :) |
| 14:37.07 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 14:37.16 | smallfoot- | you can put that on TODO list or something |
| 14:37.52 | smallfoot- | the About dialog, should have a logo, and a clickable URL to the website |
| 14:38.31 | smallfoot- | when i create "New", or something, it ask me to write database name, it should ask me when i save, not when i create |
| 14:38.58 | brlcad | smallfoot-: mged never "saves" |
| 14:39.11 | brlcad | everything is *always* saved |
| 14:39.18 | brlcad | different philosophy |
| 14:39.25 | smallfoot- | "* Use NSIS instead of InstallShield/MSI for Windows binary releases", ah, i see it |
| 14:39.34 | smallfoot- | oh, interestin |
| 14:39.45 | smallfoot- | but then if i open it, and change something, then i dont want to keep the change, then it sucks |
| 14:39.56 | brlcad | depends on the type of change |
| 14:40.03 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:40.32 | brlcad | but yes, if you actually edited geometry -- you'd have to make your intention evident before you edit, make a copy, etc |
| 14:41.09 | smallfoot- | okay, many people not used to this |
| 14:41.49 | smallfoot- | now, i noticed there is no toolbox where you can select what you want to create, you must use the Create menu, i think there should be a toolbox, like in any software |
| 14:42.28 | brlcad | smallfoot-: mged is powerful -- it's not easy to use or pretty or well organized :) |
| 14:42.29 | smallfoot- | now i created an item, but i want to undo it, so i pressed ctrl-z which i expected it to undo it, but instead it spins it lol |
| 14:42.39 | brlcad | 0 stops the spin |
| 14:42.43 | smallfoot- | someone should make it easier |
| 14:42.52 | brlcad | "someone" is working on that |
| 14:43.02 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 14:43.02 | brlcad | and you're welcome to help :) |
| 14:43.14 | smallfoot- | also there is "statusbar", which is pretty standard for all apps almost |
| 14:43.24 | smallfoot- | statusbar could be good, could provide valuable information |
| 14:43.27 | brlcad | there's a status bar |
| 14:43.30 | smallfoot- | oh, i dont see it |
| 14:43.45 | smallfoot- | oh, maybe its in that console thing? |
| 14:43.56 | brlcad | maybe don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.. it usually takes weeks to really "find" everything in mged |
| 14:44.02 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:44.04 | brlcad | it's not a discoverable interface -- requires training |
| 14:44.10 | smallfoot- | someone should make it less than weeks to find things lol |
| 14:44.12 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:44.14 | brlcad | going through the tutorials |
| 14:44.36 | deltazap | smallfoot-: it's not that hard once you get the hang of things |
| 14:44.59 | brlcad | seriously, we're not short of ideas either -- the deficiencies and powerful aspects are pretty well known |
| 14:45.25 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:45.39 | smallfoot- | this multipane mode is nice |
| 14:45.50 | deltazap | i still think that Pro/E is much more confusing than brlcad :P |
| 14:45.58 | brlcad | deltazap: :) |
| 14:46.05 | smallfoot- | but the menus has no shortcut keys, it would be good add some, it could increase productivity, so you can use keyboard instead of have to go through the menus with mouse |
| 14:46.21 | brlcad | there are shortcut keys |
| 14:46.31 | smallfoot- | they're not mentioned in the menu |
| 14:46.37 | smallfoot- | usually they're mentioned in the menu to the right |
| 14:46.37 | brlcad | and hidden key bindings |
| 14:46.41 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:46.49 | brlcad | there's not shortcuts to everything, but to many |
| 14:46.58 | brlcad | look for the underline |
| 14:47.04 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:47.12 | smallfoot- | ah, now i understand |
| 14:47.16 | smallfoot- | a little bit unconventional |
| 14:47.26 | smallfoot- | ADD ? |
| 14:47.32 | brlcad | nvr mind :) |
| 14:47.35 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 14:47.44 | brlcad | like you've had too much coffee |
| 14:47.45 | smallfoot- | the grid only shows in one pane when i use multipane mode |
| 14:47.48 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 14:47.50 | smallfoot- | ya, maybe :d |
| 14:47.55 | smallfoot- | no, i dont drink coffee lol |
| 14:48.21 | deltazap | brlcad: next friday, you may see a temporary increase in brlcad users |
| 14:48.21 | brlcad | when in multipane mode, operations are per pane |
| 14:48.23 | deltazap | ;) |
| 14:48.29 | brlcad | you can enable/disable features for any/all panes |
| 14:48.40 | brlcad | deltazap: oh? |
| 14:48.44 | brlcad | only temporary? :) |
| 14:49.09 | smallfoot- | an GUI rewrite would be good |
| 14:49.17 | brlcad | it would be very good |
| 14:49.20 | deltazap | we're doing a computer security competition and for one of the 1 hour challenges, it's going to be a brlcad model with a hidden message |
| 14:49.42 | brlcad | nifty |
| 14:49.48 | brlcad | how's it "hidden"? |
| 14:50.36 | smallfoot- | the font in the menus on Windows is big |
| 14:50.39 | brlcad | or maybe best to know know ;) |
| 14:50.45 | brlcad | s/know know/not know/ |
| 14:50.51 | brlcad | smallfoot-: it's configurable |
| 14:50.59 | deltazap | i'll let you find it when i get it done ;) |
| 14:51.22 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:51.44 | brlcad | the guy that wrote most of mged's gui is not only partially color blind, his eyesight's not so hot either :) |
| 14:51.51 | brlcad | he liked everything bigger than the defaults |
| 14:52.20 | brlcad | smallfoot-: you might like archer a little more |
| 14:52.36 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:52.36 | brlcad | it's missing a lot of functionality, but it's an interface more like what you're probably used to |
| 14:53.01 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png |
| 14:53.08 | smallfoot- | yeah, Arhcer looks nicer |
| 14:53.22 | smallfoot- | hmm |
| 14:53.23 | brlcad | basically it's still mged, just with a different gui |
| 14:53.28 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:53.31 | smallfoot- | now i understand |
| 14:53.45 | smallfoot- | so BRL-CAD is kinda the underlaying engine, and Archer and MGED are frontends? |
| 14:54.32 | brlcad | BRL-CAD also *includes* the underlying engine .. and yes, archer and mged are two modeler "frontends" |
| 14:54.45 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 14:54.52 | brlcad | there are also about 400 other processing tools |
| 14:54.53 | smallfoot- | which is best? which do you use? |
| 14:54.57 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:55.06 | smallfoot- | 400 other processing tools that use BRL-CAD? |
| 14:55.15 | brlcad | no, brl-cad includes 400 other tools |
| 14:55.54 | brlcad | mged and archer, and a couple others, however, are the "main" gui-based ones |
| 14:56.17 | brlcad | the rest are data processors of various sorts -- image processing, geometry conversion, data manipulation, procedural content creation,e tc |
| 14:56.29 | brlcad | it's a suite of tools |
| 14:57.00 | smallfoot- | oh, much, big, complex |
| 14:57.11 | smallfoot- | so which is best? which do you use? archer or mged? |
| 14:57.32 | deltazap | smallfoot-: more...unixy :) |
| 14:57.39 | brlcad | archer has a lot of "better" gui aspects, but it's still mostly a prototype design |
| 14:57.50 | brlcad | mged has "the power" |
| 14:58.15 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 14:58.29 | smallfoot- | is archer meant to be gui 2.0 or something? |
| 14:58.59 | brlcad | it was meant to be a prototype design, it could easily replace mged down the road if it added the missing functionality |
| 14:59.13 | smallfoot- | its intended to replace MGED? |
| 14:59.29 | brlcad | depends whom you ask |
| 14:59.42 | brlcad | that was probably some of the intention |
| 14:59.59 | smallfoot- | archer feels more nice and modern |
| 15:00.02 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 15:00.08 | brlcad | it's mostly written by the same guy that wrote mged, he's basically refactoring everything as he goes along |
| 15:00.14 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:00.19 | smallfoot- | i dont know how to draw things in archer |
| 15:00.37 | brlcad | me either, so can't help you much ;) |
| 15:00.40 | brlcad | again *prototype* |
| 15:00.42 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:00.58 | brlcad | i.e. pre-alpha |
| 15:01.07 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 15:01.10 | smallfoot- | hehe, okie |
| 15:01.18 | brlcad | functional, and a great improvement gui-wise |
| 15:01.29 | brlcad | but far from complete or usable for general use |
| 15:01.33 | brlcad | needs more work |
| 15:02.13 | brlcad | mged is functional and usable.. but requires a fair bit of learning before you can use it, but the docs are pretty extensive |
| 15:05.05 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:05.40 | smallfoot- | i cant get Archer to an usable state :( |
| 15:06.02 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:06.07 | brlcad | did you turn on "advanced" moded? |
| 15:06.10 | smallfoot- | yes |
| 15:06.19 | smallfoot- | it made more stuff appear, but all was "disabled" |
| 15:06.22 | smallfoot- | non-clickable |
| 15:06.25 | brlcad | ah |
| 15:06.31 | brlcad | well, you have to open a geometry file |
| 15:06.38 | smallfoot- | i made a "new" one |
| 15:06.44 | smallfoot- | i think |
| 15:06.55 | brlcad | open something that already exists |
| 15:07.05 | brlcad | see if you can display it, like moss.g |
| 15:07.11 | smallfoot- | MGED can only export to ascii and database? cant export to SVG, 3ds, dwf or any of formats? |
| 15:07.15 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:07.43 | brlcad | MGED reads and writes BRL-CAD format .. there are other tools (part of the 400) that read/write other formats |
| 15:08.24 | brlcad | two diagrams of interest perhaps: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 15:08.24 | smallfoot- | ah, open moss.g works |
| 15:08.42 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg |
| 15:08.44 | smallfoot- | it should be integrated in MGED and Archer to export to more formats |
| 15:10.25 | brlcad | here's an example pure brl-cad model made with mged: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg |
| 15:12.02 | smallfoot- | looks nice |
| 15:12.22 | smallfoot- | is autocad the industry de-fact thing? like photoshop is to graphics? |
| 15:12.50 | brlcad | they're one of the biggest, but no, not the defacto standard |
| 15:13.17 | brlcad | there are about 5 companies that are each multi-billion dollar profit makers |
| 15:14.09 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:14.15 | smallfoot- | which are the most popular software? |
| 15:14.25 | brlcad | ah, here's a better example of a prototypical model: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png |
| 15:14.56 | smallfoot- | complex drawing |
| 15:16.42 | smallfoot- | you know which are the most popular software? |
| 15:17.19 | brlcad | pretty much |
| 15:17.41 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487468F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | |
| 15:18.08 | smallfoot- | which is? |
| 15:20.14 | brlcad | depends which part of the cad domain you care about |
| 15:20.43 | brlcad | there are at least one or two major products in each industry: http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:21.40 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:22.08 | smallfoot- | oh, its pretty big industry |
| 15:22.28 | brlcad | pro/e, unigraphics/nx, solidworks, autocad, gibbscam, catia |
| 15:22.46 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CAD_companies |
| 15:23.10 | smallfoot- | oh, i only heard about autocad |
| 15:23.47 | smallfoot- | i never done anything CAD, CAE, CAM stuff before, and its kinda confusing, and difficult to use software =/ |
| 15:24.05 | smallfoot- | do you know any good software? any easy software? any noob software? |
| 15:25.01 | brlcad | brl-cad's pretty easy to me :) |
| 15:25.07 | brlcad | but not noob-friendly |
| 15:25.31 | brlcad | CAD software is hard in general -- I don't know anyone that has it "simplified down" |
| 15:25.45 | brlcad | the closest you'll probably get is something non-CAD but still modeling |
| 15:26.23 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:26.39 | smallfoot- | ya, i tried Blender, its some 3D software, but its difficult too lol |
| 15:26.48 | smallfoot- | it seems all kind of CAD and 3D software is difficult lol |
| 15:27.03 | brlcad | you probably also mean "free", which none of those I listed are free by a long shot ;) |
| 15:28.58 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 15:29.20 | smallfoot- | even Google SketchUp is difficult for me lol |
| 15:32.03 | brlcad | well then.. |
| 15:32.22 | brlcad | maybe the problem isn't the software :) |
| 15:32.28 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 15:32.28 | brlcad | maybe too many skittles :) |
| 15:32.31 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 15:33.02 | smallfoot- | isnt there any software, where you can write stuff like <box width="50cm" height="20cm" depth"10cm" color="red"> or something? |
| 15:33.04 | brlcad | so, you're going to whip out an nsis installer for brl-cad ? :) |
| 15:33.13 | smallfoot- | i never used NSIS |
| 15:33.18 | smallfoot- | never made an installer before |
| 15:33.26 | brlcad | good chance to learn ;) |
| 15:33.32 | smallfoot- | true |
| 15:33.37 | brlcad | lots of fame, glory, and exposure |
| 15:33.47 | smallfoot- | yeah, and maybe sex too |
| 15:33.49 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 15:34.22 | brlcad | that 7.6.0 windows installer reports about 100,000 downloads |
| 15:34.35 | smallfoot- | wow |
| 15:34.37 | smallfoot- | cool |
| 15:34.45 | brlcad | so you'd get a lot of exposure if you made it better ;) |
| 15:35.03 | smallfoot- | i install NSIs now, gonna check it out |
| 15:35.53 | brlcad | I have a beautiful example nsis installer for you to go by if you get that far |
| 15:36.43 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:38.16 | smallfoot- | ok, i did an example installer :p |
| 15:38.34 | brlcad | i mean a fully-functional example from a real app :) |
| 15:38.39 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 15:38.41 | brlcad | bz's is splended |
| 15:38.45 | smallfoot- | i wonder if i need write registry keys? |
| 15:39.10 | brlcad | should not |
| 15:39.28 | brlcad | here's a good example: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.8.exe?download |
| 15:39.34 | smallfoot- | some reg keys needed if you want it to be uninstallable |
| 15:40.35 | brlcad | the actual nsis for that example: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/ |
| 15:40.54 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:40.55 | brlcad | smallfoot-: not necessarily - you can provide an uninstaller |
| 15:41.18 | smallfoot- | ya, i guess |
| 15:41.34 | smallfoot- | but example shows what reg keys to use to put an uninstalled in "Add/Remove programs" |
| 15:42.51 | brlcad | yeah, that would be the easiest for starters |
| 15:43.01 | brlcad | i'm saying that eventually, you'd want that to be optional |
| 15:44.50 | smallfoot- | its standard to use "Add/Remove progams", so i think that should be used, thouhg you can uninstall from start menu too |
| 15:46.02 | smallfoot- | i dont think its possible to choose a whole directory in NSIS, you must choose file for file, when creating the config? |
| 15:46.45 | brlcad | i don't remember |
| 15:47.26 | brlcad | i believe you can |
| 15:47.36 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 15:47.43 | brlcad | yeah, you can |
| 15:47.44 | smallfoot- | you used NSIS before? |
| 15:47.50 | brlcad | did you even read the example?? :) |
| 15:47.56 | smallfoot- | i read example.nsi |
| 15:48.03 | smallfoot- | and example2.nsi |
| 15:48.11 | brlcad | no, the functioning one |
| 15:48.19 | smallfoot- | hmm |
| 15:48.30 | brlcad | 11:39 <@brlcad> here's a good example: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.8.exe?download |
| 15:48.34 | brlcad | 11:40 <@brlcad> the actual nsis for that example: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/ |
| 15:48.38 | smallfoot- | oh those |
| 15:48.48 | smallfoot- | but i thouht thats for fancy unneeded graphics? |
| 15:49.20 | brlcad | eh, that's only one aspect of many |
| 15:49.31 | brlcad | you do see that there's an nsis file in there? |
| 15:50.22 | brlcad | and the "fancy unneeded" graphics might not be strictly necessary, but they are also part of the polish that would be nice to have |
| 15:51.25 | smallfoot- | indeed |
| 16:04.09 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.1: add an initial manpage for the brlcad-config script |
| 16:11.08 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: added pkg-config scripts |
| 16:13.08 | smallfoot- | you dont happen to know how to copy a whole directory instead of just a file in NSIS? |
| 16:19.41 | smallfoot- | ah, i figured it out |
| 16:32.24 | smallfoot- | so you want the installer to have Modern UI like the one in BzFlag? |
| 16:40.00 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:40.13 | brlcad | though the actual images don't have to be sorted out |
| 16:40.39 | brlcad | we have artwork I can stub in for them.. more just having them be a placeholder -- could even just leave the same images |
| 16:40.54 | smallfoot- | ah, okie |
| 16:40.59 | smallfoot- | you have any .ico ? |
| 16:42.31 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:43.04 | smallfoot- | okie, you send me? |
| 16:45.17 | brlcad | here's a crappy old one: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/doc/html/manuals/small-eagleCAD.ico |
| 16:46.00 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 16:48.12 | brlcad | need to regenerate a better .ico from http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 16:50.32 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 16:50.45 | smallfoot- | much nicer logo |
| 16:50.51 | smallfoot- | i dont have any icon software tool thouhg |
| 16:52.52 | smallfoot- | i guess its okay for me to use the bzflag as a base? |
| 16:53.53 | brlcad | sure |
| 16:54.10 | brlcad | the images are easy to replace |
| 16:55.50 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 16:57.28 | smallfoot- | this "Modern UI" that BzFlag makes the installer a bit more complex |
| 17:00.53 | brlcad | it's also got optional installation componenets, which is something BRL-CAD needs too |
| 17:02.16 | smallfoot- | yeah |
| 17:02.23 | smallfoot- | for "Example" directory |
| 17:02.25 | smallfoot- | and stuff like that |
| 17:02.30 | smallfoot- | maybe for Archer |
| 17:07.32 | smallfoot- | you sent me a bad icon, it was 96x83 dimensions |
| 17:08.34 | brlcad | yeah, the main sections would probably be example geometry, documentation, developer libraries/headers, & applications (converters, benchmark suite, MGED, and Archer) |
| 17:09.04 | brlcad | i thought that icon seemed corrupt |
| 17:09.26 | smallfoot- | yeah, the NSIS wouldnt compile, it warned about the icon |
| 17:09.40 | smallfoot- | i can use the icon from bzflag |
| 17:16.36 | smallfoot- | example geometry is in BRL-CAD\Samples? |
| 17:16.59 | brlcad | ? |
| 17:17.20 | brlcad | it's wherever you put it |
| 17:17.57 | brlcad | for a normal unix install, it's in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.0/db |
| 17:18.17 | brlcad | for windows ... |
| 17:36.55 | smallfoot- | we need side.bmp of 164x314 |
| 17:37.16 | smallfoot- | and header of like 150px width (or wider) and 57px high |
| 17:47.59 | brlcad | okay |
| 17:49.28 | smallfoot- | there is doc\htlm\manuals |
| 17:49.39 | smallfoot- | but doc\html\ is empty, its only the folder manuals there |
| 17:50.24 | brlcad | you mean in the 7.6.0 release? |
| 17:50.36 | brlcad | ignore what's in there ;) it's missing a lot of things |
| 17:51.16 | brlcad | in a source distribution, it'll be most of the items under the doc/ directory, as well as other docs on the website like the tutorial pdfs |
| 17:51.59 | smallfoot- | 7.8.0 |
| 17:52.09 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 17:52.16 | smallfoot- | didnt know there are pdfs |
| 17:53.17 | smallfoot- | you want user to be able to choose not to install start menu icons? |
| 17:54.26 | brlcad | yeah |
| 17:54.50 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 18:08.45 | smallfoot- | you dont have BRL-CAD installed on any Windows machine atm? |
| 18:15.41 | smallfoot- | wow, this InstallShield really is dumb |
| 18:17.19 | brlcad | done with the graphics, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/header.bmp http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/side.bmp |
| 18:17.41 | smallfoot- | awesome |
| 18:19.23 | smallfoot- | someone should compile the .exe files so the icons are attached to them |
| 18:19.51 | smallfoot- | so we need a icon and perhaps but only maybe a uninstall icon, i dont think its really needed, but we could have it if wants |
| 18:36.53 | smallfoot- | can you get me an good ico? |
| 18:38.48 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/ |
| 18:39.01 | brlcad | was just something quick |
| 18:39.13 | brlcad | dunno if the larger sizes are valid, can't test really well |
| 18:43.44 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-11.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:45.45 | smallfoot- | best would be if all 4 was in 1 .ico file |
| 19:05.24 | smallfoot- | Error finding icon resources: installer, uninstaller icon size mismatch - see the Icon instruction's documentation for more information -- failing! |
| 19:05.25 | smallfoot- | Error - aborting creation process |
| 19:05.43 | smallfoot- | the icon you sent me apparently isnt good enough for NSIS |
| 19:05.57 | brlcad | which one did you use? |
| 19:06.03 | smallfoot- | 32x32 |
| 19:06.27 | smallfoot- | which is 16x16 |
| 19:06.28 | brlcad | saying it's a mismatch.. so uninstaller must be different size |
| 19:06.41 | smallfoot- | though the bzflag icon was 32x32 and it worked fine |
| 19:06.54 | brlcad | bzflag had multiples embedded |
| 19:06.57 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 19:07.01 | smallfoot- | now i uncommented the uninstaller icon; Error finding icon resources: installer, uninstaller number of icons doesn't match - see the Icon instruction's documentation for more information -- failing! |
| 19:07.03 | brlcad | so no mismatch |
| 19:07.10 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 19:07.18 | smallfoot- | i guess we need one with both 16x16 and 32x32 |
| 19:07.21 | smallfoot- | you could make that? |
| 19:07.27 | brlcad | or an uninstaller with 32 |
| 19:07.44 | brlcad | i'm working on a multisized .ico |
| 19:08.53 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 19:09.48 | smallfoot- | do you think you could compile 7.10.0 and we roll out a new release? |
| 19:10.41 | brlcad | can do a 7.10.2 at the end of this month, there are a couple fixes that needed to be made already |
| 19:10.47 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 19:10.49 | brlcad | including windows build fixes |
| 19:10.59 | smallfoot- | thought 7.10.0 was latest, that was the version of the source at SF.net i saw |
| 19:11.01 | smallfoot- | cool |
| 19:11.05 | brlcad | it is the latest |
| 19:11.08 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 19:11.11 | smallfoot- | but you say 0.2 |
| 19:11.21 | smallfoot- | err, 10.2 |
| 19:11.21 | brlcad | yes, that's the next release version |
| 19:11.25 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 19:11.30 | smallfoot- | col |
| 19:11.30 | brlcad | in about two weeks |
| 19:11.32 | smallfoot- | cool* |
| 19:11.33 | smallfoot- | nice |
| 19:11.46 | smallfoot- | the installer is pretty much done, i believe |
| 19:11.46 | brlcad | trying to stick to our monthly release schedule |
| 19:11.50 | smallfoot- | just needs be compiled and tested |
| 19:11.53 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 19:12.15 | smallfoot- | you done with the icon soon? |
| 19:12.15 | brlcad | if I stay off irc a few minutes :) |
| 19:12.18 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 19:13.06 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 19:13.11 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 19:16.03 | dli | I want a brlcad-cvs package for gentoo |
| 19:20.22 | ``Erik | so go make one? |
| 19:22.05 | dli | ``Erik, I couldn't make it run |
| 19:22.15 | bjorkBSD | try again? :) |
| 19:23.20 | dli | bjorkBSD, kidding? |
| 19:24.06 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 19:47.25 | smallfoot- | brlcad, you working on the ico? |
| 19:52.28 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:53.11 | smallfoot- | good |
| 19:53.14 | smallfoot- | you have it ready soon? :d |
| 19:53.24 | brlcad | hopefully |
| 19:54.39 | smallfoot- | good |
| 20:11.39 | dli | I got a gentoo ebuild for cvs, it's compiling now |
| 20:18.45 | brlcad | there we go, that should be something |
| 20:18.54 | brlcad | not a great icon, but it'll do for now |
| 20:19.22 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/mossicon.ico |
| 20:19.42 | brlcad | question, though.. which icon is this for? |
| 20:19.54 | brlcad | MGED != BRL-CAD |
| 20:20.21 | brlcad | if it's an mged icon, i'll have to create another |
| 20:22.06 | smallfoot- | this one is primarily for installer |
| 20:22.12 | smallfoot- | but one for MGEd would be good too |
| 20:24.01 | brlcad | okay, yeah, for installer, that'll do just fine |
| 20:24.02 | smallfoot- | Error finding icon resources: installer, uninstaller icon size mismatch - see the Icon instruction's documentation for more information -- failing! |
| 20:24.02 | brlcad | well I did verify this one .. it has 48, 32, 16 embedded, should be standard win32 format |
| 20:24.06 | brlcad | uninstaller might have to match exactly or something |
| 20:24.15 | brlcad | what uninstaller icon are you using? |
| 20:24.27 | smallfoot- | the one that came with bzflag |
| 20:24.36 | smallfoot- | which is 16x16 and works with bzflag.ico which is 32x32 strange |
| 20:25.07 | brlcad | ah, it only has 16 and 32 |
| 20:25.12 | brlcad | perhaps it has to match all sizes |
| 20:25.17 | brlcad | i'll make one up |
| 20:38.29 | IriX64 | heh -A=opteron, who you kidding IriX |
| 20:42.02 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-33-245-220.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 20:42.02 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 20:45.00 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/440165 <----- hehehehe should i build it? |
| 20:45.12 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.176.51) | |
| 20:53.33 | IriX64 | theres a picture of an mged icon on my blog now, yours if you want it |
| 20:54.45 | smallfoot- | where your blog? |
| 20:55.08 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad |
| 20:55.15 | IriX64 | use the - |
| 20:57.00 | IriX64 | thanks to whoever put the opteron specific machine.h together for gcc :) |
| 20:58.28 | brlcad | smallfoot-: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/mossicon.ico and http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/uninstall.ico updated |
| 20:58.34 | brlcad | they are matching now |
| 20:58.54 | brlcad | if it still errors, then there must be some other rule about which sizes/depths must be in there and which are optional |
| 21:00.40 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 21:00.55 | smallfoot- | where you got uninstall icon from? |
| 21:03.22 | brlcad | i just made it |
| 21:05.44 | smallfoot- | okay it works now |
| 21:06.00 | smallfoot- | but the installer needs some tweaking |
| 21:06.03 | brlcad | hm, good to know |
| 21:07.18 | IriX64 | smallfoot, if you want that eagle icon, let me know how to get it to you |
| 21:07.50 | IriX64 | e-mail comes to mind |
| 21:09.13 | brlcad | eagle icon? |
| 21:09.24 | IriX64 | look on my blog |
| 21:09.51 | brlcad | eh, that's the one already in the distro |
| 21:10.19 | IriX64 | whup sorry then |
| 21:10.30 | IriX64 | didnt know he already had it |
| 21:10.31 | brlcad | tis an ugly logo :) |
| 21:10.42 | IriX64 | cmon, i kind of like it |
| 21:10.55 | brlcad | i've looked at it for too many years |
| 21:11.03 | brlcad | the colors kill baby seals |
| 21:11.52 | IriX64 | heh change it to green then |
| 21:12.10 | brlcad | it's an option (and already done) |
| 21:12.23 | brlcad | but more important to get the nsis installer working first, regardless of the icon |
| 21:12.36 | IriX64 | true sorry for intruding |
| 21:12.40 | brlcad | the moss world one should do just fine for that |
| 21:13.50 | IriX64 | that the one thats on the ftp? |
| 21:14.08 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:14.30 | IriX64 | that is also nice |
| 21:14.56 | brlcad | really shouldn't have text, since the icon has it's own label |
| 21:15.02 | brlcad | but oh well |
| 21:15.04 | IriX64 | ill have to blow it up to get a better look just a sec... |
| 21:15.48 | dli | how do I specify system tcl tk libraries for configure? |
| 21:17.26 | IriX64 | brlcad that dir is no longer there? |
| 21:17.55 | IriX64 | ah i see tmp oh well |
| 21:27.17 | smallfoot- | the uninstall icon doesnt look like an uninstall icon on 16x16 |
| 21:31.21 | IriX64 | heh 41 minutes to build it i'll install this and shut up now |
| 21:32.57 | brlcad | smallfoot-: yes, I know |
| 21:33.21 | brlcad | neither icon is what I'd consider good or done, but it'll placehold for now |
| 21:38.40 | smallfoot- | i can use default NSIS icons |
| 21:38.42 | smallfoot- | they look nice |
| 21:38.45 | smallfoot- | i should use default? |
| 21:39.12 | deltazap | the install icon could be 'in' and the uninstall icon could be just 'Z' |
| 21:40.25 | smallfoot- | deltazap, what? |
| 21:42.01 | deltazap | strained mged joke ;) |
| 21:42.10 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 21:42.25 | smallfoot- | okie, i dont that, im a noob |
| 21:42.57 | smallfoot- | the installation routine seems to work fine |
| 21:43.05 | smallfoot- | but the uninstallation needs some tweaking |
| 21:43.15 | smallfoot- | there seems to be no recursive deletion |
| 21:43.32 | smallfoot- | i hope there is a way so i dont have to manually tell it each directory to delete |
| 21:45.24 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:48.01 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/440238 <-- pardon the instrusion, this is at a C:\ prompt |
| 21:49.01 | smallfoot- | bjorkBSD, /r works at File (for install), but /r dont work for "Delete" |
| 21:49.38 | bjorkBSD | dos? |
| 21:49.55 | bjorkBSD | IriX64 uses dos too, smallfoot-. |
| 21:50.02 | bjorkBSD | i think it's dos3.11 :) |
| 21:50.22 | IriX64 | heh |
| 21:50.30 | IriX64 | frame buffer is up man |
| 21:51.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/440241 have a peek :) |
| 21:52.00 | IriX64 | ill shut up now, poof :) |
| 21:52.09 | brlcad | deltazap: heh |
| 21:52.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: |
| 21:52.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: initial brlcad-config script template that, similar to pkg-config, can report on |
| 21:52.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: various cflags/cppflags and libs/ldflags for 3rd-party developers to use for |
| 21:52.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: linking against brl-cad's various libraries individually or collectively. could |
| 21:52.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: undoubtedly use some more work and additional features like reporting on other |
| 21:52.13 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: various configure-time and compile-time options that get used for a given build, |
| 21:52.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: but this should get the ball rolling. |
| 21:52.31 | brlcad | in and kill, actually :) |
| 21:52.42 | brlcad | otherwise e and Z ;) |
| 21:53.50 | smallfoot- | brlcad, i can use deafult NSIS icons, they look nice, should I use default? |
| 21:54.33 | brlcad | whatever you think looks best for starters .. but leave the others stubbed in the .nsis file so it can be set/changed later if it requires some edit |
| 21:56.00 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/fb.pc.in: should have libm for libbu |
| 21:56.37 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the brlcad-config script during configure |
| 21:57.08 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: install the brlcad-config script into the script/bin directory, include along with the distribution. include and install the manpage for it too. |
| 21:59.50 | IriX64 | what should i draw? :) |
| 22:00.33 | smallfoot- | computar |
| 22:04.00 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad <---- about=good work sean whoever you are |
| 22:04.25 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/history.txt: include a big ol disclaimer that this isn't a write-up, it's just old notes being kept for reference for a future writeup |
| 22:04.26 | smallfoot- | brlcad, only icon names need be change,d the .nsi file dont need be touche |
| 22:04.59 | brlcad | smallfoot-: sounds good then |
| 22:05.24 | smallfoot- | i just cant decide wether to use current icons or the NSIS default ones |
| 22:06.52 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added a brlcad-config configuration script |
| 22:08.32 | smallfoot- | NSIS takes like <10mb |
| 22:08.36 | smallfoot- | old installer took 15mb lol |
| 22:08.43 | brlcad | smallfoot-: use the current .. it'll motivate me to clean them up come time to release |
| 22:08.52 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged should now correctly find its resources if you turn off tcl/tk |
| 22:08.58 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 22:09.11 | brlcad | unless you want to stab at making some nice icons too |
| 22:10.33 | smallfoot- | okay, iguess the libraries shoudlnt be optional lol |
| 22:10.39 | smallfoot- | since it doesnt run without them |
| 22:11.08 | brlcad | the libraries aren't but the developer headers would be |
| 22:11.27 | brlcad | and various developer libraries |
| 22:12.51 | smallfoot- | lib\ is needed |
| 22:13.22 | brlcad | yep, at least portions |
| 22:13.33 | brlcad | mged has to find it's run-time libraries |
| 22:13.42 | smallfoot- | ya, so i dont make \lib optional? |
| 22:13.47 | brlcad | we're talking about two separate things, or your misunderstanding |
| 22:14.01 | brlcad | no, \lib doesn't become optional |
| 22:14.08 | smallfoot- | ok, it was optional, i change so it isnt |
| 22:14.22 | smallfoot- | ill keep includes\ optional ? |
| 22:14.31 | brlcad | there are additional things that will ultimately go into the windows installer (that are not currently a part of the installer) |
| 22:14.39 | brlcad | sure, keep includes optional |
| 22:14.56 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 22:18.31 | smallfoot- | I had "Doc\" optional, but Archer doesnt run without Doc\ :( |
| 22:18.54 | smallfoot- | so what should i do? |
| 22:20.55 | IriX64 | brl-cad just came of age (check blog for dosshot1 and dosshot2) |
| 22:21.21 | brlcad | smallfoot-: that's because there's stuff in Doc that doesn't belong there |
| 22:21.28 | brlcad | just make it non-optional for now |
| 22:22.12 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 22:22.14 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 22:24.16 | smallfoot- | i believe it to be kinda done now... |
| 22:25.25 | smallfoot- | so what should i do? |
| 22:25.28 | smallfoot- | do you have a windows box? |
| 22:25.42 | smallfoot- | we roll out this for 7.8.0 or we wait until 7.10.2 ? |
| 22:26.09 | brlcad | 7. |
| 22:26.18 | brlcad | 7.8.0 is long dead :) |
| 22:26.32 | brlcad | i do have a windows partition somewhere available to test |
| 22:26.40 | brlcad | i'd like to get the nsis setup into CVS |
| 22:26.56 | smallfoot- | i can send it to you, and you put it in CVS? |
| 22:27.05 | brlcad | yeah, that'll work |
| 22:27.14 | smallfoot- | you use .7z ? |
| 22:27.59 | brlcad | p7zip? |
| 22:28.05 | smallfoot- | 7-Zip |
| 22:28.07 | brlcad | i can install it if needed |
| 22:28.10 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 22:28.15 | smallfoot- | well, i can send whatever you need |
| 22:28.19 | smallfoot- | which format you want it in? |
| 22:28.25 | brlcad | whatever really |
| 22:28.29 | smallfoot- | zip works? |
| 22:28.47 | smallfoot- | do you want the 10 mb binary too? |
| 22:28.58 | brlcad | probably not, but upload that too |
| 22:29.00 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 22:29.06 | brlcad | just separately |
| 22:29.10 | smallfoot- | ah okie |
| 22:29.17 | smallfoot- | i can send them over IRC to you? |
| 22:29.20 | brlcad | anonymous ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming |
| 22:29.20 | smallfoot- | or how you want them? |
| 22:29.24 | smallfoot- | oh, okie |
| 22:29.37 | smallfoot- | then i dont need zip them |
| 22:29.44 | smallfoot- | ill zip them anyways lol |
| 22:31.47 | smallfoot- | okay, its uploaded |
| 22:31.59 | smallfoot- | brlcad-7.8.0.exe is the binary installer, you can make your own if you want |
| 22:32.18 | smallfoot- | nsis.zip is the artwork, icons, brlcad.nsi install script, etc |
| 22:33.31 | smallfoot- | you extract the nsis.zip file into brl-cad\nsis\, so there is an nsis directory in the same place as the bin, lib, includes, samples, doc directories |
| 22:35.13 | smallfoot- | i've tested it some, and it seems work good on my computer, but please read the brl-cad.nsi file so you can see what it does, and preferably run it on a computer where you have backup of stuff, cuz i dont wanna be the dumbass noob who wrecked it all for any of you lol |
| 22:36.15 | smallfoot- | this is my first time i touched NSIS |
| 22:47.01 | brlcad | smallfoot-: cool! |
| 22:47.49 | smallfoot- | works good? |
| 22:47.51 | smallfoot- | nice :) |
| 22:48.30 | smallfoot- | you managed to compile the .nsi into a setup? use the latest version of NSIS 2.25 |
| 22:50.08 | brlcad | still looking through the files |
| 22:51.51 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 22:53.08 | smallfoot- | try uninstall too |
| 22:53.28 | smallfoot- | the uninstaller uses some scary RMDir /r (recursive) |
| 22:53.34 | smallfoot- | not me |
| 22:53.41 | brlcad | i know it wasn't you :) |
| 22:53.43 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 22:53.51 | brlcad | month and a half ago |
| 23:14.57 | brlcad | ~smallfoot-++ |
| 23:15.02 | brlcad | that is f'ing sweet |
| 23:15.12 | smallfoot- | thanks :) |
| 23:15.13 | smallfoot- | cool |
| 23:15.16 | brlcad | way cool |
| 23:15.18 | smallfoot- | so its in CVS yet? :) |
| 23:15.55 | smallfoot- | let some other developer check it out too, so that we can be sure it works as intended |
| 23:19.24 | brlcad | there's some minor little details to clean up like files names and things that have changed since 7.8 but it's looking great |
| 23:19.32 | brlcad | and is just *way* nicer than the installshield |
| 23:20.29 | smallfoot- | ya, it is |
| 23:20.31 | smallfoot- | i hate installshield |
| 23:20.42 | smallfoot- | installshield put stuff in Windows\ too |
| 23:21.20 | smallfoot- | also, file size reduces by a third of what it was |
| 23:21.33 | brlcad | if you don't mind your real name getting listed and posted throughout the net, I'd like to credit you properly |
| 23:21.40 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 23:21.49 | smallfoot- | first and last name? |
| 23:21.55 | brlcad | whatever you'd like it to say |
| 23:21.57 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 23:22.29 | smallfoot- | but dont write smallfoot :D |
| 23:22.34 | brlcad | haha |
| 23:22.42 | brlcad | only in the cvs commit messages :) |
| 23:22.49 | smallfoot- | no, not smallfoot lol |
| 23:22.59 | brlcad | else can't backtrack :) |
| 23:23.13 | smallfoot- | whats that? |
| 23:23.51 | brlcad | someone reviewing the history |
| 23:23.57 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 23:24.04 | smallfoot- | cant you just write brlcad or jonathan? |
| 23:24.12 | smallfoot- | or "anonymous" or something |
| 23:24.31 | brlcad | i'll write whatever you want, i'm referring to two different things |
| 23:24.38 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 23:24.46 | smallfoot- | ya, on the backtrack |
| 23:24.53 | brlcad | one is the credit and news items that will get distributed .. that'd be your real name |
| 23:24.57 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 23:25.21 | brlcad | the other is the cvs commit message that is only read by other devs, where I'd ideally list both at least once |
| 23:25.28 | brlcad | so we have a tie to whom it is |
| 23:25.31 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 23:25.39 | smallfoot- | but people will laugh at me if it says smallfoot :( |
| 23:25.45 | smallfoot- | i rather it not say smallfoot lol |
| 23:25.53 | brlcad | nah, they wouldn't |
| 23:25.56 | brlcad | but that's find |
| 23:25.56 | smallfoot- | ok |
| 23:26.02 | brlcad | i'll just put "the foot guy" |
| 23:26.05 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 23:26.12 | smallfoot- | cant it be "anonymous" or "jonathan" ? |
| 23:26.34 | smallfoot- | if not, then put whatever you want, it really dont matter that much lol |
| 23:26.45 | brlcad | heh, it could be .. yeah, it just doesn't matter |
| 23:26.53 | brlcad | it's only read by other devs reviewing history |
| 23:27.00 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 23:27.06 | brlcad | but that's fine, i'll put jonathan |
| 23:27.10 | smallfoot- | okie, cool |
| 23:27.12 | smallfoot- | thanks, that be great |
| 23:27.15 | brlcad | but more important is what to put for the news |
| 23:27.19 | smallfoot- | yeah |
| 23:28.12 | smallfoot- | where will my name show? website? |
| 23:28.16 | smallfoot- | i gonna show my bro and brag :D |
| 23:29.17 | IriX64 | not too shabby, it works with X-Win32 too ``Erik :) |
| 23:29.38 | IriX64 | lemme try a shot |
| 23:29.39 | brlcad | smallfoot-: it'll show up all over the place |
| 23:29.53 | brlcad | it'll be forever in brl-cad's sources too |
| 23:29.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/ (6 files): initial import of a superb nsis installer for BRL-CAD, provided by jonathan |
| 23:30.10 | smallfoot- | cool :d |
| 23:30.25 | brlcad | when full binary distributions are put together, announcements are sent out to various websites and news channels |
| 23:30.41 | brlcad | it ends up getting replicated several dozens of times over |
| 23:31.24 | brlcad | aside from just being permanently credited in brl-cad's history and authorship files |
| 23:32.06 | IriX64 | font is huge, but it works |
| 23:32.08 | smallfoot- | cool |
| 23:32.10 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 23:32.11 | brlcad | so, going to tell your name? |
| 23:32.14 | smallfoot- | i did |
| 23:32.16 | smallfoot- | in notice |
| 23:32.23 | brlcad | ahh |
| 23:32.25 | smallfoot- | just did again |
| 23:32.25 | smallfoot- | saw? |
| 23:32.25 | brlcad | didn't notice :) |
| 23:32.29 | brlcad | yes |
| 23:32.30 | brlcad | got it |
| 23:32.31 | smallfoot- | okie, good |
| 23:32.36 | smallfoot- | you didnt notice the /notice lol |
| 23:33.06 | brlcad | i think you're maybe the second person in about three years to use notice |
| 23:33.44 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 23:33.54 | smallfoot- | ya, it actually isnt used very much |
| 23:34.06 | smallfoot- | my friend occasionally notice floods me to get my attention though |
| 23:36.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:37.04 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad <---- with X-win32 :) |
| 23:37.23 | smallfoot- | X-Win32 = proprietary software |
| 23:37.25 | smallfoot- | aeeeeeh |
| 23:37.41 | IriX64 | just testing, should work with any xserver |
| 23:37.49 | IriX64 | works with xming too |
| 23:37.55 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 23:38.30 | IriX64 | unix rides the windows wave & word to your mother ;) |
| 23:39.09 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 23:39.16 | IriX64 | heh |
| 23:41.45 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (AUTHORS NEWS): credit Jonathan Bonomo for the outstanding new BRL-CAD installer for Windows using NSIS. a huge improvement over the installshield horror, thanks! |
| 23:41.47 | brlcad | there will be a write-up with better detail when the next windows binary is posted |
| 23:44.20 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 23:45.44 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/440358 <---- heh gave it something to do, i'll shut up again :) |
| 23:45.59 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 23:46.41 | brlcad | that you did |
| 23:46.50 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: special thanks to bonomo for the new windows installer |
| 23:46.59 | smallfoot- | Size: 9.96107e+07mm -eek- |
| 23:47.31 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:48.37 | brlcad | IriX64: you should try compiling with CFLAGS=-DBSD .. see if that makes the "bu_nice_set() SysV error: wanted nice 10! check bias=0" error go away |
| 23:48.47 | brlcad | if it does, I can put in a fix |
| 23:48.56 | brlcad | if it fails to compile, I can put in a fix |
| 23:49.12 | IriX64 | ty ill try it |
| 23:49.26 | IriX64 | may take a while tho :) |
| 23:51.13 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 23:55.38 | brlcad | IriX64: never mind, I have a fix already |
| 23:55.45 | brlcad | just getting rid of that old sysv code |
| 23:55.57 | IriX64 | was just configuring, you sure? |
| 23:56.07 | IriX64 | ok then |
| 23:56.16 | brlcad | yeah, thanks though |
| 23:56.20 | IriX64 | sure |
| 23:56.25 | brlcad | this should make that warning go away |
| 23:56.32 | IriX64 | good |
| 23:56.52 | IriX64 | still works though it seems benign here |
| 23:59.25 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: restructure bu_nice_set() so we don't get an error (seen at least under cygwin/mingw) about 'SysV error: wanted nice 10! check bias=0' .. getting rid of the obsoleted sysv code that used nice() to try to set a value. |
| 23:59.43 | brlcad | it is benign |
| 23:59.45 | brlcad | just annoying |
| 00:00.22 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for setpriority for src/libbu/parallel.c in bu_nice_set() |
| 00:38.51 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad <--- moonlight shot rendered on xwin32 :) |
| 00:40.08 | IriX64 | heh you do it i'm busy with 7.10 ;) |
| 00:40.23 | brlcad | i just might :P |
| 00:40.39 | IriX64 | give me a copy when you get it done :) |
| 00:44.23 | IriX64 | haha xwin32 takes screen shots too, bonus, i might buy that thing |
| 00:49.51 | ``Erik | or a big sphere |
| 00:51.34 | IriX64 | yellow ;) |
| 00:53.00 | IriX64 | ``Erik look for ],, in configure.ac (the x11 link functionality part i think) |
| 00:53.31 | ``Erik | um, why? |
| 00:54.03 | IriX64 | my x11 support isnt there and don't tell me i don't have x11 :) |
| 00:55.47 | ``Erik | um, that's testing for link ability, after the header has been found |
| 00:56.02 | ``Erik | check your config.log for why it's unable to check the X libs |
| 00:56.19 | IriX64 | ok ty |
| 00:57.11 | IriX64 | thought acchecklib checked the libs |
| 00:58.29 | IriX64 | the jove thing has already been reported i take it? |
| 01:02.34 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:02.53 | brlcad | IriX64: this would be a great time to learn CVS and work from the latest CVS sources |
| 01:03.04 | brlcad | so that changes can be immediately applied and retested |
| 01:03.29 | brlcad | didn't matter before relase, but now it would help |
| 01:04.36 | IriX64 | ill think about it had a horrible experience with cvs don't want it repeated (guy hacked his way in using my ip and deleted most of the project, I swore off cvs after that) |
| 01:06.35 | brlcad | ehm, that would only be if you were running a cvs server |
| 01:06.57 | brlcad | otherwise, you're going to be looking at problems that have already been fixed again |
| 01:10.23 | ``Erik | um, using your ip? O.o like a MiM attack, or? o.O (and since you'll only have read access to the repo, like everyone else in the world does, there's no risk, right?) |
| 01:10.33 | IriX64 | ok ill take the sourcefoge tutorial and set up a client |
| 01:13.24 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/Makefile.am: initial makefile template for nsis files, add files to the dist |
| 01:14.10 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac misc/Makefile.am): generate nsis Makefile, traverse into it |
| 01:14.19 | brlcad | the new nsis installer is pretty sweet |
| 01:14.30 | brlcad | gonna have to one-up it on os x |
| 01:17.45 | ``Erik | nsis as in nullsoft? |
| 01:22.54 | joevalleyfield | only way to one up it is to make bloody aqua work ;) |
| 01:23.00 | IriX64 | well rsync seems to be working, will that do? |
| 01:24.41 | joevalleyfield | irix, rsync for what? |
| 01:24.56 | IriX64 | getting the latest brlcad sources |
| 01:25.10 | IriX64 | sourceforge supports it |
| 01:25.27 | joevalleyfield | let me go read about that |
| 01:25.41 | IriX64 | all right |
| 01:25.44 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:26.03 | joevalleyfield | actually, could you give me a link? |
| 01:27.02 | joevalleyfield | wow |
| 01:27.06 | joevalleyfield | that's magical |
| 01:27.48 | joevalleyfield | for a non-committer who is on irc here, that is probably ideal |
| 01:28.35 | IriX64 | http://sourceforge.net/docs/E04/en/#viewcvs |
| 01:28.48 | IriX64 | yeah |
| 01:31.23 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/440464 <---- bottom of the paste what the farkle is yes/lib :) |
| 01:31.51 | IriX64 | just noticed it don't know where it first happened |
| 01:33.55 | IriX64 | rsync needs a progress indicator :) |
| 01:34.42 | joevalleyfield | --progress ? |
| 01:34.55 | IriX64 | too late :) |
| 01:39.09 | ``Erik | why do you need a progess indictor? go do, y'know, something else... *shrug* |
| 01:40.00 | IriX64 | heh im playing with the source tarball does that qualify as something :) |
| 01:40.40 | IriX64 | that yes lib is probably my fault mea culpa |
| 01:45.03 | IriX64 | what platform has 7.10.0 successfully been built on? |
| 01:46.15 | brlcad | wow, didn't know there was rsync access added myself |
| 01:46.36 | joevalleyfield | brlcad, you could use that to back the thing up |
| 01:48.00 | brlcad | i do for the cvsroot |
| 01:48.07 | brlcad | just didn't know there was user-level |
| 01:48.43 | brlcad | or is it the root he's syncing out.. heh |
| 01:49.23 | IriX64 | sourceforge says you can *extract that way |
| 01:52.02 | joevalleyfield | it is whole lot easier to strip X out this time than it was a year and a half ago |
| 01:55.38 | IriX64 | somebody already did it for you, it doesn't build :P |
| 01:58.23 | IriX64 | found X, it was hiding behind W ;) |
| 02:11.11 | joevalleyfield | irix, what platform are you on? |
| 02:11.40 | IriX64 | no secret cygwin on windows xp+ |
| 02:11.50 | joevalleyfield | ok |
| 02:11.57 | IriX64 | err pro not + |
| 02:13.24 | IriX64 | amd model 3800+ cpu |
| 02:14.33 | IriX64 | does everything i want it to shrug |
| 02:16.55 | joevalleyfield | i've never built on cygwin |
| 02:17.29 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad pix no 72 some of the things its currently doing |
| 02:18.24 | IriX64 | i've probably never built on what your running:) |
| 02:18.39 | joevalleyfield | :) |
| 02:18.44 | joevalleyfield | mac |
| 02:18.53 | IriX64 | as i said :) |
| 02:20.29 | IriX64 | runs irssi too but i prefer to just click on a url in the channel window and auto go there |
| 02:28.29 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 02:34.41 | IriX64 | rsync pulling source now neat |
| 02:34.54 | IriX64 | might stay up tonight :) |
| 02:48.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: condense the commercial support information, but credit SURVICE Engineering accordingly instead of the focus on SURVIAC |
| 02:51.35 | IriX64 | the blog has a cygwin build of 7.8.4 running on the windows desktop, xwin32 is pretty good... seamless xwindows |
| 03:02.06 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Obtain.html: stray reference to the old address though it doesn't meantion the old agreement. replace with the same info from README |
| 03:21.40 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (photonmap.c sh_plastic.c): removed the spaced out pointer dereference format inconsistencies |
| 03:25.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (photonmap.c sh_plastic.c): ws |
| 03:39.55 | deltazap | IriX64: irssi is the only irc client, really |
| 03:40.09 | deltazap | it's the only one worth talking about ;) |
| 03:40.16 | IriX64 | how bout bitchX ;) |
| 03:41.16 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: use libbu memory management.. there's a bug in here somewhere where a right tree node becomes non-null invalid. also seems to be a massive amount of leakage going on .. stuff not getting free'd.. |
| 03:42.18 | IriX64 | deltazap: practice what you preach :P |
| 03:44.30 | deltazap | 4i4r7s7s5i 8i8s 9t3h3e 10b11e11s12t 2c2l6i6e4n4t 7h5a5n8d8s 9d3o3w10n 11:11P |
| 03:45.00 | IriX64 | thats kick material :) |
| 03:45.20 | bjorkBSD | whoa i just saw colors! |
| 03:45.21 | deltazap | haha, but it's one line :P |
| 03:46.21 | deltazap | if i had been spamming figlet or cowsay, then it would be controversial |
| 03:46.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: missed a realloc, use calloc where we need it be zero |
| 03:48.14 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: crashes during photonmap raytrace of m35 where right node is invalid |
| 03:48.54 | brlcad | ~colortest |
| 03:48.55 | ibot | 2c3o4l5o6r7t8e9s10t |
| 03:49.28 | deltazap | haha |
| 03:50.13 | deltazap | brlcad: when ever you need testing on your installer for osx, i'm there ;) |
| 03:50.21 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:50.41 | deltazap | and for ruby. i love me some ruby |
| 03:50.52 | brlcad | I want to get it to just a drag and drop that has just the "unified environment" new interface |
| 03:51.10 | brlcad | else a folder that has mged, archer, and a shell in the meantime |
| 03:51.34 | brlcad | instead of the installer that it uses now |
| 03:51.39 | deltazap | yeah, i don't thin kthat will work if you normally need admin access in order to install into /usr |
| 03:52.07 | brlcad | yeah, it wouldn't install into /usr as a drag n' drop |
| 03:53.39 | brlcad | IriX64: for what it's worth, you're pulling the entire history of BRL-CAD |
| 03:53.47 | brlcad | not just a checkout that will compile |
| 03:53.57 | brlcad | you'll still have to pull a "checkout" from what you're downloading |
| 03:54.40 | IriX64 | can't work from that dir? |
| 03:54.56 | brlcad | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login |
| 03:55.00 | brlcad | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 03:55.05 | IriX64 | next rsync run i should be able to pull just new/changed files |
| 03:55.10 | brlcad | those two will get you a current checkout |
| 03:55.31 | brlcad | rsync is pulling the *entire* source history -- the cvs root, not a cvs checkout |
| 03:55.48 | IriX64 | you keep all that there? |
| 03:56.06 | IriX64 | ill wait and see what ive got |
| 03:56.17 | brlcad | you could still use what you get |
| 03:56.40 | brlcad | you're just getting about 20 times more data than you need or will want |
| 03:56.48 | IriX64 | ty |
| 03:56.58 | brlcad | i.e. you're downloading every version of BRL-CAD that has ever existed |
| 03:57.31 | brlcad | all versions in each file, not neatly sorted out -- in CVS/RCS format, not in a compilable format |
| 03:57.44 | IriX64 | well im a history buff :) |
| 03:58.10 | deltazap | IriX64: ok, ready? |
| 03:58.21 | IriX64 | for? |
| 03:58.58 | deltazap | On feb 20, 2003, what version of brlcad was available and what state was it in. Please respond in a 5 paragraph format. |
| 03:59.02 | deltazap | :O |
| 03:59.03 | deltazap | :P |
| 03:59.05 | brlcad | just note that it won't be anything that you'll be able to compile directly, you'll still have to do a checkout -- not hard either, just cvs -d path_to_what_you_rsync checkout -P brlcad |
| 03:59.22 | IriX64 | ty |
| 03:59.30 | IriX64 | trying cvs |
| 03:59.38 | brlcad | still probably easier to use the two cvs commands above :) |
| 04:01.22 | IriX64 | cvs password? |
| 04:01.29 | brlcad | o password |
| 04:01.31 | brlcad | *no |
| 04:01.50 | brlcad | just hit enter |
| 04:04.09 | IriX64 | got it but ill never remebr those commands :) |
| 04:04.27 | IriX64 | ill stop rsync |
| 04:05.46 | IriX64 | my fav just went by...havoc.asc |
| 04:05.50 | IriX64 | :) |
| 04:06.19 | brlcad | ibot: cadcvs is <reply>To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 04:06.21 | ibot | okay, brlcad |
| 04:06.26 | brlcad | ~cadcvs |
| 04:06.28 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 04:07.29 | IriX64 | ty filed |
| 04:14.51 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-255-112-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 04:23.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/440612 < -- 7.10.0 sourcetarball at work :) |
| 04:24.47 | IriX64 | too many hoops to go thru to build it again :) |
| 04:26.31 | IriX64 | so next checkout with the same switches will get me just the changed files? |
| 04:28.23 | IriX64 | how do you want me to proceed? start from autogen.sh or just configure it? |
| 04:48.40 | IriX64 | heh that was easy, no configure :) so ill autogen |
| 04:49.02 | IriX64 | now ill shut up lessn i have something to say. |
| 05:41.55 | brlcad | you don't need to checkout again, you can actually stay directly in sync with the latest |
| 05:42.07 | brlcad | just run "cvs update" in the brlcad directory that you checked out |
| 05:43.48 | brlcad | it'll update to the latest source every time you update, barring any conflicts that occur from an edit you might make |
| 08:16.12 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 10:19.35 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.88) | |
| 10:49.42 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.180) | |
| 12:25.59 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 13:16.24 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 13:16.29 | smallfoot- | back |
| 13:17.26 | brlcad | toes |
| 13:18.43 | smallfoot- | whats up? |
| 13:19.37 | smallfoot- | from Wikipedia "The user interface is rather anachronistic, more typical of the 80's than the beginning of 21st century. It is hardly usable for an occasional user." |
| 13:22.08 | smallfoot- | i wish there was some CAD that was rediculously simple |
| 13:22.13 | smallfoot- | and rediculously easy to use |
| 13:22.20 | smallfoot- | so i could use it without RTFM |
| 13:22.49 | docelic | smallfoot-: well, we can save you the time by bringing you back to reallity really fast. |
| 13:22.54 | docelic | There is no such CAD ;-) |
| 13:24.43 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 13:29.16 | clock_ | smallfoot-: you can learn using BRL-CAD faster than what would take you to earn money for buying a commercial CAD licence |
| 13:35.34 | smallfoot- | license??? |
| 13:47.31 | docelic | Hey folks how come the binary releases are behind the source code on sf.net page? You need help with building on various platforms ? |
| 13:48.10 | brlcad | docelic: an understatement |
| 13:48.16 | brlcad | but yes |
| 13:49.32 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 13:49.44 | smallfoot- | doesnt sourceforge have some compile farm? |
| 13:50.22 | docelic | yes, but not automated afaik |
| 13:50.37 | brlcad | actually, they shut the compile farm down |
| 13:51.06 | brlcad | getting the compilations themselves isn't generally too bad for any given platform |
| 13:53.05 | brlcad | moreso the number of platforms and packaging up the builds for some of those systems is often a manual process |
| 13:53.19 | brlcad | there are some scripts to automate the builds packagings, but they're incomplete |
| 13:53.25 | brlcad | sh/make_*.sh |
| 13:53.39 | brlcad | tied to the main Makefile so that there are build targets |
| 13:54.19 | brlcad | as well as polish like consistently building to /usr/brlcad/rel-#.#.# with symlinks in /usr/brlcad haven't been scripted yet either |
| 13:55.43 | smallfoot- | http://archimedes.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/screenshots-2/fileMenu.gif/image_view_fullscreen oh this looks nice |
| 14:20.58 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 15:09.40 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16) | |
| 15:24.01 | brlcad | woot, have almost made vers.sh entirely obsolete |
| 16:28.27 | *** join/#brlcad thomasgruebler (n=557ca7f9@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:28.51 | thomasgruebler | hallo! |
| 16:30.11 | thomasgruebler | ich hab brlcad auf debian installiert. jedoch weis ich nicht wie ich es ausführen soll. es gibt da einen ordner wo sehr viele ausführbare dateien von brlcad drinnen sind,aber alle durchzuprobieren würde ewig dauern und keine der ausprobierten startete eine gui |
| 16:31.17 | bjorkBSD | auf englisch bitte: http://google.com/translate_t |
| 16:31.40 | thomasgruebler | hello |
| 16:31.46 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:31.47 | thomasgruebler | i hav installed brlcad on debian. |
| 16:31.55 | thomasgruebler | but i don't know how to start it |
| 16:31.59 | bjorkBSD | mged |
| 16:33.01 | bjorkBSD | that's far shorter in english than it is in german. |
| 16:33.01 | bjorkBSD | very curious. |
| 16:35.47 | thomasgruebler | i go to reinstall it. |
| 16:36.00 | thomasgruebler | the newer version |
| 16:39.45 | thomasgruebler | so |
| 16:39.51 | thomasgruebler | now i have the newest version |
| 16:39.56 | thomasgruebler | but i cannot start it |
| 16:40.05 | thomasgruebler | mged is not possible |
| 16:40.42 | bjorkBSD | why not? |
| 16:40.47 | bjorkBSD | it's how i've always started it... |
| 16:41.00 | thomasgruebler | command not found |
| 16:41.05 | bjorkBSD | are you using tcsh? |
| 16:41.17 | thomasgruebler | bash |
| 16:41.25 | bjorkBSD | then it should be in your path. |
| 16:41.53 | bjorkBSD | or maybe not ... |
| 16:41.55 | thomasgruebler | where is the location of it? |
| 16:41.58 | deltazap | only if he's added it to his path, or if the debian package adds it |
| 16:41.59 | bjorkBSD | mine's in /urs/brlcad |
| 16:42.02 | deltazap | /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 16:42.13 | bjorkBSD | */usr |
| 16:42.52 | thomasgruebler | now it's working |
| 16:42.53 | thomasgruebler | thanks |
| 16:43.22 | thomasgruebler | it seems more complicate than autocad |
| 16:44.38 | thomasgruebler | qhen i want to create an elypsoidor soit writes: no database opened. |
| 16:44.43 | bjorkBSD | it's not a cad program. |
| 16:44.48 | bjorkBSD | as in, 2d-cad |
| 16:44.52 | bjorkBSD | it's a 3d cad program. |
| 16:44.58 | bjorkBSD | cad/cae |
| 16:45.05 | thomasgruebler | thomasgruebler@SiduxG:~/install$ /usr/brlcad/bin/mgedInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b |
| 16:45.17 | thomasgruebler | is written when i start it from bash |
| 16:45.32 | thomasgruebler | i wanted an 3d cad programm |
| 16:45.39 | bjorkBSD | you found it :) |
| 16:45.50 | bjorkBSD | using it is a different matter. |
| 16:46.00 | thomasgruebler | the first in Linux non cost. |
| 16:46.05 | bjorkBSD | there're others. |
| 16:46.15 | thomasgruebler | which? |
| 16:46.22 | bjorkBSD | uhhh i forget. |
| 16:46.27 | thomasgruebler | :) |
| 16:46.28 | bjorkBSD | i think it starts with a b. |
| 16:46.43 | bjorkBSD | blender. |
| 16:46.45 | bjorkBSD | that's right. |
| 16:47.06 | thomasgruebler | i know this. |
| 16:47.19 | thomasgruebler | but it cannot draw lines of spezial lenght |
| 16:47.30 | bjorkBSD | i bet it's a user error. |
| 16:47.47 | thomasgruebler | no it's real. |
| 16:47.51 | docelic | ;-) |
| 16:47.55 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:48.03 | thomasgruebler | there are tweaks to do it but it's mainly an animation programm |
| 16:48.19 | thomasgruebler | how can i load an database in mged? |
| 16:49.15 | bjorkBSD | one day i promise i'll write a decent intro tutorial |
| 16:49.21 | bjorkBSD | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/html/manuals |
| 16:50.38 | thomasgruebler | ok a database is a file |
| 16:51.06 | bjorkBSD | think of brlcad as you'd think of say, emacs. |
| 16:51.13 | bjorkBSD | lots of really interesting ideas expressed :) |
| 16:51.26 | thomasgruebler | now i wanted to make an prisma but i killed it |
| 16:51.56 | thomasgruebler | i need something like autocad, proengineer. free for Linux |
| 16:52.17 | deltazap | this is the closest thing to pro/e for free |
| 16:54.14 | bjorkBSD | thomasgruebler, you can make your own pro/e :) |
| 16:54.20 | bjorkBSD | with brlcad! |
| 16:54.33 | thomasgruebler | how? |
| 16:55.39 | bjorkBSD | well the sources are open. |
| 16:55.50 | bjorkBSD | it's just a matter of beating into a pro/e shape. |
| 16:55.55 | bjorkBSD | *it |
| 16:56.02 | bjorkBSD | got a hammer? :D |
| 16:56.37 | thomasgruebler | :) |
| 16:57.07 | thomasgruebler | i know how to programm a microcontroller in C but not how to programm brlcad. and without any kde or gtk lib |
| 16:57.49 | docelic | For a man who know how to programm a microcontroller in C. brlcad cannot be a problem! |
| 16:58.17 | bjorkBSD | heheheh |
| 16:58.29 | bjorkBSD | think of brlcad as a microcontroller ;) |
| 16:58.32 | thomasgruebler | i've never programme somthing for pc. but i want to do |
| 16:58.54 | thomasgruebler | for displaying data sent from the mikrocontroller |
| 16:58.56 | bjorkBSD | gut. macht du! |
| 17:00.17 | thomasgruebler | jetzt bemüh ich mich die ganze zeit umsonst englisch zu sprechen :) |
| 17:02.36 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:03.39 | bjorkBSD | aber ich spreche nicht Deutsches. |
| 17:04.28 | thomasgruebler | so it's not your mother language |
| 17:04.37 | bjorkBSD | ich hatte ein schone deutsche madchen vor jahren. |
| 17:04.39 | bjorkBSD | nein. |
| 17:05.24 | bjorkBSD | no habla. |
| 17:05.40 | thomasgruebler | :) |
| 17:06.22 | bjorkBSD | sie war wunderbar |
| 17:06.56 | bjorkBSD | und ich var ein schwein 8-| |
| 17:07.00 | thomasgruebler | wie alt bist du? |
| 17:07.04 | thomasgruebler | warst du da? |
| 17:07.42 | bjorkBSD | 29 ... and a half :) |
| 17:08.10 | bjorkBSD | Texas. |
| 17:08.35 | thomasgruebler | how can i stop brlcad to turn my prisma? it turnsaround when i pressed ctrl+Z |
| 17:09.29 | thomasgruebler | help |
| 17:10.08 | bjorkBSD | hilfe :) |
| 17:10.28 | bjorkBSD | when in doubt, turn it off and turn it back on ;-) |
| 17:10.29 | thomasgruebler | bitte hild mir |
| 17:11.10 | thomasgruebler | how??? |
| 17:14.44 | bjorkBSD | hmm. i oughta get version 7.10 |
| 17:14.53 | bjorkBSD | do you have 7.8.2 or the newest one? |
| 17:15.15 | thomasgruebler | the newest deb from sf |
| 17:15.21 | bjorkBSD | ah |
| 17:15.24 | thomasgruebler | i killed the application |
| 17:15.41 | bjorkBSD | there's no getting around reading the manual on this one, thomasgruebler. |
| 17:16.15 | thomasgruebler | i see |
| 17:16.42 | thomasgruebler | but from first view it looks good so i like it |
| 17:17.29 | deltazap | take your time, read through intro to mged |
| 17:17.44 | deltazap | huh |
| 17:18.04 | bjorkBSD | EOF, deltazap. |
| 17:18.22 | *** join/#brlcad thomasgruebler (n=557ca7f9@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 17:18.28 | deltazap | i thought you could never run out of internet :P |
| 17:19.09 | bjorkBSD | hehe |
| 17:19.50 | thomasgruebler | i killed firefox somehow |
| 17:19.59 | thomasgruebler | i don't know how |
| 17:20.04 | thomasgruebler | it neverhappened |
| 17:20.08 | thomasgruebler | bye. |
| 17:20.19 | bjorkBSD | EOF thomasgruebler. |
| 17:20.33 | deltazap | apt-get install irssi |
| 17:20.37 | deltazap | oh darn he left |
| 17:20.39 | bjorkBSD | eek! |
| 17:20.45 | bjorkBSD | pkg_add -r xchat2 |
| 17:21.40 | bjorkBSD | i need to deep clean my german. |
| 17:21.50 | bjorkBSD | para la allemande mamacitas |
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| 18:34.03 | IriX64 | be vewy vewy quiet, we're hunting tk files :) |
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| 18:36.39 | zapp | whoops, kinda...uh...killed irssi there for a bit |
| 18:57.02 | IriX64 | anybody wanna tacle a build related issue? |
| 18:57.07 | IriX64 | tackle too |
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| 19:51.02 | bjorkBSD | BRL-CAD Release 7.10.0, Build 20070415 |
| 19:51.02 | bjorkBSD | Elapsed compilation time: 59 minutes, 12 seconds |
| 19:51.20 | docelic | which plataform ? |
| 19:51.36 | bjorkBSD | my computer. |
| 19:51.42 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.04 | bjorkBSD | it's a freebsd x86 |
| 19:52.32 | IriX64 | pretty quick if it only took an hour |
| 19:52.41 | bjorkBSD | CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.20GHz (2193.53-MHz 686-class CPU) |
| 19:52.44 | bjorkBSD | it's a celeron. |
| 19:54.49 | IriX64 | finally it found tk8.4 |
| 19:54.54 | IriX64 | and tcl |
| 20:02.36 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD did you use the supplied tcl/tk libs? |
| 21:01.44 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, it was 8.5 wasn't it? |
| 21:01.47 | bjorkBSD | i believe i did. |
| 21:01.54 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707276.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 21:17.37 | IriX64 | yes thank |
| 21:18.10 | IriX64 | for me 8.5 is fraught with peril :) |
| 21:19.03 | IriX64 | trying with tcl84 :) |
| 21:19.13 | IriX64 | looking very good so far |
| 21:20.05 | IriX64 | still timing out louipc? |
| 21:21.24 | louipc_ | yeah I think I'll have to call my ISP and bitch |
| 21:21.40 | IriX64 | sure its not the server? |
| 21:21.48 | louipc | I'm back in action though with a fresh install and a new hard-disk |
| 21:22.03 | IriX64 | hah back from the wars eh? |
| 21:22.12 | louipc | yeap because the little light on my modem indicates that the network is down on the isp end |
| 21:22.31 | louipc | and I can't access the internet in any way when it happens |
| 21:22.55 | IriX64 | call em tear a strip off after all you're the customer :) |
| 21:24.16 | IriX64 | -ltcl84 gotta love it :) |
| 21:25.16 | IriX64 | static link but what the heck, whatever works :) |
| 21:26.03 | louipc | if brlcad is the only thing you use it for, sure |
| 21:26.44 | IriX64 | huh its a system lib, quite capable of non static linking |
| 21:27.10 | IriX64 | i mean brlcad isd linking its stuff statically |
| 21:30.34 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754332.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:33.14 | IriX64 | lets try this map thing, somebody throw out a function i should know nothing about (don't be a smartypants and say main:)) |
| 21:41.55 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/441828 <=== map |
| 21:42.47 | bjorkBSD | should i install tcl8.5 independently? |
| 21:50.25 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD if that's aimed at me, I know nothing about fbsd so can't comment |
| 21:56.55 | louipc | I'd say it's a good idea to have it independently |
| 21:59.52 | bjorkBSD | okay. |
| 23:02.07 | brlcad | FAQ Tip of the Day: pressing x, y, z, X, Y, Z in the graphics window will send the model spinning.. you press 0 to stop the spin |
| 23:15.11 | IriX64 | model? or drawing? |
| 23:18.37 | bjorkBSD | thingamagic |
| 23:21.36 | IriX64 | magically bjorkBSD starts spinning :) |
| 23:21.54 | IriX64 | i pressed the appropriate keys :) |
| 00:32.10 | IriX64 | louipc how big a drive did you invesdt in if you don't mind my asking? |
| 01:09.35 | deltazap | please tell me i'm not the only one that found out about ctrl-z, then held it down to see how fast i could get the wireframe spinning :P |
| 01:10.20 | IriX64 | whats your angle-distance cursor say :P |
| 01:37.22 | brlcad | deltazap: heh, nope .. i still do that from time to time |
| 01:39.46 | IriX64 | some standalones aren't going to work, they rely on Tcl_CreateFileHandler and delete same |
| 01:43.47 | IriX64 | part of dg_obj.c if i saw that right |
| 01:45.52 | IriX64 | in librt |
| 02:06.58 | IriX64 | well doom was fun..... gotta stop playing with that 386 dos machine :) |
| 02:10.37 | IriX64 | stereo compiless still going strong |
| 02:10.45 | IriX64 | - an s |
| 02:11.44 | IriX64 | mmm opennurbs is cpp ill have to browse later |
| 02:19.17 | IriX64 | the dgo_blah stuff seems to rely on those tcl functions |
| 02:20.57 | IriX64 | bear in mind thats the compile that uses my tcl84, the tcl85 compile is still going on. |
| 02:28.41 | bjorkBSD | exactly how slow is your machine, IriX64? |
| 02:32.43 | IriX64 | it crawls along at 2.4g |
| 02:33.30 | IriX64 | which means each compile is running at 1.2g right :P |
| 02:34.32 | IriX64 | each time you or i type it slows to a crawl :) |
| 02:35.06 | IriX64 | a 32 minute install o yowzers |
| 02:36.54 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/442222 |
| 02:46.42 | louipc | IriX64: 160GB |
| 02:47.01 | ``Erik | http://www.worth1000.com/entries/172500/172821yfHE_w.jpg |
| 02:47.55 | IriX64 | ``Erik i didn't know you were at that party:) |
| 02:48.27 | IriX64 | louipc: i got a deal on a 200GB maxtor |
| 02:48.53 | louipc | a maxtor is what crashed on me :/ |
| 02:54.28 | bjorkBSD | deal from where how much? |
| 02:54.56 | louipc | I got a seagate for $79 |
| 03:12.30 | IriX64 | staples, $190 for the 200gigger |
| 03:13.39 | louipc | sata? |
| 03:13.53 | IriX64 | ide udma100 |
| 03:14.50 | louipc | I guess staples isn't that great for prices eh |
| 03:15.00 | louipc | I went to a taiwanese computer shop |
| 03:15.03 | louipc | :D |
| 03:15.20 | IriX64 | don't have such here :) |
| 03:18.24 | Maloeran | Sounds expensive for 200gb, especially an UDMA100. Sounds like an old drive |
| 03:20.25 | Maloeran | My 320gb were the equivalent of 110USD or so |
| 03:20.49 | IriX64 | this was 2 years ago |
| 03:21.08 | louipc | nice |
| 03:21.30 | Maloeran | Ah right, two years, that explains it |
| 03:22.10 | louipc | I'm starting to get scared that the available hardware will outrun my computer pretty soon |
| 03:23.06 | Maloeran | If what you have satisfies your needs, why worry? |
| 03:23.07 | IriX64 | bwish is needed by who? |
| 03:23.58 | IriX64 | Maloeran is the computer comy in it's "seat" :P |
| 03:24.00 | louipc | because if something goes wrong I won't be able to find replacement parts haha |
| 03:24.05 | louipc | I'll need to get a whole new system |
| 03:24.17 | louipc | but that'll be fun as well |
| 03:24.27 | IriX64 | sometimes its cheaper to louipc |
| 03:25.02 | Maloeran | Ah well, it's rare that something goes "wrong" in a critical component such as the motherboard |
| 03:25.47 | IriX64 | quite a few critical parts though |
| 03:25.59 | louipc | that's comforting to know. I can keep it as an antique hobby system when the time comes |
| 03:26.11 | IriX64 | heh like my 386 |
| 03:26.42 | IriX64 | dx not sx |
| 03:27.19 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, don't you like uhh unix? |
| 03:27.44 | IriX64 | i know nothing about it and the learning curve is steep |
| 03:28.04 | bjorkBSD | it's as steep as a level playing field ;) |
| 03:28.11 | louipc | IriX64: not really that steep |
| 03:28.11 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:28.22 | louipc | especiall now |
| 03:28.25 | bjorkBSD | i'm sure you've used dos. |
| 03:28.31 | bjorkBSD | and it's kinda fun. |
| 03:28.38 | IriX64 | dos != unix |
| 03:28.43 | louipc | well I can't speak for BSD but linux is a lot better than it was 5 yrs ago |
| 03:28.50 | bjorkBSD | eg: i think i just hosed /usr/ports so now i have to figure out how to fix it. |
| 03:28.59 | deltazap | IriX64: learning curve is not that steep |
| 03:29.06 | bjorkBSD | oh trust me, i quickly abandoned linux after first touching it. |
| 03:29.24 | bjorkBSD | then i was introduced to freebsd. |
| 03:29.29 | IriX64 | been thinking of a mac never really owned one before |
| 03:29.40 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, they're x86 boxes now. nothing to it. |
| 03:29.42 | IriX64 | thats OSX right? |
| 03:29.55 | deltazap | correct |
| 03:30.07 | IriX64 | maybe for X-mas |
| 03:30.21 | IriX64 | get it right geez Christmas |
| 03:30.26 | IriX64 | +s |
| 03:30.35 | louipc | freebsd seems to use the same installer it did ages ago... I don't get it :P |
| 03:31.42 | bjorkBSD | louipc, why break it if it works so well? |
| 03:31.58 | louipc | works like ass for me |
| 03:32.16 | bjorkBSD | how? |
| 03:32.25 | bjorkBSD | what's missing in your installation experience? |
| 03:32.36 | bjorkBSD | i HATE redhat's. and debian i can barely stand. |
| 03:33.16 | louipc | I think it tried to redefine my HDD cylinders, then during the install there were a ton of errors saying it couldn't access a certain file it needed installing from the CD |
| 03:33.36 | bjorkBSD | oh a bad CD |
| 03:33.48 | louipc | nah it was fine I checked it |
| 03:34.06 | louipc | actually I did succeed on a third try or so |
| 03:34.20 | bjorkBSD | media problems ;) |
| 03:34.41 | IriX64 | or drive problems :) |
| 03:34.42 | bjorkBSD | the only time i switched from freebsd to debian was when 5 came out |
| 03:34.58 | louipc | then I went into the system and started up 'vi' which really bothered me. so I said forget it hah |
| 03:35.12 | louipc | yeah I can't really take those distros either |
| 03:35.40 | louipc | I would endorse fbsd before I'd endorse debian or redhat |
| 03:35.47 | Maloeran | The first run of 'vi' is always amusing for an Unix beginner. "Help! How do I get out?" |
| 03:35.59 | louipc | Maloeran: I've moved on to vim |
| 03:36.00 | louipc | ;) |
| 03:36.22 | IriX64 | mc helps me....a lot :) |
| 03:36.33 | bjorkBSD | it's even more amusing with ed |
| 03:36.40 | bjorkBSD | 'cause all ed will tell you is '?' |
| 03:36.53 | louipc | hehe |
| 03:37.15 | IriX64 | fond memories of edlin come to mind |
| 03:37.30 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, see? you're that much closer to a unix system ;) |
| 03:37.32 | bjorkBSD | give it a try. |
| 03:37.39 | IriX64 | might |
| 03:37.43 | bjorkBSD | there're all kinds of gui goodness(and slowness) going on with it. |
| 03:37.58 | bjorkBSD | AND unix has had a gui far longer than the mac or pc has existed :D |
| 03:38.12 | IriX64 | will redhat 5.1 tolerate a 200gig disk? |
| 03:38.17 | bjorkBSD | eek! |
| 03:38.20 | bjorkBSD | don't say that name :-S |
| 03:38.26 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:39.45 | Maloeran | Gentoo isn't too bad for programmers who know Linux well, I would never recommend that to an user |
| 03:40.37 | louipc | I figrue if they're going to package old software it's going to be a PITA to get recent stuff going |
| 03:41.21 | louipc | it might be stable but I'm not running a server really... so I conclude fbsd is good for servers uh not so much for desktops |
| 03:41.44 | louipc | don't all the devs in here use macs as desktops? |
| 03:41.47 | bjorkBSD | louipc, i use it as a desktop os |
| 03:42.00 | bjorkBSD | the only time i switch to windows is to watch desperate housewives on abc.com |
| 03:42.13 | louipc | why do you need windows for it? |
| 03:42.26 | bjorkBSD | 'cause it uses flash9 |
| 03:42.40 | louipc | I got that in linux |
| 03:42.45 | bjorkBSD | yeah i know. |
| 03:42.52 | bjorkBSD | it's a little while longer... |
| 03:43.12 | bjorkBSD | but for everything else, freebsd does it for me. |
| 03:44.17 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, you could try ubuntu |
| 03:44.26 | louipc | bjorkBSD: don't say that |
| 03:44.34 | bjorkBSD | it suckedARSE on my machine for some reason, but it might work for you. |
| 03:44.40 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 03:45.03 | IriX64 | im not in an experimenting mood vis vis os's |
| 03:45.10 | louipc | yeah gentoo is decent but gets annoying after awhile having to compile everything |
| 03:45.23 | bjorkBSD | i'm sure but it might save you some compile hell no? :P |
| 03:45.38 | louipc | that's why I switched to archlinux |
| 03:45.53 | bjorkBSD | what's it based on? |
| 03:46.03 | louipc | nothing |
| 03:46.13 | IriX64 | this isn't bad i figured a way out of #ifdef _WIN32 now to figure a way out of #ifdef __CYGWIN__ |
| 03:46.39 | louipc | it takes ideas from crux, and slackware, and perhaps from fbsd it's been said |
| 03:48.14 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/442288 <--- that magic flag keeps it from setting win32 defines |
| 03:49.27 | bjorkBSD | don't know crux |
| 03:49.42 | bjorkBSD | but zipslack was my very very first *nix (tear) |
| 03:50.49 | louipc | http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Compared_To_Other_Distros |
| 03:52.31 | IriX64 | quite a menu to choose from |
| 03:54.36 | Maloeran | My first Linux was Linux from scratch, I will never recommend that experience to anyone |
| 03:54.58 | bjorkBSD | aha. archlinux thinks highly of freebsd :D |
| 03:55.12 | Maloeran | I think it took me about a week to both understand how the stuff works, and how to make it work |
| 03:55.26 | bjorkBSD | linux from scratch? |
| 03:55.29 | bjorkBSD | what on earth is that? |
| 03:55.30 | louipc | yeah that would be tough |
| 03:55.56 | louipc | I think it's a good idea to start with a binary distro to learn the basics, then go to a source based one if you're so inclined |
| 03:56.06 | Maloeran | bjorkBSD, installing Linux manually, entirely |
| 03:56.24 | bjorkBSD | hmm. not sure what that means Maloeran. |
| 03:56.26 | louipc | hah have you heard of DIY Linux? |
| 03:56.30 | bjorkBSD | no. |
| 03:56.35 | bjorkBSD | isn't that what linus uses? |
| 03:56.37 | louipc | it's even worse than LFS |
| 03:56.50 | Maloeran | bjorkBSD, there's no distribution or installer, you install everything manually |
| 03:57.10 | Maloeran | That's not hard for someone who actually knows Linux, but for a beginner, it's absolutely atrocious |
| 03:58.26 | bjorkBSD | reminds me of netbsd. |
| 03:58.31 | bjorkBSD | i managed to hose my entire system installing it. |
| 03:58.37 | bjorkBSD | never again. NEVER! |
| 03:59.06 | IriX64 | maybe i should go with my nick |
| 03:59.32 | bjorkBSD | an irix? |
| 03:59.41 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:59.43 | bjorkBSD | you're gonna have to buy an sgi to go with it. |
| 03:59.55 | louipc | that's super cool |
| 04:00.17 | IriX64 | pick one up on the used market, i didn't say it would be current :) |
| 04:00.29 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, they're not very expensive |
| 04:00.40 | bjorkBSD | just make sure you buy the correct kinda monitor to go with it. |
| 04:00.45 | IriX64 | i have never checked |
| 04:00.56 | bjorkBSD | you could probably buy one for about 50-100 bucks on ebay. |
| 04:01.24 | bjorkBSD | but you'll most likely get a machine from the mid-90s |
| 04:01.30 | bjorkBSD | with about 4 gigs |
| 04:01.44 | IriX64 | matters little as long as it runs well |
| 04:01.49 | bjorkBSD | the more you pay, the nicer it is. |
| 04:02.02 | bjorkBSD | eh. they're annoying as hell in some ways. |
| 04:02.13 | IriX64 | fans? |
| 04:02.17 | bjorkBSD | eg: their cc keeps spamming expired license ads. |
| 04:02.36 | bjorkBSD | mine has about 4 fans on it. |
| 04:02.47 | IriX64 | heh windows keeps asking me to update my os |
| 04:03.09 | louipc | they want your soul |
| 04:03.10 | Maloeran | Translation : Microsoft asking for more money |
| 04:03.35 | IriX64 | autoupdate costs? |
| 04:03.44 | bjorkBSD | nah it needn't. |
| 04:03.54 | IriX64 | dinna think so |
| 04:03.55 | bjorkBSD | but i've never paid M$ for anything. |
| 04:04.07 | louipc | I paid for a mouse :/ |
| 04:04.08 | IriX64 | mea culpa im legal |
| 04:04.24 | bjorkBSD | i think i paid for a book or two from ms press. |
| 04:04.25 | Maloeran | Ah, I misread, I thought it was saying to go buy their Vista thing |
| 04:04.41 | IriX64 | nah os stuff ie stuff etc |
| 04:04.59 | Maloeran | I paid for a windows 95 CD once. It was my first computer, I was young and foolish then |
| 04:05.20 | IriX64 | im no longer young but i am foolish still |
| 04:05.55 | IriX64 | bbiab |
| 04:05.58 | bjorkBSD | the best tool in the world is ataidle |
| 04:06.06 | bjorkBSD | it keeps my harddisk quiet :) |
| 04:17.43 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/442319 this one is with your tcl/tk |
| 05:07.01 | IriX64 | :) |
| 06:52.55 | IriX64 | anybody still here? |
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| 13:57.48 | brlcad | woot, new runtime libraries |
| 13:58.40 | smallfoot- | cool |
| 14:26.01 | joevalleyfield | i hate platform tests |
| 14:31.12 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: just make librtserver match bu/bn/rt version .. using maj:min:pat is bogus in libtool version-info lingo. |
| 14:42.16 | brlcad | woo hoo.. new version reporting setup looks like it's working great .. now aside from docs, the version numbers should really just be in one place for all platforms |
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| 16:32.27 | deltazap | pro/e is so infuriating |
| 16:36.10 | mysticmarks | hi |
| 16:41.07 | mysticmarks | im using sh for terminal, will i need bash for this to run correctly? |
| 16:45.50 | smallfoot- | bash is the shit |
| 16:45.52 | smallfoot- | everyone use bash |
| 16:46.07 | smallfoot- | bash is the best thing since sliced bread |
| 16:46.34 | smallfoot- | man, if the kids find out you dont use bash, they will be laughing at you, get a grip man, use bash |
| 16:46.40 | mysticmarks | im trying to move to open source modeling systems. Ive used solidworks on win, but am moving to the linux platform |
| 16:47.25 | mysticmarks | what dependencies will i need to take care of |
| 16:47.47 | mysticmarks | im using a puppy linux. |
| 16:47.54 | mysticmarks | i like a portable os |
| 16:48.04 | mysticmarks | i should include bash |
| 16:48.17 | mysticmarks | are ther any other libs not in the deb |
| 16:48.22 | mysticmarks | i will need |
| 16:48.25 | mysticmarks | ? |
| 16:48.48 | mysticmarks | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:50.03 | mysticmarks | what about kernel requirements? |
| 16:52.39 | mysticmarks | :\ |
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| 19:11.32 | IriX64 | anybody mind if i change my version # to 9.9.9 :) |
| 19:14.11 | IriX64 | this one works with XWin32 or XMing too bonus :) |
| 19:24.09 | IriX64 | if i uploaded an installed folder with my cygwin build and the dll's necessary to run it would anybody look at it? |
| 19:24.21 | IriX64 | ill even include Xming :) |
| 19:32.16 | IriX64 | well i don't know, but i been told, if you serve, you'll never grow old (been told not to bother you people too much so i'll shutup now ) |
| 19:34.14 | joevalleyfield | does the ogl display manager work in you cywin build? |
| 19:34.49 | IriX64 | attaches but i can't bring up a frame buffer window, it thinks its there but its really not |
| 19:35.40 | IriX64 | i mean fbserv shows up in proc |
| 19:35.46 | joevalleyfield | yeah |
| 19:35.53 | IriX64 | but no display window appears |
| 19:35.56 | joevalleyfield | where did you install to? |
| 19:36.05 | joevalleyfield | in cygwin path land? |
| 19:36.17 | IriX64 | --prefix=/usr/brlcad-7.8.4 |
| 19:37.41 | IriX64 | heh in windows land exec ls don't work (chuckle) |
| 19:37.54 | joevalleyfield | does ln -s work? |
| 19:38.08 | IriX64 | just a sec ill bring it back up |
| 19:39.31 | IriX64 | no |
| 19:39.53 | IriX64 | rt -F:0 works tho |
| 19:40.15 | IriX64 | lemme open a database |
| 19:40.18 | joevalleyfield | i think an error message is being suppressed |
| 19:41.12 | IriX64 | huh it said no such command |
| 19:41.21 | IriX64 | and exec that no such file |
| 19:41.25 | joevalleyfield | yeah |
| 19:41.41 | IriX64 | got galileo load what would you have me try |
| 19:41.46 | IriX64 | loaded too |
| 19:42.01 | joevalleyfield | lappend auto_path /usr/brlcad-7.8.4/share/tclscripts |
| 19:44.01 | IriX64 | did it but i used my windows path |
| 19:44.19 | IriX64 | want it pastebinned? |
| 19:44.34 | joevalleyfield | please |
| 19:44.43 | IriX64 | i know what i should try be right back |
| 19:45.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/443385 |
| 19:46.45 | joevalleyfield | i think you should have used the cygwin path |
| 19:46.52 | joevalleyfield | then, you'll be able to open a db |
| 19:46.59 | joevalleyfield | i don't know the command to retry the attach |
| 19:48.48 | ``Erik | um, "attach"? :D |
| 19:48.57 | joevalleyfield | :-D |
| 19:50.06 | IriX64 | man it still comes up i zapped the dir in /usr and it still runs on the windows side even your lappend thing works |
| 19:51.10 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/443394 |
| 19:51.35 | ``Erik | hey, irix, wanna see something really neato? try "mged -c" *smirk* |
| 19:52.02 | IriX64 | heh ``Erik i'm King Fool ;) |
| 19:52.18 | ``Erik | <--likes classic mode more than the tk stuff |
| 19:52.45 | IriX64 | heh im a gooey person, just touch you'll see :) |
| 19:52.53 | ``Erik | um, pass? |
| 19:52.58 | IriX64 | ok |
| 19:53.26 | IriX64 | beauty of this is i can still open up a frame buffer |
| 19:53.48 | IriX64 | for you classic type, the mged command window is both input and output capable |
| 19:53.53 | IriX64 | types too |
| 19:54.32 | brlcad | IriX64: when you get a chance to test it, would you try changing that getvideo -lgl check to be gconfig instead of getvideo .. see if it succeeds or fails the configure test |
| 19:54.45 | IriX64 | sure |
| 19:55.04 | IriX64 | do it right now lemme restore to a pristine dir |
| 19:55.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: mingw seems to have a -lgl that has at least one of the old irisgl bindings, so try changing from 'getvideo' to 'gconfig' |
| 20:02.17 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669369.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:16.47 | IriX64 | you want hard copy or just my report that you got it right. |
| 20:17.05 | IriX64 | brlcad its proper now |
| 20:18.30 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/443446 |
| 20:22.17 | IriX64 | haha keiths tank just rt'ed sweet |
| 20:23.33 | IriX64 | thats on the windows side after your lappend joevalleyfield :) |
| 20:25.24 | IriX64 | i have no way to get a directory from the command line though |
| 20:26.25 | IriX64 | could rewrite d.com i suppose |
| 20:37.07 | smallfoot- | you running IRIX? |
| 20:51.01 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/.cvsignore: ignore the generated pkgconfig files |
| 20:55.06 | IriX64 | humph, comes up with XWin32 but Xming bombs go figure |
| 21:05.53 | IriX64 | so if i create a usr dir in windereze, then drop brlcad/* in it all the paths should be proper no? |
| 21:07.42 | IriX64 | mmm winix ;) |
| 21:10.28 | joevalleyfield | you could set the environment variable BRLCAD_DATA |
| 21:10.40 | joevalleyfield | i think you'd want to use the cygwin style paths |
| 21:10.47 | joevalleyfield | so /c/... like you did in mged |
| 21:12.05 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706589.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:16.06 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (38 files in 10 dirs): |
| 21:16.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: revamp BRL-CAD's versioning setup. no longer rely upon the vers.sh script, |
| 21:16.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: allowing for a more unified cross-platform configuration. instead of globals, |
| 21:16.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: provide per-library functions that return the version string. the version |
| 21:16.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: numbers are now stored in files in include/conf/. |
| 21:18.16 | IriX64 | thats what the app expects so that has to be used but i just want to make sure mged can find all its resources |
| 21:19.08 | IriX64 | sitting through a make install right now |
| 21:19.29 | IriX64 | brlcad ty |
| 21:28.43 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): remove the vers_win.c files as the globals they declare are no longer used (for bn, bu, fb, rt) |
| 21:34.49 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734998.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:35.57 | IriX64 | ``Erik... http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad it works in gui mode too :P |
| 21:37.02 | IriX64 | but i know you prefer mged -c so it's there too just for you ;) |
| 21:38.57 | IriX64 | btw thats on the winderze side of the house and no complaint this time about finding resources |
| 21:40.46 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/443577 works too thats havoc |
| 21:44.57 | IriX64 | i was wrong tho 6 dll's not 5 |
| 21:51.16 | IriX64 | check the blog, photon mapping ala WiniX :) |
| 21:52.24 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734814.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:55.18 | IriX64 | too big to fit on a cd tho |
| 21:58.29 | IriX64 | works with Xming too and now ill shutup :) |
| 22:04.51 | *** join/#brlcad louipc__ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707237.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:29.55 | IriX64 | gonna try it on the other box that doesn't have a cygwin install :) |
| 22:30.10 | joevalleyfield | you'll need cygwin.dll |
| 22:30.22 | IriX64 | have 6 i need in the dir |
| 22:30.38 | joevalleyfield | excellent |
| 22:32.10 | IriX64 | btw for the record, i did *not hack up brlcad to make it compile/run |
| 22:32.54 | IriX64 | . |
| 22:41.29 | IriX64 | not bad 450mgs zipped thatll burn nicely |
| 22:46.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (6 files): use the new brlcad_version() routine instead of vers.sh approach, removes need need for vers.c files |
| 23:06.11 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 23:09.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): update to the new version management routines, replace the dm_version global with a dm_version() call |
| 23:22.35 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove fft's unused version global |
| 23:24.46 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove multispectral's unused version global |
| 23:29.02 | IriX64 | no dice, ill have to rethink |
| 23:29.51 | IriX64 | can't find a usable itcl dunno whats up path or something |
| 23:47.16 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update to the new version management routines, replace the liboptical_version global with a optical_version() call |
| 23:52.16 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove orle's unused version global |
| 00:01.27 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
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| 00:21.00 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/.cvsignore src/libpkg/Makefile.am): convert version global to a function, remove need for vers.sh script |
| 00:25.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c: report the version number as part of the usage |
| 00:26.46 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/winbrlcad <----- i've abandonded the other side of the house (for now:)) |
| 00:30.54 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am vers_win.c): remove the unused version global |
| 00:32.13 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libcursor/Makefile.am: remove the unused version global |
| 00:39.22 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove the unused version global |
| 00:41.26 | IriX64 | still works with X-server, opens a frame buffer automagically |
| 00:45.57 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtermio/Makefile.am: remove the unused version global |
| 00:47.27 | IriX64 | huh. joevalleyfield i had activestate tcl/tk installed on the windows side could that be what it wants? |
| 00:50.36 | IriX64 | never mind uninstalled it still works here |
| 00:50.41 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am vers_win.c): remove the unused version global |
| 00:55.18 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 01:06.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am ged.c vers_win.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information |
| 01:06.52 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734748.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:09.22 | IriX64 | winbrlcad albumn shows just a little of windows archer |
| 01:30.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am nirt.c vers_win.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information |
| 01:36.12 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am remrt.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information |
| 01:43.10 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ (Makefile.am viewtherm.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information |
| 01:46.07 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: remove unused version stuff |
| 02:16.06 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:34.18 | louipc | hmm! |
| 02:49.34 | IriX64 | in vmware, but still it's nice to see an old friend :) |
| 03:02.48 | IriX64 | blog/photos/stuff <--- os/2 working |
| 03:24.28 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (21 files): redo the client-side version reporting to use the new brlcad_version() interface, utilizing a per-binary title as needed, instead of the former vers.sh setup. |
| 03:28.44 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: need to specify a title |
| 03:29.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: consolidate title |
| 04:09.10 | deltazap | wheeee, crashin mged all night |
| 04:10.44 | deltazap | so, scaling a matrix on a region is a dangerous thing, as i have found out |
| 04:13.15 | louipc | dangerous? |
| 04:13.39 | deltazap | crashes mged if you rotate it after scaling one axis |
| 04:13.48 | louipc | erk |
| 04:14.02 | deltazap | i'm hoping it was a 7.6.6 bug |
| 04:14.43 | louipc | that's what you're using? |
| 04:15.18 | deltazap | haven't been able to get any other build working on mac :-[ |
| 04:15.28 | louipc | ah dang |
| 04:16.39 | bjorkBSD | deltazap, mac OS what? |
| 04:16.55 | bjorkBSD | i think brl-cad's developed on macs. |
| 04:17.21 | louipc | odd that that's the latest binary |
| 04:17.49 | deltazap | bjorkBSD: 10.4.9, the latest |
| 04:18.11 | bjorkBSD | and it's not working? |
| 04:19.04 | deltazap | nope |
| 04:20.28 | brlcad | os x is one of the most frequently tested, one of many actually |
| 04:20.44 | brlcad | and that operation certainly should work |
| 04:21.07 | brlcad | only case where a matrix edit over a region is known to cause a problem is when something in the region is invalid |
| 04:21.32 | brlcad | still shouldn't crash thought.. that's report-worthy regardless |
| 04:21.32 | deltazap | yeah, i don't know what i'm doing that's causing it to crash |
| 04:21.50 | brlcad | you should have stack trace files |
| 04:21.57 | brlcad | in your logs |
| 04:24.06 | deltazap | which log? |
| 04:24.34 | brlcad | ~/Library/Logs |
| 04:29.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/.cvsignore: ignore brlcad-config |
| 04:29.11 | deltazap | hmm, it's not showing up in the logs |
| 04:29.38 | deltazap | and it doesn't show up when i crash it. i'll take another look at it tomorrow |
| 04:30.14 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: do need to also set exec_prefix after all -- just set to same for now |
| 04:40.25 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libpkg/vers_win.c libtclcad/vers_win.c): windows version files no longer needed/used |
| 04:44.32 | IriX64 | i wonder how hard it would be to convert on the fly? I mean mged has the file name anyway, call ie asc2g close the input file and open the new g file |
| 07:13.32 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544108.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 12:03.09 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/ (COUNT DATE HOST PATH USER): don't store the files that change in CVS |
| 12:05.13 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/.cvsignore: ignore the generated configuration files |
| 12:17.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: just use CLEANFILES |
| 12:20.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: on second thought, try to prevent a rebuild/relink every pass through .. only update the count after a clean. every pass of make would be ideal, but only we can figure out a way to avoid the dependency check relinkage |
| 12:25.41 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/vers.c: add libpkg's pkg_version() source file |
| 12:32.04 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 12:38.43 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/conf/ (make.vbs Makefile.am): update version information on MS Windows |
| 13:03.25 | brlcad | d_rossberg: wow, that was quick.. :) I was just getting to the Windows build files |
| 13:04.31 | brlcad | i know i broke the build on windows, I was/am setting up my tools now to test/fix |
| 13:09.56 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@84.135.64.23) | |
| 13:17.59 | d_rossberg | brlcad: no problem, at the moment i'm looking for a way to have a prebuild step in MSVC (postbuild is easy) |
| 13:32.06 | joevalleyfield | it's slow as hell, but it's up in aqua/classic mode again! |
| 14:03.35 | brlcad | cool! |
| 14:22.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/conf/make.vbs: host, date, user and path need to e set between quotes |
| 14:33.41 | deltazap | joevalleyfield: what's that? |
| 14:35.24 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 14:35.24 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: aPrep is a MSVC project for preprocessing |
| 14:35.24 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: e.g. updating version information |
| 14:57.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change data to char and add a "flags" field to the bu image struct |
| 15:04.23 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 6 dirs): remove old version number handling for MSVC |
| 15:11.36 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 15:21.08 | d_rossberg | brlcad: src/librt/tcl.c needs BRLCAD_VERSION which is not defined in brlcad_version.h yet; do you want me to define it or do you want to change tcl.c? |
| 15:23.58 | ``Erik | wow, brlcad broke stuff out the wazoo with that version stuff |
| 15:26.00 | brlcad | he did? |
| 15:27.09 | ``Erik | yeah, I'm looking into it now... something with cppflgs I think |
| 15:29.29 | ``Erik | ah, got it |
| 16:05.15 | IriX64 | hah it built, now to drop it into the windows side of the house |
| 16:06.19 | IriX64 | you'll never see an error report from me again, well unless brlcad has something he wants tested, i still have and always will have that cvs checkout |
| 16:09.20 | IriX64 | louipc you were compiling, how goes it? |
| 16:21.01 | IriX64 | mmm how do you read a man page in windereze though |
| 16:31.52 | *** join/#brlcad cad98 (n=51d01fd7@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:38.32 | IriX64 | Xwin32 is superior to Xming |
| 16:40.07 | IriX64 | i dropped the 6 dll's it needs into brlcad/bin and all's hunky :) |
| 16:44.19 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff |
| 16:47.00 | IriX64 | urf why did the winbrlcad albumn come up? |
| 16:47.30 | IriX64 | try leaving /stuff off and selecting the albumn your self |
| 16:49.11 | IriX64 | urf leave photos off too then you'll be able to choose an albumn |
| 16:52.48 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/444962 look to the end of the paste |
| 17:04.35 | IriX64 | stuff albumn (BigHavoc) |
| 17:04.49 | IriX64 | ill shut up now :) |
| 17:10.59 | IriX64 | final note,gonna try winaxep :) |
| 17:27.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: include/ is now a mandatory dependancy due to the new versioning shtuff |
| 17:30.58 | IriX64 | it flies with winaxep too (stuff albumn, what my Children did to your havoc :)) |
| 17:42.20 | IriX64 | still going, btw i'm out of prepared pictures. |
| 17:43.23 | IriX64 | if you want a winaxe pix its going to take a while (not that i'm telling you something you don't already know) |
| 17:54.39 | joevalleyfield | deltazap: mged on OSX without X -- it's more proof of concept than usable though |
| 17:57.00 | ``Erik | aqua-tk? |
| 18:19.13 | joevalleyfield | yeah |
| 18:19.22 | joevalleyfield | no gl yet though |
| 18:28.10 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: aPrep seems to be a new dir that wasn't added here |
| 18:43.32 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: brlcad_version.h is in srcdir, not builddir |
| 18:46.17 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:46.55 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: the brlcad_version.h builddirr/srcdir issue shows up on a couple other lines, too. |
| 18:49.55 | IriX64 | winaxep and I have .... well ... issues :L) |
| 18:54.33 | IriX64 | this is an -march=i386 build too, trying to cover all the bases. |
| 19:11.00 | IriX64 | stuff albumn, proper credit to John Michael Muss |
| 19:38.39 | deltazap | joevalleyfield: that's still awesome :) |
| 19:43.43 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@84.135.64.23) | |
| 20:01.33 | IriX64 | joevalleyfield: success man, it was a path thing, it's flying on windowsxp home edition |
| 20:01.58 | IriX64 | btw xming (nah) :) |
| 20:07.47 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-202.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:18.26 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/445316 <--- ``Erik that last line is why the -c ;) |
| 20:21.21 | IriX64 | i feel like a kid in a candy shop, can't beleive it works :) |
| 20:22.59 | ``Erik | uh huh? and pick, y'know, ogl? |
| 20:23.05 | ``Erik | or null... or X... |
| 20:47.21 | IriX64 | yeah |
| 20:47.33 | IriX64 | works if you have them |
| 20:49.01 | IriX64 | can't see the sense of putting x support in the native windows build but.... |
| 20:52.39 | clock_ | Version 9.9.9? |
| 20:52.45 | clock_ | Is it 6.6.6 upside down? |
| 20:54.36 | IriX64 | next version will be 10.10.10 but yeah you're right it's eveil :) |
| 20:55.45 | IriX64 | and ill stick to that to keep confusion to a minimum, no need you guys getting blasted for *my bugs :) |
| 20:57.16 | ``Erik | 'sok, we blame all our bugs on you anyways ;) |
| 20:57.50 | IriX64 | heh i have broad shoulders anyway might as well use em for something good :) |
| 21:06.48 | IriX64 | that importfg4section thing, whats the easiest way of seeing who relies on those functions versus who relies on the ones in fast4-g? |
| 21:08.11 | IriX64 | should'nt be asking you for help you guys have moved on to 7-10, now theres an idea, can i pirate the appropriate file? |
| 21:11.55 | IriX64 | never mind |
| 21:17.39 | IriX64 | not gonna play with librt :) |
| 21:23.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:25.21 | Maloeran | Ah, IriX64 is still acting as strangely as usual |
| 21:39.35 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 21:48.11 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 22:39.51 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:40.40 | IriX64 | blog->brl-cad albumn latest build |
| 23:08.28 | IriX64 | ok now i have it what do I do with it? |
| 23:19.59 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706746.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:47.06 | IriX64 | twingy lathe version? |
| 23:47.24 | Twingy | nyet, still have a bunch of feature requests to churn through in bugzilla |
| 23:47.41 | Twingy | dxf/stl will get done before that |
| 23:48.00 | IriX64 | never ends does it |
| 23:48.08 | Twingy | nope, that's why I'm in no rush |
| 23:48.18 | Twingy | it's a hobby |
| 23:48.26 | IriX64 | mentioned g-cam to ASI dunno if ythey looked |
| 23:48.43 | IriX64 | same here hobby wise |
| 23:48.48 | Twingy | *shrug* I don't even check my web stats |
| 23:49.01 | Twingy | I have a 350MB http-access file that probly has all kinds of neat stats in it |
| 23:49.22 | IriX64 | heh delete will work wonders on it :) |
| 23:49.38 | Twingy | I've got plenty of disk space, I think I'll keep it around |
| 23:49.47 | IriX64 | sure |
| 23:50.05 | Twingy | it would be neat to integrate my path tracer into gcam to render a final part |
| 23:50.38 | IriX64 | why not integrate gcam into brlcad as an other |
| 23:50.55 | Twingy | because gcam has no connection to brl-cad from a code standpoint |
| 23:51.02 | Twingy | and brl-cad is already too big imho |
| 23:51.14 | IriX64 | sure they'rer both code:) |
| 23:51.27 | Twingy | if I were doing a freebsd package thing, I'd make it multiple packages |
| 23:51.44 | Twingy | and have it prompt user if they want ray-tracer, conversion utilities, gui, etc |
| 23:52.01 | Twingy | and have it pull from separate tar gz downloads |
| 23:52.45 | Twingy | I wish adrt went that way |
| 23:52.49 | Twingy | cause then I could link to it on source forge |
| 23:52.53 | Twingy | as a dependency |
| 23:53.06 | Twingy | instead of downloading entire brl-cad package for only 0.1% of the code |
| 23:53.24 | Twingy | python not work? |
| 23:53.35 | IriX64 | sdl has issues on my system |
| 23:53.41 | Twingy | I threw python and sdl away 2 years ago |
| 23:53.46 | Twingy | it's all gtk now |
| 23:53.51 | Twingy | at least the internal version |
| 23:54.17 | Twingy | sean doesn't like gtk, so it probably won't get integrated :) |
| 23:54.25 | IriX64 | heh |
| 23:54.41 | Twingy | if you make it tcl/tk he'll put it in |
| 23:55.07 | IriX64 | if *i make shouldn't that be you |
| 23:55.24 | Twingy | I don't really see the point |
| 23:55.34 | Twingy | there's plenty of ray-tracers for download that are faster |
| 23:55.49 | Twingy | on a scale from 1 to 10 with all the ray-tracers out there mine is like an 8.5 right now |
| 23:55.59 | Twingy | 2 years ago it was a 9.0 |
| 23:56.39 | IriX64 | i know very little of rt |
| 23:56.48 | IriX64 | just use whats there |
| 23:56.52 | Twingy | same here until I decided to edumacate myself when I was 19 |
| 23:56.54 | IriX64 | in brl-cad |
| 23:57.04 | Twingy | by poking at a sphere tracer and understanding the math |
| 23:57.36 | Twingy | one of the last things I was working on with nurbana was ray-tracing nurbs in 2001 |
| 23:57.46 | Twingy | and trimming |
| 23:57.55 | Twingy | then I got into electronics |
| 23:58.32 | Twingy | I enjoy spending half my day in front of the computer screen and the other half building/testing the stuff |
| 23:58.59 | IriX64 | note my formal education consists of only a certificate in Electronics engineering technology |
| 23:59.13 | IriX64 | that was in 72 |
| 00:01.18 | Twingy | finished my first sprocket last weekend |
| 00:01.22 | Twingy | need to upload pics of that |
| 00:01.23 | Twingy | brb |
| 00:01.30 | IriX64 | sure |
| 00:02.09 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782590.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:03.36 | deltazap | Twingy: yeah, i'd like to see that |
| 00:06.28 | IriX64 | 30 days they give you |
| 00:14.38 | *** join/#brlcad mysticmarks (n=mysticma@adsl-71-142-199-78.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) | |
| 00:14.52 | *** part/#brlcad mysticmarks (n=mysticma@adsl-71-142-199-78.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) | |
| 00:23.12 | louipc | Twingy: yeah that's a good idea about the modularisation. I think I'll consider it in my packaging quest |
| 00:25.58 | bjorkBSD | for archlinux? |
| 00:26.04 | louipc | yeap |
| 00:26.26 | louipc | I'm kind of stuck on tcl and such |
| 00:26.40 | louipc | itcl iwidgets blt |
| 00:42.14 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705689.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:27.50 | IriX64 | bjorkBSD: what were you trying to get me into? Your favorite *nix ;) |
| 01:28.58 | IriX64 | I could try to get you into mine :P |
| 01:48.09 | IriX64 | http://IriX32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 01:52.02 | IriX64 | you want to upload anything to IriX64 blog feel free, but i don't know how to let you do that. |
| 01:53.23 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705689.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:59.16 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/445738 <--- the shot |
| 01:59.23 | IriX64 | that produced that |
| 02:01.24 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 02:06.11 | ``Erik | naturally, that sequence of cd's could be compacted into ../share/brlcad/9.9.9/db |
| 02:06.19 | ``Erik | or you could have done opendb ../share/brlcad/9.9.9/db/havoc.g |
| 02:06.22 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:08.13 | ``Erik | also; the -V option to rt might interest you |
| 02:08.33 | ``Erik | as well as the -H one |
| 02:09.12 | IriX32 | ill learn as i go hows that |
| 02:10.07 | IriX32 | can they be used together ill try now |
| 02:10.52 | ``Erik | they can be used together, yes... -V is for the aspect ration (your screen is probably 4:3, MAYBE 16:9, opposed to the 1:1 you've been rendering) |
| 02:11.16 | IriX32 | ty |
| 02:11.25 | IriX32 | drew nothing tho |
| 02:11.40 | ``Erik | and -H is for hypersampling, combined with the -J flag, it produces much more attractive pictures (super-samples the pixels so aliasing is diminished) |
| 02:12.52 | IriX32 | why is it going through the motions but not rendering in the frame buffer? |
| 02:15.02 | IriX32 | sorry i rotated it to see it does render mea culkpa |
| 02:15.06 | IriX32 | culpa too |
| 02:15.23 | IriX32 | rot 90 0 0 sweet |
| 02:15.42 | ``Erik | hrmmmmmmmm |
| 02:15.44 | ``Erik | erikg@macbook ~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -R -w 800 -a45 -e10 -V4:3 -H5 -J3 -F/dev/Xl -C85/170/200 /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/*/db/havoc.g havoc |
| 02:15.46 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:16.53 | ``Erik | Frame 0: 409600 pixels in 6.24 sec = 65619.35 pixels/sec |
| 02:16.53 | ``Erik | Frame 0: 2468922 rays in 6.24 sec = 395529.94 rays/sec (RTFM) |
| 02:16.53 | ``Erik | Frame 0: 2468922 rays in 12.48 sec = 197764.97 rays/CPU_sec |
| 02:16.53 | ``Erik | Frame 0: 2468922 rays in 6.77 sec = 364807.18 rays/sec (wallclock) |
| 02:17.00 | ``Erik | not bad for a laptop |
| 02:17.25 | IriX32 | some laptop |
| 02:17.28 | IriX32 | :) |
| 02:17.37 | IriX32 | the irix32 blog sideshot |
| 02:17.42 | ``Erik | macbook pro, 2.16ghz intel core duo |
| 02:18.20 | IriX32 | beautiful, ive toyed with the idea of investing in a laptop, you would recommend such as you have to me? |
| 02:19.23 | ``Erik | have to drop some $'s for one like it... personally, I wouldn't with my own money *shrug* |
| 02:19.36 | IriX32 | ty |
| 02:19.37 | ``Erik | my personal laptop is an old ibook, got it for $700 new (was "last years model") |
| 02:19.51 | IriX32 | heh like used cars eh |
| 02:19.56 | ``Erik | slapped a $100 stick of memory in it and an airport card and it was a decent machine |
| 02:20.18 | IriX32 | i don't go anywhere (mores the pity) :) |
| 02:20.40 | ``Erik | computers aren't an investment, they're an expense... one that is quickly obsolete |
| 02:20.55 | IriX32 | too true |
| 02:22.20 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/445759 |
| 02:22.37 | IriX32 | i always forget to disable jove sigh |
| 02:23.26 | Twingy | especially when you spill beer on it |
| 02:23.42 | IriX32 | the laptop, true |
| 02:31.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:31.37 | ``Erik | hey, the laptop survived the beer |
| 02:31.40 | ``Erik | it was just hung over |
| 02:33.51 | Twingy | jiggle the cable |
| 02:34.41 | IriX32 | oh boy |
| 02:35.24 | IriX32 | what was it brlcad said about that sysv5 error use -DBSD ? |
| 02:39.35 | IriX32 | warning not error |
| 02:52.53 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am vers.sh): remove the old vers.sh script. no longer used now that include/conf is in place along with corresponding include/brlcad_version.h routines. |
| 02:53.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (burst.c burst.h): rely on EXIT_SUCCESS/FAILURE even if it is c99 |
| 02:54.32 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fbfade.c fbstretch.c gif-fb.c): rely on EXIT_SUCCESS/FAILURE even if it is c99; use bool_t/1/0 instead of bool/true/false. |
| 02:55.45 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cad_boundp.c cad_parea.c): use bool_t instead of bool until a wholesale c99 conversion is made |
| 02:59.16 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vld_std.h: remove ancient c89 protections, take it as a given |
| 03:05.11 | IriX32 | no wonder i don't like cvs, somebody how do i update my cvs tree? |
| 03:09.16 | IriX32 | never mind :) |
| 03:15.33 | ``Erik | "cvs update" is a hard command, huh? |
| 03:15.49 | IriX32 | man. I'm a post :) |
| 03:17.48 | deltazap | huh, make -j2 was causing problems on my other mac with 7.6.4 |
| 03:26.19 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: elapsed wants the build date. this is now stored in include/conf/DATE. |
| 03:55.11 | IriX32 | brlcad: was it CFLAGS=-DBSD to clear up that sysv5 mite i honestly cant remeber and i dont log... |
| 03:57.06 | IriX32 | ahh sounds familiar ill try it and see |
| 04:03.43 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: distinguish between the full release identifier block and just the version number itself via brlcad_ident() and brlcad_version() respectively. |
| 04:04.26 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 13 dirs): brlcad_version() name changed to brlcad_ident() |
| 04:17.22 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: version details no longer in configure.ac, look in include/conf |
| 04:18.29 | Twingy | peanut buttah jelly time |
| 04:18.45 | Twingy | crunchy |
| 04:31.20 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: += operator does not work on older supported versions of automake. expand. |
| 04:38.54 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: remove reference to BRLCAD_VERSION, create brlcad_data() func as needed instead of using BRLCAD_DATA directly |
| 04:47.50 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): BRLCAD_VERSION is now obsolete, remove all references, use brlcad_version() instead for the triplet. |
| 04:51.04 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: BRLCAD_VERSION is now obsolete, removing all references. now using brlcad_version() instead for the triplet. |
| 05:01.34 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: sort lines |
| 05:31.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tcl.c: needs brlcad_version.h header |
| 05:41.20 | IriX32 | ``Erik just how hard is that update command |
| 05:46.33 | IriX32 | all that time and i got nothing. |
| 05:47.05 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/tcl.c libfb/tcl.c): need brlcad_version.h header |
| 05:56.51 | bjorkBSD | IriX32? that's almost an abomination. |
| 05:59.41 | bjorkBSD | the only good irix is a 64bit version :P |
| 06:12.48 | IriX32 | 42 is only half the answer 84 is the full and correct answer ;) |
| 06:17.34 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-202.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 06:31.59 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/445985 <---- bjorkBSD: thanks for the switches, prettiest pix i ever saw :) |
| 06:35.29 | IriX32 | hahah rot 180 0 0 and im looking at the underbelly |
| 06:37.00 | bjorkBSD | which switches? |
| 06:37.18 | IriX32 | -H -V -J |
| 06:39.08 | bjorkBSD | you're welcome but i think your gratitude is misplaced. |
| 06:39.11 | bjorkBSD | i don't remember them!! |
| 06:39.49 | IriX32 | you e-mailed them long time ago sorry should have explained |
| 06:40.29 | bjorkBSD | ah :) |
| 07:23.46 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:27.55 | *** join/#brlcad bjork__ (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 07:44.05 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
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| 10:51.59 | *** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia (n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) | |
| 10:52.04 | LinuxMafia | hi all |
| 10:52.19 | LinuxMafia | how do i run brlcad? |
| 11:53.02 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:57.29 | deltazap | haha, oops: *vgr lilliput.local 531.61 545.14 696.20 578.27 547.50 2.95 483.61 |
| 11:57.45 | deltazap | i think the 2.95 is when my screen saver kicked in... |
| 12:28.59 | ``Erik | LinuxMafia: you probably want to run "mged" |
| 12:29.15 | ``Erik | delta: what kinda "screen saver" are you running??? O.o like, seti or folding? |
| 12:30.51 | LinuxMafia | ``Erik, hi there |
| 12:31.30 | LinuxMafia | this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black" |
| 12:31.42 | LinuxMafia | this is what i get |
| 12:36.31 | ``Erik | odd, sounds like your X is broken... I'm guessing it tried to query the X color map, and didn't find the definition for black ( |
| 12:38.19 | LinuxMafia | ``Erik, oh |
| 12:38.38 | LinuxMafia | ``Erik, so i have to fix X |
| 12:39.38 | ``Erik | that'd be my "off-the-cuff" guess without knowing any more *shrug* |
| 12:40.08 | LinuxMafia | ``Erik, thanks alot or help |
| 12:40.28 | LinuxMafia | ``Erik, i there any user manual |
| 12:40.34 | ``Erik | I happen to have a /usr/Xorg/lib/X11/rgb.txt that defines all the colors |
| 12:41.12 | LinuxMafia | ``Erik, can you paste it some where plz |
| 12:41.12 | ``Erik | other apps work ok? |
| 12:41.13 | LinuxMafia | ? |
| 12:41.29 | ``Erik | um, it's kinda big? |
| 12:43.25 | ``Erik | (and I have to go to a meeting in a minute) |
| 12:43.25 | LinuxMafia | ok thanks |
| 12:43.25 | LinuxMafia | i will find it |
| 12:45.56 | deltazap | ``Erik: http://ridiculousfish.com/angband/ |
| 12:46.14 | deltazap | APW Borg screen saver that fish put together :P |
| 13:11.44 | deltazap | yup, can't figure out why this geometry is crashing mged without anything in the logs |
| 13:12.37 | ``Erik | what geometry, what are you doing when it "crashes", and how does it crash? |
| 13:26.43 | brlcad | deltazap: that's not a screensaver.. the last benchmark image is not normalized to the same reference |
| 13:43.59 | brlcad | joevalleyfield: ggiterm is what I was trying to remember |
| 13:44.25 | brlcad | cept to mod it and make it use libfb or sdl or something instead of ggi |
| 13:46.33 | joevalleyfield | brlcad, thanks, was apple the only platform that required you to link static to tcl/tk |
| 13:46.53 | brlcad | iirc, yes |
| 13:47.02 | joevalleyfield | awesome |
| 13:47.40 | joevalleyfield | i'm going to try to augment libtools wrapper scripts |
| 13:48.22 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 13:50.07 | brlcad | as part of the build pass? |
| 13:50.24 | joevalleyfield | more likely during configure |
| 13:50.33 | brlcad | ah |
| 13:50.39 | joevalleyfield | i'm uncomfortable making up strange build rules |
| 13:50.59 | brlcad | there's already a hack in configure.ac to fix libtool |
| 13:51.11 | joevalleyfield | that's where i should hook in |
| 13:51.21 | brlcad | libtool's -all_load br0kage |
| 13:51.49 | joevalleyfield | why do we need -all_load to work? |
| 13:52.11 | brlcad | we don't |
| 13:52.17 | brlcad | libtool uses all_load |
| 13:52.25 | brlcad | and that is wrong |
| 13:52.31 | joevalleyfield | ah |
| 13:52.42 | brlcad | they fixed it shortly after in a later release |
| 13:52.48 | brlcad | but the version the macs ship have the bug |
| 13:52.53 | joevalleyfield | do you only conditionally patch? |
| 13:53.13 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 13:53.27 | joevalleyfield | if it's a new version, do you leave it alone? |
| 13:53.35 | brlcad | ah, yeah |
| 13:53.44 | brlcad | but if it's a new version, it doesn't have the problem :) |
| 13:54.41 | brlcad | if it's a mac (ugh, plat), it does a sed replace on all_load, warning as needed |
| 13:55.09 | joevalleyfield | sounds good to me |
| 13:55.22 | joevalleyfield | isn't that in autogen.sh though? |
| 13:55.26 | brlcad | couldn't say for certain whether all_load is valid on anything else, so it checks darwin |
| 13:55.54 | brlcad | no, the libtool script doesn't exist until after ac_output |
| 13:56.05 | joevalleyfield | that makes sense |
| 13:56.05 | joevalleyfield | ok |
| 13:57.14 | brlcad | what I didn't figure out is why the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH setup in the app wrappers weren't working |
| 13:57.43 | brlcad | it specifies the directories to look in, but the binary still tries to load from prefix |
| 13:58.57 | joevalleyfield | it doesn't specify tcl and tk anymore |
| 13:59.07 | brlcad | que? |
| 13:59.50 | brlcad | you mean the libs don't do a libadd? |
| 14:00.03 | joevalleyfield | since you aren't replacing tcl and tk's build system, it doens't find libtk.la |
| 14:00.17 | joevalleyfield | it only finds the libtk.dylib and pulls out it's real_path |
| 14:01.05 | brlcad | yeah, but that shouldn't matter with a DYLD set |
| 14:01.26 | brlcad | it's still got search rules |
| 14:01.41 | joevalleyfield | the point is DYLD isn't set |
| 14:01.55 | joevalleyfield | it has itcl and itk |
| 14:02.04 | joevalleyfield | because they still use your build |
| 14:02.14 | brlcad | er, you talking about the same thing? |
| 14:09.02 | joevalleyfield | sure :) |
| 14:36.44 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: map POSIX read permissions in MSVC |
| 14:51.24 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/.cvsignore: stamp-h1 is still autogenerated, ignore |
| 14:55.29 | ``Erik | iiiiinteresting, it's refusing to build shared libs for me O.o |
| 15:43.47 | brlcad | dust bunnies |
| 15:43.54 | brlcad | they're on the rampage today |
| 15:56.25 | deltazap | brlcad: oh, shows i know how to read numbers |
| 15:57.24 | deltazap | let me upload my .g file of the geometry i'm locking mged up with |
| 15:59.46 | *** join/#brlcad agelmi (n=526a0573@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:01.51 | deltazap | http://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/8020-25.g |
| 16:05.12 | deltazap | now, what i did was a matrix select and then scaled x for a distance, then did 'rot 0 70 0', and then Z and redrew the region i was working on |
| 16:06.24 | agelmi | hi |
| 16:06.48 | agelmi | which is the binary to lanch the program under debian? |
| 16:07.19 | deltazap | mged |
| 16:07.29 | agelmi | thank you |
| 16:07.35 | agelmi | :) |
| 16:07.40 | deltazap | no problem :) |
| 16:15.05 | deltazap | well, it at least brings up a bad matrix error |
| 17:05.20 | IriX32 | ``Erik shame on you lauging at my toy system ;) |
| 17:05.27 | IriX32 | laughing too |
| 17:16.18 | ``Erik | no, it looks like the cvs was blown away, then the program was re-imported (so the files were all there, but all the revision history was gone, updates whined about not able to find revision 1.31 or whatever) |
| 17:55.20 | Maloeran | Erik, Survice cleaned up all CVS history to remove all traces of GPL |
| 17:55.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:55.41 | ``Erik | and several changes I'd introduced, and all the history so stuff broke, and ... |
| 17:56.42 | Maloeran | Yes, it's a bit messy. I haven't quite understood the point of doing so |
| 17:56.43 | ``Erik | wow... |
| 17:56.43 | ``Erik | isActive = (isActive == true) ? true : false; |
| 17:56.59 | Maloeran | Neat! Where did you find that? |
| 17:57.47 | Maloeran | I once saw something like : if( foo & BAR ) foo &= ~BAR; too |
| 17:58.15 | ``Erik | http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The_Friday_Farrago_.aspx |
| 18:01.06 | Maloeran | Nice stuff |
| 18:02.11 | Maloeran | It's a pity I'm not allowed to share some... interesting pieces of Fortran code too |
| 18:03.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:03.13 | ``Erik | I may have ya trumped with fortran code |
| 18:31.51 | ``Erik | joevalleyfield |
| 18:33.11 | joevalleyfield | yo |
| 18:33.21 | ``Erik | my file server, /usr/tmp, there's a present for ya |
| 18:35.50 | joevalleyfield | sweet |
| 19:05.40 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/446924 < sweet success |
| 19:08.29 | brlcad | deltazap: matrix select on what? |
| 19:09.36 | brlcad | did you apply/accept those edits? a Z cancels any pending edits |
| 19:09.47 | deltazap | accepted them |
| 19:10.21 | deltazap | the problem is that for some reason, if you do a scale then rotation, the matrix for that object craps out |
| 19:10.27 | brlcad | ooooh, |
| 19:10.29 | brlcad | got it |
| 19:11.24 | deltazap | the error is "matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity" |
| 19:11.44 | deltazap | which i'm guessing that it doesn't like that it's not at a 90 degree angle to the starting position |
| 19:12.11 | brlcad | yeah, I think the x scaling is a red herring |
| 19:12.19 | brlcad | the rotation is key.. hmm |
| 19:13.01 | deltazap | also, is rotobj supposed to do the same as orot? |
| 19:13.32 | brlcad | basically |
| 19:13.48 | brlcad | though rotobj has an optional arg to indicate that values are incremental |
| 19:13.48 | deltazap | ok, just making sure |
| 19:14.00 | deltazap | yeah, but that would make it function like rot |
| 19:39.15 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 19:39.49 | IriX32 | milestone :) |
| 19:41.32 | ``Erik | http://thedailywtf.com/forums/59028/PostAttachment.aspx |
| 19:44.16 | IriX32 | told you ``Erik the real answer is 84 :) |
| 19:45.06 | IriX32 | ouch 3.6 fps |
| 19:45.37 | IriX32 | shouldn't do this while i'm compiling |
| 19:45.38 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875ffb.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:51.19 | IriX32 | ``Erik i'm looking at it don't see it |
| 19:52.22 | IriX32 | ahh you're passing on to configure tcl |
| 19:53.34 | IriX32 | ah and tk and enigma |
| 19:53.55 | IriX32 | i didnt' check to see if tcl configured with shared or not let me look in config.log |
| 19:55.25 | IriX32 | it did it passed --disable shared to it ``Erik |
| 19:55.54 | IriX32 | and enable sysmbols cause debug is set by default |
| 19:55.55 | ``Erik | yeah, uh, my statement wasn't about the technical mechanism, it was about why brlcad put it there... :) |
| 19:56.07 | joevalleyfield | he did it for mac |
| 19:56.11 | IriX32 | turn debug off :) |
| 19:56.14 | joevalleyfield | i'm working hard to make it go away |
| 19:56.37 | ``Erik | :) it's making lib work on a non-mac a bitch hehehehe |
| 19:56.51 | joevalleyfield | than fix that line and continue on your way :) |
| 19:57.03 | ``Erik | <-- has it commented out |
| 19:57.11 | IriX32 | heh wheres the fine adjustment tool |
| 19:58.38 | IriX32 | raytrace complete didn't even notice |
| 20:00.38 | IriX32 | haha emitting photons :) |
| 20:01.18 | IriX32 | perhaps a mac for my birthday |
| 20:02.08 | ``Erik | tired of being the only windows user here? :D |
| 20:02.29 | joevalleyfield | we need a windows user |
| 20:02.37 | IriX32 | not yet, i kind of enjoy being whatever it is I am to you :) |
| 20:02.39 | joevalleyfield | preferably one that uses msys to build brlcad from cvs |
| 20:02.44 | ``Erik | indeed :/ |
| 20:02.58 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:03.01 | ``Erik | cygwin with -mno-cygwin should be fine *shrug* |
| 20:03.03 | IriX32 | hey i succeded in doing an update today |
| 20:03.24 | IriX32 | ``Erik still have issues with that but its on a burner |
| 20:04.29 | IriX32 | but -mno-win32 works |
| 20:04.55 | ``Erik | heh, but we WANT win32, we want to ditch the cygwin/X requirement on winderz... :D |
| 20:05.22 | IriX32 | thats for compiling, simply doesn't define standard windows defines |
| 20:05.32 | IriX32 | like _WIN32 |
| 20:10.33 | IriX32 | my way is viable too pick your own xserver for your winderez box |
| 20:11.07 | IriX32 | currently running Xwin32 evaluation |
| 20:14.29 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos <-- I offer proof |
| 20:15.40 | joevalleyfield | just because it works doesn't mean its appealing |
| 20:16.34 | IriX32 | what if i sugar coat it :) |
| 20:35.48 | joevalleyfield | ``Erik: you were smokin Irix32's sugar-coated crack pipe too long |
| 20:38.40 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the first two pix are from the windows side of the house, your brlcad code and my 6 dll'd |
| 20:38.52 | IriX32 | err dll's |
| 20:55.11 | IriX32 | scared myself, windows side of the house didn't have /usr/brlcad/bin path set blew up nicely |
| 20:56.25 | IriX32 | wonder if i can start it from the desktop.... i'll have to edit system path easy job |
| 20:59.42 | IriX32 | beautiful dbl click and its up |
| 21:00.16 | IriX32 | assigned a nice little star icon to my baby star mged :) |
| 21:25.54 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 21:27.05 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706457.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:41.30 | IriX32 | that was fun whats next :) |
| 21:42.57 | IriX32 | gonna make one for march=i386 should cover all (well not mac but...) |
| 21:44.56 | IriX32 | if i asked for volunteer to test would i get any takers? |
| 21:45.50 | IriX32 | in a channel full of unix people i said that told you i'm a post sometimes :) |
| 21:51.00 | ``Erik | syntax error, does not parse |
| 22:03.53 | IriX32 | dumb as a post :) |
| 22:30.21 | IriX32 | if we remove the cygwin dependencies it wouldn't be cygwin anymore, I have however removed the dependency on cygwin-x is this not sufficent |
| 22:32.42 | IriX32 | i did not hack brlcad to do this |
| 22:33.42 | IriX32 | far as brlcad is concerned its running on some *nix platform (but i gotta do something about exec ls) |
| 22:35.18 | IriX32 | even with -mno-cygwin you're still tied to the xserver ``Erik |
| 22:38.56 | IriX32 | for console apps it works right now |
| 23:38.48 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:35.37 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/ (10 files in 4 dirs): framework for a spam bot |
| 00:49.49 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: filter checks |
| 02:26.47 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 03:11.42 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: host and message filters |
| 03:46.53 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: fixes and a mode to play nice |
| 03:49.54 | *** join/#brlcad IriX32 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:59.36 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos <--- Serious progress |
| 04:13.47 | IriX32 | heh real serious, visit again if you like :) |
| 04:20.39 | IriX32 | I don't want you guys being blamed for my shody work, so I adopted 9.9.9 and so on as my version system, perhaps one day I'll be able to really contribute. |
| 04:38.38 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/ircCommands.cpp: prevent a crash if the commands are wrong |
| 04:39.00 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: nice mode is now 3 strikes. |
| 04:50.23 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: reg with nickserv |
| 05:55.54 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 06:04.17 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: whitespace, and add better verification to the bot |
| 06:04.49 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: whitespace, and add better verification to the bot |
| 06:17.34 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/ (src/spamBot.cpp vc7.1/spamBot.vcproj): nickserv fixes and making it work in release |
| 06:30.49 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: bug fixes |
| 07:34.19 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 10:52.28 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 11:05.11 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: typo, missing underscore on RT_LIBS for binfo |
| 12:32.28 | brlcad | deltazap: you've uncountered a rather annoying bug, but I think I have found a work-around |
| 12:34.22 | brlcad | the bug is related to having multiply referenced primitives with various transformations |
| 12:34.28 | clock_ | brlcad: is it only for referencing primitives or also for combinations? |
| 12:34.28 | brlcad | if you xpush (either before the edit or before the Z), it'll work |
| 12:35.13 | brlcad | clock_: the bug you reported is slightly related, but different issue.. yours was for either primitives or combinations .. multiple references in a single combination |
| 12:35.52 | brlcad | what deltazap uncovered should just be for primitives |
| 12:36.51 | joevalleyfield | brlcad: does mged -c with the ogl dm work for you on the mac? |
| 12:36.58 | joevalleyfield | it's crashing my X11 |
| 12:38.45 | joevalleyfield | the normal mode works fine and is definately using the ogl dm |
| 12:38.45 | brlcad | i don't have a 7.10.0 to test, but 7.8.0 crashes X11 for me |
| 12:38.45 | joevalleyfield | great |
| 12:38.45 | joevalleyfield | i'm talking about my own tree and was hoping it wasn't my fault :) |
| 12:38.45 | brlcad | so whatever it is has been in there for a while |
| 12:41.02 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged -c, select ogl display manager, crashes X11 -- tested on os x; confirmed at least back throuh 7.8.0 |
| 13:00.01 | *** join/#brlcad p0g0 (n=pogo@madwifi/support/p0g0) | |
| 13:07.43 | clock_ | brlcad: can't it be easily fixed? |
| 13:10.00 | brlcad | can't what be easily fixed? |
| 13:10.54 | clock_ | the bugs with multiple reference |
| 13:14.17 | brlcad | probably, hard to say without digging more deeply |
| 13:14.49 | brlcad | it used to work too -- should be a traceable problem |
| 13:16.04 | brlcad | it's also mged-specific |
| 13:16.24 | brlcad | the engine doesn't particular care -- it does the right thing |
| 13:26.20 | brlcad | deltazap: more details.. the bug seems specifically tied to doing both the scale edit with the mouse and the follow-up rotation with the command window |
| 13:26.59 | brlcad | so it's actually not at all related to multiply referenced prims.. just some state inconsistency between the gui edit state and the command window's state |
| 13:55.43 | deltazap | huh, interesting |
| 13:55.48 | brlcad | deltazap: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1703625&group_id=105292&atid=640802 |
| 13:56.49 | deltazap | :D |
| 13:58.24 | deltazap | i have to say, though, i now understand the matrices a bit more |
| 14:13.17 | deltazap | oh, i'll have a model up later today with my supersecret hidden message for the competition tomorrow |
| 14:20.07 | *** join/#brlcad space_ninja (n=guiden@81-233-49-201-no58.tbcn.telia.com) | |
| 14:20.43 | brlcad | heh, nice nick |
| 14:21.01 | brlcad | deltazap: cool |
| 14:24.43 | deltazap | also, the projection shader is neatt |
| 14:24.45 | deltazap | *neat |
| 14:57.45 | *** join/#brlcad cad41 (n=db4e3fb2@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 16:11.22 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 17:04.30 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/todo.txt: notes on stuff todo later if needed |
| 18:47.30 | *** join/#brlcad dli_ (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 18:48.27 | dli_ | building brlcad from source messes up installed system tcl/tk libraries. any easy solution? like --prefix=/usr/brlcad/ ? |
| 18:54.33 | dli_ | IriX32, I tried --prefix=/usr/brlcad/ , I think brlcad still builds tcl/tk libraries in /usr/ |
| 18:54.56 | IriX32 | --prefix is for the install |
| 18:55.10 | IriX32 | it builds tcl/tk in the brlcad directories |
| 18:55.23 | IriX32 | src/other/tcl |
| 18:55.58 | dli_ | IriX32, yes, "make install" in that folder |
| 18:56.44 | IriX32 | what are you tring to install, the whole thing? just do a make install in thew brlcad root |
| 18:57.09 | dli_ | IriX32, " autogen.sh; ./configure <options>; make; make install |
| 18:57.15 | IriX32 | yes |
| 18:57.23 | IriX32 | use --prefix if you like |
| 18:57.36 | IriX32 | if you dont it will default to /usr/brlcad |
| 18:58.10 | dli_ | IriX32, everything in /usr/brlcad? I'm worried but messing up /usr/lib64/ |
| 18:58.43 | IriX32 | should not touch it |
| 18:58.54 | IriX32 | everything will be under usr/brlcad |
| 18:59.26 | dli_ | IriX32, also, the README file recommends cvs over tar ball. is that still valid? |
| 18:59.30 | IriX32 | i have numerous brlcad builds :) |
| 18:59.43 | IriX32 | as far as i know yes dli_ |
| 18:59.59 | IriX32 | tarball=much fun:) |
| 19:00.38 | dli_ | IriX32, oh, can I force brlcad to use existing tcl/tk-8.4? so I can expect less library problems |
| 19:01.02 | IriX32 | not for the faint of heart |
| 19:01.22 | IriX32 | meaning brlcad builds tcl tk for a reason |
| 19:01.31 | dli_ | IriX32, thanks |
| 19:01.40 | IriX32 | welcome |
| 19:02.11 | IriX32 | but they to will be installed in the usr/brlcad dir dli no worries |
| 19:02.15 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:02.32 | IriX32 | your system stuff doesn't need to be touched |
| 19:02.51 | IriX32 | i dont even set my path, just switch to usr/brlcad/bin and go |
| 19:03.17 | dli_ | IriX32, I can set PATH at user base, should be fine |
| 19:03.25 | IriX32 | all right |
| 19:04.24 | dli_ | IriX32, another question, any chance saying brlcad in a linux distribution? |
| 19:05.03 | IriX32 | this i can't answe there are binaries on sourceforge but i haven't visited recently to see |
| 19:06.18 | IriX32 | don't know if they are up to date dli_ |
| 19:13.10 | dli_ | IriX32, just in case, I found I have to patch some tcl/tk Makefiles, in order to "make", the patch: http://pastebin.ca/448580 |
| 19:15.00 | IriX32 | ahh that doc thing, i worked around it too |
| 19:15.11 | IriX32 | *you should file a bug report |
| 19:15.46 | IriX32 | i cant cause my system is strange |
| 19:15.49 | dli_ | IriX32, you definitely understand this better, please file the bug report |
| 19:16.01 | IriX32 | cannot i have a deal in place |
| 19:16.30 | IriX32 | its there in activestates stand alone system disros too |
| 19:16.36 | IriX32 | distros |
| 19:16.38 | dli_ | IriX32, maybe an automake version thing? |
| 19:17.06 | IriX32 | happens here to i use automake 8.5 i think |
| 19:17.12 | IriX32 | 1.8.5 |
| 19:17.44 | dli_ | IriX32, what about 1.9 or 1.10? they both fail ./configure |
| 19:18.04 | IriX32 | this i know thsats why i dropped back to 1.8.5 |
| 19:18.06 | dli_ | while README recommends automake >= 1.9 |
| 19:18.32 | IriX32 | i go with what works |
| 19:18.40 | IriX32 | errr on *my system |
| 19:19.29 | dli_ | IriX32, another thing funny, my system is linux, I can see ./configure tests a lot of Windows stuff |
| 19:20.56 | dli_ | brlcad, please file the bug report. I go back to work now |
| 19:26.43 | IriX32 | dli brlcad has a whole couple of trees for windows compilers |
| 19:40.52 | IriX32 | dli... my system is wondows, it tests a lot of unix stuff :P |
| 19:40.57 | IriX32 | windows too |
| 19:45.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix parameter bounding, suppress debug statements. yay! untrimmed breps raytrace! |
| 19:48.18 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: change material back to plastic |
| 19:49.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: perturb a vertex for testing... |
| 19:52.27 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/448637 <--- where's ``Erik ;) |
| 19:56.12 | IriX32 | 04/18/2007 02:45 PM 15,739,151 mged.exe |
| 19:56.19 | IriX32 | :) |
| 20:31.14 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875461.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:03.47 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: |
| 21:03.48 | CIA-14 | libIRC: track hostmasks for masters |
| 21:03.48 | CIA-14 | libIRC: help on comamnds |
| 21:03.48 | CIA-14 | libIRC: stuff to set options |
| 21:03.48 | CIA-14 | libIRC: many changes. |
| 21:15.32 | brlcad | not impossible |
| 21:15.38 | brlcad | just highly improbable |
| 21:16.26 | IriX32 | i know but i can wish |
| 21:16.30 | IriX32 | and ride |
| 21:17.01 | ``Erik | well, if you were a gov't employee or contractor with sufficient privileges and a need to have that bit of geometry, ... |
| 21:17.22 | ``Erik | until then, enjoy the ktank. :) |
| 21:17.38 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:17.59 | IriX32 | ktank is next for the blog |
| 21:18.03 | IriX32 | soons this compile finishes |
| 21:18.13 | IriX32 | the cube is nice too |
| 21:18.29 | ``Erik | did the hilux get all signed off on? |
| 21:18.41 | clock_ | IriX32: enjoy the Ronja, or you can even model missing things |
| 21:18.46 | ``Erik | or that old russian heap? |
| 21:18.58 | clock_ | like 90mm caliber Ronja or the new Plazmatron holder |
| 21:19.02 | IriX32 | clock_ thanks |
| 21:19.06 | IriX32 | :) |
| 21:20.00 | clock_ | How big gun is a 130mm gun? |
| 21:20.02 | ``Erik | 90mm and a muzzle velocity of 300,000 km/s, pheersome |
| 21:20.39 | ``Erik | ? |
| 21:20.43 | clock_ | ``Erik: the holder weighs 15kg, for the recoil |
| 21:20.53 | brlcad | http://pastebin.ca/448580 |
| 21:20.58 | IriX32 | brlcad i didn't look real close but i think he got by that no such file or directory near the end of the install |
| 21:21.15 | brlcad | presumably those for loops aren't globbing correctly if his patch really was necessary |
| 21:21.25 | brlcad | but then that patch will break those that are working right |
| 21:22.10 | brlcad | also hadn't noticed tcl/tk installing outside of the prefix |
| 21:22.21 | brlcad | seems to stay contained here |
| 21:23.08 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: whitelist add/remove functions |
| 21:26.32 | IriX32 | stays contained here too ``Erik |
| 21:26.54 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 21:26.57 | IriX32 | ktank |
| 21:27.53 | IriX32 | should i render it? |
| 21:28.13 | IriX32 | btw this is the unix high on windows version :) |
| 21:29.31 | IriX32 | if i compile static against system libs i should be home free right? |
| 21:33.04 | ``Erik | for i in $(TOP_DIR)/doc/*.1; do install $(TOP_DIR)/doc/$$i... install /usr/brlcad/doc/usr/brlcad/doc/poo.1 ; ...? |
| 21:39.18 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: include/conf/DATE is generated, so in builddir |
| 21:44.15 | IriX32 | Xwin32 is so good i ight spring for it |
| 21:44.21 | IriX32 | might too |
| 21:45.01 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/Makefile.am: autogen says blank lines after / is bad |
| 21:46.34 | bjorkBSD | get a bsd box. |
| 21:46.37 | bjorkBSD | it comes with x ;) |
| 21:46.49 | IriX32 | so did cygwin ;) |
| 21:46.58 | bjorkBSD | mmm |
| 21:47.06 | IriX32 | didn't want to get married though ;) |
| 21:47.25 | bjorkBSD | hehehe |
| 21:47.37 | IriX32 | :) |
| 21:48.06 | IriX32 | rendering it now stay tuned :) |
| 21:48.34 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/Makefile.am: or just oldcode may not exist= |
| 21:50.20 | IriX32 | + people |
| 21:52.20 | IriX32 | waiting on ray trace complete, may be here a while |
| 22:13.41 | IriX32 | emmiting photons, who are you kidding :) |
| 22:14.26 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: when listing the help topics return when done, don't try to find help for a blank topic. |
| 22:15.07 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/448850 |
| 22:15.56 | IriX32 | that sysv5 warning is what was discusssed moons ago? |
| 22:24.10 | IriX32 | cp -r brlcad brlcad-7.10.0 |
| 22:24.10 | IriX32 | crapz sorry |
| 22:40.12 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/448885 <---7.10.0 configure no display ? I do have X at least |
| 22:41.45 | IriX32 | X11R6 if anybody cares |
| 22:54.20 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 23:11.32 | p0g0 | Hi, I've a linux 2.6 kernel, installed the 7.8.4 deb from sourceforge. Invoking mged wants glibc_2.4, but no such dependency was reported by the deb. Should I remove the deb, download the source and build? |
| 23:16.39 | bjorkBSD | best bet |
| 23:16.43 | bjorkBSD | what's wrong with 7.10? |
| 23:16.47 | bjorkBSD | you don't like new things? |
| 23:17.52 | p0g0 | bjorkBSD: you asking me- I'm new to brlcad, and a deb is often a much easier thing to install...if it works. |
| 23:18.13 | bjorkBSD | if. ;) |
| 23:19.18 | p0g0 | but I've no issue with building it- I gather that's the sage advice then. |
| 23:19.38 | bjorkBSD | indeedy. |
| 23:19.46 | bjorkBSD | the packages aren't all out yet for 7.10 |
| 23:20.21 | p0g0 | I'll scurry of to crank up the compiler now... thanks |
| 23:20.29 | bjorkBSD | no problema. |
| 23:22.18 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/448936 <--- i know my system is strange but... other configure scripts can figure it out. (that's tcl/tk script they both report that.) |
| 23:25.10 | bjorkBSD | ``Erik, are you the freebsd ports maintainer for brlcad? |
| 23:35.08 | ``Erik | jez, I need to fix the patch, cvs is being gooby about deleted files |
| 23:35.09 | ``Erik | I also need to fix the tcl detection so'z I can dep on lang/tcl85 and x11-toolkits/tk85 :/ |
| 23:38.27 | ``Erik | (whyfor?) |
| 23:39.13 | bjorkBSD | oh i was about to take a hand at doing it when i noticed an 'erik' in the Makefile. |
| 23:39.20 | bjorkBSD | mind you, i've never done it before and since you're here ... :D |
| 23:43.22 | ``Erik | take a hand at doing what? a port update? hehehe |
| 23:43.39 | ``Erik | hit pointyhat and look for broken ones owned by ports@ |
| 23:44.14 | bjorkBSD | yeah. |
| 23:44.29 | bjorkBSD | but it looks very hairy with it's ski-mask off :-S |
| 23:46.25 | IriX32 | it's what's in it's hand you have to be carefull of :P |
| 23:46.39 | bjorkBSD | what? it's only an ice-ax |
| 23:46.51 | bjorkBSD | hmm. a sharp edge. |
| 23:46.55 | bjorkBSD | *backs away* |
| 23:47.20 | brlcad | IriX32: we don't do that ar check, that's all in autoconf's hands -- you'd probably need to reautogen using the latest autotools if you're not |
| 23:47.31 | brlcad | but there's still pretty much nothing we can do about it |
| 23:47.55 | IriX32 | ty |
| 23:48.47 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/448986 <--- what'd i do now. (7.10.0 again) |
| 23:48.57 | brlcad | p0g0: yeah, there are several issues with that deb -- there's not a full-time debian maintainer, that was contributed |
| 23:49.28 | brlcad | IriX32: no idea, but it looks somewhat hosed |
| 23:49.38 | IriX32 | somewhat |
| 23:49.52 | IriX32 | urf ill checkout again :) |
| 23:52.04 | brlcad | ``Erik: exactly.. i don't see how adding TOP_DIR/doc fixed anything |
| 01:21.05 | IriX32 | K-tank delivered (sorta) |
| 01:22.32 | IriX32 | photo-shop is really hard ;) |
| 01:22.32 | deltazap | brlcad: quick question, how i can i change the name of a region or primative and all references |
| 01:32.46 | brlcad | erm |
| 01:33.05 | brlcad | there's a command for that.. what's it called.. think it's on the cheat sheet |
| 01:33.10 | deltazap | looking... |
| 01:33.12 | brlcad | mebbie mvall |
| 01:33.30 | deltazap | ah, ok |
| 02:08.47 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/ (disabled checkoutlist): libirc is now migrated over to svn. disable access to everything except to CVSROOT. |
| 02:09.03 | IriX32 | i stupidly thought windows gl would not be picked up. |
| 02:09.21 | IriX32 | your check works :) |
| 02:09.43 | IriX32 | gives me grief with if_wgl.c tho |
| 02:09.54 | IriX32 | so hard coded it off for now |
| 02:10.08 | brlcad | should work of course |
| 02:10.13 | IriX32 | should |
| 02:11.09 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03brlcad * 10libirc/COPYING: LGPL, test commit |
| 02:12.03 | IriX32 | its in libfb |
| 02:14.43 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/ (avail checkoutlist disabled): oop, file needs to actually be named avail |
| 02:15.49 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03brlcad * 10libirc/README: test commit |
| 02:16.13 | IriX32 | that was intended for the civilians like me sir :) |
| 02:18.18 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/449168 <--- this one however is just a warning but still... |
| 02:23.38 | brlcad | spurious |
| 02:24.32 | IriX32 | serious :) |
| 02:29.42 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/ (11 files): quell spurious/bogus warning about datarootdir being ignored |
| 02:40.26 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/449200 < --will this work, not worried about JavaVM at the moment. |
| 02:40.31 | deltazap | brlcad: will a projection project around a curved surface? |
| 02:45.14 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 02:46.54 | dli | cvs problem, after ./autogen.sh, ./configure found missing Makefile.in |
| 02:47.47 | brlcad | dli: cvs -q update -dP |
| 02:47.49 | IriX32 | forgot fi sorry guys |
| 02:47.58 | brlcad | check for conflicts if you had an existing checkout |
| 02:48.06 | brlcad | deltazap: sure |
| 02:48.52 | dli | IriX32, yes, I removed the original folder, doesn't help |
| 02:49.19 | IriX32 | uh which makefile.in is missing |
| 02:50.32 | brlcad | usually implies either need an cvs update -dP or there's a line missing from configure.ac to generate the Makefile.in |
| 02:51.11 | IriX32 | try ./autogen.sh --verbose |
| 03:20.37 | IriX32 | the things i then do to myself/ |
| 03:25.05 | dli | IriX32, works? |
| 03:25.42 | IriX32 | which? |
| 03:25.55 | IriX32 | got several things happening here. |
| 03:26.20 | dli | missing Makefile.in from cvs |
| 03:27.51 | IriX32 | man cvs does not provide makefile.in's |
| 03:28.04 | IriX32 | generated by autogen |
| 03:28.14 | IriX32 | thats why the --verbose switch |
| 03:35.22 | IriX32 | know your system :) |
| 03:37.30 | IriX32 | heh it woulda worked if i had jni.h ;) |
| 03:43.55 | deltazap | brlcad: if you want to take a look at the challenge for tomorrow, it's up at http://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/challenge.zip |
| 03:44.11 | deltazap | good luck ;) and no cheating by converting the pix files :P |
| 03:44.13 | dli | IriX32, thanks:) |
| 03:44.29 | IriX32 | dli welcome |
| 03:45.42 | IriX32 | btw dli, i'm no expert, just the resident comic :) |
| 03:46.00 | IriX32 | i think ;) |
| 03:48.13 | IriX32 | my presence here goes unnoticed |
| 03:50.14 | dli | cvs -z3 -d ":pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad" update -dP brlcad brlcad |
| 03:50.29 | dli | IriX32, do I pass some ENV to autogen.sh? |
| 03:55.33 | dli | IriX32, config.status: WARNING: Makefile.in seems to ignore the --datarootdir setting |
| 04:00.38 | IriX32 | checking that right now, wait a bit |
| 04:01.33 | IriX32 | a compile and a configure running at the same time, needs patience. |
| 04:05.59 | dli | IriX32, I guess it's automake-version problem |
| 04:06.31 | IriX32 | hmmm x11 does not appear to be functionaly available still? (i did an update mere 15 minutes ago) |
| 04:06.43 | IriX32 | dli wait |
| 04:07.21 | dli | IriX32, using automake-1.10 has no Makefile.in problem |
| 04:08.26 | IriX32 | really? i'm using 1.8.5 and the last update i got fixed it looks like |
| 04:08.36 | IriX32 | cvs update |
| 04:09.01 | dli | IriX32, good, it's building |
| 04:09.07 | IriX32 | good |
| 04:10.06 | dli | IriX32, I updated the tcl/tk doc patch, http://pastebin.ca/449316 |
| 04:10.16 | IriX32 | ty |
| 04:11.01 | IriX32 | man i do not speak make sorry. |
| 04:11.43 | IriX32 | brlcad that last did the trick re dataroot dir thingy |
| 04:12.05 | dli | IriX32, what trick? |
| 04:12.32 | IriX32 | updating after his last commit |
| 04:12.42 | dli | IriX32, no idea |
| 04:14.12 | IriX32 | http://pastebin.ca/449325 <-- summary of plain ./autogen.sh ./configure |
| 04:14.26 | dli | ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/lib64/itcl3.3/ ITK_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/lib64/itk3.3/ /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 04:15.05 | dli | good |
| 04:15.30 | dli | I want to build a /usr/bin/brlcad (a script to run /usr/brlcad/bin/brlcad ) |
| 04:15.52 | IriX32 | ? |
| 04:16.24 | dli | IriX32, sorry, to /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 04:16.41 | IriX32 | just set your path |
| 04:17.09 | IriX32 | don't ask me how that's done :) |
| 04:35.41 | dli | IriX32, good, I got cvs running |
| 04:40.19 | IriX32 | dli you said you're using archlinux right |
| 04:46.14 | IriX32 | txUnixMenubu.c in tk/unix is misssing a #include "default.h" watch out for it. |
| 04:48.00 | IriX32 | break time |
| 04:48.23 | dli | IriX32, gentoo |
| 04:48.35 | dli | IriX32, use automake-1.10? |
| 04:48.52 | IriX32 | that fixes it? |
| 04:49.06 | IriX32 | whatever works man |
| 04:49.16 | dli | IriX32, yes |
| 04:49.50 | IriX32 | guess i should upgrade...someday... but if it's not broken you know... |
| 04:51.26 | dli | IriX32, rebuild to double check the building script |
| 05:04.50 | IriX32 | dli, don't follow, autogen works here |
| 05:27.50 | dli | IriX32, I submitted my ebuilds to http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197 |
| 05:29.40 | IriX32 | good |
| 05:30.07 | dli | IriX32, double checked, it works for me |
| 05:30.37 | IriX32 | good mine always did work |
| 05:31.03 | dli | IriX32, gentoo is still mysterious to me :( |
| 05:31.21 | IriX32 | life is mysterious to me :) |
| 05:34.44 | dli | IriX32, sure, buddha said there are as many worlds like ours as number of sands in the river Ganges |
| 05:35.40 | IriX32 | *I say life is elementary school, how you make out here determines which high school you go to |
| 05:39.23 | dli | IriX32, buddha say everyone has his or her own buddha, and all lives are equal |
| 05:39.58 | IriX32 | but the routes to the final destination are various |
| 05:41.49 | IriX32 | some take the high road some take the rocky road |
| 05:42.10 | dli | IriX32, there's no such "final destination", giving the multiverse world |
| 05:42.55 | IriX32 | ahh i beg to differ, the eternal kingdom is under construction, we're expected to help build it |
| 05:43.56 | IriX32 | someday i'll tell you about my golden dream, and my impossible golden dream :) |
| 05:44.06 | dli | IriX32, you can enjoy your world :) and buddha wants to help everyone |
| 05:44.25 | IriX32 | it's your world too, live it up |
| 05:44.30 | IriX32 | :) |
| 05:45.03 | dli | IriX32, no, since everyone can has a different buddha, not necessarily the same |
| 05:45.39 | IriX32 | all names refer to one being |
| 05:46.14 | dli | IriX32, buddha doesn't see an almighty creator for the multiverse :) |
| 05:46.39 | IriX32 | you saying your buddah |
| 05:48.29 | dli | IriX32, yes, buddha knows there are other buddhas, so, there's no concept of infidel for him. because there's no non-believers, just other buddhas |
| 05:48.44 | IriX32 | was thanking God for something one day, and thought to ask after his day, into my mind pops the word splendacious |
| 05:48.59 | IriX32 | i didn't even know that word existed before that |
| 05:49.04 | dli | IriX32, thinking of God leads to religious wars :) |
| 05:49.13 | IriX32 | not here |
| 05:50.00 | dli | also, God is evil and jealous, he punishes you, if you don't believe him, and only him |
| 05:50.13 | IriX32 | i'm told the secret is to learn to recognize thoughts that are not your |
| 05:50.25 | IriX32 | +s |
| 05:50.52 | IriX32 | well i see hellish high for you then |
| 05:51.49 | dli | IriX32, hehe, buddha says, if there's a hell, I should go there, before everyone else should |
| 06:00.48 | IriX32 | you should study Gods plan |
| 06:02.16 | dli | IriX32, no, I'm atheist :) but interested why people still killing each other in name of God |
| 06:03.28 | IriX32 | in name of God you say, they don't truly beleive in the diety then |
| 06:04.15 | IriX32 | the uso show is now over :) |
| 06:07.15 | dli | IriX32, just watched PBS show, "America at crossroad". Most muslim (on the show) are so scary to me. |
| 06:08.14 | IriX32 | muslims are people too, should not be afraid of people dli, learn their customs, traditions etc |
| 06:08.37 | dli | IriX32, the show reminds me, Taliban destroyed buddha statues in Bamiyan. No buddhist suicide bombers because of that |
| 06:09.38 | IriX32 | if people would communicate, rather than pontificate |
| 06:09.52 | IriX32 | such might not happen |
| 06:10.33 | dli | IriX32, you forgot native European born radicals |
| 06:11.19 | IriX32 | are you here to goad me or do you really want my help? |
| 06:12.24 | dli | IriX32, no, just thinking about the PBS show, maybe, it's biased |
| 07:17.57 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:53.39 | brlcad | dli: nice work on the ebuild |
| 07:54.15 | brlcad | the problem that it's going to probably run into is just the complications from using /usr/brlcad |
| 07:55.12 | brlcad | some of the core guys are not particularly fond of having another big top-level usr dir ala X11R6 |
| 07:56.34 | brlcad | and to not put brl-cad into /usr/brlcad, e.g. into /usr, means attempting to resolve or deal with about a dozen conflicts |
| 09:31.44 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 09:36.17 | clock_ | brlcad: did you say that pipe is defined by points on it's way and curvatures? |
| 09:53.33 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 11:17.39 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 11:17.39 | *** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia (n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 11:17.39 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 11:31.47 | *** join/#brlcad cad18 (n=5076b7b6@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:32.14 | cad18 | hi all |
| 11:32.40 | deltazap | clock_: yes, it is |
| 11:33.16 | deltazap | the first and last points radiuses don't matter, but everything else does |
| 11:33.25 | cad18 | is brlcad comparable to catia? |
| 11:34.47 | deltazap | cad18: from what i understand, catia is much more indepth into the whole lifecycle of an item. not only does it do modelling, but analysis and CAM, i believe |
| 11:35.01 | deltazap | but, it's also much more $$$ :P |
| 11:35.14 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (linkroot.sh Makefile.am): |
| 11:35.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: adding an initial script used to create or recreate the symbolic links in an |
| 11:35.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: installation root directory where multiple versions are retained. the script |
| 11:35.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: currently creates the links in a directory (e.g. /usr/brlcad) to point to some |
| 11:35.15 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: specified current stable version (e.g. /usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.0). more work |
| 11:35.17 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: needed to recreate/relink properly still, but it's a start. |
| 11:42.56 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: per e-mail initiated on their end, softpedia would like to be notified when we make releases of brl-cad. particularly for the mac builds, though there is also a linux entry now apparently too. |
| 12:37.34 | p0g0 | Hi-is there a simple list of the dependencies required for brlcad- ./configure reports no x11 or opengl, and the compile bombs with "error:x11/xlib.h" -this being an Xorg v11 system, I'd guess I'm hosed... clues? Manna from on high? |
| 12:38.25 | clock_ | deltazap: and how are the curvatures defined? Using one vector? |
| 12:39.25 | deltazap | nope, just a radius |
| 12:40.01 | joevalleyfield | p0g0, where is your x11/xlib.h |
| 12:40.20 | p0g0 | uhmm- with an Xorg setup, I doubt that I have one. |
| 12:40.29 | p0g0 | Xorg <>X11 |
| 12:40.36 | joevalleyfield | uh |
| 12:40.42 | joevalleyfield | i'm pretty sure you still have one |
| 12:40.44 | p0g0 | I could be very wrong tho |
| 12:40.59 | joevalleyfield | Xorg is just a fork of xfree86? |
| 12:41.03 | p0g0 | ok then I'll just need to locate it and get it into the path |
| 12:41.08 | joevalleyfield | everything is really the same |
| 12:41.15 | joevalleyfield | put it in some CPPFLAGS |
| 12:41.37 | joevalleyfield | CPPFLAGS='-I /path/to/X11dir/' |
| 12:41.59 | p0g0 | ok- then I'd guess all I'll need are the headers/source for Xorg... I'll sort that out |
| 12:42.12 | joevalleyfield | just headers |
| 12:42.27 | joevalleyfield | and libs |
| 12:42.37 | p0g0 | then I'd rerun ./configure to get rid of the no X11 , I'd guess |
| 12:42.45 | joevalleyfield | hopefully |
| 12:43.01 | p0g0 | Ok- I'll fool with that, thanks |
| 12:43.10 | joevalleyfield | np |
| 13:28.12 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:14.22 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4 tk/unix/tcl.m4): |
| 16:14.22 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: remove dependency on __private_extern__ when compiling on darwin |
| 16:14.22 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: don't hide module symbols on apple; they aren't hidden on other unix platforms |
| 17:22.57 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): |
| 17:26.20 | joevalleyfield | brlcad, the commit message for that was supposed to be remove dependency on -fpascal-strings when building for aqua |
| 17:30.07 | joevalleyfield | i imagine it's darn near impossible to hack it in |
| 18:02.29 | joevalleyfield | i modified the each of the log messages, maybe something more needs to be done to make the changelog happy? |
| 18:52.13 | ``Erik | Xorg is a fork of X11, usually installed to /usr/X11R6, though I like mine in /usr/Xorg |
| 18:52.22 | ``Erik | --with-x11=/usr/Xorg makes mine all peachy |
| 18:56.55 | p0g0 | ``Erik: tell me more about that-I'm trying to sort out the dependencies in an Xorg (X11R6) setup...I'm not even sure whether the headers I need are to be found in X11-common. I'd appreciate any datum offered. |
| 19:01.35 | ``Erik | for BRL-CAD? xorg-libraries should be enough |
| 19:02.27 | p0g0 | ``Erik: thanks |
| 19:03.55 | ``Erik | p0g0: which os are you using? |
| 19:04.28 | p0g0 | ``Erik: on this box, it's a debian offshoot of SID |
| 19:04.39 | ``Erik | hum, does X launch? can you use like gnome or kde and get a working desktop? |
| 19:05.27 | p0g0 | oh yeah- it's a happy box, kde, kernel 2.6.18 smp, intel p6 3Ghz... |
| 19:06.05 | ``Erik | ok, do you have the xlib dev package? like, um, /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ? |
| 19:06.35 | ``Erik | (which is what time asked in a case special way) |
| 19:06.47 | ``Erik | "special" heh... :D hockey helmet and water wings, yo |
| 19:07.23 | p0g0 | that's what I lack- I'd hoped to locate a dependency list, but so far I'm just chipping away missing lib by missing lib. |
| 19:07.44 | ``Erik | well, the dep list for BRL-CAD is kinda a non-static thing |
| 19:07.53 | p0g0 | fair enough |
| 19:08.04 | ``Erik | for what you want, you probably need the X dev package, the png dev package, ummm maybe tcl and tk 8.5 |
| 19:08.13 | p0g0 | I should be able to locate the -dev .deb |
| 19:08.24 | p0g0 | ooh thanks |
| 19:08.24 | ``Erik | (notice I'm saying dev package on all of those) |
| 19:08.37 | p0g0 | yes, I appreciate the meaning of that |
| 19:14.28 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4 tk/unix/tcl.m4): |
| 19:14.28 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: remove dependency on __private_extern__ when compiling on darwin |
| 19:14.29 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: usually MODULE_SCOPE is defined in tclInt.h. Apparently some OSX files |
| 19:14.29 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: don't include it so MODULE SCOPE must be defined as extern where it was |
| 19:14.29 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: previously defined as __private_extern__. |
| 19:41.05 | IriX32 | it says found x11 in /usr/x11r6 but then x11 is not functionally available |
| 19:41.18 | IriX32 | . |
| 19:41.46 | IriX32 | libs are in x11r6/lib |
| 19:41.52 | joevalleyfield | as always, look at the end of your config.log and see why the test program didn't run |
| 19:42.53 | IriX32 | urf ty |
| 19:44.37 | ``Erik | "A net is a series of holes joined together with string" |
| 19:45.22 | joevalleyfield | tubes |
| 19:45.47 | ``Erik | <-- meant an omfg real net, not a network |
| 19:46.09 | IriX32 | _XNewModifiermap <---- undefined reference |
| 19:46.28 | ``Erik | I guess you'll have to use the old modifier map :/ |
| 19:46.33 | IriX32 | heh |
| 19:46.46 | IriX32 | who crafted the new :P |
| 19:46.53 | ``Erik | or search your libraries to see which one defines the symbol |
| 19:47.21 | IriX32 | man x is fraught :P |
| 19:48.08 | IriX32 | suppose i could hard code it on ... but... that wouldn't be in keeping with the spirit of things now would it |
| 19:48.40 | IriX32 | i know i have x i know it finds it. ill set libs myself |
| 19:49.38 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:50.35 | joevalleyfield | that should work, the source code doesn't appear to rely on XNewModifiermap |
| 19:50.52 | IriX32 | ty |
| 19:52.13 | IriX32 | your fast joevalleyfield, thanks |
| 19:52.50 | joevalleyfield | grep is everyone's friend |
| 19:52.56 | IriX32 | heh true |
| 20:00.53 | IriX32 | jvf trying something |
| 20:06.08 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 20:06.55 | IriX32 | never mind will only work if X is up :) |
| 20:09.54 | IriX32 | so... x11_works=yes to the rescue :) |
| 20:12.00 | IriX32 | lets see if libs get set right |
| 20:19.20 | IriX32 | -L/usr/X11R6/lib :) |
| 20:29.43 | IriX32 | ty building |
| 20:35.35 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (get_outer_shell.cpp brep.cpp add_face.cpp): correct a typo in documentation |
| 20:36.21 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: correct a typo in documentation |
| 20:37.42 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Add initial (currently untested) support for trimming |
| 20:42.39 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos <--- promised you K-tank last night :) |
| 20:44.21 | b0ef | wasn't there an effort to move BRL-CAD to storing floats in double precision? |
| 20:53.12 | IriX32 | sphere flake |
| 20:57.03 | IriX32 | mmm i mentioned it... better deliver it :) |
| 21:07.32 | IriX32 | complex, very slow to appear |
| 21:29.47 | IriX32 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos sphere flake and rendering sphere flake |
| 21:31.04 | IriX32 | you're probably wondering what I'm doing messing around with 7.10 :) |
| 21:50.43 | IriX32 | same blog address , your way combined with my way :) |
| 21:53.42 | IriX32 | if i want a fbserv window i just type exec fbserv 2 /dev/X into the mged command window and ... |
| 22:16.54 | archivist | IriX32, test your link before you publish http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos I get an xml error |
| 22:18.29 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 22:23.38 | IriX32 | whoa sorry |
| 22:24.15 | IriX32 | just loaded what you typed, works here |
| 22:24.46 | IriX32 | having bwish issues right now tho |
| 22:26.20 | IriX32 | its there but it can't find go figure, tk8.5.a that is |
| 23:23.16 | brlcad | b0ef: erm.. for which file type? the .g files should be packed in double-precision (it's up to each primitive) |
| 23:23.37 | brlcad | the .asc file format is a bit different, limited only by snprintf settings |
| 23:36.23 | CIA-14 | libIRC: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/commitinfo: use the cvs_acls file to read the access rules in the avail file, thanks dtremenak |
| 23:40.05 | dli | brlcad, if we build /usr/, the problem is that some brlcad libraries, librt libbn, libz will be linked into many other packages. |
| 23:56.21 | IriX32 | dli so put it in /usr/local/brlcad (--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad on configure line) |
| 00:03.11 | IriX32 | if you're going to tie us to -ltcl8.5a ... why all those checks |
| 00:03.27 | IriX32 | err -ltcl8.5.a |
| 00:03.42 | brlcad | all what checks? |
| 00:04.10 | brlcad | "-ltcl8.5.a" should be bogus, if i'm not mistaken |
| 00:04.17 | IriX32 | for different versions of tcl and when it finds one it refuses it anyway |
| 00:04.28 | brlcad | either /path/to/libtcl8.5.a or -ltcl8.5 |
| 00:05.02 | IriX32 | mmm |
| 00:05.09 | IriX32 | either way |
| 00:05.11 | brlcad | it only checks for 8.5 and 8.6 |
| 00:05.22 | IriX32 | 8.4 too |
| 00:05.36 | brlcad | not in my configure.ac |
| 00:05.49 | IriX32 | ill recheck just a sec |
| 00:06.20 | brlcad | -ltcl is as close as it gets and that's a wildcard really |
| 00:07.38 | IriX32 | youre correct |
| 00:08.14 | IriX32 | still you give the option is it really neccessary if you're tied to 8.5a |
| 00:13.34 | brlcad | that sentence does not parse |
| 00:13.53 | IriX32 | heh just set the headers and libs and be done with it |
| 00:14.07 | IriX32 | you know youre going to build it |
| 00:14.14 | brlcad | not necessarily |
| 00:14.27 | brlcad | i actually build without it all the time |
| 00:14.28 | IriX32 | show me 8.6 :) |
| 00:14.44 | IriX32 | ahh to avoid recompiling it |
| 00:14.52 | IriX32 | i see |
| 00:14.59 | brlcad | some package management systems report 8.5 as 8.6 |
| 00:15.15 | IriX32 | tell them to fix their stuff |
| 00:15.25 | brlcad | it's not broken |
| 00:15.43 | IriX32 | reporting 8.5 as 8.6 in bot broken |
| 00:15.49 | IriX32 | err not |
| 00:19.15 | IriX32 | some systems report 7.10.0 as 7.1.0 ;) |
| 00:22.13 | *** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net) | |
| 00:33.10 | IriX32 | dli just tested it both tcl and tk honor the --prefix you set to in main configure |
| 00:53.22 | IriX32 | heh funniset thing i've ever seen you can set your --build switch to any valid sys type and it configures |
| 00:54.52 | bjorkBSD | deep nerdish. |
| 00:55.03 | bjorkBSD | no spica |
| 00:55.08 | IriX32 | radish actually ... spicy |
| 00:56.57 | bjorkBSD | heheh |
| 00:57.57 | IriX32 | you came in late examine http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (somebody got an xml error on it) |
| 00:58.49 | bjorkBSD | Sorry, we are unable to complete your task at this time. The Windows Live Spaces service is experiencing difficulties. Please try your task again later. |
| 00:59.01 | IriX32 | urf |
| 00:59.07 | IriX32 | ah well |
| 00:59.35 | bjorkBSD | what's live spaces n e who? |
| 00:59.48 | IriX32 | sorta a super blog |
| 01:00.04 | bjorkBSD | like yoohoo 360? |
| 01:00.18 | IriX32 | microsoft tied it to windows live messenger and an email account |
| 01:00.37 | IriX32 | yoohoo to u 2 :) |
| 01:00.57 | bjorkBSD | i see. |
| 01:01.10 | bjorkBSD | just like that yoohoo thing. |
| 01:01.22 | IriX32 | never tried that one |
| 01:02.16 | bjorkBSD | waste of time, i assure you. |
| 01:02.46 | IriX32 | heh i just wanted someplace to post output as opposed to johnny 5's input :) |
| 01:03.45 | IriX32 | its been saying 3.95 fps for an hour now |
| 01:16.22 | dli | IriX32, the configure options are mostly from a previous ebuild |
| 01:28.22 | deltazap | drinky :O |
| 01:29.27 | IriX32 | k drinky why is libbu make file looking for tcl in ../../src/other/unix ? |
| 01:29.51 | IriX32 | err +tcl |
| 01:33.57 | IriX32 | i don't know how to fix this in makefile |
| 01:41.07 | IriX32 | hardcoding the path for now |
| 01:41.32 | IriX32 | and taking a break :) |
| 01:44.50 | IriX32 | that blog has been updated this last shot took over an hour if anybody wants to see it |
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| 18:32.23 | IriX32 | mmmm why are we updating brlcad/libtk/tcl8.4 |
| 18:33.02 | IriX32 | err tk/tcl8.4 |
| 18:34.01 | IriX32 | doh goof so you have a choice :) |
| 18:41.39 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:45.14 | IriX32 | you know overlooking is such an easy thing.... i totally overlooked the fact that i have two updates going to the same source tree, am i farkled? |
| 18:45.53 | IriX32 | multi - tasking strikes again sigh :) |
| 18:46.40 | IriX32 | think i'll let both finish and see where I am |
| 18:58.36 | IriX32 | brlcad: you wanted me to work from cvs, I took you literally. |
| 19:04.28 | dli | IriX32, any answer to the tcl/tk doc Makefile problem |
| 19:05.07 | IriX32 | must needs be addresseed by a higher power, I don't speak make. |
| 19:06.36 | IriX32 | did you get libbu to make with that tcl or are you using system lib? |
| 19:07.32 | dli | IriX32, they simply make. no I can not use system libs |
| 19:07.45 | IriX32 | must be my system then |
| 19:08.45 | IriX32 | build issues, ah well... all's well that runs well |
| 19:19.06 | IriX32 | what's going on here, no X no GL, no Windows GL, there's no way thats configures fault |
| 19:29.56 | IriX32 | dli.... does it find a display manager on your system? |
| 19:30.58 | dli | IriX32, display manager? |
| 19:31.28 | IriX32 | x gl windows gl, does the summary say its building with any of these? |
| 19:36.38 | dli | IriX32, it finds x and gl |
| 19:37.35 | IriX32 | ty |
| 19:55.40 | dli | checking for X11 in /usr/X11R6... found |
| 19:56.02 | IriX32 | its the functionality test im failing |
| 19:58.03 | dli | http://pastebin.ca/451731 |
| 20:01.23 | IriX32 | i get that too, its proper there but when it checks to see if it works somethings funny |
| 20:02.18 | IriX32 | conftest.exe fails, with undefined functions |
| 20:09.54 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451745 <-- this part is giving me grief, undefined functions |
| 20:10.35 | IriX32 | header passes link fails |
| 20:19.15 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451751 < - grok all these but the link fails dli |
| 20:22.53 | IriX32 | found it thank you |
| 20:27.18 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451758 <--- changing it to this fixed it here dli |
| 20:46.06 | IriX32 | there's a good girl, have a byte :) |
| 21:12.14 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451830 <--- dli I smell good things happening :) |
| 21:18.02 | brlcad | IriX32: stop it, please .. we've had this discussion too many times -- next time you will have voice removed for a week |
| 21:18.40 | brlcad | your enthusiasm is appreciated, but you have to tame the chatter and non-stop dialog |
| 21:21.56 | brlcad | dli: I looked at your patch, but it doesn't seem to make any sense.. the change should result in the wrong paths (something like /usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.4/usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.4/file) |
| 21:26.23 | dli | brlcad, that's up to you guys to figure out |
| 21:27.35 | brlcad | wonder if it's related to portage repathing |
| 21:27.39 | brlcad | this was gentoo yes? |
| 21:29.23 | brlcad | dli: another thing you should be able to do is just make tcl/tk 8.5 a package dependency, in case there are/were patches needed to get tcl/tk to work |
| 21:33.38 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:33.38 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 21:33.38 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 21:36.37 | IriX32 | real question, can -DIF_X and -DIF_OGL co-exist? |
| 21:43.31 | poolio | IriX32: I don't see why not. |
| 21:43.57 | IriX32 | was wondering, somehow i have both set |
| 21:43.57 | IriX32 | . |
| 21:56.14 | poolio | It make sense, X is the windowing system, and OGL is just a specification |
| 21:56.26 | poolio | or "development architecture" i suppose |
| 22:00.40 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451871 <--- from makefile in src/fbserv ... look for -Lyes/lib |
| 22:00.56 | IriX32 | dm_libs |
| 22:04.32 | IriX32 | its in there more than once |
| 22:05.06 | IriX32 | X_LIBS too |
| 22:07.06 | brlcad | IriX32: yes, there will be an IF_something for each framebuffer interface |
| 22:07.25 | IriX32 | ty |
| 22:07.27 | brlcad | and a DM_something for each display manager (and the two have little to do with each other) |
| 22:07.49 | IriX32 | so i am busted here with both set i guess |
| 22:09.10 | brlcad | huh? |
| 22:09.28 | brlcad | one for *each* .. there's no problem having more than one |
| 22:09.44 | IriX32 | somehow ive got both opengl and X. |
| 22:09.52 | brlcad | so? |
| 22:10.13 | IriX32 | why the error then? |
| 22:11.18 | brlcad | i can't read your mind |
| 22:11.26 | brlcad | you've not demonstrated an error |
| 22:12.17 | IriX32 | the yes/lib in X_LIBS in makefile in src/fbserv my make dies with multiple undefies to x functions |
| 22:12.44 | IriX32 | ahh i get it sorry not to have explained the pastebin |
| 22:13.15 | brlcad | I shouldn't need a pastebin explanation.. you should paste the failure, not what you think is causing it |
| 22:13.28 | IriX32 | i did |
| 22:13.42 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451871 |
| 22:13.43 | brlcad | then it was lost in the 7 or so pastebins |
| 22:13.43 | dli | brlcad, I will show you the "make install " error message without the patch |
| 22:13.55 | IriX32 | there it is again |
| 22:14.11 | brlcad | that is exactly my point |
| 22:14.20 | brlcad | that pastebin doesn't show any error |
| 22:14.47 | IriX32 | DM_LIBS = ${top_builddir}/src/other/libpng/libpng.la -Lyes/lib |
| 22:16.25 | brlcad | i see the 'yes' on that line, and that's undoubtedly an issue somewhere, but again.. you've still not shown the build error |
| 22:17.05 | IriX32 | X_CFLAGS = -Iyes/include ill pastebin the error |
| 22:18.00 | brlcad | dli: thanks, that might help |
| 22:18.15 | brlcad | though it probably should be simply a dependency instead of building directly |
| 22:19.52 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451903 started with make in the fbserv dir |
| 22:21.45 | brlcad | which version is this? |
| 22:25.49 | brlcad | send me your configure.ac |
| 22:26.18 | IriX32 | this is 7.10 got my configure .ac from cvs |
| 22:27.15 | brlcad | send me your configure.ac |
| 22:27.35 | brlcad | glad to hear you're using cvs now |
| 22:27.58 | IriX32 | heh you turned me on to it, thanks |
| 22:28.14 | IriX32 | or should i thank you ;) |
| 22:29.27 | brlcad | run "cvs diff -u configure.ac" and pastebin the entire output |
| 22:33.02 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451931 remeber i dont know if this is proper i screwed it up, im new to cvs |
| 22:33.14 | IriX32 | err or screwed it up |
| 22:33.39 | brlcad | that's apparently not a CVS checkout |
| 22:33.45 | brlcad | or you're in the wrong dir |
| 22:33.54 | brlcad | is there a configure.ac file in that directory? |
| 22:34.20 | IriX32 | same dir i update from err i update from that but specify brlcad that why? |
| 22:34.47 | IriX32 | no output just returns |
| 22:35.06 | IriX32 | wnat it pastebinned? |
| 22:35.51 | IriX32 | http://www.pastebin.ca/451935 there you go |
| 22:36.09 | brlcad | "i update from that but specify brlcad that why?" <-- don't understand |
| 22:36.26 | brlcad | ah, so you were in the wrong dir |
| 22:36.47 | IriX32 | is that why i got an message saying no such file |
| 22:36.50 | IriX32 | yeah |
| 22:37.11 | IriX32 | i update the master work in another dir |
| 22:37.16 | brlcad | you specified configure.ac .. yet you were not in the directory that had configure.ac |
| 22:37.20 | IriX32 | but work in another dir |
| 22:37.22 | brlcad | so .. no such file |
| 22:37.29 | IriX32 | right |
| 22:37.54 | IriX32 | cp -r is my friend :) |
| 22:38.13 | brlcad | you can do the diff in either |
| 22:38.17 | brlcad | you were in neither |
| 22:39.10 | brlcad | what is your configure line |
| 22:40.48 | IriX32 | ./configure --with-x |
| 22:41.32 | brlcad | therein lies the problem |
| 22:41.43 | brlcad | why are you specifying --with-x ? |
| 22:42.01 | IriX32 | because thats what i have |
| 22:42.33 | brlcad | that's not what that option indicates |
| 22:43.02 | brlcad | if you have it and it works as expected, it will be detected |
| 22:43.44 | IriX32 | thought i had to specify and that ogl is the default |
| 22:44.06 | brlcad | we've had this discussion before |
| 22:44.12 | dli | brlcad, the make install error without the tcl-doc patch: http://pastebin.ca/451941 |
| 22:44.42 | IriX32 | oh man i honestly have a memory problem forgive me. |
| 22:44.46 | brlcad | IriX32: ogl will be the default unless you use --disable-opengl |
| 22:45.02 | IriX32 | ty |
| 22:45.28 | IriX32 | ill file that somewhere readily available like i did your cvs commands. |
| 22:47.48 | brlcad | the with options often require a path, and that's the case for that one |
| 22:48.55 | brlcad | regardless, they still do not generally turn functionality on -- it's used to specify *which* one you want to use, i.e. where is X11 installed if it wasn't a standard location |
| 22:49.39 | IriX32 | is standard so it should just detect it if i --disable-ogl correct? |
| 22:49.41 | brlcad | and apologies, not --disable-opengl, --without-opengl |
| 22:49.53 | IriX32 | thank you |
| 23:09.14 | poolio | is there a reason you dont want to use ogl? |
| 23:11.55 | bjorkBSD | he has a weirdo system. |
| 23:16.04 | IriX32 | very :) thanks all for putting up with it... and me. |
| 23:17.08 | brlcad | dli: looks like at least a trailing slash is missing |
| 23:17.46 | brlcad | e.g. /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcadTcl_Access.3 .. should probably be /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/Tcl_Access.3 or something similar |
| 23:19.14 | brlcad | still, though .. is there a reason to not make tcl/tk a dependency? the mods were made specifically to support that for gentoo and others |
| 23:28.10 | dli | brlcad, show me how to do that? --without-tcl --without-tk ? |
| 23:28.54 | brlcad | dli: it will autodetect and auto-disable if a suitable system version is found |
| 23:29.15 | brlcad | which means making it a dependency in portage land |
| 23:29.34 | brlcad | you can force it off with an option |
| 23:29.45 | brlcad | --disable-tcl-build and --disable-tk-build |
| 23:29.55 | brlcad | but really, if it's all set up right, you shouldn't need those |
| 23:30.11 | brlcad | they shouldn't hurt either way too |
| 23:32.31 | dli | brlcad, no, " --disable-tcl-build --disable-tk-build " checking for Tcl library functionality... no |
| 23:32.31 | dli | configure: libtcl was disabled, but no system Tcl library was found |
| 23:32.31 | dli | configure: WARNING: Restarting configure with additional flags |
| 23:34.33 | brlcad | no? no what? |
| 23:34.57 | brlcad | "no system Tcl library was found" is a problem |
| 23:35.10 | brlcad | if it's installed via a dependency, it shouldn't fail to find it |
| 23:36.25 | dli | brlcad, I don't understand "installed via a dependency", tcl8.4 tk8.4 are installed |
| 23:37.22 | brlcad | 8.4 are insufficient |
| 23:37.28 | brlcad | 8.5+ |
| 23:38.32 | dli | brlcad, 8.5 is not released |
| 23:41.30 | brlcad | dli: is there no package for it even in unstable? |
| 23:41.43 | dli | brlcad, no |
| 23:41.53 | brlcad | 8.5 is not stable, but it is released |
| 23:41.59 | dli | dev-lang/tcl |
| 23:42.02 | dli | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:42.27 | brlcad | there at 8.5a5 |
| 23:43.23 | brlcad | erm, I see a reference to an unstable 8.5 |
| 23:43.27 | dli | brlcad, http://www.tcl.tk/software/tcltk/ |
| 23:43.30 | brlcad | dev-lang/tk-8.5.0 |
| 23:45.16 | brlcad | i'm aware of it's unstable status, we upgraded in preparation for the forthcoming 8.6 and (more importantly) as a means to update the way we integrate their build system |
| 23:47.39 | dli | brlcad, even if you can make tcl/tk ebuilds for 8.5, those new tcl/tk libraries may also break many packages depends on them |
| 23:48.15 | brlcad | i wouldn't make them.. just seems like others may have already done so themselves in unstable |
| 23:49.01 | dli | brlcad, no, not even in layman from gentoo-overlays |
| 23:49.24 | brlcad | bizarre references then, hm |
| 23:51.31 | brlcad | dli: that is unfortunate then until 8.6 comes out or until further build changes are made I think.. |
| 23:54.12 | brlcad | dli: do you know if there are any patches being applied to 8.4? |
| 23:54.22 | brlcad | (in portage) |
| 23:56.06 | brlcad | i might be able to back-port changes to resupport 8.4 again, but I recall there being some outright interface incompatibilities when the upgrade was performed |
| 23:56.32 | dli | brlcad, epatch "${FILESDIR}"/${PN}-8.4.6-multilib.patch , epatch "${FILESDIR}"/tcl-configure-LANG.patch |
| 23:58.40 | dli | brlcad, tcl-8.4.6-multilib.patch , tcl-8.4.6-multilib.patch |
| 00:00.14 | dli | tcl-configure-LANG.patch , tcl-configure-LANG.patch |
| 00:00.19 | dli | http://pastebin.ca/452011 |
| 00:00.33 | brlcad | mm.. several patches |
| 00:01.33 | brlcad | though that configure one shouldn't be a concern |
| 00:02.27 | brlcad | what's the multilib one look like? |
| 00:02.38 | dli | http://pastebin.ca/452012 |
| 00:05.39 | dli | brlcad, and the ebuild: http://pastebin.ca/452014 |
| 00:09.47 | brlcad | hm, that second patch might be significant |
| 00:10.18 | brlcad | ah, never mind.. that's mac-specific |
| 00:11.19 | dli | brlcad, and the one line sed ? |
| 00:11.45 | brlcad | yeah, I just saw that.... |
| 00:12.11 | brlcad | that looks highly significant |
| 00:15.40 | brlcad | does your ebuild have that sed line? |
| 00:16.55 | dli | brlcad, I can add the line, (after autogen.sh?) |
| 00:17.37 | brlcad | after configure |
| 00:17.47 | brlcad | that use you pasted is before install |
| 00:18.23 | brlcad | hrm.. actually it's after install.. |
| 00:18.29 | brlcad | never mind |
| 00:19.34 | brlcad | they did, however, define INSTALL_ROOT and MAN_INSTALL_DIR |
| 00:21.30 | brlcad | dli: I think what will probably work best is if we just make the mods that will let an installed 8.4 system library work |
| 00:22.12 | dli | brlcad, still need to work out librt, libbn, libz, etc |
| 00:22.21 | brlcad | otherwise I'd be making all sorts of guesses as to what tcl needs to build correctly under a portage setup |
| 00:24.45 | dli | brlcad, I agree, since gentoo builds packages in sandbox |
| 00:28.33 | brlcad | do you have a list of the namespace conflicts? |
| 00:28.44 | brlcad | libraries/binaries that conflict |
| 00:29.20 | dli | http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=109012 |
| 00:32.03 | brlcad | how's that list generated? |
| 00:35.16 | dli | brlcad, " emerge brlcad; emerge -C brlcad; revdep-rebuild -p ", install brlcad (in /usr/ ), remove brlcad, and find broken dynamic links |
| 00:36.15 | brlcad | libregex, libz, libpng, and libtermlib are all configurable options |
| 00:36.19 | dli | brlcad, and those broken links can not be solved by stand gentoo script revdep-rebuild |
| 00:36.35 | brlcad | it would be good to know why they didn't auto-detect |
| 00:37.03 | dli | brlcad, also, tcl/tk, which can be easily fixed by reinstalling tcl/tk |
| 00:37.11 | brlcad | libbu, libbn, librt on the other hand.. are more problematic |
| 00:37.27 | dli | brlcad, you want me post the config.log file? |
| 00:37.30 | brlcad | our libraries are core functionality, long predating those you have installed |
| 00:37.34 | brlcad | sure, that'd help |
| 00:37.38 | brlcad | e-mail it |
| 00:38.39 | brlcad | the entire actual output from configure would help too |
| 00:44.30 | dli | I will have to rerun emerge to get that |
| 00:45.41 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: include the new cpp brep files at least in the dist |
| 01:01.00 | dli | 200KB |
| 01:01.05 | dli | where do I email to? |
| 01:04.25 | dli | brlcad, sent |
| 02:06.57 | bjorkBSD | c'mon brlcad, we all wanna send you some good spam! |
| 02:06.59 | bjorkBSD | <PROTECTED> |
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| 04:27.44 | IriX64 | make distclean |
| 04:27.55 | IriX64 | sorry wrong window |
| 04:38.19 | IriX64 | sorry again, this channel doesn't do windows :) |
| 04:38.26 | bjorkBSD | it does. |
| 04:38.34 | IriX64 | really? |
| 04:38.37 | bjorkBSD | but reluctantly. |
| 04:38.39 | bjorkBSD | yeah, through you. |
| 04:39.02 | IriX64 | heh mea culpa mea culpa, mea maxima culpa :)_ |
| 04:39.21 | bjorkBSD | good. now are you going to install a unix system or what? :D |
| 04:39.42 | IriX64 | thinking of archlinux, good/poor choice? |
| 04:39.56 | bjorkBSD | never used it. |
| 04:40.02 | bjorkBSD | try it and see. |
| 04:40.31 | IriX64 | have to scrape up new hardware first, i'm *not going to scrap what ive got. |
| 04:40.57 | IriX64 | good idea though i'll be able to test my own stuff. |
| 04:42.42 | IriX64 | that make bench is rather... interesting. |
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| 19:39.10 | IriX32 | old work on the IriX32 blog :) |
| 19:49.29 | IriX32 | if i use -march=i386 and -mtune=i386, should be runnable on most processors true or false |
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| 21:40.47 | IriX32 | make -i |
| 21:40.52 | IriX32 | sorry |
| 23:15.54 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add the list of missing manual pages that jra generated a few years ago -- undoubtedly out of date, but it's a start |
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| 00:22.47 | ``Erik | I hate to say it |
| 00:23.15 | ``Erik | but things like that make me think that kevin braunsdorf (ksb@purdue.edu) may've had a bit of a point with his genration utility :( |
| 00:27.08 | brlcad | genration utility? |
| 01:00.25 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/453474 <--- this is in tk configure but tcl does it too |
| 01:03.06 | brlcad | any warnings from tcl and/or tk are not our concern |
| 01:03.15 | brlcad | we just run what they provide |
| 01:03.24 | IriX64 | whup sorry then |
| 01:03.49 | IriX64 | problem is your stuff depends on it |
| 01:05.11 | brlcad | so report the issue to the tcl folks |
| 01:05.29 | brlcad | they'll probably tell you it's just a warning and wonder wth you're worrying about it |
| 01:05.38 | IriX64 | they'd laugh at my system |
| 01:06.06 | IriX64 | but as you say just a warning |
| 01:13.00 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/TODO: updated missing manual pages list |
| 01:15.33 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:20.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 01:20.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: probably don't need to worry about the scripts that retain a script suffix as |
| 01:20.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: they're generally utility scripts that aren't as critical. anything that's |
| 01:20.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: going to be kept long term should probably drop the suffix on install (like |
| 01:20.51 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: archer, benchmark, brlman, etc) |
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| 12:16.14 | ``Erik | brlcad: "mkcmd", second thing on http://www.npcguild.org/software/pundits/ |
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| 13:23.38 | joevalleyfield | beware the nuke plant |
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| 13:30.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/ (22 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 13:30.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: preliminary support for unaccelerated mgen on aqua through dm-tk |
| 13:30.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: configure.ac: |
| 13:30.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: - use two levels of expansion for BRLCAD_DATA |
| 13:30.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: - enable_aqua configure option |
| 13:30.58 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: - move X11 ac_ macro tests from argument check section |
| 13:31.00 | CIA-14 | BRL-CAD: - rely on AC_PATH_XTRA to figure out most of what we need to know about |
| 14:40.04 | brlcad | heh "In fact it might be bad. I wouldn't recommend that you download it or run any part of it. Just read it." |
| 14:40.59 | joevalleyfield | sounds like a certain opengl tutorial |
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| 15:37.23 | ``Erik | certain ogl tutorial? nehe isn't even worth reading, it's as damaging to ogl programming as basic is to programming in general O.o *duck* |
| 15:38.02 | joevalleyfield | and he readily admits it |
| 15:40.53 | ``Erik | well, he admits that he isn't a guru |
| 15:41.31 | ``Erik | uhhh, there's history there. the #opengl channel on efnet and nehe have... butted heads. and when he stole brinks tga loading code (verbatim) and claimed he wrote it, wooo, we got spun up :) |
| 15:41.42 | ``Erik | he closed his site for a few weeks after that, but came back |
| 15:44.16 | joevalleyfield | interesting |
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| 18:17.20 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/454580 <--- could use some help here on my system "x" fails the test. |
| 19:33.05 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos <--- new wall candy, finally got it going. |
| 19:38.09 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work is easier |
| 19:45.44 | IriX64 | graphics is graphics, back to 7.10.1. |
| 19:49.49 | IriX64 | mc |
| 19:49.56 | IriX64 | your pardon. |
| 19:53.08 | brlcad | need to see why it failed, not snippets from configure.ac |
| 19:53.20 | brlcad | look in config.log, find the X11 test that failed |
| 19:53.49 | brlcad | you can look for the AC_MSG_CHECKING statements in the config.log to find things |
| 19:53.55 | IriX64 | already fixed thankyou. |
| 19:54.16 | brlcad | and how was it fixed? |
| 19:54.39 | IriX64 | i patched it. |
| 19:54.49 | brlcad | patched what? |
| 19:55.01 | IriX64 | that prefix thing. |
| 19:55.24 | brlcad | do you not remember what was said just two days ago? |
| 19:55.34 | brlcad | "--with-x11" is wrong |
| 19:55.48 | IriX64 | actually i don't i was just looking for help. |
| 19:56.07 | IriX64 | X is all i have |
| 19:56.08 | IriX64 | . |
| 19:56.09 | brlcad | i'm trying to help, but you're bringing up the exact same issue |
| 19:56.27 | brlcad | and i told you what to do about it already |
| 19:56.46 | IriX64 | leaving ---with-x out is no solution |
| 19:56.51 | IriX64 | err -- |
| 19:57.28 | brlcad | adding it isn't a solution either |
| 19:57.45 | brlcad | it's only if it's no that it'll turn it off, and it is not no by default |
| 19:58.21 | IriX64 | but i'm *trying to get an X11 build going here |
| 19:58.28 | brlcad | i understand that |
| 19:58.38 | brlcad | using --with-x11 doesn't help you AT ALL towards that goal |
| 19:58.47 | brlcad | it actually just makes it worse |
| 19:58.55 | brlcad | because that's not how that option is supposed to be used |
| 19:59.02 | brlcad | it's supposed to be a path |
| 19:59.07 | brlcad | it's not an on/off option |
| 20:01.07 | IriX64 | noted |
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| 20:19.54 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work |
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| 20:27.35 | IriX64 | lets say i've done some work on for instance, mged.tcl and you've done a commit of the same file after i've done my work, what happens on a cvs update? |
| 20:29.10 | joevalleyfield | it helps you merge |
| 20:29.31 | IriX64 | really , no need to save and hack? |
| 20:29.38 | joevalleyfield | no |
| 20:29.49 | joevalleyfield | if you modified the same lines as the committer, |
| 20:30.04 | joevalleyfield | there will be a "conflict" for you to resolve |
| 20:30.13 | IriX64 | noted and thanks |
| 20:30.36 | joevalleyfield | your modifications will still be in the file though-- it won't delete your stuff |
| 20:31.06 | IriX64 | thanks. |
| 20:31.41 | ``Erik | 'cept hte modifications will be, um, modified :D |
| 20:31.45 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:32.02 | ``Erik | cvs is pretty non-destructive, even if you tell it to be destructive (like the AC flags), it'll save the "local" copy to .#file.revision |
| 20:32.30 | IriX64 | hope my client is up to snuff |
| 20:32.44 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:33.01 | ``Erik | which are you using? the cygwin cvs is the same one we all use on unix |
| 20:33.08 | ``Erik | wincvs mgiht be different |
| 20:33.09 | IriX64 | thats it |
| 20:33.17 | IriX64 | no the cyg one |
| 20:33.25 | IriX64 | is being used here |
| 20:33.32 | ``Erik | then it's up to snuff. It's the benchmark all others strive to be. :) |
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| 20:41.20 | IriX64 | question: I made some mods to the cygwin dll's to get this to run with Xming and Xwin32, and it works for winaxepro too, trying to be universal here, who elses windows xserver should i test with? |
| 21:02.36 | IriX64 | forgive me, forgot what channel i'm in :) |
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| 22:28.31 | IriX64 | missed the answer to my question, any decent gnu or free xserver for windows platforms out there? |
| 22:43.57 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work |
| 22:44.03 | IriX64 | this is with xming |
| 22:44.15 | IriX64 | thinking of putting it in the package |
| 22:45.06 | IriX64 | exec fbserv 2 /dev/X also works. |
| 22:46.09 | IriX64 | that version 9.9.9 was just a test. |
| 22:52.46 | IriX64 | oh joy i now have three frame buffers active. |
| 22:54.13 | IriX64 | I think XMing is going to be it, I like their price. |
| 23:26.19 | IriX64 | if you start a console session in windows land, and type path=c:\usr\brlcad, thats all that's needed (and you have to have brought up X too though), starting it from the desktop requires the path be set properly in system land sigh. |
| 23:26.46 | IriX64 | err brlcad\bin |
| 23:27.38 | IriX64 | dopped the dll's in bin, works for me. |
| 23:27.50 | IriX64 | dropped too |
| 23:36.54 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work (Both frame buffers active) |
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| 17:36.37 | IriX64 | joevalleyfield, you said cvs warns me about conflicts in files, does it mark them in anyway? |
| 17:39.33 | IriX64 | ah I see, thank you and never mind. |
| 17:53.56 | IriX64 | yours is superior, much thanks. |
| 18:02.05 | IriX64 | I used --enable-everything and it died trying to configure enigma with a can't find ./config.sub. |
| 18:03.07 | IriX64 | there is no config.sub in enigma. |
| 18:04.02 | IriX64 | nebver mind i know what it is. |
| 18:06.54 | IriX64 | your X detection is superior to mine thank you for putting it on cvs. |
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| 19:05.35 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/456266 |
| 19:06.29 | IriX64 | line 271 sorry i ommited that |
| 19:08.44 | IriX64 | should be fbinterp sorry |
| 19:14.49 | IriX64 | check tkimg.h its defined properly |
| 19:15.27 | IriX64 | in src/other/tkimg/base |
| 19:18.32 | IriX64 | oh man i get it. |
| 19:23.41 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/456301 <--- this patch fixes it here |
| 19:26.56 | smallfoot- | you talk alot |
| 19:26.56 | smallfoot- | but only you talk lol |
| 19:41.13 | IriX64 | i got a reprimand for chatting too much though :) |
| 19:48.27 | IriX64 | say any chance the windows binaries will be update too? |
| 19:48.34 | IriX64 | updated |
| 20:23.21 | smallfoot- | i hope so |
| 20:23.26 | smallfoot- | i made the NSIS installer |
| 20:23.33 | smallfoot- | now someone needs compile 10.2 |
| 20:23.36 | smallfoot- | err, 7.10 |
| 20:23.45 | smallfoot- | so we can release it |
| 20:32.55 | IriX64 | heh so compile it :) |
| 20:33.42 | IriX64 | you mean a windoees compile of course. |
| 20:33.53 | IriX64 | errr windows |
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| 02:48.54 | tars | hello |
| 02:49.51 | tars | i'm new to solid modeling and my school provides copies of Solid Edge V11 to students... |
| 02:50.06 | tars | ...I tried to install it, but it won't install under Vista... |
| 02:50.30 | tars | ...so I was looking for alternatives and found out about BRL-CAD... |
| 02:50.52 | tars | I have two questions: |
| 02:51.27 | tars | 1) does anyone know of an IRC channel for Solid Edge users |
| 02:52.21 | tars | and 2) Would someone recommend a set of BRL-CAD tutorials for a new user to start from? |
| 03:02.30 | deltazap | tars: Volume II - Intro to MGED is the only place to start :) |
| 03:03.55 | tars | cool. that's linked from the BRL-CAD homepage, right? |
| 03:05.29 | tars | oh, I found it there. |
| 03:05.49 | tars | thanks for the tip =) |
| 03:11.58 | deltazap | yup yup |
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| 03:40.01 | IriX64 | joevalleyfield, an attempt at that build we were talking about, trying to transfer it now. |
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| 03:58.05 | dli | ../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `tk_close_existing' |
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| 18:31.25 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (nmain.cpp n_iges.hpp n_iges.cpp): |
| 18:31.25 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Initial work on new IGES converter to support opennurbs breps. Old converter is |
| 18:31.25 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: quite intertwined with existing BRL-CAD NMG/NURBS code... seemed a bit cleaner |
| 18:31.25 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: to refactor things somewhat. Currently reads start, global and directory |
| 18:31.26 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: sections correctly. Just started work on BREP entity parsing. |
| 18:32.31 | clock_ | I have a working program to create allen bolts with a real thread :) |
| 18:32.39 | clock_ | You say allenbolt M6x50 and it does the job :) |
| 18:32.47 | clock_ | It's like shopping in a store ;-) |
| 18:32.54 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: Added compilation support for new IGES converter. May have bugs when opennurbs is not enabled (still need to test). |
| 18:32.58 | clock_ | Now I am writing a generic program that will also make hex heads |
| 18:45.30 | smallfoot- | hex heads? |
| 18:59.23 | ``Erik | awesome |
| 19:14.02 | clock_ | hex heads = the head has 6 sides |
| 19:51.12 | ``Erik | <-- thinks of hex heads as allen wrench style... :/ the normal "outer" hex shape is just a "regular bolt head" :/ |
| 19:53.27 | archivist | dems socket heads |
| 20:07.33 | ``Erik | <interviewee> what do you like most about working here? <reluctant group interviewer> pants-free fridays |
| 20:08.48 | archivist | specially on da girlz |
| 20:09.00 | archivist | or off the girlz |
| 20:10.08 | ``Erik | http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Tales_from_the_Interview_0x3a__A_Perfect_Ten!.aspx |
| 20:15.16 | archivist | hehe good one |
| 20:27.41 | smallfoot- | nice article |
| 21:17.38 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli_@riz-sage.uchicago.edu) | |
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| 22:23.38 | joevalleyfield | names |
| 22:24.54 | smallfoot- | /names |
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| 22:25.13 | joevalleyfield | yeah, i'm dumb |
| 22:25.31 | smallfoot- | wow, i typed that |
| 22:25.33 | smallfoot- | and i got disconnected |
| 22:25.34 | smallfoot- | bad idea lol |
| 22:25.56 | joevalleyfield | :) strange |
| 22:26.02 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 22:26.08 | smallfoot- | the IRCd flooded me |
| 22:26.09 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 22:33.28 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/include/dm-ogl.h: ogl types are used, gl should be included in this header. |
| 22:41.04 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm_obj.c libfb/tcl.c): tk_close_existing doesn't exist yet; temporarily remove references thereto. |
| 22:50.42 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:51.37 | ``Erik | ummmm, /names shows everyone on the network, right? /names #brlcad is how to NOT get flooded off? |
| 22:52.09 | ``Erik | /who is safe... (at least on bx, yo) |
| 22:53.31 | joevalleyfield | irssi \/names was good for the channel |
| 22:57.02 | ``Erik | hum, irssi must fake it to avoid the oops of actually complying with rfc1459 on a nontrivial network |
| 22:57.23 | joevalleyfield | it must |
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| 15:33.55 | smallfoot- | Linux Kernel 2.6.21 Released |
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| 18:19.44 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/459804 <--- I'm having trouble at runtime with a libbn magic number check, If I do this for now, am i correct in assuming all the magic number check macros that depend on these will still do their job of initializing whatever but pass the number check? |
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| 19:03.03 | IriX64 | thinking of using if!(_ptr) bu_bomb; |
| 19:03.21 | IriX64 | err if(!_ptr) |
| 19:05.22 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-5.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:06.22 | clock_ | I would use pastebin but pastebin fails with the following error: |
| 19:06.32 | clock_ | Query failure: Can't open file: 'pastebin.MYI'. (errno: 145) insert into pastebin (poster, domain, posted, format, code, parent_pid, expires,expiry_flag) values ('clock', '', now(), 'text', 'tgc\(thread_cyl6_0\.541_0\.0416666666667\.s\)\: 1 intersects \!\= \{0,2,4\}\r\n ray\: pt \= \(33\.1649 22\.7157 38\.5456\), dir \= \(-0\.000371362 0\.928038 0\.372486\)\r\n 1\.99\r\ntgc\(thread_cyl5_0\.4328_0\.0333333333333\.s\)\: 1 intersects \!\= \{0,2,4 |
| 19:06.57 | clock_ | (Note: in case pastebin doesn't work, use pastebin to paste the lenghty error message instead of flooding the IRC channel) |
| 19:07.02 | clock_ | So what I wanted to paste: |
| 19:07.14 | clock_ | is it normal when I get the following messages when running rt? |
| 19:07.25 | clock_ | tgc(thread_cyl6_0.541_0.0416666666667.s): 1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (33.1649 22.7157 38.5456), dir = (-0.000371362 0.928038 0.372486) 1.99 |
| 19:07.28 | clock_ | tgc(thread_cyl5_0.4328_0.0333333333333.s): 1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (46.7653 22.0771 52.6023), dir = (-0.000470877 0.829158 0.559014) 1.99 |
| 19:07.31 | clock_ | tgc(thread_cyl4_0.3787_0.0291666666667.s): 1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (49.016 20.3626 59.9144), dir = (-0.000315285 0.246781 -0.969071) -1.96664 |
| 19:07.34 | clock_ | tgc(thread_cyl4_0.3787_0.0291666666667.s): 1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (49.016 20.3626 59.9144), dir = (-0.000315285 0.246781 -0.969071) |
| 19:08.42 | clock_ | Actually I used pastebin to paste the pastebin error message and got the following pastebin error message: Query failure: Can't open file: 'pastebin.MYI'. (errno: 145) insert into pastebin (poster, domain, posted, format, code, parent_pid, expires,expiry_flag) values ('clock', '', now(), 'text', 'Query failure\: Can\'t open file\: \'pastebin\.MYI\'\. \(errno\: 145\) insert into pastebin \(poster, domain, posted, format, code, parent_pid, expir |
| 19:08.49 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 19:08.57 | clock_ | Looks like pastebin is really a useful tool to prevent channel floods ;-) |
| 19:35.48 | clock_ | rtweight seems to end up in an endless loop! |
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| 19:58.01 | IriX64 | rttherm is the one giving me grief/ |
| 19:58.27 | IriX64 | . |
| 19:59.55 | clock_ | And I found apparent database corruption in 7.8.4 |
| 20:01.45 | smallfoot- | :/ |
| 20:02.36 | clock_ | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1708349&group_id=105292&atid=640802 |
| 20:02.52 | clock_ | It's perfectly repeatable, at least in my case :) |
| 20:03.37 | clock_ | I made a file with 10 cap screws. |
| 20:03.52 | clock_ | rtweight seems to hang on it, g-dxf runs excessively long so I had to terminate it |
| 20:04.42 | clock_ | What does the message "tgc(thread_cyl4_0.3787_0.0291666666667.s): 1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (49.016 20.3626 59.9144), dir = (-0.0003152850.246781 -0.969071)", generated by rt on this file, indicate? |
| 20:08.21 | IriX64 | a point was found with negative directions |
| 20:08.52 | IriX64 | don't mknow much about that sort of thing though :) |
| 20:10.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/459997 <--- for my purposes this works, i did the same to the tcl magic check too. |
| 20:18.14 | clock_ | Well I can use the brl-cad bugreporting mechanism that allows attachments and largish pastes |
| 20:18.14 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.23) | |
| 20:18.14 | IriX64 | don't worry, i won't pastebin the stack dumps :) |
| 20:31.41 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (BrepHandler.cpp nmain.cpp n_iges.hpp n_iges.cpp): Started work on brep handling infrastructure. will provide user-implemented callbacks for custom application behavior. |
| 20:35.59 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: Add brephandler source file to iges source list |
| 21:16.44 | ``Erik | and the tgc error says the ray found one intersection on the way, when all rays should have an even number of intersections (each 'in' should have a paired 'out') |
| 21:18.01 | clock_ | ;-) |
| 21:18.32 | clock_ | is valid maybe in real arithmetic, but not in floating point, where even a==a is not true |
| 21:19.07 | clock_ | anyway is the message a bug or should be ignored? |
| 21:19.10 | ``Erik | (and a ray can have negative direction, ain't nothing wrong with that... I'd be more concerned that in the paste, the dir seems to be composed of two numbers, not 3) |
| 21:19.42 | ``Erik | it indicates a bug, is it consistently reproducable on 7.10.0 or HEAD? |
| 21:19.55 | clock_ | I didn't succeed compiline 7.10.0 |
| 21:20.03 | ``Erik | on openbsd? |
| 21:20.06 | clock_ | yes |
| 21:20.13 | clock_ | requires some libwhatever |
| 21:20.20 | clock_ | didn't require before |
| 21:20.31 | clock_ | But I actually didn't read the README |
| 21:20.35 | clock_ | just ./configure make |
| 21:20.46 | clock_ | may be my fault then ;-) |
| 21:21.22 | ``Erik | um, no new dependancies have been added... but it may be doing something gooby with installed tcl |
| 21:21.49 | clock_ | im gonna sleep |
| 21:21.50 | clock_ | good night |
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| 21:47.57 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177878729.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:54.02 | dli | IriX64, does cvs still build? |
| 21:54.56 | IriX64 | not for me |
| 21:54.58 | IriX64 | . |
| 23:17.49 | ``Erik | http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedbackMemberLeft&memberid=tryork5ifp&items=-1&item=-1&de=off |
| 23:38.10 | smallfoot- | o9o |
| 23:38.12 | smallfoot- | llol |
| 23:38.14 | smallfoot- | thats strange |
| 23:42.34 | smallfoot- | how that happen? |
| 00:19.38 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871943.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:23.38 | IriX64 | winaxepro is nice you get to see all the pretty colors in havoc and friends :) |
| 00:35.50 | IriX64 | Labf are the makers if anyone cares, says it'll run on Linux too. |
| 01:02.08 | IriX64 | err got that wrong, linux stuff on your windows box, is that right? |
| 01:58.02 | IriX64 | wy does this happen ----> http://www.pastebin.ca/460460 |
| 01:58.09 | IriX64 | why too. |
| 02:01.37 | Twingy | rm -rf autom4te.cache |
| 02:02.33 | IriX64 | ty |
| 02:02.55 | bjorkBSD | IriX64, is your system always compiling? |
| 02:03.06 | bjorkBSD | it would be done by now even on a 386 :P |
| 02:03.06 | IriX64 | 90% of the time:) |
| 02:03.11 | bjorkBSD | how comes? |
| 02:03.27 | IriX64 | different things go on all at the same time. |
| 02:04.47 | IriX64 | anything I give you should be considered "produced by beta code" |
| 02:05.41 | bjorkBSD | ah so you're 'fixing' it? :) |
| 02:05.57 | IriX64 | truth bells ring :) |
| 02:09.19 | IriX64 | twingy, doesn't make distclean remove that? |
| 02:16.10 | IriX64 | this happens on a ./autogen.sh --verbose ---- > http://www.pastebin.ca/460476 |
| 02:18.19 | Twingy | dunno |
| 02:18.40 | IriX64 | me either.. can't be important ;) |
| 02:19.59 | Twingy | gonna make me some circuit boards |
| 02:20.26 | IriX64 | all right a silk screener :) |
| 02:20.39 | Twingy | silk screener would be easy |
| 02:20.49 | IriX64 | heh what etch pen then? |
| 02:20.52 | Twingy | just put in a paint marker |
| 02:20.59 | Twingy | 1/16" tip |
| 02:21.09 | IriX64 | chisel of course |
| 02:21.40 | Twingy | or cut a stencil |
| 02:21.49 | IriX64 | cookie cutter |
| 02:21.50 | Twingy | but won't be aligned perfectly |
| 02:21.57 | IriX64 | or at all |
| 02:22.10 | IriX64 | mirror image is fun too |
| 02:22.27 | Twingy | pcb takes care of all that |
| 02:22.46 | IriX64 | what do you use for laying out the board, brlcad? |
| 02:22.52 | Twingy | gcam will take pcb gerber and allow you to position then you can instruct the machine to cut out the board on pass #3 |
| 02:22.57 | Twingy | no, pcb |
| 02:23.20 | IriX64 | never heard of it but then i haven't played with such in a decade |
| 02:23.34 | Twingy | great little program for making double sided pcb's |
| 02:23.42 | IriX64 | sweet |
| 02:23.54 | Twingy | set one side to ground and other side for power and signal |
| 02:24.05 | IriX64 | multilayer? |
| 02:24.11 | Twingy | then solder paste and a cheap $30 electric grill |
| 02:24.21 | Twingy | multilayer yes, but you can't mill that |
| 02:24.30 | IriX64 | bang you're producing |
| 02:24.34 | Twingy | you'd have to epoxy them together |
| 02:24.48 | IriX64 | guy i know used to send his away to get done |
| 02:24.59 | Twingy | I could probly do 2-layer without a problem |
| 02:25.09 | Twingy | beyond that I think I would just have it manuf |
| 02:25.23 | IriX64 | that program do auto-route? |
| 02:25.39 | Twingy | rats nest stuff |
| 02:25.44 | Twingy | not as good as eagle |
| 02:25.47 | Twingy | but it's free |
| 02:25.52 | IriX64 | meaning some hands on? |
| 02:25.59 | Twingy | good for laying out small 8-bit MCU stuff |
| 02:26.06 | IriX64 | got it |
| 02:26.21 | Twingy | most stuff I do is < 100 traces |
| 02:26.36 | Twingy | one I did last night is ~40 |
| 02:26.40 | IriX64 | what are you building? |
| 02:26.48 | Twingy | work stuff |
| 02:27.12 | IriX64 | if it goes wrong put it in the forge, get your copper back:) |
| 02:27.38 | Twingy | I used to make these with ferric chloride etching |
| 02:27.45 | Twingy | that was just a pain |
| 02:27.56 | IriX64 | too much washing? |
| 02:27.57 | Twingy | I still have a liter of it in the garage |
| 02:28.01 | Twingy | it's toxic! |
| 02:28.09 | Twingy | has a huge jolly rogers symbol on it |
| 02:28.15 | IriX64 | heh donate it to someone :) |
| 02:28.18 | Twingy | it'll eat a penny in minute |
| 02:28.26 | Twingy | fun stuff |
| 02:29.01 | Twingy | UV and FeCl etching is waste of time |
| 02:29.10 | IriX64 | toululene for cleanup? |
| 02:29.17 | Twingy | orange peals |
| 02:29.29 | Twingy | or lemon |
| 02:29.35 | IriX64 | citric |
| 02:29.38 | Twingy | jes |
| 02:30.21 | Twingy | when you are doing traces < 20mil it's impossible |
| 02:30.37 | Twingy | UV can do 10mil sorta |
| 02:32.05 | IriX64 | outta my realm now |
| 02:33.20 | Twingy | I'll probly be working on gerber stuff all weekend |
| 02:33.33 | IriX64 | gerber? |
| 02:33.39 | Twingy | RS274 |
| 02:33.47 | Twingy | photoplotting format for PCB's |
| 02:33.57 | Twingy | just need to make a sexy photoplotter->MCB algorithm |
| 02:33.57 | IriX64 | not familiar with that standard |
| 02:34.22 | IriX64 | heh tie her in colors |
| 02:35.01 | IriX64 | done anymore work on the forge? |
| 02:36.46 | IriX64 | back to work |
| 02:39.43 | Twingy | I made a new one |
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| 02:39.52 | Twingy | far more efficient than last one |
| 02:40.35 | Twingy | I need to put a piece in an cut the rocket motor out |
| 02:40.45 | Twingy | need to finish gerber first |
| 02:40.55 | Twingy | rocket will need electronics |
| 02:40.59 | bjorkBSD | how expensive was it, Twingy? |
| 02:41.04 | Twingy | wsa what? |
| 02:41.10 | bjorkBSD | new forge. |
| 02:41.20 | Twingy | heh, it's a bucket and a piece of threaded rod |
| 02:41.39 | Twingy | so like $2.50 maybe ? |
| 02:41.57 | Twingy | 30%-40% more energy efficient than last one |
| 02:42.43 | bjorkBSD | damn! |
| 02:42.46 | bjorkBSD | any pix? |
| 02:43.27 | dli | cvs building fails |
| 02:43.37 | Twingy | picture an upside down bucket with a rod out the top with various slits and cuts from a bandsaw |
| 02:44.06 | bjorkBSD | cool :) |
| 02:44.29 | bjorkBSD | your own invention or a popular idea i've not come across yet. |
| 02:44.53 | Twingy | my idea cause I'm poor |
| 02:44.57 | Twingy | and I had a bucket |
| 02:45.01 | Twingy | and a piece of rod |
| 02:45.24 | Twingy | and wondered why I even bothered with the bricks |
| 02:52.30 | bjorkBSD | since it's your invention, some pix would be nice :D |
| 02:52.43 | bjorkBSD | ... por favor, ie |
| 02:52.45 | Twingy | it's not an invention! |
| 02:52.49 | Twingy | it's a friggin bucket! |
| 02:52.55 | Twingy | I'll try and take pics this weekend |
| 02:53.01 | bjorkBSD | heheh i know. |
| 02:53.28 | bjorkBSD | it's the mundane easily overlooked things which spark the best ideas. |
| 02:53.35 | Twingy | yep |
| 02:56.42 | Twingy | this cnc mill is the best $1800 I ever spent hands down |
| 03:01.18 | bjorkBSD | a taig? |
| 03:01.32 | Twingy | jes |
| 03:01.43 | bjorkBSD | i'm poorer than thou |
| 03:01.52 | Twingy | I bought it after I sold my town house |
| 03:01.54 | Twingy | I had money then |
| 03:01.56 | bjorkBSD | hah! |
| 03:02.10 | bjorkBSD | i can only afford one of those things after i build it from gingery's specs. |
| 03:02.20 | Twingy | had enough money for tile in the kitchen, redwood for the living room, and a taig cnc + tools |
| 03:03.00 | Twingy | next summer I'm going to dump a bunch of money into making the front/back yard look nice |
| 03:03.13 | Twingy | too poor this summer |
| 03:08.18 | Twingy | I need to put in a digikey order soon |
| 03:08.25 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php <--- heh bu_bomb() works :) |
| 03:46.45 | IriX64 | man i did it again, pasted the index, urfffff :( |
| 03:51.01 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/460579 |
| 03:51.17 | IriX64 | ahhhh forget it it's not important |
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| 07:23.27 | clock_ | brlcad: did you see my capscrews? |
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| 19:06.05 | brlcad | clock_: not yet, been on travel all week, just got back .. be a while to catch up |
| 19:26.18 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 19:26.20 | smallfoot- | welcome back |
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| 20:31.38 | IriX64 | clock_: where may I see these cap screws? |
| 20:35.31 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work <----- your geometry, but i'd like to include something besides example geometry, and all i can do is a mug :) |
| 20:41.31 | clock_ | IriX64: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ the bottommost entry |
| 20:41.43 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:42.05 | IriX64 | do you mind if i copy these? |
| 20:42.28 | clock_ | they are under GFDL |
| 20:43.06 | IriX64 | not familiar with GFDL, explain please. |
| 20:43.46 | clock_ | do you know CC-BY-SA? |
| 20:43.57 | IriX64 | no. |
| 20:44.02 | clock_ | Creative Commons by Share-Alike |
| 20:44.34 | clock_ | you can copy GFDL stuff as long as you give people access to the source and if you make a derivative work, it has to be under GFDL too |
| 20:44.39 | clock_ | it's basically a GPL for documentation |
| 20:44.45 | clock_ | also made by Free Software Foundation. |
| 20:44.49 | IriX64 | thought it was some kind of licence thats why I ask, ill give proper credit, how would you like it worded? |
| 20:44.52 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:45.38 | clock_ | (c) under GFDL 2007 Karel Kulhavy? |
| 20:46.36 | clock_ | are they useful for you? |
| 20:48.22 | clock_ | You can also generate yourself some bolts, with this program http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/hex.c |
| 20:48.38 | clock_ | link allenbolt and hexbolt to be symlink to the program executable and then run e.g. ./allenbolt M3x40 or ./hexbolt M12x700 |
| 20:52.20 | IriX64 | id need source (rebuild ala cygwin) |
| 20:52.38 | IriX64 | whoa that is source, ijust a sec. |
| 20:53.15 | IriX64 | ill compile it latewr let me finish this. |
| 21:00.36 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/twibright The first page caption points to your page. |
| 21:00.54 | IriX64 | they're not in any particular order |
| 21:01.29 | IriX64 | had no idea you could do threading in brlcad :) |
| 21:01.52 | IriX64 | have no idea period ;) |
| 21:05.51 | IriX64 | compiles clean and it runs will run on windows with the cygwin1.dll clock_. |
| 21:05.52 | clock_ | oh man the angle dist cursor is awesome |
| 21:05.58 | clock_ | IriX64: good |
| 21:06.02 | clock_ | IriX64: are you a brl-cad developer? |
| 21:06.08 | IriX64 | heh they did a good job on that |
| 21:06.17 | IriX64 | nah man i just play |
| 21:07.34 | IriX64 | my addiction calls, ill be back after i satisfy the tobbaco craving. |
| 21:24.26 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 21:24.48 | IriX64 | gcc -o hex.exe hex.c <--- results in an exe, no errors no warnings, I like that |
| 21:25.14 | IriX64 | should include in external, then just exec hex |
| 21:30.31 | ``Erik | http://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg |
| 21:33.51 | IriX64 | they never heard of my little pony? |
| 21:43.48 | clock_ | The mged already corrupted itself the database in a way that even restarting mged doesn't fix it: |
| 21:43.51 | clock_ | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...db_dircheck: Duplicate of '', given temporary name 'A_' |
| 21:43.54 | clock_ | db_dircheck: Duplicate of '', given temporary name 'A_' |
| 21:43.57 | clock_ | db_dircheck: Duplicate of '', given temporary name 'A_' |
| 21:44.00 | clock_ | Done |
| 21:44.16 | clock_ | How can I get rid of it? The database operations now randomly fail with nonsensical messages, I cannot replace a too thick M8 screw with a good M8 screw. |
| 21:48.03 | brlcad | either g2asc && asc2g or do a keep in mged of the pieces that are okay or export or convert .. depends on the nature of the corruption |
| 21:49.04 | clock_ | now I exported into ascii and cannot reimport |
| 21:49.46 | clock_ | says Error: Temporary file (./_asc_2_g_temp_) is in the way (rename, delete or move it) |
| 21:50.37 | brlcad | remove the temp file |
| 21:50.46 | brlcad | unless that's what you actually named it |
| 21:51.27 | clock_ | When I remove it and import, mged just disappears and mged.core appears |
| 21:51.32 | clock_ | is that intended behaviour? |
| 21:51.40 | brlcad | huh? |
| 21:51.44 | brlcad | what are you doing? |
| 21:51.47 | clock_ | The binary data are saved into mged.core instead of perpend.g? |
| 21:51.56 | clock_ | 1) make sure perpend.g doesn't exist |
| 21:52.01 | clock_ | 2) mged perpend.g, create yes |
| 21:52.06 | clock_ | 3) import perpend.asc |
| 21:52.20 | clock_ | that's all folks |
| 21:52.36 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:52.55 | brlcad | that wasn't one of the approaches I mentioned :) |
| 21:53.09 | brlcad | run asc2g |
| 21:53.11 | clock_ | how do I make perpend.g from perpend.asc? |
| 21:53.31 | brlcad | this is failure recovery, have to see the output, make sure it can succeed |
| 21:53.50 | brlcad | likewise if there were any errors during g2asc, that would be very important |
| 21:53.53 | clock_ | couldn't the mged remove temp files when segfaulting? |
| 21:54.01 | clock_ | Or, generate unique temp filenames? |
| 21:54.16 | clock_ | Or instead of bugging with the annoying temp filename existing message, just silently delete the file himself? |
| 21:54.30 | clock_ | alias mged="rm *temp*; mged" |
| 21:55.07 | brlcad | it could do a lot of things, though potentially deleting user data wouldn't likely ever be one of them |
| 21:55.14 | clock_ | OMG I made it |
| 21:55.30 | clock_ | after several segfaults and database corruptions, I MANAGED TO REPLACE 3 SCREWS! |
| 21:57.01 | clock_ | OK, g2asc and asc2g is the magic anti-mged cure :) |
| 21:57.54 | brlcad | not always, but it's often a means to recover from an intentional or unintentional error |
| 21:58.35 | brlcad | not a "standard operating procedure" in the least though.. you obviously encountered at least one critical bug somewhere along the way |
| 21:58.47 | brlcad | whatever corrupted the database in the first place |
| 21:58.48 | clock_ | "" duplicate, renaming to "A_" also funny ;-) |
| 21:59.15 | clock_ | when I encounter a critical amount of critical bugs I stop sending bugreports ;-) |
| 21:59.28 | brlcad | somehow the database contains a geometry object that has an empty name |
| 21:59.46 | clock_ | casuse I just want my data and cannot spend 15 minutes collecting stacktraces every 5 minutes |
| 22:00.43 | brlcad | they also have to generally be fully repeatable to get fixed, and db corruptions rarely ever are (they're generally exceptionally rare) |
| 22:00.43 | clock_ | or did you already run out of my stacktraces and need a batch of fresh ones? :) |
| 22:01.14 | brlcad | you're certainly getting there ;) |
| 22:01.33 | clock_ | also those 0.0000mm overlaps are funny |
| 22:01.42 | clock_ | and it makes glitches in the screw pictures at coordinate zero |
| 22:02.09 | clock_ | floating point arithmetics a.k.a. the fish was sooooo big ... no wait ... sooooooooooooo big |
| 22:03.36 | clock_ | rtweight seems to hang on the treads and g2dxf seems to run excessively long |
| 22:03.46 | clock_ | threads not treads |
| 22:05.22 | brlcad | i would expect g-dxf to take a long time on the threaded models, they're also undoubtedly smaller than the tessellation tolerance |
| 22:05.42 | clock_ | Wanna a reproducible bang? I send you perpend.asc and it should bang mged 7.8.4 |
| 22:06.01 | brlcad | howso? |
| 22:06.09 | brlcad | on File -> Import? |
| 22:06.09 | clock_ | what's your e-mail? |
| 22:06.12 | clock_ | yes |
| 22:06.45 | brlcad | sure, send it over -- send it to bugs at brlcad dot org |
| 22:07.48 | clock_ | OK sent |
| 22:07.52 | clock_ | do you get that e-mail? |
| 22:08.01 | clock_ | Can you try? Do you have 7.8.4? |
| 22:08.09 | clock_ | Or you can try with whatever version, what happens :) |
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| 23:12.54 | smallfoot- | brlcad, when is next win32 binary release getting done? |
| 23:26.46 | *** join/#brlcad cad47 (n=3e2f2890@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:57.09 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff <----- frame buffer support works |
| 00:01.35 | IriX64 | that was done with the cygwin dll's and your unix code, xserver courtesy cygwin-x carved out and turned into a windows x-server |
| 00:56.10 | IriX64 | you do realize all this stuff is stubbed till i get the dll's up to snuff? |
| 00:56.52 | IriX64 | pix courtesy of the national archives :) |
| 01:10.11 | IriX64 | well not all stubs. |
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| 15:11.34 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tom reported that the units command in mged doesn't work |
| 15:13.19 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 15:13.19 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: fixed versioning issue throughout package where the vers.c files could be out of |
| 15:13.20 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: sync if you updated the main version number without doing a clean or export. |
| 15:13.20 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: now all the version numbers collectively pull from the same file(s) in |
| 15:13.20 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: include/conf/. |
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| 18:11.37 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 20:18.19 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/463163 <------ clock_, get them to put it in external |
| 20:25.45 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work <----- bldg391 |
| 20:29.33 | IriX64 | thanks to brlcad for the secret to that nice 10 warning, it's gone. |
| 20:33.28 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 20:33.28 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 20:46.39 | IriX64 | looks like i'm tied to cygwin-x. |
| 20:47.19 | IriX64 | the others, they bring up the geometry but not the rt output |
| 22:12.09 | IriX64 | burn this to cd and try it on my other machine. |
| 22:14.21 | IriX64 | joevalleyfiled, can you live with 9 dll's and xwin.exe in the bin dir? |
| 22:15.43 | IriX64 | err joevalleyfield too :) |
| 23:26.53 | IriX64 | freaking fonts are missing :) |
| 23:30.21 | IriX64 | found them, now to burn another disk sigh :) |
| 23:39.13 | IriX64 | I DON"T beleive it, they hard coded the freaking font paths in. |
| 23:40.59 | IriX64 | could create a dir on the drive called /X11R6/blaghblaghblagh i suppose but nobody wants that kind of kludge. |
| 23:51.17 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:51.17 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 00:01.54 | IriX64 | this is for the birds, would be asier to re-visit xming i think. |
| 00:02.02 | IriX64 | easier too. |
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| 01:31.37 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: |
| 01:31.37 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Was ignoring return code from db_dirbuild(), allowing execution on currupt files. |
| 01:31.37 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: Calls to db_dirbuild should always have the return code checked, There are many |
| 01:31.37 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: instances where this is not done (mostly in the "conv" directory). |
| 02:05.44 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (16 files): Added check of return value from db_dirbuild() |
| 02:07.02 | brlcad | woot |
| 02:10.47 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (iges/g-iges.c jack/g-jack.c): Added check of return of db_dirbuild() |
| 02:17.25 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/g-off.c: Added check of return of db_dirbuild() |
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| 02:29.36 | dli_ | /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 02:31.09 | IriX64 | should be in brlcad/lib no? |
| 02:31.39 | dli_ | IriX64, it's a compiling error |
| 02:32.24 | IriX64 | but its looking for the .so file check .libs in tcl dir |
| 02:33.02 | IriX64 | tcl built if you're up to conv |
| 02:35.17 | dli_ | brlcad-cvs building error: http://pastebin.ca/463733 |
| 02:38.01 | IriX64 | what the heck it did 3 ok why sphflake? |
| 02:38.55 | IriX64 | maybe libtcl8.5.so ran away from home :P |
| 02:39.37 | brlcad | dli_: k, thx... due to a recent change that builds libtcl shared instead of static, so libtool fails to look in the tcl build dir |
| 02:40.17 | IriX64 | my system is weird i can only go by what i know, if you want real help talk to these guys. |
| 02:42.46 | brlcad | there's supposed to be a fix in configure that compensates, but apparently not working for you |
| 02:44.44 | dli_ | brlcad, any option to pass to configure? |
| 02:48.39 | brlcad | dli_: you mean as a long term fix or short term fix? |
| 02:49.13 | brlcad | long term, it should work as is .. have to figure out what else is needed to make it work |
| 02:49.20 | brlcad | short term, you can just build static |
| 02:49.33 | brlcad | for gentoo integration, that certainly won't fly though |
| 02:49.49 | dli_ | brlcad, it's an error from buidling bench, I'm trying " --disable-bench ", now |
| 02:50.14 | brlcad | that won't work :) |
| 02:50.30 | brlcad | bench is just a minimal subset .. and that entire subset is required |
| 02:50.33 | dli_ | brlcad, then, I will just wait :) |
| 02:52.10 | brlcad | dli_: another short-term patch -- try adding --disable-shared to the line in configure.ac that says: ac_configure_args="$ac_configure_args --enable-symbols" |
| 02:52.20 | brlcad | it's near the end of the file |
| 02:52.46 | dli_ | brlcad, sounds nasty to me |
| 02:52.56 | brlcad | it's a one-line edit |
| 02:53.22 | brlcad | heck, you can run this to do it for you: |
| 02:54.12 | brlcad | perl -pi -e 's/enable-symbols/enable-symbols --disable-shared/' configure.ac |
| 02:54.30 | brlcad | then re-run ./autogen.sh and configure/compile normally |
| 02:54.52 | dli_ | brlcad, okay, I will add this line with comment, " short term fix" |
| 02:55.04 | brlcad | i mean just to test |
| 02:55.30 | brlcad | for portage integration, there's still the other things we talked about that need to get fixed |
| 02:56.31 | dli_ | brlcad, okay, I will use tell you how the change works |
| 02:56.50 | brlcad | thanks |
| 03:20.48 | dli_ | brlcad, no, doesn't help, ac_configure_args="$ac_configure_args --enable-symbols --disable-shared" |
| 03:21.11 | dli_ | /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 03:31.54 | brlcad | er, something's not right or not a clean build |
| 03:32.27 | brlcad | it's not going to use libtcl8.5.so _at_all_ with --disable-shared |
| 03:33.23 | dli_ | brlcad, couldn't be, portage always creates new folder for building |
| 03:39.49 | brlcad | somehow that wasn't a sufficient edit then |
| 03:49.53 | smallfoot- | brlcad, when will binary win32 release be made? |
| 03:52.30 | brlcad | smallfoot-: it's all hinging on these last couple remaining build issues in 7.10.1 |
| 03:52.38 | brlcad | hopefully early may |
| 03:54.04 | smallfoot- | okie cool |
| 03:54.14 | smallfoot- | build issues? |
| 04:18.53 | IriX64 | has to build on my system smallfoot :P |
| 04:25.34 | brlcad | smallfoot-: dealing with the new tcl/tk and finding scripting resources at run-time are the two issues that need resolving |
| 04:26.41 | IriX64 | brlcad: could activestates windows tcl/tk be used, i have successfully installed those in the past. |
| 04:31.31 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 04:32.33 | IriX64 | smallfoot, I'm kidding about building on my system :) |
| 04:33.10 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 04:33.46 | brlcad | IriX64: yes, it's sort of required at the moment if you're building the full binary distribution on Windows |
| 04:34.36 | IriX64 | maybe ill re-install them then |
| 04:35.30 | IriX64 | could happen |
| 06:02.27 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix recursive configure support for when the recursion goes more than one level deep. add more documentation on example use and vars that can be overridden. |
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| 16:06.52 | elite01 | hi |
| 16:07.35 | elite01 | why won't puts [expr {1+1}] work in that mged shell? |
| 16:08.14 | elite01 | i need to create 80 objects, all aligned in a grid, and want to use 2 for loops for that |
| 16:08.25 | elite01 | so i even read the first bits of some tcl tutorial |
| 16:08.30 | elite01 | but stuff doesn't really work :/ |
| 16:08.46 | elite01 | is brlcad's tcl interpreted heavily broken or is it just me? |
| 16:11.58 | bjorkBSD | elite01, doesn't that need a 'puts'? |
| 16:11.59 | bjorkBSD | or something to feed it into? |
| 16:12.23 | elite01 | yeah i just tried puts [expr {1+1}] |
| 16:12.31 | bjorkBSD | and it didn't like that? |
| 16:12.31 | elite01 | works in tclsh but doesn't in mged :( |
| 16:12.49 | elite01 | "Error: extra characters after close-brace" |
| 16:12.49 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-65.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 16:12.51 | bjorkBSD | oh i just noticed. you did have a puts. |
| 16:13.05 | bjorkBSD | works here man. |
| 16:13.11 | bjorkBSD | mged> puts [expr {1+1}] |
| 16:13.12 | bjorkBSD | 2 |
| 16:13.12 | bjorkBSD | mged> |
| 16:13.26 | elite01 | expr 1+1 also works |
| 16:13.28 | elite01 | umpf |
| 16:13.34 | elite01 | *restarts mged* |
| 16:14.01 | elite01 | aah ouch that does hurt |
| 16:14.07 | elite01 | well works now |
| 16:14.23 | elite01 | looks like i was typing in some expression all the time |
| 16:14.23 | bjorkBSD | what was causing the error? |
| 16:14.33 | elite01 | at least i guess so |
| 16:14.51 | elite01 | well thanks |
| 16:14.51 | bjorkBSD | which version of brlcad are you using? |
| 16:15.05 | elite01 | 7.8.4 |
| 16:15.13 | bjorkBSD | see topic. |
| 16:15.23 | elite01 | hm too lazy to update |
| 16:15.26 | elite01 | as i said, it works now |
| 16:15.36 | elite01 | and i promise i will update tomorrow or so |
| 16:15.39 | elite01 | :D |
| 16:15.47 | bjorkBSD | that's fine. |
| 16:15.57 | bjorkBSD | what you're using might be adequate for your needs. |
| 16:16.07 | elite01 | my needs are really low |
| 16:16.54 | bjorkBSD | design of WMDs huh? |
| 16:17.40 | elite01 | yeah, don't need too much precision there :) |
| 16:17.45 | bjorkBSD | nah :-j |
| 16:17.53 | bjorkBSD | they're disposable items. |
| 16:18.09 | elite01 | haha |
| 16:23.50 | elite01 | bjorkBSD, still there? |
| 16:24.08 | bjorkBSD | no. |
| 16:24.10 | elite01 | is "in" supposed to work in a for loop? |
| 16:24.20 | brlcad | elite01: mged shell operates in "glob compatibility mode" by default |
| 16:24.41 | brlcad | you have to turn on tcl evaluation, or escape the glob characters |
| 16:25.33 | brlcad | i.e. if you want to list all regions in a geometry database, you might "ls *.r" .. tcl has no globbing concept to know what to do with * by default, but mged's shell does |
| 16:25.52 | elite01 | ok |
| 16:26.02 | elite01 | but * and ? is the only globbing isn't it? |
| 16:26.20 | brlcad | changing the interpreter mode is pretty simple, it's on the File menu under Tcl Evaluation or you can "set glob_compat_mode" to 0 or 1 to turn it on/off |
| 16:26.29 | brlcad | no, [] are glob chars too |
| 16:26.48 | elite01 | aah |
| 16:26.50 | brlcad | hence why puts [expr {1+1}] doesn't work.. that's a character glob set |
| 16:27.01 | brlcad | e.g. ls [a-f]*.d |
| 16:27.03 | elite01 | ouch :) |
| 16:27.21 | brlcad | something like puts \[expr {1+1]\] should work |
| 16:27.31 | brlcad | er, typo in there |
| 16:27.38 | brlcad | but you get the idea |
| 16:27.44 | brlcad | forget what the other glob chars are |
| 16:28.15 | elite01 | hmm still doesn't explain why that for loop won't work |
| 16:28.17 | brlcad | if you don't need/want globbing and just want regular tcl shell behavior, you can set glob_compat_mode 0 and it should evaluate |
| 16:28.19 | elite01 | wait a miinute |
| 16:29.27 | elite01 | http://nopaste.php-q.net/291936 if you'd be so nice to have a look at it |
| 16:29.42 | elite01 | coordinates are a bit broken - but the prompt at the end is strange |
| 16:30.55 | elite01 | globbing doesn't change it |
| 16:34.19 | brlcad | okay, two issues |
| 16:34.53 | brlcad | one, the linebreaks are significant, particularly to the 'in' command (this holds true for regular tcl shell too) |
| 16:35.01 | brlcad | that's why it prompts |
| 16:35.06 | elite01 | aah |
| 16:35.30 | elite01 | so i need to use a few \es |
| 16:35.31 | brlcad | second, you probably need to evaluate the command so that the string is expanded |
| 16:35.51 | brlcad | try, http://pastebin.ca/464602 |
| 16:36.33 | elite01 | nice, that works! |
| 16:36.35 | elite01 | thanks :) |
| 16:36.39 | brlcad | alsok, you're basically creating a pattern that has no transformation, the pattern tool can do that for you too |
| 16:36.52 | brlcad | yw |
| 16:36.55 | elite01 | no transformation? |
| 16:37.11 | brlcad | you're creating a bunch of boxes |
| 16:37.12 | elite01 | just a few buttons... like on a telephone or the right side of a keyboard |
| 16:37.49 | bjorkBSD | the numeric keypad |
| 16:37.54 | brlcad | that's what I mean, you're making a pattern of objects -- the pattern tool (on the Tools) menu will do this for you fairly easily |
| 16:37.55 | elite01 | yes, that one |
| 16:38.02 | bjorkBSD | they're both keypads ;) |
| 16:38.02 | elite01 | ok, thanks again |
| 16:38.18 | brlcad | no problem |
| 16:38.41 | brlcad | and if I'd get around to finish upgrading the clone command, that would do exactly what you're doing with one line ;) |
| 16:38.51 | brlcad | but it only works for v4 databases at the moment still |
| 16:39.28 | elite01 | sounds nice |
| 16:39.44 | brlcad | it's awesome :) |
| 16:42.16 | brlcad | something like "clone -i 1 -n 36 -t 10 0 0 -a 6 0 10 0 keypad.btn" would do that entire keypad with all the corresponding translations |
| 16:43.23 | elite01 | oook :) |
| 16:43.24 | brlcad | increment by 1, create 36 copies, translate each by 10 along x and create a new row after every 6 |
| 16:44.07 | brlcad | maybe -a 6 -60 10 0 to reset to the same grid x coord |
| 16:45.06 | elite01 | just tell people how to use it :) |
| 16:45.33 | brlcad | it's got integrated help and everything, but yeah -- it's actually one of the easiest and powerful replication interfaces |
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| 17:01.28 | elite01 | eek everything's spinning |
| 17:02.16 | elite01 | ha! killed it! :) |
| 17:12.48 | elite01 | ok, need to bug you again - how do i use the pattern tool? some documentation somewhere> |
| 17:36.19 | elite01 | ok seems to kind of work :) |
| 17:36.23 | brlcad | the documentation on the website covers the pattern tool |
| 17:36.29 | brlcad | vol III iirc |
| 17:36.41 | brlcad | you stop the spinning with the "0" |
| 17:36.49 | elite01 | yup |
| 17:37.02 | brlcad | pressing xyzXYZ in the graphics window sends it spinning |
| 17:37.14 | elite01 | what a nice keypad :) |
| 17:37.49 | brlcad | have to run out, but a screenshot would be nifty ;) |
| 17:39.33 | elite01 | http://pastehere.com/?mguetc |
| 17:40.06 | elite01 | maybe not a 100% photorealistic - but as i said... requirements are low :) |
| 17:56.46 | IriX64 | even the default font... ouch |
| 17:57.40 | elite01 | pff |
| 17:58.13 | elite01 | now - i want a big region out of those many buttons - like r buttons u glob_aint_work_* :/ |
| 17:58.23 | elite01 | because i'd need an u in front of each button |
| 17:58.30 | elite01 | now, what to do? |
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| 02:41.48 | brlcad | alas if he were only here, of course |
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| 10:04.44 | elite01 | uhm how do i create a region that's the union of a few objects which are globbed? |
| 10:05.17 | elite01 | r asd u globme* won't work because there's a "u" missing in front of every but the first globbed primitive |
| 10:06.17 | clock_ | brlcad: before, the whole Ronja model set compiled overnight |
| 10:06.45 | clock_ | brlcad: now I introduced threads into one uncomplicated model and just that model already took 2 nights and still not compiled |
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| 11:26.03 | clock_ | tgc(thread_cyl10_0.8115_0.0625.s): 1 intersects != {0,2,4} |
| 11:26.03 | clock_ | Is that normal or should I report it to the bug database? |
| 11:44.34 | elite01_ | isn't there some big fat book with everything in it i need to know about brlcad? |
| 11:44.45 | elite01_ | those pdf files aren't really uuh... big |
| 12:24.08 | clock_ | Failing to compile brl-cad 7.10.0: |
| 12:24.10 | *** join/#brlcad cad79 (n=540250f8@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 12:24.19 | clock_ | ./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >& std::operator<< <std::char_traits<char> >(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*)' |
| 12:24.31 | cad79 | hi |
| 12:25.19 | cad79 | i have problem during starting of the application. Could somebody help? |
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| 12:44.12 | _jack- | sup ;) |
| 12:44.21 | _jack- | wtf, wrong chan |
| 12:44.21 | _jack- | nm |
| 13:06.42 | elite01_ | how to edit (translate) multiple primitives at once? or maybe a region? |
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| 16:49.57 | deltazap | woo, my first decent model :) |
| 16:50.15 | deltazap | http://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/platform/ |
| 16:50.32 | deltazap | warning, huge sizes ahead |
| 17:14.17 | elite01_ | whoa nice |
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| 18:25.16 | IriX64_ | elite01_ may i ask what version and platform you're using? |
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| 18:44.54 | jano | hey, happy birthday, punk :p |
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| 18:47.56 | IriX64_ | http://www.pastebin.ca/465957 < ---- don't know id this made it, this is the only occurence of have_x in the whole file. |
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| 19:09.16 | cad86 | I just ran across brl-cad.... what is it |
| 19:09.36 | cad86 | I have a model someone made using it and I was wanting to convert it to a 3ds or such |
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| 19:13.37 | Ralfy2020 | hello? |
| 19:14.22 | Ralfy2020 | is there a way to convert a model that was made in brlcad to another type? |
| 19:16.34 | ``Erik | lots |
| 19:16.43 | ``Erik | look at the g-* programs in bin/ |
| 19:17.23 | deltazap | also volume IV - converting geometry |
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| 19:23.10 | Ralfy2020 | anyone know what kind of model uses the .ac extention (new to brlcad) |
| 19:30.49 | elite01_ | IriX64, sure, 7.8.4 on linux on a t2300 |
| 19:40.24 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/466046 |
| 19:42.12 | elite01_ | hmm i guess you're taking me for someone else |
| 19:42.43 | IriX64 | huh didn't notice, was just curious |
| 19:42.58 | elite01_ | hm? don't get it |
| 19:43.07 | IriX64 | did you get your array sortedf out? |
| 19:43.34 | elite01_ | yes |
| 19:43.48 | elite01_ | i still have questions, if you have some time to spare |
| 19:43.49 | IriX64 | wonderfull :) |
| 19:44.12 | IriX64 | im not a user i just play but ask someone will in time answer i'm sure |
| 19:44.14 | elite01_ | so, i finally used a tcl script to build a few of those buttons |
| 19:44.30 | elite01_ | because when using the pattern tool, the offset wasn't right |
| 19:44.48 | elite01_ | and i don't know how to move multiple objects at once - not even how to enter edit mode using the console |
| 19:45.08 | IriX64 | you're light years beyond me |
| 19:45.43 | elite01_ | oh |
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| 20:02.07 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/466071 |
| 20:06.50 | elite01_ | it can find headers but no libraries? umpf |
| 20:07.01 | IriX64 | disregard that last paste, i found it, unique to my system |
| 20:08.15 | IriX64 | that's what happens when you have a system in a constant state of flux :) |
| 20:08.50 | IriX64 | aren't I glad that wasn't filed as a formal report/ |
| 20:08.53 | IriX64 | . |
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| 20:20.19 | cad25 | can anyone tell me the difference in rt and rtg3 |
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| 20:43.14 | brlcad | cad25: vast differences, use rt unless you know what rtg3 is :) |
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| 21:18.00 | ``Erik | heh, does anyone even use it anymore? |
| 21:18.20 | elite01_ | uh i even started using it |
| 21:18.57 | ``Erik | by 'it', I mean rtg3 and other archaic GIFT stuff... |
| 21:20.39 | ``Erik | elite: what are you talking about with the headers and libraries? O.o |
| 21:20.40 | elite01_ | oh |
| 21:20.55 | elite01_ | i was referring to the pastebin link |
| 21:21.35 | ``Erik | ah, 'k, I tend to ignore irix64's paste stuff... :) what questions do you have? |
| 21:22.04 | elite01_ | how can i translate multiple primitives? |
| 21:23.20 | ``Erik | hum, got me on that... might be something you can do in red to apply a matrix to a set of primitives, but I d'no... I'm very weak on the mged use side, I mostly do underlying code... |
| 21:23.22 | brlcad | put them in a group, translate the group |
| 21:23.31 | brlcad | push the matrix |
| 21:23.31 | ``Erik | ok, that woulda been my guess, heh |
| 21:23.49 | elite01_ | ah ok :) |
| 21:24.18 | brlcad | if keeping them organized together makes sense, then I'd just keep the group around and not push the matrix |
| 21:24.38 | ``Erik | 'push', if I recall, is a matrix elimination operations, it'll mutate the primitives so the matrix heirarchy is all identity |
| 21:24.49 | elite01_ | ok |
| 21:24.50 | ``Erik | s/ns/n/ |
| 21:24.53 | elite01_ | another one :) |
| 21:25.00 | elite01_ | i made two primitives right next to each other |
| 21:25.51 | elite01_ | not, during rt, they intersect with a depth of 0.0000 :/ |
| 21:25.51 | elite01_ | *now |
| 21:25.52 | ``Erik | if they mathematically touch, you'll get floating point fuzz that'll do "weird things" |
| 21:26.39 | ``Erik | brlcad: does the tcl print precision work in mged? |
| 21:27.14 | elite01_ | and what to do about it? just ignore? or rather place the primitives a piece apart? |
| 21:27.16 | brlcad | "tcl print precision"? |
| 21:27.34 | ``Erik | yeah, there's a command to alter tcl's default precision for printing floating point numbers... |
| 21:27.47 | brlcad | if it's something a tool like rt or rtcheck is reporting, those are %lf'd in the code with various lengths |
| 21:27.49 | ``Erik | I came across it in the tcl/tk pocketbook, I think |
| 21:28.11 | brlcad | i don't think any of the useful numbers reported are touched by tcl |
| 21:28.19 | brlcad | they come from the C side |
| 21:28.20 | ``Erik | heh, hurrr, rt doesn't use tclsh |
| 21:28.41 | ``Erik | <-- claims being addled by hunger, hasn't eaten today |
| 21:28.53 | brlcad | elite01_: run rtcheck, it might give you better information |
| 21:29.15 | elite01_ | it doesn't detect any overlap |
| 21:29.28 | ``Erik | what about g_qa ? |
| 21:30.10 | ``Erik | (if you're just doing visual rendering, you probably don't care too much about overlap, so you can pass rt the -R flag I think to quell the warnings) |
| 21:30.17 | elite01_ | rt only reports those overlaps when i use cell jitter |
| 21:31.17 | elite01_ | ah yes, i just want visual rendering |
| 21:31.46 | elite01_ | brlcad is quite overkill, but i wouldn't know what else to use |
| 21:32.41 | brlcad | elite01_: rtcheck -s1024 |
| 21:32.49 | brlcad | by default is does a 50x50 grid |
| 21:33.07 | elite01_ | oh |
| 21:33.13 | elite01_ | still no overlaps *tries more* |
| 21:33.23 | brlcad | won't go over 10k iirc |
| 21:33.34 | elite01_ | it seems to :) |
| 21:33.51 | elite01_ | uhm i gues that will take some time |
| 21:33.57 | brlcad | it won't tell you when you hit the limit, it just silently falls back to 512 or something ;) |
| 21:34.22 | brlcad | though there was some work to let it go much much higher |
| 21:34.23 | ``Erik | lame |
| 21:34.40 | elite01_ | it reports that it's using that high grid - and it's still checking |
| 21:34.57 | brlcad | still, you should be able to match rt -- use the same grid size and turn on jitter |
| 21:36.05 | elite01_ | please :) |
| 21:36.32 | elite01_ | hm - finished without any overlap |
| 21:38.00 | brlcad | ah, interesting .. rtcheck basically does clamp and toss -- no way for it to report a 0.000+ overlap |
| 21:38.08 | brlcad | sorry, that won't help :) |
| 21:38.56 | elite01_ | ah |
| 21:39.56 | brlcad | hm, as well as this comment in the code: * ToDo: It would be nice if we could pass in (1) an overlap depth |
| 21:40.00 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:42.03 | elite01_ | that irradiance cache, used when doing photon mapping, is supposed to take some time - or am i doing something wrong? |
| 21:42.31 | ``Erik | it takes a fair bit of time |
| 21:42.36 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add an overlap depth reporting tolerance parameter to the ray-tracers (similar to -R) |
| 21:42.45 | ``Erik | the more photons and the more complex the scene, the longer it takes |
| 21:43.16 | elite01_ | ok |
| 21:43.30 | elite01_ | whoa even another question |
| 21:43.40 | elite01_ | how am i supposed to model a sheet of paper |
| 21:43.50 | ``Erik | make a very veryt thing arb8? |
| 21:43.55 | elite01_ | one side is printed, the other isn't - should i use 2 arb8? |
| 21:43.57 | ``Erik | very very thin |
| 21:44.32 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: the tracers support the -R option, which turns reporting on/off |
| 21:44.34 | brlcad | or make a plate mode BoT by hand (ugh) :) |
| 21:44.50 | brlcad | really thin arb would be best |
| 21:45.19 | elite01_ | hmm but what about the 2 sides? |
| 21:45.19 | elite01_ | one should be rather white, the other textured |
| 21:47.43 | brlcad | projection shader should do the trick on a single arb8 |
| 21:48.59 | elite01_ | i just wanted to see if a few objects, well approximated by cubes, could fit into a certain space |
| 21:49.08 | elite01_ | and now i'm building cool-locking models :) |
| 21:50.50 | ``Erik | "more teeth than brain cells" hehehehe, red dwarf++ |
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| 12:52.00 | gioacchino | hello |
| 12:52.28 | gioacchino | anybody can help me ? |
| 12:52.58 | elite01_ | maybe |
| 12:53.07 | elite01_ | i'm no experts, but there are some here - so, just ask |
| 12:53.18 | elite01_ | i'm not even a single expert |
| 12:53.44 | gioacchino | I use brlcad latest version |
| 12:53.51 | gioacchino | I have a prbolem |
| 12:53.59 | elite01_ | what is it? |
| 12:54.09 | gioacchino | mged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/sgip & |
| 12:54.33 | gioacchino | 7.10 version |
| 12:54.39 | gioacchino | when I run |
| 12:54.42 | gioacchino | mged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/sgip & |
| 12:54.53 | gioacchino | it respond no such file or directory |
| 12:54.59 | gioacchino | how to fix it ? |
| 12:55.15 | elite01_ | is there /dev/sgip? |
| 12:56.00 | gioacchino | I not know |
| 12:56.09 | gioacchino | but i use the user guide... |
| 12:56.29 | elite01_ | just check ls /dev/sgip |
| 12:56.37 | gioacchino | I'm a new bie |
| 12:56.37 | elite01_ | i don't have /dev/sgip - i don't even know what it is |
| 12:56.56 | gioacchino | file:///usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.4/html/manuals/mged/index.html |
| 12:57.34 | elite01_ | hum i just use file->raytrace and it eeh kind of just works |
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| 13:00.05 | gioacchino | a demand |
| 13:00.35 | gioacchino | qhen you click on window when you see your project |
| 13:01.26 | gioacchino | you can only enlarge or contract ? |
| 13:01.35 | gioacchino | or you can make some action ? |
| 13:01.59 | elite01_ | wait |
| 13:02.10 | elite01_ | what window? the one where rendered stuff is in? |
| 13:02.53 | elite01_ | and what do you mean by "some action"? |
| 13:03.49 | gioacchino | window |
| 13:04.30 | gioacchino | the windows where you se your creation 3d |
| 13:05.10 | elite01_ | ok |
| 13:06.16 | gioacchino | you can do any action |
| 13:06.32 | gioacchino | or you can onbly enlarge and contract image ? |
| 13:06.36 | elite01_ | uuh well i can zoom, resize, move objects, all kinds of stuff |
| 13:06.44 | elite01_ | if i just click in the middle, it zooms |
| 13:06.51 | elite01_ | with shift, it moves the viewport |
| 13:08.33 | gioacchino | hum... |
| 13:08.46 | gioacchino | form command line how to save a project ? |
| 13:09.12 | gioacchino | i try with save but when I reopen the project is black |
| 13:10.58 | gioacchino | mged> exec fbserv |
| 13:10.58 | gioacchino | couldn't execute "fbserv": no such file or directory |
| 13:11.29 | gioacchino | I start brl-cad in is folder... |
| 13:11.39 | gioacchino | and fbserv is in the ls |
| 13:12.13 | elite01_ | uhm you needn't save |
| 13:12.28 | elite01_ | just like mged mystuff.g, close mged, do mged mystuff.g, ls - stuff is there again |
| 13:12.33 | elite01_ | no idea why you don't have fbserv |
| 13:12.38 | elite01_ | maybe you need to make install |
| 13:12.50 | gioacchino | mmm |
| 13:12.53 | gioacchino | I have fbserv |
| 13:12.59 | gioacchino | but exec not see it |
| 13:13.38 | gioacchino | I try with all tool in brl folder and it tell |
| 13:13.46 | gioacchino | no such file for all tool |
| 13:13.49 | elite01_ | i guess they have to be in $PATH |
| 13:14.14 | gioacchino | how to add the brl folder to path ? |
| 13:14.25 | elite01_ | have you done "make install"? |
| 13:14.29 | gioacchino | yes |
| 13:14.54 | elite01_ | hmm should "just work" then - will fbserv do something when you just run it in a sh? |
| 13:15.16 | gioacchino | no |
| 13:15.26 | gioacchino | because it is in a folder not in path |
| 13:15.41 | gioacchino | bash: fbserv: command not found |
| 13:15.47 | elite01_ | shows usage info here |
| 13:15.50 | gioacchino | but if I |
| 13:16.21 | elite01_ | maybe i added it myself |
| 13:16.23 | gioacchino | but if I run /user/brlcad/bin/fbserv it ask a port number |
| 13:16.47 | elite01_ | then just do that :) |
| 13:17.15 | elite01_ | or add /usr/brlcad/bin to the $PATH - looks like that isn't done automatically |
| 13:18.37 | gioacchino | how to add ? |
| 13:19.43 | elite01_ | add a line like "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin" to your .bashrc or .bash_profile or something like that |
| 13:21.28 | gioacchino | it only add this folder or delete the dther folder ? |
| 13:23.02 | elite01_ | only add that |
| 13:23.07 | gioacchino | ok |
| 13:23.14 | gioacchino | I ass it at the bottom |
| 13:23.48 | elite01_ | yeah |
| 13:25.40 | gioacchino | wath the difference fro,m |
| 13:25.57 | gioacchino | X wondow and OGL window? |
| 13:26.10 | gioacchino | because when I start mged from kde menu' |
| 13:26.22 | gioacchino | it ave all menu' but it use X window |
| 13:26.53 | gioacchino | when I run mged from terminal it not have menu but i can use ogl wondow |
| 13:27.00 | elite01_ | uuh sorry, no idea |
| 13:27.56 | ``Erik | X and OpenGL are two different API's... I usually use /dev/X |
| 13:28.12 | ``Erik | why are you trying to explicitely start an FB server? |
| 13:28.34 | ``Erik | when you run 'rt' in mged, it automatically takes care of all that for you |
| 13:28.46 | gioacchino | I am a new bie |
| 13:29.01 | gioacchino | I try to make the cup of manual |
| 13:29.14 | ``Erik | huh, and they say to run an fbserv? odd |
| 13:29.24 | gioacchino | yes |
| 13:29.36 | gioacchino | fbserv before rt |
| 13:29.49 | ``Erik | um, if you have geometry displayed in your graphical edit window (the line drawing), you can run "rt -F/dev/Xl" |
| 13:30.13 | gioacchino | one question |
| 13:30.17 | ``Erik | -F/dev/Xl translates to set the X device as the framebuffer and linger |
| 13:30.24 | gioacchino | whe I run mged from kde menu |
| 13:30.32 | gioacchino | it have friendly menus |
| 13:30.39 | gioacchino | but it not run opengl |
| 13:30.56 | ``Erik | Chances are that opengl will not buy you anything |
| 13:30.58 | gioacchino | how to run it with opengl from kdemenu ? |
| 13:31.10 | ``Erik | it shows wireframe either way |
| 13:31.21 | elite01_ | uhm need to go for a while, see you later |
| 13:31.34 | ``Erik | they're not visible different... filled triangles is on the todo list (called "shaded geometry" at the moment) |
| 13:31.50 | gioacchino | ha |
| 13:31.59 | gioacchino | X and opengl are the same ? |
| 13:32.07 | ``Erik | yeah, it sucks, we need to fix it, but we're fighting mgmt on it :) |
| 13:32.12 | ``Erik | they look the same at the moment |
| 13:32.21 | ``Erik | they just use different subsystems to draw the lines |
| 13:32.28 | gioacchino | I was thinf opengl most powerfull because my videocard support it strongly |
| 13:32.35 | ``Erik | the OGL display is all glBegin(GL_LINE); |
| 13:32.54 | gioacchino | and how to start with menus from terminal ? |
| 13:32.59 | ``Erik | if we had shaded display, you'd be right... but we're all wireframe at the moment, so it doesn't really matter :( |
| 13:33.20 | ``Erik | the menus? you mean the GUI? you have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path, then run "mged" |
| 13:33.50 | gioacchino | I try now |
| 13:34.10 | gioacchino | ok now work |
| 13:34.19 | ``Erik | :) |
| 13:34.46 | gioacchino | before I have use ln -s mged on usr/bin but it start without menu' only the visualization winow |
| 13:35.14 | ``Erik | hum, mebbe it couldn't find the right tcl parts *shrug* |
| 13:35.18 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know |
| 13:35.30 | gioacchino | mmmmmmm |
| 13:35.39 | ``Erik | but there are ~400 programs in /usr/brlcad/bin and a lot of buttons in the gui just run "programname" |
| 13:35.49 | gioacchino | but if I run mged -n the menus isn't |
| 13:35.55 | ``Erik | so you really do need that directory in the path |
| 13:36.08 | gioacchino | I have add the directory inb the path |
| 13:36.46 | gioacchino | thi is echo $PATH/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 13:36.50 | gioacchino | thi is echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 13:37.00 | ``Erik | ok |
| 13:37.13 | gioacchino | but if /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin start mged -n the menus isn't |
| 13:37.20 | ``Erik | except you're echoing it |
| 13:37.22 | ``Erik | not exporting it |
| 13:37.47 | ``Erik | unless I misunderstand |
| 13:37.51 | gioacchino | ok I see bash rc |
| 13:38.13 | gioacchino | export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 13:38.24 | gioacchino | this is the command on bash.rc |
| 13:38.26 | ``Erik | if it's in your .bashrc, you have to log out and log back in for it to take effect for the menu's... or source it in the term you want to run it from |
| 13:38.38 | gioacchino | ok |
| 13:38.46 | gioacchino | I restart x server and relogin |
| 13:38.51 | gioacchino | see you later |
| 13:38.52 | ``Erik | ok, when you do that |
| 13:38.58 | ``Erik | start up an xterm and run "echo $PATH" |
| 13:39.00 | ``Erik | and make sure it's in there |
| 13:39.01 | ``Erik | ok? |
| 13:39.09 | gioacchino | ok |
| 13:39.17 | ``Erik | see you in a minute :) |
| 13:39.56 | *** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 13:40.19 | gioacchino | ok Im ready |
| 13:40.59 | ``Erik | then run mged *shrug* :) |
| 13:41.26 | gioacchino | it work |
| 13:41.34 | gioacchino | mmmmmmmm |
| 13:41.40 | gioacchino | is the -n param |
| 13:41.49 | gioacchino | whats -n ? |
| 13:42.04 | ``Erik | on mged? I've no idea |
| 13:42.17 | gioacchino | I see it on manual |
| 13:42.27 | gioacchino | hem |
| 13:42.34 | gioacchino | when I use -n |
| 13:42.51 | gioacchino | the windows is blue and the menu isn't |
| 13:43.08 | ``Erik | oh, 'n' is a synonym for -c |
| 13:43.09 | ``Erik | classic mode |
| 13:43.12 | ``Erik | you don't want that |
| 13:43.23 | gioacchino | ok... |
| 13:43.36 | gioacchino | the manual isnt wery clear... |
| 13:43.44 | gioacchino | and it work partially... |
| 13:43.54 | gioacchino | I can see anly some page |
| 13:43.57 | gioacchino | other problem |
| 13:44.14 | gioacchino | when I complie I must delete some error from makefile |
| 13:44.21 | gioacchino | esample |
| 13:44.27 | ``Erik | from the 7.10.0 source tarball? |
| 13:44.33 | gioacchino | -Lyes/lib |
| 13:44.46 | gioacchino | I must rewrite in -L/lib |
| 13:44.52 | gioacchino | [15:44] <``Erik> from the 7.10.0 source tarball? yes |
| 13:45.15 | gioacchino | and I must disable ADRT |
| 13:45.22 | ``Erik | can you paste the exact error to, uhhh, pastebin.ca or paste.lisp.org or something? |
| 13:45.29 | gioacchino | because isnt the file main.c and anothe file.c |
| 13:45.47 | gioacchino | this request is too hard.. |
| 13:45.57 | gioacchino | because I had fix it |
| 13:45.59 | gioacchino | I try |
| 13:46.12 | ``Erik | re-extract the tarball in /usr/tmp or something and do it there |
| 13:46.19 | ``Erik | then you can delete it once you paste the error... :) |
| 13:47.53 | gioacchino | no I try it |
| 13:48.04 | gioacchino | more than 10 |
| 13:48.28 | gioacchino | and I had redownload the tar.bz2 archive more than 3 |
| 13:48.38 | ``Erik | O.o odd |
| 13:49.41 | gioacchino | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=429282 |
| 13:50.49 | gioacchino | the problem with -Lyes/li to-->- L/lib is very hard!!! |
| 13:51.04 | gioacchino | I must fix more than 150 makefile!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 13:51.12 | ``Erik | hum, I'm sure you don't want to be building jove |
| 13:51.19 | gioacchino | on the src folder and subfolder |
| 13:51.33 | ``Erik | it's an obsolete reduced emacs clone |
| 13:51.36 | gioacchino | I wanth build jove |
| 13:51.44 | gioacchino | but it cause problem in making!!! |
| 13:51.50 | gioacchino | ok |
| 13:52.02 | gioacchino | buth jove isn't hard to fix... |
| 13:52.05 | gioacchino | is only 3 file |
| 13:52.12 | ``Erik | for some reason, you're getting "yes" substituted for "/usr/X11R6" |
| 13:52.33 | ``Erik | ohhh |
| 13:52.34 | ``Erik | hah |
| 13:52.41 | gioacchino | I was think |
| 13:52.48 | ``Erik | ok, you did "--with-x11", which is asking for WHERE your X11 is installed |
| 13:52.55 | gioacchino | yes/lib is = /lib |
| 13:53.05 | gioacchino | and I fix with this |
| 13:53.11 | ``Erik | if your X11 is in a normal place, like "/usr/X11R6", then you don't need to give it that flag |
| 13:53.22 | gioacchino | but I not know if /lib is rigth or wrong |
| 13:53.24 | ``Erik | if you do give it that flag, you have to tell it where, like --with-x11=/usr/Xorg |
| 13:53.28 | gioacchino | but it compile |
| 13:53.51 | gioacchino | mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
| 13:53.59 | gioacchino | I'm very studip!!! |
| 13:54.21 | ``Erik | nah, just not used to the perculiarities of automake |
| 13:54.21 | ``Erik | :) |
| 13:54.38 | ``Erik | that should be fixed, though |
| 13:54.51 | gioacchino | but ./configure --help isn't more clear |
| 13:55.49 | gioacchino | now I remake... |
| 13:56.35 | gioacchino | ADRT support wath do it ? |
| 13:57.33 | ``Erik | I'm sure you don't want adrt at this time... |
| 13:58.15 | gioacchino | ok |
| 13:58.37 | gioacchino | Java Developer Kit support wath is teh advantage ? |
| 13:58.43 | gioacchino | I'm a java programmer |
| 13:58.57 | ``Erik | um, it makes a JNI server thing for raytrace queries |
| 13:59.07 | gioacchino | I can create java program with 3d animation ? |
| 13:59.13 | ``Erik | so you can use librt from java, sorta kinda... |
| 13:59.17 | gioacchino | [15:58] <``Erik> um, it makes a JNI server thing for raytrace queries |
| 13:59.28 | gioacchino | now I don't nedd this ? |
| 13:59.48 | ``Erik | well, for USING the software, no... if you want to program in java using its libraries, maybe |
| 14:00.05 | ``Erik | um, look at src/librtserver for the JNI stuff, that's what the jdk thing enables |
| 14:01.47 | gioacchino | and how to fix |
| 14:01.53 | gioacchino | jove tutotrial ? |
| 14:01.59 | gioacchino | I not need it ? |
| 14:02.05 | gioacchino | and wath jove ? |
| 14:02.07 | ``Erik | no, y ou don't want jove stuff |
| 14:03.15 | ``Erik | in talking to the guy who wrote the java interface, there are several unreleased parts, so the jdk thing won't be useful unless y ou want to write the java infrastructure to support it... (if you do, send us a patch!) |
| 14:04.30 | gioacchino | ok |
| 14:04.40 | gioacchino | I study it |
| 14:04.54 | gioacchino | if I fix it I relase the patch |
| 14:05.00 | gioacchino | another question |
| 14:05.20 | gioacchino | because the makefile of jove is wrong on the official release ? |
| 14:05.55 | ``Erik | yeah, it's probably broken *shrug* none of the developers build jove |
| 14:06.33 | gioacchino | thand on the brl-cad istnt a manual to fix it.. |
| 14:06.37 | gioacchino | is very strange!! |
| 14:06.57 | gioacchino | thank's for helping |
| 14:07.12 | gioacchino | now I'm buildng the fixed configure |
| 14:07.43 | ``Erik | cool beans |
| 14:08.20 | gioacchino | wath a param to start it without asking of tipe of winodw ? |
| 14:08.33 | gioacchino | esample: mged -X |
| 14:08.40 | gioacchino | ot mged -ogl |
| 14:09.05 | ``Erik | if it's asking what type of window, that means you're passing it "-c" (or "-n"), and you don't want that |
| 14:09.21 | gioacchino | ok |
| 14:09.49 | gioacchino | I have maked the benchmark |
| 14:09.55 | gioacchino | my machine is very storng |
| 14:10.02 | ``Erik | how many vgr's? |
| 14:10.16 | gioacchino | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 5620 |
| 14:10.21 | gioacchino | I have |
| 14:12.34 | gioacchino | asus p5w dh deluxe + 1GB ram DDR2 800Mhz 4-4-2 + intel core 2 duo E6600 2*2,4GHz 8MB cache +nvidia En6600 silent 512MB ddr2 sse2 + linux kubuntu 7.04 |
| 14:12.44 | gioacchino | wath you bench ? |
| 14:13.34 | gioacchino | * wath's your benchmark ? |
| 14:13.36 | ``Erik | I d'no, lemme go build and run |
| 14:15.49 | gioacchino | you go fast ;) |
| 14:15.59 | gioacchino | the making process in long... |
| 14:17.01 | gioacchino | wath's your OS ? |
| 14:18.29 | ``Erik | bah, my copy is broken |
| 14:18.34 | ``Erik | I usually use FreeBSD and MacoSX |
| 14:18.49 | gioacchino | I use linux Kubuntu |
| 14:18.56 | gioacchino | I have only a problem.. |
| 14:19.29 | gioacchino | My remote remote controller(infrarend similar the TV) not work finly with my release of Linux |
| 14:22.18 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dyndsl-080-228-187-239.ewe-ip-backbone.de) | |
| 14:22.31 | gioacchino | but all the other work fine |
| 14:23.23 | gioacchino | can you trasfer to me some your brl work ? |
| 14:23.36 | gioacchino | I not need the .g file |
| 14:23.43 | gioacchino | only the image rended |
| 14:23.52 | gioacchino | I dont want modify it |
| 14:23.57 | gioacchino | I want only see |
| 14:25.12 | ``Erik | <-- coder, not a modeller.... there're renders of models on the sourceforge page... |
| 14:26.00 | gioacchino | hum ? |
| 14:26.12 | gioacchino | how to render with mged ?? |
| 14:27.25 | gioacchino | and how to save database.g ? |
| 14:30.00 | gioacchino | because on file menu' |
| 14:30.02 | gioacchino | is only |
| 14:30.07 | gioacchino | open and new |
| 14:30.09 | gioacchino | but no save |
| 14:30.45 | ``Erik | it's automatically saved |
| 14:31.46 | ``Erik | and for rendering, click "file", then "raytrace" |
| 14:32.09 | gioacchino | bvut when I reopen the file.g it is black.. |
| 14:32.17 | gioacchino | the file is void |
| 14:32.44 | ``Erik | to get the objects on the screen, you have to "e" them |
| 14:33.00 | ``Erik | like, if you called your object "foo.s", you have to do "e foo.s" in the command window |
| 14:33.10 | ``Erik | you can do "tops" to see the top level objects in the file |
| 14:36.37 | gioacchino | now I understand -n optio... |
| 14:37.05 | gioacchino | with -n it show the object aoutomatical |
| 14:38.38 | gioacchino | mmmmmmm |
| 14:38.47 | gioacchino | I tri to create the cup but not work... |
| 14:38.59 | gioacchino | on the view windows are black.. |
| 14:39.03 | gioacchino | how to see all ? |
| 14:42.00 | gioacchino | other problem |
| 14:42.24 | gioacchino | whuen I close mged from the x icon it not close close only the window |
| 14:42.31 | gioacchino | I must kill it from pid... |
| 14:43.49 | gioacchino | HOW TO SE ALL ? |
| 14:44.03 | gioacchino | e name.s to see a boject |
| 14:44.09 | gioacchino | how to see all object ? |
| 14:45.03 | ``Erik | e them all up |
| 14:45.14 | ``Erik | or group them all into one toplevel object and e that |
| 14:46.47 | gioacchino | mged>ethem all up ? |
| 14:46.57 | ``Erik | no |
| 14:47.23 | gioacchino | mged>e them all up ? |
| 14:48.05 | ``Erik | when I load up, say, ktank.g (in the examples directory) |
| 14:48.06 | ``Erik | mged> tops |
| 14:48.06 | ``Erik | _GLOBAL computer/ g17/ |
| 14:48.07 | ``Erik | air/ engine/ tank/ |
| 14:48.30 | ``Erik | so I would do mged> e computer g17 air engine tank |
| 14:48.57 | gioacchino | you must remember all name... |
| 14:49.08 | ``Erik | the "tops" command shows you the names |
| 14:50.19 | ``Erik | (a file is not a model, it's a database of models) |
| 14:50.38 | ``Erik | oh, and my vgr's... 22909 |
| 14:50.58 | gioacchino | heeeeeeeeeeee ??????? |
| 14:51.05 | gioacchino | wath your pc ???? |
| 14:51.08 | gioacchino | 8 processor ? |
| 14:51.34 | ``Erik | 8 core opteron |
| 14:51.41 | gioacchino | auz!!! |
| 14:52.05 | gioacchino | your is a workstation processor.. |
| 14:52.10 | ``Erik | I have 3 of those, two 4 core opterons, a 12 core itanium2 (altix), .... |
| 14:52.10 | gioacchino | my is a digital home pc |
| 14:52.17 | ``Erik | oh, I sit at a dual g5 mac |
| 14:52.32 | ``Erik | but I do all my work on other machines... *shrug* |
| 14:54.15 | gioacchino | how to move the image after rendering ? |
| 14:54.25 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 14:54.43 | gioacchino | before rendering I can move and rotare image |
| 14:54.57 | gioacchino | now after the rendering it is blocked... |
| 14:55.15 | ``Erik | well, you should see the wireframe moving... you can click "clear" in the raytrace window |
| 14:55.54 | gioacchino | error could not ezecute fbclear no such file or directori |
| 14:57.15 | gioacchino | but fbc clear is in teh brlcad/bin folder... |
| 14:57.23 | gioacchino | and the folder is in the path... |
| 14:57.35 | gioacchino | because it tell me no such file file ?? |
| 15:01.47 | gioacchino | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.00 | gioacchino | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.27 | gioacchino | How to fix this problem ??? |
| 15:12.51 | gioacchino | mged can't use the other program of suite |
| 15:13.00 | gioacchino | it tell no such file or directnry... |
| 15:13.14 | gioacchino | but the brl folder is in the $PATH |
| 15:15.24 | gioacchino | !help |
| 15:26.18 | gioacchino | i HAVE FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!1 |
| 15:26.29 | gioacchino | before the ecoprting $path |
| 15:26.40 | gioacchino | I have add a link to meged no usr bin folder!! |
| 15:26.48 | gioacchino | now I had remoe it and work!! |
| 15:43.33 | gioacchino | the broblem now is |
| 15:43.47 | gioacchino | when I clear it clear all not only rendering |
| 15:43.55 | gioacchino | and when i run |
| 15:44.02 | gioacchino | e name.s |
| 15:44.21 | gioacchino | i don't see anywhere... |
| 15:48.19 | *** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 15:48.50 | gioacchino | anybody online ? |
| 16:02.45 | gioacchino | how to save the rendered image in a image format ? |
| 16:02.47 | gioacchino | esample |
| 16:02.53 | gioacchino | png bmp jepg ecce cc |
| 16:05.30 | ``Erik | -o puts it in a pix file, then use like pix-png |
| 16:15.09 | gioacchino | mged>-o out_file_name.png ?? |
| 16:17.56 | ``Erik | rt -o blah.pix myfile.g obj1 obj2 ... |
| 16:18.05 | ``Erik | meh |
| 17:00.01 | *** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 17:23.50 | brlcad | gioacchino: turn the framebuffer off |
| 17:24.11 | brlcad | there's a checkbox on the raytrace control panel that will make the rendered image disappear |
| 17:36.17 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-220.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:56.55 | gioacchino | mm |
| 17:57.49 | gioacchino | ok |
| 17:57.51 | gioacchino | it work |
| 17:59.49 | gioacchino | brlcad: noe a question.. |
| 17:59.57 | gioacchino | if I run mged |
| 18:00.03 | gioacchino | from prompt it work |
| 18:00.30 | gioacchino | but if I run it from kde menu' it work but can't use the other suite tool |
| 18:04.36 | gioacchino | now I try to fix it adding the export path at all bashrc |
| 18:05.12 | IriX64 | can try cd /usr/brlcad/bin too then starting it |
| 18:05.33 | gioacchino | I ahave already try but not work... |
| 18:05.43 | gioacchino | I rejoin at 1 minutes |
| 18:05.46 | gioacchino | bye |
| 18:08.07 | *** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 18:09.48 | gioacchino | how to export the rendering in a imga? |
| 18:10.12 | gioacchino | es .bmp .png .jpg ecc ecc |
| 18:11.07 | gioacchino | not work.. |
| 18:11.14 | gioacchino | now I try witrh sh script... |
| 18:11.27 | gioacchino | to start brl from kde panel.. |
| 18:18.44 | IriX64 | mmm works with Xming now |
| 18:22.13 | IriX64 | forgot --prefix though, what the heck my windows now has a \usr dir :) |
| 18:22.53 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 18:25.45 | IriX64 | anybody wanna write a little directory utility, since quite obviously exec ls won';t work |
| 18:29.09 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 18:29.21 | smallfoot- | try system ls then |
| 18:31.23 | smallfoot- | system("ls"); |
| 18:31.33 | gioacchino | hello |
| 18:31.38 | IriX64 | there's no ls on windows smallfoot |
| 18:32.04 | IriX64 | mmmmm wait a sec |
| 18:32.29 | smallfoot- | system("dir"); //then :p |
| 18:32.42 | smallfoot- | though, the output is different |
| 18:38.42 | IriX64 | now have an ls but at what cost, 2 more dll'd come into play here sigh |
| 18:38.48 | IriX64 | dll's too |
| 18:40.27 | smallfoot- | :( |
| 18:40.35 | gioacchino | how to export in image extension (jpg, bmp,png,gif ecc ecc) a rendering? |
| 18:43.59 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/windowsside |
| 18:45.20 | IriX64 | gioacchino, try sending it out as a pix and use the conversion tools |
| 18:47.14 | gioacchino | wath the conversion tools ? is in the crl suite ? |
| 18:47.51 | IriX64 | should hacve file called pixtorle and stuff like that |
| 18:49.53 | gioacchino | pixtorle file_name.pix ? |
| 18:50.32 | IriX64 | if you run them without arguments they tell you how to use themselves :) |
| 18:51.16 | gioacchino | gioacchino@server:~$ pixtorle |
| 18:51.16 | gioacchino | bash: pixtorle: command not found |
| 18:51.45 | IriX64 | its in bin i think |
| 18:51.56 | gioacchino | I control on the folder.. |
| 18:52.18 | IriX64 | do an ls pix* |
| 18:52.19 | gioacchino | mmmmmmmmmm |
| 18:52.25 | gioacchino | pix-orle |
| 18:52.29 | gioacchino | not pixtorle |
| 18:52.33 | IriX64 | thats better |
| 18:52.47 | IriX64 | i sorta know :) |
| 18:53.02 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Fixed a memory leak in rtserver |
| 18:55.29 | gioacchino | but it generate file.rle |
| 18:55.39 | gioacchino | not .bmp , jpg gif ecc ecc |
| 18:56.35 | gioacchino | pix-png i try |
| 18:56.46 | IriX64 | thers a whole suite, i think one for each file type |
| 18:57.17 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos pick the windows side |
| 18:59.40 | ``Erik | don't use pix-orle, use pix-png |
| 18:59.55 | gioacchino | my pix pn not work... |
| 18:59.57 | ``Erik | pix-png -a file.pix > file.png |
| 19:00.20 | gioacchino | a��V�u�z�������!���9<.e)�����H�Z��ɒ�1E��Z�@������~`Տ�~���y�G<d�y�+P�l�裪� |
| 19:00.21 | gioacchino | it write tihs |
| 19:00.23 | ``Erik | yes, it outputs the png to stdout, cuz it's stupid |
| 19:00.30 | gioacchino | and not createfile.. |
| 19:00.31 | ``Erik | redirect into a file, like I just showed you |
| 19:00.46 | gioacchino | ok |
| 19:00.58 | ``Erik | (that's on my short hit-list of things to fix) |
| 19:00.59 | IriX64 | thanks ``Erik |
| 19:01.23 | gioacchino | gioacchino@server:~$ pix-png -a prova.pix > prova.png |
| 19:01.23 | gioacchino | pix-png: unable to autosize |
| 19:01.24 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:01.58 | ``Erik | I mean, um, normalize the interface set to a synergistic uniform something something BUZZWORD BINGO |
| 19:02.11 | gioacchino | the outpout isn't a sphere... |
| 19:02.32 | ``Erik | "unable to autosize"? hum, take away the -a and see if it works? how big is the file? O.o |
| 19:03.16 | ``Erik | pix-png kinda expects a square file with the edges being a power of two iirc (256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024...) |
| 19:03.54 | gioacchino | it not tell me anithing but the result is not a sphere is a confuse image I try with a new render... |
| 19:04.16 | IriX64 | like rt -s 512 ``Erik? |
| 19:04.38 | gioacchino | not work... |
| 19:04.55 | gioacchino | it genereted a bad confused image... |
| 19:05.25 | smallfoot- | IriX64: http://rafb.net/p/emOqx494.html |
| 19:05.57 | smallfoot- | IriX64, i found this code on the internets it can list files in the direcotry and stuff like that what you said its like "ls" or "dir" |
| 19:06.30 | brlcad | IriX64: a cd to whatever path only works when "." is in your path (which it should not be for various reasons) .. better to just type the full path if you want to be sure (e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged) |
| 19:07.05 | brlcad | gioacchino: to export a rendered image, you raytrace to a .pix file, and then use one of the pix-* converters (e.g. pix-png file.pix > file.png) |
| 19:07.21 | gioacchino | yes I use this mecanism... |
| 19:07.27 | gioacchino | but it generated |
| 19:07.34 | gioacchino | bud confused image... |
| 19:07.52 | brlcad | pix are raw image files |
| 19:08.01 | brlcad | so if it's not a 512x512 image, you MUST specify the image dimensions |
| 19:08.37 | brlcad | -a if you use standard sizes, but I imagine you used the raytrace control panel |
| 19:08.44 | brlcad | which will be whatever size your window was |
| 19:08.54 | gioacchino | yes I use raytrace control panel |
| 19:09.06 | brlcad | you see the size in the raytrace control panel? |
| 19:09.27 | gioacchino | yes |
| 19:09.30 | gioacchino | now work! |
| 19:09.32 | gioacchino | tanks |
| 19:09.37 | brlcad | type just 'pix-png' with no arguments and you'll see: |
| 19:09.38 | brlcad | Usage: pix-png [-a] [-w file_width] [-n file_height] [-s square_file_size] [file.pix] |
| 19:09.58 | brlcad | so pix-png -w WIDTH -n HEIGHT file.pix > file.png |
| 19:10.01 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:10.06 | ``Erik | s/^ // |
| 19:11.56 | gioacchino | brlcad: hot to obtain more quality ?? |
| 19:12.03 | gioacchino | I use max resolutio |
| 19:12.06 | gioacchino | 1024*1024 |
| 19:12.16 | gioacchino | but I want more quality |
| 19:12.33 | brlcad | gioacchino: run rt directly on the mged command line |
| 19:12.50 | brlcad | rt -s2345 -o somefile.pix |
| 19:12.58 | brlcad | that will make a 2345x2345 image |
| 19:13.02 | brlcad | saved to somefile.pix |
| 19:13.07 | gioacchino | this is the max ? |
| 19:13.11 | brlcad | noo |
| 19:13.17 | gioacchino | ok |
| 19:13.19 | brlcad | s/2345/whatever you want/ |
| 19:13.22 | gioacchino | ok |
| 19:13.37 | brlcad | might not like going over 16000 .. been a while since I tested the upper limit |
| 19:13.40 | gioacchino | I must run rt form mged>terminal... |
| 19:13.51 | brlcad | you don't have to run rt from mged prompt |
| 19:13.54 | brlcad | you can run it outside |
| 19:14.01 | brlcad | but then you need to specify what view you want |
| 19:15.42 | gioacchino[away] | tanks |
| 19:15.53 | gioacchino[away] | I go ate |
| 19:15.54 | brlcad | cierto |
| 19:16.01 | brlcad | ciao |
| 19:16.11 | gioacchino[away] | sei italiano ? |
| 19:16.16 | brlcad | un po |
| 19:16.20 | gioacchino[away] | vado a cena :) |
| 19:16.24 | gioacchino[away] | che piacere!! |
| 19:16.35 | gioacchino[away] | comuqneu ora mi allontano torno dopo |
| 19:16.39 | brlcad | igualmente |
| 19:18.05 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.11 | IriX64 | smallfoot thankyou, had to call scanit scanit2 though scanit already exists :) |
| 19:18.40 | IriX64 | let me drop it in and try.. |
| 19:19.19 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: Add the TK cpp flags to the if_tk compile |
| 19:20.03 | CIA-22 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: PhotoPutBlock seems to take the interpreter as the first arg now? |
| 19:21.52 | IriX64 | mged> exec opendir |
| 19:21.52 | IriX64 | Error: usage: opendir dirname |
| 19:21.52 | IriX64 | child process exited abnormally |
| 19:21.53 | IriX64 | mged> |
| 19:22.07 | IriX64 | heh thanks |
| 19:22.45 | IriX64 | should have used pastebin, forgive. |
| 19:25.50 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos <--- the windows side is of interest |
| 19:28.19 | brlcad | IriX64: is the exec opendir supposed to convey something? |
| 19:28.58 | brlcad | that's an external tool, and probably one you wouldn't want/need to run from mged at that |
| 19:31.11 | brlcad | ``Erik: hey, you wanna take a stab at the tcl/tk upgrade? |
| 19:31.35 | brlcad | a6 just came out a few days ago, massive aqua tk fixes |
| 19:32.10 | brlcad | best to pull from cvs though, according to daniel (aqua tk dev), to pick up a build bug fix |
| 19:32.16 | ``Erik | heh, uh, no? :D |
| 19:32.31 | brlcad | fair nuff |
| 19:32.37 | ``Erik | I just want the damn thing to build... I have linux chased down to a runtime link error in db/ |
| 19:33.05 | ``Erik | fbsd has a multiple definition error for tk_close in bwish |
| 19:33.05 | brlcad | you have build issues? I've got good builds everywhere |
| 19:33.10 | brlcad | oh, i hadn't tested tim's latest stuff |
| 19:33.19 | ``Erik | I have breakage on leenewx and fbsd, jra reported issue on linux |
| 19:33.28 | ``Erik | tim's fault? got a tar arn I can borrow? |
| 19:34.07 | brlcad | he removed the tcl/tk --disable-shared from their configure, causes a variety of tcl/tk symbols on a couple plats |
| 19:34.21 | brlcad | that's probably the tk_close issue |
| 19:34.40 | ``Erik | and he's awfully idle |
| 19:34.42 | brlcad | s/symbols/duplicate symbols/ |
| 19:35.17 | ``Erik | oh, I made an obsd 7.10.0 build for clock (without brep) |
| 19:35.28 | clock_ | ``Erik: how? |
| 19:40.11 | smallfoot- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A |
| 19:40.59 | smallfoot- | IriX64, that program in pastebin dont work? |
| 20:07.24 | IriX64 | smallfoot: it works fine thanks, that abnormal exit is due to mged i think |
| 20:07.32 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 20:07.50 | IriX64 | err wait |
| 20:09.41 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/2eYE1B66.html |
| 20:09.52 | IriX64 | not quite sure whats going on here |
| 20:09.55 | *** join/#brlcad menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) | |
| 20:11.14 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/5IexEY90.html |
| 20:11.26 | IriX64 | works thanks for your contribution :) |
| 20:11.53 | IriX64 | why two passes? |
| 20:14.46 | ``Erik | what's "opendir"? you have an "opendir.exe" file? O.o |
| 20:15.49 | IriX64 | smallfoots contribution to the effort. |
| 20:15.59 | ``Erik | oookie, :) |
| 20:16.31 | *** part/#brlcad menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) | |
| 20:16.33 | IriX64 | works |
| 20:18.28 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/YSKJp738.html <---- smallfoot lets have a belly laff :) |
| 20:19.00 | IriX64 | thats the way it should always be with dos :) |
| 20:20.13 | IriX64 | if you set your path right, you can exec anything on the system. |
| 20:20.36 | smallfoot- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqLvBUSJucg&mode=related&search= |
| 20:20.57 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 20:22.00 | IriX64 | :) |
| 20:23.51 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/KmYWpf81.html <--- works smallfoot |
| 20:24.51 | IriX64 | smallfoot if i ever give this stuff out may i include your exe? |
| 20:30.05 | smallfoot- | it wasntmy exe |
| 20:30.08 | smallfoot- | i found that on google lol |
| 20:30.27 | IriX64 | ;) thankyou for finding it |
| 20:30.30 | smallfoot- | np |
| 20:30.45 | smallfoot- | actually, i tried some code todo an own, but it wouldnt work, so i was like argh, and googled instead lol |
| 20:30.59 | smallfoot- | so if you release it, then clean it up, obscure it, and change the names of variables, and style and stuff like that lol :p |
| 20:31.24 | IriX64 | you found it it's yours :) |
| 20:31.28 | smallfoot- | hehe |
| 20:31.37 | smallfoot- | yeah, i found it, because you wanted it |
| 20:31.39 | smallfoot- | but its really simple code |
| 20:31.54 | IriX64 | i know but i'm lazy |
| 20:32.14 | ``Erik | O.o stealin' code ain't cool |
| 20:32.34 | IriX64 | was going to modify a disk scanner program but this is better |
| 20:33.33 | IriX64 | going to include ls too thought what the hay 2 dll's |
| 20:35.56 | IriX64 | if it's on google, it's not stealin ``Erik |
| 20:35.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:35.57 | ``Erik | that's like saying that copying something out of the library and claiming you wrote it isn't plaigerism |
| 20:36.05 | IriX64 | who's gonna claim they wrote it i'll gladly give proper credit |
| 20:36.07 | ``Erik | almost all my code is open source, on the internet, findable by google... but I still hold the copyright and get highly upset when people "change some variables" and claim they wrote it *shrug* |
| 20:36.07 | IriX64 | and distribute source if they allow it |
| 20:36.08 | ``Erik | and I've had tht happen to my software before... |
| 20:36.19 | smallfoot- | its not stealing code, its reusing code :p |
| 20:36.26 | smallfoot- | its like 10 lines of code or what? |
| 20:36.38 | smallfoot- | and its all call to standard functions, its like the only way todo it |
| 20:36.42 | IriX64 | changed nothing but what was needed to make it work here, still does and always will 2 pasess |
| 20:36.42 | ``Erik | on the flip side, my code has been incorporated into neat stuff like "icecast" and a "electronic picture" device, they credited me, and it's totally awesome that people are using my code |
| 20:37.18 | IriX64 | ty |
| 20:37.23 | ``Erik | if'n ya find code, it doesn't matter how trivial it is, respect the license and copyright o.O |
| 20:37.38 | IriX64 | of course, I always try to |
| 20:38.06 | ``Erik | <-- mostly going off because of "04:30PM <smallfoot-> so if you release it, then clean it up, obscure it, and change the names of variables, and style and stuff like that lol :p" |
| 20:38.55 | IriX64 | I understand ``Erik. |
| 20:40.35 | IriX64 | how did i get two copies of mged up? :) |
| 20:41.00 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 20:41.04 | smallfoot- | aff, got disconnected |
| 20:41.10 | ``Erik | guess you could run it twice, but may get fb conflicts? why would you want to? O.o |
| 20:41.21 | smallfoot- | one time i wrote a database engine, that i based of hello_world.c and SCO sued me :( |
| 20:42.08 | ``Erik | sco'll be delisted soon, then they'll just disappear O.o |
| 20:42.15 | ``Erik | post-love caldera really sucks monkey balls |
| 20:42.15 | brlcad | you can run multiple mged's concern-free -- fb's are allocated sequentially |
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| 21:17.57 | IriX64 | it was an accident :) |
| 21:24.23 | IriX64 | if_tk.c in libfb (tk_close) conflicts with same in dm-tk.c in libdm |
| 21:24.35 | IriX64 | . |
| 21:26.38 | IriX64 | renamed mine in libfb to tkk_close just to get a compile, looks happy so far. |
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| 22:25.01 | IriX64 | just what in samhill is ssampview.exe? |
| 22:25.28 | IriX64 | in src/rttherm |
| 22:25.55 | *** join/#brlcad dli_ (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-061.uchicago.edu) | |
| 22:33.39 | ``Erik | viewer for ssamp files |
| 22:34.05 | ``Erik | man rttherm |
| 22:51.23 | IriX64 | ty |
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| 00:51.33 | smallfoot | http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3686/psakittymk8.jpg |
| 01:01.34 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (windowsside albumn) It built |
| 01:02.46 | IriX64 | ``Erik, I can't view ssamp files but all the other stuff built. |
| 01:14.23 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-3-5.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 01:18.15 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/L7Jsii75.html <--- something I think I found |
| 02:06.54 | dli | IriX64, any idea for the " libtcl8.5.so not found" during building? |
| 02:13.54 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096670060.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:15.54 | ``Erik | run "make install", it'll continue the build :/ |
| 02:18.41 | dli | ``Erik, you sure? |
| 02:24.08 | dli | ``Erik, you mean run "make" again? |
| 02:24.48 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669215.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:28.08 | brlcad | nifty |
| 03:08.39 | IriX64 | dli i compiled static, that worked. |
| 03:09.40 | IriX64 | i.e. --disable-shared on the configure line |
| 03:11.26 | ``Erik | dli: I mean make install... it's complaining that ti can't find libtcl8.5.so in the link path... install will put it there, so it can continue... install infers all |
| 03:12.54 | dli | ``Erik, no, it's an error during "make" not "make install" |
| 03:13.11 | IriX64 | dli he's trying to fix your problem, just do it and see |
| 03:13.12 | ``Erik | yes... I know... and I'm telling you... install will work around it |
| 03:14.27 | dli | ``Erik, just ignore the "make" error, and go ahead with "make install", is that what you say? |
| 03:14.44 | ``Erik | yes... just "make" by itself is technically unnecessary if you intend to install... |
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| 03:19.58 | *** part/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-69-250-163-197.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 03:26.34 | IriX64 | ``Erik, I don't know why but on my system at least, taking ssampview.exe (meaning the building of it) allows a successfull compile of the whole thing. Any ideas? |
| 03:28.12 | IriX64 | err taking it out |
| 03:29.09 | IriX64 | now i need a new makefile.am, thank God for cvs :) |
| 03:32.39 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 03:33.29 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/466829 <--- something wrong with your elapsed installation time meter, I haven't been here two hours :) |
| 03:40.44 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/466834 <--- this sort of thing make my day, thanks for the great program. |
| 03:43.28 | IriX64 | looks pretty too |
| 03:46.59 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos work albumn, first pix |
| 03:51.15 | ``Erik | IriX64: check out the -p option to rt |
| 03:54.57 | dli | ``Erik, "make install" fails with the same error: /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 04:03.43 | IriX64 | heh want me to pastebin the shot :) |
| 04:06.42 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/466851 <-- I added that message about mapsize. |
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| 05:31.46 | IriX64 | I attached to tk, problem is i don't know tk :) |
| 05:43.18 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (work albumn) caught in mid trace |
| 05:46.11 | smallfoot- | http://openclipart.org/people/Frap/Frap_Freedom_flag.svg the HD-DVD processing key is embedded in the image, as color codes on the flag |
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| 11:34.15 | Caps_Lock | morning everybody, :) |
| 11:36.21 | Caps_Lock | ? |
| 11:36.44 | Caps_Lock | nobody talk here ?/ |
| 11:36.53 | Caps_Lock | uf . |
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| 14:24.25 | ``Erik | *grouse* yet more breakage from tim's updates O.o |
| 14:35.40 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 15:16.47 | ``Erik | hrm? |
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| 16:03.37 | elite01 | huh? brlcad 7.10 doesn't build, gives me "*** No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'. Stop." |
| 16:03.41 | elite01 | any fix for that? |
| 16:03.50 | elite01 | 7.8.something built just fine |
| 16:15.04 | gioacchinoschool | yes you can fix |
| 16:15.05 | gioacchinoschool | easy |
| 16:15.14 | gioacchinoschool | after you run ./configure |
| 16:15.34 | gioacchinoschool | go in brlcad 7.10/source/other/jove |
| 16:16.22 | gioacchinoschool | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2459375 |
| 16:16.28 | elite01 | thanks |
| 16:17.50 | ``Erik | or, uh |
| 16:17.53 | ``Erik | --disable-jove-build |
| 16:17.54 | ``Erik | ... |
| 16:18.19 | ``Erik | y'know... like the help says |
| 16:18.20 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 16:18.53 | elite01 | help? where's help? |
| 16:19.04 | ``Erik | ./configure --help |
| 16:19.06 | gioacchinoschool | mm |
| 16:19.10 | gioacchinoschool | elite01: |
| 16:19.22 | gioacchinoschool | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2459375 this is the solution |
| 16:20.12 | ``Erik | it's not a solution, it's a hack that could result in other breakage |
| 16:20.26 | gioacchinoschool | ok |
| 16:21.03 | gioacchinoschool | but with --disable-jove-build it not have the jove tool |
| 16:21.24 | ``Erik | you don't want the jove tool |
| 16:21.36 | ``Erik | it's an ancient crappy emacs clone |
| 16:22.01 | gioacchino | ok you are right... |
| 16:22.06 | elite01 | uhm fine |
| 16:22.16 | elite01 | but why was it changed from 7.8? |
| 16:22.37 | gioacchino | elite01: use ./configure --enable-optimize --disable-jove-build |
| 16:23.35 | elite01 | not even --enable-optimize by default? scary |
| 16:23.38 | ``Erik | the jove makefile.am was cleaned up, but a mistake was made... it's been fixed in HEAD |
| 16:23.53 | elite01 | ah |
| 16:24.39 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am?view=log |
| 16:25.40 | elite01 | hmkay |
| 16:33.17 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 16:38.18 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/467609 <----- not a show stopper but still... |
| 16:38.47 | ``Erik | :> |
| 16:39.13 | IriX64 | grouse.... yum :) |
| 16:59.06 | IriX64 | photon torpedos away, yay :) |
| 17:00.29 | brlcad | also not much to be done about it, tcl/tk problems are issues in their build system |
| 17:00.53 | IriX64 | i know i had the same issue trying to build system libs from those guys |
| 17:01.00 | brlcad | best to report to them if you want to see it fixed.. probably a windows-specific issue with the :: in the filename |
| 17:01.13 | IriX64 | could be |
| 17:02.24 | IriX64 | darn that feels good, love to watch work work |
| 17:04.18 | ``Erik | so the fix is obvious... quit using windows :D |
| 17:04.37 | IriX64 | heh smokers fix, quit breathing ;) |
| 17:05.47 | IriX64 | now... if i do a cvs update what's going to happen |
| 17:06.27 | ``Erik | spectacular explosions, flaming case debris raining down, and possibily the creation of a mini-blackhole that'll suck the entire planet into it |
| 17:09.41 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (work albumn) |
| 17:10.17 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 17:11.14 | IriX64 | there |
| 17:12.12 | IriX64 | btw thats with Xming |
| 17:12.50 | IriX64 | gonna transplant this thing right now |
| 17:14.48 | IriX64 | if it works the windowsside albumn is going to take a photon hit :) |
| 17:21.37 | *** join/#brlcad cad53 (n=c84c69e1@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 17:34.00 | IriX64 | emmiting photon torpedos :) |
| 17:34.21 | IriX64 | and yes exec ls works |
| 17:38.15 | IriX64 | guess i could put xming startup in the bat file too |
| 17:43.37 | IriX64 | windowsside albumn, first Pix. |
| 18:06.26 | IriX64 | haha Xming setup by colin harrison, wonder if he'll mind |
| 18:08.32 | IriX64 | urmf my directory tho is 7.10.0 think anybody will mind? |
| 18:14.56 | IriX64 | haha ``Erik, tell me to zip it :) |
| 18:17.13 | ``Erik | uh.. .ok... zip it... O.o |
| 18:17.35 | IriX64 | now it'll be ready for distrobution :) |
| 18:17.45 | IriX64 | err distribution |
| 18:18.33 | IriX64 | gonna be huge though |
| 18:18.48 | IriX64 | everythings linked static |
| 18:23.12 | IriX64 | where do I put it, all the public ftp servers i used in the past are gone. |
| 18:24.10 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-220.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:27.25 | ``Erik | upload it somewhere on C:\, then everyone who wants it can get it |
| 18:27.26 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 18:27.27 | ``Erik | :> |
| 18:29.33 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:29.45 | IriX64 | looking at box.net right now |
| 18:30.34 | IriX64 | do I need permission to upload it to your server? |
| 18:33.19 | IriX64 | errr mea culpa :( |
| 18:59.37 | IriX64 | 930,557kb |
| 18:59.44 | IriX64 | zipped |
| 19:01.13 | IriX64 | err 930,667 |
| 19:01.39 | IriX64 | that equates to what, an 8 hour xfer? |
| 19:06.31 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 19:08.55 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the windowsside albumn again |
| 19:30.25 | ``Erik | that equates to a cd and a half... figure out how to make dll's :) |
| 19:34.16 | IriX64 | rt.dll :) |
| 19:37.57 | IriX64 | my dll's are roughly 64k each you guys are the hogs :) |
| 19:38.54 | dtidrow_work | http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/41819/8800_Ultra_SLI.jpg - if you absolutely, positively have to have the biggest hammer on the block..... |
| 19:39.51 | brlcad | so that's the 1GB zip file I saw in the ftp upload dir a month ago.... |
| 19:40.08 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: pretty! |
| 19:40.17 | dtidrow_work | and pricey! |
| 19:40.21 | IriX64 | earlier attempt |
| 19:40.33 | dtidrow_work | ~$850 each |
| 19:40.52 | brlcad | ah, chump change :) |
| 19:41.17 | dtidrow_work | well, yeah, if work's paying for them... |
| 19:41.57 | dtidrow_work | http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_41819.html - parent article |
| 19:42.35 | ``Erik | was that the one on smacksnot earlier? |
| 19:42.56 | dtidrow_work | could be, I haven't looked at ./ recently |
| 19:43.12 | dtidrow_work | err, /. |
| 19:55.12 | ``Erik | http://www.flickr.com/photos/stshores24/sets/72157594507045243 |
| 20:03.56 | IriX64 | your'e welcome to them, they're rusty anyway :) |
| 20:04.37 | IriX64 | check the windowsside (should properly name it the darside but...) |
| 20:04.45 | IriX64 | err darkside |
| 21:22.51 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 21:51.40 | IriX64 | all that and i still can't produce a mug :) |
| 21:54.08 | IriX64 | ah well maybe cvs has a mug now :) |
| 21:56.05 | IriX64 | maybe package cvs.exe in there too, after all you've got cygwin1.dll |
| 21:56.09 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:59.46 | IriX64 | conflicts in if_tk.c |
| 21:59.49 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 00:47.09 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/468307 <--- if_tk.c the conflict :) |
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| 00:50.44 | IriX64 | maybe those should be reversed? |
| 00:51.13 | IriX64 | >= |
| 00:52.33 | IriX64 | had it right the first time |
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| 07:39.13 | clock_ | brlcad: BRL-CAD can do extruded bitmaps, e. g. I supply an array of white and black pixels and it puts a column in place of each pixel, am I right? |
| 07:45.08 | clock_ | 00538 #define ID_SUBMODEL 28 /**< @brief Instanced submodel */ |
| 07:45.21 | clock_ | What is instanced submodel? Is it possible to include other files into my model? |
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| 10:45.46 | clock_ | brlcad: with the screws the rendering is now very slow. Is the alrogithm for the space representation efficient? |
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| 12:14.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: adapt the for loop variables to not standard conform compilers |
| 12:17.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: PNG images |
| 12:24.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): |
| 12:24.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: generate define instructions from include/conf |
| 12:24.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: to be used in Win32-DLL resource file |
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| 19:20.06 | brlcad | clock_: you are right, there's an "ebm" primitive (extruded bitmap) .. in that image with all of the primitives listed, the "BRL-CAD" title in the bottom right is an ebm |
| 19:20.27 | brlcad | a submodel is a means to refer to geometry in other files |
| 19:20.30 | clock_ | brlcad: and the ebm does it have jagged edges like a staircase? |
| 19:20.49 | brlcad | yep |
| 19:20.55 | ``Erik | since it's an extrusion of a raster image, of course... |
| 19:21.05 | clock_ | and non-jagged edges can be done with extruded sketch? |
| 19:21.08 | brlcad | though you can make the edges rather tiny with a high res image |
| 19:21.21 | brlcad | yes, sketch would give you proper curves |
| 19:21.22 | clock_ | brlcad: but the shading will be still made from 2 colours |
| 19:21.32 | clock_ | brlcad: is there a way to convert SVG or PS into a sketch? |
| 19:21.50 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/ebm.png |
| 19:21.59 | brlcad | made from http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/ebmtitle.png |
| 19:22.34 | clock_ | brlcad: how are the shade levels treated? |
| 19:22.50 | brlcad | shade levels? |
| 19:23.01 | brlcad | it's makes actual geometry |
| 19:23.07 | ``Erik | um, I think he means on the source image |
| 19:23.17 | clock_ | yes on the source image |
| 19:23.34 | ``Erik | it's a heighmap, right? so the color relates to the height of the solid at that position? |
| 19:23.42 | ``Erik | (am I guessin' wrong? :) |
| 19:31.20 | brlcad | there are three primitives that take data in a raw grided/raster form, the dsp, the ebm, and the vol |
| 19:32.09 | brlcad | dsp takes short value data (0-65536) that translates to differing height values on the geometry it represents |
| 19:33.05 | clock_ | 0-65536 and not 0-65535? |
| 19:34.36 | brlcad | er, yeah, sorry |
| 19:34.59 | clock_ | brlcad: have you ever programmed in assembler? |
| 19:35.02 | brlcad | the ebm takes bw data (0-255) that translates to differing height values |
| 19:35.42 | brlcad | vol takes bw data and a range of intensities that represent geometry it should create |
| 19:36.02 | brlcad | clock_: yes, quite a bit -- though predominantly mips, not x86 |
| 19:36.15 | brlcad | and was many moons ago now |
| 19:37.13 | ``Erik | which mips? only mips I did was r2k :( long long ago |
| 19:37.50 | ``Erik | <-- mostly 65xx and 68xx asm :) more x86 than mips tho |
| 19:38.12 | clock_ | brlcad: saying 0-65536 that's like stepping on the gas instead of break in automobile :) |
| 19:39.23 | brlcad | hm, I think it was actually MIPS IV or MIPS32, forget |
| 19:39.33 | ``Erik | skewl days? |
| 19:39.47 | brlcad | some, a lot then too |
| 19:40.04 | brlcad | fundamentals of computer architecture went into quite a bit |
| 19:40.12 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 19:40.23 | ``Erik | you might even have the same big beige book I do for that class heh :) |
| 19:41.24 | brlcad | good stuff: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~larus/spim.html |
| 19:41.39 | ``Erik | heh, that's the r2k I used... *cougH* O:-) |
| 19:51.29 | IriX64 | why simulate get the real thing :) |
| 19:51.45 | ``Erik | um, college students don't have a lot of bling? |
| 19:52.20 | IriX64 | heh get a job :) |
| 19:52.42 | ``Erik | heh, I had one at the time, I was still po'... the job mostly went to paying books and tuition :) |
| 19:53.12 | ``Erik | (and these days, I'm busy paying off my house and car, so'z I don't buy much hw) |
| 19:55.03 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (windowsside albumn) this took a while:) |
| 19:56.48 | IriX64 | mmm no libpython2.5.a ... ok ill forgo adrt |
| 19:57.28 | IriX64 | thats me right? |
| 19:58.10 | IriX64 | wonder how long ago it stopped compiling :) |
| 20:00.02 | IriX64 | house and car... luxieries :) |
| 20:00.10 | IriX64 | sp? |
| 20:06.01 | IriX64 | heh my funky build is installing. |
| 20:07.06 | IriX64 | deleted /adrt and it built ;) |
| 20:24.56 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/469590 <--- this is where it is right now |
| 20:25.28 | IriX64 | sorry ``Erik another of my inconsequential pastes :) |
| 20:28.55 | IriX64 | gotta re-vist ssampvie.exe later. |
| 20:29.06 | IriX64 | err ssampview.exe |
| 20:36.32 | IriX64 | haha compilation 11 sweet |
| 20:39.14 | IriX64 | when does the compilation number get reset? or does it ever? |
| 20:41.18 | IriX64 | it works with Xming. |
| 20:45.15 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside albumn (I'll stop doing this now you guys have seen it) |
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| 21:28.26 | smallfoot- | XML Parsing Error: syntax error |
| 21:28.41 | smallfoot- | that site dont work in Minefield (Firefox 3.0 alpha) |
| 21:30.46 | bjorkBSD | small wonder smallfoot ;) |
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| 23:27.19 | louipc | hmm |
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| 23:45.31 | brlcad | IriX64: I'll try to give it a test later this evening, thanks |
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| 23:45.59 | brlcad | does it require anything else (like an X11 server?) |
| 00:27.04 | IriX64 | x11 server of a sorts is included as an installer archive(Xwin32) but it's commercial, sorta works, but i'm leaning to Xming, free and works better |
| 00:28.54 | IriX64 | remember it's 7.8.4 |
| 00:32.35 | IriX64 | http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ Xming can be had here. should work better |
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| 01:14.23 | IriX64 | no ls in that one though ;) |
| 01:21.52 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 01:23.05 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside |
| 02:00.29 | brlcad | aww, 7.8.4 is not useful.. :) |
| 02:38.20 | brlcad | should get 7.10 to work... 7.8 is history |
| 02:43.55 | IriX64 | working on that now:) |
| 02:44.09 | brlcad | cool |
| 02:45.00 | IriX64 | thanks... for looking at it |
| 02:46.06 | IriX64 | 7.10 is quite a bit bigger... almost 1gig zip file |
| 03:40.50 | IriX64 | see why i don't want commit access, I shot my big toe off again :) |
| 04:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 04:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: revert the stashing of COPYING and INSTALL into memory due to issues with a |
| 04:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: handful of shells/environments where it would cause unpredictable shell |
| 04:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: behavior. instead, save backup files as needed (recursively). additional |
| 04:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: awesomeness, set up trap signal handlers to clean up regardless of how/when |
| 04:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: autogen.sh terminates or is otherwise aborted. |
| 04:43.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: update to a6, verify auto_path code more thoroughly |
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| 07:19.51 | Rangar_ | Mal, Erik.. either of you around to fix ops in #gl? |
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| 12:56.06 | brlcad | should be soon |
| 13:04.18 | Rangar | thanks |
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| 14:35.55 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: according to report from jra, BRLCAD_DATA is still getting set to NONE for his case, so rework the prefix settings once again to make sure there's a double eval on prefix and datadir before setting the AC_DEFINE's |
| 14:36.43 | clock_ | brlcad: even when a tiny screw is in the scene, the whole rendering gets many times slower |
| 14:36.56 | clock_ | brlcad: I am already compiling the Ronja for about a week... |
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| 15:14.07 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: converters abort early on corrupted input geometry and a memory link in librtserver was fixed, both courtesy mister anderson |
| 15:18.44 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/.cvsignore: ignore iges binary |
| 15:47.19 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oop, typo -- should be bc_data_dir var being checked |
| 15:52.03 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: how the.. |
| 16:24.24 | IriX64 | ty :) |
| 16:44.07 | gioacchino | brlcad: ci sei ? |
| 18:03.17 | brlcad | gioacchino: sempre |
| 18:15.08 | gioacchino | heeheehehee |
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| 20:50.22 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: flesh out extraction methods using iges spec. |
| 20:52.49 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: implement methods needed for parameter handling and extraction code |
| 20:54.26 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: consolidate brep handling into one class (since the elements are interdependent) |
| 20:56.27 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: comment things out temporarily to get it to compile |
| 20:58.18 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add brlcad_brep.cpp to source list |
| 21:50.56 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: clean up after all backup files, starting from the source root |
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| 22:00.36 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: figured out why it's so big, forgot to do --disable-shared. |
| 22:05.38 | MinstrelGypsy | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside terra.g :) |
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| 22:36.11 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: there is no brlcad.hpp |
| 22:36.55 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: there is no brlcad_brep.cpp |
| 22:39.16 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: remove EXTRA_PROGRAMS too on prodclean |
| 22:42.30 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: do not build the 'iges' binary being developed by default at all, can still be built directly with 'make iges' |
| 00:36.08 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh: credit authorship on our script |
| 01:06.33 | MinstrelGypsy | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windows side "RodStewart" :) |
| 02:27.11 | MinstrelGypsy | ``Erik once told me to lay off the wall candy, I'll try to abide by his wishes.... but Jesus, it's hard :) |
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| 02:43.49 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/471719 <----brlcad-7.10.1 now joins the ranks of Cygwin ports. |
| 02:46.04 | MinstrelGypsy | all i've got to say is thank God for tkUnixDefault.h :) |
| 02:52.47 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: did you get to try that Xming thing? |
| 03:02.19 | brlcad | you said it was 7.8.4 ... |
| 03:02.42 | brlcad | ... that sort of defeats the purpose of testing it quite a bit :/ |
| 03:04.57 | MinstrelGypsy | that one was this one isn'r but if xming works for youu with that one it should with this one:) |
| 03:05.20 | MinstrelGypsy | im currently testing with Xming. |
| 03:05.37 | MinstrelGypsy | Rod Stewart was done with Xming |
| 03:15.48 | *** join/#brlcad christanov (n=nestor@201.238.161.169) | |
| 03:17.41 | christanov | how I can to execute it? |
| 03:17.58 | christanov | i am a new user for it |
| 03:18.26 | christanov | help |
| 03:19.18 | MinstrelGypsy | is it installed yet? |
| 03:19.23 | christanov | yes |
| 03:19.43 | MinstrelGypsy | set your path to brlcad/bin and execute mged |
| 03:20.23 | MinstrelGypsy | err /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 03:22.00 | christanov | thanks |
| 03:22.10 | MinstrelGypsy | read the documentation on getting started and then the tutorials would be a good bet, all pdf documents at http://brlcad.org |
| 03:22.17 | MinstrelGypsy | welcome |
| 03:22.57 | christanov | it is a good cad brl |
| 03:23.06 | MinstrelGypsy | very |
| 03:24.13 | christanov | what is the better cad |
| 03:24.16 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 03:25.07 | MinstrelGypsy | depends what you want to do |
| 03:26.52 | christanov | objects design |
| 03:27.25 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad iks very good for modeling solid objects |
| 03:27.28 | MinstrelGypsy | is too |
| 03:28.13 | MinstrelGypsy | look at http://brlcad.org screen shots and images |
| 03:30.35 | MinstrelGypsy | bbl8r if you have more questions I'm sure someone will help you out |
| 03:51.50 | *** part/#brlcad christanov (n=nestor@201.238.161.169) | |
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| 11:45.58 | gioacchino | hello all |
| 11:47.16 | gioacchino | how to create a cono ? |
| 11:47.42 | gioacchino | *cone |
| 11:48.00 | gioacchino | becuse I found on the manual onli truncated cone |
| 11:49.42 | elite01_ | a cone is a special case of a truncated cone :) |
| 11:59.02 | gioacchino | in cone tgc XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
| 12:00.37 | gioacchino | xxxxxxxx= ? |
| 12:26.26 | elite01_ | no idea, it does ask for the values |
| 12:58.44 | gioacchino | brlcad: hoe to create a cone ?? |
| 13:34.59 | brlcad | make an rcc |
| 13:35.27 | brlcad | "right circular cylinder" |
| 13:35.45 | brlcad | or a truncated general cone (tgc), but the parameters are more complex |
| 13:36.01 | brlcad | e.g. make cono rcc |
| 13:36.48 | brlcad | that will make a simple default one, the "in" command lets you set all the various values on creation |
| 13:53.56 | MinstrelGypsy | heh winsock.h and socket.h don't get along :) |
| 14:27.15 | gioacchino | I want create a not truncated cone |
| 14:27.40 | gioacchino | brlcad: I want create a not truncated cone |
| 14:38.41 | brlcad | just make one end have a really small radius |
| 14:39.20 | brlcad | like 0.01 for the pointed end |
| 14:43.15 | gioacchino | because not exist a cone primitive ? |
| 15:03.34 | gioacchino | brlcad: why not exist a cone primidive ? |
| 15:11.07 | brlcad | that is a cone, it's only mathematically truncated |
| 15:11.17 | brlcad | it can still comes to a "point" |
| 15:11.23 | brlcad | just not a mathematically infinite one |
| 15:12.33 | brlcad | as that's not something that physically ever exists -- even with one atom on the top, there is a definable non-zero radius to both ends |
| 15:17.10 | brlcad | example: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/cone.png |
| 15:18.54 | brlcad | that's a rcc with one radius as 250mm and the other as 0.0000001mm |
| 15:21.14 | brlcad | rcc is actually just a subset of tgc .. tgc in its generalized form does conics, cylinders, cones, and other quadric peculiarities |
| 15:41.44 | MinstrelGypsy | suppose i could hack configure.ac, so I don't have to hack brlcad_config.h in future |
| 15:49.37 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875E15.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 15:58.34 | gioacchino | tanks brlcad |
| 16:00.31 | MinstrelGypsy | gioacchino. io viena dah la bruzzi, parle dialect |
| 16:01.08 | gioacchino | conoscete tutti opiu' o meno l'italiano qui ? |
| 16:01.27 | gioacchino | io sono sicilaino ma abito a roma solo epr studiare |
| 16:01.50 | MinstrelGypsy | capito, io abito a canada |
| 16:02.07 | gioacchino | io ho una zia in canada |
| 16:02.28 | gioacchino | una domand |
| 16:02.29 | MinstrelGypsy | heh Canada eh grande :) |
| 16:02.37 | gioacchino | ama in canada in generale che p2p usate ? |
| 16:02.37 | MinstrelGypsy | quale |
| 16:02.50 | gioacchino | e che velocita' di connessione avete ? |
| 16:03.05 | MinstrelGypsy | lets try it in english i don't quite get that |
| 16:03.52 | gioacchino | I canada who p2p are used? and wats upload/download speed ? |
| 16:04.10 | gioacchino | In italy the most used is emule |
| 16:04.25 | MinstrelGypsy | adsl cable 10mbits 2 mbits stuff like that |
| 16:04.48 | gioacchino | but win italy we have bad connetion!! 8Mb/s download but only 20KB/s upload... |
| 16:05.08 | MinstrelGypsy | heh adsl is like that too |
| 16:05.13 | gioacchino | 2Mb/s upload ?? |
| 16:05.41 | MinstrelGypsy | not sure with the old adsl it was less than 1 mb/sec upload |
| 16:05.41 | gioacchino | 2Mb/s upload is very good!!! |
| 16:06.06 | MinstrelGypsy | i don't upload much anway :) |
| 16:06.18 | gioacchino | 1Mb/s is good same |
| 16:06.19 | MinstrelGypsy | did you get your help? |
| 16:07.01 | gioacchino | with p2p high upload is wonderful |
| 16:07.21 | gioacchino | MinstrelGypsy: did you get your help? in italian =? |
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| 16:07.55 | gioacchino | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:09.42 | gioacchino | the problem isn't interrogation point but "did you get your help" |
| 16:10.00 | gioacchino | MinstrelGypsy: are you here ? |
| 16:15.46 | MinstrelGypsy | i don't do well in Italina i'm schooled in english sorry |
| 16:16.05 | MinstrelGypsy | and besides im no help :) |
| 16:17.18 | MinstrelGypsy | I just play with the stuff i don't draw, model or design |
| 16:18.37 | MinstrelGypsy | there's something called sketch for drawing i think |
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| 18:15.01 | gioacchino | brlcad: I have a problem!! |
| 18:15.10 | gioacchino | I have created the cone |
| 18:16.42 | gioacchino | in cono.r tcg 1 1 1 1 1 100 1 50 1 50 1 1 1 1 100 |
| 18:16.49 | gioacchino | it ok |
| 18:17.01 | gioacchino | but when I use ray trace it not render... |
| 18:17.11 | gioacchino | ita tell to me about a error |
| 18:17.42 | gioacchino | no regins left to prep |
| 18:35.29 | *** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871595.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:41.59 | gioacchino | anibody can help me ? |
| 19:44.27 | MinstrelGypsy | why does 7-10.1 take 2hrs to compile? 7-8.4 only took ~1hr :) |
| 20:14.31 | MinstrelGypsy | [22:38] <brlcad> should get 7.10 to work... 7.8 is history |
| 20:14.31 | MinstrelGypsy | [22:44] <IriX64> working on that now:) |
| 20:14.39 | MinstrelGypsy | well know soon :) |
| 20:15.28 | MinstrelGypsy | it's up with a separate dll dir |
| 20:23.11 | MinstrelGypsy | bah spaces is giving me heartburn lets see what this thing weighs in at |
| 20:25.30 | MinstrelGypsy | 2.9gb uncompressed, what did you guys do? |
| 20:26.28 | MinstrelGypsy | and thats with disable-shared |
| 21:09.45 | bjorkBSD | ping made it to reddit http://www.arl.army.mil/main/main/default.cfm?Action=20&Page=149 |
| 21:10.02 | bjorkBSD | now i wonder if there'll be a rush of brlcad adopters :P |
| 21:52.27 | *** join/#brlcad p0g0 (n=pogo@madwifi/support/p0g0) | |
| 22:11.00 | MinstrelGypsy | there should be a song, macro hell :) |
| 22:44.56 | MinstrelGypsy | a 1000 line hack i churned out in one evening, it would take me a year to churn out 500 lines :) |
| 22:50.43 | bjorkBSD | MinstrelGypsy, think about it this way: the following year it'll take exactly an evening to churn out 500 lines ;) |
| 23:30.29 | MinstrelGypsy | oh I see, save it up till newyears eve right ;) |
| 00:13.25 | MinstrelGypsy | bjorkBSD: would you laugh if i told you I'm playing with a Cygwin build of brlcad-7.10.1? |
| 00:14.08 | MinstrelGypsy | :) |
| 00:14.49 | bjorkBSD | nah. you insist on not using *nix :P |
| 00:15.03 | MinstrelGypsy | good shooting ;) |
| 00:24.33 | MinstrelGypsy | wonder how many dll's for irssi, what the hey need something to do while brlcad compiles |
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| 02:17.28 | MinstrelGypsy | bjorkBSD: only 6 dll's |
| 02:18.49 | MinstrelGypsy | want it? |
| 02:19.04 | IriX64 | ill zip it |
| 02:19.39 | bjorkBSD | haven't run windows in ages! |
| 02:21.17 | MinstrelGypsy | heh ok, it's only 2,387kbytes in size |
| 02:21.25 | MinstrelGypsy | the zip |
| 02:21.28 | bjorkBSD | what might it do with it? |
| 02:22.10 | MinstrelGypsy | don't know, suggestions? |
| 02:23.00 | MinstrelGypsy | give it to whoever@crew.local if they want it :) |
| 02:23.05 | bjorkBSD | hehe |
| 02:23.21 | bjorkBSD | host it someplace easy to find! |
| 02:23.48 | MinstrelGypsy | such as i don't do a lot of that how's it done? |
| 02:24.11 | bjorkBSD | just as you host your images! |
| 02:24.34 | MinstrelGypsy | theres no file section there, i think, let me check... |
| 02:27.29 | MinstrelGypsy | no file section |
| 02:32.46 | MinstrelGypsy | incoming he says |
| 02:34.58 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: hm? "reddit"? |
| 02:39.02 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: --disable-shared makes it compile everything static.. which will result in huge binaries |
| 02:39.59 | MinstrelGypsy | of what use are shared unix libraries in a windows world, or wait a sec, the dll should handle it? |
| 02:40.51 | MinstrelGypsy | ill play with it. |
| 02:47.36 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, yeah. i saw a link to the ping story there :) |
| 02:54.47 | bjorkBSD | ... written by muus. |
| 02:57.57 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: that is taken from muuss' original ping page |
| 02:58.01 | brlcad | http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/ping.html |
| 03:00.13 | bjorkBSD | ah i see. |
| 03:00.20 | bjorkBSD | i wonder what it was doing up on reddit. |
| 03:07.14 | bjorkBSD | oh. |
| 03:07.15 | bjorkBSD | reddit.com |
| 03:07.18 | bjorkBSD | heh. |
| 03:09.09 | brlcad | ooooh |
| 03:10.36 | brlcad | considering the #12 is "A fight starts on Wikipedia over Peter North's penis size", I'm not sure how much credit I'd place on the side being anything more than a google-ad-whore site |
| 03:10.53 | bjorkBSD | hahahaha |
| 03:13.50 | MinstrelGypsy | night.. been a long soft day ;) |
| 05:05.33 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: must echo_n be set to nothing if it's nothing? remove it. |
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| 16:47.41 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 18:01.23 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: protect against duplicate symbols with libdm |
| 18:20.13 | MinstrelGypsy | heh :) |
| 18:29.54 | MinstrelGypsy | .a and .la files? can we really use those? |
| 18:32.25 | MinstrelGypsy | mged=19.9mb |
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| 18:40.21 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: progress, it comes up |
| 19:11.19 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: don't bother creating a BezierCanvas widget for btclsh/bwish (migrate towards using tcl's bezier interface) |
| 19:16.59 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 19:19.03 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: turn off the bezier canvas, make an attempt at tcl 8.5's raw bezier support |
| 20:28.59 | MinstrelGypsy | you work on a Sunday :) |
| 20:44.02 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 22:37.45 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add an 'sged' static ged for debugging testing purposes, only compiles on-demand and is not installed |
| 22:42.03 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: reorder so that function declarations are not necessary |
| 22:42.29 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/.cvsignore: ignore sged |
| 01:28.51 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 03:59.30 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: wrap in HAVE_SETENV |
| 04:03.10 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: iwidgets had the wrong auto_path dir being set for build dir invocation. specifically set tcl_library and tk_library if we find init.tcl and/or tk.tcl respectively in order to further encourage build dir invocation. |
| 04:04.14 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: disabling tk bezier canvas compilation |
| 04:10.37 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: upgrade bundled tcl/tk from 8.5a5 to 8.5a6 |
| 04:18.09 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (1314 files in 45 dirs): upgrade to tcl/tk 8.5a6 (from 8.5a5) .. includes even more (extensive) aquatk fixes/enhancements |
| 04:18.37 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (92 files in 4 dirs): upgrade to tcl/tk 8.5a6 (from 8.5a5) .. includes even more (extensive) aquatk fixes/enhancements |
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| 13:55.35 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: add brlcad iges brep handler |
| 13:56.43 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: add brlcad iges brep handler |
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| 15:34.22 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: one thing, that 7.8.4 build requires a /tmp dir in the root, something i forgot about. |
| 15:39.22 | *** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-221-7-11.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) | |
| 15:39.41 | gioacchino | hello |
| 15:39.57 | gioacchino | anyone can help me ? |
| 15:58.09 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.115.189) | |
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| 16:59.20 | gioacchino | weeeeeeeeeee ? |
| 16:59.24 | gioacchino | anybody online ?? |
| 17:08.44 | ``Erik | no |
| 17:21.02 | gioacchino | hiihi |
| 17:21.15 | gioacchino | I raytrace my cone u cilinder compenetration |
| 17:21.22 | gioacchino | but it are grey.. |
| 17:21.42 | gioacchino | I set comp.c 1 134 1 |
| 17:22.16 | gioacchino | mater comp.c plastic 1 134 1 0 |
| 17:22.30 | gioacchino | but qhen I raytrace it are grey!! |
| 17:22.33 | gioacchino | how to resolve |
| 17:23.19 | gioacchino | 1 134 1 is green!! |
| 17:23.51 | gioacchino | ``Erik |
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| 17:50.56 | gioacchino_ | I restard mged |
| 17:50.59 | gioacchino_ | now work.. |
| 17:51.04 | gioacchino_ | very strange.. |
| 18:03.03 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-8.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:49.59 | MinstrelGypsy | did /fbserv change? |
| 19:17.43 | deltazap | gioacchino_: you have to redraw your combination after changing material properties |
| 19:28.44 | gioacchino_ | ok |
| 19:44.13 | MinstrelGypsy | urff no it didn't. |
| 19:46.15 | gioacchino_ | other problem |
| 19:46.24 | gioacchino_ | the 3 light rendering not work... |
| 19:54.09 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: add the handler back in (fixed compilation) |
| 19:56.39 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: make IGES data type mutable values. utility classes edgeuse and pspacecurve need to be friendly. |
| 19:58.28 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: fix datatype parsing. add debug statements, fix bug in directoryentry access. |
| 19:59.33 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp): fix return types and make signatures match |
| 20:00.16 | gioacchino_ | CIA-31: I'm not a expert programmer... I waith for a new versione |
| 20:00.20 | gioacchino_ | thank's :) |
| 20:01.01 | gioacchino_ | *wait for |
| 20:02.31 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: loop and edgeuse implementation/debugging. parses, but Pro/E outputs model-space trim curves!!!! need to sample the curves. |
| 20:03.38 | CIA-31 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add the new converter back in... hopefully all files checked in now. |
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| 20:50.37 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: if I offer you some source will you review and commit it ;) |
| 20:51.45 | ``Erik | someone will review it... that's what the "patches" section on sourceforge is for |
| 21:26.45 | MinstrelGypsy | ty |
| 21:32.01 | brlcad | depends entirely what the patch is of course, but yes it would be reviewed |
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| 22:22.29 | MinstrelGypsy | dogpatch? (old joke, I just gave myself away :)) |
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| 02:33.39 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 04:19.50 | MinstrelGypsy | you do realize of course there's no money to be made here, I'm simply going to package everything up (including source) when I'm done and give it back to you, minus my compiler of course. |
| 04:42.16 | brlcad | using 7.10.2 hopefully :) |
| 04:45.20 | brlcad | have that 7.8.4 you already made uploading to a windows partition for testing now |
| 04:48.57 | MinstrelGypsy | yes to 7.10.2 |
| 04:49.37 | MinstrelGypsy | remeber the \tmp dir sorry i forgot to tell you |
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| 14:32.40 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 15:55.20 | smallfoot- | brlcad, today it came a new release of NSIS, 2.27 |
| 15:59.58 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/477314 <----- are these times for real? :) |
| 16:00.30 | smallfoot- | no idea |
| 16:00.49 | MinstrelGypsy | left it compiling while i went to bed :) |
| 16:01.30 | smallfoot- | :) |
| 16:07.09 | MinstrelGypsy | should file a report with activestate, their tcl create.n and shell.n don't install (no such file or directory) |
| 16:09.02 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 16:15.16 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/477330 <----- and I cannot fathom what goes on here (sigh) |
| 16:15.51 | MinstrelGypsy | gotta be my system |
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| 16:33.57 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: probably not, if the clock crossed midnight, that might have messed with the numbers |
| 16:34.42 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: are those headers from the newer a6 sources? |
| 16:35.01 | smallfoot- | brlcad, today it came a new release of NSIS, 2.27 |
| 16:35.23 | smallfoot- | when binary release of win32 planned? |
| 16:37.08 | brlcad | within a couple days hopefully.. have to test auto_path code under valgrind |
| 16:37.33 | smallfoot- | okie |
| 16:37.43 | smallfoot- | we should use the new NSIS 2.27 for it, instead of 2.25 |
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| 17:17.33 | smallfoot- | brlcad-7.8.0.exe - 9.65 mb |
| 17:17.47 | smallfoot- | then i deleted it, and compiled with 2.27 and its 19.2 mb |
| 17:17.50 | smallfoot- | wonder what happend |
| 17:18.13 | smallfoot- | ah, now i understand what happend |
| 17:20.44 | smallfoot- | now its 9.65 mb again :p |
| 17:20.57 | MinstrelGypsy | magic :) |
| 17:21.38 | smallfoot- | ya, i accidently included the installer in the installer, that why it was 19.2 mb lol |
| 17:28.24 | MinstrelGypsy | heh mine is rougly 1.5gb :) |
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| 18:11.35 | MinstrelGypsy | can't get by fbserv man, real show stopper. |
| 18:12.49 | ``Erik | um, why are you messing with fbserv directly? |
| 18:13.09 | MinstrelGypsy | tis supposed to compile. |
| 18:13.43 | ``Erik | oh, it's not compiling at all? suckage, paste to pastebin.ca or paste.lisp.org ? |
| 18:13.43 | MinstrelGypsy | sure hold on a sec |
| 18:13.51 | ``Erik | sorry, just got back in the office, still kinda outta it :) |
| 18:15.22 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/477532 <-- all the errors ``Erik |
| 18:16.42 | MinstrelGypsy | started after i did an update yesterday around 4pm |
| 18:16.49 | MinstrelGypsy | cvs update |
| 18:17.12 | MinstrelGypsy | going for food bbiab |
| 18:17.43 | ``Erik | ok, libXt is missing |
| 18:17.49 | ``Erik | or not in the link path |
| 18:19.58 | ``Erik | this smells like the output of an extremely broken os, btw |
| 18:19.58 | ``Erik | oh, wait, it's windows, n/m O:-) |
| 18:20.54 | ``Erik | I think brlcad has kinda taken the stance that damage in src/other is someone elses issue, and I really can't disagree with him... (I'm more apt to disagree on the existance of src/other... I'd personally rather have dependancies external) |
| 18:31.11 | MinstrelGypsy | libXt ill check |
| 18:32.02 | MinstrelGypsy | i can't disagree with him either but have him appoint a "someone else " ;) |
| 18:41.07 | MinstrelGypsy | thanks ``Erik, now i have other issues (which I *know are mine) :) |
| 18:46.51 | MinstrelGypsy | its all tkUnixRFont.c |
| 18:47.19 | MinstrelGypsy | in tk/unix |
| 18:49.34 | ``Erik | well, *shrug* other/ is other, y'know? if you were having issues in librt or conv, I'd dig in, but *shrug* |
| 18:51.09 | MinstrelGypsy | thanks tho i really appreciate the input |
| 18:51.46 | MinstrelGypsy | how much is a mac :P |
| 19:03.49 | MinstrelGypsy | ``Erik you're a card, you should be dealt with (duck) |
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| 20:03.18 | ``Erik | mac's range from 1 to 70 macunits |
| 20:03.42 | ``Erik | and "a card"? I'm more used to being called jackass, asshole, etc... |
| 20:05.16 | brlcad | hm, that particular build failure may be more fallout from tim's X11 changes |
| 20:06.45 | ``Erik | the w32api build of tk shouldn't touch anything X, though, no? or is cyggy mucking things up? |
| 20:24.59 | brlcad | cygwin fully acts like nix by default api-wise |
| 20:25.05 | brlcad | you have to override to get to win32 stuff |
| 20:27.24 | ``Erik | so tk doesn't know to look for that, heh... -mno-cygwin is what I always used with it :) |
| 20:31.57 | dli | brlcad, I can build -cvs by adding LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but is there a better way? Also, I still have to patch Makefile for tcl/tk installdocs |
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| 22:23.25 | MinstrelGypsy | why fbserv tho, thats the question at the moment (btw fbserv isn't in other:)) |
| 22:29.11 | MinstrelGypsy | starting a new tree from cvs checkout, if it' still doesn't build out of the box with --enable-everything, i'm gonna yell :) |
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| 22:31.30 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, --enable-zlib-build=no --enable-termlib-build=no --enable-regexp-build |
| 22:31.44 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, --enable-regexp-build=no |
| 22:32.00 | MinstrelGypsy | why i want those :) |
| 22:32.18 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, I mean you can disable some |
| 22:32.30 | MinstrelGypsy | again *why? |
| 22:32.56 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, if enabling all doesn't work, you want to narrow down the problem |
| 22:33.38 | MinstrelGypsy | heh it's modular work on one thing at a time there could be multiple problems, disabling code doesn't fix it |
| 22:34.28 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, you still need to locate them first |
| 22:34.50 | MinstrelGypsy | compilier tells you and so does the linker |
| 22:35.25 | MinstrelGypsy | as well as make,autogen, and configure and a slew of others :) |
| 22:35.25 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, what's the topmost error, then? |
| 22:35.59 | MinstrelGypsy | can't find x11 from configure :) |
| 22:36.35 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, which os? |
| 22:36.37 | MinstrelGypsy | i can fix that one, no need to disable it |
| 22:37.18 | MinstrelGypsy | Cygwin |
| 22:37.41 | MinstrelGypsy | and before you laugh those blog pix all were generated on this system |
| 22:38.22 | MinstrelGypsy | from *nix code |
| 22:38.54 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, install xorg -devel packages |
| 22:39.33 | MinstrelGypsy | my X11 works dli thank you |
| 22:40.17 | dli | MinstrelGypsy, ? |
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| 00:38.06 | brlcad | dli: it's still not clear why that patch for the tcl/tk docs is needed or why it works -- could you run it by one of the devs in #tcl to see what they say? |
| 00:38.26 | brlcad | they're a bit harsh to talk to sometimes, but they know their stuff |
| 00:39.20 | brlcad | dli: --enable-*-build=no is the same as the (shorter) --disable-*-build ;) |
| 00:39.44 | dli | brlcad, what about the missing libtcl8.5.so problem? |
| 00:39.59 | brlcad | which problem? |
| 00:40.07 | brlcad | the fact it's not in portage yet? |
| 00:40.21 | brlcad | or something else? |
| 00:40.37 | poolio | wait, brlcad is in portage? |
| 00:40.48 | dli | brlcad, during building, make fails with missing libtcl8.5.so |
| 00:41.11 | dli | brlcad, the problem is in -cvs, not in 7.10.0 |
| 00:41.32 | dli | poolio, no, it's in overlay |
| 00:42.40 | dli | brlcad, so, I have to do: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${S}/src/other/tcl/unix emake |
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| 00:49.10 | brlcad | dli: oh, that's news to me |
| 00:49.32 | brlcad | has --disable-tcl-build been added? |
| 00:49.41 | brlcad | what was the configure summary? |
| 00:51.01 | dli | brlcad, you want to see the configure output? |
| 00:55.50 | brlcad | please |
| 01:01.47 | dli | brlcad, first half: http://pastebin.ca/478202 |
| 01:30.17 | dli | brlcad, all output: http://pastebin.ca/478232 |
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| 03:12.49 | MinstrelGypsy | thanks for letting me test -Wl,-noinhibit-exec guys, it works |
| 03:12.49 | MinstrelGypsy | you sorta get an exe :) |
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| 03:14.15 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 03:19.40 | MinstrelGypsy | mental note remeber to test "local scope" a bit more (I'm happy when things work, will try not to be such a blabber mouth) |
| 03:35.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: readd support for running to completion even if there's no configure.ac file (e.g. when trying to just check --version results) |
| 04:04.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: dear ghod, how did that typo go undetected for so long .. we need to run automake during manual steps |
| 04:41.33 | dli | exim |
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| 05:56.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: |
| 05:56.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: change the trap cleanup awesomeness so that we only untrap the abnormal signals |
| 05:56.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: when invoking a subshell (so proper protect_from_automake backup files are all |
| 05:56.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: cleaned up correctly). remove need for SIGNAL var with a little restructuring. |
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| 13:44.46 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 15:59.42 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/479153 |
| 16:04.05 | MinstrelGypsy | not an error, just showing the windows side |
| 16:06.42 | ``Erik | scads of errors, I mean, "C:\"? wtf is that shit? :D |
| 16:06.53 | ``Erik | why are you using classic mode? |
| 16:07.11 | MinstrelGypsy | gui has an issue at the moment :) |
| 16:07.17 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 16:07.25 | MinstrelGypsy | ill sort it out |
| 16:08.23 | MinstrelGypsy | ``Erik ... almost 3 gigs with bothe shared and static libs |
| 16:08.42 | ``Erik | eek |
| 16:08.47 | MinstrelGypsy | yeah |
| 16:09.21 | MinstrelGypsy | maybe i'll try --disable-everything ;) |
| 16:15.48 | smallfoot- | it works good on windows? |
| 16:24.38 | jack | ``Erik: nothing wrong with having both, unneeded for most though..i'd --disable-static maybe |
| 16:24.53 | jack | but those .la files go into -dev for packagers anyway |
| 16:25.02 | jack | so..dont really hurt |
| 16:46.09 | MinstrelGypsy | can you "dev" on the windows side though? |
| 16:46.59 | MinstrelGypsy | goint to disable shared and do a static link |
| 16:48.19 | MinstrelGypsy | will still be big but consider, whats the smallest disk on the markey these days :) |
| 16:48.27 | MinstrelGypsy | market too |
| 16:50.15 | MinstrelGypsy | :) |
| 16:50.16 | ``Erik | kilobit, not kB |
| 16:50.40 | MinstrelGypsy | don't run brlcad on it then :) |
| 16:52.37 | ``Erik | heh, not why I bought the things :) |
| 16:53.50 | MinstrelGypsy | systems squared away again for now |
| 16:56.34 | elite01 | ``Erik, what device has 512B? many microcontrollers have more ram than that |
| 16:58.04 | ``Erik | $2 PICs |
| 16:58.48 | ``Erik | woops, 256 bytes, my bad... 16f88 |
| 16:59.26 | ``Erik | 7kB of program space though |
| 16:59.30 | ``Erik | http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en010243 |
| 16:59.38 | MinstrelGypsy | on the bright side the OS won't have to leave a trail of breadcrumbs to find it's way around:) |
| 17:00.14 | ``Erik | mmm breadcrumbs |
| 17:03.52 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/479240 <---png.c line 373, my compiler says that first if will always evaluate as TRUE |
| 17:04.51 | MinstrelGypsy | the address of png_get_sRGB will always evealuate as true |
| 17:06.47 | MinstrelGypsy | makes now :) |
| 17:06.59 | MinstrelGypsy | brackets count |
| 17:07.09 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:08.32 | MinstrelGypsy | score one for the compiler ;) |
| 17:11.22 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 17:20.28 | ``Erik | png.c:373 on my copy is... different |
| 17:21.03 | ``Erik | and png_get_sRGB() definitely does not always return true if it happens to be defined... since C equates 0 to false... |
| 17:22.01 | MinstrelGypsy | its the one in tk |
| 17:22.25 | MinstrelGypsy | you telling me my compiler is lying? |
| 17:22.52 | MinstrelGypsy | i put the brackets in the warning went away |
| 17:23.37 | MinstrelGypsy | but again its other so *shrug ;) |
| 17:25.08 | ``Erik | yes. your compiler is lying. O.o heh |
| 17:25.21 | MinstrelGypsy | ill spank her :) |
| 17:25.23 | ``Erik | ya see, gcc is very identity conscious |
| 17:25.31 | ``Erik | so when you renamed it |
| 17:25.35 | ``Erik | it got all confused |
| 17:25.42 | MinstrelGypsy | all i wanted was a date |
| 17:25.47 | ``Erik | multiple personalities, general dementia |
| 17:25.52 | MinstrelGypsy | heh |
| 17:26.11 | ``Erik | soon, your compiler will start waking up with bits on her hands and no clue where she's been |
| 17:26.27 | ``Erik | and y our process monitors will be knocking on her door about brutal process killings that'd happened the night before |
| 17:26.42 | MinstrelGypsy | mmm she always turns to me for clues though |
| 17:26.59 | ``Erik | uh, if that's your kink *shrug* |
| 17:27.11 | MinstrelGypsy | my bent actually |
| 17:27.19 | MinstrelGypsy | heh l8r |
| 17:27.58 | ``Erik | causes an interesitng hang during the ./configure pass |
| 17:42.01 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:42.05 | ``Erik | in a 'wtf' sense? |
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| 17:42.31 | ``Erik | http://worsethanfailure.com/ |
| 17:47.58 | smallfoot- | lmao |
| 17:48.16 | smallfoot- | Toby Gray, that's just not fair! How come my chocolate covered raisins never come with any SQL? |
| 17:48.17 | smallfoot- | rotfl |
| 17:59.05 | ``Erik | OMFGLOLLERSKATES!`2 |
| 17:59.07 | ``Erik | :D *duck* |
| 17:59.16 | ``Erik | sorry, I'll be nice O:-) |
| 18:03.28 | smallfoot- | lol :D |
| 18:03.56 | smallfoot- | yeah, but i dont know any better way to express myself than "lol" or "rotfl" |
| 18:04.06 | smallfoot- | "That is funny." just doesnt cut it |
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| 18:05.08 | ``Erik | yeah, and I suppose "heh" or "hehehe" isn't too much better ;) |
| 18:05.33 | MinstrelGypsy | irc ettiquete :) |
| 18:05.36 | ``Erik | once upon a time, like a decade ago, I had aliases like /heh and /hah that'd send something like "hehHhehaHEAHHEAhehaHEAHHehaHEaHEHa" |
| 18:05.59 | ``Erik | I'm a little special at times... :D not minstrelgypsy special, but special... :> |
| 18:06.26 | MinstrelGypsy | oh oh..... they found me out for the idiot I am :) |
| 18:07.02 | MinstrelGypsy | waterloo approaches :) |
| 18:07.26 | ``Erik | they're coming to take me away, haha, they're coming to take me away, to the funny farm where ... |
| 18:07.43 | MinstrelGypsy | let them eat code ;) |
| 18:08.24 | ``Erik | ain't that just like a woman |
| 18:12.22 | MinstrelGypsy | baked code... interesting:) |
| 18:27.32 | smallfoot- | brasilians type like "HUEahAUHeaUHaehUAeheaUHea", H, U, E, and A (i think), in random upper/lowercase lol |
| 18:28.02 | smallfoot- | and the spanish do "jajajajajajajaj XDDDDD" |
| 18:28.07 | smallfoot- | and the polaks do "hyhyhyhyhyhy ;]" |
| 18:28.16 | smallfoot- | and the greek does "xaxaxaxaxaxxa" |
| 18:28.55 | smallfoot- | and the little girls do "tihihi *giggles |
| 18:28.59 | smallfoot- | and the little girls do "tihihi *giggles* ^^" |
| 18:29.19 | smallfoot- | the germans might do "huhuhuhu", but i dont know |
| 18:31.50 | smallfoot- | and the asians do "kekekekekeke" |
| 18:32.04 | smallfoot- | I bullshit you not. |
| 18:37.57 | ``Erik | I thought kekeke was just korean |
| 18:39.51 | ``Erik | ^.^ |
| 19:15.53 | smallfoot- | hmm, might be |
| 19:15.53 | smallfoot- | no, actually people from hong kong use it too, i have observed |
| 19:19.27 | MinstrelGypsy | ``Erik is 9.9.9 *totally unusable? |
| 19:20.36 | MinstrelGypsy | tankwizard... get me a tankard of ale :) |
| 19:22.38 | MinstrelGypsy | thats yours by the way, just don't give it to *nix people, they'll laugh their asses off |
| 19:36.10 | elite01 | ``Erik, eek, pic *runs* |
| 19:40.54 | smallfoot- | http://www.datsunracing.com/other/humor/wowmount.jpg |
| 19:43.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:59.32 | smallfoot- | http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6358/1984nu5.jpg |
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| 21:09.47 | bjorkBSD | smallfoot-, i thought the german sound for a laugh was a facial expression -> :| |
| 21:28.42 | smallfoot- | maybe |
| 21:28.56 | smallfoot- | as i said, i as unsure on the german one |
| 21:30.44 | bjorkBSD | there's no laughter in .de! |
| 21:32.02 | smallfoot- | :) |
| 21:54.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:54.17 | ``Erik | don't forget, slapping the table must occur with every germen phrase |
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| 22:34.07 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/479834 <------ configure.ac line 3833 what is this ^&64* , every time i checkout configure.ac i have to fix it again. |
| 22:35.28 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/479836 theres the fix use it |
| 22:38.50 | MinstrelGypsy | now i've got X11 again imagine that |
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| 22:50.08 | MinstrelGypsy | going for a beer (sigh) :) |
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| 15:16.54 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 17:40.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): ws |
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| 17:41.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: ws |
| 18:09.00 | *** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593841.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:16.57 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/481203 <---- these warnings benign? |
| 18:24.01 | ``Erik | huh, weird, I'm sure they're not worth worrying about, but odd *shrug* |
| 18:30.47 | MinstrelGypsy | wasn't sure... thanks |
| 18:31.44 | MinstrelGypsy | pkg seems to build .. so like you say *shrug* :) |
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| 19:16.56 | ``Erik | 1/det |
| 19:35.03 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/481314 <---- this now, I wanted you to see it before i look at the source code (might be my error, know what I mean:)) |
| 19:38.30 | MinstrelGypsy | as i thought nothing wrong with the code. |
| 19:42.29 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:42.37 | ``Erik | c++ is kinda special |
| 19:42.39 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:43.05 | MinstrelGypsy | time for a break man been at it all night |
| 19:43.05 | MinstrelGypsy | sure is :) |
| 19:43.31 | MinstrelGypsy | jump to a case label? who codes like that ;) |
| 19:49.29 | ``Erik | jump to a case label? uh... that'ts, kinda, uh, what "switch" is |
| 19:51.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): Add specific curve and surface handlers. Implement rational b-spline extraction routine. |
| 19:51.22 | ``Erik | if ya notice, the error isn't that itt does it... it's that c++ has this funky ability to define variables in mid function, and it looks like the compiler is wigging over that (perhaps due to not having the curley brackets to get C like behavior) |
| 19:57.08 | MinstrelGypsy | you're fast :) |
| 20:00.36 | MinstrelGypsy | lemme try my compiler on that :) |
| 20:06.48 | MinstrelGypsy | as i said you're fast and good :) |
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| 20:35.17 | ``Erik | nah, I've been laying code down for 24 years now, I have enough karma saved up to get lucky once in a while ;) |
| 20:39.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/dm-wgl.h: Added include for GL/gl.h |
| 20:41.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vers.c: Added include for bu.h |
| 20:42.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbn/vers.c: Added include for bn.h |
| 20:43.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/vers.c: Added include for raytrace.h |
| 20:45.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/vers.c: Added include for pkg.h |
| 20:48.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/vers.c: Added includes for raytrace.h and optical.h |
| 20:51.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/vers.c: Added include for dm.h |
| 20:56.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/vers.c: Added include for fb.h |
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| 21:24.52 | SportChick | hi mozul |
| 21:25.01 | mozul | hello |
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| 22:23.58 | MinstrelGypsy | the bloody thing wants to argue i quote" Arguments 1 of 9 " :) |
| 22:30.55 | MinstrelGypsy | makity make one nine, how far to the next link :) |
| 22:31.02 | MinstrelGypsy | i'll shutup now. |
| 22:42.11 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/481637 <---what are you trying to do on this line? triggers warning |
| 22:50.01 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/481653 <--- bltcanveps too, thought you might like the line numbers |
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| 02:39.52 | MinstrelGypsy | 7.10.2 ? any eta? |
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| 03:25.48 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: when it's ready |
| 03:25.59 | brlcad | you'll see the commits |
| 03:26.22 | brlcad | blt is in src/other |
| 03:26.58 | brlcad | absolutely don't care about warnings in src/other .. errors: depends; warnings: no |
| 03:27.17 | brlcad | unless you have some direct linkage from a warning to an error elsewhere |
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| 17:13.57 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: understood |
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| 17:27.29 | MinstrelGypsy | haha making it make to ole Blue Eyes "My Way" :) |
| 17:28.12 | MinstrelGypsy | see, when there's music code lays down for you ;) |
| 18:11.37 | MinstrelGypsy | there, new configure switch, --disable-other :P |
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| 23:14.05 | MinstrelGypsy | might give myself commit access if this keeps up ;) |
| 00:10.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add BU_DEBUG_BACKTRACE, cleanup and slot the unused |
| 00:11.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: debug the paths only when BU_DEBUG_PATHS is enabled |
| 00:11.19 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: making mods? |
| 00:12.23 | brlcad | guess not |
| 00:15.43 | Twingy | new stargate *happy dance* |
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| 01:03.44 | brlcad | on dvr *happy dance* |
| 01:07.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for kill() |
| 01:07.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: stub out the backtrace section |
| 01:07.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: remove _WIN32, check for HAVE_KILL |
| 01:15.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: use HAVE_KILL instead of _WIN32, refactor into just one |
| 01:18.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/vdraw.c: remove dead code |
| 04:29.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (backtrace.c Makefile.am bomb.c): Initial support for extracting a stack backtrace during run-time from the current execution environment. Hooked into bu_bomb() for starters, which is just set up to write the backtrace out to a file for now. |
| 04:30.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: ws, stdc |
| 04:50.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/kill.c: add support for a consistent means to kill a process via new bu_terminate() call |
| 04:51.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add kill.c |
| 04:51.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare newly added bu_terminate() call |
| 04:52.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: use bu_terminate() |
| 05:00.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/kill.c: just in case, DWORD |
| 05:17.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: add getpid() equivalence for win32 ala GetCurrentProcessId() so that parallel stuff can be closer to working native |
| 05:17.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: use bu_terminate() since it should be a proper pid now to be killed properly, even on win32. |
| 05:31.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: ws and minor dead code cleanup |
| 05:35.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add backtrace.c and kill.c |
| 05:36.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: add backtrace.c and kill.c |
| 05:54.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: ws and massive reorder so forward declarations aren't necessary |
| 06:00.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: maybe unnecessary as there's much more needed to deal with all the rest of the signal code, but go ahead and wrap getting the right pid |
| 06:02.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/fbed.c: maybe unnecessary as there's much more needed to deal with all the rest of the signal code, but go ahead and wrap getting the right pid |
| 06:03.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/do_options.c: maybe unnecessary as there's more needed to deal with the signal code, but go ahead and wrap getting the right pid |
| 06:07.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: do something if we don't have kill() |
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| 06:13.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: already declared in ged.h |
| 06:21.35 | clock_ | brlcad: here? |
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| 21:04.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/kill.c: missing signal.h header |
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| 22:00.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add process.c to libbu for a bu_process_id() wrapper call for getting the pid of the current process |
| 22:07.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: include dependent headers |
| 22:23.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 7 dirs): use new bu_process_id() function to get the pid now |
| 22:25.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: add GetCurrentProcessId() towards having the right value on windows, while avoiding making libbu a dependency still |
| 22:27.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: need vmath.h for the vector code |
| 22:27.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: use new bu_process_id() function to get the pid now |
| 00:06.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_backtrace() |
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| 02:27.40 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: yes, making minor mods |
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| 07:11.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: only want/need the first, so avoid a two-element array |
| 07:12.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (stat.c which.c whereis.c): use bu_debug & BU_DEBUG_PATHS |
| 07:14.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: flush before forking, else we end up with duplicates when both child and parent flush. free a few overlooked allocations. turn off some of the optional signal stuff for now. |
| 07:17.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (which.c whereis.c): ws |
| 08:19.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (which.c whereis.c): init everything |
| 08:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (bomb.c malloc.c): |
| 08:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add a memory buffer failsafe to bu_bomb() that will release an allocation (64k) |
| 08:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prior to performing the shutdown calls (some syscalls, some others may have tiny |
| 08:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: allocations of their own even for string/print processing). this is of course |
| 08:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: down to give the app a tiny bit of breathing room so that hopefully there's |
| 08:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: enough room to shutdown cleanly. |
| 08:24.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: minor, set to null when freed |
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| 13:11.32 | *** join/#brlcad CPU_Wizard (n=CPU_Wiza@adsl-250-179.diodos.auth.gr) | |
| 13:11.55 | CPU_Wizard | hello people |
| 13:12.07 | CPU_Wizard | is there anyone here to ask something please? |
| 13:12.09 | CPU_Wizard | ): |
| 13:12.10 | CPU_Wizard | :) |
| 13:15.23 | elite01 | jusk ask, if you're lucky, you'll get a response soon :) |
| 13:16.00 | CPU_Wizard | ok :) i installed yesterday brlcad on ubuntu feisty, but i can't run the program |
| 13:16.22 | CPU_Wizard | i cant's get it started from console and there is no icon on the Applications menu |
| 13:16.23 | elite01 | mged? |
| 13:16.30 | CPU_Wizard | mged=? |
| 13:16.39 | elite01 | type mged into the console |
| 13:17.11 | CPU_Wizard | command not found |
| 13:17.59 | elite01 | uuh locate mged? |
| 13:18.35 | CPU_Wizard | i can't find it... maybe i'll have to install it from synaptics |
| 13:18.43 | CPU_Wizard | synaptic* |
| 13:19.07 | elite01 | i installed from source |
| 13:19.28 | CPU_Wizard | let me check |
| 13:20.08 | CPU_Wizard | i wonder why it doesn't work... the package was .deb so it was supposed to install automatically |
| 13:20.12 | CPU_Wizard | i don't get it :( |
| 13:20.28 | elite01 | maybe mged just isn't in the path |
| 13:21.26 | CPU_Wizard | let me check :) |
| 13:21.37 | elite01 | maybe /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 13:23.13 | CPU_Wizard | ok found it |
| 13:23.17 | CPU_Wizard | that's brlcad? :S |
| 13:23.32 | elite01 | uh that's the modeler |
| 13:24.28 | CPU_Wizard | i 'd expect a nicer environment... the fonts are not very clear :S |
| 13:24.54 | elite01 | they're... huge |
| 13:25.01 | CPU_Wizard | yeah :P |
| 13:25.05 | elite01 | check file->preferences->fonts |
| 13:26.14 | elite01 | and file->update/create .mgedrc otherwise the settings are gone |
| 13:27.03 | CPU_Wizard | ok found it... what font do you use? |
| 13:27.18 | elite01 | i'd just set the size to 8 or something |
| 13:27.33 | elite01 | but somehow it always sets it back on restart |
| 13:29.00 | CPU_Wizard | ok! elite01 thnx for all the help. it was very kind of you :) |
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| 18:49.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (which.c whereis.c): |
| 18:49.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: rewrite bu_which/bu_whereis routines so that they just return the first match |
| 18:49.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: encountered instead of all matches. this simplifies the caller interface and |
| 18:49.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: makes it easier to implement them in a manner that does not require heap |
| 18:49.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: allocation. |
| 18:52.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/backtrace.c libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c): whereis/which now just take one parameter, the command name, returning the matched result. no longer need to free anything. |
| 18:52.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: debug printing |
| 18:52.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_whereis() and bu_which() |
| 18:53.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add crashreport.c to build |
| 18:56.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: |
| 18:56.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: initial implementation of a crash report generator that works with the new |
| 18:56.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: backtrace support. included in the crash report are additional details like the |
| 18:56.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: version of BRL-CAD; kernel, OS, and hardware info (via sysctl and uname |
| 18:56.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: commands); and the stack trace. needs more work to avoid allocations and not |
| 18:57.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: utilize stack data in case of corruption, but it's a good start. |
| 18:58.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add crashreport.c to the windows build |
| 19:01.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: generate crash report files during application abort |
| 19:02.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tcl/tk updated, just one thing left to check up on before release |
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| 14:00.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: Remove some debugging statements, and make parameter methods const. |
| 14:02.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): Implement extract routine for surfaces of revolution. |
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| 15:47.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (44 files in 44 dirs): Update include paths due to changes in where files like tcl.h, zlib.h etc. live |
| 16:07.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: oh yeah, do something about sketcher before release too .. at least should make sure it doesn't crash if it's going to remain disabled |
| 16:09.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: do the header expansion in our own buffer to help avoid heap allocation inside fprintf; don't print empty sysctl lines |
| 16:40.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h machine.h nmg.h rtlist.h rtstring.h): rtlist.h and rtstring.h are no longer relevant -- warn that they are obsolete (to be removed in a future minor rev) |
| 16:48.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: add xform matrix extraction (still needs to be optimized) |
| 16:49.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): implement extraction routine for circular arcs |
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| 16:54.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: er, if they're deprecated, then why the heck are we still using them. remove rtlist.h and compat4.h usage. |
| 16:55.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (rtlist.h rtstring.h conf.h): gnu preprocessor doesn't like #warn -- use #warning |
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| 16:57.39 | cad57 | hi |
| 16:58.13 | cad57 | im from italy and im becoming mad |
| 16:58.39 | cad57 | can someone help me with brlcad extrude? |
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| 17:14.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: avoid new stack/heap variables since these routines need to be callable during a crash and out-of-memory situations. |
| 17:14.56 | cad44 | Hello. I was looking for a sudo cad program for "home" design. Do any of you know of an open source solution for house design? I thought BRL was overkill for it. |
| 17:16.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/msr.h: msr is also obsolete, add #warning |
| 17:17.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/compat4.h: The compat4.h header provides support for DEPRECATED interface names. encourage callers to update their sources via a #warning. |
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| 17:28.43 | clock_ | brlcad: do you go to gym? |
| 17:31.59 | brlcad | clock_: as much as I can get away with |
| 17:32.11 | brlcad | cad44: nothing really good |
| 17:32.24 | clock_ | brlcad: I made a home trainer that makes electricity... up to 380V DC and up to 90W.. and connected my laptop to it |
| 17:32.45 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:33.10 | clock_ | training is now simple. You have to keep the voltage between preferrably 250V and 300V, which is quite strenuous, to not burn the laptop or reset the computer and lose your work |
| 17:33.21 | clock_ | so after reading your email you can get away with a towel, but after a 1/2 hour work you already have to take a shower... :D |
| 17:33.37 | clock_ | and computer addiction is suddenly gone :) |
| 17:33.42 | brlcad | hehe |
| 17:34.10 | brlcad | sounds like you should be able to plug into a ups to regulate it |
| 17:34.33 | clock_ | when you have too little steam, no regulation helps you |
| 17:34.44 | clock_ | regulation cannot create energy |
| 17:34.50 | clock_ | what you need is a whip, not an UPS :) |
| 17:37.18 | brlcad | i mean if you had a charged ups, and you hooked up your generator to feed it, then plugged laptop into the ups.. that might not sustain you indefinitely, but it could possible take you days to drain it at a leisurely pace ;) |
| 17:40.26 | clock_ | well my objection is not to save energy or become grid independent, but, vulgarily said, get a fuckable body |
| 17:40.55 | clock_ | the problem with normal home trainer is that there's not much motivation to exercise into a brake |
| 17:41.34 | clock_ | but if the thing is hooked up in the way that if you pedal too slow for a split second, you are penalized with a 7 minute fsck, then there's a clearly cut motivation :) |
| 17:42.52 | brlcad | hm.. no matter how much I like to keep in shape, I don't think I'd risk my data for it :) |
| 17:44.17 | brlcad | i actually don't really like working out at home either.. i've tried it many times, but it almost guaranteed leads me to ignore the equipment/weights/bike/whatever or find other things to do after a while |
| 17:44.35 | clock_ | other people say the same |
| 17:44.53 | brlcad | plus there are secondary benefits of going to the gym outside of just the workout -- seeing others, making friends, being social, getting away from distractions, etc |
| 17:45.10 | clock_ | additional workout of walking into the gym? |
| 17:45.25 | clock_ | Well my idea is to add this on top of the regular activities |
| 17:45.39 | clock_ | since it's stacked on the home PC usage which is already pre-wasted time |
| 17:54.38 | brlcad | wow, the compat4 conversion was never completed (!) |
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| 20:01.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/tkimgIO.c: quell warning |
| 20:01.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (LoadArcherLibs.tcl Archer.tcl): Use tcl_platform(platform) instead of tcl_platform(os). |
| 20:13.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: Update include paths. Added IF_WGL to list of preprocessor definitions. |
| 20:18.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): implement extraction of edges and vertices, finish loop and edge use handling calls. there remains a bug in the vertex extractor at this point. |
| 20:20.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj_win32.c: Need to include pkg.h and fb.h |
| 20:24.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: Include winsock2.h before windows.h to get rid of redefinition errors. |
| 20:26.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: If on windows don't need to declare itoa(), especially one that returns void |
| 20:29.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (bltBgexec.c bltNsUtil.h bltVecMath.c tkConsole.c): Mods to update BLT with respect to Tcl |
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| 21:05.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (122 files in 25 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 21:05.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: gah, pick up where someone left off over half a decade ago. finish updating all |
| 21:05.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: of the compat4 symbols throughout the code to their new names. finally. it's |
| 21:05.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: done. make the deprecated headers obsolete -- make compat4.h obsolete too so we |
| 21:05.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: can be sure that all of the changes are now picked up by the compiler as errors. |
| 21:05.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: this change will likely impact muves if they've similarly not updated to the new |
| 21:05.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: names too, so the headers are kept with a #warning for now (though will likely |
| 21:08.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am bombardier.c): oops, that wasn't supposed to be part of the massive compat4 commit, revert it away for now until it's done |
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| 21:14.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: use VSET |
| 21:22.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: |
| 21:22.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: vmath is predominantly vector math, matrix math is elsewhere in bn (this holds |
| 21:22.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: for other operations that are more intensive than basic vector math code too). |
| 21:22.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: in particular, seems at a glance that this code should be using bn_mat_mult(). |
| 21:31.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: need bn.h for bn_mat_mul |
| 21:32.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: common.h always comes before system headers |
| 21:33.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): not knowing the file type should report a non-zero error |
| 21:35.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add additional c++ header name suffixes |
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| 21:38.09 | Attil1 | hi all guys :D |
| 21:38.28 | *** part/#brlcad Attil1 (n=Propriet@213-140-6-119.ip.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 21:42.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: stub out where the description goes and add the author block automatically |
| 21:45.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.cpp n_iges.hpp): add the file header/footers (added automatically by running [ sh/template.sh lgpl path/to/filename ]) |
| 21:49.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/compat4.h: should be pretty much all scrubbed up now |
| 23:17.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pixcount.c remapid.c mst.c): redblack.h is no longer needed -- facilities are provided for by bu.h |
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| 00:43.03 | Joely | hey, I've been going over tutorials for the past days, and teaching some people how to use BRL-CAD, but I still can't figure out how to make a rectangular prism with given exact dimensions. i think i'm missing something big (i can make really easy precise things like this: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/35/stereoplugri3.png) but i just cannot figure out how to simply make an arb8 with just putting in the dimensions, rather than playing with vertices.. |
| 01:05.54 | brlcad | hello Joely |
| 01:08.58 | brlcad | Joely: how are you creating cylinders precisely now? |
| 01:10.10 | brlcad | you can create a precise arb8 in several ways .. the in command, via edit options on the menu, via text editors, etc |
| 01:11.50 | Joely | ah, yes, i just tried again (i ate and got some willpower!) with some more vertices..but i'm just wondering if there's certain shortcuts for `regular' shapes (like a rectangular prism...where you only really need to define 4 verts instead of 8) |
| 01:12.39 | Joely | ok nvm that didn't make sense... |
| 01:13.03 | Joely | i just thought there would be something for snapping to dimensions |
| 01:13.17 | brlcad | type "make arb6" |
| 01:14.26 | brlcad | er, sorry: make prism arb6 |
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| 03:07.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: next minor release release, remove obsolete headers. |
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| 03:48.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/wdb.c: more compat4 stuff |
| 03:53.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: bn_poly_ root solver routines have the equation as the second param |
| 04:02.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: comment out the bombardier rules since it's not added yet |
| 04:48.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (5 files in 5 dirs): make their AC_PREREQ match ours |
| 06:50.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: look a little harder for resources, in case db resources are installed in more conventional share dir, for example. |
| 06:58.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/basename.c: garbage in, garbage out -- but at least prevents it from crashing here. |
| 07:27.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: warn during compilation if we don't know how to get the executable's name. check for null types and values so we at least don't crash. |
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| 13:28.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/rtg3/rtg3.vcproj: Initially only settings for release mode. |
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| 14:06.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: added test for sys/times.h |
| 14:09.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp: link with ws2_32.lib (select()) |
| 14:14.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: |
| 14:14.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: added some process management functions |
| 14:14.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: removed HAVE_SYS_TIME |
| 14:21.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: |
| 14:21.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: conditional header inclusion |
| 14:21.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: no SIGCHLD in MS Windows |
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| 16:15.25 | ``Erik | hum, that may be the fix |
| 16:42.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: propogate values of --with-x11 to variables used by XTRA and the rest of configure (re-doing the hack that was undone) |
| 16:54.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: fixed edge extraction/vertex bug |
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| 18:42.39 | ``Erik | hum, regex.h issue's back on both fbsd and osX :/ |
| 18:45.17 | ``Erik | the -Wl,--rpath issue is with both gcc 4.1 and 3.4.6 |
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| 00:18.29 | MinstrelGypsy | BrepHandler.cpp needs to "assert" itself :) |
| 00:19.43 | louipc | yeah I got that one too |
| 00:19.50 | MinstrelGypsy | heh |
| 00:20.38 | MinstrelGypsy | tell it to #include "assert.h" ;) |
| 00:20.47 | louipc | I actually succeeded in building and installing 7.10.0 but then I couldn't browse geometry heh |
| 00:21.06 | MinstrelGypsy | im still waiting for success |
| 00:21.11 | louipc | I had already pkged and installed jove so that error was skipped |
| 00:21.23 | MinstrelGypsy | jove is fixed in cvs |
| 00:21.31 | louipc | I know :D |
| 00:21.54 | MinstrelGypsy | emacs? blargh, vi forever :D |
| 00:22.18 | louipc | oh not that again hahhh |
| 00:22.40 | MinstrelGypsy | i use midnight commander more often than not |
| 00:24.21 | louipc | every once in awhile I'll try a file-man but I always go back to shell commands :/ |
| 00:24.42 | MinstrelGypsy | i mix the two liberal doses of both |
| 00:25.04 | MinstrelGypsy | for moving whole directories around it beautifull |
| 00:25.13 | MinstrelGypsy | *its |
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| 03:45.32 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, i forgot my password to bz |
| 03:46.55 | PrezKennedy | HA |
| 04:00.07 | PrezKennedy | i wonder if theres a way to get IRC on my blackberry... |
| 04:07.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: comment that we really should fork and exec instead of use popen so we can close/redirect stderr since sysctl frequently will dump junk there. |
| 04:07.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: instead of just dumping the backtrace, dump a full crash report .. but only do this if DEBUG is defined so we have a better chance at having debug symbols in the stack trace. |
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| 06:27.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: gah, unbreak the root solver -- compat4 params are swapped like the others, just in a pair. thx john! |
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| 13:10.52 | gioacchino | hello all |
| 13:11.13 | gioacchino | how to convert .dwg in .g ? |
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| 14:40.02 | brlcad | gioacchino: dwg drawing files are predominantly 2D data, not solid modeling data -- there isn't a converter |
| 14:42.34 | brlcad | gioacchino: did you get my answer regarding the problem you were having with "in cono.r tcg 1 1 1 1 1 100 1 50 1 50 1 1 1 1 100" .. you're using vectors there that are non-perpendicular, i.e. it's invalid |
| 14:42.58 | brlcad | turning those one's into zero's and you have perpendicularity |
| 14:45.58 | gioacchino | asp asp |
| 14:46.06 | gioacchino | intanto grazie per la cosa sul dwg |
| 14:49.24 | gioacchino | grazie |
| 14:49.32 | gioacchino | ero gia riuscito a risolvere |
| 14:49.38 | gioacchino | brlcad: |
| 14:50.05 | gioacchino | after creation with in exiat a metod to modify the solid ? |
| 14:51.23 | ``Erik | sed cono.r |
| 14:51.35 | brlcad | there's a variety of ways .. there are commands for editing objects on the command line, there is a text edit command (ted), there's the edit menu in the gui .. |
| 14:51.47 | ``Erik | then the edit menu will contain primitive specific shtuff |
| 14:52.13 | brlcad | yeah, that's one of the easiest ways |
| 14:52.22 | gioacchino | grazie |
| 14:54.47 | ``Erik | C: void greet(char *person) { printf("Hi, %s\n", person); return; } |
| 14:54.54 | ``Erik | lisp: (defun greet (person) (format nil "Hi, ~A" person)) |
| 14:55.01 | ``Erik | scheme: (define (greet person) (println "Hi, " person)) |
| 14:55.07 | ``Erik | :) |
| 14:55.25 | ``Erik | (at least with the trivial case...) |
| 14:55.31 | ``Erik | format is all sorts of skeery |
| 14:58.35 | brlcad | eh, in all fairness, either the void or the return aren't strictly necessary |
| 14:59.33 | brlcad | i think they all just look like code |
| 14:59.39 | brlcad | none pretty :) |
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| 15:18.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: implement handlers for rational b-spline surfaces and surfaces of revolution |
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| 15:52.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: fixes to make PNG saving work |
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| 18:06.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add wdb lib to new iges converter build |
| 18:09.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (nmain.cpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp): "finish" the topology handling code and write out a test .g file. currently has a bug in the trim curve handling. |
| 18:31.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: wdb comes before rt, bn, bu |
| 18:57.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: set the deep datadir if prefix is default |
| 18:59.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: report on where data files are going to go too |
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| 20:23.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: remove forward decls, they're already in usage order |
| 20:23.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_pipe.c g_tgc.c g_torus.c): remove references to the rt_poly routines, refer to bn_poly instead |
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| 20:39.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: apparently, I lied -- they weren't in order yet. now they are, and include doxygenified comments |
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| 00:48.13 | MinstrelGypsy | why must *nix newbies learn the hard way instead of receiving help from those already experienced? Is it a matter of having to earn your wings? |
| 00:53.32 | ``Erik | those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it? |
| 00:53.40 | ``Erik | why? what stupid thing did you do? :D |
| 00:54.15 | MinstrelGypsy | urffff i'm trying to write the text here, not just earn a footnote in it ;) |
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| 00:54.42 | MinstrelGypsy | edited configure.ac :P |
| 01:29.25 | dli | BrepHandler.cpp: In member function 'virtual int brlcad::BrepHandler::extractVertex(const brlcad::DirectoryEntry*, int)': |
| 01:29.25 | dli | BrepHandler.cpp:363: error: 'assert' was not declared in this scope |
| 01:38.28 | louipc_ | MinstrelGypsy: books are helpful for that hah |
| 01:48.41 | MinstrelGypsy | louipc somebody writes them bwaha |
| 01:50.06 | MinstrelGypsy | i never was one much for taking tests though louipc, specially blood tests, I always fail those :P |
| 01:50.34 | MinstrelGypsy | stead of getting an A i get an O :) |
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| 02:36.49 | Joely | ok i finally got a handle on arbs and other primitive shapes! now...what i need is either a really ingenious idea or do what i would do in povray with a sphere sweep along a spline..i'm trying to make something that looks kinda like this : http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/018/18572.jpg right now i'm concentrating on the main huge threads |
| 02:37.03 | Joely | any ideas? |
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| 03:17.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: need assert.h for assert() |
| 03:18.01 | brlcad | Joely: the bottom half seems to be a subtracted pipe |
| 03:18.31 | brlcad | (pipes are covered in the advanced modeling tutorial, vol III) |
| 03:19.17 | brlcad | can do something similar for the finer threads, though the operation is probably different to get the right shape |
| 03:19.41 | Joely | ah ok, so use bending pipes? |
| 03:23.14 | Joely | oh i found it.....a coil...ok thanks! |
| 03:48.23 | brlcad | ``Erik: i'm done hunting and rechecked all of the code related to bn_poly_synthetic_division several times over now .. and haven't found anything ... |
| 03:48.33 | brlcad | and it all works for me when testing ... |
| 03:48.55 | brlcad | smells like a non-clean build, even though you said you'd cleaned |
| 03:49.50 | brlcad | I rechecked the report from jra and his report was the swapped vars, which is fixed as far as I can tell |
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| 04:01.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: initialize the structs for good measure, even though bn_poly_synthetic_division() will too |
| 04:03.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: ws |
| 04:15.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: ws |
| 04:44.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix a bug where an automake failure after a libtool failure resulted in silent termination instead of showing the automake error. |
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| 13:38.50 | ``Erik | again O.o |
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| 17:25.23 | ``Erik | ok. my bad. crash is gone now, sorry |
| 17:25.45 | ``Erik | had to remove the -Wl args for tk to build though |
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| 18:30.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (31 files in 3 dirs): add the NIST template numerics toolkit (TNT) for more involved matrix manipulations that libbn doesn't cover. TNT is a replacement for LAPACK++. Said matrix manipulations are needed for BREP manipulation. |
| 18:33.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added NIST's Template Numerical Toolkit |
| 19:03.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: grr, newer versions of automake replace the clobbered COPYING/INSTALL files with mode 444. delete them if we're going to restore. |
| 19:04.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.h: Add header file for missing pullback_curve functionality missing from openNURBS |
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| 20:31.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add pullback_curve to converter files; add tnt lib |
| 20:32.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (PullbackCurve.cpp PullbackCurve.h): begin pullback_curve implementation: sampling stage. |
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| 04:09.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 04:09.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add a deprecation list for keeping track of when things can be marked obsolete |
| 04:09.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: and subsequently removed. the general guidelines are to allow removal during a |
| 04:09.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: major update, after at least three minor updates, or after six months .. |
| 04:09.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: whichever comes first. |
| 04:10.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bomb.c: rt_bomb() has technically been deprecated since before 7.0, but even our sources only loosely reflected this via inclusion in compat4.h so begin deprecation now, adding a deprecation message. |
| 04:14.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (110 files in 16 dirs): rt_bomb() has been deprecated since before 7.0, but even our sources weren't properly updated to reflect this change. update all of our sources to use bu_bomb() now. |
| 05:05.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: include a contact e-mail |
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| 13:06.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Replace "get" with "get_type" for all cases where it was being used to determine the existence of an object. |
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| 14:29.06 | brlcad | I'd made a mental note to check out other polynomial root solvers to see if we can get some free performance boosting to the more complex primitives that use it for solving their ray-intersection |
| 14:29.31 | brlcad | i finally got around to testing some today, and have tested four so far that I've run across .. |
| 14:30.07 | brlcad | not one has come even close to the performance .. closest has been about 300% slower |
| 14:31.28 | archivist | everone out there re-inventing slower wheels |
| 14:32.09 | brlcad | i actually didn't think ours was "that fast" .. |
| 14:33.39 | archivist | a nice shock then |
| 14:33.42 | brlcad | I knew it was good, but nothing ground breaking .. i'm just not even finding anything in the ballpark |
| 14:34.01 | brlcad | well, it could just be that I've just run across four lemons in a row too |
| 14:34.14 | brlcad | but so far yeah.. not too shabby for code that old.. |
| 14:35.48 | ``Erik | y'know, I'm under the impression that older code tends to be MUCH better performance wise |
| 14:35.54 | ``Erik | both asymoptotic and constant |
| 14:35.55 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 14:36.45 | brlcad | jeff hanes wrote the existing solver back in '85 |
| 14:36.46 | ``Erik | machines were slower, they couldn't afford the waste... take a look at regex nfa's... ruby, perl, etc are all abysmal compared to early 70's thompson nfa's (grep, sed), and even tcl blows the doors off of perl for 'difficult' regex's |
| 14:37.42 | ``Erik | got a paper on my desk... lemme find the url... |
| 14:37.46 | brlcad | i was sorta expecting to find a simd'd root solver somewhere that might have a good hand at competing, but so far no luck |
| 14:38.10 | ``Erik | http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html |
| 14:38.41 | ``Erik | I THINK I got the paper from http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2064 |
| 14:38.49 | archivist | heh I look at some modern database stuff and the mid 1980s stuff had some very good ideas that now seem forgotten |
| 14:40.04 | brlcad | ``Erik: oh, i'd fully believe that -- I ran into regex issues when I wrote this extensive language filter for bzflag -- expressions that were hundreds of chars long, complex patterns |
| 14:40.16 | archivist | early 60's bah /me has a 1951 programming book on my desk |
| 14:40.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:40.45 | archivist | actually a M.V. Wilkes book |
| 14:40.52 | brlcad | i ended up using the (old) version we have in cad on some systems because it would crash various newer system regex libraries (debian was one) |
| 14:40.53 | ``Erik | brlcad: check out the url I pasted, it might be worth your time :) |
| 14:42.01 | ``Erik | a 30 character match taking 60 seconds using perl regex and 20 seconds using thompson nfa in awk/grep |
| 14:42.03 | ``Erik | er |
| 14:42.06 | ``Erik | 20 microseconds |
| 14:42.32 | ``Erik | .00002 seconds |
| 14:43.04 | brlcad | yeah, i'm not really too surprised by that |
| 14:43.24 | brlcad | though I was only considering implementations already in the lower graph |
| 14:44.18 | brlcad | my regex's were hundreds of chars.. and I needed it to test thousands within less than 10ms |
| 14:44.50 | brlcad | i had all the timings worked out, it was rather expensive |
| 14:45.23 | ``Erik | heh, (of course, this is the pathological case... which is the word I was searching for yesterday...) |
| 14:47.28 | brlcad | for the root solving, it could also be the case that all/most were based off some reference implementation that everyone just keeps copying, maybe from graphics gems or something |
| 14:49.30 | ``Erik | brlcad: working from home today? |
| 14:50.12 | brlcad | just not working |
| 14:50.33 | ``Erik | ah :) guess I'll stay in for luncht hen :D |
| 14:50.51 | brlcad | give me some time to poke on some more interesting code stuffs (like the root finding) |
| 14:51.16 | ``Erik | opposed to bzflag stuff? :D |
| 14:51.45 | brlcad | that too |
| 14:53.49 | brlcad | heh, most are |
| 14:54.48 | ``Erik | mebbe after my sexp/xml compilers, heh |
| 14:57.00 | brlcad | bah.. paper not included in my ieee membership |
| 14:57.24 | ``Erik | hum, think I could get it through the portal? |
| 14:57.46 | brlcad | http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/10248/32586/01524367.pdf?arnumber=1524367 |
| 14:59.03 | ``Erik | /tmp on you know where |
| 15:09.16 | brlcad | shweet |
| 15:10.16 | brlcad | gah, they're solving arbitrary degree polynomials |
| 15:10.28 | ``Erik | (but only since it's explicitely for a BRL-CAD task and all official like that, 'n shtuff, you coulda ran firefox on a work box to get it... :D ) |
| 15:10.30 | brlcad | don't care much past 4th |
| 15:10.47 | ``Erik | hum, at least not for the torus |
| 15:10.56 | brlcad | torus is 4th |
| 15:11.14 | ``Erik | if the meatball thing were converted to a root solve, it'd be nth degree |
| 15:11.53 | ``Erik | nurbles might leverage >4, I'd imagine... but I don't know jack about those |
| 15:12.16 | brlcad | the existing will go higher than 4, it's just a compile-time limit |
| 15:12.51 | ``Erik | one of my test cases for the brute force approach was 10,000 control points, which I THINK is a 10k order polynomial |
| 15:13.16 | brlcad | meatballs are good to keep in mind .. though if you have them working direct without root solver, that's probably a better solution anyways |
| 15:13.36 | ``Erik | I have an approximation working, it's imperfect |
| 15:13.56 | brlcad | depends how imperfect :) |
| 15:14.05 | ``Erik | um, at the moment, it walks the ray in 1/20 bounding sphere radius steps looking for a sign change, effectively |
| 15:14.07 | brlcad | i mean they are metaballs after all anyways too |
| 15:14.21 | ``Erik | then does a binary partition to find the 'close enough' point |
| 15:14.29 | ``Erik | within like 1/1000 radius |
| 15:14.31 | brlcad | eek.. a semi-newton iteration |
| 15:14.36 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 15:15.01 | ``Erik | so if the volume were between initial steps, it'd be ignored |
| 15:15.08 | ``Erik | which gets edge artifacts :/ |
| 15:15.23 | brlcad | how does it deal with the control points? |
| 15:15.30 | brlcad | iterates over each? |
| 15:16.25 | ``Erik | um, $v_{V}=\Sigma_{i}\frac{f_{i}}{|V-p_{i}|}$ |
| 15:17.05 | ``Erik | src/librt/g_metaball.c:203 |
| 15:17.06 | brlcad | yeah.. that's not useful to me :) |
| 15:17.20 | ``Erik | and :220 |
| 15:17.39 | brlcad | ah, so it does iterate over the points |
| 15:17.42 | ``Erik | (shut up, it's ugly, but it works) |
| 15:17.42 | ``Erik | yes |
| 15:18.02 | brlcad | looks like it always does shoot-through too |
| 15:18.08 | ``Erik | has to |
| 15:18.18 | ``Erik | you don't tknow how many chunks of volume it'll go through |
| 15:18.28 | ``Erik | well, heh, n/m |
| 15:18.55 | ``Erik | let me re-read, been a while since I've looked |
| 15:19.14 | ``Erik | no, I think it stops on first hi, always |
| 15:19.52 | ``Erik | no, wait, I do have one-hit in there, :259 |
| 15:20.53 | brlcad | ah, there it is.. first line in shot() |
| 15:21.55 | ``Erik | (bear in mind, the "tactical" purpose for the work was to hook directly to the point evaluator, the shot is just visual candy) :/ |
| 15:22.11 | brlcad | hm, would actually be interesting to see how the root solver fairs |
| 15:22.29 | brlcad | i'd suspect it'd have trouble converging on arbitrary large-point metas |
| 15:22.41 | brlcad | mebbie, dunno |
| 15:22.44 | clock_ | brlcad: the rendering seems to be extremely slow if screws cut in half are present in the scene, even when they take up just a tiny amount of pixels |
| 15:23.16 | ``Erik | one of the future enhancements was to go beyond point and handle line and tri-mesh, perhaps totally arbitrary geometry... :/ |
| 15:23.31 | ``Erik | which'd greatly complicate the root solve method |
| 15:23.35 | brlcad | clock_: it's shouldn't depend on the amount of pixels -- it would be how long it spends on those pixels |
| 15:24.05 | brlcad | having them in the scene is going to slow down neighboring pixels some too due to space partitioning |
| 15:24.11 | clock_ | brlcad: I made the screw a group of turns, each turn is a group of slanted cylinders. So it has a hierarchical structure |
| 15:25.02 | ``Erik | in the geometry tree, it may b e clean... but the raytracing uses a KD-tree, too |
| 15:25.06 | brlcad | your csg tree might be unoptimized too, which could be slowing things way down |
| 15:26.21 | brlcad | ``Erik: do you know anything about /var/tmp disappearing on .bz? |
| 15:26.26 | ``Erik | no? |
| 15:26.38 | brlcad | it's been getting deleted automatically for a couple days now |
| 15:26.39 | ``Erik | anything in the sudo log? |
| 15:26.41 | ``Erik | ugh |
| 15:26.42 | brlcad | nothing |
| 15:26.51 | ``Erik | grep -ri /var/tmp /etc |
| 15:26.52 | ``Erik | ? |
| 15:27.14 | ``Erik | also; sudo crontab -l |
| 15:27.15 | brlcad | yup, nothing of interest |
| 15:27.22 | brlcad | also checked |
| 15:27.28 | ``Erik | hum, /var/tmp should only be deletable by r00tus r00tus |
| 15:27.44 | ``Erik | none of my boxen of that os lose their /var/tmp :/ |
| 15:27.49 | brlcad | exactly -- i was (hoping) you'd set something up to see what all would break |
| 15:28.15 | ``Erik | no, if I'm commiting crazy break testing, I do it on a machine I can walk to and physically touch |
| 15:28.35 | ``Erik | if you think I'm willing to drive to florida to log in on console and fix something, you need to pass that pipe O.o :D |
| 15:28.42 | brlcad | i've got a watch thread going now to see if/when it disappears |
| 15:28.51 | brlcad | it's been happening for like three days now |
| 15:29.21 | ``Erik | the only thing I've done on that machine in the last week or two is log in, run irssi for a minute, kill irssi and log out |
| 15:30.37 | brlcad | i made a symlink this time, no particular reason |
| 15:31.06 | brlcad | only thing suspicious is rootkit attempts via http |
| 15:31.11 | brlcad | to /var/tmp |
| 15:31.27 | ``Erik | that'd be bad |
| 15:31.50 | brlcad | but they seemed rather benign .. they download a linux binary and try to run it |
| 15:32.04 | ``Erik | um, linuxulator is off, right? |
| 15:32.08 | brlcad | it doesn't get that far, of course, though even if it did, it'd fail (tested it ;) |
| 15:32.14 | brlcad | right |
| 15:32.44 | ``Erik | ummmmm, got 'fam' on the machine? |
| 15:32.48 | ``Erik | or tripwire? |
| 15:33.05 | brlcad | so i'm thinking maybe some php intrusion is getting through.. but the worst it can do is delete it's tmpdir |
| 15:33.49 | ``Erik | but only root should be able to rm that dir, and everything php/httpd should touch should be www:www |
| 15:33.50 | brlcad | not at the moment, though pieces of what those do are running |
| 15:34.41 | ``Erik | might be worth putting a tail -f on some /var/log stuff that dumps to another machine |
| 15:34.42 | brlcad | i'm just reaching.. it's the only hint that even generally involved /var/tmp |
| 15:35.54 | brlcad | i'm going to wait for the while test to fail.. so at least i'll have a timeframe that I can hunt for in all the logs |
| 15:36.13 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 15:36.36 | ``Erik | if it's integrity related, that's serious |
| 15:38.37 | brlcad | i'm not finding anything that indicates one way or the other so far, just guessing |
| 15:39.00 | brlcad | just like asking you was a guess that you might be up to something, however unlikely |
| 15:39.14 | ``Erik | nope, not my doing |
| 15:39.38 | brlcad | noticed /usr/tmp being added/removed for portupgrade through the searching, figued "maybe" |
| 15:40.35 | ``Erik | /usr/tmp was added cuz it's "normal" to have it, and removed cuz you complained... if portupgrade is doing it, *shrug* I d'no... but I've been using portmanager and those all leave sudo footprints |
| 15:41.04 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877b0d.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 15:48.20 | ``Erik | hrmph |
| 15:53.04 | brlcad | i don't see why i'd even care |
| 15:53.33 | ``Erik | hrm, you didn't want that dir there "to see what would break" iirc |
| 15:53.56 | ``Erik | wanna grab lunch somewhere? I'm trying to decide whether to bust open a can of soup or not :/ |
| 15:54.02 | brlcad | that was more "it'd be interesting to see what breaks" .. though nothing did |
| 15:54.11 | brlcad | didn't really care either way to begin with |
| 15:54.39 | ``Erik | <-- tries to limit his involvement with that machine |
| 15:56.02 | brlcad | *shrug* |
| 15:56.51 | brlcad | ah, i already started munching on a sandwhich about an hour ago when someone mentioned food |
| 15:57.19 | ``Erik | aight, canned stuff it is :) I'm hitting the grocery store tonight, so'z I can replenish my supplies, don't gotta worry about being down to the last can |
| 15:58.35 | ``Erik | heh, I'm sure mm woulda loaned you a cup o' newdlez |
| 15:58.54 | ``Erik | <-- prefers keeping cans of progresso, is getting old :( |
| 15:58.58 | brlcad | not my fav |
| 15:59.22 | brlcad | i was on a progressor fix a few years ago .. but that died down after a few months |
| 15:59.56 | brlcad | ramen's never died down though.. i turn those babies into gourmet |
| 16:04.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:05.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: disable unnecessary libtool test for fortran |
| 16:06.37 | ``Erik | (do we have any fortran?) |
| 16:07.14 | ``Erik | f2c would be handy for "those other guys" |
| 16:16.23 | brlcad | we provide one example file on how to shoot a ray in fortran |
| 16:17.30 | brlcad | so .. yes we do, but we still don't need a fortran compiler |
| 16:17.30 | ``Erik | hum, I see two .f files |
| 16:17.30 | brlcad | oh yeah, one in patch too |
| 16:17.36 | brlcad | also not used |
| 16:18.02 | ``Erik | if the conv/patch one just a remnant? can it be rm'd? |
| 16:18.22 | brlcad | yeah |
| 16:18.39 | brlcad | just a helper tool to much with patch input files |
| 16:18.44 | brlcad | s/much/muck/ |
| 16:32.55 | brlcad | wow, the GNU scientific library's solver is horribly slow |
| 16:34.51 | brlcad | gsl is 220 seconds vs libbn's 9 seconds |
| 16:35.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:35.49 | brlcad | i had higher hopes for them .. |
| 16:36.13 | brlcad | theirs may be, however, significantly more robust |
| 16:36.49 | brlcad | that could certainly be affecting numbers.. but that is still a huge gap |
| 16:37.15 | brlcad | best so far has been about 30 seconds |
| 16:37.30 | brlcad | (solving 50M random 4th degree polynomials) |
| 16:46.58 | ``Erik | sweet, my last car payments looks like it'll be around july 5th |
| 16:47.08 | ``Erik | s/s / / |
| 16:55.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: change root solver to have coefficients in the right order |
| 18:05.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: implement b-spline interpolation: generating knots and parameters. next up: generating the control points. |
| 18:37.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: convert use of vector to TNT arrays. implement control point generation using JAMA's LU decomposition. |
| 18:48.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: implement nurbs curve generation. an attempt at simplification (test for arc?) should be done at some point. |
| 19:16.06 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@77-56-106-32.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:52.47 | brlcad | well, finally found one that is slightly faster, but it fails to produce a solution |
| 19:54.05 | ``Erik | "My diet of McDonalds and pizza keeps me regular. I take one huge, painful, bloody dump every four days; regular as clockwork." |
| 19:55.04 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:55.27 | ``Erik | (yes, I'm reading poll comments on slashdot. :( ) |
| 19:55.51 | ``Erik | "When I wake up in the morning, I just can't get started until I've had that first, piping hot pot of coffee. Oh, I've tried other enemas..." |
| 20:02.35 | archivist | hehe |
| 20:06.07 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:12.01 | brlcad | hah, so it was just slightly faster, because it was calling an _empty_ base class.. that was all overhead |
| 20:19.27 | ``Erik | neat, saw a couple broad-headed skinks infront of the building |
| 20:21.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: commentification |
| 20:36.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: refactor complex.h and plane.h |
| 20:58.55 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734947.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:49.06 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:33.55 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:33.55 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 23:35.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/avs.c: |
| 23:35.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: first stab at fixing a memory leak on attribute names -- appears to be during a |
| 23:35.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: merge, where adding to an existing doesn't free the existing name (when a new |
| 23:35.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: one is provided). clean up the avs printing summary and doxygen comments too. |
| 23:43.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: ws |
| 23:46.41 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 23:46.41 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 23:54.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: close/free file pointers and buffers on shutdown |
| 23:55.36 | *** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601318.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:56.44 | MinstrelGypsy | tclUnixTime.c in tcl/unix line 609, shouldn't that be _gettimeofday? |
| 00:04.17 | MinstrelGypsy | mmmm 409,409,you're so fine ;) |
| 00:08.08 | MinstrelGypsy | multi-threaded rt, fire a batch of rays and wait on completion sigs, I guess. |
| 00:09.20 | MinstrelGypsy | with semaphoring that should be doable, see you next month :) |
| 00:11.35 | MinstrelGypsy | is there an equivelent to DosWaitEventSem(SEM_INDEFINITE_WAIT) in ansi c? |
| 00:24.56 | MinstrelGypsy | could do it with disk files, I guess, if waitformetogoaway no longer exists resume execution |
| 00:30.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: remove dead decls (#if 0'd). remove obsolete compat macros (also #if 0'd). the decls mostly use private structures, which means they shouldn't be in the public interface (i.e. this file) regardless. |
| 00:31.50 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: that's a question for the tcl folks |
| 00:31.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: okay to assume c89, remove some of the compat decls for older compilers |
| 00:32.32 | brlcad | (re tclunixtime) |
| 00:32.45 | brlcad | i looked at your 9.9.9 mingw build, by the way |
| 00:33.34 | MinstrelGypsy | and? |
| 00:33.41 | brlcad | it actually looked rather good -- would have been distributable had it not relied on X11, but a far better port on the whole regardless |
| 00:34.15 | MinstrelGypsy | thankyou, ill try to get an ogl build out hopefully next week |
| 00:34.23 | MinstrelGypsy | of 7.10 |
| 00:34.28 | brlcad | you'll actually want wgl to build |
| 00:34.37 | brlcad | that's the native windows interface |
| 00:34.50 | MinstrelGypsy | thanks will look at that too |
| 00:35.06 | brlcad | not ogl specifically.. that will rely on x11 |
| 00:35.21 | MinstrelGypsy | may not be any other way to do it |
| 00:35.33 | brlcad | sure there is .. that's what the wgl interface is for |
| 00:35.41 | brlcad | and how it's built through studio |
| 00:35.59 | MinstrelGypsy | is wgl supposed to be compuled with msvc? |
| 00:36.02 | brlcad | mingw one-up's the studio build because it can build the other 300 apps with no effort |
| 00:36.02 | MinstrelGypsy | ah |
| 00:36.11 | brlcad | no, not specifically |
| 00:36.29 | MinstrelGypsy | i understand |
| 00:37.00 | brlcad | it doesn't matter -- that is the native interface, the other is the x11 one -- for a windows distribution, even through cygwin/mingw it should use wgl |
| 00:37.15 | MinstrelGypsy | will try |
| 00:37.22 | brlcad | undoubted will take some configure.ac mods and mods to the Makefile.am files |
| 00:37.43 | MinstrelGypsy | makefile.am why? |
| 00:37.48 | brlcad | at least src/libfb/Makfile.am src/libdm/Makefile.am and probably src/mged/Makefile.am |
| 00:37.52 | MinstrelGypsy | configure i can see |
| 00:37.59 | brlcad | so that it actually tries to compile wgl |
| 00:38.08 | brlcad | i dont' remember if I added them |
| 00:38.17 | MinstrelGypsy | you mean thats not in there i never looked, will tend to it |
| 00:38.23 | brlcad | ah, never mind |
| 00:38.25 | brlcad | i did add them |
| 00:38.28 | brlcad | so yeah, just configure.ac |
| 00:38.29 | MinstrelGypsy | ah i get it |
| 00:38.35 | MinstrelGypsy | good |
| 00:38.43 | brlcad | getting --with-wgl to work |
| 00:38.51 | MinstrelGypsy | thats doable |
| 00:39.16 | brlcad | probably both, --with-wgl and --without-opengl |
| 00:39.24 | MinstrelGypsy | right |
| 00:42.38 | MinstrelGypsy | you guys say type make benchmark to run the benchmark suite, its actually should be make bench |
| 00:45.06 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/496048 <--- benching 7.10.1 |
| 00:45.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: bb comment for searching |
| 00:47.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: remove dead macros (already marked for deprecation) |
| 00:50.47 | MinstrelGypsy | 2880 times faster than vgr, hah |
| 00:51.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h fb.h fbio.h nmg.h pkg.h tclcad.h): don't force USE_PROTOTYPES to be necessarily set to get what we usually want anyways (i.e. proper decls with args) -- check for __STDC__ too to determine how to declare. |
| 01:28.23 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/496085 <---- runtime, yea |
| 01:33.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: differentiate allocation |
| 01:34.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb.c: sanity nulls |
| 01:34.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: meh |
| 01:35.08 | MinstrelGypsy | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside albumn->success :) |
| 01:36.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: rewrite the attribute serialization -- valgrind was reporting invalid memory reads in the bcopy, past what should be valid. new version uses memcpy and takes extra effort to handle null avs names/values. |
| 01:36.22 | MinstrelGypsy | rot 90 0 0 works |
| 01:36.38 | brlcad | why should it "actually" be make bench? |
| 01:37.03 | brlcad | it intentionally supports either |
| 01:37.15 | MinstrelGypsy | because thats what you have to type to get it to run, at least on my copy and i havent chaned a thing concerning that |
| 01:37.31 | MinstrelGypsy | didnt support benchmark here |
| 01:37.39 | MinstrelGypsy | no rule etc |
| 01:37.40 | brlcad | that's because it intentionally supports both .. or are you saying make benchmark doesn't work on yours? |
| 01:37.48 | MinstrelGypsy | right |
| 01:37.53 | MinstrelGypsy | doesnt work |
| 01:37.59 | brlcad | heh, you should say that! |
| 01:38.04 | brlcad | an entirely different statement |
| 01:38.07 | MinstrelGypsy | hah |
| 01:38.41 | MinstrelGypsy | now wgl eh |
| 01:39.08 | brlcad | i don't see how make benchmark wouldn't run for you unless you've editing the makefile.am |
| 01:39.29 | MinstrelGypsy | have *not edited it does not run |
| 01:39.40 | MinstrelGypsy | just a sec |
| 01:39.43 | brlcad | what directory are you in when you run it |
| 01:40.18 | MinstrelGypsy | typo my mistake you're absololutly right |
| 01:40.36 | MinstrelGypsy | make benhcmark doh!!! |
| 01:41.14 | MinstrelGypsy | good thing you were'nt asleep :) |
| 01:44.05 | MinstrelGypsy | same url --> success2 |
| 01:44.15 | MinstrelGypsy | different angle |
| 01:44.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: clobber is phony |
| 01:45.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: the benchmark itself needs to know how to clean up after itself, but go ahead and add the same support for 'make clobber' to delete the plethora of log and pixfiles generated after a run |
| 01:46.08 | MinstrelGypsy | btw there are some of those in cvs |
| 01:46.18 | brlcad | some of what? |
| 01:46.24 | MinstrelGypsy | logs and pix |
| 01:46.28 | brlcad | if it's in cvs, chances are I know about it |
| 01:46.35 | MinstrelGypsy | ok |
| 01:46.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): tick tock, 5 secs, boom. |
| 01:46.56 | brlcad | of course there are.. those are the reference results used to compute your vgr/benchmark statistics |
| 01:47.09 | MinstrelGypsy | doh :) |
| 01:51.07 | MinstrelGypsy | same url ---> success3 diferrent view on things, and ill stop now |
| 01:55.18 | MinstrelGypsy | bwahah stereo frame buffers, fbserv you are good :) |
| 01:57.26 | MinstrelGypsy | same url ---> stereo |
| 01:57.31 | MinstrelGypsy | :) |
| 01:59.33 | MinstrelGypsy | all this on my "toy" cygwin system :) |
| 02:00.18 | MinstrelGypsy | where's the windup key |
| 02:05.51 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/496120 <--- just so you know its really running a portion of your help screen |
| 02:06.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (15 files): welcome to 1990, replace calls to bcopy with memcpy. interestingly enough, valgrind on amd64 linux is showing bcopy() reading more than len bytes (reading to aligned memory internally) |
| 02:19.43 | brlcad | unless you're implying you're untrustworthy, that's not necessary :P |
| 02:20.31 | MinstrelGypsy | heh frayed knot (to being untrustworthy) :) |
| 02:22.13 | MinstrelGypsy | benchmark didn't clean up after itself :P |
| 02:22.44 | brlcad | it's not supposed to |
| 02:22.54 | MinstrelGypsy | cvs complained |
| 02:22.59 | brlcad | huh? |
| 02:23.12 | brlcad | you mean all the ?'s? |
| 02:23.13 | MinstrelGypsy | doing an update |
| 02:23.16 | MinstrelGypsy | yes |
| 02:23.48 | brlcad | those aren't exactly complaints, just unknown files |
| 02:24.04 | brlcad | you can add *.pix *.log to the .cvsignore if you don't want to see them |
| 02:24.11 | brlcad | er *.pix* *.log* |
| 02:24.18 | MinstrelGypsy | ill let you fix the wgl stuff in configure, i'm just gonnna hard code it in for now |
| 02:24.21 | MinstrelGypsy | i know |
| 02:25.28 | brlcad | someone (tm) can add cleanup support to the benchmark suite, i certainly wouldn't object |
| 02:25.28 | brlcad | just not exactly high on any list of concerns |
| 02:25.28 | MinstrelGypsy | nor mine |
| 02:25.28 | brlcad | then why mention it :P |
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| 02:28.16 | brlcad | with that commit earlier, you can run "make clobber" to clean up after the benchmark |
| 02:28.39 | MinstrelGypsy | thankyou i retrieved it |
| 02:28.51 | MinstrelGypsy | and will test it |
| 02:28.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): be even more specific on clobber file patterns |
| 02:29.00 | MinstrelGypsy | if i get this built again |
| 02:32.30 | Twingy | sean, what'd you write down for the waiver on the macbook pro's |
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| 05:40.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: plug a memory leak in asc2g, identified via valgrind, whereby an AVS was getting clobbered shortly after being initialized. simply needed to initialize it without allocating. |
| 06:16.09 | louipc | nice |
| 06:27.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: comment that bu_ptbl_init does indeed allocate :-/ |
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| 06:54.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: call Tcl_Exit() instead of exit() so that tcl can attempt to recover and cleanup resource prior to shutdown -- alas, tcl doesn't clean up properly, but using Tcl_Exit is at least sufficient according to the docs. |
| 06:54.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb.c: doxy |
| 07:01.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: |
| 07:01.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: if a raytrace instance isn't being provided, we can/could presume that cleaning |
| 07:01.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: up after the directories is okay. all of these issues stem from the two |
| 07:01.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bu_ptbl_init() calls that do actually allocate memory (for the table). leave |
| 07:01.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the freeing uncommited for now, just with comments |
| 07:04.13 | yukonbob | how "buildable" is the 7.10.0 code -- is it considered stable, or a work-in-progress? |
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| 14:48.26 | brlcad | yukonbob: it's always both, but in general considered stable |
| 14:49.11 | brlcad | that said, there is a file missing from the source distribution in one of the 3rd-party packages (jove), so you have to disable that package (--disable-jove) |
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| 15:47.26 | louipc | /var/abs/local/brlcad-cvs/src/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 15:47.43 | louipc | I got that error when building :/ |
| 15:50.48 | louipc | ah that's when it does ../src/conv/asc2g bldg391.asc bldg391.g |
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| 17:07.54 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/497110 <----- why would cvs be telling me this? |
| 17:12.53 | MinstrelGypsy | this smells of rotting aquatic marine life |
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| 19:39.52 | Joely | hi, I can't seem to get ADRT/RISE to compile.. :-/ I installed every last sdl package and there's still all these undefined references to libsdl...this is totally a problem with _my_ setup right? |
| 20:04.42 | Twingy | did you install sdl? |
| 20:05.30 | Twingy | check if you have a sdl-config |
| 20:13.04 | Joely | yup i definitely do |
| 20:13.35 | Joely | # sdl-config --libs |
| 20:13.35 | Joely | -L/usr/lib -lSDL |
| 20:13.37 | Twingy | paste a few lines of your output |
| 20:17.21 | Joely | http://pastebin.ca/497353 |
| 20:18.02 | Twingy | how did you install SDL |
| 20:18.07 | Twingy | compile or package? |
| 20:18.52 | Joely | package from apt |
| 20:19.09 | Twingy | looks like it didn't pick up all the (right) dependencies |
| 20:19.56 | Twingy | you could always try compiling it |
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| 17:48.58 | MinstrelGypsy | think i'll give up on the 7.10 code tree |
| 17:52.18 | smallfoot- | oh? |
| 17:53.52 | MinstrelGypsy | won't build, always bombs out on fbserv with undefines to X stuff |
| 17:54.17 | MinstrelGypsy | ``Erik helped me but still happens |
| 17:54.55 | MinstrelGypsy | 7.8.4 is reliable ...here :) |
| 17:55.02 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 18:06.35 | louipc | well someone's gonna have to work out the kinks :P |
| 18:07.07 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 18:07.41 | MinstrelGypsy | kinks? man we're talking 90 degree warps :P |
| 18:08.10 | louipc | just need a bigger iron |
| 18:09.07 | MinstrelGypsy | heh it stands up to howitzer shells |
| 18:13.21 | MinstrelGypsy | bugious unfindablness ( have come across a few in my time ) :) |
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| 19:02.21 | MinstrelGypsy | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos work albumn works |
| 19:32.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): even more specific, to be sure we only delete benchmark files by iterating over each test. |
| 19:38.01 | MinstrelGypsy | same url 2 photos, caught in the act and act complete, dunno why it flipped but... |
| 19:45.35 | MinstrelGypsy | got it working with xming too (happy daze) :) |
| 20:15.04 | louipc_ | xml error here |
| 20:15.23 | louipc_ | MinstrelGypsy: for your page |
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| 20:21.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: |
| 20:21.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: revamp the implementation of most path-finding routines, and add a new |
| 20:21.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bu_argv0_full_path() routine for determining the full-path to the current |
| 20:21.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: executing binary. remove the atexit memory handler, instead using static |
| 20:21.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: buffers. give bu_ipwd() one more means to determine the current path (via |
| 20:21.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: invoking pwd). |
| 20:22.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): change bu_argv0() to not take any parameters, preferring instead that apps only use bu_setprogname(), passing the full argv[0]. |
| 20:23.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_argv0_full_path() and remove the bu_argv0() argument |
| 20:25.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (whereis.c which.c): clean up debug to indicate the function name, remove the latter checking statement (since bu_file_exists has its own) |
| 20:28.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: |
| 20:28.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: massive refactoring of the src path handling including avoiding the dynamic |
| 20:28.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: atexit memory fugliness. improve the actual searching for a src dir to not |
| 20:28.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: require allocations. actually only check for init.tcl/tk.tcl one now. make the |
| 20:28.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: entire routine more cross-platform, using BU_DIR_SEPARATOR and BU_PATH_SEPARATOR |
| 20:28.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: respectively when building up and searching for paths. |
| 21:55.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: plug a leak valgrind detected, free the searched vls in root/data routines. |
| 22:28.48 | MinstrelGypsy | you mean you guys aren't seeing that page? |
| 22:31.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: free allocated memory for cmd_list vls |
| 22:45.54 | MinstrelGypsy | windows firefox loads it fine |
| 22:47.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c ged.c): unlink the variables we link on shutdown so we can clean up memory tcl allocated for managing them. delete the tcl interpreter on shutdown too. |
| 23:15.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ack, pass mged_global_variable_teardown a freaking interpreter. release our semaphores too. |
| 23:44.59 | MinstrelGypsy | work albumn -> rotated (it works) |
| 23:49.19 | MinstrelGypsy | btw thats running in a pure windows environment |
| 23:51.14 | bjorkBSD | pure as in no cygwin? |
| 23:51.23 | MinstrelGypsy | bonus... works with winaxepro too |
| 23:51.40 | MinstrelGypsy | as in several cygwin dlls included |
| 23:52.44 | MinstrelGypsy | don't need to have Cygwin installed or even cygwinx |
| 23:53.34 | MinstrelGypsy | do you need to see the winaxepro pix or will you take my word for it :) |
| 23:54.40 | MinstrelGypsy | time to go smell the cedars, bbiab :) |
| 00:30.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.c: release allocated resources, clean valgrind report |
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| 02:07.52 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: in about 5 hours, you can evaluate a mingw build of brlcad-7.8.4 that has the ogl interface enabled, let me know will you. |
| 02:13.33 | MinstrelGypsy | remember the \tmp dir :) |
| 03:21.49 | brlcad | MinstrelGypsy: I already told you that I'm completely not interested in versions prior to 7.10 |
| 03:24.15 | brlcad | it would be a waste of time, and stagnates development progress |
| 04:20.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: free the semaphore structures we allocated |
| 04:21.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: apparently attr and make_name were added |
| 04:25.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: unix and drawDataAxes added |
| 04:28.01 | brlcad | also, you say you have troubles compiling 7.10.0 but so far you are the only one reporting these issues, so you'll either have to help track the issues down or it will stay that way until someone else runs into the issue |
| 04:28.51 | brlcad | i'm not about to just randomly guess based on the random bits of info you often relay back, also not an efficient use of time |
| 04:33.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 15 dirs): |
| 04:33.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: since tcl/tk are being compiled dynamic now instead of static and because |
| 04:33.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: they're not libtool libraries, libtool fails to find their uninstalled |
| 04:33.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: .so/.dylib files in src/other, and the wrapper script over binaries fails to |
| 04:33.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: search the provided -L paths. so here we manually set LD/DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH |
| 04:33.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: before attempting to invoke the (uninstalled) binary during the compilation |
| 04:33.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: process. |
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| 06:55.48 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 15:05.58 | louipc | woohoo it compiled |
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| 15:14.03 | louipc | hehe |
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| 15:46.44 | MinstrelGypsy | if louipc got it to compile, maybe i won't give up on 7-10 :) |
| 16:06.14 | louipc | MinstrelGypsy: yeah! |
| 16:06.34 | MinstrelGypsy | good going :) |
| 16:11.58 | MinstrelGypsy | gotta get this freaking thing going, the build i uploaded last night is only 7.8.4, just wanted to prove a point :) |
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| 17:03.51 | louipc | ./bench/run.sh: line 843: bc: command not found |
| 17:05.53 | louipc | I also got this when running 'make benchmark' -> moss.pix: No such file or directory |
| 17:06.03 | louipc | I do have the file in pix/ |
| 17:08.32 | ``Erik | erm, you don't have bc installed? O.o |
| 17:08.33 | louipc | guess not |
| 17:08.35 | louipc | hahh |
| 17:08.49 | ``Erik | it's a fairly core program... an infix calculator |
| 17:09.38 | louipc | ah it's not installed by default on my distro |
| 17:10.39 | louipc | ok still the error for pix files |
| 17:11.21 | ``Erik | did you build in-dir or out of? and where are you r unning 'make benchmark'? and I assume that's 7.10.0 ? |
| 17:11.46 | louipc | cvs in the root dir |
| 17:11.58 | louipc | should I got to bench/ ? |
| 17:12.03 | louipc | *go to |
| 17:12.17 | ``Erik | I don't think so... *shrug* I d'no :D I dont' run benchmarks often |
| 17:12.43 | louipc | I'm not interested in it usually just decided to test it |
| 17:19.23 | louipc | ``Erik: does brlcad use bc elsewhere? I may have to add it as a depends |
| 17:19.39 | louipc | or dependency |
| 17:19.42 | ``Erik | I don't think so... I might fix it so it doesn't use bc :/ *shrug* |
| 17:20.13 | ``Erik | like use tclsh instead o.O |
| 17:20.24 | louipc | yeah that makes sense |
| 17:21.59 | ``Erik | hrmmmm, brlcad.spec.in uses it to guess at how parallel to make the build (redhat crap) |
| 17:23.57 | ``Erik | looks like that's it |
| 17:24.40 | louipc | ok just worried about run-time use in scripts |
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| 17:25.18 | ``Erik | not that I can see |
| 17:35.28 | louipc | ah I see the RAYTRACE error is just reporting tests on the pix files. seems like it's actually a problem with finding libtk8.5.so . That's what all the log files give |
| 17:36.50 | ``Erik | hum, this is before installing? might have to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH? |
| 17:38.27 | louipc | I figured it'd work pre-install as INSTALL seems to imply |
| 17:43.06 | louipc | ok I set that path and it's working |
| 17:43.13 | ``Erik | it used to, but the tk stuff has been getting dramatically re-done |
| 17:43.20 | ``Erik | to facilitate aqua-tk I think |
| 17:43.59 | ``Erik | (remember, cvs is the work in progress... it SHOULD be far better in the releases...) |
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| 17:44.11 | louipc | :D |
| 17:44.36 | louipc | i also needed to specify the dir for the tcl library |
| 17:46.36 | ``Erik | neato, rt crashed and spammed a busted stack into rt-<pid>-bomb.log |
| 17:46.49 | louipc | ! |
| 17:50.53 | ``Erik | kill(getpid(),9); neato :D |
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| 19:52.38 | brlcad | louipc: intersting.. it's supposed to fall back to dc if there is no bc |
| 19:53.06 | brlcad | though it's quite odd that you'd not have bc .. it's one of the older calculators |
| 19:53.28 | brlcad | doesn't matter if you go to bench or run via make |
| 19:53.29 | ``Erik | I know debian has the ability to exist without bc or dc installed... :/ |
| 19:53.54 | ``Erik | and I d'no if using expr for shell math is adequate :) |
| 19:54.09 | brlcad | yeah, I've seen debian without bc, though I think dc is in the base |
| 19:54.28 | brlcad | it isn't, or I would have used it |
| 19:54.41 | brlcad | need floating point arith |
| 19:55.02 | brlcad | the problem is that it failed to detect bc was missing, should be a simple fix |
| 19:55.23 | poolio | hey brlcad, any news? |
| 19:55.41 | brlcad | poolio: you've been the talk of the week |
| 19:55.47 | poolio | oh boy =) |
| 20:05.15 | louipc | bc and dc come in the same pkg in my distro heh |
| 20:07.31 | louipc | it's not installed by default but is in the 'core' of pkgs |
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| 20:56.08 | brlcad | louipc: does your os have a packaging system? |
| 20:56.27 | brlcad | if it does, i'd just make that 'core' a dependency and be done with it :) |
| 20:56.59 | louipc | brlcad: yep that was my thought |
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| 12:52.13 | ``Erik | hrmph, a fire on the cutty sark :/ |
| 13:07.24 | archivist | A bit grim yes, good job the best bits were off site |
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| 14:02.17 | ``Erik | which users are whining about as it doesn't work on linux/amd64, according to a hallway discussion |
| 14:41.54 | ``Erik | "shady missionaries... er, mercenaries! MERCENARIES!" |
| 14:49.38 | brlcad | ``Erik: all of the commands that end up invoking an xterm/new window/editor are reportedly non-functional |
| 14:49.45 | brlcad | ted, red, edcode, etc |
| 14:51.49 | ``Erik | ok, dave l told me that people were whining to him about the installed versions on those linux opterons |
| 14:52.08 | ``Erik | so I said I'd mention it to you, as it may've been fixed or already known |
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| 18:18.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/Makefile.am: example build rules to make compile a test program |
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| 18:45.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/remapid.c: s/ -> /->/ |
| 18:56.41 | ``Erik | GRASS ZAMBONI! |
| 18:57.30 | smallfoot- | i dont know grass zamboni |
| 19:01.54 | ``Erik | http://www.comet7.com/ |
| 19:41.20 | MinstrelGypsy | how to be the king of the yard, lie down when the grass zamboni passes by :) |
| 19:53.45 | ``Erik | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/kitty_battery.jpg |
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| 20:18.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (3 files): new bounding volume support for opennurbs (part of closestPoint impl) |
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| 20:28.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (brlcad_brep.cpp PullbackCurve.cpp): add debugging output and modify to call new pullback_curve routine. discovered openNURBS does not implement GetClosestPoint!!! |
| 20:29.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: add files to build bounding volume code (in development) |
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| 00:20.29 | Joely | ugh, i cannot get the g-* converters working on my database.... it fails with : bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler : FAILED in Boolean evaluation: /torx_screw.c/torx_hex.c |
| 00:20.38 | Joely | any ideas? |
| 00:22.25 | Twingy | try doing a g2asc and asc2g |
| 00:25.03 | Joely | ok that worked |
| 00:25.11 | Joely | but still no luck with things like g-obj |
| 00:29.17 | Twingy | sounds like a bug |
| 00:29.25 | Twingy | does it work on the sample databases? |
| 00:31.35 | Joely | yup |
| 00:31.54 | Twingy | corrupt database maybe? |
| 00:31.58 | Joely | i don't think so....it renders fine... |
| 00:32.29 | Joely | want me to send the database? all it is is a very simple bolt |
| 00:37.06 | Twingy | kinda busy atm, might want to bug "brlcad" about it |
| 00:37.43 | Joely | ah ok, thanks |
| 00:51.36 | MinstrelGypsy | brlcad: that 7.8.4 mingw build i sent, I know its old code, but do what you want with it, and i'm still working on 7.10 |
| 02:22.42 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/503886 <---- my "toy compiler" spotted this :) |
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| 03:10.02 | MinstrelGypsy | somebody asked me an honest question yesterday, "What do you do man?", I answered quite honestly, not much of anything really. |
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| 04:00.31 | brlcad | Joely: i'll let you know what I find out |
| 04:01.01 | Joely | thanks! |
| 04:08.33 | brlcad | Joely: how fast is your computer? :) |
| 04:08.52 | Twingy | what kinda chip you got in there a dorrito? |
| 04:08.53 | brlcad | it is just a tesselation tolerance issue because the threads are so tiny |
| 04:09.04 | bjorkBSD | hahah |
| 04:09.10 | brlcad | they're pressing up against the minimium distance tolerance threshold |
| 04:09.48 | brlcad | so it's basically trying to resolve polygons that are bigger than your threads themselves, and saying "not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent" |
| 04:09.54 | Joely | hmm it's 2.4 ghz...amd64 |
| 04:09.59 | Joely | OHHH |
| 04:10.01 | brlcad | okay, that shouldn't be too bad |
| 04:10.13 | brlcad | try: g-obj -D 0.0001 -o test.obj ZIFFG256.g torx_screw.c |
| 04:10.17 | Joely | oh |
| 04:10.20 | Joely | ok |
| 04:10.21 | brlcad | it'll take a couple minutes |
| 04:10.34 | brlcad | stupid N^3 algorithm in there |
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| 04:14.34 | brlcad | you could even do 0.001 and it should converge |
| 04:16.22 | Twingy | sean, I got poor mans xm satellite radio now |
| 04:16.52 | Twingy | shell script that sucks down a few hours of my favorite streaming radio stations and puts on my 2GB microsd card each morning that I pop into my phone |
| 04:17.39 | brlcad | hah |
| 04:17.44 | Twingy | 8 hours of music for 5 stations |
| 04:17.54 | Twingy | in case I get tired of one |
| 04:18.01 | brlcad | that's funny |
| 04:18.18 | Twingy | it's not like it matters that it's old... |
| 04:18.24 | Twingy | unless you are listening to news I guess |
| 04:18.36 | brlcad | yeah, so long as it's not news channels or something |
| 04:18.43 | Twingy | jah |
| 04:19.08 | Twingy | in a couple years I'm sure my phone will hold 4 or 8GB... so maybe I'll do tv too |
| 04:19.16 | Twingy | you remember my tv tuner card in the bsd box? |
| 04:19.35 | Twingy | I could do little mpgs too I suppose |
| 04:19.39 | Twingy | hand held tivo ^_^ |
| 04:19.50 | brlcad | poor mans itv? |
| 04:20.03 | Twingy | stargate on my phone would be nifty |
| 04:20.50 | Twingy | would help pass the time in those drug / security training things |
| 04:21.15 | Twingy | those itv boxes get hot! |
| 04:21.24 | Twingy | you can cook ramen noodles on them |
| 04:21.58 | Joely | brlcad! it worked! |
| 04:22.02 | Joely | thank you very much! |
| 04:26.53 | brlcad | Joely: no problem, glad to be of service |
| 04:27.17 | brlcad | be interested in seeing your completed model |
| 04:28.06 | Joely | really? i'm trying to make a zif socket! |
| 04:29.50 | brlcad | yeah, any brl-cad models become showcase material, stuff to share and show what sorts of neat things others are doing |
| 04:31.00 | Twingy | path trace it ;) |
| 04:34.04 | brlcad | maybe that's what I'll do this weekend |
| 04:34.27 | brlcad | (in a box, whatever) |
| 04:35.27 | brlcad | Twingy: do I need to model the light in brl-cad or in your format? (i.e. will it convert my lights) |
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| 03:19.35 | cadguy | Greetings all |
| 03:27.28 | MinstrelGypsy | howdy |
| 03:37.42 | cadguy | sunset tonight in SLC was pretty |
| 03:38.40 | cadguy | How about C |
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| 16:18.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_math.h opennurbs_math.cpp): Add simple near_zero function |
| 16:34.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/brlcad_boundingvolume.h: Implement intersection routines |
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| 17:14.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (brlcad_surfacetree.cpp brlcad_surfacetree.h Makefile.am): Sketch out skeleton surfacetree implementation and add to opennurbs build |
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| 18:28.38 | b0ef | when using dxf-g, I get a db with all the objects displayed as one; any way to prevent this? |
| 18:29.06 | b0ef | I get an object called Meshes.c.1/R |
| 18:30.59 | b0ef | when I draw this, it draws every original object |
| 18:31.30 | brlcad | not sure I follow the question |
| 18:31.36 | brlcad | what's in Meshes.c.1? |
| 18:31.54 | b0ef | well, I used blender to create some objects, then exported it to a DXF file |
| 18:32.12 | b0ef | when I convert the DXF to g, every object is now one object, to my understanding |
| 18:33.21 | b0ef | I've never done this before, so I might be thinking wrong or doing something wrong |
| 18:33.43 | b0ef | I expected when I do ls in the database, that every object gets its own name |
| 18:34.47 | b0ef | when I do "draw Meshes.c.1", it draws everything on the screen, even though Meshes.c.1 was originally multiple objects |
| 18:34.49 | brlcad | it depends on what's actually in the dxf file, structurally |
| 18:35.11 | brlcad | Meshes.c.1 indicates that is a combination of some thing(s) |
| 18:35.29 | brlcad | run "l Meshes.c.1" or use the Geometry Browser under the tools menu |
| 18:35.40 | brlcad | to see what is "in" Meshes.c.1 |
| 18:36.22 | b0ef | right, it lists "u bot.s1" |
| 18:36.52 | brlcad | just the one object, eh? |
| 18:37.40 | b0ef | I'm trying to copy the text it outputted;) |
| 18:38.21 | b0ef | but, yeah, only lists one object |
| 18:38.33 | b0ef | so something is wrong with blender DXF export, then |
| 18:38.51 | brlcad | glancing through the sources, it's going to make a combination for every layer in the dxf |
| 18:39.04 | brlcad | not necessarily, it could simply be a limitation of the dxf improter |
| 18:39.29 | b0ef | right, so I should export two DXF files and merge the databases, then |
| 18:39.39 | b0ef | if I want two objects, that is |
| 18:39.48 | brlcad | yeah, probably |
| 18:39.56 | b0ef | right, I'll try; thanks |
| 18:40.22 | brlcad | hm, yeah, looking at the sources now, it looks like the only groupings it is going to make is one per layer and one for a top-level |
| 18:40.45 | brlcad | you could put each object into a layer into blender, then export one dxf -- that should bring them all in separate |
| 18:41.06 | b0ef | right, I'll try |
| 18:43.06 | b0ef | hmm, no |
| 18:43.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: enhance dxf-g to create more than just one combination per layer |
| 18:43.58 | b0ef | well, it's still one combination, here |
| 18:46.27 | brlcad | you have an 'all' object along with at least one Meshes.c.# object, yes? |
| 18:46.37 | b0ef | yes |
| 18:46.38 | brlcad | blender's dxf exporter might not preserve layers |
| 18:46.54 | b0ef | I see |
| 18:47.01 | brlcad | have to look in the dxf file, see if there are multiple layer directives |
| 18:47.18 | b0ef | yeah, I'm looking now |
| 18:47.23 | b0ef | anything I can grep for?;) |
| 18:47.42 | brlcad | i don't remember the format that well, probably LAYER something |
| 18:47.49 | b0ef | it says SECTION 2 |
| 18:48.06 | brlcad | http://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/dxf_format.pdf |
| 18:48.23 | b0ef | right, thanks |
| 18:51.19 | brlcad | yeah, LAYER followed by a name |
| 18:51.44 | b0ef | weird, no LAYER in that file;) |
| 18:52.00 | brlcad | ah, so then yeah -- blender's not preserving layers |
| 18:52.07 | b0ef | indeed |
| 18:52.25 | b0ef | do you plan to support collada? |
| 18:55.35 | b0ef | right, exported as two files and merged database;) - thanks |
| 18:56.13 | brlcad | collada's been on the radar for a few years |
| 18:56.33 | brlcad | it's a less than ideal format, but we'll probably end up supporting it just because of popularity to gaming systems |
| 18:58.33 | b0ef | I thought it was the answer to the prayers, after it got NURBS atleast;) |
| 18:58.55 | b0ef | s/got/gets/ |
| 19:12.15 | brlcad | it certainly helps -- and having nurbs and bspline surface support does make it exceptionally more interesting than it was as a polygonal format |
| 19:12.43 | brlcad | for a CAD system, though -- the prevailing format is STEP, which has supplanted IGES |
| 19:13.54 | brlcad | not a hard format to support -- probably could have an importer or exporter done in a few weeks .. but it'd be a minimal payoff so far for cad purposes |
| 19:14.21 | brlcad | step, however, is going to have a massive payoff .. and take many months to implement, much more manpower |
| 19:18.41 | b0ef | ;) |
| 19:34.39 | PrezKennedy | haha nurbs |
| 19:53.29 | b0ef | PrezKennedy: ? |
| 19:54.52 | yukonbob | afternoon -- I'm brandnew to brl-cad, but not brandnew to tcl -- q: I'm running 7.8.4, and if I try "puts [expr 1+1]" in mged, the [...] part isn't replaced by the output of "expr..." Is there a way to get that command substitution a la basic Tcl? |
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| 22:18.23 | brlcad | yukonbob: that's because the tcl shell in mged has two operating modes -- a tcl evaluation mode (not the default) and a object name globbing mode (the default) |
| 22:19.00 | brlcad | you have to escape the globbing characters or set the mode to tcl evaluation |
| 22:20.02 | brlcad | "set glob_compat_mode" shows whether it's on or off (also on the File->Preferences->Special Characters menu) |
| 22:21.08 | brlcad | what that means basically is whether something like "ls [a-d]_foo_*.r" will work or not for matching name patterns like on a command shell |
| 22:22.58 | brlcad | if glob_compat_mode is on, you have to eval the strings too -- e.g. eval puts \[expr 1+1\] |
| 22:25.21 | brlcad | otherwise turn it off (set glob_compat_mode 0), then your puts expr will work as is |
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| 22:35.00 | yukonbob | brlcad: nice -- thx :) |
| 22:38.48 | brlcad | yukonbob: no problem |
| 22:57.56 | b0ef | when using the rt command, the window disappears; any way to avoid that? |
| 23:04.33 | brlcad | rt -F/dev/Xl |
| 23:04.38 | brlcad | or rt -F/dev/ogll |
| 23:04.54 | brlcad | or set FB_FILE environment variable to /dev/Xl or /dev/ogll |
| 23:04.58 | brlcad | or use an fbserv |
| 23:05.04 | brlcad | ;) |
| 23:05.39 | brlcad | it's a stupid default that it disappears, but I haven't researched what the impact of reversing it would be |
| 23:06.32 | brlcad | the choice goes back to a day where various read-only devices didn't have a concept of lingering .. they just existed (early 80's *ahem*) |
| 23:06.35 | b0ef | right, rt -F/dev/X1 is what I did use |
| 23:06.51 | brlcad | ex ell |
| 23:06.51 | brlcad | not ex one |
| 23:06.57 | brlcad | ell for "linger" |
| 23:07.01 | b0ef | ah, damn |
| 23:07.13 | b0ef | hehe |
| 23:07.36 | brlcad | the format is /dev/DEVICEoptions |
| 23:07.48 | brlcad | there are various options available, can run fbhelp to see most |
| 23:07.59 | b0ef | right, thanks |
| 23:08.16 | b0ef | is there any way to just render into a buffer, then display this at a later time? |
| 23:08.43 | brlcad | hm, i guess fbhelp doesn't show the options, but does list the available devices |
| 23:08.58 | brlcad | "display this at a later time"? |
| 23:09.04 | brlcad | you can always render to a file |
| 23:09.16 | b0ef | yeah, as in render into a buffer, then hit a command to display this buffer |
| 23:09.32 | brlcad | that's sort of what fbserv is for |
| 23:09.43 | brlcad | though it persists |
| 23:09.47 | b0ef | right, nice; I'll read on it |
| 23:09.50 | brlcad | either that or using the shared memory option |
| 23:10.54 | b0ef | is there any command to check the status of a render? |
| 23:11.20 | brlcad | nope |
| 23:11.33 | b0ef | the way I do now, is turn off framebuffer, then hit render, cause framebuffer nearly grinds my computer to a halt;) |
| 23:11.58 | brlcad | the framebuffer does or the raytrace? |
| 23:12.12 | b0ef | the framebuffer |
| 23:12.20 | brlcad | er, that's odd |
| 23:12.20 | b0ef | when it's on, everything is dead slow |
| 23:12.36 | brlcad | that's .. "unexpected" |
| 23:13.01 | brlcad | does it do it to an fbserv too? |
| 23:13.14 | b0ef | really; I've not rendered that much in brl-cad so I might be doing something wrong; I have not played with fbserv |
| 23:13.25 | b0ef | I will play some more and report back |
| 23:14.53 | brlcad | try: fbserv -s800 0 /dev/X & |
| 23:15.34 | b0ef | right; I will; just have a gigantic render going on |
| 23:15.42 | brlcad | rt -F0 -s800 whatever.g someobject |
| 23:16.09 | brlcad | if you've got mged already open, change that 0 on both the fbserv and rt to some other number -- that's the port number |
| 23:16.31 | b0ef | right |
| 23:17.13 | b0ef | am I supposed to be able to connect a GUI to the core after I've started it? |
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| 23:17.27 | b0ef | is it a three tier architecture? |
| 23:39.51 | brlcad | fbserv provides the gui |
| 23:40.29 | brlcad | you can extract the image at any time with separate guis if you want with various fb-* tools |
| 23:54.05 | b0ef | brlcad: right, but can you connect an interactive modeler UI like mged after you've started the core? |
| 23:58.45 | cadguy | Do we have a clean head at the moment? I'd like to do an update. |
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| 00:33.13 | b0ef | brlcad: yup, that didn't slow things down, but the render was black; I'll try with some simple geometry |
| 00:40.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: progress status during raytrace |
| 01:08.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: |
| 01:08.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix raytrace synchronization bug introduced via valgrinding. release pairs up |
| 01:08.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: with acquire, not init. need some other (new) routine to release the memory |
| 01:08.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: allocated during init and probably some atexit() handler to free that memory. |
| 01:52.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 01:52.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix anonymous report of configure failure on 7.10.0 where turning off urt would |
| 01:52.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: result in a configure failure. the problem was a variety of checks for |
| 01:52.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: configure settings that checked for the wrong value (!no instead of !yes, where |
| 01:52.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: default is "auto"). so the default worked, but not when the 3rd party lib was |
| 01:52.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: disabled. |
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| 02:29.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: auto_path tcl initialization startup code was once again re-written and verified via valgrind. this should fix a crash (that I don't have ready access to) reported via irc on a debian platform. |
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| 02:51.34 | Joel1 | hey....umm brlcad, do you remember the command line you told me to put in yesterday to allow the tesselation tolerance to not go kaput on my computer? i can't find any logs...and my computer shut down before i wrote it down :( |
| 02:52.13 | brlcad | run the command without any args and it should display usage |
| 02:52.32 | Joel1 | ah, but i don't know exactly what the problem was... |
| 02:52.45 | brlcad | i believe it was the distance tolerance |
| 02:52.55 | brlcad | so, probably -D |
| 02:53.04 | Joel1 | ok thank you |
| 02:53.09 | brlcad | no prob |
| 03:17.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: fix horrible, horrible oversight typo that prevents brlcad_version() from working |
| 03:19.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: extensively improve the g-dxf usage statement, add options, add version info |
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| 05:11.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: quietly return -1 if given null or there is no file pointer opened |
| 05:25.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for sync for db_sync() |
| 05:26.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: condense the windows section, using the 'b' mode identifier is fine on non-_WIN32 platforms (c90 defines it to do nothing) |
| 05:27.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: ws |
| 05:38.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: return quietly if dbip is null or if the file pointer isn't set, plus some ws |
| 05:47.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: quotes |
| 05:47.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: quotes, and update comment |
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| 13:24.17 | Haleiwa | brlcad: how many days do you rest before exercising a muscle again? |
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| 14:14.26 | brlcad | Haleiwa: depends on the muscle and whether I'm bulking or conditioning |
| 14:15.57 | Haleiwa | brlcad: for bulking? |
| 14:16.10 | brlcad | if i'm bulking, it's usually 48 hours after it stops hurting or 72 hours after working out, whichever is longer -- which is basically if you workout a particular muscle heavy on monday, it's not focused again until thursday (and it's left alone in the days in-between) |
| 14:17.37 | brlcad | some mucles like abs can take more, and it depends on your frame, but that's a schedule that's pretty good for most -- the trick is really hitting only one or two mucles on any given day, and then leaving it alone |
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| 14:21.54 | Haleiwa | brlcad: I go to gym every 3 days and work out all the muscles and they don't hurt then it's the same isn't it? |
| 14:22.36 | Haleiwa | brlcad: I have problem with biceps then increase weight only very slowly is there some trick? |
| 14:23.01 | Haleiwa | I feel like the signal into the muscle is too weak, like the muscle could do much more but the brain tells it too little |
| 14:23.55 | Haleiwa | other muscles like triceps go forward like hell I already hit the limit of the machine with triceps |
| 14:30.43 | brlcad | Haleiwa: that "could" be fine, but not for biceps -- the smaller muscles need more than that to rest once they start getting bigger, even after they don't hurt |
| 14:31.17 | Haleiwa | so I should train the biceps less often? |
| 14:31.20 | brlcad | i usually give biceps another 24 at best, e.g. monday to friday |
| 14:32.21 | Haleiwa | and if I do biceps only once per week is it fine? |
| 14:32.30 | Haleiwa | cause getting into the gym costs some time |
| 14:32.39 | brlcad | the other thing, though, is that if you're going every three days (presumabely M -> Thu -> Sun -> Wed -> Sat -> etc) .. I don't buy that you're focusing on the given muscles enough :) |
| 14:32.50 | Haleiwa | Thanks for advice, these words help much more than mindless incorrect lifting of irons |
| 14:33.09 | Haleiwa | I do all the muscles every time I go |
| 14:33.29 | brlcad | that can be a problem |
| 14:33.42 | Haleiwa | what can it cause? what should I do instead? |
| 14:34.31 | Haleiwa | or I could actually train the biceps asynchronously because I have a little dumbbell for that at home |
| 14:34.32 | brlcad | i mean, you can't be doing benchpress and triceps and shoulders on the same day and expect all three to max out nicely |
| 14:34.38 | Haleiwa | so you say every 5 days the biceps? |
| 14:34.42 | brlcad | once you do any one of those three, you cheat the other two |
| 14:34.46 | Haleiwa | no I get tired |
| 14:34.57 | Haleiwa | sure yes I get tired |
| 14:35.08 | Haleiwa | and the others just the signal from the brain gets weaker |
| 14:35.30 | brlcad | that's what I mean about sticking to just two muscles -- I give about a half-hour to each muscle |
| 14:35.51 | Haleiwa | and what you do with the muscles you don't focus? No training or do you give them some low-intensity? |
| 14:35.54 | brlcad | low, slow, heavy, controlled reps |
| 14:36.18 | Haleiwa | and the focused get what? |
| 14:36.40 | brlcad | if you're lifting for bulk, leave the ones off you just worked out alone |
| 14:36.40 | Haleiwa | I think my training was crap :) |
| 14:36.54 | Haleiwa | I don't get it |
| 14:37.03 | brlcad | they really are in recovery mode until they've had their three days or so of rest |
| 14:37.04 | Haleiwa | I want to lift for bulk only |
| 14:37.31 | Haleiwa | but then I have to go more often than every 3 days |
| 14:37.40 | brlcad | if you lift light in the meantime, you're pressing them to respond to strength training (which limits growth capacity) |
| 14:38.07 | brlcad | yeah, every 3 days isn't ideal |
| 14:38.24 | Haleiwa | so if I go every 2 days and I do half of the body every visit? |
| 14:38.33 | Haleiwa | Plus do the bicepses asynchronously at home every 5 days? |
| 14:38.34 | brlcad | every day or even every other day lets you respond to each muscle after they've had their recovery |
| 14:39.19 | Haleiwa | wohoo, this training will surely work :) |
| 14:39.20 | brlcad | depends what you mean by half the body, but yeah, that's more doable |
| 14:39.27 | brlcad | i hear that and it sounds like a 4 hour workout |
| 14:39.30 | Haleiwa | I mean half of the muscles |
| 14:39.58 | Haleiwa | half of the machines |
| 14:40.39 | Haleiwa | is it a problem that the muscles get 4 days for recovery instead of 3? |
| 14:40.43 | Haleiwa | cannot they get lazy? |
| 14:41.20 | brlcad | seriously, a half hour per muscle -- intense focus on getting the muscle to fail within a few heavy reps with some warmup and cooldown reps -- and if you do something like shoulders one day, that means you can't do low chest or arms that day |
| 14:42.26 | Haleiwa | what's the factor that gets optimized? |
| 14:42.42 | Haleiwa | that I feel the muscle is maximum tired after leaving the room? |
| 14:43.48 | brlcad | like if you want shoulders on some day, you do heavy military or incline (but not both) followed by shoulder raises followed by heavy shrugs, followed by dumbell shoulder work to finish -- something like that |
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| 14:44.06 | brlcad | specifically avoiding bench, arms, and back |
| 14:44.56 | brlcad | if done on monday, that would/should basically leave your shoulders out until wed/thurs |
| 14:45.31 | brlcad | also means you can't do bench/arms/back until tues/wed at the earliest |
| 14:45.51 | Haleiwa | what is the best exercise for upper pecs? |
| 14:45.57 | Haleiwa | my upper pecs are total crap |
| 14:46.01 | Haleiwa | and the lower are much better |
| 14:46.18 | brlcad | incline and pec deck |
| 14:46.42 | Haleiwa | incline is incline bench with dumbbells? |
| 14:47.59 | brlcad | and yes -- the factor that's optimized is that the muscle you are working on is noticeably tired, but not those immediately around it (i.e. isolate the area somewhat) |
| 14:48.25 | brlcad | then the trick is to get that fatigue with as few reps as possible using patterns that your muscles respond to |
| 14:48.40 | Haleiwa | why as few reps as possible? |
| 14:48.43 | Haleiwa | to save time? |
| 14:48.49 | brlcad | max'ing out is critical for the big muscles, but really hard without spotters |
| 14:49.17 | Haleiwa | harry spotter is the guy who catches falling barbells? |
| 14:49.33 | brlcad | no, not to save time -- even 30 reps can take a half an hour if done right |
| 14:49.57 | Haleiwa | why as few reps as possible then? |
| 14:50.10 | brlcad | fewer heavy reps build bulk, stimulate muscles for growth |
| 14:50.25 | Haleiwa | but one superheavy rep just tears the tendons away doesn't? |
| 14:50.55 | brlcad | the more reps you add for a given set, particularly on the big muscles, the more it becomes conditioning and strength training |
| 14:51.58 | Haleiwa | what if I lift the weight halfway but cannot complete? What should I do? |
| 14:52.06 | Haleiwa | Terminate the series? |
| 14:52.56 | brlcad | if done incorrectly, yes, you can tear tendons and cause all sorts of bad stuff to happen -- thats why the workouts are supposed to take a long while, to do them controlled, to rest extensively between sets, to have a spotter for failure and to watch you're doing proper form, etc |
| 14:53.30 | Haleiwa | 6-8 reps is that OK for bulking? |
| 14:53.35 | brlcad | heh, yes definitely -- if you absolutely cannot complete with proper form, you've presumably reached failure |
| 14:53.57 | Haleiwa | I can complete if I twist my body or use other muscles but I don't do it |
| 14:54.02 | Haleiwa | That's incorrect form right? |
| 14:54.14 | brlcad | you ideally reach failure on each muscle at least once during the workout, and then move to a light cooldown on that muscle |
| 14:54.24 | brlcad | very incorrect |
| 14:54.25 | Haleiwa | or if I can complete but instead of 3 seconds it takes half a minute? |
| 14:54.34 | brlcad | that's a good way to give yourself a hernia or rip something |
| 14:54.45 | Haleiwa | and I also try to keep the speed constant that's right too? |
| 14:55.05 | brlcad | relatively slow, but more importantly very controlled |
| 14:55.18 | Haleiwa | but if it's too slow then it's aerobic isn't it? |
| 14:55.35 | Haleiwa | controlled means smooth? |
| 14:55.54 | brlcad | 6-8 reps is fine for most muscles -- smaller muscles can take more, and you can play with that number some as you get familiar with how yours respond |
| 14:56.03 | brlcad | smooth, proper form, full range of motion |
| 14:56.30 | Haleiwa | and if I cannot complete the whole range say only 90% then declare failure, right? |
| 14:56.35 | brlcad | if you're pressing 300 lbs, there's nothing aerobic about it |
| 14:56.39 | brlcad | no matter how slow you go |
| 14:56.54 | Haleiwa | just the static tension consumes enough leakage power? |
| 14:58.21 | brlcad | ideally you don't declare failure -- your spotter does (at least if it's a big muscle group) |
| 14:58.32 | brlcad | or rather, your body very clearly will |
| 15:00.26 | brlcad | there's is a point where a given muscle will outright fail under an increasing heavy load |
| 15:00.27 | brlcad | for smaller loads, it's very different |
| 15:00.27 | brlcad | but for heavy ones, you want them to fail with a heavy weight at least once -- and then each time you work that muscle out, you push towards making that heavy weight failure happen 5-10 lbs heavier |
| 15:02.02 | Haleiwa | what we want to induce is a damage, right? |
| 15:02.09 | Haleiwa | but microscopical and not macroscopical |
| 15:03.31 | brlcad | example workout, I might be doing a pyramid set on incline, doing 10x120 warmup, then 10x180, 8x200, 6x220, 4x240, and then failing at 2x260 (with a spotter, and presuming I already knew my max was around 270) -- followed by maybe a two-set cooldown of 10x120 and 20x80 |
| 15:03.55 | brlcad | right |
| 15:04.10 | brlcad | macro bad, micro great |
| 15:04.26 | Haleiwa | so it's like bending an aluminium strip ten times back and forthn |
| 15:04.30 | brlcad | if I was doing that workout, and I failed on the second set, that'd change everything |
| 15:04.36 | Haleiwa | not like tearing it outright over |
| 15:04.54 | brlcad | not a great analogy :) |
| 15:06.12 | Haleiwa | how long do you wait between changing weights? |
| 15:07.02 | brlcad | that's a hard one, depends how it feels and how close to failure .. generally a few minutes at least |
| 15:07.20 | Haleiwa | you're right with the biceps because when I start with the biceps after some time of not using it, I feel it's powerful but next time it feels like crap |
| 15:07.30 | Haleiwa | what do you do in these minutes? |
| 15:07.59 | brlcad | not so long that the muscle has entirely cooled down (like 30 minutes later) and not immediate (like 1 minute later) |
| 15:08.22 | brlcad | otherwise, you can play with different recoveries depending on what you're trying to achieve |
| 15:08.44 | Haleiwa | what's best for the biggest muscles? |
| 15:08.57 | brlcad | biceps are a good example -- once they fail, they're pretty much useless, but they have a fast recovery |
| 15:09.15 | Haleiwa | fast recovery? |
| 15:09.18 | Haleiwa | You said it's slow, 5 days |
| 15:09.41 | brlcad | so you can just wait 2 minutes after a set, and even if you were close to failure with 8 reps, you could still get 6-8 reps on the next with increased weight |
| 15:09.56 | Haleiwa | oh that recovery |
| 15:09.57 | brlcad | i mean on the spot recovery between sets |
| 15:10.28 | brlcad | you can generally do more reps with the smaller or more toned muscles |
| 15:10.42 | brlcad | you can work out your abs just about every day, for example |
| 15:10.54 | Haleiwa | wikipedia says that that is a myth |
| 15:11.00 | brlcad | but then you generally don't "bulk" your abs |
| 15:12.38 | Haleiwa | abs are small or big muscles? |
| 15:13.00 | brlcad | with workouts, just about everything is a myth or bad advice in certain concepts or put to certain practice -- as it all depends heavily on your own body, your muscles, your frame, etc |
| 15:13.40 | brlcad | as a group they're pretty big .. but they're a collection of a lot of smaller muscle bundles |
| 15:14.02 | brlcad | i was referring more to the difference between working your biceps and your quadriceps |
| 15:14.58 | brlcad | still, 8 is a good general number if you're starting out to stick to that doesn't start to matter until/if you've plateau'd a muscle |
| 15:15.15 | brlcad | 8-12 or so |
| 15:15.45 | brlcad | reducing reps as you hit more serious weights |
| 15:16.32 | Haleiwa | I mean the biceps on the arm |
| 15:16.37 | Haleiwa | isn't there another on the leg? |
| 15:16.58 | brlcad | huh? |
| 15:17.03 | Haleiwa | then probably not :) |
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| 15:45.04 | Tanelorn | brlcad: how does it come that the recovery time (the one in order of days) depends on muscle size? |
| 16:11.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:12.03 | ``Erik | my biceps still hurt from tuesday :( |
| 16:23.13 | Tanelorn | brlcad: actually could I say that the recovery is complete when I feel the muscle is fresh and I cannot stop myself from playing with the weights? |
| 17:19.15 | brlcad | ``Erik: heh |
| 17:19.38 | brlcad | that's not a good sign if that little bit of effort makes ya sore :) |
| 18:25.45 | ``Erik | <-- puss, and did bunches of carrying and lifting before you got there |
| 18:27.35 | ``Erik | nothing else hurts *shrug* |
| 18:27.40 | ``Erik | just my biceps |
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| 23:30.34 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 01:19.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: db_get_version() was intentionally getting passed a partially initialized dbip -- require it be initialized before we pass it around anywywhere. clean up during failure cleanup on db_open() while we're at it. |
| 01:31.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add BU_DEBUG_ATTACH for the backtrace crash dump routines as a means for them to spin and wait for a debugger to attach. |
| 01:32.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: utilize BU_DEBUG_ATTACH to allow for run-time attaching a debugger to apps that will potentially crash. this sends the app looping until a signal is received, or a variable is manually set in the debugger. |
| 01:46.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (36 files): |
| 01:46.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: get rid of RCS variables from the public header files. this is done in part to |
| 01:46.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: reduce recompilation during interface changes, but also to move towards not |
| 01:46.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: relying on or publishing the information contained in the variables |
| 01:46.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: interface-wise. (they're fine for c sources and private headers) |
| 01:52.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO include/shortvect-pr.h include/shortvect.h): |
| 01:52.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: shortvect.h and shortvect-pr.h are both rather obsolete headers -- mark them as |
| 01:52.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: such with a #warning and make a note to remove them. if we're ever compiling on |
| 01:52.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: a cray again and need those features, they more appropriately belong in the |
| 01:52.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: config header. |
| 01:59.41 | MinstrelGypsy | ./bak/cvscheckout |
| 02:01.02 | MinstrelGypsy | been bust in include have you brlcad: |
| 02:01.07 | MinstrelGypsy | err busy too |
| 02:02.15 | MinstrelGypsy | urff failed to remove a lock file? |
| 02:02.41 | MinstrelGypsy | collision immenent :) |
| 02:06.16 | MinstrelGypsy | forgot the .sh anyway but it pays to checkout the channel occaisionally :) |
| 02:09.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (28 files): clean up the header protections so that they are all now more consistent with one another via use of __HEADER_H__ for the define names. |
| 02:09.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: don't declare the same thing that the public header declares for us |
| 02:11.05 | brlcad | making final preparations for 7.10.2 |
| 02:13.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: missed the endif |
| 02:17.30 | MinstrelGypsy | what's that old saying? "Love to watch my work work" :) (when it *does work) |
| 02:21.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (plot3.h raytrace.h): more consistency cleanup |
| 02:28.19 | b0ef | does brlcad do any form of uv mapping? |
| 02:46.14 | brlcad | yes, but generally only relevant when you use the various texture/projection shaders |
| 02:46.42 | brlcad | all the primitives have a routine that reports uv information for any given shotline |
| 02:50.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bigE.c: minor header cleanup |
| 02:59.51 | b0ef | brlcad: not sure I understand; I'm looking to uv map a set of meshes; can I use an image and have it tile over the mesh? |
| 03:00.15 | b0ef | like for example asphalt texture |
| 03:35.07 | MinstrelGypsy | a little "yea" is heard :) |
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| 05:16.06 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 14:27.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: move the variables off the stack, making them static globals, just to be more safe. Also, be more assertive about informing the user that a stack trace has been saved (since mged captures std output). |
| 14:29.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): delegate benchmark rules down to the bench dir so they're only in one place (and so files aren't generated in the top-level), mirroring what regress does. inform the user when benchmark completes about the clobber rule. |
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| 17:32.08 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 18:30.42 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/512083 <----- BrlCad : This is the one you fixed last night right? |
| 19:18.07 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735026.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:00.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: add sanity checks for commands that are required, add ability to quell output entirely via QUIET and verbosely with VERBOSE. |
| 20:06.28 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@84.135.66.22) | |
| 20:18.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: add support for a clobber command argument so the benchmark tool can clean up after itself no matter where it's run from |
| 20:27.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: build system no longer needs to know or care -- delegate cleanup to the benchmark tool directly |
| 20:28.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added 'clobber' cleanup command to benchmark tool |
| 20:30.55 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt247-240.northwestel.net) | |
| 20:59.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: force the tk interface off for now, there are still many issues to resolve -- particularly crashes under os x |
| 21:04.47 | MinstrelGypsy | ;) |
| 21:07.01 | MinstrelGypsy | you need to add an item on the summary to indicate same |
| 21:56.31 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/512474 <----- show stopper, latest checkout |
| 21:57.08 | MinstrelGypsy | err roots.c in librt |
| 21:57.55 | MinstrelGypsy | urfff i should support LOCAL? |
| 21:58.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: libfb interface files are conditionally empty, so add the appropriate IF_TK protection |
| 21:59.16 | MinstrelGypsy | i do :) |
| 22:02.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: bonomo's last name first, credit tim for his extensive tk interface contributions |
| 22:05.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-tk.c: credit tim, ws |
| 22:05.53 | MinstrelGypsy | why on earth does taking LOCAL out fix it |
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| 22:13.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: FAST and LOCAL are no longer really useful, adding more burden than they provide, so begin a move towards deprecation. |
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| 22:40.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: search for sed and pwd |
| 22:41.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: saying 'this' sounds quirky when running through make, use pwd instead |
| 22:50.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: investigate/fix db_walk_dispather crash in rt |
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| 23:29.09 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/512587 <--- will this actually allow system tcl/tk use? |
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| 01:15.17 | yukonbob | can I scale/translate/rotate a region or group? For example, if I've got a complex object that I want combined w/ some surface multiple times, in a pattern, what's the best way to approach this? |
| 02:24.53 | smallfoot- | dunno |
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| 03:53.15 | brlcad | yukonbob: yes, you can -- this is a "matrix edit" or an "object edit" depending whether you're doing it through the gui or the command line respectively |
| 03:53.51 | brlcad | if it's actually a regular pattern, the pattern tool should be able to actually make all of the (shallow) copies for you |
| 04:12.03 | MinstrelGypsy | cd brlcad |
| 04:17.04 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/513155 <---- just got thru checking out and ... |
| 04:17.51 | brlcad | run: echo "test" | sed |
| 04:17.54 | brlcad | what does it output? |
| 04:18.24 | MinstrelGypsy | usage screen |
| 04:18.35 | brlcad | k, thanks |
| 04:18.41 | MinstrelGypsy | welcome |
| 04:20.04 | brlcad | try: echo "test" | sed "s/test/test/" |
| 04:20.46 | MinstrelGypsy | reports test |
| 04:21.18 | MinstrelGypsy | i don't use sed much directly sorry im so slow |
| 04:21.50 | MinstrelGypsy | will --verbose on autogen help nail it down |
| 04:22.17 | MinstrelGypsy | no |
| 04:22.21 | brlcad | no, it's just an eary test to make sure all the tools the script uses are available |
| 04:22.24 | MinstrelGypsy | doesn't even get started |
| 04:22.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (autogen.sh bench/run.sh): gnu sed apparently doesn't read from stdin, so make a custom test for it. |
| 04:22.48 | brlcad | that should fix it |
| 04:22.48 | MinstrelGypsy | thankyou |
| 04:23.36 | MinstrelGypsy | we'll know in a few minutes |
| 04:25.46 | MinstrelGypsy | same thing |
| 04:28.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: use VERBOSE_ECHO instead of testing DEBUG |
| 04:29.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: oops, one char typo -- try again |
| 04:48.01 | MinstrelGypsy | sure just a sec |
| 04:50.23 | MinstrelGypsy | much better |
| 04:50.26 | MinstrelGypsy | :) |
| 04:52.01 | yukonbob | ?are there better manuals than the "VolumeII-Introduction to MGED", etc.... even wikis or other online materials... "Intro to..." is a great introduction, but something with more depth would be welcome :) |
| 04:52.20 | yukonbob | s/better manuals/more extensive/ |
| 04:52.27 | MinstrelGypsy | look in the html dir |
| 04:53.49 | MinstrelGypsy | or did you know about the pdf docs on http://brlcad.org? |
| 04:53.55 | brlcad | yukonbob: yes, there's .. Vol III .. as well as a slew of manpages, html docs, and other docs embedded in the source code too |
| 04:55.05 | yukonbob | MinstrelGypsy: I got the PDFs from the brlcad.org... I did check the html earlier and it seemed incomplete for what I was searching at the time, but I should make mental note to check the included html for each case ;) |
| 04:55.25 | MinstrelGypsy | :) |
| 04:55.37 | brlcad | in the source distribution, there's a "doc" directory that has a lot of extra stuff of varying quality |
| 04:56.32 | brlcad | it's a bit of a stomping group for any and all documentation, whether new or old/outdated, but often many of the docs there get into details more quickly |
| 04:57.53 | yukonbob | are either of you devs, or pretty familiar w/ the build process? another q: I have is why my build didn't like my already installed tcl/tk/itcl/itk etc. Is that pretty typical that brlcad wants to build it's own? Is it for particular reason, or I need to feed better hints to ./configure? |
| 04:58.05 | brlcad | that said, they're *all* works in progress, and even the rather extensive tutorial series (which took a couple years to put together) are even "incomplete" in many respects |
| 04:58.30 | brlcad | yukonbob: i'm the lead dev |
| 05:00.17 | poolio | are there other devs? |
| 05:07.20 | brlcad | poolio: yes, though they only periodically/rarely show their faces on IRC |
| 05:13.32 | MinstrelGypsy | mean i should get off the channel then :P |
| 05:13.51 | MinstrelGypsy | just kidding poolio, i'm not dev |
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| 05:56.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (benchmark.1 run.sh): |
| 05:56.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add support for automatic logging of benchmark results to a file. this is so |
| 05:56.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: users don't have to rerun and/or manually capture output if they want to review |
| 05:56.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the output in detail. also included is the date/time and uname of the system |
| 05:56.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: running the analysis. make the file path searching output verbose-only now. |
| 05:56.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: docs updated to reflect all these changes. |
| 05:57.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: benchmark tool automatically logs all output to file |
| 06:27.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (benchmark.1 run.sh): differentiate between clean and clobber, allowing clean to remove files without being prompted while clobber also deletes the (new) benchmark.log files (but still not the summary file) |
| 07:54.30 | yukonbob | :) another Q when somebody gets the time: Is there a discussion of "copies" versus "references" of/to objects available? I see reference (no pun intended) to it in VolIII... |
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| 19:58.07 | MinstrelGypsy | is bwish used for anything? |
| 19:59.03 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:59.16 | MinstrelGypsy | critical? |
| 19:59.18 | brlcad | it's used by rtwizard and a few other tools |
| 19:59.24 | MinstrelGypsy | ty |
| 20:00.04 | brlcad | i'm not sure i'd call it "critical", but it's certainly in the top 50% of tools |
| 20:00.14 | MinstrelGypsy | understood |
| 20:00.43 | MinstrelGypsy | can't forget about it then :) |
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| 21:49.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: it's an array of ints, so sizeof accordingly |
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| 17:32.09 | ``Erik | blargh. |
| 18:12.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:12.47 | ``Erik | wow, first car to wipe out in the indy 500 was the linux car... http://tux500.com/geeklog/ |
| 18:14.35 | ``Erik | http://lolcode.com/ |
| 18:25.39 | smallfoot- | what means "wipe out" ? |
| 18:26.31 | smallfoot- | oh it smash into wall |
| 18:26.36 | smallfoot- | that sucks, especially since it was the linux car :( |
| 18:26.49 | dtidrow_work | pebcak error ;-) |
| 18:32.07 | ``Erik | between... car and kid? |
| 18:32.21 | ``Erik | chair and kar? |
| 18:32.50 | ``Erik | pebswas? problem exists between steering wheel and seat? :D |
| 18:33.04 | archivist | plenty of keys on a racing car steering wheel |
| 18:33.14 | ``Erik | true, but it ain't really a board |
| 18:33.49 | ``Erik | also; my car (13 steering wheel buttons I think?) and mach5 are jealous :D |
| 18:33.55 | ``Erik | damnit |
| 18:34.41 | archivist | I wonder if he was on IRC chatting instead of concentrating on driving |
| 18:36.59 | ``Erik | 11, not 13 :D (I'm counting the horn) |
| 18:37.31 | ``Erik | I've known people to do that... I nevr have, I don't even answer the phone while driving anymore |
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| 19:49.59 | MinstrelGypsy | http://www.pastebin.ca/519893 <--- this is trying to build fbserv with tk8.5a6 same happens with 8.5a5 yours or mine still the same |
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| 19:55.35 | MinstrelGypsy | btw why can't I do a distclean in other/tk? |
| 19:55.35 | MinstrelGypsy | tcl allows it |
| 20:35.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Switch in support for new opennurb_ext bounding volumes (still in development) |
| 20:37.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add some "extensions" to opennurbs (currently residing in librt) to support pullback curves and closest point functionality |
| 20:38.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Remove the old pullback curve header |
| 20:40.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add opennurbs_ext functionality to librt |
| 20:43.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Replace primitive-only bounding volume hierarchy with opennurbs_ext surface tree. Will remove commented code later. |
| 20:44.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Initial implementation of opennurbs_ext features (closest point is not implemented yet) |
| 20:47.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: Remove the compilation of the opennurbs-proper extensions (too many dependencies to resolve for now) |
| 20:48.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (brlcad_surfacetree.h brlcad_surfacetree.cpp): Fix the storage of faces instead of just surfaces (more information) |
| 20:50.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_math.h opennurbs_math.cpp): ws change and remove inline modifier (fix linking problems :-) |
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| 00:23.24 | yukonbob | I've got a confusing (to me) situation -- I've got a tcl proc (that I "source") and what it does is cp some objects, tra(nslate) them rot(ate) and qorot(ate)... I use a while loop to iterate through them (only 9) -- the objects are selected via oed. If I do a test manually, things seem to work as I imagine they should. w/i the code though (a proc), the rot's don't take effect -- am I doing something incorrect? |
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| 07:42.53 | Waimea | brlcad: your recommendation regarding splitting the workouts and waiting until the muscles completely regenerate is incredible! |
| 07:43.04 | Waimea | brlcad: when I tried it for the first time I could see the jump in weights! |
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| 14:56.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change image format #define stuff to an enum |
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| 16:30.21 | ``Erik | "brep_kinky" hehehe |
| 18:39.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Fix bugs (no inlining for intersection method, make root bv access const) |
| 18:40.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Remove commented code |
| 18:41.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Make root node access const |
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| 20:49.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp include/opennurbs_ext.h): Add closestPointEstimate support to bounding volumes |
| 20:50.15 | smallfoot- | new AACS key 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2 |
| 21:08.51 | louipc | hm? |
| 22:41.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:41.34 | ``Erik | pheer, security through obscurity prevails again O.o |
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| 23:35.43 | Genecks | HI, I need help. |
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| 23:36.05 | brlcad | Genecks: hello |
| 23:36.10 | Genecks | HI |
| 23:36.23 | Genecks | I need to install BRLCAD to Kubuntu |
| 23:36.27 | Genecks | How do I do that? |
| 23:36.59 | brlcad | the best way is to just download the sources from cvs, compile, install |
| 23:37.12 | Genecks | I don't kmnow ohb awed;ofjbn;askbdf;jbasudf |
| 23:37.14 | brlcad | else grab a source tarball or grab the old .deb |
| 23:37.14 | Genecks | brb, sorry |
| 23:37.31 | Genecks | Hello again. |
| 23:37.37 | Genecks | I recently downloaded the .deb file |
| 23:37.38 | brlcad | toddler? :) |
| 23:37.43 | Genecks | Yes... |
| 23:37.44 | Genecks | :) |
| 23:37.55 | brlcad | hehe |
| 23:38.00 | brlcad | excellent |
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| 23:38.20 | brlcad | the .deb is old and has several "lacking" characteristics, but it might be all you want/need |
| 23:38.52 | Genecks | I think it is. |
| 23:39.03 | Genecks | I recently extracted the contents, but I didn't know what to do with the contents. |
| 23:39.15 | brlcad | it created a "usr" dir? |
| 23:39.20 | brlcad | what's in the deb? |
| 23:39.24 | Genecks | Not yet. |
| 23:39.48 | brlcad | it was provided by a user, not from us directly -- there's no debian/ubuntu/etc dev as of yet |
| 23:39.53 | brlcad | just fyi |
| 23:40.57 | brlcad | if you're willing to compile, I'd be glad to walk you through a source install step-by-step |
| 23:41.48 | brlcad | otherwise, I believe the deb will put everything into a system path with an mged.sh script that sets up the environment to run mged |
| 23:42.05 | brlcad | should install into /usr/brlcad, but I forget what the .deb does |
| 23:43.01 | yukonbob | brlcad: any reason why rot shouldn't work on an oed-selected region w/i a tcl loop, but seems to work outside (manually)? |
| 23:43.50 | smallfoot- | brlcadl, is new release ahead? |
| 23:45.00 | louipc | Genecks: I think you use dpkg to install .deb pkgs. You should ask in #ubuntu perhaps. |
| 23:49.09 | brlcad | smallfoot-: yes |
| 23:49.15 | brlcad | yukonbob: hmmmm |
| 23:49.41 | brlcad | glob_compat_mode would be the only thing that should be different between manual and in a loop |
| 23:49.50 | brlcad | yukonbob: are you invoking a script? |
| 23:50.03 | yukonbob | brlcad: I've adjusted glob_compat both ways... |
| 23:50.17 | yukonbob | brlcad: what I did is write a proc, and source it, then call it. |
| 23:50.25 | yukonbob | proc == standalone file. |
| 23:55.07 | brlcad | can you post it up somewhere so I can give it a try? |
| 23:55.45 | yukonbob | brlcad: yup -- will do. Are you online for a while? (/me is just working on some other stuff atm) |
| 23:58.07 | ``Erik | damnit, why'd jay-lo have to bring in that car, he's got me lookin' at gettin' one :/ |
| 23:58.44 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, I'm generally on-line all the time, just working on other stuff too often :) |
| 23:59.04 | yukonbob | brlcad: heh :) -- I'll hopefully just be few minutes... |
| 23:59.10 | brlcad | even when I'm not "on-line", i'm screened and logging |
| 00:06.48 | Genecks | WHen I'm not online, I'm eating babies. |
| 00:07.14 | ``Erik | comet7? |
| 00:07.37 | ``Erik | http://www.comet7.com/archive_page.php?id=685 |
| 00:07.41 | ``Erik | http://www.comet7.com/archive_page.php?id=686 |
| 00:07.48 | Genecks | Stop spamming. |
| 00:07.57 | ``Erik | I'm not, I'm posting two links |
| 00:08.12 | Genecks | Nobody needs your pornography. |
| 00:08.20 | Genecks | Don't click it, anyone. |
| 00:08.32 | ``Erik | heh, if only :D webcomics aren't quite as amusing |
| 00:10.21 | Genecks | You ever think about having sex with an underage girl? |
| 00:10.30 | ``Erik | uh, no... |
| 00:10.44 | Genecks | Why not? There are plenty in Cambodia. |
| 00:11.47 | Genecks | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4038249/ |
| 00:13.06 | Genecks | You've never thought about it, ''Erik? |
| 00:13.30 | louipc | Genecks: I think you're in the wrong channel for that kind of discussion |
| 00:14.41 | Genecks | #mp3 |
| 00:22.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: version number is in the include/conf dir version files now |
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| 00:58.52 | yukonbob | brlcad: I'm not surprised, but I may have solved own issue with orders of operations -- will still show you other code, though, to discuss why it doesn't work if that's alright... |
| 01:04.23 | ``Erik | some odd monkeys drift through O.o |
| 02:02.51 | brlcad | yukonbob: find with me either way -- oed is stateful (meaning it cares about when you do what), so I wouldn't be surprised if it was related to being in one state yet needing another or something similar (forcibly setting/changing the state in scripts is good for that, e.g. accept and reject commands) |
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| 02:31.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: kaboom! .. document all of the configure options we provide (both the --enable and --with options), including what they mean and do in detail. includes all of the various available aliases too that are available. |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: another big aliasing restructure for consistency. includes removing some of the |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: more gratuitous/verbose aliases as well as more consistently using -install for |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the three (iwidgets, tnt, models) that aren't actually 'compiled'. should match |
| 02:34.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the new INSTALL docs. |
| 02:39.12 | louipc | sweet |
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| 05:32.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (5 files): so sayeth he, it shall not come to pass -- too many integration issues for now so make/leave it as part of librt |
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| 07:54.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/Makefile.am: it's an icon, not a disk image |
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| 12:42.35 | Waimea_ | brlcad: here? |
| 13:26.48 | brlcad | Waimea_: yep |
| 13:27.13 | Waimea_ | brlcad: your recommendations for the gym are great, it seems to work! |
| 13:27.28 | Waimea_ | brlcad: suddenly the wights jumped up a step and I don't feel tired like before |
| 13:28.07 | Waimea_ | brlcad: I am thinking about dithering the trainings dynamically without actually needing to keep any paperwork or remember anything |
| 13:28.29 | Waimea_ | store the information distributed in the individual muscles and read it out by feeling :) |
| 13:33.27 | ``Erik | damn, knew I shoulda committed before leaving yesterday |
| 13:44.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h): cope with alloca issue in openNURBS |
| 13:44.40 | brlcad | Waimea_: glad to hear it |
| 13:44.40 | brlcad | there is a method to the madness ;) |
| 13:45.36 | brlcad | working out by feeling is good too, by failure is even better but you have to be careful -- as is actually testing your 1-rep max about once every other month or so (must be done carefully and usually with a spotter, regardless of the muscle) |
| 13:47.48 | Waimea_ | the last sentence is too complicated for someone who goes to a gym |
| 13:47.55 | Waimea_ | could you explain simpler? |
| 13:50.22 | ``Erik | max lift can be done in a jungle gym, too, as long as you do building with freeweights to get the proper muscle formation... |
| 13:50.58 | ``Erik | (says the guy with no muscles ;) |
| 13:53.33 | Waimea_ | what's max lift? |
| 13:53.41 | Waimea_ | Something fat people use instead of the stairs? |
| 13:54.09 | ``Erik | no, lifting as absolutely much as possible... just 1 time... |
| 13:54.23 | Waimea_ | doesn't this damage the muscle or the tendons? |
| 13:55.00 | ``Erik | that'ts why ya have to be careful... and do it infrequently... |
| 13:55.18 | Waimea_ | can a scar tissue form without pain? |
| 13:58.02 | elite01_ | of course you can get wounded without even noticing it |
| 13:59.36 | Waimea_ | is this meant seriously or ironically? |
| 14:01.24 | Waimea_ | brlcad: what do you think? |
| 14:01.29 | Waimea_ | ``Erik: or you? |
| 14:13.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: grab brlcad_config.h to make sure the right things are defined |
| 14:13.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: include ieeefp.h if available for finite() |
| 14:18.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: rework the configuration files so that they will work even if they pull read-only files from top_srcdir (e.g. during a distcheck on some platforms). shouldn't need the all-local with BUILT_SOURCES being defined. |
| 14:20.54 | brlcad | Waimea_: testing your one rep max is a common thing, particularly for "someone who goes to a gym" frequently (at least power lifters) |
| 14:21.59 | Waimea_ | brlcad: can you get scar tissue from that without actually feeling pain? |
| 14:22.12 | brlcad | basically, it's a controlled measure of what your current power level is -- starting out with rested muscles, warm them up with something really light, then put on what you can only do 2-3 reps of before failing |
| 14:23.13 | brlcad | once you do that -- add a little more weight, try another rep, repeat if you need to until you can only do just one (taking long breaks in between) |
| 14:23.24 | ``Erik | bah. meeting time. |
| 14:23.43 | brlcad | "just one" being done relatively slowly, controlled, no bouncing, no lunging, etc |
| 14:24.25 | Waimea_ | no screams during which the window panes pop out from the frames? |
| 14:25.12 | brlcad | think of it like taking your temperature with a thermometer, it's not meant to be a workout -- it's a measure of your strength (which is why you really need a spotter so that your first 2-3 rep guess really is just a 2-rep guess so that attempt #2 is 1-rep max and attempt #3 is failure |
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| 18:34.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: use SSE conditional for BREP_CPPFLAGS, so we can build brep support on non-sse archs |
| 18:41.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (badmagic.c bu_tcl.c): some sprintf->snprintf and some minor cleanup of magic numbers |
| 18:42.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (convert.c fopen_uniq.c vfont.c vls.c): some sprintf->snprintf |
| 18:52.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs.h opennurbs_system.h): |
| 18:52.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: opennurbs_system.h has compiler checks for alloca and inclusion of alloca -- |
| 18:52.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: just needs another for sun. not as robust as the lengths autoconf suggests, but |
| 18:52.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: then neither is using our brlcad_config.h in a public header. need to retest on |
| 18:52.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: sun/irix to see if the ON_COMPILER_IRIX and ON_COMPILER_SUN work (else tweak the |
| 18:52.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: defines). |
| 19:10.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: add libsocket and libnsl where required (solaris) |
| 19:13.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: do run-time substitution instead of generation time... for consistency |
| 19:13.51 | brlcad | rum-time? |
| 19:14.03 | ``Erik | heh, I wish :D |
| 19:14.10 | ``Erik | ${LIBSOCKET} instead of @LIBSOCKET@ |
| 19:14.15 | brlcad | ahh yeah |
| 19:14.19 | brlcad | few of those turds remaining |
| 19:14.32 | brlcad | not many though |
| 19:14.42 | ``Erik | I put one of those turds in, then was doing hte fix elsewhere and noticed it was an outlyer... |
| 19:14.46 | brlcad | you get chance to retest opennurbs? |
| 19:15.19 | ``Erik | um, lemme update |
| 19:15.24 | ``Erik | after this commit unlocks |
| 19:15.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: add libsocket and libnsl where required (solaris) |
| 19:17.51 | *** join/#brlcad Waimea (i=clock@217-162-207-58.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:20.01 | brlcad | woot, that's like .. dual core !!wowlol!! |
| 19:20.21 | ``Erik | hehehe, that's the irix box... the sun is way way juicier, with a pair of 450's |
| 19:20.49 | ``Erik | the quad core 2ghz opteron is still impressive O.o |
| 19:21.26 | ``Erik | src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_archive.cpp:7106: error: ` |
| 19:21.27 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:21.34 | ``Erik | you dun br0ked the sun build |
| 19:22.00 | ``Erik | (it needs alloca.h to be included... I d'no what you were changin'...) |
| 19:28.40 | ``Erik | with gcc on solaris, it needs alloca.h |
| 19:31.30 | ``Erik | and gcc on solaris doesn't -DSUNOS |
| 19:31.40 | ``Erik | -D__GNUC__=3 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=3 -D__GNUC_PATCHLEVEL__=1 -Dsparc -D__sparc__ -D__sparc -D__GCC_NEW_VARARGS__ |
| 19:32.29 | ``Erik | :/ since fbsd, linux, et al can run on sparc, I don't think any sparc name is safe to use... brlcad_config.h has enough info to get us there, though... |
| 19:33.02 | ``Erik | (I kinda think it's better to try to avoid any os or arch name and work with detected feature as much as possible... like the existance of alloca.h) |
| 19:52.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: use size_t instead of unsigned int for casting a pointer to an int (warning on 64b opteron/fbsd) |
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| 20:17.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 4 dirs): fix various compiler warnings |
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| 21:03.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add get_closest_point function declaration |
| 21:04.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: Move vector point/matrix functionality here from g_brep.cpp |
| 21:05.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Simplify call to pullback_curve during testing |
| 21:07.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Move vector point/matrix functions to vector.h. Fix some pointer/reference passing issues. |
| 21:09.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Fix parameter passing, and integrate surfacetree through pullback_curve function |
| 22:04.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: attempt yet again, don't use cp since it will complain about identical files -- use the kitten. |
| 22:05.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: need opennurbs_ext.h in the dist |
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| 22:22.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/loadfont.c: comment cleanup |
| 22:23.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/description.txt doc/mged.tr src/other/jove/jove-tutorial): minor nitpick, it was the Ballistic Reseach Lab. |
| 22:31.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: quote the expr so it doesn't error out |
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| 06:02.36 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 15:39.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: fix for solaris/gcc (SUNOS is not defined, but __sun is) |
| 15:40.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: since brlcad_config.h isn't being pulled in from an included header, include it explicitely for the HAVE_IEEEFP_H cpp symbol |
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| 16:01.59 | ``Erik | sweet, successful buidl on sol8/usparc use the gnu toolchain |
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| 16:19.57 | ``Erik | oi, mal |
| 16:26.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h: add in the #include "./tclInt.h" that was lost during upgrade (fixes the regex issues in librt/regionfix.c and conv/proe-g.c) |
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| 19:44.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: return to simplicity, doesn't matter what is in the srcdir |
| 19:44.10 | *** join/#brlcad Waimea (i=clock@217-162-228-46.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:44.35 | brlcad | ``Erik: oooh, the tclInt.h fix -- forgot about that |
| 19:46.01 | brlcad | I can see why it's "a problem" just reading the header .. but then I just must have something different since I never encounter it for some reason -- probably related to building out of dir, but who knows, doesn't matter, it's all good |
| 19:50.17 | poolio | brlcad: /msg? |
| 19:50.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:50.46 | ``Erik | I woulda guessed that you weren't building tcl, so that path was never added to your include path |
| 19:54.02 | brlcad | almost always do both --enable-all and defaults on the systems I test to make sure both work |
| 19:54.22 | brlcad | poolio: always, please never ask me ;) |
| 19:54.33 | poolio | brlcad: No, I already messaged you and you didn't respond :) |
| 20:13.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: Fix bug in IGES nurbs extraction (index calculation errors) |
| 20:15.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: Use recommended (by openNURBS) method of accessing topology using indices instead of references/pointers |
| 20:16.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Use recommended (by openNURBS) method of accessing topology using indices instead of references/pointers. Also fix nurbssurface storage into opennurbs data structures (knots handled differently) |
| 20:17.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: Remove broken index macros |
| 20:19.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add some debugging output. Getting periodic divergence in root finder (still don't know why). |
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| 04:19.18 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 04:54.25 | brlcad | how goes it up in the big bowl, cadguy |
| 04:54.45 | cadguy | weird. In the desert I have rain in my kitchen |
| 04:55.00 | brlcad | rain in the kitchen? |
| 04:55.36 | brlcad | sound system or leaky roof? :) |
| 04:55.36 | cadguy | House was just renovated. Swamp cooler is on roof above kitchen. |
| 04:55.55 | cadguy | Pipe to swamp cooler was sawn off |
| 04:55.56 | brlcad | ahh |
| 04:55.56 | cadguy | Roof leaks around pipe to swamp cooler. |
| 04:56.09 | cadguy | Property management company admitted knowing about electrical problems in house. |
| 04:56.31 | cadguy | We threatened lease termination this morning based upon clauses in the contract. |
| 04:56.45 | cadguy | They had 15 people in the house working by 3pm local time. |
| 04:57.09 | cadguy | They're strapped for cash and cannot afford to loose the lease. |
| 04:57.24 | cadguy | That was my day. How was yours? |
| 04:57.55 | brlcad | hehe |
| 04:58.06 | brlcad | way to lay on the pressure |
| 04:59.08 | brlcad | it was a mostly uneventful usual friday other than checking out pirates with kermit |
| 04:59.24 | cadguy | How was it? |
| 04:59.31 | brlcad | quite excellent a flick, didn't even realize how long it was until it was over |
| 04:59.54 | cadguy | Maybe I'll get the wf to go see it with me. |
| 04:59.57 | brlcad | i actually liked it more than the first one (haven't seen the second), contrary to the reviews |
| 05:00.13 | cadguy | wow |
| 05:00.19 | brlcad | it seems more piratey and less disney, more appealing to me |
| 05:00.36 | cadguy | Arrr, Aye matey |
| 05:00.55 | brlcad | lot more serious scenes, nice plot twists throughout |
| 05:01.57 | brlcad | plus great humor and quips from jack sparrow |
| 05:02.10 | cadguy | Thx again for helping with the packing. |
| 05:02.18 | brlcad | np |
| 05:02.24 | brlcad | all arrived right-side up? |
| 05:02.35 | brlcad | i had nothing to do with the dents and scratches |
| 05:02.43 | cadguy | Don't know yet. We've had to delay delivery until the house is fit to occupy |
| 05:03.11 | cadguy | but the broken things are all your fault? |
| 05:03.22 | brlcad | that was all bob's doing |
| 05:03.28 | brlcad | i tried to stop him |
| 05:03.32 | brlcad | but he's bigger than me |
| 05:03.41 | cadguy | I heard about it. |
| 05:03.55 | brlcad | she fit the bike in? |
| 05:04.02 | cadguy | Follow the leader, stop trying to re-evaluate everything |
| 05:04.25 | cadguy | She didn't. She's going to ship it separately later this month when she's back in town. |
| 05:04.35 | brlcad | ahh |
| 05:04.41 | cadguy | Wait. The bike, yes, the trike no. |
| 05:05.15 | cadguy | BTW, sucking wind at 4500' is tough compared to sea level. |
| 05:05.19 | brlcad | we could have strapped it in tight (the trike) to the roof, but she was uneasy about it before packing his.. quota of stuffed animals |
| 05:05.54 | cadguy | They could have padded the trike ;-) |
| 05:06.07 | cadguy | He's already got the only 3 he cares about. |
| 05:06.20 | brlcad | heh, http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/lolcode_r.jpg |
| 05:10.57 | cadguy | Interesting morf vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs |
| 05:20.39 | cadguy | g'night |
| 05:20.45 | brlcad | pretty cool vid |
| 06:25.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: some versions of expr really don't like the quotes, so check for it |
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| 21:49.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:20.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: should be fine to use bu_bomb instead of abort as bu_bomb should not attempt to acquire a semaphore (it doesn't use bu_log). |
| 01:11.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: add comment docs on bu_bomb usage and add name given extensive changes over time. |
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| 03:02.41 | MinstrelGypsy | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside albumn, 7.10.1 sorta working. |
| 04:13.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/tcl.m4: if we're on freebsd, there should be no reason why we can't just use gcc instead of ld -- this allows 'lib' flags being provided for XFT_LIBS via xft-config to actually not break the build. |
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| 04:55.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: set the ld_library_path so the binaries invoked by the test can find the tcl/tk libraries. also, write out the mged script to a file so that errors don't dump the entire script. use solids.log for the log. |
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| 05:13.39 | jack- | guys, question..is adrt more mature meanwhile? like..should i include it in a brlcad package? |
| 05:13.58 | jack- | (too lazy to study changelogs, sorry!) |
| 05:14.29 | jack- | it's wicked on macs, anyway |
| 05:14.40 | jack- | since SDL is aqua (apple windowmanager) stuff |
| 05:14.47 | jack- | and the rest is x11 stuff |
| 05:15.17 | jack- | so its not too easy to get a smooth env while working, kind of |
| 05:25.49 | brlcad | jack-: probably not |
| 05:26.02 | jack- | better leave adrt out again? |
| 05:26.07 | brlcad | yes |
| 05:26.13 | jack- | ok, thx :) |
| 05:26.22 | brlcad | it's not been fleshed out build-wise with any sort of polish |
| 05:26.41 | jack- | thats np, i mean i could dig minor build issues myself |
| 05:26.51 | jack- | but for end users, as a frontend? |
| 05:27.01 | brlcad | it'll build on os x, but it requires a fair bit of manual work |
| 05:27.19 | jack- | i know the sdl tricks pretty well i guess :) |
| 05:27.19 | brlcad | and even once you have it up, there is practically no documentation |
| 05:27.26 | brlcad | it's not meant for end-user use just yet |
| 05:27.26 | jack- | ok |
| 05:27.33 | jack- | alright, no adrt then |
| 05:29.33 | jack- | brlcad: no clue if you're the one who tried to build/use it on mac os x |
| 05:29.47 | jack- | but if you want a much easier life for such things, just get fink |
| 05:29.58 | jack- | saved me so much time+headaches already :) |
| 05:33.14 | jack- | brlcad will appear in fink soonish, i'm just finishing my package |
| 05:33.54 | jack- | (http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jackfink = me) |
| 05:36.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: mged_solids.log is no longer generated |
| 05:38.24 | brlcad | er, i've never "tried" .. i build it when i want to use it by hand ;) |
| 05:38.41 | jack- | :) |
| 05:38.57 | brlcad | glad to hear someone's picking up the fink package for it |
| 05:39.00 | jack- | building anything you know on a new system could always be seen as a try |
| 05:39.10 | jack- | nothing wrong with that :) |
| 05:39.25 | brlcad | i would, but me and the fink devs differ on many issues that I just try to avoid the conflict |
| 05:39.34 | jack- | oh |
| 05:39.38 | jack- | like what? |
| 05:40.14 | jack- | in my eyes, the dp/mp folks are way more of elitist whackos you can have troubles communicating with |
| 05:40.20 | jack- | hence fink |
| 05:40.50 | brlcad | nothing important |
| 05:42.05 | jack- | i like discovering and packaging great things like brlcad |
| 05:42.31 | jack- | sphinx is kind of similar, an awesome opensourced speech recognizing system done by edu folks |
| 05:43.22 | jack- | only stuff holding that one back was some odd g95 thing, it just wont build if you have fortran installed |
| 05:43.53 | jack- | unfortunately a system component, outside of fink ;) i should hack the autoconf files a bit |
| 05:44.05 | brlcad | yeah, sounds like something in a configure.ac |
| 05:44.14 | jack- | yup |
| 05:45.12 | jack- | sdl is fairly neat once you get used to shit on *.framework and use only the fink stuff |
| 05:45.29 | jack- | some things like sdl, mysql and so on are available from many sources for macs |
| 05:45.36 | jack- | wicked..but you can handle that |
| 05:53.36 | brlcad | sdl from the sdl folks works well enough too -- but requires a fair bit of build-system mods to support them regardless (at least portably) |
| 05:57.38 | jack- | yup |
| 05:57.58 | jack- | or a fair bit of packager brainwork to adapt stuff |
| 05:58.27 | jack- | i dont like all the purely mac-ish things like frameworks, the unix way is so much easier |
| 05:58.39 | jack- | and not any less reliable if you know what you're doing |
| 06:03.05 | jack- | easier = more portable..thanks to fink i only have to make sure stuff uses the right include- and libdirs |
| 06:03.40 | jack- | and autoconf/make-upstream is influenced enough to make sure it works |
| 06:03.54 | jack- | so fink is really comfortable, kind of |
| 06:04.08 | brlcad | is that a soapbox you're standing on? :) |
| 06:04.18 | brlcad | to each their own ;) |
| 06:04.27 | jack- | yeah |
| 06:04.57 | jack- | stuff is getting harder now with intel vs ppc anyway |
| 06:05.15 | jack- | cant build fat binaries and libs with fink yet :) but its ok |
| 06:07.32 | brlcad | did they finally add smp build support? |
| 06:08.23 | jack- | not directly through fink, but some even some core guys do it |
| 06:08.40 | jack- | np to get -j4 into your makeflags if you know what you're doing |
| 06:09.02 | brlcad | i know it's doable, I made the mods for years |
| 06:09.12 | jack- | some stuff wont work, but most stuff will |
| 06:09.28 | jack- | its just not ripe enough to include it in fink for "users" |
| 06:09.51 | jack- | (people who want to build things without being able to do the same stuff "manually" from upstream tarballs or so) |
| 06:33.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (7 files): set the ld_library_path so the binaries invoked by the test can find the tcl/tk libraries. |
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| 12:36.30 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (i=thing0@124-168-78-7.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 12:36.38 | thing0 | hey guys |
| 12:36.42 | thing0 | long time no see |
| 12:36.51 | thing0 | haven't been here in years :) |
| 13:35.38 | *** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@krum.ethz.ch) | |
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| 14:16.44 | bjorkBSD | has it changed much, thing0? |
| 14:17.02 | tarzeau | is it possible make clean target is not very good? |
| 14:17.07 | tarzeau | like it removes stuff that's needed? |
| 14:21.21 | thing0 | umm |
| 14:21.26 | thing0 | yeah |
| 14:21.30 | thing0 | there is more people ;) |
| 14:21.34 | thing0 | i've changed too |
| 14:21.35 | thing0 | hehe |
| 14:26.38 | thing0 | so how is BRLCAD actually going? |
| 14:33.41 | ``Erik | a little to the left |
| 14:48.51 | thing0 | lol |
| 15:19.34 | tarzeau | itclStubLib.lo: In function `Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 15:19.35 | tarzeau | /var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 15:19.40 | tarzeau | when i try to build it (on debian gnu/linux) |
| 15:19.57 | brlcad | hello thing0 |
| 15:20.32 | thing0 | hi brlcad |
| 15:20.36 | thing0 | long time no see |
| 15:20.43 | brlcad | tarzeau: can you try to build latest CVS instead of .0 |
| 15:20.49 | thing0 | i've been cadding it up lately |
| 15:20.50 | thing0 | :P |
| 15:20.56 | tarzeau | brlcad: sure. let me get that |
| 15:21.00 | brlcad | the build system has been in rapid flux wrt tcl/tk/itcl/itk |
| 15:21.00 | thing0 | actually got a job as a CAD teacher |
| 15:21.01 | thing0 | hehe |
| 15:21.10 | brlcad | thing0: nifty |
| 15:21.22 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:21.24 | thing0 | but I quite |
| 15:21.26 | thing0 | quite |
| 15:21.28 | tarzeau | any of you use blender, wings3d, misfit model 3d and/or www.sauerbraten.org ? |
| 15:21.30 | thing0 | last try |
| 15:21.31 | thing0 | quit |
| 15:21.32 | thing0 | hehe |
| 15:21.47 | brlcad | tarzeau: i've used at least two of those |
| 15:21.49 | thing0 | tarzeau: I have used blender |
| 15:22.02 | brlcad | the first two for me |
| 15:22.14 | brlcad | none of those being a solid modeler or cad modeler too ;) |
| 15:22.32 | tarzeau | yeah i know it's different stuff :) |
| 15:22.39 | tarzeau | that's why i try to package brlcad (again) for debian |
| 15:22.48 | tarzeau | that ronja friend's using brlcad |
| 15:22.59 | tarzeau | http://ronja.twibright.com/ |
| 15:24.01 | brlcad | he pops in from time to time |
| 15:24.51 | tarzeau | clock-? |
| 15:26.34 | brlcad | yeah |
| 15:27.19 | brlcad | unless that's you and I'm getting nicks confused |
| 15:28.08 | tarzeau | no no that's not me |
| 15:28.18 | tarzeau | you're absolutely right |
| 15:28.31 | tarzeau | but i was here too, i think a year or more ago |
| 15:28.54 | tarzeau | trying to build the cvs version now |
| 15:29.36 | thing0 | how many devs are working on BRLCAD? |
| 15:31.10 | brlcad | thing0: oh it varies in any given week -- but about 4 or 5 regularly active throughout this past year |
| 15:32.05 | brlcad | the magnitude of activity also fluctuates heavily, as does peripheral support for solving things like mathematics and algorithms issues |
| 15:32.43 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 15:33.10 | brlcad | one guy working on FEA integration, another on build system and image management refactoring, another implementing the brep support, etc |
| 15:37.28 | thing0 | ahh ic |
| 15:37.37 | thing0 | is there a mechanical simulation? |
| 15:37.48 | thing0 | as in gravity, force analysis etc. |
| 15:38.40 | brlcad | no no |
| 15:39.08 | brlcad | that's quite outside our scope at least at the moment -- that's partly why, though, there are hooks to FEA being put in place |
| 15:40.32 | thing0 | hmm |
| 15:41.05 | thing0 | should join up with that free physic engine group |
| 15:41.52 | brlcad | you need a simulation environment for a physic engine to make sense ;) |
| 15:42.21 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:42.24 | thing0 | exactly |
| 15:43.08 | thing0 | hmm |
| 15:43.33 | thing0 | is BRLCAD actually parametric? |
| 15:43.38 | thing0 | I cannot remember |
| 15:43.45 | thing0 | I am on a backup dialup account atm |
| 15:43.51 | thing0 | so the PDF is really slow to load |
| 15:44.00 | brlcad | no, it's not parametric |
| 15:44.09 | brlcad | though we're moving towards adding that style geometric support |
| 15:44.35 | brlcad | brl-cad supports multiple representation formats, but _prefers_ implicit CSG constructions |
| 15:45.42 | brlcad | that said, we're in the process of implementing brep support beyond the existing support for meshes so that you can define parametric surfaces |
| 15:46.16 | brlcad | that's massive effort, though, and going to require a bit shift in the editing side as well as the foundation geometric engine aspects |
| 15:47.17 | brlcad | jason has almost got the base brep support implemented in terms of ray-tracing, quite awesome progress actually |
| 15:47.50 | brlcad | from there we'll need to implement brep tessellation, brep on brep evaluation, and csg to brep translation |
| 15:47.52 | tarzeau | still /var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 15:47.57 | thing0 | ll |
| 15:47.59 | thing0 | well |
| 15:48.06 | thing0 | if I can request a feature |
| 15:48.19 | thing0 | please make the solids themselves parametric |
| 15:48.24 | thing0 | as in |
| 15:48.30 | thing0 | the primative shape |
| 15:48.31 | thing0 | s |
| 15:48.37 | thing0 | can be deformed |
| 15:48.44 | brlcad | tarzeau: can you pastebin the configure summary? |
| 15:48.45 | thing0 | no need to make base sketches and then extrude |
| 15:48.56 | brlcad | it's in your config.log near the bottom if you don't have it in a buffer |
| 15:49.02 | *** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=smallfoo@clamwin/translator/smallfoot) | |
| 15:49.03 | thing0 | this annoys me greatly in the current group of parametric CADs |
| 15:49.07 | tarzeau | brlcad: sure: http://gnu.ethz.ch/debian/brl-cad/brlcad_0+20070603-1_i386.build |
| 15:49.13 | brlcad | thing0: that's all planned |
| 15:49.16 | tarzeau | 500kb, very bottom |
| 15:49.37 | thing0 | thank you brlcad |
| 15:49.49 | brlcad | if you create a sphere, it'll make just an implicit sphere -- but still let you grab a point on that sphere and pull/poke it (at which point it's automatically turned into a brep spline surface) |
| 15:49.50 | thing0 | I have yet to look at onespaces offering |
| 15:49.59 | thing0 | ahh nice |
| 15:50.07 | thing0 | what I would like is that |
| 15:50.29 | thing0 | if for example I made the mid of a sphere join to the face of a cube |
| 15:50.48 | thing0 | I could define the length of the sphere - cube with a parameter |
| 15:51.02 | thing0 | that is mapped to the quadrant of the sphere |
| 15:51.08 | thing0 | and the end of the cube |
| 15:51.49 | brlcad | sounds like parametric constraints |
| 15:51.57 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:52.03 | thing0 | but in a different way |
| 15:52.25 | thing0 | most CADs would have this as a reference |
| 15:52.33 | thing0 | I want this as a driving constraint |
| 15:52.45 | thing0 | sure I could make this shape with a base sketch |
| 15:52.51 | thing0 | but that's what I don't want |
| 15:53.06 | thing0 | cause if someone picks a different spot to make a base sketch |
| 15:53.12 | thing0 | then the way your thinking |
| 15:53.18 | thing0 | it becomes ANNOYING |
| 15:54.31 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:55.00 | thing0 | we work in 3d but still use 2d methods to make our 3d objects |
| 15:59.02 | brlcad | we, who's we? :) |
| 16:00.12 | brlcad | brl-cad never has supported 2d methods very well, or at all for the longest time -- it was a long time before sketches were added and they're still a bastard cousin implementation that are discouraged |
| 16:00.47 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:00.50 | thing0 | sorry brlcad |
| 16:01.02 | thing0 | just thinking of commerical parametric CAD |
| 16:01.12 | thing0 | had the sales doctorine |
| 16:01.17 | thing0 | its in my blood now |
| 16:01.18 | thing0 | :P |
| 16:01.42 | brlcad | autocad is another story ;) |
| 16:02.47 | thing0 | ahh yes |
| 16:02.50 | thing0 | autocad |
| 16:03.06 | thing0 | now with solids that have histoy |
| 16:03.10 | thing0 | *history |
| 16:10.54 | thing0 | I was teaching Autodesk Inventor |
| 16:11.01 | thing0 | but yeah |
| 16:11.17 | thing0 | with AutoCAD coming out with that 3d stuff in 2007 it was a bit weird |
| 16:12.01 | brlcad | autocad will probably forever be seen as the "2d approach" no matter how much 3d they stuff in |
| 16:12.30 | brlcad | for 3d, you grab unigraphics, pro/e, solidworks, or catia |
| 16:13.06 | brlcad | at some point down the road, BRL-CAD will be in that list as well moreso than it is today |
| 16:14.02 | thing0 | that would be good to see |
| 16:17.13 | thing0 | how long do you think it will take> |
| 16:17.13 | thing0 | ? |
| 16:17.13 | brlcad | we have most of the geometry engine aspects, particularly now with brep support being integrated |
| 16:17.13 | thing0 | like |
| 16:17.13 | thing0 | there is a bunch of free guys atm |
| 16:17.13 | brlcad | having a new enticing gui will be where the win can be made |
| 16:17.21 | thing0 | ic |
| 16:17.30 | brlcad | most users only care about the gui, not raw capabilities |
| 16:17.37 | brlcad | brl-cad has extensive raw capability |
| 16:17.40 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:17.43 | brlcad | but a difficult gui |
| 16:17.45 | thing0 | yeah |
| 16:18.00 | thing0 | just needs to be stupid simple |
| 16:18.06 | thing0 | for the masses :P |
| 16:18.13 | brlcad | which is contrary to cad design in general |
| 16:18.28 | brlcad | cad is a complex domain, lots of different wants and expectations |
| 16:19.07 | brlcad | there's a reason there's nothing open source even remotely close to a commercial package like pro/e |
| 16:19.09 | thing0 | yeah I know |
| 16:19.40 | brlcad | aside from the 100+ cummulative staff years that they invest every single year.. |
| 16:20.10 | thing0 | yeah |
| 16:20.22 | brlcad | because it's a multi-billion dollar industry, everyone does their work in private and throws major commercial money at problems |
| 16:20.22 | thing0 | but once the product gets more brand regonition |
| 16:20.30 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:20.45 | brlcad | it's hard enough to find open source talent that are interested/willing to make things better |
| 16:20.53 | brlcad | even for something completely open like brl-cad |
| 16:21.22 | thing0 | yeah I bet |
| 16:21.24 | thing0 | I am still thinking of what todo with my free time |
| 16:21.27 | thing0 | not sure what yet |
| 16:21.43 | brlcad | there are reasons for that too, even not counting the mathematics, algorithms, and programming expertise generally needed |
| 16:22.17 | brlcad | it's just a big task, hard to get momentum going on something that big |
| 16:22.53 | thing0 | yep |
| 16:23.24 | thing0 | are you the project manager brlcad? |
| 16:23.40 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:23.56 | thing0 | ic |
| 16:24.15 | thing0 | well |
| 16:24.26 | brlcad | one thing that will hopefully spark activity that I'm looking to get in place this year is setting up an on-going GSoC-style program |
| 16:24.48 | thing0 | Gsoc? |
| 16:25.01 | brlcad | ~gsoc |
| 16:25.03 | ibot | gsoc is, like, the Google Summer of Code, a program run annually by Google to provide (paid for) jobs to students to code on open source projects over summer. See http://code.google.com/soc/ for details. |
| 16:25.16 | thing0 | yeah |
| 16:25.28 | thing0 | i didn't know they had an acroynm for it |
| 16:25.40 | thing0 | I forgot to apply last year |
| 16:25.45 | thing0 | missed the date |
| 16:25.50 | thing0 | I was PISSED ;) |
| 16:25.54 | brlcad | :) |
| 16:26.17 | brlcad | i missed the (mentorship) submission deadline both the first two years by mere days |
| 16:26.19 | thing0 | one of the things I am looking at is trying to get some PM skills |
| 16:26.28 | thing0 | I am a project engineer at the moment |
| 16:26.30 | brlcad | made it this year, got bzflag accepted |
| 16:26.36 | thing0 | but I want to be a PM eventually |
| 16:26.56 | thing0 | was trying to find something that I am interested in to try to develop PM skills |
| 16:26.57 | brlcad | titles are a bit superfluous ;) |
| 16:27.06 | thing0 | so that I can become a better PM |
| 16:27.10 | thing0 | yeah I know |
| 16:27.26 | thing0 | but, its the capabilities which is what I want |
| 16:27.58 | thing0 | i have spent many a night doing work |
| 16:28.10 | thing0 | but if I could harness other people |
| 16:28.13 | thing0 | could get more done |
| 16:28.22 | thing0 | still refining the skill of delegation |
| 16:28.35 | thing0 | need to be able to create understandable tasks |
| 16:28.36 | brlcad | my roles fluctuate between pm, architect, developer, code reviewer, tester, interface designer, graphics artist, etc .. even though each is really a "role" in itself |
| 16:28.38 | thing0 | :P\ |
| 16:28.46 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:28.55 | thing0 | brlcad is the one man army |
| 16:28.56 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:29.27 | brlcad | yeah, harnessing others and attracting development interest is one of the hardest parts |
| 16:29.31 | brlcad | you need a foundation for that |
| 16:29.33 | brlcad | both in the project |
| 16:29.40 | brlcad | and in your personality/goals/direction |
| 16:30.08 | thing0 | yep |
| 16:30.43 | thing0 | have you got milestones set for this year? |
| 16:31.38 | brlcad | for what it's worth, it's my belief that you have to not only be willing to do the work yourself that you ask of others, but that you also have the experience of having done the work you ask of them sometime before (i.e. base technical experience) |
| 16:31.56 | thing0 | exactly |
| 16:31.58 | brlcad | yeah, there are milestones as well as a rolling log |
| 16:32.14 | thing0 | because if u haven't done it yourself |
| 16:32.15 | brlcad | the brep steps I already mentioned |
| 16:32.21 | thing0 | how do you know if they did it right? |
| 16:32.35 | brlcad | there are other items documented in the TODO transcript, at least at a low-level |
| 16:32.48 | thing0 | i see |
| 16:33.00 | thing0 | is there a mailing list? |
| 16:33.07 | brlcad | not so much that they've done it right/wrong -- there are varying degrees of both in any implementation |
| 16:33.13 | brlcad | there are four mailing lists |
| 16:33.18 | brlcad | for different purposes |
| 16:33.41 | brlcad | http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292users |
| 16:33.46 | brlcad | oops, http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292 |
| 16:33.56 | brlcad | er, and that's five |
| 16:34.00 | thing0 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:35.14 | brlcad | whether they took the path you wanted or not isn't really the issue, it's empowering them in directions that you know are good to be going in and knowing what those directions are or need to be |
| 16:35.42 | thing0 | hmm |
| 16:37.13 | brlcad | regardless of the "process" for getting them there or any given implementation approach sometimes |
| 16:39.30 | thing0 | well brlcad you have given me some stuff to think about |
| 16:39.58 | brlcad | thing0: for what it's worth, the task of a cad package is big enough to have entirely independent projects going -- if you wanted to exercise your project engineering or project management skills, theres undoubtely an area you could work on |
| 16:41.10 | brlcad | it's generally set up as a meritocracy which basically means participation and involvement (at any level, whether coding or administrative or otherwise) are what dictate direction, voice, and decisions |
| 16:41.39 | thing0 | hmm |
| 16:42.21 | thing0 | I just don't want to commit to something unless I am going to stick with it |
| 16:42.32 | thing0 | I hate doing that ;) |
| 16:46.41 | brlcad | just saying the participation door is wide open :) |
| 16:47.35 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:47.40 | thing0 | thanks |
| 16:47.44 | thing0 | :) |
| 16:50.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: use a shaders.mged transcript so that error reports are more concise |
| 16:54.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: clean up after solids and shaders |
| 16:55.50 | thing0 | brlcad I take that you are Christopher Morrison |
| 16:59.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: remove solids.mged |
| 16:59.48 | thing0 | in regards to Gsoc would google be willing with them having sketchup |
| 16:59.50 | thing0 | ? |
| 17:02.24 | brlcad | thing0: brl-cad may or may not make gsoc itself, but we can certainly host our own program in a similar style |
| 17:03.06 | thing0 | ahh ic |
| 17:03.09 | brlcad | gsoc also has several limitations of its own that we wouldn't have to impose like only summer and only code |
| 17:03.22 | thing0 | lol |
| 17:03.50 | brlcad | we could do a brl-cad winter of code for example, or even year-round running once a quarter or something similar |
| 17:04.04 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:04.22 | brlcad | there are interested groups that are willing/interested in sponsoring such a setup for brl-cad |
| 17:04.31 | brlcad | and yes, i'm morrison |
| 17:04.37 | thing0 | ic |
| 17:04.49 | thing0 | this could be interesting |
| 17:05.12 | brlcad | could be very interesting |
| 17:05.24 | thing0 | hehe |
| 17:06.52 | brlcad | for a mere staff year's funding, we could fund about 20 students for a gsoc-level timeframe (about three months) -- that's way more than we could handle right now managerially and with appropriate code review and mentoring |
| 17:07.49 | thing0 | wow |
| 17:07.50 | brlcad | even having just a handful students would accellerate interest and activity exceptionally |
| 17:08.02 | thing0 | yeah I can see that |
| 17:08.14 | thing0 | I think we could do recruitment drives |
| 17:08.30 | thing0 | to multidisplinary engineers |
| 17:08.34 | brlcad | yep, or even just "task drives" to get things done |
| 17:08.35 | thing0 | not just software |
| 17:08.41 | brlcad | ala month of bugs style stuff |
| 17:09.06 | thing0 | I am thinking Mechatronic (not just because I am one....) but because of the mechanical/software interest |
| 17:09.24 | thing0 | or mech eng who are doing com sci |
| 17:09.48 | thing0 | it is interesting that you have funding |
| 17:09.58 | thing0 | the first problem is usually funding |
| 17:10.21 | thing0 | but now that, that is sorted the next is people |
| 17:11.01 | brlcad | yeah, getting the mech-e, drafters, finite element analysts, solid modelers, elec-e, and others all working together on tool(s) that we all want and need |
| 17:11.49 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:11.50 | thing0 | oh |
| 17:12.02 | thing0 | not trying to distract from the current goal |
| 17:12.09 | thing0 | but to through it into the mix |
| 17:12.17 | brlcad | many of the goals coincide though |
| 17:12.22 | thing0 | functional based modelling |
| 17:12.23 | brlcad | it's just a massive domain |
| 17:12.55 | brlcad | akin to the diagram I put together .. it's generally all "CAD", but the disciplines are vast with major overlap in some areas |
| 17:13.13 | thing0 | using languages like modelica to describe the geometry |
| 17:13.20 | brlcad | though many of the disciplines have different needs and expectations |
| 17:13.20 | thing0 | in a procedural like language |
| 17:14.24 | thing0 | yeah I remember reading that paper by that guy from lockhead |
| 17:14.58 | thing0 | let me find the reference |
| 17:16.40 | thing0 | http://www.voughtaircraft.com/ntcoe/presentations.htm |
| 17:18.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am gqa.sh spdi.sh weight.sh): move more of the mged scripts to their own files so that segfault failures on linux are more brief. |
| 17:19.22 | brlcad | heh, the lockhead guy is apparently a lisp/scheme fan :) |
| 17:19.29 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:19.44 | thing0 | brlcad: have you ever seen used modelica? |
| 17:19.51 | brlcad | ah, haskell more specifically |
| 17:19.54 | thing0 | *seen/used |
| 17:20.23 | brlcad | his case points are a huge reason why brl-cad was open sourced in the first place |
| 17:21.04 | thing0 | exactly |
| 17:21.15 | thing0 | I HATE properitary formats |
| 17:21.20 | thing0 | they are so painful |
| 17:21.45 | brlcad | control, long-term accessibility, implementation openness, cross-platform identical behavior, NOT a proprietary binary format, uninhibited license, etc |
| 17:22.28 | thing0 | yep |
| 17:22.44 | brlcad | "that's why we're here" :) |
| 17:23.41 | thing0 | hehe |
| 17:23.42 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:23.52 | brlcad | those ideas for a functional language ascii file format are interesting -- there are certainly some tradeoffs but the base idea is good |
| 17:24.21 | thing0 | PTC engineering for there software has had huge chunks out sourced to India |
| 17:24.31 | thing0 | this may seem unrelated |
| 17:24.33 | thing0 | but I was thinking |
| 17:24.34 | brlcad | it's actually not far from brl-cad existing ascii file format, though we're intently procedural via the tcl subset -- you're not going to get functional without a functional language :) |
| 17:24.47 | thing0 | it is because of the prohibitably costs |
| 17:24.55 | thing0 | that CAD vendors are charging |
| 17:25.12 | brlcad | they charge that much because they can :) |
| 17:25.18 | thing0 | exactly |
| 17:25.30 | thing0 | but PTC has had a lot of competition lately |
| 17:25.35 | thing0 | so to cut costs |
| 17:25.40 | brlcad | brl-cad's the next closest competitor and our gui is painful enough that they're not worried about us taking any business anytime soon |
| 17:25.44 | thing0 | design goes to India |
| 17:26.03 | brlcad | next closest open source competitor that is |
| 17:26.16 | thing0 | ?? |
| 17:26.30 | thing0 | who is the next closest open source competitor? |
| 17:27.13 | brlcad | brl-cad is really the only open source package that is anywhere close to being a competitor to the commercial packages |
| 17:27.18 | brlcad | and we're still pretty far |
| 17:27.33 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 17:28.12 | brlcad | i mean there are several projects that have a gui or mesh editing or maybe parametrics or some other subset, but all of that really just barely scratches the surface of everything you need to be a real competitor |
| 17:28.33 | brlcad | the landscape of what everyone wants really is massive, and takes a lot of effort |
| 17:28.47 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:28.54 | brlcad | brl-cad's only as far along as it is because it's been under constant development for over two decades now |
| 17:29.31 | brlcad | we certainly have the capability to compete -- like I said, we have most of the foundation -- we mostly lack in gui |
| 17:30.22 | thing0 | hmm |
| 17:30.29 | thing0 | it's sorta funny |
| 17:30.32 | brlcad | last estimate I saw puts brl-cad at roughly 500 man-years invested |
| 17:30.44 | thing0 | nice |
| 17:30.50 | brlcad | you wouldn't think it looking at mged :) |
| 17:31.15 | thing0 | hehe |
| 17:31.15 | brlcad | until you knew it inside and out |
| 17:31.20 | thing0 | the GUI was the thing that annoyed me the most in current CAD systems |
| 17:31.31 | thing0 | I wanted more of a consitent UI |
| 17:31.37 | thing0 | no dialog boxes |
| 17:31.46 | thing0 | more sorta consoleish |
| 17:31.49 | thing0 | in the sense that |
| 17:32.23 | thing0 | that there should be an area where the current tool should appear |
| 17:32.27 | brlcad | then there's the problem of what is consistent to one engineer can be outright "repellant" to another ;) |
| 17:32.30 | thing0 | it should always be the same |
| 17:32.39 | brlcad | "current tool should appear"? |
| 17:32.46 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:32.51 | thing0 | let me explain |
| 17:32.57 | thing0 | when I want todo an extrusion |
| 17:33.02 | thing0 | a dialog popups up |
| 17:33.10 | thing0 | where I have to fill in values |
| 17:33.19 | brlcad | mkey |
| 17:33.25 | thing0 | there should be a part of the screen that is dedicated to it |
| 17:33.35 | thing0 | solidworks sorta have the idea |
| 17:33.50 | thing0 | but it is not that well implemented in my opinion |
| 17:33.52 | brlcad | ah, you mean non-overlapping? |
| 17:33.56 | thing0 | still very clunkey |
| 17:34.05 | thing0 | yes, non overlapping |
| 17:34.16 | brlcad | yes, that's something I've had a strong pet peave about |
| 17:34.23 | brlcad | modalities and dialogs in general |
| 17:34.29 | thing0 | yes |
| 17:34.32 | thing0 | I want a system |
| 17:34.41 | thing0 | whereby the whole screen is the modal space |
| 17:34.58 | thing0 | move the cursor over the edge of the screen and the bar fades in |
| 17:35.08 | thing0 | just like in some IDEs |
| 17:35.20 | thing0 | MSVC 2003 and up |
| 17:35.27 | thing0 | it just makes more sense |
| 17:35.35 | brlcad | jason (the guy working on brep) has an impressive design that is entirely non-modal, non-overlapping -- very impressive, very new .. there's not much out there like it interface-wise |
| 17:35.41 | thing0 | why waste screen real estate on tool bars? |
| 17:35.55 | thing0 | woah |
| 17:35.58 | thing0 | sounds cool |
| 17:36.05 | thing0 | sounds really cool |
| 17:36.58 | brlcad | even has a functioning prototype demo, although the demo is mac-only (as it was just a mockup) |
| 17:37.17 | thing0 | ic |
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| 17:39.46 | brlcad | the concept, however, is pretty sound |
| 17:40.04 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:40.09 | brlcad | considering using at least a lot of his ideas for the new editor interface |
| 17:40.10 | thing0 | I am just thinking |
| 17:40.30 | thing0 | have you thought about what the toolkit will be for UI? |
| 17:41.18 | brlcad | here's some of his thoughts on the matter, though he's writing from the grander aspect of an operating system: http://www.imaginaryday.com/wiki/ |
| 17:41.38 | brlcad | the ideas hold for any "big system" though that has to manage a slew of data types and interactions |
| 17:41.47 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:41.52 | brlcad | i have though a LOT about the toolkit for the UI |
| 17:41.57 | thing0 | have you seen the interface of UGS NX5? |
| 17:42.33 | brlcad | the problem is that there's not much that I'm happy with so I'd not settled on anything at the moment -- only the high-level requirements from an architecture and integration perspective |
| 17:42.45 | brlcad | yes, I have |
| 17:43.15 | brlcad | i've got screenshots of just about all of the major cad systems to compare and contrast ideas and high-level layout |
| 17:43.23 | thing0 | that is one thing that I always remember about UGS |
| 17:43.39 | thing0 | they claim todo actual studies of users interaction with the software |
| 17:43.41 | brlcad | adobe has been leading the way, though, in terms of gui and integration |
| 17:43.51 | thing0 | to try and make it better with every release |
| 17:44.01 | thing0 | oh really, adobe |
| 17:44.02 | thing0 | hmm |
| 17:44.04 | thing0 | cool |
| 17:45.24 | brlcad | yeah, I worked with UGS pre-NX directly for several weeks analyzing their gui and interaction methods -- even back then it wasn't too bad, better than most really -- but it was still a complex system that took extensive effort and training to get started |
| 17:46.19 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:46.38 | thing0 | but it seems that all parametric cads are the same |
| 17:46.54 | thing0 | I don't seem to have any trouble moving around |
| 17:47.24 | thing0 | I went from Inventor to Solidworks to Inventor to UGS to CATIA to Inventor |
| 17:47.34 | thing0 | i mean |
| 17:47.42 | thing0 | it's all the same philosphy |
| 17:47.49 | brlcad | yeah, once you learn the domain, it's not so bad |
| 17:47.56 | thing0 | yeah |
| 17:47.57 | brlcad | the entry to that domain is heavy though |
| 17:48.01 | brlcad | very heavy |
| 17:48.08 | thing0 | that's the problem |
| 17:48.12 | thing0 | it doesn't need to be |
| 17:48.16 | brlcad | you've got a lot of expert knowledge and experience under your belt to be able to do that |
| 17:48.49 | thing0 | I remember a quote from a guy I taught, the domain seems to be counter-intuitive sometimes with a lot of idosyncrincies |
| 17:49.20 | thing0 | everything non inventor in my previous list was from curiosity |
| 17:49.40 | thing0 | I play with the competition so that I could have a better understanding of how the history of it all evolve |
| 17:49.41 | thing0 | d |
| 17:49.52 | thing0 | I don't want to come across as a person who knows it all |
| 17:49.54 | thing0 | cause I don't |
| 17:50.02 | thing0 | I am a tinker by trade :) |
| 17:50.23 | thing0 | although, I did use solidworks for a bit of a longer period |
| 17:52.55 | brlcad | sounds familiar ;) |
| 17:53.39 | thing0 | Both of the above waste my time (which I personally consider rather precious), distract me from my work |
| 17:53.43 | brlcad | you at least have an understanding and appreciation for how easy it can/should be and want it to be better, that's great |
| 17:53.47 | thing0 | OMG I have used that before |
| 17:54.39 | brlcad | so do you code as well, or mostly user-level interaction? |
| 17:55.06 | brlcad | sounds like you know how to code |
| 17:55.45 | thing0 | i taught myself C when I was bored |
| 17:56.02 | thing0 | before going to uni and sitting through a C class which I already knew |
| 17:56.05 | thing0 | :) |
| 17:56.38 | thing0 | it's a skill that I have used every now and then |
| 17:56.54 | thing0 | I am using it at the moment at my current job to help automate some tasks |
| 17:56.59 | thing0 | but I mean |
| 17:57.06 | thing0 | it is extremly simple |
| 17:57.16 | thing0 | I need to ramp up my programming skills a bit |
| 17:57.21 | thing0 | they are a tad dusty :D |
| 17:57.47 | brlcad | gotcha |
| 17:57.58 | thing0 | just had more important things ;) |
| 17:58.13 | thing0 | teaching CAD requires you to drive the program, not write it ;) |
| 17:59.10 | brlcad | yep |
| 17:59.39 | brlcad | whilst working on the docs for brl-cad, code trickles almost to a halt |
| 18:00.10 | brlcad | documentation is a full-time job in itself, and a critical one depending on the interface |
| 18:00.25 | thing0 | yeah I know what you mean |
| 18:00.47 | thing0 | I have had to be a heck of a lot more thoughtful in my little automation exercise at work |
| 18:00.59 | thing0 | I want it to be fully traceable |
| 18:01.15 | thing0 | cause the software we are using from our client is a bit sketchy |
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| 18:30.25 | brlcad | there he be, howdy Waimea |
| 18:35.12 | akreal | hello everybody! |
| 18:35.57 | brlcad | hello akreal |
| 18:37.10 | thing0 | hey akreal |
| 18:38.34 | akreal | i see that you discussed toolkit for the GUI, what do you think about Qt? |
| 18:41.45 | thing0 | well |
| 18:41.45 | thing0 | I was looking at this before |
| 18:41.45 | thing0 | just recently |
| 18:41.45 | thing0 | Qt is quite good |
| 18:41.45 | thing0 | I have tinkered with it before |
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| 18:42.40 | brlcad | Qt is very good, their biggest limitation (imho) is their half-free licensing (which makes using them political), perception of complexity, and limited cross-platform support (i.e. to more than just win, mac, linux) |
| 18:43.07 | brlcad | otherwise, they're probably the best toolkit right now, with lots over their biggest competitor, gtk |
| 18:43.44 | brlcad | that said, they also push the same general gui interface of windows, icons, desktops, etc with anything non-standard being just as hard if not harder than going all-out custom (gui-wise) |
| 18:45.06 | thing0 | hehe I was about to talk about the licensing issue, but I thought I would check incase something had changed since the last time I played with qt (a year or two back ) |
| 18:45.26 | brlcad | blender's approach of a gui fully designed in opengl is a great one (imho) as it is the most expressive for something as complex as this task domain, but lacks in other regards of consistency and integration -- that mainly being a limitation of their implementation itself, though, and not opengl guis in general |
| 18:45.47 | brlcad | thing0: it's bad enough that you had to check -- that's what causes the political charge |
| 18:47.36 | brlcad | if you look for opengl gui toolkits, though, there isn't much out there (that I've found) that is any good |
| 18:47.37 | brlcad | the best you can probably find popularity-wise is cegui |
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| 18:49.31 | brlcad | i have a whole matrix of concerns written down in a spreadsheet somewhere that talks about all of the various weighted considerations and available approaches |
| 18:50.33 | brlcad | ah, here we go |
| 18:50.40 | brlcad | tk, cegui, gtk, qt, clangui, wxwidgets, agar, libgui, fltk, custom |
| 18:51.02 | smallfoot- | oh many |
| 18:51.11 | brlcad | that was just gui toolkits |
| 18:51.21 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 18:51.34 | brlcad | for windowing and context management, that was a completely separate consideration |
| 18:52.36 | thing0 | i used fltk |
| 18:52.38 | brlcad | qt, clanlib, osg, sdl, ogre, java, gtk, glut, wxwidgets, custom (in no particular order) |
| 18:52.43 | thing0 | it was quite good |
| 18:52.49 | thing0 | so simple and lightweight |
| 18:52.55 | thing0 | fully configurable |
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| 18:56.07 | brlcad | yeah, it's got lots of nice attributes and configurability |
| 18:56.16 | brlcad | even customization, ala http://www.fltk.org/applications/images/SpiralSynth.png |
| 18:56.23 | thing0 | yeah |
| 18:56.35 | thing0 | I was using it on a personal project |
| 18:56.57 | thing0 | so I spent at least a month or 2 using it |
| 18:57.04 | thing0 | was quite fun ;) |
| 18:57.05 | brlcad | their downsides are similar to cegui though |
| 18:57.30 | brlcad | fixed widgets iirc, not scalable -- and not drawn via opengl? (don't remember) |
| 18:58.02 | brlcad | making seamless integration with a 3d environment (widget-wise) a bit difficult/impossible |
| 18:58.34 | thing0 | yeah |
| 18:58.39 | thing0 | i mean |
| 18:58.43 | brlcad | and they do lose points on perception and popularity |
| 18:58.46 | thing0 | I cannot confirm nor deny that |
| 18:59.22 | thing0 | based off UI interface we were discussing before |
| 18:59.37 | thing0 | shouldn't we just be looking at a open gl front end |
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| 19:00.22 | thing0 | hi RodGallowGlass |
| 19:00.32 | RodGallowGlass | hey |
| 19:00.48 | brlcad | that's why I broke it out into graphics context and gui separately since you can embed many of the toolkits in any context |
| 19:01.59 | brlcad | even for the UI discussed, that could still be implemented custom or via toolkits like cegui, libgui, or customized versions of those even |
| 19:02.16 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 19:02.19 | brlcad | RodGallowGlass: glad to read you made some .1 progress :) |
| 19:02.24 | thing0 | I see what ur getting at |
| 19:02.29 | RodGallowGlass | :) |
| 19:02.40 | RodGallowGlass | forced, i hate forcing things ;) |
| 19:03.31 | brlcad | tis good progress though |
| 19:03.44 | RodGallowGlass | yeah, I'm happy |
| 19:03.45 | brlcad | and you already helped pin a couple issues down in .1 |
| 19:03.56 | RodGallowGlass | didn't mean to ;) |
| 19:05.58 | RodGallowGlass | could it be possible the x11 summary report is inverted, i mean it said no x11 but seems to be building agaionst it anyway. |
| 19:07.35 | RodGallowGlass | well while this churns away, i'm going to visit the garden, be back later |
| 19:18.15 | thing0 | brb |
| 20:07.20 | thing0 | i'm going now |
| 20:07.24 | thing0 | cya later people |
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| 23:03.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: don't dereference null if we're failing early |
| 23:18.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/moss.sh: fix call to pixdiff and ws |
| 23:53.01 | RodGallowGlass | ;) |
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| 01:38.10 | RodGallowGlass | winsock.h, unistd.h, shouldn't that be one or the other? ahh never mind I keep forgetting I'm on a Cygwin system here :) |
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| 03:07.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: use common.h so it can work on non-configure platforms too |
| 03:08.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: don't need SUNOS now that he found the right one |
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| 05:07.59 | brlcad | howdy cad13 |
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| 09:50.38 | yukonbob | can anybody explain the way to use the dsp primitive, and any 'gotchas' associated with it (ie: is it considered experimental (and why), does it incur a large performance penalty?, etc.) |
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| 15:02.40 | thing0 | hey all |
| 15:02.44 | thing0 | hey brlcad |
| 15:08.51 | brlcad | howdy |
| 15:09.33 | thing0 | I replied to your test email |
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| 15:20.58 | thing0 | alright |
| 15:21.01 | thing0 | me sleep time |
| 15:21.08 | thing0 | have real work tomorrow |
| 15:21.09 | thing0 | hehe |
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| 18:01.52 | ``Erik | I WANT MY DMAN TOY CAR@!#~! |
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| 20:18.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: Remove the standalone pullback curve impl from compilation (need to delete files later) |
| 20:20.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Debug IGES parsing/handling and openNURBS extensions. Still not building a simple B-Rep correctly (trim vertices not agreeing) |
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| 21:27.50 | yukonbob | I'll put this out one more time :) |
| 21:27.57 | yukonbob | can anybody explain the way to use the dsp primitive, and any 'gotchas' associated with it (ie: is it considered experimental (and why), does it incur a large performance penalty?, etc.) |
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| 21:32.00 | brlcad | yukonbob: hm, i missed that question originally apparently |
| 21:32.06 | brlcad | and yes, I can explain how to use it |
| 21:32.39 | brlcad | there aren't any gotchas that come to mind immediately, but there probably are some that I just implicitly don't think about any more -- it's certainly not experimental |
| 21:33.48 | brlcad | it's actually a rather highly optimized terrain in-core implementation, one of the fastest you'll find particularly for ray-tracing massive datasets |
| 21:34.21 | brlcad | basically to create a dsp, you need to prepare a data file -- this data file needs to be a binary file filled with unsigned short integer values |
| 21:34.45 | brlcad | there are a variety of ways to get that, depending on what format you have to start with, but a simple image can work for example as a starting point |
| 21:34.57 | yukonbob | ah --- I was guessing what the format might be, and I've been trying arrays of text values with various seperators ;) |
| 21:37.36 | yukonbob | is Create->dsp the only way to create one, or is there an mged command-line version as well? |
| 21:39.06 | brlcad | anything you can do in the gui had an mged command line variant .. *anything* ;) |
| 21:39.18 | yukonbob | !nice -- that's what I like to hear :) |
| 21:39.48 | brlcad | the gui really just kicks off commands, so it's all uniform |
| 21:40.09 | brlcad | there are, though, plenty of things you can do on the command line that you can't do via the gui |
| 21:46.19 | yukonbob | brlcad: when you're talking about using an image for the shortint values, what do you mean? Is there a special header required for the dsp data, or can I just use a C prog that dumps shortints to a file and use that? |
| 21:48.52 | brlcad | yukonbob: heh, if you want to write a C prog that dumps shortints, then you're golden |
| 21:49.05 | brlcad | but there may already be tools depending on what data you're starting with |
| 21:50.53 | yukonbob | brlcad: I'm not starting with any data per se, just exploring brlcad :) -- I _really_ like the precision, and the flexibility/strength of using Tcl in it, so now I'm exploring the features I haven't touched yet, and trying to figure out what I can use it for besides rapid image prototyping... |
| 21:51.16 | brlcad | e.g. if I have a brl-cad .pix file (3-channel, 24 bpp interleaved RGB raw binary image file) -- I can use pix-bw (1-channel 8 bpp raw b&w binary image file) to get monotonic values and then use 'cv' to convert to unsigned short ints |
| 21:53.12 | yukonbob | OK -- that's something I can try... |
| 21:53.40 | brlcad | here's an example that I did a few months back pretty quickly -- taking data for the puget sound: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/projects/large_models/ps.html |
| 21:54.12 | brlcad | those happen to be 16bit values already (0-65535) which is what the dsp uses |
| 21:54.33 | brlcad | create a dsp, accentuate the vertical scaling for effect, and you get http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/puget_mged.png |
| 21:55.40 | yukonbob | OK -- the first site you gave is where you grabbed the data from, then the ftp.brlcad.org[...] is your processing of that same data... |
| 21:55.48 | brlcad | right |
| 21:57.20 | brlcad | when you create a dsp, you have two options -- you can keep the data in an external file, or stash the data into the .g file |
| 21:57.20 | brlcad | use the "in" command to create one |
| 22:02.30 | yukonbob | excellent -- now, before I take too much more of your time (and you may not have a quick answer for this) -- what can I do with brlcad besides generate images to screen -- I see when I render that I can get clues about collisions in 3d space where object "illegally" intersect, and I can spin/flip/cut-away objects, etc., but what about what I've read about ballistic analysis, and radiation, etc... is this stuff done w/ data that brlcad knows a |
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| 22:12.12 | brlcad | yukonbob: your question was cut-off at "that brlcad knows a" |
| 22:12.30 | yukonbob | that brlcad knows about, and does it ship with these tools? Is there a site that scratches the surface of features like this? (I'm opening up a _huge_ subject area I realize, and just need a pointer to a site, or we can talk about this over time at some later date ;) |
| 22:12.42 | brlcad | there are a variety of geometric analyses that you can run as well as other visualizations |
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| 22:14.46 | brlcad | yukonbob: brl-cad tries to strictly limit itself to solid modeling, geometric representation, geometric analysis (answering questions about the physical properties of something modeled) -- the other analyses that we integrate with are predominantly external codes with massive efforts of their own into various methodologies |
| 22:15.21 | brlcad | e.g. the various equations for ballistics penetration are not something you'll likely find in brl-cad or on any website for that matter.. |
| 22:17.26 | RodGallowGlass | brlcad: that command line entry in the gui is quite nice, having the gui up and issuing rot 10 10 10 is nifty,got it to work in that mingw build I sent you too. |
| 22:18.02 | yukonbob | OK -- I'm not actually interested in ballistics or radiation, but was curious about what else can be done w/ brlcad and it's data -- there are references to radiation, ballistics, etc on various sites, so that's why I brought those up... I'll have more questions about the "answering questions about physical properties" later -- for now I'll let you get on with your day :) |
| 22:18.52 | yukonbob | brlcad: thanks very much for your time... I appreciate it :) |
| 22:19.30 | brlcad | yukonbob: brl-cad integrated into a lot of external analysis codes in particular for it's ray-tracing engine -- it's rather trivial to take a given model and ask brl-cad questions about a shotline .. where is the geometry on a given shotline, how thick is it, what material is it, what was the obliquity, etc -- that in turn can drive other decisions |
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| 22:21.57 | brlcad | what brl-cad can do analysis-wise, though, are geometry analysis questions too -- are there overlapping materials (rtcheck, g_qa), what's the weight of a given component (rtweight, g_qa), center of mass, what's the projected presented area of something (rtarea), what's the bounding box size, etc |
| 22:22.30 | brlcad | on the ray-tracing side, it has tools for simulating optical energy, multispectral (thermal, xray, infrared) energy, performing edge detection (rtedge) for hidden line renderings, and a bit more |
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| 22:29.35 | yukonbob | brlcad: I'm pretty excited by BRL-CAD -- seems like there's lots of space for exploration... I'm glad it's got a tcl interface for scripting too, which opens up possibilities... thx again for your insight, and talk soon |
| 22:31.16 | brlcad | yukonbob: no problem, i'm here most of the time or will answer the log later if i'm not ;) |
| 22:31.50 | brlcad | we're looking for new devs too so you're more than welcome to jump in -- anything I can do to help you along, feel free to let me know ;) |
| 22:33.15 | yukonbob | brlcad: thx -- I'm just working on a port of brlcad to NetBSD (via pkgsrc), and think I noticed some things that can be improved in the build process --- once I verify, I'll be sure to pass that info on, and otherwise, look forward to being part of the BRL-CAD community :) |
| 22:33.55 | brlcad | sweet |
| 22:37.56 | PrezKennedy | hey brlcad, have you ever visited http://thedailywtf.com/ ? |
| 22:43.28 | brlcad | I have now |
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| 04:06.04 | RodGallowGlass | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos <----- why can't I get 7-10 to do this |
| 04:06.28 | RodGallowGlass | windowsside album |
| 04:07.27 | RodGallowGlass | framebuffer came up sweetly, had four open at once |
| 04:10.40 | RodGallowGlass | hah faceplate gui now works, i wont post another shot for now |
| 04:11.24 | RodGallowGlass | may I change the version number on my copy of 7.8.4 or is that prohibited? |
| 04:16.13 | brlcad | it's open source, you can do wahtever you want with it... just what's the point? |
| 04:16.46 | brlcad | it doesn't provide any benefit |
| 04:17.54 | RodGallowGlass | to distinguish what im doing from whats on sourceforge, or does the stuff on sourceforge dissapear when a new release comes out |
| 04:19.44 | RodGallowGlass | btw what are you doing still up :) |
| 04:21.20 | RodGallowGlass | you worry that I'll spread it around? |
| 04:21.56 | RodGallowGlass | it's not going anyfurther than me and you unless *you spread it around |
| 04:22.26 | RodGallowGlass | but im trying to convert to 7.10 |
| 04:30.18 | yukonbob | brlcad: 1 quick q -- when rendering large DSPs, (like that pac. north west stuff we were talking about) are gob & gobs of RAM typically required? I've got 1G RAM, but am dying w/ insufficient memory... can I tune rt? (I've even tried "-j 10,10,50,50", but still run out of memory) btw, I've got 4G swap... |
| 04:32.13 | brlcad | it is an in-core algorithm, so it has to be able to represent a 3D version of the data in memory (which is some multiplier of the input datasize that escapes me at the moment, but is larger of course) |
| 04:32.47 | brlcad | the acceleration structure it uses to progress fast through the dsp also takes up some memory space |
| 04:33.22 | brlcad | how big is the data set? |
| 04:33.27 | yukonbob | out of curiousity, what are the specs of the machine you used to build pugeot sound? |
| 04:33.50 | yukonbob | I'm using the smallest of that Pacific Northwest set... |
| 04:34.10 | brlcad | the size of the image being rendered doesn't matter much at all, it's the dsp data itself that will likely dominate |
| 04:34.17 | yukonbob | 37G |
| 04:34.32 | yukonbob | Megs, rather :) |
| 04:34.42 | brlcad | hehe, i was going to say... |
| 04:36.09 | brlcad | you mean the puget sound dataset? |
| 04:37.50 | yukonbob | oh no -- I'm talking about the whole region -- the specfic name I'm using is...disappointment |
| 04:38.19 | brlcad | i mean this is data you have then from some other source? |
| 04:39.07 | brlcad | more importantly, when you create the dsp, does it show the wireframe in mged? |
| 04:39.08 | yukonbob | "disappoint" rather -- for Cape Disappointment -- it's from http://duff.geology.washington.edu/data/raster/tenmeter/onebytwo10/ |
| 04:39.20 | yukonbob | wireframe looks like I imagine it should... |
| 04:40.19 | yukonbob | 1542x12018 data points |
| 04:40.25 | brlcad | can you post up the .g somewhere so I can look at it? (can upload via anon ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming) |
| 04:41.03 | brlcad | hm, that is indeed just 37MB |
| 04:45.45 | yukonbob | brlcad: can you unzip bzip2 compressed-files? |
| 04:47.29 | yukonbob | "disappointment.dsp.bz2" incoming... |
| 04:52.00 | PrezKennedy | i want FiOS!! |
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| 04:56.03 | yukonbob | brlcad: disappointment.dsp.bz2 is uploaded --- I renamed the extention .dsp for my own identification, but w/i the .zip archive, it was the .bil file... |
| 05:03.28 | brlcad | looking |
| 05:06.41 | yukonbob | ...then I just open new db, and "in testmap dsp" file, [filename], 1542, 12018, 0, ad, 1, 1 |
| 05:07.31 | yukonbob | sometimes I'll even get a malloc issue at this point, but if I restart gmed, the 'testmap' is there, and seems usable. |
| 05:08.53 | brlcad | k |
| 05:09.05 | yukonbob | wireframe looks "reasonable" and is zoom-able/rotate-able, etc., but a simple "rt -o map.pix" chokes for me: |
| 05:09.30 | yukonbob | Additional mem=8192., #malloc=34, #free=2, #realloc=1 (32 retained) 0 malloc1738539264 dsp_bb array |
| 05:09.33 | yukonbob | bu_malloc: Insufficient memory available, sbrk(0)=xc745000 |
| 05:09.36 | yukonbob | bu_malloc: malloc failure |
| 05:09.38 | yukonbob | Raytrace complete. |
| 05:09.58 | brlcad | trying to allocate 1.7GB |
| 05:10.50 | yukonbob | ... I guess I'm just shy, and that's that for that, then :P ? |
| 05:12.51 | yukonbob | otherwise, I can strip data --- ie: remove every other column in odd rows, and skip even rows to "take strips" out of data and interpolate down... |
| 05:14.20 | brlcad | i'm not convinced there's not something else going on, a bug that was introduced perhaps |
| 05:14.57 | yukonbob | I'm running 7.8, btw |
| 05:15.55 | yukonbob | out of curiousity, what are the specs of the machine that you rendered Pugeot Sound with? |
| 05:15.56 | brlcad | have to rebuild here, so it'll be a little while before I can test |
| 05:16.00 | yukonbob | np |
| 05:18.24 | brlcad | iirc, I rendered that on a dual G4 a couple years ago, 2GB ram |
| 05:18.57 | yukonbob | ok -- and that dataset is substantially larger than "disappointment"... |
| 05:19.39 | brlcad | yeah, using the 16kx16k dataset .. about 500MB raw data |
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| 05:39.52 | yukonbob | brlcad: fyi -- I downsampled the data (stipped every second row, every second column) to make dataset 0.25 of previous size, and still fails w/ malloc... |
| 05:42.08 | yukonbob | ...and occasionally fails w/ malloc on creating the dsp, and crashes... but enough bug reports for tonight -- good evening :) |
| 05:50.06 | brlcad | yukonbob: thanks for the reports.. i'll have to call it a night as well and pick up on this tomorrow -- it's highly suspect that you are just up against some bug |
| 05:52.00 | brlcad | i'm curious how you parsed dem data so quickly too... folks have begged for a dem to dsp converter for quite a while |
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| 07:58.37 | brlcad | yukonbob: well the good news is that I can reproduce the problem with that data set, it goes into a frenzy getting stuck in an allocation loop of some sort during prep |
| 07:58.58 | brlcad | shouldn't be too hard to pin down since I can reproduce it .. let you know what I find out |
| 08:01.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dsp primitive is going into what seems to be an unbounded memory allocation loop inside dsp_layers during prep, reported by yukonbob (thx) |
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| 12:07.06 | tarzeau | brlcad: what is the status on modification and redistribution of the Documentation at http://brlcad.com/ ? |
| 12:07.21 | tarzeau | brlcad: is it possible to allow for change/redistribution in the documents? and the sources? |
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| 12:37.39 | Laniakea | tarzeau: hi |
| 12:37.48 | tarzeau | hi Laniakea |
| 12:37.57 | tarzeau | karel! |
| 12:38.09 | tarzeau | Laniakea: how are you able to build brlcad on linux? |
| 12:38.29 | tarzeau | Laniakea: and do you know www.sauerbraten.org ? |
| 12:38.43 | Laniakea | tarzeau: just compile from the sources |
| 12:39.07 | Laniakea | tarzeau: no I didn't know sauerbraten |
| 12:39.10 | Laniakea | is it free software? |
| 12:39.17 | tarzeau | yes it is |
| 12:39.40 | tarzeau | i get this error when i compile from the source: .libs/itclStubLib.o: In function `Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 12:39.43 | tarzeau | /var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 12:40.41 | Laniakea | oh freeware, sucks |
| 12:40.42 | Laniakea | tarzeau: actually the latest brl-cad doesn't compile on my openbsd |
| 12:40.49 | Laniakea | so I use the one before :) |
| 12:40.56 | tarzeau | which version is that? |
| 12:41.03 | tarzeau | why does it not compile for you, same reason? |
| 12:41.18 | tarzeau | do you use special configure parameters? |
| 12:41.53 | Laniakea | tarzeau: the working one is 7.8.4 |
| 12:42.02 | Laniakea | I don't remember the nonworking one and don't remember the error message |
| 12:44.51 | tarzeau | Laniakea: k, i try that |
| 12:45.08 | tarzeau | Laniakea: any links2 news? and will you play or model stuff in sauerbraten? |
| 12:45.25 | Laniakea | tarzeau: no, since sauerbraten is not free software |
| 12:45.30 | Laniakea | we fixed some serious bugs in links |
| 12:50.12 | elite01_ | Laniakea, the engine is free |
| 12:50.53 | tarzeau | elite01_: i'm working on free maps,textures,skyboxes |
| 12:51.01 | tarzeau | elite01_: gonna find someone to make free music/sound effects |
| 12:51.24 | tarzeau | Laniakea: wonder what those serious bugs are... |
| 12:51.39 | tarzeau | Laniakea: any plan to stop development of version 0.x/1.x of links? |
| 12:56.45 | Laniakea | I don't know about any plan |
| 13:00.30 | ``Erik | what's the error with 7.10.0 on obsd? |
| 13:00.52 | tarzeau | i might've been missing libraries, retrying |
| 13:01.21 | ``Erik | heh, damn, I looked at sauerbraten and went "wow, that looks like cube, did cube change its name?" |
| 13:01.33 | ``Erik | is lee (eihrul/phinode) still working on it? |
| 13:01.33 | tarzeau | ``Erik: yes :) |
| 13:01.44 | tarzeau | ``Erik: it's cube 2, yeah they do, on quakenet #sauerbraten |
| 13:02.18 | ``Erik | when he was going to cmu |
| 13:02.22 | tarzeau | heh |
| 13:02.26 | ``Erik | small world |
| 13:02.30 | tarzeau | indeed |
| 13:02.57 | tarzeau | did cube also head the built-in editor? |
| 13:03.13 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 13:03.25 | tarzeau | sauerbraten has a built-in editor |
| 13:03.30 | tarzeau | i see |
| 13:04.28 | ``Erik | um, my interests were more science/engineering visualization, internals (working on ogl drivers, etc) and I flirted a bit with making a space combat game similar to the old xwing and wing commander games |
| 13:04.38 | ``Erik | "another fps" wasn't really on my radar |
| 13:04.44 | tarzeau | i see |
| 13:04.50 | tarzeau | it's also an RPG |
| 13:04.54 | tarzeau | www.eisenstern.com :) |
| 13:05.13 | ``Erik | heh, all my free time is blown on WoW these days :( *cry* |
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| 15:54.42 | thing0 | hey everyone |
| 15:54.42 | thing0 | what's up? |
| 15:56.36 | elite01 | thing0, the ceiling *hahahalolololroflmao* |
| 16:04.28 | thing0 | lol |
| 16:04.36 | thing0 | funny elite01 funny... |
| 16:04.39 | thing0 | ;) |
| 16:04.58 | elite01 | absolutely |
| 16:05.34 | elite01 | normally, i'm not like that, but this is the low mark of the week |
| 16:25.49 | ``Erik | uh huh, rrriiiigggghhhhhttttt |
| 16:25.50 | elite01 | o rly! |
| 16:25.50 | ``Erik | damnit |
| 16:25.50 | ``Erik | just hAD to remind me |
| 16:27.36 | ``Erik | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/lolcode_r.jpg |
| 16:27.37 | ``Erik | awesome |
| 16:58.08 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.117.113) | |
| 17:56.32 | brlcad | tarzeau: yes, change/redistribution is allowed -- some are public domain, some are BSD licensed |
| 17:57.03 | tarzeau | brlcad: is that written somewhere? |
| 17:57.12 | tarzeau | i can't find any info it's public domain or bsd licensed |
| 17:57.21 | tarzeau | hey docelic |
| 17:57.57 | brlcad | tarzeau: alas, the docs aren't doc'd very well :) |
| 17:58.11 | tarzeau | http://bp1.blogger.com/_MqThGo7hFdU/RldMKz1NEJI/AAAAAAAAAEA/qCFzfluWH94/s1600-h/ohalp.jpg |
| 17:58.18 | tarzeau | ``Erik: for ya |
| 17:58.30 | brlcad | i can tell you as needed, it's generally a matter of whether the document was created before open sourcing or whether it's a signficant derivative |
| 17:58.42 | docelic | hey hey tarzeau |
| 17:58.52 | tarzeau | docelic: since where are you using brlcad? and what for? |
| 17:58.54 | brlcad | pre-open source documents, like the tutorial series, are all public domain |
| 17:59.02 | docelic | tarzeau: not using, just interested |
| 17:59.22 | brlcad | those that are "part of the sources" and mostly those in CVS are all BDL (BSD doc license) |
| 17:59.29 | brlcad | and that's stated in the COPYING file |
| 17:59.56 | tarzeau | ok thanks |
| 18:00.03 | tarzeau | first need to get the debian package properly done |
| 18:00.08 | tarzeau | docelic: i see :) |
| 18:01.46 | jack- | tarzeau: how are you handling the structure? |
| 18:01.57 | tarzeau | jack-: what structure? |
| 18:02.05 | jack- | like, you certainly dont want to stuff all the binaries into $prefix/bin |
| 18:02.15 | tarzeau | jack-: all binaries go into /usr/bin |
| 18:02.28 | tarzeau | if they are not supposed to be run from users they go to /usr/lib/brlcad/ |
| 18:02.30 | jack- | i let brlcad completely reside in $prefix/lib/brlcad |
| 18:02.45 | tarzeau | jack-: and you got debian (or ubuntu)? |
| 18:02.50 | jack- | (for fink/macosx that is..pretty debianish) |
| 18:02.51 | tarzeau | jack-: currently i'm not able to build it |
| 18:03.00 | jack- | yes, ubuntu, but it doesnt matter for brlcad ;) |
| 18:03.01 | tarzeau | ah yeah, i looked into fink lately |
| 18:03.05 | jack- | i'm a mac guy |
| 18:03.08 | tarzeau | can you build it on ubuntu? |
| 18:03.13 | jack- | never tried |
| 18:03.19 | tarzeau | jack-: cool, me too (indirectly, nextstep/openstep). you into cocoa? |
| 18:03.22 | jack- | does it break at sdl stuff? |
| 18:03.26 | jack- | not at all :) |
| 18:03.43 | jack- | ..if yes, disable adrt and leave it out |
| 18:03.50 | jack- | not mature enough to be useful |
| 18:03.55 | jack- | and doesnt like to get built |
| 18:04.00 | tarzeau | no, this is the problem: |
| 18:04.13 | tarzeau | .libs/itclStubLib.o: In function `Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 18:04.13 | tarzeau | /var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStucollect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 18:04.33 | jack- | hrm |
| 18:04.37 | tarzeau | .libs/itclStubLib.o: In function `Itcl_InitStubs': |
| 18:04.37 | tarzeau | /var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 18:04.56 | jack- | and if you get it to build its own libtcl/libtk? |
| 18:05.03 | jack- | can be done with configure options |
| 18:05.09 | tarzeau | jack-: do i want that? |
| 18:05.12 | jack- | maybe |
| 18:05.33 | jack- | i'm lucky enough to have a brlcad-compatible libtcl api |
| 18:05.39 | tarzeau | you shouldn't do that on debian systems.. but then |
| 18:05.48 | jack- | but my libtik caused trouble too, so i just let brlcad do its own one |
| 18:05.52 | tarzeau | yuck src/ is full of other projects |
| 18:05.54 | jack- | problem solved, works 100% |
| 18:05.59 | jack- | yes :P |
| 18:06.00 | tarzeau | what's the configure options for you? |
| 18:06.05 | jack- | complete UTAHRLE etc |
| 18:06.24 | jack- | ./configure --prefix=$MYPREFIX --otheroptions |
| 18:06.25 | tarzeau | maybe it's a start to get ugly packages, then work them down |
| 18:06.35 | tarzeau | i want to know your --otheroptions :) |
| 18:06.43 | jack- | just do ./configure --help and read that bible.. |
| 18:06.46 | jack- | ok hold on a sec |
| 18:06.47 | tarzeau | ok |
| 18:06.56 | tarzeau | finishing to build pixie first.. but then i'll check that |
| 18:08.00 | jack- | pixie rocks :) great renderer |
| 18:08.32 | jack- | arent you pretty jealous sometimes when you see those 200 extra repos and 20000 packages in ubuntu.. |
| 18:08.47 | tarzeau | not at all |
| 18:08.52 | tarzeau | i hate unofficial repos |
| 18:09.04 | tarzeau | they break stuff, they are of lowest quality |
| 18:09.09 | tarzeau | i like to have stuff in debian main |
| 18:09.11 | jack- | i can understand that, yeah |
| 18:09.25 | tarzeau | ubuntu doesn't have half as much of the software debian sid+experimental has |
| 18:09.30 | tarzeau | jack-: besides i'm a packaging whore: |
| 18:09.33 | jack- | oh? cool :) |
| 18:09.38 | tarzeau | jack-: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=gurkan@linuks.mine.nu |
| 18:09.55 | tarzeau | (doing this also at work, well got the job after i was doing many packages) |
| 18:10.00 | tarzeau | pretty cool actually |
| 18:10.32 | jack- | :) |
| 18:10.53 | jack- | http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jackfink |
| 18:10.55 | jack- | = me |
| 18:11.09 | jack- | not less of a packaging whore i guess |
| 18:11.12 | tarzeau | jack-: hehe :) and i got like 33 ports in freebsd |
| 18:11.27 | jack- | but fink is fun, i discovered pretty much all the stuff myself |
| 18:11.28 | tarzeau | i got a mac os x box too at work, did we meet in #fink ? |
| 18:11.34 | tarzeau | i tried to make some debian2fink tool |
| 18:11.38 | jack- | some things never got packaged into any dist yet :) |
| 18:11.46 | jack- | might well have been :) |
| 18:11.50 | tarzeau | jack-: check http://gnu.ethz.ch/fink/debian2fink.txt |
| 18:11.56 | tarzeau | jack-: which? which? |
| 18:12.00 | tarzeau | i'll make debian packages :) |
| 18:12.26 | jack- | google for sphinx project |
| 18:12.26 | jack- | some .edu site |
| 18:12.27 | tarzeau | is there stats of fink packages and its maintainers? i could add them to http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/ |
| 18:12.47 | jack- | hmm, i'm not in the core team..i'll check |
| 18:13.00 | jack- | think there's no real stats system at all, yet |
| 18:13.27 | tarzeau | do you know condor wisconsin ? |
| 18:13.39 | jack- | the name rings a bell |
| 18:13.44 | jack- | but i have no idea atm |
| 18:13.46 | tarzeau | job distribution |
| 18:15.44 | jack- | cksfv, evolvotron, bwm-ng, iftop, throttled are probably the rarest ones on the list |
| 18:15.54 | jack- | not sure if they ever got packaged anywhere else yet |
| 18:16.25 | jack- | packaging stuff is sweet, somehow |
| 18:16.33 | tarzeau | oh evolvotron looks interesting |
| 18:16.38 | jack- | 100% legal and still some kind of piracy ;) |
| 18:16.41 | tarzeau | jack-: yeah many people get to use software |
| 18:16.42 | jack- | yeah it rocks! |
| 18:17.06 | tarzeau | jack-: like i found www.sauerbraten.org as a package, i got addicted to badly, since a week |
| 18:17.07 | tarzeau | now to help improve the game i found misfit model 3d and packaged it right away :) |
| 18:17.14 | jack- | cool :) |
| 18:17.22 | tarzeau | then stumpled upon old wishlist bugreports like brlcad and pixie .. doing them as well |
| 18:17.54 | jack- | once i know you better, i'll tell you what made me discover sphinx2/sphinx3 and like 5 other open source speech recognizin tools |
| 18:18.01 | jack- | life rocks, somehow ;) |
| 18:18.24 | tarzeau | heh k |
| 18:18.38 | tarzeau | if you ever are bored check out my http://livecd.gnustep.org/ |
| 18:19.20 | jack- | nice :) |
| 18:19.35 | jack- | like we have a guy in #fink who does an own slackintosh thing |
| 18:19.38 | jack- | fun as well |
| 18:20.02 | jack- | anyway, i need to jump out |
| 18:20.05 | jack- | later :) |
| 18:20.08 | tarzeau | jack-: you know what fink package is missing? opencubicplayer |
| 18:20.10 | tarzeau | later |
| 18:20.16 | jack- | opencubic? |
| 18:20.20 | tarzeau | yeah music player |
| 18:20.45 | jack- | better than amarok/xmms/juk/noatun/beep/etc/etc? |
| 18:20.50 | tarzeau | http://cow.ethz.ch/ocp2.png |
| 18:20.59 | tarzeau | http://cow.ethz.ch/ocp.png |
| 18:21.07 | tarzeau | rly! kickass i swear. |
| 18:21.24 | jack- | cute :) |
| 18:21.32 | jack- | i'll check what it needs |
| 18:21.47 | tarzeau | cu |
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| 20:36.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: debug to stdout instead of error (easier to log everything together) |
| 20:39.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Add more debug statements... fix trim curve orientation issue (openNURBS trims must be properly oriented whether or not the model-space curve is) and fix isoparametric flag issue |
| 20:41.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: Fix IGES string->double conversion bugs (duh) |
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| 20:45.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Fix brep plot() problem with non-trivial faces (i.e. those coming from IGES), perform simplified edge rendering (still needs to be fleshed out to handle non-linear curves) |
| 20:47.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add some additional debug statements for testing pullback_curve behavior |
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| 03:54.50 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 05:16.10 | brlcad | python /names |
| 05:16.22 | brlcad | alllrighty then |
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| 07:57.31 | jack- | tarzeau: "ksquirrel" is missing in debian+ubuntu |
| 07:57.37 | jack- | wonder why, its a nice one |
| 07:59.27 | tarzeau | jack-: kde software? i avoid all qt/gtk/kde/gnome software |
| 07:59.28 | jack- | let me know if you think we should "found" #packaging-whores on freenode or so :P |
| 07:59.33 | jack- | yeah, kde stuff |
| 07:59.35 | jack- | ok then |
| 07:59.42 | tarzeau | heh, no but did you look at the debian2fink thing? |
| 07:59.49 | jack- | evolvotron is qt too though ;) |
| 07:59.56 | tarzeau | i wasn't able to build evolvotron |
| 07:59.56 | jack- | but it owns..and yes i did |
| 08:00.01 | tarzeau | some qt exceptions are ok |
| 08:00.07 | jack- | hold on a sec |
| 08:00.16 | tarzeau | ++ -c -pipe -Wall -W -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math '-DEVOLVOTRON_VERSION="0.4.0"' '-DEVOLVOTRON_BUILD="0.4.0 (Build options: Release)"' -DNDEBUG -DQT_NO_ASCII_CAST -pthread -D_REENTRANT -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -DQT_SHARED -DQT_TABLET_SUPPORT -I/usr/share/qt3/mkspecs/default -I. -I/usr/include/qt3 -Imoc/ -o dialog_favourite.o dialog_favourite.cpp |
| 08:00.21 | tarzeau | mutation_parameters.h:269: error: extra qualification 'MutationParameters::' on member 'random_function_stub' |
| 08:00.24 | tarzeau | mutation_parameters.h:280: error: extra qualification 'MutationParameters::' on member 'random_function' |
| 08:00.28 | tarzeau | function_node.h:136: error: extra qualification 'FunctionNode::' on member 'stubiterations' |
| 08:00.31 | tarzeau | mutatable_image.h:71: warning: unused parameter 'sinz' |
| 08:00.33 | tarzeau | can you help? |
| 08:00.51 | jack- | hold on :) and lets do that somewhere else, the brlcad folks will mind |
| 08:00.54 | jack- | one sec |
| 08:02.35 | jack- | come join #packaging-whores |
| 09:05.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: Add opennurbs_ext functionality to librt |
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| 10:37.48 | yukonbob | can anybody give me some direction to finding out what "cut direction" means in the dsp primitive? |
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| 11:14.12 | producemench | total newby here, sorry, is there a staffer available? |
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| 11:24.09 | producemench | anyone home? |
| 11:24.31 | producemench | I'm looking to set up my brand new BRL CAD on ubuntu |
| 11:24.39 | tarzeau | hey producemench |
| 11:24.47 | producemench | Hiya |
| 11:24.49 | tarzeau | producemench: i'm working on making official packages for debian and ubuntu :) |
| 11:24.49 | producemench | :) |
| 11:24.54 | producemench | yay |
| 11:24.59 | tarzeau | producemench: you get it to build? |
| 11:25.00 | producemench | I got a .deb |
| 11:25.06 | Laniakea_ | tarzeau: do you use brl-cad or do you just port it for debian? |
| 11:25.26 | producemench | i don't port or use yet :( |
| 11:25.28 | tarzeau | Laniakea_: i just want to make the package first, once it works, i might even use it! for sure |
| 11:25.35 | producemench | I just got it from sf |
| 11:25.37 | tarzeau | producemench: from where got you the deb? |
| 11:25.40 | tarzeau | ah that one |
| 11:25.43 | producemench | yep |
| 11:25.46 | producemench | no go yet |
| 11:26.07 | tarzeau | k |
| 11:26.22 | producemench | any idea how to get the first command to work? |
| 11:26.59 | producemench | I used gdebi to install the package but I don't think it's configured right |
| 11:27.44 | producemench | tarz? |
| 11:29.00 | producemench | should I be at the ubuntu forum? |
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| 11:39.04 | tarzeau | i don't know |
| 11:45.42 | producemench | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:45.58 | producemench | hehe |
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| 11:49.04 | producemench | well, I'll try back when I know more about IRC. Good to meet you tarz. Glad you're out there. :) |
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| 13:13.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/plot3.h: one more consistency cleanup (__ in header protection of vmath.h) |
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| 13:33.25 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 15:02.32 | thing0 | hey all |
| 15:02.41 | thing0 | how is everyone? |
| 15:06.41 | tarzeau | fine thanks |
| 15:10.08 | thing0 | that's good |
| 15:21.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: proper for-scope in MSVC 6.0 |
| 15:26.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: evaluate HAVE_DRAND48 before calling drand48 |
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| 17:31.29 | poolio | Should I have a looksy? |
| 17:49.29 | tarzeau | are there plans to make a cocoa interface (for mac os x, and maybe gnustep) of brlcad? |
| 17:57.32 | brlcad | tarzeau: you mean a non-X11 interface or do you really mean a *cocoa* api interface |
| 17:58.21 | brlcad | yeah, for non-x11, aquatk is the way to go and my tests here seem to indicate that it might actually (finally) be stable enough |
| 17:58.53 | brlcad | but i've still not been able to get all of mged up in aquatk without some x11 sneaking in (and crashing mged) |
| 17:59.34 | brlcad | that is still, howver, the "next step" for mged on mac os x |
| 17:59.34 | tarzeau | brlcad: yeah i really mean cocoa, NS* interface |
| 17:59.39 | tarzeau | brlcad: because that'd look so much nicer (on mac os x, and gnustep at least :) |
| 17:59.53 | tarzeau | i know it's wanted a lot, but maybe there's a plan, or someone doing it. who knows? |
| 17:59.59 | brlcad | hm, several folks toyed with the idea and even wrote some initial mock interfaces in cocoa |
| 18:00.31 | brlcad | tarzeau: you do realize that aquatk uses the same look and feel, that's not x11 |
| 18:00.33 | poolio | How bout a _good looking_ x11 interface first ;) |
| 18:00.43 | ``Erik | make tk look good |
| 18:00.46 | tarzeau | poolio: gnustep works on x11! |
| 18:00.50 | ``Erik | then BRL-CAD will look good :D |
| 18:01.15 | tarzeau | poolio: http://io.debian.net/~tar/screenshots/emacs.app.png |
| 18:01.54 | ``Erik | gnustep is such a pain, though, requiring a modified objC compiler and everything :/ |
| 18:01.58 | poolio | tarzeau: yes, is there a point to showing me that? |
| 18:02.10 | poolio | just install osx86 |
| 18:04.41 | brlcad | ayam uses aquatk iirc: http://ayam.sourceforge.net/ayam-macosx-aqua2.png |
| 18:07.39 | jack- | heh |
| 18:08.14 | jack- | i'll feed you some x11 screenshots, but no aqua stuff in my brlcad package for now ;) |
| 18:08.25 | jack- | leaving out adrt even saves me from sdl |
| 18:08.31 | jack- | so it's purely x11 |
| 18:10.32 | jack- | tarzeau: if you run x11 rootless and use a wm like "OroborX" |
| 18:10.44 | jack- | you have pretty much a real aqua interface at least |
| 18:10.54 | tarzeau | ok ok |
| 18:11.10 | tarzeau | i like detachable menus |
| 18:11.25 | tarzeau | it's the feel i like about NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP and their free software gnustep clone |
| 18:11.40 | jack- | yeah |
| 18:11.57 | jack- | afterstep was the first wm i really liked when i started |
| 18:12.09 | jack- | just because of that slight nextstep feel |
| 18:13.57 | poolio | ugh I hate afterstep, and windowmaker. |
| 18:14.40 | jack- | i wouldnt want to use it anymore, but back then i had fun with it :) |
| 18:15.16 | tarzeau | any of you worked with the original of the company NeXT? |
| 18:15.23 | jack- | yup |
| 18:15.30 | jack- | the so called cubes |
| 18:15.35 | tarzeau | yeah :) |
| 18:15.39 | jack- | company of a friend had 3 of them |
| 18:15.40 | tarzeau | jack-: me too: http://gnu.ethz.ch/www.levenez.com/ |
| 18:15.58 | tarzeau | i miss the quality, speed and intuitivness |
| 18:16.14 | tarzeau | openoffice and mozilla (firefox) are just huge monsters |
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| 18:38.38 | brlcad | tarzeau: mged actually has all the hooks in it for detachables menus too with tk |
| 18:38.43 | brlcad | it's just turned off :) |
| 18:38.48 | tarzeau | :) |
| 18:39.13 | brlcad | had it on for a couple releases, but bob had some motivation for turning it off eventually |
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| 19:02.18 | tarzeau | hehe ok |
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| 20:19.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Implement getLeaves and depth support on SurfaceTree for trim preprocessing |
| 20:21.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Finish implementation of preprocess_trims, start implementation on trim support methods (count_intersections), since openNURBS leaves the curve intersection routines unimplemented |
| 20:22.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add delegate implementations of depth and getLeaves for SurfaceTree |
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| 20:33.27 | RodGallowGlass | http://www.pastebin.ca/545645 <---- needs <assert.h> |
| 20:40.57 | ``Erik | thanks :) |
| 20:41.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: missing required header (assert.h) |
| 20:50.28 | RodGallowGlass | :) |
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| 20:50.58 | RodGallowGlass | shall i do a cvs update :P |
| 20:51.40 | ``Erik | if you want... that last commit was the assert.h fix... it built through on my fbsd box *shrug* :) |
| 20:51.58 | ``Erik | and I grepped the dir for other uses of assert() without assert.h |
| 20:52.20 | RodGallowGlass | good job, faled to do that herfe, but then i rely on my compiler. |
| 20:52.25 | RodGallowGlass | failed too |
| 20:53.58 | ``Erik | can't always trust the compiler to be as mean as it should be *shrug* :) |
| 20:54.02 | RodGallowGlass | heh not all gcc's are created equeally |
| 20:54.20 | RodGallowGlass | --mean-mode, i wonder... |
| 20:55.01 | ``Erik | ../../configure --enable-beat-me-whip-me-make-it-hurt=yes |
| 20:55.04 | ``Erik | *cough* O:-) |
| 20:55.09 | RodGallowGlass | :) |
| 20:56.29 | ``Erik | unfortunately, the cc test autoconf uses fails if you have CFLAGS="-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic" :/ |
| 20:58.44 | *** part/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.198) | |
| 21:14.44 | RodGallowGlass | if that ones female, you can offer "service" (running away really really fast) :) |
| 21:16.33 | RodGallowGlass | so use -Wl,beat-me-with-reporting-every-possible-condition |
| 21:16.43 | RodGallowGlass | :) |
| 21:16.59 | RodGallowGlass | gotta go mow the lawn. |
| 21:18.14 | ``Erik | later |
| 21:37.43 | yukonbob | can anybody give me some direction to finding out what "cut direction" means in the dsp primitive? |
| 21:39.28 | brlcad | if you see "cadguy" join, he can tell you ALL about cut directions and all the nitty gritty details of the dsp |
| 21:39.46 | brlcad | (he implemented it) |
| 21:40.00 | yukonbob | sounds good ;) |
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| 21:40.45 | yukonbob | I'm _not_ being impatiant, but have you patched that looping-malloc issue with DSPs? |
| 21:40.57 | yukonbob | *impatient |
| 22:49.26 | brlcad | yukonbob: no, not yet :( |
| 22:52.01 | brlcad | totally distracted yesterday and today with a task |
| 22:53.00 | brlcad | the "cut" parameter for dsps is basically telling the ray-tracer what to do between the different cell values |
| 22:53.29 | brlcad | the default is "ad" for adaptive, which means it'll make a smooth surface, interpolating between the values |
| 22:55.01 | brlcad | one of the others is no interpolation, so you see a lot of flat surfaces for each cell |
| 22:55.06 | brlcad | and I forget what the third one does |
| 22:55.13 | brlcad | so it wasn't that important ;) |
| 23:09.14 | *** join/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150) | |
| 23:10.19 | producemench | does anyone mind helping a newbie configure brl-cad? |
| 23:11.00 | producemench | I was on yesterday, but I didn't know irc very well. sorry if I annoyed anyone. |
| 23:11.10 | brlcad | ./configure --enable-optimized --disable-adrt --disable-jove --prefix=/usr/brlcad && make && sudo make install ;) |
| 23:11.37 | producemench | thanks a bazillion :)))) |
| 23:11.40 | producemench | ciao |
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| 02:18.01 | producemench | I ran "./configure --enable-optimized --disable-adrt --disable-jove --prefix=/usr/brlcad && make && sudo make install" and the process ran for like an hour. I just started over. Should it take that long? |
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| 02:27.26 | producemench | The newbie's back with another question ;) |
| 02:27.34 | producemench | anybody game? |
| 02:29.14 | producemench | alrighty then. I'll bug another room. ciao all. |
| 02:29.50 | *** part/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150) | |
| 03:20.25 | brlcad | must be a slow computer |
| 03:24.56 | RodGallowGlass | computers all wait at the same speed :) |
| 03:25.15 | RodGallowGlass | 18.2 times per second :) |
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| 12:20.08 | thing0 | hey all |
| 12:31.35 | akreal | hello thing0 |
| 12:32.14 | thing0 | hey akreal |
| 12:32.21 | thing0 | have you got a 47? |
| 12:32.41 | akreal | what? ) |
| 12:34.24 | thing0 | akreal |
| 12:34.26 | thing0 | ak47 |
| 12:34.28 | thing0 | sorry |
| 12:34.33 | thing0 | bit of a joke |
| 12:34.37 | akreal | hah )) |
| 12:34.42 | thing0 | not funny |
| 12:35.01 | thing0 | yeah.... |
| 12:35.08 | thing0 | brain fried |
| 12:35.15 | akreal | when i'm in local network i call myself just ak so everybody joke about ak47 )) |
| 12:36.32 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 12:36.40 | thing0 | I was also thingk |
| 12:38.20 | thing0 | ahh well |
| 12:38.27 | thing0 | so what's up akreal |
| 12:38.33 | thing0 | doing anything interesting |
| 12:38.37 | thing0 | BRLCAD related maybe? |
| 12:40.47 | akreal | no,not yet... just a perl coder... |
| 12:41.18 | akreal | but i'm a CAD student and hope to join to BRLCAD development ) |
| 12:42.02 | akreal | now i'm fighting with building and running BRLCAD.. |
| 12:43.54 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 12:43.57 | thing0 | your a CAD student? |
| 12:44.00 | thing0 | in what way? |
| 12:45.44 | thing0 | are you studying CAD? |
| 12:46.13 | thing0 | like Autodesk Inventor or Solidworks, CATIA, NX, Solidedge, Pro/Engineer, AutoCAD ? |
| 12:47.10 | akreal | yes, i study CAD development at univercity, and we exploring such CADs as SolidEdge, NX, AutoCAD.. |
| 12:47.42 | akreal | did you hear about COMPAS ? |
| 12:48.03 | akreal | it's very popular in russia |
| 12:49.01 | thing0 | no |
| 12:49.05 | thing0 | I haven't |
| 12:49.06 | thing0 | hmm |
| 12:49.42 | thing0 | is that the correct spelling? |
| 12:49.51 | thing0 | can you give me a link? |
| 12:50.33 | akreal | a second.. i'll try to find smth english ) |
| 12:51.16 | akreal | http://www.ascon.ru/english/ |
| 12:51.27 | akreal | and yes correct spelling is KOMPAS |
| 12:51.38 | thing0 | ah ok |
| 12:55.08 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 12:55.13 | thing0 | you know pro engineer |
| 12:55.17 | thing0 | started by a russian |
| 12:55.18 | thing0 | ? |
| 12:55.21 | thing0 | :) |
| 12:55.26 | thing0 | russian's thought he was nuts |
| 12:58.09 | akreal | i heared about it but never used... and never heared that it was started by russian.. |
| 12:58.25 | akreal | when did it start? |
| 12:58.29 | thing0 | so he went to USA80s |
| 12:58.32 | thing0 | sorry |
| 12:58.33 | thing0 | 80s |
| 12:58.41 | thing0 | if i recall correctly |
| 13:00.07 | akreal | interesting story :) |
| 13:00.09 | thing0 | just google it |
| 13:00.12 | thing0 | umm |
| 13:00.18 | thing0 | i think catalyst wrote about it |
| 13:00.23 | thing0 | or just wiki |
| 13:13.34 | thing0 | KOMPAS-3D looks cool |
| 13:14.37 | Laniakea | KOMPAS looks like a commercial solution |
| 13:14.59 | Laniakea | The fact that it's commercial seems a bit inept in comparison to what BRL-CAD can do for free. |
| 13:16.04 | thing0 | Laniakea: I was basing it off other commerical CAD |
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| 13:24.26 | akreal | i have the book by guy who wrote "math core" of KOMPAS, so maybe it's possible to implement some things in BRL-CAD... |
| 13:36.32 | thing0 | cool |
| 13:36.33 | thing0 | bbs |
| 13:36.38 | thing0 | broadband is back |
| 13:36.42 | thing0 | gotta switch over |
| 13:36.43 | thing0 | ttyl |
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| 15:55.49 | thing0 | hey |
| 15:55.52 | thing0 | i'm back |
| 15:56.38 | ``Erik | darn |
| 15:56.41 | ``Erik | I mean |
| 15:56.41 | ``Erik | hi |
| 15:56.59 | thing0 | nice erick |
| 15:57.03 | thing0 | real smooth |
| 15:57.13 | thing0 | just got slightly jipped |
| 15:57.24 | thing0 | ordered a router/modem |
| 15:57.28 | thing0 | just got a modem.... |
| 15:57.31 | thing0 | I mean |
| 15:57.36 | thing0 | just a router |
| 15:57.42 | thing0 | so I have no dsl modem |
| 15:57.45 | thing0 | I was PISSED |
| 15:57.56 | thing0 | hehe |
| 15:58.03 | thing0 | no back to backup dial up |
| 15:59.12 | thing0 | *knlow |
| 15:59.16 | thing0 | *know |
| 15:59.16 | ``Erik | <-- went the wawy of cable as soon as it became available O.o *shrug* |
| 16:00.46 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:00.52 | ``Erik | "now" maybe? :) |
| 16:00.56 | thing0 | LOL |
| 16:00.58 | thing0 | yeah |
| 16:01.00 | thing0 | u can see |
| 16:01.04 | thing0 | how annoyed I am |
| 16:01.05 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:01.12 | ``Erik | I would've said "special" |
| 16:01.13 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 16:01.45 | ``Erik | with half my day blown on mandatory training, it seems like a waste to do any real work :/ |
| 16:02.54 | thing0 | nice |
| 16:02.56 | thing0 | well |
| 16:03.01 | thing0 | I attended a meeting today |
| 16:03.03 | thing0 | and found out |
| 16:03.12 | thing0 | half the assumptions that were made |
| 16:03.19 | thing0 | were for a different segment |
| 16:03.25 | thing0 | so I am back to square one |
| 16:03.27 | thing0 | with a week left |
| 16:03.35 | thing0 | I am PISSED |
| 16:03.36 | thing0 | i mean |
| 16:03.39 | thing0 | I feel special |
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| 16:12.23 | thing0 | alrighty |
| 16:12.27 | thing0 | i am sleeping now |
| 16:12.28 | thing0 | ttyl |
| 16:12.38 | thing0 | cya ``Erik |
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| 18:45.20 | brlcad | l/sb goto -50 |
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| 19:32.41 | RodGallowGlass | ``Erik? all that wall-candy I have up, nuke it you think? |
| 19:42.15 | RodGallowGlass | your choice, let me know ok? |
| 19:43.14 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 19:43.40 | RodGallowGlass | worried about what kind of flies stick to that flypaper :) |
| 19:43.55 | ``Erik | o.O |
| 19:45.25 | RodGallowGlass | good ;) |
| 19:45.25 | ``Erik | um, ok |
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| 03:07.35 | RodGallowGlass | whipped by the "code o nine tails" geeeeez :) |
| 03:27.29 | RodGallowGlass | Does code have a code of conduct :) |
| 03:27.44 | RodGallowGlass | rambling again, time for my medication :) |
| 03:49.27 | RodGallowGlass | :) |
| 05:30.41 | poolio | evening :) |
| 05:34.43 | brlcad | howdy howdy |
| 05:42.56 | poolio | hey brlcad, out of curiousity, what's the point in doing voxel -> CSG? Just to work with the data and store it more efficiently? |
| 05:43.29 | brlcad | that's one of the major points |
| 05:43.45 | poolio | so somewhat a means of data compression? |
| 05:43.47 | brlcad | to actually have a model with structure instead of entirely unstructured data |
| 05:44.04 | brlcad | with regional coherence |
| 05:44.24 | brlcad | connectivity of "cells" to shapes |
| 05:44.42 | brlcad | basically it's a method of shape extraction, which has all sorts of uses |
| 05:44.51 | poolio | yeah, but I couldn't think of any good uses besides that. I only bring this up because the question was posed to me :) |
| 05:45.11 | brlcad | data compression is just one of the benefit, but not necessarily a primary purpose in itself (though a very major benefit in most cases) |
| 05:46.40 | brlcad | think of medical data, for example -- I might have a CT scan, which is intrinsicly viewable as voxel data -- there's no knowledge about regions and materials other than bands of intensity values |
| 05:47.12 | poolio | Well yes, but lets say you have "regions" would that just help in terms of extracting and individually looking at different regions? |
| 05:47.32 | brlcad | if you can extract structure, you've basically done shape detection, potentially even feature detection, which is one step towards solving segmentation and registration |
| 05:47.43 | brlcad | being able to identify a "heart" for example |
| 05:48.21 | poolio | Alright, so once you have the basic shapes it's much easier to further analyze |
| 05:48.45 | poolio | and why would the military want this type of ability? |
| 05:48.47 | brlcad | much easier -- and in practice, you don't want to work on the voxelized data directly for several reasons |
| 05:49.16 | brlcad | you can get analytic artifacts from the 3d aliasing, the nature of the cell shape |
| 05:49.35 | brlcad | so actually inferring a real "surface" can help |
| 05:49.48 | poolio | okay, that makes a bit of sense |
| 05:49.53 | brlcad | basically interpolates and fits an implicit function to explicit data values |
| 05:50.34 | poolio | so theoretically the CSG model good more accurately reflect the physical situation than the voxel data that the CSG was generate from |
| 05:51.04 | brlcad | it's more of a fundamental capability than it is a "military purpose", especially at this point -- there's not much purpose other than the geometric points I just mentioned |
| 05:51.37 | brlcad | once it's working and if validated, then you can start looking at other analytic purposes, whether they be military-related, medical, consumer, etc |
| 05:51.58 | brlcad | the predominant domain of voxel data is actually the medical industry |
| 05:52.21 | poolio | Yeah, I don't know anything off the top of my head besides MRIs that generate that type of data |
| 05:53.01 | brlcad | them and a subset of finite element analyses (which cuts across various industries) |
| 05:53.01 | brlcad | MRI and CT scans are the big ones |
| 05:53.01 | poolio | yeah cool |
| 05:53.19 | brlcad | still, though -- that's "way" off in the distance |
| 05:53.35 | brlcad | just matching a voxelized sphere to a sphere is research material in itself :) |
| 05:53.38 | poolio | well yes, I was just curious. I like to see the big picture :) |
| 05:53.54 | brlcad | (publishable research material) |
| 05:54.16 | poolio | so would you like me to try to have this project proposal for you before I start work? |
| 05:56.25 | brlcad | well certainly before coding |
| 05:56.35 | brlcad | so yeah :) |
| 05:58.02 | brlcad | nothing too insanely detailed.. whatever you're comfortable with |
| 05:59.07 | poolio | Yeah, I had some thoughts on mutation as I was riding the subway to work today :P |
| 05:59.07 | brlcad | your fellow occupants were that ugly, eh? |
| 06:00.40 | poolio | har har. no one talks on the subway and i was, as always, seeing shapes with my eyes 8) |
| 06:04.50 | poolio | Anywho, I was trying to decide what I wanted to have crossover...whole shapes, operators, position vectors of shapes, coordinates of position vectors of shapes, etc... |
| 06:11.32 | brlcad | if you think of a CSG hierarchy (which is usually a directed graph) .. crossover is rather easily defined as picking a node in both trees and swapping them |
| 06:12.52 | poolio | well is the node a shape? |
| 06:12.55 | brlcad | so something like: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Csg_tree.png/677px-Csg_tree.png |
| 06:13.15 | brlcad | pick one of the nodes.. pick another in the other genotype -- swap them |
| 06:14.38 | brlcad | more of a data-driven diagram -- the nodes are either operators or primitives, http://designer.mech.yzu.edu.tw/article/articles/course/(2000-11-27)%20Constructive%20solid%20geometry.files/image073.gif |
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| 06:15.35 | brlcad | and you can have a matrix over any node that represents a transformation (translation, scaling, rotation, orientation, position, etc) |
| 06:16.37 | brlcad | random mutation could be as simple as randomly picking an operator node, and randomly changing the operator (e.g. from union to intersection) |
| 06:28.57 | poolio | yeah. but eg the first diagram, you can only pick leaf nodes or operators, you couldn't say pick a shape that's a union of two other shapes and swap that |
| 06:29.17 | poolio | Well you could, but it'd change the genotype length |
| 06:29.37 | poolio | but then you get into crossing over of complex shapes, which I'm not so sure is a good idea |
| 07:01.01 | brlcad | there's nothing wrong with changing the genotype length |
| 07:01.17 | brlcad | they're going to be various lengths regardless (or at least they can be) |
| 07:01.27 | brlcad | s/can/should/ |
| 07:02.08 | brlcad | that's what I'd mentioned the first stage would be simply single-node hierarchies -- primitives only |
| 07:02.28 | brlcad | if you get even that working, it'll be astounding |
| 07:04.22 | brlcad | I suppose you could always work with balanced graphs such that you're always swapping the same number of nodes in order to maintain fixed lengths, but that's actually just more work for what I don't see as gaining you much of anything but an artificial constraint on the genotype evolution |
| 07:05.10 | brlcad | your fitness function and evolutionary passes can have criteria to bound how complex the shapes get, how many nodes, too |
| 07:09.40 | poolio | Alright. My main issue is I don't really see how crossing higher-level shapes will improve the evolution. I mean, I see how it could, but I feel like it should be able to evolve thos ehigher level shapes on its own |
| 07:12.22 | poolio | anywho, i'm of for the night. i have to be at work in 4 hours. eek. gnite |
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| 07:40.42 | brlcad | hm, not sure what you mean by "higher level shapes" .. they're just shapes at any point in the tree -- portions of the tree could do exceptionally well or poorly, which will sort itself out through the evolution steps |
| 07:41.29 | brlcad | such that over time trees have more and more "good" nodes that fit the function and fewer that don't |
| 07:43.09 | brlcad | basically saying "take some of the objects I used over here and try them over here" .. if it's got a good fitness, it'll survive -- if not, it'll die |
| 07:43.22 | poolio | well yeah... |
| 07:43.37 | poolio | by higher level shapes I mean higher up in the hierarchy, composed of more primitives |
| 07:44.32 | poolio | wel anywho. sleep. cya later |
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| 10:34.35 | thing0 | hey all |
| 10:34.36 | thing0 | sup? |
| 11:23.45 | thing0 | cya later people |
| 11:23.48 | thing0 | going out |
| 11:23.50 | thing0 | bye! |
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| 04:05.12 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 04:33.32 | producemench | Hello Again, I finally got it running. example: "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin" goes into a hidden file, in the user's home directory, called "bashrc". Thanks again for all your help. :) |
| 04:33.51 | producemench | bye |
| 04:33.55 | *** part/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150) | |
| 04:43.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/552201 <---- this is the kind of stuff that gives me heartburn, is there no tcl standard you can use? |
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| 12:41.10 | Laniakea | tarzeau: hi |
| 12:41.54 | tarzeau | hi Laniakea |
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| 14:52.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:53.02 | ``Erik | "have 8.5a6, need 8.4-8.5"... that's funny... I'm under the impression that 8.5+ is mandatory, and whatever does that check is a bit stupid in matching :) |
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| 18:46.06 | IriX64 | ``Erik, sorry should have told you thats an 7.8.4 run :) |
| 18:46.29 | IriX64 | I installed tcl8.5a6 when 7.10 came out |
| 18:49.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/553465 |
| 18:49.29 | IriX64 | thats what Im currently fighting with 7.10 |
| 18:50.15 | IriX64 | who the heck wrote bomb.c :) |
| 18:52.02 | IriX64 | lgt/error.c duplicates it somehow |
| 18:52.42 | IriX64 | mc |
| 18:53.48 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-230-231.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:55.50 | IriX64 | I'm outta my league here ``Erik, which one do i change? |
| 18:59.20 | IriX64 | if i change the one in lgt, how much do i break? |
| 18:59.28 | IriX64 | lets try it what hey. |
| 19:00.57 | IriX64 | heh nothing broke so far :) |
| 19:02.03 | IriX64 | you have adventureous people working on this iss ;) |
| 19:02.10 | IriX64 | i see too |
| 19:10.15 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/553508 |
| 19:10.25 | IriX64 | think i'll just stop for now. |
| 19:11.40 | IriX64 | mc |
| 19:13.35 | IriX64 | somethings wrong on my end me thinks, thanks guys |
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| 23:08.27 | IriX64 | ahh well, thanks to you guys for something to pass the time with :) |
| 23:10.35 | IriX64 | still haven't found where that cute little tcl check lives ``Erik ;) |
| 00:56.59 | IriX64 | did anybody try irssi.zip from hobbes? |
| 00:59.04 | IriX64 | I'm torn between this and Mirc. |
| 01:00.13 | IriX64 | what i really miss about mirc is the ability to double click on a url and be there instantly, no cutting or pasting. |
| 02:19.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/554246 <--- finally installation time |
| 02:22.51 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/554250 <---- love it when a plan comes together ollie, I know stan |
| 02:25.36 | IriX64 | well lets see what trouble I can stir up in brlcad land :) |
| 02:31.25 | IriX64 | people ask me, why don't you let the gcc people know about this? answer, they laugh at cygwin. |
| 02:45.44 | IriX64 | l8r |
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| 13:04.39 | thing1 | hey all |
| 13:04.41 | thing1 | sup? |
| 13:04.43 | thing1 | LOL |
| 13:04.57 | thing0 | somehow my name incremented |
| 13:05.00 | thing0 | WTF ;) |
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| 18:05.11 | ``Erik | thing++ |
| 18:05.16 | ``Erik | or |
| 18:05.18 | ``Erik | ++thing? |
| 18:07.44 | IriX64 | bwahh, 7.8.8 is installing |
| 18:10.52 | IriX64 | lets see if it passes the "required version" of tcl this time, it should i used its own :) |
| 18:18.02 | IriX64 | just where is this required version of tcl anyway, I didn't look very hard. |
| 18:18.11 | IriX64 | check i mean |
| 18:30.10 | IriX64 | what would be a quick and dirty test of bash support that i can try in the brlcad dir? |
| 18:30.39 | IriX64 | would exec bash.exe work? |
| 18:32.54 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/556691 <--- heheh it did |
| 18:43.56 | IriX64 | whatever you do don't do an exec bash :( |
| 19:08.37 | IriX64 | shouldn't have started a photon map with a compile going |
| 19:11.52 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/556785 <--- where i am into it |
| 19:12.58 | IriX64 | why does it put it at the bottom of the paste window? |
| 19:56.25 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos pix 1 & 2 |
| 20:12.38 | IriX64 | same url, overlap tool and object editor |
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| 05:42.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: |
| 05:42.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: remove the disable the call to Tcl_DeleteInterp for release since there seems to |
| 05:42.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: be some reference counting issues in a6, remvoe the bu_semaphore_release call |
| 05:42.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: too as release pairs with acquire, not with init (there is presently no free |
| 05:42.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: routine that pairs with init) |
| 07:08.10 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:22.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: all the docs should now be in the docs section, pix-png output was fixed to check for console output |
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| 15:05.45 | thing0 | hey there |
| 15:06.59 | akreal | hello thing0! |
| 15:07.08 | thing0 | hey akreal |
| 15:07.10 | thing0 | sup? |
| 15:07.21 | akreal | what does it mean? |
| 15:07.35 | akreal | sorry i'm kinda newbie :) |
| 15:09.45 | thing0 | lol |
| 15:09.53 | thing0 | sup = what is up = how are you |
| 15:09.54 | thing0 | :P |
| 15:11.46 | akreal | ah! nice, thx ) finally ran mged... looking for what to do next |
| 15:12.01 | akreal | and u? |
| 15:12.11 | thing0 | just fried from work |
| 15:12.17 | thing0 | got a review on wednesday |
| 15:12.25 | thing0 | tomorrow is going to be a nightmare |
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| 15:31.07 | thing0 | me sleep now |
| 15:31.08 | thing0 | bye! |
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| 16:21.04 | ertugerata | salut |
| 16:21.12 | Chocobo | I dont know where else to ask this: Does anyone know of a CAAD program for linux? brl-cad seems awesome, but not really aimed towards floor-plans and architecture. |
| 16:21.16 | Chocobo | Hi :) |
| 16:22.41 | ertugerata | ı need just deps for brlcad |
| 16:22.46 | ertugerata | i need just deps for brlcad |
| 16:25.47 | ertugerata | http://brlcad.org/overview.html,i compile on source |
| 16:44.41 | brlcad | ertugerata: see the INSTALL file in the source distribution |
| 16:45.15 | ertugerata | thanks ; url for deps not found |
| 16:45.18 | brlcad | there are no required dependencies other than a compiler and probably a command shell that brl-cad does not directly provide or auto-detect |
| 16:45.28 | brlcad | what url for deps? |
| 16:45.43 | brlcad | there is no url for deps, read the INSTALL file :) |
| 16:46.08 | brlcad | though I suppose I could give you a url to the INSTALL file, if that much isn't clear ;) |
| 16:46.09 | ertugerata | libbu,libdm, needed ? |
| 16:46.17 | brlcad | those are brl-cad libraries |
| 16:46.47 | brlcad | what are you trying to do? |
| 16:47.26 | brlcad | Chocobo: alas, brl-cad and qcad are about as close as it gets in terms of open-source software for caad |
| 16:47.50 | brlcad | which of course isn't saying much :) .. patches and developers to work those areas are, of course, more than welcome |
| 16:48.34 | brlcad | brl-cad has more of the foundations for caad that just about everything else out there, just sans gui |
| 16:48.39 | jack- | yup |
| 16:48.48 | jack- | its a pretty complete system :) |
| 16:48.55 | jack- | and 100% open source |
| 16:48.55 | brlcad | mind you, i'm specifically referring to open source -- if you want commercial, there are some options but those aren't my concern ;) |
| 16:56.46 | *** join/#brlcad obsoleteman (n=obso@unaffiliated/obsoleteman) | |
| 16:57.00 | obsoleteman | hi all |
| 16:57.48 | brlcad | howdy |
| 16:59.32 | obsoleteman | anyone knows, it needs BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries when i build brlcad from source? |
| 17:01.37 | Chocobo | thanks brlcad, maybe I will give it a shot :) |
| 17:02.02 | brlcad | obsoleteman: you mean run-time debugging? |
| 17:02.28 | Chocobo | Yeah, most of the non open source applications seem to be german.... I can't even read their websites :) |
| 17:02.29 | obsoleteman | brlcad: no "i mean Are BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries needed only to run programme, not build time dependency?" |
| 17:03.56 | brlcad | obsoleteman: I guess that depends on what do you mean by "BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries"? BRL-CAD includes about a dozen libraries that will be compiled and installed and by default, those libraries will need to be installed for the apps to work just like anything else |
| 17:04.55 | brlcad | if you disable shared library builds, then everything will link static and there should be no runtime dependencies, but then you're compilation and install are going to be truely *massive* in terms of disk usage |
| 17:07.00 | brlcad | Chocobo: fantastisch :) |
| 17:07.06 | obsoleteman | brlcad: ok. understand that. i mean BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries in sourceforge home page. but they seem for only win32. no problem. thanks |
| 17:07.08 | obsoleteman | :) |
| 17:07.22 | brlcad | ooooh, THOSE run-time libraries |
| 17:07.47 | brlcad | yeah, ignore those even if you're on windows unless you're developing brl-cad applications ;) |
| 17:07.49 | obsoleteman | :) |
| 17:07.59 | Chocobo | maybe I will just use graph paper. |
| 17:08.24 | brlcad | that's basically just a library-only release (which so far has only been done for windows) .. as there are many developer-users of brl-cad that use our libraries but not our tools |
| 17:08.33 | brlcad | folks using brl-cad as a ray-tracing engine or a geometry engine |
| 17:10.02 | obsoleteman | brlcad: thanks again for information and good application. we are going to package brlcad for Pardus then :) |
| 17:11.17 | obsoleteman | brlcad: our packager ertugerata in this chanell |
| 17:12.23 | obsoleteman | may be we will speak abot packaging soon |
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| 17:19.39 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/559130 <--- left it compiling last night, woke up to this, last update from cvs around 11:00pm eastern |
| 17:20.27 | IriX64 | updating again, hoping its fixed :) |
| 17:21.41 | IriX64 | thought i took that random number generator outts the compiler ;) |
| 17:21.49 | IriX64 | outta too |
| 17:23.45 | IriX64 | i'm told to report the symptom, it doesn't compile man. |
| 17:24.14 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 17:31.23 | IriX64 | man theres no reference to those inflate functions it's calling not even an extern definition. |
| 17:32.44 | IriX64 | same for deflate |
| 17:33.27 | IriX64 | not gonna fight with it (I am a man of peace :)) going back to 7.8.8 for now. |
| 17:33.49 | *** part/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.227.92.205) | |
| 17:43.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: improve documentation, include the OPTIONS and command in the synopsis as well as a whole new section with some examples. initial revision was in 1988. |
| 17:45.28 | brlcad | IriX64: you're missing -lz from your link line for some reason |
| 17:45.41 | brlcad | it needs libz aka zlib |
| 17:45.56 | IriX64 | its supposed to be building zlib no? |
| 17:46.06 | brlcad | depends entirely on what you tell it to do |
| 17:46.15 | IriX64 | enable everythibg |
| 17:46.18 | IriX64 | thing |
| 17:46.40 | IriX64 | let me reconfigure. |
| 17:47.57 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 17:50.05 | IriX64 | you know your code well. |
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| 19:15.40 | obsoleteman | brlcad: hi again, brlcad compiles succesfully bur tehere is no *.desktop file for menu entry. how we start the application using commandline? which command ? |
| 19:26.55 | brlcad | obsoleteman: if you'd be willing to create/provide a .desktop file, I'd be glad to add it |
| 19:27.11 | brlcad | otherwise, there are many possible starting points -- brl-cad is a suite of tools |
| 19:27.37 | brlcad | mged is where many folks start, which has a fair set of documentation on the website at http://brlcad.org |
| 19:29.34 | obsoleteman | brlcad: why not, we ll provide some *.dektop file. (for mged maybe more) |
| 19:34.14 | brlcad | mged, archer, and rtwizard are probably the only three double-clickable apps of interest until there's a brl-cad command shell |
| 19:34.33 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt247-240.northwestel.net) | |
| 19:35.14 | obsoleteman | ok brlcad we re preparing mged, archer, and rtwizard desktop files. |
| 19:36.33 | brlcad | awesome |
| 19:39.04 | yukonbob | afternoon folks |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: jason feels it's probably best to make mods to openNURBS itself now in order to |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fully integrate/complete the brep implementation and given his implementation |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: uses libbu and libbn extensively, this move will make openNURBS similarly |
| 19:47.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: dependent. thus, the intent is to then to effectively fork openNURBS and make |
| 19:47.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: it a noinst brl-cad sub-library (either in librt or up a level) for obtaining |
| 19:47.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: brep support. |
| 20:03.59 | *** part/#brlcad obsoleteman (n=obso@unaffiliated/obsoleteman) | |
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| 21:21.45 | cadguy | Yowza. That's a serious decision |
| 21:34.16 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487763E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:36.51 | yukonbob | cadguy: hey -- I was chatting w/ brlcad about dsp and "cut direction"... he said you coded it and could explain what that's about? |
| 21:37.10 | yukonbob | ad vs lR vs Lr |
| 22:53.13 | yukonbob | hrm |
| 22:59.00 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:59.22 | brlcad | he looks at irc about once a day at best (if even that) .. just have to happen to catch him |
| 22:59.26 | yukonbob | :) how's it going brlcad? |
| 22:59.58 | brlcad | pretty good, how're things over in the yukon? :) |
| 23:00.28 | yukonbob | not so bad... had a good w/e (http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/) |
| 23:02.12 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:16.15 | yukonbob | brlcad: ?did you see my note re: that malloc issue |
| 23:34.58 | ``Erik | whichwhathuhnowwhat? |
| 23:36.23 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/559961 |
| 00:17.03 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos 1st pix, results of that photon map |
| 00:18.21 | IriX64 | thats with importance mapping,use irradiance hypersampling cache, and visualize irradiance cache selected |
| 00:19.50 | IriX64 | Where do I put the light Twingy :) |
| 00:21.48 | Twingy | inside a box |
| 00:22.11 | IriX64 | have to wire up a switch...just a sec |
| 00:22.15 | Twingy | I've already told you this on 3 separate occaisons over the last 6 months |
| 00:22.32 | Twingy | so I am going to ignore you if you ask me again |
| 00:22.54 | IriX64 | I do not know how to set matrials to light source, I am *not a brlcad user |
| 00:22.59 | IriX64 | materials too |
| 00:23.06 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:23.19 | IriX64 | i don't mind being ignored :) |
| 00:24.32 | IriX64 | you notice, I'm always working with *your example geometry?, Heck I even screwed up the mug exercise |
| 00:26.03 | Twingy | I don't get it |
| 00:26.11 | Twingy | you spend all this time in here talking and compiling the program |
| 00:26.25 | Twingy | and you complain about all these things, and you don't even know the most fundamental thing about how to use the program |
| 00:26.31 | Twingy | if I were the channel moderator here I'd ban you |
| 00:27.02 | IriX64 | i rarely complain |
| 00:27.02 | Twingy | you are lucky sean is a nice guy |
| 00:27.11 | Twingy | my tolerance is much less than his |
| 00:27.57 | IriX64 | on that note i'll delve into the innards of 7-10 again :) |
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| 00:33.05 | yukonbob | cadguy: hey -- I was chatting w/ brlcad about dsp and "cut direction"... he said you coded it and could explain what that's about? |
| 00:33.15 | yukonbob | ie: ad vs. lR vs. Lr |
| 00:44.39 | cadguy | Yes. You can choose to always cut each cell top from ll to UR or UL to lr or in the direction of most curvature |
| 00:45.19 | cadguy | ad says cut along direction of greatest curvature. This makes things like hilltops look more natural, rather than having saw-toothed tops |
| 00:46.03 | cadguy | So, lR is lower left to Upper Right, Lr is Upper Left to lower right, and ad is "adaptive" |
| 00:47.49 | yukonbob | cadguy: OK... I'm not clear on what "cut" means, though. |
| 00:51.07 | cadguy | Ah. In a dsp each "cell" has 4 corners on top. If the 4 points aren't all co-planar, you have to "cut" it into two triangles |
| 00:51.50 | cadguy | Consider the following DSP data as a 2x2 DSP grid: 1 1 1 2 |
| 00:52.11 | cadguy | The "2" elevation is not co-planar with the other points |
| 00:52.25 | cadguy | No plane includes all 4 points |
| 00:52.36 | cadguy | So you have to "facetize" the top of the DSP cell |
| 00:52.56 | cadguy | The code does this for you by "cutting the top" |
| 00:54.43 | cadguy | If you picked lR for the above example, it would cut from a 1 to a 1 |
| 00:54.56 | cadguy | If you picked Lr it would cut from a 1 to a 2 |
| 00:55.43 | cadguy | If the grid were larger, selecting "ad" would cause the code to cut in the direction that preserved curvature. We used to have an example laying around. |
| 00:59.41 | yukonbob | I'm not 100% clear what you're saying, but perhaps playing will help me figure it out... If I generate my own 10x10 say, will I be able to see the effects by playing with 1s and 2s? |
| 01:00.01 | yukonbob | ie: 1-unit and 2-unit elevations. |
| 01:00.45 | cadguy | yes. You should be able to see it. |
| 01:01.01 | cadguy | I'll see if I can come up with a good example |
| 01:04.49 | IriX64 | err Twingy, if you guys would rather that dedication to Mr. Muss weren't there I'll honor your wishes. |
| 01:05.19 | Twingy | don't ask me! |
| 01:05.34 | IriX64 | you too have a vote :) |
| 01:05.42 | Twingy | I rescind my vote! |
| 01:06.04 | IriX64 | leaves the rest of the jury in this Kangaroo court then :) |
| 01:07.23 | IriX64 | What I'm gently trying to say is would his family mind do you think? |
| 01:07.57 | Twingy | you are talking to the wrong guy |
| 01:08.05 | cadguy | Where will the dedication go? |
| 01:08.15 | cadguy | I know them well |
| 01:08.53 | IriX64 | It's on the help button, dedication |
| 01:09.18 | cadguy | no offense would be taken |
| 01:09.21 | IriX64 | its part of what i sent for examination |
| 01:12.11 | IriX64 | windowsside albumn, bldg391 photonmapped |
| 01:12.37 | IriX64 | thankyou cadguy |
| 01:12.54 | cadguy | ok. |
| 01:26.25 | IriX64 | my only gripe with these other x-servers for windows is that you have to open a frame buffer to ray trace or photonmap into. |
| 01:28.03 | IriX64 | if they'd open the port O_SHARE | O_DENY_NONE | O_READ | O_WRITE i'm sure that probelm would go away. |
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| 01:40.17 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos Havoc |
| 01:40.36 | IriX64 | ill shut up now and go back to work :) |
| 01:43.18 | IriX64 | you wonder why I play with 7.8.8? Get it working there and transplant it to 7.10 when i get my build issues resolved. |
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| 02:14.05 | brlcad | yukonbob: yes I saw it an alas i've still not had time to dig deep just yet, hopefully after tomorrow afternoon :/ |
| 02:35.41 | IriX64 | you hardcoded the darn usr/brlcad prefix into tcl/tk???????? |
| 02:44.09 | IriX64 | go figure i reran it and its proper. |
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| 03:16.55 | yukonbob | brlcad: np -- I'm interested in a fix, but I don't know your workload... Looking forward to it when you get the time to attack :) |
| 06:16.58 | yukonbob | . |
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| 09:38.32 | ertugerata | hi |
| 09:39.29 | ertugerata | my problem with archer and rtwizard |
| 09:42.37 | ertugerata | http://rafb.net/p/qujjRC23.html |
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| 17:04.11 | IriX64 | somebody fed my gremlin after midnight :) |
| 17:25.25 | IriX64 | dunno if you want this but i noticed same thing in 7.10 too http://www.pastebin.ca/562002 |
| 17:34.48 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/562022 <--- this one too |
| 17:35.11 | IriX64 | ill stop now because you said warnings were no concern |
| 17:42.21 | IriX64 | the problems, in tk, i compiled against a system tk8.5a6 with brlcad-7.8.4 bwish blows up! |
| 17:51.52 | IriX64 | probably tied to tk_mainloop not being found in ac_checklib tk... |
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| 18:46.54 | IriX64 | point proven, it's making fine with the included tcl/tk 8.4 |
| 18:50.17 | IriX64 | well i've got brlcad built, I can safely wipe out Cygwin now :P |
| 18:55.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (8 files): Add implemention of and support for NumIntersectionsWith(ON_Line)... all in support for trimming curve tests |
| 18:57.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Change brep_pt_trimmed to use NumIntersectionsWith() method in openNURBS. will make the unfinished brep_count_intersections() function obsolete... |
| 18:59.19 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/562263 <---if you need proof it builds with tcl8.4. |
| 19:01.37 | IriX64 | btw this configure too does not see Tk_MainLoop in tk8.5a5 or tk8.5a5 |
| 19:01.47 | IriX64 | err a6 |
| 19:07.24 | IriX64 | you wonder how then did i get it to compile against tk8.5? I simply put the libs in and set the path to libtk, it found it. |
| 19:07.57 | IriX64 | not trying to snow you here simply trying to help. |
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| 19:21.54 | IriX64 | slowest startup of mged i've ever seen :) |
| 19:25.13 | IriX64 | renamed the cygwin directory to cassie and this thing is running truly standalone``Erik. |
| 19:25.27 | IriX64 | broke cygwinx tho :) |
| 19:26.39 | IriX64 | using Xwin32 in demo mode dunno if it'll have time to photonmap |
| 19:32.34 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside albumn what it did out of the box. |
| 19:35.13 | IriX64 | same url and albumn, photonmap outta the box |
| 19:36.14 | IriX64 | maybe i better buy this xwin32, it's pretty decent |
| 19:39.54 | IriX64 | gotta go i've got to prune the design shots outta the blogs:) |
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| 13:02.01 | thing0 | hey all |
| 13:02.09 | thing0 | leaving in a week! woo |
| 13:06.40 | brlcad | howdy thing0 |
| 13:06.51 | thing0 | hey brlcad |
| 13:06.57 | thing0 | going to site in a week |
| 13:06.59 | thing0 | yay! |
| 13:07.05 | thing0 | get to leave the office for a while |
| 13:07.11 | brlcad | "to site"? |
| 13:07.20 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:07.28 | thing0 | an Acid Plant down south |
| 13:07.34 | thing0 | for Nickel refinery |
| 13:11.31 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:11.38 | thing0 | it'll be fun |
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| 14:09.20 | thing0 | sorry about my quick departer |
| 14:09.32 | thing0 | laptop almost out of battery |
| 14:09.36 | thing0 | went into hibernate |
| 14:09.37 | thing0 | ;) |
| 14:44.47 | thing0 | alrighty |
| 14:44.49 | thing0 | going now |
| 14:44.50 | thing0 | sleep time |
| 14:44.52 | thing0 | bye! |
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| 19:18.23 | IriX64 | wooohooo 16 hours to compile, thats what I get for walking away from i last night |
| 19:18.30 | IriX64 | it too |
| 19:20.35 | poolio | is there a "voxel" data spec? |
| 19:57.27 | IriX64 | what am I doing wrong here the geometry window didn't come up. http://www.pastebin.ca/564925 |
| 20:02.21 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad rtedge-7.10.1 for the first time :) |
| 20:04.52 | IriX64 | rot 60 45 45 |
| 20:05.31 | IriX64 | thats too beautiful |
| 20:07.28 | IriX64 | it's on the blog now :) |
| 20:08.30 | IriX64 | i'll shutup and be happy now. |
| 20:09.35 | IriX64 | in all seriousness tho, I renamed Cygwin dir to cassie and brought up xming, and thats how im running at the moment. |
| 20:13.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: Flesh out Bezier intersection counting... not done with case c yet |
| 20:19.51 | IriX64 | a ray trace shot if you want to see it, same place |
| 20:24.04 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/564984 Im just having fun now |
| 20:35.23 | IriX64 | the help tcl script runs if tclscripts is in the path |
| 20:37.13 | IriX64 | xpush as opposed to a ypush:) |
| 20:38.36 | IriX64 | this means i can take it on faith now instead of renaming the cygwin directory every time, besides i prefer cygwinx. |
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| 01:32.03 | IriX64 | thats going to set me back, another 17" monitor gone |
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| 18:10.39 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/566929 can't remember if i showed you this warning before or not. |
| 18:30.41 | IriX64 | also wonders what on earth -lGL is doing in there when i specified no gl and the summary said it was not enabled. |
| 18:31.43 | IriX64 | . |
| 18:34.21 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/566971 <--- in case you think I jest. |
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| 18:40.59 | IriX64 | huh it split it again, the paste i mean |
| 18:41.13 | IriX64 | some near top some near bottom |
| 18:41.47 | IriX64 | line 10 |
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| 19:11.01 | brlcad | IriX64: tone it down |
| 19:12.15 | brlcad | that -lGL is coming from tcl, something in their configure |
| 19:12.28 | brlcad | looks like their X11 tests |
| 19:13.19 | IriX64 | never thought of that thanks |
| 19:13.31 | IriX64 | and i will |
| 19:16.41 | poolio | brlcad: Is there already an established voxel data spec? |
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| 20:06.15 | IriX64 | http://www.terarecon.com/downloads/support/vp1000_voxelfileformat.pdf poolio |
| 20:08.25 | brlcad | poolio: brl-cad uses raw data for most of the geometry data sets as there are a slew of other tools for processing raw data in a streaming manner among other manipulations |
| 20:08.48 | brlcad | so if you were to create a vol primitive, for example, you'd provide raw b&w slices |
| 20:09.56 | brlcad | the mk_vol() routine will take volumetric data in said raw format and make a vol for you |
| 20:10.11 | brlcad | mk_vol(struct rt_wdb *fp, const char *name, const char *file, int xdim, int ydim, int zdim, int lo, int hi, const fastf_t *cellsize, const matp_t mat) |
| 20:14.40 | ``Erik | hm, 15 minutes, I wonder if this test run will be done by then. |
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| 20:27.12 | poolio | brlcad: thanks |
| 20:28.03 | poolio | brlcad: so support for volumetric data/voxels is already builtin? |
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| 20:59.41 | IriX64 | brlcad: I can't seem to get anybody's windows x-server (besides cygwin-x) to have the geometry window pull double duty as the framebuffer, is it too much of a hassle to type exec fbserv -S690 /dev/X and use that for rendering? |
| 21:01.16 | brlcad | poolio: yes, there is a volumetric primitive (the 'vol' primitive) -- i'd suggest making one by hand either in mged or in code using mk_vol() to get familiar |
| 21:01.48 | Laniakea | brlcad: tell me - what determines the positions are which photons will fall on emulsion? |
| 21:01.54 | brlcad | IriX64: that's a known issue with the Windows display manager |
| 21:01.57 | Laniakea | Not the density, but the individual positions themselves? |
| 21:02.22 | IriX64 | really, thought it was my fault, sorry to have brought it up |
| 21:02.55 | brlcad | Laniakea: what do you mean by the positions? the photons are fired out from the light sources randomly .. hit points are determined against the geometry, which in turn deposits the photons |
| 21:04.05 | Laniakea | brlcad: if you have a coherent source (laser), you still get random positions. |
| 21:04.28 | Laniakea | Coherent source has a very simple wavefunction - sine wave - that doesn't contain any randomness |
| 21:04.34 | Laniakea | Where does the entropy come from? |
| 21:05.17 | brlcad | Laniakea: er, I presumed you were talking about photon mapping |
| 21:05.32 | brlcad | do you just mean regular ray-tracing photons? |
| 21:06.17 | brlcad | because photon mapping that I just described is something very different |
| 21:07.22 | brlcad | regular ray-tracing fires a grid of rays that recursive traverse through a scene, forking off diffusion, reflection, and perhaps shador rays for each segment |
| 21:08.05 | brlcad | you can tell rt to shoot perfectly in the center of the grid cells (the default), or jitter the rays, or shoot multiple per cell, or shoot multiple per cell jittered, etc |
| 21:16.47 | yukonbob | brlcad: do you have any info on the headers of .dems? The stuff I was dealing with before was always "square" (ie: X by Y) size, but the samples you sent have variable numbers of entries per record, and I'm not sure how to interpret it... |
| 21:17.12 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 21:17.25 | brlcad | hm, mebbie |
| 21:17.33 | yukonbob | *"headers" where header == first 1024-byte block, and 9-pieces of info at start of ea. record. |
| 21:18.12 | yukonbob | I've googled around, and skimmed other projects, but nothings turned up for me yet... |
| 21:21.18 | brlcad | http://rockyweb.cr.usgs.gov/nmpstds/demstds.html |
| 21:21.35 | brlcad | part 2 covers the format |
| 21:22.06 | Laniakea | brlcad: no I mean the physical workings of our universe |
| 21:24.19 | yukonbob | brlcad: rock'n'roll... thx |
| 21:28.05 | ``Erik | ahhhhhh, home at last |
| 22:03.10 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 22:04.33 | jimmyz | hi |
| 22:14.40 | brlcad | howdy jimmyz |
| 22:15.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: When an arc's start center and end points are coplanar, we can't find the plane! so calculate the normal and pass it through to the handler... |
| 22:16.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: alter the arc handle method to take a pre-calculated normal |
| 22:17.27 | jimmyz | hi brlcad |
| 22:17.30 | jimmyz | are you a bot? |
| 22:17.59 | brlcad | jimmyz: are you? |
| 22:18.09 | jimmyz | corse not |
| 22:18.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: to avoid trying to build a plane from a line, pass the origin and a normal instead |
| 22:18.24 | brlcad | then corse not too |
| 22:18.33 | jimmyz | ok sorry |
| 22:18.46 | jimmyz | i'm interested in learning cad? |
| 22:18.55 | jimmyz | this a good place to start? |
| 22:19.09 | brlcad | as good a place as any |
| 22:19.20 | jimmyz | do you know catia at all/ |
| 22:19.31 | brlcad | depends for what purpose, but most of the fundamentals cut across industries |
| 22:19.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: fix circular arc handler method to take a normal |
| 22:19.40 | brlcad | the basics of catia, yes |
| 22:19.56 | jimmyz | how much is it? |
| 22:20.10 | brlcad | brl-cad's gui interface (mged) is nothing at all like catia ;) |
| 22:20.20 | brlcad | you'd have to ask the catia folks |
| 22:20.27 | jimmyz | how capable is brl cad? |
| 22:20.42 | brlcad | fully capable for what it's intended, it's in production use |
| 22:20.43 | jimmyz | cf solidworks and catia etc |
| 22:20.59 | jimmyz | does it do FEA? |
| 22:21.05 | brlcad | but we don't do everything, and don't cater to entire sub-industries of CAD (see the docs on the website) |
| 22:21.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: add a cheesy file parameter to converter (remove hard-coded filename)... needs to be fleshed out better |
| 22:21.57 | brlcad | ehm, most "CAD" packages don't do actual finite element analysis -- they interface with them or include a separate analysis module |
| 22:22.18 | jimmyz | oh i see |
| 22:22.28 | jimmyz | are you in the industry? |
| 22:22.45 | brlcad | there is a brl-cad interface to fea, several actually -- some better than others, some under active development |
| 22:23.00 | brlcad | er, I have no idea what you mean by that |
| 22:23.10 | jimmyz | do you do cad for a living |
| 22:23.14 | brlcad | what constitutes being "in the industry" |
| 22:23.45 | brlcad | are you asking if am I am a geometric designer/modeler? |
| 22:24.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: many bug fixes (openNURBS knot vector problem again...) lots of debug statements. adjusted flatness criterion to be a scale of the curve length. |
| 22:24.23 | jimmyz | umm guess so |
| 22:24.28 | brlcad | i have modeled some things, but i'm more a developer -- software architect, programmer, code monkey |
| 22:24.41 | jimmyz | oh right |
| 22:25.10 | brlcad | i work on brl-cad .. a lot .. among other hats |
| 22:25.25 | jimmyz | is it still developed by the military? |
| 22:25.36 | brlcad | yes, actively developed and used |
| 22:25.57 | jimmyz | i see |
| 22:26.17 | jimmyz | i'm in UK btw |
| 22:27.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: fixed convex hull handling and finished case C implementation (not debugged yet) |
| 22:28.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: NumIntersectionsWith now virtual (duh) |
| 22:29.11 | jimmyz | what is CIA 4 saying? |
| 22:29.29 | brlcad | those are changes being made to the source code |
| 22:29.40 | brlcad | cia announces them in real-time as the code is modified |
| 22:29.49 | jimmyz | who's jlowenz? |
| 22:30.04 | brlcad | one of the developers |
| 22:30.11 | jimmyz | oh i see |
| 22:30.58 | jimmyz | do these cad programs generate output files for CNC machines to work on? |
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| 23:05.55 | brlcad | jimmyz: not usually |
| 23:05.59 | brlcad | that's what CAM software is for |
| 23:06.31 | brlcad | e.g. GNU CAM: http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page |
| 23:06.39 | ``Erik | we can generate stl, but not gcode |
| 23:07.30 | brlcad | someone should write a g-gcode |
| 23:12.17 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782753.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:16.27 | bjorkBSD | brlcad, doesn't the .mil rely on sub-contractors? |
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| 23:33.27 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: huh? |
| 23:33.32 | brlcad | sometimes |
| 23:33.45 | bjorkBSD | i'm wondering how they'd use brl-cad at all. |
| 23:34.00 | brlcad | er, how's that? |
| 23:34.05 | brlcad | or rather why's that? |
| 23:34.21 | bjorkBSD | if they're using subcontractors, they only need to specify an order no? |
| 23:34.46 | bjorkBSD | 'build me a tank daggammit' |
| 23:34.51 | bjorkBSD | and then tank get's built. |
| 23:34.57 | brlcad | oh |
| 23:34.59 | brlcad | heck no |
| 23:34.59 | bjorkBSD | then .mil takes delivery :) |
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| 23:36.05 | brlcad | the tanks are modeled by the modeling experts (of which there are contractor and gov't experts that are adept in brl-cad) |
| 23:36.10 | louipc | I bet they like to be involved with the design too :D |
| 23:36.18 | brlcad | also, subcontractor != contractor |
| 23:36.29 | brlcad | i think you just mean contractors |
| 23:36.53 | *** part/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 23:36.54 | brlcad | a subcontractor would be someone working under contract to a contractor |
| 23:37.32 | louipc | subcontractors might not even know what machine the part they're making goes in... |
| 23:38.21 | bjorkBSD | ah i see i see. |
| 23:38.31 | bjorkBSD | just like ... construction! |
| 23:38.41 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: brl-cad is primarly used to model military assets for analysis purposes |
| 23:38.48 | brlcad | emphasis on the analysis aspect |
| 23:38.55 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 23:39.06 | brlcad | like, model the M1A1 and analyze how well it does in a given encounter |
| 23:39.20 | bjorkBSD | huh? in a combat situation? |
| 23:39.24 | brlcad | sure |
| 23:39.28 | bjorkBSD | you can do THAT?! |
| 23:39.40 | brlcad | that's what it's *primarily* used for |
| 23:39.56 | bjorkBSD | shit! we've been abusing the poor thing by making tea cups with it then :-S |
| 23:40.12 | brlcad | there is a brl-cad model of almost every military asset that's been in production over the past two decades |
| 23:40.26 | bjorkBSD | damn! |
| 23:40.27 | brlcad | at least army and air force.. navy not so much, but some |
| 23:40.55 | bjorkBSD | that's pretty cool. |
| 23:41.05 | bjorkBSD | i'm a pacifist of course... |
| 23:41.16 | brlcad | some modeled entirely by hand, some modeled in other systems and converted to brl-cad, some worked on in multiple cad systems by many groups, etc |
| 23:41.17 | bjorkBSD | but that's still pretty damned cool :-? |
| 23:42.22 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 23:42.23 | brlcad | many of the folks that do the analyses are pacificists too -- vulnerability is generally more important than lethality |
| 23:42.38 | brlcad | keeping the folks inside the vehicles safe |
| 23:42.47 | bjorkBSD | yes. the embedded journalists :) |
| 23:42.53 | brlcad | and how to do that better |
| 23:42.59 | bjorkBSD | we don't want to wake those up in the middle of something fun :D |
| 23:43.30 | bjorkBSD | so you're saying there's a strength of materials component hidden in brl-cad? |
| 23:44.09 | brlcad | wasn't referring to the 'pacifist' folks inside the vehicle .. was referring to people that run the analyses and simulations, trying to find ways to make the vehicles more safe |
| 23:44.19 | bjorkBSD | i know i was being 'punny'. |
| 23:44.22 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: no, i'm not saying that |
| 23:44.58 | brlcad | brl-cad does the geometric representation, physical characteristics -- representing what exists in real life on the computer |
| 23:45.11 | brlcad | it's the job of various analysis codes to do something with that information |
| 23:45.36 | brlcad | whether it has anything to do with material strengths, penetration equations, system connectivity, etc |
| 23:45.46 | bjorkBSD | aha |
| 23:46.07 | brlcad | brl-cad just answers the fundamental geometry questions |
| 23:48.18 | bjorkBSD | heh. i wonder what they used in ussr way back when for the same tasks. |
| 23:49.32 | brlcad | the extent of brl-cad's analysis capacity are those that purely relate to geometric analysis -- computing weights, moments, presented area, energy signatures, images, etc |
| 23:50.28 | brlcad | once we start talking about penetration and material interactions, things get sensitive or classified really quick |
| 23:50.43 | bjorkBSD | that's understandable. |
| 23:50.46 | brlcad | and they certainly wouldn't just be sitting there in an open souce package :) |
| 23:51.35 | brlcad | it was hard enough to open source brl-cad given it's mere ties to the analysis |
| 23:52.36 | brlcad | even with 15 years of "almost open source" public distribution |
| 23:52.43 | bjorkBSD | hmmm. |
| 23:52.50 | bjorkBSD | paranoid much? :D |
| 23:53.35 | brlcad | not me, but others .. heh :) |
| 23:54.59 | bjorkBSD | so why were the sources opened then? |
| 23:55.30 | bjorkBSD | given the importance of the tool. |
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| 00:10.13 | brlcad | bjorkBSD: exactly because it's important |
| 00:10.34 | brlcad | there is no openly freely available CAD system |
| 00:10.45 | brlcad | there is hardly any collaboration between CAD systems |
| 00:10.51 | brlcad | there's no collaborative development |
| 00:11.03 | brlcad | there's no standard open format that everyone can agree on |
| 00:11.16 | bjorkBSD | 'cause everyone's trying for a lock-in. |
| 00:11.23 | brlcad | exactly |
| 00:11.39 | brlcad | it's a multi-billion dollar industry, everyone fighting to be the top dog |
| 00:12.08 | brlcad | here we have a particular community that really has no vested interest in the economics of the CAD industry |
| 00:12.44 | brlcad | isn't trying to sell you anything, they're just trying to do research and analysis -- collaborate with universities, collaborate with other labs, other countries |
| 00:14.03 | brlcad | plus on a mildly fringe ideology, brl-cad's had massive investment .. investment of american tax-payer dollars .. millions |
| 00:14.13 | brlcad | why not put that effort into the hands of the public |
| 00:14.41 | brlcad | encourage collaboration, get folks to make a tool that does what everyone wants -- something with a good solid foundation (even if the gui sucks) |
| 00:15.55 | bjorkBSD | heheheh |
| 00:16.06 | brlcad | developing a CAD system requires massive effort, how utterly massive that is most folks do not realize, but that's why there's not anything other than small academic/toy offerings |
| 00:18.42 | brlcad | by some quantitative measures, brl-cad has almost 500 man-years of effort invested |
| 00:19.01 | bjorkBSD | double that and it'd be as old as methuselah :P |
| 00:19.19 | brlcad | most commercial cad systems have several thousand man-years invested |
| 00:20.08 | brlcad | a package like unigraphics is somewhere on the order of 100 man-years per year and they've been around for over a decade |
| 00:20.31 | bjorkBSD | yikes. have you used it before? |
| 00:21.21 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:21.42 | brlcad | the linux kernel has something on the order of 2500 man-years invested |
| 00:22.17 | brlcad | blender is around 400 |
| 00:22.33 | bjorkBSD | how does it compare to brl-cad? |
| 00:22.42 | brlcad | going by ohloh metrics at the moment, because I'm lacking my other links |
| 00:22.48 | brlcad | how does what compare? |
| 00:24.20 | bjorkBSD | the unigraphics |
| 00:29.34 | brlcad | it's a difficult comparison because the big-four in CAD (unigraphics|nx, pro/engineer, catia, solidworks) are so big with such major industry ties/investments .. and efforts put towards their user interface |
| 00:30.39 | brlcad | brl-cad has had exceptional effort put towards its engine, validity, accuracy, performance, analysis components, functionality, etc .. but has had very little invested in the way of the modeler gui |
| 00:31.15 | brlcad | which is exactly why one of my long-term plans is to revamp the gui, expose all of the functionality and power in brl-cad much better than is currently done with a modern interface |
| 00:32.50 | bjorkBSD | what would you write it in? |
| 00:37.43 | brlcad | well, it's more of a layering, with a clear separation between the tools (i.e. plugins) and the graphical interface |
| 00:38.07 | brlcad | the gui could be written in whatever really -- it's a somewhat thin client |
| 00:38.16 | brlcad | the backend processing is in C/C++ |
| 00:39.28 | bjorkBSD | so it could still be tcl/tk based. |
| 00:41.26 | bjorkBSD | bah. i'm missing a pat metheney concert. |
| 00:41.33 | brlcad | well, as it currently stands designed in my architecture plans, most of the new client will be written in C++ with a plugin layer that includes a tcl interpreter (among others) so that plugins can be imported from our existing code base as well as allowing for plugins in other languages |
| 00:42.00 | brlcad | tcl's embedded into brl-cad's core libraries, so that's not likely to go away anytime soon |
| 00:43.39 | brlcad | it's really making a system that lets each language do what it does well, and letting plugin writers use whatever is most comfortable to them |
| 00:44.24 | brlcad | if someone wants to make a tcl/tk, python, or java gui .. they will be able to pretty easily |
| 00:45.10 | brlcad | and still leverage the core processing back-end that we already have in place |
| 01:00.20 | brlcad | yup, though there's a nice minimal subset that you can write to |
| 01:01.09 | brlcad | so while writing a gcode-to-brlcad importer might be a royal pain with all of the vendor-specific additions, going out to gcode doesn't have to be as much of a pain |
| 01:01.27 | brlcad | maybe have some options for which sets of extensions to allow if it makes for better machinings |
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| 01:39.54 | louipc__ | other CAM software employ gcode preprocessors, where the operations are defined by some other language and then are translated into gcode for a particular machine/control. |
| 01:49.44 | ``Erik | *snrkt* mensa application http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=10172005 |
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| 04:10.15 | cadguy | g'night all |
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| 12:06.56 | thing0 | hey all |
| 13:10.44 | thing0 | bye all |
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| 20:00.14 | IriX64 | brlcad's gui does not (insert appropriate word here) |
| 20:12.05 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, part of the gui i like |
| 20:17.22 | IriX64 | mental note try that shot without debugging and see |
| 20:18.43 | yukonbob | IriX64: whenever I look at your postings, all I see is: |
| 20:18.48 | yukonbob | XML Parsing Error: syntax error |
| 20:18.48 | yukonbob | Location: http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/ |
| 20:18.48 | yukonbob | Line Number 3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"> |
| 20:18.50 | yukonbob | ------------------------------------------------^ |
| 20:19.21 | IriX64 | try it without the /photos |
| 20:19.38 | IriX64 | thats a microsoft site |
| 20:19.40 | yukonbob | same thing |
| 20:20.02 | IriX64 | dunno what to tell you it loads fine here, wait let me try firefox |
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| 20:21.46 | IriX64 | my firefox sees it |
| 20:21.57 | yukonbob | sees error, or sees proper page? |
| 20:22.04 | IriX64 | proper page |
| 20:22.08 | *** part/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com) | |
| 20:23.04 | IriX64 | firefox 2.0.0.3 |
| 20:24.08 | yukonbob | http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Firix32.spaces.live.com%2Fphotos%2F |
| 20:24.35 | IriX64 | dunno man |
| 20:25.12 | IriX64 | wait |
| 20:26.08 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/ copied out of my address bar |
| 20:31.43 | yukonbob | heh -- it works if I "curl" that page, and use firefix to look at resultant file... Thank-you Microsoft!!! |
| 20:33.04 | yukonbob | (...then then don't follow any links --- guess I have to 'curl' that too ;) |
| 20:43.04 | IriX64 | heh sorry man |
| 20:45.13 | IriX64 | is that helicopter really that black? |
| 20:47.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: make sure attributes don't have empty names |
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| 21:22.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/ (operators.asc Makefile.am): add operators.asc which is an example of CSG operators in action, inspired from a similar image from Waterloo's cs488 course on interactive ray-tracing of CSG |
| 21:23.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: units command doesn't seem to be working, must be fixed before release |
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| 21:58.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_ehy.c: it's an elliptical hyperboloid |
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| 01:11.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: jeebus, why in the world is a vls being used for a constant string.. |
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| 02:47.57 | Daytona | Sean, are you there? |
| 02:56.43 | Daytona | anybody have any details on the mged ubits command problem? |
| 02:56.57 | Daytona | oops, I mean "units" command |
| 02:58.30 | brlcad | hey Daytona |
| 02:58.38 | brlcad | hm, is this a first? :) |
| 02:59.33 | Daytona | Yep |
| 03:00.09 | Daytona | I saw the "units" command in the TODO |
| 03:00.17 | Daytona | What is the problem? |
| 03:00.44 | brlcad | well, I just noticed today -- doesn't report the units if you just run units |
| 03:01.08 | Daytona | Oh, I noticed that, too |
| 03:01.36 | Daytona | But the help message doesn't say it will report the units |
| 03:01.51 | Daytona | and the units are displayed in the GUI |
| 03:02.31 | brlcad | iirc it used to report the units, though |
| 03:02.37 | brlcad | just like title |
| 03:03.02 | Daytona | Probably should, for consistency with other commands |
| 03:03.11 | brlcad | plus, displaying in the gui doesn't really help if you're in console mode :) |
| 03:03.25 | brlcad | hm, so you think it never did? |
| 03:03.30 | Daytona | Yeah, should be an easy fix |
| 03:03.48 | Daytona | I don't recall for sure whether it did or not |
| 03:03.50 | brlcad | i swear i remember it returning the units.. or maybe there's just some other command I'm thinking of that also reports it |
| 03:04.19 | brlcad | but I even had that wired in my mind, as I was actually modelling something earlier |
| 03:05.09 | Daytona | Maybe I'll take a look at it this weekend |
| 03:06.28 | brlcad | just took a quick look at wdb_units_cmd.. it has print statements in there to report the current units |
| 03:06.33 | brlcad | "You are now editing in ..." |
| 03:06.49 | brlcad | so something fishy |
| 03:07.25 | Daytona | Is it putting the string in interp.results? |
| 03:07.32 | brlcad | would hunt it down, but I'm deep in the middle of a graphical crash reporter :) |
| 03:07.45 | Daytona | I'll have a look |
| 03:08.16 | brlcad | it does do a tcl_appendresult |
| 03:08.36 | Daytona | OK, I'll look at it this weekend |
| 03:09.08 | Daytona | Right now I need to hit the sack. Have to get up early to take the grandson to a ball game |
| 03:09.23 | brlcad | cool |
| 03:09.32 | brlcad | at ripken's? |
| 03:09.33 | Daytona | bye |
| 03:09.52 | Daytona | No, he's playing in a tournament in Essex |
| 03:09.59 | brlcad | oh, even better ;) |
| 03:10.08 | brlcad | well, best of luck to him |
| 03:10.13 | brlcad | and g'night! |
| 03:10.14 | Daytona | see ya, thanks |
| 04:07.33 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-79-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 04:07.36 | thing0 | hey guys |
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| 10:42.17 | thing1 | hey |
| 10:42.34 | thing1 | hey |
| 10:42.37 | thing1 | dammit |
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| 12:44.14 | thing1 | hmmm |
| 12:44.21 | thing0 | finally |
| 12:44.25 | thing0 | back to normal |
| 13:04.03 | brlcad | howdy thing0 |
| 13:04.15 | brlcad | you're on and off too quickly :) |
| 13:04.19 | brlcad | (to respond) |
| 13:04.25 | thing0 | howdy brlcad |
| 13:04.28 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:04.44 | thing0 | my router was dropping out today |
| 13:07.01 | thing0 | so what you been up to brlcad? |
| 13:07.35 | brlcad | coding ;) |
| 13:07.43 | thing0 | hehe |
| 13:07.56 | thing0 | but of course |
| 13:07.56 | brlcad | trying to get a few last things implemented so a release can be posted |
| 13:07.56 | thing0 | ;) |
| 13:08.14 | thing0 | i have been getting more into project management stuff |
| 13:08.29 | thing0 | listening to podcasts while doing other stuff ;) |
| 13:10.54 | b0ef | any way to prevent mged from using mouse follow? |
| 13:11.33 | b0ef | it's impossible to switch to the listener when the mouse is hovering over the graphics window |
| 13:15.30 | ``Erik | "project management stuff"/ |
| 13:15.31 | ``Erik | ? |
| 13:15.37 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:15.46 | thing0 | my next goal in life |
| 13:15.50 | thing0 | project manager |
| 13:15.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:16.02 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:16.12 | thing0 | I get to be a senior project engineer by default |
| 13:16.18 | thing0 | just have to sit around for a while |
| 13:16.23 | thing0 | PM I have to work for |
| 13:16.33 | thing0 | ahh |
| 13:16.36 | thing0 | ;) |
| 13:16.47 | ``Erik | related to software development, primarily |
| 13:16.53 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:17.09 | ``Erik | deep dependancy chains, radically un-equal "resources", ... |
| 13:17.18 | thing0 | hmm |
| 13:17.49 | ``Erik | I even have a ruby prototype of a time mgmt/todo list program that tries to address a lot of the shit other osftware doesn't :) |
| 13:17.50 | thing0 | I want to be able to learn general skills in PM |
| 13:17.53 | ``Erik | uhmmmm |
| 13:17.59 | ``Erik | joel spolsky |
| 13:18.03 | thing0 | so that it can be transferable to any environment |
| 13:18.26 | ``Erik | wrote an article on it that is interesting (just bear in mind that he was the project manager for excel... so bring a salt lick for any excel related comment in that article) |
| 13:18.29 | thing0 | i am in engineering construction at the moment |
| 13:18.40 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 13:18.48 | thing0 | you got the name of the article? |
| 13:19.04 | ``Erik | I'd assert that software development (an artform) and construction are so radically different, that the skills are simply not transferrable :( |
| 13:19.10 | ``Erik | not off the top of my head |
| 13:19.29 | thing0 | i disagree |
| 13:19.29 | thing0 | the principle of project management is transferable |
| 13:19.33 | thing0 | but it has to be adapted |
| 13:19.34 | ``Erik | perhaps |
| 13:19.47 | thing0 | there is QA etc in construction |
| 13:19.48 | ``Erik | I'm just skeered, cuz there's a notion that a programmer is a programmer |
| 13:19.52 | b0ef | I've just completed a semester in PM;) |
| 13:19.57 | thing0 | hehe |
| 13:20.01 | ``Erik | so you can grab a java UI developer... and make 'em do os C work |
| 13:20.11 | ``Erik | I've seen it happen WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH over the past 3 years. |
| 13:20.11 | ``Erik | :( |
| 13:20.19 | ``Erik | ('cept more in the other direction) |
| 13:20.37 | thing0 | yeah |
| 13:20.51 | ``Erik | and denying perfect fit situations where both the customer and developer really really want to be because of body count on some other high profile project |
| 13:21.02 | thing0 | lol |
| 13:21.07 | thing0 | nah keep going |
| 13:21.07 | thing0 | ;) |
| 13:21.15 | ``Erik | I'm on vacation, that trainwreck of fucked up idiotic criminal management does not exist. |
| 13:21.22 | thing0 | hehe |
| 13:21.23 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 13:21.31 | thing0 | you should chill then |
| 13:21.32 | thing0 | ;) |
| 13:21.39 | ``Erik | in 1.5 hours, I'm driving to the airport |
| 13:21.43 | ``Erik | yo |
| 13:21.46 | thing0 | ah |
| 13:21.49 | thing0 | where you going? |
| 13:21.54 | ``Erik | picking someone up |
| 13:22.40 | thing0 | ahh |
| 13:22.47 | thing0 | hehe |
| 13:23.24 | thing0 | hehe |
| 13:23.36 | thing0 | PARTY at ``Erik house |
| 13:23.38 | ``Erik | and hopefully enough left over for the next month *cough* |
| 13:23.45 | thing0 | hehe |
| 13:23.48 | thing0 | sure |
| 13:24.11 | ``Erik | not sure, though... people from missoura like the booze O.o |
| 13:24.41 | thing0 | ahh |
| 14:01.26 | thing0 | hmm |
| 14:01.37 | thing0 | ``Erik : One hour remaining |
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| 15:31.14 | thing0 | 7 minutes ``Erik |
| 15:31.16 | thing0 | go go go |
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| 17:55.33 | thing0 | you back ``Erik? |
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| 18:32.41 | thing0 | cya pppl |
| 18:32.43 | thing0 | bye! |
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| 20:25.31 | akreal | hello all! |
| 20:48.39 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 20:55.37 | jimmyz | anyone in? |
| 20:58.09 | akreal | jimmyz: aloha! |
| 21:18.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (8 files): |
| 21:18.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Eliminated direct access of interp->result (Not reliable since tcl 8.0). |
| 21:18.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: See the comment in tcl.h. |
| 21:18.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: This also fixes the "units" command. |
| 21:27.02 | *** join/#brlcad Daytona (n=jra@c-68-55-36-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:27.42 | Daytona | sean, are you there? |
| 21:32.03 | jimmyz | anyone in now? |
| 21:32.12 | Daytona | hi |
| 21:32.17 | jimmyz | hiya |
| 21:32.24 | jimmyz | i installed brlcad yesterday |
| 21:32.39 | Daytona | any problems? |
| 21:32.51 | jimmyz | now my comp says i have a file called c:program, which may render computer unstable |
| 21:33.07 | jimmyz | the file doesn't have a suffix for file type |
| 21:33.28 | jimmyz | is it connected with the install? |
| 21:34.26 | Daytona | I've never installed in Windows, so I can't help you, but if anyone else is listening, they might help |
| 21:34.41 | jimmyz | hmm |
| 21:34.57 | jimmyz | how does brlcad compare with autocad? |
| 21:35.28 | Daytona | brlcad doesn't do drawings, it's a solid modeller |
| 21:36.33 | jimmyz | i don't follow |
| 21:36.50 | Daytona | Mostly uses CSG (components built up from combinations of simple primitive shapes) |
| 21:37.04 | Daytona | CSG == Combinatorial Solid Geometry |
| 21:37.47 | jimmyz | ok. what do you use it for |
| 21:37.54 | Daytona | Autocad does engineering drawings and some BREP (Boundary Respresentation) |
| 21:38.44 | jimmyz | hmm. i'm lost |
| 21:38.58 | Daytona | The Army uses it to create detailed 3D computer models of vehicles, which can then be interrogated via raytracing |
| 21:39.07 | jimmyz | is brlcad used for particular things like vehicles? |
| 21:39.40 | Daytona | Actually, it can be used to model any objects |
| 21:40.10 | Daytona | It has excellent raytracing capability |
| 21:40.54 | jimmyz | what is that useful for? |
| 21:42.03 | Daytona | In simualtions that model bullet paths through vehicles, or photon paths through scenes, things like that |
| 21:43.18 | jimmyz | wouldn't you need FEA to know if a bullet gets through a surface? |
| 21:44.58 | Daytona | It doesn't do the physics, just the geometry. BRL-CAD can tell you what lies along a line through the model, but another application would calculate how far along that line a bullet would penetrate |
| 21:46.27 | jimmyz | hmm |
| 21:46.32 | jimmyz | what do you use it for? |
| 21:46.44 | Daytona | I work for the Army :-) |
| 21:47.59 | jimmyz | oh right |
| 21:48.07 | jimmyz | you design vehicles? |
| 21:48.32 | Daytona | No, I work on the software used to evaluate vehicles |
| 21:49.15 | jimmyz | how does the software evaluate vehicles? |
| 21:49.16 | Daytona | That software uses BRL-CAD |
| 21:49.34 | jimmyz | crash testing? |
| 21:50.21 | Daytona | No, simulations of bullet penetration and damage. BRL-CAD supplies the vehicle geometry information. |
| 21:52.01 | jimmyz | hmm |
| 21:52.07 | jimmyz | which vehicles have you worked on? |
| 21:52.42 | Daytona | Many, unfortunately, I can't get into details here :-) |
| 21:52.52 | jimmyz | ahh |
| 21:53.42 | Daytona | BRL-CAD can also make some good images of models |
| 21:54.15 | jimmyz | if i want to design a boat would brl be suitable? |
| 21:55.20 | Daytona | If you actually want to build the boat, probably not. It can't make the required engineering drawings. |
| 21:55.59 | jimmyz | what would an engineering drawing contain that brl wouldn't do? |
| 21:56.04 | jimmyz | excuse my ignorance |
| 21:57.16 | Daytona | Engineering drawings show things like dimensions, curve radii, surface finishes, ... |
| 21:57.52 | jimmyz | brl just shows lines? |
| 21:58.13 | Daytona | BRL-CAD can do very nice colr shaded images of the model, but it won't automatically add dimensions, etc |
| 21:58.24 | Daytona | oops, I mean "coloc" |
| 21:58.38 | Daytona | That is "color" |
| 21:58.55 | jimmyz | hmm |
| 21:59.09 | jimmyz | so can't do plots from it? |
| 22:00.34 | Daytona | It can do plots, but they are different that what you would get from Autocad |
| 22:02.16 | jimmyz | so what is the use of brl without engineering drawings? |
| 22:02.21 | jimmyz | not dissing it....... |
| 22:03.34 | Daytona | It was not intended for design and build. It was originally created for the Army's use. |
| 22:03.59 | jimmyz | what was it created for then, and why did the OS it? |
| 22:04.43 | Daytona | Others have used it for things like x-ray treatment planning. |
| 22:05.17 | jimmyz | radiotherapy you mean? |
| 22:05.30 | Daytona | The Army created it for its raytracing capability. To quickly determine what lies along any line through the geometry |
| 22:05.55 | Daytona | X-Ray treatment for cancer turmors |
| 22:06.01 | jimmyz | i see |
| 22:07.07 | Daytona | You could build your boat in BRL-CAD and make images and drawings of the boat from any viewpoint. |
| 22:07.37 | Daytona | And use that boat model in another application that needed to know about boat geometry. |
| 22:08.08 | Daytona | But boat manufacturers would not find your boat model useful. |
| 22:09.16 | jimmyz | do you deal with boats at all? |
| 22:09.22 | Daytona | no |
| 22:09.33 | Daytona | That's theNavy :-) |
| 22:09.58 | jimmyz | lol |
| 22:10.09 | jimmyz | are you an engineer? |
| 22:10.32 | Daytona | No, Computer Scientist |
| 22:10.56 | Daytona | how about you? |
| 22:11.41 | jimmyz | vision science |
| 22:12.09 | jimmyz | but i have silly ideas of building a boat |
| 22:12.32 | jimmyz | complex business tho' hydrodynamics and all |
| 22:12.32 | Daytona | Now my ignorance, what is vision science? |
| 22:12.39 | jimmyz | how the brain sees |
| 22:12.43 | Daytona | Oh |
| 22:13.18 | Daytona | Yes, as I said, you can modle the geometry with BRL-CAD, but it doesn't know about physics. |
| 22:13.45 | jimmyz | which programs do? |
| 22:14.38 | akreal | Daytona: physics is weight and so on? but not color and transpacy?... |
| 22:14.42 | Daytona | Don't know what might be available free, but things like NASTRAN do FEA |
| 22:15.06 | Daytona | correct, BRL-CAD can handle color and transparency |
| 22:15.25 | jimmyz | catia? |
| 22:16.35 | Daytona | CATIA, Pro/Engineer, Unigraphics, ... are CAD systems specifically designed for design-to-build. |
| 22:17.28 | Daytona | They do mostly geometry, but connect with other packages that can do physics, kinematics, weight and balance, ... |
| 22:17.47 | jimmyz | god, it's a complicated business |
| 22:18.12 | Daytona | Sure is, that's why I stay with simple computer software!!!! |
| 22:20.10 | jimmyz | like brl? |
| 22:20.20 | Daytona | yes :-) |
| 22:20.56 | jimmyz | brl is simple? |
| 22:21.47 | Daytona | It's actually a pretty simple idea, that has a lot of tools and capabilities built up around it. |
| 22:22.23 | Daytona | It's predecessor was started in the 1970's |
| 22:23.00 | jimmyz | i saw the pic of someone on a pdp with it |
| 22:23.31 | Daytona | It was written to replace having to look through engineering drawings of vehicles to determine what wasa along a line through the vehicle |
| 22:24.08 | jimmyz | oh right |
| 22:24.15 | Daytona | One of the guys in the picture was probably Mike Muuss, the original designer of BRL-CAD |
| 22:26.43 | Daytona | got to go now, see you around |
| 22:27.06 | jimmyz | thanks a lot |
| 22:27.08 | jimmyz | nice talking |
| 00:02.58 | jimmyz | anyone around |
| 01:21.04 | brlcad | ahh drat, missed daytona |
| 01:21.52 | jimmyz | hi brlcad |
| 01:21.58 | jimmyz | you there? |
| 01:47.12 | brlcad | hello |
| 01:47.58 | jimmyz | hi |
| 01:48.48 | jimmyz | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:49.25 | brlcad | eh, doesn't sound like it |
| 01:51.32 | brlcad | the message sounds a bit bogus |
| 01:51.50 | brlcad | presumably related to the "Program Files" directory |
| 01:52.01 | jimmyz | the file doesn't have a type - no suffix |
| 01:52.08 | jimmyz | i'm thinking virus |
| 01:52.20 | brlcad | could be |
| 01:52.36 | brlcad | the joys of working with Windows |
| 01:53.24 | jimmyz | scan came clean tho |
| 01:53.43 | jimmyz | maybe i created a directory in brlcad |
| 01:56.59 | jimmyz | can you uninstall brlcad? |
| 01:57.41 | brlcad | sure I can |
| 01:58.25 | brlcad | if something is complaining about a file called program, just look at that file -- delete it or rename it or whatever |
| 01:59.31 | jimmyz | is first line of the file contents. looks brlcad related wouldn't you say? |
| 02:00.35 | brlcad | sure |
| 02:01.06 | brlcad | looks like something you created |
| 02:01.13 | brlcad | maybe a geometry file |
| 02:01.37 | jimmyz | hmm |
| 02:01.59 | brlcad | still, it's back to the same issue .. something is complaining about that file - presumably your OS? |
| 02:02.26 | jimmyz | yeah |
| 02:02.42 | jimmyz | i think you;re right |
| 02:02.48 | brlcad | and presumably you created it through some action .. not a big mystery -- just delete the file? :) |
| 02:02.53 | jimmyz | how do i uninstall it and reinstall it |
| 02:02.57 | jimmyz | there's another problem too |
| 02:03.10 | jimmyz | is says various files are not where they should be |
| 02:03.10 | brlcad | an uninstall won't remove any file you created |
| 02:03.18 | jimmyz | yeah, separate problem |
| 02:03.25 | jimmyz | i'll delete that |
| 02:03.36 | brlcad | it should be in your uninstall apps thing |
| 02:03.53 | brlcad | usual windows shield junk |
| 02:04.35 | jimmyz | thanks |
| 02:16.32 | jimmyz | nn all |
| 02:25.10 | brlcad | cya |
| 02:40.29 | jimmyz | reinstalled it. same problem |
| 02:40.38 | jimmyz | now it won't start up properly |
| 02:40.54 | jimmyz | says html/manuals.. are not where they should bw |
| 02:41.04 | jimmyz | *be |
| 02:41.32 | brlcad | does it actually start up, or are you just reading the message in console |
| 02:41.48 | brlcad | there are some messages mged writes into the console about not finding resources, those are normal on windows |
| 02:42.04 | brlcad | if you get the gui, though, it's fine |
| 02:42.05 | jimmyz | ahh i see |
| 02:42.21 | jimmyz | hmm, but the gui doesn't have menus at top now |
| 02:42.34 | brlcad | there should be two windows |
| 02:42.35 | jimmyz | and menus in command window are unresponsive |
| 02:42.57 | brlcad | eh |
| 02:43.10 | brlcad | i'm not sure what you've done |
| 02:43.40 | brlcad | i've never heard someone have so much trouble with just installing it on windows, you're .. special :) |
| 02:43.59 | jimmyz | gonna reboot comp |
| 02:44.06 | jimmyz | g'night again |
| 02:44.12 | jimmyz | thanks for your help |
| 02:44.15 | brlcad | best of luck |
| 02:44.32 | brlcad | the install is pretty much isolated to one location, easy to clean up and start over fresh |
| 02:44.54 | jimmyz | cool |
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| 09:11.57 | thing0 | hey yall |
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| 09:13.27 | thing0 | hey elite01 |
| 09:13.39 | elite01 | hi thing0 |
| 09:13.52 | thing0 | how you doing? |
| 09:14.12 | elite01 | quite ok |
| 09:14.28 | elite01 | you're fine as well? |
| 09:14.29 | thing0 | good |
| 09:14.35 | thing0 | nah, i'm sick |
| 09:14.41 | thing0 | it sucks |
| 09:14.57 | elite01 | i was sick the day before yesterday |
| 09:15.02 | thing0 | ahh |
| 09:15.06 | thing0 | it is not good |
| 09:15.10 | thing0 | hard to sleep |
| 09:15.10 | elite01 | no |
| 09:15.21 | thing0 | cannot take time off work either |
| 09:15.28 | elite01 | i actually slept well, but the day was quite ugly |
| 09:15.35 | thing0 | hehe |
| 09:15.58 | thing0 | i have fallen asleep two consectutive nights with my laptop on my bed |
| 09:16.14 | elite01 | haha |
| 09:16.37 | thing0 | yeah |
| 09:16.49 | thing0 | I actually also fell asleep on the couch with the laptop in my lap |
| 09:16.57 | thing0 | my little brother woke me |
| 09:16.58 | thing0 | up |
| 09:17.07 | thing0 | so that I wouldn't drop it |
| 09:17.23 | elite01 | i always manage to put my laptop on some shelf before i sleep |
| 09:17.39 | thing0 | sometimes i read articles |
| 09:17.42 | thing0 | before sleep |
| 09:17.45 | thing0 | and doze off |
| 09:18.03 | thing0 | i actually fell asleep at work during my lunch break |
| 09:18.07 | elite01 | i tend to watch star trek, reading soo late in a dark room makes my eyes hurt |
| 09:18.11 | thing0 | almost got an orange in the back of the head |
| 09:18.26 | thing0 | i read on purpose to make my eyes sore |
| 09:18.31 | thing0 | so that I close them and sleep :P |
| 09:18.39 | elite01 | hehe |
| 09:18.50 | thing0 | it works well |
| 09:19.50 | elite01 | do you care for your laptop battery? |
| 09:20.05 | thing0 | yeah |
| 09:20.15 | thing0 | I usually plug it in when I am sitting down |
| 09:20.34 | elite01 | i remove it while in bed because the laptop gets a bit hot with no real ventilation |
| 09:21.05 | thing0 | yeah |
| 09:21.19 | thing0 | I was thinking of adding extra rubber feet across the base of the laptop |
| 09:21.33 | thing0 | to allow it to sit higher on softer surfaces |
| 09:22.04 | elite01 | hmm mine has a fan on the back side, which i like |
| 09:23.32 | thing0 | my fan is underneath |
| 09:23.34 | thing0 | which I hate |
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| 09:24.51 | thing0 | but yeah |
| 09:26.32 | elite01 | what are you using brlcad for? |
| 09:28.02 | thing0 | nothing at the moment |
| 09:28.10 | thing0 | I am looking to join as a developer |
| 09:28.40 | thing0 | I am currently a user of Autodesk Inventor |
| 09:28.49 | thing0 | didn't apply to join there dev team |
| 09:29.02 | thing0 | cause I wanted to work here in mining first |
| 09:29.29 | thing0 | as it is the best industry at the moment to become a project manager |
| 09:29.33 | thing0 | as there is a lot of work on |
| 09:29.48 | thing0 | so I want to join BRLCAD as a hobby |
| 09:29.53 | elite01 | ah |
| 09:29.58 | thing0 | yeah |
| 09:30.23 | thing0 | i made enough noise at the autodesk forums |
| 09:30.46 | thing0 | was contacted by one of the lead software engineers for the modules |
| 09:30.48 | thing0 | hehe |
| 09:31.15 | thing0 | but yeah |
| 09:31.35 | thing0 | I was outraged when a component from there software was removed when they got bought out by autodesk |
| 09:31.56 | thing0 | apparently it didn't fit with the way the program was going |
| 09:32.04 | thing0 | so it got canned |
| 09:32.08 | thing0 | but yeah |
| 09:32.23 | elite01 | just removed is nasty |
| 09:32.28 | thing0 | yeah |
| 09:32.40 | thing0 | I couldn't get a copy of there old software either |
| 09:32.50 | thing0 | contacted all the old reseller which didn't have copies |
| 09:33.07 | elite01 | hmm |
| 09:33.13 | thing0 | it allowed for closed loop control of models |
| 09:33.22 | thing0 | which I thought was awesome |
| 09:33.33 | thing0 | but they removed the scripting engine |
| 09:33.56 | elite01 | they removed a whole scripting engine? |
| 09:34.11 | thing0 | the control part |
| 09:34.18 | thing0 | the physic based stuff is still there |
| 09:34.29 | elite01 | hm |
| 09:34.35 | thing0 | but you can only do limited open loop simulations |
| 09:34.44 | thing0 | so yeah |
| 09:35.04 | thing0 | no Middle level CAD company at the moment offers it |
| 09:35.07 | thing0 | which is kind of sad |
| 09:35.18 | thing0 | Solidworks sorta do it |
| 09:35.32 | thing0 | but it was an absolute nightmare trying to get anywhere with it |
| 09:35.43 | thing0 | and when I did, it still didn't meet my requirements |
| 09:35.52 | thing0 | a lot of time spent with SW support |
| 09:35.53 | thing0 | ;) |
| 09:35.54 | elite01 | that's a real problem |
| 09:35.58 | thing0 | yeah |
| 09:36.07 | thing0 | the only way you can do it easily |
| 09:36.11 | thing0 | is to use MSC.Adams |
| 09:36.18 | thing0 | which costs an arm and a leg |
| 09:36.30 | thing0 | and also requires translation from your CAD |
| 09:36.39 | thing0 | there is a free open source program now too |
| 09:36.43 | thing0 | for robot simulation |
| 09:36.55 | thing0 | but there CAD translator leaves a lot to be desired |
| 09:37.06 | thing0 | maybe we should have some cross link with them |
| 09:37.17 | thing0 | as in BRLCAD |
| 09:37.22 | thing0 | cannot think of the name at the moment |
| 09:45.47 | thing0 | nah |
| 09:45.50 | thing0 | it wasn't open source |
| 09:45.54 | thing0 | it was commercial |
| 09:45.56 | thing0 | webots |
| 09:53.23 | elite01 | scary :) |
| 09:56.13 | thing0 | hmm |
| 09:56.15 | thing0 | http://www.ode.org |
| 09:56.18 | thing0 | this looks good |
| 09:57.06 | elite01 | if you're in for a bit of c++ programming, sure :) |
| 10:00.07 | thing0 | yeah |
| 10:00.12 | thing0 | I ain't scared |
| 10:38.51 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-121-145.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 10:41.25 | thing0 | back |
| 10:48.47 | elite01 | thing0, no need to be scared |
| 10:49.39 | thing0 | I never fear |
| 10:49.52 | thing0 | cause thing0 (pronounced THING O) is here |
| 10:49.53 | thing0 | hehe |
| 10:50.25 | elite01 | so i needn't even be scared because my excellent c skills fscked up vlc really badly |
| 10:50.45 | elite01 | they're lucky i don't have write access to their vcs :) |
| 10:51.02 | thing0 | hehe |
| 10:51.12 | thing0 | my coding skills need a bit more practise |
| 10:51.15 | thing0 | it has been awhile |
| 10:51.53 | elite01 | i think it's worth it |
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| 11:38.30 | thing0 | bbs |
| 11:38.36 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-121-145.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
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| 13:47.47 | thing0 | cya ppl |
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| 04:39.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: |
| 04:39.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Added calls to wdb_create_command() since it had been removed from wdb_obj_init(). |
| 04:39.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Also fixed a small bug where -f option would miss differences. |
| 04:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (7 files in 6 dirs): |
| 04:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Eliminated more instances of direct access of interp->result (not allowed |
| 04:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: since tcl 8.0) |
| 05:16.49 | brlcad | woot |
| 05:18.38 | yukonbob | brlcad: BRL-CAD heavily uses [incr tcl], right? |
| 05:19.10 | brlcad | mged and rtwizard heavily use incrTcl |
| 05:19.17 | brlcad | and archer iirc |
| 05:19.29 | yukonbob | =) -- what I mean is sit idly by --- hopefully I'll be able to contribute some useful code sometime :) |
| 05:19.30 | brlcad | i.e. the gui tools do, but not the rest |
| 05:19.36 | yukonbob | ah... |
| 05:19.52 | yukonbob | but the 7.10 is dependent on the (still beta) tcl 8.5, right? |
| 05:20.17 | brlcad | there are hundreds of "processing tools" that work in a unix fashion (can be chained together, perform rather isolated tasks, command-driven, etc) |
| 05:20.29 | brlcad | right |
| 05:21.00 | brlcad | 8.4 can be made to work, but there are about a dozen lines of code that would need to be back-updated |
| 05:21.18 | brlcad | s/back-updated/patched/ |
| 05:21.29 | yukonbob | is there a changelog 7.8->7.10? |
| 05:21.53 | brlcad | 8.5 is needed for the tk aqua fixes on os x though among a few other significant fixes |
| 05:22.23 | brlcad | yes, see the NEWS file for user-visible changes or the ChangeLog for all commits release-to-release |
| 05:22.41 | brlcad | speaking of the news file... |
| 05:23.04 | yukonbob | brlcad: 8.5 gets it's own native OO, iirc, kinda bases on Xotcl and snit... that's why I was asking about [incr tcl]... |
| 05:23.21 | yukonbob | /bases/based/ |
| 05:25.03 | brlcad | hm, I've not seen anything related to that actually |
| 05:25.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 05:25.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: john fixed the units command, woot. it was an issue with interp->result being |
| 05:25.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: used where apparently it was an object instead of a string. this apparently |
| 05:25.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: only now biting us, probably due to the 8.5 upgrade, though tcl.h says to stop |
| 05:25.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: using it since 8.0 |
| 05:25.16 | brlcad | i know tk picked up that entire theming package |
| 05:26.21 | brlcad | and a couple of the core tcl guys still work on incr tcl so it's quite far from dead (i'm on their commits and tracker lists) |
| 05:29.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 05:29.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: john fixed the units command, woot. it was an issue with interp->result being |
| 05:29.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: used where apparently it was an object instead of a string. this apparently |
| 05:29.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: only now biting us, probably due to the 8.5 upgrade, though tcl.h says to stop |
| 05:29.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: using it since 8.0 |
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| 06:21.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: can get/set with units command |
| 06:23.21 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 06:31.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed a g_diff bug where -f option missed differences -- now only calls atof the values actually seem to be numbers. |
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| 06:51.29 | yukonbob | brlcad: you on? |
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| 12:24.11 | cris | hi, I am an AutoCAD user, and I'm searching for a CAD "4 Linux". Please, what do you know about BRL-CAD? is it a good CAD? is it good for civil engiinering projects ? |
| 12:28.34 | Laniakea | cris: it's not good for CE because it doesn't have dimensions blueprint anything |
| 12:29.27 | Laniakea | cris: look at Qcad but that's 2D only |
| 12:29.32 | cris | Laniakea, hum... :-( ok, thank you. but, do you know a CAD for Linux? |
| 12:29.57 | Laniakea | I know just BRL-CAD and Qcad |
| 12:30.05 | Laniakea | I doubt there is a 3D cad with blueprints and arrows |
| 12:30.27 | Laniakea | I use BRL-CAD and Qcad on my mechanics project |
| 12:30.43 | cris | yes, I know QCad, but I dont like it, it isn't like autocad ... :-) |
| 12:30.44 | Laniakea | what is CE? Is it building houses? Or making machines? |
| 12:31.04 | cris | Laniakea -> CE = civil engennering |
| 12:31.24 | Laniakea | what is it? |
| 12:34.45 | cris | Laniakea -> I'm asking for a cad 4 linux to work with civil engennering |
| 12:36.04 | cris | Laniakea -> please, forget the last speak , CE = building houses |
| 12:39.47 | cris | Laniakea -> thank you |
| 12:48.53 | Laniakea | oh houses |
| 12:49.01 | Laniakea | no I never did houses, only mechanical stuff |
| 12:53.38 | ``Erik | heh, we could model the geometry, and I think we just got hte ability to convert to nastran for FAE type activities, and we have an approximation of edge drawing, and we can even do 2d overlay stuff... but there's no "measurement" tool to generate dimension info |
| 12:57.20 | Laniakea | ``Erik: I just don't care about dims - I am happy that I am getting at least what I am getting from BRL-CAD :) |
| 12:59.40 | ``Erik | just noting where it falls short : |
| 12:59.41 | ``Erik | :) |
| 12:59.51 | ``Erik | sure as hell ain't gonna do shit about it right now, I'm on vacation :D |
| 13:06.38 | archivist | after his holiday of course |
| 13:06.50 | poolio | anyone know if brlcad is going to be back today? |
| 13:12.40 | ``Erik | he seems to be back every day, is it something that someone else can help with? O.o |
| 13:19.55 | poolio | ``Erik: Maybe, I'm starting work today and have a steady stream of questions :P |
| 13:25.58 | poolio | Most of them I'm able to answer myself if I spend the itme, it just would be a lot faster with someone who knew the codebase |
| 13:31.48 | ``Erik | some others of us have some familiarity :) |
| 13:32.07 | poolio | Yeah but I didn't want to interrupt you :) |
| 13:32.27 | ``Erik | aight, but if it's a 5 second thing *shrug* I'll help where I can |
| 13:33.33 | poolio | ``Erik: I'm mainly trying to get how to go about converting a CSG shape into voxel data. So at the moment I'm trying to understand how to get a bounding box |
| 13:34.18 | ``Erik | uhm, after you prep geometry, there's bounding box and bounding sphere information |
| 13:34.41 | poolio | Yeah I see that, but I don't need all the other rt stuff |
| 13:34.50 | brlcad | yeah, he's around |
| 13:35.02 | poolio | Like I'm looking at g_qa.c and it looks like rt_prep_parallel does all the grunt work |
| 13:35.06 | poolio | brlcad: morning :) |
| 13:36.09 | ``Erik | g_qa, heh |
| 13:36.16 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-092-241.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 13:37.47 | poolio | Also. it appears make_bb in mged doesn't actually make the correct bounding box |
| 13:38.06 | poolio | Or more likely, I'm doing it wrong |
| 13:38.11 | brlcad | how so ? |
| 13:38.43 | brlcad | it's AABB, not an OBB |
| 13:39.28 | poolio | Ah oops, the issue was that I hadn't updated the framebuffer |
| 13:39.36 | poolio | d'oh |
| 13:54.15 | poolio | brlcad: Do you think it's an OK starting point if I just took g_qa and stripped it down to what i needed and worked off that code base for the csg --> voxel-like form? |
| 13:54.55 | brlcad | yeah, that's viable |
| 13:55.54 | brlcad | note, though, what part this actually is -- voxelization is one aspect of your fitness function |
| 13:58.31 | poolio | and the aabb is also needed for generation of the initial population |
| 13:58.58 | poolio | along with eliminating invalid mutations |
| 13:59.24 | brlcad | sure, though does g_qa help with getting the aabb? |
| 14:00.03 | poolio | brlcad: No, but it shows me how to do all the prepping I need to do in order to get it |
| 14:00.55 | poolio | Although I think I'd have to try to eliminate rt_prep and do something at a more lower level as the fitness function is going to be the main bottleneck of the GA |
| 14:08.27 | poolio | Oh man, I'm going to have to touch up on semaphores with all this multiple cpu stuff :P |
| 14:14.04 | brlcad | that's actually one of the nice aspects of g_qa is that it's already fully multithreaded |
| 14:15.06 | brlcad | librt's multithreading stuff isn't too complicated, you grab a semaphore to protect your data accesses, then release it when you're done |
| 14:17.30 | brlcad | those routines are being run in parallel via that bu_parallel routine, which says to call plane_worker() for N threads (ncpu) |
| 14:18.02 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah I got that :) |
| 14:19.04 | poolio | I'm trying to understand plane_worker and don't see why you shoot all the rays in the first row, but then every other in the next row |
| 14:22.10 | brlcad | ah, that's a particular aspect of g_qa .. it's a refinement grid |
| 14:22.26 | brlcad | since the model isn't changing.. it's shooting a grid that is more and more refined |
| 14:22.31 | poolio | So meaning the grid spacing is decreeased and refined |
| 14:22.34 | poolio | yeah |
| 14:22.36 | brlcad | right |
| 14:22.44 | brlcad | so it doesn't need to reshoot the spacings it already shot at |
| 14:22.58 | brlcad | big performance savings |
| 14:23.00 | poolio | Ans so because it halves the size each time you can eliminate re-shooting every other one? |
| 14:23.08 | brlcad | right |
| 14:23.15 | poolio | Ah ok, thanks |
| 14:23.43 | brlcad | not sure if that will be any use to you since the models will be different every iteration |
| 14:23.53 | brlcad | but shooting the grid certainly will be |
| 14:24.27 | poolio | Well it will be useful in the brief time you generate the voxel data for the original unchanging model |
| 14:26.13 | brlcad | ah, true |
| 14:26.25 | brlcad | shooting a 4x4, then a 8x8, ... |
| 14:26.47 | poolio | but I'd have to modify it to not do that optimization for all the other thousands (millions?) of times it runs on the population |
| 14:27.34 | brlcad | right, they're just going to shoot at a given resolution for a given iteration |
| 14:27.51 | brlcad | and you could then progressively refine that resolution as the fitness gets better |
| 14:28.13 | poolio | I remember you were talking a little while ago about when shooting the rays I'll want to do a "slingshot" type thing to get a vector of the ray and all the points it passes through. does g_qa implement that? |
| 14:34.38 | poolio | one region = one ray? |
| 14:40.46 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-121-145.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 14:41.03 | thing0 | hey allll |
| 14:49.27 | brlcad | howdy thing0 |
| 14:49.45 | thing0 | hey brlcad |
| 14:49.50 | thing0 | how you doing? |
| 14:49.58 | brlcad | poolio: not sure what you mean by slingshot |
| 14:50.11 | brlcad | it does do shoot-through rays |
| 14:50.17 | poolio | brlcad: Firing a ray and having it return a vector |
| 14:50.19 | poolio | yeah that :) |
| 14:50.27 | poolio | I don't know why the word slingshot came to mind |
| 14:50.34 | thing0 | brlcad: did you see my discussion with ``elite01 yesterday? |
| 14:51.04 | brlcad | thing0: probably |
| 14:51.16 | thing0 | hehe |
| 14:51.18 | brlcad | whether it meant anything to me that I'd remember is a different question ;) |
| 14:51.24 | thing0 | the bit about http://www.ode.org/ |
| 14:51.33 | thing0 | BRLCAD should connect with this |
| 14:51.35 | thing0 | ;) |
| 14:51.38 | brlcad | hm, i might have missed that |
| 14:51.51 | brlcad | yeah, ode's been "on the list" |
| 14:51.59 | thing0 | ahh ok |
| 14:52.36 | brlcad | thing0: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html .. "Material Properties" section, third bullet |
| 14:53.01 | poolio | somehow I feel like what I'm doing isn't very useful ;) |
| 15:00.06 | poolio | brlcad: Is there some sort of example with shoot-through rays? I'm having some issues trying to understand all of rt_shootray() |
| 15:01.19 | thing0 | brlcad: I dunno if Alias still has that format anymore |
| 15:01.27 | thing0 | being bought by Autodesk and all |
| 15:03.08 | brlcad | poolio: are you kidding? if this works, it will be amazingly useful |
| 15:04.26 | brlcad | being able to go from mesh and/or voxel explicit representations to an implicit and/or boundary representation is very useful |
| 15:05.04 | ``Erik | that's some heavy stuff |
| 15:05.15 | ``Erik | 3d version of computer image recognition, yo |
| 15:05.49 | brlcad | it's a means to heal geometry, compress representations, reduce data, recognize patterns, .. any one of those alone are worthwhile |
| 15:07.19 | ``Erik | and advancing the science of that is doctorate worthy shtuff, I'd imagine :) |
| 15:08.20 | poolio | brlcad: Key words _"if this works"_ |
| 15:10.04 | brlcad | even if you implement the approach fully/correctly and it turns out to be a disaster, that's still good research |
| 15:10.34 | brlcad | finding out that a technique doesn't work well is just as useful as one that works well |
| 15:10.59 | brlcad | that said, given the results seen to date, I actually expect this will work very well for some models |
| 15:11.29 | brlcad | implementing the approach fully/correctly is the trick, and the brunt of the hard work ;) |
| 15:12.57 | poolio | eh, first I have to understand the basics of 3d shapes, then i might have a chance |
| 15:14.14 | poolio | Could you gie me a hand understanding some of this terminology? |
| 15:14.50 | brlcad | ~hand poolio |
| 15:14.56 | poolio | hoorah. |
| 15:15.08 | brlcad | hrm, no literal for that one, shucks |
| 15:15.12 | poolio | So a partition in the contex of a ray is the segment of the ray that intersected a solid? |
| 15:15.22 | poolio | hah |
| 15:16.25 | brlcad | ~hand $who is <action> gives $who a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:16.25 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 15:16.30 | brlcad | ~hand poolio |
| 15:16.31 | ibot | ACTION gives brlcad a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:16.36 | brlcad | heh, oops |
| 15:16.56 | poolio | dangling modifier too |
| 15:19.32 | thing0 | hehe |
| 15:21.24 | brlcad | ~no, hand $target is <action> gives $target a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:22.19 | brlcad | hm |
| 15:22.24 | brlcad | ~hand pooolio |
| 15:22.24 | ibot | ACTION gives pooolio a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:22.32 | brlcad | good enough |
| 15:22.32 | poolio | thanks. |
| 15:22.44 | thing0 | ~hand thing0 |
| 15:22.45 | ibot | ACTION gives thing0 a hand, then promptly chops it off |
| 15:22.51 | thing0 | yay! |
| 15:23.12 | brlcad | ~whaleslap thing0 |
| 15:23.12 | ibot | ACTION beats thing0 upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 15:23.24 | brlcad | a classic |
| 15:23.48 | thing0 | nice |
| 15:24.44 | poolio | brlcad: so rt_shootray() passes to hit/miss a circularly linked list of "partitions" where each partition represents a segment of the ray vector where it intersected a solid? |
| 15:25.50 | thing0 | sleep now me |
| 15:26.11 | poolio | thing0: what time is it? |
| 15:26.19 | thing0 | 2326 |
| 15:26.52 | poolio | wow. 12 hours ahead of me. across the globe---> |
| 15:27.33 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:27.55 | thing0 | 36 hours and I'll be on a plane |
| 15:28.05 | thing0 | to a place with limited net access |
| 15:28.06 | thing0 | so yeah |
| 15:28.16 | thing0 | If I am not here for like 3 weeks |
| 15:28.16 | poolio | enjoy? |
| 15:28.23 | thing0 | you'll know why |
| 15:28.28 | thing0 | yeah it will be awesome |
| 15:28.42 | thing0 | I'll be able to work less hours and get paid more |
| 15:28.43 | thing0 | hehe |
| 15:29.05 | thing0 | but |
| 15:29.06 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:29.09 | thing0 | got my lapto |
| 15:29.13 | thing0 | got some movies |
| 15:29.19 | thing0 | got ut2004 |
| 15:29.19 | poolio | funf un |
| 15:29.26 | poolio | good times |
| 15:29.27 | thing0 | autodesk inventor |
| 15:29.31 | thing0 | yeah |
| 15:29.45 | thing0 | but |
| 15:29.51 | thing0 | I get one week off when I get back |
| 15:29.54 | thing0 | so that'll be good |
| 15:29.59 | thing0 | alrighty guys |
| 15:30.04 | thing0 | i'll cya later |
| 15:30.13 | thing0 | hopefully decent enough connection down there |
| 15:30.20 | thing0 | otherwise 3 weeks |
| 15:30.21 | thing0 | hehe |
| 15:30.23 | thing0 | have fun |
| 15:30.25 | thing0 | bye |
| 15:30.35 | brlcad | wooo |
| 15:30.37 | poolio | cya, have fun. |
| 15:30.39 | brlcad | cya thing0 |
| 15:30.59 | brlcad | ~bed thing0 |
| 15:31.00 | ibot | ACTION tucks thing0 into a warm bed. |
| 15:31.09 | poolio | brlcad: What matrix math is VJOIN1? |
| 15:31.38 | brlcad | see include/vmath.h |
| 15:32.38 | brlcad | VJOIN1(A,B,c,D) is A = B + cD |
| 15:33.10 | brlcad | where A, B, and D are vectores, c is a constant |
| 15:33.17 | poolio | I saw that, the thing is I don't quite get what it meant in terms of the code. |
| 15:33.37 | brlcad | basically joins to vectors, scaling one of the vectors |
| 15:33.41 | brlcad | s/to/two/ |
| 15:34.17 | brlcad | ah, in terms of the code it's even easier |
| 15:34.20 | poolio | Ah I think I see what it's doing. Calculating the point where the ray entered and exited a certain partition |
| 15:34.38 | brlcad | yep |
| 15:35.03 | brlcad | a ray fired from a given point, in a given direction, with a hit along some distance |
| 15:35.03 | poolio | geez, I need to start using my brain more |
| 15:35.15 | brlcad | VJOIN1 basically gives you that hit point |
| 15:35.46 | poolio | Any suggestions on how to store the ray data? should I just store the linked list of parititons? |
| 15:36.07 | brlcad | B:[a ray fired from a given point], D:[in a given direction], with c:[a hit along some distance] |
| 15:36.11 | brlcad | just to clarify ;) |
| 15:36.23 | poolio | Yes yes, thank you |
| 15:36.49 | brlcad | no suggestions, whatever works for you |
| 15:37.07 | poolio | I think I might just not store it at all |
| 15:37.11 | brlcad | linked list of partitions should be lightweight enough, maybe store them as an array of linked list |
| 15:37.42 | brlcad | 2d array of segments.. basically a list per grid line |
| 15:37.46 | poolio | Meaning I calculate the fitness of a given model one ray at a time |
| 15:38.14 | poolio | That way the need to store the data is eliminated |
| 15:38.53 | brlcad | that could work |
| 15:39.47 | poolio | Because for debugging I'd have the original model(in real life this would theoretically just be voxel data), and the proposed GA model, so I don't really need the rt stuff as I can just check it in mged |
| 15:42.13 | poolio | But on the downside it'd mean I'd have to write a separate function to shoot rays at the original model |
| 15:42.38 | poolio | Although that could be a benefit |
| 15:42.41 | poolio | ah many things to think about :) |
| 15:43.40 | brlcad | i'd think you want to shoot at the original model |
| 15:43.56 | brlcad | that way you can convert arbitrary models to proposed csg solutions |
| 15:44.33 | brlcad | so your same algorithm will work on a volumetric model, or a polygonal model, or even another CSG model |
| 15:45.51 | poolio | Well yes I want to shoot at the original model, I was just thinking how you could have the same function to shoot rays at the original and the models, but I think it's better seperate, as you have said, so that if you want to work with other data it's easy to implement |
| 15:45.53 | brlcad | that's what I meant about starting with something like a simple CSG sphere as your input model .. you'd raytrace that to stash your list of segments .. then kick off the GA, evaluating via ray-tracing and comparing rays to those stashed |
| 15:46.04 | poolio | Yes exactly :) |
| 15:46.06 | brlcad | ideally, you'll get back a model that is almost exact |
| 15:46.57 | poolio | The one thing I'm kind of concerned about is that the way I'd evaluate the fitenss -- ray by ray -- would make a shifted but identical model be completely unfit |
| 15:47.13 | brlcad | the ray-tracer simply returns segment lists and doesn't care if it's shooting at voxels or triangles or primitives, makes it a nice encapsulation layer |
| 15:47.30 | poolio | yeah, librt++ |
| 15:47.33 | brlcad | yes, well position is just as important as shape |
| 15:47.37 | brlcad | so that model is unfit |
| 15:47.57 | brlcad | likewise for orientation |
| 15:48.06 | poolio | yeah |
| 15:48.42 | brlcad | which is why your genotype really will probably need to be a CSG tree solution (which has operators, matrices, and primitive nodes) |
| 15:49.29 | poolio | and what does the term "region" mean in terms of a ray? the area that the ray has passed through? |
| 15:50.01 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah, I was looking at the tree.c stuff. I'd definitely try to have the genome be something along those lines |
| 15:50.56 | brlcad | another research paper for you to look over in your copious spare time: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/trunkpacking2005.pdf |
| 15:51.23 | brlcad | it's a much more advanced paper, but is even closer in methodology to what you're trying to do |
| 15:51.31 | brlcad | and its results were spectacular |
| 15:51.49 | poolio | cool |
| 15:52.07 | brlcad | you could throw simmulated annealing into yours down the road maybe, but I wouldn't worry about that part for now ;) |
| 15:52.19 | poolio | eeeek. |
| 15:52.23 | brlcad | similarly, if the math gets too deep, just shelve it |
| 15:53.27 | brlcad | they basically solved the same problem you were solving but with just one primitive, didn't allow overlap, but did allow arbitrary orientation -- and they fit an input shape tightly |
| 15:53.46 | brlcad | better than a human could even, using a GA/SA approach |
| 15:54.33 | brlcad | they won best paper just a couple years ago at the ACM SPM conference |
| 15:54.40 | poolio | ah cool. |
| 15:55.02 | poolio | The thing I'm worried about with CSG is the boolean operators...I think that could cause some substantial problems/increase in problem space |
| 15:55.18 | brlcad | which is why you're starting without operators :) |
| 15:55.23 | poolio | jah. |
| 15:55.53 | brlcad | it does substantially increase the space, but then that's what GAs are notorious for searching for solutions over |
| 15:56.26 | brlcad | it's just a matter of how many evolutions, and is your convergence a local minima |
| 15:56.45 | brlcad | getting stuck on a local minima is generally a problem (and where SA helps save the day) |
| 15:57.07 | poolio | I'll have to read up on SAs if I get that far, I know absolutely nil about them at this point |
| 15:57.19 | brlcad | they're probably way beyond the scope of this |
| 15:57.50 | poolio | is brl-cad conform to c89 or can I use // comments? |
| 15:58.15 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing |
| 15:58.33 | poolio | brlcad: I know where to go to look for SA info, I just don't want to write now :D |
| 15:58.42 | brlcad | k, good man ;) |
| 15:58.51 | poolio | *right |
| 15:58.57 | poolio | geez. all the code is frying my brain |
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| 15:59.35 | brlcad | you can probably use // comments for this |
| 15:59.50 | poolio | as it's not really ever going to be integrated into the main codebase |
| 15:59.56 | brlcad | but i'd still try to minimize their use |
| 16:00.12 | brlcad | no, it will be integrated .. you'll be working off the main codebase even |
| 16:00.23 | poolio | oh woah |
| 16:00.31 | brlcad | there's just plans to move up to c99 at year's end when we kick over to subversion |
| 16:00.36 | poolio | speaking of which, is there anywhere in particular you want me to move stuff to? |
| 16:00.45 | poolio | but for now... cvs? |
| 16:00.50 | brlcad | yes, cvs |
| 16:01.25 | brlcad | there's // in the code base now .. so I'm sure the compile will fail in some c89 environments |
| 16:02.27 | brlcad | mipspro is one of the last remaining vestiges, though, so i'm not too concerned with it being c99 |
| 16:02.42 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 16:03.11 | brlcad | hello cadguy |
| 16:03.23 | brlcad | how's youtall? |
| 16:08.51 | cadguy | Whacked out. |
| 16:09.14 | cadguy | Exterminator arrives in a few hours. I've got to finish clearing part of the house for them to do their work. |
| 16:09.36 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:09.53 | brlcad | can't be great if the status begins with an exterminator |
| 16:10.37 | brlcad | how's the course(s)? |
| 16:11.08 | brlcad | lots of folks asking how you all have been doing |
| 16:11.58 | cadguy | Doing better since we got THOR going realtime. |
| 16:12.05 | brlcad | Ralf Muuss sends his regards |
| 16:12.09 | cadguy | Un, make that "interactive" |
| 16:12.19 | brlcad | had lunch with him, chuck, bob, carol last week |
| 16:12.35 | cadguy | Got a nice note from him. Working on a reasonable response amidst the office move today. |
| 16:13.02 | cadguy | Ah, good. So you were in on the lunch. Rolf mentioned it. He really enjoyed it. |
| 16:13.26 | brlcad | sorry, rolf, can't seem to remember that spelling for some reason |
| 16:13.37 | cadguy | np |
| 16:14.11 | cadguy | Anyone check out the video I sent? |
| 16:14.52 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 16:15.01 | brlcad | talked about it for quite a while |
| 16:15.11 | brlcad | the bit about being from MS was funny |
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| 16:16.32 | cadguy | Yeah, that was funny. I was actually thinking about the THOR vid. |
| 16:18.27 | brlcad | ooh |
| 16:18.31 | brlcad | when'd you send it? |
| 16:19.15 | cadguy | Hmmm. Friday or saturday. It's in my account on Xon. |
| 16:19.19 | brlcad | i've not checked e-mail since wednesday .. a trend likely to only continue with the plans to shut things down |
| 16:19.22 | cadguy | Friday I think. |
| 16:19.25 | brlcad | k |
| 16:19.44 | cadguy | Shut things down? You mean *nix or the "great scrub" |
| 16:25.41 | poolio | Is there some sort of builtin function to compare rays? |
| 16:27.20 | cadguy | What do you mean by "compare rays"? |
| 16:27.22 | brlcad | hm, not that I'm aware of |
| 16:31.39 | brlcad | poolio: you're going to have to write that one, and it's very much tailored to what you're doing .. amount matching and amount not matching |
| 16:32.17 | brlcad | cadguy: he means comparing two shotlines against two different models, how similar are the results (e.g. for comparing two models) |
| 16:34.16 | poolio | that's gonna be a slight pain. |
| 16:34.19 | poolio | I think I might do that today |
| 16:36.01 | poolio | I'm thinking project both rays onto another ray and do something like a reverse boolean intersection, the union of the differences |
| 16:38.26 | brlcad | you'll get back evaluated segments, you don't have to do the csg evaluation on the shotlines |
| 16:38.29 | brlcad | it's done for you |
| 16:39.13 | brlcad | so you're really just comparing two segment lists |
| 16:39.19 | poolio | I know that, but I'm talking about doing that on two different shotlines |
| 16:39.42 | poolio | well yes, but to compare them isn't really straightforward |
| 16:40.01 | brlcad | not too horrible, a couple for loops ;) |
| 16:40.29 | brlcad | could even do it with just one methinks |
| 16:41.26 | brlcad | merge the two lists into just one list of entry and exit points .. count your entries and exits and you'll know where they overlap or where there's a miss |
| 16:42.02 | poolio | Ah yeah. smart. |
| 16:44.41 | brlcad | poolio: more documentation to read probably worth your time is to read the librt manpage |
| 16:44.58 | brlcad | it talks about partitions, segments, shooting rays, the application structure, etc |
| 16:45.11 | poolio | sounds helpful :) |
| 16:45.40 | brlcad | as well as the first two links on http://brlcad.org/example_app.php |
| 17:30.44 | poolio | woah brlcad, sudden realization |
| 17:30.50 | poolio | translation is irrelevant |
| 17:31.03 | brlcad | relative translation isn't |
| 17:31.11 | brlcad | but global, yeah |
| 17:31.28 | brlcad | as is scale |
| 17:31.28 | poolio | what do you mean relative translation? as in translation of different shapes within the model's tree? |
| 17:32.15 | poolio | yeah true |
| 17:32.21 | brlcad | e.g. the translation of two spheres being unioned together .. their position relative to each other matters a lot, but where they're positioned in 3-space won't necessarily if you set up matching grids |
| 17:32.48 | poolio | yeah because i'm using AABB they will be the same wherever they are (globally) |
| 17:33.20 | brlcad | so long as you shoot adaptive to the scale/position of the AABB, and not global size (like fixed 1mm grid) |
| 17:33.41 | poolio | yeah |
| 17:34.46 | poolio | so in terms of randomly creating a population, you don't care where it is, you just want all the shapes to intersect an arbitrary bounding box |
| 17:35.44 | poolio | well maybe not arbitrary, maybe the first shape in the hierarchy or something |
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| 18:28.11 | poolio | ah nooooo. nothing like segfaults. |
| 18:33.31 | ``Erik | I'd much rather have a sig11 than a logic bug :) |
| 18:33.42 | ``Erik | gdb and efence make seggies and bus faults easy to track |
| 18:33.49 | poolio | I found the issue |
| 18:35.13 | poolio | Is there a way to copy the partition passed to a_hit ? |
| 18:35.17 | poolio | memcpy? |
| 18:38.03 | ``Erik | um, that'd be a way, but there're pointers that may be deallocated, soooo if you're expecting it to be there out of scope (like if you're threaded), it could be very bad |
| 18:38.16 | poolio | Yeah, I am :( |
| 18:38.36 | ``Erik | I don't recall seeing any kinda partition copy function... might be a good patch unless brlcad can think of an alternative |
| 18:38.36 | poolio | Basically I'm trying to store a partition from a previous ray that I know will have been already calculated, and then compare that ray to future rays |
| 18:39.08 | poolio | Well an alternative for me would be to copy the values that I need into a different data structure |
| 18:39.11 | poolio | which might be smarter anyway |
| 18:39.16 | ``Erik | (now the region pointers should exist until you free the rtip, ... but *shrug*) |
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| 18:59.08 | poolio | brlcad: any way to duplicate a partititon? I'm trying to test out my ray comparison function |
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| 19:08.34 | brlcad | poolio: hmm, pretty simple to iterate over it and manually create a copy, but .. i'm not sure you even need to do that |
| 19:09.12 | brlcad | i believe for a given ray-trace application that the partition lists may be all stored in the application structure |
| 19:13.45 | poolio | brlcad: is it the "a_FINAL_Part_hdp" ? |
| 19:15.15 | brlcad | I think |
| 19:15.28 | brlcad | it's been a long while since I looked ath what is stashed in there |
| 19:15.31 | poolio | and the index values are the # ray / total rays? |
| 19:15.42 | brlcad | index values? |
| 19:15.50 | brlcad | it's a bu_list |
| 19:15.57 | poolio | of parititions? |
| 19:17.01 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:17.40 | brlcad | bu_lists are "inverted" .. you add bu_list as the first element to any structure and it gives you a linked list of that structure |
| 19:18.25 | poolio | yeah I was just reading the bu.h header about them because I'll probably use one to store the data |
| 19:18.36 | poolio | but if I can figure out the a_final_part_hdp stuff than there's no need in duplicating it |
| 19:18.53 | brlcad | that's why a_Final_Part_hdp is a "head pointer", you can iterate over head pointers like: for( BU_LIST_FOR( pp, partition, (struct bu_list *)PartHeadp ) ) { ... } |
| 19:19.39 | brlcad | in your comparison function, have it print out the contents of the application pointer's a_Final_Part_hdp using a for loop like that |
| 19:19.46 | poolio | yeah, g_qa used BU_LISTs for storing region groups |
| 19:20.08 | poolio | well, I'm just going to print out the total linear difference |
| 19:20.09 | brlcad | bu_lists are used everywhere |
| 19:20.44 | brlcad | ratio of right to wrong |
| 19:21.06 | brlcad | weighted by absolute length perhaps |
| 19:22.34 | poolio | well yeah, this is mainly to see if the comparison is working, not the finalized part of the fitness function |
| 19:24.53 | brlcad | whadayaknow .. there is a macro for copying partitions, RT_DUP_PT |
| 19:25.55 | poolio | hoorah. |
| 19:25.55 | brlcad | include/raytrace.h has the details |
| 19:25.56 | poolio | thanks |
| 19:26.20 | brlcad | but like I said, I'm really not sure you even need to |
| 19:27.44 | poolio | also -- shouldn't a_Final_Part_hdp be a linked list of linked lists(partitions for each ray)? |
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| 19:31.13 | poolio | need to what? |
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| 19:31.16 | brlcad | a_Final might just be the last ray .. would have to debug/test to see |
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| 19:34.11 | poolio | brlcad: I might just abandon the pursuit of doing all the ray comparison in hit() and move it to plane_worker where the individual rays are shot |
| 19:35.32 | poolio | and just pass back an array of pt_inhit and pt_outhits |
| 19:35.52 | brlcad | should/could work either way ;) |
| 19:35.58 | brlcad | whatever works out easiest for ya |
| 19:36.33 | poolio | yeah I suppose. It's just segfaulting cause of memory issues and I think half the issue was I started coding before I understood the data structures |
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| 19:38.28 | poolio | ALso, it seems like there is a lot of overhead for features I don't need in librt. Is it worth rewriting a lot of code and trying to get it faster or should I just try to get it working first? |
| 19:46.16 | brlcad | try to get it working first |
| 19:53.06 | akreal | hello brlcad! |
| 19:53.20 | brlcad | howdy akreal |
| 19:55.04 | akreal | i'm a student and i hope to do some cad practice with BRL-CAD, maybe you remember me ;) |
| 19:55.14 | akreal | are there any jobs now? |
| 19:57.09 | brlcad | akreal: I certainly remember your nick, though not so much what we were talkinga bout |
| 19:58.00 | akreal | brlcad: yes, it is so |
| 19:58.47 | brlcad | so what have you been up to? |
| 20:04.19 | akreal | you said the most interesting question was BREP objects, i've got math book with some formulas about it, but i'm not sure that i'm able to put them to BRL-CAD code |
| 20:04.43 | akreal | i'm a looser in production C-coding |
| 20:06.11 | brlcad | you saw the ideas page? |
| 20:07.14 | akreal | yes, i read it some times |
| 20:08.00 | brlcad | anything catch your interest? |
| 20:08.10 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:08.13 | brlcad | it's had a few items added since too, though nothing small |
| 20:11.48 | akreal | could you give me URL? i can't find it |
| 20:14.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: remove hard-coded output filename |
| 20:15.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: remove hard-coded output filename |
| 20:16.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: pass output file on command line and remove hard-coded output file |
| 20:17.16 | brlcad | akreal: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 20:18.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: sort the hits (need to look into this further); remove some debugging output |
| 20:20.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: add some stupid simple debugging capability to openNURBS |
| 20:21.42 | brlcad | ttk, that's the new theming stuff I couldn't remember |
| 20:23.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_nurbscurve.h opennurbs_nurbscurve.cpp): fix NumIntersectionsWith to properly override virtual method from ON_Curve |
| 20:24.12 | poolio | brlcad: I've utterly failed at merging two strings of numbers. :P |
| 20:24.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_curve.cpp opennurbs_bezier.cpp): add some debugging statements; trying to find out why the trimming is not working properly |
| 20:25.49 | brlcad | poolio: hehe |
| 20:26.13 | poolio | All the logic checks out in my brain, but the code segfaults. |
| 20:27.43 | brlcad | where does it segfault? |
| 20:27.55 | brlcad | don't fear the gdb ;) |
| 20:28.11 | poolio | yeah yeah. i'm more of a fan of printf debugging though |
| 20:29.07 | brlcad | that's one of the best habits to break ;) |
| 20:29.41 | brlcad | becoming intimately familiar with your debugger will save you days of your life, though |
| 20:38.38 | akreal | brlcad: i checked the ideas list and saw it'd growed. geometry processing is interested me most, and volume (etc.) routins looks for me more suitable than others |
| 20:39.26 | akreal | its's because i understand what's it about... but maybe you could suggest smth better for newbe? |
| 20:39.58 | brlcad | it's really hard to say without knowing what you're capable of, what your experience is |
| 20:40.25 | brlcad | maybe try working on a little patch or two, or fix a bug.. see how far you get |
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| 20:41.27 | akreal | fixing bug looks like nice thing to start |
| 20:42.00 | akreal | i know it helps a lot to get into the codebase :) |
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| 22:25.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: report the directory when we can't find configure.ac |
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| 02:23.30 | IriX64 | this should say Automagically preparing build ... |
| 02:23.50 | IriX64 | just came to see if .2 is out yet? |
| 02:33.16 | brlcad | not quite yet |
| 02:33.21 | brlcad | keep an eye on TODO |
| 02:33.26 | brlcad | that has the releast stoppers in it |
| 02:34.47 | IriX64 | thank you |
| 02:35.41 | brlcad | i've not seen the first issue in a couple weeks so it might be gone, but the second (bezier) needs to be fixed |
| 02:45.29 | IriX64 | beyond my meager talents, couple more cute pix on the blog irix32 blog |
| 02:46.57 | IriX64 | forgot to enable the gui faceplate mode, ahh well |
| 02:56.30 | IriX64 | facelate gui mode uploaded |
| 04:22.22 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 04:22.22 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 04:22.43 | poolio | sage - shape aggregating genetic engine |
| 04:23.15 | poolio | sewage! |
| 04:23.21 | poolio | shape evolution with a genetic engine |
| 04:23.29 | poolio | I like that one |
| 04:23.36 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:24.46 | poolio | brlcad: any favorite names though ;) |
| 04:26.03 | poolio | man. If I was a user and had to make some call to sewage_* I'd chuckle. |
| 04:26.30 | poolio | I could name all the functions arbitrarily |
| 04:26.41 | poolio | sewage_water, sewage_pipe, sewage_raw, etc... |
| 04:27.22 | yukonbob | sewage_backup, sewage_make, sewage_cleanup |
| 04:27.40 | fgleich | um.... |
| 04:27.47 | poolio | it could happen... |
| 04:30.33 | brlcad | hmm.. etoi |
| 04:30.43 | brlcad | explicit to implicit |
| 04:31.05 | poolio | reminds me too much of atoi |
| 04:31.23 | poolio | Doesn't have the same name as sewage. |
| 04:31.26 | poolio | s/name/ring |
| 04:32.30 | brlcad | something a little less filthy perhaps :) |
| 04:33.31 | brlcad | betoiga => ben's explicit to implicit genetic algorithm |
| 04:34.41 | poolio | kind of like jove |
| 04:34.50 | poolio | geez, naming stuff is hard. |
| 04:35.42 | yukonbob | swis (Swis Is Not Sewage) |
| 04:35.44 | brlcad | and nirt => natalie's interactive ray-tracer |
| 04:35.52 | yukonbob | er...sins |
| 04:36.08 | poolio | yukonbob: Haha. we can be like Gnu :) |
| 04:37.25 | yukonbob | :/ ?what does this code do anyway |
| 04:37.44 | poolio | I'm not sure. Something about genetic algorithms and shapes I think |
| 04:37.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:38.16 | yukonbob | yagafs (yet another genetic algorithm for shapes) |
| 04:38.41 | poolio | bogart |
| 04:38.43 | brlcad | there aren't that many to warrant yet another just quite yet ;) |
| 04:38.47 | yukonbob | (because there are _so_ many around) |
| 04:38.50 | yukonbob | heh |
| 04:39.18 | yukonbob | fomgafs (first of many...) |
| 04:41.05 | brlcad | the tool takes a given model (ideally something like voxelized or polygonal data) and it searches for ways to match that shape using primitives and CSG operations .. so in effect, converts a model to an implicit representation (from whatever it was) using a genetic algorithm (which is just a fancy name for the way it searches for the matching shapes) |
| 04:41.50 | poolio | bites: ben's implicit to explicit shapeamalizer |
| 04:42.40 | yukonbob | deconstructor |
| 04:43.21 | brlcad | taflttr -- takes a f'ing long time to run ;) |
| 04:43.29 | poolio | that's for sure |
| 04:44.04 | fgleich | YAY ! |
| 04:44.13 | fgleich | It's done |
| 04:44.40 | brlcad | yay for fgleich (just don't ask him to name the tool) ;) |
| 04:44.48 | poolio | purty: purty undoes ray tracing yay |
| 04:45.18 | poolio | s/yay/yourself |
| 04:45.19 | poolio | haha |
| 04:47.14 | poolio | buses: ben's unpredictable shape evolution software |
| 04:47.16 | brlcad | shaper => shape heuristic analysis pattern enhancement recognizer |
| 04:47.23 | poolio | geez |
| 04:47.25 | poolio | big words |
| 04:48.30 | fgleich | It's taking as long to install as it did to compile |
| 04:48.34 | fgleich | lol |
| 04:48.39 | fgleich | almost |
| 04:49.01 | brlcad | lot of tools, libraries, and data |
| 04:49.13 | fgleich | yep |
| 04:49.20 | fgleich | make benchmark ? |
| 04:49.31 | brlcad | did you build optimized? |
| 04:50.36 | fgleich | no |
| 04:51.00 | poolio | uh oh. grab a cup of coffee :) |
| 04:51.24 | fgleich | is that a problem ? |
| 04:51.29 | poolio | brlcad: I'm off for the night. I'll be back on in a couple of hours to code, or maybe just spend all day picking a name ;) |
| 04:51.40 | brlcad | fgleich: no, not a problem -- but the performance wont' be comparable |
| 04:51.53 | brlcad | poolio: coolio |
| 04:52.32 | fgleich | I might rebuild it later with that enabled |
| 04:52.33 | brlcad | beset => ben's evolutionary shape extraction tool |
| 04:52.52 | brlcad | ohh, i like that |
| 04:53.03 | brlcad | ~dict beset |
| 04:53.26 | brlcad | to attack on all sides, quite appropriate |
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| 11:30.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: redefine min and max in C++ environment |
| 11:40.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (src/librt/g_brep.cpp include/opennurbs_ext.h): VC++ 6.0 adaptions: missing return statement, parent class, etc. |
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| 12:26.42 | poolio_ | mornin |
| 12:42.57 | elite01 | good day |
| 12:52.05 | poolio_ | how are you kin dsir? |
| 12:53.18 | elite01 | i'm fine, thanks |
| 12:53.33 | elite01 | you too? |
| 12:59.17 | poolio_ | dandy. |
| 13:16.29 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-124-131.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 13:23.46 | poolio_ | wow guys. browsing the cvs source tree: src/conv has successive folders "jack" and "off" |
| 13:27.57 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 13:27.59 | ``Erik | we're cool like that |
| 13:32.21 | poolio_ | wtf. my fan has some sort of magnet in it and when I set it next to my monitor my monitor goes crazy |
| 13:41.42 | Laniakea | poolio_: does it go crazy also when the fan is not on? |
| 13:42.03 | Laniakea | ``Erik: that's cool |
| 13:47.29 | poolio_ | Laniakea: Just when the fan is on, so I guess it's not a magnet. I moved it further away and now all is well. |
| 13:47.52 | Laniakea | poolio_: fans usually contain a squirrel cage asynchronous motor, that's the magnetic field from the motor |
| 13:49.26 | poolio_ | wow. I need to learn some electronics :) |
| 13:49.55 | poolio_ | The bearing is also messed up and it doesn't spin true |
| 14:33.36 | poolio | uh oh. I broke code that is not mine. |
| 16:15.09 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-153-230.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 16:15.43 | thing0 | 13 hours till plane ride |
| 16:15.45 | thing0 | yay! |
| 16:15.48 | thing0 | beb |
| 16:15.51 | thing0 | brb |
| 16:15.53 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-153-230.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 16:29.04 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 16:48.42 | poolio | I forgot I was on a dual core processor and just wasted an hour debugging crap trying to figure out why there was a race condition |
| 16:48.48 | poolio | d'oh. |
| 16:53.09 | poolio | brlcad: do you have any punching bags in the office? |
| 17:25.34 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-124-131.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 17:25.41 | thing0 | hey |
| 17:34.28 | poolio | hello mr. thing0 |
| 17:34.40 | thing0 | hello poolio |
| 17:34.55 | thing0 | I fell asleep when you and brlcad were discussing stuff yesterday |
| 17:34.56 | thing0 | ;) |
| 17:37.18 | poolio | names? |
| 17:37.34 | poolio | I think brlcad settled on beset. I'm personally a fan of sewage although that will never make it into CVS :P |
| 17:38.03 | thing0 | ahh |
| 17:40.22 | thing0 | ok |
| 17:40.25 | thing0 | me sleep now |
| 17:40.32 | thing0 | gotta be on a plane in like 11 hours |
| 17:40.33 | thing0 | hehe |
| 17:40.51 | thing0 | got a training course in 7 hours |
| 17:40.52 | thing0 | argh |
| 17:41.01 | thing0 | cya poolio |
| 17:43.09 | poolio | cya |
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| 18:00.28 | poolio | brlcad: if you ever come back I have a question |
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| 19:12.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix arc generation bug: openNURBS does not interpret "wrapping" angles |
| 19:15.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix plot routine to now show edge curves better (still needs refinement, e.g. dynamic sampling) |
| 19:17.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: debug and fix bezier clipping (case c) - still needs to be cleaned up and more fully debugged |
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| 19:22.04 | IriX64 | brlcad, what the christ is a bezier? :) |
| 19:23.31 | archivist | a curve through control points |
| 19:23.51 | IriX64 | and this code is going to do that |
| 19:25.12 | IriX64 | are you all mathematitions and computer scientists here? |
| 19:27.28 | IriX64 | cant even spell it sigh |
| 19:27.52 | archivist | I dont like to pigeon hole myself |
| 19:28.09 | IriX64 | life does that for you :) |
| 19:28.26 | archivist | no it doesnt |
| 19:28.42 | IriX64 | waits for an explanation |
| 19:29.05 | archivist | I move from programming to electronics to mechanical depends whats needed |
| 19:29.27 | IriX64 | ah i see if you don't like the pigeon hole your in study for another ? |
| 19:30.26 | IriX64 | must needs study another dicipline if you go about doing that |
| 19:31.06 | archivist | self study/ own library |
| 19:31.16 | IriX64 | similar here |
| 19:32.51 | poolio | and here :) |
| 19:33.07 | IriX64 | waves...hey poolio |
| 19:33.30 | IriX64 | got you name chosen |
| 19:34.03 | poolio | not really. Wasted around 4 hours debugging some of my own god-awful code though. |
| 19:34.23 | IriX64 | not a waste if you got it working :) |
| 19:36.14 | poolio | Got it working but now I'm stuck and need someone who knows certain things. *achem* brlcad |
| 19:36.41 | IriX64 | poke him with a pointy stick :) |
| 19:37.29 | poolio | wait. I thought I fixed it. Why is it still segfaulting? |
| 19:37.43 | IriX64 | blame the 6502 ;) |
| 19:38.06 | archivist | hey the 6502 is the original risc micro |
| 19:38.13 | poolio | brlcad: ahoy! |
| 19:39.07 | brlcad | howdy howdy |
| 19:40.19 | brlcad | I didn't settle on beset, you welcome to keep brainstorming something else .. just not sewage :) |
| 19:40.49 | poolio | mannnnnnn |
| 19:40.59 | poolio | beset was cool though |
| 19:41.00 | *** join/#brlcad fgleich (n=fgleich@168-103-124-234.albq.qwest.net) | |
| 19:43.10 | IriX64 | archivist: the 6502 was what usually had to be changed in the atari 400 :) |
| 19:47.09 | poolio | brlcad: get my /msg? |
| 19:48.27 | brlcad | ah, yes -- you can |
| 19:49.02 | brlcad | you can reuse the rtip's iirc, but you'll need separate application structures |
| 19:52.06 | poolio | Might you know how? The way I was thinking about doing it was just recreating rtip |
| 19:52.20 | poolio | and re-running rt_prep_parallel |
| 19:53.18 | brlcad | there is a routine for duplicating rtip's too |
| 19:54.12 | poolio | Also, in g_qa it has a new application structure for evert time the object is raytraced, is that the way it works? ie you can't re-use an application structure and change the ray locations? |
| 19:54.34 | poolio | So duplicate the rtip after reading the database but before getting the object tree? |
| 19:54.55 | brlcad | er, that's not quite what I meant |
| 19:55.43 | brlcad | a single application structure is used for shooting all the rays |
| 19:55.57 | poolio | Sorry for all the stupid questions, I'm just trying to learn my way around |
| 19:55.58 | brlcad | you keep updating the a_ray entry |
| 19:56.43 | brlcad | what you'll probably want to do is get a dbip |
| 19:56.54 | brlcad | with basically is a handle on the .g |
| 19:56.57 | poolio | Ok, but if you change the number of rays, can you still use the same applicaton struct? |
| 19:57.17 | brlcad | then for each model you want, extract an rtip from the dbip (using rt_new_rti(dbip)) |
| 19:57.27 | poolio | ah okay |
| 19:57.57 | brlcad | then do an rt_gettree(rtip, "whatever object") to load/prep that object |
| 19:58.05 | brlcad | sorry, just load |
| 19:58.08 | poolio | do I need to run rt_prep_parallel? |
| 19:58.12 | brlcad | you'll need to run rt_prep to prep it |
| 19:58.18 | poolio | alright cool, thanks |
| 19:58.25 | brlcad | yeah, rt_prep_parallel will work too |
| 19:58.46 | brlcad | take a look at g_transfer in src/gtools |
| 19:58.52 | brlcad | it does something very similar |
| 19:58.55 | brlcad | iirc |
| 19:59.02 | poolio | I'm trying to finish the csg->voxel-like format and ray comparison for today, it's being a pain though. and i forgot i had 2 processors so ... |
| 19:59.09 | poolio | ok |
| 20:00.33 | brlcad | so you still thinking up a name? I'd like to get you working off cvs as soon as possible |
| 20:03.21 | poolio | I haven't been thinking much about it, and my code is so awful I don't want to commmit it yet :) |
| 20:04.39 | brlcad | which is all the more reason why you need to be exposing yourself more ;) |
| 20:04.44 | poolio | oh boy. |
| 20:04.51 | brlcad | open source is all about being open through and through ;) |
| 20:04.57 | poolio | I'm fine with beset, I forget what it stood for but the definition fits the program |
| 20:05.26 | poolio | Ejxpose yourself so people will clean you up :) |
| 20:05.53 | brlcad | nah, everyone wants the tools and wants to see them improve |
| 20:06.01 | brlcad | development "cruft" is natural |
| 20:06.09 | brlcad | it's never "done", never "perfect" |
| 20:06.32 | poolio | Yeah, which is why they'll clean you up |
| 20:06.44 | poolio | well...i suppose |
| 20:07.28 | poolio | I think I'm going to just rewrite this csg->voxel/ray comparison stuff again from scratch. Right now I have just slimmed down the g_qa tool and so the structure no longer fits the program |
| 20:07.49 | poolio | also: should I try to keep it multithreaded? |
| 20:08.09 | poolio | well no...parallel |
| 20:09.23 | brlcad | yeah, try hard to keep it parallel |
| 20:09.48 | brlcad | that'll let me test your tool on considerably faster machines |
| 20:10.03 | poolio | ok. that's what messed up my entire morning, I implemented a link list not with BU_LIST and didnt use and semaphores to lock it down and a race condition developed and it kept randomly segfaulting |
| 20:11.01 | brlcad | fun :) |
| 20:12.41 | poolio | alright, so I'm gonna do a major refactoring/rewrite starting now and hopefully it'll all work out :) |
| 20:16.21 | IriX64 | be sure to put a heatsink on the 6502 ;) |
| 20:17.22 | poolio | No heatsink neccesary, it's bathing in mineral oil. |
| 20:17.39 | IriX64 | heh towel dry then :) |
| 20:29.29 | IriX64 | fgleich: howd you make out with your build? |
| 20:40.44 | fgleich | IriX64: It built fine after I installed all the depends |
| 20:41.14 | IriX64 | now you can do that job you were waiting to do :) |
| 20:41.16 | fgleich | trying to figure out what it needed took a little head scratching |
| 20:41.47 | IriX64 | im lucky just type autogen and do what it says ;) |
| 20:42.04 | IriX64 | err +.sh |
| 20:42.26 | fgleich | I did that too |
| 20:43.02 | fgleich | but, some X stuff was missing and it errored out til I installed what it needed |
| 20:44.00 | IriX64 | i see |
| 20:45.56 | fgleich | have you tried opening up the manual from the help menu command ? |
| 20:46.22 | fgleich | I guess the manual is a seperate download ? |
| 20:46.45 | fgleich | brb |
| 20:49.53 | fgleich | back |
| 20:52.02 | fgleich | Are there some environmental things to set, like BRLCADHOME ? |
| 20:57.00 | IriX64 | the manual is in pdf format too at http://brlcad.org |
| 20:57.43 | IriX64 | so are the tutorials (a must) |
| 20:59.23 | IriX64 | btw what version are we talking? |
| 21:01.28 | brlcad | fgleich: no, there aren't any environment variables to set if you installed it correctly |
| 21:03.35 | brlcad | fgleich: the help menu just tries to invoke a web browser on the html docs in the share folder -- you can open them directly too |
| 21:04.09 | IriX64 | and theres always the man pages flgeich |
| 21:04.19 | brlcad | they should be in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.0/html/ |
| 21:04.29 | brlcad | yeah, good point |
| 21:04.32 | brlcad | loads of man pages |
| 21:06.18 | fgleich | ok thanks :) |
| 21:07.20 | IriX64 | is it still true that if all else fails they can ask in the channel (if they have patience) brlcad? |
| 21:07.49 | poolio | brlcad: Do I need to use the register keyword in my code? Don't most compilers choose what they want to put in the register and ignore register keywords nowadays? |
| 21:08.49 | brlcad | IriX64: of course, always |
| 21:09.02 | IriX64 | there you go fgleich |
| 21:10.27 | brlcad | poolio: they've always just been hints to the compilers |
| 21:10.46 | brlcad | most all of the popular modern compilers still take those hints into account |
| 21:10.58 | poolio | oh alright |
| 21:11.07 | brlcad | you don't have to use them, it's really just annotating variables that are repeatedly/frequently used |
| 21:17.38 | fgleich | thanks IriX64 |
| 21:17.50 | IriX64 | welcome |
| 21:35.31 | IriX64 | elite01: are you the elite01 I know from Efnet (me as warl0ck) ? |
| 21:35.57 | elite01 | IriX64, don't think so |
| 21:36.14 | IriX64 | sorry same nick so i wondered |
| 21:36.17 | elite01 | i'm not at efnet |
| 21:36.30 | IriX64 | haven't been there for over two years |
| 21:36.45 | elite01 | ah |
| 21:37.12 | elite01 | i don't remember ever having been there |
| 21:37.15 | IriX64 | you were building brlcad last time i saw you, get it to go? |
| 21:38.00 | IriX64 | or were you using it? |
| 21:38.19 | elite01 | hmm i once had some trouble building 7.10 |
| 21:38.30 | IriX64 | must be it |
| 21:38.33 | elite01 | but i was using 7.8 before |
| 21:39.09 | IriX64 | i'm still playing with both, sent my yacht out to manufactur last week :P |
| 21:39.40 | elite01 | whoa :) |
| 21:40.03 | IriX64 | now i have to writew some code to pay for it :) |
| 21:40.10 | IriX64 | err write |
| 21:41.00 | elite01 | hehe |
| 21:41.39 | IriX64 | back to work, thanks for the break and sorry about the mistaken identity |
| 21:41.47 | elite01 | nah no problem |
| 21:41.54 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 21:53.27 | IriX64 | urff my systems taken a hit somewhere along the way, both bwish and mged fail to link with tons of undefined xfunctions references |
| 21:53.59 | elite01 | IriX64, ouch |
| 21:54.03 | IriX64 | but 7.8.4 links, cant figure this out |
| 21:54.11 | IriX64 | yeah |
| 21:55.21 | IriX64 | prefer 7.8.4 do you |
| 21:55.39 | elite01 | nah i generally prefer newer versions |
| 21:55.42 | elite01 | if they work :) |
| 21:56.28 | elite01 | psst - what's the price? |
| 21:57.11 | IriX64 | your promise that you never mention me |
| 21:57.48 | elite01 | do i look like i would? |
| 21:58.05 | brlcad | i think IriX64's plan is to just keep complaining about 7.10 until it magically works for him |
| 21:58.23 | elite01 | IriX64, there was a traitor among us |
| 21:58.49 | IriX64 | did *I mention 7.10 |
| 21:58.55 | elite01 | brlcad, well, if it works, i hereby complaina about 7.10 |
| 21:59.09 | IriX64 | now magic should happen ? |
| 21:59.13 | brlcad | arbitrarily changing the version string in configure.ac doesn't make a 7.8.8 real |
| 21:59.18 | elite01 | in thy name of jah! |
| 22:00.14 | elite01 | now, it's what i'd call tomorrow a minute ago |
| 22:00.23 | IriX64 | still going though |
| 22:00.28 | brlcad | elite01: I'm more than happy to investigate and fix any build system problems -- just nobody has provided a failure report that can be looked into |
| 22:00.31 | IriX64 | the compile i mean |
| 22:00.52 | IriX64 | it's *not your problem brlcad |
| 22:01.10 | elite01 | i think 7.10 built fine here once |
| 22:01.15 | IriX64 | see |
| 22:01.40 | IriX64 | what system elite01? |
| 22:02.07 | elite01 | fedora |
| 22:02.27 | IriX64 | sorta the same i guess unix is unix |
| 22:02.33 | IriX64 | well sorta |
| 22:02.47 | elite01 | what've you got? mac os? :D |
| 22:03.04 | IriX64 | cray-ymp :) |
| 22:03.10 | IriX64 | doubles as a furnace |
| 22:03.46 | elite01 | although i have no idea which model ymp is - cray does sound scary :) |
| 22:04.03 | elite01 | they're building amd64 clusters now, aren't they? |
| 22:04.04 | IriX64 | multi processor |
| 22:04.16 | IriX64 | dunno don't keep up |
| 22:04.40 | elite01 | i've sure got smp as well :) |
| 22:05.09 | IriX64 | heh i have a z80 and am trying to build obn cp/m |
| 22:05.15 | IriX64 | on too |
| 22:05.41 | elite01 | and i thought freedos was exotic |
| 22:06.42 | IriX64 | don't want to abandon 7.10 but may have no choice |
| 22:07.32 | elite01 | hm |
| 22:07.44 | IriX64 | brlcad you say you need a report, I ask now is there a chance ill have a proper tkWinDefault.h file any time soon? |
| 22:08.20 | brlcad | IriX64: if it doesn't build, I usually care, even if the platform is the cause .. I've put a lot of effort towards making the build flexible yet functional for as wide a set of environments as possible, given the package complexity |
| 22:08.23 | elite01 | well, i'd rather leave if i don't want to be late tomorrow |
| 22:08.33 | elite01 | see you soon |
| 22:08.41 | IriX64 | see you elite01 |
| 22:09.17 | IriX64 | brlcad I know its not you people im worried about,for instance mention cygwin to the x11 people what will happen? |
| 22:11.14 | IriX64 | i'm forcing a build right now, but whats the point bwish and mged won't function properly becuase of those undefines in them |
| 22:12.03 | IriX64 | force build is so the rest of the exes will be produced. |
| 22:13.25 | brlcad | yeah, but at this point, I don't even have the faintest idea why it does or does not work |
| 22:13.46 | brlcad | i've only heard random ramblings of various things you do and try, no sense of what actually went wrong _first_ |
| 22:13.59 | brlcad | to determine what needs to be fixed/changed, if anything |
| 22:27.15 | IriX64 | ill try again and pastebin the error |
| 22:32.56 | IriX64 | will take a while have to reconfigure with different cflags and remake |
| 22:35.18 | brlcad | and it needs to be with a pristine copy |
| 22:35.33 | brlcad | no modifications, no flags, nothing |
| 22:35.49 | IriX64 | not even bsd i like that code line |
| 22:35.52 | brlcad | from cvs head preferably so changes can be tested |
| 22:36.03 | IriX64 | all right ill play |
| 22:36.49 | brlcad | it really should work as just ./configure && make to at least give you a successful compile and console-mode mged |
| 22:37.00 | IriX64 | i know |
| 22:37.27 | IriX64 | logged in |
| 22:58.05 | IriX64 | sigh..checking out, how, i never checked in :) |
| 23:23.03 | IriX64 | if i dont edit this thing winsock.h is going to conflict with socket.h, sure you don't want any editing? |
| 23:26.28 | IriX64 | put a dnl in front of winsock.h |
| 23:26.55 | IriX64 | touched nothing else |
| 23:30.46 | IriX64 | ill paste the ./configure summary |
| 23:33.58 | brlcad | no editing |
| 23:34.04 | IriX64 | right |
| 23:34.16 | brlcad | that's where things start getting screwy -- if there's a conflict, it needs to be fixed |
| 23:34.45 | IriX64 | whoa wait you mean winsock? |
| 23:34.51 | brlcad | of course |
| 23:36.25 | IriX64 | I... didn't think you would be interested in that one, most systems don't have both |
| 23:36.44 | IriX64 | but ill paste that error too |
| 23:41.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/577579 1st problem (says to report it to you :)) |
| 23:45.10 | brlcad | okay, that there is just a warning and benign, but thanks for pointing it out .. i'm more concerned with errors -- where it actually stops compiling |
| 23:45.15 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/577586 summary. should i start make? |
| 23:45.51 | brlcad | sure |
| 23:46.51 | IriX64 | started itll take a bit but the winsock error is first to be hit |
| 23:56.55 | IriX64 | forgot about tkwindefault.h http://www.pastebin.ca/577602 |
| 23:57.11 | IriX64 | shall i apply my patch and continue? |
| 23:58.30 | IriX64 | patch I use is simply to use tkUnixDefault.h, seems to keep it happy |
| 23:58.54 | IriX64 | that file is asked for in default.h in generic if you want to see it |
| 23:59.56 | brlcad | no, just hold it there and i'll poke |
| 00:00.05 | IriX64 | all right |
| 00:00.29 | brlcad | maybe keep this dir off to the side so that we can continue this over a few days .. but leaving it alone so we can get it to build cleanly |
| 00:01.00 | IriX64 | ill do that thanks for tthe help, ill just switch back to 7.8.4 for a few days |
| 00:15.44 | IriX64 | this is the kind of summary I prefer, i changed the version number cause i did a little playing with the code rot comes to mind and some other stuff like the raytrace control panel. http://www.pastebin.ca/577656 |
| 00:17.31 | IriX64 | angle distance cursor is neat too |
| 00:22.00 | IriX64 | brlcad: what's your cleanest line of code, I'm happy the bsd but if you suggest cleaner i'll use it. |
| 00:22.11 | IriX64 | s/if/the |
| 00:22.21 | IriX64 | err with |
| 00:23.21 | IriX64 | supposed to isn't it? |
| 00:23.49 | IriX64 | i start mine from dos :P |
| 00:23.55 | yukonbob | it's supposed to use DISPLAY to know which (if any) X display to use... |
| 00:24.15 | yukonbob | (that's the typical X client action). |
| 00:24.23 | IriX64 | but it picks up the default that xterm is running on, proper behaviour |
| 00:24.48 | yukonbob | not if it's reset... ie: export DISPLAY=''; mged |
| 00:25.04 | yukonbob | does same from a console completely unrelated to X as well... |
| 00:25.18 | IriX64 | my system might be different (ie cygwin) |
| 00:25.56 | yukonbob | do you have xeyes installed? |
| 00:26.06 | IriX64 | think so wait |
| 00:26.14 | yukonbob | if so, try: export DISPLAY=''; xeyes |
| 00:26.49 | yukonbob | or better: env DISPLAY='' xeyes |
| 00:26.59 | yukonbob | (won't have to reset DISPLAY variable) |
| 00:27.16 | IriX64 | from an xterm prompt or console prompt? |
| 00:27.26 | yukonbob | xterm |
| 00:27.37 | IriX64 | lemme fire x up |
| 00:27.38 | yukonbob | just try 'xeyes' first |
| 00:27.57 | yukonbob | you should get a pair of googley eyes following your mouse cursor... |
| 00:28.01 | yukonbob | ^C to get rid of them. |
| 00:28.40 | IriX64 | got them |
| 00:28.52 | IriX64 | gone |
| 00:29.03 | yukonbob | now try w/ the "env DISPLAY='' xeyes" |
| 00:29.14 | yukonbob | (no double-quotes) |
| 00:30.16 | IriX64 | got a > |
| 00:30.37 | yukonbob | env DISPLAY='' xeyes |
| 00:30.49 | IriX64 | how do i get out of it, quit:) |
| 00:30.56 | yukonbob | prolly ^D |
| 00:31.05 | yukonbob | env DISPLAY='' xeyes |
| 00:31.12 | yukonbob | ^---two single quotes |
| 00:31.21 | yukonbob | (after DISPLAY=) |
| 00:31.40 | IriX64 | cant open display, your right |
| 00:31.51 | yukonbob | right... that's typical behaviour |
| 00:32.35 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 00:32.58 | IriX64 | learned i'm always wrong :P |
| 00:34.27 | yukonbob | or you learned you can always get smarter :) |
| 00:35.49 | IriX64 | that too :) |
| 00:36.17 | IriX64 | the seed of smartness though is hard to plant |
| 00:39.30 | IriX64 | so your saying theres a bug in mged yukonbob? |
| 00:41.13 | IriX64 | what happens if you set DISPLAY to 127.0.0.1:0.0 ? |
| 00:41.52 | yukonbob | I'd say when it tries to connect to servers that I don't specify, that's bad policy |
| 00:42.20 | IriX64 | it assumes you want a display window, thats its function |
| 00:42.28 | yukonbob | If I'm working on a super-secret fembot from a remote computer, but the display comes up on my work computer for my co-workers to see, that'd be embarassing |
| 00:42.59 | IriX64 | uses a default not entirely wrong behaviour |
| 00:43.06 | yukonbob | "assuming" isn't good policy. |
| 00:43.20 | yukonbob | if the DISPLAY="", their is no default display |
| 00:43.37 | IriX64 | but one was programmed in |
| 00:44.10 | yukonbob | it may loop through a pre-compiled list of likely possibilities, but I'd say that's bad policy. |
| 00:44.42 | IriX64 | brlcad said to somebody today no environment variables are neccessary if installed correctly |
| 00:45.14 | yukonbob | DISPLAY can be depended on in an X environment though --- otherwise X clients just won't work ;) |
| 00:45.29 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:46.37 | yukonbob | brlcad probably meant that there are no special environment variables that need to be set 'by hand'. |
| 00:46.45 | IriX64 | love my system, did all that while compiling brlcad and ripping cassette tape. |
| 00:46.58 | IriX64 | your probably right |
| 00:48.44 | fgleich | you have to add the bin to your PATH, right ? |
| 00:48.59 | IriX64 | yes |
| 00:49.04 | yukonbob | or put the bin in a path that's already set ;) |
| 00:49.07 | IriX64 | brlcad/bin |
| 00:49.12 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 01:01.11 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad added some stuff, feel free to spread that url around |
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| 01:41.27 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/577788 a benchmark with optimized on debug off |
| 01:52.56 | IriX64 | well bu_bomb() works... terra.g is using a null pointer somewhere caught by bu_ckmag |
| 01:53.06 | IriX64 | in 7.8 |
| 02:06.18 | yukonbob | can anybody tell me why when I make (for example) a vertical post (in post rcc 0 0 0 0 0 100 1) and a wire joining top of post to ground (in wire rcc 0 0 100 100 0 0 0.1), the "wire" doesn't seem to reflect the angle it should be at, and maybe not even the length? (I'm know it's going to be operator error, but I don't know what that error is yet ;) |
| 02:11.55 | IriX64 | are you saying i'm dumb as a post :P |
| 02:21.49 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, my first "real one" :) |
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| 02:35.02 | IriX64 | bsod lovely |
| 02:36.06 | IriX64 | the blog has one with the work environment enabled, adc grid axes indicators faceplate etc |
| 03:29.36 | poolio | moore late night coding 8) |
| 05:09.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/doc/cvs.txt: CVS moved from cvs.sf.net to brlcad.cvs.sf.net |
| 05:09.22 | poolio | et voila :) |
| 05:10.08 | brlcad | woot |
| 05:10.14 | brlcad | ~poolio++ |
| 05:10.43 | poolio | so should I just add a new folder and the one file I'm working off of to src/gtools too? |
| 05:11.24 | brlcad | sure |
| 05:18.06 | poolio | is there a reason it's u,v,i axis and not x,y,z? |
| 05:20.22 | brlcad | what are you referring to? |
| 05:20.31 | poolio | q_ga mainly |
| 05:21.41 | brlcad | probably no "strong reason" other than thinking of the grid being fired as a u,v parameter space instead of just coordiantes in 3-space |
| 05:21.43 | poolio | and I'm guessing I need to include the massive copyright headers I hate? |
| 05:22.04 | brlcad | yep, they're boilerplate |
| 05:22.12 | brlcad | you can auto-add them, however, using a script |
| 05:22.21 | brlcad | sh/template.sh lgpl yourfile.c |
| 05:22.48 | brlcad | can be used to stub empty files or add header/footers to existing files |
| 05:25.32 | poolio | and is there a name I should use for the shape I'm trying to match? I've been just calling it the model but that's not at all what it is |
| 05:28.36 | brlcad | it is "a model" |
| 05:29.01 | brlcad | just not "the model" that you're trying to generate |
| 05:29.11 | poolio | so we're trying to match a csg population to the model? |
| 05:29.48 | brlcad | maybe call it the source or the source pattern or the reference shape, etc |
| 05:30.11 | poolio | I'll just reference it as the source model for now |
| 05:30.15 | poolio | wait no |
| 05:30.25 | poolio | just plain source...haha |
| 05:43.43 | poolio | alright, i'm gonna commit me code, cya in the mornin. |
| 05:44.16 | brlcad | won't be available much of tomorrow day-time, but back in the afternoon/evening |
| 05:44.40 | poolio | alright, I think I'm pretty much know what I'll be doing, so hopefully I'll have progress to show you then. ta ta. |
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| 05:55.06 | poolio | damn vim! I comcommited a .swp file.... |
| 05:55.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: initial base for _beset_: ben's evolutionary shape extraction tool |
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| 13:36.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if we're building with cygwin, tk wants access to headers in the tk/win directory, so add it to the cppflags header search paths |
| 13:36.54 | brlcad | IriX64: cvs update configure.ac && ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make |
| 13:53.42 | poolio | mornin brlcad :) |
| 13:54.22 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 13:58.52 | brlcad | mornin' poolio |
| 13:59.39 | poolio | I committed beset last night :) |
| 14:00.21 | poolio | is the coding style ok? I tried to mirror the way g_qa was formatted |
| 14:00.30 | poolio | and from the HACKING document |
| 14:47.03 | poolio | brlcad: does BU_LIST manage its own cleanup? |
| 14:54.55 | brlcad | erm, how would they do that? |
| 14:55.09 | brlcad | they only do what the code you write makes them do |
| 14:55.09 | poolio | I haven't a clue, but in g_qa the linked lists never get free'd |
| 14:55.41 | brlcad | ah, yeah .. just bad form from the author (shame on lee) |
| 14:55.55 | brlcad | he's relying on exit to free resources since it's not reused |
| 14:55.57 | poolio | ok, was wondering if C magically had garbage collection :) |
| 14:56.17 | brlcad | it magically collects when the program terminates ;) |
| 14:56.31 | poolio | well, as long as it thinks the resource won't be reused |
| 14:56.58 | brlcad | right, and for that tool it's pretty much guaranteed .. as are a lot of the command-line tools that perform some specific action |
| 14:57.31 | brlcad | your tool, however, is a little different in that it has a run loop that needs to iterate through samples over and over, potentially for a very long time |
| 14:57.48 | brlcad | g_qa should free it's stuff, don't let that be an example/excuse ;) |
| 14:57.51 | brlcad | shame on lee :) |
| 14:57.58 | poolio | alrighty |
| 14:58.22 | poolio | If I can get a version of beset to work on say... a single primitive I'd probably want to do a lot of optimizing |
| 14:59.01 | brlcad | that will probably be the time to make sure multithreading works, maybe run a sanity profile |
| 14:59.21 | poolio | what's up with the second argument to bu_malloc and bu_free ? |
| 14:59.24 | brlcad | valgrind for memory |
| 14:59.36 | poolio | heh, I love valgrind |
| 14:59.48 | poolio | also: I can test multithreading on my system, i have 2 cores |
| 14:59.52 | brlcad | the second argument is a label |
| 15:00.02 | poolio | but is there a point to that label, and does it have to be unique? |
| 15:00.33 | brlcad | libbu has it's own memory protections and debugging facilities.. you add those labels and with certain flags enabled, you can see a allocation trace where you can find your allocations via those labels |
| 15:00.48 | poolio | alright so it's mainly for debugging? |
| 15:00.54 | brlcad | entirely for debugging |
| 15:01.15 | brlcad | but it should just be something sensible, and the free label should pair up with the alloc label |
| 15:01.28 | poolio | alright |
| 15:02.32 | brlcad | and in case you hadn't read/noticed elsewhere in the docs -- libbu guarantees allocations so you never have to check return pointers from bu_malloc() and friends |
| 15:02.55 | poolio | yeah I read that, it's very nice :) |
| 15:03.16 | poolio | does it exit the program if it can't allocate space? |
| 15:03.26 | brlcad | yes, it will abort |
| 15:04.45 | brlcad | running out of memory is considered a fatal error, and having spagetti code to handle the extremely rare cases where you might be able to recover gracefully doing something OTHER than exit() just isn't worth the complexity it adds |
| 15:06.55 | brlcad | also, there is a way to catch out-of-memory conditions if you really do want to "keep going" .. just by default it will abort |
| 15:07.20 | poolio | cool, good development choice :) |
| 15:09.13 | poolio | brlcad: Is there a way to go from Makefile.am in my directory --> Makefile without running a whole ./configure and adding my directory to the build list? |
| 15:50.59 | brlcad | nope, gotta add it though once you add it, it should rebuild the Makefile after Makefile.am edits |
| 15:52.44 | brlcad | have to add it eventually regardless so might as well be sooner rather than later |
| 15:52.56 | poolio | Yeah I did to my local build |
| 15:54.06 | poolio | wait,w hat do I have to modify besides configure.ac and the creation of the Makefile.am in the directory? |
| 16:02.25 | poolio | ah d'oh, forgot to run autogen.sh |
| 16:09.21 | poolio | Uh oh> unless I broke something, someone broke something in CVS... |
| 16:09.31 | poolio | opennurbs_bezier.cpp:1149: error: 'assert' was not declared in this scope |
| 16:47.42 | IriX64 | poolio.... just needs a #include <assert.h> and it'll be fine. |
| 16:58.41 | poolio | Yeah I added it in a while ago :) |
| 17:07.07 | IriX64 | cool |
| 17:11.08 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/579383 <---- poolio i don't understand this part of configure.ac can you explain? |
| 17:11.34 | IriX64 | my x keeps coming up not detected and i think this is why |
| 17:11.51 | IriX64 | line 3336 of configure.ac |
| 17:24.56 | poolio | So it's running the program specified from 3335 through 3341 |
| 17:25.03 | IriX64 | yes |
| 17:25.22 | poolio | and returning either 1 or 0 based off of whether xmkm is null |
| 17:25.41 | IriX64 | man 7.8.4 detects my x |
| 17:25.43 | poolio | so basically the reason X isn't working is because XNewModifiermap(1) returns NULL instead of an non-NULL value like it should if it was succesful |
| 17:26.05 | poolio | well what's changed since then? |
| 17:26.30 | IriX64 | noithing on my end they changed the check |
| 17:26.39 | IriX64 | err nothing |
| 17:26.39 | poolio | I know, what's changed in the check |
| 17:26.53 | poolio | It could be your version of X doesn't support the test they are trying to perform |
| 17:27.00 | IriX64 | ill have to compare them again |
| 17:27.08 | IriX64 | x11r6 man |
| 17:27.22 | poolio | =P good luck |
| 17:27.32 | IriX64 | thanks :) |
| 17:28.34 | IriX64 | i'll code around it what the heck i know ive got x and the libs detection works so *shrug |
| 17:31.23 | IriX64 | thanks poolio |
| 17:35.58 | poolio | it appears like "< # XXX ugly hack that needs to die |
| 17:36.02 | poolio | died :) |
| 17:40.06 | IriX64 | ahh you compared? i just changed it a bit |
| 17:40.13 | poolio | IriX64: So in the current configure.ac another check was added that tests to see if some Xmodifier stuff is working. I'm guessing that your environment fails that test. |
| 17:40.25 | poolio | run it on your own and see what results you get |
| 17:40.29 | poolio | #include <X11/Xlib.h> |
| 17:40.32 | IriX64 | probably right |
| 17:40.50 | IriX64 | i'm that out of date ? :) |
| 17:41.04 | poolio | I guess |
| 17:41.17 | poolio | I was gonna type out a one line version of the program but i figure you're fully capable of copy/paste |
| 17:41.21 | IriX64 | wonder what will break :) |
| 17:41.24 | IriX64 | am |
| 17:41.41 | IriX64 | not that interested |
| 17:42.10 | IriX64 | just haven't seen return==null |
| 17:42.18 | IriX64 | i dont use that |
| 17:42.54 | poolio | well it's return value==null |
| 17:43.11 | IriX64 | so why bother why not just return 0? |
| 17:43.35 | poolio | well it shortens code. You can do if(value==NULL) return 1; else return 0; |
| 17:43.41 | poolio | it's a lot longer than just return value==NULL; |
| 17:43.55 | IriX64 | sigh |
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| 17:45.05 | poolio | t looks like it should be in x11r6 though |
| 17:45.06 | IriX64 | why not just return value 0 ? 1 |
| 17:45.23 | IriX64 | yeah |
| 17:45.45 | poolio | (condition)? 0 : 1 ? |
| 17:45.48 | poolio | i don't think it works there |
| 17:45.56 | IriX64 | might |
| 17:46.26 | poolio | yeah it does, but it's still longer |
| 17:46.34 | IriX64 | im happy for now it configures |
| 17:46.43 | poolio | Yeah, but what'd you break? |
| 17:46.51 | IriX64 | my ankle :P |
| 17:47.05 | poolio | sorry. feel better. i'm gonna grab some lunch :) |
| 17:47.14 | IriX64 | heh thanks man |
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| 17:54.10 | IriX64 | Laniakea: cheers |
| 17:54.17 | Laniakea | IriX64: cheers |
| 17:54.23 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:55.19 | IriX64 | mmm that was fast, you're not like me, I type with two fingers :) |
| 17:55.38 | poolio | do you really? |
| 17:55.49 | IriX64 | yes never learned to type |
| 17:55.53 | Laniakea | IriX64: do you have ZX Spectrum? |
| 17:56.17 | IriX64 | what on earth is ZXSpectrum? |
| 17:56.23 | Laniakea | nothing |
| 17:56.37 | IriX64 | I know, if you have to ask you don't know :) |
| 17:57.20 | Laniakea | my secret retro dream is to get a casette recorder |
| 17:57.25 | IriX64 | poolio too old to unlearn how i do it now and replace it with a new way |
| 17:58.09 | IriX64 | mine is to transfer all my music from 12" reels to cd someday |
| 17:58.21 | IriX64 | err 10.5" |
| 17:58.36 | poolio | geez |
| 17:58.39 | poolio | never too old! |
| 17:58.50 | IriX64 | heh tel it to my soul |
| 17:58.54 | IriX64 | tell too |
| 17:59.08 | IriX64 | i hate unlearning, its hard |
| 17:59.59 | IriX64 | i'm waiting for a computer I can just tell what to do :) |
| 18:00.46 | IriX64 | cassette recorder, they're available still |
| 18:01.35 | IriX64 | nikki break (no not Nikki Lawerence) I'll be back |
| 18:18.05 | IriX64 | in bu_bomb() I added an fcloseall() to try to protect the database for what it's worth |
| 18:18.28 | IriX64 | just before the abort() |
| 18:40.17 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the BrlCad albumn |
| 18:46.36 | IriX64 | gotta figure a way of putting a bash shell in there so you can run your script tools |
| 18:46.58 | IriX64 | sh should fit the bill |
| 18:54.23 | IriX64 | same url latest build raytracing (1st Pix) and btw is this sort of thing allowed in the channel? |
| 18:56.13 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-157-197-75.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 19:04.32 | IriX64 | mental note, don't start a photon map during a compile :) |
| 19:17.21 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/579607 haha |
| 19:21.44 | IriX64 | mmm exec sh now works |
| 19:21.48 | IriX64 | sweet |
| 19:24.12 | IriX64 | ok i'm ready to build a mug :) |
| 19:29.13 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.178.146) | |
| 19:33.24 | IriX64 | same url brlcad albumn 1st pix |
| 19:45.38 | poolio | IriX64: your webspace is b0rked. |
| 19:47.34 | IriX64 | huh? |
| 19:47.39 | IriX64 | loads here |
| 19:47.53 | IriX64 | whats the problem? |
| 19:47.56 | poolio | XML Parsing Error: syntax error |
| 19:47.56 | poolio | Location: http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/ |
| 19:47.56 | poolio | Line Number 3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"> |
| 19:48.06 | IriX64 | what browser |
| 19:48.17 | poolio | iceweassel (firefox), but it worked fine the other day |
| 19:49.54 | IriX64 | windows firefox loads it fine |
| 19:50.34 | IriX64 | sorry man dunno what to say |
| 19:50.54 | poolio | You don't need to say anything. I have to get back to work :) |
| 19:51.08 | IriX64 | is there a .org that allows png upload? |
| 19:51.20 | IriX64 | me too :) |
| 19:52.25 | IriX64 | try it now |
| 19:54.41 | IriX64 | b0rked eh? now it's borst eat hearty :) |
| 19:56.01 | IriX64 | reminds me must point ppl to http://brlcad.org in the caption field |
| 19:57.24 | IriX64 | there |
| 20:43.43 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874C30.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 20:48.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: move the debugging defines into one place; implement correct ON_Ray copy ctor/asst operator; fix node intersection |
| 20:54.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: |
| 20:54.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: added bounding-box plotting for debugging purposes; fixed memory leak |
| 20:54.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: in shot routine; debugging acne/odd hit count problems (currently not |
| 20:54.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: finished!!); renamed existing debug statements (should just remove them!) |
| 20:56.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fixed bug in bounding box generation: wasn't capturing true dimensions, now using openNURBS BB routine for initial calc; some more debugging stmts |
| 20:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: fixed (? maybe) the bezier clipping algorithm infinite recursion when the clip is too large |
| 21:03.42 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:08.24 | *** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177879089.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:08.29 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 21:34.51 | yukonbob | can anybody tell me why when I make (for example) a vertical post (in post rcc 0 0 0 0 0 100 1) and a wire joining top of post to ground (in wire rcc 0 0 100 100 0 0 0.1), the "wire" doesn't seem to reflect the angle it should be at, and maybe not even the length? (I'm know it's going to be operator error, but I don't know what that error is yet ;) |
| 21:39.35 | IriX64 | mine doesn't have either of those. |
| 21:40.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/579886 heh |
| 21:41.32 | IriX64 | i set the color to peach and it raytraced it sweet |
| 21:42.52 | poolio | IriX64: Have you ever tried a fully functional brl-cad install in a supported environment? |
| 21:43.42 | IriX64 | you calling mine something other than fully functional? |
| 21:44.03 | IriX64 | ill do anything you can do except adrt |
| 21:45.39 | poolio | I just wonder why you are so happy about the software working as expected =) |
| 21:46.03 | IriX64 | for me the worst thing that ever happened to brlcad was this so called upgrade of tcl/tk |
| 21:46.52 | IriX64 | i'm happy cause its doing it in windereze outside the cygwin environment |
| 21:47.20 | IriX64 | cause for rejoicing here :) |
| 21:48.01 | IriX64 | i can distribute this if so inclined |
| 21:48.23 | poolio | Ah yeah, GPLd |
| 21:48.29 | IriX64 | right |
| 21:48.53 | IriX64 | wouldnt charge for it anyway, most fun ive ever had :) |
| 21:49.05 | poolio | wow. dull life ;) |
| 21:49.15 | IriX64 | small things amuse me |
| 21:49.15 | poolio | well back to code... |
| 21:49.19 | IriX64 | me too |
| 21:52.02 | IriX64 | poolio many women are interested in brlcad, I'm simply trying to impress :P |
| 21:52.23 | poolio | IriX64: you wish ;) |
| 21:52.42 | IriX64 | don't we all |
| 21:52.57 | IriX64 | my version of a porche |
| 21:54.36 | poolio | porsche? |
| 22:04.26 | yukonbob | no porch... chicks dig porches. |
| 22:08.16 | IriX64 | ok lamborgini |
| 22:09.00 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the brlcad albumn, i present my cup for inspection :) |
| 22:09.09 | poolio | lamborghini? |
| 22:09.14 | IriX64 | sigh if you can access that page that is |
| 22:09.19 | poolio | IriX64: I still get that damn error |
| 22:09.22 | IriX64 | yes i cant spell |
| 22:09.57 | yukonbob | poolio: is that the xml error? |
| 22:10.05 | poolio | yukonbob: yeah |
| 22:10.17 | yukonbob | heh |
| 22:14.37 | poolio | yukonbob: You work on multithreaded code for brl-cad? |
| 22:18.37 | yukonbob | nope -- I'm new to BRLCAD -- so far I've exposed a malloc issue w/ displacement maps, and have done work (not published) on converting USGS DEMs->dsp data. |
| 22:19.40 | yukonbob | (and complained about the default mged DISPLAY handling, which I think is erroneous... need to point that out to <brlcad> ;) |
| 22:21.51 | IriX64 | maybe.... i should finish cup :) |
| 22:22.40 | IriX64 | yukonbob, if X is up mine connects, if its not it waits. |
| 22:23.01 | IriX64 | if you start with mged -c it asks |
| 22:24.00 | yukonbob | IriX64: right --- we went through this yesterday -- I still think default behaviour is incorrect. |
| 22:24.30 | IriX64 | your saying it should honor the display variable |
| 22:24.40 | yukonbob | like every other X client, yes. |
| 22:25.16 | IriX64 | just a sec what does yours do? |
| 22:26.01 | yukonbob | it doesn't honour the DISPLAY variable... it searches for X servers on it's own, and connects. |
| 22:26.19 | IriX64 | first available i take it |
| 22:26.37 | yukonbob | (it'll try using the DISPLAY variable, but if that doesn't work, it tries searching, that is) |
| 22:27.23 | IriX64 | but thats proper in a network and this thing is networked |
| 22:27.26 | poolio | I can't get mged running on my second display, but I haven't tried anything |
| 22:28.12 | yukonbob | IriX64: I don't think searching for non-explicitly-declared X displays is proper, and in fact it's dangerous |
| 22:28.59 | poolio | My pinky hurts. all the ctrl+keys and shift usage ... has hurt my pinky. :'(. |
| 22:29.09 | poolio | brlcad: Do I have some sort of injury coverage or worker's benefits? hahaha |
| 22:29.10 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:38.22 | yukonbob | brlcad: you online currently? |
| 22:57.10 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.148) | |
| 23:03.32 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 23:36.06 | IriX64 | these people are usually very busy, patience is required |
| 23:36.20 | IriX64 | me i just play :) |
| 23:37.07 | poolio | well, it's there job |
| 23:37.11 | poolio | *their |
| 23:39.59 | IriX64 | thats what im trying to point out |
| 23:40.56 | IriX64 | im still trying to work up the nerve to ask them for stryker.g |
| 23:41.18 | poolio | haha |
| 23:42.00 | IriX64 | how the heck did i put configure.ac in an infinite loop |
| 23:43.11 | IriX64 | err configure |
| 23:46.09 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:46.20 | IriX64 | i guess doing a make bench with system activity is kind of pointless, but lets see what we get |
| 00:10.17 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/580158 there it is |
| 00:15.40 | poolio | Is that with optimized and on what system? |
| 00:16.38 | IriX64 | optimized yes and compiler optimizations on cygwin |
| 00:17.13 | IriX64 | but as i say system was loaded, a compile going etc |
| 00:21.20 | IriX64 | 63 processes running, just checked |
| 00:41.55 | IriX64 | I see, I wouldn't lie to you about this, my system is capable. |
| 01:08.43 | poolio | Hooray, my first project segment works! |
| 01:13.42 | IriX64 | err well you know i can't spell |
| 01:13.58 | poolio | :) |
| 01:16.03 | IriX64 | poolio? what is voxel? |
| 01:17.52 | poolio | a pixel is a point in 2d space, a voxel is a point in 3d space |
| 01:37.20 | IriX64 | thankyou so you somehow represent a voxel using pixels correct? |
| 01:37.53 | poolio | well that's what ray tracing is about |
| 01:38.04 | poolio | in terms of internal representation a voxel is just a vector of 3 values |
| 01:38.15 | poolio | but I don't store voxels, I store rays |
| 01:38.56 | IriX64 | i picture rays as a point moving through whatever dimensional space |
| 01:39.18 | IriX64 | or hitting whatever object in that space |
| 01:40.28 | poolio | yeah that's normally the way it is, but in the context I'm using them a ray is "shot" through the model, and I essentially get a list of partitions of where that ray intersects the model |
| 01:40.46 | poolio | Although I don't have to calculate all that, that's librt :) |
| 01:42.33 | IriX64 | I picture mine as 3d raterization :) |
| 01:42.41 | IriX64 | rasterization too |
| 01:43.17 | IriX64 | ahh i see geometry is your method, thank you |
| 01:43.22 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:47.18 | IriX64 | btw i would add an fcloseall() before the abort in bu_bomb(str) function, if you really want to try to preserve the database |
| 01:50.20 | poolio | Which code are you looking at? |
| 01:50.22 | IriX64 | and if anybodys listening, terra.g a null pointer happens somehow in g_dsp when you do an extract all |
| 01:51.03 | IriX64 | the bu_bomb code in is it bomb.c in util lib |
| 01:51.15 | poolio | oh alright, I thought you were referencing beset :P |
| 01:51.26 | IriX64 | no man sewage :) |
| 01:51.39 | poolio | sorry, vetoed by brlcad. complain to him ;) |
| 01:51.54 | IriX64 | sigh pulled rank again ;) |
| 02:18.20 | poolio | dinner time. I worked 12 hours today...why!?!? |
| 02:18.34 | IriX64 | so youd appreciate a break :) |
| 02:19.36 | poolio | 30:40 in 3 days. eek. |
| 02:20.02 | IriX64 | 5 seconds in a month (I'm a sloth) :) |
| 02:21.30 | IriX64 | I'm also a glutton for punishment, i'm trying to compile 7.8 and 7.10 at the same time:) |
| 03:08.21 | brlcad | yukonbob: you specified 100 0 0 for rcc wire's height vector, which means -- point it in the X direction 100 units |
| 03:11.13 | brlcad | IriX64: seriously, cut it out with the comments on the build if you're not going to work with me to resolve the issues (referring to comment you made earlier regarding 'so called upgrade' as that has nothing to do with your build problems) |
| 03:11.47 | IriX64 | farther down it does the undefs are in tk |
| 03:11.49 | brlcad | i asked you to leave the build alone too, so that we can proceed one issue at a time before you go all edit-happy on configure.ac too |
| 03:12.05 | IriX64 | that tree is alone |
| 03:14.42 | IriX64 | the undefs prevent bwish and also mged from getting built |
| 03:15.38 | brlcad | the information is way too out of context, i've no idea what you're referring to at this point |
| 03:15.51 | IriX64 | lets let it lie ok? |
| 03:16.10 | brlcad | and it's irrelevant -- there were/are other build issues in front of it that need to be addressed |
| 03:16.45 | brlcad | if the earlier build errors are not fixed correctly, *everything* afterwards is suspect and unreliable |
| 03:17.00 | IriX64 | ok |
| 03:17.36 | brlcad | even if it happens to "get past" the error or masks it or whatever .. if it's not properly fixed then the game is over |
| 03:18.14 | IriX64 | agreed do you still want to pursue it? |
| 03:18.21 | brlcad | so i committed a fix for that windows tk header issue -- where does the build stop next? |
| 03:19.13 | brlcad | yes, i want to work on getting your default system to compile completely first |
| 03:19.21 | IriX64 | perhaps we should abandon my effort tkwindefault.h is no where to be found and i cant get past it without it |
| 03:20.07 | brlcad | huh? |
| 03:20.17 | brlcad | you said you have a pristine checkout, yes? |
| 03:20.35 | IriX64 | as of last night as stated |
| 03:20.42 | brlcad | did you run the steps I said earlier today? |
| 03:20.54 | brlcad | i.e. update your sources and recompile |
| 03:21.02 | IriX64 | i stopped after last night you said to wait |
| 03:21.17 | brlcad | and then this morning, I gave you the next step |
| 03:21.28 | IriX64 | missed that just a sec |
| 03:21.58 | brlcad | 09:36 <@brlcad> IriX64: cvs update configure.ac && ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make |
| 03:22.27 | IriX64 | sorry missed that ill try now |
| 03:25.05 | IriX64 | logging in |
| 03:29.39 | brlcad | don't really need a play-by-play -- just what's the next error ;) |
| 03:29.51 | IriX64 | right |
| 03:29.57 | IriX64 | :) |
| 03:30.40 | IriX64 | btw i'm installing a forced build right now just to see |
| 03:32.52 | brlcad | yukonbob: if you make your wire's height vector actually point back downwards (remember hs trigonometry), you'll get the desired angle; something like 100 0 -100 for example for the height vector |
| 03:44.24 | IriX64 | making ill be right back |
| 03:55.25 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 04:06.02 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/580581 your next error:) |
| 04:13.38 | brlcad | that's good, thanks |
| 04:14.01 | poolio | hey brlcad |
| 04:14.10 | poolio | brlcad: I have working code if you'd like to see! :D |
| 04:14.51 | brlcad | if you were committing frequently, I would already be seeing ;) |
| 04:15.01 | brlcad | but yes, i'd love to see :) |
| 04:15.48 | brlcad | don't be afraid to commit, and to commit _frequently_ .. fluidly, as you get something working, commit, new feature, commit, etc |
| 04:15.52 | poolio | brlcad: ok ok, i was cleaning it up a bit before commit |
| 04:16.07 | brlcad | so get it working, commit, clean up, commit, etc ;) |
| 04:16.56 | brlcad | lots of commits is a good thing, and *much* easier to review both in the moment and 10 years down the road |
| 04:17.24 | poolio | ok ok |
| 04:20.58 | brlcad | also, feel free to commit to other parts of the code if you run into things (like the missing assert.h you found earlier) |
| 04:21.20 | brlcad | or if you just want to improve/clean up, whatever floats your boat ;) |
| 04:22.08 | brlcad | they get caught as the other platforms are tested -- just happened to work for that dev (jason) that he didn't need that header on his configuration for some reason |
| 04:33.36 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 04:42.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: added working ray trace comparison based on linear difference of the partition |
| 04:44.38 | poolio | brlcad: ^^voila. sorry it took so long I was trying to fix a race condition that developed for i dont know what reason |
| 04:48.17 | brlcad | woot :) |
| 05:02.16 | poolio | brlcad: I had a question regarding allocating cpu resources: do I need to call rt_init_resource and bn_rand_init for everytime a raytrace a new object? |
| 05:04.07 | brlcad | iirc, no you don't -- should be able to call them just once per binary invocation |
| 05:06.14 | poolio | alright, it takes a pointer to rt_i and I change that with every new object, so I was just wondering |
| 05:07.56 | brlcad | hm, then don't quote me on that |
| 05:08.06 | brlcad | lemme look |
| 05:08.31 | poolio | thanks |
| 05:18.25 | poolio | brlcad: so if I run rt_clean on an already set-up rt_i and resources I do not need to re-init the resource? |
| 05:19.37 | poolio | if you look in the current code, I extract the rt_i, re-alloate resources, do stuff with the object, then run rt_clean ... and repeat |
| 05:19.37 | brlcad | no |
| 05:19.48 | brlcad | that sounds right |
| 05:20.02 | poolio | wait, so do or don't re-allocate resources, don't> |
| 05:20.03 | poolio | ? |
| 05:22.00 | brlcad | what do you mean by that? |
| 05:22.13 | brlcad | struct resource? |
| 05:23.27 | poolio | Easiest to see in the code, but I extract an rt_i from the database, run rt_init_resource and bn_rand_init for each CPU, run rt_prep_parallel, raytrace the object, and then run rt_clean(rt_i) |
| 05:24.04 | poolio | my question is do I need to run r_init_resource and bn_rand_init once (on each cpu) for the whole program, or do I need to run it every time I extract a new rt_i from the database |
| 05:24.25 | brlcad | every time you get a new rt_i |
| 05:24.30 | poolio | alright thanks |
| 05:24.38 | brlcad | but clean the old rt_i first like you're doing |
| 05:24.41 | poolio | k |
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| 06:02.45 | poolio | gnite zZz |
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| 06:40.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: moved global vars to fstate and general cleanup |
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| 08:17.25 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 08:25.30 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: post/cable heh -- my bad -- I was thinking of coordinates for second set of params, not vectors :P |
| 10:22.12 | *** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p5487565E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 11:34.24 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-86-90.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 11:34.29 | thing0 | hey guys! |
| 11:34.34 | thing0 | got internet access down here |
| 11:34.39 | thing0 | have to use dialup |
| 11:34.42 | thing0 | but at least I got it |
| 11:34.43 | thing0 | hehe |
| 11:34.55 | thing0 | hey brlcad |
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| 16:00.41 | IriX64 | brlcad: sorry man machine check exception |
| 16:06.17 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/cG0YgV19.html but this came up |
| 16:06.55 | IriX64 | our tree is still untouched this is another copy |
| 16:09.03 | IriX64 | don't worry about the -noinhibit-exec switch thats just a way to keep the build process going so you can see all the errors and warnings in the project |
| 16:27.23 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.145) | |
| 16:58.52 | IriX64 | bwahha the handicapped build is installing :) |
| 17:00.48 | IriX64 | wonder if make bench will run on this |
| 17:02.33 | IriX64 | don't freaking beleive it its doing it |
| 17:12.09 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8dBwwd81.html haha sweet benchmark |
| 17:21.43 | IriX64 | no fbserv :) |
| 17:22.05 | IriX64 | err :( |
| 17:22.48 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 17:23.04 | poolio | grrrrr |
| 17:23.45 | IriX64 | christ,everbody run :) |
| 17:24.31 | poolio | internet went down, so I looked at the extension cable I had on the coaxial cable and a mouse had chewed through it. :( |
| 17:25.17 | IriX64 | i take it your cat had fried mouse or dinner then :) |
| 17:25.24 | IriX64 | err for too |
| 18:26.07 | poolio | why does return not return...? |
| 19:15.09 | poolio | brlcad: If I am at some sort of intermediary step in the code and I have a file I'm using to test a "module" of the program, should I commit the file used to run/test the module ? |
| 19:16.12 | brlcad | up to you for testing code, more of question of whether it'd be of any use to anyone watching and/or will it be useful a year from now when it's all said and done (even for just testing) |
| 19:17.07 | brlcad | system integration tests are desirable .. running your tool and expecting certain behavior |
| 19:18.20 | brlcad | we've not gone down the road of white-/black-box testing or unit testing so much |
| 19:18.51 | brlcad | a few of the tools do, and include testing routines w/ test code, but most are system level or non-existent |
| 19:19.02 | brlcad | so yeah.. whatever works for you ;) |
| 19:36.53 | poolio | brlcad: Well in the near future the tool will probably no longer work, it's just that at this step that other file is used as a "driver" to the module |
| 19:51.17 | poolio | brlcad: I opted to leave it out of the repository, but if you're curious in testing I can send it to you |
| 19:51.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.h fitness.c): modularized fitness functions |
| 20:11.15 | brlcad | only thing really missing are the build files so I can test-compile here ;) |
| 20:14.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: annotate a couple of the bugs that dwayne reported regarding facedef and permute not coordinating with the display properly |
| 20:14.52 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:15.10 | poolio_ | sorry brlcad, thought mmy laptop was plugged in but ... |
| 20:17.22 | poolio | brlcad: so can I update configure.ac? |
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| 20:23.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: more bugs from dwayne's issues sheet including the return of the annoying cursor box character capture. also note BoT editing bug (units always mm), overlap tool inefficiency, and snap-to-grid issues. |
| 20:24.04 | brlcad | poolio: you can update anything, the commits are reviewed by myself and others |
| 20:24.16 | brlcad | if there's an issue, I'd let you know, but don't be shy ;) |
| 20:25.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (Makefile.am beset.c): added build files and test program |
| 20:26.27 | poolio | oh oops, two more |
| 20:28.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/gtools/Makefile.am): updated build files for beset |
| 20:30.02 | poolio | brlcad: Alright, should be good to go =) |
| 20:32.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: move now takes a const pointer to the pt |
| 20:34.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix another knot issue with openNURBS; adjust brep tolerances (this needs to be looked at in more depth) |
| 20:35.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: turn off some debugging in the converter |
| 20:36.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: implement a region annointment command where the user can turn an assembly into a region and change all lower or higher regions into combinations |
| 20:38.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: make brep_hit a value object (no dynamic alloc); now dropping hit points if they don't fall within subsurface bbox; turned off bbox plotting |
| 20:39.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: validate primitives during export so that it is guaranteed that illegal primitives will not be written to file; preserve an arb8 as an arb8 (instead of writing as arb6 or arb5) and similarly for the other arb# sizes |
| 20:41.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fix another knot-related bug; remove debugging output; adjust flatness tolerance for small curves |
| 20:42.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_brep.cpp: adjust tolerance values in validity check - openNURBS was not using the values specified by the user (it was using hardcoded tolerances...) - this may need to be investigated further |
| 20:43.50 | brlcad | poolio: coolio |
| 20:44.47 | poolio | brlcad: did it work for you? |
| 20:48.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Implement an optical shader for the new pixelated military camouflage style |
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| 21:37.03 | poolio | alright i'm out for the night. gonna start working on the GA tomororw :D |
| 21:42.52 | yukonbob | away |
| 21:43.03 | yukonbob | ww |
| 21:47.46 | yukonbob | brlcad: did you read discussion of DISPLAY variables and how mged attaches? |
| 21:53.00 | brlcad | yukonbob: yes, I did and if I understood you correctly -- it wasn't intentional that it keeps trying |
| 21:53.08 | brlcad | it is intention that it tries :0 if display is not set |
| 21:56.25 | brlcad | and that was merely a support balance decision .. there are more users that try to run mged without ever having set display (particularly common on Mac OS X) than there are X11 users that intentionally unset it for some reason but have it running on :0 |
| 21:57.47 | brlcad | i'll look (or you're welcome to look) into patching it up so that it obeys display when it's set regardless of :0 working |
| 21:58.01 | brlcad | should just be a couple lines |
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| 22:00.17 | yukonbob | that sounds good -- I don't know how far is looks, or if it's only the single :0.0 that it looks for (that's actually all that I'm running), but I can take a look... |
| 22:01.13 | yukonbob | as long as there's not some other reason for having it, but _I_ can't think of a good reason to have it, unless there's some internal (to ARL) reason? |
| 22:17.41 | brlcad | depends what the it is when you say by having "it" .. again checking :0 if display is unset is intentional and will preferably stay -- what wasn't intentional is trying :0 if display is set but doesn't work |
| 22:19.06 | brlcad | there's no reason really for the latter other than maybe just "try really hard to show something on a local X display when all else fails" .. which wasn't the intent |
| 22:29.15 | yukonbob | here's the scenarios I tested: |
| 22:29.27 | yukonbob | my real DISPLAY=:0.0 |
| 22:32.36 | yukonbob | setting DISPLAY=192.168.99.99:0.0 (non-existant) seemed to try that, then still connected to :0.0 |
| 22:34.16 | yukonbob | setting DISPLAY='' also connected to :0.0 -- and I personally think this is an error... if somebody is running X Window System on Mac (or Windows, or anywhere), their display should be set... so from an xterm for example, anybody could run mged and have is appear on the proper display |
| 22:36.29 | yukonbob | mged picking display's to run on that are not listed in DISPLAY is overstepping it's responsibilities... |
| 23:06.07 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565739.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:37.17 | brlcad | yukonbob: I entirely believe you that it's falling back to :0 .. I was just saying that that part wasn't intentional -- the intent was for systems were DISPLAY isn't set at all (i.e. running in Mac OS X terminal mostly) |
| 23:39.16 | brlcad | and not empty, but actually unset (which is a bit tricky to test for and likely not accounting for empty either) :) |
| 23:39.39 | yukonbob | OK -- I think we're on same page ;) |
| 23:40.18 | brlcad | probably not entirely, I get the feeling that you'd like it to fail even try if display isn't set too |
| 23:40.34 | brlcad | but the pages are at least facing/close ;) |
| 23:40.35 | yukonbob | Is there a native (ie: Aqua) build for MacOS X? (or a build for MacOS Classic for that matter), or do/have the Macs always required an X Window System installation? |
| 23:40.57 | brlcad | there's not yet a native build |
| 23:41.08 | brlcad | that's part of the reason for the upgrade to 8.5 |
| 23:41.18 | brlcad | a ton of AquaTk stuff was fixed in libtk |
| 23:41.34 | yukonbob | nice... |
| 23:41.41 | brlcad | so far, though, our mac dists have always required X11 on os x |
| 23:42.15 | brlcad | which is exceptionally unfortunate towards the mac ethos.. that's by far the #1 support issue .. how to run brl-cad on a mac |
| 23:43.09 | brlcad | no icon? X-eleve-what? command thingie type what? display? terminal? xterm? where's my icon? |
| 23:43.16 | yukonbob | ok -- I think I _would_ like to fail if there's no DISPLAY set...(ie: running from vt console...) If somebody is running it from w/i their running X11 session (ie: from xterm) they'll have a working DISPLAY, if they're trying to launch from bar on bottom... they'd need a wrapper script that has default :0.0 perhaps? |
| 23:43.47 | yukonbob | ^^ how about a mac-specific wrapper script |
| 23:44.31 | brlcad | actually, several open up terminal and try running from there .. sometimes X11 is running, sometimes it's not even installed, .. one of the most common, though was starting X11 yet typing mged in Terminal (where DISPLAY isn't set) |
| 23:44.53 | yukonbob | that'd be brlcad.runme, pulled into the launch bar... #!/bin/sh; env DISPLAY=:0.0 brlcad.exe |
| 23:45.24 | brlcad | that would be a good solution, though there is no brlcad.exe :) |
| 23:45.46 | yukonbob | you get my point though ;) |
| 23:46.10 | yukonbob | btw, do you know anything about X11 BigFonts? |
| 23:47.05 | brlcad | hm, as a proper noun, not really |
| 23:48.00 | brlcad | a little about "big fonts" in X11, though .. xfontsel your font, and go to town ;) |
| 23:48.25 | brlcad | ah, huh.. wierd |
| 23:48.35 | yukonbob | 1 sec... |
| 23:48.56 | yukonbob | bash-3.2$ pl-X < bridge_plot.plot |
| 23:48.56 | yukonbob | pl-X: Can't open font |
| 23:49.17 | brlcad | source says it should be trying "vtsingle" |
| 23:49.49 | brlcad | which is a bizzare default.... |
| 23:50.00 | brlcad | hard-coded nonetheless |
| 23:50.12 | yukonbob | OK -- I was just assuming Bigfont was issue, because I see string: |
| 23:50.22 | yukonbob | "25509 1 pl-X read(0x3, 0xbfbfe54c, 0x20) = 32 |
| 23:50.22 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.25 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.28 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.30 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.33 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.35 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:50.38 | yukonbob | " |
| 23:50.43 | yukonbob | ...and don't have loaded, nor had I heard of it before... |
| 23:51.08 | brlcad | sounds like some XFree internal symbol perhaps |
| 23:51.20 | brlcad | did it crash on you or just say can't open? |
| 23:52.00 | yukonbob | xorg has lib for it too -- I've only just started looking into it, but might be mechanism for sharedmem for fonts... I'm just not clear (and might not even pursue it if it's vtsingle issue). |
| 23:53.04 | yukonbob | just said couldn't open... |
| 23:53.56 | yukonbob | to tagent once more ;) ... |
| 23:54.01 | yukonbob | *tangent |
| 23:54.13 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:54.14 | yukonbob | are there font method in mged? |
| 23:54.23 | yukonbob | *methods |
| 23:54.41 | brlcad | should probably obey some -font option or something similar and default to 'fixed' or '6x10' or something |
| 23:55.17 | brlcad | there are means to set/change the fonts if that's what you mean |
| 23:55.27 | yukonbob | ie: for using fonts in renderings. |
| 23:55.50 | brlcad | File->Preferences->Fonts for changing various aspects of mged |
| 23:56.03 | brlcad | ah, text on renderings |
| 23:56.06 | yukonbob | (in title font "my_cool_font.ttf" "This is my title") |
| 23:56.07 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565739.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:56.21 | brlcad | yes and no, mostly no |
| 23:56.26 | brlcad | that's been a desire for quite a while |
| 23:56.59 | brlcad | yes in the sense that there's a way to do it, but it's really a round-about way that is rather overly complicated |
| 23:57.29 | brlcad | yes you can get to NYC from Miami on a unicycle... but you probably don't want to |
| 23:58.15 | yukonbob | alright --- I'll leave fonts at that for now ;) |
| 23:59.30 | yukonbob | if I supply patches, should I just mail them to you, or post here, or ?? |
| 00:01.49 | brlcad | if you post just one patch to the patches tracker, I'd just as well give you commit access so long as you've read the hacking file |
| 00:02.21 | yukonbob | where's that document? |
| 00:02.24 | brlcad | all commits are reviewed by myself and others, so the more the merrier ;) |
| 00:02.31 | brlcad | new devs welcome |
| 00:02.35 | brlcad | it's in the top-level |
| 00:02.37 | brlcad | HACKING |
| 00:02.49 | brlcad | that's the basic dev guide |
| 00:03.53 | brlcad | nothing is set in stone, but it at least lays down some consistency structure |
| 00:04.49 | brlcad | intentionally do avoid some of the more mundane "bikeshed" issues |
| 00:06.02 | IriX64 | and i suppose if i bitch long enough you'll ask me why I don't fix it myself ;) |
| 00:06.21 | brlcad | IriX64: in your case, no I wouldn't :) |
| 00:06.42 | IriX64 | good just so you know I'm *not capable :) |
| 00:07.34 | brlcad | now is an opportune time for devs though as the activity is such that even my ability to review all commits isn't swamped yet (such that new devs couldn't be added without peer-review delegation) |
| 00:08.04 | IriX64 | no...thanks :) |
| 00:09.32 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/IwLSo887.html heh look at the cflags |
| 00:10.24 | brlcad | IriX64: not bad, that will get you better performance |
| 00:10.50 | brlcad | it's something that would be nice to do automatically some day when --enable-optimized is turned on too |
| 00:10.57 | brlcad | at least some variation |
| 00:11.09 | IriX64 | should i'm hoping it works actually |
| 00:11.17 | brlcad | IriX64: there are other gcc flags that will give you even more performance that you might want to test out as well |
| 00:11.51 | IriX64 | thankyou ill look :) |
| 00:11.52 | brlcad | given how much you like to compile and run the benchmarks, that certainly be useful to figure out -- what's the absolute best performance you can get simply out of tweaking compilation CFLAGS |
| 00:12.23 | IriX64 | have to disable debug and symbols tho if you really want it to scream |
| 00:12.47 | IriX64 | i like debug on :) |
| 00:13.10 | brlcad | another set of flags are the ones for alignment, i.e. -falign-functions, -falign-jumps, -falign-labels, -falign-loops, etc .. those can boost performance particularly well and in concert with other flags |
| 00:13.28 | IriX64 | btw i was wrong flushall() isn't needed fcloseall() does that too |
| 00:13.42 | brlcad | that was actually an amusing discovery -- disabling debug without turning on alignment can actually slow it down |
| 00:14.03 | IriX64 | heh ill play |
| 00:14.03 | IriX64 | don't mind waiting 50 minutes per |
| 00:14.16 | brlcad | IriX64: abort() closes any descriptors that weren't closed too |
| 00:14.37 | IriX64 | never used abort so i don't know |
| 00:18.14 | yukonbob | brlcad: rock'n'roll... I'll let you get back to your work, and we can catch-up later for commit access (is cvs, svn, other?) |
| 00:20.53 | brlcad | cvs at the moment, svn before the end of the year |
| 00:21.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: use 'fixed' font by default instead of the obscure 'vtsingle' font.. should really have a cmd-line option to set/override |
| 00:21.46 | brlcad | hm, now how to work pl-X .. haven't used it in years |
| 00:22.02 | yukonbob | pl-X < my_plotfile.plot |
| 00:22.29 | brlcad | hrmph.. flashes my plot file then exits |
| 00:23.34 | brlcad | ah, well now that's stupid... |
| 00:24.03 | brlcad | it just sleeps for a second then exits |
| 00:24.12 | yukonbob | heh -- cheap |
| 00:24.13 | brlcad | and assumes single-buffered |
| 00:33.05 | yukonbob | heh -- no kidding? ;) What are you running IriX64? |
| 00:33.16 | IriX64 | winaxe at the moment |
| 00:33.58 | IriX64 | shows the geometry in color but bring up a frame buffer and the graphic screen and command screen go black |
| 00:34.43 | IriX64 | touch one of those other screens and they revert to normal tho |
| 00:36.28 | IriX64 | nice online help tho |
| 00:37.39 | IriX64 | twingy was right i know nothing about lighting, all my havoc photonmaps come out sorta dark |
| 00:40.52 | IriX64 | doh...it's taking so long cause you started a compile and forgot about it goof :) |
| 00:41.54 | IriX64 | http://www.winaxe.com/x-windows-for-windows.html |
| 00:42.00 | IriX64 | there yukonbob |
| 00:48.30 | IriX64 | still have fits trying to cut from the xside and pasting to the windows side |
| 00:51.10 | yukonbob | winaxe looks like an x server, not a window manager... |
| 00:51.10 | yukonbob | how long does evaluation last? |
| 00:51.29 | IriX64 | thats what it is and a whole lot more |
| 00:51.41 | IriX64 | hasn't expired yet and ive had it a month |
| 00:53.21 | IriX64 | whup oh well :) |
| 01:00.49 | IriX64 | demo time is up oh well |
| 01:02.30 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 01:04.17 | IriX64 | yukonbob it's demo ware shuts down on you after i think 60 minutes |
| 01:05.12 | yukonbob | IriX64: so did you buy your copy? |
| 01:05.16 | yukonbob | brlcad: the built-in regex in brlcad... is it just henry spencers lib, or ?? |
| 01:09.38 | brlcad | yes it is |
| 01:11.11 | brlcad | everything in src/other is really just provided for compilation convenience so users don't have to go download anything -- using pre-installed or build-system installed libraries are generally preferred of course |
| 01:11.53 | brlcad | libregex is an interesting case, though -- have found several regex implementations that perform _considerably_ slower than spencer's earlier 90 |
| 01:12.11 | yukonbob | right -- I'm just going through all this on my NetBSD system to try to build dependencies w/i the pkgsrc system, and keep everything "admin-able" w/i the pgksrc framework... |
| 01:12.20 | brlcad | 90's implementation .. or buggy even, where spencers has no problem (with massive expressions for example) |
| 01:13.22 | brlcad | yukonbob: ideally, you should/could get it to work with --disable-almost-everything (and maybe then add --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build since they're pre-release) |
| 01:13.46 | yukonbob | brlcad: I'm still playing w/ 7.8, since it's not dealing w/ 8.5... |
| 01:15.25 | yukonbob | I use tcl/tk on my system anyway... if I wasn't worried about collisions, I'd just install the 8.5... |
| 01:15.26 | brlcad | i really wish we didn't have to upgrade to 8.5, it's the first time in recent memory (ever?) that we've gone to a pre-release version, usually hanging behind a few versions |
| 01:15.45 | brlcad | but getting AquaTk working is a bit of a high-priority item |
| 01:16.10 | yukonbob | I guess I could install a chroot environ for brlcad and go w/ 8.5... |
| 01:16.27 | brlcad | the problem you'll run into in 7.8 is that we actually required a custom tk |
| 01:16.40 | brlcad | brl-cad included several tk mods that were being integrated upstream into tk |
| 01:16.49 | brlcad | new canvas widget in particular |
| 01:17.48 | brlcad | the process with the tcl/tk folks, however, just become too much of a burden so much of that code has been rewritten, decoupled, and/or removed, so that we can build with a clean tcl/tk again -- none of those changes are in 7.8 though iirc |
| 01:18.13 | brlcad | that's functionality limited to just one feature of mged, but it means you'll probably have to have a patch to successfully compile against a system tcl/tk |
| 01:19.44 | yukonbob | ahh --- that makes sense --- I witnessed what you were talking about, but didn't finish looking into it... |
| 01:19.58 | yukonbob | 7.10 removes that restriction? |
| 01:20.15 | brlcad | our tk enhancements are the predominant reason why we're still not integrated into the various package management systems like ports, apt, fink, etc, and part of the motivation for much of the changes in 7.10 |
| 01:20.43 | brlcad | yeah, latest head removes that restriction and builds cleanly now |
| 01:22.01 | yukonbob | alright -- well, I've got 7.8.4 building on my machine, but using it's (necessarily) custom tcl/tk... but I'm going to move to playing w/ 7.10 then... tcl/tk 8.5 is going to have to make it to the system sometime anyway... |
| 01:23.22 | yukonbob | what's the feature of mged that required the core-patch to tk? |
| 01:24.06 | brlcad | the Sketch Editor |
| 01:24.22 | brlcad | it draws on a custom Bezier Canvas widget |
| 01:24.36 | yukonbob | right -- /me explored that briefly... |
| 01:25.05 | brlcad | that's the item in the TODO remaining for 7.10.2 release that I've left to deal with |
| 01:25.22 | yukonbob | there's currently no sketch editor? |
| 01:25.24 | brlcad | as it's presently just turned off -- need to make it use a different canvas widget |
| 01:25.48 | yukonbob | OK -- so sketching fucntionality is temporarily missing in 7.10.x, correct? |
| 01:25.48 | brlcad | currently on head -- should be restored prior to release, but I have to code that up |
| 01:26.21 | brlcad | in 7.10.1 yes |
| 01:34.02 | brlcad | ``Erik: just fyi, a particular server is under massive woes at the moment .. went nutty and eventually locked up |
| 01:34.53 | brlcad | it was having a helluva time scrubbing .. massive delays and crashed or was rebooted this morning, and spent most of the day fscking only to later lock up hard |
| 01:36.49 | ``Erik | um |
| 01:36.55 | ``Erik | bring it up single user mode |
| 01:36.55 | Twingy | you guys haven't thrown that in the garbage can yet? |
| 01:36.59 | ``Erik | disable background fsck |
| 01:37.08 | Twingy | it's ancient |
| 01:37.09 | brlcad | massive woes with services after the earlier reboot too, many libraries were apparently updated without the tools being rebuilt so they all fail with missing library errors (this was before the crash) |
| 01:37.10 | ``Erik | that's what kills it |
| 01:37.25 | ``Erik | huh |
| 01:37.29 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 01:37.34 | ``Erik | didja world it? |
| 01:37.38 | ``Erik | um |
| 01:37.40 | brlcad | i was in the midst of rebuilding smbd when it locked up |
| 01:37.54 | ``Erik | I think the only big consumers left are us and bills guys |
| 01:38.14 | brlcad | yeah, bills guys were up in arms as he's got pjt breathing down at him for some data |
| 01:38.28 | brlcad | I'll be in early early tomorrow to hopefully upline it |
| 01:38.46 | ``Erik | um, you can mount it ro |
| 01:38.49 | ``Erik | to get the data to 'em |
| 01:39.27 | brlcad | well at the moment, it aint doing anything since it locked up -- didn't have time to deal with the crash today |
| 01:40.02 | ``Erik | um, when ti's booting, and hits the |/-\ scroller, hit backspace or something, do "boot -s" to get single user mode |
| 01:40.12 | ``Erik | then you can mount stuff up, etc, get the production need off |
| 01:40.24 | brlcad | I can manage, but thought you might like to know in case you try to get in .. 2 is still scrubbing btw (with curiously/exceptionally low cpu/io usage) |
| 01:40.48 | brlcad | where's background fsck stashed? |
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| 02:02.30 | IriX64 | rotten cat keeps pressing my reboot button while crying for milk :) |
| 02:03.15 | IriX64 | yukonbob if you're interested in windows xservers xwin32 is pretty decent too |
| 02:03.26 | IriX64 | commercial also |
| 02:03.57 | IriX64 | also mi_x 4.2 |
| 02:04.11 | IriX64 | and my fav cygwin-x |
| 02:12.26 | ``Erik | /etc/rc.conf has the inf0z, um, it's a feature to regular fsck |
| 02:12.33 | ``Erik | -F vs -B or something |
| 02:13.00 | ``Erik | background fsck requires soft updates turned on, so if you have it unmounted, you COULD use tunefs to disable softupdates |
| 02:13.07 | ``Erik | I believe you can turn them back on with the fs live |
| 02:13.40 | ``Erik | (softupdates is essentially a smarter operation order, the theory being that by doing the ops in a concurrency friendly order, a journaled FS is unnecessary) |
| 02:14.24 | brlcad | how long does the fsck usually take? |
| 02:14.41 | ``Erik | straight fsck without softupdates (fg mode) is maybe 1-1.5 hours |
| 02:15.18 | brlcad | i might just bring it up single user then, do the fsck, then get them their data |
| 02:15.37 | brlcad | then fool around with any fixings |
| 02:15.42 | ``Erik | that'd be the best way, I think |
| 02:15.59 | ``Erik | I'll try to keep half an eye on irc, or you have my cellphone # |
| 02:16.15 | brlcad | you're on vacation, I ain't calling |
| 02:16.22 | brlcad | that's just wrong |
| 02:16.32 | ``Erik | aight *shrug* |
| 02:16.36 | brlcad | :) |
| 02:16.37 | ``Erik | if you get terribly stuck, though *shrug* |
| 02:16.47 | ``Erik | I seriously doubt you will |
| 02:16.52 | ``Erik | but *shrug* |
| 02:17.15 | brlcad | maybe someone would call the MPs and say there's something explosive inside the case |
| 02:17.40 | ``Erik | my big plans for tomorrow are to make pretzels from scratch *shrug* |
| 02:17.50 | ``Erik | heh, different kind of "blow up" |
| 02:18.14 | brlcad | the server's .. uh .. down. permanently. |
| 02:18.34 | ``Erik | up... way up.. in many pieces... |
| 02:20.39 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/PujJym17.html dunno if i should paste stuff like this |
| 02:21.31 | IriX64 | if xwin32 doesn't time out on me ill post the results on the blog |
| 02:26.30 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn first pix |
| 02:28.16 | IriX64 | should test some of the other lighting models i guess |
| 02:28.19 | poolio | brlcad: Tomorrow I'm probably going to be researching/designing the GA framework. If I write / sketch stuff by hand, is it fine if I just keep that to myself and use it or would you rather be able to see my progress/ideas |
| 02:46.15 | brlcad | IriX64: not unless you intend to fix them :) |
| 02:46.44 | brlcad | sub millimeter overlaps are not cause for concern regardless, you can quell the reporting with a command line option |
| 02:47.21 | IriX64 | the lighting models? |
| 02:47.38 | IriX64 | fix them? snort! |
| 02:47.41 | brlcad | poolio: your development workflow is your own .. just the code should be very well documented as to what is going on, even if you need to resort to ascii art :) |
| 02:47.48 | brlcad | IriX64: no, the overlaps |
| 02:49.47 | poolio | brlcad: so you won't be worried if you don't see code? (my main question was proving that I was working( |
| 02:50.01 | IriX64 | the overlap tool is capable of that but i don't know what i'm doing with it |
| 02:50.45 | IriX64 | err gui overlap tool |
| 02:51.05 | IriX64 | ill show you it wait a few minutes |
| 02:54.10 | brlcad | poolio: ahh, no, that's fine |
| 02:54.28 | IriX64 | the blog brlcad albumn tool1 & tool2 |
| 02:54.39 | poolio | brlcad: ok. I'll try to get the main framework outline done and include that as part of my project writeup and email that to you tomorrow |
| 02:55.03 | brlcad | IriX64: I don't want/need to see the overlap tool .. I know more than well enough what all of mged looks like ... |
| 02:55.25 | IriX64 | sorry thought you expressed an interest :) |
| 02:55.26 | brlcad | poolio: sounds great |
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| 03:06.08 | IriX64 | watch it poolio he'll send the policio after you if it's not proper :) |
| 03:06.43 | IriX64 | maybe that should be mpios :) |
| 03:07.29 | IriX64 | brlcad got time to tend to my build problem or should we shelve that for now? |
| 03:12.40 | IriX64 | same blog same albumn compare to the native windows version. |
| 03:12.45 | IriX64 | tool3 |
| 03:13.46 | IriX64 | that bob@mako is good :) |
| 03:16.28 | IriX64 | prefer the cygwin port myself ;) |
| 03:20.42 | brlcad | IriX64: i'm working on it |
| 03:22.49 | poolio | brlcad: did you try running the beset fitness test prog? I just want to make sure I added it to cvs right |
| 03:24.36 | poolio | brlcad: also when you were saying variable length genomes were difficult, had you ever looked at genetic programming? Apparently GAs and GPs aren't just synonyms, GPs are tailored to run on trees (of variable sizes) |
| 03:38.48 | IriX64 | I'm reloading the IriX64 blog with past effortts,designs,disasters :) |
| 03:39.40 | IriX64 | The IriX32 blog is only half of me :) |
| 03:45.08 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
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| 05:25.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: |
| 05:25.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: big update/enhancements so that pl-X is actually functional and useful. if the |
| 05:25.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: last command in a plot file is an erase command, don't do it (wth show a black |
| 05:25.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: window). most importantly, keep the window up until the user presses a key. |
| 05:25.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: additional goodness, if we're on Mac OS X, make sure X11 has focus. ignore |
| 05:25.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: newlines in the file for kicks. |
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| 09:04.43 | fressbaer | hello |
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| 11:26.52 | thing0 | hey all |
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| 11:41.28 | thing0 | hey elite01 |
| 11:41.29 | thing0 | sup? |
| 11:41.36 | elite01 | home! :) |
| 11:41.39 | elite01 | (just got home) |
| 11:42.00 | elite01 | and now, fortune spit with a quote form "Edwim Schrodinger" at me |
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| 11:47.28 | thing1 | damn dialup drop out |
| 11:47.29 | thing1 | argh |
| 11:47.29 | thing1 | hehe |
| 11:50.27 | thing1 | damn |
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| 18:17.17 | poolio | brlcad: You've got mail :) |
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| 18:54.07 | poolio | brlcad: also when you get a chance, maybe you could explain how brlcad deals with the CSG trees :) |
| 19:31.31 | IriX64 | make install |
| 19:34.55 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/VZiv2N84.html < --- fbserv on the windows side :) |
| 19:41.20 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/axrGmn24.html < --- heheh it works sorrry to be so verbose :) |
| 19:42.39 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601029.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:46.11 | IriX64 | now to copy my latest effort from cygwin to windows.... wish me luck :) |
| 19:48.09 | IriX64 | this thing is huge, over a gig for the tree, course thats a static compile |
| 19:48.47 | IriX64 | err link |
| 19:50.34 | IriX64 | name something that by all rights should not work, i'm trying to be complete here |
| 19:51.20 | IriX64 | man 2,708 files, 90 folders |
| 19:51.57 | IriX64 | thats everything except adrt |
| 19:55.30 | IriX64 | crap metaball creation still crashes it :( |
| 20:04.57 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8AaDui37.html < --- just so you know i'm working with your code |
| 20:24.31 | IriX64 | ah i see metaball not implemented in this version |
| 20:24.58 | IriX64 | so why does it crash mged |
| 20:41.27 | IriX64 | bu_log..... |
| 20:42.05 | IriX64 | to each his own :) |
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| 21:13.11 | IriX64 | 48kc ... interesting :) |
| 21:16.46 | IriX64 | starting another tree to go edit happy in, yours brlcad awaits you :) |
| 21:18.00 | brlcad | poolio: got it, thanks! |
| 21:18.07 | brlcad | IriX64: five lines... |
| 21:18.29 | IriX64 | again i don't count well but ill try |
| 21:19.20 | IriX64 | you've gotta admit what i lack in expertise i make up form in enthusiasm :) |
| 21:21.09 | poolio | brlcad: cool cool. I've started kind of outlining in pseudocode what the framework is gonna be like |
| 21:21.23 | brlcad | IriX64: which is the main reason you've not been ejected ;) |
| 21:21.35 | brlcad | others wouldn't be so patient |
| 21:21.39 | brlcad | so please try to count |
| 21:21.42 | IriX64 | heh thanks for your tolerance :) |
| 21:21.47 | IriX64 | ill try |
| 21:23.26 | poolio | brlcad: the whole tree layout and whatnot in librt are quite confusing to me :$ |
| 21:24.27 | brlcad | poolio: I'll read it in more detail later this evening and add some of my own comments and edits for sharing around "in house" (mainly adding extra detail on the "big picture" of why try to do this at all) |
| 21:25.23 | brlcad | poolio: the csg tree is a directed acyclic graph that can be turned into a binary directed tree or left in graph form |
| 21:25.51 | brlcad | you generally don't have to care other than knowing how to create a hierarchy (which you don't need just yet ;) |
| 21:26.56 | brlcad | first input test case should be just a simple sphere |
| 21:37.09 | poolio | brlcad: Yes, but I'd like to have it correclty interact with the csg tree, even if it's just one shape |
| 21:38.15 | poolio | brlcad: I'd also appreciate more comments on the big picture, I don't think I entirely understand it :) |
| 21:39.29 | poolio | bascially I want to learn how to work with the csg tree now, that way everything will work the same when I go to more shapes or operations the current structure won't work and will need to be heavily updated. I'd pretty much have to rewrite all of the genome encoding and reading stuff |
| 21:44.49 | brlcad | poolio: from a construction perspective, maybe look at src/proc-db and man libwdb |
| 21:45.12 | brlcad | and perhaps src/mk |
| 21:45.30 | brlcad | they includes lots of examples on creating geometry in memory, creating .g geometry files |
| 21:46.12 | poolio | alright cool |
| 21:46.34 | poolio | also, is a good way of approaching the storage of objects putting htem in a .g file and manipulating/reading/writing from there? that's the way I currently hvae it set up |
| 21:46.40 | brlcad | there's a way to create/open in-memory-only geometry files as well, but I'd recommend actually sticking to creating actual files so results can be reviewed, manually loaded, etc |
| 21:47.07 | poolio | brlcad: Well I think it's probalby better to keep it optionally stored to a file, that way if you want to speed it up when you run in parallel it will be a lot better |
| 21:47.14 | poolio | otherwise you're transmitting quite a lot of data back and forth |
| 21:47.58 | brlcad | fwiw, that's getting into the realm of optimization where you've not yet profiled .. |
| 21:48.11 | poolio | true :P |
| 21:48.34 | poolio | It's just a thought. Also for me testing I need to try to keep it reasonably fast otherwise I might go days computing |
| 21:48.52 | brlcad | it's a good concern, but I can categorically say that you're very likely not going to be I/O bound writing geometry to disk -- ray-tracing will dominate |
| 21:48.55 | poolio | and I don't know how large the .g file will grow to, but I guess I can always just scale it down |
| 21:49.35 | brlcad | the .g files shouldn't be more than a few K, they're rather compact for CSG |
| 21:50.04 | brlcad | a full tank in csg can be often only a few MB |
| 21:50.24 | poolio | brlcad: ok :) |
| 21:50.24 | brlcad | whereas in polygonal form, they might be a GB |
| 21:50.47 | brlcad | there's about two orders of magnitude difference |
| 21:51.11 | poolio | that's quite crazy. Some insane compression if it works well :) |
| 21:54.42 | poolio | brlcad: also the reason I want to work with trees is because of the crossover, mutation, and reproduction aspects. I'd rather code them to work with trees than with whatever shape I'm working with |
| 21:54.50 | poolio | although I guess the only thing that will exist is mutation |
| 21:54.51 | brlcad | .g overhead is 104 bytes to stub out an empty file, each primitive is roughly about 100-500 bytes |
| 21:54.54 | poolio | (in a one-shape system) |
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| 22:24.02 | IriX64 | anybody know the latest version of solaris? issolaris5 is good but.. |
| 22:24.11 | IriX64 | ie too |
| 22:43.06 | IriX64 | haha solaris10 :) |
| 22:43.51 | IriX64 | testing your solaris code i.e -DSOLARIS :) |
| 22:51.21 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/z44nf372.html lets see if it even starts to build |
| 22:54.12 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/oJxZEi22.html heh i'll shutup now :) |
| 00:16.17 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/oynrsY45.html just curious, have i hit solaris code yet? |
| 00:19.09 | IriX64 | remember i ignore warnings such as cast make integer from pointer of different size |
| 00:19.43 | IriX64 | because in a cast i assume you know what you want |
| 00:36.47 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/UZsUZI80.html <---- is anybody else getting this kind of stuff, this is trying to make bwish |
| 00:37.35 | IriX64 | reams of errors do you want all of it? |
| 00:40.25 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/D4wdlm67.html maybe that will help |
| 00:41.45 | IriX64 | bte mged exhibits the same symptom, i tried compiling it just in its directory |
| 00:41.51 | IriX64 | btw too |
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| 18:17.14 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, here's that photoshop pix of tinwoodsman i promised you :P |
| 18:28.52 | IriX64 | actually it's a 5-clicks photo ;) |
| 18:30.11 | IriX64 | brlcad: i deleted that tree and did a fresh complete cvs checkout, waiting on you now at your leisure. |
| 18:31.57 | poolio | IriX64: It's the weekend, he might not be working today :) |
| 18:33.05 | IriX64 | doh!!!! yer right |
| 18:34.11 | IriX64 | you get that iceweasel of yours to access the blog? |
| 18:34.52 | IriX64 | heh firefox detected refusing access() |
| 18:35.57 | IriX64 | probably hides on weekends :) |
| 18:37.14 | poolio | IriX64: no, i haven't bothered though, been busy with work/play. |
| 18:37.43 | IriX64 | ahh |
| 18:38.13 | IriX64 | wonder if others have that problem, i know yukonbob hit it too |
| 18:38.33 | IriX64 | said something about curling the url |
| 18:41.28 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/FDzKcw22.html hehe checking the solaris code :) |
| 18:44.13 | IriX64 | understand how this works, I can follow any of the lines you support and cross compile to my platform :) |
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| 18:59.14 | IriX64 | yukonbob, he fixed your display thing , fisheye :) |
| 18:59.23 | IriX64 | errr check fisheye |
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| 19:13.09 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:13.38 | IriX64 | only thing i don't like is defaults to join on open |
| 19:18.06 | IriX64 | my irix32 blog :) |
| 19:22.11 | IriX64 | should have put the pirates of the carribean up at disney |
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| 21:39.46 | IriX64 | poolio.... that assert.h thing, thought they fixed it. |
| 21:40.45 | IriX64 | well i fixed my copy sigh... again |
| 21:41.15 | IriX64 | sometimes it doesn't pay to start from scratch :) |
| 21:41.53 | IriX64 | scratch being a complete cvs checkout |
| 21:42.09 | poolio | I can commit it for you |
| 21:42.33 | IriX64 | could you just #include <assert.h> with his includes |
| 21:42.43 | poolio | yeah sure, one sec |
| 21:42.48 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 21:44.07 | poolio | which file was it in again? |
| 21:44.23 | IriX64 | opennurbs_bezier.cpp |
| 21:45.05 | IriX64 | not sure if it should go there or common.h |
| 21:45.38 | IriX64 | i put mine in the cpp file |
| 21:46.26 | IriX64 | is that file name right just a sec |
| 21:47.21 | IriX64 | its right |
| 21:47.27 | poolio | I'm just going to put it in opennurbs_bezier.cpp, the dev can move it later if he wants |
| 21:47.39 | IriX64 | good |
| 21:48.10 | poolio | alright, cvsup |
| 21:48.19 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 21:48.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: included assert.h |
| 21:55.03 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/CKliVD10.html line 3352 or there abouts poolio, why set x11_works to no on a successfull test result? |
| 21:55.22 | IriX64 | err configure.ac |
| 21:56.04 | IriX64 | the previos check sets to yes, this one resets to no on success |
| 21:58.14 | IriX64 | so when i go edit happy, I just change that little no to a yes, and voila my x passes inspection now |
| 21:58.23 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:01.57 | poolio | I ahve a feeling you fail the second check |
| 22:02.19 | poolio | It doesn't set it to no on success, it sets it to no on failure. And apparently you fail that check |
| 22:06.45 | poolio | http://rafb.net/p/vXnvBf74.html |
| 22:06.49 | poolio | compile and run that and tell me what it outputs |
| 22:08.15 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 22:12.43 | IriX64 | undefined reference to _Xnewmodifier map, you telling me my x is broken? |
| 22:12.53 | poolio | yes siree. |
| 22:13.00 | IriX64 | crapville |
| 22:13.02 | poolio | oh wait, it won't even compile? |
| 22:13.06 | IriX64 | right |
| 22:13.15 | poolio | oh duh |
| 22:13.23 | poolio | you have to link the right xlibs, one sec |
| 22:15.11 | poolio | -lX11 |
| 22:16.07 | IriX64 | gives back a pointer so my x is not broken :) |
| 22:16.23 | IriX64 | you printfed the pointer its there poolio |
| 22:17.12 | IriX64 | IriX64@FthrNtr ~ |
| 22:17.12 | IriX64 | $ ./test |
| 22:17.12 | IriX64 | 0x100f0198 |
| 22:17.12 | IriX64 | IriX64@FthrNtr ~ |
| 22:17.13 | IriX64 | $ |
| 22:18.58 | IriX64 | going for a walk cya later, thanks for the commit |
| 22:19.15 | poolio | IriX64: wait, got another minute? |
| 22:21.49 | poolio | ah well, you'll read it when you get back. I don't know much about automake so I missed this, but AC_TRY_RUN has 4 arguments, the first is the program, , if the program returns true the second argument is executed, false the third, and ** if autoconf knows it is cross-compiling for another |
| 22:21.54 | poolio | machine and therefore can't run a test program at all, it doesn't try |
| 22:21.57 | poolio | but just executes the fourth argument. |
| 22:37.50 | IriX64 | so what are we saying here i have a busted x11? |
| 22:39.47 | IriX64 | so,,x11_works=no what will happen on success |
| 22:40.28 | IriX64 | x11_works gets set to a null? |
| 22:41.44 | IriX64 | whats wrong with plain ole [x11_works=yes] ? |
| 22:42.39 | IriX64 | gotta reboot ill be back |
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| 22:48.03 | yukonbob | IriX64: what "display thing" are you talking about...? |
| 22:48.51 | IriX64 | DISPLAY environment variable brlcad did something about it |
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| 22:49.40 | IriX64 | poolio if i change it to just ,[x11_works] the result is true which means the test passed and i do have that little thing it's testing for |
| 22:49.50 | IriX64 | err x11_works=yes |
| 22:50.34 | yukonbob | IriX64: Ahh... ;) |
| 22:53.11 | IriX64 | the url for fisheye1 is in the topic if you ewant to look |
| 22:53.17 | IriX64 | err want |
| 22:53.26 | poolio | IriX64: Well, I don't think it will execute the ,[x11_works] = yes, it detects you are cross-compiling and doesn't even bother to do AC_TRY_RUN (I think). So for now I'd just hack it apart/comment out/whatever to make it run |
| 22:53.50 | poolio | I don't quite see why that test is being run, it looks like it only is for testing if you are cross compiling |
| 22:53.58 | IriX64 | right but one argument is set it to that if true correct? |
| 22:54.17 | poolio | huh? |
| 22:54.19 | IriX64 | only one , |
| 22:54.39 | poolio | Just comment it out / change it to automatically set x11_works = yes for now, and talk to brlcad when he gets back about why they bother to run that test |
| 22:55.00 | IriX64 | good |
| 22:55.45 | IriX64 | every time i touch configure.ac he calls me edit happy :P |
| 22:56.50 | IriX64 | good to be happy tho, edit or otherwise ;) |
| 22:56.56 | poolio | Well, you are edit happy. There are reasons things are done and checked for in configure.ac and brlcad wants to make sure it compiles and runs on as many systems as possible. So he doens't just wnat to cut out a certain check / modify it so it works for _you_, because that could break the install for many others |
| 22:57.24 | IriX64 | you mean nobody else is seeing this? |
| 22:58.31 | poolio | Well, it seems like for some reason or another X11 is automatically disabled if you are cross compiling.(maybe ;)) |
| 22:58.41 | poolio | And I would presume there is a reason, I just don't know what |
| 22:58.47 | IriX64 | mebbe so :) |
| 22:58.53 | poolio | I don't think very many people cross compile brlcad |
| 22:59.21 | poolio | ...why are you cross compiling? |
| 23:01.42 | IriX64 | oh i see, let me clarify cygwin is not supported, so i follow a code line that is supported and generate code for my system from it |
| 23:02.29 | IriX64 | true cross compiling is a ways down the road yet |
| 23:03.08 | IriX64 | but already I have grief, most configures bail out saying can't check such and such while cross compiling |
| 23:03.49 | poolio | that's a bummer. I feel like if you can compile _for_ a system there is no reason why you can't compile _on_ that system |
| 23:04.05 | IriX64 | so i cheat and use the build,target,host switches and preprocess configure to provide results based on those. |
| 23:04.57 | IriX64 | or on another system is the way i feel about it |
| 23:05.17 | poolio | if you're willing to run cygwin why not just spare yourself a headache and run it in vmware or something |
| 23:05.27 | IriX64 | if you're in config.sub, i may support you :) |
| 23:05.46 | IriX64 | vmware is costly |
| 23:05.52 | poolio | It's actually free |
| 23:06.01 | IriX64 | since when? |
| 23:06.03 | poolio | (vmware player) |
| 23:06.20 | IriX64 | heh thought you meant vmware workstation |
| 23:06.51 | IriX64 | i actually have an expired copy on here with warp4 on it |
| 23:06.55 | poolio | no, but if you found someone with vmware workstation and just made an image, you could distribute that image (probalby of a linux install with brl-cad) |
| 23:07.13 | IriX64 | ?? illegal |
| 23:07.21 | poolio | no, it's entirely legal |
| 23:07.33 | IriX64 | how vmware costs money. |
| 23:07.57 | poolio | well find someone who has bought it and use their computer to do it, or ask brlcad nicely and maybe he could do it. he's got funding :) |
| 23:08.07 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:11.55 | IriX64 | see if the BSD or SOLARIS specific stuff successfully builds it means it's working |
| 23:12.28 | IriX64 | my latest 7.8.8 had the -DBSD flag set it runs here. |
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| 02:45.28 | IriX64 | urffff didn't mean to be here sorry. |
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| 09:21.23 | IriX64 | POOLIO: maybe you better tell those people (the dev we talked about) assert is only available on some unix systems, like system III and 5 |
| 09:21.52 | IriX64 | that dev needs to know :) |
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| 10:37.10 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:38.44 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/KzXg3I62.html heh, I can force an install but what's the point without mged :) |
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| 11:24.00 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/hS9mjF30.html <----- forcing the issue, and i better shutup I guess, my enthusiasm is showing :) |
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| 11:29.31 | IriX64 | hah forgot i'm building with tcl/tk 8.5a6 too , bonus :) |
| 11:35.37 | IriX64 | poolio: that assert() thing, since not all systems have it i would just find the source for it and include it in something like the util lib (libbu) |
| 11:36.47 | IriX64 | somebody tell poolio if i'm not here when he shows, i got him into this and i'm trying to rectify the shmozle i made. |
| 12:35.32 | IriX64 | how the heck did has_sgigl get set? |
| 12:52.40 | IriX64 | it's actually using system tcl/tk. |
| 12:53.54 | IriX64 | no need for a blow by blow i guess, i'll shut up again |
| 13:57.44 | IriX64 | built with tcl/tk8.5a6 lets install it |
| 13:58.40 | IriX64 | wonder if it'll run on the windereze side of the house, should its all link static :) |
| 14:07.24 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/ndw3Ne58.html if anybodys interested in an install in progress snapshot :) |
| 14:22.22 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/4SOaEK90.html <--- I get this on the windows side of the house, bear in mind i didn't build tcl/tk but i don't think thats whats wrong |
| 14:25.49 | IriX64 | thought so i get it on the cygwin side too, will rebuild with everything selected i guess. |
| 14:32.40 | IriX64 | console mode works to the extent of executing fbserv and doing a raytrace :) |
| 14:32.51 | IriX64 | now i'll shut up again |
| 16:09.18 | IriX64 | that display variable could give me heartburn |
| 16:11.11 | IriX64 | doh maybe not :) |
| 16:29.22 | IriX64 | attaches to X in console mode but hangs and eventually detaches in gui startup mode |
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| 16:35.10 | IriX64 | hah http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the brl cad albumn, first pix :) |
| 16:36.58 | elite01 | nice |
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| 16:57.26 | IriX64 | thanks but it's brlcad teams code :) |
| 16:58.48 | IriX64 | bonus ogl works too |
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| 22:16.03 | IriX64 | poolio deepest apologies, i checked and assert() is only available on *some unix systems, blame it on me. |
| 22:22.01 | poolio | Wait, how is it your fault? |
| 22:22.15 | poolio | It seems like it's whoever wrote the codes fault that they wrote something that wasn't entirely portable |
| 22:22.15 | IriX64 | i suggested commiting it |
| 22:22.21 | poolio | So did brlcad |
| 22:22.26 | IriX64 | true |
| 22:22.39 | poolio | And it broke brlcad on some unix systems? |
| 22:29.23 | IriX64 | yeah no such file or directory i assume |
| 22:29.23 | poolio | No worries, I'm new to this thing too, there are plenty of devs that review the commits and when I/whoever breaks something, it is normally quickly fixed |
| 22:29.23 | poolio | Oh wait, it hasn't been fixed. Who did it break for? |
| 22:29.23 | IriX64 | good |
| 22:29.23 | IriX64 | dunno but somebodys gonna get it |
| 22:29.23 | IriX64 | fixes it here so im happy |
| 22:29.24 | poolio | Well, assert.h is included in many other parts of brlcad, so I'd assume that brlcad is designed for only systems that have the assert.h header |
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| 22:35.14 | IriX64 | ah i didn't know that |
| 22:35.45 | jimmyz | hi all |
| 22:36.05 | jimmyz | irix, do you use sgi gear? |
| 22:37.19 | IriX64 | no i don't |
| 22:37.43 | jimmyz | oh, sorry |
| 22:37.54 | IriX64 | quite allright :) |
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| 11:55.37 | poolio | mornin' |
| 13:37.21 | poolio | brlcad: morning. is there a way to simultaneously read/write to a database? |
| 13:37.36 | poolio | or maybe a non-destructive way to write to a file (append) |
| 13:37.52 | poolio | wdb_fopen() overwrites the database |
| 13:42.38 | poolio | brlcad: ah nevermind, found it |
| 13:44.20 | poolio | So my other question is: is there a way to read/write to the same file? currently I'm opening database,creating new shapes, closing database, opening it for reading (get db_i) and read each object (get rt_i) and then close it and all over again |
| 14:10.15 | brlcad | there is a way to read/write to the same file so long as you use the librt interface (db_open) instead of the libwdb interface (wdb_open) |
| 14:12.10 | poolio | brlcad: Well I think I got it working, I use db_open to get the db_i, then call wdb_open with that db_i |
| 14:12.36 | poolio | wdb_open seems to be moreso part of the "librt interface" -- wdb_open() is in src/librt |
| 14:13.26 | poolio | The thing I have to remember is wdb_close() frees the db_i, and calls db_close() for me so I don't db_close() in my program |
| 14:18.32 | brlcad | the "w" in wdb stands for write(-only) database |
| 14:19.17 | brlcad | some of the write-database routines are provided by librt, but are still hazily part of libwdb |
| 14:21.04 | poolio | well the issue is that I need the mk_shape routines in libwdb, and to use them I need an rt_wdb pointer for those |
| 14:21.41 | poolio | and to get that I think I need to run wdb_open() even though the database is remaining read/write (it's working...) |
| 14:22.38 | brlcad | if you have an rtip, you have a wdbp |
| 14:24.13 | brlcad | the dbip has a wdbp in it |
| 14:25.23 | poolio | ah d'oh. thanks. |
| 14:26.16 | brlcad | so if you dbopen, just access the dbi_wdbp (or conversely if you have an rti, rti_dbip->dbi_wdbp |
| 14:26.37 | poolio | brlcad: yeah I was just browsing the struct info, thanks :) |
| 14:30.30 | brlcad | there are forward/backward pointers in most of the top-level structs (application, rt_i, db_i, soltab, db_tree_state) |
| 14:30.49 | brlcad | not that you'd implicitly know that :) |
| 14:31.56 | poolio | and what's the default behavior for name collisions with mk_shape? |
| 14:32.36 | poolio | brlcad: errr "NULL rt_wdb pointer" |
| 14:33.01 | poolio | oh d'oh. |
| 14:33.17 | poolio | I should really try to error check things before whining in IRC |
| 14:41.17 | poolio | brlcad: Wait, so should that pointer be automatically initialized to an rt_wdb, because it's NULL and looks like I have to set it myself |
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| 15:45.10 | brlcad | depends on the calls you've made, how you got/get the "thing" you start with (presumably an rti or a dbi) |
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| 17:52.02 | IriX64 | hah it works :) |
| 17:55.41 | RodGallowGlass | register early register often :) |
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| 20:31.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Fix a bug causing getLeaves to not work... reference typo |
| 20:33.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Add prep code to cache bezier spans of trimming curves; Remove dead code; add some debugging diagnostics |
| 20:35.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fix getLeaves (non)reference bug |
| 20:38.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_nurbscurve.cpp: fix memory leak in NumIntersectionsWith(); hack override MakePiecewiseBezier to generate bezier span cache... this needs to be, um, polished a bit |
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| 20:41.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_nurbscurve.h: add CacheBezierSpan method for use during raytrace prep time |
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| 23:34.39 | RodGallowGlass | phear this compiler :) |
| 23:53.04 | RodGallowGlass | anybody remeber what the proper arguments are to -mfpmath= ?? |
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| 02:01.01 | yukonbob | RodGallowGlass: man gcc says "387", "sse", or "see,387" |
| 02:01.15 | yukonbob | *ssc,387 |
| 02:01.28 | yukonbob | *sse,387 ;) |
| 02:10.39 | RodGallowGlass | ahh the "other" processor on the chip, thanks man ;) |
| 02:51.05 | RodGallowGlass | http://Irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff shot of what im doing at the moment (I like to share) :) |
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| 11:53.37 | drmad | hello everybody |
| 11:54.38 | drmad | I'm trying to install brlcad and I have an error message, can someone help please ? |
| 12:02.31 | drmad | This is probably just a small problem :~ |
| 12:11.06 | yukonbob_ | drmad: tell us what the msg is :) |
| 12:23.32 | drmad | make[4]: *** Pas de règle pour fabriquer la cible « jove-tutorial », nécessaire pour « all-am ». Arrêt. |
| 12:23.32 | drmad | make[4]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/jove » |
| 12:23.32 | drmad | make[3]: *** [all] Erreur 2 |
| 12:23.32 | drmad | make[3]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/jove » |
| 12:23.32 | drmad | make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Erreur 1 |
| 12:23.35 | drmad | make[2]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other » |
| 12:23.37 | drmad | make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Erreur 1 |
| 12:23.39 | drmad | make[1]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src » |
| 12:24.07 | drmad | make: *** [all-recursive] Erreur 1 |
| 12:24.07 | drmad | bash-3.1$ |
| 12:59.23 | drmad | it means "no target to install jove-tutotial" |
| 12:59.52 | elite01 | i think you should configure with --disable-jove or soemthing like that |
| 13:01.54 | drmad | what for jove is used in brlcad ? |
| 13:02.08 | elite01 | i think it's some text editor |
| 13:02.15 | elite01 | i also believe no one needs it :) |
| 13:05.21 | drmad | I have found jove in slackware repository, it try again |
| 13:06.38 | drmad | I have found jove in slackware repository, I try again |
| 13:08.26 | drmad | I never used any CAD software, is brlcad good to start with ? What is the best tutorial to use ? |
| 13:09.03 | elite01 | the "introduction to mged" at http://www.brlcad.org/ is ok |
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| 13:15.19 | drmad | it compiles hardly... |
| 13:22.13 | poolio | MORNIN |
| 13:22.20 | poolio | oopsies. |
| 13:43.42 | poolio | brlcad: I have some questions for you when you return :) |
| 15:02.58 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 17:00.49 | *** join/#brlcad avegas (n=vegas@71-36-200-5.eugn.qwest.net) | |
| 17:00.58 | avegas | hi there, |
| 17:01.07 | drmad | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.29 | avegas | are you folks mainly developers, or users, or both? |
| 17:03.11 | RodGallowGlass | some of us like me, are neither and just play around :) |
| 17:03.36 | avegas | :D |
| 17:04.49 | avegas | so, a few friends of mine want to try and build a web based CAD program, and I'm wondering if the BRL-CAD source would be a good thing to read around in to maybe get some ideas |
| 17:05.31 | archivist | web based !!!! |
| 17:05.32 | avegas | and it also seems interesting that BRL-CAD is split into all these modular little utilities, that could maybe be repurposed to do server-side work |
| 17:05.56 | avegas | yeah, I think it's a semi-ridiculous idea, but I like working on those |
| 17:06.25 | avegas | it would be in service of this whole 'fab-lab' community-oriented desktop fabrication thing |
| 17:06.37 | avegas | :D |
| 17:06.37 | archivist | I have started on a diagramming tool for databases thats web based |
| 17:06.56 | avegas | are you using canvas, or svg, or something else? |
| 17:07.05 | archivist | something else |
| 17:07.21 | archivist | comments here http://www.archivist.info/search/index.php/Erd and beta test here http://www.archivist.info/wench/erd.php |
| 17:07.39 | archivist | lots to do yet |
| 17:07.51 | avegas | that's pretty standard |
| 17:07.54 | avegas | looks neat |
| 17:08.15 | archivist | as a 3d modeller user I dont think the web is right for that |
| 17:09.46 | archivist | too much to send in each direction |
| 17:10.23 | RodGallowGlass | archivist... ^5's |
| 17:16.52 | avegas | yeah, it's main initial goal would be for pcbs |
| 17:20.09 | archivist | hmm Ive been a pcb designer in the past |
| 17:20.53 | archivist | are you thinking autorouting or hand editing |
| 17:23.50 | RodGallowGlass | archivist, you a p-cad user? |
| 17:24.00 | archivist | yes |
| 17:24.07 | RodGallowGlass | thought so |
| 17:24.17 | archivist | 5 on dos |
| 17:24.35 | RodGallowGlass | is there a good windows version yet? |
| 17:25.05 | archivist | dunno ones ive seen seem backwards in useability |
| 17:25.15 | RodGallowGlass | have'nt played with that in 10 years |
| 17:26.02 | RodGallowGlass | came up with a program to dump the plot on the screen to laser since print screen couldn't do it |
| 17:26.19 | RodGallowGlass | rather than plotting the whole file |
| 17:26.24 | archivist | heh worth keeping 486's going for |
| 17:26.30 | RodGallowGlass | yes |
| 17:26.49 | RodGallowGlass | plenty of spares ;) |
| 17:28.00 | RodGallowGlass | laserjet II still have the program somewhere if you want it it was a little tsr |
| 17:29.12 | archivist | I keep a postscript HP for prints, view the plots in pcgerber |
| 17:29.28 | RodGallowGlass | that too works |
| 17:29.48 | RodGallowGlass | this laser also had the plotter cartridge |
| 17:31.17 | RodGallowGlass | the autorouter is pretty good, rarely got caught in a no trace possible condition, depending on the density |
| 17:36.38 | archivist | cant have done tight boards then |
| 17:38.12 | RodGallowGlass | just small stuff 15"x15" |
| 17:38.27 | RodGallowGlass | pie plates :) |
| 17:38.57 | RodGallowGlass | hand editing is .... interesting :) |
| 17:39.44 | RodGallowGlass | found the source called it vgaprn |
| 17:39.53 | archivist | I normally had restrictions on layers so had to do a lot of hand routing |
| 17:40.14 | RodGallowGlass | understood, you play serious play. |
| 17:40.40 | RodGallowGlass | its only two k how much does rafb allow? |
| 17:40.45 | RodGallowGlass | 2k |
| 17:41.18 | archivist | dunno |
| 17:41.25 | RodGallowGlass | erf cgaprn |
| 17:41.38 | RodGallowGlass | dunno what vgaprn is |
| 17:42.03 | RodGallowGlass | when this thing frees up a little ill post it on rafb |
| 17:42.20 | archivist | ok |
| 17:51.07 | RodGallowGlass | http://rafb.net/p/sVOzsI89.html |
| 17:54.10 | RodGallowGlass | gotta reboot be right back, well sorta right back |
| 17:54.16 | *** part/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:59.09 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:00.20 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/d5Ya2c43.html archivist this one has nothing to do with prtscrn :) |
| 18:08.22 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/46D3VG31.html <----- archivist, my system cooks, I'm sure you're familiar with this (it's beautiful :)) |
| 18:12.13 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.116.51) | |
| 18:12.17 | IriX64 | salute :) |
| 18:15.58 | brlcad | drmad: 7.10.0 had a file missing for jove, but jove is entirely non-critical and can be disabled with --disable-jove |
| 18:16.06 | poolio | brlcad: I have many a question for you. |
| 18:17.26 | brlcad | poolio: okay, fire away |
| 18:17.33 | brlcad | i'm in and out, so some might have a delay ;) |
| 18:17.47 | poolio | brlcad: Remember when we were talking and said global scale doesn't matter, like a sphere with a radius of 4 and a sphere of radius 2 should be equivalent (if those are the only shapes you are comparing). Well the issue is that when raytracing, the depth of the sphere (where you get the hit_dist ances from) is going to change depending on scale. So do you think it would be a good idea to normalize the rays to their bounding box or should |
| 18:18.15 | poolio | Also, is there a way to modify a shape in the database or should I just rewrite it every time I update it? |
| 18:19.15 | poolio | And the big issue I had was in thinking of how to generate a random population. For a circle it's somewhat easy, you pick a point within the bounding box, but you're leaving out a lot of points with that... so for a sphere the acceptable possible center locations are going to be less than the spheres radius away from the bounding box of the source |
| 18:19.25 | poolio | I use source to reference the data that we are trying to extract shapes from |
| 18:19.48 | poolio | So for a sphere it'd be trivial: randomly pick a radius in a certain range, compute possible points, and pick those points |
| 18:20.54 | poolio | The issue comes with other shapes... I'd have to come up with an algorithm to have a given shapes bounding box in terms of the input points and parameters. Like with an rpp neither of the min/max points need to lie in the bounding box of the source for the rpp's bounding box to intersect the source |
| 18:21.23 | poolio | so the main issue I'm worried about is how to randomly generate points that will have the shape those points belong to's bounding box intersect the source's bounding box |
| 18:21.30 | poolio | alright I'll stop asking there, I have more though :) |
| 18:23.58 | poolio | disclaimer: I may drop out, crazy thunderstorms. |
| 18:28.06 | brlcad | whether you normalize the shotlines to the bounding box size or not is entirely up to you :) |
| 18:28.16 | brlcad | I think there's merit to both approaches |
| 18:28.55 | brlcad | I *think* normalizing will remove an optimization variable entirely, which should help convergence, but can't say that definitiely .. just intuitively |
| 18:29.08 | poolio | That's my thought, it's just one less dimension |
| 18:29.23 | poolio | the question is whether the time it takes to normalize the rays would be faster or slower than having the GA learn the scale |
| 18:29.33 | brlcad | I would just rewrite the shape for each new population -- write out a new .g file even -- that takes *no* time in comparison to the fitness evaluation |
| 18:29.58 | poolio | Well I'm not writing out a new .g file, I'm overwriting the current shapes. Would you say have a different .g file for each generation? |
| 18:30.19 | brlcad | the only issue that comes to mind for normalizing is that you'll need BB's that are aligned to the grid of rays |
| 18:30.51 | poolio | brlcad: wait, are the bounding boxes that are calculated OBBs? |
| 18:31.26 | brlcad | yeah, I was thinking a new .g for each genotype even .. so you have a very simple mapping of input to result output candidates |
| 18:31.58 | poolio | wait, so one candidate solution for each .g file? |
| 18:32.11 | brlcad | that would let you do things like save the best .g from a given population and save it to a given dir, so you can see/keep the best from each iteration |
| 18:32.47 | poolio | alright |
| 18:33.02 | poolio | and are the bounding boxes that rt_prep calculates OBBs? |
| 18:33.08 | brlcad | whether it's each candidate or each population shouldn't really matter -- if you find it easier to do it per population, that'd work |
| 18:33.28 | poolio | I think I'll leave it per population and I can write a quick routine to extract and dump the best individuals from each into a new .g |
| 18:33.38 | brlcad | ooh, even better than OBB .. you can probably just use the bounding sphere (which I think is computed after prep) |
| 18:33.54 | brlcad | the radius/diameter of the bounding sphere is probably enough to normalize |
| 18:34.20 | brlcad | rt_prep calculates AABB's iirc |
| 18:35.48 | poolio | alright |
| 18:36.04 | poolio | and any ideas in terms of generating random candidates ? |
| 18:37.12 | poolio | and how do I rotate an object in code? |
| 18:37.41 | brlcad | depends -- primitives are positioned/oriented in space exactly |
| 18:37.50 | brlcad | combinations have matrices |
| 18:38.05 | poolio | exact oreintation would be fine. i didn't see anything in libwdb about orientation |
| 18:40.36 | brlcad | part of mk_comb for combinations |
| 18:40.56 | poolio | well I think I'm only going to be working with primitives and regions. I don't really see a need for combinations as of now |
| 18:40.58 | brlcad | it returns a matrix that you can set that is written during wdb_close |
| 18:41.10 | brlcad | regions are combinations |
| 18:41.17 | poolio | oh. oops |
| 18:41.30 | poolio | well what about rotating individual primitives? |
| 18:41.34 | brlcad | combinations aren't necessarily regions, but all regions are combinations |
| 18:42.01 | brlcad | i wouldn't worry about rotating individual primitives -- it's implicit in their parameters |
| 18:42.02 | poolio | ok. Yeah I saw some examples in proc-db |
| 18:42.25 | poolio | brlcad: is it? I'm creating shapes (currently just spheres) with mk_sph() and there's no specification for orientation |
| 18:42.33 | brlcad | e.g. if you want an ellipsoid that stretches down the X axis, that's part of the A/B vectors you have to provide |
| 18:42.50 | poolio | Oh I see |
| 18:43.06 | brlcad | poolio: what's the difference between a sphere facing down the X and one facing down the Y axis? |
| 18:43.24 | brlcad | they're both spheres that consume exactly the same space ;) |
| 18:43.29 | poolio | There is none, but I was thinking about rectangles |
| 18:43.30 | brlcad | effectively unoriented |
| 18:43.40 | poolio | but I guess you'd just have the min/max points moved and that's rotation |
| 18:44.15 | brlcad | right, you define those corner points or plane equations that determines the orientation |
| 18:44.28 | brlcad | part of the nature of implicit geometry |
| 18:44.33 | poolio | alright. so orientation is implicit in the creation of the geoometry |
| 18:44.37 | poolio | :) |
| 18:45.25 | brlcad | yeah, part of the primitive genotype |
| 18:45.27 | poolio | so the only thing the GA needs to learn are the order of shapes and operators in between them, and theoretically everything else is going to be part of the parameters of the shapes that the combination is made up of |
| 18:45.42 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:46.38 | poolio | alright cool, so for nwo I'm going to try to get it to evolve a properly oriented rectangle adn then tomorrow I'll need some help on going from graphs --> trees and workign with that. I read through some of the code but wasn't entirely clear |
| 18:47.10 | poolio | Also I might have to have a sort of meta-GA to try to find the best parameters for the GA -- mutation rates, crossover rates, etc... |
| 18:47.41 | brlcad | start with a sphere |
| 18:47.46 | poolio | I have the sphere working |
| 18:47.46 | brlcad | it's the simplest case |
| 18:47.50 | poolio | The only thing to learn with a sphere is scale |
| 18:47.55 | poolio | which will be eliminated in a couple minutes |
| 18:47.59 | poolio | so there is nothing to learn with a sphere at all |
| 18:48.05 | brlcad | but actually evolving the sphere? |
| 18:48.09 | brlcad | sphere has a position |
| 18:48.17 | poolio | Yes, but the position is irrelevant |
| 18:48.29 | brlcad | you know that |
| 18:48.34 | poolio | The grid of rays is oreinted to the bounding box of the individual |
| 18:48.37 | brlcad | the GA doesn't know that |
| 18:49.24 | brlcad | you can skip it if you think it's too simple, but I still wouldn't jump to arb8's .. they have too many parameters |
| 18:49.36 | brlcad | maybe go with an ellipsoid then |
| 18:49.36 | poolio | So what would you recommend? |
| 18:49.40 | poolio | alright |
| 18:50.00 | brlcad | another good one would be a torus |
| 18:50.00 | poolio | The only thing to worry about in a single-primitive population is the orientation |
| 18:50.12 | brlcad | very few parameters, but rather complex shape |
| 18:50.22 | poolio | alright. |
| 18:50.48 | brlcad | then maybe move to arb8 or tgc |
| 18:50.57 | poolio | also the issue with single shapes is it's fairly trivial, the only thing you have is mutation so it's just choosing random numbers or modifying the current one until it gets there |
| 18:50.59 | brlcad | those will be two of the harder shapes I'd imagine |
| 18:51.48 | poolio | mind me asking what a tgc is? |
| 18:51.56 | brlcad | truncated general cone |
| 18:52.08 | brlcad | the entire category of conics are represented via the tgc |
| 18:52.15 | poolio | oh wow |
| 18:52.20 | poolio | cool :) |
| 18:52.55 | poolio | Also I didn't mean jump to arb8, I meant RPP, but yeah... |
| 18:54.48 | brlcad | you have seen http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png yes? |
| 18:55.51 | poolio | no! very helpful :) |
| 18:56.05 | brlcad | all five of the generalized conic shapes in the lower left are tgc |
| 18:56.22 | brlcad | all of the boxes grouped up top are arb's |
| 18:56.48 | drmad | Thank you brlcad, but it compiled fine after installing jove. I have to learn now... |
| 18:57.21 | brlcad | drmad: the tutorials on http://brlcad.org (particularly the introduction to mged) are probably a good place to start, or just poke around all of the commands |
| 18:59.58 | drmad | yes, this one is already displayed on my computer... I read it |
| 19:00.04 | poolio | brlcad: does brl-cad have some sort of pseudo-random number generator implemented or can i use rand()? |
| 19:00.29 | brlcad | it does, and you should use it (as it's considerably faster and repeatable) ;) |
| 19:04.05 | brlcad | poolio: see include/bn.h .. there's even a simple snippet on how to use them |
| 19:04.38 | brlcad | there's no problem using rand() either, but you should definitely set and record the seed in your results so that runs can be entirely repeated |
| 19:04.45 | poolio | brlcad: I saw the table of random numbers, but I think I want something more random than that? |
| 19:05.08 | poolio | Oh alright, for testing purposes |
| 19:05.32 | brlcad | poolio: there's a lot of math behind the table of random numbers, in terms of variability, random sampling, mathematical distribution, etc |
| 19:06.23 | poolio | brlcad: so you would suggest just using them? |
| 19:06.38 | brlcad | whatever floats your boat :) |
| 19:06.49 | poolio | alrighty |
| 19:07.00 | poolio | thanks for answering all my questions, I've been struggling a bit the past two days :P |
| 19:07.47 | brlcad | bn's random numbers will be considerably faster than using rand(), not that that probably matters for this, but the sample distribution should also likely be more "well-behaved" |
| 19:08.00 | poolio | alright cool |
| 19:08.11 | brlcad | to the point that it shouldn't matter -- you're not likely to get artifacts at all from either |
| 19:45.05 | IriX64 | mother was right, if you can't follow the conversation stay out of it :) |
| 19:49.33 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/453cAr18.html <---- it took me an hour to fake this, did i get it right ;) |
| 20:03.10 | elite01 | IriX64, fake it? why not ./configure >something? |
| 20:04.04 | IriX64 | real configure ran it's making now |
| 20:05.37 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/b4oQC331.html <---- see, I figure if i'm going to be laffed at for my choice of system i may as well play the part :) |
| 20:06.23 | brlcad | those are random, useless pastebins |
| 20:06.31 | IriX64 | not really |
| 20:06.39 | brlcad | entirely -- what is the point?? |
| 20:06.53 | IriX64 | trying to lighten the mood |
| 20:07.03 | brlcad | the mood is light |
| 20:07.14 | elite01 | thanks to IriX64 :) |
| 20:07.19 | IriX64 | then i'll retire to my corner of the room now :) |
| 20:07.20 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:07.54 | poolio | I'm already floating away... |
| 20:08.09 | IriX64 | drop a byte as an anchor poolio |
| 20:08.16 | brlcad | it's just annoying to click on a link that conveys nothing of value.. not a build failure that needs fixing, not even a successful compilation of something that was hard to do (i.e. some sort of acheivement) |
| 20:08.32 | brlcad | it's just .. "noise" :) |
| 20:08.42 | IriX64 | ill preface such from now on a s this is a useless paste |
| 20:09.09 | poolio | I think I've lost it. I just spent like an hour debugging code that wasn't broken. I had a character at the beginning of my header file....GRRRR |
| 20:09.11 | brlcad | no, that's not the point -- if you know it's useless, then don't paste it |
| 20:09.32 | IriX64 | sigh... must i adhere to that |
| 20:09.42 | brlcad | we've had this talk before, I really do not want to have it again |
| 20:09.54 | IriX64 | ill adhere to it then |
| 20:10.06 | brlcad | thank you |
| 20:10.16 | IriX64 | blog shots allowed? |
| 20:10.36 | poolio | brlcad: is there some sort of internal structure that stores all of a given shape's properties? |
| 20:11.13 | brlcad | IriX64: in moderation when they actually share something .. _interesting_ |
| 20:11.23 | IriX64 | sure..thanks |
| 20:11.29 | brlcad | poolio: for each primitive, yes |
| 20:12.15 | brlcad | there's a struct arb_internal for example |
| 20:12.15 | brlcad | poolio: most of them are in rtgeom.h though raytrace.h has a few too |
| 20:12.29 | poolio | brlcad: but if I want some sort of universal shape container... that's not in existence? |
| 20:12.47 | brlcad | er, what do you mean? |
| 20:13.16 | brlcad | there are serialized an unserialized forms if that's what you mean |
| 20:13.17 | poolio | Like if I want a standard node in a tree, where that node represents the shape and the tree is the combination, is there a way to do that? (isn't it done this way internally?) |
| 20:13.31 | poolio | err not really |
| 20:13.54 | poolio | I'll try to figure it out in my brain tomorrow when I work with trees |
| 20:14.22 | brlcad | if I understand you correctly, rt_db_internal might be what you're looking for |
| 20:14.37 | poolio | alright thanks |
| 20:39.37 | brlcad | alternatively, you could deal with struct directory pointers, though that entirely encapsulates the geometry |
| 20:39.51 | brlcad | at that level, they are just generic named objects |
| 20:41.05 | brlcad | when you get a handle on a directory pointer (e.g. from db_lookup()), you can get that rt_db_internal via rt_db_get_internal() |
| 20:44.09 | poolio | brlcad: the issue is say "mutating" an object |
| 20:44.26 | poolio | I want a sort of wrapper, but I might have to do it like if(this_shape){modify these parameters...} |
| 20:49.09 | brlcad | well, the absolute "generic" container is the serialized form (which is part of what gets written to disk) |
| 20:49.36 | poolio | hmm yeah, i'm not sure that's what I want to deal with though |
| 20:49.44 | poolio | I guess it's probably better to just specialize the mutations for each shape |
| 20:50.01 | brlcad | each primitive has a export5 routine (e.g. rt_ell_export5()) that takes the rt_db_internal and fills in a bu_external (which is just a generic binary data array |
| 20:51.02 | brlcad | you could actually work with those bu_external's an an entirely generic fashion -- all the data in the idb_ptr is the parameters to the primitive without any names or types associated |
| 20:51.31 | poolio | so I could just mutate the binary data? |
| 20:51.40 | brlcad | so you could tweak actual values/bits there, just that you can conceivably make invalid geometry too -- boxes with twisted faces, inside out shapes, etc |
| 20:51.45 | brlcad | yeah, you could |
| 20:52.03 | poolio | Well the thing is I don't want to corrupt the data like that |
| 20:52.17 | poolio | I also don't want to do just straight mutation: replacing values with randomly generated ones |
| 20:52.26 | brlcad | it would be interesting to see how well the GA adjusted (if it even would) to invalid mutations |
| 20:52.26 | poolio | I'm thinking also to have mutations that just add/subtract to the current ones |
| 20:52.34 | brlcad | since the fitness would jump to zero |
| 20:52.40 | poolio | brlcad: well would the raytracer be able to work with it? |
| 20:52.51 | poolio | I feel like it'd just crash |
| 20:52.51 | brlcad | depends on case |
| 20:53.11 | brlcad | wouldn't likely crash, would just likely drop that object saying it's not valid |
| 20:53.21 | brlcad | as if you had no object |
| 20:53.34 | poolio | yeah |
| 20:53.44 | brlcad | at worst, could abort rt during prep (or perhaps crash.. hard to say without testing) |
| 20:53.46 | poolio | and if I did good error checking then it would probalby just drop the shape and randomly create a new individual |
| 20:54.08 | poolio | well something to think about, I'll try to make the GA framework flexible to allow for all sorts of testing and stuff in the upcoming weeks |
| 20:54.16 | brlcad | the primitives are supposed to check themselves during prep .. so if it made something invalid, it's up to their prep routine to stop |
| 20:54.24 | poolio | That's what's bugging me now...how to organize and lay things out and represent things. I'm trying to make it easier for myself in the future |
| 20:54.45 | brlcad | probably easiest to just have a hook for each primitive shape you support |
| 20:55.06 | brlcad | you have to know about them anyways since you're supporting only a subset from the start |
| 20:55.46 | brlcad | maybe just keep each one contained in its own file to make it obvious how to add evolutionary support for new primitives |
| 20:56.44 | brlcad | longer term solution would be a routine in librt that did the object-type manipulation for you somehow |
| 20:58.35 | poolio | that'd be handy. Maybe an array of "parameters" that pointed into the struct |
| 20:58.39 | poolio | actually I could implement that for my shapes |
| 20:58.45 | poolio | make the front-end of my app a bit prettier |
| 21:05.10 | IriX64 | yukonbob, why would i get an editor faceplate when starting mged from an xterm prompt, but not when starting from an ntvdm? |
| 21:05.33 | IriX64 | framebuffer comes up tho |
| 21:07.06 | brlcad | poolio: one other solution could be to use the serialized mged tcl form for each primitive, which is just a text string -- but then you still have the issue of what is valid and what is not, though it's obvious what the numbers are for the most part |
| 21:08.00 | poolio | brlcad: I think it makes more sense to just write hooks for each shape, but that is an interesting idea |
| 21:09.46 | brlcad | i agree |
| 21:09.50 | brlcad | just throwing it out there |
| 21:10.49 | brlcad | the only real way to encapsulate the behavior would be to add the ability to "randomly mutate" to each primitive, similar to how each primitive defines their existing behaviors |
| 21:11.04 | brlcad | then you could just call a generic mutate() hook func |
| 21:12.43 | poolio | Yeah but teh thing is what I want to mutate and how I want it to mutate is going to change / i would like it to be app-controlled |
| 21:12.57 | poolio | so if you want "Mutate" to mean replace certain values or if you want "mutate" to mean modify them X amount... |
| 21:16.39 | brlcad | yup, becomes very specific |
| 21:16.45 | brlcad | and tied to the GA |
| 21:17.02 | brlcad | and has very little to do with the geometry other than maybe asking "is this valid" |
| 21:17.14 | poolio | yeah oh well |
| 21:17.28 | poolio | I'm trying to keep the code modularized though so if this a) works and b) is used, it just might be maintainable :) |
| 21:19.54 | brlcad | a discussion came up in a meeting earlier today about how useful it would be to be able to go from a polygonal model to a csg or brep/nurbs model ;) |
| 21:20.04 | poolio | wooot. |
| 21:20.05 | brlcad | even for simple shapes |
| 21:20.07 | poolio | and what'd you say? |
| 21:20.22 | brlcad | only that you'd have it done next week |
| 21:20.44 | poolio | ... |
| 21:20.45 | poolio | bastard. |
| 21:21.01 | poolio | brlcad: I also have to do that huge sf86....I'm gonna die. |
| 21:21.01 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:21.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Increase root finding iterations and added edge miss tolerance |
| 21:21.34 | poolio | how simple shapes are you talking? Single primitives or just multiple in a union or ...? |
| 21:22.10 | brlcad | simple parts like a gear head or a piston, or a door knob, etc .. so not single primitives, but not more than a handful if simplified |
| 21:22.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Change the number of iterations for debugging purposes... |
| 21:22.48 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah I think the GA if working is a great way to create "rough models" of say polygonal models |
| 21:22.55 | poolio | I don't think it's good for finding the optimal solution |
| 21:23.03 | poolio | but I think it's very good at finding near-optimal solutions |
| 21:23.15 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad album , first picture (7.10.1 with X also have it with ogl) |
| 21:23.50 | IriX64 | but fbserv won't exec from mged, does fine from the dos prompt tho. |
| 21:24.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix yet another (hopefully final) knot-related bug |
| 21:25.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: fix a bug in IGES parsing where an empty field should yield a default numerical value |
| 21:26.48 | IriX64 | haha rotated it to 45 degrees on the x y z axis drew it fine |
| 21:27.01 | IriX64 | shall i post it |
| 21:27.09 | yukonbob | IriX64: I think I don't know what ntvdm is... |
| 21:27.23 | IriX64 | ahh ok thanks |
| 21:27.31 | yukonbob | so, what is it? |
| 21:27.38 | IriX64 | oh man a dos box |
| 21:27.42 | IriX64 | on windows |
| 21:28.02 | poolio | brlcad: is there a commercial solution to what I'm working on? I mean I'd be surprised if someone hadn't done it before |
| 21:28.25 | yukonbob | IriX64: like "cmd.exe"? |
| 21:28.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: start work on jungle gym algo, implemented in brep_edge_check method (try to prevent acne due to tracing through a crack in the manifold) |
| 21:28.46 | IriX64 | yukonbob yes exactly the C:\ prompt |
| 21:29.18 | IriX64 | may have it fixed |
| 21:29.38 | IriX64 | needs the DISPLAY variable thanks to you you lout :) |
| 21:29.57 | yukonbob | the best way to fix it, and improve a few other things is to install a BSD... ;) |
| 21:30.14 | IriX64 | free or commercial :) |
| 21:30.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: debug divergent root finder for pullback curves (investigate alternate methodology?) |
| 21:30.53 | brlcad | ~ntvdm is a Virtual DOS machine, the name of technology developed by Microsoft that allows older 16-bit MSDOS programs to run in a virtual machine on newer hardware and operating systems. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTVDM for details |
| 21:30.54 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 21:31.29 | brlcad | cmd.exe isn't the same as ntvdm |
| 21:31.33 | yukonbob | ?sure everything about brlcad is at least 32-bit. |
| 21:31.35 | yukonbob | *surely |
| 21:31.39 | poolio | brlcad: does jlowenz work withyou? |
| 21:31.55 | IriX64 | i'm trying to keep from going to hell brlcad :) |
| 21:33.09 | IriX64 | ok the cmd.exe prompt *not the command.com prompt altho i can run that prompt too on this system :) |
| 21:36.19 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 21:37.19 | IriX64 | ok the 45 degree shot is first pix on that albumn now |
| 22:10.48 | IriX64 | hah up.bat and up it comes |
| 22:12.31 | IriX64 | what was i doing up ar 5:22am anyway :) |
| 22:13.55 | IriX64 | yukonbob: i should have responded that's ok, i don't know what edlin is :P |
| 22:20.05 | IriX64 | things useless, it cant find any of the programs in bin, even when you cd to bin |
| 22:20.26 | IriX64 | this one i'm reporting, you need documentation? |
| 22:22.24 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/WR5l8A24.html |
| 22:38.38 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:41.15 | poolio | IriX64: have you tried running them with their paths? like ./filename.exe |
| 23:41.19 | poolio | (just a thought, I don't run windows) |
| 23:44.37 | IriX64 | man it's mged's exec command oh i see just a sec |
| 23:45.28 | IriX64 | that works |
| 23:45.39 | IriX64 | exec ./asc2g |
| 23:46.19 | IriX64 | but without=no such file or directory |
| 23:48.05 | IriX64 | you think it's a windows thing? soons this install is done ill check that |
| 23:48.23 | IriX64 | cleaned out the old build sigh |
| 23:49.10 | IriX64 | but it worked previous to last update sat night on the windows side |
| 23:52.43 | IriX64 | a jun 20 build works on both side man |
| 23:52.50 | IriX64 | something happened |
| 23:53.39 | poolio | well it's moreso a unix thing |
| 23:53.54 | poolio | or you need to set some sort of PATH variable, I'm not sure how this applies on windows though |
| 23:54.04 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/meVPax19.html |
| 23:55.10 | IriX64 | ill play around a little will let you know |
| 00:12.26 | IriX64 | my apologies, it works on cygwin side, latest build but not on windows side and path is set |
| 00:17.23 | IriX64 | no worries on your side this critters mine :) |
| 02:01.28 | IriX64 | poolio: it's the slashes (direction of them) that's getting me i think, i'll work something out |
| 02:37.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/tcl.c libbu/bu_tcl.c): Eliminated more direct access of interp->result |
| 02:51.03 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 06:15.25 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 07:56.11 | *** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) | |
| 07:58.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove interp->result check |
| 09:00.22 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 09:19.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): remove the final few remaining references to interp->result (both comments and code) |
| 09:55.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have not seen the walk_dispatcher bug in quite some time, so that just leaves the sketch editor holding up release |
| 09:57.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: say where the log file is |
| 10:04.56 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-100-98.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 10:07.58 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 10:11.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: make clean can clean up after benchmark runs too now. encourage clean instead of clobber so that the run files are kept. |
| 10:33.15 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-078-191.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 11:58.37 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 11:59.57 | AchiestDragon | hi all |
| 12:01.49 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 14:03.44 | poolio | brlcad: late night commits :) |
| 14:17.54 | brlcad | something like that :) |
| 14:17.59 | brlcad | howdy AchiestDragon |
| 14:18.05 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: funny post |
| 14:18.16 | AchiestDragon | :) |
| 14:18.20 | poolio | wait brlcad, did you sleep? :P |
| 14:18.26 | brlcad | what's that? |
| 14:18.50 | poolio | eek. |
| 14:19.00 | poolio | saw premier of live free or die hard, highly recommend it |
| 14:19.15 | brlcad | was thinking about that just an hour ago |
| 14:27.56 | *** join/#brlcad cad63 (n=a05bf84d@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:29.09 | brlcad | hello cad63 |
| 14:29.26 | AchiestDragon | thinks i have some dependancy problems trying archer on linux atm |
| 14:29.40 | brlcad | there are issues unless you've fixed them |
| 14:29.46 | brlcad | doesn't load the blt library iirc |
| 14:29.54 | *** join/#brlcad TME (n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov) | |
| 14:29.55 | brlcad | so you get a loading window, but nothing after that |
| 14:30.07 | AchiestDragon | Error in startup script: couldn't load file "/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so": /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so: undefined symbol: png_read_des |
| 14:30.12 | AchiestDragon | yes |
| 14:30.14 | brlcad | ah, yeah, tkimg |
| 14:30.16 | brlcad | same thing |
| 14:30.34 | AchiestDragon | have a problem with mged also |
| 14:31.41 | TME | I'm trying to build a demo app off of rtexample.c and am getting compiler errors when I try to call rt_builddir |
| 14:31.55 | TME | Sorry, I meant rt_dirbuild |
| 14:32.28 | TME | The error is g++ -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include/brlcad -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include -g -O0 -c test.cc |
| 14:32.28 | TME | test.cc:31: error: at this point in file |
| 14:32.28 | TME | make: *** [test.o] Error 1 |
| 14:32.38 | AchiestDragon | i have a matrox g200 quad head graphics card and a matrox g550 dual head card in this system , set with xinerama so the desktop is spread over 6 monitors , but the framebuffer doses not update on some of them |
| 14:33.54 | brlcad | TME: does test.cc have main()? if you're linking, you need to specify the libraries too |
| 14:33.54 | AchiestDragon | but that maybe this machine as i have some problems with xconfig at startup and need to work arround them at power on |
| 14:34.43 | brlcad | TME: there should be an example compile line at the top of rtexample.c that includes the link |
| 14:35.31 | TME | brlcad: The code links, I only get a compile failure when I add the rtip = rt_dirbuild("test.g", idbuf, sizeof(idbuf)); statement |
| 14:36.19 | brlcad | TME: that makes sense if that's the first external call you're making |
| 14:36.35 | brlcad | sounds like you're missing the libraries on the compile line |
| 14:36.58 | brlcad | e.g. to compile rtexample, the line needs to be something like: cc -I/usr/brlcad/include/brlcad -L/usr/brlcad/lib -o rtexample rtexample.c -lbu -lrt -lm |
| 14:37.20 | TME | My make goes as follows:g++ -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include/brlcad -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include -g -O0 -c test.cc |
| 14:37.35 | TME | g++ -Xlinker -rpath . -Xlinker -rpath /data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/lib-o test.x test.o -L/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/lib -lrt -lbn -lbu -lopenNURBS -ltcl8.5 -lpthread -ldl -lm |
| 14:37.48 | brlcad | ah, that looks better |
| 14:38.07 | TME | the error I get on compile is |
| 14:38.53 | TME | did that go through |
| 14:39.13 | brlcad | nope |
| 14:39.21 | brlcad | try pastebinning it |
| 14:39.25 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 14:39.25 | ibot | [pastebin] a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 14:40.39 | Laniakea | brlcad: I think the bot should paste the pastebin description to pastebin. This way he's flooding the channel ;-) |
| 14:40.52 | AchiestDragon | lol |
| 14:41.03 | Laniakea | brlcad: does ibot have a Megahal capability? |
| 14:41.33 | TME | pastebin.ca/591963 |
| 14:42.22 | brlcad | ~megahal |
| 14:42.25 | ibot | i heard megahal is a cheap interface to an enormously huge text file full of crap or at http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/ |
| 14:42.49 | brlcad | TME: aha, thanks |
| 14:42.54 | brlcad | TME: what version are you on? |
| 14:43.41 | brlcad | ah, never mind -- i see your link line |
| 14:45.55 | TME | see http://pastebin.ca/591971 for example app |
| 14:45.58 | brlcad | TME: I believe that issue is related to prototypes, and should be fixed on CVS HEAD .. but not in 7.10.0 -- try adding -DUSE_PROTOTYPES to your CPPFLAGS |
| 14:46.19 | TME | I'll give it a go... |
| 14:46.58 | TME | cool, that worked |
| 14:47.14 | brlcad | great |
| 14:47.44 | TME | I noticed that I had to include libopenNURBS on the link line, is that new to 7.10.0? |
| 14:47.45 | brlcad | yeah, that's annoying -- still cleaning out the headers so that they don't assume our own brlcad_config.h is available |
| 14:48.10 | brlcad | USE_PROTOTYPES is defined in an autoconf build usually, but not in other situations |
| 14:48.31 | TME | should I move to CVS HEAD? |
| 14:48.37 | brlcad | yes, openNURBS is new to 7.10.0 -- it's part of an entirely new NURBS/BREP capability |
| 14:49.19 | brlcad | there should be a brlcad-config script that will tell you the libraries you need, or at least that were used |
| 14:49.22 | brlcad | -L/usr/brlcad/lib -lrt -lbn -lbu -lstdc++ -ltcl -lc -lm -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g |
| 14:49.25 | brlcad | e.g. $ brlcad-config --libs rt |
| 14:50.00 | TME | cool, I just used nm until I found the missing defines |
| 14:50.42 | brlcad | TME: it's up to you regarding cvs head -- things change and are fixed more rapidly there, but it's also not 100% stable 100% of the time of course because it's actively changing |
| 14:51.09 | brlcad | mishaps like the jove file missing, however, are quickly fixed |
| 14:51.32 | TME | ahhh, you include libstdc++ on the link-line, that's how you still use C |
| 14:51.38 | brlcad | :) |
| 14:51.51 | brlcad | -fexeceptions is also required if you're using gcc |
| 14:52.07 | brlcad | otherwise you'll end up with internal C++ exception handlers not being resolved |
| 14:52.26 | TME | generally, I build C++ apps and only use C for numeric kernels so I can use restrict for better loop unrolling |
| 14:53.13 | TME | thanks for the help, I'll go give this a spin, but I'll probably be back to get some advice on building brlcad |
| 14:53.20 | TME | with NVIDIA libGL |
| 14:53.27 | brlcad | brl-cad's libraries are vastly C-only, performance oriented, etc -- but adding nurbs/brep support is such a major effort that it's use was warranted (and openNURBS is entirely C++) |
| 14:54.01 | brlcad | if you do use CVS HEAD, I'd suggest hanging out on irc .. i'm usually here 24/7, barring a couple hours here and there |
| 14:54.18 | brlcad | can generally answer these sorts of questions quickly |
| 14:54.24 | TME | thanks |
| 14:54.27 | brlcad | np |
| 14:57.09 | brlcad | erm, I was around .. save for a few hours in the morning :) |
| 14:57.22 | poolio | jah. that's when i got frustrated and tossed my monitor out the window though |
| 14:57.43 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:58.34 | brlcad | hm, I really should get the new website online if only to set up a knowledge base |
| 14:58.55 | brlcad | for now, though, it's time for lunch me thinks |
| 14:59.03 | poolio | time for my breakfast. :) |
| 15:21.20 | Laniakea | the http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/ link is a deadlink |
| 15:25.18 | AchiestDragon | well solid modeling takes on a diferent form when you fail to have modeling software to do it http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Tinybug-outside-1.jpg&oldid=604 |
| 15:29.50 | poolio | AchiestDragon: cool, making a spidey? |
| 15:30.10 | AchiestDragon | yes |
| 15:33.08 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: nifty |
| 15:33.43 | brlcad | Laniakea: yeah, I noticed.. no idea what hal was anyways other than as it relates to HAL ;) |
| 15:34.07 | Laniakea | brlcad: does brl-cad already compile on OpenBSD? |
| 15:34.15 | brlcad | it should with no problems |
| 15:34.30 | Laniakea | brlcad: does it need some libraries it didn't need before? |
| 15:51.21 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to encapsulate data from hit() and miss() calls of the raytracer? I need to give the hit and miss calls certain parameteres but don't see any way to do that other than making them global vars? |
| 15:59.37 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 16:03.16 | brlcad | Laniakea: none come to mind, brl-cad provides all of its external dependencies for situations where they're not installed |
| 16:03.54 | brlcad | only things it doesn't include are the X11, C, and curses/termcap libraries |
| 16:12.28 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 16:12.47 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 16:14.30 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 16:19.27 | IriX64 | got it poolio, works now it was the search of the path, need to set the unix path first :) |
| 16:20.39 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/kicshw94.html <----- see |
| 16:22.29 | IriX64 | fortunatly you can mix unix path with windereze path :) |
| 16:26.00 | IriX64 | is fbserv tied only to /dev/X or can you use /dev/ogl ? |
| 16:27.26 | IriX64 | x framebuffer comes up |
| 16:27.40 | IriX64 | ogl is missing tho |
| 16:28.41 | IriX64 | let me check that tutorial :) |
| 16:30.51 | brlcad | you can use any fbserv that shows up when you run fbhelp |
| 16:31.27 | brlcad | it needs at least a port number and usually a framebuffer type like, fbserv 10 /dev/ogl |
| 16:31.37 | brlcad | then with rt, you run rt -F10 |
| 16:33.07 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/vSrhWH43.html all these are available then nice. |
| 16:38.05 | IriX64 | -S 690 is a bit large your -S 512 is a bit better i think |
| 16:40.28 | poolio | brlcad: any solution to the RT encapsulation issue? The issue is I have a nasty global that must exist and I'm not sure how that'll do on parallel systems |
| 16:40.38 | IriX64 | building again heh |
| 16:41.00 | IriX64 | poolio: thanks man |
| 16:41.34 | poolio | IriX64: I didn't do nothing :) |
| 16:55.59 | IriX64 | yeah you did you turned me on to this funky path thing :) |
| 16:56.18 | IriX64 | sorry if i scared the developers |
| 16:57.10 | IriX64 | the command line parsing has probably been stable and frozen for 20 years, and i go off and accuse, shame on me |
| 17:00.20 | IriX64 | something else wrong tho the ogl frame buffer comes back with 3400 but no display altho the faceplate comes up on ogl |
| 17:00.34 | IriX64 | x buffer is fine |
| 17:01.43 | IriX64 | rt works cute |
| 17:03.07 | IriX64 | haha my transplanted ls works, how sweet is that :) |
| 17:09.33 | IriX64 | the irix32 blog man, first pix in the brlcad albumn |
| 17:10.46 | IriX64 | the process running in the command window is a little bat file to straighten out the path thing and startup mged :) |
| 17:12.25 | IriX64 | exec tclsh does something but i know squat about tcl |
| 17:12.45 | brlcad | throttle it back IriX64 |
| 17:12.52 | IriX64 | sure sorry |
| 17:12.53 | brlcad | poolio: what encapsulation issue? |
| 17:16.41 | brlcad | poolio: as for having a global that "must exist", that's rarely the case but also not the end of the world ;) |
| 17:30.16 | poolio | brlcad: so when you raytrace something and call rt_shootray(), it then calls two user-defined methods one for if there is a hit, and for if there is a miss. I do my ray comparison as they come in so i need the hit/miss functions to have access to the stored "source" |
| 17:31.03 | poolio | But don't see a way to transmit a pointer to that data, and I can't return the data I need from the hit/miss functions because they have to return an int and my data is a fastf_t (also: is fastf_t a float) ? |
| 17:32.01 | brlcad | fastf_t should be a double on most systems, though it can be set to a float or other type |
| 17:32.10 | poolio | oh alright |
| 17:35.35 | brlcad | poolio: you do have a means to pass around data.. |
| 17:35.44 | brlcad | that's the purpose of the application structure |
| 17:35.53 | brlcad | which is the param to the callbacks |
| 17:36.36 | brlcad | the application structure has fields for numbers, pointers, vectors, etc .. and it has custom stuff for tracking segment lists (since that's the most common need/use) |
| 17:36.43 | brlcad | see include/raytace.h |
| 17:37.01 | poolio | oh I didn't see a pointer that I could use |
| 17:37.07 | poolio | ah genptr_t |
| 17:37.09 | poolio | d'oh |
| 17:37.31 | poolio | Yeah I was using a_user but guess i missed a_uptr |
| 17:39.23 | brlcad | yeah, genptr_t is a void* |
| 17:39.29 | brlcad | on most platforms at least |
| 17:41.33 | poolio | alright hurray, thanks. |
| 17:41.46 | poolio | I was probably skimming the structs looking fora n asterisk and ... |
| 17:43.08 | IriX64 | is bwish a must have brlcad? |
| 17:43.32 | brlcad | IriX64: for a public distribution, yes -- for personal use, no |
| 17:43.40 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 17:43.45 | brlcad | only a few tools use bwish, and I don't think you've discovered them yet :) |
| 17:43.53 | IriX64 | true :) |
| 17:47.14 | IriX64 | public distribution.... if i tell anybody outside this channel i've got a mostly working brlcad for windows 2000 and up they'll laff me off the planet :) |
| 17:48.31 | brlcad | plus, if you can't get bwish to build, then mged shouldn't build |
| 17:48.40 | brlcad | dependency-wise, they're almost identical |
| 17:48.54 | IriX64 | not that it doesn't build issues at runtime |
| 17:49.52 | IriX64 | take it bwish is a superset of wish? |
| 17:53.12 | brlcad | sort of, sure |
| 17:53.23 | IriX64 | i see the & operator is required for anything you exec |
| 17:53.28 | brlcad | wish with the brl-cad libraries preloaded |
| 17:53.38 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 17:54.34 | IriX64 | i have the btclsh loaded how do i get a help or usage screen |
| 17:55.55 | brlcad | it's a tcl shell -- there's no interactive help |
| 17:56.24 | IriX64 | thankyou seems to work, complains about invalid commands anyway :) |
| 17:56.35 | brlcad | if it complains, then it's probably not right :) |
| 17:56.46 | IriX64 | i'll arrest it |
| 17:56.52 | brlcad | oh, unless you mean when you give it invalid commands |
| 17:57.04 | brlcad | if it writes messages when you just start it though, then something's probably not right |
| 17:57.07 | IriX64 | true i know not what is valid |
| 17:57.20 | IriX64 | no messages just a pid |
| 17:57.50 | IriX64 | and prompt says mged> is that accurate? |
| 17:58.24 | brlcad | not unless you ran mged |
| 17:58.42 | IriX64 | i did then exec btclsh & |
| 17:58.55 | brlcad | oh, you mean from within mged?? |
| 17:59.00 | IriX64 | yes |
| 17:59.02 | brlcad | that won't work |
| 17:59.09 | IriX64 | it does :) |
| 17:59.15 | poolio | sph(i35.s): zero length A(0.000199928), B(0.000199928), or C(0.000199928) vector |
| 17:59.19 | brlcad | at least it won't do anything it's supposed to |
| 17:59.25 | poolio | that's not zero! |
| 17:59.31 | brlcad | you're trying to run an interpreter in an interpreter |
| 17:59.37 | IriX64 | yes |
| 17:59.48 | brlcad | you backgrounded it, so it you don't get the error, but you also can't talk to it |
| 17:59.51 | brlcad | which is useless |
| 18:00.02 | IriX64 | but it talks back :) |
| 18:00.07 | IriX64 | along with mged |
| 18:00.22 | brlcad | it just "writes" back .. you just made a process you can't communicate with |
| 18:00.32 | brlcad | you can't even directly kill it |
| 18:00.39 | IriX64 | so why does it tell me invalid command |
| 18:00.54 | brlcad | huh? why does what tell you invalid command? |
| 18:01.00 | IriX64 | btclsh |
| 18:01.09 | brlcad | you're not in btclsh! |
| 18:01.14 | IriX64 | ok |
| 18:03.36 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/LIUt1z76.html <--- i mean i know i'm slow but i'm not blind yet. |
| 18:06.17 | IriX64 | ctrl-c gets me out |
| 18:15.56 | brlcad | help only works on mged commands, btclsh is not an mged command so no help |
| 18:16.36 | brlcad | doing "exec btclsh &" is entirely useless .. you can't talk to that btclsh instance |
| 18:16.54 | brlcad | it will print its output is all |
| 18:16.57 | brlcad | which is a prompt |
| 18:17.02 | brlcad | you can't type on that prompt though |
| 18:17.14 | brlcad | which is what I said earlier -- it writes back, but you can't talk to it |
| 18:18.54 | brlcad | poolio: it should probably say "near zero length" -- it's below the current computation tolerance |
| 18:19.24 | brlcad | a sphere with a 0.01mm radius |
| 18:19.58 | poolio | brlcad: Well it completely thrases the program and tries to dump a stack trace and always fails and eats CPU until I kill it |
| 18:20.13 | poolio | brlcad: I guess I'll do my own error checking on it so that doesn't happen |
| 18:20.48 | brlcad | hmm, sounds like something else is wrong elsewhere |
| 18:21.02 | poolio | brlcad: No, rand() just came up with a really low number |
| 18:21.14 | poolio | and it keeps coming up with it cause I'm using the same seed and bn_random |
| 18:21.27 | poolio | but there are other bugs i'm working on ... |
| 18:21.41 | brlcad | ah |
| 18:21.57 | brlcad | bn_random is going to give you numbers normalized between 0 -> 1 |
| 18:22.11 | brlcad | those shouldn't be primitive parameters :) |
| 18:22.16 | poolio | Yes I know, and I multiply it by some scalar, but if that number is close to zero... |
| 18:22.33 | poolio | brlcad: They aren't, I guess I'll set some minimum and have MIN + SCALE * rand |
| 18:22.42 | brlcad | sure, there's an absolute minimum size for each primitive |
| 18:22.58 | brlcad | just take the case of zero even .. if it hits zero you can have lots of badness |
| 18:23.08 | poolio | yeah... |
| 18:24.25 | poolio | There's something messed up with my raytrace comparison ... and I was so sure it was bulletproof... |
| 18:24.41 | poolio | 4: r:1.30367 f:96 |
| 18:24.41 | poolio | 5: r:6.69046 f:96 |
| 18:24.53 | poolio | fitness should be proportional to radius ergggh |
| 18:26.06 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:26.48 | poolio | Everything was working and then when I cleaned up the code and added random generation. BOOM. I think I need to do a bit more design before I start coding in the future |
| 18:29.12 | IriX64 | screwed up the mug again but it did save the database, I'm happy :) |
| 18:46.12 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the brlcad albumn first 3 pix, all done entirely on the windows side of the box |
| 19:01.16 | IriX64 | you know you should put some recent pictures up on your web page, yours are so interesting |
| 19:02.25 | brlcad | that takes a lot of effort |
| 19:02.47 | IriX64 | really? not screen shot utility for unix? |
| 19:04.09 | IriX64 | give them to me, i'll send back a .png for you :) |
| 19:04.40 | brlcad | the images are easy |
| 19:04.44 | brlcad | i have hundreds of images |
| 19:05.01 | brlcad | getting approval to release them takes a lot of effort |
| 19:05.16 | IriX64 | ok now i understand |
| 19:05.48 | IriX64 | too many people can download them is that it? |
| 19:07.56 | IriX64 | thanks for stryker it just became my wallpaper :) |
| 19:09.05 | poolio | brlcad: off topic: any suggestions for a keyboard? My current one is dying and the keys are sticking so I'm off to buy one later today :) |
| 19:09.44 | archivist | remove crumbs from kb |
| 19:10.06 | poolio | archivist: keyboard is beyond repair, i've taken the kesy off and cleaned and put back, i think the springs are dying |
| 19:10.12 | archivist | but the remote logitech has lasted well for me |
| 19:10.22 | poolio | and i dont like using my laptop keyboard when it's plugged into my monitor |
| 19:10.29 | poolio | yeah i'm debating whether to try out an ergonomic one |
| 19:12.16 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos stuff albumn pix of my stryker desktop |
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| 19:29.38 | IriX64 | wherever clock is, i'm sorry if i made him popular, but he gave his ok ;) |
| 19:29.55 | brlcad | poolio: i'm a bit partial to the mac pro keyboard (and it works with linux, windows, etc) |
| 19:30.05 | brlcad | great tactile response |
| 19:30.47 | brlcad | Das Keyboard II is fun too |
| 19:38.22 | IriX64 | man, how many framebuffers can i use :) |
| 19:40.24 | poolio | brlcad: yeah I don't really like the mac pro keyboards, the keys are too close together for me or something |
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| 19:57.47 | IriX64 | if you honor -DSOLARIS, your solaris specific code passes muster |
| 20:00.43 | brlcad | that define doesn't do anything |
| 20:01.00 | IriX64 | no support behind it? |
| 20:01.06 | IriX64 | i didnt check |
| 20:01.09 | brlcad | it doesn't mean anything |
| 20:01.15 | brlcad | might as well do -DIrix64 |
| 20:01.27 | brlcad | you can't just make up names :) |
| 20:01.42 | brlcad | well you can, but that doesn't mean they'll do anything at all |
| 20:01.45 | poolio | -DDEBUG =P |
| 20:01.53 | IriX64 | understood. |
| 20:02.48 | brlcad | i imagine you saw -DBSD and thought that meant something .. if you did, it doesn't mean what you think it means |
| 20:03.07 | IriX64 | thanks man i learn here |
| 20:04.17 | IriX64 | well i have an exact same build then as with -DBSD right as well as without -D anything at all, i've learned |
| 20:04.51 | brlcad | because bsd refers to calling api semantics |
| 20:05.06 | brlcad | bsd vs sysv style, which most platforms support both these days |
| 20:05.27 | brlcad | aside from just most of the code that used BSD now no longer uses it |
| 20:06.29 | IriX64 | think i'll throw a -DSYSV5 in there to prove that to myself, shouldn't crash right |
| 20:06.45 | brlcad | you're still making up symbols :P |
| 20:06.50 | IriX64 | heh |
| 20:06.59 | brlcad | that won't do jack |
| 20:07.15 | IriX64 | looks pretty |
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| 20:12.41 | IriX64 | brlcad this silly thing is insisting i have sgigl again wasn't anything i did |
| 20:13.44 | IriX64 | i just comment out the define in brlcad_config.h for now is seems to be sufficient |
| 20:55.33 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos 1st 2 pictures are rtedge in action |
| 21:01.48 | IriX64 | is there no dwg to g tool? |
| 21:27.03 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/rEyujP49.html <--- you were right, it's gotten this far with no effect :) |
| 21:30.28 | IriX64 | problem i have now is how to display a stackdump |
| 21:31.26 | IriX64 | hmmm mc for windows? |
| 21:32.32 | *** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@krum.ethz.ch) | |
| 22:01.40 | IriX64 | trying to rename the root folder of cygwin while i'm doing a copy from a folder in there, sheeesh :) |
| 22:03.25 | IriX64 | btw mc crossed (I'm happy as a lark, people will be able to view stackdumps and whatnot) |
| 22:04.26 | IriX64 | not that brlcad ever produces stackdumps *ahem :) |
| 22:06.39 | IriX64 | gotta reboot for this, l8r |
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| 22:55.44 | IriX64 | mc is out (i'm not going to delve into the code to make it work) relies too heavily on the *nix directory structure |
| 22:56.18 | IriX64 | ill have them e-mail stack dumps |
| 23:05.59 | IriX64 | without the cygwin folder i successfully brought up the faceplate and a framebuffer i'm happy |
| 23:06.20 | IriX64 | using Xwin32 no cygwin-x |
| 23:16.55 | IriX64 | geometry works rt works what else can i try that would make this thing work for you? |
| 23:20.19 | IriX64 | ls is looking for tmp sigh |
| 23:21.46 | IriX64 | no it's not it's gone again sigh gotta stop moving things around, cy'all l8r |
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| 02:55.03 | poolio | evening coding again :) |
| 03:15.04 | brlcad | woot |
| 03:15.39 | poolio | haha this happens almost every night. I announce I'm coding and you say woot. woot :) |
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| 03:57.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.h population.c population.h beset.c fitness.c): implemented basic GA framework |
| 03:58.14 | poolio | and gnite :) I'll try to make it actually functional in the morning...right now the fitness function is FUBAR even though it worked fine before |
| 03:58.50 | brlcad | woot |
| 03:58.55 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:59.10 | brlcad | progress is progress |
| 03:59.14 | poolio | brlcad: you can test it if you want, it's not functional but ... it's moving along |
| 03:59.31 | brlcad | I'm waiting for just a little more before I start poking ;) |
| 04:00.34 | poolio | yeah, I'd like to have pretty much a full one-shape implementation. (has to figure out which primitive it is and the orientation) |
| 04:00.59 | poolio | Hopefully also switch to trees and geting some sort of wrapper to the shapes instead of my current "assume it's a sphere" approach |
| 04:03.11 | brlcad | just remember that CSG trees have two distinct node types -- leaf nodes are always primitives, other nodes are operators/combinations |
| 04:03.33 | poolio | I think I'm going to limit it to operators for now, but yeah I got that |
| 04:03.44 | poolio | (no combinations) |
| 04:03.52 | brlcad | combinations are operators in a way |
| 04:04.05 | brlcad | at least they're just a container for the operation |
| 04:04.34 | poolio | yeah but if I have it in a CSG tree, aren't all internal combinations essentially useless? |
| 04:04.58 | poolio | well useful for say organization, but irrelevant for creating different candidates |
| 04:06.22 | brlcad | er, the difference is mostly semantic |
| 04:06.31 | poolio | yeah |
| 04:06.55 | brlcad | a "combination" is a csg operation .. so if you have a CSG "tree" then you have combinations |
| 04:06.57 | poolio | brlcad: also on a somewhat different point, is it ok that my proress is so slow? I'm having a lot of problems with segfaults / code that isn't functioning how I intended... |
| 04:07.06 | brlcad | your progress is fine |
| 04:07.25 | brlcad | exactly what I expected so far .. :) |
| 04:07.29 | poolio | alright. I'm kind of in a rut getting this initial stuff working, but I think progress should be picking up |
| 04:07.35 | brlcad | you've got along ways ahead still |
| 04:07.37 | poolio | Well i'm upset I wasn't able to exceed your expectations |
| 04:08.06 | brlcad | I'm realistic, it's a pretty hefty task just to implement, much less make functional |
| 04:08.14 | brlcad | s/less/more/ |
| 04:08.44 | poolio | Well, the amount of code and what it does isn't very impressive. My main issue has been understanding interacting with the established brl-cad routines and also fixing my earlier mistakes |
| 04:09.16 | brlcad | dude, don't be so hard on yourself -- you're making great progress :) |
| 04:09.40 | poolio | eh, it makes me get more done :) |
| 04:10.10 | poolio | I've also never done such a large scale project and commited this much time, so it's quite the experience |
| 04:10.14 | poolio | and I appreciate the freedom you're giving me |
| 04:11.18 | brlcad | having liberty to "do your thing" is important to just about every developer, even me |
| 04:12.04 | brlcad | that's where/why the talks we've already had to date are so important |
| 04:12.47 | brlcad | we're at least coinciding fully on the big picture, aware of the goals, scope, and intent .. efforts are visible, progress is evident, life is good ;) |
| 04:13.09 | poolio | good good. |
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| 04:15.08 | brlcad | and not to forget that you're helping me with my goals too .. I'm very appreciative of how hard you're working |
| 04:15.20 | brlcad | that will make it that much easier to expand this into a much bigger program down the road |
| 04:15.20 | poolio | heh, I'm being compensated, all is well |
| 04:15.34 | poolio | Well I'd guess if you really want to expand this a lot of stuff should be rewritten from the ground up |
| 04:15.51 | poolio | for example, I think there are tons of optimizations that could be done in the raytracing area |
| 04:15.54 | poolio | well maybe not tons, but quite a few |
| 04:16.25 | brlcad | you'd probably be surprised, but yes, there is always room for improvement ;) |
| 04:17.03 | poolio | but yeah... must not forget "premautre optimization is the root of all evil" |
| 04:18.42 | brlcad | also remember that brl-cad's been doing ray-tracing for .. a very long time -- with the constraints of solid modeling and full-shotline ray evaluation, there are limits compared to what you can do with, say, a polygonal visual-only evaluation |
| 04:19.29 | poolio | I wasn't really saying in the raytracer, but in some of the application structures and pointers and memory being passed around. Although I don't thi nk that's the bottleneck of the raytracing so .... |
| 04:19.39 | brlcad | yeah, that's nowhere near the bottleneck |
| 04:19.55 | poolio | The fitness function could for sure be cleaned up. My algorithm for comparing shot-line rays is pretty slow |
| 04:20.13 | brlcad | most of the time is spent in the primitive evaluation, spatial partitioning (the accelleration structure), and boolean evaluation |
| 04:20.38 | brlcad | those three generally consume 90% of the time in a given ray-trace |
| 04:20.51 | poolio | Yeah, I'm still worried about how boolean operators will perform on a GA |
| 04:21.32 | brlcad | hard to say without seeing how hard it is for it to converge on an arbitrary box |
| 04:21.43 | poolio | true. that should be in the works shortly |
| 04:22.43 | brlcad | if it can actually converge on a box (which is certainly not a given), then it "should" just be a matter of processing power for it to converge on any CSG structure |
| 04:22.47 | poolio | also I don't think I want the GA to work and try to find the optimum solution, just try to get it near-optimal and then use some sort of gradient descent to try to find the optimal |
| 04:24.10 | poolio | brlcad: well also remember we're adding in another dimension when we add in boolean operators, well more than one dimension but instead of just orientation there's also relative scale |
| 04:24.12 | brlcad | that's where simulated annealing is relevant, effectively a means for performing a gradient descent |
| 04:25.55 | poolio | also I think convergence on CSG trees in general is goign to be highly dependent on the parameters to the GA, such as the size, mutation rates, etc...and also what we want to let mutate etc... |
| 04:26.16 | brlcad | there are also a ton of knobs you can tweak on the GA itself .. mutation levels, population sizes, evaluation criteria, crossover rates, biased member selections/promotions, etc |
| 04:26.32 | brlcad | heh, yup |
| 04:26.33 | poolio | ahaha :) |
| 04:27.11 | poolio | Maybe have some sort of meta-ga to try to optimize the parameters to the ga on a simple problem and see how that scales to more coplex problems |
| 05:28.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-X10.1 pl-X10.c): pl-X10 is obsolete, removing it |
| 06:00.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: decouple libdm from librt |
| 06:02.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libdm actually presently uses librt, so make sure it's listed as a libs dependency. add the carbon framework when we're on os x for the new application focus routine. |
| 06:05.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/dm.h src/libdm/focus.c src/libdm/Makefile.am): |
| 06:05.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add a new dm_applicationfocus() call that will attempt to bring the invoked |
| 06:05.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: application to the current focus -- this is useful/interesting on Mac OS X where |
| 06:05.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: X11 applications are not focused by default when invoked via various means (e.g. |
| 06:05.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: double-clicking or via Terminal). |
| 06:07.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: wow, needs libfb too (e.g., for X24_interface in dm_obj.c) |
| 06:09.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-X.c): move the focus code into libdm as a somewhat more generic dm_applicationfocus() call, even if only/presently implementing support for focusing X11 on Mac OS X. |
| 06:12.10 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 06:12.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: bring application to focus if needed via dm_applicationfocus() |
| 06:42.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: additional library dependencies that aren't spelled out .. results in really long/redundant link lines for some binaries, but should be comprehensive for each library by itself. |
| 06:43.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged and pl-X automatically focus to X11 on Mac OS X |
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| 11:01.32 | IriX64 | can someone do an anonymous ftp to ftp://www3.sympatico.ca and tell me what you see? |
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| 11:23.15 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, an old test build |
| 11:32.12 | IriX64 | theres a mite in the window title :) |
| 12:54.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: need to fix/check these headers -- should be noinst or in include/ |
| 12:56.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/Makefile.am: add the missing build files, header files, and add the needed libraries so that it compiles and will distcheck successfully |
| 12:59.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.h fitness.h population.c population.h): add headers/footers as needed |
| 13:05.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: include BRLCAD and BRLCAD_LIBS for libbrlcad |
| 13:39.54 | poolio | brlcad: ah oops, thanks :) |
| 13:45.19 | poolio | brlcad: did you see some of my comments "/* EEEEEEEEEK WHAT IF RAND() IS ZEROOOOOO!?!? */ |
| 13:46.29 | brlcad | yup |
| 13:46.54 | poolio | uh oh |
| 13:47.17 | poolio | any general comments/suggestions before I continue further? |
| 14:20.09 | IriX64 | poolio: while(RAND()) { do whatever } |
| 14:20.12 | IriX64 | :) |
| 14:22.32 | poolio | IriX64: errr not quite, but that's also a bad idea :) |
| 14:22.53 | poolio | I believe BN_RANDOM() is 0,1 exclusive so it'd be an infinite loop |
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| 15:18.38 | IriX64 | heh loops are forever :) |
| 15:20.27 | poolio | funroll loops would be a great name for a cereal :) |
| 15:30.31 | IriX64 | loops of fun :) |
| 15:32.02 | poolio | brlcad: is there an already implemented float comparison macro or something in brlcad? |
| 15:36.32 | poolio | nevermind, got it |
| 15:46.23 | *** join/#brlcad TME (n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov) | |
| 15:46.54 | TME | hi again, quick question, is there a fast way to automatically read in all regions |
| 15:47.13 | TME | when I use rt_gettree() I need to specify one region at a time |
| 15:49.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/rand.c): document more explicitly which random number tables are open intervals and which are closed -- the smaller table is open, the big table (halfrand) is closed. |
| 15:49.28 | poolio | brlcad: haha, was that in response to an incorrect comment I made earlier? :P |
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| 16:00.00 | brlcad | TME: yes, after you do a dirbuild, you can just iterate over all hashtable entries |
| 16:00.18 | brlcad | poolio: it wasn't incorrect -- but I did point you to the wrong random number routine I think |
| 16:00.27 | poolio | BN_RANDOM? |
| 16:00.57 | brlcad | instead of BN_RANDOM, you're probably better off using bn_rand0to1() or bn_rand_half() |
| 16:01.14 | poolio | alright, what's the difference? |
| 16:01.18 | brlcad | they pull from larger random number pools |
| 16:01.24 | poolio | oh alright |
| 16:01.29 | brlcad | period of 16k instead of 4k |
| 16:01.44 | brlcad | with the same performance |
| 16:01.58 | poolio | I figured out why the fitness function wasn't working, well, I see when it doesnt work but I don't get why. If I input whole numbers as a radius it works, if the radius is not a whole number it just gives bogus results |
| 16:02.19 | brlcad | not a big deal since either will work, but should give better variation |
| 16:02.36 | poolio | yeah, for now it doesn't matter but when it comes to actually testing it may |
| 16:02.48 | brlcad | now the large tables are closed .. so you will have to account for 0 and 1, whereas the BN_* routines pull from the smaller tables that are open |
| 16:03.28 | poolio | ok |
| 16:03.41 | brlcad | unless you just leave it at the smaller table |
| 16:03.46 | brlcad | which is fine too :) |
| 16:04.42 | poolio | hmm. any ideas why if a number is say 1.0 it works fine but if it's 1.000001 or something it throws out completely different results? |
| 16:05.33 | brlcad | need more info |
| 16:05.47 | brlcad | too many it's in there |
| 16:05.55 | brlcad | and/or I'm starving.. back in a few :) |
| 16:05.56 | poolio | I can update CVS but it's probably better if I just keep working on it |
| 16:05.59 | poolio | alright cya |
| 16:06.12 | brlcad | commit early, commit often ;) |
| 16:06.26 | poolio | well, I want to commit code that compiles :) |
| 16:06.32 | poolio | don't want to blowup the source tree |
| 16:06.42 | brlcad | well, yeah, that'd be good :) |
| 16:15.24 | poolio | brlcad: I think my problem might have to do with the raytracer, although I highly doubt it... it'd just mean my code wasn't so messed up :) |
| 16:54.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: increase the number of iterations to converge when tracing, and tighten up the tolerance on convergence |
| 16:55.41 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 16:57.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: move ON_Ray to opennurbs_curve.h, since only curves need to know about rays for now (CloseTo operation) |
| 17:00.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: fix memory leak when handling curves |
| 17:08.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix memory leak on converter deletion |
| 17:10.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug acne problems, sort hits properly; continue to flesh out edge detection |
| 17:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: add CloseTo skeleton |
| 17:17.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: move ON_Ray here, for use with CloseTo method; CloseTo() declaration |
| 17:20.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: implement method to force a value to be within an interval |
| 17:21.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.h: Bound method prototype |
| 17:37.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: add closest point estimate method extensions (i.e. returning the subdomain where the estimate resides) |
| 17:39.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: attempt to fix closestPoint convergence failure with converting fragment IGES file |
| 17:50.44 | poolio | someone is hard at work and it isn't me :) |
| 17:58.31 | TME | sorry, I can't find the hash table in struct rt_i |
| 17:58.42 | TME | do you mean **region? |
| 18:01.41 | TME | sorry, I meant **Regions |
| 18:02.10 | TME | if so, what is the size, as I can't see the correct way to use bu_list here |
| 18:05.18 | poolio | brlcad: I'm really tempted to say there is a bug with the raytracer :\ |
| 18:11.18 | TME | brlcad: woops, I think I found it; guess I should actually read comments in the code ;) |
| 18:29.49 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=xz74b7vx@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-79b7a398b9e25ebc) | |
| 18:31.20 | MinuteElectron | Hi, I am looking for brlcad (the user on SourceForge). |
| 18:33.14 | poolio | Aren't we all ;) |
| 18:36.45 | MinuteElectron | Ohm |
| 18:37.19 | MinuteElectron | I thought there was a user called 'brlcad'. |
| 18:37.50 | poolio | There is, he goes by the IRC nick brlcad, and he's pretty active here, just wait around a bit or ask what it is you want to ask and he'll be back shortly I'm sure |
| 18:39.34 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, okay. Thanks. |
| 18:39.46 | poolio | Anything anyone else can help you with? |
| 18:41.13 | MinuteElectron | Well, it was to do with the help wanted message regarding the website. I was interested in helping, I replied to the messgae, but came here in the hope of more information. |
| 18:41.35 | MinuteElectron | It doesn't matter really, anything important can wait until a reply to the email |
| 18:42.11 | *** join/#brlcad SuperTaz (n=taz@adsl-69-211-3-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) | |
| 18:42.31 | poolio | MinuteElectron: Just FYI, everything moves slowly :) or atleast that's what brlcad has told me |
| 18:43.05 | MinuteElectron | Hehe. |
| 18:50.52 | brlcad | howdy MinuteElectron |
| 18:51.15 | brlcad | TME: hehe, np .. if you need a snippet, just lemme know |
| 18:53.36 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Hi, |
| 18:54.06 | MinuteElectron | I will be offline for a few minutes while I switch to my main PC. |
| 18:54.13 | MinuteElectron | brb |
| 18:54.15 | brlcad | no problem, I'll be here ;) |
| 18:55.39 | poolio | He's probably a robot looking for some loot |
| 18:57.26 | brlcad | might have a web dev interested in improving the horrid website |
| 18:57.50 | poolio | it is horrid :) |
| 18:58.42 | brlcad | the old one was even worse, imho |
| 18:59.03 | poolio | brlcad: hey, I just commited a bunch of stuff, and was wondering if you could have a quick look |
| 18:59.03 | brlcad | and I didn't want to bring it forward, so it was intentionally made very minimal until someone had time to dedicate towards it |
| 18:59.19 | poolio | brlcad: the issue is when the sphere is not a whole number, it goes berserk, well, wrong numbers |
| 18:59.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h population.h): single sphere partially working |
| 18:59.46 | poolio | so create a database with a single sphere with a radius of say 4.0, run the program, and then try it with something like 4.01 |
| 19:00.12 | poolio | run as ./beset database.g 1 1 sphere_name.s junk |
| 19:00.29 | poolio | I should really killoff the extra argument that means nothing and give a usage message |
| 19:00.32 | poolio | oh well :P |
| 19:00.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:05.18 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) | |
| 19:05.34 | MinuteElectron | Hi again, sorry that took longer than expected. |
| 19:06.23 | brlcad | read you e-mail, glad to hear about the interest so quickly |
| 19:06.36 | MinuteElectron | Okay, I will look now. |
| 19:06.45 | brlcad | I presume you've seen the horrid existing website? :) |
| 19:08.07 | brlcad | erm, I said I read it.. I hadn't replied yet |
| 19:08.27 | MinuteElectron | Oh, sorry. My misunderstanding. |
| 19:09.05 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, it isn't that bad if you just want is to give a small bit of info about the program - but I see you want a lot more than that. |
| 19:10.34 | brlcad | do you know much about brl-cad or is this the first you've heard of it? |
| 19:12.53 | MinuteElectron | This is actually the first time I have heard of it, I was just browsing the Help wanted lists and found this project. I was suprised to find it as it was so big (most other projects I have worked on before are fairly small and the owners 'disappeared' after a few weeks) and I would like to work on something a bit bigger and a bit more long-term than previous thing I have done. |
| 19:15.01 | MinuteElectron | *surprised |
| 19:17.15 | MinuteElectron | brb, reconfiguring IRC setup. |
| 19:17.52 | poolio | brlcad: any chance you could give my issue a look or are you a bit overloaded right now? |
| 19:18.30 | brlcad | yeah, brl-cad's not going away anytime soon by a long shot -- we get massive attention if only because the task of writing cad software can be so complex requiring so much effort, but brl-cad is by far the farthest along |
| 19:19.10 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) | |
| 19:19.25 | MinuteElectron | Cool. |
| 19:19.36 | brlcad | we also loose a lot of attention, though, simply because our "face" is ugly -- the website and the main modeler |
| 19:19.44 | brlcad | they are both big priorities though |
| 19:19.49 | MinuteElectron | I see. |
| 19:28.05 | brlcad | so, any thoughts on the task at hand? presume from your message that you have some layout/design experience too, maybe have a look n' feel in mind or were you interested in some of the template work done to date, or .. ? |
| 19:29.42 | brlcad | also, have you ever worked with ldap? would be nice to use that as a means to tie mediawiki and drupal auth systems together .. though the mediawiki mods posted to drupal's website would also work |
| 19:29.46 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 19:30.09 | brlcad | poolio: a bit overloaded, but I'm compiling it now |
| 19:35.12 | MinuteElectron | Well, I am not the best at designing things (most of the designs for my websites are basic, yet clean and efficent) you are probably looking for something a bit more... snazzy so I can give it a good try. Regarding the technical aspect of things: ldap is quite possible, it is well supported on the MediaWiki side of things to so it shouldn't be difficult to integrate. If you like I can create... |
| 19:35.14 | MinuteElectron | ...a possible look and feel of the website and put it on my computer-server and you can then give the good and bad points and I can expand on that, or would you rather do this a different way. |
| 19:36.04 | MinuteElectron | There is not much point in me setting up a MediaWiki and drupal combination on this machine as things are extremely difficult to transfer to and from SourceForge's web servers. |
| 19:41.47 | *** part/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 19:48.58 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: You busy? |
| 19:58.31 | brlcad | quite, gimmie a sec :) |
| 19:59.38 | MinuteElectron | ok, np |
| 20:07.27 | poolio | brlcad: I guess I'll catch you tomorrow or later tonight, I have to run a few errands. |
| 20:13.33 | MinuteElectron | brb - restarting |
| 20:19.40 | *** join/#brlcad cad64 (n=54399582@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:21.19 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) | |
| 20:33.14 | *** part/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 20:33.15 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 20:36.22 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I completely agree regarding the transferrability pita |
| 20:36.37 | MinuteElectron | Cool. |
| 20:36.38 | brlcad | i've set up drupal three times on sf.net and it's been a pain every time |
| 20:37.14 | MinuteElectron | I see. |
| 20:37.46 | brlcad | the current plan is to only have an initial/first/front page be on sf.net (so their stats can do their thing), and keep the rest off on a different server |
| 20:37.57 | brlcad | so we can do better integration |
| 20:38.03 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. Have you got a server yet? |
| 20:38.16 | TME | brlcad: is this easy way to do a point query to ray trace with 1 hit and see what the HEAD partition region is? |
| 20:38.19 | brlcad | oh yeah, we've got a couple servers |
| 20:38.27 | MinuteElectron | Neat. |
| 20:38.40 | brlcad | my.brlcad.org is a mirror for example |
| 20:38.46 | *** join/#brlcad cad39 (n=5439a617@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:39.13 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 20:40.14 | brlcad | one server in the US, another over in Germany |
| 20:40.31 | brlcad | so theoretically, we could set up distributed load balancing if we *really* wanted to |
| 20:40.47 | MinuteElectron | hehe |
| 20:41.02 | brlcad | that'd be a bit overkill at this point though :-) |
| 20:41.09 | brlcad | given where the site currently sits |
| 20:42.56 | MinuteElectron | Regarding the site design, have you decided on what to about it yet? |
| 20:44.50 | brlcad | nope, that's what I meant about having a lot of freedom towards the design if someone is really interested in tackling the task |
| 20:45.19 | brlcad | i can show you some of the templates that have been done to date if you'd like to see, but even those were just mock ups with no strong preference for/against them |
| 20:46.11 | MinuteElectron | I have lots of spare time, I have just got my apache+php+mysql install running so I could probably take a look at Drupal and create a template that you can give your opinion on (if that is what you would like to do). |
| 20:49.10 | yukonbob | brlcad: have a link/short descr for the Docbook task? |
| 20:49.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: turn on edge curve check (begin implementing CloseTo) |
| 20:50.20 | yukonbob | heh -- nevermind |
| 20:50.28 | SuperTaz | hey guys |
| 20:50.47 | SuperTaz | anyone know about problems in configure that leade to getting : "changes in the environment can compromise the build" |
| 20:51.35 | SuperTaz | I'm trying to build on OS X 10.4.10 |
| 20:51.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: begin implementing generic CloseTo algorithm: step 1 is to sample the curve and collect closest points to the ray |
| 20:52.21 | SuperTaz | (I can type, really) |
| 20:52.33 | yukonbob | SuperTaz: what's the full msg (ie: with context) |
| 20:52.35 | SuperTaz | I googled to no avail |
| 20:53.06 | SuperTaz | long paste: |
| 20:53.15 | yukonbob | not here... use pasetbin or something |
| 20:53.27 | yukonbob | *pastebin |
| 20:53.39 | SuperTaz | configure: running /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad 'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6' '--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/ |
| 20:53.39 | SuperTaz | usr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared --enable-symbols --cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local --srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:53.39 | SuperTaz | configure: loading cache ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local |
| 20:53.40 | SuperTaz | configure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 20:53.42 | SuperTaz | configure: former value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g |
| 20:53.44 | SuperTaz | configure: current value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g |
| 20:53.46 | SuperTaz | configure: error: changes in the environment can compromise the build |
| 20:53.48 | SuperTaz | configure: error: run `make distclean' and/or `rm ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local' and start over |
| 20:53.51 | SuperTaz | configure: error: /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' failed for src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:53.52 | yukonbob | not here... use pastebin or something |
| 20:53.54 | SuperTaz | configure: running /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad 'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6' '--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/ |
| 20:53.59 | SuperTaz | usr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared --enable-symbols --cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local --srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:54.02 | SuperTaz | configure: loading cache ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local |
| 20:54.06 | SuperTaz | configure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 20:54.08 | SuperTaz | configure: former value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g |
| 20:54.09 | brlcad | eep, SuperTaz .. please use pastebin in the future :) |
| 20:54.10 | SuperTaz | configure: current value: -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g |
| 20:54.12 | SuperTaz | configure: error: changes in the environment can compromise the build |
| 20:54.14 | SuperTaz | configure: error: run `make distclean' and/or `rm ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local' and start over |
| 20:54.15 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 20:54.16 | ibot | somebody said pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 20:54.17 | SuperTaz | configure: error: /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' failed for src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:54.20 | SuperTaz | configure: running /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad 'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6' '--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/ |
| 20:54.25 | SuperTaz | usr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared --enable-symbols --cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local --srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix |
| 20:54.28 | SuperTaz | configure: loading cache ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local |
| 20:54.30 | SuperTaz | configure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 20:54.31 | *** mode/#brlcad [+b %SuperTaz!*@*] by brlcad | |
| 20:54.38 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b %SuperTaz!*@*] by brlcad | |
| 20:54.40 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 20:54.42 | SuperTaz | argh |
| 20:54.44 | SuperTaz | dammit |
| 20:54.46 | SuperTaz | stupid xchat |
| 20:54.48 | SuperTaz | putting it on xbin |
| 20:54.50 | SuperTaz | err |
| 20:54.52 | SuperTaz | pastebin |
| 20:54.54 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 20:54.56 | SuperTaz | I intended to |
| 20:54.58 | SuperTaz | *sigh* |
| 20:55.04 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:55.10 | yukonbob | lol |
| 20:55.48 | brlcad | yukonbob: what sort of description? |
| 20:56.05 | brlcad | there's not much to it other than "convert all the docs to docbook" :) |
| 20:56.44 | SuperTaz | http://pastebin.ca/594262 |
| 20:56.45 | SuperTaz | there |
| 20:57.47 | SuperTaz | brb...clearing my pastebuffer before it horks again |
| 20:57.55 | SuperTaz | back |
| 20:58.19 | SuperTaz | anyway, that's where the configure goes wrong |
| 20:58.53 | SuperTaz | happened to me twice |
| 20:58.59 | SuperTaz | I ran make distclean |
| 20:59.06 | SuperTaz | re-ran configure |
| 20:59.14 | SuperTaz | (after deleting the cache) |
| 20:59.20 | SuperTaz | still horked at the end |
| 21:00.57 | brlcad | huh, and this is on a mac of all machines |
| 21:01.33 | brlcad | ooh, BC_RETRY is set... |
| 21:01.34 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 21:01.39 | SuperTaz | err? |
| 21:02.10 | brlcad | add --disable-retry to the configure options |
| 21:02.14 | SuperTaz | okay |
| 21:02.25 | brlcad | it's trying extra hard to find something that you don't have so the real error is obscured |
| 21:02.52 | TME | brlcad (or anyone else): what exactly does setting a_ray_length do? |
| 21:03.01 | SuperTaz | kill the cache, first, I assume? |
| 21:03.01 | SuperTaz | no make distclean needed, though, I hope? |
| 21:03.02 | brlcad | yukonbob: which link? |
| 21:03.08 | brlcad | SuperTaz: nah, shouldn't need to |
| 21:03.11 | SuperTaz | okay |
| 21:03.17 | brlcad | i think :) |
| 21:03.20 | SuperTaz | cache is killed, re-running it |
| 21:03.20 | TME | when I set it (to anything) shootray simply returns the distance to the outside boundary |
| 21:04.10 | SuperTaz | it'll be a little while...this is an oooooold mac ;) |
| 21:04.14 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 21:04.16 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: Link -- I saw title of Docbook call, but didn't click for fuller descr. |
| 21:05.34 | brlcad | TME: setting a_ray_length only matters if you're doing more than one_hit shotlines (i.e. shotlines that go all the way through the geometry and report all the in and out hitpoints it encounters) |
| 21:05.52 | brlcad | TME: the a_ray_length tells it how far to report results, if you want to limit it |
| 21:06.02 | brlcad | otherwise, it will report them all along the given shotline |
| 21:06.13 | brlcad | yukonbob: ahh |
| 21:08.36 | TME | ok |
| 21:08.46 | brlcad | TME, rtshot in src/rt has an example option that uses a_ray_length iirc |
| 21:14.15 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What exactly do you wish to use Drupal for and what do you want to use MediaWiki for? |
| 21:14.23 | MinuteElectron | Just so I know what is going to go in each. |
| 21:17.18 | brlcad | mediawiki is a great wiki, everyone knows and loves it for the most part cept for those crazy tikiwiki folks ;) |
| 21:18.10 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, I swear by it. I would never use another wiki engine. |
| 21:18.17 | brlcad | so I'm looking to let mediawiki do what it does best and drive most of the dynamic content on the site |
| 21:18.39 | MinuteElectron | So MediaWiki is more documentation and Drupal more of a pretty face? |
| 21:19.04 | brlcad | drupal has other "content management" features that would be good to have |
| 21:19.20 | MinuteElectron | I am new to Drupal so you will need to extrapolate. |
| 21:19.43 | brlcad | like forums, gallery modules, authentication modules, the ability to write our own custom modules for things like a geometry database or benchmark performance database |
| 21:20.31 | MinuteElectron | What does the gallery module do? |
| 21:20.33 | brlcad | not to mention, drupal just generally handles "blocks" better |
| 21:21.48 | brlcad | the most popular drupal gallery module is actually an embedding of Gallery (http://drupal.org/project/gallery) |
| 21:22.23 | MinuteElectron | I see. |
| 21:23.55 | MinuteElectron | So the task is, to set up Drupal and MediaWiki, add in some LDAP create a nice theme that will work on drupal and mediawiki and move the content from the current website into drupal and mediawiki? |
| 21:24.47 | MinuteElectron | I think I can handle that. |
| 21:26.09 | brlcad | yep, that sounds about right! |
| 21:26.17 | MinuteElectron | Cool, |
| 21:26.20 | brlcad | ldap is probably last on that list even |
| 21:26.42 | brlcad | just getting the new site up with drupal, mediawiki, integrated new design/theme, and start importing data |
| 21:26.57 | brlcad | most of the "hard work" is really doing to be the design/theme |
| 21:27.12 | MinuteElectron | Ok. |
| 21:27.17 | SuperTaz | brlcad: still having the same problem, even with the added flag |
| 21:27.22 | MinuteElectron | Have you a preference, horizontal or vertical navigation? |
| 21:27.49 | MinuteElectron | dw |
| 21:34.15 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 21:37.31 | MinuteElectron | This is going to be very interesting, colors have to be decided upon.... |
| 21:37.32 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: probably "both" but with different categories -- main categories horizontal, more options horizontally |
| 21:37.54 | MinuteElectron | yeah, cool |
| 21:38.25 | brlcad | let me see if I can dig up the earlier template work |
| 21:38.30 | brlcad | just to give you some ideas |
| 21:38.50 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:39.33 | brlcad | do you have photoshop or a means to view .psd files? |
| 21:39.41 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, let me check. |
| 21:40.34 | MinuteElectron | I just did a complete reinstall of Windows so i haven't installed much yet. But I have gimp, I will just see if it can open psd 's |
| 21:40.43 | brlcad | it can iirc |
| 21:41.02 | MinuteElectron | Cool, then the answer is yes. |
| 21:41.32 | brlcad | let me preface by saying that this was just some fooling around more than 5 years ago so you don't have to use it or even start with it, just some ideas |
| 21:41.38 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/template01.psd |
| 21:41.44 | MinuteElectron | Okay, |
| 21:41.46 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/template02.psd |
| 21:42.19 | MinuteElectron | I need to expand my vocabulary. |
| 21:43.51 | MinuteElectron | Wow, this is a great starting point. |
| 21:44.03 | MinuteElectron | I like the green colors, it goes with the logo well. |
| 21:46.42 | SuperTaz | brlcad, I still can't get it to compile...same error, same context |
| 21:47.00 | SuperTaz | I have to get out of here in a few, though...I'll be back later tonight and I'll be around during the day tomorrow |
| 21:49.18 | brlcad | SuperTaz: okay -- when you get a chance, if you could pastebin your *entire* output including the configure line you call, that might help |
| 21:49.51 | brlcad | SuperTaz: there is a newer logo at http://brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 21:50.55 | brlcad | er sorry, that latter was meant for MinuteElectron |
| 21:50.56 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you pschyic? I needed that page too :P |
| 21:51.01 | MinuteElectron | Oh, lol. |
| 22:26.17 | MinuteElectron | Aww, I wish IE6 would render alpha transparency. |
| 22:29.55 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Is 'solid modeling for a strong defense' a registered trademark? |
| 22:36.23 | MinuteElectron | arghf, view this in any sane browser and it looks alright but in IE it looks crap. http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 22:37.43 | MinuteElectron | lol I have been working on the header for nearly an hour/ |
| 22:39.40 | MinuteElectron | oh dear, this only looks alright at 1280x1024 resolution.... |
| 22:40.48 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:41.15 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: it is/was registered, but don't worry about that .. no need to put the symbol |
| 22:41.25 | MinuteElectron | ok, I will work on this tomorrow, but now I must sleep. You won't be able to view this after my computer goes offline/ |
| 22:41.31 | brlcad | no need to even use the tag line, but it's got character |
| 22:41.39 | MinuteElectron | yeah :D |
| 22:41.42 | brlcad | I have something you might be interested in |
| 22:41.47 | MinuteElectron | ooh |
| 22:42.38 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/websites.txt |
| 22:42.55 | brlcad | again, just really loose concepts that had something relevant or interesting |
| 22:43.17 | brlcad | as well as what others in "our industry" are doing |
| 22:43.48 | MinuteElectron | interesting |
| 22:44.14 | MinuteElectron | I will have a closer look at these and see if I can introduce some of those concepts into my design tomorrow. but for now, goodnight. |
| 22:44.42 | brlcad | cya! |
| 23:28.53 | poolio | brlcad: howdy :) |
| 23:31.41 | poolio | brlcad: If you have a couple minutes in the near future I could use a hand trying to figure out if the bug i'm encountering is my app or general raytracer |
| 23:47.17 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.3) | |
| 00:17.41 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:24.01 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:26.39 | poolio | oops. |
| 00:28.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/.cvsignore: ignore the beset product |
| 00:28.32 | poolio | brlcad: good choice :) |
| 00:39.02 | poolio | brlcad: it seems like part of the problem / the problem has to do with rti_radius...If I create a sphere with radius of 4, the min/max is correctly computed, but the bounding sphere has a radius of 6.9282...? |
| 00:39.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h fitness.h population.c population.h): petty cosmetics while browsing, mostly ws |
| 00:39.39 | poolio | err i've been updating stuff :\ |
| 00:40.11 | brlcad | no worries, nothing likely to conflict |
| 00:40.25 | brlcad | still reading what all you have going |
| 00:41.04 | poolio | alright, but that rti_radius vs bounding box thing is confusing me |
| 00:41.15 | poolio | and possibly part of the problem, or maybe it's my confusion with how the raytracer works |
| 00:41.39 | poolio | thanks for fixing my headers :) |
| 00:41.39 | brlcad | you'll have to back me up to some example so I can see |
| 00:41.46 | poolio | Yeah sure |
| 00:42.06 | poolio | It involves some effor on your end though, I could throw some code together to do it automatically if you want though |
| 00:42.36 | brlcad | nah, just say what I need to do |
| 00:42.41 | brlcad | make a sph in mged? |
| 00:42.45 | poolio | yes |
| 00:42.49 | brlcad | radius 4? |
| 00:42.51 | poolio | sure |
| 00:42.53 | poolio | 4.0 |
| 00:43.06 | poolio | the output of the program is god awful |
| 00:43.18 | poolio | you could also modify the program and do it that way, but i think the mged way is the easiest |
| 00:43.35 | poolio | so make a sphere, run the program with ./beset database.g 1 1 spherename.s aadf |
| 00:43.47 | poolio | the aadf is just me still not decrementing the argc check |
| 00:44.05 | brlcad | already done |
| 00:44.18 | brlcad | not sure what those numbers mean yet |
| 00:44.31 | poolio | so they are the in/out points of the shotline ray |
| 00:44.36 | poolio | 1 1 = 1x1 grid of rays |
| 00:44.38 | poolio | so just 1 ray |
| 00:44.47 | brlcad | shooting in what direction? |
| 00:44.48 | poolio | that should be centered ... i think |
| 00:44.52 | brlcad | ah, k |
| 00:45.02 | poolio | hopefully shooting along the z axis |
| 00:45.17 | poolio | but i think i've confused my axis somewhere, but it's shooting along some defined axis |
| 00:45.35 | poolio | and the numbers are wrong...that's another issue.. |
| 00:45.54 | brlcad | what are the bracketed values? |
| 00:45.58 | poolio | ok so |
| 00:46.08 | poolio | they're the in/out points of the ray |
| 00:46.13 | poolio | the left one is the model shape |
| 00:46.21 | poolio | model shape = stored shape in database |
| 00:46.35 | poolio | the right one is the GA one which should be set to some value in population.c |
| 00:46.37 | poolio | some whole numbered value |
| 00:46.46 | poolio | I've modified everything to try to isolate what is going on |
| 00:47.03 | poolio | so basically, with a radius of 4, the in/out hit points are those |
| 00:47.11 | poolio | (those are normalized to the rti_radius*2 (diameter)) |
| 00:47.27 | brlcad | ah, normalized |
| 00:47.28 | poolio | the reason it's not 1 and is instead .57735 has to do with rti_radius being completely off for some reason |
| 00:48.21 | brlcad | where do you normalize? |
| 00:48.30 | poolio | I normalize in fitness.c |
| 00:49.04 | poolio | stored rays are normalized as they are stored in capture_hit |
| 00:49.18 | poolio | candidates rays are normalized as they are compared in compare_hit |
| 00:49.43 | poolio | the printing is coming from compare_hit |
| 00:49.55 | poolio | If you wait one minute I think I'll make it a bit more clear and stop wasting your time :) |
| 00:59.07 | poolio | brlcad: alright cvs update and you should get output that means something |
| 01:00.10 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 01:00.23 | poolio | brlcad: it's beset.c and fitness.c |
| 01:00.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c): added logical debugging output |
| 01:01.07 | poolio | brlcad: same instructions but don't need the junk 5th argument |
| 01:01.28 | poolio | ./beset db.g 1 1 sphere.s |
| 01:01.42 | poolio | try it with something like 4 then 4.01 |
| 01:02.53 | poolio | my output: http://rafb.net/p/JIkxZt54.html |
| 01:03.42 | poolio | whole.s is a sphere of radius 4, dec.s is a sphere of radius 4.01 |
| 01:07.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: error check fit_prep() return value |
| 01:08.23 | poolio | brlcad: I add in error checking after I get it working in known conditions, I wouldn't worry about it for now :P |
| 01:11.27 | brlcad | i figured half as much, though there's a reason |
| 01:11.45 | poolio | Yeah, it could be stuff like that that's failing and I don't check and that's why it's going crazy |
| 01:12.49 | poolio | I should probably do that now, I'm just not sure if you're doing it and didn't want to commit stuff that you might be changing |
| 01:13.00 | brlcad | it's a habit to *always* write your checks at the same time, sanity checking as you go along -- you need the code regardless so you might as well write it while it's in your locus of attention |
| 01:13.32 | brlcad | don't worry about committing over me.. that's what cvs is for ;) |
| 01:13.33 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah I know, my issue is that I hate having to scroll past it all the time |
| 01:13.49 | brlcad | you get used to it, becomes second nature |
| 01:14.39 | poolio | so any ideas off the top of your head with the weird raytrace shifting thing? |
| 01:14.46 | brlcad | still looking |
| 01:15.05 | brlcad | which is why I was adding checks while poking .. it's in my locus of attention ;) |
| 01:15.16 | brlcad | always better earlier than later.. |
| 01:15.18 | poolio | I appreciate it :) |
| 01:15.30 | brlcad | lots can happen between early and later |
| 01:15.52 | brlcad | the sort of bugs and unchecked values that can send you debugging for days |
| 01:16.10 | poolio | I've already been debugging for days :\ |
| 01:16.28 | brlcad | that's probably more a combination of reasons :) |
| 01:16.41 | poolio | stupidity weighing heavily |
| 01:18.23 | poolio | I also had a kind of general question about C coding. Is it considered a bad practice to have code that's not part of the main routine output info? Like I'm specifying certain return values and then checking the return values in main() and printing out error info. Before I had it just print the error and exit from the routine |
| 01:21.41 | brlcad | nah |
| 01:22.06 | brlcad | (re stupidity) |
| 01:22.06 | poolio | k |
| 01:22.06 | poolio | oh |
| 01:22.06 | poolio | :P |
| 01:22.18 | brlcad | a like your layout, not too tricky to follow |
| 01:22.26 | poolio | brlcad: hurray :) |
| 01:22.37 | poolio | by layout you just mean the file structure and routine hierarchy? |
| 01:23.16 | brlcad | and to your second question .. heck no, that's fine either way |
| 01:23.27 | poolio | alright cool. |
| 01:23.37 | brlcad | generally, error/failure recovery is just a big design decision.. just should try to be consistent on the approach |
| 01:24.20 | brlcad | whether you use return codes, or abort in place, or try to recover from failures, or use result structures, or throw exceptions, or set jump points, etc |
| 01:24.44 | poolio | I think I might just let the routines exit. I mean all the errors that can be errors are fatal errors |
| 01:24.46 | brlcad | for something like this -- if it's a fatal error, I'd just abort |
| 01:24.57 | brlcad | s/abort/terminate the application/ |
| 01:24.58 | poolio | Well not all the errors, but all the errors I'm printing error messages for |
| 01:25.05 | poolio | brlcad: ok cool |
| 01:25.51 | brlcad | it's generally only worth the overhead/complexity of return codes/structs/exceptions/etc if you're actually going to handle them under some conditions |
| 01:26.12 | poolio | yeah that's what I'm considering... it just adds more conditional checks into main() that do nothing |
| 01:26.18 | brlcad | or if there's some secondary benefit, like being able to print more informative messgaes by returning values higher up the chain |
| 01:26.41 | poolio | Well that's what I was thinking with error messages, I wanted to print the program name too but I don't think that's of much importance |
| 01:26.56 | brlcad | usually it's a balance, particularly if you have things that can return null, you check your nulls regardless |
| 01:27.04 | brlcad | s/your/for/ |
| 01:27.45 | poolio | well I feel like bu_malloc has cleaned up a lot of code pertaining to null pointers |
| 01:28.57 | brlcad | that was done that way primarily because it's such a common pattern, and it was an architecture decision to never have memory failures reach application code |
| 01:29.11 | brlcad | i wouldn't take that to an extreme for all call types ;) |
| 01:29.16 | brlcad | like I said, it's a balance |
| 01:29.26 | poolio | yeah, I like that decision. |
| 01:30.28 | brlcad | if you have a routine that has several types of possible errors, it might actually make sense to return an error code or null pointer or what have you, and have the one or two callers just check that value than have N print-error/release-memory/shut-down statements in that deep function |
| 01:32.13 | brlcad | the more frequent decision is usually whether to use return codes (0 good, !0 bad) or truthfull results (true succeed, false failure) |
| 01:32.55 | brlcad | or if you're c++, whether to use exceptions at all or not, other examples abound |
| 01:34.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: quell warning |
| 01:41.52 | poolio | brlcad: eek, I changed that.... |
| 01:42.02 | poolio | brlcad: I just made it print the error and exit...oh well |
| 01:42.19 | brlcad | *ahem* commit early, commit often |
| 01:42.42 | poolio | I think I might actually write that on top of my monitor |
| 01:42.51 | poolio | DON'T FORGET KIDS: commit early, commit often |
| 01:42.57 | poolio | (that better not be relationship advice) |
| 01:43.12 | brlcad | you'll hear that in jusst about every open source project if you've not already |
| 01:43.44 | brlcad | only way to effectively coordinate distributed devs without halting progress -- first to commit "wins", those that follow get to potentially resolve conflicts ;) |
| 01:43.53 | poolio | grargh. |
| 01:44.28 | brlcad | so I have the answer to one question for you |
| 01:45.11 | brlcad | the radius it assigns is only guaranteed to be larger, not tight fitting |
| 01:45.38 | poolio | alright. so I think I'll stick to the bounding box |
| 01:45.55 | brlcad | it computes the bounding sphere by taking half the diameter of the bounding box |
| 01:45.56 | poolio | so is it a sphere that fits inside it the bounding box? |
| 01:46.03 | poolio | ah ok |
| 01:46.04 | brlcad | and if you remember your trig, then those numbers make more sense ;) |
| 01:46.38 | poolio | Yes, but the issue with numbers had to do when it wasn't a whole number |
| 01:46.43 | brlcad | s/diameter/length from the longest corner-to-corner span/ |
| 01:47.07 | brlcad | the radius is still fine to use, shouldn't matter |
| 01:47.48 | brlcad | only happens to be obvious with a sphere since the bounding box is significantly bigger than the sphere, then that box's bounding sphere is then larger |
| 01:47.58 | poolio | yeah true |
| 01:48.05 | poolio | so I can still leave that I guess |
| 01:48.50 | brlcad | btw, a good testing value (aside from a debugger) for shooting rays is nirt and/or rtshot |
| 01:51.33 | brlcad | e.g. rtshot -d 0 0 -1 -p 0 0 1000 test.g sph (shoots down the Z axis) |
| 01:55.45 | poolio | brlcad: alright, so there is something messed up with my raytracing of rational numbers |
| 01:56.30 | poolio | thanks for the time and effort |
| 01:59.49 | brlcad | which axes are your U,V axis along? |
| 02:00.02 | brlcad | xy? |
| 02:00.04 | poolio | I want to say X and Y, but I also want to say I didn't check that and they might not be |
| 02:20.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.c fitness.h): quell more warnings, exit instead of returning in fit_prep() |
| 02:23.45 | poolio | brlcad: any luck? |
| 02:32.23 | brlcad | well, the first shotline looked fine, adding some debug |
| 02:32.46 | poolio | which first shotline? |
| 02:34.00 | brlcad | you shoot up the Z axis at the R4 sphere, get a 8mm thick segment |
| 02:34.58 | poolio | Yep. you shoot up the Z axis at the R4.01 sphere and get an 8.02mm thick segment, which is correct, but for some reason it's shifted over 1 mm? |
| 02:51.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: add support for librt -x debugging (e.g. -x 1 for rt_shootray() shotline debugging, see raytrace.h for debug flags) |
| 02:54.00 | brlcad | you're right, it's shifted |
| 02:57.21 | poolio | brlcad: aha! the issue is that the bounding box is whole numbers it looks like |
| 02:59.05 | brlcad | yes, it kicks the box up to the next whole number |
| 02:59.11 | poolio | oh man... |
| 02:59.16 | poolio | anyway to get decimal bounding boxes? |
| 02:59.17 | brlcad | your second shotline against 4.01 looks right... |
| 02:59.28 | poolio | It is, the issue was I thought the bounding box would fit the shape |
| 02:59.46 | poolio | Somehow my brain missed the change in bounding box size |
| 03:00.08 | brlcad | 9.01 .99 = 8.02 (shotline thickness) |
| 03:00.26 | poolio | brlcad: yes I see the rt output is right, the issue is the bounding box, how can I get a more accurate one? |
| 03:01.13 | brlcad | hm, well that gets a bit more complicated |
| 03:01.29 | brlcad | you could compute them yourself.. but you shouldn't need a tight fitting box |
| 03:02.10 | poolio | Well it's neccesary to have a tight fitting box if I want it to be able to disregard scale along the z-axis (ray) |
| 03:02.33 | brlcad | firstoff, remember that these are not unitless values.. the box is within 1mm |
| 03:04.21 | poolio | I mean the option would be to make the units/size bigger, but it wouldn't be too difficult to calculate it on my own |
| 03:05.02 | SuperTaz | howdy |
| 03:05.05 | SuperTaz | I have returned |
| 03:05.08 | poolio | I also just need the min/max in the z directon |
| 03:05.20 | SuperTaz | the build process still hates me, though |
| 03:06.18 | poolio | brlcad: so shoot off the rays on each model, keeping track of the min/max (and all the individual rays and their parititons) then shift the rays so that the ray closest tot he point is 0 distance away and it should be good |
| 03:06.29 | poolio | normalize with max ray distance - min ray distance |
| 03:06.34 | poolio | that way you wouldn't ahve to re-raytrace |
| 03:07.32 | poolio | but it would require storing all the rays, and separating the ray-by-ray comparison |
| 03:08.12 | poolio | Thats my besat idea... |
| 03:08.15 | brlcad | that's pretty good actually |
| 03:08.31 | brlcad | should be faster to process too |
| 03:08.41 | poolio | faster than the current implmenetation? |
| 03:08.52 | brlcad | that said, you can get at the bounding box before it's clamped |
| 03:09.38 | poolio | what do you mean (i don't quite understand :P) ? |
| 03:10.13 | brlcad | sorry, doing too many things at once :) |
| 03:10.32 | brlcad | what I mean is that the clamping is done for ray-trace partitioning/optimization reasons |
| 03:10.35 | poolio | you mean in librt and prepping? I can get a closer bounding box? |
| 03:10.45 | poolio | brlcad: yeah understood, but wouldn't I have to hack up librt? |
| 03:10.46 | brlcad | before calling prep, it should be the tight-fit box |
| 03:11.20 | poolio | wait, so when I extract the rt_i from the database it's the actual bounding box? |
| 03:11.53 | SuperTaz | brlcad: here's another pastebin link, this time with a couple of extra lines above to give you better context: |
| 03:11.57 | SuperTaz | http://pastebin.ca/594796 |
| 03:12.29 | brlcad | poolio: the bounding sizes are computed during the rt_gettrees() |
| 03:12.48 | poolio | brlcad: cheers :) |
| 03:12.51 | brlcad | once you prepare for a ray-trace, the boxes are clamped so that the spatial partitioning is well-behaved |
| 03:13.03 | brlcad | (i.e. during prep) |
| 03:13.03 | poolio | brlcad: so just overwrite the clamped values after rt_prep() ? |
| 03:13.16 | brlcad | eep, no, don't do that |
| 03:13.26 | brlcad | but you can grab/stash them if you like |
| 03:13.33 | poolio | wait, why not? |
| 03:13.42 | brlcad | it clamps them for a reason :) |
| 03:13.54 | poolio | What's the reason? |
| 03:14.00 | poolio | is it a lot faster when using whole numbers? |
| 03:14.09 | poolio | (for the bounding box) |
| 03:14.39 | brlcad | that, and there are all sorts of tolerancing and scene iteration that occurs as the ray is marched through a scene |
| 03:15.01 | poolio | brlcad: so stash the value and use it to shift and normalize the rays? |
| 03:15.15 | SuperTaz | brlcad: it looks like a problem with whitespace in CFLAGS |
| 03:15.28 | brlcad | you don't have to perform the same equations when progressing a ray and can get away with just checking signs for example |
| 03:16.09 | poolio | brlcad: wait what? are you referencing the advantages of clamping the value? |
| 03:16.10 | brlcad | poolio: sure, you can do that .. though I like your other idea too of just keeping track of all of the rays and computing as a post-process -- either way |
| 03:16.46 | poolio | brlcad: Do you see an advantage to post-processing? To me that's just more data storage which seems pretty pointless. You can store the model easily enough and obtain that raytraced data if needed. That's the idea of the whole program ;) |
| 03:16.49 | brlcad | SuperTaz: I've seen that before, but it's been a long time |
| 03:18.01 | SuperTaz | brlcad: I'm trying to track it down, but so far I've had no luck in figuring out where it's introduced |
| 03:18.48 | brlcad | the wierdness is that it hasn't "run before" yet, I think it's a matter of the CFLAGS from the top-level configure not matching what configure is passing to the sub-configure |
| 03:19.08 | SuperTaz | brlcad: that's exactly what's happening |
| 03:19.10 | brlcad | poolio: not a really strong advantage |
| 03:19.19 | poolio | brlcad: I like the rt_shootray debbugging, thanks for that :) |
| 03:19.24 | brlcad | some advantages and disadvantages |
| 03:19.51 | poolio | mind iterating some of the advantages? |
| 03:20.18 | SuperTaz | brlcad: the question is whether there's an easy hack |
| 03:20.20 | SuperTaz | ls |
| 03:20.23 | SuperTaz | oops |
| 03:21.00 | brlcad | good question |
| 03:22.39 | brlcad | poolio: cache coherency -- mild performance difference (which is an entirely pointless statement without profiling of course) |
| 03:22.44 | SuperTaz | I think I found something, though...the generated configure script seems to set up some whitespace |
| 03:22.56 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, over my head. I have no clue what you mean by cache coherency :P |
| 03:23.05 | brlcad | pointless because it could be entirely countered by avoiding memory allocations and other management logic |
| 03:23.07 | poolio | brlcad: optimization comes after functionality |
| 03:23.21 | brlcad | yup |
| 03:23.29 | brlcad | and speculative optimization is bad |
| 03:23.33 | brlcad | shame on me for saying it ;) |
| 03:23.35 | poolio | brlcad: alright, I'll try to fix up this damn bug finally |
| 03:23.54 | SuperTaz | brlcad: I'm trying to fake it out...I just modified the cache file and re-ran configure |
| 03:24.02 | SuperTaz | don't think it'll work, but it's worth a shot |
| 03:25.14 | SuperTaz | poolio: it's the law of diminishing returns at work |
| 03:25.51 | brlcad | poolio: the only other reason would be if you ever changed your ray shooter to not shoot rays orthogonally down an axis |
| 03:26.15 | SuperTaz | poolio: in the performance realm, we have to analyze whether the potential gains of [further] optimization of a particular piece of functionality outweighs the investment |
| 03:26.25 | brlcad | that will undoubtedly cause aliasing issues down the road without jittering the rays, though whether that matters remains to be seen |
| 03:26.34 | poolio | brlcad: which I don't really see a reason to, but it'd be interesting to try to run the GA at different axis and see how it does |
| 03:26.54 | brlcad | poolio: even better, not along any axis at all |
| 03:26.56 | poolio | SuperTaz: yes yes. |
| 03:27.09 | poolio | brlcad: I fail to comprehend, but okay :) |
| 03:27.14 | brlcad | sample from all around the bounding sphere, for example, until you converge on a mass |
| 03:27.35 | poolio | oh, by axis i just meant arbitrary line through the object, not x,y,z |
| 03:28.13 | poolio | brlcad: wait, why wouldn't shooting it from just one angle converge on a mass? |
| 03:29.31 | SuperTaz | brlcad: wouldn't random sampling work out to be more costly in the long run? |
| 03:30.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/Makefile.am: tk doesn't have a unix/dltest dir to prodclean |
| 03:31.14 | brlcad | SuperTaz: depends on the goal/purpose |
| 03:31.28 | SuperTaz | or are you talking about aiming inward from the boundary horizon, instead of outward? |
| 03:32.19 | brlcad | shooting rays at the object to effectively point-sample it through-and-through |
| 03:32.42 | SuperTaz | assuming that you're using the center of the bounding sphere as either the target or origin of the ray, firing inwards would be more efficient than firing outwards |
| 03:32.59 | poolio | errrrr |
| 03:33.10 | brlcad | you generally don't want to shoot rays from inside geometry |
| 03:33.20 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 03:33.43 | SuperTaz | but I mean as the anchorpoint of the trajectory if you're not firing along an axis |
| 03:34.16 | SuperTaz | i.e. using it as the fulcrum on which the arbitrary axis rests |
| 03:34.20 | brlcad | also wouldn't want to always shoot at the center |
| 03:34.43 | SuperTaz | yes, but I'm talking about shooting inwards from the horizon, instead of outwards from the object |
| 03:34.50 | brlcad | that will bias the ray density for various shapes, sampling more points at portions near the center |
| 03:34.56 | SuperTaz | if you're randomly sampling |
| 03:35.11 | brlcad | i don't think anyone ever suggested shooting "outwards" |
| 03:35.12 | SuperTaz | hrmmm...I suppose that's true |
| 03:35.14 | brlcad | :) |
| 03:35.32 | SuperTaz | no, but I misunderstood the topic, seeing as how I walked in late, I believe ;) |
| 03:36.46 | SuperTaz | and was largely thinking aloud and re-adjusting my assumptions, when I realized that random sampling is only inefficient when it's outward (the further away you get from the centroid, the less coverage area you have) |
| 03:38.01 | SuperTaz | i.e. if you have a 1 degree spread between 2 rays, it's pretty dense right near the object, and exponentially approaches completely useless the further away you get from the object (the distance between the two objects increases) |
| 03:38.12 | SuperTaz | err...rays, not objects at the end of that |
| 03:38.34 | SuperTaz | perhaps instead of using a centroid, there's some sort of path one could create, though |
| 03:38.39 | SuperTaz | BTW |
| 03:38.56 | SuperTaz | configure is re-starting itself with new CFLAGS, which is screwing it up |
| 03:39.28 | brlcad | which autoconf are you using? |
| 03:39.36 | SuperTaz | sec |
| 03:39.39 | brlcad | default mac version, or fink or ports or something? |
| 03:39.59 | SuperTaz | autoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.59 |
| 03:40.08 | SuperTaz | ports, I believe |
| 03:40.25 | SuperTaz | might be stock, though |
| 03:40.39 | SuperTaz | looks like it's stock |
| 03:40.47 | SuperTaz | it's in /usr/bin |
| 03:40.57 | SuperTaz | ports is /opt/bin or /usr/local/bin, iirc |
| 03:42.18 | SuperTaz | I'm considering trying to specify the cflags, and seeing what happens |
| 03:42.58 | SuperTaz | re-extracting the src over what's existing, though, since I accidentally typed autoconf -v before autoconf --version |
| 03:43.08 | SuperTaz | and autoconf -v hoses stuff |
| 03:44.44 | SuperTaz | there is a spot where it does a check and sets CFLAGS=" " |
| 03:44.53 | SuperTaz | I suspect there's more than one place that it does that |
| 03:44.55 | SuperTaz | probably 2 |
| 03:45.01 | SuperTaz | or it hits that spot twice |
| 03:45.13 | SuperTaz | and the whitespace stays |
| 03:45.36 | SuperTaz | specifying the cflags on the command line will PROBABLY remove the problem |
| 03:45.41 | SuperTaz | we shall see |
| 03:46.15 | SuperTaz | of course, it would be best to remedy the bug |
| 03:46.22 | SuperTaz | thanks, yukon |
| 03:46.24 | brlcad | could just be a matter of trimming the whitespace in configure.ac before it gets to the sub-configures |
| 03:46.39 | SuperTaz | I've been doing this stuff for many years...I've learned to be patient |
| 03:47.01 | SuperTaz | port one application or write one network stack and you will learn enough patience to last a lifetime |
| 03:47.43 | SuperTaz | brlcad: that might work |
| 03:48.43 | SuperTaz | I'm happy to apply a patch if you want to experiment, even if I do get it to build successfully with my attempted trickery ;) |
| 03:49.08 | SuperTaz | I've never really messed with autoconf much |
| 03:49.20 | SuperTaz | so it's admittedly a little bit of a weakness |
| 03:49.32 | SuperTaz | (and a lot of smoke and mirrors, imho :P ) |
| 03:49.59 | brlcad | yeah, lemme test here |
| 03:50.03 | SuperTaz | k |
| 03:50.09 | yukonbob | SuperTaz: you running 7.10.0 |
| 03:50.10 | yukonbob | ? |
| 03:50.19 | yukonbob | (or rather, trying to run) |
| 03:50.34 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 03:50.42 | SuperTaz | on OS X 10.4.10 |
| 03:52.40 | SuperTaz | have something I am trying to design, and learned modelling in the mid-90's with Alias and Explore, so I'm used to both NURBS and solids modellers |
| 03:53.20 | SuperTaz | but I also had dynamation and kinemation expertise, and this project actually needs materials simulation |
| 03:53.42 | brlcad | yukonbob: most people are oblivious to deps, even 'most' devs |
| 03:54.01 | SuperTaz | which means I either have to find a way to get the now-extinct Explore and port it to OS X or Windows, or find something else |
| 03:54.02 | brlcad | they care about features, functionality, and a clean compile usually from my experience |
| 03:54.06 | SuperTaz | enter BRL-CAD ;) |
| 03:54.34 | brlcad | SuperTaz: we're open to new devs if you have an itch that you want to scratch ;) |
| 03:54.38 | SuperTaz | and, frankly, I don't use tcl/tk for much on this machine |
| 03:54.42 | SuperTaz | hehehe brl |
| 03:55.54 | yukonbob | ?is there currently any nurb support, or is that what poolio is working on atm |
| 03:56.01 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 03:56.51 | SuperTaz | you know...I like both types of modelling |
| 03:57.01 | SuperTaz | which probably makes me a rare breed |
| 03:57.20 | poolio | yukonbob: nope. i'm not really working on anything. |
| 03:57.22 | brlcad | the big tasks going on right (i.e. the major focus of this year) now are a new BREP/NURBS implementation, a STEP geometry converter, and a new modeling interface |
| 03:57.39 | poolio | yukonbob: a bizarre GA project :) |
| 03:57.47 | SuperTaz | nice |
| 03:57.50 | yukonbob | "GA"? |
| 03:57.56 | poolio | genetic algorithm |
| 03:58.01 | poolio | brlcad: who's goign to do the STEP converter? |
| 03:58.02 | yukonbob | ah, right. |
| 03:58.03 | SuperTaz | actually, the materials stuff does look interesting to me :) |
| 03:58.14 | brlcad | yukonbob: there is support for nurbs in brl-cad .. albeit slow and problematic, you can generally only create them programmaticly or via iges import |
| 03:58.28 | SuperTaz | and the physics engine support would be nice to have, too |
| 03:59.01 | brlcad | more importantly, though, is a completely new (re)implementation and integration of a brep/nurbs primitive |
| 03:59.08 | SuperTaz | of course, with nearly a million lines of code already in the project, getting acquainted with the guts of something I haven't even seen, yet should be a bit of a challenge ;) |
| 03:59.48 | SuperTaz | brlcad: essentially, you're going to add NURBS to the GUI modeller? |
| 03:59.49 | brlcad | poolio: I've worked on it some, but I'm trying to find someone else who can work on the step converter |
| 04:00.34 | SuperTaz | so you can do what they did with Explore in the mid 90's, when they added NURBS and blob modelling to the solids modelling |
| 04:00.39 | brlcad | SuperTaz: also fortunately, the package is fairly compartmentalized into various tools and libraries.. so you don't necessarily need to understand the majority of those millino lines before you can make something useful/interesting/improved |
| 04:01.13 | SuperTaz | brlcad: good to know |
| 04:01.20 | SuperTaz | I did notice that in the diagram |
| 04:01.37 | poolio | SuperTaz: I'm a fairly young amateur coder and if you hvae a specific project, you can probably learn most of what you need to know in at most a couple weeks |
| 04:01.39 | SuperTaz | of course, physics and materials are both fairly complicated |
| 04:01.44 | brlcad | yes, going to add nurbs modeling to the gui -- probably focusing more on a new gui instead of hooking it into mged .. though mged might get some functionality in that area .. still tbd |
| 04:02.21 | brlcad | SuperTaz: diagram? |
| 04:02.48 | SuperTaz | poolio: I used to do standards work and R&D at a fortune 50 manufacturer, so I know...but there's a different between finding where to put the shoehorn, and understand why the shoehorn works :) |
| 04:03.01 | SuperTaz | brl: flowchart of how data moves? |
| 04:03.03 | SuperTaz | on the web |
| 04:03.13 | poolio | SuperTaz: yep, I'm currently satisfied with just sticking the shoehorn in there. |
| 04:04.12 | SuperTaz | pool: that's good for smaller stuff, but for major undertakings, such as interfacing complex libraries like a physics engine, you really have to understand the mechanics of the shoe, shoehorn, sock, and foot |
| 04:04.43 | SuperTaz | just takes a little longer :) |
| 04:05.00 | SuperTaz | and is a little more frustrating when you get things wrong, until you're intimately familiar with it :) |
| 04:05.02 | poolio | SuperTaz: true, you're at a far differnet leve than I |
| 04:05.33 | brlcad | SuperTaz: ahh, that old thing .. yes ;) |
| 04:05.46 | SuperTaz | hehehe |
| 04:06.02 | poolio | W0000000000T. |
| 04:06.06 | poolio | working :D :D |
| 04:06.24 | SuperTaz | getting the physics stuff in isn't going to happen easily |
| 04:06.39 | SuperTaz | btw, brl...specifying the cflags didn't help |
| 04:06.44 | SuperTaz | it still re-introduced the whitespace |
| 04:07.18 | SuperTaz | shame I don't have contact info for Frances from Xaos, anymore |
| 04:07.44 | SuperTaz | she would have been really adept at getting you your 2D compositor in place in a few days of effort |
| 04:08.14 | SuperTaz | she programmed most of the effects in Xaos Tools |
| 04:09.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: |
| 04:09.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: refactor the entire library processing so that it uses the exact same list that |
| 04:09.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: is used to compile from configure without maintaining a separate list in here. |
| 04:09.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add additional options for libdir, includedir, and ldflags too. still need to |
| 04:09.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: scan the FLAGS vars for automake vars |
| 04:09.40 | SuperTaz | back in the 90's, in the days when an Onyx was the size of a refigerator and was about as powerful as my PC, and when the notion of a z-buffer was so new that you couldn't move the render window, else you'd get artifacts from all over :P |
| 04:10.30 | SuperTaz | btw...it's only the CFLAGS that are seeing injected whitespace |
| 04:10.38 | SuperTaz | the CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS are just fine |
| 04:12.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: remove the if, just make the EOF check part of the case |
| 04:12.16 | SuperTaz | wound up with the following when I tried specifying the same CFLAGS at the commandline that it added: |
| 04:12.17 | SuperTaz | http://pastebin.ca/594860 |
| 04:12.39 | brlcad | CFLAGS is special |
| 04:12.59 | SuperTaz | in the short bus sense? |
| 04:13.17 | SuperTaz | or as in you have oodles of special handling in there (which I seemed to notice...) |
| 04:13.34 | yukonbob | SuperTaz: lots of info on Frances Dose on the 'net, if she's the one you were thinking of that worked at Xaos |
| 04:13.42 | poolio | brlcad: stop touching up mah code ;) |
| 04:13.48 | poolio | well I guess that was yours but ... heh :) |
| 04:14.00 | brlcad | no, there's only one place where CFLAGS is treated special and it's done to override autoconf's default -g -O2 behavior |
| 04:14.34 | SuperTaz | yes, that's the one, yukon :) |
| 04:14.42 | SuperTaz | getting her to contribute would be interesting, though |
| 04:15.46 | SuperTaz | not sure that che could, though |
| 04:15.51 | SuperTaz | she's working for philips now |
| 04:16.21 | yukonbob | http://www.francesdose.com/Coder.html |
| 04:16.25 | SuperTaz | so she might be contractually prohibited from doing it |
| 04:16.37 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 04:16.43 | brlcad | ah, I see what the issue is |
| 04:17.02 | SuperTaz | it was pretty cool to learn pandemonium from the person who programmed all of the routine |
| 04:17.16 | brlcad | it's retrying configure because it fails to find X11 |
| 04:17.18 | SuperTaz | and I also got to meet the GUI designer |
| 04:17.24 | SuperTaz | hrmmm |
| 04:17.32 | SuperTaz | that's what it did the first time |
| 04:17.41 | SuperTaz | so I specified the location of x11 |
| 04:17.43 | SuperTaz | and then it found it |
| 04:17.52 | brlcad | checking for X11 link functionality... no |
| 04:17.55 | SuperTaz | here's my configure line (before the CFLAGS attempt) |
| 04:17.57 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 04:18.14 | SuperTaz | ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11R6 --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad --disable-retry |
| 04:18.22 | SuperTaz | hrmmm |
| 04:18.28 | SuperTaz | any ideas? |
| 04:18.44 | brlcad | you used that and it gave you http://pastebin.ca/594860 ? |
| 04:23.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: finally rip out the retry code -- causes too many headaches and confusion when the retry also fails since it has the tendency to hide the original real problem. |
| 04:24.48 | SuperTaz | yup |
| 04:24.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (Makefile.am retry.m4): retry macros are no longer needed, the configure retry code was ripped out |
| 04:25.18 | brlcad | for some reason, it's not obeying the --disable flag |
| 04:25.59 | brlcad | you will likely have better luck working off of cvs head now ;) |
| 04:26.06 | SuperTaz | hahaha |
| 04:26.19 | SuperTaz | I need to install cvs on this box, I suppose |
| 04:26.23 | SuperTaz | I only have svn ;) |
| 04:26.43 | SuperTaz | cause that's what I use for everything these days :) |
| 04:26.49 | brlcad | we're doing the conversion over to svn later this year |
| 04:26.57 | SuperTaz | ahhh, good :) |
| 04:27.09 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 04:27.15 | SuperTaz | apple provides cvs |
| 04:27.26 | brlcad | I've converted most of the other projects I work with a long while ago, but brl-cad's conversion will need to be rather careful |
| 04:27.33 | brlcad | ~cadcvs |
| 04:28.33 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 04:28.35 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:28.35 | SuperTaz | I have to go find the instructions for using cvs to suck down brlcad ;) |
| 04:28.36 | brlcad | we've got almost 25 years of comprehensive cvs history to retain ... |
| 04:28.36 | brlcad | ibot: wake up |
| 04:28.45 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 04:28.46 | SuperTaz | well, you COULD keep the cvs repository around |
| 04:28.48 | SuperTaz | though I'm sure it's possible to keep it |
| 04:29.10 | brlcad | it is perfectly possible, but it's not automatic |
| 04:29.17 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:29.48 | poolio | brlcad: what the heck. why was I quicksorting the candidate individuals based on fitness? |
| 04:29.52 | brlcad | and from my perspective, it's absolutely necessary .. not going to import fresh and just leave the history in cvs |
| 04:30.19 | brlcad | poolio: for crossover selection and other advancement criteria? |
| 04:30.36 | poolio | brlcad: well they dont need to be sorted for any of those... oh well.. |
| 04:30.46 | poolio | ill just comment it out, i'm sure i'm going somewhere with it I just have forgotten where |
| 04:31.14 | SuperTaz | good...you SHOULD keep the history |
| 04:31.16 | brlcad | you have lots of knobs you can tweak, like migrating the top N unmodified/unmutated, droping the bottown M outright, etc |
| 04:32.08 | SuperTaz | if you didn't want to use subversion internally, you could just expose nightly builds via svn (script a cvs checkout and a svn checkin) |
| 04:32.31 | brlcad | SuperTaz: we're rather proud of our extensive history, we just may have the oldest repository histories that has remained intact |
| 04:32.35 | SuperTaz | I suspect this cvs checkout is gonna take a while |
| 04:32.38 | poolio | brlcad: well the way I do it is that I use the fitness as a weight, and a weighted random individual picker |
| 04:32.50 | poolio | brlcad: but I guess for other selection methods it makes sense |
| 04:33.01 | SuperTaz | brlcad: that's awesome :) I read up on the history of the project...it's part of what attracted me to it :) |
| 04:33.03 | brlcad | the fact that we started even before cvs existed |
| 04:33.23 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 04:33.42 | SuperTaz | what did the original team use for version control? |
| 04:33.54 | PrezKennedy | a notepad |
| 04:33.56 | PrezKennedy | haha |
| 04:34.02 | brlcad | talking to the ohloh folks a few months back, our history does/did go back the farthest of all projects in ohloh |
| 04:34.17 | brlcad | SuperTaz: it was in rcs before moving to cvs |
| 04:34.19 | SuperTaz | heh...that's cool |
| 04:34.21 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 04:34.25 | SuperTaz | god...I remember rcs |
| 04:34.38 | SuperTaz | almost forgot that we used to use rcs |
| 04:34.53 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 04:34.56 | SuperTaz | scary, huh? |
| 04:35.00 | brlcad | we gave the ohloh folks quite a head turn when brl-cad was added to their index |
| 04:35.12 | SuperTaz | it's been a good decade plus since I used ci/co ;) |
| 04:35.27 | brlcad | they thought their import was catching "all commits to head" when in fact it wasn't |
| 04:35.37 | SuperTaz | hahahaha :) |
| 04:35.50 | brlcad | all of brl-cad stats were massively wrong, missing thousands of commits through the 80's |
| 04:36.10 | SuperTaz | yikes |
| 04:36.15 | brlcad | a little hidden tidbit of knowledge about how cvs works |
| 04:36.29 | poolio | brlcad: I'm off for the night, but thanks for fixing up my code |
| 04:36.32 | brlcad | they were only pulling the latest rcs revision from cvs |
| 04:36.37 | brlcad | on head |
| 04:36.41 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:36.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h): fixed bug where spheres with non-whole radii produced odd results |
| 04:37.02 | brlcad | since we predated, the rcs revision numbers have continued to be tweaked/incremented over the years for various accounting purposes |
| 04:37.10 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:37.10 | brlcad | night poolio |
| 04:37.21 | SuperTaz | wow...checkout finally finished :) |
| 04:37.30 | brlcad | they had to rearchitect their database and reimport all CVS projects when the found that out |
| 04:38.35 | SuperTaz | hehehe...nice |
| 04:38.43 | SuperTaz | nothing like a paradigm shift :) |
| 04:38.58 | SuperTaz | hadn't they ever seen a project that had been ported from rcs to cvs before?!? |
| 04:39.05 | SuperTaz | or am I just old? |
| 04:39.10 | SuperTaz | (and I'm not that old!) |
| 04:39.11 | brlcad | you're just that old ;) |
| 04:39.14 | poolio | 480 person years. geeeeez. |
| 04:39.19 | poolio | gnite guys |
| 04:39.20 | SuperTaz | yikes |
| 04:39.22 | SuperTaz | nite poolio |
| 04:40.29 | SuperTaz | all I can say is...I wasn't around the last time the Cubs won the World Series ;) |
| 04:41.22 | brlcad | heh, nor was I by a long shot :) |
| 04:41.53 | SuperTaz | how long have you been monkeying around with brl-cad? ;) |
| 04:42.07 | *** join/#brlcad cad54 (n=3d588390@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 04:43.44 | brlcad | since just a couple years before mike passed |
| 04:43.50 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:44.04 | SuperTaz | he passed in 2000, correct? |
| 04:44.04 | brlcad | about 9 years now |
| 04:44.27 | brlcad | yeah, Nov 2000 |
| 04:44.34 | brlcad | did you know him? |
| 04:44.45 | SuperTaz | no, I don't think we ever crossed paths |
| 04:44.56 | SuperTaz | unless we met at Siggraph or some such |
| 04:45.55 | SuperTaz | but back in the days of Siggraph (for me), I was mainly in the animation, mastering, and film areas |
| 04:46.03 | brlcad | hard to miss him at siggraph, he was very much in the "elite elders" crowd |
| 04:46.04 | SuperTaz | not as much in the cad area |
| 04:46.10 | SuperTaz | hehehe |
| 04:46.28 | SuperTaz | yeah, I may have met him in passing in the 90's |
| 04:46.44 | SuperTaz | I would remember if I'd had the opportunity to talk in depth |
| 04:47.20 | brlcad | he really was a brilliant guy (in many ways) |
| 04:47.33 | brlcad | and exceptionally charismatic |
| 04:47.41 | SuperTaz | I remember that's where I got my introduction to the guys from MRL at NYU |
| 04:48.06 | brlcad | one of the main reasons I was attracted towards working on brl-cad |
| 04:48.07 | SuperTaz | got to check out their robotics and fab lab there when I was next in NY...that was great |
| 04:48.10 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:48.18 | SuperTaz | it's a shame I never got to know him |
| 04:48.34 | SuperTaz | those are my favorite types of people :) |
| 04:49.04 | SuperTaz | at the IETF meetings, that was the crowd I was always around |
| 04:49.14 | brlcad | aha |
| 04:49.16 | SuperTaz | used to play nuclear war with the elders :) |
| 04:49.52 | SuperTaz | now that was some fun |
| 04:50.14 | brlcad | speaking of the ietf.. do you know don merrit? |
| 04:51.14 | SuperTaz | not really |
| 04:51.41 | SuperTaz | it's been a few years since I was really involved with the IETF |
| 04:51.44 | brlcad | he was the long-time ietf representative from BRL / ARL |
| 04:51.48 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 04:52.10 | SuperTaz | I didn't really know him |
| 04:52.40 | brlcad | just came to mind because I ran into him at the ball field just last week and some comment about the ietf came up :) |
| 04:52.47 | SuperTaz | hehehe |
| 04:53.11 | SuperTaz | I knew Scott Bradner and Allison Mankin |
| 04:53.19 | SuperTaz | I was in transport |
| 04:53.26 | SuperTaz | sigtran/TSVWG |
| 04:53.29 | SuperTaz | seamoby |
| 04:53.33 | SuperTaz | rohc |
| 04:53.53 | SuperTaz | knew Randy Bush |
| 04:54.03 | SuperTaz | used to run into him a bunch |
| 04:54.14 | SuperTaz | a lot of the guys I worked with were from europe, too |
| 04:54.26 | brlcad | foreign names to me :) |
| 04:54.35 | SuperTaz | yeah, different area |
| 04:56.55 | brlcad | so what caught your eye with brl-cad? |
| 04:56.57 | SuperTaz | actually, I think he did a bunch of work in the transport area |
| 04:56.59 | brlcad | presume you haven't used it before? |
| 04:57.06 | SuperTaz | no, I still haven't used it ;) |
| 04:57.54 | SuperTaz | it was that it's a solids modeller |
| 04:58.06 | SuperTaz | and that it can import and export several formats |
| 04:58.39 | brlcad | been a bit of a rocky start, from adapting to the conversion to open source, setting up an infrastructure that can grow collaboratively |
| 04:59.00 | SuperTaz | essentially, I have a design in my head that I need model and ultimately produce drawings of |
| 04:59.02 | brlcad | fighting the old-age bagged (the modeler's gui) which maintaining active development ;) |
| 04:59.12 | SuperTaz | heh :) |
| 04:59.19 | brlcad | s/which/while/ |
| 04:59.37 | SuperTaz | yeah, I figured ;) |
| 04:59.54 | SuperTaz | (btw...configure is running with ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11R6 --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad) |
| 05:00.09 | SuperTaz | (we'll see if it finds X11 and/or completes this time |
| 05:00.10 | SuperTaz | ) |
| 05:00.27 | SuperTaz | anyway, I need to get this idea out of my head and figure out whether it'll work |
| 05:00.42 | SuperTaz | it'd be great if I could simulate what happens when it's dropped |
| 05:00.45 | brlcad | if you get interested in running a performance test, you'll probably also want to add --enable-optimized for faster performance |
| 05:00.50 | SuperTaz | but I realize that won't really happen |
| 05:00.57 | SuperTaz | oh? |
| 05:01.02 | SuperTaz | I can stop it |
| 05:01.06 | SuperTaz | and add that |
| 05:01.14 | brlcad | either way, it's perfectly fine without it too |
| 05:01.44 | brlcad | brl-cad also includes a benchmark performance suite that most like running, gives a really historic perspective of your system's performance |
| 05:01.48 | SuperTaz | stopped it, added the flag, re-ran it |
| 05:02.20 | brlcad | don't forget to make clean to clear out the unoptimized object files |
| 05:02.21 | SuperTaz | *nod* yeah, that's pretty cool |
| 05:02.31 | SuperTaz | it was in configure, still |
| 05:02.39 | SuperTaz | didn't get to make |
| 05:02.58 | SuperTaz | unless you broke the cardinal rule, and configure compiles more than tests?? |
| 05:03.03 | brlcad | you can run the benchmark either via "make benchmark" after the regular build completes or via the "benchmark" command after installation completes |
| 05:03.11 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 05:03.17 | SuperTaz | I'll probably install first |
| 05:04.09 | PrezKennedy | alright you old folks time for me to hit the hay |
| 05:04.09 | SuperTaz | this machine is an old PowerMac G4 |
| 05:04.17 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: heh |
| 05:04.25 | PrezKennedy | crazy people expect me to care about their hardware problems on a friday morning |
| 05:04.29 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 05:04.39 | SuperTaz | neither am I, neither am I! |
| 05:04.55 | SuperTaz | relative to some people, I'm quite young |
| 05:05.32 | SuperTaz | I haven't even lived half of my life (I hope) |
| 05:05.39 | brlcad | and with the upcoming advancements in medicine, one might live to be 300 |
| 05:05.56 | brlcad | *ahem* |
| 05:06.00 | SuperTaz | well, I CERTAINLY haven't lived half of my life if I break 150 :) |
| 05:06.16 | SuperTaz | or 120 |
| 05:06.18 | SuperTaz | or 100 |
| 05:06.21 | brlcad | you don't look a day over 130 |
| 05:06.21 | PrezKennedy | i havent even hit a quarter of mine |
| 05:06.23 | SuperTaz | . . . |
| 05:06.26 | PrezKennedy | i win! |
| 05:06.35 | SuperTaz | well |
| 05:06.38 | SuperTaz | yes, you win |
| 05:06.41 | SuperTaz | I suppose |
| 05:06.48 | SuperTaz | if it's a contest |
| 05:06.50 | brlcad | dunno |
| 05:06.54 | brlcad | with a name like PrezKennedy |
| 05:07.04 | brlcad | sounds like a recipe for "early retirement" |
| 05:07.08 | SuperTaz | hahahaha |
| 05:07.20 | SuperTaz | he may have lived half of his life already, and he just doesn't know it |
| 05:07.40 | SuperTaz | assuming he's at least in the second half of his teens |
| 05:07.51 | PrezKennedy | early 20's |
| 05:08.02 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 05:08.14 | brlcad | that's approaching mid-life crisis then |
| 05:08.14 | SuperTaz | <==== not early 20's ;) |
| 05:09.33 | brlcad | age is but a state of mind and I'm getting younger every day |
| 05:09.41 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 05:09.51 | SuperTaz | kennedy was 46 when he died |
| 05:10.08 | SuperTaz | so if you're 23 or older, you're screwed, son ;) |
| 05:10.31 | SuperTaz | (yes, I had to look that one up) |
| 05:10.53 | PrezKennedy | no relation |
| 05:10.56 | PrezKennedy | so im not worried |
| 05:11.04 | SuperTaz | wow...he won't even know where he was when the challenger exploded |
| 05:11.12 | SuperTaz | geez |
| 05:11.35 | PrezKennedy | give it a few years and neither will you ;-) |
| 05:11.58 | SuperTaz | you know...that's something that will stick in my mind for the rest of my life |
| 05:12.32 | SuperTaz | I remember exactly where I was |
| 05:12.36 | SuperTaz | and how stunned I was |
| 05:12.49 | SuperTaz | and we interrupted our lunch to have a minute of silence |
| 05:13.48 | brlcad | had a really interesting lecture about the name for those "life anchor" events in psychology in college |
| 05:13.52 | SuperTaz | I felt so awful for her students |
| 05:13.58 | brlcad | how you can date generations by those events |
| 05:13.59 | SuperTaz | yeah? |
| 05:14.05 | SuperTaz | it's true |
| 05:14.11 | brlcad | as one tends to stick out moreso than others |
| 05:14.17 | brlcad | even as other major events occur |
| 05:14.21 | SuperTaz | I've had more than one of them, unfortunately |
| 05:14.54 | SuperTaz | that, the world trade center bombing, the oklahoma city bombing, the final attack on the world trade center |
| 05:15.17 | brlcad | yep |
| 05:15.34 | SuperTaz | okay...configure completed that time |
| 05:15.42 | SuperTaz | I'm going to scroll back to see if it caught X11 |
| 05:16.07 | SuperTaz | looks like it |
| 05:16.14 | SuperTaz | 13 minutes, 37 seconds to configure |
| 05:16.21 | SuperTaz | the joy of a G4 400 |
| 05:16.34 | SuperTaz | make will take hours, I'm sure |
| 05:17.52 | SuperTaz | probably let it grind away while I sleep ;) |
| 05:18.47 | SuperTaz | take it psych 101 was after the challenger exploded for you? ;) |
| 05:19.25 | *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 05:20.04 | tofu | others being landing on the moon, kennedy being shot, the tsunami, cuban missile crisis, pearl harbor, ... |
| 05:20.09 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 05:20.23 | SuperTaz | you were certainly not alive for all of those? |
| 05:20.24 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 05:20.45 | brlcad | heck no |
| 05:20.47 | SuperTaz | katrina |
| 05:21.14 | brlcad | doubt katrina was "big enough" |
| 05:21.24 | PrezKennedy | gnight folks |
| 05:21.27 | SuperTaz | I'm guessing psych 101 for you was somewhere between the challenger exploding and the first world trade center bombing? |
| 05:21.28 | brlcad | generally has to be "shocking" |
| 05:21.33 | brlcad | not just tragic |
| 05:21.34 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 05:21.53 | SuperTaz | I dunno...katrina was pretty profound for a lot of people |
| 05:22.06 | SuperTaz | and pretty shocking |
| 05:22.38 | SuperTaz | that the government couldn't handle it, that they let the levees fail, that a HUGE piece of american history was wiped out (NO had a LOT of history that was destroyed) |
| 05:22.39 | brlcad | no, I experienced challenger up front and center -- I was one of millions of kids in grade school that tuned in from the classroom attently watching the launch |
| 05:22.47 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 05:23.00 | SuperTaz | that puts you in your late 20's to early 30's |
| 05:23.14 | brlcad | thereabouts |
| 05:23.25 | SuperTaz | we weren't watching the launch |
| 05:23.30 | SuperTaz | we were having lunch |
| 05:24.02 | SuperTaz | the kitchen staff were listening to the launch on the radio |
| 05:24.09 | SuperTaz | and came out into the lunchroom to tell the asst. headmaster, whose table I was sitting at |
| 05:24.41 | SuperTaz | at the time, I still had dreams of being an astronaut |
| 05:24.49 | SuperTaz | hadn't quite broken the height limit, yet |
| 05:26.06 | SuperTaz | btw...I'd be a fan of seeing the site redone in rails |
| 05:26.40 | SuperTaz | as opposed to drupal/mediawiki |
| 05:26.48 | SuperTaz | just a personal bias ;) |
| 05:27.22 | *** join/#brlcad zapp (n=deltazap@pool-71-251-104-121.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 05:29.27 | brlcad | :) |
| 05:30.04 | brlcad | or lack thereof ;) |
| 05:30.07 | SuperTaz | hahahaha |
| 05:30.11 | SuperTaz | complete lack thereof |
| 05:30.15 | SuperTaz | I develop that way, too ;) |
| 05:30.19 | SuperTaz | it makes me more efficient |
| 05:32.46 | SuperTaz | there don't seem to be any open source precision physics engines, btw |
| 05:33.27 | SuperTaz | and the real-time physics engines are pretty much useless for simulation, unless you want them for basic animation purposes only, instead of for simulation |
| 05:35.05 | brlcad | looked at ODE? |
| 05:35.12 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 05:35.29 | SuperTaz | it's realtime rigid body |
| 05:35.47 | SuperTaz | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:35.53 | SuperTaz | i.e. games engine |
| 05:36.05 | brlcad | part of the puzzle for a games engine |
| 05:36.09 | SuperTaz | or so it seems...I'm reading more |
| 05:36.21 | brlcad | though useful for basic physics interactions too |
| 05:36.28 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 05:37.32 | SuperTaz | but if I put a physics engine into BRL-CAD, I'd want it to tell me how much force was applied at impact, and whether it exceeds deformation and breakage characteristics of a material |
| 05:38.22 | brlcad | there are only a couple open source libs, ode being one of the best |
| 05:38.24 | SuperTaz | though that may all be possible, in which case it'd be quite adequate |
| 05:38.37 | brlcad | it could possibly do that, but you'd have to break up your problem domain some, I'd imagine |
| 05:38.51 | brlcad | doubt the Bullet library could handle that either |
| 05:38.55 | SuperTaz | yeah, and that could defeat the purpose |
| 05:39.03 | SuperTaz | no...bullet is lower-end than ODE |
| 05:39.04 | brlcad | though I've seen bullet do deformation dynamics too |
| 05:39.09 | SuperTaz | can it? |
| 05:39.16 | SuperTaz | it seems to be lower-end than ODE |
| 05:39.21 | brlcad | it is |
| 05:39.26 | SuperTaz | deformation is pretty high-end |
| 05:39.37 | brlcad | it doesn't do all the work for you |
| 05:40.09 | brlcad | effectively hacked together, doing some of the interactions yourself letting bullet handle the first order physics |
| 05:40.20 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 05:40.58 | SuperTaz | I don't really care about lots and lots of deformation...I'm more concerned with impact forces and material ratings |
| 05:41.15 | SuperTaz | which are pretty exact |
| 05:41.46 | brlcad | ODE's probably the farthest along, but they're also still mostly looking at first order rigid body dynamics |
| 05:41.57 | brlcad | low energy interations, inelastic deformations |
| 05:42.14 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 05:42.25 | SuperTaz | it's just not there, yet |
| 05:44.30 | brlcad | they are what I'd planned on starting with for the new modeling interface simply because they're still the farthest along and can help set up basic interactions (even just for "good" collision detection) |
| 05:44.44 | brlcad | and adding on material interactions down the road |
| 05:44.47 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 05:45.22 | SuperTaz | the real question should be what you're planning on implementing it for |
| 05:45.41 | SuperTaz | you shouldn't be implementing a physics engine just to implement a physics engine |
| 05:45.47 | brlcad | actually nearly the same purpose you mentioned would be the driver |
| 05:45.54 | SuperTaz | you should be doing it with a specific application in mind |
| 05:45.56 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 05:46.09 | SuperTaz | well, it'd be a sensible part of a materials system :) |
| 05:47.05 | brlcad | it would be amusing to out-perform the (closed) physics interaction codes that hook up with brl-cad for performing V/L analyses |
| 05:48.03 | SuperTaz | don't know that that would happen |
| 05:48.15 | SuperTaz | i'd imagine they're pretty well optimized |
| 05:48.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:48.29 | brlcad | you'd think that wouldn't you.. :) |
| 05:48.47 | SuperTaz | you would |
| 05:48.54 | SuperTaz | doesn't mean it's true |
| 05:48.57 | SuperTaz | but you'd hope ;) |
| 05:49.47 | brlcad | the premiere code that does the interaction is far from real-time, also takes extensive prepartion to set up |
| 05:49.49 | SuperTaz | they used ODE for eternal sunshine of the spotless mind?? |
| 05:50.06 | SuperTaz | well, real-time = less accurate |
| 05:50.17 | SuperTaz | you're talking about precision vs. speed |
| 05:50.35 | SuperTaz | precision is definitely better in materials simulations |
| 05:52.05 | brlcad | yep |
| 05:53.29 | brlcad | when you care that it's "rolled aluminum 4122" vs "hardened aluminum 5293" compared to the sims that just care that it was "aluminum" or even worse "some metal" material |
| 05:53.55 | SuperTaz | well, for materials simulations, you always care |
| 05:53.56 | SuperTaz | a lot |
| 05:54.33 | brlcad | depends on what you mean by a materials simulation I'd think |
| 05:54.51 | SuperTaz | if you're trying to determine what's going to happen when you drop something from 50 feet, you care about the properties of the materials, how they dampen force, shock, and momentum, etc. |
| 05:55.43 | brlcad | well sure, that's a very specific relatively high-energy interaction |
| 05:55.57 | SuperTaz | that's what I need to simulate :) |
| 05:56.24 | brlcad | simulate dropping that material from 1 inch, and the simulation becomes very different |
| 05:56.48 | SuperTaz | actually, it's harder at 1 inch than at 50 feet |
| 05:56.57 | SuperTaz | because you have to be far more precise |
| 05:57.13 | SuperTaz | calculations require high precision at 1" |
| 05:57.22 | brlcad | still, depending on the purpose |
| 05:57.25 | SuperTaz | at 50', they just have to be accurate |
| 05:57.49 | brlcad | there was an implicit constraint of looking at the same order of magnitude change |
| 05:57.59 | SuperTaz | heh :) |
| 05:58.00 | SuperTaz | okay |
| 05:58.00 | brlcad | e.g. "how much mass is retained" |
| 05:58.12 | brlcad | very different between the two |
| 05:59.15 | brlcad | but I agree that you can ask just as hard if not harder questions for any interaction |
| 05:59.50 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 06:00.38 | SuperTaz | it should be sufficient to estimate how much force is applied to what areas, and whether deformation/breakage/absorption/damping threshholds are crossed |
| 06:00.59 | SuperTaz | and then what amount of energy is translated, in what direction, and so on |
| 06:01.48 | SuperTaz | basically, if I have 4 pieces of steel and dampers between them, and hit them with something, how much will each move/rebound if they're on the floor |
| 06:03.50 | SuperTaz | well, I used the example because the ground doesn't move |
| 06:04.00 | SuperTaz | it's a simpler calculation |
| 06:04.09 | brlcad | neither does a 70 ton tank generally speaking ;) |
| 06:04.15 | SuperTaz | right |
| 06:04.16 | brlcad | at least not significantly |
| 06:04.59 | SuperTaz | actually, they move about the same amount, when it's a relatively low energy application (i.e. dropping 10 lbs 50 feet onto the stack) |
| 06:05.45 | SuperTaz | they absorb/dissipate with similar characteristics |
| 06:05.56 | SuperTaz | it's stuff like the human body that gets harder |
| 06:05.59 | SuperTaz | but you can cheat |
| 06:06.04 | brlcad | yup |
| 06:06.15 | SuperTaz | essentially, you can similate a ballistics gel primitive |
| 06:06.20 | SuperTaz | and then you get close enough |
| 06:06.27 | brlcad | the velocities are generally much different too |
| 06:06.36 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 06:06.38 | SuperTaz | oops |
| 06:06.54 | SuperTaz | hrmmm...it's on opennurbs |
| 06:07.07 | brlcad | hah, wow |
| 06:07.12 | SuperTaz | slow, huh? :) |
| 06:07.17 | brlcad | quite |
| 06:07.22 | SuperTaz | G4 400 :) |
| 06:07.23 | brlcad | that a g4? |
| 06:07.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:07.28 | SuperTaz | yup |
| 06:07.31 | SuperTaz | it's archaic |
| 06:07.37 | SuperTaz | no $$ to upgrade it |
| 06:07.48 | SuperTaz | would be nice to bump it up to a faster G4 |
| 06:07.53 | SuperTaz | someday... |
| 06:07.53 | brlcad | that's probably going to take about 2 hours from start to finish |
| 06:08.01 | SuperTaz | 2 hours isn't too bad |
| 06:08.59 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 06:09.00 | SuperTaz | nice |
| 06:09.47 | SuperTaz | you working for DoD? |
| 06:09.48 | brlcad | used to take 2, but opennurbs and other developments over the past year have slowed things down |
| 06:09.59 | SuperTaz | yeah, I'm sure they'd add to it |
| 06:10.39 | brlcad | aside from g++ just taking way longer than gcc, in general |
| 06:11.02 | SuperTaz | SGI tried to hire me when they bought Cray, to figure out how to internetwork the two platforms |
| 06:11.04 | brlcad | though opennurbs is the only bit that is affected by that |
| 06:11.31 | SuperTaz | it's in the d's, now |
| 06:11.36 | SuperTaz | openurbs_defines.cpp |
| 06:11.46 | SuperTaz | detail... |
| 06:11.49 | brlcad | the one technology sgi did fortunately retain/leverage successfully |
| 06:12.14 | SuperTaz | yes, I didn't go work for them |
| 06:12.19 | brlcad | the craylink fiber that become numalink |
| 06:12.23 | SuperTaz | if I had, my life would have been different |
| 06:12.24 | SuperTaz | yup |
| 06:12.32 | SuperTaz | that's what I was supposed to work on, too ;) |
| 06:12.53 | SuperTaz | they were all like, WTF are we supposed to do with this?!? |
| 06:13.09 | brlcad | =) |
| 06:13.11 | SuperTaz | meantime, I'd just finished up a contract at Sun, managing a performance lab ;) |
| 06:13.32 | SuperTaz | dealing with the (at the time) super-fast OC-3 and OC-12 stuff |
| 06:13.41 | SuperTaz | and OMG!!! FIBER TO THE DESKTOP!!! |
| 06:14.23 | SuperTaz | nothing like trying to determine why a driver is caught in a lock-spin-lock pattern, instead of spin-lock-spin |
| 06:14.49 | SuperTaz | damned drivers were slower than 100M until that got fixed |
| 06:14.56 | brlcad | i still often wish apple would have bought out sgi to recover the high-end graphics niche and supercomputing technologies sgi still held |
| 06:15.16 | SuperTaz | yeah, woulda been nice |
| 06:15.25 | SuperTaz | but it didn't happen |
| 06:18.16 | SuperTaz | my G4 would have a 64 meg framebuffer with a z-buffer in it |
| 06:18.24 | SuperTaz | and wouldn't be a 16 meg ATI Rage PRo |
| 06:18.26 | SuperTaz | :P |
| 06:18.29 | brlcad | hehe |
| 06:18.35 | brlcad | is that a single? |
| 06:18.44 | SuperTaz | actually, though, I know a guy who designs the ATI GPUs :) |
| 06:18.50 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 06:19.01 | SuperTaz | it's dual |
| 06:19.05 | SuperTaz | the machine is SP, though |
| 06:19.13 | SuperTaz | but I've got a VGA port and a DVI port |
| 06:19.30 | SuperTaz | and the damned DVI port won't do 1650 |
| 06:19.35 | SuperTaz | which SUCKS |
| 06:19.50 | brlcad | ah, then you could speed up your compile |
| 06:19.51 | SuperTaz | because I have a Samsung 226BW |
| 06:19.56 | brlcad | you using -j3 ? |
| 06:20.02 | SuperTaz | no |
| 06:20.08 | SuperTaz | I normally would have |
| 06:20.20 | SuperTaz | but I was just happy to get it to compile |
| 06:20.26 | SuperTaz | it's single proc, single core |
| 06:20.44 | SuperTaz | so -j2 or -j3 at the outside are about all you can do to maximize |
| 06:21.02 | SuperTaz | next build I'll do -j3 |
| 06:21.07 | brlcad | erm .. "it's dual" but the machine is SP? |
| 06:21.28 | brlcad | it's either got one cpu or two, which is it? :) |
| 06:23.19 | elite01 | HT - also known as 1.2 CPUs :) |
| 06:23.46 | brlcad | the g4 didn't have ht.. |
| 06:24.13 | elite01 | no idea about macs |
| 06:25.44 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 06:25.49 | SuperTaz | no |
| 06:25.55 | SuperTaz | it's SP |
| 06:25.58 | SuperTaz | single proc |
| 06:26.03 | SuperTaz | it's dual capable |
| 06:26.19 | SuperTaz | but I can't afford a daughter card with two procs |
| 06:26.26 | SuperTaz | it's dual headed |
| 06:26.35 | brlcad | ah |
| 06:26.35 | elite01 | ok |
| 06:26.37 | SuperTaz | (If I want) |
| 06:26.55 | brlcad | then yeah, -j wouldn't really do much for ya |
| 06:27.03 | SuperTaz | -j2 helps |
| 06:27.13 | SuperTaz | -j3 even, sometimes |
| 06:28.10 | SuperTaz | because even on a SP machine you can squeeze more efficiency out when one process is io bound and the other is processor bound |
| 06:28.21 | SuperTaz | -j3 can help or hinder |
| 06:28.28 | SuperTaz | -j4 and above only hinder |
| 06:28.38 | elite01 | makes sense |
| 06:29.07 | brlcad | usually use something 1.5 to 2x whatever is available for that same reason |
| 06:29.16 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 06:29.29 | SuperTaz | as I said before, though |
| 06:29.34 | brlcad | particularly for autocruft apps that have big i/o interlacing phases |
| 06:29.41 | SuperTaz | I just was happy enough to get the compile even STARTED ;) |
| 06:30.03 | SuperTaz | opennurbs...STILL |
| 06:30.11 | SuperTaz | planesurface |
| 06:30.37 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 06:30.50 | SuperTaz | I must have forgotten to feed the hamster before I plugged it in to the accelerator port... |
| 06:30.58 | SuperTaz | too late now |
| 06:31.09 | SuperTaz | brb...need to take the dog out :) |
| 06:33.46 | MinuteElectron | You mean... That I have been to bed and woken up and you were at work all that time..... |
| 06:41.20 | SuperTaz | I think he does |
| 06:41.42 | SuperTaz | true dedication (or lack of home life) |
| 06:41.50 | SuperTaz | oh, FINALLY |
| 06:41.59 | SuperTaz | linking opennurbs |
| 06:50.50 | SuperTaz | ok...I'm off ot bed |
| 06:50.54 | SuperTaz | night night all :) |
| 06:51.05 | MinuteElectron | goodnight |
| 07:16.17 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: something like that |
| 07:16.26 | MinuteElectron | :P |
| 07:17.00 | MinuteElectron | having a look at some of them webpages in that text document, the design I am making at the moment seams a bit... bland. I am making some changes to it. |
| 07:20.21 | brlcad | sounds good |
| 07:20.41 | brlcad | like I said, i really do expect that will be the hardest and probably the most time consuming part to get doing |
| 07:20.50 | brlcad | s/doing/going/ |
| 07:50.42 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Does the logo need alpha transparency or can I downgrade it to single-color transparency? |
| 08:05.23 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: If you would like to take a look and give your views on a preliminary outline I have done, not much yet, but I would rather restyle it now than once I finished the entire thing - http://localhost/drupal-5.1/ |
| 08:05.33 | MinuteElectron | oops http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 08:19.26 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 08:49.33 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 09:24.34 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 09:58.30 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.113.221) | |
| 10:33.46 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 10:53.36 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 11:36.38 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-092.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 11:52.27 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 12:40.24 | poolio | mornin' |
| 13:17.43 | *** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) | |
| 13:39.43 | poolio | brlcad: sometime today it'd be sweet if you could explain a bit to me how to get a binary tree from the internal stored CSG tree :) |
| 14:08.34 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 14:09.47 | brlcad | poolio: okay, but it'll be a while |
| 14:10.05 | poolio | brlcad: alright. I'm just having issues understanding how everything is stored and how to interact with the stored trees |
| 14:10.52 | poolio | any source code examples anywhere? I see the red black tree stuff, is that what I'm looking for? |
| 14:10.56 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: busy? |
| 14:11.35 | brlcad | poolio: no, but you could certainly store your tree in a rb treee |
| 14:11.38 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: a bit |
| 14:12.04 | MinuteElectron | Okay, whe you get a chance your opinon on http://localhost/drupal-5.1/ would be appreciated. I have done a lot of work on it this morning, but there is no rush. |
| 14:12.12 | brlcad | poolio: probably first want to get familiar with creating csg trees (man libwdb, look in src/proc-db and/or src/mk) |
| 14:12.21 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: localhost doesn't help me :) |
| 14:12.34 | MinuteElectron | Oops, http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 14:12.37 | poolio | brlcad: thanks |
| 14:13.22 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to work online with the internally stored tree? like duplicate an entire CSG tree and the modify it internally and save it to a new database? |
| 14:13.24 | brlcad | poolio: then after you know how to create them, you can look at the code that traverses them -- the converters are pretty boilerplate src/conv/ |
| 14:13.40 | poolio | alright cool. that should be plenty to start me off with, thanks for the pointers |
| 14:13.40 | brlcad | there are at least three different ways to traverse too |
| 14:13.51 | MinuteElectron | The logos on the side are there to make the sidebar bigger for the time being, but will be removed once I add more stuff to the sidebar. |
| 14:13.51 | poolio | eek. and i'm sure advantages and disadvantages for reach |
| 14:14.05 | brlcad | db_walk_tree() being one, manual iteration, and another whose name escapes me |
| 14:15.15 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: looking like progress, though I'd remove all the powered by spam on the panel :) .. there should be a page dedicated that talks about the site, gives credits |
| 14:15.39 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, as I said - that was just to make the sidebar longer. |
| 14:15.53 | brlcad | ah, missed that |
| 14:16.01 | MinuteElectron | dw |
| 14:16.43 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I wasn't keeping logs, can you remind me what is going into MediaWiki and what is going into Drupal? |
| 14:17.36 | brlcad | mediawiki is all of the dynamic content, drupal is for the stuff that hooks into a database or stuff that is fairly static |
| 14:18.24 | brlcad | e.g. there's going to be a knowledge base "faq" of sorts -- that's entirely mediawiki |
| 14:19.01 | brlcad | but a profile page of premiere brl-cad users would be in a drupal page |
| 14:19.04 | MinuteElectron | Okay, that gives me a good starting point. |
| 14:20.11 | MinuteElectron | So as a brainstorm: |
| 14:20.28 | MinuteElectron | What are the items going to be listed on the navigation? |
| 14:20.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: strip out flags that have ${variables} in them that refer to the src path |
| 14:21.00 | MinuteElectron | I presume you want 'Home', 'About', 'News' |
| 14:22.29 | MinuteElectron | I guess that they will all be on Drupal. |
| 14:22.37 | MinuteElectron | Download would also be on Drupal |
| 14:23.31 | MinuteElectron | and probably Contact (although I am not sure whether or not it would be best to use a MediaWiki extension, Drupal extension or custom form for that). |
| 14:23.51 | MinuteElectron | Then the documentation and FAQ would be on MediaWiki. |
| 14:23.52 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: http://my.brlcad.org/sitemap.txt |
| 14:24.01 | MinuteElectron | Oh, cool. |
| 14:24.06 | brlcad | subject to change and rearrangmenet of course, but that's a start |
| 14:24.13 | MinuteElectron | You always seem to be one step ahead of me :P |
| 14:24.35 | brlcad | been ready for this for quite a while -- just need someone to actually do it and take all the glory ;) |
| 14:26.03 | brlcad | also, be sure to drop the register mark -- I'm not convinced the phrase itself is registered any more, at most it's a TM |
| 14:26.28 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 14:45.21 | poolio | |10:18| <@ brlcad> mediawiki is all of the dynamic content, drupal is for the stuff that hooks into a database or stuff that is fairly static |
| 14:45.24 | poolio | |10:18| <@ brlcad> e.g. there's going to be a knowledge base "faq" of sorts -- that's entirely mediawiki |
| 14:45.27 | poolio | |10:19| <@ brlcad> but a profile page of premiere brl-cad users would be in a drupal page |
| 14:45.32 | poolio | ah sorry guys |
| 14:45.38 | poolio | Middle mouse button in dismay :\ |
| 15:29.18 | SuperTaz | Elapsed compilation time: 3 hours, 33 minutes, 42 seconds |
| 15:29.29 | SuperTaz | that's how long it takes on a G4 400 |
| 15:30.02 | brlcad | heh SuperTaz .. |
| 15:30.29 | SuperTaz | sad, huh? |
| 15:31.03 | brlcad | i thought my dual 500 g4 was slow :) |
| 15:31.17 | SuperTaz | hahaha |
| 15:31.31 | SuperTaz | this thing crawls :) |
| 15:32.19 | poolio | makes my aging laptop feel speedy :) |
| 15:32.29 | SuperTaz | heh :) |
| 15:33.05 | SuperTaz | yeah...I'm doing make install, first |
| 15:33.47 | poolio | brlcad: I'm taking g2asc.c and stripping it to my needs :) |
| 15:46.47 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/?q=user/register and http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 15:47.50 | MinuteElectron | Please suggest improvements, everything is working (fully tested in Safari, IE, Firefox and Safari) except the list in the left box when you are logged in and the tabs (no longer tabs) in IE. |
| 15:49.04 | SuperTaz | install just finished |
| 15:50.00 | poolio | is the color scheme permanent? like the "solid modeling for a strong defense" banner doesn't really fit well with the left nav bar |
| 15:50.22 | MinuteElectron | It can be changed, what color do you suggest? |
| 15:50.54 | poolio | dunno, i'm not a good design person, I just don't think it works :P |
| 15:51.02 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 15:51.07 | poolio | You could try just matching it to the left nav green |
| 15:51.17 | MinuteElectron | perhaps, one sec |
| 15:51.53 | poolio | http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/themes/brlcad/gradient.jpg <-- scale it down pleeeeease :) |
| 15:52.31 | SuperTaz | Minimum run time is 3 minutes, 12 seconds |
| 15:52.31 | SuperTaz | Maximum run time is 30 minutes |
| 15:52.31 | SuperTaz | Estimated time is 9 minutes, 36 seconds |
| 15:52.59 | MinuteElectron | poolio: Will do once I am finished. |
| 15:53.53 | MinuteElectron | poolio: look now |
| 15:54.07 | MinuteElectron | I think the colors do need to be different. |
| 15:54.18 | MinuteElectron | Let me try a different one |
| 15:55.25 | SuperTaz | interesting watching this thing run |
| 15:55.25 | poolio | MinuteElectron: I don't think it's just the colors, I think my main gripe is I want more of a banner at the top of a page |
| 15:55.34 | SuperTaz | probably doesn't help that I'm doing other things at the same time, though |
| 15:55.42 | poolio | note: my opinion doesn't matter and it is only my opinion, so don't just change it cause I don't like it, other people may think it's awesome :) |
| 15:56.00 | MinuteElectron | no, I need a second opinon |
| 15:56.09 | MinuteElectron | poolio: so you want the banner to be alightly taller |
| 15:56.46 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 15:56.47 | MinuteElectron | *slightly taller? |
| 15:58.38 | MinuteElectron | poolio: look now |
| 16:00.41 | SuperTaz | Abs Fruit-Punch.local 47236.61 22868.08 27491.27 22049.86 25273.94 31281.82 29366.93 Fri Jun 29 10:59:04 CDT 2007 |
| 16:00.41 | SuperTaz | *vgr Fruit-Punch.local 344.76 341.00 490.30 413.22 357.53 2.11 324.82 |
| 16:00.41 | SuperTaz | #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# |
| 16:00.41 | SuperTaz | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 325 |
| 16:00.41 | SuperTaz | Logarithmic VGR metric is 2.51 (natural logarithm is 5.78) |
| 16:00.43 | SuperTaz | #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# |
| 16:01.57 | SuperTaz | that's a G4 400 |
| 16:02.02 | SuperTaz | with other stuff going on |
| 16:02.21 | brlcad | heh, nice |
| 16:03.15 | SuperTaz | yeah |
| 16:03.28 | brlcad | SuperTaz: it won't be incredibly affected by other activities on the machine as it is measuring cpu time, wallclock measurements are stored elsewhere |
| 16:03.36 | brlcad | at most, a 10% variance |
| 16:03.45 | SuperTaz | less than half the speed of your dual 500 unde 10.2 |
| 16:04.01 | SuperTaz | but 10.4 is known to have higher overhead in exchange for more stability |
| 16:04.03 | brlcad | which is probably about right given the lineage of those machines |
| 16:04.12 | SuperTaz | could be |
| 16:04.38 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: busy? |
| 16:04.44 | SuperTaz | is your dual 500 a sawtooth, gigabit ethernet, digital audio, or quicksilver? |
| 16:15.17 | SuperTaz | well, mged appears to actually run :) |
| 16:27.55 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Please can you take a look at the website? |
| 16:29.49 | *** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@kneazle.ethz.ch) | |
| 16:54.36 | AchiestDragon | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 3421 |
| 16:54.38 | AchiestDragon | Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.53 (natural logarithm is 8.14) |
| 16:54.49 | SuperTaz | what is that? |
| 16:54.54 | SuperTaz | (arch) |
| 16:55.31 | SuperTaz | not bad |
| 16:58.03 | elite01 | quad xeon and just a gig of ram? pah! :) |
| 16:58.48 | AchiestDragon | for £200 GBP im not grumbling |
| 17:00.15 | elite01 | uh |
| 17:00.15 | elite01 | ook |
| 17:00.31 | brlcad | SuperTaz: I suspect with the right CFLAGS, you'd actually come out at around 400MHz .. the G4 is almost right on 100 vgr's per MHz |
| 17:00.44 | brlcad | s/400MHz/400 vgrs/ |
| 17:02.32 | elite01 | where's thy benchmark result stored? |
| 17:02.48 | brlcad | elite01: hm? |
| 17:02.53 | elite01 | in brlcad? |
| 17:02.59 | elite01 | some file? |
| 17:03.08 | brlcad | don't understand the question |
| 17:03.27 | brlcad | when you run the benchmark, it outputs the results right then and there as well as writing out to log files |
| 17:03.29 | elite01 | if i run the brlcad benchmark, is the result stored in some file or just printed to the console? |
| 17:03.30 | SuperTaz | you think I could get it that high? |
| 17:04.22 | elite01 | can't find the log file, just individual ones for the pictures |
| 17:04.39 | brlcad | elite01: the file named "summary" has the important details |
| 17:04.41 | brlcad | two lines per run |
| 17:05.19 | brlcad | if you are using the latest cvs head sources, then there's also a run-####-benchmark.log file that has the entire output that you saw during the run written to a file |
| 17:05.43 | elite01 | hmm i can't find either |
| 17:06.35 | elite01 | anyway, this centrino duo seems to be pretty decent |
| 17:08.21 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 17:08.28 | AchiestDragon | its ony a dual cpu xeon it shows up as 4 because of hyperthreading |
| 17:08.37 | elite01 | i see |
| 17:08.53 | SuperTaz | HT is blech |
| 17:09.03 | SuperTaz | get one with dual cores :) |
| 17:09.14 | elite01 | still, i just have 3324.60 bogomips on each cpu (which of course precisely describes the performance, as the name implies) |
| 17:10.45 | brlcad | elite01: are you running from cvs head? |
| 17:10.52 | brlcad | if so, the results are in the bench/ dir |
| 17:10.54 | elite01 | hmm no, just 7.10 |
| 17:13.59 | elite01 | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 3544 |
| 17:13.59 | elite01 | Logarithmic VGR metric is 3,55 (natural logarithm is 8,17) |
| 17:14.03 | elite01 | look at that, AchiestDragon :P |
| 17:14.12 | elite01 | on a T2300 |
| 17:14.13 | elite01 | gtg, cu |
| 18:09.21 | *** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch) | |
| 18:15.45 | AchiestDragon | not bad |
| 18:16.59 | AchiestDragon | but as you can see from this pic http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/desk.jpg i have 3 dual xeon machines atm |
| 18:22.26 | AchiestDragon | i have been looking at getting a dual quad core xeon mobo and chips but there a bit overpriced atm |
| 18:23.04 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 18:27.00 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: hehe, a rack in your room.. nice |
| 18:27.08 | brlcad | that's gotta be a bit noisy |
| 18:27.22 | brlcad | that wood paneling? |
| 18:27.54 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 18:28.04 | AchiestDragon | its got a half door it makes the systems a bit quieter , no its cardboard on the sides the side pannels are a bit tatty |
| 18:28.21 | brlcad | ah |
| 18:29.26 | dtidrow | just ran 'make benchmark' on my Dell M90 here: 5620 |
| 18:29.54 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 18:29.58 | dtidrow | not too shabby for a latop :-) |
| 18:30.06 | AchiestDragon | :) |
| 18:30.31 | dtidrow | of course, work owns it ;-) |
| 18:31.02 | dtidrow | no way I could afford a $7k laptop... |
| 18:31.17 | brlcad | that's pretty sweet for a laptop |
| 18:31.30 | dtidrow | mbp? |
| 18:32.05 | dtidrow | you want system specs? |
| 18:32.09 | dtidrow | 10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 2802MB/3288MB Free] 10disk[Total : 3.28GB/48.48GB Free] 10video[Quadro FX 2500M] 10sound[] |
| 18:34.03 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net) | |
| 18:34.09 | dtidrow | there's actually 4GB of system memory, but apparently it can only access ~3.3GB of it in 32-bit mode - I'd have to switch to a 64-bit install to get at the rest |
| 18:35.22 | poolio | man. i want a new laptop now :P |
| 18:35.46 | brlcad | mac book pro |
| 18:36.01 | dtidrow | oh, yeah - 1920x1200 flatpanel :-) |
| 18:36.15 | brlcad | ah, not that one |
| 18:36.23 | brlcad | i won't get that one for a few more weeks |
| 18:36.32 | poolio | ...bastard |
| 18:36.35 | brlcad | i have the one right before it now |
| 18:36.45 | poolio | brlcad: send me the old one ;) |
| 18:36.49 | dtidrow | lol |
| 18:36.50 | brlcad | hehe |
| 18:37.07 | brlcad | that new display on those is amazing |
| 18:37.34 | poolio | you're gonna kill your eyes looking at that flat panel. 1600 is bad enough |
| 18:37.35 | dtidrow | wish it had one of the mobile G80-based gfx cards, though... |
| 18:37.54 | dtidrow | pixels? what pixels? ;-) |
| 18:38.53 | dtidrow | yeah, I've had to up the font size on most of my apps - turning forty sucks... |
| 18:38.56 | AchiestDragon | i like the dell 2405fpw 24" lcd i have , the new 32" is even better aparantly |
| 18:39.30 | dtidrow | and the prices for those have really come down, too |
| 18:39.53 | AchiestDragon | they seem to be droping each month |
| 18:40.10 | dtidrow | I have one at home, but those new 24" LCD's for around $650 are really tempting... |
| 18:40.51 | AchiestDragon | btw if you still have a crt a new 19" lcd will pay for itself 2 years just by what you save in power over a 20" crt |
| 18:41.25 | poolio | yeah yeah. once I get my paycheck I might think about investing in one to take with me to college |
| 18:43.38 | MinuteElectron | I sit here with a feeling of awe. I thought getting a 19" LCD flat panel monitor was good, yet you guys talk about 24" LCD's as if they are mid-range. |
| 18:44.14 | dtidrow | they are now :-) |
| 18:44.20 | AchiestDragon | yes |
| 18:44.36 | dtidrow | just a couple of years ago they were $2000 or more |
| 18:44.50 | MinuteElectron | Heh, my 2.4Ghz processor could never compete with what you guys are benchmarking at. |
| 18:45.28 | brlcad | 24"? pffft. |
| 18:45.35 | dtidrow | I need to try my Athlon X2 at home and see how it does - still haven't finished updating it |
| 18:45.52 | dtidrow | Mike would be proud ;-) |
| 18:45.58 | brlcad | :-) |
| 18:45.58 | AchiestDragon | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Dell-Ultrasharp-2407WFP-24-LCD-Flat-Panel-Monitor_W0QQitemZ120134332519QQihZ002QQcategoryZ174QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 18:47.50 | dtidrow | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3066352&CatId=2775 - holy crap |
| 18:47.57 | dtidrow | wonder if it's any good.... |
| 18:48.23 | dtidrow | $440 for a 24" 1920x1200??? damn! |
| 18:51.19 | brlcad | nice |
| 18:51.46 | dtidrow | yeah - wonder what's wrong with it... ;-) |
| 18:52.02 | poolio | brlcad: if my monitor "breaks" and I suddenly cannot work.... hmmm.... |
| 18:52.30 | dtidrow | lol |
| 18:52.34 | brlcad | i probably have an old 12" b&w crt I could loan ya |
| 18:52.41 | dtidrow | rofl |
| 18:53.02 | poolio | brlcad: damn you. :P |
| 18:53.06 | brlcad | g'evening cadguy |
| 18:53.21 | cadguy | Top of the day brlcad |
| 18:53.28 | brlcad | or afternoon or whatever it is |
| 18:54.13 | dtidrow | yeah, that was nice |
| 18:54.22 | cadguy | Anybody running out to get their iPhone today? |
| 18:54.31 | dtidrow | pfft! |
| 18:54.50 | AchiestDragon | the 30" dell ones are £815 GBP here atm |
| 18:55.44 | SuperTaz | I have a 22" Samsung |
| 18:55.44 | SuperTaz | 2ms |
| 18:55.54 | SuperTaz | nicest damned monitor I've seen |
| 18:56.01 | SuperTaz | still gives me wood |
| 18:56.11 | brlcad | cadguy: probably tomorrow |
| 18:56.31 | MinuteElectron | SuperTaz: What model? |
| 18:56.35 | dtidrow | SuperTaz: which model? |
| 18:56.37 | brlcad | maybe later today, but pretty busy afternoon |
| 18:56.39 | dtidrow | gmta |
| 18:57.02 | SuperTaz | it's a 226BW |
| 18:57.17 | MinuteElectron | I have a 940N |
| 18:57.23 | poolio | You guys and your toys, share the weatlh. |
| 18:57.38 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:57.44 | MinuteElectron | SuperTaz: It is the same, but only 19" and only has analog input and is not widescreen. |
| 18:58.06 | dtidrow | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2881203&CatId=2775 - not bad... |
| 18:58.21 | dtidrow | $320 before the rebate |
| 18:58.39 | MinuteElectron | <-- mine http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2487377&sku=S203-1942 |
| 18:59.07 | SuperTaz | so, basically, it's a different monitor ;) |
| 18:59.22 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 18:59.45 | MinuteElectron | *space |
| 18:59.59 | IriX64 | http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos (stuff albumn) 1st picture |
| 19:01.42 | poolio | Wow guys |
| 19:01.56 | poolio | this is my monitor: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2995&review=Asus+W3J |
| 19:02.02 | dtidrow | IriX64: isn't working here |
| 19:02.12 | IriX64 | that url? |
| 19:02.17 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 19:02.25 | poolio | IriX64: it never works for me |
| 19:02.42 | dtidrow | poolio: nice compact laptop :-) |
| 19:02.44 | poolio | dtidrow: xml parsing error? |
| 19:02.49 | IriX64 | try now |
| 19:02.59 | poolio | dtidrow: Yes it is, the issue I have is it's a bit small and uncomfortable for 9 hour work days. |
| 19:03.07 | dtidrow | XML Parsing Error: syntax error |
| 19:03.07 | dtidrow | Location: http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/ |
| 19:03.07 | dtidrow | Line Number 3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN"> |
| 19:03.07 | dtidrow | ------------------------------------------------^ |
| 19:03.09 | poolio | I'm looking to get an ultraportable for college, like a 12 or 13" |
| 19:03.26 | IriX64 | what are you using? |
| 19:03.30 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 19:03.38 | *** join/#brlcad jimmybrb (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 19:04.01 | dtidrow | firefox v.1.5.0.12 |
| 19:10.12 | IriX64 | ftp://www3.sympatico.ca/ try that, havoc.png |
| 19:11.16 | cadguy | poolio: I've been impressed with the MacBook. Nice CPU. The only thing it lacks is a really high performance graphics chip (they save that for the Pro) |
| 19:11.16 | dtidrow | ugh - not loading :-\ |
| 19:11.25 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:11.57 | poolio | cadguy: Yeah, I'm not sure I want a macbook. They're a bit overpriced for what you get and everyone has them. I'd also want something smaller and with better battery life I think |
| 19:12.20 | poolio | This 14" is really nice, and a nice GPU, the issue is just that the battery life is short cause of the GPU and it's a bit too heavy to trek around with. |
| 19:13.33 | cadguy | I've also had good luck with Lenovo. My issues is I want something *reliable*. The Macs and Lenovo's have been good to me. |
| 19:13.34 | poolio | cadguy: and as corny as it is, I need my right mouse button, mainly for key combos in my WM |
| 19:13.52 | poolio | is there a 12 or 13" lenovo? |
| 19:14.37 | poolio | I think with the new macbook pros they should have just gone ahead and divided it in two. I mean how often do you find yourself Ctrl+Clicking...there's a reason the mighty mouse exists for the desktop, now give us right click on the laptops |
| 19:15.25 | dtidrow | dang, this laptop isn't as expensive as I thought - ~$4200 for this configuration |
| 19:15.35 | cadguy | Check the lenovo X series. |
| 19:15.38 | poolio | are you kidding me? |
| 19:15.44 | poolio | dtidrow: that sounds hella expensive to me |
| 19:15.54 | dtidrow | less than what I thought it was |
| 19:15.57 | cadguy | Again, my criteria is *reliable* |
| 19:16.04 | dtidrow | I was guessing it was around $7000 |
| 19:16.27 | poolio | cadguy: as opposed to? bleeding edge? |
| 19:16.32 | cadguy | 61's start at 1215.00 US |
| 19:17.09 | poolio | cadguy: ugh, they are only XGA? |
| 19:17.09 | cadguy | gotta go get lunch |
| 19:17.21 | poolio | cadguy: enjoy |
| 19:18.29 | brlcad | cadguy: is that the same chris johnson?? |
| 19:18.39 | brlcad | (from the article) |
| 19:18.41 | MinuteElectron | cadguy: 61" monitor? |
| 19:18.42 | IriX64 | dtidrow: check that site for rotated :) |
| 19:19.33 | MinuteElectron | http://82.7.33.28/public/100_1028.jpg <-- my monitor |
| 19:19.36 | MinuteElectron | *computer |
| 19:20.33 | IriX64 | back to my compile :) |
| 19:20.45 | dtidrow | IriX64: which site? |
| 19:20.56 | poolio | MinuteElectron: Do I spy mIRC? |
| 19:21.13 | MinuteElectron | No, that would be ChatZilla. |
| 19:21.54 | MinuteElectron | poolio: lol, what is bad about mIRC? |
| 19:22.11 | SuperTaz | wrong question |
| 19:22.15 | poolio | ...nothing |
| 19:22.20 | MinuteElectron | oh, |
| 19:22.22 | MinuteElectron | I see, |
| 19:22.25 | MinuteElectron | mIRC is good. |
| 19:25.21 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you busy? |
| 19:25.34 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: always |
| 19:25.34 | brlcad | what's up? |
| 19:26.50 | MinuteElectron | I altered the colors, added the tabs and added the navigation. |
| 19:27.06 | brlcad | I see I see |
| 19:27.10 | brlcad | hmmm |
| 19:28.10 | brlcad | don't like the tagline up top, but the bar color is interesting |
| 19:28.12 | MinuteElectron | The tabs (although they aren't really tabs) don't work properly in IE yet (still trying to diagnose the problem) and the box on the left has this freaky navigation thing which I can't get to go white (when you are logged in). |
| 19:28.35 | MinuteElectron | So keep the bar, but remove the tagline? |
| 19:28.55 | MinuteElectron | and perhaps make the bar a solid color? |
| 19:29.21 | IriX64 | it's beautiful MinuteElectron |
| 19:29.43 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: you really think so? wow, thanks. |
| 19:30.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you still thinking? |
| 19:30.36 | IriX64 | first time i've seen it |
| 19:31.09 | IriX64 | login username a bit large but that could be a good thing :) |
| 19:31.10 | brlcad | dtidrow and whomever else was following, MBP benchmark results: |
| 19:31.12 | brlcad | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 5937 |
| 19:31.28 | poolio | brlcad: are you kidding me!?!?!? |
| 19:31.39 | poolio | brlcad: what kind of crazy optimizations did you do... I've got dual 1.83s and I only got 3k |
| 19:31.40 | IriX64 | what else was going on? |
| 19:32.44 | dtidrow | brlcad: MBP? |
| 19:32.49 | brlcad | poolio: did you --enable-optimized? |
| 19:32.58 | brlcad | dtidrow: mac book pro |
| 19:33.02 | dtidrow | ah |
| 19:33.05 | IriX64 | when mine builds i'll try one :) |
| 19:33.18 | dtidrow | which cpu? |
| 19:33.33 | IriX64 | me? opteron |
| 19:33.57 | brlcad | Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz |
| 19:34.09 | dtidrow | 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz w/ 4096 KB L2 Cache] |
| 19:34.17 | dtidrow | that one, iow :-) |
| 19:34.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: update CloseTo signature (takes a Sample (rename to ON_CurveSample or something) to return the closes point) |
| 19:34.36 | brlcad | er, you have a 2x2cpu? |
| 19:35.21 | dtidrow | dual core, yes |
| 19:35.28 | brlcad | i.e. two dual cores |
| 19:35.52 | brlcad | or a single dual core |
| 19:36.00 | brlcad | the 2 x is throwing me off |
| 19:36.02 | dtidrow | just the one dual-core cpu |
| 19:36.07 | brlcad | okay, so same chip |
| 19:36.54 | brlcad | difference is probably in the OS and optimization options |
| 19:36.56 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 19:36.58 | dtidrow | the cpu detection logic doesn't make the distinction between cores and cpu packages |
| 19:38.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_curve.h opennurbs_curve.cpp): flesh out implementation of CloseTo (generic curve version samples the curve and uses a binary search to try and find the closest point) |
| 19:40.18 | dtidrow | well, I ran configure with --enable-optimized, did you do anything else in addition? |
| 19:43.37 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 19:47.16 | brlcad | yup, a slew |
| 19:47.22 | brlcad | bbl |
| 19:52.55 | SuperTaz | brb |
| 20:00.14 | cadguy | MinuteElectron: I like the faded bar on the top. Looks cool. The green background on the left I think is a bit shocking or out of place. Pick complementary colors? |
| 20:00.55 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, I have one person saying the green on the left was bad and another saying that the green at the top (which I removed) was bad. It seams everyone hates green. |
| 20:01.29 | IriX64 | i like green reminds me i should commune with nature :) |
| 20:01.29 | *** join/#brlcad SuperTaz (n=taz@adsl-69-211-3-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) | |
| 20:01.31 | cadguy | The key is there is nothing else in the color scheme which works with the green. |
| 20:01.51 | MinuteElectron | There isn't? I thought that the gold went well... |
| 20:02.04 | MinuteElectron | Anyway, I need to think of a color to replace the green. |
| 20:02.14 | SuperTaz | there we go |
| 20:02.16 | cadguy | Everything else is softer. The green stands out as a saturated, in-your-face effect compared to the gradual muted tones elsewhere |
| 20:02.23 | IriX64 | ftp://www3.sympatico.ca (nowthisisasystem.png) shot of mine in action :) |
| 20:02.24 | SuperTaz | just added an extra 512 meg stick of RAM |
| 20:02.30 | SuperTaz | that helps a bit :) |
| 20:03.13 | cadguy | Desaturate the green and try it. |
| 20:03.39 | MinuteElectron | cadguy: ok |
| 20:03.43 | cadguy | Go for a slightly more olive look |
| 20:04.12 | cadguy | there's also the blue in the logo that you could work with. |
| 20:05.23 | cadguy | Perhaps the silver-grey of the right side of the eagle's head? Maybe a brown or a blue? |
| 20:06.25 | cadguy | The logo already gives a bit of the color scheme, unless you're willing to be modifying the logo somewhat. |
| 20:06.38 | MinuteElectron | look now |
| 20:07.25 | cadguy | Much less jarring. Need to mod the logo so the lower green area is "transparent" and matches the background I suppose. |
| 20:07.37 | cadguy | I like it much better now. |
| 20:07.45 | MinuteElectron | purge your cache please |
| 20:09.32 | IriX64 | forgot the faceplate, look for faceplate.png :) |
| 20:10.20 | cadguy | I'd still mod the green of the logo a little. Other than that, I think you've got something. Still need to drop the Tag line at the top? |
| 20:10.42 | MinuteElectron | brb |
| 20:12.10 | dtidrow | http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2151961,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532 - rofl at reason #1 |
| 20:12.47 | dtidrow | ah - no wonder it' |
| 20:13.20 | dtidrow | it's so deserted around here - it's "iPhone Day" ;-) |
| 20:17.48 | IriX64 | wheres the uPhone :) |
| 20:22.44 | MinuteElectron | cadguy: removed the tagline and topbar gradient |
| 20:24.08 | MinuteElectron | cadguy: I am not going to edit the logo because I didn't make it. If it is really important I will ask brlcad - he might have the original files. |
| 20:24.11 | IriX64 | should break down and understand that mug tutorial, instead of just playinf with the example geometry sigh. |
| 20:24.21 | IriX64 | errr playing |
| 20:25.27 | cadguy | MunuteElectron: Looking good now. |
| 20:25.36 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 20:25.38 | MinuteElectron | thxs |
| 20:26.07 | MinuteElectron | If only it didn't break in IE. |
| 20:27.07 | cadguy | There's a certain poetic justice there |
| 20:27.26 | IriX64 | how does it break in ie i just loaded it. |
| 20:27.49 | MinuteElectron | IE6 |
| 20:27.59 | IriX64 | thats me |
| 20:28.06 | MinuteElectron | hmm, which page are you on? |
| 20:28.06 | IriX64 | looks good |
| 20:28.14 | IriX64 | the test page |
| 20:28.18 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: do you have a different browseR? |
| 20:28.28 | IriX64 | i have firfox too |
| 20:28.33 | IriX64 | firefox |
| 20:29.05 | MinuteElectron | try it in there |
| 20:29.05 | IriX64 | just a sec. |
| 20:29.05 | MinuteElectron | it looks completely different. |
| 20:29.08 | MinuteElectron | then go to the create account page in IE, the yellow bar goes smaller |
| 20:30.30 | IriX64 | works here looks just as good :) |
| 20:31.04 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 20:31.11 | MinuteElectron | odd |
| 20:31.14 | MinuteElectron | very odd |
| 20:31.19 | MinuteElectron | what screen resolution are you on? |
| 20:31.28 | IriX64 | create account, just a sec ill reload ie |
| 20:31.40 | IriX64 | 1024x768 |
| 20:32.10 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, maybe that is the reason. |
| 20:32.30 | MinuteElectron | I am on 1280x1024 |
| 20:32.42 | MinuteElectron | Ahh well, if no one else can replicate it I needent worry. |
| 20:33.23 | IriX64 | ftp://www3.sympatico.ca ie.png |
| 20:34.37 | MinuteElectron | I cannot access that server for some reason. |
| 20:35.39 | MinuteElectron | I get a connection failed error. |
| 20:35.44 | IriX64 | really? |
| 20:35.46 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 20:35.54 | IriX64 | i was updating it sorry |
| 20:36.01 | IriX64 | try now |
| 20:36.10 | IriX64 | same server mapped.png :) |
| 20:37.00 | MinuteElectron | I still can't access it - it asks for a username, then a password then aborts |
| 20:40.19 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: You still there? |
| 20:42.58 | IriX64 | anonymous ftp |
| 20:43.19 | IriX64 | use any e-mail address i care little |
| 20:43.47 | IriX64 | who@who.com:) |
| 20:44.05 | IriX64 | waddayoucare@howdareyou.com:) |
| 20:44.12 | dtidrow | doesn't work here either |
| 20:44.33 | dtidrow | could be a filter of some sort on the domain, though |
| 20:44.41 | IriX64 | what are you using? |
| 20:44.44 | dtidrow | would commandline ftp work? |
| 20:44.49 | IriX64 | should |
| 20:44.54 | IriX64 | let me try |
| 20:44.58 | MinuteElectron | I am using WinSCP4 |
| 20:46.44 | dtidrow | [dtidrow@localhost ~]$ ftp www3.sympatico.ca |
| 20:46.44 | dtidrow | Connected to www3.sympatico.ca. |
| 20:46.44 | dtidrow | 220- Access to the Sympatico Personal Webserver |
| 20:46.44 | dtidrow | 220- is only available to Sympatico subscribers |
| 20:46.44 | dtidrow | 220- |
| 20:46.45 | dtidrow | 220- You must be connected via Bell Sympatico |
| 20:46.47 | dtidrow | 421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection |
| 20:46.49 | dtidrow | ftp> |
| 20:46.53 | MinuteElectron | same here |
| 20:47.04 | IriX64 | lemme call sympatico, ill be back |
| 21:01.43 | IriX64 | sigh they're looking at it sorry |
| 21:02.48 | MinuteElectron | dw |
| 21:04.25 | IriX64 | could give you my username and password i guess (*not*) :) |
| 21:06.04 | MinuteElectron | :P |
| 21:08.37 | IriX64 | sorry should have asked, do you want it? |
| 21:12.43 | MinuteElectron | want what? |
| 21:12.52 | IriX64 | a dcc of ie.png |
| 21:12.59 | IriX64 | dcc send |
| 21:14.03 | MinuteElectron | sure |
| 21:29.39 | IriX64 | sending |
| 21:29.53 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 21:30.28 | MinuteElectron | It failed. |
| 21:30.28 | IriX64 | i have no idea :) |
| 21:30.35 | IriX64 | drat |
| 21:30.51 | IriX64 | doh, im behind a wall :) |
| 21:31.03 | MinuteElectron | bah, one sec |
| 21:31.12 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: You have an SCP client? |
| 21:31.20 | MinuteElectron | *SFTP |
| 21:33.51 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: PM --> |
| 21:45.03 | IriX64 | alas no |
| 21:45.10 | IriX64 | i can mail it to yoy |
| 21:45.13 | IriX64 | you |
| 21:57.02 | IriX64 | finally a chance to do a make benchmark :) |
| 22:02.51 | MinuteElectron | afk |
| 22:03.22 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:03.44 | IriX64 | prefer ask |
| 22:03.46 | IriX64 | ? |
| 22:03.53 | IriX64 | a sad kind :) |
| 22:05.32 | MinuteElectron | back |
| 22:09.08 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/AEStPI53.html <--- benchmark on an opteron |
| 22:27.01 | IriX64 | thats an optimized build with compiler optimization enabled too |
| 22:28.56 | dtidrow | hmmmm |
| 22:29.02 | dtidrow | brlcad: you still around? |
| 22:31.17 | IriX64 | he answers "frayed knot" :P |
| 22:33.11 | IriX64 | minuteelectron, have you considered the stryker jpg for background on that page? |
| 22:33.21 | MinuteElectron | what is that? |
| 22:33.46 | IriX64 | look in screen shots and images on http://brlcad.org |
| 22:34.33 | IriX64 | it's my current wallpaper |
| 22:34.44 | MinuteElectron | hmm, I personally I don't think background images work very well - I can try but don't hope for much. |
| 22:34.57 | IriX64 | your choice :) |
| 22:34.58 | MinuteElectron | Also I would need it in a much highe resolution. |
| 22:35.12 | IriX64 | ill e-mail you one |
| 22:35.13 | MinuteElectron | and also it would much up depending on your resolution. |
| 22:35.18 | IriX64 | if you'll permit |
| 22:35.23 | SuperTaz | ermmm |
| 22:35.24 | MinuteElectron | yeah, ok |
| 22:35.31 | SuperTaz | background images are bad, mmkay? |
| 22:35.44 | MinuteElectron | background images are best if the are a simple repeating pattern. |
| 22:35.50 | SuperTaz | NO! |
| 22:35.59 | SuperTaz | background images are bad |
| 22:36.08 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 22:36.16 | SuperTaz | the ONLY case where they're marginally okay |
| 22:36.32 | SuperTaz | is when they're a watermark |
| 22:37.22 | SuperTaz | i.e. they're in a static spot on the page and don't repeat |
| 22:37.25 | SuperTaz | and are faint |
| 22:37.31 | IriX64 | sent |
| 22:37.35 | SuperTaz | and even that isn't reliable cross-browser |
| 22:37.38 | MinuteElectron | recieved |
| 22:37.43 | IriX64 | sorry i don't do pages well |
| 22:37.52 | SuperTaz | it's okay |
| 22:38.02 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 22:38.04 | SuperTaz | it's really a question of several elements |
| 22:38.18 | SuperTaz | good design must have the following elements: |
| 22:38.29 | SuperTaz | 1) it should be easy to use |
| 22:38.43 | SuperTaz | 2) it should incorporate natural usage paradigms |
| 22:38.52 | SuperTaz | 3) it should be aesthetically pleasing |
| 22:39.04 | SuperTaz | 4) it should make the users feel good |
| 22:39.09 | SuperTaz | that's a good design |
| 22:39.22 | SuperTaz | well |
| 22:39.27 | IriX64 | woot ogl came up :) |
| 22:39.42 | SuperTaz | 1.5) it should do what the users need it to do |
| 22:40.08 | MinuteElectron | Does BRL-CAD compile and run on Windows? |
| 22:40.32 | IriX64 | depends who you talk too ;) |
| 22:40.52 | MinuteElectron | Oh o.O |
| 22:41.37 | MinuteElectron | how do you mean? |
| 22:42.24 | SuperTaz | I think he means "not reliably" |
| 22:42.43 | IriX64 | don't put lies in my mouth please :) |
| 22:42.46 | SuperTaz | I suspect you could probably get it to work with cygwin and XFree86 |
| 22:42.49 | MinuteElectron | Oh, ok. |
| 22:43.04 | IriX64 | how about X11R6 |
| 22:43.07 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:43.07 | SuperTaz | but i haven't tried |
| 22:43.15 | AchiestDragon | well i can understand the 1 and 2 bit |
| 22:43.35 | SuperTaz | XFree86 IS X11R6 |
| 22:43.56 | IriX64 | adsl you have to remnt :) |
| 22:43.59 | SuperTaz | it's a specific distribution and port of X11R6 |
| 22:44.02 | IriX64 | rent too :) |
| 22:44.09 | MinuteElectron | dsl = damn small linux |
| 22:44.22 | IriX64 | pfu=pretty fine unix |
| 22:44.33 | MinuteElectron | it would appear not |
| 22:44.39 | AchiestDragon | think the best example i can think of is blender , it takes a while to learn how to use the gui , against well the 3d editor in autotrax that you can pickup on in minuts |
| 22:45.13 | MinuteElectron | How many GBs is BRL-CAD uncompiled? |
| 22:45.38 | IriX64 | whos brlcad? |
| 22:45.42 | AchiestDragon | 28Gb on the source download but that compressed |
| 22:45.51 | MinuteElectron | wtf? |
| 22:45.52 | AchiestDragon | mb not gb |
| 22:45.54 | dtidrow | MB, you mean |
| 22:45.55 | MinuteElectron | Holy crap. |
| 22:46.05 | MinuteElectron | oh 28MB |
| 22:46.08 | MinuteElectron | that is not much |
| 22:46.19 | MinuteElectron | I was expecting something like 5GBs. |
| 22:46.23 | IriX64 | it is when you're waiting for the transfer |
| 22:46.38 | IriX64 | use cvs much better |
| 22:46.40 | dtidrow | and about 176MB unpacked |
| 22:46.49 | AchiestDragon | depends how you look at it , i remeber working on systems when 4k was alot of ram |
| 22:46.50 | MinuteElectron | hmm, cool |
| 22:47.18 | IriX64 | my s-100 had a whopping 64K |
| 22:47.58 | AchiestDragon | my nascom1 had 1k and the pdp8 i had had 4k |
| 22:48.24 | IriX64 | how much did the sinclair have? |
| 22:48.25 | SuperTaz | I remember when your program had to fit in 4k... |
| 22:48.43 | IriX64 | brlcad wouldn't do well there :) |
| 22:48.44 | SuperTaz | ...and just how much people could do with 4k back then. |
| 22:48.53 | AchiestDragon | 1k on the zx80 and zx81 the spectrum had 16 or 48k |
| 22:48.59 | IriX64 | then microsoft came along :P |
| 22:49.17 | dtidrow | and massively fscked everything up.... |
| 22:49.44 | IriX64 | look at it this way you get much more bytes for your money now :P |
| 22:50.24 | AchiestDragon | i tend to do programming in asm and i used a lot of microcontrolers with 1 to 8k of ram doing quite a lot for the ram size , if i programed the same in c i would be looking at needing a chip with more than 4 times the ram |
| 22:51.11 | IriX64 | not if you have a good optimizing compiler |
| 22:51.23 | IriX64 | and you can do asm in c |
| 22:52.24 | IriX64 | ahh optimize for size instead of speed :) |
| 22:52.40 | SuperTaz | you can make scrambled eggs in a blender |
| 22:52.52 | SuperTaz | does that mean it's a good idea/ |
| 22:52.52 | SuperTaz | ? |
| 22:53.03 | IriX64 | it's all experience |
| 22:53.16 | AchiestDragon | yes but some code even optimized is not as quick as if you wrote the same task in native asm |
| 22:53.18 | SuperTaz | if you're trying to work in 1-4k, C is probably not the language you REALLY want |
| 22:53.43 | IriX64 | i know i'm just yanking your chain and it's working :) |
| 22:54.01 | SuperTaz | with microcontrollers, you often want ASM, or architecture-specific development tools |
| 22:54.27 | IriX64 | see above, back to testing this thing :) |
| 22:54.35 | AchiestDragon | like r=a+b then call function if r=1 usualy leads to some complex c maths lib call rather than a add forlowed by a call on condition |
| 22:55.56 | MinuteElectron | lol, my code had no validity errors whatsoever (except 5 irrelevant css warnings) - I am amazed. |
| 22:56.32 | AchiestDragon | most of the asm tools are avalabe free for most micros , the c compilers though are usualy 3rd party but gcc will do most |
| 22:56.41 | MinuteElectron | Oh dear, goodnight. |
| 23:02.18 | AchiestDragon | it was not so mutch having limited ram space that was a problem but the total lack of having any sutable storage for swap space , using papertape as swap space just does not work |
| 23:03.03 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/vG1mWq75.html <--- if i can't show you the pretty pictures at least I can show you this much :) |
| 23:03.46 | IriX64 | does if you feed the output of the punch to the input of the reader :) |
| 23:04.53 | AchiestDragon | well not realy , that way ends up with a fifo ,, |
| 23:05.09 | IriX64 | heh just speculating |
| 23:05.26 | IriX64 | works quite well for testing a model 28 |
| 23:05.34 | IriX64 | or 35 and up |
| 23:05.53 | AchiestDragon | and you end up with miles of used papertape |
| 23:06.22 | IriX64 | sometimes necessary and they didn't recycle back then either, mores the pity |
| 23:06.58 | IriX64 | sometimes intermittent clutches were hard to find |
| 23:07.20 | IriX64 | break time |
| 23:09.03 | AchiestDragon | at one time the souce would come on papertape with brlcad having 176mb in the source that would take 120,000 miles of papertape for the pdp8 i had |
| 23:09.16 | dtidrow | heh |
| 23:12.37 | AchiestDragon | and take 54 days to read in on a asr33 teletype |
| 23:13.20 | AchiestDragon | Timeout on server |
| 23:13.21 | AchiestDragon | Connection was to 82.7.33.28 at port 80 |
| 23:13.21 | SuperTaz | I think he took it down when he went offline |
| 23:15.41 | brlcad | yeah, figured.. thanks |
| 23:28.38 | IriX64 | I can't get there either |
| 23:30.48 | IriX64 | hah a 1024 frame buffer |
| 23:30.53 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:32.47 | IriX64 | and bonus it works, cyall l8r |
| 00:11.30 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 00:12.31 | thing0 | hey all |
| 00:32.20 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:55.26 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/lsyiB710.html <---- a useless snippet of how my compile is going :) |
| 01:01.02 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/noX0mO67.html <--- something i'll have to fix, you should too |
| 01:02.03 | IriX64 | there are 5 more in qray.c too, interested? |
| 01:02.14 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 01:02.40 | IriX64 | and vdraw.c |
| 01:04.29 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/cc4gGp46.html <--- these |
| 01:05.57 | thing1 | bacl |
| 01:05.59 | thing1 | *back |
| 01:16.56 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 01:26.18 | IriX64 | is Cygwin a viable platform to run brlcad on :P |
| 01:26.54 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 01:28.34 | IriX64 | if your browser allows it take a peek at http://irix32.spaces.live.com (2 albumns there) |
| 01:42.24 | AchiestDragon | no problems uing konquror to access that site |
| 01:47.45 | AchiestDragon | but firefox definatly does not like it |
| 01:48.57 | AchiestDragon | msn messing arround with xml so firefox fails i bet |
| 01:52.58 | AchiestDragon | http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Firix32.spaces.live.com%2F |
| 01:56.54 | *** join/#brlcad cad80 (n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 01:57.21 | AchiestDragon | and by the errors it looks that way eather that or msn canot write web pages ,, actualy looks a bit like starting a perl script with the first line in it beeing !python |
| 01:57.43 | *** join/#brlcad cad17 (n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 02:03.14 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 02:03.16 | IriX64 | no idea whats up take it up with microsoft it's their script :) |
| 02:03.30 | IriX64 | neat the way it works tho |
| 02:03.37 | IriX64 | to update i mean |
| 02:04.31 | IriX64 | opera loads it fine (they missed a couple :P) |
| 02:05.06 | IriX64 | windows firefox also loads it go figure |
| 02:05.20 | AchiestDragon | well i find i dont have problems with konquror 99% of the time where with firefox its 75% of the time , i dont use ie unless nothing else works |
| 02:05.43 | IriX64 | i use first one that works :) |
| 02:06.13 | IriX64 | anybody got an old copy of netscape? |
| 02:06.20 | AchiestDragon | i use konquror as my default browser and prefer it |
| 02:06.44 | IriX64 | I don't browse much anyway |
| 02:07.38 | AchiestDragon | what version of netscape , and what os , think i have a few versions of it arround someware |
| 02:07.59 | IriX64 | dos netscapev1.0a |
| 02:08.05 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:08.11 | AchiestDragon | :) |
| 02:08.34 | IriX64 | i actually do have trumpet around here somewhere |
| 02:09.03 | AchiestDragon | dont have that , have a beta of the first linux version of it on a disk someware though |
| 02:09.37 | IriX64 | someware i like it i'll call anything i develop someware from someware labs :) |
| 02:11.10 | AchiestDragon | since moving i have managed to misplace a large portion of my old cd's still have to get them sorted out , probablay still at the ex's |
| 02:11.57 | IriX64 | i've gotta play cable swap one day and install my 5.25" drive and recover a lot of stuff and burn it to cd |
| 02:12.17 | IriX64 | silly asus left the b drive out of their bios |
| 02:12.33 | thing1 | hehe |
| 02:12.58 | IriX64 | the a drive supports 5.25 tho kudos to them |
| 02:13.52 | thing1 | :) |
| 02:14.01 | IriX64 | I know microsoft didn't take out 5.25 support, if they did i'll put it back ;) |
| 02:14.13 | thing1 | hehe |
| 02:14.19 | AchiestDragon | i only have 2 machines with a 3.5" floppy left in them , but not used a flopy in the last 2 years |
| 02:14.50 | IriX64 | still uses for them i.e sneakernet when bringing a new system up |
| 02:15.10 | AchiestDragon | and mostly now its transfering cd data to dvd's |
| 02:15.35 | AchiestDragon | ho for optical cube drives |
| 02:15.40 | IriX64 | thats something I don't have yet (read children get it first) |
| 02:17.14 | AchiestDragon | well for the cost when i put a system together may as well put a dvdr in it rather than a cdr theres verry little cost diference now |
| 02:17.49 | AchiestDragon | and for backup well 4Gb beats 700mb per disk |
| 02:17.49 | IriX64 | true but i wish dvd's could read cd's |
| 02:17.58 | IriX64 | yes |
| 02:18.39 | AchiestDragon | the dvdw drives do cd, cdr , cdrw ,dvd , dvdr and dvdrw |
| 02:19.00 | IriX64 | how pricey? |
| 02:19.04 | AchiestDragon | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:19.37 | AchiestDragon | like £30 for a good one and as low as £18 for a cheap one |
| 02:19.55 | AchiestDragon | a cdrw is about £10 to £20 |
| 02:19.57 | *** part/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 02:20.05 | AchiestDragon | GBP |
| 02:20.21 | IriX64 | mult by 2 for here then? |
| 02:22.04 | AchiestDragon | http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=571850 |
| 02:22.56 | AchiestDragon | that place nolonger sells cd only drives |
| 02:26.05 | IriX64 | how do they handle shipping to the "colonies" :) |
| 02:26.26 | IriX64 | i'm a little slow to cut and paste unix style |
| 02:26.55 | IriX64 | suppose i could just read this page :) |
| 02:27.53 | IriX64 | they sure have a selection |
| 02:28.46 | IriX64 | ahh well one day I too will have a dvdrw |
| 02:30.02 | AchiestDragon | if you make a sails support queary they should be able to give you info about postage , i know ther will be no vat to pay on exports but you may have inport tax |
| 02:30.25 | IriX64 | and maybe duty? |
| 02:31.17 | AchiestDragon | inport tax / duty yes , depends on your local rouls on that |
| 02:31.52 | IriX64 | I'll try local first but thanks for the site |
| 02:32.46 | AchiestDragon | the stink we get here when inporting goods is the carriers chage a £40 fixed rate for processing inport tax , even if theres only £10 of tax |
| 02:33.01 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 02:33.06 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 02:33.53 | IriX64 | same you have to go through a imort agent here depending where it's from |
| 02:34.01 | IriX64 | err import |
| 02:34.02 | AchiestDragon | so £100 about $200usd product including shipping gets to be £157 that makes it more like $300usd |
| 02:34.18 | IriX64 | i see |
| 02:35.27 | AchiestDragon | it only starts to work out better when you oder goods of over £1000 that sort of hides the £40 charge |
| 02:36.01 | IriX64 | mmmm i still would have a heart attack :) |
| 02:39.02 | IriX64 | I *do so like my stryker wallpaper, thankyou aberdeen :) |
| 02:39.56 | IriX64 | theres a shot of my desktop with that wallpaper on the Irix32 site brlcad albumn i think |
| 02:40.53 | AchiestDragon | try http://www.achiestdragon.org4/index.php?title=Image:Splat.jpg&oldid=128 |
| 02:41.19 | IriX64 | IriX32 is only half of me, IriX64 is the whole of me, just like 42 is only half the answer the whole answer is 84 |
| 02:41.37 | AchiestDragon | it gives a nice optical illusion as you move eather towards or away from the screen |
| 02:43.55 | AchiestDragon | i did that with the gimp and kriter |
| 02:46.12 | IriX64 | the page cannot be displayed :( |
| 02:46.36 | AchiestDragon | try http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Splat.jpg&oldid=128 opps link wrong |
| 02:48.00 | IriX64 | what is that? what is that? (I call it the colorfull vortex of the mind :)) |
| 02:48.49 | AchiestDragon | yes , it was and attempt to get an image that looked something like the stress pattens when you press on a lcd screen |
| 02:50.06 | AchiestDragon | i only did it at 1600*1200 though |
| 02:56.58 | IriX64 | you did a good job are you an artist? |
| 02:57.08 | AchiestDragon | i call it splat i was just experimenting with the effect filters |
| 02:57.22 | IriX64 | with gimp? |
| 02:57.40 | AchiestDragon | i do some art when im in the mood but not as a main pastime |
| 02:58.06 | AchiestDragon | the gimp its the gnome art program , and kritter is the kde one |
| 02:58.41 | AchiestDragon | i was doing some beta testing on kritter when i did that one |
| 02:59.13 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/hkEbpg81.html <--- here's what i just built :) |
| 03:00.07 | IriX64 | hah and it actully works |
| 03:00.23 | AchiestDragon | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:00.47 | IriX64 | just a sec trying this thing out |
| 03:00.55 | AchiestDragon | k |
| 03:02.27 | IriX64 | what do you mean i can upload it? :) |
| 03:03.16 | IriX64 | lets wreak some havoc :P |
| 03:04.44 | IriX64 | tiniest frame buffer i ever saw chortle |
| 03:05.14 | IriX64 | haha it actually fit it in there |
| 03:05.37 | IriX64 | would you like me to e-mail you the picture? |
| 03:06.29 | AchiestDragon | me ? |
| 03:06.42 | IriX64 | wait i'll put it on irix32 |
| 03:08.19 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667976.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:08.44 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the brlcad pix 1st pix is this new build |
| 03:13.02 | IriX64 | would anybody mind if i switch to mirc it's so much easier to just double click a url than this cut and paste stuff? |
| 03:13.32 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:14.09 | louipc | IriX64: what were you using before? |
| 03:14.54 | IriX64 | irssi |
| 03:15.06 | louipc | nice |
| 03:15.17 | IriX64 | very just not used to it |
| 03:16.42 | IriX64 | back to playing with brlcad (I'll learn how to use it eventually, the concept of drawing with algebra is foreign to me) |
| 03:21.30 | IriX64 | ive got that irssi package for windows on my ftp server, now if only sympatico would get their act in gear and enable anonymous logins :) |
| 03:26.16 | IriX64 | windowsirssi.zip i wonder if anybody would actually want it, oh well it's there |
| 03:29.45 | louipc | maybe linux users that have to use windows at work or something |
| 03:30.18 | louipc | what does sympatico have to do with anon logins? |
| 03:30.33 | louipc | oh they're hosting the server huh? |
| 03:30.58 | IriX64 | they let me have a spot :) |
| 03:31.36 | IriX64 | try the irix32 site, brlcad albumn proving to myself rot 45 45 45 still works |
| 03:32.37 | louipc | I can't view that page. it uses non-standard XML and my browser is very picky about it |
| 03:32.57 | IriX64 | where can i upload or e-mail to you? |
| 03:33.49 | IriX64 | break time |
| 03:38.56 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613910.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:47.51 | IriX64 | should scare you and login with opera :P |
| 03:49.08 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon may I upload something to that link? |
| 03:49.56 | AchiestDragon | on http://www.achiestdragon.org ? |
| 03:50.07 | IriX64 | no the plant link |
| 03:50.35 | IriX64 | No file by this name exists, you can upload it. |
| 03:50.46 | IriX64 | from your url |
| 03:52.34 | IriX64 | does it have to be a picture i could let you have windowsirssi.zip. |
| 03:53.09 | AchiestDragon | its a wiki its part of the my site www.achiestdragon.org if you go to upload file then yes but you need to be loged in to do that |
| 03:53.21 | AchiestDragon | its set for zip and pdf files also |
| 03:53.32 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669395.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:53.39 | IriX64 | do you want/need irssi.zip? |
| 03:54.11 | AchiestDragon | not realy |
| 03:54.59 | IriX64 | something tells me i stepped in it, sorry. |
| 03:55.14 | AchiestDragon | np |
| 03:55.37 | IriX64 | must I call you Mr./Mam :P |
| 03:56.15 | AchiestDragon | did the plant pic show ok ? |
| 03:56.28 | IriX64 | really there was no pic |
| 03:56.30 | louipc | something is really messed up I keep on timing out |
| 03:57.33 | AchiestDragon | http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Plant.jpg&oldid=125 |
| 03:58.02 | AchiestDragon | it shows here and its a local connecton to the server here , refreshes ok |
| 03:58.09 | IriX64 | louipc try an alternate server |
| 03:58.23 | IriX64 | nice and i like the crocodile |
| 03:58.39 | IriX64 | is that a collar round it's neck |
| 03:59.46 | AchiestDragon | best viewed at 100% zoom on the original theres a lot of stuff in the details like the plant roots |
| 04:00.36 | IriX64 | i see a lot of things, baby crocs for example :) |
| 04:03.02 | IriX64 | pleasure by the way |
| 04:03.15 | AchiestDragon | i did quite a few pics trying stuff out , but the mouse is not the best input device for it , im more used to doing pencil schetches , realy need a good graphics tablet but at over £400 for a hafl decent one its a bit mutch to concidder for someting that only gets occasional use |
| 04:04.05 | IriX64 | true consider a light pen device though |
| 04:05.00 | AchiestDragon | well i realy need one for cad applications also |
| 04:05.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nirt.c qray.c vdraw.c): NULL != 0, quell warnings |
| 04:05.38 | IriX64 | ahh i like the maestro in the clouds in the background complete with baton :) |
| 04:06.21 | IriX64 | how long did that take you? |
| 04:06.35 | IriX64 | to draw i mean |
| 04:07.08 | AchiestDragon | that took 2 days and did about 12hrs a day |
| 04:07.24 | IriX64 | ouch long hours but looks worth the effort |
| 04:07.57 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544066.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:08.36 | IriX64 | whoop +2 (chortle) |
| 04:09.20 | AchiestDragon | well when i split with the ex i was back at my parents for a while , so had lots of time and not mutch that i could fill it with |
| 04:10.06 | IriX64 | you talent shows man . |
| 04:10.18 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: interesting image .. |
| 04:12.23 | brlcad | IriX64: thanks for pointing out the warnings |
| 04:12.35 | brlcad | though... you could have probably fixed those and provided a patch ;) |
| 04:12.35 | IriX64 | nice wiggler, caught much with it ? |
| 04:12.49 | AchiestDragon | lol |
| 04:12.49 | brlcad | no, it was harmless, but might as well clean it up |
| 04:12.57 | AchiestDragon | its for jtag programming |
| 04:13.05 | AchiestDragon | and debug |
| 04:13.14 | brlcad | s/debug/background/ |
| 04:13.27 | AchiestDragon | ty |
| 04:13.32 | IriX64 | its your freakin picture :) |
| 04:18.07 | IriX64 | brlcad: i can't sew ergo no patches from me :) |
| 04:19.21 | brlcad | you could make a patch if you wanted |
| 04:19.27 | brlcad | cvs will do it for you |
| 04:20.06 | brlcad | you edit a file from a cvs checkout, then run "cvs diff -u filename.c > filename.patch" |
| 04:20.12 | IriX64 | don't know cvs that well, but i must admit i'm curious as to how thats done |
| 04:20.16 | brlcad | that will create a patch file named filename.patch |
| 04:20.34 | IriX64 | interesting |
| 04:20.36 | brlcad | give it a try, edit some random file, run cvs diff -u |
| 04:20.56 | brlcad | a patch is just a simple text file saying what it was before and after |
| 04:20.57 | IriX64 | have to be logged in first right |
| 04:21.09 | IriX64 | in proper dir |
| 04:21.38 | IriX64 | i don't play with cvs much just update and go |
| 04:24.54 | AchiestDragon | 6am time for a nap , nn |
| 04:26.16 | brlcad | IriX64: you only log in once |
| 04:26.20 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: cya! |
| 04:27.04 | brlcad | SuperTaz: good comments on the website.. :) |
| 04:35.56 | IriX64 | tried to do midnight commander for windows, failed miserably, it's too entrenched in the unix file hierarchy |
| 04:36.08 | IriX64 | sp |
| 04:38.05 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/hjPt7o36.html <--- this tho is doable, I don't have the support files yet though |
| 04:41.26 | IriX64 | should do a dump specs . |
| 04:44.55 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754550.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:45.17 | IriX64 | retrieving my patches :P |
| 04:58.19 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754183.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:08.52 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614201.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:26.29 | IriX64 | any pictures done by brl-cad of the space station? I'd love to have that for wallpaper |
| 05:27.09 | brlcad | IriX64: not that I'm aware of |
| 05:27.51 | brlcad | the only space model I'm aware of actually is the one of the hubble space telescope |
| 05:28.13 | IriX64 | guess i'll have to visit nasa or jet propulsion labs again :) |
| 05:28.35 | IriX64 | I saw the hubble and have it i prefer the station |
| 05:31.44 | IriX64 | suppose i could read the docs but it's easier to ask someone who knows, I've never run the test suite, just what does it do (remembering that the fastest way to get something acomplished is to give it to a lazy slob to do) :) |
| 05:41.41 | brlcad | it runs a bunch of integration tests |
| 05:41.57 | brlcad | makes sure some of the basic tools work as expected |
| 05:42.07 | brlcad | it's not a big deal to run it, give it a got |
| 05:42.10 | brlcad | s/got/go/ |
| 05:54.05 | IriX64 | I will soons it finishes building again |
| 06:27.33 | IriX64 | asc2g running must be almost done |
| 06:29.16 | IriX64 | it's installing roughly how long should make test take? |
| 06:29.37 | brlcad | only takes a couple minutes |
| 06:29.46 | IriX64 | ok |
| 06:29.52 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: my configure line earlier today was: ./configure --enable-optimized CFLAGS=-falign-loops=16 -falign-jumps=16 -falign-functions=16 -falign-jumps-max-skip=15 -falign-loops-max-skip=15 -malign-natural -ffast-math -fr |
| 06:29.56 | brlcad | eorder-blocks -freorder-blocks-and-partition -mtune=pentium4 |
| 06:30.04 | brlcad | of course, quoting the CFLAGS var |
| 06:30.52 | IriX64 | heh all i use is --enable-optimize --enable-optimizations |
| 06:31.12 | brlcad | those two do the same thing |
| 06:31.19 | IriX64 | compiler uses -msse and -msse2 |
| 06:31.39 | brlcad | it autodetects and uses it if it works |
| 06:31.44 | IriX64 | yes |
| 06:32.09 | brlcad | only matters in the new nurbs/brep code |
| 06:32.41 | IriX64 | i've never compared numbers before, was just curious what make benchmark did :) |
| 06:45.39 | IriX64 | oh man quarter of three |
| 06:49.13 | IriX64 | well i typed it |
| 06:50.06 | IriX64 | heh interesting |
| 06:51.54 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/yyS2PR59.html <---- there you go |
| 06:52.34 | IriX64 | bedtime nite |
| 06:57.25 | brlcad | again, "success" pastings aren't useful .. i know *exactly* what it looks like as I see it over and over and over and .... |
| 06:57.37 | brlcad | but I'm glad you got it working, and succeeded |
| 07:23.41 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 07:28.14 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Didin't catch you yesterday fully, since you have got the final decision: What do you think of the website I made, does it need improving and what shall I do now? http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 07:31.31 | MinuteElectron | I really don't mind if you think it is complete crap, it will help me refine my ideas. |
| 07:36.00 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 07:37.30 | thing0 | hey |
| 07:48.18 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 07:57.36 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
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| 08:22.35 | *** part/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 08:28.12 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I really like it, but think it does still need more too |
| 08:28.29 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, could you give me an idea as to what? |
| 08:28.54 | brlcad | i came back several hours ago looking forward to seeing the site.. I suppose you're running the web server off of a desktop/laptop that you shut off? :) |
| 08:29.20 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, sorry about that - it is currently running on this machine. |
| 08:29.29 | MinuteElectron | I shut it down for the night. |
| 08:29.42 | brlcad | figured as much :) |
| 08:31.23 | MinuteElectron | So, any ideas? |
| 08:35.21 | brlcad | yeah, I think the layout is what I'm having trouble with at the moment .. it's a blend of two or three styles, and the mix is making it quirky |
| 08:35.36 | brlcad | tell me which of these did you really like best? |
| 08:35.43 | brlcad | http://meta.theme.drupaler.net/about |
| 08:35.53 | brlcad | http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.giannimania.it/zengarden/sample.css |
| 08:36.17 | brlcad | http://haiku-os.org/ |
| 08:36.45 | brlcad | that's it, of those |
| 08:37.31 | brlcad | not the graphics or colors per-se, but the layout and structural elements |
| 08:38.15 | MinuteElectron | I think the first one. |
| 08:38.58 | brlcad | that one is also nearly identical (structurally) to haiku's |
| 08:39.30 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 08:39.37 | brlcad | they both have a "top title area" with an embedded menu |
| 08:40.02 | MinuteElectron | hmm, let me try something. |
| 08:40.07 | brlcad | separate panels and navigation areas |
| 08:42.33 | MinuteElectron | Can you give me the link to that page of logos again please. |
| 08:42.45 | brlcad | I can work up the artwork for that title area if you want, that might help |
| 08:43.00 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 08:43.02 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/websites.html |
| 08:43.27 | MinuteElectron | I meant the actual logos. |
| 08:43.36 | MinuteElectron | I only have the 256x212 one |
| 08:43.38 | brlcad | ooh, the logo dir |
| 08:43.42 | brlcad | sure |
| 08:44.01 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 08:44.05 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 08:45.03 | MinuteElectron | So you are going to make artwork? |
| 08:45.19 | brlcad | sure I can do that |
| 08:45.27 | MinuteElectron | what will it look like? |
| 08:45.40 | brlcad | you tell me |
| 08:46.05 | brlcad | using http://meta.theme.drupaler.net/about and http://haiku-os.org/ as example drivers -- their main difference is tone |
| 08:47.07 | brlcad | bold/strong vs subtle/soft |
| 08:47.14 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 08:47.52 | brlcad | I can make artwork for either, but the design is in your hands as to what you need |
| 08:48.08 | MinuteElectron | haiku is probably the best IMO |
| 08:48.37 | brlcad | they use drupal too, btw |
| 08:48.43 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 08:49.01 | MinuteElectron | you could make it use the logo on the far right, with BLR-CAD beside it, and underneath BRL-CAD put the tagline |
| 08:49.05 | brlcad | though they've almost entirely hidden that fact on the website |
| 08:49.24 | MinuteElectron | hehe |
| 08:49.59 | brlcad | their image screenshots are actually a perfect integration of Gallery (e.g. http://haiku-os.org/about/faq) |
| 08:52.47 | brlcad | so for the top area, titlebar running across the top .. |
| 08:53.12 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 08:53.41 | MinuteElectron | it should probably be sandwhiched against the top, left and right of the page (no whitespace). |
| 08:53.50 | brlcad | did you want it to be wrapped like meta or take up the entire area like haiku |
| 08:53.59 | brlcad | okay |
| 08:54.18 | MinuteElectron | hehe |
| 08:55.01 | brlcad | which quadrant for the menu, which for the title? |
| 08:55.50 | brlcad | meta used top left and bottom left respectively, for example - haiku uses bottom right and center left |
| 08:57.16 | MinuteElectron | I guess title would be top left, the navigation could be either bottom right or bottom left. if the navigation was botom right then the title would then have to be middle left |
| 08:57.30 | MinuteElectron | but that would probably look to much like haiku |
| 08:58.02 | brlcad | don't worry about looking like them, more important to be effective |
| 08:58.35 | MinuteElectron | ok, then center left and bottom right, alternatively top left and bottom left. |
| 08:59.01 | MinuteElectron | if you are doing bottom right then the image has to be somehow adaptable so it looks ok in all resolutions (like the one on haiku) |
| 08:59.59 | brlcad | okay, last detail is whether content area is going to be dark on light or light on dark |
| 09:00.36 | brlcad | as it affects title area color selection |
| 09:00.43 | MinuteElectron | I think light on dark since (from what I have seen of the screenshots) BRL-CAD appears to use darker colors. |
| 09:01.36 | brlcad | that alone will make it look drastically different than haiku's, so more reason to not worry about it being structurally similar :) |
| 09:01.46 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 09:02.25 | brlcad | that's also "kind of" the approach taken on http://blender.org too |
| 09:08.49 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: You are incorporating the navigation into your artwork right? |
| 09:09.05 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 09:09.50 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: as a mock-up layer |
| 09:09.56 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 09:10.03 | brlcad | how that translates to css will probably be pretty different |
| 09:24.30 | brlcad | alrighty, this is going to take me a while and I need to rest my hands and eyes a bit before I get too deep :) |
| 09:24.42 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 09:24.46 | brlcad | should have something later today hopefully |
| 09:25.27 | MinuteElectron | cool, can i just ask quickly, where is the visual studio project in cvs/ |
| 09:25.56 | brlcad | for your layout, I'll probably have four elements so you can prepare the css -- the title itself, the left background, the right background, and the menu area |
| 09:26.05 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: it's in misc/ |
| 09:26.08 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 09:26.17 | brlcad | there are actually two |
| 09:26.41 | brlcad | a vc6 project that does a splendid job of building the libraries |
| 09:27.13 | brlcad | and a vc7 project that doesn't do as well, but does build about 30 of the binaries one generally needs/wants/expects |
| 09:27.23 | brlcad | including the modeller |
| 09:27.23 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 09:27.26 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 09:27.28 | MinuteElectron | the left and right backgrounds are for just the navigation right? |
| 09:27.34 | brlcad | so unless you're writing code, you'll probably want the vc7 |
| 09:27.48 | brlcad | left and right backgrounds are so you can make it expanding |
| 09:28.15 | MinuteElectron | yeah, but just for the nav right? |
| 09:28.31 | MinuteElectron | *header |
| 09:28.33 | brlcad | right |
| 09:28.37 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 09:29.51 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: will the menu area be left or right aligned? |
| 09:30.04 | brlcad | thanks again for working on this, it's going to be awesome |
| 09:30.11 | brlcad | you'd said bottom left |
| 09:30.16 | MinuteElectron | ok, :D |
| 09:32.00 | brlcad | mm.. I need a godel escher bach style cube for C, A, D .. that'd make a great download icon |
| 09:32.42 | MinuteElectron | are you incorporating the tagline into the header? |
| 09:33.18 | brlcad | have to see, there's another tagline that is often used too |
| 09:33.33 | MinuteElectron | ok, but will one be incorporated at least? |
| 09:33.44 | brlcad | yeah, something |
| 09:33.50 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 09:33.51 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 09:38.10 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I presume that a sidebar will still be needed. |
| 09:39.25 | brlcad | yeah, probably just have different content |
| 09:39.33 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 09:44.48 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: There is the issue of tabs, they can either go in a similar place that I put them before (near the page title) or somewhere else (perhaps in the sidebar). |
| 09:53.13 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Do you have any idea when I will be able to upload Drupal and MediaWiki onto the server you have? At this point it would be quite useful as settings now have to be set in Drupal so it would be useful to not have to set them twice. |
| 10:16.31 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 11:13.33 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 11:13.54 | thing0 | hey |
| 11:20.55 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543366.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 11:36.04 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@124-168-88-122.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
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| 12:18.43 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
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| 13:05.42 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: got a spare moment? |
| 13:46.55 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 15:48.56 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 16:40.00 | dtidrow | anybody awake? |
| 16:40.24 | poolio | maybe :P |
| 16:40.29 | dtidrow | heh |
| 16:40.51 | dtidrow | any idea what the '.hidden' means in this line? |
| 16:41.00 | dtidrow | 00040f40 l F .text 0000004c .hidden TkStatePrintProc |
| 16:41.14 | poolio | ah asm |
| 16:41.33 | dtidrow | no, that's from an objdump output |
| 16:42.54 | dtidrow | ../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `TkStatePrintProc' - that's an error I'm getting in a brlcad build, even though the function seems to exist in libtk8.5 |
| 16:43.29 | dtidrow | so I'm guessing that '.hidden' is keeping the linker from seeing it |
| 16:44.02 | brlcad | hrm, possibly means it was declared static? |
| 16:44.16 | dtidrow | not from what I see in the .c file |
| 16:44.35 | dtidrow | unless there's something in one of the header files it uses |
| 16:45.00 | dtidrow | char * |
| 16:45.01 | dtidrow | TkStatePrintProc( |
| 16:45.01 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.01 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.01 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.01 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.03 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.05 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.07 | dtidrow | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:45.09 | dtidrow | { |
| 16:45.36 | brlcad | where's that from? |
| 16:45.55 | brlcad | tkCanvBezier or tk sources? |
| 16:46.08 | dtidrow | ./generic/tkInt.h:1146:MODULE_SCOPE char * TkStatePrintProc(ClientData clientData, - aha, that 'MODULE_SCOPE' must be doing it... |
| 16:46.13 | dtidrow | tk |
| 16:46.25 | dtidrow | generic/tkUtil.c |
| 16:46.31 | brlcad | what version are you on? tkCanvBezier is disabled on cvs head |
| 16:46.46 | dtidrow | hmmm |
| 16:46.55 | dtidrow | I dl'ed the latest tarball |
| 16:46.58 | brlcad | in the process of removing it |
| 16:47.00 | brlcad | ahh, okay |
| 16:47.18 | dtidrow | they're removing it? |
| 16:47.34 | brlcad | no, I"m in the process of removing it |
| 16:47.39 | brlcad | it's been a headache for years |
| 16:47.39 | dtidrow | heh |
| 16:48.26 | dtidrow | what version are you on? tkCanvBezier is disabled on cvs head - referring to brlcad or tk? |
| 16:48.29 | brlcad | john anderson implemented a bezier canvas for the 2D bezier line drawings in the sketch editor |
| 16:49.12 | brlcad | that tkCanvBezier was originally a direct enhancement to tk (meaning we had to ship a customized tk), but was later pulled out so that we could try to link against system tk libraries |
| 16:49.27 | brlcad | 7.10.1 is cvs head |
| 16:49.31 | dtidrow | ah |
| 16:50.22 | brlcad | even after tkCanvBezier was pulled out of Tk, though, it still needs Tk internals, private structures that you don't have access to from a system-installed Tk (i.e. that MODULE_SCOPE changes after installation) |
| 16:50.22 | dtidrow | I was experimenting with some additional optimizations yesterday, and kept stumbling over compile failures or other problems |
| 16:50.58 | dtidrow | well, I was building tk8.5 from tarballs, so that's not a problem to change |
| 16:51.08 | dtidrow | and tcl, for that matter |
| 16:51.30 | brlcad | that's actually the only thing holding up release -- to use a different bezier line drawing approach |
| 16:52.43 | dtidrow | I was also getting a problem in ifftc nevewr terminating during the build, chewing up all the available disk |
| 16:53.21 | dtidrow | just from experimenting with various optimization flags :-\ |
| 16:53.40 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:54.04 | brlcad | those can be *really* massive functions |
| 16:54.29 | dtidrow | several gig text files???? |
| 16:55.07 | brlcad | oh, running ifftc itself didn't terminate? |
| 16:55.27 | brlcad | or compiling the files it generates didn't |
| 16:55.44 | dtidrow | ifftc itself didn't terminate |
| 16:56.06 | dtidrow | ./configure --enable-optimized --with-opengl --with-cflags="-march=nocona -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double -mrtd -msseregparm" |
| 16:56.24 | dtidrow | think that's what caused it |
| 16:57.25 | dtidrow | -march=nocona could have been hosing things, I suppose |
| 16:58.11 | dtidrow | is there an -march=core yet? |
| 16:59.14 | brlcad | hm, I get cc1: error: invalid option 'sseregparm', if I remove that one, ifftc crashes with a bad instruction |
| 16:59.41 | brlcad | ah, -mrtd caused the bad instruction |
| 16:59.48 | dtidrow | ah |
| 17:00.18 | brlcad | hm, otherwise worked clean with CFLAGS="-march=nocona -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double" |
| 17:00.29 | dtidrow | was just experimenting with various options :-) |
| 17:00.33 | dtidrow | k, will try that |
| 17:00.56 | brlcad | libfft is a fun lib to play with since it generates the source files |
| 17:01.24 | brlcad | fourier transform kernels of various specified sizes |
| 17:01.46 | brlcad | having it go to 512 or *gasp* 1024 is really interesting to see how various compilers behave |
| 17:02.32 | dtidrow | thought it looked a little funky ;-) |
| 17:02.34 | brlcad | can seriously slow down a compile |
| 17:03.47 | brlcad | wc gives: 6255 32387 172439 irfft512.c |
| 17:03.48 | dtidrow | arg - my little one is getting into all kinds of trouble now |
| 17:11.39 | dtidrow | can't imagine what it would be like to build brlcad on an old 11/780.... |
| 17:12.08 | dtidrow | probably would take most of a week |
| 17:12.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: support convolution kernels up to 1024, but still only compile those up to 256 by default since optimization can be .. intense .. on the larger sizes |
| 17:13.47 | dtidrow | sweet - the latest version of gcc has -march=core2 |
| 17:21.08 | dtidrow | argh! |
| 17:21.26 | dtidrow | /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -march=pentium-m -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o ssampview ssampview-spectrum.o ssampview-ssampview.o ../../src/liboptical/liboptical.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm ../../src/libfb/libfb.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../sr |
| 17:21.26 | dtidrow | c/libpkg/libpkg.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lGL ../../src/librt/librt.la -lc -lm ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la ../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libbn/libbn.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lm ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lm -lc -lpthread |
| 17:21.31 | dtidrow | ../../src/libpkg/libpkg.la ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -lXss -lXext -lX11 -lX11 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm |
| 17:21.34 | dtidrow | /home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/libtk8.5.a(tkStubLib.o): In function `Tk_InitStubs': |
| 17:21.36 | dtidrow | /home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkStubLib.c:102: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 17:21.39 | dtidrow | /home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkStubLib.c:109: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr' |
| 17:21.42 | dtidrow | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 17:21.50 | dtidrow | oops, grabbed one too many lines |
| 17:22.59 | dtidrow | fook it, gonna unpack the tarball and try again |
| 17:25.12 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 17:25.42 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How's it going? |
| 17:59.54 | IriX64 | dtidrow: undefined reference to tclstubsptr? was a proper tclstubs library found at configure time? |
| 18:02.59 | dtidrow | I thought I told it to build the tcl/tk version that comes with brlcad... |
| 18:03.13 | IriX64 | should find it then |
| 18:03.32 | dtidrow | yes, it 'should'.... |
| 18:03.37 | IriX64 | i installed tcl/tk 8.5a6 , seems to work |
| 18:04.09 | dtidrow | with 7.10.0, or cvs HEAD? |
| 18:04.14 | IriX64 | cvs |
| 18:04.52 | dtidrow | ah - there are some fixes in there that aren't in 7.10.0, according to brlcad |
| 18:05.04 | IriX64 | explains it :) |
| 18:05.43 | dtidrow | I could have a leftover lib hiding somewhere from tcl/tk-8.5a6.... |
| 18:05.58 | IriX64 | reminds me, i should get the latest update |
| 18:05.59 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:07.00 | dtidrow | aha - it was apparently still pulling in /usr/local/lib/libtcl8.5.so |
| 18:07.28 | dtidrow | done :-) |
| 18:07.41 | IriX64 | heh good shooting :) |
| 18:08.09 | dtidrow | now to see if the extra optimization options helped at all... |
| 18:08.24 | IriX64 | what are you trying for, speed? |
| 18:09.28 | dtidrow | yeah, just as a test of the h/w |
| 18:09.34 | IriX64 | ah |
| 18:10.05 | IriX64 | i'll march this one as opteron then :) |
| 18:10.40 | dtidrow | gcc 4.2 has core2 as an march option now |
| 18:11.00 | IriX64 | i'll try it |
| 18:11.19 | IriX64 | maybe ill try core4 :P |
| 18:12.42 | dtidrow | gotta go, wife wants to do some shopping - bbl... |
| 18:12.48 | IriX64 | cya |
| 18:14.15 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/mZznOG69.html <---last nights effort, love seeing that little bit of info :) |
| 18:17.54 | dtidrow | Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 6244 |
| 18:18.30 | dtidrow | Logarithmic VGR metric is 3.80 (natural logarithm is 8.74) |
| 18:18.30 | dtidrow | that's a nice bump :-) |
| 18:18.31 | IriX64 | hot, very hot, better put another heatsink on :) |
| 18:27.16 | IriX64 | howd you compile that so fast :) |
| 18:28.12 | IriX64 | errr 30 |
| 18:35.19 | IriX64 | on the bright side ./configure only takes 6 minutes :) |
| 18:44.16 | IriX64 | ftp://www3.sympatico.ca allows *me to login anonymously, would appreciate somebody trying it. |
| 18:51.20 | IriX64 | use a browser |
| 19:04.00 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613836.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:04.31 | IriX64 | works for me, i'm happy :) |
| 19:13.24 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613494.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:25.03 | IriX64 | haha my command line ftp client can't even find it :) |
| 19:25.49 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 19:26.00 | IriX64 | anybody have Konqueror? does it work? |
| 19:28.15 | IriX64 | so much for work lets return to the fun stuff, brlcad is building |
| 19:29.12 | IriX64 | err brl-cad :) |
| 19:29.22 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, does it matter what Linux distribution you are running to compile brl-cad? |
| 19:29.45 | IriX64 | ask those who wrote it |
| 19:30.01 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: What version are you using? |
| 19:30.06 | IriX64 | cvs |
| 19:30.13 | MinuteElectron | Of Linux |
| 19:30.23 | IriX64 | just updated about 45 mins ago |
| 19:30.34 | IriX64 | who says i'm using linux |
| 19:30.46 | MinuteElectron | Sorry, okay. |
| 19:30.54 | IriX64 | but i have redhat 5.1 |
| 19:31.05 | MinuteElectron | ok, :D |
| 19:31.19 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:31.28 | MinuteElectron | I will try using Ubuntu - but first to install my wi-box on Ubuntu (or at least try). |
| 19:31.42 | IriX64 | was just going to ask |
| 19:32.03 | IriX64 | should get a leopard system :) |
| 19:34.38 | *** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com) | |
| 19:35.40 | IriX64 | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait... <-----gotta get this part working |
| 19:39.41 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, have you considered a digitizer? |
| 19:54.27 | brlcad | gah, missed him again |
| 20:12.51 | IriX64 | what's thew most common image format (meaning easiest to view) for *nix systems, can you handle png's easily? |
| 20:28.56 | IriX64 | ahh well a jpg of my desktop (stryker.jpg) on ftp://www3.sympatico.ca (what i affectionatly call "my spot") |
| 20:32.30 | dtidrow | arg - still broken :-( |
| 20:32.38 | IriX64 | still? |
| 20:32.45 | IriX64 | symptom? |
| 20:32.48 | dtidrow | nothing's happening |
| 20:32.57 | IriX64 | did it prompt? |
| 20:33.23 | dtidrow | nope |
| 20:33.30 | IriX64 | did it connect? |
| 20:34.01 | poolio | IriX64: just post them to imageshack.us or something |
| 20:34.14 | IriX64 | gotta get this working |
| 20:34.30 | IriX64 | what client (remebering i said to use a browser) |
| 20:34.49 | dtidrow | firefox 1.5.x |
| 20:35.04 | IriX64 | so answer did it connect? |
| 20:35.27 | IriX64 | wait i have a firefox here |
| 20:35.28 | dtidrow | it says at the bottom of the window: "Beginning FTP transaction..." |
| 20:38.11 | IriX64 | should say connected to www3.sympatico.ca and an box should come up asking for username and password |
| 20:39.35 | IriX64 | still broken, ill call didn't let me in anonymously thanks dtidrow |
| 20:39.52 | dtidrow | k - there was no box either |
| 20:39.52 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-235.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 20:41.12 | AchiestDragon | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIPTEK-12000U-12-x-9-A4-GRAPHICS-TABLET-FREE-UK-DELIVRY_W0QQitemZ300125909553QQihZ020QQcategoryZ39980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 20:41.28 | AchiestDragon | seems good but looks like a bit of a pain for linux support |
| 20:41.55 | dtidrow | brlcad: did you see the benchmark I posted? |
| 20:46.18 | dtidrow | went from 5620 to 6244 |
| 20:46.57 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=5207211c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-237f61313b8fdc1e) | |
| 20:47.20 | MinuteElectron | And you would think setting up a wireless connection on Linux would be easy... |
| 20:47.29 | MinuteElectron | Welcome back Windows - I am your friend. |
| 20:48.05 | dtidrow | depends on the distro and h/w |
| 20:48.31 | MinuteElectron | h/w? |
| 20:48.35 | dtidrow | took me a little while to get it working here on FC6, but it's fine now |
| 20:48.39 | dtidrow | hardware |
| 20:48.43 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, |
| 20:49.11 | AchiestDragon | suse detects and configures for my wifi straight from the box , where with windows i have to hunt arround for the driver disk |
| 20:49.30 | dtidrow | somehardware doesn't have drivers for it because the company that sells it or the wireless chipset won't let the info out |
| 20:49.34 | MinuteElectron | The wireless stick was instantly recognised by Ubuntnu - unfourtunatley I couldn't connect to any networks (well it said I had but the internet wouldn't work). |
| 20:50.37 | dtidrow | might be a networking issue - did you have ethernet running as well? |
| 20:51.03 | MinuteElectron | I tried it with and without, |
| 20:52.04 | dtidrow | nice - about a 11% speed bump just from the extra optimization flags |
| 21:01.00 | brlcad | dtidrow: very nice |
| 21:01.16 | brlcad | which options did you use? |
| 21:02.08 | brlcad | howdy MinuteElectron |
| 21:03.25 | MinuteElectron | hi |
| 21:11.48 | dtidrow | --enable-optimized --with-opengl --with-cflags="-march=pentium-m -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double" |
| 21:12.32 | dtidrow | used pentium-m instead of nocona because the Core's are supposed to be derived from Pentium-M |
| 21:12.58 | dtidrow | gcc 4.2 has -march=core2 available |
| 21:18.18 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:21.55 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 21:22.33 | MinuteElectron | Ha, |
| 21:22.43 | MinuteElectron | Anyway... |
| 21:22.46 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Got a mo? |
| 21:33.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: include the configure flags in the summary report, remove surrounding whitespace on the FLAGS variables and only print them if they're not empty |
| 21:34.15 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: sure, what's up |
| 21:34.21 | MinuteElectron | website |
| 21:34.32 | brlcad | still working on the image, not quite done (got distracted with a related icon) |
| 21:34.42 | MinuteElectron | heh dw |
| 21:35.38 | IriX64 | dtidrow: http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stykerbg4.jpg there ya go :) |
| 21:35.55 | IriX64 | problems being addressed |
| 21:41.56 | IriX64 | might as well compare benchmarks, running mine now :) |
| 21:44.42 | IriX64 | RTFM=RealTimeFrameMeasurement :P |
| 21:45.55 | IriX64 | should have stopped all other jobs i guess |
| 21:46.10 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:46.44 | IriX64 | as I said last night, I prefer accuracy over speed, not that yours is inaccurate :) |
| 21:48.20 | IriX64 | something wrong here bldg391 always comes up 74 off by 1 0 off by many |
| 21:48.41 | dtidrow | similar here |
| 21:48.58 | IriX64 | no idea what goes on there |
| 21:49.17 | IriX64 | suppose i could open up the code, but I don't care :) |
| 21:49.23 | dtidrow | sure it's not m35? |
| 21:49.32 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 21:49.56 | IriX64 | whup right i read the wrong line |
| 21:50.00 | dtidrow | k |
| 21:51.34 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/kamPt390.html <-- there you go, the whole run |
| 21:52.18 | dtidrow | what's the cpu? |
| 21:53.23 | dtidrow | cpu speed, I mean... |
| 21:53.56 | dtidrow | http://rafb.net/p/QgE7cI34.html - my output |
| 21:57.59 | IriX64 | all i used was msse3 opteron and --enable-optimized and --enable-optimizations, I rarely play with CFLAGS= |
| 21:58.34 | IriX64 | now to see if it can display geometry :) |
| 21:58.48 | IriX64 | whup gotta install it first |
| 22:01.36 | IriX64 | cleverl programmed into each make install is a coffee break, goona go get some |
| 22:01.42 | IriX64 | cleverly too |
| 22:06.56 | MinuteElectron | I *have* to sleep, I am so tired that I accidentally reverted decent code on a project I was working on this morning. Stayling online to download cygwin and brl-cad from CVS. Goodnight. |
| 22:16.11 | IriX64 | Good Night |
| 22:16.44 | IriX64 | just how much of the world is represented here (you obviously know where I am) |
| 22:17.49 | IriX64 | SuperTaz, gotta be Australia :P |
| 22:18.41 | MinuteElectron | I am UK, but shush about it. |
| 22:19.09 | IriX64 | got it sorry, what are you doing not in bed :) |
| 22:19.12 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: Heh, I didn't know you were US. |
| 22:19.29 | IriX64 | Canada man the colony :) |
| 22:19.33 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: I had to use the bathroom and came back to check if CVS checkout had finished. |
| 22:19.39 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: Oh, lol. |
| 22:19.56 | IriX64 | did cvs treat you well |
| 22:20.24 | MinuteElectron | Hasn't finished, already at 80+ MB. |
| 22:20.34 | MinuteElectron | I guess that is about half way |
| 22:20.39 | MinuteElectron | Well, |
| 22:20.43 | MinuteElectron | probably not actually. |
| 22:20.49 | MinuteElectron | If you include all the .cvs files |
| 22:20.53 | IriX64 | maybe the tarball would have been easier to get started i mean |
| 22:20.56 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:21.01 | MinuteElectron | Oh, |
| 22:21.15 | MinuteElectron | I thought there was some problems with the tarball. |
| 22:21.18 | IriX64 | just unpack it then do the cvs thing |
| 22:21.28 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 22:21.41 | IriX64 | dunno how much time youd save |
| 22:21.44 | MinuteElectron | Started now, I am goin to leave my PC on all night so it doesn't matter. |
| 22:21.53 | IriX64 | good plan |
| 22:22.06 | MinuteElectron | Anyway, I really do need some sleep. Laterz. |
| 22:22.11 | IriX64 | tell it to compile it while you sleep :) |
| 22:22.13 | IriX64 | later |
| 22:51.43 | IriX64 | http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faceplatekv5.png |
| 22:52.35 | IriX64 | drat, i'll use jpg from now on |
| 22:55.08 | MinuteElectron | That's better. |
| 22:57.34 | IriX64 | http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2814/7101po4.jpg there (latest Build) |
| 22:58.16 | IriX64 | I'll stop spamming the channel now :) |
| 22:59.39 | IriX64 | hah i should post the rt that just happened (yeah it works) :) |
| 23:01.51 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 23:01.54 | MinuteElectron | User@not-3n1jjeirhea /cygdrive/c/brlcad |
| 23:01.55 | MinuteElectron | $ sh autogen.sh |
| 23:01.57 | MinuteElectron | autogen.sh: line 75: $'\r': command not found |
| 23:01.58 | MinuteElectron | autogen.sh: line 93: syntax error near unexpected token `$'{\r'' |
| 23:02.00 | MinuteElectron | 'utogen.sh: line 93: `ident ( ) { |
| 23:02.28 | dtidrow | ? |
| 23:02.43 | IriX64 | shouldn't have to type sh |
| 23:03.04 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: even on cygwin? |
| 23:03.16 | IriX64 | on mine anyway :) |
| 23:03.24 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 23:03.38 | IriX64 | just type ./autogen.sh |
| 23:03.49 | dtidrow | should work :-) |
| 23:03.54 | MinuteElectron | same error |
| 23:04.01 | brlcad | that's odd (regarding autogen.sh) .. sounds like some windows/unix line ending issue |
| 23:04.02 | MinuteElectron | the funny thing is there is nothing on line 75 |
| 23:04.03 | dtidrow | better yet, switch to a _real_ OS ;-) |
| 23:04.38 | IriX64 | you saying mine is a figment of my imagination :) |
| 23:04.48 | IriX64 | try fedora |
| 23:05.08 | dtidrow | MinuteElectron: what failed? |
| 23:05.10 | MinuteElectron | hmm, so I switched from CRLF to LF and now it works. |
| 23:05.15 | brlcad | IriX64: and RTFM does not stand for RealTimeFrameMeasurement :P |
| 23:05.27 | dtidrow | lol |
| 23:05.30 | IriX64 | heh |
| 23:05.43 | IriX64 | ReadTheFineManual? :) |
| 23:06.02 | MinuteElectron | ERROR: Unable to locate GNU Autoconf. |
| 23:06.05 | MinuteElectron | ha |
| 23:06.20 | IriX64 | www.gnu.org compile and go :) |
| 23:06.30 | brlcad | IriX64: also no |
| 23:06.33 | dtidrow | should be in there somewhere |
| 23:06.48 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: I have to compile on cygwin? |
| 23:06.50 | IriX64 | RayTraceFigureOfMerit? ;) |
| 23:07.19 | IriX64 | minuteelctron yes |
| 23:07.23 | brlcad | bingo |
| 23:07.29 | IriX64 | heh |
| 23:07.57 | IriX64 | I'm using 2.61 |
| 23:08.09 | IriX64 | automake 1.9.6 |
| 23:08.17 | IriX64 | libtool 1.5.22 |
| 23:09.35 | IriX64 | ack!! havoc just launched a missile, where do I hide :P |
| 23:10.19 | IriX64 | you guys are good, I barely understand mug.g let alone something like havoc |
| 23:10.20 | dtidrow | not behind me! |
| 23:10.50 | MinuteElectron | ha 'bash: make: command not found' |
| 23:11.23 | MinuteElectron | this is hilarious |
| 23:11.41 | IriX64 | you need to install make |
| 23:11.46 | MinuteElectron | i see |
| 23:11.54 | IriX64 | www.gnu.org :P |
| 23:12.15 | IriX64 | www.gnu.org and i are old friends |
| 23:12.25 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:12.52 | IriX64 | you'll need gcc to (thats a feat) |
| 23:13.07 | brlcad | there are cygwin packages that provide all those things |
| 23:13.26 | IriX64 | yes but out of date but they'll get you started |
| 23:13.52 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: if you were on cygwin, you probably shouldn't have pulled the zip file .. that's likely where you're getting line ending problems from if you did |
| 23:14.08 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I didn't use the zip file. |
| 23:14.12 | MinuteElectron | I used CVS. |
| 23:14.17 | IriX64 | he said cvs |
| 23:14.20 | brlcad | ah, interesting |
| 23:14.22 | IriX64 | whup sorry :) |
| 23:15.05 | brlcad | is the execute bit not set then or something? |
| 23:15.32 | IriX64 | use theirs to update |
| 23:15.36 | brlcad | it should tell you to run configure before it tells you to run make |
| 23:15.44 | brlcad | and configure will fail if there is no make |
| 23:15.56 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What do you mean? It was a problem with using CRLFs instead of LF |
| 23:16.23 | brlcad | i mean, did ./autogen.sh work? |
| 23:16.27 | brlcad | s/work/run/ |
| 23:16.50 | brlcad | i don't mean successfully, i mean just did it run at all |
| 23:17.18 | MinuteElectron | It ran. |
| 23:17.38 | brlcad | okay |
| 23:17.47 | IriX64 | try this make --version |
| 23:17.56 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: where? |
| 23:18.12 | IriX64 | at the prompt |
| 23:18.41 | MinuteElectron | I found the problem: ./configure failed. |
| 23:18.59 | IriX64 | where? |
| 23:19.00 | MinuteElectron | I forgot to install gcc. |
| 23:19.06 | MinuteElectron | at make |
| 23:19.09 | dtidrow | d'oh! |
| 23:19.19 | IriX64 | that'll do it every time :) |
| 23:20.59 | MinuteElectron | I am getting the hang of this. |
| 23:21.13 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 23:22.57 | IriX64 | http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3617/oldbuildrw4.jpg This is 7.8.4, trying to get 7.10 to look like this |
| 23:23.53 | IriX64 | now brlcad will say it already does ;) |
| 23:24.56 | IriX64 | dog needs a walk ill be back in a bit |
| 23:32.42 | MinuteElectron | ha |
| 23:32.44 | MinuteElectron | checking for cc... no |
| 23:32.46 | MinuteElectron | configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH |
| 23:32.56 | MinuteElectron | I bet you guys can tell I am a total n00b |
| 23:36.25 | MinuteElectron | wtF? |
| 23:36.51 | MinuteElectron | how the hell am I meant to install bison? without it I can't install gcc and without gcc I can't install bison. |
| 23:42.45 | IriX64 | http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8418/musictocompilebyoi5.jpg :P |
| 23:44.08 | MinuteElectron | I am being forced to go to bed. |
| 23:44.22 | MinuteElectron | I *will* compile this tomorrow morning/ |
| 23:44.32 | IriX64 | had to cut the walk short, computer reported it dropped a bit, needed me to pick it up :) |
| 23:44.32 | MinuteElectron | goodnight for the last time |
| 23:44.40 | IriX64 | goodnight |
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| 23:46.48 | *** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:47.41 | RodGallowGlass | it works? heh |
| 23:47.47 | *** part/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:13.15 | IriX64 | Opera, go figure :) |
| 01:01.53 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:03.42 | IriX64 | who wrote autogen.sh? |
| 01:04.47 | IriX64 | the header is there but no authors name or am i just missing it? |
| 01:08.14 | IriX64 | just wondering, because i'm having a problem upgrading to automake-1.10, it parsed it as 1.1.0 so i dropped back to 1.9.6 |
| 01:16.28 | IriX64 | libtool i'm running is 1.5.22 it parses fine |
| 01:22.20 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 :) a little playing around |
| 01:23.38 | IriX64 | should see what rev irssi is at i guess that ones old |
| 01:26.22 | IriX64 | hah .8.11 |
| 01:34.09 | IriX64 | sigh no perl again, one day i'm gonna have to tackle that |
| 01:38.26 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:41.20 | IriX64_ | works, might as well put it on the server :) |
| 01:47.34 | IriX64 | there you go (as if anybody wants it though they all use Mirc :P) |
| 02:04.13 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/598132 <---- man i thought you fixed it (cvs update not 3 hrs ago) |
| 02:05.36 | IriX64 | mistake me for a serious man will you :P |
| 02:06.40 | IriX64 | the benign ones i won't report :) |
| 02:07.24 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:24.03 | IriX64 | http://www.pastebin.ca/598148 <---- could use some help here. |
| 02:24.49 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 02:28.56 | IriX64 | tried with system tk lib too, problem is it comes from the same people :) |
| 02:29.42 | IriX64 | 8.5a5 8.5a6 happens with both |
| 02:38.33 | IriX64 | gotta go guys, l8r |
| 04:22.44 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:30.35 | IriX64 | tried a make distclean, tcl has no rule to do a distclean :( |
| 04:42.09 | IriX64 | the old build works with Xwin32 too, hoping the same for 7.10 :) |
| 04:45.01 | IriX64 | www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mapped.png have a look |
| 04:46.51 | IriX64 | err http:www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 mapped.png sorry :) |
| 04:55.55 | brlcad | stop it |
| 05:00.36 | IriX64 | ok |
| 05:11.27 | IriX64 | permantly? If I get something worth sharing, is it allowed? |
| 05:12.17 | brlcad | you've been going pretty much non-stop for over 4 hours |
| 05:12.35 | brlcad | with complete disregard to anyone talking back and stopping after 5 |
| 05:12.50 | IriX64 | apologies |
| 05:33.38 | IriX64 | goodnight |
| 06:26.17 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 07:34.59 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 08:24.37 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: busy? |
| 08:25.10 | MinuteElectron | configure: creating ./config.status |
| 08:25.12 | MinuteElectron | .infig.status: error: cannot find input file: |
| 08:27.46 | brlcad | sounds like you're still missing things, sounds like autogen.sh did not complete successfully/correctly but I'd need more info to know for sure |
| 08:28.05 | brlcad | run ./autogen.sh --verbose and make sure it completes correctly |
| 08:29.28 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 08:31.04 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: winsock.h error http://paste2.org/p/4194 |
| 08:51.43 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What would be the signs of a problem |
| 09:34.14 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-077-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 11:26.23 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
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| 14:14.17 | *** join/#brlcad n9986 (n=nandeep@59.176.80.223) | |
| 14:14.17 | n9986 | Hi all |
| 14:14.35 | *** part/#brlcad n9986 (n=nandeep@59.176.80.223) | |
| 14:21.01 | AchiestDragon | well at least he did not ask a question and leave before anyone got arround to answer it like normal :) |
| 14:28.10 | poolio | hehe, mornin |
| 14:28.22 | AchiestDragon | hi |
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| 16:42.55 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: ping |
| 16:43.24 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: :) true |
| 16:43.42 | brlcad | so, how does this look: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/newtitle.png |
| 16:55.38 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: back |
| 16:57.36 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: wow! looking good |
| 16:58.45 | brlcad | it should collapse down to about 1024 wide minimum with the right css |
| 16:59.08 | elite01 | fine |
| 16:59.17 | MinuteElectron | it is 1200x600 |
| 16:59.48 | brlcad | right, at 1200 now in that clip, but it should compress further |
| 16:59.55 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 17:00.13 | MinuteElectron | you have two images? |
| 17:01.20 | brlcad | the right side should be able to move in/out almost all the way over -- where the search and menu come together probably |
| 17:01.26 | brlcad | two images? |
| 17:01.34 | MinuteElectron | ok, I get it |
| 17:02.32 | brlcad | there are probably 4 or 5 css-layers in there to make it work |
| 17:03.39 | brlcad | the logo text, the left background, the right background, the left search, and the right menu |
| 17:04.19 | MinuteElectron | the logo text is going to be seperate? |
| 17:04.26 | MinuteElectron | it would be easier to make it par tof hte image |
| 17:05.12 | brlcad | then it won't compress much more than 1200 |
| 17:05.29 | brlcad | to get the right side to slide under the left without seeing a hard line |
| 17:05.53 | MinuteElectron | hmm, ok |
| 17:06.00 | brlcad | i mean unless you can sort it out, good luck with that :) |
| 17:06.10 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 17:06.11 | brlcad | the css is the hard part ;) |
| 17:06.22 | brlcad | there's lots of little detail in ther |
| 17:06.25 | MinuteElectron | do you have the original photoshop files so i can get the layers out of it? |
| 17:06.30 | brlcad | the menu in particular |
| 17:06.36 | brlcad | yeah, sure |
| 17:06.39 | brlcad | hold on a sec |
| 17:08.31 | brlcad | uploaded, same dir titlebar.psd |
| 17:09.00 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 17:12.33 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: ha, I see the Haiku layer at the bottom :P |
| 17:15.04 | brlcad | yup |
| 17:15.06 | brlcad | comparison |
| 17:15.31 | brlcad | and inspiration |
| 17:31.20 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: There is a problem with the truck. |
| 17:32.13 | brlcad | what's that? |
| 17:32.24 | MinuteElectron | 82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 17:32.27 | MinuteElectron | http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/ |
| 17:32.38 | MinuteElectron | On resolutions 1024x768 it looks good |
| 17:32.50 | MinuteElectron | but anything lower then the truck gets cut. |
| 17:34.09 | brlcad | that's what I was referring to about making the title text a separate layer |
| 17:34.30 | MinuteElectron | oh I see, |
| 17:34.35 | brlcad | makes that line go away |
| 17:34.36 | MinuteElectron | working on it |
| 17:35.01 | brlcad | three layers, so the right side is above the left's background but under the left's text |
| 17:35.56 | brlcad | did gimp strip out the text layer effects or'd you do that? |
| 17:36.17 | MinuteElectron | it was gimp |
| 17:36.26 | MinuteElectron | coudl you send me the text in a png |
| 17:36.29 | brlcad | sure |
| 17:38.05 | brlcad | want them as one or two? |
| 17:38.11 | MinuteElectron | one please |
| 17:41.29 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/titletext.png |
| 17:41.46 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 17:44.46 | brlcad | sure, let me know if you need any others |
| 17:45.02 | brlcad | that should be the only blend going on if i'm not mistaken |
| 17:48.46 | brlcad | ah, xyz needs it's own layer too to work right |
| 17:49.33 | MinuteElectron | xyz? |
| 17:49.40 | MinuteElectron | oh |
| 17:49.43 | MinuteElectron | the graph |
| 17:50.03 | brlcad | the axes |
| 17:50.08 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can you take a look at the thing? |
| 17:50.19 | MinuteElectron | It is not improved. |
| 17:50.47 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/xyz.png |
| 17:51.54 | brlcad | looks like it's getting better |
| 17:52.01 | MinuteElectron | not at 800x600 |
| 17:54.22 | MinuteElectron | xyz added |
| 17:54.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Opinon? |
| 18:01.37 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:03.41 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/titleleft.png |
| 18:04.26 | brlcad | with that, you should be able to let the right side be all the way back |
| 18:04.32 | brlcad | so it just slides under |
| 18:04.44 | poolio | howdy brlcad |
| 18:05.02 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:05.03 | brlcad | howdy poolio |
| 18:07.01 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 m35.jpg (it did it :)) |
| 18:07.02 | poolio | gorgeous day, what are we all doing on our computers? :p |
| 18:07.23 | IriX64 | poolio and why is our wallpaper a shot of a sunset :) |
| 18:07.55 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Any chance you could remove the border on the top and left, I cannot without b0rking the transparency. |
| 18:08.07 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: cool, ure server fixed |
| 18:08.31 | brlcad | IriX64: interesting, photon mapping I presume |
| 18:08.39 | IriX64 | minuteelectron yeah was trying something, doesn't work that way :) |
| 18:08.41 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: sure |
| 18:08.44 | IriX64 | brlcad yes |
| 18:08.47 | brlcad | you mean the black stripe |
| 18:09.15 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 18:09.19 | brlcad | would like to retain the hairline, though it certainly doesn't have to be in the iamge |
| 18:09.26 | MinuteElectron | dw |
| 18:09.30 | MinuteElectron | I will change the other images |
| 18:09.50 | poolio | MinuteElectron: Is there a recent version of the site up somewhere? |
| 18:10.08 | MinuteElectron | http://82.7.33.28/drupal-1.5 |
| 18:10.33 | IriX64 | doesn't resolve minuteelectron |
| 18:10.39 | brlcad | want me to fill it in transparent or clip the image one pixel smaller? |
| 18:10.51 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: neither, I will do it. |
| 18:10.58 | poolio | it's drupal-5.1 not 1.5 |
| 18:11.03 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 18:11.05 | MinuteElectron | bah |
| 18:11.14 | brlcad | so, what do you want me to do with it? :) |
| 18:11.15 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:11.20 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: nothing |
| 18:11.29 | brlcad | heh, okay |
| 18:11.52 | poolio | nifty header. |
| 18:12.02 | MinuteElectron | look now everyone |
| 18:12.21 | MinuteElectron | just not in IE. |
| 18:12.34 | brlcad | awesome |
| 18:12.47 | IriX64 | i'm looking in ie seems right |
| 18:12.49 | poolio | WOAH! Hooray transparency! |
| 18:12.50 | MinuteElectron | Resizes successfully down to 800x600 |
| 18:12.59 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: Yes, grey blobs FTW. |
| 18:13.16 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: You running 7? |
| 18:13.31 | IriX64 | 6 let me try fiefox minutelectron |
| 18:13.35 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 18:13.37 | IriX64 | err firefox |
| 18:14.34 | brlcad | woot, that actually lets it work all the way down to 655 :-) |
| 18:14.44 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 18:14.53 | IriX64 | minuteelectron looks same |
| 18:15.02 | MinuteElectron | same? |
| 18:15.06 | IriX64 | yes |
| 18:15.18 | MinuteElectron | do a screenshot just to test please :) |
| 18:15.37 | poolio | brlcad: I'd say 651, but ok :) |
| 18:15.39 | brlcad | poolio: here's the end effect we're currently going for: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/newtitle.png |
| 18:15.45 | IriX64 | just a sec firefox first then ie ok? |
| 18:15.48 | brlcad | poolio: heh, fair nuf :) |
| 18:15.59 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 18:16.08 | poolio | brlcad: cool, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the tan navigation though |
| 18:16.30 | poolio | and I'd float the search box into the header instead of having it stick down |
| 18:16.54 | brlcad | the color was pulled from the eagle logo frame |
| 18:17.05 | poolio | Yeah, I still think it's ugly though :) |
| 18:17.22 | poolio | and if you aren't using the eagle logo in the header it doesnt really matter |
| 18:17.27 | AchiestDragon | hmm |
| 18:17.46 | poolio | i think a more purple-blue-grey theme would be better |
| 18:17.49 | brlcad | yeah, more just a nod to it than a reason |
| 18:17.53 | poolio | yeah |
| 18:18.07 | brlcad | which matched up nicely color-wise with the truck and the green |
| 18:18.12 | IriX64 | minuteelectron, my server same.jpg both in one |
| 18:18.27 | AchiestDragon | not so shure , the old logo looks a bit too military based , the new one looks like well home made |
| 18:18.52 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: Yeah, that is how it is meant to look. |
| 18:19.19 | brlcad | i'm not entirely happy with the menu itself yet, but it's something |
| 18:19.38 | poolio | brlcad: mhmm. I'm really picky when it comes to web design :) |
| 18:20.10 | AchiestDragon | the truck needs to have perspective turned on |
| 18:21.13 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: yeah, I'm actually trying to get away from the whole military feel just a little. not loosing the logo, but pushing it out of the spotlight a little |
| 18:21.53 | brlcad | poolio: you're more than welcome to tweak it or come up with another menu :) |
| 18:22.00 | AchiestDragon | ues the old logo as a door image on the side of the truck |
| 18:22.52 | IriX64 | brlcad: perhaps a photon map shot of havoc somewhere just to show the power inherent |
| 18:23.13 | poolio | brlcad: hehe. can I do it on the clock? |
| 18:23.50 | brlcad | poolio: after this summer, sure :) |
| 18:24.15 | AchiestDragon | yes , that i think is the problem with the new logo the effect is shows is not rendered it gives the impression that the output of brlcad will look like that |
| 18:24.26 | poolio | brlcad: hehe, should I keep beset as my first priority then? |
| 18:24.41 | poolio | brlcad: also, is your my.brlcad.org/tmp directory supposed to be world readable? |
| 18:25.07 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: by logo do you mean the title text? |
| 18:25.18 | AchiestDragon | no the graphics with it |
| 18:25.34 | brlcad | not sure what you mean then |
| 18:25.44 | brlcad | I generated all the graphics from within brl-cad |
| 18:26.18 | poolio | brlcad: AHAHHA. http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/endofworld.swf |
| 18:26.37 | brlcad | only thing I didn't is the menu and the BRL-CAD title text .. and I could have done the title text too, but that would have been a bear to set up the same lighting hilights |
| 18:26.53 | brlcad | poolio: yeah, that's great |
| 18:26.53 | AchiestDragon | i mean the graphis you used show the wire frame , and half transparancy , rather than a solid rnedered photon view in perspective |
| 18:27.43 | brlcad | it's a blend of a wireframe, an hidden line render, and a regular raytrace |
| 18:29.13 | brlcad | there's actually a point for that too -- the progression of primitives on the left to more complex read geometry on the right |
| 18:29.14 | poolio | brlcad: i think I might get some work done, try to figure out how to deal with all the different shapes and trees and what not |
| 18:29.36 | poolio | brlcad: what shapes do you think should be implemented for starters? spheres/ellipsoids, rpp, and anything else? |
| 18:31.57 | brlcad | conics (tgc family), ellipsoids (ell family), planar polyhedra (arb8 family), and the torus |
| 18:32.13 | brlcad | that will give most shapes |
| 18:32.18 | poolio | alright cool. is rpp part of the arb8 family? |
| 18:32.22 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:32.41 | poolio | alright, and are there sub shapes for arb8 or is rpp just an alias for a specialized arb8? |
| 18:33.05 | brlcad | sort of an alias |
| 18:33.29 | brlcad | they are stored as arb8's but are evaluated as rpps (as you can do the ray-tracing faster that way) |
| 18:34.28 | MinuteElectron | That end of the world video is hilarious. |
| 18:34.34 | poolio | ah Ok. Also I might end up working with the tcl strings for the shapes, seems like that means a lot less work for me |
| 18:35.03 | brlcad | just like how the equation of an rcc (cylindrical tube) is very simple so that is used for evaluation, whereas the general equation of that shape is a truncated general cone (that is slightly more complex to evaluate) |
| 18:37.51 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I have a problem. |
| 18:38.04 | MinuteElectron | I am about to start doing the CSS for the navigation bar, |
| 18:38.36 | MinuteElectron | however the class identifiers could change when druapl is installed for real |
| 18:39.16 | MinuteElectron | and if it did the entire navigation would be ruined |
| 18:39.27 | brlcad | so lets do it for real then ;) |
| 18:39.37 | poolio | MinuteElectron: That's why God invited regex. |
| 18:39.40 | brlcad | s/lets // ;) |
| 18:39.44 | poolio | brlcad: ahahhaa :D |
| 18:40.08 | MinuteElectron | poolio: ok... |
| 18:40.17 | brlcad | i'll just need a few bits of info from you |
| 18:40.24 | MinuteElectron | ok... |
| 18:41.36 | AchiestDragon | brlcad: like http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Brlcad.jpg&oldid=607 |
| 18:42.25 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, nice, my current wallpaper :) |
| 18:43.00 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon I think I like yours better |
| 18:43.20 | AchiestDragon | it shows of what can be done better than showing of the low qualaty working view |
| 18:45.17 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, it's too small for wallpaper, stretches out of proportion |
| 18:46.07 | AchiestDragon | the width of the image is limited as it is only a section of the image on your site so not hi res ,, |
| 18:46.23 | AchiestDragon | the brlcad site that is |
| 18:50.33 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, my server.... Havoc.jpg |
| 18:51.36 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: hehe, though if you knew the setup required for that image... it's a bit more misleading than blended renderings effort-wise :) |
| 18:52.21 | AchiestDragon | yes |
| 18:52.37 | brlcad | personally, i'm a bit tired of that image too :) |
| 18:52.56 | brlcad | though I certainly see and show it a bit more than you probably :) |
| 18:53.31 | AchiestDragon | but the renderings used dont show of the realistic effect that brlcad can produce , although i tend to aggree that that himage has been arround for some time |
| 18:54.05 | AchiestDragon | any user submitted image that comes close to the "realistic effect" with good detail that could be used |
| 18:54.33 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:54.44 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, if you like mine use it everything on that site is available |
| 18:55.06 | poolio | oops. |
| 18:55.27 | AchiestDragon | the helecopter is good but its yet another mil type image |
| 18:55.57 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, choose something in the example geometry or give me one :) |
| 18:56.50 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, the shuttle or nozzle would be great but i can't find them and am not about to purchase that program :) |
| 18:57.24 | AchiestDragon | had one better , give me a few mins see if i can find the archive |
| 18:57.31 | IriX64 | sure |
| 19:07.26 | AchiestDragon | http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Alien.png&oldid=608 |
| 19:08.10 | AchiestDragon | it was a blender file that i exported then imported into brlcad some time ago |
| 19:10.58 | AchiestDragon | i dont have the name of the original author of that but its gpl and if it was to be used it would need his name for the credits |
| 19:15.18 | brlcad | heh, neat picture |
| 19:16.22 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, thought you were going to give me geometry :) |
| 19:16.34 | AchiestDragon | alot of the meshes turned into arrays of triangles so it lost the curves on the surfaces in the export |
| 19:26.26 | AchiestDragon | i did this in solidworks but converted it to brlcad ... |
| 19:26.40 | AchiestDragon | http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Rendered.png&oldid=609 |
| 19:28.35 | AchiestDragon | before making this , http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/robot4.jpg |
| 19:30.04 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, I presume the materials are germanium and silicon :) |
| 19:32.25 | IriX64 | artist too |
| 19:33.22 | IriX64 | mmmm 7.6.1 my first experience was with 7.6.0 |
| 19:36.22 | IriX64 | TankCar.jpg |
| 19:49.26 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: hah, that's awesome |
| 19:49.35 | brlcad | dues it actually drive? |
| 19:51.00 | AchiestDragon | it needed another ideler wheel at each side to stop it sheading the tracks when turning |
| 20:02.39 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:05.51 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, they built that from brl-cad specs? |
| 20:06.24 | IriX64 | heh roborooter comes to mind (duck) |
| 20:47.32 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, maybe you can use this, it came out black though, have to play with the illumination |
| 20:47.37 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Geometric_Solutions_Tank_Car2.jpg |
| 21:05.26 | AchiestDragon | maybe ,, do you have a raytraced output with good lighting of it |
| 21:13.48 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 21:16.35 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, how bout a regular raytrace not photonmapped will that do, I can have one quickly? |
| 21:18.48 | AchiestDragon | the havoc pic is good because it looks realistic , i gues theres little chance of finding something rendered to that qualaty |
| 21:19.11 | brlcad | seeing havoc rendered with rise would be interesting |
| 21:19.13 | AchiestDragon | and ok so it took how many days to render |
| 21:19.43 | poolio | alright guys, i'm gonna go play some ultimate, be back later :) |
| 21:20.33 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/GeoMetricSolutionsTankCar.png |
| 21:20.38 | IriX64 | days? |
| 21:21.10 | IriX64 | adrt doesn't compile here (yet:)) |
| 21:27.23 | AchiestDragon | imeant the stryker icv 5 days on 48 X 2.4Ghz xeon's |
| 21:28.40 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, I saw that 8trillion rays |
| 21:29.04 | brlcad | those numbers were later cut in half, fwiw |
| 21:29.29 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, lets do a bench, get brlcad to send me the .g file :) |
| 21:29.46 | IriX64 | brlcad I can't imagine that |
| 21:30.07 | AchiestDragon | well bot hmged and archer dont work on this pc :( so canot try atm |
| 21:30.46 | IriX64 | I haven't played with archer yet |
| 21:31.12 | AchiestDragon | was hoping archer would of been running in linux by now |
| 21:31.24 | IriX64 | superior to mged? |
| 21:32.07 | brlcad | in some ways, not in others |
| 21:32.23 | IriX64 | noted will explore later |
| 21:32.27 | AchiestDragon | it looked an easyer interface to use when i saw it last , ok so got to be about 2 years back |
| 21:32.29 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: patches welcome ;) |
| 21:32.42 | brlcad | I'd give just about anyone commit access if they wanted to work on it ;) |
| 21:33.02 | brlcad | is mostly build integration issues, not even archer issues for the most part |
| 21:33.26 | brlcad | it's just been low on the totem pole |
| 21:34.02 | AchiestDragon | i may have a go , but need to sort out my graphic card config first ,, got to remove one of the cards and get the system to boot without resorting to some od config each time |
| 21:35.41 | AchiestDragon | theres a matrox g200 quad head and a g550 dual head card in here , the quad card is driving 2 lcd's and the dual just the one , but it forgets the xconfig after power on |
| 21:36.23 | AchiestDragon | i have to manualy edit it and restart x after each power on |
| 21:37.29 | AchiestDragon | almost at the stage of doing a compleate reinstall , but sort of keep posponing it as it works fine after |
| 21:40.32 | AchiestDragon | although going to load brlcad on the windows box when i get time |
| 21:41.26 | AchiestDragon | maybe later tonight |
| 21:41.29 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:58.18 | IriX64 | AciestDragon, the windows archer i've experimented with |
| 21:58.28 | IriX64 | err AchiestDragon too |
| 22:03.21 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Archer.png <--- just messing around |
| 22:05.18 | IriX64 | brlcad: does -ffast-math really make a difference, i've never experimented with speed enhancers |
| 22:07.51 | brlcad | experiment |
| 22:19.25 | AchiestDragon | well installed in windows |
| 22:20.08 | AchiestDragon | now i remeber how bad the mged command set is to remeber |
| 22:21.36 | brlcad | yeah, it can be a bear if you don't use it repeatedly |
| 22:21.50 | brlcad | which wouldn't be so bad, but the help facilities are teh suck too sometimes |
| 22:22.43 | AchiestDragon | well at least i have a working verision installed on one macine anyway |
| 22:23.45 | AchiestDragon | although not in mood to trol though doc's tonight |
| 22:24.35 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mged.png <--- this command set ;) |
| 22:27.10 | poolio | evenin |
| 22:27.24 | SuperTaz | irix |
| 22:27.36 | SuperTaz | what modeller is in the chackground of the archer image? |
| 22:27.42 | SuperTaz | background, even |
| 22:28.09 | IriX64 | modeller? |
| 22:28.25 | SuperTaz | with the wireframe in it? |
| 22:28.44 | IriX64 | havoc and i rt'ed it |
| 22:28.51 | SuperTaz | rt? |
| 22:28.56 | IriX64 | raytrace |
| 22:28.59 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 22:29.08 | SuperTaz | havoc is the modeller? |
| 22:29.14 | SuperTaz | works with brl-cad? |
| 22:29.26 | IriX64 | I don't know your terms explain modeller to me |
| 22:29.46 | SuperTaz | that which you created the model in |
| 22:29.59 | SuperTaz | the tool behind the rendering |
| 22:30.02 | IriX64 | the geometry window |
| 22:30.06 | SuperTaz | yes |
| 22:30.08 | SuperTaz | what is that? |
| 22:30.15 | IriX64 | part of archer |
| 22:30.16 | brlcad | that is archer |
| 22:30.19 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 22:30.20 | IriX64 | yes |
| 22:30.32 | IriX64 | sorry for the confusion :) |
| 22:30.34 | SuperTaz | where'd you get archer? |
| 22:30.54 | IriX64 | windows binaries distribution;) |
| 22:31.01 | IriX64 | off sourceforge |
| 22:31.05 | *** join/#brlcad WindowsDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 22:31.10 | SuperTaz | oh...it's windows only? |
| 22:31.13 | brlcad | archer is a refactoring of mged written predominantly by mged's primary author |
| 22:31.15 | IriX64 | yes sorry |
| 22:31.24 | poolio | brlcad: who was mged's primary author? |
| 22:31.40 | brlcad | he started cleaning stuff up (starting several years ago) and after a while, he had the foundations for a new editor |
| 22:31.47 | brlcad | poolio: Bob |
| 22:31.53 | brlcad | Parker |
| 22:32.05 | SuperTaz | ahhhh |
| 22:32.05 | SuperTaz | it's nice |
| 22:32.05 | SuperTaz | shame it's windows only |
| 22:32.10 | brlcad | it's not really windows-only |
| 22:32.15 | SuperTaz | oh? |
| 22:32.18 | brlcad | it's just only been released in binary form on windows |
| 22:32.24 | brlcad | and presently doesn't run out of CVS ;) |
| 22:32.38 | brlcad | but code-wise, it'll run on windows, linux, mac, bsd, at least |
| 22:32.51 | SuperTaz | oh |
| 22:33.03 | SuperTaz | so, in other words...I can't run it on my mac |
| 22:33.04 | brlcad | just needs some build infrastructure clean-up |
| 22:33.06 | SuperTaz | because it won't build |
| 22:33.10 | brlcad | right |
| 22:33.16 | brlcad | actually, it builds |
| 22:33.17 | SuperTaz | well poop |
| 22:33.27 | SuperTaz | it just won't run? |
| 22:33.28 | brlcad | but it will complain at run-time about not finding some resource library it needs |
| 22:33.31 | brlcad | path problem |
| 22:33.34 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 22:33.39 | brlcad | looking in the wrong place |
| 22:33.53 | SuperTaz | is it fixable? |
| 22:34.31 | brlcad | infinitely |
| 22:34.47 | SuperTaz | I'm just asking because I would like something a little smoother than vanilla mged |
| 22:35.10 | SuperTaz | can't find archer on sourceforge |
| 22:35.26 | brlcad | it's still not meant to be a full-blown mged replacement, missing lots of commands you'd eventually want |
| 22:35.51 | SuperTaz | yeah, but it looks pretty decent for rapid prototyping |
| 22:36.04 | brlcad | bob gets to play with it mostly in his spare time, mostly good as a viewer at this point |
| 22:36.06 | SuperTaz | looks nice and user-friendly |
| 22:36.10 | IriX64 | unix archer is part of cvs |
| 22:36.10 | SuperTaz | oh |
| 22:36.13 | SuperTaz | bah |
| 22:36.13 | brlcad | it's a lot more friendly |
| 22:36.29 | brlcad | it can do editing, but I"m just saying that it's far from "done" |
| 22:36.32 | SuperTaz | I just need something friendly to design geometry in |
| 22:36.42 | SuperTaz | mged is not friendly, thus far |
| 22:36.49 | SuperTaz | of course, I'm a n00b to mged |
| 22:36.53 | IriX64 | how so? |
| 22:36.55 | brlcad | far from replacing even a 10% of what mged does feature-wise |
| 22:37.17 | brlcad | though what it does, it generally does better |
| 22:37.22 | poolio | SuperTaz: mged isn't that hard to learn. Take some time and read through the tutorials online |
| 22:37.27 | brlcad | really just needs some loving care and attention |
| 22:37.34 | SuperTaz | I have the tutorials |
| 22:37.46 | SuperTaz | I just have to have the time to go through them |
| 22:38.01 | IriX64 | SuperTaz you can create many of the standard primitives from the gui |
| 22:38.03 | brlcad | therein being the crux of the problem ;) |
| 22:38.07 | SuperTaz | and it'd be nice to have a nicer interface |
| 22:38.21 | SuperTaz | I'd take an Alias 6 interface |
| 22:38.27 | brlcad | there are other efforts also under way for a better interface |
| 22:38.31 | SuperTaz | or an explore interface |
| 22:38.39 | brlcad | for which archer is in the right direction, but not on the same path |
| 22:38.47 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 22:39.07 | SuperTaz | even the original softimage interface would be fine |
| 22:40.07 | SuperTaz | though I wasn't a huge fan of it...I preferred alias and explore...they used very little real estate for buttons and menus, but made it all available via context menu (explore) or via a single mode/button set (alias) |
| 22:40.09 | brlcad | it's a shame that mged's interface is so difficult (and ugly), because feature-wise, it does it a major disservice -- there are lots of things you can do in brl-cad that really are better than just about every other package |
| 22:40.26 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 22:40.33 | SuperTaz | I like its maturity |
| 22:40.41 | SuperTaz | but the interface is poo |
| 22:40.44 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:40.47 | SuperTaz | I've used a bunch of modellers |
| 22:40.52 | SuperTaz | some nearly as mature |
| 22:41.02 | SuperTaz | and they all have better interfaces |
| 22:41.51 | brlcad | they all have had entirely different development lifelines and budgets too ;) |
| 22:42.10 | SuperTaz | of course :) |
| 22:42.12 | brlcad | it wasn't really until brl-cad became open source that the interface became that much of an issue |
| 22:42.13 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Test.png <---- this took seconds |
| 22:42.27 | SuperTaz | but the military and then a commercial organization developed brl-cad |
| 22:42.47 | brlcad | commercial org? |
| 22:43.08 | WindowsDragon | well here goes nothing , brb on other machine soon holefully |
| 22:43.13 | SuperTaz | you'd think they'd have made an interface that was at least semi-user friendly |
| 22:43.20 | brlcad | it's never been unilaterally developed by a commercial org -- closest would have been GSI in the 90's but even their work was a partnership |
| 22:43.25 | SuperTaz | brl: didn't it it go private? |
| 22:43.30 | brlcad | nope |
| 22:43.37 | SuperTaz | oh...I thought GSI owned it for that period |
| 22:43.46 | SuperTaz | under contract to the gov't |
| 22:43.54 | SuperTaz | didn't realize it was a partnership |
| 22:44.11 | SuperTaz | cause I thought they made it commercially available in that period? |
| 22:44.13 | brlcad | no no, it's always remained under active development since it started |
| 22:44.27 | brlcad | you might be thinking of SURVICE Engineering |
| 22:44.46 | brlcad | as they provide commercial _support_ and have done so for many years |
| 22:44.54 | brlcad | you could buy a copy or brl-cad, and it'd come from them |
| 22:45.05 | brlcad | but it was the same version that we were making |
| 22:45.10 | SuperTaz | anyway, in 20+ years of development, you'd think it would have gotten an intuitive view menu, a sensible default view (X Y Z perspective) |
| 22:45.15 | SuperTaz | and a couple of other things |
| 22:45.22 | brlcad | they just built the binaries and put them on a disc for you |
| 22:45.27 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 22:45.36 | SuperTaz | I thought they also did some active development, too |
| 22:45.37 | brlcad | along with nice printed manuals and guaranteed support staff for answering your questiongs |
| 22:46.07 | brlcad | they do some development, still do even, but they participate just like anyone else in the open source arena now |
| 22:46.25 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 22:46.30 | SuperTaz | well, that's good, at least |
| 22:46.42 | brlcad | survice basically paid bob to work on archer for a couple years non-stop |
| 22:46.43 | SuperTaz | anyway, I'm sure it's possible to get it to look better |
| 22:46.49 | brlcad | that's why it got as far as it did |
| 22:46.49 | SuperTaz | ahhh...nice |
| 22:47.01 | brlcad | then they needed him on some other things |
| 22:47.09 | IriX64 | SuperTaz, do you want me to upload these binaries since you can't find them? |
| 22:47.26 | SuperTaz | irix: won't help me any...this is a mac :) |
| 22:47.27 | brlcad | SuperTaz: he meant for Mac, so probably not :) |
| 22:47.33 | IriX64 | ahh |
| 22:47.45 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:48.29 | brlcad | SuperTaz: you would think that a better interface would have cropped up, but the domain and demands of what everyone needs *right now* always overrule |
| 22:48.33 | SuperTaz | can't remember the shell command to start x on a mac |
| 22:48.47 | SuperTaz | brlcad: yeah, often the reality |
| 22:49.13 | brlcad | that is, the folks that pay for new development don't care if it's pretty or even if it's easy to use, so long as it can get the job done (which mged does splendidly most of the time) |
| 22:49.16 | SuperTaz | brlcad: sadly, it's been proven that a good interface makes for much more time |
| 22:49.20 | brlcad | open -a X11 |
| 22:49.24 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 22:49.42 | SuperTaz | ahhh |
| 22:49.46 | SuperTaz | thanks |
| 22:49.49 | brlcad | SuperTaz: oh, I know .. but saying it's proven doesn't pay for the new interface ;) |
| 22:50.03 | SuperTaz | I think I was thinking of a different command, but that works ;) |
| 22:50.19 | brlcad | no matter how many times you say it, how many graphs and time studies you do -- they need/want other features and time is limited |
| 22:50.25 | brlcad | so it's up to the open source community really |
| 22:50.44 | brlcad | where the economics go out the window mostly :) |
| 22:51.01 | SuperTaz | and then they'll rebundle it and make a killing ;) |
| 22:52.18 | brlcad | nah, at worst, they'd be like the gforgegroup is to gforge or like redhat is to the linux kernel -- a distributor for something that you can get for free, available for folks that want to pay for guaranteed support |
| 22:52.41 | SuperTaz | is brl-cad gpl? |
| 22:52.44 | SuperTaz | thought it was bsd? |
| 22:52.47 | brlcad | lgpl and bsd |
| 22:52.54 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 22:53.02 | brlcad | most of the code is lgpl |
| 22:53.05 | SuperTaz | so they can sell it for as much as they'd like :) |
| 22:53.26 | SuperTaz | and add their own customizations around it :) |
| 22:53.27 | brlcad | build infrastructure, docs, data resources, and some other portions like the benchmark suite are bsd |
| 22:53.39 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 22:54.01 | brlcad | that they could and so could you |
| 22:54.36 | brlcad | they wouldn't do anything in bad faith, though, they're a pretty good group |
| 22:55.19 | brlcad | and they'd sure as heck not want to risk any bad relationship with the gov't, they know who their daddy is |
| 22:55.26 | SuperTaz | okay...slowly fighting my way into the gui |
| 22:55.45 | SuperTaz | *nod* |
| 22:55.58 | SuperTaz | and yes, I know I could take it and spruce up the gui and sell it |
| 22:56.21 | SuperTaz | if I did that, though, a) I'd need some customers and b) I'd still contribute back ;) |
| 22:56.57 | IriX64 | SuperTaz, I just plat want my code, maybe you can make a killing with it :) |
| 22:57.02 | brlcad | you'd be obligated for most of the code, only your enhancements that weren't integrated would be yours to share or not |
| 22:57.02 | IriX64 | play not plat |
| 22:57.54 | SuperTaz | brlcad: yeah |
| 22:58.01 | SuperTaz | brlcad: not that I'm about to do so :) |
| 22:58.45 | SuperTaz | brlcad: but you can always do things like build a plugin harness that's lgpl, and then create plugins that are closed source or restricted distribution, etc. |
| 22:59.30 | SuperTaz | i.e. make the plugins GPL and distribute a commercial version of them as well (optimized and/or otherwise fortified) |
| 22:59.55 | SuperTaz | and then you just disallow commercial distribution of the plugins |
| 23:00.02 | SuperTaz | there are other licenses, too... |
| 23:00.05 | SuperTaz | *shrug* |
| 23:00.29 | brlcad | yeah, just not likely worth the effort and bad publicity if they didn't get a nod that it was okay beforehand |
| 23:00.30 | SuperTaz | the MySQL and Postgres model works pretty well...it allows them to pay developers AND leverage the community |
| 23:01.38 | brlcad | "pretty well" minus a little political backlash to the purists |
| 23:01.44 | poolio | muahaha. beset shall be closed source ;) |
| 23:01.51 | SuperTaz | so? |
| 23:01.59 | SuperTaz | the purists are great in theory |
| 23:02.18 | brlcad | more the poison aspects |
| 23:02.20 | SuperTaz | but you just see what happens if no one is paying for any software |
| 23:02.42 | SuperTaz | I love open source |
| 23:02.47 | SuperTaz | don't get me wrong |
| 23:02.58 | SuperTaz | I've contributed to several projects :) |
| 23:03.22 | SuperTaz | but...commercial interests drive a LOT of open source innovation |
| 23:03.51 | brlcad | it does, though commercial only tends to do so when it serves their financial goals in politically tactful ways |
| 23:04.14 | SuperTaz | sure |
| 23:04.40 | SuperTaz | but meeting customer demands (the users) is what makes sense for them financially (usually) |
| 23:04.52 | brlcad | still mostly moot for brl-cad -- the CAD industry is *already* a massive multi-billion dollar industry that takes utterly *massive* development capital just to get a basic functioning toolset |
| 23:05.44 | SuperTaz | yes, but brl-cad would probably have some decent market share if it had a more intuitive interface :) |
| 23:06.07 | brlcad | we're the farthest out there by a really long ways, with a funding source, and we're still way behind in many aspects -- entire massive domains we don't cater to (ECAD, MCAD, CADD, ..) well and features that one would expect outright of commercial (a reasonable gui) |
| 23:06.15 | SuperTaz | (sorry if I'm slow here...rebuilding my keyboard while we speak) |
| 23:06.29 | brlcad | yep, mged's interface is by far the biggest detriment to our progress at this point |
| 23:06.53 | SuperTaz | yes...it's be quite commercially viable with a solid interface |
| 23:07.00 | SuperTaz | it's, even :) |
| 23:07.17 | brlcad | that's why I'm looking to spark more development interest by getting talented students involved in making a new interfaces, new tools |
| 23:07.28 | SuperTaz | yeah, that'd be good |
| 23:07.32 | brlcad | open source community will follow once the gui is in place, just not readily beforehand |
| 23:07.35 | SuperTaz | are you in academia? |
| 23:07.58 | SuperTaz | yes...that's the thing...the open source community cares about gui for these things :) |
| 23:08.17 | brlcad | we have long ties to several big groups in academia, particularly computer graphics |
| 23:08.54 | SuperTaz | that's good |
| 23:09.06 | AchiestDragon | ok now back to only one graphics card in this machine , still got big bug with mged , is this documented with a workarround or do i need to file a bug report |
| 23:09.17 | SuperTaz | I could maybe get the depaul crowd interested...I'd have to figure out who to talk to, though |
| 23:09.46 | brlcad | UNC chapel hill, Hopkins, UUtah, Texas A&M, UDel, .. a lot of BRL-CAD's early design and development days were in tight collaboration with active research (and even today, there is some still going on) |
| 23:09.53 | SuperTaz | they're awfully microsoft oriented overall, but they have an okay HCI program, and this'd be up their alley |
| 23:09.54 | AchiestDragon | on a multihad display the frame buffer only works with the windows on one monitor |
| 23:10.52 | poolio | brlcad: anything from CMU? |
| 23:10.53 | brlcad | i would have *loved* to have known about BRL-CAD when I was taking computer graphics and other computer science courses in college |
| 23:11.02 | SuperTaz | okay... no delete key now, either :P |
| 23:11.14 | SuperTaz | I'd really better be careful what I type ;) |
| 23:12.21 | brlcad | poolio: yes actually |
| 23:12.44 | SuperTaz | I think that the problem here is less that the keyboard is dirty and more that kensington just didn't design it all that well |
| 23:12.48 | brlcad | iirc, he was a summer hire who later became a core developer for many years |
| 23:13.02 | poolio | brlcad: ah sweet |
| 23:13.22 | SuperTaz | hrmm...at least I have an enter key again ;) |
| 23:14.03 | brlcad | poolio: in that case, though, it was with the student, not with CMU faculty -- I don't think we have ties to anyone in their faculty bstaff right now |
| 23:15.00 | brlcad | the schools a listed were a subset of those where we actually worked with faculty too, on research or development |
| 23:15.36 | brlcad | there have certainly been other schools |
| 23:15.40 | poolio | ah cool |
| 23:15.56 | poolio | brlcad: are you trying to recruit people out of college now? |
| 23:16.22 | SuperTaz | it's the distinction between working with a student and a school |
| 23:16.36 | SuperTaz | brl...who do you actually work for? :) |
| 23:17.22 | brlcad | poolio: out of anywhere really, just need the passion, background, and interest ;) |
| 23:17.27 | AchiestDragon | ie like this shows http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Snap.jpg&oldid=610 it works on the righthand monitor only |
| 23:17.39 | poolio | brlcad: hehe yeah. |
| 23:24.06 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: heh, I think I noticed that a long while back too |
| 23:24.20 | brlcad | that's "probably" a Tk issue, but hard to say |
| 23:24.46 | AchiestDragon | maybe , i am using kde and it can be a bit odd sometimes on framebuffer issues |
| 23:25.08 | AchiestDragon | odd that its working on one monitor though |
| 23:25.25 | AchiestDragon | and all on the same card |
| 23:26.24 | AchiestDragon | think i am still going to have to reinstall linux as it does not seem ot have cleared the other issue |
| 23:26.38 | AchiestDragon | that may be part of the problem though |
| 23:33.35 | AchiestDragon | ho thats a point , on the gui , maybe it would be posible to write a qt4 frontends for the gui , you do know the new qt4 licence allows for gpl code to be compiled for all supported o/s's |
| 23:34.06 | AchiestDragon | so that should make it a bit easyer to do the crossplatform gui mods |
| 23:34.28 | AchiestDragon | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:36.31 | AchiestDragon | theres talk that most kde apps will get ported to windows when the qt4 port of kde is done |
| 23:36.53 | AchiestDragon | and mac . and a few other o/s's |
| 23:38.30 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: it's come up *lots* of times .. opens the whole qt vs gtk debate but certainly a viable approach nonetheless |
| 23:39.29 | brlcad | well aware of their licensing, though gpl is actually a downside imho -- sticking to bsd/mit/lgpl style code is generally more preferred |
| 23:40.03 | AchiestDragon | i started to learn qt3 but stopped as qt4 was dew and may as well wait for it rathe than having to relearn |
| 23:40.05 | brlcad | avoids integration and refactoring issues outright and generally keeps the purse-holders feeling a little more comfortable with themselves for some reason |
| 23:40.54 | SuperTaz | yeah, it was interesting doing linux kernel work at motorola |
| 23:42.08 | SuperTaz | we got it done, though...there was a balance we had to maintain between what was open source and what was closed |
| 23:42.16 | SuperTaz | it was interesting to say the least |
| 23:42.20 | yukonbob | AchiestDragon: your display issue sounds more like X than kde/gnome or a wm issue to me... depending on display properties, I've got apps that'll do that too (start mplayer on one screen and try to drag to other)... I'm using XOrg(6.x) witha MergedFB (versus Xinerama, for example) with no problems... |
| 23:43.42 | AchiestDragon | i think its an x issue also , as it basicaly apperears a bit odd with its own settings sometimes |
| 23:44.31 | AchiestDragon | now with the 2 card setup i had the same problem with xine only displaying video on the same monitor , but with 1 card it works fine on all |
| 23:44.51 | AchiestDragon | just mged seems to have the same problem still |
| 23:46.05 | AchiestDragon | i will reinstall , but not tonight , need to be in the right mood or will get ratty |
| 23:46.12 | yukonbob | :) |
| 23:48.01 | AchiestDragon | i have been putting it off , untill the next hdd upgrade , then can just do a fresh install and copy the files over after |
| 23:57.27 | *** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 23:57.27 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 01:01.11 | IriX64 | I'm playing around here :) http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/bldg391.png |
| 01:25.16 | IriX64 | I know you guys don't do windows, but did anybody try that windowsirssi.zip, it's the unix code. |
| 01:26.16 | IriX64 | no perl, but still, not bad |
| 01:37.03 | IriX64 | I deleted it doh wait |
| 01:40.27 | IriX64 | windowsirssi-0.8.11.zip |
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| 05:02.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: doxygenify, check for null dereferencing |
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| 06:30.10 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: The navigation in the psd image you sent me is different to that of the sitemap.txt - which should I be basing the navigation on? |
| 07:01.50 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: not exactly |
| 07:02.04 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: look at the second line |
| 07:03.17 | brlcad | it would probably start out with no tabs depressed (as that's "Home" and where the logo takes you) |
| 07:05.52 | brlcad | the other categories will still be a part of the site, just not necessarily on the "titlebar menu" .. the sitemap would probably be hidden down below for example, no need to have that up front and center |
| 07:16.05 | brlcad | yeah, probably should have explained that earlier -- those two lines up top starting with Home were two main menus i was pondering over, the rest below are sections of the site and what goes into each section. some sections are best as blocks that lead to sections, others are menu items, others can be tiny links/sections/items/whatever just reachable from somewhere |
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| 10:50.48 | IriX64 | Laniakea: http://irix32.apaces.live.com/photos |
| 10:51.22 | IriX64 | err http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 10:55.15 | Laniakea | IriX64: did you render the pictures yourself? |
| 10:55.27 | IriX64 | no those are from twibright |
| 10:55.49 | IriX64 | err the other albumn is done here |
| 10:56.03 | Laniakea | IriX64: are you a brl-cad developer? |
| 10:56.17 | IriX64 | i don't draw though those are all examples included in brl-cad |
| 10:56.31 | IriX64 | heh me no, i just play |
| 10:57.08 | IriX64 | try http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos |
| 10:58.24 | IriX64 | somebody gave me a little goody to do hex bolts, wait i'll upload it |
| 11:00.15 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 it'd called hex.c |
| 11:00.19 | IriX64 | it's too |
| 11:03.17 | IriX64 | works i think |
| 11:05.26 | IriX64 | Laniakea, you asked me, now i'll ask you, are you a brl-cad developer? |
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| 11:42.15 | Laniakea | IriX64: no I'm not |
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| 12:13.45 | poolio | mornin |
| 12:14.13 | IriX64 | morning poolio |
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| 12:51.03 | poolio | brlcad: I could use a pointer or two when you get back |
| 13:11.28 | brlcad | poolio: sure, what's up? |
| 13:12.10 | poolio | brlcad: I'm trying to work out how I'm going to store the geometry trees/modify/save/crossover/etc... |
| 13:12.51 | brlcad | lots of ways to do it.. |
| 13:12.58 | poolio | I see that you can use db_walk_tree to get each geometry item from a combination, but is there a way to preserve the order? |
| 13:13.20 | poolio | brlcad: yes I know, I can't really decide. I was hoping to just use the internal trees and have to use say a red-black or other binary tree |
| 13:14.03 | poolio | My main issue is somehow extracting the internal graph (i think it was?) into a tree form that I can easily modify |
| 13:22.51 | poolio | So I basically I want to work with rt_*_internal as leaf nodes, and whatever the internal operator structure is for the other nodes |
| 13:26.15 | brlcad | poolio: hmmm |
| 13:26.35 | brlcad | well for starters, you hopefully saw the tree structures in raytrace.h |
| 13:27.06 | poolio | Yeah |
| 13:27.16 | brlcad | rt_comb_internal's (i.e. combination objects()) have a union tree * in them (called tree) that is their hierarchy |
| 13:27.22 | poolio | I've looked around with db_walk_tree, but that isn't what I want, although I might write my own version |
| 13:28.19 | brlcad | I mean just the containers that already exist |
| 13:28.44 | poolio | what? |
| 13:28.51 | brlcad | union tree * in particular, which is what most of the code uses internally for the tree structure |
| 13:29.16 | poolio | oh alright, and are there functions to traverse that tree other than db_walk_tree? |
| 13:29.53 | brlcad | yeah, there are like three or four ways to walk |
| 13:30.26 | poolio | oh alright. and are there implemented functions for copying subparts of one tree to another? |
| 13:30.28 | brlcad | db_functree() is another |
| 13:30.54 | poolio | Oh wow. I somehow missed db_walk.c |
| 13:31.52 | brlcad | yeah, that's a good file as well as db_comb.c |
| 13:32.12 | brlcad | routines like db_flatten_tree() might be of use |
| 13:32.15 | poolio | ok. So I'm going to try to keep it in a union tree and modify it from there |
| 13:32.19 | poolio | what's that do? |
| 13:32.43 | brlcad | flattens the tree and puts all the elements into an array |
| 13:32.49 | poolio | in what order? |
| 13:33.00 | brlcad | jeez, I don't remember :) |
| 13:33.06 | poolio | ok ok. I'll have a looksy |
| 13:33.21 | brlcad | preorder traversal if I had to guess |
| 13:35.17 | poolio | and it should always be tree_db_leaf in my case? |
| 13:35.48 | brlcad | ? |
| 13:36.08 | poolio | the type of node for the tree? |
| 13:36.13 | poolio | I think it is, oh well, I shall see. |
| 13:37.19 | brlcad | no no, it's still the whole tree, but stored in a (more) simple array container |
| 13:37.38 | brlcad | so you could iterate over all tree elements without actually worrying about traversing the tree |
| 13:37.52 | poolio | wait, what ar eyou referencing? |
| 13:38.11 | brlcad | i'm not saying that's the way to go, you'd have to figure out what the order was to see if it could be used directly for cross-over for example |
| 13:38.26 | brlcad | was talking about flatten tree |
| 13:38.34 | poolio | oh yeah, I think I'm going to avoid using it |
| 13:38.46 | poolio | It'd be easiest of I could just keep the tree structure and just work off of that |
| 13:42.03 | brlcad | you should be able to I'd think |
| 13:42.42 | poolio | Yeah thanks, I was just a bit overwhelmed :P |
| 13:42.58 | brlcad | count nodes in A, count nodes in B, pick crossover points for both, swap the links in their respective union tree's, write out the new trees |
| 13:44.33 | poolio | I don't see why you need to count nodes, but it's simple enough |
| 13:45.59 | brlcad | strictly speaking you don't |
| 13:46.11 | brlcad | just one means to "pick a crossover point" |
| 13:46.34 | poolio | yep. hopefully I'll get a chance to try some of the many ways to do each thing |
| 13:46.40 | brlcad | rand from 0 to the node count or something |
| 13:47.37 | poolio | does union tree store any info about it's internal state? like # of nodes, or anything? |
| 13:50.04 | brlcad | no no, it's just a tree structure |
| 13:50.37 | poolio | db_tree_nleaves() :D |
| 13:51.54 | brlcad | yep, though that's leave nodes only |
| 13:52.00 | brlcad | s/leave/leaf/ |
| 13:53.25 | brlcad | would be pretty simple to add another for counting comb nodes or all nodes |
| 13:54.18 | poolio | well |
| 13:55.03 | poolio | yeah, I'd actually probably count operators, not leaves |
| 14:12.36 | poolio | brlcad: I'm gonna just get the design down on paper, I just need to clear it up in my head before I start coding. I'll be on the porch :) |
| 14:28.56 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Okay, I get it - thanks for the clarification. |
| 14:47.29 | AchiestDragon | http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Brlcad-editor.jpg&oldid=611 hmm? instructions anyone ? |
| 14:49.10 | IriX64 | a thing of beauty :) |
| 14:49.48 | IriX64 | as for instructions i'm outta my depth |
| 14:51.50 | AchiestDragon | well i can desing qt gui's , but still to actual figure out how to get the buttons to actualy link to functioning code |
| 14:53.20 | IriX64 | switch(msg1) { case button1: that type of thing? |
| 14:53.47 | AchiestDragon | i was looking at using pyqt to conver the gui to python code so i can get to link it to other code modules |
| 14:54.10 | IriX64 | man i know nothing about python, sorry |
| 14:54.21 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron_ (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron) | |
| 14:54.37 | AchiestDragon | but there always seems to be eric issues in suse ,and dependancy problems with the python tools for qt |
| 14:55.02 | IriX64 | you have your plate full then |
| 14:56.31 | IriX64 | qt stands for? |
| 14:56.37 | AchiestDragon | well as i need to reinstall i happen to have a spare 80gb sata drive , thinking of puting the alpha version of kde4 and setting it up dual boot so i can get started at learning qt4 |
| 14:57.23 | dtidrow | IriX64: qt is a gui library |
| 14:57.27 | AchiestDragon | http://trolltech.com/products/qt |
| 14:57.34 | dtidrow | yeah, that one ;-) |
| 14:57.38 | IriX64 | I don't play with dual boot anymore, learned my lesson |
| 14:57.45 | AchiestDragon | its what kde is written in |
| 14:57.51 | dtidrow | pure linux now, eh? ;-) |
| 14:58.44 | AchiestDragon | well dual boot when theres no windos is not realy a problem , and with 2 diferent linux installs its not so bad |
| 14:59.58 | IriX64 | qt=leading edge technology obviously |
| 15:00.08 | IriX64 | i'm of the old school |
| 15:00.27 | IriX64 | in other words i wouldn't know what to do with it :) |
| 15:00.58 | IriX64 | by your standards i'm running a toy system |
| 15:01.30 | AchiestDragon | its rather than using tk |
| 15:02.37 | AchiestDragon | or gtk |
| 15:02.38 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 15:02.46 | IriX64_ | rough ride |
| 15:02.59 | IriX64_ | i run windowsxppro with cygwin |
| 15:03.34 | MinuteElectron | IriX64_: You use cygwin. You wouldn't have happened to encounter this error: |
| 15:03.36 | MinuteElectron | configure: creating ./config.status |
| 15:03.37 | MinuteElectron | .infig.status: error: cannot find input file: |
| 15:03.50 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to extract a tree from a given rt_i? |
| 15:03.58 | dtidrow | I haven't tested it yet, but I'm convinced that you take a heathly hit for doing it that way |
| 15:04.17 | IriX64 | minuteelectron ive never encountered that |
| 15:04.27 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:04.37 | IriX64 | log in config.log |
| 15:04.41 | IriX64 | look too |
| 15:04.49 | AchiestDragon | im trying to dich using any M$ product , i now only need windows for 3 applications ,, protel dxp , autocad , and kcam (my cnc software ) |
| 15:05.25 | poolio | brlcad: Ah I think I found it, ugh. Need to stop asking questions and start coding :) |
| 15:05.49 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: ok |
| 15:06.08 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon converting for me would be a learning curve so i get my feet wet here :) |
| 15:07.20 | AchiestDragon | well have been using linux on and of since 1995 but only did a total swich on my main pc's about 4 years ago now , |
| 15:08.16 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon, see for you (now) it's easy for me it would be sink or swim although I admit theres rich documentation |
| 15:08.19 | AchiestDragon | i have one machine with win2000 on that i use for protel dxp , and cad stuff , but do eveything else in linux |
| 15:08.24 | dtidrow | gotta head into work - later all... |
| 15:09.29 | IriX64 | pays to have multiple machines, I guess but i'm not privy to the others in this house, they belong to the children :) |
| 15:10.44 | IriX64 | I kind of like what I've got actually, unix high on windows ;) |
| 15:11.07 | AchiestDragon | yes , if it was not for the fact i have windows installed on one machine i would be clustering them |
| 15:11.22 | MinuteElectron | Ha, this is useful the last line of config.log says 'configure: exit 1'. Now that would suggest success... |
| 15:11.48 | IriX64 | errr I think it signifies an error return :) |
| 15:11.59 | IriX64 | brb |
| 15:13.11 | poolio | MinuteElectron: not neccesarily |
| 15:13.51 | MinuteElectron | hmm... |
| 15:14.42 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron does it say failed anywhere |
| 15:16.29 | MinuteElectron | yes 'configure: failed program was: |
| 15:16.31 | MinuteElectron | ' |
| 15:16.45 | MinuteElectron | | /* confdefs.h. */ |
| 15:16.50 | MinuteElectron | hmm, |
| 15:17.16 | IriX64 | check configure.ac |
| 15:17.25 | IriX64 | output stuff |
| 15:17.44 | MinuteElectron | Ok, the same failed linesaying 'confdefs.h' appears several times. |
| 15:18.14 | IriX64 | thats normal i think depending what test it was doing |
| 15:19.07 | IriX64 | back to my compile |
| 15:22.07 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/ZhYegJ57.html <---anybody interested in warnings like these |
| 15:25.39 | poolio | IriX64: Not interested, but it's not good I think. Keep it on file :) |
| 15:36.27 | IriX64 | :) |
| 15:36.38 | IriX64 | i'll fix my copy :) |
| 15:52.37 | IriX64 | AchiestDragon: Is Mr. Chips available in toy version, I know plenty of children who would have a ball with such |
| 15:54.10 | poolio | brlcad: I'm trying to figure out how to extract a struct rt_db_internal and can't seem to figure out how. I've got the soltab and looked through the rt_functab but didn't see anything |
| 16:09.46 | poolio | Or I guess I don't really need rt_db_internal, can I just modify the soltab shape specific data and then write that? |
| 16:11.16 | *** join/#brlcad LostThePlot_ (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 16:16.52 | *** join/#brlcad iday (n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:25.06 | poolio | brlcad: hmm, the soltab is just in memory isn't it... |
| 16:34.23 | poolio | mannn.... that was a huge waste of time |
| 16:34.39 | poolio | lunch time |
| 16:43.47 | AchiestDragon | well ok , just about to start reinstalling linux see if i can cure this x problem |
| 17:13.49 | IriX64 | got the guy who wrote hex.c to at least add his first name soproper credit is there. |
| 17:15.57 | IriX64 | I've run it but have no need for bolts here :) |
| 17:52.41 | SuperTaz | heh |
| 17:53.22 | SuperTaz | by a show of hands, who thinks it'd be a nice feature if left clicking a pane in mged activated it... |
| 17:55.27 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: interesting gui mockup -- that entirely using qt? |
| 17:56.17 | AchiestDragon | using kdevelop gui designer |
| 17:56.29 | poolio | brlcad: got a couple minutes? |
| 18:00.13 | brlcad | poolio: sure |
| 18:00.32 | poolio | brlcad: alright, i've been struggling quite a bit this morning :P |
| 18:01.24 | poolio | brlcad: So I first saw that rt_i has all the information I need, so I was looking through that, found the Regions and the soltab and stuff, but then I realized I have no clue how I can then "save" those changes back to a databse file |
| 18:01.26 | brlcad | no problem with that, struggling is when learning happens :P |
| 18:01.35 | poolio | Heh, true |
| 18:02.03 | poolio | So then I was looking at trying to get the rt_db_internal structures and couldn't figure out a way to do that, but just found the wdb_import and looks like I can retrieve shapes by ID |
| 18:02.21 | brlcad | yep |
| 18:02.26 | poolio | But the main thing was writing the changes to a database, and trying to find an internal structure I could use that is easy to work with and modify but also easy to write to a database |
| 18:02.52 | poolio | Like for example, the union trees, they seem easy to work with especially in just swapping pointers to do crossover, but I don't see a way to write those changed trees to a database |
| 18:03.25 | poolio | and with the rt_i it look slike I'd have to have re-run rt_prep for every single shape to get access to the soltab and stuff I need, and I still didn't know how to then export that |
| 18:04.08 | poolio | Then I thought about just using Tcl, there's routines to convert geometry to tcl, then i can modify the tcl string, and then there are routines to execute the tcl string and output it to a databse |
| 18:04.13 | poolio | but that seems awfully inefficient and slow |
| 18:04.38 | poolio | and crossover would be a bit more though in tcl |
| 18:05.33 | brlcad | you'd think it was inefficient, but in the big scheme of things it still isn't a blip |
| 18:05.53 | brlcad | not that I think that's the way to do it .. just saying you shouldn't assume it's not the way because of performance |
| 18:06.29 | poolio | Ok. but I'd still prefer working with the union trees. Those are easy to deal with, although the encapsulation of soltab is kidn fo gone |
| 18:06.30 | brlcad | let me see if I can find an example that helps |
| 18:07.12 | poolio | Yeah that'd be great, I've been browsing through a bunch of examples but I couldn't find any that would work well when directly applied. I was also thinking about keeping things in a wmember list but it looked like going wmember --> tree created a "left-heavy" tree and I had no clue what GIFT schematics were |
| 18:07.17 | poolio | *semantics |
| 18:07.23 | poolio | couldn't find anything on google about those |
| 18:08.14 | brlcad | too generic a term to find info on gift via google ;) |
| 18:08.23 | brlcad | though I'm sure there's something out there |
| 18:08.26 | poolio | well I found what the acronym meant in relation to brl-cad, but still couldnt find it |
| 18:08.41 | brlcad | it's mostly unimportant |
| 18:08.52 | poolio | alright |
| 18:09.03 | brlcad | just a particular way of storing geometry and fields that it needs to keep track of |
| 18:09.06 | poolio | alright |
| 18:09.18 | brlcad | like the GIFTmater string is really just an integer material id |
| 18:09.30 | poolio | well what I really needed help with was finding some way that if I modified the soltab / pointers in a union tree, a way of saving that tree to a new database, and probably copying all the primitives along with it |
| 18:11.04 | poolio | also I'd like to keep the trees in memory in between generatons and not have to re-read the previous database every time |
| 18:11.34 | brlcad | I still have to poke around and make sure, but I can say that to write out geometry you need a primitive |
| 18:12.00 | brlcad | primitives with respect to operators means writing out combinations |
| 18:12.06 | poolio | Well yes sorry |
| 18:12.07 | brlcad | combinations are rt_comb_internal objects |
| 18:12.51 | brlcad | so that's your starting point no matter what in terms of saving geometry unless you recreate a hierarchy from scratch each time using mk_comb |
| 18:13.02 | poolio | alright. so an rt_comb_internal object |
| 18:13.10 | poolio | that's created by mk_lcomb() right? |
| 18:13.35 | poolio | well whatever, I can find that later |
| 18:13.39 | brlcad | mk_lcomb() will make a new one for you .. all the mk_ routines are part of libwdb for creating geometry |
| 18:13.50 | poolio | ok |
| 18:13.57 | brlcad | you're talking about reading an existing, though, and then writing that out, which is not mk_* |
| 18:14.00 | SuperTaz | AchiestDragon: was that image of the editor a mockup, or does it really work? |
| 18:14.10 | yukonbob | poolio: does this make sense to you? |
| 18:14.12 | yukonbob | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_wrapping_algorithm |
| 18:14.34 | yukonbob | s/to you/for what you're doing/ |
| 18:14.34 | poolio | yukonbob: wrong topic I think :P |
| 18:15.04 | AchiestDragon | SuperTaz: its a a proper gui just no code behind the menus or buttons |
| 18:15.12 | poolio | brlcad: Yes. Well I guess I can write that out with wdb_put_internal? |
| 18:15.24 | SuperTaz | is it in Tk? |
| 18:15.38 | AchiestDragon | no qt3.5 |
| 18:15.44 | SuperTaz | oh |
| 18:15.52 | yukonbob | AchiestDragon: do you have a screenshot posted? |
| 18:15.52 | SuperTaz | isn't qt commercial? |
| 18:15.57 | brlcad | poolio: that sounds about right, lemme look |
| 18:16.12 | poolio | that needs an rt_db_internal struct |
| 18:16.52 | brlcad | which is what you get during a lookup |
| 18:16.57 | brlcad | among a variety of places |
| 18:17.04 | brlcad | yeah, wdb_put_internal looks right |
| 18:17.07 | poolio | ok |
| 18:17.14 | AchiestDragon | qt is commertial but is avalable for free use if you use it for gpl code |
| 18:17.32 | poolio | so basically each individual will be an rt_comb_internal, and I'll be able to modify the tree held in that struct, and write it with wdb_put_internal? |
| 18:18.00 | brlcad | poolio: er, sorry, rt_db_get_internal |
| 18:18.10 | brlcad | which takes a directory pointer, which you get during lookup |
| 18:18.35 | poolio | the directory pointer points to the object in the database which is our combination? |
| 18:18.35 | brlcad | you can crack a rt_db_internal to get at the rt_comb_internal it contains when it's a combination |
| 18:19.07 | brlcad | right, just directory pointers don't actually load geometry (for performance), they load basically an index reference |
| 18:19.14 | poolio | yeah alright |
| 18:19.33 | SuperTaz | achiest: but not BSD or LGPL, right? |
| 18:19.49 | AchiestDragon | right |
| 18:20.04 | SuperTaz | what's the current license for mged? isn't it LGPL/BSD hybrid? |
| 18:20.21 | AchiestDragon | but it would not stop a gpl gui frontend beeing written |
| 18:20.28 | SuperTaz | (looks good, btw) |
| 18:20.31 | SuperTaz | no, it wouldn't |
| 18:20.48 | brlcad | not a hybrid, it's lgpl |
| 18:21.02 | SuperTaz | if you build a 4 pane view into it, it'll be even better |
| 18:21.25 | poolio | brlcad: or I could use wdb_import to get the rt_db_internal right? |
| 18:21.27 | brlcad | bsd is the documentation, build system, and data files |
| 18:21.33 | SuperTaz | I'm pondering making some similar changes to mged itself |
| 18:21.52 | brlcad | poolio: probably, I think it just does the two-step for you |
| 18:21.59 | poolio | yeah |
| 18:22.27 | poolio | and the idb_ptr is goign to be the pointer to the rt_comb_internal ? |
| 18:22.33 | poolio | Yeah, looks that way, sweet :) |
| 18:23.07 | brlcad | you can access it directly, but I believe there's a routine you should call to crack it :) |
| 18:23.24 | poolio | wait, what do you mean? |
| 18:23.37 | poolio | The main issue I was having this morning was all the circularly linked pointers to every which structure |
| 18:23.44 | SuperTaz | I'd really like to get a context menu working, get click to activate working, and get the console at the bottom of the window...those 3 would make mged a lot more user-friendly :) |
| 18:24.41 | poolio | brlcad: also, is there a way to duplicate the rt_db_internal structure? |
| 18:25.13 | brlcad | SuperTaz: if you find the code that the menu calls when you ask it to activate a pane, you should be able to add that to the window bindings |
| 18:25.33 | SuperTaz | I'm working on it...I've found the code already |
| 18:25.38 | brlcad | ah, sweet |
| 18:25.42 | SuperTaz | I'm just trying to find the window bindings :) |
| 18:25.50 | SuperTaz | and then figure out how they work :) |
| 18:31.14 | brlcad | if you do, would you let me know? |
| 18:33.03 | brlcad | AchiestDragon: that mockup image is actually kinda familiar .. did you do that several months ago? |
| 18:33.30 | AchiestDragon | no , i did it today |
| 18:35.30 | brlcad | hrm, okay |
| 18:35.34 | brlcad | deja vu |
| 18:37.09 | SuperTaz | heh...I'll let you know once I figure it out |
| 18:37.25 | SuperTaz | I spent an hour last night learning how activation works...it's really pretty simple |
| 18:37.45 | SuperTaz | I just haven't had any time to look at the bindings :) |
| 18:57.35 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.40 | poolio | errr oops |
| 19:00.56 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: apache changes made |
| 19:25.51 | brlcad | should check for includes now |
| 19:38.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: thanks |
| 19:41.43 | SuperTaz | blah |
| 19:41.59 | SuperTaz | I'm trying to see if eclipse will play nice as a tcl/tk editor |
| 19:42.19 | SuperTaz | I still haven't figured out where the bindings are |
| 19:42.43 | SuperTaz | though I'm learning more and more about how mged does what it does |
| 19:45.14 | SuperTaz | I think I understand why I'm not finding this stuff |
| 19:46.36 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: not to interfere, but I noticed the menu and was poking on some values in the style :) |
| 19:46.57 | brlcad | looking good |
| 19:47.00 | brlcad | really good |
| 19:47.18 | brlcad | getting excited to start populating it |
| 19:47.27 | MinuteElectron | dw, I don't mind |
| 19:48.16 | MinuteElectron | I just need to finish the navigation, make some general styling (e.g. the headers and hyperlinks) and add some padding to the main content area. Then it will be good to go, |
| 19:49.43 | poolio | MinuteElectron/brlcad: link? |
| 19:49.51 | MinuteElectron | http://my.brlcad.org |
| 19:50.06 | poolio | oh, it's already _there_ :P |
| 19:50.52 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, installed MediaWiki and Drupal on the server last night and copied the theme across. |
| 19:53.41 | SuperTaz | well, the header is there, at least :) |
| 19:54.09 | SuperTaz | looks good |
| 19:54.57 | MinuteElectron | thxxs |
| 19:55.04 | MinuteElectron | most of the work was brlcad though. |
| 19:55.21 | SuperTaz | ahhh, well, it still looks good :) |
| 19:55.35 | brlcad | was not, I just photoshopped a little -- that's the easy part |
| 19:55.44 | SuperTaz | of course, the rest of the template still need to be done :) |
| 19:55.44 | brlcad | turning that into css is the bear |
| 19:55.50 | brlcad | poolio: keep whining :) |
| 19:56.08 | brlcad | but that won't go so far, effort speaks louder than words :) |
| 19:56.22 | brlcad | mock up a better menu :) |
| 19:56.43 | SuperTaz | I won't complain about the navbar, simply because I haven't seen what the body is going to look like |
| 19:56.57 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah, I'm kind of busy ;) |
| 19:57.12 | SuperTaz | once I see the content area, I'll weigh in on design ;) |
| 19:57.24 | SuperTaz | but the header still looks good ;) |
| 19:57.26 | brlcad | me too, and I like it .. so without something better, it's the winner |
| 19:58.12 | brlcad | SuperTaz: quite true |
| 19:58.23 | brlcad | the header is only one piece of a much bigger design |
| 19:58.41 | brlcad | there's still the overall look/feel, how blocks look, the content area, the footer |
| 19:58.46 | SuperTaz | yes, and I'm not going to judge until I've seen more...then I'll weigh in on usability, aesthetics, etc. |
| 19:59.46 | SuperTaz | despite popular belief, aesthetics are a significant part of usability, at least if you evaluate it based on cognition |
| 20:00.44 | SuperTaz | and since you want people to be able to navigate the site to get their answers, it needs to be aesthetically pleasing to help them do a better job of navigating |
| 20:24.45 | MinuteElectron | w00t look at nav everyone!!! |
| 20:26.12 | brlcad | nice, got the corner :) |
| 20:26.33 | brlcad | your color is off just a hair :) |
| 20:27.09 | MinuteElectron | what? |
| 20:27.28 | MinuteElectron | no it isn't |
| 20:28.43 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 20:29.44 | brlcad | you see it? |
| 20:29.57 | MinuteElectron | no |
| 20:30.48 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/hair.png |
| 20:31.12 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, not getting that on my end, |
| 20:31.25 | MinuteElectron | Maybe my monitor doesn't have enough colors. |
| 20:31.28 | brlcad | then the png is probably missing gamma correction or something |
| 20:31.40 | MinuteElectron | How many bits is your monitor? |
| 20:32.45 | brlcad | 32-bit |
| 20:33.53 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 20:33.57 | MinuteElectron | which browser? |
| 20:37.20 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 20:38.47 | brlcad | safari |
| 20:41.22 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, this is very odd. What screen resolution are you on? |
| 20:42.04 | brlcad | 1680x1050 |
| 20:42.51 | brlcad | it's almost guaranteed just a gamma issue |
| 20:43.09 | brlcad | firefox isn't the best at applying gamma correction |
| 20:43.18 | MinuteElectron | I have no idea, I also have no idea what gamma correction is. When you get a moment would you kindly add it to the image 'corner.png' please. thanks. |
| 20:43.32 | brlcad | heh :) |
| 20:47.09 | Laniakea | issues with gamma correction are guranteed as long as people stay ignorant having no clue what the digital numbers stored in their files are supposed to mean |
| 20:47.16 | AchiestDragon | well sort of resolved the x problem and mged works fine , it seems that the g200 quad head card is not quite fully supported in x , so just using 2 monitors and the dual head g550 |
| 20:49.00 | Laniakea | The picture hair.png has no gamma chunk present, so the gamma is assumed to be 0.454545 |
| 20:49.16 | AchiestDragon | down side smaller desktop size only 3200 * 1200 |
| 20:49.22 | Laniakea | However it has an ICC profile |
| 21:02.54 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I think there is a problem, the htaccess file in /d/ isn't working - perhaps you could chown the /d/ directory to www - I seam to be unable to. |
| 21:05.44 | MinuteElectron | I have to go, be back tomorrow. |
| 21:11.21 | brlcad | alright, I'll look at ait |
| 21:11.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: attempting to debug edge_check code; added return states for edge check; removed some dead code |
| 21:13.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: fix bug where search domains are unordered; tried 'adaptive' chord sampling |
| 21:15.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: played with the chord tolerance and derivative tolerance (need to change it to tangent!) |
| 22:54.55 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-76-23-44-107.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
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| 01:17.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: quell more compilation warnings, thx IriX64 |
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| 06:19.37 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Any luck? |
| 06:20.12 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: hm? |
| 06:20.34 | brlcad | oh, /d, right |
| 06:22.54 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 06:23.14 | MinuteElectron | Also /w |
| 06:37.50 | MinuteElectron | I have to go, bbl. |
| 06:43.25 | brlcad | should be fixed now |
| 06:43.36 | brlcad | that directory index was screwing up their index |
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| 07:42.07 | *** part/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) | |
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| 12:47.44 | poolio | mornin |
| 13:08.21 | brlcad | howdy |
| 13:11.26 | poolio | hopefully today will be more productive than the last |
| 13:15.41 | AchiestDragon | hi |
| 13:20.07 | poolio | brlcad: do Ineed to worry about backwards compatibility? |
| 13:34.36 | poolio | brlcad: also, if I call rt_db_put_internal on a combination, will all elements of that combination be copied or do I need to copy those by hand? |
| 13:35.32 | brlcad | backwards compatibility with what? |
| 13:35.44 | poolio | brlcad: previous database versions |
| 13:35.54 | brlcad | oh, you mean v4 |
| 13:35.57 | poolio | yeah |
| 13:35.59 | brlcad | no, screw that |
| 13:36.03 | poolio | hurrah |
| 13:36.03 | poolio | also |
| 13:36.34 | brlcad | as for rt_db_put_internal .. that writes out one object |
| 13:36.39 | poolio | if I want to insert an internal db object from one database into another, do I call rt_db_put_internal with the db_i and directory of the database I want it to be inserted into and the internal object of the object I want insreted? |
| 13:36.41 | brlcad | one node of the hiearchy |
| 13:36.56 | poolio | brlcad: well, it writes out the combination right? |
| 13:37.01 | brlcad | right |
| 13:37.20 | brlcad | but a combination is a name, and references to a handful of objects with operators |
| 13:37.21 | poolio | is the right to the inserting an object or that it's a combination? |
| 13:37.39 | poolio | brlcad: Alright, so I just need to throw in a db_walk routine that will copy over each solid? |
| 13:37.57 | brlcad | if the other db doesn't have the objects below that hierarchy, yes |
| 13:38.48 | poolio | and what about carrying internal objects between different databases? |
| 13:39.17 | brlcad | e.g. consider the simple tree A1 -> B1 u C1 B1 -> D1 u E1 C1, D1, & E1 are all prims |
| 13:39.36 | poolio | brlcad: Yes I understand all that |
| 13:40.11 | poolio | and B1 would also have to be copied? |
| 13:40.14 | brlcad | if you swap out B1 with a new B2 that looks like B2 -> F2 u A1 .. you'd have to also write out F2 separately but not A1 |
| 13:40.22 | poolio | yep |
| 13:43.17 | brlcad | so yeah, you'll want to do a db_functree on the hierarchy, seeing if you need to copy over any of the nodes |
| 13:43.27 | brlcad | subhierarchy |
| 13:51.47 | poolio | alright |
| 14:22.23 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Thanks. |
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| 14:46.53 | TME | brlcad: TME here again, got things basically working, I have two questions: |
| 14:47.17 | TME | 1) what are the differences between regions and combinations |
| 14:47.51 | TME | (It seems that combinations are a superset of regions, ie a region is a combination) is this correct? |
| 14:48.30 | TME | 2) I have to do point queries, ie find a cell (region) given (x,y,z) I am doing this with shootray and ap.a_onehit = 1 |
| 14:48.36 | TME | Is this the best way? |
| 14:49.12 | TME | Thanks for any help. If you want (or care ;)) I can send you my C++ class that does these basic tasks using brlcad |
| 14:49.51 | TME | So far, the software is working great, I'm just not sure if I am implementing things in the optimal way |
| 14:50.16 | TME | However, this is a prototype proof-of-principle task, so we should be able to provide some resources for you to look things |
| 14:50.27 | TME | over if everything goes through all right |
| 15:21.30 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to rename a shape without changing it's name in a tree using that shape? |
| 16:46.39 | *** join/#brlcad mec_guy (n=chatzill@59.95.35.161) | |
| 16:47.08 | mec_guy | hello world |
| 16:48.20 | mec_guy | does anybody know of a chat room 4 mech engg and also d server |
| 17:14.46 | archivist | try full english words so we can direct you |
| 17:22.59 | mec_guy | can you tell me of ca channel for Mechanical Engineers and I-DEAS users and also the server on which it is hosted? |
| 17:24.29 | archivist | this chan has a few mechanical engineers and so does #emc also on freenode |
| 17:25.01 | brlcad | TME: yes, regions are a subset of combinations |
| 17:25.12 | brlcad | code-wise, they're just a flag set on regions |
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| 17:25.27 | brlcad | bah I mean code-wise, they're just a flag set on combinations that makes them a region |
| 17:26.06 | brlcad | what that means in practice though, by making a region, is that the entire hierarchy below is a given material |
| 17:26.57 | brlcad | that's where it goes from being just a "collection" or "shape" to being actually solid material with interaction properties, issues with overlaps and effects on the shotline returned |
| 17:27.59 | TME | brlcad: I noticed that db_flags = 6 for regions, is it the same for combinations? |
| 17:29.04 | brlcad | if you walk the DAG (directed acyclic graph) for the CSG hierarchy, there should be one and only one region along any traversal down the hierarchy used as a positive shape (i.e. a union, it's okay to have other regions underneath that are subtracted) |
| 17:29.56 | brlcad | in CAD parlance, regions loosely correlate with parts, combinations/groups above the region level would generally be called assemblies |
| 17:33.58 | brlcad | TME: db_flags? |
| 17:34.11 | brlcad | oh, you mean like db_get_internal_flags()? |
| 17:34.27 | brlcad | no, not the smae |
| 17:34.32 | brlcad | that's a bitmask |
| 17:34.49 | brlcad | see raytrace.h, look for DIR_COMB |
| 17:35.00 | brlcad | regions are DIR_COMB | DIR_REGION |
| 17:35.09 | brlcad | combinations are just DIR_COMB (i.e. 2) |
| 17:35.31 | Laniakea | brlcad: is it possible to design architecture in BRL-CAD? |
| 17:35.56 | brlcad | should use the symbolic instead of the number too, even though it likely wouldn't change unless the major number changed (release 8.*) |
| 17:36.11 | brlcad | Laniakea: sure it's possible |
| 17:36.20 | brlcad | depends on the type of building and the design purpose |
| 17:36.48 | Laniakea | brlcad: how do I place say 19 cylindrical pillars into a ring? |
| 17:37.07 | Laniakea | in a ring |
| 17:37.18 | brlcad | pattern tool |
| 17:37.21 | brlcad | Tools menu |
| 17:37.23 | Laniakea | good |
| 17:37.32 | brlcad | there's a tab for cylindrical |
| 17:38.15 | TME | brlcad: sorry I meant d_flags (a member of struct directory) |
| 17:38.16 | Laniakea | brlcad: "Build pattern tool"? |
| 17:38.18 | brlcad | i'm not sure I'd want to design a building from scratch with brl-cad, but if you have an existing design in mind or floor plans, or a physical building, it's usually straightforward |
| 17:38.23 | brlcad | Laniakea: yeah |
| 17:38.49 | brlcad | TME: yeah, the same holds then |
| 17:38.59 | mec_guy | How does BRL-CAD compare with I-DEAS or Catia? |
| 17:39.27 | Laniakea | brlcad: not very intuitive menu |
| 17:39.52 | Laniakea | brlcad: Base Center it's probably x y z but it could be stated explicitly |
| 17:39.58 | Laniakea | (like it's not x,y,z) |
| 17:40.09 | brlcad | want to fix it? :) |
| 17:40.11 | Laniakea | Not explained the difference between object and base |
| 17:40.24 | Laniakea | Angles in radians or degrees? |
| 17:40.34 | Laniakea | Function of source and replacement string |
| 17:40.34 | brlcad | I believe they are in degrees |
| 17:40.50 | Laniakea | What "Starting Height |
| 17:40.51 | TME | brlcad: see http://pastebin.ca/601708 for what I'm trying to do |
| 17:40.53 | Laniakea | " means |
| 17:40.59 | Laniakea | is it height of something or height as position? |
| 17:41.07 | Laniakea | Heights? What's that? |
| 17:41.12 | Laniakea | Lists? What lists? |
| 17:41.25 | brlcad | the pattern tool was a quick hack, I take no claim or responsibility, but it does work once you learn it (and it's covered/explained in the advanced tutorial) |
| 17:41.39 | Laniakea | is the advanced tutorial online? |
| 17:41.48 | brlcad | yep, vol III or IV iirc |
| 17:41.50 | brlcad | on the main website |
| 17:41.57 | TME | I want to walk the directory and load all of the regions usin grt_gettree |
| 17:42.01 | Laniakea | Like it's not necessary to put help into the window but the labels should contain some self-explanatory hints |
| 17:42.21 | Laniakea | you need to get some person who has no idea about BRL-CAD give it MGED and ask where he has no idea |
| 17:42.21 | brlcad | Laniakea: it's a cylinder pattern, so if you just want one level, the height is something small enough so it only iterates once |
| 17:42.24 | Laniakea | and then add the missing clues |
| 17:42.37 | Laniakea | Developers are generally clueless about usability since they know everything by heart |
| 17:42.44 | Laniakea | Get a guy who rides a snowboard and smokes pot. |
| 17:42.51 | brlcad | sure |
| 17:42.55 | brlcad | i agree |
| 17:42.56 | Laniakea | He'll be excellent in that |
| 17:43.05 | brlcad | the guys that worked on it weren't writing for general populace |
| 17:43.07 | Laniakea | You are army right? |
| 17:43.12 | brlcad | they needed a pattern for something they were doing |
| 17:43.19 | Laniakea | Borrow some private with big muscles and empty head. |
| 17:43.20 | brlcad | they wrote the interface, it was slapped in |
| 17:43.34 | Laniakea | No I don't mean just the pattern tool now |
| 17:43.39 | brlcad | I know you don't |
| 17:43.47 | brlcad | but the same holds for much of the interface |
| 17:43.48 | Laniakea | I have the same problem on Ronja. I need "common people" to fix the usability. |
| 17:44.29 | brlcad | the interface wasn't designed for public use, or even ease of use -- it was written to be powerful with much expert knowledge on hand to instruct on how to use it |
| 17:44.34 | Laniakea | I have the first Ronja piece which was designed in BRL-CAD completely virtually and only then a prototype manufactured. |
| 17:44.55 | Laniakea | Free software is however always for public use |
| 17:44.57 | brlcad | not a great approach for software design in general, leaves much polish work missing |
| 17:45.25 | Laniakea | Or of course it doesn't have to be, but it's a waste of a great potential if the public is excluded from it's usage. |
| 17:45.39 | Laniakea | I don't think the approach is a problem |
| 17:45.39 | brlcad | no, that's not the intent of course |
| 17:45.46 | Laniakea | All you need it some kind of UI refactoring |
| 17:45.48 | brlcad | it needs to be made better |
| 17:45.54 | brlcad | need people to make it better though |
| 17:45.56 | Laniakea | add deg here, x,y,z there |
| 17:46.02 | brlcad | otherwise you're arguing and complaining with yourself |
| 17:46.11 | Laniakea | Do you think I should try to compile the newest brl-cad? ;-) |
| 17:46.37 | brlcad | sure, don't see why not? |
| 17:47.13 | brlcad | that's not going to make this particular issue any better, that code hasn't changed |
| 17:47.15 | Laniakea | Still the old website? |
| 17:47.24 | brlcad | for now yes |
| 17:47.37 | brlcad | MinuteElectron's been making great progress on the new site |
| 17:47.47 | Laniakea | Any estimate when the new one is online? |
| 17:47.57 | brlcad | not really, it's on-going |
| 17:48.10 | MinuteElectron | a couple of days and the design will be complete - will still need to add tons of content though. |
| 17:48.26 | brlcad | TME: erm, you know that db_walk_tree has a callback for regions? |
| 17:48.52 | brlcad | yep, tons of content |
| 17:48.59 | brlcad | way more than is currently on the website |
| 17:49.11 | IriX64 | Laniakea: this what your talking about? http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 patterntool (i'm trying to learn) |
| 17:49.11 | brlcad | will be *really* nice to start populating the wiki |
| 17:49.29 | MinuteElectron | afk |
| 17:50.03 | brlcad | ~afk |
| 17:50.03 | ibot | somebody said afk was Away From Keyboard |
| 17:50.13 | TME | brlcad: haven't seen db_walk_tree yet can I use it to load objects into a rt pointer? |
| 17:50.48 | brlcad | TME: I believe the answer is yes, what do you mean by load objects into a rt pointer? |
| 17:50.58 | brlcad | a struct rt_i raytrace instance pointer? |
| 17:51.07 | IriX64 | thought afk meant a funny kind and ask meant a sad kind :) |
| 17:51.22 | TME | TME: I want to populate a struct rt_i with regions so that I can raytrace through them in my transport code |
| 17:51.26 | brlcad | hehe |
| 17:51.37 | brlcad | talking to yourself now, eh? :) |
| 17:51.44 | TME | oops, got confused |
| 17:51.56 | TME | not the first time |
| 17:52.02 | brlcad | :) |
| 17:52.31 | TME | I've got a snippet of what I'm currently doing (it works, but may not be optimal/portable) |
| 17:52.51 | TME | http://pastebin.ca/601708 |
| 17:52.54 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:54.25 | brlcad | TME: that's not too shabby |
| 17:54.46 | brlcad | not much different with the tree walker, just "sorta" does that loop for you |
| 17:55.02 | TME | brlcad: cool |
| 17:55.11 | brlcad | your loop doesn't account for other things like deleted geometry, hidden geometry, and other issues |
| 17:55.28 | brlcad | as it will just pull up everything that's a region |
| 17:55.36 | TME | brlcad: right now I'm focusing on ray-tracing through regions |
| 17:55.42 | TME | as those are the problems I have now |
| 17:55.57 | brlcad | what is this problem domain, if I may ask |
| 17:56.15 | TME | brlcad: want to do radiation transport through objects |
| 17:56.17 | brlcad | sounds interesting, and perhaps something I may already know about .. |
| 17:56.25 | brlcad | ah, yes, you guys :) |
| 17:56.39 | TME | brlcad: yes, Jeff Johnson was your contact here |
| 17:56.43 | brlcad | I believe Lee met with you guys |
| 17:56.50 | TME | brlcad: that's right |
| 17:57.11 | brlcad | I heard about the problem a little bit, but didn't dive too far into the details |
| 17:57.22 | TME | brlcad: this is currently a prototype for proof-of-principel |
| 17:57.29 | TME | principle, pebkac |
| 17:57.44 | brlcad | cool |
| 17:58.00 | brlcad | well, glad to help even before I knew who you were ;) |
| 17:58.09 | TME | brlcad: I'm hoping we can get some support for you guys to look over what I've got so far |
| 17:58.19 | brlcad | hopefully can get a successful proof going, really interesting project |
| 17:58.23 | Laniakea | brlcad: I think brl-cad is excellent for architecture since it's a solid modelling |
| 17:58.27 | TME | got it going |
| 17:58.37 | TME | thing works so far, but may not be ideal |
| 17:58.43 | Laniakea | and architecture is full of holes and complicated interactions of basic elementary solids |
| 18:00.02 | TME | brlcad: in any case, I'd be happy to send you my interface to BRLCAD if you're interested... |
| 18:02.47 | TME | brlcad: is it better to do if (db->d_flags & (DIR_COMB | DIR_REGION)) |
| 18:35.50 | *** part/#brlcad mec_guy (n=chatzill@59.95.35.161) | |
| 18:38.55 | poolio | brlcad: I had to use db_walk_tree instead of functree becasue I needed to modify the union tree, oh well |
| 18:58.57 | IriX64 | opennurbs_curve.h (#include <assert.h> should fix it) |
| 19:05.49 | IriX64 | did :) |
| 19:11.57 | brlcad | poolio: you could have passed/stashed the union as the callback data, but whatever if it works it works ;) |
| 19:12.03 | brlcad | those two go hand in hand |
| 19:13.29 | brlcad | Laniakea: I'd agree, excellent in terms of representation -- needs more in terms of supporting design from scratch though (interface-wise) |
| 19:14.35 | brlcad | TME: I am certainly interested -- and don't be shy if you need to make changes to librt to support your application or if you have other questions on the API |
| 19:15.46 | brlcad | commit access is open to just about anyone that has an interest in improving the code |
| 19:16.07 | brlcad | and yes, is is better to and/or the flags against the symbols instead of using the direct values |
| 19:21.58 | IriX64 | would there be any interest I wonder, in a build from unix code that will run on windows? |
| 19:42.07 | TME | brlcad: I've basically got 1 class that does the stuff I'm talking about, I can pastebin it or send it |
| 19:42.20 | TME | brlcad: its not large, so let me know (if you want it ;)) |
| 19:44.29 | IriX64 | if there is an interest, it works with xwin32 too (thats with the cygwin root renamed so as to break cygwin) :) |
| 19:46.45 | MinuteElectron | interest here |
| 19:47.37 | IriX64 | really, I have a may 6 build thats fully functional can archive the whole tree and deliver where you say |
| 19:47.59 | IriX64 | can even put the xwin32 setup package in it |
| 19:48.32 | IriX64 | 30 minutes per run unless you buy it, or a one moth eval (and no im not affiliated with them) |
| 19:50.21 | MinuteElectron | 30 minutes per a run? where is their open source spirit? |
| 19:50.25 | IriX64 | need windows 2000 and up though :) |
| 19:51.09 | IriX64 | no idea |
| 19:51.22 | IriX64 | its commercial |
| 19:51.32 | IriX64 | me too |
| 19:51.35 | IriX64 | works fine |
| 19:51.52 | IriX64 | never tried vista |
| 19:52.17 | IriX64 | works with winaxe too |
| 19:52.38 | IriX64 | should work with any decent x server |
| 19:54.42 | IriX64 | If you're interested, i'll pack it up (I charge nothing this is a labor of love) |
| 19:56.58 | MinuteElectron | dw |
| 19:57.13 | IriX64 | ? |
| 19:57.18 | MinuteElectron | I am waaaay to busy at the moment/ |
| 19:57.33 | MinuteElectron | It would be another thing to distract me, maybe in a few weeks. |
| 19:57.51 | IriX64 | heh all right, tell me do you have bz2 extraction tools for windows? |
| 19:58.37 | MinuteElectron | yeah - 7zip |
| 19:58.45 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 19:59.53 | IriX64 | I'll return to my compile :) |
| 20:02.26 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 20:39.16 | IriX64 | 743mg archive, how am i suppsed to spread that around? |
| 20:41.32 | IriX64 | 2.19gb uncompressed, guess i shouldn't have compiled static :) |
| 20:44.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: debugging closeTo(); changed edge miss tolerance |
| 20:46.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: fix bug with brep surface orientation; fix bug with destructor (don't free already freed memory) |
| 20:47.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix bug with brep surface orientation; fix bug with destructor (don't free already freed memory); fix bug with face orientation |
| 20:49.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug edge_check routine; simplify to closeness check (remove left-of check) |
| 20:51.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: create new closeTo/search implementations to test a point instead of a ray; still debugging it |
| 20:52.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: add closeTo declaration for points; fix typo bugs in Sample class |
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| 03:29.55 | brlcad | happy 4th for the USians |
| 04:15.04 | poolio | ahhhhh |
| 04:15.05 | poolio | happy 4th |
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| 10:25.59 | thing0 | hey guys |
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| 11:19.10 | thing0 | cya |
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| 13:40.17 | ``Erik | well, it's the fourth for everyone... :D but happy independence day, all you damn american infidels |
| 13:41.30 | archivist | grmbl us brits are working |
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| 14:37.06 | MinuteElectron | wtf is vim's problem? you push the backspace key in insert mode and it outputs 'wuff wuff' - some people may have tons of time to mess about with silly things like that, but others have things to do. |
| 14:39.53 | MinuteElectron | Ok, maybe it wasn't vim. |
| 14:43.14 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: are you in screen? |
| 14:43.20 | brlcad | wuff wuff sounds like screen |
| 14:44.00 | brlcad | it prints that as the "bell character" since it can't readily beep |
| 14:45.10 | MinuteElectron | yeah, it was screen |
| 14:45.26 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Why is the server type set to 'a monkey hitting...'? |
| 14:46.48 | brlcad | for a variety of reasons |
| 14:47.05 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, ok. |
| 14:47.06 | brlcad | but mostly because it's something different |
| 14:47.58 | MinuteElectron | Fine, just wondered - probably won't cause any trouble but Drupal says it might (since it cannot tell what server it is running on). I guess it doesn't matter. |
| 14:48.25 | brlcad | yeah, it won't cause any trouble for drupal |
| 14:48.44 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 14:49.05 | brlcad | one of the points for changing it is so external apps can't readily tell what server is running |
| 14:49.27 | MinuteElectron | I see - more security mesaures. |
| 14:49.30 | brlcad | aside from just being kinda funny/curious/interesting |
| 14:49.50 | brlcad | one of about a hundred things like that on the server |
| 14:50.43 | brlcad | pwd |
| 14:50.54 | MinuteElectron | ~pwd |
| 14:50.55 | ibot | it has been said that pwd is $pwd |
| 14:51.06 | brlcad | :) |
| 14:51.11 | brlcad | ~ww |
| 14:51.12 | ibot | Wrong window pansie |
| 14:51.30 | brlcad | ibot_: be nice |
| 14:58.00 | MinuteElectron | hmm, vim is still being an arse. |
| 14:59.23 | MinuteElectron | Oh dear, |
| 14:59.53 | MinuteElectron | emacs wants to save its config file to /home/MinuteElectron - that appears to be my pwd, ha /me needs to fix that. |
| 15:01.34 | brlcad | wow, how'd you do that? |
| 15:01.52 | MinuteElectron | oh dear |
| 15:01.55 | MinuteElectron | it still wants to |
| 15:02.13 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I have no idea, I still havem't fixed the problem though. |
| 15:02.33 | MinuteElectron | I tried setting PWD in .profile but that didn't work |
| 15:02.48 | brlcad | you shouldn't need to do that |
| 15:03.19 | MinuteElectron | But when I type pwd I get '/home/MinuteElectron'. |
| 15:05.11 | MinuteElectron | But wait, /home is a symlink to /usr/home so it should just work |
| 15:05.21 | MinuteElectron | how odd |
| 15:05.35 | MinuteElectron | but it also makes emacs unusable as I keep getting a bell message |
| 15:06.12 | brlcad | where are you? |
| 15:06.34 | MinuteElectron | what do you mean/ |
| 15:06.35 | brlcad | what's the bell message for? |
| 15:06.41 | MinuteElectron | emacs |
| 15:06.53 | brlcad | no, i mean why is it giving you a bell? |
| 15:07.10 | brlcad | what's it trying to do that's failing? |
| 15:07.10 | MinuteElectron | because it can't write to /home/MinuteElectron/.emacs.d |
| 15:07.23 | brlcad | now that's odd |
| 15:07.30 | brlcad | you should be able to write to that |
| 15:07.38 | MinuteElectron | I presume it is because I am sudo www |
| 15:07.46 | brlcad | oooh |
| 15:07.57 | brlcad | run emacs as yourself first |
| 15:08.01 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:08.12 | brlcad | sudo retains the caller's ident |
| 15:08.20 | brlcad | s/ident/environment |
| 15:14.39 | MinuteElectron | ha, emacs is so much easier to use than vim |
| 15:14.56 | brlcad | indeed |
| 15:15.28 | MinuteElectron | Wonders how he actually managed to use vim. |
| 15:16.17 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Is tan an alright hyperlink color, i used it to match the navigation bar. |
| 15:29.46 | brlcad | try FBD079 |
| 15:32.45 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:33.08 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I was already using that. |
| 15:34.04 | brlcad | mm, minor dyslexia? :) |
| 15:34.38 | brlcad | look closely |
| 15:35.27 | MinuteElectron | shit |
| 15:36.40 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, that looks better. |
| 15:37.23 | brlcad | as good as it's gonna get at least with that nav bar ;) |
| 15:37.38 | brlcad | i shoulda used a more gamma/websafe color |
| 15:37.50 | brlcad | good enough, though |
| 15:37.57 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:41.41 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 15:43.13 | brlcad | there we go, ffc757, that's the gamma-corrected value that it *should* be (at least for my system) :) |
| 15:43.56 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, perfect. |
| 15:47.41 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can a no-reply e-mail address be used? e.g. no-reply@my.brlcad.org |
| 15:48.52 | brlcad | sure you can use noreply at brlcad.org |
| 15:49.19 | MinuteElectron | cool, thanks |
| 15:50.50 | brlcad | webmaster @ can also be used |
| 15:51.02 | brlcad | if you want it to go somewhere |
| 15:51.05 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:52.08 | brlcad | there are also support, bugs, and dev emails depending on the purpose as well as a few others |
| 15:55.44 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177878796.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 16:48.45 | yukonbob | when I go to "Request New Password", the links in the tabs ("Create new account", "Log in") are almost illegible as tan-on-white... |
| 16:53.25 | MinuteElectron | it is not finished |
| 16:53.31 | MinuteElectron | I am aware of such problems |
| 16:53.41 | MinuteElectron | I still have to add styling to the tabs |
| 16:53.55 | MinuteElectron | and make the boxes go on the right |
| 16:54.01 | yukonbob | :) -- didn't figure that you were finished, but didn't know if you were aware... |
| 16:54.04 | MinuteElectron | thanks for the info anyway |
| 16:57.13 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 16:57.26 | *** join/#brlcad TDK_KNIGHT (n=TDK_KNIG@S0106001310e365b5.wp.shawcable.net) | |
| 16:57.29 | TDK_KNIGHT | hello |
| 16:57.48 | TDK_KNIGHT | ? |
| 17:00.39 | yukonbob | hello TDK_KNIGHT |
| 17:01.37 | TDK_KNIGHT | hi |
| 17:01.49 | TDK_KNIGHT | i'm looking for a linux cad promgram... |
| 17:02.30 | TDK_KNIGHT | i'm runing fc4 on a am2 3500+ with 2gig of ram |
| 17:03.04 | yukonbob | "cad" in what sense? What are you trying to do with it? BRLCAD is a constructive solid geometry modeller... |
| 17:03.07 | poolio | Try BRL-CAD. brlcad.org |
| 17:03.30 | TDK_KNIGHT | looking for somthing like autocad lol |
| 17:04.23 | TDK_KNIGHT | don't work |
| 17:06.15 | TDK_KNIGHT | i see bocad but their site is useles |
| 17:27.01 | MinuteElectron | lol |
| 17:27.05 | MinuteElectron | how ironic |
| 17:27.58 | TDK_KNIGHT | huh? |
| 17:28.34 | MinuteElectron | I am currently redesigning the BRL-CAD website and it will soon have more contnet. |
| 17:28.34 | MinuteElectron | *content |
| 17:28.36 | TDK_KNIGHT | o ok |
| 17:28.40 | TDK_KNIGHT | lol |
| 17:28.48 | TDK_KNIGHT | yea it looks prity well oldschool lol |
| 17:28.52 | TDK_KNIGHT | right now |
| 17:29.41 | IriX64 | should have bookmarked your site :) |
| 17:32.10 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: Who's site? |
| 17:32.18 | IriX64 | yours :) |
| 17:32.31 | MinuteElectron | http://my.brlcad.org |
| 17:32.39 | IriX64 | isn't drupal you ? |
| 17:32.43 | IriX64 | oh |
| 17:32.55 | MinuteElectron | http://82.7.33.27/ |
| 17:33.29 | IriX64 | nice |
| 17:33.44 | MinuteElectron | <3's his static IP address. |
| 17:33.54 | MinuteElectron | no, http://82.7.33.28/ |
| 17:33.56 | MinuteElectron | wrong number |
| 17:34.06 | IriX64 | can i simply bookmark my.brlcad.org for now? |
| 17:34.10 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 17:34.14 | IriX64 | good |
| 17:34.31 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 17:34.35 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:36.24 | IriX64 | should i wait to create an account :) |
| 17:37.25 | TDK_KNIGHT | min thats looking good |
| 17:38.14 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: Please wait, thanks. |
| 17:38.20 | IriX64 | sure |
| 17:41.02 | IriX64 | How well does the gui work in brlcad? |
| 18:05.44 | AchiestDragon | 127.0.0.1 :) |
| 18:09.53 | IriX64 | :0.0 :) |
| 18:11.28 | IriX64 | compiling 7.8.4, several things missing in ogl support (I'm not gonna write them) :) |
| 18:11.52 | AchiestDragon | \ >(O..O)< / |
| 18:12.31 | IriX64 | don't know irc lingo like that sorry. |
| 18:12.54 | AchiestDragon | \ >(O..O)< / = thows hands up in air |
| 18:13.02 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 18:13.25 | IriX64 | which is takes keyboard in hand :) |
| 18:35.35 | IriX64 | ok... it built, it's up.. now I guess it's time to peruse the docs. |
| 18:40.08 | IriX64 | just playing around with the gui, raytraced havoc, toodles must run |
| 18:46.17 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 19:21.58 | SuperTaz | anything exciting? |
| 19:22.30 | SuperTaz | I suppose not |
| 19:22.38 | SuperTaz | :P |
| 19:41.15 | poolio | errr oh well. |
| 19:41.19 | poolio | it's a holiday :), i'm away |
| 20:59.46 | *** join/#brlcad shiva (n=shiva@c-76-23-169-99.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) | |
| 21:00.14 | shiva | i just installed brlcad on my ubuntu box; what is the best way to get started? |
| 21:00.31 | shiva | (I have a ug nx background) |
| 21:19.54 | AchiestDragon | open a console window , cd/usr/blrcad/bin then ./mged |
| 21:20.15 | AchiestDragon | hopeless he left |
| 21:20.53 | AchiestDragon | may as well talk to the chan wall |
| 21:44.03 | SuperTaz | Syx0by |
| 21:44.16 | SuperTaz | dfku99 |
| 21:44.23 | SuperTaz | dammit |
| 21:44.35 | SuperTaz | too much crap on my desk |
| 22:01.44 | *** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 23:06.55 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 00:13.52 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177878796.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 00:15.15 | IriX64 | sean@crew.local ? who's he :) |
| 00:19.47 | poolio | hmmph? |
| 00:19.51 | poolio | brlcad = sean |
| 00:22.07 | IriX64 | does good work |
| 00:22.20 | IriX64 | the gui is nice |
| 00:27.10 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 (gui.png) |
| 00:34.53 | IriX64 | back to work... ciao |
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| 13:01.02 | poolio | mornin |
| 14:09.44 | poolio | brlcad: is it OK if I just cut-paste and modify the db_functree code? there's just a few things I need that would be a pain to do using the already established walking methods |
| 14:16.48 | poolio | brlcad: ah wow. I wish I'd found g-xxx earlier :\ |
| 14:31.20 | poolio | err crud. I still don't see how to get this working without re-recursing the tree. I thought db_tree_state would have the union tree from the combination but nope... |
| 16:05.24 | *** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-76-23-44-107.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 16:10.22 | ``Erik | g-xxx is a bit of a train-wreck |
| 16:14.18 | poolio | ``Erik: not as something to use, but as an example |
| 16:14.29 | poolio | ``Erik: I've ended up just tearing up db_functree to suit my needs |
| 16:14.33 | ``Erik | it has deprecated and superfluous crap in it :/ |
| 16:15.04 | poolio | hmm, oh well, i ended up not using it |
| 16:15.33 | poolio | I've been in a rut the past couple days, I keep being wishy washy about how I want to traverse trees and copy them and all and I have like 20 routines that kind of work and none that entirely do |
| 16:15.33 | ``Erik | I'm in missouri right now, but if you want, I get back to md on the 10th and can cull down some stuff for you |
| 16:15.52 | poolio | ``Erik: Nah It's alright, I'll have it worked out before then |
| 16:15.59 | ``Erik | or, if you can figure out how things work, *shrug* :) I did a lot of kinda reverse engineering and lots of question asking before getting a solid grasp of that side |
| 16:16.00 | poolio | hopefully by the end of today |
| 16:16.31 | ``Erik | <-- is finishing up a quick lunch before heading to lake ozark for jetskiing with the gf's mom and sister |
| 16:16.39 | poolio | Oh wow, enjoy man :) |
| 16:17.08 | ``Erik | not keen on the jetski, but supposedly her mom is a lush with a well stocked bar and a pool table... O:-) |
| 16:17.10 | poolio | ``Erik: you work up at post? |
| 16:17.24 | poolio | Heh, jetski sounds awesome. pollutes but also lots of fun |
| 16:17.28 | ``Erik | yeah, upstairs from brlcad, in the same office as jra/daytona |
| 16:17.34 | poolio | ah cool |
| 16:18.01 | ``Erik | some people are under the impression that I'm going to finish the metaball stuff I wrote into BRL-CAD |
| 16:18.03 | ``Erik | :> |
| 16:18.08 | poolio | hehe |
| 16:18.10 | poolio | well? |
| 16:19.49 | ``Erik | all that's left for full functionality is mb->nurb and mb->tri |
| 16:20.34 | ``Erik | nurb support is changing, and triangles might warrant a full marching cubes thing, which is a major thing that many things could use.... |
| 16:27.20 | poolio | eek |
| 16:27.23 | poolio | yeah, good luck |
| 16:41.03 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878796.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 16:42.29 | IriX64 | Do you support Cygwin builds here? |
| 16:44.07 | IriX64 | I mean usage wise. |
| 16:45.11 | IriX64 | ahh I see, please do a version on me. |
| 16:47.27 | poolio | hmm? hi IriX64 |
| 16:47.39 | IriX64 | hi |
| 16:47.41 | poolio | ibot_: seen brlcad? |
| 16:48.53 | IriX64 | channel troubles? |
| 16:49.03 | poolio | err no. |
| 16:49.09 | poolio | Just mental troubles |
| 16:49.17 | brlcad | poolio: gimme about an hour :) |
| 16:49.43 | IriX64 | heh ever pushing :) |
| 16:49.44 | brlcad | unless it'll actually take less than 20 seconds |
| 16:50.00 | brlcad | ibot_: botsnack |
| 16:52.37 | poolio | brlcad: yeah no worries, ta ta. |
| 16:53.32 | IriX64 | is this a help channel or developer channel (just so I know where I am)? |
| 16:58.41 | poolio | IriX64: some of both |
| 17:04.28 | IriX64 | thankyou poolio |
| 17:08.33 | IriX64 | friend of mine gave me hex.c for producing bolts to the pitch you specify (actually produces a .g file for brlcad) can be found at http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 |
| 17:37.14 | IriX64 | I take it it would be bad form to talk about where you are in the compile process :) |
| 17:40.56 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.185.96) | |
| 17:48.07 | IriX64 | make |
| 17:48.25 | IriX64 | bbl8r |
| 18:50.06 | brlcad | poolio: back, so feel free to fire over any q's |
| 18:50.20 | brlcad | and yeah, find to copy off functree's guts to suit if neede |
| 18:50.25 | brlcad | s/find/fine/ |
| 18:51.34 | poolio | brlcad: alright |
| 18:52.49 | poolio | brlcad: My main issue this morning was rt_db_put_internal was corrupting the database. Not sure why and I know you'd need code to test it / debug, but I'll get back to you later if I can't get it working |
| 18:53.25 | brlcad | yeah, that would be good to figure out, regardless of the cause |
| 18:54.04 | poolio | there was no error on reading, and no error on writing, but the database that was output was ... corrupted |
| 18:54.52 | poolio | brlcad: also, montly reports? is there something I need to be doing for that? |
| 18:55.17 | poolio | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...db5_crack_disk_header() bad magic1 -- database has become corrupted expected x76, got x0 |
| 18:55.20 | poolio | db5_get_raw_internal_fp(): object_length=0 is too short, database is corrupted |
| 18:59.57 | brlcad | sounds like a zero-length file |
| 19:00.25 | poolio | I can send you the source code / db file |
| 19:00.25 | brlcad | ahh, stupid private message filtering |
| 19:00.36 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 19:35.09 | poolio | brlcad: how could rt_db_put_internal corrupt a database if the internal object isn't corrupt? I can't figure it out :\ |
| 20:09.33 | poolio | brlcad: oh my god |
| 20:09.37 | poolio | brlcad: i'm gonna go cry now |
| 20:09.47 | poolio | brlcad: "rm *;o" instead of rm *.o |
| 20:09.48 | poolio | wow |
| 20:10.41 | MinuteElectron | poolio: What happend? |
| 20:10.49 | MinuteElectron | You just erased everything on your system? |
| 20:10.49 | poolio | MinuteElectron: typo removed my entire working directory |
| 20:10.55 | MinuteElectron | ack |
| 20:10.57 | poolio | shit |
| 20:11.23 | MinuteElectron | poolio: does Linux not have undeletion methods? |
| 20:17.15 | poolio | errr it does, nothing i'm familiar with, trying some tool now |
| 20:21.31 | poolio | alright |
| 20:21.37 | poolio | shutting down and trying from recovery environment |
| 20:24.35 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:32.14 | MinuteElectron | No success? |
| 20:34.41 | poolio | err nope |
| 20:35.00 | MinuteElectron | How dread. |
| 20:38.15 | poolio | brlcad: I rebooted and am in my gentoo install, but the inodes that it finds that were deleted link to empty files |
| 20:38.20 | poolio | I forgot about *@#@#$ ext3 |
| 20:38.26 | poolio | zeros out the inodes, doesnt just unlink them |
| 20:40.02 | poolio | On the bright side most of my stuff since my last commit whenever that was has been me trying to figure out trees and crap. not too much productive working code, otherwise it would have been in CVS |
| 20:40.54 | poolio | Maybe this was God telling me I should have listened to my boss and done the paperwork first |
| 20:42.26 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:44.34 | poolio | brlcad: alright, I'm going to try to just type up the general idea of what I've lost while it's fresh in my mind |
| 20:46.26 | poolio | mannnn. that's 3 days of work. i'm going to add a cron job to backup my home directory |
| 20:49.13 | brlcad | yeah, that sucks |
| 20:50.04 | poolio | no, it's stupid. |
| 20:50.48 | poolio | what I mainly lost was hackish broken apart code, so it's not the end of the world, it's just a waste of time. |
| 20:50.58 | poolio | Alright, I'm gonna stop whining and start trying to rewrite what I've lost |
| 20:51.24 | poolio | brlcad: wait, since you added .cvsignore are my updates to cvs ignored by everyone's cvs updates? |
| 20:52.10 | brlcad | a good friend of mine used to have his new coders work on something for a few days |
| 20:52.24 | brlcad | then he'd ask them to show him their progress after a couple days |
| 20:52.25 | poolio | That's crazy though. One typo, one key off, and wham. |
| 20:52.29 | poolio | then delete it? |
| 20:52.34 | brlcad | he'd sit down at the keyboard, and then delete it ;) |
| 20:52.42 | poolio | ah. why? |
| 20:52.49 | brlcad | a lesson |
| 20:52.54 | poolio | backup often? |
| 20:52.59 | brlcad | don't get too attached to your code |
| 20:53.24 | brlcad | learn to refactor and/or rewrite from scratch |
| 20:53.27 | poolio | I don't quite get the lesson? The thing I gather is just that I need to be more careful |
| 20:53.43 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah, I'm sure what I write now will be better organized and more thought out put together code |
| 20:53.44 | brlcad | rewrite from memory, often with the expertise, without any of the code obstacles of existing infrastructure |
| 20:53.46 | poolio | it's just going to take a lot of time |
| 20:54.16 | poolio | yeah, that's true, but it's also highly inefficient in terms of time. if I was to say rewrite librt, libwdb, and all those i'd be coding for years and years before I got to a point |
| 20:54.27 | brlcad | more time for you overall perhaps, but probably would have ultimately taken longer to get to that "better organized and more thought out" version |
| 20:54.48 | brlcad | it's hard for some folks to refactor for that "better" state once it's working |
| 20:54.48 | poolio | but I understand the general idea, sometimes it's good to start over. Kind of like scheme vs lisp, scheme people say that they basically rewrote lisp without all the obastacles that lisp had to go through and with a knowledge of the problems that lisp encountered |
| 20:55.43 | brlcad | yeah, there is a tipping poing .. I wouldn't say the lesson extends to more than a few thousand lines of code at most |
| 20:56.14 | brlcad | after that, there is a lot of investment that becomes massive and intricate to reproduce without loosing both bad and good, often more the latter |
| 20:56.20 | poolio | Yeah. I think I lost around one-two thousand. but most of it was cut and paste junk. I can probably get it back in a couple more hours today + a hard day tomorrow, and I'd bet those errors I was having will miraculously be gone |
| 20:56.54 | poolio | Argh, it's annoying, in debugfs I can see the inodes and the filenames but the blocks are all wiped clean. |
| 20:57.00 | poolio | brlcad: iphone or what? |
| 20:57.03 | brlcad | iphone |
| 20:57.05 | poolio | and you get your fancy schmancy macbook? |
| 20:57.13 | brlcad | hasn't arrived yet |
| 20:57.14 | poolio | eh. you and your toys. |
| 20:57.28 | poolio | All I want is a lightweight old 12" and I'd be set for 4 years |
| 20:57.36 | brlcad | the phone is pretty slick, I gotta admit |
| 20:57.42 | brlcad | even without a damn sdk |
| 20:57.45 | poolio | yeah, but how's it work? |
| 20:57.54 | brlcad | that's what I mean, functionally |
| 20:57.59 | poolio | hehe |
| 20:57.59 | poolio | well enjoy it |
| 20:58.09 | poolio | i'm gonna reboot and get coding |
| 20:58.42 | poolio | try to get some progress to speak of before I have to write up that report |
| 21:02.18 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:03.17 | poolio | back |
| 21:03.38 | MinuteElectron | This reminds me - I need to code SuperCron, my Windows cron daemon so I can schedule backups and tasks on this machine. |
| 21:05.19 | poolio | actually that's worthless |
| 21:05.32 | poolio | i'm on a laptop, i'll have to remember to do it myself / at startup/shutdown |
| 22:07.58 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.185.96) | |
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| 22:25.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: better/consistent argument processing supporting both long and short option names, perhaps using argtable (argtable.sf.net) |
| 22:31.39 | poolio | brlcad: I'm off for now, my mind is too fried/enraged to code any longer. I'll be back on later for more coding |
| 03:20.36 | poolio | back. |
| 05:15.29 | poolio | mornin ;) |
| 05:18.12 | brlcad | howdy howdy |
| 05:18.22 | brlcad | get that brain washed off and ready for some more bunishment? |
| 05:21.28 | poolio | brlcad: yes. I saw Sicko and went out for crepes, was a good evening. And I've already started the brain squeez.e |
| 05:21.46 | brlcad | mm crepes |
| 05:22.36 | poolio | jah. was tasty. |
| 05:22.46 | poolio | now I'm surfing ebay, looking to get a lenovo x40t or x60 or x61 |
| 05:24.27 | poolio | brlcad: http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-X41-Tablt-1-5-1GB-60G-DVD-RW-Wi-Fi-Bluth_W0QQitemZ270140672371QQihZ017QQcategoryZ140083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 05:24.32 | poolio | looks too good to be true, must be :'( |
| 05:26.13 | brlcad | there's still a day to go |
| 05:26.39 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, but I think it's a fake auction. There's discrepancies between the title listing and the specs. |
| 05:26.53 | poolio | But yeah, price will skyrocket in a couple hours |
| 05:27.42 | brlcad | er, what discrepancies? |
| 05:27.51 | brlcad | other than being lazy on a few fields |
| 05:28.21 | brlcad | not likely to be fake from a seller with 500 positive sells |
| 05:28.28 | poolio | 60G hd vs 40G actual |
| 05:28.32 | poolio | Yeah true... |
| 05:28.44 | poolio | Just seems too good to be true, but I guess that's due to the fact there's still a day left |
| 05:28.48 | poolio | I might just have to bid on it |
| 05:28.48 | brlcad | where do you see it say 40? |
| 05:29.01 | poolio | In the specs description, the HTML formatted crap |
| 05:29.45 | poolio | Ah I see, 40G internal + 20G, I guess you're right. I'm too skeptical about eBay in general, I've only ordered one thing off it ever. You ever use it? |
| 05:30.13 | brlcad | i've used it quite a bit over the years |
| 05:30.23 | poolio | cool cool. |
| 05:30.26 | brlcad | good for buying random crap |
| 05:30.47 | brlcad | (and I mean that in a good yard-sale kind of way) |
| 05:31.16 | brlcad | it's probably only cheap because it's so far from the deadline |
| 05:31.18 | poolio | yeah, I'm kind of weary to buy things as expensive as say, a laptop. I'm worried about being scammed and all |
| 05:31.28 | poolio | brlcad: True true. I shall wait and see |
| 05:31.39 | brlcad | If you want to win it, you probably wouldn't bid this early |
| 05:31.48 | brlcad | i don't bid usually until the last 10 minutes |
| 05:31.57 | brlcad | if not the last 2 |
| 05:32.06 | poolio | I'd imagine you get tens to hundreds of bids in the last minutes/seconds |
| 05:32.41 | brlcad | depends on the product of course, how many people are watching |
| 05:33.02 | brlcad | those that bid early usually tip their hand a bit and you have at least some idea of how many will be watching near the end |
| 05:33.21 | poolio | i'm also curious about the automatic bidding system |
| 05:33.29 | poolio | if you had two people set a pretty high max that was the same, who gets it? |
| 05:33.35 | brlcad | some don't change at all in the last few minutes and you can get away with a steal |
| 05:33.41 | poolio | http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=180136728304 |
| 05:33.44 | poolio | watching that one : |
| 05:33.49 | brlcad | others you'll be outbid by whomever simply wanted it most |
| 05:33.58 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, assuming you meet the buyer's reserve right? is there a way to know if you have? |
| 05:34.28 | brlcad | e.g. if it's something I *really* want, you're not likely going to outbid me even if you're watching the last few minutes as my upper limit will be more than it's worth |
| 05:34.42 | poolio | hehe |
| 05:34.44 | brlcad | it was say if the reserve is met |
| 05:34.48 | poolio | you and your toys... :) |
| 05:35.04 | brlcad | gotta have the toys |
| 05:36.06 | poolio | it'd be fun if you could coordinate the whole ebay community ;) |
| 05:36.52 | brlcad | there are "ebay apps" out there now that will show you what others are bidding on, folks looking at things similar to yours, etc |
| 05:37.12 | poolio | geez. crazy business |
| 05:37.31 | poolio | Oh man, this is like some twisted game. Buyer 14 just got topped by Buyer 15!! what's gonna happen?!! |
| 05:37.44 | poolio | 50 seconds! |
| 05:37.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:37.52 | poolio | It'd suck if you were offline... |
| 05:38.02 | brlcad | yup, i've lost a few that way |
| 05:38.22 | poolio | Oh woah |
| 05:38.25 | brlcad | forgot that I was watching a bid, the other guy gets a steal |
| 05:38.39 | poolio | OH NO WAY |
| 05:38.45 | poolio | Buyer 16 came out of nowhere |
| 05:38.47 | poolio | are you kiddin gme |
| 05:38.51 | brlcad | see? :) |
| 05:38.55 | poolio | I refereshed at 5 seconds and WHAM |
| 05:39.06 | brlcad | that's the way to play it if you really want it |
| 05:39.18 | poolio | Wait til last second and up the current bid by enough to know you'll top them? |
| 05:39.32 | brlcad | you put just one bid in that is at your max, most people just keep nudging it up |
| 05:39.36 | poolio | If you submit at say, 1 second, will autobid still get you? |
| 05:40.10 | poolio | So you submit as late as possible a fairly high bid? will it automatically try to ge tyou the lowest or is it whatever you bid you get it for? |
| 05:40.22 | brlcad | autobid is just a way of saying that the next bid amount is just over whatever the next max was |
| 05:41.15 | poolio | hmm, I don't quite understand. I thought it was like if someone bids higher than you while you're away, it will bid higher than that other person, but only up to a certain point that you set |
| 05:41.31 | brlcad | so if A bids 100 with it at 50, they get it at 51 .. then B bids at 150, the'll get it via autobid at 101 |
| 05:42.13 | brlcad | if A rebids at 140, B still keeps it, but the amount is then 141 |
| 05:42.13 | poolio | wow. my brain must be fried, i still don't get it... :P |
| 05:42.33 | poolio | oh I see |
| 05:42.52 | poolio | So You bid a certain amount, and if your bid is over the previous bid (assuming you're using autobid) it will just add a dollar to the previous high? |
| 05:42.54 | brlcad | it's only if/when A goes over 150 that they'd get it |
| 05:43.22 | poolio | So is it automatically set to "autobid" ? |
| 05:43.25 | brlcad | so 16 just had a bid amount that was higher than 15's max bid (which "usually" isn't hard for most bids) |
| 05:43.57 | brlcad | because again, most people don't put their real "max", else they would be easily out-bid by someone else that simply wants it more |
| 05:44.18 | brlcad | just a little more too, doesn't take much to think "hm, I'd pay a buck more than them" |
| 05:44.33 | poolio | But is there a way to know if it was higher than 15's max bid? Could it just be that they submitted a bid and that was the high before the system got around to computing 15's autobid? |
| 05:45.16 | brlcad | so you just wait until the last minute and put what you would really pay for it -- not want you want, you put your real max .. that way you either max out and get it, max out and someone else gets it, or get it for something far less (the usual, if your bid was reasonable) |
| 05:46.00 | poolio | oh I see, sweet :) |
| 05:46.05 | brlcad | well, if you're really quick on a fast connection, you can put in your bid and you'll know within 10 seconds if you're over or need to up your bid |
| 05:46.23 | brlcad | but then you still risk loosing if you don't put your real max |
| 05:46.29 | poolio | Yeah |
| 05:46.43 | poolio | so a strategy might be bid at 15, watch and see if it jumps, than rebid |
| 05:46.53 | poolio | (15 seconds) |
| 05:47.34 | brlcad | i usually bid in the last two minutes just to see if someone else is "watching", since most will panic and rebid |
| 05:47.41 | poolio | So if you bid at your max, and another guy has a max higher than yours, the price is automatically climbed to 1 dollar greater than your max? |
| 05:47.41 | brlcad | then I put in my real max |
| 05:47.48 | brlcad | right |
| 05:48.12 | brlcad | and that's just the nature of the bid -- if they truely are willing to pay more than you, then you have to back off |
| 05:48.14 | poolio | Heh cool, thanks for the ebay advice :) |
| 05:48.16 | brlcad | at least you should |
| 05:49.19 | brlcad | the items flow through ebay, even obscure stuff, so even if you lose the first three bids, you just keep at it with your max and so long as it's not a hail mary max, you'll eventually get it when the competition isn't so attentive |
| 05:49.44 | brlcad | time of day matters too, bids that close at night-time US vs afternoon vs daytime, etc |
| 05:50.06 | poolio | hmmm, cool |
| 05:50.28 | brlcad | bids that close at night are generally *way* easier to win on, your only competition is folks like #16 that know the game and will bid what they're willing |
| 05:51.19 | poolio | So the idea is never really to bid, see if someone outbids you, bid higher, etc... it's to bid your max and leave it at that? (well, in general) |
| 05:51.38 | brlcad | right |
| 05:52.13 | brlcad | otherwise, you're just pushing against other folks trying to find their limit, fighting everyone's urge to go "just a few more bucks" |
| 05:52.40 | brlcad | it's much easier to just take human nature into account, most won't watch the absolute last minute |
| 05:53.01 | brlcad | or even if they do, can't get a new bid in before it expires |
| 05:53.41 | poolio | Lets say the bid is at 400, your max is at 500, with 5 seconds left someone bids 401. Will you get it? I mean will the system go through and get the highest bidder based on max bids or will it stop with the clock? |
| 05:54.03 | brlcad | max bids |
| 05:54.15 | poolio | good good |
| 05:54.37 | brlcad | again the "autobid" is a bit misleading -- it's instant to whatever the next increment over the next max |
| 05:55.06 | poolio | yeah. makes sense. |
| 05:55.15 | brlcad | so with a bid of 401, that becomes the "next max" and the price goes to 402 |
| 05:55.25 | poolio | It's a bit deceptive but it prevents stuff like hundres of people overloading a bid at the last second |
| 05:55.36 | poolio | And if people has tthe same bid? the people who bid first gets it? |
| 05:55.38 | brlcad | they'll usually poke that max a few times if there's plenty of time left |
| 05:56.29 | brlcad | yeah, because if A bids 100 and gets it at 80, then B bids 100 -- that will push the price up to 100, but A still keeps it |
| 05:57.06 | poolio | hurray, i think that all penetrated my thick skull, thanks |
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| 05:57.32 | brlcad | which is another tip, don't bid whole dollar amounts, or even just a penny over -- tons of people try to pull a "price-is-right" one or two or three pennies over max bid |
| 05:58.05 | brlcad | bid your actual and a few dimes and avoid the fuss, make them go to the next dollar |
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| 11:37.52 | Laniakea | brlcad: do you have some mailing lists? |
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| 12:46.50 | brlcad | Laniakea: there are several |
| 12:47.39 | clock_ | brlcad: could you please also host my Ronja mailing list? |
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| 13:05.48 | poolio | mornin brlcad |
| 14:09.37 | brlcad | howdy |
| 14:20.43 | poolio | I think I'm done all the paperwork, back to coding :) |
| 17:29.35 | poolio | brlcad: hrmph. I just rewrote code that I already implemented and had saved in CVS. oops. |
| 17:35.38 | clock_ | brlcad: can you host mailing lists from other projects? |
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| 18:59.06 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 7.8.4cygwinbuild.png :) |
| 19:00.12 | IriX64 | ogl though givesd me a bad FB_CK_MAG number :( |
| 19:01.26 | IriX64 | when trying to attach to ogl i mean |
| 19:01.53 | IriX64 | on the bright side nu works :) |
| 19:04.36 | IriX64 | it calls out line 199 in if_ogl.c but that line just calls the check |
| 19:05.17 | brlcad | clock_: hmm |
| 19:05.52 | brlcad | clock_: i suppose that depends, though there are a few aspects outside my control (like the list prefix) |
| 19:07.33 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/YosGwI66.html <--- anybody have any ideas |
| 19:08.15 | brlcad | IriX64: looks like opengl was only half-enabled |
| 19:08.22 | brlcad | so it crashes |
| 19:08.35 | IriX64 | you mean at configure time? |
| 19:08.40 | brlcad | that's really hard to do anything about without stepping through the initialization in a debugger |
| 19:08.59 | IriX64 | mmm i have no debugger :) |
| 19:09.24 | brlcad | configure/compilation time .. it could be a preprocessor symbol not being set right because of configure checks or an outright opengl bug (though really doubtful) |
| 19:09.24 | IriX64 | i'll play with X then :) |
| 19:09.36 | brlcad | you have a debugger, or can easily get one.. gdb :) |
| 19:09.44 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 19:10.07 | IriX64 | i doubt its ogl |
| 19:12.24 | brlcad | you doubt what is opengl? |
| 19:13.21 | IriX64 | the problem |
| 19:13.35 | brlcad | speculating on the problem isn't likely going to get you anywhere, it could really be at least a *hundred* different things |
| 19:14.27 | brlcad | if you don't have a debugger and the ability to step through the code line by line, it's pretty much a dead end without wasted effort |
| 19:16.21 | IriX64 | agreed, think i'll stick to X for now |
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| 19:23.00 | IriX64 | now what havie built and what can it do :) |
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| 03:15.56 | thing0 | hey guys |
| 03:15.58 | thing0 | paid day off |
| 03:16.00 | thing0 | wooohooo |
| 03:16.04 | thing0 | :) |
| 03:16.06 | poolio | lucker. |
| 03:16.14 | thing0 | yeah |
| 03:16.25 | thing0 | site is closed because of acid plant start up |
| 03:16.51 | thing0 | so only had to had to sit in training for 4 hours |
| 03:16.54 | thing0 | now I am free |
| 03:16.55 | thing0 | ;) |
| 03:20.20 | poolio | hoorah. |
| 03:20.22 | poolio | acid plant? |
| 03:20.53 | thing0 | yeah |
| 03:21.06 | thing0 | part of processing for nickel mine site |
| 03:21.10 | thing0 | I am sitting on right now |
| 03:21.12 | thing0 | ;) |
| 03:25.00 | poolio | ah |
| 03:25.49 | thing0 | yeah |
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| 04:38.52 | thing0 | cya lunch time |
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| 08:19.41 | Laniakea | brlcad: what did you mean with the prefix? That the list would have to be called brlcad-ronja? |
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| 11:47.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What is the full path to wget? |
| 12:25.29 | Laniakea | /usr/local/bin/wget |
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| 13:09.29 | MinteElectron_ | brlcad: How can i find out all processes I ahve running? top -u MinuteElectron doesn't work. |
| 13:10.22 | MinteElectron_ | My connection aborted and now I am locked out of screen. |
| 13:10.33 | MinteElectron_ | So I cannot resume my previous screen. |
| 13:15.47 | MinuteElectron | That is better. |
| 13:15.53 | MinuteElectron | Laniakea: Thanks. |
| 13:17.53 | MinuteElectron | Now back to work... |
| 13:18.18 | Laniakea | MinuteElectron: ps fawux |
| 13:18.24 | Laniakea | ps aux |
| 13:18.25 | Laniakea | ps ax |
| 13:18.53 | MinuteElectron | ? |
| 13:43.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I have made some touches to the website. Can you take a look at it and tell me what needs fixing before I go ahead and port this to MediaWiki? |
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| 14:42.18 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: top -u -UMinuteElectron |
| 14:42.34 | brlcad | -u means sort, -U is user |
| 14:43.09 | poolio | mornin brlcad |
| 14:43.15 | brlcad | mornin poolio |
| 14:44.24 | poolio | brlcad: that x41t i was looking at ended up going for 710 :P oh well. didn't end up bidding on it, i went to sleep |
| 14:45.28 | brlcad | :) |
| 14:49.29 | poolio | brlcad: i'm off for the day, going to a festival in westminster, cya later |
| 14:49.33 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I looked, looks good -- the only thing I can think of that is missing would be a common footer |
| 14:49.45 | brlcad | poolio: ah, sounds like fun -- cay |
| 14:50.25 | brlcad | Minute http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/color_palette_tr.png |
| 14:50.33 | poolio | I think I might bring my laptop and code some in the car. haha. |
| 14:51.09 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: don't know if that will help or not, but I put that together to help keep the styles consistent as the site(s) are put together |
| 14:52.11 | brlcad | i used to live 20 minutes away from westminster |
| 15:01.21 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What would you like in a common footer? |
| 15:04.19 | brlcad | something big and blinking |
| 15:05.23 | MinuteElectron | seriously? |
| 15:06.48 | brlcad | heh, no :) |
| 15:07.00 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:08.33 | brlcad | something either like slashdot's footer, or apple's footer here: http://www.apple.com/itunes/ or some mix in-between |
| 15:09.00 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:09.44 | MinuteElectron | YOu mean with the link box? |
| 15:10.09 | brlcad | no, the (small) section below it |
| 15:10.12 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:11.10 | brlcad | it's not much, but it adds quite a bit to the navigation (and the only place where you find some items like sitemap, privacy policy, etc) |
| 15:11.41 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:12.09 | brlcad | I really like slashdot's search and quote box, and the transition, but that could be done later |
| 15:12.41 | brlcad | we have a fair bit of a tradition with meaningful quotes that I could have randomly display in something like that |
| 16:26.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: should use /usr/bin/env instead of assuming /bin/bash since it's not using /bin/sh |
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| 18:30.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: change default to // comments for C++ files, fix a bug related to having that as a comment character block when updating files that already have a footer too (encountered processing bzflag files) |
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| 05:21.39 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 09:34.09 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I have a problem with my crontab, none of the jobs have executed, |
| 09:35.49 | MinuteElectron | One job should execute at 45 minutes past the hour every hour, and the other everyday at 03:00 - neither executed. |
| 09:41.15 | MinuteElectron | Also I need to execute an svn update on /w in the web directory - I cannot do this without sudo and entering my password - and I would like it to run from the crontab. |
| 09:41.19 | MinuteElectron | brb |
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| 12:39.58 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I think I have solved the crontab problem - by using sudo to edit www's crontab. |
| 12:41.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: But the problem regarding my cronjobs not executing still stands. |
| 12:45.45 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: So, www's crontab works - but mine doesn't. o_O |
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| 17:37.33 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron, perhaps a page dedicated to user supplied solid models? |
| 17:39.49 | *** join/#brlcad cad52 (n=44548c6f@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 17:49.13 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 BrlCad.jpg and BrlCad.png |
| 17:49.25 | IriX64 | err brlcad2.png |
| 17:53.16 | IriX64 | brlcad3.png at that site now |
| 18:00.53 | IriX64 | tracing.png same site, and i'll stop annoying you now :) |
| 18:04.50 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-204-25.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:25.21 | tarzeau | IriX64: hey i also use irssi on windows |
| 18:40.56 | IriX64 | nice program tarzeau |
| 18:41.14 | IriX64 | they did a good job on it, I have no perl though :) |
| 18:42.02 | tarzeau | i don't use perl either |
| 18:42.15 | tarzeau | it's indeed nice inside gnu screen |
| 18:42.26 | IriX64 | might use it if I had it doesn't compile properly here |
| 18:44.00 | IriX64 | that site look for irssi.png, how im seeing it :) |
| 18:45.46 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-078-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 18:46.33 | IriX64 | haha should have let you see the background compile thats going on here :) |
| 18:58.53 | IriX64 | heh tarzeau mine is 8.11 |
| 18:59.07 | tarzeau | ? |
| 18:59.13 | IriX64 | irssi |
| 18:59.18 | tarzeau | ah the version |
| 18:59.21 | IriX64 | yes |
| 19:01.40 | IriX64 | tarzeau, that same site look for photonsaway.png, just had to share it, it's so purty :) |
| 19:02.31 | tarzeau | what a helicopter |
| 19:02.43 | tarzeau | http://helicopter.istheshit.net/ |
| 19:02.45 | IriX64 | the new exterprise :) |
| 19:03.53 | IriX64 | what the heck is that? |
| 19:04.00 | IriX64 | i did not startit |
| 19:30.12 | *** join/#brlcad cad94 (n=18627332@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:32.14 | IriX64 | trying for 1024x768, I want it as wallpaper :) |
| 19:42.37 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: hmm, dedicated page? |
| 19:42.53 | MinuteElectron | I think brlcad was plaanning a gallery of somesorts for that. |
| 19:43.25 | IriX64 | yeah a space to share what users have done, especially serious users like GM or whoever |
| 19:43.36 | MinuteElectron | GM? |
| 19:43.43 | IriX64 | General Motors |
| 19:44.02 | MinuteElectron | ahh, they use BRL-CAD? |
| 19:44.18 | IriX64 | I don't know who all uses it but that idea |
| 19:44.24 | MinuteElectron | Oh, lol, I see. |
| 19:44.34 | IriX64 | no idea tell them they should :) |
| 19:45.28 | IriX64 | I like your work, i've bookmarked drupal |
| 19:47.18 | IriX64 | heh wallcandy taking shape now |
| 19:50.39 | IriX64 | same site, wallcandy.png heh and my desktop is beautifull |
| 19:52.57 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 19:57.03 | MinuteElectron | I am using irssi - except only on stuff related to brlcad. |
| 19:57.18 | MinuteElectron | Everything else I put on my at home client. |
| 19:57.39 | MinuteElectron | which is ChatZilla. |
| 19:58.01 | IriX64 | They wen't and took chatzilla out of FireFox |
| 19:58.16 | IriX64 | well the windows firefox |
| 19:59.36 | MinuteElectron | I use XUL runner to run ChatZilla. |
| 19:59.51 | MinuteElectron | Firefox isn't the greatest browser - I prefer Opera. |
| 19:59.56 | IriX64 | not familiar with it |
| 20:00.01 | IriX64 | err XUL |
| 20:00.03 | MinuteElectron | Firefox is so memory hungry. |
| 20:00.09 | IriX64 | opera i like |
| 20:00.18 | IriX64 | the chat in opera is nice |
| 20:00.41 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: ChatZilla is written in XUL -firefox runs XUL natively, but you can get external programs which also run it. |
| 20:00.51 | *** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593789.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:00.53 | MinuteElectron | I like to introduce my friends to IRC using Opera as a few of them have it. |
| 20:01.06 | RodGallowGlass | me too |
| 20:10.49 | IriX64 | prefer MIrc because of instant access to urls tho |
| 20:11.06 | IriX64 | opera has that too |
| 20:33.17 | IriX64 | back to work |
| 20:45.08 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593789.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:42.37 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: apologies on the delays, was obviously out all day yesterday :) |
| 22:44.29 | brlcad | GM has in the past used BRL-CAD, though they also had/have their own internal CAD package that they used for ages |
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| 06:15.59 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Cool. |
| 06:16.22 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: There is still a problem with my crontab - the one for www executes fine, but mine doesn't. |
| 06:19.18 | MinuteElectron | Also, is it ok to set the crontab of www to my e-mail address as some tasks need sudo www, |
| 06:47.35 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: checking your crontab now |
| 07:38.02 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:48.19 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I checked and your crontab is indeed running, so something is wrong with your crontab entries |
| 07:49.01 | brlcad | at a glance, they run correctly, so I'd suspect it's probably your path |
| 07:49.26 | brlcad | cron does not run with a user path, it's very minimal by default, so it probably can't find mysqldump |
| 07:49.54 | brlcad | that said, the server already performs automatic backups of the mysql databases too .. |
| 08:00.30 | brlcad | ah, it's the subshell execution, not allowed |
| 08:06.51 | *** join/#brlcad ken (n=442ae895@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 08:07.19 | brlcad | you'd have to either wrap in a script or just some other means to rotate |
| 08:24.26 | Laniakea | brlcad: do you use (document) scanners in work? |
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| 15:15.26 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: you get my notes from last night? |
| 15:46.20 | MinuteElectron | yes |
| 17:36.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: general cleanup |
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| 17:47.15 | poolio | back :) |
| 17:47.22 | poolio | nothing like 2 hours of driving for 5 minutes of paperwork... |
| 17:53.13 | IriX64 | heh it works, http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 Xming.png :) |
| 17:54.50 | IriX64 | handfull of dll's + Xming, and I've got a product :) |
| 17:56.32 | IriX64 | any decent X-server for win platform actually |
| 17:58.11 | poolio | I don't think _YOU_ have a product ;) |
| 17:58.26 | IriX64 | heh ok ... *we* :) |
| 17:58.46 | poolio | well, you could sell it if you wanted to |
| 17:59.07 | IriX64 | nah, not into money, gets my fingers dirty ;) |
| 17:59.49 | IriX64 | heh Hey Genral Motors, have I got something for you :) |
| 18:01.24 | IriX64 | that windowsirssi.zip on that site is a cygwin compile of ubnix irssi, works here should work anywhere. |
| 18:01.54 | IriX64 | errr unix |
| 18:03.17 | IriX64 | maybe i should change that name |
| 18:03.25 | IriX64 | suggestions? |
| 18:03.47 | poolio | irssi |
| 18:03.54 | IriX64 | thats all |
| 18:03.59 | IriX64 | ? |
| 18:03.59 | poolio | yes. |
| 18:04.05 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 18:04.07 | poolio | irssi is irssi whether it is compiled for unix or windows |
| 18:04.47 | IriX64 | there |
| 18:05.58 | IriX64 | heh overlap tool says havoc has no overlaps, is this accurate? |
| 18:07.46 | IriX64 | even at 1cm there are still no overlaps, are you people that good :) |
| 18:08.30 | poolio | I'd guess there aren't any overlaps. period. |
| 18:08.45 | IriX64 | i think you're right |
| 18:08.46 | IriX64 | . |
| 18:09.47 | IriX64 | .0001 cm agrees with you :) |
| 18:11.16 | IriX64 | if you know anybody who can use that Irssi, spread the site far and wide |
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| 19:43.01 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: irssi4windows |
| 19:43.23 | poolio | so should we have irssi4linux, irssi4bsd, irssi4sun ? |
| 19:43.42 | MinuteElectron | yep |
| 19:43.55 | MinuteElectron | would make a nice loho |
| 19:43.57 | MinuteElectron | *logo |
| 19:44.17 | MinuteElectron | lol |
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| 20:10.39 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron... done :) |
| 20:12.27 | IriX64 | has anybody tried it? |
| 20:13.17 | IriX64 | I'm currently using it to chat with you on my windows box |
| 20:14.21 | IriX64 | CYGWIN_NT 5.1 = pseudo unix :) |
| 20:23.38 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 20:26.12 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 20:36.29 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can I inquire as to what operating suystem the server is running. I am kind-of confused as it works exactly the same as a debian box I have access to - but claims to not be Linux. |
| 20:37.55 | poolio | uname |
| 20:38.35 | MinuteElectron | yeah, it says FreeBSD - but I swear that it is just saying that to trick crackers. |
| 21:12.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: try a smaller larger tolerance for edge hits |
| 21:13.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: duh, destructor virtual for virtual methods |
| 21:15.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: remove dead code; fix edge check bug - not properly checking all edges; still debugging shot routine |
| 21:17.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: add warnings to opennurbs compile |
| 21:18.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: bypass segfaults and broken bezier clipping code |
| 21:19.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: add missing return statements - stupid compiler; debug CloseTo code |
| 21:20.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: add missing return statements |
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| 23:30.24 | poolio | WOAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 23:30.29 | poolio | brlcad: you you.....left!?!? |
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| 01:41.25 | poolio | brlcad: so after rewriting all the code I still get the same problem with corrupting the database |
| 02:18.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: more cleanup, reorder based on call order, remove dead code, add comments |
| 02:25.04 | brlcad | poolio: heh, no .. just freenode relinking servers |
| 02:25.18 | poolio | brlcad: haha |
| 02:25.30 | poolio | brlcad: if I uploaded some files, think you'd have a minute to look at them? |
| 02:25.46 | poolio | I currently have the most bizarre thing I've ever seen |
| 02:26.04 | poolio | I have a line that has a printf statement on it, when I comment out that line it segfaults. When I keep it, it runs. :? |
| 02:29.54 | brlcad | heh, fun |
| 02:30.02 | brlcad | sounds like you've blown the stack somewhere |
| 02:30.23 | brlcad | often pretty hard bugs to track down |
| 02:30.46 | poolio | ah correctomndo, gdb to the rescue |
| 02:30.48 | brlcad | but sure, I'd take a look for a little while (though I'm in the middle of other things to get too involved tonight) |
| 02:31.57 | poolio | brlcad: alright, gimme 2 more minutes and if I can't get it I'll send you the test app and cvs up the files it depends on |
| 02:32.10 | brlcad | gdb is not great at detecting corrupted stack, but good to try |
| 02:33.57 | poolio | it's no longer segfaulting, but same "db5_crack_disk_header() bad magic1 -- database has become corrupted expected x76, got x0 |
| 02:48.34 | poolio | brlcad: Oh no way. I only get the error when copying combinations |
| 02:48.56 | poolio | can I not rt_db_put_internal a combination? |
| 02:50.28 | brlcad | poolio: there's not nearly enough information in your comments to answer that question :) |
| 02:50.30 | poolio | oh I see...I guess my trees weren't properly being modified to point to the renamed shapes |
| 02:51.27 | brlcad | db5_crack_disk_header() is one of the first things that the database loader does to make sure it's actually working with what seems to be a .g file |
| 02:51.47 | poolio | I figured it out I think, I just still haven't found the bug |
| 02:51.53 | brlcad | meaning if that fails, then "something" before that is wrong |
| 02:56.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (9 files): |
| 02:56.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: quell compilation warnings for a slew of switch statements that don't handle |
| 02:56.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: various possible enumeration values. whether this is unimplemented |
| 02:56.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: functionality or cases that will never be encountered in that routine, the |
| 02:56.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: warnings can be quelled by adding a default case that does nothing. |
| 03:07.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: quell exit decl warning |
| 03:08.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g4-g5.c g5-g4.c): quell exit decl warning |
| 03:13.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: quell libpkg compilation warning, the buffer may be modified to add the pkg header so it shouldn't be const |
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| 03:15.35 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse/test.png (thing is marvellous) :) |
| 03:21.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: use bufsize instead |
| 03:31.36 | IriX64 | truck.png is interesting too :) |
| 03:35.47 | poolio | brlcad: I have a general question about stringhandling. If i'm passing around and modifying names, concatenating strings, etc... does brl-cad implement things that might be helpful or is it fine to just use libc standard routiens? |
| 03:43.31 | brlcad | poolio: should either use standard libc routines or libbu's bu_vls strings |
| 03:43.44 | poolio | alright. they don't really need to be vls, so ill stick to libc |
| 03:43.46 | brlcad | (vls == variable length strings) |
| 03:43.52 | poolio | yep |
| 03:44.05 | poolio | brlcad: alright i'm on a roll and am finally getting somewhere, i'm gonna stay up coding :) |
| 03:44.23 | brlcad | if you can't do it without allocating memory ala malloc and friends, you should probably be using a vls |
| 03:44.48 | poolio | well for like naming shapes |
| 03:45.06 | poolio | I currently have a name string and concatenate an integer |
| 03:45.22 | poolio | so I use snprintf a bunch |
| 03:45.33 | brlcad | sure, that's fine |
| 03:45.50 | brlcad | it's whether that n is to a static buffer or something being resized as needed |
| 03:45.58 | brlcad | if it's being resized (ever), it should probably be a vls |
| 03:46.07 | poolio | yeah, i'm not realloc'ing anything |
| 03:46.07 | brlcad | if it's just an array, then you're good |
| 03:47.28 | brlcad | likewise, if the size never changes and it's megs of memory, it should probably be a stack array instead of malloc'd too |
| 03:48.00 | brlcad | s/megs/not megs/ |
| 03:49.16 | poolio | yeah. none of it is malloc'd. I'm defining the buffer size at 256 for now, I'll fix that later |
| 03:52.30 | IriX64 | poolio for 256 bytes why not alloca and let the system automagically free it at exit :) |
| 03:52.52 | poolio | IriX64: that's what I'm doing. "none of it is malloc'd" |
| 03:53.04 | IriX64 | heh ok |
| 03:53.11 | poolio | well no i lied |
| 03:53.13 | poolio | i'm not using alloca |
| 03:53.30 | IriX64 | it's your code man |
| 03:53.35 | poolio | heh, you can patch it for me |
| 03:53.56 | IriX64 | rtfp read the fine patch :) |
| 03:55.38 | IriX64 | roses need watering :) bbiab |
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| 13:26.07 | poolio | mornin. i vow to commit today :) |
| 13:34.43 | Laniakea | When compiling brl-cad, I always did ./configure and never ./configure --enable-optimized as suggested in INSTALL. |
| 13:34.50 | Laniakea | Does it affect the rendering speed significantly? |
| 13:38.44 | poolio | yes. |
| 13:38.54 | Laniakea | how much? |
| 13:39.03 | Laniakea | orders of magnitude? percent? tens of percent? |
| 13:39.09 | poolio | in terms of the VGR I get in benchmark it's around twice as fast |
| 13:39.14 | brlcad | almost 2x usually |
| 13:39.16 | Laniakea | Now I understand why I think it's slow :) |
| 13:39.19 | poolio | brlcad: mornin :) |
| 13:39.55 | Laniakea | brlcad: now I am trying to compile 7.10.0 or however it's called on OpenBSD. If it fails I can then report you the error message. |
| 13:39.57 | brlcad | depends of course on hardware, compiler, alignment, and other issues, but usuallya bout 2x |
| 13:42.23 | poolio | brlcad: i'm just gonna run my database organization by you. The original model data that has the source we're trying to generate is going to be stored in some database, the program gets that database and each generation has its own database. Any suggestions for naming shapes part of a certain region? I was just appending numbers |
| 13:43.17 | brlcad | not really anything major |
| 13:43.19 | Laniakea | brlcad: what kind of optimization is turned on by this option? Compiler optimizations like -O3, -s -fomit-frame-pointer, -fstrength-reduce, -funroll-loops etc.? |
| 13:43.36 | brlcad | maybe include the primitive name as the prefix or a suffix so it's immediately identifiable |
| 13:44.29 | poolio | brlcad: good idea |
| 13:45.21 | Laniakea | *** Warning: linker path does not have real file for library -ltcl85. |
| 13:45.21 | Laniakea | *** I have the capability to make that library automatically link in when |
| 13:45.21 | Laniakea | *** you link to this library. But I can only do this if you have a |
| 13:45.21 | Laniakea | *** shared version of the library, which you do not appear to have |
| 13:45.21 | Laniakea | *** because I did check the linker path looking for a file starting |
| 13:45.24 | Laniakea | *** with libtcl85 and none of the candidates passed a file format test |
| 13:45.26 | Laniakea | *** using a file magic. Last file checked: /home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl85.a |
| 13:45.29 | Laniakea | That's normal or is it a failure sign? |
| 13:45.35 | poolio | Please use a pastebin |
| 13:45.35 | brlcad | Laniakea: it basically goes from unoptimized (-O0) to -O3 |
| 13:45.36 | Laniakea | (the compilation continues) |
| 13:45.37 | poolio | ~paste |
| 13:45.38 | ibot | paste is probably http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 13:45.43 | Laniakea | omg -O0 |
| 13:45.55 | brlcad | default is set for developers |
| 13:47.24 | brlcad | the installation docs have always documented that as well, default is _unoptimized_ |
| 13:47.29 | brlcad | hence the flag for optimized |
| 13:48.59 | brlcad | there have been other flags, but whether they actually add anything usually depends on many factors and can actually slow it down too so it's presently still left up to the person compiling to add more than -O3 |
| 13:49.00 | Laniakea | and I wondered, why all the videos render for weeks :) |
| 13:49.44 | Laniakea | I have system CFLAGS set to -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe. Does it cause optimization when I don't specify --enable-optimized to ./configure? |
| 13:50.39 | brlcad | of course, you can set the flags directly |
| 13:51.03 | brlcad | in that case enable optimized isn't going to do much at all |
| 13:51.04 | Laniakea | but does the make actually take it over? |
| 13:51.07 | Laniakea | :( |
| 13:51.20 | Laniakea | since some projects ignore these CFLAGS |
| 13:51.30 | brlcad | depends what you mean by "system CFLAGS" |
| 13:51.38 | brlcad | you have to specify it somehow |
| 13:51.47 | Laniakea | it's set in /etc/profile or so by export |
| 13:52.46 | brlcad | that one should retain then if it's exported in your environment, but you'd have to look at the compilation log to be sure |
| 14:12.58 | Laniakea | brlcad: so the errors are here... |
| 14:13.33 | Laniakea | ./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >& std::operator<< <std::char_traits<char> >(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*)' |
| 14:13.37 | Laniakea | ./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >::operator<<(long)' |
| 14:13.56 | Laniakea | and much more undefined references. |
| 14:14.09 | poolio | all from g++? |
| 14:14.38 | Laniakea | They are from /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o comb comb.o librt.la -lc -lm ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la ../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libbn/libbn.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L.. |
| 14:17.04 | Laniakea | Any idea if I need to install some additional library? |
| 14:18.33 | poolio | sounds like it's using gcc when it should be using g++ |
| 14:20.50 | Laniakea | but it's running on comb.o and comb.o has equivalent of comb.c so it should run gcc and not g++, shouldn't? |
| 14:23.17 | poolio | no |
| 14:23.33 | poolio | comb.o is equivalent of an object file, in c or c++, it's just nomenclature. It could be anything |
| 14:23.47 | poolio | I could be entirely wrong though, I'd wait for brlcad to return and solve all your problems. |
| 14:23.50 | Laniakea | why should it run g++? |
| 14:24.01 | Laniakea | where is brlcad? On the toiler? |
| 14:24.03 | Laniakea | toliet? |
| 14:24.20 | poolio | No, he's working his ass off, like he does every day. So be patient, maybe find something else to do, and wait for a response. |
| 14:25.48 | Laniakea | I want to compile newest brl-cad because the old one rendered contour drawings incorrectly and they repaired it after I reported it |
| 14:26.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: rt_bufsize is in a header we don't use, so just define something |
| 14:28.27 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Want a search box in the footer and at the top or just at the top? |
| 14:28.57 | Laniakea | poolio: are you brlcad's coworker? |
| 14:29.15 | poolio | kind of. |
| 14:29.21 | Laniakea | MinuteElectron: and you too> |
| 14:29.38 | MinuteElectron | Laniakea: I am the website developer. |
| 14:29.47 | Laniakea | MinuteElectron: of the new upcoming website? |
| 14:29.52 | MinuteElectron | Very new around here, yes. |
| 14:30.07 | Laniakea | MinuteElectron: I can't wait for that |
| 14:30.15 | MinuteElectron | It is available at http://my.brlcad.org/ - but bear in mind it is still under development. |
| 14:30.33 | MinuteElectron | (nearly ready to port it to MediaWiki and populate the site though) |
| 14:30.46 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-064-107.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 14:46.59 | Laniakea | brlcad: did you see the error? |
| 15:23.30 | brlcad | Laniakea: yes |
| 15:24.21 | brlcad | it is a c++ matter, attempting to link the first app that uses librt (and your compilation is specified to use openNURBS) |
| 15:24.39 | Laniakea | brlcad: do I need to install openNURBS? |
| 15:24.54 | brlcad | it already compiled it |
| 15:25.12 | Laniakea | brlcad: what I should do to make it compile? |
| 15:25.30 | brlcad | are you on head? |
| 15:25.38 | Laniakea | 7.10.0 |
| 15:26.24 | brlcad | hrm, I forget what was done in 7.10.0 -- after libopenNURBS.la, it "should" also say -lstdc++ |
| 15:26.34 | brlcad | assuming the configure test passed |
| 15:26.46 | brlcad | do you have libstdc++ installed? |
| 15:27.27 | Laniakea | /usr/lib/libstdc++.a |
| 15:27.27 | Laniakea | /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0 |
| 15:28.54 | Laniakea | find /usr/include and /usr/local/include -name '*stdc++*' doesn't find anything |
| 15:29.16 | Laniakea | Yes the conffigure passed |
| 15:29.53 | brlcad | grep OPENNURBS src/librt/Makefile |
| 15:30.10 | Laniakea | OPENNURBS = ${top_builddir}/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la ${LIBSTDCXX} |
| 15:30.10 | Laniakea | OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/openNURBS |
| 15:30.10 | Laniakea | BREP_CPPFLAGS = -DOBJ_BREP=1 $(OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS) |
| 15:30.25 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: PM? |
| 15:30.45 | Laniakea | brlcad: -lstdc++ doesn |
| 15:30.49 | Laniakea | t occur in the Makefile |
| 15:31.07 | brlcad | grep "LIBSTDCXX =" src/librt/Makefile |
| 15:31.24 | Laniakea | LIBSTDCXX = |
| 15:31.34 | Laniakea | (the rest of line is empty) |
| 15:31.40 | brlcad | according to that, the test failed |
| 15:31.55 | Laniakea | you mean the ./configure failed? |
| 15:32.05 | brlcad | no |
| 15:32.13 | brlcad | the configure test for -lstdc++ |
| 15:32.28 | Laniakea | so should I rerun configure and figure out why? |
| 15:32.34 | brlcad | configure runs hundreds of tests for functionality |
| 15:32.41 | brlcad | that is one of them, and it failed for some reason |
| 15:32.47 | brlcad | look in config.log |
| 15:33.08 | brlcad | search for lstd |
| 15:33.24 | brlcad | mine has: |
| 15:33.25 | brlcad | configure:31387: checking for main in -lstdc++ |
| 15:33.25 | brlcad | configure:31411: gcc -o conftest -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lstdc++ >&5 |
| 15:33.28 | brlcad | configure:31417: $? = 0 |
| 15:33.31 | brlcad | that means it succeeded |
| 15:33.43 | brlcad | if it fails, there will be a huge section below it with details on why |
| 15:34.40 | Laniakea | libstdc++ test failed because of missing -lm: |
| 15:34.52 | Laniakea | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:35.06 | Laniakea | and the error messages are like /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0: undefined reference to `log' and all possible math functions |
| 15:36.17 | brlcad | interesting, ok |
| 15:36.19 | Laniakea | log, sqrt, cosh, finitef, cos, tanh, sin, atan2, pow, sinh, log10, exp, tan |
| 15:36.58 | Laniakea | so brlcad has to be compiled with LDFLAGS=-lm ./configure --enable-optimized? |
| 15:37.15 | Laniakea | That should be written in the README |
| 15:37.16 | brlcad | you have a stdc with unresolved symbols, first I've seen of that |
| 15:37.28 | brlcad | that shouldn't be written in the readme |
| 15:37.37 | brlcad | it can be accommodated |
| 15:37.50 | brlcad | i.e. adjusting configure.ac is best |
| 15:38.45 | Laniakea | well the libstdc++, if using pow etc., must necessarily have unresolved symbols, doesn't? |
| 15:38.49 | brlcad | which OS are you on? openbsd? |
| 15:39.02 | brlcad | no, it could resolve the symbols |
| 15:39.06 | Laniakea | Otherwise all the libm code would have to duplicated inside libstdc++, wouldn't? |
| 15:39.18 | brlcad | you can have libraries with or without resolved symbols |
| 15:39.19 | Laniakea | But the resolution is done only by the dynamic linker, isn't it? |
| 15:39.26 | brlcad | usually low-level libraries are fully resolved |
| 15:39.31 | Laniakea | What does it mean, library with resolved symbols and without? |
| 15:39.40 | brlcad | otherwise, you have to link against all of their dependency libs regardless |
| 15:40.16 | Laniakea | resolved symbol means that instead of "pow", an absolute address is written in that place in libstdc++? |
| 15:40.39 | brlcad | it means exactly that -- there are symbols in the library .. they are either defined as in they have an address to code or they do not (man ld, nm, ar) |
| 15:40.49 | brlcad | basically, yes |
| 15:40.59 | brlcad | depending on what you mean by absolute |
| 15:41.33 | brlcad | regardless, it uses pow, so the library resolves the symbols for pow() in that library by providing the definition |
| 15:42.07 | Laniakea | but if you link with a different version of -lm than against which it was resolved and the symbols are in different places, then it segfaults |
| 15:42.23 | brlcad | huh? |
| 15:42.38 | Laniakea | because there are already absolute addresses in libstdc++ |
| 15:42.41 | brlcad | it doesn't need/use -lm if it's a resolved symbol |
| 15:42.49 | brlcad | it's resolved |
| 15:42.57 | brlcad | there's no external linkage |
| 15:43.07 | Laniakea | well when libstdc++ calls pow, the pow() code must be present |
| 15:43.24 | Laniakea | if the executable code is missing at the given address and the address is execute, it will segfault |
| 15:43.39 | brlcad | yes, and it must either be present and link or run-time depending on how one compile |
| 15:43.40 | Laniakea | so the libm must be loaded by the ld.so or how it's called |
| 15:44.33 | Laniakea | and if you upgrade your -lm the addresses may change and the it will execute somewhere from half instruction or so and perform things that were not intended |
| 15:44.33 | Laniakea | with likely segfault resulting |
| 15:44.41 | brlcad | your assertion that it'll segfault is only true if that address is executed, which is wouldn't -- the dynamic linker would abort on most systems |
| 15:44.53 | brlcad | you're still referring to unresolved symbols |
| 15:44.54 | Laniakea | so the dynamic linker tests the version? |
| 15:45.05 | brlcad | there is NO dynamic linking occurring if it's resolved |
| 15:45.22 | brlcad | it has the code to pow, it could inline it for all you care and make there be no pow() at all |
| 15:45.42 | Laniakea | so the pow code is stored inside of libstdc++? |
| 15:45.54 | brlcad | yes, some form of it |
| 15:46.02 | brlcad | hence.. "resolved" |
| 15:46.08 | Laniakea | anyway, brl-cad ./configure must be IMHO rewritten to include -lm on the test for libstdc++ |
| 15:47.14 | brlcad | seriously, that was what I'd said 10 minutes ago |
| 15:47.27 | Laniakea | you said I can adjust it somewhere |
| 15:47.38 | Laniakea | or it could test whether the symbol is resolved or not and adjust accordingly |
| 15:48.13 | Laniakea | and also pass -lm when linking with -stdc++, or not? |
| 15:48.27 | brlcad | ehm, I'm familiar with what I wrote -- it's just a few lines above .. i said it can be accommodated |
| 15:48.37 | brlcad | i.e. the fact that your lib isn't resolved can be accommodated |
| 15:49.28 | brlcad | seriously, what's with the tone? |
| 15:50.09 | Laniakea | tone is not transmitted through electronic communication, that was proven by some study |
| 15:50.53 | Laniakea | what was interesting in the librt makefile there was double -lm, like -lm -lm |
| 15:51.00 | Laniakea | that's an anomaly, isn't it? |
| 15:51.15 | Laniakea | I'm trying to recreate the Makefile now |
| 15:51.23 | brlcad | ok, arrogant phrasing then .. |
| 15:51.34 | brlcad | either way, it's not the first time |
| 15:51.45 | Laniakea | I don't want to sound arrogant |
| 15:52.18 | Laniakea | It's the property of electronic media. I read an article where they showed that the impression people get from electronic communication has no correlation what the writer intended |
| 15:52.31 | Laniakea | i. e., it's 50:50. Exactly like throwing dice. |
| 15:53.23 | Laniakea | yeah. src/librt/Makefile: BN_LIBS = ${top_builddir}/src/libbu/libbu.la -L${top_builddir}/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85 -lm -lm |
| 15:54.18 | brlcad | in general, that's certainly true -- in practice, particularly on IRC, there are trends and language that while each individual statement could be taken several ways 50/50, the accumulation of them generate personality |
| 15:54.49 | Laniakea | no they showed that the emotions read out from electronic text are completely random. No reliability or correlation at all. |
| 15:55.06 | brlcad | that's the arrogance I'm referring to, btw |
| 15:55.25 | brlcad | certainty that you're right based on .. something you read |
| 15:55.27 | Laniakea | That's what the scientific study concluded |
| 15:55.38 | brlcad | with little no consideration that there are other data points? |
| 15:56.02 | Laniakea | well my experience shows that the study was right |
| 15:56.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (6 files): partially working tree implementation. still some bugs to work out... |
| 15:56.34 | brlcad | and if you were to see a study that shows what I'd said was _also_ true? |
| 15:56.52 | brlcad | it's not a black and white world, rarely ever |
| 15:57.12 | Laniakea | well then assume I am arrogant |
| 15:57.24 | Laniakea | I have no intention to be arrogant when writing this so you are getting a false feeling |
| 15:57.56 | brlcad | i'm only responding to your words, regardless of your intent (as perceived or not) |
| 15:58.35 | Laniakea | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:58.39 | Laniakea | now I am trying this... |
| 15:58.45 | brlcad | that should work |
| 15:59.01 | Laniakea | I had to do this also with other programs under OpenBSD |
| 15:59.02 | brlcad | similarly using your existing configure and just adding -lm to the libs |
| 15:59.16 | Laniakea | which libs where? In Makefile? configure? |
| 15:59.18 | brlcad | i.e., make LIBS=-lm |
| 15:59.29 | Laniakea | aha |
| 15:59.36 | Laniakea | and LIBS that's some generic mechanism of make? |
| 15:59.43 | poolio | brlcad: bu_bomb always crashes my system. it stalls on saving stack trace...and i have to kill -9 it. any suggestions? |
| 15:59.44 | brlcad | of automake |
| 16:00.02 | brlcad | poolio: it's waiting on the debugger to attach |
| 16:00.06 | poolio | ah |
| 16:00.35 | poolio | I guess once the code is workign I shouldn't have to worry about it |
| 16:00.39 | brlcad | you can turn that off, and probably should if you're debugging something that causes it frequently |
| 16:01.58 | brlcad | poolio: curious, is HAVE_KILL defined for you in include/brlcad_config.h ? |
| 16:02.39 | poolio | yes |
| 16:04.47 | Laniakea | now it booms on: |
| 16:04.51 | brlcad | hrm, then the indefinite wait is unintentional, the child should send the parent a signal |
| 16:05.01 | Laniakea | /home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl85.a(tclStrToD.o)(.text+0x226f): In function `TclDoubleDigits': |
| 16:05.04 | Laniakea | /home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/generic/tclStrToD.c:1822: undefined reference to `log' |
| 16:05.14 | Laniakea | but why doesn't it link with -lm when I specified LDFLAGS=-lm? |
| 16:05.38 | brlcad | what's your link line? |
| 16:05.40 | Laniakea | make LIBS=-lm gets it through this one, however |
| 16:06.01 | brlcad | oh, you mean setting ldflags before configure |
| 16:06.06 | Laniakea | gcc -pipe -g -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -Wl,-export-dynamic tclAppInit.o -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85 \ -Wl,-rpath,/usr/brlcad/lib -o tclsh |
| 16:06.50 | Laniakea | the more places you set -lm in, the higher probability there is that it links math library where you want ;-) |
| 16:07.05 | brlcad | tcl does it's own thing with the flags |
| 16:07.14 | brlcad | their build system overrides a lot |
| 16:07.36 | Laniakea | now, another one: |
| 16:07.37 | Laniakea | gcc -pipe -g -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -Wl,-export-dynamic tkAppInit.o -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix -ltk85 \ -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85 -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXss -lXext -Wl,-rpath,/usr/brlcad/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib -o wish |
| 16:08.30 | Laniakea | /home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/libtk85.a(tkEntry.o)(.text+0x4a2a): In function `ComputeFormat': |
| 16:08.34 | Laniakea | /home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/generic/tkEntry.c:4346: undefined reference to `log10' |
| 16:08.51 | Laniakea | any idea how I could fake -lm into the commandline? |
| 16:08.59 | Laniakea | alias gcc="gcc -lm"? |
| 16:09.19 | Laniakea | doesn't work :( |
| 16:09.32 | brlcad | heh, right, that only works during link |
| 16:09.39 | brlcad | as either an ldflag or a libs |
| 16:09.45 | Laniakea | replace /usr/bin/gcc with a script :) |
| 16:10.13 | brlcad | it got past tclsh/wish before you changed configure |
| 16:10.21 | *** join/#brlcad cad49 (n=4a2edebf@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:14.38 | poolio | brlcad: where does OVERLAP output come from? |
| 16:14.50 | Laniakea | brlcad: do you know where the -lm should be added permanently in the brlcad source? |
| 16:15.09 | brlcad | poolio: from the application struct overlap handler |
| 16:15.49 | brlcad | Laniakea: yes, though it should have worked as a configure parameter |
| 16:16.06 | brlcad | ./configure LIBS=-lm --enable-optimized |
| 16:17.20 | poolio | brlcad: if two objects are unioned, there shouldn't be any overlap, correct? |
| 16:17.54 | brlcad | depends how they are unioned |
| 16:18.08 | Laniakea | brlcad: OK, trying that one... |
| 16:18.10 | brlcad | a union of two regions could certainly have overlaps |
| 16:18.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: hrm, for some reason the child isn't getting the signal so regardless, don't wait indefinitely for the child to send the signal. only wait up to a minute for a debugger to attach. |
| 16:18.25 | poolio | brlcad: a union of two sphers that touch each other, does that have "overlap" ? |
| 16:18.48 | brlcad | shooting an rt_i against two spheres can have an overlap (as it will make regions for you) |
| 16:19.31 | poolio | well, I have a combination, it's the union of two sphers that overlap. doesn't that combination not have any overlap? |
| 16:20.05 | brlcad | it does only because there are no regions defined |
| 16:20.24 | poolio | wait. so would it be better to store it in a region? |
| 16:20.24 | brlcad | librt creates regions for you, and happens to create them at the primitive level if none are defined |
| 16:20.39 | brlcad | that, or override the overlap handler |
| 16:20.50 | poolio | ah I see, yeah. |
| 16:20.54 | brlcad | you don't really care about overlaps |
| 16:21.07 | brlcad | just define/set the callback like hit/miss |
| 16:21.14 | poolio | Ah I see, I hadn't set a default overlap handler, it used the default, and that's where the output came from |
| 16:21.20 | brlcad | yep |
| 16:21.22 | poolio | If I use a region I don't get the overlap output |
| 16:21.25 | brlcad | bitches by default :) |
| 16:21.39 | poolio | so I might as well just do that instead of writing a null overlap handler |
| 16:22.01 | brlcad | dunno, you really don't need regions |
| 16:22.11 | brlcad | conceptually, you're matching shapes |
| 16:22.19 | brlcad | which are regionless groupings |
| 16:22.31 | poolio | yeah, but I don't care how the shapes are stored |
| 16:22.46 | brlcad | if you used that shape in something and that thing becomes a region, you won't have overlaps |
| 16:22.50 | poolio | the point of combinations is just two group the shapes and allow CSG operations |
| 16:23.19 | poolio | So I'm just saying in my program, it's easier as a region, (disregarding any sort of conceptual reasons for using regions vs combinations etc..) |
| 16:23.34 | brlcad | easier as in less code? |
| 16:23.45 | brlcad | i'll give ya that, sure :) |
| 16:23.58 | brlcad | though setting the handler to null is just one line :) |
| 16:26.48 | poolio | yeah fair enough |
| 16:27.01 | brlcad | hmm |
| 16:27.08 | brlcad | problem though.. that means your segments are wrong |
| 16:27.19 | brlcad | unless you compensate |
| 16:27.23 | brlcad | which would be tricky |
| 16:27.26 | poolio | jij |
| 16:27.28 | poolio | oops. huh? |
| 16:27.55 | poolio | oh because the segments aren't part of hit, they go to overlap? |
| 16:27.58 | brlcad | librt is creating regions for you, so for two overlapping spheres, you're not going to get one long segment, you'll get two overlapping segments |
| 16:27.59 | poolio | so I need to proces overlaps then |
| 16:28.16 | brlcad | or just make it a region, and it'll do it for you |
| 16:28.30 | poolio | alright. so I'd say just leave it as a region? |
| 16:28.35 | brlcad | sure |
| 16:28.52 | brlcad | btw, I forgot about rt_bound_tree() |
| 16:29.07 | brlcad | computes the bounding box of a given union tree |
| 16:29.28 | brlcad | might be of use |
| 16:30.37 | poolio | well rt_bound_tree() is called when you extrat the rt_i from the db |
| 16:30.48 | brlcad | right |
| 16:30.58 | brlcad | it's more if you needed to recompute based on in-mem geometry |
| 16:31.06 | brlcad | without writing out to disk or somesuch |
| 16:31.09 | poolio | yeah |
| 16:31.23 | poolio | I'm doing a lot of read from disk, modify, write over and over |
| 16:31.30 | Laniakea | brlcad: still compiling... |
| 16:31.40 | poolio | It might be better to just keep in memory and write |
| 16:31.52 | poolio | and eliminate the need for reading from disck |
| 16:31.58 | poolio | hrmph. *disc / *disk |
| 16:32.13 | brlcad | poolio: grep SIGCHLD /usr/include/sys/signal.h |
| 16:33.28 | poolio | nadda |
| 16:33.40 | poolio | oh wait |
| 16:34.09 | poolio | nope, still nothing. |
| 16:34.43 | brlcad | hm, that could potentially be why |
| 16:34.49 | brlcad | grep -r SIGCHLD /usr/include/* |
| 16:36.46 | poolio | it's in /usr/include/asm-[generic,i486,x86_64]/signal.h |
| 16:37.52 | brlcad | k |
| 16:39.02 | poolio | would you like more system info or are you good? |
| 16:40.59 | poolio | brlcad: so I'm trying to write an object to a new database with a different name. The issue I think I'm having is that I'm using db_rename() and it modifies the in-memory database object list. Is there a way to write an internal object with a different name without modifying the db_i? Like just modify the dp? |
| 16:41.16 | poolio | (dp = struct directory *) |
| 16:45.08 | brlcad | i'm good for now, trying to see why the debugger would hang like that |
| 16:45.19 | brlcad | s/debugger/backtrace routine/ |
| 16:45.45 | poolio | alright, just tell me if I can do anything |
| 16:51.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if libstdc++ fails to link, see if it's because of libm (encountered by Laniakea on OpenBSD) |
| 16:56.01 | Laniakea | brlcad: still compiling... :) |
| 16:57.31 | brlcad | that should take care of it |
| 16:57.43 | brlcad | it trys with -lm if it fails without it |
| 16:58.19 | brlcad | though I suspect you might have a bigger system issue if libc is the same way.. then setting a global libs (like you're running now) is really required |
| 16:58.23 | brlcad | and specific to that plat |
| 17:01.26 | poolio | brlcad: I'm having an issue if I rename a directory * pointer, it somehow modifies the in-memory database representation? |
| 17:07.54 | MinuteElectron | silly css foolishness. |
| 17:09.13 | brlcad | poolio: a directory pointer? how you renaming it? |
| 17:09.39 | poolio | First I had db_rename() |
| 17:09.45 | poolio | and I saw that rehashes the db_i |
| 17:10.05 | poolio | so now I'm using RT_DIR_FREE_NAMEP() and RT_DIR_SET_NAMEP() macros |
| 17:27.13 | poolio | brlcad: I'm still stuck. Can't see why I'm getting the bug :\ |
| 17:27.19 | brlcad | poolio: still not sure I understand the problem .. those macros only set the name of the directory pointer in memory |
| 17:29.15 | poolio | Yeah, that's what I thought. |
| 17:29.32 | poolio | The problem is that I run a routine that copies a shape to a new databse with a different name |
| 17:29.52 | poolio | the issue is when I re-run this on the same shape and try to copy it toa new database with a different name, I get a db_lookup failure on the shape I"m trying to copy |
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| 17:35.14 | brlcad | poolio: can you make a simple test case snippet that shows this? |
| 17:35.21 | poolio | brlcad: just did |
| 17:35.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c): more reasonable debugging output |
| 17:35.25 | poolio | brlcad: I just updated CVS |
| 17:35.30 | poolio | Well it's not a simple test case |
| 17:35.36 | poolio | but it's the issue in the context of the entire program... |
| 17:35.37 | brlcad | yeah, i mean stand-alone |
| 17:35.52 | brlcad | still should be able to reproduce it with just a couple lines, no? |
| 17:36.11 | poolio | I'm willing to bet the test case will work fine though :P |
| 17:37.15 | brlcad | I suspect the lookup fails because you've changed the name, and either don't write it out correctly/fully or are otherwise creating an inconsistent db_i |
| 17:38.36 | poolio | yeah that's probably it, just have been looking pretty hard and haven't found anything |
| 17:43.16 | Laniakea | brlcad: now it compiles, thanks |
| 18:13.12 | Laniakea | brlcad: compiles and installs, but explodes when mged is ran: |
| 18:13.13 | Laniakea | version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 18:13.14 | Laniakea | MGED Aborted. |
| 18:13.36 | Laniakea | rt however runs |
| 18:13.48 | Laniakea | (at least prints the help) |
| 18:13.55 | Laniakea | rtedge as well |
| 18:14.01 | Laniakea | rtweight too |
| 18:31.36 | poolio | brlcad: I have a test case if you have a minute. |
| 18:32.46 | poolio | brlcad: how would you like it? pastebin? |
| 18:36.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: capture stderr so that the kern.exec message is not displayed (on os x) during sysctl |
| 18:36.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: make sure the string we're trying to print isn't null or empty, don't write the stacktrace message to the tty. |
| 18:38.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: |
| 18:38.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: flush the output before sending the signal so that the parent should be |
| 18:38.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: guaranteed to have something to read. this should hopefully fix a race |
| 18:38.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: condition where the child would never get the signal to continue. fixed </> |
| 18:38.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: logic bug so we now actually wait a minute instead of immediately continuing. |
| 18:40.28 | poolio | brlcad: Fixed. thanks! |
| 18:40.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/mged/cmd.c src/mged/cmd.h NEWS): make 'bomb' an actual new command, passing through to bu_bomb(). very useful for debugging, tracing, and aborting from scripts abruptly. |
| 18:41.13 | poolio | (bu_bomb, not my annoying whatever it is) |
| 18:46.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: make all platforms use the same code for creating std in/out/err file channel handlers, using the newer Tcl_MakeFileChannel instead of Tcl_CreateFileHandler. keep track of how many events we process for debugging. |
| 18:49.05 | poolio | brlcad: I'm guessing rt_db_get/put_internal does something to the database as well as the directory pointer |
| 19:01.18 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/wODjDo87.html have a problem here |
| 19:01.29 | IriX64 | brb |
| 19:02.14 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601584.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:02.28 | IriX64 | how do I fix that |
| 19:03.50 | IriX64 | if I enable tcl-build will they co-exist? |
| 19:08.25 | IriX64 | trying it |
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| 19:32.26 | iraytrace | Hola Que tal? |
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| 20:44.19 | poolio | brlcad: I'm off for the day, but maybe sometime earlier tomorrow you can give me a hand troubleshooting this. I've got a test case that demonstrates the problem too |
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| 21:23.50 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/controlpanel.png heh it works :) |
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| 21:28.38 | cadguy | Good afternoon all |
| 22:06.41 | brlcad | poolio: okay, sounds good .. post up the test case somewhere where I can get to it |
| 23:04.18 | ``Erik | bahhhhhhhh |
| 23:04.30 | ``Erik | I forgot I turned off my hot water tank when I left, so now I have to wait for my shower *sigh* |
| 23:11.56 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/works.png :) as i said it works |
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| 23:47.34 | louipc | neat-o |
| 23:57.26 | IriX64 | louipc? Toronto? |
| 00:00.20 | IriX64 | Sympatico serves us out of Sudbury (along with most of the north) trough Sudbury |
| 00:20.14 | ``Erik | damn canucks |
| 00:20.57 | ``Erik | 8.5a6 as in tcl? an installed version? I still build tcl and tk with my builds :/ |
| 00:32.37 | IriX64 | yeah man it does not pass |
| 00:33.02 | IriX64 | trying to build the supplied libs now |
| 00:46.04 | louipc | IriX64: yep |
| 00:46.18 | louipc | I finally got my phone/net connection fixed |
| 00:46.45 | louipc | I had to call 3 times and get 3 repairmen to come |
| 01:03.58 | IriX64 | heh 3rd times.... :) or is that 3 strikes you're out :) |
| 01:07.55 | IriX64 | blargh reboot time... l8r |
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| 04:22.01 | poolio | brlcad: you still up? |
| 04:32.12 | brlcad | of course |
| 04:33.22 | poolio | brlcad: want to have a look at the problem I was having from before? (test case) |
| 04:37.55 | brlcad | sure |
| 04:41.08 | poolio | brlcad: Can I just email you the .c file and a simple .g ? |
| 04:41.16 | brlcad | you have access to .bz? |
| 04:41.34 | poolio | nope |
| 04:41.51 | brlcad | huh, wierd |
| 04:41.53 | poolio | I don't know what it is so I doubt I have it |
| 04:41.59 | poolio | or I could have it and jus tnot know about it |
| 04:42.16 | brlcad | nope, you're right .. you don't |
| 04:42.33 | poolio | is this a freenode thing? |
| 04:42.50 | brlcad | no, it's an account on the project server |
| 04:43.28 | poolio | this: http://bz.bzflag.bz/ ? |
| 04:43.29 | brlcad | machine's fqdn is bz.bzflag.bz but is aka my.brlcad.org among other names |
| 04:43.45 | brlcad | .bz or mbo for short |
| 04:44.00 | poolio | alright. and what type of access am I getting / how can I use it? |
| 04:44.39 | brlcad | it's a pretty comprehensive account with a lot of resources |
| 04:45.01 | brlcad | details and rest of setup in priv |
| 05:38.25 | brlcad | got it |
| 05:38.30 | poolio | alright |
| 05:38.31 | brlcad | and nah, it's fine |
| 05:38.37 | poolio | k |
| 05:39.14 | poolio | can you see the issue or would you like a little explanation? |
| 05:39.26 | poolio | the issue might just be me misunderstanding how the lookup/internal routines work |
| 05:46.32 | poolio | I previously used rt_db_lookup_internal instead of db_lookup/rt_db_get_internal but moved to the latter in hopes of eliminating the error/issue |
| 05:53.28 | brlcad | ahha |
| 05:53.39 | poolio | uh oh. |
| 05:53.49 | brlcad | the same reason that db_rename wouldn't work for you, similar exists for renaming that dp you looked up |
| 05:54.19 | poolio | but how? I thought renaming the dp only changed the dp, how is it effecting the in-memory db? |
| 05:54.41 | brlcad | the db_i holds the directory |
| 05:55.02 | brlcad | db_lookup scans the directory hash in the db_i, and returns the pointer to that directory pointer |
| 05:55.16 | brlcad | so when you modify it, you've modified the current db_i |
| 05:55.20 | poolio | ahhh |
| 05:55.34 | poolio | so is there any way around it other than changing the dp back to the original name? |
| 05:55.45 | brlcad | hence the next lookup fails, because the entry is no longer in the directory hash |
| 05:56.46 | brlcad | let me see if I can find it, there's a few ways to get a copy |
| 05:57.23 | poolio | a copy of the dp? It seems like it's just as efficient to copy the name, change the name, write to new database, change the name to original name |
| 05:59.10 | brlcad | hm? |
| 05:59.21 | brlcad | the dp is an entry from the first db_i |
| 05:59.40 | brlcad | if you modify it in any way, you're modifying the directory for the first db_i (which you probably don't want) |
| 06:00.08 | poolio | correct. so in terms of most efficient / least space, wouldn't it make the most sense to just rename it and then change it back to its original name? |
| 06:00.21 | poolio | well I don't really want that, but it's acceptable |
| 06:02.15 | brlcad | hm, that might work, but you'd probably need to dig a little deeper into db_put_internal to be certain |
| 06:04.08 | brlcad | the approach taken elsewhere is to do the lookup on A to get the dp, do a db_get_external for his representation, do a db_diradd on B (which gives you a new dp), then db_put_external to write the copy |
| 06:04.22 | brlcad | that same approach should work for internal format too |
| 06:06.34 | brlcad | the issue with the internal, though, is that it keeps track of the object's offset in the file, so need to make sure db_put doesn't use it |
| 06:07.13 | poolio | although that solution looks more elegant it looks to be a lot more overhead :) |
| 06:07.43 | brlcad | these are all pretty lightweight calls |
| 06:09.53 | poolio | ah. I get the offset problem anyway, both calls work but I guess the internal objects have the same offset |
| 06:12.06 | poolio | so how would I go about fixing the offset issue? just keep a counter of what offset we're at in the database? |
| 06:12.53 | brlcad | hm, i was actually just looking at put_internal and don't see where offset would be a problem |
| 06:13.10 | poolio | well in my updated test case only the second object appears |
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| 06:14.14 | brlcad | ah, never mind, I found it |
| 06:17.37 | brlcad | yeah, you're going to have to use what I'd said |
| 06:17.55 | brlcad | get the external form, write that out into the second after doing a db_diradd |
| 06:19.52 | poolio | hmm. I can't seem to remember why I was using internal anyway...I'll have to read the structs later |
| 06:20.20 | brlcad | see src/librt/wdb_obj.c:2973 for an example that does this in a single db_i, but should work almost as-is for two db_i's |
| 06:21.07 | poolio | thanks :) |
| 06:24.12 | poolio | brlcad: alright, my eyes hurt, I'll get it all working tomorrow. Thanks again for the help and hosting |
| 06:25.27 | brlcad | aiight |
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| 08:35.19 | Laniakea | brlcad: clock@kestrel:~$ mged |
| 08:35.20 | Laniakea | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 08:35.20 | Laniakea | version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 08:35.20 | Laniakea | MGED Aborted. |
| 08:35.30 | Laniakea | brlcad: any idea what's going wrong? |
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| 12:46.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: added NewDoubleObj and NewIntObj |
| 13:01.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: |
| 13:01.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: added missing return statement |
| 13:01.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: made sign() static |
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| 14:35.34 | poolio | brlcad: Is there an internal->external method? |
| 14:36.03 | poolio | I saw the external to internal one, and the export method on the internal, but using the ft_export() function it appears to corrupt the database |
| 14:36.19 | poolio | and If I read an external, run external->internal, and modify the internal, then write the external, nothing is changed |
| 14:38.06 | poolio | brlcad: hmm, I think the problem I was having with the export method was that there's more to do. I was just copying the <5 database routine, but the db5 routine has much more stuff. it looks like I'm going to have to copy/modify that |
| 15:59.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c population.h): fixed issue with renaming directory pointers, combination trees are now supported |
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| 16:54.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/doc/brep.txt: Initial BREP primitive document; contains info on concepts and development status of the primitive |
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| 17:15.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: make NumIntersections iterative instead of recursive; perform thirds split when split bounds get too close - may need to be adjusted to a different criterion later |
| 17:19.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: oops, fabs (not abs) |
| 17:31.37 | *** join/#brlcad lude0 (n=lude@Ra79f.r.pppool.de) | |
| 17:32.21 | lude0 | howdy folks! |
| 17:36.33 | lude0 | i got an error afer i built brlcad from cvs saying: dyld:Symbol not found: _TkStatePrintProc |
| 17:37.00 | lude0 | does anybody know what that means |
| 17:38.43 | brlcad | howdy lude0 |
| 17:39.22 | brlcad | lude0: yeah, that's a libtk linkage issue with brl-cad's libtclcad |
| 17:40.10 | brlcad | i believe that error is fixed on the latest cvs head sources |
| 17:42.58 | lude0 | yippey, when will it be released? |
| 17:43.07 | brlcad | "soon" :) |
| 17:43.24 | brlcad | still have to get the replacement spline working |
| 17:43.42 | brlcad | soon as in a couple days, however long it takes to get the beziers rendering |
| 17:44.14 | lude0 | so there are a few more bugs er? |
| 17:45.37 | lude0 | if i try the mac os bin i get en error "wrong architecture" Im working on an intel based mac |
| 17:46.08 | lude0 | any idea about that? |
| 17:46.17 | brlcad | it's not a bug, it's just a change being made to one of the panels |
| 17:47.04 | brlcad | yeah, the mac os x binaries were last released before the intel build and apple's dist of X11 has a bug that makes opengl apps not work under rosetta on intel macs |
| 17:47.18 | lude0 | grml... |
| 17:47.19 | brlcad | you can still run console mode, iirc (mged -c) |
| 17:47.30 | brlcad | as well as the other command-line apps |
| 17:48.14 | lude0 | i never used brlcad so im not firm in it anyway... |
| 17:56.00 | lude0 | thx for your help... |
| 17:56.22 | brlcad | no problem |
| 17:56.56 | brlcad | the documentation on the website is a good starting point and easily several hours of "training" needed for getting familiarized |
| 17:57.50 | brlcad | there are docs installed with the binary distributions in the share/brlcad/version doc and html subdirectories, even cover running in "mged -c" classic mode |
| 18:07.15 | Laniakea | brlcad: any idea what's with the mged? |
| 18:07.47 | Laniakea | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 18:07.47 | Laniakea | version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 18:07.47 | Laniakea | MGED Aborted. |
| 18:10.44 | lude0 | by |
| 18:10.49 | *** part/#brlcad lude0 (n=lude@Ra79f.r.pppool.de) | |
| 18:15.28 | IriX64 | Laniakea mine says version mismatch for tcl, have 8.5a6 need 8.4-8.5 |
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| 18:20.41 | IriX64 | Laniakea mine says version mismatch for tcl, have 8.5a6 need 8.4-8.5 or words to that effect, did you use system libs too? |
| 19:00.06 | IriX64 | try re-installing tcl/tk i guess (8.5a5 that is ) i'll be back |
| 19:19.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Sorry about the slowness reegarding the website this week. I misjudged things totally and now have several huge things I have to finish soon. Hopefully this weekend I will get a day 09:00 => 00:00 of nearly uninteruptted coding so should be able to finish off most of the stuff I have to do and maybe get round to populating the wiki and drupal. |
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| 21:20.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/doc/brep.txt: couple more notes |
| 21:22.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/plot3.h: add common.h; enable explicit C linkage |
| 21:22.31 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: no problem, thank you for your persistance.. it's coming along bit by bit :) |
| 21:23.05 | poolio | brlcad: I'm out for the evening, ta ta :) |
| 21:23.28 | brlcad | poolio: any progress? looked like you got tree copying working |
| 21:23.42 | poolio | tree copying working. this afternoon I tweaked the GA |
| 21:23.51 | poolio | The linDiff function wasn't working quite right |
| 21:23.57 | poolio | and then I tried to get it to work using just reproduction but that failed |
| 21:24.11 | brlcad | cool |
| 21:24.12 | poolio | Tomorrow I'll try to get mutation up and running, and then crossover :) |
| 21:24.16 | brlcad | how's it doing crossover? |
| 21:24.18 | brlcad | ah, not yet |
| 21:24.19 | poolio | Once all that is working I'll test it out |
| 21:24.21 | poolio | crossover is easy |
| 21:24.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: add support for plotting rays and intersection points to stdout during debug - see why we get the wrong thing! still can't see the individual points yet |
| 21:24.28 | poolio | Just pick two nodes on two trees, and swap them |
| 21:24.46 | brlcad | easy as pi |
| 21:24.48 | poolio | or pick a node on one tree, and a node on the second, and move the node from the firs tree to the node on the second, wiping out the node on the second |
| 21:24.57 | poolio | Well it seems pretty easy not that it's in a nice tree format |
| 21:25.15 | poolio | mutation is what's going to be the pain -- writing a case for each shape, modifying the specific data, etc... |
| 21:25.33 | brlcad | swapping nodes with a percentage of new "material injection" should do the trick |
| 21:25.37 | poolio | once all that is up and going a lot of work is going to be put into tweaking the GA, modifying the approach a little, etc... |
| 21:25.56 | poolio | not sure what you mean by new material injection? |
| 21:26.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: add an "earlier" check for small clipping segments (value stolen from Stay's code)... haven't tested it yet |
| 21:26.27 | poolio | Well, I can try that too. Would be interesting, and it's closer to the standard bit string encoding |
| 21:26.53 | poolio | alright I have to go, seeing Harry potter 8) but I'll be on late tonight. Hopefully this week will continue to be productive |
| 21:29.28 | brlcad | oh it came out tonight? |
| 21:30.26 | brlcad | ah, so it did |
| 21:30.35 | brlcad | ooh, playing on imax |
| 21:33.02 | brlcad | btw, i was entirely kidding about tweaking the encoding bits -- almost certainly would not work as the encoding is not like "standard bit string encoding" as there are massive subsets of bit manipulations that are "poison" in that they would represent geometry that is entirely "impossible"/invalid/useless |
| 21:33.55 | brlcad | would be like tweaking a DNA sequence a GTACGGTTCA and ending up with something other than G, T, A, or C .. it's off the problem domain |
| 21:48.43 | dtidrow_work | http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/11/1246250 - will it blend.... |
| 22:33.01 | dtidrow_work | http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=novell - this one has an especially funny quip in it ;-) |
| 22:34.16 | dtidrow_work | make sure BOFH doesn't get one of these, or else his users will start to 'disappear'... |
| 22:55.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: prevent 'inverted' min/max bounds from causing autoview to become -INFINITY or otherwise negative in size, this fixes bad behavior in mged where autoview of an empty sketch was causing bad view parameters. |
| 23:13.36 | tarzeau | hah 7.8.0 works! |
| 23:15.40 | tarzeau | /usr/brlcad/bin/ |
| 23:15.40 | tarzeau | zsh: do you wish to see all 433 possibilities (109 lines)? |
| 23:15.42 | tarzeau | how do i start it? |
| 23:18.32 | tarzeau | hm sorting the dir size of files is helpful... |
| 23:19.14 | ``Erik | 'mged' is probbly a good start |
| 23:19.37 | ``Erik | bofh++ |
| 23:23.13 | ``Erik | "if you find yourself fantasizing about throwing actual users in the blender; please get help. They're heavy." |
| 23:23.44 | dtidrow_work | yeah, that was where I was roflol |
| 23:26.00 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 23:26.07 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:26.26 | dtidrow_work | not for that reason, though - for their unholy alliance with M$... |
| 23:35.15 | louipc | glass dust don't breathe it! |
| 04:47.53 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 04:47.53 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 04:59.31 | poolio | off to sleep, ta ta. |
| 05:09.14 | brlcad | see ya poolio |
| 06:09.59 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 06:23.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs.h opennurbs_curve.h): include assert.h, thx louipc |
| 08:00.34 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:08.06 | brlcad | woo hoo! bezier curves are now rendering nicely |
| 08:08.10 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:08.48 | yukonbob | =) |
| 08:10.15 | brlcad | goodbye custom tk mod |
| 08:12.17 | Laniakea_ | brlcad: could you please advise me on this error? |
| 08:12.21 | Laniakea_ | clock@kestrel:~$ mged |
| 08:12.21 | Laniakea_ | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 08:12.21 | Laniakea_ | version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 08:12.21 | Laniakea_ | MGED Aborted. |
| 08:12.55 | brlcad | sounds like you've got an inconsistent build |
| 08:13.16 | brlcad | half linking against the sources provided and partially against something already installed |
| 08:13.49 | brlcad | already installed seems to be reporting 33 during a package require, it should be 3.3 |
| 08:18.49 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea1 (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:36.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/skt_ed.tcl: (log message trimmed) |
| 08:36.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: reimplement bezier curve drawing for the sketch editor so that it no longer uses |
| 08:36.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the tkCanvasBezier custom tk modification, instead just using simple tk line |
| 08:36.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: segment drawing, but sampling/evaluating the bezier as needed. code for |
| 08:36.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: calc_bezier was taken directly from the C code and is of course a bit slower |
| 08:36.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: since it's in tcl, but certainly fast enough for most purposes where the degree |
| 08:36.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: of the bezier curve is relatively low. that should be pulled back to C land as |
| 08:37.52 | Laniakea1 | brlcad: what should I do to make mged work in 7.10.0? |
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| 14:57.15 | poolio | late start today :\ had to redo paperwork... |
| 14:57.37 | poolio | brlcad: you're up late, geez. |
| 15:18.48 | brlcad | poolio: :) |
| 15:22.40 | poolio | brlcad: which should I do first: mutation or crossover? have your pick :) |
| 15:35.09 | poolio | crossover it is. |
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| 16:23.15 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 17:33.17 | poolio | brlcad: ugh. as with everything I seem to be having issues. |
| 17:57.07 | brlcad | yeah crossover ;) |
| 18:18.09 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 18:30.37 | poolio | brlcad: I'm having the same issue I was having with renaming now. Trying to modify the union tree without writing it to the database... |
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| 19:35.38 | MinuteElectron | lol, I have had the same two files open for the past week. |
| 19:37.21 | poolio | have they changed? |
| 19:37.27 | poolio | a CSS and an html? |
| 19:37.38 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 19:37.45 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron, week? here total uptime usually doesn't get past a couple of hours :) |
| 19:38.00 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: On brlcad's server. |
| 19:38.11 | MinuteElectron | poolio: correct. |
| 19:38.16 | IriX64 | thought you meant on your pc |
| 19:38.30 | MinuteElectron | no, lol - mine foes off every night (wish it didn't though) |
| 19:38.53 | IriX64 | i don't even have to do anything, just seems to "happen" |
| 19:39.00 | MinuteElectron | hehe |
| 19:40.42 | IriX64 | warning brlcad doesn't appear to be installed yet... DOH!! I know that i'm *trying to install you :) |
| 19:42.02 | IriX64 | i'll install it that'll fix that problem :) |
| 19:45.03 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron: Winfreeze takes on whole new meaning here :) |
| 19:45.31 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 19:45.37 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 19:47.53 | IriX64 | make -i |
| 19:48.08 | IriX64 | sorry |
| 19:48.22 | MinuteElectron | lol |
| 19:50.04 | MinuteElectron | Don't you just hate it when stuff that should Just Work (tm) doesn't. |
| 19:51.10 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron, I hate it more when it has undocumented features that shut your system down |
| 19:51.10 | MinuteElectron | :{ |
| 19:51.10 | MinuteElectron | *:P |
| 19:53.33 | IriX64 | now I have two manuals to read tonight, how to use irssi and how to use brlcad :) |
| 19:54.04 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 19:54.16 | poolio | irssi is easy |
| 19:54.23 | poolio | brlcad...not so much |
| 19:54.27 | MinuteElectron | indeed, just go with the flow |
| 19:54.35 | MinuteElectron | in irssi /help is your friend. |
| 19:54.44 | IriX64 | intuitive i like it :) |
| 19:55.07 | IriX64 | lots of command in irssi |
| 19:55.12 | IriX64 | +s |
| 19:55.26 | MinuteElectron | lol |
| 19:56.09 | IriX64 | methinks I hear a soul chortling says God :) |
| 19:58.18 | MinuteElectron | test |
| 20:03.42 | AchiestDragon | IriX64: dont forget the microsof undocumented features manual ,, but it wont be mutch help |
| 20:04.05 | IriX64 | man it's all whitespace :) |
| 20:05.04 | AchiestDragon | yes 19300 pages of witespaces ,, at least you wont run out of ink printing it out |
| 20:05.27 | IriX64 | thought that was the system API list |
| 20:08.47 | IriX64 | my stomach is snarling at me, i'll be back in a bit |
| 20:16.26 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-104-202.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:26.41 | IriX64 | are there any example geometry files available to test this thing with? |
| 20:30.44 | IriX64 | thanks people, sorry to have troubled you. |
| 20:52.37 | poolio | brlcad: i'm gonna punch myself in the face again. The reason for my confusion was i had the parameters of one routine as (child, parent) and the other one was (parent,child) and I was calling them with the wrong pointers :\ |
| 21:15.34 | SuperTaz | poolio: always use a standardized calling convention ;) |
| 21:15.48 | poolio | Yeah, yeah. |
| 21:16.12 | poolio | Some of the other brl-cad libraries aren't standardized and it's a pain having to look up the prototypes each time...my memory is awful like that |
| 21:36.03 | *** join/#brlcad Alejandro (n=be30b2f3@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:36.34 | poolio | brlcad: Hmm, I think I'm too frustrated to see the problem. I'm out for a while. |
| 21:41.26 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 21:51.14 | *** join/#brlcad alejandro (n=alejandr@190.48.178.243) | |
| 21:51.19 | alejandro | hello |
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| 22:14.50 | louipc | hi |
| 22:16.39 | emtpyc | hello |
| 22:55.33 | brlcad | hola alejandro |
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| 23:10.49 | IriX64 | ``Erik, I'm so happy, I finally got into that april g file :) |
| 23:24.51 | *** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 23:57.25 | louipc | brlcad: I think you uploaded the same opennurbs.h as before :D |
| 00:01.32 | poolio | louipc: is the assert error still there? |
| 00:01.59 | louipc | yeah |
| 00:03.37 | poolio | hmm |
| 00:03.57 | poolio | I think he just added the header to opennurbs_curve.h when he meant to add it to opennurbs_system.h |
| 00:04.20 | louipc | or opennurbs.h |
| 00:05.05 | poolio | no, opennurbs.h is just for the opennurbs header files |
| 00:05.44 | louipc | ah |
| 00:05.51 | poolio | I'm going to add it to opennurbs_system.h and remove it from the other one, one sec |
| 00:09.26 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:15.06 | poolio | louipc: should be fixed, cvs update and it should be good |
| 00:15.24 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_system.h opennurbs_curve.h): include assert.h moved from opennurbs_curve.h to opennurbs_system.h |
| 00:48.32 | alejandro | brlcad are u there? |
| 01:48.32 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@155.101.198.193) | |
| 03:00.22 | alejandro | Making all in bwish |
| 03:00.23 | alejandro | make[2]: Entering directory `/usr/brlcad/src/bwish' |
| 03:00.23 | alejandro | gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-cmd.o `test -f 'cmd.c' || echo './'`cmd.c |
| 03:00.23 | alejandro | gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-input.o `test -f 'input.c' || echo './'`input.c |
| 03:00.25 | alejandro | gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-main.o `test -f 'main.c' || echo './'`main.c |
| 03:00.29 | alejandro | gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-tcl.o `test -f 'tcl.c' || echo './'`tcl.c |
| 03:00.35 | alejandro | /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC --silent --mode=link gcc -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o btclsh btclsh-cmd.o btclsh-input.o btclsh-main.o btclsh-tcl.o ../../src/libtclcad/libtclcad.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -lXss - |
| 03:00.40 | alejandro | lXext -lX11 -lX11 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltclstub8.5 ../../src/librt/librt.la -lc -lm ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la ../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libdm/libdm.la -lpng -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 ../../src/libfb/libfb.la ../../src/libbu/l |
| 03:00.44 | alejandro | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 03:00.46 | alejandro | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice' |
| 03:00.48 | alejandro | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent' |
| 03:00.50 | alejandro | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices' |
| 03:00.52 | alejandro | any ideas?? |
| 03:02.00 | poolio | alejandro: Do not paste that much text. Use a pastebin in the future. |
| 03:04.17 | alejandro | okis! |
| 03:04.19 | alejandro | sorry! |
| 03:05.52 | poolio | alejandro: It looks like your X libraries do not have some certain routines that are required |
| 03:08.11 | alejandro | how can i solved this? |
| 03:08.31 | alejandro | I ve search over the net and no answers! |
| 03:09.44 | alejandro | i am using fedora 7 |
| 03:15.25 | poolio | i'm not sure, your best bet is to wait for brlcad to come back. He's the guru. |
| 03:16.12 | alejandro | ok, thanks! i will continue trying |
| 03:18.58 | louipc | poolio: ok thanks |
| 03:24.05 | poolio | louipc: did it compile? that might have been worth testing before committing... |
| 03:24.58 | louipc | I'm testing it |
| 03:25.27 | louipc | but someone has a lock on src/off so I'm waiting to update |
| 04:25.44 | brlcad | alejandro: more specifically, it looks like you're missing a specific X11 library on that link line -- what version of BRL-CAD are you compiling there? |
| 04:44.41 | SuperTaz | brlcad: was it as funny as it looks? |
| 04:47.26 | brlcad | hehe, yeah, it's pretty good |
| 04:47.39 | brlcad | right in league with Pixar's other films |
| 05:27.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: (log message trimmed) |
| 05:27.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: WOO HOO... tkCanvasBezier, the custom Tk extension that has complicated matters |
| 05:27.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: for getting into apt, portage, fink, and more is now no longer needed. The |
| 05:27.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: sketch editor's bezier drawing code was rewritten to no longer use that canvas |
| 05:27.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: and instead just draw using ordinary Tk line segments, but evaluating the bezier |
| 05:27.52 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: curve directly just like the canvas was doing. This was the last feature |
| 05:27.54 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: holding up release 7.10.2 so we're now on the green light for compilation and |
| 05:31.26 | louipc | yahoo |
| 05:39.04 | brlcad | no kidding, that's been a LONG time coming |
| 05:39.49 | brlcad | almost worthy of 7.12 in and of itself, but not quite |
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| 20:21.45 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/doc/brep.txt: Add a few more updates for things I thought of today; fix some wording |
| 20:23.39 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Muck with tolerances a bit (they may not be the problem right now - i'm currently thinking its a trimming issue) |
| 20:25.33 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: tightened up the surface flatness (trying to solve the problem where bboxes don't fully enclose all points on their subsurface); expanded degenerate bboxes (i.e. for planar surfaces) |
| 20:26.36 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: add note |
| 20:28.37 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: add more data for debugging and hit processing (i.e. label oob hits and record the subsurface bounding volume); add plotting routines for debugging shotlines graphically in MGED |
| 20:30.22 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: mod subsurface bounding box calculations, i.e. sample more elements of the surface to try and include more points; expand bounding boxes a bit to overlap; expansion should be model size dependent (but it's not) |
| 20:32.55 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: quell my openNURBS debugging statements |
| 21:11.29 | brlcad | awesome |
| 21:11.48 | brlcad | coverity has agreed/offered to do a code analysis on brl-cad |
| 21:12.54 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: looking snazzy :) |
| 21:13.46 | MinuteElectron | :) - the website? |
| 21:13.53 | brlcad | yep :) |
| 21:13.56 | MinuteElectron | thxs |
| 21:14.59 | MinuteElectron | still got to fix the tabs, get rid of that horizontal line in Safari, Fx and Opera, finish the footer and add the box with text in to the header. |
| 21:15.15 | MinuteElectron | and fix the sidebar, it looks ugly atm |
| 21:16.53 | brlcad | yeah, there probably won't be a login on the main page, as that's not really central to operations .. it'd probably have a page of its own and/or be on other sections of the site like the community section |
| 21:17.05 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:21.15 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I am considering scrapping the sidebar altogether - what do you think? |
| 21:24.38 | brlcad | there is certainly content that can go in a sidebar, just matters on the layout |
| 21:25.49 | MinuteElectron | From what I can tell the only content that will be going in the sidebar (even on the MediaWiki side of things) is the adminisration navigation which is far from important. Can you suggest anything? |
| 21:25.50 | brlcad | i'd say try it out, see what you like |
| 21:25.57 | brlcad | hard to say without more content populating |
| 21:26.34 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:30.15 | brlcad | Things that come to mind are quick-links to the most requested content (like downloads, specific documents), and items that show activity (maybe recent comments, recent new documents, syndication feeds) |
| 21:31.10 | brlcad | a summary graph of benchmark performance, for example, would make a great little panel for the main page (which would take you to the benchmark database site, of course) |
| 21:31.39 | brlcad | random geometry or image of the day might be another if it can be done tastefully |
| 21:32.10 | MinuteElectron | kl |
| 21:33.33 | MinuteElectron | Okay, I am frustrated at CSS - I will do more work on the site tomorrow but I am frustrated now. |
| 21:35.22 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:35.29 | brlcad | something I can help with maybe? |
| 21:35.42 | brlcad | i'm no css guru to say the least, but i can pretend |
| 21:37.23 | MinuteElectron | heh. either my image is broken or the css is broken - I can't tell because I have been up for over 14 hours and can't concentrate. |
| 21:37.31 | brlcad | ahh, hehe |
| 21:37.41 | brlcad | corner2.png I presume |
| 21:37.53 | MinuteElectron | yeo |
| 21:37.57 | MinuteElectron | *yep |
| 21:38.11 | MinuteElectron | the image displays in my browser - so i think it is the css |
| 21:38.31 | brlcad | yeah, I think so |
| 21:39.07 | MinuteElectron | I have this: <a id="searchcorner"></a> |
| 21:39.39 | MinuteElectron | and a css id style for adding the corner2 background image and positiioning it at top:10px;left:210px; |
| 21:40.08 | MinuteElectron | ok, 10px is not a good value |
| 21:40.25 | MinuteElectron | that would be hidden byt eh entire header. |
| 21:42.16 | MinuteElectron | ok, still not working. |
| 21:42.26 | brlcad | hm |
| 21:43.14 | brlcad | you did the top corner with a style and id on an a tag |
| 21:43.41 | brlcad | maybe do the same and tag it off the button |
| 21:43.42 | MinuteElectron | yeah, that was because that corner needs to change when that page is visited. |
| 21:43.44 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:43.48 | MinuteElectron | I will try. |
| 21:44.24 | MinuteElectron | dammit |
| 21:44.32 | MinuteElectron | It would help if I invoked position:absolute; |
| 21:46.13 | MinuteElectron | and if I gave it a height and width |
| 21:47.59 | brlcad | ahh |
| 21:48.12 | brlcad | woot, there it is :) |
| 21:48.26 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 21:48.49 | dtidrow_work | somebody had a Homer moment? ;-) |
| 21:49.00 | MinuteElectron | yeh lol |
| 21:49.06 | brlcad | mm.. donuts |
| 21:53.35 | MinuteElectron | ooh ooh look now |
| 21:54.43 | brlcad | haha, awesome |
| 21:54.48 | brlcad | ~minuteelectron++ |
| 21:56.00 | brlcad | oop, it's layered above the menu |
| 21:56.07 | MinuteElectron | ... |
| 21:57.00 | brlcad | course if a tab was selected, it's probably still look just as odd compressed |
| 21:57.21 | MinuteElectron | I don't understand. |
| 21:57.44 | brlcad | make your window small so the tabs underlap the search |
| 21:58.24 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 21:58.26 | brlcad | minor detail, it's fine :) |
| 21:58.26 | MinuteElectron | One sec. |
| 21:59.36 | MinuteElectron | fixed |
| 21:59.49 | MinuteElectron | well, not really |
| 22:00.22 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:00.23 | MinuteElectron | maybe if I made the search box a few pixels lower. |
| 22:00.44 | brlcad | yeah, it's have to not include the white line, then could stay on top |
| 22:07.05 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: fixed |
| 22:08.06 | brlcad | heh, damn |
| 22:08.19 | MinuteElectron | damn? |
| 22:08.23 | brlcad | damn nice |
| 22:08.27 | brlcad | you're quite |
| 22:08.32 | brlcad | s/quite/quick/ |
| 22:08.43 | MinuteElectron | heh, getting used to CSS layers now. |
| 22:08.44 | brlcad | so thoughts on the direction? |
| 22:08.51 | MinuteElectron | direction? |
| 22:08.53 | brlcad | design/look/feel |
| 22:08.58 | MinuteElectron | ahh, |
| 22:09.23 | MinuteElectron | well at the moment I think it looks good, only the footer to go mainly - thinking \. style. |
| 22:09.33 | MinuteElectron | would make a nice contrast. |
| 22:09.56 | MinuteElectron | teh sidebar is ugly though - still not sure about it |
| 22:10.17 | MinuteElectron | and the tabs need aligning and the line underneath them removing |
| 22:10.18 | brlcad | I think simple ovals would probably work out nice |
| 22:10.27 | brlcad | flat shaded |
| 22:10.33 | MinuteElectron | in the sidebar? |
| 22:10.37 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:10.39 | brlcad | for the blocks |
| 22:10.59 | MinuteElectron | that can be done. |
| 22:11.03 | brlcad | just a thought though, there are lots of possibilities |
| 22:11.27 | brlcad | I can try something if you like or can leave it in your hands, whatever works for you :) |
| 22:13.29 | MinuteElectron | we can collaborate I guess, you are far better at graphic manipulation than I am - perhaps if you can put together a few corner pieces - that would be nice. Also a different colored header of the blocks would look nice. |
| 22:15.50 | brlcad | you mean like where a section label might go? |
| 22:16.29 | MinuteElectron | hmm, let me find an example. |
| 22:17.10 | MinuteElectron | http://www.google.com/ig - each of the blocks has a header with a different color - I can imagine something like that but with curves. |
| 22:17.49 | brlcad | mkay, i'll try some things |
| 22:18.02 | MinuteElectron | kl |
| 22:50.26 | MinuteElectron | So tired. I will fix the minor bugs in the site and add a footer tomorrow. Goodnight. |
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| 00:52.07 | IriX64 | hi |
| 00:55.07 | IriX64 | I wonder if this has been reported, creating a metaball crashes mged |
| 00:55.42 | IriX64 | version 7.8.4 is mine |
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| 05:30.08 | thing0 | hey yall |
| 05:36.52 | brlcad | howdy thing0 |
| 05:45.24 | thing0 | how you been brlcad? |
| 05:45.35 | brlcad | pretty good, busy like crazy |
| 05:45.40 | thing0 | hehe |
| 05:45.46 | thing0 | yeah work is quite intense |
| 05:45.52 | thing0 | barely get time to stop and eat |
| 05:45.54 | thing0 | hehe |
| 05:47.41 | brlcad | oh, my belly indicates that I do still find time for that |
| 05:47.52 | brlcad | though I don't usually stop even when eating ;) |
| 05:48.50 | thing0 | hehe |
| 05:48.52 | thing0 | yeah |
| 05:49.06 | thing0 | it just means I have to wonder back to the office to get the food |
| 05:49.17 | thing0 | I worked through lunch yesterday getting materials for a job |
| 05:49.36 | thing0 | but I fly out this wednesday |
| 05:49.42 | thing0 | so I get to have a break for a while |
| 05:51.18 | thing0 | had two paid days off last week |
| 05:51.25 | thing0 | cause of acid plant startup |
| 05:51.39 | thing0 | it started up with no issues once one of the lines were unblocked |
| 05:52.12 | thing0 | it is very good for the company I work for |
| 05:52.12 | thing0 | shows we are competent |
| 05:52.12 | thing0 | ;) |
| 05:55.00 | brlcad | acid plant? |
| 05:55.18 | brlcad | you're trippin'? :) |
| 05:57.11 | thing0 | hehe |
| 05:57.16 | thing0 | that's why weren |
| 05:57.23 | thing0 | 't allowed at work |
| 05:57.26 | thing0 | incase of poisoning |
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| 15:54.23 | louipc | morning |
| 16:40.54 | brlcad | howdy |
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| 20:32.17 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/hex.c a little routine written by a friend of my son's to produce capscrews to whatever pitch you want writing out a .g file for you |
| 20:37.06 | brlcad | IriX64: erm, where'd that come from? |
| 20:37.27 | brlcad | seems actually like a useful tool with the right polish |
| 20:37.46 | IriX64 | friend of my sons |
| 20:38.22 | IriX64 | just talked to him, says its yours if you want it |
| 20:39.11 | brlcad | curious how/why he wrote it |
| 20:39.49 | brlcad | also curious that he chose the ascii format instead of libwdb directly :) |
| 20:39.58 | IriX64 | I was fooling with brlcad and he decided to help, he's really good |
| 20:40.08 | IriX64 | asc2g thats why, we're lazy :) |
| 20:42.36 | brlcad | can you get jamie to post it to the patches tracker? |
| 20:42.44 | brlcad | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804 |
| 20:43.09 | brlcad | er, http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804 |
| 20:43.30 | IriX64 | he's doing it |
| 20:44.06 | IriX64 | why patches? |
| 20:44.23 | IriX64 | this is a littl tool |
| 20:45.48 | IriX64 | Irssi is fun :) |
| 20:46.13 | brlcad | it's a change, changes go into the patches tracker |
| 20:46.34 | IriX64 | he thanks you |
| 20:46.35 | brlcad | that gives a means to comment on and document where first-additions come from when it's someone new |
| 20:46.49 | brlcad | thanks me? he wrote it |
| 20:46.54 | brlcad | pretty nifty tool |
| 20:46.54 | IriX64 | understood |
| 20:47.03 | IriX64 | he's *very good |
| 20:47.08 | brlcad | might have to update it to libwdb though |
| 20:47.28 | IriX64 | do what you want to it |
| 20:47.53 | IriX64 | remember if its not taking up disk space it's broken |
| 20:49.22 | IriX64 | permission to do a /ver on some of the channel members (I'm testing a little bit) |
| 20:50.33 | louipc | neat |
| 20:50.45 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: You can do it on me. |
| 20:50.47 | louipc | what kind of screw does it do? |
| 20:50.54 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 20:51.01 | louipc | I was actually thinking of doing something like that eventually hah |
| 20:51.07 | IriX64 | louipc i'm not sure ive never used it |
| 20:51.59 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron i386? time to trade it in :) |
| 20:52.33 | MinuteElectron | it is? |
| 20:52.37 | IriX64 | 0.8.11 is relased i'm running it here |
| 20:52.52 | IriX64 | and freebsd eh? |
| 20:53.04 | MinuteElectron | It is brlcad's server. |
| 20:53.17 | IriX64 | is it really? |
| 20:53.21 | MinuteElectron | I m using it for IRC so that people can contact me about problems with the website. |
| 20:53.33 | IriX64 | ahh I understand |
| 20:53.53 | MinuteElectron | Well, not just IRC> |
| 20:54.00 | IriX64 | of course |
| 20:54.03 | MinuteElectron | I use it to edit the website and the website is hosted on it to. |
| 20:54.15 | louipc | I think debian only goes to i386 too |
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| 20:54.58 | IriX64 | err :P |
| 20:55.05 | MinuteElectron | What is the one after i386? |
| 20:55.19 | IriX64 | z80 ;) |
| 20:55.21 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 20:56.20 | louipc | i586 i686 |
| 20:56.57 | louipc | pentium III is i686 |
| 20:57.14 | louipc | whish is pretty old |
| 20:57.21 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 20:59.14 | MinuteElectron | I have the urge to find out about my computer. |
| 21:00.53 | louipc | the best way is to build it yourself :D |
| 21:01.14 | louipc | then you get all the manuals for your motherboard etc |
| 21:01.16 | MinuteElectron | I bought the motherboard second hand. |
| 21:01.22 | MinuteElectron | It is an ePox or somthing |
| 21:01.33 | MinuteElectron | No manual - just a disk |
| 21:01.49 | louipc | then install unix or a unix-like OS |
| 21:01.56 | MinuteElectron | I have, on the other hard drive. |
| 21:02.12 | MinuteElectron | But I can't get it to work with my wireless network. |
| 21:02.12 | louipc | yeah I didn't know anything until I started using linux, but I still know very little |
| 21:02.54 | louipc | yeah wireless is an issue because they only release drivers for windows |
| 21:03.14 | MinuteElectron | ubuntu comes with the drivers, the trouble is it won't connect to my wirless network (or anyone elses for that matter). |
| 21:04.39 | louipc | they try to go about it by emulating windows in a kernel module called 'ndiswrapper' that you can load windows drivers on. |
| 21:04.53 | MinuteElectron | The druvers work. |
| 21:05.05 | MinuteElectron | And I can't be pissed. |
| 21:05.48 | MinuteElectron | I like Unix-like OSs. |
| 21:05.58 | louipc | :D |
| 21:06.03 | MinuteElectron | And I want to use them. |
| 21:06.07 | MinuteElectron | But Windows Just Works (tm). |
| 21:06.12 | louipc | how do you know if the driver works when you can't connect? |
| 21:06.26 | MinuteElectron | Because it detects the networks. |
| 21:07.22 | louipc | yeah unix-like OSs are a pain in the ass to configure etc... but they don't crash and freeze as much :D |
| 21:07.27 | MinuteElectron | The only thing I hate about Ubuntu: it loaded GRUB onto my computer and now I have to select windows every time I boot up. |
| 21:07.54 | louipc | you can change the grub settings to boot into windows automatically |
| 21:08.00 | MinuteElectron | I can? |
| 21:08.00 | louipc | yep |
| 21:08.25 | louipc | and if you want to boot into something else you just hold shift or something to get to the menu |
| 21:09.35 | louipc | I hardly ever reboot so I haven't really looked into how to do it heh |
| 21:10.08 | MinuteElectron | hehe, I wish I was in that sort of position. |
| 21:10.08 | louipc | but at least you can have windows selected as default. That's easy and straightforward |
| 21:11.06 | louipc | do you have a /boot/grub/menu.lst in your ubuntu install? |
| 21:11.57 | MinuteElectron | *shrug* I never boot into it and I can't tell from inside windows since it is in a Linux file system. |
| 21:12.44 | louipc | MinuteElectron: install Archlinux in it instead then |
| 21:12.56 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:13.59 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 21:14.54 | MinuteElectron | louipc: What Desktop environment does it come with by default? |
| 21:15.00 | louipc | it'll increase your nerd factor by 3x |
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| 21:15.09 | louipc | MinuteElectron: none, you choose |
| 21:15.27 | louipc | yet it's pretty easy to use |
| 21:15.53 | louipc | so you can use gnome, or kde, or whatever you want really after doing the basic installation |
| 21:16.11 | louipc | but... about the wireless I'm not sure |
| 21:16.35 | MinuteElectron | wireless is pretty much essential. |
| 21:16.53 | MinuteElectron | without it I have no internet as I am not allowed to trail cabling all around the house |
| 21:18.24 | louipc | yep well you could set it up via cable then if it works |
| 21:18.34 | louipc | do you know what drivers you need? |
| 21:19.03 | MinuteElectron | zd1211 |
| 21:19.11 | MinuteElectron | I don't have a long enough cable. |
| 21:19.41 | MinuteElectron | Wow, fate. I clicked Random page on the wiki and http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Networkmanager came up. |
| 21:20.10 | louipc | heheh |
| 21:20.10 | louipc | nice |
| 21:23.00 | brlcad | louipc: it looks like it makes standard hex and allen bolts, nuts, and washers using descriptors like M10x50, M8, etc as well as generaized number of faces, height/width |
| 21:23.37 | IriX64 | I know nothing about it other than he assures me it works |
| 21:23.45 | louipc | yeah I noticed the washers |
| 21:24.48 | brlcad | pretty useful actually |
| 21:24.53 | louipc | ah ok I see |
| 21:25.22 | brlcad | very similar to the existing mk_bolt tool |
| 21:25.27 | louipc | could do with button head cap screws (bhcs), flat head and all those other types |
| 21:25.33 | brlcad | have to compare how they both do what they do |
| 21:25.39 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:26.05 | IriX64 | says he'll modify it |
| 21:27.00 | brlcad | IriX64: src/mk/mk_bolt.c is the existing bolt generator, if he matches those other features it provides, it could probably just replace it outright with a better version |
| 21:27.12 | IriX64 | just a sec |
| 21:27.28 | brlcad | might show him how to go about using libwdb too :) |
| 21:27.42 | IriX64 | he didn't look at mk_bolt, but he'll look and do what he can |
| 21:28.13 | brlcad | his tools already "better" in a couple ways, so it would be nice to see it improved |
| 21:28.16 | IriX64 | I invited him to join but he's shy |
| 21:28.43 | brlcad | aww, he should |
| 21:28.58 | IriX64 | heh i don't pressure children |
| 21:29.51 | IriX64 | hangs out in #linux on efnet |
| 21:31.02 | brlcad | then he already knows the ropes ;) |
| 21:31.07 | IriX64 | and chains :) |
| 21:31.33 | JRogers | brlcad: Is this Sean? |
| 21:31.33 | brlcad | he's clearly capable coder to get as far as he's got, he could work on brl-cad more :) |
| 21:31.40 | brlcad | JRogers: howdy, and yes |
| 21:32.18 | brlcad | ah, docbook, hoey! :) |
| 21:32.23 | JRogers | brlcad: I just got your email in response to the Doc Writer. Im interested in taking it on |
| 21:32.30 | JRogers | yes |
| 21:32.41 | brlcad | excellent |
| 21:32.41 | IriX64 | brlcad: very capable but what he works on is up to him :) |
| 21:32.51 | brlcad | IriX64: that's always the case in open source |
| 21:33.15 | brlcad | you can ask, you can beg, you can bribe, but you can't make anyone do anything ;) |
| 21:33.27 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:33.33 | louipc | or volunteering :P |
| 21:34.15 | brlcad | JRogers: so what do you need from me to get started? |
| 21:34.17 | IriX64 | but if you want something done the absolute fastest least effort way give it to a (competent) lazy slob to do ;) |
| 21:35.05 | JRogers | I have been looking at some of the docs that i could find. Is there somewhere that holds the whole collection? |
| 21:35.24 | brlcad | not really, which is part of the problem |
| 21:35.30 | brlcad | they are in different places in different formats |
| 21:35.38 | brlcad | and depending on the format usually determines where they are at |
| 21:36.05 | brlcad | the manpages are spread throughout the sources, usually provided alongside the tool's code (and there are about 300 manual pages) |
| 21:36.57 | brlcad | the html pages are in the doc/html directory and includes a mix of tutorial, overview, release notes, and more |
| 21:37.28 | brlcad | there are text docs in the top-level (which will probably remain text), but also in the doc/ dir which could be docbookified or not |
| 21:38.00 | JRogers | ok... Are you going to want to have the docs integrated right into the source tree and set to compile with the main progs? |
| 21:38.05 | brlcad | there are troff docs in the doc/ dir too, a long guide to mged, and a few other tools |
| 21:39.16 | brlcad | there is a massive tutorial series that is natively in ms word format, which is what you find pdf's of on the website for numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 |
| 21:39.28 | brlcad | JRogers: yeah, that will be ideally what we end up with |
| 21:39.40 | brlcad | so they can be version controlled, updated as needed with the sources, etc |
| 21:40.07 | brlcad | probably add a configure option to enable/disable their generation since they'll depend on external tools (unless you have another idea for managing that) |
| 21:40.14 | JRogers | ok.. Let me start by getting a copy of the source tree and take a look from there. |
| 21:40.48 | brlcad | if you want a document to "start with", that'd probably be the html doc link #1 on the website, it's a fairly brief overview with a handful of images |
| 21:41.10 | brlcad | I have that in english and italian, and maybe a copy in spanish somewhere |
| 21:41.54 | JRogers | Latest Docbook standard (v5 i believe) |
| 21:42.40 | brlcad | it's still candidate release, but good enough :) |
| 21:43.55 | brlcad | there's something to be said for considering docbook lite, have you used it? |
| 21:44.05 | JRogers | ok... Let me start taking a look around and see what im up against. Any idea's on what options re formats your going to want. I would guess HTML, PDF. |
| 21:44.31 | JRogers | Not really used it much but i am willing to use whatever you want |
| 21:44.34 | brlcad | yeah, html, pdf, and plain txt for starters |
| 21:44.59 | brlcad | i'm not stuck on lite, i've just seen it in use more and more |
| 21:45.43 | brlcad | probably makes it simpler for document writers, but then of course constrains how it can be used |
| 21:46.33 | JRogers | Which ever way you want to go... To me its just all a subset of xml anyways and the only difference to me is what tags are available |
| 21:48.47 | JRogers | ok.. just took a quick look at the light standard and its fine by me.. Why don't we start with that and see if it will cover our needs |
| 21:49.09 | brlcad | e.g. http://www.producingoss.com/ was written using lite |
| 21:49.51 | brlcad | though they didn't use any images/diagrams |
| 21:53.44 | JRogers | ok... that should be enough to get me started. Are the msword docs (that the 4 pdfs where made from) on sourceforge? |
| 21:55.05 | brlcad | they're not really available anywhere as i've not wanted those to "get out" cept to folks working on the project (on tasks like this) |
| 21:55.48 | JRogers | ok. eventually i will need a copy of those. |
| 21:58.21 | JRogers | if possible though can you email me the first one |
| 22:00.14 | louipc | yar I converted one to html |
| 22:00.21 | louipc | no images though :( |
| 22:02.05 | JRogers | that will do. i might be able to pull the images off the pdf |
| 22:03.13 | louipc | http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGEDs.html |
| 22:04.35 | brlcad | louipc: cool, did I know that? |
| 22:05.35 | louipc | I just did it right now :D |
| 22:06.17 | brlcad | nice, that's a decent start towards docbook format |
| 22:06.40 | brlcad | just needs to be broken out into all the separate sections, reference images, tables, etc |
| 22:07.05 | JRogers | he makes it sound so easy... lol |
| 22:07.16 | louipc | there's pdftohtml in a package called poppler |
| 22:07.43 | brlcad | no image extraction though, eh? |
| 22:08.44 | JRogers | ok.. i gotta take off but i will get started on looking through some of this stuff tonight. |
| 22:09.06 | louipc | it does have image extraction but that one I did is kind of odd just a sec |
| 22:10.11 | brlcad | JRogers: cool, and thanks for jumping in |
| 22:10.29 | JRogers | no worries.. i was bored and needed a new project to work on. |
| 22:10.36 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:10.53 | JRogers | louipc: if you get one with images can you just replace the other one |
| 22:11.04 | brlcad | we're hurting for bodies, with a line of wants and demands at the door :) |
| 22:11.24 | JRogers | once i get started im going to need devel access to the source tree for ver control |
| 22:11.26 | louipc | http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/ |
| 22:11.47 | brlcad | JRogers: yep, understood, just let me know when and send me your sf id |
| 22:11.57 | louipc | I can play around with it |
| 22:12.01 | louipc | JRogers: sure |
| 22:12.36 | JRogers | cool. l8t all |
| 22:13.41 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2 |
| 22:13.48 | IriX64 | some pictures |
| 22:16.37 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What is the current backup procedure for your server? |
| 22:20.03 | brlcad | the server performs (or at least attempt to perform) a level zero every week, as well as local daily backups of most of the databases |
| 22:20.39 | MinuteElectron | hmm, so the website is safe if the server crashes? |
| 22:20.45 | brlcad | louipc: interesting, though it looks like that pdf was created with background images underlayed |
| 22:20.47 | MinuteElectron | s/crashes/dies |
| 22:20.58 | brlcad | so you can't directly extract the images without the original |
| 22:21.14 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yeah, it should be |
| 22:21.18 | MinuteElectron | ok, |
| 22:21.21 | MinuteElectron | that is good |
| 22:21.28 | louipc | :D |
| 22:22.02 | brlcad | the server it backs up to also has it's own backup processes that go on, full off-site backups usually once a year and local backups every few months |
| 22:22.09 | IriX64 | louipc: have you thought of bringing the images up and screen capturing them to a file? |
| 22:22.20 | louipc | IriX64: what do you mean? |
| 22:22.32 | brlcad | louipc: you want to try off of the original .doc? |
| 22:22.46 | brlcad | see if you can make a different pdf that will capture the images better on conversion? |
| 22:22.49 | louipc | I can capture them in pdf2html I can specify a zoom level too, |
| 22:22.54 | IriX64 | bing the document up on screen and take a screen shot of the area you're interested n |
| 22:23.11 | louipc | pdftohtml I mean |
| 22:23.32 | IriX64 | no something to take a shot of a screen area like i did mine |
| 22:23.36 | brlcad | louipc: I mean the fact that it pulled the whole page here: http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED015.png |
| 22:23.37 | louipc | brlcad: sure I can try I will have to look up how to do it |
| 22:23.44 | louipc | yeah |
| 22:24.01 | brlcad | was that an option, or is there really no separate image for that screenshot |
| 22:24.14 | louipc | I can try to get it |
| 22:24.27 | brlcad | it certainly looks modified and not just extracted |
| 22:24.38 | brlcad | because the bit depth/quality is wrong |
| 22:24.48 | louipc | yeah it's the zoom |
| 22:24.57 | louipc | I suppose |
| 22:32.09 | IriX64 | If you like those pictures, I'll see what I can do about getting this thing working with a handfull of dlls and something like Xming or Xwin32 |
| 22:33.16 | louipc | might just be the rendering library |
| 22:40.36 | brlcad | the coverity report is interesting |
| 22:40.47 | brlcad | can't wait for them to get the whole thing indexed properly |
| 22:41.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Would you mind taking a look at htpd.conf for my.brlcad.org - the .htaccess rewrite rules aren't working. |
| 22:41.14 | brlcad | (it aborted after processing tk) |
| 22:41.31 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: sure |
| 22:41.37 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 22:44.02 | MinuteElectron | HOw long does it take to delete a single shortcut... |
| 22:44.11 | MinuteElectron | Windows is weird. |
| 22:44.20 | louipc | hahh |
| 22:44.45 | MinuteElectron | 1 minute and counting. |
| 22:46.56 | MinuteElectron | And now windows has hung. OMG |
| 22:47.11 | MinuteElectron | Fixed. |
| 22:51.34 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be working |
| 22:51.37 | brlcad | did you turn the engine on? |
| 22:51.57 | MinuteElectron | Oh, no. |
| 22:52.14 | brlcad | <IfModule mod_rewrite.c> |
| 22:52.15 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.20 | MinuteElectron | Ok. |
| 22:52.23 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.25 | brlcad | etc |
| 22:52.28 | MinuteElectron | Wait, I did. |
| 22:53.26 | brlcad | let me enable it for all |
| 22:53.30 | brlcad | see if it helps |
| 22:55.10 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/photonmappedhavoc.png and I'm sorry I interrupted your conversation, sometimes I get too excited for my own good |
| 22:56.09 | IriX64 | roses need watering :) |
| 22:56.13 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: try now |
| 22:56.45 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 22:56.56 | MinuteElectron | no luck |
| 22:59.57 | brlcad | hm, are you sure the problem isn't your rewrite rule? |
| 23:00.31 | brlcad | i know mediawiki, for example, hijacks the rewrite (if you try to do what their docs say, it often won't work as-is) |
| 23:01.35 | MinuteElectron | one sec |
| 23:03.26 | brlcad | i've got mediawiki set up elsewhere on that server with good settings, so there's something to compare against |
| 23:07.39 | MinuteElectron | I have configured MediaWiki - still no luck. |
| 23:14.48 | louipc | hmm yeah I can't seem to get it to convert nicely it's a big buggy |
| 23:14.55 | louipc | *bit |
| 23:25.11 | MinuteElectron | Work on the site in the morning. Goodnight. |
| 23:27.17 | louipc | goodnight |
| 23:36.06 | IriX64 | heh it works with xming :) |
| 23:53.30 | brlcad | thanks MinuteElectron, I'll take a look and see if I can get it to go |
| 01:55.25 | louipc | brlcad: ok I found out how to extract images only http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/ |
| 01:56.21 | louipc | but I might have to put the two together manually... or somehow write a program to |
| 01:59.28 | brlcad | or parse what I just sent you differently ;) |
| 02:00.00 | brlcad | might be easier to do doc->ms_html then strip the ms namespace crap out |
| 02:02.14 | louipc | yeah probably |
| 02:02.33 | louipc | I don't have any MS stuff though :O |
| 02:03.15 | louipc | well those docs need a good combing over anyways right? |
| 02:03.50 | brlcad | a real good one, yeah |
| 02:04.01 | brlcad | need to be broken up into different organization too |
| 02:04.15 | brlcad | OO will do just as fine with MS stuff :) |
| 02:04.19 | louipc | ah quite a job |
| 02:04.29 | louipc | ooh right |
| 02:04.32 | brlcad | or Neo too |
| 02:04.40 | louipc | oh never heard of neo |
| 02:05.20 | brlcad | ah, just an OO fork |
| 02:06.32 | louipc | ah for mac |
| 02:07.47 | brlcad | oh yeah |
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| 02:51.10 | emtpyc | hello all |
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| 03:45.08 | louipc | hey openoffice can save in docbook |
| 03:47.02 | emtpyc | i understand that the openoffice output for docbook is really buggy |
| 03:49.35 | louipc | better than nothing I guess. They're thinking of using docbook to write documentation in but want to extract stuff from the old docs |
| 03:50.49 | emtpyc | yeah, i exchanged emails with sean about possibly trying to take on said project. |
| 03:51.17 | louipc | I'm trying to figure out how to get the images nicely and in the right places |
| 03:51.37 | emtpyc | in .docbook? |
| 03:52.09 | louipc | in whatever, as long as I don't have to manually put in each image hah |
| 03:53.00 | louipc | and as long as it's not doc or pdf :D |
| 03:53.30 | emtpyc | is there an online repository for all of the images that are used in the documentation? |
| 03:54.13 | louipc | I can extract the images, and the text but not the two together properly hah |
| 03:54.36 | louipc | here I extracted some http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/ |
| 03:56.54 | emtpyc | are all the source files in pdf? |
| 03:57.54 | *** join/#brlcad alejandro (n=alejandr@190.48.131.165) | |
| 03:58.35 | louipc | brlcad has some doc files you can has for |
| 03:58.39 | Ale_1001 | hello! |
| 03:58.46 | louipc | they're not distributed though |
| 04:01.15 | brlcad | howdy emtpyc |
| 04:01.42 | emtpyc | hello |
| 04:02.33 | brlcad | and howdy to you too, Ale_1001 |
| 04:03.23 | Ale_1001 | hello brlcad |
| 04:03.34 | Ale_1001 | can you help me? |
| 04:03.43 | Ale_1001 | i am trying to compile brlcad |
| 04:03.46 | brlcad | that's hard to say without knowing the problem ;) |
| 04:04.00 | brlcad | which version? |
| 04:04.05 | brlcad | which operating system? |
| 04:04.19 | Ale_1001 | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20060202.html.gz |
| 04:04.26 | Ale_1001 | look at the end |
| 04:04.33 | Ale_1001 | i have the same problem |
| 04:04.49 | Ale_1001 | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 04:06.07 | Ale_1001 | when compiling /usr/src/bwish |
| 04:06.22 | Ale_1001 | /usr/brlcad/src/bwish |
| 04:07.09 | brlcad | okay, that sounded like an X11 library missing from the link line |
| 04:08.48 | Ale_1001 | [root@localhost .libs]# strings libdm.so |grep XFreeDeviceList |
| 04:08.48 | Ale_1001 | XFreeDeviceList |
| 04:08.58 | brlcad | run this: find /usr/X11R6/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList |
| 04:09.20 | brlcad | might just be missing libXi |
| 04:11.32 | Ale_1001 | [root@localhost .libs]# find /usr/X11R6/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList |
| 04:11.33 | Ale_1001 | [root@localhost .libs]# |
| 04:11.36 | Ale_1001 | nop |
| 04:11.53 | brlcad | ah, interesting, that's likely why |
| 04:11.57 | brlcad | no X11 input library |
| 04:12.17 | brlcad | which operating system is this? |
| 04:12.26 | Ale_1001 | its fedora 7 |
| 04:16.37 | brlcad | hrm, that should be in the xorg-x11-libs rpm |
| 04:19.01 | brlcad | Ale_1001: do you have a libXi somewhere? |
| 04:19.37 | Ale_1001 | [root@localhost bwish]# locate libXi |
| 04:19.38 | Ale_1001 | /usr/lib/libXi.so |
| 04:19.38 | Ale_1001 | /usr/lib/libXi.so.6 |
| 04:19.38 | Ale_1001 | /usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0 |
| 04:20.52 | brlcad | ahh, there it is |
| 04:21.13 | brlcad | so then this should find it? find /usr/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList |
| 04:22.06 | brlcad | that's rather bizarre/unconventional (and probably wrong) to have X11 libraries in /usr/lib |
| 04:23.14 | Ale_1001 | [root@localhost bwish]# find /usr/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList |
| 04:23.14 | Ale_1001 | [root@localhost bwish]# |
| 04:23.30 | Ale_1001 | its not there |
| 04:23.35 | brlcad | ah, no static lib |
| 04:23.41 | brlcad | that find was only looking in .a files |
| 04:24.27 | brlcad | so the fix should be something as simple as: cd src/bwish && make LIBS=-lXi |
| 04:25.43 | Ale_1001 | right!!! |
| 04:25.50 | Ale_1001 | it work!!! |
| 04:25.55 | Ale_1001 | you are a master!! |
| 04:26.03 | Ale_1001 | i will continue compiling... |
| 04:26.14 | brlcad | you'll probably need to do it again in src/mged |
| 04:26.52 | Ale_1001 | okis |
| 05:11.09 | Ale_1001 | it works!! |
| 05:11.27 | Ale_1001 | thanks brlcad!! |
| 05:12.52 | brlcad | no problemo |
| 05:13.08 | brlcad | que te va bien |
| 05:14.24 | Ale_1001 | gracias! |
| 05:38.18 | brlcad | de nada |
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| 06:06.31 | Ale_1001 | good by! |
| 06:06.41 | Ale_1001 | i'll back |
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| 11:47.18 | thing0 | hey all |
| 11:47.54 | louipc | good morning |
| 11:48.32 | thing0 | how u doing louipc |
| 11:48.39 | louipc | or whatever it is where you are hahh |
| 11:49.16 | louipc | I'm ok. I'm trying to figure out how to convert pdf to html nicely |
| 11:49.19 | louipc | with images and all |
| 11:49.37 | thing0 | hmm |
| 11:49.42 | louipc | how about yourself? |
| 11:49.47 | thing0 | use adobe acrobat |
| 11:49.53 | thing0 | export out |
| 11:51.03 | louipc | is that the full version or just the viewer? |
| 11:52.59 | thing0 | full version |
| 11:54.57 | louipc | that'd make things a lot easier... |
| 12:08.06 | thing0 | ;) |
| 12:52.28 | thing0 | cya people |
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| 16:32.55 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Did you ever work out the problem with the rewrite rules? |
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| 17:33.58 | louipc | brlcad: I got better results now |
| 17:34.01 | louipc | http://louipc.no-ip.org/poppler/Volume-with-patch/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.html |
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| 20:21.04 | brlcad | louipc: that is better, particularly for the text, though the image extraction is still a little funky |
| 20:21.16 | brlcad | did you get the word docs I'd sent? |
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| 00:00.43 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 00:06.14 | poolio | brlcad: greetings :) |
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| 03:14.38 | louipc | brlcad: yep I got one word doc |
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| 08:05.31 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
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| 09:20.40 | kl | hello |
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| 11:52.20 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: undef small (was char) |
| 11:55.52 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: |
| 11:55.52 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: adapt some loop variables to not standard conform compilers |
| 11:55.52 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: removed C99 code |
| 12:06.48 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: |
| 12:06.48 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: adapt some loop variables to not standard conform compilers |
| 12:06.48 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: added missing return statement |
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| 13:25.28 | poolio | mornin'. Today already hurts...desk chair + sunburn = pain. |
| 13:31.18 | Laniakea | ``Erik: use cold-pressed virgin olive oil that can reduce sun cancer after exposure |
| 13:32.11 | ``Erik | might be late for me, got burnt on the 6th, and not too badly... mostly peeled away now :) |
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| 13:48.34 | poolio | eek. I got burnt Saturday and a little Sunday. I backpacked into a backcountry campsite on Assateague island. was great fun but my feet our burnt to oblivion as well as a splotch on my back. |
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| 15:48.02 | MinuteElectron | foooooddd... |
| 15:48.59 | MinuteElectron | Laniakea: sun cancer? |
| 16:05.54 | poolio | brlcad: I've been fooling around with the organization and it appears that rt_db_put_internal works fine when renaming the directory, you just have to maker sure to do a diradd on the database you're adding the directory to. This way I can only deal with internal objects and don't have to worry about using the external routines. Earlier you said that there would be isues because the directories have offsets? it doesn't appear like this i |
| 16:19.50 | ``Erik | hehehe, truncation, cha cha cha |
| 16:20.33 | ``Erik | (irc msg's have like a 512 char limit, and are prefixed by something like "PRIVMSG #brlcad :", which chews some of that up... it's in rfc1459) |
| 16:20.35 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:21.13 | ``Erik | (holy crap I'm a dork) |
| 16:21.16 | poolio | my client didn't truncate it, and I don't think the RFC is very well enforced :) |
| 16:21.32 | poolio | yea I remember reading that RFC when working on a C IRC bot way back when |
| 16:21.37 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/population.c: moved back from bu_external to rt_db_internal structs. removed now useless pop_dup_internal. |
| 16:22.34 | ``Erik | came up truncated here, "it doesn't appear like this i\0" |
| 16:22.46 | ``Erik | mebbe bx is bitchy :) |
| 16:25.13 | archivist | some clients split it over a number of messages with a delay to get around flooding limits |
| 16:28.43 | ``Erik | speaking of; I really need to get off my butt and hack bx so there's a delay in the autojoins on connect.... |
| 16:28.44 | ``Erik | "connect;excess flood;connect;excess flood; connect;excessflood;BANS!" |
| 16:28.44 | poolio | haha |
| 17:04.00 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593811.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:04.46 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcadinaction.png |
| 17:05.47 | IriX64 | now to try my hand at 7.10 :) |
| 17:09.28 | IriX64 | brlcad: that's your code in action, be proud :) |
| 18:32.47 | poolio | IriX64: are you modifying anything to make these builds work? |
| 18:33.25 | IriX64 | just a little configure.ac work to allow my stuff to be detected |
| 18:34.04 | IriX64 | systems not quite *nix layout |
| 18:35.37 | IriX64 | strange really, 7.8.4 finds libgl but 7.10 does not, looks like the same check *shrug* |
| 18:41.26 | IriX64 | poolio: beauty of that last shot is that's Xming at work. |
| 18:42.22 | IriX64 | works with Xwin32 too, but they only give me 30 minutes a crack :) |
| 18:45.07 | IriX64 | don't like your tk interface :P |
| 18:49.54 | IriX64 | same site /classicmode.png |
| 18:53.55 | IriX64 | well, if the output is to be believed it's compiling :) |
| 18:57.55 | IriX64 | same site /classicmode2 just so you know it's fully functional |
| 19:48.54 | poolio | is there no suite to check functionality, I thought there was a test suite or something? |
| 19:52.28 | brlcad | make test |
| 19:54.16 | poolio | brlcad: did you get my comment about the internal structs working? |
| 19:54.29 | poolio | could you test it out when you have a chance just to confirm that it works on other setups |
| 19:54.31 | brlcad | yeah, I read |
| 19:54.37 | brlcad | sure |
| 19:58.01 | IriX64 | make test doesn't run ;) |
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| 20:38.55 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: add preliminary code to join trims (need to handle the trim wrap around) |
| 20:40.38 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: match use of changed loop variable in body |
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| 21:40.49 | poolio | brlcad: did the internal thing work for you? |
| 21:52.25 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:50.00 | poolio | brlcad: you hear about the tornado? |
| 22:51.05 | brlcad | nope |
| 22:51.24 | poolio | there was one around aberdeen supposedly |
| 22:51.28 | poolio | i'm off to dinner, commits later |
| 22:51.34 | brlcad | and haven't gotten to specifically testing your code yet either, still working on release testing |
| 22:51.37 | brlcad | cool |
| 22:51.50 | brlcad | not too surprised, it's storming pretty hard right now |
| 22:51.55 | brlcad | lost power for a couple seconds |
| 22:51.59 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah very low priority, it works and there's no reason it shouldn't work, I was just worried that I was missing something with the offsets you were talking about |
| 22:52.05 | poolio | got your UPS back up in use? |
| 22:52.08 | brlcad | but then most of my place is on UPS |
| 22:52.33 | brlcad | if you took care of the offsets, then they should work |
| 23:22.11 | ``Erik | had a good bit of wind shifting directino up here and it went from south to north |
| 23:22.20 | ``Erik | had a brownout, too :/ |
| 23:22.23 | ``Erik | I need a ups |
| 23:23.14 | IriX64 | heh uups=universal uninterruptable power supply :) |
| 23:23.46 | ``Erik | brlcad: they're looking at running more 220 to the cardboard box, I asked 'em to cc you to see if you're interested in figuring all that out, but if you're too swamped, I'll do what I can to fix things up right |
| 23:26.41 | ``Erik | <-- is the official stuckee, but wouldn't mind a second rational mind in the mix |
| 23:28.13 | ``Erik | poolio, mind if I ask where-abouts you hail from, what your background is, etc? :) I know you're working some deep stuff and brlcad seems to think highly of you, and that you live in md... that's about it... |
| 23:30.09 | ``Erik | (also; travolta as a chick == skeery, but I bet christopher walken saves that new hairspray flick O.o) |
| 23:39.32 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
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| 01:01.26 | poolio | ``Erik: This response is quite late, but you can ask away and I shall respond if I'm still here when you ask |
| 01:03.39 | IriX64 | maybe I'll play ``Erik and ask ;) |
| 01:06.50 | poolio | You can if I want, I'm just a bad coder that got lucky ;) |
| 01:07.01 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:07.48 | poolio | IriX64: Where are you from? |
| 01:08.03 | IriX64 | Canada Ontario |
| 01:09.22 | poolio | Ah cool. And what do you do for a living? |
| 01:09.37 | IriX64 | I don't live I exist :) |
| 01:10.01 | IriX64 | disability pension at the moment (sigh) |
| 01:10.21 | poolio | So you work on getting brl-cad working in windows for fun? |
| 01:10.26 | IriX64 | yes |
| 01:10.34 | poolio | Very nice of you |
| 01:10.49 | IriX64 | heh thanks for the nice project to play with |
| 01:11.14 | poolio | heh, wasn't me. Do you do any CAD work or just enjoy trying to get BRL-CAD working? |
| 01:11.45 | IriX64 | no cad work, had a course in Autocad but i sucked at it, love trying to learn brl-cad |
| 01:12.54 | poolio | Cool man, best of luck :) Ever try to just run it in a Unix-based environment? |
| 01:13.24 | IriX64 | retired my redhat-5.1 ages ago sorry |
| 01:14.31 | poolio | it's all good. Windows has its uses, but I'm a coder and really need my Linux environment. I can't imagine trying to code in a full-fledged IDE after so many years with my trusty vim |
| 01:14.54 | IriX64 | I like the best of both worlds |
| 01:14.58 | poolio | hmm, I guess that's unrelated to windows, mainly my perception of it and the fact that I last used VisualC++ |
| 01:15.32 | IriX64 | i have visual studio and watcom both decent environments |
| 01:19.21 | poolio | never heard of watcom, but i'm thinking of getting a wacom tablet |
| 01:20.00 | IriX64 | digitizing versus mouseclicking |
| 01:21.03 | poolio | Well I'm going to college and am getting an ultraportable. I figure that a tablet would be useful for typing up notes and say drafting designs/flow charts |
| 01:21.35 | IriX64 | typing on a digitizer , what'd i miss |
| 01:24.23 | poolio | huh? |
| 01:24.51 | IriX64 | how do you type on a digitizing tablet? |
| 01:25.08 | IriX64 | ahh i see the ultraportable |
| 01:25.11 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:26.41 | poolio | It's not like a mousepad-sized digitizer, it's built into the screen |
| 01:27.09 | IriX64 | oh ok |
| 02:00.08 | IriX64 | have i shown you this ---> http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcadinaction |
| 02:03.22 | poolio | +.png, but yeah you have. |
| 02:03.47 | poolio | Also, may I suggest creating some sort of thumbnail gallery with your BRL-CAD pics, and writing comments describing what's happening in the pics? |
| 02:04.11 | poolio | You bombard this channel with updates, maybe it'd be better to start a blog to keep us up to date and that way you can show it to other people as well that are not on IRC |
| 02:05.31 | IriX64 | will take it into consideration |
| 02:06.17 | poolio | you could throw it on blogspot or something and get it hosted for free and with an already made interface. seems pretty handy and that way you can check back on your progress, or see archived/older screen shots |
| 02:07.49 | IriX64 | like www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos ? |
| 02:08.13 | poolio | That site never works for me, something to do with my iceweasel installation, but maybe |
| 02:08.18 | IriX64 | was trying to stay away from sites that not all browsers can access |
| 02:08.46 | poolio | Heh, I cant access that one, but whatever floats your boat |
| 02:09.22 | IriX64 | my boat sank :) |
| 02:21.48 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/iAb3gc15.html <---- whats this on 7.10? |
| 02:22.37 | louipc | yeah the msn spaces have xml oddities, microsoft going outside of spec I guess |
| 02:23.00 | brlcad | IriX64: that's the same problems as before, you've got messed up inclusion orders and interfaces enabled that shouldn't be given the compilation settings |
| 02:23.07 | IriX64 | heh if i were paranoid, i'd think they did it on purpose :) |
| 02:23.29 | IriX64 | so you compile one *or the other? |
| 02:23.54 | brlcad | depends entirely on the platform and the stuff available |
| 02:24.09 | brlcad | suffice to say, we've had this same talk and even over that same error |
| 02:24.21 | IriX64 | soon as you mention platform I have to retire (sigh) |
| 02:24.25 | brlcad | it's not going to get fixed anytime soon until you're willing to look into it more methodically |
| 02:24.49 | IriX64 | lets go, you drive |
| 02:25.14 | IriX64 | ill checkout a whole new tree, just a sec |
| 02:25.19 | brlcad | do you have a clean checkout of cvs head? |
| 02:25.31 | brlcad | yeah, that's needed .. and it MUST remain unmodified |
| 02:25.46 | IriX64 | got it give me 20 minutes |
| 02:26.27 | louipc | I keep one directory for clean checkout/update and one for building/modifications |
| 02:26.41 | IriX64 | ill adopt that |
| 02:26.44 | louipc | just copy over |
| 02:27.00 | IriX64 | just rename the bloody directory :) |
| 02:27.09 | IriX64 | with mc its easy |
| 02:27.12 | louipc | yep |
| 02:27.40 | IriX64 | roses need watering, ill be back in a bit |
| 02:36.15 | IriX64 | checked out how do you want to proceed? |
| 02:36.36 | brlcad | default configure, post the config.log somewhere |
| 02:36.41 | IriX64 | ok |
| 02:40.31 | IriX64 | heh if you laugh at my triplets i'll never speak to you again ;) |
| 02:42.48 | brlcad | is that a promise or a threat? |
| 02:43.09 | IriX64 | a poor attempt at humour :) |
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| 02:55.46 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/config.log |
| 02:57.32 | IriX64 | ill leave that tree strictly alone |
| 04:41.34 | poolio | gnite |
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| 11:33.14 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:01.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: cast to quell warning |
| 14:02.25 | poolio | mornin, see ``Erik's already up |
| 14:04.11 | ``Erik | well, I kinda have to get into the office at 8:30 most days... |
| 14:04.42 | poolio | hehe. :) |
| 14:04.55 | poolio | I slept in today but that means I have to work late :\ |
| 14:05.08 | Laniakea | ``Erik: do you have an idea how to fix this? clock@kestrel:~$ mged |
| 14:05.08 | Laniakea | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done |
| 14:05.08 | Laniakea | version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 14:05.08 | Laniakea | MGED Aborted. |
| 14:08.14 | ``Erik | um, I'd imagine itcl builds its version depending on what the os expects libraries to be named and then tests version in the scripts without paying attention to that... |
| 14:08.28 | ``Erik | obsd doesn't do dotted .so names, does it? |
| 14:09.04 | ``Erik | I know in the configure script, I shoved in a bunch of tests for tcl and tk that go like '8.5 85' in the search |
| 14:09.24 | ``Erik | unfortunately, I don't have an obsd box anymore :( |
| 14:10.03 | ``Erik | (short answer; itcl is broken in your install) |
| 14:14.12 | Laniakea | what's dotted .so names? |
| 14:14.22 | Laniakea | I guess every library name contains at least one dot |
| 14:14.59 | Laniakea | aha the problem is that 33 is actually 3.3 with the dot removed? |
| 14:15.48 | Laniakea | I have libtcl84.so.1.0 in /usr/local/lib |
| 14:16.24 | Laniakea | then also /usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl3.3.so.0.0 |
| 14:16.38 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 14:16.46 | ``Erik | itcl didn't build it, it'd seem |
| 14:16.51 | ``Erik | build right, rather |
| 14:16.56 | Laniakea | can I safely remove /usr/brlcad and run make install again? |
| 14:17.04 | ``Erik | it should probably be libitcl33.so.0.0 |
| 14:17.13 | ``Erik | I don't know if that would fix it... |
| 14:17.19 | louipc | yeah I thought bsd removes the dot |
| 14:17.21 | ``Erik | you might try just moving the offending .so files |
| 14:17.42 | Laniakea | but I don't have a system wide itcl lib |
| 14:17.53 | ``Erik | fbsd can keep the dots in the name |
| 14:18.21 | poolio | just softlink the 3.3 to 33? |
| 14:18.46 | ``Erik | sure |
| 14:19.09 | ``Erik | um, and the symlinks, too... libitcl33.so libitcl33.so.0 libitcl33.so.0.0 |
| 14:19.11 | ``Erik | and see if that works |
| 14:19.40 | ``Erik | and the itk's, if they're also messed up |
| 14:20.06 | poolio | it's a bad hack, the problem should be fixed :) |
| 14:20.21 | ``Erik | no shit? but this will tell us if it's really the problem |
| 14:20.39 | Laniakea | now I did rm -rf /usr/brlcad and doing make install |
| 14:20.48 | Laniakea | because there was some old stuff from 7.8.4 and this is 7.10.0 |
| 14:21.12 | ``Erik | ok, see if mged works, if not, try the symlink hack and see if that fixes it... |
| 14:21.18 | Laniakea | The README says how to install but doesn't say how to reinstall a new version, which people also do often. |
| 14:21.58 | ``Erik | in theory, it should just overwrite leftovers |
| 14:22.30 | ``Erik | around here, they like to --prefix=/usr/brlcad/7.10.0 and ln -s /usr/brlcad/7.10.0/* /usr/brlcad/ |
| 14:44.09 | Laniakea | ``Erik: after deleting the brlcad directory in the system and rerunning make install the error message has changed. |
| 14:45.16 | Laniakea | ``Erik: http://pastebin.ca/623338 |
| 14:46.56 | ``Erik | do you have /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl3.3 or /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33 ? |
| 14:46.58 | poolio | find / -name itcl.tcl ? |
| 14:47.13 | ``Erik | eck, on root? why no /usr/brlcad? |
| 14:47.29 | Laniakea | I don't have /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl3.3 and I have /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33. |
| 14:48.03 | ``Erik | how interesting |
| 14:48.11 | Laniakea | now running find / -name itcl.tcl |
| 14:48.17 | ``Erik | setenv ITCL_LIBRARY /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33 |
| 14:48.23 | ``Erik | setenv ITK_LIBRARY /usr/brlcad/lib/itk33 |
| 14:48.26 | ``Erik | then try mged again? |
| 14:49.27 | Laniakea | setenv: command not found |
| 14:49.43 | ``Erik | oh, um |
| 14:49.47 | ``Erik | are you using bash? |
| 14:49.56 | ``Erik | or one of the bsh family? (ksh, zsh, etc) |
| 14:50.07 | Laniakea | yes I am using bash |
| 14:50.17 | ``Erik | export ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/libitcl33 |
| 14:50.19 | Laniakea | if I replace setenv a b with export a=b then mged says good old |
| 14:50.20 | ``Erik | and the same for itk |
| 14:50.26 | Laniakea | version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 14:50.32 | Laniakea | I did both exports. |
| 14:52.59 | Laniakea | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:53.04 | Laniakea | /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33/itcl.tcl |
| 14:57.26 | Laniakea | I don't understand what I should try with the symlinks |
| 14:57.40 | Laniakea | how did you mean with the symlinks? |
| 14:59.44 | ``Erik | lhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/44680 |
| 14:59.47 | ``Erik | http://paste.lisp.org/display/44680 |
| 15:07.30 | Laniakea | it prints |
| 15:07.33 | Laniakea | ln: /usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl33.so.0.0: File exists |
| 15:07.33 | Laniakea | ln: /usr/brlcad/lib/libitk33.so.0.0: File exists |
| 15:08.12 | poolio | that's fine |
| 15:08.14 | Laniakea | and running mged (without the exports) does again the long error message |
| 15:08.25 | Laniakea | should I try with the export? |
| 15:08.31 | poolio | yes |
| 15:10.43 | Laniakea | So now it prints again clock@kestrel:~$ version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33 |
| 15:11.17 | Laniakea | and MGED Aborted |
| 15:12.37 | poolio | I could keep guessing but you're better off waiting for someone who knows what they're doing |
| 15:16.24 | poolio | Could it have something to do with package checks on startup? something to do with the way the tcl/tk packages are registered on the system? |
| 15:18.27 | ``Erik | no |
| 15:19.15 | ``Erik | clock: can you do "make -V ITCL_VERSION" in the source directory and tell me what it says? |
| 15:20.42 | Laniakea | It says "gmake: invalid option -- V" |
| 15:21.10 | ``Erik | using bsd make...? :) |
| 15:21.20 | ``Erik | or grep it out of Makefile |
| 15:21.37 | ``Erik | I suspect it says "3.3" instead of "33" |
| 15:25.34 | Laniakea | when I do unalias gmake then make -V ITCL_VERSION says 33 |
| 15:25.50 | Laniakea | (on a separate single line, without any quotes) |
| 15:27.17 | ``Erik | huh, odd |
| 15:29.11 | ``Erik | ok, if you go into src/other/incrTcl and do /usr/bin/make -V lib_LTLIBRARIES |
| 15:29.16 | ``Erik | what's that say? |
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| 15:42.49 | poolio | brlcad: I'm still partially confused about the offset thing. It works fine, I didn't manually modify offsets, the internal object remains unchanged, however the directory pointer has changed, I recreate it using diradd on the new database |
| 15:50.59 | Laniakea | libitcl.la libitcl33.la libitk.la libitk33.la |
| 15:58.06 | ``Erik | wwweeeiiirrrdddd |
| 15:58.29 | ``Erik | I don't understand why it's installing as libitcl3.3.so O.o libtool muffed up mebbe? *shrug* |
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| 16:01.25 | Laniakea | so what should I do? |
| 16:01.34 | Laniakea | give some more diagnostic information? |
| 16:02.12 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 16:08.25 | poolio | brlcad or maybe ``Erik can answer this, in db_tree.c, db_count_tree_nodes(), shouldn't the logic be that the CSG operators: union, intersect, etc... add one to the node count? Aren't they considered nodes after all? |
| 16:13.42 | iraytrace | The word "node" is probably a misnomer in this context |
| 16:13.58 | iraytrace | It's counting primitives and regions really |
| 16:14.28 | Laniakea | ``Erik: brlcad 7.8.4 compiled and installed fine for me |
| 16:14.52 | Laniakea | but it produced faulty output from rtedge. |
| 16:15.00 | iraytrace | I wonder if the code, the comment or both are incorrect. I'd have to see what uses it. |
| 16:15.03 | Laniakea | because of race condition between two threads |
| 16:19.24 | poolio | iraytrace: I ask because I need the functionality of counting all nodes, including non-leaf nodes and am debating whether to modify that and rewrite a new one that just adds one for the other OPs |
| 16:20.06 | iraytrace | Have to check the code that calls this already and make sure it won't break before making the change. |
| 16:20.20 | poolio | I can do that |
| 16:20.31 | iraytrace | Goferit |
| 16:23.11 | poolio | iraytrace: I think there's an error, or some sort of weird overlap, db_count_tree_nodes and db_tree_nleaves seem to be the same thing, however nleaves does not count OP_NOPs, and db_count_tree_nodes counts OP_XOR as a unary op, isn't it supposed to be binary? |
| 16:23.52 | iraytrace | Sound like it to mee. |
| 16:24.30 | poolio | Actually, db_count_tree_nodes seems to be no longer in use |
| 16:24.45 | poolio | I think I should modify it to do what it says it should, and I'll change XOR to binary |
| 16:24.54 | iraytrace | sounds like a plan. |
| 16:25.04 | iraytrace | Thanks |
| 16:30.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: db_count_tree_nodes() now counts nodes and leaves |
| 16:31.16 | poolio | hmm, that commit message is not right, but oh well |
| 16:32.00 | Laniakea | Who understands this itcl stuff the most? |
| 16:32.56 | poolio | probably brlcad, but he's a busy man |
| 16:34.14 | Laniakea | There must've been some change around the itcl when it worked in brlcad-7.8.4 and doesn't work in 7.10.0, is it right? |
| 17:38.18 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.185.24) | |
| 18:50.01 | poolio | ah crap, I somehow broke my source directory :\, have to recheckout cvs now |
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| 19:28.57 | IriX64 | poolio, you really can't access my irix32 or irix64 sites? |
| 19:29.27 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 19:31.18 | poolio | Yes, there's some issue with XML, I can paste the error for you if you'd like |
| 19:31.26 | poolio | I think it only is happening with people using iceweasel |
| 19:32.15 | IriX64 | how do i complain to microsoft errr do I dare complain, at the moment those are free sites :) |
| 19:32.35 | poolio | I have no clue, sorry |
| 19:32.49 | IriX64 | heh for you i'll use sympatico |
| 19:33.20 | IriX64 | should make a page |
| 19:36.43 | IriX64 | should re-install opera and see if there's an issue, no issue with windows firefox |
| 19:45.19 | poolio | MinuteElectron: shouldn't be too bad, binary-based distro. |
| 19:46.05 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, I had to download the alternate installer. The standard Live CD installer wouldn't even boot on HELIUM (my other system which is only 400MHz). |
| 19:48.30 | poolio | woah |
| 19:48.40 | poolio | No wonder, why do you still have a 400mhz ;) |
| 19:49.02 | MinuteElectron | Because I haven't the money to maintain two good computers. |
| 19:49.39 | MinuteElectron | poolio: Even the machine I am using ATM is only 2.2GHz. |
| 19:49.50 | poolio | I'm only on a 1.83 |
| 19:50.07 | poolio | Purchasing a 1.5 Thinkpad X41 tablet in the near future |
| 19:50.21 | MinuteElectron | poolio: Hopefully I will be able to get an 31337 machine for christmas (I need a new motherboard so I can use a PCI graphics card). |
| 19:51.06 | poolio | Yeah, with the work I'm doing this summer I'm able to buy a new computer, but I'm saving most of it and going cheap. |
| 19:51.16 | MinuteElectron | I enjoy retro technology because I don't have to worry about scrambling a 10 year old PC when I muck about with the innards. |
| 19:51.41 | dtidrow | 10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 2823MB/3288MB Free] 10disk[Total : 20.32GB/126.97GB Free] 10video[Quadro FX 2500M] 10sound[] |
| 19:51.45 | MinuteElectron | With my 4 year old PC that is a completely different matter. |
| 19:51.56 | MinuteElectron | dtidrow: What program did you use to generate that? |
| 19:52.16 | dtidrow | it's a plugin for xchat |
| 19:52.25 | MinuteElectron | :( - xchat is unfree. |
| 19:52.32 | dtidrow | ??? |
| 19:52.35 | MinuteElectron | at least the win32 official version is. |
| 19:52.40 | dtidrow | ah, win32 |
| 19:52.55 | dtidrow | 10os[dtidrow@localhost.localdomain, Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] |
| 19:53.06 | dtidrow | :-) |
| 19:53.22 | MinuteElectron | irssi is cool. |
| 19:53.28 | IriX64 | err pseudo windows |
| 19:54.03 | dtidrow | running windows inside a VM? |
| 19:54.17 | IriX64 | cygwin on windows xppro |
| 19:54.34 | dtidrow | ah |
| 19:54.44 | IriX64 | works im happy |
| 19:54.53 | dtidrow | cygwin makes windows 'tolerable' ;-) |
| 19:55.07 | IriX64 | loadavg in other sessions is always 0 though :) |
| 19:55.19 | IriX64 | yes it does |
| 19:55.40 | poolio | howdy yukonbob |
| 19:55.53 | yukonbob | a liveCD of *BSD or Linux would make a Windows box even more tolerable... |
| 19:56.03 | IriX64 | heh |
| 19:56.10 | MinuteElectron | os[Microsuck Window XP Professional Service pack 2] cpu[AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2GHz] mem[Physical: 1024MB] disk[77.3GB + 8GB] video[NVidia GeForce FX5200] sound[] |
| 19:56.19 | MinuteElectron | hey yukonbob |
| 19:56.23 | MinuteElectron | nice to meet you |
| 19:56.28 | yukonbob | likewise |
| 19:56.59 | dtidrow | NVidia GeForce FX5200 - that's like bottom of the barrel :-\ |
| 19:57.12 | IriX64 | Minute electron, you've been robbed, my copy of that chip clocks at 2.4g |
| 19:57.33 | dtidrow | IriX64: overclocked? |
| 19:57.40 | IriX64 | no regular |
| 19:57.51 | dtidrow | interesting |
| 19:58.02 | IriX64 | motherboard difference you think? |
| 19:58.10 | dtidrow | MinuteElectron: did you perhaps underclock it for some reason? |
| 19:59.05 | IriX64 | ive got a gig of ddr too but only 250g dive :) |
| 19:59.49 | dtidrow | heh - drives are dirt-cheap these days |
| 19:59.58 | IriX64 | specially ide |
| 20:00.21 | poolio | speaking of which, any suggestions for a external hd that doesnt require it's own power source? (usb-powered) |
| 20:00.23 | dtidrow | saw an external drive for $125 at buy.com - $100 after rebate |
| 20:00.45 | dtidrow | 500GB external, that is |
| 20:00.50 | poolio | nice |
| 20:00.53 | dtidrow | indeed |
| 20:00.56 | IriX64 | poolio staples has several varieties of external usb drives |
| 20:01.09 | poolio | Do people approve of me buying this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130134532113 |
| 20:01.12 | poolio | your e-pinions matter ;) |
| 20:01.15 | louipc | poolio: I get an xml error with firefox |
| 20:01.36 | poolio | louipc: yeah, iceweasel is just what they call the newer version of firefox |
| 20:01.46 | poolio | i forget the whole firefox nomenclature |
| 20:02.49 | IriX64 | looks purty |
| 20:03.29 | yukonbob | poolio: if you get the serial#, you can confirm the warranty w/ IBM |
| 20:03.54 | IriX64 | thinkpad, does it really help you think :) |
| 20:04.21 | louipc | I thought that iceweasel is a fork of firefox |
| 20:04.24 | MinuteElectron | dtidrow: Did I underclock what? |
| 20:04.49 | MinuteElectron | dtidrow: All my friends take the piss out of my FX5200. |
| 20:04.58 | louipc | because they won't allow you to do a custom build and still call it firefox |
| 20:05.03 | MinuteElectron | dtidrow: I am saving up to get a PCI system at Christmas. |
| 20:05.04 | louipc | dumb mozilla license |
| 20:05.34 | dtidrow | MinuteElectron: heh |
| 20:05.55 | louipc | I have the same card as you hah |
| 20:06.02 | dtidrow | $100 would get you a 7600 |
| 20:06.05 | louipc | I think it's broken |
| 20:06.12 | louipc | I got mine ages ago though |
| 20:06.27 | poolio | yukonbob: I just sent the question to the seller, good point |
| 20:06.54 | MinuteElectron | dtidrow: That would be a waste since all AGP cards will be out of date in about 5 months and I want to future-proof myself. THis system I am using now has lasted 4 years. |
| 20:07.19 | louipc | what's the next interface then? |
| 20:07.31 | dtidrow | PCIe |
| 20:07.33 | poolio | PCI-e |
| 20:07.55 | louipc | cool |
| 20:15.43 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I am going away on holiday for one week on Friday so will be unable to finish the theme for the website until after I come back. |
| 20:16.18 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: If I set up LDAP I will be able to set the site to use the defaults themes and you will be able to add content to the wiki and drupal while I am away. |
| 20:17.17 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: If you want to, that is. |
| 20:21.52 | dtidrow | 10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10distro[Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 3.2GB, 84.6% free] 10disk[Total : 126.97GB, 16.00% Free] 10video[nVidia Corporation G71 [Quadro FX 2500M]] 10sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] |
| 20:22.16 | dtidrow | heh - found a new version that detects the h/w & s/w better |
| 20:22.23 | MinuteElectron | hehe |
| 20:41.36 | IriX64 | poolio: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Current.png |
| 20:43.02 | IriX64 | man, it's a cygwin build, would it be cricket to add that somewhere? |
| 20:46.39 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735162.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:54.49 | IriX64 | say, brlcad would it help to have my 7.8.4 config.log to compare against, if it will ill put it up there. |
| 20:59.31 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: cricket? |
| 21:03.25 | IriX64 | would it be allright :) |
| 21:03.59 | MinuteElectron | I think so. |
| 21:04.10 | IriX64 | ty |
| 21:04.16 | MinuteElectron | A old version of windows exists. |
| 21:04.37 | MinuteElectron | But don't trust me, I am simpyl the website developer. |
| 21:04.43 | MinuteElectron | I could be all wrong. |
| 21:04.43 | IriX64 | i Know, 7.8.0 |
| 21:05.11 | MinuteElectron | A newer version would be good (I could try it out). :P |
| 21:05.42 | IriX64 | maybe ill send you a cygwin build when im done :) |
| 21:06.15 | IriX64 | *Ill provide the required dll's |
| 21:07.53 | IriX64 | and xserver |
| 21:08.17 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:09.42 | louipc | how's the website? |
| 21:10.33 | louipc | if you ever need a hand I can do some of that :D |
| 21:11.37 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:12.18 | MinuteElectron | I am still working on the theme, but so it is active while I am gone I am going to set up LDAP by friday and that way people can add content while I am on holiday. |
| 21:14.30 | louipc | hmm I've never used that before |
| 21:15.08 | MinuteElectron | me neither - but I will get it to work. I promise. |
| 21:15.15 | louipc | :D |
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| 21:31.20 | poolio | ebay scammming bullshit bastards grargh http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=130134532113 |
| 21:32.01 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875DE3.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:32.46 | MinuteElectron | poolio: How do you know it is a scam? |
| 21:33.48 | dtidrow_work | $3,275.00 for a 1.5GHz Stinkpad? |
| 21:34.02 | MinuteElectron | oh lol |
| 21:35.14 | dtidrow | 10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10distro[Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T7600 @ 2.33GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1000MHz] 10mem[Physical : 3.2GB, 85.1% free] 10disk[Total : 241.38GB, 25.70% Free] 10video[nVidia Corporation G71 [Quadro FX 2500M]] 10sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel] |
| 21:35.36 | poolio | oh well, so it goes. |
| 21:35.47 | dtidrow | this sucker goes for about $4500 on Dell's website, and it's current h/w |
| 21:36.56 | dtidrow | I need to see if I can get the display resolution to show up as well - this one has a 1920x1200 flatpanel on it |
| 21:44.06 | dtidrow | btw, that $4500 apparently includes an external monitor that I think is also 1920x1200 |
| 21:45.06 | MinuteElectron | Goodnight. |
| 21:45.24 | dtidrow | 'nite |
| 21:58.20 | poolio | brlcad: if I have the choice between writing code that works fine but is very specific and writing code that can be more modularized and allow different implementations, should I choose the latter? |
| 21:59.04 | brlcad | depends how much architecting is required to modularize it, and what sort of "different implementations", but in general sure |
| 21:59.07 | poolio | Like for the genetic operations I currently am writing different routines for the different operations, but I could do it by having a generalized routine and then a function pointer to a routine that will do the more specific processing |
| 21:59.19 | brlcad | wow, busy day |
| 22:00.00 | poolio | Well like, i'm implementing crossover and mutation, should I set it up so if people want to implement other operations that I do not, it will be easier for that to occur? I guess the main question is, is anyone else going to be heavily modifying this code? |
| 22:00.09 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, where have you been all day :) |
| 22:05.26 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: that sounds like a great plan |
| 22:08.21 | brlcad | IriX64: sure, post both for comparison |
| 22:08.32 | IriX64 | all right |
| 22:13.18 | IriX64 | config.log-7.8.4 same site as config.log |
| 22:14.08 | brlcad | poolio: meetings, discussions, fires, the usual |
| 22:15.16 | brlcad | poolio: I don't think it's heavily likely that someone else is going to be _heavily_ modifying anytime real soon, it's more a tool that will work or not work outright |
| 22:15.48 | brlcad | it would be nice to be able to extract out the genetic algorithm into a generic library, but then that is probably too much overhead work to complete this summer |
| 22:15.54 | poolio | alright, so the effort put into making an easier interface isn't necessarily worth the time |
| 22:16.01 | poolio | yeah, it is :) |
| 22:16.23 | brlcad | yeah, configurable would be good, but doesn't need to be necessarily "easier" code-wise |
| 22:16.51 | poolio | Yes, I'm definitely going to separate any sort of "Genetic algorithm variables" |
| 22:17.05 | brlcad | like being able to specify the size of the population, mutation rates, max tree depths, types of allowed operators/primitives, etc |
| 22:17.53 | poolio | Yeah definitely |
| 22:18.34 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: curious comment about ldap -- you're not talking about using ldap for the content are you? |
| 22:18.51 | poolio | I didn't think it would take as long as it's taking, my coding is just going at a slothlike pace for some reason. Every day I make atleast one lage stupid mistake. I was hoping to have it done by now and be working on say having a genetic algorithm or neural net work on finding the best variables for the lower level genetic algorithm |
| 22:18.53 | brlcad | I can easily see it for the user directory, content is a little more tricky |
| 22:19.55 | brlcad | poolio: you're actually father than I "expected" but spot on where I hoped ;) |
| 22:20.30 | poolio | I think what I messed up was I dove into the code a bit too soon, didn't quite spend enough time planning. |
| 22:20.51 | poolio | I lacked the foresight to see a lot of the problems that have come up. But then again hindsight is 20/20... |
| 22:21.27 | brlcad | yep |
| 22:21.43 | brlcad | you've made consistent progress |
| 22:21.53 | brlcad | and no glaring/blatent problems to say the least |
| 22:22.12 | brlcad | just needs more code, more chugging along |
| 22:23.17 | poolio | i mean the first main issue was the tree represenation pain in the butt, and now the organization of my code is needing a change to work better with the genetic operations |
| 22:23.46 | poolio | I'm a couple hundred lines away from a working crossover and framework for mutation, than I'll have to code in the specific cases for mutation, and then I can test, hopefully |
| 22:24.14 | poolio | ah hooray, kind of, |
| 22:24.15 | poolio | eBay Listing 130134532113 Cancelled - Results Null and Void |
| 22:24.35 | dtidrow | which means? |
| 22:25.36 | poolio | seller should repost it, and I'll have a chance to re-bid. |
| 22:26.50 | poolio | brlcad: alright I'm off for the night, but tomorrow I will have workign crossover dammit. |
| 23:40.24 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:55.47 | brlcad | poolio: hehe, good luck! |
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| 06:12.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: No, not LDAP for the content. LDAP so that we only use one usertable in the database. Is that correct? |
| 06:20.21 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Have you an LDAP server set up yet? Or must I setup once? |
| 06:20.25 | MinuteElectron | *one |
| 06:27.35 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Having a look at the BSD repo there appears to be compiled versions of OpenLDAP, the PHP5 extensions and the apache module. If you are able to or want to install them, but I can eqaully as easily compile it myself. |
| 06:31.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: And apparently MySQL comes with BDB support (removed in 5.1 but you have 4.1.22) so I can either use that or it is porbably better to set up BDB datbase so when you upgrade MySQL LDAP still works. |
| 06:33.44 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: We are in luck, the FreeBSD port search says they have Berkeley DB. Although I can also compile it if you want. |
| 06:35.14 | *** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@83.137.193.141) | |
| 06:36.25 | MinuteElectron | bbl |
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| 10:27.02 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: handle trim loop wrapping, i.e. need to close the loop |
| 10:27.28 | Laniakea | anyone has an idea how to continue on diagnosing the itcl problem on my openbsd? |
| 10:29.16 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: make a note about the broken bezier clipping algorithm |
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| 11:55.16 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yes, that's correct .. just checking since something you said made me wonder if you meant for content too -- ldap is either already installed or I can install it if it's not pretty quickly |
| 11:55.26 | thing0 | hey brlcad |
| 11:55.35 | brlcad | I thought I already installed BDB for some other reason, but I'll check that too |
| 11:55.37 | brlcad | howdy thing0 |
| 11:55.47 | thing0 | I am back in Perth |
| 11:55.49 | thing0 | for a week |
| 11:55.54 | thing0 | gonna party it up |
| 11:55.57 | thing0 | just not tonight |
| 11:55.57 | brlcad | sounds like fun :) |
| 11:56.03 | thing0 | had to use broadband |
| 11:56.09 | thing0 | been hanging out for it for SO long |
| 11:56.11 | thing0 | ;) |
| 11:58.36 | brlcad | yeah, I get net withdraws |
| 11:58.53 | brlcad | though I gotta say that I just love having a mildly useful net connection with me all the time now |
| 11:58.54 | thing0 | getting wireless broadband before I go down |
| 11:59.04 | thing0 | hehe |
| 11:59.54 | brlcad | it should be even better when they upgrade to 3G too, though I'm not holding my breath as to when |
| 12:00.29 | thing0 | it is 3G |
| 12:00.36 | thing0 | telstra has it now |
| 12:00.40 | thing0 | 180k a second |
| 12:00.45 | thing0 | I was dumb founded |
| 12:01.31 | thing0 | but yeah |
| 12:01.34 | thing0 | bad plans |
| 12:01.42 | thing0 | 20hrs with unlimited downloads |
| 12:01.48 | thing0 | or 1gb with unlimited time |
| 12:01.53 | thing0 | $50 AUD per month |
| 12:27.01 | poolio | mornin' |
| 12:27.13 | thing0 | morning poolio |
| 12:28.43 | brlcad | 3G is not really prevalent in the US yet |
| 12:28.52 | brlcad | next year it should be |
| 12:29.15 | brlcad | either way, the plan i'm on now is pretty good .. unlimited net for just about 20usd |
| 12:30.06 | thing0 | WOW |
| 12:30.09 | thing0 | that is good |
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| 15:49.13 | poolio | errr? |
| 15:49.50 | ``Erik | looking for the on switch |
| 15:50.15 | ``Erik | <-- has all the class and social grace of a... uhh... n/m |
| 15:52.02 | poolio | heh |
| 15:52.09 | poolio | ``Erik: where you live in MD? |
| 15:53.31 | ``Erik | north, near apg/belair |
| 15:56.18 | poolio | makes sense |
| 16:08.56 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Have you been able to check if BDB and OpenLDAP are installed? |
| 16:13.14 | MinuteElectron | 07:56:09 < thing0> been hanging out for it for SO long |
| 16:13.19 | MinuteElectron | sorry |
| 16:13.21 | MinuteElectron | my bad |
| 16:13.45 | thing0 | I am on 10G for 50AUD |
| 16:13.45 | thing0 | hehe |
| 16:13.50 | thing0 | yeah.... |
| 16:13.55 | poolio | I'm on my neighbor's |
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| 16:50.46 | IriX64 | poolio: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/current710.png |
| 16:51.22 | poolio | cool |
| 16:51.48 | IriX64 | seg faults on attaching to X on startup though had to attach to null for that |
| 16:53.17 | IriX64 | back to examing stack dump sigh status access violation, where's that coming from |
| 17:14.51 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c population.h): working crossover and reproduction. implementation works, but is going to need a lot of tweaking. |
| 17:37.44 | poolio | brlcad: ^^ :) |
| 18:19.47 | *** part/#brlcad iday (n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 18:36.50 | brlcad | poolio: awesome! |
| 18:36.53 | brlcad | ~poolio++ |
| 18:50.20 | poolio | brlcad: I've been working for over an hour trying to figure out if it works though |
| 18:50.23 | poolio | I can't really tell |
| 18:50.28 | poolio | It has some odd behavior...hard to analyze |
| 18:50.51 | poolio | The fitness function isn't making enough difference |
| 18:50.56 | poolio | I need to give the more fit ones a bonus or something |
| 18:52.01 | poolio | It has this tendency to converge onto a sphere |
| 18:52.13 | poolio | when the optimal solution is two spheres not touching |
| 18:53.06 | poolio | In other words, it seems like the fitness doesn't increase at all as time goes on |
| 18:58.45 | poolio | Hopefully mutation will be a saving grace |
| 18:59.28 | poolio | seems I've exceeded my line limit ;) |
| 19:23.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: LDAP? |
| 19:56.49 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: it's installing now |
| 19:57.22 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 19:57.22 | brlcad | had to recompile a few overlays |
| 19:57.22 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: BDB was already there? |
| 19:57.29 | brlcad | part of the compile/install |
| 19:57.49 | MinuteElectron | kl |
| 19:57.51 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 19:58.30 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 19:58.59 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Depending on how long it takes I will see if I cansort LDAP out tonightor tomorrow - but I leave Friday morning. |
| 20:00.03 | brlcad | no problem |
| 20:00.43 | brlcad | we're also moving all of our existing network services for bzflag over to ldap, so I needed to install/update it anyways |
| 20:01.28 | brlcad | it'll be a learning experience, I'm not adept in the details of openldap myself |
| 20:01.32 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: The two LDAP databases for bzflag and brlcad will be sepearate right? |
| 20:01.38 | brlcad | yeah, of course |
| 20:01.45 | poolio | brlcad: I think I'm off for a little while, I'm not too sure whether GAs are going to work here, I hope it's just a bug / lack of tweaking on my end :P |
| 20:01.47 | MinuteElectron | ok, :) |
| 20:02.09 | brlcad | just saying i needed to install it for two major projects, thanks for pressing me to finally do it :) |
| 20:02.23 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 20:02.24 | brlcad | poolio: how so? |
| 20:02.43 | MinuteElectron | If we didn't fix it up by tomorrow it would be another week before you could work on the wiki. |
| 20:03.20 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: BTW I am going to set the themes to default on Drupal and MediaWiki so you can edit them while I am away (since the brlcad theme isn't finished yet). |
| 20:03.32 | poolio | brlcad: I've been messing with it all afternoon, tweaking variables, fitness calculations, etc... and it never seems to converge on a solution |
| 20:03.39 | poolio | it keeps converging on a sphere |
| 20:03.45 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: erhm, why would I edit the default theme? :) |
| 20:03.47 | poolio | when a single sphere is not optimal |
| 20:04.09 | brlcad | poolio: sounds like a bug :) |
| 20:04.09 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I don't mean edit the default theme. I mean edit using the default theme, it is in a much better state at the moment. |
| 20:04.11 | poolio | I might write some perl scripts and other tools to visualize the results better |
| 20:04.18 | poolio | brlcad: yeah.. |
| 20:04.23 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: lol, my bad |
| 20:04.28 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: typo kind-of |
| 20:04.33 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: ah, you mean as to editing the "site itself" as in the content |
| 20:04.43 | MinuteElectron | yeah, sorry about that |
| 20:04.48 | brlcad | np, yeah sure |
| 20:05.05 | poolio | brlcad: I'll work on it a bit later and see if I can find the bug / present some visualizations that explain why/how it's not working :) |
| 20:05.38 | brlcad | poolio: I'd recommed either tcl/tk scripts (if only as a learning/exposure exercise for you) or a libdm or libfb interface |
| 20:06.05 | poolio | I know jack about tcl/tk, or libdm or libfb, any tips on where to start? |
| 20:06.35 | poolio | I was just going to use rt and pix2png or something like that, and output say a large image with a rt of the most fit individual at each generation |
| 20:06.38 | brlcad | depends what exactly you want to visualize |
| 20:07.55 | poolio | brlcad: Well, I also see in the near future a need for plots |
| 20:08.07 | poolio | Like fitness vs. generation graph |
| 20:08.42 | brlcad | yeah, those can all be done with just about any toolkit |
| 20:09.03 | brlcad | it would just be nice that with whatever you work with, that it actually becomes something that integrates with your tool |
| 20:09.32 | brlcad | doesn't have to be one of those three, they're just relatively easy to work with and trivial in terms of integration |
| 20:09.57 | brlcad | a perl script would be fine for your testing/development, but less than ideal for deployment and integration |
| 20:10.26 | poolio | yeah, the main reason was trying to debug the current software |
| 20:10.34 | poolio | but it wouldn't hurt to leanr / create something more useful |
| 20:11.58 | poolio | so any suggestions as to what toolkit to use? I'm trying to raytrace an individual, and probably display a grid of raytraced images, overlaying text would be nice. I'd also like the ability to plot stuff, I was just going to use gnuplot for testing, but do any of the toolkits have that ability built in? Plotting points with lines drawn between them is fine |
| 20:17.46 | brlcad | what I'm thinking of is a simple tcl/tk gui front end application that lets you specify the input geometry |
| 20:18.14 | brlcad | then when you run, it calls beset with the options, and for each iteration, displays one of the results |
| 20:18.27 | brlcad | (using rt and a framebuffer server or using tk and png images directly) |
| 20:21.01 | poolio | oh I see, you mean full-fledged frontend |
| 20:21.18 | poolio | I think for now I'm going to just write my own hackish awful scripts, the key thing currently is getting it working, than I can try to get a nice frontend up |
| 20:21.24 | poolio | there's no point in a frontend of the backend is not functional |
| 20:22.02 | poolio | Unless of course it's pretty simple to write something like that, I really have no clue, never done Tcl/Tk, |
| 20:25.47 | yukonbob | poolio: tcl/tk == easy-peasy |
| 20:26.14 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Who is the www crontab mailed to? |
| 20:26.16 | poolio | Care to walk me through it / point me somewhere to start? |
| 20:26.30 | yukonbob | ^-- that for me? |
| 20:26.44 | poolio | :) |
| 20:27.11 | yukonbob | http://wiki.tcl.tk/, and #tcl on freenode... |
| 20:27.19 | yukonbob | I can shoot a basic script to you too... 1 sec. |
| 20:28.09 | yukonbob | also, excellent book == Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk (Fourth Edition) Brent Welch et al |
| 20:28.29 | yukonbob | (not sure if there's going to be a Fifth Edition around the corner since Tcl/Tk 8.5 is around the corner |
| 20:28.33 | yukonbob | ) |
| 20:28.48 | poolio | Or maybe are there any examples in brlcad's source of similar simple tools using tcl/tk |
| 20:29.15 | poolio | Yeah, I don't really have the time to completely learn it :) Got some more important stuff on the burner |
| 20:29.48 | yukonbob | poolio: of course... you don't need to become a wizard, but you can cherry-pick what you need from above resources ;) |
| 20:30.04 | poolio | alright, thanks |
| 20:31.31 | yukonbob | poolio: http://wiki.tcl.tk/488 |
| 20:32.06 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 20:32.28 | yukonbob | http://wiki.tcl.tk/298 |
| 20:32.48 | poolio | thanks |
| 20:33.29 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Also rewrite rules still don't work. |
| 20:37.04 | poolio | yukonbob: It doesn't look too hard, but I kind of don't feel like being bogged down by it right now. thanks for the help though |
| 20:37.26 | yukonbob | np :) |
| 20:37.54 | brlcad | poolio: it's not that complicated, but certainly a couple weeks work if you don't know tcl/tk probably to get something that looks nice |
| 20:38.21 | yukonbob | howdy brlcad :) |
| 20:38.30 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, I don't think I have that time :) |
| 20:38.31 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: if it's a user crontab, it's e-mailed to the local mailbox for that user |
| 20:39.26 | yukonbob | poolio: when you get a few spare cycles and are in the mood, just sit down w/ tcl and play for a bit... I found it _really_ fun to play with, and not difficult to pick up... you can learn it in bits/pieces that way... |
| 20:39.43 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Hmm, it would be useful to have the output of the crontasks, since for all I know what could be going on coud have an error. |
| 20:39.54 | MinuteElectron | Don't know if that is possible or not. |
| 20:40.53 | poolio | yukonbob: I'm headed off to school on August 19th :P I only have like 3 weeks left |
| 20:41.47 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 20:42.26 | yukonbob | poolio: what are you studying? |
| 20:42.42 | poolio | yukonbob: electrical and computer engineering |
| 20:43.32 | poolio | I'm not even taking programming first semester, it took me weeks to convince them to let me place out of the C & Unix programming class and it turns out the course that that places me into is completely full and the waitlist is huge. |
| 20:43.45 | poolio | yukonbob: I say ECE, but it's not 100% sure, I don't have to declare my major til the end of the year |
| 20:51.15 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: So two things: are you able to get the rewrite engine working, and what will be the copyright status of the website? |
| 20:58.19 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782556.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:04.22 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Once the LDAP is set up the wiki and Druapl are good for editing. |
| 21:06.59 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 21:10.24 | brlcad | poolio: here's a nice simple tcl/tk intro |
| 21:10.26 | brlcad | http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dbutler/tutorials/winter96/tcl/ |
| 21:11.17 | brlcad | it's worth more than an hour of your time to go through that just to get some exposure to it |
| 21:12.18 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: the rewrite engine works, I tested it .. just not sure exactly what you're trying in the .htaccess file :) |
| 21:12.33 | MinuteElectron | :'( |
| 21:12.35 | brlcad | could be that it's conflicting with the rewrite rules in the conf file |
| 21:13.03 | MinuteElectron | what is the path to the conf file? i use emacs now and don't have asilly problem like I did with vi. |
| 21:15.00 | poolio | brlcad: alright alright :P |
| 21:16.35 | brlcad | not saying you have to use it for what you're doing |
| 21:16.42 | brlcad | just that you should go through the tutorial |
| 21:18.28 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: the wiki comes up, what sort of rewrite rule are you looking to add? |
| 21:18.41 | brlcad | w/ to w/index? |
| 21:19.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: w/index.php?title= to wiki/ |
| 21:19.13 | MinuteElectron | and |
| 21:19.24 | MinuteElectron | d/?q= to site/ |
| 21:19.55 | MinuteElectron | The same rewrite rules work on a different MediaWiki site I maintain. |
| 21:21.59 | brlcad | ah, interesting reversal |
| 21:22.44 | MinuteElectron | hmm? |
| 21:22.48 | brlcad | nvm |
| 21:23.03 | MinuteElectron | ok... |
| 21:23.11 | brlcad | just almost the exact opposite that we set up on another site |
| 21:23.24 | MinuteElectron | oh, ok |
| 21:23.32 | MinuteElectron | this way IMO is cleaner. |
| 21:23.43 | MinuteElectron | it also reduces conflicts in directory names |
| 21:23.45 | MinuteElectron | and file names |
| 21:23.52 | brlcad | the difference is ending up with wiki/page or w/page |
| 21:23.58 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, |
| 21:23.59 | brlcad | w/page was chosen for brevity :) |
| 21:24.59 | MinuteElectron | wiki/ is the official one- but either will do. |
| 21:26.20 | brlcad | wiki/ is fine, though I'd edited LocalSettings for w/ if you hadn't noticed |
| 21:26.42 | brlcad | also moved the db settings out of the web root if you noticed |
| 21:26.46 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, I saw. |
| 21:26.50 | brlcad | you can put anything sensitive like that in that dir |
| 21:26.56 | brlcad | s/can/should/ :) |
| 21:27.07 | MinuteElectron | Oh, when you moved the db settings the wiki died. |
| 21:27.10 | brlcad | so like if php wasn't working, files get exposed, etc |
| 21:27.25 | MinuteElectron | Where were the settings moved to? |
| 21:27.51 | MinuteElectron | I restored the settings, I was kind-of confsued and thought I might have accidentally hit the wrong keys lol. |
| 21:29.07 | brlcad | probably just a php security setting that needed to be enabled, or something similar |
| 21:29.46 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 21:30.03 | brlcad | so needed to be after |
| 21:30.29 | brlcad | woot, slapd finished |
| 21:31.02 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 21:31.40 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:32.49 | poolio | cya ``Erik |
| 21:34.59 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are changes to httpd.conf instant? |
| 21:36.38 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Also, is mod_alias enabled? |
| 21:37.54 | brlcad | no, apache has to be reset (sudo apachectl graceful) |
| 21:38.12 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:38.13 | brlcad | and yes, mod_alias is enabled |
| 21:38.17 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:39.57 | poolio | brlcad: Is there something already established to take shots from the x y and z axis? I'm just trying to save a good represntation of the model that I can look at outside brl-cad |
| 21:41.06 | brlcad | mm, I thought about writing such a tool several times, quite a trivial script |
| 21:41.10 | brlcad | but alas, no |
| 21:41.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can I reset Apache? Also can you check my modifications to httpd.conf - I don't want to accidentally take out the server. |
| 21:41.23 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yes, you can as www |
| 21:42.15 | brlcad | do an "apachectl -t" to check the syntax |
| 21:42.19 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:42.20 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 21:42.47 | brlcad | if the syntax is good, at worst you'll probably take down brlcad.org only |
| 21:43.03 | brlcad | if it's bad, then .. it's bad :) |
| 21:54.18 | MinuteElectron | I have to go to sleep now - last day fo school until the summer tomorrow. Hope you are able to fix the httpd.conf problems ;) - will sort out LDAP tomorrow. |
| 21:54.27 | MinuteElectron | Goodnight al. |
| 21:55.30 | MinuteElectron | Also i must moved the drupal database settings to a seperate file. |
| 22:05.46 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: ldap is installed and running now |
| 22:05.49 | brlcad | though there is no config file |
| 22:12.08 | poolio | brlcad: I keep getting "pix-png: Short read" what's up with that? |
| 22:39.56 | ``Erik | your pix isn't as big as expected |
| 22:40.09 | ``Erik | default expect 512x512*3 bytes |
| 22:40.40 | ``Erik | so if the file isn't 786432 (or more), you get that error |
| 22:41.01 | ``Erik | try the -a flag if it's square, or the, uhhh, -w and some other flag if its' not |
| 22:52.02 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:24.50 | brlcad | yeah, need to specify the -w WIDTH -n HEIGTH of the input, and use redirectors < > for input/output |
| 02:36.48 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-112-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 02:54.42 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871649.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:56.11 | IriX64 | poolio: archer.png (proving once and for all windows is fun:)) |
| 03:20.11 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-112-115.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 03:21.18 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871649.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:51.20 | poolio | brlcad: a bit late, but I was wondering if you had any suggestions on the series of ae's to take the raytraces at? |
| 04:09.30 | brlcad | poolio, sure .. front, left, top and 3525 |
| 04:09.44 | poolio | k, thanks |
| 04:10.00 | brlcad | i.e. 0 0 90 0 270 90 and 35 25 |
| 04:10.38 | poolio | Yeah I got that, just fixing up the perl script :) |
| 04:35.38 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@210-84-20-110.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 04:54.55 | poolio | brlcad: if you have a minute and some bandwidth here's a 1.2M image, showing the most fit individual from each generation |
| 04:55.05 | poolio | http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon.jpg |
| 04:56.27 | poolio | Just uses crossover and reproduction, 50% chance of either, crossover is done by selecting a random node on each of the two parent trees and swapping the sub trees at those nodes. |
| 04:56.38 | poolio | reproduction is just duplicating the individual into the newer populaiton |
| 04:57.54 | poolio | Testing whether the GA is working is becoming painfully slow :\ |
| 05:06.17 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: very curious.. is that svn cron task a safe thing to do? chances that the svn sources will update to something unstable or is that a stable branch the sources come from? |
| 05:08.43 | brlcad | poolio: interesting, and progress :) |
| 05:08.57 | brlcad | and a pretty reasonable test case |
| 05:09.00 | poolio | well, not necessarily progress :\ |
| 05:09.10 | brlcad | well it's actually iterating and doing something |
| 05:09.10 | poolio | Let me try again with the two spheres |
| 05:09.27 | poolio | Well it has been at that stage for teh entire day, I was hoping to have some sort of visible convergence |
| 05:09.46 | brlcad | note that with the evolutionary criteria you selected.. i really wouldn't expect it to converge for several hundred iterations at least |
| 05:10.45 | brlcad | is the fitness value that your fitness function computes normalized? |
| 05:10.48 | poolio | alright, maybe I'm being too impatient. But the fact that it's jumping around so much for so long...I thought I would be able to see noticeable improvement after a not so significant amount of generations |
| 05:11.23 | brlcad | after 100 iterations, you should see some difference, but it won't necessarily be visible |
| 05:11.26 | poolio | brlcad: Normalized from 0 to 1, represents the %different from the source |
| 05:11.26 | brlcad | you need the value |
| 05:11.36 | poolio | well the value tends to go down |
| 05:11.41 | poolio | it seems the first generation has the highest fitness |
| 05:11.43 | brlcad | yeah, what's the graph of that mean fitness look like? |
| 05:11.58 | poolio | that's next on the list :) |
| 05:12.17 | brlcad | i'd also suggest starting with an even simpler test case |
| 05:12.27 | poolio | I did, I just tried out something more advanced |
| 05:12.44 | poolio | I'll go back and test a simpler one now |
| 05:12.45 | brlcad | I presume from what you said earlier that one sphere is pretty much going to match just from how sample candidates are tested |
| 05:12.56 | brlcad | with thier boxes set to "match" |
| 05:12.59 | poolio | Yes, one sphere is trivial in the sense every single individual will be the same |
| 05:13.15 | brlcad | okay, so then next step is two spheres, not overlapping |
| 05:13.33 | brlcad | then two spheres overlapping |
| 05:13.53 | brlcad | but only after you find a convergence on the first |
| 05:13.59 | poolio | yeah, I tried two spheres not overlapping, no good results, I'm going to try to run it longer though |
| 05:14.05 | brlcad | you should definitely be able to get a semi-quick convergence on the first |
| 05:15.07 | brlcad | i mean, that's only a four-value function if you think of one of the spheres as fixed, and still only 8 valued if you don't |
| 05:15.46 | brlcad | it's only when it gets into the hundreds that I'd question it's ability to ever converge |
| 05:16.34 | brlcad | can you make more than a sphere or is that the only primitive supported? |
| 05:17.01 | brlcad | that's another hard problem -- with even just one primitive, but N possible creation primitives |
| 05:18.54 | poolio | so far i'm keeping it just a sphere |
| 05:19.02 | brlcad | another thing I think might actually be messing you up is matching the bounding grid to make it scaling independent -- it takes care of scaling (which is just one parameter of course), but screws with translations and position values (6 parameters) .. such that crossover is effectively randomized between different scalings |
| 05:19.05 | poolio | I can spawn a population with anything |
| 05:19.14 | brlcad | okay, just wondering - that's good |
| 05:19.29 | poolio | It'd take a few minutes to spawn other things, but the crossover and reproduction are independent of the shape and it's specific properites |
| 05:19.51 | brlcad | nah, don't worry about other shapes, spheres are good |
| 05:20.05 | poolio | yeah crap, translations and positions would throw it all off |
| 05:20.27 | poolio | well, translations and positions would be covered by orientation |
| 05:20.33 | poolio | which is inherently part of the primitive shapes |
| 05:21.24 | brlcad | the magnitude of their values doesn't mean the same thing after a crossover any more though |
| 05:22.23 | poolio | true |
| 05:22.47 | brlcad | which just makes it that much harder for the GA (and really hurts crossover) |
| 05:23.37 | poolio | hmm |
| 05:23.42 | poolio | but I don't think there's really anything I can do about that |
| 05:23.44 | brlcad | one of the crossover criteria is supposed to be taking your top n% of the population only, for example, like only your best 50% with a given fitness get to cross .. |
| 05:23.52 | poolio | well |
| 05:23.57 | poolio | I have a weighted random selection |
| 05:24.07 | poolio | so the most fit are more likely to be selected, but not guaranteed |
| 05:24.11 | brlcad | but with normalized scaling, that means the fitness is scale dependent which crossover knows nothing about |
| 05:24.16 | poolio | tournament selection might be what it's called |
| 05:25.29 | poolio | I don't see any way around the crossover issue though, unless you wanted crossover to modify the shapes themselves to normalize them to the current shapes in the other tree, but I don't think that makes much sense |
| 05:25.29 | brlcad | with usual fitness values, crossover tends to work well because crossing something with fitness .7 and .8 tend to give something that is .7 or better on average |
| 05:25.42 | brlcad | with the scaled values, though, you could pretty much get anything though |
| 05:26.50 | poolio | ah crap |
| 05:26.56 | poolio | I never thought of that... |
| 05:27.04 | brlcad | what you can do is take the bounding box of your input geometry, make that your grid -- and only create geometry within those bounds |
| 05:27.29 | brlcad | so position becomes a parameter, but it makes the fitness work |
| 05:27.29 | poolio | http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres.jpg |
| 05:27.55 | poolio | wait |
| 05:28.12 | poolio | so setting up the raytracing of the indviduals would use the a fixed frustrum? |
| 05:28.16 | poolio | for every individual |
| 05:28.51 | brlcad | yeah, those results seem fairly random.. cept for the times it gets stuck on a mildly bad answer |
| 05:29.09 | brlcad | yeah, fixed bounds |
| 05:29.13 | brlcad | based on your input |
| 05:29.23 | brlcad | absolute world coordinate space |
| 05:29.56 | brlcad | if input model is 100,100:-100,-100 then that is what you shoot in and create sample geometry in |
| 05:30.26 | brlcad | you'll have to rework a few pieces of your code undoubtedly |
| 05:30.30 | brlcad | but I think you really will have to |
| 05:30.45 | brlcad | and sorry, I should have thought about that scaling issue earlier better myself :/ |
| 05:31.38 | poolio | no man, it's my project and my failure to think of this sooner |
| 05:33.10 | brlcad | you have a mentor for a reason :) |
| 05:33.23 | poolio | I think having crossover meaningful and working is a lot more important than the scale and global position invariance |
| 05:33.30 | brlcad | either way, it's still looking good, just the fact that you have crossover working on trees! |
| 05:34.15 | poolio | it was so easy to code, it was such a trivial thing that took so long |
| 05:34.18 | brlcad | and all being done through the librt geometry api, native hooks, calling into the ray tracer, awesomeness |
| 05:34.22 | poolio | crossover on trees is as easy as swapping pointers |
| 05:34.36 | poolio | well I'm happy if you're happy :) |
| 05:37.10 | brlcad | i'll of course be happier as it gets better too ;) |
| 05:37.52 | poolio | yeah yeah. next couple of days should be good. now that I can see some progress I'll probably make more |
| 06:11.42 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I will adjust the cron thing. |
| 06:12.02 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: it's not a problem per se, just wondering |
| 06:12.46 | brlcad | kinda cool that it'd stay up to date, but if they're like most web apps, they'll eventually break compatibility and require upgrade scripts to run on the db, or other actions to be taken, etc |
| 06:13.17 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: An upgrade script was already running. |
| 06:14.27 | MinuteElectron | I will remove the cron thing an from time to time update it to the revision currently running on Wikipedia. All of the commits havbe been reviewed by the CTO of Wikimedia\Head developer of MediaWiki before they go onto Wikipedia., |
| 06:15.36 | brlcad | sure, review is great .. but eventually compatibility is (intentionally) broken so code can advance -- is this a stable branch or head? |
| 06:16.06 | MinuteElectron | head, what do you mean by compatability? |
| 06:16.49 | brlcad | i mean they add some great new feature X or change how feature Y works, and that might, for example, require a new field be added to the database |
| 06:17.22 | brlcad | maybe requires whole new tables, or even simply reworks how they behave in a manner that's not the same as it was |
| 06:17.35 | brlcad | that happens to all code eventually |
| 06:17.35 | MinuteElectron | Ok, I will switch to a stable branch, although I have had much experience with MediaWiki - and the upgrade script automatically does all of the SQL updates. |
| 06:18.05 | brlcad | ah, so that's what you meant by an upgrade script was already running |
| 06:18.11 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 06:18.11 | brlcad | I just noticed the svn update |
| 06:18.29 | MinuteElectron | That is how they do it on Wikipedia - if they broke things then the entire of Wikipedia would break. |
| 06:18.37 | MinuteElectron | So svn up, php update.php |
| 06:19.21 | brlcad | which might imply that they are either working on a deployment branch, or they treat head like a stable branch |
| 06:19.29 | brlcad | and perform active work on a branch then |
| 06:20.03 | brlcad | if it'll work that's fine, just good to understand what is what :) |
| 06:20.41 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, okay. I will update it peridoically to the latest revision live on Wikipedia. |
| 06:23.05 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How is LDAP setup going? |
| 06:26.42 | brlcad | it's installed and running, but no config exists for it yet |
| 06:27.10 | MinuteElectron | ok, I will have to read up on that this afternoon. |
| 06:27.18 | MinuteElectron | if I am getting the right end of the stick |
| 06:27.29 | brlcad | yeah, i'm trailblazing new territory myself as I've mostly dealt with existing configs |
| 06:28.15 | brlcad | I'll work on it some more tomorrow and see what I can get going |
| 06:28.33 | brlcad | was there anything you needed for the rewrites or you have that all under control now? :) |
| 06:28.42 | MinuteElectron | It is still broekn. |
| 06:28.59 | MinuteElectron | I added the aliases to httpd.conf and reset apache. |
| 06:29.04 | MinuteElectron | But it still doesn't work. |
| 06:30.23 | MinuteElectron | I am very confused. |
| 06:34.48 | brlcad | I can play with it, I remember the internal redirect rules in media causing all sorts of issues |
| 06:35.16 | MinuteElectron | they are? |
| 06:35.19 | brlcad | took a while to get it to work with their latest (set up last winter) |
| 06:36.00 | MinuteElectron | I removed the settings from MediaWiki so if the aliases work it MediaWiki will just redirect to /w/index.php/page |
| 06:37.05 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, I will work on all this later. School for me now. |
| 06:38.27 | brlcad | you know, something like the drupal header, but inverted (both vertically and color) would work pretty well for the footer |
| 06:38.41 | brlcad | er, I mean the default theme |
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| 10:56.07 | poolio | mornin' |
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| 13:18.56 | ``Erik | *stretch* *yawn* |
| 13:22.39 | Laniakea | Can someone help me with the mged that has the itcl problem? |
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| 13:33.24 | ``Erik | the . issue from yesterday? |
| 13:36.23 | ``Erik | I assume you're using 4.1? |
| 13:37.33 | Laniakea | 4.09 |
| 13:37.34 | Laniakea | 4.0 |
| 13:37.37 | Laniakea | not 4.09 |
| 13:40.15 | ``Erik | hum, tell ya what, once I get this thing slapped together, I'll see if I can reproduce it on 4.1. If I cannot, I'll make a 4.0 image :) |
| 13:40.31 | ``Erik | will take a while, though, building the emulator, then installing into an emulator... |
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| 14:33.23 | ``Erik | neat, bus error on install |
| 14:34.54 | dtidrow | binary install? |
| 14:36.42 | Laniakea | ``Erik: you need to fix your bus |
| 14:36.48 | ``Erik | install of obsd41 in qemu, to track a bug Laniakea is seeing |
| 14:36.52 | Laniakea | pull out an oscilloscope and measure the eye patterns! |
| 14:37.36 | poolio | brlcad: should I normalize the shot rays [0,1] now or just leave the depth of the ray as is? I don't have to normalize because they're all going to have the same depth (z of the bounding box is the same for all individuals) |
| 14:38.15 | Laniakea | brlcad: I am thinking (not very seriously) about making an opening logo animation for Twibright Labs movies |
| 14:38.36 | Laniakea | taking a wave equation solver, put Twibright Labs logo into the wave, run the simulation and then record it backwards. |
| 14:39.01 | Laniakea | Is it a good idea to use the resulting height map and feed it into brl-cad with some water parameters and sun at the horizon to get a realistic looking raytraced scene? |
| 14:39.11 | Laniakea | Can you have a real height field in brl-cad? |
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| 14:44.24 | ``Erik | um, the 'dsp' primitive might be what you're looking for |
| 14:44.30 | ``Erik | (yes, the name is stupid.) |
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| 14:49.13 | poolio | brlcad: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres_fixed.jpg -- with fixed bounding box |
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| 15:23.27 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions | |
| 15:26.08 | brlcad | poolio: you can either normalize the rays or not, shouldn't really matter except that your fitness function will probably want to normalize at least from the perspective of getting the ratio of right/wrong so it can determine the overall fitness value |
| 15:27.36 | brlcad | I actually think that looks a little better, but it either converged on a local minima or there's some other bug at play |
| 15:32.36 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Is the LDAP ready for configuration? |
| 15:34.32 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:36.58 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: in what sense? :) |
| 15:37.09 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Making it work. |
| 15:37.15 | brlcad | it's installed and ready like I said yesterday .. but has no configuration file :) |
| 15:37.23 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Am I able to make one? |
| 15:37.30 | MinuteElectron | Or do you need to? |
| 15:37.30 | brlcad | you should be able to, yeah |
| 15:37.37 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 15:42.33 | brlcad | there's an ldap user just like the www user that you should be able to sudo as |
| 15:43.09 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:43.12 | brlcad | config would go in /var/db/openldap-data |
| 15:43.13 | brlcad | iirc |
| 15:43.29 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:43.57 | brlcad | the restart script is in /usr/local/etc/rc.d for slapd (which you can run as just sudo without -u ldap) |
| 15:46.28 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Would the LDAP server be located at localhost? |
| 15:46.37 | brlcad | yes |
| 15:46.56 | brlcad | and should only be accessible locally, no remote access |
| 15:47.00 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Which port? |
| 15:47.30 | brlcad | should be on the default, 389 |
| 15:47.39 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 15:47.48 | brlcad | yep, it is |
| 15:51.12 | brlcad | it really does need a configuration file, though .. default is going to be wrong |
| 15:52.21 | poolio | brlcad: there's something f-ed with my debian install, I put it under heavy load trying to test out more generations/larger populations and I hard lock :\ |
| 15:53.39 | ``Erik | nifty |
| 15:59.14 | brlcad | hehe |
| 16:00.58 | ``Erik | sure it's not a hw issue? |
| 16:05.00 | poolio | not entirely sure |
| 16:05.05 | poolio | but if it is I'm going to be very angry |
| 16:08.35 | poolio | alright |
| 16:08.37 | poolio | lets try this again |
| 16:09.33 | poolio | Hmm, my lap is burning. |
| 16:10.02 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: sudo: /usr/local/etc/rc.d: command not found |
| 16:11.06 | poolio | brlcad: oh d'oh, that's the issue |
| 16:11.13 | poolio | I only have 512 mb of swap and 1gb of ram, and it's all full |
| 16:11.23 | poolio | I'm guessing I should fix my memory leaks |
| 16:11.54 | ``Erik | um, shouldn't be a hard lock, linux should start throwing OOM messages and killing processes left and right |
| 16:12.34 | ``Erik | (now, it may LOOK like a hard lock as it tries to clean up swap space tables in kernel... but evnetually it should come back) |
| 16:12.37 | poolio | well, it's not actually a hard lock, it's a: it's so slow I can't move the mouse or type or do anything |
| 16:12.55 | poolio | and I give up trying to attempt to kill it and just power down |
| 16:13.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:13.15 | ``Erik | X can be a memory pig :) |
| 16:13.33 | poolio | Well, not really, X isn't the issue |
| 16:14.04 | ``Erik | your leaks are, but with your app and X fighting over memory and beating up swap, it bet it got ugly... console would've probably been a lot more responsive :) |
| 16:14.24 | poolio | Well, my X and everything else running is minimal |
| 16:14.35 | poolio | Idling right now I"m using a total of 84M |
| 16:14.55 | ``Erik | X tends to be aggressive about image caching |
| 16:15.47 | ``Erik | freshly started, it's tiny, but it grows, and gets thrashy if you get towards oom and it tries to clear out some cache |
| 16:16.03 | poolio | hmm, valgrind is being of no help |
| 16:16.06 | poolio | I might have to use my brain |
| 16:16.28 | ``Erik | <-- likes to sit at an X server and do dev work and big runs on other machines |
| 16:16.48 | ``Erik | um, boehm? |
| 16:17.20 | poolio | what's boehm? |
| 16:17.23 | ``Erik | boehm-gc |
| 16:17.47 | ``Erik | hans boehm wrote a GC that works with c/c++ programs, it can be used to find dangling allocs and stuff |
| 16:18.15 | ``Erik | I d'no if valgrind can do the same thing as well |
| 16:18.46 | ``Erik | if neither show it, that means the chain is still live |
| 16:23.55 | poolio | ``Erik: It looks like it's a library, not a program |
| 16:24.16 | ``Erik | it is |
| 16:24.39 | ``Erik | LD_PRELOAD=libgc.so ./myprog |
| 16:24.44 | ``Erik | or link against it |
| 16:24.49 | poolio | oh alright |
| 16:24.51 | ``Erik | it over-rides the alloc family |
| 16:25.33 | ``Erik | I think you have to do something funky to get it to report collects and stuff |
| 16:25.37 | ``Erik | been a while |
| 16:25.40 | ``Erik | and a long time, too |
| 16:33.29 | poolio | yeah I don't get any output |
| 16:35.03 | ``Erik | is the app growing at the same rate? |
| 16:37.20 | poolio | haven't tested yet, I've been doing some other tweaking |
| 16:38.54 | poolio | alright |
| 16:38.59 | poolio | lets see if it works better :) |
| 16:39.40 | poolio | ``Erik: Yeah, just as bad |
| 16:39.53 | poolio | After ~30 seconds I'm up to 80% |
| 16:40.12 | poolio | and we are full :\ |
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| 16:44.32 | poolio | ``Erik: :\ |
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| 16:46.49 | poolio | well, it looks like it wasn't going good anyway |
| 16:48.45 | poolio | brlcad: same issue: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres_pop500.jpg -- converges on a sphere |
| 16:51.18 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I am not going to be able to get LDAP set up by tonight. |
| 16:51.25 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: There is not enough time. |
| 17:02.46 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I have to go, I will be back on Saturday next week. And will finish work on the site over that week (I think). If you want you may edit the wiki and Drupal, since they both function you could put something in the topic saying they are open to editing maybe. If you make an account on either I will check back in ~2 hours and make you an admin on both. |
| 17:05.25 | brlcad | ~MinuteElectron++ |
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| 17:39.23 | poolio | brlcad: is there some sort of safe atoi() anywhere in brlcad? reading an unsigned int passed as an argument |
| 17:45.36 | ``Erik | atoi() isn't safe? |
| 17:46.08 | ``Erik | src/librt and src/rt make heavy use of regular old atoi() |
| 17:49.07 | poolio | oh alright :) |
| 17:49.12 | poolio | well I just have to error check it |
| 18:05.01 | IriX64 | there's a young atoi()? o of course ateentoi() ;) |
| 18:05.21 | poolio | yuck yuck |
| 18:05.31 | IriX64 | snarkle :) |
| 18:08.11 | IriX64 | somebody wanted to know what i was the other day, I responded "cute and adorable" what are you? (snort) |
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| 18:20.35 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: cosmetics, comments, and working options |
| 18:20.53 | poolio | and the memory leak isn't there |
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| 19:48.37 | poolio | where's the fookin leak. :\ |
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| 21:49.18 | brlcad | poolio: did you run valgrind? |
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| 21:57.34 | poolio | errr |
| 21:57.36 | poolio | brlcad: big problem |
| 21:59.18 | poolio | brlcad: My mom tripped over my AC adapter and kicked the brick into the wall, and now the charging brick isn't working. I didn't notice at the time and so I drained my battery to nothing, and then it died. It's an Asus so it's not carried in stores but I'm trying to get one ASAP |
| 22:01.07 | brlcad | poolio: ah, that sucks |
| 22:01.13 | brlcad | thanks mom :) |
| 22:01.42 | poolio | ....tell me about t |
| 22:01.44 | poolio | *it |
| 22:02.08 | brlcad | radio shack has the components to make a custom fitted adapter, I've used them for a few laptops |
| 22:02.19 | brlcad | just in case you're looking |
| 22:07.08 | poolio | "custom fitted" ? a in hacked together? :P |
| 22:07.26 | brlcad | no, they have sort of a universal power adapter kit |
| 22:07.38 | brlcad | you identify the tip, and the power requirements |
| 22:07.47 | poolio | Oh, like the Targus universal adapter thing? |
| 22:07.48 | brlcad | they have a standard brick for various amperages |
| 22:08.04 | brlcad | kinda, except that they have bigger/smaller bricks |
| 22:08.16 | brlcad | and you usually just buy the tip you need |
| 22:08.17 | poolio | alright, and they have all the tips? |
| 22:08.27 | poolio | the main issue is it's an Asus and it's not really carried ... anywhere |
| 22:08.31 | brlcad | only way to know is to take in your adapter to see |
| 22:08.39 | brlcad | usually about 20-40 if they have the tip |
| 22:08.46 | brlcad | or maybe remembering low |
| 22:08.52 | brlcad | maybe 40-80 |
| 22:08.58 | poolio | yeah, I live really near one, Ill try to run up and get one tonight, if not I talked with the reseller I bought the laptop from and they can ship it tomorrow and get it to me Monday |
| 22:09.27 | brlcad | what's your brick say for power? |
| 22:09.43 | poolio | output is 19v |
| 22:09.50 | brlcad | ah yeah, they should have that |
| 22:10.19 | brlcad | might not even need the universal for that if you get lucky |
| 22:10.29 | brlcad | as they have various sizes prefit |
| 22:10.34 | poolio | well what i'm concerned about is the tip |
| 22:10.48 | poolio | the radio shacks here are really small, you sure they carry this stuff? |
| 22:10.49 | brlcad | yeah, just take in the laptop and adapter, test it |
| 22:11.16 | brlcad | i've yet to see one that didn't, but dunno for your area ;) |
| 22:11.47 | brlcad | it's usually in the back with the eletronic components .. where you *used* to be able to find cool stuff like resistors and capacitors :) |
| 22:11.56 | poolio | hehe |
| 22:12.04 | poolio | alright I'm going to head up there now, wish me luck :) |
| 22:12.09 | brlcad | good luck :) |
| 22:13.12 | poolio | it's covered under warranty but by the time it ships to taiwan and I get it back it'll be way too late |
| 22:13.19 | poolio | alright, off I go |
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| 22:14.51 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/TUuTO168.html <---- remeber fbserv, this one is bwish. |
| 22:15.38 | IriX64 | something weird, stuff is in there 3 times for the link |
| 22:16.08 | brlcad | there's nothing wrong with listing link items multiple times |
| 22:16.16 | IriX64 | ok |
| 22:16.57 | brlcad | the problem is still the same, there is some X library missing from the link line |
| 22:17.07 | IriX64 | this off cvs as of yesterday btw |
| 22:17.12 | brlcad | you have -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi |
| 22:17.18 | brlcad | there is another Xsomething missing |
| 22:17.32 | IriX64 | well you fixed fbserv please fix this one :) |
| 22:17.48 | brlcad | it's not something to "fix", it's based on configure options |
| 22:17.52 | brlcad | and configure tests |
| 22:18.05 | IriX64 | where should i look |
| 22:18.42 | brlcad | it's using a standard set of X11 library tests, we didn't even write them, so probably something is wrong in those tests for cygwin |
| 22:18.49 | brlcad | and the library has to be manually tested |
| 22:19.08 | IriX64 | do you know which lib? |
| 22:19.26 | brlcad | search the web, sett which library has XParseColor, XVisualIDFromVisual, XClipBox, etc .. all those undefined reference symbols are in some library -- need to find out which one |
| 22:19.46 | IriX64 | thanks, ill search |
| 22:19.47 | brlcad | s/sett/search for/ |
| 22:20.59 | IriX64 | i'll use ignore for now, don't reallly need bwish to play around |
| 22:21.59 | brlcad | it would help if you searched/found the issue, otherwise you're just going to bring it up again in a couple days and it will still be unresolved :P |
| 22:22.23 | IriX64 | lets hope there are none past that point ;) |
| 22:25.52 | IriX64 | why am i building this for an opteron, I had hopes of sharing it :) |
| 22:33.44 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/bzott990.html <--- hate to keep bothering you but this one's mged, and i *need mged, guess i really better start searching. |
| 22:37.15 | IriX64 | i'll keep it churning but if it's specific to my system, there really no point bothering you with it |
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| 00:35.13 | poolio | brlcad: UGHHHHHH |
| 01:32.00 | louipc | poolio: cmon I don't think he's that bad looking |
| 01:33.27 | poolio | louipc: Oh, I was actually referencing the pic brlcad sent me of you ;) |
| 01:35.31 | louipc | ouch |
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| 02:59.26 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:59.33 | brlcad | poolio: no luck? |
| 03:01.23 | poolio | brlcad: yes luck, went to 4 stores, dealing with people that were no help and were in fact hurtful |
| 03:01.30 | poolio | at compusa the guy tried to convince me _not_ to buy it |
| 03:01.41 | poolio | but I bought it and it worked, I plugged it in at the store just to makre sure |
| 03:01.52 | poolio | Cost an arm and a leg though, $110 :\ |
| 03:02.08 | poolio | Need my laptop to work though, didn't really have a choice |
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| 03:05.03 | brlcad | the shack didn't have the plug? |
| 03:05.13 | brlcad | or didn't have their usual kit at all? |
| 03:05.52 | poolio | brlcad: they did, it was more expesnive |
| 03:05.58 | poolio | $80 for initial + tip |
| 03:06.02 | poolio | and they wouldnt let me open the tips |
| 03:06.08 | poolio | so I would have had to buy each tip and check them |
| 03:06.20 | poolio | actually no, for the 90W it was $95 for initial |
| 03:06.33 | poolio | it was more exepsnive than the targus |
| 03:06.40 | poolio | and the shack had the tip thing, but no tips even close to the right size |
| 03:06.43 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 03:06.49 | poolio | and the iGo things they had only outputted max like 6 something volts |
| 03:06.58 | brlcad | shame, it was only 60-something iirc when I last got one a couple years ago |
| 03:07.18 | poolio | My plan is to buy it online for the price of $50, and return this one |
| 03:07.24 | poolio | (buy an actual replacement part) |
| 03:07.31 | brlcad | sounds like a good plan |
| 03:07.32 | poolio | I'm also seeing if I can RMA it but I think I'm out of my warranty |
| 05:18.23 | poolio | sleeeep |
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| 12:05.31 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/MxikwS41.html <---- is this normal behaviour for mged? |
| 12:25.15 | IriX64 | hmmm classic mode exhibits the same behaviour |
| 12:53.12 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.170.23) | |
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| 14:45.54 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/tpV5m780.html <---- poolio |
| 14:48.10 | poolio | ah oops |
| 14:48.14 | poolio | forgot to cvs up another part |
| 14:48.16 | poolio | one sec |
| 14:48.38 | IriX64 | sure |
| 14:48.58 | IriX64 | was just wondering how to fix it :) |
| 14:49.03 | poolio | k, give it a minute and then re-cvs |
| 14:49.08 | IriX64 | sure |
| 14:49.21 | Laniakea | no erik today? |
| 14:49.38 | IriX64 | who do you ask |
| 14:49.54 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h): more cosmetics and options updates |
| 14:50.02 | IriX64 | :) |
| 14:51.14 | poolio | IriX64: should be good now. thanks for testing :) |
| 14:51.17 | Laniakea | fitness.c more cosmetics? Sounds like brl-cad for women |
| 14:51.27 | IriX64 | welcome, will let you know |
| 14:51.51 | poolio | I spiced up fitness.c |
| 14:52.15 | poolio | Laniakea: He might be taking today off, I'd guess he is as it's already 11 and he's not here |
| 14:52.55 | Laniakea | +/- a lot |
| 14:53.13 | IriX64 | i'm gmt-5 |
| 14:53.25 | Laniakea | Who's doing gym in the spare time? |
| 14:53.41 | IriX64 | :) |
| 14:53.50 | Laniakea | you, IriX64 ? |
| 14:54.00 | IriX64 | smiled at the thought |
| 14:54.12 | Laniakea | someone did indeed - brlcad? |
| 14:56.35 | IriX64 | poolio, good good |
| 14:56.41 | poolio | IriX64: cheers. |
| 14:56.51 | IriX64 | wine please :) |
| 14:57.31 | Laniakea | wine, women, songs! |
| 14:57.51 | IriX64 | minstrel gypsies :) |
| 14:58.37 | Laniakea | I made a machine for hackers where they can improve their fitness while sitting at a computer without spending a single additional second of time |
| 14:58.42 | Laniakea | http://ronja.twibright.com/exciter/ |
| 15:11.45 | IriX64 | grouses too |
| 15:17.45 | IriX64 | wanna hear something hilarious, windows ntvdm prompt is doing a make distclean |
| 15:20.30 | IriX64 | soons its done, i'll pastebin the final output |
| 15:23.40 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/wrqlAH10.html <--- i'll play with that some more later right now i've got an install to do |
| 15:36.11 | IriX64 | heh to configure brlcad = bash ./configure :) |
| 15:38.02 | IriX64 | rotflmao |
| 15:38.38 | IriX64 | prompt line was the problem before |
| 15:44.40 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/qfCgdS28.html <--- not a bad exercise, but you still need all the support files in the path so why bother, why not just run it in the cygwin environment, or is there a use for gcc that'll run on windows? |
| 16:10.28 | poolio | brlcad: Is there any way to find out which data structure is taking up the memory? |
| 16:20.47 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593372.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 16:22.53 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:24.05 | IriX64_ | http://rafb.net/p/0vKxju60.html << this things hilarious |
| 16:24.53 | ``Erik | um, ok...and? |
| 16:25.10 | IriX64_ | im gonna try to build it |
| 16:27.47 | IriX64_ | maybe it'll run better on windows if it's built under windows :) |
| 16:34.30 | poolio | I lied, ``Erik is here apparently :P |
| 16:34.44 | ``Erik | no I'm not |
| 16:35.24 | IriX64 | heh sometimes i'm knot sometimes I yam :) |
| 16:37.52 | IriX64 | sigh.... thereis something to be said for pointless fun :) |
| 16:40.49 | IriX64 | btw this gcc doesn't require the shell, just a sprinkling of cygwin dll's |
| 16:41.23 | poolio | brlcad: I've isolated the memory leak. If all I have is rtip = rt_new_rti(db); rt_clean(rtip); the memory shoots up... |
| 16:42.23 | poolio | brlcad: oh, it looks like I need to close and reopen the database after calling rt_new_rti? |
| 16:44.47 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/xrMgoI74.html <--- ill stop pasting these now, (but it's so much fun) |
| 16:47.20 | IriX64 | *poof* WininX is born :) |
| 16:48.47 | poolio | Hoorah! Fixed due to my stupidity. I copied incorrect code from g_qa and ... needs to be rt_clean_rti() not rt_clean() |
| 16:57.25 | IriX64 | make is happy as long as it finds the shell hehehe |
| 17:02.03 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/winix.png |
| 17:03.37 | poolio | Woah! It runs so much faster without memory leaks :) |
| 17:21.33 | poolio | 2.7M Image, current status: doesn't look like it's converging but memory leaks are fixed and it runs much faster: [#cslounge] |
| 17:21.36 | poolio | oops |
| 17:21.40 | poolio | http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2sph_large.jpg |
| 17:21.41 | poolio | there we go |
| 17:34.21 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/FJk0WY28.html << missed this one last time |
| 17:34.32 | IriX64 | opennurbs |
| 17:41.14 | poolio | brlcad: ahhhh! I'm getting 1GB of just database files :\ |
| 17:48.18 | poolio | brlcad: I think I have some success though! :D check it out: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_3sph_good.jpg |
| 17:48.31 | poolio | all that changed was some tweaking of the fitness function and damn.... that looks like progress |
| 17:56.35 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h): memory leak finally fixed. updated fitness function, much better results. |
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| 20:23.28 | IriX64 | heh i'm checking out brlcad into the windows environment /me is happy :) |
| 20:24.23 | IriX64 | anyone want a windows (+ cygwin dll's) cvs proggie? |
| 20:31.46 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/BT4WuO47.html <--- once the associations are made it's all falling into place |
| 20:38.21 | IriX64 | http://www.rafb.net/paste/ i'll stop now again :) |
| 20:38.27 | IriX64 | whoop |
| 20:39.28 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/uK2e8y39.html forgot to submit it :) |
| 20:40.16 | poolio | i'm out for a bit. ta ta. |
| 20:40.23 | IriX64 | cya man |
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| 20:55.22 | thing0 | morning yall |
| 21:00.46 | louipc | afternoon |
| 21:02.49 | thing0 | just got in from clubbing ;) |
| 21:04.48 | louipc | sweet |
| 21:04.54 | louipc | I might go clubbing tonight |
| 21:06.40 | louipc | Laniakea: nice machine hah. maybe you should make a portable 'thigh-master' version |
| 21:09.07 | Laniakea | what's thigh-master? |
| 21:12.10 | louipc | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thighmaster |
| 21:13.53 | louipc | sweet I found a vid http://youtube.com/watch?v=wkxFWVGqUCg |
| 21:59.01 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 22:04.42 | brlcad | poolio: if you copied incorrect code, then it's not really your stupidity :) |
| 22:04.48 | brlcad | great for finding that, btw :) |
| 22:05.27 | brlcad | sounds like the bug, though, is in g_qa .. which should probably be fixed too :) |
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| 23:28.47 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/BN9rlo85.html <--- making progress, look closely at the last two lines. |
| 23:31.15 | ``Erik | rm with the -f flag never reports anything. |
| 23:31.35 | IriX64 | thought that was force no ? |
| 23:31.41 | ``Erik | it is |
| 23:31.53 | IriX64 | toasted a whole dos tree :) |
| 23:32.06 | ``Erik | deltree /y C:\ <-- does it, too |
| 23:32.07 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:32.17 | ``Erik | or at least, it USED to, I d'no about modern winderz |
| 23:32.23 | IriX64 | yeah and easier to implement :) |
| 23:32.49 | IriX64 | del has switches i think thesze days |
| 23:33.20 | IriX64 | just rebuilt that dos tree with cvs heh |
| 23:33.39 | IriX64 | why dual boot, use one on top of another |
| 23:33.45 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:33.59 | ``Erik | the usual argument for using a *nix is improved stability, reliability, performance, etc |
| 23:34.09 | ``Erik | why would you put that ontop of windows? |
| 23:34.13 | IriX64 | wonder how hard it'll be to get kde up |
| 23:34.27 | ``Erik | a fortress with a balsa foundation? :) |
| 23:34.28 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:34.34 | ``Erik | j0, twingy |
| 23:34.39 | IriX64 | for sots like me who are to lazy to learn all the moves of *nix |
| 23:35.46 | ``Erik | you seem to be confident in basic command line usage *shrug* plus, kde and gnome pander to the winderz folk for default config, so you'd theoretically feel more or less at home out of the box |
| 23:35.59 | Twingy | howdy |
| 23:36.51 | ``Erik | neat, what ic? |
| 23:36.59 | Twingy | 18F67J11 |
| 23:37.05 | ``Erik | and has jason tricked/coerced you into a micro-t or micro-baja yet? |
| 23:37.10 | Twingy | 128kB Flash, 4kB RAM, 2 USARTs |
| 23:37.17 | Twingy | no money |
| 23:37.27 | ``Erik | nah, the great big superbehometh of the PIC family? |
| 23:37.28 | Twingy | spending it all on electronics |
| 23:37.37 | ``Erik | I've been half eyeing my 16f88's here lately |
| 23:37.49 | Twingy | kinda... microchip has a 16-bit line now that has some DSP stuff and has 8 registers instead of just 1 |
| 23:37.57 | Twingy | in theory you could put a light weight operating system on it |
| 23:38.10 | ``Erik | I've also been thinking about busting out my hammer, box of nails, and buying some wood |
| 23:38.29 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/DsgQQB16.html <--- heh the associations held thru a power off/on cycle (hello twingy) |
| 23:38.33 | Twingy | I will probably move onto an ARM7S with math coprocessor though |
| 23:38.34 | dtidrow | is that an adapter from a surface-mount format to a DIP-style one? |
| 23:38.41 | ``Erik | um, in practice, primitive operating systems have been put on machines less powerful than the 16f88 in teh past :D (I'm such a computer history dork *sigh*) |
| 23:38.44 | Twingy | dtidrow, yes |
| 23:38.55 | Twingy | QFP64 made on my cnc mill |
| 23:39.13 | dtidrow | ah - figured it was etched |
| 23:39.15 | ``Erik | are you going to solder it to the final pcb, or use a socket? |
| 23:39.16 | Twingy | the stuff I'm doing is interrupt driven, so an OS isn't required |
| 23:39.26 | Twingy | everything is soldered |
| 23:39.29 | Twingy | no sockets |
| 23:39.30 | IriX64 | whoa |
| 23:39.33 | ``Erik | (and that's some awesome granularity work at that size) |
| 23:39.35 | IriX64 | no os |
| 23:39.42 | Twingy | took about 3.5 hours to make that |
| 23:39.52 | Twingy | ~45 minutes to solder... |
| 23:39.54 | ``Erik | hand constructed, no trace compiler? |
| 23:40.19 | Twingy | I used eagle with autorouting, made a schematic then converted to a board |
| 23:40.28 | ``Erik | ah, coo' |
| 23:40.36 | ``Erik | is the big flash area ground, or dead? |
| 23:40.41 | Twingy | even though gcam can conver gerber files to g-code now |
| 23:40.47 | Twingy | dead |
| 23:40.54 | dtidrow | soldering surface-mount stuff is tricky without the right tools |
| 23:41.15 | Twingy | I used solder paste and a $20 griddle from walmart |
| 23:41.24 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:41.31 | dtidrow | cheater ;-) |
| 23:41.34 | ``Erik | hillbilly sme oven? :D |
| 23:41.44 | Twingy | it works.. 400F, paste melts at 380F |
| 23:41.50 | Twingy | got the idea from Nathan |
| 23:41.58 | ``Erik | you could do that in your kitchen oven, too |
| 23:42.08 | ``Erik | bake up a batch of surface mounts along with your cookies |
| 23:42.29 | Twingy | probably don't want to put food on it after it's been baking boards |
| 23:42.42 | Twingy | even though the solder paste is RoHS I think |
| 23:43.02 | Twingy | soldering QFP64's is a pita with no solder mask |
| 23:43.04 | IriX64 | RoHS=? |
| 23:43.35 | Twingy | Restriction of Hazardous Substances |
| 23:43.41 | Twingy | i.e. no lead |
| 23:44.01 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 23:44.27 | Twingy | I've been using clear coat to prevent the copper from oxidation one the board is done |
| 23:44.30 | ``Erik | hummmm, that back to the future car, that's at, uh, universal studios out in la? looks awful familiar |
| 23:44.51 | ``Erik | if that's the same, they haven't changed the exhibit in over 10 years |
| 23:45.40 | IriX64 | Train or car :) |
| 23:45.49 | Twingy | car |
| 23:48.16 | Twingy | the 2 students I'm mentoring have a working autopilot for an emaxx now |
| 23:48.24 | Twingy | running off an 18F2420 |
| 23:48.53 | Twingy | I have a little report on how I was able to put GPS, Servo PWM, Control, and Comms on a single PIC chip |
| 23:49.13 | Twingy | they are using the base code and filled in the control function to navigate waypoints |
| 23:49.29 | ``Erik | already out? |
| 23:49.34 | Twingy | not yet |
| 23:49.38 | Twingy | finishing it up |
| 23:49.42 | ``Erik | <-- wouldn't mind being on the dist list |
| 23:49.48 | Twingy | it's all interrupt driven |
| 23:49.59 | Twingy | pwm is tuned perfectly on an o-scope |
| 23:50.19 | IriX64 | if theres no os shouldn't it be event driven :) |
| 23:50.32 | ``Erik | erm, interrupts are events, yo |
| 23:50.43 | IriX64 | depends who you talk to |
| 23:50.54 | dtidrow | where do you think the events come from? ;-) |
| 23:51.08 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:51.15 | IriX64 | you mean interrupts |
| 23:51.35 | ``Erik | interrupts happen, some os's decide to throw an event if it sees one |
| 23:51.48 | IriX64 | semantics |
| 23:51.52 | ``Erik | if you consider interrupts and events different, that is... |
| 23:52.18 | IriX64 | are they reentrant |
| 23:52.39 | ``Erik | interrupts themselves are atomic |
| 23:52.54 | Twingy | PWM and RS-232 is a real-time process and must be serviced by interrupts |
| 23:52.56 | ``Erik | what happens at high levels, where re-entrant and 'events' live depends on the developer |
| 23:53.22 | Twingy | control is something that does not need to be real-time and can occur between interrupts |
| 23:53.49 | IriX64 | an event can occur numerous times per second, the interrupt handler must be able to handle this |
| 23:53.53 | dtidrow | time to head home.... |
| 23:53.54 | Twingy | hardware buffered UARTs are very critical in a real-time environment |
| 23:54.10 | ``Erik | on the x86, for example, when an unmasked interrupt occurs, the interrupt handler will generally call 'cli', set up the appropriate event propogation, and once that's completed (atomically), call sti to allow the next interrupt |
| 23:54.20 | ``Erik | which, of course, happens in a scale of microseconds, if not nanoseconds |
| 23:54.37 | Twingy | on the PIC chip an interrupt eats about 6 instructions |
| 23:55.06 | IriX64 | bear in mind i only type with two fingers here |
| 23:55.30 | ``Erik | very slowly |
| 23:55.42 | IriX64 | heh doubled up did you |
| 23:55.49 | IriX64 | ;) |
| 23:57.51 | IriX64 | have two here need a third |
| 23:58.07 | ``Erik | I have two premade sockets, one in my bedroom and one downstairs, so installation should be trivial |
| 23:58.20 | IriX64 | true most are anyway |
| 23:59.42 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/0yqIws56.html <-- this isn't rocket science but i'm proud anyway :) |
| 00:00.26 | IriX64 | do i dare try to make it, make is associated so it should go |
| 00:01.31 | IriX64 | rotflmao |
| 00:01.41 | IriX64 | its doing it again |
| 00:02.24 | IriX64 | gotta go out for a bit later thanks for educating me |
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| 00:20.37 | IriX64 | guy i went to see had the gall to ask me if I was of the true religion, I answered of course, beleiving is the true relgion, catholicism, judaism, etc are merely *ways of beleiving, sheeesh |
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| 00:24.15 | IriX64 | scuse me venting on you sigh |
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| 00:31.39 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8vMizB71.html <--- guys this ones yours |
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| 00:53.56 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/wW7wwR25.html <-- okay, this ones not completley proper, because I used the -i(gnore) switch on make to force it to keep going around that error i just pasted a while ago, but ntvdm built it |
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| 02:02.25 | poolio | evenin |
| 02:21.49 | poolio | brlcad: I had a question about some memory clean up and stuff. I found that the rtips needed to be cleaned with rt_clean_rti(), should I also be clearing the resource pointers? and what about rt_uniresource? should I run rt_clean_resource on those? |
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| 04:28.30 | brlcad | poolio: yes, the resource structures should always belong to the application and it's the app's job to free them (if you see api that contradicts this, let me know or try fixing it -- there shouldn't be) |
| 04:31.07 | brlcad | rt_clean_resource will do "most" of the job of free'ing data except for one case that I don't believe you're using (but you should be able to ignore that case regardless) |
| 04:31.25 | brlcad | rt_uniresource is special, you don't free it (you didn't allocate it) |
| 04:31.41 | brlcad | you can clean it, but iirc, it doesn't really matter much |
| 04:32.44 | poolio | brlcad: but if I have it setup for multiple CPUS, I should make sure to free all the resource pointers? |
| 04:33.33 | poolio | also: it appears g_qa doesn't clean anything. I'm not quite sure where I got rt_clean() usage from. g_transfer uses rt_clean but proceeds to rt_clean_rti() later |
| 04:34.01 | brlcad | yes |
| 04:34.29 | brlcad | rt_clean just prepares for the next frame and/or render session |
| 04:34.45 | brlcad | g_transfer is a demo application where it shoots rays over and over until it's shut down |
| 04:34.56 | brlcad | so between each session, it needs to clean |
| 04:35.09 | brlcad | but then on shutdown, it needs to clear out the rti |
| 04:36.52 | poolio | wait, so if I have a rtip that i'm going to re-extrace from a db_i, do I need to run rt_clean_rti or just rt_clean? |
| 04:37.04 | poolio | note, rt_gettree() is going to be recalled |
| 04:38.57 | brlcad | hmm |
| 04:41.01 | brlcad | that's a good question, I'm not positive without re-reading the guts, but I think you will need to rt_clean_rti() as the directory structure needs to be cleared out (which is in the rti) |
| 04:41.03 | poolio | I can experiment but it's hard to tell |
| 04:41.21 | poolio | alright yeah, because rt_new_rti clones the db_i |
| 04:41.22 | brlcad | rt_clean_rti() runs rt_clean() too fwiw |
| 04:41.28 | poolio | yeah that's correct |
| 06:08.00 | poolio | brlcad: you around at this hour? |
| 06:08.41 | poolio | zit |
| 06:09.21 | poolio | wow my brain is fried |
| 06:09.36 | poolio | i was trying to type exit in another window, and managed to type ex adn then must have tapped into this and typed zit |
| 06:09.39 | poolio | I guess I'll go to sleep now |
| 06:09.41 | poolio | gnite :) |
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| 09:00.13 | Laniakea | ``Erik: have you managed to install the openbsd into your emulator? |
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| 10:37.24 | ken | this is kenwolcott from the mailing list, looking for someone who knows anything about the deal with the website. feel free to ping me or whatever if you have any info |
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| 12:58.20 | ``Erik | hrm, what? huh? what website? |
| 13:12.03 | ken | ohey there |
| 13:12.23 | ken | I responded to a thing on sourceforge about a webdesigner wanted |
| 13:12.36 | ken | I got this email that said "drop by irc" |
| 13:13.51 | ken | Im just here asking about what's expected, in terms of design/function and all that |
| 13:51.56 | *** part/#brlcad zapp (n=deltazap@pool-72-64-146-7.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) | |
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| 14:44.12 | ``Erik | ah, brlcad is the guy to talk to, when he wakes up O.o |
| 14:44.43 | ``Erik | I presume you've perused what exists at the moment? |
| 14:45.25 | ken | the b+w site? |
| 14:45.29 | ``Erik | and are comfortable with the notion of making a grotesqly conformant page (i.e. renders on just about any browser, with just about any font size, screen size, etc) |
| 14:45.40 | ken | yea, that wont be a problem |
| 14:45.47 | ``Erik | http://www.brlcad.org/ |
| 14:46.29 | ``Erik | okie, brlcad is the guy to talk to :) I have to go make a shopping list and head now O.o hasta |
| 14:46.45 | ken | kk |
| 14:47.04 | ken | do svedanya |
| 14:53.44 | brlcad | howdy ken |
| 14:53.59 | ken | how are ya? |
| 14:54.18 | brlcad | pretty good, still shaking off some sleep |
| 14:54.35 | ken | thats good to hear |
| 14:55.00 | ken | you mentioned mediawiki in the email |
| 14:55.06 | ken | I like that idea |
| 14:55.58 | ken | I was wondering about layout/color/etc |
| 14:56.08 | brlcad | yes, I actually mentioned a lot of things, iirc too :) |
| 14:56.35 | brlcad | there are four primary sections to the site that need to be worked on, with various levels of independence for those sections |
| 14:57.27 | ken | right |
| 14:57.49 | ken | but its all going to look pretty much the same, right? |
| 14:57.50 | brlcad | as I mentioneed, there's already a guy that's been working on the front portal section of the site, he's unfortunately not here this weekend though he'll be back on Mon |
| 14:58.04 | brlcad | they can look the same or not |
| 14:58.11 | brlcad | so long as their consistent within their section |
| 14:58.16 | ken | I mean, visually consistant and all? or are they four different sites? |
| 14:58.18 | ken | riht |
| 14:58.25 | brlcad | so there's a lot of flexibility in terms of how each one looks independently |
| 14:59.05 | brlcad | they're really four different sections to the same site, they all relate to and are connected to BRL-CAD |
| 15:00.02 | brlcad | though they could be on separate domain names for identity or something, maybe separate virtual names, or even separate domains -- but all interconnected in terms of navigation and data being presented |
| 15:00.54 | brlcad | for example it would be really useful on the main page to have a summary of the benchmark statistics, a graph of recent results or entry statistics |
| 15:01.32 | ken | right |
| 15:02.03 | brlcad | and selecing that data would then of course take you to the section that talks about what the performance numbers mean, just what is the "BRL-CAD Benchmark", how to add their own results, download a benchmark-only binary kit, etc |
| 15:02.39 | brlcad | that benchmark performance section could be in the same drupal/mediawiki install or could be entirely custom |
| 15:04.01 | brlcad | i say that mainly because it's going to be pretty tricky to do all of the backend connections, like for that performance section, without a bit of customization (both on the backend and the front end), so I did not want to artificially constrain any of those four sections amongst each other |
| 15:05.16 | brlcad | so if you're interested in working on one of the sections, I can point out some of the stuff that's already being worked and what's not |
| 15:06.34 | ken | well, most of what Ive done is front-end code, with a bit of (very) light php/perl to make it useful, but if I need new skills, it wouldnt hurt the resume to pick em up |
| 15:08.01 | brlcad | I think the less customization we can get away with the better, because that makes for less of a maintenance burden |
| 15:09.14 | brlcad | e.g. I think you could probably do the entire performance database and materials database in just about any CMS with a fair bit of setup, and entirely through the frontend if one wanted |
| 15:10.12 | ken | actually, I'd imagine the materials db wouldnt be too much setup in mediawiki |
| 15:11.03 | brlcad | hmm, that's entirely possible .. hadn't thought that one through so much |
| 15:12.06 | brlcad | the difficulty I think would be having a consistent set of information for each material as well as having summary information pages |
| 15:12.41 | ken | just add a few more form fields on the upload page? |
| 15:12.52 | brlcad | like if you wanted to do a search of all metals that have a density over some specified value |
| 15:13.17 | brlcad | or if you wanted a table of all materials that have a brinell hardness < .2 |
| 15:13.33 | ken | yea, I was just gonna say, toss in some kinda search deal beyond the very basic find-a-page |
| 15:13.47 | brlcad | just looking at an "info sheet" of rolled hardened steel #12 and comparing it to some other material side-by-side |
| 15:14.03 | brlcad | and being able to compare the same fields |
| 15:14.20 | brlcad | without manually editing both wiki pages, manually categorizing every property, etc |
| 15:15.01 | ken | right, just make the search useful |
| 15:15.25 | ken | instead of lists of links, bring up tables |
| 15:15.58 | brlcad | how would someone "add a new material" with mediawiki, though? |
| 15:16.02 | ken | the one problem I can see is that I've been told wikis can be a bit nuts with sql queries |
| 15:16.40 | brlcad | I'm just having trouble seeing how it'd work I suppose, without them copy/pasting another existing material record that already had a given set of fields |
| 15:16.59 | ken | upload file, fill out a few info fields, and somewhere in the back some voodoo happens that pulls out any numeric data thats too banal to make uploaders type in |
| 15:17.14 | brlcad | mind you, I'm not adept in all the intricate details of mediawiki, I mostly know it from the initial setup, and basic editing aspects |
| 15:20.42 | brlcad | there isn't any file to upload for materials (at least not yet), it's all fundamental material properties for the most part where materials have items like their name, density, brinell hardness, formal name, short name, young's modulus, tensile strength, elongation at break, etc |
| 15:22.48 | ken | yea, as long as it can be read from whatever's uploaded |
| 15:24.32 | brlcad | erm, there isn't a standard file format or anything for this stuff |
| 15:24.50 | ken | yea, I was just looking into that |
| 15:25.08 | brlcad | that's where I was thinking you'd just have a form or sections of properties that people filled in |
| 15:25.48 | brlcad | sometimes you know just a couple items like the name and a density, sometimes you know everything like the actaul % breakdown of elemental molecules |
| 15:26.28 | ``Erik | http://www.explosm.net/comics brutal |
| 15:26.32 | ken | so just autofill the rest with NA or unknown? |
| 15:27.10 | ``Erik | (and it seems to me... with the section visibility thingymajigger... if everything was real simple and properly marked, then a couple stylesheets could be chucked out to 'pretty' it up |
| 15:27.12 | ``Erik | ) |
| 15:27.13 | brlcad | by the way, for that particular task, there is a site that provides some of this information, but the difference here is that this is entirely open and free to all and that the content is specifically related to solid modeling and rendering so we can do things like associate textures and visible properties along with the physical traits |
| 15:28.07 | ``Erik | that'd allow archaic browsers like lynx to still be happy, as the page source is, y'know, content oriented instead of visually oriented |
| 15:28.08 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:28.41 | ken | yea, thats how the internets been wanting to be lately |
| 15:29.16 | ``Erik | and last I heard, there was no canonical list of what properties a material has :/ that has to be decided before any serious 'content aware' search mechanism could really be decided |
| 15:29.24 | ``Erik | does water have a brinell hardness? O.o |
| 15:29.31 | brlcad | ken: yeah, it can be autofilled, but I'm just not seeing what then that means w.r.t. mediawiki data -- as traditionally at least, they're basically tracking the content for a given page that can be freeform |
| 15:29.49 | brlcad | is there a way to force pages to have a particular format in mw? |
| 15:29.59 | ``Erik | css |
| 15:30.08 | ken | take for example the image template |
| 15:30.25 | ``Erik | iirc, the default mw look is all in css |
| 15:30.29 | brlcad | ``Erik: huh?? |
| 15:30.32 | ken | it is |
| 15:30.34 | ken | well |
| 15:30.34 | brlcad | you're talking about something different |
| 15:30.40 | brlcad | i'm not talking about the visual layout |
| 15:30.43 | ``Erik | oh |
| 15:30.44 | ken | its xhtml + css + jscript |
| 15:30.44 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:30.59 | brlcad | i don't care about that, I mean the format of the data |
| 15:31.05 | ``Erik | I don't think so |
| 15:31.08 | brlcad | what fields are there and which aren't |
| 15:31.19 | ``Erik | other than hacking the php or the local config .inc file |
| 15:32.22 | ``Erik | I know with the admin pages, you can tweak what's on the sidebar |
| 15:32.24 | ken | for uploading an image, the default gives you the option to name it and leave a comment |
| 15:32.37 | brlcad | ken: that's what I'm referring to about making it work with mw -- you can do that sort of forced customization in other CMS systems without the customization (drupal, plone, joomla, etc) |
| 15:32.47 | ken | but theyre stored a single sql db |
| 15:33.10 | brlcad | yeah, this is sort of like how images themselves are managed |
| 15:33.12 | ken | all the junk associated with uploaded media |
| 15:33.21 | brlcad | but instead of images, it's a set of material properties (as a collection) |
| 15:33.26 | ken | right |
| 15:33.37 | brlcad | how to *enforce* that set is the trick |
| 15:33.51 | brlcad | as new users aren't going to know anything about which to include or not |
| 15:37.05 | ken | I see what youre saying |
| 15:37.46 | ken | for some reason, I'm still thinking of materials being uploaded files |
| 15:38.04 | ken | ok |
| 15:38.07 | brlcad | yeah, there are no files, the data is really scattered too (hence the strong need for a single database) |
| 15:38.45 | ken | ok, so then this beast'll pretty much have to be built from the ground up, right? |
| 15:38.54 | brlcad | media might be able to do it, i mean wikipedia sort of does this for corporations, countries, movies, and other items |
| 15:39.15 | brlcad | e.g. the right column on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_project is sort of what we're needing |
| 15:39.30 | brlcad | but actually enforced consistent format that would be used .. hundreds of times |
| 15:40.07 | brlcad | and if we have to add a field two months down the road, do we have to edit several hundred pages, or is it just added in one place as part of the template, etc |
| 15:40.07 | ken | so just pulling data into a table? |
| 15:40.47 | brlcad | pretty much, though there are also relations |
| 15:41.02 | brlcad | and categories (that are not fully known right now, but do exist) |
| 15:41.03 | ken | if its just data-to-table, then you can add a field and let the contributors fill in the blanks where they find them |
| 15:41.37 | brlcad | hmm.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infobox |
| 15:42.07 | brlcad | it's a matter of whether they actually "see" that there are blanks |
| 15:42.20 | brlcad | how would they know? |
| 15:42.43 | ken | drop a form feild in the blank with a default fill of "unknown" |
| 15:42.53 | ken | something that looks editable |
| 15:43.00 | brlcad | that works for new, what about those already existing? |
| 15:43.00 | ken | like it needs to be filled in |
| 15:43.46 | brlcad | say you want to add a new field called "Ken's stamp of approval" to a database that already has 500 items, for example |
| 15:44.23 | brlcad | how would I as a user browsing/editing know that there's now a new field that could be filled in |
| 15:44.58 | ken | right, it would add a value of <input type="text" ...>unknown</input> to all pre existing items |
| 15:45.11 | brlcad | with the infobox approah, according to what i'm (just now) reading .. you could add the field, but it won't be applied to any existing data |
| 15:45.33 | brlcad | "it would add" .. howso? and what is it? |
| 15:46.55 | ken | when you add a new field, it would add a new sql column to the table. the default fill would be the unknown field |
| 15:47.40 | brlcad | er, are you talking about custom or through mediawiki or both or neither? :) |
| 15:47.46 | ken | custom |
| 15:47.50 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 15:48.00 | brlcad | well, for custom sure! =) |
| 15:48.07 | brlcad | I thought you were taking mw would do that |
| 15:48.12 | brlcad | s/taking/saying/ |
| 15:48.13 | ken | probably |
| 15:48.16 | ken | it might |
| 15:48.43 | ken | but I was talking about custom |
| 15:48.48 | brlcad | okay |
| 15:49.04 | ken | I'm not entirely sure of EVERYTHING mediawiki capable of out of the box |
| 15:49.16 | ken | *is capable |
| 15:49.53 | brlcad | nor am I frankly, just going by what I already know and what I've been reading about the infoboxes that seem to be the closest to what we'd need |
| 15:49.57 | ken | but its just some really simple php to do this custom |
| 15:50.42 | brlcad | except that I see zero-consistency enforcement with infoboxes, you have to edit all pages if the infobox template changes .. that'd suck :) |
| 15:50.55 | ken | right |
| 15:57.27 | ken | so we're dropping the infobox deal and going with a fresh and new addition to the wiki to handle this, right? |
| 15:57.35 | ken | sorry, I thought I sent that already |
| 16:02.58 | brlcad | maybe you did and I just misunderstood you :) |
| 16:03.33 | ken | no, I made a pot of coffee and came back, it was still sitting here waiting for me to hit enter |
| 16:03.38 | brlcad | do you still think a wiki would be best, or a cms, or fully custom, or ? |
| 16:04.40 | ken | well, for community development I like the idea of a wiki as opposed to another cms simply because its so much easier for just anyone to add to or edit or anything like that |
| 16:06.04 | ken | just about everyone's already familiar with wiki markup (as opposed to most other cmses where to, say, add a link you have to know about the anchor tag - or use markdown, which all of 6 people on earth have experience with) |
| 16:06.23 | ken | and if theyre not, its a lot simpler to learn and faster to use |
| 16:07.50 | ken | for this part, just tack it on to mw |
| 16:09.33 | ken | write the functionality we're looking for, staple it to the wiki as either a plug in or part of the actual base... something like that |
| 16:10.03 | ken | or drupal, or whatever youre going with |
| 16:11.42 | ken | like I said, I like the idea of a wiki for this part, but then I just kinda walked in today, and I'm not entirely as familiar with the needs of the site overall as anyone who's been working on it (or even just thinking about it) for more than 20 minutes |
| 16:12.24 | ken | a wiki also has the benefit of functioning as a wiki |
| 16:18.10 | brlcad | I agree in general on the ease of use, wiki certainly has the power over cms for that, though in this case it's sort of "form-centric" where there's a predefined set of data (that will likely change over time, but is part of the structure regardless) |
| 16:19.18 | brlcad | and don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating one vs the other -- I just like to think things through for how they'd work in practice down the road, maintainability and growth |
| 16:20.36 | brlcad | the wiki has a big leg up on customizability since, as you note, anyone could amend the template without needing to know html or sql or php, etc .. it's just then consistency of the "database" itself where some materials would be conformant to an old template, some to a newer |
| 16:21.28 | brlcad | the main portal site is actually going to be a drupal/mediawiki hybrid that work with each other |
| 16:22.00 | brlcad | MinuteElectron already has both set up and working now, ready for data to start being entered to populate that section |
| 16:23.22 | brlcad | there's another guy looking at the performance database, though from what he'd discussed, I think he's going a custom route (conceptually, it could use the same mediawiki plugin if one was made for the materials) |
| 16:28.52 | brlcad | ken: so, I like your idea .. the next question then is how familiar are you with mediawiki plugins :) |
| 16:29.10 | ken | brb, phone |
| 16:30.48 | brlcad | otherwise, I'd have to imagine that mediawiki already has _something_ that would help for doing this already as I'd think it'd be pretty common to want to have form data in the wiki format |
| 16:35.00 | ken | i have this minor crisis to deal with, whens a good time to come band get ahold of ya? this evening/tomorrowish? |
| 16:37.22 | brlcad | i'm on the channel most days every day at some time of the day :) |
| 16:37.31 | brlcad | just hop on irc and linger a while, you'll usually find me |
| 16:37.36 | brlcad | otherwise the mailing list is fine too |
| 16:38.03 | brlcad | i'm eastern u.s. timezone-wise, if that helps |
| 16:38.26 | brlcad | though my "offline"/sleep schedule is fairly chaotic |
| 16:46.21 | ken | kk thx, I'll be back tonight |
| 16:52.45 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
| 16:53.02 | brlcad | looks like templates actually can work for this |
| 16:53.13 | brlcad | the only issue then becomes comparisons, searching, and summaries |
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| 17:18.14 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 17:56.48 | poolio | brlcad: what's up with my.brlcad.org? I kind of like the new look... :P |
| 17:58.00 | brlcad | heh, that's drupal's default theme |
| 17:59.04 | poolio | I like it :) |
| 17:59.13 | poolio | brlcad: can I get a vhost on my.brlcad.org and use it? |
| 17:59.29 | brlcad | sure |
| 17:59.56 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/fo2gOO80.html ``Erik, look familiar ;) |
| 17:59.57 | poolio | sweeet |
| 18:00.22 | poolio | brlcad: how's that worth with like the databases and stuff? can two simultaneous drupal vhosts exist peacefully? |
| 18:02.22 | brlcad | they have nothing to do with each other |
| 18:02.31 | brlcad | you could use the same db or an entirely different db |
| 18:02.37 | poolio | hmm alright. |
| 18:02.41 | brlcad | vhosts can be set up fairly arbitrarily too |
| 18:03.00 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/Jd17Ls16.html ``Erik... too sweet :) |
| 18:03.01 | brlcad | vhost, btw would be on "brlcad.org" .. "my.brlcad.org" is a vhost on brlcad.org |
| 18:03.03 | poolio | Hmm, so like if I wanted to have my own sited hosted by you that used drupal, that'd work completely fine? |
| 18:03.12 | brlcad | sure |
| 18:03.12 | poolio | brlcad: well I have my own domain name |
| 18:03.20 | poolio | I justt don't have the box online anymore |
| 18:03.27 | brlcad | ah, gotya |
| 18:03.31 | poolio | brlcad: So how would I go about doing that? Or would you need to do it? |
| 18:03.37 | brlcad | i read it as the name, not the box |
| 18:03.59 | brlcad | box is generally called just .bz or mbo ;) |
| 18:04.26 | brlcad | you'd need to update your dns to point to an IP that I'd give you, then I'd set up apache to respond to that name |
| 18:04.37 | brlcad | then it'd be done |
| 18:04.44 | poolio | brlcad: I mainly want to get a blog going with the progress of it. As I'm going to be tewaking a lot of variables it'd be nice if I could see my own progress and see if it is in fact progressing, and also that way I can aviod spamming the chat so much with images and descriptions. (and also when people ask what I'm working on I can point them to an explanation as opposed to rewriting paragraphs and paragraphs ;)) |
| 18:04.50 | brlcad | takes all of 10 minutes to set up at most |
| 18:05.06 | poolio | alright cool. whenever you have time that'd be sweet |
| 18:06.14 | brlcad | aiight, the ip can be 66.111.56.56, so just let me know which name |
| 18:07.07 | poolio | what do you mean which name? as in what's my domain name? |
| 18:08.47 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:09.03 | poolio | poolio.org |
| 18:10.02 | poolio | brlcad has brlcad.org, poolio has poolio.org |
| 18:18.44 | brlcad | done |
| 18:18.51 | poolio | brlcad: heh, thanks |
| 18:19.02 | poolio | brlcad: so what do I need to do on my side? point the domain to that IP? |
| 18:21.26 | poolio | brlcad: is it ip-based? like can I just forward to the mbo box? and it will disambiguate the IP to the poolio.org vhost? |
| 18:32.17 | poolio | brlcad: woah, there's something messed up with the DNS as it propogates....I'm pinging poolio.org and half the time I'm getting my home address and the other half I'm getting the right one on mbo :P |
| 18:34.31 | brlcad | poolio: you update your dns record for poolio.org to point to that IP as the "A" record |
| 18:35.08 | poolio | brlcad: Yeah I got that, but in terms of how the VHOST works |
| 18:35.12 | brlcad | you apparently have dns set to everydns.net |
| 18:35.29 | brlcad | s/to/through/ |
| 18:35.32 | poolio | That IP is just the IP of mbo, how does it distinguish whcih VHOST to send the request to? via the header? |
| 18:35.39 | poolio | brlcad: I've updated the records already |
| 18:35.46 | brlcad | requests come in by the url, by name |
| 18:35.52 | poolio | ah alright |
| 18:36.04 | poolio | and setting up drupal? is that hard? |
| 18:36.27 | brlcad | so the apache can be asked to respond to requests for .. pretty much anything -- by default it won't respond to anything it doesn't recognize |
| 18:36.40 | brlcad | you tell me, have fun :) |
| 18:36.47 | IriX64 | http://www.rafb.net/paste/ <--- man, help me out here where's that // coming from? |
| 18:36.51 | brlcad | (no, it's not hard at all .. one of the easiest) |
| 18:37.11 | poolio | brlcad: alright, so drupal is installed in the my.brlcad.org VHOST, do I have to ..reinstall it in mine? |
| 18:37.16 | brlcad | IriX64: that's an empty pastebin |
| 18:37.23 | poolio | and does the VHOST go to my ~/public_html? |
| 18:37.32 | IriX64 | whup, just a sec |
| 18:38.05 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/dT8MFf21.html |
| 18:38.08 | IriX64 | there |
| 18:38.09 | brlcad | poolio: no, it doesn't -- you still have your ~poolio home if needed on any of the names (poolio.org/~poolio should respond for example) |
| 18:38.26 | brlcad | it's in a different location |
| 18:38.36 | louipc | it should go to wherever your ip port 80 points to huh? |
| 18:40.20 | brlcad | yep |
| 18:40.57 | brlcad | IriX64: i've got no idea how you got yourself into that situation |
| 18:41.13 | IriX64 | mmm i'll try --disable-shared |
| 18:41.13 | brlcad | obviously got a full path in there that should not be there |
| 18:41.26 | brlcad | could just be an unclean build |
| 18:41.38 | IriX64 | thanks will tinker some. |
| 18:41.41 | brlcad | try "make distclean" |
| 18:41.46 | IriX64 | right |
| 18:41.52 | brlcad | then rerun autogen.sh |
| 18:42.02 | IriX64 | doing it now |
| 18:44.43 | IriX64 | back to dos work, I'm gonna make this thing run doom yet :) |
| 18:45.44 | louipc | sweet |
| 18:45.45 | brlcad | inside mged? :) |
| 18:45.54 | IriX64 | heh in tcl ;) |
| 18:46.06 | louipc | I tried to run the original ultima it was crazy |
| 18:46.26 | louipc | everything was sped up 10x |
| 18:46.30 | IriX64 | never tried ultima, have tried wing commander II though |
| 18:46.38 | IriX64 | same problem |
| 18:46.51 | IriX64 | but doom is speshul :) |
| 18:46.53 | louipc | there's something out there that will slow it down for you |
| 18:47.03 | IriX64 | yeah varislow, i have it |
| 18:47.15 | brlcad | poolio: also noticed that you have a CNAME record on "www.poolio.org" |
| 18:47.16 | louipc | I forget what it was... hmm is that open source? |
| 18:47.21 | brlcad | you should remove that or update it |
| 18:47.36 | IriX64 | which varislow, i think its public domain |
| 18:47.46 | louipc | ah cool |
| 18:48.07 | IriX64 | all i have is the binary, no idea where the source is |
| 18:49.01 | IriX64 | wcII no speech though something wonky in the sound linkage |
| 18:49.31 | poolio | brlcad: cname points to poolio.org |
| 18:50.37 | brlcad | mmm. Ultima V |
| 18:51.16 | brlcad | poolio: ah, my bad -- i was reading something else |
| 18:51.26 | brlcad | compounded by a stale dns ip result |
| 18:52.26 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, it's still not updated, i forgot to fix mail.poolio.org, but it doesn't really matter, don't use it anyway |
| 18:53.11 | IriX64 | louipc: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/doom.png <-- that soundblaster not responding is bogus, ive got sound |
| 18:56.00 | IriX64 | can't show you a shot of it actually running the demo, silly thing insists on full screen |
| 18:58.13 | IriX64 | wcii the same insists on full screen |
| 18:59.12 | IriX64 | wonder if i can jury rig soemthing to capture the vga screen to disk... |
| 18:59.29 | IriX64 | back burner material |
| 19:13.00 | IriX64 | heh forgot to light that burner ;) |
| 19:23.14 | IriX64 | back to fun stuff, make install is running in a ntvdm window. |
| 19:23.51 | IriX64 | heh wonder if we can call this a windows compiler now :) |
| 19:28.05 | IriX64 | blah, never mind its buggered again, time to rethink sections of this cyall l8r. |
| 20:10.33 | poolio | brlcad: is there any way to view the page as someone not logged in would in drupal? getting sick of logging out |
| 20:59.16 | louipc | poolio: depends on your browser I guess |
| 20:59.46 | louipc | you could start a new browser instance, rather than a new window so it has separate cookies etc... |
| 21:01.31 | louipc | That might be it if you use Firefox: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile |
| 21:15.29 | ``Erik | for that reason, and others |
| 21:15.30 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:17.04 | ``Erik | pheer, 'devrys' is hocking a psuedo-degree in video game development |
| 21:17.27 | louipc | haha |
| 21:19.21 | louipc | I called it the 'deliriously expensive vessel for retarded youngins' |
| 21:19.42 | ``Erik | hehehe sounds about right |
| 21:19.48 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 21:20.00 | ``Erik | these 'get your degree in 3 weeks' outfits are all over the place :( |
| 21:20.17 | ``Erik | <-- has an omfg 4y degree that is omfg csab accredited |
| 21:20.33 | ``Erik | part of me feels that it was too little training |
| 21:20.51 | ``Erik | not 'nuff time for even the brightest O.o I might go back for a doctorate in cs |
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| 02:24.10 | poolio | louipc: ah yeah, forgot about that, thanks |
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| 11:53.27 | thing0 | hey |
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| 13:14.08 | Maloeran | Hey, I haven't been around for some time. I'm trying to convert the Stanford .ply models to .g through ply-g but it gives me "This PLY file appears to contain no geometry!!!". Yet, with -v, it claims to find the vertices and indices. Any thoughts? |
| 13:14.58 | Maloeran | Before I try to fix it or write my own converter, I'm just wondering if it could be a known glitch |
| 13:45.29 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 14:50.52 | Maloeran | Nevermind, got it |
| 15:09.28 | brlcad | what was it? |
| 15:09.43 | brlcad | and howdy Maloeran |
| 15:10.42 | Maloeran | I was trying to convert the .ply point files, not the reconstructed triangle geometry :) |
| 15:11.10 | Maloeran | I'm fine, cleaning up Rayforce a bit which Mark wants to present at Siggraph. Will you guys be there? |
| 15:11.24 | brlcad | yeah |
| 15:12.17 | brlcad | so you're presenting it at siggraph? a paper, a sketch, a poster? |
| 15:12.39 | Maloeran | None of the above, Mark reserved a... booth, but I'm not too sure how that works |
| 15:12.59 | brlcad | oh, heh .. interesting |
| 15:13.09 | Maloeran | Just to present the software I guess, but I wonder if it's a whole day thing, or if I'll have time to wander around |
| 15:13.21 | brlcad | sounds like it might be on the expo floor then |
| 15:14.00 | brlcad | so are you attending, or just going for a day or two or? |
| 15:14.14 | brlcad | do you know which day? |
| 15:14.37 | Maloeran | I'm attending for the whole week, I just hope I won't have to stay at that booth thing for the whole time :) |
| 15:14.51 | brlcad | ah, okay, cool |
| 15:15.00 | Maloeran | I'll be bringing my desktop to run the demos on |
| 15:15.08 | brlcad | you went last year iirc, yes? |
| 15:15.39 | Maloeran | I didn't, I only went to the Interactive Raytracing and the other one about Visualization with you guys |
| 15:16.14 | brlcad | oh, wow.. so this will be your first siggraph then? that should be fun |
| 15:16.30 | Maloeran | So far, I didn't find these social gatherings very appealing |
| 15:16.41 | louipc | you need more booze |
| 15:16.55 | Maloeran | Verbal communication is great for the interactivity aspect, but I would rather read papers than listen to presentations |
| 15:18.26 | Maloeran | Should I understand that Siggraph is generally more interesting than the conferences we went to at Salt Lake City and Baltimore? |
| 15:18.26 | brlcad | to each their own, though siggraph is a bit different than rt07 and vis |
| 15:18.42 | brlcad | siggraph is *huge* in comparison |
| 15:19.18 | brlcad | way more variety, way more of everything (technical and non-technical, art and scientific, etc) |
| 15:19.36 | Maloeran | Ah, sounds good |
| 15:20.06 | brlcad | generally very beautiful and interesting to attend |
| 15:20.56 | brlcad | so is mark attending too? |
| 15:21.22 | Maloeran | Yes, and he's bringing his whole family! :) And, similarly, I'll bring my desktop |
| 15:21.38 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:21.50 | brlcad | well that should be interesting |
| 15:22.47 | Maloeran | Is Erik coming as well? Lee, Justin? |
| 15:23.03 | brlcad | that you know of, only myself and lee |
| 15:23.18 | Maloeran | Ah, okay |
| 15:24.04 | brlcad | any other guys going from your group? |
| 15:24.39 | Maloeran | Hum, not that I'm aware of |
| 15:25.22 | brlcad | bob or keith would be the only candidates that come to mind |
| 15:25.41 | brlcad | but then never know what mark is up to sometimes :) |
| 15:26.07 | brlcad | so what have you been up to? you sorta disappeared |
| 15:26.17 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 15:26.51 | Maloeran | Ah yes, I think I unconsciously stopped the ritual of attaching irc clients, it was way too time consuming |
| 15:27.19 | Maloeran | I used to help people for 1-3 hours daily on Efnet *shivers*. I have been busy with computational fluid dynamics mostly, it's very interesting, amazingly challenging |
| 15:27.47 | brlcad | cfd work eh .. any pictures to show? :) |
| 15:28.49 | Maloeran | None yet, but I'm really close to that. |
| 15:29.34 | Maloeran | I spent about 2 months just learning the physics involved ; viscosity, turbulence, speed of sound... They want me to rewrite some horrible 50k lines Fortran code |
| 15:30.00 | Maloeran | It's not just horrible, it's plain wrong ( no conservation of momentum, etc. ) |
| 15:30.06 | brlcad | and of course knowing you, you're almost done then :) |
| 15:30.25 | Maloeran | Eh well, not exactly :), mostly because I'm aiming very high |
| 15:30.50 | Maloeran | They didn't even have conservation of momentum... and I want to give them shockwaves, blasts, turbulence, viscosity |
| 15:31.02 | brlcad | so what's to come of rayforce then? I imagine this demo at siggraph is mark's way to try and market it |
| 15:31.36 | brlcad | or is rayforce development coming to an end as you move into cfd? |
| 15:31.40 | Maloeran | I took a long break, I was saturated of Raytracing, I think I was beginning to feel physical pain when I tried to force me to work on it near the end |
| 15:31.51 | brlcad | yeah, I got that |
| 15:32.08 | brlcad | i mean that was noticeably visible even over irc that you were burning out |
| 15:32.41 | Maloeran | Ah, quite true... Survice doesn't know that, but the first few months, I think I was doing nothing but work. I mean 60-80 hours a week |
| 15:33.01 | Maloeran | Anyhow, regarding Rayforce, Mark has plans to integrate it into their software, Archer's successor, and see if there's commerical potential |
| 15:34.08 | brlcad | interesting |
| 15:35.01 | brlcad | but then I think that for most code that's not got an analysis association |
| 15:35.56 | Maloeran | It's not really mainstream software, being open-source is not that... critical, if I may say. Besides, I'll certainly never allow the patents to get in the way of open-source developers |
| 15:36.38 | Maloeran | ( Mark registered patents to my name on the techniques ) |
| 15:37.35 | brlcad | doesn't have to be mainstream to be intersting and useful :) |
| 15:37.50 | brlcad | information wants to be free :) |
| 15:38.31 | Maloeran | :) Oh, I agree. It may well end up open-source, I think Mark just wants to see if there's commercial potential at Siggraph |
| 15:38.46 | brlcad | yeah, I got that much :) |
| 15:39.55 | Maloeran | I have doubts myself, I don't think it performs that much better ( if at all better ) to Reschetov's latest code, or whoever else's. I haven't followed raytracing papers |
| 15:39.57 | brlcad | he's unfortunately not got the demo connections to throw around at siggraph (I think) in order to make that happen |
| 15:40.28 | Maloeran | He spoke of Dreamworks and some other group that are supposed to come by the booth |
| 15:40.39 | brlcad | well he'll undoubtedly be at siggraph, you can just ask Reschetov :) |
| 15:41.08 | Maloeran | Good point :) |
| 15:43.12 | Maloeran | I'm surprised the Stanford models appear actually more costly to render than CAD geometry |
| 15:43.42 | Maloeran | Only 30M rays/sec on that 70k triangles bunny, one third of the 140k triangles M1 |
| 15:44.04 | brlcad | they're mostly scan conversions, pathologically dense triangle surface sets |
| 15:44.42 | brlcad | interesting models, but far from representative of anything other than scan-conversion geometry |
| 15:44.47 | Maloeran | *nods* I thought this would produce good graphs since there are no long thin triangles, I guess that was wrong |
| 15:47.03 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:47.12 | Maloeran | On a completely different topic, is it safe enough to carry computer cases by plane? I would bring the hard drives with me |
| 15:47.32 | poolio | mornin |
| 15:47.34 | brlcad | safe enough? |
| 15:47.44 | brlcad | don't see why not |
| 15:47.55 | brlcad | i'll be taking my laptop and working on the plane |
| 15:47.57 | Maloeran | Regarding damage to components from being thrown around, and I wouldn't want anyone at the luggage collection to just pick up the 3K$ case |
| 15:48.18 | brlcad | oh, you mean like a desktop |
| 15:48.19 | Maloeran | A laptop is different, you carry it with you ;) |
| 15:48.21 | Maloeran | Yes |
| 15:48.26 | brlcad | eek |
| 15:48.31 | brlcad | good question |
| 15:48.32 | Maloeran | A big and heavy desktop computer case |
| 15:48.37 | poolio | where you guys headed? |
| 15:48.56 | brlcad | poolio: siggraph in san diego |
| 15:49.01 | poolio | hehe, enjoy |
| 15:49.04 | poolio | when is that? |
| 15:49.10 | brlcad | in about two weeks |
| 15:50.08 | Maloeran | Any thoughts about carrying a case, brlcad? Or I could somehow ship it, but I'm not sure that's really better |
| 15:50.11 | brlcad | Maloeran: I'd be rather uncomfortable sending a machine that way, I'd probably ship it |
| 15:51.12 | brlcad | going to cost probably 50-100 to ship it each way, depending on the weight |
| 15:51.22 | Maloeran | I still have the case's cardboard box and styrofoam, but it's clearly a box for a large computer case |
| 15:51.55 | brlcad | well that's great then .. can put it in that box and take it to some place like dhl |
| 15:52.31 | poolio | brlcad: are you doing a presentation at siggraph? |
| 15:52.38 | brlcad | poolio: not this year |
| 15:52.39 | Maloeran | So you would recommend this over bringing it as luggage |
| 15:52.51 | brlcad | yeah, there is zero guarantee with luggage |
| 15:53.07 | brlcad | it might come out fine, it might be destroyed |
| 15:53.21 | poolio | Maloeran: just buy a sweet ass laptop like brlcad :) |
| 15:53.33 | brlcad | it'd be a gamble, with the dice being thrown by someone that makes $10/hr |
| 15:53.43 | Maloeran | I don't think there are 8 cores Clovertown laptops around here :) |
| 15:54.10 | Maloeran | I see. Well, with the hard drives out... I don't know how resistant to shocks that stuff is |
| 15:54.29 | poolio | Maloeran: geez. not fair. gimme one |
| 15:55.00 | poolio | there's no chance you could borrow/rent/use someone elses nice desktop? |
| 15:55.36 | Maloeran | It's more like a high-end server machine than a desktop |
| 15:55.42 | brlcad | Maloeran: put it inside your luggage and then imagine throwing it outside a second-story building -- would you be comfortable with that? |
| 15:55.52 | brlcad | that's a perfectly viable scenario that can happen |
| 15:56.09 | Maloeran | Ouch, ouch. |
| 15:56.29 | Maloeran | Okay, looking into DHL |
| 15:57.55 | brlcad | it (should be) survice's dime, so it shouldn't matter .. better to just be safe, otherwise there is no demo |
| 15:58.33 | brlcad | that 100 or so is dwarfed by how much it's costing to send two guys |
| 15:59.19 | Maloeran | Right. If I ship it, that would free my hands to bring a bicycle too ; my hotel is 7 miles away |
| 15:59.33 | brlcad | ouch |
| 15:59.50 | brlcad | it's on the trolly route I hope? |
| 16:00.09 | brlcad | is it a siggraph hotel? |
| 16:00.34 | Maloeran | I think so, it was reserved indirectly from their site |
| 16:01.22 | brlcad | the sheraton? |
| 16:01.44 | Maloeran | Checking... |
| 16:01.51 | brlcad | you might be in the same building as three other guys |
| 16:01.55 | Maloeran | HILTON SAN DIEGO MISSION VALLEY |
| 16:01.59 | brlcad | ahh |
| 16:02.20 | brlcad | at least it's a little better |
| 16:02.55 | brlcad | hopefully has internet, though you can generally hang out at the convention center until late on the wifi |
| 16:03.06 | Maloeran | Do you know if there's some kind of shuttle service for all siggraph hotels? |
| 16:03.20 | brlcad | there is shuttle service if it's a siggraph hotel |
| 16:03.30 | Maloeran | Oh hum :), I actually gave my laptop to a friend who was leaving for Japan for 2 years, I was very rarely using it |
| 16:04.18 | Maloeran | In a way, that's also why I'm bringing my desktop |
| 16:05.32 | Maloeran | Well, it looks like I won't be able to raytrace a 28 million triangles model, malloc() refuses to cooperate |
| 16:06.17 | brlcad | strap the desktop to your back, a UPS to your chest, and you're good to go! |
| 16:07.10 | brlcad | Twingy was gonna do that one year with an O2 *ahem*, that woulda been fscking awesome :) |
| 16:07.18 | Maloeran | Woohoo! And a bicycle of course, how else would a bring such a heavy E-ATX case? |
| 16:07.25 | Maloeran | Hum :) |
| 16:08.17 | Maloeran | Do you have any intelligent normal smoothing code somewhere in BRL-CAD? |
| 16:09.05 | Maloeran | Something that considers angles between triangles, angles between facet vectors, to smooth and spawn new vertices when appropriate |
| 16:10.19 | Maloeran | I wrote something a long time ago but it's brute force, it isn't meant for models of million triangles |
| 16:10.22 | brlcad | rt_bot_smooth() |
| 16:10.33 | brlcad | not sure how "intelligent" it is, but there is a routine for it |
| 16:10.53 | Maloeran | Do you know if it will create new vertices rather than smoothing when appropriate? |
| 16:10.56 | brlcad | it's in src/librt/g_bot.c at the end |
| 16:11.49 | brlcad | no, it isn't going to create more vertices iirc |
| 16:12.05 | brlcad | it just smooths the ones you have |
| 16:12.19 | Maloeran | Right, it's a bit too primitive. It would create rather horrible results on a cube for example |
| 16:12.31 | brlcad | basically: |
| 16:12.32 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.35 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.39 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.41 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:12.54 | brlcad | because siggraph says miles :) |
| 16:13.03 | ``Erik | ah |
| 16:13.08 | ``Erik | 7mi ~= 10km |
| 16:13.08 | Maloeran | Eheh Erik, the website said the hotel was 7 miles away. I have no idea what's that in km |
| 16:13.24 | ``Erik | .62 miles = 1km |
| 16:13.38 | Maloeran | Right, it's a long walk, or a tiring run |
| 16:13.39 | brlcad | ibot: convert 7 miles to kilometers |
| 16:13.57 | ``Erik | aboot ten, eh? |
| 16:14.20 | ``Erik | is that hooked into the 'units' program? |
| 16:14.30 | brlcad | beats me |
| 16:14.35 | brlcad | have to look at blootbot's source |
| 16:14.47 | brlcad | but probably |
| 16:15.42 | ``Erik | something not addressed by most unit conversion packages... a bit trickier than the 0 base ones, but quite doable :( |
| 16:16.03 | Maloeran | Erik, may I ask what's the official reason you aren't going to Siggraph this year? Since Sean and others are going |
| 16:16.04 | ``Erik | if nothing else, grok kelvin vs C, and rankines vs F... ... |
| 16:16.20 | ``Erik | because I'm not "special", and it's written into seans contract? |
| 16:16.38 | ``Erik | I was on the initial list, but my bosses bosses bosses bosses bosses boss said "only 3 gov't people go" |
| 16:16.44 | ``Erik | and I wasn't on that omfg list |
| 16:17.28 | ``Erik | it's stupid, and one of the reasons I'm about ready to step back into the civil sector. |
| 16:18.44 | Maloeran | Survice looks like a nice place from what I have seen, there are some challenging problems to solve |
| 16:19.09 | Maloeran | They basically let me pick what I wanted to work on, and CFD looked fun :) |
| 16:19.13 | ``Erik | there're always challenging problems, but I'm kinda lookng at going back to the midwest, I can afford a ferakin' mansion out there |
| 16:19.58 | ``Erik | I have an offer for a very comfortable job there that pays the same as what I make now... "choose your own hours, work from home" etc |
| 16:19.59 | ``Erik | .. |
| 16:20.09 | ``Erik | I need to figure out where I'm going *sigh* |
| 16:20.51 | ``Erik | I half suspect that if I land a decent job and regain the joy of coding, I'll be able to do more for brlcad than where I'm at now :/ |
| 16:21.25 | Maloeran | Are there any hopes of change within the ARL if you let managers know your dissatisfaction? |
| 16:21.38 | ``Erik | <-- has a strong urge to link brlcad to the gaming group |
| 16:21.39 | Maloeran | I can understand that :/ |
| 16:22.02 | ``Erik | um, I've let several layers of mgmt know my discontent in no uncertain terms several times |
| 16:22.05 | Maloeran | Brlcad, gaming? These two concepts don't appear to mix too well |
| 16:22.19 | ``Erik | brlcad to generate the game models and maps, :) |
| 16:22.39 | Maloeran | And there's no effort to move you around internally where you would be happier? |
| 16:22.42 | ``Erik | they'll put all sorts of insane pressure on mr brlcad to make it a user friendly modeling package, and mebbehe can sell it |
| 16:22.56 | ``Erik | there is effort to accept me... there is resistance to release me |
| 16:23.25 | ``Erik | so on tuesday, I need to do the "I'm leaving, pick where I go, arl or outside" speach |
| 16:23.51 | Maloeran | Well, there's good people at Survice if you want to look that way. Mark is the opposite of the pointy haired manager stereotype |
| 16:24.32 | brlcad | and have been for years, that's why it's priority #1 and pretty much all of the work going on even now has been towards solving that problem :) |
| 16:24.39 | ``Erik | meh, if I escape gov't life, it'll be in a big way, I surpect |
| 16:25.05 | ``Erik | hehehe, if game devers get into it, mebbe they'd throw their towel in teh ring and support it, other than bitching :) |
| 16:25.28 | ``Erik | <-- thinks the biggest os boon would be to get serious attention from the videogame wannabees... |
| 16:25.53 | ``Erik | and I like to imagine that I'm not too terribly wrong too terribly often |
| 16:26.00 | brlcad | log cabin in the middle of nowhere with an OC128 |
| 16:26.52 | poolio | brlcad: poolio.org is up, thanks again |
| 16:27.39 | brlcad | no problemo, nifty |
| 16:28.47 | brlcad | which is what I've been doing all weekend so far |
| 16:28.48 | poolio | brlcad: oh weird, it doesn't work for me, i get a blank page? what....? it worked fine last night :\ |
| 16:28.49 | brlcad | good stuff |
| 16:29.37 | brlcad | poolio: it's working just fine here |
| 16:29.47 | brlcad | maybe browser cache junk |
| 16:29.55 | poolio | yeah appears to be |
| 16:30.45 | Maloeran | Mmhm, gamedev. I had a strange urge to create a warcraft 3 map about two months ago ; I spent about 10 days sleeping only once every 2 days, that was... peculiar |
| 16:31.00 | Maloeran | Their scripting language is actually very complete |
| 16:31.43 | ``Erik | 'world of warcraft' seems to use lua |
| 16:31.59 | ``Erik | I've also been acutely interested in 'bos' and 'danger from the deep' |
| 16:32.14 | ``Erik | both have freendoe channels that I lurk... #bos and #dangerdeep :) |
| 16:32.28 | ``Erik | getting mac builds of either is... highly interesting, as they both use scons |
| 16:32.29 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 16:32.35 | Maloeran | I haven't heard of these. I just wanted to create a good, deep and long multiplayer campaign map |
| 16:33.04 | brlcad | http://spring.clan-sy.com/ |
| 16:33.08 | ``Erik | dangerdeep is a semi-realistic ww2 sub sim, bos is kinda like a starcrafty clone |
| 16:34.03 | Maloeran | Never heard of scons, and I mostly broke your autoconf stuff in Rayforce once again :). For some reason, it's compiling the same files 5 times, once for each binary |
| 16:34.31 | ``Erik | 'scons' is a python make imitation, from people who don't understand portability trying to outdo autoconfs portability... |
| 16:34.32 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 16:34.41 | ``Erik | it's a flaming piece of crap, imho. |
| 16:35.00 | ``Erik | um, you must've used name prefixes |
| 16:35.23 | Maloeran | I get .o files such as rfdemo-img.o, rfmaster-img.o, etc. for the img.c file |
| 16:35.43 | brlcad | ah, you set FLAGS |
| 16:36.06 | Maloeran | Ah yes, I set CFLAGS |
| 16:36.08 | brlcad | since the cppflags/cflags can cause different compilation results |
| 16:36.33 | Maloeran | I see, good point. Though, in this case, it doesn't actually matter |
| 16:36.36 | brlcad | e.g. make CFLAGS="-DBEHAVE_DIFFERENT_FOR_RFDEMO" |
| 16:37.20 | brlcad | set AM_CFLAGS instead of it should be global and the multicomp should go away iirc |
| 16:37.36 | brlcad | s/of/if/ |
| 16:37.51 | Maloeran | Thanks, I'll try that |
| 16:38.39 | brlcad | it's the rfdemo_CFLAGS that will usually cause the prefixed compilation results |
| 16:39.49 | Maloeran | *nods* It works. I mostly broke Erik's autoconf stuff when I thrown SDL away to use X11 directly so I can do proper and efficient frame buffering |
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| 16:40.52 | Maloeran | Do you know if X on OSX and other platforms have the Xxf86vm extensions? |
| 16:42.07 | brlcad | I believe OS X has that, but should probably test for it in configure regardless |
| 16:42.13 | brlcad | i think mplayer has a test for that |
| 16:42.43 | Maloeran | configure is still testing for SDL at the moment, but I'll attempt to correct that |
| 16:43.13 | ``Erik | what's so terribly wrong with sdl? O.o |
| 16:43.44 | ``Erik | it's been used to make sprite based games that run over 60fps on very low end hw |
| 16:43.48 | Maloeran | It's impossible to render multiple frames simultaneously without having to copy the whole data *twice* to get it visible |
| 16:43.59 | Maloeran | Yes yes, it's all good as long as you render just one frame at a time |
| 16:44.28 | ``Erik | hum, I thought there was a flag to set for 'direct' drawing, so double-buffering would be completely under developer control |
| 16:45.19 | Maloeran | I dig far in the code, I even put out a quick patch to implement multiple frame buffers but the SDL developers weren't interested |
| 16:45.41 | Maloeran | Because "Most people don't need that" and because "'S' stands for Simple" |
| 16:45.59 | ``Erik | hum, did they say why? |
| 16:46.25 | brlcad | reasonable test for Xxf86vm in http://profile.iiita.ac.in/smajumdar_00/xine/xine-ui-0.9.21/configure.ac |
| 16:46.46 | Maloeran | I can imagine that most people only render one frame at a time, it's understandable, but that's not acceptable in my case |
| 16:46.53 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad |
| 16:47.16 | ``Erik | I would imagine that if it ere argued coherently, sammy woulda picked it up :/ |
| 16:47.29 | ``Erik | he seems to be reasonable |
| 16:47.56 | Maloeran | I don't think I had chatted with the lead programmer, just one of his minion |
| 16:48.36 | brlcad | minion's are useless for getting core changes |
| 16:48.47 | ``Erik | sam langtingua or whatever, that's the homey to talk to |
| 16:48.52 | ``Erik | he watches the mailing list |
| 16:49.29 | Maloeran | Before I wrote the code for it, I posted on the mailing list to ask for thoughts on the idea, the feature was "unlikely" to be implemented |
| 16:49.49 | ``Erik | lame |
| 16:49.56 | Maloeran | It required changes for every platform and I only did the X11 one, so I can understand why they were reluctant |
| 16:50.06 | Maloeran | But anyway, things are working nicely using X11 directly |
| 16:50.21 | ``Erik | nothing wrong with straight x11 if you're *nix only |
| 16:50.22 | ``Erik | :) |
| 16:50.30 | Maloeran | Exactly :) |
| 16:51.05 | ``Erik | <-- has a couple striaght x11 programs in his devel/ tree |
| 16:52.02 | Maloeran | *nods* So do I |
| 16:52.23 | Maloeran | The documentation on the API and extensions is sometimes lacking, I found that a bit annoying |
| 16:52.52 | ``Erik | <-- may be a weirdo, but truely enjoys saurkraut as a hot dog topping |
| 16:53.11 | Maloeran | "This parameter is... a mask flag! And we'll let you guess the rest, what it's for and what values it can take." |
| 16:53.24 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 16:56.31 | Maloeran | What could make AM_CFLAGS be ignored in a Makefile.am? Suddently, it's not added to the compilation lines anymore |
| 16:58.00 | Maloeran | Ah nevermind, it's only automatic if no specific CFLAGS are specified for a binary. Got it |
| 16:59.09 | brlcad | yeah, per-binary overrrides, you'd have to say you wanted them if you override like rfdemo_CFLAGS="${AM_CFLAGS} -O1000 -DYUM" |
| 16:59.31 | Maloeran | *nods* Thank you |
| 17:13.46 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177878662.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:17.38 | IriX64 | errors everywhere and make keeps on trucking (my new and improved -i(gnore) switch works beautifullu) |
| 17:17.59 | IriX64 | -u+y |
| 17:19.50 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/Lm7x7L15.html < ---- see |
| 17:21.07 | poolio | I think there's a reasons errors cause aborting |
| 17:21.33 | IriX64 | there is but sometimes you know (ill fix it later type of thing) |
| 17:22.02 | IriX64 | why let one bit of the project keep you from testing the rest |
| 17:22.39 | poolio | well if the entire rest of the project depends on that part... |
| 17:22.46 | poolio | IriX64: also, got my website up and running: poolio.org |
| 17:22.56 | IriX64 | agreed then your hornswoggled |
| 17:23.07 | IriX64 | http://poolio.org? |
| 17:23.55 | poolio | jah |
| 17:24.45 | IriX64 | hahah nice site (jokingly says needs fleshing out ) ducking and running :) |
| 17:25.11 | poolio | it's minimal. not designed to be pretty or fleshed out. no need. |
| 17:25.17 | IriX64 | better than mine |
| 17:26.03 | poolio | never seen yours ;) |
| 17:26.32 | IriX64 | heh yah you have its just got some files on it (supposed to put a page up but i'm lazy) |
| 17:27.50 | IriX64 | maybe i'll re-install staroffice and design a page |
| 17:28.21 | IriX64 | 64bit staroffice? /me muses |
| 17:31.28 | IriX64 | that disk crash did me good, I've never had so much fun putting things back where they're sposed to be, I'm about 50%recovered |
| 17:32.08 | Maloeran | You should install Gentoo, you'll have a lot of fun constantly fixing stuff |
| 17:33.36 | IriX64 | heh i'm busy enough as it is |
| 17:34.14 | poolio | busy enough fixing windows constantly :) |
| 17:34.24 | Maloeran | Recently, I just installed some package for a library, and... PAM broke with "Module not found" so it was impossible to log in, then fsck.ext3 had disappeared so it didn't want to mount the root partition, and a couple other pleasant discoveries |
| 17:34.47 | poolio | livecd to the rescue? |
| 17:35.00 | Maloeran | Installing that package just "removed" many critical pieces, even thought Portage still believed they were installed |
| 17:35.16 | Maloeran | Ah, I fixed things manually, I know Linux enough by now :) |
| 17:35.26 | Maloeran | even though* |
| 17:35.30 | poolio | hmm, just switched over to debian from gentoo. really like it so far. apt-get upgrade is around 30x faster than emerge -u world |
| 17:37.24 | Maloeran | I prefer to do things manually to a great extend, but there's something wrong when installing a library removes many chunks of critical software everywhere |
| 17:37.53 | poolio | not the Gentoo Penguin? |
| 17:38.07 | Maloeran | The Gentoo mascot is a cow, is it not? Or it used to be |
| 17:38.26 | poolio | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_penguin |
| 17:38.46 | poolio | http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml |
| 17:38.48 | poolio | I think you're right |
| 17:38.55 | poolio | named after a penguin, but their mascot is a cow, hmm. |
| 17:39.14 | IriX64 | my mascot is #undef ;) |
| 17:50.07 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/0cqq9B36.html are you interested in this? it's tedit in mged |
| 17:53.08 | IriX64 | never mind its that wgl stuff |
| 17:53.22 | brlcad | IriX64: no, i'm not interestd in that :) |
| 17:53.30 | IriX64 | thought so :) |
| 17:53.40 | brlcad | as it's a random error after you've provoked the build way too many times to get that far to be useful |
| 17:54.01 | IriX64 | heh come its semi-useful :) |
| 17:55.50 | IriX64 | provoked the build ... interesting is that why it's biting my hand off ;) |
| 17:57.34 | IriX64 | btw i'm just exploring, and theres quite a bit of wgl stuff, dm_xvars.h and dm_wgl.h have issues |
| 17:59.02 | brlcad | of course they do |
| 17:59.16 | brlcad | it all stems from your configure tests not working as they are expected to |
| 17:59.24 | brlcad | that has been the problem from the beginning |
| 17:59.34 | brlcad | for months and months, it hasn't changed |
| 17:59.36 | IriX64 | well I told you my system was strange |
| 17:59.57 | brlcad | it doesn't matter if it's strange of now, it's just configure tests |
| 18:00.08 | IriX64 | you indicated you wouldn/t mind me pasting the errors as they might prove usefull |
| 18:00.10 | brlcad | the tests aren't doing what's expected, and until they do, this will be the case |
| 18:00.33 | brlcad | i also said it entirely depends on how you get those errors |
| 18:00.41 | brlcad | random errors are not useful |
| 18:00.58 | brlcad | methodical ones done in progress can be if it's isolatable |
| 18:01.21 | IriX64 | btw that tree still awairts you |
| 18:01.25 | IriX64 | awaits too |
| 18:01.26 | brlcad | if you edit *anything* that you've not been asked to edit, then it's a random error |
| 18:01.46 | brlcad | if it's an error after *any* previous error, then it's effectively a random error |
| 18:01.47 | IriX64 | good now we're clear |
| 18:02.08 | brlcad | we've been "clear" a couple dozen times :) |
| 18:02.26 | IriX64 | heh i know but at the very least its comic releif no:) |
| 18:02.35 | Maloeran | Practice makes perfect! |
| 18:02.49 | IriX64 | ill keep practicing |
| 18:03.32 | IriX64 | thanks for letting me hang out is what i'm trying to say here. |
| 18:04.33 | brlcad | you could be so much more productive on brl-cad if you simply wanted to be, and gave yourself credit when it was due for effort you do put in that helps |
| 18:05.38 | brlcad | if your build environment were working, you'd probably be a great regression tester :) |
| 18:05.46 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/OheeIZ16.html <--- thanks, this is more fun, make did it i really don't think itll run that was supposed to be a mingw32 build :) |
| 18:06.42 | brlcad | i think you might have missed about four periods there :) |
| 18:07.16 | IriX64 | heh |
| 18:09.22 | IriX64 | looking for the jove.exe, it's not there i wonder why :) |
| 18:11.18 | Maloeran | Yay, typical. SSE3 added wonderful instructions such as haddps for horizontal adding... except that it's slower than the sequence movaps,shufps,addps which produces the same result |
| 18:12.36 | IriX64 | you using a dissasembler Maloeran? |
| 18:14.26 | Maloeran | No, trying to optimize some code |
| 18:19.41 | IriX64 | by hand? kudos |
| 18:21.15 | IriX64 | which processor, may I ask? |
| 18:21.26 | Maloeran | Yes although I'm mostly trying to get GCC to produce good code from C instead. As always, it's not going too well, GCC is rather stupid regarding register allocation and memory aliasing |
| 18:21.29 | Maloeran | Xeon Clovertown |
| 18:22.10 | IriX64 | 16? or 8? |
| 18:22.46 | Maloeran | Hum, I don't understand the question |
| 18:22.53 | IriX64 | gcc? what version supports that? |
| 18:23.33 | Maloeran | Ah, I'm using gcc 4.1.2 but the mtune optimisation swich is -mtune=nocona, the same as Core 2 chips |
| 18:23.41 | IriX64 | doesn't matter im in over my head anyway :) |
| 18:24.26 | IriX64 | mine is a simple opteron |
| 18:24.54 | IriX64 | but im trying for global coverage instead of targetting one processor |
| 18:27.24 | IriX64 | although -march=opteron -mtune=opteron works here |
| 18:27.31 | IriX64 | err = |
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| 21:02.13 | louipc | What's a good way to describe BRL-CAD as powerful without actually using the word? It seems too many packages use that magic word. |
| 21:02.56 | ``Erik | 'big hairy balls' |
| 21:03.21 | ``Erik | it has over 400 specialty tools built on it *shrug* |
| 21:03.35 | louipc | comprehensive? hah |
| 21:03.53 | louipc | hmm |
| 21:05.31 | louipc | extensive! |
| 21:20.47 | ``Erik | *shrug* throw the #'s out? 30 years in the making, over 400 binaries, ... *shrug* |
| 21:38.49 | louipc | that might work |
| 21:41.01 | ``Erik | is it just me, or is mia kirshner totally rompable? O.o |
| 21:41.37 | louipc | oh yeah |
| 21:42.49 | ``Erik | 'not another teen movie' is on comedy central... |
| 21:43.00 | louipc | heheh |
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| 02:44.44 | IriX64 | set \=/ doesn't cut it :) |
| 02:46.44 | IriX64 | ideas, raspberries, anything at all :) |
| 02:50.33 | thing0 | umm |
| 02:50.35 | thing0 | no idea |
| 02:50.37 | thing0 | ;P |
| 02:51.13 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:55.14 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/1024.png |
| 02:55.21 | IriX64 | incoming :) |
| 02:56.17 | IriX64 | frame buffer? frame buffer? that's not a frame buffer. now *that's a frame buffer (shades of crocodile dundee:)) |
| 02:59.52 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/f66j4y13.html <--- still getting this though when I try to attach to X |
| 03:03.14 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/uQAosD65.html <-- there's the dump if you want it |
| 03:04.50 | thing0 | afk |
| 03:04.51 | thing0 | cya |
| 03:05.06 | *** part/#brlcad thingAWAY (n=ric@124-168-109-27.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
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| 06:22.20 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/tkZi4B77.html <--- i coerced the build to cough this lung cookie up too, you interested? |
| 06:23.57 | IriX64 | thank God for -Wl,-allow-multiple-definition ;) |
| 06:26.52 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8dpmxK32.html <--- see, I'll keep coercing the build, if anything interesting pops up ill pastebin it |
| 06:27.43 | brlcad | please don't -- if you coerce it, it's no longer interesting |
| 06:27.59 | IriX64 | I'll tickle it instead |
| 06:28.34 | IriX64 | cmon thats blatant |
| 06:28.36 | brlcad | do whatever you like with it, just don't trail the noise into here via pastebins of random issues |
| 06:28.47 | IriX64 | ok ok |
| 07:05.44 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jove.png and issues.png is what i get with a coereced build ;) |
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| 14:06.46 | poolio | brlcad: I'm working on mutation, and currently all the stuff is going to be completely hard-coded in. Is there any sort of routine where I can say function(rt_db_internal) and somehow iterate through every changeable value? |
| 14:07.22 | poolio | I guess the other option would be to just have a switch statement and then have a function pointer for each type of object, I was just wondering if something like that had been done before |
| 14:29.20 | brlcad | not sure what you mean by iterate through every changeable value |
| 14:30.29 | brlcad | there is already a table (rt_functab) that has function pointers to various functionality, though whether that's useful is another matter of course.. not sure what you're getting at :) |
| 14:31.45 | poolio | W |
| 14:31.45 | poolio | W|10:31| <@ brlcad> there is already a table (rt_functab) that has function pointers to various functionality, though whether that's useful is another matter of course.. not sure what you' |
| 14:31.49 | poolio | ah oops |
| 14:31.51 | poolio | sorry |
| 14:34.19 | poolio | brlcad: Well what I meant was like I need to be able to change every specific value for each shape. So currently I have it setup to test which shape it is, and then depending on what shape, it can change certain specific values specific to that shape. So I was wondering if there was a way to generalize the way I go about this, I currently hard code in say if(sphere){rand = rand()%num_variables_can_be_changed_in_sphere; mutate(rand);} |
| 14:34.40 | poolio | Is there a way I could have something like x = num_specific_vars(shape)? |
| 14:40.54 | brlcad | poolio: the closest you could probably do is work with the tcl string representation of the primitive but even then you need to know what the values mean |
| 14:41.08 | brlcad | you're still only going to support a limited set of primitives |
| 14:41.55 | brlcad | you wouldn't likely ever create a DSP terrain object, for example, nor want to know how to genericly specify one |
| 14:43.02 | brlcad | your idea of having a switch statement and then functions for each primitive type that beset understands is probably the best approach |
| 14:44.24 | dtidrow | http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202930159&adid=17051&dcaid=17051 - nice! |
| 14:47.18 | brlcad | very nice |
| 14:47.33 | Laniakea_ | ``Erik: emulation? |
| 14:48.07 | brlcad | Laniakea_: did that compilation problem ever get sorted out? |
| 14:49.09 | Laniakea_ | brlcad: no Erik said he has to try out OpenBSD emulated |
| 14:49.18 | brlcad | ah, ok |
| 14:49.26 | Laniakea_ | brlcad: we did about 2 steps in debugging and then it goot too complicated for remote debugging |
| 14:59.35 | poolio | dtidrow: I think I might buy that, I need an external. Is that recommended or are you just going off price? |
| 14:59.38 | poolio | brlcad: alright, I'llget on that |
| 15:00.08 | brlcad | poolio: I think it's just the price |
| 15:00.15 | brlcad | 200 for a TB is pretty sweet |
| 15:09.45 | dtidrow | yeah, that was just the lowest I've seen a 500GB external at |
| 15:10.01 | dtidrow | non-rebated price, that is |
| 15:10.32 | dtidrow | seen a few that were $100 post-rebate, but the real price was around $125-$130 |
| 15:58.47 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-109-27.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 16:19.08 | poolio | brlcad: hrm, I'm having some issues understanding the internal representation of the union tree and such. I see that if the leaf is OP_SOLID, it stores region and soltab data. If I modify the soltab, and write out the new union tree, is the soltab for the shape that was modified (in the node of the union tree) going to modify the shape which that nodes represents? |
| 16:22.16 | poolio | Or would I have to retrieve the internal object, and modify the idb_ptr, and write out the internal object? |
| 16:28.42 | brlcad | I believe you have to do the latter |
| 16:30.34 | brlcad | not 100% positive, but my vague recollection is that you have to write out objects one at a time, and writing out the tree basically amounts to writing out a bunch of combinations (and leaving the leaves alone) .. could be mistaken. feel free to either provide a routine in librt that does this, or let me know if the routine that writes out the tree does it already :) |
| 16:46.52 | poolio | yeah it's the latter |
| 16:48.54 | poolio | brlcad: I don't think the solid and region data is written out |
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| 17:08.29 | iday | ls -al |
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| 17:21.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I only have 11 minutes before my session runs out, is there anything that needs doing that is urgent? |
| 17:30.25 | MinuteElectron | g2g my internet session is over |
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| 18:00.37 | brlcad | ack |
| 18:00.49 | dtidrow | ack? |
| 18:00.50 | poolio | a bit late? |
| 18:00.53 | brlcad | yup |
| 18:01.03 | brlcad | needed him to enable my drupal account access |
| 18:02.02 | poolio | if you've got root access can't you just fudge with the files and get it yourself? |
| 18:02.19 | brlcad | of course |
| 18:02.29 | poolio | just more effort / not proper? |
| 18:02.53 | brlcad | not worth the effort/time, even if mildly trivial |
| 18:02.56 | brlcad | i can wait |
| 19:18.36 | Maloeran | From MinuteElectron, I'm curious to understand this concept of timed "internet sessions". I thought internet connectivity was eternal, as permanent as life itself. My believes are shaken |
| 19:20.06 | poolio | Ever been to an internet cafe? |
| 19:20.16 | poolio | :) |
| 19:27.56 | brlcad | Maloeran: maybe he runs his computer off of a UPS and is only able to charge it with a bicycle generator ;) |
| 19:29.47 | poolio | brlcad: hackaday? |
| 19:30.51 | poolio | brlcad: I've been tweaking the crossover/reporduction setup and it is still getting stuck on a sphere... |
| 19:32.41 | poolio | It's weird... like if I try to do any sort of scaling using the number of nodes in the tree it seems to always converge on a sphere |
| 19:33.07 | brlcad | sounds like a bug :) |
| 19:33.46 | poolio | dur :P |
| 19:34.40 | poolio | brlcad: I think the fitness value is being truncated somewhere, and all the fitness values are turning out the same, or something... I'm gonna keep digging, I had it working before I incorporated tree depth into the fitness equation |
| 19:35.10 | poolio | also, if I have the time I'd be curious to write some sort of plugin/routine for beset where you could specificy the fitness equation :) |
| 19:36.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:36.48 | brlcad | a gui would be more immediately useful than pluggable fitness equations so long as there are parameters for the pop size, mutation rates, crossover rates, etc |
| 19:36.59 | brlcad | but that would be kinda interesting, yeah :) |
| 19:37.27 | poolio | well, the issue is I need to fine tune the equation to make it work, like how much of a penalty for tree depth, how much |
| 19:37.30 | poolio | wait |
| 19:37.35 | poolio | I guess it's really just factoring in tree depth :P |
| 19:38.16 | poolio | It's also getting to the point where testing is a pain in the butt. Takes like a minute to run and a minute to generate the visualization |
| 19:38.34 | poolio | I run smaller tests, but I need to do moderately sized ones to really check stuff |
| 19:39.24 | brlcad | until you get two sphere's working, there's little point in working towards more ;) |
| 19:39.26 | poolio | and also, the GUI isn't useful if the backend is b0rked :) |
| 19:39.44 | poolio | brlcad: Well, the issue is I'm not sure whether to do mutation, I feel like crossover+reproduction should definitely work on the two spheres example |
| 19:39.46 | brlcad | or even matching arbitrary primitives (from a list) |
| 19:40.00 | brlcad | that would be my assertion as well |
| 19:40.17 | brlcad | I feel you should definitely be able to converge on two spheres |
| 19:40.22 | poolio | matching arbitrary primitives should already work, the issue is just spawning a population that is a good representative of the problem space |
| 19:41.17 | brlcad | should and will are very different ;) |
| 19:41.40 | poolio | :\ |
| 19:41.50 | poolio | hmm, slightly better results, let me upload |
| 19:44.36 | poolio | Hehe, mged does surprisingly well drawing 400 objects at once :) |
| 19:45.08 | brlcad | :) |
| 19:45.27 | brlcad | most real models have thousands of objects |
| 19:45.51 | poolio | brlcad: http://poolio.org/index.php?q=node/7 |
| 19:46.06 | brlcad | that's actually one of the things mged's relatively good at in comparison, it can open Pro/E models that Pro/E can't even open |
| 19:46.22 | poolio | yeah, but my machine is chugging on the 400 |
| 19:47.28 | brlcad | nice, that is much better |
| 19:48.08 | brlcad | it still got stuck but it actually seemed to converge roughly in the vicinity of the geometry fairly well |
| 19:49.31 | poolio | Yeah but I'd still expect better results from what I thought was such a trivial example |
| 19:50.46 | poolio | reducing the problem space gave a lot better results |
| 19:56.30 | poolio | brlcad: here: http://poolio.org/files/mon_1.jpg |
| 19:56.57 | poolio | I'm gonna grab a bite to eat while I run a larger test. |
| 20:06.32 | brlcad | there's still something really fish |
| 20:06.48 | brlcad | i mean it basically converged to a single best after just the fourth iteration |
| 20:07.48 | poolio | yes, which doesn't make much sense |
| 20:07.52 | poolio | it could have to do with mutation/reproduction rates |
| 20:07.57 | brlcad | either sample population is too small, or mutation rate is too low, or mutation and/or crossover isn't working would be my guess |
| 20:07.58 | poolio | well there is no mutation |
| 20:08.11 | brlcad | ah, no mutation yet |
| 20:08.15 | poolio | it's just that crossover isn't producing any better individuals |
| 20:08.23 | poolio | although...let me find this quote, one sec |
| 20:08.28 | brlcad | still, even with just crossover and random generation |
| 20:08.36 | brlcad | how are you currently doing crossover? |
| 20:09.16 | poolio | well there is no random generation |
| 20:09.21 | poolio | ok the current setup is thus: |
| 20:09.45 | poolio | a) spawn initial population -- currently done by creating 3 spheres at random positions in a certain limited domain with a random radius |
| 20:10.02 | poolio | and then |
| 20:10.04 | poolio | for each generation |
| 20:10.09 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:10.16 | poolio | actually let me just write this up |
| 20:10.19 | poolio | it's a lot for IRC :P |
| 20:10.49 | brlcad | crossover really needs to be pretty complex enough to allow a configuration parameter defined such that the top N (# or %) proceed unmodified, the bottom M (# or %) are killed, and of the remaining middle perform your random crossover pairings |
| 20:11.50 | poolio | hmm |
| 20:11.56 | brlcad | for those killed, newly generated are spawned of course |
| 20:12.01 | poolio | I don't just use the top N |
| 20:12.21 | poolio | I'm using the tournament selection method, where the probability of selecting an individual correlates to its fitness |
| 20:12.29 | poolio | but theoretically the most fit individual could not be selected |
| 20:13.15 | brlcad | i'm saying that selection is what you use for the "middle", but that there needs to be some knob for unmodified progression and death as well |
| 20:13.46 | poolio | Should there really be though? |
| 20:13.58 | brlcad | anything that matches the input within a tolerance of 95%, for example, might be a desired configuration |
| 20:14.01 | poolio | From what I read it is good to keep the population diverse and include unfit individuals |
| 20:14.11 | brlcad | it is good to include unfit |
| 20:14.28 | brlcad | the upper in is just a knob (that can be zero, or weighted, etc) |
| 20:14.43 | poolio | So you're saying, include some top %, cut some bottom %, and perform the selection on the middle % |
| 20:14.44 | brlcad | generally, it's just one or two candidates, depending on the population size |
| 20:14.59 | poolio | and essentially remove the middle and bottom, replacing them with the new individuals created from the selection of the middle %? |
| 20:15.40 | poolio | So keep top N, remove bottom M, and do what I've been doing on the entire population for what's left? |
| 20:15.48 | brlcad | yes |
| 20:15.57 | brlcad | mind you, N and M are exceptionally small |
| 20:16.30 | poolio | Alright, but even with that I feel like I should be getting better results. I know that I should implement that, but I'd like to make sure it can converge first |
| 20:16.42 | brlcad | you can crossover with one retained to fill a killed spot, but the retained is still retained |
| 20:17.22 | brlcad | you should be able to converge even without that, but I think that will be eventually be necessary for more complex models |
| 20:17.23 | poolio | hmm, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. |
| 20:17.33 | poolio | yeah I agree |
| 20:17.49 | brlcad | the bias injects new material into the population to work with and prevents a local minima from keeping you stuck indefinitely |
| 20:17.56 | poolio | when you say "but the retained is still retained" you're saying the top N you've selected are retained and kept? |
| 20:18.11 | brlcad | with simulated annealing, you can increase that M to something much larger if you do get stuck on a bad answer |
| 20:18.27 | poolio | alright |
| 20:18.30 | brlcad | yes, that's what I mean |
| 20:18.38 | poolio | and how does the bias inject new material? I thought it just included more of old? |
| 20:19.23 | poolio | hmm |
| 20:19.33 | poolio | My reproduction rate was quite high, that's probably part of it |
| 20:19.38 | brlcad | so you have AAA BBB CCC DDD .. AAA is kept, DDD is killed, AAA BBB CCC are potentially crossed |
| 20:20.17 | poolio | Oh alright, so include AAA in selection? |
| 20:20.22 | poolio | not just BBB CCC? |
| 20:20.23 | brlcad | and a new EEE can be injected to fill remaining slot |
| 20:20.32 | brlcad | that's a knob, you should allow it |
| 20:20.52 | brlcad | otherwise it's just dead material |
| 20:21.48 | poolio | k |
| 20:22.48 | brlcad | so you could end up with AAA AAB BBC EEE or AAA BBC CCB EEE or AAA ABB BBC EEE, etc |
| 20:23.13 | brlcad | or even AAA AAB BBC CCB |
| 20:23.24 | brlcad | depends on your selection rates |
| 20:23.29 | poolio | yeah |
| 20:24.18 | poolio | It still converges almost immediately with 90% crossover rate |
| 20:24.52 | brlcad | have it calculate and print out your average population fitness each iteration |
| 20:25.12 | brlcad | as well as the min/max |
| 20:25.17 | poolio | k |
| 20:27.38 | brlcad | since it very well could fine a "really good" initial guess on just the first iteration, yet continually improve the average fitness after a few hundred iterations to the point that it finds a new best |
| 20:30.04 | poolio | weird. average is pretty much constant, min fluctuates greatly, and max is constant |
| 21:27.18 | poolio | brlcad: argh. still not getting good results. I might just implement mutation and then try again. I don't see why it's converging so early... maybe I need to try a larger propulation, I mean the problem space is pretty big |
| 22:09.27 | poolio | brlcad: I'm off. This is really frustrating :\ |
| 22:09.41 | poolio | I don't have the patience to develop software... |
| 22:09.59 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h): more tweaks. two separated spheres still don't work... |
| 22:19.17 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:24.29 | brlcad | software development doesn't necessarily require patience, research generally does though |
| 22:30.59 | brlcad | your project is more the latter, and part why it's a harder problem. had you picked a path tracer, you'd probably be looking at pretty images by now ;-) |
| 22:32.46 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601105.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:34.09 | IriX64 | what does acromania do |
| 22:34.54 | IriX64 | i won't try it :) |
| 22:36.05 | IriX64 | brlcad is busy in libitcl3.2 so i thought id play while i wait on this update :) |
| 22:37.23 | IriX64 | sigh, cygwin is underappreciated you know |
| 22:41.41 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 22:42.44 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/4ft7tl62.html <--- hah should get a server op to test this :) |
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| 02:28.36 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Humor.png <--- some more fun with WiniX(tm) |
| 02:32.18 | louipc | what's that Borland C? |
| 02:37.45 | IriX64 | yea turboc :) |
| 02:38.12 | IriX64 | turboc for dos |
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| 03:17.26 | IriX64 | identity crisis louipc |
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| 14:59.19 | poolio | brlcad: I think the problem has to be in my fitness function, it looks like it's marking the same objects as having the same fitness when they shouldn't |
| 15:03.58 | poolio | brlcad: hmm, the fitness might actually be right, is there a way to set the bounding box for "rt" ? |
| 15:05.43 | poolio | hmm, that was it. fitness was right, visualizations are wrong |
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| 16:41.10 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 17:11.25 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to just kind of take a snapshot of the wireframes? and from a certain view? waiting for raytracing is taking a while and I don't need the pretty rt'd models |
| 17:39.56 | poolio | argh. I'm pretty stuck, now it's not even convering at all... |
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| 18:26.21 | yukonbob | poolio: in mged: "ps myoutput.ps" |
| 18:27.37 | yukonbob | (generates a postscript file) |
| 18:29.31 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:29.59 | poolio | where's it saved? |
| 18:30.10 | poolio | oh dur |
| 18:31.07 | poolio | I just get a blakn window? |
| 18:32.16 | yukonbob | ?do you have your model loaded -- when I have an object displayed, and "ps myview.ps", I get a postscript file I view w/ gv (ghostview) |
| 18:33.25 | poolio | hmm, lemme try gv |
| 18:33.48 | poolio | ah hmm |
| 18:33.52 | poolio | guess it was evince |
| 18:34.46 | yukonbob | poolio: so is that giving you what you were looking for? |
| 18:35.04 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/Xy5csa63.html <--- did an update yesterday, this started happening (non-coerced build) |
| 18:35.20 | poolio | yukonbob: and is there a way to automate this outsie of brl-cad? Do something like this:http://poolio.org/~poolio/mon_3spheres_good.jpg but do it with postrscript? |
| 18:35.30 | poolio | yukonbob: well, it is giving me what I'm looking for I just don't think it has the options I need |
| 18:35.56 | yukonbob | poolio: ~poolio/mon_3spheres_good.jpg was not found on this server. |
| 18:36.17 | poolio | err crap |
| 18:36.23 | poolio | sale DNS records still? |
| 18:36.27 | poolio | is poolio.org up? |
| 18:36.49 | yukonbob | looks like it... |
| 18:36.51 | poolio | oops |
| 18:36.52 | poolio | yukonbob: http://poolio.org/~poolio/mon_3sph_good.jpg |
| 18:37.10 | poolio | s/sale/stale |
| 18:37.58 | IriX64 | why does it collapse to two bars along the left side poolio |
| 18:38.05 | poolio | huh? |
| 18:38.14 | poolio | click it and make it bigger |
| 18:38.21 | poolio | it's just an image |
| 18:38.30 | IriX64 | || <--- like that its fine while loading but completes to that |
| 18:39.02 | poolio | ...It's because your browser scales it down to fit in the window. if you use firefox click on it and it should restore to it's normal size |
| 18:39.24 | poolio | if you use IE hover over it and there's a button in the lower right that looks like a sunset image tha tyou can click to make it bigger, I think...been a while |
| 18:39.55 | IriX64 | that works thanks |
| 18:40.32 | IriX64 | conways game of life man ;) |
| 18:40.33 | yukonbob | poolio: well, you could script the running of the relevant commands then collect the output, convert to eps, and load into nice pdf, for example... |
| 18:41.05 | poolio | I'm just thinking I might have to do that if I can't specify the bounding box for 'rt' |
| 18:41.20 | poolio | yukonbob: so there's a way to montage post script files? |
| 18:41.47 | poolio | although the ps file would be a lot smaller |
| 18:42.14 | yukonbob | poolio: personally, I'd be including them into a docbook or LaTeX document and formatting them in there... ie: scaling and installing in tables, for example. |
| 18:42.32 | poolio | yeah I know nothing about any of that :\ |
| 18:42.57 | yukonbob | might be able to use imagemagick/graphicsmagick to montage ps as well... haven |
| 18:43.04 | yukonbob | *haven't tried. |
| 18:43.21 | poolio | hmm |
| 18:43.26 | poolio | yeah I'm using imagemagick currently |
| 18:43.49 | poolio | yukonbob: I guess I might as well try it :) |
| 18:44.24 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 18:45.25 | yukonbob | poolio: I just did, and it seems to work nicely.... |
| 18:45.41 | poolio | oh sweet, I'll try that out, just need to figure out how to call ps externally |
| 18:50.29 | yukonbob | poolio: mged -f mydb.g 'e mymodel; ae 20 20 10; ps myoutput.ps' |
| 18:51.00 | poolio | wouldn't that be slower than using a backend though? |
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| 19:04.01 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
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| 19:07.44 | poolio | yukonbob: I think PS is just as slow as raytracing the objects... |
| 19:08.01 | poolio | slower actually |
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| 19:09.55 | yukonbob | poolio: what's the process you use to generate the iterations of sphere? |
| 19:09.58 | yukonbob | *spheres |
| 19:12.02 | poolio | hmm? |
| 19:12.07 | poolio | genetic algorithms? |
| 19:12.25 | poolio | I don't want the entire PS view, I just need the wireframe |
| 19:15.00 | poolio | yukonbob: alright, I think I'll stick to my current methods, thanks though |
| 19:42.53 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c beset.h fitness.h): minor tweaks. still struggling on two spheres. i have my doubts as to whether the whole project will work... |
| 19:52.54 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:15.49 | IriX64 | did a cvs update librt seems all right now at least here |
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| 21:48.20 | IriX64 | crazy man, my system is doing three compiles all at once, hilarious :) |
| 21:49.13 | IriX64 | gcc you're a thing of beauty :) |
| 21:49.47 | *** join/#brlcad cad50 (n=54906d20@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 21:49.55 | IriX64 | hi cad50 |
| 21:53.55 | dtidrow | drive-by.... |
| 21:54.05 | IriX64 | missed :) |
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| 21:59.17 | yukonbob | . |
| 22:04.55 | brlcad | .. |
| 22:06.08 | dtidrow | ... |
| 22:08.00 | dtidrow | well, time to head home - later all... |
| 22:08.06 | IriX64 | l8r |
| 22:08.24 | brlcad | go ahead and break the pattern :P |
| 22:08.50 | IriX64 | thats a sequencial array of points made is it not? |
| 22:23.49 | yukonbob | ?did you see poolio's question re: faster way to "render" his model views |
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| 02:38.55 | IriX64 | fprot |
| 02:38.59 | IriX64 | whup |
| 02:46.39 | poolio | qwesd? |
| 03:15.15 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad-7.8.4-havoc.jpg |
| 03:20.47 | poolio | purty. |
| 03:29.51 | IriX64 | swet too |
| 03:29.56 | IriX64 | *sweet |
| 03:30.18 | IriX64 | shower time, i'll be back |
| 04:23.17 | IriX64 | now if i could get 7.10.1 to do that :) |
| 04:25.05 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:56.28 | IriX64 | anybody awake? I have a hypothetical question |
| 04:58.23 | IriX64 | called redhat trying to get a licence to spread cygwin dll's around, they say no licence needed, what would be involved if i wanted to give selected friends a cygwin build of brlcad, either 7.8.4 or 7.10 |
| 05:36.04 | brlcad | what does redhat have to do with cygwin? |
| 05:57.23 | IriX64 | cygwin page says contact redhat for licence |
| 05:57.30 | IriX64 | so i did |
| 05:59.06 | brlcad | ah |
| 05:59.18 | brlcad | didn't know they had much to do with each other |
| 05:59.26 | IriX64 | me either |
| 06:03.17 | yukonbob | redhat owns cygwin, iirc |
| 06:04.00 | IriX64 | wasn't sure but like a good boy i called |
| 06:04.10 | IriX64 | and he said no licence required |
| 06:10.18 | IriX64 | i just get this system back up and i get the itch to try enterprise sigh |
| 06:11.37 | yukonbob | what would be required is that *you* provide access to source code, as per the gpl. apparently it's not enough to say "go get the code from the Internet". |
| 06:11.48 | yukonbob | ^-- IriX64 |
| 06:12.14 | IriX64 | got it but ill just give it to brlcad and let him support it :P |
| 06:12.52 | yukonbob | I'm sure he'll be happy to have something to use that free time he's been looking to fill... |
| 06:13.01 | IriX64 | heh |
| 06:13.22 | IriX64 | 7.8.4 is discontinued is it not? |
| 06:15.26 | IriX64 | my system is special though... |
| 06:15.52 | IriX64 | i visited www.mgm.com from the recycle bin window |
| 06:17.10 | IriX64 | my whole system is kinda tweaked here and there |
| 06:19.23 | yukonbob | IriX64: what do you mean "discontinued" |
| 06:19.41 | IriX64 | no longer being developed or is it? |
| 06:21.05 | yukonbob | considering 7.10.x is based on tcl/tk 8.5, and tcl/tk 8.5 is still in development, I hope that 7.8.4 is still on people's radar... Maybe not for feature enhancements, but at least for bug fixing... |
| 06:23.35 | IriX64 | noted, but my point is its not on cvs anymore, I was hoping the latest would still be avilable or at least an up to date tarball issued |
| 06:24.00 | yukonbob | ah... no idea... |
| 06:27.24 | IriX64 | coffee break :) |
| 06:46.06 | IriX64 | btw brlcad, your tree awaits you ;) |
| 06:48.35 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487528B.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 06:56.14 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 06:56.56 | IriX64_ | bjorkBSD i didn't see you come in, greets |
| 07:15.44 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:28.03 | IriX64 | hey |
| 10:14.15 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-085-114.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
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| 14:09.31 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:26.01 | poolio | brlcad: I'm going to adjust the fitness to be based off of similarity not off difference, maybe that will help out |
| 15:30.14 | brlcad | hm, okay |
| 15:32.30 | poolio | well I currently have the depth of the boundign box, and I'm saying like 1-diff/depth |
| 15:32.39 | poolio | so I'm switching to just same/depth |
| 15:34.05 | poolio | so basically fitness will be the intersection of the voxel data and the CSG tree divided by the union of the two |
| 16:09.29 | brlcad | poolio: hmm, I'm not sure you should account for CSG tree depth just yet, or if you do, it should simply be a fixed sliver of the fitness value |
| 16:10.03 | poolio | brlcad: alright |
| 16:10.15 | poolio | brlcad: I really neecd to somehow though, when I ran it without tree depth I got >10MB .g files |
| 16:10.25 | poolio | and it would take forever to run |
| 16:10.34 | poolio | trees has upwards of 100 leaves |
| 16:11.02 | brlcad | like N % of fitness where #nodes for a given candidate divided by the biggest candidate |
| 16:11.49 | brlcad | you can fix it at something known to be smaller for starters, maybe make it a command line param for how many nodes to have max |
| 16:12.07 | brlcad | I can generally look at a model and estimate about how many primitives it'll take to represent it |
| 16:12.44 | poolio | alright |
| 16:12.59 | brlcad | that can reduce some complexity for now too |
| 16:13.11 | poolio | so say 75% of fitness is it compared to the model, and the other 25 is #nodes/max_nodes ? |
| 16:13.28 | brlcad | since for your inputs for there are just a handful of objects, and a very specific optimal value, might as well feed it that value and see if it can even find it |
| 16:13.28 | poolio | Yeah that'd be great. I think it'd really struggle not knowing a general proximity for # of nodes |
| 16:14.23 | brlcad | you can do that, or just fix it at the user-supplied value |
| 16:14.44 | brlcad | that way, the fitness can just be %matching / total space |
| 16:15.50 | brlcad | once that is working, then you could add in something that tries to automatically figure out the number of primtivies and takes tree sizes into account, but that really sounds like a future step |
| 16:16.16 | poolio | yeah |
| 16:16.28 | poolio | I really wish I could get the damn thing working with this fairly trivial case |
| 16:16.37 | poolio | then I could move on to all these features that I'd really like to see implemented |
| 16:18.23 | poolio | brlcad: wait, but %matching/total_space doesnt take into account the user-supplied node value |
| 16:18.25 | brlcad | sounds like it's perhaps time for me to dive into the code in more detail for a bit |
| 16:18.39 | brlcad | hm? |
| 16:18.51 | poolio | You said "|12:16| <@ brlcad> that way, the fitness can just be %matching / total space" |
| 16:19.24 | brlcad | i'm saying that for starters, if the user ran ./beset -n 10, it'd just create models that had 10 primitives |
| 16:19.25 | poolio | I think a lot of the problem is making sure I have a good initial population and coming up with a good fitness function |
| 16:19.36 | poolio | brlcad: oh alright |
| 16:19.58 | poolio | but with crossover % set so high, and crossover randomly choosing any node, it's not likely to maintain that node count |
| 16:20.08 | brlcad | the fitness should be based on how much of the model correctly matches+misses / total space .. basically % correct |
| 16:20.11 | poolio | which could be part of the problem, and it might be worth implementing that selection strategy you talked about earlier |
| 16:20.48 | poolio | brlcad: yes, I was just thinking include tree depth |
| 16:20.58 | brlcad | ah, crossover would have to only swap nodes of equal depth, yes |
| 16:21.11 | poolio | say have fitness be %correct - abs(user-specified - node_count) |
| 16:21.17 | brlcad | s/depth/node count/ |
| 16:21.49 | poolio | brlcad: Is that how crossover should work? what I've read said it's just two random nodes |
| 16:21.59 | poolio | but that does make sense |
| 16:22.03 | poolio | actually that makes a lot of sense |
| 16:22.12 | brlcad | for the fitness equation to work, that's what it'd have to be |
| 16:22.21 | poolio | well the logic seems like it should be that |
| 16:22.21 | brlcad | otherwise you need a different fitness function |
| 16:22.31 | brlcad | and that's the whole point, so you can have a simple fitness function |
| 16:22.38 | poolio | although with that it's always going to keep the same node count, and the population will be very static |
| 16:22.58 | poolio | it'd mean your initial population would have to include atleast one individual with the number of nodes that will be in the model |
| 16:23.34 | poolio | if you cross at different node counts, I see the error... You could replace a tree with say 10 nodes, with just one leaf |
| 16:23.53 | poolio | so two highly fit individuals have the same chance of creating an awful individual as they do a good one |
| 16:23.56 | poolio | hrmph |
| 16:24.22 | brlcad | and i don't think "%correct - abs(user-specified - node_count)" is the next step .. should try to simplify so it's just %correct for now |
| 16:25.22 | poolio | alright |
| 16:25.34 | poolio | Yes, that's a good plan |
| 16:25.45 | poolio | that's what you meant by reducing dimensionality earlier |
| 16:25.51 | brlcad | yes |
| 16:26.04 | poolio | I should listen better |
| 16:26.34 | poolio | alright so I'll try to fix it up and fix fitness to be %correct |
| 16:27.07 | brlcad | i think you sort of jumped right into a 30-valued polynomial that you're trying to solve for :) |
| 16:27.19 | poolio | basically |
| 16:27.27 | poolio | I was hoping for some GA voodoo magic |
| 16:27.32 | poolio | it did kind of work |
| 16:27.36 | poolio | but I guess that was moreso luck |
| 16:27.45 | ``Erik | bleh |
| 16:27.51 | brlcad | which I think is solvable, but getting that fitness right on the first shot is exceptionally hard |
| 16:27.53 | poolio | alloo ``Erik |
| 16:28.10 | ``Erik | 'sup? is your evolution code evolving nicely? |
| 16:28.25 | poolio | I should write a GA to evolve itself to be a GA |
| 16:28.25 | gut_feeling | ``Erik: how is your openbsd emulation? |
| 16:28.33 | poolio | s/itself/my code |
| 16:28.42 | poolio | ``Erik: no, it's not. |
| 16:28.52 | ``Erik | untouched, karel, keeps sig12'ing during boot :( |
| 16:29.09 | ``Erik | I may repurpose a down machine here soon :/ |
| 16:30.26 | poolio | brlcad: should I search a tree for all nodes of some given depth or can I just randomly pick nodes until they fit together |
| 16:30.27 | gut_feeling | >/win 11 |
| 16:30.32 | poolio | I guess the former is much better |
| 16:31.23 | ``Erik | sf discontinued their compile farm, right? |
| 16:35.21 | poolio | brlcad: so it looks like i need to pick a certain node on the first tree, count how many child nodes it has, search the second tree for nodes with the same # of children. randomly pick one of those nodes in the second tree and crossover, or repick a node in the first of a different depth |
| 16:36.14 | poolio | |12:31| < poolio> I guess the former is much better |
| 16:36.15 | poolio | |12:32| � gut_feeling <> changes nick to feral_feeling |
| 16:36.18 | poolio | eeek |
| 16:36.19 | poolio | sorry |
| 16:40.43 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:40.57 | ``Erik | brlcad, would you mind culling some naughty rogue processes on your desktop? |
| 16:41.11 | ``Erik | they're beating up my po' server |
| 16:48.39 | brlcad | poolio: yeah, something like that |
| 16:49.02 | brlcad | ``Erik: which? |
| 16:49.15 | ``Erik | um, firefox finds, you have 3 of them punishing nfs |
| 16:49.31 | ``Erik | and a slew of local log rotate scripts grinding |
| 16:49.32 | brlcad | er, firefox isn't even running |
| 16:49.39 | ``Erik | ... scripts looking for firefox |
| 16:49.50 | ``Erik | that are fucktarded and wander into nfs land |
| 16:49.59 | brlcad | ooh, that's someone else's doing |
| 16:50.03 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 16:50.09 | brlcad | yeah, kill em |
| 16:50.19 | ``Erik | but it's your box, so I didn't wanna go shotgunning without at least talkin' to ya |
| 16:50.26 | brlcad | yeah thx |
| 16:51.16 | ``Erik | bahhhh, I'm not in wheel |
| 17:01.44 | brlcad | i killed them |
| 17:01.44 | ``Erik | thanks |
| 17:01.45 | poolio | brlcad: murderer! |
| 17:02.38 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593523.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:04.08 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/oMXfGH20.html <--- are you interested in this one? |
| 17:13.26 | IriX64 | btw libXft *needs to be used. |
| 17:15.59 | IriX64 | doesn't solve my ogl problems though, but i'll keep looking |
| 17:18.36 | IriX64 | hey did anybody try my young friends hex.c? |
| 17:24.27 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8RMmsj90.html <--- deja-vu, this ones in remrt |
| 17:25.25 | poolio | brlcad: is using !!variable a bad practice? |
| 17:34.23 | ``Erik | heh, not the most readable :) |
| 17:35.31 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:37.03 | IriX64 | they both seem quite happy linking against libbu with thier bu_bomb routines commented out |
| 17:45.56 | IriX64 | har asc2g is running |
| 17:49.38 | poolio | isn't asc2g deprecated anyway? |
| 17:49.50 | IriX64 | its part of the compile |
| 17:49.56 | IriX64 | last part |
| 17:50.21 | IriX64 | to give you example geometry databases to play with |
| 17:52.56 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/hex.c <-- threaded bolt maker |
| 17:55.01 | IriX64 | my sons friend did that, they compete, I think Jamie won that round :) |
| 17:58.33 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:58.58 | ``Erik | why would asc2g be deprecated? it converts between the db's ascii and binary forms... |
| 18:00.42 | ``Erik | heh, neat |
| 18:01.13 | ``Erik | sign issues out the wazoo during compile |
| 18:01.45 | ``Erik | sprintf() is generally considered poor form, can lead to overruns... snprintf is generally preferred |
| 18:02.12 | poolio | not deprecated, but no longer needed or something. like in the comments it said that it was no longer needed to move over databases or something. oh well. |
| 18:03.20 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad-7.10.1 your code running :) |
| 18:03.50 | IriX64 | roses need watering ill be back in a bit :) |
| 18:14.24 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: removed unnecessary blank lines |
| 18:19.43 | IriX64 | same url /framebuffer.jpg |
| 18:21.50 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 18:31.07 | IriX64 | same url /guimode.jpg and now i'm taking a break, afk for a bit |
| 18:54.41 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726476.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:51.20 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to john p. williams for adding support for vrml2 to g-vrml |
| 19:52.42 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: durfee's middle name was edward |
| 19:54.55 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to bob strausser for his contributions to patch-g in '93 |
| 19:56.20 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: consistency with SURVICE case |
| 19:57.49 | ``Erik | was or is? O.o |
| 19:57.53 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (49 files in 49 dirs): de-recurse this bit of the build tree |
| 20:03.30 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: omg, I apparently missed nirt's infamous author. credit natalie eberius for her work on nirt which according to cvs was circa 1990. |
| 20:06.00 | *** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru) | |
| 20:16.05 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: credit Douglas P. Kingston III for his work really early on (circa '81) on libfb paged io, as well as work on dbcp, loop, op-bw, and more. don't know his exact affiliation yet |
| 20:19.02 | Maloeran | Adding credits for work performed 26 years ago? That's... interesting :) |
| 20:21.16 | ``Erik | code archeology, heh |
| 20:23.19 | ``Erik | apparently, he was on acst t some point |
| 20:23.23 | ``Erik | http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/misc/tcp_ip/8702.mm.www/0175.html |
| 20:24.11 | ``Erik | (assuming that's the same Douglas P. Kingston III) |
| 20:26.04 | Maloeran | III is unusual as a family name |
| 20:26.22 | ``Erik | um, it's not, kingston is... he's the third... |
| 20:27.03 | Maloeran | I have never seen such a family name. I heard about the 2.0 suffix to a child's name though |
| 20:55.01 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680011.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:01.03 | brlcad | Maloeran: seriously, you haven't? |
| 21:01.59 | brlcad | I mean, Pope John Paul II .. King Henry IV .. Queen Elizabeth II ... |
| 21:03.39 | brlcad | there are famous names through the centuries like that, aside from just general use |
| 21:05.49 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/SrnFp444.html <--- this is with opengl enabled |
| 21:07.16 | ``Erik | <-- hoping that mal is being facetious |
| 21:08.51 | IriX64 | glx define didn't get set |
| 21:09.09 | ``Erik | glX is for X, yours should use wgl |
| 21:09.36 | IriX64 | err if i have glx it should find it, 7.8.4 did |
| 21:11.10 | IriX64 | sorry i intruded on your conversation |
| 21:12.36 | Maloeran | Sure brlcad, but these are more titles than names, I didn't expect to see that outside archaic institutions |
| 21:12.37 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-085-114.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 21:13.14 | IriX64 | elite01: count what you have lost and lose no more :) |
| 21:13.32 | elite01 | hehe :) |
| 21:13.40 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:13.50 | elite01 | nah, i don't quit to show-off my ubercool quit messages |
| 21:14.08 | IriX64 | i know that but i couldn't resist |
| 21:14.11 | elite01 | i dunno xchat just somehow went away - i must've slipped a row or so on this crappy laptop keyboard |
| 21:14.44 | IriX64 | tried building xchat from source, several issues i have to look at..... later |
| 21:15.09 | elite01 | no idea why one would want to build it from source |
| 21:15.22 | IriX64 | for the heck of it :) |
| 21:15.26 | elite01 | i see :) |
| 21:15.48 | IriX64 | i like bitchx too |
| 21:16.20 | elite01 | i used it once to ask why my x server wouldn't start :D |
| 21:17.24 | IriX64 | you like gui's then, i mix command line with gui |
| 21:17.30 | elite01 | otherwise, i'm quite loyal to xchat |
| 21:17.41 | IriX64 | i hop around |
| 21:18.48 | elite01 | hmm yes i'm more or less a gui guy |
| 21:19.12 | elite01 | never bothered to learn using vi or emacs or something like that |
| 21:19.23 | elite01 | i rather use gedit or even something like netbeans |
| 21:19.49 | IriX64 | i use tedit and e ;) |
| 21:20.19 | IriX64 | err epm |
| 21:20.34 | elite01 | don't know them |
| 21:20.44 | IriX64 | os/2 stuff |
| 21:20.48 | elite01 | oh |
| 21:20.53 | elite01 | i master most of nano :) |
| 21:21.14 | IriX64 | tried nano quite good but jove is good too |
| 21:21.41 | IriX64 | jove runs on my system :) |
| 21:21.58 | elite01 | amazing :) |
| 21:22.06 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:48.28 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 22:06.16 | IriX64 | elite01: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jove.jpg |
| 22:07.03 | elite01 | looks... plain |
| 22:07.16 | IriX64 | is it supposed to be fancy |
| 22:10.05 | elite01 | http://bayimg.com/EAEdFaabj that's fancy :) |
| 22:11.10 | IriX64 | sure as heck is :) |
| 22:11.24 | IriX64 | how do you keep track of all the buttons :) |
| 22:12.16 | elite01 | hehe |
| 22:14.26 | elite01 | just look at http://bayimg.com/eaEDkAABJ |
| 22:14.33 | elite01 | *that*'s buttons :P |
| 22:14.47 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r208 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCEvents.h src/irClientEvents.cpp): |
| 22:14.47 | CIA-29 | libirc: add an event at the end of the connection cycle ( end of MOTD ) |
| 22:14.47 | CIA-29 | libirc: eIRCConnectedEvent |
| 22:14.47 | CIA-29 | libirc: so that clients know when they can start joining channels and sending |
| 22:14.47 | CIA-29 | libirc: messages and stuff. |
| 22:15.55 | IriX64 | a coding editor? (can't make out the text) |
| 22:16.17 | elite01 | click the image |
| 22:16.49 | elite01 | the refactoring stuff is amazing |
| 22:18.12 | IriX64 | you're a java developer? |
| 22:18.40 | elite01 | from time to... time |
| 22:18.56 | IriX64 | beans is your effort? if so kudos |
| 22:19.18 | IriX64 | gui programmer sweet |
| 22:19.44 | elite01 | no, i didn't collaborate to netbeans |
| 22:20.28 | IriX64 | high class stuff, i admit i'm outclassed here :) |
| 22:21.06 | elite01 | nah, it just looks ugly :) |
| 22:22.26 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r209 10/trunk/libirc/ (7 files in 4 dirs): it's IRCTextUtils not TextUtils. set it straight everywheres |
| 22:23.34 | IriX64 | elite01: same url turboc.jpg, thats more my speed :) |
| 22:23.35 | elite01 | still, i believe netbeans is one of the best ides out there - a pleasure to use |
| 22:24.08 | IriX64 | ive never tried it, never heard of it till you brought it up, says something about me |
| 22:24.27 | elite01 | at least you don't need a gig of ram to run it |
| 22:24.34 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:26.09 | IriX64 | did you think jove is mine? |
| 22:26.26 | IriX64 | it's part of brlcad |
| 22:26.39 | elite01 | hmm didn't think of it being yours or not |
| 22:26.41 | elite01 | it is? |
| 22:26.45 | IriX64 | yes |
| 22:27.10 | elite01 | oh, nice |
| 22:27.32 | IriX64 | the nice part is the rest of brlcad |
| 22:27.50 | elite01 | hehe |
| 22:27.57 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:28.07 | elite01 | i don't master brlcad yet |
| 22:28.36 | IriX64 | me either, it's tough |
| 22:28.36 | IriX64 | but i'm told well worth the effort |
| 22:28.36 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r210 10/trunk/libirc/include/TCPConnection.h: put the candle back |
| 22:28.47 | IriX64 | have you seen the stryker shot |
| 22:29.02 | elite01 | hmm dunno |
| 22:29.04 | IriX64 | http://brlcad.org images and screenshots |
| 22:29.08 | elite01 | i saw some helicopter |
| 22:29.18 | IriX64 | no not the copter |
| 22:29.27 | elite01 | that one? of course :) |
| 22:29.35 | elite01 | it sure is an eyecatcher |
| 22:30.08 | IriX64 | you miss the point that vehiclee was build from the brlcad work |
| 22:30.22 | elite01 | the most... "ugly" programs are often the best :) |
| 22:30.29 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:30.40 | elite01 | hm? what do you mean by that? |
| 22:31.03 | IriX64 | some consider a program ugly some find it quite nice |
| 22:31.33 | elite01 | well, it's how they look, how comfortable it is to use and how quickly experienced people get stuff done |
| 22:32.02 | IriX64 | true but there's always a learning curve, sometimes steep |
| 22:32.24 | elite01 | yes |
| 22:33.43 | *** join/#brlcad SuperTaz (n=taz@adsl-69-210-240-223.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 22:33.43 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 22:33.43 | *** join/#brlcad joevalleyfield (n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 22:33.43 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 22:34.03 | brlcad | Maloeran: that's actually part of their name, not just a title ... |
| 22:34.14 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 22:34.14 | brlcad | that's a tradition that goes *way* back .. |
| 22:34.40 | brlcad | if you give your kid the same name as their parent, they become a II, or a III |
| 22:34.42 | brlcad | etc |
| 22:35.09 | dtidrow_work | well, II usually equals Jr. |
| 22:35.35 | IriX64 | brlcad: defineing that glx define allowed it to build completely |
| 22:35.52 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:38.48 | ``Erik | napoleon XIV |
| 22:54.49 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03dtremenak * r211 10/trunk/libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: map.erase() doesn't return anything on gcc |
| 23:08.10 | louipc | jove is actually a UofT app :P |
| 23:11.00 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03l4m3rthanyou * r212 10/trunk/libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: Woo, couple more itr fixes |
| 23:12.14 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r213 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: libIRC has a build system now, and is not "all ugly" so take that out of the todo |
| 23:12.50 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 23:13.01 | ``Erik | libIRC rises from the grave? |
| 23:43.51 | brlcad | rumors of it's demise are greatly exaggerated |
| 23:44.40 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:47.58 | dtidrow | "Can't load IA 32-bit .so on a IA 32-bit platform" - totally whacked Java JNI error |
| 23:48.21 | dtidrow | totally useless, and totally misleading |
| 23:50.07 | dtidrow | I had to downgrade the Java version to 1.5.0_07 to find the real problem: "undefined symbol: _ZN16GLRefreshVisitor5applyERN3osg7TextureE" |
| 23:50.36 | dtidrow | insane.... |
| 23:51.20 | dtidrow | at least I can go home now that I've fixed the _real_ problem |
| 23:53.02 | brlcad | fun fun |
| 23:53.39 | brlcad | hey, dtidrow .. here's a question for you.. is there a way to jni load a library that has (unused) unresolved symbols? |
| 23:54.08 | brlcad | stuff that ld has no trouble whatsoever using, you can dlopen just fine, but jni loader chokes |
| 23:54.33 | brlcad | usually another lib that the library uses |
| 23:55.04 | dtidrow | not sure, though I think there are some commandline arguments you can use to direct the jvm to the right libs |
| 23:55.16 | dtidrow | as well as LD_LIBRARY_PATH, of coures |
| 23:56.06 | brlcad | yeah, it ignores the ld_lib_path |
| 23:56.30 | dtidrow | it shouldn't, afaik |
| 23:56.33 | brlcad | or at least doesn't know how/where to find the lib to resolve it |
| 23:56.52 | brlcad | (even though the .so does say how/where) |
| 23:57.08 | brlcad | otherwise even dlopen would die on some symbols |
| 23:57.56 | dtidrow | yeah - if dlopen works, the jvm should have no problem either |
| 23:58.27 | brlcad | yeah, that's what's been a pita |
| 23:58.50 | brlcad | dlopen is fine |
| 23:59.10 | brlcad | I've had to make fully resolved libraries (i.e. mega libraries!) that has the dependencies all included |
| 23:59.11 | dtidrow | afaik, the "System.loadLibrary( lib );" is just a wrapper around dlopen |
| 23:59.24 | brlcad | even stupid things like tcl/tk (which makes for a huge .so) |
| 23:59.47 | dtidrow | what was the lib name that you passed in to System.loadLibrary()? |
| 00:00.43 | dtidrow | haven't had a problem with that here, and the lib we load sucks in a lot of .so's |
| 00:02.20 | dtidrow | you're not trying to pass in the full name of the lib, are you? |
| 00:03.20 | dtidrow | iiuc, System.loadLibrary() expands the name given to it, eg. 'vis' expands to libvis.so |
| 00:03.55 | dtidrow | at least on Linux - all bets are off on OSX ;-) |
| 00:03.58 | brlcad | I'll dig to make sure, but I'm pretty sure it's just the short name |
| 00:04.25 | dtidrow | OSX has some weird packaging schemes |
| 00:04.31 | brlcad | like I said, it works just fine if the .so is resolved, it's only when it's not |
| 00:05.02 | dtidrow | resolved meaning it can find it in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH? |
| 00:05.32 | brlcad | no, meaning that it doesn't have to -- all symbols in the .so are resolved (none undefined if you do an nm) |
| 00:05.40 | dtidrow | ah |
| 00:05.47 | dtidrow | odd |
| 00:07.00 | brlcad | yeah, it's just: System.loadLibrary ("rtserver"); |
| 00:07.09 | brlcad | we have a librtserver in brl-cad |
| 00:07.14 | brlcad | pretty straightforward |
| 00:07.35 | dtidrow | librtserver.so? |
| 00:07.49 | brlcad | on non-mac, yes :) |
| 00:08.15 | dtidrow | it works on non-macs? |
| 00:08.23 | dtidrow | or n ot at all? |
| 00:08.29 | brlcad | iirc, no -- not at all |
| 00:09.36 | dtidrow | gotta be an libpath issue, then - any chance that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was getting reset/changed before java ran? |
| 00:09.53 | dtidrow | like in a script, perhaps? |
| 00:10.02 | dtidrow | jsut brainstorming here... |
| 00:10.36 | brlcad | the ld path is set, it's set to a mass of paths that are otherwise required for other javanessy things it needs (and one of the paths includes the dir that has the .so's in question) |
| 00:11.07 | brlcad | otherwise even System.loadLibrary ("rtserver"); wouldn't work on the fully resolved library |
| 00:11.13 | dtidrow | very odd, then - it _ought_ to work |
| 00:11.44 | dtidrow | and 'ldd' finds all the deps? |
| 00:12.14 | brlcad | yeah, it does |
| 00:12.50 | dtidrow | makes no sense at all then |
| 00:15.11 | dtidrow | anyway, gotta head home - 'nite all... |
| 01:14.34 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (407 files in 39 dirs): remove ephemeral data like phone numbers and addresses, including the misleading 'source' statements on code that is continually evolving and receiving contributions from many many sources |
| 02:08.35 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177680011.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:09.39 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/ogl.jpg <---- got my ogl issues sorted out :) |
| 02:15.16 | brlcad | can you quantify exactly what you needed to do? |
| 02:16.04 | IriX64 | for some reason my glx header wasn't being detected im still trying to get configure to find it |
| 02:17.13 | IriX64 | i don't speak configure very well :( |
| 02:18.17 | IriX64 | didint have to touch the code if thats what you're after |
| 02:18.43 | brlcad | i didn't think you would have had to |
| 02:18.50 | IriX64 | aren't build issues fun sigh |
| 02:37.45 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/board.png <-- with my 30 degree conical |
| 02:38.41 | louipc | hm? |
| 02:39.10 | IriX64 | cant find page |
| 02:39.34 | brlcad | http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/07/make_your_own_printed_cir_1.html |
| 02:39.59 | brlcad | with a $10 flat iron ;) |
| 02:40.13 | IriX64 | found it :) |
| 02:41.43 | IriX64 | i used to do things like that then programming lured me :) |
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| 03:06.48 | Twingy | brlcad, I use a $20 griddle |
| 03:11.53 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680011.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:25.19 | IriX64 | http://sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Singular.jpg |
| 03:25.39 | louipc | 404 |
| 03:25.46 | yukonbob | The requested URL /mario.dulisse2/Singular.jpg was not found on this server. |
| 03:25.47 | yukonbob | Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. |
| 03:25.54 | yukonbob | heh |
| 03:26.48 | Twingy | brlcad, you can't do 10 mil traces with ferric chloride either |
| 03:26.48 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Singular.jpg (blush) |
| 03:27.02 | Twingy | I have a quart of it left from projects from years ago |
| 05:28.38 | *** part/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
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| 13:33.09 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 13:33.51 | poolio | wow. I actually just yawned when I read that |
| 13:35.46 | ``Erik | dork :) |
| 14:36.44 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: pass make flags in depends targets |
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| 17:10.11 | poolio | grargh. |
| 17:12.04 | MinuteElectron | ? |
| 17:15.24 | poolio | internet went down |
| 17:15.34 | poolio | and i really needed to figure out what i broke in my local cvs |
| 17:22.56 | ``Erik | why'd you break the intarweb? |
| 17:23.35 | poolio | my modem went down |
| 17:23.38 | poolio | and comcast doesn't respond to me |
| 17:23.58 | poolio | because there are only 3 houses in our neighborhood, so if internet goes downt hey don't give a shit |
| 17:25.50 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 17:26.43 | ``Erik | sucky |
| 17:28.59 | poolio | luckily it came back on |
| 17:29.02 | poolio | i was gonna go to an internet cafe |
| 17:29.11 | poolio | well, a cafe with wifi internet |
| 17:32.23 | poolio | so I tried to have one generic tree traversal function with lots of switch statements in it, but I feel like that may have been a bad decision...getting segfaults and debuggin it is a pain |
| 17:32.39 | poolio | and the code's probably clearer if I just seperate out the routines |
| 17:33.26 | ``Erik | probably |
| 17:33.40 | ``Erik | I assume you have gdb style stabs compiled in and are using the debugger? :) |
| 17:33.50 | poolio | no |
| 17:33.55 | ``Erik | ... |
| 17:33.58 | poolio | I nver learned the right way to debug |
| 17:34.04 | poolio | well gdb picks up the source code |
| 17:34.06 | ``Erik | might be a good time? |
| 17:34.08 | poolio | and tells me where it is |
| 17:34.31 | poolio | I just fail at figuring out why certain things are happening. Lik ewhere these null pointers keep popping up from |
| 17:34.36 | ``Erik | 'backtrace' and 'print' are good commands |
| 17:34.57 | ``Erik | and you can navigate the frames, too |
| 17:35.01 | poolio | yeah I know the basics, I should really take the time to learn more though, it'd help quite a bit |
| 17:36.16 | ``Erik | 'xxgdb' and 'ddd' provide gui frontends, might be easier than figuring out the syntax |
| 17:36.33 | poolio | maybe, although I've never been a big fan of GUIs |
| 17:36.42 | ``Erik | *shrug* me either :) |
| 17:37.07 | ``Erik | um, efence, dmalloc, ccmalloc, valgrind, ... |
| 17:38.02 | poolio | yeah valgrind doesnt play too nicely with multithreaded stuff though |
| 17:39.20 | ``Erik | choke it back to 1 thread? (or does it go heisenbug when you do that?) |
| 17:39.28 | poolio | heh no |
| 17:39.29 | poolio | I could do that |
| 18:01.06 | ``Erik | ah HAAAAAAA |
| 18:01.40 | ``Erik | he disabled the tclcad bezier canvas |
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| 18:18.28 | LinuxMafia | i can not run mged |
| 18:18.59 | LinuxMafia | it complains about itcltk/itk |
| 18:19.30 | IriX64 | did you build it yourself or are you using binaries? |
| 18:19.59 | LinuxMafia | i emerged it i used gentoo |
| 18:20.28 | IriX64 | any compile time errors or link errors |
| 18:20.33 | IriX64 | or warnings |
| 18:20.54 | LinuxMafia | Can't find a usable itk.tcl in the following directories: |
| 18:21.06 | IriX64 | the question was ... |
| 18:21.15 | LinuxMafia | no |
| 18:21.30 | LinuxMafia | it would not installed otherwise |
| 18:21.34 | IriX64 | did you add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path? |
| 18:21.46 | LinuxMafia | no |
| 18:21.50 | IriX64 | try |
| 18:22.05 | IriX64 | as make install tells you at end of run |
| 18:23.41 | LinuxMafia | i did |
| 18:23.46 | LinuxMafia | let me uptdate |
| 18:23.51 | IriX64 | can also try setting the environment variable to point to itk lib (forget the name at the moment though, anybody) |
| 18:25.04 | LinuxMafia | hum |
| 18:25.34 | LinuxMafia | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.58 | IriX64 | theres an envronment variable you can set to pint to that |
| 18:26.04 | IriX64 | point too |
| 18:26.18 | LinuxMafia | so i put this |
| 18:26.53 | LinuxMafia | export ITK_LIBRARY=/usr/lib64/itk3.3/ |
| 18:27.11 | IriX64 | and |
| 18:27.33 | IriX64 | btw what version we talking about here? |
| 18:28.26 | LinuxMafia | 3.3-r1 |
| 18:28.38 | IriX64 | of brlcad |
| 18:28.46 | LinuxMafia | 7.10 |
| 18:29.23 | LinuxMafia | wow |
| 18:29.27 | LinuxMafia | it worked now |
| 18:29.30 | LinuxMafia | i think i need |
| 18:29.32 | IriX64 | heh good |
| 18:29.32 | LinuxMafia | also |
| 18:29.44 | LinuxMafia | do the same for TCL |
| 18:32.17 | LinuxMafia | thanks alot IriX64 |
| 18:33.24 | IriX64 | welcome |
| 18:34.54 | IriX64 | mc |
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| 20:47.23 | IriX64 | system issues, such fun... bleah |
| 20:52.26 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/overlap <--- on the bright side your overlap tool works |
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| 21:30.05 | Maloeran | Woah, 1USD = 1.038CAD now. It's peculiar to lose 15% of one's income in an year due to the change rate |
| 21:39.03 | poolio | well there isn't too much inflation internally so it's not that big of a deal |
| 21:39.06 | poolio | as long as you remain in the US |
| 21:42.32 | Maloeran | I'm not in the US! :) I'm in Canada and get paid in USDs |
| 21:44.22 | poolio | eek |
| 21:44.23 | poolio | that sucks :) |
| 21:50.01 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to clip the depth of a raytrace? like limit the z-axis to some defined max? |
| 21:53.02 | poolio | brlcad: I remember in the past you told me not to modify the rt_i, (when it was clamping the bounding box) but if I need to shoot the same grid for each shape, won't I have to modify the variables inside of the application? |
| 21:53.16 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 21:53.48 | poolio | it looks like I missed that and that could have been why it wasn't working well. the fitness seems pretty arbitrary |
| 21:55.18 | poolio | well actually it was fine before, but that was because they were normalized to the z-depth, so scale was invariant along the z-axis, but I changed it assuming z-depth would be constant and that's where I ran into some problems. So I'm wondering if there's a way to clamp that value basically? |
| 21:57.09 | poolio | although it does eliminate a dimension at the cost of having a distorted object |
| 22:16.59 | brlcad | poolio: there is a_ray_length that will specify at what length the ray should terminate |
| 22:17.04 | brlcad | in the rti |
| 22:17.05 | poolio | brlcad: alright thanks |
| 22:17.08 | poolio | I actually went back to scaling |
| 22:17.11 | poolio | results seem slightly better |
| 22:17.17 | poolio | I now have the fixed-depth crossover working |
| 22:17.17 | brlcad | similar to a_onehit |
| 22:17.26 | poolio | yeah alright, thanks |
| 22:17.31 | poolio | the issue those is if it's offset, I'm screwed |
| 22:17.42 | poolio | Oh wait nevermind..I control where the ray is shot from |
| 22:17.44 | poolio | thanks :) |
| 22:18.54 | brlcad | how do you figure "results seem slightly better" ... |
| 22:19.23 | brlcad | it simply introduces more variability, so it won't necessarily get stuck on a bad answer .. that doesn't mean it's better though |
| 22:19.51 | poolio | slightly better with the crossover that makes sense (for now) |
| 22:20.03 | poolio | and something is up with fitness, give me a minute and Ill have some data to show you |
| 22:20.14 | brlcad | it shouldn't have anything to do with crossover |
| 22:20.23 | poolio | the results shouldn't? |
| 22:21.13 | brlcad | using a scaled size in your fitness function shouldn't have anything to do with crossover |
| 22:21.25 | brlcad | so yeah, the results shouldn't |
| 22:21.36 | poolio | Correct, yes. |
| 22:21.40 | brlcad | if they do, I'd think something else is suspect |
| 22:21.51 | poolio | The issue was that I had undid the scaling, taken the final difference, and divided that by the # of rays |
| 22:22.02 | poolio | the issue was that the rays fired at different lengths so I was getting odd answers |
| 22:22.31 | brlcad | yes, that's a problem confined to the fitness function :) |
| 22:22.56 | brlcad | scaling might make the math work out easier, but I don't think it's right |
| 22:23.18 | poolio | well, I was moving the scaling out, because I was scaling each bit |
| 22:23.20 | poolio | so I had like |
| 22:23.35 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:23.51 | poolio | so i was moving it so I stored the non-scaled rays, and then when I had calculated the comparison, then dividing that |
| 22:23.53 | brlcad | take the union of both bounding boxes, that's your absolute length, then compare % matching |
| 22:24.11 | poolio | I could do that too |
| 22:27.01 | poolio | alright I'm doing a larger run and then I'll show you the results. Hopefully it will be better :P |
| 22:30.26 | poolio | brlcad: yeah something is wrong here. fitness is ... decreasing |
| 22:35.45 | brlcad | hehe |
| 22:37.07 | poolio | what a fugly graph |
| 22:38.31 | poolio | brlcad: http://poolio.org/index.php?q=node/8 |
| 22:40.19 | poolio | brlcad: although wait, something has to be wrong with the fitness function. Look at the best individuals...they're different ... |
| 22:40.47 | poolio | Oh that was the other thing, can I raytrace those objects using 'rt' with a specified bounding box instead of an auto-generated one? |
| 22:44.16 | brlcad | what are the three lines in the graph? |
| 22:44.33 | poolio | wrost/average/best individuals for each generation |
| 22:44.38 | poolio | read the description :P |
| 22:45.29 | brlcad | yeah ... that's not at all what it should look like :) |
| 22:45.35 | poolio | yeah I know |
| 22:45.40 | poolio | I'm guessing my fitness function is broken |
| 22:45.47 | poolio | juding from the output of the visual and the output of the graph |
| 22:46.18 | poolio | It was the first thing I did and I trusted it was right but maybe not |
| 22:47.04 | poolio | the questionable code resides in compare_hit() in fitness.c |
| 22:47.12 | brlcad | you can almost ignore the visual for the time being .. average and best won't likely get that close that fast |
| 22:47.50 | brlcad | also, did you implement the "bring best N forward" yet? |
| 22:47.56 | poolio | no |
| 22:47.59 | brlcad | if so, that 70% shouldn't have disappeartd |
| 22:48.00 | poolio | I can whip that up in a minute though |
| 22:48.01 | brlcad | ahh, k |
| 22:48.30 | brlcad | i think you're right, though -- fitness function seems wrong |
| 22:48.51 | brlcad | or some twisted crossover bug is killing off your population |
| 22:49.01 | poolio | I have a family dinner to get to but I'll be back around 9. I'm guessing the isuse has to do with the compare_hit routine I've been trusting |
| 22:49.16 | poolio | I might take that out and run some test cases to make sure it's working right |
| 22:50.00 | brlcad | have a good dinner ;) |
| 22:50.17 | poolio | thanks for the help, hopefully I'll have something good to show you soon |
| 22:52.06 | poolio | :\ |
| 22:52.11 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:52.20 | brlcad | you're not far off |
| 22:52.27 | poolio | in the timeline I am :) |
| 22:52.31 | brlcad | once it starts working, I think it'll be a lot more encouraging ;) |
| 22:52.42 | brlcad | yeah, timeline is the only crunch |
| 22:52.51 | poolio | I _need_ something working |
| 22:53.05 | poolio | Not just for you to show, but also to know I didn't waste away my summer on a broken hunk of code |
| 22:53.16 | brlcad | likewise |
| 22:53.48 | poolio | wow. pretty embarassing how little code there is too |
| 22:53.49 | brlcad | being able to demo your program to dozens of people you've never met ... |
| 22:53.50 | poolio | <2k |
| 22:53.54 | brlcad | that control lots of money :) |
| 22:54.10 | poolio | even if it only works on simple test cases? |
| 22:54.15 | brlcad | yes |
| 22:54.27 | brlcad | the technical aspects are pretty deep |
| 22:54.48 | poolio | but the code and implementation isn't that difficult |
| 22:54.49 | brlcad | probably a little more deep that you know yet, which is part why it's been a lil tricky to implement aside from the coding issues |
| 22:54.56 | poolio | If you had 5 days to spare you could have done it by now |
| 22:55.08 | brlcad | i don't have 5 days to spare :) |
| 22:55.14 | brlcad | contrary to the time I spend on IRC |
| 22:55.32 | poolio | just don't sleep. you'll do fine. |
| 22:55.56 | poolio | your time is also much more valuable |
| 22:56.10 | poolio | but seriously, if you took the time you've spent helping me out / trying to get me the job, it could've been done by now |
| 22:56.22 | poolio | (i'm just slightly pessimistic :)) |
| 22:58.01 | brlcad | getting good people is often way more important than getting the work done |
| 22:58.19 | brlcad | if the work was the #1 priority in your case, you wouldn't be working on this pariticular project |
| 22:58.35 | brlcad | it would have been one of the other tasks .. or worse ;) |
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| 00:17.15 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
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| 02:03.40 | poolio | brlcad: Aha! |
| 02:04.16 | poolio | brlcad: when the point the ray is being shot from is inside the model, it includes the point outside the bounding box |
| 02:04.26 | poolio | I'm guessying you knew that though |
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| 04:31.09 | brlcad | yes, the starting segment can be behind your starting hit point if you're inside something |
| 04:31.24 | brlcad | applications have to manually trim or back out accordingly |
| 04:31.51 | brlcad | and yes, quite intentional behavior :) |
| 04:47.20 | poolio | brlcad: so would it be acceptable to just truncate the negative inhit distance? |
| 04:49.21 | brlcad | I'm not sure I understand why you'd ever be shooting from inside the geometry |
| 04:50.02 | brlcad | otherwise, you sort of need that, gets to what I mentioned earlier about having your fitness use the union of their two bounding boxes |
| 04:50.42 | brlcad | that's a case where your sample bounding box is bigger than your input's so okay for that case I could see you might be inside, but that's where the union of the box becomes important for the fitness |
| 04:51.33 | poolio | well the issue is I have a fixed bounding box to make crossover work |
| 04:52.24 | poolio | And I'm shooting from inside the geometry because I have a fixed bounding box |
| 04:54.24 | poolio | an alternative would just be to say crop the bounding box if it was greater than the size of the source's bounding box |
| 04:54.45 | poolio | and grow other bounding boxes if they are too small |
| 04:55.08 | poolio | Actually I wouldn't need to do that |
| 04:55.59 | poolio | Just remember the grid spacing from the source, and a corner of the bounding box from the current object |
| 04:57.41 | poolio | Crap, but the issue with doing the ratio of say a ray's depth to its bounding box is that it means it messed up crossover in the z direction. if you cross two fit individuals the child could be terribly unfit because the depth of the objects could be so varied |
| 04:58.32 | poolio | so it looks like the best solution is to use a_ray_length and use the fixed coordinates for the rays for every single model |
| 05:03.53 | brlcad | you could reshoot the grid based on the union of both the genotype and the input, but that'd be horribly inefficient -- you should be able to shoot exactly the same rays you initially shot for the input as well as additional rays as needed if the model was bigger |
| 05:04.25 | brlcad | if that's too much, then just process your segments yourself clamping the starting and ending to be withing the original box |
| 05:05.26 | brlcad | I don't recall if a_ray_length will trim the segment or if it is like the starting segment such that it just guarantees there will not be a new segment encountered past that length (i.e. an entry) |
| 05:05.40 | poolio | ok |
| 05:06.27 | poolio | So I'm just going to clamp the input to 0, and the maximum to the mdl_max[Z] of the input |
| 05:06.42 | brlcad | probably easiest for now and should be fine |
| 05:07.02 | brlcad | could even try to guarantee that your sample geometry will not go outside those bounds either |
| 05:07.29 | brlcad | becomes really problematic once you add subtractions and unions, but it should be good enough for now |
| 05:08.55 | poolio | what do you mean trying not to guarantee that sample gemoetry will not go outside those bounds? |
| 05:09.45 | brlcad | well, why is your geometry outside the input bounding box? |
| 05:10.20 | poolio | well I see what you mean, but just cause it's outside the bounding box doesn't mean we don't want it |
| 05:10.29 | brlcad | exactly |
| 05:10.35 | brlcad | but you could clamp it if you wanted |
| 05:10.37 | poolio | As you said with subtractions and intersections, that shape could become vital |
| 05:10.38 | brlcad | at least for unions |
| 05:10.42 | poolio | true |
| 05:10.57 | poolio | but I mean it might be that our model is shapes like a hemisphere |
| 05:11.13 | poolio | in which case we want to allow the model to be outside of the bounding box |
| 05:11.27 | poolio | however, as I think I still havent done, shapes which don't intersect the bounding box are pointless |
| 05:12.00 | brlcad | to properly do subtractions and intersections, though, the genotype's bounding box is going to have to be accounted for when you shoot rays (by shooting additional rays) just for it to work |
| 05:12.05 | poolio | but ideally the GA would be able to magically sift those out :) |
| 05:12.25 | brlcad | yes, that's important .. all primtives must be enclosed by or intersect the input bounding box |
| 05:12.26 | poolio | wait, why would I need to shoot additional rays? |
| 05:13.31 | brlcad | well, if you did a cross-over with some shape that was bigger, and that intersected something else that was bigger, and the operation was an intersection -- there could be a whole chunk of material outside the bounds that you're shooting (that should otherwise lower the fitness because it's wrong) |
| 05:13.50 | brlcad | you could end up missing that geometry that was outside entirely, even though as primtivies, they actually overlap the input box |
| 05:15.43 | poolio | well i don't necessarily think that chunk should lower the fitness |
| 05:16.11 | poolio | and it actually would because of the tree depth |
| 05:16.18 | brlcad | you can probably go on the assumption that you're limiting your stuff to basic quadric surfaces so you won't encounter that case |
| 05:16.41 | brlcad | the depth could just be 0 or 1 still |
| 05:16.44 | poolio | well even with that case I feel like the GA will still be able to figure it out with the superflous material |
| 05:33.38 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/tmp/think_outside_the_box.png |
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| 07:19.31 | tessier | Wow |
| 07:19.45 | tessier | I can't believe there is an actual brlcad community now! |
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| 14:48.56 | LinuxMafia | hi |
| 14:49.12 | LinuxMafia | i am new in brlcad |
| 14:50.40 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 14:50.49 | LinuxMafia | is there a way when i press 0 , make also the raytrace to move not only the shapes? |
| 14:50.59 | LinuxMafia | sorry press z* |
| 15:39.54 | poolio | brlcad: should I increase fitness for matching missed rays? |
| 16:15.06 | poolio | helo |
| 16:16.32 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/rf041.png - Weee... I'm not too sure how well that will compare with others at Siggraph |
| 16:18.53 | poolio | wait, you can render it at 14 fps? |
| 16:19.05 | Maloeran | Sure |
| 16:19.15 | Maloeran | ( With 3 moving lights ) |
| 16:19.50 | poolio | wow |
| 16:20.02 | poolio | you might even be able to run crysis ;) |
| 16:20.31 | brlcad | tessier: howdy |
| 16:21.03 | brlcad | LinuxMafia: what do you mean? If you're in an edit mode, then pressing z will edit the model, in a view mode and it just rotates the camera/view |
| 16:21.39 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, when i raytrace |
| 16:22.02 | LinuxMafia | i want the raytarced obj to rotate instead wireframe |
| 16:22.12 | brlcad | poolio: yes! .. that's why I just said "matching" earlier -- matching means matching both segments and matching air/misses correctly |
| 16:23.58 | poolio | also there were some bugs in my logic in the fitness routine, works better now, but the results aren't much better |
| 16:24.01 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, when i press z only wireframe rotates |
| 16:26.29 | brlcad | LinuxMafia: yes, because generally it takes a while to raytrace a given frame |
| 16:26.41 | brlcad | so it only does it on demand as you request it |
| 16:27.32 | poolio | eek, i'm at 75C :\ |
| 16:27.57 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, so can i rotate the raytraced obj ? (other than rotate wireframe and raytrace again) |
| 16:28.15 | brlcad | LinuxMafia: I'd gather you simply want "shaded displays", not necessarily caring whether it's ray-traced or not |
| 16:29.02 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, i just want to whatch it rotates beacause it will be so cool |
| 16:29.37 | brlcad | yes, I know |
| 16:29.46 | brlcad | you want shaded displays |
| 16:30.18 | brlcad | mged unfortunately doesn't do shaded displays, but that is part of the new modeling interface being worked on |
| 16:32.37 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, wow that would be cool , thanks alot |
| 16:41.27 | poolio | brlcad: ok maybe not...fitness function is still giving negative numbers |
| 16:42.15 | LinuxMafia | is there any undo key? |
| 16:43.23 | poolio | nope |
| 16:48.50 | LinuxMafia | thanks so if i did something wrong |
| 16:48.58 | LinuxMafia | no way back |
| 17:05.50 | LinuxMafia | how can i switch to edit mode and viw mode |
| 17:05.51 | LinuxMafia | ? |
| 17:09.03 | LinuxMafia | any one? |
| 17:09.27 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, are you here ? |
| 17:16.18 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 17:16.18 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
| 17:20.54 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 17:26.19 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron) | |
| 17:28.12 | LinuxMafia | no matter i found it |
| 17:28.59 | poolio | LinuxMafia: have you looked through the manuals on the website? |
| 17:29.32 | LinuxMafia | poolio, this is what i am reading , but i dont have patiant |
| 17:29.46 | LinuxMafia | poolio, i am reading the tutorial |
| 17:30.07 | brlcad | heh, not having patience is going to be difficult |
| 17:30.20 | brlcad | there is a LOT to take in and learn before you can be productive |
| 17:30.29 | LinuxMafia | poolio, one problem i have shift+alt+mouse does not work for me |
| 17:30.32 | brlcad | the tutorials are big, and they only scratch the surface |
| 17:31.43 | LinuxMafia | poolio, for example when i click shift+alt+middle mouse drag it is as same as shift + left mouse |
| 17:32.16 | LinuxMafia | it looks like Alt key not be seen |
| 17:33.43 | poolio | brlcad: I think my program is losing it's mind (or maybe I am) |
| 17:35.34 | LinuxMafia | wow i found a solution for that |
| 17:35.40 | LinuxMafia | :D |
| 18:40.16 | poolio | brlcad: I'm tempted to do some major code restructuring. The results just aren't making sense and I feel like it might be because of a buffer overflow I'm missing somewhere |
| 18:51.57 | poolio | brlcad: if I don't have it workin by monday would you have the time to look through it and hopefully make it work? |
| 18:52.32 | poolio | or if not I'll probably move on and implement mutation and the other things we talked about as I don't see myself going anywhere with this. struggled the whole week and pretty much got nowhere |
| 18:55.14 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 18:59.27 | MinuteElectron | Darn, I am going away again on Sunday. |
| 18:59.49 | MinuteElectron | Won't be back at a copmuter for a week, then might not have full access to one then. |
| 18:59.59 | MinuteElectron | After that week I have to go to Ireland. |
| 19:00.19 | MinuteElectron | For two weeks. |
| 19:00.36 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How is the LDAP going? DOne any work with it yet on bzflag (just seeing if you got it going) |
| 19:03.24 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 19:26.01 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: it's coming along slowly, there've been a couple other interruptions (both here and for bz) |
| 19:26.09 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: can you enable my drupal access :) |
| 19:28.38 | ``Erik | blehhhhhhhh |
| 19:29.56 | ``Erik | brlcad: what's the deal with the tclcad bezier patch not being built anymore? |
| 19:36.57 | brlcad | it's gone |
| 19:37.00 | brlcad | no longer needed |
| 19:37.01 | brlcad | poof |
| 19:37.09 | brlcad | no longer used |
| 19:37.10 | ``Erik | between 7.10.0 and 7.10.2 ? |
| 19:37.14 | brlcad | yep |
| 19:37.37 | ``Erik | I was banging my head yesterday trying to figure out why my cvs copy built np using system tcl but the port didn't |
| 19:37.38 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:37.59 | ``Erik | <-- will introduce system tcl/tk on the fbsd port with 7.10.2 |
| 19:38.07 | brlcad | that was the reason |
| 19:38.30 | brlcad | barring some itcl/itk LIBRARY path problems, we should be good for using system tcl/tk libs now |
| 19:38.57 | ``Erik | it seems to work on fbsd with head |
| 19:39.08 | brlcad | you tried system incr? |
| 19:39.13 | ``Erik | itcl/itk in the fbsd ports is still restricted to 8.4 |
| 19:39.16 | ``Erik | so I haven't attempted |
| 19:39.20 | brlcad | k |
| 19:39.31 | ``Erik | I might create 85 versions in the next few days |
| 19:39.55 | brlcad | incrtcl's versioning is diff |
| 19:40.56 | brlcad | ah, i see what you meant |
| 19:41.19 | brlcad | yeah, they should work with 4 or 5, I don't recall having to update incrtcl for 8.5 |
| 19:42.01 | ``Erik | hum |
| 19:42.15 | ``Erik | after 7.10.2 I may bug you about appropriate testing against older incr's then |
| 19:42.17 | brlcad | if I did, it was pretty minor |
| 19:42.37 | ``Erik | but then it'd require both tk 84 and 85 on the system, due to how ports are set up :/ |
| 19:43.29 | brlcad | 8.5 final shouldn't be too far off |
| 19:43.34 | ``Erik | bleh, I'm out sick today, i shouldn't be worrying about shit like that |
| 19:43.34 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 19:57.10 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: You made an account on the wiki yet? |
| 19:57.44 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:57.52 | MinuteElectron | Cool. |
| 19:58.00 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, when? |
| 19:59.15 | brlcad | that one was just today, the druapl one was a week or so ago |
| 19:59.29 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, |
| 19:59.31 | MinuteElectron | I see. |
| 20:03.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Hmm, not sure quite what you mean by 'enable'. |
| 20:04.56 | brlcad | admin access to make mods |
| 20:05.02 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, done then. |
| 20:05.19 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: You now have top-level permissions on both the wiki and drupal. |
| 20:05.44 | MinuteElectron | Any idea who 'yogesh kumar dhiman' is? |
| 20:05.48 | brlcad | cool |
| 20:05.49 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 20:05.53 | brlcad | sounds like a spammer |
| 20:06.11 | MinuteElectron | probably |
| 20:06.43 | dtidrow_work | or somebody from india? |
| 20:07.11 | MinuteElectron | possibly |
| 20:07.20 | dtidrow_work | or maybe some other asian country... |
| 20:12.19 | brlcad | http://recaptcha.net/ would be good to have on the site |
| 20:12.58 | MinuteElectron | Indeed. |
| 20:13.39 | brlcad | it can, I installed it on a diff. site just recently :) |
| 20:14.23 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 20:20.22 | MinuteElectron | There appears to be a problem with PHP\Apache, the include path is being registered as /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org/w/ instead of my. |
| 20:24.20 | brlcad | my is the same as ftp |
| 20:24.53 | MinuteElectron | Ignore that, my bad. |
| 20:24.54 | MinuteElectron | lol |
| 20:25.08 | MinuteElectron | I mucked up the files. |
| 20:25.11 | MinuteElectron | Fixed now. |
| 20:25.37 | MinuteElectron | Wheee: http://my.brlcad.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup |
| 20:26.36 | brlcad | cool |
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| 20:58.53 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/screen.png <--- progress :) |
| 20:59.59 | IriX64 | vmware is very good |
| 21:00.07 | MinuteElectron | Is it free? |
| 21:00.13 | IriX64 | for 30 days |
| 21:00.19 | MinuteElectron | bah |
| 21:00.23 | IriX64 | heh |
| 21:00.25 | MinuteElectron | casts his eyes away |
| 21:00.41 | IriX64 | i may buy it |
| 21:00.53 | MinuteElectron | How much does it cost? |
| 21:02.02 | IriX64 | 169.00 |
| 21:02.08 | IriX64 | us |
| 21:02.12 | MinuteElectron | holy crap |
| 21:02.26 | IriX64 | thats not much |
| 21:03.20 | MinuteElectron | Perhpas it is good software. |
| 21:03.34 | IriX64 | i deal honestly if the software performs as expected i pay |
| 21:04.20 | IriX64 | registered winrar even though it continues to work past experation date :) |
| 21:04.44 | MinuteElectron | 7-zip? |
| 21:04.49 | IriX64 | and mirc and stuff |
| 21:04.59 | IriX64 | no dont have 7-zip |
| 21:05.05 | IriX64 | tried it though |
| 21:05.24 | MinuteElectron | FLOSSFTWFM |
| 21:05.31 | IriX64 | ? |
| 21:06.05 | poolio | IriX64: vmware has a free "vmware player" |
| 21:06.15 | IriX64 | whats that |
| 21:06.17 | poolio | if you created a disk image while using the trial software, you can continue using it using the free vmware player |
| 21:06.20 | MinuteElectron | Free\Libre Open Source Softeare For The Way For Me. |
| 21:06.30 | poolio | it's kind of a stripped down version that they distribute so people can use the vmx images |
| 21:06.39 | IriX64 | ahh i see |
| 21:07.04 | IriX64 | i bet you need the full version to install though right? |
| 21:07.13 | poolio | http://www.vmware.com/products/player/ |
| 21:07.14 | poolio | no |
| 21:07.21 | poolio | I mean if you are running fine right now, you can use vmware player |
| 21:07.23 | poolio | (i think) |
| 21:07.34 | IriX64 | im still installing |
| 21:08.04 | poolio | Like I know some software I've used (numenta) distributes a linux image that you can run freely using vmware player |
| 21:09.22 | MinuteElectron | IriX64: You could be our vmware distributor. |
| 21:09.27 | MinuteElectron | :P{ |
| 21:09.29 | MinuteElectron | *:P |
| 21:09.34 | IriX64 | i see just reading about it, I can't distribute what im installing though man its IBMs warp 4 |
| 21:09.53 | IriX64 | MinuteElectron :) |
| 21:10.09 | poolio | It wouldn't be that hard |
| 21:10.10 | IriX64 | legal copy by the way |
| 21:10.30 | poolio | Just setup vmware (you'd have to have it) and install something like CentOS, install BRL-CAD, and distribute the image. |
| 21:11.12 | IriX64 | for windows users you mean? whats wrong with distributing a handfull of dll'd and brlcad? |
| 21:11.19 | poolio | http://www.numenta.com/for-developers/software/nuvm.php |
| 21:11.24 | IriX64 | dlls too |
| 21:11.26 | poolio | IriX64: There isn't anything wrong as long as it works |
| 21:11.36 | IriX64 | it works man |
| 21:11.45 | IriX64 | just taking a break from it |
| 21:11.55 | poolio | :) |
| 21:16.03 | IriX64 | heh /update.png lemme know what you're thinking :) |
| 21:17.29 | IriX64 | this on workstation 6 |
| 21:40.21 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: reCAPTCHA on Drupal aint working now - I will fixor it tomorrow hopefully. But then I am gone again for another week or three (one or the other). |
| 21:40.25 | MinuteElectron | Goodnight. |
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| 00:50.51 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: sounds good, I can take a look at it as well (though I'll be working on ldap first) |
| 04:26.00 | poolio | brlcad: hmmm I want to port my code to scheme 8) |
| 04:26.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:26.28 | brlcad | you been talking to ``Erik or something |
| 04:27.07 | poolio | naw. I've just been meaning to learn scheme and ran through the first bit of SICP and it looks enticing |
| 04:27.41 | poolio | ent.hispeed.ch� |
| 04:27.42 | poolio | |20:11| � yukonbob ��> �n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net� |
| 04:27.42 | poolio | |20:52| <@ brlcad> MinuteElectron: sounds good, I can take a look at it as well (though I'll be working on ldap first) |
| 04:27.45 | poolio | Day changed to 28 Jul 2007 |
| 04:27.48 | poolio | christ |
| 04:27.57 | poolio | i need to fix my synaptics driver |
| 04:29.58 | poolio | okee, fixed :D |
| 04:49.45 | yukonbob | poolio: what code do you want to port to scheme? |
| 04:56.52 | brlcad | his genetic algorithm code |
| 04:56.56 | brlcad | beset |
| 05:03.50 | yukonbob | hey brlcad ;) |
| 05:04.26 | brlcad | howdy bob |
| 05:04.28 | yukonbob | interesting timing, cause I've been thinking of getting into scheme for some time too, and finally made a project for myself to play with it... |
| 05:05.10 | yukonbob | interfacing guile w/ silc lib... and that made me think of guile bindings for brlcad ;) |
| 05:05.26 | brlcad | swig bindings would be better |
| 05:05.32 | brlcad | then you'd get guile for free |
| 05:05.57 | yukonbob | there you go -- swig is on my list of things to learn more about... |
| 05:06.12 | yukonbob | how's it going sean? |
| 05:10.05 | brlcad | pretty good |
| 05:10.22 | brlcad | almost time to get ready for siggraph in a week |
| 05:10.27 | yukonbob | !nice |
| 05:10.34 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: inform the T2 package maintainer of linux releases |
| 05:10.41 | yukonbob | how long is that event? |
| 05:10.47 | brlcad | trying to get a new release out as well as finish up another code event beforehand |
| 05:10.52 | brlcad | it's about a week |
| 05:11.34 | yukonbob | how integrated is the in-memory format <--> renderer |
| 05:11.51 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 05:11.55 | yukonbob | ie: how tough would it be to use povray (for example) to render brlcad scene. |
| 05:13.24 | brlcad | wouldn't be too hard, but easiest would be to write a g-pov geometry exporter |
| 05:13.31 | brlcad | povray's format is pretty straightforward |
| 05:13.39 | yukonbob | or the renderer that ships w/ blender, or any arbitrary renderer... |
| 05:13.45 | brlcad | it'd be one of the easiest exporters to write |
| 05:13.50 | yukonbob | cool. |
| 05:14.00 | brlcad | likewise for an importer |
| 05:14.21 | brlcad | povray actually has loads of good overlap with our format as they also support CSG |
| 05:14.30 | brlcad | and implicit primitives |
| 05:15.00 | brlcad | the only difference would be dealing with non-solid geometry (povray will render non-solid, brl-cad does not) |
| 05:15.33 | yukonbob | right, pov ray generates shells, basically, iirc. |
| 05:15.40 | brlcad | need explicit format geometry to do most of the cel rendering techniques |
| 05:15.51 | brlcad | otherwise, something like rtedge is in that direction |
| 05:16.43 | yukonbob | I was playing w/ rtedge other week, and it was generating lots of horizontal artifacts (ie: horizontal lines sweeping off the curves)... is that typical? |
| 05:16.58 | brlcad | those povray shells could probably come in as nmg geometry, or even plate mode bots (which allows for thin-surfaces) |
| 05:17.50 | brlcad | no, that's not -- that was a bug in a particular version, if it's what I'm thinking you saw |
| 05:17.54 | yukonbob | you've lost me there brlcad, but no matter... I've still got dem conversion and docbook before I get involved with anything like renderers... |
| 05:17.57 | brlcad | should be fixed |
| 05:18.41 | brlcad | ahh :) |
| 05:18.55 | brlcad | hopefully 8.5 final isn't too far away |
| 05:19.09 | yukonbob | gotta be Real Soon Now(tm) |
| 05:19.15 | brlcad | that was part of the premise of moving to it, though need for critcial features too |
| 05:19.41 | yukonbob | oh, it'll all work out for certain... it's just a goofy transition atm |
| 05:19.49 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:19.59 | brlcad | first time we've ever had/needed to |
| 05:20.27 | brlcad | usually way more cautious/hesitant on the upgrades |
| 05:21.44 | brlcad | if you get to the point of needing commit access, just let me know |
| 05:22.31 | brlcad | the door is fairly open to new devs so long as I can continue to review all commits with enough diligence |
| 05:22.45 | yukonbob | will do -- soon, hopefully, I'll be able to dedicate some more contiguous chunks of time... |
| 05:23.24 | yukonbob | brlcad is still managed by cvs, no? |
| 05:24.24 | brlcad | that will be changed before the year's end, but yes |
| 05:25.14 | yukonbob | is there anonymous checkout avail? |
| 05:25.15 | brlcad | yeah, still on cvs for the time being |
| 05:25.18 | brlcad | ~cadcvs |
| 05:25.18 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 05:25.32 | yukonbob | nice |
| 05:28.42 | yukonbob | brlcad: you a schemer/lisper? |
| 05:28.59 | brlcad | I've written some lisp over the years |
| 05:32.49 | brlcad | these days, alas mostly limited to emacs snippets but it's good enough to satisfy the itch |
| 05:33.14 | brlcad | for a long while, I've wanted to have a BRL-CAD major mode for .g files that lets you browse the geometry contents (ala tar mode) |
| 05:45.30 | yukonbob | sigraph starts next week (monday)? |
| 05:45.56 | yukonbob | *siggraph |
| 05:46.06 | poolio | brlcad: when are you gone? |
| 05:50.34 | yukonbob | ahh --- 6-9Aug |
| 05:51.38 | brlcad | starts on sat/sun next week |
| 05:51.49 | poolio | eek |
| 05:51.50 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/.cvsignore tk/unix/.cvsignore): ignore tcl/tk lib products |
| 05:52.15 | brlcad | poolio: yeah, eek :) |
| 05:52.45 | poolio | brlcad: I was hoping to be done work before the 10th :\ |
| 05:52.56 | yukonbob | brlcad: are you looking forward to anything in particular when you attend? |
| 05:53.06 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, the whole thing :) |
| 05:53.12 | yukonbob | lol |
| 05:53.13 | brlcad | siggraph is a great conference |
| 05:53.22 | brlcad | so much to see and do, it's really "big" |
| 05:53.33 | poolio | any booth babes like at E3? |
| 05:53.38 | poolio | *they used to have at E3 |
| 05:53.52 | brlcad | once the expo starts, yeah some :) |
| 05:54.16 | brlcad | though the expo is only during the latter half, and not nearly as crazy booth-babe-wise as E3 |
| 05:55.23 | brlcad | a great balance of deeply technical content with artistic taste and entertainment |
| 05:55.36 | poolio | cool. I'm jealous |
| 06:00.52 | yukonbob | bring us back T-shirts: "My friend went to siggraph 2007 and all I got was this lousey t-shirt" |
| 06:07.47 | brlcad | I get a shirt every year :) |
| 07:03.56 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: .htaccess are re-enabled |
| 07:15.37 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h population.h): fitness function should be working, so selection must be broken |
| 07:17.36 | *** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754591.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 07:18.19 | poolio | brlcad: errrr |
| 07:18.26 | poolio | http://poolio.org/files/bad_convergence.png |
| 07:19.18 | poolio | but I must sleep, I probably won't be around til late tomorrow |
| 07:19.26 | poolio | good night/mornin' |
| 08:48.19 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-231-247.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 10:06.53 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.113.199) | |
| 11:27.43 | *** join/#brlcad andy__ (n=andy@82-43-116-127.cable.ubr01.mort.blueyonder.co.uk) | |
| 11:28.13 | andy__ | Hello |
| 11:45.14 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 12:53.51 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Will sort everything out in 1 or 3 weeks time. |
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| 20:07.47 | Maloeran | This is a strange question, but... does someone know how video playback in mplayer can take only 0.1% of one processor core? Can it really be that Nvidia drivers provide hardware mpeg4/xvid decoding? I can't really see any other explanation |
| 20:11.23 | ``Erik | um, given that mpeg (and jpeg) are based on breaking small areas (like 8x8) into simple regions with parametric systems (like, 16 different variants, iirc) |
| 20:11.55 | ``Erik | I think it'd be totally possible to make a very simple ogl accelerlated mpeg/jpeg display using 16 textures and gauroud shading for the color aspect... |
| 20:12.19 | Maloeran | As far as I know, Xv provides hardware color space conversion and scaling, there's no decoding involved |
| 20:12.30 | ``Erik | Xv != GL |
| 20:12.41 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 20:12.53 | Maloeran | Indeed, but I'm looking at mplayer using 0.1% of one core just using the Xv driver |
| 20:12.57 | ``Erik | at one point, I was going to write an ogl mpeg decoder, but *shrug* |
| 20:13.04 | ``Erik | fast cpu's, I guess? |
| 20:13.14 | ``Erik | mpeg is a pretty simple format |
| 20:13.17 | Maloeran | While I'm told that Mark has trouble playing back high-definition videos on his dual-core laptop |
| 20:13.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:13.59 | ``Erik | winderz has trouble doing something simple like, y'know, booting |
| 20:14.00 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:14.01 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:14.19 | Maloeran | :) Meh |
| 20:14.36 | Maloeran | I gave him 1024x768 videos, about 1mb per second of compressed data, and he says it's jerky |
| 20:14.52 | Maloeran | And mplayer doesn't get above 0.1% of cpu use when decoding here, I really don't get it |
| 20:15.01 | ``Erik | mebbe the codec is the biggie? |
| 20:15.28 | Maloeran | I used the msmpegv4 codec on purpose, the Microsoft variant of mpeg4 |
| 20:15.30 | ``Erik | I would suspect that standardized codecs would be disadvantaged on winderz, while ms codecs would groove right along |
| 20:15.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:15.43 | Maloeran | So that windows users can play the video without having to install codecs |
| 20:15.56 | ``Erik | is that the usual form for .avi files? |
| 20:16.17 | Maloeran | It's a common codec for .avi files, yes |
| 20:16.32 | ``Erik | tell mark to quit running all those viruses and porn shit? :D |
| 20:16.45 | Maloeran | I sent him high quality x264 videos and such long ago and he never managed to play them |
| 20:16.47 | ``Erik | is he using like a p166 laptop? O.o |
| 20:16.57 | Maloeran | A Core 2 Duo laptop |
| 20:17.09 | ``Erik | erm, so a mac, not winderz? |
| 20:17.15 | Maloeran | Oh, it's windows |
| 20:17.25 | ``Erik | those use core duo's now? heh |
| 20:17.34 | Maloeran | He also has Linux installed although he doesn't know how to use it |
| 20:17.45 | ``Erik | pointy hairs |
| 20:18.00 | Maloeran | Anyhow, I'm a bit annoyed because I have no idea how to fix that "problem" |
| 20:18.16 | Maloeran | I don't suppose you have any thoughts? |
| 20:18.21 | ``Erik | ask him to use a slightly less inferior machine? hehehhe |
| 20:18.37 | ``Erik | I'd suspect he has other processes gobbling cpu at the same time |
| 20:18.40 | Maloeran | It's a good machine, I have seen it. I have no idea where the slowness comes from |
| 20:18.48 | ``Erik | so the winderz 'process manager' might provide clues |
| 20:19.01 | ``Erik | <-- has no simple 'quick fix' |
| 20:19.43 | ``Erik | probably outlook or word running some ugly macro, heh |
| 20:19.55 | Maloeran | msmpeg4-v2 decoding, very simple stuff, just 1024x768 at 20 frames per second, 1mb of compressed data to read per second... I'm sure I could run that on my amd-k6! |
| 20:20.31 | Maloeran | Mmmhm, carbohydrates |
| 20:20.48 | ``Erik | 'cept smothered in shredded bacon and cheese and sour cream, heh |
| 20:20.48 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:20.50 | ``Erik | mmm, fat. |
| 20:20.58 | Maloeran | Oh. :) |
| 20:21.37 | Maloeran | Is it possible that windows wouldn't have video drivers installed and use Vesa or something? I thought they had passed that stage |
| 20:22.11 | Maloeran | Perhaps the machine has trouble pushing 60mb of data to video memory per second *shivers* |
| 20:22.21 | louipc | that's unfortunate |
| 20:25.02 | Maloeran | Okay, it's confirmed, the video plays smoothly on an AMD-k6 333mhz with windows 98. But not a manager's Core 2 Duo laptop |
| 20:25.15 | Maloeran | not on* a |
| 20:26.04 | louipc | no way! |
| 20:26.15 | Maloeran | As I said, I don't understand it either |
| 20:26.21 | louipc | Vista? hehhe |
| 20:26.35 | ``Erik | um, perhaps the driver cofnig is all effed up and he's doing it all sw? |
| 20:26.37 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 20:26.41 | ``Erik | with multi-copy buffers? |
| 20:26.43 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 20:26.59 | ``Erik | or perhaps the machine figured out the operator has pointy hair and is being mean? :D |
| 20:27.15 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/m1a2.avi - Here's the video if anyone happens to be on windows |
| 20:27.29 | Maloeran | Eheh Erik, I like that hypothesis :) |
| 20:28.43 | louipc | how about if I'm in Linux? |
| 20:29.24 | Maloeran | It should play very smoothly as far as I can see, 0.1% of cpu use here |
| 20:32.30 | louipc | ~30% for me but I have an old machine |
| 20:36.15 | ``Erik | played without noticable cpu utilization usin gVLC here, on a powerbook pro 2.0 |
| 20:36.30 | ``Erik | with 'world of warcraft' running, to boot... |
| 20:36.39 | louipc | hah |
| 20:36.47 | ``Erik | two processessors, 3 lights, first hit? |
| 20:36.49 | Maloeran | I really wonder how the video decoding can be so cheap, it's puzzling me |
| 20:37.07 | louipc | mine's a 866MHz PIII |
| 20:37.14 | Maloeran | That's correct. The two processors got 4 cores each though |
| 20:37.27 | ``Erik | ah, so that's an 8 cor epass to push that 20 fps |
| 20:37.42 | ``Erik | and I was about to be impressed :> |
| 20:37.59 | Maloeran | I'm sorry I wasn't up to the task :) |
| 20:38.30 | ``Erik | 20 fps at that rez on even 8 cores is not trivial |
| 20:38.41 | louipc | not quite a regular desktop |
| 20:38.43 | ``Erik | imagine running 1/10 the tirangles, like an ogl came |
| 20:38.45 | ``Erik | game |
| 20:39.01 | ``Erik | (that's the shell m1 from the cinema site, right?) |
| 20:39.19 | Maloeran | Yes, it's the same M1 model Justin gave me about two years ago |
| 20:39.27 | ``Erik | probably NOT the best model to be showing around, btw, I think it's a limited distribution dealie |
| 20:39.49 | ``Erik | yanking the havoc or hilux might be safer :) |
| 20:39.50 | Maloeran | Hum. I was told I could "show" it around, but not distribute it |
| 20:39.59 | Maloeran | Where can I get these? |
| 20:40.00 | ``Erik | by justin... |
| 20:40.21 | ``Erik | I surspect that he was techinically funding when he 'distributed' it to you |
| 20:40.32 | ``Erik | havoc is in the brlcad repo, unencumbered |
| 20:41.01 | ``Erik | I believe the hilux has been approved for unencumbered distribution, but hasn't actually been shoved in the repo yet... video of it should be no issue, though |
| 20:41.13 | ``Erik | given subcontractor relation |
| 20:41.47 | Maloeran | Thanks, I'll have a look at the Havoc |
| 20:43.25 | Maloeran | Oh. Video decoding uses XvMC, for which there are Nvidia drivers for hardware decoding. Neat stuff |
| 20:44.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:44.18 | ``Erik | cool |
| 20:46.07 | Maloeran | Eh yes, looks like it has already beenn done |
| 20:46.55 | ``Erik | hum, that page is all like 6 years old |
| 20:47.52 | ``Erik | in fact, that first item is implemented in gtk1.2 |
| 20:48.14 | ``Erik | and goes back to gtk 0.30 |
| 20:48.17 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 20:48.28 | ``Erik | '96ish |
| 20:48.31 | ``Erik | mebbe '97 |
| 20:49.12 | ``Erik | the salt and cheese on those taters are so making me want more salt and cheese !#~! O.o grar. |
| 20:50.02 | Maloeran | Mmhm :). I'm just curious, you kept your university user so many years after you left? |
| 20:50.16 | ``Erik | heh, anti-kosher... pig mixed with cheese, sheesh |
| 20:50.23 | Maloeran | As I assume math.missouristate.edu is where you once stsudied |
| 20:50.25 | Maloeran | studied, too |
| 20:50.44 | ``Erik | yes, when at the uni, I volunteered tutoring to a professor in the math dept, and still aid him in trickier sysadmin duties |
| 20:50.54 | Maloeran | http://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=MILITARY/&name=Y4937_Biotank - That is one mean looking tank |
| 20:50.57 | ``Erik | in return, I have an account as long as te dept has a machine |
| 20:51.23 | Maloeran | Nice |
| 20:51.35 | ``Erik | same guy who gave me the 2 hour crash course in omfg real quaternions |
| 20:51.49 | ``Erik | which is why I have a slightly different view of them than your typical ogl coder |
| 20:52.26 | ``Erik | um, I MIGHT be able to get you some other models, like a real t62 (with guts) |
| 20:52.32 | ``Erik | I'll have to talk to people, though |
| 20:52.40 | ``Erik | and it'd come in BRL-CAD format |
| 20:53.00 | Maloeran | *nods* I understood quaternions after staring at code using quats for 2 weeks in high school, and just playing with the numbers a lot. It's not a typical approach |
| 20:53.13 | Maloeran | It's fine, I got a g2rtgg converter |
| 20:53.38 | ``Erik | I kinda got a rough overview of a coders view of quats... then went to the prof and got the mathematical background, so a lot of the weird coder shit became obvious |
| 20:53.54 | ``Erik | like groking that it's 3 imaginary orthogenal axis with a real scalar |
| 20:54.11 | Maloeran | Yes, I got that part. I have very little mathematical background |
| 20:54.34 | Maloeran | "A proof? What's that? Meh, just write the code to test 1 billion cases over the night." |
| 20:55.06 | ``Erik | ah, but a proof isn't worth 1billion tests, it's worth infinity tests |
| 20:55.42 | Maloeran | Sure so, but something can be "true enough" for me after 1 billion cases :) |
| 20:55.46 | ``Erik | program provability is a skeery but awesome path in computer science |
| 20:56.08 | ``Erik | and the difference is between "good enough" and "omfg right" |
| 20:56.20 | Maloeran | Eheh, well put |
| 20:56.33 | ``Erik | if you're painting a display for a vidoe game or sim, whatever, but if peoples lives are on the line, i'd rather have a provable system |
| 20:56.37 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:57.07 | Maloeran | True. I'm just definitely not a mathematician |
| 20:57.48 | ``Erik | me, iether... I'm just old, and becoming more and more concerned with 'critical' software and the reprecussions of an oops |
| 20:58.08 | Maloeran | Many years ago, I solved integrals by observing relations between solving integrals by brute-force and the original equation. I didn't know the background, I didn't even know what the word "integral" was or meant, but it worked for me |
| 20:58.30 | ``Erik | integrals are trivial to brute force |
| 20:58.52 | ``Erik | the notion of "an area under a curve" is easily understnadable by just about anyone |
| 20:58.53 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:59.00 | Maloeran | Sure, and I used that to obtain the real integral, from which deductions can be made to directly obtain any integral |
| 20:59.41 | ``Erik | of course, for some curves, you can only approximate given a statement of range.. :) |
| 20:59.58 | ``Erik | without dropping to a base numerical solver |
| 21:00.34 | Maloeran | I'm still very much biased towards "brute-forcing" my way through problems, in order to find better solutions, rather than mathematically proving anything |
| 21:00.47 | ``Erik | <-- has a fistful of solvers in haskell and scheme... |
| 21:00.50 | louipc | :( |
| 21:01.04 | ``Erik | and my solvers generally tend to be 2-5 lines of code and work faster than the equivelant 3 pages of java or c++ |
| 21:01.08 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:02.21 | Maloeran | In a programmer's world, maths are impure anyway, all numbers got limited precision. True mathematial proofs can end up false when applied |
| 21:02.36 | ``Erik | not true |
| 21:02.48 | ``Erik | there are mechanisms to deal with true numbers |
| 21:03.02 | ``Erik | 'scheme' does it automatically, and for C, there are libraries such as gpm |
| 21:03.24 | ``Erik | the issue is if you're willing to pay the cost for the accuracy |
| 21:03.28 | ``Erik | and that's an engineering decision :) |
| 21:04.41 | Maloeran | Are libraries such as gpm strictly correct even with irrational numbers? |
| 21:04.57 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.170.100) | |
| 21:05.27 | ``Erik | I believe so... I think gpm deforms to an unlimited form when the ieee format is insufficient |
| 21:05.41 | ``Erik | so it's slow and has teh ability to gobble buttloads of memory |
| 21:05.49 | ``Erik | but will give you omfg right values |
| 21:05.53 | Maloeran | Sure, but the square root of 2.0 is never going to be exact unless you store it sqrt(2) directly |
| 21:06.12 | Maloeran | Meaning the complexity of your number becomes a long equation which is totally impractical |
| 21:06.24 | ``Erik | <-- unsure of exactly how gpm handles that |
| 21:06.55 | Maloeran | I don't know either, but I suspect that even gpm wouldn't be strictly "true" mathematically speaking. True proofs can end up false |
| 21:07.13 | ``Erik | be interesting to explore that |
| 21:07.16 | Maloeran | http://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=MILITARY/&name=Y4937_Biotank - Ah, I really like that model, it's just so ugly! I think I'll send Mark a video of it |
| 21:07.42 | ``Erik | is that the same on you sent earlier? |
| 21:08.03 | Maloeran | Same url, yes |
| 21:08.08 | ``Erik | no one dues fugly like the french *sigh* |
| 21:08.14 | ``Erik | s/u/o/ |
| 21:09.06 | ``Erik | germans may have fat chicks with horns on their helmets, but the rench have... that... |
| 21:09.06 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:09.08 | Maloeran | On the battlefield, I would laugh if faced with such a vehicule. It could be a terribly weapon |
| 21:09.17 | Maloeran | terrible* |
| 21:09.51 | ``Erik | but I bet the back of the vehicle is ok to look at... f it's french, that's the part any opposing force would see... O:-) |
| 21:09.58 | Maloeran | I'm reaally not finding where the M1 came from |
| 21:10.18 | louipc | wtf is that? haha |
| 21:10.27 | ``Erik | then it's probably a model worth avoiding :( |
| 21:11.00 | ``Erik | even though it's legit and shit, ti could still cause issues when small minded people make idiotic assumptions |
| 21:11.13 | ``Erik | (like that no non-US person could ever do any tech worth doing... a common but WRONG view) |
| 21:11.43 | Maloeran | That's a... common view? |
| 21:11.55 | ``Erik | among small minded people, yes |
| 21:12.11 | ``Erik | I have no other explaination for the fucktarded export laws in the us |
| 21:13.47 | Maloeran | I'm still amazed by how so many americans know little about the world out there, it's a big planet |
| 21:13.59 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 21:14.12 | ``Erik | I've talked to equally ignorant people from many other countries, including canuckia |
| 21:15.04 | ``Erik | people around toronot, sheesh |
| 21:15.06 | ``Erik | all kinds of special |
| 21:15.07 | ``Erik | :) |
| 21:15.25 | louipc | :O |
| 21:15.44 | Maloeran | I think there's just too much misplaced patriotism, heavily fed to the population by the medias, it's kind of scary |
| 21:16.19 | ``Erik | that's the vocal minority, I hope |
| 21:16.31 | Maloeran | Patriotism blinds people to the fact, it narrows their mind. It's socially harmful, yet it's seen as a good thing down there |
| 21:17.25 | Maloeran | I hope so too, Erik, I certainly do |
| 21:20.11 | louipc | there was an issue with citizens of certain countries doing work on US helicopters |
| 21:20.34 | louipc | where bell helicopters had to lay them off, I think they were still canadian citizens too |
| 21:22.03 | Maloeran | Yes, I remember hearing about this. You once deported a canadian citizen travelling to the states, an university professor, to Syria... because he had dual-citizenship with Syria. That was weird |
| 21:22.28 | louipc | rcmp tipped off us authorities, mistakenly though |
| 21:24.16 | Maloeran | Erik or anyone else, what would you recommend as way to find out the "top level" region list to pass to db_walk_tree() to be able to read out a model? |
| 21:24.35 | ``Erik | 'tops'? |
| 21:24.37 | Maloeran | I'm a bit tired of having to look into the .g files for some kind of appropriately named string |
| 21:24.48 | ``Erik | mged -c file.g tops |
| 21:24.51 | Maloeran | How would I do it from code? |
| 21:25.06 | Maloeran | This is for the g2rtgg extractor, which is based from Lee's code |
| 21:25.12 | ``Erik | um, I don't remember, heh, but the 'tops' command sould be fairly easy to find |
| 21:25.27 | ``Erik | I'd imagine it's a variant of the 'ls' code |
| 21:26.52 | ``Erik | an os unto itself.. *cough* |
| 21:31.46 | Maloeran | Hum, I guess I'll look into that. It's kind of annoying this task of having to find the name of whatever you are looking for in the file, I wish I could just say "all of it" |
| 21:33.04 | ``Erik | the tops command gives you the top level entities |
| 21:33.22 | ``Erik | given those and the ability to traverse recursively, you have 'all of it' |
| 21:33.41 | ``Erik | you'd have to look into the specific implementation, though :) I dunno off teh top of my head |
| 21:34.37 | Maloeran | Yes, I'm trying to make sense of librt/wdb_obj.c |
| 21:40.41 | Maloeran | I'm not actually finding any Bags Of Triangles in havoc.g, I guess the geometry would have to be triangulated, somehow |
| 21:45.37 | ``Erik | yeah, the nmg routines |
| 22:10.17 | tessier_ | How does brl-cad compare to something like autocad? |
| 22:10.39 | tessier_ | I am looking for something to design model airplanes and do some solid modeling. |
| 22:11.10 | tessier_ | Calculate surface areas, make sure internal components fit, plot patterns for gluing onto materials for cutting etc. |
| 22:13.22 | louipc | yeah I think BRL-CAD is good for that sort of thing |
| 22:13.28 | louipc | not really for drafting though |
| 22:13.35 | ``Erik | not so much plotting patterns |
| 22:13.41 | ``Erik | but figurng out if things fit, yeah... |
| 22:13.51 | tessier_ | Well, it can print out a 2d diagram onto paper right? |
| 22:13.57 | louipc | not really |
| 22:14.06 | louipc | (drafting) |
| 22:14.18 | tessier_ | hrm...how can it do all these other things but not handle that? |
| 22:14.24 | ``Erik | it's more an analysis tool, not a building tool |
| 22:14.25 | louipc | no clue haha |
| 22:15.36 | ``Erik | the kinda core intent is to have a good 'complete' model, pop a ray through it and get a solid understanding of what that ray hits, the depth of the hit, in and out normals, ... a 'segment list', so drafting shtuff just ain't there |
| 22:16.24 | ``Erik | (for the last twenty or so years, every dollar has been thrown at figuring out how bullets go through things, not anything construction oriented... so it's weak in that area... feel free to improve it, it's open source :D ) |
| 22:16.39 | tessier_ | So Linux still has no good drafting tools? :( |
| 22:17.04 | louipc | tessier_: qcad is what people use pretty much |
| 22:17.05 | tessier_ | ``Erik: Yes although full scale stuff is a possibility also. |
| 22:17.15 | tessier_ | louipc: Funny. I used to host the qcad website. :) |
| 22:17.20 | louipc | if you're familiar with autocad qcad is easy to pick up |
| 22:17.22 | ``Erik | <-- cut off a finger doing r/c, wants to get back into it... mebbe doing ellectrics |
| 22:17.22 | louipc | hahah |
| 22:17.25 | tessier_ | But it has always seemed like a toy to me. But that was years ago. I should check it out again. |
| 22:17.28 | tessier_ | ``Erik: Electrics rock now. |
| 22:17.34 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/finger/ |
| 22:17.37 | ``Erik | so I've heard |
| 22:17.45 | tessier_ | louipc: In fact, I convinced the qcad author to go GPL. But in 95 or so. |
| 22:17.56 | louipc | yeah I'm not so much a fan but, it works I guess |
| 22:18.02 | ``Erik | one of my buddies, the guy who did the oepnnurbs shtuff (jlowenz) is into electrics... |
| 22:18.04 | tessier_ | Can I import things from qcad to brl-cad in any way? |
| 22:18.09 | louipc | dxf |
| 22:18.22 | ``Erik | 2d things in dxf don't xfer to brlcad so very well |
| 22:18.25 | tessier_ | I am into gliders and electrics. I used to do gas way back in high school (early 90's) but the electric stuff is so much better now. |
| 22:18.57 | louipc | tessier_: nice about the GPL :D |
| 22:19.07 | ``Erik | I tried gas in '90 or so, backed off, did it again in '03/'04, hwacked my finger and have been too chickenshit to bothr since |
| 22:19.28 | tessier_ | ``Erik: You will prefer electric then. You probably whacked your finger starting or adjusting mixture right? |
| 22:19.45 | ``Erik | adjusting one of twingy's planes, yes |
| 22:19.48 | louipc | :D |
| 22:19.50 | ``Erik | after I lost one |
| 22:19.52 | tessier_ | Electric is so much nicer. You never have the engine sitting around idling and you have no problem with mixture or starting. |
| 22:20.02 | ``Erik | that's why I've been thinking about it :) |
| 22:20.16 | louipc | and you can use it for stealth reconnaisance? |
| 22:20.18 | tessier_ | Hopefully a combination of qcad/brl-cad can do what I need |
| 22:20.18 | ``Erik | but the ~600 drive cost ... unless it's dropped a lot |
| 22:20.29 | tessier_ | ``Erik: No way dude. Get a speed 400 powered plane. Dirt cheap. |
| 22:20.38 | tessier_ | $10 for the motor, maybe $40 for the ESC, I don't recall. |
| 22:20.43 | tessier_ | Another $20 for a battery and you have a whole power system. |
| 22:20.46 | ``Erik | if you can hack C and tcl, please feel free to 'fix' brlcad, yo |
| 22:20.48 | louipc | whoa |
| 22:20.51 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD rather |
| 22:20.52 | tessier_ | Actually motors might be way cheaper now. |
| 22:20.59 | ``Erik | brlcad might not appreciate being fixed :> |
| 22:21.04 | louipc | ``Erik: that does get confusing haha |
| 22:21.07 | tessier_ | ``Erik: That's another thing: I kinda wish brl-cad were scriptable in lisp or something like autocad. |
| 22:21.12 | tessier_ | Doing things in C these days is just silly. |
| 22:21.13 | ``Erik | oh, me too |
| 22:21.16 | tessier_ | But I understand brlcad is very old. |
| 22:21.18 | ``Erik | I'm a scheme geek |
| 22:21.24 | ``Erik | but BRL-CAD is married to tcl |
| 22:21.37 | tessier_ | ``Erik: Me too although I have never really done anythign with scheme. I've read the Little Schemer and a few other books though. |
| 22:21.38 | louipc | tessier_: you can script in Tcl |
| 22:21.49 | tessier_ | louipc: Yeah, tcl isn't too bad. |
| 22:21.54 | ``Erik | there's been talk about hooking it into 'swig', but so much of the math shtuff is macro based, it becomes undoable |
| 22:21.54 | tessier_ | I'm just not as familiar with it. |
| 22:22.35 | ``Erik | I'd imagine that it wouldn't be TOO terribly difficult to develope a lithp variant on tcl |
| 22:23.01 | ``Erik | turing complete is turing complete, y'know |
| 22:23.42 | louipc | Linux is silly |
| 22:23.49 | ``Erik | your mom is silly |
| 22:24.02 | louipc | :O |
| 22:24.08 | tessier_ | Maloeran: For the most part that is true. Programmer time and buffer overruns are expensive. |
| 22:24.16 | ``Erik | C is good for low level things... *shrug* linux is a hair better than winderz, not bsd cool, but *shrug* :) |
| 22:24.24 | louipc | a hair! |
| 22:24.36 | tessier_ | ``Erik: The vast majority of stuff is not low level. |
| 22:24.52 | louipc | yeah true |
| 22:24.53 | ``Erik | I completely agree, tessier... but mal was about ready to drop a brick in his shorts there ;> |
| 22:25.10 | ``Erik | <-- tends to use ruby or scheme as a first shot for most things these days |
| 22:25.33 | tessier_ | ``Erik: Only because he has been coding C for years and cannot appreciate how much more efficient higher level languages are because they represent a threat to the usefulness of his existing knowledge. :) |
| 22:25.43 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 22:25.46 | ``Erik | uh oh |
| 22:25.52 | ``Erik | don't say nothin' 'bout assembly, mal will pop! |
| 22:25.53 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:25.55 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 22:25.55 | tessier_ | Efficient in terms of programmer time (and therefore money) and darn near as efficient in terms of cpu cycles too. |
| 22:26.17 | Maloeran | tessier_, buffer overruns is a silly programmer mistake, bad programmers shouldn't use C to begin with. Some complex tasks are actually less bothersome to perform in C, for it really lets you do what you want to do |
| 22:26.18 | ``Erik | it's a matter of how assess value to developer time |
| 22:26.26 | ``Erik | ooooooold people tend to put a lot of value on time |
| 22:26.31 | ``Erik | young folk tend to view it as 'free' |
| 22:26.39 | Maloeran | Plus of course, efficiency of good C code can hardly be compared with any scripting language |
| 22:26.39 | tessier_ | Assembly is fun for understanding how architectures work and for programming microcontrollers. |
| 22:27.17 | tessier_ | Maloeran: But programmers aren't perfect. They have been making that mistake for decades. Even the best ones. They are inevitable. |
| 22:28.06 | Maloeran | Indeed. And that's why good Operating Systems have some security features, so that we won't pay a global hit in performance just in case there's a buffer overrun somewhere |
| 22:28.20 | ``Erik | sometimes, I look at some of their stuff and go "fucking brilliant", other times, I go "wtff" |
| 22:28.42 | ``Erik | heh, so you're using obsd these days, mal? :> *duck* |
| 22:28.53 | tessier_ | Critical loops that get executed zillions of times can be in C and assembly. Anything else, including word processors and the like which hardly ever use cpu and spend all their time waiting on programmer input, should probably be in a higher level language. |
| 22:29.06 | tessier_ | That goes for mail servers, dns servers, etc also. They spend all their time waiting on IO. |
| 22:29.20 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:29.31 | tessier_ | Link to a C implementation of your hashtable function or whatever and do all the other silly stuff in a HLL |
| 22:29.38 | Maloeran | That I agree, languages should be used for what they are best suited for. There's still much room for C out there |
| 22:29.55 | louipc | yep |
| 22:30.01 | tessier_ | There's tons of room for C. But I think it is currently taking up more room than it rightfully deserves. :) |
| 22:30.09 | tessier_ | Fortunately that is changing though. |
| 22:30.10 | ``Erik | code it in scheme, when you find a bit of scheme that you simply can't make fast enough, rewrite it in C... when you find a bit of C that can't possibly be rewritten to be fast enough, rewrite it in asm... if you find a bit of asm that can't possibly be rewritten to be fast enough, go back to the drawing board, yo |
| 22:30.21 | tessier_ | ``Erik: Exactly. FFI for the win! |
| 22:30.46 | ``Erik | <-- feels that c++ and java simply don't belong... they're tools to limit the damage incompetents can do, not tools to extend the ability of competents :( |
| 22:30.51 | Maloeran | I usually go back to the drawing board before the assembly step, but good enough :) |
| 22:31.14 | tessier_ | ``Erik: Agreed. I don't see much good use for java. But lots of people are brainwashed with it. |
| 22:31.18 | ``Erik | (and limited incompetence sucks compared to a little competence *cough*) |
| 22:31.35 | tessier_ | C++ sure seemed cool way back when and even I would have agreed it was a good way to go once upon a time but I have wisened up since then. |
| 22:31.41 | Maloeran | tessier_, I think C should be the language of choice for all core libraries and related low-level software, I'm actually worried that it's less being used for new software these days |
| 22:31.57 | ``Erik | there're bits of jabba I like, I think it's better than c++, but there're bits I dont' like... and in practice, it's grossly abused |
| 22:32.04 | tessier_ | Maloeran: I guess it depends on where you draw the line for low-level. |
| 22:32.39 | ``Erik | <-- would rather have a boffo scheme or smalltalk core library than a good C one... *shrug* :) |
| 22:33.05 | ``Erik | mebbe I'm just sick in the head |
| 22:33.16 | louipc | they force java in school |
| 22:34.08 | Maloeran | Sometimes, even C seems too high level for me. Compilers are so incompetent, when one cares about performance |
| 22:34.17 | ``Erik | when I wasi n college (the second time), the were migrating to jabba the last year I was there... |
| 22:34.19 | Maloeran | It's so tempting to just get down in assembly for an instant >30% performance boost |
| 22:34.28 | Maloeran | I think I should do that before Siggraph |
| 22:34.46 | ``Erik | 30% with no change in linearality can't comopete with even a loss of static and improved 'big oh' |
| 22:34.46 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:34.51 | tessier_ | Maloeran: One rarely needs to care about performance these days. A few microseconds different in my code execution time matters little to me. :) |
| 22:35.13 | tessier_ | I tend to do a lot of text processing, system administrator type stuff, network IO, web applications, etc. |
| 22:35.16 | ``Erik | "my assembly form outruns this high level one, up to 10 memory locations... *cough*" |
| 22:35.22 | tessier_ | IO is always the bottleneck before cpu in my projects. |
| 22:35.46 | tessier_ | For something like raytracing I can totally see where cpu counts. |
| 22:36.00 | tessier_ | But few people have the need to implement raytracers. |
| 22:36.18 | ``Erik | (mal is heavy into high speed raytracing lately) |
| 22:37.11 | tessier_ | I see. |
| 22:37.16 | ``Erik | tessier: if you want to make BRL-CAD work for you, we'd be happy to discuss the path from point A to point B, it's mostly a matter of A) not knowing the drafting world so well and B) not having the time to do it :/ |
| 22:37.18 | tessier_ | Maloeran: I bet you use vi. :) |
| 22:37.27 | ``Erik | hey, shut up, I use vim :( |
| 22:37.37 | tessier_ | ``Erik: You code scheme in vim? |
| 22:37.40 | ``Erik | yup |
| 22:37.44 | tessier_ | I like vim just fine. Been using it for 10 years. |
| 22:37.50 | tessier_ | But coding scheme in vim seems a bit nutty. |
| 22:37.58 | ``Erik | there're addons to make it better |
| 22:38.05 | tessier_ | I learned emacs for programming tasks and use vi for everything else. |
| 22:38.05 | ``Erik | vim has a dialect of schemme somewhere under the hood |
| 22:38.18 | ``Erik | a lot more 'normal' compared to modern languages than elithp |
| 22:38.22 | tessier_ | It bugs me that that they wrote their own extension language for vim |
| 22:38.41 | tessier_ | I know you can tie python and other stuff into it. But one standard extension language that everyone uses seems like a better way to go. |
| 22:38.42 | louipc | well there's already sketch objects in BRL-CAD |
| 22:38.51 | ``Erik | vim has pluggable extensions... mine are built with python, ruby, and the internal scheme/lithp |
| 22:39.00 | ``Erik | plus cscope, and with the gui disabled |
| 22:39.03 | tessier_ | If brl-cad doesn't work for drafting it probably isn't what I need. Although I wish I could draft and then produce a 3d model. |
| 22:39.23 | tessier_ | So I don't have to draw everything twice. |
| 22:39.30 | louipc | yeah |
| 22:39.35 | tessier_ | Wish I could draw in a speed 400 motor and then use that same dawing in both. |
| 22:39.46 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD can do 3d models, and has something called "rtedge" that attempts to do line drawings |
| 22:40.06 | ``Erik | it cannot do dimension lines at this time, and rtedge is... nonoptimal |
| 22:40.38 | ``Erik | if you're just wanting something to help cut balsa and place bits, rtedge MIGHT be sufficient |
| 22:40.52 | ``Erik | not something that can be passed to a machine cutter though |
| 22:41.28 | tessier_ | I'm not fortunately enough to have a machine cutter. |
| 22:41.52 | tessier_ | But I would like something I can print 2d blueprints from. I'm not so interested in balsa as I am in composite design. |
| 22:41.55 | louipc | what needs dimensioning can be arbitrary and needs to be selected by the drafter |
| 22:42.00 | tessier_ | I make stuff from fiberglass, carbon fiber, expoxy resin, etc. |
| 22:42.09 | ``Erik | ummmmmmmm |
| 22:42.11 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA |
| 22:42.24 | tessier_ | 2d drawings are mostly for patterns, jigs, etc. And 2d parts fitting and layout planning although 3d would be better for that. |
| 22:42.36 | ``Erik | that device was designed and raytraced using BRL-CAD by one of the dudes who hangs out here |
| 22:42.51 | ``Erik | if you go to the web page, he has lots of 'rtedge' displays |
| 22:43.10 | ``Erik | he even found a funky race condition bug in rtedge :) |
| 22:43.34 | ``Erik | http://ronja.twibright.com/ |
| 22:47.16 | ``Erik | (unfortunate that he didn't use the multispectral raytracing capabilities to optimize configuration, but *shrug* it got the job done) |
| 22:47.44 | tessier_ | Wow, that RONJA device is really cool |
| 22:49.26 | ``Erik | http://ronja.twibright.com/holder/index.php is the output of rtedge |
| 22:49.37 | ``Erik | with the bug, heh |
| 22:49.59 | ``Erik | <-- fixed it, but doesn't remember if the fix made it to 7.10.0 or not... 7.10.2 should be out 'any day now' |
| 22:50.07 | ``Erik | if brlcad would get off his duff O.o :> *duck* |
| 22:50.28 | tessier_ | What does rtedge do exactly? |
| 22:50.55 | louipc | cool |
| 22:51.03 | ``Erik | um, fires proximity rays and if the difference in first hit is above a threshold, draws a line there |
| 22:51.50 | ``Erik | but at the moment, the threshold is hard coded and more designed for reasonably large vehicles (like, 10m long... think tanks) |
| 22:52.38 | tessier_ | I see. |
| 22:52.52 | tessier_ | Ever heard of CADIA? |
| 22:53.14 | ``Erik | sounds semi-familiar |
| 22:53.38 | tessier_ | http://www.nextcraft.com/rcprojects.html |
| 22:53.55 | tessier_ | Check out those models. All rendered in 3d. This guy is a master. |
| 22:54.24 | ``Erik | hm |
| 22:54.34 | ``Erik | ummm |
| 22:54.52 | ``Erik | one of the nifty things of brlcad is the ability to estimate CM, total mass, etc |
| 22:57.03 | tessier_ | Yes, that could be handy |
| 22:57.40 | ``Erik | aand there's effort to export to a FEM format, uhhh, 'qubit', which could do flow analysis |
| 22:58.01 | ``Erik | qubit might not be public, though :/ |
| 22:58.14 | tessier_ | Total mass? So you tell it how much each of the materials weighs etc? |
| 22:58.21 | louipc | tessier_: what's cadia? |
| 22:59.10 | ``Erik | yes, every region can have a material associated, density of the material is defined and it can sum it all up |
| 22:59.40 | tessier_ | http://www.nextcraft.com/nextcraft_products.html |
| 22:59.43 | ``Erik | I think it's still all done with 'GIFT' materials, which tend to be skewed towards heavier harder things |
| 22:59.49 | tessier_ | I think cadia is what this guy uses for his 3d models but I'm not sure. |
| 22:59.57 | ``Erik | like, several kinds of steel, some hard woods, don't think balsa is a standard bit |
| 23:00.02 | ``Erik | but could easily be added |
| 23:00.02 | tessier_ | Can I define my own materials? |
| 23:00.07 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:00.18 | tessier_ | And units? Like draw a speed 400 motor and say it weighs this much and has a center of mass/gravity at a particular location? |
| 23:00.35 | ``Erik | the .g db understands ints, and there's a materials file that's ascii |
| 23:00.41 | tessier_ | That would be pretty handy for building models. |
| 23:01.02 | ``Erik | ummm, it understands units, I dunno if you can skew like that, um, though if you defined the guts of the 400 motor, it SHOULD come out correct |
| 23:01.30 | ``Erik | or you could make the motor otu of two cylinders (plus surface crap) and assign different 'effective mass' coefficients for the bits to emulate the correct balance |
| 23:03.34 | ``Erik | the only bit that might be seriously challenging would be shaped bits (nose cones, the inital scoop on the rudder, etc) and skinning :/ otherwise, most r/c planes are awfully simple |
| 23:03.51 | ``Erik | and 'advanced' primitives like the "pipe" goes perfectly with control gear |
| 23:04.47 | ``Erik | naturally, the engineering of how to assemble it will be up to the model developer, but with the raytracing abilities, you could 'see' a proposed model at each step of assembly |
| 23:06.12 | ``Erik | there's even a 'best fit' project on the table that'd go well for laying out how to cut up planks of balsa, once it's implemented :) |
| 23:09.54 | ``Erik | heh "spel chek" |
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| 16:15.18 | poolio | brlcad: !!!!!!!!! |
| 16:18.09 | poolio | brlcad: http://poolio.org/index.php?q=node/10 |
| 16:35.41 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c): tweaks to selection. now converges on one sphere |
| 17:20.16 | brlcad | better :) |
| 17:20.35 | brlcad | still not quite the right graph, but definitely better :) |
| 17:21.02 | brlcad | understandable without mutation, though |
| 17:21.25 | poolio | I ran it on two spheres and it didn't work out nearly as good |
| 17:21.41 | poolio | the main thing I'm worried about is crossover/reproduction aren't really yielding any better solutions than in the first generation |
| 17:21.48 | poolio | the average fitness is increasing but the best idnividual isn't |
| 17:22.07 | poolio | if I recall correctly, the best individual shouldn't converge nearly as soon as it is |
| 17:22.13 | poolio | (within the first, or a few generations) |
| 17:22.47 | poolio | kinda like a square root graph |
| 17:24.46 | brlcad | yep |
| 17:25.04 | brlcad | even with just crossover, I'd expect the best fit to increase a few times |
| 17:25.16 | poolio | Yeah I would too... |
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| 18:19.37 | poolio | what the heck...I broke the fitness routine again |
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| 19:46.44 | Twingy | this 40MHz 18F1320 runs stable at 48MHz |
| 19:46.53 | Twingy | 2400 cosine's per second |
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| 20:57.53 | elite01 | sounded just like an advert break, didn't it? |
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| 01:00.15 | LinuxMafia | hi |
| 01:00.28 | LinuxMafia | is there any tool in brlcad |
| 01:00.48 | LinuxMafia | for designing human body? |
| 01:01.08 | LinuxMafia | i need to make a model of human body |
| 01:04.26 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, u there? |
| 01:21.47 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (population.c fitness.c fitness.h): final bug fixed in fitness. crossover and reproduction are stable and functional |
| 01:30.46 | LinuxMafia | CIA-29, hi |
| 01:36.39 | poolio | CIA-29 is a bot |
| 01:36.58 | poolio | I'm not too familiar with modeling in brl-cad, but as far as I know there is not. |
| 01:37.31 | LinuxMafia | poolio, thanks alot |
| 03:01.55 | poolio | brlcad: I'm sick :\ |
| 03:02.31 | poolio | can I take a sick day and stay home? ;) |
| 03:11.32 | tessier_ | LinuxMafia: Can't you get yourself a real gf? |
| 03:11.50 | LinuxMafia | tessier_, no |
| 03:12.14 | LinuxMafia | tessier_, can you do it for me plz |
| 03:12.37 | tessier_ | LinuxMafia: Ok, next time I bang my gf I'll say "This one's for LinuxMafia!" |
| 03:12.58 | LinuxMafia | lol |
| 03:13.07 | LinuxMafia | i can do it myself :P |
| 05:00.44 | louipc | hahah |
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| 08:05.53 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mydreamsystem.png :) |
| 08:13.18 | tessier_ | LinuxMafia: Mission accomplished. My gf thought I was weird but oh well. You are no longer a virgin by proxy. |
| 08:13.30 | tessier_ | Hope it was as good for you as it was for me. |
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| 12:36.57 | LinuxMafia | tessier_, lol thanks alot |
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| 15:36.12 | poolio | brlcad: alright, mutation is implemented for ellipsoids and the results are only slightly better |
| 15:36.16 | poolio | still not getting the graph I'd expect |
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| 16:14.50 | Maloeran | 33/deta |
| 17:16.00 | LinuxMafia | hi |
| 17:16.10 | LinuxMafia | any one here |
| 17:17.06 | LinuxMafia | is there any way to export files from other 3d softwares (makehuman) into brlcad |
| 17:17.27 | poolio | brlcad: I'm gonna need a better computer to test this :P |
| 17:23.18 | poolio | brlcad: My program is close to melting my laptop, and there's a slow memory leak that fills up my memory after a little while |
| 17:23.22 | poolio | 80C :\ |
| 17:23.49 | Maloeran | What are you testing, poolio? |
| 17:24.09 | poolio | My genetic algorithm program |
| 17:24.22 | Maloeran | LinuxMafia, there are several exporters to the .g format, try to find one that would be appropriate |
| 17:24.36 | Maloeran | And what is the GA looking for? |
| 17:25.05 | LinuxMafia | Maloeran, thanks alot i will come back again |
| 17:26.39 | Maloeran | LinuxMafia, look into /usr/brlcad/bin for ply-g, dxf-g, off-g, etc. |
| 17:27.06 | poolio | Maloeran: a model! |
| 17:27.23 | LinuxMafia | Maloeran, oh that would be great thanks alot , |
| 17:27.36 | poolio | Unfortunately it's not working too well |
| 17:28.06 | poolio | Maloeran: It's trying to evolve a model that matches inputted voxel data |
| 17:28.17 | ``Erik | a CSG model, that is |
| 17:28.21 | poolio | so If you input voxel data that resembles a sphere, the GA shoudl output a sphere |
| 17:28.27 | poolio | Yeah, CSG model :) |
| 17:28.38 | Maloeran | Oh, I see. It's beginning to make sense |
| 17:28.47 | ``Erik | a voxel model would be a no-op and a triangle model would be pretty darn easy :) |
| 17:28.49 | poolio | Maloeran: poolio.org |
| 17:28.53 | Maloeran | Well, I can give you an user on a 8 cores box if it would help |
| 17:29.18 | poolio | Maloeran: It would definitely help, but for now there's much to be worked on before I go into full out testing |
| 17:29.29 | poolio | For example, fixing the memory leak, implementing a few more routines, cleaning up code, etc... |
| 17:29.37 | Maloeran | *nods* All right then |
| 17:29.49 | poolio | I might have to take you up on that offer later :) My laptop is taking quite a beating |
| 17:30.06 | poolio | I'd ask brlcad but he's probably really busy prepping for siggraph |
| 17:30.35 | Maloeran | Oh? I didn't know brlcad had stuff to prepare for Siggraph |
| 17:30.47 | poolio | I was of that opinion, but I could be wrong |
| 17:31.03 | poolio | ``Erik might know more, or just ask brlcad when he gets back...from wherever it is he is |
| 17:32.45 | Maloeran | Voxels to CSG really sounds like an... annoying problem |
| 17:33.06 | poolio | Yep :) |
| 17:33.18 | Maloeran | You'll have plenty of arbitrary values to obtain your solutions. I see why you would rather let a GA do all the "hard work" :) |
| 18:04.04 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: |
| 18:04.04 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: increase the buffer size which is useful when gdb prints out stack variables, |
| 18:04.04 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: but instead of dumping the overflow to stderr, write it to the log with a note |
| 18:04.05 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: that it was trimmed. only given the warning if we're debugging. |
| 18:08.10 | poolio | brlcad: As far as I can tell there aren't any result-effecting bugs, and crossover reproduction and mutation are all working (for spheres) |
| 18:08.42 | poolio | It still isn't doing a good job of finding a good solution though, it converges relatively early and mutation isn't yielding any significantly higher results. And sometimes mutation causes the best individual to dip slightly |
| 18:18.56 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: initialize framename to null |
| 19:04.57 | ``Erik | mal: to attend and mebbe do a BoF, not to present a paper or anything |
| 19:05.43 | poolio | sorry ``Erik :\ |
| 19:10.21 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: better handling of command-mode when the parent is forked and waiting on the done notification |
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| 20:21.41 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: condensed info from ideas.html |
| 20:29.26 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/.cvsignore: ignore operators.g |
| 20:35.43 | poolio | brlcad: I think part of the issue might just be the nature of the CSG problem. It might require a larger population and more generations to get the desired result. With a pop size of 500 and after 200 generations, it's stuck on a decent solution, but I wouldn't really call it near-optimal |
| 20:37.28 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/bookmarks.html: include t2 (linux) pacakge page |
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| 20:45.33 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: credit Aldas Nabazas and Stefan Fiedler for respectively putting BRL-CAD into the Rock Linux and T2 Linux distributions as a managed package |
| 20:46.12 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: notify t2 and rock linux package maintainers during source release |
| 20:50.42 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: been at least a year since chuck was last active |
| 21:05.47 | IriX64 | heh Automagically preparing build ... :) |
| 21:18.12 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/sys.png :) |
| 21:51.37 | elite01 | IriX64, sure you installed the right programs to install the installation program? :) |
| 22:56.15 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: turn off new iges converter prior to release, add a bunch of files it was missing for the dist |
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| 00:34.12 | LinuxMafia | i need to export .bs file to .g file |
| 00:46.37 | brlcad | .bs? |
| 00:49.57 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, hi |
| 00:50.09 | LinuxMafia | hi poolio |
| 00:50.22 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, it is makehuman file |
| 01:03.45 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): more items that need to be uninstalled, added since a5 to a6 |
| 01:07.09 | ``Erik | that'd be an awesome tld |
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| 02:10.20 | louipc | new release hey? :D |
| 03:13.20 | brlcad | louipc: soon, making sure the dists work |
| 03:14.11 | poolio | brlcad: grargh. found why my program was running fairly slow. I had ncpu hardcoded as 1...d'oh. I have 2 :) |
| 03:15.30 | brlcad | that should make some difference :) |
| 03:16.16 | poolio | brlcad: also, I'm currently not setting a_ray_length and am manually clipping the partitions. Can I trust a_ray_length or no? I recall you saying something about how I should just code it |
| 03:17.31 | brlcad | yeah, I'd just code it yourself |
| 03:17.42 | brlcad | you see the picture? |
| 03:18.06 | poolio | which one? the whole explaining intersection and boudning box and crossover |
| 03:18.33 | brlcad | the only picture I've made for you afair :) |
| 03:18.41 | poolio | yes I saw |
| 03:19.25 | poolio | but I mean, there's no real way around it is there? |
| 03:19.36 | brlcad | there is |
| 03:19.53 | poolio | hmm. lemme dig up that picture again |
| 03:20.53 | brlcad | you expand your shoot grid to encompass the bounds, using the same grid sample size .. and any material found just decreases fitness by that much a ratio |
| 03:21.21 | brlcad | probably not something you need to worry about, but it should probably be documented |
| 03:21.34 | poolio | wait, well I disagree |
| 03:21.50 | poolio | Maybe you only want the corner of the object |
| 03:22.27 | poolio | Like lets say you have a sphere, and your input geometry is the shape of a half a hemisphere. a quarter sphere? my vocabulary fails. but regardless, why should we decrease the fitness? |
| 03:22.43 | poolio | I mean I don't see why it matters what's outside the bounding box as long as what is inside the bounding box is correct |
| 03:23.01 | poolio | Ah wait. d'oh. I guess it _looks_ fine in terms of voxel data but the model would be wrong. I see... |
| 03:23.03 | brlcad | not following your example |
| 03:23.21 | poolio | Well my example is wrong |
| 03:23.33 | brlcad | i mean if it's a half a sphere, with a box subtracted, then the bounding box would be all misses, and youd be fine |
| 03:24.00 | poolio | hmm, i dont quite follow your example either |
| 03:24.03 | poolio | what I meant was this |
| 03:24.11 | poolio | Lets say your input data was in the shape of a hemisphere. |
| 03:24.16 | brlcad | er, my example is just the one on paper :) |
| 03:24.18 | poolio | Now lets say you sample a fixed bounding box |
| 03:24.23 | brlcad | er, s/paper/picture |
| 03:24.35 | brlcad | okay, shape of a hemisphere |
| 03:24.47 | brlcad | bounding box is nice and tight around it |
| 03:25.03 | poolio | now lets say the GA comes up with a solution that is a sphere |
| 03:25.12 | poolio | and the lower half of that sphere is exactly where the input geometry is |
| 03:25.16 | poolio | that sphere is a perfectly fit individual |
| 03:25.35 | poolio | I was thinking, "alright, that's good" but I realize that we don't want that. We need it to match the model and only the model |
| 03:25.52 | brlcad | right, the point is to match the input |
| 03:26.26 | poolio | yeah...I was just thinking matching the voxel data, and ignoring what's outside the bounding box, but yeah that's not right |
| 03:26.53 | brlcad | i mean, you can get away with it -- that's what I meant about it being fine for now |
| 03:27.39 | brlcad | if you found something that did match everything inside the box, you have a "good" solution by just intersecting the result model with the bounding box |
| 03:27.50 | brlcad | not necessarily optimal, but it's good |
| 03:27.54 | poolio | ah yeah, you could do that |
| 03:28.31 | brlcad | so, just document the limitation and don't worry about it :) |
| 03:28.45 | poolio | alright. it's quite trivial to implement though |
| 03:28.57 | brlcad | nah, don't both |
| 03:28.59 | brlcad | bother |
| 03:29.04 | poolio | alright |
| 03:29.15 | brlcad | it gets more complex |
| 03:30.16 | brlcad | e.g. taking your example of a hemisphere.. consider one solution that has a tight-fitted box subtracting perfectly on the bounding box's edge, and another that extracts massive space but giving the same result |
| 03:30.41 | brlcad | their fitness would work out to the same if you only consider positive space, but the tight-fitting result is more desirable |
| 03:31.52 | poolio | yeah. that's where you'd hope the # nodes would do something. but if you have it fixed then ... nope |
| 03:32.15 | poolio | If you allowed variation in #nodes, ideally it would converge on the tight-fitting one with the least amount of wasted space. |
| 03:32.16 | brlcad | the number of nodes are identical in that case |
| 03:32.23 | brlcad | one sphere and one box being subtracted |
| 03:32.42 | brlcad | it's the size of the box (its efficiency as a cutting space) that matters |
| 03:33.05 | poolio | Well, if you include your method of shooting more rays they wouldnt be identical |
| 03:33.14 | poolio | oh wait |
| 03:33.15 | poolio | I see |
| 03:33.16 | brlcad | they would |
| 03:33.19 | brlcad | negative space |
| 03:33.22 | poolio | Yeah yeah |
| 03:33.23 | brlcad | it's a miss |
| 03:33.35 | brlcad | anyways, "don't worry about it" :) |
| 03:33.37 | poolio | So you could have a box that cuts from the hemisphere and goes on forever |
| 03:33.40 | poolio | and wastes tons of space |
| 03:33.42 | brlcad | right |
| 03:33.46 | poolio | hrmph. |
| 03:33.58 | poolio | I'm a bit slow and more than a bit sick, sorry :) |
| 03:34.01 | brlcad | there's an easy metric in that case |
| 03:34.15 | brlcad | even better than looking at the size of the csg tree |
| 03:34.36 | poolio | I would say size of the bounding box? |
| 03:34.50 | poolio | (addition of each individual object) |
| 03:34.56 | brlcad | nope, bigger might be better in a different case |
| 03:34.57 | poolio | well not object, shape |
| 03:35.17 | brlcad | you'd take the evaluation time into consideration |
| 03:35.27 | brlcad | how long does it take to shoot rays at one vs the other |
| 03:35.40 | brlcad | smaller trees and tighter fitting csg will naturally win |
| 03:35.48 | brlcad | as will more efficient primitives |
| 03:35.58 | poolio | hmm, good thought |
| 03:36.14 | brlcad | an advanced idea for later .. much later :) |
| 03:36.38 | brlcad | after it's shown to work or not work on basic parts |
| 03:36.47 | poolio | you'd have to rely on a stable environment though, I feel like there are a lot of factors that could throw it off |
| 03:36.51 | poolio | yes yes |
| 03:37.30 | poolio | I'm doing some code clean up now. Then I'll finish up mutation and the setting of the inclusion of certain upper/lower individuals |
| 03:55.14 | poolio | Hmm wonderful. I spy a race condition. |
| 04:00.51 | poolio | sleepy time. cya brlcad |
| 04:01.54 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r214 10/trunk/libirc/autogen.sh: update to the latest script, version 20070618 from brl-cad |
| 04:03.59 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r215 10/trunk/libirc/COPYING: license is supposed to be LGPL, not GPL .. readme is correct but this file is wrong |
| 04:51.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/Makefile.am m4/restore.m4): |
| 04:51.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: autogen.sh no longer creates .backup files in an aux directory, so there's |
| 04:51.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: nothing for us to automatically recover from. this means subsequent clobbering |
| 04:51.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: automakes may blow away our files, but there's not much we can do about it. |
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| 06:31.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: minor dead code |
| 07:12.33 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r216 10/trunk/libirc/m4/ (. args.m4 cache.m4 mkdirp.m4 search.m4 stage.m4): add a bunch of boilerplate m4 macros to simplify the configure logic a bit |
| 07:13.36 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r217 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: be sure that aclocal searches in the m4 dir for macros, require automake 1.6 and generate all dist formats |
| 07:15.33 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r218 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: update to better configure logic, using bc and bz as example |
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| 07:30.19 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/patch.m4 m4/Makefile.am): turn the libtool chunk that patches libtool if it has the -all_load bug on Mac OS X into an m4 macro, BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL |
| 07:35.33 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r219 10/trunk/libirc/misc/ (Makefile.am Makefile.defs): import brl-cad's nifty noprod rules |
| 07:37.17 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r220 10/trunk/libirc/m4/ (Makefile.am patch.m4): bring over BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL too, and add the m4 files to the dist |
| 07:40.39 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r221 10/trunk/libirc/ (Makefile.am configure.ac): use BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL, add m4 to the build path |
| 07:48.12 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/compiler.m4): move the sanity check to a BC_SANITY_CHECK macro |
| 07:49.18 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r222 10/trunk/libirc/ (configure.ac m4/Makefile.am m4/compiler.m4): import BC_SANITY_CHECK |
| 07:54.46 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: add support for --with-cxxflags |
| 07:54.57 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r223 10/trunk/libirc/m4/args.m4: add --with-cxxflags |
| 07:55.59 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r224 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: condense the 32 or so lines down to one for the standard --with overrides via BC_WITH_FLAG_ARGS |
| 08:03.55 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r225 10/trunk/libirc/include/net.h: can't have anonymous typedef types used as parameters |
| 08:16.33 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r226 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidServer/src/Makefile.am: fix minor copy-paste typo, should be stupidServer not stupidBot |
| 08:17.10 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r227 10/trunk/libirc/ (14 files in 13 dirs): propagate Makefile.defs throughout so that the recursive noprod rule works |
| 08:21.28 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r228 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: er, we're using svn for libirc, so check that when determining whether to enable/disable automatic dependency tracking |
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| 08:29.30 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r229 10/trunk/libirc/src/Makefile.am: bunch of files added/changed since this was first written, update to match current |
| 08:30.52 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r230 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: you still can't take a reference to a temporary anonymous type, also fix the handful of erase iterators |
| 08:33.53 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r231 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (irClientCommands.cpp irClientEvents.cpp): more instances of trying to take a reference to a temporary |
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| 08:37.51 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r232 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): s/loger/logger/, and fix scope on the default loggers so they don't run into each other in the library. libIRC is now compilation-functional again. |
| 08:42.06 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r233 10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/src/simpleIRCConnect.cpp: yet another ref to temp, all examples compile now too |
| 09:07.22 | CIA-29 | libirc: 03brlcad * r234 10/trunk/libirc/ (8 files in 8 dirs): ... and now libIRC even successfully passes a make distcheck again ... ship it! |
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| 12:54.00 | Maloeran | Ahah, that was really pathetic of me. I reserved my flight tickets for Siggraph in the month of July rather than August |
| 12:59.39 | Laniakea | brlcad: where is the workplace where BRL-CAD is created actually physically based? |
| 13:18.30 | ``Erik | heh, woops |
| 13:18.54 | ``Erik | laniakea: what do you mean? |
| 13:19.30 | ``Erik | oh, the physical location of the original (some most of the current) developers |
| 13:20.11 | Laniakea | let's say that yes |
| 13:20.27 | ``Erik | at the top of every C file should be a 'source' block... |
| 13:20.42 | ``Erik | something like this |
| 13:20.43 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.43 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:20.43 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:49.41 | brlcad | not any more on latest head, though not comprehensively reoved either |
| 13:50.57 | ``Erik | hrm? you removed the source entries? O.o |
| 13:54.16 | brlcad | phone numbers and addresses, particularly the ones that were no longer valid |
| 13:54.42 | ``Erik | ah, city/state should still be ok though |
| 13:54.50 | ``Erik | (I pulled that from bu fgets.c |
| 13:54.51 | ``Erik | ) |
| 13:55.11 | brlcad | the zip has changed over the years |
| 13:56.03 | brlcad | yeah, in general it's still okay, but it still the entire premise |
| 13:56.23 | brlcad | a "location" source for something that eventually/often has multiple distributed authors |
| 13:57.11 | ``Erik | true, but it'd be nifty to search the source for valid location info and generate a developer map, like debian and fbsd have |
| 13:57.29 | brlcad | those origins can be (and are) documented elsewhere, the code doesn't necessarily need to reflect that, particularly when they're often wrong |
| 13:57.37 | ``Erik | a la http://www.debian.org/devel/developers.loc |
| 13:58.11 | brlcad | yes, but then afaik they don't generate those maps off of their sources |
| 13:58.16 | brlcad | their devs say where they are at |
| 13:58.20 | ``Erik | no, the developers submit |
| 13:58.21 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 13:58.26 | ``Erik | same with the bsd one |
| 14:58.54 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:05.25 | ``Erik | freakin' vacuum always tripping the freakin' circuit breaker |
| 15:06.06 | archivist | Ive seen bad breakers as well |
| 15:09.25 | ``Erik | hum, there're two heavy computer users on this one breaker... I have 3 machines and 4 monitors, the other guy has about the same... |
| 15:09.58 | ``Erik | (overcrowded and organized to siloize based on role...) |
| 15:10.40 | ``Erik | interesting, configures search for system tk fails if there's no valid display to connect to |
| 16:26.46 | LinuxMafia | hi |
| 16:26.54 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, u here? |
| 16:27.17 | LinuxMafia | i need to export makehuman files into brlcad |
| 16:28.32 | brlcad | i'm usually here |
| 16:28.37 | brlcad | i just might not answer if i'm busy :) |
| 16:28.47 | LinuxMafia | oh ok |
| 16:28.52 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, cool |
| 16:28.59 | LinuxMafia | do you know makehuman? |
| 16:29.06 | brlcad | you need something that reads makehuman files or you'll need to scrtip/code something yourself |
| 16:29.06 | poolio | I think makehuman files aren't standard |
| 16:29.31 | poolio | brlcad: I woke up this morning by walking into my bathroom and stepping on a humongous hornet. stung me right at the ball of my middle toe. :( |
| 16:30.23 | brlcad | LinuxMafia, what are their export formats? find one that matches one of BRL-CAD's importers |
| 16:30.40 | brlcad | poolio... ouch! |
| 16:30.46 | brlcad | that had to hurt |
| 16:31.04 | brlcad | makes my hairs stand up just thinking about it |
| 16:31.07 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, it is .bvs |
| 16:31.13 | LinuxMafia | .bs* |
| 16:33.16 | poolio | brlcad: it's still throbbing. makes it hard to concentrate on code :\ oh well. |
| 16:34.32 | brlcad | LinuxMafia: I understand that -- that's their format |
| 16:34.38 | brlcad | pretty much nothing reads their format |
| 16:34.50 | poolio | LinuxMafia: is there a way to export a makehuman file as another format? |
| 16:34.53 | brlcad | so you'll have to export it in makehuman to a format that others understand |
| 16:35.04 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, and there is also objects , but i dont know how to make that |
| 16:35.12 | brlcad | a quick look through their site shows that they export obj format, which is pretty simple |
| 16:35.30 | brlcad | though we only have an obj exporter, not an importer at the moment.. |
| 16:35.43 | brlcad | so you'd still have to use some intermediary tool or write an obj importer |
| 16:36.28 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, how about export it into blender |
| 16:36.39 | LinuxMafia | and from there to brlcad |
| 16:36.47 | brlcad | you can export to obj, then import obj to blender, sure |
| 16:37.29 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, then brlcad can read that ? |
| 16:37.34 | brlcad | then export from blender to dxf or ply or stl, or several other import formas |
| 16:37.39 | poolio | brlcad: any tips on learning how to properly profile software? |
| 16:37.54 | LinuxMafia | oh got it now |
| 16:37.57 | brlcad | poolio, yes, get a good profile :) |
| 16:38.01 | brlcad | er, profiler |
| 16:38.19 | poolio | any suggestions? |
| 16:38.56 | brlcad | depends heavily on which platform and what sort of profiling -- mac os x's chud tools are currently some of the best all around (shark in particular) |
| 16:39.03 | poolio | I'm doing some general code clean up and was just trying to see if there was anything I could do to speed it up. I mean, I can see certain parts of the code and fix it that way, but there's no good reason to try to optimize stuff until i've profiled |
| 16:39.11 | poolio | brlcad: I'm under linux |
| 16:39.12 | brlcad | gprof is pretty run of the mill, and a good starting point |
| 16:39.21 | poolio | If you'd like me to send me a new macbook pro I could profile with that :) |
| 16:39.23 | brlcad | not a great profiler, but enough to get you going |
| 16:39.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:39.43 | poolio | I'd even sacrifice a bit and take your old one :) |
| 16:40.56 | brlcad | I have several old vaio's that I'd loan ya ;) |
| 16:41.21 | brlcad | but then it's probably an order slower than what you have :) |
| 16:42.04 | brlcad | beautiful notebooks though, first sub-1" sub-10lbs notebook |
| 16:42.06 | poolio | yar. my laptop's reasonably fast. Just has been having some heat and battery issues recently. I'm now only getting ~1 hour and it gets up to 80C when I test out my software |
| 16:42.15 | poolio | sub-10lbs. haha |
| 16:42.59 | brlcad | ~convert 1.4 kilograms to pounds |
| 16:43.07 | brlcad | sorry, sub-3lbs :) |
| 16:43.36 | poolio | haha. yeah |
| 16:43.46 | brlcad | about 10 years old now |
| 16:43.49 | poolio | I was thinking about getting a new ultraportable for college but it's a lot of cash and I'll survive with what I've got now |
| 16:43.55 | poolio | That's impressive for that time |
| 16:46.20 | poolio | brlcad: I may have asked you this already, but out of curiousity, what do you do most of your coding in? |
| 16:47.25 | brlcad | emacs |
| 16:47.45 | poolio | heh. never could get used to emacs. been using vim forever |
| 16:47.56 | brlcad | I hunkered down for a week after coding for several years with other editors (pico, vi, ..) |
| 16:48.12 | brlcad | and never went back |
| 16:48.24 | poolio | any particular reason? |
| 16:49.44 | brlcad | well, particularly because once you get over that learning curve for the default bindings, it really is more efficient, imo, over vim and just about everything else out there |
| 16:50.18 | brlcad | i mean, putting equal effort into both for a month, someone in emacs will end up being more proficient |
| 16:50.49 | brlcad | and not just for the editing, but the other facilities that emacs brings as an integrated development environment |
| 16:51.36 | poolio | yeah, that was one of my main reasons that I stopped. I like having my text editor just be a text editor, and I work by opening up multiple terminals and editing a file in vim in each of them, another window compiling. It's just a habit |
| 16:52.03 | brlcad | there are some things that vim works very well for even over emacs, but for long-term coding emacs is specifically built for it |
| 16:52.23 | brlcad | yeah, and I used to say the same .. you grow habits |
| 16:52.33 | brlcad | and those habits staple your preferences to what you already know |
| 16:53.35 | brlcad | in the end, it's just a tool and will boil down to the developer's proficiency with that tool -- but that's where I say that after equal investing, your emacs user will generally be far more proficient in the long run |
| 16:55.03 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, how about .mtl? |
| 16:55.30 | brlcad | like I said, I fought it for years -- even after seeing in college that 90% of the "best" coders in the upperclassmen above me were all proficient emacs users (with about 9% using vi, and 1% using something else) -- but then I hunkered down for a solid week (which turned into two) and said I'd give it an honest chance |
| 16:56.02 | brlcad | and with a cheat-sheet beside me for days, I worked through the tutorials, learned the bindings, and then lightbulbs started going off |
| 16:56.13 | brlcad | LinuxMafia: ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g |
| 16:56.18 | brlcad | those are the importers |
| 16:56.25 | brlcad | no more, no less :) |
| 16:56.34 | LinuxMafia | thanks alot |
| 16:58.26 | poolio | brlcad: lightbulbs? really? I'll have to give it a go then |
| 16:59.49 | brlcad | poolio: it wasn't until about a week of non-stop use, constantly referring to a cheat sheet while I learned, but yes it did eventually happen |
| 17:00.37 | brlcad | it's still not a panacea, every environment has it's limitations |
| 17:00.45 | poolio | My main thing was the key combos were awkward and I didn't bother to change them |
| 17:00.56 | brlcad | I would suggest NOT changing them |
| 17:01.20 | brlcad | learning the defaults is important for reasons that won't matter for quite a while, but eventually will matter |
| 17:01.21 | poolio | get used to awkwardly twisting your fingers? |
| 17:01.46 | brlcad | do you know how to type? |
| 17:01.51 | poolio | not well |
| 17:02.15 | brlcad | hm, then it might seem awkward for some combos I suppose if you use the wrong fingers |
| 17:02.39 | brlcad | not well as in you don't touch type or you just don't touch type fast? |
| 17:02.53 | poolio | Well, mainly the ctrl+ things. The ctrl on my laptop kbd is not the lower left, Fn is lower left, it's to the right of that. So it's kind of awkward. and I never use the lower right shift/ctrl keys |
| 17:03.12 | poolio | I don't touch type fast and I don't make full use of the keyboard |
| 17:03.22 | brlcad | ah |
| 17:04.08 | brlcad | well hitting lower-left control is probably just familiarity, my left pinky hits it without hesitation |
| 17:04.25 | brlcad | i vaguely remember it being awkward the first week too, had to get some muscle memory |
| 17:04.41 | poolio | hehe. yeah maybe I'll have some time to learn later on |
| 17:05.25 | brlcad | learning to use esc for meta instead of alt was another, using ctrl-n,p,f,b for traversal, and a few others |
| 17:06.10 | brlcad | at the time seemed like torture, but then after the familiarity curve, the efficiency (particularly compared to modal editing in vim) was rather blatent after a couple weeks |
| 17:06.12 | poolio | esc for meta? weird |
| 17:06.25 | brlcad | esc is meta |
| 17:06.39 | poolio | i always use alt for meta |
| 17:06.46 | brlcad | esc is a modal meta |
| 17:06.51 | poolio | ah |
| 17:07.04 | brlcad | and considerably more portable |
| 17:07.47 | brlcad | alt generally only works well on x86 |
| 17:08.07 | brlcad | which over the years became important on many occasions |
| 17:08.44 | brlcad | even recently, as that portability extends to keycodes through ssh/terminal sessions for different platforms/environments |
| 17:10.45 | brlcad | anyhow, there's going to be no convincing unless you actually dedicate that week (or more) of your coding life with an unbiased open mind before you'd start to see what all the fuss has been about |
| 17:11.12 | poolio | yes yes. it's also possible after that week or two I stll won't like it. It's all about personal preference in the end |
| 17:11.21 | brlcad | that is true |
| 17:14.23 | brlcad | though I can say that of several experienced coder friends which have gone through the exercise, the result has thusfar been them either giving up before the week ends or they convert |
| 17:15.57 | brlcad | it's also an interesting trend that you rather frequently see coders that convert from vim, pico, or whatever to emacs ... but you rarely ever see an emacs coder convert to anything else |
| 17:18.43 | poolio | cause they're close minded ;) |
| 17:19.36 | brlcad | could be |
| 17:20.04 | brlcad | but then I don't think it'd be so much a trend |
| 17:20.56 | archivist | Ive stuck at vi or syn on windows |
| 17:20.57 | brlcad | I've seen several editors that would give emacs a run for it's money if I were a full-time java developer, for example |
| 17:22.11 | brlcad | i think it's more just ease of use, vi is pretty simple to use, fairly simple to learn .. low barrier to entry so you can get fairly proficient in the environment |
| 17:22.37 | ``Erik | vi strusfrates me almost as much as emacs :) |
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| 18:41.05 | poolio | some people qre quite impatient |
| 18:41.19 | ``Erik | yes, I am |
| 18:42.06 | LinuxMafia | brlcad, i finnally succed |
| 18:42.07 | ``Erik | I was sitting in a machine room with a summer intern trying to figure out if we were in the right machien room and what exactly she was supposed to do O.o ended up calling him :) |
| 18:42.40 | poolio | haha :) |
| 18:43.48 | ``Erik | now I'm back in my comfortable office reading about the latest kernel schedulers while that poor kid is typing the names of a jazillion beta tapes into a spreadsheet or something :) |
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| 18:43.51 | ``Erik | ++evil |
| 18:44.35 | dtidrow | moi? |
| 18:47.45 | ``Erik | no, me :) |
| 18:50.26 | dtidrow | ah |
| 18:50.45 | poolio | hehe. |
| 18:50.59 | poolio | ``Erik: is that how they treat summer interns at ARL? |
| 19:00.34 | ``Erik | well, usually the intern projects are a bit cooler |
| 19:01.45 | ``Erik | last year (or was it year before), we had a coder doing something for scripting abstraction, had a couple kids doing a survey of different 3d model generation devices (laser scanners, GPS toucharms, etc), one kid made a fairly detailed model of a residential house, ... |
| 19:02.20 | ``Erik | not sure where the 'catalog ancient media' came from *shrug* |
| 19:03.00 | poolio | yeah. that sucks |
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| 21:18.05 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: fixed race condition |
| 21:40.01 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt232-138.northwestel.net) | |
| 21:54.48 | brlcad | no way, her project is pretty cool |
| 21:55.18 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c beset.h fitness.h population.h): now able to keep an upper % of population and kill a lower %. general code cleanup. |
| 21:56.00 | brlcad | if I could drop this code project, I'd happily do what she's tasked with .. catalogging is just some prep work, the task is to rummage through a ton of historic video (of pretty significant importance) and convert them to digital |
| 21:56.40 | brlcad | one of them is the very first animation ever made with brl-cad, for example |
| 21:56.46 | poolio | cool |
| 21:56.51 | brlcad | the first "real time" ray-tracing video, |
| 21:56.55 | archivist | hopefully before the media dies |
| 21:57.02 | poolio | is pop_rand [0,1] or (0,1) ? |
| 21:57.41 | brlcad | archivist: excatly, I'm already worried that they're starting to degrade |
| 21:57.46 | poolio | archivist: quite the appropriate name |
| 21:58.36 | archivist | I did some work on 1/2" BW on Sony tape recorders and failed |
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| 21:59.23 | brlcad | there's content on old u-matic tapes, master broadcast tapes, betacam sp, some of the 'newer' of vhs, old film reels, actual old raw data reels even |
| 21:59.47 | archivist | early video has two basic types one likes to be cold and damp the other likes warm and dry |
| 22:00.20 | archivist | dont ask me which is which though |
| 22:03.02 | archivist | I had a discussion with the archivist at the uk national photography museum about the subject and its evil as the coating comes off and sticks to the video heads |
| 22:03.49 | archivist | umatic may well be ok as by that time things had improved |
| 22:06.42 | brlcad | yeah, this stuff is only 20 years old or newer and has been mostly very very well kept |
| 22:07.17 | brlcad | 5-10 more years and it could eaily be a very different story |
| 22:08.04 | dtidrow_work | good luck with that stuff, would hate to have it lost |
| 22:08.33 | brlcad | some of them naturally "look pretty old" ala 1980's tron graphics quality, but it's still pretty impressive stuff for some of the videos |
| 22:09.02 | dtidrow_work | heh - Tron was cutting-edge back then ;-) |
| 22:09.09 | brlcad | i've had it high on my todo for many years (as well as going through GB's of Mike's data) |
| 22:10.16 | brlcad | getting a student to just get that list of the content, and particularly finding where the *master* copies are .. as there are often a dozen copies in 4 different formats |
| 22:10.48 | dtidrow_work | ah, the joys of rummaging through old stuff :-) |
| 22:10.55 | brlcad | tron rocks, I'd pay someone to build me a faithful csg lightcycle |
| 22:10.59 | poolio | brlcad: shoulda sicked me on that, woulda been more useful :) |
| 22:11.13 | brlcad | poolio: too easy for you :) |
| 22:11.24 | poolio | haha. yeah right. |
| 22:11.54 | brlcad | though the whole digital editing/remastering could be really fun, color correction, repairs |
| 22:13.06 | poolio | writing a GA to correct the reels |
| 22:13.15 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:13.31 | poolio | Removing the noise |
| 22:13.32 | poolio | :) |
| 22:13.52 | brlcad | actually an easier problem space :) |
| 22:14.05 | poolio | much. |
| 22:14.36 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:20.24 | archivist | I might cheat I have a realtime video noise reducer |
| 22:20.39 | poolio | I wrote something along those lines for an SLO last summer |
| 22:23.22 | poolio | brlcad: wait wahhhhhhhhhh did i do wrong |
| 22:25.12 | poolio | brlcad: I'm using them cause it's run in parallel...and I'm changing the variable...right? |
| 22:25.15 | poolio | I'm probably wrong. |
| 22:25.39 | brlcad | there's a variety of ways they can be used |
| 22:26.03 | brlcad | i honestly don't know .. i just glanced for all of 30 seconds to notice that it seemed 'different' on the surface |
| 22:26.08 | poolio | Well, it waits for the semaphore to be available, then does whatever it needs to |
| 22:26.18 | poolio | different from what? |
| 22:26.21 | poolio | from normal usage? |
| 22:26.24 | brlcad | which isn't to say that it's right, wrong, or beautifully creative, or a PoS :) |
| 22:26.30 | poolio | ok ok :) |
| 22:26.44 | poolio | brlcad: are you just giving it a look over? any tips/suggetions/etc... are vastly appreciated |
| 22:27.36 | brlcad | i didn't go that deep just yet |
| 22:27.52 | brlcad | it was just a glance as I processed other e-mail :) |
| 22:27.55 | brlcad | sorry |
| 22:27.59 | poolio | ah I see. the commits :) |
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| 23:27.39 | poolio | brlcad: so I have everything implemented in terms of spheres and I'm not satisfied with the results. Any ideas? |
| 00:09.57 | brlcad | poolio: yes, profile (gprof), valgrind, write isolated unit test cases (that just test ONE function), and then polish your code |
| 00:10.34 | brlcad | those four steps should reveal at least a few issues if not many (particularly the isolated unit tests and valgrind) |
| 00:14.42 | poolio | Well, I don't think there is really an issue. I can't see anything is wrong. Speed is something that I could look at with profiling, but as far as I can see it's working fine, the algorithm just isn't doing too great |
| 00:15.02 | brlcad | it's not to find an issues, that's just due diligence on any code |
| 00:15.28 | poolio | Wait, so you're saying I should profile anyway? |
| 00:15.37 | brlcad | all code could ideally have all four of those cases written.. and they very OFTEN do uncover entirely unexpected issues |
| 00:15.41 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:15.51 | poolio | alright. I'll get on that. |
| 00:16.58 | brlcad | plus it's just good a exercise to get proficient in, particularly if you've never done it |
| 00:17.24 | brlcad | the configure option --enable-profile will turn on the gprof profile flag |
| 00:17.42 | brlcad | use that with debugging symbols enabled |
| 00:18.21 | brlcad | then run gprof and your program name in the dir with the gmon.out log and it'll generate a report -- see the web for some tutorials, manpage for docs, etc .. there are a lot of options |
| 00:18.52 | brlcad | undoubtedly, it will be spending a ton of time in the ray evaluation routines as you're very much cpu-bound, but there could be some surprises |
| 00:18.57 | poolio | alrighty. there's still some code clean up that I may do first, but that sounds good. |
| 00:19.20 | brlcad | i'd suggest running valgrind before doing gprof |
| 00:19.27 | poolio | but I mean shouldn't I still be going for getting better results out of the GA? |
| 00:19.46 | brlcad | this will be a good "breather" for a day or two :) |
| 00:19.49 | poolio | brlcad: yeah the issue with valgrind is it seperates the reports with each thread |
| 00:20.00 | poolio | heh, dont have time for a breather :) |
| 00:20.05 | brlcad | so run it single threaded first :) |
| 00:20.34 | brlcad | there's a few things it'll likely report in librt itself that don't clean up on exit, and those are known/can be ignored |
| 00:20.53 | poolio | k |
| 00:21.11 | brlcad | otherwise it should be nearly a clean/empty report |
| 00:22.09 | brlcad | there should be zero "definitely lost" leaks |
| 00:22.21 | brlcad | even in system libs |
| 00:23.49 | poolio | ==14776== ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 17 from 1) |
| 00:37.24 | ``Erik | what's left on the 7.10.2 checklist, yo? |
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| 01:19.12 | louipc | is there a point where you'll check that it builds nicely before release? |
| 01:20.29 | louipc | I'd like to check if it works on archlinux, last time it didn't work so I didn't update the pkg. I didn't feel like patching it from heh. :/ |
| 01:47.59 | poolio | brlcad: I don't think my timer is fast enough...? |
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| 09:34.20 | Laniakea | msg -lugs tarzeau do you wear contact lenses? |
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| 10:01.43 | Laniakea | omg |
| 10:11.55 | poolio | morning? |
| 10:11.56 | tarzeau | Laniakea: sometimes? |
| 10:12.03 | tarzeau | Laniakea: you got an irc problem? |
| 10:13.53 | Laniakea | tarzeau: no I left out the / |
| 10:14.17 | Laniakea | tarzeau: see query |
| 10:14.22 | Laniakea | (on lugs) |
| 10:26.00 | Laniakea | tarzeau: do you see my query? You are not responding |
| 10:26.12 | tarzeau | wait |
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| 13:37.01 | ``Erik | louipc: the last step before release is to take the candidate tarball to a slew of os/arch combos and make sure it compiles, runs benchmark, and does a fistful of things in mged... which I *THINK* is what brlcad is sorta doing now |
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| 14:27.06 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/ (Makefile.am tkCanvBezier.c): actually remove tkCanvBezier.c as it's no longer used |
| 14:45.56 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:57.48 | poolio | brlcad: is there a way to identify what data structure is eating away at the memory? |
| 15:58.05 | poolio | Like I know I have a memory leak somewhere I'm just having a hard time finding it by hand |
| 16:02.17 | brlcad | depends on the nature of the leak -- if it is a true leak, valgrind should have found it |
| 16:03.04 | brlcad | what was the rest of valgrind's report -- errors aren't the only part |
| 16:05.14 | poolio | memcheck whines about stuff internal to librt |
| 16:05.45 | poolio | Oh woah, it changed since the last time I ran it |
| 16:06.30 | poolio | hmm. I have a bunch of definitely lost bytes :\ |
| 16:15.56 | ``Erik | if valgrind and boehm don't find them, they're still reachable by something in the frame stack |
| 16:16.57 | poolio | well valgrind found some |
| 16:17.03 | poolio | but it doesn't make senes |
| 16:17.04 | poolio | e |
| 16:19.37 | poolio | ``Erik: http://rafb.net/p/eCHfmb31.html |
| 16:20.26 | brlcad | might not make sense but i've yet to see valgrid be wrong :) |
| 16:20.26 | poolio | It's saying that rt_init_resource is leaking, but I rt_clean the resources for sure... |
| 16:20.58 | poolio | Yeah yeah |
| 16:20.58 | brlcad | that one is known |
| 16:21.08 | poolio | alright, so that's all normal? |
| 16:21.10 | brlcad | the ptbl ones can be ignored |
| 16:21.39 | brlcad | there is no counterpart to rt_init_resource |
| 16:21.47 | brlcad | so items it allocated are never freed |
| 16:21.56 | poolio | Well that's a big issue |
| 16:22.09 | poolio | Because I re-allocate resources every time I raytrace a new individual |
| 16:22.25 | poolio | what about rt_clean_resource() ? |
| 16:22.34 | brlcad | that should be fine, it releases if you call init again |
| 16:22.53 | poolio | so I don't need to run rt_clean_resources() ? |
| 16:23.50 | brlcad | no, you should |
| 16:24.31 | poolio | Ok, and what about the rt_gettree one? |
| 16:24.58 | brlcad | there could be a leak in rt_clean_resources(), I'll look into it |
| 16:25.07 | brlcad | that's one that shouldn't be there |
| 16:25.36 | poolio | I'm calling it so much, the leaks just get bigger and bigger |
| 16:25.48 | brlcad | you've not freed the item from rt_gettree() I believe |
| 16:27.29 | poolio | Well, I rt_gettree() into some rtip, and I rt_free_rti() that rtip. So shouldn't that take care of it? |
| 16:28.23 | poolio | brlcad: and this? http://rafb.net/p/vhqFb112.html |
| 16:28.50 | brlcad | now that's a huge leak |
| 16:28.56 | poolio | shouldn't rt_free_rti() take care of that too? |
| 16:29.52 | poolio | I feel like there's something I need to do with the rtip besides rt_free_rti() |
| 16:29.58 | brlcad | in general, no -- rt_free_rti only free's the rti itself, not objects the rti holds |
| 16:30.16 | brlcad | as there can be multiple instances and other issues at play |
| 16:31.01 | poolio | ah alright. So I need to somehow free the structures rt_gettree() creates as well as rt_prep() ? |
| 16:32.42 | brlcad | don't know for sure for these two cases, so I'm looking -- you take the big one, i'll take the little one :) |
| 16:33.38 | poolio | alrighty |
| 16:33.42 | brlcad | it could be a librt leak with certain calling order or some free not being called that your code needs to be doing, hard to say without tracing the leak |
| 16:34.11 | brlcad | make no assumptions, just follow the memory and read the code that relates to it |
| 16:34.25 | poolio | k |
| 16:37.23 | brlcad | er, are you used CVS head? |
| 16:37.34 | poolio | yeah |
| 16:37.39 | brlcad | hmm.. my line numbers aren't matching yours |
| 16:37.56 | poolio | Hmm, haven't updated for a little while |
| 16:38.06 | poolio | guess I can do that |
| 16:38.30 | brlcad | let me know if db_tree.c updates |
| 16:40.12 | brlcad | louipc: I've got clean builds so feel free to test and let me know if you have build issues on your end |
| 16:41.03 | brlcad | ``Erik: i've not got a solaris on hand if you want to test them out |
| 16:41.31 | poolio | brlcad: yeah it changed |
| 16:41.52 | poolio | brlcad: Ah, I think it's that I hadn't updated since you changed the copyright comments last week |
| 16:42.06 | brlcad | ahh, okay |
| 16:42.15 | brlcad | that sounds about right offset-wise |
| 16:42.27 | brlcad | new report would be good to see |
| 16:43.40 | poolio | ah wait |
| 16:43.46 | poolio | I need to recompile dont I |
| 16:47.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.c population.c population.h): more mutation support and cosmetics |
| 16:47.59 | brlcad | yup |
| 16:48.31 | poolio | this is gonna take a while :) |
| 16:51.27 | poolio | grargh what did I break? |
| 16:51.28 | poolio | make: *** No rule to make target `m4/restore.m4', needed by `Makefile.in'. Stop. |
| 16:59.02 | poolio | fixed. |
| 16:59.12 | poolio | brlcad: even with rt_clean() I get the memory leaks |
| 16:59.45 | poolio | Which doesn' tmake sense, it looks like rt_clean() frees _all_ the dynamic structures inside of the rtip. |
| 17:03.08 | Maloeran | Valgrind, boehm... Personally, I found that the best tool to investigate memory leaks is a wrapper around malloc/free/realloc |
| 17:05.15 | Maloeran | BRL-CAD of course has an interface on top of these, but I haven't looked if it can be used to trace leaks |
| 17:08.56 | Maloeran | ( The pseudo-function to get addresses of calling functions, useful for such debugging, is a GCC extension though ) |
| 17:20.03 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128565171.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 17:20.46 | ``Erik | boehm is a wrapper that stubs in place of malloc/free/realloc/calloc |
| 17:24.04 | brlcad | libbu does have it's own memory bounds checking that works pretty well |
| 17:24.41 | ``Erik | bounds, yes, but does it retain alloc lists and look for 'forgotten' bits? |
| 17:25.09 | brlcad | i tend to prefer valgrind's even over the *alloc/free wrappers though as it generally does a much better job and often detects things that other approaches won't/can't |
| 17:25.49 | ``Erik | valgrind seems pretty married to leenewx, though |
| 17:26.00 | ``Erik | efence, boehm, ccmalloc, dmalloc... those're pretty portable |
| 17:28.43 | brlcad | sushi:~/brlcad morrison$ ./a.out 300120 malloc 20 alloc 300128 free free |
| 17:28.46 | brlcad | ERROR bu_free(x300128, free) pointer bad, or not allocated with bu_malloc! Ignored. |
| 17:29.27 | ``Erik | ah, so bu keeps its own malloc info ontop of the system malloc info |
| 17:29.39 | ``Erik | *ponder* |
| 17:30.01 | ``Erik | free(bu_malloc()-bumallocstructsize); hehehehe |
| 17:30.13 | brlcad | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2661afe4 |
| 17:31.50 | ``Erik | <-- gonna build sunos 5.8 using gnu toolchain first, then if that works, try sunwpro |
| 17:32.06 | brlcad | sounds good, what I usually do too |
| 17:32.26 | brlcad | cause if sunwpro doesn't work, not a big deal .. so long as one of the two does easily |
| 17:33.03 | brlcad | and if it just requires a few tweaks, it can always be annotated in doc/README.Solaris |
| 17:34.27 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/castle.png |
| 17:34.30 | IriX64 | :) |
| 17:34.57 | ``Erik | now back in the day, it was a beefy machine... I must be gettin' spoiled, dual 450mhz usparcIIi just seems sssssooooooo ssssssllllllooooooowwwwwwww |
| 17:35.01 | brlcad | the reason valgrind tends to do better than the wrappers is why it's (unfortunately) linux-specific .. performance counters and other low-level issue |
| 17:35.09 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 17:35.13 | ``Erik | um |
| 17:35.19 | ``Erik | there's one in chud, right? |
| 17:35.27 | ``Erik | not bigtop, um, ... hrm, not saturn I don't think |
| 17:35.30 | brlcad | yeah, it's not too shabby either |
| 17:35.39 | ``Erik | the frankenstein one? |
| 17:35.44 | brlcad | yeah, something like that |
| 17:35.48 | brlcad | two of them actually |
| 17:35.54 | brlcad | one that watches cocoa memory allocations |
| 17:36.00 | brlcad | another that watches all allocations |
| 17:36.02 | ``Erik | <-- has used shark and the ogl profiler, not the others really |
| 17:36.11 | ``Erik | and shark usually from the command line |
| 17:36.17 | brlcad | i've only used it a couple times to notice that it was pretty cool |
| 17:36.28 | brlcad | shark from the command line .. o.O |
| 17:36.30 | ``Erik | shark -i ./myprog ; open *mshark |
| 17:36.36 | brlcad | ah, heh |
| 17:37.11 | poolio | brlcad: any luck? |
| 17:37.41 | brlcad | poolio: was waiting on the new report, or did I miss it? |
| 17:37.52 | poolio | hehe, it's on the way, one sec |
| 17:37.55 | brlcad | so line numbers match up |
| 17:37.59 | poolio | yeah sorry |
| 17:38.07 | poolio | make just finished :\ |
| 17:38.09 | brlcad | pretty sure I see the offsets, but I'd rather not guess |
| 17:41.19 | poolio | rawr! I set the wrong prefix and now I have to rebuild. d'oh |
| 17:42.04 | brlcad | hehe |
| 17:42.09 | brlcad | you don't have to install |
| 17:42.16 | brlcad | you can run in place |
| 17:42.42 | brlcad | just have to be sure to wrap correctly so it doesn't pick up installed libs |
| 17:44.09 | poolio | yeah but I already uninstalled previous |
| 17:44.18 | poolio | and I'd like to have it installed |
| 17:44.28 | poolio | so I'll just do some more code clea up |
| 17:45.45 | brlcad | gah, silly system doesn't have a functional 64-bit libX11, but *does* have functional 64-bit libGL |
| 17:45.56 | brlcad | that's really fscked up |
| 17:46.53 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:46.54 | poolio | can 64bit libGL even function without a 64bit X11? |
| 17:47.09 | ``Erik | if it has another display path, sure |
| 17:52.09 | ``Erik | hah |
| 17:52.15 | ``Erik | "Frist Post!!!11eleven!!!1" |
| 17:54.33 | brlcad | hm, probably just need to make the OGL interface check for both ogl and x11 since it's really x11-specific |
| 17:56.26 | poolio | ahhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 17:56.30 | poolio | my laptops at 83C |
| 17:56.35 | poolio | my legs burn. |
| 17:59.37 | ``Erik | man, that pastebin sucks, it doesn't have syntax highlighting for uh.. uhhhhh.... uhhhhhhhh.... erlang! |
| 17:59.50 | poolio | haha |
| 17:59.51 | ``Erik | (damn that's a lot of highlighting options) |
| 18:00.24 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:00.32 | poolio | brlcad: http://rafb.net/p/w7nvet33.html |
| 18:02.19 | brlcad | thx |
| 18:02.29 | ``Erik | hum, no captcha, wonder how long before it starts seeing spam |
| 18:03.24 | brlcad | yeah figured id just see how long it takes |
| 18:16.56 | ``Erik | into liboptical on solaris with the gnu chain |
| 18:35.58 | poolio | brlcad: I really fail to see why when using rt_clean() there's still a memory leak according to valgrind |
| 18:59.41 | poolio | brlcad: it's also giving me a lot of whining about unitialized values that are for sure initialized |
| 19:00.50 | brlcad | example of one? |
| 19:01.48 | poolio | ==20025== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s) |
| 19:01.48 | poolio | ==20025== at 0x491F397: __printf_fp (in /lib/i686/cmov/libc-2.5.so) |
| 19:01.55 | poolio | ... |
| 19:02.07 | poolio | ==20025== by 0x8049578: main (beset.c:170) |
| 19:02.47 | poolio | And 27 more of those same contexts |
| 19:03.12 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.10.1.png :) |
| 19:03.28 | poolio | brlcad: Can I just pastebin the whole output? |
| 19:03.30 | ``Erik | that smells like gnu suckism |
| 19:03.37 | brlcad | poolio: yes please |
| 19:04.25 | poolio | brlcad: http://rafb.net/p/JlQa3L28.html |
| 19:05.42 | poolio | All of the still reachable blocks are leaked I think |
| 19:10.59 | poolio | Alright, but there's still massive memory leaks somewhere |
| 19:11.16 | poolio | I think the amount of memory leaked is proportional to the population size |
| 19:11.20 | poolio | that doesn't help much though |
| 19:12.06 | ``Erik | line 556 seems to be the biggy |
| 19:12.47 | poolio | You mean 566? |
| 19:12.55 | poolio | brlcad said 556 was known |
| 19:12.57 | ``Erik | yes, sorry |
| 19:13.07 | ``Erik | the gettree stuff |
| 19:13.12 | poolio | yeah |
| 19:13.20 | poolio | shouldn't rt_clean() properly free that stuff? it looked like it did |
| 19:14.07 | ``Erik | man, solaris is wigging out my nfs server here, heh |
| 19:15.50 | ``Erik | huh, why is it count+1? ( |
| 19:16.41 | poolio | where? |
| 19:18.49 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 19:19.02 | poolio | ``Erik: oh, it includes the current node as part of the count so that it plays nicely with db_count_tree_nodes |
| 19:19.24 | ``Erik | ah |
| 19:19.58 | poolio | ``Erik: were you referencing the return 1+n1+n2? |
| 19:21.28 | ``Erik | src/librt/tree.c:233 :) |
| 19:22.06 | poolio | aha! so that's never being free'd? |
| 19:22.37 | ``Erik | prep has some free's around there, mebbe it's missing those cases |
| 19:23.53 | ``Erik | are you calling rt_clean() or rt_del_regtree() ? |
| 19:24.01 | poolio | rt_clean() |
| 19:24.03 | ``Erik | hrm, ye syou are |
| 19:24.45 | ``Erik | librt/prep.c:891 should be taking care of that :/ |
| 19:24.47 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-228-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:26.42 | ``Erik | ahhh, the +1 is to dump in a null terminator |
| 19:28.00 | ``Erik | hummmm |
| 19:28.55 | ``Erik | you might hack up librt, have a static counter initialized to zero, inc it in tree.c and dec it in prep.c and after the rt_clean, see what that # is, then set it to 0 if you'r egoing to make another pass? |
| 19:29.02 | poolio | But still, try running the program, it goes crazy with memory, talking a couple hundred megs |
| 19:29.37 | poolio | ``Erik: hmm worth a shot, I'll have a go |
| 19:29.38 | ``Erik | to see if you're alloc'ing different amounts? it may be that you get a failed alloc in the middle of the alloc loop, and the dealloc stops at the fail instead of the end? |
| 19:31.13 | ``Erik | that's only 650k, it lists 420 megs as still reachable at the end |
| 19:31.20 | ``Erik | heh, accidently msg'd that to brlcad |
| 19:33.39 | poolio | yeah, the 420megs it's what's messed up |
| 19:33.42 | poolio | let me re-run valgrind |
| 19:33.57 | ``Erik | if it's reachable, valgrind won't magically find it |
| 19:34.05 | ``Erik | I mean, you grok what it means, right? |
| 19:36.29 | poolio | grok? |
| 19:38.10 | ``Erik | understand... really well... |
| 19:39.46 | poolio | reachable means there's still a pointer to it but it wasn't freed at exit, right? |
| 19:41.59 | poolio | brlcad/``Erik: it looks like the big memory leak is also related to the bu_ptbl_init |
| 19:49.46 | ``Erik | well, it's free'd at exit() (or, rather, _exit() or whatever exit() calls) |
| 19:50.15 | poolio | yeah the issue is it fills up my memory during run-time and I need to free it before exit() |
| 19:50.20 | ``Erik | but it means that there is still a legitimate way to get to that allocated data via the current stack, globals, or statics |
| 19:50.33 | ``Erik | I'd hope you're not using globals or statics |
| 19:50.46 | poolio | mmmmmaayyyyyyybeeeee |
| 19:50.49 | ``Erik | I thought you had to free it between iterations |
| 19:50.57 | poolio | free what? |
| 19:51.02 | poolio | Well yes |
| 19:51.06 | poolio | that'd be true, during iterations |
| 19:51.07 | ``Erik | the mountains of iteration specific data? :) |
| 19:51.10 | poolio | *in-between as you said |
| 19:51.31 | ``Erik | having reachable data at exit() isn't a bad thing |
| 19:51.52 | ``Erik | no modern OS has system leaks from os space anymore, I think an early win95 was the last to do that |
| 19:51.52 | poolio | I understand, but I have _too much_ reachable data at exit() |
| 19:52.24 | ``Erik | is it building up over iterations? like from not freeing iteration specific stuff? |
| 19:53.07 | poolio | Seems like it |
| 19:53.23 | poolio | The longer it runs the greater the memory used |
| 19:53.39 | poolio | And the amount of data the program should be using shouldn't be growing from iteration to iteratin |
| 19:53.44 | ``Erik | the results you posted are from a single iteration? |
| 19:53.49 | poolio | no |
| 19:53.52 | poolio | I think there were like 10 |
| 19:54.04 | poolio | I need to go help jump my mom's car, I'll be back in a bit. |
| 20:13.22 | poolio | k, i'm back |
| 20:13.29 | poolio | brlcad: so any ideas? |
| 20:19.13 | brlcad | is pop->parent[0] the best or worst after sorting |
| 20:19.44 | poolio | brlcad: worst |
| 20:20.06 | brlcad | k |
| 20:21.26 | ``Erik | the globals in population.c would be my best guess for growth at this moment... |
| 20:21.41 | poolio | ``Erik: Yeah...but they're just pointers |
| 20:21.59 | poolio | I use them when searching for individuals to crossover or mutate |
| 20:22.13 | ``Erik | ... pointers are what you're looking for, dude :D |
| 20:22.27 | poolio | well they're pointers to things that are handled elsewhere |
| 20:23.04 | ``Erik | mebbe write some quick recursive 'count' functions for 'em to see the size, and print those values between iterations? |
| 20:23.15 | ``Erik | or null them out between iterations so valgrind can give you better info |
| 20:24.57 | poolio | Yeah that was a really nasty solution there.. |
| 20:25.12 | poolio | I think when I came up with it, it was just going to be temporary |
| 20:25.26 | poolio | but I don't see a better way other than passing it as an argument |
| 20:25.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:27.05 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: initialize some vars |
| 20:35.18 | ``Erik | bah fek |
| 20:35.21 | poolio | brlcad: you fixed the comments, but just FYI the user passes a number and that number is treated as a percentage. So it's keep upper n%, but internally I store it as keep upper n where n != n% |
| 20:35.53 | brlcad | k |
| 20:36.38 | poolio | brlcad: so it's a good practice to initalize my variables even if I know they will not be used uninitialized? |
| 20:37.58 | brlcad | yes |
| 20:38.12 | ``Erik | gcc's warnings will usually flag that situation |
| 20:38.26 | ``Erik | it's good practice to have your CFLAGS include something like -W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic |
| 20:38.27 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:38.28 | poolio | yeah I test with -Wall as well as a few others |
| 20:38.33 | poolio | ``Erik: :-) |
| 20:38.46 | poolio | sometimes I hate -pedantic though... |
| 20:38.55 | ``Erik | yeah, it's so... pedantic |
| 20:39.29 | brlcad | it's generally good practice as someone down the road might not necessarily be using the same compiler, same conditions, or even worse as the code changes over the years |
| 20:39.46 | poolio | lies! it shall never change ;) |
| 20:40.12 | brlcad | someone edits the code in a couple years (maybe even yourself) and those same assumptions that "some intermediate call" happened to initialize it may no longer hold |
| 20:40.23 | poolio | true true. |
| 20:40.27 | ``Erik | code that never changes generally does so because no one ever uses it... |
| 20:40.35 | ``Erik | I mean, the freakin' LANGUAGE changes |
| 20:40.47 | brlcad | sure it's a problem down the road, but it's easy enough to just initialize, makes debugging easier too as they're in a known state at the start of the stack |
| 20:42.24 | poolio | ==21574== 15,531,368 (74,128 direct, 15,457,240 indirect) bytes in 31 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 10 of 10 |
| 20:42.28 | poolio | ==21574== at 0x40227EF: calloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:279) |
| 20:42.30 | poolio | ==21574== by 0x4759652: bu_alloc (malloc.c:284) |
| 20:42.33 | poolio | ==21574== by 0x4760078: bu_ptbl_init (ptbl.c:77) |
| 20:42.35 | poolio | ==21574== by 0x42453BD: rt_init_resource (prep.c:648 |
| 20:43.28 | brlcad | one step at a time |
| 20:43.29 | poolio | Goes up ~1mb/s |
| 20:43.35 | poolio | :) |
| 20:43.46 | brlcad | did the printf's go away? |
| 20:44.14 | poolio | no. |
| 20:44.35 | brlcad | so there's still something there, I'm just not seeing it |
| 20:44.44 | poolio | something where? in my stuff? |
| 20:44.53 | brlcad | if it was just some glibc issue, it'd be on other printf's |
| 20:45.18 | brlcad | it's on a specific one |
| 20:45.18 | poolio | true |
| 20:45.23 | poolio | it could be possible it is uninitialized |
| 20:45.23 | brlcad | that's valgrind giving you a hint |
| 20:45.28 | poolio | but the program outputs reasonable results |
| 20:49.02 | poolio | eek. 82C. (doing a larger run |
| 20:49.03 | poolio | ) |
| 20:50.58 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h population.c population.h): no need to malloc a single struct once, just use it |
| 20:52.04 | poolio | fstate? |
| 20:52.54 | brlcad | that's another one |
| 20:52.58 | poolio | brlcad: longer run: http://rafb.net/p/JWdT8589.html |
| 20:57.32 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/population.c: some documentation. re-initialize global vars every iteration. |
| 20:58.42 | poolio | brlcad: are you dealing with fstate? I can do that if you want |
| 21:00.56 | brlcad | go for it |
| 21:01.07 | poolio | k |
| 21:05.16 | poolio | eek I broke something. |
| 21:07.57 | poolio | brlcad: going to pick up car, back in 10 |
| 21:08.11 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c): quell several warnings |
| 21:08.14 | brlcad | be sure to update, I think I missed some parens on that first update |
| 21:08.18 | brlcad | cya |
| 21:20.06 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.56 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 21:42.30 | poolio | Bad magic number in re_solid_btiv list |
| 23:13.53 | brlcad | poolio: are you compiled optimized or debug? |
| 23:28.17 | brlcad | some big issue with your usage of the resource structure, curious to see how things look after refactoring fstate |
| 23:28.45 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:14.59 | poolio | brlcad: ah crud. I thought I committed fstate, I didn't, d'oh. one sec. |
| 00:15.15 | poolio | forgot to put in password. d'oh. |
| 00:15.53 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h): fixed some bugs recently introduced. fstate no longer malloc'd |
| 00:17.35 | poolio | brlcad: hmm. I think I'm actually compiled optimized. I'm guessing that's bad? |
| 00:34.11 | brlcad | yeah, makes debugging a lot harder |
| 00:34.19 | brlcad | particularly because of inlining |
| 00:34.37 | brlcad | otherwise valgrind is saying you've got stack corruption |
| 00:35.09 | poolio | alright, so enable debugging when I build? |
| 00:39.53 | poolio | brlcad: when I enabled debug nothing changed... I guess it was already enabled? |
| 00:41.39 | brlcad | debug is enabled by default |
| 00:41.49 | brlcad | there is that summary at the end, it tells you what you have :) |
| 00:41.56 | poolio | yeah yeah :P |
| 00:42.00 | brlcad | it's also in your config.log near the end |
| 00:42.10 | poolio | So debug is enabled, as well as optimized |
| 00:42.32 | brlcad | so disable-optimized |
| 00:42.58 | brlcad | or keep a separate tree |
| 00:43.07 | brlcad | since it takes your box a while to recompile |
| 00:43.18 | brlcad | and you probably want optimized for the test runs |
| 00:44.51 | poolio | ugh :\ |
| 00:45.44 | poolio | brlcad: k, ill copy the directory and build without optimized, then get back to you when that's done. |
| 00:46.24 | brlcad | see ya in an hour :) |
| 00:53.36 | louipc | hmm |
| 00:57.04 | louipc | when I try to display spkr.s from radio.g mged exits |
| 00:58.25 | brlcad | your radio.g that you made presumably? |
| 00:59.44 | louipc | oh yeah I guess I must have made it long ago from the tutorial |
| 01:00.01 | louipc | actually it's not specific to that file I tried something else |
| 01:02.08 | poolio | brlcad: my laptop is melting. :( |
| 01:02.44 | brlcad | louipc: can you display anything? |
| 01:02.51 | brlcad | poolio: how about a fan? :) |
| 01:03.18 | brlcad | my old laptop used to get so hot, I kept a small fan blowing on it all the time |
| 01:03.58 | poolio | brlcad: hmm. where? the underside? |
| 01:04.22 | louipc | brlcad: yeah I was able to display the antenna and then I tried the spkr then it exited I will try in classic mode |
| 01:05.42 | brlcad | poolio: no, just blowing across the keys is often enough to strip away the heat |
| 01:06.00 | brlcad | takes a few minutes of course, but it does the trick |
| 01:06.32 | brlcad | louipc: cool, I suspect it's crashing for some reason -- if you can reproduce it in classic, try doing it through gdb in classic |
| 01:06.57 | poolio | brlcad: not bad. 13 minutes to compile. |
| 01:10.28 | poolio | brlcad: http://rafb.net/p/GdkYhX91.html |
| 01:10.56 | louipc | yep same stuff. classic at least tells me 'Illegal Instruction' before quitting |
| 01:11.20 | brlcad | poolio: did you leave off all the preceeding or was that everything? |
| 01:11.48 | poolio | brlcad: I left off preceeding |
| 01:11.54 | poolio | brlcad: here's with --show-reachable also http://rafb.net/p/IgdRHb93.html |
| 01:12.10 | poolio | Note: all the previous errors happen before the main generation loop |
| 01:12.28 | brlcad | i mean like the printf stuff |
| 01:12.36 | poolio | yeah one sec |
| 01:12.39 | poolio | that shows up before the program output |
| 01:12.50 | brlcad | that's okay, it's still saying there's a potential problem |
| 01:13.06 | poolio | lemme just copy it all :) |
| 01:13.07 | brlcad | it's like compilation errors/warnings, should take care of them in order |
| 01:13.11 | brlcad | as many cascade |
| 01:13.28 | poolio | would you like --show-reachable or no? |
| 01:15.04 | brlcad | doesn't matter yet |
| 01:15.08 | brlcad | default output is fine |
| 01:15.13 | poolio | k |
| 01:15.21 | poolio | so you dont even want --leak-check? |
| 01:16.05 | brlcad | leave them both in |
| 01:16.14 | brlcad | shouldn't matter, there's plenty to work with :) |
| 01:16.28 | brlcad | each one of those could take an hour or 30 seconds |
| 01:16.34 | brlcad | or longer |
| 01:16.41 | poolio | eeeek. |
| 01:17.12 | poolio | brlcad: http://poolio.org/~poolio/valgrind_output |
| 01:17.14 | brlcad | the ptbl one is surprising -- it should leave a few bytes, but certainly not accummulate like that |
| 01:17.34 | poolio | well remember how many times I'm calling everything...a whole hell of a lot |
| 01:18.08 | poolio | note: that's the output from a run with pop size of 20, 50 generations, and 10x10 rays |
| 01:18.47 | brlcad | I know, but when I said it was a "known issue", it's only known that there is a final allocation that is not freed until exit |
| 01:18.55 | poolio | ah I see |
| 01:19.00 | brlcad | even subsequent calls to init should clear out the previous |
| 01:19.10 | brlcad | so either there is a call missing or a leak in the library |
| 01:19.24 | brlcad | i'd still start from the top of that list, though |
| 01:20.09 | brlcad | are you up to date and commited? |
| 01:20.36 | poolio | yep. |
| 01:21.58 | louipc | in spkr.s tor 16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1 |
| 01:22.10 | louipc | that causes mged to quit with "Illegal Instruction" |
| 01:22.56 | brlcad | louipc: that's working fine for me here |
| 01:23.18 | brlcad | what version are you on? |
| 01:23.26 | brlcad | cvs head? |
| 01:23.38 | louipc | yea |
| 01:23.52 | brlcad | stack trace? |
| 01:24.13 | brlcad | gdb --args mged -c test.g in spkr.s tor 16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1 |
| 01:24.18 | brlcad | run |
| 01:24.19 | brlcad | bt |
| 01:24.26 | brlcad | pastebin :) |
| 01:25.49 | louipc | ahh I was trying to figure that out |
| 01:32.31 | louipc | hopefully that's useful :) http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11583 |
| 01:33.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 01:33.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: remove the 'automatic flags' configure option (royal pita to keep track of |
| 01:33.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: cleanly in the configure logic for trivial gain) for now; rename the aquatk |
| 01:33.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: configure option to be consistent with the others and make it actually pass that |
| 01:33.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: on to tk's configure; and add a proper JavaVM framework check, using it instead |
| 01:33.31 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: of a platform test. |
| 01:36.50 | brlcad | hm, interesting trace .. it's trying to draw the tor so it did make it |
| 01:37.43 | poolio | brlcad: do you have time now to go over the valgrind output or would you rather do it later? (I have some other things to do that are flexible but I'd rather not just sit around :)) |
| 01:37.47 | brlcad | poolio: if you add this to main, is there still the qsort in the output: |
| 01:37.47 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:37.53 | poolio | ah k, one sec. |
| 01:38.43 | brlcad | it's really odd that it's whining about uninitialized values -- there's only three params |
| 01:38.49 | brlcad | pop and the function |
| 01:39.03 | brlcad | so I'm thinking it's pop |
| 01:39.25 | brlcad | and the conditional is the fact that pop_init() could conceivably be overridden at run-time |
| 01:39.39 | brlcad | that would then explain printf as well |
| 01:40.46 | poolio | brlcad: err nope. |
| 01:40.56 | brlcad | seriously? damn. |
| 01:41.10 | poolio | unless I'm executin the wrong binary |
| 01:41.28 | brlcad | how are you running it? |
| 01:41.36 | poolio | valgrind .libs/beset |
| 01:41.52 | brlcad | eepish |
| 01:42.04 | brlcad | ldd .libs/beset |
| 01:42.23 | poolio | you desire that output |
| 01:42.23 | poolio | ? |
| 01:42.38 | brlcad | you have to wrap (so either adding valgrind to the wrapper script or setting ld_lib manually |
| 01:42.50 | brlcad | I suspect it says /usr/brlcad/... |
| 01:42.57 | poolio | nope |
| 01:43.05 | poolio | I have them in /usr/lib |
| 01:43.10 | poolio | --prefix=/usr |
| 01:43.11 | poolio | I'm lazy like that. |
| 01:43.14 | brlcad | okay, whatever your prefix is |
| 01:43.29 | brlcad | you know that will clobber some of your system libs on most linux systems |
| 01:43.40 | louipc | :D |
| 01:43.42 | poolio | Probalby, but I'm reinstalling the distro when I'm done working |
| 01:43.49 | poolio | So it doesn't really matter much |
| 01:43.57 | poolio | good to knwo though :) |
| 01:44.18 | brlcad | the most common is usually librt |
| 01:44.43 | brlcad | which is a deprecated "real time compatibility" library that they've been planning to ditch for many years |
| 01:44.56 | brlcad | our librt predates them by about a decade too, but that's just the way things are |
| 01:45.31 | brlcad | similarly libbu and libbn conflict with some packages like curl also has a (private yet installed) "big number" library named the same |
| 01:45.53 | brlcad | er, not curl .. maybe openssl, one of those guys |
| 01:46.03 | poolio | fight it out for rights to library names |
| 01:46.03 | brlcad | and a handful of others |
| 01:46.29 | brlcad | oh, we've stood our ground to date, though it does make integration with package management systems complicated |
| 01:47.41 | brlcad | plus we really can't for the core libraries for many many reasons (and that includes the most often conflicting, libbu, libbn, librt) |
| 01:49.32 | brlcad | louipc: did you compile with -ffast-math? |
| 01:49.50 | brlcad | I see that it's optimized, I'm wondering if it's bad math juju |
| 01:52.38 | poolio | brlcad: pardon my lack of bash scripting, but what exactly does ${1+"$@"} do? an array of |
| 01:52.49 | poolio | $@ is arguments? |
| 01:57.27 | poolio | ah I see |
| 01:58.37 | brlcad | it's just a quirky way of expanding the arguments |
| 01:58.49 | brlcad | "$@" expands to the command line arguments |
| 02:00.50 | brlcad | it makes more since if it includes the : |
| 02:01.02 | brlcad | i.e. ${1:+"$@"} |
| 02:01.08 | poolio | brlcad: no change |
| 02:01.25 | brlcad | which means .. "if it has $1 set, then substitute $@" |
| 02:01.50 | poolio | yeah, I got the clue when I changed it and it sad bad substitution |
| 02:01.53 | poolio | s/sad/said |
| 02:02.03 | brlcad | $@ is basically $1 $2 $3 $4 ... |
| 02:02.33 | brlcad | so it's kinda fruity to do it that way, but it probably matters for some old system if someone did it that way |
| 02:02.37 | poolio | brlcad: http://poolio.org/~poolio/val |
| 02:03.08 | brlcad | ooh, i don't think i noticed cmd_ind before |
| 02:03.25 | poolio | cmp_ind? |
| 02:03.35 | poolio | it was there. same output :) |
| 02:04.27 | brlcad | yeah, I see it now |
| 02:05.04 | brlcad | so it's basically saying either the pop element is potentially uninitialized for some reason, or fitness specificially is |
| 02:05.16 | brlcad | that's.. |
| 02:05.19 | brlcad | odd |
| 02:06.15 | brlcad | er, not pop.. pop.parent |
| 02:06.21 | poolio | well it's potentially true if pop_spawn() wasn't called |
| 02:06.37 | poolio | pop.parent is alloc'ed but none of the variables are intiialized until pop_spawn() is called |
| 02:17.16 | poolio | brlcad: you might want to try running valgrind locally....I may have just royally fscked something on my end |
| 02:19.56 | brlcad | i was about to actually, to see if I can reproduce it |
| 02:20.02 | brlcad | what's your inputs look like? |
| 02:20.09 | poolio | ./beset source.g test.r |
| 02:20.30 | poolio | source.g is the database that contains test.r |
| 02:20.41 | poolio | test.r is just a region with two spheres unioned together |
| 02:20.54 | brlcad | louipc: looking at that function, the only thing I can see *might* be a problem is if you had non-ieee floating point -- do you have your config.log from the compile on hand somewhere? |
| 02:21.18 | poolio | Any region should do |
| 02:21.18 | poolio | in any database |
| 02:21.18 | brlcad | okay |
| 02:21.18 | brlcad | so no population sizes or iteration counts |
| 02:21.52 | poolio | it defaults to 50 pop size, i think 20 generations, and a resolution of 10x10, (doesnt kill/keep any lower/upper) |
| 02:22.00 | poolio | hmm |
| 02:22.10 | poolio | lemme update options documentation, forget the -u -l |
| 02:27.28 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: documented -u and -l options |
| 02:45.29 | poolio | brlcad: no luck? |
| 02:45.49 | poolio | ah alright :) |
| 02:46.27 | brlcad | (whilst shaiking fist at louipc..) |
| 02:48.05 | brlcad | he either uncovered something rather surprising that hasn't come up in at least a decade, or something entirely different is going on with that crash |
| 02:48.58 | brlcad | either way, I have to rebuild now cause of core changes |
| 02:58.21 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 03:44.41 | poolio | brlcad: sorry to keep bugging you, I'm just kind of clueless as to what to do from here... it seems like there is some sort of overflow somewhere but it doesn't make much sense and I feel like it'd be segfaulting if that was the case |
| 03:45.17 | louipc | brlcad: I rebuilt with debugging symbols and made a more detailed trace http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11584 |
| 03:57.02 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754591.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 04:30.22 | poolio | tis not possible! brlcad left :o |
| 06:15.10 | *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 07:16.06 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 09:14.45 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 12:25.32 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-92-250.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 13:10.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:10.55 | ``Erik | all your connection are belong to me |
| 13:26.13 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:13.05 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-025-240.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 16:10.43 | poolio | brlcad: anything? |
| 17:14.29 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 17:31.41 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD runs on solaris 5.8 with the gnu build chain, just ran mged and did a few traces of sphflake |
| 17:41.09 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 17:42.39 | PrezKennedy | shazaam! |
| 17:44.46 | poolio | ``Erik: you know where brlcad has disappeared to? |
| 17:45.30 | PrezKennedy | he is among us! a commoner :-O |
| 17:47.47 | ``Erik | ummmm |
| 17:49.29 | ``Erik | lets see, on saturday he's flying, which means today he's holed up and out of site tying to push 7.10.2 out the door |
| 17:49.37 | ``Erik | out of sight |
| 17:49.46 | poolio | crap. |
| 17:49.57 | ``Erik | anything I can do for ya? |
| 17:50.26 | poolio | ``Erik: if you have the time, I've got some odd leaks...The issue is that I'm trying to do larger test runs...and it leaks so much that it locks my system up (uses up all memory and swap) |
| 17:50.29 | ``Erik | <-- not as versed in the finer guts of the package, but likes to pretend he's not a complete retard once in a while |
| 17:50.47 | poolio | ``Erik: eh, you know much more than I do, any help would be appreciated, I'm pretty stuck |
| 17:50.49 | ``Erik | is valgrind reporting it as reachable memory? |
| 17:50.59 | poolio | ``Erik: valgrind output is here: http://poolio.org/files/val |
| 17:51.09 | poolio | ``Erik: some of it, a lot of it is lost |
| 17:52.13 | ``Erik | 10-13m lost, 5 reachable |
| 17:52.15 | ``Erik | um |
| 17:52.32 | ``Erik | what if you do what it says on the last line and run i with --leak-check=full ? :D |
| 17:52.40 | poolio | yeah sure |
| 17:53.32 | poolio | maybe? not sure. changes from run to run so it's probably pid |
| 17:53.53 | ``Erik | <-- generally only touches linux when porting, so is not that familiar with valgrind |
| 17:54.00 | ``Erik | as my rant yesterday may've indicated :) |
| 17:54.11 | poolio | :) if you want you could use whatever you use on it locally |
| 17:54.45 | poolio | it's in cvs src/gtools/beset |
| 17:55.05 | ``Erik | <-- has no source data or clue of how to use it :) |
| 17:55.15 | ``Erik | also; when I try compiling it with my happy flags, it breaks like a mofo |
| 17:55.49 | poolio | source data is simple |
| 17:55.53 | poolio | a database, with a region in it |
| 17:55.55 | poolio | that's all it needs |
| 17:56.23 | poolio | ``Erik: oh yeah. I can probably fix that. What flags are you using again? (relevant pedantic/warnings etc..) |
| 17:56.27 | ``Erik | so I could make a sphere or metaball and just use that? your code voxelizes and then tries to regenerate the initail data from the voxelized set? |
| 17:58.12 | ``Erik | -W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -O3 -march=opteron |
| 17:58.15 | ``Erik | or so |
| 17:58.40 | poolio | Jah :) Not exactly voxelized but close enough. It stores the rays |
| 17:59.17 | ``Erik | well, that's one mechanism for voxelizing |
| 17:59.49 | ``Erik | no one said it has to be a regular grid... indeed, many have moved to irregular tetrahedral grids |
| 17:59.59 | poolio | ah alright, then yes. |
| 18:00.34 | poolio | ``Erik: oh, the issue is my use of // ... that's not in C89 I think |
| 18:00.53 | ``Erik | no, // was introduced in c99 |
| 18:01.02 | ``Erik | and we're still c89 ansi for the most part |
| 18:01.27 | ``Erik | I did a sed -i.bak 's,//.*,,' *.[ch] the other day and still got build errors, iirc |
| 18:01.28 | poolio | Alright, brlcad said it was fine though, and I'm too lazy to change thar gith now. Most of the // comments are ones that are temporary while it's in active development. |
| 18:01.36 | ``Erik | using gcc42 |
| 18:01.59 | poolio | well I might have some weird comments that are in odd forms |
| 18:02.18 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 18:02.30 | ``Erik | initially, I did something like s,//\(.*\),/* \1 */, |
| 18:02.42 | ``Erik | but was foiled by things that looked like // blah /* something */ |
| 18:02.55 | poolio | yeah |
| 18:04.04 | poolio | ``Erik: if you kill ansi and pedantic because of comments, and just use -W -Wall it works fine (there's some unused variable warnings that don't make sense to change) |
| 18:04.08 | poolio | well unused parameter |
| 18:07.58 | ``Erik | I can do it without the gooby flags, I mostly said that to piss ya off ;) |
| 18:08.27 | poolio | well, it's a good point. It will be cleaned up at some time. But it'd be great if you killed off your handy dandy flags and just let it build for now. |
| 18:08.37 | ``Erik | running an update now, but it'ts going vvvveeeerrrrryyyy slow. for some reason, my mac doesn't like tlaking nfs to my nfs server so much the last couple days |
| 18:08.54 | poolio | sorry |
| 18:09.37 | ``Erik | and the boy changed configure.ac, so I'll have to sit around waiting for autoregen after the update *sigh* |
| 18:09.46 | poolio | oh geez |
| 18:09.51 | poolio | cya in a couple days ;) |
| 18:10.53 | ``Erik | won't take QUITE that long |
| 18:10.57 | ``Erik | but won't exactly be instance :/ |
| 18:11.26 | ``Erik | instant |
| 18:11.33 | ``Erik | too much wow :( I suck |
| 18:11.44 | poolio | You play WoW? |
| 18:12.25 | ``Erik | yes :( |
| 18:12.29 | ``Erik | gf made me, now I'm hooked |
| 18:12.43 | ``Erik | ffs, 3 instances of 'scrub' running on the same fs at the same time, wtf |
| 18:13.01 | poolio | Wait wait. Your girlfriend made you play WoW? That's awful. Quit while you still can |
| 18:13.53 | ``Erik | hah |
| 18:14.07 | ``Erik | she was pissed at me yesterday cuz I kept playing wow |
| 18:14.23 | ``Erik | and my lower level char is higher than her high level one |
| 18:14.52 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-106-16.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:15.45 | poolio | Quit. |
| 18:17.01 | PrezKennedy | wow sucks... |
| 18:17.21 | PrezKennedy | just had to get that out there ;-) |
| 18:17.22 | ``Erik | you suck |
| 18:17.31 | ``Erik | I'd say your mom sucks, but she's cool :/ so I can't do that |
| 18:17.47 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:17.58 | PrezKennedy | haha |
| 18:18.46 | ``Erik | (also; ben, my big tool for finding and fixing major leaks is "don't put them in there in thte first place" :D ) |
| 18:18.54 | ``Erik | debugging is a pain, so don't put the bugs in |
| 18:19.19 | poolio | Thanks ``Erik, maybe some day I'll be a better coder. |
| 18:19.44 | ``Erik | what's a good object to get your freaky behavior? is a sphere sufficient? |
| 18:19.53 | poolio | yeah |
| 18:20.00 | poolio | it's not caused by the input data |
| 18:20.10 | ``Erik | <-- has been coding for 24 years, is still trying to be a better coder |
| 18:21.24 | Laniakea | ``Erik: how old are you? |
| 18:22.41 | poolio | Run it like ./beset db.g region.r |
| 18:23.11 | ``Erik | ancient :( |
| 18:23.43 | ``Erik | not as old as john, though |
| 18:23.49 | ``Erik | <-- about to turn 31 |
| 18:29.06 | ``Erik | hum, ok |
| 18:29.12 | ``Erik | it ran in .25 seconds O.o |
| 18:29.21 | poolio | ``Erik: oh yeah, so if you want it to run longer |
| 18:29.27 | poolio | specificy some options to do so |
| 18:29.28 | poolio | so |
| 18:29.38 | poolio | ./beset -p 300 -g 100 -r 32 db.g region.r |
| 18:29.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:29.47 | poolio | ./beset for documentation |
| 18:29.49 | ``Erik | I did -p 1000 -g 1000 |
| 18:29.53 | poolio | errr |
| 18:30.03 | poolio | i mean, I have a slow laptop, so you might be able to take that |
| 18:30.03 | ``Erik | tat slows it down enough to watch it grow |
| 18:30.12 | ``Erik | quad opteron 2.0ghz with 8g ram |
| 18:30.20 | ``Erik | I figured I wanted a slower machine to do it on |
| 18:30.21 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:30.23 | poolio | yeah fair enough, I'm just not sure how to exit gracefully and have valgrind catch it? |
| 18:30.31 | ``Erik | no valgrind, not linux |
| 18:30.31 | poolio | ...that's slow? rawr. |
| 18:30.41 | ``Erik | the linux boxes are 8 core |
| 18:30.43 | ``Erik | is this threaded? |
| 18:30.50 | ``Erik | doesn't look like it |
| 18:30.51 | poolio | it was, I disabled the threading for testing |
| 18:31.10 | poolio | the codes in there, just commented out for now while I try to fix these leaks |
| 18:31.47 | ``Erik | ok, -p 1000 -g 10 takes 3sec, that should be sufficient |
| 18:32.00 | poolio | k :) |
| 18:32.24 | poolio | 3 seconds? geez man. |
| 18:32.27 | poolio | well I'm not running optimized |
| 18:33.32 | ``Erik | hum |
| 18:33.36 | ``Erik | beset in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense |
| 18:33.48 | poolio | where in beset? |
| 18:34.15 | ``Erik | heh, doesn't say, gonna add some stuf fin... happens at the very beginning |
| 18:34.39 | poolio | hmm alright |
| 18:34.46 | poolio | (no frees are directly called by beset.c) |
| 18:35.07 | ``Erik | no bound overwrites |
| 18:35.26 | poolio | that's good. does that mean there can't be any stack overflow? |
| 18:35.32 | poolio | well stack corruption |
| 18:35.58 | ``Erik | I'd assume |
| 18:36.35 | ``Erik | boehm seems to crash |
| 18:36.44 | ``Erik | probably from that pointer error |
| 18:37.03 | poolio | the free() one? |
| 18:37.22 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 18:37.44 | poolio | can you specify more t han free() in beset? there aren't any direct free()s called in beset.c is there a backtrace for it or something? |
| 18:38.04 | ``Erik | no backtrace, unfortunately |
| 18:38.26 | poolio | so the only thing youc an say is there's some bogus pointer being free()'d somewhere near the beginning of the program? |
| 18:39.09 | poolio | Could I narrow that down by adding some printf debugging output at certain intervals in between routines? |
| 18:39.31 | ``Erik | I can add those, just sit tight a few, I'm getting some environments rigged up |
| 18:39.32 | ``Erik | :) |
| 18:39.37 | poolio | Alright thanks |
| 18:39.51 | poolio | Oh wait...here's a big idea. Do I need to free the partition and segments list passed to the a_hit routine? |
| 18:42.34 | ``Erik | the junk pointer stuff is at _init() time :/ |
| 18:43.24 | ``Erik | uhmmmm, hrm, I'm not sure :) |
| 18:44.09 | ``Erik | I don't THINK so, but I'm not sure |
| 18:44.11 | poolio | So I really have no control over the junk pointer you're talking about right? |
| 18:44.56 | ``Erik | right |
| 18:45.11 | poolio | It doesn't look like I need to clean up the partitions/segments. g_qa doesn't |
| 18:45.26 | poolio | That's what I based the raytracing section of beset off of |
| 18:46.14 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:11.55 | poolio | hmm |
| 19:12.11 | poolio | I have some ideas for optimizations, but none for fixing the leaky software :P |
| 19:12.44 | ``Erik | how irritating, valgrind doesn't lilke amd64 |
| 19:12.50 | ``Erik | it seems it's JUST for i386 linux |
| 19:13.33 | ``Erik | and opennurbs sucks big hairy goat balls and has my mac build all plugged up |
| 19:13.44 | poolio | sorry |
| 19:16.52 | ``Erik | what if; |
| 19:17.15 | ``Erik | add externs in beset.c, then at the beginning of the loop in beset.c, null them out... and see if valgrind hleps there? |
| 19:17.20 | ``Erik | or did you try that already? |
| 19:17.41 | poolio | well, I null them at the beginning of pop_gop |
| 19:17.46 | poolio | so they are nulled each iteration |
| 19:17.53 | poolio | (before they are used) |
| 19:19.49 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 19:24.04 | poolio | ``Erik: I just updated CVS if you want to try it |
| 19:24.13 | poolio | also now you fun flags will work (except -Werror) |
| 19:24.28 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (6 files): now conforms to C89 |
| 19:52.36 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 19:52.50 | ``Erik | it doesn't look like the allocs that are leaking are in src/gtools/beset |
| 19:58.44 | ``Erik | hummmmm |
| 19:58.53 | ``Erik | iiiinteresting, |
| 19:59.07 | ``Erik | are any of these numbers magic? 36 4.5 2.25 |
| 20:07.52 | poolio | ``Erik: errr, not as far as I know |
| 20:08.55 | poolio | ``Erik: I remember brlcad saying something about bu_ptbl_init...maybe there? |
| 20:09.26 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 20:09.40 | ``Erik | there're 36 retained records for -p 1 -g 1 |
| 20:10.09 | ``Erik | when I bump it to -p 10 -g 1, it's 2.25x, and -p 1 -g 10 is 4.5x |
| 20:10.25 | poolio | weird |
| 20:11.05 | ``Erik | (and obviously, 2.25*2=4.5 |
| 20:11.06 | ``Erik | ) |
| 20:11.33 | ``Erik | (also; I wouldn't rule out g_qa leaking like a seive) |
| 20:11.39 | poolio | heh alright] |
| 20:12.22 | poolio | Something to note, -p 1 - g 1 doesn't do anything in terms of the GA. It spawns a population, saves that to a database, and exits. |
| 20:12.40 | poolio | well -p 1 means it'll just spawn one individual and save it to a database and exit |
| 20:12.41 | ``Erik | ok, right, because g-1 |
| 20:12.50 | ``Erik | so -g 10 does 0-8 |
| 20:12.57 | ``Erik | which seems... odd |
| 20:12.58 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:13.00 | poolio | well |
| 20:13.04 | poolio | it does 0-9 |
| 20:13.06 | poolio | (geenrates the population) |
| 20:13.11 | poolio | but we dont evaluate the fitness for the last generation |
| 20:13.19 | ``Erik | okie |
| 20:13.22 | ``Erik | well |
| 20:13.31 | ``Erik | hm |
| 20:13.36 | poolio | It has to do with the way the loop is worked |
| 20:13.45 | ``Erik | if -p 10 -g 1 shows growth |
| 20:13.59 | ``Erik | I'd assume that might mean your leak might possibly be in your population generation |
| 20:14.11 | ``Erik | maybe |
| 20:14.26 | poolio | spawn_first_generation(); for(each_generation){evaluate fitness of previous and spawn new generation} |
| 20:14.46 | poolio | Seems so, let me check. |
| 20:15.16 | poolio | ah d'oh. there is leakage there |
| 20:15.19 | poolio | let me fix that up |
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| 20:15.47 | poolio | I don't think mk_sph would (I think cleanup of the db ointer would do that) |
| 20:16.01 | poolio | mk_addmember might |
| 20:16.11 | poolio | well that'd be part of the wm_hd list cleanup I'm about to write |
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| 20:18.18 | IriX64 | testing found this ---> http://rafb.net/p/GJBQ0l79.html |
| 20:18.58 | ``Erik | yeah, it's in src/other so it's someone elses problem... there're a fistful of those in our code, too, I think |
| 20:19.24 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 20:19.35 | IriX64 | i'll fix my copy :) |
| 20:20.02 | poolio | ``Erik: none of the code in proc_db cleans up the wm_hd lists |
| 20:20.22 | poolio | I don't think it needs to be actually... but I'll try anyway |
| 20:20.40 | IriX64 | invoke mr_clean() :) |
| 20:21.55 | IriX64 | ahem, i return to my own trials and tribulations, sorry poolio :) |
| 20:22.04 | poolio | :( |
| 20:23.14 | ``Erik | poolio, it's highly possible that a lot of this stuff expects only one run and does not clean up, assuming the OS will clean up at exit... :/ you're presenting a unique challenge to the framework :) |
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| 20:24.54 | poolio | ``Erik: argh. Also: there's no de-init needed in pop_spawn() with the wm_hd...all of it should clean itself up at the end of the routine |
| 20:25.17 | ``Erik | once I have a re-done build |
| 20:25.23 | ``Erik | I'm going to commit grave fugliness |
| 20:25.29 | poolio | ah. which is? |
| 20:25.40 | ``Erik | and tap it with a debugger to see if I can get a stack trace on one of those leak points |
| 20:25.53 | poolio | alright, you're over my head. thanks a ton for the help |
| 20:26.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:26.19 | ``Erik | I have the addresses of the un-freed things |
| 20:26.38 | ``Erik | I'm going to put something in bu_malloc() that searches for some of those addresses |
| 20:26.53 | ``Erik | "if the pointer happens to be 0x080c2351, break to debugger" |
| 20:26.54 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:26.57 | ``Erik | hopefully it works |
| 20:26.58 | poolio | wow |
| 20:27.01 | poolio | that is really friggin fugly. |
| 20:27.11 | ``Erik | <-- king of ugly |
| 20:27.22 | ``Erik | but sometimes it works, then I look godlike :D |
| 20:27.34 | poolio | hehe |
| 20:28.03 | poolio | so you don't think the leaks have to do with anything I could fix in beset? |
| 20:28.08 | ``Erik | well |
| 20:28.12 | ``Erik | they're not actually leaks |
| 20:28.28 | ``Erik | just not freed when they should be... there's still a path to them |
| 20:28.44 | poolio | wait |
| 20:29.06 | poolio | so most of the memory leaks are reachable things that were allocated in the stack and weren't properly freed when their respective routines exited? |
| 20:30.07 | ``Erik | no |
| 20:30.30 | ``Erik | only active frames of the stack are considered |
| 20:30.48 | ``Erik | otherwise, valgrind SHOULD see it as an omfg leak |
| 20:30.54 | poolio | heh alright |
| 20:37.47 | IriX64 | mc |
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| 20:51.26 | ``Erik | iiiinteresting |
| 20:51.46 | ``Erik | oi, lee |
| 20:53.03 | iraytrace | Evenin |
| 20:53.13 | ``Erik | the first one is in rt_gettree() |
| 20:55.52 | poolio | maybe lee can fix all the bugs. :) |
| 20:56.12 | poolio | is this big boss man lee? |
| 20:56.36 | ``Erik | no, this is whipping boy expatiate lee :) |
| 20:57.08 | iraytrace | He's got *that* right. |
| 20:57.32 | poolio | ouch. |
| 20:57.34 | iraytrace | poolio: It's great too see what you've been doing |
| 20:57.39 | ``Erik | so your report was sat on past the deadline? |
| 20:57.50 | iraytrace | :-( |
| 20:58.00 | iraytrace | There's more to it than just that |
| 20:58.24 | poolio | iraytrace: thanks. It's been quite slow and frustrating though. I expected to be so much further so much faster. |
| 20:58.53 | ``Erik | poolio, this is what I'm looking at now, as the 'first possible culprit': http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d43fc0cc6 |
| 20:59.13 | poolio | valgrind picked that up |
| 20:59.26 | poolio | let me find the valgrind snippet |
| 20:59.31 | poolio | (not in that much detail of course) |
| 21:02.15 | poolio | ``Erik: http://rafb.net/p/McsUKV59.html <-- valgrind gets it too |
| 21:04.07 | ``Erik | hum |
| 21:05.03 | poolio | hmm |
| 21:05.57 | poolio | so another possibility, I remember brlcad talking about offsets in the internal objects. I currently write the same internal object from one database into the next database without modifying the internal object in any way (just creating a new directory in the new database). Is there something i need to do to the rt_db_internal structure before I write it out to the new database? |
| 21:06.20 | ``Erik | <-- has no idea |
| 21:07.01 | poolio | hmm. I think it's not that. I feel like that would manifest itself as collisions between to rt_db_internal structs with the same offset and blow up. But it appears that the code works fine aside from the leaks. |
| 21:08.01 | poolio | (and the databases aren't corrupt or anything) |
| 21:08.29 | poolio | Also, that whole situation of copying internal objects doesn't occur with a generation size of one |
| 21:16.13 | poolio | Oh. That's a pain. |
| 21:17.18 | poolio | It looks like it is rt_gettree(). It does happen with g=1 because I raytrace the region that is passed as an argument and rt_gettree() is called on that |
| 21:20.58 | ``Erik | based on how it's used elsewhere |
| 21:21.21 | ``Erik | hum, I was looking at this line before, heh |
| 21:21.44 | ``Erik | wait, you don't prep, do you? |
| 21:21.53 | poolio | rt_prep()? I do |
| 21:22.01 | poolio | ah does that call gettree? |
| 21:22.35 | ``Erik | no, that's what cleans up gettree |
| 21:22.43 | poolio | oh |
| 21:23.50 | poolio | look at fit_rt() in fitness: rtip = rt_new_rti(db); rt_gettree(rtip); rt_prep(rtip); ...shoot rays... |
| 21:24.00 | poolio | and finally rt_clean(rtip) |
| 21:25.01 | ``Erik | not rt_free_rti() ? |
| 21:25.19 | poolio | no |
| 21:25.31 | poolio | I previously had rt_free_rti() but siwtched to rt_clean(). Do I need to do both? |
| 21:25.51 | ``Erik | rt_free_rti() calls rt_clean() and does some other stuff |
| 21:26.01 | poolio | hmm ok |
| 21:26.33 | poolio | rawr. |
| 21:26.42 | poolio | Why did I change it to rt_clean()????????? |
| 21:27.51 | poolio | err still get the rt_gettree leak |
| 21:31.23 | ``Erik | hum, actually, I think we found different things O.o |
| 21:32.36 | poolio | hmm? |
| 21:32.52 | poolio | I have a feeling I'm not properly comprehending what is allocated and unallocated in the rtip |
| 21:33.10 | ``Erik | heh, same here |
| 21:33.50 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:34.09 | poolio | is that different than rt_uniresource? |
| 21:40.45 | poolio | ``Erik: argh I have to go, but I'll be around later. If you come across anything just write it in here or send me an e-mail and I'll see it in a couple hours. Thanks again for all the help |
| 21:42.15 | ``Erik | np |
| 21:47.55 | ``Erik | http://egv8.game.googlepages.com/home |
| 22:00.29 | iraytrace | The rt_uniresource is a single resource allocated by the library |
| 22:00.43 | iraytrace | For multiple, the application has to alloc/dealloc |
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| 02:14.22 | brlcad | poolio: you can't use the uniresource for multi-cpu |
| 02:14.47 | brlcad | it's specifically (and staticly) meant for single-cpu routines only |
| 02:15.09 | brlcad | any other use would probably fall under the "unexpected behavior" if not a slew of other .. "issues" |
| 03:46.36 | poolio | brlcad: yeah, but I've cut it down to one cpu while I test |
| 03:46.46 | poolio | I'm using uniresource and settings the number of CPUs to 1 |
| 04:09.41 | brlcad | k, thought I saw a patch that tried to used the uni for many is only reason I mentioned it |
| 04:10.47 | brlcad | I'm packing up now, getting ready for my flight, so I'll not be on-line much until Saturday "probably" .. airports are more connected these days and I did get ssh over ssl set up nicely so I might be on hand at least listening |
| 04:13.34 | PrezKennedy | where ya flying to? |
| 04:14.06 | poolio | brlcad: hmm alright, I'm flying to Chicago tomorrow :P |
| 04:14.12 | poolio | (just for the weekend) |
| 04:14.57 | poolio | brlcad: I guess I'll keep trying to see what I can get done on my own, although I'm not sure there's much. There's some more code that can be cleaned up, and I have some ideas for optimizations I can put in |
| 04:15.37 | poolio | brlcad: Do you want me to send you the monthly report or send it to Mary Jane as you'll be gone? |
| 04:16.41 | brlcad | tomorrow as in Sat? |
| 04:17.20 | poolio | ah no |
| 04:17.21 | poolio | later today |
| 04:17.23 | brlcad | :) |
| 04:17.25 | poolio | oops ... damn day changed. |
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| 04:27.22 | brlcad | gah |
| 04:27.36 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:31.27 | poolio | hehe |
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| 11:43.42 | thing0 | hey yall |
| 12:17.58 | poolio | mornin |
| 12:24.52 | thing0 | evening |
| 12:24.53 | thing0 | hehe |
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| 19:00.23 | Laniakea | ``Erik: have you succeeded installing OpenBSD? |
| 19:03.51 | ``Erik | heh, nope :) |
| 19:04.35 | ``Erik | *ponder* |
| 19:05.14 | ``Erik | I wonder if obsd can run diskless using PXE to boot and using an NFS share (on a fbsd box) as the core fs? |
| 19:19.27 | Laniakea | I don't know |
| 19:27.12 | ``Erik | SWEET, emacs crashed |
| 19:29.32 | Laniakea | ``Erik: but I would expect boot from network should be supported |
| 19:30.06 | Laniakea | I am actually now compiling Ronja with a non-functional brl-cad |
| 19:30.23 | Laniakea | seems that the pictures produced with rt are OK, makes a meaningful video. |
| 19:30.34 | Laniakea | maybe just the mged is screwed up because of the tcl/tk |
| 19:32.08 | ``Erik | rt doesn't use tcl |
| 19:32.34 | ``Erik | *ponder* |
| 19:32.36 | Laniakea | yeah |
| 19:32.50 | ``Erik | do you have autoconf, automake, and a lot of spare time? |
| 19:33.04 | Laniakea | autoconf automake yes |
| 19:33.16 | Laniakea | spare time do you mean human time or time running something in the background? |
| 19:33.25 | ``Erik | mostly machine time |
| 19:33.29 | Laniakea | yeah I have |
| 19:33.55 | ``Erik | if we were to, say, 'make distclean', edit configure.ac, change one line, run ./autogen.sh, then configure, then build... and see if that works? |
| 19:34.08 | Laniakea | but for about a week the Ronja will be compiled because a friend suggested the videos would look better from some elevation rather than from 0 elevation |
| 19:34.19 | Laniakea | so I am recompiling now everything with 15 deg elevation |
| 19:34.22 | ``Erik | configure.ac line 2530, and change where it says "*openbsd*" to "*openbsd-[[1-3]]*" ? (like the fbsd one) |
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| 19:35.15 | ``Erik | and the same on line 2642 |
| 19:35.27 | ``Erik | and 2739 |
| 19:36.02 | ``Erik | and 2852... um, any line that has 'openbsd' |
| 19:36.09 | ``Erik | in fact |
| 19:36.24 | ``Erik | sed -i.bak 's/openbsd/openbsd-[[1-3]]/' configure.ac |
| 19:37.06 | ``Erik | <-- under the impression that obsd4 introduced new library naming |
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| 20:43.42 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/vAxwK991.html <--- somethings missing here but i don't know the code so i'm stumped |
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| 20:54.38 | IriX64 | maybe it's me, if_wgl.c exhibits similar problems |
| 20:56.23 | IriX64 | bbl8r |
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| 21:30.25 | IriX64 | heh http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7-10.1inaction |
| 21:31.51 | IriX64 | thats with X-ming (chortle) |
| 21:39.44 | IriX64 | same url /editobject1.png :) |
| 21:39.59 | ``Erik | hum |
| 21:40.08 | IriX64 | boring eh? |
| 21:40.12 | IriX64 | :) |
| 21:40.41 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Skip if windows, if_wgl.c is for that |
| 21:41.05 | IriX64 | thank you |
| 21:41.16 | ``Erik | hopefully that fixes things, heh |
| 21:41.29 | IriX64 | but if_wgl.c has same type of issues, would you like a paste |
| 21:41.49 | IriX64 | heh fixed for unixland |
| 21:42.17 | IriX64 | ill do an update and try again |
| 21:44.38 | IriX64 | l8r |
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| 21:48.56 | ``Erik | oi, twingy |
| 21:49.03 | Twingy | greetings |
| 21:49.15 | ``Erik | I sent ya an email this morning, looking for the latest isst, is that on sf? |
| 21:49.31 | Twingy | um |
| 21:49.37 | Twingy | it's probably in my home directory |
| 21:50.28 | ``Erik | hum, if you get some free time on monday, think you could tar up a drop for me? ed wnats me to look at the cone/region thing |
| 21:51.00 | Twingy | well, I'm working sunday and taking monday off |
| 21:51.10 | Twingy | that way I can get some work done without being disturbed |
| 21:51.14 | ``Erik | <-- not in until tuesday and about to go home |
| 21:51.23 | ``Erik | if you happen to have 5 minutes *shrug* :) |
| 21:51.30 | Twingy | 5 minutes when? |
| 21:51.40 | ``Erik | um, whenever? heh |
| 21:51.47 | Twingy | you just need the files? |
| 21:51.49 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:51.55 | Twingy | I can send them to you tonight |
| 21:51.58 | ``Erik | ok |
| 21:52.09 | Twingy | I'll make a tar.gz and make sure they compile |
| 21:52.19 | Twingy | all the code is documented |
| 21:52.20 | ``Erik | cool, thanks |
| 21:52.29 | Twingy | there should be instructions on usage in the README |
| 21:52.36 | ``Erik | sweet |
| 21:53.02 | Twingy | if you look at the visible region shader |
| 21:53.26 | Twingy | that is a 20-30 line file that shows how to plug in your own code for visualization of whatever |
| 21:54.04 | ``Erik | at the moment, I'll probably do the q&d 'fire lots of rays in the cone and record what gets hit, then paint that a funny color on visualization' approach |
| 21:54.09 | Twingy | it may be prudent to throw away libtie with 5 functions and plug in rayforce |
| 21:54.36 | ``Erik | possibly, but that might take longer than I care to take :D |
| 21:54.45 | Twingy | otherwise you will be limited to a few million rays/sec |
| 21:56.19 | ``Erik | 'filevault' is a little off in its time estimates :/ by a factor of ~2 |
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| 21:57.46 | IriX64 | ``Erik? shouldn't the logic be if ogl and !wgl ? |
| 21:58.08 | IriX64 | stead of or |
| 22:03.36 | IriX64 | errand to run be back in 5 |
| 22:14.28 | ``Erik | erm |
| 22:14.34 | ``Erik | woops |
| 22:15.11 | IriX64 | heh |
| 22:15.19 | IriX64 | thatll still work :) |
| 22:15.41 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: oops, "and", not "or" |
| 22:39.17 | IriX64 | true beauty of this is it'll be running the unix code and with a handfull of dll's and an xserver for windows, anybody can have this on their desktop |
| 22:54.54 | IriX64 | hex.c on that site will make threaded bolts for you (not my effort) |
| 00:01.36 | ``Erik | I hope that doesn't mean I have to turn in my geek badge :( |
| 00:02.28 | ``Erik | (at least I'm grown up enough to admit it, unlike many 'prolific developers' if you watch the geek news lately) |
| 00:05.15 | ``Erik | wanna know what's funny? I tried to 'filevault' my dual g5 tower with an 80g drive today |
| 00:05.15 | ``Erik | it's about 60% full |
| 00:05.15 | ``Erik | it told me I have insufficient space, i'm ~4000gb short on hdd space |
| 03:17.01 | ``Erik | swank |
| 03:17.18 | ``Erik | how mayn $'s deep for the gear? |
| 03:54.56 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/SOJ32_PROTO_BOARD.jpg |
| 04:10.06 | louipc | Twingy: .0001 inch? |
| 04:10.18 | Twingy | 0.01" |
| 04:10.41 | louipc | that's 10 thou :D |
| 04:11.00 | Twingy | 10 mil, yes |
| 04:11.05 | Twingy | that's what I said |
| 04:11.24 | Twingy | 10 mil == 0.01" |
| 04:11.34 | louipc | ah I'm not familiar with that terminology usage |
| 04:12.29 | louipc | I learned and work with a bunch of british machinists that call it a 'thou' or 'thousandth' |
| 04:13.19 | Twingy | in the land of electronics everything is measure in 'mil' |
| 04:13.33 | louipc | ah |
| 04:14.46 | Twingy | I'll solder it on sunday |
| 04:15.01 | Twingy | will be easy |
| 04:15.09 | Twingy | not like a qfp100 |
| 04:15.25 | louipc | I couldn't say hah |
| 04:15.41 | Twingy | http://js.cx/~justin/images/QFP64_PROTO_PIC18F67J11.jpg |
| 04:15.47 | Twingy | ^-- those are annoying to solder |
| 04:16.48 | louipc | ouch must be, I've only ever soldered + and - wires to their places |
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| 10:58.38 | thing0 | heya |
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| 19:18.55 | louipc | hello |
| 19:35.37 | brlcad | howdy louipc |
| 19:37.11 | louipc | I was looking at g_torus.c to try and figure out what was going on :/ no clue |
| 19:37.37 | brlcad | really? |
| 19:37.58 | brlcad | all the g_*.c's are pretty simple -- set of callback routines |
| 19:38.02 | brlcad | unless you mean the actual math |
| 19:39.18 | brlcad | g_xxx.c will give you an idea of the overall structure |
| 19:39.22 | louipc | I did another trace that has more detail it looks like it shouldn't get to the line that the error is at |
| 19:39.25 | louipc | http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11584 |
| 19:39.29 | louipc | ok |
| 19:40.38 | brlcad | ray-tracing generally involves just three or so of he routines, a prep routine called before all the rays first, then a hit/shot routine that actually evaluates a ray against the primitive, and a normal routine that reports on the curvature (so it shades correctly) |
| 19:41.04 | brlcad | ahh, right -- you had the crash |
| 19:41.31 | brlcad | I have a big patch here that might actually fix the problem if it's what I think might be going on |
| 19:41.44 | louipc | aah sweet |
| 19:42.16 | brlcad | that's a BIG if |
| 19:42.33 | brlcad | it shouldn't be happening at all, even with non-ieee math |
| 19:42.43 | brlcad | did you compile optimized or with extra compilation flags? |
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| 19:43.00 | louipc | a lot of this is over my head, I just thought I might see if something looked off I've been able to fix other things like that |
| 19:43.32 | louipc | well that latest trace I turned off optimized ... it should be just plain then |
| 19:43.51 | brlcad | and it *still* crashed? |
| 19:44.03 | louipc | yep |
| 19:44.05 | brlcad | wow |
| 19:44.52 | brlcad | try applying this patch |
| 19:44.54 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/~sean/smallint.patch |
| 19:45.01 | brlcad | patch -p0 < smallint.patch |
| 20:01.32 | PrezKennedy | hey brlcad |
| 20:04.28 | brlcad | howdy PrezKennedy |
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| 20:09.30 | brlcad | geez, still don't get that crash, even with bad math unless the routines are returning NaN or something |
| 20:09.35 | louipc | what's fastf_t? |
| 20:09.41 | brlcad | that line it's crashing on is simply: 3.14159265358979323846 / .15692964165835220337 |
| 20:10.08 | brlcad | acos(1 - 0.26000000000000001) --> -.83307035834164779663 |
| 20:10.34 | brlcad | + .99 --> .15692964165835220337 |
| 20:10.44 | brlcad | fastf_t is double |
| 20:11.13 | brlcad | on most systems at least, potentially could be a float but that's on really old/obscure systems |
| 20:16.54 | louipc | hmm I see yeah it's odd |
| 20:20.35 | brlcad | the only thing that leaves if the stack isn't simply stomped (which doesn't seem to be the case in the backtrace) is that acos() is broken or bn_pi is corrupted (by some earlier problem) |
| 20:20.57 | brlcad | if you have it crash again, try "p bn_pi" if it crashes |
| 20:22.06 | louipc | in gdb right? |
| 20:22.10 | brlcad | right |
| 20:22.15 | louipc | ok |
| 20:22.19 | brlcad | but try the patch first, just curious if it makes any difference |
| 20:22.32 | louipc | it's building now |
| 20:22.49 | brlcad | shouldn't now that I see the values in your trace |
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| 22:10.13 | louipc | hmm |
| 22:10.34 | louipc | ok half_theta is 0 |
| 22:10.41 | louipc | divide by zero erro |
| 22:10.48 | louipc | bi_pi looks fine |
| 22:13.21 | louipc | cos_half_theta is also 0 hmmm |
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| 23:30.57 | MinuteElectron | I'm back. |
| 23:31.28 | MinuteElectron | I am at my father's house until Friday - he has 3 computers with the net so more than enough for everyone. Unlike my grandparents, who only have one. |
| 23:31.35 | MinuteElectron | brb |
| 23:32.01 | louipc | I only have 1 :/ |
| 23:32.15 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 23:32.32 | MinuteElectron | There are four people who want to use the computer at the same time at my fathers house. |
| 23:32.45 | MinuteElectron | Fourtunatley I have a Nintendo Wii that my brother can use. |
| 23:33.17 | louipc | :D |
| 23:33.33 | MinuteElectron | The one I am using ATM is the best in the house - but my Dad got it for free. |
| 23:34.30 | MinuteElectron | From a member of the family. |
| 23:34.49 | MinuteElectron | Who had a better PC. |
| 23:35.06 | louipc | hehe everyone pretty much as a better PC than me |
| 23:35.30 | MinuteElectron | spec? |
| 23:36.00 | louipc | PIII 866MHz |
| 23:36.06 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 23:36.43 | MinuteElectron | This one is 1.3GHz, but the one before this (from 1999) was only a PII. |
| 23:37.04 | louipc | ah |
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| 23:51.32 | MinuteElectron | detached |
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| 01:10.59 | louipc | poor CIA |
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| 05:27.04 | ewilhelm | siggraph: did anything ever come out of the nist SCL step parser? |
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| 15:50.34 | louipc | oh my |
| 15:53.39 | Maloeran | The hotel called me at 5am to tell me they received my luggage. I was a bit worried |
| 16:01.36 | louipc | wow where are you? |
| 16:16.14 | Maloeran | I'm at the Hilton San Diego Mission Valley, are you around San Diego? |
| 16:24.12 | louipc | I'm around toronto |
| 16:24.47 | louipc | but I'm going to LA in a couple of weeks (direct flight) yar har har |
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| 20:43.46 | ertugerata | salut |
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| 22:16.06 | siggraph | ewilhelm: yes and no |
| 22:17.12 | siggraph | a step converter (and everything related, which includes nurbs/brep, tessellation, and the actual step converter) are our #1 priority for the past and next 12 months (at least) |
| 22:17.47 | siggraph | basically, it's still under development.. a ton of effort has been put into nurbs/brep to date (which is pretty much requisite for full/proper step support |
| 22:21.17 | MinuteElectron | siggraph: How is LDAP going? |
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| 23:24.09 | ewilhelm | siggraph: thx. did narnia's work on the scl stuff get published? |
| 23:24.58 | ewilhelm | I'm looking at doing some work with IFC, so I think I'm going to be building some kind of express schema support code |
| 23:25.24 | ewilhelm | currently, the nist SCL code won't compile (and it looks like ./configure is a mess) |
| 23:34.18 | siggraph | louipc: good info! thanks .. if you've still got gdb handy, I've got some other things you could check that would help -- and I presume that the patch didn't fix the problem by itself? |
| 23:35.56 | siggraph | ewilhelm: narnia outright disappeared on me -- both he and I had fixed their build system (i.e. replaced it with a configure that actually works) but has not yet been integrated back into our repository because neither he or I got to a usable tool point |
| 23:36.17 | siggraph | could have been on a branch, but like I said .. he disappeared on me, and he was unfamiliar with cvs |
| 23:36.48 | siggraph | i could dig up what I have and commit it to a branch probably and get you access if you are interested in working on it |
| 23:37.36 | ewilhelm | sure, or e-mail me a tarball even |
| 23:39.04 | ewilhelm | looks like there was some other work at http://nwg.phy.bnl.gov/~bviren/uno/other/geant4.5.2-opt/source/geometry/solids/STEP/ |
| 23:39.35 | ewilhelm | though maybe that was a subset |
| 23:40.56 | siggraph | what's your work, if I may ask? |
| 23:41.14 | ewilhelm | http://scratchcomputing.com |
| 23:41.38 | ewilhelm | you might remember me from 2-3 years back |
| 23:41.50 | siggraph | oh, I remember exactly who you are :) |
| 23:42.01 | siggraph | i mean specifically what are you doing with step/express |
| 23:42.40 | ewilhelm | Industry Foundation Classes -- a Building Information Modeling exchange format |
| 23:45.13 | ewilhelm | for architecture/engineering/construction data |
| 23:45.13 | siggraph | so you're using step as your format? or express? or just importing/exporting step? |
| 23:46.18 | ewilhelm | IFC is derived from STEP/express |
| 23:47.14 | siggraph | derived as in a proper subset or an actual incompatible derivative? |
| 23:47.15 | ewilhelm | or, I suppose the correct way to say it is "defined as an express schema" |
| 23:47.21 | siggraph | ah, so same 'base language' but different schema |
| 23:48.00 | siggraph | akin to sgml and xml |
| 23:48.12 | ewilhelm | yeah, at least "as I currently understand it" |
| 23:48.48 | ewilhelm | still getting my head bootstrapped into it |
| 23:51.57 | ewilhelm | I guess 10303-11 is 'EXPRESS', which lets you define a schema (.exp file) which can then be referenced from a 10303-21 file with FILE_SCHEMA() |
| 23:52.22 | ewilhelm | e.g. ISO-10303-21; |
| 23:52.23 | ewilhelm | ... |
| 23:52.28 | ewilhelm | FILE_SCHEMA(('IFC2X2_FINAL')); |
| 23:56.19 | ewilhelm | IAI seems to be a little kinder about providing documents than ISO |
| 23:58.11 | siggraph | ~IAI |
| 00:00.27 | ewilhelm | http://www.iai-na.org/ |
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| 00:03.54 | siggraph | ~IAI is the International Alliance for Interoperability, a global standards-setting organization representing widely diverse constituencies from architects and engineers, to research scientists, to commercial building owners and contractors, to government officials and academia, to facility managers, and to software companies and building product manufacturers. See http://www.iai-na.org/ for details. |
| 00:03.55 | ibot | siggraph: okay |
| 00:15.16 | siggraph | ewilhelm: are you interested at all in working on a STEP processing library? if you are, I'm sure there's a lot we could do |
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| 01:35.20 | LinuxMafia | hi all |
| 01:35.56 | LinuxMafia | is there a command to say rotate 45 degree in x direction |
| 01:36.30 | LinuxMafia | any one here? |
| 01:42.33 | yukonbob | LinuxMafia: rot |
| 01:42.48 | LinuxMafia | yukonbob, tthanks so much |
| 01:43.31 | yukonbob | that'll rotate, or "ae" for absolute values |
| 01:43.35 | yukonbob | ie: ae 0 0 0 |
| 01:43.38 | yukonbob | ae 30 0 0 |
| 01:44.25 | yukonbob | i think ae only adjusts view though, not actual object. |
| 01:44.43 | LinuxMafia | ae is not rotate |
| 01:45.03 | LinuxMafia | yeah ae is vie |
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| 02:31.13 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mged.png and photon.png who says windows blows :) |
| 03:32.49 | louipc | siggraph: nope the patch didn't fix the problem :/ I still have gdb yep |
| 03:36.13 | louipc | I was going to try to step through it but it goes through a lot of code! |
| 04:29.42 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/helicopter.png (unix code on windows) |
| 04:42.23 | poolio | siggraph: are you still at siggraph? |
| 05:02.05 | ewilhelm | siggraph: atm, just seeing what's out there |
| 05:02.20 | ewilhelm | I'm definitely going to have to do some data-mining from IFC at some point |
| 05:02.52 | ewilhelm | if I understand it correctly, the SCL is something like "generate C++ classes from an EXPRESS schema" |
| 05:03.34 | ewilhelm | though I have my doubts about how pretty that will be in C++ |
| 05:04.37 | ewilhelm | ultimately, I would probably aim for a Perl binding with Inline or something |
| 05:04.54 | ewilhelm | but need to get a good handle on what that will entail |
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| 14:12.15 | poolio | damn time zones... |
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| 15:59.50 | poolio | is there a way to copy an object form one database to another? |
| 16:06.50 | archivist | I have to restrain myself from answering that as a mysql question where its easy |
| 16:08.03 | poolio | I guess I'll just write a simple program to do it myself |
| 16:08.25 | poolio | it's not too hard, I'm just not sure as to the command and am too lazy to research it heh |
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| 16:22.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h population.h): pre-generate and store identifiers. more cleanup |
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| 16:29.04 | ertugerata | salut |
| 16:30.10 | ertugerata | tarzeau: selam |
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| 17:08.31 | ertugerata | ilya quelqu'un peut m'aider pour les dependencies just de brlcad ? |
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| 17:33.45 | siggraph | poolio: yes, all week |
| 17:42.34 | siggraph | ertugerata: salut |
| 17:42.42 | poolio | siggraph: ayeeeee :) |
| 17:42.53 | poolio | siggraph: enjoy |
| 17:43.13 | ertugerata | siggraph: tu parle français ? ou no ? |
| 17:43.22 | siggraph | Eu não falo o português, mas eu posso tentar ajudar-lhe |
| 17:43.31 | poolio | je parle un peu de francais |
| 17:43.45 | poolio | c'est possible que je peut t'aider |
| 17:43.46 | ertugerata | poolio: moi aussi |
| 17:44.00 | siggraph | there are no "required" dependencies -- everything you need is in the tarball |
| 17:44.25 | ertugerata | siggraph: opennubs a problems |
| 17:44.26 | siggraph | at least other than a compiler, a shell, perhaps curses, and x11 |
| 17:44.46 | siggraph | ertugerata: what kind of problems? |
| 17:44.55 | poolio | ertugerata: quels problemes? |
| 17:45.13 | poolio | ertugerata: est-ce que vous pouvez mettre les erreurs ici: http://rafb.net/paste |
| 17:45.29 | ertugerata | une minute je vais reconstrure une fois |
| 17:45.33 | poolio | merci |
| 17:45.43 | siggraph | ~tr en fr you can try to use --disable-opennurbs with 'configure' |
| 17:46.24 | ertugerata | --enable-buildopennubs=no marche bien |
| 17:46.38 | tarzeau | ertugerata: saleykuem |
| 17:46.55 | ertugerata | tarzeau: türkçe anlıyor musun |
| 17:47.01 | siggraph | ~x en fr you can try to use --disable-opennurbs with 'configure' |
| 17:47.07 | siggraph | there we go |
| 17:47.14 | siggraph | heh, not very good :) |
| 17:47.25 | tarzeau | ertugerata: anliyorum biraz evet |
| 17:47.38 | louipc | there's a ./configurent script? |
| 17:47.41 | louipc | hehehe |
| 17:48.04 | siggraph | use --disable-opennurbs or --enable-opennurbs-build=no, but not --enable-buildopennubs=no |
| 17:48.09 | ertugerata | tarzeau: brlcad ı derlemeye çalışıyorum |
| 17:48.27 | ertugerata | opennubs u derleyince hata çıktı |
| 17:48.34 | ertugerata | bende disable ettim |
| 17:48.35 | tarzeau | ertugerata: valla tuerkcem cok sayif.. arti tuerk harfleri ?? isaret olarak gosteriyor |
| 17:48.42 | ertugerata | tmm |
| 17:49.00 | louipc | czech? |
| 17:49.03 | ertugerata | brlcad ı derlemeye calisiyorum |
| 17:49.29 | ertugerata | opennubs nedir |
| 17:49.56 | ertugerata | neden gereken her sey source da var onu soracam |
| 17:50.55 | siggraph | puedes escribir en español? |
| 17:51.57 | siggraph | quel es la problemes .. exact? |
| 17:52.21 | louipc | turkish maybe |
| 17:52.53 | siggraph | he started in french |
| 17:53.25 | ertugerata | siggraph: je vais reproduire bugs dans quelque minute |
| 17:53.32 | siggraph | k |
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| 17:54.10 | siggraph | and they're not bugs.. just build issues :) |
| 17:54.27 | ert76-pardus | ertugerata: ordamısın |
| 17:58.03 | ertugerata | siggraph: http://rafb.net/p/mlgmrl85.html |
| 17:59.00 | siggraph | ahh, that's an easy one |
| 17:59.09 | siggraph | those are libz symbols |
| 17:59.41 | siggraph | cd src/other/opennurbs && make LIBS="-lz" && cd ../../.. && make |
| 18:00.13 | poolio | siggraph: wOOt. fixed the biggest memory issue :) |
| 18:00.40 | poolio | wait no... |
| 18:00.43 | poolio | well one of them ... |
| 18:01.27 | siggraph | ertugerata: you need to add -lz to your LIBS -- so either during configure (./configure LIBS=-lz) or during top-level make (make LIBS=-lz) or in a specific directory |
| 18:01.38 | siggraph | poolio: coolio |
| 18:01.40 | siggraph | what was it? |
| 18:01.52 | poolio | hmm well I thought I fixed it, but now I'm not sure |
| 18:01.59 | siggraph | heh |
| 18:02.04 | poolio | I thought it was that some hist structs weren't being freed |
| 18:02.14 | poolio | so I added bu_hist_free() stuff to rt_cut_clean |
| 18:02.26 | poolio | but the lost memory is still there |
| 18:02.30 | ertugerata | siggraph:comme "./configure LIBS=lz" N'est pas |
| 18:03.17 | louipc | LIBS=-lz |
| 18:03.37 | ertugerata | thanks |
| 18:03.40 | louipc | moins |
| 18:06.13 | poolio | siggraph: did you ever figure out something with the bu_ptbl_init leaks? |
| 18:06.20 | poolio | I remember you were looking at them a couple days ago |
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| 18:06.59 | ertugerata | 2 eme problem: "prefix=/usr/brlcad" just ? |
| 18:09.18 | louipc | /usr/brlcad c'est le défault |
| 18:10.57 | ertugerata | merci bien |
| 18:13.23 | poolio | siggraph: is it possible valgrind is wrong? I mean...I mean I'm 99% sure that it is being free'd, but valgrind is still saying that the blocks are definitely lost |
| 18:13.36 | siggraph | poolio: I was looking at it, but I'd not finished -- I'd then moved to top of the list (which I still think is a problem too) |
| 18:13.51 | poolio | what's the top of the list? |
| 18:13.59 | poolio | the printf's? |
| 18:14.27 | siggraph | poolio: I've *yet* to see valgrind be wrong (through hundreds of runs on many many systems) .. even when I've thought it was wrong and keep looking.. it was eventually right |
| 18:14.47 | poolio | ok |
| 18:14.57 | siggraph | i mean theoretically it could possibly be wrong, but to date I've not seen even one instance |
| 18:15.16 | poolio | so most likely it is not wrong |
| 18:15.25 | siggraph | most likely |
| 18:20.12 | ertugerata | je vais packager brlcad pour pardus distro turc |
| 18:36.02 | ertugerata | 3 eme problem :comment je marche brlcad , est-ce que je peux faire .destop pour quelle executable ? |
| 18:36.48 | louipc | ertugerata: mged |
| 18:37.05 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 18:37.31 | ertugerata | si mged marche bien c'est fini ? |
| 18:37.40 | louipc | tu peut faire une .desktop si tu veut |
| 18:38.02 | ertugerata | pour mged ? |
| 18:38.23 | louipc | oui |
| 18:38.28 | louipc | et oui |
| 18:39.02 | ertugerata | une minute |
| 18:40.38 | poolio | siggraph: I'm a bit confused with some code...re_directory_blocks, memory for directories stored in the resource pointer... it seems it's nto being freed anywhere? where is the appropriate time to do so? It's commented out of rt_clean_resource but I can't see where it was moved to or if it was moved anywhere |
| 18:41.41 | poolio | (line 187 of prep.c) |
| 18:41.45 | poolio | src/librt |
| 18:42.46 | ertugerata | j'ai urt , iwidgets, itk and itcl separee , command va ajouter parametre configure ? |
| 18:43.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: free rti_hist_cell_pieces |
| 18:43.44 | poolio | :q |
| 18:44.49 | poolio | err |
| 18:44.57 | louipc | ./configure va détecté si tu l'as intallé automatiquement |
| 18:45.38 | ertugerata | si il ne trouve pas justement je peux aider comment ? |
| 18:45.57 | siggraph | ~louipc++ |
| 18:47.53 | louipc | je pense qu'il n'y a pas un fa |
| 18:48.04 | louipc | un façon de le faire |
| 18:48.53 | louipc | siggraph: you do you help ./configure find those installed dependencies if it can't? |
| 18:49.11 | siggraph | poolio: that could be why it's leaking .. I don't remember why it would be commented out other than some other situation where that was potentially causing some other issue -- guessing, have to look at the commit log or otherwise think about where it "should" be released (and rt_clean_resource sounds like 'the place' to me) |
| 18:49.26 | siggraph | louipc: what do you mean? |
| 18:49.32 | poolio | siggraph: well I kind of see why it shouldn't be released there |
| 18:49.49 | siggraph | you 'can' always help configure find things, but don't have to (at least you're not supposed to need to) |
| 18:50.12 | louipc | ertugerata asks if configure can't find them how can he help it? |
| 18:50.13 | siggraph | there are a few situations where you may need a cflag or an ldflag or a lib though |
| 18:50.23 | poolio | siggraph: I'm raytracing multiple objects from the same databse, leaving the database open the whole time. It looks like the resouce pointers link into the directory stucture, and freeing those blocks would mess up future iterations using the database |
| 18:51.10 | siggraph | have to find out why it didn't find them (and does he have a specific example of one) -- a common one for 7.10 is folks expecting it to find tcl/tk where we do specifically check for 8.5+ |
| 18:51.12 | poolio | siggraph: the reasoning the files gives is " 182 /* XXX These can't be freed here either, because we allocated |
| 18:51.15 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.18 | poolio | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.20 | poolio | " |
| 18:52.04 | poolio | I'm not quite sure I understand what that means, but it seems like we can't free the re_directory_blocks until we're done with the db_i? |
| 18:52.32 | siggraph | louipc: it could be a simple matter of the configure test just needing a -lz or some other flag, or it could be something more lower level -- details in config.log as to why it failed to find/use whatever feature/header/library/etc |
| 18:54.21 | poolio | carnegie mellon? |
| 18:54.28 | siggraph | yep |
| 18:54.29 | dtidrow_work | probably |
| 18:54.34 | poolio | put in a good word for me ;) |
| 18:54.38 | siggraph | heh |
| 18:54.41 | yukonbob | apparently there's a Spore (the game) talk too |
| 18:55.00 | poolio | sweet. can't wait for it to come out, sounds awesome |
| 18:55.02 | dtidrow_work | siggraph: color me green :-\ |
| 18:55.06 | siggraph | this paper is on really need plastic deformations |
| 18:55.12 | siggraph | s/need/neat/ |
| 18:55.19 | siggraph | dtidrow_work: hm? |
| 18:55.32 | dtidrow_work | green as in envious |
| 18:55.47 | siggraph | dtidrow_work: oh, you're not here this year?? |
| 18:56.00 | dtidrow_work | nope, wasn't in the budget |
| 18:56.09 | siggraph | ahh |
| 18:56.22 | dtidrow_work | so I'm stuck in my office this year :-( |
| 18:56.27 | siggraph | that's a shame |
| 18:56.38 | dtidrow_work | indeed |
| 18:56.49 | poolio | siggraph: maybe free re_directory_blocks in db_close? |
| 18:56.54 | siggraph | coulda gone.. had it not been for 'other' factors ;-) |
| 18:57.15 | siggraph | poolio: perhaps, though I'm not sure I believe that comment by itself |
| 18:57.42 | poolio | k. well I'm going to throw it in db_close() and see how it does. I won't commit it but I'll fool around with my local build |
| 18:57.48 | siggraph | heck, I might have even written that comment, seems familiar to an old issue |
| 18:57.49 | dtidrow_work | siggraph: http://blogs.zdnet.com/emergingtech/?p=651 <- check out this while you're there |
| 18:58.16 | poolio | aren't comments supposed to explain things ;) |
| 18:58.26 | siggraph | poolio: dbclose does sound like a great place for it since it's allocated during lookups |
| 18:59.54 | poolio | is it Ok to reference rt_uniresource from within db_close() I feel like it isn't |
| 19:00.02 | siggraph | dtidrow_work: hehe, okay |
| 19:00.16 | siggraph | what do you mean by reference? |
| 19:00.30 | siggraph | it's okay for routines to check if the resource being processed is the uniresource |
| 19:00.44 | siggraph | since it's memory is handled special (it's not malloced) |
| 19:01.44 | poolio | well can't you open/close databases without ever initializing rt_uniresource? or is it a global that's initialized with any program that links against librt? |
| 19:03.11 | siggraph | rt_uniresource is auto-initialized on first access (or can be manually initialized) |
| 19:03.36 | poolio | siggraph: note: that commented out freeing of re_directory_blocks exists in rt_free_rti() and rt_clean_resource() |
| 19:03.46 | poolio | rt_free_rti() calls db_close() |
| 19:03.48 | siggraph | if you do an rt_dirbuild() for example, the uniresource is initialized automatically if it's not been yet |
| 19:04.13 | poolio | so if there was a problem freeing re_directory_blocks in rt_free_rti I bet that same problem will be exhibited if I add it to db_close() |
| 19:04.30 | poolio | (as rt_free_rti() calls db_close_client() which calls db_close()) |
| 19:04.43 | poolio | and thanks for the uniresource clarification |
| 19:05.04 | siggraph | did the log have anything useful to say? |
| 19:05.09 | siggraph | regarding those comments |
| 19:05.11 | poolio | which one? |
| 19:05.30 | poolio | the changelog? haven't looked at it, should though :) |
| 19:05.56 | siggraph | the commit log often has additional detail, particularly if it was temporary |
| 19:06.51 | poolio | "if a raytrace instance isn't being provided, we can/could presume that cleaning up after the directories is okay. all of these issues stem from the two bu_ptbl_init() calls that do actually allocate memory (for the table). leave the freeing uncommited for now, just with comments" |
| 19:07.44 | poolio | hmm, I'm still confused |
| 19:08.37 | siggraph | who wrote that? |
| 19:08.50 | siggraph | (and when) |
| 19:08.51 | poolio | you :) |
| 19:08.58 | poolio | Sat May 19 07:00:15 2007 UTC (2 months, 2 weeks ago) by brlcad |
| 19:09.04 | siggraph | you should go talk to that person and see what they meant |
| 19:09.14 | poolio | shouldn't I? :) |
| 19:09.33 | siggraph | wow, two months ago.. huh |
| 19:09.56 | siggraph | i'll poke and look .. gotta run for a bit |
| 19:10.02 | poolio | k |
| 19:11.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: turn off opennurbs for now by default until work is more active again. opennurbs needs libz apparently, so include that as well as a dep. |
| 19:15.35 | poolio | somehow or another I still had rt_free_rti instead of rt_clean...I don't understand. I could have sworn I've changed that a billion times... |
| 19:15.52 | louipc | it keeps changing back? |
| 19:16.03 | poolio | or more likely, I've lost my mind |
| 19:16.12 | poolio | ah crap. I see...I was editing in the wrong build tree. d'oh. |
| 19:21.46 | *** part/#brlcad ert76-pardus (n=ert76-pa@88.243.251.139) | |
| 19:51.43 | ertugerata | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:51.43 | ertugerata | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Detached |
| 19:52.08 | ertugerata | ? |
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| 21:19.44 | poolio | siggraph: there's some sort of weird leak where the databases aren't being close because "others are still using this database" and I think that might have to do with the whole directory blocks thing |
| 21:23.29 | poolio | err nevermind. |
| 21:41.26 | poolio | siggraph: is there a reason there is no bu_semaphore_free? |
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| 16:11.36 | poolio | rawr. I broke my debian install :\ |
| 16:16.41 | ``Erik | heh, sweet |
| 16:18.12 | poolio | I've been fixing it since like 2am. |
| 16:18.30 | poolio | and then my LCD went haywire, but then magically started working again |
| 16:18.36 | poolio | so I made sure to image my HD while I slept... |
| 16:19.02 | ``Erik | so, uh |
| 16:19.04 | ``Erik | why'd you break it? |
| 16:19.04 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:19.08 | poolio | I didn't mean to |
| 16:19.22 | poolio | I was trying to run something and it required an older version of gcc |
| 16:19.31 | poolio | and then my whole libc was somehow corrupted |
| 16:19.35 | poolio | and the apt tools wouldn't run |
| 16:20.00 | poolio | so I was planning on reinstalling after I was done working this summer, but I decided to just go ahead and do it being as the system was pretty not functional |
| 16:20.01 | ``Erik | neat |
| 16:20.03 | siggraph | good morning peopls |
| 16:20.06 | ``Erik | dpkg stuff was broken, too? |
| 16:20.07 | poolio | mornin siggraph |
| 16:20.09 | poolio | how's siggraph |
| 16:20.20 | poolio | ``Erik: it wasn't broken, it just wouldn't fix the libc issue |
| 16:20.28 | siggraph | about to listen to what is probably the best paper |
| 16:20.31 | poolio | or I should say I couldn't |
| 16:20.36 | poolio | ...jealous |
| 16:20.38 | poolio | and which paper is that? |
| 16:20.44 | ``Erik | 'ways to make bzflag suck less'? *duck* :D |
| 16:20.54 | siggraph | automatic cutaway illustrations |
| 16:21.06 | ``Erik | hm, sounds interesting |
| 16:21.23 | siggraph | it's *impressive* |
| 16:21.32 | siggraph | s/automatic/interactive/ |
| 16:21.52 | poolio | you don't by any chance have a link to the paper? |
| 16:22.55 | siggraph | this is related: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1276377.1276416&coll=portal&dl=ACM&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618 |
| 16:23.21 | siggraph | the results made the siggraph cover |
| 16:23.58 | poolio | neat |
| 16:25.42 | poolio | siggraph: you ever figure out where to put the freeing of re_directory_blocks? |
| 16:42.10 | siggraph | poolio: eh, I've just now touched my laptop since the last time I talked to you, a bit busy :) |
| 16:43.11 | siggraph | that was a good paper.. we can implement it pretty easily too I think -- very useful |
| 16:46.48 | poolio | siggraph: alrighty |
| 16:47.22 | poolio | siggraph: it appears most of the memory leaks are cleared up. the program eats up all my RAM but it never exceeds it and never goes into swap. It hovers right around 990/1024MB |
| 16:47.44 | poolio | the bad thing is that the tests still aren't promising. even with the two-sphere trivial case it's hardly coming close to converging |
| 17:13.31 | poolio | SHIT |
| 17:13.35 | poolio | My display is spazing out again |
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| 18:10.37 | poolio | eeeeeeeek. |
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| 18:36.09 | ertugerata | salut |
| 19:03.00 | ertugerata | dans mon system iwidgets and urt exist , si j'utilse parametre --enable-build-urt=no and --enable-iwidgets-build=no configure script corrupt. |
| 19:21.51 | poolio | another bug bites the dust :) |
| 19:22.48 | poolio | ertugerata: qu'est-ce que vous voulez dire avec "corrupt" ? |
| 19:23.18 | ertugerata | configure est termine |
| 19:23.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: free mro structure |
| 19:24.15 | poolio | ertugerata: avec quoi? est-ce qu'il ya un erreur ou quelque chose? |
| 19:24.40 | poolio | lire "config.log" pour plus d'information sur la configuartion |
| 19:25.01 | ertugerata | on ne trove pas iwidgets and urt quand meme existe dans mon system |
| 19:25.10 | poolio | ah d'accord |
| 19:25.22 | ertugerata | et aussi http://rafb.net/p/RJy0VK85.html tu peut voire ça |
| 19:25.27 | poolio | merci |
| 19:26.26 | poolio | hmm, je ne suis pas sure, desole. je pense que c'est un probleme avec la versione de Tk que vous avez, mais je ne sais pas |
| 19:27.25 | ertugerata | poolio: merci |
| 19:27.34 | poolio | bon chance :) |
| 19:28.05 | ertugerata | mon tk a 8.5alpha6 version |
| 19:28.13 | poolio | je pense que ca c'est d'accord |
| 19:28.28 | poolio | etes-vous utilisant CVS? |
| 19:28.42 | ertugerata | no source 7.10 |
| 19:29.13 | ertugerata | CVS correct ou no ? |
| 19:29.39 | poolio | je pense que CVS est meilleur |
| 19:29.58 | poolio | ibot: cvs? |
| 19:29.59 | ibot | it has been said that cvs is concurrent versions systems. more info here http://www.cvshome.org/. |
| 19:29.59 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 19:30.04 | poolio | ... |
| 19:30.10 | poolio | ertugerata: un moment |
| 19:30.26 | poolio | http://www.brlcad.org/build_CVS.html |
| 19:30.52 | poolio | c'est possible que CVS marche meilleur pour vous |
| 19:31.13 | ertugerata | merci bien |
| 19:33.51 | poolio | siggraph: only bugs left are the re_directory_block and a tiny chunk for bu_semaphore, bu_semaphore_free exists but it's defined out for some reason |
| 19:47.08 | ``Erik | funny, I've been working on trying to get all that tcl 'junk' to use system shtuff today :) still haven't gotten iwidgets working against it, I think the tests don't grab the right libs? O.o |
| 19:47.37 | poolio | heh, so you guys are further away from release than I thought? |
| 19:48.29 | poolio | ertugerata: est-ce que vous comprenez? |
| 19:48.56 | ertugerata | poolio: download CVs maintenant |
| 19:49.12 | ertugerata | puis je vais builder |
| 19:49.17 | poolio | ertugerata: d'accord, mais ``Erik dit que CVS ne marche pas |
| 19:49.33 | poolio | il est un developer et il travaille sur la meme probleme |
| 19:49.41 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 19:49.50 | ertugerata | merci bien |
| 19:50.15 | poolio | il dit que maintenant, ce n'est pas possible d'utiliser la versione de iwidgets avec votre systeme |
| 19:50.31 | poolio | il faut qu'on utilise iwidgets en BRL-CAD |
| 19:50.45 | ertugerata | urt ? |
| 19:50.47 | poolio | je ne sais pas avec urt |
| 19:50.54 | poolio | ``Erik: you know if system urt works? |
| 19:51.06 | ``Erik | yes, that's fine |
| 19:51.45 | poolio | ertugerata: ^^ urt doit marcher |
| 19:52.03 | ertugerata | quand source sync vith cvs ? |
| 19:52.08 | ertugerata | poolio: merci |
| 19:52.24 | poolio | ertugerata: hmm...un nouveua release est proche, mais je ne sais pas quand exactement |
| 19:52.41 | ``Erik | URT has worked with the last many releases, back to the 7.4.0 days that I know of |
| 19:53.11 | ertugerata | C'est bien. poolio |
| 19:53.13 | poolio | ertugerata: URT doit marcher avec les source que vous avez (pas CVS) |
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| 19:53.27 | poolio | 7.10 source doit marcher |
| 19:53.36 | poolio | doit mais c'est possible qu'il ne marche pas :) |
| 19:53.53 | ertugerata | poolio: j'essaye mais ne maarche pas |
| 19:54.09 | ertugerata | peut-etre mon urt a des probleme ? |
| 19:54.13 | poolio | qu'est-ce que c'est l'erreur avec URT? |
| 19:54.15 | poolio | c'est possible |
| 19:54.22 | ``Erik | yes, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/Makefile?annotate=1.9 |
| 19:54.50 | ``Erik | 7.6.0 was when I can confirm that system URT has worked :) |
| 19:55.07 | poolio | est-ce que vous pouvez mettre config.log sur http://rafb.net/paste ? |
| 19:55.22 | poolio | ou la partie de configure avec le URT erreur |
| 19:55.43 | poolio | ``Erik: fixed that bug with attr_values we were looking at the othe rday |
| 19:55.58 | ertugerata | poolio: je l'ai perdu |
| 19:56.05 | ``Erik | cool, what was it? |
| 19:56.42 | poolio | ertugerata: je ne peux pas vous aider si je n'ai pas l'erreur, est-ce que c'est possible de ./configure encore? |
| 19:56.46 | poolio | (pardonner mon franglais) |
| 19:57.30 | poolio | ``Erik: it just wasn't being freed properly on rt_clean(). It just ran bu_mro_free which assumes that the mro struct was allocated in the stack, so I had to bu_free() the mro struct along with bu_mro_free()ing it |
| 19:57.47 | poolio | just commit'ed it a sec ago |
| 19:58.02 | ``Erik | ah, the cleaning *SHOULD* happen in prep... |
| 19:58.10 | ``Erik | if I read the code right |
| 19:58.14 | ertugerata | poolio: je vais reprodure dans 5 minete |
| 19:58.28 | ertugerata | minute |
| 19:59.41 | poolio | ertugerata: merci beaucoup |
| 20:00.12 | poolio | ``Erik: hmm? what cleaning? the mro struct should be free'd in rt_prep? |
| 20:01.34 | ``Erik | um, I mean the attr stuff, but I gotcha know, missed that :) |
| 20:03.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: assume OpenBSD 4+ can deal with dots in the .so name |
| 20:03.46 | poolio | ``Erik: any clue on this http://rafb.net/p/nE7AV443.html ... hard to debug :P |
| 20:04.27 | ``Erik | do you have a debugging libc handy? or, um |
| 20:04.35 | poolio | nope |
| 20:04.43 | ``Erik | use, uh, nm to get symbol addy's and try to match those addresses to a name |
| 20:04.48 | ``Erik | or objdump |
| 20:04.53 | poolio | ah k |
| 20:05.19 | ``Erik | assuming those aren't munged by relocation |
| 20:05.20 | ``Erik | :( |
| 20:07.23 | poolio | hmm it looks like it's shifted or something? |
| 20:07.38 | poolio | like objdump -x address don't correspond to valgrind output |
| 20:07.47 | ``Erik | ok, then it's been relocated |
| 20:08.16 | ``Erik | if you can shove a debugging libc on and link (or prebind) it, then the stabs info will tell you the function name |
| 20:08.23 | ``Erik | uhm |
| 20:08.31 | poolio | hmm, that's a bit over my head |
| 20:08.32 | ``Erik | or it'll have it avialable, I dunno if valgrind is that cool |
| 20:08.48 | poolio | I think I'll let it be for now :) |
| 20:08.53 | ``Erik | STABS is a format for debugging data |
| 20:09.00 | ``Erik | kinda like COFF and DWARF |
| 20:09.04 | poolio | k |
| 20:09.33 | ertugerata | poolio: tres long |
| 20:09.43 | poolio | ertugerata: je sais :) |
| 20:09.45 | ertugerata | je l'envoie ici |
| 20:10.08 | poolio | ou? |
| 20:10.09 | ertugerata | accept svp |
| 20:10.15 | ertugerata | irc |
| 20:10.24 | poolio | un moment |
| 20:12.42 | poolio | ertugerata: ah envoi un autre fois s'il vous plait |
| 20:13.12 | poolio | ca dit que vous avez mettre invalid parameters |
| 20:13.18 | poolio | envoi par e-mail :) |
| 20:13.20 | ertugerata | poolio: je l'envoie |
| 20:13.38 | ertugerata | mail adress ? |
| 20:14.04 | ``Erik | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/dc727094 heh, takes a long time :) |
| 20:15.56 | poolio | eeek I'd imagine |
| 20:18.18 | ``Erik | <-- doing that after every change to configure.ac :/ trying to get iwidgets to pass |
| 20:18.29 | poolio | lame. |
| 20:18.39 | poolio | what system you on? |
| 20:18.54 | ``Erik | quad opteron with 8g ram, it's a pretty beefy footrest |
| 20:19.47 | ``Erik | the nfs hit for my ~ is probably the big sticker |
| 20:22.53 | ``Erik | hum, storm moving in, I'll have to roll up my windows soon |
| 20:23.27 | poolio | Which way is it moving? |
| 20:23.43 | ``Erik | east |
| 20:23.46 | ``Erik | http://www.weather.com/weather/map/interactive/21005?from=36hour_map_large&zoom=7&interactiveMapLayer=radar |
| 20:25.01 | poolio | hmmm |
| 20:29.48 | poolio | hey ``Erik, I'm trying to help ertugerata with getting his system URT working |
| 20:30.08 | ``Erik | ok? |
| 20:30.09 | poolio | it fails the test in configure but when he runs the code snippet outside of configure it works fine |
| 20:30.22 | ``Erik | what's config.log say about it? |
| 20:31.11 | poolio | http://rafb.net/p/P7DvzS47.html |
| 20:31.51 | ``Erik | the error will be up, search backwards for lrle or cc or something, or just scroll up |
| 20:31.52 | poolio | HAVE_RLE_H = 1 |
| 20:32.06 | poolio | oh dur |
| 20:32.07 | poolio | thanks |
| 20:32.13 | ``Erik | the format is "try to compile, show the error, print out the program I tried o do" |
| 20:32.13 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:33.06 | poolio | hmm |
| 20:33.18 | poolio | so if the proper libray isn't linked then it should be added? |
| 20:33.30 | ``Erik | in theory... |
| 20:33.50 | ``Erik | is it not named 'librle.so'? |
| 20:34.40 | poolio | there's no librle.so being linke dto |
| 20:35.11 | ``Erik | interesting |
| 20:35.45 | ``Erik | it should try -lutahrle, then -lrle if that fails |
| 20:36.11 | ``Erik | around line 1305 of configure.ac |
| 20:36.33 | poolio | http://rafb.net/p/3z6XZ659.html |
| 20:36.42 | ``Erik | there's also some testing around 2350 |
| 20:37.04 | poolio | ah I see, he needs -L/usr/lib not just -L/usr/local/lib |
| 20:37.35 | ``Erik | ld should know /usr/lib by default |
| 20:37.35 | ``Erik | um |
| 20:38.11 | ``Erik | on leenewx, it used to be /etc/ld.so.conf I think? |
| 20:38.11 | ``Erik | it's still that on bsd *shrug* |
| 20:39.54 | poolio | ``Erik: well the issue is it doesnt look like it's trying to link against rle |
| 20:41.00 | ``Erik | yes, you should crack open configure in your favorite editor, go to that line and see why :D |
| 20:41.11 | poolio | rawr. |
| 20:41.49 | ``Erik | while I prepare to put a boot up tcl's tailpipe for vexing me :) |
| 20:41.50 | ``Erik | unless, of course you have a fix for: can't read "tcl_library": no such variable |
| 20:42.27 | poolio | I do. create a tcl_library variable. |
| 20:43.04 | ``Erik | hehehe it's supposed to be created by Tcl_CreateInterp(), and that does get called and succeeds |
| 20:43.19 | ``Erik | (and I think the variable is in tcl land, not C land) |
| 20:44.45 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 21:05.06 | ``Erik | wow, that got ugly fast |
| 21:06.46 | ``Erik | yeah, brlcad is gonna crap himself when I commit this... MWAHAHAHAHA |
| 21:09.48 | poolio | ruh roh. |
| 21:10.01 | poolio | while brlcad is out ``Erik will play |
| 21:10.26 | ertugerata | il ya une problem avec enigma en CVS ? |
| 21:10.40 | poolio | avec enigma? |
| 21:11.28 | ertugerata | pas problem je crois |
| 21:11.40 | poolio | d'accord? |
| 21:11.47 | ertugerata | autıogen.sh ne marche pas just |
| 21:11.58 | ertugerata | je vais faire demain |
| 21:12.00 | poolio | quelle est l'erreur? |
| 21:12.03 | poolio | ah d'accord :) |
| 21:12.33 | ertugerata | oui |
| 21:12.48 | ertugerata | je vais dormir je suis tres fatigue |
| 21:12.55 | ertugerata | a bientot |
| 21:13.00 | poolio | mais oui, au revoir |
| 21:13.49 | *** part/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.224.38.9) | |
| 21:14.59 | ``Erik | hah |
| 21:15.02 | ``Erik | what timing |
| 21:15.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 21:15.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Several fixes for the Iwidgets test: link itcl, initialize tcl before itcl, and |
| 21:15.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: search the 'package names' even if the 'package require' claims to have failed |
| 21:15.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (TK version issue caused require to report failure, but actually succeed). |
| 21:21.59 | poolio | hehe |
| 21:22.32 | poolio | it's still not too ugly |
| 21:23.24 | ``Erik | the ternary to pump strtok is the only bit that might skeer newbs, I'd hope |
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| 06:27.12 | poolio | siggraph: AHA! AHA!!! |
| 06:27.47 | poolio | siggraph: I finally figured out why the GA wasn't really working and now I want to shoot myself. It was actually working pretty well, the issue is that it has a hard time dealing with source objects with a lot of empty space |
| 06:28.21 | poolio | Because there was so much empty space in my two seperated spheres trials, the network had a hard time. It was being rewarded largely for not matching at all (lots of similar empty space) |
| 06:28.53 | poolio | Testing it on a cluster of 3 spheres works out nicely, the GA does produce better results as the generations increase :D |
| 06:29.55 | poolio | I want to shoot myself for just sticking to using that one example as a benchmark for the past few weeks. |
| 06:30.08 | poolio | I always assumed it was the code that was at fault and not the test data. |
| 06:45.56 | poolio | siggraph: pretty graph if you ever read this: http://poolio.org/files/working.png |
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| 14:11.55 | poolio | mornin |
| 14:17.19 | ``Erik | oi |
| 14:18.50 | poolio | oy vey? |
| 14:24.40 | ``Erik | heh, I spell mine japanese style, sorry :) lots of cultures have the same sound with roughly the same meaning |
| 14:30.14 | poolio | oy. |
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| 15:54.27 | poolio | hey ``Erik, do you know if there's a way to find a kind of "bogus" union...between an object and another object that fits inside that other object? |
| 15:59.59 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 16:00.18 | poolio | The CIA is going crazy. |
| 16:21.22 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 16:31.50 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 16:48.47 | ``Erik | poolio:not mathematically, but it could be sampled with buttloads of rays |
| 16:49.29 | ``Erik | brlcad had a slew of csg optimizations scribbled on his whiteboard at one point, that may've been part of the tree reduction stuff :/ *shrug* |
| 16:50.41 | poolio | heh alright> i've though about it and decided that I actually want to allow that behavior |
| 16:50.44 | poolio | so yeah :) |
| 17:04.44 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 17:15.44 | poolio | ``Erik: stupid question, how can I save the framebuffer from mged? |
| 17:23.08 | poolio | err nevermind, I just took a screenshot |
| 17:23.16 | poolio | http://poolio.org/files/cone.png |
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| 18:02.05 | ertugerata | salut |
| 18:07.36 | ertugerata | enfin j'ai fini compile et install brlcad |
| 18:08.22 | ``Erik | heh, 'shitty ftpd'... you had will to write code in java at some point??? :) |
| 18:08.36 | poolio | ``Erik: I had a class in it ... |
| 18:08.41 | poolio | It made me stupider. |
| 18:09.06 | ``Erik | striving for mediocrity, yes |
| 18:09.19 | poolio | always. |
| 18:09.30 | poolio | jmario: 2d mario-clone in Java. died with my will to write code in Java. |
| 18:09.54 | ``Erik | for real, right? not the bass ackwards subset they teach in classes? |
| 18:10.29 | ertugerata | en CVS, je ne peux pas build opennurbs ? |
| 18:11.31 | ``Erik | hum, babelfish kinda ate that one |
| 18:11.32 | poolio | ``Erik: errr, I'm learning it on my own. I have to take a data structures class in Java sometime though |
| 18:12.02 | poolio | ertugerata: tu peut mais ce n'est pas "active" en la "default" versione |
| 18:12.20 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 18:12.30 | poolio | faire comme "--enable-opennurbs-build |
| 18:12.32 | poolio | " |
| 18:12.39 | ``Erik | sicp is a good book, um, and free video lectures by the dudes at http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ |
| 18:12.43 | ertugerata | en config.log il ya |
| 18:12.44 | poolio | ./configure --enable-opennurbs-build |
| 18:12.55 | poolio | ``Erik: that's what I'm working trhough, I'll check out the lectures later |
| 18:13.01 | poolio | I really hvae no time now though :\ |
| 18:13.29 | ``Erik | the videos are the lectures to go with the sicp, might as well do 'em at the same time :) |
| 18:13.39 | ``Erik | which scheme are you using? drscheme out of rice? |
| 18:13.48 | ertugerata | configure:45666: result: Build openNURBS.......................: no (doing without, BREP unsupported) poolio |
| 18:15.45 | ``Erik | ertugerata: do you have emmintrin.h ? |
| 18:16.27 | ertugerata | dans quel package a emmintrin.h ? |
| 18:17.06 | ``Erik | <-- bsd user, does not know linux |
| 18:17.40 | ertugerata | in bsd quel source ? |
| 18:18.59 | ``Erik | /usr/include/emmintrin.h (it comes from gcc) |
| 18:19.45 | ertugerata | /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:19.46 | ertugerata | /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/install-tools/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:20.05 | ertugerata | in gcc ici |
| 18:23.06 | ``Erik | redhat... ./configure --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/HEAD --enable-opennurbs-build |
| 18:23.07 | ``Erik | Build openNURBS.......................: yes |
| 18:23.16 | ``Erik | $ locate emmintrin.h |
| 18:23.19 | ``Erik | /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/3.4.3/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:23.24 | ``Erik | /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/4.1.1/include/emmintrin.h |
| 18:24.13 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 18:24.33 | poolio | ``Erik: mit-scheme |
| 18:24.35 | ``Erik | $ grep header_emmintrin config.log |
| 18:24.35 | ``Erik | ac_cv_header_emmintrin_h=yes |
| 18:25.46 | ``Erik | poolio: I wasn't thrilled by mit-scheme... drscheme is kinda a nice ide thing going and a funky 'trace' thing that actually draws arrows on the code... 'gauche' and 'chicken' are neat |
| 18:27.59 | ``Erik | oh, and 'slime48' looks interesting if you're an emacs user who could tolerate scheme48 |
| 18:29.00 | poolio | nah, not yet an emacs user |
| 18:29.34 | ``Erik | <-- vimmer and proud... tried to learn emacs for slime... *shrug* I guess I'm editor retarded or something |
| 18:31.07 | poolio | oh yeah, I did try emacs + slime way back when |
| 18:33.42 | ertugerata | poolio: je dois faire patch configure.ac for openurbs ou je coprends mal ? |
| 18:35.11 | poolio | ``Erik: what were you trying to tell ertugerata about open nurbs? |
| 18:35.43 | ``Erik | it's trying to enable it, the only test that could fail that would be if emmintrins.h isn't happy |
| 18:35.58 | ``Erik | emmintrin.h rather |
| 18:36.11 | ``Erik | I think |
| 18:36.54 | ``Erik | (don't know why anyone would want the open nurbs stuff yet, it's not very wired in...) |
| 18:37.58 | ertugerata | opennurbs a quel fonction? si il n'existe pas mged ne marche pas bien ? |
| 18:39.38 | ``Erik | ok, babel fish made a mess of that one, too :) |
| 18:45.42 | ertugerata | poolio: dans ton system ilya une file en /etc/env.d nomme comme 50brlcad ? |
| 18:45.45 | poolio | ertugerata: mged marche bien sans opennurbs. opennurbs ne marche pas maintenant, c'est normale que opennurbs est disable |
| 18:46.00 | poolio | err je n'ai pas /etc/env.d |
| 18:46.15 | ertugerata | poolio: je fait enable opennurbs |
| 18:47.35 | ``Erik | (just recently, brlcad changed the opennurbs default from 'auto' to 'no' in cvs, jlowenz has moved to cooler projects in a cooler group) |
| 18:47.41 | ertugerata | dans /etc il ya une dossier pour environment ? |
| 18:47.44 | poolio | ertugerata: non non, opennurbs ne fonctionne pas bien, il est meilleur si tu n'enable pas |
| 18:48.04 | poolio | errr non? |
| 18:48.11 | poolio | il y a un ~/.bashrc |
| 18:48.29 | ertugerata | paste moi ton bashrc |
| 18:48.59 | ertugerata | poolio: il y aune lisence problem pour opennurbs ? |
| 18:49.08 | poolio | non ? |
| 18:49.16 | poolio | opennurbs ne marche pas pour tout le monde |
| 18:49.34 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 18:49.36 | poolio | la seule chose de BRL-CAD en .bashrc est |
| 18:49.43 | poolio | PATH="/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH" |
| 18:49.52 | poolio | ertugerata: mged marche bien sans opennurbs |
| 18:50.03 | ertugerata | merci bien je vais faire disable |
| 18:50.10 | ``Erik | MANPATH, too... and sometimes LD_LIBRARY_PATH, though that can easily be done to ld.so.conf as well |
| 18:50.10 | poolio | c'est rien |
| 18:50.18 | ertugerata | pour lib ? |
| 18:50.29 | ertugerata | LDPATH ? |
| 18:51.09 | ``Erik | on some systems, the rpath in the binaries doesn't get there or isn't respected, so it complains about missing libraries. I'm sure linux doesn't have that issue... :) |
| 18:51.53 | ``Erik | but the MANPATH is good to have, BRL-CAD has pretty decent man pages |
| 18:53.17 | poolio | ertugerata: il n y a pas plus de changed, seulement PATH, et si tu veut les "man pages" ajouter MANPATH |
| 18:54.16 | ``Erik | poor ben, stuck translating :D |
| 18:55.02 | poolio | eh it's nothing, glad I can actually do something helfpul :) |
| 18:55.31 | poolio | also makes me feel like those years spent studying french weren't such a waste after all |
| 18:56.04 | ``Erik | my years were studying japanese, but I'd be effed if someone wanted me to translate, I only remember a few choice ... phrases... :) |
| 19:33.18 | ``Erik | HAH |
| 19:33.23 | ``Erik | http://drj11.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/subclassing-javaawtpaint/ |
| 19:34.45 | ``Erik | about halfway down, he snarfed the camo algorithm out of BRL-CAD |
| 19:39.01 | ertugerata | ./usr/brlcad/bin/rt: MGED database not specified ? |
| 19:40.20 | poolio | ``Erik: atleast he gives BRL-CAD credit |
| 19:41.14 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -F/dev/Xl /usr/brlcad/share/db/havoc.g havoc |
| 19:42.02 | ertugerata | ``Erik: hmm je vais faire essayer |
| 19:42.41 | ertugerata | hmm |
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| 19:43.03 | ertugerata | my database ici: /usr/share/db |
| 19:43.29 | ``Erik | rt dossier.g objets... |
| 19:44.21 | ertugerata | tout et dans /usr/share/db |
| 19:45.02 | ertugerata | 30 dossier.g existe |
| 19:46.21 | ``Erik | "havoc.g" has an object named "havoc". "sphflake.g" has an object named "scene.r" |
| 19:46.53 | ``Erik | "rt /path/to/havoc.g havoc" "rt /path/to/sphflake.g scene.r" |
| 19:46.54 | ertugerata | comment je peux savoir |
| 19:47.37 | ``Erik | mged -c /path/to/dossier.g tops |
| 19:48.37 | ``Erik | or: "mged", "file->open", choose, type "tops" in the command window |
| 19:49.23 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 19:50.22 | poolio | ertugerata: quel est la probleme? |
| 19:51.03 | ``Erik | "-c" means classic mode and allows MGED commands to be issued from the shell command line |
| 19:51.07 | ertugerata | poolio: benchmark ne trouve a-pas databese and rt aussi |
| 19:53.41 | poolio | quel est l'erreur avec benchmark? |
| 19:54.41 | ertugerata | ng [/usr/brlcad/bin/rt] for RT |
| 19:54.42 | ertugerata | ERROR: Could not find the BRL-CAD database directory |
| 19:55.36 | ``Erik | if that's about "make benchmark", I always have to set variables like DBDIR and PIXDIR |
| 19:55.56 | poolio | ertugerata: c'est neccesaire de modifier les variables DBDIR et PIXDIR |
| 19:55.59 | ertugerata | in bashrc = |
| 19:56.07 | ertugerata | ou ? |
| 19:56.09 | poolio | si tu veut |
| 19:56.12 | poolio | ou comme |
| 19:56.20 | poolio | DBDIR="/usr/share/db" benchmark |
| 19:56.28 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 19:57.00 | ``Erik | erm |
| 19:57.02 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 19:57.03 | ``Erik | DB |
| 19:57.05 | poolio | thats wrong |
| 19:57.06 | poolio | yeah |
| 19:57.10 | ertugerata | wrong |
| 19:57.23 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548763F1.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:57.30 | ``Erik | it's inconsistent :( PIXDIR and DB both talking about directories? |
| 19:58.36 | ``Erik | I build out of dir (in /usr/tmp/username/brlcadbuild) and this is why my benchmark attempt looks like... $ PIXDIR=~/src/brlcad/pix CMP=/usr/brlcad/bin/pixcmp RT=/usr/brlcad/bin/rt DB=$PWD/db/ ~/src/brlcad/bench/run.sh |
| 19:58.37 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 19:59.21 | poolio | what about 'benchmark' ? |
| 19:59.32 | ertugerata | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:59.53 | poolio | ``Erik: is DB pointing to where the databases are stored |
| 20:00.09 | ``Erik | 'make benchmark' is just (cd bench && ./run.sh) or something |
| 20:00.47 | ``Erik | the .g files have to be in $DB/ ... so 'make clean' would have broken that |
| 20:02.27 | poolio | ertugerata: est-ce que tu as fait 'make clean' |
| 20:02.58 | ertugerata | poolio: j'ai compris maintenant |
| 20:03.19 | ertugerata | pix est danl le source ? |
| 20:03.21 | poolio | d'accord? |
| 20:03.28 | poolio | quoi? |
| 20:03.28 | ertugerata | oui |
| 20:03.47 | poolio | est-ce que benchmark marche maintenant? |
| 20:03.55 | ertugerata | je vais essayer |
| 20:04.00 | poolio | alors |
| 20:04.11 | ertugerata | je crosi que ça marche |
| 20:07.30 | poolio | bien |
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| 21:59.54 | dtidrow | anybody watching the shuttle launch? |
| 22:08.36 | poolio | eeek. the shuttle is launching? |
| 22:08.42 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@sdcc-66-78-210-221.smartcity.com) | |
| 22:27.22 | dtidrow | poolio: yep, launches in about 9 minutes |
| 22:34.22 | poolio | dtidrow: what channel/station? |
| 22:37.17 | dtidrow_work | www.nasa.gov |
| 22:37.41 | dtidrow_work | sorry, was distracted |
| 22:38.58 | yukonbob | http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html |
| 22:40.33 | poolio | up up and away. Missed take off, just read it :\ |
| 22:42.49 | louipc | how long does it take to exit the atmosphere? |
| 22:47.38 | dtidrow_work | poolio: sorry about that :-\ |
| 22:48.11 | dtidrow_work | they usually do a replay of the launch in a half-hour or so |
| 22:48.49 | poolio | eh I'll catch it on the 11 o' clock news or something |
| 22:49.51 | ``Erik | so it's in stable orbit and opened up now? |
| 22:50.01 | dtidrow_work | pfft - they'll hardly mention it |
| 22:50.15 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: they're in orbit |
| 22:50.33 | dtidrow_work | still taking pics of the tank |
| 22:50.47 | ``Erik | they launch a lot and have an astoundingly good track record given how experimental and archaic it all is, but it's always good to hear that they made it up safe |
| 22:50.53 | dtidrow_work | they open the doors in an hour or so |
| 22:51.53 | louipc | archaic? |
| 22:52.16 | poolio | hmm...anyone have a fast box they want to lone to me? |
| 22:52.37 | dtidrow_work | louipc: yeah, most of the Shuttle was designed in the mid-70's |
| 22:53.27 | louipc | so was BRLCAD eh? /haha |
| 22:53.38 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 22:54.01 | louipc | they've upgraded things I hope |
| 22:56.28 | ``Erik | they're buying used 70's microchips off of ebay to keep the shuttles running |
| 22:56.53 | ``Erik | (now true, they WORK and it's awfully hard to get a rad/temp proofed microchip) |
| 22:56.59 | louipc | :O |
| 22:57.31 | dtidrow_work | poolio: they're doing some launch replays now |
| 23:25.28 | siggraph | PIXDIR? |
| 23:25.34 | siggraph | you're making up variables ``Erik |
| 23:26.06 | siggraph | it's just PIX and DB and ... man benchmark |
| 23:27.24 | siggraph | you should only have to set them if benchmark isn't installed, and maybe if you're building out of dir |
| 23:28.11 | siggraph | also on cvs head opennurbs was turned off by default (and unless they're writing code, there's absolutely no reason for them to enable it) |
| 23:35.03 | poolio | siggraph: ahoy! |
| 23:35.24 | poolio | siggraph: did you read my "aha!" moment? |
| 23:37.03 | siggraph | yep |
| 23:37.11 | siggraph | like the cone :) |
| 23:37.28 | siggraph | that's great |
| 23:38.24 | poolio | just finished adding support for scaling to both bounding boxes |
| 23:38.26 | poolio | well it kind of cheats |
| 23:38.32 | poolio | actually it's an awful hackish solution, but it works |
| 23:38.50 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h fitness.h): fitness now scales to union of bounding boxes. other slight modifications |
| 23:39.03 | poolio | Instead of shooting rays to find the union of the bounding boxes, I just create a box that encloses the two bounding boxes |
| 23:39.39 | poolio | and divides the number of similar rays by the rays shot in the (overly large encompassing) bounding box |
| 23:39.44 | poolio | does that make any sense? |
| 23:40.45 | siggraph | "shooting rays to find the union of the bounding boxes" -- what's that mean? |
| 23:41.01 | poolio | siggraph: I doubt you have any time now, but I'd like to try some larger-scale tests on more complex data and am short on CPU power. Maybe early next week you could perform some trial runs or give me access to a more powerful box. It's taking a quite large population and a lot of generations to even closely match the source |
| 23:41.15 | poolio | siggraph: well, I actually wouldn't need to shoot rays, sorry |
| 23:41.24 | poolio | but finding the volume of the union of the two bounding boxes |
| 23:41.34 | siggraph | what two bounding boxes? |
| 23:41.40 | siggraph | i'm missing some context |
| 23:41.41 | poolio | the input and the individuals |
| 23:42.03 | poolio | Alright so when I raytrace, I used a fixed bounding box that is the same for all shapes (that bounding box is the bounding box of the original source object) |
| 23:42.21 | siggraph | sure |
| 23:42.52 | poolio | As you talked about earlier, it's kind of cropping the individual. So for example lets say your source is an rpp, any giant shape would pretty much be a perfect fit |
| 23:43.16 | siggraph | yep |
| 23:43.36 | poolio | so to counteract that I'm now scaling it by the union of the source bounding box and the individuals bounding box |
| 23:43.39 | poolio | ideally they'd be the same |
| 23:43.48 | poolio | and if it's smaller there is no effect |
| 23:43.58 | siggraph | scaling what? |
| 23:44.05 | poolio | the fitness value |
| 23:44.29 | poolio | heh I am having issues finding the wording |
| 23:45.13 | poolio | but if the rays from the source and the individual are the same, I increment the fitness by the length of the ray which they are similar in |
| 23:45.41 | siggraph | so you're still generating a fitness based on rays fired on source to rays fired on sample, but then scaling that fitness based on the ratio of their respective bounding boxes |
| 23:45.49 | poolio | well no |
| 23:46.04 | poolio | orignally it was similar_value/#rays fired |
| 23:46.09 | poolio | sorry no |
| 23:46.17 | poolio | similar_value/(#rays fired * length of rays) |
| 23:46.29 | poolio | so basically similar rays / (volume or maximum value it could be) |
| 23:46.49 | poolio | now it's similar rays / (volume of large bounding box that encompasses the union of both bounding boxes) |
| 23:47.17 | poolio | Does that make sense? |
| 23:48.09 | siggraph | hm, I think so |
| 23:48.22 | poolio | Ideally it'd be similar rays / (volume of union of both bounding boxes) |
| 23:48.35 | poolio | where volume is going to heavily depend on # rays fired...not the actual volume of the object |
| 23:48.42 | poolio | moreso the maximum fitness that could be attained |
| 23:48.46 | siggraph | I think that might actually be the same end-result to what I'd said |
| 23:48.49 | poolio | (if there was an exact atch) |
| 23:48.54 | siggraph | just operations applied in a different order |
| 23:48.56 | poolio | Yeah probably :) |
| 23:49.09 | poolio | I can't think of a good way to decompose similar rays / (volume of union of both bounding boxes) |
| 23:49.54 | poolio | The code for it is pretty hackish. I was just trying to get it working. It works pretty well. See: the cone |
| 23:50.08 | siggraph | so .. does it actually converge on one/two/three sphere(s)? |
| 23:50.25 | siggraph | the cone is looking MUCH better |
| 23:50.39 | siggraph | sort of like it's starting to work, though still not quite there :) |
| 23:50.41 | poolio | Also, if you don't have the right number of shapes or the GA has proposed a good solution with less shapes than the individual is made out of it essentially "hides" those spheres. By either shrinking them or putthing them within another sphere |
| 23:50.52 | poolio | It doesn't really converge |
| 23:51.04 | poolio | It finds solutions that visually make sense, but it's not waht you want. |
| 23:51.21 | poolio | And the main reason it wasn't working well is that it doesn't deal very well when a large % of the input is empty space |
| 23:52.15 | poolio | I'm not sure if it would converge, I've run stuff for ~1 hour and it's slowly getting better. The issue is my laptop goes through a meltdown... I have to run to dinner now but I'll start up a longer run |
| 23:52.34 | poolio | and one sphere does converge. |
| 23:53.04 | poolio | Two spheres seems to like having one large ellipse cover both spheres and then there are a lot of tiny spheres around it that have yet to be cleaned up (but probably would be if the network ran longer) |
| 23:53.14 | poolio | I'll try a run on two spheres slightly seperated while I'm at dinner. |
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| 12:07.35 | ``Erik | brlcad: doh, I dunno how PIXDIR slipped in there... mebbe it's my assumption of convention (y'know, directories have DIR on the end, non-directories don't?) |
| 12:08.05 | ``Erik | actually, that convention breakage got me while building up that string, I had something like RT=/usr/brlcad/bin/rt CMP=/usr/brlcad/bin |
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| 16:50.59 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
| 20:14.48 | MinuteElectron | siggraph: LDAP |
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| 16:53.03 | LinuxMafia | hi |
| 16:53.13 | LinuxMafia | any one in here |
| 16:54.28 | poolio | allo |
| 16:54.38 | LinuxMafia | how can i see the axis with size on them |
| 16:54.42 | poolio | It's my last day of work :) |
| 16:54.42 | LinuxMafia | poolio, hi |
| 16:54.49 | LinuxMafia | oh |
| 16:54.57 | LinuxMafia | are you happy? |
| 16:55.42 | LinuxMafia | i want something that helps me positioning the shapes |
| 16:55.42 | poolio | Yes, there's tons more to be done though... |
| 16:55.47 | dtidrow_work | poolio: where are you headed next? |
| 16:55.51 | poolio | You can enable the grid? |
| 16:55.53 | poolio | dtidrow_work: school :) |
| 16:56.16 | LinuxMafia | poolio, i did click show grid , but it does not show it |
| 16:56.23 | poolio | no? it works fine here |
| 16:56.28 | poolio | maybe you're zoomed in too far |
| 16:56.37 | poolio | (the grid size is too large?) |
| 16:57.30 | poolio | dtidrow_work: I'll probalby try to finish up the project that I'm working on sometime in the future when I have free time |
| 16:57.30 | LinuxMafia | poolio, i set the grid spacing to 1mm |
| 16:58.08 | poolio | Modes -> Draw grid? |
| 16:58.51 | LinuxMafia | poolio, yeah i have it ticked |
| 16:59.19 | poolio | hmm not sure |
| 16:59.28 | poolio | I may be a developer but I know less about mged than most users |
| 16:59.30 | LinuxMafia | poolio, oh i got it now |
| 16:59.49 | LinuxMafia | poolio, it was because of grid spacing |
| 16:59.57 | LinuxMafia | i set it to auto spacing |
| 17:00.03 | poolio | yep yep :) |
| 17:00.39 | LinuxMafia | poolio, but it is 2d |
| 17:01.00 | LinuxMafia | it wont help you to position any thing |
| 17:03.41 | LinuxMafia | that sux |
| 17:04.16 | LinuxMafia | and there is no grid on other windows when i choose multiple mode |
| 17:06.10 | LinuxMafia | hum |
| 17:09.42 | poolio | sorry |
| 17:10.16 | LinuxMafia | that is ok |
| 17:10.28 | LinuxMafia | i think i have to move from view to view |
| 17:13.33 | LinuxMafia | is there any way to attach command window |
| 17:13.41 | LinuxMafia | to graphic window? |
| 17:13.54 | LinuxMafia | like command window apper at bottom |
| 17:14.03 | LinuxMafia | ? |
| 17:14.04 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 17:14.24 | LinuxMafia | wb dtidrow |
| 17:14.31 | LinuxMafia | ready to answer? |
| 17:15.54 | poolio | LinuxMafia: have you read the tutorials? |
| 17:16.03 | dtidrow_work | actualy I just set up my laptop |
| 17:16.14 | LinuxMafia | poolio, i am reading it |
| 17:16.19 | LinuxMafia | volume III |
| 17:16.35 | LinuxMafia | dtidrow, congras |
| 17:16.42 | dtidrow | heh |
| 17:16.47 | LinuxMafia | poolio, i am reading the pipe thing |
| 17:17.01 | LinuxMafia | dtidrow, congrajs |
| 17:17.25 | LinuxMafia | poolio, is there other tutorials? |
| 17:23.46 | poolio | eh not sure |
| 17:28.18 | LinuxMafia | poolio, what is the C code is doing there |
| 17:28.32 | poolio | where? |
| 17:28.43 | LinuxMafia | in tutorial |
| 17:28.51 | poolio | I have no clue, I'm not reading a tutorial |
| 17:28.57 | poolio | and no offense, but I don't really have time at the moment |
| 17:29.06 | poolio | I'd wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to return to IRC |
| 17:29.17 | LinuxMafia | oh cool |
| 17:29.22 | LinuxMafia | i will just practice |
| 17:29.29 | LinuxMafia | thanks alot do |
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| 20:02.33 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you there? |
| 20:04.06 | dtidrow_work | he's probably flying back from SIGGRAPH |
| 20:04.25 | MinuteElectron | oh, ok |
| 20:04.26 | poolio | I felt like he was home :P |
| 20:04.37 | dtidrow_work | is he already? |
| 20:04.46 | poolio | 20 minutes ago he changed his nick back to brlcad... |
| 20:04.53 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:05.03 | dtidrow_work | guess so, the :-) |
| 20:05.06 | dtidrow_work | then |
| 20:05.15 | dtidrow_work | wasn't paying attention |
| 20:08.08 | ``Erik | my mac broke :( |
| 20:09.44 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: When you see this message could you give me some advice to the current state of LDAP and how you are getting on with integrating it with your other projects. That would be useful as I have a few days before I go on holiday again (for two weeks) and I might be able to get some work done. Right now I am going to do something else, since I only just got back. |
| 20:23.23 | poolio | ``Erik: stinks. My friend's brand new macbook pro died yesterday :\ |
| 20:23.50 | poolio | ``Erik: "arb(shape): only 3 faces present |
| 20:24.33 | dtidrow | poolio: ough! |
| 20:24.37 | dtidrow | puch! |
| 20:24.51 | dtidrow | heh - fingers aren't working today... |
| 20:24.55 | poolio | that doesn't make sense to me as to how that can occur? I'm mutating an RPP and I can only see how it could have 1 face or no faces...but not 3 |
| 20:25.10 | poolio | dtidrow: heh, s'alright it's a friday :) |
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| 00:19.02 | dtidrow | btw, Judge Kimball has declared that Novell owns UNIX.... |
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| 05:25.23 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: there is just one IF_ per interface -- if you don't want the ogl interface, then don't define IF_OGL .. this has nothing to do with IF_WGL |
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| 06:40.50 | jpjacobs | Hi! is there someone actually maintaining the .deb of BRL-CAD? |
| 06:44.40 | brlcad | on and off |
| 06:44.46 | brlcad | so, no not really :) |
| 06:45.06 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Hi, |
| 06:45.10 | brlcad | hey MinuteElectron |
| 06:45.39 | MinuteElectron | See my message above :) |
| 06:45.40 | brlcad | I'm not home just yet to attend to a big laundry list of things -- including ldap unfortunately, but have seen some of the backlog |
| 06:46.00 | MinuteElectron | oh ok |
| 06:46.11 | brlcad | ldap isn't going to be integrated with the "other projects" if you mean bzflag's ldap plans |
| 06:46.12 | MinuteElectron | dw |
| 06:46.26 | brlcad | only the other brl-cad services, the four or so main sections |
| 06:46.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: No, I was just wondering whether you had had any success with it yet. |
| 06:47.03 | brlcad | I successfully got it installed, and successfully verified that it installed correctly :) |
| 06:47.11 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, OK. |
| 06:47.23 | MinuteElectron | Thanks for the info. |
| 06:47.29 | brlcad | proper configuration is going to be a learning experience for me |
| 06:47.36 | MinuteElectron | Same here. |
| 06:47.41 | brlcad | feel free to give it a try yourself if you want to play with it |
| 06:47.49 | brlcad | you can educate me later :) |
| 06:47.59 | MinuteElectron | :) ok, I will try. |
| 06:47.59 | brlcad | otherwise, it's near the top of my list when I get back |
| 06:48.20 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 06:48.23 | brlcad | let me know if you need access or something, but I think you should be set |
| 06:48.31 | MinuteElectron | yep |
| 06:49.03 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Where was it installed to again? |
| 06:49.03 | brlcad | and .htaccess files should be good now |
| 06:49.15 | brlcad | i did verify that was working now |
| 06:49.52 | brlcad | which coincidentally broke about a half-dozen other resident sites on the server that had .htaccess files that weren't set up right =) |
| 06:50.24 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 06:53.15 | MinuteElectron | Yay! RewriteRules in .htacces work. |
| 06:53.26 | MinuteElectron | Baffles me why they didn't in httpd.conf |
| 06:56.46 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Please can you remind me of the path to the Apache conf files and the LDAP conf files. |
| 08:10.08 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Does there currently exist somewhere I can get all of the quotes? |
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| 12:11.17 | ``Erik | MinuteElectron: /usr/local/etc/{apache22,openldap}/ |
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| 12:14.49 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: thanks. |
| 14:21.28 | LinuxMafia | hi |
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| 15:04.42 | LinuxMafia | hi brlcad |
| 15:04.51 | LinuxMafia | hi ``Erik |
| 15:05.19 | LinuxMafia | is there any way to combine command window and gui window |
| 15:05.35 | LinuxMafia | like command window apear at bottom |
| 15:11.12 | louipc | I can kind of make it look like that with my window manager |
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| 16:00.56 | LinuxMafia | louipc, sorry i was not here , what window manager? |
| 16:01.24 | louipc | I use openbox |
| 16:02.17 | louipc | I can remove window decorations hehe looks pretty neat |
| 16:02.50 | LinuxMafia | louipc, i have it i guess but i need something like kde |
| 16:03.03 | louipc | why's that? |
| 16:03.24 | LinuxMafia | kde |
| 16:03.34 | LinuxMafia | is another window manager |
| 16:03.41 | louipc | well I guess you need something to save window size, position, dimension |
| 16:03.58 | louipc | kde is a full desktop environment |
| 16:04.03 | LinuxMafia | louipc, no no i really want to combine them |
| 16:04.06 | LinuxMafia | louipc, yes |
| 16:04.46 | louipc | I'm not a fan of those heh, so I just use a simple window manager |
| 16:05.20 | LinuxMafia | louipc, yeah i am using for my home pc |
| 16:05.34 | LinuxMafia | i know , if i work somewhere i dont need kde |
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| 21:00.10 | Laniakea | ``Erik: OpenBSD... any success? |
| 21:13.31 | Laniakea | Good that you still have those older 7.8.4 etc. files on the sourceforge site so that people who cannot use 7.10.0 can download these. |
| 21:13.34 | Laniakea | (like me) |
| 21:16.48 | louipc | you can download really old versions can't you? |
| 21:18.12 | ``Erik | not yet, karel, but I committed to configure.ac something that I *THINK* might help |
| 21:36.40 | Laniakea | ``Erik: so I should try CVS HEAD again and maybe it will work? |
| 21:39.34 | ``Erik | if ya want *shrug* it's a guess on my part, though |
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| 21:56.12 | ``Erik | aren't we all? |
| 21:57.20 | poolio | I have a bug where fitness exceeds what is the theoretical maximum, and it takes something like an hour to reproduce ... so I'm having a hard time debugging |
| 21:59.05 | ``Erik | that's where debuggers come in really handy :) |
| 21:59.14 | ``Erik | put a conditonal watch on the fitness value |
| 21:59.22 | ``Erik | then explore the program |
| 22:01.23 | poolio | ``Erik: well...if it only shows itself after one hour without a debugger...how long is it goign to take with a debugger? |
| 22:02.07 | ``Erik | um |
| 22:02.22 | ``Erik | about the same with an extra 'if' when you evaluate fitness? |
| 22:02.41 | ``Erik | and you only do it once... then you learn what's going on and fix it... no need to run it over and over and over |
| 22:02.43 | ``Erik | and over |
| 22:02.44 | ``Erik | and |
| 22:02.44 | ``Erik | over |
| 22:02.51 | poolio | wait, what exactly are you saying to do? |
| 22:03.49 | ``Erik | run gdb and type "help condition"? |
| 22:03.56 | poolio | thanks |
| 22:06.36 | ``Erik | when the expression returns true, the debugger will stop the program and give you a prompt... then you can explore all the variables in the scope, the stack, wlak up frames and look at the variables in all their scopes, evaluate functions right there, ... |
| 22:07.04 | poolio | yeah, I need to learn more about debugging. thanks ``Erik |
| 22:07.17 | ``Erik | might be worth making a 'toy' program to debug to figure out how to use it |
| 22:15.55 | MinuteElectron | Damn LDAP, my puny mind can't take it. |
| 22:16.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:16.38 | ``Erik | pheer the x509 |
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| 23:51.29 | poolio | ``Erik: I'm still waiting on gdb to hit the breakpoint :\ |
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| 03:07.01 | poolio | heh ``Erik it's still going |
| 03:07.05 | poolio | I reckon it's around 3x slower |
| 03:07.10 | poolio | (in gdb) |
| 06:20.12 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03l4m3rthanyou * r235 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/libIRC.h src/libIRC.cpp): eUnknown -> eUnknownCommand. eUnknown clashes with cURL. |
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| 18:17.31 | louipc | Twingy: hey I noticed a problem in the Makefile in samples/ and share/ of gcam |
| 18:17.49 | Twingy | oh? |
| 18:18.04 | louipc | Twingy: you have mkdir $DESTDIR$gcamfilesdir in install-gcamfilesDATA: |
| 18:18.30 | Twingy | I don't create the makefile, automake does |
| 18:18.34 | louipc | but further up you have $gcamfilesdir=$DESTDIR/$prefix/$share |
| 18:18.45 | louipc | yeah you should change Makefile.in |
| 18:18.53 | Twingy | gcamfilesdir = $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/samples |
| 18:19.06 | Twingy | yea |
| 18:19.09 | Twingy | gotcha |
| 18:19.10 | louipc | so it will install in $DESTDIR/$DESTDIR/$gcamfilesdir |
| 18:19.15 | Twingy | haven't touched that in a while |
| 18:19.21 | Twingy | thx |
| 18:19.29 | louipc | no prob |
| 18:21.38 | louipc | oh yeah that's right.. in share it's xmlfilesdir |
| 18:23.23 | Twingy | yep |
| 18:23.47 | Twingy | I need to put out another release this month |
| 18:23.56 | louipc | I'd like to install it all in /usr/share/gcam |
| 18:24.03 | louipc | I mean the data files |
| 18:24.25 | louipc | nice |
| 18:24.28 | Twingy | if prefix is left blank that seems reasonable |
| 18:26.10 | louipc | prefix needs to be set for the actual program to be able to find the files no? |
| 18:29.33 | Twingy | it defaults to /usr/local |
| 18:29.54 | Twingy | otherwise it uses whatever defined in prefix |
| 18:30.05 | louipc | yep |
| 18:30.15 | Twingy | anyway, I'm headed out to the garage to build a wheatstone for this pressure sensor |
| 18:30.27 | louipc | wheatstone? hmm |
| 18:30.35 | Twingy | difference amplifier |
| 18:30.53 | Twingy | cheap op-amps usually have maximum gain of ~100, I need ~1000 |
| 18:31.04 | louipc | :D |
| 18:31.10 | louipc | ok have fun |
| 18:31.14 | louipc | want me to make a patch? |
| 18:31.35 | Twingy | are you using gcam for anything? |
| 18:31.55 | louipc | not yet I need to make a pkg first hehe |
| 18:32.05 | Twingy | debian package? |
| 18:32.10 | louipc | archlinux package |
| 18:32.15 | Twingy | ah |
| 18:32.30 | Twingy | um, hold off on the patch for right now until my mind is in gcam land |
| 18:32.39 | louipc | that's the distro I'm using, but yeah I think I might use it eventually |
| 18:32.41 | Twingy | right now it is in electronics land |
| 18:33.07 | louipc | especially as it matures, since I do work on CNC as my regular occupation :/ |
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| 20:03.29 | ``Erik | here we go... dumbest thing I've seen today... http://heelys.com/ |
| 20:04.28 | louipc | ooh money for skating with special shoes |
| 20:07.05 | louipc | oh I saw that guy walk up the ramp cheating... |
| 21:42.08 | ``Erik | not the money part... the existance of those shoes... |
| 21:42.55 | ``Erik | whatever happened to going to the roller-rink and slapping on some good old rollerscates? O.o |
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| 16:31.54 | ``Erik | hrmph. |
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| 19:44.28 | tomboy64 | hi |
| 19:44.45 | tomboy64 | does any1 know if brlcad is 64-bit safe? |
| 19:53.55 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron) | |
| 19:54.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Has anything just happend to the server, I couldn't access my screen session for some reason after I got force disconnected. |
| 19:56.25 | MinuteElectron | And, what's more 'killall -u MinuteElectron' wouldn't work. |
| 20:11.15 | ``Erik | it looks ok to me O.o what was the screen error? |
| 20:12.07 | ``Erik | load was up... looks like almost all your procs were started less than 15ish minutes ago |
| 20:12.22 | ``Erik | got a login from 8 something this morning |
| 20:15.59 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: I killed everything. |
| 20:16.02 | MinuteElectron | Of mine. |
| 20:16.52 | ``Erik | ps axu | grep <username> shows a sshd/bash pair from this morning *shrug* :) |
| 20:16.55 | MinuteElectron | This is tedious now, everything is soo slow. |
| 20:17.07 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: Some stuff wouldn't die. |
| 20:17.11 | ``Erik | load is up on the machine |
| 20:17.15 | poolio | hmm. I really need to get working on putting together a presentation :\ |
| 20:17.33 | ``Erik | mysql is grinding, httpd's giving a bit, as is someones irssi |
| 20:18.19 | ``Erik | I had a box with wiki that'd more or less become unusable every time google wandered over it, and google was way less abusive than microsoft's search |
| 20:23.20 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: yes, it would appear if something is hitting a website or series of websites that rely on mySQL hard. |
| 20:25.29 | ``Erik | ah |
| 20:25.31 | ``Erik | msnbot |
| 20:25.49 | MinuteElectron | Micro$shit. |
| 20:25.55 | ``Erik | and 'voilabot' |
| 20:25.58 | MinuteElectron | Anyway, I can't stand this. BBL |
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| 21:07.53 | MinuteElectron_ | ``Erik: Can you connect at all. |
| 21:08.06 | MinuteElectron | It appears I can. |
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| 16:57.41 | poolio | hmm. awfully quiet. |
| 17:03.26 | dtidrow | must be recovering from SIGGRAPH |
| 17:04.12 | poolio | ah yes. |
| 17:20.00 | archivist | we actually got reports from SIGGRAPH on breakfast TV in the uk |
| 18:13.13 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_hardtrack.1: Stub out missing options for PR 1773831. Someone with scary guru powers in anim should expand on it. |
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| 18:39.24 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 01:10.46 | ``Erik | mmmm cathy shim |
| 01:45.11 | louipc | ``Erik: on her resumé "special skills: heely skating" |
| 02:40.55 | ``Erik | ok, that's retarded, but what a bod O.o |
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| 13:03.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik improved the anim_hardtrack manual page documentation |
| 13:09.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 13:09.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: john tracked down a quirky lil pipe bug where there can/should actually be 4 or |
| 13:09.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 5 segments along a given ray when shooting through a pipe if/when the inner |
| 13:09.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: diameter of a bend is different from an adjoining straight section (causing a |
| 13:09.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: stair-step change in the pipe thickness). |
| 13:15.09 | ``Erik | "sick", huh? why do I suspect late night carousing is the cause? :D |
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| 13:39.13 | ``Erik | not coming in, poolio? |
| 13:39.59 | brlcad | i actually got sick before siggraph from too many back-to-back all-nighters, got better and it just lingered all through the week -- but then reared it's head when I got home again |
| 13:40.18 | brlcad | so i've been resting for the past three days .. today is the first day i've been on-line |
| 13:40.23 | ``Erik | sweet, being near apg makes you physically sick :D *duck* |
| 13:40.58 | poolio | ``Erik: Nope :( |
| 13:41.01 | poolio | Well, I will. |
| 13:41.04 | poolio | I just am not sure when |
| 13:41.15 | poolio | hah. see brlcad, you do need sleep. |
| 13:41.38 | brlcad | I do, I've been up all night .. and I've got a headache again :) |
| 13:42.33 | brlcad | mmm.. http://www.vroomfoods.com/foosh_mints.html |
| 13:42.42 | poolio | Are you pondering that at work? haha |
| 13:43.13 | ``Erik | of course, worsethanfailure is an important investment to further extend my, uh, professional ability as a software developer? |
| 13:43.37 | poolio | brlcad: woah |
| 13:44.03 | ``Erik | brlcad, would you have heartburn if I removed dm_old? O.o |
| 13:44.09 | brlcad | nope |
| 13:44.17 | brlcad | was going to myself |
| 13:44.27 | brlcad | just didn't want to screw with distcheck |
| 13:44.57 | brlcad | it should be ready to tag n ship |
| 13:46.00 | ``Erik | ok, tag it so I can hit 'enter' and expunge this vestigial crap |
| 13:49.12 | poolio | also, does one of you want to find a good place for freeing re_directory_blocks please :) |
| 13:57.49 | ``Erik | rt_free_rti seems to do it, as does rt_clean_resource |
| 14:03.58 | poolio | AFAIK it's commented out in both those places. |
| 14:04.42 | ``Erik | huh, whuddya know |
| 14:04.57 | ``Erik | smells like a leak to me :) |
| 14:05.50 | ``Erik | hrm |
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| 16:27.57 | ``Erik | that was AWESOME |
| 16:57.35 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (14 files in 3 dirs): removed vestigial crud |
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| 18:13.56 | ``Erik | /t http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2ac7ee81 |
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| 18:54.01 | ertugerata | salut |
| 19:01.01 | ertugerata | poolio: tu peut m'aider ? |
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| 21:21.04 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ?did sneaker pimps do anything besides "Becoming X" (and the remix "Becoming remiXed")? |
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| 23:27.21 | ``Erik | yeah, but the chick singer left not long after that album, and the dudes singing just don't sit right with me :/ |
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| 06:12.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove the old enable arg for proe since the with arg is used instead |
| 06:17.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: version numbers are no longer in configure.ac, they're in the version files in include/conf now |
| 06:37.30 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: sweet blessed jeebus. don't have to update config_win.h any more since it seems to be pulling it from the builds system now. I think daniel must be to thank for that goodness |
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| 07:44.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 07:44.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: aha, finally realized what is going awry... since the samples were previously |
| 07:44.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: already allocated to the hard-coded max, the sample generator just used the |
| 07:44.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: slots as needed, keeping track of them with lt_pt_count as new ones were needed. |
| 07:44.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: what that means, though, is that we need to ensure an allocation before ALL of |
| 07:44.57 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: the places that lt_pt_count is incremented since that is when we need/make a new |
| 07:44.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: point. this (finally) fixes the crashes I was seeing when multiple shadow rays |
| 07:45.14 | ewilhelm | brlcad: botsnack :-D |
| 07:45.24 | brlcad | :-) |
| 07:51.28 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: support infinite # of shadow rays in the raytracers |
| 11:30.13 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 13:12.03 | ``Erik | coming in today, brlcad? |
| 13:13.10 | ``Erik | (and a thousand shadow rays? non-point light source? a thousand light sources? O.o) |
| 13:18.14 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-008-157.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 15:14.33 | ``Erik | hum, no brlcad and no poolio |
| 15:19.45 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876182.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 15:23.58 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 15:26.15 | ``Erik | pewlioz |
| 15:26.35 | ``Erik | ya in the aberdeen area? |
| 15:32.10 | poolio | mornin' |
| 15:32.28 | poolio | errr, I'm in baltimore county. really close to the north west corner of baltimore city, about 1 hr away |
| 15:46.32 | poolio | ``Erik: I'd take it you're in the aberdeen area :) |
| 16:54.32 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 17:10.36 | ``Erik | poolio: yes, was seeing if you'd be interested on coming up for lunch with some of "the gang", but it's too late now :D |
| 17:10.39 | ``Erik | <-- pats his buddha belly |
| 17:11.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: the number of light sample points needs to be considerably bigger than the number of shadow rays otherwise we end up with sample patterns in the shadow. |
| 17:12.40 | poolio | ``Erik: No time :( I'm off to do shopping. |
| 17:12.49 | poolio | However, I just got my new LCD, had to test it out |
| 17:13.01 | poolio | It's tiny compared to what you guys have |
| 17:52.45 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 17:55.47 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: bezier extrusions need to be optimized, really should not be performing dynamic memory allocations in the root solver |
| 17:56.02 | dtidrow | eek |
| 18:15.00 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-105-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:27.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/.cvsignore: ignore the generated tclstub export file |
| 18:41.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/points_scan.l: note that we could have used YY_NO_UNPUT instead of the hack |
| 19:25.17 | brlcad | pretty awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdk5m5IT8NY |
| 19:39.06 | *** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.230.243.86) | |
| 19:39.16 | ertugerata | salut |
| 19:39.57 | brlcad | salut |
| 19:40.14 | ertugerata | il ya une problem dans mon system, je compile brlcad in cvs, configure ne trouve pas TCL and TK |
| 19:40.30 | ertugerata | quand meme ils sont exist |
| 19:53.51 | ``Erik | vous avez tcl.h et tk.h? (excuse, http://babelfish.altavista.com/rt) |
| 19:54.50 | ertugerata | ``Erik: /usr/include |
| 19:54.53 | ``Erik | (brlcad, feeling less ill?) |
| 19:55.15 | ``Erik | les deux version 8.5 ? |
| 19:55.19 | ertugerata | ``Erik: yes |
| 19:55.50 | brlcad | yeah, much better but now the week is up and I'm in release mode |
| 19:56.20 | ``Erik | ./configure 2>&1 | tee configure.out ; less configure.out ... |
| 19:56.22 | ``Erik | checking for Tcl_Main in -ltcl85... yes |
| 19:56.32 | ``Erik | checking tcl.h usability... yes |
| 19:56.32 | ``Erik | checking tcl.h presence... yes |
| 19:56.32 | ``Erik | checking for tcl.h... yes |
| 19:59.05 | ``Erik | brlcad: I saw some corniness in distcheck when I was verifying removal of dm_old, but they weren't related to dm_old so I commited... things like, uh, includes/CONF or something |
| 19:59.30 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (ChangeLog NEWS TODO include/conf/PATCH): performing the 7.10.2 release, bump the revisions and tag it as rel-7-10-2 |
| 19:59.53 | ``Erik | also got things squared up so the only 'other' package I used on fbsd was tkImg :) (and it WORKED!) |
| 19:59.57 | brlcad | the version numbers are in include/conf now, in individual files |
| 20:00.11 | brlcad | wow, seriously |
| 20:00.14 | brlcad | that's awesome |
| 20:00.28 | brlcad | I would have expected some incrtcl woes still |
| 20:00.30 | ``Erik | I had to hack some stuff in ports to make incr and blt use 85, but *shrug* |
| 20:00.50 | brlcad | you have anything that needs to be committed before I tag it? |
| 20:00.53 | ``Erik | hehehe that's what my configure.ac commits addressed... getting incr to detect |
| 20:00.57 | ``Erik | lemme look |
| 20:01.32 | brlcad | i know of a few minor build issues, but .. they're minor and shouldn't hold things up |
| 20:03.14 | ``Erik | I have an untested one in sig, I started going through and changing the big strcmp ifelse stuff to getopt... but that can wait for the next one *shrug* |
| 20:03.18 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: list light model option in -h |
| 20:03.39 | ``Erik | otherwise, I have nothing release-worthy to commit. |
| 20:03.42 | brlcad | aiight |
| 20:03.51 | ``Erik | need to fix the photon mapping stuff, still, but that *shrug* can wait |
| 20:04.51 | brlcad | yeah, there's even some important fixes I need to put in for the s2 folks, but it'll have to wait |
| 20:04.58 | ``Erik | ertugerata: configure accompli? tcl rapports "yes"? |
| 20:05.22 | brlcad | this is effectively the july release a day late |
| 20:05.42 | ``Erik | is the beaurocracy still preventing a regular monthly cycle? |
| 20:05.42 | brlcad | shooting 256 shadow rays sure is expensive :) |
| 20:05.51 | ertugerata | ``Erik: j'esaie une fois de plus |
| 20:06.08 | brlcad | time constraints is all that's really preventing regular releases |
| 20:07.05 | brlcad | and involvement, reliable testing/build framework |
| 20:07.13 | ``Erik | heh, mostly the platform build test? a "big honking button" is needed for that |
| 20:07.20 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:07.56 | brlcad | I'd even auto-post the tarballs if the platform tests were more automated |
| 20:08.27 | ``Erik | it's too bad sf's compile farm went away. :( |
| 20:08.34 | brlcad | just a matter of some minor scripting and a low-maintenance interface, but it usually falls under the bar to other development |
| 20:08.47 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 20:09.10 | ``Erik | but I'd imagine if you looked at the time to write it vs the time to do it by hand, it'd quickly pay for itself |
| 20:09.41 | brlcad | the stuff the s2 folks are doing is a start, but that setup is definitely not hands-off and it's rather error prone/sensitive to anything changing that it's a burden in itself |
| 20:10.58 | brlcad | it's definitely worth it to build the dists automatically, that's why I started all the build system hooks for each of the platforms |
| 20:11.16 | brlcad | all the various sh/make_*.sh scripts to build distributions |
| 20:12.11 | brlcad | what seems to really bite us the most lately is stuff missing from the dists -- there really needs to be a 'distcheckfiles' or something that makes sure everything in a checkout is in the source dist |
| 20:12.53 | ``Erik | I noticed that the 'real' checkout had to be configured with --enable-almost-everything or something to get distcheck to behave sorta |
| 20:12.57 | brlcad | could probably do it with some recursive rule added to misc/Makefile.defs, have it scan all the various file lists |
| 20:13.32 | brlcad | (fyi, --enable-all is the shorthand for that) |
| 20:14.02 | ``Erik | meh, highlight and middle click is the shortcut I use for that |
| 20:14.03 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:19.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS TODO README include/conf/PATCH): post commit, bump the version numbers and plan for the next release (expecting another patch release) |
| 20:22.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS AUTHORS): time to announce and credit beset, Ben's Evolutionary Shape Extraction Tool by Ben Poole |
| 20:29.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: lay out the next two release iterations (both probably still patch releases) |
| 20:37.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): remove the op-bw utility, an obsolete tool written to read images from an Optronics scanner into a bw. tool can be removed when they are no longer in use and impose a burden to maintain. (sorry Phil) |
| 20:37.51 | ``Erik | it'll live on in the repo |
| 20:41.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:42.19 | brlcad | well it's still needed for the brep work |
| 20:42.27 | brlcad | it's a matter of where/how |
| 20:43.18 | brlcad | the opennurbs folks pulled out all of the routines that actually did analytic processing, anything that didn't have to do with their file format |
| 20:43.32 | brlcad | which of coruse means they ripped out everything we need to implement |
| 20:44.09 | brlcad | so as jason was implementing it, he kept it separate and it still is, but the more that work proceeds (and it presumably is going to) the more it probably deserves to be an opennurbs enhancement directly |
| 20:44.45 | ``Erik | 10km swims... sheesh |
| 20:45.59 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876182.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 20:47.23 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: put off opennurbs integration for now, still questionable whether it really needs to be integrated aside from being stagnated at the moment |
| 21:13.55 | ``Erik | "monosfritos" |
| 21:40.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/nirt/parse_fmt.c): |
| 21:40.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: increased output precision from nirt/query_ray to 8 digits after the decimal. |
| 21:40.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: was previously 2 to 4 digits depending on the field, which was particularly |
| 21:40.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: detrimental for reproducing shots using the limited az el values or for seeing |
| 21:40.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: what floating point fuzz is relevant on the origin and shot direction. |
| 22:10.28 | brlcad | aww, seems like sf only allows one upload at a time now |
| 22:13.15 | poolio | brlcad: Howdy :) Thanks for crediting me, but I hope beset isn't in the release... |
| 22:13.40 | brlcad | note the section |
| 22:14.02 | poolio | I really can't, my pupils are dilated and it's really hard to read anything on my computer, sorry. |
| 22:14.14 | poolio | I have to squint :) |
| 22:14.36 | brlcad | ./topic BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.10.2 is posted! (Aug 16th) || for Ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates |
| 22:14.43 | brlcad | 7.10.2 is being posted now |
| 22:14.53 | brlcad | that's in the release notes for 7.10.4 :) |
| 22:15.01 | poolio | Heh! Sweetness. Congratulations! |
| 22:15.06 | brlcad | or 7.12.0, depending on how must goes in |
| 22:16.24 | brlcad | yeah, that's been too long coming |
| 22:16.33 | brlcad | missed three scheduled release months |
| 22:57.23 | ``Erik | hum, guess I get to make a port then :) |
| 22:57.35 | ``Erik | and NOW I can break the tree horribly with my half-assed hacks :D |
| 22:58.40 | ``Erik | (I'd really like to see a libtk test in configure.ac that does NOT require a valid X server running and appropriate display set.. I'd imagine i'd be necessary for automated build/testing as well... *cough*) |
| 22:58.54 | ``Erik | but now it's world of warcraft time. |
| 23:19.25 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096668109.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:56.18 | brlcad | woot, http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/shadows_by_example.mov |
| 00:04.38 | poolio | brlcad: No music? Lame. |
| 00:04.54 | dtidrow | heh |
| 00:50.28 | yukonbob | brlcad: cool |
| 00:57.07 | brlcad | unfortunately it's entirely unoptimized to shoot high numbers of shadow rays, but it at least will let you now |
| 00:58.01 | brlcad | I should render something like m35 or havoc with that many shadow rays to see the difference |
| 01:03.09 | poolio | eek. how long would that take? |
| 01:03.55 | brlcad | dunno, depends how many shadow rays, how big a picture, etc |
| 01:07.20 | yukonbob | brlcad: how was siggraph, btw? |
| 01:08.16 | brlcad | it was great, loads of great papers |
| 01:08.30 | brlcad | one in particular for generating cutaway diagrams that I liked |
| 01:08.35 | yukonbob | lots of new ideas for optimizations and new features? |
| 01:09.48 | brlcad | heh, yeah.. loads |
| 01:10.23 | brlcad | most of the stuff that we can directly use and benefit from outright we've known about for years -- just a matter of folks and doing the work |
| 01:10.54 | brlcad | most of our biggest "win" ideas aren't even that technical though |
| 01:11.09 | brlcad | like a better (i.e. easier to learn/use) modeling interface |
| 01:11.40 | brlcad | real-time shaded displays, consistent graphical interface |
| 01:12.41 | yukonbob | indeed. |
| 01:12.46 | yukonbob | hey, q: re usage |
| 01:13.39 | yukonbob | when you say "shoot a ray" -- what does that mean -- it detects where it collides with "something" in the model? |
| 01:13.49 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:14.12 | yukonbob | ?is "shot" like a vector start x,y,z, deltas x,y,z |
| 01:14.49 | brlcad | hm? deltas? |
| 01:15.05 | brlcad | a ray basically is a vector with a position and a direction |
| 01:15.32 | brlcad | shooting it basically asks/answers the question of what lies along that vector |
| 01:15.33 | yukonbob | right --- the directions are what I mean w/ deltas (change) |
| 01:15.54 | yukonbob | can things be traced with reflection/refraction as well? |
| 01:15.58 | brlcad | so you can talk about the first hit, segments, what objects are on a given shotline |
| 01:16.56 | brlcad | yes, that's what the ray-tracer does |
| 01:17.16 | brlcad | when it hits a surface with a given ray, it looks at the properties of what it hit |
| 01:17.25 | yukonbob | so you've got all the typical ray-tracer facilities available in your single ray that you can query. |
| 01:18.20 | brlcad | if the ray being first is for rendering an image, for example, and it hit something reflective, it'll then shoot a reflected ray to compute the light contribution from the reflected source |
| 01:20.27 | brlcad | a couple of the distinctions of BRL-CAD's ray-tracers and the librt ray-tracing library is that it'll 1) handle *everything* along a given shot line (not just the first hit) and 2) it handles implicit geometry along with CSG (instead of just explicit models (e.g. polygonal meshes)) |
| 01:22.28 | brlcad | there are other particular details, like brl-cad's multispecral library for dealing with non-visible light spectrums, but that's a differenent subject altogether |
| 01:22.43 | brlcad | rays themselves are pretty simple, as is shooting a ray |
| 01:23.09 | yukonbob | so much to learn ;) |
| 01:23.10 | brlcad | it's rather mathematical/simple in that it just answers the question, what does this ray encounter |
| 01:23.25 | brlcad | what happens when it does encounter something is entirely up to the given application |
| 01:24.02 | yukonbob | brlcad: could the ray say: once I encounter this, how much material would I go through if I kept on going, not stopped, reflected or refracted? |
| 01:24.12 | brlcad | for 'rt', it's trying to make a picture, so it works with our optics library and deals with reflections, diffusion, refraction, etc and simulates light transport (i.e. traditional image rendering ray-tracing) |
| 01:24.53 | brlcad | for analysis codes, the rays might be infrared energy (which has entirely different behaviors), or might even be something like a bullet or a fragment being simulated |
| 01:25.46 | brlcad | yes, the ray can say that -- and almost that exact question is what is performed in the MUVES-S2 analysis simulation that directly ties to BRL-CAD for V/L analyses |
| 01:27.04 | yukonbob | v/l? |
| 01:27.11 | brlcad | vulnerability/lethality |
| 01:27.18 | yukonbob | ah. |
| 01:28.23 | yukonbob | so awesome... thanks mike muuss, and sean (and everybody)... amazing piece of work. |
| 01:29.02 | brlcad | more simply, though, that's even the same question that's effectively answered if you wanted to simulate an xray machine .. how far the xrays can penetration depend on the types of materials, how thick they are, etc |
| 01:29.29 | brlcad | s/penetration/penetrate/ |
| 01:30.00 | yukonbob | apps like that would be custom-linked into libs though, right? |
| 01:30.12 | yukonbob | *custom-built and linked |
| 01:30.13 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 01:31.13 | yukonbob | with a bog-standard distro, can I come up w/ an xray model for a material w/o writing more software? Obviously I'll need to do my materials analysis, and waveform anaylsis, but otherwise, how tough? |
| 01:31.19 | brlcad | you'd have to write the driving application that encodes the physics of whatever you're trying to simulate (an xray simulation isn't the same as a radar simulation nor the same as simulating a v/l analysis, etc) |
| 01:32.26 | brlcad | well, in this case, brl-cad does already have an x-ray simulating renderer |
| 01:32.37 | brlcad | rtxray |
| 01:32.49 | brlcad | as well as thermal and a handful of others |
| 01:33.13 | yukonbob | so, based on the rtxray code, I could write an rt-alien-laser app, if I knew how alian lasers worked |
| 01:33.17 | yukonbob | *alien |
| 01:33.27 | brlcad | they become much easier to write once you have a simple/good ray-tracing interface that you can write to (which is the point of librt) |
| 01:33.34 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:33.45 | yukonbob | good to know when "they" come.... |
| 01:34.16 | brlcad | it's actually not too complicated at all if you know C |
| 01:34.31 | yukonbob | WE'RE READY FOR YOU... no wait a bit... we're compiling... OK.. NOW WE'RE READY FOR YOU!! |
| 01:34.54 | brlcad | there's some basic info at http://brlcad.org/example_app.php for example, the second link just opens a .g geometry file and shoots a ray at the model |
| 01:36.23 | poolio | Checkout beset for similar examples :) |
| 01:36.42 | poolio | g_qa.c in src/gtools/ is also good |
| 01:37.05 | brlcad | beset does considerably more :) |
| 01:37.29 | yukonbob | beset == the GA that's being worked on here, right? |
| 01:37.42 | poolio | yeah. but it initally fires rays at a model and stores them. |
| 01:37.55 | yukonbob | ?so can the rays physically affect the models |
| 01:37.59 | poolio | Probably not the best thing to look at, I just like selling crappy code. |
| 01:38.03 | poolio | No. |
| 01:38.10 | poolio | Well, you could code them so that they would |
| 01:38.42 | poolio | But shooting a ray at an object will not modify the database object |
| 01:45.20 | brlcad | you could easily write an application that fired rays and modeified the geometry as part of the process (so you could have a FPS shooter game, for example, where you shoot at things and it actually leaves holes or blows things up or chips away at them, etc) |
| 01:48.22 | yukonbob | didn't even realize that those words were coming from you at first ;) |
| 01:55.52 | poolio | hi yukonbob. I'd ignore my words and go for brlcad. he knows ... a tad bit more :) |
| 01:56.56 | poolio | There was some real-time raytracing FPS thingy sometime recently |
| 01:57.02 | yukonbob | w/ brlcad? |
| 01:57.38 | yukonbob | btw, I wasn't ignoring your words -- just wasn't looking at < poolio> versus <@brlcad> :) |
| 01:59.14 | brlcad | ray-tracing's being used in several games now, and will probably dominate before too long |
| 01:59.49 | brlcad | even the video card makers have started to provide the hooks so that you can perform ray-tracing on the GPU now easily enough for most rendering purposes |
| 02:00.42 | yukonbob | are you talking about GL? |
| 02:11.35 | brlcad | nope |
| 02:11.36 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: nirt/query_ray reports intersection messages in triplicate if the shot routines miss but still print out messages |
| 02:11.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: comments and curlies |
| 02:11.59 | brlcad | talking about video cards actually doing ray-tracing to generate the display image |
| 03:12.16 | *** join/#brlcad npcdoom (n=npcdoom@gugve/developer/npcdoom) | |
| 03:58.05 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667326.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:30.49 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 05:32.12 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-105-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:23.26 | brlcad | ah yeah, there he is just earlier today |
| 07:23.36 | brlcad | ~ww |
| 07:23.37 | ibot | Wrong Window. |
| 07:23.43 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 09:06.24 | yukonbob | ~wtf |
| 09:06.31 | yukonbob | ~botsnack |
| 09:06.31 | ibot | thanks, yukonbob |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/librt/g_rec.c): |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: fixed a bug encountered when ray-tracing really tiny TGC objects (sub-millimeter |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: size) caused by the REC prep routine thinking it was a valid right elliptical |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: cone (when it wasn't). the problem was due to a bad magnitude check and an |
| 09:06.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: insufficient hard-coded 'smallness' constant. the result was rays that would |
| 09:06.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: miss portions of the tgc entirely, only counting the 'middle' portion that would |
| 09:06.42 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: have corresponded with an REC. |
| 09:07.20 | yukonbob | ~wtf ath |
| 09:07.29 | yukonbob | ~wtf ls |
| 09:07.59 | brlcad | ~ath |
| 09:08.11 | yukonbob | hey brlcad |
| 09:08.14 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 09:08.37 | yukonbob | I made a bot that interfaced to wtf as well, but notice that they interface to their own db, as well as manpages, etc. |
| 09:08.43 | yukonbob | ~wtf dd |
| 09:09.10 | yukonbob | ~wtf SMP |
| 09:09.23 | brlcad | yeah, to an extent |
| 09:09.35 | brlcad | ~smp |
| 09:09.35 | ibot | it has been said that smp is (Symmetric Multi Processing) This refers to a technology where a computer uses multiple processors to process different instructions at the same time, in separate processing units. It is a form of parallel computing.. A feature of an SMP system is that it uses shared memory between all the processors, rather than each processor having ... |
| 09:09.54 | yukonbob | ~tuning |
| 09:10.03 | yukonbob | ~wtf tuning |
| 09:10.24 | brlcad | there's a different command to ask it more general terms.. |
| 09:10.25 | yukonbob | ~wtf security |
| 09:10.38 | brlcad | forget the name atm, though |
| 09:10.54 | brlcad | ibot: literal wtf |
| 09:10.55 | ibot | "where" is "<reply> who?" |
| 09:11.13 | yukonbob | ~wtf rmmod |
| 09:11.24 | yukonbob | now I know it's running on a linux box... |
| 09:11.39 | yukonbob | ~wtf deb |
| 09:11.40 | brlcad | yeah, tim's a debian nut |
| 09:11.45 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 09:13.18 | yukonbob | I've got a bot interface silc->wtf, and noticed that it grabs info from the manpages as well... might be able to constrain w/ 'wtf -f <database>', but I'm not sure if it constrains or not... |
| 09:13.46 | yukonbob | ~wtf bind |
| 09:13.53 | yukonbob | ~wtf named |
| 09:14.00 | yukonbob | ~wtf php |
| 09:14.04 | yukonbob | ~wtf php5 |
| 09:14.11 | yukonbob | ~wtf php4 |
| 09:14.55 | brlcad | ~whatis named |
| 09:15.10 | brlcad | ~apropos php |
| 09:15.10 | ibot | php: nothing appropriate |
| 09:15.56 | yukonbob | ~apropos http |
| 09:15.57 | ibot | http: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.04 | yukonbob | ~apropos perl |
| 09:16.05 | ibot | perl: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.10 | brlcad | ~apropos list |
| 09:16.10 | ibot | list: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.13 | yukonbob | ~apropos python |
| 09:16.14 | ibot | python: nothing appropriate |
| 09:16.15 | brlcad | *shrug* |
| 09:16.19 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 09:18.34 | brlcad | (speaking of perl, blootbot is written in perl) |
| 09:18.47 | yukonbob | is ibot a blootbot? |
| 09:18.58 | brlcad | ~ibot |
| 09:18.59 | ibot | methinks ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 09:19.21 | yukonbob | ~wtf tcl |
| 09:19.24 | yukonbob | ~wtf tclsh |
| 09:19.33 | yukonbob | ~apropos tcl |
| 09:19.34 | ibot | tcl: nothing appropriate |
| 09:19.38 | brlcad | i don't think wtf does what you think it does :) |
| 09:19.39 | yukonbob | ~apropos sqlite |
| 09:19.40 | ibot | sqlite: nothing appropriate |
| 09:19.56 | yukonbob | ~wtf iptables |
| 09:20.03 | brlcad | other than that |
| 09:20.12 | brlcad | :) |
| 09:20.19 | brlcad | factinfo wtf |
| 09:20.22 | brlcad | ~factinfo wtf |
| 09:20.22 | ibot | there's no such factoid as wtf, brlcad |
| 09:20.45 | brlcad | ~kernel |
| 09:20.53 | yukonbob | ! |
| 09:20.56 | yukonbob | ~rootpass |
| 09:20.59 | brlcad | heh |
| 09:21.24 | brlcad | that's just saying which are available/current |
| 09:21.59 | brlcad | ~nickometer yukonbob |
| 09:22.11 | brlcad | ~nullski |
| 09:22.17 | yukonbob | I guess thats good... |
| 09:22.23 | brlcad | :) |
| 09:22.32 | brlcad | it does more interesting things on folks with lame nicks ;) |
| 09:22.56 | brlcad | doesn't take to kindly to use of punctuation and certain styles of case |
| 09:23.02 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter brlcad |
| 09:23.03 | ibot | brlcad is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.18 | yukonbob | heh -- that's gotta be hardcoded |
| 09:23.23 | brlcad | heh |
| 09:23.26 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter poolio |
| 09:23.26 | ibot | poolio is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.33 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter joe |
| 09:23.33 | ibot | joe is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.44 | yukonbob | ~nickmeter l33td00d |
| 09:23.45 | ibot | l33td00d is 100% lame with a cherry on top! |
| 09:23.47 | brlcad | ~literal nickmeter |
| 09:24.04 | brlcad | ~nickometer l33td00d |
| 09:24.16 | brlcad | nickOmeter ;) |
| 09:24.30 | brlcad | ~factinfo nickmeter |
| 09:24.30 | ibot | there's no such factoid as nickmeter, brlcad |
| 09:24.38 | yukonbob | ~nickometer brlcad |
| 09:24.44 | yukonbob | better |
| 09:24.51 | yukonbob | ~nickometer poolio |
| 09:24.59 | yukonbob | ~nickometer joe |
| 09:25.14 | brlcad | he does have me hard coded for a few things |
| 09:25.33 | brlcad | probably because we don't see eye to eye on lots of issues, but probably half joke too |
| 09:25.48 | brlcad | ooh |
| 09:25.55 | brlcad | ~piglatin hello, how are you |
| 09:26.19 | brlcad | ~slashdot |
| 09:26.39 | brlcad | ~uptime |
| 09:26.51 | yukonbob | ^-- that's what I need to get my silcbot to do -- |
| 09:26.56 | yukonbob | (slashdot) |
| 09:27.06 | brlcad | ~zippy hello |
| 09:27.21 | brlcad | ~zippy |
| 09:27.32 | brlcad | ~zsi |
| 09:27.58 | brlcad | ~insult yukonbob |
| 09:28.14 | yukonbob | !nice |
| 09:28.35 | brlcad | ~lart yukonbob |
| 09:28.35 | ibot | takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in yukonbob's direction, hitting yukonbob and sending yukonbob flying into the closet |
| 09:28.36 | yukonbob | bottricks ;) |
| 09:28.48 | brlcad | ~botsnack |
| 09:28.48 | ibot | :), brlcad |
| 09:30.26 | yukonbob | ~lart laniakea |
| 09:30.27 | ibot | slaps laniakea upside the head with a wet fish |
| 09:31.03 | brlcad | some of the best features are bzflag-specific as well as just ibot's pretty extensive factoid database |
| 09:31.13 | brlcad | probably one of the biggest if not the biggest around |
| 09:31.35 | brlcad | as it's been up and running in dozens of highly popular channels for nearly a decade now |
| 09:31.42 | yukonbob | ?bzflag, as in my favourite tank game |
| 09:31.49 | yukonbob | ~bzflag |
| 09:31.50 | ibot | from memory, bzflag is a 3D internet multiplayer multiplatform (win32, linux, mac, etc) opensource opengl Battlezone capture the flag game of the same name that you must try at http://BZFlag.org/ or a continual development project with periodic gaming interuptions. See also TimRiker |
| 09:32.00 | brlcad | ~bzflist |
| 09:32.24 | brlcad | wow, that's low, but I suppose it is late |
| 09:32.31 | brlcad | that's a live query |
| 09:32.38 | brlcad | there are 81 people playing right now |
| 09:32.56 | brlcad | usually it's around 200 24/7 |
| 09:33.50 | brlcad | bzflag is where I spend the rest of my time on-line, leading up development efforts there |
| 09:34.39 | brlcad | ~x en es it is almost time to sleep |
| 09:35.27 | yukonbob | well -- I used to spend more time w/ BZFlag, but not in a while... NetBSD is just getting DRM/DRI that will hopefully "stick" this time... |
| 09:36.42 | yukonbob | ?is tim involved with ARL, or just BRLCAD, or neither (or both)? |
| 09:36.57 | brlcad | none |
| 09:37.08 | brlcad | tim's not even really involved with bzflag any more |
| 09:37.22 | brlcad | he's not been involved in development for several years now |
| 09:38.22 | brlcad | http://www.ohloh.net/projects/189/analyses/latest/contributors |
| 09:38.56 | yukonbob | you're winning ;) |
| 09:38.58 | brlcad | a little misleading as our ohloh stats have been offline for the past five/six months |
| 09:39.22 | brlcad | he's still flat-lined though (just others have had plenty, mine picked up substantially for example) |
| 09:39.36 | brlcad | ah, I had him passed up a couple years ago |
| 09:40.42 | brlcad | reminds me that I need to figure out why our svn repo won't process |
| 09:50.21 | yukonbob | :) |
| 09:50.33 | yukonbob | anwyay -- I think I'm off to bed... |
| 09:50.40 | brlcad | yeah, me too |
| 09:50.40 | yukonbob | talk later brlcad :) |
| 09:50.44 | brlcad | cya bob |
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| 14:05.33 | *** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.230.243.86) | |
| 14:06.09 | ertugerata | salut |
| 14:35.29 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 14:46.36 | ertugerata | salut poolio |
| 16:59.51 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@cpc1-lewi6-0-0-cust675.bmly.cable.ntl.com) | |
| 17:21.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/shoot.c: make sure there is a hit routine to call, otherwise it's a miss |
| 18:42.22 | *** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.230.243.86) | |
| 18:42.31 | ertugerata | salut |
| 19:29.11 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 19:54.38 | ``Erik | brlcad, do you exist? |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: rework the quadratic root solver to handle some additional exceptional cases |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: where either the coefficients or the discriminate are zero. ideally we could |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: presume we're solving equations that don't have floating point fuzz, and could |
| 20:00.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: check for for ieee zero equivalence but alas we cannot without causing |
| 20:00.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: additional instability. |
| 20:00.54 | brlcad | ``Erik: sometimes |
| 20:06.25 | ``Erik | gonna be in on monday? |
| 20:07.39 | ``Erik | I surspect ed is walking to his office to call you to see if you'll be in on monday morning, heh |
| 20:09.08 | brlcad | yes, I wil |
| 20:09.56 | ``Erik | ok, I'll let him know so he doesn't call ya :) |
| 20:13.09 | ``Erik | he sent you an email saying why and when |
| 20:18.02 | brlcad | i'd just e-mailed him as well |
| 20:56.16 | PrezKennedy | i hate printers |
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| 22:26.10 | dtidrow | evening all |
| 22:26.46 | dtidrow | what's a good starter book for Tcl/Tk? |
| 22:38.33 | yukonbob | dtidrow: Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk is good. |
| 22:39.09 | yukonbob | as is the wiki... wiki.tcl.tk |
| 22:39.13 | yukonbob | and #tcl on freenode |
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| 00:24.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/libbu/parallel.c src/rt/main.c src/rt/opt.c): |
| 00:24.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: allow the ray-tracers to use more than the available cpus for debugging and |
| 00:24.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: testing purposes. this was previously only possible via compile-time |
| 00:24.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: modifications, but now is possible via the BU_DEBUG_PARALLEL debug flag (-\!10 |
| 00:24.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: on most of the raytracers). |
| 00:51.04 | ``Erik | (extra points for prime #'s... even is bad) |
| 00:52.24 | Twingy | got my first bugzilla posting for a user using gEDA + GCAM |
| 00:52.35 | ``Erik | cool |
| 00:52.38 | ``Erik | easy fix? :D |
| 00:52.42 | Twingy | yea |
| 00:53.30 | Twingy | when I finished the initial release of the RS274X -> G-Code algorithm I decided I will just let the users find the bugs and I will fix them if any cropped up rather than spend a zillion hours coming up with test cases |
| 00:53.55 | ``Erik | heh, the microsoft approach |
| 00:54.06 | Twingy | the users can go in and fix it themselves though |
| 00:54.08 | ``Erik | didja at least throw a disclaimer up to warn the poor fools? :) |
| 00:54.11 | Twingy | LGPL |
| 00:54.15 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 00:54.24 | Twingy | well they will see if there is a problem, i.e. broken traces |
| 00:54.44 | Twingy | you can visually see the problem if the algorithm breaks down |
| 00:55.04 | Twingy | ~1k lines of code for the algorithm |
| 00:55.15 | ``Erik | on the screen, right? don't have to burn copperclad or anything to 'test'? :) |
| 00:55.16 | Twingy | not much in the way of optimizations either |
| 00:55.40 | Twingy | yes, they can also do a render to execute the g-codes on a virtual piece of material |
| 00:56.18 | Twingy | this is far from omfg |
| 00:56.30 | ``Erik | well, simple removal for path, right? |
| 00:56.47 | Twingy | it needs to a tesselator option to go along with the voxel version I have now |
| 00:56.53 | ``Erik | not taking things like cutting stresses and strains and removed materials paths into consideration? |
| 00:56.59 | ``Erik | heat warping, etc... |
| 00:57.03 | Twingy | no physics yet... |
| 00:57.14 | ``Erik | <-- bets it's still a hell of a lot more than 99.999% of other things out there |
| 00:57.37 | Twingy | but some of the support for it is in place such as material type, machine configuration, end mill type |
| 00:58.08 | Twingy | I need to figure out how to make a debian package so that I can get it included in the EMC distribution |
| 00:58.33 | Twingy | once I add isolationing to the interface I can easily get it added to the gEDA suite |
| 00:58.34 | ``Erik | heh, make a debian subdir and build a 'rules' file, then use the tools to generate all the other crap |
| 00:58.54 | Twingy | I have a page book marked that tells me how to do it, just haven't had time to do it yet |
| 00:58.58 | ``Erik | <-- dorked with it many years ago, was never 100% successful... rpm sucks balls, but was way easier to package :/ |
| 00:59.19 | Twingy | I have about 25 outstanding features and bugs |
| 00:59.49 | Twingy | I do about 2 a month |
| 00:59.58 | ``Erik | no contributed patches yet? |
| 01:00.05 | Twingy | actually I have a couple |
| 01:00.12 | Twingy | the beginning of STL support |
| 01:00.28 | ``Erik | cool |
| 01:00.48 | Twingy | but people fail to realize that adding DXF/STL parses is far less complicated than writing the contour pocketing algorithm that makes milling triangle meshes possible |
| 01:01.20 | Twingy | so I get alot of emails about people telling me that they can write a DXF/STL parser for me and contribute it to the project... |
| 01:01.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:02.02 | ``Erik | so ya know where the voxels are.. how the hell do ya cut it? :D |
| 01:02.07 | Twingy | so I basically need to get around to writing that to stop people from emailing me about that |
| 01:02.55 | Twingy | then I can use something like blender to do some obscure geometries (haven't come across any projects that I can't model in gcam yet) |
| 01:03.01 | Twingy | I think the mesh support is mainly for artists |
| 01:03.44 | Twingy | the only thing the comes to mind where meshes could be useful is in designing a airplane propeller |
| 01:03.58 | ``Erik | <-- is in 'wasting time on small task' mode, might do some importer/exporter stuff in brlcad... kinda thinking game related stuff first (md2, 3ds, quake mapper crap, bz worlds...) |
| 01:04.18 | Twingy | you've been talking about games for like 6 years now... |
| 01:04.25 | ``Erik | mebbe I'll take a peek at gcam for those :D |
| 01:04.34 | ``Erik | well, yeah, and I wrote a few... mostly functional... |
| 01:04.58 | ``Erik | the sticker for me seems to be fast/simple/robust collision detection |
| 01:05.07 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 01:06.12 | Twingy | it will be neat to see what kind of computing architectures are available once I get bored of this aerospace stuff |
| 01:06.50 | ``Erik | well, ok, my tendancy to go heavy on scripting and grabbing 'compact' solutions of high level scripting languages also has been an issue for me... |
| 01:07.09 | ``Erik | siod sucks goat balls for game scripting as it uses stop© gc, resulting in regular hitching :/ |
| 01:07.54 | Twingy | over my head |
| 01:08.59 | Twingy | if some one writes a graphical interface between gschem and pcb I believe the death of EAGLE will occur within 5 years |
| 01:16.15 | Twingy | I thought it was pretty ignorant of wendy to ask me if I knew any programmers she could hire |
| 01:45.28 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) | |
| 01:50.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:51.02 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 01:51.25 | ``Erik | did you say something along the lines of "I would never subject any of my friends or even my enemies to you."? :D |
| 02:02.54 | Twingy | nah, I replied "ok" |
| 03:06.52 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_disk.c: get rid of a memory chunk not being released until exit that doesn't need to be mallocated in the first place since it's a fixed size |
| 03:08.21 | yukonbob | ~lart brlcad |
| 03:08.21 | ibot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps brlcad |
| 03:08.27 | yukonbob | heh |
| 03:08.34 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 03:15.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (29 files): remove the fblocal.h header file. it was only used in three places (two files) and only contained one macro (wrapper to fb_log an error), so keep it simple until it's really needed. |
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| 05:57.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: oops, remove the sigill signal handler vestige I was using for debugging. |
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| 08:42.05 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (light.h shadework.h): quell warning, ifdef instead of if rt_multispectral |
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| 09:11.51 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: quell unused warning |
| 09:16.12 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: quell HAVE_DECLSPEC warning |
| 09:32.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: meh |
| 09:39.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (hurt.c Makefile.am): |
| 09:39.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: add an experimental 'minimal' testing ray tracer based on rt that is just one |
| 09:39.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: file. it's a humongous unified ray tracer (hurt) that shouldn't even be |
| 09:39.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: compiled by default. presently weighs in at about 2k lines total (not including |
| 09:39.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: lib code) with huge portions of rt functionality ripped out. again, this is |
| 09:39.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: just for experimental use only so don't expect anything to come of this. |
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| 15:01.09 | louipc | cool that weird crash I had disappeared |
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| 18:13.20 | brlcad | louipc: using the latest release? |
| 19:18.28 | louipc | brlcad: yep. I was suspecting it might have been gcc or glibc which I've updated since last time :/ |
| 19:18.41 | brlcad | either way, cool |
| 19:29.53 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 19:40.25 | louipc | I made a new archlinux PKGBUILD. http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?do_Details=1&ID=8320 |
| 19:45.45 | brlcad | hah, awesome |
| 19:45.49 | brlcad | you beat all the other builds |
| 19:47.04 | louipc | :D |
| 19:47.30 | brlcad | care to put/update your build files in cvs? |
| 19:47.43 | louipc | sure |
| 19:48.18 | louipc | there have been some changes to the archlinux packaging system too since the last one |
| 19:48.41 | brlcad | all the better reason for you to update it than me :) |
| 19:49.12 | brlcad | there, you should have access |
| 19:49.29 | brlcad | i'd put the previous build files along with some other details into the misc/archlinux dir |
| 19:49.32 | louipc | do you want me to make a PKGBUILD.in like you have already? |
| 19:49.39 | brlcad | feel free to change/update as needed |
| 19:50.22 | louipc | ok |
| 19:50.58 | brlcad | you don't have to, but I'm hoping to eventually get to the point where all of the platforms are auto-generated come release time |
| 19:51.23 | brlcad | even with the .in, it still requires some hand-tweaking at the moment for the md5's |
| 19:52.01 | louipc | that'd be cool |
| 19:52.19 | brlcad | won't be able to get around that without an sh/make_pacmac.sh or something that can generate everything automatically |
| 20:14.12 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-001-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 20:16.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (102 files in 5 dirs): update from libpng 1.2.16 to 1.2.19, picking up a handful of fixes. nothing too critical as far as I can tell, but does reportedly include a minor security fix and major bug fixes (going from freshmeat categories) |
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| 02:22.07 | poolio | brlcad: I'm in Pittsburgh :) |
| 02:27.01 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@12.180.114.2) | |
| 04:38.39 | brlcad | :) |
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| 07:31.35 | ertugerata | salut |
| 07:58.08 | brlcad | salut! |
| 07:59.24 | ertugerata | brlcad configure ne trouve pas TK library |
| 07:59.50 | brlcad | ertugerata: can you pastebin the configure output? |
| 08:00.08 | ertugerata | one minute |
| 08:00.11 | brlcad | thx |
| 08:02.02 | ertugerata | http://contrib.pardus.org.tr/buildlogs/brlcad.log brlcad |
| 08:02.38 | brlcad | eep |
| 08:02.41 | brlcad | /usr/bin/libtoolize: line 93: echo: write error: Broken pipe |
| 08:02.43 | brlcad | ? |
| 08:03.20 | brlcad | also, 7.10.2. is posted :) |
| 08:04.07 | ertugerata | 7.10.2 stable ? |
| 08:05.58 | brlcad | or just cvs update |
| 08:06.15 | ertugerata | in my system TCLTK existe /usr/lib/tkConfig.sh and /usr/lib/tk8.5 |
| 08:06.19 | brlcad | yes, it should be stable, though it probably won't change your cofigure test results |
| 08:06.27 | brlcad | paste your config.log please? |
| 08:06.35 | ertugerata | thanks |
| 08:06.52 | brlcad | i see it correctly found libtk8.5 and found the header |
| 08:07.05 | brlcad | it later failed a test of whether it works |
| 08:07.14 | ertugerata | yes |
| 08:07.25 | brlcad | the config.log should have the reason why |
| 08:07.30 | ertugerata | 9 of 9 a problem |
| 08:07.40 | ertugerata | 8 of 9 |
| 08:07.43 | brlcad | :) |
| 08:08.14 | brlcad | config.log please? |
| 08:10.11 | brlcad | I just need like the last 200 lines in the file if it makes a difference |
| 08:10.35 | brlcad | also would be good to know exactly what your configure line is ./configure ....something... |
| 08:13.11 | ertugerata | brlcad :http://svn.pardus.org.tr/contrib/applications/science/brlcad/actions.py |
| 08:16.06 | brlcad | good lord! |
| 08:16.18 | brlcad | you can simplify that :) |
| 08:16.56 | ertugerata | why |
| 08:17.29 | brlcad | all of the enable/disables turn into: --disable-almost-everything --enable-iwidgets-build=yes --disable-static --disable-debug --enable-optimized |
| 08:17.50 | brlcad | no harm doing them all, but the --disable-almost everything turns everything off |
| 08:17.58 | ertugerata | hmm |
| 08:18.01 | brlcad | all of the *-build options |
| 08:18.16 | ertugerata | opennurbs ? |
| 08:18.47 | brlcad | opennurbs isn't used yet |
| 08:18.55 | brlcad | it builds, but it's exposed by a tool |
| 08:19.07 | ertugerata | disabled |
| 08:19.08 | brlcad | 7.10.2 forces it off |
| 08:19.52 | ertugerata | refresh actions.py |
| 08:20.29 | brlcad | no change |
| 08:20.52 | brlcad | also.. you set --prefix=/usr/brlcad, yet install docs into /usr/share ? |
| 08:20.56 | ertugerata | -ltk8.5 and -ltcl8.5 ? |
| 08:21.10 | ertugerata | docs in /usr/share ? |
| 08:21.39 | brlcad | ah, interesting you manually added -ltk8.5 .. did it need that? |
| 08:21.44 | ertugerata | db , simple_applications too |
| 08:22.01 | ertugerata | dont needed ? |
| 08:22.30 | brlcad | not a problem, just why different? /usr/share != /usr/brlcad |
| 08:22.50 | brlcad | anyways.. that's not the problem |
| 08:22.52 | brlcad | config.log? |
| 08:23.18 | ertugerata | wait je vais compiler |
| 08:23.32 | brlcad | config.log is generated after configure fails |
| 08:25.01 | ertugerata | in misc/enigma config.guess and config.sub needed ? |
| 08:25.35 | brlcad | during sub-configure, but not after |
| 08:25.58 | brlcad | step 9 of 9 :) |
| 08:29.20 | brlcad | takes that long to get the config.log? |
| 08:29.22 | brlcad | slow machine? |
| 08:29.43 | brlcad | config.log is in top dir, same dir as configure |
| 08:29.54 | brlcad | unless you build outside dir |
| 08:30.28 | ertugerata | p4 2.66 512 RAM |
| 08:30.36 | ertugerata | laptop |
| 08:31.12 | brlcad | configure should only take two or three minutes then.. |
| 08:31.25 | ertugerata | autogen.sh ? |
| 08:33.54 | ertugerata | same problem |
| 08:34.09 | brlcad | i'm sure.. that was not a fix |
| 08:34.13 | brlcad | I need the config.log :) |
| 08:34.32 | brlcad | not a fix, just a simplification |
| 08:34.52 | ertugerata | tous ? |
| 08:35.19 | brlcad | ~x fr en tous |
| 08:35.40 | brlcad | yes, all of config.log .. or last 500 lines |
| 08:36.06 | brlcad | ~x en fr whatever is easier, I just need to see the error in the config.log file |
| 08:37.10 | ertugerata | http://rafb.net/p/AoW8L568.html |
| 08:37.28 | ertugerata | last lines |
| 08:37.46 | brlcad | need more |
| 08:37.55 | ertugerata | all |
| 08:38.02 | brlcad | sorry, I thought 500 would be enough |
| 08:38.05 | brlcad | yeah, all |
| 08:38.09 | ertugerata | tanks |
| 08:38.13 | ertugerata | thanks |
| 08:39.48 | ertugerata | http://svn.pardus.org.tr/pardus/playground/ertugrul/experimantal/config.log |
| 08:40.00 | brlcad | thx |
| 08:41.35 | brlcad | wow |
| 08:41.59 | brlcad | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m528104f4 |
| 08:42.17 | brlcad | it actually did fail |
| 08:44.12 | ertugerata | why ? |
| 08:50.00 | ertugerata | where conftest ? |
| 08:50.03 | brlcad | i'm looking |
| 08:50.24 | brlcad | i get the same error on a different box, testing |
| 08:51.10 | brlcad | ahhhhh |
| 08:51.17 | brlcad | hrm |
| 08:51.27 | brlcad | fg |
| 08:52.17 | brlcad | compile this: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tktest.c |
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| 08:52.37 | Eren | hi |
| 08:53.11 | ertugerata | gcc -ltk8.5 ? |
| 08:53.51 | brlcad | something like: g++ tktest.c -I/usr/X11R6/include -L/usr/X11R6/lib -ltcl8.5 -ltk8.5 -lX11 -lXss |
| 08:55.12 | brlcad | I basically get a DISPLAY error |
| 08:55.33 | brlcad | which makes sense.. the machine I was testing was a remote server with no X11 display |
| 08:55.46 | Eren | brb |
| 08:55.50 | ertugerata | in root console a display error |
| 08:55.59 | brlcad | that's why configure is failing |
| 08:57.33 | brlcad | edit configure.ac -- change the return 1 to a return 0 after "Tk_Init returned error" line |
| 08:57.33 | ertugerata | in root console X dont work |
| 08:57.45 | brlcad | yeah, the check isn't good |
| 08:58.37 | brlcad | it's there because there are lots of systems where tk_init fails for other reasons.. that test tries to make sure the library works, not test X11 |
| 09:02.02 | Eren | brlcad: so, you say "hack it!" |
| 09:02.03 | Eren | :) |
| 09:03.21 | brlcad | unless you want to help me make a better test :) |
| 09:03.38 | brlcad | i'm trying to find a better function call to make for libtk instead of Tk_Init |
| 09:11.54 | ertugerata | brlcad: fixed in CVS ? |
| 09:13.40 | Eren | brlcad: we don't want to package it immediately, we can wait for your solution |
| 09:22.17 | yukonbob | brlcad: are you not using tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh? |
| 09:23.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 09:23.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: improve the libtk functionality test with the help of ertugerata (thx!) so that |
| 09:23.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: it no longer uses Tk_Init() (which had the unfortunate side-effect of attempting |
| 09:23.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: to talk to an X11 server and wanting DISPLAY to be set). instead, it now uses |
| 09:23.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Tk_GetScrollInfo which basically just parses a number out of a string. |
| 09:23.37 | brlcad | yukonbob: what for? |
| 09:23.59 | brlcad | ertugerata | Eren: there that should fix it |
| 09:24.03 | yukonbob | you're testing for installed Tk? |
| 09:24.21 | brlcad | yes, testing that it actually can call a symbol |
| 09:25.05 | brlcad | at this point, it's already tested that the lib links and that the headers link -- the third/last test is an actual functionality test where it runs a program that calls a symbol in that lib |
| 09:25.25 | brlcad | this is done for pretty much all external dependencies as part of determining whether we need to compile them or not |
| 09:25.26 | Eren | brlcad: okay, is CVS version stable? |
| 09:25.32 | Eren | brlcad: could you please backport the patch :( |
| 09:25.38 | Eren | I'm autoconf newbie |
| 09:25.46 | yukonbob | brlcad: extensive ;) |
| 09:26.22 | yukonbob | ~lart brlcad |
| 09:26.22 | ibot | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking brlcad's head off |
| 09:26.27 | yukonbob | ! |
| 09:26.31 | yukonbob | violent |
| 09:27.53 | brlcad | Eren: backport? the tarball's already posted, I can't pull it .. but yes, cvs is pretty stable most of the time -- there is a STABLE branch, but it's not been synchronized with latest release just yet |
| 09:28.11 | brlcad | Eren: I can provide a patch, would that help? |
| 09:28.31 | brlcad | yukonbob: necessary |
| 09:28.40 | Eren | brlcad: if cvs is stable, we can package cvs version |
| 09:29.18 | brlcad | Eren: what are you packaging on? |
| 09:29.30 | Eren | brlcad: hm? |
| 09:29.37 | Eren | sorry, I don't get ti |
| 09:29.39 | Eren | it* |
| 09:29.45 | ertugerata | brlcad: me packaging |
| 09:29.46 | brlcad | i saw the python build file -- what package system is that? |
| 09:30.26 | brlcad | mm, i should too |
| 09:30.27 | brlcad | cya yukonbob |
| 09:30.55 | Eren | brlcad: ahh :) it's "pisi" |
| 09:31.09 | Eren | Pardus uses pisi for package management |
| 09:31.51 | Eren | brlcad: pisi uses python scripts and xml schemas |
| 09:31.58 | brlcad | there's one I've not heard of yet :) |
| 09:32.00 | Eren | it's great, and easy-to-understand spec files |
| 09:32.02 | ertugerata | Eren: in misc/enigma needed config.sub and config.guess ? |
| 09:33.24 | brlcad | I presume enigma's config files are called during enigma's sub-configure (which should occur now that the libtk test is fixed), but I can't say for sure |
| 09:33.51 | brlcad | they're certainly not critical files -- enigma is not important (at all) |
| 09:34.51 | brlcad | Eren: if you'd like access to keep your spec files in cvs, just let me know -- glad to have folks working on package system integration |
| 09:35.11 | Eren | brlcad: thank you, |
| 09:35.18 | Eren | when we ok, I'll let you know |
| 09:35.37 | brlcad | there's already a handful in misc/ for archlinux and a few others in the works |
| 09:36.05 | brlcad | it's only really recently that integration has been more reasonably possible now that we've finally gotten away from a customized tk |
| 09:36.54 | brlcad | okay, time to sleep .. cya! |
| 09:37.07 | brlcad | leave me a note here if you need anything, I read the backlog |
| 09:37.26 | Eren | brlcad: enjoy |
| 09:38.05 | brlcad | oh, and if you do get it working and what to be included in release notifications, let me know and I'll add you to our list in the HACKING file |
| 09:39.02 | Eren | brlcad: ah, just one question |
| 09:39.13 | Eren | brlcad: the last change (last commit) is in the tarball? |
| 09:39.40 | brlcad | no, the tarball was posted a couple days ago |
| 09:39.54 | Eren | I mean, the tk problem |
| 09:39.57 | brlcad | next release won't be for a three or four weeks |
| 09:40.12 | Eren | hmm, ok, so we should checkout cvs repository |
| 09:40.13 | brlcad | the last change is in cvs |
| 09:40.32 | brlcad | I can make a patch that you can apply to the tarball, but I can't change the posted tarball |
| 09:41.09 | brlcad | if you want to wait, there will be another release in just a couple weeks that will have the fix too |
| 09:41.25 | Eren | brlcad: ahh, patching release tarball is more common, maybe you can release a patch in your home page? |
| 09:41.42 | Eren | and users who don't want to get cvs checkout will be able to build it |
| 09:42.06 | brlcad | we try to make monthly releases |
| 09:42.12 | Eren | okay |
| 09:42.22 | brlcad | avoids the headaches of dealing with patches |
| 09:42.28 | brlcad | and keeps things rolling |
| 09:42.59 | Eren | brlcad: hey, tk problem is fixed, but my friend (ertugerata who don't know English well) says there is an error in "mics/enigma" |
| 09:43.09 | Eren | config.sub and config.guess files are missing he says |
| 09:43.21 | brlcad | hrm, that's odd |
| 09:43.35 | brlcad | he was asking if those files were needed |
| 09:43.46 | brlcad | was that because of the error or because he wanted to remove them? :) |
| 09:44.19 | Eren | brlcad: I think, because of the error |
| 09:44.29 | ertugerata | config.sub and config.guess in misc/enigma |
| 09:44.32 | brlcad | more importantly, what exactly is that error? |
| 09:44.55 | Eren | brlcad: 1 min pls |
| 09:47.01 | brlcad | my guess would be an autoreconf bug -- it has all sorts of issues with recursive configures, depending on the specific version being used -- I don't recommend calling it directly, we provide an autogen.sh script that takes care of many autotools issues |
| 09:47.54 | Eren | shelltools.system("sh autogen.sh") |
| 09:48.00 | brlcad | sure |
| 09:48.03 | Eren | brlcad: calls autogen.sh |
| 09:48.07 | Eren | not calls directly |
| 09:48.47 | brlcad | I saw an autoreconf line in there originally, with options -fi or somesuch |
| 09:49.02 | brlcad | (in the .py file) |
| 09:49.08 | Eren | brlcad: it was fixed |
| 09:49.28 | Eren | I mean, "-fi" option |
| 09:50.02 | brlcad | i mean you call autogen.sh instead of autoreconf |
| 09:50.06 | brlcad | not together |
| 09:50.16 | Eren | ok, that's what I do |
| 09:50.22 | brlcad | okay |
| 09:52.25 | brlcad | alright, have to pick this up later -- it's pretty early/late here.. cya guys |
| 09:52.51 | Eren | brlcad: cya |
| 09:53.07 | Eren | brlcad: thanks for you help |
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| 18:12.30 | louipc | from 7.10.2 @PATCH_VERSION@ is 2 yeah? |
| 18:19.03 | brlcad | yes |
| 18:19.10 | brlcad | major.minor.patch |
| 18:19.26 | ``Erik | just like leenewx |
| 19:25.48 | yukonbob | heh -- My name is linux, and the proper way to say "linux", is "linux". :) |
| 19:26.01 | yukonbob | uh |
| 19:26.06 | yukonbob | *my name is linus |
| 19:26.13 | yukonbob | (finger memory) |
| 19:26.40 | yukonbob | ~lart yukonbob's fingers |
| 19:26.40 | ibot | beats yukonbob's fingers severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken |
| 19:27.44 | louipc | hahah |
| 19:27.56 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/Makefile.am: Some tweaks |
| 19:29.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD.in: ditto |
| 19:31.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD.static: just in case. |
| 19:32.58 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (brlcad.install brlcad.sh): |
| 19:53.56 | brlcad | just in case? :) |
| 19:58.42 | louipc | yeah the static one can be used as a reference at least anyways heh. the whole package should be installed in /opt for archlinux though |
| 20:36.45 | brlcad | is /opt required, or just the default? |
| 20:37.03 | brlcad | that was the only reason for making it configurable, so that it would respond to ./configure --prefix=/opt |
| 20:37.28 | brlcad | presumably folks that don't want it in opt might have it elsewhere, so it was templatized |
| 20:39.16 | brlcad | either way, shouldn't have both .in and non.in files as it'll cause cvs to always show one of them modified everytime someone builds |
| 20:46.58 | louipc | brlcad: it's an archlinux packaging standard to put large self-contained pkgs in /opt |
| 20:47.34 | louipc | hmm |
| 20:51.33 | brlcad | yes, but one that can be changed or required? :) |
| 20:51.57 | brlcad | not a big deal in the least, just a consideration |
| 20:52.19 | brlcad | either way, both versions shouldn't stay too :) |
| 20:52.25 | louipc | yeah well if BRL-CAD ever gets added to offical repos it'll be in /opt |
| 20:53.45 | brlcad | for sake of argument though, that's also the case with the freebsd ports system, but users can still use the official ports system and configure a different root if they are so inclined |
| 20:54.14 | louipc | so maybe it should go configurable |
| 20:54.15 | brlcad | most don't of course, so if you didn't know, you could think that it was the only way |
| 20:54.56 | brlcad | dunno, like I said -- is it really required for arch or just exceptionally common to use opt? |
| 20:59.31 | yukonbob | pwd |
| 20:59.34 | yukonbob | ww |
| 20:59.44 | louipc | I'd say it is required. but if someone wants to make a modified pkgbuild that's fine. I wouldn't expect them to go into the brlcad source for them though, rather from the archlinux servers. |
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| 21:35.41 | louipc | hmm different distros have different ways of doing things too :/ if you want to automate building pkgs for various distros maybe they should have separate @DISTRO_ROOT@ or something.. |
| 21:35.56 | louipc | I'm not really sure how to go about it |
| 21:53.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (7 files): OK. Make more configurable. I'll keep PKGBUILD.static to demonstrate Arch Linux packaging standards and defaults. |
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| 13:04.28 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
| 14:01.15 | ``Erik | "hurricane dickmasher" |
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| 14:50.23 | louipc | does that work for you? http://aur.louipc.dontexist.org/test.php |
| 14:51.12 | louipc | oops |
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| 18:40.34 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r236 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: verify an iterator is valid before we erase it. |
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| 02:19.42 | brlcad | louipc: yep, it sure does :) |
| 02:23.57 | louipc | yeah hehe I had some trouble setting up the vhost |
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| 04:41.05 | yukonbob | evening cadders ;) |
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| 10:41.00 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
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| 18:14.17 | yukonbob | brlcad: you were up early (or getting in late) :) |
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| 20:14.26 | ertugerata | salut |
| 20:15.30 | Maloeran | Bonsoir |
| 20:16.03 | ertugerata | Maloeran: tu parle français , moi je parle un peu |
| 20:17.13 | Maloeran | It's my first language, but most people here are more likely to be able to help in english |
| 20:17.49 | ertugerata | Maloeran: my first lang is turkish |
| 20:18.18 | ertugerata | i dont speak english |
| 20:18.41 | Maloeran | Ah je vois, je peux servir de traducteur alors |
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| 22:11.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:13.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: |
| 22:13.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Added code to account for discontinuous changes in radius. |
| 22:13.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Changed bend segments to use a bounding sphere (improved performance) |
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| 23:46.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: |
| 23:46.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Added a bounding box check to linear pipe segments. |
| 23:46.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: moved the bounding box/sphere checks into rt_pipe_shot() |
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| 23:54.39 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8c6JJG16.html <---- is this one known? |
| 00:00.03 | IriX64 | don't know why it didn't pick up the glx headers, sorry to have bothered you |
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| 08:28.10 | brlcad | hey daniel |
| 08:40.02 | d_rossberg | brlcad: you should get an e-mail right now :-) |
| 08:44.26 | brlcad | k:) |
| 08:44.36 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:44.45 | brlcad | ~d_rossberg++ |
| 08:45.08 | brlcad | I'm actually using your libraries for a project I'm working on (on Windows) |
| 08:52.58 | d_rossberg | :-))) maybe one day I'll learn how to use the BRL-CAD libraries on Linux |
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| 14:47.32 | d_rossberg | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:47.34 | d_rossberg | exit |
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| 00:29.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (21 files): |
| 00:29.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: change behavior by 1.0e-77 or 1.0e-39 such that we now consistently check |
| 00:29.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: whether values are > or <= SMALL (or SMALL_FASTF) instead of just < in some |
| 00:29.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: places and > in others. did not change the SQRT_SMALL_FASTFs (other than those |
| 00:29.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: via SMALL) just to make sure there are not any unexpected results with this |
| 00:29.56 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: batch first. this should of course only tweak edge cases that are well within |
| 00:29.58 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: floating point fuss, but they should be all treated consistently regardless. |
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| 00:43.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS NEWS): |
| 00:43.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: john fixed the pipe bug where pipes with discontinuous changes in inner radii |
| 00:43.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: would result in bad segments. while he was doing that, he added some space |
| 00:43.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: partitioning optimizations to speed them up some by using bounding boxes and |
| 00:43.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: spheres for the straight ends and bends respectively. |
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| 13:44.38 | MinuteElectron | So, I must have missed something being away for 10 days... |
| 14:02.31 | ``Erik | hm |
| 14:06.42 | MinuteElectron | I havce to go, the plane is leaving in a few minutes and I need to use the bathroom. |
| 14:06.45 | MinuteElectron | Laterz all. |
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| 18:31.50 | ``Erik | hmmmm |
| 18:57.45 | brlcad | find anything interesting? |
| 18:57.58 | brlcad | heh, cya MinuteElectron |
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| 19:05.32 | ``Erik | um |
| 19:05.39 | ``Erik | interesting might be an interesting word for it |
| 19:08.23 | ``Erik | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d6e32546b |
| 19:09.00 | ``Erik | (with debugging tcl and tk, and some extra printfs in tk's func |
| 19:09.04 | ``Erik | ) |
| 19:09.48 | ``Erik | crashes on my intel mac, too |
| 19:12.54 | ``Erik | (program is reduced in that paste...) |
| 19:14.16 | ``Erik | (why, yes, I was exploring some wildassed guesses) |
| 19:29.54 | ``Erik | hi, back, I'm erik. |
| 19:29.59 | ``Erik | HAR HAR HAR :D |
| 19:30.46 | MinuteElectron | Now, the big question is why the fsck can't I log into my Windows Live Messenger account. |
| 19:31.19 | ``Erik | microsoft has deemed you unworthy to partake as you have been spotted socializing with unix geeks. :( |
| 19:32.03 | MinuteElectron | :D |
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| 19:36.21 | ``Erik | hum, does it on the 32b version, as well |
| 19:38.14 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you busy? |
| 19:41.06 | poolio | brlcad: ahhhhhhhhh |
| 19:41.25 | poolio | brlcad: i'll get back to you later, i'm almost done the paper...rawr, sorry. I totally forgot and orientation has been crazy...but now it's time for convocation |
| 19:42.01 | ``Erik | 32b 85 failed, yet 84 succeeds |
| 19:44.30 | ``Erik | 64b 84 succeeds |
| 19:55.55 | MinuteElectron | Shit, why the hell does it take 6 hours to ultra 7z compress 7GB. |
| 20:10.07 | ``Erik | installing tcl and tk from the src/other dir and using those on that program causes seg |
| 20:14.51 | ``Erik | 85 from src/other on linux fails the same way |
| 20:28.15 | ``Erik | ah, but if I do a Tk_Init() before Tk_GetScrollInfo(), it works. Time to see the macro expansion. |
| 20:50.19 | ``Erik | I ssssseeeeeeeee |
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| 21:51.25 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: ... |
| 21:51.37 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What is the ststus of LDAP? |
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| 22:10.20 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: howdy, hope your trip was good! |
| 22:10.43 | MinuteElectron | Kind-of. |
| 22:10.58 | brlcad | poolio: i figured as much .. thanks, though -- hope it's going well for you |
| 22:10.59 | MinuteElectron | long story really |
| 22:11.15 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How have things been going here? |
| 22:11.59 | brlcad | poolio: not to set a bad precedent, but you can have through the weekend -- the meeting would have been today but I focused on a different matter |
| 22:12.06 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: pretty darn busy |
| 22:12.14 | MinuteElectron | ehhh |
| 22:12.19 | brlcad | you'll have to tell the story later today :) |
| 22:12.23 | MinuteElectron | I guess no LDAP then. |
| 22:12.29 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: today? |
| 22:12.41 | MinuteElectron | way too long |
| 22:12.48 | MinuteElectron | grandparents bickering |
| 22:12.56 | MinuteElectron | lots of stuff :D |
| 22:13.47 | MinuteElectron | (there is only 50 minutes left today in my time zone) |
| 22:17.01 | brlcad | well whenever you'd like :) |
| 22:17.14 | MinuteElectron | maybe tomorrow |
| 22:17.15 | brlcad | yeah, no ldap just yet, but I should be able to finally get to that this weekend |
| 22:17.21 | MinuteElectron | \o/ |
| 22:17.26 | MinuteElectron | that would be wonderful |
| 22:17.51 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 22:17.58 | MinuteElectron | I am tired so will be going to bed now. |
| 22:18.33 | brlcad | aiight |
| 22:18.35 | brlcad | sleep well! |
| 22:18.42 | MinuteElectron | The light wakes everyone up early in the appartment my grandparents have in Ireland. |
| 22:18.45 | MinuteElectron | thanks, goodnight |
| 22:20.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:23.03 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Quick question, is your server ipv6 compatible? |
| 22:27.35 | brlcad | inet6 fe80::20d:61ff:fe83:1638%rl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 |
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| 01:51.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c: |
| 01:51.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Rays parallel to the plane of a bend that missed the bend segment were producing |
| 01:51.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: error messaages from rt_poly_findroot(). Added a check for these misses in the |
| 01:51.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: bend segment shot routine (probably improves performance, too!!!). |
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| 13:27.37 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 14:03.10 | ``Erik | ahhhh, I think I found a func for the test |
| 14:11.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 14:11.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: The test for Tk failued for me on several platforms with no valid |
| 14:11.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: DISPLAY set (perhaps due to an X server running and just assuming |
| 14:11.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: unsetting display will do it? or perhaps tcl84, which worked... |
| 14:11.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: *shrug*). Changed the Tk_GetScrollInfo() to Tk_ParseArgv with the |
| 14:11.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: supporting framework and this seems to work consistantly for me. |
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| 20:18.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:18.49 | ``Erik | damn |
| 20:19.27 | ``Erik | finally got obsd sorta working, but it doesn't have ports on it and doesnt' have a lot of the little niceties of fbsd... so nothing seems to be working when I do muscle memory commands... |
| 20:19.37 | ``Erik | and I typed like 4 dos commands before realizing what I was doing |
| 20:19.38 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:24.35 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: What did you say the path to apache was here? |
| 20:24.50 | ``Erik | /usr/local/ |
| 20:24.54 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
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| 22:57.20 | jtmuzix | how would brl-cad run on a blade 2500, 2 X 1.6 ghz sparc IIIi, 4 gigs ram, 176 x 2 scsi HD, XVR1200? |
| 22:58.52 | brlcad | about 1729 |
| 22:59.16 | jtmuzix | huh? |
| 22:59.25 | brlcad | exactly what I was thinking with your question :) |
| 22:59.28 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 22:59.35 | brlcad | it'll run |
| 22:59.35 | jtmuzix | i mean would it be dog slow |
| 22:59.39 | brlcad | it should run just fine |
| 22:59.41 | jtmuzix | or could it render decently |
| 22:59.57 | jtmuzix | i realize that this box is a bit older |
| 23:00.01 | brlcad | depends what you're comparing it to, should be okay |
| 23:00.07 | jtmuzix | ok |
| 23:00.10 | brlcad | i mean it's not blazing, but it sure isn't dog slow either |
| 23:00.35 | brlcad | if you want a better feel, install brl-cad and run the "benchmark" tool |
| 23:00.51 | brlcad | that will give you a linear metric that will quantify its performance |
| 23:01.35 | jtmuzix | cool then I'll compare the blade 2500 performance to the performance of my 1.6ghz turion64x2 laptop |
| 23:01.54 | brlcad | yep, should give you a perfect comparison metric |
| 23:02.13 | brlcad | at least holistic cpu performance that directly relates to the render performance |
| 23:03.15 | jtmuzix | and then I'll compare it to my apple 8-way |
| 23:03.16 | jtmuzix | heh |
| 23:03.17 | jtmuzix | :P |
| 23:07.28 | brlcad | it's run on an apple IIc before and systems far older |
| 23:08.32 | jtmuzix | I'm trying to run MGED and it says it's missing the database |
| 23:09.06 | jtmuzix | must not be vista compatiable? |
| 23:09.07 | brlcad | you have to create/open a database |
| 23:09.13 | brlcad | it doesn't create one for you by default |
| 23:09.21 | brlcad | until you ask it to open one |
| 23:09.24 | brlcad | run "opendb test.g |
| 23:09.31 | brlcad | s/"// |
| 23:09.38 | brlcad | or go to File->New |
| 23:10.54 | jtmuzix | wow this program is pretty advanced |
| 23:11.15 | jtmuzix | what other cool 3d programs are available for sparc? |
| 23:11.22 | jtmuzix | engineering related... |
| 23:11.32 | jtmuzix | or is this the best one that's free |
| 23:11.58 | brlcad | it's of course pretty much the best one |
| 23:12.04 | brlcad | and i'm not at all biased |
| 23:12.07 | jtmuzix | that's cool |
| 23:12.12 | jtmuzix | its great |
| 23:12.20 | jtmuzix | now I'm going to go install it on my blade 2500 |
| 23:12.25 | jtmuzix | actually before i do that |
| 23:12.26 | brlcad | did you run benchmark? |
| 23:12.28 | jtmuzix | I want to run a test |
| 23:12.46 | jtmuzix | i need to create something that is highly 3d with z buffering and special effects |
| 23:12.52 | jtmuzix | something simple but that will push the CPU |
| 23:12.57 | jtmuzix | and then I want to benchmark |
| 23:13.12 | brlcad | there's a sample geometry file that is mildly complex to render |
| 23:13.40 | brlcad | havoc.g in your Samples folder if on Windows and in your /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/ directory on other platforms |
| 23:14.01 | jtmuzix | how do I run it? |
| 23:14.11 | jtmuzix | i have it loaded,now what? |
| 23:14.40 | brlcad | e havoc |
| 23:14.50 | brlcad | or go to Tools -> Geometry Browser |
| 23:15.05 | jtmuzix | this is frickin awesome |
| 23:15.07 | jtmuzix | wow |
| 23:15.10 | jtmuzix | i'm impressed |
| 23:16.35 | jtmuzix | i need to learn commands so i can do stuff |
| 23:16.40 | jtmuzix | I see the helicopter |
| 23:16.47 | brlcad | there's a bunch of docs on the website |
| 23:16.56 | jtmuzix | now i want to move it aorund and push the CPU more, add texture if possible, etc etc |
| 23:16.57 | brlcad | the mged quick reference sheet is good for commands |
| 23:17.15 | jtmuzix | is it possible to add texture in this program? |
| 23:17.18 | jtmuzix | and details |
| 23:17.19 | brlcad | there's a pretty detailed set of tutorials there as well, though they are gui-centric |
| 23:17.32 | brlcad | there is a texture shader, yes |
| 23:17.35 | jtmuzix | cool |
| 23:17.43 | jtmuzix | this will keep me busy for aw hile |
| 23:18.27 | brlcad | textures aren't generally used heavily, but it is there -- you'll want a stack shader that has texture and some other shading shader (like plastic) if you do apply one |
| 23:18.41 | brlcad | the advanced tutorial (vol III iirc) goes into how to use them |
| 23:20.03 | jtmuzix | I see |
| 23:20.07 | jtmuzix | thanks for the information |
| 23:20.11 | brlcad | talk to you later, I'm here most of the time when I'm not eating ;) feel free to ask more questions and idle or whatever suits ya .. cheers ;) |
| 23:20.15 | brlcad | np |
| 23:20.20 | jtmuzix | thanks agian |
| 23:45.16 | ``Erik | the interactive display is just wireframe, the textures and stuff are all for raytracing |
| 23:45.38 | ``Erik | so there is no zbuffer or anything going on... :) |
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| 02:04.04 | yukonbob | ``Erik: are you an ARL worker/brl-cad dev too? |
| 02:44.22 | brlcad | there is a z clipping opt on the wireframe, which really should be turned off by default.. |
| 03:48.58 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 03:49.02 | brlcad | how goes it |
| 04:11.16 | yukonbob | brlcad: can't complain -- nobody'd listen anyway ;) |
| 04:11.22 | yukonbob | yourself? |
| 04:46.32 | brlcad | heh |
| 04:46.46 | brlcad | just finished watching a movie, and belly is full, so doing pretty good |
| 05:00.07 | yukonbob | nice -- what movie? |
| 05:00.16 | yukonbob | (nice timelag we have going ;) |
| 05:52.41 | brlcad | yeah, just a lil :) |
| 05:52.47 | brlcad | Eragon |
| 05:53.17 | yukonbob | heh -- /me saw the making of the Eragon motorcycle on American Chopper... that's all I know of the movie ;) |
| 05:53.59 | brlcad | actually not to bad of a story, knew nothing about it but figured it's kinda hard to mess up a story with dragons |
| 05:54.34 | brlcad | which is what caught my eye, the dragon on the cover ;) |
| 05:55.02 | brlcad | i think i read somewhere that there's a book to or something, so I'd expect there might be more to follow |
| 06:01.59 | yukonbob | q: re: shooting rays (remember, I'm still running 7.8.5) |
| 06:02.51 | yukonbob | I ran rtxray -o myfile.bw database.g object_in_db, and got a file myfile.bw |
| 06:03.35 | yukonbob | it won't display in a fb, and when I converted to ps, all I got was a big black square (indicating nothing there, I guess) |
| 06:04.04 | yukonbob | can you give me a simple pointer or two wrt rays where I can see a result w/o too much fuss? |
| 06:08.38 | brlcad | will it display to a framebuffer? |
| 06:08.47 | brlcad | rtxray -F/dev/Xl database.g object |
| 06:09.06 | brlcad | and how are you displaying in an fb? |
| 06:09.31 | brlcad | last week was the departed, pan's labrynth, rocky balboa, and children of men |
| 06:09.39 | brlcad | all pretty excellent |
| 06:10.12 | brlcad | still left for this weekend are ringu and the persuit of happyness :) |
| 06:11.03 | yukonbob | rungu++ |
| 06:11.07 | yukonbob | *ringu |
| 06:11.23 | yukonbob | japanese horrors are scary |
| 06:14.05 | yukonbob | ?I can use /dev/Xn, where n is an incrementing #, but use only once, and once scene is rendered, fb disappears... |
| 06:14.43 | yukonbob | gets a bit of a weird 'blanking' on screen too, but that's got to be because of my dual monitor setup |
| 06:17.39 | yukonbob | nm -- it's working better ;) |
| 06:17.49 | yukonbob | it's always the operator |
| 06:18.11 | yukonbob | dunno what I was doing before, but now I can -o myfile.bw; bw-png myfile.bw > myfile.png |
| 06:25.33 | yukonbob | how can I change the 'ae' or 'rot' that I'll get w/ the rtxray? |
| 07:03.48 | *** join/#brlcad jtmuzix (n=jtmuzix@adsl-76-229-234-82.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) | |
| 07:03.58 | jtmuzix | whats up, I just discovered this program |
| 07:04.33 | jtmuzix | whats up, I just discovered this program? |
| 07:04.37 | jtmuzix | its pretty cool for being free.. as a comparison, what are the names of some commerical programs that costs thousands? |
| 07:06.03 | jtmuzix | for example |
| 07:06.26 | jtmuzix | when unix workstations were super popular for CAD and engineering, they ues them, however what software do firms use? |
| 07:06.35 | jtmuzix | or is it developed in-house? |
| 07:09.43 | jtmuzix | wow |
| 07:09.47 | jtmuzix | i am just rtfm |
| 07:10.15 | jtmuzix | this is way cool |
| 07:10.30 | jtmuzix | i discovered something that compares to what I could never afford |
| 07:10.40 | jtmuzix | now I just need to learn how to use it |
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| 07:46.00 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: There is a problem with the website. |
| 08:10.35 | MinuteElectron | fixed |
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| 08:16.22 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you able to provide a list of quotes, one or two will do for now. Also, what is the copyright for the website. |
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| 20:10.38 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: there's a good quote in the AUTHORS files |
| 20:10.42 | brlcad | s/files/file/ |
| 20:10.45 | brlcad | i'd start with that one |
| 20:11.00 | MinuteElectron | Okay, thanks. |
| 20:11.21 | brlcad | jtmuzix: feel free to ask any questions |
| 20:11.32 | brlcad | ah, offline |
| 20:13.51 | MinuteElectron | Wow, you were right. There are good quotes invloved in this software. |
| 20:14.19 | MinuteElectron | That is actually an amazing quote. |
| 20:20.04 | brlcad | probably :) |
| 20:20.34 | brlcad | would be nice if it could just be a simple text file that it reads from, so it's really easy to add more |
| 20:21.40 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, i was thinking of a simple to understand PHP array. |
| 20:21.41 | brlcad | that said, not a big deal either way :) |
| 20:21.46 | brlcad | that could work too |
| 20:22.03 | MinuteElectron | It would make randomisation easy and pretty simple to add to. |
| 20:22.04 | brlcad | there's probably a module for quotes, I'd have to imagine |
| 20:22.36 | MinuteElectron | I would be very wary of using that since it has to be interopable between Drupal and MediaWiki. |
| 20:23.27 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876309.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 20:23.53 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: http://my.brlcad.org/quotes.php |
| 20:24.05 | MinuteElectron | But another quote would be useful for ensuring the system works. |
| 20:34.39 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/quotes.txt |
| 20:34.58 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 20:36.42 | brlcad | there's a few more I could probably pull together but those are from mike's plan file, so quite apropos |
| 20:38.16 | MinuteElectron | oh I see. |
| 20:38.18 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:06.48 | MinuteElectron | on what? |
| 21:06.58 | yukonbob | http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/quotes.txt |
| 21:07.03 | MinuteElectron | same, crap |
| 21:07.09 | MinuteElectron | you made me refresh it |
| 21:07.55 | MinuteElectron | : |
| 21:07.57 | MinuteElectron | ( |
| 21:19.05 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:39.03 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: heh, i put it back |
| 21:39.42 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 21:40.09 | brlcad | got it? :) |
| 21:40.15 | MinuteElectron | Yes, thanks. |
| 21:40.18 | brlcad | :) |
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| 21:55.23 | ``Erik | dangit, I didn't!#~@ :D |
| 21:55.31 | ``Erik | why not just leave it? |
| 21:55.47 | brlcad | hehe |
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| 09:13.33 | Laniakea | Is it possible to include one .g file in another .g file? |
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| 17:58.23 | MinuteElectron | s/w 6 |
| 17:58.28 | MinuteElectron | sorry |
| 19:15.40 | brlcad | done |
| 19:17.21 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 20:40.20 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can you take a look at the http://my.brlcad.org/ |
| 20:40.25 | MinuteElectron | I have been working on the footer. |
| 20:40.59 | MinuteElectron | removed the big blocks and replaced it with a line similar to the top. |
| 20:41.18 | MinuteElectron | Not sure if I should switch the search to the left and quotes to the right |
| 20:49.41 | MinuteElectron | yeah, I think it looks nicer on the left |
| 20:52.50 | MinuteElectron | Also should I credit your nick or your name to the graphics? |
| 21:01.30 | brlcad | hm, looks nice though hopefully the search box is less redundant with some content there |
| 21:02.06 | brlcad | i don't need to be listed for the credits |
| 21:02.29 | brlcad | there should be a whole page dedicated to the site though for credits and similar matters |
| 21:04.22 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:04.31 | MinuteElectron | Who will hold copyright to the site content? |
| 21:04.35 | MinuteElectron | The authors? |
| 21:04.55 | MinuteElectron | Have you chosen a license yet also? |
| 21:05.12 | brlcad | good questions |
| 21:06.30 | brlcad | hm, as for copyright matters, my first inclination would be the same terms as the sources so that they can be interchanged (web docs become part of code and vice-vera) |
| 21:07.33 | MinuteElectron | LGPL then? |
| 21:08.12 | brlcad | BDL for the license |
| 21:08.33 | MinuteElectron | I don't know what that is. |
| 21:09.04 | brlcad | BSD documentation license |
| 21:09.25 | brlcad | basically the BSD license, but terms are worded more appropriately to non-code |
| 21:09.25 | MinuteElectron | Oh, okay. |
| 21:10.02 | MinuteElectron | Is there a difference between the BSD Documentation License and the FreeBSD one? |
| 21:10.25 | brlcad | yeah, it's basically a generalized form of the FreeBSD one |
| 21:10.50 | MinuteElectron | Do you have a link? |
| 21:11.03 | brlcad | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/legal/bdl.txt |
| 21:11.13 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 21:11.46 | brlcad | The copyright line it refers to isn't in that file, but is a simple two-line |
| 21:12.18 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:12.27 | MinuteElectron | and the authors of the content will hold copyright? |
| 21:13.23 | brlcad | example in use: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/librt/librt.3?view=markup |
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| 21:15.04 | brlcad | in the source code, we have a pretty strict convention of giving proper credit and attribution, but requiring assignment so the legalities are easier to manage/defend |
| 21:15.26 | brlcad | i'd be inclined to do the same for the site, but it's certainly not nearly an issue there |
| 21:16.41 | MinuteElectron | there? |
| 21:18.32 | brlcad | example of an "about site" page, http://slashdot.org/about.shtml and http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/credits/ |
| 21:18.47 | brlcad | there being "on the website" or "in the documentation" which are mildly interchangeable |
| 21:19.06 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:19.10 | brlcad | web is sort of a publication format |
| 21:19.20 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:19.28 | brlcad | again, not a big deal, I could probably be convinced either way if someone felt strongly |
| 21:19.43 | brlcad | the code is the one that has additional legal constraints |
| 21:20.13 | MinuteElectron | So this would be an alright copyright tagline "All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners."? |
| 21:20.29 | brlcad | plus by using the BDL, it really doesn't matter -- you can do pretty much anything with the docs, even sell them, just so long as you don't claim that you wrote them if you didn't :) |
| 21:20.46 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 21:21.02 | brlcad | sure, that's fine |
| 21:21.28 | brlcad | although that almost goes without saying :) |
| 21:21.38 | brlcad | they're owned by .. their owners ;) |
| 21:22.28 | MinuteElectron | true |
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| 21:31.52 | brlcad | ~MinuteElectron++ |
| 21:31.56 | brlcad | nice work on the quotes :) |
| 21:32.00 | thing0 | hey brlcad |
| 21:32.17 | brlcad | howdy thing0 |
| 21:32.34 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 21:32.40 | thing0 | how u been brlcad? |
| 21:32.41 | MinuteElectron | Still needs more populating. |
| 21:32.50 | brlcad | yeah it does |
| 21:33.02 | MinuteElectron | and when there is a long one it ruins everything |
| 21:33.05 | brlcad | thing0: pretty good, quite busy -- still recovering from being away at siggraph |
| 21:33.13 | thing0 | ahh siggraph |
| 21:33.15 | thing0 | how was it? |
| 21:33.41 | brlcad | very excellent |
| 21:33.46 | thing0 | nice |
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| 08:21.26 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I am nearly done on the website: just the sidebar to sort out. |
| 08:21.33 | MinuteElectron | Not sure what to do, have you any ideas. |
| 08:49.26 | brlcad | a few |
| 08:50.01 | brlcad | no login needed on the main/front page -- there will be just one dedicated login page |
| 08:50.43 | brlcad | the sidebar can have a login icon similar to haiku's or something else, but the whole form is a bit much |
| 08:52.04 | brlcad | i see the sidebar having more frequently changing data and quick access to important information |
| 08:53.13 | brlcad | some ideas include a downloads link, a direct link to the wiki, a direct bug-report link, and a running poll |
| 08:53.40 | MinuteElectron | Cool. |
| 08:54.51 | brlcad | frequently accessed docs, a picture/screenshot of the day are others (perhaps a random link into a matching Gallery2 image gallery) |
| 08:55.49 | MinuteElectron | ok |
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| 11:16.32 | MinuteElectron | I am having some difficulties brlcad - I cannot connect to your server from my home PC, but I can connect from someone elses server. |
| 11:17.12 | brlcad | ooh, you might have gotten yourself firewalled |
| 11:17.26 | brlcad | did you have several bad password attempts perhaps? |
| 11:17.48 | MinuteElectron | I changed my password a few minutes\hours ago. |
| 11:17.51 | brlcad | or lots of simultaneous connections |
| 11:17.55 | MinuteElectron | But nothing since then. |
| 11:17.56 | Laniakea | is it possible to include one .g file in another? |
| 11:18.15 | brlcad | Laniakea: yes, see the mged quick reference, files section -- dbconcat |
| 11:18.19 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: It is weird, the connection just dopped. |
| 11:18.28 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: send me your IP |
| 11:18.33 | MinuteElectron | 82.7.33.28 |
| 11:18.46 | Laniakea | brlcad: interesting |
| 11:18.53 | MinuteElectron | I was in the middle of typing an IRC message then the connection timed out. |
| 11:18.55 | Laniakea | brlcad: when will be the new brlcad homepage? |
| 11:19.17 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: hm, you're not blocked |
| 11:19.29 | MinuteElectron | I will go chat to the router manager. |
| 11:19.31 | brlcad | probably just a temporary routting issue at your |
| 11:19.41 | brlcad | local area, or your ISP, etc |
| 11:19.57 | MinuteElectron | maybe, but I have my suspicions. |
| 11:20.16 | brlcad | Laniakea: when it's done -- really hard to say -- have to begin populating the site next with a ton of info next |
| 11:20.46 | MinuteElectron | I guess, nothing chaned on the router. |
| 11:21.19 | Laniakea | what does -s and -p mean with dbconcat? |
| 11:23.10 | MinuteElectron | I find it odd that I cannot ping or view web pages on the server either. |
| 11:52.11 | brlcad | Laniakea: they indicate whether to append as a _suffix or a _prefix |
| 11:52.53 | brlcad | the default is a straight up prefixOLDNAME with no underscore |
| 11:52.53 | brlcad | the default is a straight up prefixOLDNAME with no underscoor no prefix if you don't specify one |
| 11:53.28 | brlcad | e.g. if you use the File->Import menu option, it'll prompt you, for example |
| 11:53.51 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: if it's a router, I'd expect that, though curiously I can ping your ip from .bz |
| 11:54.07 | Laniakea | brlcad: is this used commonly to establish hierarchy? |
| 11:54.08 | brlcad | which might indicate a different return route |
| 11:54.25 | brlcad | Laniakea: to establish hierarchy? .. nnno |
| 11:54.36 | brlcad | its used to pull in geometry usually from other files |
| 11:54.41 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: dw |
| 11:54.42 | brlcad | often used in conjunction with keep |
| 11:54.50 | Laniakea | what does keep do? |
| 11:55.07 | brlcad | keep extracts a portion of one .g file to its own file |
| 11:55.24 | brlcad | like you could keep a bolt from your model, and dbconcat it into another to import it |
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| 13:38.13 | smallfoot- | 7.10? when? |
| 13:46.39 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 13:48.10 | ``Erik | 7.10.0 was 2007/01/27, 7.10.2 was 2007/08/16 |
| 13:48.19 | ``Erik | or so |
| 13:49.26 | ``Erik | hm, mebbe 7.10.0 was 2007/4/8 |
| 13:52.39 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 13:53.32 | smallfoot- | win32 build too? |
| 13:54.16 | ``Erik | we don't release windows binaries, they're donated by someone who went and compiled them usually... but it SHOULD compile with msvc6, msvc7, cygwin and mingw32, and mebbe others |
| 13:54.30 | smallfoot- | BRL-CAD for Windows 7.8.0 April 13, 2006 |
| 13:54.35 | smallfoot- | it never comes new release! |
| 13:54.38 | smallfoot- | 1 year odl! EVEN MORE!! |
| 13:54.43 | smallfoot- | make new release |
| 13:54.46 | ``Erik | ... we release the code... not the binaries |
| 13:54.55 | ``Erik | none of the developers use windows |
| 13:55.07 | smallfoot- | release the binary too, not onyl code |
| 13:55.19 | smallfoot- | most people cant compile their own stuff, only nerds do that |
| 13:55.30 | ``Erik | hey, feel free to download cygwin and compile it, if you give us a zip, we'll post it :) |
| 13:55.41 | ``Erik | how can I make a windows binary if I don't have a windows machine? |
| 13:56.03 | ``Erik | and, uh, thanks for the insult O.o |
| 14:37.25 | PrezKennedy | haha... nerds |
| 14:43.08 | smallfoot- | lol |
| 14:43.08 | smallfoot- | ya |
| 14:43.12 | smallfoot- | normal people dont use compilers |
| 14:43.21 | MinuteElectron | STFU |
| 14:44.18 | MinuteElectron | Usually I don't take offense, but both are you are just being completely insulting in front of evryone in here (I myself use a compiler often). |
| 14:44.52 | smallfoot- | ya, and you never got laid |
| 14:44.57 | smallfoot- | and you got 2cm thick glasses |
| 14:45.02 | smallfoot- | you have all the starwars DVD collection |
| 14:45.08 | smallfoot- | and a Bobba Fett doll |
| 14:45.25 | smallfoot- | you are like the white Steve Urkel |
| 15:22.16 | ``Erik | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/276304 |
| 16:08.26 | ``Erik | what a little bitch O.o |
| 16:13.42 | MinuteElectron | indeed |
| 16:13.51 | MinuteElectron | too bad brlcad is the only operator for this channel. |
| 16:14.48 | MinuteElectron | I would vote to block him, but that probably wouldn't happen. |
| 16:14.55 | MinuteElectron | *ban |
| 16:19.41 | EugenesLair | smallfoot annoyed also on the #gaygeeks channel |
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| 17:33.27 | brlcad | hm |
| 17:35.08 | MinuteElectron | hmm? |
| 17:35.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+b *!smallfoo*@*] by brlcad | |
| 17:35.38 | brlcad | just a lil twerp |
| 17:36.15 | MinuteElectron | That is the ban on this channel. |
| 17:36.22 | MinuteElectron | *only |
| 17:36.33 | MinuteElectron | Thank you. |
| 17:37.18 | brlcad | hey, will of the residents have priority ;) |
| 17:37.41 | *** mode/#brlcad [+b MinuteElectron!*@*] by brlcad | |
| 17:37.46 | brlcad | oops! |
| 17:37.50 | *** mode/#brlcad [-b MinuteElectron!*@*] by brlcad | |
| 17:37.51 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:37.54 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 17:38.02 | *** mode/#brlcad [+oo MinuteElectron ``Erik] by brlcad | |
| 17:38.11 | MinuteElectron | Thanks. |
| 17:38.19 | *** join/#brlcad cad27 (n=7932c41b@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 17:38.25 | brlcad | just in case I got the mask wrong and he returns to being an annoyance |
| 17:38.53 | PrezKennedy | MinuteElectron, i was mocking him |
| 17:39.10 | MinuteElectron | Oh, ok. |
| 17:39.12 | MinuteElectron | Sorry. |
| 17:39.17 | MinuteElectron | My bad. |
| 17:40.30 | PrezKennedy | im installing cygwin right now so yeah... i don't have a lot of room to talk ;-) |
| 17:40.41 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 17:40.57 | MinuteElectron | I gotta run, going to grandparents. |
| 17:41.01 | MinuteElectron | Later all. |
| 17:41.02 | PrezKennedy | farewell! |
| 17:41.12 | brlcad | cya MinuteElectron |
| 17:42.53 | PrezKennedy | hey maybe i could do something useful and compile brlcad for windoze |
| 17:45.54 | brlcad | you could become the primary windows maintainer! |
| 17:46.14 | brlcad | kermit would love that heh |
| 17:46.38 | brlcad | at least bill would |
| 17:51.45 | PrezKennedy | haha |
| 17:52.49 | PrezKennedy | im at home in windows or linux, i just use windows because i have some hardware that i KNOW i wouldnt be able to get working in linux |
| 17:58.39 | ``Erik | damn, pedro got his computer stolen |
| 17:59.03 | ``Erik | w00t, I pwn! /mdop!!! |
| 18:04.18 | ``Erik | ewwwwwwww, my bit got sticky |
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| 19:21.27 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the C++ compiler to test for the TNT/JAMA header |
| 20:11.35 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 20:20.22 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: This was not the fix for OpenBSD. Without it, OBSD4.1 seems to work just fine. |
| 20:23.24 | PrezKennedy | compiling this in cygwin is going to take forever |
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| 07:07.01 | Beyond_The_Grave | Does anybody have this installed on ubuntu? |
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| 08:33.44 | MinuteElectron | Oh, |
| 08:33.50 | MinuteElectron | I was just about to tell him something. |
| 08:34.19 | MinuteElectron | PrezKennedy: How's it going? |
| 08:35.54 | MinuteElectron | cygwin is annoying - you can only have irssi for windows installed OR cygwin. |
| 08:35.58 | MinuteElectron | anyway, website |
| 09:04.13 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What do you think? http://my.brlcad.org/ |
| 10:14.53 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_LANG_PUSH, AC_LANG_POP for going into/out of C++ testing mode |
| 10:17.08 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: when the quote overlaps the search, search goes down instead of causing the quote to wrap.. |
| 10:17.37 | brlcad | also think it needs the bezel to match the style above |
| 10:18.14 | brlcad | maybe colored background too so that parallels, otherwise the bar is just kinda sitting there |
| 10:19.09 | MinuteElectron | bezel? |
| 10:23.52 | MinuteElectron | I don't understand what bezel means brlcad. |
| 10:28.06 | MinuteElectron | and which bar are you talking about? |
| 10:39.58 | MinuteElectron | The problem with the footer has been fixed. |
| 10:53.23 | brlcad | bezel is the curve that makes the search box blend with the bar |
| 10:53.35 | brlcad | there are two on the top bar (one above, one below) |
| 10:53.55 | MinuteElectron | I see, |
| 10:54.02 | MinuteElectron | I was going to do that, I will work on that now. |
| 10:54.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What about the parallels? |
| 10:54.33 | brlcad | having the footer match the header (i.e. something non-black) |
| 10:54.49 | brlcad | otherwise the footer is just kind of out of place |
| 10:54.52 | MinuteElectron | oh, ok. |
| 10:55.01 | MinuteElectron | green? |
| 10:55.21 | brlcad | i actually like it black, but it doesn't work well with a black content area, so one of the two needs to change :) |
| 10:55.36 | MinuteElectron | I will experiment. |
| 10:55.47 | brlcad | try palette colors |
| 10:56.00 | MinuteElectron | do you have a link for that? |
| 10:56.06 | brlcad | looking |
| 10:56.59 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/color_palette.png |
| 10:57.08 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 10:58.03 | Laniakea | hmm, looks like you are taking the design seriously |
| 10:58.08 | Laniakea | colours, fonts,... |
| 10:58.15 | Laniakea | highlights and shadows... |
| 10:58.34 | Laniakea | I like the colours. |
| 10:58.41 | brlcad | aim towards having a consistent style |
| 10:58.47 | MinuteElectron | ok |
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| 12:49.11 | PrezKennedy | crazy nocturnal IRC goers ;-) |
| 12:50.13 | ``Erik | hum |
| 12:50.24 | ``Erik | 4547 vgr's inside of parallels |
| 12:50.58 | PrezKennedy | for the Mac? |
| 12:52.36 | ``Erik | hrm? host is a mac, guest is obsd |
| 12:54.50 | Laniakea | ``Erik: now I should download the BRL-CAD CVS and try it on my obsd? |
| 13:26.13 | PrezKennedy | this is the largest collection of mac users ive ever seen! |
| 13:26.14 | PrezKennedy | :-P |
| 13:54.26 | ``Erik | Laniakea: it worked fine for me, I actually un-did what I thought may've been a fix... |
| 13:56.26 | ``Erik | this was on a just-updated 4.1 |
| 13:59.02 | Laniakea | ``Erik: so do I need to update from 4.0 to 4.1? |
| 13:59.50 | ``Erik | I d'no, I grabbed 41 *shrug* does it still fail for you on 40? |
| 14:05.14 | ``Erik | "velcro sport corset" |
| 14:20.52 | ``Erik | oi, hoolio |
| 15:37.15 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: readme moved with version bump |
| 15:49.52 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/Makefile.am: add DEPS line |
| 15:50.58 | ``Erik | oi, hoolio |
| 15:51.01 | ``Erik | woops |
| 15:53.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (Makefile.am dfft.c): coerce dfft to use bu_getopt instead of the big whileifelseifelseif construct |
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| 15:57.23 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: fix for "out of dir" builds |
| 16:00.58 | ``Erik | hummmmmm |
| 16:01.06 | ``Erik | fast eddies? or donnas? |
| 16:19.16 | PrezKennedy | oh man... i want Fast Eddies |
| 16:19.23 | PrezKennedy | What's Donnas? |
| 17:40.22 | ``Erik | PLACE ON POST |
| 17:40.26 | ``Erik | woops, caps lock |
| 17:40.34 | ``Erik | we went tot he bowling alley instead, beer good *grunt* :) |
| 17:40.58 | ``Erik | fast eddies is a lot better than donnas O.o but a lot further away |
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| 17:45.33 | Beyond_The_Grave | Does anybody have this installed on ubuntu? |
| 17:50.12 | ``Erik | not I... what's the issue? |
| 17:50.22 | ``Erik | (heh, kansas city, I was there a few weeks ago) |
| 18:01.13 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 18:02.34 | MinuteElectron | Oh how I hate incompatible software, |
| 18:03.04 | Beyond_The_Grave | Well, my problem is that I can't get it to run once everything has installed... which program actually runs it? |
| 18:03.30 | Beyond_The_Grave | Sorry for the wait |
| 18:05.41 | Beyond_The_Grave | It didn't make an icon on the menu to run the program... |
| 18:05.59 | MinuteElectron | heh - I don't think it is meant to. |
| 18:06.26 | MinuteElectron | I have never actually compiled it so I wouldn't know. |
| 18:06.53 | Beyond_The_Grave | Well, I was hoping to get help to figure that out... |
| 18:07.47 | Beyond_The_Grave | It's installed, but when I tried to click on the "mged" like the ubuntu forums said to do it didn't work... |
| 18:08.56 | PrezKennedy | try running mged in bash or something |
| 18:09.10 | Beyond_The_Grave | Should I have stuck with a lower version, cause I'm using the 7.10.2, and I don't know if that's a beta or not? |
| 18:09.53 | Beyond_The_Grave | It's says the command doesn't exist |
| 18:10.42 | Beyond_The_Grave | Which one is the one to run brl-cad? |
| 18:11.00 | Beyond_The_Grave | And what's up with having to make a path? |
| 18:11.29 | ``Erik | that's a real release |
| 18:11.30 | ``Erik | update your path |
| 18:11.36 | ``Erik | export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin |
| 18:11.36 | Beyond_The_Grave | How? |
| 18:11.50 | ``Erik | then you should be able to run 'mged' |
| 18:12.10 | MinuteElectron | try from the bin folder of brlcad typing "./mged" |
| 18:12.23 | Beyond_The_Grave | Is that brl-cad, or is that one tool? |
| 18:12.28 | ``Erik | but "." might not be int he path, so the subtools (like rt) might not work |
| 18:12.47 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD is over 400 'tools'... mged is the fancy gui frontend/modeller |
| 18:12.49 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 18:12.51 | ``Erik | fancy, heh |
| 18:13.01 | PrezKennedy | fancy as a freight train! |
| 18:13.12 | Beyond_The_Grave | So from mged can you use all the other tools? |
| 18:15.06 | brlcad | not all of them, but several of the more frequently used tools |
| 18:15.37 | Beyond_The_Grave | OK |
| 18:16.19 | brlcad | Beyond_The_Grave: there should also be an mged.sh script or something, I think that's what one of the ubuntu guys did that made the deb |
| 18:16.30 | brlcad | that might be what you can "just click" |
| 18:17.03 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Do you have a few moments? |
| 18:17.07 | brlcad | when it installs, it _usually_ is installed into /usr/brlcad by default given the size and number of apps that are actually installed |
| 18:17.35 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: haha |
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| 18:18.21 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: of course, go ahea |
| 18:18.24 | brlcad | d |
| 18:18.29 | MinuteElectron | I have been experimenting with different color combinations. |
| 18:18.38 | MinuteElectron | Non of them work as a block of color. |
| 18:18.47 | brlcad | hmm |
| 18:18.52 | brlcad | because of the bar? |
| 18:19.26 | brlcad | i'd only expect the hilights or the shadows to even be feasible, and even then probably would still need to change the bar's color maybe .. "maybe" |
| 18:19.43 | MinuteElectron | No, when the page is really short the footer takes up most of the page thus meaning the color is very distracting. |
| 18:20.04 | brlcad | i see that :) |
| 18:20.14 | MinuteElectron | It might be possible to make the footer the same size regardless. |
| 18:20.26 | MinuteElectron | s/might be/is |
| 18:20.27 | brlcad | hm |
| 18:20.41 | MinuteElectron | but that would cause extra whitespace (actually blackspace) |
| 18:21.17 | brlcad | yeah, what about fixing the footer to the bottom of the window, absolute coords from base |
| 18:21.28 | MinuteElectron | I can do that, one moment. |
| 18:22.54 | MinuteElectron | Which web browser are you using. |
| 18:23.19 | MinuteElectron | It works as desired in Firefox, but not Opera - I will debug once a design is finalised. |
| 18:23.48 | MinuteElectron | The trouble is when you scroll it stays in the same place. |
| 18:24.11 | MinuteElectron | It doesn't go to the very bottom, only the bottom of the window. |
| 18:24.16 | MinuteElectron | Let me try something. |
| 18:24.32 | ``Erik | hehehe http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/If-Only-Id-Been-More-Explicit.aspx |
| 18:29.28 | MinuteElectron | It works alright now, but the background color is gone. |
| 18:29.38 | MinuteElectron | I will diagnose once I have had dinner. |
| 18:48.43 | MinuteElectron | Part in #defocus - freenode just broke 40k connected users record. |
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| 18:54.58 | Beyond_The_Grave | How do you get rid of BRL? |
| 18:58.41 | Beyond_The_Grave | How do you get rid of BRL? |
| 18:59.31 | *** part/#brlcad Beyond_The_Grave (n=greg@adsl-66-136-149-90.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) | |
| 18:59.42 | ``Erik | um |
| 18:59.47 | ``Erik | decrement the first letter by one? |
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| 19:25.50 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Have you just done something to the site? |
| 19:27.46 | MinuteElectron | because it is broekn due to ldap integration errors |
| 19:50.35 | PrezKennedy | i love Worse Than Failure :-) |
| 19:51.25 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
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| 20:43.58 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): DEPS updates |
| 21:01.38 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): DEPS updates |
| 21:31.13 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/image.c): make the RGB data buffers unsigned |
| 21:36.36 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: no, I've not done anything |
| 21:36.42 | brlcad | I went from lunch to meetings most of the day |
| 21:36.49 | ``Erik | ew |
| 21:36.55 | brlcad | informal |
| 21:37.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Oh, ok. |
| 21:37.16 | MinuteElectron | Weird. |
| 21:37.21 | MinuteElectron | Anyway. |
| 21:37.33 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can you take a look at the site, have I chosen the right color? |
| 21:37.50 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: explicitely cast to keep osX happy |
| 21:40.19 | ``Erik | brlcad, have you looked at the 74 'off by one' pixels in m35? |
| 21:41.15 | ``Erik | note to self; don't resize pix-fb windows. O.o |
| 21:48.54 | brlcad | ``Erik: at one point or another, yes |
| 21:49.03 | brlcad | all floating point fuzz issues |
| 21:49.54 | brlcad | there used to be two others that had off-by-one consistently, but I believe I just recently fixed them with the tolerance tweaks I added |
| 21:54.00 | ``Erik | the m35 was the only in the benchmark suite that gave me off by 1's, and most of them were glancing hits on toriii |
| 21:54.05 | ``Erik | s/i$// |
| 21:54.23 | brlcad | yeah, that's new |
| 21:54.27 | brlcad | like as of last week iirc |
| 21:55.06 | ``Erik | ok, mebbe I'll look at it tomorrow |
| 21:56.58 | brlcad | i might be confusing plats too as it's different for plats |
| 21:57.09 | brlcad | bsd matches the vgr ref pretty close because it was running a bsd |
| 21:57.28 | ``Erik | I'm building on the mac to see if the diffs are there, I have a pixdiff from an amd64 fbsd box if you want |
| 21:57.50 | ``Erik | I think you know the one, it's in /tmp if you're curious *shrug* |
| 21:58.50 | brlcad | iirc, the grazings on m35 are all torus-related |
| 21:59.10 | brlcad | nah, I've seen it before |
| 21:59.27 | brlcad | just pixdiff m35.pix ../pix/m35.pix | pix-fb -F/dev/Xl |
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| 04:25.17 | yukonbob | . |
| 04:44.48 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 04:52.15 | brlcad | .. |
| 04:53.38 | brlcad | and they responded.. I thought we'd lost touch! |
| 05:50.35 | PrezKennedy | the luck of the Internets |
| 05:54.29 | PrezKennedy | hey brlcad, according to slashdot Apple is selling more than 1 in 6 laptops bought these days |
| 05:55.32 | PrezKennedy | course when the alternative is Vista, even expensive fruit becomes a viabe option ;-) |
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| 08:25.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: If you get a moment please take a look at the website. |
| 13:34.44 | brlcad | much better, almost there |
| 13:34.49 | brlcad | it doesn't expand very far |
| 13:35.49 | brlcad | and I get a scrollbar the height of the base that will let me scroll down into black |
| 13:36.36 | MinuteElectron | yeah it all got fscked |
| 13:36.41 | MinuteElectron | I have to redesign it. |
| 13:36.50 | MinuteElectron | the footer |
| 13:36.51 | MinuteElectron | slightly |
| 13:36.58 | MinuteElectron | to make it work how it should do |
| 13:41.11 | ``Erik | hmmm |
| 13:41.22 | ``Erik | brlcad, gonna be in at 10:30? |
| 14:15.51 | brlcad | yes |
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| 17:48.49 | MinuteElectron | :( |
| 17:48.54 | MinuteElectron | .w 13 |
| 18:09.51 | ``Erik | ok |
| 18:16.25 | MinuteElectron | sorry - I type to fast |
| 18:25.49 | ``Erik | typing too fast is not the issue, typing too sloppily is :D |
| 18:26.16 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/orle-fb.1: document the -F option. Fixes PR#1774679 |
| 18:28.56 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/orle-fb.c: this is orle-fb, not rle-fb. |
| 18:29.00 | MinuteElectron | sorry |
| 18:31.44 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-rle.1: change rle-fb to fb-rle in synopsis. PR#1775562 |
| 18:34.05 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/imod.c: fix program name in usage string. PR#1775598 |
| 18:36.22 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/plstat.c: program name is plstat, not pldebug (in usage and perror output). PR#1776683 |
| 18:42.07 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtedge.1: rtedge may have produced "plot" files in the past, but spits out pix images these days. PR#1779521 |
| 18:43.43 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mk/mk_wire.1: this is mk_wire, not mk_handle. PR#1775606 |
| 19:07.11 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: Allow intel macs to see more than 2 from bu_avail_cpus().. PR#1784346 |
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| 19:26.51 | ``Erik | lets see how much my new footstool tromps my 'work' machine for vgr's... the 'work machine' is sitting at 11128... |
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| 20:58.13 | ``Erik | hmmmmm |
| 20:58.33 | ``Erik | 27633, but world pood itself |
| 20:58.34 | ``Erik | pixcmp pixels: 101034 matching, 0 off by 1, 1878 off by many |
| 21:06.42 | brlcad | wow |
| 21:07.05 | brlcad | now that's halfway to a new record |
| 21:08.05 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Okay, I think the footer is finished. |
| 21:08.05 | brlcad | eek, heh |
| 21:08.05 | MinuteElectron | This is the only color that works. |
| 21:08.06 | MinuteElectron | The others look ugly in the footer. |
| 21:08.18 | ``Erik | eck, and those don't? O.o *duck* |
| 21:08.52 | MinuteElectron | ? |
| 21:09.09 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Do you like it? |
| 21:09.09 | ``Erik | mebbe I have no color sense :) the peach and green don't seem to fit so well to me |
| 21:10.49 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/tmp/screenie.png |
| 21:11.13 | MinuteElectron | Oh for fuck sake. |
| 21:11.19 | MinuteElectron | ARGH |
| 21:11.26 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:11.32 | ``Erik | firefox seems to render ok |
| 21:11.38 | MinuteElectron | It works in Firefox. |
| 21:11.53 | MinuteElectron | It works well in lynx |
| 21:12.17 | ``Erik | seamonkey? |
| 21:12.23 | MinuteElectron | seamonkey==firefox |
| 21:12.33 | ``Erik | ummmm |
| 21:12.37 | MinuteElectron | same rendering engine |
| 21:12.37 | ``Erik | the smalltalk html renderer. |
| 21:12.43 | ``Erik | in, uh, squeak |
| 21:12.43 | MinuteElectron | I don't know |
| 21:12.44 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:13.03 | ``Erik | don't push me, I'll find some esoteric thing somewhere that maybe 2 people have heard of |
| 21:13.03 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:13.15 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:13.37 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What version of Safari do you use? |
| 21:13.59 | poolio | What an ugly website you guys have ;) |
| 21:14.00 | brlcad | seems to be 2.0.4 |
| 21:14.22 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Have you any plans to upgrading to 3.0 - I can't test it 2.0 since I don't have a Mac. |
| 21:14.40 | brlcad | does it work in 3.0? |
| 21:14.44 | MinuteElectron | Nearly. |
| 21:15.27 | MinuteElectron | It works in Safari 3 now. |
| 21:15.49 | ``Erik | it rendered ok for me in safari 2.0.4 just now |
| 21:16.08 | MinuteElectron | Heh, can you try again brlcad? |
| 21:16.17 | MinuteElectron | It fails bad in Opera though. |
| 21:16.25 | MinuteElectron | It looks in Opera like it looks in Safari 2. |
| 21:16.30 | brlcad | still looks the same |
| 21:16.53 | brlcad | there we go |
| 21:16.57 | MinuteElectron | Works in Opera now without me changing anything. |
| 21:17.03 | brlcad | other than scrolling |
| 21:17.10 | MinuteElectron | This is all very weird. |
| 21:17.17 | MinuteElectron | I see the scrolling. |
| 21:17.26 | brlcad | now it's at the bottom, but it's still got the scrolling problem from before |
| 21:20.51 | MinuteElectron | I am trying to find the CSS rules. |
| 21:23.00 | MinuteElectron | Okay. |
| 21:23.03 | MinuteElectron | Got it. |
| 21:23.21 | brlcad | wooohoo |
| 21:23.24 | brlcad | so you did :) |
| 21:23.38 | MinuteElectron | But it loks ugly on long pages now. |
| 21:23.50 | MinuteElectron | There was padding near the bottom to make it look nicer on long pages. |
| 21:23.56 | MinuteElectron | Let me see if I can replace it. |
| 21:24.36 | brlcad | be back in a bit |
| 21:24.47 | brlcad | nice progress |
| 21:24.47 | MinuteElectron | bye |
| 21:24.52 | MinuteElectron | thanks |
| 21:25.21 | brlcad | colors still need tweaking, and I should populate some real content in to see how it actually looks/works |
| 21:25.27 | MinuteElectron | colors? |
| 21:25.28 | MinuteElectron | huh? |
| 21:26.34 | brlcad | the baby blue footer is a bit quirky |
| 21:26.45 | MinuteElectron | :( :D |
| 21:26.51 | MinuteElectron | quirky? |
| 21:27.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: |
| 21:27.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: Remove unnecessary __ppc__ test (use __APPLE__ to do both PPC and Intel). |
| 21:27.04 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: Get the number of available CPU's instead of present CPU's on a Mac. |
| 21:27.05 | brlcad | grabs too much attention for a footer at the moment |
| 21:27.15 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:27.17 | brlcad | maybe with the content area filled it won't be so bac |
| 21:27.25 | MinuteElectron | maybe |
| 21:27.33 | MinuteElectron | it doens't |
| 21:27.35 | brlcad | or maybe if a colored content area is used |
| 21:27.39 | MinuteElectron | take a look at the admin panel |
| 21:27.52 | MinuteElectron | That is possible, I might experiment. |
| 21:28.16 | brlcad | alright, back in a bit |
| 21:28.19 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 21:28.42 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: Mac CPU detection stuff |
| 21:29.36 | ``Erik | aaaaaaaand home time :D |
| 21:32.36 | MinuteElectron | Speaking of food I need a drink to cure my headache. |
| 21:32.41 | MinuteElectron | And food. |
| 21:32.47 | MinuteElectron | me hungry... |
| 21:58.35 | MinuteElectron | I'm sorry, the footer dies in Internet Explorer. |
| 22:33.10 | MinuteElectron | Hahaha it was caching. |
| 22:42.10 | ``Erik | ahhhh home at last |
| 22:42.43 | MinuteElectron | it takes you over an hour to get home? |
| 22:46.55 | ``Erik | usually about 45 minutes |
| 22:47.22 | ``Erik | there was an accident (some soccer mom in a minivan decided to swerve across a turn lane and into oncoming traffic...) which slowed things up |
| 22:47.32 | ``Erik | and I stopped at the atm and package store on the way *shrug* :) |
| 22:49.30 | MinuteElectron | kl |
| 22:55.43 | MinuteElectron | Hahahaha suck this IE. |
| 23:02.37 | yukonbob | MinuteElectron: what's the url for your work? |
| 23:03.11 | MinuteElectron | http://my.brlcad.org/ |
| 23:15.04 | MinuteElectron | It isn't finished yet. |
| 23:15.26 | MinuteElectron | The footer is completely finished except for maybe a change in colors. |
| 23:16.26 | MinuteElectron | The header is complete except the items changing color when they are open. |
| 23:16.32 | MinuteElectron | And I need to do the sidebar. |
| 23:16.41 | MinuteElectron | After that I change the color scheme. |
| 23:26.46 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:27.34 | PrezKennedy | i can say i was the first to see it in IE :-P |
| 23:34.17 | MinuteElectron | ? |
| 23:35.57 | MinuteElectron | Does it look that bad? |
| 23:36.06 | MinuteElectron | I thought I ironed out all the IE bugs. |
| 23:40.56 | MinuteElectron | I have to sleep. |
| 23:40.59 | MinuteElectron | Goodnight. |
| 00:40.20 | PrezKennedy | its good |
| 04:25.16 | brlcad | not sure it's worth it to do anything about it, but maybe :) |
| 04:35.26 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753756.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:17.38 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: check for vim before looking for vi, add comments on order preference, and don't invoke xterm if we're IF_TK. this fixes sf feature request 1219084 (default editor vim instead of vi suggested) |
| 05:20.54 | yukonbob | brlcad: you in? |
| 05:21.42 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Mged now tests for vim before vi for text editing, this implements sf feature request 1219084 (default editor vim instead of vi suggested) |
| 05:28.25 | yukonbob | ^--- bad idea, brlcad :P |
| 05:29.33 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: reword for consistency |
| 05:29.38 | brlcad | what's up? |
| 05:30.18 | yukonbob | hey :) |
| 05:30.25 | brlcad | there's a list of editors it checks in order, you can override to anything (and should if you really want anything other than jove or ed) |
| 05:31.08 | yukonbob | shouldn't it just use "vi" as standard (like most *nix tools), if it can't find EDITOR environment variable? |
| 05:31.37 | yukonbob | (or perhaps check the OS, and use notepad for Windows, [whatever] for MacOS, and vi for other *nix) |
| 05:31.56 | brlcad | that's what it effectively does, per os |
| 05:32.20 | brlcad | and 'ed' is the actual default if you go back far enough |
| 05:32.33 | yukonbob | EDITOR is the "correct" way, imo. If somebody wants to use vim, nvi, elvis, joe, nano, pico, emacs, xemacs, gedit, gvim, [whatever], setup EDITOR |
| 05:32.51 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 05:32.57 | brlcad | exactly, it respects editor |
| 05:32.59 | yukonbob | the one true editor, ed :) |
| 05:33.10 | yukonbob | so why make allowances for vim? |
| 05:33.32 | brlcad | because there were (necessarily) already allowances for other platforms |
| 05:33.55 | yukonbob | slippery slope... /me disagrees, but... |
| 05:34.09 | yukonbob | anyway, before I saw those commits, I had another q: :) |
| 05:34.17 | yukonbob | see: http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png |
| 05:35.58 | brlcad | the software is molded by its users too .. he has bothered to make several substantial contributions, so it's a minor deal to have it check |
| 05:36.55 | brlcad | not so slippery since it's really "up to the app" if EDITOR isn't set, so it could just as well make them tap out in morse code |
| 05:37.00 | yukonbob | but the answer to his question is not recompiling brlcad, it's "set EDITOR=vim" ... |
| 05:37.20 | brlcad | btw, the default before all of this really was 'ed' |
| 05:37.33 | brlcad | (in brl-cad) |
| 05:37.37 | yukonbob | heh -- I guess, considering the age ;) |
| 05:38.48 | brlcad | another contentious thing it does now is that it tries non-modal editors before the modal ones too, just think of the editor flame wars! |
| 05:39.29 | brlcad | anyways, I digress.. what's the question :) |
| 05:39.59 | yukonbob | gah --- strip that stuff out ;) -- the users environment belongs in environment variables.. I use xemacs, and that's what I do -- and I'd never send a bug report to get xemacs into the list of editors to check for... |
| 05:40.08 | yukonbob | do you see the pic in that link? |
| 05:40.14 | brlcad | yep |
| 05:40.27 | yukonbob | OK -- that's a 32-hole 3x bicycle wheel... |
| 05:40.45 | brlcad | if you say so :) |
| 05:40.47 | yukonbob | the spokes are composite objects, but the long part is obviously just a cylinder |
| 05:41.19 | brlcad | nice model |
| 05:41.46 | yukonbob | 32-hole == 16 holes per side of the hub, and 3x is read as "3 cross", because if you look carefully at any spoke, you'll see on it's tangental exit from the hub hole to the rim hole, it crosses 3 other spokes... |
| 05:41.50 | yukonbob | thx :) |
| 05:42.09 | brlcad | reminds me of http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=25099 but with better spokes |
| 05:43.30 | yukonbob | I was wondering: is it academic to "fix" the collision of the spokes at their crosses? In a real-world build, the spokes bend a bit on their path from the hub to the wheel, going over or under spokes they cross... now there's a "wire" element (experimental?) that does this... would it be applicable in this case? |
| 05:46.09 | brlcad | not sure what you're referring to by "wire" but there is a pipe primitive that might be ideal as it can be fed through arbitrary paths |
| 05:46.15 | yukonbob | the rim in the sourceforge screenshot is also not accurate -- typically spoke holes are offset to the side the spokes are coming from (ie: not right down the center of the rim, but alternate slightly right, slightly left). |
| 05:46.40 | yukonbob | ah -- pipe. that sounds right |
| 05:46.44 | brlcad | to 'fix' the collision would probably be wrong, they're either connected material or they're not |
| 05:47.15 | brlcad | if they're not, they should account for it, otherwise various analysis methods would readily fail (e.g. FEA) |
| 05:47.36 | brlcad | pipe is covered in the "principles of effective modeling" iirc |
| 05:47.57 | brlcad | hmm |
| 05:48.21 | yukonbob | ok -- the same "issue" I'm having (in my head) with the spokes can be imagined as such: |
| 05:48.53 | yukonbob | a box, with a string joining kitty-corners, and another string on the same plane joining the other corners. |
| 05:49.00 | brlcad | hm, mine are perfectly in the center :) |
| 05:49.10 | brlcad | that's not mine in the pic, but similar tire |
| 05:49.35 | yukonbob | ah -- mine aren't... high-end or not? |
| 05:50.23 | yukonbob | anyway, back to the spokes :) |
| 05:50.27 | brlcad | ahh, these are moderately high end road tires |
| 05:50.37 | brlcad | probably road vs off-road |
| 05:51.15 | yukonbob | do you see how the spokes would behave in the physical world? |
| 05:51.59 | brlcad | yes, those even with your string example, they just come really close -- tangent even, and you could model that if you want |
| 05:52.33 | yukonbob | the spokes really are woven though... in a real 3x build, it'd be over 2, under 1, and to the rim. |
| 05:52.51 | yukonbob | so they "brace" against ea. other |
| 05:53.00 | brlcad | there's a ever so slight bend that is basically the sine angle |
| 05:53.25 | brlcad | sure, they touch, have a tension against them |
| 05:53.40 | brlcad | but there is a find bend there too |
| 05:54.03 | brlcad | about half the radius.. so it'sbarely imperceptible for such a tiny wire |
| 05:54.31 | yukonbob | right --- so pipe would be suitable better primitive? |
| 05:55.13 | brlcad | probably, though it's still going to be tricky if you want to get the math really accurate, you're going to have to pull out some trig, compute some angles |
| 05:55.25 | yukonbob | or would there be some other "fudge" method, or ignore it? (I guess it'd really depend on the intended use, but I'm being academic to try to learn here ;) |
| 05:55.34 | brlcad | pipe are described as sequences of straight sections and bends |
| 05:55.54 | brlcad | you could ignore it, depends what purpose you're modeling for |
| 05:56.34 | yukonbob | right -- if it's just a pretty picture, what I've got will do... but I'm not averse to learning skills, esp. if it's more "correct" and might serve me in the future... |
| 05:57.22 | brlcad | if I were modeling it, I'd probably pick a pipe, model half the distance to the "touch point" as a straight section, then a big bend that has a bend radius just half the thickness radius that takes it past the point of intersection |
| 05:57.45 | brlcad | do that for all of the spokes and you should end up with spokes that perfectly touch tangent in the middle of that bend |
| 05:58.51 | yukonbob | right on ... I'll give it a go :) |
| 05:58.54 | brlcad | pipes are really tricky to grasp at first, but probably one of brl-cad's most powerful primitives (and generally better than most commercial cad system piping tools) |
| 05:59.19 | yukonbob | well, I know where to come when I have issues... |
| 05:59.31 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:59.35 | yukonbob | when I'm done, I'll render a picture for the new website. |
| 05:59.47 | yukonbob | we need a user gallery |
| 05:59.57 | brlcad | it's already stbbed out |
| 06:00.12 | brlcad | i.e., planned :) |
| 06:00.29 | brlcad | part of the new site that's coming together bit by bit |
| 06:00.32 | yukonbob | nice |
| 06:01.18 | yukonbob | hey, have you already seen "Spirited Away" and "Princess Mononoke"? |
| 06:01.29 | brlcad | i've seen spirited away |
| 06:01.37 | brlcad | don't recal if i've seen pm |
| 06:01.47 | yukonbob | you might like like PM, then |
| 06:02.03 | brlcad | tend to like them kinda dark and techy though |
| 06:02.12 | yukonbob | ah... |
| 06:02.14 | brlcad | GITM was my cup of tea |
| 06:02.49 | brlcad | i've *still* not seen it yet |
| 06:02.57 | yukonbob | awesome animation |
| 06:03.08 | yukonbob | have you seen Vampire Hunter D? |
| 06:03.26 | brlcad | yeah, I drooled over all the previous I saw .. and they were at the siggraph electronic theater last year iirc |
| 06:03.34 | brlcad | nope |
| 06:04.40 | yukonbob | there's stuff that looks photo-realistic, but animated or processed, so it's kind of tough to tell _what_ it is, but it's a great effect... |
| 06:06.12 | brlcad | for vampire? |
| 06:06.44 | yukonbob | both -- they have the same thing... in Vampire, it's especially noticeable in a subway scene... and in GITS, in a corner store |
| 06:07.48 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 06:10.55 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:11.13 | brlcad | they're in there because the alternative (which is what we had) was too much of a support burden |
| 06:11.39 | brlcad | a vast majority seemingly no nothing about EDITOR |
| 06:11.44 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:11.51 | brlcad | i know, but it's true |
| 06:11.56 | brlcad | i'd rather not set anything |
| 06:12.14 | brlcad | but then I invariably end up answering that exact question about once a month |
| 06:12.38 | yukonbob | we need an FAQ section that's maintained in the site too. |
| 06:12.44 | brlcad | i'm a bit of a cheerleader for things "just working" by default, so if that's what it takes, so be it :) |
| 06:12.46 | yukonbob | MinuteElectron ^^^ |
| 06:13.38 | yukonbob | I'll be the advocate for "Good Form" then, and take you to task where warranted :) |
| 06:13.48 | yukonbob | anyway -- happy coding, chat soon brlcad :) |
| 06:19.47 | brlcad | :) cya |
| 07:06.30 | MinuteElectron | yes? |
| 07:06.38 | MinuteElectron | I wasn't here, I will read. |
| 07:06.46 | MinuteElectron | Oh, FAQ |
| 07:07.42 | MinuteElectron | It can go in the Documentation section. |
| 07:07.45 | MinuteElectron | Or support. |
| 07:07.49 | MinuteElectron | *shrug& |
| 07:08.13 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Yeah transparency pngs. |
| 07:08.16 | MinuteElectron | THey suck. |
| 07:08.33 | MinuteElectron | I have to work out how to fix it, there is some javascript hacks. |
| 07:08.40 | MinuteElectron | But not sure where to get them from. |
| 07:33.02 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 07:40.49 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you busy, it would be nice to discuss colors. |
| 07:41.31 | yukonbob | ciao MinuteElectron :) |
| 07:41.36 | MinuteElectron | night |
| 07:50.24 | MinuteElectron | This si why I gave up with pngfix last time - it doesn't work. |
| 09:08.17 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-019-090.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 10:46.02 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875C02.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 13:11.35 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart) | |
| 13:31.17 | kwizart | hello! I have a tk85 missdetection at configure whereas running the conf.c return 0 from my system... |
| 13:31.36 | kwizart | at configure, it show: |
| 13:31.36 | kwizart | checking for Tk library functionality... no |
| 13:32.04 | kwizart | config.log returns: Tk_Init returned error |
| 13:32.23 | kwizart | whereas using http://pastebin.ca/675727 |
| 13:33.05 | kwizart | from a terminal with gcc gcc -I/usr/include -ltcl8.5 -ltk8.5 test.c |
| 13:33.12 | kwizart | ./a.out |
| 13:33.19 | kwizart | echo $? |
| 13:33.24 | kwizart | this return 0 ! |
| 13:51.09 | brlcad | kwizart: that test should now be changed/fixed in CVS head |
| 13:51.32 | brlcad | basically, Tk_Init is failing because it cannot attach to the X11 server |
| 13:52.16 | kwizart | nice i will have a look, (might be configure.ac right ?) |
| 13:52.16 | brlcad | probably because of DISPLAY being set or unset, usually -- so you can either manually disable the test, or use the latest sources and see if that fixes the problem for you |
| 13:52.30 | brlcad | the test is defined in configure.ac |
| 13:53.39 | brlcad | search on "Tk_Init returned error" to disable it (just have it return 0) or you can update the test to the same one on head which doesn't require display to be set |
| 13:53.47 | brlcad | or set your display before running configure :) |
| 13:56.39 | kwizart | brlcad, yes it is building with return 0 .. |
| 14:01.39 | kwizart | nice! i'm at the install step ! there will be a fedora build ! |
| 14:01.44 | brlcad | :) |
| 14:01.48 | kwizart | probably ! |
| 14:01.55 | brlcad | if you make an RPM, send it my way and I'll post it up ;) |
| 14:03.02 | kwizart | nice! but fow now i need to figure out how to have tcl85/tk85 build staticaly unless you can add also tcl85 and tk85 shared... |
| 14:06.18 | kwizart | arf, there is rpaths... |
| 14:06.54 | kwizart | ERROR 0002: file '/usr/bin/isst_slave' contains an invalid rpath '/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtienet/.libs' in [/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtienet/.libs:/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtie/.libs] |
| 14:07.12 | kwizart | i can need to disable them... |
| 14:22.24 | brlcad | eep, yeah, disable adrt |
| 14:22.28 | brlcad | --disable-adrt |
| 14:23.04 | brlcad | you can get tcl/tk to build static by adding --disable-shared to their configure args (near the end of configure.ac) |
| 14:23.28 | brlcad | look for ac_configure_args |
| 14:23.40 | brlcad | though I'd question why you want them static |
| 14:27.29 | kwizart | tcl85 and tk85 are not into fedora yet... so i'm using tcl85-devel from another repository... |
| 14:27.54 | kwizart | using static version will make them more portable as i expect... |
| 14:28.51 | kwizart | or i can submit tcl85/tk85 to fedora so they can be ship within (in parallele with tcl/tk 8.4) |
| 14:38.31 | brlcad | yeah, final isn't out yet so they'd probably not be too interested just yet |
| 15:04.38 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 15:13.39 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ | |
| 15:16.42 | brlcad | minute: I believe I fixed the footer alignment issue, it now wraps cleanly and keeps the search up top |
| 15:17.14 | brlcad | had to put the search box after the quote so it could float right |
| 15:17.58 | poolio | Website is cool, but there's something about the tan/cyan color scheme that doesn't look quite right |
| 15:48.40 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:51.49 | ``Erik | vim might be in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /opt/local/bin, /opt/bin, /sw/bin, ... gonna search all the various possible paths? (same with emacs)... better to have a faq entry imho :) |
| 16:07.09 | kwizart | i have this error when i have --disable-shared and --enable-static (whereas the contrary seems to work) |
| 16:07.09 | kwizart | http://pastebin.ca/675881 |
| 16:21.26 | kwizart | well no, using mock chrooted buildsys it fails with: |
| 16:21.26 | kwizart | *** buffer overflow detected ***: /builddir/build/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh terminated |
| 16:22.08 | kwizart | whereas it seems to work using rpmbuild...on non-chrooted system... |
| 16:22.20 | kwizart | maybe some missing BuildRequires or alse... |
| 16:22.21 | kwizart | else |
| 16:32.26 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dbconcat hangs on empty tree nodes |
| 16:43.50 | *** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p548749A7.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:53.29 | *** join/#brlcad FireBird2003 (n=FireBird@p549CCBA3.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:53.33 | FireBird2003 | hi |
| 16:53.42 | kwizart | the problem i have seems related to # --datadir=%{_datadir}/%{name} \ |
| 16:53.59 | kwizart | (backtrace) |
| 16:54.34 | kwizart | testing... |
| 16:55.38 | FireBird2003 | I try to compile the newest src-tarball and got an error in dm_xvars.h saying that a specifier-qualifier list is expected in line 55 XVisualinfo * |
| 16:56.57 | FireBird2003 | Im using Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 17:00.28 | FireBird2003 | any ideas? |
| 17:02.04 | ``Erik | broken X? do you have all the X developer packages installed? |
| 17:02.50 | FireBird2003 | hm, I marked the #ifdef out and got this file compiled |
| 17:03.03 | FireBird2003 | so, it might be the config? |
| 17:03.27 | ``Erik | look in, um, include/brlcad_config.h for HAVE_X11_XLIB_H |
| 17:03.36 | ``Erik | should be defined to '1' |
| 17:03.40 | FireBird2003 | ok |
| 17:04.00 | ``Erik | if it's #undef, then you either don't have the X headers or the config script is broken |
| 17:05.14 | FireBird2003 | 2nd |
| 17:05.20 | FireBird2003 | I have the header |
| 17:05.48 | ``Erik | Xlib.h ? |
| 17:05.55 | ``Erik | or just X.h ? |
| 17:06.33 | FireBird2003 | Xlib.h |
| 17:07.18 | ``Erik | hum, when you ran ./configure, did the end report "X11 support ....: yes" ? |
| 17:07.31 | FireBird2003 | I'll try again |
| 17:07.53 | ``Erik | you can look in config.log |
| 17:08.52 | FireBird2003 | too late... |
| 17:09.26 | FireBird2003 | X11 support is yes |
| 17:09.32 | ``Erik | <-- likes to do "./configure --enable-optimized 2>&1 | tee configure.out" to refer back to those |
| 17:09.54 | ``Erik | ok, check your include/brlcad_config.h file again? HAVE_X11_XLIB_H is still |
| 17:09.55 | ``Erik | ... |
| 17:10.32 | *** join/#brlcad FireBird2003 (n=FireBird@p549CCBA3.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 17:10.47 | FireBird2003 | sry, accidently closed xchar |
| 17:10.50 | FireBird2003 | -r+t |
| 17:11.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:11.43 | FireBird2003 | the config-script is broken |
| 17:11.57 | ``Erik | is HAVE_X11_XLIB_H still an #undef in include/brlcad_config.h ? |
| 17:12.02 | FireBird2003 | it says X11 to yes |
| 17:12.04 | FireBird2003 | yes |
| 17:12.24 | FireBird2003 | i changed it to a #define |
| 17:12.35 | FireBird2003 | and started compiling again |
| 17:12.46 | ``Erik | where is your Xlib.h ? |
| 17:12.56 | FireBird2003 | /usr/include/X11 |
| 17:13.10 | ``Erik | huh, that's an odd place to put X headers |
| 17:13.24 | FireBird2003 | this is the Ubuntu way |
| 17:13.28 | FireBird2003 | why odd? |
| 17:14.02 | FireBird2003 | ahh, normaly should be /usr/X11/include, isn't it? |
| 17:14.21 | ``Erik | /usr/X11R6/include/X11 |
| 17:14.42 | FireBird2003 | ok |
| 17:14.53 | ``Erik | if you do ./configure --with-x-includes=/usr/include/X11 it should 'just work' |
| 17:15.49 | FireBird2003 | i will first try it with my changed config |
| 17:16.14 | FireBird2003 | I'll try that later, ok? |
| 17:16.20 | ``Erik | aight |
| 17:16.25 | ``Erik | *shrug* up to you :) |
| 17:16.26 | FireBird2003 | I don't want to restart compilation again |
| 17:18.59 | FireBird2003 | hmm, some odd warnings in the compilation process, I wonder what a lint would say to them ;) |
| 17:20.12 | ``Erik | if it's in src/other/ we don't care *shrug* splint is brutal... and we have some other tools that report slews we need to fix :/ |
| 17:21.18 | FireBird2003 | ok, it was just a joke |
| 17:22.17 | ``Erik | well, it's legitimate *shrug* and 'flawfinder' has been run on an older version... http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1460888&group_id=105292&atid=640803 |
| 17:22.58 | ``Erik | (dwheeler, huh, same guy who does sloccount... neat) |
| 18:09.17 | FireBird2003 | ok, the headers were found by configure, now |
| 18:09.59 | FireBird2003 | trying to compile,,, |
| 18:13.33 | FireBird2003 | urgs |
| 18:14.22 | FireBird2003 | undefined reference to XFreeDevicesList in libdm.so |
| 18:16.42 | FireBird2003 | seems again like a wrong X Configuration |
| 18:20.36 | FireBird2003 | in /src/bwish |
| 18:21.47 | minute | brlcad: Hi, cool. Sorry about the lag, I was shopping. Can't see your changes because all my connections to the my.brlcad.org server are timing out. |
| 18:21.59 | brlcad | np |
| 18:22.30 | minute | Same problem as yesterday, must be an ISP problem or something. |
| 18:23.07 | minute | I'll just go fit a few screws into my PC... |
| 18:24.07 | brlcad | minute: try, http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/ss.png |
| 18:25.11 | minute | Also times out. |
| 18:25.37 | brlcad | http://66.111.56.50/~sean/tmp/ss.png ? |
| 18:26.37 | minute | times out |
| 18:29.38 | minute | dw about it |
| 18:29.46 | minute | it will clear up eventually like yesterday |
| 18:45.11 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 2 dirs): various minor fixes from "flawfinder" and compiler warnings |
| 19:17.11 | FireBird2003 | giving up the try to compile the sources... |
| 19:18.16 | brlcad | FireBird2003: what's the problem? |
| 19:18.28 | brlcad | CIA-21: wake up |
| 19:18.32 | FireBird2003 | undefined reference to XFreeDevicesList |
| 19:18.47 | FireBird2003 | iin libdm.so |
| 19:19.24 | FireBird2003 | I don't know what library is missing |
| 19:19.44 | brlcad | run this: nm -o /usr/X11R6/lib/lib*.a | grep -i XFreeDevicesList |
| 19:20.56 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: added missing header for fbsd. changed chmod() to fchmod() (flawfinder). |
| 19:21.01 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ADRT libtie bug fixes and performance enhancements |
| 19:21.05 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: fixed signed/unsigned comparison |
| 19:21.07 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: typos. |
| 19:21.21 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: minor casting and default value (-Wall) |
| 19:21.32 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: change fprintf to fputs/fputc to further reduce allocation possibilities |
| 19:22.38 | FireBird2003 | found it in /usr/lib |
| 19:22.55 | FireBird2003 | in libXi.a |
| 19:23.30 | brlcad | there ya go, -lXi |
| 19:23.39 | brlcad | make LIBS="-lXi" |
| 19:23.53 | brlcad | in whatever dir is failing |
| 19:24.10 | FireBird2003 | trying |
| 19:25.38 | FireBird2003 | seems to compile now... |
| 19:26.45 | FireBird2003 | I hope, that it will reach an end then |
| 19:29.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: trimmed down oversized string |
| 19:38.57 | minute | This is just silly. |
| 19:39.06 | minute | My SSH connections are just being picked off one by one. |
| 19:39.29 | brlcad | could be intentional |
| 19:39.38 | brlcad | maybe they don't want you on ssh :) |
| 19:39.41 | minute | First my connection to my.brlcad.org dies - then I loose excalibur.rudyvalencia.net - now I am using idkb.eu |
| 19:40.06 | minute | brlcad: they? :D |
| 19:40.14 | brlcad | they. |
| 19:40.19 | brlcad | as in .. the people out to get you |
| 19:40.24 | ``Erik | read the irregular striped bucket. |
| 19:40.26 | minute | hehe |
| 19:40.42 | ``Erik | er, striped irregular bucket, rather |
| 19:40.56 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: try not to bu_malloc() 0 bytes. Caused the lighting model to bomb... |
| 19:41.12 | ``Erik | http://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard_Indexes.html |
| 19:41.38 | brlcad | is that the cache bug? |
| 19:41.39 | minute | But odly I can still use Minefield to visit the excalibur web page, but not the my.brlcad.org one. |
| 19:41.43 | minute | It is so tedious sshing using ssh. |
| 19:41.59 | ``Erik | I dunno, it was causing failures without a cache... |
| 19:42.13 | ``Erik | I'm guessing when it was written, bu_malloc() did NOT bomb when given 0 bytes... |
| 19:43.40 | brlcad | maybe |
| 19:43.59 | brlcad | was added a couple years ago since code really shouldn't ever be doing that |
| 19:48.47 | FireBird2003 | finally, it compiled |
| 19:48.55 | FireBird2003 | thx, guys |
| 19:51.29 | ``Erik | and with only half the ritual needed for a linux kernel compile? :D |
| 19:52.25 | brlcad | FireBird2003: np, glad it worked out |
| 19:53.10 | FireBird2003 | I had shorter kernel compile affords ;) |
| 19:54.13 | minute | I can't stand how slow this is. Me is going to reinstall windows while I wait and see if the problem resolves. |
| 19:54.16 | ``Erik | once familiar, sure :) (personally, I'm kinda groovin' to fbsd kernel and system stuff.... "cd /usr/src ; make buildworld kernel world && reboot") |
| 19:54.46 | brlcad | minute: ahh, maybe you're part of a fun botnet |
| 19:54.54 | brlcad | compromised host et al |
| 19:55.07 | brlcad | need some tcpdump goodness to see what's going on |
| 19:55.56 | ``Erik | never peer into a tcpdump without protection, it'll consume your soul O.o |
| 19:58.58 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik fixed a photon-mapping lighting model crash where it was trying to allocate zero bytes (which cases an intentional bomb) |
| 19:59.24 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (Makefile.am adrt/Makefile.am): since it's now integrated with the big M, always compile adrt's libtie regardless of adrt being disabled/enabled because of python/sdl (since libtie is generic). |
| 20:04.19 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=yesxpqug@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-1709fefe02c01fa3) | |
| 20:15.05 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron (n=Anonymou@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com) | |
| 20:53.21 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-107-181.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:14.14 | minute | brlcad: My computer is directctly protected from the internet by a router. |
| 21:14.38 | minute | I am not afraid, although the house administrator with his direct connection should be. |
| 21:14.41 | minute | (I am on wi-fi). |
| 21:20.50 | kwizart | ok so Fedora's %configure macro set datadir in %{_datadir} which is what it should use, but if it is set to /usr/local/share/brlcad/ whihc seems the default , I have a backtrace at build step... |
| 21:20.58 | kwizart | also version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5a5, need 8.5a6-8.5a7 |
| 21:21.16 | kwizart | does 7.10.2 need tcl 8.5a6 or sooner ? |
| 21:21.26 | kwizart | i only have 8.5a5 |
| 21:21.46 | ``Erik | it should be ok with 8.5a5 |
| 21:21.58 | ``Erik | 8.4 won't work, though |
| 21:25.39 | kwizart | so i expect the tcl package i use export LD_PATH_TCL badly... |
| 21:26.01 | kwizart | then when it try to compile tcl script it fails to find the system tcl... |
| 21:26.50 | kwizart | so this answear why it may work with rpmbuild and not with the chrooter buildsys |
| 21:26.55 | kwizart | chrooted |
| 21:30.38 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 21:31.08 | ``Erik | <-- has never had to use LD_PATH_TCL O.o |
| 21:31.59 | ``Erik | I do have to pass some variables to get it to grab the system tcl on the boxen I care about (mostly fbsd), like CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include/tcl8.5 and LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib |
| 21:34.21 | brlcad | there is no a7 yet |
| 21:35.11 | kwizart | ``Erik, so you don't need some tclConfig.sh ? |
| 21:39.44 | *** join/#brlcad Apathy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 21:45.41 | ``Erik | shouldn't need it, kwiz, the script looks for the headers and libraries and assumes the location of the .tcl files I think... |
| 21:46.33 | ``Erik | (I assume brlcad will correct me if I'm wrong... ) |
| 21:47.01 | ``Erik | brlcad: libtie proper is still not upgraded? |
| 21:47.04 | ``Erik | in the repo? |
| 21:52.08 | kwizart | here is the "warning" i have at %install step: |
| 21:52.09 | kwizart | http://pastebin.ca/676252 |
| 21:52.50 | kwizart | that make me think while installing tclscript it search in brlcad contrib paths instead of system path... |
| 21:54.28 | ``Erik | why do you have dyld stuff? |
| 21:54.39 | ``Erik | or is that in the makefiles? heh |
| 21:55.37 | kwizart | actually i have /usr/share/tcl8.5/init.tcl which is not found at %install step... |
| 21:56.14 | kwizart | instead it search for /home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl |
| 21:56.27 | ``Erik | that's a funny place |
| 21:56.29 | kwizart | which is wrong since i would prefer to use system tcl |
| 21:56.32 | ``Erik | it should be in /usr/lib/tcl8.5/ |
| 21:56.53 | kwizart | yes but it is arch independant ?! |
| 21:57.22 | ``Erik | yes... but we kinda work off the defaults |
| 21:57.26 | ``Erik | and what, y'know, most os's use |
| 21:57.34 | ``Erik | ubuntu seems to be all kinds of weird :) |
| 21:58.11 | ``Erik | there MIGHT be a variable to fix it, but I don't know it off the top of my head |
| 21:58.35 | ``Erik | and I just started my nice long weekend, so I'm not terribly apt to dig it up :D sharpen up a stick and poke brlcad with it |
| 22:01.26 | kwizart | well for knwo i will tweak tclscript to use system by default... |
| 22:02.49 | kwizart | src/tclscripts/Makefile.am shows TCL_LIBRARY=$(top_srcdir)/src/other/tcl/library \ |
| 22:03.05 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 22:04.39 | kwizart | Can't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories: |
| 22:04.39 | kwizart | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:04.51 | kwizart | only the internal one is listed here ?! |
| 22:05.59 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 22:15.17 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: protect the vararg func decl |
| 22:33.41 | minute | This sucks. |
| 22:33.59 | minute | I am gonna get onto the ISP if this isn't resolved by the morning. |
| 22:34.19 | minute | Routhing throgh excalibur.rudyvalencia.com was slow, but routing through silentflame is even slower. |
| 04:17.29 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 04:54.54 | *** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 04:54.54 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 04:54.54 | *** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) | |
| 04:54.54 | *** mode/#brlcad [+oo brlcad ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 05:08.12 | brlcad | ``Erik: no, it's upgraded -- CIA-21 is being a bitch |
| 05:08.26 | brlcad | not reporting a slew of commites you'd made and I'd made |
| 05:25.13 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726774.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 05:26.18 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc.png :) |
| 07:04.36 | yukonbob | brlcad: you in? |
| 07:05.32 | yukonbob | ~lart brlcad |
| 07:05.32 | ibot | pours gasoline all over brlcad, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 07:06.03 | yukonbob | there should definately be a less violent library for lart |
| 07:14.30 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:18.57 | minute | I tell you, if this problem isn't fixed by the time the house administrator gets up someone at the ISP won't know what's hit them. :D |
| 08:19.08 | minute | Seriously though, this is irritating. |
| 08:20.17 | minute | Not least because I have to ssh through a different server to get to this one, increasing lag, but I can't actually do any work because I can't see the website. |
| 08:20.41 | minute | brlcad: It is definitely a problem with CIA-21: I got the commits listed in ##MinuteElectron. |
| 08:48.20 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 09:44.50 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-030-237.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 11:42.23 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Is the uptime value accurate? |
| 13:32.02 | brlcad | yep |
| 13:32.27 | brlcad | though unfortunately going to loose it here in a few days to an upgrade |
| 13:32.49 | brlcad | On Wednesday, 9/12/2007 11:00PM EST (-4UTC), the ISP for the server will begin performing maintenance on the rack where the server is located. The server will be down for a time period of 5 minutes or less between 11PM and 1AM. The maintenance will be to perform a power upgrade for the server. |
| 16:24.04 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 17:52.41 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875C87.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 18:29.01 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu) | |
| 18:56.55 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: You mean, you don't have it at your house |
| 19:02.29 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 19:03.01 | brlcad | it's a dedicated host server in a nice environmentally controlled facility on a high-bandwidth line down in florida |
| 19:04.39 | MinuteElectron | Cool, I think. |
| 19:06.38 | MinuteElectron | I have to go in a few minutes, travelling somewhere so I mgiht find a computer that can actually access your server. |
| 19:20.25 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 19:22.34 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, where is bz located? |
| 19:22.40 | PrezKennedy | whos the host? |
| 19:57.36 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 20:02.56 | CIA-21 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r237 10/trunk/libirc/examples/ (2 files in 2 dirs): don't join BZFlag, or opencombat for the samples, send em all to ether #libIRC, or #botpark |
| 20:21.10 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 20:42.21 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-228-103.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:48.43 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 21:53.24 | yukonbob | brlcad: got a minute to test something on 7.10.x? |
| 21:53.35 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:37.42 | yukonbob | . |
| 22:59.11 | brlcad | what kind of strange behavior? |
| 23:09.50 | Twingy | don't you have brl-cad running on your iphone yet? |
| 23:17.47 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:18.23 | Twingy | tsk |
| 23:18.30 | Twingy | I bet it compiles faster than the origin 200 |
| 23:37.16 | ``Erik | brlcad: is the facility downage a good opportunity to conduct an OS upgrade? |
| 23:39.10 | brlcad | it probably does |
| 23:39.50 | brlcad | ``Erik: i thought about that, though it's not going to be an easy upgrade |
| 23:40.22 | brlcad | i'd really like to mirror everything offsite "just in case" so that dns could be updated if anything went wrong |
| 23:40.56 | brlcad | and I don't see that happening by then (and there's no alternative that will retain the "5 min downtime" that they're estimating |
| 23:41.19 | brlcad | which is basically, reboot, plug in the remote reboot switch (that sits in front of the power), and boot up again |
| 00:29.54 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: strange 'pipe' behaviour -- I've got two pipes... (one for size reference, one I want to use)... "tt" == reference, tt2 == useful piece. tt2 is ~3mm longer than tt, but when I: |
| 00:30.09 | yukonbob | sed tt2; rot 0 -10 0 |
| 00:31.45 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 00:32.06 | yukonbob | tt2 measurements go haywire -- gets long, seem to be artifacts from original (proper) size, though.. and seems to stay that way... though 'l tt2' returns reasonable numbers... |
| 00:32.25 | yukonbob | where "gets long" == wireframe view in fb |
| 00:43.52 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 01:30.58 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 02:22.51 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 03:41.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 03:41.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: fixed various operability issues reported by flawfinder, predominantly related |
| 03:41.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: to quelling flawfinder warnings though some of the issues reported under |
| 03:41.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: specific input conditions could trigger bad application behavior including |
| 03:41.30 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: crashes, other instabilities, or outright potential security concerns. |
| 08:40.59 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 08:44.23 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876D1B.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 09:20.57 | *** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 10:38.16 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-085-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 11:02.45 | *** join/#brlcad minute (i=k4csbbpo@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-80bdd4c53fad51a3) | |
| 11:21.02 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, brlcad is no longer here. |
| 11:21.21 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o MinuteElectron] by ChanServ | |
| 11:23.44 | MinuteElectron | ok.. |
| 11:23.55 | MinuteElectron | lol, 100% packet loss. |
| 11:26.05 | *** join/#brlcad cad05 (n=56201557@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 11:44.03 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876D1B.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 12:23.01 | ``Erik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA |
| 12:51.05 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 12:56.27 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: work safe? |
| 15:35.16 | tofu | yeah, it's safe though kinda silly .. code monkey videorama done in warcraft |
| 16:10.27 | MinuteElectron | Oh, ok. |
| 16:11.29 | MinuteElectron | Hey brlcad, noticed you tried out a few color changes. |
| 16:13.14 | MinuteElectron | I like the tone of green you put in the footer, but not so sure how well it suits the tan border. |
| 16:13.38 | MinuteElectron | Although it does seem to finalise the page in a way due to the similarity between the header and the footer. |
| 16:15.13 | MinuteElectron | The rewording is good, so is the change in font size between the copyright notice and the quotes. |
| 19:07.55 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 19:27.39 | yukonbob | hello, cadders |
| 19:28.11 | MinuteElectron | hi |
| 19:56.17 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875458.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 19:57.40 | yukonbob | minute: are you running brlcad, or just working on the site? |
| 22:51.14 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 00:51.01 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 02:38.46 | thing0 | morning yall |
| 02:44.31 | yukonbob | hey brlcad |
| 02:44.38 | yukonbob | 2 questions when you have some time. |
| 02:45.49 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 02:58.55 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
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| 06:06.43 | yukonbob | . |
| 06:06.51 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:06.57 | louipc | ooh |
| 06:07.13 | Laniakea | louipc: you surf? |
| 06:07.29 | Laniakea | louipc: do you have Mr. Zog's Seks Waks? |
| 06:08.10 | louipc | i have Firefox :D |
| 06:08.19 | Laniakea | oh |
| 06:08.33 | Laniakea | but even this type of surfing can bring you a sixpack |
| 06:08.52 | louipc | hahah |
| 09:27.28 | minute | yukonbob: Just working on the website. |
| 09:28.41 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Did you get my messages? |
| 10:18.41 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: If it is alright with you can we start populating Drupal and the Wiki with content (once I port the skin). We have reached the point where imporvements will be made as we go along and are needed (for example when you decide about a poll question a poll can easily be added). |
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| 18:08.33 | yukonbob | . |
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| 18:42.15 | louipc | . |
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| 18:55.01 | yukonbob | louipc: what version of brlcad are you running? |
| 18:55.18 | louipc | 7.10.2 |
| 18:56.04 | yukonbob | *test on 7.8.4 |
| 18:56.19 | louipc | hah I just noticed something funny.. there's a video game called enigma and there's a program in BRL-CAD called enigma :/ |
| 18:59.58 | brlcad | it's a 3rd party tool, a public domain replacement/implementation for/of 'crypt' |
| 19:00.14 | brlcad | and something we can throw away on a dime if we had to |
| 19:01.24 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yes, I read your comments -- thanks |
| 19:02.09 | louipc | yep I looked into it a bit |
| 19:02.11 | brlcad | and I agree that the there's not a good distinction between the tan bar and the pale green footer, but as you noted -- it's at least "consistent" working well with the header |
| 19:02.52 | brlcad | probably just needs a hairline separation, or the tan bar can be changed later to something easier to work with or the green too |
| 19:03.38 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 19:05.09 | brlcad | as for an initial poll question, I have several ideas myself -- but I'd be interested in hearing ideas from others first (feel free to speak up!) :) |
| 19:05.50 | poolio | allo brlcad |
| 19:05.55 | brlcad | howdy poolio |
| 19:06.06 | brlcad | how was the first week? |
| 19:06.14 | brlcad | yukonbob: excellent :) |
| 19:06.24 | yukonbob | brlcad, heh ;) |
| 19:06.28 | poolio | pretty boring. classes are going to be rough though. my laptop is on the fritz :\ |
| 19:07.14 | yukonbob | brlcad: while I've got you online, is there a 'time' component to shooting rays? Ie: can one determine how long to reach a target, and reflect back? |
| 19:07.23 | poolio | didn't get the programming class ... so I'm not doing any coding for 4 months :o |
| 19:07.50 | louipc | that sucks |
| 19:08.03 | poolio | You can determine the distance....and you can get the time based on the speed you want your ray to be using simple mathematics |
| 19:08.17 | poolio | yeah...vga card is bad or the memory controller is fscked. |
| 19:08.19 | brlcad | yukonbob: not inherintly, time would be a parameter in the application's domain |
| 19:08.31 | yukonbob | ok... that's what I was curious about... |
| 19:08.35 | brlcad | so while you can certainly track it based off of the distances, the library doesn't know about time |
| 19:08.51 | poolio | Is the speed of light defined anywhere in brl-cad? |
| 19:08.54 | brlcad | there have been several apps that take time into account |
| 19:10.59 | brlcad | poolio: not really, none of the tools in brl-cad take time as a unit into account other than for basic unit conversion (and then it's only wrt a "lightyear" distance) |
| 19:11.39 | brlcad | most ray-tracers assume you're simulating instant propagation |
| 19:11.42 | poolio | Ah ok. I might have to write some code to aid me in physics to scratch my coding itch. |
| 19:12.14 | brlcad | :) |
| 19:12.50 | brlcad | most of my most interesting code was actually done outside of class |
| 19:14.42 | brlcad | even with the coding classes, there's often too little time to actually sort through "real" issues as you're focused on whatever the goal of the homework assignment was (which is usually just a specific task and not "production-quality" are rarely ever practical code) |
| 19:15.39 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-102-185.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:19.25 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Got your messages. |
| 19:19.31 | MinuteElectron | Can't deal with it now. |
| 19:19.40 | brlcad | deal with what? |
| 19:19.44 | MinuteElectron | I still am unable to access your site and connecting through someone elses server is tedious. |
| 19:20.00 | brlcad | sorry to hear about that.. figure out the cause? |
| 19:20.06 | brlcad | anything I can do to help? :) |
| 19:20.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Polls, hairline border, MediaWiki porting. |
| 19:20.40 | brlcad | I'm working on the hairline, don't worry about it |
| 19:20.49 | brlcad | even without it, it's probably "good enough" for now |
| 19:20.57 | brlcad | the site is still way better than the current |
| 19:21.04 | brlcad | way better :) |
| 19:21.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: It is a very odd problem, all my other friends who use Virgin media can access the site, and so can every other machine. All the other machines in my house have a same problem. |
| 19:21.16 | MinuteElectron | Thanks :D |
| 19:21.26 | brlcad | pm me your IP |
| 19:21.34 | MinuteElectron | The response time is about half a second with occasional pauses. |
| 19:22.03 | brlcad | I can try a traceroute to see if there's anything unusual with the route |
| 19:23.45 | MinuteElectron | For me it times out at sagonet.net if that means anything to you. |
| 19:23.56 | brlcad | aack |
| 19:23.58 | brlcad | found the problem |
| 19:24.03 | MinuteElectron | Well, it hops to there then can't reach any further. |
| 19:24.04 | brlcad | this time it's something else |
| 19:24.12 | brlcad | gimmie a sec |
| 19:24.19 | MinuteElectron | K. |
| 19:25.47 | brlcad | try it now |
| 19:27.04 | brlcad | apparently after the problem started, or perhaps even as a result of it, there were a lot of invalid ssh connection attempts |
| 19:27.26 | MinuteElectron | It seams to work. |
| 19:27.35 | MinuteElectron | After the problem? |
| 19:27.48 | brlcad | the server watches most connection activity and if anything is excessively abnormal, it blocks connetivity -- it detected a problem from your ip and blocked (more than a dozen invalid connections) |
| 19:27.57 | brlcad | on the 30th |
| 19:28.03 | brlcad | so three days ago |
| 19:28.04 | MinuteElectron | Oh, ok. |
| 19:28.32 | MinuteElectron | Is it 30 in total ever or 30 in total over a set period pof time. |
| 19:28.37 | MinuteElectron | brb |
| 19:29.07 | MinuteElectron | back |
| 19:29.07 | brlcad | part of an intrusion detection setup, the server gets hit with a couple dozen attacks per day that are automatically taken care of usually within a minute of the attack |
| 19:29.43 | brlcad | it happened on Aug 30 that the block went into effect |
| 19:29.55 | MinuteElectron | Well, you see. I am a sloppy typer and I think I must have made about 30 bad password entries in my time with access to the server. |
| 19:30.11 | brlcad | nah, bad passwords are detected different |
| 19:30.18 | MinuteElectron | Oh, ok. |
| 19:30.18 | brlcad | there is a limit on those, but that's not what you hit |
| 19:30.36 | MinuteElectron | So, my IP attacked your server? |
| 19:30.37 | brlcad | "invalid" ssh connections, as reported by ssh |
| 19:30.52 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, how odd. |
| 19:30.59 | brlcad | all within a short time period of about a day or two |
| 19:31.04 | MinuteElectron | Sorry for causing so much trouble if it was my fault. |
| 19:31.09 | brlcad | nah, it's no biggie |
| 19:31.31 | brlcad | this was obviously a false positive, and those are always bad -- and the server's fault imho |
| 19:31.45 | brlcad | though could have been provoked by the connection problems you were having before |
| 19:32.03 | brlcad | because when you first started having problems, and you gave me your ip, I checked.. and you weren't on the list |
| 19:32.24 | brlcad | so maybe the connection problems through your ISP caused the bad ssh connections, hard to say |
| 19:32.46 | MinuteElectron | That would make sense, if I were unable to access the server for a few hours and periodiclly checked it could cause messed my connections which then triggered the firewall. |
| 19:33.44 | brlcad | yeah, something like that could trigger it |
| 19:34.40 | brlcad | one of the most common ssh attacks is ones looking for vulnerable sshd's where the client connects about a dozen times, all 'invalid' where the client sends bogus data to the sshd testing whether it's vunlerable |
| 19:35.15 | brlcad | that's obviously not what was going on in your case, but connection-wise, it looks the same |
| 19:35.22 | MinuteElectron | I see. |
| 19:35.49 | MinuteElectron | Does there happen to be a directory I could use to store data in, I need a directory to stick my skin and its stuff in? |
| 19:36.03 | MinuteElectron | So I can symlink it to MediaWiki and Drupal. |
| 19:36.09 | brlcad | skin? |
| 19:36.15 | MinuteElectron | the brlcad design. |
| 19:36.27 | MinuteElectron | The thing I have been working on for several months. |
| 19:36.33 | brlcad | it's currently in d/themes/brlcad no? |
| 19:36.46 | MinuteElectron | Yeah. |
| 19:36.58 | MinuteElectron | So I can symlink w/skins/brlcad to that directory? |
| 19:37.19 | brlcad | sure, or symlink them both to someplace else if you like |
| 19:37.30 | MinuteElectron | That would be cleaner. |
| 19:37.42 | brlcad | anywhere in the my.brlcad.org that you think works well organizationally |
| 19:37.55 | brlcad | if it's going to be shared, probably deserves to be at the same level as d and w |
| 19:38.00 | MinuteElectron | I am very warey about upgrading Drupal because I have never used it before so am worried about erasing the skin. |
| 19:38.03 | MinuteElectron | Ok, cool. |
| 19:42.38 | brlcad | sorry for taking so long to check your ip again, that was bad diligence on my part |
| 19:43.01 | brlcad | good news now, though, is that you're on a whitelist so you shouldn't get blocked again if it the same thing happens |
| 19:43.15 | brlcad | or even if something different happens |
| 19:47.29 | MinuteElectron | Thanks :D |
| 19:49.29 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, how odd. I can't chown my own files to www and vice versa. |
| 20:00.42 | poolio | try sudo? |
| 20:05.53 | MinuteElectron | I can't. |
| 20:05.56 | MinuteElectron | I am not sudo. |
| 20:10.44 | MinuteElectron | It kind-of makes sense. |
| 20:11.09 | MinuteElectron | If you sudo as a user then you technically are that user and not your old user. |
| 20:11.30 | MinuteElectron | So you don't have the permissions of both users, just the one you are sudoing as. |
| 20:11.41 | MinuteElectron | But it would be nice for it not to be that way. |
| 20:20.13 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Got some news that I can put on the site? |
| 20:23.13 | louipc | cool the site is skinnable? |
| 20:24.18 | MinuteElectron | Yeah... |
| 20:30.19 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: you should be able to sudo chown -u www |
| 20:30.28 | MinuteElectron | I sould? Cool. |
| 20:30.35 | MinuteElectron | Does that work both ways? |
| 20:30.48 | brlcad | as www chown back to you? |
| 20:31.07 | brlcad | once it's www, you sudo -u www |
| 20:31.24 | brlcad | fyi, i'm tweaking the footer |
| 20:31.26 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 20:31.30 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 20:31.35 | brlcad | so poking on page.tpl and the style |
| 20:31.46 | MinuteElectron | ok, I won't mess about with it yet, |
| 20:41.10 | brlcad | stupid botnets |
| 20:43.29 | yukonbob | in tt pipe 4 0 0 0 17 20 10 20 0 0 19 20 10 560 0 0 19 20 10 580 0 0 17 20 10 |
| 20:43.48 | yukonbob | in tt2 pipe 4 0 0 0 17 20 10 20 0 0 19 20 10 563.566 0 0 19 20 10 583.566 0 0 17 20 10 |
| 20:44.07 | yukonbob | sed tt2 |
| 20:44.14 | yukonbob | rot 0 -10 0 |
| 20:44.35 | yukonbob | *these should endup w/ the "left" edge at same x |
| 20:44.38 | yukonbob | (580) |
| 20:45.09 | yukonbob | on 7.8.4, the rot explodes tt2 to a huge length, though. |
| 20:48.41 | yukonbob | ?is it the floating point measurement |
| 20:54.08 | yukonbob | ("left" at 'ae 90 0') |
| 20:54.10 | yukonbob | :P |
| 21:05.56 | yukonbob | ?can anybody else confirm the buggy behaviour |
| 21:07.49 | louipc | what's the error? |
| 21:14.20 | yukonbob | louipc: did you build the pipes and do the rotation? |
| 21:16.18 | louipc | http://louipc.dontexist.org/2007-09-02-171442_1280x1024_scrot.png |
| 21:16.54 | yukonbob | 1 sec |
| 21:17.19 | louipc | I don't know what it should look like or anything hah |
| 21:24.44 | yukonbob | www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.pdf |
| 21:24.58 | yukonbob | :P -- xwd wouldn't grab screen for some reason... |
| 21:25.52 | louipc | oh wow |
| 21:26.01 | louipc | so try the latest version maybe? :D |
| 21:28.34 | yukonbob | www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.png (same thing, but actual screen grab) |
| 21:29.15 | yukonbob | louipc: ya -- re: latest, I'm _still_ trying to get tcl 8.5 to build like I want, and, that version of tcl is still in beta form... |
| 21:29.43 | yukonbob | I've got lots of other tcl-dependant software I need to keep running ;) |
| 21:29.57 | louipc | the brlcad bundled one won't work? |
| 21:30.03 | louipc | hm |
| 21:31.00 | louipc | I've actually had two Tcls installed before hehe |
| 21:31.44 | yukonbob | louipc: I'm sure it's possible... I'm just trying to build w/i package framework, and possibly with libs, etc. completely seperate... I've not got that figured out yet... |
| 21:32.15 | yukonbob | there's still a bug in 7.8.4, though :) |
| 21:32.32 | louipc | yeah I was kind of trying that but there's other things I need to fix too :/ |
| 21:34.24 | yukonbob | hrmm... if I: rot 0 -20 0; rot 0 10 0 -- it "works". |
| 21:35.05 | yukonbob | and in my screenshot, one can see how it "knows" where the endpoints should be... |
| 21:37.46 | yukonbob | exiting/reopening with a "bad" element yields same result (ie: element is still "bad") |
| 21:37.55 | yukonbob | *exiting/reopening db |
| 21:43.13 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Difficculties? |
| 21:59.03 | brlcad | drupal has a voting module built-in |
| 22:00.07 | MinuteElectron | It does, well that is kind-of the problem. |
| 22:00.34 | MinuteElectron | The poll wouldn't be able to go on MediaWiki if it is Drupal integrated. If you don't mind that then we can use the module. |
| 22:05.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 22:05.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: Added basic tab expansion by adding a binding for tab. Does not use readline |
| 22:05.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: library (would require massive rewrite of ged.c and text.tcl). This may be |
| 22:05.35 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: enough to satisfy the feature request for tab expansion. |
| 22:09.56 | MinuteElectron | Drupal has such a steep learning curve. |
| 22:24.57 | brlcad | i don't think the poll needs to expose over to the wiki |
| 22:25.18 | brlcad | i see the wiki being used as the primary documentation, knowledgebase center |
| 22:25.46 | brlcad | wouldn't want most of the dynamic site content on the wiki so that the pages can be readily printed if needed |
| 22:27.01 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 23:00.13 | brlcad | whew |
| 23:00.35 | brlcad | the more I use it, the more I dislike css :) |
| 23:00.40 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 23:00.43 | MinuteElectron | it sucks |
| 23:00.47 | MinuteElectron | nice work |
| 23:00.51 | brlcad | the footer should have that hilight now |
| 23:00.54 | brlcad | see how it looks |
| 23:01.23 | MinuteElectron | Veyr nice, just the border around the image now. |
| 23:01.27 | poolio | If I say "eww" are you going to slap me? |
| 23:01.55 | brlcad | depends :) |
| 23:02.13 | brlcad | eww as in doesn't work or you just don't like the overall look |
| 23:02.32 | brlcad | don't care if you don't like the overall/color/layout :) |
| 23:02.42 | brlcad | it's better than what's up now, a lot better, and that's the point for now |
| 23:02.58 | brlcad | if it eww because it doesn't render correctly, then I'd care :) |
| 23:03.08 | poolio | well, it doesn't render correctly |
| 23:03.23 | MinuteElectron | Can you do a screeshot? |
| 23:03.27 | poolio | otw |
| 23:03.42 | brlcad | worked fine in firefox/safari for me |
| 23:03.53 | brlcad | i know ie6 has problems with the transparent png's |
| 23:03.59 | poolio | http://poolio.org/files/header.png |
| 23:04.05 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, pngfix doesn't work on that. |
| 23:04.27 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 23:04.43 | poolio | brlcad: question, www.poolio.org goes to bz.bzflag.bz how do I fix that? |
| 23:04.57 | poolio | (well, duh it goes there, but it displays the bz.bzflag.bz text) |
| 23:04.58 | brlcad | different style/font being applied.. not so easy to make the search field and menu auto-expanding |
| 23:07.01 | louipc | what's so bad about css? |
| 23:08.03 | brlcad | poolio: you had a bad alias line in your apache config |
| 23:08.15 | brlcad | needed to be *.poolio.org, not just poolio.org |
| 23:08.25 | brlcad | i fixed it |
| 23:08.28 | poolio | thanks |
| 23:11.09 | brlcad | louipc: pita to get things lined up, with the right layering of A on top of B underneath C, the appropriate scales/resizes, etc |
| 23:12.13 | brlcad | fg |
| 23:12.34 | louipc | yeah it depends on different browsers, screen resolutions etc |
| 23:13.54 | louipc | it's easier to just use block positioning, one thing after another |
| 23:34.52 | MinuteElectron | goodngiht, I will sort out some stuff tomorrow - but my big project is getting the poll into the sidebar. |
| 23:36.42 | brlcad | hm, that should just be a matter of setting the poll as a block, enabling that block on the main page ("promote to front page") |
| 00:09.56 | ``Erik | css screams of a solution to a different problem :( |
| 00:12.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:45.43 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 01:48.02 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: well, I got the header menu auto-sizing now (at least horizontally, not gonna touch vertically..) |
| 01:48.47 | brlcad | annoying padding problem on firefox that I couldn't get rid of that makes the horizontal scrollbar show up for all of 5 pixels |
| 01:49.52 | brlcad | it has to be related to the navcorner, but i'm sick of it now :) |
| 02:50.44 | brlcad | hm, actually was related to the separators .. which I wasn't really happy with regardless, so I just ripped them out |
| 02:51.00 | brlcad | seems to work fine now |
| 03:12.52 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 04:12.44 | brlcad | woot, and it even looks okay in IE6 now |
| 04:20.32 | yukonbob | brlcad: did you see my posting earlier today re: that pipe and rotation? |
| 04:35.00 | yukonbob | ~lart errror |
| 04:35.00 | ibot | whips out a sword and chops errror in half |
| 04:35.08 | yukonbob | ~lart error |
| 04:35.08 | ibot | declares error a moron |
| 04:40.55 | louipc | I guess error got the bot that time |
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| 09:15.49 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I though you wanted the poll in the sidebar? |
| 09:23.34 | brlcad | erm, I do/did |
| 09:23.39 | brlcad | i wasn't working on that |
| 09:24.54 | MinuteElectron | No, but you said about promoting it to the main page. That is easy, but how do I get it into the sidebar from there? |
| 09:26.49 | brlcad | ah, that's a view you just turn on iirc |
| 09:27.26 | brlcad | i'm having basic password problems oddly enough .. i've disabled ldap and reset my password and it still won't accept it on a re-login |
| 09:28.28 | brlcad | I did get the menu working, as well as a bunch of other style and layout tweaks |
| 09:29.42 | brlcad | alas, now it's my turn to nap :) ttyl |
| 09:30.09 | MinuteElectron | night |
| 09:30.12 | MinuteElectron | I tihhnk |
| 09:38.20 | brlcad | Admin -> Site Building -> Blocks -> "Most Recent Poll" |
| 09:38.45 | brlcad | you've got the left and right sidebar styles swapped (or at least you're displaying the left on the right |
| 09:40.05 | brlcad | there's a variety of blocks that can be turned on/off in the blocks section, lett-to-three column layouts by just selecting the dropdown and weights |
| 09:40.52 | MinuteElectron | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:05.06 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 10:34.01 | ``Erik | </blah |
| 12:37.52 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 14:01.14 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart) | |
| 14:01.14 | kwizart | hi! |
| 14:01.14 | kwizart | can brlcad can work with a "vanilla" openNurbs ? |
| 14:02.10 | kwizart | i need to check what have changed with the openNurbs sources so openNurbs can be build shared externally... |
| 15:44.24 | brlcad | kwizart: yes it can though we have made mods so that the build works |
| 15:45.47 | brlcad | i believe you can see in the commit log in src/other/openNURBS where I made the handful of necessary mods that fixed their files/build |
| 15:45.48 | kwizart | because it seems better to take your patches - but some of them seems related to copyright changes... and some others are moving headers... |
| 15:46.05 | kwizart | well i have made a diff -uNr |
| 15:46.19 | kwizart | but the resulting patch is huge... |
| 15:48.25 | brlcad | in src/other/openNURBS? |
| 15:50.56 | kwizart | yes |
| 15:52.21 | kwizart | did I missed something ? |
| 15:52.30 | brlcad | are you doing a cvs diff or a dir-to-dir diff? |
| 15:53.52 | kwizart | dir-to-dir |
| 15:56.43 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487498E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 15:56.44 | brlcad | can you post your diff, might be easier if I see what you see :) |
| 15:59.05 | brlcad | yeah, I don't see anything copyright related |
| 15:59.23 | brlcad | jason re-implemented a lot of functionality that the rhino guys ripped out |
| 15:59.47 | kwizart | http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/patches/openNURBS-4.0-openNURBS_brlcad.patch |
| 16:01.00 | brlcad | for reference, here's what I have that we modified http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/opennurbs.patch |
| 16:01.19 | brlcad | cvs -q diff -b -B -kk -u -r 1.1 > changes.patch |
| 16:04.06 | brlcad | hm, your diff has several oddities... entire files added/missing |
| 16:04.21 | brlcad | e.g. opennurbs_crashtest.h |
| 16:04.29 | kwizart | yes! |
| 16:04.31 | kwizart | but why ? |
| 16:10.30 | brlcad | i'm thinking the opennurbs we started with is different |
| 16:13.21 | kwizart | i've took the 4.0 version of it...i don't remember if when it was released... |
| 16:13.21 | brlcad | i'm checking that now |
| 16:13.21 | brlcad | they have a tendency to release several version of the same version |
| 16:13.32 | brlcad | yep, that's it |
| 16:13.32 | brlcad | -#define OPENNURBS_VERSION 200707189 |
| 16:13.33 | brlcad | +#define OPENNURBS_VERSION 200612059 |
| 16:13.53 | brlcad | they made a release just really recently .. didn't know that |
| 16:14.07 | brlcad | we started with the december 2006 release |
| 16:14.28 | brlcad | so I'll have to merge in their update |
| 16:15.23 | brlcad | that's the missing files and copyright 'changes' -- e.g. files that they had that didn't have a copyright header, now have one |
| 16:16.07 | brlcad | yeah, and they're both "4.0" |
| 16:18.26 | kwizart | yes and they also have updated -// Copyright (c) 1993-2007 even if the file hasn't other update |
| 16:19.12 | kwizart | i don't know how i can consider the "not even copyleft" notice |
| 16:21.02 | kwizart | if there is not FOSS compliant License this is not supposed to be allowed in Fedora... |
| 16:21.02 | brlcad | it's because their terms basically say it's public domain |
| 16:21.11 | brlcad | think of it as a 0-clause BSD license |
| 16:21.57 | brlcad | it's of course technically not public domain, they retained copyright, but they allow any use |
| 16:23.15 | brlcad | their terms on the website are a bit misworded "There are no restrictions. Neither copyright nor copyleft restrictions apply." .. that's basically saying public domain |
| 16:24.10 | brlcad | and contradict their files, which claim copyright but then refer you to the website :) |
| 16:24.48 | brlcad | we should pull in their website 'terms' just to cover arse |
| 16:40.56 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron) | |
| 16:51.11 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:53.01 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 17:13.27 | Laniakea | brlcad: something for you http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.avi |
| 17:15.35 | Laniakea | ``Erik: isn't the BRL-CAD requirement for the latest version of OpenBSD a bit stringent? |
| 17:53.34 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: fixed the footer on collapse/expand though I had to use a nasty nasty hack |
| 17:54.27 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, /me wonders what the nasty hack was. |
| 17:56.43 | brlcad | look at misc/collapse.js |
| 17:56.59 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 17:57.01 | brlcad | basically resize the window during the animation |
| 17:57.22 | brlcad | it's a bit clunky on expansion, but fairly smooth on collapse here |
| 17:58.15 | brlcad | also fixed my login problems.. the ldap module wasn't working right |
| 17:59.03 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, it appeared to be broken -I got a few PHP errors. |
| 18:00.58 | CIA-21 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: openNURBS just released an update back at the end of July, schedule integrating/reviewing those changes |
| 18:05.21 | brlcad | hmm, that's pretty freaking cool Laniakea... and he left |
| 18:16.35 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can you quickly submit a vote on the poll so I can see how my styling looks when applied at a different percentage level? |
| 18:17.32 | MinuteElectron | Not sure whether dark should indicate percentage or light should. |
| 18:19.43 | MinuteElectron | I gotta run, bbl. |
| 18:22.47 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: i don't see a way TO vote.. :) |
| 18:24.31 | brlcad | there aren't any options other that seeing the results, and posting comments |
| 19:08.21 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-96-242.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:23.33 | brlcad | that's pretty freaking cool Laniakea... |
| 19:24.27 | Laniakea | brlcad: thanks |
| 19:24.55 | Laniakea | brlcad: it's unfinished yet but if you want to do something with it it's under GFDL |
| 19:26.03 | Laniakea | like for example there are some flashes inside and I don't know what is causing them yet |
| 19:26.11 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net) | |
| 19:26.12 | Laniakea | or the bitrate needs to be increased |
| 19:26.19 | Laniakea | end titles are missing |
| 19:26.25 | Laniakea | the music ends abruptly |
| 19:26.39 | Laniakea | the ordering of the individual 3D models is more or less random |
| 19:31.57 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-092-234.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 19:33.15 | Laniakea | brlcad: is it possible to make some kind of cartoon style? By overlaying the rtedge output with rt output? |
| 19:35.59 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Have you tried looking at the main page while logged in? |
| 19:40.20 | brlcad | yeah, I noticed the flashes |
| 19:40.53 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: You should be able to vote now. |
| 19:41.38 | brlcad | Laniakea: it is possible, the rtwizard tool does that exact thing .. basically you do an rt, and and rtedge, and with the right options the two can be composited together using another cad tool (pixmatte iirc) |
| 19:42.38 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: okay, now it worked :) |
| 19:42.39 | brlcad | what was it? |
| 19:42.52 | MinuteElectron | I had to set permissions. |
| 19:42.55 | brlcad | ahh |
| 19:45.31 | MinuteElectron | bbl |
| 19:47.24 | Laniakea | brlcad: what's the meaning of in1, in2, true_out and false_out files in pixmatte? |
| 19:47.25 | brlcad | another detail I changed on the style, black and white aren't used except for exceptional situations -- using 111 and eee instead as needed |
| 19:47.33 | brlcad | otherwise the contrast can be outright painful on some displays |
| 19:47.57 | brlcad | Laniakea: it's a dual channel filtering program |
| 19:48.10 | brlcad | so you provide two input streams, and filters on both streams |
| 19:48.14 | brlcad | manpage has some examples |
| 19:48.27 | Laniakea | I don't have manpage |
| 19:48.38 | Laniakea | I would understand 2 channels and a mask saying which one should go out |
| 19:48.41 | brlcad | hm? |
| 19:48.44 | brlcad | brlman pixmatte |
| 19:48.56 | brlcad | or man -M /usr/brlcad/man pixmatte |
| 19:49.22 | Laniakea | huh? |
| 19:49.22 | Laniakea | I didn't know there is a thing like brlman |
| 19:49.22 | Laniakea | now it works |
| 19:49.22 | brlcad | if you have brl-cad installed, there are hundreds of manual pages :) |
| 19:49.28 | Laniakea | I always guessed |
| 19:49.37 | Laniakea | I didn't know the manpages are available |
| 19:49.38 | brlcad | you have to set your MANPATH, use -M, or use brlman (which just does it for you) |
| 19:49.50 | Laniakea | I tried "man something" and when it failed I assumed brl-cad doesn't come with manpage |
| 19:49.56 | brlcad | ahh |
| 19:50.01 | brlcad | just like setting your PATH |
| 19:51.33 | Laniakea | oh now I understand |
| 19:51.33 | brlcad | i'd suggest setting MANPATH since brlman's pager is kinda lame |
| 19:52.38 | Laniakea | is it possible to turn off the shading so that rt would return just the material color? So it would be filled with uniform colour like cartoons and not shaded color like 3d model? |
| 19:52.38 | Laniakea | but brlman rtwizard is not available |
| 20:03.24 | brlcad | only about 300 of the 400 tools have manpages |
| 20:04.11 | brlcad | to turn off shading, I believe there is a lighting model for that (-L option iirc, under gui options too) and if that doesn't work, you can always set the shader to 'flat' |
| 20:31.09 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487498E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 22:12.25 | ``Erik | that time of the month? O.o |
| 22:30.47 | kwizart | hum! why /usr/bin/wall from brlcad conflict with SysVinit ? |
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| 05:48.57 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 07:30.31 | *** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 12:46.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 12:46.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: once again, john continues to rock and rock hard he does with this latest |
| 12:46.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: addition -- tab-completion for mged. he added tab bindings for both classic and |
| 12:46.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: tcl gui mode where the commands complete out and then during command processing, |
| 12:46.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: tab expands out to the available objects including down a geometry path. this |
| 12:46.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: has been a long-desired, often-requested feature. very awesome, even if it |
| 12:46.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: doesn't use readline/libedit. ;) |
| 15:26.25 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:37.57 | *** join/#brlcad cad00 (n=3bb63c48@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 15:38.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: commit to quell compiler warning |
| 15:47.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (jack/g-jack.c off/g-off.c): use literal terminator instead of casting null (fixes compiler warning) |
| 16:20.16 | MinuteElectron | Now, I know I was going to do something... |
| 16:46.00 | ``Erik | not me, I was gonna do stuff intead |
| 17:11.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_tgc.c: only print all that prep stuff if solid debugging is turned on |
| 18:01.20 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:01.32 | ``Erik | all this spaghetti code is making me want to go get some italian O.o |
| 18:25.47 | *** join/#brlcad cad36 (n=51301ba5@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:36.17 | *** join/#brlcad cad50 (n=4a5c94fa@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:39.53 | ``Erik | heh, finally got it |
| 18:40.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: carry a_logoverlap so -R has the expected behavior when building the irradiance cache |
| 19:04.40 | brlcad | that's probably NEWS-worthy, it's user-visible |
| 19:35.07 | MinuteElectron | Drupal is a whore to upgrade. |
| 19:46.23 | MinuteElectron | Everything is done BTW. |
| 19:46.27 | MinuteElectron | On the site. |
| 19:47.48 | MinuteElectron | In case anyone was worried. |
| 19:52.32 | brlcad | awesome! |
| 19:53.08 | brlcad | i've upgraded drupal in the past and found it to be pretty painless for that particular upgrade (albeit a couple years ago now) |
| 19:53.16 | brlcad | eek |
| 19:53.31 | brlcad | that kind of command scares the daylights out of me :) |
| 19:53.50 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Would you mind upgrading it. |
| 19:54.04 | MinuteElectron | I have restored it I can't work it out. |
| 19:54.04 | brlcad | didn't you just do it? |
| 19:54.12 | MinuteElectron | No, it was down? |
| 19:54.18 | brlcad | hm? |
| 19:54.25 | brlcad | i was just going from what you said |
| 19:54.32 | brlcad | that "Everything is done" |
| 19:54.34 | MinuteElectron | oh, ok |
| 19:54.41 | MinuteElectron | s/done/down |
| 19:54.49 | MinuteElectron | Sorry, uber-typo. |
| 19:55.16 | brlcad | oooh |
| 19:55.22 | brlcad | heh, yeah |
| 19:55.55 | brlcad | is it still down? |
| 19:56.05 | MinuteElectron | No, I restored it. |
| 19:56.12 | MinuteElectron | But it is still 5.1 not 5.2. |
| 19:56.19 | brlcad | ah, down because of the upgrade |
| 19:56.29 | brlcad | thought you meant because of some other issue |
| 19:56.33 | MinuteElectron | I have no idea of how to upgrade, been trying for ages. |
| 19:56.54 | brlcad | okay, I'll take a look at it |
| 19:56.58 | MinuteElectron | Thanks. |
| 19:57.01 | brlcad | presume you need .2 for something? |
| 19:57.14 | MinuteElectron | Yeah. |
| 19:57.17 | brlcad | k |
| 19:57.19 | MinuteElectron | No, security updates. |
| 19:57.24 | brlcad | ah |
| 19:57.40 | brlcad | iirc, the files installed are from freebsd ports |
| 19:58.04 | brlcad | so I can just update the port, copy the updated files over, run the db upgrade script if any db actions changed |
| 19:58.14 | MinuteElectron | oh? |
| 19:58.25 | MinuteElectron | from a port? |
| 19:59.01 | brlcad | from the "ports" system, freebsd version of apt, portage, fink, etc |
| 20:00.38 | MinuteElectron | ok... |
| 20:01.19 | MinuteElectron | No, it isn't from a port. |
| 20:01.24 | brlcad | hm |
| 20:01.27 | brlcad | oh! |
| 20:01.31 | MinuteElectron | I have records of doing the wget. |
| 20:01.34 | brlcad | yeah, you set up the current files.. that's right |
| 20:01.40 | MinuteElectron | *grin* |
| 20:01.43 | brlcad | sorry, confusing the site with another |
| 20:01.49 | brlcad | same for wikimedia |
| 20:01.52 | brlcad | er, mediawiki |
| 20:01.52 | MinuteElectron | It hapens. |
| 20:01.57 | MinuteElectron | *happens |
| 20:02.29 | brlcad | there are probably a half dozen CMS' on the server for various sites/projects |
| 20:02.47 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 20:09.35 | ``Erik | all your cms are belong to me |
| 20:09.44 | ``Erik | move rdbms for great justice! |
| 20:12.28 | ``Erik | now that's interesting |
| 20:12.58 | ``Erik | bu_log() in rt is printing to the xterm where I ran mged instead of to the mged console window |
| 20:17.08 | brlcad | yeah, there's a problem with the I/O redirection that happens early on in ged.c |
| 20:17.40 | brlcad | either an fd that's not closed that should be, or that forked before it's closed, or something similar |
| 20:17.45 | brlcad | i'd not investigated |
| 20:18.34 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548777BF.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 20:32.09 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 20:33.27 | minute | brlcad: Once you finish if you could talk me through the process briefly it would be nice. This is quite a big learning curve for me, I have never actually updated web software because all I ever used was bleeding edge MediaWiki (although a bad idea it was). |
| 20:41.39 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 20:44.57 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@204.244.194.11) | |
| 20:45.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: Timer based progress report on irradiance cache if sigalrm is handy. Also tries to estimate how much time left. PR#1312281. |
| 20:50.28 | ``Erik | wtf, I smell popcnr |
| 20:50.31 | ``Erik | corn |
| 21:01.17 | minute | I think the site is on the right track right now. Tomorrow I will port the skin to mediaWiki (shouldn't be too difficult) then start adding content (I think). Also if you haven't managed to upgrade I will look into that brlcad. |
| 21:01.29 | minute | Apart from them two things we are good to go. |
| 21:02.10 | minute | And on that note I go to bed, goodnight all. |
| 21:09.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (46 files in 14 dirs): TFLOAT changed to tfloat. also quell a few warnings/bugs related to passing the wrong TIE_3 pointer type. |
| 21:10.40 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 21:12.26 | ``Erik | tfloat is a define, I usually make defines all upper so'z I know what I'm looking at... might be better to change tfloat to a typedef (and give it the _t suffix, perhaps) O.o |
| 21:41.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (11 files): libtie update from Justin. these changes are the updates after integration of libtie with MUVES-S2. it includes a few minor api changes as well as a variety of bug fixes and other cleanup. |
| 21:42.47 | brlcad | heh, those commits were made like on thursday .. way to go CIA-4 |
| 21:43.03 | starseeker | Hey Sean - that you? |
| 21:43.45 | starseeker | Question on the ITCL and ITK libraries |
| 21:43.47 | brlcad | minute: cool, sounds good -- i'll let you know what the upgrade steps where and thanks again for all the hard work on the new site.. I think it's going to be so much better, even though this is obviously quite a bit of work :) |
| 21:43.56 | brlcad | starseeker: howdy ... been a while! |
| 21:44.36 | brlcad | ``Erik: as for the tfloatness, yeah, meh .. I do to, but I was in apply-the-patch/upgrade-and-move-on mode |
| 21:44.41 | starseeker | Indeed :-). Looking over the Gentoo brlcad bug, I see folks haven't given up. I'm getting back up to speed. |
| 21:44.56 | brlcad | yeah, there were quite a few developments in that area |
| 21:45.23 | brlcad | I spent several months reworking portions of the code and ultimately ripping out that custom Tk mod that originally made the gentoo integration a royal PITA |
| 21:45.36 | brlcad | now the only thing left should be namespace conflicts |
| 21:45.48 | starseeker | hehe - the "system nukers" |
| 21:46.12 | starseeker | I've been thinking about that - how does brlcad decide the default locations to look for its libraries? |
| 21:48.48 | starseeker | Hmm - looks like the complaint in the latest ebuild attempt is that ITCL_LIBRARY and ITK_LIBRARY need to be set in the users .bashrc file. Is that expected? |
| 21:56.21 | brlcad | it's pretty complicated as there are various tools/libraries looking for different things |
| 21:56.42 | brlcad | mged is particularly complicated in this regard as it rolls everything into one binary, so it has to find almost everything |
| 21:57.48 | brlcad | there's a BRLCAD_ROOT (which folks aren't supposed to set any more) that basically amounts to the installed path that it will search for installed binary resources (like rt) as well as a BRLCAD_DATA path for shared resources (like the tclscripts that establish mged's gui) |
| 21:58.31 | brlcad | on top of that, tcl/tk have their own paths that they search (TCL_LIBRARY, TK_LIBRARY, ITCL_LIBRARY, ITK_LIBRARY, IWIDGETS_LIBRARY) |
| 21:58.33 | starseeker | Is it possible to set a "per-library" install path that would (say) put the conflicting libraries in /usr/lib/brlcad and teach the binaries to look for that particular functionality there? |
| 21:58.58 | brlcad | both brl-cad and tcl/tk have compile-time paths that it knows about, run-time paths, and overrideable paths |
| 22:00.58 | starseeker | Hmm. I saved a report from the last time my system got wiped... |
| 22:01.46 | brlcad | that's all ancient now, it's changed quite a bit wrt tcl/tk |
| 22:02.04 | brlcad | the issue now will probably be that I jumped up to tcl/tk 8.5 which is not yet finalized |
| 22:02.06 | starseeker | Ah. librt, libbu, libregex, libbn, and libtermlib |
| 22:03.51 | starseeker | Gentoo has an ebuild for tcl-8.5-alpha6, but still masked. |
| 22:04.10 | starseeker | tk as well. |
| 22:06.40 | starseeker | I wonder why ITCL_LIBRARY and ITK_LIBRARY aren't getting set in the system. |
| 22:06.51 | starseeker | Maybe the ebuilds for those need work... |
| 22:06.53 | brlcad | you shouldn't need to set any vars, but can to override |
| 22:07.12 | brlcad | it "should" all work from configure/compile-time paths |
| 22:07.34 | starseeker | The latest ebuild has an informational message about setting them, and IIRC I ran into something similar when I tried a manual install. |
| 22:07.41 | starseeker | Let me give it a go with the latest. |
| 22:10.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:11.21 | brlcad | remember to not install into /usr as it'll conflict with various installed or system libs potentially |
| 22:11.33 | brlcad | default is /usr/brlcad |
| 22:11.46 | starseeker | Right :-). Here's what happened last time I tried /usr: http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=109012 |
| 22:13.18 | starseeker | Somebody else actually tried the same thing, with similar results ;-) |
| 22:19.01 | brlcad | i think i even warned about it several times, iirc :) |
| 22:19.21 | starseeker | hehe - probably |
| 22:24.16 | starseeker | Ah - done. |
| 22:26.43 | starseeker | Excellent. Manual compile and install succeeded flawlessly |
| 22:26.53 | starseeker | Very nice work! |
| 22:29.18 | starseeker | OK, there is a real chance that most recent ebuild will actually work. |
| 23:11.08 | starseeker | ln: accessing `/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2Tk_Alloc3DBorderFromObj.3': No such file or directory |
| 23:11.15 | starseeker | Nuts - so close |
| 23:18.28 | brlcad | hm, it reported an hour and it didn't take an hour? |
| 23:19.24 | brlcad | minor minor issue to say the least, but I've yet to hear a report of that being wrong in years* |
| 23:20.13 | brlcad | yeah, looks like a trailing slash is missing there on that ln before "Tk" for that header |
| 23:24.54 | starseeker | brlcad: I'll try the manual build again and see if it's wrong a second time |
| 23:27.12 | brlcad | yeah, I'd start with a vanilla manual install into /usr/brlcad and make sure it at least works on your system (both with --enable-all and without), then try a make distcheck |
| 23:27.41 | brlcad | if those three work, then move on to the portage build since then it "should" just be ebuild configuration/settings |
| 23:30.28 | starseeker | OK |
| 23:38.11 | starseeker | Redoing manual with enable-all |
| 23:42.50 | starseeker | If I understand the "auto" target correctly, I can trust it to check for a system library and if it finds (for whatever reason) that it can't use it it will fall back to the internal version? |
| 23:45.08 | starseeker | That poses an interesting problem. Theoretically, what we would really want the ebuild to do would be to require tcl, tk, etc. if and only if the version installable by portage could (in theory) support brlcad. Otherwise the build of the system version would be known to be a waste of time in advance. |
| 23:46.22 | starseeker | BUT - we don't want the build to stop for a failed dependency, because at that point BRL-CAD can take over. |
| 00:06.09 | starseeker | Huh - it got the compilation time right this time. |
| 00:20.48 | starseeker | GOT IT |
| 00:20.54 | starseeker | I know why it's messing up. |
| 00:21.44 | starseeker | In the portage ebuild sytem, ${S} is set to the source directory - in this case, /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2 |
| 00:22.57 | starseeker | Unfortunately, src/other/tcl/unix/installManPage is also using $S |
| 00:23.28 | starseeker | test -z "$S" && S="$DIR/" |
| 00:24.00 | starseeker | MANPAGE=$1 |
| 00:24.00 | starseeker | echo $MANPAGE |
| 00:24.00 | starseeker | DIR=$2 |
| 00:24.00 | starseeker | echo $DIR |
| 00:24.00 | starseeker | test -z "$S" && S="$DIR/" |
| 00:24.00 | starseeker | echo $S |
| 00:24.11 | starseeker | /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/unix/../doc/CrtCommand.3 |
| 00:24.11 | starseeker | /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/image//usr/share/man/man3 |
| 00:24.11 | starseeker | /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2 |
| 00:25.00 | starseeker | Because we didn't supply an -s option to the script, $S should be empty and $DIR/ should be in $S. Thanks to portage however, $S is not empty. |
| 00:34.05 | starseeker | DOH - I should have checked the patches in the latest ebuild. Nice to know I had the right idea, but someone already found it. |
| 00:35.22 | brlcad | yeah, that's how auto works -- and the --enable-all option effectively says "just use only internal versions" |
| 00:36.02 | brlcad | for the ebuild, you'd probably want to --disable-[insert various here] or even --disable all and make them all ebuild deps |
| 00:37.04 | starseeker | That's the "purist" approach that people have favored, but in a case where brlcad would succeed if it used its internal versions it would be a shame to have it die |
| 00:37.09 | brlcad | otherwise it should also work if you make them all deps, and just let auto do what it does, it should turn them all off if it detects the installed deps correctly, which it really should |
| 00:38.13 | starseeker | That's an idea. I just hate to compile tk8.4 when I know it won't do it ;-) |
| 00:40.02 | brlcad | the build is consistent, if it compiles a dep then it's going to link against it and install it |
| 00:40.34 | starseeker | OK. So the presence of an 8.4 version won't bother it if the deps have gentoo install it? |
| 00:41.34 | brlcad | well tk8.4 as a dep would be wrong :) |
| 00:42.06 | starseeker | If I tell it 8.5 it will die complaining about masked packages |
| 00:42.11 | starseeker | or unfound deps |
| 00:42.12 | brlcad | and no, it wouldn't bother it -- it'd just fail the tk usability test and build the 8.5a6 version |
| 00:42.22 | starseeker | which would be correct. OK. |
| 00:42.39 | brlcad | yeah, like I said .. 8.5 is a pita until it goes final |
| 00:42.45 | brlcad | which is "any day now" |
| 00:42.51 | starseeker | hehe |
| 00:42.52 | brlcad | though it's been that way for weeks |
| 00:42.56 | brlcad | s/weeks/months/ |
| 00:43.03 | starseeker | Like watching the stix fonts |
| 00:43.17 | starseeker | They were "almost done" back in April, if memory serves |
| 00:44.34 | brlcad | yeah, issues came up in a5 though, so now a6 |
| 00:44.42 | brlcad | haven't heard if a6 had any major issues |
| 00:46.05 | starseeker | Collision with portage ;-) |
| 00:48.26 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:49.29 | brlcad | not entirely fair as they overlapped .5 releases with new .4 releases for several of those years :) |
| 00:50.16 | ``Erik | hehehe true... :D |
| 00:50.27 | brlcad | more akin to 2.1 kernel and 2.0 development, by that same metric kernel is horribly slow cycles |
| 00:50.59 | ``Erik | leenewx kernel development is awfully disorganized |
| 00:51.30 | ``Erik | fbsd runs 3 release trees right now with a pretty decent cycle *shrug* |
| 00:52.10 | starseeker | I guess the next step for ebuild development is to convince the devs to allow the "auto" setting to optionally build the internal versions, and let brlcad have the /usr/brlcad directory with symlinks for some of the key binaries. |
| 02:05.50 | louipc | yeah it's a tough case to get all src/other/ pkgs seperate from brlcad, well I've had trouble with the itcl/itk, iwidgets |
| 02:06.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved photon map irradiance progress reporting |
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| 08:48.30 | brlcad | heh, speaking of tcl/tk release schedules, it looks like they're finally leaving alpha |
| 08:48.52 | brlcad | they just tagged 8.5b1 |
| 08:49.11 | brlcad | not yet posted |
| 08:49.18 | Laniakea | brlcad: do you think it would be possible to adjust the 10.0 brlcad to work also on OpenBSD 4.0? (4.1 is the latest) |
| 08:49.25 | Laniakea | there's some problem with the tcl/tk |
| 08:49.31 | Laniakea | or itcl or something like that |
| 08:50.23 | brlcad | Laniakea: if you give me a shell, I can see if I can sort that build out -- otherwise I can't reproduce it and from what I read between you and erik, he couldn't either |
| 08:50.55 | Laniakea | brlcad: do you need a rootshell? |
| 08:51.01 | brlcad | nope |
| 08:51.21 | Laniakea | But you need X Server connection? |
| 08:51.52 | brlcad | not really |
| 08:51.56 | Laniakea | I am currently behind a NAT |
| 08:52.09 | Laniakea | but I could give you shell when I get my cable modem delivered |
| 08:52.16 | brlcad | i just need a shell connection, presuming you already have compilation tools installed |
| 08:52.32 | Laniakea | yes already installed |
| 08:52.40 | brlcad | i can do everything I need over ssh |
| 08:52.42 | Laniakea | we made it to compile, but mged didn't start up |
| 08:52.50 | Laniakea | you can use ssh -Y if you need X connection |
| 08:53.03 | Laniakea | do you have IPv6? |
| 08:53.08 | brlcad | which is why I said I can do everything I need over ssh ;) |
| 08:53.25 | Laniakea | that's what I meant so I make sure it's allowed in sshd config |
| 08:53.42 | brlcad | yeah |
| 08:53.54 | Laniakea | I should just make sure my gay porn collections are not visible so you cannot figure out I am gay and then threaten me to tell my mother, lol :) |
| 08:54.01 | brlcad | cvs client would help too |
| 08:54.07 | Laniakea | I have both cvs and svn |
| 08:54.18 | Laniakea | Do you have IPv6? |
| 08:54.21 | brlcad | i don't have time to care about your pr0n collections |
| 08:54.23 | brlcad | yeah |
| 08:54.32 | Laniakea | which broker? |
| 08:54.37 | Laniakea | Or do you have real ipv6? |
| 08:54.44 | brlcad | real |
| 08:55.28 | brlcad | not sure it's configured end to end appropriately, but it's good on my end |
| 08:55.50 | brlcad | though not sure why that should matter .. |
| 08:56.08 | Laniakea | Cause I could try to figure out ipv6 connection then you could connect already today |
| 08:56.15 | Laniakea | since I don't have Internet at home only at work |
| 08:56.26 | Laniakea | and I cannot ask for a tunnel since that's not for work |
| 09:02.28 | brlcad | well, whatever works for you -- if you get it to the point that I can "ssh -v user@somehostofyours" I can take it from there, otherwise I'll look at the build log but it really is hard (i.e. exceptionally time consuming) to go back and forth on build failures, tweak settings, rebuild, test, repeat, etc |
| 09:02.56 | Laniakea | yes ssh is better |
| 09:03.00 | Laniakea | I don't have problem with ssh |
| 09:03.02 | brlcad | i'll also do the latter, but i get impatient |
| 10:05.09 | Laniakea | Do you think it would be possible to use fluid bearings in skateboard instead of ball bearings? |
| 13:34.40 | ``Erik | itcl/itk and iwidgets work with tcl85, but don't officially support it (e.g. 'make test' fails due to changes in error message phrasing) |
| 13:39.34 | ``Erik | shoot, that upgrade broke my parallels install and I left the cd at home :/ |
| 14:01.40 | ``Erik | http://www.xkcd.com/ |
| 14:01.41 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 14:49.47 | brlcad | hm, what init.d item handles rpc under linux? |
| 14:51.49 | brlcad | getting "Cannot register service: RPC: Unable to receive; errno = Connection refused" |
| 14:55.07 | ``Erik | ummmmm portmap? |
| 14:55.08 | brlcad | there it be, portmapper |
| 14:55.21 | brlcad | never can remember that thing |
| 14:55.26 | ``Erik | and different linux breeds use different names :( |
| 14:55.32 | brlcad | that's why |
| 14:56.57 | ``Erik | http://weblogs.java.net/blog/kirillcool/archive/2005/02/how_to_create_y.html |
| 14:56.59 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 14:57.04 | ``Erik | java, but an amusing notion |
| 15:54.51 | minute | Basic MediaWiki brlcad skin up, but the site doesn't actually do anything when it is switched on. I have a headache and need to get away from this for a couple of hours. Be back then with more ideas etc. |
| 16:07.59 | Maloeran | So Erik, you really deserted us the Efnet #opengl old timers in #siggraph? :) |
| 16:09.17 | Maloeran | Even if we probably should have stayed in #opengl with our off-topic discussions long ago |
| 16:23.10 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:23.18 | ``Erik | I've been banned from siggraph for quite a while |
| 16:23.24 | ``Erik | and have tried to get people to unban me O.o |
| 16:24.28 | ``Erik | pre-marraige celebration? woohoo, body shots off of strippers! |
| 16:42.22 | Maloeran | No, not that kind of celebration :). It would have been the real marriage but we under-estimated the delays involved in the paperwork and bureaucracy |
| 16:47.46 | Maloeran | There doesn't seem to be any ban in #siggraph, I think it's unlikely that any bot would have got you on auto-ban |
| 18:03.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:45.43 | ``Erik | wow debs are a royal pain to make. |
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| 04:56.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: good grief, tone down the exclamation marks |
| 05:10.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/edsol.c): report selected vertex/edge values using the current local coordinates instead of in millimeters when editing BoTs. this fixes sf bug #1784781 reported by dwayne as 'BOT units mm' |
| 06:31.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/librt/mirror.c): implement mirroring of BoT primitives, the code was just never written for that primitive. this implements dwayne's sf request 1784787 (BOT primitives will not mirror). |
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| 21:15.58 | poolio | ughh. my laptop died :'( |
| 21:19.06 | louipc | my condolences |
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| 21:24.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac misc/Makefile.am sh/make_deb.sh): completely untested guts of debian package building |
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| 22:25.38 | yukonbob | good day, cadders |
| 22:32.03 | brlcad | howdy bob |
| 22:58.23 | yukonbob | what's shaking brlcad |
| 23:00.10 | brlcad | ahh, fun |
| 23:00.24 | brlcad | not much for me at the moment, about to ponder dinner :) |
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| 02:18.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: |
| 02:18.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: dbconcat command was not insuring unique names if neither the -s nor the -p |
| 02:18.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: options were used. Now adds suffix as needed (-s) by default. This fixes |
| 02:18.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bug #1708349 "database corruption in mged 7.8.4". |
| 04:06.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:06.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: john fixed a database corruption bug caused during dbconcat. dbconcat command |
| 04:06.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: was not insuring unique names if neither the -s nor the -p options were used. |
| 04:06.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Now adds suffix as needed (-s) by default. This fixed bug #1708349 'database |
| 04:06.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: corruption in mged 7.8.4'. shibby sweet. |
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| 12:48.57 | fleeky | hello |
| 12:49.21 | fleeky | ive recently become interested in csg modelling techniques and was wondering if brlcad is the best choice or not |
| 12:49.39 | fleeky | basically im looking for something that acts much like a normal modelling program but for csg objects instead of vertice |
| 12:49.59 | fleeky | so you can select a group of csg objects .. duplicate them rotate / scale / move them |
| 12:50.11 | fleeky | change there csg ops |
| 12:50.13 | fleeky | etc |
| 12:50.29 | fleeky | i kindof momentarily checked out brl but was a bit daunted at first |
| 12:52.05 | clock_ | fleeky: yes then brl-cad is suitable |
| 12:52.07 | fleeky | also the reason im interested is i am currently developing for a game engine and need a good way to create level geometry .. the game supports obj files as models so basically everything is a model this is nice but creating buildings and such in modelling programs is just not a good idea.. so ive come in search of csg stuff |
| 12:52.16 | brlcad | heh, brl-cad is one of the original CSG modeling systems, it doesn't get much more fundamental |
| 12:52.27 | fleeky | yeah there also really isnt much out there |
| 12:52.53 | fleeky | and things like unrealed , hammer, gtk-radiant are Horribly limiting in terms of the csg modelling you can do |
| 12:53.15 | fleeky | do you guys have link that can explain the general workflow of how to model in brl-cad? |
| 12:53.44 | fleeky | i can atleast create a new database document thingy but for instance can it render things in a solid shaded phong lighting type mode? |
| 12:53.46 | brlcad | fleeky: there are a slew of introductory documents on the website, I'd suggest browsing through them one at a time |
| 12:53.54 | fleeky | ah ok thanks |
| 12:53.56 | brlcad | i.e. Documents section on http://brlcad.org |
| 12:54.00 | fleeky | yeah |
| 12:54.01 | brlcad | just go down the list |
| 12:54.06 | fleeky | alrighty then |
| 12:54.10 | clock_ | fleeky: it has even more advanced lighting modes |
| 12:54.13 | brlcad | you'll even get to some of the intro programming aspects |
| 12:54.18 | fleeky | but realtime clock? |
| 12:54.32 | clock_ | you can press "raytrace" and wait a few seconds |
| 12:54.36 | fleeky | nah |
| 12:54.37 | clock_ | not realtime though |
| 12:54.54 | fleeky | so no realtime solid shaded views? |
| 12:55.05 | clock_ | brlcad: I found myself unable to rotate an object - I ended up with typing numerical coordinates into a matrix |
| 12:55.45 | clock_ | brlcad: the help is so unsatisfactory... |
| 12:55.45 | brlcad | there is a high-performance triangle-based ray-trace engine in adrt that would suffice as "realtime", but you're going to be writing the lighting model if you want anything other than basic phong |
| 12:55.45 | fleeky | i just want phong |
| 12:55.46 | fleeky | i dont want to be looking at wireframes all the time |
| 12:56.15 | fleeky | well it helps me to get a better sense of things is all |
| 12:56.25 | clock_ | BRLCAD != doom. It has higher quality of picture. |
| 12:56.35 | fleeky | haha |
| 12:56.37 | fleeky | ofcourse it doesnt |
| 12:56.38 | clock_ | therefore realtime rendering is difficult |
| 12:56.51 | brlcad | depends when/where you're talking about -- the mged tool is the predominant modeling system in brl-cad and that doesn't have an interactive shaded mode -- you primarily visualize via wireframe or ray-tracing |
| 12:56.58 | fleeky | there are realtime csg editors that do solid shading .. too bad they have horrible functionality |
| 12:57.39 | fleeky | is there another tool that will atleast let me see a realtime preview in any kindof solid shaded mode ? |
| 12:57.43 | brlcad | brl-cad's mathematical foundations are also way more extensive than any one of those realtime csg editors |
| 12:57.52 | clock_ | brlcad: means better picture? |
| 12:58.02 | fleeky | yes im sure |
| 12:58.23 | brlcad | if you understand the difference between explicit and implicit geometric representations, it's fairly clear as to why -- there is no interaction surface to display for the evaluated CSG interfaces |
| 12:58.36 | clock_ | brlcad: there was some rotobj primitive where the help said it rotates the object being edited - but it didn't. It rotated everything on the screen. |
| 12:58.51 | brlcad | ray-tracing performs that evaluation efficiently, and preserves the solidity of the object |
| 12:59.00 | fleeky | so basically no there is no tool to do that |
| 12:59.07 | clock_ | brlcad: couldn't this useability be somehow fixed? It's quite slowing down |
| 12:59.12 | brlcad | clock_: means more accurate picture at least, depends what you care about as to whether it's "better" |
| 12:59.39 | brlcad | fleeky: to do what? |
| 12:59.40 | clock_ | brlcad: yes more accurate that's what I mean |
| 13:00.17 | fleeky | basically all i want to do is use a csg editor to create obj geometry .. but with the full functionality of a real csg editor not the limited functionality of bsp style editors |
| 13:00.47 | brlcad | brl-cad's CSG evaluation underpinnings drive actual scientific analyses so it's more important for it to be accurate than have a modeler that looked pretty .. that said, making the editor be more usable is something being worked :) |
| 13:00.54 | clock_ | brlcad: the worst is I do modelling tasks in bursts - say 3 months develop amplifiers, and then I have to make another console for ronja. But I forget all that stuff I learnt before and have to learn a lot of stuff again - because brl-cad is so user-unfriendly |
| 13:01.04 | clock_ | I just need more hints |
| 13:01.47 | fleeky | brlcad what current work is being done ? |
| 13:01.49 | clock_ | help saying instead "rotates object" at least what object it rotates, whether a matrix is considered an object, group an object, in which modes it works and in which not, and what meaning the numbers I type have |
| 13:01.50 | brlcad | fleeky: I'd suggest you at least give it a try as you certainly can certainly get through many of the basics (i.e. go through a few of the exercises in the intro to mged) |
| 13:01.58 | fleeky | cause i ahve a few suggestions in terms of useability .. |
| 13:02.09 | fleeky | yes i will definately do that |
| 13:02.21 | brlcad | clock_: because mged is so user unfriendly, I agree |
| 13:02.24 | fleeky | atleast if nothing better than to get a better understanding of csg editing and what can be improved |
| 13:02.33 | fleeky | thanks again for the help |
| 13:02.40 | clock_ | brlcad: I guess brl-cad was used by specialized professionals who did modeling all the time so they could remember all the details |
| 13:02.42 | fleeky | ill idle here a bit i have to work a bit now though :) |
| 13:02.44 | brlcad | it's meant for use by folks that use it day in and day out, for the most part (for better or worse) |
| 13:02.57 | clock_ | but now since it's out on general public, general public needs more hints to stay in the picture |
| 13:03.09 | clock_ | needs to be more ocassional-user-compliant |
| 13:03.11 | brlcad | of course |
| 13:03.24 | clock_ | which doesn't mean it has to be more annoying for the fulltime specialist |
| 13:03.37 | brlcad | this is all really old topic ;) "fixing" the problem is way more involved than it seems on the surface |
| 13:03.38 | clock_ | I even think it will then help the fulltime specialist make less errors during his work |
| 13:03.52 | clock_ | because he'll notice from the hints if he's going to do an error in his thinking |
| 13:03.57 | brlcad | just to simply "display" an implicit sphere intesected with another sphere.. |
| 13:04.40 | clock_ | brlcad: but I think for the beginning the text files could be ammended - if somewhere is a string saying "rotates the object" it can be changed to "rotates the object, angles given in coordinates (counter-)clockwise" |
| 13:05.03 | clock_ | There's also an issue if the angles are given in the view or in the object coordinate system |
| 13:05.06 | brlcad | it's not a matter of will, desire, or even planning (there is a rather detailed plan forward for fixing the usability problems) .. it's a matter of resources |
| 13:05.12 | brlcad | particularly developer resources |
| 13:05.17 | clock_ | brlcad: aha |
| 13:05.34 | clock_ | brlcad: Bush should cut his Iraq program and assign the resulting money on BRL-CAD |
| 13:06.20 | brlcad | clock_: if you want to fix the documents so that strings such as that are fixed, I'd give you commit access to do so - just let me know :) |
| 13:06.46 | clock_ | brlcad: and do you mind if I ask first which way it is in reality? |
| 13:07.03 | brlcad | which way what is? |
| 13:07.12 | clock_ | well all these ambiguous things |
| 13:07.23 | brlcad | like that statement :) |
| 13:07.31 | brlcad | all these what? |
| 13:08.06 | clock_ | brlcad: all the stuff like whether X Y Z means X Y Z axes or X Y Z planes, if it turns counter- or clockwise, if it's in the view or object coord system... |
| 13:08.39 | brlcad | ah, the consistency of items in mged |
| 13:09.01 | clock_ | brlcad: and is it allowed to make the help items larger? |
| 13:09.07 | clock_ | or do they have to be terse? |
| 13:09.45 | brlcad | well, that's partly because mged is as mged does .. it's a tool that has been developed over the years by several different folks with different skills with respect to usability and consistency but more importantly, it's been developed very minimal fashion ... |
| 13:10.29 | brlcad | someone needed a command that does *blah* and that command is worked with the modeling experts that know mged in and out .. so to them, they just need to know x y z and they already know what that means given the context |
| 13:11.09 | brlcad | because often/generally they asked for it to be that way, and whether what they asked for made it to a label or not was pretty irrelevant for them and the dev that wrote the feature at the time |
| 13:11.35 | brlcad | clock_: they can be larger, terse and clear is good but informative is best |
| 13:12.03 | brlcad | i'd ideally think most of those commands as unix command-line commands deserving of entire manual pages that describe their use in some cases |
| 13:12.22 | brlcad | in the new modeling system, they will have full pages per commands (and be actual stand-alone commands) |
| 13:13.25 | brlcad | for now, I gotta run .. big presentation, brl-cad goodness to report |
| 13:14.26 | clock_ | brlcad: man is OK that's easy to show on the screen |
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| 15:16.27 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:17.27 | F_squirty | o.O |
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| 15:48.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: |
| 15:48.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Oops! lost the prefix on the last commit. Now adds the optional prefix before |
| 15:48.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: building a unique name for the dbconcat command. |
| 15:54.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/debian/ (11 files): more debianage |
| 16:00.14 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Will the site ever expand to have multiple copies in each language? |
| 16:05.34 | MinuteElectron | Doesn't matter, I have future proofed it anyway. |
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| 16:23.21 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: The wiki and Drupal is officially good to go! |
| 16:23.34 | MinuteElectron | Just minor modifications left, but it is now in a usable state. |
| 16:23.44 | MinuteElectron | Well, more usable than before at least. |
| 16:54.05 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I'd like to think that it will/should |
| 16:54.26 | MinuteElectron | will/should what? |
| 16:54.30 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: have you looked at the site under IE with javascript disabled yet? :) |
| 16:54.38 | MinuteElectron | Not yet... |
| 16:54.43 | MinuteElectron | Maybe later, I gotta run now. |
| 16:54.59 | MinuteElectron | Bye. |
| 16:55.03 | brlcad | that's unfortunately a pretty common configuration for our audience (i.e. just about anyone on a govt machine) |
| 16:55.17 | brlcad | will/should wrt multiple languages |
| 16:55.34 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 16:55.37 | MinuteElectron | will do later |
| 16:55.39 | MinuteElectron | bye for now |
| 16:55.40 | brlcad | i'd hope we get to the point of having multiple |
| 16:55.42 | brlcad | cya MinuteElectron |
| 16:55.44 | brlcad | thanks again |
| 16:55.47 | brlcad | great work1 |
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| 18:18.17 | brlcad | you gpl'd debian build files?? :) |
| 18:24.53 | ``Erik | heh, that's how they come out of debmake |
| 18:25.48 | ``Erik | and there's some serious breakage on debian that looks just like what was reported on ubuntu due to libtool abuse, so I'm busy fixing that shtuff... |
| 18:25.52 | ``Erik | feels like I fixed it before :/ |
| 18:26.16 | brlcad | so does COPYING out of automake, but that don't make it good :) |
| 18:27.47 | ``Erik | since debmake is gpl'd and it put the gpl stamp on the files, they may've already been under the gpl *shrug* and it doesn't negatively influence us, I don't think? |
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| 19:48.48 | yukonbob | afternoon, cadders |
| 19:53.40 | MinuteElectron | hey |
| 19:53.42 | MinuteElectron | my parents suck |
| 19:54.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (46 files in 46 dirs): add link dependancy information to shared libraries and reduce redundancy |
| 19:57.17 | ``Erik | now to start the trek to see if that fixes all the issues on debian/ubuntu *sigh* |
| 19:57.26 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Any ideas where I can start regarding transfering content to the wiki\Drupal? Or should I wait till tomorrow to do that, or should I do it at all? |
| 20:07.42 | yukonbob | Reduction of Redundancy Reducer |
| 20:13.32 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I'd just wait till tomorrow |
| 20:13.34 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 20:14.08 | brlcad | the place to start will probably be just pulling from docs already included in the source distribution and on the old/current website |
| 20:14.14 | brlcad | and go from there |
| 20:14.24 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 20:17.13 | brlcad | tomorrow for you, of course ;) |
| 20:17.23 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 20:34.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (6 files): eliminate complex.h |
| 20:42.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (7 files): eliminate complex.h |
| 21:05.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 3 dirs): migrated the contents of src/librt/plane.r to include/bn.h |
| 21:05.40 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What license is the documentation in CVS under? |
| 21:06.20 | MinuteElectron | Can I just copy and paste it, or do I need to give attribution? |
| 21:07.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: complex.h's have been eliminated and plane.h has been assimilated into bn.h |
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| 13:30.28 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Do you have a poll I can put on the website, I am adding a proper one as the poll that was originally there was temporary. |
| 14:00.34 | fleeky-circus | is it possible to do union / difference / intersection stuff in archer? |
| 14:35.22 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Are you wanting all the PDFs to be converted to wiki. |
| 14:35.29 | MinuteElectron | s/./? |
| 17:50.19 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: i added a better poll |
| 17:50.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: update the full description section so it reads better, shorten the first paragraph, include history, and mention mike. add a 2000-char long description section too. |
| 17:50.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: update the long description |
| 17:51.07 | brlcad | er, not better .. just "a poll", since there wasn't one :) |
| 17:52.05 | brlcad | i wouldn't work on converting the pdf's just yet -- I'd just link to them and refer to them as "books" that folks can download |
| 17:52.12 | brlcad | (not drupal books, just "books") |
| 17:52.25 | brlcad | as they were actually published books |
| 17:53.08 | brlcad | i mean if you want to convert them, that'd be great, but it's a project all in itself as I'm wanting to get them to docbook format so that html and pdf forms can be auto-generated |
| 17:53.58 | brlcad | as for the license, some of the docs are public domain, some are bsd documentation licensed |
| 17:54.56 | brlcad | fleeky: i believe so, but it expects you to already know the mged interface -- if you turn on the advanced interface so you can get the console, I know you can type the mged editing commands that let you perform the CSG -- not sure about the gui |
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| 18:01.34 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Cool. |
| 18:04.16 | MinuteElectron | Funnily some things on the site fix themselves and others destory them. |
| 18:04.59 | brlcad | howso? |
| 18:05.35 | brlcad | fyi, i fixed the poll preview background .. it was white, added a #content .content that fixed it |
| 18:05.54 | MinuteElectron | The footer didn't work properly yesterday, now it does. The navigation bar didn't stretch all the way across the screen the other day now, for some reason, it does. |
| 18:06.04 | MinuteElectron | in IE that is (the stretching) |
| 18:06.13 | brlcad | i noticed that the footer in IE didn't work for me |
| 18:06.27 | brlcad | unless you manually grab the window |
| 18:06.42 | brlcad | you could see the 1px flutter, but it didn't move the footer |
| 18:06.51 | MinuteElectron | It seams to work now. |
| 18:06.56 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:07.37 | brlcad | what's wierd is that it really shouldn't be needed I'd think .. it "should" work just as the last content item with a 100% width |
| 18:08.06 | brlcad | instead of being basically "early" content that is placed at the end |
| 18:08.36 | brlcad | good for now at least, though it would be nice to remove that hack |
| 18:08.41 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 18:09.46 | brlcad | i deleted that other user .. hopefully not someone in here |
| 18:10.10 | brlcad | bah, HD is full, can't allocate enough for the VM at the moment to check IE |
| 18:10.18 | MinuteElectron | ouch |
| 18:12.31 | MinuteElectron | Would it be an idea to upload the pdf's to the wiki as a temporary measure then link from the wiki to the pdfs uplaoded to the wiki instead of it being an external link. The current locations could be redirected to the locations on the wiki. |
| 18:13.40 | brlcad | sounds like a great idea |
| 18:13.44 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 18:14.35 | brlcad | the Doc link could probably go straight to a wiki page that lists all the docs |
| 18:14.45 | brlcad | with a page per doc or something |
| 18:14.57 | MinuteElectron | It currently does if I am understanding you correctly. |
| 18:15.08 | brlcad | ah, so it does |
| 18:16.10 | brlcad | i'm working on the drupal upgrade now, then i'll try to unify drupal/mediawiki user db's |
| 18:16.32 | MinuteElectron | No LDAP? |
| 18:16.48 | brlcad | that's one way to unify them ;) |
| 18:16.58 | MinuteElectron | Oh, right. I see. |
| 18:16.59 | brlcad | i'm going to try |
| 18:23.45 | MinuteElectron | cool |
| 18:24.38 | brlcad | eep, You don't have permission to access /d/admin/logs/updates/settings on this server. |
| 18:26.09 | MinuteElectron | Oh, you can only do that with the root account afaik. |
| 18:26.23 | MinuteElectron | Which is my account unfourtunatley, and there is only one root account. |
| 18:26.43 | MinuteElectron | s/is only/can only be/ |
| 18:28.34 | MinuteElectron | What needs doing? |
| 18:28.35 | brlcad | that's fairly odd, drupal would normally say that in the result |
| 18:28.39 | MinuteElectron | oh |
| 18:28.44 | MinuteElectron | *shrug* |
| 18:28.47 | MinuteElectron | are you logged in? |
| 18:29.38 | brlcad | yep |
| 18:29.58 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 18:30.00 | MinuteElectron | odd |
| 18:31.11 | MinuteElectron | brb |
| 18:39.37 | MinuteElectron | backlk |
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| 18:57.06 | louipc | .hiub /3\ |
| 19:44.32 | fleeky | question : i heard that it was planned to make a more user-friendly (idiot proof) ui for brl-cad is anyone working/planning on that in here ? |
| 19:49.54 | brlcad | there has been quite a bit of work in that area, but mostly on the low-level areas that need to change for supporting a new ui |
| 19:50.15 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: PDF indication: icon or text? |
| 19:50.28 | brlcad | icon |
| 19:50.32 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 19:50.40 | brlcad | :) |
| 19:51.52 | brlcad | fleeky: if you're a dev, you're more than welcome to jump in on the fun ;) it's pretty well understood the limitations of mged and even the improved archer interface |
| 19:52.57 | brlcad | it's more a matter of having enough developer manpower going into the (various) efforts needed, else just waiting for it to happen as it gets worked |
| 21:02.17 | MinuteElectron | ouch, an 18.6MB pdf being uploaded by http. |
| 21:04.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Should I upload the example program to the wiki, install a syntax highlighter and paste the source code to a page, or just link to the curent location. Or a combination of the three, personally I would do 1 and 2 - but that is just me. |
| 21:31.43 | brlcad | wouldn't think we'd want to link to anything in the current location if we can get away with it |
| 21:32.00 | MinuteElectron | Ok, makes sense. |
| 21:32.09 | brlcad | importing into the wiki with syntax highlighting would probably look the best |
| 21:32.42 | MinuteElectron | What about the newdb documentation, would be very tedious to import in the wiki (if you want that) and is also very big. |
| 21:37.22 | brlcad | I'll deal with that one, it needs other work |
| 21:42.45 | poolio | allo |
| 21:43.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: ok |
| 21:47.29 | brlcad | howdy poolio, how's it going? |
| 21:51.33 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Once it is ready to go 'live' will the site be moved to brlcad.org or will it forever remain as my.brlcad.org? If the former then something must be done regarding doxygen I think. |
| 21:59.02 | poolio | brlcad: ok except the death of my laptop. i'm thinking of starting up a robotics / genetic algorithms project here :) |
| 22:14.58 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:15.22 | brlcad | doxygen stuff will completey chane |
| 22:15.40 | brlcad | s/chane/change/ |
| 22:15.43 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 22:18.21 | brlcad | poolio: cool, sounds like fun :) |
| 22:19.27 | louipc | ooh robotics |
| 22:21.33 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What about the ARL reports? |
| 22:24.40 | poolio | Yeah, I'm thinking applying GAs to evolution of a proper / speedy gait. Maybe having robots develop a new gate when they're injured/modified/placed in certain circumstances. |
| 22:25.50 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: what about them? |
| 22:26.04 | MinuteElectron | where will they be moved? |
| 22:26.31 | brlcad | I have probably 30-50 reports that relate to brl-cad that are going to go into a publications section somewhere on the site |
| 22:26.39 | MinuteElectron | ok. |
| 22:26.44 | MinuteElectron | sounds good |
| 22:27.08 | brlcad | the three that are up there were just three that a few folks specifically asked for |
| 22:27.22 | MinuteElectron | Oh, right. |
| 22:28.13 | brlcad | drupal's probably more appropriate for them as they're fixed published documents, but the formats vary wildly and I'll need to clean them up some |
| 22:28.56 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 22:29.10 | MinuteElectron | crickey, a 20MB pdf. |
| 22:34.46 | brlcad | should be |
| 22:35.13 | brlcad | php upload max is set at 128MB |
| 22:35.31 | MinuteElectron | Cool. |
| 22:36.14 | brlcad | don't see a mediawiki limit in the settings file, so whatever the default is |
| 22:37.04 | minute | There is no limit IIRC, we once had a discussion regarding it I think (in one of the mediawiki forums\malinglists\irc channls. |
| 22:38.42 | brlcad | which 20MB pdf are you referring to? don't do anything with the An_Overview one.. |
| 22:39.13 | minute | user group presentations |
| 22:39.21 | brlcad | aah |
| 22:39.22 | brlcad | heh, yeah |
| 22:40.36 | minute | Everything downloaded, now for upload. |
| 22:59.45 | minute | I am too tired to upload these files. Once this one uploads /me is going to sleep. |
| 23:22.34 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:23.28 | brlcad | nice progress, though .. |
| 23:23.58 | brlcad | as soon as the user db's are unified, it could probably go live at this point, even as new data gets added |
| 23:25.43 | minute | cool, thanks. |
| 23:26.48 | minute | Goodnight. |
| 23:34.52 | brlcad | cya minute |
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| 10:00.38 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Everything on the site except the few html things have been moved to the wiki. |
| 10:31.20 | MinuteElectron | I set up the gallery module, but I am not sure it works exactly as I expected. |
| 10:31.57 | MinuteElectron | So everything has been moved AFAICS. |
| 10:34.18 | MinuteElectron | I guess my work is done, for now. When you get back can you identify antyhing else regarding the website that needs doing before it can be moded over, |
| 10:34.21 | MinuteElectron | Thanks. |
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| 11:10.12 | fleeky | hi |
| 11:10.39 | fleeky | brlcad although i am not a coder i might be able to get interested some coders to work on the interface |
| 11:11.19 | fleeky | do you have any documentation as to the code for the interface and also the fundamental problems that need to be addressed before further stuff can be changed? |
| 11:11.46 | fleeky | anything kindof info like this i might be able to pass on to my coder friends to see if they wouldnt mind tackling a few problems |
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| 14:24.27 | ``Erik | hm, png 1.2.20 came out |
| 14:28.32 | brlcad | yeah, a few days ago .. but it's just code-cosmetic according to their release notes |
| 14:29.37 | ``Erik | freshmeat blurb says the asm was removed |
| 14:35.20 | brlcad | fleeky: i'll see if I can find the pointers to some documentation, though some of the fundamental issues are thinly documented as they are long-standing problems that can be summarized fairly quickly |
| 14:37.13 | brlcad | amount to fininishing the implementation of spline surface breps, finishing the implicit-to-brep conversion hooks for each primitive, implementing brep csg evaluation, then implementing brep-to-faceets |
| 14:43.13 | brlcad | that's pretty much it in a statement, those four steps are needed in order to just display implicit geometry in an explicit format (for petty lil things like displaying via opengl) with anything other than simplified wireframes |
| 15:24.35 | fleeky | i dont know if i can find programmers to fix problems like that .. but i might be able to find some people that will work on the interface |
| 15:24.42 | fleeky | does it matter if the code is c or c++ ? |
| 15:24.48 | fleeky | can it be both ? |
| 15:26.19 | brlcad | the new interface is intently going to be primarily c++ |
| 15:26.37 | brlcad | so yeah, both |
| 15:27.36 | brlcad | there's also work that can go into the interface independently, so yeah there's still plenty to be done that they could probably help out with if they don't have a solid geometry or graphics background |
| 15:33.59 | fleeky | ahk |
| 15:34.35 | fleeky | well if you get some info together i will try to pass it on to someoen who will work on it |
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| 20:01.51 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I guess my work is done, for now. When you get back can you identify antyhing else regarding the website that needs doing before it can be moded over, |
| 20:01.59 | MinuteElectron | thanks. |
| 20:03.35 | brlcad | thank you, this is really great progress |
| 20:04.41 | MinuteElectron | s/moded/moved |
| 20:04.51 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: my pleasure |
| 20:05.47 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 21:18.20 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Website |
| 21:21.18 | louipc | there's something funky looking in firefox |
| 21:21.49 | louipc | top menu (support, development, documentation) is all bunched together |
| 21:30.01 | louipc | right above the top search box: http://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.jpg |
| 21:40.10 | brlcad | does the main page look like that too? |
| 21:41.19 | louipc | indeed |
| 22:00.05 | brlcad | hm, something wrong with the css then, or something wrong with that version of firefox |
| 22:00.25 | ``Erik | doesn't look like that for my firefox |
| 22:00.32 | ``Erik | but when I bump the text size up, it starts looking bad |
| 22:00.48 | ``Erik | <-- 2.0.0.6 mac |
| 22:03.45 | louipc | i have 2.0.0.6 linux |
| 22:05.24 | brlcad | issues resizing larger is expected, the menubar doesn't presently expand vertically |
| 22:13.17 | brlcad | louipc: how does the footer look for you? |
| 22:14.57 | louipc | looks ok but I don't get the rounded edge at the bottom of search area |
| 22:15.25 | louipc | yeah looks like some css incompatibilities |
| 01:45.35 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 02:49.31 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871463.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:50.22 | IriX64 | louipc: www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc.png |
| 02:50.35 | IriX64 | err http:// :) |
| 03:04.57 | louipc | what's that? |
| 03:35.37 | IriX64 | a photon mapped havoc |
| 06:11.23 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 06:27.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What do you mean by 'login panel' - I thought I did do that already. Replaced the box with a link. |
| 06:29.55 | MinuteElectron | louipc: It seams like you are missing a large part of the CSS, the tabs are in the wrong place. The sidebar shouldn't have borders etc. Can you try doing a forced clear of your Firefox cache Ctrl+Shift+R? |
| 06:30.42 | MinuteElectron | To me it looks as if the HTML modifications have come to your browser, but the CSS ones haven't - a sure sign of caching. |
| 06:41.09 | MinuteElectron | Later all. |
| 10:11.02 | louipc | cool it works now |
| 11:16.03 | *** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) | |
| 11:16.04 | fleeky | hi |
| 11:49.12 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-094-217.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 12:39.35 | fleeky | is the bulk of the new interface work being done on archer or mged or both ? or neither ? if neither whats it being done on ? |
| 13:03.42 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877B59.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:31.51 | *** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) | |
| 14:34.16 | fleeky | hi hi |
| 14:40.05 | brlcad | neither, new tool will leverage a ton of stuff that mged has/does, but the code is fresh (mged is a c/tcl hybrid, archer is a pure tcl/itcl rewrite) |
| 14:40.24 | fleeky | ah ok so it will be a whole new thing |
| 14:40.42 | fleeky | good to know .. and its still in the planning stage right ? |
| 14:41.17 | MinuteElectron | 07:27 < MinuteElectron> brlcad: What do you mean by 'login panel' - I thought I did do that already. Replaced the box with a link. |
| 14:43.25 | brlcad | fleeky: it's a constant and evolving planning stage .. lots of code has been written that support it but almost entirely on the backend/engine side of things |
| 14:44.20 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: i know, it's better .. something about the panel still bothers me on the main page, though |
| 14:44.24 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 14:44.50 | brlcad | certainly a minor issue, and maybe a "after moved" issue instead of before |
| 14:44.55 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 14:45.00 | fleeky | ahk |
| 14:49.29 | brlcad | so that was entirely a cache issue with louipc? great |
| 14:50.10 | MinuteElectron | Yep, and I fixed the header in IE! |
| 14:50.24 | MinuteElectron | Simply needed a width: so it didn't deault to 100%. |
| 14:51.05 | brlcad | backups are running smoothly (again), both full server sync and database dumps, and now with better rotations on db and user logs too so backups won't take so long |
| 14:51.14 | brlcad | cool |
| 14:51.19 | MinuteElectron | nice |
| 14:51.38 | fleeky | brlcad do you have that link to any info on documentation for writing an interface? |
| 14:51.49 | brlcad | wonder how much we care about IE5Mac :) |
| 14:51.53 | MinuteElectron | hehe |
| 14:51.55 | brlcad | it's totally hosed there |
| 14:51.59 | MinuteElectron | ouch |
| 14:52.25 | fleeky | test what ? |
| 14:52.31 | MinuteElectron | The website. |
| 14:52.36 | fleeky | link pls :) |
| 14:52.37 | brlcad | basically none of the pngs, and the layout is jacked |
| 14:52.46 | MinuteElectron | eee |
| 14:52.52 | MinuteElectron | fleeky: http://my.brlcad.org/ |
| 14:52.58 | MinuteElectron | Not done yet mind you. |
| 14:53.13 | fleeky | ofcourse |
| 14:53.19 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What is this 'Heavy load response' you are talking about? |
| 14:53.28 | MinuteElectron | I can't find any info on the drupal website regarding it. |
| 14:53.42 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/ie5crap.png |
| 14:54.06 | brlcad | notice the various scrollbars too :) |
| 14:54.12 | fleeky | man i cant wait till brl has a decent modeller friendly interface you guys will cry with happiness at the stuff i make :) |
| 14:54.15 | ``Erik | brlcad: is there a working NX install anywhere handy? |
| 14:54.40 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Ouch, that is bad. |
| 14:54.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: an old one on CAD |
| 14:54.49 | ``Erik | (ie on mac has always been a bit iFruity O.o) |
| 14:54.55 | MinuteElectron | indeed |
| 14:55.02 | brlcad | before it was NX of course |
| 14:55.12 | ``Erik | do you know if there're any big changes with library names, header names, etc? |
| 14:55.28 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yeah, i'm not concerned about ie5mac, but it's good to know it doesn't work there |
| 14:55.31 | ``Erik | if I were to wire the ug-g converter in on that box, would it apply up to nx 5? (do ya'z know?) |
| 14:55.35 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: ok |
| 14:55.44 | brlcad | probably doesn't work on netscape either |
| 14:56.05 | MinuteElectron | Currently netscape uses the Mozilla engine IIRC. |
| 14:56.07 | brlcad | ideally, there'd be some simplified site for the older browsers .. hmm, maybe the pages made for the heavy load response |
| 14:56.26 | MinuteElectron | It is basically just Firefox wrapped in Netscape rubbish. |
| 14:56.30 | fleeky | the site looks really nice in firefox :) |
| 14:56.35 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What is the heavy load response? |
| 14:56.35 | brlcad | i mean like netscape 3 on irix kind of old :) less than 1% audience |
| 14:56.46 | brlcad | it's when the site gets hit really hard |
| 14:56.49 | ``Erik | heh, ns4 gold might still be stumbled across, though |
| 14:57.07 | brlcad | like during a /. reference, hundreds of visitors all of the sudden |
| 14:57.12 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How to set it up? |
| 14:57.22 | brlcad | the site falls back (automatically) to a light version so it can keep responding |
| 14:59.14 | ``Erik | the db and httpd's always seem to chew a nontrivial amount of cpu, and there're one or two unrelated processes doing the same on that poor old box O.o |
| 15:00.02 | brlcad | hmm, MinuteElectron -- the statement on the Site Configuration panel, "The following enabled modules are incompatible with aggressive mode caching and will not function properly: logintoboggan, throttle. |
| 15:00.27 | MinuteElectron | Hmm, ok... |
| 15:00.53 | MinuteElectron | loggintoboggan was to remove the login panel. |
| 15:00.59 | MinuteElectron | Not sure if you still want that or not. |
| 15:01.15 | MinuteElectron | throttle is probably insignificant with a captcha installed so could be removed also |
| 15:01.38 | MinuteElectron | s/remove/rpalce |
| 15:01.53 | brlcad | heh, it's saying logintoboggan is incompatible (meaning it's not working, or at least not fully working) |
| 15:02.05 | brlcad | there should have been a "content-means" to disable the login menu |
| 15:02.17 | MinuteElectron | ok... |
| 15:02.19 | brlcad | the way it lets you add/remove content and blocks to various pages |
| 15:02.29 | MinuteElectron | Oh.. |
| 15:02.58 | brlcad | not that I know specifically where that option is at the moment, this is all slowly coming back to me |
| 15:03.49 | brlcad | aha, http://my.brlcad.org/d/admin/build/block |
| 15:03.55 | brlcad | there's the throttle settings |
| 15:04.34 | brlcad | not sure what that other message means specifically other than obviously saying that the site will either return a cached page or a throttle one |
| 15:05.25 | brlcad | that throttle module just turns off portions of the site too, which might be good enough |
| 15:05.36 | fleeky | has anyone ever made something that could just scale / rotate / move / duplicate / delete primitives and editing of the binary tree mini app? |
| 15:06.26 | fleeky | with just simple hotkeys .. |
| 15:06.31 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: So you don't want logintoboggan and you want the login panel to appear on every page except the main page? |
| 15:06.39 | fleeky | or is it possible to script this into archer or mged ? |
| 15:07.27 | brlcad | fleeky: a few little test/prototype apps have been written over the years that have done pieces of that, though mged does do all of that (and is fully scriptable) |
| 15:07.47 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: what is logintoboggan? |
| 15:08.13 | MinuteElectron | The thing that replaces the login panel with just a link. |
| 15:10.05 | brlcad | nah, keep it .. it has several other nice features (like returning users to the pages they logged in from) |
| 15:10.18 | fleeky | whats the scripting language brlcad |
| 15:10.29 | brlcad | tcl |
| 15:10.31 | brlcad | or shell |
| 15:10.33 | brlcad | or both |
| 15:10.40 | fleeky | so you can do it in the shell ? |
| 15:11.05 | brlcad | mged has a "command mode" where it will run just one command for you, you can wrap that in pretty much any other scripting language |
| 15:11.23 | brlcad | try this, for example: mged -c file.g tops |
| 15:12.18 | fleeky | im in the crappy windows version .. |
| 15:12.23 | brlcad | ah |
| 15:12.24 | fleeky | it just starts |
| 15:12.37 | brlcad | yeah, that's nfg |
| 15:12.42 | fleeky | i would run linux but this macbook pro has some weird formatting crap |
| 15:12.48 | fleeky | nfg ? |
| 15:12.52 | brlcad | that 7.8.4 is "incomplete" in many respsects |
| 15:12.53 | brlcad | ~nfg |
| 15:12.56 | fleeky | ahhh |
| 15:13.04 | fleeky | can i do builds with dev-cpp? |
| 15:13.19 | brlcad | should be able to, but I haven't tried myself |
| 15:13.36 | fleeky | i would have but im not experienced enough with it to make my own .dev file |
| 15:13.44 | brlcad | full compiles via cygwin are a little easier, but may require some option tweaking |
| 15:13.44 | fleeky | which is basically its version of makefiles |
| 15:13.59 | fleeky | damn |
| 15:14.36 | brlcad | there's no full-time windows dev, so the platform doesn't get the love and attention it needs |
| 15:14.47 | fleeky | ah |
| 15:15.01 | brlcad | that windows port was made .. three years ago? |
| 15:15.07 | fleeky | lol |
| 15:15.24 | fleeky | i would attempt to build it .. but it sounds like a headache waiting to happen |
| 15:15.35 | fleeky | also im not very experienced with doing builds in windows |
| 15:16.05 | brlcad | I really should compile up a full rev under msys and replace the installer (as I can get a *complete* build with msys/mingw) .. but I've just been not motivated and way too busy with other tasks |
| 15:16.42 | brlcad | I had a full compile under cygwin before the windows build was ever made in less than a half-hour |
| 15:16.44 | fleeky | so question how hard would it be to make hotkeys that do the following in mged scale/rotate/move/duplicate objects |
| 15:16.56 | brlcad | but then I know what options to feed it and the two or so files I had to edit |
| 15:17.00 | fleeky | and then hotkeys for changing the operation on a given leaf in a tree |
| 15:18.34 | brlcad | mged has a slew of hotkeys already, the issue is more that it's designed to be a modal editor (ala vi/vim/whatever) so you explicitly enter edit mode beforehand and then close with accept/reject actions |
| 15:18.57 | brlcad | so the hotkey would either only work in certain modes, or you'd have to auto enter/exit the mode |
| 15:19.10 | brlcad | probably the prior |
| 15:19.17 | fleeky | what about a hotkey for entering edit mode |
| 15:19.18 | fleeky | ala blender |
| 15:19.36 | brlcad | mm, that already exists, iirc |
| 15:19.57 | fleeky | maybe not in the windows build then hehe |
| 15:20.00 | brlcad | maybe l or i |
| 15:20.46 | fleeky | and there are hotkeys for scale/rotate / move / duplicate ? |
| 15:20.49 | brlcad | it's not just "edit mode" it's edit mode on a particular object |
| 15:21.01 | brlcad | so it starts with object selection in an illumination mode |
| 15:21.06 | fleeky | how much editing can you do on each primitive ? |
| 15:21.35 | fleeky | ur |
| 15:21.40 | fleeky | i guess it depends on the primitive forget it |
| 15:21.59 | fleeky | brl-cad can have mesh objects as leafs in a tree right? |
| 15:22.37 | brlcad | ahh, the hotkeys are o and s for object-edit and solid-edit mode respectively |
| 15:22.49 | brlcad | yes, you can |
| 15:22.49 | ``Erik | technically, but a slew of tools would freak out about them not being solids |
| 15:22.56 | fleeky | ahh |
| 15:23.13 | fleeky | so object edit is editing of the tree and solid edit is of the solid prmitives? |
| 15:23.19 | brlcad | they're called BoTs (bag of triangles) or NMGs for completely generic polygonal surfaces |
| 15:23.31 | ``Erik | all the nmg stuff attempts to verify triangular crap to be completely closed |
| 15:23.37 | brlcad | object edit is applying matrix transforms |
| 15:23.45 | fleeky | oh |
| 15:23.45 | ``Erik | thus the obnoxious runtime of the nmg funcs :D *duck* |
| 15:23.58 | fleeky | so which edit mode actually edits the tree |
| 15:24.08 | brlcad | solid edit is changing primitive values (like making an torus have a bigger inner diameter) |
| 15:24.12 | fleeky | yeah |
| 15:25.02 | fleeky | so there isnt an edit mode for editing the tree then ? |
| 15:25.18 | fleeky | i guess for tree editing you really need some kindof database menu though |
| 15:25.21 | brlcad | yeah, meshes are a royal pita when it comes to verifying and preserving solid geometry, all sorts of bad things can and do happen |
| 15:25.38 | fleeky | so you can see the heirarchy and such and be able to change the operation of each leaf etc.. |
| 15:25.41 | brlcad | what do you mean by editing the tree? |
| 15:25.51 | brlcad | matrix transforms are object edit |
| 15:26.14 | fleeky | i mean changing the tree of csg ops on all the different primitives |
| 15:26.17 | brlcad | that encompasses rotation, scale, moves |
| 15:26.20 | fleeky | i guess thats a comb ? |
| 15:26.42 | brlcad | ah, changing the csg itself .. |
| 15:27.04 | fleeky | btw i really spent a good hour reading through the Dense documentation |
| 15:27.14 | fleeky | but i must admit i was quite daunted :) |
| 15:27.52 | fleeky | it seems like so many things could be made a million times easier with simple things like hotkeys , a solid-shaded visualizer , and a few menus |
| 15:28.06 | brlcad | there's a massive amount of material to cover, it is daunting .. even with a good interface, learning the modeling environment would be daunting |
| 15:28.14 | fleeky | like a database menu that shows the whole csg tree and lets you play with that |
| 15:28.27 | fleeky | nah the modelling philosophy is not that bad |
| 15:28.33 | fleeky | i rather enjoy it actually |
| 15:28.51 | fleeky | but just getting things intoa fluid workflow is completely impossible at this point |
| 15:28.56 | brlcad | it's a good and bad thing .. the engine is all there for the "most" part .. it's fully operational and there's quite a breadth of functionality under that hood, but the interface is noticably jacked for helping you learn/use it |
| 15:29.06 | fleeky | yeah |
| 15:29.07 | fleeky | hehe |
| 15:29.16 | brlcad | it's not fluid until you've basically memorized a lot of stuff |
| 15:29.23 | fleeky | is there any possibility of getting a current build of brlcad for windows btw ? |
| 15:29.26 | brlcad | it does get fluid, but it's a pretty steep learning curve |
| 15:29.32 | fleeky | even if it was just a .dev file i |
| 15:29.35 | fleeky | could compile it myself |
| 15:29.38 | ``Erik | amusingly enough |
| 15:29.52 | ``Erik | I'm updating the cvs tree my winderz box can see with the intent of trying a cyggy b uild |
| 15:29.58 | brlcad | most of the expert brl-cad modelers are just as fluid in brl-cad as they are in other CAD systems for most operations, it's just painful to get to that point |
| 15:30.02 | fleeky | thanks erik .. |
| 15:30.13 | ``Erik | whether or not it'll work is a different dealie |
| 15:30.22 | brlcad | even after you go through ALL of the posted online docs, you're still considered a newbie .. that's just the basics |
| 15:30.27 | fleeky | brlcad well if i can figure out how to script in bash i might do that |
| 15:30.32 | fleeky | yeah |
| 15:30.35 | fleeky | i quickly realized that |
| 15:30.40 | fleeky | as the docs explain ultra simple tasks |
| 15:30.52 | fleeky | i would also like to see what the pros have made with brl-cad |
| 15:31.04 | ``Erik | 'havoc' is a kinda neat model |
| 15:31.06 | fleeky | cause it seems that even if you become fluid in the current app you still wont be able to make anything very complicated very fast |
| 15:31.13 | ``Erik | there's a truck we're trying to get permission to put in the repo |
| 15:31.24 | fleeky | although the possibilities of procedural csg stuff really really interests me |
| 15:31.43 | fleeky | erik if you guys help me out with the interface i will make you some really crazy stuff |
| 15:32.17 | fleeky | http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Highpoly.jpg |
| 15:32.22 | fleeky | i am atleast not a noob at modelling |
| 15:32.25 | fleeky | well poly modelling |
| 15:32.36 | ``Erik | heh, the interface is "expert friendly" and those of us being paid to hack the software aren't allowed to really engage in any big revamping activities on the gui... at least not on paid time :) |
| 15:33.00 | brlcad | fleeky: you have this one in your example geometry folder< http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 15:33.37 | ``Erik | fleeky: cool, how many triangles and how much is bumpmapping? |
| 15:33.47 | fleeky | thats all zbrush triangles |
| 15:33.49 | ``Erik | (looks like bumpmapping, not displacementmapping) |
| 15:33.51 | fleeky | its about 12 million |
| 15:34.03 | fleeky | give or take |
| 15:34.20 | ``Erik | I assume it was decimated for the gmae? |
| 15:34.21 | ``Erik | game |
| 15:34.22 | fleeky | although in zbrush's hd geometry mode you typically paint on a one billion poly surface |
| 15:34.29 | fleeky | i will get you the ingame shots.. |
| 15:34.37 | fleeky | http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Placeholder-Player-Model |
| 15:34.38 | fleeky | ur |
| 15:34.50 | fleeky | http://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Ingame_Screenshots |
| 15:34.53 | fleeky | there you go |
| 15:34.54 | ``Erik | <-- is stumbling around the wiki |
| 15:34.59 | brlcad | fleeky: another, http://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/t62c.jpg |
| 15:35.20 | fleeky | the tank is pretty nice |
| 15:35.22 | ``Erik | early stage tech demo, I see |
| 15:35.23 | brlcad | every wire/bolt/nut on the inside and outside are modeled there, it's not just a skin |
| 15:35.31 | fleeky | but with a proper interface i could make that *right* now |
| 15:35.51 | brlcad | doubtful with the interior :) |
| 15:36.42 | fleeky | if you just give me something that will let me do move / scale / rotate / duplicate .. and then union / difference / subtract with nice hotkeys then its not doubtful |
| 15:36.53 | fleeky | maybe move along axis also *shrug* |
| 15:37.02 | brlcad | the other difference is that it's an engineering model, it's accurate down the the last detail, nothing is eyeballed |
| 15:37.03 | fleeky | like press move + axis letter |
| 15:37.21 | fleeky | well im less about that and more about detail |
| 15:37.33 | brlcad | it's doubtful in the sense that you don't know what the interior of the vehicle looks like :) |
| 15:37.34 | fleeky | im just looking at it in terms of level of detail |
| 15:37.39 | fleeky | this is true ! |
| 15:38.28 | fleeky | i am not an engineer .. im actually a circus performer |
| 15:38.37 | ``Erik | there're loads and loads of pictures of t62 interiors |
| 15:42.46 | brlcad | ah, here's one http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png |
| 15:43.35 | brlcad | running all of those pipes and cables accurately is hell in most systems |
| 15:44.31 | brlcad | our best guys often say that is one area where mged is actually better than most, the ease at which they can route pipes exactly |
| 15:45.04 | brlcad | it can still be better, though, it can always be better :) |
| 15:46.33 | ``Erik | teh fux |
| 15:46.37 | ``Erik | they didn't install all of cygwin |
| 15:46.58 | ``Erik | and it's blocked, bah |
| 15:50.03 | fleeky | erik |
| 15:50.12 | fleeky | if you walk me through it i could try building it for you |
| 15:51.02 | fleeky | ive never used cygwin before heh |
| 15:51.02 | ``Erik | do you have a full up cygwin install with a compiler and everything? |
| 15:51.11 | fleeky | no but i could go and get it |
| 15:51.15 | fleeky | just tell me what i need to install |
| 15:51.55 | ``Erik | hm, cygwin, um, with gcc installed (don't need g77, gobjc, or g++) ummmm, shouldn't need perl |
| 15:52.06 | brlcad | the only trick will be getting tcl mged to come up, classic mode is a breeze but the display manager is erksome with tcl mged |
| 15:52.09 | ``Erik | dunno if you'd need the X stuff |
| 15:52.13 | brlcad | you will have to turn off opengl, iirc |
| 15:52.31 | ``Erik | <-- was hoping to muddle through all that and 'fix' it in the config scripts :) |
| 15:52.39 | fleeky | hrm |
| 15:52.44 | brlcad | if you want wgl to build by default, you'll have to edit several things, it's going to try/prefer x11 by default |
| 15:52.46 | fleeky | no opengl makes me a sad monkey |
| 15:53.01 | ``Erik | ogl won't buy you anything, it's all wireframe |
| 15:53.02 | brlcad | that doesn't mean what you think it means |
| 15:53.09 | fleeky | ah doh |
| 15:53.22 | fleeky | you guys really need a solid shaded mode :) |
| 15:53.33 | ``Erik | yes, we do, and if mgmt would let us, we'd work on it |
| 15:53.34 | ``Erik | :) |
| 15:53.39 | fleeky | or atleast have it so you can set the raytracer to render every few milliseconds |
| 15:53.48 | fleeky | what who is mgmt |
| 15:53.51 | brlcad | it's just whether it's talking to the display via opengl protocol, or X11 protocol, or Win32 protocol, etc .. they're all interchangable and fully functional |
| 15:53.52 | ``Erik | the raytrace isn't quite that fast |
| 15:53.53 | fleeky | ur management ? |
| 15:54.21 | brlcad | fleeky: that list that I mentioned yesterday is needed for solid shaded mode |
| 15:54.29 | ``Erik | <-- paid to work on BRL-CAD, kinda has to respect their priorities a tiny little bit... :) |
| 15:54.35 | brlcad | that's why it's fundamental for working on the new modeler |
| 15:55.02 | ``Erik | heh, awesome |
| 15:55.03 | fleeky | brlcad i missed that link |
| 15:55.11 | brlcad | which link? |
| 15:55.14 | ``Erik | one tiny little storm cell started up... over dundalk |
| 15:55.14 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:55.16 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png ? |
| 15:55.40 | fleeky | i remember you mentioning that solid shading was a fundamental problem thogh |
| 15:55.53 | brlcad | it is |
| 15:55.58 | ``Erik | yes, we deal in implicit solids all CSG'd together |
| 15:56.12 | brlcad | mathematical differences between working with implicit and explicit geometric representations |
| 15:56.13 | ``Erik | solid shading expects reduced triangle (or polygon) information |
| 15:56.53 | ``Erik | almost every modern opengl card only understands triangles lines and dots... quads are converted to a trifan or tristrip on the fly |
| 15:57.30 | fleeky | why cant you just convert the csg to a model on the fly |
| 15:57.40 | fleeky | eg to quads/triangels |
| 15:57.53 | fleeky | ur im sure its much easier than waving the magic feature wand.. but just curious |
| 15:58.12 | brlcad | going from implicit to explicit is usually a royal pita, going from explicit to implicit is pretty much impossible without just guessing |
| 15:58.13 | ``Erik | it takes a whole lot of computation to figure out where the boundries are |
| 15:58.21 | fleeky | really? |
| 15:58.27 | fleeky | ive seen a few implementations that do it |
| 15:58.27 | brlcad | that's the whole task "just convert the csg to a polygonal model on the fly" |
| 15:58.32 | brlcad | that "just" is quite complex |
| 15:58.32 | fleeky | hehe |
| 15:58.41 | fleeky | yes i realize that i didnt mean to trivialize it |
| 15:59.02 | brlcad | there aren't many implementations other than commercial cad systems that do this |
| 15:59.16 | brlcad | I know of only two open source projects that "do this" and they have no user interface |
| 15:59.21 | ``Erik | and qradiant/gtk-radiant's version is really crude and hackish |
| 15:59.23 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 15:59.27 | fleeky | qwemodeller does it |
| 15:59.42 | brlcad | it doesn not |
| 15:59.51 | brlcad | it deals with explicit models under the hood |
| 15:59.57 | brlcad | once you have explicit, it's trivial |
| 16:00.07 | fleeky | http://spivak2.at.tut.by/qwemodel/index.htm |
| 16:00.11 | fleeky | oh |
| 16:00.30 | fleeky | im confused whats the difference between what you have and explicit models ? |
| 16:00.50 | ``Erik | to do, say, a sphere |
| 16:00.51 | brlcad | yep, it's doing CSG on something that's already turned into a parametric or otherwise explicit surface representation that can be directly evaluated |
| 16:00.56 | ``Erik | we have a point and a radius, that's it |
| 16:01.00 | ``Erik | they have a slew of triangles |
| 16:01.40 | ``Erik | what that sphere means depends... it could be a cutting tool, an adding tool, ... their triangles are always the final surface representation |
| 16:01.42 | fleeky | ah i see |
| 16:01.57 | brlcad | with an implicit surface .. there is no surface (there is no spoon), at least until you _evaluate_ it .. which is done in several ways, but often expensive |
| 16:02.00 | brlcad | or complicated |
| 16:02.06 | fleeky | hehe there is no spoon |
| 16:02.23 | fleeky | so underneath there not converting from implicit to explicit ? |
| 16:02.30 | brlcad | nope |
| 16:02.30 | ``Erik | nope |
| 16:02.35 | ``Erik | we raytrace implicites |
| 16:02.40 | brlcad | just doing csg on explicit (which was in that list I mentioned) ;) |
| 16:02.49 | fleeky | ah ok |
| 16:02.55 | fleeky | i think my brain is up to speed now |
| 16:03.12 | fleeky | i just need to find a coder who can work on an explicit model implementation for brl-cad then |
| 16:03.21 | brlcad | but csg on explicits are a _lot_ easier .. and they're cheating with the video card (a neat trick, but falls apart on large models) |
| 16:03.37 | fleeky | large models means what ? |
| 16:03.38 | brlcad | pretty much :) |
| 16:03.46 | ``Erik | a couple billion triangles? |
| 16:03.48 | brlcad | models that can't be evaluated on the video card ;) |
| 16:03.48 | ``Erik | worth? |
| 16:03.58 | fleeky | ah ok |
| 16:04.01 | fleeky | thats not a problem for me though |
| 16:04.11 | brlcad | nah, that video card CSG evaluation trick falls apart *way* before a billion |
| 16:04.15 | fleeky | as i am interested in using this to make level geometry for a game |
| 16:04.30 | fleeky | whats the reason that it breaks down ? |
| 16:04.37 | ``Erik | lack of video memory? |
| 16:04.41 | brlcad | it's more depth-limited, as there are several passes per depth of the csg hierarchy |
| 16:04.49 | fleeky | what about paging |
| 16:05.20 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know the technique they use, kinda guessing :) |
| 16:05.20 | brlcad | after about 7-10 levels, the rendering is entirely non-interactive -- a "real" model might be dozens of levels deep |
| 16:05.25 | fleeky | ok you have to explain the depth-limiting a bit more .. does this mean how far into the tree heirarchy you can go ? |
| 16:05.56 | brlcad | and it's non-linear, you'd hose it up after just a few levels, and you can't get the "resultant set" out of the card -- it's just for display purposes |
| 16:06.25 | brlcad | i looked into it for doing mged rendering .. it'd actually kinda work for small models, certainly for most "parts/regions" |
| 16:06.31 | fleeky | well if it can just display the model thats all i need .. we can later compute export to a model format |
| 16:06.40 | brlcad | could have it even fall back to wire at a known depth that will hose it, but I don't want to work on mged |
| 16:07.30 | brlcad | the problem is that computing export is the "bigger problem" .. that's harder than just displaying it and none of the work put into displaying it gets you any closer |
| 16:08.22 | fleeky | whats the problem with that ? |
| 16:09.27 | brlcad | that's where brep spline surfaces come to the rescue -- you can convert almost all of our primitives to a brep spline surface representation *faithfully* and instantly .. doing CSG on just brep spline surfaces is hard but tractable .. going from evaluated CSG brep spline surfaces to polygonal is .. trivial |
| 16:11.26 | fleeky | i assume thats something like nurbs? |
| 16:11.41 | brlcad | yep |
| 16:12.10 | fleeky | ahk as that is what i had imagined would be the middle man |
| 16:12.16 | fleeky | whats the dif between brep spline and nurbs |
| 16:12.41 | brlcad | nurbs is a spline surface representation, just one of several types |
| 16:12.46 | fleeky | ah ok |
| 16:12.55 | brlcad | brep spline surface is just the "generalized" form |
| 16:12.57 | ``Erik | and the result would look a hell of a lot better than, say, shooting a ray every 5 pixels across and five pixels down and doing hacky gouraud shading between :D |
| 16:13.09 | brlcad | and faster |
| 16:13.23 | fleeky | lol |
| 16:13.27 | ``Erik | NURBS is non-uniform rational b-spline |
| 16:13.55 | brlcad | although I've been motivated to give that a try sometime too .. something like what lee did with the point sampling, but make it adaptive |
| 16:14.36 | ``Erik | for 'flat' areas, you could sample a lot less frequently, then increase sample at the edges, kinda like ummmm, how marching cubes focuses in |
| 16:14.45 | fleeky | hehe |
| 16:14.47 | fleeky | neato |
| 16:14.57 | ``Erik | now |
| 16:15.03 | brlcad | basically adaptive real-time rendering when the rays themselves get too expensive to keep it doing fast enough |
| 16:15.18 | fleeky | basically marching cubes but for raytracing ? |
| 16:15.22 | brlcad | i bet you could even display something complex reasonably well enough |
| 16:15.39 | ``Erik | in theory, it'd be a reasonably easy hack, if you can suffer the rtprep |
| 16:15.50 | fleeky | trprep? |
| 16:16.04 | brlcad | maybe as one of several "visualization mode" plugins in the new modeler |
| 16:16.19 | ``Erik | preparing the geometry for raytracing... building the acceleration sturctures and stuff |
| 16:16.20 | brlcad | maybe one of the first ones if breps aren't finished this year |
| 16:16.23 | fleeky | so what is the interface plan for the new modeller ? |
| 16:16.56 | brlcad | it's gonna be a big curses-only gui |
| 16:17.26 | brlcad | ba-dum *ching* |
| 16:17.29 | fleeky | hehe |
| 16:17.59 | brlcad | thank you, thank you, I'm here all week |
| 16:18.03 | brlcad | try the lobster bisque |
| 16:18.06 | fleeky | all year even :) |
| 16:18.52 | fleeky | well i hope you guys get working on this magic app |
| 16:19.00 | fleeky | ill try and find some interested coders |
| 16:19.11 | brlcad | working every day, just a problem of manpower and time :) |
| 16:19.19 | ``Erik | curses??? damn, I was hoping for line feed :( |
| 16:19.26 | ``Erik | the "ed" of modelling |
| 16:19.44 | brlcad | website is getting my attention these days as MinuteElectron's been the first of many to actually "step up" and make excellent progress |
| 16:20.31 | ``Erik | fleeky: have you gone through any of the tutorials yet? |
| 16:20.39 | brlcad | code-wise, spent most of the last 8 months working on nurbs support (albeit indirectly, but it sure still took up a lot of time) |
| 16:20.53 | fleeky | erik yeah |
| 16:21.03 | brlcad | jason made great progress, wish someone hadn't blown it for keeping him on board |
| 16:21.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:21.23 | fleeky | i read through enough of it to really hate the interface :) |
| 16:21.33 | brlcad | you learn to love it ;) |
| 16:21.36 | brlcad | and hate it |
| 16:21.41 | fleeky | nooo its not what i need though |
| 16:21.46 | brlcad | it really is powerful, just not very friendly |
| 16:21.55 | fleeky | powerful yes in the command line sense |
| 16:22.05 | ``Erik | it's kinda designed for absolute precision, not visual ease |
| 16:22.12 | fleeky | yes this is the problem |
| 16:22.19 | ``Erik | depends on what your purpose is |
| 16:22.21 | fleeky | im looking to make level geometry with it .. for a game :( |
| 16:22.33 | brlcad | like a old guru that will answer just about any question you have for it, and send you on your way home magically |
| 16:22.34 | fleeky | quite complex and vast level geometry |
| 16:22.38 | fleeky | but level geometry nontheless |
| 16:22.40 | brlcad | but kick your ass in the process |
| 16:22.41 | ``Erik | if you're trying to represent an existing thing faithfully, it's great, if you're trying to slap out eye candy, not so much |
| 16:22.49 | fleeky | yep |
| 16:22.54 | fleeky | im trying to slap |
| 16:23.40 | brlcad | hmm.. speaking of magic .. I should be playing a game today |
| 16:23.50 | fleeky | but it being powerfull for its intended purpose is a good sign |
| 16:23.57 | fleeky | what game / |
| 16:24.10 | ``Erik | and it's kinda designed to represent military vehicles (big things, simple shapes, flat surfaces, not many curves) more than anything else |
| 16:24.25 | brlcad | fleeky: in the big picture, even mged doesn't expose more than about 50% of what brl-cad on the whole is capable of |
| 16:24.35 | brlcad | it wraps a lot of functionality, but missed much too |
| 16:25.04 | brlcad | the new system should do much much better at that wrapping, being extensively more modular and working with the existing tools more readily/automatically |
| 16:25.10 | fleeky | if you had nurbs support with it you could all the curves you want ? |
| 16:25.37 | brlcad | sure, nurbs are the best at curvature |
| 16:25.54 | brlcad | but you have to expose that via the editor too, which is tricky in itself |
| 16:26.04 | fleeky | what do you mean expose ? |
| 16:26.14 | ``Erik | make accessable |
| 16:26.32 | brlcad | when we talk about implementing nurbs support, i'm talking (at this point) about just fundamental representation, just being able to *have* a nurbs object, able to render and evaluate it |
| 16:26.33 | fleeky | i see |
| 16:26.58 | brlcad | being able to actually manipulate and edit that surface is an entirely separate issue and is mostly gui issues |
| 16:27.03 | ``Erik | we have primitives that can exist, be imported, exported, raytraced, converted... but cannot be edited in mged |
| 16:27.11 | fleeky | hehe |
| 16:27.22 | fleeky | thats highly funny |
| 16:27.32 | brlcad | that said, if it's implicit primitives that are just using nurbs for visualization, you wouldn't need to know .. you'd just see the objects and edit their implicit paramters |
| 16:27.51 | fleeky | its like i have this hamburger i can make it for you but you cant eat it |
| 16:28.17 | ``Erik | not that funny *shrug* the need was to import the geometry and raytrace it... the need wasn't to edit it... *shrug* so people were told to do that much and then go on to the next task |
| 16:28.29 | fleeky | ah |
| 16:28.38 | brlcad | there's representation, visualization, and manipulation .. and various levels of each .. all independent problems |
| 16:28.51 | ``Erik | and editing got put on the 'todo' list |
| 16:30.06 | brlcad | representation is the basic structure(s) in memory; visualization is wireframe, ray-tracing, and eventually opengl shaded displays; manipulation is gui editing support (picking points/curves, editing parameters) |
| 16:31.06 | fleeky | yeah quite a lot of work |
| 16:32.16 | ``Erik | one of the neat aspects of having things broken out all nifty like that is if someone wanted to make a modeller, they could build it ontop of the representation using our libraries and be interoperable... |
| 16:32.23 | ``Erik | 'archer' is kinda an example of that |
| 16:32.57 | fleeky | speaking of archer |
| 16:33.00 | fleeky | is there any docs for it ? |
| 16:33.03 | fleeky | i didnt see any |
| 16:33.09 | fleeky | when i went to brlcad.org |
| 16:33.16 | fleeky | or whatever the url is hehe |
| 16:34.20 | fleeky | ahk hehe |
| 16:34.28 | fleeky | cause at first i thought archer would be what i needed |
| 16:34.45 | ``Erik | I think it's kinda more of a prototype |
| 16:34.47 | fleeky | and then i got stuck trying to figure out how it worked and then i didnt find the docs |
| 16:34.49 | fleeky | ah ok |
| 16:35.02 | fleeky | do you know how to make csg stuff from it ? |
| 16:35.21 | fleeky | the farthest i got was just making primitives and the combs were confusing me as to how the worked exactly |
| 16:35.41 | ``Erik | heh, no? I saw a demo where they slapped together a basic tank really fast... but I haven't used it... I started it up, saw there was a gui there and quit it... (testing on fbsd) |
| 16:35.58 | fleeky | lol |
| 16:40.35 | brlcad | you sort of have to know mged before archer can be useful, but it was designed as an eventual replacement |
| 16:40.54 | brlcad | it does "clean up" most of the things that mged leaves to be desired |
| 16:41.20 | brlcad | giving you gui panels and command line for most things that you'd want: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png |
| 16:41.31 | fleeky | yeah |
| 16:41.36 | fleeky | i like the interface for it |
| 16:42.07 | fleeky | i just dont understand combs really and when i try to edit things once ive combined them in a comb things start messing up very nicely |
| 16:42.35 | brlcad | it's actually using an "embedded mged" in there, just to show you some of that reusability |
| 16:42.53 | fleeky | ah .. i like how i can see a shaded preview in it also :) |
| 16:43.14 | brlcad | ah, see you'd have that issue regardless, as understanding combs is pretty fundamental/basic -- you'd have an understanding of combs after the tutorial series |
| 16:43.49 | brlcad | though it basically amounts to "it's a single node in the hierarchy" |
| 16:43.54 | fleeky | well i know enough to union |
| 16:44.16 | fleeky | and i assume you can have multiple combs doing different stuff |
| 16:44.32 | brlcad | a whole hierarchy of them doing different things :) |
| 16:44.33 | fleeky | i just forget the subtraction command |
| 16:44.36 | fleeky | there is u - and ? |
| 16:44.41 | brlcad | + |
| 16:44.43 | fleeky | ah thats it |
| 16:45.12 | brlcad | which I don't like frankly.. I'd probably use + for union, - for subtraction, and x for intersection myself |
| 16:45.28 | brlcad | but that predates me by over a decade |
| 16:45.40 | fleeky | the only confusing thing is when i make the comb its as if the graphics buffer isnt cleared and if i try moving stuff around it doesnt move.. but then if i change the shading to wireframe again it moves .. but as if it created a new version of the comb that is overtop and if i change it back its like there are two instances of the comb in the viewer |
| 16:46.13 | fleeky | i use the term graphics buffer very loosely |
| 16:46.19 | fleeky | just trying to explain what i see |
| 16:46.31 | brlcad | in archer yes? |
| 16:46.34 | fleeky | yes |
| 16:46.54 | brlcad | it would be just a simple matter of it actually being a bug (remember that archer is also 3 years old there) |
| 16:47.00 | fleeky | omg |
| 16:47.03 | fleeky | blah |
| 16:47.08 | fleeky | makes using it basically impossible ;) |
| 16:47.09 | brlcad | i'm not saying it is, I have no idea |
| 16:47.19 | brlcad | could be the way you're using it |
| 16:47.29 | brlcad | but you're working with alpha software there, not even beta |
| 16:48.14 | fleeky | yeah |
| 16:48.16 | fleeky | sig |
| 16:48.17 | brlcad | it was added to help inspire some devs to improve upon it, show what's possible with a new interface, etc |
| 16:48.17 | fleeky | sigh |
| 16:49.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: include the sources in the dist, even if not built |
| 16:49.11 | fleeky | well they atleast succeeded in making a prettyy nice interface |
| 16:49.37 | ``Erik | hrm, I may've done that backwards |
| 16:50.15 | fleeky | one thing that would be nice though is if it would just make a default comb for you .. and whenever you clicked on a primitive it would be automatically added to that comb unless you deselected the comb |
| 16:50.16 | brlcad | someone interested could rather quickly make archer into a usable interface .. faster even than it'll take to come up with the new interface |
| 16:50.26 | brlcad | it's just not in the direction I'd like to go for the long-term |
| 16:50.35 | fleeky | what dont you like about it |
| 16:50.39 | ``Erik | someone interested who is a tcl guru... archer is all tcl iirc |
| 16:51.05 | fleeky | lol |
| 16:51.11 | brlcad | it's predominantly in incrTcl aside from the plugged-in mged portions from C |
| 16:51.43 | fleeky | ah ok |
| 16:51.52 | fleeky | yeah it would be better if it was code rather than script |
| 16:51.57 | brlcad | ``Erik: did you test that massive library changeover on several platforms first (at least bsd, mac, linux?) |
| 16:51.58 | ``Erik | <-- likes the notion of having several different gui modelers, just pick the gui closest to your task at hand... doesn't like the notion of maintaining a bunch of guis :D |
| 16:52.11 | fleeky | although for me i would rather have something now that doesnt work as good then something good that works in 2 years :) |
| 16:52.17 | ``Erik | erm, what massive library changeover? |
| 16:52.41 | brlcad | it was nasty repetition, but it 'worked' on all the platforms .. i'm highly suspicious that you broke the build somewhere |
| 16:52.48 | brlcad | the one from thurs/friday |
| 16:53.01 | ``Erik | oh, I hit it on bsd, mac, linux, irix and solaris |
| 16:53.09 | brlcad | okay, cool |
| 16:53.19 | brlcad | so then the only thing that broke was M3 :) |
| 16:53.51 | ``Erik | ok, so I brought the BRL-CAD component of M3 into complience with the rest of M3's state. |
| 16:53.57 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 16:54.06 | brlcad | they *have* to be nil libraries because M3 isn't setting an LD_LIB_PATH to anything |
| 16:54.52 | brlcad | tcl is still going to come up unresolved now that they're not static, but I'll probably just have them manually install it or something |
| 16:54.54 | ``Erik | in theory, libtool SHOULD add an rpath to the ELF header for dependant libraries... |
| 16:55.23 | ``Erik | hrm, I don't think I un-staticked tcl |
| 16:55.54 | ``Erik | my bigarsed commit was to fix breakage for certain breeds of leenewx O.o |
| 16:56.01 | ``Erik | and to clean things up a bit :) |
| 16:57.19 | brlcad | i un-static'd it a few months ago iirc |
| 16:57.57 | brlcad | oh, I don't mind .. i hated the duplication -- it was a hack that was just guaranteed to work at the time |
| 16:58.23 | brlcad | it's more whether it actually fixed anything or if it was cosmetic and likely to break the build elsewhere |
| 16:58.33 | brlcad | finiky versions of libtool notwithstanding |
| 16:58.52 | ``Erik | the missing X stuff that was reported on ubuntu |
| 16:58.55 | ``Erik | I saw that on debian |
| 16:59.16 | ``Erik | so that's what tripped me off on that |
| 16:59.24 | ``Erik | thursday, I wasn't in on friday |
| 16:59.36 | ``Erik | er, wait, yeah I was, it musta been friday |
| 17:00.32 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: we do have (or at least did in the past) have permission to use the Mac OS X logo, and of course the Linux penguin 'logo' |
| 17:00.32 | brlcad | not sure about the windows logo, would have to check or make something new |
| 17:00.49 | brlcad | bsd needs to be in the list with the little demon dude |
| 17:01.30 | brlcad | 4 bsd logos is overkill unless it's going to be a bsd-specific download page |
| 17:01.42 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Can we not just use the Windows Logo under fair-use? |
| 17:02.01 | ``Erik | *shrug* they may've forked from the same tree, but hey, solaris hpux and aix forked from that same tree |
| 17:02.02 | brlcad | it's not clear how fair use applies in that case |
| 17:02.08 | MinuteElectron | ok... |
| 17:02.50 | ``Erik | beastie represents original bsd, bsdlite, and freebsd, but openbsd is puffer, netbsd is who the fuck knows what, dragonfly is a dragonfly ... :) |
| 17:03.19 | brlcad | "Do not use the Windows logo on or in connection with products, packaging, manuals, promotional and advertising materials, or Web sites for any purpose except pursuant to an express written trademark license from Microsoft. See the Logo Programs page for more details." |
| 17:03.34 | ``Erik | ok |
| 17:03.43 | ``Erik | lets get a picture of a bsod, scale it down, and use that. |
| 17:03.47 | ``Erik | everyone will know we mean windows |
| 17:03.47 | ``Erik | :D |
| 17:03.49 | brlcad | http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/logo/programs.mspx |
| 17:04.33 | brlcad | the new freebsd logo is slick enough to represent, http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html |
| 17:04.44 | ``Erik | meh |
| 17:05.20 | ``Erik | looks like some tard sucked apples corporate wang and that's what shot out, lacks the charm of the cartoon character :D *duck* |
| 17:06.21 | brlcad | meh, the cartoon had no polish appeal, made it really hard to take it serious at least perception-wise |
| 17:06.35 | ``Erik | who cares about poland? :D |
| 17:06.36 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 17:06.59 | ``Erik | I mean, um, just as polished as tux? :D |
| 17:07.28 | brlcad | tux has the same problem, that's why most commercial distros hide the fat bastard |
| 17:09.08 | brlcad | and even for those that don't.. it's slightly easy to swallow than a little devil with a pitchfork for most folks |
| 17:09.29 | ``Erik | heh, true |
| 17:09.57 | ``Erik | used to be around once a month some troll would hit the fbsd mailing lists asking why we were all devil worshippers and satanists and god will throw us all to hell blah blah blah |
| 17:11.17 | brlcad | exactly, that's just distracting no matter what your religious inclination is |
| 17:11.58 | ``Erik | <-- just being antagonistic today :) just like every day |
| 17:15.07 | ``Erik | *ponder* |
| 17:15.24 | ``Erik | should we have an 8 branch, or should we have a 7 branch and call head the new 8? |
| 17:29.53 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: Just my opinion, completely unwarrented probably, but on a programming projects I am relatively active on we use head for non-released stuff (e.g. your version 8) and branches for versions that have been released. Quite effective I find, although the project I am refering to works by adding features to head and only adding security\major bug fixes to release branches. |
| 17:31.08 | MinuteElectron | s/projects/project |
| 17:31.27 | MinuteElectron | We probably use a different release structure anyway so maybe irrelevant. |
| 17:32.35 | ``Erik | that's kinda the approach I'm used to and like, minute... (freebsd is a good model) |
| 17:32.48 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 17:33.09 | ``Erik | but there's a line in the TODO that suggests making an 8 branch for 'cutting edge' and making head the front line of 7... which is what I'm contesting here :D |
| 17:33.57 | brlcad | the problem is that I don't expect 8 for probably two years *at best*, with many releases in between with major efforts |
| 17:34.38 | brlcad | 8 is more experimental at this point, hence branch instead of head -- otherwise it would be just done |
| 17:34.40 | ``Erik | fbsd has HEAD as total bleeding edge, each major has a branch, each minor has a branch off of its major, and patches are tagged, with lots of MFC activity |
| 17:35.07 | brlcad | bsd has/had an EXPERIMENTAL branch too |
| 17:35.28 | ``Erik | it's had many, but most of that has been moved to private CVS and perforce |
| 17:35.32 | brlcad | that's effectively what 8 is, just naming it for that feature |
| 17:36.20 | ``Erik | mebbe the branch should be BREAKS_DB so it can be re-used for the next major O.o |
| 17:36.33 | brlcad | regardless, what they did isn't necessarily the god model either, just to be noted .. head imo should be where most of the effort is going |
| 17:36.49 | brlcad | at that is 7 right now, and will be 7 for a long time still |
| 17:36.57 | ``Erik | how many things are going to break the db format? |
| 17:37.07 | brlcad | yet I'd like to start on a few 8 things in the meantime, so .. a branch |
| 17:37.31 | ``Erik | <-- just doesn't like the notion of using a version number in an experimental branch *shrug* |
| 17:38.21 | brlcad | that sounds like an entirely personal issue :) |
| 17:38.32 | brlcad | it's not like it'd be just called "8" |
| 17:38.38 | brlcad | though that would be kind of funny |
| 17:39.47 | brlcad | it'd follow the branch naming guidelines, probably rel-8-branch or even something generic like EXPERIMENTAL |
| 17:40.04 | ``Erik | (of course, I also think tags should be entirely [A-Z0-9_]) |
| 17:40.07 | MinuteElectron | Do you even hav any branches yet? |
| 17:40.43 | ``Erik | yup |
| 17:42.27 | ``Erik | 9 so far |
| 17:42.55 | brlcad | that's just because you have lots of personal bias/religion that have little technical foundation :P |
| 17:42.55 | brlcad | about as useful as arguing over 2 space indents vs 4 |
| 17:42.55 | brlcad | it doesn't matter so long as it's consistent |
| 17:42.55 | brlcad | which is why there's a naming convention in place and it is pretty much consistent now |
| 17:42.55 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: the windows port was a relatively major branch effort |
| 17:42.57 | brlcad | as was the upgrade to ansi C syntax |
| 17:43.40 | MinuteElectron | Is there a secret subversion\cvs server somewhere? |
| 17:43.44 | MinuteElectron | I don't see any branches. |
| 17:44.28 | brlcad | cvs status -v README | grep branch |
| 17:44.33 | ``Erik | any tag that has 4 numbers instead of 2 is a branch |
| 17:44.58 | MinuteElectron | I haven't got it checked out anywhere at the moment. |
| 17:45.29 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/ |
| 17:45.34 | ``Erik | look at the sticky tag dropdown |
| 17:45.37 | brlcad | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7572c566 |
| 17:45.38 | MinuteElectron | I know. |
| 17:45.42 | MinuteElectron | But I can't grep. |
| 17:45.47 | ``Erik | huh, there were branches that configure.ac wasn't in |
| 17:45.51 | *** join/#brlcad |jenda| (n=Kopr@r6dj122.net.upc.cz) | |
| 17:46.04 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 17:46.09 | ``Erik | if you do the sticky branch dropdown, it'll say "Branches" with a list, then "Non-brnach tags" with a list |
| 17:46.12 | MinuteElectron | It is me getting too used to subversion. |
| 17:46.29 | MinuteElectron | I have never even used cvs so don't know the ins and outs. |
| 17:46.44 | brlcad | that's probably a good thing |
| 17:47.09 | brlcad | less than four months remaining! |
| 17:47.13 | MinuteElectron | I would never use cvs if I had the choice. |
| 17:47.17 | MinuteElectron | 4 months till what? |
| 17:47.39 | MinuteElectron | christmas? |
| 17:47.48 | MinuteElectron | lol - I have to go, dinner. |
| 17:47.53 | brlcad | I've had the conversion to Subversion planned for quite a while .. "before the end of the year" |
| 17:48.10 | brlcad | which is this year, so within four months we'll be on svn |
| 17:48.58 | brlcad | probably month after next as soon as this next release is rolled out |
| 17:50.40 | ``Erik | heh, I had some bad experiences with svn a while back, but it does have some nice features... *shrug* |
| 18:04.12 | MinuteElectron | svn>cvs |
| 18:04.18 | MinuteElectron | any day |
| 18:04.55 | ``Erik | hehehe, if you've never used cvs, how do ya know? :D |
| 18:05.10 | MinuteElectron | because cvs is a hore to use |
| 18:05.33 | ``Erik | erm, svn is made so all the commands are almost identical? |
| 18:05.48 | MinuteElectron | I have checked out brlcad before. But I haven't really "used it". |
| 18:06.32 | MinuteElectron | It has benefits, the thing I hate about cvs is it doesn't use plain and simple directory structure. |
| 18:06.46 | ``Erik | howso? |
| 18:07.01 | MinuteElectron | modules |
| 18:07.04 | MinuteElectron | stickies |
| 18:07.24 | ``Erik | ah, those're tags, that's one thing that drives me up the wall with svn |
| 18:07.46 | ``Erik | having to remember to append /trunk if I want the latest, sheesh |
| 18:07.51 | ``Erik | :D |
| 18:15.32 | MinuteElectron | And is that 1 million lines of source code thing real? |
| 18:15.42 | MinuteElectron | s/1 million/over a million |
| 18:15.56 | ``Erik | ? |
| 18:16.05 | MinuteElectron | http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg |
| 18:18.38 | MinuteElectron | So I have 5 out of 6 logos ready. Not sure where I can get a decent copy of the IRIX cube from though. Appears IRIX is EOP. |
| 18:19.44 | MinuteElectron | The only ones I can find are tiny, and it is a bit silly having a tiny logo in the middle of a box. |
| 18:21.30 | MinuteElectron | I am glad I have done this, will be quite useful for this and in the future on projects I am doing at the moment. |
| 18:21.58 | MinuteElectron | I have to go, but I will add transparency and upload when I get back in an hour. |
| 18:24.33 | ``Erik | how big? |
| 18:25.25 | ``Erik | something like http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/images/c/cd/Sgi_cube_logo.png ? |
| 18:33.58 | *** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de) | |
| 18:43.24 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yes, it's quite true .. more than a million |
| 18:45.42 | brlcad | the biggest win for svn is that it actually operates with changesets instead of per-dir actions, tracks file moves and renames, and actually tracks directories |
| 18:46.34 | brlcad | those are three things you simply cannot do in cvs without resorting to various usage conventions, conventions which are particularly error-prone |
| 18:47.22 | brlcad | the rest is gravy (http access, better user auth, mime types, eol-tracking, better binary diff management, etc) |
| 18:48.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (Makefile.am tie.c tie_kdtree.c): move to old C comments so we can remove the -std=c99 cflag |
| 18:51.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c): wrap stdint.h (fix for solaris) |
| 18:55.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (dfft.c syn.c): remove the "complex.h" include |
| 19:03.29 | brlcad | woot |
| 19:03.41 | ``Erik | ? |
| 19:03.41 | brlcad | ~``Erik++ |
| 19:04.01 | brlcad | fixing the libtie build flag sillyness |
| 19:04.14 | ``Erik | the only issue was c++ style comments |
| 19:04.35 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:04.42 | ``Erik | sed -i.bak 's,//\(.*\),/*& */,' *.[ch] |
| 19:04.42 | brlcad | why doesn't that surprise me |
| 19:04.46 | ``Erik | where's my cake and medal? |
| 19:04.46 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 19:04.47 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:05.46 | ``Erik | -std=c99 was breaking the build on slowaris, sys/int_types.h refused to define uint64_t if any stdc was defined... |
| 19:06.51 | ``Erik | weird way of doing it, too... #if __STDC__ - 0 || !defined(_LONGLONG) |
| 19:06.54 | ``Erik | something of that nature |
| 19:07.33 | ``Erik | aaanyways, got a full build on solaris, installing now, then will beat on mged a little and run bench there just to verify.... heh |
| 19:09.16 | brlcad | cool, maybe we can finally update that version number :) |
| 19:09.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: |
| 19:09.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: librtserver needs to be able to have all brl-cad symbols resolved, must use the |
| 19:09.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: not-installed-libraries for the LIBADD. tcl will still fail if a suitable |
| 19:09.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: libtcl is not installed in a standard system search path (and it's too much of |
| 19:09.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: an unmaintainable pita to make a libtcl_nil). |
| 19:10.08 | ``Erik | irix and debian are both still giving me issues :/ |
| 19:13.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope |
| 19:15.09 | ``Erik | pheer the awesome might of TWO 180mhz r10k's O.o |
| 19:15.38 | brlcad | care of irix, it has a few false-positive failures that are compiler bugs |
| 19:16.05 | brlcad | one being long rpaths if it's a lib probablem |
| 19:16.14 | ``Erik | I may be running into that right now |
| 19:16.28 | ``Erik | missing X symbols was one thing that scrolled by |
| 19:17.30 | ``Erik | speaking of, I have a similar bug in fbsd to fix, the /etc/group parser is hardcoded [512], and silently truncates :/ |
| 19:17.46 | ``Erik | here on our darkside, we have group lists lmore than 512 characters |
| 19:24.31 | brlcad | which parser? |
| 19:24.45 | brlcad | a cad tool that actually reads /etc/group? |
| 19:24.50 | ``Erik | nooo, in freebsd |
| 19:24.54 | ``Erik | in libc I think |
| 19:24.56 | brlcad | ooh |
| 19:25.18 | ``Erik | btw, made /p/tmp on 'that old irix machine' |
| 19:25.20 | brlcad | aah, gotcha .. mistook what you read |
| 19:26.37 | ``Erik | those didn't look like there was much space available, /p has plenty of unused space |
| 19:27.12 | ``Erik | otherwise, I usually use something like /usr/tmp/erik/brlcadbuild (or /usr/tmp/erik/brlcadbuildall) |
| 19:27.57 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.16 | brlcad | either way, what you picked was good too |
| 19:28.40 | ``Erik | ~375 megs? |
| 19:28.44 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 19:29.11 | ``Erik | just in case you're surprised to see the existance of /p/tmp mode 1777 |
| 19:29.15 | ``Erik | :) |
| 19:29.58 | brlcad | that's because it's got a full cad build in there from the last time i'd tested |
| 19:33.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/pixdsplit.c liboptical/photonmap.c): should only be using common.h, not brlcad_config.h |
| 19:39.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (19 files in 11 dirs): should only be using common.h, not brlcad_config.h |
| 19:39.32 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: Wow, where'd you find that? |
| 19:39.44 | ``Erik | google images? |
| 19:40.03 | MinuteElectron | what did you search for? |
| 19:40.11 | ``Erik | "irix logo" |
| 19:40.12 | MinuteElectron | I only found bad resolution ones on google. |
| 19:40.28 | ``Erik | then filtered on size (large had nothing, but medium had that a couple pages in) |
| 19:40.28 | MinuteElectron | interesting |
| 19:40.29 | brlcad | someone modeled that in brl-cad once |
| 19:40.40 | ``Erik | heh, g_pipe yo |
| 19:41.06 | MinuteElectron | Wow, and it is almost perfect size. |
| 19:41.13 | MinuteElectron | 128x125 and I wanted 128x128 |
| 19:41.24 | brlcad | heh, yeah, though it's a near-zero-radius turn |
| 19:42.49 | ``Erik | bench on slowaris looks like the results are correct... the expected 74 off by one on m35 |
| 19:42.54 | ``Erik | (using gcc) |
| 19:46.08 | brlcad | nifty, http://www.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sgilogo.png |
| 19:49.41 | ``Erik | model looks about right, but the angle is wrong :) |
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| 20:32.52 | ``Erik | oh... now that's fucking lovely |
| 20:36.36 | ``Erik | debian (and I'd guess ubuntu by extension) patch and ugly break into their libtool. |
| 20:37.14 | poolio | mmm debian packages. |
| 20:37.35 | ``Erik | s/d u/ u/ |
| 20:48.31 | ``Erik | if I autogen on a nondebian machine, it builds ok... if I autogen on the dbeian machine, I get unresolved symbols. those assclowns. *fume* |
| 20:52.27 | brlcad | woot, http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/sgi.png |
| 20:53.33 | brlcad | not too surprising, and explains some of the debian errors i've seen |
| 20:53.37 | MinuteElectron | nice |
| 20:54.20 | MinuteElectron | I hate magic wand transparency, it never works. http://my.brlcad.org/d/downloads |
| 20:55.07 | brlcad | heh, it works.. it just doesn't work the way you think it works :) |
| 20:55.18 | MinuteElectron | what? |
| 20:55.26 | brlcad | magic wand |
| 20:55.29 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 20:55.30 | MinuteElectron | lol |
| 20:56.19 | brlcad | for that, though -- just cheat |
| 20:56.26 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: text-align, left or center. |
| 20:56.34 | brlcad | put them in a white/grey box |
| 20:56.38 | MinuteElectron | ok. |
| 20:58.30 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: the logos and the text, or just the text? |
| 20:58.54 | MinuteElectron | oh, I see. |
| 21:16.54 | MinuteElectron | :) http://my.brlcad.org/d/downloads |
| 21:18.18 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: :) |
| 21:19.07 | brlcad | hehe, much better :) |
| 21:19.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/Makefile.am libdm/Makefile.am): the opengl knobs assume X is handy (wgl knob is used for windows) |
| 21:20.01 | poolio | make 'em transparent :) |
| 21:20.10 | MinuteElectron | They arem just not properly. |
| 21:20.14 | MinuteElectron | s/m/, |
| 21:21.57 | brlcad | ``Erik: hm .. the direction there is to make just one symbol per interface so only one configure option per interface is needed as well |
| 21:22.15 | brlcad | it could just as readily be named x11opengl but it's just a label |
| 21:22.50 | ``Erik | meh, I'm tired and about to leave, just fixing an irix link error (cropped up in rttherm) |
| 21:23.03 | ``Erik | I'll try to remember to clean it up tomorrow O.o but it works now and didn't before, so *shrug* |
| 21:24.04 | brlcad | i realized that, just letting you know the direction .. |
| 21:24.10 | ``Erik | aight |
| 21:24.24 | brlcad | the problem right now is tying them to with/enable features |
| 21:24.51 | ``Erik | bbi45 or so |
| 21:25.21 | brlcad | there really should probably be just an --enable-libfb="ogl x11" or similar and the --with-x11 and --with-opengl options just help find stuff |
| 21:25.59 | brlcad | same for --enable-libdm |
| 21:26.17 | brlcad | or collapse them into one --enable-interface |
| 21:31.33 | brlcad | woot2, http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/sgi.png |
| 21:31.58 | brlcad | didn't add light sources yet, but close enough .. that was a fun lil script |
| 21:46.44 | MinuteElectron | Ok, site nearly finished. But is in a bit of a bad state. Will finish tomorrow. |
| 21:53.14 | |jenda| | nkj |
| 23:26.51 | brlcad | my feelings exactly |jenda| |
| 23:36.41 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.238) | |
| 00:01.27 | starseeker | brlcad: Question about the benchmark-only and rtserver-only modes - do they automatically ignore --enable-debug and/or --disable-debug? |
| 00:18.37 | brlcad | er, they shouldn't |
| 00:20.29 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 00:27.14 | brlcad | starseeker: ebuild also should entirely not care about the *-only modes :) |
| 00:30.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): multiply as a double |
| 00:38.52 | starseeker | brlcad: OK, fair enough :-) |
| 00:39.09 | starseeker | Makes life simpler :-) |
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| 05:02.55 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:39.40 | poolio | Have a fun day at work today guys :) |
| 10:11.16 | brlcad | heh, thanks |
| 10:11.23 | brlcad | have fun in class |
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| 12:59.49 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 15:49.03 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: block on top of main page added - may need more styling though. Other than the styling on that everything I can do\know how to do before moving the site over is done. |
| 17:21.04 | ``Erik | now that's interesting |
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| 17:25.50 | *** part/#brlcad Kimmo1972 (n=kirto@a91-152-239-25.elisa-laajakaista.fi) | |
| 17:30.07 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: ? |
| 17:31.42 | ``Erik | heh, discrepency in bench/run.sh output on different platforms... |
| 17:31.52 | ``Erik | tracked the bug, fixed it, doing cross platform testing now, then I'll commit :) |
| 17:40.26 | *** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 18:35.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: fix parsing bit that confused /bin/sh on solaris |
| 18:40.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: setting a log variable confuses some shells (solaris /bin/sh) and kills the log function, so rename the var to lg |
| 19:05.35 | brlcad | heh, silly shell |
| 19:06.29 | brlcad | minute: cool, it looks good/better -- how'd you end up getting that block up there? is it actually a drupal block or some other node or something else? |
| 19:10.51 | minute | I put a $sidebar_right in the php code and just stuck the block in the right sidebar. |
| 19:11.08 | minute | Since we aren't using a sidebar I just used that. |
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| 19:13.35 | minute | s/sidebar/right sidebar |
| 19:15.58 | ``Erik | SWEET, I crashed X11.app |
| 19:23.01 | ``Erik | consistantly |
| 19:26.18 | brlcad | minute: heh, ewww! |
| 19:26.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: WITH_OPENGL actually means GLX, so don't enable if X is not enabled |
| 19:29.08 | minute | brlcad: :D |
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| 19:31.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/Makefile.am libfb/Makefile.am): de-nest OPENGL from X11, configure now does the sanity checking |
| 19:38.24 | minute | You have four machines? |
| 19:38.36 | ``Erik | heh, a lot more than 4 |
| 19:38.38 | minute | I guess Mac, Linux, IRIX, Solaris, BSD - makes sense. |
| 19:38.43 | ``Erik | but that's enough of a representative set for what i'm doing |
| 19:39.24 | ``Erik | hey, brlcad, run mged -c and attach ogl |
| 19:39.56 | ``Erik | kills X dead :D |
| 19:40.24 | ``Erik | since other gl programs work remote X, I assume we do something weird to trigger their bug? |
| 19:56.23 | ``Erik | hummmm |
| 20:29.26 | ``Erik | brlcad, when was the last time you tested the X shtuffz on irix? the XNewModifiermap() test is failing for me due to link ordering |
| 20:33.12 | poolio | I believe that test was failing for IriX64 on Windows too |
| 21:21.21 | ``Erik | X is supposed to fail on windows |
| 21:21.28 | ``Erik | it's windows, not an X supporting platform :D |
| 21:25.15 | ``Erik | consider: http://paste.lisp.org/display/47595 |
| 21:54.59 | poolio | ``Erik: oh hmmm. someone had that same issue before, I would grep my logs but my laptop died :\ |
| 21:55.45 | poolio | IriX64 also runs cygwin and schtuff, I dunno if that can support X apps. It's been awhile...sorry :P |
| 22:35.19 | IriX64 | Xmodifiermap vs xmodifier keymap? |
| 22:35.30 | IriX64 | err minus space |
| 22:36.06 | IriX64 | poolio my xapps run well :) |
| 22:38.57 | IriX64 | alanis morisette has such a jewel of a voice :) |
| 22:39.32 | IriX64 | just pointing out that x apps run well with windows medi player :P |
| 22:39.39 | IriX64 | err media |
| 22:43.38 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/desktop.png :) now show me yours :) |
| 22:47.11 | ``Erik | damn I rule... cruising through yuppyville in my beemer, long hair, goatee, blasting lynyrd skynyrd |
| 22:48.01 | IriX64 | right remember it, you're the resident mind expert aren't you :) |
| 22:49.05 | IriX64 | we've already done the yardstick test ``Erik |
| 22:54.33 | IriX64 | btw that was launched from an icon on the destop |
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| 03:39.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libtie updates from the muves team are now fully integrated, the rest of the items are pushed back again for the next iteration in order to get this release stabilized and tested |
| 03:42.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 03:42.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: erik fixed an issue in the benchmark tool that was causing bad juju when it came |
| 03:42.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: time to compute the stats due to a 'log' variable shadowing a function in the |
| 03:42.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: script of the same name. he renamed the function to lg and all reportedly is |
| 03:42.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: well with the world now on solaris (where this problem seemed to be isolated). |
| 03:45.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: adrt seems to be pretty much working now, so call it 'done' too though there is more work that could probably occur on decoupling it from sdl and/or python given the trivial benefit gained. |
| 03:48.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: minor rewording |
| 03:52.34 | brlcad | IriX64: did you ever get Jamie to assign copyright on the hex.c program? |
| 03:52.53 | brlcad | so that it can be incorporated |
| 03:53.17 | brlcad | ideally just slapping on the standard header will do the trick, but I can't do it for him/her |
| 03:55.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: update OpenNURBS to the July 2007 update, integrate changes with the fixes we already have made ourselves |
| 04:03.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: |
| 04:03.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: automake 1.6 chokes on having EXTRA_DIST listed on multiple true/false contexts, |
| 04:03.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: and does not grok the += syntax. it's still supported because it's still pretty |
| 04:03.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prevalent, so back it up so EXTRA_DIST is only listed once. |
| 05:00.10 | brlcad | :) |
| 05:00.44 | brlcad | par for the course, if it's not on brl-cad then it's on some other project |
| 07:51.00 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-031-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 13:27.42 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-031-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 14:56.15 | minute | brlcad: I have everything I know how to do regarding getting the website ready for the move. I have absolutely no idea how to set up LDAP, and I believe you were doing that, also I am not sure how to configure heavy load response but will have a look into it. |
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| 18:42.39 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: no problem, I'm still churning away at it actually |
| 18:44.54 | brlcad | that style should probably be changed for the info box, maybe change the "right" menu style |
| 18:45.18 | brlcad | a simple rounded corner box would probably work much better than the menu style |
| 18:52.21 | MinuteElectron | ok |
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| 13:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): |
| 13:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: automake has a braindead auto-inclusion of ChangeLog files that is causing make |
| 13:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: distcheck to fail when trying to include the debian 'changelog' file. avoid the |
| 13:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: whole issue and make the file more generalized (auto-sets the version and time |
| 13:48.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: now) by turning it into an autoconf template instead. |
| 14:17.08 | ``Erik | behh |
| 14:17.15 | ``Erik | I tried that and it puked on 'make deb' |
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| 15:35.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: o davisson |
| 16:09.22 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=bi4fuxzn@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-2a639c832245555a) | |
| 16:41.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh: need devscripts, not debmake |
| 17:06.20 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=mmv7eo1c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-2ca98bb90c676fdd) | |
| 17:06.42 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I am having trouble connecting to your server. |
| 17:07.44 | MinuteElectron | Unable to connect via SSH or HTTP. Also all my processes appear to have been killed since I am not on IRC although I was when went to bed last night. |
| 17:13.18 | ``Erik | <-- just logged in with no issue |
| 17:14.25 | ``Erik | and you logged out at 9:41 server time |
| 17:14.32 | ``Erik | er, wait,s orry |
| 17:14.37 | ``Erik | 17;56 |
| 17:14.46 | ``Erik | est |
| 17:18.03 | MinuteElectron | That is about 22:56 my time. |
| 17:18.26 | MinuteElectron | Odd, that is about when I did leave. But I remember typing '/sleep' not '/quit'. |
| 17:19.17 | MinuteElectron | And now I can't connect at all which is really queer. |
| 17:21.44 | MinuteElectron | How queer. |
| 17:24.43 | louipc | http://www.warwickworldwide.com/img/news/large/queer%20redone.jpg |
| 17:26.57 | MinuteElectron | XD |
| 19:13.09 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=x74m9lp5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-cd17b82d6b19c8c4) | |
| 19:16.18 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Any ideas on my problem? |
| 19:18.23 | MinuteElectron | Same error as last time I believe, connection timed out. |
| 19:29.15 | MinuteElectron | Ok, so I connected to it using a friends server. |
| 19:29.21 | MinuteElectron | Apparently my screen session is Dead. |
| 19:29.33 | brlcad | yes, screens are gone |
| 19:29.35 | MinuteElectron | Although I don't know what that means it probably means it is unrecoverable. |
| 19:29.46 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: What happend? |
| 19:29.52 | brlcad | the machine had scheduled maintenance last night, was rebooted to install some new hardware |
| 19:30.04 | MinuteElectron | Did it get 500 days uptime. |
| 19:30.10 | MinuteElectron | I saw 499 at last check. |
| 19:31.07 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How does screen even know that a session existed if the machine was rebooted? |
| 19:31.10 | ``Erik | and DOH, reboot without knowing it, I lost game time :( |
| 19:31.15 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: uptime was lost :( *sniff* |
| 19:31.27 | brlcad | i think it got past 500, but don't know how far |
| 19:31.34 | MinuteElectron | Cool. |
| 19:31.36 | brlcad | have to check some logs |
| 19:31.50 | ``Erik | not using uptimed? |
| 19:32.08 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 19:32.08 | ``Erik | sysutils/uptimed |
| 19:42.21 | brlcad | i think you installed uptimed |
| 19:43.17 | ``Erik | uprecords says... |
| 19:43.21 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:45.47 | brlcad | awwww |
| 19:45.50 | brlcad | bitch |
| 19:47.35 | ``Erik | heh, the installed version does funny things with that kernel O.o try 'uprecords -b' (boot ordered instead of uptime ordered) |
| 19:57.42 | ``Erik | hummmm, had to do some hackery to get ucbcc working :/ (was puking on its own headers with the -Xc flag) |
| 20:03.24 | ``Erik | and more than just the tree walk in clone, hum |
| 20:13.12 | *** join/#brlcad JJZ (n=kvirc@81.90.250.169) | |
| 20:35.00 | minute | ``Erik: What is up with the boot record in the future? |
| 20:36.26 | ``Erik | exactly! :D |
| 20:38.13 | ``Erik | (kernel boot time vs program insantiation, I would guess... and it's favoring kernel?) |
| 20:39.28 | MinuteElectron | 0 5 499 days, 10:08:25 | FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE Mon May 1 12:54:52 2006 |
| 20:39.29 | MinuteElectron | -> 6 0 days, 17:27:30 | FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE Wed Sep 12 23:06:42 2007 |
| 20:39.30 | MinuteElectron | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:39.39 | MinuteElectron | How weird. |
| 20:40.57 | MinuteElectron | Also note the difference between 17:24:30 and 17:26:34 is greater than the difference between 23:07:10 and 23:06:42. |
| 21:10.02 | louipc | muhaha I have more uptime now |
| 21:10.57 | brlcad | hehe |
| 21:12.03 | louipc | hey brlcad did you say something about moving the project from CVS before? |
| 21:13.13 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:13.19 | brlcad | we're moving to svn before the end of the year |
| 21:13.26 | louipc | ah ok |
| 21:13.30 | brlcad | probably in oct/nov |
| 21:14.05 | louipc | I've been using git recently. It's pretty sweet |
| 21:15.32 | Maloeran | Just wondering, have there been any updates on Archer? Mark would like me to work on it at some point in the future, but it was quite broken on Linux last I tried |
| 21:15.38 | louipc | wasup |
| 21:18.26 | Maloeran | How's life lately, louipc? I sure went through a couple big changes here |
| 21:18.49 | louipc | Maloeran: doesn't look like archer's been updated I haven't updated for a long time |
| 21:19.27 | louipc | not bad I'm coding some web interface stuff to host build files for my distro |
| 21:19.46 | louipc | how about you? what kind of changes? |
| 21:20.23 | Maloeran | Erik, they would like me to integrate RF into Archer to replace librt, but amusingly, I can't even run the current software |
| 21:20.42 | Maloeran | Well louipc... For example, my future wife ( celebration on October 13th ) and my mother will be meeting in 26 hours |
| 21:20.44 | ``Erik | erm, does archer even fire rays? heh, I thought it was more about libwdb :) |
| 21:21.00 | louipc | wow congrats |
| 21:21.12 | Maloeran | It does raytracing rendering, but they may want to use RF for interactive visualization and editing too |
| 21:22.11 | Maloeran | And from Siggraph, Disney Studios is apparently interested in some sort of parternship to integrate the software into some fancy photorealistic rendering |
| 21:24.27 | louipc | oh is that with the real-time stuff you were doing? |
| 21:24.51 | Maloeran | Yes, I guess it could cut their rendering time quite a bit |
| 21:24.58 | louipc | sweet |
| 21:25.20 | ``Erik | cut rendering time or cut compute farm size.. |
| 21:25.41 | ``Erik | power bill for those things must suck, dumping power to heat the room, and more power to cool it... :D |
| 21:26.03 | Maloeran | It would be nice for artists to obtain quicker results, rather than wait constantly for the frames to pop up |
| 21:26.27 | ``Erik | that's what low quality frames are for :D |
| 21:27.26 | Maloeran | Eh, still unhappy with your job over there? |
| 21:27.41 | ``Erik | with a certain element or two, yes |
| 21:29.02 | Maloeran | Survice may not like me too much lately... I gravely suffer from the symptoms of a phenethylamine neurotransmitter imbalance, such as insomnia, lack of concentration, loss of emotional control |
| 21:29.22 | ``Erik | time to back off the crack, dude |
| 21:30.27 | Maloeran | Tsk. A surge in phenethylamine is a symptom of falling in love, your biochemistry is rusty :) |
| 21:31.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:31.42 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't do biochemistry |
| 21:32.29 | Maloeran | I read abundantely on the topic, trying desperately to understand the situation and cure the condition so I could focus on work. It wasn't of much help |
| 21:33.18 | ``Erik | beer. *grunt*. |
| 21:33.39 | louipc | or whiskey |
| 21:33.51 | ``Erik | whoa, hey now, learn to walk before ya run! :D |
| 21:34.01 | ``Erik | mmmm whiskey.... |
| 21:34.15 | ``Erik | they were out of the kind I like last time I went to the package store, I'm still kinda sad about that... |
| 21:34.20 | ``Erik | (bushmills) |
| 21:34.33 | ``Erik | tequila shots? |
| 21:34.43 | Maloeran | I'm frightened how easily she can compromise my principles |
| 21:34.44 | louipc | you know why canadian money is coloured? So you can tell a 5 from a 20 when you're shitfaced at the bar |
| 21:35.08 | Maloeran | Erik, some cocktail and fancy wine |
| 21:35.50 | Maloeran | I sure had a lot of trouble solving the Rubik's cube she gave me as wedding gift afterwards |
| 21:35.58 | ``Erik | I thought it was because most of it comes from 'monopoly' boxes |
| 21:36.05 | ``Erik | "fancy wine"? |
| 21:36.16 | ``Erik | "some cocktail"? |
| 21:36.32 | Maloeran | I know absolutely nothing of these things :) |
| 21:36.40 | louipc | dom perignon and some port |
| 21:36.47 | ``Erik | irish carbomb and thunderbird? O.o |
| 21:37.19 | Maloeran | Some wine at 180$ the bottle in any case, it was supposedly great according to the people present. I found the taste way too... aggressive |
| 21:37.28 | ``Erik | but 180... canadian... |
| 21:37.30 | louipc | oh damn |
| 21:37.35 | ``Erik | so that's, like |
| 21:37.39 | ``Erik | a buck fifty? thunderbird... |
| 21:37.41 | Maloeran | That's like 175USD these days, Erik :) |
| 21:37.43 | louipc | 179 american |
| 21:37.45 | louipc | :D |
| 21:37.46 | ``Erik | I know :( |
| 21:37.53 | ``Erik | *sigh* stupid fucking fucktard republicans |
| 21:38.47 | Maloeran | And it took me a good 4.5 hours to figure out the thing! |
| 21:38.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:38.58 | ``Erik | takes me like 3 minutes with any start position |
| 21:39.05 | ``Erik | just give me a flathead screwdriver and watch me go, yo |
| 21:39.11 | louipc | takes me... I don't even know how long |
| 21:39.15 | Maloeran | I had never studied the toy before, I'm sure I could do better next time |
| 21:39.21 | louipc | ``Erik: ah good one |
| 21:42.05 | louipc | like that? http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/18/rubik_4x4.jpg |
| 21:42.13 | ``Erik | heh, yes.. 2*n=2+n. Proof: n=2, 2*2 = 2+2, true. That's done, proven even! |
| 21:42.24 | ``Erik | go play some sudoku, boy :D |
| 21:42.40 | Maloeran | Sodoku is dreadfully boring :) |
| 21:43.03 | ``Erik | play aussie rules sudoku |
| 21:43.05 | ``Erik | full contact |
| 21:43.06 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:46.37 | dtidrow_work | lol |
| 21:47.11 | Maloeran | I have no idea what Sudoku full contact is, but I laughed too :) |
| 21:48.54 | dtidrow_work | heh - I was thinking about footy when I saw that :-) |
| 21:49.32 | dtidrow_work | (footy = aussie rules football) |
| 21:50.40 | Maloeran | People have already written 4d and even 5d Rubik's cubes |
| 21:50.51 | Maloeran | The 5 dimensions one frightens me |
| 21:50.54 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 21:51.07 | dtidrow_work | hard enough to think about a 4D cube... |
| 21:51.58 | louipc | yeah how the heck does that work? |
| 21:52.32 | dtidrow_work | no cule |
| 21:52.35 | dtidrow_work | clue |
| 21:53.08 | dtidrow_work | my brain hurts any time I think of something higher than 3D |
| 21:53.32 | Maloeran | In 4 dimensions, you would have 8 3d volumes, of which you must align the 54 cells |
| 21:53.58 | Maloeran | I can think of simple stuff in 4d, but a Rubik's cube is pushing a bit too far |
| 21:55.33 | dtidrow_work | indeed |
| 21:56.30 | louipc | 3d 'shadows' of 4d things are insane even |
| 21:56.54 | dtidrow_work | that I can kinda grok |
| 22:31.39 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 22:33.13 | yukonbob | hey cadders |
| 22:33.23 | ``Erik | potato |
| 22:33.36 | yukonbob | ~lart potato |
| 22:33.36 | ibot | whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that potato is stuck to the floor |
| 00:21.23 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 02:05.53 | starseeker | They're going to fight hard to insist on no internal copies of libraries. Grr... |
| 02:06.12 | starseeker | Or I should say, it may depend on who we can interest... |
| 02:07.16 | louipc | tell them to fix it then they'll turn around :D |
| 02:08.08 | louipc | on the other hand if they succeed great! |
| 02:09.30 | starseeker | Sean's got it in good shape - we just need to get TCL 8.5 and all its friends to release stable versions. |
| 02:10.22 | starseeker | I'm still unclear if there are one or two cases where it's just a full-on name conflict. |
| 02:11.00 | louipc | between 8.4 and 8.5? |
| 02:11.03 | starseeker | If we have to depend on an unstable tcl, brl-cad will remain masked. And it sounds like some of the Gentoo devs think that's how it shoudl be |
| 02:11.10 | starseeker | no, between other libs |
| 02:11.26 | louipc | oh you mean for installing in /usr/lib* |
| 02:11.31 | starseeker | I'm arguing for /usr/brlcad or /opt/brlcad for an install path, and a lot of them are going to want it in there |
| 02:11.51 | louipc | yeah I put it in /opt/brlcad for archlinux |
| 02:12.00 | starseeker | It's simpler and safer. |
| 02:12.21 | starseeker | And if tcl 8.5 isn't available, I want to use the internal version rather than fail. That didn't seem to sit well either. |
| 02:12.23 | louipc | it thought that gentoo used /opt for large packages like brlcad |
| 02:12.25 | starseeker | Sigh. |
| 02:12.32 | louipc | java... dunno what else qt? |
| 02:12.36 | starseeker | The policy I saw said binaries only |
| 02:12.41 | louipc | oh heh |
| 02:12.49 | starseeker | We could have an ebuild for the binary build of BRL-CAD I suppose... |
| 02:12.54 | starseeker | seems a shame though |
| 02:13.02 | louipc | it's been a year since i've used gentoo! haha |
| 02:13.07 | louipc | actually not yet a year |
| 02:13.25 | starseeker | archlinux work better? |
| 02:13.25 | louipc | have both! |
| 02:13.33 | louipc | archlinux is awesome |
| 02:13.43 | starseeker | I find gentoo very clean and well integrated |
| 02:13.50 | louipc | I don't have to waste my time compiling every single package |
| 02:13.54 | starseeker | just a bit stubborn about package management ;-) |
| 02:14.13 | louipc | yikes I found gentoo to be quite messy |
| 02:14.19 | starseeker | really? |
| 02:14.22 | louipc | but I hear that they've improved |
| 02:14.28 | starseeker | I guess I'm mental ;-) |
| 02:14.48 | louipc | yeah portage would mess up my system every once in awhile if I tried to --sync |
| 02:14.53 | starseeker | ah |
| 02:15.02 | louipc | need to completely reinstall |
| 02:15.03 | starseeker | yeah, they had a few bad moments a while back. |
| 02:15.21 | starseeker | I had to completely reinstall after putting BRL-CAD in /usr ;-) |
| 02:15.38 | louipc | and I have a PIII 866MHz so compiling every damned thing was a PAIN |
| 02:15.59 | louipc | starseeker: ouch |
| 02:16.05 | starseeker | I'm hoping the guy I was arguing with in #gentoo will hop onto the bug for the ebuild and Sean can hang him out to dry ;-) |
| 02:16.07 | Maloeran | Gentoo is like Linux from Scratch with package management, it's not bad for developpers or people who know what they are doing |
| 02:16.18 | louipc | starseeker: ;) |
| 02:16.19 | starseeker | louipc: ouch |
| 02:16.42 | starseeker | Heh - I've got a nice fast P4 now (my old machine died, probably to excessive code compiling) |
| 02:17.47 | starseeker | 8 cores?? You young whippersnappers, in my day we lived with one core so primitive it didn't even need it's own power feed, and we liked it! |
| 02:17.48 | louipc | yeah I was thinking Gentoo might be better viewed as an automatic-distro-making tool |
| 02:18.14 | starseeker | I've got two cores now, and I'm still getting used to how nice it is. |
| 02:18.33 | louipc | I think I'm getting a laptop next |
| 02:18.39 | starseeker | Thought I was buying one core - heh, was rather surprised when gkrellm popped up two displays ;-) |
| 02:18.44 | louipc | dual core |
| 02:18.51 | louipc | sweet |
| 02:18.54 | Maloeran | I still had Gentoo fall apart in horrible ways, more than once. The last time was when I emerged a 32 bits X emulation library, and just that killed PAM ( can no longuer log in ), deleted fsck, and plenty of other "system" packages |
| 02:19.08 | starseeker | Owowowow |
| 02:19.20 | Maloeran | I never understood how that happened, but it's kind of bothersome. For anyone who doesn't know Linux in depth, that would be a pain to fix |
| 02:19.28 | starseeker | No kidding. |
| 02:20.01 | starseeker | Usually in situations that extreme, I would get out the install CD, boot it, mount the partitions without starting the install steps, and then start debuggind using the CD environment |
| 02:20.08 | louipc | yeah it sucks when you can't even find the problem and you have to reinstall. it's like you've been defeated |
| 02:20.14 | starseeker | amazing flexible and powerful - saved my tail a number of times |
| 02:20.31 | Maloeran | Yes... I just plugged the hard drive in another box and fixed the mess there |
| 02:20.40 | starseeker | BRL-CAD took the cake though - even revdep-rebuild didn't fix it. |
| 02:21.31 | louipc | how many gentoo devs are there? |
| 02:21.56 | starseeker | A fair number, but probably less than are needed for the software they have listed. Debian does better there. |
| 02:22.17 | louipc | debian hardly releases though hah |
| 02:22.23 | starseeker | Heh - true |
| 02:23.07 | starseeker | The distros are too used to small packages that can easily follow their rules - when it comes to things like Axiom, BRL-CAD, OpenDX, GRASS, etc. it becomes much more difficult |
| 02:24.05 | louipc | haha yeah I was telling an archlinux dev and he was saying 'oh no it's easy to make packages' |
| 02:24.19 | louipc | and I said 'yeah usually, but not THIS one' |
| 02:24.34 | louipc | starseeker: never! |
| 02:24.55 | starseeker | louipc: Of course, what was I thinking - we wouldn't have a decent text editor |
| 02:25.33 | starseeker | Just curious - what do y'all think about literate programming? |
| 02:25.56 | louipc | what's that? |
| 02:26.30 | starseeker | Donald Knuth developed it - it's a programming philosophy where source code and text are woven together in a single document, intended for human readibility |
| 02:26.38 | starseeker | readability sorry |
| 02:26.51 | starseeker | The TeX typesetting system is created in that fashion |
| 02:27.01 | starseeker | you can buy the TeX source code in book form |
| 02:27.36 | Maloeran | I find source code perfectly readable by itself, as I think most good programmers would |
| 02:28.03 | louipc | a philosophy where you comment code nicely and use good variable and function names? |
| 02:29.50 | starseeker | Well... here's an example: |
| 02:30.00 | starseeker | hang on, gotta find it... |
| 02:32.04 | starseeker | http://portal.axiom-developer.org/Members/starseeker/cl-web-v0.8.lisp.pdf/download |
| 02:33.44 | starseeker | I guess I like the idea of having thinks like citations to mathematical research for mathematical code, etc. |
| 02:34.26 | louipc | so it's a class of computer language eh? |
| 02:35.18 | louipc | programming language rather |
| 02:36.03 | Maloeran | Looks like a lot to read to understand the concept... but I'm really skeptical of the idea |
| 02:36.05 | starseeker | not really - just a mark-up convention that allows source code extraction |
| 02:36.25 | starseeker | Many people don't care for it |
| 02:36.36 | starseeker | It might be that it is only really appropriate for special situations |
| 02:36.52 | louipc | well it makes sense kind of |
| 02:37.16 | louipc | I might use something like doxygen otherwise |
| 02:37.53 | starseeker | http://www.literateprogramming.com/ might be a good place as an intro |
| 02:38.47 | starseeker | Maloeran: It's only really useful to those who don't intimately understand the code, or perhaps the coding language |
| 02:39.32 | Maloeran | *nods* Right |
| 02:39.49 | starseeker | it has a certain appeal for open source (and particularly for Axiom, where a lot of the code is complex mathematics) where you have many developers who need to quickly understand both the code and the reasons for writing the code the way it was written |
| 02:39.51 | Maloeran | I'm not generally fond of documentation, it's good for high-level stuff, but the low-level source code should speak by itself |
| 02:40.12 | louipc | well documentation can save time rather than having to go over every line of code to understand what it does |
| 02:40.20 | Maloeran | That's high-level documentation, yes |
| 02:40.47 | starseeker | cl-web is a parser for literate documents, itself written as a literate document. |
| 02:41.18 | starseeker | the idea is almost anyone with a basic Lisp knowledge could read it and know how and why. |
| 02:41.52 | starseeker | In the end Axiom will probably use a more flexible system, but it was a good exercise ;-) |
| 02:42.00 | Maloeran | Perhaps it's just me, but I find it faster and clearer to read the actual source code than most typical low-level documentation found within the source |
| 02:42.29 | Maloeran | It seems to mostly get in the way, taking screen space... until you run a script to strip all comments out |
| 02:43.32 | starseeker | Depending on the goal and context this is true. One of the most able Axiom developers (able to read straight code) ended up forking the code base to avoid the drive towards literate programming |
| 02:43.38 | louipc | literal programming probably does a better job there the way it sounds |
| 02:43.40 | starseeker | (among other reasons) |
| 02:44.09 | starseeker | Mathematics has a way of creating maximally confusing code, I think ;-) |
| 02:45.39 | louipc | looks like it's just a different way to write code actually might be less verbose than the lower level stuff... |
| 02:45.43 | starseeker | more complex literate tools that are tightly integrated with a compiler can do tricks like reporting where in the document to find code that uses any particular code - a densely hyperlinked document. |
| 02:46.20 | starseeker | I think Knuth's tools were like that, but the problem with those tools is they become specific to one language. |
| 02:46.22 | louipc | print Hello there |
| 02:46.39 | louipc | rather than printf("Hello there"); |
| 02:47.19 | starseeker | No, in that case the grammar for your first part would end up being so long the space saved wouldn't pay for itself ;-) |
| 02:47.31 | Maloeran | I still prefer to see logic presented in code rather than in a maths form, but... that's just a matter of experience with code algorithms versus maths |
| 02:48.10 | starseeker | That's quite true. Axiom is a special case, as it is a computer algebra system - many of its primary contributors would (hopefully) be mathematicians first and coders second |
| 02:48.23 | starseeker | in such a case, making the code close to the mathematics is logical |
| 02:48.42 | Maloeran | Right, makes sense |
| 02:49.58 | starseeker | Also, if Axiom manages to outlive all of its original developers, it may someday be critical to survival for less skilled coders to be able to understand it and work with it |
| 02:50.19 | starseeker | That's my idealistic side showing ;-) |
| 02:50.47 | louipc | less skilled will get more skilled if they're determined enough :D |
| 03:03.07 | starseeker | night all ;-) |
| 03:17.04 | ``Erik | http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1599962 that's walking distance from where I used to live in missouri O.o |
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| 14:32.44 | MinuteElectron | Good afternoon all. |
| 14:32.58 | MinuteElectron | It appears my connection troubles have evaporated. :) |
| 14:35.01 | brlcad | sweet |
| 14:36.27 | ``Erik | brlcad, staying in for lunch? |
| 14:51.45 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: You work in the same office as brlcad? |
| 14:52.56 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o MinuteElectron] by ChanServ | |
| 14:54.45 | Maloeran | They do, yes |
| 14:55.05 | MinuteElectron | Ooh, cool. |
| 14:55.37 | ``Erik | same building, same team... not the same physical office, though :) |
| 14:56.58 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 14:57.25 | MinuteElectron | ... |
| 15:20.43 | ``Erik | we have 2-3 person offices, not a cube farm... :) |
| 15:21.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (364 files in 43 dirs): removed trailing whitespace |
| 15:22.04 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: So you get paid to do this? |
| 15:22.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (1102 files in 65 dirs): removed trailing whitespace |
| 15:22.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (538 files in 44 dirs): removed trailing whitespace |
| 15:22.50 | ``Erik | yup |
| 15:23.07 | MinuteElectron | nice |
| 15:23.15 | ``Erik | *shrug* it's a yob |
| 15:23.27 | MinuteElectron | yob? |
| 15:23.30 | ``Erik | job |
| 15:23.30 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:23.35 | MinuteElectron | oh, right. |
| 15:23.36 | ``Erik | mehican style O.o |
| 15:42.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: use AM_LDFLAGS instead of user-settable LDFLAGS |
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| 17:32.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: eliminate trailing whitespace in g2asc output |
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| 17:44.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): change c++/c99 "//" comments to more portable c89 /* */ comments |
| 17:47.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h: change c++/c99 "//" comments to more portable c89 /* */ comments |
| 17:51.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl: |
| 17:51.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Greenwald identified a bug in tab expansion. I could not reproduce the segfault |
| 17:51.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: that he saw, but did add a check for an open database before attempting |
| 17:51.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: object expansion, and a check for a valid path prior to expansion. |
| 17:52.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: pad out multi-line and doxygen comments |
| 18:09.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/htester.c: cast to fix incompatible pointer warning |
| 18:11.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change various ints and longs to size_t for pointer/offset stuff |
| 18:16.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: need common.h for config.h defines |
| 18:16.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/coswin.c: include stdlib.h for malloc() |
| 18:24.26 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.42 | ``Erik | minute... about? |
| 18:25.24 | MinuteElectron | Who you work for :D |
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| 18:25.54 | ``Erik | army research lab |
| 18:26.23 | MinuteElectron | And does john work at the same place as erik. And if so is erik a lower ranking officer than erik (you get refered to as 'Greenwald' XD) |
| 18:26.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:26.34 | MinuteElectron | I ask too many qquestions. |
| 18:26.53 | MinuteElectron | And does brlc ad work at the same place as erik and john. |
| 18:27.17 | ``Erik | kinda |
| 18:27.24 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 18:27.46 | ``Erik | john is technically on a different team... one I used to be on... there was a split, I went on the sucky side of it, but I moved back to the side that does cad |
| 18:28.26 | ``Erik | but all of johns BRL-CAD contributions these days are donated work in his spare time, he's not getting paid for it and the pointy hairs can go fuck themselves if they dont' like what he's doing :D |
| 18:28.37 | MinuteElectron | heh |
| 18:57.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor cleanup |
| 19:22.09 | brlcad | several of the files also necessarily had dos line endings, did you check that they weren't "fixed"? |
| 19:29.06 | brlcad | gah, and your tclIndex files are wrong |
| 19:31.36 | ``Erik | eh? |
| 19:31.45 | brlcad | ``Erik: you need to fix/revert the tclIndex file changes .. for whatever reason, the system you committed from is blowing most of the indices away |
| 19:32.21 | ``Erik | hrmmm |
| 19:33.00 | brlcad | looks like all of the incr tcl indices are gone |
| 19:33.05 | ``Erik | hrmmm, musta missed those when skimming the diff |
| 19:34.41 | brlcad | there's not really any point to "cleaning up" the src/other files.. just makes merging an incremental update harder, their code their mess |
| 19:35.26 | ``Erik | yeah *shrug* it was a one-liner, it walked into other, updating in other just blows away what is there, so'z I didn't worry about it :/ |
| 19:35.27 | brlcad | that's why there was a ton in src/other, but not much in the rest of the package .. there's a ws script that does the cleanup/exclusions automatically |
| 19:36.15 | brlcad | that's my point, it's not always a blow-away update .. sometimes it's a patch applied |
| 19:36.19 | brlcad | that just causes conflicts |
| 19:36.58 | ``Erik | heh, and admin -o will probably mess up the cvs2svn script? |
| 19:37.15 | brlcad | nah, don't admin it |
| 19:37.21 | brlcad | it's fine .. just for "next time" |
| 19:37.50 | ``Erik | I mean the tclIndex stuff atm |
| 19:42.25 | brlcad | hm, i'd just revert cleanly |
| 19:42.47 | brlcad | ala cvs revert -j 1.3 -j 1.2 tclIndex.tcl, etc.. |
| 19:43.07 | brlcad | used to have a script that got the last revision, and reverted to the previous .. but pretty quick to do by hand too |
| 19:43.26 | ``Erik | 'revert'? O.o |
| 19:43.51 | ``Erik | merge? |
| 19:43.54 | brlcad | hm? |
| 19:44.05 | ``Erik | revert isn't a cvs command... are ya thinkin' svn? |
| 19:44.16 | brlcad | oh, typo |
| 19:44.18 | brlcad | update |
| 19:44.28 | brlcad | svn has revert |
| 19:44.50 | brlcad | cvs update, join from 1.3 to 1.2 |
| 19:45.10 | brlcad | i.e., revert back one (presuming 1.3 was head rev) |
| 19:45.12 | ``Erik | <-- was doing 'cvs -z3 update -pr 1.2 tclIndex > tclIndex', the merge update seems to do the samet hing |
| 19:46.49 | brlcad | ah, hm .. I'd be afraid of cvs dying on the pipe wiping out the file it was reading from |
| 19:46.58 | brlcad | at least for some older versions |
| 19:47.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (7 files in 7 dirs): re-add indices accidently clobbered when removing trailing whitespace. My bad. |
| 19:47.35 | brlcad | s/pipe/output redir/ |
| 19:47.37 | ``Erik | heh, since it's a reversion, it doesn't matter... if the pipe craps itself, run it again, it's still in the repo |
| 19:47.49 | ``Erik | stream, whatever |
| 19:56.11 | ``Erik | probably just drift from printing floating point numbers |
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| 20:07.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (17 files in 11 dirs): |
| 20:07.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: The c89 headers are all fair game since it's been a requirement since the move |
| 20:07.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: to ANSI c89 compliance. So.. remove the HAVE_STDLIB_H checks and just use the |
| 20:07.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: header. The headers <complex.h>, <fenv.h>, <inttypes.h>, <stdbool.h>, |
| 20:07.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: <stdint.h>, and <tgmath.h> were added with C99 and still need to be checked. |
| 20:07.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: There are several other c89 headers that we could just use, though, that are |
| 20:07.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: still being checked. |
| 20:08.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, that's a nasty tolerance bug .. kudos if you figure out why :) |
| 20:09.48 | brlcad | it probably is just drift, but when you push it through again, you're pushing through a v5 asc which has more digits than the v4 it started from so it shouldn't be different |
| 20:13.23 | iraytrace | Looks like a commit storm in the logs today ;0) |
| 20:17.55 | brlcad | all hail the 'ws' commits |
| 20:20.47 | ``Erik | but I got a bunch of non-ws commits in, too |
| 21:44.28 | poolio_ | hmm, quite off topic but I was wondering if any of you guys knew of some sort of dynamics simulator...like an aerodynamics simulator where i could throw in an object and get something like a drag coefficient back |
| 21:44.51 | brlcad | er, the flight simulator has things for that |
| 21:44.56 | brlcad | s/er/hmm/ |
| 21:45.28 | brlcad | http://www.flightgear.org/ |
| 21:45.56 | brlcad | not sure if you could do a single wing, but it does the computations and you can feed custom geometry |
| 21:57.03 | poolio_ | hmm, thanks |
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| 23:05.38 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:05.48 | ``Erik | flightgear has a couple coarse emulation models |
| 23:05.57 | ``Erik | that require experiemental details entered |
| 23:06.03 | ``Erik | jsim and uhhh something else |
| 23:06.20 | ``Erik | xplane uses 'blade theory' to generate force sums, there're plenty of papers on the idea |
| 23:09.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: might as well also list the c89 and c95 headers |
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| 23:18.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/wdb_obj.c mged/ged.c): don't bother checking for errno.h, it's c89 |
| 23:31.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/ged.c): don't check for errno.h, we can assume at least c89 compliance |
| 23:41.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 5 dirs): math.h and float.h are also fair game, c89 baby |
| 00:15.51 | ``Erik | what about non-complient c89 compilers? ;( |
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| 03:00.47 | brlcad | the can die in their own obsolescense .. the code has to keep moving forward |
| 03:02.14 | brlcad | that was an astounding 18 years ago, way past time |
| 03:03.14 | brlcad | it'd be easier to get a modern compiler to work under cross-compilation than it would be to keep the baggage of the ancient compilers indefinitely |
| 03:07.43 | brlcad | c89 conformance was adopted like 3 years ago anyways, just getting around to those particular edits .. there's *plenty* of other stuff in the code that requires c89 |
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| 03:23.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltConfig.h: |
| 03:23.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: since we don't call blt's configure, make sure it knows that the c89 headers are |
| 03:23.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: presumed. this is intentionally here and not in the top-level configure to |
| 03:23.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prevent repropagation of their use in the rest of the code. blt should be a |
| 03:23.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: subconfigure. |
| 03:27.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (8 files in 6 dirs): limits.h, locale.h, setjmp.g, and signal.h now all assumed as well as part of ongoing c89 migration. |
| 03:28.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/common.h: oops, but the genie back in the bottle. these don't need to go here. |
| 03:29.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't need the define for blt now that it defines what it needs in its own config header |
| 03:42.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): no longer need to conditionally check for time.h (or stddef.h) prior to use per c89 |
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| 16:23.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (475 files in 49 dirs): |
| 16:23.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: more c89 embracing. c89 provides string.h for all of the various str*() and |
| 16:23.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: mem*() functions, so remove the check for its presence. there is still likely |
| 16:23.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: to be work required for strict c89 conformance for the various bsd strings.h |
| 16:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: functions that may be in use. |
| 17:06.20 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
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| 17:29.32 | brlcad | hmm, can't cvs update |
| 17:29.50 | brlcad | anyone doing a commit at the moment or something? |
| 17:36.21 | yukonbob | what's shaking, brlcad? |
| 17:38.03 | brlcad | oh, I was coding and working on the website |
| 17:38.26 | brlcad | but now cvs has some update problem, so that's stonewalled |
| 17:40.05 | louipc | I updated ok maybe 30 min ago |
| 17:43.02 | brlcad | does it work for you now? |
| 17:43.34 | brlcad | maybe it's just sourceforge saying I need to eat something |
| 17:43.46 | louipc | seems like it did |
| 17:43.56 | louipc | didn't say there was a lock on anything |
| 17:44.04 | brlcad | just now? |
| 17:44.42 | louipc | yep |
| 17:44.55 | brlcad | ah, are you on anonymous? |
| 17:45.00 | louipc | yeah |
| 17:45.09 | brlcad | maybe that's why |
| 17:47.36 | ``Erik | anonymous is on a different server, sf does an rsync or something to the anon servers |
| 17:47.59 | brlcad | they unified them a year ago |
| 17:47.59 | louipc | oh |
| 17:48.12 | louipc | hmm! |
| 17:48.19 | brlcad | but the permissions are still different |
| 17:48.23 | brlcad | obviously |
| 17:49.55 | louipc | I just did checkout without problem |
| 17:57.18 | poolio_ | same. |
| 17:57.28 | brlcad | hm, checkout fails for me across the board |
| 17:57.36 | brlcad | even on separate hosts |
| 18:00.24 | brlcad | can someone try to make a commit |
| 18:01.14 | iraytrace | Hang on, let me update and I'll do a commit |
| 18:03.30 | iraytrace | It's still thinking... |
| 18:03.34 | iraytrace | done |
| 18:03.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: just a commit test |
| 18:04.09 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 18:04.29 | brlcad | here's what I'm seeing: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m12d73f4b |
| 18:05.22 | iraytrace | Um, that dir is the one I just did a commit into. Was this before or after my commit finished? |
| 18:05.51 | brlcad | i get that for any dir |
| 18:06.07 | iraytrace | woah! |
| 18:06.45 | iraytrace | That looks like a problem with your account. |
| 18:06.49 | brlcad | oh well, I'll let sf sort it out .. probably some funky cvs staleness issue related to commits earlier today specific to my user |
| 18:06.52 | iraytrace | Have you tried creating a new repository? |
| 18:07.01 | brlcad | yep, gives me perm denied on checkout |
| 18:07.17 | iraytrace | That's def. an SF issue then |
| 18:13.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in: sgi make doesn't like the bad makefile syntax (line separator leading to an empty line) |
| 18:13.27 | brlcad | that's even more weird.. I can commit, which still gives a permissions error, but it completes |
| 20:03.41 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Any luck with LDAP? |
| 22:53.52 | ``Erik | neat, sf broke stuff good :D |
| 22:54.07 | ``Erik | be interesting to see the guts of how that broke O.o |
| 23:17.37 | iraytrace | Indeed, that would be neat. |
| 23:17.51 | iraytrace | Probably just a reboot of their LDAP if I had to guess |
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| 01:59.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
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| 02:04.02 | starseeker | brlcad, you on? |
| 02:04.40 | louipc | what's up |
| 02:05.13 | starseeker | Question on "pic" |
| 02:05.20 | starseeker | what is it? |
| 02:05.32 | starseeker | I'm not sure whether to add it to the USE flags or just turn it on |
| 02:05.52 | starseeker | I could dig, but it's quicker to ask here as it's getting late and I want to try a build ;-) |
| 02:06.55 | starseeker | The gentoo ebuild policy has something about always using "pic" but I'm not sure if that's the same thing or not. |
| 02:07.38 | louipc | pic? I'm not sure |
| 02:10.53 | brlcad | starseeker: it's not a big deal -- it's fine on or off |
| 02:11.09 | starseeker | brlcad: Cool - thanks :-) |
| 02:11.10 | brlcad | you can get away with it on linux |
| 02:11.57 | brlcad | using --with-pic should potentially cut about 40% off the compile-time |
| 02:11.58 | starseeker | We might have a time if it with the ebuild - it sounds like the gentoo devs (some of them anyway) may not like the idea of internal versions of tcl/tk/etc |
| 02:12.07 | starseeker | works for me! :-) :-) |
| 02:13.02 | brlcad | using either --with or --without will cut the time -- the default is to compile both with and without PIC |
| 02:13.23 | brlcad | that's a libtool behavior, to guarantee portable libraries |
| 02:13.49 | louipc | oh wow I should use that then... it takes forever for me to compile |
| 02:15.47 | starseeker | brlcad: Looking at other ebuilds, I am seeing behavior where the prefix is being set as --prefix=${D}/usr/program in order to let portage do its thing of building in a temp directory and then do a final copy the install dir. Will this be a problem for any of the binaries? |
| 02:16.27 | brlcad | potentially, not clear |
| 02:16.49 | starseeker | OK. Nothing like trying :-) |
| 02:16.52 | brlcad | tools that have to find resources rely on the prefix-path as a search-path base for finding data resources |
| 02:17.10 | brlcad | they'll also search based on where the binary is, so it "should" still find what it needs |
| 02:17.15 | brlcad | if mged works, then it's fine |
| 02:17.16 | louipc | I used DESTDIR to install to a directory that I can then use to tar up the pkg |
| 02:17.48 | brlcad | DESTDIR is fine, because that's during make .. the path is already fixed during configure |
| 02:17.52 | louipc | yep |
| 02:18.45 | starseeker | hang on, phone... |
| 02:46.50 | louipc | dang cvs update doesn't pull in new directories! |
| 02:46.59 | starseeker | isn't that fun? |
| 02:49.04 | louipc | I wouldn't care about switching the world, only the projects I'd develop in. That's possible |
| 02:52.29 | louipc | haha cvs can't delete directories either |
| 03:28.00 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 03:30.42 | starseeker | Me mutters under his breath and tries again to create a patch that patch will accept... |
| 03:53.38 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace_ (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 03:53.43 | louipc | uh! |
| 03:55.57 | starseeker | OK, after some arm twisting one of the guys on gentoo-dev-help conceded that a non-binary in /opt seemed a bit dubious but to try it if it was the simplest thing. |
| 03:59.05 | louipc | gentoo has no provisions for mondo packages that have their own libs? |
| 03:59.19 | louipc | I know tons of java pkgs re package java libs |
| 03:59.49 | starseeker | The gentoo philosophy is usually to "fix" the package so it can use system libs. |
| 04:01.22 | louipc | yeah that's ideal but is not always that possible. |
| 04:02.00 | starseeker | Yes. Unfortunately convincing folks that BRL-CAD is worth the exception may take a little arm twisting. |
| 04:02.42 | louipc | well BRL-CAD could always host the ebuild :D |
| 04:02.53 | starseeker | I guess if we have to ;-) |
| 04:03.05 | louipc | aren't there any rogue gentoo repos out there? |
| 04:03.16 | starseeker | Oh sure, there's even one specific to science packages |
| 04:03.24 | starseeker | but that wouldn't be in the "official" gentoo |
| 04:03.28 | brlcad | there's only a few options -- you either backport to 8.4 with a patchset, use 8.5*whatever* that we provide, use an 8.5* already in gentoo, or wait for 8.5 final |
| 04:03.31 | louipc | I know there are some portage tools other than 'emerge' for building/installing |
| 04:03.53 | starseeker | Usually the thing to do is use overlays |
| 04:04.06 | louipc | oh yeah I heard about that too |
| 04:04.17 | starseeker | brlcad: I think we should be OK in opt - we'll just pretend we're a really hard to install binary ;-) |
| 04:04.36 | brlcad | we can't install into /usr regardless |
| 04:04.47 | brlcad | there are conflicts that cannot be changed |
| 04:05.02 | starseeker | Right. IIRC, there are at least one or two cases where there are name conflicts with libraries having different purposes? |
| 04:05.25 | brlcad | there's more than two, although some are more obscure than others |
| 04:05.48 | starseeker | I'm going to attempt a "proper" /opt ebuild with the /etc settings and everything. Will /opt be OK for the Army's modules? |
| 04:05.55 | brlcad | all of our libs predate the ones we conflict with but that doesn't make the conflict any less problematic |
| 04:06.06 | starseeker | Right :-) |
| 04:07.03 | starseeker | Still building, no failures yet... it's like waiting for the other shoe to drop ;-) |
| 04:07.08 | brlcad | libbu, libbn, librt are the core conflicting ones that come to mind, they're part of brl-cad's geometric core and for various integration reasons are not likely to ever change, not that we'd want to change them |
| 04:08.16 | starseeker | Right. |
| 04:09.06 | brlcad | libbn conflicts with an internal library in OpenSSL iirc; librt conflicts with a deprecated real-time linux kernel library |
| 04:09.22 | brlcad | forget what libbu conflicts with, and google isn't helping -- that one was probably minor |
| 04:09.31 | brlcad | librt is the biggie, though |
| 04:09.52 | brlcad | that's are most important library and it conflicts with a kernel library |
| 04:09.54 | starseeker | I can probably check my revdep-rebuild report - that was pretty comprehensive, if at bit redundant... |
| 04:10.27 | brlcad | the library is fortunately "dead" and slowly being removed, so in 5-10 years it won't be a problem, but in the meantime it is |
| 04:11.23 | brlcad | libbn's probably something we possibly could sort out with the openssh folks, but it's still daunting when there are user-space binaries to sort out too |
| 04:11.38 | brlcad | since after-all, we could always just install libs into /usr/lib/brlcad/. |
| 04:11.44 | starseeker | Right. |
| 04:12.23 | starseeker | That may be a trick even in /opt - we can append /opt/brlcad/bin to the path but the other binaries will take precedence |
| 04:12.49 | brlcad | there are several user binaries that conflict, but most of those can be readily changed/renamed on our part (e.g. the 'wall' command that generates a geometric wall conflicts with the old "write a message to all users" command") |
| 04:13.18 | brlcad | i wouldn't care if the other binaries took precendence |
| 04:13.34 | brlcad | users that really care will find out pretty quickly if they really need that tool (unlikely) |
| 04:13.47 | starseeker | OK - I think that has to do with the ordering of the directories in the $PATH variable. |
| 04:13.51 | brlcad | there's only a handful, and last I checked they were pretty minor |
| 04:13.55 | starseeker | Gentoo will probably do the right thing by default |
| 04:14.02 | louipc | enigma hehe |
| 04:14.25 | starseeker | Well the build completed successfully, but the install command didn't like something. |
| 04:14.36 | starseeker | trying again without the $D prefix... |
| 04:15.20 | brlcad | if we really wanted to get fancy, brl-cad is really a suite of tools and would be broken up into somewhere between a dozen to a couple hundred different ebuilds |
| 04:16.04 | starseeker | Hehe. I doubt that would be worth it for quite a while - if people start using regularly a subset of BRL-CAD that might make sense. |
| 04:16.16 | brlcad | e.g. brl-cad's rt ray-tracer, mged modeler, image manipulators, ttcp, framebuffer tools, benchmark suite, archer modeler, etc etc |
| 04:16.18 | louipc | I know some people who've done that with other packages |
| 04:16.28 | brlcad | starseeker: yep, I quite agree |
| 04:16.29 | louipc | like perl CPAN |
| 04:16.39 | starseeker | CPAN is a headache |
| 04:16.58 | louipc | a dozen would be OK though |
| 04:17.05 | starseeker | Lisp has those problems too - I maintain my own asdf archive of lisp libraries |
| 04:17.37 | brlcad | ttcp is a good example, though -- it's a tool that's pretty brief, probably already in ebuild, yet technically we have the sources to it |
| 04:17.53 | brlcad | it's just one of the 405 or so |
| 04:18.55 | starseeker | That might be worth doing at some point. Just curious - was the main purpose of including these libraries to insulate BRL-CAD from changes which might impact the correctness of the program, or to make sure it built successfully on a variety of targets? |
| 04:19.07 | brlcad | yep, http://gentoo-portage.com/net-analyzer/ttcp/ |
| 04:20.18 | brlcad | starseeker: primarily because not every platform we support and build on has a convenient package management system, it's for user-convenience |
| 04:20.47 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 04:20.57 | brlcad | reduces support headaches substantially, and really just makes compilation go a whole lot smoother when you don't have to worry about getting X, Y, Z, etc before being able to build |
| 04:21.04 | starseeker | Very true. |
| 04:21.20 | brlcad | we merely just do the download for you, whether it uses it or not is entirely up to build settings and configuration |
| 04:21.56 | starseeker | One possibility I've seen before - if you have two tarballs - one with BRL-CAD, and one with supporting libraries, you can opt either to expand just brlcad or brlcad and brlcad-support to cover the two cases. |
| 04:22.34 | brlcad | i mean if you know it's required, and you're giving someone your code .. it seems utterly absurd to me that they have to go hunting all over the net for those required dependencies, have to deal with the various headaches of getting that dependency to build and do so *recursively* |
| 04:23.02 | brlcad | it puts some burden on our devs to make sure we bundle it cleanly and have the proper configure tests, but we generally do that once |
| 04:23.31 | brlcad | and for the folks that *do* have a package management system, it still "just works" and can be all disabled |
| 04:23.41 | louipc | well it's not so bad with smaller pkgs with only 1 or 2 deps :D |
| 04:24.30 | brlcad | even bigger packages have the problem too though, like building gnome by hand, for example .. that's just utter hell |
| 04:25.06 | louipc | ooh gnucash! hahah |
| 04:25.23 | starseeker | Or best of all, mplayer |
| 04:25.24 | brlcad | starseeker: i've seen that with the two-packages.. but what's the point? it's just a few megs of disk space and would require additional "are the files there" checks |
| 04:26.01 | starseeker | brlcad: My take on it is the same - stick 'em in and use 'em if needed. It seems to bug some people, but I don't really think it's a big deal in this day and age. |
| 04:26.28 | brlcad | i'm continually amazed by how many people are bothered just that the files are 'there' .. |
| 04:26.48 | starseeker | maybe someone is trying to get BRL-CAD onto an embedded system ;-) |
| 04:26.49 | louipc | yeah people have more disk space and bandwidth these days |
| 04:27.17 | brlcad | the package requires over a GB to compile under most configurations, if you're worried about the 20MB or so that the unused dependencies take up, you've got way bigger problems |
| 04:28.36 | starseeker | Heh - an embedded CAD system. Finally, something worse than Emacs to embed |
| 04:28.57 | brlcad | most of our tools would work with exceptionally limited resources, I think even classic mged only requires a couple MB at most then it just limits the size of the model you can load |
| 04:29.38 | starseeker | That would be great, but what would we do for a text editor? :-P |
| 04:30.08 | starseeker | Actually, I think Emacs is long overdue for a cleanup and re-factoring. |
| 04:30.37 | brlcad | you could have an mged major mode for geometry editing, a g-file major mode for traversing geometry files, hook into all the various ray-tracers just the same, maybe even overlay a framebuffer if emacs is running under X |
| 04:31.00 | starseeker | Hmm. |
| 04:31.08 | louipc | starseeker: haha that would be a job wouldn't it? |
| 04:31.27 | louipc | well you could get a team of 3 people to live to 100 |
| 04:31.28 | starseeker | Wait, are we talking about an Emacs mode or porting BRL-CAD to emacs? |
| 04:31.45 | louipc | emacs re-factoring? |
| 04:31.51 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 04:31.55 | brlcad | what's the difference, everything is a mode under the hood to emacs |
| 04:32.39 | starseeker | brlcad: True |
| 04:32.56 | starseeker | er s/has has/has had |
| 04:33.03 | starseeker | quick, to the caffeine! |
| 04:33.16 | brlcad | i mean there's a ton of wrapper/glue code you'd have, but it would all boil down to a handful of major and minor modes to the user |
| 04:33.39 | brlcad | not even that complicated really, mged is pretty well suited |
| 04:34.14 | brlcad | would sort of be like having dired-mode and gdb-mode |
| 04:34.25 | brlcad | just instead g-mode and mged-mode |
| 04:35.12 | starseeker | Boy would that ever be wild. |
| 04:35.47 | brlcad | would be a great little project for some student |
| 04:35.56 | starseeker | Indeed. |
| 04:36.07 | brlcad | i'd pay for that myself if someone was motivated :) |
| 04:36.17 | starseeker | Hehe. |
| 04:36.53 | brlcad | heh no |
| 04:37.06 | starseeker | At least it's using GTK now. |
| 04:37.07 | brlcad | i meant personally pay :) |
| 04:37.11 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 04:37.45 | starseeker | Maybe it was just me but between open-motif, lesstif, and Emacs there always seemed to be a little bit of an argument going on... |
| 04:37.51 | brlcad | there are 'other priorities' at yonder funding agency that are often not the same as those of the project at large or the open source or solid modeling communities |
| 04:38.00 | brlcad | everyone has their own needs that they want fulfilled |
| 04:38.02 | starseeker | Makes sense :-) |
| 04:40.13 | brlcad | the gui is our biggest problem |
| 04:40.38 | starseeker | Hehe - gentoo spit out a "QA" notice... |
| 04:40.39 | brlcad | i'm trying to make a change there, but there are several pieces of the puzzle that are involved |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | starseeker | showshot.c:122: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ?strlen? |
| 04:40.54 | starseeker | brlcad: I can imagine. |
| 04:41.01 | starseeker | Axiom has similar problems. |
| 04:41.49 | brlcad | hm, that's odd -- it's not implicit -- it includes string.h |
| 04:42.55 | brlcad | strcpy is c89, it better |
| 04:43.13 | starseeker | cyapp@localhost ~ $ grep strcpy /usr/include/string.h |
| 04:43.14 | starseeker | extern char *strcpy (char *__restrict __dest, __const char *__restrict __src) |
| 04:43.29 | starseeker | Huh. Weird. |
| 04:43.45 | brlcad | what's your #include section at the top look like? |
| 04:44.07 | starseeker | you mean on showshot.c? |
| 04:44.09 | brlcad | yeah |
| 04:44.42 | starseeker | which directory is it in? |
| 04:44.52 | brlcad | src/nirt/shotshot.c |
| 04:44.56 | brlcad | er, showshot |
| 04:45.23 | starseeker | #ifndef lint |
| 04:45.23 | starseeker | static const char RCSid[] = "$Header: /cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c,v 14.13 2007/05/12 22:26:57 brlcad Exp $"; |
| 04:45.23 | starseeker | #endif |
| 04:45.24 | starseeker | #include <stdio.h> |
| 04:45.24 | starseeker | #include <stdlib.h> |
| 04:45.26 | starseeker | #include <ctype.h> |
| 04:45.28 | starseeker | #ifdef HAVE_STRING_H |
| 04:45.30 | starseeker | # include <string.h> |
| 04:45.32 | starseeker | #else |
| 04:45.34 | starseeker | # include <strings.h> |
| 04:45.36 | starseeker | #endif |
| 04:45.38 | starseeker | #ifdef HAVE_UNISTD_H |
| 04:45.40 | starseeker | # include <unistd.h> |
| 04:45.42 | starseeker | #endif |
| 04:45.43 | brlcad | grep HAVE_STRING_H include/brlcad_config.h |
| 04:45.44 | starseeker | #include "machine.h" |
| 04:45.46 | starseeker | #include "vmath.h" |
| 04:45.48 | starseeker | #include "db.h" |
| 04:45.50 | starseeker | #include "bu.h" |
| 04:46.17 | starseeker | #define HAVE_STRING_H 1 |
| 04:47.00 | brlcad | well, that's right |
| 04:47.16 | starseeker | Let me do another build, and I'll script the whole thing |
| 04:47.20 | brlcad | so the file is included, but not getting the decl's for some reason |
| 04:47.53 | starseeker | Is there a way to pass tcl and tk flags not to include the info/man files? They're showing up as collisions |
| 04:47.58 | brlcad | pastebin your string.h |
| 04:48.22 | brlcad | hm |
| 04:49.12 | starseeker | http://pastebin.com/dd3f7686 |
| 04:49.15 | brlcad | we actually just call the tcl/tk build system directly, and I don't see info/man options to actually not install them |
| 04:49.35 | starseeker | mrf. |
| 04:50.20 | starseeker | Oh, wait - it might be itk and itcl |
| 04:50.50 | louipc | I think iwidgets has a manpage that conflicts with a tcl manpage |
| 04:51.09 | brlcad | oh? |
| 04:51.23 | starseeker | There are a few complaints about dereferencing type-punned pointers - are they of any interest? |
| 04:52.01 | brlcad | feel free to post up the entire build log |
| 04:52.24 | brlcad | really depends what they're warnings about |
| 04:52.27 | starseeker | unless brl-cad saved it I'm afraid I didn't - I can re-do it, hang on.. |
| 04:52.36 | starseeker | http://pastebin.com/m3677e600 |
| 04:52.42 | brlcad | curious that you're getting additional warnings, though -- are there flags being added? |
| 04:52.52 | brlcad | is gcc being used and, if not, what is? |
| 04:52.57 | starseeker | Yes, gcc. |
| 04:53.05 | starseeker | let's see - my default flags are... |
| 04:53.24 | starseeker | CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe" |
| 04:53.24 | starseeker | CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}" |
| 04:53.38 | brlcad | ah, those are warnings in tcl/tk code |
| 04:53.46 | starseeker | Oh :-) |
| 04:53.53 | starseeker | sorry, should have looked closer |
| 04:54.08 | brlcad | i'm not really concerned about anything in src/other unless it's halting the build or conflicting something |
| 04:54.17 | starseeker | makes sense |
| 04:54.31 | brlcad | we don't fix/edit their code anymore than we have to |
| 04:54.54 | starseeker | OK :-) |
| 04:57.06 | brlcad | in the past I actually tried, mostly out of a particular need and in-part just a desire to help clean up some of their issues |
| 04:58.27 | brlcad | but found that it just wasn't worth it; you'd make a slew of build system fixes and it was nearly impossible to get them integrated (only a couple core folk generally understand a build system for things like tcl), or they were already fixed in their head, or they just didn't care, or some other update came that required clobbering everything |
| 04:59.33 | brlcad | didn't take long to learn that we just need to leave the deps alone -- integrate them as needed so that they "just work" when compiling as a dep but if they fail, they fail -- the user can always try to compile them directly themselves like they'd have to do otherwise |
| 05:00.02 | starseeker | Yep |
| 05:00.59 | brlcad | ahh, my cvs problems seem to have just solved itself |
| 05:02.40 | starseeker | I love it when problems do that |
| 05:05.57 | brlcad | i can only imagine that sf.net has a cron job that walks all of the projects looking for common cleanup-issues like stale locks, bad permissions, and other support-inducing issues that would be a burden |
| 05:09.30 | starseeker | I would think that keeps someone on their support staff sane ;-) |
| 05:15.52 | starseeker | OK, I need to re-do the build and provide a patch to disable the man files in the Makefile, but first sleep :-) |
| 06:51.09 | yukonbob | ...and hits hay |
| 08:43.49 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-001-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 09:51.00 | MinuteElectron | Oh, shit. |
| 09:51.11 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Did you have an ldap server running? |
| 09:57.34 | MinuteElectron | I am such an imbasele. |
| 10:00.44 | MinuteElectron | Yeah, I mucked up bad this time. |
| 11:00.13 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875790.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 12:19.05 | ``Erik | hum |
| 12:19.08 | ``Erik | ho hum |
| 12:19.16 | ``Erik | hum, ho, hum! |
| 13:39.37 | starseeker | YES |
| 13:39.40 | starseeker | it worked |
| 13:39.49 | starseeker | mged starts |
| 13:59.39 | ``Erik | using gentoo's port ripoff build system? |
| 14:45.47 | *** join/#brlcad cad49 (n=d53c6d36@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 14:48.39 | starseeker | ``Erik: You mean the FreeBSD rippoff? yep :-) |
| 14:50.26 | starseeker | I think it worked... |
| 14:50.58 | starseeker | Yep. Just need to do source /etc/profile to update the shell |
| 14:51.27 | starseeker | OK. Next and maybe last step is to go over the build log for any problems, but first laundry... |
| 15:10.39 | starseeker | brlcad: Are the files in src/tclscripts part of BRL-CAD or are they external? |
| 15:16.31 | louipc | so what BSD is a Unix rip off and so on and so on |
| 15:18.23 | louipc | starseeker: archer is part of BRL-CAD |
| 15:18.53 | starseeker | louipc: Ah. I'm seeing a few compiler warnings, but I don't guess they are serious enough to bother about now. |
| 15:19.05 | starseeker | most are tcl and friends, a few might be in BRL-CAD |
| 15:19.36 | starseeker | WOOOOO-HOOOOOO :-). It looks like the ebuild is functioning :) |
| 15:19.44 | louipc | hurrah |
| 15:19.45 | ``Erik | anything in src/other we tend to ignore |
| 15:20.06 | starseeker | Yes, I was looking for warnings not in src/other. Saw a few, but no big deal |
| 15:20.14 | ``Erik | and a lot of the other stuff has been fixed in cvs... sometimes I get a hair up my butt about those :) |
| 15:20.19 | starseeker | :-) |
| 15:20.48 | louipc | hair up your butt?? how queer |
| 15:20.52 | ``Erik | unfortunately, tcl precludes the use of CFLAGS="-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic" :( |
| 15:59.22 | starseeker | humph - it only works if the tcl and tk patches are in different files. I wonder why that is |
| 16:09.35 | brlcad | starseeker: they are part of brl-cad, the tclscripts are required by mged and loaded on start-up (mged finds them via a search path ordering) |
| 16:10.09 | brlcad | archer also uses the tclscripts as well (in part because it effectively has an embedded mged in it) |
| 16:13.13 | brlcad | minute: no big deal -- killing the process fortunately didn't do any harm :) |
| 16:13.45 | ``Erik | I need to buy a new fan, heh |
| 16:14.13 | brlcad | minute: also think you have/had something wrong in the config file: daemon: listen URL "/var/db/openldap-slurp/slapd.conf" parse error=3 |
| 16:16.58 | brlcad | minute: also, you did/do have sudo to run the slapd/slurpd startup scripts in /usr/local/etc/rc.d -- that would have been how to restart it |
| 16:27.26 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-001-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 19:54.27 | minute | brlcad: Thank you, sorry again. |
| 20:02.46 | minute | brlcad: I hope you don't mind me installing phpldapadmin to my personal webspace. I am a total n00b at this and it would help a lot. |
| 20:08.37 | starseeker | brlcad: Where do I find a copy of the BSD Documentation License (BDL?) |
| 20:21.57 | brlcad | doc/legal |
| 20:25.49 | starseeker | Thanks :-) |
| 20:28.05 | starseeker | One think I don't have yet is the installation of all the doc files (pdf, txt, etc) into the /opt tree. Hmm... |
| 20:29.39 | starseeker | brlcad: Is there a list of "files that should go into /opt/brlcad/doc" (or I guess /usr/share/doc/brlcad would do in this case...) |
| 20:36.19 | starseeker | Oh, nevermind, I see it in /usr/share. |
| 20:41.02 | minute | Oh, this is crazy. |
| 20:41.55 | minute | brlcad: Is there any reason a site at ~MinuteElectron/ldap/htdocs/cmd.php would give me a 403 forbidden error? |
| 20:48.19 | minute | Ok, I need a break. |
| 21:10.46 | starseeker | brlcad: When I open the cups.g example in mged, nothing shows in the window - is this expected? |
| 21:15.41 | louipc | if you start mged then open it yeah |
| 21:16.17 | louipc | you can try `mged cups.g` that should display and open |
| 21:17.01 | louipc | otherwise you issue a command to draw the geometry (which I forgot) |
| 21:17.18 | louipc | use ls to list different components of the model |
| 21:23.52 | louipc | starseeker: aha usually `draw all` |
| 21:24.30 | starseeker | hmm - all not found |
| 21:24.56 | louipc | where's cups.g from? |
| 21:25.08 | starseeker | it's in the manual |
| 21:25.13 | starseeker | is there something better to test with? |
| 21:25.34 | louipc | oh it's a model you created? |
| 21:25.39 | starseeker | no |
| 21:25.43 | starseeker | hang on... |
| 21:25.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:25.52 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.02 | ``Erik | 'tops' is a good command, then when you see what you want, you can do an 'e' |
| 21:26.17 | ``Erik | like, if tops tells you that "all.g" exists, do "e all.g" |
| 21:26.40 | starseeker | mged> tops |
| 21:26.41 | starseeker | cup.r/R cup_out.r/R eto_sub.r/R mug.r/R |
| 21:26.41 | starseeker | cup_in.r/R eto.r/R handle.r/R |
| 21:26.57 | louipc | probably cup.r/R |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | draw cup.r/R |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | db_lookup(R) failed: R does not exist |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | db_string_to_path() of 'cup.r/R' failed on 'R' |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | db_walk_tree: warning - cup.r/R not found. |
| 21:27.27 | starseeker | mged> |
| 21:27.39 | louipc | share/brlcad/7.10.2/db maybe |
| 21:29.00 | louipc | actually you should be able to just do `draw cup` |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | mged> draw cup |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | bn_mat_ck(cyl): bad matrix, does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.38 | starseeker | MATRIX bn_mat_ck() bad matrix: |
| 21:29.39 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.41 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.45 | starseeker | db_recurse(cyl): matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.47 | starseeker | MATRIX bad matrix: |
| 21:29.49 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:29.57 | starseeker | bn_mat_ck(inside): bad matrix, does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:29.59 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.00 | louipc | spam! |
| 21:30.01 | starseeker | MATRIX bn_mat_ck() bad matrix: |
| 21:30.05 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.13 | starseeker | db_recurse(inside): matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity. |
| 21:30.15 | starseeker | MATRIX bad matrix: |
| 21:30.17 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.23 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:30.25 | starseeker | ERROR: db_walk_dispatcher() region 0 started with no state |
| 21:30.27 | starseeker | mged> |
| 21:30.29 | starseeker | oh, sorry |
| 21:30.31 | starseeker | my bad |
| 21:30.35 | starseeker | but drawing didn't show |
| 21:30.51 | louipc | I tried too I think there's something wrong with that model.. |
| 21:31.13 | brlcad | type dbversion |
| 21:31.13 | starseeker | will mged work loading the asc files? |
| 21:31.13 | louipc | try one in share/brlcad/7.10.2/db |
| 21:31.23 | brlcad | that looks like a v4 |
| 21:31.28 | starseeker | I am - cpu is crunching like crazy ;-) |
| 21:31.34 | louipc | brlcad: yep |
| 21:31.53 | starseeker | brlcad: Well, I uploaded all the ebuild goodies to the bug report. |
| 21:32.07 | starseeker | brlcad: Now we'll see how intense the flaming is ;-) |
| 21:32.27 | brlcad | gah, who put a v4 .g into cvs |
| 21:32.30 | starseeker | erm - what does Detached mean? |
| 21:32.33 | louipc | not me |
| 21:33.41 | brlcad | starseeker, that cup.g is useless to you, the v4 files are platform-specific .. every time I think we've gotten rid of them, one pops up somewhere |
| 21:33.48 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 21:33.50 | brlcad | it has to be converted to a v5 on the same platform that made it |
| 21:34.15 | brlcad | either way, that's a useless/boring .g .. pick one of the other ones that were installed in the db dir |
| 21:34.15 | louipc | :D |
| 21:34.29 | louipc | try the barbie toy jeep! |
| 21:34.33 | starseeker | Is there one that has a hope of loading in under an hour? |
| 21:34.50 | louipc | starseeker: what are you running man? |
| 21:35.09 | starseeker | lgt-test was chomping cpu like nobody's business, and I'm a dual P4 |
| 21:35.25 | starseeker | OK, toyjeep came up - let's try drawing it... |
| 21:35.42 | louipc | I'm on a pIII 866MHz and that loaded instantly pretty much |
| 21:35.57 | starseeker | toyjeep did, except I still don't see anything |
| 21:36.02 | louipc | draw all |
| 21:36.14 | starseeker | all does not exist |
| 21:36.16 | starseeker | grr. |
| 21:36.50 | brlcad | tops |
| 21:37.01 | brlcad | that lists the top-level geometry |
| 21:37.05 | brlcad | then e one of them |
| 21:37.11 | brlcad | e == draw |
| 21:37.37 | starseeker | OK, I did open on toyjeep.asc |
| 21:37.44 | louipc | opendb |
| 21:37.46 | brlcad | you can't open .asc files, open the .g |
| 21:38.18 | brlcad | you could import an .asc, but you'd still have to open a .g first to import it into |
| 21:38.24 | starseeker | I'm in brlcad-7.10.2/db and I'm only seeing .asc files |
| 21:38.39 | louipc | hmm |
| 21:39.07 | brlcad | then either you selected the wrong file menu option (import) or you're missing the binary files that would have been generated during compilation |
| 21:39.23 | louipc | :( |
| 21:39.37 | starseeker | one sec... |
| 21:39.43 | louipc | starseeker: hehe |
| 21:39.53 | starseeker | THERE they are |
| 21:39.57 | louipc | SWEET |
| 21:40.11 | starseeker | bingo |
| 21:40.13 | starseeker | sorry guys |
| 21:40.16 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:40.33 | starseeker | I have a few directories left over from when I was looking at what had to be patched. |
| 21:41.26 | louipc | lgt-test.g opened pretty much instantly for me :P |
| 21:42.01 | brlcad | there's no .g we provide that should not open instantly |
| 21:42.23 | starseeker | The .g files look fine - it didn't like getting handed the raw asc file though ;-) |
| 21:42.24 | brlcad | even massive 1GB models should pretty much open instantly |
| 21:42.34 | louipc | oooh |
| 21:44.08 | starseeker | Yep, working like a charm now. |
| 21:44.43 | starseeker | Installed in opt from an ebuild, environment variables seem to be working, license file where it should be... life is good :-) |
| 21:45.01 | louipc | congrats |
| 21:45.09 | starseeker | Thanks :-) |
| 21:45.44 | starseeker | Really y'all did all the hard work - it was just a question of making sure all the options are set correctly by the system. |
| 21:46.17 | ``Erik | prep takes ~40s on a ~1g file (almost all bot, if nto all) |
| 21:46.18 | starseeker | Now if the Gentoo devs just don't get a bee in their bonnet again about the use of /opt... |
| 21:47.48 | brlcad | prep isn't the same as opening the file, that's just a quick file scan |
| 21:48.26 | starseeker | Don't worry guys - I just missed the part that the db files were compiled in the build rather than being present beforehand. |
| 21:48.48 | starseeker | It's working like a charm now :-) |
| 21:48.50 | brlcad | i've seen the file i/o over nfs make it take longer than usual, but that's specific to an nfs setup |
| 21:49.04 | brlcad | CIA-4: poke |
| 21:50.12 | starseeker | So, what do we sub in for cups.g in the manual? |
| 21:51.14 | brlcad | i already fixed it, it's a v5 now |
| 21:51.38 | brlcad | i wouldn't suggest using that manual regardless, the ones on the website are better |
| 21:52.03 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 21:52.17 | starseeker | You mean the pdf manuals? |
| 21:52.25 | brlcad | yes |
| 21:52.39 | starseeker | OK, sounds good |
| 21:52.58 | starseeker | I was curious about those, actually - do they exist only as pdfs? |
| 21:54.44 | starseeker | If they're LaTeX, perhaps they too could be rendered into html and replace the current html manual? |
| 21:54.45 | brlcad | no, they're available in another equally useless format |
| 21:54.50 | starseeker | lol |
| 21:55.33 | brlcad | the goal is actually to turn them into docbook, then stash them into the repository, keep them up to date and auto-generate pdf, html, txt |
| 21:55.44 | starseeker | Cool. |
| 21:56.00 | brlcad | a couple folks started on this (yet again) a couple weeks ago, but they seemingly have disappeared |
| 21:56.36 | louipc | maybe I should poke the poppler people to add docbook conversion |
| 21:56.36 | starseeker | Well, if the ebuild gets accepted that sounds like a good #2 task, assuming I won't stomp on any toes |
| 21:56.51 | louipc | right now you can convert to some other weird xml format |
| 21:57.08 | starseeker | How exacting are the formatting requirements? |
| 21:57.25 | starseeker | Do we need to precisely duplicate the visual style of the current versions? |
| 21:57.50 | brlcad | getting the straight-up conversion isn't too hard -- it's mostly what's the best way to automate the task given it's about 800 pages or so with images |
| 21:57.55 | brlcad | oh, heck no |
| 21:58.09 | brlcad | but it should maintain the content (with images) |
| 21:58.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/cup.g: don't put a v4 into the repository. if we must stash .g files, then at least stash a v5 so that it's not platform-specific. thanks to starseeker for pointing out the problem. |
| 21:58.26 | brlcad | that's what docbook is all about, just the structure, no presentation element |
| 21:58.36 | brlcad | about time CIA-4 |
| 21:59.02 | starseeker | OK. |
| 22:00.25 | louipc | starseeker: pdfimages in poppler will do it... |
| 22:00.38 | starseeker | that's a help :-) |
| 22:01.11 | starseeker | oh good, gentoo has poppler in portage... |
| 22:01.28 | louipc | looks like they got rid of that weird xml conversion |
| 22:02.02 | louipc | oh maybe not |
| 22:03.33 | minute | brlcad: Qucikee: does 'cmd.php' mean anything to you? |
| 22:04.35 | brlcad | hmm |
| 22:05.15 | brlcad | not immediately, should it? |
| 22:05.54 | minute | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:06.10 | brlcad | starseeker: if you're really interested in working on it, you'd probably have a lot easier success working with the original ms word documents, converting to some tagged format or even importing to something else (like OO or WP) that might export docbook, then just dealing with cleanup |
| 22:06.26 | brlcad | minute: AAH |
| 22:06.32 | brlcad | yes, now it means a whole lot more |
| 22:06.35 | starseeker | Word? ick. Yes, that would be easier. |
| 22:06.47 | brlcad | like I said,.. useless :) |
| 22:07.45 | louipc | I tried to make an html with that doc via OOo but it turned out pretty bad :/ |
| 22:08.13 | brlcad | minute: you're undoubtedly getting hit by the vulnerability detection modules in apache -- they perform hundreds of regex comparisons on every URL to prevent intrusion abuse -- cmd.php being an exceptionally common one with the right URL structure |
| 22:09.15 | minute | brlcad: ffs |
| 22:09.34 | minute | Anything I can do? |
| 22:10.10 | brlcad | yeah, that's it: mod_security-message: Access denied with code 403. Pattern match "/(cse|cmd)\\.(c|dat|gif|jpe?g|jpeg|png|sh|txt|bmp|dat|txt|js|html?|tmp|php|asp)\\?" at REQUEST_URI [severity "EMER |
| 22:10.14 | brlcad | GENCY"] |
| 22:10.35 | brlcad | rename the file? :) |
| 22:10.40 | minute | That won't work. |
| 22:11.37 | minute | Since it is included in another file. |
| 22:12.08 | minute | and it completely mucks up when I try to change the url |
| 22:12.33 | minute | anyway, sleep for me now |
| 22:12.43 | starseeker | Mrf. The gentoo guys are appalled at the patching of files generated by configure and suggest tracking it back to the proper area... |
| 22:12.48 | starseeker | grrr |
| 22:12.55 | starseeker | Come on TCL, do it right... |
| 22:13.14 | brlcad | minute: good night |
| 22:13.22 | brlcad | i presume this is for myldapadmin? |
| 22:13.26 | minute | yeah |
| 22:13.30 | minute | phpldapadmin |
| 22:13.36 | brlcad | k |
| 22:13.50 | minute | goodnight |
| 22:14.03 | brlcad | goodnight, i'm working on ldap more today too |
| 22:14.11 | brlcad | hopefully will make some good progress while you're sleeping ;) |
| 22:14.21 | minute | :) sounds good, thanks |
| 22:14.40 | starseeker | brlcad: Assuming the Gentoo devs are ever satisfied, I'd be glad to take a look at the Word -> docbook question |
| 22:14.55 | brlcad | i'd be glad too :) |
| 22:15.40 | minute | I hope so :D |
| 22:16.29 | brlcad | er, that was to starseeker :) .. i'm thrilled about the web work, and actually have been reading up on ldap for a while now :) |
| 22:16.44 | brlcad | still soaking it all up |
| 22:16.50 | minute | heh |
| 22:17.19 | brlcad | had a mild diversion with 'adventure' last night.. would make for a nifty easter egg :) |
| 22:17.49 | starseeker | hehe |
| 22:18.19 | starseeker | OK, I'm starting to daydream about ousting TCL/TK and replacing it with QT4 - that's probably a good indication I should get supper. |
| 22:18.32 | louipc | indeed |
| 22:18.33 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:21.16 | starseeker | QT4 + VTK... mmmmm... |
| 22:21.22 | starseeker | Alright, food |
| 23:00.28 | Maloeran | An apparently good and reliable IQ test for anyone looking for something to do : http://iqtest.dk/main.swf |
| 23:00.46 | Maloeran | Unlike most online tests, there are truly challenging questions near the end |
| 23:03.13 | Maloeran | And it's an interesting test, entirely based on logic and pattern recognition |
| 23:15.25 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 00:16.36 | starseeker | yukonbob: You're a tcl/tk fan? |
| 00:42.48 | louipc | they just need to fix the build environment |
| 00:43.13 | louipc | or something |
| 00:48.45 | starseeker | it's the stupid tcl/tk man page install |
| 01:03.55 | brlcad | Maloeran: hm, that is a pretty interesting test |
| 01:04.18 | brlcad | fun too.. a couple I wasn't so sure about though |
| 01:05.19 | brlcad | that last one is pretty damn hard, not sure my reasoning on the pattern was sound, but I eventually found something that seemed to fit |
| 01:07.14 | brlcad | arbitrarily limiting the time seems a bit contrary to mensa-criteria, though .. most of their official tests have rather generous time |
| 01:07.57 | poolio_ | The whole test is bogus...but possibly fun |
| 01:09.22 | brlcad | yeah, I've seen considerably harder mensa tests, but it does have a few with some pretty complex patterns that took a few minutes to be sure of |
| 01:11.36 | poolio_ | yeah but it's also only testing a small part of what an actual IQ test would cover |
| 01:12.27 | brlcad | would be fun to use that test on some coworkers.. see how they do |
| 01:13.47 | brlcad | damnit, I really want to know what I missed :) |
| 01:19.45 | starseeker | brlcad: what version of autoconf does BRL-CAD need? |
| 01:23.55 | brlcad | autogen.sh lists the minimums |
| 01:24.45 | brlcad | shouldn't matter so long as it meets the minimum, don't know if you can specify "just use the latest" |
| 01:24.54 | brlcad | or 2.50+ |
| 01:24.58 | starseeker | It seems the "correct" place to patch for the man page install is in the Makefile.in, but when I try I get... |
| 01:25.09 | starseeker | hang on, pastebin coming up... |
| 01:25.28 | Maloeran | brlcad, I really couldn't figure out the last question, as well as a couple more in the last 10 |
| 01:26.19 | brlcad | yeah, 33 was a bitch |
| 01:26.26 | brlcad | i got stuck on that one for several minutes |
| 01:26.35 | Maloeran | Although I lost time helping people in efnet's #c while doing the test |
| 01:26.39 | starseeker | http://pastebin.com/d2b9155af |
| 01:27.21 | brlcad | 127's not bad at all .. with the rough estimates, that's probably "close enough" to at least test for mensa ;) |
| 01:27.33 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:27.33 | brlcad | since that's clearly not a spot-on test |
| 01:27.49 | brlcad | hm, BC_BOLD is defined by macros in the m4/ dir |
| 01:28.18 | starseeker | maybe that's the m4 patch in portage |
| 01:28.23 | brlcad | same as BC_CONFIG_CACHE .. seems that it's ignoring our -Im4 directive from autogen.sh ... does it run our autogen.sh? |
| 01:28.23 | starseeker | grr, let me add that too... |
| 01:29.01 | brlcad | otherwise it needs to .. autoreconf needs it if that's what you're running |
| 01:35.23 | brlcad | Maloeran: you should "try again" when you have time to think through uninterrupted ;) |
| 01:36.45 | brlcad | the test is a bit biased towards geometric patterns, but still pretty fun -- thanks for the link |
| 01:38.26 | brlcad | starseeker: I see from your pastebin that it is running the autotools prep steps directly .. what does that? the eautoreconf and other steps |
| 01:38.27 | Maloeran | *nods* Yes, it's fun stuff |
| 01:38.49 | Maloeran | I'm afraid my results will be biased if I take the test again, I'll remember the hard patterns I already figured out |
| 01:39.08 | Maloeran | Would it be inappropriate to ask how much you got? |
| 01:39.19 | brlcad | Maloeran: but like I said .. in a true mensa test, time is irrelevant |
| 01:39.24 | starseeker | yes, eautoreconf is what's running autoconf |
| 01:39.31 | brlcad | nah, I got a 138 |
| 01:39.49 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 01:40.45 | brlcad | theoretically, you keep taking it and you'll only know what you know and given any reasonable amount of time, you're not really going to get any better without cheating |
| 01:41.26 | Maloeran | I guess I should take it again some day. At the moment, the result implies that I got dumber since the real test I took during high school years :) |
| 01:41.38 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:41.45 | brlcad | i doubt it correllates |
| 01:41.58 | brlcad | there's only what .. 39 questions or something |
| 01:42.08 | louipc | what perks do you get if you're in mensa? |
| 01:42.41 | brlcad | geeky bragging rights |
| 01:42.47 | brlcad | pretty pointless chest pounding |
| 01:43.08 | louipc | is it good to use for picking up chicks? |
| 01:43.12 | brlcad | hah, riiight |
| 01:43.26 | louipc | :D |
| 01:43.43 | brlcad | it would likely make for decent resume material |
| 01:43.49 | brlcad | for bean counters that cared |
| 01:44.09 | louipc | hehe |
| 01:46.40 | brlcad | but same reason I wouldn't apply when I was a teenager still holds today ... there's just no point other than self-gratification bragging rights |
| 01:46.54 | louipc | there's a few AIM clients on linux |
| 01:47.29 | Maloeran | The last time I tried Gaim, it would segfault when trying to send a message |
| 01:47.42 | Maloeran | Ah by the way Sean, just in case you could be interested ; I'm getting married on October 13th... to a girl with american citizenship |
| 01:47.48 | brlcad | i'm more impressed by someone that makes it to the olympics or works on a code for years on end to improve it, or can work through tricky algorithmic problems with regard to practical limitations, etc |
| 01:47.57 | brlcad | Maloeran: hehehe, I heard |
| 01:48.01 | brlcad | congratulations |
| 01:48.02 | louipc | yeah it was pretty bad, it's gotten better though |
| 01:48.10 | louipc | called 'pidgin' now |
| 01:48.32 | brlcad | Maloeran: so you plan on getting naturalized afterwards? :) |
| 01:48.43 | brlcad | where is she at? |
| 01:48.48 | Maloeran | Sure, I'm thinking about moving to San Diego at the moment, I really enjoyed my time there |
| 01:48.52 | louipc | cool |
| 01:48.53 | Maloeran | Technically, she's in Montreal |
| 01:49.13 | louipc | and practically? |
| 01:49.20 | brlcad | hehe |
| 01:49.31 | brlcad | virtually? |
| 01:49.33 | starseeker | sorry guys, gotta run - brlcad, I'll see if I can dig up more on what's going on with the config step here |
| 01:49.36 | starseeker | thanks all! |
| 01:49.38 | brlcad | see ya |
| 01:49.40 | louipc | cheers |
| 01:50.06 | Maloeran | Hrm. Let me clarify : she has been living in Montreal for the last 8 years, but she has american citizenship |
| 01:50.41 | Maloeran | Apparently, we could live in both places at the same time, having an address both in Canada and the U.S. |
| 01:50.59 | louipc | yeah |
| 01:51.12 | louipc | it makes taxes a bit messy I think though |
| 01:52.19 | Maloeran | Yes, it's rather messy already, perhaps partly because her parents don't know about the marriage |
| 01:53.13 | louipc | indeed |
| 01:55.07 | Maloeran | San Diego was fantastic, it's just such a long way from Montreal if I want to come back see friends ( or my future wife ) on a regular basis |
| 01:55.20 | Maloeran | But I just couldn't imagine myself living in Belcamp or Edgewood |
| 01:56.34 | brlcad | ah, just elope, show up at their door one day and go "hi mom! dad!" and hug them |
| 01:57.08 | brlcad | Maloeran: live in the city (baltimore) .. way more interesting :) |
| 01:57.20 | brlcad | or even in DC or Philadelphia |
| 01:58.05 | Maloeran | I didn't like that much what I have seen of Baltimore, I haven't really checked PHL beyond the airport though |
| 01:58.45 | Maloeran | Eheh brlcad, I'm sure they'll figure it out somehow, perhaps very soon... with the courthouse leaving messages in their phone mailbox |
| 01:59.03 | brlcad | heh, really? why would the courthouse call them? |
| 01:59.47 | Maloeran | She lives with her father in Montreal, her mother is at San Diego ( I spent days with her family there too ) |
| 02:00.43 | Maloeran | We met in San Diego before Siggraph, went together to Mexico for a couple days afterwards. I think I have absolutely no memory of the conference itself |
| 02:03.54 | brlcad | wow, that's a first I've heard of .. finding a wife before/during siggraph(!) |
| 02:03.58 | brlcad | was she attending? |
| 02:04.05 | brlcad | did you know her beforehand or something? |
| 02:04.43 | Maloeran | She was in vacation in San Diego to visit her mother |
| 02:04.59 | Maloeran | We had a common friend back in Montreal who got us to meet, she came to get me at the airport |
| 02:05.23 | Maloeran | And... things went fast from that point, we decided to get married within 2 days :) |
| 02:06.37 | poolio_ | woah |
| 02:06.43 | Maloeran | I got passes for her and her mother for Siggraph ( thanks Mark! ), so they did attend |
| 02:07.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a check for icc's -p gprof profile option |
| 02:11.50 | Maloeran | Just to clarify, she did know through our common friend of vague thoughts on a possible "arranged marriage" to get me an immigration visa, it's not really a decision to normally make within 2 days |
| 02:12.39 | brlcad | that's insane |
| 02:12.56 | brlcad | but hey, cool |
| 02:13.02 | brlcad | hope she's good stuff for ya :) |
| 02:14.02 | Maloeran | Eheh. We had a big pre-marriage party on the September 8th, everybody nicely dressed with her in a marriage dress... but no one actually took pictures |
| 02:14.16 | Maloeran | I'll try to get some on October 13th official marriage |
| 02:15.39 | brlcad | aw, it doesn't need to be fancy, just to see what the two of you look like together ;) |
| 02:15.44 | Maloeran | In any case, my productivity has totally collapsed since Siggraph, which is slightly disturbing |
| 02:15.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't mention the -pg flag now that it checks more than one |
| 02:15.59 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 02:16.00 | brlcad | i can imagine |
| 02:16.15 | brlcad | women have that ability to whip you entirely to their will |
| 02:17.02 | brlcad | a good sign, hopefully will continue through past the 5-year mark :) |
| 02:23.36 | Maloeran | I'm almost frightened by how easily she can compromise my principles. On the September 8th party with a dozen friends, she managed to make me drink alcohol for the first time in my life, with so little resistance |
| 02:24.39 | Maloeran | The right hemisphere of the brain seems to have risen against the opression of reason of logic for so many years. Anyhow, it's all a very disturbing experience from my point of view |
| 02:38.45 | louipc | you just need to drink so much booze that she begs you to stop then you're good |
| 02:44.03 | brlcad | yeah, I read that the other night ... good for her :) |
| 02:45.19 | brlcad | the sign of a good woman, pushing you to new experiences, expanding horizons |
| 02:46.09 | louipc | as long as she can take it as well as dish it out ;) |
| 03:14.48 | Maloeran | Hrm, I'm not finding much information on amateur ( yet decent ) scuba diving photography. Montreal doesn't seem to best place to find this kind of material either |
| 05:25.52 | brlcad | minute: well, that's some progress .. I think I now understand the basic organizational structure of the default schemas and have created the db for brlcad, populated with just one user entry at the moment .. next step will be to read up on drupal and/or mediawiki ldap, but I'll have to continue that tomorrow (my turn to z) |
| 05:30.44 | brlcad | ldap tis a fairly flexible and robust albeit somewhat complex beast.. |
| 05:31.01 | brlcad | several gotchas in the setup and configurations |
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| 09:04.45 | qazwsx | hey, I'm looking for a fast open source csg library |
| 09:04.53 | qazwsx | can I get some honest opinions on brlcad ? |
| 09:05.11 | qazwsx | perfecrably something I can interface with OpenGL |
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| 14:32.28 | ``Erik | yes, mal, you absolutely must provide photographic evidence. |
| 14:33.10 | ``Erik | as for mensa, I've known a fistful of members in the past, and my opinion is that it's a club for people who should be able to do something useful but don't, so they can feel better about themselves. |
| 14:39.41 | Maloeran | Evidence, eh? :) All right, I'll get that camera |
| 14:48.09 | ``Erik | and if she's hotter than my gf, I'm gonna kick your ass and steal her, ok? :D *duck* |
| 14:49.24 | ``Erik | tracking data corruption bugs sucks goat balls |
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| 14:53.10 | *** part/#brlcad et-b00n (n=naab@i577A5FC5.versanet.de) | |
| 14:53.28 | Maloeran | Tsk, no chance. You would have to learn to like scuba diving, rock climbing, cycling, running... oh, and french too :) |
| 14:54.10 | ``Erik | heh, I used to bike :/ but I left it when I moved, need to buy another |
| 14:54.21 | minute | hmm |
| 15:22.17 | Maloeran | Seems like you need to buy that bicycle for over an year now, Erik |
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| 16:10.53 | ``Erik | yes, about 2 years |
| 16:59.57 | Maloeran | They had no idea if the camera's data could be accessed from Linux, I guess I'll find out soon enough |
| 17:06.36 | ``Erik | should be uhhh |
| 17:06.46 | ``Erik | I d'no the linux name, fbsd calls it umass |
| 17:06.55 | ``Erik | basically a usb hard drive using flash media for backing |
| 17:07.46 | ``Erik | that's how most cameras talk, anyways :) |
| 17:08.52 | Maloeran | *nods* I heard the data could be stored in non-standard format though |
| 17:09.01 | Maloeran | Which requires their software to read, or perhaps some gimp plugins |
| 17:10.59 | ``Erik | hm, the few cameras I've dorked with have all stored jfif |
| 17:11.31 | ``Erik | I have scripts somewhere to mount, mv, umount and convert to jpeg, stashing them in a directory date '+%Y%m%d' |
| 17:12.49 | Maloeran | Right, I see |
| 17:14.43 | Maloeran | The thing got a microphone and other strange goodies. It's time to read the manual, I never really used a modern camera |
| 17:17.10 | ``Erik | modern digital cameras can do a small bit of video recording |
| 17:41.00 | brlcad | Maloeran: most modern cameras store internally in a raw format or a jpeg format, even internally |
| 17:41.15 | brlcad | the dcraw project will decode most raw formats |
| 17:41.29 | brlcad | particularly if it's a canon or nikon, but others too |
| 17:43.04 | ``Erik | 'jfif' is a degredate jpeg with extra info, but much MUCH larger |
| 17:43.06 | MinuteElectron | Good morning brlcad. |
| 17:43.15 | ``Erik | mine's an olympia |
| 17:44.35 | Maloeran | Mine's a Canon, I'm almost through the exhaustive manual |
| 17:51.55 | brlcad | howdy MinuteElectron |
| 17:52.28 | brlcad | heh bpoole? :) |
| 17:52.46 | brlcad | no more coolio apparently |
| 17:52.47 | MinuteElectron | I'm on the same server as you :) |
| 17:52.55 | brlcad | yeah, just realized that :) |
| 17:53.56 | MinuteElectron | "/format own_msg {ownmsgnick $2 {ownnick $[-9]0}}$1" |
| 17:53.57 | MinuteElectron | "/format own_msg_channel {ownmsgnick $3 {ownnick $[-9]0}{msgchannel $1}}$2" |
| 17:53.57 | MinuteElectron | "/format pubmsg_me {pubmsgmenick $2 {menick $[-9]0}}$1" |
| 17:53.57 | MinuteElectron | "/format pubmsg_me_channel {pubmsgmenick $3 {menick $[-9]0}{msgchannel $1}}$2" |
| 17:53.59 | MinuteElectron | "/format pubmsg_hilight {pubmsghinick $0 $3 $[-9]1}$2" |
| 17:54.01 | MinuteElectron | "/format pubmsg_hilight_channel {pubmsghinick $0 $4 $[-9]1{msgchannel $2}}$3" |
| 17:54.04 | MinuteElectron | "/format pubmsg {pubmsgnick $2 {pubnick $[-9]0}}$1" |
| 17:54.07 | MinuteElectron | "/format pubmsg_channel {pubmsgnick $3 {pubnick $[-9]0}{msgchannel $1}}$2" |
| 17:54.10 | brlcad | woops |
| 17:54.57 | MinuteElectron | oops |
| 17:55.04 | MinuteElectron | stupid irssi |
| 17:55.08 | MinuteElectron | s/irssi/me |
| 17:55.09 | MinuteElectron | sorry |
| 17:57.08 | MinuteElectron | bbl |
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| 18:47.21 | brlcad | hammer time! |
| 18:49.05 | Maloeran | Eheh, I still got 14 days to change for a better model. http://www.rayforce.net/hello.png |
| 18:50.19 | Maloeran | It's definitely not worthy of marriage or scuba diving pictures |
| 18:59.36 | brlcad | I knew it! |
| 18:59.48 | brlcad | she .. looks a lot like a potted plant |
| 19:00.35 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
| 19:01.04 | brlcad | i can see the attaction |
| 19:01.09 | brlcad | i bet she likes to get dirty |
| 19:01.39 | brlcad | yeah, that camera's no good if that's the best it can do |
| 19:02.27 | Maloeran | Here's the original non-resized : http://www.rayforce.net/Picture%20006.jpg |
| 19:02.31 | Maloeran | It's definitely horrible |
| 19:03.54 | brlcad | wow |
| 19:03.58 | brlcad | that's like |
| 19:04.01 | brlcad | crap |
| 19:04.21 | Maloeran | Pretty much, yes. I guess one definitely pays extra for scuba diving cameras |
| 19:04.22 | brlcad | a whole 4 Mpix? |
| 19:04.28 | Maloeran | 7.1Mpix |
| 19:04.37 | Maloeran | But the quality of the pixels themselves is fairly bad |
| 19:04.37 | brlcad | wow, that can't be effective pixels |
| 19:04.53 | brlcad | wonder if dpreview covers scuba cams |
| 19:06.30 | brlcad | hm, covers the A570IS, http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_a570is.asp |
| 19:06.40 | brlcad | but .. I can't imagine that thing being water tight |
| 19:06.57 | Maloeran | Oh, you have to buy the housing kit too |
| 19:07.05 | brlcad | ah |
| 19:07.08 | Maloeran | It still has underwater functionalities |
| 19:07.27 | brlcad | the rebel XT is their best price point at the moment |
| 19:07.29 | Maloeran | They give that camera 4/5 stars? |
| 19:07.49 | Maloeran | Could I be using it wrong? It can't be considered good from the pictures I presently get |
| 19:08.10 | brlcad | i dunno, you could be |
| 19:08.20 | brlcad | the review should have pictures they took |
| 19:08.46 | Maloeran | It's a lot cheaper in the states too for some reason |
| 19:09.27 | brlcad | ahh, no recent review of that one, too old |
| 19:09.48 | brlcad | oh, here it is http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022201canonsa560a570is.asp |
| 19:10.24 | brlcad | still no images though |
| 19:10.59 | brlcad | have you set the quality to high? |
| 19:11.25 | brlcad | jpeg format is usually crap for most purposes |
| 19:12.40 | brlcad | the way that is pixellated, though, makes me think it's also probably in the wrong mode too |
| 19:19.39 | Maloeran | You were right, there was a higher quality mode |
| 19:21.52 | Maloeran | It's not actually that much better |
| 19:25.38 | Maloeran | "High-quality" : http://www.rayforce.net/hello2.png Or me showing off a tiny part of rock climbing skills : http://www.rayforce.net/hello3.png ( one arm traction ) |
| 19:31.50 | brlcad | can you do the full pull up? |
| 19:32.01 | Maloeran | Sure, of course |
| 19:32.15 | brlcad | and how much do you weight? :) |
| 19:32.22 | Maloeran | 64kg :) |
| 19:32.29 | Maloeran | 141 pounds |
| 19:32.38 | brlcad | heh, not too shabby |
| 19:33.32 | brlcad | do you have a climbing gym to train in? |
| 19:33.58 | Maloeran | I go climbing in an interior gym about twice a week with friends, yes |
| 19:34.46 | Maloeran | Have you ever tried that sport? I find it very enjoyable, there's much technique and balance involved |
| 19:35.02 | brlcad | i like the campus boards, where your only grip is by the tips of your fingers up a slant |
| 19:35.08 | brlcad | oh yeah, love it |
| 19:35.12 | brlcad | been a few times |
| 19:35.35 | Maloeran | Really! I had no idea you were climbing, let's go climbing next time we end up at the same place, wherever that is |
| 19:36.01 | brlcad | i'm not very good, it has only been a few times, but it has been fun |
| 19:36.17 | Maloeran | I climb up to 5.11a or so |
| 19:36.18 | brlcad | i do seem to have the grip for it |
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| 19:43.49 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: are you here? |
| 19:44.00 | brlcad | depends |
| 19:44.13 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I just managed to make my home Internet connection work |
| 19:44.14 | brlcad | ah, hey clock |
| 19:45.38 | Z80-Boy | can you ping 77.56.70.88? |
| 19:46.23 | Maloeran | Sure, ping 130ms or so |
| 19:46.37 | Z80-Boy | that should be me |
| 19:46.41 | brlcad | likewise |
| 19:56.53 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: please process the query, urgent |
| 20:03.02 | minute | Z80-Boy: You ping fine. |
| 20:03.31 | Z80-Boy | minute: thanks |
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| 20:11.06 | Maloeran | This is messed up. brlcad, a test image for the A570 IS : http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A570IS/FULLRES/YIMG_0168.HTM |
| 20:11.13 | Maloeran | This is so far away from what I'm getting |
| 20:21.08 | brlcad | Maloeran: are you raw? what's you're image mode? |
| 20:21.32 | brlcad | that link isn't very great either, just more vibrant |
| 20:21.48 | brlcad | a little better than yours, but then it's also an outdoor shot on a very bright day |
| 20:22.06 | Maloeran | And I plan to use that camera under 20 meters of water.. :) |
| 20:23.42 | Maloeran | You are right though, outdoor shots are looking better |
| 21:47.14 | ``Erik | hum, that camera looks about on par for a cheap camera... |
| 21:47.38 | ``Erik | a scuba specific camera will be a couple hundred more, and probably look like a giant yellow clown thingie |
| 21:48.36 | Maloeran | I just came back to the shop. It's the best "compact" camera they have that can be used for underwater photography |
| 21:49.00 | Maloeran | Apparently, the quality of all "compacts" is crappy, but some guy recommended me a list of Photoshop filters to apply |
| 21:49.38 | Maloeran | Beyond that, the only options are true profesionnal underwater cameras, which cost several thousands |
| 21:51.50 | ``Erik | hum, my dad bought a serious pro grade scuba camera for a few hundred bucks about 15 years ago |
| 21:52.06 | ``Erik | wasn't worth shit above water, but it was fucking solid under |
| 21:52.22 | ``Erik | perhaps it's an issue of specialization |
| 21:52.41 | ``Erik | my dad was a scuba instructor for a while... |
| 21:53.04 | ``Erik | so, y'know, a tad bit insulted at your earlier comments *cough* :D |
| 22:00.01 | Maloeran | Oh :) |
| 22:00.54 | Maloeran | Then again, clearly there's no shop specialized in scuba diving photography in Montreal |
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| 22:46.05 | starseeker | brlcad: Well, calling brlcad's own autogen.sh works, so as long as that doesn't put a bee in somebody's bonnet we may be Good To Go. |
| 22:46.23 | starseeker | brlcad: Doing test build now, only Makefile.in files were patched. |
| 23:29.55 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: if I want to make a board of hexagonal shape in BRL-CAD I need to use arbn limited by 8 planes, right? |
| 23:30.18 | starseeker | SWEEET. new patch based on autoconf files succeeds. |
| 23:33.10 | iraytrace | Z80-boy: Both the arbn and the ars would be good candidates. |
| 23:33.22 | Z80-Boy | what is ars? |
| 23:34.25 | iraytrace | It's a "waterline" primitive. |
| 23:36.24 | iraytrace | Do you need it to be a single primitive? |
| 23:37.15 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 23:40.46 | *** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu) | |
| 23:43.00 | starseeker | brlcad: It worked! |
| 23:43.09 | starseeker | updated ebuild and goodies up on bug |
| 00:02.37 | starseeker | brlcad: One of the gentoo devs has downloaded the BRL-CAD tarball and will be looking at the autoconf magic :-) |
| 00:03.07 | starseeker | brlcad: Dunno what that means for ebuild inclusion, but at least the interest level is there |
| 00:03.43 | louipc | :D |
| 00:04.46 | louipc | starseeker: http://sourceforge.net/projects/buildconf/ |
| 00:05.59 | yukonbob | starseeker: re: tcl/tk fan -- I guess I am :) ... |
| 00:12.23 | brlcad | ~starseeker++ |
| 00:12.35 | brlcad | awesome |
| 00:13.34 | brlcad | yukonbob: you?! never... |
| 00:13.38 | brlcad | *grin* |
| 00:13.45 | starseeker | brlcad: :-) :-). |
| 00:14.03 | starseeker | brlcad: We should have a betting pool now - how long it takes the dev to cry uncle ;-) |
| 00:14.20 | brlcad | the autoconf magic really just boils down to running autoreconf and a few other verfication items |
| 00:14.38 | brlcad | more details on the buildconf website |
| 00:14.59 | starseeker | I think he's interested in how you're checking if tcl support et. al. are advanced enough |
| 00:15.11 | brlcad | in your particular instance, you were just missing the -Im4 |
| 00:15.16 | brlcad | ahh |
| 00:15.20 | brlcad | that magic |
| 00:15.36 | starseeker | brlcad: Hmm. Maybe there's an option for eautoreconf |
| 00:15.41 | brlcad | probably |
| 00:15.52 | brlcad | it's probably just a wrapper like autogen.sh |
| 00:16.07 | starseeker | Well, running autogen works fine :-) |
| 00:16.10 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:16.16 | brlcad | tis why it exists |
| 00:16.19 | brlcad | it just makes it work |
| 00:16.36 | starseeker | Now, on to the documentation :-) |
| 00:16.43 | brlcad | hence, http://buildconf.brlcad.org/ ;) |
| 00:16.46 | starseeker | where do I find the word versions? |
| 00:18.34 | brlcad | if you need to explain the tcl logic (which you shouldn't probably need to), the tests are as such .. tests for various libs that we're compatible with (up through 8.6), then tests for header availability, then it performs a compilation functionality test where it actually builds a tcl interpreter app and tries to run it |
| 00:19.32 | louipc | haha sweet |
| 00:19.55 | brlcad | if that all works, and it should as it's exactly what we need it to do for mged, then the test passes and system tcl is used. if it fails, the build falls back to using internal (and this of course all presume that the default enable-tcl-build is in effect, i.e. =auto) |
| 00:20.04 | brlcad | if you force it on or off, it overrides the tests |
| 00:21.04 | brlcad | you find the word versions from me, I've been e-mailing them to folks interested just because I don't really want those versions to propagate around the net (given they are readily editable, but with no revision history/controls or easy merge features) |
| 00:21.18 | brlcad | pm me your e-mail and I'll send you the big one |
| 00:23.01 | starseeker | ok :-) |
| 00:27.08 | yukonbob | brlcad: :) |
| 00:27.25 | yukonbob | starseeker: are you working on docbook-ing? |
| 00:27.46 | starseeker | I"m going to try ;-) |
| 00:28.07 | yukonbob | nice -- I've been threatening to do the same, but haven't done anything yet... |
| 00:28.43 | yukonbob | brlcad: I've never heard to ms-word master copies of the docs that generated the pdfs, though -- am I understanding correctly that there are such docs? |
| 00:29.25 | louipc | how would you docbook it? |
| 00:29.38 | louipc | I was thinking of working with the poppler project because they can already convert to html |
| 00:30.09 | louipc | and they do convert to some weird custom xml format so why not make it docbook instead? |
| 00:30.59 | brlcad | yukonbob: yes.. hrm, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the last time we were talking about this a couple months ago too when that other guy was working on it |
| 00:30.59 | starseeker | I was planning on going more primitive at first - just get the text and images out of word into something sane and go over it by hand |
| 00:31.07 | brlcad | i'd sent him one of the .doc's at the time |
| 00:31.12 | starseeker | good way to learn about the system while I'm at it |
| 00:32.40 | yukonbob | brlcad: if it was mentioned, I missed it or forgot it... no matter, though; now I'm up to speed. |
| 01:15.48 | brlcad | okay, uploaded |
| 03:55.51 | starseeker | For extracting content from the word docs, the wv tools seem to have done OK so far. wvDocBook generates a rather odd looking xml file and (more importantly) the image files, and wvText generates a readable text file (trying Vol I) |
| 03:56.16 | starseeker | Now the hard part - what the toolchain is for writing and processing a docbook file. |
| 03:58.04 | starseeker | brlcad: I'm seeing things like saxon, fop, xalan docbook-xml-dtd, docbook-xsl-stylesheets, etc. - how did you want to approach this? |
| 03:58.16 | starseeker | a lot of the tools I'm seeing recommended need java |
| 03:59.03 | starseeker | I'm also hearing sgml is no longer the direction to take with docbook, xml is the "new" way to go. |
| 03:59.06 | brlcad | ideally the one with the least dependencies, easiest to maintain, easiest to install, and most portable |
| 03:59.16 | starseeker | hrm |
| 03:59.21 | brlcad | yeah, definitely xml docbook or xml docbook lite |
| 03:59.25 | louipc | cool |
| 03:59.38 | brlcad | doesn't matter if it's 5 or 4.5 |
| 03:59.42 | starseeker | Apache FOP seems to be a "big player" in this... |
| 04:00.09 | brlcad | FOP is, but it can also be a pain to set up |
| 04:00.18 | starseeker | Can we make do without it? |
| 04:00.42 | brlcad | ideally something that doesn't require the java vm is easier to manage |
| 04:00.57 | brlcad | but if something else java-based is that much better, then so be it |
| 04:01.05 | starseeker | If we want an XSL-FO processor... let's see what else is out there... |
| 04:01.09 | louipc | starseeker: what are those wv tools? |
| 04:01.26 | brlcad | i've used a handful of the docbook processors, and none of them seemed "great" .. so it's really just finding the one that's the least of a headache |
| 04:01.28 | starseeker | They're used by Abiword, IIRC. |
| 04:02.11 | starseeker | "Tool for conversion of MSWord doc and rtf files to something readable" |
| 04:02.14 | brlcad | ideally there will be a make target like 'make doc' or ./configure --enable-docs that will generate the documentation by running the docbook processor(s) |
| 04:02.20 | starseeker | http://wvware.sourceforge.net/ |
| 04:02.54 | louipc | thanks |
| 04:02.54 | starseeker | There's a wv2 which I think is an update - may not be needed for this case, but we'll see |
| 04:03.07 | brlcad | so something that can be readily set up under freebsd would be nice so it can be tied to the website automatically via automated builds |
| 04:04.21 | starseeker | Does xmlroff ring any bells? |
| 04:05.00 | brlcad | not particularly |
| 04:05.54 | brlcad | output formats of importance are pdf and html, other useful outputs would be txt, rtf/doc, ps, and odf |
| 04:06.29 | starseeker | I'm going to have to take some time and dig - the tool chain for docbook seems both complex and... er... confusing |
| 04:08.19 | brlcad | it is pretty complex |
| 04:10.45 | louipc | oh wow wv is sweet |
| 04:10.58 | louipc | that does it |
| 04:11.05 | starseeker | Does what? |
| 04:13.15 | louipc | extracts the content and images and references the images in the document :D |
| 04:13.24 | starseeker | Yep :-) |
| 04:13.55 | starseeker | the docbook it spits out I think is not what we want though - it preserves all the literal blank lines, at least at a quick glance |
| 04:14.03 | starseeker | great way to get images though |
| 04:14.12 | starseeker | We want human editable XML |
| 04:14.23 | louipc | yeah empty para |
| 04:14.34 | starseeker | And as I'm digging I'm not seeing too many alternatives to Apache FOP :-( |
| 04:15.29 | starseeker | PassiveTeX is apparently pretty well outdated |
| 04:15.38 | louipc | :/ |
| 04:16.32 | starseeker | Lotta commercial ones... |
| 04:16.49 | starseeker | That's a surprise, I would have thought there would be wider tool support for docbook |
| 04:17.48 | starseeker | I guess we can do it, but there'll have to be some rather extensive documentation on the documentation system ;-) |
| 04:19.09 | starseeker | Oh, well. At least extraction was easy! |
| 04:21.08 | starseeker | brlcad: Is LaTeX out due to it's lack of good output options? |
| 04:21.10 | louipc | :D |
| 04:28.12 | brlcad | starseeker: no, not out of the question, nothing really is |
| 04:28.30 | brlcad | just whatever is easiest to set up and automate that gives the output :) |
| 04:30.28 | brlcad | it doesn't even have to "match" the output, it should just look good |
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| 11:57.55 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I tried to edit an arbn in the graphics menu editor and it said it's not implemented for this kind of primitive |
| 11:58.27 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I want to ask the coefficients for the planes, which actually define a normal vector, is it a vector that points out of the body or into the body? |
| 12:31.11 | *** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 13:19.19 | ``Erik | could also use 'jade' like the fbsd project... :D |
| 13:31.17 | brlcad | I liked jade when I was working that area |
| 13:31.32 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: did you figure out yesterday anything on my machine? |
| 13:31.34 | brlcad | it's a bit of a trick to get docbook/xml to work with it, but it works |
| 13:31.50 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yeah, I compiled and ran the latest with no problems :) |
| 13:31.59 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: remotely through X? |
| 13:32.03 | brlcad | yep |
| 13:32.08 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: latest == which version? |
| 13:32.18 | brlcad | latest == latest sources in cvs |
| 13:32.49 | brlcad | could have made 7.10.0 work, but that tarball had a few files missing and some other minor annoyances not worth even disabling |
| 13:32.53 | Z80-Boy | what did you type to run mged? |
| 13:32.57 | brlcad | s/few files/a file/ |
| 13:33.20 | Z80-Boy | did I supply a corrupted tarball? |
| 13:33.48 | brlcad | no, there's just a file missing from the dist that was fixed that same day, but missing nonetheless |
| 13:33.59 | brlcad | .2 fixed it shortly thereafter |
| 13:34.05 | brlcad | and the fix is simple, just turn off jove |
| 13:34.12 | brlcad | or touch the missing file |
| 13:34.12 | Z80-Boy | what did you type in which dir to run the CVS mged? I want to try too. |
| 13:34.51 | brlcad | well, ideally you should install, otherwise the problem you were probably running into is an LD_LIBRARY_PATH issue since Tcl/Tk only build as shared libraries by default |
| 13:35.05 | brlcad | so you have to install to get the tcl/tk libs, or you have to set your ld_lib path |
| 13:35.08 | Z80-Boy | but you couldn't install you weren't root |
| 13:35.18 | Z80-Boy | so what did you type to verify that mged works? |
| 13:35.21 | brlcad | sure, I just set the ld_lib path |
| 13:35.43 | brlcad | LD_LIBRARY_PATH=src/other/tcl/unix:src/other/tk/unix src/mged/mged |
| 13:36.14 | Z80-Boy | Really, seems to work. |
| 13:36.23 | brlcad | you doubted? |
| 13:36.30 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 13:36.34 | brlcad | :) |
| 13:36.40 | Z80-Boy | how can I do the CVS checkout and compile myself? |
| 13:36.51 | brlcad | ~cadcvs |
| 13:36.51 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 13:36.57 | Z80-Boy | wow :) |
| 13:37.59 | Z80-Boy | missing information: "and press ENTER". |
| 13:38.11 | Z80-Boy | (to get through the password) |
| 13:38.13 | ``Erik | you need to make sure that you have reasonably recent vrsions of automake, autoconf and libtool and you need to run the 'autogen.sh' script |
| 13:38.29 | brlcad | yeah, he had those |
| 13:38.31 | Z80-Boy | which brl-cad must have done? |
| 13:38.41 | brlcad | those obsd really annoying wraps them so that you have to set env vars |
| 13:38.52 | brlcad | yeah, you have to run: |
| 13:39.03 | brlcad | export AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.60 |
| 13:39.15 | brlcad | export AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.10 |
| 13:39.25 | Z80-Boy | http://store.grainsurfboards.com/products/the-root |
| 13:39.25 | brlcad | or something like that, might have your versions wrong |
| 13:39.43 | brlcad | just look for: locate bin/automake |
| 13:40.32 | brlcad | put that version into the vars |
| 13:40.52 | ``Erik | the number of 'menstraul calendars' on freshmeat is just disturbing O.o |
| 13:42.42 | brlcad | er, one? |
| 13:43.06 | brlcad | i see one app for a mobile phone, but nothing else |
| 13:43.20 | ``Erik | I've seen a fistful listed over the years |
| 13:43.29 | Z80-Boy | .oO(those women) |
| 13:43.59 | brlcad | nothing coming up on search, this must be something you look for a lot :P |
| 13:44.24 | ``Erik | well, probably a combination of geeks who've never had to worry about that and married geeks trying to breed |
| 13:44.34 | ``Erik | heh, yes, I must control my ovum. O.o |
| 13:44.51 | brlcad | there's three more if you search my ation |
| 13:45.00 | brlcad | s/my/by/ |
| 13:46.44 | ``Erik | google pulls up a slew of 'em if you just dump keywords in |
| 13:47.00 | ``Erik | but a lot are multiple hit dealies... project page, activity stats, screenshot, etc all for one project |
| 13:48.52 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877BE3.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:02.12 | Z80-Boy | so *_VERSION set, ./autogen.sh ran |
| 14:04.54 | Z80-Boy | 7.10.3, woohoo :) |
| 14:05.48 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: question: the normal vectors for boundary planes specified when building arbn on commandline, are they pointing outwards or inwards relative to the resulting solid? |
| 15:08.40 | brlcad | outwards |
| 15:09.08 | Z80-Boy | and it asks for distance between the plane and the origin |
| 15:09.26 | Z80-Boy | Is this still the distance itself when the vector doesn't have a unit length? |
| 15:10.17 | brlcad | the vector will be unitized |
| 15:10.34 | brlcad | so if you give something > 1, then length will be scaled |
| 15:10.49 | brlcad | if the vector is the size you want, then the distance/scaling factor should be 1 |
| 15:10.59 | Z80-Boy | I don't get it |
| 15:11.35 | Z80-Boy | "so if you give something > 1" -> does "something" refer to vector length or the distance? |
| 15:12.02 | Z80-Boy | "then length will be scaled" -> does this mean I enter 800 and the plane may possibly end up being 1600 instead of 800? |
| 15:12.03 | brlcad | example: in arbn arbn 6 1 0 0 10 0 1 0 10 0 0 1 10 -1 0 0 10 0 -1 0 10 0 0 -1 10 .. creates a 20x20x20 box because of the unit vectors |
| 15:12.25 | brlcad | if you give a vector length > 1 |
| 15:14.13 | brlcad | example2: in arbn2 arbn 6 5 0 0 10 0 1 0 10 0 0 1 10 -1 0 0 10 0 -1 0 10 0 0 -1 1 .. creates a smaller box because of the 5 0 0 vector (so length is 10 / 5 = 2) .. making the box 12x20x20 |
| 15:14.48 | Z80-Boy | oh so it's a misnomer in brl-cad |
| 15:15.01 | brlcad | oop, missing the last 10 |
| 15:15.04 | Z80-Boy | it asks for distance, but actually it's not distance, but the fourth equation coefficient |
| 15:15.48 | brlcad | er, it's still a distance, but still also scaled by the vector |
| 15:15.55 | brlcad | it could probably say "scaled distance" |
| 15:16.25 | Z80-Boy | this is really frustrating - I am already trying to determine how to make a triangle with chopped corners for the 3rd day |
| 15:16.32 | Z80-Boy | First I read the Volume II blah blah |
| 15:16.55 | Z80-Boy | which gave me a lot of irrelevant information, but the really important one - which way the vector points and what the fourth number means - was absent |
| 15:17.14 | Z80-Boy | Then I tried to use the graphical clickable editor just to figure out it isn't supported for arbn |
| 15:17.23 | Z80-Boy | ted is also not supported for arbn... |
| 15:17.36 | brlcad | well, you could have figured out "which way the vector points" in a minute by just creating one |
| 15:18.05 | Z80-Boy | At least now, after several hours fiddling with calculator, I can put in the number and with a bit of luck not make a mistake a get the right shape |
| 15:18.16 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: how? |
| 15:18.40 | brlcad | in ? |
| 15:18.47 | Z80-Boy | how to try it out? |
| 15:19.20 | brlcad | by creating a simple shape, like in the example I gave |
| 15:19.28 | brlcad | simple box, boom done |
| 15:19.56 | brlcad | had the vectors been reversed, it would have been pretty apparent |
| 15:19.58 | Z80-Boy | hmm but if the shape doesn't display then I don't know if it's because my theory about how it works inside is wrong or I forgot some hidden aspect of mged which is possibly not mentioned in the manual... |
| 15:20.06 | Z80-Boy | A method of trial and error is not acceptable |
| 15:20.15 | Z80-Boy | It should be documented |
| 15:20.39 | brlcad | are we really going to have this same discussion again? |
| 15:20.41 | brlcad | of course it should |
| 15:20.45 | brlcad | are you going to document it? |
| 15:20.45 | Z80-Boy | also those things like "what it really does depends on mged's internal states" -> great. How do I know now how? |
| 15:21.01 | Z80-Boy | If I get really pissed, maybe even yes :) |
| 15:21.18 | brlcad | technically it's not even that it's inward or outward |
| 15:21.24 | brlcad | because it's plane coefficients |
| 15:21.41 | brlcad | you never define a point and a vector, you just define the vector |
| 15:21.47 | Z80-Boy | it's some kind of equation like ax+bx+cz<=/=>/</>d |
| 15:21.47 | brlcad | ergo, it has to be from the origin |
| 15:22.20 | brlcad | where everything is an outward direction effectively |
| 15:22.43 | Z80-Boy | I guess somehow in the U. S. Army learned it 30 years ago from the source code and now it doesn't have to be documented until he dies |
| 15:23.09 | Z80-Boy | and someone else has to take over his chair and start typing the numbers instead of him, am I right? ;-) |
| 15:23.23 | brlcad | he/his? who? |
| 15:23.45 | Z80-Boy | What is actually the official documentation of brl-cad? |
| 15:24.19 | brlcad | the pdf's on the website, the manual pages, and everthing in doc |
| 15:24.37 | Z80-Boy | Like a lot of mysteries around BRL-CAD |
| 15:24.55 | Z80-Boy | For example - there are Volumes II, III, IV - is there also a mysterious Volume I? If yes, what's inside? |
| 15:25.05 | brlcad | a lot of "expert-friendly" knowledge that you learn the more you use it |
| 15:25.17 | brlcad | and a lot of work needed on making it more user-friendly and easy to use of course |
| 15:25.22 | Z80-Boy | the problem is I use BRL-CAD only ocassionally on Ronja |
| 15:25.49 | Z80-Boy | sometimes I go soldering, sometimes I go welding, sometimes debug electronics, sometimes I need to add a new 3d model or modify existing one |
| 15:25.57 | Z80-Boy | For that I need a usable reference guide |
| 15:26.04 | brlcad | dude, I completely agree |
| 15:26.11 | brlcad | the issue is just a matter of time and priorities |
| 15:26.18 | Z80-Boy | And not information where the crucial detail is always missing |
| 15:26.32 | brlcad | i could be working on docs, and that would help for a short while .. but then there are bigger problems that would go unaddressed |
| 15:26.39 | Z80-Boy | Is it possible to change the source of Volume II and add notes about what it really does at the latest detail level? |
| 15:26.49 | brlcad | other problems that *only* I can take care of at the moment |
| 15:27.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/qray.c: change (char)NULL to CNULL ( (char)0x0 ) to quiet the warnings about casting to different size |
| 15:27.05 | brlcad | it is possible, that's part of the docbook work we were talking about earlier |
| 15:27.06 | Z80-Boy | I always remember that arbn does a n-plane demarked body but never remember if the inequality is this or that way |
| 15:27.20 | Z80-Boy | if a rotation goes counter or clockwise and that's exactly what's missing in these references |
| 15:27.25 | brlcad | vol I is on the website, it's just exceptionally brief |
| 15:27.48 | Z80-Boy | Where is Vol I ? I can't find it |
| 15:27.55 | brlcad | frankly, I didn't remember what the inputs to an arbn were either, I just made one and found out |
| 15:27.58 | brlcad | it's the first link |
| 15:28.03 | brlcad | under docs |
| 15:28.27 | Z80-Boy | Overview of BRL-CAD? |
| 15:28.30 | brlcad | yep |
| 15:28.51 | Z80-Boy | But there's no indication it's Volume I! |
| 15:29.23 | brlcad | the docs predate the open sourcing and the new build system, so vol I actually included all the details about the license agreement, the old build system installation instructions per platform, and other details that are simply no longer relevant |
| 15:29.53 | brlcad | uhm, who cares if it doesn't say it's vol I ... wtf does that matter? |
| 15:30.14 | Z80-Boy | Now you saw it |
| 15:30.17 | brlcad | that's really getting critical on something that really doesn't matter |
| 15:30.21 | ``Erik | it has a '1' by it, does that count? |
| 15:30.43 | ``Erik | just like volume 2 has a '2' by it... |
| 15:30.43 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:30.46 | brlcad | there are plenty of real things to complain about, a label on that doc isn't one of them |
| 15:30.50 | Z80-Boy | Then the doxygen documentation would be volume 7 |
| 15:31.01 | Z80-Boy | And ARL technical reports volume 8 |
| 15:31.09 | ``Erik | ok? |
| 15:31.16 | brlcad | does it matter? |
| 15:31.19 | brlcad | seriously? |
| 15:31.24 | Z80-Boy | I didn't complain I just asked where is the volume I |
| 15:31.57 | Z80-Boy | Becuase I thought the information that's missing in Vol II is maybe there |
| 15:32.29 | Z80-Boy | What is supposed to contain the most detailed reference on arbn? Volume II? |
| 15:32.33 | brlcad | you asked, I answered :) |
| 15:33.13 | brlcad | it's just not even worth the edit, or this discussion to futz with it since the effort that is needed is the conversion to docbook |
| 15:34.26 | Z80-Boy | What needs to be converted to docbook? Only the Volume-* PDF's? Or also the manual pages? Online helps? doxygen doc? |
| 15:34.59 | brlcad | the vol pdfs for starters, ideally everything and just have the various formats auto-generated |
| 15:37.25 | Z80-Boy | OMG is it rasterized at billion DPI? |
| 15:37.27 | brlcad | the "volume" formats aren't necessarily going to be preserved .. some info is verbose/redundant, some info is outright missing |
| 15:37.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:38.24 | Z80-Boy | Printing into ps and running through ps2pdf didn't help... |
| 15:42.47 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Reference_Card_front.png http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Reference_Card_back.png |
| 15:48.31 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 15:48.34 | Z80-Boy | but I have one at home |
| 15:49.23 | Z80-Boy | 2 pages PNG, 700kB each, that's not very practical |
| 15:50.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: fix sign difference |
| 15:50.34 | Z80-Boy | I made this: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/refcard.png |
| 15:51.42 | ``Erik | hah, doh, didn't even know z80-boy was karel :D |
| 15:52.45 | Z80-Boy | L0CALZ 0NLY |
| 15:54.13 | Z80-Boy | Now I can open it in Links on one desktop and just grab the screen with mouse and move it around :) |
| 15:55.01 | Maloeran | Ahah http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6998619.stm |
| 15:56.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:00.18 | Z80-Boy | I put it together cut out the white strip in the middle, around the image, scaled as much down as it would be still legible and converted to 16 colors without dithering (to not get jagged text) to not make the PNG load long |
| 16:51.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: re-organize and clean up (fixing compiler warnings) |
| 16:52.28 | minute | brlcad: How is LDAP going? |
| 16:52.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/count.c: explicitely set id's type as int |
| 17:27.01 | ``Erik | heh, I hasn't thought about that before... 'e' is for draw and 'd' is for erase |
| 17:27.01 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ;) -- what does 'e' stand for? 'd' could easily be 'delete', but 'e'? |
| 17:32.09 | brlcad | woot, finally got rounded corner working |
| 17:33.37 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: uploaded your image, thanks |
| 17:34.00 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you're welcome |
| 17:34.28 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.png |
| 17:34.47 | brlcad | I'll link it on the new site as data is migrated |
| 17:35.22 | Z80-Boy | cool |
| 17:35.48 | Z80-Boy | the card looks quite helpful actually I didn't use it because it was so slow to turn the pages |
| 17:36.15 | Z80-Boy | (xpdf viewer) |
| 17:37.05 | Z80-Boy | is it allowed to use the BRL-CAD logo in a free licensed movie end titles? |
| 17:37.41 | Z80-Boy | something like 3D modelling software (BRL-CAD logo) U. S. Army Aberdeen Proving Ground or however it is? |
| 17:38.36 | Z80-Boy | cause it looks quite cool |
| 17:39.40 | brlcad | welcome to use any of these: http://brlcad.org/images/logo/ |
| 17:41.27 | ``Erik | bob: I dunno, "edit"? *shrug* |
| 17:42.26 | Z80-Boy | They have "Army Research Laboratory" replaced with Open Source |
| 17:42.37 | Z80-Boy | I like more the ARL ones it makes an impression that a serious shit is going on |
| 17:43.24 | brlcad | and that same reason that it gives that impression makes it a bit harder to redistribute/use :) |
| 17:43.51 | Z80-Boy | cause of the ARL trademark or whatever? |
| 17:43.55 | Z80-Boy | So I should use the Open Source one? |
| 17:44.03 | brlcad | probably |
| 17:44.37 | Z80-Boy | but I can put ARL into the credits, right? |
| 17:44.59 | brlcad | you're making it, you can credit whomever you like |
| 17:46.22 | brlcad | the intention, however, is to move more and more towards a more familiar "global" open source project with developers and participants all over the world involved |
| 17:46.33 | Z80-Boy | OK |
| 17:46.49 | brlcad | ARL is still a major participant and funder of some of the developers, but in the end they're just a participant like everyone else |
| 17:47.00 | Z80-Boy | cause then I would have to start writing ARL et al.? |
| 17:47.19 | Z80-Boy | are there any non-ARL developers? |
| 17:47.26 | brlcad | sure, plenty |
| 17:47.34 | brlcad | how active they are varies heavily from time to time |
| 17:47.49 | Z80-Boy | does this opening mean that ARL is loding interest in the project and it's having some better software instead? |
| 17:47.54 | brlcad | and the ones paid certainly are the most active, but that won't necessarily always be true |
| 17:48.06 | brlcad | not in the least |
| 17:48.09 | Z80-Boy | loding -> losing |
| 17:48.18 | brlcad | the point is to encourage others to participate and get involved |
| 17:48.36 | brlcad | instead of just having people sitting on the other side of a fence waiting for stuff to get thrown over |
| 17:48.52 | Z80-Boy | I just don't understand armies are usually secretive and now they open a 3D modeling tool with 30 years of devel |
| 17:49.11 | ``Erik | hum, lots of stuff has been released through the years |
| 17:49.40 | ``Erik | 'ping', the improvements to the bsd4.2 network stack that found its way into winderz and pretty much every other current ipv4 capable os... |
| 17:49.51 | Z80-Boy | from ARL? |
| 17:49.54 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 17:49.57 | Z80-Boy | lol :) |
| 17:50.24 | ``Erik | from the same team, even... the guy who architected and did most of BRL-CAD is the one who did ping and the stack stuff |
| 17:50.49 | Z80-Boy | and now is dead because of a car crash? |
| 17:50.52 | ``Erik | plus loads of publically available documents come outta here |
| 17:50.54 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 17:51.05 | Z80-Boy | was it his mistake or the other's one? |
| 17:51.12 | ``Erik | <-- wasn't there |
| 17:51.45 | Maloeran | <-- wasn't born |
| 17:51.49 | Z80-Boy | I take it as an indication that road travel is dangerous |
| 17:51.51 | ``Erik | um |
| 17:51.54 | ``Erik | in 2000? |
| 17:52.00 | Maloeran | Oh, the guy died in 2000? |
| 17:52.02 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 17:52.11 | Maloeran | I thought it was a very old story, from the beginning of ping and brlcad |
| 17:52.27 | ``Erik | ping was '83, BRL-CAD kinda sorta started in '79 |
| 19:10.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: |
| 19:10.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Fixed a bug with funky matrix manipulation. Fixed a bug with the old object |
| 19:10.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: being written with the new matrix applied. |
| 19:14.43 | minute | brlcad: How is progress on LDAP? |
| 19:18.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: rotation on v5 primivites |
| 19:28.17 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:28.35 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: now my mged works, thanks |
| 19:37.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: search the tcl environment for an editor variable |
| 19:38.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: editor tcl variable |
| 19:39.35 | ``Erik | the comb cloning stuff seems fundamentally wrong to me O.o |
| 19:40.54 | Z80-Boy | It even seems to calculate with rt, another sign that the CVS works on my OpenBSD machine |
| 19:41.08 | Z80-Boy | Didn't have any problem did just the autogensh ./configure make make install |
| 19:42.01 | ``Erik | <-- did a fistful of fixes a bit back for obsd41 in a vm |
| 19:42.15 | ``Erik | didja up to 41, or are you still on 40? |
| 19:44.25 | Z80-Boy | yes I'm still 4.0 |
| 19:44.31 | ``Erik | hum, nifty |
| 19:46.10 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 20:05.17 | Z80-Boy | that's good that it works even on the older version |
| 20:05.28 | Z80-Boy | it's actually not so old. |
| 20:06.55 | ``Erik | it worked fine on 38 *shrug* |
| 20:07.46 | Z80-Boy | hehe |
| 20:55.35 | brlcad | minute: I've been working on the website style all day today, tweaking style some more |
| 20:56.33 | brlcad | fixed the block page, modified the headers, changed the menu style and titles, and a few other details throughout |
| 21:01.24 | minute | brlcad: cool |
| 21:03.34 | brlcad | i'm not sure how to apply the theme to the wiki? |
| 21:03.55 | brlcad | i modified the block template to get the rounded corners |
| 21:04.12 | brlcad | I'd presume the same can be applied to the wiki, but can you point me at the template files? |
| 21:04.17 | minute | brlcad: They automatically apply to the wiki I think. |
| 21:04.24 | minute | it is a symlinked template |
| 21:04.42 | minute | try purging the parser cache via adding ?action=purge to the url |
| 21:07.14 | brlcad | still not there |
| 21:07.37 | brlcad | do you see it on, http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation |
| 21:07.56 | brlcad | it's picked up the other css changes |
| 21:08.00 | brlcad | but not the template change |
| 21:10.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: Display all newly generated objects, not just the first. Autoview after display. |
| 21:10.55 | minute | hmm |
| 21:10.56 | brlcad | block.tpl.php is the tempalte page |
| 21:11.08 | minute | yeah |
| 21:11.13 | minute | that is included in the mediawiki thing |
| 21:11.19 | brlcad | hrmp |
| 21:12.35 | Z80-Boy | sounds like brlcad is going to use mediawiki? |
| 21:14.20 | brlcad | minute: it's not in the source, it's using the block class, but not the template |
| 21:14.32 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes |
| 21:14.45 | brlcad | it's in their docs, iirc |
| 21:14.47 | minute | the mediawiki sidebar is missing some elemts of the blocks in drupal |
| 21:15.29 | minute | wow the iPod nano is nice |
| 21:16.19 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I had mediawiki on Ronja shortly and it got filled with viagra-cialis link spam |
| 21:16.29 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: heh |
| 21:16.38 | Z80-Boy | I hope brl-cad will have it condfigured in a way that this is not possible |
| 21:16.42 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:16.49 | brlcad | already is |
| 21:17.00 | minute | fixing as we speak |
| 21:17.11 | Z80-Boy | good |
| 21:17.12 | brlcad | following some stuff that we use on bzflag's mediawiki install |
| 21:17.27 | brlcad | which has been spam-free for a long time now (with massive exposure) |
| 21:17.49 | Z80-Boy | I abandoned the wiki after the incident since it would take so much work to clean all the pages - and people tended to submit incorrect information that was causing trouble to other people |
| 21:18.08 | minute | install captcha and poof spam gone |
| 21:18.11 | Z80-Boy | Like a population plan where a couple of parts had the wrong value -> very nasty |
| 21:18.23 | brlcad | has to be a good captcha, though |
| 21:18.44 | Z80-Boy | captcha can be outsourced to horny people who fill it in and get a porn video for it |
| 21:18.47 | brlcad | we went through two other captchas that were pretty useless .. still got loads of hits |
| 21:18.59 | brlcad | especially since we wanted to retain the ability allow anonymous edits |
| 21:19.20 | brlcad | recaptcha's pretty darn good though |
| 21:22.37 | minute | brlcad: xbox XD |
| 21:23.05 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:23.24 | brlcad | i can't claim that, though, took example from another site |
| 21:23.33 | minute | heh, I understand |
| 21:23.37 | minute | corners are dificult |
| 21:23.45 | ``Erik | heh, is there a captcha that makes ya answer stupid questions? like it shows a munged up "2+2" and you have to type "4" ? :) |
| 21:24.55 | brlcad | that was another thing we added to bz's form -- first we tried just "type the name of this game here" .. and if it had 'bz' anywhere in the answer, it let them past |
| 21:25.12 | brlcad | surprisingly still got too much spam (few times a week) |
| 21:25.37 | brlcad | same when we added a simple equation in the php that you had to answer to register |
| 21:26.00 | brlcad | definitely decreased the spam massively, but still too much for our hit-rate |
| 21:26.23 | ``Erik | hm, if it's just on register, or it's always the same, it'd be trivial for a spammer to circumvent |
| 21:30.32 | brlcad | nah, it was random |
| 21:31.21 | Z80-Boy | Hehe reCaptcha interesting concept using captcha to digitize books |
| 21:31.55 | Z80-Boy | someone could make fake wikis which spammers would try to break through so they would distribute the recaptchas to porn sites, people would solve them and the wiki would discard the info after 5 minutes or so |
| 21:32.10 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:32.18 | Z80-Boy | Interesting how it pushes AI forward |
| 21:32.34 | brlcad | yeah, it's pretty cool |
| 21:32.44 | brlcad | even if it gets fully cracked, it'll help :) |
| 21:33.28 | minute | brlcad: fixed |
| 21:33.37 | starseeker | Z80-Boy: Ah, yes :-) I saw that digitizing books from captcha idea - I like it |
| 21:34.41 | brlcad | awesome! |
| 21:34.45 | brlcad | how'd you do it? |
| 21:34.59 | minute | I had to add the corners to the sidebar divs in mediawiki |
| 21:35.10 | brlcad | where are those files? |
| 21:35.16 | brlcad | (in case I need to tweak) |
| 21:35.17 | minute | page.tpl.php |
| 21:35.23 | starseeker | brlcad: I'm not quite sure how to proceed here. If neither precise formatting nor precise content duplication is needed, I can probably have something reasonable looking for Vol1 (as a test case) pretty quickly. That would have a very "default" LaTeX look though. Would it be worth a test case? |
| 21:35.24 | brlcad | really, hrmph |
| 21:35.42 | minute | brlcad: there is an if statementn if it is drupal then drupal deals with it, otherwise we deal with it. |
| 21:35.56 | brlcad | starseeker: it really depends.. i'm also not sure I'd focus on vol I regardless |
| 21:36.08 | starseeker | brlcad: it's short ;-) |
| 21:36.22 | brlcad | it's also 90% there in html form :) |
| 21:36.31 | starseeker | before I wade into the big ones, I'd like to have a rough idea of what's needed for formatting |
| 21:36.43 | brlcad | well, what approach are you thinking of taking? |
| 21:36.59 | brlcad | vol III and IV are short(er) |
| 21:37.03 | starseeker | wv output a pretty good txt representation, and the docbook converstion extracted the images |
| 21:37.14 | brlcad | so then it's just docbook cleanup? |
| 21:37.29 | starseeker | Well, that's one option. I prefer LaTeX personally |
| 21:37.29 | Z80-Boy | Can they also make AS - Artificial Stupidity? |
| 21:37.30 | brlcad | because messy docbook is better than no docbook for a starter :) |
| 21:37.59 | starseeker | I have a fair bit of familiarity with LaTeX, and can probably get something basic put together pretty quickly |
| 21:38.09 | brlcad | starseeker: latex is great stuff, but just about every major doc project has migrated or is in the progress of migrating to docbook |
| 21:38.24 | starseeker | brlcad: Ah. |
| 21:38.49 | brlcad | latex doesn't fully decouple the presentation either, so it's harder to apply it to "non-traditional" output formats |
| 21:39.06 | brlcad | they're generally a bear to set up, but once set up, they just work |
| 21:39.24 | brlcad | most of the work is in the stylesheet, like web work |
| 21:39.33 | starseeker | If we go that route, I'd recommend adding the full toolchain to the src/other directory :-/ |
| 21:39.38 | brlcad | minute: how does it look to you? |
| 21:40.15 | brlcad | picking / evaluating the toolchain is part of the work :) |
| 21:40.15 | minute | in IE it has crappy antialiasing and the bottom set of corners are broken. otherwise good |
| 21:40.30 | starseeker | brlcad: OK, I'll work on docbook. Do you have any good examples that would make good "guides"? |
| 21:41.07 | brlcad | some platforms make the tools really easy, because they do everything in the package management system |
| 21:41.27 | brlcad | I know there are RH rpms for docbook-tools, there's probably something similar in ports |
| 21:41.54 | brlcad | the docbook manual is out of date with respect to the tools now |
| 21:42.23 | starseeker | Right, but I'll need to familiarize myself with the markup |
| 21:42.57 | brlcad | it always has been |
| 21:43.19 | brlcad | and likely will be for a long time to come -- it's still one of the best at dealing with equations |
| 21:43.47 | brlcad | might be useful to familiarize and model after what the guys are doing for the linuxdoc project |
| 21:44.24 | brlcad | http://tldp.org/ |
| 21:45.49 | brlcad | nifty, http://tldp.org/LDP/LDP-Author-Guide/html/x2docbook.html |
| 21:46.42 | brlcad | that's for the import side, the bigger problem is docbook -> output |
| 21:47.46 | starseeker | http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/xml-matters3.html |
| 21:47.55 | starseeker | True, but I need something to try to convert first ;-) |
| 21:48.01 | brlcad | ah, cool -- looks like they use jade |
| 21:48.15 | brlcad | at least, they have tools that they've wrapped over jade in their docbook-utils package |
| 21:48.39 | brlcad | based off of redhat's docbook-tools package |
| 21:51.33 | brlcad | found it in ports, installing |
| 21:51.45 | brlcad | you have an account on the server? |
| 21:52.33 | starseeker | me? not to my knowledge |
| 21:57.22 | minute | goodnight |
| 22:01.16 | starseeker | night |
| 22:01.23 | starseeker | ah-ha - found it. |
| 22:01.28 | starseeker | Hrm. Docbook 3.1 |
| 22:01.34 | starseeker | oh, well - enough for a start |
| 22:02.17 | starseeker | brlcad: I think I've gotten the toolchain installed on my Gentoo box, at least most of it - there doesn't seem to be a convenient "docbook-tools" meta-ebuild unless I'm missing something |
| 22:03.06 | brlcad | there probably is :) |
| 22:03.13 | brlcad | maybe docbook-utils |
| 22:03.34 | starseeker | nope. |
| 22:03.54 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 22:04.22 | starseeker | docbook-sgml-utils... but we want XML |
| 22:05.24 | brlcad | that probably works |
| 22:06.08 | brlcad | xml is a subset of sgml, you just provide an xml descriptor instead of docbook, and apply the stylesheet as needed |
| 22:06.46 | starseeker | OK |
| 22:06.50 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:06.51 | brlcad | http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/DocBook-OpenJade-SGML-XML-HOWTO.html#AEN482 |
| 22:07.04 | starseeker | :-) |
| 22:09.31 | starseeker | brlcad: I'll take some time and go over Docbook - I've got some terminology to adsorb. |
| 22:19.21 | brlcad | minute: hrmph, broken you say .. that's no good .. and goodnight! thanks for fixing the wiki template |
| 22:19.35 | brlcad | i'll try not to break it again too much :) |
| 22:26.01 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 22:26.22 | Z80-Boy | Hmm the research in AI may lead to |
| 22:26.26 | ``Erik | <-- digs latex a lot, but would probably go back to sucking fbsd's project wang and imitate their doc sgml setup O:-) |
| 22:26.38 | Z80-Boy | instead of building something intelligent we realize we all are stupid |
| 22:28.50 | Z80-Boy | "task difficult for computers are easy for humans and vice versa. For example motoric skills are easy for humans" -> didn't feel like that when I was trying to learn to surf |
| 22:29.10 | Z80-Boy | reCaptcha is a good thought though |
| 22:29.30 | brlcad | more importantly, it's actually effective (so far) |
| 22:30.12 | Z80-Boy | Actually do you know that burrows-wheeler algorithm for compression? |
| 22:31.53 | Z80-Boy | maybe concepts - like a table - are not like numbers in out minds, but like pointers. |
| 22:32.06 | Z80-Boy | A table would be like a place in our experience. |
| 22:32.16 | Z80-Boy | Or more exactly a set of closely related places |
| 22:32.38 | Z80-Boy | Set of all moments in our life when a table played some role |
| 22:33.31 | Z80-Boy | burrows wheeler can associate between positions in a text without actually knowing into what units it should break the text first to figure out what to match with what |
| 22:34.05 | Z80-Boy | it's a damn simple algoritm - a qsort called on a pointer array where strcmp() is the compare function. |
| 23:48.18 | *** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) | |
| 23:48.25 | qazwsx | I'm working on a procedural modeling project on LInux, so I'm looking for something that allows me to script in extrusions + boolearn operatons on solid objects / water tight meshes. Blender is not very stable for this ... anyone know how brlcad is for these operations? |
| 23:48.58 | brlcad | heh, it's kinda built for that sort of thing |
| 23:49.25 | qazwsx | really? |
| 23:49.27 | brlcad | there's a C api for doing this, with loads of examples in the src/proc-db directory of the source distribution |
| 23:49.34 | qazwsx | victory is mine |
| 23:49.36 | qazwsx | muhahahahaha |
| 23:49.54 | brlcad | there's also a fully-scriptable mged interface that you can script for in Tcl or build up commands from another scripting language |
| 23:50.01 | qazwsx | so this supports things like "here's a 2D curve, make it into a 2D surface", here's a 2D surface, make it into a 3D solid |
| 23:50.12 | qazwsx | and "here are two water tight meshes, give me the intersection / union / difference of them/ |
| 23:50.27 | qazwsx | ? |
| 23:50.28 | brlcad | you could work that way, but brl-cad prefers to work predominantly with 3D shapes |
| 23:50.36 | qazwsx | how do I generate 3D shapes? |
| 23:50.46 | qazwsx | (I'm just starting to compile brlcad right now, in ./configure) |
| 23:50.49 | brlcad | we have a sketch primitive that you can use for curves and extrusions, but the primitives are better |
| 23:50.56 | qazwsx | cool |
| 23:51.07 | brlcad | well, do you care about the C api more or the scripting interface? |
| 23:51.12 | qazwsx | since this project is old, I'm guessing a crappy modern day laptop will be fine for it? |
| 23:51.15 | brlcad | they're completely different from each other |
| 23:51.19 | qazwsx | I'm familiar from C to scheme, hmmm |
| 23:51.26 | qazwsx | I really care about procedural modeling |
| 23:51.37 | qazwsx | um, what does the C interface give me? |
| 23:51.42 | brlcad | you can do procedural modeling with either |
| 23:51.50 | qazwsx | (over the scripting langauge) |
| 23:51.52 | brlcad | it gives you speed, and you can hook into libraries |
| 23:52.06 | brlcad | like if you wanted to tie to simulation codes or something else |
| 23:52.19 | qazwsx | ah, no simuation, just generation |
| 23:52.27 | qazwsx | woot, "make" now :-) |
| 23:52.39 | brlcad | another example might be using some l-grammar tree library |
| 23:52.57 | qazwsx | I guess the useful documenation will be "3: Principles of Effective Modeling" and "5: Developing Applications" |
| 23:53.00 | qazwsx | as in l-systems? |
| 23:53.02 | brlcad | or NN's or GA's or whatever.. if you need to hook to a library or need performance, that's the way to go |
| 23:53.06 | brlcad | yeah |
| 23:53.13 | qazwsx | what's NN? neural network? GA? genetic algorithm? |
| 23:53.16 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:53.26 | qazwsx | dumb question: why would I use either NN or GA in modeling? |
| 23:53.58 | brlcad | oh, I could think of a few interesting projects :) |
| 23:54.33 | qazwsx | I can't think of a single reason to use them, so now I'm curious |
| 23:54.37 | brlcad | particularly a GA simulation driving geometry generation, or propagating agent behavior via geometry |
| 23:54.58 | brlcad | shape recognition, bin packing problems, knapsack problems |
| 23:55.17 | brlcad | lots of possibilities |
| 23:55.27 | brlcad | anyways, pretty aside from the point if that's not what you need :) |
| 23:58.47 | brlcad | so there's lots of scripting possibilities, you can script directly in mged (which is a full tcl shell) or outside mged and generate geometry transcripts |
| 23:58.52 | ``Erik | c/scheme? which impl? |
| 23:58.54 | ``Erik | <-- scheme geek |
| 23:59.32 | qazwsx | brl cad supports scheme? |
| 23:59.46 | ``Erik | no :( sadly |
| 23:59.53 | brlcad | here's one example that I recently whipped up in shell script that generates the SGI logo: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/sgi.sh |
| 00:00.24 | brlcad | not directly, only tcl "directly" -- but you can still produce mged transcripts in anything |
| 00:00.53 | qazwsx | how easy is it to embed an interactive langauge into brl-cad, say like lua |
| 00:01.04 | brlcad | to use that script, ./sgi.sh | mged -c sgi.g |
| 00:01.13 | qazwsx | i.e. I want to embed a language in brlcad, so I can control brlcad through this langauge? or is this what the tcl interface provides already? |
| 00:01.17 | ``Erik | there're a lot of C functions to cope with |
| 00:01.25 | ``Erik | and a lot of the core math stuff is cpp macro |
| 00:01.29 | ``Erik | so, uh, not trivial :( |
| 00:01.31 | brlcad | qazwsx: that's pretty much what the tcl interface provides |
| 00:03.19 | brlcad | you could hook in lua into the C-side of mged without too much trouble, but you would be making a crapload of hooks to expose *all* the possible commands in lua .. to do just a small subset wouldn't be too much trouble though |
| 00:03.32 | qazwsx | gotcha |
| 00:03.49 | qazwsx | what's the quickest way to pick up tcl? I'm familiar with asm, c, ruby, python, scheme, ... looking for like the K&R / SICP equiv of tcl |
| 00:03.50 | brlcad | qazwsx: there's also some more scripting examples (both tcl and shell) in the regress/ dir |
| 00:05.21 | brlcad | tcl is pretty straight-forward, it's a relatively simple command language (intentionally simple) where pretty much *everything* is a command (even comments), and it's brace-happy to induce line continuation |
| 00:05.31 | yukonbob | wiki.tcl.tk, "Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk" |
| 00:05.52 | qazwsx | that book is $60.00 so I guess I'll use the wiki :-) |
| 00:06.05 | brlcad | yeah, that's a decent book, there's also http://wiki.tcl.tk/1304 |
| 00:06.18 | yukonbob | book is a good one if you intend to use tcl at all, though... |
| 00:06.29 | brlcad | http://www.beedub.com/book/ |
| 00:07.10 | brlcad | oreilly has a pocket reference too that is good |
| 00:07.16 | yukonbob | *where "use" == using semi-seriously. |
| 00:07.28 | brlcad | but then if you have the manpages installed, you have the book |
| 00:07.42 | yukonbob | otherwise, it's easy to get into, with a few tcl-isms -- so one could just hack at it and see results.... |
| 00:07.52 | qazwsx | lol, apt-get is much faster than amazon's shipping |
| 00:13.03 | qazwsx | wow, brlcad took 20+ mins to compile |
| 00:14.31 | brlcad | now I'm annoyed if it takes more than 5 minutes :) |
| 00:15.38 | qazwsx | hmm, googling got me 0 results on this: ./tclsh: error while loading shared libraries: libOIS-1.0.0.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 00:15.51 | qazwsx | nor does apt-cache search OIS |grep ois show anything interesting; any one now what's wrong? |
| 00:15.54 | qazwsx | (this is from make install) |
| 00:16.33 | qazwsx | oh wait, I think I got it |
| 00:17.20 | brlcad | sounds like you've got a broken tcl installed that it's trying to run? |
| 00:18.00 | qazwsx | no, OIS is some crap left over from OGRE that I hard coded into ~/.bashrc that I have no since removed |
| 00:18.16 | brlcad | ah |
| 00:18.22 | qazwsx | dinner; later; thanks for everyone's help :-) |
| 00:41.53 | *** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) | |
| 01:04.09 | qazwsx | so I just installed brlcad ... which one of the 477 apps in /usr/brlcad/bin should I run to get started? :-) |
| 01:04.50 | louipc | mged is fun |
| 01:05.49 | poolio_ | beset! although it's not installed. |
| 01:06.00 | qazwsx | louipc: cool; thanks |
| 01:06.03 | qazwsx | poolio_: what is beset! ? |
| 01:06.50 | poolio_ | broken :) |
| 01:08.23 | louipc | hehe |
| 01:20.35 | qazwsx | is there an email list for brlcad too, or is it just this irc channel? |
| 01:20.50 | louipc | yeah there are some mailing lists |
| 01:21.14 | louipc | http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292 |
| 01:24.59 | qazwsx | hmm, archives not nearly as filled as I thought it'd be |
| 01:25.10 | louipc | yeah it's pretty low traffic |
| 01:32.19 | starseeker | OK, I think I'm beginning to see a little. Being able to write docbook is simply a question of being aware of and using the appropriate environments for any given section of text |
| 01:32.32 | starseeker | the main difference with html is there are a LOT of pre-defined environments |
| 01:33.07 | starseeker | http://personal.riverusers.com/~thegrendel/abs-guide-5.0.tar.bz2 seems to be an example |
| 01:33.24 | starseeker | or more specifically, abs-book.sgml within that archive |
| 01:34.39 | starseeker | That is a VERY complete de-coupling between content and presentation. |
| 01:35.48 | starseeker | And consequently, there is a lot of trust in the tool chain to make the correct typesetting decisions. |
| 01:36.45 | starseeker | brlcad: I take it most documentation for BRL-CAD isn't going to need any sort of sophisticated equation typesetting? |
| 01:38.47 | starseeker | I see now why you want to use this - it's probably the single best way I've seen to ensure complete uniformity of appearance. |
| 01:39.03 | starseeker | (given identical tool chains that is) |
| 01:57.11 | *** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) | |
| 01:59.38 | ``Erik | det |
| 01:59.39 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, no typesetting |
| 01:59.46 | brlcad | for equations |
| 01:59.51 | brlcad | at least not anytime soon |
| 02:03.03 | qazwsx | okay, brlcad is awesome; mged is awesome too [eom] :-) |
| 02:03.16 | starseeker | OK. I'll go over the environments defined by docbook and make a stab at Volume II |
| 02:03.28 | qazwsx | the whole command interface, and no-save, everything is immmediate interaction is awesome |
| 02:03.34 | Maloeran | I think it's the first time that I see such a great first impression for mged |
| 02:03.45 | louipc | hahah D: |
| 02:03.54 | qazwsx | on top of that, the fact that mged has a vi emulation mode clearly states that the people behind it know what they're doing |
| 02:05.22 | Maloeran | So qazwsx, you are a programmer right? :) I don't think a typical engineer ( or worse, an artist ) could be able to appreciate mged so quickly |
| 02:06.02 | qazwsx | yeah, I'm a programmer :-) |
| 02:06.12 | qazwsx | working through the mged tutorial right now |
| 02:06.22 | qazwsx | It's amazingly well designed for something started 20 years ago? |
| 02:06.34 | qazwsx | for the longest time, I didn't touch the project since I was like it was started 20 years ago, it must be a pos |
| 02:06.39 | louipc | 27-28? |
| 02:06.51 | brlcad | depends when you start counting |
| 02:07.34 | brlcad | musing and ideas started spinning around '79, first geometry editing was '83, first "public" release was '84 |
| 02:07.52 | Maloeran | Well qazwsx, the fact that it begun 27 years ago shouldn't imply that it has remained inactive for the following 25 years |
| 02:08.12 | louipc | I think I played with brlcad maybe 3 yrs ago. I couldn't use the back-space key in mged I think haha |
| 02:08.14 | brlcad | pretty constant development rate |
| 02:08.29 | brlcad | louipc: on windows? |
| 02:08.33 | qazwsx | is this mged prompt that I'm typing into running tcl? |
| 02:08.40 | brlcad | qazwsx: yes |
| 02:08.42 | qazwsx | (i.e. all the "make, in, draw, ls, erase" commands) |
| 02:09.38 | brlcad | there's a whole slew of commands added to the tcl environment ("everything in tcl is a command") that relate to geometry editing and other actions |
| 02:09.53 | brlcad | the mged quick reference on the main page categorizes most of the more important ones |
| 02:10.27 | louipc | brlcad: I think it was in linux |
| 02:10.45 | louipc | oh no it was the delete key :D |
| 02:10.53 | louipc | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20050706.html.gz |
| 02:12.07 | brlcad | qazwsx: if you get to the point of writing tcl scripts in mged, you'll have to be aware of the 'set glob_compat_mode' setting, if it's on (which it is by default), then the command interpreter performs globbing on geometry object names and you have to escape the globbing characters that mean something different to tcl |
| 02:13.26 | brlcad | e.g. by default you can do "ls *.r" and it'd display a listing of all objects named with a .r suffix -- this is obviously not tcl behavior; similarly with more complex globbing like obj_[0-9]*.s etc .. yet [] mean something different to tcl |
| 02:13.53 | brlcad | so if you're going to write a tcl script, you probably want to turn glob compat mode off so you can do things like: set foo [tops] |
| 02:14.33 | brlcad | louipc: ah, delete, yeah - i'd believe that. I think I fixed that shortly after you reported it |
| 02:35.32 | qazwsx | so lesson 4 covers ray tracing ... this is me being picky; is there a way to launch these via commands? (rather than file -> ray trace -> raytrace ?) |
| 03:04.39 | qazwsx | how do I do the equiv of edit -> setH from the commandline in mged? |
| 03:04.42 | qazwsx | I'm looking at set |
| 03:04.47 | qazwsx | err, "sed" nad "p", but none of them appear to work |
| 03:14.02 | brlcad | "yes, 'rt -F/dev/Xl'" whenever he gets back |
| 03:47.34 | *** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) | |
| 03:54.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: search the blt dir for headers, needed for archer paths |
| 03:54.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: search the archer paths for blt and the archer tclscripts |
| 03:56.03 | brlcad | qazwsx: yes, run 'rt -F/dev/Xl' (man rt or brlman rt (set your MANPATH) for lots of other ray-trace options) |
| 04:02.50 | brlcad | to do the equiv of edit->Set H you can either run "press "Set H", or turn on the Misc->Faceplate GUI, or run 'ted' to kick off a text editor (be sure EDITOR env var is set) on the params |
| 04:03.40 | brlcad | if you've just run 'in' or 'make' commands, you can 'kill objectname' then up arrow and simply recreate |
| 04:04.26 | brlcad | the 'p' command lets you set the various values for the various edit options |
| 04:22.48 | qazwsx | wtf, I can simulate clicking on menus? |
| 04:23.07 | qazwsx | and "rt" is just calling the "rt" program on my shell? |
| 04:23.27 | louipc | cli rules |
| 04:26.01 | brlcad | yep, rt, rtedge, rtarea, ... etc there are various tracers for different needs |
| 04:27.06 | brlcad | you can ray-trace into the 3D graphics window using the cli, but it's a little more involved as that integrated framebuffer can be/is turned on/off on demand |
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| 08:38.24 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: with the newly installed brlcad 7.10.3 even the problem with "rt" not drawing anything has disappeared! |
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| 12:44.06 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 14:52.44 | ``Erik | src/mged/animedit.c:3059: Internal compiler error in `gen_tagged_type_instantiation_die', at dwarf2out.c:9308 |
| 14:53.42 | *** join/#brlcad ALVAN (n=jhkjhkj@89.34.187.225) | |
| 14:53.48 | ALVAN | hi all |
| 14:54.09 | ALVAN | someone knows a good application like autocad but for linux ? |
| 14:55.24 | Z80-Boy | qcad |
| 14:56.21 | ALVAN | Z80-Boy, does it supports now 3D ? |
| 14:56.33 | ALVAN | as i heard is only works with 2D |
| 14:56.54 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 14:56.57 | Z80-Boy | only 2d |
| 14:57.48 | ALVAN | do you know another :)? |
| 14:57.52 | ALVAN | that is 3D ? |
| 15:00.11 | ``Erik | what are you trying to do with it? |
| 15:00.22 | ``Erik | autocad is a drafting tool, so 2d is kinda, y'know.. .the point... |
| 15:00.46 | ``Erik | http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png <-- shows the breadth of what people can mean when they say "cad" |
| 15:02.03 | ALVAN | i want to make graphs of houses, more like for mantions |
| 15:02.35 | ``Erik | 'graphs'? I don't get what exactly you mean |
| 15:02.36 | ALVAN | are not for normally houses ..are for high standard houses |
| 15:03.23 | ``Erik | like rendered pictures? |
| 15:04.18 | ALVAN | i better show you one |
| 15:04.22 | ALVAN | a sample |
| 15:04.37 | ``Erik | a picture is worth a thousand and twenty four words |
| 15:07.26 | ALVAN | Erik http://www.proiectare.net/2006/03/27/vila-tip-a/ |
| 15:07.59 | ALVAN | normally i think 2D is good for me too i do only the last 2 pictures |
| 15:08.00 | ``Erik | ah, then autocad would be bad, something like povray or perhaps, say, BRL-CAD would be well suited |
| 15:08.30 | ``Erik | the floor-plan images would be better done with something like qcad |
| 15:08.37 | ALVAN | currently i work with autocad |
| 15:08.40 | ``Erik | or a 2d drawing program like gimp |
| 15:08.49 | Z80-Boy | lol, 2D plans with a gimp |
| 15:09.46 | ALVAN | ok thanks i will try qcad as i receive many projects written in autocad and i can convert fine |
| 15:09.49 | Z80-Boy | ALVAN: I guess you stay with Autocad - no way how to generate 2D in Qcad and 3D in BRL-CAD from the same source |
| 15:10.35 | Z80-Boy | ALVAN: took me 3 days to make a simple 6-edges plate in BRL-CAD for which I had a blueprint in qcad |
| 15:11.20 | ALVAN | hm ok |
| 15:11.35 | Z80-Boy | ALVAN: I had to do it by calculating sinuses and cosinuses manually and typing them into commandline |
| 15:11.50 | Z80-Boy | .oO(Advanced Information Technology) |
| 15:12.00 | ALVAN | Z80-Boy, manually there is bc for that :) you need only a script |
| 15:12.10 | Z80-Boy | ALVAN: I did in bc |
| 15:12.37 | ALVAN | ok i presume there is more then only calculations |
| 15:12.58 | Z80-Boy | ALVAN: you might however be able to make a thin slice through the house, render it with rtedge and then you would get a "floor plan" without the dimensions |
| 15:13.26 | Z80-Boy | ALVAN: in Autocad you can select if you want a 3D or 2D view? |
| 15:13.37 | ALVAN | yes you can |
| 15:13.42 | ALVAN | by default is 3D |
| 15:14.00 | ALVAN | or sometiems depedns of the image |
| 15:14.05 | Z80-Boy | in BRL-CAD, you can't even have dimensions... everything's blind |
| 15:14.27 | Z80-Boy | no way to align one object on another |
| 15:14.32 | ALVAN | i did not say i will try BRL-CAD .. icame here for an alternative |
| 15:14.38 | Z80-Boy | or to figure out a point where two things intersect |
| 15:14.42 | ALVAN | in waht i saw about it is more like for elctronics |
| 15:15.11 | Z80-Boy | electronics? |
| 15:15.45 | ALVAN | how electronics boards are made ..but i think i did not read all about it |
| 15:16.03 | ALVAN | i just was glad that i found a CAD related channel |
| 15:16.41 | ALVAN | i see it knows more then what i said :) |
| 15:19.05 | ALVAN | Z80-Boy, ok thanks |
| 15:19.38 | minute | back# |
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| 17:26.28 | *** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) | |
| 17:28.41 | qazwsx | here's the latest weird hack I'm trying to do with brlcad -- when I use mged, I'd like to be able to send commands / get results back from mged via a unix pipe ... or a unix msg queue ... I'm not sure where to jump in / start hacking; anyone have pointers? |
| 17:29.16 | ``Erik | mged -c blah.g < script |
| 17:30.29 | qazwsx | this is cool, but isn't interactive right? |
| 17:30.33 | qazwsx | perfecably, I want something like |
| 17:30.39 | qazwsx | mged -c blah.g &; then in another window, I go |
| 17:30.50 | qazwsx | mg-run "in blah.s rcc ..... " |
| 17:30.54 | qazwsx | or mg-run "ls" |
| 17:31.03 | qazwsx | and it sends it over to mged; then prints the results back to stdout to me |
| 17:31.28 | ``Erik | well, -c (classic mode) is interactive and uses stdin/stdout instead of the tcl/t window |
| 17:32.17 | ``Erik | like any interactive stdin/stdout type program, you can attach a stream other than stdin to feed it input, like a pipe or file handle... |
| 17:32.28 | ``Erik | for shits and giggles, try it out :) |
| 17:34.38 | qazwsx | oh wow, cool; thanks, I didn't realize -c meant classic mode, which meant stdin/stdout |
| 17:35.13 | ``Erik | :) I tend to use that mode a lot when writing code and testing... gui stuff is a pain |
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| 18:04.19 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I have one problem with mged. I wanted to save the configuration file so I did File -> Create/Update .mgedrc and it said an error message I don't remember what |
| 18:04.35 | Z80-Boy | Now the setup is completely screwed, multipane is away, axes are away. |
| 18:05.13 | Z80-Boy | When I set it back and do File -> Create/Update .mgedrc I get an error message Error: can't read "mged default(overstrike_font)":... |
| 18:05.24 | Z80-Boy | [OK] [Skip Messages] [Details>>] |
| 18:06.29 | Z80-Boy | mged on startup also prints: "Error reading .mgedrc: can't read "mged_default(zbuffer)": no such element in array while executing "set mged_default(zbuffer) " (file "/home/clock/.mgedrc" line 92)" |
| 18:07.21 | qazwsx | if you mv ~/.mgedrc to ~/.old-mgedrc and rerun mged, will it create a new one for you? |
| 18:07.41 | Z80-Boy | Yes |
| 18:07.45 | Z80-Boy | then I can save multipane |
| 18:07.59 | qazwsx | okay, does this solve your problem? |
| 18:08.20 | Z80-Boy | but during saving the mgedrc I still get an error message Error: can't read "mged_default(overstrike_font)":... |
| 18:08.24 | Z80-Boy | Yes. |
| 18:08.34 | Z80-Boy | But there's still an error message every time I save the .mgedrc |
| 18:09.21 | qazwsx | okay, so if you start wiht a fresh .mgedrc, and save multipane, then when u restart mgedrc, you get an error? |
| 18:10.57 | Z80-Boy | It solves only half of the problem now I see |
| 18:11.22 | Z80-Boy | I can save multipane but when I set up axes in all 4 windows and then do save exit start mged the axes are not there |
| 18:13.46 | Z80-Boy | So the problem is now, how do I make the axes stay over a mged restart? |
| 18:14.52 | Z80-Boy | Delete mged, setup everything at once, save, and pray that I won't need to change anything anymore in the future? |
| 18:15.02 | Z80-Boy | mged -> .mgedrc |
| 18:16.12 | qazwsx | sorry, don't know; I started using brlcad about 24 hrs ago :-/ |
| 18:34.36 | Z80-Boy | I tried to wipe .mgedrc, then set up panes and axes at once, then save, quit, restart mged. |
| 18:34.47 | Z80-Boy | Doesn't work - only panes are saved, axes are not present. |
| 18:38.45 | qazwsx | this is a really really really dumb hack |
| 18:38.56 | qazwsx | but according to man mged you can run a command on startup |
| 18:39.04 | qazwsx | maybe u can set it up so that this one command sets up everything u need |
| 18:52.57 | Z80-Boy | lol |
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| 21:45.10 | brlcad | ``Erik: was that internal error from mipspro? |
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| 21:47.15 | Z80-Boy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g <- vector oscilloscope demo |
| 21:47.53 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: my mged cannot save configuration properly |
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| 21:49.19 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: hm, that might be something new since you're working on head |
| 21:49.35 | brlcad | i'll have to give that a try myself -- zbuffer was recently "disabled by default" |
| 21:50.07 | brlcad | that disabling might have introduced some other problem |
| 22:06.27 | ``Erik | brlcad: gcc, with -O3 on, um, animedit.c or something in mged |
| 22:42.27 | starseeker | brlcad: Did you want to use the "book" style for the BRL-CAD manuals? |
| 23:12.08 | ``Erik | in theory, any style should be trivial to slap on once the doc is all marked up... no? |
| 23:25.04 | starseeker | in theory, yes |
| 23:25.36 | starseeker | docbook isn't like anything else I've run into thus far, not even TeX - EVERYTHING gets it's own "label" identifying what it is. |
| 23:25.58 | starseeker | so you have to know what labels are available |
| 23:26.10 | starseeker | fortunately, the docbook site is good for that once you get started |
| 23:26.21 | starseeker | I've begun working on volume two now |
| 23:31.00 | louipc | ?? you'e |
| 23:31.08 | louipc | you're doing it manually? |
| 23:34.11 | starseeker | yep |
| 23:34.18 | starseeker | that's the only way |
| 23:34.53 | starseeker | Neither the pdf nor the word document have the correct starting information to provide a converter with the "correct" info to make a good docbook document |
| 23:35.00 | louipc | ouch |
| 23:35.04 | starseeker | you'll see when I can post an example |
| 23:35.37 | starseeker | In some sense, docbook create's a "meta" document - no formatting, but LOTS of info about what each component IS |
| 23:35.51 | starseeker | for example, an address is composed of components, each of which has its own tag |
| 23:36.55 | louipc | so it all comes down to manual marking up dang |
| 23:47.29 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:47.50 | ``Erik | tex likes to label most things, too... the big difference from the jade style docbook I've dorked with (fbsd docs) |
| 23:47.57 | ``Erik | is the <p> tag for paragraphs |
| 23:48.34 | ``Erik | and tex tends to have more header info, since both the style and content exist in the same file tree |
| 23:48.59 | ``Erik | or was it <para> |
| 23:50.56 | ``Erik | <para> heh... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=docs/35140 |
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| 00:08.40 | qazwsx | given that I have a region/combination ... is there a way for me to tell brlcad to give me a watertight mesh? |
| 00:08.46 | qazwsx | (this I assume is probably C interface land) |
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| 00:35.02 | ``Erik | hum |
| 00:49.56 | starseeker | it's doable, but will take time and patience |
| 00:52.19 | louipc | what are you doing just adding the right tags here and there? |
| 00:58.37 | Maloeran | Could anyone possibly know what could cause ftp transfer speed to slowly yet continuously drop on LAN transfers? I never figured that out |
| 00:59.09 | Maloeran | It starts at 12mb/sec, and is now at 2mb/sec after just a hour, still falling |
| 00:59.22 | starseeker | louipc: Pretty much |
| 01:00.02 | starseeker | Once I get through vol2, I'll send it to brlcad, and if he OKs it I'll post it to the list for comment |
| 01:00.17 | louipc | starseeker: ah ok. I'd try to rig up vim/emacs for hyper speed tag insertion |
| 01:00.33 | louipc | cool |
| 01:00.49 | starseeker | louipc: That's probably a good idea, but it will come after I've got a good sense of what to insert |
| 01:00.58 | louipc | yeah |
| 01:01.04 | starseeker | right now I'm working with the docbook site on one desktop and the document on another |
| 01:01.14 | starseeker | and the pdf in the third to put the text in context |
| 01:05.10 | brlcad | starseeker: there are a few docbook structures that would be well suited -- i'm not sure which is really best at this point, treating them as books, or collections of books, or collections of articles, etc .. there are various tradeoffs |
| 01:05.30 | starseeker | brlcad: For the moment, I'm going with book |
| 01:05.43 | brlcad | probably a book for starters, if the "chapters" are each stashed out into their own file(s) then it's a lot easier to change it later |
| 01:05.52 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 01:06.14 | starseeker | I'll probably start doing it in one file, then go back and separate it out later |
| 01:06.42 | brlcad | using xml docbook and xpath, it's fairly straightforward to get sort of #include semantics -- otherwise you have to list things a few times (which isn't too horrible either) |
| 01:07.02 | brlcad | yeah, just *having* it in docbook format is a starter |
| 01:07.23 | brlcad | then it can be reorganized, updated, make stylesheets for various new formats, etc |
| 01:07.37 | starseeker | book looks like a decent match so far. |
| 01:07.55 | starseeker | when do you want me to send you an example of what I'm doing? after I finish one of the volumes? |
| 01:07.56 | brlcad | go for it |
| 01:08.20 | brlcad | erm, if you have an sf.net account, you can just work directly in cvs |
| 01:08.30 | starseeker | Oh, OK. |
| 01:08.34 | brlcad | then it'll be pretty obvious :) |
| 01:08.35 | starseeker | I'm starseeker on sf, IIRC |
| 01:09.00 | starseeker | Didn't know if you wanted me mucking around in cvs yet ;-) |
| 01:09.17 | brlcad | it's cool |
| 01:09.59 | brlcad | so long as the rate is low enough that I can review every commit (which I do), I'm pretty open to just letting new folks get involved |
| 01:10.07 | starseeker | If I start now, it will basically be starting from the wvText output and gradually becoming actual xml |
| 01:10.09 | starseeker | cool :-) |
| 01:10.20 | brlcad | should read HACKING file in the top-level, has some basic guidelines |
| 01:10.32 | starseeker | OK |
| 01:10.41 | brlcad | like don't break code if you do go editing code, or do your best to not break the build even when adding new files, etc |
| 01:11.18 | starseeker | right. Since I won't be touching code yet that's OK, and the build can't be set up for the docs until the docs are processable ;-) |
| 01:11.56 | brlcad | yep |
| 01:11.59 | starseeker | I take it the build will ignore files in doc it doesn't recognize? |
| 01:12.15 | brlcad | and even once they are added, they'll probably be "opt-in" via some --enable-docs option at first |
| 01:12.34 | starseeker | Right. Particularly if we rely on the external system to have a working docbook chain |
| 01:12.38 | starseeker | that's quite an assumption |
| 01:12.46 | brlcad | yeah, that's a slew of configure checks |
| 01:13.17 | brlcad | you're added |
| 01:13.28 | brlcad | presume you know how to checkout/use cvs? |
| 01:13.53 | starseeker | Yep :-) |
| 01:13.55 | starseeker | thanks! |
| 01:14.08 | starseeker | where do you want me working? subdirectory in doc? |
| 01:14.21 | brlcad | yeah, that's probably the place for now |
| 01:15.00 | brlcad | doc/book perhaps :) |
| 01:15.06 | starseeker | :-) |
| 01:15.37 | starseeker | it would probably be better to have doc/book/vol2 - there will be a fair number of images involved by the end |
| 01:17.30 | brlcad | hm, I was kind of hoping to get away from the "volumes" |
| 01:17.38 | brlcad | they don't exactly make sense |
| 01:17.48 | starseeker | Oh. OK, that's not a problem |
| 01:18.17 | starseeker | How were you thinking to structure it? It's probably easier to set that up from the get-go |
| 01:18.53 | starseeker | a "book.xml" file with chapters in their own files? |
| 01:19.15 | brlcad | vol II is basically a bunch of tutorials that build on each other, plus a big command index, plus an 'article' on primitives, plus some other stuff; vol I and vol III are primarily informational though III also has more (moderately advanced) tutorials; IV tells you how to convert stuff ... |
| 01:19.34 | brlcad | there's very little consistency imo to those groupings and a lot of crossover |
| 01:20.07 | brlcad | sure, that works .. your call since you're the one doing the work :) |
| 01:20.37 | starseeker | OK. If you like, we can adopt the convention of the "book.xml" file being the control file and putting individual "tutorials"/articles/etc in their own files. My main concern is not to pollute with a bunch of files that will eventually need to vanish, since that's a pain in cvs... |
| 01:20.42 | brlcad | i'll whine if I see something I really don't like :) |
| 01:20.45 | starseeker | hehe |
| 01:21.13 | brlcad | don't worry about cvs .. it is afterall going to be gone by end of year :) |
| 01:21.44 | starseeker | True :-) |
| 01:23.27 | starseeker | OK, I guess I'll go ahead and put my current "working" file up there. Even if it is eventually chopped up into other files, at least the markup will be preserved in cvs |
| 01:24.10 | brlcad | yeah, don't be afraid to commit as much as you like, can rarely ever commit too early or too frequently :) |
| 01:24.24 | starseeker | :-) |
| 01:34.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: |
| 01:34.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: This is the initial text only translation of the original source |
| 01:34.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: document of the BRL-CAD Tutorial Series Volume II - Introduction to MGED. |
| 01:34.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Despite the extension, it is not a DocBook XML document in its current |
| 01:34.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: form - it is commited in this state only to record the starting point |
| 01:34.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: for the conversion to XML. |
| 01:35.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Translation was done from Word using wvText from wv-1.2.3 |
| 01:36.42 | ``Erik | wow, a commit bit already |
| 01:36.50 | ``Erik | now, I have to ask |
| 01:36.53 | ``Erik | is it xml, or sgml? |
| 01:36.58 | starseeker | It will be xml |
| 01:37.18 | starseeker | That's supposedly the "wave of the future" for docbook |
| 01:37.26 | starseeker | apparently sgml was a bit too complicated |
| 01:38.12 | starseeker | Hang on - in a few minutes I'll commit what I've got marked up so far |
| 01:45.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Beginnings of Docbook XML markup. |
| 01:46.35 | starseeker | I'm not sure if we want the PUBLIC tag or if we want to store our own copy - it will depend on the requirements of the toolchain |
| 01:50.38 | starseeker | OK, at least it's a start. Bedtime for me. Thanks brlcad! |
| 01:51.12 | brlcad | thank you! |
| 01:51.16 | brlcad | it is a start |
| 01:51.28 | brlcad | that's the best progress to date ;) |
| 01:51.35 | starseeker | really? eeep. |
| 01:51.57 | brlcad | well, you'd see docbook files lying around had others gotten further |
| 01:52.07 | starseeker | point |
| 01:52.16 | brlcad | I've set this same up for other projects, but just not for cad .. |
| 01:53.13 | starseeker | I think the BRL-CAD files will actually map rather well to this, based on progress so far. |
| 01:53.47 | starseeker | It looks like whoever wrote the original word files was using the same conventions that Docbook modeled off of |
| 01:53.55 | starseeker | (caution, information, etc.) |
| 01:55.50 | brlcad | at this point, shouldn't matter |
| 01:55.58 | starseeker | Cool. |
| 02:09.07 | starseeker | brlcad: Do we want to keep using the screenshots in the original documents or are updated ones in order? |
| 02:15.14 | brlcad | updated ones are in order for some of them, particularly the menu shotw |
| 02:16.41 | starseeker | OK. I can only take them on Linux though - is that OK or do we want Windows shots? |
| 02:18.46 | brlcad | it should be fine |
| 02:18.50 | starseeker | Cool :-) |
| 02:19.02 | brlcad | they were originally taken on linux anyways |
| 02:19.17 | starseeker | Ah :-). |
| 02:20.02 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:20.41 | brlcad | windows gets by far the most downloads, but most of the users (at least that I interact with) are on linux and mac os x |
| 02:21.44 | starseeker | Maxima was like that too, IIRC. |
| 02:22.25 | brlcad | just shows how much a demand there is in the open source realm.. and how much better we need to be doing on usability |
| 02:22.43 | starseeker | I was somewhat surprised to see SALOME had another release |
| 02:23.06 | starseeker | I wish I knew what they were good at but building the sucker is a nightmare |
| 02:24.07 | starseeker | brlcad: Do you think the UI will stay with TCL/TK for the foreseeable future? (just curious) |
| 02:24.11 | louipc | bah windows users just don't get it |
| 02:26.15 | starseeker | louipc: They have an expectation of everything being GUI, that's for sure... |
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| 02:26.44 | louipc | hehe yeah that's for sure. |
| 02:26.44 | starseeker | To be fair about it though, most open source stuff doesn't present a good front on Windows - it's a real challenge |
| 02:27.38 | starseeker | For almost every Maxima release getting it working on Windows was the major stumbling block. |
| 02:28.16 | starseeker | mingw is an adventure... |
| 02:28.19 | louipc | yeah windows doesn't provide a good environment |
| 02:28.42 | starseeker | Does BRL-CAD build using mingw and friends or more normal tools? |
| 02:28.48 | louipc | hehe I love mingw, I can kind of pretend I'm not in windows anymore |
| 02:29.02 | louipc | starseeker: there was a guy doing builds in cygwin |
| 02:29.07 | starseeker | ouch |
| 02:29.38 | starseeker | Cygwin is great if you want to turn Windows into a pseudo-Unix box, but for distributing binaries it has a lot of overhead... |
| 02:29.41 | louipc | I think there's an intent to build it in mingw if it hasn't been achieved already |
| 02:30.53 | starseeker | the build instructions had to specify specific versions of each component, and if you were forced to use newer ones it was a whole new problem... |
| 02:31.14 | starseeker | Of course, that was back when Win98 still had to be taken into account... |
| 02:31.32 | louipc | yeah win98 caused issues |
| 02:32.06 | starseeker | oops |
| 02:32.07 | louipc | I built tcl/tk in mingw! |
| 02:32.16 | louipc | in win98! |
| 02:32.18 | starseeker | tcl/tk is great for portability |
| 02:32.27 | starseeker | it just feels funny ;-) |
| 02:32.56 | starseeker | Actually, the most useful free Lisp graphical binding currently is to TK... |
| 02:33.03 | starseeker | good stuff |
| 02:33.34 | louipc | yeah there's a bunch of good things like that |
| 02:34.44 | Maloeran | From what I heard, tcl/tk is very lacking in widgets and flexibility |
| 02:35.11 | Maloeran | Although I haven't personally used it, I heard from people who needed to write extra widgets constantly |
| 02:35.25 | louipc | how about +itcl, itk, iwidgets ? |
| 02:36.33 | Maloeran | Haven't tried them, I'm not much into GUIs... |
| 02:36.51 | Maloeran | gtk2 is quite nice though |
| 02:41.59 | louipc | that's quite a flip-flop eh? |
| 02:42.08 | starseeker | Hehe |
| 02:42.34 | louipc | sounds kind of like how I'd do things :P I have trouble programming from scratch because I've little experience |
| 02:42.42 | starseeker | I was going to ask if Paraview would be a logical starting point for interface/visualization code to hook up to BRL-CAD, but I see the latest version has now moved to QT |
| 02:44.06 | starseeker | Well, 2.6 still used tcl/tk |
| 02:44.07 | starseeker | thought so |
| 02:44.31 | louipc | neat ARL contributed to it |
| 02:44.36 | starseeker | :-) |
| 02:44.58 | louipc | or "contrinuted" to it |
| 02:47.16 | louipc | looks like it's client/server. just the latest client is in QT |
| 02:47.37 | starseeker | QT4 + VTK ~= drool ;-) |
| 02:48.23 | louipc | haha it has 6 different licenses? |
| 02:49.18 | starseeker | they're using a lot of libs ;-) |
| 02:49.51 | starseeker | They must bundle like BRL-CAD does. |
| 02:50.05 | starseeker | In fact, that explains what the ebuild guys where talking about with external libs |
| 02:53.33 | starseeker | Is it considered "bad taste" to discuss GUI questions? |
| 02:53.46 | louipc | I don't think so |
| 02:54.50 | louipc | indeed |
| 02:55.47 | starseeker | VTK definitely rules the roost for "looks" in the open source candidates I've seen, but I don't know how well it would do for interactive CAD type scenarios |
| 02:56.17 | starseeker | LOL - yep, Paraview is building it's own copy of VTK |
| 02:56.49 | starseeker | at least they seem to be willing to try to use the system QT4... |
| 02:57.49 | starseeker | Well, later all! |
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| 03:16.16 | brlcad | louipc: I've built everything under mingw in the past, only required a few minor edits at the time |
| 03:17.44 | brlcad | starseeker: TBD really, MGED won't likely drop Tk anytime soon .. but a new modeling interface could certainly use something different |
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| 05:48.18 | Z80-Boy | what's the command to turn *model* axes on in all four panes? I could try to put it into the .mgedrc manually |
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| 15:32.58 | Maloeran | Urgh, one USD is now worth less than one CAD. Just five years ago, 1CAD was worth 0.62USD |
| 15:34.53 | minute | CAD |
| 15:34.54 | minute | ? |
| 15:36.24 | Z80-Boy | paid in BRL-CADs |
| 15:57.04 | minute | ? |
| 15:59.51 | Maloeran | Canadian Dollars |
| 16:04.05 | minute | oh, cool |
| 16:04.19 | minute | or not as the case may be |
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| 16:30.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:27.56 | qazwsx | does brlcad generate meshes of the parts before rendering, or does it just render it directly? (i.e. I'm hoping to use brlcad as a csg library and do my rendering in opengl with the meshes) |
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| 20:32.39 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: would it be possible to model a water wave, like the surfer's dream tube, in brl-cad and then render it with Sun? |
| 20:33.15 | Z80-Boy | What primitive would be suitable to render irregularly wrinkled, twisted surface? |
| 20:33.33 | Z80-Boy | That can't be done with extrusion since it's curled up. |
| 20:37.13 | Z80-Boy | dsp? |
| 21:13.02 | yukonbob | dsp alone won't have a "curl" where there are two different levels of water (ie: water level, and curling crest of wave above it at same Z axis) |
| 21:13.58 | yukonbob | s/same Z axis/ on Z axis at same X,Y/ |
| 21:35.45 | Z80-Boy | dsp takes some file but the format is mystery |
| 21:35.54 | Z80-Boy | seems it's neither binary file nor a text file |
| 21:36.03 | Z80-Boy | tried both and neither worked |
| 21:40.52 | poolio | brlcad: heard of randy pausch? |
| 21:42.31 | yukonbob | Z80-Boy: it's a matrix of unsigned 16-bit ints. |
| 21:43.32 | Z80-Boy | can the file be longer than needed? |
| 21:51.24 | Z80-Boy | it works, cool |
| 21:51.32 | Z80-Boy | needs just exact size |
| 21:51.35 | Z80-Boy | width*height*2 |
| 21:52.37 | yukonbob | "*2" == file byte size, but ea. datum is the 16bit (2byte) int value. |
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| 23:10.34 | qazwsx | is thre a way to export modesl out of brlcad as meshes? |
| 23:16.02 | ``Erik | sorta, yes |
| 23:16.05 | qazwsx | great |
| 23:16.10 | qazwsx | tell me the direction please |
| 23:16.12 | ``Erik | but it can be a very slow process, O(n^3) |
| 23:16.17 | qazwsx | that is fine, no need to be real time |
| 23:16.30 | qazwsx | how does this work? which prog? |
| 23:16.30 | ``Erik | the NMG routines convert, um, look at things liek g-stl and those |
| 23:17.11 | ``Erik | g-nmg is also one to look at |
| 23:18.05 | qazwsx | yeah, that looked alot more useful than stereo :-) |
| 23:18.58 | ``Erik | um, stl is a simple triangle mesh format |
| 23:20.08 | qazwsx | sorry, what's a "NMG" ? |
| 23:20.32 | ``Erik | n-manifold geometry |
| 23:20.48 | qazwsx | okay, I'm an idiot |
| 23:20.50 | qazwsx | g-stl is what I want |
| 23:20.52 | ``Erik | you'd probably be more interested in BOTs |
| 23:20.55 | ``Erik | bag of triangle |
| 23:20.57 | qazwsx | thanks, the whole stereo thing threw me off |
| 23:21.09 | qazwsx | -b gave me a binary file |
| 23:21.11 | ``Erik | *shrug* it does sound odd... and n/p :) |
| 23:21.33 | qazwsx | wait, sorry, what does BOT offer me over stero's list of triangles? |
| 23:21.38 | qazwsx | I'm greedy, and want the best solution :-) |
| 23:24.50 | ``Erik | nothing? both are sets of triangles, just in a slightly different output format |
| 23:25.30 | qazwsx | okay, just checking |
| 23:26.09 | qazwsx | please forgive me newbiness: can you tell me which one of the 400+ cmd line utilities will let me query about a *.g database file like I can in mged? stuff like "ls blah.g" or |
| 23:26.12 | qazwsx | l blah.s |
| 23:35.57 | ``Erik | mged.... |
| 23:36.05 | ``Erik | mged -c blah.g tops |
| 23:36.08 | ``Erik | mged -c blah.g l blah.s |
| 23:37.15 | qazwsx | toh, I can specify a single command oh right |
| 23:37.16 | qazwsx | thanks :-) |
| 00:19.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup complete through Lesson 1. |
| 00:22.14 | starseeker | <author>starseeker</author><speaking voice="mutter">is going to be dreaming of markup</speaking><emoticon>;-)</emoticon> |
| 00:25.17 | louipc | <slang type="internet">LOL</slang> ? |
| 00:27.09 | starseeker | It was OK until I looked at how far I had to go ;-) |
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| 09:18.39 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you said it's possible to make a cartoon-style pen drawing rendering by overlaying rt and rtedge output by <i_forgot_the_name> command. |
| 09:19.00 | Z80-Boy | But that means calculating twice as long. Is it possible that the output be generated only by a single calculation? |
| 09:25.48 | Maloeran | I wouldn't have expected rtedge to take as long as the raytrace |
| 09:26.09 | Z80-Boy | good |
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| 11:56.56 | Maloeran | Does anyone know the origin of this famous picture/video where a man walks in front of a column of tanks and manage to stop it during a military parade? |
| 11:57.06 | Maloeran | Or any other information that might be relevant |
| 12:03.55 | brlcad | eh, that was the infamous Tiananmen Square protest |
| 12:03.59 | brlcad | back in 1989 |
| 12:05.10 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: pixmatte or pixmerge |
| 12:07.46 | Maloeran | Right I got it, thanks |
| 12:10.53 | Maloeran | Seems hard to order a print of this picture in order to frame it |
| 12:17.00 | brlcad | probably because it's copyrighted :) |
| 12:17.05 | brlcad | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4727787930108202470 |
| 12:17.48 | Maloeran | Well sure, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to pay for it :) |
| 12:20.45 | Maloeran | I guess I'll have to find something else |
| 12:22.53 | brlcad | http://cgi.ebay.com/TIANANMEN-SQUARE-TANKS-CHINA-TANK-MAN-24x34-POSTER_W0QQitemZ190154453851QQcmdZViewItem |
| 12:23.52 | Maloeran | Oh :), looks like I wasn't looking at the right place |
| 12:24.36 | brlcad | http://www.popartuk.com/photography/the-unknown-rebel-pp0893-poster.asp |
| 12:25.31 | brlcad | maybe just what you're searching on, he is known as "tank man" |
| 12:25.38 | Maloeran | I happen to really wonder how I had my keywords wrong |
| 12:25.45 | Maloeran | I tried that too |
| 12:29.55 | Maloeran | Thanks brlcad, I'm getting it shipped |
| 12:31.17 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: could you please advise on the problem I have with saving the config file? |
| 12:45.30 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: I did, day before yesterday.. probabaly a recently introduced problem (like as of last week) |
| 12:45.59 | brlcad | remember that you're working off of head now, you've got the latest .. and I think that problem seems related from what you said it was complaining about (z clipping) |
| 12:46.20 | brlcad | test would be to revert the zclipping change and see if that makes a difference |
| 12:46.45 | brlcad | i'll have to dig through the changelog to see what exactly that change was |
| 12:52.57 | Z80-Boy | Do you think the videos would look better if rtedge-style contours were overlaid over the picture? |
| 13:09.08 | ``Erik | ('cept with tank dude, he was drug into the crowds by onlookers and thousands of people died in chinas response to a peaceful hunger strike) |
| 13:20.07 | ``Erik | z80: there are a few options, I don't think you'd like any of 'em... 1) raytrace both the image and the rtedge copy and merge 'em 2) raytrace the image and pass the output through a sorbel filter (like in imagemagick or gimp) and compose them, 3) write a new shader that does it for ya |
| 13:20.50 | ``Erik | cell shader might be a fun project *scratches chin* |
| 14:04.58 | Z80-Boy | I have set compile flags CFLAGS to -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe |
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| 14:05.12 | Z80-Boy | Does it take effect during brl-cad compilation or does BRL-CAD set it's own optimizer flags? |
| 14:05.22 | Z80-Boy | I have a feeling that the rendering is very slow |
| 14:08.04 | Z80-Boy | Is there a man rt? |
| 14:09.04 | ``Erik | yes |
| 14:09.12 | ``Erik | there is a manpage |
| 14:09.16 | Z80-Boy | man rt, brlman rt - nothing |
| 14:09.37 | ``Erik | and um, unless you do --enable-optimized, CFLAGS will be respected |
| 14:09.57 | ``Erik | actually, CFLAGS will still be repected, but enable-optimized glues most stuff to it like -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer ... |
| 14:10.07 | ``Erik | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man rt |
| 14:10.26 | ``Erik | erm, that's bourne style, uh, I dunno how to do it in csh |
| 14:10.27 | Z80-Boy | so there are already 3 different methods to get a manpage |
| 14:10.33 | ``Erik | well |
| 14:10.40 | ``Erik | man searches $MANPATH |
| 14:10.55 | ``Erik | so adding /usr/brlcad/share/man to the MANPATH is how to make normal man work |
| 14:11.07 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't use brlman, which I THINK just adds to MANPATH and calls man |
| 14:12.41 | Z80-Boy | When I add /usr/brlcad/share/man to /etc/man.conf, it still doesn't work |
| 14:12.49 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: is there a faster rt? |
| 14:12.59 | ``Erik | indeed, brlman is a simple shell script, heh |
| 14:13.03 | Z80-Boy | does it use linked lists to search for the primitives? |
| 14:13.05 | Maloeran | Well, mine's quite fast but it's not integrated into BRL-CAD |
| 14:13.05 | ``Erik | that adds stuff to MANPATH |
| 14:13.27 | ``Erik | yours doesn't do the large set of implicite primitives nor csg operations, mal... :) |
| 14:13.40 | Maloeran | Pft, long live triangles! :) |
| 14:13.47 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 14:14.04 | Maloeran | 50-100fps on raytracing is still amusing |
| 14:14.09 | ``Erik | ok, lets model a sphere and see who gets more accurate results and a smaller data file :) |
| 14:14.11 | Z80-Boy | You cannot make a cylinder, torus, sphere, ellipsoid, paraboloid or cone from triangles no matter how many triangles you use. |
| 14:15.00 | Maloeran | You can get close enough so that the fact that triangles are used has no impact on the rendering |
| 14:15.10 | Maloeran | You would still use CSG, just convert to triangles for rendering |
| 14:15.11 | ``Erik | oh, and lets talk engineering precision, not visual precision, we can talk about accepting 10 micrometers of error on a motor vehicle sized thing :) |
| 14:15.31 | ``Erik | because, y'know, we want it for engineering purposes, not just pretty pictures |
| 14:16.14 | Maloeran | I never really got into the weird curved triangle surfaces I described long ago, it would have been nice for raytracing |
| 14:16.36 | Maloeran | Reasonably fast to intersect for rays, much more friendly to describe curved surfaces |
| 14:17.00 | Z80-Boy | for that I need to figure out the lights |
| 14:17.17 | Z80-Boy | and that means again finding out that everything I stumble upon is insufficiently documented to be able to work with |
| 14:17.32 | ``Erik | didja get the rt manpage up? |
| 14:17.36 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 14:17.42 | Z80-Boy | only with explicit prefix |
| 14:17.43 | ``Erik | where is brlcad installed to? |
| 14:17.47 | ``Erik | oh, so you did, heh |
| 14:17.50 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad |
| 14:18.04 | Z80-Boy | no I don't want to type half a line prefix every time I run man |
| 14:18.16 | Z80-Boy | everything in the system works on man, only BRL-CAD is a specialty |
| 14:18.23 | ``Erik | take a look at the brlman script, it SHOULD stay 'MANPATH="/usr/brlcad/man"' somewhere in it? |
| 14:18.30 | ``Erik | and, uh, you can set the environment variable |
| 14:18.46 | ``Erik | setenv MANPATH $MANPATH:/usr/brlcad/share/man # for csh |
| 14:18.53 | Maloeran | Ah, it's horrible. You must begin to find me annoying with that, but I'm still unable to focus, think and work, love has completely messed up my mind |
| 14:18.57 | Z80-Boy | but brlman rt doesn't work |
| 14:18.58 | ``Erik | export MANPATH=$MANPATH:/usr/brlcad/share/man # for sh |
| 14:19.31 | ``Erik | your brlman may be ... odd... did you move your install? it's a pretty simple shell script |
| 14:19.48 | ``Erik | mebbe you don't have awf? |
| 14:20.15 | ``Erik | oh, shoot, I brought my parallels cd back, so I can reinstall it and run obsd41 again, I'll try to take a look at it :D lemme go get it out of my car |
| 14:20.16 | Z80-Boy | wihcclock@kestrel:~$ awf |
| 14:20.16 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/bin/awf: must specify -ms or -man |
| 14:20.35 | ``Erik | um |
| 14:20.37 | Z80-Boy | the brlman script is somehow complicated inside |
| 14:20.51 | ``Erik | complicated? O.o |
| 14:20.57 | Z80-Boy | does it work on your OpenBSD? |
| 14:21.07 | Z80-Boy | it looks for |
| 14:21.12 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man |
| 14:21.12 | ``Erik | I dunno, it's a vm and I need to reinstall the vm software to start it |
| 14:21.15 | Z80-Boy | ${path_to_this}/../share/brlcad/7.10.3/man |
| 14:21.19 | Z80-Boy | ${path_to_this}/../man |
| 14:21.23 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man |
| 14:21.27 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/man |
| 14:21.42 | Z80-Boy | what's the point of having brlcad twice on the path? |
| 14:21.55 | ``Erik | and what does "find /usr/brlcad/ -name rt.1" tell you? |
| 14:22.10 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/share/man/man1/rt.1 |
| 14:22.21 | ``Erik | iiiinteresting |
| 14:22.28 | ``Erik | your brlman is broken, wonder how that happened |
| 14:22.34 | Z80-Boy | brlman rt mdoesn't do anything |
| 14:23.05 | Z80-Boy | I just downloaded 1.10.3 from CVS compiled installed |
| 14:23.15 | Z80-Boy | before that I deleted /usr/brlcad to make sure there isn't anything left over |
| 14:23.50 | Z80-Boy | What I don't understand is why man doesn't work when I add that directory to man.conf |
| 14:25.31 | ``Erik | <-- not sure, perhaps it's cached somewhere? do ya need to rebuild the whatis db or something? |
| 14:26.02 | Z80-Boy | man man.conf doesn't contain the word "rebuild" |
| 14:27.44 | Z80-Boy | Still doesn't work |
| 14:27.56 | ``Erik | interesting |
| 14:28.21 | ``Erik | is it read on login? if you ssh into your own box or hop down to a vc and do a fresh login, does it work? |
| 14:28.52 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~$ ssh clock@localhost |
| 14:28.52 | Z80-Boy | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |
| 14:28.52 | Z80-Boy | @ WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED! @ |
| 14:28.52 | Z80-Boy | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |
| 14:29.15 | Z80-Boy | The sole purpose of this message is to make sure people will ignore a man in the middle attack in the case it really happens |
| 14:29.24 | ``Erik | heh, regenerated sshd keys since you last logged into yourself, aapparently |
| 14:30.02 | Z80-Boy | if this happens I delete ~/.ssh/known_hosts and always enter "yes" without even looking at the fingerprint |
| 14:30.30 | Z80-Boy | If ssh was designed to be secure, they would make sure man in the middle attack is reported only when the key doesn't match and not every other day. |
| 14:30.45 | Z80-Boy | No, it doesn't work even through ssh. |
| 14:30.56 | ``Erik | what's "manpath" tell you? |
| 14:31.09 | Z80-Boy | bash: manpath: command not found |
| 14:31.33 | ``Erik | huh |
| 14:31.47 | ``Erik | <-- fbsd user, not obsd... :) |
| 14:33.10 | ``Erik | ffs, stupid fucking corporate image fucking bullshit... brb |
| 14:56.31 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 14:56.56 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: it probably would look better, usually does (rtedge overlay) |
| 14:57.43 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: any idea, why my "brlman rt" doesn't work, and why I cannot save the config file? |
| 14:57.56 | Z80-Boy | Can the CVS code be in an inconsistent state? |
| 14:58.04 | ``Erik | BRLCAD_ROOT and BRLCAD_PREFIX were expanded wrong in generating brlman |
| 14:58.26 | ``Erik | <-- sorta kinda seen similar differences in expansion on fbsd, is checking out a fresh cvs copy on obsd41 now |
| 14:58.36 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: cool |
| 14:58.57 | ``Erik | yes |
| 14:59.33 | ``Erik | sucks, cuz every day I want to use it, I have to install, reboot, let it upgrade, reboot again, THEN I can use it |
| 15:01.41 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: damn, I've answered you three times on the config file now... :) |
| 15:01.43 | Z80-Boy | looks like brlman <anything> doesn't work |
| 15:01.48 | Z80-Boy | It definitely worked before |
| 15:01.54 | brlcad | it's a recent problem .. probably VERY recent |
| 15:02.12 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: what were the previous 2 answers? Also "damn"? :) |
| 15:02.20 | brlcad | just has to be looked at, and nobody has looked at it yet |
| 15:02.25 | Z80-Boy | aha |
| 15:02.33 | ``Erik | sed -i.bak 's,brlcad/7.10.3/,,' /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman |
| 15:02.36 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 15:02.47 | brlcad | damn frustrating that you've asked the same thing three time and ignored or missed my responses each time to which I answered |
| 15:02.51 | Z80-Boy | sed: unknown option -- i |
| 15:02.57 | ``Erik | wow, obsd sucks |
| 15:03.02 | Z80-Boy | I don't remember I got the response |
| 15:03.08 | brlcad | exactly my point |
| 15:03.33 | ``Erik | mv /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman /tmp/ && sed s,brlcad/7.10.3/,, /tmp/brlman > /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman && rm /tmp/brlman |
| 15:03.48 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is there a command I could write manually into the .mgedrc to turn model space axes on in all 4 multipanes? |
| 15:03.59 | brlcad | also, the manpath issue really is just a basic system setup problem -- brlman should also work, but so should man |
| 15:04.05 | Z80-Boy | looks like .mgedrc consists of commands |
| 15:04.12 | brlcad | there's absolutely nothing special about the manpath that is special to brl-cad |
| 15:04.20 | brlcad | it's just another path like any other |
| 15:04.49 | Z80-Boy | does it mean it's not a bug of BRL-CAD? |
| 15:05.06 | ``Erik | for using 'man'? no, it's an issue with openbsd's man, probably user error |
| 15:05.10 | brlcad | that brlman doesn't work is a problem in brlman, yes |
| 15:05.14 | ``Erik | brlman not working IS our stick, though |
| 15:05.18 | brlcad | but that man doesn't, heck no .. that's a problem between you and your OS |
| 15:05.22 | brlcad | pebkac |
| 15:05.49 | brlcad | already noted |
| 15:06.02 | ``Erik | c'mon, dude, you use obsd, you should know more than the average clueless linux dork ;) *duck* |
| 15:06.07 | brlcad | it works here, so it's gotta be something obsd specific I'm guessing |
| 15:06.26 | ``Erik | well, it relates to something I saw on fbsd |
| 15:06.30 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: there are things like "set mged_default(max_text_lines) 10000" -> is there something like "set multipane(all_windows)"? |
| 15:06.34 | brlcad | fire up ssh access again, and I"ll look at it |
| 15:06.47 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: evening |
| 15:06.47 | ``Erik | remember when I was asking if you'd mucked with the datadir ? |
| 15:06.51 | ``Erik | <-- running his obsd vm |
| 15:06.57 | ``Erik | <-- looking into it right now... *cough* |
| 15:07.01 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: now I am behing the No Access Translator |
| 15:07.46 | brlcad | whenever, there's just only so much that can be done when the problem seems to be limited to just that environment .. what were your configure options? |
| 15:08.09 | Z80-Boy | no options just ./configure |
| 15:11.32 | brlcad | then yeah, probably just some shell assumption in the brlman script .. what does "which awf" report? |
| 15:11.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:12.02 | ``Erik | scroll up, brlcad |
| 15:12.06 | ``Erik | we already know the issue |
| 15:12.28 | brlcad | we do? |
| 15:12.49 | ``Erik | yes, BRLCAD_DATA was expanded weird, perhaps between two seperate configure runs |
| 15:13.08 | brlcad | oh, the share/man |
| 15:13.14 | ``Erik | in his installed brlman, he has MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man and his man files are in /usr/brlcad/share/man/ |
| 15:15.55 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~$ which awf |
| 15:15.55 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/bin/awf |
| 15:16.46 | Z80-Boy | can you please turn on axes in multipane, save the .mgedrc and then find the magical command in .mgedrc which turns the multipanes on? |
| 15:17.21 | brlcad | you can be really impatient, you know that? :) |
| 15:17.32 | brlcad | do you want me to look at the brlman thing, or the multipane thing? |
| 15:17.46 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: don't you remember the command by hart? |
| 15:18.00 | brlcad | hah, of course not |
| 15:18.32 | ``Erik | <-- already on the brlman thing... O.o |
| 15:18.32 | Z80-Boy | is there some list of these commands somewhere? |
| 15:18.34 | brlcad | if I knew it by heart, don't you think I would have said something an hour ago when you first mentioned it? :) |
| 15:18.46 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 15:18.53 | brlcad | or half-hour, whenver it was |
| 15:19.09 | brlcad | well, i would have |
| 15:19.19 | Z80-Boy | sometimes I get an impression that you cannot process things fast enough from me and skip some of them |
| 15:19.25 | brlcad | you can't keep a million lines in context *all* the time |
| 15:19.52 | ``Erik | <-- lucky to keep 4 :D |
| 15:20.51 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: I DO skip them.. when you start complaining about a new issue. if you don't I'm still working on the problem or something that I was working on before you reported the issue |
| 15:20.59 | ``Erik | (building automake shtuff on obsd41, has a fresh cvs co to test this crap on) |
| 15:21.05 | brlcad | all a matter of priorities.. I can't just drop everything when you can't figure out how to set your own MANPATH ;) |
| 15:22.08 | Z80-Boy | lol :) |
| 15:23.43 | brlcad | ``Erik: I suspect it's just a matter of default manpath (in Makefile, after configure) is set to prefix/man instead of datadir/man .. quick fix should be to just add a search dir for BRLCAD_ROOT/man to brlman.in |
| 15:24.24 | brlcad | as well as 'maybe' set mandir when datadir is changed in configure.ac .. dunno, that seems kinda error prone |
| 15:24.26 | ``Erik | possibly, let me get a full-on build on obsd... last time, I just copied the directory from fbsd, so I didn't have all the auto crap in |
| 15:24.35 | ``Erik | and I'm seeing... interesting behavior out of autogen.sh right now :) |
| 15:24.58 | brlcad | oh? ran fine for me on z80's obsd |
| 15:25.12 | ``Erik | yes, he has some stuff set up that I don't |
| 15:25.31 | ``Erik | <--- starting from a bare install with default environment |
| 15:26.19 | brlcad | oh right, it does search brlcad_root/man already .. it's not just prefix/man .. default must be something like pkg_datadir/man or something |
| 15:27.02 | brlcad | well, I did have to set the env vars that the autoconf/automake scripts bitched about, but that was pretty benign |
| 15:27.12 | ``Erik | that's what I'm looking at |
| 15:27.29 | ``Erik | you have the variables set in autogen.sh, but you comment "2.52 or better", and never checkk for "better" |
| 15:28.32 | ``Erik | bleh, I'll just set the variables and move on :) |
| 15:28.56 | brlcad | hm? it does a minimum check |
| 15:29.41 | ``Erik | "AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.9 AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.59 LIBTOOL_VERSION=1.5.22 ./autogen.sh" works, ./autogen.sh does not, complains that it cannot find autoconf |
| 15:30.21 | brlcad | setting the env vars is imposed by the obsd wrappers, there's not really any way to compensate -- they don't report a version, so autogen.sh can't identify them as autoconf |
| 15:30.28 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: yes on OBSD you have set these annoying variables before calling any auto-crap tool |
| 15:30.31 | brlcad | from the scripts perspective, that is not autoconf, and it's right |
| 15:30.46 | brlcad | it's a wrapper .. and that wrapper doesn't work until the var is set |
| 15:31.00 | ``Erik | freebsd used to require calling them at autoconf259 and automake19 before they pulled their heads out of their asses, heh |
| 15:31.11 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 15:32.36 | ``Erik | now they have wrappers that search for 'best version' if not being told which to use |
| 15:32.53 | brlcad | I thought about whether there was anything automatic that can be done for the vars, like try auto-setting AUTOCONF_VERSION=minimum_version_here .. and reinvoking autogen.sh for the user, but that won't work -- the wrapper expects that specific version |
| 15:33.27 | brlcad | so you'd have to do a locate or have a table of possibilities, and that's nfg |
| 15:35.57 | brlcad | last mult |
| 15:36.11 | ``Erik | /bin/ls `which automake`-* | sort -n | tail -n 1 | sed 's/.*-//' |
| 15:36.26 | Z80-Boy | 1.9 |
| 15:36.32 | brlcad | yeah, that seems exceptionally "nfg" to me :) |
| 15:36.39 | ``Erik | heh, that was for brlcad, not you, clock :) |
| 15:37.05 | Z80-Boy | But it works even on OpenBSD, which is impressive. |
| 15:37.06 | brlcad | maybe if another OS does the same thing |
| 15:37.54 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: into which script would this autodetect code have to go? |
| 15:38.06 | Z80-Boy | autogen? configure? |
| 15:38.13 | brlcad | autogen.sh |
| 15:38.15 | ``Erik | I'd imagine autogen.sh, but brlcad doesn't like it, so *shrug* obsd suffers for being an outlyer |
| 15:38.35 | Z80-Boy | but that's because I ran autogen.sh on OpenBSD? |
| 15:38.43 | brlcad | it's also not "the obsd way" .. they apparently want their users to set those env vars |
| 15:38.50 | ``Erik | n/m some of the horrors in the code to just support irix, or just support unicos :D |
| 15:38.54 | Z80-Boy | If the developer ran it on Linux, made a sharp version I loaded the sharp versionf rom a .tgz and compiled, then it would work, right? |
| 15:39.21 | brlcad | ``Erik: except NONE of them to date resort to scanning the filesystem or relying on things like makewhatis |
| 15:39.23 | ``Erik | yes, if you ran autogen.sh on linux, it'd "just work", same for most os's |
| 15:39.34 | Z80-Boy | Or could the script say "autoconf not foung please make sure that if you type autoconf you get autoconf running, on OpenBSD you have to set up some obscure variables"? |
| 15:40.38 | brlcad | I thought about adding the same searching for freebsd when they would install the bin/autoconf-* without the symlinks .. but in the end the user really still needs to add that symlink regardless |
| 15:41.22 | Z80-Boy | Does the autogen.sh require that "autoconf" runs Autoconf and not some bloody script that prints an error message? |
| 15:41.24 | ``Erik | but fbsd has 8 users, that's a lot more than the 3 of obsd ;) *duck* |
| 15:41.30 | Z80-Boy | lol :) |
| 15:41.39 | Z80-Boy | Theo de Raadt, me and who's the third one? |
| 15:42.00 | ``Erik | I forget the name, but he pipes up in #bsdcode on efnet once in a while |
| 15:42.02 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:42.50 | ``Erik | (unless you do kernel or core system development, you probably don't want to go there, they make ME seem like a well-mannered politic sweatheart) |
| 15:43.16 | brlcad | hey, if you can think of a way to get it to just work without searching, I'm all for addin git |
| 15:43.28 | brlcad | s/n g/ng / |
| 15:44.50 | ``Erik | no, I think there has to be some form of scan, either by looking at ${PREFIX}/bin/automake-* or /var/db/pkg/automake* and searching for a 'sufficient' version :/ |
| 15:45.09 | Z80-Boy | But I had the variables set |
| 15:45.29 | ``Erik | obsd's wrappers do not perscribe to the princeple of least surprise. |
| 15:45.41 | ``Erik | for a non-obsd person, at least |
| 15:46.06 | Z80-Boy | hmm I found this |
| 15:46.23 | Z80-Boy | $id.menubar.modes.axes add checkbutton -offvalue 0 -onvalue 1\ 1731 -variable mged_gui($id,model_draw) -label "Model" -underline 0\ 1732 -command "mged_apply $id \"rset ax model_draw \$mged_gui($id,model_draw)\"" |
| 15:46.32 | Z80-Boy | what should I type into the .mgedrc? |
| 15:46.45 | Z80-Boy | mged-apply 0 rset ax model_draw, and also for 1 2 3? |
| 15:58.38 | ``Erik | iiiiinteresting |
| 16:13.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/brlman/brlman.in: search the defined "mandir", too |
| 16:24.57 | ``Erik | awf is a skeery beast O.o |
| 16:27.53 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: do you have axes turned on in your .mgedrc? could you please post it? |
| 16:28.39 | ``Erik | I have no .mgedrc |
| 16:30.13 | Z80-Boy | what's the new linux kernel development? All version numbers development" |
| 16:30.55 | ``Erik | heh, so the two branches of linux development are alpha and pre-alpha? :D |
| 16:31.49 | Z80-Boy | no they are pre-pre and pre-school. |
| 16:32.13 | Z80-Boy | Linux is for teletubbies. |
| 16:32.32 | Z80-Boy | They can't even figure out kernel interface description. |
| 16:33.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:34.23 | ``Erik | they have a weird behavior in ioctl that I've seen horrible horribly abused in drivers, and the driver writers (nvidia) didn't seem to understand why what they did was wrong, cuz it seemed to work on linux... |
| 16:35.06 | ``Erik | speaking of shit-talking on linux... cjohnson has a fun article comparing linux to fbsd in the mid 90's :) ummmm |
| 16:35.09 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: can you please turn multipane on, set axes to model in all four, then save .mgedrc and grep for model_draw in the .mgedrc and paste me the magic lines I should add to get it? Thanks... |
| 16:35.45 | Z80-Boy | linux is becoming the microsoft of free software :) |
| 16:36.00 | Z80-Boy | Torvalds has sexappeal similar to Gates. |
| 16:36.47 | MinuteElectron | Gates? sexappeal? lol |
| 16:38.48 | ``Erik | heh, clock,I have no idea how to use the program :D I got it i n multipane mode, and I have the axis star on one pane... now I'm stuck, and I have no idea how to save an .mgedrc :D |
| 16:39.11 | ``Erik | and the cheat card isn't hleping me O.o |
| 16:40.03 | ``Erik | cool, 'create/update .mgedrc' in the menu gives me an error |
| 17:02.44 | ``Erik | "Linux has the feeling of a bunch of dos crackers getting together and putting together a Unix box, with out ever having seen a Unix box before. The kernel has a very "dos" feel to it. The console feels very much like a dos console. The whole thing has an undercurrent of dos like contamination running through it." |
| 17:03.02 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 17:03.36 | ``Erik | http://www.cyberpaladin.com/~cjohnson/#report |
| 17:03.57 | ``Erik | back when I was a hardcore linux zea^Wadvocate |
| 17:09.13 | yukonbob | overheard on #tcl: |
| 17:09.22 | yukonbob | Speaking of Linux... did you ever wonder what it would take to justify a 3.x kernel? |
| 17:09.32 | yukonbob | something worth using? |
| 17:14.24 | ``Erik | naturally, you're suffering a hypochondriadic amplification, since you went and researched it... |
| 17:14.55 | Maloeran | You believe so? I thought I observed the symptoms long before researching the subject |
| 17:15.18 | ``Erik | that's why I said amplification... :D |
| 17:15.19 | Maloeran | Survice is going to be annoying with my severe drop in productivity if I don't fix that quickly |
| 17:15.26 | Maloeran | to be annoyed* |
| 17:16.10 | ``Erik | hum, slashdot has a 'real-time raytracing' headline up |
| 17:19.44 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-009-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 17:51.30 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 17:51.30 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
| 18:08.20 | brlcad | yukonbob: i've heard both with respect to tcl/tk versioning, and from folks in #tcl, so I'm not really sure whom to believe (not that it matters a whole lot, it'll be what it is when they release of course) |
| 18:11.07 | brlcad | but yeah, the last I'd heard, 8.5 would be their "final" when alpha/beta testing completes |
| 18:24.45 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:26.11 | brlcad | excellent |
| 18:26.34 | brlcad | would be something good to add to the wiki for others later |
| 18:27.31 | Z80-Boy | But it's just a workaround for my immediate problem |
| 18:27.39 | Z80-Boy | I guess when you fix it it won't be necessary anymore |
| 18:28.11 | Z80-Boy | Is there something like rtedge, but doing a wireframe? |
| 18:29.44 | ``Erik | I don't think any accurate wireframe stuff is in BRL-CAD... the wireframe display in mged is a basic approximation and does no CSG solving |
| 18:38.35 | Maloeran | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6993762.stm |
| 18:38.41 | Z80-Boy | When I turn on the grid, what unit is a square? |
| 18:38.51 | Z80-Boy | It doesn't seem to be neither 10 units nor anything similar |
| 18:41.22 | Z80-Boy | I think if I should choose the coolest software in the world, it would be BRL-CAD... |
| 18:42.05 | Z80-Boy | Development started 1979, very oldskool, lots of unimagined possibilities, binary file format, very cool clean rendering thanks to CSG |
| 18:43.09 | Z80-Boy | Developed by a world top workplace in computer technology... |
| 19:08.41 | Z80-Boy | how do I get from SOL PICK to SOL EDIT state? I tried press <everything> and nothing does it |
| 19:09.09 | Z80-Boy | Or is the way how to directly enter SOL EDIT state on given solid? |
| 20:07.46 | ``Erik | 'sed blah.s' ? |
| 20:33.25 | *** join/#brlcad poo1io (n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu) | |
| 20:35.41 | Z80-Boy | no it doesn't work |
| 20:48.36 | starseeker | yukonbob: You're doing docbook markup on Vol4? |
| 21:08.14 | yukonbob | starseeker: I started, yup -- we should compare notes etc. |
| 22:07.40 | ``Erik | bob: ddija look at hte vol2 markup to make sure it's all being done consistently? :D |
| 22:16.10 | yukonbob | ``Erik: not yet... that's something I'm concerned about though ;) |
| 22:18.44 | starseeker | It may not be fully consistent yet - I'm just getting started |
| 22:48.01 | yukonbob | starseeker: re: consistency -- I'm thinking between your work and my work :) -- of course ea. is a work-in-progress until it's done, but as long as we're roughly as strict as the other, and using same formatting where applicable... |
| 23:57.06 | ``Erik | bob: commit bit is about brlcad or lbutler... but if you submit a patch or shar, I'd be able to look at it |
| 00:13.37 | starseeker | yukonbob: Ah :-). I should mention this is my first encounter with Docbook, so I'm feeling my way as I go |
| 00:24.47 | yukonbob | starseeker: what tools are you using to do your work? |
| 00:35.04 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 00:36.19 | starseeker | nedit and the docbook website |
| 00:37.55 | thing0 | hey yall |
| 00:39.01 | starseeker | yukonbob: What tools do you prefer? |
| 00:40.42 | thing0 | hehe |
| 00:40.45 | thing0 | I hate all tools |
| 00:40.47 | thing0 | ;) |
| 00:40.48 | yukonbob | starseeker: I'm using xemacs (psgml/xml mode), openjade, jadetex, www for reference... |
| 00:40.52 | thing0 | nothing works how I want it to work |
| 00:40.59 | thing0 | but it takes to much effort to fix them all |
| 00:41.00 | thing0 | ;) |
| 00:41.02 | yukonbob | thing0: you need new tools ;) |
| 00:41.28 | thing0 | yeah |
| 00:41.33 | yukonbob | starseeker: ...dvipdf, xpdf, and some simple homebrew Makefiles |
| 00:41.34 | thing0 | but there is nothing on the market |
| 00:41.41 | thing0 | which meets all my requirements |
| 00:41.44 | thing0 | I am too picky |
| 00:41.46 | thing0 | ;) |
| 00:43.22 | thing0 | why is it so hard to have a customisable right click menu |
| 00:43.32 | thing0 | or be able to reconfigure dialog boxes |
| 00:47.22 | starseeker | Erm. OK, I wonder how different the nxml and psgml/xml mode identing is |
| 00:48.10 | starseeker | yukonbob: I'll try commiting the updated formatting using nXML mode (which has already spotted a couple xml errors for me :-)) |
| 00:48.23 | starseeker | I haven't moved beyond that to trying to process as I go |
| 00:48.43 | starseeker | I'm using the full txt file to guide me |
| 00:52.22 | yukonbob | ?full txt file |
| 00:52.45 | starseeker | The complete conversion of VolII to txt |
| 00:52.48 | starseeker | all in one file |
| 00:52.54 | yukonbob | ahh... |
| 00:53.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: |
| 00:53.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Used Emacs nXML mode to update indent, fixed a few problems. Using |
| 00:53.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: [Enter] instead of <Enter> for the command notation to avoid the editor |
| 00:53.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: seeing <Enter> as a tag. |
| 00:53.11 | starseeker | It sound's like you're ahead of me in the tools game |
| 00:54.44 | yukonbob | if you go jade-route, I can give you my makefile which will save fsck-ing around and streamline the process. |
| 00:54.53 | starseeker | Sounds good |
| 00:55.12 | starseeker | brlcad will probably select his preferred toolset in the end, but it shouldn't matter for the conversion process |
| 00:56.23 | yukonbob | same as I'm using... |
| 00:56.36 | starseeker | OK. How different is our tagging style? |
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| 01:18.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: |
| 01:18.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: yukonbob spotted that commands should use <command> rather than |
| 01:18.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: <literal>. |
| 01:31.45 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 01:51.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: More markup - 1st formal table. |
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| 04:31.05 | yukonbob | starseeker: you still on? |
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| 08:38.36 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: alt-f to open the File menu collides with alt-f which makes the upper elft pane active |
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| 08:39.58 | Z80-Boy | Plus the normal vectors seem the be calculated wrong for either arbn or cylinder |
| 08:40.35 | Z80-Boy | because I have a cylinder which is smoothly joined to a piece of arbn, and it makes an abrupt change in colour. |
| 08:42.29 | Z80-Boy | Is this allowed to happen? |
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| 09:19.35 | Z80-Boy | Oh, the grid spacing can be set to milimeters and then it is usable! |
| 09:19.41 | Z80-Boy | It was just in a different menu than the grid. |
| 09:28.16 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 09:45.33 | Z80-Boy | brl-cad is showing corrupt geometry for me |
| 09:45.58 | Z80-Boy | I have two parts - tee.g and ell.g and a group of them, tee_ell.g where one part is rotated just by swapping and inverting axes |
| 09:46.14 | Z80-Boy | the group is showing the part completely mangled, things protruding which not exists, completely different shape |
| 09:46.22 | Z80-Boy | I checked that the matrix is not weird and made it again |
| 09:46.51 | Z80-Boy | Sometimes mged even hangs when trying to display the group and has to be restarted to display |
| 09:47.27 | Z80-Boy | On the raytrace the protruding thing is missing -> raytrace shows something else than mged |
| 09:49.42 | Z80-Boy | I need someone to try to reproduce it because it doesn't make sense to post a bugreport when it won't happen on a different OS |
| 09:55.01 | Z80-Boy | oh, now brl-cad crashed |
| 09:55.01 | Z80-Boy | seems that brl-cad crashes or hangs every time I open the tee_ell.g in red and change the matrix |
| 10:11.10 | Z80-Boy | Now it doesn't crash or hang, but it doesn't redraw anything - the old drawing remains |
| 10:11.10 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 10:15.34 | Z80-Boy | It seems to be caused by a bug in the arbn tranform code |
| 10:15.47 | Z80-Boy | if you take an arbn and mirror the x axis, you get something completely different. |
| 10:18.29 | Z80-Boy | Bug isolated... |
| 10:19.08 | Z80-Boy | Who wants the .g? |
| 10:26.33 | *** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 10:26.56 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I have just sent you the bug isolate to your @users.sourceforge.net address. |
| 10:27.15 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 10:27.28 | MinuteElectron | You could just use the sf bug tracker. |
| 10:27.54 | Z80-Boy | "(-) Error - Choose a Group ERROR - No group_id was chosen" |
| 10:28.14 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I see. |
| 10:28.22 | MinuteElectron | You must choose a group I guess. |
| 10:31.41 | Z80-Boy | Wohoo, I changed my 123456 password back to my universal password and SF doesn't complain :) |
| 10:38.44 | *** join/#brlcad thing2 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 10:42.17 | Z80-Boy | MinuteElectron: what version of brl-cad do you have? |
| 10:42.57 | Z80-Boy | MinuteElectron: can you try the file? https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1800148&group_id=105292&atid=640802 |
| 10:45.18 | MinuteElectron | I don't have BRL-CAD. |
| 10:46.54 | MinuteElectron | I would if I had an internet capable Linux PC, but I don't and can't work out how to use my removable hard disk on Command Line Linux. |
| 10:47.41 | thing2 | hmm |
| 10:48.05 | Z80-Boy | thing0: do you have brl-cad? |
| 10:49.27 | thing0 | neg |
| 10:49.37 | thing0 | shitty net connection |
| 10:49.44 | thing0 | will probably install when I get back |
| 10:50.00 | thing0 | cause I have just about had it with commercial CAD ;) |
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| 11:44.31 | Z80-Boy | The arbn doesn't seem to have had much attention by the developers |
| 11:44.43 | Z80-Boy | not only it mirrors badly, but it also calculates the lighting badly. |
| 11:56.36 | Z80-Boy | The sourceforge is extremely slow |
| 11:56.43 | Z80-Boy | transferring data from ssl-analytics.google.com... |
| 11:57.13 | Z80-Boy | Now it shows a bugreport as an empty page |
| 11:58.02 | Z80-Boy | Now it uploaded a file twice... |
| 11:58.07 | Z80-Boy | Ultimate crap... |
| 11:59.18 | Z80-Boy | Firefox: You have chosen to open bad_shading.png which is image/png. It offers save or download, but not display! |
| 12:04.30 | Z80-Boy | So now there are 2 bugreports on sourceforge with screenshots. |
| 12:05.26 | Z80-Boy | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=105292&atid=640802&file_id=246705&aid=1800148 |
| 12:58.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 2. |
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| 15:09.04 | Z80-Boy | 38 azimuth 15 elephantion off of front view |
| 16:06.17 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o MinuteElectron] by ChanServ | |
| 18:20.28 | Z80-Boy | dbconcat segfaults... |
| 18:21.51 | Z80-Boy | ASCII import also segfaults... |
| 18:22.05 | Z80-Boy | very helpful |
| 18:26.24 | Z80-Boy | ls claims to accept -A but doesn't... |
| 21:13.27 | Maloeran | Hey brlcad, just in case you want to compare, this is kind of installation we have in Montreal for bicycles : http://www.rayforce.net/bicycle-lanes-small.jpg |
| 21:14.08 | Maloeran | This really is a bridge exclusively for bicycles and pedestrians. I wasn't kidding when I was comparing with Maryland's lanes... |
| 21:40.03 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.178.46) | |
| 22:16.26 | ``Erik | md is too ... populated... bikers take over streets at times, in herds |
| 22:22.20 | ``Erik | boggling that 'candide' was censored and banned as 'obscene' :( |
| 22:22.48 | yukonbob | point your xmms to: http://207.200.96.231:8012 |
| 22:22.51 | Maloeran | It directly attacked religions and theism in rather... sensitive times |
| 22:22.56 | yukonbob | (soma) |
| 22:23.29 | ``Erik | on to frank zappa (willy the pimp) |
| 22:23.46 | ``Erik | mal: it was banned in the 20th century. |
| 22:23.52 | Maloeran | Woah! |
| 22:23.56 | Maloeran | I didn't know that |
| 22:24.33 | ``Erik | upenn keeps an amusing list of banned works in supposed enlightened nations |
| 22:24.45 | ``Erik | canuckia has a good fistful, btw |
| 22:25.09 | Maloeran | Really? I can't imagine anything of the sort being banned here |
| 22:28.32 | ``Erik | http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html |
| 22:29.32 | Maloeran | There isn't much about Canada in there, besides banning "hate speech" books, which I can understand |
| 23:59.32 | starseeker | you've been going all day? |
| 23:59.49 | yukonbob | pretty much -- ~6 hours I guess (!) |
| 23:59.59 | starseeker | eeeep! |
| 00:01.20 | starseeker | yukonbob: How far into vol4 are you? |
| 00:01.51 | yukonbob | just started ch 5. (converting to brlcad). |
| 00:02.02 | yukonbob | 31 formatted pages once I build it. |
| 00:03.29 | starseeker | Wow |
| 00:04.12 | starseeker | Me is trying to finish up Lesson 3 |
| 00:04.22 | starseeker | (complicated tables suck...) |
| 00:21.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 3 |
| 02:36.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: |
| 02:36.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: adjust_names() was being called with a null comb->tree (an empty combination). |
| 02:36.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Added a check for null comb->tree and skip call if so. |
| 02:36.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: This fixes bug [ 1800306 ] dbconcat segfaults. |
| 05:29.13 | louipc | yukonbob, starseeker: you guys need to be paid for this or something haha |
| 05:52.10 | yukonbob | louipc: ;) |
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| 18:03.50 | Maloeran | Have a safe journey! |
| 18:26.09 | yukonbob | heh |
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| 21:02.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Formatting a number of tables. |
| 21:15.21 | *** join/#brlcad hussam (n=hussam@77.94.33.8.satgate.net) | |
| 21:16.49 | hussam | I'm downloading BRLCAD source code. I was wondering how hard is it to learn this program if I already know AutoCAD? |
| 21:19.15 | louipc | it's quite different. are you comfortable drawing via commands in autocad? |
| 21:24.20 | hussam | louipc. yes |
| 21:24.30 | louipc | you can't be a complete point-and-click type person |
| 21:24.41 | louipc | hussam: then I think it would be OK for you |
| 21:24.50 | hussam | ok great. |
| 21:25.21 | louipc | the commands are different though |
| 21:26.09 | hussam | If there's good documentation, I can learn easily. |
| 21:27.05 | hussam | I used AutoCAD in university but I was looking for a good program to make drawings and print them at home on my Linux box. |
| 21:28.10 | Z80-Boy | hussam: unfortunately the documentation is often omitting crucial details |
| 21:28.37 | Z80-Boy | hussam: BRL-CAD cannot make drawings. qcad can. |
| 21:29.16 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548750CA.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:29.37 | louipc | yeah BRL-CAD isn't really for drafting yet |
| 21:29.59 | louipc | it's good for making 3D models |
| 21:43.20 | hussam | Z80-Boy, louipc: I've tried qcad a few years ago. I don't remember having a good experience with it. |
| 21:43.58 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548748B2.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:45.54 | louipc | yeah it's unfortunate hah |
| 21:50.24 | hussam | I just stumbled onto this while searching on google http://www.opencascade.org/_popup/727/ |
| 21:51.04 | hussam | there seems to be a a Linux version too |
| 21:52.23 | louipc | yeah I've heard about it. I haven't tried it yet though |
| 21:54.48 | hussam | louipc, it's 183MB so it'll take a while to download. I'm getting an average of 25Kbytes/sec |
| 21:55.46 | hussam | but I'll install BRLCAD as well |
| 22:13.13 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548748B2.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 22:43.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Previous commit checked for null prior to call to adjust_names(), moved the null check into adjust_names(). |
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| 02:54.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Additional markup |
| 04:54.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 5 |
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| 12:28.33 | Maloeran | Hum! Okay, I have quite a stupid question. How do you have command line tools pick file names that begin with - ( dash ) without complaining about an invalid option? |
| 12:29.15 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487536D.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 12:29.37 | Maloeran | Ah right, a preceeding -- does it |
| 12:30.36 | archivist | Maloeran, you can quote a filename |
| 12:42.22 | Maloeran | "" would not help, it would still complain about an invalid option |
| 12:49.55 | brlcad | some commands take it, many in fact, but not all |
| 12:51.31 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: with my patch it's much easier to work with matrices in red |
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| 13:34.02 | thing0 | hey |
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| 14:06.27 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 14:33.40 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: okay, thanks! .. I was gone all weekend through Fri so it'll take me a bit to catch up with all the e-mail/trackers -- I did see them, though |
| 14:33.44 | brlcad | lots of good stuff |
| 14:33.58 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you're welcome |
| 14:34.15 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I could also get over that segfault and merge 2 databases together - someone already fixed it |
| 14:35.45 | brlcad | yeah, looked like john fixed it |
| 14:36.04 | brlcad | he reads your postings too ;) |
| 14:38.59 | *** join/#brlcad steko (n=steko@generic-nat.unisi.it) | |
| 14:50.18 | brlcad | ciao steko |
| 14:50.30 | steko | ciao brlcad, |
| 15:36.48 | starseeker | Welcome back brlcad ;-) |
| 16:58.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:58.35 | ``Erik | are you using push or xpush any? |
| 17:49.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: missing the second test command for the WITH_OPENGL conditional, irix shell no likey |
| 17:51.22 | ``Erik | is that one of those '"no" command not found' warnings? |
| 17:52.31 | brlcad | yep |
| 17:52.58 | brlcad | i'd fixed it week before last, but apparently forgot to commit it |
| 17:53.14 | ``Erik | good thing I didn't waste time digging into it :D |
| 17:53.54 | brlcad | it was the extra conditional you'd added on with_opengl to check for x11 too |
| 17:54.07 | ``Erik | now why would I be seeing "Sorry, this database is READ-ONLY" ? |
| 17:54.12 | brlcad | apparently newer versions of 'test' don't mind it |
| 17:54.16 | ``Erik | oh, woops |
| 17:54.23 | ``Erik | did I forget doublequotes or something? |
| 17:54.25 | brlcad | dunno what posix says about it |
| 17:54.38 | brlcad | nah, it was the command itself, being able to do multiple statements |
| 17:55.09 | ``Erik | I was just fixing those in a shell script on debian :/ |
| 17:55.16 | brlcad | you wrote: test foo -eq bar && boo -eq yah |
| 17:55.23 | ``Erik | yesh |
| 17:55.30 | brlcad | instead of: test foo -eq bar && test boo -eq yah |
| 17:56.01 | brlcad | new test apparently recognizes the && or silently ignores, or I just didn't notice it was erroring elsewhere |
| 17:56.07 | brlcad | doesn't matter, just added the second test, all better |
| 17:56.13 | brlcad | miniscule |
| 17:57.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh: Migrate to using "test" instead of square brackets. Fix missing test on compound statement |
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| 18:09.57 | ``Erik | z80: if you use push after every matrix change, does it work better? O.o (push applies the matrix tot he primitives, so the comb matrices are reset back to identity) |
| 18:11.56 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I use red directly, is there a way to use push? |
| 18:12.16 | ``Erik | um, inside of red? I don't think so? |
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| 18:27.29 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@199.247.232.95) | |
| 18:27.35 | yukonbob | hello, cadders |
| 18:28.18 | brlcad | howdy yukonbobbers |
| 18:28.22 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 18:28.58 | yukonbob | hey brlcad, I'll take that committ bit from you now -- I've got docbook material to post ;) |
| 18:31.48 | brlcad | you been following starseeker's progress too? |
| 18:32.09 | yukonbob | yes -- we've been discussing the markup off-channel |
| 18:32.17 | brlcad | ah, neat |
| 18:34.24 | yukonbob | didn't want to fill this w/ docbook geekery, but probable should do it here, for logging's sake, everybody in loop :P |
| 18:34.51 | yukonbob | will do from now on; nothing crititcal lost though ;) |
| 18:48.13 | Z80-Boy | Now I understand why the threads are so slow |
| 18:48.33 | Z80-Boy | they are made of slanted cylinders, and that probably translated to TGC, and shooting TGC solves an equation of 4th order |
| 18:48.36 | Z80-Boy | brutal. |
| 18:52.14 | brlcad | anything even remotely cad-related is fair game ;) |
| 18:53.00 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: and the tgc's are actually fairly extensively optimized .. you could probably squeeze another 10% out, but it'd be really tough |
| 18:53.54 | brlcad | I suspect that the boolean is actually where you're spending most of your time, lots of CSG ops |
| 18:54.54 | Z80-Boy | boolean == ? |
| 18:55.19 | brlcad | the csg operations, union this with this with this, subtract this, etc |
| 18:55.44 | Z80-Boy | this is also optimized I guess |
| 18:55.49 | brlcad | very compact, but can quickly become very expensive if you have to evaluate many in a given cell |
| 18:56.13 | brlcad | heh, yeah .. i've tried rewriting the boolean weaver on at least three separate occasions now |
| 18:56.23 | brlcad | trying to get some speed out of it, and clean up the code |
| 18:56.44 | Z80-Boy | what about making a comb like a height field and rotating the comb radially? |
| 18:56.55 | Z80-Boy | Would it be faster than a lot of slanted cylinders stacked? |
| 18:57.15 | brlcad | not one of those tries did the performance actually increase though (and once even decreased significantly after the rewrite) |
| 18:58.12 | Z80-Boy | now I see the difference between BRL-CAD and the rest |
| 18:58.17 | Z80-Boy | BRL-CAD does proper bodie |
| 18:58.20 | Z80-Boy | bodies |
| 18:58.28 | Z80-Boy | most other programs use a quake-like triangular approximation |
| 18:58.38 | brlcad | not sure about using a height field .. my intuition would suggest that it'd be *massively* slower just due to the number of operations involved and the complexity of height field primitives |
| 18:59.43 | Z80-Boy | what else then? instead of cylinders rotate faceted things? |
| 19:01.19 | Z80-Boy | model screws as rivets, lol :) |
| 19:04.40 | Z80-Boy | but at least the screws look like real screws |
| 19:06.00 | Z80-Boy | is it possible to reference contents of another .g file in one .g file so that when the "another" file changes, it has an effect? |
| 19:08.54 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yep, those "proper bodies" as you referred to them are what we mean when we say that BRL-CAD predominantly uses an implicit geometry representation -- not an explicit format or a polygonalized approximation |
| 19:09.22 | brlcad | and also why getting multi-representation working is so important.. so we can go back and forth between the two more readily |
| 19:09.56 | Z80-Boy | polygonalized is an approximation right? |
| 19:09.57 | brlcad | pipe is the only primitive that quickly jumps to mind for a screw thread |
| 19:10.00 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:10.11 | Z80-Boy | that's for games, not rendering |
| 19:10.49 | brlcad | referring to the contents in another .g is provided the "submodel" primtive .. but that is *rarely* ever used.. I can't even think of the last time it was tested, so it may or may not work frankly |
| 19:11.11 | brlcad | it's usually better to do keep/dbconcat as needed for merging/mixing geometry files |
| 19:11.17 | Z80-Boy | no help for submodel |
| 19:11.24 | brlcad | it's a primitive type |
| 19:11.36 | brlcad | in blah submodel |
| 19:13.25 | yukonbob | re: screws and hardware, I suggest checking out ronja.twibright.com |
| 19:15.03 | Z80-Boy | treetop == ? |
| 19:15.28 | Z80-Boy | space partitioning method == ? |
| 19:20.02 | Z80-Boy | Is concatenation of two binary databases also a binary database? |
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| 19:24.28 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes, you can actually concat two dbs and end up with a valid db -- but if you concat that way, then it's entirely up to the user to know/resolve any naming conflicts beforehand |
| 19:24.49 | Z80-Boy | wow |
| 19:24.58 | Z80-Boy | I call this oldschool |
| 19:25.00 | brlcad | i.e. it's certainly doable, and often useful -- but wouldn't be the "usual" approach I'd suggest unless you know what you're doing |
| 19:25.13 | Z80-Boy | is there a unix command that does the same as "dbconcat" in mged? |
| 19:25.19 | Z80-Boy | Or can mged be fired in a script? |
| 19:25.26 | brlcad | you mean 'cat' ? |
| 19:25.38 | brlcad | mged can be fired in a script, that's probably best |
| 19:25.50 | Z80-Boy | how? mged << EOF commands EOF? |
| 19:25.54 | brlcad | mged -c existing.g dbconcat imported.g |
| 19:26.22 | brlcad | you could use an EOF herenow doc, but it will execute single commands if you list one after the filename |
| 19:26.28 | brlcad | e.g. mged -c file.g tops |
| 19:26.41 | Z80-Boy | but how do I get the output into a file then? |
| 19:26.53 | brlcad | get what output? |
| 19:26.55 | Z80-Boy | will it go into existing.g? |
| 19:27.11 | brlcad | it'll do whatever command you tell it |
| 19:27.28 | Z80-Boy | what does dbconcat -s and what -p? |
| 19:27.32 | brlcad | if you mean the text output that would normally be in the console, that's primarily stderr output |
| 19:27.40 | brlcad | sometimes content on stdout |
| 19:27.44 | brlcad | suffix/prefix |
| 19:28.08 | brlcad | it'll auto-append a prefix or suffix so you can guarantee there are no conflicting names |
| 19:28.12 | Z80-Boy | no I mean mged existing.g -c dbconcat add.g will store the resulting bigger database where? existing.g? |
| 19:28.14 | brlcad | during import |
| 19:28.47 | brlcad | it's as if you ran mged existing.g .. and then ran "dbconcat add.g" on th mged command prompt |
| 19:29.07 | Z80-Boy | and if I want to enter multiple commands on commandline? |
| 19:29.20 | Z80-Boy | omit -c, add "exit"? |
| 19:29.26 | brlcad | no |
| 19:29.34 | brlcad | -c is command/classic mode |
| 19:29.53 | brlcad | removing -c means that it' |
| 19:29.55 | Z80-Boy | call mged multiple times? |
| 19:29.58 | brlcad | it'll kick off the tcl gui |
| 19:30.01 | Z80-Boy | aha |
| 19:30.08 | Z80-Boy | so for a script, -c must be there...? |
| 19:30.12 | brlcad | yes |
| 19:30.32 | Z80-Boy | I think it will be best if I want to assemble two models together |
| 19:30.32 | brlcad | now, whether you list a command or not determines whether it's in single-command mode or not |
| 19:30.45 | Z80-Boy | make a.g, b.g and c_glue.g (source files) |
| 19:30.54 | Z80-Boy | and then cp c_glue.g c.g |
| 19:31.01 | Z80-Boy | mged -c c.g dbconcat a.g |
| 19:31.15 | Z80-Boy | mged -c c.g dbconcat b.g |
| 19:31.18 | Z80-Boy | and then rt c.g |
| 19:31.34 | Z80-Boy | then I'll have proper dependencies in the makefile |
| 19:31.36 | brlcad | yeah, you can reinvoke mged -c like that many times and it should be just fine -- it's really a lightweight binary in command-mode |
| 19:31.51 | Z80-Boy | how do I do it with only one mged invoke? |
| 19:32.05 | brlcad | a herenow doc like you suggested |
| 19:32.14 | brlcad | or source a tcl script |
| 19:32.23 | Z80-Boy | mged -c c.g < file_with_commands ? |
| 19:32.24 | brlcad | mged -c foo.g source file.tcl |
| 19:32.34 | brlcad | or mged -c foo.g <<EOF |
| 19:32.37 | brlcad | blah blah |
| 19:32.38 | brlcad | EOF |
| 19:32.54 | brlcad | yeah, you could use a redirect like that too |
| 19:33.07 | Z80-Boy | do I have to put "exit" as the last command? |
| 19:33.07 | brlcad | echo "tops" | mged -c foo.g |
| 19:33.19 | brlcad | nah, it quits on end-of-file |
| 19:33.24 | Z80-Boy | what sucks the most is not how it's slow, but that the dependences are missing |
| 19:33.36 | brlcad | dependencies? |
| 19:33.40 | Z80-Boy | I change one tiny nut and whole Ronja has to be recompiled, because i changed the Big Mighty ronja.g |
| 19:33.53 | Z80-Boy | I have all the hierarchy in ronja.g |
| 19:34.56 | Z80-Boy | but... a problem |
| 19:35.02 | Z80-Boy | I won't be able to edit the c_glue.g |
| 19:35.17 | Z80-Boy | since I won't see what I am doing :( |
| 19:35.35 | brlcad | heh, well depends what sorts of edits, and how often you need to do the editing |
| 19:35.43 | brlcad | if the editing can be scripted, you're golden |
| 19:36.07 | brlcad | pretty much everything that you can do via the gui can be done in classic mode |
| 19:36.16 | Z80-Boy | often |
| 19:36.24 | Z80-Boy | no scriptiing of editing |
| 19:36.39 | Z80-Boy | I think I need to use that seldom-used feature "dubmodel" |
| 19:36.43 | Z80-Boy | submodel |
| 19:36.48 | Z80-Boy | what's the "space partitioning"? |
| 19:36.56 | brlcad | well that's not a problem anything can really solve .. if you need to graphically edit, then .. well.. human in the loop |
| 19:37.23 | Z80-Boy | no it can be solved with the submodel |
| 19:37.33 | Z80-Boy | I just need to type explicit dependencies into the makefile |
| 19:37.39 | brlcad | i'm still not hearing what the problem you're actually trying to solve is |
| 19:37.48 | Z80-Boy | I basically need a brlcad equivalent of the C #include |
| 19:37.58 | brlcad | but what's the *problem* |
| 19:38.11 | brlcad | what do you need that for? |
| 19:38.19 | brlcad | not saying you don't, there just might be another/better way |
| 19:38.21 | Z80-Boy | for Ronja |
| 19:38.29 | brlcad | gah |
| 19:38.43 | brlcad | what is the *task* that you need it for? |
| 19:38.47 | Z80-Boy | If I change something on tiny part A, I don't want a video of tiny part B be rendered again |
| 19:39.04 | Z80-Boy | The task is to keep an up to date set of model videos of Ronja parts |
| 19:39.12 | Z80-Boy | throughout the development of the Ronja project |
| 19:39.18 | *** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 19:39.49 | brlcad | okay, got that good .. next question then is why does editing part A now cause B to be rendered again? |
| 19:40.01 | Z80-Boy | Because they are both in the same file - ronja.g |
| 19:40.06 | Z80-Boy | Editing part A touches that file |
| 19:40.23 | Z80-Boy | The makefile process is driven by timestamps on files |
| 19:40.24 | brlcad | ah, because you're using something that checks the file timestamp, like make or something |
| 19:41.01 | brlcad | got it |
| 19:41.52 | Z80-Boy | someone calls "Ronja is crap, it bent in the wind". I fire up mged console.g, replace 2mm thickness with 3mm thickness, type "make rsync" and the website is updated |
| 19:41.52 | brlcad | you can still do what you want without resorting to submodels |
| 19:41.56 | Z80-Boy | How? |
| 19:42.03 | brlcad | keep each part in it's own .g file, edit that file as needed |
| 19:42.19 | brlcad | have a make rule that does the dbconcat of each of those files to make the bigger .g |
| 19:42.21 | Z80-Boy | and how do I render videos where several parts are assembled into an assembly? |
| 19:43.30 | Z80-Boy | But I still need the combination of the parts and the matrices that say how the parts are shifted and rotated |
| 19:43.41 | Z80-Boy | and when debugging this matrix, I need to have all parts loaded in mged |
| 19:43.45 | brlcad | the videos use whatever submodel portion is being rendered, so if you are rendering a bolt animation, it'd use bolt.g -- if you are rendering the whole thing, it'll necessarily be the whole.g and will rerender when anything it includes updates |
| 19:43.52 | Z80-Boy | The only solution I can see is use the submodel |
| 19:44.14 | Z80-Boy | As I said, no way to actually work on whole.g |
| 19:44.38 | Z80-Boy | What is the "space partitioning", or at least what should I type there? |
| 19:44.46 | Z80-Boy | And what is the "treetop"? |
| 19:44.47 | brlcad | if you work on pushed matrices, then there are no shift/rotation matrices to deal with during composition |
| 19:44.56 | Z80-Boy | what is a pushed matrix? |
| 19:45.28 | brlcad | basically think of it as order of operations when dealing with a hierarchy |
| 19:45.29 | Z80-Boy | In any case I need to tell brl-cad how the parts should be translated and rotated before assembled |
| 19:45.38 | Z80-Boy | For this I need to have all parts loaded at once to try it out |
| 19:45.56 | brlcad | you can have a hierarchy that has matrics, or the matrices can be *pushed* down to the leave nodes (i.e. all the way to the primitives) |
| 19:46.28 | brlcad | it's a good/bad tradeoff in that it makes composition a breeze, but can be harder since you loose a localized coordiante system |
| 19:46.33 | brlcad | (per part) |
| 19:46.36 | Z80-Boy | hmm, what is the space partitioning? |
| 19:49.20 | brlcad | just put a zero |
| 19:49.25 | brlcad | if that doesn't work, but a 1 |
| 19:49.25 | Z80-Boy | cool |
| 19:49.31 | brlcad | s/but/put/ |
| 19:49.32 | Z80-Boy | How do I know it works? |
| 19:49.43 | brlcad | probably if it doesn't crash on you |
| 19:49.44 | Z80-Boy | And the treetop is actually the thing I want to include? |
| 19:49.59 | brlcad | like I said, you're veering into code that hasn't been used really in many years |
| 19:50.21 | brlcad | yeah, treetop is the hierarchy you want to reference |
| 19:50.31 | Z80-Boy | Isn't there really something like #include? |
| 19:50.58 | Z80-Boy | that would just merge in another file, without actually adding it into the working database? |
| 19:51.23 | brlcad | that is the submodel object |
| 19:51.31 | brlcad | (didn't we already go through this??) |
| 19:51.54 | brlcad | the only difference is that it's asking you what line to start with |
| 19:52.06 | brlcad | (if you're going to compare to #include) |
| 19:52.52 | Z80-Boy | Works |
| 19:52.56 | Z80-Boy | but it made the part all gray |
| 19:53.08 | Z80-Boy | How do I make it to keep the region structure inside the part? |
| 19:56.46 | brlcad | hm, I don't think it is |
| 19:57.12 | brlcad | it knows the structure, i.e. it's still there, but there aren't any named references to it unless you make submodels on a per-region basis |
| 19:58.11 | Z80-Boy | I can't use that then |
| 19:58.21 | Z80-Boy | Can I have file a submodelling b and b submodelling c? |
| 19:58.23 | brlcad | how about just keeping the one ronja.g file that you edit, but then have your script do a 'keep bolt_test.g bolt', and check if bolt_test.g md5 is same as bolt.g to determine whether it needs to cp bolt_test.g bolt.g |
| 19:58.40 | brlcad | yeah, recursive submodels should work |
| 19:58.55 | brlcad | and you're probably screwed if you make a cyclic reference |
| 19:59.03 | Z80-Boy | what is "keep bolt_test.g bolt" supposed to do? |
| 20:00.06 | Z80-Boy | Oh yes |
| 20:00.11 | Z80-Boy | that solves the problem with editing |
| 20:00.16 | brlcad | keep is an mged command, you'd have your ronja.g and then just break out .g files for each of the pieces that you're rendering the in makefile |
| 20:00.29 | Z80-Boy | I edit the machine-generated file c.g and then do "keep c_glue.g c" and that's it |
| 20:00.42 | Z80-Boy | I have even the luxury to decide if I want to keep my experimental changes or discard them wow :) |
| 20:00.46 | brlcad | but only "create" the new .g files if the contents actually change using something like g_diff or md5 |
| 20:00.55 | Z80-Boy | No need to use the wipe-my-nice-colours command "submodel" |
| 20:01.03 | brlcad | yeah, that sucks |
| 20:01.21 | brlcad | submodels solve a particular class of problems, but not really the one you need |
| 20:01.24 | Z80-Boy | but it has the cyclic reference problem :D |
| 20:01.28 | Z80-Boy | My computer would go on fire |
| 20:01.41 | Z80-Boy | I think the makefile will be fine |
| 20:02.17 | Z80-Boy | does the "keep" automatically keep all referenced objects or just the one object? |
| 20:02.33 | Z80-Boy | i. e. if I have a.c consisting of a.s and b.s, does it save only a.c or everything? |
| 20:03.05 | brlcad | everything referenced/needed |
| 20:03.14 | Z80-Boy | omg |
| 20:03.19 | Z80-Boy | how do I turn that off? |
| 20:03.25 | brlcad | huh? |
| 20:03.46 | brlcad | you wouldn't ever want to turn that off, maybe you misunderstand.. |
| 20:03.48 | Z80-Boy | Is there a command which does the same as keep, just saves the object without references? |
| 20:04.00 | Z80-Boy | I would, otherwise it would just save everything. |
| 20:04.09 | brlcad | a.c is just a couple text labels without a.s and b.s |
| 20:04.17 | brlcad | there wouldn't be any geometry |
| 20:04.20 | brlcad | nothing to see |
| 20:04.32 | brlcad | a.c is the operations |
| 20:04.42 | brlcad | you'd have ops on nothing |
| 20:05.34 | brlcad | give it a try, I don't think it means what you maybe think it means |
| 20:05.38 | brlcad | there's a model hierarchy |
| 20:05.45 | brlcad | a directed acylic graph of geometry and operations |
| 20:06.24 | brlcad | do display/use/edit *any* node in the hierarchy *necessarily* requires the subtree below it (by definition) |
| 20:07.01 | Z80-Boy | It keeps all prerequisites |
| 20:07.13 | Z80-Boy | I don't want that. It's useless for me. I want just the single object. |
| 20:08.30 | brlcad | it is the single object... |
| 20:08.59 | Z80-Boy | no if I open the database then I see a whole load of object |
| 20:09.01 | Z80-Boy | sobjects |
| 20:09.04 | Z80-Boy | objects |
| 20:09.05 | brlcad | you're misunderstanding something really fundamental here about the geometry hierarchy |
| 20:10.07 | brlcad | 'ls' merely shows you the geometry hierarchy flattened .. but there are requisite inter-relationships |
| 20:10.30 | brlcad | if you have a combination that says use this primitive and that primtive, those *necessarily* need to exist or the combination is invalid |
| 20:11.16 | brlcad | the primitives are the leaf nodes of the hierarchy, they *are* the positive and negative space |
| 20:11.40 | brlcad | the combinations merely describe how to .. combine them together |
| 20:13.47 | Z80-Boy | Is it possible to have the combination saved in a separate file? |
| 20:14.15 | brlcad | yes? |
| 20:14.18 | Z80-Boy | If I have two parts A and B that come together then I have 3 videos: A, B, and A+B |
| 20:14.41 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 20:15.13 | brlcad | okay |
| 20:15.24 | brlcad | A, B, and C (where C=A+B) |
| 20:17.45 | brlcad | so you have your ronja.g that has A,B,C ... your makefile will do a keep on A and B for certain, and on C if there are more contents than just A and B |
| 20:18.21 | brlcad | does the keep, do an md5 to see if they're different content-wise, if they are you cp |
| 20:35.19 | ``Erik | *ponder* |
| 20:37.04 | ``Erik | given a clone operation on a primitive, any rotation, translation, mirroring, etc. must alter the primitive in description as well as name, as solids have no matrix attached... should clone on a comb have the effect of push and hold identity matrix when given translation or rotation? |
| 20:37.32 | ``Erik | and when cloning, say, 10 copies, does mirror insinuate that all ten are flipped compared to the original, or that they alternate? |
| 20:49.18 | brlcad | some solids have a matrix, some don't .. but yeah it's all internal .. even the ones that do |
| 20:49.40 | brlcad | I wouldn't expect clone on a comb to push |
| 20:49.56 | brlcad | but it's probably option-worthy |
| 20:50.45 | brlcad | just mimic what the v4 code does |
| 20:50.47 | ``Erik | hm, by default, the state matrix is applied to all primitives on copy |
| 20:50.56 | brlcad | you can open a v4 and clone will work now already |
| 20:51.25 | ``Erik | man, that'd mean reading through the v4 format to figure ot what these direct hacks do :D |
| 20:51.43 | brlcad | I mean run the command, just see what it currently does |
| 20:51.53 | brlcad | i don't recall it doing a push |
| 20:52.05 | brlcad | but don't know what it did for -n 10 on a mirror |
| 20:52.15 | ``Erik | not explicitely, but in calling the v4_copy_solid, passing the matrix... |
| 20:52.23 | brlcad | my guess would be n mirrored copies, not flipflopping |
| 20:52.47 | brlcad | dbupgrade -r |
| 20:52.50 | brlcad | (revert) |
| 20:52.56 | brlcad | ssshh |
| 20:53.07 | brlcad | intentionally undoc'd |
| 20:53.15 | ``Erik | the source is the documentation O.o |
| 20:53.21 | brlcad | yep |
| 20:53.36 | brlcad | if they're smart enough to get that far, more power to them for using the option |
| 20:54.06 | ``Erik | I'm also kinda wondering if dbupgrade could do some magic testing to solve endian and other 'gotchas' |
| 20:54.38 | ``Erik | if it could, reliably... then v4 can start getting marked 'broken' in places to force adoption of v5 |
| 20:55.52 | brlcad | can't practically force it, just have to make enough of a good reason for them to upgrade/convert |
| 20:57.20 | ``Erik | yes, by slowly marking more and more v4 functions 'broken' (like, bu_log("broken"); return NULL; ) |
| 20:57.22 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:57.22 | brlcad | would be interesting to add the corresponding #defines to dbupgrade.c before the headers to see if it could be forced to presume local is big or little on-demand, though ... "should" work if the right things are set/undef'd |
| 20:58.14 | ``Erik | if its' just endian, then having little and big endian tests for the file magic should tell you to swap... hopefully no 'middle endian' or funny width files are out there :/ |
| 20:58.34 | ``Erik | or, rather, a 'right' magic and a 'backwards' magic |
| 21:16.00 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 21:21.30 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt232-45.northwestel.net) | |
| 21:22.39 | ``Erik | oh... hum... |
| 21:36.33 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | |
| 21:48.23 | yukonbob | brlcad: ping |
| 21:49.14 | iraytrace | yukonbob: pong! |
| 21:49.18 | iraytrace | ;-) |
| 21:50.13 | yukonbob | did you change your name sean? |
| 21:50.27 | brlcad | hum? |
| 21:50.33 | yukonbob | ah |
| 21:50.40 | brlcad | ah, heh no |
| 21:50.41 | yukonbob | iraytrace confused me. |
| 21:50.55 | iraytrace | sorry |
| 21:52.04 | yukonbob | brlcad: hey -- re: docs -- how long might it take to get commit access (do you need my sourceforge details?), or should I forward work to you for posting? |
| 21:53.13 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, need your sf.net user |
| 21:54.25 | brlcad | give me about an hour .. just now running out the door |
| 21:54.48 | yukonbob | np -- thx, brlcad :) |
| 21:54.50 | brlcad | time to cross the border *ding* taco bell |
| 22:02.37 | starseeker | yukonbob: How long is vol4 shaping up to be as docbook? |
| 22:12.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 6 |
| 22:26.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 7 |
| 22:42.11 | starseeker | Sweet! |
| 22:45.35 | yukonbob | getting all the references setup will be non-trivial, but I'm happy ;) |
| 22:48.07 | starseeker | Very nice! |
| 22:48.37 | yukonbob | how's your work going? |
| 22:48.58 | starseeker | and images... |
| 22:49.04 | starseeker | a ways to go |
| 22:49.11 | starseeker | But making progress! |
| 22:49.24 | yukonbob | ah -- /me has to do some images too -- I put in place-holder images currently |
| 22:50.48 | yukonbob | I'd like to thank $deity, my parents, all the other nominees... |
| 22:55.09 | yukonbob | starseeker: if you'd like my work to compare/contrast with what you've got going, let me know. |
| 22:58.01 | starseeker | that would be great - but if brlcad is going to give you commit privs, I'll get a look at it then |
| 22:58.41 | yukonbob | sure thing. |
| 00:11.24 | brlcad | he's added |
| 00:55.02 | starseeker | Thanks! |
| 00:55.48 | starseeker | made it through customs OK? ;-) |
| 01:17.47 | louipc | volII is a doosey though isn't it? |
| 01:18.32 | starseeker | it is indeed |
| 02:42.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 9 |
| 03:36.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/Makefile.am util/Makefile.am): |
| 03:36.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: missing linker libs causing run-time crashes due to missing symbols (lazy |
| 03:36.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: binding failures) on LIBDM .. it needs the DM_LIBS that were defined during |
| 03:36.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: configure (specifically the carbon framework in this instance for the |
| 03:36.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: application focus routine). |
| 03:44.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: apply Karel's sf patch 1800475 (improve ergonomoy of red) that provides improved matrix readability for mged 'red' command. the change adds an additional space after each matrix line in the 'red' file being edited. |
| 04:03.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: (log message trimmed) |
| 04:03.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: include a unique/special/new section specfically for the folks that have worked |
| 04:03.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: on documentation. this minimally includes betty schueler (mged tutorial vol2), |
| 04:03.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: eric edwards (VAST MAJORITY of the tutorial series vol1234), dwayne kregel |
| 04:03.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (Principles of effective modeling vol3), and cliff yapp (docbook conversion |
| 04:03.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: efforts). the developers are specifically *not* listed under the doc writer and |
| 04:03.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: other sections since they tend to apply to all of them, so make a note of that |
| 04:12.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: cliff is active |
| 04:12.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: apply karel's same tweak to the tree listing as well for spacing out matrices one character per matrix line |
| 04:18.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 04:18.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: mr. anderson fixed the dbconcat of empty combinations that was causing mged to |
| 04:18.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: crash. adjust_names() in wdb_obj.c (part of dbconcat) was being passed |
| 04:18.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: comb->tree without checking for a null value. john added a check for null and |
| 04:18.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: skips the combination (as null means it's an empty combination). this fixes two |
| 04:19.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bugs reported by karel kulhavy, sf bug 1800310 (ASCII import segfault in mged) |
| 04:19.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: and 1800306 (dbconcat segfaults). |
| 04:22.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oop, also comment on the improved matrix readability on mged 'red' command. this patch that was provided by karel adds a space after each row of the matrices being printed. |
| 04:31.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: oop, no fp |
| 05:26.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: add braces for proper indent |
| 05:51.20 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-109-48.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 06:00.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: |
| 06:00.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prevent a crash if we're using db5_get_attributes() and the object doesn't have |
| 06:00.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: any of the attributes we're looking for. we need to at least initialize the avs |
| 06:00.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: to empty, otherwise bu_avs_free will abort on a magic number check. |
| 06:02.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: |
| 06:02.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix the mged ls command's command argument processing. A handful of off-by-one |
| 06:02.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: errors on the -A option processing, now rewritten to avoid the issue altogether |
| 06:02.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: by stripping off the command name and ay processed arguments. now it also |
| 06:02.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prints a better error message if the args to -A are incorrect. |
| 06:04.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: |
| 06:04.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: change the help to the ls command to be a little more clear on what is expected |
| 06:04.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: of the special -A argument. this is in response to changes and repairs made in |
| 06:04.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: response to karel's sf patch 1800301 (ls -A claimed to be accepted, isn't). |
| 06:07.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 06:07.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fixed crash in mged ls -A attribute listing command, related to karel's sf patch |
| 06:07.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 1800301 (ls -A claimed to be accepted, isn't). the arguments where getting |
| 06:07.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: checked with an off-by-one error, but even with that problem fixed -- the |
| 06:07.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: command would crash mged due to an avs being freed that was never initialized. |
| 06:07.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: avs is now always freed too so the problem goes away. |
| 06:17.44 | poolio | oh my goodness. |
| 07:19.52 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 10:41.25 | Z80-Boy | woohoo, my BRL-CAD patch was accepted :) |
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| 11:13.10 | Z80-Boy | Is there a way to tell pix-fb to display the picture more than or a moment? |
| 11:13.19 | Z80-Boy | I tried all out switches and none of them does it |
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| 13:02.47 | ``Erik | brlcad: what os was that showing up on? O.o I hit default config on 5/6 os's, the only issues I saw were with broken libtools |
| 13:03.22 | ``Erik | ah, all my mac stuff was in X, using X, all X... |
| 13:05.57 | ``Erik | and all the stuff in DM_LIBS *SHOULD* be in libdm's "dependency_libs" variable... the .la should be the only thing ever needed, otherwise your libtool is broken or you're using it wrong |
| 13:07.01 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: -F/dev/Xl |
| 13:07.47 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: what? |
| 13:08.09 | brlcad | pix-fb -F/dev/Xl |
| 13:08.12 | brlcad | fbhelp |
| 13:08.23 | ``Erik | it's not a real /dev thing |
| 13:08.25 | Z80-Boy | *lol* |
| 13:08.28 | ``Erik | it's parsed in BRL-CAD |
| 13:08.30 | Z80-Boy | another secret hidden man |
| 13:08.40 | ``Erik | nah, it's in fbhelp and the libfb manpage and a few zillion other places |
| 13:08.59 | ``Erik | only place it isn't is the non-existant faq :D |
| 13:09.03 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: and what does -F/dev/Xl do? |
| 13:09.10 | ``Erik | dipslay to X, linger |
| 13:10.18 | Z80-Boy | another place where -F is not described is man pix-fb |
| 13:10.33 | Z80-Boy | I read the manpage before I wrote the patch |
| 13:11.30 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: well, you have to actually read the page, it does describe this |
| 13:11.42 | Z80-Boy | -F is only in one place - the synopsis |
| 13:11.47 | brlcad | man pix-fb .. very first paragraph says what? |
| 13:12.00 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:12.13 | Z80-Boy | Whis is the same as "-F framebuffer" |
| 13:12.14 | brlcad | sentence right before that |
| 13:12.31 | Z80-Boy | says "after -F, you can stick something and that something is called framebuffer" |
| 13:12.41 | Z80-Boy | great, but doesn't imply that -F/dev/Xl makes it pause |
| 13:13.00 | Z80-Boy | The environ- ment variable FB_FILE specifies the current framebuffer, see brlcad(1). |
| 13:13.18 | brlcad | no, "The environment variable FB_FILE specifies the current framebuffer, see brlcad(1)." |
| 13:13.22 | Z80-Boy | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man/ man 1 brlcad |
| 13:13.27 | Z80-Boy | man: no entry for brlcad in section 1 of the manual. |
| 13:13.30 | Z80-Boy | *lol* |
| 13:13.57 | ``Erik | comes up for me O.o |
| 13:14.04 | brlcad | comes up for me to |
| 13:14.19 | Z80-Boy | comes up if I omit the 1 |
| 13:15.09 | Z80-Boy | was I supposed to look into man brl-cad and search for something? |
| 13:15.30 | brlcad | how about FB_FILE |
| 13:16.14 | brlcad | or read it all given that's a pretty comprehensive manpage, you'd probably get a lot of useful bits out of it |
| 13:16.19 | Z80-Boy | says that I can set up somem "framebuffer" |
| 13:16.26 | brlcad | it is "the" brlcad manpage after all |
| 13:16.26 | Z80-Boy | but doesn't say that /dev/Xl will make it pause |
| 13:16.47 | Z80-Boy | "Xl" even doesn't occur anywhere in man brlcad |
| 13:16.57 | brlcad | dude, it explains the entire interface in detail, how it all works |
| 13:17.13 | Z80-Boy | Maybe, but doesn't say that Xl makes it pause |
| 13:17.41 | brlcad | sure, and it doesn't say a thousand other things that might be interesting either |
| 13:17.57 | brlcad | it doesn't tell you where you can drive the car, it tells you how to drive |
| 13:18.07 | Z80-Boy | No it doesn't tell anything |
| 13:18.28 | brlcad | you're really not reading it then |
| 13:18.34 | Z80-Boy | the FB_FILE section of man brlcad basically says that -F specifies a "framebuffer", and the framebuffer is in format [hostname:]/dev/device_name[num] |
| 13:18.36 | brlcad | and you certainly couldn't have read it all by now |
| 13:19.10 | Z80-Boy | man 3 libfb again doesn't work... |
| 13:19.15 | Z80-Boy | has to be specified without the 3 |
| 13:19.45 | ``Erik | (actually, I haven't found linger in the manpages... but it is in 'fbhelp', a couple release notes, and mged_cmd_index.html) |
| 13:19.46 | Z80-Boy | see end of man 3 libfb... |
| 13:19.52 | Z80-Boy | ENd of man 3 libfb is BUG REPORTS. |
| 13:19.53 | brlcad | works here, there's something not working right with your manual pages |
| 13:20.14 | Z80-Boy | proof? |
| 13:20.46 | brlcad | of what? |
| 13:20.54 | Z80-Boy | That something is not working right with my manual pages |
| 13:21.01 | Z80-Boy | The devices listed in man 3 libfb are: |
| 13:21.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/brlcad.1: remove the references to /m/cad |
| 13:21.04 | Z80-Boy | /dev/debug[num] |
| 13:21.12 | Z80-Boy | filename |
| 13:21.16 | Z80-Boy | /dev/ik[num][opt] |
| 13:21.23 | Z80-Boy | /dev/sgi[num] |
| 13:21.31 | Z80-Boy | /dev/rat |
| 13:21.35 | Z80-Boy | hostname:[devicename] |
| 13:21.42 | brlcad | i mean the fact that you can't use the number, that should work if it's standard 'man' |
| 13:21.44 | Z80-Boy | No mention of /dev/Xl |
| 13:22.16 | Z80-Boy | what's the definition of term "standard" in relation to implementations of the 'man' program? |
| 13:22.37 | Z80-Boy | standard per POSIX? SUS? some RFC? |
| 13:23.08 | brlcad | posix would generally be the one |
| 13:23.08 | ``Erik | the number works on my obsd install |
| 13:23.25 | Z80-Boy | On my too |
| 13:23.30 | Z80-Boy | man 3 printf work |
| 13:23.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.3: mention fbhelp in the SEE ALSO |
| 13:23.43 | Z80-Boy | It just doesn't work with MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man |
| 13:23.53 | ``Erik | using bash? |
| 13:24.06 | Z80-Boy | even MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 3 printf works |
| 13:24.15 | brlcad | do you have anything in /usr/brlcad/man ? |
| 13:24.30 | Z80-Boy | /usr/brlcad/man doesn't exist |
| 13:24.34 | Z80-Boy | only /usr/brlcad exists. |
| 13:25.20 | brlcad | and is there /usr/brlcad/share/man/man1/brlcad.1 ? |
| 13:25.30 | Z80-Boy | yes |
| 13:26.02 | brlcad | then man 1 brlcad should work, something particular about your setup |
| 13:26.24 | brlcad | there's nothing special about manpages, they're just put into numbered folders |
| 13:26.45 | brlcad | you add that base to your MANPATH, and it searches the numbered folders for the numbered file |
| 13:27.05 | Z80-Boy | Obviously, only sometimes. |
| 13:27.17 | ``Erik | hum, interesting |
| 13:27.35 | ``Erik | if I try overriding the path, it doesn't work, but if I append the path to the variable in the environment, it works |
| 13:27.50 | ``Erik | using ksh |
| 13:28.10 | ``Erik | obsd must have some fu to avoid 'suspicious' overrides :/ |
| 13:28.15 | brlcad | hm, that is wierd |
| 13:28.17 | Z80-Boy | fu == ? |
| 13:28.28 | brlcad | maybe doesn't allow overrides at all? |
| 13:28.46 | brlcad | what does this do: PATH=/ ls |
| 13:28.57 | ``Erik | it takes that one |
| 13:29.00 | brlcad | hum |
| 13:29.01 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~$ PATH=/ ls |
| 13:29.01 | ``Erik | ls not found |
| 13:29.01 | Z80-Boy | bash: ls: command not found |
| 13:29.35 | brlcad | and MANPATH=/ man man ? |
| 13:29.48 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~$ MANPATH=/ man man |
| 13:29.48 | Z80-Boy | man: no entry for man in the manual. |
| 13:30.32 | brlcad | well, that's right too .. |
| 13:31.00 | Z80-Boy | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man n brlcad works |
| 13:31.08 | Z80-Boy | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man brlcad |
| 13:31.23 | Z80-Boy | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 1 brlcad doesn't |
| 13:31.25 | Z80-Boy | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 3 brlcad doesn't |
| 13:31.26 | Z80-Boy | MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 5 brlcad doesn't |
| 13:31.43 | Z80-Boy | -> conclusion: the brlcad manpage must be in section "n" and not section 3, as erroneously stated |
| 13:32.49 | Z80-Boy | man brlcad says (3), it works when the section is specified as "n", and the brlcad.1 file is actually in the "man1" directory |
| 13:33.39 | Z80-Boy | it also works then the section is specified as "10", "19", "m" or "z". |
| 13:34.22 | brlcad | it's a section 1 header |
| 13:34.53 | brlcad | the fact that is shows up in n implies something else is going on, maybe a declaration missing in the file that it wants to see |
| 13:35.14 | brlcad | the TH is section one in the file |
| 13:35.15 | brlcad | .TH BRLCAD 1 BRL-CAD |
| 13:36.27 | brlcad | "man brlcad says (3)" .. where do you see that? |
| 13:37.13 | brlcad | the other specifications of "10", "19", "m" or "z" probably work because they're invalid and it finds it |
| 13:44.02 | ``Erik | mine says 1 on obsd |
| 13:44.24 | ``Erik | $ find /usr/brlcad -name brlcad.1 |
| 13:44.27 | ``Erik | /usr/brlcad/man/man1/brlcad.1 |
| 13:45.43 | brlcad | the fact that it came up for him in 'n' is interesting, I saw that many years ago on a configuration that I don't recall |
| 13:46.00 | brlcad | which man? |
| 13:46.34 | brlcad | i.e. file `which man` |
| 13:55.05 | brlcad | CIA-4: poke |
| 13:55.21 | ``Erik | kinky O.o |
| 13:55.46 | brlcad | probably overloaded again or something |
| 13:55.46 | brlcad | micah really should get that off his server |
| 13:56.08 | brlcad | such a flakey host with limited resources |
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| 14:06.53 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~$ file `which man` |
| 14:06.53 | Z80-Boy | /usr/bin/man: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1, for OpenBSD, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped |
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| 15:56.34 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
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| 16:30.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/win/makedefs: look for 8.5 |
| 16:32.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/ (pkgIndex.tcl.in pkgIndex.tcl): retemplatize pkgIndex.tcl so that the appropriate paths are searched for the blt library, include the source directory in the search just in case we're running uninstalled. |
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| 16:34.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: the library is expected to be named libBLT with another that includes the dotless version as a suffix. |
| 16:35.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: expand BLT_LIBRARY so it can be used in the blt pkgIndex.tcl file, generate the pkgIndex.tcl file and resort the src/other output entries correctly |
| 16:42.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: ws |
| 17:44.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_comb.c: prefix mat_categorize with db_comb_ to kill an XXX, even though it's static |
| 17:47.06 | ``Erik | huh, that's... scary. |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 18:07.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: pass a pointer instead of copying the string to stack |
| 18:11.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor simplification |
| 18:52.39 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-71-215.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:59.25 | ``Erik | holy crap, |
| 19:01.43 | yukonbob | ?"v5" |
| 19:03.30 | ``Erik | .g version |
| 19:04.32 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: should I report to sourceforget that brlman doesn't work? |
| 19:08.20 | ``Erik | um, it works for me on obsd41 with cvs head... O.o I'm not sure what's going on with your bo |
| 19:08.21 | ``Erik | x |
| 19:20.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: a mostly-functional v5 copy_v5_comb |
| 19:53.02 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 20:33.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: some move to bu_vls strings |
| 20:41.03 | brlcad | ``Erik: shouldn't access vls_str directly, go through bu_vls_addr() |
| 20:41.49 | brlcad | vls_str isn't necessarily the string, it is optionally offset too depending on what vls operations you call |
| 20:42.01 | brlcad | addr gives you the char* |
| 20:49.43 | ``Erik | okie, didn't know O.o parse.c uses direct access extensively |
| 20:51.50 | *** join/#brlcad cad93 (n=14844523@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:52.49 | starseeker | brlcad: Thanks for adding me to the credits list :-) |
| 20:52.53 | brlcad | probably performance optimization |
| 20:53.06 | brlcad | starseeker: hey, you're the one doing the hard work :) |
| 20:53.36 | starseeker | Hehe - not so hard (yet), more like long distance running |
| 20:55.24 | yukonbob | brlcad: did you tell cvs to let me commit? |
| 20:55.32 | starseeker | yukonbob: He did |
| 20:55.36 | yukonbob | nice |
| 20:55.58 | starseeker | I think you left before he let you know |
| 20:56.34 | ``Erik | yukonbob == brad harder? |
| 20:56.42 | yukonbob | indeed |
| 20:56.45 | ``Erik | coo' |
| 20:57.00 | ``Erik | yeah, you're listed as 'content management' |
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| 00:39.04 | yukonbob | CIA-4: up-and-running? |
| 00:40.13 | yukonbob | starseeker: we're going to have to talk (maybe w/ brlcad) how we want to organize images. |
| 00:51.40 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 01:07.00 | brlcad | yukonbob: nice! |
| 01:07.28 | brlcad | seems to be getting stuck a lot today |
| 01:12.09 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 01:19.49 | yukonbob | brlcad: thx -- I'm pretty happy w/ it -- now i need to clean references (ie: remove "hard notes" and make a proper bibliograpy) and cleanup the title page/authors/dedications, etc... otherwise, I bet (and hope) it's only minor issues that we'll want to fix. |
| 01:21.04 | yukonbob | ...and fix images. |
| 01:21.46 | yukonbob | but I've got references in all the right places to grab what's necessary once I have copies of the proper images. |
| 01:24.13 | yukonbob | brlcad: how do you build docbook XML -> pdf? I use openjade/jadetex/dvipdf -- if you run a diff't setup, I'd be curious to see the resultant pdf. (test_img.ps is a random 236x200 img) |
| 01:24.52 | starseeker | brlcad - very nice!! |
| 01:24.56 | starseeker | er yukonbob |
| 01:25.39 | yukonbob | :) |
| 01:26.33 | yukonbob | regarding images -- I guess we could just create an "img" directory and pull from that? Unless it's going to be too problematic pulling all the images from a single dir... but I doubt it will be... comments? |
| 01:28.03 | starseeker | I think that makes sense - I would like to have some kind of sensible naming convention for images, but that's probably not possible until the final organization is done |
| 01:28.20 | starseeker | brlcad had some ideas about how he wanted to re-org things, but we're a ways from that |
| 01:36.23 | brlcad | yeah, dealing with images is always a stickler, no matter the format |
| 01:37.17 | brlcad | inclination would be a global 'images' directory, though per-dir images or just putting images in the dir with their respective xml could work too |
| 01:37.59 | brlcad | it gets trickier when you want to reuse images in multiple places, assuming some sort of hierarchical organization to the documentation, with data in multiple places |
| 01:39.01 | brlcad | thinking of them as source files helps, you often just end up with a data resources directory where the images and other "loaded" resources are kept that the source files refer to (which are docbook files in this case, global entity refs) |
| 01:42.26 | yukonbob | ...or just a single global img dir, as I think about it... |
| 01:42.51 | brlcad | hm, I'd rather shove the non-production stuff into the website -- the holy grail would be to get mediawiki to docbook working as well as docbook to mediawiki so files could be edited either on the wiki or directly, and have the changes tracked and propagated |
| 01:43.21 | brlcad | other files will grow the source tarballs exceptionally fast, as well as the revision root files |
| 01:43.44 | yukonbob | makes sense -- in that case, everything in the repos. will be "production". |
| 01:44.00 | brlcad | we used to have the pdfs in cvs before going open source, with many revisions of each.. well over a gb of relatively "useless" data |
| 01:44.19 | starseeker | ouch |
| 01:44.52 | brlcad | starseeker: I think at least for now, wiki spam woes aren't really a concern |
| 01:45.04 | starseeker | OK :-) |
| 01:45.31 | brlcad | the measures we have in place in bz have worked exceptionally well (like one incident a month at best), and that gets massive exposure |
| 01:45.41 | starseeker | Very nice! |
| 01:46.02 | starseeker | we should probably look at that - the measures Bill ultimately put in place on Axiom have proved rather unfriendly |
| 01:46.05 | brlcad | we used to have major major problems, but after trying a dozen different things, we seem to have it sorted out |
| 01:46.14 | starseeker | cool |
| 01:46.21 | brlcad | we even were able to retain anonymous edits |
| 01:46.33 | yukonbob | ! |
| 01:47.25 | brlcad | recaptcha alone did wonders to thwart almost all of the automated stuff, though there's also a blacklisting in place as well as a few other measures |
| 01:47.44 | yukonbob | good to know... |
| 01:48.26 | brlcad | we'd gone through about 5 captcha systems before it, all useless |
| 01:48.57 | brlcad | even having people answer questions while helpful, didn't mitigate everything |
| 01:49.22 | brlcad | yukonbob: sure .. the difference is about 2 billion dollars a year ;-) |
| 01:49.43 | starseeker | Cool! I saw the recaptcha thing go by on slashdot, and it sounded like a really good idea |
| 01:50.11 | brlcad | not only is the idea good, the captcha itself that they use is pretty much one of the best so far |
| 01:50.28 | brlcad | could just be a matter of time for someone to reliably "crack it" |
| 01:51.06 | starseeker | Well, at the very least it will force someone to invent some really good OCR algorithms ;-) |
| 01:52.40 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: solidworks -- is that about it? /me sees buzzwords like "parametric feature-based" -- is it basically that they handle edits a bit different? |
| 01:57.17 | yukonbob | I guess that's another difference between solidworks and brlcad |
| 01:59.33 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 02:00.15 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/xsystem.png :) |
| 02:00.16 | brlcad | solidworks is one of the "big four" (unigraphics/nx, catia, solidworks, and pro/engineer) solid modeling systems, all 1bn+ gross revenue businesses |
| 02:00.16 | starseeker | Humph - correct me if I'm wrong, but did they just patent sub-component searching of data objects? http://www.google.com/patents?id=L6B6AAAAEBAJ&dq=Solidworks |
| 02:00.46 | IriX64 | sorry |
| 02:00.49 | brlcad | cumulatively, those four are about the domain of autodesk/autocad |
| 02:01.04 | brlcad | just focusing in the drafting and 2d design sectors |
| 02:01.44 | yukonbob | IriX64: show us the models _you_ make :) |
| 02:01.47 | brlcad | yukonbob: there are plenty of other differences, the biggest is probably the support for parametric surfaces and feature edits |
| 02:02.21 | IriX64 | yukonbob: you would cower in fear at the sight ;) |
| 02:02.49 | yukonbob | brlcad: /me doesn't even know defintion of parametric, but any kinds of edits are w/i the realm of brl-cad... |
| 02:03.05 | brlcad | parametric surfaces very closely relate to having brep spline surface support, something we're just now getting added -- with several manyears of effort invested, there's still a LOT to do |
| 02:03.48 | yukonbob | ?tough science (ie: seperate from implementing in code) |
| 02:03.52 | brlcad | right now, i'm just talking about fundamental representation support, what that turns into with respect to a GUI and generalized editing user interface is yet another level of work and complexity on top of the representation |
| 02:04.25 | brlcad | some of it is exceptionally hard (mathematically and algorithmic), some of it is grunt coding ;) |
| 02:04.42 | starseeker | ooo - math :-) |
| 02:05.26 | starseeker | Trimmed NURBs? |
| 02:05.50 | brlcad | even with some of the best education and experience, some of the implementation details are simply trade secrets that aren't readily published or available in quality formats, so you are basically doing computer graphics research just to get things working |
| 02:06.10 | starseeker | Indeed. |
| 02:07.07 | starseeker | brlcad; Is this a reasonable introduction to some of the surface representation ideas? http://iit-iti.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/iit-publications-iti/docs/NRC-45828.pdf |
| 02:08.35 | brlcad | the other "difference" that largely stems from the size and complexity of the domain is that you can mean so many things when you say CAD (from 2D to 3D to 4D to parametric to implicit to explicit to drafting, machining, manufacturing, analysis, designing, and then some) .. the needs are so vast that the tools generally are written to be this massive bag of tricks with relatively complex interfaces that take a while to learn |
| 02:09.04 | brlcad | mged's really no more complex to learn, it just beats you up during the process on top of all you're trying to learn :) |
| 02:09.50 | starseeker | separates the men from the boys ;-) |
| 02:10.02 | starseeker | (or women from the girls as the case may be...) |
| 02:10.12 | brlcad | yukonbob: I don't mind it either, but then it generally only beats you once .. once you know, you know and it's efficient ;) |
| 02:10.58 | brlcad | i do mind that it's hard for some folks that really do try to learn it, but then fail to find the information they need -- you have to really look at the source code or find an existing expert |
| 02:11.09 | yukonbob | brlcad: indeed -- it does what's necessary (reads a line of input) and gets out of the way ;) |
| 02:11.48 | brlcad | starseeker: not really, that's just a paper on tessellating nurbs surfaces -- a good one, but not as an overview of surface representations |
| 02:12.03 | yukonbob | well, this documentation rewrite will hopefully get the docs "out there" more, and the new website might spawn a new community, faq, wiki, etc. |
| 02:12.29 | starseeker | brlcad: Ah. Are there good "standard" introductory papers on the topic? |
| 02:12.32 | brlcad | I've got some really great pictures that show some of the basic differences that I've prepared for various presentations that work pretty well for explaining it -- I'll see if I have release authority on them next week |
| 02:12.40 | starseeker | cool :-) |
| 02:13.30 | brlcad | that tessellation of nurbs surfaces is actually one of the critical steps needed for fully multi-rep systems ... :) |
| 02:14.16 | brlcad | now that we have the structure working with ray-tracing (minus some acne issues), the next step is tessellation, CSG evaluation of NURBS, and then implicit to BREP conversions |
| 02:14.32 | yukonbob | starseeker: brlcad and I were discussing shooting rays and how alien lasers could be modelled on earth equip to see strength/weaknesses |
| 02:15.21 | brlcad | to give you an idea of what that translates to in code, that paper basically boils down to the guts implementation of src/librt/g_brep.cpp's rt_brep_tess() function |
| 02:15.37 | brlcad | which presently just returns -1 ;) |
| 02:15.42 | starseeker | LOL |
| 02:15.51 | yukonbob | ?not 42 |
| 02:16.19 | IriX64 | thats only half the answer the whole answer is 84 |
| 02:16.24 | IriX64 | :) |
| 02:16.49 | starseeker | (digest-paper 'NRC-45828) -> -1 Error: paper contains nothing useful ;-) |
| 02:16.54 | yukonbob | IriX64: show us some models!! |
| 02:16.57 | brlcad | there are actually a handful of instances of 42 in the sources ;) |
| 02:17.45 | brlcad | IriX64: did you ever get Jamie to attach the brl-cad headers to that hex.c program? |
| 02:18.40 | starseeker | yukonbob: I'd have to say lasers are cool, but in atmosphere I'd vote for the mini-railgun on a tank :-) |
| 02:18.50 | brlcad | if you're working on something here and run across a paper that isn't free that you need, just lemme know |
| 02:19.04 | starseeker | brlcad: Thanks! |
| 02:19.22 | starseeker | Is there a "global CAD bibliography" in the brlcad tree somewhere? |
| 02:20.43 | brlcad | i've started one offline, but no not really |
| 02:21.11 | brlcad | that was one of the things for the new website, I've got a few dozen publications that refer to, use, or relate to BRL-CAD that are relevant |
| 02:21.21 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 02:23.50 | brlcad | there's a mini bibliography in the AUTHORS file .. that really doesn't belong there, but has a few items |
| 02:24.00 | brlcad | at the end |
| 02:25.47 | starseeker | OK :-) |
| 02:27.41 | starseeker | brlcad: Has anyone in the BRL-CAD project ever looked at the VTK toolkit? |
| 02:28.26 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 02:28.41 | brlcad | pretty heavily for a while |
| 02:29.11 | brlcad | http://ogigi.polsl.pl/biuletyny/zeszyt_14/z14cz3_6.pdf isn't too shabby, it at least mentions many of the formats and issues albeit a bit biased |
| 02:29.17 | starseeker | How bad is the impedance mismatch between the API of the toolkit and what brl-cad needs? |
| 02:29.33 | brlcad | volumetric, parametric, implicit, explicit, brep, and nurbs at a glance |
| 02:30.09 | starseeker | Cool - thanks! |
| 02:32.33 | brlcad | ah, almost forgot about mike's old writeup -- http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/90nmg/joined.html |
| 02:33.03 | starseeker | excellent! |
| 02:33.18 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, the question of interface and environments has been long-discussed and worked on |
| 02:33.32 | brlcad | particularly for building a new interactive modeler |
| 02:34.15 | brlcad | the brief summary is that all the non-commercial options we're stuck with pretty much are all inadequate or outright suck to various degrees of suckage :) |
| 02:34.16 | starseeker | Did a consensus emerge? |
| 02:34.22 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 02:34.31 | starseeker | even VTK? nuts |
| 02:34.42 | brlcad | there are some workable options, a handful really |
| 02:35.34 | brlcad | VTK has some very nice aspects, and several downsides |
| 02:36.23 | brlcad | part of it (and not to their faulting) is that the biggest issue/debate is really that of the user interface itself, for which VTK doesn't really directly address |
| 02:37.08 | starseeker | Ah |
| 02:39.10 | starseeker | No wonder Paraview isn't much help then - it is solving a different UI problem (or maybe a small subset of it, depending) |
| 02:39.32 | brlcad | there's your windowing environment (think difference between windowed and full-screen), the graphics context (think opengl and quartz and framebuffers), the GUI elements (think gtk/qt, wxwidgets, cegui, blenderui, etc), and the UI methodologies (think modalities, MDI, custom behaviors, etc) |
| 02:39.56 | starseeker | Ah yes. |
| 02:40.23 | brlcad | VTK is fairly situated around the graphics context layer only |
| 02:40.28 | starseeker | right |
| 02:40.58 | starseeker | the GUI elements are probably the biggest issue, particularly given the portability ambitions of BRL-CAD... |
| 02:41.13 | brlcad | something like SDL does windowing, context, and some minor UI methodology |
| 02:41.47 | starseeker | The only library I've ever seen that attempted to paper over ALL GUI element environments was the Lisp CLIM project, which isn't mature and is in the wrong language anyway... |
| 02:42.26 | brlcad | it's not that you want something that does them all, but it's good to recognize what pieces are still missing and what problems are being solved |
| 02:42.44 | brlcad | the first two are fairly easy to get set up and are rarely a bottleneck unless you mess something up big |
| 02:43.03 | brlcad | VTK becomes a pressing need when the context is the bottleneck |
| 02:43.19 | brlcad | or something like it, as it deals with the data management aspects well |
| 02:43.25 | starseeker | OK. |
| 02:43.26 | brlcad | as does something like OpenSceneGraph |
| 02:44.05 | brlcad | OGRE is in a similar boat but then of course being a render engine has nothing to do with GUI so you still need a GUI toolkit |
| 02:45.18 | starseeker | IIRC Blender sidestepped the UI kit by writing their own in GL or some such? |
| 02:45.24 | brlcad | deciding on your UI methodologies is a tricky (religious) topic but is at least something we can probably pin down in our domain |
| 02:45.40 | brlcad | yes, they wrote their own UI toolkit |
| 02:45.45 | starseeker | ouch |
| 02:45.47 | brlcad | which has been both a major blessing and major curse :) |
| 02:46.37 | starseeker | As for MDI related issues - isn't that something that can ultimately be user configurable if the right design decisions are made? (The Gimp non-withstanding...) |
| 02:46.40 | brlcad | it kept them really agile in the early days, and made for a nice scalable opengl interface that looks the same everywhere |
| 02:47.03 | brlcad | sometimes it can, sometimes it's pretty fundamental |
| 02:47.12 | starseeker | Hmm. |
| 02:47.33 | brlcad | e.g. mged is pretty heavily multi-windowed .. some of the major windows can be combined but there are still a slew of independent dialogs and tool panels |
| 02:47.50 | starseeker | True |
| 02:47.53 | brlcad | that was a design decision for better or worse that impacts the usability, feel, and appeal |
| 02:48.25 | brlcad | solidworks is pretty much a one-window interface with most of the content interlayed into the 3D scene |
| 02:49.14 | starseeker | Sounds like something a workflow analysis would be good for |
| 02:49.20 | brlcad | unigraphics is totally different (and probably one of the best at being modeless) |
| 02:50.36 | starseeker | Wow. |
| 02:51.21 | brlcad | In designing the new interface for our modeler, I've always had a particular vision of configurable usability that I think is a good blend of some of the best ideas out there, taking a key from probably the most successful interface makers in the industry |
| 02:52.45 | brlcad | WWAGD .. "what would a game do" .. the gaming industry has by far put the most research and iteration redesign into effective interfaces over the last decade |
| 02:53.06 | starseeker | that's a point, definitely |
| 02:53.13 | brlcad | they have to grab the users attention, teach them sometimes utterly complex interfaces and do so quickly and make them actually enjoy it |
| 02:54.42 | brlcad | that single approach alone drives a lot of the decisions of what I've had in mind, something that makes CAD appealing, that is straightforward to code with regards to design decisions, and is outright enjoyable |
| 02:54.54 | brlcad | without actually making it a game of course :) |
| 02:55.16 | starseeker | hehe |
| 02:55.17 | yukonbob | no flight-sim easter egg? |
| 02:55.22 | brlcad | mebbie :) |
| 02:55.37 | brlcad | a tank sim would be more apropriate given our history :) |
| 02:55.54 | starseeker | when the newbie crashes, BRL-CAD would take them through a crash simulation in full detail ;-) |
| 02:56.22 | starseeker | BZflag - now with solid model damage simulation |
| 02:56.49 | brlcad | that's not far from what we do already in the analysis domain ;) |
| 02:57.08 | yukonbob | embed bzflag... |
| 02:57.17 | brlcad | (with the analysis codes hooking into brl-cad for geometry interrogation and representation) |
| 02:57.39 | starseeker | neat |
| 03:01.55 | yukonbob | chat later, starseeker |
| 03:05.55 | brlcad | cya |
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| 05:55.28 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: coverity -- do I talk to you to talk to coverity for access to their analysis? |
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| 15:36.49 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:37.41 | ``Erik | heh, 3.5 years ago, a modified version of bzflag using BRL-CAD models and real vulnerability code was seriously discussed O.o |
| 15:44.08 | santorum | bzflag is a game somehow connected to BRL-CAD? |
| 15:46.40 | minute | In a very convoluted way, yes. |
| 15:49.33 | ``Erik | brlcad is a major developer on both |
| 15:50.11 | ``Erik | and BRL-CAD was/is primarily developed (on tax dollars, anyways) for doing simulations on army armored vehicles... :) like, y'know, tanks, 'n stuff |
| 15:50.49 | santorum | and to make models of Ronja |
| 15:51.01 | santorum | at least the tax money are used in a partially useful way |
| 15:53.30 | ``Erik | meh, the funding avenue that BRL-CAD is part of saves metric assloads of money, and I think BRL-CAD is one of the most useful bits of the pipeline... *shrug* one of the least fucked up, anyways :D I mean, c'mon, free to the world! |
| 15:54.09 | ``Erik | probably the second most used thing I have a commit bit for (OpenAL is probably more used) |
| 15:54.44 | ``Erik | <-- still hasn't gotten a fbsd bit :D |
| 15:56.48 | santorum | we're still waiting for open source nukes... |
| 15:57.38 | santorum | he, surfers! Why read all those weather charts? Download our open source nuke manual, put together couple of them in your garage, dump them into the sea, shoot and you'll have great waves! |
| 16:01.08 | santorum | How programming works: |
| 16:01.10 | Maloeran | Ouch. Perhaps if you want to surf with a whole aircraft carrier |
| 16:01.12 | santorum | 1) start with empty program |
| 16:01.22 | santorum | 2) debug until you have desired functionality properly working |
| 16:01.48 | santorum | but the tubes must be impressive |
| 16:04.30 | archivist | going to need a tsunami for that |
| 16:05.06 | santorum | actually have you heard about solitons? |
| 16:05.30 | Maloeran | Some kind of stable wave? |
| 16:05.34 | santorum | yes |
| 16:05.49 | santorum | they found it when a large boat abruptly stopped in a narrow canal in England |
| 16:05.58 | santorum | and that created a wave that smoothly ran along the canal |
| 16:06.11 | santorum | wihtout actually undulating, falling apart or anything like that |
| 16:06.17 | santorum | diminishing only very slowly |
| 16:06.34 | Maloeran | There must still be some serious loss of energy due to viscosity |
| 16:06.42 | santorum | Do you think these solitons could be made easily surfable? |
| 16:06.43 | archivist | traveling behind a ship on a canal is fun |
| 16:07.09 | santorum | cause one could take some old railway tunnel, fill it with water and send solitons down the tunnel |
| 16:07.14 | santorum | it would be like a winter surf park :) |
| 16:07.24 | Maloeran | By the dynamics involved in a surf wave, I would say there's a big loss of kinetic energy there, I don't think it could be very stable |
| 16:07.50 | santorum | what about making it high but just before it starts making whitewater? |
| 16:07.53 | archivist | surfer takes the energy out |
| 16:07.54 | santorum | So it runs smoothly |
| 16:08.05 | santorum | sure |
| 16:09.06 | ``Erik | them crew boys are odd http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:14316 |
| 16:11.33 | ``Erik | almost as odd as canucks http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:15608 |
| 16:11.34 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:12.21 | santorum | http://www.vcharkarn.com/vphysics/pictures/A273p1x1.jpg |
| 16:12.24 | archivist | http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive10/2005-09-06_motorcycleass.html |
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| 16:28.16 | brlcad | yukonbob: yes, I've talked to the coverity folks |
| 16:28.45 | brlcad | they actually set us up with a free scan a few months ago.. the scan was only partial though as something in their setup failed -- it's not been updated/changed since |
| 16:28.57 | brlcad | I pinged them on the status a few weeks ago, but have yet to hear a response yet |
| 16:31.04 | brlcad | santorum: working on bzflag is one of my other passions, I'm one of the core devs, leading contributor, project admin, yada yada .. good stuff. it's a nice diversion and different style of coding environment (with exceptionally different user base of course) |
| 16:49.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: use RT_LIBS since we need libbu and other libs that are missing. hopefully helps with unresolved symbols on ubuntu, but there's probably more cases like this that need fixing. |
| 16:55.03 | yukonbob | brlcad: cool -- I'd be interested in reviewing the brl-cad code as marked by coverity once you hear back from them... |
| 16:58.18 | ``Erik | heh, join the club :) until then, use shtuff like 'flawfinder' |
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| 16:59.42 | minute | brlcad: The pdfs, are they all going to be transfered to some over format then archived somewhere other than the wiki (i.e. deleted from the wiki) or will they always remain on the wiki and the other format offered by default? |
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| 18:24.58 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, I'm really curious to see what they find as well |
| 18:25.37 | brlcad | alas the partial they did do didn't even get to brl-cad sources, aborted early on in tcl/tk sources (they weren't ignoring src/other yet) |
| 18:26.25 | yukonbob | :P |
| 18:26.36 | brlcad | minute: good question, not sure I'd remove them from the wiki anytime soon |
| 18:26.58 | brlcad | if they were autogenerated nightly or something, then the wiki might be eventually updated to just point to the file instead of it actually being stored "in" the wiki |
| 18:27.15 | brlcad | like a standard brlcad.org/docs/ path or something |
| 18:33.48 | minute | brlcad: yeah |
| 18:34.11 | minute | sounds good |
| 18:48.29 | brlcad | we can cross that bridge when the docs are actually fully integrated into the build system and being auto-generated |
| 18:48.48 | brlcad | starseeker: with regards to toolchain, I think if you have a toolchain that works, then that's the one to start with |
| 18:48.59 | brlcad | jade seemed to be the best choice regardless |
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| 18:54.18 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/9N81gB57.html <--- this happening to anybody else? |
| 18:56.05 | IriX64 | rerunning with verbose |
| 19:06.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: don't assume that stdout isn't being used, bu_log will likely someday be changed to log to out instead of err |
| 19:07.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: do the same on windows, don't close our output channels |
| 19:12.25 | brlcad | IriX64: did you ever get Jamie to attach the brl-cad headers to that hex.c program? |
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| 19:12.45 | IriX64 | I was never asked |
| 19:12.56 | IriX64 | but ill pass that on |
| 19:13.12 | IriX64 | he says you do it. |
| 19:13.35 | brlcad | I can't, it's a legality matter |
| 19:13.48 | IriX64 | what should he put in |
| 19:14.01 | IriX64 | he's listening |
| 19:14.35 | IriX64 | is it in read.me? |
| 19:21.24 | IriX64 | shot myself in the foot, mea culpa :( |
| 19:37.48 | brlcad | sorry, someone stopped by |
| 19:37.53 | brlcad | see the header on any of the existing files |
| 19:38.07 | IriX64 | sure |
| 19:38.13 | brlcad | or run the sh/header.sh script |
| 19:38.20 | brlcad | that'll attach the header automatically |
| 19:38.24 | IriX64 | even better |
| 19:38.41 | IriX64 | when he does it ill post it |
| 19:38.46 | brlcad | cool |
| 19:39.02 | brlcad | please be sure to have him put his full name in there as the Author |
| 19:39.10 | IriX64 | right |
| 19:39.13 | brlcad | so he can be attributed correctly |
| 19:40.50 | brlcad | typing this on the fly, but this should be an example: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c |
| 19:42.10 | brlcad | ah, here we go: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c |
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| 19:52.32 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 20:47.05 | starseeker | brlcad: OK, sounds good - yukonbob I think has had some success with the jade route |
| 20:53.04 | yukonbob | starseeker: indeed I have -- use that Makefile I sent you as a template... what kind of system are you trying to build on (ie: FreeBSD, Debian, Red Hat, Windows, MacOS X)... |
| 20:53.42 | starseeker | I'm not yet - I'm stubbornly trying to finish the markup to a valid state first ;-) Gentoo is my primary platform, so I already have jade installed |
| 20:55.26 | yukonbob | starseeker: you should consider incremental builds, so you can check to see if errors are cropping up along the way. If you need a hand retro-fitting the Makefile, or with managing the .xml file, drop a note... |
| 20:55.43 | starseeker | It's a good idea. |
| 20:56.17 | starseeker | I've just been "on a roll" and also trying to make it go faster by doing "type specific" formatting - e.g. getting all the informal tables at once |
| 20:56.49 | yukonbob | well, you know where to reach me if I can help :) |
| 20:57.18 | starseeker | Yep :-) Thanks! |
| 21:02.41 | starseeker | yukonbob: I can't recall offhand - does openjade require a TeX install? |
| 21:04.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: use FB_LIBS instead, pick up the other dependencies that are needed |
| 21:10.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_4d.c if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c if_sun.c if_wgl.c): |
| 21:10.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: BAM! .. lingering windows is now the default. it only took hundreds of |
| 21:10.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: complaints and 20 years of development. this change makes it the default for |
| 21:10.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: most of the existing active framebuffer interface types, also adding a \\t\ |
| 21:10.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: option to complement the existing \\l\ option to allow folks to obtain the |
| 21:10.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: previous behavior if needed. all this mode code really should be consolidated |
| 21:10.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: and made consistent, but that is a chore for another day. |
| 21:18.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: termio apparently needs TERMLIB (need to verify), and don't include the optional FB_LIBS since the Makefile.am takes care of it. optical does use/need librt; tclcad needs libfb |
| 21:19.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: lingering framebuffer windows are now the default |
| 21:24.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/.cvsignore: ignore generated pkgIndex.tcl |
| 21:24.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 10 dirs): |
| 21:24.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the libraries really need to libadd all of their requisite dependencies or there |
| 21:24.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: will be unresolved symbols on platforms; this isn't just a libtool issue |
| 21:24.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (libtool needs this info). this change will hopefully help the build on a few |
| 21:24.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: other platforms, though I suspect there are still a few obscure cases (with |
| 21:24.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: buggy libtool) where unresolved symbols might be encountered with dynamic/shared |
| 21:24.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: libadd libraries not getting carried through to the linker line for binaries. |
| 21:38.19 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:46.34 | louipc | This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft |
| 21:46.35 | louipc | lol |
| 21:59.56 | brlcad | heh, nice catch |
| 21:59.59 | brlcad | i didn't see that |
| 22:11.56 | archivist | the cheeky buggers managed a sqlserver google add on mysql's site once |
| 22:17.45 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:28.19 | Maloeran | I'm a bit surprised by all the advertisement from Microsoft on SF, I thought they would be a bit more picky about the ads they accept |
| 22:36.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 10. |
| 22:39.00 | starseeker | Maloeran: Hey, if they want to fund the opposition who are we to object? ;-) |
| 22:39.41 | louipc | it's like trying to sell wheelchairs to able bodied people |
| 22:40.00 | starseeker | Pretty much ;-) |
| 22:40.29 | starseeker | I was a bit surprised to see Microsoft advertising there though |
| 22:41.06 | louipc | yeap |
| 22:41.51 | starseeker | crud, shopping list |
| 22:42.16 | starseeker | back into the maelstrom... |
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| 00:20.44 | IriX64 | why am I missing the lib that has XParseColor in it :( |
| 00:22.13 | IriX64 | have the H file but not the lib |
| 00:22.45 | Maloeran | Are you linking against libX11 ? |
| 00:22.52 | IriX64 | and bwish wants it sigh |
| 00:22.54 | IriX64 | yes |
| 00:23.15 | Maloeran | grep XParseColor /usr/lib/lib* |
| 00:23.23 | IriX64 | did nor there |
| 00:23.26 | IriX64 | not |
| 00:23.36 | IriX64 | oh wait |
| 00:23.59 | Maloeran | Compile with -lX11 , you really should have it |
| 00:25.09 | IriX64 | nothing in usr lib, i found the h in usr/X11R6 |
| 00:27.02 | IriX64 | ill try reinstalling x11 |
| 00:32.11 | IriX64 | heh or maybe ill force a link :) |
| 00:40.00 | ``Erik | if you can't find it in /usr/lib (or /lib, should be a link on cyggy), it won't link no matter what you do... |
| 01:02.57 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/dnNdbM40.html <--- moving on whats this? |
| 01:34.30 | ``Erik | heh, looks like you pulled one of brlcad's gimpy mutilations to cope with broken libtools :D libbu is being linked twice |
| 01:40.17 | IriX64 | thanks :) |
| 01:41.11 | IriX64 | it happened again in remrt, same reason i presume :D |
| 01:43.14 | IriX64 | btw, mged uses that XParseColor thing too :( |
| 01:43.21 | brlcad | that's not what that is, it's saying there are two in two separate files |
| 01:43.51 | IriX64 | heh ``Erik spoke, I shut up :) |
| 01:44.19 | brlcad | and there actually are two bu_bomb() functions -- intentionally |
| 01:44.40 | IriX64 | why not just use the libbu one? |
| 01:44.51 | brlcad | what is odd is that it's erroring out on you instead of letting the one outscope the other like it normally does |
| 01:45.18 | IriX64 | man multiples are not allowed |
| 01:46.01 | brlcad | because lgt captures various call events (like bu_bomb) and does its own thing (namely in this instance flushes an image buffer |
| 01:46.33 | IriX64 | then it shouldnt be called the same |
| 01:47.00 | brlcad | it actually overrides the calls in routines that it doesn't have access to that you wouldn't want to rename |
| 01:47.08 | IriX64 | specially if your linking gainst a lib that has it already :) |
| 01:47.10 | brlcad | so it sorta needs to be called the same |
| 01:47.41 | brlcad | the real question is still why specifically is it error'ing |
| 01:48.03 | IriX64 | my compiler doesn't allow multiple definitions |
| 01:48.14 | brlcad | dude, you have no idea why it's happening |
| 01:48.15 | IriX64 | you can tell it to tho and i did |
| 01:48.22 | brlcad | you're just reading the message |
| 01:48.32 | IriX64 | ok |
| 01:48.44 | brlcad | that doesn't mean there isn't an option that allows it |
| 01:49.02 | IriX64 | see above |
| 01:49.10 | brlcad | or even that something else isn't provoking the error like a declaration mismatch |
| 01:49.37 | IriX64 | that would be reported seperatly |
| 01:49.48 | brlcad | not necessarily |
| 01:49.54 | IriX64 | redefinition of etc etc |
| 01:50.29 | brlcad | if it were redefined yes, but not if it was a mismatch |
| 01:50.39 | IriX64 | define mismatch |
| 01:50.47 | brlcad | one symbol's in a lib in an entirely separate compilation unit, and doesn't even necessarly pull in that header decl |
| 01:51.08 | IriX64 | don't understand |
| 01:51.30 | brlcad | I didn't really expect you to |
| 01:51.35 | IriX64 | ok |
| 01:52.41 | brlcad | this isn't really a productive conversation.. you can't debug that, and I don't have that environment set up to debug it for myself just yet |
| 01:53.16 | IriX64 | true |
| 01:53.26 | brlcad | last time I compiled on cygwin, it compiled fully and neither lgt nor bu_bomb() has changed since then |
| 01:53.41 | brlcad | so something else is still "up" and it just needs some dev attention |
| 01:53.59 | IriX64 | last time i compiled on cygwin nothing went right :) |
| 01:55.23 | brlcad | that seems to be usually the case, and will likely continue to be the case until someone that can trace through the issues has that environment set up |
| 01:55.51 | brlcad | I might be inclined to do that some weekend soon, but the website and other code matters are in line first |
| 01:56.02 | IriX64 | of course |
| 01:58.06 | brlcad | if you set up ssh access, I could be even more readily coerced to look into the build problems |
| 01:58.41 | IriX64 | ill think about it. |
| 02:09.50 | yukonbob | ?think about it -- the lead dev. is offering to fix your specific problem in the _actual_ problem environment |
| 02:15.47 | IriX64 | man this is a hobby for me |
| 02:23.37 | IriX64 | thats what i get for forcing a link, attach (nu|X) X =core dumped :) |
| 02:24.51 | IriX64 | well X is buggered here lets try ogl |
| 02:30.37 | IriX64 | i mean brlcad has better things to do with his time than babysit me yukonbob, thats all. |
| 02:31.12 | yukonbob | re: hobby -- so that means you don't mind if it doesn't work? |
| 02:31.21 | IriX64 | right :) |
| 02:31.33 | IriX64 | no production environment here |
| 02:31.37 | yukonbob | sounds like a frustrating hobby ;) |
| 02:31.45 | IriX64 | fun actually |
| 02:47.11 | louipc | haha |
| 02:56.48 | IriX64 | yukonbob, that also explains why there none of *my own models :) |
| 02:57.31 | IriX64 | brlcad gave me a paper moose, I didn't know where to begin |
| 02:57.46 | yukonbob | we're waiting... ;) Next havoc I see, I'm going to reach through the internet and take your modem away. |
| 02:58.03 | IriX64 | heh ill try cube ;) |
| 03:00.05 | IriX64 | meaning i'm just a block head :D |
| 03:14.56 | louipc | paper moose? |
| 03:21.22 | IriX64 | pix of one |
| 03:34.20 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:34.32 | IriX64 | sigh :) |
| 03:35.46 | IriX64 | wonder if BitchX is more stable, or apropro here :) |
| 03:54.36 | IriX64 | nite all |
| 04:15.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 04:15.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: nirt fails to report LOS and sometimes even hits on a BoT that is inverted or |
| 04:15.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: unoriented. most annoying is that just sometimes fails to report a hit while |
| 04:15.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: other times it just fails to report an LOS thickness, even though it does find a |
| 04:15.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: hit. |
| 04:20.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: formatting |
| 05:21.49 | yukonbob | starseeker: re: openjade -- I don't think openjade require any form of TeX, but jadetex probably will -- lemme see if I can see what the deps are on my 'puter here... |
| 05:23.10 | yukonbob | Information for openjade-1.3.2nb5: |
| 05:23.11 | yukonbob | Built using: |
| 05:23.11 | yukonbob | opensp-1.5.2 |
| 05:23.11 | yukonbob | xmlcatmgr-2.2nb1 |
| 05:23.27 | yukonbob | Information for tex-jadetex-3.13nb5: |
| 05:23.28 | yukonbob | Built using: |
| 05:23.28 | yukonbob | tex-hugelatex-2.0nb4 |
| 05:23.28 | yukonbob | teTeX-bin-3.0nb14 |
| 05:23.28 | yukonbob | digest-20070803 |
| 05:23.50 | yukonbob | ... if you're using portage, that should take care of everything, though... |
| 07:25.38 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 12:57.41 | ``Erik | bahhh |
| 13:20.15 | brlcad | hummmbug |
| 13:23.31 | ``Erik | ahhhhh bumhug </beavis> |
| 13:24.34 | ``Erik | radmind stomping /Library/Tcl/macports1.0 is getting irritating... not nearly as irritating as stomping the parallels drivers, though. |
| 13:26.45 | Z80-Boy | Hmm, brl-cad produces .pix files where suddenly the lower part of the file is brighter |
| 13:26.53 | Z80-Boy | rt produces, to be more precise |
| 13:27.35 | ``Erik | ah, filenames are no longer part of ChangeLog? that was probably the most strusfrating part about that file :D |
| 13:28.11 | ``Erik | clock: pix-png and post? |
| 13:28.53 | Z80-Boy | Sure that's gonna happen |
| 13:29.12 | Z80-Boy | I am just trying to figure out if it's accidentally not triggered by stopping the rendering and then restarting it again. |
| 13:30.00 | ``Erik | ahhhhh, heh |
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| 14:14.40 | Z80-Boy | Then it is caused by breaking the raytrace and restarting it. |
| 14:15.10 | Z80-Boy | And now I realized it doesn't go from top to bottom, but from bottom to top |
| 14:15.16 | brlcad | that's curious, although not entirely surprising |
| 14:15.21 | Z80-Boy | so after the break, it doesn't render lighter, but darker |
| 14:15.31 | Z80-Boy | but why? |
| 14:15.36 | brlcad | it will try to continue a raytrace from the point that it left off at if there's data already partially written |
| 14:16.09 | brlcad | so it's continuing where it left off at instead of starting over (which was a big deal when the images took hours) |
| 14:16.20 | Z80-Boy | Actually it's more complicated |
| 14:16.35 | Z80-Boy | The unbroken images are all "dark" (= black background) |
| 14:17.12 | brlcad | but apparently from what youit's not picking up where it left off at .. probably due to resetting the image gamma or something |
| 14:17.36 | brlcad | is this in a framebuffer or to a file that you see the banding? |
| 14:18.21 | brlcad | mmmm.. the dual quad cores are more than twice as fast as wopr cpu-wise |
| 14:18.58 | brlcad | although still exceptionally slower with I/O .. compiling still takes 5-10 minutes (where on the altix it takes just 2-4 minutes) |
| 14:20.12 | brlcad | getting a vgr of about 12000 for a 12-processor altix .. which seems a bit lower than I recall, but that's with all of the bells and whistles turned on |
| 14:20.55 | brlcad | not using intel compiler, thought .. that might be what I'm remembering being about 17000 |
| 14:21.30 | brlcad | new mac workstations are coming up at 26000 for me, though .. freaking sweet |
| 14:23.58 | Z80-Boy | into a .pix file |
| 14:24.14 | Z80-Boy | don't know how to reproduce yet |
| 14:24.31 | Z80-Boy | faster than running a compile for a week and rebooting the machine at random intervals |
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| 16:08.30 | *** part/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 17:34.20 | ``Erik | http://www.bah3.org/main/index.html is amusing |
| 17:35.18 | ``Erik | 4-6 miles in 60-90 minutes with several beer stops... I think Ic ould do that O.o |
| 17:40.09 | ``Erik | "a drinking club with a running problem" |
| 18:25.16 | brlcad | mmm.. tcl 8.4b1 is now (really) posted |
| 18:26.23 | ``Erik | 8.5b1 ? |
| 18:27.08 | brlcad | er, yeah |
| 18:32.18 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-72-172.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:32.54 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:33.03 | Z80-Boy | I found and analyzed the bug with "half of the picture bright" |
| 18:33.15 | Z80-Boy | It happens only when -c "set gamma=2.2" is present. |
| 18:33.26 | brlcad | i figured it was gamma-related |
| 18:33.36 | Z80-Boy | It loads the gamma-corrected values into a buffer, then gamma-corrects them again and spits them out |
| 18:33.47 | Z80-Boy | if you break it multiple times, you get a "gradient" effect |
| 18:33.49 | brlcad | so is it basically not setting/using the gamma or are exising new values being overcorrected? |
| 18:34.06 | Z80-Boy | overcorrected |
| 18:34.06 | brlcad | ah, so overcorrects |
| 18:34.32 | Z80-Boy | I think it should make sure the already computed values should be spitted out as they are |
| 18:34.44 | Z80-Boy | But worse what I saw in the source I wasn't happy |
| 18:35.09 | brlcad | we could also just get rid of all that "restart" code |
| 18:35.20 | Z80-Boy | 1) it seems to never output 0,0,0. That's wrong. If 0,0,0 is in the scene (real black), I want real black and no distorted picture in the form of deep blue! |
| 18:35.27 | ``Erik | brlcad: /opt/ is ignored by radmind, but macports installs some stuff to /Library/Tcl/macports1.0 which gets stomped... but the stuff I'm messing with pertains to nice levels and number of concurrent jobs... |
| 18:35.30 | Z80-Boy | 2) similarly it refused to output the background colour |
| 18:35.45 | Z80-Boy | 3) some kind of random noise seems to be added into the image and being bravely called "dithering" |
| 18:36.06 | Z80-Boy | Dithering is when you use spectral noise shaping - you need to use error distribution |
| 18:36.12 | Z80-Boy | This is just adding noise into signal |
| 18:36.37 | Z80-Boy | I am also not sure if the values are properly rounded after gamma correction |
| 18:36.59 | Z80-Boy | I wouldn't mind getting rid of the restart code |
| 18:37.08 | Z80-Boy | Since the idea of inband signalling is braindead |
| 18:37.25 | Z80-Boy | Either mark "empty pixels" by their position beyond the end of file |
| 18:37.33 | brlcad | outputting 0,0,1 goes into deep history and there's fairly good reasons for why it was done that way (regardless of whether there are other ways this could be achieved today) |
| 18:37.50 | ``Erik | it's one of those "nifty features for 20 year old machines, but causes ugly issues" type things :/ |
| 18:38.11 | Z80-Boy | What's the reason for not outputting 0,0,0? |
| 18:38.14 | brlcad | 0,0,1 can't really be changed until 8.0 |
| 18:38.26 | Z80-Boy | I always wondered why my videos are not on black background but on something dark |
| 18:38.26 | ``Erik | yeah, ti'd break the pix files :( |
| 18:38.41 | brlcad | it's break tons of stuff |
| 18:38.42 | Z80-Boy | What does it mean break pix files? |
| 18:38.47 | Z80-Boy | ZOMG |
| 18:38.53 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: there is no alpha channel |
| 18:39.00 | Z80-Boy | and? |
| 18:39.10 | ``Erik | is there a reason for 0x1 as black other than restart? |
| 18:39.22 | brlcad | the designated "background color" for which 0,0,1 is simply the default effectively acts like an alpha channel mask without requiring the additional bandwidth |
| 18:39.54 | ``Erik | the pix files are used in the distribution to verify correct results when running the benchmark suite... if we change the nacent 'black' color, we'll get many many 'off-by-one' errors :) |
| 18:40.11 | brlcad | that channel "mask" is used all over the place, particularly in the framebuffer library but in loads of the tools as well, for detecting background vs non-background |
| 18:40.40 | Z80-Boy | lol it's all a crappy inband signalling design |
| 18:40.46 | Z80-Boy | which actually corrupts the signal |
| 18:40.47 | ``Erik | heh, :( magic colors can induce error |
| 18:40.56 | Z80-Boy | sorry, your TV cannot show black, we used black as a special value |
| 18:41.13 | brlcad | that's why it's not black actually |
| 18:41.15 | Z80-Boy | PCX could encode black |
| 18:41.27 | brlcad | as black is frequently requested |
| 18:41.36 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: what value is it then? 0,0,1? |
| 18:41.39 | ``Erik | yes, but PCX kept a magic color, and you had to make sure you never tried to use that magic color for a legitimate pixel |
| 18:42.12 | ``Erik | (that and the 256 color palette, ick) |
| 18:42.25 | Z80-Boy | I think it could encode all possible value |
| 18:42.44 | ``Erik | and ugly rle that could blow up your image size significantly if you gave it unfriendly data, like a horizontal gradient... |
| 18:42.44 | Z80-Boy | if it had a RLE escape, then the RLE escape was encoded as double escape or something like that |
| 18:43.48 | Z80-Boy | The gamma correction is also calculated as a separate pow() for each pixel |
| 18:44.14 | Z80-Boy | 995328 pows for my frame... isn't that slowing down? |
| 18:44.23 | Z80-Boy | I did it with a 16-bit table in links. |
| 18:45.28 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: 0,0,1 is merely the *default* background color |
| 18:45.35 | brlcad | you can still output black |
| 18:45.39 | Z80-Boy | so the "empty value" is 0,0,1? |
| 18:45.44 | brlcad | or 0,0,1 if you like |
| 18:45.45 | Z80-Boy | And can I also output 0,0,1? |
| 18:46.05 | Z80-Boy | and can I output all possible colours with a single background colour setting? |
| 18:46.06 | brlcad | of course you can |
| 18:46.17 | Z80-Boy | then it's not what I thought it is |
| 18:46.30 | brlcad | are you just looking for something to bitch about because you misinterpreted something you read in the code? :) |
| 18:46.32 | Z80-Boy | But what is this piece of code then? |
| 18:46.33 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.33 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:46.33 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.03 | brlcad | make sure the *default* background color is never perfect black |
| 18:47.19 | Z80-Boy | but this is in view_pixel |
| 18:47.38 | Z80-Boy | r, g, b is actually the pixel value - the signal, the payload... |
| 18:47.50 | ``Erik | athat only happens if the ray never intersects, I think |
| 18:48.28 | Z80-Boy | no it happens if ap->a_user != 0 |
| 18:48.35 | brlcad | as for pow() .. show me a profile that shows that's a problem |
| 18:48.40 | Z80-Boy | and ap->a_user == 0 has comment "/* Shot missed the model, don't dither */" |
| 18:49.11 | brlcad | pow() is accurate, tables aren't necessarily -- and the raytrace is vastly dominated by the ray-tracing, not pixel operations |
| 18:49.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: accurate, but slow |
| 18:49.35 | brlcad | slow within a given context |
| 18:49.47 | ``Erik | pretty fast if you have optimization on certain chips |
| 18:49.50 | brlcad | if it's 0.3% of your computation time, who cares |
| 18:49.52 | Z80-Boy | but you're right, it mosly chokes on the threads |
| 18:50.02 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: which chips? |
| 18:50.19 | brlcad | i'll take accurate over fast any day if there's not an order of magnitude performance difference |
| 18:50.28 | ``Erik | like, uh, opterons, athlons, p4's, ... |
| 18:50.35 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ | |
| 18:50.52 | ``Erik | 3dnow and I think sse2+ have approximation fu on that? |
| 18:51.09 | ``Erik | and -ffast-math in gcc hopefully takes advantage of that |
| 18:51.24 | brlcad | either way, that's the whole point of profiling .. you're totally guessing as to the performance, speculative optimization is rarely useful |
| 18:51.27 | Z80-Boy | -fdodgy-math :) |
| 18:52.27 | brlcad | about as helpful as believing in the "gotos are bad" as an absolute -- they're bad in a given context but not always, same goes for just about every one absolute |
| 18:52.30 | ``Erik | yes, -ffast-math accepts some error in the name of speed... is also ignores a good bit of IEEE754/854, like appropriate handling of Inf and NaN |
| 18:52.45 | Z80-Boy | is there a standard in C saying how floats are cast into int, whether they are chopped down, up, or rounded? |
| 18:52.55 | ``Erik | not in C |
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| 18:53.07 | ``Erik | but there is in ieee754, and it's... skeery. |
| 18:53.09 | Z80-Boy | then why are you doing register int r=pow()? |
| 18:53.18 | Z80-Boy | shouldn't it be floor(pow()+0.5)? |
| 18:53.48 | Z80-Boy | that floor and 0.5 is inexpensive compared to that pow. |
| 18:53.53 | Maloeran | roundf() which is C99 |
| 18:53.57 | ``Erik | <-- uses floor(), too *shrug* |
| 18:54.36 | Z80-Boy | I always wondered why there are "flashes" in the Ronja video |
| 18:54.51 | Z80-Boy | It was because it takes so long to render I have to break it and then reboot |
| 18:54.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:54.59 | Z80-Boy | every time I broke it, I got a flash... |
| 18:55.15 | brlcad | probably just an oversight on the pow cast |
| 18:55.40 | brlcad | or just has never mattered sufficiently |
| 18:56.23 | Z80-Boy | it usually goes into YUV encoding anyway and that's such unbelievable crap that it can hide anything I guss |
| 18:57.22 | brlcad | I'd give you commit to make some of these changes, but you couldn't go breaking backwards compatibility so readily with things like the background color |
| 18:57.40 | Z80-Boy | no don't give me commit it's better if a knowledgeable person revides that first |
| 18:57.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:58.05 | Z80-Boy | I would quickly make a surfboard hut from your code |
| 18:58.12 | brlcad | it'd still be revised .. I'd envision several reverts too :) |
| 18:58.17 | ``Erik | well, feel free to use the 'patches' tracker, someone will review and comment on it ... eventually... |
| 18:58.30 | Z80-Boy | or I can patch it myself and keep it ;-) |
| 18:58.37 | brlcad | that you can |
| 18:58.51 | ``Erik | as long as the license is respected, it's all good :) |
| 18:58.51 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:59.00 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
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| 18:59.36 | Z80-Boy | I guess povray and other "competing" (not really ;-) ) systems don't do this in-band signalling data damage |
| 18:59.47 | Z80-Boy | btw povray is triangle-only? |
| 18:59.54 | ``Erik | no, povray is CSG with implicites |
| 19:00.02 | Z80-Boy | implicite== ? |
| 19:00.05 | ``Erik | but it outputs BMP iirc? |
| 19:00.09 | Z80-Boy | OMG |
| 19:00.17 | Z80-Boy | better than Microsoft Word, though |
| 19:00.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:00.34 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 19:00.37 | ``Erik | mwahahahhahahahaa |
| 19:00.48 | ``Erik | a raytracer that outputs to excel... with each 'pixel' being a colored cell :D |
| 19:00.54 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 19:00.56 | Z80-Boy | ex-cell |
| 19:01.40 | ``Erik | 'cept the moment you wnat more than, say, 80x25 renders, it crashes! |
| 19:01.53 | Z80-Boy | can BRL-CAD render into aalib? |
| 19:01.55 | ``Erik | also; white isn't really white, it's 100,000, or SUPER-white |
| 19:01.56 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 19:02.01 | Z80-Boy | or better libcaca? |
| 19:02.13 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: you mean the 77.1*85 stuff? |
| 19:02.16 | ``Erik | no, but you can pix-png and push that through something that talks aalib |
| 19:02.27 | ``Erik | yeah, z80, 65536 = 100000 |
| 19:02.29 | Z80-Boy | or play the video on aalib mplayer... |
| 19:02.38 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: where is the news? |
| 19:02.44 | ``Erik | erm, slashdot? |
| 19:02.54 | Z80-Boy | You know Windows Vista have to differ in something from XP - otherwise people wouldn't buy it |
| 19:03.06 | Z80-Boy | So they differ in the math - give BIGGER, BETTER results! |
| 19:03.09 | ``Erik | 65535 or 65536? O.o (and this was excel 2007, not windows) |
| 19:03.17 | Z80-Boy | With Vista, your company accounting will shine suddenly in black numbers! |
| 19:03.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: patch/suggestion from Z80-Boy, round the gamma-corrected values to the nearest int consistently using floor() |
| 19:03.27 | Z80-Boy | They don't have Excel yet in the kernel? |
| 19:03.38 | ``Erik | no difference to your vgr's, I presume? |
| 19:03.54 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: if you need clean signal data, have rt output floating point images instead |
| 19:04.05 | brlcad | that's probably as raw as it gets |
| 19:04.10 | Z80-Boy | raw meat |
| 19:04.19 | Z80-Boy | then I can get HDR lol |
| 19:04.23 | Z80-Boy | which format is that? |
| 19:04.24 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, 's/clock/Karel/g;s/Z80-Boy/Karel/g;s/whineybitch/Karel/g;s/...' |
| 19:04.27 | ``Erik | *cough* O:-) |
| 19:04.42 | brlcad | which format? |
| 19:04.46 | brlcad | it's raw floating point data |
| 19:04.49 | ``Erik | or, uh, 's/clock\|Z80-Boy\|whineybitch/Karel/g' |
| 19:04.55 | Z80-Boy | well pix is 8-bit, which format is floating point? |
| 19:05.21 | brlcad | double-precision floating point values, network ordered, iirc |
| 19:05.33 | Z80-Boy | into the output file? |
| 19:05.46 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804 <-- and that's enough to mkae it not crap? O.o |
| 19:06.27 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: maybe not anymore, after I "whined" ;-) |
| 19:06.40 | brlcad | manure makes excellent fertilizer |
| 19:06.54 | Z80-Boy | Does it mean the arbn mirroring bug is already fixed? |
| 19:07.33 | Z80-Boy | Being crap actually doesn't mean a project is bad |
| 19:07.54 | Z80-Boy | If the developers fix it, like in BRL-CAD they do very quickly, it doesn't matter |
| 19:08.04 | brlcad | the "problem" is that it's massive, so you don't have to look far to find an issue .. the rate of issues per lines of code isn't likely any more or less than most other projects |
| 19:08.12 | Z80-Boy | It booms? No prob, you "whine" or "bitch" (actually bugreport), they fix it, there we go... |
| 19:08.21 | Z80-Boy | massive and oldskool :) |
| 19:08.35 | brlcad | and just a lot of the issues .. really don't matter -- it's like making sure there are no cobwebs in the basement .. when you never/rarely ever go into the basement |
| 19:09.33 | brlcad | the last time someone needed "actual" gamma correction was a decade ago, and they were going to PAL, so it really didn't matter more than needing to make sure the colors were consistent in intensity |
| 19:09.36 | Z80-Boy | make ctags? |
| 19:09.48 | brlcad | make tags |
| 19:09.53 | Z80-Boy | well gamma correction is good to make sure you don't get Mach bands in 8-bit data |
| 19:09.59 | Z80-Boy | tags make etags which I don't use |
| 19:10.11 | brlcad | but you should be :) |
| 19:10.12 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you know the TV theory? |
| 19:10.16 | brlcad | etags are so much better |
| 19:10.21 | Z80-Boy | do they work in vim? |
| 19:10.34 | brlcad | like i said.. they're better, so of course not ;) |
| 19:10.40 | brlcad | actually I have no idea |
| 19:10.52 | brlcad | wouldn't be surprised either way if there was a vim module for it |
| 19:11.14 | brlcad | etags are just a lot better at tagging, fixed a lot of problems in ctags |
| 19:11.19 | Z80-Boy | could be |
| 19:11.27 | Z80-Boy | never tried etags actually |
| 19:11.37 | brlcad | even etags gets tons of things outright wrong in a code like brl-cad |
| 19:11.57 | Z80-Boy | no wonder |
| 19:12.25 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: do you still need/want the sleep option, now that you know how to linger a window? |
| 19:12.56 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: with the linger I have to right click |
| 19:13.06 | Z80-Boy | With sleep I don't need |
| 19:13.20 | Z80-Boy | it could be used in a slow-motion script so that people can check if their video doesn't contain any glitches |
| 19:13.23 | Z80-Boy | with -p 1 |
| 19:13.36 | Z80-Boy | When the patch is already here... |
| 19:13.51 | brlcad | i do too, just trying to see how useful |
| 19:14.10 | brlcad | can't be too much crap, it's just like 4 lines |
| 19:14.25 | Z80-Boy | max. 4 lines can be crappy |
| 19:14.31 | Z80-Boy | plus the manpage patch. |
| 19:14.40 | Z80-Boy | Outsider patches are mostly crap |
| 19:14.40 | brlcad | the bigger issue is that of feature creep consistency, if it's going to be added, it should probably be on all the tracers |
| 19:14.47 | Z80-Boy | L0CALZ 0NLY! |
| 19:15.18 | Z80-Boy | tracer == ? |
| 19:15.28 | Z80-Boy | well then don't add it |
| 19:15.29 | brlcad | ray-tracers |
| 19:15.42 | ``Erik | that's just opt.c, no? |
| 19:15.42 | Z80-Boy | is pix-fb a raytracer? |
| 19:15.43 | brlcad | the ones that output to framebuffer at least |
| 19:15.54 | ``Erik | no, pix-fb is a weirdassed converter O.o |
| 19:15.54 | Z80-Boy | Then better not add it |
| 19:16.03 | Z80-Boy | My patch was for pix-fb |
| 19:16.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: floating point files will be huge on the disk |
| 19:16.33 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I think 8-bit 2.2 gamma files are fine |
| 19:16.55 | Z80-Boy | My 2Y'CbCr converter takes that input format anyway |
| 19:17.06 | Z80-Boy | It's much better quality that what you get from common video formats anyway |
| 19:17.13 | ``Erik | erm, only 8x the size of a pix... |
| 19:17.36 | Z80-Boy | I think the clipping should be done in floating point and not in int |
| 19:17.53 | Z80-Boy | if you get some extreme light concentration from the raytrcing (lens)? you could get black spots |
| 19:18.03 | Z80-Boy | "only" |
| 19:18.20 | brlcad | sounds good to me, I'm not positive the dpix output was ever fully implemented myself *grin* |
| 19:19.41 | Z80-Boy | did you see Surf's Up? |
| 19:19.48 | Z80-Boy | It's a fully rendered film about surfing penguins |
| 19:20.06 | brlcad | not yet |
| 19:20.07 | Z80-Boy | they have the waves quite good except two things: |
| 19:20.20 | Z80-Boy | 1) the penguin gets a stable ride at high speed which he I guess shouldn't |
| 19:20.38 | Z80-Boy | 2) they didn't bother with calculating the waves spreading from the surfboard |
| 19:21.04 | Z80-Boy | also maybe 3) the waves turn up to be suspiciously perfect |
| 19:21.25 | Z80-Boy | But that wasn't rendered in brl-cad, I guess |
| 19:22.22 | Z80-Boy | I wonder what wavelet.c is used for, it sounds interesting. |
| 19:22.55 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.55 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:22.55 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:23.04 | Z80-Boy | Did you try wavelet compression of the output data? |
| 19:23.58 | Z80-Boy | C. S. Morrison everywhere ;-) |
| 19:24.44 | Z80-Boy | ah no that's special thanks |
| 19:26.03 | brlcad | a few more signficant patches bumps that up to code contributions, a *whole* lot more and you'd be up in the dev category |
| 19:26.20 | brlcad | haar wavelet transforms are awesome |
| 19:26.33 | Z80-Boy | yeah it's like mipmaps |
| 19:26.42 | brlcad | kind of |
| 19:26.54 | ``Erik | [[1 1][1 -1]] O.o heh |
| 19:26.55 | brlcad | a great way to manipulate signal data |
| 19:26.57 | Z80-Boy | I once wrote a wavelet preprocessor for lossless sound compression |
| 19:27.45 | brlcad | perform decomposition all the way down, do a low pass filter, then reconstruct .. beautiful noise reduction |
| 19:27.50 | ``Erik | erm, but if it's digital sound, it's already lossy :D *duck* |
| 19:27.56 | brlcad | and great compression characteristics |
| 19:28.07 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: low pass the highest band? |
| 19:29.17 | brlcad | it's not used anywhere, it's one of a hundred or so standalone signal processing tools |
| 19:29.48 | brlcad | if you see noise in the trace, it's caused by tracer options or the geometry |
| 19:30.03 | brlcad | (usually) |
| 19:30.30 | brlcad | e.g. using jitter and not understanding what it means to rt |
| 19:31.08 | brlcad | bbiab |
| 19:32.09 | ``Erik | hehehe, -j2 -h0 :o |
| 19:39.34 | Z80-Boy | Is there a simple way how to disable the restart code correctly? |
| 19:39.44 | ``Erik | um |
| 19:39.47 | ``Erik | in uhhhhh view.c |
| 19:39.59 | Z80-Boy | I'm still not getting how it works |
| 19:40.15 | ``Erik | line, um |
| 19:40.18 | ``Erik | 1410ish |
| 19:40.28 | ``Erik | change HAVE_UNIX_IO to 0 |
| 19:40.31 | ``Erik | that should do it |
| 19:40.36 | Z80-Boy | lol :) |
| 19:40.43 | ``Erik | not quite 'correctly', but it should work |
| 19:41.13 | ``Erik | well |
| 19:41.35 | Z80-Boy | sure, it makes sense |
| 19:41.48 | ``Erik | pretty much every machine these days has unix i/o... |
| 19:42.25 | ``Erik | and that should go away, oh, next week when I get around to it :) |
| 19:42.58 | Z80-Boy | view.c:211: error: syntax error before '<<' token |
| 19:43.07 | Z80-Boy | lol, Z80-Boy did a blind cvs-update |
| 19:43.19 | ``Erik | the basic premise of how it works is probably ... not quite right... I might make it pre-fill the image to make sure there's space to write to :/ |
| 19:43.33 | ``Erik | yes, <<<<<<<<<<<< confuses C |
| 19:43.36 | Z80-Boy | I see brlcad is very fast |
| 19:43.52 | ``Erik | ? |
| 19:44.05 | Z80-Boy | he already added the floor(pow()+0.5) |
| 19:44.15 | ``Erik | oh yeah, almost an hour ago |
| 19:44.26 | ``Erik | CIA-4 reported it... |
| 19:44.49 | ``Erik | should I give you my order? |
| 19:45.02 | Z80-Boy | order? |
| 19:45.11 | ``Erik | you're making enough food for everyone, right? |
| 19:45.16 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 19:45.22 | Z80-Boy | it's too far away for you |
| 19:45.46 | Z80-Boy | unless you send Air Force One for it of course... |
| 19:46.23 | ``Erik | heh, air farce one? O.o I don't even qualify to ride cattle on a commercial flight |
| 19:46.48 | Z80-Boy | farce lol |
| 19:46.52 | Z80-Boy | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so.19.1: undefined reference to `ogl_fogHint' |
| 19:46.57 | Z80-Boy | Do I need to rerun autogen.sh now? |
| 19:47.03 | Z80-Boy | or configure? |
| 19:47.07 | ``Erik | um, gnumake shoulda done that for you |
| 19:47.19 | ``Erik | try, uh, make clean in libdm and rebuild? |
| 19:47.35 | ``Erik | apparently I had some slop in my modification to configure.ac that brlcad fixed |
| 19:48.44 | Z80-Boy | so now if I break it in the middle of the pixfile it will just overwrite it? |
| 19:48.58 | ``Erik | should |
| 19:49.07 | ``Erik | if it doesn't, I'll look into it... |
| 19:49.19 | ``Erik | SHOULD be working on a, uh, document, though. |
| 19:49.35 | Z80-Boy | I need a quick hack to produce correct videos for Ronja within that week you plan to shoot it off definitely after |
| 19:51.31 | Z80-Boy | have you heard about pcc? |
| 19:52.06 | Z80-Boy | They want to put it into OpenBSD |
| 19:52.14 | Z80-Boy | It was written in mid 70's! |
| 19:52.23 | Z80-Boy | Even a bit more oldschool than BRL-CAD! |
| 19:52.35 | Z80-Boy | brl-cad compiled successfully |
| 19:53.41 | ``Erik | yes, ummm |
| 19:53.46 | ``Erik | netbsd did it, too, I think |
| 19:53.53 | ``Erik | it's less gnu-ey than gcc |
| 19:54.16 | ``Erik | and fbsd has an annual 'replace gcc with tendra' trollfest |
| 19:54.38 | Z80-Boy | but now what happens if I say have 50 frames computer from 360 and I break it and run again |
| 19:54.44 | Z80-Boy | will 50 frames be skipped? |
| 19:56.07 | ``Erik | it SHOULD just disable the continuation of that one frame, and start that frame over |
| 19:56.28 | Z80-Boy | so complete frames will be skipped, and incomplete recalculated? |
| 19:56.38 | ``Erik | I think so |
| 19:56.57 | Z80-Boy | Otherwise I need to calculate into a separate file and then do an atomic mv by the script |
| 19:57.33 | Z80-Boy | can the rt output color according to how long it took to calculate given ray? |
| 19:58.18 | ``Erik | no |
| 19:59.16 | Z80-Boy | what other tricks it can do apart from rt and rtedge? |
| 19:59.41 | Z80-Boy | rtxray lol :) |
| 20:00.05 | Z80-Boy | rtweight too... |
| 20:00.42 | Z80-Boy | wow, it really skips the complete file :) |
| 20:01.44 | Z80-Boy | but it still does the same problem :( |
| 20:02.26 | Z80-Boy | oh no, that's because I forgot make install! |
| 20:19.19 | Z80-Boy | Hmm make install didn't help :( |
| 20:19.47 | yukonbob | ``Erik: netbsd is working/playing w/ pcc, yes. |
| 20:53.18 | Z80-Boy | It's about as good idea as making it from asbestos |
| 20:53.25 | Z80-Boy | people coughing blood will sue the ass out of you |
| 21:08.15 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-024-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 21:08.22 | brlcad | some of the HAVE_UNIX_IO sections don't work without modification on Windows, that's why they've not yet been removed .. needs some interactive love'n'care'n'testing else they'll just turn into !_WIN32 sections |
| 21:13.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: merge of V5 implementation from HEAD |
| 21:17.33 | ``Erik | ooh, a b ig one O.o |
| 21:45.46 | ``Erik | *yawn* |
| 22:35.38 | *** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 22:36.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: only report the basename of the editor |
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| 00:37.17 | IriX64 | regards |
| 00:40.37 | IriX64 | still can't find that xlib, darn thing mustev run off to get married or something :) |
| 00:54.57 | brlcad | ssh access and it could potentially get fixed quickly |
| 01:05.53 | yukonbob | ...and IriX64. |
| 01:10.32 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 01:10.35 | brlcad | how goes it? |
| 01:11.24 | yukonbob | not bad at all... working away on projects bit-by-bit |
| 01:11.46 | yukonbob | you? |
| 01:30.36 | brlcad | pretty good, working on a fun projected area computation task at the moment |
| 01:30.56 | brlcad | using rtarea along with some scripting to see how coverage changes from various perspectives |
| 01:31.50 | yukonbob | so seeing what surface area is presented as an object rotates around various axes? |
| 01:32.06 | brlcad | something sort of like that |
| 01:32.12 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 01:32.16 | yukonbob | "sort of" |
| 01:33.31 | brlcad | if this were clothing, it'd be sort of like looking at the presented surface area as different skirts and dresses are compared, and doing so from various directions so you could characterize the "coverage" (or lack thereof) |
| 01:35.10 | yukonbob | ah |
| 01:37.58 | yukonbob | so, with a complex composite object, one could "dig in" to find a certain object and see how much is exposed "to the world", depending on the view. |
| 01:40.04 | brlcad | yeah, something like that |
| 01:40.44 | brlcad | even for something simple like a person's face, you could talk about what % of their face is taken up by their eyes or nose or ears, etc |
| 01:41.16 | brlcad | it's pretty simple, it just reports the values for whatever objects -- drop-in replacement for rt |
| 01:41.20 | yukonbob | right -- so the object doesn't have to be "buried" by other objects... just identifiable. |
| 01:42.13 | brlcad | the tool could be further improved, right now the "presented" area as it's listed isn't quite what one usually wants as it'll count how many surfaces you go through |
| 01:42.45 | brlcad | but exposure is the more useful one .. what projected surface area is there for all fo the given exposed objects |
| 01:42.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:43.00 | yukonbob | could you calculate, for example, how much sunshine would hit the side of a house with the sun at a certain spot, and a tree in the way? |
| 01:43.44 | ``Erik | *wave* |
| 01:44.26 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, definitely |
| 01:44.45 | yukonbob | brlcad: cool -- I'm gonna finish typing a report and play ;) |
| 01:45.16 | brlcad | or (and sort of like what i'm doing right now) how that % coverage of the trees changes as the sun progresses across the sky during the day |
| 01:45.36 | yukonbob | sure -- script it, take values, look for curve... |
| 01:45.43 | brlcad | script that to a table of values for various elevations and you have a nifty coverage curve |
| 01:49.28 | yukonbob | is this kind of analysis typical w/ professional CAD (ie: solidworks, Pro/E) (am I wrong to be lumping SW w/ Pro/E?) |
| 01:50.57 | louipc | I don't think it's wrong. I've never used Pro/E though heh |
| 01:56.06 | louipc | yeap everyone uses it |
| 01:56.35 | louipc | it doesn't do 2d drawings all that well though :P |
| 01:56.56 | yukonbob | but then, neither does brl-cad ;) |
| 02:02.01 | brlcad | it's not wrong, we're in the solid modeling CAD domain, which is solidworks, unigraphics, pro/e, catia |
| 02:02.33 | brlcad | we just don't do the drafting side really well (which they wander into a lot more, and for which autocad is king) |
| 03:21.48 | brlcad | report? |
| 03:22.33 | yukonbob | seperate work... |
| 03:23.57 | yukonbob | brlcad: can I just "rtarea mydb.g myobj" and get something interesting back? -- I've got some info, but now it appears to be wait()ing. |
| 03:26.11 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:26.14 | brlcad | what version are you on? |
| 03:26.26 | brlcad | there's an SMP bug in an older version |
| 03:26.44 | brlcad | causes it to hang, later fixed |
| 03:26.54 | yukonbob | still 7.8.x |
| 03:27.02 | brlcad | oh yeah, that one has issues |
| 03:27.24 | brlcad | doesn't matter ;) |
| 03:27.32 | yukonbob | feh |
| 03:27.53 | brlcad | you could fix it in code for 7.8.0, but there's a semaphore condition that causes a deadlock |
| 03:28.54 | brlcad | 7.10 is so much better in many under-the-hood ways |
| 04:07.25 | IriX64 | brlcad: can't be done im on cyggy remeber |
| 04:08.11 | brlcad | cyggy isn't a crutch |
| 04:08.18 | brlcad | it's just a matter of figuring out the compile |
| 04:08.43 | brlcad | lemme know if you change your mind on the access |
| 04:08.49 | IriX64 | sure |
| 05:13.36 | IriX64 | how do i work ssh ive never used it |
| 05:13.41 | IriX64 | have it tho |
| 05:17.35 | brlcad | install sshd, run it, open up port 22 on your firewall/router, create an account for the user you want to allow in, let them know the username password and IP address |
| 05:18.11 | brlcad | there's got to be several guides or tutorials up on-line somewhere for doing this specifically in cygwin |
| 05:18.27 | IriX64 | thanks ill look around |
| 05:18.30 | brlcad | otherwise, I imagine it's the same as creating any new user account, and just running the binary |
| 05:18.43 | IriX64 | right |
| 05:19.13 | brlcad | i've had others provide remote cygwin account access in the past to debug stuff, but I didn't ask what they did to set it up |
| 05:19.45 | brlcad | he controls his router/firewall settings last I noticed .. at least enough for him to run a public web server off it .. :) |
| 05:20.00 | yukonbob | there you go -- no problems ;) |
| 05:20.04 | brlcad | i think he has pictures of havoc to prove it ;) |
| 05:20.16 | yukonbob | lol |
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| 06:32.05 | brlcad | woo hoo, all done |
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| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix the .mgedrc saving. this was actually an 8.5 issue -- [font names] is no |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: longer empty. Tk now provides five fonts by default (TkCaptionFont |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: TkTooltipFont TkHeadingFont TkTextFont TkDefaultFont) which was causing mged to |
| 08:59.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: not initialize its own fonts (and later causing the tclscript error about the |
| 08:59.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: font variable not being set). actually check for one of our fonts via |
| 08:59.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: mged_default(text_font) |
| 08:59.47 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: that should fix the problem with the create/update .mgedrc menu option |
| 09:00.06 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: cool! |
| 09:13.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (helplib.tcl mged/openw.tcl mged/text.tcl): merge from head, tab completion and .mgedrc fix |
| 09:15.36 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you already have an idea what's causing the arbn mirroring problem? |
| 09:15.47 | Z80-Boy | Maybe the cause is the same as what causes the arbn to be incorrectly shaded |
| 09:16.17 | brlcad | i've not gotten to that one yet |
| 09:16.41 | brlcad | but not very likely at all -- mirroring is a self-contained function implemented per primitive |
| 09:16.53 | Z80-Boy | it's cool that you fix so fast, Samba needed 2 years for some of my bugreports. |
| 09:17.19 | brlcad | probably just a bug in that primitive's mirroring |
| 09:18.12 | Z80-Boy | But mirroring is not any special operation, it's just applying a matrix isn't it? |
| 09:18.23 | brlcad | this is actually a bit slower than the cad team has historically operated, though we still do okay from time to time for short periods of time |
| 09:18.28 | brlcad | no it's not |
| 09:18.48 | Z80-Boy | Does it check if a matrix is the special case - mirroring? |
| 09:19.01 | brlcad | it gets down to fundamental operations, like how you saw that for ray-tracing we perform what you called "direct calculations" |
| 09:19.28 | Z80-Boy | cause it seemed to happen also with a mere translation matrix |
| 09:19.47 | Z80-Boy | looked like any matrix applied on this particular arbn screwed it up significantly |
| 09:19.54 | brlcad | it's different for every primitive, some have a transformation matrix, but some (most) don't (as they really don't need it, you just flip a sign on a vector or similar operation) |
| 09:20.03 | Z80-Boy | like the directions of the facets seems to be still OK, but they were shifted |
| 09:20.31 | Z80-Boy | Here I did mirroring by typing a matrix into red |
| 09:20.34 | brlcad | it could be something more fundamental to the arbn, but still specific to it |
| 09:20.45 | brlcad | ahh |
| 09:20.48 | brlcad | you didn't run mirror? |
| 09:20.51 | Z80-Boy | that looks like the constants are wrong, doesn't? |
| 09:21.00 | Z80-Boy | No. I don't even know there's a special "mirror" function |
| 09:21.07 | Z80-Boy | I type everything into the red |
| 09:21.14 | brlcad | see if mirror works |
| 09:21.17 | brlcad | just curious |
| 09:21.57 | brlcad | that's good to know/annotate actually, as that would be a general unpushed matrix transform on an arbn |
| 09:22.20 | Z80-Boy | is it push/pop like with a stack? |
| 09:22.50 | brlcad | not really |
| 09:23.06 | brlcad | depends how you want to think about it, but it's matrices on nodes of the dag |
| 09:23.19 | Z80-Boy | unpushed matrix is a matrix that resides with the combination rather than with the solid? |
| 09:23.34 | brlcad | you can push the matrix down to the leaf nodes (the primitives) or leave them higher up |
| 09:23.37 | brlcad | right |
| 09:23.49 | Z80-Boy | how do you push them? |
| 09:23.54 | brlcad | the push command |
| 09:24.05 | brlcad | or the xpush command if you have multiple references |
| 09:24.06 | Z80-Boy | aha |
| 09:24.43 | Z80-Boy | No I don't use that |
| 09:25.19 | Z80-Boy | arbns are actually quite useful |
| 09:25.26 | Z80-Boy | You can make a dodecahedron and icosahedron with arbn right? |
| 09:26.07 | brlcad | sure |
| 09:26.23 | Z80-Boy | btw the display of spheres is annoying - couldn't it display a circle as outline of the sphere? |
| 09:26.33 | Z80-Boy | Now it display some kind of kid's playground attraction |
| 09:26.35 | brlcad | exceptionally compact for some of the shapes it can represent |
| 09:26.57 | Z80-Boy | or a potatoid if you generata a lot of randomly placed planes? |
| 09:27.22 | Z80-Boy | I also found that the command to make a lot of copies, I don't remember, shows only the first two |
| 09:27.30 | Z80-Boy | FOr example I make a cube, then tell it to make a row of 10 cubes |
| 09:27.36 | Z80-Boy | Only 2 cubes are displayed |
| 09:27.49 | Z80-Boy | then I need to actually redisplay (B again?) to show them |
| 09:28.05 | Z80-Boy | And also rt renders the last cube to be cut off |
| 09:28.17 | brlcad | clone command |
| 09:28.18 | Z80-Boy | I think you already said that it's because of Z clipping or something like that |
| 09:28.22 | Z80-Boy | yes clone was that |
| 09:28.31 | brlcad | are you up to date, clone was recently "completed" for beta-testing |
| 09:28.37 | brlcad | (like two days ago) |
| 09:28.40 | Z80-Boy | oh cool |
| 09:28.45 | Z80-Boy | No that was much more before |
| 09:29.17 | brlcad | ah, it was incomplete before -- it used to blather a big ol' warning |
| 09:29.36 | brlcad | but I vaguely recall erik taking that out as he started gettting the transforms to work |
| 09:29.39 | Z80-Boy | clone is mega cool |
| 09:30.21 | brlcad | clone is one of the most powerful commands available |
| 09:31.19 | brlcad | according to the modelers that have used it in the past, it's a feature that beats out the commercial packages by quite a bit |
| 09:31.45 | Z80-Boy | lollie lol :) |
| 09:31.50 | brlcad | originally implemented by this small company called GSI that did some really impressive models back in the early 90's |
| 09:32.32 | brlcad | they made a bunch of brl-cad mods, one of them was clone -- but implemented for our old API, so it's taken a long while to update it to our newest API so it could be integrated |
| 09:33.19 | brlcad | check out the pix-g tool in the src/proc-db directory ;) |
| 09:34.00 | Z80-Boy | pix2g? |
| 09:34.13 | brlcad | er, yeah, pix2g |
| 09:34.27 | Z80-Boy | what does it do? |
| 09:36.23 | brlcad | almost exactly what you said.. takes an image and generates a brl-cad model of it |
| 09:36.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: take the blame |
| 09:36.41 | brlcad | by creating a bunch of spheres in a plane, one for each pixel |
| 09:36.49 | brlcad | colored to the pixel value color |
| 09:36.52 | Z80-Boy | wow |
| 09:37.18 | brlcad | it was just for kicks |
| 09:37.47 | Z80-Boy | a million spheres, does mged choke? |
| 09:37.48 | brlcad | most of the proc-db tools are just instructional or passive tests, safe for a few that have some common use |
| 09:38.20 | brlcad | it did provoke a lot of issues in mged that I had to fix |
| 09:38.31 | Z80-Boy | ;-) |
| 09:38.40 | brlcad | and you can still blow the stack, I forget what the practical limit is |
| 09:38.43 | Z80-Boy | where is the code to draw a sphere on screen? |
| 09:39.10 | brlcad | but no, it should actually not choke mged (though you might need a large stack size) |
| 09:39.11 | Z80-Boy | src/mged? |
| 09:39.19 | brlcad | the wireframe? |
| 09:39.25 | Z80-Boy | draw multipane slowly? |
| 09:39.30 | brlcad | every primitive is almost entirely self-describing |
| 09:39.56 | brlcad | in just one file -- src/librt/g_PRIMITIVE.C |
| 09:40.48 | brlcad | the *_plot() function does the wireframe |
| 09:41.03 | Z80-Boy | ELL versions of the plot and tess functions are used |
| 09:41.07 | brlcad | librt is the geometry engine |
| 09:41.09 | brlcad | yep |
| 09:41.20 | brlcad | sph are ell |
| 09:41.42 | brlcad | it's just an optimized specialization for performance and user convenience |
| 09:42.02 | Z80-Boy | Oh RT_ADD_VLIST |
| 09:42.28 | brlcad | that's another one of GSI's mods that I'll probably work on merging next |
| 09:42.43 | Z80-Boy | what mod? |
| 09:42.58 | brlcad | they had high and low commands to display crisp wireframes |
| 09:43.11 | brlcad | instead of using N segments, it displays a smooth curve |
| 09:43.16 | Z80-Boy | cool! |
| 09:43.33 | brlcad | doesn't do the sillouette that you're talking about, but it's definitely a nice addition |
| 09:43.35 | Z80-Boy | cause with this it's often impossible to see if a sphere touches something or if it's misaligned |
| 09:43.46 | Z80-Boy | that should help too |
| 09:43.54 | brlcad | (it intentionally doesn't draw the sillouette, but would be interesting to try it (again)) |
| 09:44.09 | Z80-Boy | what's bad on silhoutette? |
| 09:44.17 | brlcad | they had another routine to snap spheres to surfaces ;) |
| 09:46.21 | brlcad | it's not that it's bad, but it'd need to be on all the curved surfaces to be consistent and that gets rather tricky for several of the primitives |
| 09:47.05 | brlcad | finding the projection of the sillouette of a torus for example, a lil tricksy |
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| 09:51.42 | Z80-Boy | I guess "toroid" is a typo of "tyroid", like have a shape of tyre |
| 09:52.04 | brlcad | huh? |
| 09:52.08 | brlcad | that's not a typo :) |
| 09:52.20 | brlcad | a toroidal surface |
| 09:52.40 | brlcad | ah |
| 09:53.00 | brlcad | humor, my brain isn't firing on all pistons at the moment, been up all night |
| 10:00.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: partial merge from head for the xno fix |
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| 14:05.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/ (76 files in 15 dirs): more merging from HEAD. bring in build system tweakage updates that should fix some library symbol problems from croping up post-release. |
| 14:08.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (14 files): merge from head, make linger the default framebuffer action instead of transient for all windowing framebuffer interfaces. |
| 14:13.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: separate out the 7.11 section so the STABLE branch can be kept in sync more easily |
| 14:16.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: merged from head was lingering framebuffer windows, red command, and .mgedrc editor setting |
| 14:17.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new mged 'clone' object copy command |
| 14:19.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oop, don't forget the lil ol 'tracker' command that was done early on; all to be announced for 7.12 |
| 14:21.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: clone and tracker are pretty much done, need some tender loving care and testing |
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| 15:46.19 | yukonbob_ | . |
| 17:03.49 | brlcad | happy friday! |
| 17:13.17 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 17:14.07 | ``Erik | have we gotten the green light for a release yet? |
| 17:24.28 | brlcad | nope |
| 17:49.34 | poolio | yay weekend :) |
| 17:49.42 | poolio | what's all this STABLE CIA spam I see? |
| 17:49.55 | poolio | And how many months late are you guys? :P |
| 17:54.16 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 18:07.33 | ``Erik | Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. |
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| 18:14.20 | brlcad | poolio: just one |
| 18:16.59 | poolio | heh, not too bad. |
| 18:17.14 | poolio | brlcad: I'm thinking about starting up coding again. Not having a programming class is really bugging me. |
| 19:37.24 | ``Erik | heh, cvs -z3 update -ACPdRrt |
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| 22:36.58 | yukonbob | dum de dum dum |
| 22:38.23 | thing0 | morning yall |
| 22:38.27 | thing0 | hey yukonbob |
| 22:38.28 | thing0 | ;) |
| 22:38.33 | yukonbob | afternoon thing0 :) |
| 22:38.39 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:38.48 | thing0 | it is 638am |
| 22:39.02 | yukonbob | Where? |
| 22:42.59 | thing0 | Perth |
| 22:43.06 | thing0 | sorry so many windows |
| 22:43.07 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:43.51 | yukonbob | I guess that means my friend in Adelaide is starting his day now too... |
| 22:44.38 | thing0 | he is two hours ahead |
| 22:44.43 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:45.56 | yukonbob | ya --- but oh -- it's Saturday too... ;) |
| 22:46.13 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:46.31 | yukonbob | happy weekend, thing0 :) |
| 22:46.51 | thing0 | it will be |
| 22:47.07 | thing0 | i have to get my legs better |
| 22:47.15 | thing0 | hurt them a bit while I was away |
| 22:47.25 | thing0 | noticed on Tuesday after sitting down for ages |
| 22:50.21 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:50.23 | thing0 | have fun |
| 22:50.40 | thing0 | i am deciding what new language to learn (re-learn) |
| 22:50.41 | yukonbob | I'll be having fun once it's done... |
| 22:50.47 | thing0 | i am thinking of python again |
| 22:50.48 | thing0 | hehe |
| 22:51.01 | yukonbob | lua |
| 22:51.20 | thing0 | lua? |
| 22:51.31 | yukonbob | little embeddable scripting lang |
| 22:51.43 | thing0 | i was thinking that |
| 22:51.49 | thing0 | lua did look familar |
| 22:56.03 | thing0 | yukonbob: i am after a language that is good for data parsing |
| 22:56.16 | yukonbob | tcl? |
| 22:56.17 | thing0 | preferably can use windows hooks aswell |
| 23:06.24 | ``Erik | weekend? I'll drink to that |
| 23:06.52 | ``Erik | um, the bezier widget shtuff can't wrk with tk8.4 |
| 23:07.22 | ``Erik | thing: scheme. or lithp. It'll expand your mind in ways you didn't imagine possibile, it's the LSD of languages :D |
| 23:08.56 | thing0 | lol |
| 23:09.02 | thing0 | nice "Erik |
| 23:09.06 | thing0 | thanks for that |
| 23:09.10 | thing0 | I will look into them |
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| 00:15.50 | yukonbob | ``Erik: brlcad said bezier was re-written -- are you saying it's _not_ compat. w/ 8.4 -- I asked specifically about it and sean said np. |
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| 00:55.25 | thing0 | brb |
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| 01:09.45 | ``Erik | yokon: then I'm wrong... *shrug* I dunno shit about tk :D |
| 01:15.44 | thing0 | lol |
| 01:38.04 | yukonbob | ``Erik: :) |
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| 03:31.51 | yukonbob | hrmm |
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| 08:21.09 | thing0 | hey yall |
| 08:21.19 | Z80-Boy | hi |
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| 13:09.54 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates | |
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| 18:25.35 | callmemrpurpose | hello? |
| 18:26.29 | callmemrpurpose | anyone there? |
| 18:30.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_arbn.c: |
| 18:30.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: When an arbn is raytraced, the surface normal reported is whatever was provided |
| 18:30.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: by the arbn creator, even if it is not a unit vector. This produces a scaling |
| 18:30.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: effect on shading. The prep routine now unitizes the normal vector. This fixes |
| 18:30.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bug #1800161. |
| 18:31.47 | callmemrpurpose | is this an auto cad room? |
| 18:31.57 | callmemrpurpose | I have a question |
| 18:32.30 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-76-66.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:33.21 | callmemrpurpose | say you are given the number .50x.25 that represents something to do with the angle ofa line. How exactly would you write this in cad? |
| 18:33.37 | callmemrpurpose | beginner here |
| 18:41.10 | Z80-Boy | locals only. split. |
| 18:41.22 | Z80-Boy | No, just joking. What does the 0.5 and 0.25 mean? |
| 18:41.38 | Z80-Boy | Is it a line whose direction is given by a vector (0.5, 0.25)? |
| 18:52.17 | callmemrpurpose | I dont know, there is an "X" there also and I have no idea |
| 18:53.32 | callmemrpurpose | I think it is a line whose direction is given by that. |
| 18:54.19 | callmemrpurpose | Lets say it is. How, if I already have a starting point, would I enter that vector in cad? |
| 19:09.20 | Z80-Boy | Hmm I never put a vector into BRL-CAD |
| 19:09.25 | Z80-Boy | But I know how to put a plane there |
| 19:09.37 | Z80-Boy | or more precisely a body made from planes |
| 19:09.56 | yukonbob | callmemrpurpose: it's likely implementation dependant -- in brl-cad to make a cylinder, one indicates a vertex, then the vectors for the endpoint; those are in three dimensions, though, not 2. |
| 19:10.29 | yukonbob | in mycyl rcc 0 0 0 0.5 0.25 0 0.1 |
| 19:10.40 | Z80-Boy | callmemrpurpose: yeah, you could make a thin cylinder instead of vector |
| 19:10.49 | yukonbob | where the first set of "0 0 0" == startpoint |
| 19:11.02 | yukonbob | "0.5 0.25 0" == vectors |
| 19:11.13 | yukonbob | and last "0.1" == radius of cylinder. |
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| 19:12.22 | yukonbob | regarding autocad and brlcad, though, you'd arguably have a bigger list of differences than similarities. |
| 19:14.17 | yukonbob | Z80-Boy: are you involved with ronja? |
| 19:14.25 | Z80-Boy | yukonbob: yes |
| 19:14.57 | yukonbob | nice -- very cool drawings; are those yours? |
| 19:16.18 | Z80-Boy | yukonbob: yes |
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| 21:49.09 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/blding391.png <--- no more havoc yukonbob ;) |
| 21:49.38 | IriX64 | err /maruo.dulisse2 |
| 21:49.42 | IriX64 | err |
| 21:49.45 | IriX64 | mario |
| 21:57.06 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/doingit.png <-- so how do i use it :) |
| 22:03.17 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:03.39 | IriX64 | heh im a losy gemoetry artist |
| 22:03.45 | IriX64 | lousy too |
| 22:04.31 | yukonbob | you can do a table, though -- top, legs, wheels on bottoms of legs. |
| 22:04.53 | IriX64 | ill think about it :) |
| 22:05.08 | IriX64 | dinners here ill be back |
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| 01:20.33 | brlcad | yukonbob: undoutedly (re: bigger list of differences than similarities) |
| 01:20.40 | brlcad | yay for sake and sushi! |
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| 02:11.30 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/editmode.png |
| 02:17.54 | yukonbob | mmmm...sushi |
| 02:23.07 | IriX64 | actually it was pizza :) |
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| 12:15.05 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: How is progress on the website and LDAP going - is there anything that needs doing that I can do? |
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| 13:15.29 | Z80-Boy | Why does a model of head render very quickly and the same just cut in half by a rpp renders extremely slowly? |
| 13:17.19 | Z80-Boy | what makes it faster, cutting things apart using the + operation or - operation? |
| 13:17.49 | Z80-Boy | - yields bigger bounding boxes doesn't? |
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| 16:51.18 | yukonbob | brlcad: when you head online today, I've got a few q's re: auto* (ie: conf,make) and the config. |
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| 19:22.01 | Z80-Boy | I was able to render one Ronja video clip flawless now thanks to the change to my script |
| 19:22.08 | Z80-Boy | Now when I know where the flickering comes from |
| 19:22.17 | yukonbob | ?where does it come from |
| 19:22.52 | Z80-Boy | from a bug in the restart code that happens only when gamma is specified. |
| 19:23.23 | yukonbob | ah -- that change was made in the brlcad code yesterday, no? |
| 19:23.35 | Z80-Boy | I don't know |
| 19:23.44 | Z80-Boy | I know they are going to fix it about now |
| 19:24.28 | yukonbob | so in your script you just skip the gamma? |
| 19:25.07 | Z80-Boy | no I make sure partial render is not attempted to be continued |
| 19:25.28 | yukonbob | heh -- fix the partial render by not rendering partials ;) |
| 19:25.39 | Z80-Boy | it is a workaround |
| 19:25.53 | yukonbob | indeed. |
| 19:25.57 | Z80-Boy | Well also a fix because the partial feature sucks a bit too |
| 19:26.13 | Z80-Boy | And it speeds things up a bit by not scanning through the already done work |
| 19:26.18 | Z80-Boy | it goes right down to the job :) |
| 19:27.02 | Z80-Boy | well if you render pix file and break it in the middle |
| 19:27.12 | Z80-Boy | when you try to render it again it continues where it stopped before |
| 19:27.40 | yukonbob | oh -- it automagically senses this and tries to save some work... this is built into rt? |
| 19:29.10 | yukonbob | my build is continuing -- didn't expect things to build so well... |
| 19:29.47 | yukonbob | heh -- spoke to soon |
| 19:45.21 | Z80-Boy | Is there a description how "transparency", "mirror reflectance", "specular reflectivity" and "diffuse reflectivity" are exactly defined? |
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| 00:41.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: jra noticed that rt options -g and -G no longer work due to change in default aspect from 1 to 0. |
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| 03:12.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: subst BLT and TKIMG so they can be used |
| 03:15.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: |
| 03:15.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fugly modification to permit running from finding uninstalled source directory |
| 03:15.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: resources (e.g. tclscripts). searches for this particular file for finding |
| 03:15.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: whether we're in a recognizable source directory. only search four levels deep |
| 03:15.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (should be enough for archer/mged in most of the hierarchy). |
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| 03:34.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (Makefile.am src/Makefile.am): don't need/want bltUnitMain as that's for bltsh |
| 03:49.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (Makefile.am main.c): preinit blt. only used by archer and unfortunately the lib seems to be a dead/abandoned project atm, but since we use it, preinit helps. |
| 03:49.47 | yukonbob | brlcad: what's the latest branch 7.10.3, or 7.10.4 |
| 03:49.48 | yukonbob | ? |
| 03:50.28 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 04:55.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA.tcl: look a little harder -- including looking in a source path for uninstalled resources |
| 05:20.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tkimg isn't working right and seems to be a bit dated, need to reimport it at some point |
| 05:34.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: |
| 05:34.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: variety of minor restructuring. use bu_brlcad_data more |
| 05:34.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: intelligently/consistently relying on it also working with uninstalled builds. |
| 05:34.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: disable the splash logo since tkimg isn't integrated correctly yet (still also |
| 05:34.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: have a problem with blt too). get rid of the massive auto_path hack since |
| 05:34.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: that's handled by libtclcad/bwish much more aggressively. |
| 05:38.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: restructure to allow uninstalled source directory invocations, as well as not making failure to find/load plugins fatal. |
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| 06:00.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: more robust checking using bu_brlcad_data searching |
| 06:31.01 | yukonbob | brlcad: You on? Over. *squelch* |
| 06:49.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: aiight, so tkimg does actually work .. probably still need to clean up how it's presently imported but it does work, so off the list |
| 06:50.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: tkimg works if you load the .so |
| 07:03.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: load tkimg and blt during initialization and report the error appropriately if the load fails. |
| 07:07.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: comment on sharedlibextension |
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| 07:38.43 | Z80-Boy | woohoo, bad shading of arbn fixed! |
| 07:54.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: need to only return successful if we find it, otherwise needs to return NULL |
| 07:55.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: fail quietly with bu_brlcad_data and bu_brlcad_root instead of verbosely ... could later add a --verbose option if it's really needed in scripting-land. |
| 07:57.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/Makefile.am: tclstub library is very much needed so that the module will dynamically load without unresolved symbols (e.g. as a dylib on mac os x) |
| 08:09.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (Makefile.am src/Makefile.am): bltVecCmd only applies to version 7 of tcl, so don't even compile it to avoid symbol warnings |
| 08:10.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: shouldn't need to be exact.. allow versions of the library that are not matching but potentially newer. |
| 11:05.01 | Z80-Boy | Actually a hexagonal nut doesn't have a shape of sharp hexagon |
| 11:05.06 | Z80-Boy | rather the corners are "filed down" |
| 11:05.23 | Z80-Boy | But is the "filed down" a sphere or a cone? And where is it defined? |
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| 11:59.50 | ``Erik | I see tcl/tk 8.5b1 is now listed on freshmeat |
| 12:01.14 | archivist | Z80-Boy, a cone (machined at an angle) |
| 12:01.59 | archivist | Z80-Boy, I would look at a standards body doc for that |
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| 12:52.48 | Z80-Boy | archivist: standards for $$$? |
| 12:53.32 | archivist | yes but I have old one, may have the angle 30deg iirc |
| 13:00.01 | Z80-Boy | and the diameter? |
| 13:00.14 | Z80-Boy | The circle is a bit smaller than the smallest diameter of the hexagon |
| 13:00.15 | archivist | A quick look in an old book specs all but that part |
| 13:00.42 | archivist | I think as its decoration, its up to the machine setter |
| 13:06.38 | Z80-Boy | A pimpmobile is a relatively expensive vehicle that includes additional features designed to increase the comfort of the driver and passengers, that has been heavily customized in a garish, extravagant style to advertise the owner's purported wealth and importance. |
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| 15:29.51 | brlcad | yukonbob: pong, sorry .. was on, but not reading irc last night |
| 15:30.34 | brlcad | latest branch is 7.11 |
| 15:30.52 | brlcad | (which will be 7.12.0 of course) |
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| 16:07.51 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: what about adding some debug mode to rt where instead of colour shade, the time to calculate the pixel would be output? |
| 16:15.29 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: :D |
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| 16:53.42 | yukonbob | q: is libtool configured in configure.ac? |
| 16:55.55 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: ooh, that'd be nifty |
| 16:56.08 | brlcad | kinda like that idea .. see how expensive various portions are relativley |
| 16:56.39 | brlcad | hmm, that wouldn't be a compilcated lighting mode at all actually |
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| 18:31.06 | yukonbob | any libtool experts who can spare a dime^Wminute? I need an include path added to what it's using when compiling, but don't know how/where to add -- -I doesn't seem to work... |
| 18:32.30 | brlcad | yukonbob: permanently or temp? |
| 18:33.05 | brlcad | perm would be configure.ac mod or Makefile.am mod -- temp, it can be added to the configure line or to make |
| 18:33.30 | brlcad | e.g., make CPPFLAGS=-I/additional/path/to/search |
| 18:33.45 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is it easy, to tap into the place where the shaded value is written in rt and substitute the difference between the current and last time, and update the last time? |
| 18:34.08 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: cause for example an optical head or console which contain screws render fast |
| 18:34.13 | yukonbob | I've set the CPPFLAGS, and it's generating libtool lines w/ the proper -I's, but those -I's don't actually seem to be recognized by libtool -- so I was wondering if it's got it's own config somewhere... |
| 18:34.52 | Z80-Boy | but if it's the cutaway view, it's suddenly very slow. I assume it's because some bolts are cut longitudinally right in half and that makes the decisions around the ray difficult |
| 18:43.14 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: you could hack that sort of book-keeping fairly easily, though then even the time to write out that new time will impact the results significantly (i/o bottleneck) |
| 18:44.08 | brlcad | there's also a slew of debugging already built-in that you could enable and search, though all fairly low-level |
| 18:45.06 | brlcad | yukonbob: no it doesn't have it's own config but does have some logic behind how it does what it does |
| 18:45.31 | brlcad | you can repeat a build line and remove the --silent flag to see exactly the gcc line it uses |
| 18:45.51 | typo | brlcad: GCC produces horribly crap code sometimes |
| 18:46.05 | typo | brlcad: if you use unsigned long long - then it's like if they ignored the peephole optimization |
| 18:47.28 | brlcad | there's hardly any long long's in the code since that rarely ever worked on pre c89 compilers |
| 18:49.17 | typo | ;-) |
| 18:49.22 | typo | Have you heard about PCC? |
| 18:53.55 | yukonbob | feh. |
| 18:59.53 | yukonbob | http://www.pastebin.ca/722072 |
| 19:04.17 | yukonbob | this ---^ is the errors from my build -- libtool isn't doing what I want... :P |
| 19:05.06 | yukonbob | (includes original error, generated gcc incantation, and proper (manually constructed) gcc incantation I want... |
| 19:05.10 | yukonbob | ) |
| 19:34.34 | brlcad | typo: yes, I've heard of it, but not played with it yet |
| 19:34.58 | brlcad | there's a move in the bsd communities to replace gcc with it down the road if it can get up to snuff because of it's licensing |
| 19:35.40 | brlcad | yukonbob: I get an invalid id on that pastebin |
| 19:38.35 | yukonbob | brlcad: 1 sec... repasting |
| 19:42.52 | yukonbob | http://www.pastebin.ca/722133 |
| 19:45.47 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: :) |
| 19:51.17 | yukonbob | my libtool == 1.5.24, btw |
| 20:01.38 | brlcad | yukonbob: at a glance, you're missing the X11 header paths ;) |
| 20:01.52 | brlcad | your X11 headers are really in /usr/pkg/include/X11 ? |
| 20:02.22 | brlcad | that's a rather unconventional place to put them... :) |
| 20:02.28 | brlcad | that said, the problem is undoubtedly the space |
| 20:02.33 | brlcad | there's no space after the -I |
| 20:02.46 | brlcad | libtool is probably dropping the directory or the -I |
| 20:02.54 | yukonbob | that is the path -- I'm usring xorg-modular from pkgsrc -- it makes sense in the netbsd world ;) |
| 20:03.09 | yukonbob | I'll adjust the spacing and see what happens ;) |
| 20:03.15 | brlcad | make CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include |
| 20:03.38 | brlcad | very different from make CPPFLAGS="-I /usr/pkg/include" |
| 20:04.00 | yukonbob | ...and you're saying I need "-I /usr/pkg/include"... |
| 20:04.57 | yukonbob | ??except the _other_ includes don't use spaces --: -I., -I../../include -I/usr/include -- and those aren't mine... /me retries anyway.... |
| 20:05.33 | yukonbob | starting... |
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| 20:18.00 | yukonbob | same thing... |
| 20:25.34 | brlcad | you don't want the sapce |
| 20:25.47 | brlcad | having a space is a problem |
| 20:25.56 | brlcad | in your pastebin, you had a space |
| 20:26.14 | brlcad | not saying that is _the_ problem, but it's potentially _a_ problem ;) |
| 20:28.46 | brlcad | hrm, k |
| 20:29.18 | brlcad | another thing to try, if it is a libtool issue, try 1) make CFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include |
| 20:29.30 | brlcad | 2) ./configure CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include |
| 20:29.37 | yukonbob | good idea... will try. |
| 20:30.03 | brlcad | just to make sure it's not a flags issue with libtool overriding one |
| 20:30.16 | brlcad | otherwise the configure one really should work as that applies a global include |
| 20:38.10 | yukonbob | note: I'm getting a "regex.h: present but cannot be compiled" warning, too. Say to report it, so here's a report ;) |
| 20:38.27 | brlcad | yeah, benign |
| 20:53.15 | brlcad | yukonbob: any luck? |
| 20:53.36 | yukonbob | not yet... /me finds some anomolies, thought -- like why --silent is listed 2x: |
| 20:53.41 | yukonbob | LIBTOOL = $(SHELL) $(top_builddir)/libtool --silent |
| 20:53.42 | yukonbob | LIBTOOLFLAGS = --silent |
| 20:54.13 | yukonbob | (in Makefile for src/libdm) |
| 20:54.27 | yukonbob | (not that that's going to wreck the build...) |
| 22:01.02 | brlcad | yeah, having it twice is intentional |
| 22:01.33 | brlcad | different versions of libtool need the flag differently |
| 22:01.47 | brlcad | so configure ends up adding to both |
| 22:02.40 | brlcad | if you add --enable-progress, it'll turn off the --silent flag |
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| 23:43.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: prevent generating a crash report when we simply don't have any work to do or when the requested geometry doesn't exist. don't bomb, just quit. |
| 00:38.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: blt is actually already loaded as part of the preload in the main archer script, so don't need this load here |
| 00:40.13 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: the minimum version checks are bogus for the pre-release alpha distribution, it needs to check all the way down to the patch level |
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| 00:42.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: additional try/catch checking for archer so that we can print better abort messages when things go horribly wrong |
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| 06:04.04 | brlcad | g'damn finally, archer now actually works on os x... |
| 06:35.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: |
| 06:35.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the mighty bob lieth not. blt_library really _does_ need to be set AFTER blt is |
| 06:35.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: loaded. the variable is wiped out during Blt_Init() yet is subsequently |
| 06:35.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: required/expected in the Tabnotebook. this is the final mod that actually makes |
| 06:35.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Archer work on Mac OS X (tested, and seemingly fully functional) and probably on |
| 06:35.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Linux and BSD too now. |
| 06:37.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: |
| 06:37.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: archer is now functional, at least seems to be fully functional now on Mac OS X |
| 06:37.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: with the slew of resource and library mods that were needed. archer runs both |
| 06:37.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: installed an even uninstalled from a compiled source directory. |
| 06:44.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: dupe |
| 06:49.24 | yukonbob | brlcad: nice! |
| 06:51.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 2 dirs): |
| 06:51.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: already deprecated since 7.0, consider the following files finally obsolete for |
| 06:51.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the next minor update: msr.h, rtstring.h, rtlist.h, shortvect.h, shortvect-pr.h; |
| 06:51.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the contents of those files moved into or were replace by functionality in the |
| 06:51.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bu.h header |
| 06:54.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: there are a variety of install and post-install support scripts now, aside from being an overly vague/generic todo item |
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| 07:35.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO doc/deprecation.txt): move the deprecation items to their own file so that they can actually be preserved in a running log of API changes, including basic guidelines for how to go from deprecated to obsolete. |
| 07:45.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: implement a lighting model for rt that visualizes how expensive each pixel is to compute via some heat graph. |
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| 13:52.46 | L0CALZ_0NLY | brlcad: what about taking rtedge and in the black pixels and neighbouring ones raytrace it with higher resolution than in the remaining ones? |
| 13:53.06 | L0CALZ_0NLY | it should work fine on models without texture mapping |
| 14:16.47 | yukonbob | ...on to tclcadAutoPath.c. |
| 14:41.29 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:15.27 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@i157-115.nv.iinet.net.au) | |
| 15:24.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: |
| 15:24.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Add another path for RT. |
| 15:24.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Search for 'moss.g' in $DB and cull (so if the .g's are in a different dir than $(top_srcdir)/db, the right path is used). |
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| 16:19.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: Disable image restart. |
| 16:25.07 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: sorry to bug but a bit of info about the current website status would be nice. |
| 17:03.10 | *** join/#brlcad frbrgeorge (n=george@GW.itcomm.ru) | |
| 17:03.48 | frbrgeorge | hi there |
| 17:05.38 | frbrgeorge | I've got a problem with autogen/configure BRL-CAD |
| 17:07.10 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 17:07.52 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 17:08.35 | frbrgeorge | using -l<library> in LDFLAGS instead of LIBS in autogen.sh cause modern ld failed |
| 17:10.03 | ``Erik | hum, where are you seeing that? |
| 17:11.09 | frbrgeorge | we have --as-needed bu default in our distro |
| 17:11.44 | frbrgeorge | (I mean ld --as-needed) |
| 17:12.19 | ``Erik | ah, a debian or ubuntu? |
| 17:12.46 | ``Erik | with a broken libtool? heh |
| 17:13.18 | frbrgeorge | so "cc conftest.c -lpng" works, but "cc -lpng conftest.c" doesn't |
| 17:13.34 | frbrgeorge | no, ALT Linux ;) |
| 17:14.12 | ``Erik | odd, so it's breaking at configure time? with the distributed configure script? |
| 17:14.55 | ``Erik | <-- doens't have any -l stuff in any of his LDFLAGS vars, grepped it all |
| 17:15.42 | ``Erik | mebbe if you could post the offending bit of config.log to, say, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ ? |
| 17:15.49 | frbrgeorge | no it just can't foind libpng, libx11 etc, but not breaks :) |
| 17:19.27 | frbrgeorge | well, let me check my unhack first... |
| 17:28.54 | frbrgeorge | ...it partly works |
| 17:33.29 | frbrgeorge | there's nothing special to paste, but http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/pastebin.php?dl=d8910551 |
| 17:33.54 | *** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj) | |
| 17:34.44 | qazwsx | I've been playing with mged and I was wondefing if there are operationsin brlcad like the following: " here's a line segment; rotate it about this axis; get me a curved surface"; "here's a line segment; extrude it in this direction, get me a surface", ... "here is a line segment; here is a sphere, run the sphere through the line, get me the corresponding surface" |
| 17:35.35 | ``Erik | and when you flip where the -lpng is on that compile line, it works? |
| 17:36.01 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: yep |
| 17:36.05 | ``Erik | qaz: not really, it's a solid modeller... the last one can be done with a pipe or cylinder and sphere's unioned on the ends... |
| 17:36.21 | qazwsx | ``Erik: any suggestion of anther tool? |
| 17:37.18 | ``Erik | frbrgeorge: that's a straight up AC_CHECK_LIB() ... I dunno what to tell you with that :/ |
| 17:37.34 | ``Erik | qazwsx: you mean like qcad or blender? O.o |
| 17:38.20 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: is autogen.sh 15,1 Top |
| 17:38.37 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: (oops) is autogen.sh a generated file |
| 17:38.38 | frbrgeorge | ? |
| 17:38.43 | ``Erik | autogen.sh should just call autoreconf with some flags |
| 17:39.01 | ``Erik | it's a script that brlcad found or wrote and has been tweaked a bit |
| 17:39.17 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: (oops twice:) I mean configure.ac, neturally |
| 17:40.05 | ``Erik | erm, no? O.o |
| 17:44.14 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: so if configure.ac is written manually, one has to replace those LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS $LIBPNG" (etc.) clauses with LIBS="$LIBS $LIBPNG" |
| 17:47.14 | ``Erik | ahhhh, so you're catching it on the AC_TRY_RUN(), not the AC_CHECK_LIB() ? |
| 17:50.08 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: buth :( |
| 17:50.36 | ``Erik | there's nothing we cna do about the AC_CHECK_LIB(), that's before those variables get set |
| 17:51.07 | frbrgeorge | ``Erik: no, AC_CHECK_LIB seems to work |
| 17:51.53 | ``Erik | <-- testing a fix... |
| 18:23.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: LIBS instead of LDFLAGS to hold library names (thanks to frbrgeorge for spotting this one) |
| 18:25.46 | MinuteElectron | ]/w 32 |
| 18:33.03 | yukonbob | +++HANGUP |
| 18:34.26 | ``Erik | heh, you mean +++ATH0 ? |
| 18:34.36 | ``Erik | hayes codes, pheer |
| 18:35.31 | yukonbob | atdt [erik's l33t 'puter] |
| 18:36.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:36.29 | ``Erik | atpt ! |
| 18:36.30 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 18:36.45 | ``Erik | popopopop popopopop popoppopopopop |
| 18:37.12 | yukonbob | ah pt.. |
| 18:37.15 | yukonbob | doesn know. |
| 18:37.19 | yukonbob | *does |
| 18:38.18 | yukonbob | those should be attp, attd |
| 18:38.26 | ``Erik | oh, atp or atdp |
| 18:39.02 | yukonbob | ah right ... what is atpt? |
| 18:39.09 | yukonbob | atdp == dial pulse. |
| 18:39.14 | ``Erik | me misrecalling and thinking atp |
| 18:39.25 | yukonbob | pheer indeed ;) |
| 18:39.31 | ``Erik | it's been a long time |
| 18:39.37 | ``Erik | poke 53280,0 |
| 18:39.38 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 18:39.40 | yukonbob | together we'll be able to get a c64 online |
| 18:39.43 | ``Erik | c64 badassedness |
| 18:39.46 | yukonbob | hahah |
| 18:39.51 | yukonbob | 6510 baby.. |
| 18:40.10 | yukonbob | only ml I know... |
| 18:40.31 | ``Erik | the coleco adam was a neat machine, but the c64 was better at games |
| 18:41.03 | ``Erik | <-- has done too many assembly languages and monitor/mnem :/ |
| 18:41.53 | ``Erik | dambusters? at night? |
| 18:42.02 | ``Erik | so pretty much an all black screen O.o heh |
| 18:42.13 | yukonbob | dambusters sounds right. |
| 18:43.24 | ``Erik | all in past tense, obviously this person is no longer your friend after dumping one of those things on 'em ;) *duck* |
| 18:43.44 | ``Erik | hum, dragons lair, buck rogers, ... |
| 18:43.52 | yukonbob | heh -- person wasn't my friend, and writing a book on it was _their_ idea, not mine ;) |
| 18:44.08 | ``Erik | hrm, what was the one with the helicoptor doing sorties to rescue people... with the three buildings... |
| 18:44.40 | yukonbob | for coleco/adam, me prefered the donkey kong series |
| 18:45.04 | yukonbob | b.c. quest for tires |
| 18:45.08 | yukonbob | smurfs |
| 18:45.34 | ``Erik | heh, yeah |
| 18:49.16 | ``Erik | heh, gorf |
| 18:49.56 | ``Erik | zaxxon |
| 18:50.40 | ``Erik | choplifter ! |
| 18:50.48 | ``Erik | damn, that was driving me nuts |
| 18:50.52 | yukonbob | that rings a bell. |
| 18:51.20 | ``Erik | it was significantly ported |
| 19:19.12 | ``Erik | allllllrighty then, BSD4.3 on a vax 11/780 |
| 19:26.37 | brlcad | scary |
| 19:32.25 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: that X include yesterday -- was a pkgsrc peculiarity; nothing to do w/ the distribution or the flags. |
| 19:33.05 | yukonbob | now I'm onto a tclcad issue (when I get some spare cycles) |
| 19:43.43 | brlcad | qazwsx's inquiry can actually be done for the second case as well -- that's just a sketch and an extrude; the surface of revolution and sweep are the ones we can't do, but linear extrudes are old news |
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| 19:46.28 | brlcad | yukonbob: tclcad issue? |
| 20:02.14 | *** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk) | |
| 20:02.33 | yukonbob | brlcad: http://www.pastebin.ca/723441 |
| 20:05.21 | brlcad | ick |
| 20:05.35 | brlcad | undoutedly the const modifier .. haven't seen that in a while |
| 20:12.31 | brlcad | iirc, there's a one-line fix to a tcl header that fixes the problem if it's the one i'm thinking of .. but what was that line... |
| 20:38.46 | ``Erik | hrmmmmm, someone said something about long long a while ago and someone said we don't use 'em... that ain't true, tcl.h has 'em :( |
| 20:39.27 | ``Erik | and that spew of errors almost looks like that regeh.h issue O.o |
| 20:46.05 | ``Erik | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1a1e1c3d |
| 20:47.01 | yukonbob | ``Erik: =) |
| 20:56.18 | ``Erik | doh, that'll teach me to rely on a tmp dir, heh |
| 22:08.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/scriptsort.c: declare yyin |
| 22:09.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: disable scriptsort if we don't have a suitable lexer/parser since it needs a lexer (fixes build on mjm) |
| 22:11.01 | brlcad | ``Erik: awesome |
| 22:11.25 | brlcad | getting the build to work will probably be a heck of a lot easier with --enable-only-benchmark |
| 22:12.17 | brlcad | hopefully you have an up-to-date gcc on there though.. I'd had to revert back to patches that're needed for old 4.3 compiler to work |
| 22:23.46 | ``Erik | heh, no, it's the cc that comes with bsd, all encumbered... :/ |
| 22:24.09 | ``Erik | I was thinking about checking out an old old old version from the vgr era |
| 22:24.37 | ``Erik | but I'll have to talk to kermit to figure out exactly what kinda hw is involved... I'm told the machine was bought with a single processor and field upgraded to dual at some point |
| 22:46.00 | brlcad | you know where the sources are right? |
| 22:47.38 | brlcad | /c/BRL-CAD/OLD on cad, you can get 3.0 or 4.0 from there .. 4.5 or 5.0 is probably the last version to be tested on vgr before it was decommissioned |
| 22:53.30 | ``Erik | I was gonna just cvs 'em out |
| 22:54.02 | ``Erik | pulling source from '84 has been... edjimucational :) far more readable I think |
| 22:55.29 | brlcad | there was a lot less of it |
| 22:55.52 | ``Erik | yes, less files, and they're much simpler and shorter |
| 22:55.54 | brlcad | two decades of feature creep and enhancing |
| 22:56.02 | ``Erik | raytrace.h was especially useful :) |
| 22:56.38 | brlcad | that was a fun exercise, finding all of those old versions and tagging them |
| 22:56.56 | brlcad | I didn't try to compile the really old ones, just tagged for reference |
| 22:57.01 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:57.03 | brlcad | since some files had moved/renamed |
| 22:57.13 | ``Erik | yeah, and early on, ther'es not even a build system |
| 22:57.14 | brlcad | and would have been mostly futile/incompatible |
| 22:57.22 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:57.29 | ``Erik | and some of the tagged ones don't even have all the headers referenced in the code |
| 22:57.38 | brlcad | for a while, mike used to say he'd just cat all the files together and pipe it to the compiler |
| 22:58.01 | ``Erik | heh, I suppose that's one way... provided your headers are correctly gaurded |
| 22:58.32 | brlcad | properly guarded and/or only included once |
| 22:59.10 | ``Erik | included once in a C file, perhaps, but if two files include, say, stdio.h ... and it's not properly gaurded *shrug* |
| 22:59.24 | ``Erik | I tried to compile some of the earlier stuff, but the systems have changed too much |
| 22:59.34 | brlcad | welp.. got a really preliminary gross rough estimate vgr for mjm |
| 22:59.35 | ``Erik | I couldn't even get an early jove to compile, and that had a makefile |
| 22:59.45 | ``Erik | all cores lit up? |
| 22:59.53 | ``Erik | did it break 100k? |
| 23:00.13 | brlcad | I haven't done the distribution yet |
| 23:00.32 | ``Erik | be interesting to render a HUGE image and walk the cpu count to get a scalability set |
| 23:00.35 | brlcad | if it scaled perfectly linearly, and presuming the node I used was even representative ... |
| 23:00.55 | brlcad | which of course it won't |
| 23:00.57 | brlcad | but if it did |
| 23:00.59 | ``Erik | for count in `jot 5000` ; do ./ rt ... |
| 23:01.00 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:01.04 | brlcad | the vgr would be |
| 23:01.08 | brlcad | *drumroll* |
| 23:01.14 | ``Erik | get on with it |
| 23:01.15 | brlcad | 8897900 |
| 23:01.20 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:01.32 | ``Erik | I'd still like to see the scalability graph |
| 23:01.40 | brlcad | yep, that's next |
| 23:01.51 | brlcad | if it hits half that, I'll be amazed |
| 23:01.58 | ``Erik | at that many cores? hell yeah |
| 23:02.08 | ``Erik | um, it's a cluster, so that'd be remrt? |
| 23:02.12 | brlcad | though I'm talking with msrc now to see if I can schedule interactive on the entire cluster at some point |
| 23:02.44 | ``Erik | they're upset that their resources aren't be used as much as they think they should |
| 23:02.44 | brlcad | otherwise, I'm going to give the batch system a try |
| 23:03.07 | brlcad | the new hawk system is freaking sweet |
| 23:03.19 | brlcad | that 'should' hit top 25 in the top500 |
| 23:03.29 | ``Erik | hawk? |
| 23:03.43 | brlcad | new 9000 processor altix |
| 23:03.55 | ``Erik | ah... wow... |
| 23:04.04 | brlcad | 18x512 iirc |
| 23:04.08 | ``Erik | those are still being purchased? |
| 23:04.31 | ``Erik | does intels cc do decent vliw optimizations yet? |
| 23:04.38 | ``Erik | gcc's output on those suck |
| 23:04.39 | brlcad | afaik, or purchased and being installed already from the sounds of it |
| 23:05.28 | brlcad | last I tested icc vs gcc on altix, it kicked gcc's ass, but only with -gen_prof/-gen_use |
| 23:05.42 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:05.52 | ``Erik | brute force finding of optimization paths? O.o |
| 23:05.58 | brlcad | that was a couple years ago, and in all fairness didn't try gcc's dual pass opt |
| 23:06.18 | ``Erik | uhhh, what's that compiler company twingy was working with? uh, f something... |
| 23:06.35 | brlcad | yeah, eliminate all the branchs by at least making all the first guesses correct |
| 23:06.48 | brlcad | dunno |
| 23:07.31 | ``Erik | they had a compiler out and their claim was that if any compiler produced faster code, it was a bug... they had a funky script that went through every permutation of optimization flags to achieve that, if I understood correctly |
| 23:07.51 | ``Erik | and, uh, adrt/tie came out faster using gcc than their stuff hehehhe |
| 23:08.02 | brlcad | and remrt isn't particularly awesome, though the amount of data being transferred is exceptionally minimal (just the ray out and pixel results back), so it really doesn't do too bad a job |
| 23:08.17 | ``Erik | hm |
| 23:08.24 | brlcad | it's more a pita to set up as it was never designed for ease of use -- it was designed to get some jobs crunched out some year |
| 23:08.32 | brlcad | whilest making movies |
| 23:08.33 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 23:08.53 | ``Erik | so every transaction is a single ray/pixel handshake? |
| 23:09.09 | ``Erik | bundling up sets would probably help a lot |
| 23:09.16 | brlcad | no, it has batching |
| 23:09.20 | ``Erik | okie |
| 23:09.34 | ``Erik | but tcp/ip? |
| 23:10.01 | ``Erik | at some point, the latency and stack overhead will overshadow the cost of just doing it :/ |
| 23:10.18 | ``Erik | oh, I turned off the 're-use pix data' in rt... |
| 23:10.33 | ``Erik | after my bsd/vax adventure, I might try wiring the bu_image_save() stuff into rt |
| 23:10.43 | ``Erik | but vax is more fun :D |
| 23:11.57 | ``Erik | shoot,I forgot to email dwayne to let him know where a clone enabled install is |
| 23:12.58 | ``Erik | http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:6129 hehhe one of those doesn't belong... or... does it? |
| 23:13.48 | ``Erik | (that page is work safe, btu most of the site is not) |
| 23:13.58 | brlcad | i saw the reuse bit.. should rip the code out and annotate news |
| 23:14.11 | brlcad | make sure there arent other outliers |
| 23:14.25 | brlcad | related to automatic restart |
| 23:15.11 | ``Erik | yeah... I did the #if 0 trick... wanna be slow about removing possibly used functionality :/ |
| 23:16.17 | brlcad | that's not exactly slow .. as good as ripping it out to the user :) |
| 23:16.24 | brlcad | i mean, it's in cvs |
| 23:16.34 | brlcad | if it need to be reverted, it can be on a dime |
| 23:17.28 | ``Erik | meh *shrug* |
| 23:18.21 | brlcad | plus next release is minor ver #, so good time for it |
| 23:18.54 | brlcad | otherwise, I'd think we should just leave it on with a bu_log'd deprecation message to see if anyone notices |
| 23:19.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:20.27 | ``Erik | I'm doing an update to gut it... personally, I'd probably go with a bu_log() and have it disabled... or mebbe a bu_bomb() to get someone actually talking to us |
| 23:25.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:25.47 | ``Erik | domo arigato mr roboto |
| 23:26.30 | ``Erik | ah, unicode math symbols |
| 23:27.46 | starseeker | They're sort of the "Duke Nukem Forever" of the scientific software world... |
| 23:32.42 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 23:32.52 | ``Erik | read a webcomic recently about halo three, uhhhhhhh |
| 23:32.59 | ``Erik | lemme find it |
| 23:33.14 | louipc | "Take me, Robert!" sighed the forty-five year old construction worker as the tripe-fondling construction worker diddled her moist ear lobes and augured his swinish gusher into her dusty appendix scar. |
| 23:34.35 | ``Erik | http://godmodeonline.com/d/20070924.html |
| 23:34.46 | Twingy | pathscale |
| 23:39.04 | ``Erik | yeahhhhh, them, amusing stuff :) compilers are fun O.o |
| 23:39.40 | ``Erik | twingy, didja get that fpga chunking along? the development softwawre was all lame and I think they wanted you to buy a real license to really use it... |
| 23:40.41 | ``Erik | not to mention the windowsyness of it all |
| 23:53.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH and DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH so that we can find tcl/tk prior to installation |
| 00:17.07 | ``Erik | SO, brlcad, why is it that when I do a default ./configure on a hackintop, it wants to build libpng? |
| 00:53.21 | Twingy | ``Erik, the "nios" is the propietary collection of logic gates to create a minimalistic instruction set to become compatible with a linux kernel |
| 00:54.14 | Twingy | in reality an individual will use a cpld/fpga for designing a rather simplistic logic device such as a hybrid 74xx series device or venture off and write some vhld and hope it generates some reasonable gates for you |
| 00:54.20 | ``Erik | hum, I have a memory of the windows tool itself being finicky |
| 00:54.42 | Twingy | *vhdl |
| 00:55.27 | Twingy | there is very little appeal to me in that regard at least with my current laundry list of things I do |
| 03:13.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: because os x actually doesn't provide libpng |
| 03:14.31 | brlcad | they have png support, but it's not libpng .. built-in to one of the foundation frameworks, they do their own thing (optimized version) |
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| 13:28.54 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I wrote a program that can automatically generate further documentation for BRL-CAD: http://ronja.twibright.com/voynich.png |
| 13:31.17 | brlcad | heh |
| 13:39.52 | ``Erik | ok, the bottom looks like it's out of a cheat sheet or pdf or something... the top looks like docs generated from code... our code, anyways O:-) |
| 13:42.45 | ``Erik | hum, path add for /sw and /opt/local went away |
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| 17:11.01 | ``Erik | the truely ignorant never feel ignorant |
| 17:12.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: see if that helps the distcheck, declare and clean the build source file from the lexer |
| 17:14.34 | ``Erik | doh, beat me to it |
| 17:14.44 | brlcad | muahaha |
| 17:16.59 | ``Erik | y'know, I dunno if the 780 can handle ra92 drives |
| 17:19.09 | ``Erik | I think once I get a useful image all set up, I might drop it on bz for anyone who wants to play... was kinda a bitch to set up |
| 17:22.20 | *** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-35-171.dyn.iinet.net.au) | |
| 17:34.26 | brlcad | yeah, that'd be cool |
| 17:34.54 | ``Erik | provided there aren't any license concerns, heh... I'm surprised that I foudn scripts to attempt to build it and stuff, but no binary image |
| 17:35.15 | ``Erik | w00t, got an ra92 labeled, formatted and mounted |
| 17:35.29 | brlcad | i was going to give it a try, ran across 4.3 somewhere, but then had some problem with it |
| 17:35.46 | brlcad | netbsd was just "easier" and I'd not gotten the pdp to load up |
| 17:36.19 | ``Erik | 4.3 proper is not public, due to copyright crap... I'm using the quasijarus variant ('missing' stuff has been re-written) |
| 17:36.43 | ``Erik | <-- has had good results with the pdp1 and pdp11 |
| 17:37.31 | ``Erik | this has been my starting point http://www.ba23.org/page0207.html |
| 17:37.42 | ``Erik | but the port files dont' work, the scripts don't quite work, ... |
| 17:37.59 | brlcad | getting the vax 11/780 going will be the money shot |
| 17:38.27 | ``Erik | vgr wasn't exactly out of the box, though... chuck was evil to it |
| 17:38.32 | brlcad | ah, cool, i'd not seen that page |
| 17:38.52 | ``Erik | http://www.retrocomputinggeek.com/index/retrowiki/Install4.3BSDQuasijarus/ has also helped me a little |
| 17:38.56 | brlcad | well, that just means that theoretically you should get a sub-1 vgr :) |
| 17:39.47 | ``Erik | I figure if I'm in 30%, it's going really well |
| 17:40.13 | ``Erik | if kermit remembers roughly what he did, I could try faking it in the sim |
| 17:42.23 | ``Erik | nah, hain't been there... part of the fun is muddling through it myself and hunting down the info :D the other part is asking people who used to use 'em and getting the local stories |
| 17:42.58 | ``Erik | ed knows a fair bit more than I think he's willing to admit to himself |
| 17:45.39 | ``Erik | hum, our benchmark results were from 4.5? |
| 17:50.42 | ``Erik | uhhhhh |
| 18:03.00 | brlcad | heh, called it "hurt" |
| 18:03.28 | brlcad | basically all of rt combined into one file with a few things thrown out |
| 18:03.43 | brlcad | though if you get through bu and rt then you're probably 90% done to start with |
| 18:04.32 | brlcad | that tar.Z compressed is actually almost the same size |
| 18:04.33 | brlcad | # du -k cad4.3.tar.Z |
| 18:04.33 | brlcad | 18652 cad4.3.tar.Z |
| 18:04.33 | brlcad | # du -k src/tmp |
| 18:04.34 | brlcad | 18352 src/tmp |
| 18:06.31 | ``Erik | <-- grabbing rel-4-5 |
| 18:07.01 | ``Erik | pix/moss.pix indicates that's what I WANT, and it isn't in the OLD/ dir |
| 18:07.25 | brlcad | ah, right, good catch |
| 18:07.31 | brlcad | forgot it's in the log files |
| 18:07.55 | brlcad | you can download 4.5 off various public websites (encrypted) too |
| 18:08.02 | brlcad | i think it's up on bz somewhere too |
| 18:10.51 | brlcad | hm, i guess not anymore on .bz |
| 18:12.06 | brlcad | ooh, it'd be awesome to get simh listening on a port on .bz so you could log into it remotely =) |
| 18:12.10 | ``Erik | cvs [update aborted]: cannot rename file CVS/Entries.Backup to CVS/Entries: No such file or directory |
| 18:12.12 | ``Erik | awesome. |
| 18:12.30 | ``Erik | well, hrm, I don't think the networking works on the 780 yet |
| 18:12.33 | ``Erik | not all the way |
| 18:13.02 | ``Erik | oddly enough, I'm using kermit to attach to a serial port on it, heh... |
| 18:13.27 | brlcad | wouldn't need networking, just hook it up into some tcpwrapper that invoked siimh |
| 18:13.47 | ``Erik | so everyone gets their own image? simh isn't terribly efficient |
| 18:13.54 | brlcad | yeah, something like that :) |
| 18:14.31 | ``Erik | emulating a pdp11 at historic speed requires a p3 or better |
| 18:14.32 | brlcad | anyone have any aversion to removing the MAINTAINERCLEAN directives? |
| 18:14.44 | brlcad | at least for the Makefile.in entries |
| 18:15.48 | brlcad | not a big deal imho, but it's less to futz with in the files .. even though it's still totally dubious as to whether you truely "need" those in order to run ./configure and make per automake guidelines |
| 18:16.14 | ``Erik | if 'distcheck' is happy with them gone... I don't care *shrug* |
| 18:17.11 | brlcad | yeah, I'd just added them way back when I felt a little more adament that the behavior was good for maintainer-clean |
| 18:17.35 | brlcad | but in however many years over however many projects .. I just don't find myself ever using maintainer-clean |
| 18:17.44 | brlcad | hell, I use distclean more than that |
| 18:20.13 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't think he's ever seriously used it |
| 18:20.59 | ``Erik | hum, with throttling on, it's not chewing too much cpu |
| 18:20.59 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-017-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 18:21.11 | ``Erik | still a bit of memory... 15 megs for an 8m 780 |
| 18:21.55 | ``Erik | and bz isn't exactly a beasty machine these days |
| 18:25.42 | brlcad | yeah, I'm actually considering an upgrade as of just yesterday |
| 18:26.10 | brlcad | there's a deal the isp is offering that'd give me a good chance to easily upgrade to the 6 kernel |
| 18:26.32 | brlcad | plus bigger disk, and going from celeron 2.4 to PIV 2.4 |
| 18:26.40 | brlcad | with more memory |
| 18:26.47 | brlcad | all for just a couple bucks extra |
| 18:27.50 | ``Erik | interesting, 4.5's tcl seems to be... scattered? or incomplete? O.o |
| 18:27.57 | brlcad | unless they agree to my request to keep my current bandwidth cap (which they're considering), I'd loose about 1MBit of my max .. but then I've yet to use more than 20% of my pipe as it is |
| 18:28.21 | brlcad | both |
| 18:28.24 | brlcad | 4.5 didn't have tcl yet |
| 18:28.32 | brlcad | at least not yet exposed to the user |
| 18:28.37 | brlcad | it was the last pre-tcl version |
| 18:28.57 | ``Erik | 55 meg tarball O.o |
| 18:29.45 | brlcad | "shouldn't" even be in the build iirc .. but maybe .. it was started around 4.4 with some testing iirc |
| 18:30.17 | ``Erik | files are scattered around |
| 18:38.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: bad resort on trailing slash |
| 18:54.40 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Do you have a minute? |
| 19:13.35 | ``Erik | hurrr, I'm a retard |
| 19:13.48 | ``Erik | "how do I get this tar file off of the tape to unpack it?" ... |
| 19:16.46 | ``Erik | compiling cake and cakeaux |
| 19:27.57 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-81-225.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:34.58 | ``Erik | behhh |
| 19:36.20 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-81-225.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:36.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (106 files in 106 dirs): remove the MAINTAINERCLEAN rules, they're never really used regardless of the debate over whether the Makefile.in files belong there or not |
| 19:37.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (55 files in 55 dirs): remove the MAINTAINERCLEAN rules, they're never really used regardless of the debate over whether the Makefile.in files belong there or not |
| 19:37.40 | ``Erik | huh |
| 19:39.53 | ``Erik | interesting, bsd4.3 doesn't seem to have an -x option to test, so sh/machinetype.sh was being pissy |
| 19:51.36 | ``Erik | yuh oh |
| 19:51.37 | ``Erik | "../librt/./polyno.h", line 35: syntax error |
| 20:14.11 | brlcad | nice |
| 20:15.09 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: not really, but will hopefully in a few minutes |
| 20:15.42 | ``Erik | hum |
| 20:15.50 | brlcad | wow, polyno.h .. haven't seen that filename in ages |
| 20:16.13 | ``Erik | that's the wonderful error you get when you redefine a typedef on this cc |
| 20:16.39 | brlcad | dude, can't you get gcc working on it or something? :) |
| 20:16.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:16.52 | brlcad | I think the last builds were done with gcc anyways for the vax |
| 20:17.14 | ``Erik | it's a pita to keep building tapes O.o |
| 20:17.23 | brlcad | iirc, had to cross-compile rt because of address limits during linking |
| 21:11.42 | ``Erik | hurf, files have been moved in naughty ways, probably in RCS |
| 21:16.47 | ``Erik | 4.3 it is |
| 21:49.46 | brlcad | kermit said he might actually have 4.3 bsd binaries around somewhere |
| 21:50.09 | brlcad | yeah, I know for certain that files have moved in CVS/RCS since 4.3 |
| 22:05.45 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 23:07.39 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) | |
| 23:13.11 | ``Erik | heh, iraytrace, vgr's spirit lives in the body of orthus, bsd4.3 on a vax 11/780, just compiled BRL-CAD 4.3 on it today O.o gonna see if I can get cvs head kinda working enough to run benchmarks after I tune it to run at 1 vgr :D |
| 23:13.20 | ``Erik | hostname is vgr2.brl.mil O.o |
| 23:13.56 | iraytrace | seriously cool |
| 23:14.36 | ``Erik | once it's done, I'm thinking about putting the disk image and boot config on bz for anyone interested O.o brlcad wants a telnet port on bz for anyone to try out |
| 23:15.40 | ``Erik | <-- running an ra81 as the primary drive, ra92 as the fun drive, and a ts11 tape drive, with a serial/modem console attached via kermit |
| 23:15.51 | ``Erik | simh ftw |
| 23:15.58 | iraytrace | So what are you tuning to get the simulator to run at 1vgr? |
| 23:16.12 | ``Erik | there's a throttle setting where you can specify mips or kips |
| 23:16.23 | iraytrace | Sweeeeet |
| 23:16.41 | ``Erik | I don't *THINK* there's a way to get dual cpu on it, so instead of trying to actually get it right, I'm gonna fdge |
| 23:16.44 | ``Erik | fudge |
| 23:17.00 | iraytrace | uh, the old VGR numbers were for a single cpu. |
| 23:17.10 | iraytrace | you should be good to go |
| 23:17.12 | ``Erik | but I'll bug kermit to get some stuff right-ish I think... I'll call him up and ask him if he has an ra92 tub drive I can borrow :D |
| 23:17.33 | ``Erik | cool, ed told me that the machine was modified to take a second cpu in its life.. and I'm under the impression that kermit was hotrodding it |
| 23:18.06 | iraytrace | At one point it was dual cpu. The reference benchmarks were run single cpu. |
| 23:18.40 | iraytrace | The second cpu just allowed another *process* to run. Remember, this pre-dates posix threads |
| 23:19.55 | ``Erik | heh, the latest vgr sync was in december of '97 from what I read O.o |
| 23:20.25 | ``Erik | be interestin gto see where our off-by-on errors crept in O.o |
| 23:21.14 | ``Erik | oh, the mjm dedication was recorded, there's an email addy where you can request a copy, but I left it at work |
| 23:23.03 | iraytrace | When you get a chance, shoot it to me. |
| 23:23.13 | iraytrace | Have you heard from LeeAnn? |
| 23:23.19 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:36.57 | iraytrace | *you* can probably get away with it. |
| 23:41.45 | ``Erik | hrm, irssi? |
| 23:50.34 | iraytrace | Colloquy actually |
| 23:51.51 | ``Erik | ah |
| 23:52.00 | ``Erik | privmsg goes to a hidden window or something? |
| 23:52.54 | iraytrace | different "chat" section |
| 23:53.11 | iraytrace | um. Different window. |
| 01:52.50 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) | |
| 02:06.57 | yukonbob | ?what's btclsh for |
| 02:07.59 | brlcad | it's a tclsh that has the brl-cad extensions preloaded |
| 02:08.53 | brlcad | e.g. run "bu_brlcad_data ." in btclsh |
| 02:09.00 | brlcad | it'll show you were the data path is |
| 02:09.00 | yukonbob | so that's why it's linked against libtclcad... is that the only way to get libtclcad functionality, or is it possible to load libtclcad into tclsh via package require? |
| 02:09.30 | brlcad | hm, I believe you could do a direct "load libtclcad.so" |
| 02:09.47 | brlcad | not sure if it'd need some pkgIndex.tcl or other Init() function, though |
| 02:09.50 | ``Erik | if a require could snarf up C code very easily, I'd imagine 'wish' would not be a standalone binary? *shrug* |
| 02:10.28 | yukonbob | "wish" is a convenience name... you can just as well run tclsh and package require tk. |
| 02:10.44 | brlcad | it auto-creates the top-level window too |
| 02:10.44 | ``Erik | aight, *shrug* I'm not a tcl guy |
| 02:10.57 | brlcad | so you can just start packing |
| 02:11.01 | yukonbob | brlcad: so will package require tk ;) |
| 02:11.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:11.07 | brlcad | it does? |
| 02:11.29 | brlcad | ah, so it does |
| 02:11.35 | brlcad | learn something new every day |
| 02:11.43 | ``Erik | hum, heh, |
| 02:11.43 | ``Erik | % package require tk |
| 02:11.43 | ``Erik | can't find package tk |
| 02:11.46 | brlcad | Tk |
| 02:11.46 | yukonbob | Tk |
| 02:11.50 | ``Erik | okie |
| 02:12.31 | ``Erik | it might be possible to eliminate btclsh (or make it a 2 line tcl program) then *shrug* :) |
| 02:12.52 | brlcad | simh ftw! |
| 02:13.07 | ``Erik | hrm? |
| 02:13.13 | brlcad | just reading the backlog |
| 02:13.20 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:13.27 | ``Erik | yeah, I wanna spin kermit up with a phone call |
| 02:13.43 | yukonbob | I'm stripping as much from the build as possible on my tcl/tk8.4 quest to use local libs... and it's currently puking on btclsh, but like ``Erik just said, it might be easily skipped... |
| 02:15.09 | yukonbob | does mged use btclsh? |
| 02:15.13 | brlcad | no |
| 02:15.20 | ``Erik | mged wires straight to libtcl |
| 02:15.32 | brlcad | mged is its own interpreter |
| 02:15.49 | ``Erik | TclInterp out the wazoo in src/mged/ :) |
| 02:15.58 | brlcad | rather, with an embedded tcl interpreter integrated with mged's own processing loop |
| 02:16.05 | ``Erik | just one? heh |
| 02:16.13 | brlcad | just one.. |
| 02:16.27 | yukonbob | so, might one be able to build the brl-cad suite w/o btclsh and still be reasonably functional? |
| 02:16.34 | brlcad | sure |
| 02:16.43 | ``Erik | completely functional as far as I can tell |
| 02:16.54 | yukonbob | rock'n'roll... |
| 02:16.59 | brlcad | not completely, stand-alone rtwizard uses it |
| 02:17.07 | ``Erik | ah, ok |
| 02:17.20 | ``Erik | is there a reason rtwizard couldn't use, say, mged -c ? |
| 02:17.26 | brlcad | the prep in the tclscripts dir will fail without it, so it'll rely on the existing precomputed results |
| 02:18.09 | ``Erik | (and actually... getting back to the original issue... btclsh will link against system libtcl iirc) |
| 02:18.13 | yukonbob | are those script doing CAD-ish stuff, or only Tcl-ish stuff? |
| 02:18.24 | ``Erik | src/btclsh/ is a pretty light directory |
| 02:18.43 | ``Erik | er |
| 02:18.46 | ``Erik | src/bwish |
| 02:18.54 | yukonbob | but if I've already got Tcl installed, I've got tclsh, and could just 'load libtclcad' and get "btclsh". |
| 02:19.05 | ``Erik | I mean, about a thousand lines of code for both btclsh and bwish |
| 02:19.10 | yukonbob | (if that in fact works...) |
| 02:19.32 | brlcad | yukonbob: rtwizard just does tclish stuff iirc |
| 02:19.54 | brlcad | i'm not *certain* you can just load libtclcad .. never tried it |
| 02:20.11 | yukonbob | brlcad: never a better time than the present... |
| 02:20.16 | brlcad | but in theory at least you should be able to, or at least come close to that after adding the hooks |
| 02:20.20 | ``Erik | blaze a trail, yukon :D see if it's possible, explore it! |
| 02:21.04 | brlcad | i imagine it won't work outright simply because there's nothing that says what function(s) it needs to invoke, and how to get access to the functions the lib provides |
| 02:21.34 | brlcad | when mged uses it, it just calls the function in C-land, and it gets passed the already created interpreter |
| 02:25.24 | brlcad | woo hoo, .bz's ISP agreed to let me keep my bandwidth at the same price .. so looks like I'll be doing the upgrade after all |
| 02:25.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: any special setup requests/suggestions (w.r.t. freebsd)? likely choose stable 6 otherwise |
| 02:32.22 | ``Erik | a modern 6 (6.2-stable) is a good place for an os to be |
| 02:32.52 | ``Erik | my request is not letting it go so outdated that updated ports fail :D and of course, I have 8 zillion ports I'd strongly recommend |
| 02:33.13 | ``Erik | portmanager, portaudit, uh, uptimed, ... bash cuz I'm lame... |
| 02:34.13 | ``Erik | but, hey, it's your box :) if you want, I'll help where I can, but I aint' got no final say, yo |
| 02:35.43 | ``Erik | awesome that they're grandfathering you in |
| 02:36.23 | ``Erik | might make it worth putting effort into putting up some fun simh with anonymous telnet (throttled, of course) |
| 02:37.41 | brlcad | it moved to 6 within just a month or two of getting installed |
| 02:38.46 | brlcad | otherwise, you've seen as much of the port upgrades as I have .. there were at least 6 full-port updates over the last two years |
| 02:39.13 | brlcad | and only that infrequent because they became harder and harder to do |
| 02:39.35 | brlcad | I think I'll pay the extra per month and upgrade the net link as well |
| 02:46.03 | ``Erik | 5.21 was more than 6mo before 6.0... like, 18 months |
| 02:46.33 | brlcad | i mean, it was the end of the stable line |
| 02:46.42 | brlcad | then a month or two later, it swapped to 6 |
| 03:10.37 | ``Erik | 5.3 and 5.4 were stables before 6.0 went stable |
| 03:10.46 | ``Erik | and there's a 5.5 out, too |
| 03:25.23 | yukonbob | libtool: link: warning: library `/usr/pkgsrc/bch/brlcad/work/.buildlink/lib/tcl/itk3.3/libitk33.la' was moved. |
| 03:25.42 | yukonbob | means |
| 03:25.42 | yukonbob | ... building mged... |
| 03:26.10 | yukonbob | I got similar when I was building bwish (which I've now just skipped), but I _do_ want mged... |
| 03:51.41 | ``Erik | 'was moved'? O.o |
| 03:52.27 | yukonbob | ya -- it's weird -- ..and then I get some basic Xlib (I think) missing references -- might be a pkgsrc thing -- I just updated my Makefile to see what shakes out... |
| 03:52.50 | yukonbob | do you know what it means? (/me guesses "no" based on your eyes O.o |
| 03:52.52 | yukonbob | ) |
| 03:52.59 | brlcad | it probably really was moved, something pkgsrc is doing maybe (where it was compiled for one path, but finally put into another, then libs linked with it in the final location) |
| 03:53.35 | yukonbob | the .la looks "normal" to me, though... |
| 03:53.47 | yukonbob | just failed again... get ready for short flood: |
| 03:53.50 | brlcad | it means what I wrote in the parenthetical .. which would be either an unclean build, or it really was moved, or you're getting something to link against two different itk33 libs |
| 03:53.54 | ``Erik | um |
| 03:53.57 | ``Erik | pastebin.bzflag.bz |
| 03:55.38 | yukonbob | http://www.pastebin.ca/725142 |
| 03:57.54 | ``Erik | hrmmmm what os again? debian/ubuntu? |
| 03:58.25 | yukonbob | netbsd |
| 03:58.31 | ``Erik | O.o hrm |
| 03:58.54 | brlcad | it's missing -Xi |
| 03:58.58 | brlcad | er, -lXi |
| 03:59.10 | ``Erik | what lib is, say, XOpenDevice in there? pehaps Xi? |
| 03:59.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:59.13 | ``Erik | beat me to it |
| 04:00.35 | brlcad | that should be fixed on head already |
| 04:01.01 | brlcad | assuming you really do have a usable Xi and that our test isn't flawed |
| 04:01.11 | yukonbob | we'll find out ;) |
| 04:01.38 | brlcad | grep X_LIBS Makefile |
| 04:01.43 | brlcad | what does it report? |
| 04:02.14 | yukonbob | is building ... 1 sec. |
| 04:02.35 | brlcad | Tk functionality test also includes Tcl |
| 04:02.48 | brlcad | the Tk lib test is an independent symbol search |
| 04:02.58 | brlcad | shouldn't need tcl for that |
| 04:03.25 | brlcad | (if you did, pretty much all the lib symbol tests would fail for more than a dozen libs) |
| 04:09.07 | yukonbob | thx. for help w/ all this folks -- I hope something good comes of it for both of us ;) |
| 04:09.45 | yukonbob | brl-cad supermodel edition *Now Less Calories!!* |
| 04:10.04 | yukonbob | actually "supermodel" is a good name, in this case... |
| 04:10.13 | yukonbob | (tm)! |
| 04:11.56 | yukonbob | so, is archer X11 too, or just Win/Mac? |
| 04:12.41 | louipc | it's buggy in linux |
| 04:13.05 | louipc | well buggy to the point I can't get anything other than a little grey box |
| 04:13.12 | yukonbob | where linux == linux/bsd/solaris/*nix -- or just linux? |
| 04:13.35 | louipc | I don't have those other *nix so i couldn't say |
| 04:13.48 | louipc | but that would seem like a logical assumption |
| 04:14.03 | yukonbob | is tcl/tk, fltk, gtk, other? |
| 04:14.33 | louipc | tcl/tk |
| 04:15.14 | yukonbob | idea is it's primarily WIMP interface, vs. mged's keyboarding? |
| 04:15.46 | louipc | I hope it has command line! |
| 04:25.56 | yukonbob | !yaY |
| 04:53.15 | brlcad | yukonbob: archer is pure tcl/tk |
| 04:53.33 | yukonbob | nice... what are the plans for mged? |
| 04:53.47 | brlcad | louipc: I just fixed archer a couple days ago... it should work everywhere now if I got took care of all the loading issues |
| 04:54.37 | brlcad | archer actually includes a half embedded and half-rewritten mged |
| 04:55.06 | louipc | oh sweet |
| 04:55.16 | yukonbob | where did the name "archer" come from? |
| 04:55.16 | brlcad | it was a prototype interface intended to maybe some day replace mged or at least show what's possible even via tcl/tk with a different style gui |
| 04:55.45 | brlcad | it was part of this joint (army, navy, air force) SBIR funded project called "Crossbow" |
| 04:56.03 | brlcad | archer was one of the tools in the project, one of several similarly named tools |
| 04:56.08 | yukonbob | ahh |
| 04:56.29 | yukonbob | arrow, target, robinhood, apple? |
| 04:56.44 | brlcad | the project dealt with vulnerability/lethality calculations, so naming it with things that throw projectiles was quite appropriate |
| 04:56.52 | louipc | the marines don't need cad eh? |
| 04:57.10 | brlcad | marines don't do research :) |
| 04:57.16 | yukonbob | heh |
| 04:58.14 | brlcad | archer still keeps a command console, with most of the core mged commands still available, and shows how things could work with various tabbed information panels, gui buttons, and more |
| 04:58.27 | brlcad | navy uses brl-cad |
| 04:59.43 | brlcad | they're just late to the V/L game, it took a catastrophic event like a ship bombing to get them thinking about paying more attention to their vulnerabilites |
| 05:01.46 | louipc | I'd have thought that would be the first thing you'd think of when building any type of military vehicle heh |
| 05:02.41 | yukonbob | louipc: are you a brl-cad dev? |
| 05:03.06 | louipc | nope just an interloper |
| 05:03.13 | yukonbob | :) |
| 05:03.48 | brlcad | louipc: it was federally mandated that everyone *has* to think about it before vehicles go into use |
| 05:04.01 | brlcad | but the level of that thought varies widely, as do the needs |
| 05:04.20 | brlcad | the V/L characteristics of a ship vs. a plane vs. a tank are *massively* different |
| 05:04.38 | brlcad | i mean, if a plane is hit, it's pretty much a critical kill |
| 05:04.59 | brlcad | if a tank is hit, it very well might actually bounce off |
| 05:05.21 | yukonbob | is that a function of the plane/tank, or just their geometric properties, though? |
| 05:05.46 | louipc | both I think |
| 05:05.48 | yukonbob | tank == thicker angled armour, plane == thin aluminum tubes or carbon fiber, etc. |
| 05:05.50 | brlcad | depends on both, and varies heavily asset to asset |
| 05:05.59 | brlcad | as well as the threat |
| 05:07.08 | louipc | like the tail prop of a chopper is a critical yet delicate part. if that's taken out the whole thing comes down.. even if the rest is intact |
| 05:07.41 | yukonbob | well, brlcad wouldn't know that, though, would it? |
| 05:07.43 | brlcad | either way, the vast *majority* of all V/L analyses are used by a single code that directly hooks into BRL-CAD for geometric analyses answering questions like "what components are along this shotline", so the more V/L work going on, the more folks (in DoD) are using BRL-CAD (directly and indirectly) |
| 05:08.18 | louipc | brlcad does the modelling... |
| 05:08.56 | brlcad | the modeling, and the *geometric* analysis (which is almost entirely what drives the *V/L* analyses, which then add in their own algoritms) |
| 05:09.34 | brlcad | they deal with the physics of penetrations, simulating interactions, velocities, energy, etc .. BRL-CAD answers all the questions about the geometry |
| 05:10.33 | brlcad | like what material is the object, where is it physically, what regions is it comprised of, what mass/volume/moments/etc does it have, how thick is something from a given angle, what's along a shotline, etc |
| 05:11.03 | brlcad | yukonbob: cool, was there much backport changes? |
| 05:11.23 | yukonbob | mostly the build process... though I've only been running it ~30s |
| 05:11.34 | brlcad | no tcl/code changes? |
| 05:11.39 | yukonbob | not yet. |
| 05:12.00 | yukonbob | ... but if it's OK with you, I'd really appreciate 8.4 support, and can help w/ determining needs to that end... |
| 05:12.45 | yukonbob | (where support == consideration in future code for 8.4 compat) |
| 05:13.27 | brlcad | I could possibly motivate/convince a back-port to 8.4 to the folks that will care, but I'd need to know the exact steps/patching needed and test it myself first |
| 05:16.04 | yukonbob | btw, 'load ...libtclcad.so' yields "couldn't find procedure Tclcad_Init". |
| 05:16.08 | louipc | is tcl beta in brlcad now? |
| 05:18.22 | brlcad | ah, cool -- figured they'd auto-search for some _Init() function |
| 05:18.31 | brlcad | no, beta's not in yet |
| 05:18.49 | brlcad | wanna add it? :) |
| 05:19.32 | louipc | :D |
| 05:20.03 | louipc | I'd love to but other things are grabbing my time |
| 05:21.30 | yukonbob | now my rtarea works, presumably so will rtedge, among others ;) |
| 05:23.03 | yukonbob | wireframe in mged gfx window seems slower (compared to 7.8.x) -- anybody else notice this? |
| 05:23.15 | yukonbob | *slower rotation w/ x,y,z |
| 05:25.56 | yukonbob | for arb*, does it matter what order the points are entered? |
| 05:41.17 | brlcad | yes, it does |
| 05:41.33 | brlcad | gfx may actually be slower if you compile optimized vs non-optimized |
| 05:41.41 | brlcad | or with/without opengl |
| 05:41.57 | brlcad | otherwise, it's all in your head |
| 05:42.19 | brlcad | it reports a fps in the faceplate |
| 05:42.32 | brlcad | (on the misc options in the menu) |
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| 13:59.28 | ``Erik | unthrottled.... |
| 13:59.28 | ``Erik | Abs vgr2 2261.62 1051.17 809.07 771.05 1003.79 1179.34 |
| 13:59.29 | ``Erik | *vgr vgr2 16.50 15.67 14.42 14.44 14.19 15.04 |
| 14:32.41 | Z80-Boy | Now the Ronja videos are recompiled without the flashes and uploaded to the Ronja page, woohoo :) |
| 14:33.42 | archivist | one for ``Erik as a connesiur of amusing pics http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive8/2005-05-14_butttrumpet.html |
| 14:51.33 | Maloeran | Argh, please don't post stuff like that |
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| 15:16.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:16.59 | ``Erik | I'll assume it's not work safe and will avoid opening it O.o |
| 15:20.13 | ``Erik | such awesome hardware, with 45 minute renderings |
| 15:30.31 | archivist | a motorcycle, a bare butt, a can of beans and a traffic cone |
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| 15:33.18 | ``Erik | that, um... |
| 15:33.19 | ``Erik | uh... |
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| 16:53.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: basically all ronja models - including those with complicated screws - render fast |
| 16:53.54 | Z80-Boy | except for 2 models where a screw is cut apart, which render orders of magnitude slower |
| 16:53.59 | Z80-Boy | Isn't that suspicious? |
| 16:54.11 | Z80-Boy | Even when the screw actually occupies only tiny fraction of the picture |
| 17:04.18 | ``Erik | how is it cut? |
| 17:04.43 | ``Erik | the 'cut' primitive can make things really really really slow |
| 17:05.27 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I guess I wasn't here 'in a few minutes' lol. |
| 17:05.27 | Z80-Boy | it's a boolean operation |
| 17:05.27 | Z80-Boy | with a rpp |
| 17:05.27 | Z80-Boy | either subtract or and, both slow |
| 17:05.49 | ``Erik | hum, depending on how the tree is built, you might be doing way more weaves than you need to be |
| 17:10.53 | ``Erik | (and brlcad probably wont' be here for several hours... he might even be too busy until mondayish) |
| 17:11.15 | MinuteElectron | screwin @ me |
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| 17:21.46 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.png |
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| 19:47.31 | ``Erik | nifty, looks like vgr was running around 345Kips |
| 19:58.02 | dtidrow_work | I forget - what does the benchmark program summary mean again? |
| 20:02.40 | ``Erik | um, which part? |
| 20:02.55 | ``Erik | the vgr bit? |
| 20:03.20 | dtidrow_work | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.23 | dtidrow_work | arg |
| 20:03.35 | ``Erik | oh, heh :D |
| 20:03.49 | ``Erik | the Abs line is second sof computation for each image, then the mean |
| 20:03.53 | dtidrow_work | that stuff - let me get the recent one from my lappy |
| 20:04.05 | ``Erik | the *vgr line is how many vgr's worth of unf that is |
| 20:04.19 | ``Erik | where vgr was a vax 11/780 running BSD 4.2/4.3 |
| 20:04.47 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:04.51 | dtidrow_work | Abs localhost.localdomain 1035035.81 467863.48 482449.25 374872.08 513705.77 540954.26 569146.77 Sat Jun 30 14:15:09 EDT 2007 |
| 20:04.51 | dtidrow_work | *vgr localhost.localdomain 7554.45 6976.78 8604.40 7025.33 7267.02 36.49 6244.07 |
| 20:04.52 | ``Erik | vgr2 is a simulated 11/780 running 4.3BSD, I'm trying to tune the sim to give me the same results as the old hw |
| 20:05.11 | dtidrow_work | that's the laptop benchmark |
| 20:05.17 | ``Erik | you should have a summary file that explains all the results |
| 20:05.38 | dtidrow_work | hmmm, the 'summay' file just had what I pasted |
| 20:05.47 | ``Erik | there should be a lot more in it O.o |
| 20:06.10 | ``Erik | sorry, I'm wrong |
| 20:06.53 | ``Erik | when ya ran 'make benchmark', it should've printed all that out... |
| 20:06.58 | ``Erik | mebbe in your run- log? |
| 20:09.08 | ``Erik | here's what my run log for my desktop looks like... http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/mbef4b9d |
| 20:22.51 | dtidrow_work | ah, looks like I clobbered the binaries to free up some disk space - and probably killed the log file along with it |
| 20:23.05 | ``Erik | 'make clean' will delete the .log and .pix files |
| 20:25.21 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: how many cpus are on the box for that pastebin link? |
| 20:26.18 | ``Erik | um, 8 cores... two quad-core intel thingies |
| 20:27.01 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:27.17 | ``Erik | it does like 27000 vgr's when optimized |
| 20:27.27 | dtidrow_work | w00t! |
| 20:28.17 | dtidrow_work | wonder what the quad-core AMD's are gonna do... |
| 20:32.26 | ``Erik | I think my dual two-core 2.0ghz opteron gets around 11500ish? |
| 20:34.56 | dtidrow_work | so the first number in the '*vgr' line is how many vgr's your box compares to? |
| 20:35.34 | ``Erik | no, um, well... only for moss.g |
| 20:35.42 | ``Erik | the last one is the average |
| 20:35.48 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:36.32 | ``Erik | it's bench/run.sh if you wanna poke |
| 20:39.20 | ``Erik | <-- has no clue why you only got 36 vgr's on sphflake O.o |
| 21:23.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (90 files in 11 dirs): Upgrade to 1.2.21. Fixes several bugs introduced in 1.2.19, possible overflows, and has some code cleanup. |
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| 01:42.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: include deprecation.txt in dist |
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| 04:52.30 | brlcad | the baseline for sphereflake isn't normalized to the vax |
| 04:53.00 | brlcad | that's part of why it's pretty exciting getting a baseline vgr of 1 again so that sphflake can be renormalized |
| 04:55.37 | poolio | So is legacy code always going to be a part of BRL-CAD so you can establish a baseline vgr? |
| 04:56.39 | yukonbob | brlcad: you see my report about the artifacts still there w/ the rotated pipe (using latest (few hours old) HEAD (7.10.3)) |
| 04:57.37 | brlcad | poolio: no, the code has already changed quite dramatically .. but the baseline can still be run -- just using the old sources and/or old binaries |
| 04:57.47 | brlcad | the harder part is getting access to a vax :) |
| 04:57.58 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, I saw, but havne't looked at that |
| 04:58.15 | brlcad | i'm not exceptionally familiar with the pipe code .. that's more john's area |
| 04:58.31 | yukonbob | so long as it gets to where it needs to be... |
| 04:58.35 | brlcad | knee-jerk reaction is "don't do that" :) |
| 04:59.24 | yukonbob | heh -- I can shake the artifacts off w/ rot 0 1 0;rot 0 -1 0 |
| 05:00.37 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: 'summary' just retains the latest performance summary with the first line being a "Ray Trace Figure of Merit" (RTFM) that sort of amounts to rays per second, and the second line being the linear metric comparison to the base (called vgr) which amounts to how many VAX 11/780's you're machine's worth computationally |
| 05:00.42 | yukonbob | so I'm running 7.10.3 -- is that the latest fully buildable version -- you mentioned 7.11 was branched, but it's really near the start of it's life isn't it (only a few files present)? |
| 05:01.17 | brlcad | yeah, 7.10.3 is the latest, 7.11 is what's on head now, but it's not changed wrt pipes |
| 05:01.54 | brlcad | yeah, you are |
| 05:02.06 | yukonbob | have fun in California |
| 05:02.14 | brlcad | looks like it's just a refresh of the display list needed |
| 05:03.02 | brlcad | i.e., it's not "really" shifted like that .. just displaying the wireframe wrong |
| 05:03.30 | yukonbob | in 7.8.3 at least, unloading/reloading the db preserved the bad display... was weird. |
| 05:37.10 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r238 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientCommands.cpp: Fixed the op()/deop() bug. sf.net bug 1807356. |
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| 09:15.22 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: looks like now something changed in brl-cad. |
| 09:15.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: because I did CVS update and now it renders the "poisonous" ronja_new better. |
| 09:15.52 | Z80-Boy | Before the arbn was missing in the triangular plate |
| 09:16.00 | Z80-Boy | Now it's present but is bigger than should be |
| 09:16.12 | Z80-Boy | Looks like it has again something to do with unnormalized equation |
| 09:16.38 | Z80-Boy | Because the one boundary plane that is placed too much out is the one that was entered as not normalized . |
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| 10:12.57 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r239 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Some minor clean and typo fixes. |
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| 17:04.35 | brlcad | having trouble _jack- ? |
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| 17:11.08 | yukonbob | you in Cali now? |
| 17:21.34 | brlcad | nope |
| 17:21.52 | brlcad | i'm 70%, landed in Pheonix AZ .. |
| 17:21.59 | brlcad | and it looks like my flight to san jose is now delayed by at least an hour |
| 17:23.36 | Maloeran | Neat, are you going there on vacation? |
| 17:25.12 | brlcad | nah, google's sending me out for the summer of code summit |
| 17:25.23 | MinuteElectron | google? |
| 17:25.27 | brlcad | yeah |
| 17:25.33 | MinuteElectron | neat |
| 17:25.37 | Maloeran | Ah, interesting |
| 17:26.29 | brlcad | they'll be a rep from about 70% of the projects that participated: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/ |
| 17:27.05 | MinuteElectron | I can't wait until SoC 2008, maybe that time I will actually find out about it in time to participate in a project. |
| 17:27.09 | brlcad | there are a few devs I know in AU that are coming in for the summit too, looking forward to it |
| 17:27.16 | brlcad | ... though going to AU is way cooler ;) |
| 17:27.40 | MinuteElectron | indeed |
| 17:28.14 | Maloeran | :) I'll be going alone despites getting married in just 8 days, but I sure need the vacation and she's busy with her studies anyhow |
| 17:28.31 | brlcad | do you have a big countdown clock? |
| 17:28.36 | brlcad | the beginning of the end of your life ;) |
| 17:29.08 | Maloeran | Eheh |
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| 20:24.01 | *** join/#brlcad jgay (n=jgay__@c-71-233-31-177.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) | |
| 20:25.14 | jgay | hi, i'm from the Free Software Foundation, and we are thinking of puting BRL-CAD on our urgent list of software to be developed. Could anyone field a few questions? |
| 20:27.12 | MinuteElectron | Most of the people who hang around here are in and out all the time. brlcad is your main man but a few others have experience too. |
| 20:27.54 | jgay | MinuteElectron, cool. My questions are simple, though. Mainly, I was just wondering how active the project is |
| 20:28.38 | MinuteElectron | ``Erik: You here? |
| 20:29.50 | jgay | I mean, it seems like the best free software CAD program out there. And, it seems like the only one that is actively being developed. But, I'm not the best judge. |
| 20:30.37 | jgay | We generally have success in finding new developers for projects, so, if there is any advice on what kinds of developers you are looking for, etc, that'd be good. |
| 20:30.58 | MinuteElectron | You might have to wait a while, I don't really have the authority to answer questions regarding such things. I am just the website developer. |
| 20:31.45 | MinuteElectron | brlcad is currently on his way to California so probably won't be active for a good few hours\days. |
| 20:32.14 | jgay | oh ok |
| 20:32.20 | dtidrow_work | what's he going out there for? |
| 20:32.34 | MinuteElectron | Google Summer of Code 2008 summit. |
| 20:32.47 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:33.08 | MinuteElectron | s/2008/2007 |
| 20:33.19 | jgay | oh neat, did brlcad do a project? |
| 20:33.19 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:33.31 | dtidrow_work | that's what I was wondering |
| 20:33.33 | MinuteElectron | jgay: No, BZFlag. |
| 20:33.34 | jgay | *mentor |
| 20:33.36 | jgay | oh ok |
| 20:33.53 | MinuteElectron | brlcad is the project manager for both projects. |
| 20:35.00 | jgay | dtidrow_work, can you tell me anything about the varius licenses. Is there a lot under the BSD license, or is that just some random bits? |
| 20:35.13 | jgay | I know it's mostly under the LGPL, but I just want to survey what's waht |
| 20:35.15 | jgay | *waht |
| 20:35.40 | jgay | MinuteElectron, neat . . . is he a volunteer or is he part of the army research office? |
| 20:36.18 | MinuteElectron | He is part of the army research office for BRL-CAD as far as I know, BZflag is just a hobby IIRC. |
| 20:36.39 | dtidrow_work | jgay: dunno about the BRL-CAD licensing details, that's more of a brlcad question |
| 20:37.58 | jgay | dtidrow_work, cool. Do youknow anything about how active the project is being developed? |
| 20:38.06 | jgay | I will save more detailed development questions for brlcad |
| 20:38.15 | jgay | like, what things need help, etc |
| 20:39.14 | dtidrow_work | it's pretty active - ARL has several developers working on it, IIUC |
| 20:40.03 | jgay | I can't believe I didn't know about this project, sooner |
| 20:40.09 | jgay | I mean, it's older than the GNU Project! |
| 20:40.28 | dtidrow_work | well, it hasn't been GPL-ed for very long |
| 20:40.46 | dtidrow_work | 4-5 years or so |
| 20:41.15 | dtidrow_work | but the guts have been worked on for something like 25-30 years |
| 20:42.50 | dtidrow_work | that's why they still use a VAX 11/780 as the baseline to compare against - gives them historical continuity |
| 20:43.19 | jgay | MinuteElectron, did you also do the delta3d homepage? Both look great. |
| 20:43.33 | jgay | haha, nice, VAX |
| 20:43.34 | dtidrow_work | high-end desktop computers are nearly four orders of magnitude faster than the old 780 |
| 20:44.14 | dtidrow_work | jgay: I need to get back to messing around with delta3d |
| 20:44.28 | dtidrow_work | I mostly work with OSG, which Delta3D is based on |
| 20:44.46 | jgay | is there a relationship between these two projects? |
| 20:44.49 | jgay | what's OSG? |
| 20:45.01 | dtidrow_work | OpenSceneGraph |
| 20:45.36 | dtidrow_work | kind of an open-source Performer (if you know what Performer is :-) |
| 20:48.04 | jgay | nope, don't know what Performer is |
| 20:48.42 | dtidrow_work | do you know what a scenegraph is, at least? |
| 20:49.29 | MinuteElectron | MinuteElectron: Oh, no. brlcad did all the imagery, I did the coding. |
| 20:49.59 | MinuteElectron | There is a new site though http://my.brlcad.org/ - not finished yet. |
| 20:50.21 | jgay | i don't know what a scenegraph is |
| 20:50.34 | jgay | I've never had a programming job that involved a real GUI :-) |
| 20:51.26 | jgay | MinuteElectron: you just sent yourself a message :-) |
| 20:51.33 | louipc | BRL-CAD documentation has a special license 'BDL' |
| 20:51.40 | louipc | BSD Documentation License |
| 20:51.46 | MinuteElectron | jgay: I know, it was aimed at you lol./ |
| 20:51.46 | jgay | interesting |
| 20:51.57 | louipc | jgay: do you have a copy of the code? |
| 20:52.01 | jgay | yeah |
| 20:52.08 | jgay | louipc |
| 20:53.10 | louipc | should be in share/doc/legal |
| 20:53.10 | dtidrow_work | jgay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_graph |
| 20:53.16 | louipc | or sorry doc/legal |
| 20:53.33 | dtidrow_work | http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/scenegraph/ - better pics here |
| 20:53.37 | jgay | louipc, I figured out the three licenses. I was just trying to get a real sense of how much stuff is under the BSD |
| 20:54.10 | louipc | FSF is anti-BSD eh? :P |
| 20:54.32 | jgay | louipc, well, I wouldn't put it that way :-) |
| 20:55.19 | MinuteElectron | I gotta run. |
| 20:56.13 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:56.14 | louipc | the geometric models, images, and other data resources are also |
| 20:56.14 | louipc | provided under the BSD license. Refer to each individual file for |
| 20:56.17 | louipc | specific terms. |
| 20:56.25 | jgay | louipc, ok, cool, thanks! |
| 20:56.27 | louipc | and buildfiles |
| 20:57.45 | louipc | it would be awesome to get more devs sweet |
| 20:58.17 | jgay | louipc, yeah, I hope we can get some. I am checking with my boss that we can go ahead and make this a high priority project and put a call out |
| 20:58.28 | louipc | jgay: http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page |
| 20:58.36 | louipc | check out that app too |
| 20:58.47 | louipc | that's on my list of 'things that should be developed' :D |
| 20:59.10 | louipc | see.. I'm a machinist hehe so these are apps I need/want |
| 20:59.18 | jgay | oh, neat :-) |
| 20:59.24 | jgay | My friend is doing this project: http://interreality.org/ |
| 20:59.28 | jgay | and he's pretty far along with it |
| 20:59.35 | jgay | but that is unrelated |
| 20:59.48 | louipc | ah ok |
| 21:00.16 | jgay | louipc, I don't think gcam will get on our high priority projects |
| 21:00.23 | louipc | cool, seems more for entertainment |
| 21:00.40 | louipc | aww.. |
| 21:00.53 | jgay | louipc, he's bad at marketing, it's pretty serious under the hood |
| 21:01.08 | louipc | there's no good open source CAM software though :/ |
| 21:01.35 | louipc | you know what I don't understand is that companies and schools would save TONS of money on licensing fees if they got together and developed this stuff |
| 21:01.46 | jgay | louipc, can't you "just" throw a plug-in of sorts into brl-cad? |
| 21:02.10 | louipc | the license for a single installation can be $20,000 or more |
| 21:02.33 | jgay | louipc, I know, that's one of the things I want to start talking more about . . . getting out to schools, ngos, companies, orgs, etc, and talk about ways of pooling money and contributing to the development of these great projects |
| 21:02.38 | louipc | plus $5000 for upgrades |
| 21:02.48 | jgay | it will take some time, though, the FSF has a small staff and a lot of things we are working on |
| 21:02.55 | louipc | and the quality of the commercial stuff isn't always that great |
| 21:03.08 | louipc | yeah |
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| 21:13.27 | dtidrow_work | hmmm, wonder what's up with that |
| 21:13.37 | louipc | Excess Flood |
| 21:26.51 | dtidrow_work | but why is it happening? spam attack? |
| 21:27.29 | archivist | copy pasting too large an amount |
| 21:27.32 | Maloeran | Someone got broken scripts in his IRC client, probably |
| 21:30.22 | dtidrow_work | was thinking it was some sort of bot spam attack |
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| 21:43.51 | ``Erik | nah, probably in too many channels |
| 21:44.15 | ``Erik | happens to me on efnet at times, like a dozen channel and if I get disconnected, the autojoin on reconnect cycles me like that |
| 21:44.23 | louipc | oh yeah hah ouch |
| 21:44.26 | ``Erik | and then I get banned for many months cuz mal doesn't listen when I msg him |
| 21:44.27 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:48.49 | ``Erik | heh, fsf 'urgent' project? O.o nutty |
| 21:49.15 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, there was trep in #opengl asking for Scheme stuff |
| 21:49.39 | Maloeran | A very old regular appearing from nowhere |
| 21:50.10 | ``Erik | gcam is pretty nifty stuff, and it can't just be a plugin for a cad system, you have to actually figure out how to move the bit around... gcam does it with a fem type simulator |
| 21:55.15 | ``Erik | jgay: not much code is under BSD (mostly stuff in the 'contrib' dir iirc).... and http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
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| 22:01.12 | louipc | fem = ? |
| 22:01.34 | archivist | finite element modeling |
| 22:01.50 | louipc | ``Erik: you could build an app around BRL-CAD libs though eh? |
| 22:02.53 | ``Erik | erm, of course... |
| 22:37.08 | ``Erik | oi, dude, they set ya up in a decent hotel? (and read the backscroll) |
| 22:38.41 | brlcad | not too shabby actually, definitely a "high" three star |
| 22:38.57 | brlcad | there's even like three free intarwebs here |
| 22:40.02 | brlcad | there's enough room for at least like 3 or 4 girls with me in the bed |
| 22:40.11 | brlcad | too bad none are attending this thing :) |
| 22:40.35 | brlcad | jgay: howdy! |
| 22:40.42 | louipc | at least they must be attending the bar... or some tables or something? |
| 22:42.26 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: not even 4-5 years, we're about to close out year 3 |
| 22:45.20 | brlcad | jgay: there's more details in the COPYING file, see http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/COPYING |
| 22:46.44 | brlcad | but the gist is that the entire package is under the LGPL with the exception of the build infrastructure, some scripts, data files, and some of the documentation |
| 22:48.01 | brlcad | basically any of the stuff that is completely "peripheral" and could disappear on a moment's notice, or that we wouldn't even care if someone tried to sell it because it's prevalently available in other places, is under BSD |
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| 22:49.09 | brlcad | the actual sources to BRL-CAD are almost entirely under LGPL, save a few grandfathered files that arein the public domain |
| 22:50.30 | ``Erik | lgpl for libs, gpl for bins, I thought |
| 22:51.48 | louipc | I didn't think anything is in gpl anymore |
| 22:51.49 | brlcad | all lgpl now |
| 22:51.56 | louipc | :D |
| 22:52.06 | louipc | oh let me put my glasses on |
| 22:52.09 | louipc | 8D |
| 22:54.00 | brlcad | the problem was actually with ARL .. we couldn't refactor front-end gpl code into the libraries without causing problems ... and gpl libs are an outright non-starter for brl-cad's primary user and supporter (i.e. arl) |
| 22:55.09 | ``Erik | hrm, I presume this was when I was a 'user' sorta? |
| 22:55.27 | louipc | would GPL count if it isn't distributed outside ARL? |
| 22:55.39 | brlcad | 7.10.0 |
| 22:56.27 | ``Erik | it's always been distributed out of ARL |
| 22:57.03 | brlcad | louipc: that's where (imho) it's rather questionable, since arl certainly "redistributes" to an extent (or at least wants that right) |
| 22:57.04 | louipc | no I mean the 'secret' stuff |
| 22:57.14 | louipc | ah |
| 22:58.24 | ``Erik | the non-public stuff is distributed outside of ARL, but with pretty strict constraints on who can see it, ugly license agreements... |
| 22:58.35 | louipc | of course |
| 22:58.37 | brlcad | so to have folks at arl contributing, and then arl distributing one of the brl-cad libraries with a binary version of one of the analysis codes (like muves or orca) .. they cannot do that if the libs were gpl |
| 22:58.54 | louipc | yea |
| 22:59.07 | brlcad | so yeah, libs as gpl is an absolute .. non-starter |
| 22:59.30 | brlcad | so in our best interest to be able to refactor back and forth from libs to front-end code and back, it really simplifies to make it all lgpl |
| 22:59.42 | louipc | why not all just BSD? |
| 22:59.49 | brlcad | aside from just making it freaking easier to talk about :) |
| 23:00.07 | louipc | hehe |
| 23:00.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:00.34 | brlcad | that's another perfectly viable option, but it doesn't buy us anything |
| 23:00.37 | ``Erik | gpl served the purposes |
| 23:00.56 | louipc | yeah no use changing it anymore |
| 23:01.55 | brlcad | that is one of the few areas where lgpl kinda serves a purpose.. i mean closed-source CAD is about a 5-10 billion dollar industry iirc, and the only difference of going to bsd would be that folks could use our code in closed codes without needing to share changes to our code (i.e. extensions) |
| 23:02.45 | ``Erik | *nod* and we want the full experience available to everyone |
| 23:02.51 | ``Erik | cuz we ROCK! |
| 23:03.09 | louipc | roxorz |
| 23:03.18 | brlcad | lgpl's a good balance of having everyone work on the same code without worries of what codes their hooking into, and with the assurance that nobody (in this expensive industry) is going to try to clam up and gain leverage -- encourages collaboration |
| 23:04.23 | ``Erik | industry amount aside, the big packages are like $20k-40k a seat |
| 23:04.34 | louipc | yep |
| 23:04.36 | louipc | or more |
| 23:05.06 | louipc | if you ask me schools/companies are stupid to not take initiative to develop open-source alternatives |
| 23:05.36 | ``Erik | if it weren't virtually impenetrable, I'd try to write up a cad system :D I wouldn't mind a garage full of ferraris |
| 23:05.49 | louipc | yeah! |
| 23:06.11 | louipc | well even GPL allows you to sell the software... |
| 23:06.27 | brlcad | yeah, it really is a massive market to make any sort of dent in |
| 23:06.49 | archivist | sexy gui will make the difference |
| 23:06.50 | brlcad | we could have 10x the activity, and we'd still be about a decade behind the commercial systems |
| 23:06.58 | louipc | archivist: yea definitely |
| 23:07.05 | brlcad | sexy gui will help get that 10x, if now 50x |
| 23:07.08 | brlcad | s/now/not/ |
| 23:07.28 | louipc | 90% more users |
| 23:07.45 | brlcad | 500% ;) |
| 23:07.46 | louipc | or uh more.. |
| 23:08.03 | louipc | yea |
| 23:08.30 | ``Erik | start writing the replacement for mged, archivist :D I can't wait to see your results |
| 23:08.40 | archivist | heh |
| 23:09.59 | brlcad | er, 5000% |
| 23:10.23 | brlcad | divide by 23, carry the one, add 82 .. |
| 23:10.27 | archivist | or more |
| 23:10.35 | brlcad | 5000% == 50x ;) |
| 23:11.17 | louipc | I will pick up dev one day.... |
| 23:11.37 | louipc | I'll probably work on drafting aspects :D |
| 23:12.37 | archivist | a "few" years ago |
| 23:12.41 | louipc | archivist: haha sweet that's the first programming I ever did |
| 23:13.05 | louipc | borland turbo pascal |
| 23:13.15 | archivist | I used that before C |
| 23:14.11 | ``Erik | <-- did basic and asm before C, thus is code-tarded |
| 23:14.16 | ``Erik | well |
| 23:14.26 | ``Erik | basic and mnemonics using a monitor on the c64 |
| 23:15.06 | archivist | SC/MP then PET for me |
| 23:15.10 | louipc | I found a printed copy of a WATFIV (fortran) program in my garage |
| 23:15.21 | louipc | from 77 :D |
| 23:16.00 | archivist | send a copy to bitsavers.org |
| 23:16.13 | louipc | will do once I type it up |
| 23:16.51 | louipc | I need to find something to compile it too |
| 23:17.20 | archivist | my debian box has fortran |
| 23:17.43 | archivist | g77 iirc |
| 23:17.53 | louipc | gcc-fortran is kickin still hey? |
| 23:18.20 | archivist | I was playing with it on my alpha so yes |
| 23:19.12 | louipc | yeah |
| 23:19.30 | ``Erik | can g77 do IV? O.o heh |
| 23:19.36 | louipc | university of waterloo's variation of it anyways |
| 23:19.43 | louipc | I haven't tried compiling it yet |
| 23:19.58 | archivist | fortran-- for its column specific sillyness |
| 23:20.25 | ``Erik | lots of languages from the era have that kinda silliness, archivist... take a look at, say, RPG |
| 23:20.28 | louipc | that has to do with punch cards though |
| 23:20.37 | louipc | in that case it made sense, not so much nowadays |
| 23:20.39 | ``Erik | don't look very close, you'll have to gouge your eyes out if you do |
| 23:22.36 | archivist | I may have RPG on punched cards in the loft at home from an IBM 1130 |
| 23:27.24 | ``Erik | I d'no, C was in the land of minis with interactive terminals for a long time |
| 23:27.34 | ``Erik | it was the unix programming language... :/ |
| 23:28.10 | louipc | yeah |
| 23:28.14 | jgay | brlcad, when you get a chance, would you mind emailing me at jgay@fsf.org |
| 23:28.31 | jgay | sorry I cut out earlier, I had to run out. |
| 23:28.46 | louipc | what would he email you about? |
| 23:28.48 | jgay | I'm signing off for the night right now, though. Look forward to chatting with you |
| 23:29.09 | ``Erik | heh, mebbe YOU should email HIM with your list of questions :D *duck* |
| 23:29.37 | brlcad | jgay: sure |
| 23:29.43 | louipc | otherwise he'd say "umm.. you asked me to email you. Hi. wasup?" |
| 23:29.46 | jgay | thanks |
| 23:30.07 | brlcad | anything in particular I should write? :) |
| 23:30.11 | jgay | louipc, exactly |
| 23:30.15 | louipc | lol |
| 23:30.21 | jgay | haha, i was just hoping to get your email address and starta discussion |
| 23:30.38 | louipc | jgay: join the brlcad-dev ML |
| 23:30.40 | louipc | ? |
| 23:30.40 | jgay | i want to put out a call to developers and make brl-cad a high priority project according to the FSF |
| 23:30.52 | louipc | jgay: yeah make your announcement there too |
| 23:30.55 | jgay | so i wanted to discuss with you some things about what kinds of developers, etc |
| 23:31.22 | jgay | louipc, yeah, I can do that. I'll discuss it on brlcad-dev ML if that makes sense. Are you brlcad's administrative assistant? |
| 23:31.25 | jgay | I'm confused :-P |
| 23:31.34 | louipc | jgay: I'm an interloper |
| 23:31.46 | jgay | OK, I'm off for the night. Hehe. Thanks guys! Sorry I ran out and then again! |
| 23:31.57 | louipc | cheers |
| 23:32.16 | louipc | administrative assistant = secretary? |
| 23:32.40 | archivist | usually yes |
| 23:33.22 | brlcad | assists in administration ;) |
| 23:35.01 | ``Erik | opposed to an administrator O.o |
| 23:35.05 | archivist | I hate these modern/higher terms being applied to pre-existing jobs |
| 23:35.25 | ``Erik | I guess we must've annoyed jgay to have him wanting to talk in email instead of channel :D |
| 23:35.54 | ``Erik | all in the name of political correctness O.o |
| 23:35.59 | louipc | those damned FSF commies |
| 23:36.25 | ``Erik | heh, I vagually recall something about drive channels being renamed in california? from master/slave to primary/secondary? O.o |
| 23:37.02 | ``Erik | http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/11/26/135701.php |
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| 00:16.27 | ``Erik | "The CVS version IS experimental, it may drink your milk, steal your cats or do other unexpected things (it shouldn't but it might, so just be warned)." |
| 00:18.47 | louipc | my cats steal my milk so maybe I'll come out on the plus side |
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| 04:02.45 | poolio | Which one of you is dannel? |
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| 05:00.42 | brlcad | dannel? |
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| 06:00.42 | starseeker | The point about schools etc. is a good one though - when my undergrad school went with PeopleSoft all I could think was how a few good students with some web chops and postgresql backend servers could do everything that was being done (at least that we could see) and do it for a small fraction of the millions we were paying... |
| 06:06.42 | starseeker | jgay must be talking about adding BRL-CAD to this list? http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html |
| 06:40.59 | brlcad | yeah |
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| 16:27.00 | starseeker | Can brlcad import dxf files? |
| 16:27.34 | starseeker | nevermind, I see it in the tutorial |
| 16:29.50 | starseeker | Cool - the project at http://sf.net/projects/dxf has some neat dxf files :-) |
| 16:34.07 | starseeker | All 2d, but still nifty... |
| 17:23.51 | brlcad | howdy starseeker |
| 17:31.02 | starseeker | howdy |
| 17:32.55 | yukonbob | starseeker: what's shaking my comrade-in-docbook? |
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| 20:07.55 | starseeker | yukonbob: Heh, sorry - out looking at car options |
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| 21:51.44 | yukonbob | hello, world |
| 22:20.11 | starseeker | yukonbob: hi y'all ;) |
| 23:09.22 | yukonbob | I want to learn a bit more about setting material or ray properties. Anybody who knows about these things want to chat? |
| 23:41.57 | brlcad | ray properties? |
| 23:43.36 | brlcad | material properties are set through the combination editor, there's a shader tab |
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| 00:08.55 | yukonbob | re: material properties -- I'm not talking about colours + textures, but attributes (like the .density material) |
| 00:42.19 | yukonbob | as I understand, ray "properties" or attributes are actually set in the module that _is_ that ray (ie: xray properties are set in the rtxray program. is it as simple as that?). However what if some materials allow xrays to pass more easily than others (ie: a 'flesh' material wrapping a 'bone' material; the two materials shouldn't have the same xray signature). |
| 00:43.47 | yukonbob | does one just setup attributes for ea. material and have the rt[blah] poll the material for that attribute, and if not found fall back to a default, or bail (depending on design)? |
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| 06:51.06 | brlcad | yukonbob: you're on the right track, but only a few of the tools understand that material type |
| 06:51.19 | brlcad | it basically is just a simple material identifier (i.e. a number) |
| 06:51.40 | brlcad | that number relates to a material type and a density |
| 06:53.03 | brlcad | which are either specified as a simple identifier to density mapping in an external file (e.g. rtweight) or as a table embedded into BRL-CAD (e.g. g_qa) |
| 06:55.56 | brlcad | at present, rtxray doesn't handle multiple densities. it basically presumes everything has the same density which iirc is specifically scaled so that it ranges from 1 to 255 per pixel. |
| 06:56.12 | brlcad | would be trivial to add, but nobody has asked/needed to date |
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| 17:23.24 | yukonbob | brlcad: thx for that info... I also played with rtrange, and I'm not sure that the plot file it generates is "good", as well as rttherm, which always seemed to bomb on me. |
| 17:47.48 | brlcad | rttherm does a different sort of ray-trace (actual multispectral) so I'm not too surprised with that .. not that it'd be too useful to you regardless |
| 17:48.04 | brlcad | though it .. shouldn't crash if the inputs are right, maybe a bug |
| 17:48.08 | brlcad | rarely tested |
| 17:58.30 | yukonbob | how's the West Coast treating you? |
| 17:59.34 | brlcad | well, I'm sitting by a pool right now, drink sitting nearby, laptop in lap .. crystal clear blue sky |
| 17:59.42 | brlcad | it's horrible |
| 18:00.33 | yukonbob | enjoy it... where's your usual home? |
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| 21:22.05 | yukonbob | what's the way to poll which elem a pixel is in when doing rtX analysis? |
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| 13:02.33 | ``Erik | blehhhh, .83 vgr |
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| 16:21.31 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r241 10/trunk/libirc/ (19 files in 2 dirs): 2004 -> 2007 |
| 16:58.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: add flag to disable autoview after drawing cloned objects |
| 17:20.06 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r242 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): |
| 17:20.06 | CIA-4 | libirc: make server client records be virtual so derived classes can create their own. |
| 17:20.06 | CIA-4 | libirc: stub out virtual channel classes. |
| 17:20.06 | CIA-4 | libirc: free any user classes we make when we disconnect. |
| 17:20.06 | CIA-4 | libirc: disconnect on destruction |
| 17:20.07 | CIA-4 | libirc: clean up some searches and typedefs for ease of use. |
| 17:41.45 | Maloeran | http://simulatedcomicproduct.com/2005/10/28/boxes/ |
| 17:41.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor cleanup/simplification of get_name() |
| 17:44.51 | ``Erik | DAMNIT, another webcomic to read the archives of and add to my snarf page :( |
| 17:44.53 | ``Erik | bastage |
| 17:47.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: use BUFSIZ instead of NAMESIZE to allow strings longer than 15 characters |
| 17:53.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: realloc() the new name to avoid wasting space |
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| 18:35.19 | Maloeran | Eheh Erik, I thought exactly that when pasting the url :) |
| 18:40.41 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r243 10/trunk/libirc/HACKING: mention the real IRC channel for the project now instead of #bzflag |
| 18:46.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r244 10/trunk/libirc/ (22 files in 2 dirs): |
| 18:46.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: whitespace |
| 18:46.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: free any allocated channel records when we disconnect |
| 18:46.22 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r245 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: log part and join events |
| 18:48.17 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r246 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: more whitespace |
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| 19:48.50 | ``Erik | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/forced.landings.ap/index.html |
| 19:48.51 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:50.13 | MinuteElectron | lol |
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| 20:31.27 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r247 10/trunk/libirc/ (9 files in 2 dirs): make event data structures all be called client data structures so they don't conflict with server event data. |
| 20:32.17 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r248 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: update to new spellings/names |
| 20:35.31 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r249 10/trunk/libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: update to new spellings/names |
| 20:37.50 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r250 10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/vc7.1/simpleIRCConnect.vcproj: build multi-threaded, and link the run-times dynamically. |
| 20:44.10 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r251 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/IRCClient.cpp): caps consistency |
| 21:15.09 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r252 10/trunk/libirc/ (7 files in 2 dirs): rename all the client specific command handlers to say client, so we don't conflict with the server ones that will be happening soon. |
| 21:15.31 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r253 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): hook in some basic command handler callbacks |
| 22:03.56 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r254 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): keep the things that are const, const |
| 22:04.40 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r255 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): call any registered command handlers when we get any IRC commands on the server |
| 22:18.06 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r256 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): allow registration of command handlers |
| 22:26.20 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r257 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h include/IRCEvents.h src/IRCClient.cpp): client events for clients, server events for servers |
| 23:30.17 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r258 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCEvents.h include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): |
| 23:30.17 | CIA-4 | libirc: setup high level event system for server |
| 23:30.17 | CIA-4 | libirc: add connection event. |
| 23:34.32 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r259 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCServer.cpp: consttastic |
| 01:31.39 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r260 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): get some command processing going |
| 01:31.59 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r261 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidServer/src/stupidServer.cpp: log all transactions |
| 01:32.09 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r262 10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/src/simpleIRCConnect.cpp: log all transactions |
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| 05:38.47 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r263 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCUserManager.h src/IRCUserManager.cpp): Commented out the area that is causing the segfaults. A dirty hack, but it'll be fixed later. |
| 06:03.52 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r264 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCUserManager.h: footer |
| 06:04.20 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r265 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: search the user records backwards, so that we can do erases and not need a fixed iterator. |
| 06:07.35 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r266 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCServer.h: set the hostname |
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| 06:08.30 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r267 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCServer.h: return the validitidy of said hostname |
| 06:11.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r268 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCClient.h: Removed a comment. |
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| 06:42.31 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r269 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: verify iterators exist before we remove them |
| 07:10.11 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r270 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: itrtastic. |
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| 12:40.58 | ``Erik | hummm |
| 12:41.01 | ``Erik | *vgr vgr2.brl.mil 1.24 1.11 .99 .99 .93 1.05 |
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| 13:58.12 | brlcad | awesomes! |
| 14:56.42 | ``Erik | that's at 345kips, doing 330 now to see if I can get the summary tuned down a little |
| 14:57.10 | ``Erik | the last few are the most time intensive, I have a feeling that the skew I'm seeing is due to using 'infinitely' fast disks, which I doubt vgr had |
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| 17:15.19 | ``Erik | xkcd rules |
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| 17:53.43 | tlhiv_laptop | i've installed brl-cad, but i'm not sure how to start the gui |
| 17:53.52 | tlhiv_laptop | i don't know what the name of the executable is? |
| 18:09.12 | ``Erik | "Like the British Navy, a computerized system is designed by geniuses to be run by morons." heh |
| 18:09.17 | ``Erik | "mged" is the one you want, tlhiv_laptop |
| 18:09.43 | tlhiv_laptop | ok ... i'm going to recompile the latest version anyway ... i'll launch that one when it's done |
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| 19:39.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: how'd the second run go? |
| 19:39.55 | ``Erik | still running |
| 19:39.59 | ``Erik | on world.pix |
| 19:40.16 | ``Erik | vgr was sssllloooowwwww compared to what we use now... |
| 19:40.43 | brlcad | figured .. takes like an hour an image iirc? |
| 19:41.02 | ``Erik | moss takes around 30-40 minutes, m35 takes a couple hours |
| 19:41.31 | ``Erik | john said they usually ran it overnight |
| 19:41.31 | brlcad | sphereflake will probably take half a day then :) |
| 19:42.15 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 19:42.44 | ``Erik | and I hope to run it a few times to make sure I get reasonably consistent numbers |
| 19:47.10 | brlcad | hm, by the original numbers ( moss=41min bldg=106min world=109min star=93min m35=154min ) .. that means sphflake should be.. |
| 19:47.47 | brlcad | try the machine under cpu and then disk load too .. see if it affects simh |
| 19:48.12 | brlcad | to know if it needs to be set up clean-room like or if it's good regardless |
| 19:48.36 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-72-158.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:49.50 | ``Erik | I've been making sure there isn't any real load on the machine anyways *shrug* :/ kermit is going to try to find the system configuration file and details on the tuning and hw for the original |
| 19:50.18 | brlcad | looks like it should be about 176 minutes for sphflake if I remember the vgr count correctly for the reference box |
| 19:52.30 | ``Erik | I'm figuring if the average on this run is within 5%, I'll do a sphflake.log and drop it in, then if we can get it tuned better (mebbe witht he right drive emulated), do another sphflake... I'm hoping one run on vgr2 will be better than the current, and will get us the 95% mark on 'right'... |
| 19:52.46 | ``Erik | but that last 5% is 95% of the effort :) |
| 20:06.33 | brlcad | yeah, there's a diminishing payoff after too much effort |
| 20:07.12 | brlcad | even the 1.05 isn't too bad, I could see it being slightly slower or (more likely) slightly faster |
| 20:07.41 | ``Erik | if this run is better than 1.05, I'm calling it good... takes too much time :) |
| 20:08.34 | brlcad | the only difference is that once it is normalized, it should make a massive impact on the final vgr |
| 20:08.58 | brlcad | since right now, it's effectively lost in the average as a near-zero result in comparison |
| 20:09.06 | ``Erik | um, I'm tuning the machine against 4.3, so sphflake isn't impacting the results |
| 20:09.29 | brlcad | i mean correcting current to actually be a "vgr" reference |
| 20:09.30 | ``Erik | now all the modern results will change |
| 20:09.35 | brlcad | instead of the O2 I'd used |
| 20:09.44 | brlcad | right, that's what I mean |
| 20:09.52 | ``Erik | and that's a good thing |
| 20:09.54 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:09.59 | ``Erik | </marthastewert> |
| 20:10.00 | brlcad | it is |
| 20:10.39 | brlcad | it'll be a little wonky at first for those familiar with the old numbers, but makes current hardware actually correllate (instead of being artificially deflated) |
| 20:11.00 | brlcad | increasing the modern/current vgr counts by about 1/6th |
| 20:11.35 | brlcad | everyones machines will suddenly get 5% faster |
| 20:12.14 | ``Erik | erm, 1/6 > 5% |
| 20:12.17 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:25.52 | *** part/#brlcad tlhiv_laptop (n=foo@c-68-63-25-78.hsd1.al.comcast.net) | |
| 20:46.54 | brlcad | er, 16% |
| 20:47.15 | brlcad | divide by 18, carry the one, subtract 12 .. |
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| 21:14.55 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 21:16.19 | starseeker | of course, I hadn't rebooted in a month or more... |
| 21:23.30 | ``Erik | O.o still shouldn't crash, I've run happy machines for over a year without anything like that... hell, I even managed a linux machine up over a year (but not running X) |
| 21:24.28 | ``Erik | with my fbsd boxen, the only downtimes I've seen (on a stable version, not my unstable hacking version) are power outages, kernel upgrade, hw upgrade, and nvidias binary driver *cough* |
| 21:24.31 | starseeker | It was something funny about mouse/menu interactions I think... |
| 21:24.48 | starseeker | I probably hit some weird corner case |
| 21:25.57 | starseeker | Accidental click/drag/click-fast/wiggle or something... |
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| 22:33.11 | starseeker | brlcad: Back home yet? |
| 22:36.19 | louipc | openoffice oh no |
| 22:36.27 | starseeker | hehe. |
| 22:36.52 | starseeker | Well, it's still better than MS Office and sometimes one has to communicate with that side... |
| 22:50.22 | louipc | yeah I need to set up a session manager |
| 23:09.07 | ``Erik | 'screen' is awesome like that. |
| 23:11.05 | louipc | screen doesn't save X sessions does it? |
| 23:11.37 | ``Erik | no, but it retains your console |
| 23:11.52 | ``Erik | so unless thte machine reboots, you don't lose anything |
| 23:12.13 | louipc | yeah I use multiple terms + screen |
| 23:12.50 | louipc | but I have to re create the windows if for some reason X acts up |
| 23:16.22 | ``Erik | I tend to have one big honkin' xterm with screen running in it |
| 23:16.44 | ``Erik | so I can detach, go to work, ssh in and screen -r to be back where I was |
| 23:16.49 | ``Erik | and visa versa |
| 00:59.08 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, hogar dulce hogar |
| 00:59.45 | brlcad | summer of code summit was awesome, hopefully I can get this project to participate next year |
| 00:59.52 | brlcad | or we can start one of our own |
| 02:01.20 | ``Erik | even worse than spring break for geeks :D |
| 02:04.14 | ``Erik | southpark, w00t |
| 02:11.55 | brlcad | winter break is no longer practically possible regardless if I had to guess; we're running out of time |
| 02:12.03 | brlcad | maybe still for january ( one month program ) |
| 02:12.04 | brlcad | but that's pushing it |
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| 03:58.02 | ``Erik | winter break is a weak, and parents expects kids to swing by home... computer geeks are probably more likely to be at the whim of parents than non-geeks |
| 03:58.28 | ``Erik | it's not 2 weeks of sitting around bored, there're flights, drives, family, etc ... |
| 04:17.51 | louipc | damn I remember getting a month off |
| 07:09.44 | brlcad | I got a month off every year, even more if you counted the last days in december (though I wouldn't) -- same for friends in a half dozen other schools |
| 07:10.06 | brlcad | technically it was winter session, sometimes even could take a short course and get some credits out of the way |
| 07:11.46 | brlcad | either way, it's not meant to be perfect, it would have been simply to identify with a market that didn't overlap with google's program and *could* work, which it pretty much could regardless of whether you really like it .. |
| 07:12.22 | brlcad | summer isn't ideal either for tons of reasons |
| 07:12.37 | brlcad | i'd actually think we should do both, run a month long and run a 3 month program |
| 07:12.48 | brlcad | cater to different groups |
| 07:12.54 | brlcad | different needs |
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| 08:00.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, don't forget to credit adam ross too .. the original author did have a bit of influence on the implementation. also mention erik upgrading bundled libpng to 1.2.21 |
| 08:03.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: |
| 08:03.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: rip out the dead code. it's in CVS is someone ever really does need it to be |
| 08:03.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: reinstated, but the restart code would need modifications for preserving proper |
| 08:03.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: gamma correction regardless. so in leu of compile-time disabling it, just take |
| 08:03.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the code out and simply for now. |
| 10:30.42 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 11:55.43 | ``Erik | damn, a month? I got jipped, my bday is in mid december and I remember finals week was also starting up during it (like my first final after dropping back into school was the day after my 21st... sucked), and the first week of jan was when classes started up :/ |
| 12:52.36 | blandwidth | brlcad: regarding the last commit - good |
| 12:52.55 | blandwidth | Dead Code Elimination, lol :) |
| 13:08.30 | ``Erik | heh, I was gonna get around to it... y'know... eventually |
| 13:09.41 | ``Erik | #if 0 did the job, too *shrug8 but yeah, it's in cvs so it's not lost |
| 13:09.46 | ``Erik | bahhhhh *vgr vgr2.brl.mil .94 .83 .75 .74 .70 .79 |
| 13:46.21 | ``Erik | <grantk> What do you call a bunch of nerds arguing on the internet |
| 13:46.21 | ``Erik | <PetrDoubt> "the internet" |
| 13:49.04 | brlcad | eek, that was with the 5 Hz tweak? |
| 13:49.11 | ``Erik | 345 -> 330 |
| 13:49.14 | brlcad | ahh |
| 13:49.44 | ``Erik | a 4.5% change causing a 33% change in result :( |
| 13:50.02 | blandwidth | Nerdic Walking |
| 13:50.27 | ``Erik | I think if this'll be useful, I'll have to do some heavy sampling |
| 13:59.07 | ``Erik | "It was like teabagging a bear cub in front of its mother. The sheer audacity is the only thing that saved him." hehehehehe |
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| 16:52.20 | thing0 | ``Erik: |
| 16:52.24 | thing0 | sorry |
| 16:52.30 | thing0 | trying autocomplete names in pidgin |
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| 18:42.02 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: here? |
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| 19:18.37 | angasule | hello |
| 19:46.28 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 20:21.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/debian/.cvsignore: ignore generated changelog |
| 20:23.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: flush stdout/stderr just for good measure. |
| 20:24.37 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: ! |
| 20:28.33 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 20:37.21 | starseeker | yukonbob: Around? |
| 20:37.40 | yukonbob | hey starseeker |
| 20:39.46 | starseeker | How goes it? |
| 20:40.01 | starseeker | Sorry about not being around - life has gotten... exciting of late |
| 20:41.24 | yukonbob | Hrmm... |
| 20:41.48 | yukonbob | not too bad here -- winter's set in by the look of it -- nothing too exciting going on... |
| 20:50.25 | starseeker | Heh - between work and my car it's been rather wild. |
| 20:52.54 | yukonbob | what's your work that it's "wild"? |
| 20:54.26 | brlcad | angasule: howdy |
| 20:54.30 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes |
| 20:55.42 | yukonbob | hey brlcad |
| 20:57.50 | starseeker | yukonbob: They like assigning projects that are outside my training, and don't let me finish ones that ARE inside my training |
| 20:57.50 | starseeker | brlcad: Glad to hear the summer of code meeting went well :-) |
| 20:57.50 | yukonbob | starseeker: ...is it interesting, or frustrating? |
| 20:57.52 | starseeker | yukonbob: With enough time and resources, it would be interesting. As it is... |
| 20:58.28 | ``Erik | heh, so you have a real job... ok? :LD |
| 20:58.29 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:58.52 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 20:59.06 | brlcad | starseeker: it went great! |
| 20:59.10 | starseeker | ``Erik: Heh -pretty much |
| 20:59.17 | starseeker | brlcad: Excellent :-) |
| 20:59.18 | brlcad | already looking forward to doing it again next year |
| 20:59.30 | starseeker | What are your "A list" projects? |
| 20:59.42 | brlcad | for all of the hard work it took mentoring all of the students, the summit was one of the highlight return on investments |
| 20:59.51 | brlcad | BRL-CAD? |
| 20:59.53 | brlcad | BZFlag? :) |
| 20:59.57 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 21:00.11 | starseeker | I was thinking BRL-CAD, but bzflag is important too ;-) |
| 21:00.26 | ``Erik | probably more important |
| 21:00.33 | brlcad | there were lots of really good projects at the summit, just about every major OSS project was represented in some fashion |
| 21:00.59 | starseeker | "Deadline THIS Bob!" |
| 21:01.21 | starseeker | brlcad: Wow. What a neat opportunity to talk to the key players :-) |
| 21:02.03 | brlcad | text? |
| 21:02.14 | starseeker | You mean labels on models? |
| 21:02.28 | ``Erik | telnet bzflag.bz 32010 |
| 21:02.31 | brlcad | like annotations or wireframe text labels in the 3d scene? |
| 21:02.31 | ``Erik | > turn left |
| 21:02.32 | ``Erik | > fire |
| 21:02.56 | yukonbob | for labels in renderings, etc. Like povray -- so I could 'in mytitle text font size style "this is my text"', or similar... |
| 21:02.57 | brlcad | aww, connection refused :) |
| 21:03.09 | ``Erik | MSG from brlcad: get off my fucking server, twit! |
| 21:03.12 | ``Erik | *disconnected* |
| 21:03.14 | ``Erik | $ |
| 21:03.28 | brlcad | yukonbob: there already is a title -- the "title" command :) |
| 21:03.39 | brlcad | just doesn't display in the renderings (currently) |
| 21:03.57 | brlcad | talked about adding a "2D" overlay/annotation primitive |
| 21:04.04 | brlcad | that's on the ideas list to implement |
| 21:04.09 | yukonbob | brlcad: hrmm... /me will look into that -- I mentioned this before, but got no mention of 'title' (and didn't stumble/recognize it in browsing manuals) |
| 21:04.22 | brlcad | wouldn't even really be that hard -- the only trick is figuring out how it would interact with the ray-tracer if at all |
| 21:04.36 | brlcad | title is just that, a title that is set on geometry |
| 21:05.00 | brlcad | it's displayed in various places (like in the log during ray-tracing or as the window title in the geometry browser) |
| 21:05.05 | yukonbob | ..oh -- _that_ title -- ya -- I know that -- what about arbitrary text pasted as a renderable object, though... |
| 21:05.17 | brlcad | yeah, that'd be the new feature to add |
| 21:05.35 | brlcad | would be an excellent summer of code project idea :) |
| 21:05.44 | louipc | hmm how would that work? |
| 21:06.02 | brlcad | shouldn't take more than a month or so if they were familiar with coding |
| 21:06.14 | yukonbob | louipc: /me imagines it rendering TT fonts... a la povray |
| 21:06.30 | brlcad | yeah, that's slightly more tricky, but not impossible |
| 21:07.02 | starseeker | Would that be converting ttf structure to brlcad geometry? |
| 21:07.02 | louipc | would it make a texture on an invisible plane? |
| 21:07.21 | brlcad | I got true type font rendering in bzflag now via ftgl and freetype2, you could do something similar where you composite a rendered image with the font |
| 21:07.52 | brlcad | depends, whether you want it to be annotative or actually part of the scene, as a means to help model 3D text in the scene |
| 21:08.15 | brlcad | I wasn't thinking of making it 3D geometry just yet, annotations are a little more important |
| 21:08.16 | louipc | the text should be modifyable |
| 21:08.54 | poolio | alloo |
| 21:09.07 | louipc | salut |
| 21:09.10 | poolio | ca va? |
| 21:09.13 | yukonbob | ya -- annotations would be nice -- it's already done w/ the wireframes (axes, for example)... which would be nice to get semantics for display w/ rt setup... |
| 21:09.31 | starseeker | Sounds like in image editors - one layer for annotations which is otherwise transparent layered over the "image" |
| 21:09.35 | brlcad | another excellent form of implicit modelling -- the text correllates with some 3D shape implicitly depending on a specified font, position, and orientation |
| 21:09.51 | yukonbob | re: modifiable -- could be setup as attributes to objects... totally modifiable in that case... |
| 21:10.35 | yukonbob | actually, in that case, perhaps one could build a completely seperate tool that could query the DB, develop the text part, and make a composite image? |
| 21:11.17 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:11.19 | louipc | poolio: ca va |
| 21:11.24 | brlcad | i think there's several viable ways |
| 21:11.26 | brlcad | with their tradeoffs |
| 21:12.06 | yukonbob | rt -o foo.pix model.g object; rtanno -i foo.pix -o newfoo.pix model.g object; |
| 21:13.35 | brlcad | yeah, had almost the exact same idea, cept it's labelled as rtannotate at the moment ;) |
| 21:13.47 | yukonbob | ;0 |
| 21:13.50 | yukonbob | ;), rather |
| 21:14.28 | starseeker | The beauty of tab completion on the command line :-) - no more is obscurity needed |
| 21:15.01 | yukonbob | starseeker: not everybody uses bash :( |
| 21:15.31 | louipc | yukonbob: what do you use? |
| 21:15.36 | yukonbob | sh |
| 21:15.39 | louipc | whoa |
| 21:15.40 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:15.45 | louipc | hah! |
| 21:15.52 | starseeker | yukonbob: Well, if they seek out pain... |
| 21:15.57 | louipc | I don't even have sh |
| 21:16.13 | yukonbob | louipc: are you running a l00nucks? |
| 21:17.21 | starseeker | Guaranteed to defeat hackers as their brains explode trying to figure it out... |
| 21:17.22 | louipc | yukonbob: sh is a symlink to bash. No I'm running linux |
| 21:17.39 | ``Erik | heh, using 'creat' instead of 'create' is considered a mistake by the dude who wrote it (I forgot if that was thompson, ritchie, or who...) |
| 21:19.28 | yukonbob | ``Erik: yeh -- I remember reading an interview w/ Ritchie I believe, who considered not adding the 'e' the mistake he made with Unix... |
| 21:21.49 | yukonbob | sh is required by posix, whether it's traditional sh, or the gnu bastardized version... |
| 21:21.49 | ``Erik | bt I hv n prblm wth nt sng vwls n th nx trdtn |
| 21:21.49 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 21:21.49 | ``Erik | as long as the sh supports the minimal set of things a sh needs to do, it's generally considered "ok" |
| 21:21.49 | ``Erik | as defined by posix.1 |
| 21:21.49 | yukonbob | gah -- I'd rthaer raed smoehtnig wtih all the ltetrs mxied up... |
| 21:22.49 | ``Erik | heh, when ti doesn't segfault :D |
| 21:23.00 | brlcad | it' doesn't any more does it? |
| 21:23.14 | brlcad | i'd not had any problems since the fix |
| 21:23.15 | ``Erik | no, john fixed that |
| 21:23.25 | yukonbob | speaking of segfaults -- brlcad did you see that I revisited my earlier dsp issue (out of mem) and found it to be the same? |
| 21:23.32 | ``Erik | it'd be nice if it understood something about the input it's trying to complete |
| 21:23.37 | ``Erik | so opendb would complete on the filesystem |
| 21:23.40 | ``Erik | etc |
| 21:24.05 | ``Erik | and I have a suspicion that performance will suffer tab completing on large geometries, I think it's O(n) on names right now |
| 21:24.14 | brlcad | yukonbob: in all honesty, it's not gotten an honest slice of my attention in the debugger just yet other than to verify that confirming that it did look like a bug |
| 21:24.16 | ``Erik | using lsearch in tcl I think |
| 21:24.41 | brlcad | easy enough to test.. |
| 21:24.54 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: tab-completion? Woohoo! |
| 21:25.26 | ``Erik | 8 wheels and a keg party in the back? |
| 21:25.45 | louipc | hm? |
| 21:25.54 | ``Erik | the 'real model' :) |
| 21:27.24 | ``Erik | I did a tab completion thing in some code once upon a time, ended up using a trie because I had an obscenely slow machine :) |
| 21:27.45 | Z80-Boy | one could also use burrows-wheeler transform for tab completion |
| 21:27.47 | ``Erik | <-- points out that brlcad's desktop is *WAY* faster than dwaynes desktop *cough* |
| 21:27.56 | Z80-Boy | it would actually learn the things the user uses the most |
| 21:28.02 | brlcad | hm, seems to work fine with several hundred matches |
| 21:28.07 | brlcad | not even a blip on the cpu |
| 21:28.16 | ``Erik | how many million parts? |
| 21:28.58 | brlcad | dunno, just tried a few interactive |
| 21:29.23 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: if I have an unpushed matrix in a combination whose one part is an arbn then which functions are used? |
| 21:29.34 | ``Erik | *shrug* until someone complains, it's not an issue :) |
| 21:29.40 | Z80-Boy | it it like the ray is transformed through the matrix and then shot at the arbn? |
| 21:29.43 | ``Erik | just wanted to note that it might be one eventually |
| 21:29.50 | Z80-Boy | Or the arbn is transformed once and then rays shot at it? |
| 21:31.48 | Z80-Boy | Is this right? |
| 21:31.49 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:31.50 | brlcad | hm, okay .. so it's choked on 16 copies of the entire t62 with every primitive renamed with an 'a' suffix (took about 15 seconds) |
| 21:32.05 | Z80-Boy | Isn't there something missing around the aip->eqn[i][3];? |
| 21:32.24 | brlcad | but at that point, even 'tops' takes about 15 seconds |
| 21:32.36 | Z80-Boy | why is it called norm_dist when aip->eqn[i][3]; is unnormalized? |
| 21:32.40 | Z80-Boy | Or is it normalized before? |
| 21:33.46 | ``Erik | take a shower? |
| 21:35.06 | Z80-Boy | I guess the code is wrong. |
| 21:35.54 | Z80-Boy | does VDOT do just a plain dot product? |
| 21:36.51 | brlcad | iirc, all of the norm() routines assume a normalized vector |
| 21:37.00 | brlcad | so that it doesn't have to check/compute it |
| 21:37.12 | Z80-Boy | this is norm_ variable, not a norm_routine |
| 21:37.14 | brlcad | that was a performance tweak a long time ago that made a big difference |
| 21:37.26 | *** part/#brlcad angasule (n=angasule@190.49.222.207) | |
| 21:37.43 | brlcad | where is that line you pasted? |
| 21:37.50 | brlcad | in what routine? |
| 21:37.57 | Z80-Boy | rt_arbn_shot |
| 21:38.15 | Z80-Boy | I guess the last term has to be either divided or multiplied by the length of the plane vector |
| 21:38.24 | Z80-Boy | cause it's possible to enter the plane vectors unnormalized |
| 21:38.36 | Z80-Boy | -or- renormalize the plane vectors after they have been entered |
| 21:38.42 | brlcad | yeah |
| 21:38.47 | Z80-Boy | so that's the bug? |
| 21:38.49 | brlcad | are you running into a different problem? |
| 21:38.58 | brlcad | john had fixed the other one iirc |
| 21:39.03 | Z80-Boy | I am running into a problem that my Ronja holder looks different than it should |
| 21:39.06 | brlcad | that was related to normalized vectors |
| 21:39.10 | Z80-Boy | because I used an unnormalized plane in arbn |
| 21:39.24 | Z80-Boy | which one it was? |
| 21:39.30 | brlcad | i thought it was that one |
| 21:39.32 | brlcad | are you up to date? |
| 21:39.36 | Z80-Boy | this one is the "mirroring arbn produces a different shape" bug |
| 21:39.43 | Z80-Boy | I checked the bugtracker it's still marked open |
| 21:39.49 | Z80-Boy | Checked it today |
| 21:39.58 | brlcad | hmm |
| 21:40.04 | Z80-Boy | and it still compiles Ronja wrong |
| 21:40.07 | brlcad | then maybe confusing it with a differnt one you posted |
| 21:40.11 | Z80-Boy | just did update - it's till in the CVS |
| 21:41.04 | brlcad | k |
| 21:41.26 | Z80-Boy | the VDOT between a shot ray and plane normal produces what exactly? |
| 21:41.31 | Z80-Boy | A projection! |
| 21:44.44 | Z80-Boy | the plane basically stays the same if you multiply all 4 numbers by some constant, right? |
| 21:44.58 | Z80-Boy | ax+by+cz+d=0 |
| 21:45.34 | Z80-Boy | If you do it the VDOT grows by the same constant as the aip->eqn[i][3] |
| 21:45.39 | Z80-Boy | so it shouldn't be a problem |
| 21:45.45 | Z80-Boy | just the norm_dist gets denormalized |
| 21:45.53 | Z80-Boy | so now it has to be divided by the vector length |
| 21:46.16 | Z80-Boy | of the plane normal vector |
| 21:48.46 | Z80-Boy | and then there is a remote chance my holder will look right ;-) |
| 21:54.18 | brlcad | swank |
| 22:01.09 | Z80-Boy | hmm it didn't help, it's the same :( |
| 01:22.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c): |
| 01:22.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: "B -A" no longer acts like you gave it the wrong syntax if nothing matches. |
| 01:22.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Also, "B" commanad with no args now acts like "Z". |
| 02:58.58 | ``Erik | 'commanad' wow... |
| 02:59.26 | ``Erik | yeah, he's just a dude, but, ... jra produces godlike output, it boggles me that he'd make a typo\ |
| 04:56.51 | brlcad | heh |
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| 07:24.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): create/generate the generic versionless libraries during compile/install so that the former behavior of just using -ltcl and -ltk will work for external codes. |
| 07:39.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): merge the tcl/tk symlink checks in from head so that -ltcl and -ltk work for external users |
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| 13:54.53 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:55.21 | ``Erik | I'm out sick today. I woke up feeling like shit, then got an email telling me that a close college buddie died in a motorcycle accident. |
| 13:55.44 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: was it like telepathy? |
| 13:55.49 | Z80-Boy | Feeling shit because someone close died? |
| 13:55.52 | ``Erik | no, he died a month ago |
| 13:56.05 | ``Erik | blew a corner and hit a sign :( |
| 13:56.25 | ``Erik | as much as I like motorcycles, I doubt I'll ever own one. |
| 13:57.04 | ``Erik | I've ridden them before, and have had fun... but hearing stories, losing friends... and the idiocity of suv drivers... it's not a very safe activiy |
| 13:58.00 | ``Erik | so, brlcad, I tried to call phb (got vm), and sent email, if anyone is looking for me, save it 'till tuesday :D |
| 14:12.14 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: Mike Muus died on a road... |
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| 14:36.41 | ``Erik | 7 years ago |
| 14:37.06 | ``Erik | but I (unfortunately) never met the man |
| 14:37.57 | ``Erik | so it's a BIT more distant than finding out a friend who I've written code with, went out drinking with, slept on his couch (after drinking too much)... :/ |
| 14:38.04 | ``Erik | a month ago |
| 14:38.28 | ``Erik | at least it was an accident... a close friend of mine commited suicide a couple years ago, THAT was hard |
| 14:39.47 | ``Erik | ended up bawling like a baby over that :) right now, I'm just drinking myself fucktarded |
| 14:41.03 | Z80-Boy | was it hard to commit the suicide? |
| 14:41.22 | Z80-Boy | Two classmates from the university, one was a friend, also comitted suicide |
| 14:41.50 | Z80-Boy | a distant friend let's say |
| 14:42.37 | ``Erik | no, my coping with it was hard. |
| 14:43.02 | Z80-Boy | like some programs corrupt their memory and then crash |
| 14:43.04 | Z80-Boy | people do the same |
| 14:43.21 | Z80-Boy | convince themself that jumping from a bridge etc. is good for them |
| 14:43.30 | Z80-Boy | ideas can be dangerous ;-) |
| 14:43.40 | ``Erik | rocky got me my first computer job, I sat in his living room for new years 2000, with the couch that had a broken spring that stabbed your ass, heh |
| 14:44.04 | Z80-Boy | no more rocky anymore because rocky crashed, that simple |
| 14:44.10 | ``Erik | he was a great guy :/ |
| 14:44.29 | ``Erik | dan was, too |
| 14:44.47 | ``Erik | in general, I will only get fitshaced drunk infront of people I really really trust. these were both guys that qualify for that |
| 14:44.51 | Z80-Boy | don't worry he would be dead later anyway |
| 14:44.58 | Z80-Boy | all people seem to eventually become dead |
| 14:45.07 | Z80-Boy | he just time shifted it |
| 14:45.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:45.12 | Z80-Boy | like you time shift a TV show on VHS |
| 14:45.25 | ``Erik | when my grandparents passed, it was a lot easier |
| 14:46.19 | ``Erik | I'm not sure if it's the lost possibilities, or the realization of mortality, but young people dying is a lot more tragic than old people dying |
| 14:46.34 | ``Erik | vodka good. *grunt*. |
| 14:46.54 | Z80-Boy | well the young people would turn into old people anyway |
| 14:48.05 | Z80-Boy | and then into zombies |
| 14:48.09 | Z80-Boy | and then they would turn dead |
| 14:48.42 | Z80-Boy | dying should be banned under the death penalty |
| 14:48.59 | Z80-Boy | cause it makes the remaining people uncomfortabl |
| 14:49.10 | ``Erik | attempted suicide is a federal crime in the US |
| 14:49.24 | Z80-Boy | so your friend is a criminal! |
| 14:49.31 | ``Erik | no |
| 14:49.38 | Z80-Boy | can you get into jail for attempting suicide? |
| 14:49.38 | ``Erik | he didn't attempt, he succeeded. |
| 14:49.41 | ``Erik | yes |
| 14:49.45 | Z80-Boy | wow |
| 14:50.11 | Z80-Boy | murder on /dev/loopback |
| 14:50.31 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_views_of_suicide |
| 14:50.37 | Z80-Boy | This is the police. Stop aiming at your head or we shoot you down |
| 14:50.57 | Z80-Boy | Ironically, the punishment for attempted suicide in some jurisdictions has been death. |
| 14:51.00 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 14:51.02 | ``Erik | ok, not federal, some states |
| 14:52.30 | Z80-Boy | In the United States, suicide has never been punished as a crime nor penalized by property forfeiture or ignominious burial. |
| 14:53.37 | ``Erik | I'm more in tune with teh laws when I grew up, so I'm kinda operating on early 90's law... with washington being a specific set... which listed suicide as a felony at the time *shrug* |
| 14:53.54 | ``Erik | I have been educated. Suicide is no longer a punishable crime in the us |
| 14:56.38 | Z80-Boy | Well suceessfull suicide is still punished by the death penalty |
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| 15:53.50 | starseeker | ``Erik: Sorry to hear that - my condolences :-( |
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| 17:00.49 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 17:02.16 | yukonbob | hey brlcad. Happy Friday.. |
| 17:02.26 | brlcad | yeah, likewise :) |
| 17:05.13 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com, ask for an account if you're willing to hunt/fix bugs :) || Release 7.10.4 imminent | |
| 17:05.19 | brlcad | ~spell imminent |
| 17:05.30 | brlcad | sounds too minty |
| 17:05.36 | Z80-Boy | ~spell immenent |
| 17:05.47 | Z80-Boy | ~spell eminem |
| 17:05.55 | brlcad | ~dict immanent |
| 17:06.02 | Z80-Boy | ~spell brlcad |
| 17:06.19 | brlcad | ~dict imminent |
| 17:06.33 | brlcad | aiight, so I did get it right at least :) |
| 17:06.46 | Z80-Boy | ~spell bricket |
| 17:07.30 | bricked_brigade | ~spell briquette |
| 17:08.23 | yukonbob | brlcad: I'll take an account for coverity -- I assume it's up/running again? |
| 17:08.51 | brlcad | it's up, but the scan is incomplete |
| 17:09.06 | brlcad | so it's not really of any use just quite yet until the scan is rerun |
| 17:09.19 | bracket_brigade | brlcad: I think you should render head and headcut from ronja to see the vast orders of magnitude rendering time |
| 17:09.28 | bracket_brigade | when one is just a cutaway view of the other |
| 17:09.46 | bracket_brigade | or perpend and perpendcut it's a simple design and it's the same problem |
| 17:10.39 | brlcad | have you run a profile? |
| 17:10.54 | brlcad | that would be useful to see if the difference is obvious |
| 17:10.59 | brlcad | i mean code-wise |
| 17:18.45 | brlcad | ahh .. apparently I can't create accounts just yet even if I want to |
| 17:18.59 | brlcad | david has to enable some option or create them for us |
| 17:19.05 | brlcad | probably because our scan was incomplete |
| 17:19.40 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent | |
| 17:19.46 | bracket_brigade | a profile? What is it? |
| 17:20.07 | bracket_brigade | Like code profiling in C? |
| 17:24.01 | brlcad | yeah |
| 17:24.02 | brlcad | gprof |
| 17:24.21 | brlcad | ./configure --enable-profiling --enable-debug --disable-optimized |
| 17:24.54 | brlcad | then run one ray-trace, run gprof; then run the other ray-trace, and run gprof again |
| 17:25.08 | bracket_brigade | gprof with what params? |
| 17:25.10 | brlcad | post/compare the two reports |
| 17:25.27 | brlcad | when you run rt it'll dump out a gmon.out file into the current directory |
| 17:25.46 | brlcad | so you just have to run gprof in that same directory, with a param of the /path/to/rt |
| 17:26.26 | brlcad | e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -o /dev/null ronja.g ronja && gprof /usr/brlcad/bin/rt |
| 17:26.40 | bracket_brigade | aha nice |
| 17:26.47 | brlcad | er, gprof /usr/brlcad/bin/rt > results.log 2>&1 |
| 17:27.20 | brlcad | then rm gmon.out, do another rt with the slow object, and get the next gprof output |
| 17:48.02 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 17:48.17 | Z80-Boy | If I run ./configure with different parameters do I have to type make clean after? |
| 17:48.24 | Z80-Boy | Or can I continue with make? |
| 17:51.31 | brlcad | have to make clean |
| 17:51.41 | brlcad | it has to rebuild all of the files with the profile parameter |
| 17:51.54 | Z80-Boy | gprof a.out no such file or directory |
| 17:52.23 | Z80-Boy | aha I didn't do make clean anyway |
| 17:52.52 | brlcad | you wouldn't have an a.out either |
| 17:52.57 | Z80-Boy | hmm gprof reads the given object file but I guess rt is assembled from a lot of different object files which one should I supply? |
| 17:52.58 | brlcad | unless you're building your own thing |
| 17:53.08 | Z80-Boy | The one whose timing I am interested in? |
| 17:53.33 | brlcad | you supply gprof with the binary that you're running (i.e. rt) |
| 17:53.42 | brlcad | one that ideally has profile symbols included |
| 17:53.44 | Z80-Boy | OK cool |
| 17:54.05 | brlcad | to get those profile symbols, you have to build the application (and all object files and all libraries it uses) with a profile option enabled |
| 17:54.21 | brlcad | otherwise it can't instrument the function calls and give a good profile |
| 17:54.51 | brlcad | so yeah, make clean, run configure with those options I mentioned, then run rt+gprof twice |
| 18:07.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed mged 'B' command behavior with -A and no args |
| 18:08.41 | yukonbob | .and "B" alone doesn't puke error msgs anymore |
| 18:12.03 | brlcad | yep |
| 18:12.11 | brlcad | acts like Z |
| 18:12.56 | yukonbob | is it possible to have lookat behave like eye_pt or ae where if it has no args, it reports current settings? |
| 18:14.40 | brlcad | probably easy-as-pie |
| 18:15.02 | brlcad | care to make a patch? :) |
| 18:15.05 | yukonbob | it makes sense to have it do that, as it's useful, and inline w/ the behaviour of others |
| 18:15.20 | yukonbob | brlcad: I'm looking for relevant code right now ;) |
| 18:57.35 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-7.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:57.58 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I maked after the ./configure you recommended for profiling and got this: |
| 18:58.48 | Z80-Boy | /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent [...] -o btclsh [...] -lm ../../src/libtermio/libtermio.la -lm |
| 18:58.56 | Z80-Boy | /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `putchar' |
| 18:58.56 | Z80-Boy | /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `rand' |
| 19:00.25 | Z80-Boy | make src/rt/rt actually says nothing to make so I tried profiling. I ran rt ronja.g head and then |
| 19:00.28 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~/brlcad/src/rt$ gprof ./rt |
| 19:00.28 | Z80-Boy | gprof: ./rt: bad format |
| 19:00.39 | brlcad | you sure do guess a lot ;) |
| 19:00.49 | brlcad | (when you run into problems in particular) |
| 19:01.07 | brlcad | src/rt/rt is not a binary |
| 19:01.14 | Z80-Boy | oh :) |
| 19:01.30 | brlcad | it needs to be installed, or you'd have to build static |
| 19:01.49 | Z80-Boy | so now make install? |
| 19:01.49 | brlcad | those symbols from Xft are bizarre, those are like -lc symbols |
| 19:01.58 | brlcad | did the libraries build? |
| 19:02.02 | brlcad | and did you rebuild rt |
| 19:02.05 | Z80-Boy | which libraries? |
| 19:02.08 | brlcad | all of them |
| 19:02.17 | Z80-Boy | all brlcad libraries? |
| 19:02.22 | brlcad | is btclsh the first failure? |
| 19:02.29 | Z80-Boy | umm I don't know |
| 19:02.35 | Z80-Boy | I restarted the build in the meantime |
| 19:02.44 | brlcad | you're making this more complicated |
| 19:02.46 | Z80-Boy | how do I figure out if the libraries built |
| 19:02.54 | Z80-Boy | I did that on the bus |
| 19:03.00 | brlcad | do a make clean |
| 19:03.02 | brlcad | then make |
| 19:03.07 | brlcad | tell me how far it gets |
| 19:03.08 | Z80-Boy | OK |
| 19:03.45 | Z80-Boy | I don't get any compile error when I do just plain ./configure |
| 19:03.56 | Z80-Boy | and btw I found another bug in raytracing |
| 19:04.28 | brlcad | no library flags change with --enable-profile |
| 19:04.55 | brlcad | so I'd bet you had an unclean build of some sort, or something else is going on |
| 19:05.45 | brlcad | "just recompiling" certainly doesn't cause that sort of error by itself |
| 19:06.01 | *** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 19:06.27 | brlcad | you could add -lc to the LIBS but why you need to is really odd (but perhaps necessary on your OS) |
| 19:06.51 | brlcad | try ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc |
| 19:07.10 | brlcad | i saw it |
| 19:07.16 | Z80-Boy | you get e-mails? |
| 19:07.22 | brlcad | on every change |
| 19:07.25 | Z80-Boy | wow |
| 19:07.50 | Z80-Boy | -lc? like libc? |
| 19:08.09 | Z80-Boy | Why should be this specified? C program always compiles with libc doesn't? |
| 19:08.19 | Z80-Boy | unless |
| 19:08.38 | Z80-Boy | "My name is Theo de Raadt and Chuck Norris always asks me if he's allowed to turn his computer on." |
| 19:08.58 | brlcad | those are symbols that are in libc (putchar and rand) |
| 19:09.11 | Z80-Boy | yes I know |
| 19:09.21 | brlcad | yes, most OS automatically link against libc, but not all OS's .. and apparently not yours in that instance for some reason |
| 19:09.53 | brlcad | could be a libXft problem or a libtool problem or just a quirky behavior of your OS |
| 19:10.07 | brlcad | my money is on the latter |
| 19:10.15 | Z80-Boy | if a program runs on OpenBSD it runs on anything ;-) |
| 19:10.21 | Z80-Boy | Especially regarding segfaults ;-) |
| 19:20.34 | Z80-Boy | Has anyone worked with vacuum tubes? |
| 19:20.53 | Z80-Boy | Someone suggested to put a valve into the Ronja frontend to attempt reducing the noise |
| 19:21.43 | Z80-Boy | I found a valve which has comparable parameters to the FET cascodes (tetrodes) employed but then someone on the mailing list said they actually significantly improved equipment with tubes by replacing tubes with transistors |
| 19:21.56 | Z80-Boy | and he thinks the noise they observed is caused by the hot electron cloud. |
| 19:32.49 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 19:32.49 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent | |
| 19:51.48 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: now the compilation wiped out at the same place |
| 19:51.53 | Z80-Boy | /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `putchar' |
| 19:51.53 | Z80-Boy | /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `rand' |
| 19:52.32 | Z80-Boy | if I add -lc after -lm, it doesn't help |
| 19:53.00 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~/brlcad/src/bwish$ nm /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0 | grep putchar U putchar |
| 19:54.12 | Z80-Boy | if I remove --silent, it prints the gcc call it does |
| 19:54.18 | Z80-Boy | and -lc is stripped away from there again |
| 19:54.43 | Z80-Boy | if I add -lc manually there, it works. |
| 19:55.09 | Z80-Boy | what is the purpose of libtool? Break the compilation? |
| 19:55.55 | brlcad | it apparently determined that it's already added or not needed |
| 19:56.05 | brlcad | so perhaps a libtool bug + quirky system |
| 19:56.13 | brlcad | the fact that you need it at all seems stupid |
| 19:56.24 | Z80-Boy | what does it do apart from screwing up the compilation? |
| 19:57.24 | Z80-Boy | you should into the BRL-CAD README: Requirements: non-quirky system and non-buggy libtool |
| 19:57.36 | Z80-Boy | and a URL where is described how to meet these requirements for any system |
| 19:58.07 | brlcad | libtool significantly helps 95% of the time |
| 19:58.12 | brlcad | it's that 5% that's a bitch, though |
| 19:58.27 | Z80-Boy | what does it do? |
| 19:58.28 | brlcad | still worth it overall, but can be a pita when systems aren't popular |
| 19:59.20 | brlcad | it does the determination for how to successfully compile for your platform, how to make binaries and libraries correctly, how to link, where to find and put libraries, what kind of libraries, what compilation options, linker options, on and on |
| 20:00.01 | Z80-Boy | s/correctly/without_any_guarantee_of_correctness/ |
| 20:00.02 | brlcad | the sort of details like that you need -dynamiclib on some versions of mac and -dynamic on others and -rdynamic on some versions of linux, but not others, and so on |
| 20:00.38 | brlcad | it's no more error prone than any other piece of software, all the autotools have their share of annoying bugs .. if this is even a bug |
| 20:01.01 | Z80-Boy | it's a bit labour intensive to rerun libtool and then paste the gcc etc... for every program where it fails |
| 20:01.33 | brlcad | you can set it so it always blathers the gcc line |
| 20:01.59 | Z80-Boy | yeah that's what I am doing |
| 20:02.04 | brlcad | --enable-progress |
| 20:02.14 | Z80-Boy | where? |
| 20:02.18 | brlcad | configure option |
| 20:02.27 | Z80-Boy | what does it do? |
| 20:02.30 | brlcad | --enable/disable is *always* configure |
| 20:02.45 | brlcad | it enables the gcc line |
| 20:03.18 | brlcad | it's listed under ./configure --help and in detail in the INSTALL file that covers compilation |
| 20:04.22 | Z80-Boy | I should probably replace /usr/bin/gcc with a script... |
| 20:05.17 | Z80-Boy | and here we gooooo... |
| 20:05.47 | Z80-Boy | libtoll failed to implement a protection against *THAT* :) |
| 20:06.08 | Z80-Boy | and now compile the rest of brlcad with "vanilla" gcc... |
| 20:06.43 | Z80-Boy | libtool behaves like some kind of DRM which knows better what's good for you, but knows it wrong ;-) |
| 20:08.44 | Z80-Boy | They should pass a bill that replacing /usr/bin/gcc with a script is a crime. |
| 20:10.01 | brlcad | eh, trying to replace gcc with something still called gcc but doesn't behave like gcc would be "wrong" imo, I'd want it to fail in that situation :P |
| 20:10.30 | Z80-Boy | now it fails the same way in src/mged |
| 20:10.39 | brlcad | that's about as annoying as the debian folks replacing automake and autoconf with scripts (that are outright busted in various situations) |
| 20:10.43 | Z80-Boy | so we put the script back again and compile the whole brl-cad this way |
| 20:10.59 | Z80-Boy | OpenBSD has them also replaced with script |
| 20:11.00 | brlcad | how can it "now fail" in a different place? if the build stops, it's stopped |
| 20:11.32 | brlcad | if you hack at it to try and get it to continue, and don't do so correctly, it's gonna keep failing... |
| 20:11.43 | Z80-Boy | because I used the "script method" only for bwish. |
| 20:11.56 | brlcad | you really shouldn't expect any different, the problem's not been fixed |
| 20:12.26 | Z80-Boy | libtools implements AI |
| 20:12.33 | Z80-Boy | Artificial Imcompetence |
| 20:12.43 | brlcad | the bigger question is what's different between configure with no options and configure with profile options -- I still don't believe that to be the case |
| 20:13.18 | Z80-Boy | you told me to use 3 options, --profile was one of them |
| 20:13.21 | Z80-Boy | I used it like you said. |
| 20:13.27 | brlcad | --profile wasn't one of them |
| 20:14.15 | Z80-Boy | oh sorry it was --enable-profiling: |
| 20:14.19 | Z80-Boy | "21:06 <@brlcad> try ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc" |
| 20:14.20 | brlcad | and that STILL doesn't answer what's *different* |
| 20:14.29 | Z80-Boy | Why did you say LIBS=-lc? |
| 20:15.12 | brlcad | somehow I bet if you ran make clean && ./configure && make that it would also fail, if that really is the only difference |
| 20:15.17 | Z80-Boy | the configure commandline options are different |
| 20:15.29 | Z80-Boy | ./configure works, ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc doesn't |
| 20:15.37 | Z80-Boy | Now it compiled with the help of my "script method". |
| 20:15.53 | brlcad | have you ran a clean configure since running clean? |
| 20:15.59 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 20:16.05 | brlcad | then your statement is bogus |
| 20:16.26 | Z80-Boy | now it compiled all brlcad successfully |
| 20:16.33 | Z80-Boy | should I do make install now? |
| 20:17.06 | Z80-Boy | maybe my statement is bogus |
| 20:17.14 | Z80-Boy | and I am also said to have bad attitude, beware! |
| 20:18.20 | brlcad | you're just way too quick to jump to conclusions that have very little if any basis, with an incomplete understanding of what's going on |
| 20:18.43 | brlcad | this problem is going to keep biting if it's not figured out |
| 20:19.26 | Z80-Boy | you mean the "undefined putchar" problem on OpenBSD when profiling is turned on? |
| 20:19.45 | Z80-Boy | now I am installing... |
| 20:19.57 | brlcad | if you don't want to figure it out, that's fine by me -- I couldn't care less, it's your system -- but then you've got very little basis to be bitching about it not working right when the problem isn't fixed and you hack around it in various ways.. |
| 20:20.15 | Z80-Boy | but can I help you with some information to figure it out? |
| 20:20.16 | brlcad | s/fixed/even determined really/ |
| 20:20.20 | Z80-Boy | I don't know what I should investigate |
| 20:21.49 | brlcad | run make clean and ./configure with no options followed by make -- now that you've cleaned beforehand, see if that works -- see if -lc is on the compile line |
| 20:22.40 | Z80-Boy | OK... |
| 20:23.00 | Z80-Boy | it'll just take a while wait |
| 20:24.11 | brlcad | thanks |
| 20:24.20 | Z80-Boy | make clean done, configure running |
| 20:24.40 | brlcad | and I'll gladly hop on again too if it's non-obvious, might see something missed |
| 20:25.22 | Z80-Boy | OH, I have profiling output! |
| 20:25.27 | Z80-Boy | make clean finished, running make... |
| 20:27.00 | Z80-Boy | is the profiling affected seriously by compilation in the background? |
| 20:30.06 | brlcad | i'd wait for the compile to finish regardless |
| 20:30.26 | Z80-Boy | sure |
| 20:30.27 | brlcad | iirc, it keeps track of both cputime and wallclock, so it'd mess with the profile a little |
| 20:35.28 | Z80-Boy | both slow and fast spend most time in _mcount |
| 20:35.33 | Z80-Boy | fast spends 22% slow 27% |
| 20:36.25 | brlcad | bah |
| 20:36.43 | brlcad | then gnu folks haven't done a good job with gprof on openbsd yet |
| 20:38.23 | Z80-Boy | can you be more specific? |
| 20:38.37 | brlcad | try adding -e mcount to gprof |
| 20:38.40 | Z80-Boy | and when I ran the rt for the profiling, it sometimes crashed and sometimes not |
| 20:38.48 | Z80-Boy | produced some "*.log" files but no core files |
| 20:38.49 | brlcad | er, -E mcount |
| 20:38.55 | Z80-Boy | it begins BRL-CAD Release 7.10.3 Crash Report |
| 20:39.07 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r271 10/trunk/libirc/include/libIRC.h: start some doxygen type comments to get the ball rolling. |
| 20:39.09 | Z80-Boy | call stack backtrace is full of question marks |
| 20:39.46 | brlcad | there should be an rt.*crash.log file |
| 20:39.56 | brlcad | can you post it somewhere? |
| 20:40.15 | Z80-Boy | unknown-13359-bomb.log unknown-1506-bomb.log |
| 20:40.30 | brlcad | okay, those |
| 20:40.37 | Z80-Boy | on the captu? |
| 20:40.46 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r272 10/trunk/libirc/include/libIRC.h: missed the shabang! |
| 20:40.59 | brlcad | captu? |
| 20:41.06 | Z80-Boy | where is the post-large-printouts website? |
| 20:41.18 | brlcad | ~bzpastebin |
| 20:41.18 | ibot | i guess bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 20:45.18 | Z80-Boy | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4c2f613e |
| 20:46.50 | Z80-Boy | here is a piece of the profile for the "fast" model: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m59137327 |
| 20:47.48 | Z80-Boy | And here for the "slow" one: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3ffb84d6 |
| 20:48.02 | brlcad | hrmph |
| 20:48.26 | brlcad | well good to see that the automatic crash reports are working, but there were absolutely no symbols in there so it's practically useless |
| 20:49.00 | brlcad | well, not absolutely -- it's a null pointer dereference of some sort that just totally blew out the stack |
| 20:49.29 | brlcad | which .. openbsd is supposed to prevent from happening too.... odd |
| 20:50.35 | Z80-Boy | I don't understand it into such details |
| 20:50.51 | brlcad | did you add the -E mcount? |
| 20:50.53 | Z80-Boy | I just know Theo's Puffy keeps burglars out of my P.C. by some stack randomization and whatever other tricks. |
| 20:50.59 | Z80-Boy | no I didn't |
| 20:51.06 | Z80-Boy | that was without -E mcount |
| 20:51.39 | brlcad | try both with "-E mcount -E _mcount" just to be sure |
| 20:51.44 | brlcad | make sure there's no mcount in the result |
| 20:51.52 | brlcad | s/result/report/ |
| 20:52.16 | Z80-Boy | now worker [1] is the number one |
| 20:54.36 | Z80-Boy | now in the bad one the calloc is the #1 |
| 20:54.39 | Z80-Boy | should I post it? |
| 20:57.19 | Z80-Boy | hey look crash again |
| 20:57.30 | Z80-Boy | Additional mem=0., #malloc=1575, #free=1318, #realloc=4 (257 retained) |
| 20:57.30 | Z80-Boy | 804dc0bu_log: write error |
| 20:57.30 | Z80-Boy | Saving stack trace to unknown-13652-bomb.log |
| 20:57.55 | Z80-Boy | no core again |
| 20:58.12 | Z80-Boy | and again stack all question marks |
| 20:58.59 | Z80-Boy | 2 more crashes in a row and 6 successful raytraces |
| 20:59.11 | Z80-Boy | Maybe it's the thread ordering? Or page ordering in memory? |
| 21:00.15 | Z80-Boy | Interesting. If I run 'find /', then the rt gets a fit of couple crashes and then subsequent runs raytrace happily |
| 21:00.22 | Z80-Boy | until I run the find / again ;-) |
| 21:01.53 | Z80-Boy | the slow model needs 15.5 sec the fast one 0.074 sec |
| 21:02.13 | Z80-Boy | That's 209x faster |
| 21:02.18 | Z80-Boy | Is it normal? Just a cutaway... |
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| 21:03.33 | Z80-Boy | By CPU time the difference is 214x |
| 21:07.20 | Z80-Boy | OK make finished OK |
| 21:07.39 | Z80-Boy | There are lots of gcc commandlines in the compile, one example: |
| 21:08.33 | Z80-Boy | I can't find one it's all libtool |
| 21:15.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/intaval-g.py: a script that parses INTAVAL files into Tcl that mged can read. |
| 21:18.12 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 21:18.12 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent | |
| 21:19.53 | ``Erik | um, the whole bsd family tends to be finicky about profiling shtuff |
| 21:20.16 | ``Erik | all the symbols are provided in libraries (libc_r.so libc_p.so etc) |
| 21:20.21 | ``Erik | but gcc is... gooby |
| 21:22.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03brlcad * r273 10/trunk/libirc/include/ (6 files): some more doxygenification |
| 21:23.34 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: no, I think you pinpointed a really bad inefficiency (calloc) that shouldn't be happening .. that's the glory of profiling :) |
| 21:23.46 | brlcad | just need to see the profile myself to see where it's coming from |
| 21:24.26 | brlcad | i'm about to run out for a few hours, so I'll have to catch up |
| 21:25.05 | ``Erik | is the 'cutaway' using a "half" primitive? I'm under the impression that 'half' is horrible for performance |
| 21:25.34 | ``Erik | (also, I've never thought of obsd as an efficient for fast os... it's the "safe" one...) |
| 21:32.14 | Z80-Boy | what's the story morning glory |
| 21:39.13 | Z80-Boy | bool.c: " * The list is terminated with a NULL pointer, |
| 21:39.13 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.14 | Z80-Boy | " |
| 21:39.19 | Z80-Boy | Sounds like could be optimized... |
| 21:42.51 | Z80-Boy | shoot.c also contains one calloc which smells like could be optimized |
| 21:43.55 | Z80-Boy | basically any calloc is suspicious |
| 21:44.04 | Z80-Boy | what's the point of having a memory block zeroed out? |
| 21:44.15 | Z80-Boy | If you want to write into part of it then do malloc, write, and zero out the rest |
| 21:45.05 | Z80-Boy | If you don't write then you can replace any read into the block with 0 |
| 21:45.17 | Z80-Boy | so you don't need this block to be actually present anywhere and can just forget it |
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| 22:56.48 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 06:35.32 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: you ever get the two new profiles up with the -E mcount -E _mcount ? |
| 07:04.19 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667620.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 07:10.46 | Z80-Boy | um... |
| 07:10.49 | Z80-Boy | I can do it |
| 07:11.45 | Z80-Boy | but can yo ureproduce the 210x slowdown in your installation? |
| 07:13.11 | Z80-Boy | Now I get a weird behaviour of the framebuffer window |
| 07:13.27 | Z80-Boy | If I put mouse over it, the whole screen turns black, except that the mouse pointer is visible. |
| 07:13.44 | Z80-Boy | I produced the framebuffer with the same command as before, and it didn't happen. |
| 07:14.01 | Z80-Boy | If I click on the framebuffer after the screen turns black, it goes away. |
| 07:15.24 | Z80-Boy | Interesting is what happens if I put a video play on the desktop background using mplayer -rootwin -fs |
| 07:15.28 | brlcad | focus man |
| 07:15.34 | brlcad | looking to get the profile logs :) |
| 07:15.54 | brlcad | that is the critical next step |
| 07:16.00 | Z80-Boy | When I go with the mouse over the framebuffer, I see video over the whole screen with the two xterm's and the framebuffer cut out like black masks - black rectangles |
| 07:16.10 | Z80-Boy | But why a single command behaves in 3 different ways? |
| 07:16.25 | Z80-Boy | Once raytraces, one crashes, once produces a blackhole framebuffer? |
| 07:16.53 | brlcad | that's two separate bugs |
| 07:17.08 | brlcad | a bug in X11 and a bug in the OpenGL interface in BRL-CAD |
| 07:17.14 | Z80-Boy | I'll upload the gprof logs to the 210x bugreport, right? |
| 07:17.26 | Z80-Boy | Does it mean you have already seen this bug? |
| 07:17.26 | brlcad | sure |
| 07:17.30 | brlcad | yes |
| 07:17.34 | Z80-Boy | hehe :) |
| 07:17.40 | brlcad | you can get around it with --disable-opengl |
| 07:17.45 | brlcad | er, --without-opengl |
| 07:17.55 | Z80-Boy | do you think opengl is a piece of crap? |
| 07:18.02 | brlcad | not in the least |
| 07:18.11 | Z80-Boy | is it designed well? |
| 07:18.14 | brlcad | that just disables the libfb and libdm interfaces that use opengl |
| 07:18.31 | brlcad | doesn't remove *any* functionality in brl-cad, just changes the language it's speaking |
| 07:18.49 | Z80-Boy | Oh a little problem |
| 07:19.08 | Z80-Boy | I reinstalled the systemwide brl-cad with a non-gprof version since I wanted to leave Ronja raytracing overnight |
| 07:19.13 | brlcad | e.g. run rt -F/dev/Xl .. it should not exhibit the black screen |
| 07:19.15 | Z80-Boy | and the gprof version crashes and is slower |
| 07:19.21 | Z80-Boy | now I have to recompile again omg |
| 07:19.34 | Z80-Boy | But - you said yesterday I should try something with make clean ./configure make |
| 07:19.40 | Z80-Boy | I did it and the make was successful |
| 07:19.47 | Z80-Boy | what should have I figured out after? |
| 07:20.02 | Z80-Boy | You said I should look if there's a -lc flag but I don't know where exactly I should look. |
| 07:20.17 | brlcad | ah, yes -- on the linker line for bwish |
| 07:20.32 | Z80-Boy | now I guess I do make clean in the src/bwish right to reinvoke the linker? |
| 07:20.41 | brlcad | make noprod |
| 07:20.48 | brlcad | that removes just the binary |
| 07:20.51 | brlcad | so it will relink |
| 07:21.17 | Z80-Boy | the linker line for bwish begins with libtool is it what you want? |
| 07:22.06 | Z80-Boy | If I run it without --silent, I see there is no -lc passed to the gc |
| 07:22.07 | Z80-Boy | gcc |
| 07:22.15 | Z80-Boy | ~pastebin |
| 07:22.18 | ibot | somebody said pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 07:22.20 | brlcad | make LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool" LIBTOOLFLAGS="" |
| 07:22.27 | Z80-Boy | ~pastebin.bz |
| 07:22.57 | brlcad | (which basically just removes the --silent) |
| 07:23.02 | Z80-Boy | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6f867799 |
| 07:24.02 | brlcad | okay, that's good |
| 07:24.09 | Z80-Boy | Do you need more information? |
| 07:24.36 | brlcad | curious, yes |
| 07:25.32 | brlcad | grep '\$' ../../config.log | head -1 |
| 07:26.03 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:26.29 | brlcad | have you modified your configure.ac file? |
| 07:26.35 | brlcad | or did you set CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS? |
| 07:26.47 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~/brlcad-vanilla/src/bwish$ echo $CFLAGS |
| 07:26.47 | Z80-Boy | -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe |
| 07:26.54 | Z80-Boy | CPPFLAGS are empty |
| 07:27.14 | Z80-Boy | I didn't change configure.ac myself. I maybe ran autogen.sh which I don't know if it changes configure.ac |
| 07:27.17 | brlcad | yeah, fyi that's no good for doing profile builds -- it can override |
| 07:27.24 | Z80-Boy | aha! |
| 07:27.39 | Z80-Boy | does unset work like export? |
| 07:27.45 | brlcad | but thats also not likely the -lc problem |
| 07:27.49 | Z80-Boy | Or does it unset just for one level of the shells? |
| 07:28.21 | Z80-Boy | I'll try it without the CPPFLAGS |
| 07:29.14 | Z80-Boy | Can you try the two raytraces on your installation? |
| 07:29.19 | Z80-Boy | Do you also get 1:210 difference? |
| 07:29.39 | brlcad | no, I really cannot try them right now |
| 07:29.59 | brlcad | that's why I was asking you for the profiles .. you know, to save some time .. |
| 07:30.36 | brlcad | because that's all I'll be doing too anyways, I really don't doubt that it's slower |
| 07:30.50 | brlcad | the question is just why and what if anything can be done |
| 07:30.55 | Z80-Boy | OK doing export CFLAGS="" |
| 07:31.14 | brlcad | what problem are you working on? |
| 07:31.21 | brlcad | or what do you expect that to change? ... |
| 07:31.36 | Z80-Boy | now I am working on the logs you said |
| 07:31.46 | brlcad | so not the -lc issue |
| 07:31.52 | Z80-Boy | no |
| 07:31.58 | brlcad | okay! |
| 07:32.16 | brlcad | you've got a lot of ADD tendancies sometimes.. :) |
| 07:32.19 | Z80-Boy | and now ./configure --enable-profiling --enable-debug --disable-optimized |
| 07:32.30 | Z80-Boy | Attention Deficiency Disorder? |
| 07:32.44 | brlcad | deficit |
| 07:32.59 | brlcad | or AD/HD |
| 07:34.07 | brlcad | i.e. focus on the task at hand ;) |
| 07:36.18 | Z80-Boy | We can see that in a normal adult without ADHD, the glucose metabolism in the brain is so high that significant amounts of glucose are metabolised as far as 20 centimeters outside the head: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Adhdbrain.gif |
| 07:36.20 | brlcad | anyways, so the next step, run that configure line, run make, install, run gprof with the -I options, capture output to file |
| 07:37.01 | Z80-Boy | Oh they have a picture of the Hippocrites |
| 07:37.29 | Z80-Boy | "A marked decrease in academic skills such as reading, spelling, or math is common with children who have ADHD." |
| 07:37.34 | Z80-Boy | I had a marked increase |
| 07:37.48 | Z80-Boy | configure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 07:37.56 | Z80-Boy | now I should run make distclen? |
| 07:38.12 | brlcad | sure, but then you'll need to run autogen.sh again too |
| 07:38.20 | Z80-Boy | they say also rm ../../../../config.cache.openbsd4.0.kestrel.barix.local |
| 07:38.24 | Z80-Boy | but that doesn't work |
| 07:41.54 | Z80-Boy | As with many conditions in the field of psychiatry, ADHD can be explained as a social construct |
| 07:42.03 | Z80-Boy | I don't have a disorder. They have a social construct ;-) |
| 07:43.15 | brlcad | you just spent 10 minutes on a diversion, interleaved with two different sorts of code comments, .. and yet still claim to not have issues with getting distracted? :) |
| 07:43.35 | Z80-Boy | I have problems concentrating both in work and on my personal projects |
| 07:44.05 | Z80-Boy | The only moment when I don't have problems concentrating is if I go to a skatepark, snowboarding or surfing |
| 07:44.45 | Z80-Boy | Although these activities are inherently very boring (just a repetitive motion), I don't have a problem there ;-) |
| 07:45.35 | brlcad | back in a while... look forward to seeing the reports if you can generate them ;) |
| 07:46.02 | brlcad | if anything even just seeing the profile of the slow one might help by itself at this point |
| 07:46.10 | Z80-Boy | now th econfigure passed because I deleted the cache |
| 07:46.16 | brlcad | as just mentioning calloc is very suspicious |
| 07:46.31 | Z80-Boy | did you see my comments about calloc possible to optimize? |
| 07:46.46 | Z80-Boy | In one place you call calloc and then overwrite 99% of the buffer with data |
| 07:46.49 | brlcad | yeah, but they're pointless |
| 07:46.58 | Z80-Boy | so the calloc is used as a brute force method to add a terminator |
| 07:47.03 | brlcad | need a profile that indicates that that is a calloc that matters in the least |
| 07:47.04 | Z80-Boy | Is it a code that is not executed often? |
| 07:47.48 | brlcad | there's no need to guess whether it's executed often, no matter how educated you feel it may be -- that is exactly what a profilers is for |
| 07:48.09 | brlcad | in fact guessing is *usually* wrong and/or misleading |
| 07:50.15 | brlcad | it very well could be the calloc in question, or it could be from a completely different place in the code (more likely but not impossible that it's not) |
| 07:51.37 | Z80-Boy | Hmm looks like I have ADHD |
| 07:51.58 | brlcad | the profiler will conveniently tell us exactly where and how bad the code is called .. good stuff if leveraged |
| 07:53.42 | Z80-Boy | we just add more -E flags? |
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| 08:12.05 | Z80-Boy | Hehe when I rename the brlcad directory to brlcad-profiling during make install then things go astray miserably ;-) |
| 08:23.53 | Z80-Boy | Now it says automake-1.9: ## Internal Error ## |
| 08:24.11 | Z80-Boy | Use of uninitialized value in string eq at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9 line 4673, <GEN0> line 1. |
| 08:24.33 | Z80-Boy | How do I cvs checkout fresh brl-cad? |
| 08:24.55 | Z80-Boy | Oh it's documented I didn't really expect that |
| 08:32.26 | louipc | man I can't find detail specs on collets :( I wanted to draw some up |
| 09:19.30 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487475E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 09:30.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: just got it |
| 09:32.18 | Z80-Boy | sourceforget is slow |
| 09:36.01 | Z80-Boy | Firefox just hangs in the middle of scrolling and prints "loading data from <some damned ad site>" |
| 09:38.23 | minute-ssh | Sourceforge adverts are incredibly annoying, especially given the slow speed the site is at in general. |
| 09:40.34 | Z80-Boy | How can I make my OS return 127.0.0.1 to www.google-analytics.com? |
| 09:41.31 | Z80-Boy | I have lookup file bind still it ignores an entry in /etc/hosts |
| 09:43.38 | minute-ssh | If it is really important you could set up your own DNS system. |
| 09:44.01 | Z80-Boy | I don't want to do that |
| 09:44.07 | Z80-Boy | I just want to know why OpenBSD is a piece of shit |
| 09:44.24 | Z80-Boy | cause man resolv.conf says it should work with lookup file bind and I have this line in /etc/resolv.conf |
| 09:44.24 | minute-ssh | Hosts should work, but you might need to restart\reload something. |
| 09:44.39 | minute-ssh | Google Analytics is slow indeed. |
| 09:45.50 | Z80-Boy | OK I'll reload the system |
| 09:53.34 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-7.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 09:54.19 | Z80-Boy | Hehe it works like charm |
| 09:54.30 | Z80-Boy | /etc/hosts: |
| 09:54.32 | Z80-Boy | 0.0.0.0 google-analytics.com |
| 09:54.32 | Z80-Boy | 0.0.0.0 ad.doubleclick.net |
| 09:54.35 | Z80-Boy | /etc/resolv.conf: |
| 09:54.42 | Z80-Boy | lookup file bind |
| 09:54.51 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: put it into your system, you'll save truckloads of time! |
| 09:55.01 | Z80-Boy | and tell all friends! |
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| 17:42.12 | *** join/#brlcad nollan (i=nollan@bnc.kostar.5kr.hos.egn.se) | |
| 17:43.22 | nollan | hey folks. i just discovered brlcad. i added it from freebsd ports w/o any problems, however when i run mged.sh it initialized and then detaches. but i get no windows.. |
| 17:44.44 | nollan | any suggestions what i should do? |
| 17:46.19 | yukonbob | nollan: what does the mged.sh file contain? I just run an mged binary.... |
| 17:46.43 | louipc | yeah I don't have an mged.sh on my system |
| 17:46.59 | louipc | but I'm in linux and I built BRLCAD myself |
| 17:48.12 | nollan | yukonbob, it sets variables like path and brlcad home path.. then it runs mged binary |
| 17:52.37 | louipc | try inputting the commands without the script and see what happens |
| 17:52.48 | nollan | how? |
| 17:52.54 | nollan | [frodo]-[/home/nollan]-$ /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 17:52.54 | nollan | Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Detached |
| 17:52.54 | thing0 | magic |
| 17:53.21 | nollan | where should i put the commands? |
| 17:53.37 | nollan | there is no window nor dialog boxes, nothing |
| 17:53.44 | louipc | yeah mged is supposed to detach |
| 17:53.53 | yukonbob | nollan: try running a [s|k|p]trace on the binary and see what it shows... |
| 17:54.31 | louipc | nollan: try to give it a model on the command line maybe... |
| 17:54.44 | nollan | to open you mean |
| 17:54.47 | louipc | yea |
| 17:55.10 | louipc | there's some in brlcad/share/db |
| 17:55.23 | louipc | i'm not sure what the exact path would be on your system ... |
| 17:55.32 | nollan | ok i'll try |
| 17:55.39 | nollan | ktracing now |
| 17:57.01 | nollan | hmm how do i check the ktrace.out file for errors? |
| 17:57.10 | yukonbob | kdump | less |
| 17:57.44 | nollan | ok |
| 17:59.55 | nollan | it says something about /etc/libmap.conf |
| 18:00.30 | yukonbob | nollan: maybe "kdump > mytmpfile" and post the results to a pastebin... |
| 18:01.12 | nollan | ok, but it's huge |
| 18:01.35 | yukonbob | ...then just that last relevant bits? |
| 18:02.29 | yukonbob | you know what I mean when I say "pastebin" right? Don't flood this channel w/ a cut/paste... |
| 18:03.03 | yukonbob | ~pastebin |
| 18:03.04 | ibot | from memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 18:03.15 | nollan | http://pastebin.ca/735505 |
| 18:03.32 | nollan | sure i've used it before. lots of times.. |
| 18:03.46 | nollan | mostrly for reading thou |
| 18:05.40 | yukonbob | ? I can't see any signs that mged quit |
| 18:06.07 | yukonbob | ps aux | grep mged |
| 18:06.18 | nollan | i'm browsing throu it now and theres a lot of libraries not found... |
| 18:06.27 | nollan | i guess it's a dependency issue |
| 18:06.53 | nollan | yeah it starts, but gives me no windows or dialogboxes |
| 18:07.04 | yukonbob | ports should handle all that -- and mged would complain on the cmdline if it couldn't find what it wanted... |
| 18:07.23 | nollan | k |
| 18:07.36 | yukonbob | the 'not found' issues might be first (or second, etc) attempts to find what it's looking for, until it finds them later... |
| 18:07.49 | nollan | yeah. i guess |
| 18:08.09 | yukonbob | what window manager are you running? |
| 18:08.11 | nollan | i didn't compile it thou -i pkg_add -r it |
| 18:08.14 | nollan | fluxbox |
| 18:09.51 | yukonbob | nollan: can you run bwish? |
| 18:10.16 | nollan | dunno is it included in brlcad? |
| 18:10.22 | yukonbob | try it and see ;) |
| 18:10.35 | nollan | i got a dialog |
| 18:10.36 | yukonbob | (yes, it is part of brlcad) |
| 18:10.42 | nollan | and a window |
| 18:10.53 | nollan | and a bwish> - prompt |
| 18:10.54 | yukonbob | are you running Xinerama? |
| 18:11.04 | yukonbob | ( or some dual-head monitor setup?) |
| 18:11.09 | nollan | nope, never heard of it |
| 18:11.15 | nollan | nope no dualhead |
| 18:12.10 | nollan | w8 i'll try a thing brb |
| 18:20.30 | nollan | it works now. i had to remove some options form xorg.conf |
| 18:20.34 | nollan | thanks |
| 18:20.49 | yukonbob | nice! |
| 18:20.51 | yukonbob | have fun :) |
| 18:21.08 | nollan | thanks! i'm totally new.. |
| 18:21.10 | nollan | :) |
| 18:21.29 | louipc | odd what options were those? |
| 18:21.45 | yukonbob | DontShowMged = YES |
| 18:23.56 | nollan | haha ahh, experimental stuff. |
| 18:24.40 | yukonbob | paste them here -- might come up again for somebody else... |
| 18:24.49 | yukonbob | "here" == pastebin ;) |
| 18:24.54 | nollan | pageflips agpmode depthmoves renderaccel |
| 18:25.03 | yukonbob | that's it? |
| 18:25.05 | nollan | ati driver |
| 18:25.07 | nollan | yeah |
| 18:25.10 | yukonbob | hrmm. |
| 18:35.42 | nollan | however when i load examples - they are all empty |
| 18:36.25 | yukonbob | 'ls' to see lists of 'objects, regions, groups' ,etc, and 'e [somename]' to show it... |
| 18:38.07 | yukonbob | there are a few .pdfs you'll be interested in -- a 3-page cheat for mged, and a Tutorial "Principles of Effective Modelling", esp... |
| 18:38.09 | louipc | nollan: if you load the file via command line then it should display automatically |
| 18:40.02 | yukonbob | nollan: ftp.brlcad.org/pub/BRL-CAD/Documentation |
| 18:40.05 | louipc | nollan: type tops in mged to see the top level parts of the model |
| 18:40.35 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-108-140.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:41.25 | nollan | mged> load /usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g |
| 18:41.25 | nollan | Error: couldn't load file "/usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g": /usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g: invalid file format |
| 18:41.31 | louipc | nollan: use draw or e in mged to display the objects |
| 18:41.35 | louipc | !! |
| 18:42.25 | nollan | i guess i'm off to the docs |
| 18:42.26 | nollan | :) |
| 18:42.52 | louipc | you're using a really old version too :P |
| 18:43.06 | nollan | ok. that was the one in ports |
| 18:43.17 | yukonbob | nollan: what version is it? |
| 18:43.28 | yukonbob | oh -- 7.8.2... |
| 18:43.50 | nollan | pkg_info | grep brl |
| 18:43.51 | nollan | brlcad-7.8.2 CSG modelling system from the US Ball |
| 18:46.40 | Z80-Boy | oh yeah US Ball |
| 18:46.52 | Z80-Boy | let's play US Ball! |
| 18:47.09 | yukonbob | US Ballroom Dancing Laboratory |
| 19:05.06 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 19:35.08 | brlcad | heh, ball |
| 19:35.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: include the intaval-g.py script in the dist |
| 19:35.43 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: hm, dunno what you changed, but those profiles are useless |
| 19:35.51 | brlcad | they didn't have any numbers |
| 19:37.20 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: did you try to reproduce the rendering times? |
| 19:44.10 | brlcad | nollan: load isn't the right command, that's the command to load tcl/tk extensions |
| 19:44.16 | brlcad | opendb would be the command |
| 19:45.23 | brlcad | and brl-cad .g files are "multi-geometry" files with potentially many models per file, so there's no "default" object that will display when you open a .g file -- you can either use the geometry browser or run the "tops" command to see the top-level objects that you can display |
| 19:46.30 | nollan | ah. right |
| 20:04.16 | *** join/#brlcad luckyshot (n=lucky@CABLE-72-53-76-204.cia.com) | |
| 20:04.24 | luckyshot | Hey guys, |
| 20:04.32 | luckyshot | Does anyone in here use UGS NX series? |
| 20:25.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/fb/pix-fb.c): accept karel's sf patch 1802016, which provides a -p option to pix-fb causing the application to pause the specified number of seconds before exiting and closing the framebuffer. |
| 20:27.25 | brlcad | luckyshot: i've used it before |
| 20:27.39 | brlcad | this is certainly not an nx support channel though ;) |
| 20:28.10 | brlcad | if you want to fund the same level that you give to UGS to BRL-CAD, then I'd be glad to help ya though ;) |
| 20:56.09 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487475E.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:01.08 | luckyshot | lol |
| 21:01.26 | luckyshot | bclcad, just wanted to know why nx5 files wont open in nx4 |
| 21:01.29 | luckyshot | its very frustrating |
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| 21:39.06 | ``Erik | erm, cuz the format changed? |
| 21:39.16 | ``Erik | they, uh, added shit? |
| 21:45.34 | luckyshot | file format is the same |
| 21:46.04 | ``Erik | then why is it 5 instead of 4.1? :D *duck* |
| 21:46.30 | ``Erik | this ain't a unigraphics help channel, I've never used ug... tried installing it once, that's it:) |
| 21:58.09 | brlcad | if the format is the "same" then it's not an "nx5 file", it's something else .. they break compatibility just like most other major apps when there's a new major version |
| 22:01.11 | luckyshot | i guess |
| 22:01.25 | luckyshot | ms word still is backwrds compatible with older versions |
| 22:06.24 | brlcad | only to an extent |
| 22:06.31 | brlcad | you can create new versions that are not |
| 22:06.42 | brlcad | word simply hasn't *had* a new release in years |
| 22:07.25 | brlcad | they used to break compatibility all the time, 95 not working in 97, 2000 not working on either, etc |
| 22:07.40 | luckyshot | oh okay |
| 22:08.00 | luckyshot | is brl cad easy to use? |
| 22:08.06 | brlcad | not really |
| 22:08.17 | brlcad | at least not until you've gone up the learning curve |
| 22:08.22 | luckyshot | nx4 and 5 are extrmely simple |
| 22:08.27 | brlcad | it's easy to use, but not easy to learn |
| 22:08.29 | luckyshot | are they of the same level of difficulty? |
| 22:09.04 | brlcad | give it a try, some find it exceptionally familiar |
| 22:09.17 | brlcad | the tutorial book on the website might give you an idea of what to expect |
| 22:09.20 | luckyshot | definitely |
| 22:09.22 | luckyshot | does it work in vista? |
| 22:09.29 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 22:09.53 | brlcad | only one of brl-cad's 400+ tools, but one of the most prominent and with a gui |
| 22:10.21 | brlcad | I don't know that anyone has even tried under vista |
| 22:10.33 | luckyshot | ok |
| 22:12.25 | brlcad | howdy bob |
| 22:13.18 | yukonbob | brlcad: hey -- what's shaking? |
| 22:47.05 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob -- most of the cfd/fea tools are indirect or generic |
| 22:47.27 | brlcad | like being able to extract a mesh of given geometry, or the Cubit exporter, or voxelization of geometry, etc |
| 23:00.28 | yukonbob | note: anybody who posts links to images of havoc is subject to being banned from #brlcad... |
| 23:00.46 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 23:03.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 11 |
| 23:03.48 | poolio_ | Woah, has Irix disappeared? |
| 23:04.55 | starseeker | Wouldn't that be an awesome tag line - BRL-CAD - able to simulate moon shots! |
| 23:05.51 | yukonbob | poolio_: :) ... one day some time ago I threatened to reach through the internet and take his modem away if he posted another havoc image, and haven't seen another since... |
| 23:07.11 | brlcad | starseeker: heh, is their .g support supposed to be for BRL-CAD or something else? |
| 23:07.39 | brlcad | very possible they might have support for v4 .g format from interactions over a decade ago |
| 23:07.39 | starseeker | I'm sure it's for something else - I just noticed it in their list of "supported" file extensions |
| 23:07.48 | starseeker | oh, really? |
| 23:08.01 | starseeker | huh - is there a v4 .g file around somewhere? |
| 23:08.39 | brlcad | run dbupgrade -r on a v5 |
| 23:09.09 | starseeker | righto... |
| 23:10.54 | starseeker | Interesting... |
| 23:11.09 | starseeker | It does add it as an object, but doesn't display anything |
| 23:11.37 | starseeker | Says it is a polygonal mesh with zero cells and zero points |
| 23:17.34 | Z80-Boy | starseeker: I guess they had, but they had to use a boolean operator and that made it 210x slower so they couldn't make it into the launch so they dropped it |
| 23:18.21 | Z80-Boy | Or they realized that when they mirror the foam, it gets 3 times as big and changes shape ;-) |
| 23:18.23 | brlcad | sounds like it's a busted parser |
| 23:18.34 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: sorry, just joking :) |
| 23:18.41 | starseeker | in paraview? |
| 23:19.02 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: I have the profiles done here now |
| 23:19.08 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: and the ratio? |
| 23:19.10 | brlcad | *with* useful results :) |
| 23:19.12 | Z80-Boy | 1:210? |
| 23:19.18 | brlcad | dude, get over the ratio |
| 23:19.24 | Z80-Boy | more than 210? |
| 23:19.38 | brlcad | i already told you i didn't doubt that one is slower |
| 23:19.58 | Z80-Boy | man you'll become a hero for speeding up the U.S. Army development 200 times |
| 23:20.05 | brlcad | and it would be expected that it's a little slower, but not necessarily drasticly |
| 23:20.21 | Z80-Boy | That's good |
| 23:20.25 | brlcad | two orders implies something else is wrong |
| 23:20.30 | Z80-Boy | because now you can poke at it and don't have to ask me |
| 23:20.51 | Z80-Boy | which function does consume it? |
| 23:20.59 | brlcad | it's not good, it means i'm not working on other things that are really begging for attention as well :P |
| 23:21.28 | brlcad | so no time was saved in the end |
| 23:21.38 | Z80-Boy | which function did gprof say consumes the most? |
| 23:21.38 | brlcad | it doesn't help anyone for everything to be in my hands :) |
| 23:22.02 | Z80-Boy | is it calloc? |
| 23:22.24 | brlcad | I'd suggest working more with gprof yourself to get the answer to that, so next time you can generate the profile :) somthing went wrong in those steps .. maybe an openbsd gprof problem |
| 23:23.36 | Z80-Boy | which function is it? |
| 23:24.43 | Z80-Boy | I have to go sleeping if I don't want to be zombie tomorrow |
| 23:24.44 | Z80-Boy | good night |
| 23:24.47 | brlcad | cya |
| 23:25.08 | brlcad | he can be a selfish lil punk sometimes |
| 23:25.23 | brlcad | good kid, lots of good efforts, but impatient to no end |
| 23:27.12 | brlcad | no |
| 23:27.14 | brlcad | hell no :) |
| 23:27.17 | brlcad | not yet at least |
| 23:27.37 | yukonbob | (that you know of) |
| 23:27.45 | brlcad | they're not very productive to my coding and lifestyle habits right now, maybe in a few years :) |
| 23:27.53 | starseeker | "who needs kids when one has Z80-Boy on IRC" |
| 23:36.28 | brlcad | mmm.. lisp experience could certainly come in handy ;-) |
| 23:36.51 | brlcad | for the new modeler, lisp was on my list of languages we need to support near the beginning |
| 23:37.03 | brlcad | simply due to the autocad crowd |
| 23:38.00 | brlcad | probably lisp and python for non-interactive; and tcl and bash for interactive |
| 23:38.19 | yukonbob | tcl inter + non-inter |
| 23:38.27 | yukonbob | source "mycoolfile.tcl" |
| 23:38.28 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 23:38.39 | brlcad | yeah, tcl is one of the few that can probably do both |
| 23:39.12 | yukonbob | this talk of py/tcl/lisp* bring us back to the idea of SWIG |
| 23:39.15 | starseeker | Doing both is something I see more in research languages - they like the REPL prompts |
| 23:39.16 | brlcad | and not feel like ass in the process ;) |
| 23:40.01 | brlcad | yeah, but then the idea of an ml prompt make me shudder |
| 23:40.07 | starseeker | Lisp is really good at it, given a good compiler - there are some amusing stories about early web servers in lisp where the devs would get a support call, fix it on the phone in the running image, and then ask the customer to do a page refresh :-) |
| 23:40.26 | yukonbob | *given a good compiler |
| 23:40.42 | starseeker | There are a few. Allegro I think is pretty good, and sbcl on the free side |
| 23:41.03 | starseeker | Clisp is kinda dog slow, but has the advantage of running everywhere under the sun |
| 23:41.56 | starseeker | Scheme is regarded as a type of Lisp |
| 23:42.17 | starseeker | Scheme stays small and doesn't specify all that much - it lets extensions fight it out |
| 23:43.08 | starseeker | Common Lisp is the opposite - it's a huge spec |
| 23:43.11 | yukonbob | starseeker: right -- but if somebody is used to all the facilities of Common Lisp, scheme is not Common Lisp.. |
| 23:43.16 | yukonbob | :) |
| 23:43.21 | starseeker | True :-) |
| 23:43.28 | starseeker | but the core language principles are the same |
| 23:43.40 | yukonbob | (are (they (indeed))) |
| 23:43.50 | starseeker | Scheme is "a lisp", Fortran most definitely is not |
| 23:44.13 | yukonbob | could wait for Paul Graham to finish Arc. |
| 23:44.16 | brlcad | hm, so calloc didn't even make a blip on the profile |
| 23:44.30 | starseeker | yukonbob: Only if you can code from the grave |
| 23:44.37 | brlcad | looks like 98.9% of the extra time is spent doing the boolean evaluation, exactly like john said |
| 23:44.42 | yukonbob | ?Is he dead |
| 23:45.44 | brlcad | yukonbob: a brlcad major mode would be freaking awesome :) |
| 23:46.06 | starseeker | yukonbob: By the time Arc is done, you probably will be ;-) |
| 23:46.13 | yukonbob | starseeker: haha |
| 23:46.23 | brlcad | that'd be a great "summer of code" project :) |
| 23:47.00 | starseeker | Emacs has a lot of... erm... personality |
| 23:47.28 | yukonbob | brlcad: one of first things I do in mged is "array set env [list EDITOR xemacs]" |
| 23:48.11 | yukonbob | ... could skip that and just use xemacs -- that _would_ be very cool... |
| 23:48.12 | brlcad | hm, can't you just set env(EDITOR) xemacs ? |
| 23:48.59 | yukonbob | brlcad: could "env EDITOR=xemacs mged", or set EDITOR in my .profile, sure... |
| 23:52.13 | yukonbob | heh: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ajwatson/cat-powered.gif |
| 23:53.45 | starseeker | now THAT'S hardcore ;-) |
| 23:54.10 | brlcad | yukonbob: no, I mean as tcl syntax inside mged |
| 23:54.30 | brlcad | is there any difference between "array set env [list EDITOR xemacs]" and "set env(EDITOR) xemacs"? |
| 23:54.40 | brlcad | i've never seen the array form |
| 23:55.25 | yukonbob | brlcad: you're right... |
| 23:56.00 | brlcad | wasn't trying to be right, it's informative to me too :) |
| 23:56.13 | yukonbob | you're still correct ;) |
| 23:56.24 | yukonbob | both work |
| 23:56.32 | brlcad | wonder if there is any technical difference |
| 23:56.56 | yukonbob | re: emacs -- are you thinking of completely working from w/i emacs, and have it interface w/ rt? |
| 23:58.04 | brlcad | sure |
| 00:00.47 | brlcad | it could work in a variety of ways, like mged as a command environment (ala gdb mode) or as a simple geometry browser (ala tar mode), or something in between |
| 00:01.18 | yukonbob | poolio_: always room for improvement... |
| 00:01.38 | brlcad | everyone makes mistakes from time to time ;) |
| 00:02.03 | yukonbob | ?Like hardcoding references to vim in mged <ducks> |
| 00:05.53 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: cfd, fea -- are you saying conversion to mesh, and then analyze w/ some other tool (is that what paraview is good for?)... |
| 00:06.21 | poolio_ | heh, I'd learn emacs but I like my pinky. |
| 00:07.24 | yukonbob | poolio_: step 1. convert CapsLock -> Ctrl... |
| 00:07.37 | yukonbob | step 2. ???? |
| 00:07.41 | yukonbob | step 3. Profit! |
| 00:07.57 | poolio_ | But then how can I yell? |
| 00:08.37 | poolio_ | Are there any recommended tutorials for emacs targeted for converting vim users? |
| 00:09.23 | yukonbob | poolio_: what I did was just start using it... Make a point of 1) Having it installed on your computer (!), 2) Trying it out when possible... |
| 00:09.27 | brlcad | yukonbob: heh :) |
| 00:09.53 | brlcad | having a forced concerted effort to learn it helps, along with a bindings cheat sheet |
| 00:10.03 | yukonbob | poolio_: there's built-in help, and lots of online stuff... and honestly, switching the CapsLock->Ctrl isn't a bad idea... |
| 00:11.01 | yukonbob | poolio_: are you a *nix user, or Mac, or Windows, or ???? |
| 00:11.03 | poolio_ | Yeah...but I work on a bunch of different machines (and mainly cluster machines) so it'd be a pain to re-map it every time |
| 00:11.06 | poolio_ | *nix |
| 00:11.30 | poolio_ | But I'm a student and my laptop died, so I have an old desktop and access to Windows/OS X/Linux machines |
| 00:11.43 | poolio_ | I'm looking to invest in a new laptop (possibly getting a macbook if they're updated with Leopard) |
| 00:13.45 | yukonbob | holy smokes -- apples website is simpler than ever... |
| 00:14.48 | yukonbob | is leopard shipping? |
| 00:18.03 | poolio_ | nope |
| 00:18.10 | poolio_ | ~oct 26 |
| 00:18.15 | yukonbob | hrmm... |
| 00:26.56 | yukonbob | brlcad: so re: cfd, fea -- am I right about the process? |
| 01:08.17 | brlcad | sorry, pizza arrived, had to eat it ;) |
| 01:08.41 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, for the most part .. if it's a code that requires a mesh format |
| 01:08.45 | brlcad | (most do) |
| 01:10.12 | yukonbob | so -- would one export the mesh from brl-cad, import to fea program, and then assign properites, attributes, etc, and run math on the model? |
| 01:10.26 | yukonbob | Mmm... pizza |
| 01:11.25 | yukonbob | (of course, the longer I put it off, pizza will be on list, and move up list...) |
| 01:12.02 | yukonbob | for instance, back to a house model, how can I take CSG model from brl-cad and find out how much snow a roof can support? |
| 01:17.41 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, that's what is often done |
| 01:18.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (7 files in 6 dirs): use fchmod() instead of chmod() to avoid race condition. quell flawfinder warning |
| 01:18.45 | brlcad | that would be great engineering aspects to integrate into the geometric analysis facilities, but it's pretty far out given the state of the modeler right now |
| 01:19.30 | yukonbob | ...and if it's already fairly portable between apps, that modularity is a positive, rather than integration... |
| 01:50.07 | brlcad | mm.. Quest for Glory |
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| 04:17.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: use snprintf, quell flawfinder warning |
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| 04:37.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (Makefile.am timercos.c): remove the old cray timer, required maintenance and not likely to be needed even if there's a cray that old still in service somewhere |
| 04:38.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_sort.c: use the remaining length for strncat, print an error if it'd truncate. quell level 5 flawfinder |
| 04:42.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/vdraw.c: don't need to make two calls, avoid strncat. quell level 5 flawfinder |
| 04:45.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: missing stdlib.h, quell warnings |
| 05:22.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: delint |
| 05:28.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add flawfinder to the regression suite (currently set to level 5 as there are too many unresolved at level 4) to keep an eye on new issues being introduced |
| 05:31.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (8 files): emphasize the result if it's a failure |
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| 08:02.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (22 files in 12 dirs): take care of a slew of level 4 flawfinder issues related to adding length parameters to string and i/o functions |
| 09:09.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 6 dirs): more taking care of a slew of level 4 flawfinder issues related to adding length parameters to string and i/o functions |
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| 10:08.17 | Tony_Alva_Edison | brlcad: wohoo, you applied my almost useless patch to pix-fb :) |
| 10:11.38 | Tony_Alva_Edison | It's rt_booleval! |
| 10:11.58 | Tony_Alva_Edison | my openbsd gprof returned bullshit anyway - these functions weren't mentioned with significant numbers anyway |
| 10:15.00 | Tony_Alva_Edison | what about rewriting *sp++ = treep; /* temp val for guard node */ *sp++ = &tree_guard[resp->re_cpu]; |
| 10:15.13 | Tony_Alva_Edison | as sp[0]=treep; sp[1]=&tree_guard[resp->re_cpu]; ? |
| 10:15.28 | Tony_Alva_Edison | cause the ++ causes a write into the pointer which could worsen stall conditions |
| 10:18.14 | Tony_Alva_Edison | yeah and then of course sp+=2; |
| 10:25.23 | Tony_Alva_Edison | or maybe grow_stack is called too many times which calls bu_realloc? |
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| 20:17.49 | yukonbob | hello, whirled |
| 20:19.55 | yukonbob | ?what is libtclcad supposed to offer -- it looks like it's a glorified PATH statement (at first glance) to me.... |
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| 21:38.21 | brlcad | yukonbob, glorified auto_path statement |
| 21:38.53 | brlcad | as well as a few other setup/initialization routines |
| 21:39.21 | brlcad | it's the start of moving the tcl-related interfaces out of the "core" libraries (libbu, libbn, librt) and moving them into one tclcad library |
| 21:40.02 | brlcad | the base libraries ideally won't have any external dependencies in the long term |
| 22:16.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (31 files in 8 dirs): more level 4 flawfinder issues. mostly string length clampages. |
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| 22:52.20 | yukonbob | hello, whirled |
| 00:08.20 | ``Erik | *yawrn* |
| 00:11.04 | yukonbob | ~lart yawning |
| 00:11.04 | ibot | executes killall -KILL yawning |
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| 01:26.29 | jack|ass | Is there a list of prerequisites for BRL? I'm trying to compile 7.10.2 and get an error about it expecting a specifier-quantifier-list before XVisualInfo in dm_obj.c. |
| 01:26.41 | jack|ass | I do have the xutil-dev package installed though. |
| 01:32.51 | ``Erik | there are prereqs, btu most have the source included in src/other |
| 01:33.10 | ``Erik | if you're getting an X11 error, it's probably a bug in our ocnifgure :( |
| 01:33.59 | jack|ass | it looks like it's including the source. :-/ |
| 01:34.03 | jack|ass | that's what I was afraid of. |
| 01:36.35 | jack|ass | I'm looking for something kinda like autocad to do some simple modeling of a wooden project box. BRL looks like it fits the bill. |
| 01:36.36 | jack|ass | AH. |
| 01:36.37 | jack|ass | got it. |
| 01:37.04 | jack|ass | the configure script that it comes with was the culprit methinks. I re-read the documentation and ran autogen to make it create one for my system. |
| 01:37.51 | jack|ass | I wonder if removing the configure file by default to force people to run autogen might prevent people compiling from source from hitting that? |
| 02:41.52 | yukonbob | ``Erik: you much details about the bwish command, specifically, what it offers over the typical wish? |
| 02:42.30 | yukonbob | s/you much/you know/ |
| 02:50.07 | brlcad | it has the brl-cad built-in commands & libs preloaded |
| 02:50.25 | brlcad | e.g. itcl/itk/iwidgets/... are all preloaded |
| 02:50.35 | brlcad | as well as some brl-cad-specific commands |
| 02:50.41 | brlcad | bu_brlcad_data . for example |
| 05:13.20 | yukonbob | I'm looking at setting it up as a loadable module -- I've got it loading w/o error, but haven't exported the commands... |
| 05:13.59 | yukonbob | that way I hope to be able to use the canonical wish/tclsh and have it Just Work(tm) |
| 05:15.47 | yukonbob | *where "setting it up" == setting up libtclcad |
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| 05:27.33 | brlcad | cool, that's be awesome |
| 05:28.16 | brlcad | the big one is automatically setting up autopath -- it needs to do that onload .. and to load it, though, it needs the auto_path :) |
| 05:28.22 | brlcad | interesting to hear how you deal with that :) |
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| 08:26.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is reverse perspective possible in BRL-CAD? |
| 08:27.29 | Z80-Boy | i. e. instead of shooting parallel rays (no perspective, isometric) or divergent rays (perspective), shooting convergent rays? |
| 11:35.32 | ``Erik | the rt front end doesn't have anything like that, but there's nothing stopping the libraries... just requires some code laid down :/ |
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| 12:19.22 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/doom0.jpg http://www.rayforce.net/doom1.jpg etc. In case anyone is curious of the friendly and simple marriage |
| 12:20.08 | Maloeran | Thanks Erik :) |
| 12:20.24 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/doom4.jpg Wedding cake, yar |
| 12:20.50 | ``Erik | so you actually bothered with a ceremony instead of just eloping? |
| 12:21.09 | Maloeran | It was somewhat required, but it lasts about 3 minutes |
| 12:21.39 | ``Erik | I thought the US legal varient was just walking up to a counter and signing some paper and forking over $20 |
| 12:21.51 | Maloeran | Oh, we married in Montreal |
| 12:22.30 | ``Erik | when my brother got married, they did a ceremony with a wiccan priestess at a haunted hotel, cuz they're nerds... then we threw 'em in the car and drove 'em by city hall and they walked in and walked out a couple minutes later legal, then off to pizza and beer O.o |
| 12:22.40 | Maloeran | Then we went to some nice chalet I had rented, with friends for the week-end |
| 12:22.52 | Maloeran | Cute :) |
| 12:23.02 | ``Erik | get this, they found a wiccan priestess and haunted hotel... in arkansas... that held their wedding on halloween. |
| 12:23.08 | ``Erik | in arkansas. |
| 12:23.15 | ``Erik | without any lynchings |
| 12:23.17 | ``Erik | *boggle* |
| 12:23.43 | Maloeran | Mmhm. I think things are a bit more strict in Montreal regarding what a legal marriage is |
| 12:23.43 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: are you the guy in the pictures? |
| 12:23.47 | ``Erik | (of course, the town is an "art town" with a big halloween tradition and major blgt turnout, the rednecks would've been outnumbered) |
| 12:23.48 | Maloeran | Yes Z80-Boy |
| 12:23.55 | ``Erik | yeah, I think mal is the one in the brown dress |
| 12:24.07 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 12:24.28 | Maloeran | Well you are in luck, this is not quite a "true" marriage :) |
| 12:24.30 | ``Erik | cover your hiney, alexis, karel is lookin' for lovin' :D *duck* |
| 12:24.40 | Z80-Boy | alexis? |
| 12:24.49 | Maloeran | In french, it's a male name |
| 12:25.01 | Z80-Boy | I know another guy called alexis and he's very cute |
| 12:25.23 | ``Erik | yes, most masculine words in french are feminine in other languages *cough* O:-) |
| 12:25.45 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: no worries, you obviously suffer from the women attraction syndrome |
| 12:25.54 | ``Erik | (and in german, the feminine stuff is so masculine it has beards and well fucking beat your ass down) |
| 12:26.03 | Maloeran | What's that "syndrome" exactly, Z80-Boy? |
| 12:26.10 | Maloeran | Oh nevermind, I get it |
| 12:26.21 | Z80-Boy | well it usually starts on the primary school with a preoccupation towards girls |
| 12:26.30 | Z80-Boy | and ends up in horrible things like marriage etc. |
| 12:26.46 | Z80-Boy | It's so common they didn't even bother to put it into DSM-IV |
| 12:27.02 | ``Erik | hum, I don't think marriage is so bad... |
| 12:27.05 | Maloeran | Right. I'm still a bit sleepy from that week-end... She actually managed to get me to drink quite a bit, for the first time in my life |
| 12:27.11 | Z80-Boy | There are only 2 ways out of marriage - a divorce or death |
| 12:27.23 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: I'm just joking... |
| 12:27.39 | ``Erik | I even 'belong' to a local organization fighting for blgt rights for marraige, even though I'm straight *shrug* |
| 12:28.41 | ``Erik | um, I'm sure if you'd go outside, you could find a boytoy pretty easily |
| 12:28.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 12:29.16 | Z80-Boy | yeah but I don't want a boytoy |
| 12:29.17 | Maloeran | I really don't know much on the topic, but I would assume that things should be fairly simple between two guys |
| 12:29.31 | Z80-Boy | yeah getting a guy for sex is quite easy |
| 12:29.38 | Z80-Boy | you don't have to do anything for it at all |
| 12:29.49 | ``Erik | I mean, I barely ever step out, and have been "up on" on too many women in the last couple years |
| 12:30.08 | Z80-Boy | I was once in a shower room in a swimming pool and it was end of the opening time and the showers were broken so I had to go from one to another to get the last bit of warm water |
| 12:30.24 | Maloeran | Eh Erik, it's much rarer for me |
| 12:30.32 | Z80-Boy | there was another guy and when I got to him he misinterpreted it as a signal and tried to simply grab my dick |
| 12:30.40 | Maloeran | I think it's related to a complete lack of skills to "flirt" or whatever |
| 12:30.56 | ``Erik | between that, 'world of warcraft', and getting upset at work and drinking myself fucktarded |
| 12:30.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 12:31.00 | Z80-Boy | Fortunately my reflex was faste so he didn't manage to touch me |
| 12:31.21 | Maloeran | That's a bit disturbing, Z80-Boy, way too quick and spontaneous |
| 12:31.25 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: it's related to the simple skill of not being picky |
| 12:31.55 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: but that's how it works between gays |
| 12:31.59 | Maloeran | I think it's mostly related to the fact that I don't meet new girls at all in my daily routine |
| 12:32.06 | Z80-Boy | if you like each other and want to have just sex there is no barrier |
| 12:32.06 | Maloeran | I see. |
| 12:32.21 | Z80-Boy | you don't have to buy flower movie tickets dinners nothing |
| 12:32.21 | ``Erik | you can get that with girls easily enough |
| 12:32.54 | ``Erik | the risk is if you stick with 'em too long |
| 12:33.00 | ``Erik | hit 'em and ditch 'em *cough* O:-) |
| 12:33.08 | ``Erik | ooh, 3some, nice |
| 12:33.09 | Z80-Boy | The problem is I don't want just sex |
| 12:33.15 | Maloeran | No Erik, I'm not going :) |
| 12:33.20 | ``Erik | ... |
| 12:33.40 | ``Erik | so, uh, your wedding gift... is... to send your chick and her lesbo lover to a spa... |
| 12:33.41 | ``Erik | um |
| 12:33.45 | ``Erik | you may've fucked up |
| 12:33.46 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 12:33.51 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: lol |
| 12:34.28 | Z80-Boy | and to do the "flirting" stuff... omg that's so boring |
| 12:34.42 | Z80-Boy | talking about nothing going to boring places like cafeterias.. |
| 12:35.18 | Z80-Boy | or like going to gay student "evenings with dinner" |
| 12:35.20 | Maloeran | Erik, again, this is mostly an arranged mariage ; we are close and very good friends, but not quite up to the "spouse" status except in the legal sense |
| 12:35.35 | Z80-Boy | You have basically 20-30 quite intelligent gay students which are either too ugly or not intelligent enough |
| 12:35.40 | ``Erik | I know, I'm just mockin' ya :D |
| 12:35.46 | Z80-Boy | Plus all of them are, without an exception, boring |
| 12:35.49 | ``Erik | sorry, I've been drinkin' this morning *cough* |
| 12:35.58 | Z80-Boy | talk about politics, travel their studies and parents etc. |
| 12:36.35 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, I actually greatly enjoy such times with my "wife" |
| 12:36.39 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: so you don't have to care about if your bed frame is strong enough to withstand the dynamic load? |
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| 12:36.59 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, probably not on a regular basis. Besides, I'm soon leaving for Australia for a month ( alone ) |
| 12:37.34 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, the things you describe are the foundations of friendship |
| 12:37.46 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: doing boring stuff together? |
| 12:38.12 | Maloeran | If you ever want something more than casual and brief encounters, you may want to explore the kind of activities that would lead to real friendship |
| 12:38.21 | Z80-Boy | which are? |
| 12:38.46 | Maloeran | Restaurants, talking about a variety of topics, about any kind of activity done together? |
| 12:38.52 | Z80-Boy | omg |
| 12:38.55 | Z80-Boy | better be alone there |
| 12:38.59 | Z80-Boy | then |
| 12:39.09 | Z80-Boy | anything but restaurants please |
| 12:39.25 | Maloeran | Then cook together |
| 12:41.17 | Z80-Boy | that needs a stove |
| 12:41.22 | Z80-Boy | and stove is usually in a flat |
| 12:41.33 | Z80-Boy | and it's not a good idea to stick untrusted people into your flat right? |
| 12:42.56 | Maloeran | I assume you generally have met the person once or twice before that point, but I don't really see a problem with that |
| 12:43.01 | Z80-Boy | and then I can imagine all the exchanges like "hey you left sticky spots on the kitchen floor", "the kitchen tiles are yucky", "you poured water on the bathroom floor", "you should sweep the living room", "there are black smudge marks on the balcony from your experiments" etc. |
| 12:43.31 | Z80-Boy | you should turn the computer off overnight the fan sound is disturbing me... |
| 12:44.42 | Z80-Boy | your electric home trainer is really crazy you should throw it into trash... |
| 12:44.54 | Z80-Boy | you spend too much time on ronja development and too little time with me... |
| 12:45.14 | Z80-Boy | I want chairs like this and you want chairs like that... |
| 12:45.45 | Z80-Boy | good that gays at least don't have to have children |
| 12:45.48 | Maloeran | I don't think you'll receive comments like that just for inviting a friend to cook and eat together |
| 12:46.08 | Z80-Boy | no but I mean like in the relationship |
| 12:49.05 | Maloeran | For some reason... I imagine it can be awkward to develop true friendship with guys, nothing more, when you are gay |
| 12:49.36 | Z80-Boy | no it's easy |
| 12:49.50 | Z80-Boy | I just can't find anyone who's both pretty and like a friend with me |
| 12:50.07 | Z80-Boy | I know loads of hetero guy who if they were gay and wanted me I would just jump on them |
| 12:50.30 | Z80-Boy | if they like computer electronics DIY etc. then it's fine |
| 12:51.36 | Maloeran | Ah yes, the population pool to pick from is smaller |
| 12:51.49 | Z80-Boy | and everyone is camp and boring ;-) |
| 12:51.53 | Z80-Boy | I hate camp |
| 12:52.01 | Maloeran | So do I Erik, but I think they all are the girlfriend of a friend :) |
| 12:52.41 | ``Erik | and I have a few gay friends *shrug* there's no issue as long as both parties accept there's no romantic possibility |
| 12:52.53 | Z80-Boy | I was in a dance club and it was fun except that |
| 12:52.56 | Z80-Boy | - it was too loud |
| 12:53.04 | Z80-Boy | - there was smoke instead of air |
| 12:53.11 | ``Erik | heh, I wear earplugs when I go to concerts :( I'm lame |
| 12:53.20 | Z80-Boy | - the people looked like they are pretending they are having fun but they are actually dead bored |
| 12:53.31 | ``Erik | and I get upset when they give me the guinness in a fucking plastic cup |
| 12:53.32 | Z80-Boy | - everyone looked like exactly the kind of personality I don't want |
| 12:53.41 | Maloeran | Ahah Z80-Boy |
| 12:53.51 | ``Erik | but when ya got children jumping around like idiots, it's probably better to have plastic... broken glass ain't so fun |
| 12:53.53 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: no you just aren't recklessly abandon stupid about your health |
| 12:54.24 | ``Erik | I d'no, I've managed to do a number on my health |
| 12:54.52 | Z80-Boy | Skatepark is fun |
| 12:54.53 | ``Erik | I cut off a finger, I rolled a car, I eat too much red meat and don't eat enough vegetables, I drink too much booze, I jam on my own guitar without earplugs... |
| 12:55.00 | Z80-Boy | people there are not aggressive and they are helpful |
| 12:55.07 | ``Erik | but I have tenitis in my right ear from having tubes several times as an infant |
| 12:55.09 | Z80-Boy | they smoke but you don't have to breath the smoke |
| 12:55.25 | ``Erik | so loud becomes physically painful in my right ear, when just loud in my left |
| 12:55.32 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I have tenitis too and just from nothing |
| 12:56.05 | Z80-Boy | o rmaybe it's an actute life-threatening hypochondria |
| 12:56.06 | Maloeran | What's a tenitis? Wikipedia doesn't know, therefore it doesn't exist |
| 12:56.10 | Z80-Boy | tinnitus |
| 12:56.14 | Z80-Boy | it's ringing in ear |
| 12:56.29 | Maloeran | Ah, thanks |
| 12:56.47 | Z80-Boy | the ear has like acousto-neural resonant circuits which are tuned just below the oscillations and the gain is controlled by downward path from the brain |
| 12:56.49 | ``Erik | mine sounds kinda staticky, almost like hearing your blood flow in your ear |
| 12:56.54 | Z80-Boy | if the control signal is wrong it starts oscillating |
| 12:57.04 | ``Erik | and it's really set off by the frequency that vaccuum cleaners happen to emit |
| 12:57.09 | Z80-Boy | after you get drunk when you are exhausted when you don't sleep enough when you damage the ear etc. |
| 12:57.32 | Z80-Boy | But it makes sense. Every sensitive amplifier ends up producing noise |
| 12:57.36 | ``Erik | and only in the right ear :/ |
| 12:57.55 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I have a crosstalk between the right jaw muscle and right ear |
| 12:57.55 | ``Erik | which actually sucks, cuz earbuds for phones are geared for the right ear |
| 12:58.04 | Maloeran | Erik, do you practice any physical activity on a regular basis? That would do much good too |
| 12:58.17 | Z80-Boy | if I tighten my jaw I hear quite strong tinnitus in right ear - like TV running, high pitch noise etc. |
| 12:58.27 | ``Erik | yes, I frequently do weight lifting. My forte is the 12 oz curl. |
| 12:58.39 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 12:58.40 | ``Erik | though I've been heavy on the 1.5 oz lift |
| 12:58.46 | Maloeran | That's... a start, I think :) |
| 12:59.08 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: weight lifting is useless - I did it and I didn't get any boyfriend from that |
| 12:59.19 | Z80-Boy | The problem is not that they don't want me. The problem is I don't want them. |
| 12:59.30 | ``Erik | hum, may be a cultural skew here... |
| 12:59.34 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: OMG my heart would probably explode in a nuclear detonation |
| 12:59.45 | ``Erik | if I said "pint curl", would it change the meaning for you? |
| 13:00.10 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: at least you don't pretend yourself you want to spend the whole life in a gym to make sure your body would look nice in the coffin |
| 13:00.30 | ``Erik | muscle needs upkeep, or it turns to fat |
| 13:00.47 | ``Erik | and I've always had a LOT more respect for gymnast muscles than body builder muscles |
| 13:01.00 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, I hope not all your activities are about "getting a boyfriend" |
| 13:01.01 | ``Erik | not much to look at, but the performance through the range is damn impressive |
| 13:01.05 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: don't worry the undertaker can cutt your beer belly off with a chainsaw if the coffin lid timber should break through |
| 13:01.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:01.33 | ``Erik | I'm 68 kg, I can fit in the pine box. |
| 13:01.34 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: no - I figured out getting a boyfriend requires sacrificing more fun that an estimated fun outcome |
| 13:01.56 | Maloeran | Being in good physical shape makes you feel much better, it's a matter of chemistry, it's not related to your appearance or what other people think |
| 13:02.10 | Z80-Boy | yeah but feeling better doesn't get me a boyfriend |
| 13:02.36 | Maloeran | Nice Erik, I would have assumed more than 68kg ( no offense meant ). I'm 64kg |
| 13:03.19 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: at least you don't have to mount a double skateboard deck on the trucks |
| 13:03.29 | ``Erik | last time I went to the jungle gym, I got on the bench and was able to push 130 lbs several times, so I don't feel too terrible about my shape |
| 13:03.57 | Maloeran | Yes, probably so |
| 13:04.01 | ``Erik | but less dense... more fat, less muscle :D |
| 13:04.10 | Z80-Boy | I went to a gym and then I was cleaning the heating pipes and I thought my hand falls off and I lose consciousness |
| 13:04.20 | Maloeran | I think so too :). I can do one arm pull-ups for example, too much wall and rock climbing |
| 13:04.21 | Z80-Boy | I mean all those bicepses and tricepses are absolutely useless |
| 13:04.33 | Z80-Boy | When you want to do real work you feel like a cripple anyway |
| 13:04.43 | ``Erik | "cleaning the heating pipes"? um, ... if that's not a double entendre... |
| 13:04.48 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 13:04.54 | Z80-Boy | lol no |
| 13:05.16 | ``Erik | <-- cannot do a 1 arm pullup or lift |
| 13:05.22 | Z80-Boy | there was some sticky oily stuff on it probably the heating liquid |
| 13:05.25 | ``Erik | I don't think so, anyways |
| 13:05.36 | ``Erik | I mean, last time I tried, I was only benching like 70lbs |
| 13:05.46 | Z80-Boy | If I go to gym and train bicepses the result is exactly as if I don't train them |
| 13:05.51 | Maloeran | Erik, as long as you can at least pull up with 2 arms.. :) |
| 13:05.57 | Z80-Boy | I can lift always only the same weight the same amount of times |
| 13:06.08 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, lifting weight is boring, try wall and rock climbing |
| 13:06.09 | ``Erik | I'm a lot stronger now than when I actually exercised, for some strange reason |
| 13:06.25 | ``Erik | but I lack the endurance I used to have, especially cardiovascular |
| 13:06.25 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: as long as you are able to topple over into a coffin, you are in an acceptable physical shape ;-) |
| 13:07.14 | ``Erik | I used to run a 2 mile track and do some aggressive greenway biking |
| 13:07.15 | Z80-Boy | 2 mile omg my heart would probably explode |
| 13:07.15 | ``Erik | now I mostly move couches and tables to clean |
| 13:07.15 | Z80-Boy | my anaerobic threshold is after 50 metres |
| 13:07.34 | Maloeran | That... could be improved |
| 13:07.37 | ``Erik | z80: run it slow and keep going... |
| 13:07.42 | ``Erik | walk if needed |
| 13:07.56 | ``Erik | but do a distance, and do it slow... build up speed over time |
| 13:08.11 | ``Erik | sprinting 50m and stopping is useless :D |
| 13:08.50 | Z80-Boy | If I took a computer with me I could even maybe convince myself to continue |
| 13:08.55 | Z80-Boy | strap a laptop on my neck... |
| 13:09.00 | ``Erik | y'know, I bought running shows intent on tackling the greenway I freakin' live on... but I've more or less burnt them out as casual wear |
| 13:09.02 | Z80-Boy | then it could even be non-boring :) |
| 13:09.23 | ``Erik | um |
| 13:09.39 | ``Erik | I soemtimes think code |
| 13:09.48 | Z80-Boy | good idea |
| 13:09.53 | ``Erik | if I spend more time typing than thinking, I'm using the wrong language |
| 13:10.01 | Maloeran | I find it very hard to think when doing any intense physical activity |
| 13:10.02 | ``Erik | or working on the wrong problems |
| 13:10.15 | ``Erik | a light jog isn't too intense... :D |
| 13:10.23 | ``Erik | or bike riding |
| 13:11.02 | ``Erik | when I was on the trail, I could push up to 30mph and still have free cycles... it was when I was off road that I needed to focus... |
| 13:11.18 | ``Erik | going down hills that actually threw the rfeakin' chain off the derailer |
| 13:11.33 | ``Erik | another car door and stitches? :> |
| 13:11.39 | Maloeran | She's dangerous emotionally and profesionally to me, but it seems even physically |
| 13:12.00 | Maloeran | Eh no, I was distracted and bumped through a big hole I didn't see |
| 13:12.08 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:12.21 | ``Erik | but not 'stop the front wheel' big? |
| 13:12.34 | ``Erik | just 'bust the boys on the seat' big? |
| 13:12.40 | Maloeran | Not quite, but enough to lose balance when you aren't expecting that kind of bump |
| 13:12.59 | Maloeran | Especially with just one hand on the handles... |
| 13:13.54 | Maloeran | Tsk! Pointing left to show the way to go :) |
| 13:14.40 | ``Erik | yeah, uh |
| 13:14.43 | ``Erik | words are good, too. |
| 13:15.13 | Maloeran | We went to try fancy wedding dresses for almost 2 hours that day, although she finally decided against the idea, and dresses casually at the wedding as you could see |
| 13:15.22 | Maloeran | and dressed* |
| 13:15.43 | ``Erik | yeah, heh |
| 13:15.50 | ``Erik | nudists have it figured out. I'm envious. :D |
| 13:17.13 | Maloeran | Ah :) |
| 13:17.31 | ``Erik | is... that... a... pig? ... |
| 13:17.42 | ``Erik | and a goat? |
| 13:17.43 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 13:17.44 | Maloeran | Yup! |
| 13:18.02 | Maloeran | We wanted to do horseback riding during the week-end, but it looks like we should have made a reservation |
| 13:18.25 | ``Erik | and a slew of landscapes |
| 13:18.29 | Maloeran | So we went rock climbing on easy tracks without any gear |
| 13:18.35 | ``Erik | annnndddd it ends |
| 13:18.57 | ``Erik | 18 pics, half landscape... lame :) |
| 13:19.03 | ``Erik | </haxx0r> |
| 13:19.23 | Maloeran | Ah :). She doesn't like me taking pictures of her |
| 13:19.50 | ``Erik | and no nudies of the girl |
| 13:19.53 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 13:22.10 | ``Erik | opposed to cmd 2>&1 > file |
| 13:24.08 | ``Erik | I'm annoyed at how autoconf subconfigure re-tests a lot of boilerplate shit instead of using a cache file |
| 13:25.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 13:25.40 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 13:25.54 | ``Erik | updating the fbsd port of bugle... it does a subconfig |
| 13:28.13 | ``Erik | so, uh, mal... for data manip, you'd take C over compiled lithp? O.o |
| 13:29.41 | ``Erik | lithp pairs with gc give you the ability to do any data structure trivially... at C speeds with the right compiler... O.o |
| 13:30.23 | Maloeran | I would take C over anything, for flexibility and performance. Other languages might be more convenient, but my very high comfort with C makes it very difficult to beat |
| 13:30.37 | Maloeran | Perhaps if I had as much experience with Lisp as with C, I would use it more |
| 13:30.46 | ``Erik | ah, but if you always take the most comfortable option |
| 13:30.50 | ``Erik | how will you ever grow? |
| 13:31.43 | ``Erik | now I'm no lithp guru, I'm more into scheme in that vein... but when I see a problem that cl looks.. right... I won't dismiss it otu of hand |
| 13:32.03 | Maloeran | Oh, I explore other options, but I'm not convinced that Lithp would be more appropriate than C, even if I was as fluent with both |
| 13:32.04 | ``Erik | I have to admit, I saw a problem where I thought ruby was optimal... but I was wrong. |
| 13:32.13 | Maloeran | Eheh |
| 13:32.16 | ``Erik | at 95%, I was seriously feeling like scheme would've been far better |
| 13:32.44 | ``Erik | probably fixable issues, but they were all minor gotchas |
| 13:33.00 | ``Erik | and I got ok results in a fraction of te time that just the book keeping in C would've taken :) |
| 13:33.52 | ``Erik | and over the last couple of days, I've been looking at a program that I'd originally written in scheme, then re-wrote in C |
| 13:33.59 | ``Erik | and I'm wondering if I made a mistake in doing that |
| 13:34.07 | ``Erik | and I should quit starting lines iwth and. |
| 13:34.37 | ``Erik | perhaps if I were more familiar with something like glib.... |
| 13:35.01 | ``Erik | I'm tired of re-writing a linked list module. or tweaking one I carry from elsewhere |
| 13:35.26 | Maloeran | I have always reused that piece of code for 5 years, never needed tweaking |
| 13:35.44 | ``Erik | and I'm repulsed by the blind cast linked list style |
| 13:36.02 | ``Erik | I tried to kill it in BRL-CAD, but lee whined and said it wasn't really an issue |
| 13:36.03 | Maloeran | Tsk! I love void pointers and memory addressing magic |
| 13:36.14 | ``Erik | I watched freebsd go through serious pain to eliminate it from the kenrel |
| 13:36.46 | ``Erik | when it's right, it's ok... but it lends itself to a miscast which can seg or bus out |
| 13:37.14 | ``Erik | and I'm so damn perfect at coding that I know I'm not perfect at coding, pheer the zen. |
| 13:39.56 | ``Erik | aight dudes, ponder... |
| 13:40.10 | ``Erik | a huge csg type tree/graph... tons of ors up top |
| 13:40.25 | ``Erik | finding a subset that is mostly ands with some ors... |
| 13:40.38 | ``Erik | I'm thinking the first cut would be reduction |
| 13:41.02 | ``Erik | make a copy of the tree with everything not in te needle eliminated from the haystack |
| 13:41.21 | ``Erik | thus reducing the search space significantly in O(n) |
| 13:41.26 | ``Erik | thoughts? |
| 13:42.16 | Maloeran | What's the big picture of the problem? |
| 13:42.36 | ``Erik | um |
| 13:43.01 | Maloeran | I don't really get "finding a subset" part |
| 13:43.51 | ``Erik | I have 8 zillion standardized minimal primitive parts (bolts, plate, etc)... I have this THING, made out of parts a and b and (c or d), what possible shelf component am I looking at, give me a minimal list of possibilities |
| 13:45.13 | ``Erik | does that clear up what problem I'm thinking about? :) |
| 13:46.00 | ``Erik | I think linear elimination is the best first whack |
| 13:46.17 | ``Erik | followed by a more additive method (mebbe even brute force) |
| 13:46.33 | ``Erik | I'd love to know why I'm wrong O.o :D |
| 13:46.55 | Maloeran | I would have to know quite a bit more about how you associate the THING's parts to the 8 zillion parts, and how the latter are organized... It may take a while to explain, and you probably have it mostly figured out |
| 13:47.22 | ``Erik | ok, the primitive parts are as minimal as you can get |
| 13:47.36 | ``Erik | in csg land, we can admit that they're, say, brlcad primitives |
| 13:47.49 | ``Erik | cylinders, spheres, torii, even bots |
| 13:48.16 | ``Erik | a standard, say, radio... contains a certain subset of those parts |
| 13:48.58 | ``Erik | now I have a random thing made up of low level parts... but I don't know what the thing is.... is it a radio? a wheel? I don't know... what's the minimal list for a human to choose from for what it could be? |
| 13:49.08 | ``Erik | (ignoring fully tesselated geometry) |
| 13:49.31 | ``Erik | (this is transliterated, of course... I'm not REALLY thinking about BRL-CAD geometry, it's my day off ;) |
| 13:49.53 | Maloeran | I got that part :) |
| 13:50.25 | ``Erik | an alternate approach would be if I was dorking with electronics, and wanted to make a circuit... I have a list of parts available, what's the set of possible circuits I could make |
| 13:51.04 | Maloeran | Thinking |
| 13:51.23 | ``Erik | I've thought, I think the first cut using elimination is ... probably optimal |
| 13:51.42 | ``Erik | assuming it cuts 10,000 to 100 |
| 13:51.59 | Maloeran | The question really is how to organize the 8 zillion parts for search to be quick |
| 13:52.18 | ``Erik | yes, I've thought about sorting to help cut |
| 13:52.32 | ``Erik | but I still think cut is the best first notion, generating a subtree |
| 13:52.32 | Maloeran | I would opt for a graph with many different kind of links between nodes, but there are many variations possible on the details |
| 13:52.39 | Maloeran | A tree, really? |
| 13:52.45 | ``Erik | well |
| 13:52.45 | ``Erik | dag |
| 13:53.04 | ``Erik | sorry, I'm used to dags being reduced to trees |
| 14:02.22 | Maloeran | Contributions have to be checked and validated, somehow |
| 14:02.25 | Maloeran | Oops. |
| 14:09.37 | brlcad | Maloeran: ehehe .. you look rather nervous there |
| 14:09.47 | ``Erik | uh |
| 14:09.54 | ``Erik | dude, do ya blame him? he got married O.o |
| 14:10.28 | Maloeran | :) Ahah |
| 14:10.36 | Maloeran | I think I was a bit nervous, yes |
| 14:22.34 | brlcad | especially since she's staring intently at you, and at least in those pictures you're intently NOT looking at her :) |
| 14:22.41 | ``Erik | *snrkt* |
| 14:23.01 | brlcad | classic "pretty girl is making me nervous" look |
| 14:23.06 | ``Erik | I didn't really notice that |
| 14:23.07 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 14:23.24 | ``Erik | but in 0 and 1, yeah |
| 14:23.38 | Maloeran | I didn't notice either! But it makes sense, she asked that we face each other |
| 14:24.10 | ``Erik | oh yeah, um |
| 14:24.22 | Maloeran | Ahaha |
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| 15:08.05 | brlcad | mailbox .. almost .. cleaned .. out .. |
| 15:20.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:50.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't blather the error message if the display cannot be opened. cleanup the logic a bit too to print a message if a detected type being tested for validity simply wasn't available during compilation. |
| 15:52.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: merge dm_bestXType fix in from head, this should quell the failure warnings that the m2 folks are seeing. |
| 15:56.09 | TommyLee | ``Erik: is it something classified? |
| 15:56.29 | brlcad | meh, they're a public influential customer -- for an issue like that it doesn't matter |
| 16:15.09 | ``Erik | they work in classified land, but technically they're not classified... |
| 16:15.28 | ``Erik | I'm just a puss when it comes to that stuff... |
| 16:43.14 | ``Erik | eh |
| 16:43.17 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:43.18 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:38.04 | *** join/#brlcad Mark____ (n=chatzill@stemcell.med.utoronto.ca) | |
| 17:39.20 | Mark____ | hello, n00b alert, sorry - anyone there? |
| 17:41.14 | Mark____ | anyways, I'm using BRL-CAD on windows, trying to make a gasket for standard biotech well plates. It works fine initially, but trying to facetize or convert to .STL format (the end goal, so I can print some objects) seems to become exponentially slower with the number of objects involved. |
| 17:41.20 | ``Erik | NO |
| 17:42.03 | ``Erik | the csg -> nmg conversion is something like O(n^3) bceause it attempts to preserve solidity |
| 17:44.07 | Mark____ | I am working with 96-well plates, and each well has a core volume, a countersink, a raised rim and one or two other bits, and it basically just doesn't work, it crashes before completing the conversion - is there any way around this problem? |
| 17:45.04 | Mark____ | (BTW I may be missing something obvious, I am very new at this e.g. about 1 week) |
| 17:52.16 | ``Erik | conversion? also, in cvs head, "clone" now works on v5 db's... |
| 17:53.08 | ``Erik | "basically just doesn't work" isn't terribly descriptive |
| 17:58.28 | Mark____ | sorry, I am also new to the vocabulary around this :) ... I have made the geometry I want as CSG, but I need to make an STL file so I can print the object. Unfortunately, as there are 96 * 4 minimal objects plus the common base block, whenever I try to convert to .STL format, (or just facetize the thing) I get (OBJ1 u OBJ2) and ((OBJ1 u OBJ2) u OBJ3) etc very quickly, but then it gets up... |
| 17:58.30 | Mark____ | ...around (((((((....)...)...)...)..) u OBJ 50) and gets slower and slower and slower - I would estimate the tesselation (is that the right word for this?) would take days if not weeks to complete |
| 18:01.07 | Mark____ | PS I didn't understand the "clone" reference - is that another way to make the objects so that it only tesselates them once and then copies afterwards? |
| 18:24.18 | ``Erik | it will be very very very slow, and the (()) stuff is related to tesselation, it's not necessarily bad |
| 18:25.08 | ``Erik | clone is if you have an object and if you want many more (a deep copy, even), it'll do it... that's something I just fixed in the last week or two :) |
| 18:33.47 | Mark____ | OK, thanks - so just so I'm clear on this, there is basically no way around this and I will just need to bite the bullet and burn a lot of CPU cycles - is that accurate? |
| 18:35.57 | Mark____ | also - would it be a Bad Thing if I were to try to fake it by tesselating one object and then making a script to duplicate that 96 times (with modified XY coords) in the STL file? |
| 18:54.34 | ``Erik | yes, nmg will take some monsterous cpu. |
| 18:54.55 | ``Erik | seriously O(n^3) |
| 18:55.06 | ``Erik | sorry :( |
| 19:42.53 | Mark____ | OK, thanks. How do people deal with this issue in industry etc? Is it a general CAD limitation, or something specific to BRL-CAD / CSG modelling? |
| 20:19.37 | Mark____ | also, what does the n in O(n^3) refer to? triangles, or CSG primitives? e.g. is there any way to fool it by segmenting the part and somehow combining the segments at the end? |
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| 20:39.42 | brlcad | awesome, the new canon scanner does a pretty good job .. and fast |
| 20:40.06 | brlcad | might actually have sharable pdf's of the STEP standard before the end of the week |
| 20:41.07 | brlcad | Mark____: it's a general CAD limitation for the most part |
| 20:41.39 | brlcad | the O(n^3) refers to the amount of effort it takes to continually re-guarantee that the object that will result from the facetization process is, in fact, still a solid geometry object |
| 20:42.10 | brlcad | and that limitation is predominantly BRL-CAD specific, a inefficiency detail of the implementation approach |
| 20:44.24 | brlcad | breaking the tessellation task up into multiple object will save you loads of time, there are probably a few other "work-around" methods too, but letting it burn the cpu cycles is probably the easiest approach -- anything else is likely going to be manpower cycles that are more than the cpu cycles |
| 20:45.07 | brlcad | nothing wrong with tessellating one object and duplicating it -- you can do that inside brl-cad too, run 'facetize' command, then clone/copy the object N times |
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| 20:48.46 | Mark____ | OK, I will try that - once it has facetized an object though, does it re-tesselate it for the STL conversion, or just use the same triangles it has already made? |
| 20:50.06 | ``Erik | no, nmg gives bots, the bots are spewed to stl |
| 20:54.46 | Mark____ | also, what is the best way to select an object from the command line? I am having trouble with the Build Pattern tool (Error: invalid command name "pattern_control"), so I have resorted to little scripts, but I can't figure out how to select and copy from the command line |
| 20:56.42 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r274 10/trunk/ICPA/: Start the project |
| 20:59.36 | Mark____ | OK, I have to go offline for a bit, thanks very much for your help! - Mark |
| 21:07.25 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r275 10/trunk/ICPA/ (14 files in 7 dirs): stubs. |
| 21:25.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r276 10/trunk/ICPA/ (10 files in 5 dirs): |
| 21:25.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: initial engine stub |
| 21:25.14 | CIA-4 | libirc: VC71 build system |
| 22:45.00 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r277 10/trunk/ICPA/ (9 files in 6 dirs): stubs for the 4 main components. |
| 22:52.09 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r278 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: ++ the copy of the iterator, not the one we are copying |
| 22:52.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/gqa.sh: exit, not return |
| 23:40.32 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r279 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (4 files): make sure all the erase functions don't assume a returned iterator, and do a proper iter increment. |
| 23:53.03 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r280 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (IRCClient.cpp IRCServer.cpp): do reverse order deletion instead of iteration for vectors. |
| 00:01.41 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r281 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (IRCClient.cpp IRCServer.cpp TCPConnection.cpp): why do finds ourselves when STL provides a nice way to do them. |
| 00:04.36 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r282 10/trunk/ICPA/ (inc/ include/ include/common.h): include not inc |
| 00:05.35 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r283 10/trunk/ICPA/MSVC/VC71/ (ICPA_Common.vcproj ICPA_Engine.vcproj): include not inc |
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| 02:36.12 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r284 10/trunk/ICPA/ (9 files in 3 dirs): common utills that will be needed |
| 02:36.33 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r285 10/trunk/ICPA/ (include/common.h src/common/common.cpp): OS independent sleep function |
| 02:37.09 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r286 10/trunk/ICPA/ (4 files in 2 dirs): agent classes for handling server transactions. |
| 02:51.07 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r287 10/trunk/ICPA/src/engine/ (agents.cpp agents.h): init server networks from the config files for each agent. |
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| 05:03.09 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r288 10/trunk/ICPA/MSVC/VC71/ (4 files): use separate debug dirs for each module, so the PDBs work out |
| 05:16.16 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r289 10/trunk/ICPA/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): whitespace |
| 05:32.17 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r290 10/trunk/ICPA/ (8 files in 2 dirs): whitespace |
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| 13:27.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac doc/Makefile.am doc/book/Makefile.am): add the new docbook documentation to the dist |
| 14:08.22 | ``Erik | bleh |
| 14:16.58 | ``Erik | dork |
| 14:18.54 | ``Erik | *vgr vgr2.brl.mil 1.15 1.03 .92 .92 .86 .97 |
| 14:54.30 | brlcad | what frequency is that? |
| 15:06.43 | ``Erik | 400 kips |
| 15:06.49 | brlcad | what were the other two? |
| 15:07.05 | ``Erik | um, one of 'em was 330 |
| 15:07.41 | ``Erik | the one that's closer to 1 vgr was 345... the deviance in this is concerning |
| 15:08.08 | brlcad | yeah, sounds like external can affect the vm |
| 15:08.45 | ``Erik | I dunno if it's external stuff impacting... the machine has been pretty much dedicated to the vm |
| 15:08.56 | ``Erik | it might be unimpressive timing code in the throttle |
| 15:09.28 | brlcad | maybe, but that's a pretty big swing of a difference |
| 15:09.48 | brlcad | 345 -> 1.05 && 400 -> 0.97 |
| 15:11.13 | brlcad | 380 should be spot on if it's not influenced |
| 15:11.43 | brlcad | remember what 330 was? |
| 15:30.33 | ``Erik | like .87 |
| 15:30.53 | ``Erik | that 345 kips has a higher vgr than 400 is wrong. |
| 15:30.56 | brlcad | oh, wrong way :) |
| 15:31.33 | ``Erik | supersampling and averaging might give okish results, but this shit just ain't consistent |
| 15:32.17 | ``Erik | uh |
| 15:32.31 | ``Erik | did you get the latest clone stuff from adam or whoever at gsi? |
| 15:32.33 | brlcad | for a benchmark run that takes several hours to run, shouldn't have to supersample/average it |
| 15:32.45 | brlcad | latest clone stuff? |
| 15:32.52 | ``Erik | dwayne claims a -c flag that has never existed in the version we have int he repo |
| 15:33.14 | ``Erik | looks like the import was in '05 |
| 15:33.48 | brlcad | well, dwayne got the old sgi drives from adam, and they were the only copies that he knew of at the time that remained of that code |
| 15:34.20 | ``Erik | there're several discrepencies between what dwayne remembers and what is in there |
| 15:34.24 | brlcad | I have the whole data dump of the drives that I pulled, I can search for other copies, but I recall doing that search already for clone and finding the one I started with |
| 15:34.40 | ``Erik | like having multiple numbers in the part name, when the line is |
| 15:34.41 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:34.43 | brlcad | i don't doubt that there might have been more work, but we simply don't have that code |
| 15:34.57 | brlcad | i'll check again |
| 15:35.22 | ``Erik | I could see if dwayne will call up adam to sort this out |
| 15:35.59 | brlcad | probably easier to just rewrite the -c option |
| 15:36.41 | ``Erik | yeah, I told him that if I'm gonna do that, I'll want to sit down with him and get a formal grammar so it can be done right |
| 15:37.22 | ``Erik | he also is annoyed at the increment behavior, I guess we got an old version :) *shrug* |
| 15:39.22 | brlcad | howso, what'd he want? |
| 15:39.38 | brlcad | there's an increment param, just increments the number it finds at the end iirc |
| 15:40.00 | ``Erik | yeah, he wants the primitives to step with increment size, but the combinations to always increment by one |
| 15:40.15 | brlcad | ah, huh |
| 15:40.24 | ``Erik | I can forward the email if you want |
| 15:40.28 | brlcad | sure |
| 15:41.15 | brlcad | looking through even the cvs repo that he had, "a:b:fhi:m:n:p:r:t:v" is the longest form of the getopt line, and none have a 'c' |
| 15:41.24 | ``Erik | it's kinda hard to read, I use the unix reply style with the > prefix and interspersed comments... he tried the style, but didn't get the prefix |
| 15:41.47 | ``Erik | yeah, I looked through the file history, it never existed in the line we have... if we got a copy before it was implemented and forked, that'd explain a lot |
| 15:41.58 | brlcad | i mean in adam's cvs |
| 15:42.01 | ``Erik | oh |
| 15:42.02 | brlcad | he had his own going |
| 15:42.28 | brlcad | i think this drive was just an older copy to start with |
| 15:42.39 | ``Erik | what's the latest date on his repo? |
| 15:42.42 | brlcad | but regardless, he did say that it was the only copy remaining that he had when we got it |
| 15:42.55 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 15:43.03 | ``Erik | lost work, bummer |
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| 15:44.23 | brlcad | 2000.07.25.20.27.48 is the last version |
| 15:44.49 | brlcad | meh, trivial work, we were really really lucky to get the drives that we did |
| 15:45.10 | brlcad | it was *just* an old sgi drive chassis, no box, no connectors |
| 15:45.28 | brlcad | kermit fortunately had some connectors, we hooked it up to his O2 |
| 15:45.30 | brlcad | but then it didn't work |
| 15:45.36 | ``Erik | heh, wow |
| 15:45.38 | brlcad | so we took it apart |
| 15:45.48 | brlcad | smacked the drives up a bit |
| 15:45.55 | brlcad | put it back together, then it worked |
| 15:46.20 | brlcad | mounted up the drives, pulled the data off, prayed that it didn't burst into flames in the meantime |
| 15:47.18 | brlcad | the drives hadn't spun up in about 4 years from what I could tell |
| 15:47.19 | ``Erik | I had a 1.6g pata that I had to take apart and dork with (arm was hitting the platters), without a cleanroom... crossed my fingers while copying all the data off of it :) |
| 15:47.52 | brlcad | so we did get a mini goldmine, luckily |
| 15:48.23 | brlcad | there's about four other "useful" code modes that should be imported/updated at some point, as well as about a half dozen interesting models |
| 15:53.26 | ``Erik | :/ I shoulda called in, my stomach hurts like a mofo |
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| 16:11.33 | brlcad | off drives that were themselves about 7 years old back then |
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| 16:35.18 | starseeker | Heh - reminds me of the story about how they recovered the early usenet archives - IIRC they stuck the tapes in the freezer for a while before reading them |
| 16:36.40 | starseeker | I think MIT has some issues like that as well, recovering early code and thesis work... |
| 17:05.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx: |
| 17:05.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: update to the latest API changes where create_body_from_surfs() seems to have |
| 17:05.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: chnaged to create_solid_bodies_from_surfs() in the GeometryModifyTool class. |
| 17:05.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: looks like it just changed to return a list of bodies instead of one body, so we |
| 17:05.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: iterate over the bodies. this is entirely untested, but seems right according |
| 17:05.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: to the docs at https://svn.mcs.anl.gov/repos/ITAPS/cgm/trunk/geom/ |
| 17:18.12 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r291 10/trunk/ICPA/DESIGN: add the DESIGN notes that come from a good nights sleep |
| 18:18.35 | yukonbob | heh: "This is entirely untested, but seems right..." |
| 18:41.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: add firefox to browser list for help->manual |
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| 19:45.03 | ``Erik | http://koutuk.blogspot.com/2007/10/when-life-becomes-good-for-programmer.html |
| 19:49.59 | MinuteElectron | nice |
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| 20:14.14 | brlcad | heh |
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| 20:55.26 | ``Erik | O.o http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt |
| 21:12.46 | Maloeran | That language would still be rather slow to run |
| 21:15.37 | yukonbob | iirc, FreeBSD uses Forth to help boot itself... |
| 21:22.44 | CIA-4 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r292 10/trunk/ICPA/ (3 files in 2 dirs): setup to connect to the IRC server |
| 21:28.08 | ``Erik | I don't think it does anymore, but it used to |
| 21:29.10 | ``Erik | oh, n/m, it still has ficl in it heh |
| 21:36.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: |
| 21:36.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prevent crashing on a whole slew of cases where we end up iterating over either |
| 21:36.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: a null, uninitialized, or malformed list item. the current for loop while |
| 21:36.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: condition has to be non-NULL in order to do the next iteration, so make sure of |
| 21:36.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: it. this prevents a crash that was detected in the display geometry object |
| 21:36.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (where it had unitialized data). |
| 21:56.34 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 22:32.23 | louipc | do you think `man brlcad` should be changed to reflect the current installation? |
| 22:32.39 | louipc | in the FILES section at the end? |
| 22:52.52 | brlcad | oh, maybe already removed |
| 22:53.09 | louipc | oh haah I don't have cvs installed |
| 22:53.19 | louipc | I have to do that. I got several crashes :/ |
| 23:43.44 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: sounds like you've found a serious bug |
| 00:08.12 | brlcad | not really |
| 00:08.58 | louipc | is it possible to make a helix in BRLCAD? |
| 00:09.03 | brlcad | wasn't a serious bug, only rears its head when you write *other* code that is already wrong .. that was just a sanity check that should always be true |
| 00:09.46 | brlcad | louipc: ahhh, you're not the first to ask that ;) |
| 00:09.51 | brlcad | depends what kind, some yes |
| 00:10.03 | brlcad | others, not so easy |
| 00:11.09 | louipc | something like a sph traversing along the length of a rcc and subtracting it's path |
| 00:11.31 | brlcad | you can generally make one in one of a couple ways, using half-torii patterned up, or using the pipe primitive -- which of course limits the shape of the helix |
| 00:11.54 | brlcad | yeah, either torus or pipe effectively will give you that shape |
| 00:12.23 | louipc | oh patterned up I see |
| 00:12.24 | brlcad | a torus is representable as a swept sphere |
| 00:12.30 | louipc | I'll have to experiment |
| 00:17.39 | louipc | do you think it would be possible to draw something like this in BRLCAD? http://www.friotherm.com/impeller.jpg |
| 00:21.37 | brlcad | yeah, it's possible .. quite a hard part to model regardless, but possible |
| 00:22.30 | brlcad | the entire base structure is pretty trivial, something like an rcc, with an inner rcc and a torus subtracted |
| 00:22.46 | brlcad | the hard part is one of the blades |
| 00:22.51 | louipc | yeah it's the blades with their curves which are tricky |
| 00:23.34 | brlcad | if we had a birail primitive (on the wish list), it'd be easier, define two curves, interpolates the path |
| 00:24.33 | brlcad | without it, the shape looks like the edge of two parabolic ellipsoids attached together where the direct changes |
| 00:26.37 | brlcad | would be seriously tricky csg, probably about 10 primitives for each of the two blade sizes, then replicated in a radial pattern |
| 00:29.10 | brlcad | no easy way you'd get those blends along the base, though, that's for sure -- curvature on curvature is a weakness |
| 00:31.42 | louipc | yeah it's quite complex. hopefully I could make one of those eventually |
| 00:32.46 | brlcad | definitely eventually |
| 00:33.15 | louipc | but on a CNC :D |
| 00:33.33 | brlcad | in the wish list big picture, birail is a relatively high-priority item |
| 00:34.09 | brlcad | yeah.. i don't know how you'd even begin that on a CNC other than cutting out the raw shape |
| 00:34.41 | brlcad | that thing has plates that have been pressed to form, then power welded to the base if I had to guess from the look |
| 01:29.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: |
| 01:29.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: put comments on their own line. was going to add code to bu_log() to try and |
| 01:29.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: detect when there are no ... args, but it does not seem to work (at least on mac |
| 01:29.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: os x) as va_arg keeps scanning past the end giving the wrong count! |
| 01:31.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: |
| 01:31.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add GCC attribute declarations (when we're compiling with GCC of course) that |
| 01:31.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: help the compiler know that a particular function has printf-style arguments or |
| 01:31.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: is a function that never returns. add the attributes to the likes of bu_log, |
| 01:31.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bu_flog, and bu_bomb. code inspired from bz, thx. |
| 01:37.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/dg_obj.c librt/wdb_obj.c mged/cmd.c): |
| 01:37.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: change wdb_tree_cmd() to dgo_tree_cmd() so that we can have access to the |
| 01:37.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: display geometry (particularly, to get access to the 'who' command). modify the |
| 01:37.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: behavior of the mged 'tree' command so that if you don't provide it any options, |
| 01:37.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: it will display the tree for all objects displayed. this is in response and |
| 01:37.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: inspired by a tcl snippet from david loman that needed this functionality to aid |
| 01:37.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: in analyzing gqa output. |
| 01:44.26 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged 'tree' command now shows e'd objects instead of returning a usage error, processing the geometry that is e'd up on the display. |
| 01:47.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: update the usage to reflect the change |
| 02:10.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/rt/opt.c): |
| 02:10.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: john noticed that the -g and -G options were not working on the rt apps anymore |
| 02:10.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: due to the change to the default aspect from 1.0 to 0.0; and sure enough, he was |
| 02:10.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: right. the aspect ratio change (made several years ago!) was for the -V view |
| 02:10.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: aspect option, but obviously had other users in other files that used the value. |
| 02:10.57 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: this changes the default back to 1.0 while also adding a sanity check into the |
| 02:10.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: argument processor to make sure the aspect ratio is always a sane value. |
| 02:13.37 | louipc | brlcad: actually impellers are milled on CNC machines |
| 02:16.17 | brlcad | ah, interesting |
| 02:16.25 | louipc | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4984324514373898629&q=impeller+machining&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 |
| 02:16.27 | brlcad | would be interesting g-code |
| 02:16.34 | louipc | 5-axis |
| 02:16.45 | louipc | it's pretty damned sexy |
| 02:17.43 | starseeker | coool |
| 02:17.46 | louipc | damn I want one of those machines |
| 02:17.47 | brlcad | wow, that's pretty cool |
| 02:18.31 | brlcad | and it followed contours, so it had to have knowledge of the brep seams in the code |
| 02:18.54 | brlcad | pretty nifty/tricky |
| 02:19.22 | louipc | this one is even better http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9040285813914114865&q=impeller+machining&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1 |
| 02:20.50 | brlcad | somehow, I'm betting there's custom "impeller" software so that it can optimally cut it given how much precision those blades need to have |
| 02:23.20 | louipc | yeah there's some kind of software for that operation |
| 04:07.45 | yukonbob | louipc: very cool |
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| 06:19.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: |
| 06:19.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix a truely bizarre VC8 compilation error (spawning from warning C4346) where |
| 06:19.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: we either have to get rid of the typdefs or add this typename qualifier. docs |
| 06:19.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: purport that this is actually compliance required, so go with it. |
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| 08:00.30 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: |
| 08:00.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the last change crashed the build with MSVC V6.0 compiler |
| 08:00.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: made an ifdef for this compiler |
| 08:15.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: try just getting rid of the typedef -- does this work in vc6? |
| 08:33.31 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 08:49.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/ (MINOR PATCH): we're already on 7.11 for head, next release after 7.10.4 release will be a minor revision release at 7.12.0. |
| 08:49.31 | brlcad | hey daniel -- did that last opennurbs_ext.h change work for you? |
| 08:49.40 | brlcad | if not, I'll revert it |
| 08:52.16 | d_rossberg | brlcad: I've already fixed it (today), I hape to get rid of the MSVC 6 next year |
| 08:53.09 | brlcad | i know you did, then I commited like two minutes after you :) |
| 08:53.33 | brlcad | got rid of the typedef altogether, if it works, it's even simpler (should work..) |
| 08:55.22 | d_rossberg | brlcad: ah, I havm't seen, I'm not on the commits mailing list (to much "spam"), I'll have a look ... |
| 08:59.11 | brlcad | yeah, that's way too much for lots of folks |
| 08:59.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: include the other symbols that are currently being used in ef windows module |
| 08:59.29 | brlcad | could get the digest, but I'm sure you see the change during a cvs up anyways |
| 09:07.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: there was a segment -> BVSegment<BV> replacement missing |
| 09:08.06 | d_rossberg | brlcad: it should work now ;-) |
| 09:12.46 | brlcad | cool :) |
| 09:13.04 | brlcad | ah, wasn't sure if that was one of them |
| 09:13.18 | brlcad | if it was a constructor call or if there was some other routine called segment |
| 09:13.36 | brlcad | since it wasn't qualified as a BVNode<>:: |
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| 10:15.05 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: did you already find an opportunity to find what is taking so much time in the pathological rendering case? |
| 10:15.25 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: it's something in the boolean evaluation - that's called weaver isn't it? |
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| 13:22.37 | ``Erik | blah |
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| 16:26.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Added an optional doDraw parameter to the insert method. |
| 16:30.03 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Minor update. |
| 16:38.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added rtg3 |
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| 16:53.59 | ``Erik | blehhh |
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| 17:26.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libtcl/libtcl.vcproj: Updates to accomodate earlier reorganization. |
| 17:39.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libtk/libtk.vcproj: Updates to accomodate earlier reorganization. |
| 17:43.23 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/compnet.c: Include adrt_common.h so ADRT_NAME_SIZE gets defined. Add RCS tag. |
| 17:59.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: |
| 17:59.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: fix a nasty startup delay in a particular viewer app that uses the Mged |
| 17:59.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: megawidget (which in turn uses the Display megawidget, which uses Dm, which had |
| 17:59.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: a :0 hard-coded). this fixes the bug by making it use the DISPLAY environment |
| 17:59.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: variable. |
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| 07:43.30 | tofu | ``Erik: here's that link for 4.4 that I was looking for: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/apps/graphics/rays/brlcad/!INDEX.html |
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| 09:12.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (18 files in 9 dirs): more quellings of level 4 flawfinder issues |
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| 13:25.51 | ``Erik | cool |
| 13:44.56 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am config.h): configure generated files should not be in CVS |
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| 17:10.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/wish/wish.vcproj: Update to accomodate the earlier reorganization. |
| 17:15.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: Update to accomodate the earlier reorganization. |
| 17:19.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/liboptical/liboptical.vcproj: Updates to accomodate the earlier reorganization. |
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| 18:01.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libregex/libregex.vcproj: Initial check-in. |
| 18:02.48 | brlcad | go go gadget bob |
| 18:43.25 | dtidrow_work | heh |
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| 22:53.25 | louipc | lol I just got a copy of machinery's handbook and the corners are chamfered |
| 23:38.39 | ``Erik | brlcad is 100% vegetarian safe, made of soy |
| 23:39.36 | ``Erik | (and probably unconscious, as he's completely given up sleep the last few days to watch tv O.o :> *duck*) |
| 23:39.44 | starseeker | hehe |
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| 02:39.36 | brlcad | actually haven't seen a lick of tv in like four days now (since Heros) |
| 02:39.49 | brlcad | and that's par for the course |
| 02:39.59 | brlcad | even the past few nights coding have been music nights |
| 02:58.49 | ``Erik | heh, so ya missed southpark, silverman, and drawn together? O.o |
| 02:58.56 | brlcad | yup |
| 02:59.10 | brlcad | I haven't really seen much southpark via tv in *years* |
| 02:59.21 | brlcad | some over the net though |
| 03:00.27 | ``Erik | emacs on a mac, particularly using X, is very not newb friendly |
| 03:00.44 | ``Erik | meta in particular O.o |
| 03:29.47 | brlcad | I avoid alt, generally a non-portable key no matter what the app |
| 03:38.14 | ``Erik | <-- has no idea how to rebind meta to something else |
| 03:41.35 | brlcad | meta is alt and esc |
| 03:42.34 | brlcad | just it's modal as esc .. you don't press and hold it, you press and release, then press the secondary |
| 03:43.58 | brlcad | i.e. alt-'>' and alt-'<' are the same as esc,'>' and esc,'<' where - is press and hold and , means press then release |
| 03:44.09 | brlcad | those two are jump to end and beginning of file, btw |
| 03:44.51 | brlcad | pretty excellent cheat sheet that I used when I started: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/emacsrefcard.pdf |
| 03:47.21 | brlcad | the built-in tutorial isn't half bad either, ctrl-x h t |
| 03:47.46 | brlcad | it explains most of the concepts |
| 03:48.37 | brlcad | hah, awesomeness: http://www.ohloh.net/blog/worlds_oldest_source_code_repositories |
| 03:51.17 | louipc | lol |
| 05:32.23 | yukonbob | brlcad: congrats :) |
| 05:33.32 | yukonbob | ``Erik: esc++ -- alt is non-portable, and at least on my keyboards, too contortion-like... |
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| 11:11.32 | starseeker | <PROTECTED> |
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| 13:15.22 | ``Erik | so let me get this straight... vim sucks because to enter the more powerful editor commands, you generally have to push escape, then the command key |
| 13:15.37 | ``Erik | but emacs is better, because... well... the alt key sucks, so you have to push esc... then the command key |
| 13:15.51 | ``Erik | :> |
| 13:15.55 | ``Erik | oi, mal |
| 13:17.50 | Z80-Boy | (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.) |
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| 13:51.16 | Maloeran | Hey Erik |
| 13:57.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/tkimg/tkimg.vcproj: Update to accomodate the earlier reorganization. |
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| 15:17.35 | Maloeran | Hrmph. Does news.bbc.co.uk resolve for anyone? If yes, what's the IP? |
| 15:23.39 | MinuteElectron | resolves for me, checking ip |
| 15:24.21 | MinuteElectron | 212.58.226.29 |
| 15:24.26 | MinuteElectron | Maloeran: ... |
| 15:25.18 | MinuteElectron | Speaking of IP's resolving, can anyone check whether eve-online.com works for them? |
| 15:27.20 | Maloeran | It resolves to 87.237.39.199 but the server closes connection immediately upon reception of http requests |
| 15:27.35 | Maloeran | And for some reason I can't read the BBC today |
| 15:27.52 | brlcad | ~nslookup news.bbc.co.uk |
| 15:28.58 | Maloeran | The IP works although without images as it fails to resolve some other bbc.co.uk DNS |
| 15:29.15 | MinuteElectron | ~nslookup eve-online.com |
| 15:29.17 | brlcad | I get that it's a cname to newswww.bbc.net.uk |
| 15:29.22 | brlcad | which doesn't resolve to anything |
| 15:29.32 | brlcad | ~nslookup newswww.bbc.net.uk |
| 15:29.35 | brlcad | (via dig) |
| 15:29.47 | brlcad | looks like someone messed up |
| 15:29.59 | brlcad | probably take it a couple hours to propagate the fix |
| 15:30.15 | brlcad | way too popular a site for that to go unnoticed for more than a couple seconds |
| 15:30.24 | ``Erik | heh, unless they really botched up the ttl and serial or something :D |
| 15:30.24 | Maloeran | Neat |
| 15:31.18 | ``Erik | it used to be that the delimiter between competent sysadmins and newbies was the ability to set up bind |
| 15:38.01 | brlcad | really? never thought that bind was that tricky to set up .. just a fair bit to remember when you don't poke at it very often |
| 15:38.15 | brlcad | now setting up a secure sendmail... |
| 15:39.11 | brlcad | or recompiling your own custom kernel (and having it work reliably) .. that used to be quite a trick (when you had to do it entirely by hand) |
| 15:39.11 | Maloeran | Ah, the BBC'S DNS is fixed |
| 15:39.58 | Maloeran | Kernel recompilation is terribly simple these days, I'm not sure why it's commonly seen as something obscure never to attempt even by many Linux users |
| 15:40.48 | brlcad | now it is, yeah .. it's been really simplified |
| 15:42.58 | ``Erik | custom kernel on what? |
| 15:43.28 | brlcad | exactly |
| 15:43.47 | ``Erik | linux in the 1.2 days was about as fun as shoving a pen up your nostril until it pops out, but bsd has always been pretty damn easy, even the 'hard' ones like obsd |
| 15:44.31 | ``Erik | once linux got toys like 'oldconfig' and that curses config, it was pretty easy *shrug* :) |
| 15:44.49 | brlcad | it totally matter how obscure the hardware was, having to know which kernel modules were buggy as hell and needed to be avoided, which worked well with certain others, digging up details about your hardware just to know what to turn on/off, no help on what the options even went to without reading the sources, etc |
| 15:45.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:45.29 | brlcad | yeah, i'm talking pre-curses days, and before the CONFIG settings stuck |
| 15:45.32 | ``Erik | you had to have those horrible details of hardware just to boot dos, *shudder* config.sys and autoexec.bat and those |
| 15:45.34 | Maloeran | 1.2, that's 1995 or so? I think I was barely writing my first lines of code |
| 15:45.48 | brlcad | yeah, around 1995, fun times |
| 15:47.49 | ``Erik | ok, I've A) been ruined by scheme and B) am taking on too many new things at once O.o |
| 15:49.52 | ``Erik | anyone know how to make a function take a functor as an argument in CL? |
| 15:50.04 | ``Erik | meh, I do C daily |
| 15:50.24 | ``Erik | but sometimes I want to shift out of first, so'z I do other languages, too |
| 15:51.44 | ``Erik | (and the notion of running 'swank' on sbcl, then being able to connect and edit a running program interactively using 'slime' in emacs is... well, swank) |
| 15:52.46 | ``Erik | scheme and C both hold the same symbol space for functions and variables, CL does not :/ |
| 15:53.31 | Maloeran | Eww. |
| 15:53.42 | brlcad | ~cl |
| 15:53.43 | ibot | somebody said cl was common lisp |
| 15:54.17 | brlcad | I'd have to dig up some really old code |
| 15:54.30 | Maloeran | Mmhm, writing a root keyboard logger was easier than I thought |
| 15:54.44 | ``Erik | I'd hit the right page on google faster, I'd imagine |
| 15:54.47 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:55.05 | brlcad | probably |
| 15:55.10 | brlcad | that's why i'm not looking :) |
| 15:56.14 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 15:56.14 | ``Erik | hm, mebbe funcall is the knob I'm missing |
| 15:59.06 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 16:14.26 | ``Erik | ah, that's how. lame |
| 16:30.45 | *** join/#brlcad cad78 (n=d9a2e253@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 16:43.31 | yukonbob | 'morning, cadheads |
| 18:04.21 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 18:23.24 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) | |
| 18:23.47 | yukonbob | Hello, whirled. |
| 18:28.19 | poolio | Hello, yukonbob. |
| 18:36.05 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876549.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 18:42.59 | *** join/#brlcad mikola (n=mikola@rmdsouza.wecn.sabo.mtu.edu) | |
| 18:43.03 | mikola | Hello |
| 18:51.46 | MinuteElectron | Maloeran: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2007/10/11/bbc_news_knocked_offline_by_performance_changes.html |
| 19:32.12 | ``Erik | nice, (fib 40) took 20s, did a trivial memoization and (fib 1000) took 0.001s on the first 'pump' |
| 19:48.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/win/tclWinPort.h: Conditionally undef INCL_WINSOCK_API_TYPEDEFS before defining. |
| 19:50.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Mods for getting BLT to compile on Windows. |
| 19:50.34 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 19:53.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Mod for Windows to expose a few deprecated functions for tkimg. |
| 19:54.50 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-80.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:55.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (attach.c ged.c rtif.c): Minor mods for getting things compiled on Windows. |
| 19:57.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: dgo_cmd already declared in raytrace.h |
| 19:59.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fb-pix.c fb-png.c): Minor mods for Windows. |
| 20:03.05 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Added a function declaration for dgo_tree_cmd. |
| 20:04.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Updates for getting things to compile again. |
| 20:05.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: Minor mod for Windows. |
| 20:14.13 | ``Erik | hum, interesting |
| 20:14.31 | ``Erik | the C version with -O3 took 337.745 seconds |
| 20:14.47 | ``Erik | for fib(40) |
| 20:19.00 | ``Erik | (for a C version that can push out to fib(1000)... the version that spews wrong answers quickly was 2.5 seconds) |
| 20:41.00 | ``Erik | hum, java just barely beats out the gmp C |
| 20:50.01 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 21:34.19 | *** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p54875C44.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 23:12.00 | brlcad | gah, wrong way bob.. |
| 23:28.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:28.32 | ``Erik | hey, brlcad, what time is jasons thing tomorrow? |
| 23:28.42 | ``Erik | I got the date and location, but not the time O.o |
| 00:26.52 | *** part/#brlcad mikola (n=mikola@rmdsouza.wecn.sabo.mtu.edu) | |
| 00:42.02 | yukonbob | brlcad: "wrong way bob" --- directed at me? |
| 02:14.45 | brlcad | no, the "other bob" :) |
| 02:14.57 | brlcad | ``Erik: 3pm |
| 02:24.57 | ``Erik | thanks |
| 03:46.53 | starseeker | brlcad: on? |
| 03:48.07 | louipc | starseeker: were you doing volumeII ? |
| 03:48.44 | starseeker | louipc: Yes, I started on it |
| 03:49.01 | starseeker | louipc: I'll be continuing if life ever returns to something resembling sanity... |
| 03:49.35 | louipc | cool maybe I'll join in |
| 03:49.43 | starseeker | feel free :-) |
| 03:49.47 | louipc | there's so many things to be done |
| 03:50.04 | starseeker | Most of the markup is pretty rough - I'm anticipating doing a lot of reworking |
| 03:50.16 | louipc | I have to figure out which is the best itch to scratch |
| 03:50.18 | starseeker | I just wanted to have it "close" before staring the details |
| 03:51.04 | starseeker | Heh - know that feeling |
| 03:52.30 | louipc | well I'm just talking about in brlcad alone haha |
| 03:52.49 | louipc | command line creation of sketch primitives is one thing I'd like |
| 03:52.52 | starseeker | hehe - yeah there's plenty in there to keep any geek hypnotized |
| 03:54.54 | louipc | yeah that's something that would come later |
| 03:56.03 | louipc | not silly at all. I'd like that too :D |
| 03:57.33 | starseeker | "download BRL-CAD, simulate the Apollo 11 moon landing!" |
| 03:57.51 | louipc | heh heh |
| 03:58.00 | louipc | I have trouble viewing havoc |
| 03:58.09 | starseeker | or for more explosive fun, maybe someone could dig up the Russian N1 blueprints... |
| 03:58.55 | starseeker | louipc: really? what hardware are you running on? |
| 03:59.25 | Supaplex | he upgraded. his 8088 has a coprocessor now. |
| 03:59.33 | louipc | 866MHz PIII 384MB RAM |
| 03:59.41 | starseeker | Oh no wonder. |
| 04:00.05 | starseeker | I was stuck about there for a long time too, maddening... |
| 04:00.41 | louipc | it's not so bad with linux |
| 04:01.07 | starseeker | What desktop do you run? |
| 04:01.17 | louipc | openbox |
| 04:01.38 | starseeker | :-) |
| 04:02.53 | starseeker | It's weird, but fluxbox seems to represent some kind of local optimum for me... |
| 04:03.08 | starseeker | stays out of the way, does what I need, light on resources. |
| 04:03.46 | louipc | that's openbox pretty much |
| 04:04.02 | louipc | it's even simpler |
| 04:04.07 | starseeker | wow |
| 04:04.17 | louipc | I don't really like xml configs though |
| 04:05.32 | starseeker | "power" terminals seem so silly when you can just fire off xterms and dock them using the windowmanager itself. |
| 04:05.33 | louipc | so many apps have tabs now it's not really a big deal |
| 04:05.53 | louipc | I used tabs with multiple terms when I used fluxbox. now I just use screen |
| 04:06.24 | starseeker | True, but (for example) I can have firefox with docbook docs, emacs with volume II xml, and a terminal in the cvs archive all in a single tabbed group :-) |
| 04:07.55 | louipc | yeah |
| 04:09.31 | louipc | indeed |
| 04:10.04 | yukonbob | (reading from his screen'd irssi ;) |
| 04:15.24 | yukonbob | <sesame street>One of these things, isn't the same</sesame street> |
| 04:19.43 | Supaplex | ... One of these things is not like the other |
| 04:19.47 | Supaplex | iirc :) |
| 04:28.26 | louipc | starseeker: what's the path to the docbook files? |
| 04:29.47 | starseeker | doc/book/ |
| 04:30.47 | louipc | uh oh |
| 04:30.52 | louipc | dang cvs |
| 04:47.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_arbn.c: When an arbn is imported with a non-identity matrix, the import routine assumes unit normal vectors. The code now unitizes the normals prior to applying the matrix. This fixes bug #1800148 - arbn is incorrectly mirrored |
| 05:43.08 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 06:31.17 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
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| 12:11.35 | ``Erik | pussies |
| 12:14.35 | Maloeran | You know that bx includes /detach and scr-bx? :) |
| 12:26.52 | ``Erik | yes |
| 12:26.59 | ``Erik | that's the "miniscreen" |
| 12:27.59 | ``Erik | but if I accidently close the window or if there's a network hiccup that kills my ssh session, bx will quit... and right now, the screen on my fbsd server is running 8 windows and the one on my laptop has 3 |
| 12:28.54 | ``Erik | often, the one running on the machine I'm at has each window named for the machine I'm ssh'd into there |
| 12:29.23 | ``Erik | hardstatus alwayslastline "%{b}[ %{B}%H %{b}][ %{w}%?%-Lw%?%{b}(%{W}%n*%f %t%?(%u)%?%{b})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{b}][%{B} %d/%m %{W}%C%a %{b}]" |
| 12:29.40 | ``Erik | that in the .screenrc helps a bit, at the cost of one row per screen level |
| 12:34.27 | Maloeran | bx is supposed to have a variable for detach_on_sighup or something, not that it worked for me |
| 12:58.10 | ``Erik | given that I had other reasons to run screen on my server, I never bothered looking for something like that *shrug* |
| 12:58.39 | ``Erik | 'screen -d' is a big win, too |
| 12:58.49 | ``Erik | for when I forget to detach :D |
| 17:35.01 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 17:52.03 | *** join/#brlcad crotchetyGuy (n=brent@75-167-160-25.bois.qwest.net) | |
| 18:12.29 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-014-036.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 18:56.43 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177879294.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:57.43 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/8LvNR266.html <------ does this happen on your copy too? |
| 19:04.40 | IriX64 | i've got two other issues (this ones easy to fix) but bwish and mged both come up with tons of undefs to x functions, still trying to pin that down. |
| 19:06.49 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/IxISxf19.html <---- this ones easy to fix too. |
| 19:07.48 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 19:07.53 | butti | hello |
| 19:08.12 | butti | anybody home? |
| 19:09.01 | louipc | nope |
| 19:09.08 | IriX64 | thank God he didn't use bu_bomb anywhere outside rtsrv.c |
| 19:10.20 | butti | i will install brlcad on my maschine |
| 19:11.01 | butti | but maybe dont need to do that if the program dosnt import clean dxf from blender? what is your experience? |
| 19:12.06 | IriX64 | rttherm suffers same as bwish and mged is it my system? |
| 19:12.55 | butti | do I get any answare? |
| 19:13.53 | louipc | I think you can import dxf |
| 19:13.58 | louipc | or convert it |
| 19:14.10 | butti | did you try it with blender? |
| 19:14.15 | louipc | nope |
| 19:14.21 | louipc | send me a file |
| 19:14.27 | butti | I mean export file to dxf and tahn open that brl |
| 19:14.32 | butti | in brlcad |
| 19:14.37 | butti | ok |
| 19:14.45 | butti | trogh dcc? |
| 19:14.52 | louipc | dxf-g is the app you want in brlcad |
| 19:15.10 | louipc | I've never tried it though |
| 19:15.12 | louipc | butti: yep |
| 19:15.18 | IriX64 | that works i imported a shuttle pix with it |
| 19:15.27 | IriX64 | shuttle.dxf |
| 19:15.56 | IriX64 | that was on 7.8.4 tho |
| 19:16.34 | butti | dxf- g? /ddc send louipc /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm20.dxf |
| 19:16.38 | butti | shit :) |
| 19:16.58 | louipc | dxf-g is the program to convert from dxf to brlcad format |
| 19:17.18 | IriX64 | and it works :) |
| 19:17.30 | butti | ok where I get it? |
| 19:17.40 | IriX64 | its part of brlcad |
| 19:17.47 | IriX64 | look in brlcad/bin |
| 19:18.02 | butti | I mean in qcad the file is not usable |
| 19:18.06 | butti | ok |
| 19:18.22 | IriX64 | make install |
| 19:18.33 | butti | I still download |
| 19:18.41 | IriX64 | arghhh hate windows it doesn't know what i want to do :( |
| 19:18.44 | butti | 28% |
| 19:18.56 | butti | IriX64: :) |
| 19:19.12 | IriX64 | :) |
| 19:19.13 | louipc | hmm! I can't get this file! |
| 19:19.21 | butti | dont know why this server is so slow |
| 19:19.30 | butti | hmm |
| 19:19.40 | louipc | 15:15 DCC no file offered by butti |
| 19:19.49 | louipc | but it's in the list for some reason |
| 19:19.51 | louipc | lol |
| 19:19.55 | louipc | (stalled) |
| 19:20.22 | butti | why that? |
| 19:20.52 | IriX64 | why does my copy say 7.11.0 now :) |
| 19:20.57 | louipc | 15:17 DCC can't connect to 192.168.1.3 port 33160 |
| 19:21.16 | butti | on my side? |
| 19:21.37 | louipc | I've been able to send dcc before without problems |
| 19:21.40 | louipc | it may be |
| 19:21.59 | butti | i will uload thatto the web |
| 19:22.42 | louipc | good idea |
| 19:28.09 | butti | louipc: did you get my msg? |
| 19:31.38 | louipc | yea |
| 19:38.07 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 19:38.28 | butti | so I leave, thank you boyes |
| 19:38.35 | *** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 19:38.38 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.11.0.png < ---- a forced build but it sorta works |
| 19:59.23 | IriX64 | more to do, later all :) |
| 20:24.30 | *** part/#brlcad crotchetyGuy (n=brent@75-167-160-25.bois.qwest.net) | |
| 20:47.56 | Z80-Boy | woohoo! The arbn bug fixed! |
| 21:00.32 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 21:06.06 | *** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch) | |
| 21:07.01 | louipc | brlcad feels so european |
| 21:07.10 | louipc | mm units as default |
| 21:07.15 | louipc | 1st angle projection |
| 21:29.51 | yukonbob | louipc: if using mm and feeling uropean is too foreign for you, feel C |
| 21:30.02 | yukonbob | louipc: if using mm and feeling European is too foreign for you, feel Canadian instead... |
| 22:52.43 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177879294.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:53.26 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/GkbXsx62.html <----- do you know about this one? dg_obj uses static, raytrace.h use non static, which is right? |
| 22:54.47 | IriX64 | err wait |
| 22:57.35 | IriX64 | oh man what gives? |
| 23:00.24 | IriX64 | ill rename the one in dgo_obj.c to dgo_tree_cmd_dgo doesn't appear to be used anywhere else. |
| 23:08.58 | IriX64 | compiles |
| 23:17.07 | *** join/#brlcad cad06 (n=44e41422@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:18.59 | *** join/#brlcad cad06 (n=44e41422@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
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| 23:27.29 | *** join/#brlcad incalizondo (n=zondo@ip68-228-20-34.pn.at.cox.net) | |
| 23:28.08 | incalizondo | cant connect to fb server on port 5559 |
| 23:28.17 | incalizondo | anyone out there get that? |
| 23:29.07 | incalizondo | gnube here,,,,,mged wont render |
| 23:29.34 | IriX64 | exec fbserv -S 512 1 /dev/X & what happens? |
| 23:30.28 | incalizondo | [zondo@localhost ~]$ exec fbserv -S 512 1 /dev/X & |
| 23:30.29 | incalizondo | [1] 2042 |
| 23:30.29 | incalizondo | [zondo@localhost ~]$ X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) |
| 23:30.29 | incalizondo | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:30.29 | incalizondo | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:30.29 | incalizondo | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:30.31 | incalizondo | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:30.33 | incalizondo | that |
| 23:31.03 | IriX64 | man i meant from mged :) |
| 23:31.25 | incalizondo | hahahaha oh dam |
| 23:33.34 | IriX64 | if it comes up use 1 as the port number for any programs that need to know the port number |
| 23:33.57 | incalizondo | a box flashed up and was gone real fast ,,,, |
| 23:34.05 | incalizondo | 2049 |
| 23:34.17 | IriX64 | try /dev/ogl |
| 23:34.26 | incalizondo | is what was lewft in the mged shell |
| 23:34.47 | IriX64 | what version brlcad? |
| 23:36.26 | incalizondo | ok trying ogl created a large black area,,,,,really hard to see whats what |
| 23:36.56 | IriX64 | thats your frame buffer, now bring something up and use rt to render it |
| 23:38.52 | incalizondo | no dice |
| 23:39.59 | IriX64 | what did you type? |
| 23:40.14 | incalizondo | do i have to connect to a display manager when i start mged,,,,like when you create a new data.g? |
| 23:40.28 | incalizondo | i didnt type i used to gui command |
| 23:40.38 | incalizondo | the gui command |
| 23:40.48 | IriX64 | think connecting is required |
| 23:41.01 | IriX64 | try rtedge --help |
| 23:41.07 | IriX64 | or rt --help |
| 23:41.43 | IriX64 | and be aware i know less then most folks about brlcad operation. |
| 23:42.39 | incalizondo | someone screamed dinner was ready :d ty 4 de help |
| 23:42.44 | *** part/#brlcad incalizondo (n=zondo@ip68-228-20-34.pn.at.cox.net) | |
| 23:59.41 | ``Erik | eck, my feets O.o not used to standing so much, heh |
| 00:19.08 | starseeker | ``Erik: been partying? |
| 00:26.30 | yukonbob | starseeker: maybe somebody took his seat on the subway, and he had to stand all the way home... |
| 00:45.35 | ``Erik | went to a friends bday party, 4 hours standing around in a park :) was fun |
| 00:45.46 | ``Erik | but now I smell like brlcad's dog :( |
| 00:56.01 | IriX64 | you prefer smelling like a pussy :) |
| 00:57.34 | yukonbob | got any pix of your latest work, IriX64? |
| 00:59.16 | IriX64 | mc |
| 00:59.39 | yukonbob | ?mc |
| 00:59.58 | IriX64 | midnight commander my weapon of choice :) |
| 01:00.14 | yukonbob | ah -- |
| 01:00.54 | IriX64 | why am i getting undefined X references in libfb when compiling fbserv? |
| 01:01.47 | yukonbob | why are you _always_ compiling brlcad? :) -- I see screen shots from you of it running... how did that one get compiled? |
| 01:02.25 | IriX64 | thats 7.8.4.... trying to stay current |
| 01:05.37 | yukonbob | ah -- |
| 01:06.32 | yukonbob | if you want to add to the challenge (and help brlcad's robustness), try compiling against tcl/tk 8.4 (latest stable). I have, and so far so good, but the more, the merrier, they say. |
| 01:06.58 | starseeker | yukonbob: I thought it now required 8.5? |
| 01:06.58 | IriX64 | In file included from if_X.c:53: |
| 01:06.58 | IriX64 | ../../include/dm-X.h:42: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'mat_t' |
| 01:07.06 | yukonbob | starseeker: not strictly |
| 01:07.11 | IriX64 | if you help me here i will |
| 01:07.28 | yukonbob | it's compiled against 8.5, but is not using 8.5-specific features, as far as anybody knows. |
| 01:07.42 | starseeker | Erm. |
| 01:07.44 | IriX64 | i was told it was married to 8.5 or greater |
| 01:07.46 | yukonbob | I have run it against 8.4.15, 8.4.16 |
| 01:07.53 | starseeker | brlcad: Is that the case? |
| 01:08.18 | IriX64 | in configure they hardcoded 8.5 |
| 01:08.25 | yukonbob | starseeker, IriX64: I've asked brlcad about this, and run installation is (so far) proof it's not married to 8.5 ;) |
| 01:08.44 | IriX64 | ok :) |
| 01:08.58 | yukonbob | IriX64: there are some configure.ac modifications necessary, yes. This affects what ./configure looks for, and the resultant Makefile(s) |
| 01:09.08 | starseeker | Well, I guess the next question is whether we have exercised the part of brlcad that might notice the change... |
| 01:09.31 | yukonbob | starseeker: yes -- that's why I say the more the merrier ;) |
| 01:09.49 | yukonbob | I'm an mged user and various rt[x] tools... and so far so good. |
| 01:09.58 | starseeker | OK. |
| 01:11.47 | yukonbob | I also skipped compilation of bwish (wish, compiled w/ a couple cad-specific routines) in hopes of creating libtclcad as a loadable module to a stock wish/tclsh binary -- I've got a start on that, but that's it. That will give bwish functionality w/o a dedicated binary (and allow things like rtwizard, etc. to run for me...) |
| 01:12.03 | IriX64 | starseeker i'm just a hobbiest, wadda I know :) |
| 01:12.40 | starseeker | yukonbob: Did you run the make test benchmark as well? I don't now how comprehensive it is but it's a start |
| 01:13.16 | IriX64 | thought somewhere theres a make test thingy too |
| 01:13.44 | yukonbob | starseeker: no, I haven't... |
| 01:14.19 | starseeker | That might be useful ;-) |
| 01:15.28 | yukonbob | as far as my personal use goes, it's better than 8.5, though, since I never got 8.5 running how I wanted; also nice to be able to depend on a stable version of tcl/tk rather than beta software... |
| 01:17.00 | starseeker | Yes, the gentoo guys tend to agree... |
| 01:17.34 | starseeker | Hmm... http://check.sourceforge.net/ looks kinda interesting. Requires POSIX... |
| 01:21.10 | starseeker | yukonbob: Sorry about not pushing harder on the docbook conversion - I'm hoping things will get better after next week. |
| 01:34.02 | yukonbob | starseeker: _no_ problems what-so-ever -- you're not beholden to me, btw, either ;) -- I think I saw you mentioning emacs sometime earlier -- did you try that out as a docbook environ? Try those scripts I sent? |
| 02:05.43 | starseeker | yukonbob: I am using emacs +nXML - very nice. |
| 02:06.08 | starseeker | yukonbob: I haven't yet tried incremental pdf generation, so I haven't tried your scripts - when I do I'll fish them out :-) |
| 02:12.51 | starseeker | oops |
| 02:33.42 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 02:34.08 | yukonbob | Hello, whirled. |
| 03:16.19 | starseeker | yukonbob returns :-) |
| 03:16.35 | poolio | :o brl-cad won't compile |
| 03:16.46 | starseeker | uh oh - what platform/version? |
| 03:18.14 | starseeker | erk |
| 03:25.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h): removed wdb_tree_cmd(), added to dg_obj.c as dgo_tree_cmd() |
| 03:28.16 | brlcad | starseeker: it should work with either -- codewise, it might need minor patches to work with 8.4 again but they should be really minor |
| 03:28.45 | brlcad | most of the reasons for 8.5 are in the aquatk codebase and build system |
| 03:52.17 | poolio | brlcad: is this your recent doing? |
| 03:52.31 | poolio | dg_obj.c:4917: error: conflicting types for 'dgo_tree_cmd' |
| 03:52.31 | poolio | ../../include/raytrace.h:6364: error: previous declaration of 'dgo_tree_cmd' was here |
| 03:53.07 | brlcad | yup |
| 03:53.11 | brlcad | just fixed it in that commit |
| 03:53.23 | brlcad | well, not entirely my doing |
| 03:53.59 | poolio | mmk :) re-updating. |
| 03:53.59 | brlcad | i changed the func, bob changed the decl (to match my change, but got it wrong) |
| 03:54.34 | poolio | hehe, oops :) |
| 03:54.51 | brlcad | that was all just earlier today |
| 03:55.43 | poolio | brlcad: so, just out of curiousity and cause I'm just remembering, there was a memory leak bug I found awhile back where this free'ing was commented out everywhere and we couldn't find a place for it...do you remember if that got fixed? |
| 03:55.48 | poolio | (sorry it's so vague, it's been awhile) |
| 03:57.13 | brlcad | it has definitely not been changed |
| 03:57.35 | brlcad | you did make a free commit that's still in place and seems to be fine |
| 03:58.04 | poolio | k, I think I might start coding again. I'm really missing programming, and would like to try to see the project through...get some results |
| 03:58.06 | brlcad | but the others that are uncommented are problematic .. other bits of code need to be refactored for it to free cleanly prior to exit |
| 03:59.55 | poolio | errr if I could just get it to build on my box |
| 04:00.06 | poolio | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' |
| 04:00.08 | poolio | and a few more |
| 04:00.23 | poolio | that's while trying to link bwish it looks like |
| 04:04.59 | louipc | yukonbob: in canada we use imperial for mechanical stuff |
| 04:05.42 | brlcad | poolio: i've yet to be able to reproduce that error myself, but it's undoubtedly related to X11 library detection in configure |
| 04:05.59 | brlcad | it's missing the Xi library |
| 04:06.02 | poolio | brlcad: alright, I'll dig around. |
| 04:06.07 | brlcad | so missing -lXi from the LIBS line |
| 04:06.17 | brlcad | which you can add directly to make or to the configure line |
| 04:06.26 | brlcad | but the real question is why is configure failing to find it |
| 04:07.13 | yukonbob | louipc: hrmm... /me knew for construction, but figured for more 'technical' things we'd be using Metric... |
| 04:07.39 | poolio | configure:27636: checking for XGetExtensionVersion in -lXi |
| 04:07.40 | poolio | configure:27671: gcc -o conftest -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lXi -lX11 -lX11 -lXext >&5 |
| 04:07.43 | poolio | /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXi |
| 04:07.51 | brlcad | yeah, that's "wrong" |
| 04:07.57 | brlcad | or you really are missing libXi |
| 04:07.58 | poolio | hmm |
| 04:08.03 | poolio | Yes that's quite possible. |
| 04:08.33 | brlcad | why you'd suddenly now need it is a bit bizarre, though -- the interface code certainly hasn't changed that I can think of that were now using Xi symbols |
| 04:08.43 | brlcad | look in the config.log |
| 04:08.47 | brlcad | see why it failed |
| 04:09.53 | poolio | well it's a different system then the one I was using over the summer |
| 04:10.02 | poolio | The why it failed in config.log was just the line I pasted earlier |
| 04:12.02 | brlcad | oh |
| 04:12.09 | brlcad | it's missing /usr/X11R6/lib |
| 04:12.26 | brlcad | do you have /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.* ? |
| 04:12.48 | poolio | ...nope |
| 04:12.57 | brlcad | locate libXi |
| 04:13.17 | poolio | it's searching ... |
| 04:13.25 | poolio | /usr/lib |
| 04:13.31 | brlcad | huh |
| 04:13.34 | poolio | symlink or change the search path? |
| 04:13.47 | brlcad | that's bizzare place to have it |
| 04:13.47 | brlcad | what OS is it? |
| 04:13.50 | poolio | Debian |
| 04:14.03 | brlcad | are they trying to fade out /usr/X11R6 now? |
| 04:14.26 | poolio | Haven't the slightest idea, but there's no libs in it anymore |
| 04:14.33 | brlcad | interesting |
| 04:14.38 | brlcad | asinine, but interesting |
| 04:14.58 | brlcad | either way, /usr/lib is a default search dir iirc, but you can try adding -L/usr/lib to the LDFLAGS |
| 04:15.06 | poolio | Yeah /usr/X11R6 is 'empty.' Just a symlink from /usr/X11R6/bin -> /usr/bin |
| 04:34.17 | *** join/#brlcad zap (n=zap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 04:34.22 | *** part/#brlcad zap (n=zap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) | |
| 05:32.30 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 05:32.33 | butti | hello |
| 05:32.37 | butti | morgen |
| 05:43.26 | *** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 06:06.21 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 06:06.38 | butti | I have a quastion |
| 06:06.55 | butti | is the @brlcad a bot? |
| 06:08.02 | Maloeran | He's the main BRL-CAD developper, but he might also just be an artificial intelligence running on the ARL clusters |
| 06:09.41 | butti | It would be fantastic if he is AI |
| 06:10.13 | butti | I willl believe that he is |
| 06:10.20 | butti | it |
| 06:18.31 | butti | instalation from .deb failed |
| 06:18.40 | butti | try from source |
| 06:23.09 | butti | mainly I am intrested if this software export dynamic VRML |
| 06:25.54 | Maloeran | There's a .g to vrml exporter though I couldn't say if it's "dynamic" or not |
| 06:27.15 | butti | I will tell you soon , the instalation takes long time |
| 06:29.43 | butti | I get slowly impression that on linux OS is not many professional designeres which are using VRML , and not much developers intrested on this issue |
| 06:30.32 | butti | this very hard for me |
| 06:35.26 | butti | I cant install it :( sudo make whit error 1 |
| 06:44.14 | butti | do you know some another # for brl, I dnt want occupate and make you bored about my installation troubles |
| 06:54.05 | butti | installation done :) |
| 07:19.34 | butti | excuseme last time more |
| 07:19.40 | butti | There is no visible way to start the app, and no instructions. |
| 07:29.59 | poolio | you probably want mged :) |
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| 10:43.15 | Supaplex | poolio: sleep for me to |
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| 16:42.38 | *** join/#brlcad butti_ (n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 16:42.47 | butti_ | hello again |
| 16:47.33 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874A20.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:52.58 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 16:53.37 | butti | anybidy home on linux? |
| 16:54.16 | *** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 16:55.35 | louipc | yep |
| 17:36.38 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178064032.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 17:36.46 | butti | anybody home? |
| 17:37.09 | louipc | yep |
| 17:37.29 | butti | hello |
| 17:37.47 | louipc | what's up |
| 17:38.40 | butti | louipc: I would like to give you some .dxf file to control it, becouse some reason dosnt let me start brlcad after succesful installation |
| 17:39.16 | butti | and I must see if I need to fight with brlcad for this file |
| 17:40.16 | butti | should look like this:http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/12715 |
| 17:40.58 | louipc | cool |
| 17:41.02 | butti | http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=12716 |
| 17:42.00 | butti | sorry not this link |
| 17:42.38 | butti | http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=12689 |
| 17:42.50 | butti | but it looks like this above after export |
| 17:43.53 | louipc | that's what it looks like in brlcad? |
| 17:44.01 | butti | so if you dont mind, take my file to test it in brlcad |
| 17:44.20 | butti | no , this looks this way in qcad |
| 17:44.27 | louipc | oh |
| 17:44.36 | louipc | because qcad doesn't do 3D I think |
| 17:45.04 | butti | you mean thats why...sure this could be an explaining |
| 17:45.28 | louipc | I'd expect it'd work in brlcad |
| 17:45.29 | butti | my system cant fint mged or rt to start brlcad |
| 17:45.59 | butti | also any corresponding file to find: brlcad |
| 17:46.22 | butti | and I m really angry about that |
| 17:47.12 | louipc | brlcad is installed in /usr/brlcad by default so you need to add the corresponding directories to PATH, MANPATH, /etc/ld.so.cache etc |
| 17:47.23 | louipc | what distro are you using? |
| 17:47.24 | butti | sorry for my english, I never learn it, im very sorry |
| 17:47.30 | butti | feisty |
| 17:47.34 | louipc | no prob |
| 17:47.52 | butti | I have installed from source |
| 17:47.58 | louipc | hmm |
| 17:48.19 | louipc | no ubuntu pkgs eh? |
| 17:48.19 | butti | I saw in the web some guy has also this problem but no solution |
| 17:48.43 | butti | no , I compiled the packedge |
| 17:49.28 | louipc | well the first thing you can do is make sure all your paths are set correctly |
| 17:49.35 | butti | and after few times ...finally I've got clean installation |
| 17:49.57 | butti | how I can do that? |
| 17:51.22 | louipc | export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin; |
| 17:51.33 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-75-54.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:51.35 | louipc | similarly with MANPATH |
| 17:51.59 | louipc | add the lib directory to /etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig |
| 17:52.36 | louipc | or you can use LD_LIBRARY_PATH temporarily |
| 17:56.59 | butti | /etc/ld.so.conf this is not a directory |
| 17:57.30 | butti | shoud I put there the path to ldconfig? |
| 17:57.49 | louipc | ld.so.conf is a file which you specify paths to libs |
| 17:58.09 | louipc | then you run ldconfig to update ld.so.cache |
| 17:58.58 | butti | in this case i should put there this path there? /sbin/ldconfig? |
| 17:59.13 | butti | do I understand it well? |
| 17:59.25 | louipc | you put the path in ld.so.conf |
| 17:59.44 | louipc | ldconfig will read ld.so.conf by default |
| 18:01.56 | butti | sorry I dont want to borring you but it would be very helpfull If you investigate one monet more for me. I have done it now and runed ldconfig |
| 18:02.14 | butti | what next? |
| 18:02.24 | louipc | did you set the paths? |
| 18:03.01 | butti | I put the path of ldconf to ld.so.conf |
| 18:03.19 | louipc | you also need to set PATH and MANPATH |
| 18:04.07 | louipc | you should probably do that in a script that runs when you start a new shell |
| 18:04.26 | louipc | that varies by distro (I don't know how ubuntu works) |
| 18:05.01 | butti | we will try...just tell me the code...Im not used to make a lot of stuff like that |
| 18:06.23 | louipc | well you'd usually have a directory in /etc/ that has a bunch of scripts that add paths to your shell environment |
| 18:06.57 | louipc | you'll have to find out how that's done in your distro |
| 18:07.11 | butti | what kind of scripts? |
| 18:07.23 | butti | sure it is in /etc |
| 18:07.25 | louipc | just to set variables |
| 18:08.07 | louipc | you might want to look into using a debian pkg as well |
| 18:08.30 | butti | of brl? |
| 18:08.35 | louipc | but I'm not sure what compatibility between debian and ubuntu is like |
| 18:08.46 | louipc | I don't use either distro |
| 18:08.57 | butti | what do you use? |
| 18:09.09 | louipc | butti: ask someone who is experienced in your distro on how to properly do these things |
| 18:09.12 | louipc | ;) |
| 18:09.17 | louipc | I use archlinux |
| 18:09.22 | butti | debian = ubuntu ist almost the same |
| 18:14.16 | butti | do you mean seting path like this f.e :set path=($HOME/bin /usr/sfw/bin /opt/sfw/bin /usr/local/bin /usr/ccs/bin \? |
| 18:14.26 | louipc | yes |
| 18:15.28 | butti | the problem still is that i dont know what paths brlcad needs |
| 18:15.45 | butti | or where theay are |
| 18:15.58 | louipc | default installation path is /usr/brlcad |
| 18:17.11 | butti | so this path I will set in those ld.so* for my home dir, do I understand that? |
| 18:19.16 | butti | set path=($HOME/bin /usr/brlcad? |
| 18:19.22 | louipc | well make sure it's there |
| 18:19.29 | butti | is it there |
| 18:19.31 | louipc | then you have to point to the bin dir |
| 18:19.36 | louipc | and the lib dir |
| 18:19.37 | louipc | etc |
| 18:19.41 | louipc | /usr/brlcad/bin |
| 18:19.45 | butti | ok |
| 18:21.50 | butti | probably all this: bin include lib man share |
| 18:21.55 | butti | ? |
| 18:22.06 | louipc | no you just need bin for PATH |
| 18:22.12 | louipc | lib for ld.so.conf |
| 18:22.16 | louipc | man for MANPATH |
| 18:36.41 | butti | excuseme, this is what I changed now: |
| 18:36.43 | butti | http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/12767 |
| 18:38.53 | louipc | hmm I don't think you want to do that |
| 18:39.20 | louipc | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:39.25 | louipc | that is what you want |
| 18:40.38 | louipc | and LD_LIBRARY_PATH is just for temporarily setting the library path |
| 18:40.39 | butti | you mean the syntax is wrong |
| 18:40.57 | louipc | butti: yes and you should really find out how these things are done in your distro |
| 18:41.09 | louipc | ask some ubuntu people that know :D |
| 18:41.24 | butti | yes Im tryind to find out wright now |
| 18:41.36 | butti | yes |
| 18:45.18 | poolio | Is Tcl require 8.5a6 hardcoded? |
| 18:47.48 | louipc | yeah I heard that there are changes in Tcl that mean it isn't backward compatible |
| 18:49.07 | poolio | ``Erik: bwahaha. I like your commit comment on a shitty line of code I had: "silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope" |
| 19:13.27 | butti | astro76: /msg louipc ps take atantion for me again |
| 19:13.43 | butti | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:13.49 | butti | shit |
| 19:20.13 | butti | louipc: could I talk to you again? |
| 19:26.04 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@77-56-75-54.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:27.24 | butti | clock_: hello |
| 19:32.44 | clock_ | hi |
| 19:33.16 | butti | clock I me here to get some help, do you have a time for me? |
| 19:57.38 | brlcad | ciao butti |
| 19:59.30 | brlcad | butti: what's your question(s)? |
| 20:00.48 | butti | brlcad: I have incredable compllications with makin brlcad runing on feisty...and I dont know if my installation was correct becouse I didnt follow instuction very exactly....it something about setin PATHS |
| 20:00.49 | brlcad | poolio: tcl 8.5+ is listed in configure as a minimum as code modifications were needed to update from 8.4 to 8.5 -- if someone can confirm that it works with 8.4 without modification by simply adding the two extra lines to configure.ac, then it can be relaxed |
| 20:01.18 | butti | i made only ./configure make make install make benchmark and make clean ...thats all |
| 20:01.20 | brlcad | you should know how to set/change your PATH regardless of BRL-CAD .. that's pretty fundamental to using *nix :) |
| 20:01.31 | brlcad | did make && make install work? |
| 20:01.37 | butti | and thats about that |
| 20:01.45 | brlcad | i.e. did they complete successfully? |
| 20:01.48 | butti | yes.no errors at all |
| 20:01.59 | brlcad | then run "/usr/brlcad/bin/rt" |
| 20:02.05 | brlcad | does it give you an error or show a version |
| 20:02.40 | poolio | brlcad: do I really need 8.5a6? /usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.5/init.tcl: version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5b1, need exactly 8.5a6 |
| 20:03.02 | butti | brlcad: may I put the output here? |
| 20:03.23 | butti | Compile-time debug symbols are available |
| 20:03.23 | butti | Running on fawn |
| 20:03.23 | butti | /usr/brlcad/bin/rt: MGED database not specified |
| 20:03.23 | butti | Usage: rt [options] model.g objects... |
| 20:03.23 | butti | Options: -s # Square grid size in pixels (default 512) -w # -n # Grid size width and height in pixels -V # View (pixel) aspect ratio (width/height) -a # Azimuth in deg -e # Elevation in deg -M Read matrix+cmds on stdin -N # NMG debug flags -o model.pix Output file, .pix format (default=fb) -x # librt debug flags |
| 20:03.39 | butti | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.41 | brlcad | poolio: ah, that's something stupid in the tcl init funcs -- tcl's init script version check is braindead |
| 20:04.17 | brlcad | butti: don't need to paste, just answer -- I know what the output is supposed to look like ;) |
| 20:04.38 | brlcad | okay, so it's installed and at least rt runs |
| 20:04.39 | butti | brlcad: sure , how I could forget it? :) |
| 20:05.21 | butti | brlcad: I wouldnt make you nervous if i didnt needs for my work |
| 20:05.37 | brlcad | you can and should set your PATH to include /usr/brlcad/bin but it's not necessary -- just prefix the commands with "/usr/brlcad/bin/" |
| 20:06.06 | brlcad | i happen to need it for my work too, so sounds good ;) |
| 20:06.31 | butti | brlcad: this is what i would like to do for me, I give you syntax for my system |
| 20:06.58 | butti | becouse Im not the persone which is hucking in the system :) |
| 20:07.03 | brlcad | so there are lots of commands in brl-cad, depends what you're trying to do .. I see in the log that you have a dxf .. did you already run dxf-g ? |
| 20:07.38 | butti | no i didnt |
| 20:07.56 | butti | this command isnt known |
| 20:08.09 | brlcad | because you never set your PATH |
| 20:08.26 | butti | PATH="${PATH}:/some/path:/adifferent/path" |
| 20:08.26 | brlcad | i'm not going to teach you how to set your PATH today, just run /usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g |
| 20:08.46 | butti | I never set my Path, i need to do that onece and I get it |
| 20:08.57 | brlcad | forget the path for now |
| 20:09.06 | brlcad | just run /usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g |
| 20:09.11 | poolio | brlcad: I changed the require line in init.tcl but It's stail failing with a version conflict... |
| 20:09.46 | brlcad | poolio: it's in a couple places iirc |
| 20:09.52 | brlcad | one is compiled into the library |
| 20:10.02 | poolio | arghh. |
| 20:10.48 | brlcad | so if you have a 8.4 init.tcl trying to load a 8.5 libtcl, it'll choke; if you have a 8.5 init.tcl set to allow 8.4+, it'll still choke |
| 20:10.56 | brlcad | it can be made to work |
| 20:11.04 | brlcad | involves chicken heads, and beads |
| 20:11.09 | butti | brlcad: Saving stack trace to unknown-17666-bomb.log |
| 20:11.37 | poolio | brlcad: they're both 8.5, just different ones |
| 20:11.38 | brlcad | butti: that's fine |
| 20:11.49 | brlcad | butti: I presume it showed you usage |
| 20:11.54 | butti | brlcad: should i read the log? |
| 20:12.05 | brlcad | no |
| 20:12.34 | butti | I need probably some gui if its prossible :) |
| 20:12.50 | poolio | butti: probably mged... |
| 20:13.54 | brlcad | butti: focus .. first task is running dxf-g to convert to brl-cad format |
| 20:14.32 | butti | brlcad: ok |
| 20:15.12 | brlcad | follow the usage and see if you can get the .g file |
| 20:15.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: don't bomb on usage. bu_bomb is now only abnormal exit conditions. |
| 20:15.46 | brlcad | gah, now that I've stopped playing that game I was playing for 6 hours.. i suddenly realize just how freaking hungry I apparently am |
| 20:16.17 | butti | .g file it is a standart format for brlcad? |
| 20:23.42 | butti | there is any *.g file |
| 20:24.24 | brlcad | there are several .g examples installed |
| 20:24.43 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/ |
| 20:25.10 | brlcad | .g == BRL-CAD "g"oemetry file format |
| 20:25.20 | brlcad | heh, 'g'eometry |
| 20:25.29 | butti | :) |
| 20:25.32 | butti | ok I see |
| 20:26.22 | brlcad | did you run dxf-g yet? |
| 20:26.51 | brlcad | and what is your goal? what are you trying to do? |
| 20:27.11 | brlcad | if you intend to be modelling, forget dxf-g -- you should be going through the tutorials that are available on the website first |
| 20:27.15 | butti | but I dontt see my file |
| 20:27.22 | brlcad | what file? |
| 20:27.41 | brlcad | i can't see it for you |
| 20:27.50 | butti | ok , I think I made something not necessery |
| 20:28.07 | brlcad | you're not giving me enough information to help you |
| 20:28.07 | butti | I made dxf on my dxf file |
| 20:28.16 | butti | dxf-g |
| 20:28.32 | butti | and then I was looking for myfile.g |
| 20:28.49 | brlcad | you mean, you made a .g on your .dxf file? |
| 20:28.58 | butti | yes |
| 20:29.45 | butti | like /usr/brlcad/*/dxf-g ond /my/file.. |
| 20:30.15 | brlcad | show me your exact line |
| 20:30.37 | butti | /usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/TEST1.dxf |
| 20:30.49 | brlcad | is that all? |
| 20:30.55 | butti | yes |
| 20:31.01 | brlcad | then you didn't read the usage :) |
| 20:31.07 | brlcad | dxf-g [-c] [-d] [-v] [-t tolerance] [-s scale_factor] input_dxf_file output_file.g |
| 20:31.11 | butti | i didnt mea culpa |
| 20:31.16 | brlcad | input .. AND .. output |
| 20:31.29 | butti | ok, so stupid |
| 20:32.22 | butti | ok something happend |
| 20:33.08 | butti | I have the file |
| 20:36.12 | butti | Ive got it! |
| 20:36.17 | butti | thank you so much |
| 20:39.02 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-023-060.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 20:40.30 | butti | brlcad: so still some trouble to see anything on screen but I think I must read now the tuts, or? |
| 20:41.32 | butti | Im wondering that this software is 20 years old |
| 20:41.34 | brlcad | that certainly shouldn't hurt |
| 20:41.59 | brlcad | it's a powerful package, but not easy to learn |
| 20:42.51 | brlcad | there isn't decent a shaded mode in mged, so you only get wireframe -- and for a model like a dxf that is going to import as a bunch of polygons, that's going to be a bit painful |
| 20:43.07 | brlcad | you'll need/want to raytrace it to see what it really looks like |
| 20:43.16 | butti | brlcad: it will be not hard...but takes time which I dont have realy...in 10 dayes <i must give my project away |
| 20:43.23 | brlcad | run 'rt' in mged to see what it looks like |
| 20:43.44 | butti | I nee only wireframes and measure that |
| 20:44.15 | butti | so that the people working on autocad can read it and counstuct the project |
| 20:44.20 | brlcad | mged only shows wireframe -- you have to ray-trace it to see shaded |
| 20:44.31 | butti | I dont need raytrace |
| 20:44.40 | butti | just wires |
| 20:44.55 | brlcad | then rtedge |
| 20:45.01 | butti | ok |
| 20:45.12 | brlcad | wireframe in mged is not the same as wire/sketch/diagram in autocad |
| 20:45.17 | *** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-013-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 20:45.24 | butti | inredable hacklike app |
| 20:46.22 | brlcad | mged's interface is painful |
| 20:46.32 | brlcad | it's eventually going away |
| 20:46.55 | butti | I get some errors |
| 20:46.55 | brlcad | but not for a long time, so long as the experts still need/use it and until there's a fully operational alternative |
| 20:47.09 | brlcad | "you're not giving me enough information to help you" |
| 20:47.14 | butti | brlcad: you are incradable |
| 20:47.25 | brlcad | hm? |
| 20:48.19 | Maloeran | Parse error on incradable |
| 20:48.44 | butti | sudo /usr/brlcad/bin/rt /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g |
| 20:48.56 | brlcad | you have to specify the object |
| 20:49.00 | butti | Compile-time debug symbols are available |
| 20:49.00 | butti | Running on fawn |
| 20:49.00 | butti | /usr/brlcad/bin/rt: no objects specified -- raytrace aborted |
| 20:49.08 | brlcad | no objects specified |
| 20:49.31 | brlcad | .g files are multigeometry, can contain many top-level models |
| 20:49.54 | brlcad | run this: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g tops |
| 20:50.01 | brlcad | what does it report? |
| 20:50.04 | butti | you mean I shloud put each object seperatly? |
| 20:50.24 | brlcad | no |
| 20:50.41 | brlcad | i mean a .g file isn't like a blender file that has "one" model .. it can have many |
| 20:50.46 | butti | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:51.01 | brlcad | huh? |
| 20:51.09 | brlcad | you ran "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g tops" and it said command not found?? |
| 20:52.17 | *** join/#brlcad elite01__ (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-071-085.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 20:52.38 | butti | BRL-CAD Release 7.10.2 Geometry Editor (MGED) Thu Aug 16 16:30:38 EDT 2007, Compilation 1 morrison@sushi.local:/usr/brlcad |
| 20:52.41 | butti | attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]? |
| 20:52.58 | butti | I made mistake sorry |
| 20:53.33 | butti | brlcad: do hack on this prog 20 years? |
| 20:53.45 | butti | you |
| 20:53.47 | brlcad | you've not even seen 1% of it |
| 20:54.08 | brlcad | no, I've only been involved for a little less than half that time |
| 20:54.11 | butti | jessus, i m shaking from fear |
| 20:54.48 | butti | brlcad: but Im learning fast, just not long time on linux |
| 20:55.29 | butti | I have learnd blender very quick *proud* |
| 20:55.49 | brlcad | that's quite an acheivement :) |
| 20:56.15 | brlcad | brl-cad's at least as hard to learn, if not harder ;) |
| 20:56.27 | poolio | brlcad: sushi? |
| 20:56.28 | brlcad | but once you learn it, the modelers are actually quite proficient |
| 20:56.34 | brlcad | poolio: yes please? |
| 20:56.54 | brlcad | you trying to make me hungry? :) |
| 20:57.03 | butti | brlcad: im sure about that but I need that, no way to running away from that |
| 20:57.21 | brlcad | butti: so you ran 'tops'? |
| 20:57.32 | brlcad | it should have given you an object name |
| 20:57.36 | butti | are you guyes from GMT1 zone? |
| 20:57.57 | butti | brlcad: yes I do |
| 20:58.28 | brlcad | type this in mged: rt -F/dev/Xl object_name |
| 20:58.45 | brlcad | (while looking at wireframe) |
| 20:59.47 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-014-209.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 21:00.04 | brlcad | butti: GMT-4/5 |
| 21:00.17 | butti | uh |
| 21:00.23 | brlcad | poolio: what was the sushi? :) |
| 21:00.24 | butti | so feilure |
| 21:00.31 | butti | brlcad: /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -M -F/dev/Xl |
| 21:00.31 | butti | opendb vm21.dxf; |
| 21:00.31 | butti | tree /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g; |
| 21:00.31 | butti | rt: rt_dirbuild(vm21.dxf) failure |
| 21:00.33 | butti | Raytrace complete. |
| 21:00.36 | poolio | brlcad: one of your box's hostnames? |
| 21:00.42 | brlcad | oooh |
| 21:00.55 | brlcad | heh, yeah |
| 21:01.05 | butti | hi guyes you should go est something |
| 21:01.09 | poolio | brlcad: speaking of which... this sushi is quite tasty. |
| 21:01.12 | butti | eat |
| 21:01.50 | brlcad | butti: _inside_ mged |
| 21:01.59 | brlcad | "rt -F/dev/Xl object_name" |
| 21:02.13 | brlcad | outside of mged, it's a little different |
| 21:02.26 | brlcad | you don't need the path inside mged |
| 21:03.02 | butti | brlcad: I think I did it |
| 21:03.08 | butti | inside of mged |
| 21:03.28 | butti | brlcad: mged> /rt -F/dev/Xl vm21.dxf |
| 21:03.46 | butti | should i put all path? |
| 21:03.47 | brlcad | vm21.dxf is not an object name |
| 21:03.54 | brlcad | that's a file name |
| 21:04.09 | brlcad | and there shouldn't be a / in front of the rt |
| 21:04.35 | brlcad | i really did mean exactly "rt -F/dev/Xl object_name" .. just that you replace object_name with the name of a top-level object |
| 21:04.45 | brlcad | i.e. run "tops" to see your top-level objects |
| 21:05.12 | butti | ok |
| 21:05.29 | brlcad | poolio: then go saleing on a boat afterwards with your x61t to get more sushi? |
| 21:06.39 | poolio | eh. I'm waiting it out til oct. 26th. Problem is the x61t sale is over then...Also my damn current laptop works fine when it turns on...the issue is it doesnt always turn on |
| 21:07.19 | brlcad | fun |
| 21:11.01 | butti | brlcad: I ve got some command window open |
| 21:12.36 | butti | brlcad: and the main window has got a star-line wires |
| 21:16.44 | brlcad | which is why I'm trying really hard to get you to run "rt -F/dev/Xl object_name" |
| 21:17.05 | brlcad | tell me what tops says |
| 21:19.18 | butti | nothing |
| 21:19.32 | butti | I put it in The mged console |
| 21:19.42 | butti | nothing happend |
| 21:19.43 | brlcad | did you open vm21.g in mged yet? |
| 21:19.55 | butti | yes |
| 21:19.58 | butti | I did |
| 21:20.13 | butti | there was nothing to see just little point |
| 21:20.31 | brlcad | it doesn't show you anything by default....because it's multi-geometry |
| 21:20.49 | butti | I accept |
| 21:21.02 | starseeker | ? |
| 21:21.08 | brlcad | can you post the .g somewhere? |
| 21:21.08 | butti | :) |
| 21:21.43 | butti | I have no ftp entry anwhere |
| 21:21.53 | brlcad | ftp.brlcad.org |
| 21:21.57 | butti | I will try throug some service, 1 sec |
| 21:22.54 | brlcad | incoming dir |
| 21:23.52 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 21:28.39 | butti | cant connect Iwill do something else |
| 21:59.30 | butti | did you eat something guyes? |
| 21:59.59 | louipc | some hotdogs |
| 22:00.10 | butti | finally i upload it to your ftp brlcad |
| 22:01.07 | butti | louipc: whit some hackmeet and onion? |
| 22:01.41 | louipc | with some ketchup |
| 22:01.45 | louipc | and bread |
| 22:03.15 | butti | my cats tell me, jumping on my keyboard: stop to watch this console |
| 22:05.23 | butti | brlcad: check incoming for .dxf after you eat some hotdog. |
| 22:06.34 | louipc | lol |
| 22:11.50 | butti | Im sitting already 18 h for the display |
| 22:12.03 | louipc | hm? |
| 22:12.26 | butti | um |
| 22:12.31 | butti | uhm |
| 22:14.17 | butti | louipc: are you developer of this comic app? or just a fanatic? |
| 22:14.28 | louipc | fanatic |
| 22:14.55 | louipc | I'm thinking about doing some development though |
| 22:15.17 | butti | which language it is writen? |
| 22:15.48 | louipc | C, Tcl, some C++ |
| 22:16.09 | butti | do you need brl for your work? |
| 22:17.31 | ``Erik | comic app? |
| 22:18.03 | louipc | butti: I need something like brlcad, but brlcad isn't quite up to spec for my work (yet?) |
| 22:19.08 | butti | I see, you are lost fanatic :) |
| 22:20.12 | butti | do you work in some design or architecture stuff? or maschines constucting? |
| 22:20.18 | louipc | indeed it's quit comical |
| 22:20.20 | louipc | machines |
| 22:22.56 | butti | do you know any women working with brl? |
| 22:24.34 | louipc | I've heard complaints about a 'wendy' haha maybe she does |
| 22:27.10 | ``Erik | why would it matter? |
| 22:27.17 | ``Erik | and, um, BRL doesn't exist anymore |
| 22:27.29 | ``Erik | it was twisted into ARL |
| 22:27.31 | ``Erik | a long time ago |
| 22:27.35 | poolio | alloo ``Erik |
| 22:27.42 | butti | :) ..there is no other way to make 3d drawings for free..Im very thankfull to find this comic app.. but I think the next project I will first draw in qcad and then export to blender. The problem with this order is, that you cant change anything if you get some idea to put a new chair into |
| 22:27.44 | ``Erik | '92 |
| 22:27.49 | ``Erik | oi, hoolio |
| 22:28.05 | louipc | shouldn't it be called arlcad now then? |
| 22:28.20 | ``Erik | no, shut up |
| 22:28.34 | ``Erik | if it were ARL-CAD, we'd have to make it suck goat balls |
| 22:28.42 | ``Erik | we still want it to be useful and worth something |
| 22:28.43 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:28.44 | ``Erik | *duck* |
| 22:28.57 | louipc | ah |
| 22:29.19 | poolio | uh oh. |
| 22:29.27 | louipc | wendy's coming |
| 22:30.08 | poolio | ``Erik: that would mean brlcad wouldn't be brlcad. he'd be arlcad. haha. we have the power to change his name :) |
| 22:30.55 | louipc | yeah that might be a source of confusion |
| 22:31.02 | ``Erik | heh, I think he'd rather just keep 'tofu' :) |
| 22:31.11 | butti | poolio: you guyes are just intrested on hacking this app insted to draw |
| 22:31.24 | louipc | I'm interested in drawing |
| 22:33.02 | poolio | butti: This chat is primarily used by those who develop the software. Most of us program more than we model, but most of the devs have atleast some experience modelling. |
| 22:34.19 | butti | poolio: this is maybe not the best situation |
| 22:34.53 | louipc | I'd agree |
| 22:35.12 | brlcad | yeah, I'd revert back to one of my old names before going to arlcad |
| 22:35.23 | butti | i wouldn walk on your nervs, guyes, if i would find some another channel of brl-USERS |
| 22:35.25 | brlcad | heck, arrcad would be better |
| 22:35.27 | louipc | so brlcad needs more users |
| 22:35.31 | brlcad | speak-like-a-pirate-cad |
| 22:36.44 | ``Erik | arrrrrrb8 |
| 22:37.02 | starseeker | we'd have to model a sailing ship to be the new cad logo |
| 22:37.41 | ``Erik | hum, mal has a model of an old golden age frigate or something, he could hit the button and push out a png ;) |
| 22:37.47 | butti | notabe Im very suprised that amarican army using basicly linux for drawing |
| 22:38.02 | starseeker | ``Erik: really? That's cool! |
| 22:38.03 | butti | this is a country of windows |
| 22:38.11 | ``Erik | but the research lab has a slew of linux machines |
| 22:38.12 | butti | hehe |
| 22:38.12 | louipc | I think Malorean has a model of a frigate |
| 22:38.12 | starseeker | (the sailing ship, not lack of Linux) |
| 22:38.30 | ``Erik | brlcad and I both have 8 core mac pro's with gobs of memory and monitors |
| 22:38.39 | louipc | mac? |
| 22:38.40 | ``Erik | I log into a freebsd box for most of my compiling and testing |
| 22:38.53 | ``Erik | and I'm on a 17" powerbook right now *cough* O:-) |
| 22:39.02 | poolio | errrrrrrrrrrrr |
| 22:39.05 | butti | uh |
| 22:39.10 | louipc | butti: what country is that? |
| 22:39.38 | butti | louipc: make whois |
| 22:39.41 | ``Erik | heh, the hostname doesn't give it away? :D |
| 22:39.44 | louipc | I used to say that I'd get a mac but I think now I'd rather shoot myself in the foot |
| 22:39.55 | ``Erik | louipc: why? |
| 22:40.08 | ``Erik | a few tweaks, and it's reasonably similar to fbsd... |
| 22:40.20 | brlcad | butti: this is what I was trying to get you to do: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/butti.png |
| 22:40.20 | louipc | it's a frankenstein OS |
| 22:40.20 | butti | louipc: DE |
| 22:40.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:40.30 | louipc | ``Erik: I'd just use fbsd :P |
| 22:41.01 | starseeker | Macs have graphics to die for, so long as someone else is footing the bill... |
| 22:41.07 | butti | brlcad: shaded looks well but the wires, which i need are not usable |
| 22:41.07 | ``Erik | and linux is a paper mache monster created from a slew of 12yo's shooting spitwads, and windows is just... plain... evil... wrong... *shudder* |
| 22:41.16 | ``Erik | my 12" ibook was $700 |
| 22:41.50 | ``Erik | mac mini is pretty reasonable, just don't buy the monitor and memory from apple :) |
| 22:41.51 | starseeker | ``Erik: Heh. Well, for paper mache it does pretty well. |
| 22:42.12 | louipc | ``Erik: gimme a break linux is way better than that |
| 22:42.18 | butti | brlcad: i will do that now |
| 22:42.42 | poolio | brlcad: you got the $100 iPhone credit? |
| 22:42.43 | ``Erik | heh, not really... I kinda gave up on linux after too much kernel work around '98 or '99... gave fbsd a try and was floored by the awesomeness |
| 22:42.59 | brlcad | butti: yes, it shows all the polygon edges, that's what I was saying that mged's wireframe is a bit different |
| 22:43.02 | louipc | oh linux sucked until after 2002 |
| 22:43.05 | louipc | or so |
| 22:43.10 | brlcad | rtedge (picture in the bottom right) is closer |
| 22:43.11 | starseeker | ``Erik: $700 - cool. My complaint with Apple is not so much the machine price, but that Every Single App for it (that isn't a unix port) costs money. |
| 22:43.17 | brlcad | poolio: yeah |
| 22:43.18 | louipc | so I understand that I guess |
| 22:43.39 | louipc | yeah linux finally stuck on me when I started using gentoo |
| 22:43.59 | louipc | then I was sick of compiling every single app on my slow computer and I'm on archlinux now |
| 22:44.11 | starseeker | The beauty of Gentoo is that, in theory, you could swap out the kernel and keep right on truckin |
| 22:44.22 | brlcad | starseeker: huh? .. not all of them |
| 22:44.29 | brlcad | there are tons that are free, some ports, some not |
| 22:44.39 | starseeker | brlcad: Really? |
| 22:44.41 | brlcad | most of the really good ones actually aren't ports, but a few are |
| 22:44.46 | ``Erik | loui: I still have debian boxes, redhat boxes, have dorked with ubuntu and gentoo a little... the core suckage is still there :( eSPECIALLY on redhat breeds |
| 22:44.52 | brlcad | yeah, search through http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ and versiontracker.com for starters |
| 22:45.04 | brlcad | (though the latter also does free/shareware) |
| 22:45.08 | starseeker | brlcad: Maybe there are more nowadays - I guess it's been a while since I did a MacOS freeware hunt |
| 22:45.35 | ``Erik | starseeker: the only app I've felt compelled to drop $'s on for my mac is 'world of dorkcraft'... otherwise, it's a shiny unix machine for me : |
| 22:46.03 | brlcad | it's just about any app you have on linux, every app on bsd, and maybe a third of the apps on windows (.. and of course the handful of mac-only) |
| 22:46.04 | starseeker | sweeet. |
| 22:46.14 | butti | brlcad: i still dont get the picture...but I see that i cant work with that how I nee |
| 22:46.16 | louipc | yeah I've never been enthused with debian or redhat |
| 22:46.32 | louipc | but if you dare - try archlinux it's quite different |
| 22:46.37 | starseeker | That's really cool. I guess my last major run-in with Macs was just before OSX became the big thing |
| 22:46.45 | ``Erik | a lot of my bigger problems are with the kernel proper. and redhat 'fixes' their kernel images to be far more fucked up |
| 22:46.55 | louipc | lol |
| 22:46.57 | starseeker | Nice to see it getting more friendly :) :) |
| 22:47.09 | starseeker | brlcad: Thanks for the heads up! |
| 22:47.14 | brlcad | butti: for what it's worth -- that model you have is exceptionally trivial -- it translates to CSG pretty directly and would not have all the lines like that if it were re-modeled in brl-cad |
| 22:47.34 | brlcad | butti: it has all of the lines because it's a dxf conversion and not modeled using primitives |
| 22:48.14 | starseeker | doggone it, now the next computer replacement cycle I'm going to have to look at a Mac... |
| 22:48.18 | butti | brlcad: but it create wires which are not exist in my model |
| 22:48.33 | brlcad | they do exist |
| 22:48.36 | butti | thats a point |
| 22:48.54 | brlcad | those are the edges to the polygons that make up the object |
| 22:49.08 | louipc | butti: you modeled in blender yeah? |
| 22:49.16 | brlcad | the only difference is that brl-cad shows them to you whereas something like blender will hide the internal edges |
| 22:49.20 | butti | louipc: yes |
| 22:49.31 | louipc | yeah even a flat square is made up of two triangles |
| 22:49.33 | brlcad | the edges are still there, even in blender |
| 22:49.46 | ``Erik | will turning on 'smoothing' in the bot "fix" it? |
| 22:49.48 | louipc | there's a function in blender which you can manipulate those |
| 22:49.53 | brlcad | nah |
| 22:49.55 | butti | brlcad: i can understand created wires on some round objects, but not on simpe primes |
| 22:50.10 | brlcad | it needs to be implicit prims if you want the mged wire to be minimal |
| 22:51.05 | brlcad | butti: how about the hidden-line rendering in the bottom right corner of that screenshot -- is that closer to what you are looking for? |
| 22:51.06 | butti | so you mean some vertics are not closed? |
| 22:51.09 | ``Erik | <-- only half paying attention... is it the wireframe display (*_plot) being discussed? |
| 22:51.30 | butti | brlcad: yes it is |
| 22:52.15 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, he's (understandly) not happy with the mged wireframe .. particularly that it doesn't hide the internel mesh edges (and probably would next want hidden-edge detection to hide those as well) |
| 22:52.40 | ``Erik | heh, it's that or seeing the cutters, too... heh |
| 22:52.42 | brlcad | butti: that's "rtedge" - you can run rtedge on any model as needed if visualization is your goal |
| 22:53.02 | brlcad | yeah, he's not even gotten to doing an csg yet |
| 22:53.19 | brlcad | butti: here's what it would look like with primitives: http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 22:53.22 | butti | brlcad: it is possible to work with is rightside image this way: change of high of some objects and measure the outside wires? |
| 22:53.42 | brlcad | and a more complex rtedge: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 22:54.30 | brlcad | butti: that would be dimensioning .. and is pretty much a drafting requirement; brl-cad isn't strongly suited to drafting at the moment, but it's on the todo list |
| 22:54.32 | butti | brlcad: the first one is that what i would like to reach |
| 22:55.02 | butti | jessus, volks i will loos my work if if if |
| 22:55.26 | brlcad | butti: the first one is just modeling something simple using brl-cad directly |
| 22:55.31 | brlcad | not a dxf conversion |
| 22:55.50 | butti | I understand |
| 22:56.24 | starseeker | figures, I dove into Linux without looking back just when it started getting good... |
| 22:56.25 | brlcad | maybe give the tutorials a try on the main website: http://brlcad.org .. read the Documentation links 1, 2, and 3 |
| 22:56.26 | butti | brlcad: how is it with import .obj into brl? |
| 22:56.33 | brlcad | same problem, that's a mesh format |
| 22:56.39 | brlcad | brl-cad doesn't like meshes |
| 22:56.42 | louipc | oh I guess I would get a mac if I wanted to play games... or use some of that proprietary software that's out there |
| 22:57.24 | butti | ok |
| 22:57.38 | starseeker | louipc: For some of what I do (Axiom/Lisp) Linux is still the primary platform, but for things like presentations, documents, etc it's nice to have everything "just work" to save time |
| 22:57.47 | brlcad | you can view meshes (as you've seen), but they're a pain in the ass to work with and maintain solid geometry |
| 22:59.24 | poolio | ``Erik: heh, I tried that when I was trying to learn emacs/lisp and just ended up crying. |
| 22:59.36 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:59.38 | butti | brlcad: I think you gave me very much informations which I know to use...So I think the next step for me is to draw the model from the beginning. this project is quit easy to draw as would be in original |
| 23:00.00 | ``Erik | <-- comfortable with scheme, but is a vim guy, so the twisted differences between scheme and common lisp, plus trying to learn emacs... is interesting :) |
| 23:00.00 | butti | brlcad: no cad prog likes meshes how I know |
| 23:00.02 | louipc | indeed! |
| 23:00.03 | butti | :( |
| 23:00.32 | starseeker | ``Erik: Where's sbcl running? |
| 23:00.53 | ``Erik | on my fbsd box, same as the emacs |
| 23:01.00 | poolio | ``Erik: you have taken the emacs learning path!? Coming from what? |
| 23:01.18 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 23:01.22 | ``Erik | vim |
| 23:01.33 | poolio | ``Erik: that's what I use now. Tell me how it goes please. |
| 23:01.43 | ``Erik | so far, not so impressive |
| 23:02.04 | starseeker | ``Erik: If your brain doesn't explode, you will have reached some kind of higher mental plane knowing both vim and Emacs ;-) |
| 23:02.13 | brlcad | butti: some of the commercial CAD systems with billions behind their development don't do too bad with meshes.. |
| 23:02.14 | ``Erik | the major arguments all kinda fall apart when ya get to 'em :/ but I'm sure the same goes for the other direction |
| 23:02.30 | brlcad | and if you have a billion dollars lying around, I'd be happy to make brl-cad work well with meshes |
| 23:02.35 | brlcad | just for you even |
| 23:02.38 | starseeker | hehe |
| 23:02.59 | poolio | brlcad: aren't you the generous one! |
| 23:03.03 | brlcad | i am! |
| 23:03.12 | poolio | Heh, we don't need that inflation |
| 23:03.28 | starseeker | (he might be actually - some tasks of that nature are HARD) |
| 23:03.35 | ``Erik | heh, did barnie explode? :D |
| 23:03.52 | starseeker | barnie? |
| 23:04.12 | ``Erik | yeah, y'know, big purple dinosaur |
| 23:04.16 | ``Erik | makes kids retarded |
| 23:04.17 | starseeker | we can only hope |
| 23:04.20 | butti | brlcad: how it ist whith measuring of objects? |
| 23:04.21 | brlcad | ``Erik: you're probably still pretty darn far away from any sort of efficiency |
| 23:04.54 | brlcad | especially if you still didn't see the diff between meta keybinding commands and modalities in vim |
| 23:04.59 | ``Erik | obviously, but I'm still working at it... *shrug* just noting that the big arguments emacs advocates put forwards... well, are bunk :) |
| 23:05.08 | brlcad | such as? |
| 23:05.17 | ``Erik | emacs is starting to seem kinda modal when I want the meta key *cough* |
| 23:05.22 | brlcad | modalities is really the only/pain difference |
| 23:06.24 | brlcad | vim is modal, emacs is non-modal during editing, quasi-modal (actual term for it) when invoking commands |
| 23:06.26 | ``Erik | and the buffers keep rearranging themselves and changing which ones are visible or hidden |
| 23:07.00 | ``Erik | hmmm, that means modal, dude :D *duck* |
| 23:07.07 | brlcad | it doesn't |
| 23:07.13 | brlcad | actually has a defined meaning |
| 23:07.26 | brlcad | quasimodal is very different from modal |
| 23:07.46 | brlcad | and still, only applies to actions being taken -- editing/use is still non-modal |
| 23:09.04 | ``Erik | the thing I trip up on most is having to use multiple keys or moving my hand to move the cursor, I miss the home row fast navigation... I suppose when my left pinky starts figuring out what to do, it'll get easier |
| 23:09.11 | brlcad | i'm not even arguing that it's better or worse, but it is definitely different in the impact and different type of modality interface |
| 23:09.29 | ``Erik | *shrug* but I'm still sticking with it |
| 23:09.43 | brlcad | yeah, that's just memory/familiarity - that part is no diff to vim really |
| 23:10.33 | ``Erik | "jjj^H^H^H<down><down><down>" hehehhe :D |
| 23:11.00 | brlcad | same goes for learning to manage your buffers, tweaking settings if auto-buffer arrangement isn't your style |
| 23:11.16 | brlcad | ctrl-n/p |
| 23:11.21 | brlcad | next/previous line |
| 23:11.30 | brlcad | just like console |
| 23:11.41 | ``Erik | <-- set -o vi |
| 23:11.48 | brlcad | yeah, that's nuts :) |
| 23:11.50 | ``Erik | later, butti :) |
| 23:11.57 | butti | bye |
| 23:11.58 | brlcad | cya butti |
| 23:12.53 | brlcad | poor guy, any job that depends on learning a new cad package (*any* new cad package) in under 10 days is nuts |
| 23:13.01 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:13.05 | ``Erik | ludicrous even |
| 23:13.31 | ``Erik | just remember to put on your seat belt if going to ludicrous speed |
| 23:26.29 | brlcad | butti: fyi, the units on your model are wrong, unless you intentionally modeled something about 20mm in size .. have to scale it up by about a factor of 1000 |
| 23:26.58 | brlcad | and it has several distinct objects intersecting that shouldn't |
| 23:37.06 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtedge seems to get stuck in a loop at the end of rendering, has to be killed |
| 23:38.58 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:39.19 | ``Erik | under what circumstances? |
| 23:40.01 | brlcad | seems any rtedge I run |
| 23:40.16 | ``Erik | O.o 2 cpu? |
| 23:40.19 | brlcad | it gets to completion, sends everything to the framebuffer and then just hangs |
| 23:40.22 | brlcad | yeah, 2 |
| 23:40.30 | ``Erik | weird |
| 23:40.51 | brlcad | hm -P1 works |
| 23:42.26 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:42.34 | ``Erik | or it might be related to the image saving in libbu |
| 23:42.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: works with -P1 |
| 23:42.56 | ``Erik | I'll dork with it tomorrow, I'm watching dr who, then cartoons, then sleep |
| 23:42.58 | brlcad | rt is fine |
| 23:42.59 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:43.15 | brlcad | and this is rendering to framebuffer, not file |
| 23:43.27 | ``Erik | hum, ok |
| 23:52.47 | brlcad | hm, perhaps a race condition on lastlinedone |
| 23:53.38 | brlcad | maybe just because the lines don't have to be in order |
| 00:13.34 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: eliminate vararg and non-ansi cray-specific support code |
| 00:21.54 | brlcad | FYI, if you run screen on .bz, I've made a simple 'rx' script that reattaches you to your existing screen session |
| 00:31.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: ws expand for readability |
| 00:33.45 | ``Erik | O.o "screen -r" is that tricky? |
| 00:40.22 | brlcad | not in the least |
| 00:40.37 | brlcad | it's just a shorthand that saves the typing (for what is a fairly frequent command for me) |
| 00:41.04 | brlcad | two chars vs 12-22 chars |
| 00:42.13 | brlcad | it does an -x instead of an -r, I like em in parallel myself |
| 00:48.48 | brlcad | dear god man |
| 00:49.03 | brlcad | it's a toolbox essential |
| 00:49.18 | brlcad | almost as necessary as learning a decent editor |
| 00:55.25 | starseeker | heh - and I thought using fluxbox was going minimalist on the graphical desktop side... ;-) |
| 00:55.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: don't call va_start until after making sure it's not a null format |
| 00:58.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/bomb.c include/bu.h): |
| 00:58.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add a new bu_exit() function that never returns. this function differs from |
| 00:58.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bu_bomb() in that it supports an error code and printf style arguments. it |
| 00:58.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: should not be used for 'exceptional' exit conditions where stability and |
| 00:58.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: validity are in question; it should be used when you simply want to politely |
| 00:58.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: exit the application after printing a message (like printing application usage |
| 00:58.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: and exiting). |
| 00:59.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: oops, remove debugging |
| 01:02.11 | starseeker | brlcad: If you can remember this far back, how long did it take you for the key bindings to become second nature on screen? |
| 01:03.27 | brlcad | hm, a few days iirc |
| 01:03.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: stfu about the longjmp handler being taken. the user doesn't care and the message is rather misleading. |
| 01:03.59 | brlcad | getting used to ctrl-a a and ctrl-a e were the tricky ones as I use them all the time |
| 01:04.09 | brlcad | but now it's pretty fluid whether i'm in screen or not |
| 01:04.31 | starseeker | Cool. |
| 01:04.56 | brlcad | you'll want to learn ctrl-a f for flow control and ctrl-a F to "resize" the screen window (if you reattach from a terminal of a different size) |
| 01:05.12 | brlcad | it's basically persistent shell sessions, so long as the machine stays up |
| 01:05.46 | brlcad | so I can be on irc 24/7 or have instant access to various remote servers that I need, dedicated windows to watch various log files, etc |
| 01:06.56 | starseeker | Ah, OK. Very nice! |
| 01:07.39 | starseeker | I can definitely see where this would help avoid the need to use the mouse... |
| 01:07.56 | brlcad | particularly if you run screen on a server that's always up (e.g. .bz) then you can even ssh out from there to various hosts and keep windows open to them |
| 01:08.38 | brlcad | you can then attach to that session on the remote server from anywhere and get back to your "console workspace" |
| 01:09.22 | starseeker | So a screen "session" would consist of all the windows open in that particular instance of screen? |
| 01:09.23 | brlcad | other useful commands are creating a new screen (ctrl-a c) and navigating (ctrl-a n or p) |
| 01:09.39 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:09.42 | brlcad | they all persist |
| 01:10.09 | starseeker | That's nifty. |
| 01:10.44 | starseeker | On a machine without an X server, this has to be a "must" |
| 01:10.53 | brlcad | so, for example, I log into .bz where my screen session consists of one context that has irssi always running, another has e-mail, another has various logfiles being watched, and then others are created/destroyed as needed depending on things I'm working on |
| 01:11.39 | brlcad | even with an X server .. it's low overhead, mouseless, efficient console/workspace management |
| 01:12.28 | starseeker | Interesting - like the command line itself, it gives a considerable efficiency increase for a small initial educational investment |
| 01:13.52 | starseeker | Which email client do you use - Mutt? |
| 01:14.53 | brlcad | heh, I'm still a pine die hard |
| 01:15.11 | starseeker | Hehe - haven't used pine since my undergrad days |
| 01:15.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 01:15.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: user-visible change.. removed longjmp warning message from applications that was |
| 01:15.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: called during bu_bomb's where an application exception handler was registered. |
| 01:15.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: this was a common cause for confusion in the converters that use the jump |
| 01:15.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: handler during normal operations quite frequently -- made it look like the |
| 01:15.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: application was repeatedly 'crashing' during conversion yet the application |
| 01:15.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: would keep processing. |
| 01:15.44 | starseeker | I should try Mutt - right now I'm using thunderbird and it gets on my nerves sometimes... |
| 01:15.47 | brlcad | I've used mutt, it's fine .. but I rather like pine's no-nonesense simplicity (which obviously removes a lot of functionality) |
| 01:16.22 | brlcad | a list of messages, message folders, basic attachment support, I'm good |
| 01:17.12 | brlcad | I rather like Apple Mail as well, incremental searching of all mailboxes in realtime is shibby cool |
| 01:17.35 | starseeker | sweet |
| 01:17.44 | brlcad | nice to see that applications are finally starting to learn from emacs' incremental searching that was done 20 years ago :) |
| 01:18.03 | starseeker | heh - some things do seem to catch on slow, don't they? |
| 01:18.27 | brlcad | yeah, like brl-cad and a nice gui ;) |
| 01:18.34 | starseeker | hehe |
| 01:19.31 | starseeker | at the very least, it mixes VTK and QT |
| 01:19.35 | brlcad | hm, I wonder what kind of response I'd get if I started a project where I'd pay people to find and fix bugs |
| 01:20.07 | brlcad | something like $1 to find them and $10 if they provide a fix |
| 01:20.39 | brlcad | the bugs would have to be approved beforehand so someone doesn't just dump 1000 bugs down and expect 10000 in payment of course, but I think something like that might work |
| 01:20.52 | ``Erik | some 'bugs' are opinion :/ |
| 01:20.58 | starseeker | That was my thought |
| 01:21.07 | brlcad | yep, exactly why they'd have to be approved |
| 01:21.42 | starseeker | It might have some potential, both for utility and as an advertising mechanism |
| 01:22.18 | brlcad | could use the tracker system .. the poster of the message would get the $1, and the first to attach a patch (after the tracker state went from submitted to acknowledged) would get a paypal |
| 01:22.43 | starseeker | well, first patch that was verified to fix the bug |
| 01:23.27 | brlcad | I could see putting 1k towards something like this |
| 01:23.36 | brlcad | get 100 bugs fixed |
| 01:24.42 | starseeker | Might be worth a shot |
| 01:25.23 | brlcad | the idea would be to only approve bugs that would likely take about an hour to find the bug, create a patch, and document it |
| 01:25.57 | starseeker | Right. Spelling errors in comments need not apply |
| 01:26.15 | brlcad | would have to quantify that into the instructions of course -- don't care if the bug is something like a documentation bug, "manual page is missing -g option" |
| 01:26.27 | brlcad | yeah, though I certainly wouldn't call that a bug |
| 01:26.51 | starseeker | me either, but people can have surprisingly "elastic" definitions at times... |
| 01:27.26 | brlcad | a bug is a run-time flaw that either causes a crash/corruption, or is run-time behavior that contradicts the documented and expected behavior |
| 01:27.53 | starseeker | Oh, I was wondering earlier - has the use of unit testing in BRL-CAD ever been considered? |
| 01:27.58 | starseeker | That's a good definition |
| 01:28.39 | brlcad | there are also compilation bugs and documentation bugs, but those rarely ever take more than a couple minutes |
| 01:28.45 | brlcad | (to identify and fix) |
| 01:28.50 | starseeker | Yep. |
| 01:29.43 | brlcad | yeah, unit testing has been extensively considered.. |
| 01:30.03 | brlcad | right now, it's just a bunch of simple integration tests that tests overall functionality |
| 01:30.27 | brlcad | with the idea that the tests would be expanded to even more and more tests, particularly as issues are found |
| 01:31.11 | starseeker | OK. |
| 01:31.14 | brlcad | now as to doing actual code unit testing, the issue there has always been that there's about a million lines of existing code, thousands of "units" that one would want to test, and nobody wants to write/maintain that code at the moment |
| 01:31.27 | starseeker | Figured :-) |
| 01:31.56 | brlcad | it's enough work as it is just to ensure that all the public functions are even documented, much less write code that properly tests each one |
| 01:32.35 | brlcad | so, we have the minimal maintenance approach -- tests at a higher level, integration tests that make sure apps end up doing what they're expected to do |
| 01:32.46 | starseeker | Makes sense. |
| 01:33.47 | brlcad | still could be way better than what we have, and if someone pulled up a test generator that wrote a test for each routine, it could be a laundry list to fill in the guts for each test as people feel like it |
| 01:34.52 | brlcad | did something "vaguely" related with the new flawfinder 'test' that is in the regression suite -- it runs flawfinder and if there are any items reported at/above the level specified, it means that someone made a function call that wasn't allowed (like bob a few days ago) |
| 01:35.26 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 01:35.35 | brlcad | had to change a few hundred instances of code just to get it down to level 5, but that was good/necessary code cleanup |
| 01:36.04 | brlcad | I should have level 4 done soon, fixed about 700 issues with about 400 remaining |
| 01:36.15 | starseeker | Impressive. |
| 01:36.32 | brlcad | that's probably a good balance.. level 3 is just flawfinder being picky :) |
| 01:36.43 | starseeker | Most of these were never triggered by "normal" BRL-CAD use? |
| 01:37.05 | brlcad | oh, flawfinder just does a static code analysis |
| 01:37.12 | starseeker | Oh, OK. |
| 01:37.24 | brlcad | it looks that you're using function BLAH, and BLAH is in it's level N list |
| 01:37.51 | brlcad | e.g. you're using strcmp, which is generally unsafe .. should use strncmp to make sure you don't read past your memory buffer |
| 01:38.17 | starseeker | Gotcha. |
| 01:38.26 | brlcad | so whether they're actually security holes or not depends massively on how the logic is structured |
| 01:39.13 | brlcad | but they're certainly "potentially" exploitable situations that are almost never absolutely necessary, so we can eliminate the ones we have and keep it at a given level (e.g. level 4) |
| 01:39.35 | brlcad | splint blew chunks on brl-cad's code last I tried it |
| 01:39.39 | brlcad | had trouble parsing several files |
| 01:39.50 | starseeker | hmm. pity |
| 01:40.04 | starseeker | their parser isn't up to snuff? |
| 01:40.06 | brlcad | would be worth trying again, that was years ago |
| 01:40.34 | brlcad | would make for yet another good test to add after getting flawfinder down to level 3 issues only |
| 01:41.02 | brlcad | flawfinder was nice because I could just add it to the sourcebase as it's just a few thousand line perl script |
| 01:41.14 | brlcad | s/perl/python/ |
| 01:41.17 | starseeker | Ah, that is nice. |
| 01:41.24 | brlcad | 1877 lines |
| 01:41.28 | brlcad | er 1866 |
| 01:43.01 | starseeker | IIRC someone had a one line perl script to decode the Matrix DVD back when the whole DeCSS thing was all the rage... |
| 01:43.16 | brlcad | yeah, you can do some really crazy stuff |
| 01:44.07 | brlcad | I have several perl programs that I've gone back to after many many years have passed, with absolutely no idea what the code does other than what the comments say |
| 01:44.50 | brlcad | they sure can be fast and compact to write though ... great for little cleanup and temporary processing tasks |
| 01:45.17 | starseeker | If there's some way to measure how much like line noise legal program source code can be made to look as a function of the language, I'll bet Perl wins |
| 01:45.20 | starseeker | true |
| 01:46.05 | brlcad | that's how the majority of BRL-CAD's files got a standard header and footer that were auto-populated with existing documentation pulled from within the file's existing contents including doxygen labels |
| 01:46.20 | starseeker | :-) |
| 01:46.29 | brlcad | as well as a few other processing tasks I've had to do over the years |
| 01:46.54 | brlcad | things that awk/sed/find -exec/and friends couldn't easily handle |
| 01:48.20 | starseeker | Just curious - did you pick up all the various tools as you worked on BRL-CAD, or did you learn them before that? |
| 01:48.28 | brlcad | both |
| 01:48.43 | brlcad | some before, some after |
| 01:49.36 | starseeker | Impressive. |
| 01:49.37 | brlcad | over the years, just learning the tools as needed depending on what is generally best for the job instead of trying to make the tools I know fit the job |
| 01:49.51 | starseeker | That's the way to do it. |
| 01:50.00 | starseeker | I wish that approach was more common |
| 01:50.40 | brlcad | it really helps to know/learn several different styles of programming languages too, just gives you a better fundamental understanding |
| 01:50.55 | brlcad | and not just procedural and object-oriented |
| 01:51.19 | starseeker | Indeed. |
| 01:51.31 | brlcad | though those are certainly really great starts |
| 01:51.52 | starseeker | We had a semester in college where they went over a few different languages, but I think they need to do a lot more of it. |
| 01:53.53 | brlcad | this "liberal arts" that you speak of.. it confuses me |
| 01:54.03 | brlcad | what engineering department do they teach that in? :) |
| 01:54.07 | starseeker | hehe |
| 01:54.32 | starseeker | Guess I should have said "typical undergraduate education: |
| 01:54.35 | brlcad | j/k, I loved some of my arts and crafts classes :) |
| 01:54.49 | Maloeran | Liberal arts, that must be part of web design |
| 01:54.54 | brlcad | the breadth of knowledge is impressive |
| 01:55.14 | starseeker | Actually, my advanced English class was a lot of fun. (Don't tell any of my physics peers I said so though...) |
| 01:55.32 | starseeker | Turns out it really sucked to be a contemporary of Shakespeare |
| 01:56.52 | starseeker | Everyone else kinda got swamped in the history books, despite some decent writers being around... |
| 01:56.53 | brlcad | yeah, I can see that .. my advanced Spanish class was a lot of fun too .. read a book a week and write an in-depth report on it that everyone discusses |
| 01:57.24 | starseeker | Cool :-) |
| 01:58.05 | starseeker | or "muy bien" as it were |
| 01:58.36 | brlcad | took the placement test for kicks, but then found out I almost aced it and placed out of two years of the full-time undergrad courses .. so my courses actually counted towards my engineering "language requirements" at that level just as if it were an english course |
| 01:59.01 | starseeker | Sweet |
| 01:59.04 | poolio | college. :) |
| 01:59.11 | brlcad | was 4 classes away from a degree in spanish |
| 01:59.18 | brlcad | dunno wtf I would have ever done with that though :) |
| 01:59.48 | starseeker | I'm convinced the second AP test I took in English is proof that essay grading is impossible to do correctly... |
| 02:00.17 | starseeker | brlcad: Well, you could translate the BRL-CAD docs :-) |
| 02:00.33 | brlcad | and those last 4 classes would have been utter hell .. learning the etimology and history of the language, reading books in "old spanish" and matching them to the context of the times they were written in so that language analyses could be performed, etc .. bleh |
| 02:00.44 | starseeker | Ouch |
| 02:01.18 | poolio | I'm only...like 30 classes away from any degree |
| 02:01.31 | starseeker | poolio: Hang in there :-) |
| 02:01.42 | brlcad | once you get past the 'basic comprehension' phase and get into the "study of spanish" as a language, the fun level drops fast :) |
| 02:01.48 | brlcad | poolio: hehe |
| 02:01.51 | poolio | And I'm having second thoughts on my major, so yeah... |
| 02:02.00 | starseeker | poolio: What's your current major? |
| 02:02.10 | poolio | I'm currently ECE--Electrical and Computer Engineering |
| 02:02.36 | starseeker | That can be cool, especially if you like the lower level work. |
| 02:03.06 | brlcad | I remember having that thought my first year.. "Hmm.. 6 classes + electives and I have a BA in Spanish... or 20+ classes + electives and I have a BS" |
| 02:03.08 | poolio | Thing is I don't, I'm more of an algorithms dude. But I'm not really interested in pure CS. I'm thinking of just doing biology or some such |
| 02:03.32 | starseeker | (me thinks the CADR Lisp Machines are neat but prefers to work with software - fewer burned fingers and mistakes are easier to fix.) |
| 02:03.49 | brlcad | poolio: applied mathematics? :) |
| 02:03.51 | starseeker | Biology is a good field to go into - lots of growth |
| 02:03.56 | poolio | Always :) |
| 02:04.21 | poolio | brlcad: eh, I'm not that hardcore into math. I thought I was really into AI for a while but I'm not so sure anymore. |
| 02:04.37 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:04.42 | poolio | The issue is my school is mainly CS/Engineering based so majoring in something else here isn't going to look very good in the future |
| 02:04.48 | brlcad | well, that's the great part of college, find what you really love |
| 02:05.16 | poolio | Hope to |
| 02:05.21 | starseeker | My advice would be to follow what you want to do - forcing yourself to do something you don't like usually doesn't pay off in the long run |
| 02:05.23 | brlcad | there was one guy in my graduating class that came in dead-set on some engineering discipline iirc, or maybe history |
| 02:06.03 | starseeker | Transferring schools isn't unheard of by any means, if your school isn't strong in what you want |
| 02:06.07 | brlcad | he went away one summer and got a job at a state park after the first semester, and after that he was dead set on a carrier in being a state park ranger |
| 02:06.30 | starseeker | :-) |
| 02:06.40 | starseeker | I can see where that would have it's perks. |
| 02:06.42 | brlcad | and all of his classes afterwards were directly in support of that (and they of course hired him on the spot, he was dead passionate about it) |
| 02:07.28 | poolio | that's awesome |
| 02:07.34 | poolio | I've been mountain biking a ton in a local state park |
| 02:09.04 | starseeker | Well, I'd better hit the hay - this next week is going to be a doozie. |
| 02:09.09 | starseeker | Thanks all - good stuff! |
| 02:11.39 | poolio | nite |
| 02:24.55 | brlcad | poolio: awesome |
| 02:25.04 | brlcad | see ya guys |
| 03:57.23 | poolio | brlcad: you still around? I"m getting a mildly confusing linker error |
| 03:57.45 | poolio | /home/poolio/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 03:57.59 | poolio | (during build) |
| 04:29.38 | brlcad | jeez |
| 04:30.06 | brlcad | wth is causing that .. you're not the first to report that issue, yet I don't have a single system that shows that problem |
| 04:30.50 | louipc | what's the test? |
| 04:30.54 | brlcad | try removing the two LD_LIB lines in db/Makefile.am |
| 04:31.26 | louipc | oh build error |
| 04:32.15 | brlcad | it's trying to run the asc2g converter in db to generate the example .g files -- to do that, libtool creates an lt-asc2g that is supposed to work with the as-yet-not-installed libraries .. "some" change in the linking logic seems to be provoking libtool to failure on some subset of systems |
| 04:34.03 | brlcad | presumably some consistent (bugged) version of libtool or some distro with the same config setup |
| 04:35.50 | louipc | why not just distribute .g files instead of converting? |
| 04:36.33 | brlcad | have thought about it |
| 04:36.47 | brlcad | in part so that the contents of the files can be tracked in revision control |
| 04:36.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: more consistent echo output, use rt suffix for the solids.rt render script |
| 04:36.53 | brlcad | instead of being binary files |
| 04:37.00 | louipc | ah right |
| 04:37.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (14 files): more consistent echo output |
| 04:37.55 | brlcad | other part is in part to verify that compilation succeeded prior to installation |
| 04:38.40 | brlcad | just a pita to fight libtool issues with what it tries to keep track of |
| 04:39.22 | brlcad | if I could get a system to reproduce the error, I could probably find a work-around fix |
| 04:39.22 | louipc | yes I've heard of libtool issues heh |
| 04:39.35 | brlcad | yeah, don't get me started on libtool |
| 04:39.51 | brlcad | it's the weakest of the (already flaky) autotools build chain |
| 04:40.11 | brlcad | still useful overall, but sometimes a royal pita |
| 04:45.06 | poolio | brlcad: remove the LD_LIBRARY_PATH lines? |
| 04:45.35 | poolio | and why in db/Makefile.am? Isn't the issue with src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g? |
| 04:46.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: |
| 04:46.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: refactor and use the new bu_exit() instead of bombing on normal exit conditions. |
| 04:46.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: also fix a bug where specifying the the same filename for the dxf and g file |
| 04:46.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: would result in it actually 'working' because it called wdb_open() to |
| 04:46.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: open/create the the .g output file before checking if the dxf exists. really |
| 04:46.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: minor but happened to run into it when 'dxf-g asdf asdf' surprisingly completed |
| 04:46.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: successfuly |
| 05:23.44 | brlcad | ugh, nearly 2000 instances of bu_bomb to check |
| 05:23.58 | poolio | eek. |
| 05:24.09 | poolio | is this for flawfindger or some such? |
| 05:24.29 | poolio | s/flawfindger/flawfinder |
| 05:31.52 | brlcad | no, I changed the interface |
| 05:32.27 | poolio | eek. I think that effects my tiny portion of code too |
| 05:32.50 | brlcad | bu_bomb() was a general catch-all application abort, initially only intended as a means to abort from generally unrecoverable situations (like being out of memory or detecting outright memory corruption) |
| 05:33.08 | brlcad | over the years, it grew to be a convenient means to abort with a message |
| 05:34.07 | brlcad | will now that we have automatic crash-report generation, it really needed to distinguish between the core critical aborts (like corruption) and 'normal' application exits |
| 05:34.40 | poolio | what automatic crash-report generation do you have? |
| 05:34.49 | brlcad | so there's a new bu_exit() routine .. so I have to go through the 2000 or so callers of bu_bomb() one at a time and determine if it's something that would be potentially useful to have a crash report of |
| 05:35.54 | poolio | Did you write this up somewhere or is this brand new? |
| 05:35.59 | brlcad | brand new |
| 05:36.13 | poolio | And so bu_bomb does the stack trace and what not, bu_exit() exits with a message? |
| 05:36.23 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:36.51 | poolio | makes sense. have fun :) |
| 05:36.55 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:37.07 | brlcad | code gardening |
| 05:37.13 | brlcad | happens |
| 05:37.19 | poolio | that's what interns are for |
| 05:37.38 | brlcad | sometimes |
| 05:37.55 | brlcad | I generally like to put interns on stuff that's actually fun |
| 05:38.24 | poolio | Heh. I'm very happy about that :) |
| 05:38.55 | brlcad | don't always succeed, but I certainly try :) |
| 05:40.17 | brlcad | some kids just aren't motivated by code, or aren't capable of touching/editing code safely |
| 05:42.33 | poolio | yeah...but don't the interns kind of choose what they're interested in based on their skills? Like are you given interns to put to work or is it some sort of selection process? |
| 05:46.12 | brlcad | 'yes' |
| 05:47.26 | brlcad | it's a mix, an exceptional mix of talent .. and depends heavily on whether they are hs or college usually (or at least how much experience they have thinking for themselves) |
| 05:49.38 | poolio | well, I must sleep. 9:30 class tomorrow. ta ta |
| 06:33.05 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) | |
| 06:33.05 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent | |
| 07:33.49 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
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| 08:09.33 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:37.40 | brlcad | yeah, I shoudl probably do that too |
| 08:43.56 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: have you heard computer generated singing? |
| 08:44.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h nmg.h): tweak debug log messages for consistency |
| 08:44.36 | Z80-Boy | http://cslu.cse.ogi.edu/tts/flinger/jukebox/song10.mp3 |
| 08:44.43 | Z80-Boy | http://cslu.cse.ogi.edu/tts/flinger/jukebox/song1.mp3 |
| 08:46.21 | Z80-Boy | I wrote a string synthesizer a C program that takes a guitar tab in ASCII on stdin and spits a .wav file on the stdout |
| 08:46.34 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com/gut_feeling.mp3 |
| 08:48.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (14 files): |
| 08:48.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: first 10% of the review of the bu_bomb() instances. updating many to bu_exit() |
| 08:48.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: for the instances where the error or exit condition aren't catastrophic errors |
| 08:48.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (i.e. they wouldn't benefit from having a stack trace of how we got into that |
| 08:48.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: state code-wise). this also makes it easier to refactor usages of log & exit |
| 08:48.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: too to the new routine. |
| 08:52.44 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-082-070.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 08:52.58 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: more bu_bomb to bu_exit conversions |
| 09:07.15 | *** join/#brlcad butti_ (n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 09:07.27 | butti_ | he all |
| 09:07.54 | butti_ | brlcad: 20 mm must be something about 20 m..Blender has no units at all |
| 09:08.20 | butti_ | brlcad: just grids whit 1 unit |
| 09:09.50 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 09:10.00 | *** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 09:10.31 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 09:11.24 | butti | brlcad: mabe its enogh to scall it 1mm to 1m..thats all |
| 09:22.23 | butti | brlcad: I would be very intrested to learn about this software and I will ask you for help not only one time. For this moment, Im runnig already another taktic. No time for brlcad :(. My Project needs to be finished (some objects must be chenge and new will coming. So if plan to make something from this file, which I gave you, pls dont, is not ready yet. I will draw in qcad each view in 2d. I will take a shot from blender wires view and take the |
| 09:26.52 | *** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 09:37.50 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178112163.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 09:42.32 | butti | brlcad: do you know the software javawiew? I love to work with that. Lot of inspirations comes from this app to me. It has almost the same gui. It is an app. which is working with mathematical formel and its make quit the same what all 3d progs doing. It is lovely. Take a look at that! http://www.javaview.de/ |
| 09:58.44 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543972.dsl.bell.ca) | |
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| 14:09.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: use bu_exit() instead of bu_log() on unknown argument (I think that's what was intended... segfaults using bu_log with given args) |
| 14:25.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: make i unsigned to match nsemaphores |
| 14:46.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/htester.c: |
| 14:46.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Add missing include for bu.h. Fixed sign issues. Rearranged and modernized. |
| 14:46.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: Added -v (version) flag and improved argument checking. |
| 15:16.54 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548743D2.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 15:35.37 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: start stubbing in the -c stuff |
| 15:36.44 | *** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX33.andrew.cmu.edu) | |
| 15:42.15 | ``Erik | oi, hoolio |
| 15:58.28 | bpoole | mornin' |
| 16:13.27 | brlcad | butti: heh, blender does have units, just doesn't expose them very well |
| 16:13.40 | brlcad | butti: no, I'm not familiar with javawiew |
| 16:15.37 | butti | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:15.41 | brlcad | ahh, it's like mathematica's plugin, but in java |
| 16:15.50 | brlcad | shame it's not open source |
| 16:17.02 | butti | brlcad: you cant change the units to meter or zoll,,this is like that an im gald about that |
| 16:17.46 | brlcad | it wasn't a problem, it's trivial to scale it up even after importing into brl-cad |
| 16:18.21 | butti | sure |
| 16:18.48 | ``Erik | *shudder* |
| 16:18.53 | brlcad | I noticed because rtedge takes the absolute size into account when determining whether to draw an edge -- several of the features were "too small" when I first rendered it |
| 16:19.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: crude -c functionality |
| 16:19.19 | ``Erik | yes, rtedge should use like a fraction of scene bounding sphere or something O.o |
| 16:19.44 | ``Erik | *shudder* don't look at that patch, I'm fighting ugly with ugly to get something in their hands fast, and am starting to fix it... |
| 16:19.57 | ``Erik | oh, um, heh, that's right, I was gonna look at that :D |
| 16:20.12 | brlcad | i won't, I"m on a bu_exit() frenzy probably for the rest of the day |
| 16:20.40 | ``Erik | yeah, I had to fix one of those in src/conv/g-nmg.c O.o |
| 16:20.40 | brlcad | different semaphore bug |
| 16:21.00 | ``Erik | bu_log(1, "blah", argv[0]); ? O.o |
| 16:21.27 | brlcad | there's "some" bug in rt at least where it'll crash during raytrace, something is either not being protected or something in semaphore.c has changed that breaks it |
| 16:21.50 | ``Erik | ohhh, the src/libbu/semaphore.c ? heh, no, I'm just fixing trivial Wall type errors there |
| 16:21.55 | brlcad | it's exceptionally random, and seems to only happen a few % of the time, so I've not been able to provoke it to find it |
| 16:22.09 | ``Erik | hum, -p3000 help expose it? |
| 16:23.07 | brlcad | if I put rt in a while loop rendering to /dev/null, it usually can happen anywhere from a few dozen to few hundred iterations (and sometimes not even then) |
| 16:23.49 | ``Erik | does the bomb code catch unexpected seggies and bus faults? |
| 16:24.51 | ``Erik | hum, tcl85b1 triggers portaudit, 'ReadImage' has known buffer overflow issues O.o |
| 16:25.22 | brlcad | no, I didn't want to add the signal handlers before release until all the issues were sorted out with bu_bomb() |
| 16:26.22 | brlcad | plus wasn't positive about the scope of impact and how it'd play if there were multiple signal handlers installed |
| 16:26.28 | ``Erik | I guess pick a fast machine multiproc and ask rt to render 1e6 frames in gdb or dbx or something? :) |
| 16:26.52 | ``Erik | without a stack trace or something, it'd all be guessing |
| 16:27.12 | brlcad | I got stack traces.. they're just .. bizarre |
| 16:27.42 | ``Erik | url? |
| 16:28.34 | brlcad | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m41c678a9 |
| 16:28.54 | brlcad | the moncount was just because I made a profile build, happens with/without it |
| 16:29.32 | brlcad | the *parent* thread crashed there.. which should be just quietly waiting for the threads to exit |
| 16:29.38 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 16:29.46 | brlcad | and that was probably 1/3 into the ray-trace |
| 16:29.56 | ``Erik | heh, g_arb.c:798 is a variable decl on my source O.o |
| 16:30.22 | brlcad | that line changes from crash to crash |
| 16:30.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:30.34 | brlcad | thread 0 is usually the one that crashes though |
| 16:30.39 | ``Erik | only tested on a hackintosh? |
| 16:30.53 | ``Erik | <-- tends to favor bugchasing on bsd or even leenewx to a mac :/ |
| 16:32.00 | ``Erik | find . -name '*.[ch]' | xargs sed -i.bak 's/register //g' && cvs -z3 commit -m "damnit." |
| 16:32.01 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 16:32.02 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 16:32.54 | ``Erik | make dist && open http://sf.net/projects/brlcad # damnit. *cough* O:-) |
| 16:33.56 | ``Erik | hum |
| 16:34.20 | brlcad | like I said, I can't reliably reproduce it |
| 16:34.24 | ``Erik | with the rtedge not quitting issue, click closing the fb exist the program with $? 0 |
| 16:34.59 | brlcad | everytime I make a clean build with debug symbols, it seems to work, or the bt in gdb is meaningless |
| 16:35.46 | brlcad | I ran a test removing all the register keywords many years ago .. it actually slowed down significantly |
| 16:36.10 | brlcad | would be interesting to see if it's still the case |
| 16:36.14 | ``Erik | O.O "rtedge -F/dev/X havoc.g havoc" lingers the window |
| 16:36.28 | brlcad | linger is default |
| 16:36.29 | ``Erik | but the program exits immediately after the performance stuff is printed |
| 16:36.36 | ``Erik | yeah, but -F/dev/X should over-ride that |
| 16:36.38 | ``Erik | no? |
| 16:36.46 | brlcad | no, that's just X with defaults |
| 16:37.00 | brlcad | Xl would force linger on (if it weren't the default) |
| 16:37.47 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I should actually download the newest code and try out if the arbn bug is now gone in my situation |
| 16:37.57 | ``Erik | and how do you force linger OFF, then? |
| 16:38.07 | brlcad | and /dev/Xt |
| 16:38.15 | brlcad | transient vs lingering |
| 16:38.20 | Z80-Boy | The poll is missing the entry "I use it for so long that I don't remember anymore" |
| 16:38.35 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yeah, should be fixed now |
| 16:39.51 | Z80-Boy | COngrats to putting up the new website |
| 16:41.33 | brlcad | it's still not quite ready, several issues to sort out |
| 16:41.49 | brlcad | but I'd like more eyes on it to see how it renders |
| 16:43.06 | Z80-Boy | I use links so it doesn't render |
| 16:43.17 | Z80-Boy | It's just all gray |
| 16:44.34 | ``Erik | that's neat |
| 16:45.22 | ``Erik | oh |
| 16:45.25 | ``Erik | rt does it for me, too |
| 16:46.34 | ``Erik | "rt havoc.g havoc" doesn't exit, but if I give it -F/dev/X -F/dev/Xl or -F/dev/Xt, it does exit when it should |
| 17:36.33 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: screenshot? |
| 17:37.44 | brlcad | ``Erik: using full cpu? |
| 17:38.09 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@99.233.193.42) | |
| 17:38.13 | brlcad | rtedge was using full-cpu and never printed the raytrace complete message |
| 17:38.28 | yukonbob | Hello, whirled. |
| 17:38.35 | ``Erik | didn't look |
| 17:39.34 | ``Erik | hum, it's holding the cpu load up against 1 |
| 17:42.49 | ``Erik | same behavior with rt |
| 17:43.13 | ``Erik | and right click releases the program |
| 17:43.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (31 files in 5 dirs): |
| 17:43.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: whoosh, another 10% complete on the bu_bomb to bu_exit conversion review. also |
| 17:43.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: includes a slew of custom exit() calls that can use bu_exit() as well as toning |
| 17:43.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: down a slew of overzealous exclamation point use. (20% complete overall) |
| 17:44.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:44.20 | ``Erik | grep -r '!!!' src |
| 17:44.21 | ``Erik | eeks |
| 17:45.05 | ``Erik | hum |
| 17:45.11 | ``Erik | and a lot looks like john |
| 17:45.20 | ``Erik | png tools, pattern, ... |
| 17:51.22 | brlcad | it's just a style thing, but for messages being sent to the user, the "emotion" it conveys is a bit wierd sometimes :) |
| 17:51.48 | ``Erik | <-- looking at printed strings, not code comments |
| 17:52.13 | ``Erik | :) a bit much, perhaps *shrug* but I'm not gonna jump in and do anything right now, got other stuff to do |
| 17:52.43 | brlcad | hm, so i'm apparently chunking through at about 10% every 2 hours.. |
| 17:52.58 | brlcad | that means I have 16 hours to go .. oh joy |
| 17:53.09 | ``Erik | when rt and rtedge get wedged like that, the kill is in a wait4() call |
| 17:53.23 | poolio | ``Erik: a snippet of your code reminds me of some commit you corrected in my code earlier.... 8) |
| 17:53.49 | ``Erik | so I'm imagining that the fb process might not be releasing all the parent fd's or something |
| 17:53.59 | ``Erik | which snippet? O.o |
| 17:54.21 | ``Erik | adding '#include "bu.h"' or something? O.o :D |
| 17:55.18 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:55.19 | brlcad | bu_bomb("Choke! ack! gasp! wheeeeeeze.\n"); |
| 17:55.37 | brlcad | bu_bomb("choke, gasp, *croak*\n"); |
| 17:55.44 | brlcad | funny lee |
| 17:56.57 | ``Erik | heh, hopefully no one ever sees the output of a bu_bomb() *shrug* :) |
| 17:57.35 | ``Erik | hmmmm, liboptical/treetherm.c |
| 17:57.41 | ``Erik | sh_treetherm.c rather |
| 17:57.51 | brlcad | hence the addition of bu_exit() .. bu_bomb() are conditions that shouldn't ever be encountered |
| 17:58.45 | brlcad | yay, Heroes tonight |
| 17:59.22 | ``Erik | so clone can have "-c [num]" |
| 17:59.59 | ``Erik | if I can get my freakin' browser off of http://www.primitiveways.com/ that is |
| 18:06.03 | poolio | ``Erik: "silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope" |
| 18:09.14 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 18:09.42 | ``Erik | yes, in c90, it's illegal to declare a variable anywhere but the beginning of the scope (or block, if you like that word better) |
| 18:11.15 | ``Erik | try compiling with your CFLAGS containing something like '-Wall -W -Werror -ansi -pedantic' some time... it'll hurt you... not as bad as, say, splint, but it will :) |
| 18:13.23 | poolio | ``Erik: I know, I'm just saying you did the same thing with your last commit :) |
| 18:18.47 | ``Erik | 'crude c functionality'? |
| 18:18.49 | ``Erik | -c |
| 18:19.14 | poolio | jah |
| 18:19.17 | ``Erik | <-- not understanding |
| 18:19.22 | ``Erik | -c is a flag to the clone command |
| 18:19.33 | poolio | errr |
| 18:20.14 | poolio | I was just giving you a hard time for declaring a variable mid-scope |
| 18:20.41 | ``Erik | um, I don't declare in mid scope |
| 18:21.00 | ``Erik | curly brackets define new scope, I have curly's around that block |
| 18:21.23 | ``Erik | or, rather; show me where :) |
| 18:21.46 | poolio | ah durrrrr. |
| 18:22.04 | ``Erik | hum, speaking of |
| 18:22.18 | ``Erik | cmu, huh? do you know or know of a lee salzman? |
| 18:26.38 | ``Erik | !#~!@!~ fucker :( |
| 18:26.52 | ``Erik | is the new season already running? |
| 18:27.01 | brlcad | heh, for like 4 weeks dude |
| 18:27.09 | ``Erik | feck |
| 18:27.54 | ``Erik | bparker is downstairs in ed's office, btw... waiting on computer accounts I think, want anything relayed? |
| 18:28.14 | brlcad | my dvr actually screwed up the weekend I went to cali |
| 18:28.34 | brlcad | just pulled them off itunes instead |
| 18:28.44 | ``Erik | hm, like $2/ep? |
| 18:28.52 | brlcad | sure, "Hi Bob!" .. see him tomorrow probably |
| 18:29.14 | brlcad | and i'm gonna undo his chmod breakage |
| 18:29.45 | brlcad | probably can get away with #define fchmod _fchmod for winderz |
| 18:30.22 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, I think the twist for a lot of posix on winnt is the _ prefix :/ |
| 18:30.23 | brlcad | i'm about ready to get rid of it |
| 18:30.37 | ``Erik | and these days, we can probably assume dos based windows is irrelevant |
| 18:30.40 | brlcad | it's actually made me watch more tv than before now that I can watch what I want when I want |
| 18:30.48 | brlcad | thinking of just going itunes-only |
| 18:31.00 | brlcad | buy ala cart for the shows I care to watch |
| 18:31.09 | ``Erik | still drm damaged, though, no? |
| 18:31.15 | brlcad | calculated that it would definitely be cheaper overall |
| 18:32.03 | ``Erik | what, $40/mo opposed to $80? |
| 18:32.36 | poolio | ``Erik: nope, sorry. |
| 18:33.00 | brlcad | yeah the video is fuxored, though it can be burnt/ripped iirc |
| 18:33.01 | ``Erik | he probably graduated before you got there, hoolio :) |
| 18:33.11 | brlcad | not sure if anyone's cracked it outright like has been done for music |
| 18:33.36 | brlcad | 140/mo and you don't have a dvr? |
| 18:33.42 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548743D2.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 18:33.50 | brlcad | that must be a handful of porn channels |
| 18:34.02 | ``Erik | heh, no porn, ... well, not advertised as porn |
| 18:34.11 | ``Erik | I think I have like showtime or hbo or smething |
| 18:34.19 | ``Erik | that I've watched, like, once in the last 4 years |
| 18:34.52 | brlcad | i think dvr is about 80/mo + whatever base service, so usually 100-120/mo |
| 18:35.23 | brlcad | i used to have all the movie chans.. sure didn't cost 140/mo |
| 18:35.41 | ``Erik | and I got the digital package for 'discovery wings' and 'bbc', but 'discovery wings' change to 'discovery military' (and I was a huge fan of the history and 'learning to fly' shows), and the bbc here is mostly crap like trading space and shit, not the onslaught of monty python, black adder, red dwarf, etc in memphis |
| 18:36.04 | ``Erik | and of course the cable modem |
| 18:36.12 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 18:36.15 | brlcad | w/ internet |
| 18:36.17 | brlcad | that's the diff |
| 18:36.26 | ``Erik | that's probably $50 of it |
| 18:36.30 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:36.33 | ``Erik | like $45 service and $5 rental |
| 18:36.34 | brlcad | that's more like it |
| 18:37.52 | ``Erik | doxy in libbu is good, right? |
| 18:37.58 | brlcad | afaik, yeah |
| 18:38.06 | brlcad | almost complete even |
| 18:38.40 | ``Erik | I hate to say it, but I think javadoc stomps doxygen for html output :/ |
| 18:40.28 | poolio | people here use Doxygen for a lot of projects |
| 18:41.52 | brlcad | with the defaults it does .. default html output sucks hairy ones; but it's fairly configurable and can be made to look as good/better |
| 18:59.07 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 19:07.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: convenience wrappers for comparing vls's |
| 19:17.04 | ``Erik | make -s in src/conv puts me in a beavis and butthead mood O.o |
| 19:19.44 | ``Erik | :w |
| 19:20.15 | ``Erik | I mean, uh, ^C-w or something |
| 19:23.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: silly coder, semicolons don't go there |
| 19:30.40 | brlcad | ``Erik: is the bu_vls_strcmp() one really needed? |
| 19:30.59 | brlcad | I'm in the process of eliminating most instances of strcmp for flawfinder |
| 19:31.19 | ``Erik | not particularly, but the pattern is in several places (5 that I've noticed) |
| 19:31.22 | brlcad | with vls, you always know the length of both |
| 19:32.07 | brlcad | you mean pattern where that define is made? |
| 19:32.21 | ``Erik | the strcmp(bu_vls_addr(), bu_vls_addr()) |
| 19:32.27 | brlcad | ah |
| 19:32.59 | ``Erik | and I searched through vls for a bit looking for the compare functions, seemed there ought to be one |
| 19:33.34 | ``Erik | <-- working clone into being vls heavy, has the 'other 4' ready for commit to use the macro... |
| 19:33.57 | ``Erik | if it's excessive, I can up -AC them instead of commit |
| 19:34.02 | brlcad | should probably make the corresponding bu_vls_strcmp() func then, so it can do the validity checking like the other vls str* funcs |
| 19:34.13 | ``Erik | yeah, I was thinking of doing that |
| 19:34.16 | brlcad | yeah, just nobody refactored to create one yet |
| 19:34.43 | ``Erik | heh, I was kinda thinking of trying to optimize them by doing length comparisons first, but then ya don't know if -1 or 1 is the correct return value |
| 19:35.08 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:35.33 | ``Erik | even though every use is ==0 or !=0 so far... someone will try pushing it through qsort or something eventually heh |
| 19:36.02 | ``Erik | validation would be good, I was just taking a baby step that direction for now |
| 19:36.56 | ``Erik | do I commit the consumer files, or back out the macros? |
| 19:37.33 | brlcad | yeah, that'd be a freaking hard bug to find |
| 19:37.50 | brlcad | whatever suits you |
| 19:38.13 | brlcad | won't matter until time to release :) |
| 19:38.28 | ``Erik | <-- kinda prefers completeness for core functionality |
| 19:38.56 | brlcad | both probably need to happen, so it's just a matter of which first :) |
| 19:39.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm-generic.c mged/cmd.c mged/share.c mged/vrlink.c): move to using the new bu_vls_strcmp macro |
| 19:39.28 | ``Erik | clone.c needs testing, I've done a lot in there |
| 19:39.40 | brlcad | wonder if flawfinder will bitch on bu_vls_strcmp .. it seems braindead in its string matching sometimes |
| 19:40.06 | brlcad | i noticed that it complains about some macros that call strcmp that it completely gets wrong |
| 19:40.47 | ``Erik | hm, [^_a-zA-Z0-9] should alleviate that :/ |
| 19:41.23 | ``Erik | unless it's pushing it through cpp first |
| 19:41.28 | brlcad | yeah, I think it "tries" to determine context and just gets confused by cpp stuff |
| 19:44.27 | brlcad | g'dammit .. msvc doesn't seem to have fchmod at all.. only _chmod |
| 19:49.19 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: change get_name() to return a bu_vls instead of a char* |
| 19:53.45 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 19:54.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs): |
| 19:54.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: wrong direction bob.. working to remove _all_ instances of _WIN32 not in a core |
| 19:54.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: library. besides, using chmod() is actually has a fundamental race condition |
| 19:54.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: flaw that is a security violation; and causes the new flawfinder regression test |
| 19:54.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: to fail. hopefully msvc has _fchmod() like the other posix funcs it supports |
| 19:54.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: prefixed. if not, need to add a libbu compatibility routine. |
| 19:56.03 | ``Erik | (of course, if your'e using win32, race condition security might not be your biggest priority *cough*) |
| 19:56.57 | MinuteElectron | Windows is awesome. |
| 19:59.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: retain 2nd (3rd? 87th?) number if no -c option is given |
| 19:59.45 | brlcad | aww, now that's freaking cool |
| 19:59.47 | brlcad | "I used to live on the 23rd floor of a high-rise in Chicago. Groceries were never a problem. The 1st floor of the building was a grocery store and they delivered with purchases of $20 or more (excluding alcohol and cigarettes). Likewise all the local grocery stores would deliver to your apartment free of charge with a minimum purchase. You could phone or fax your grocery order in and pay for it on delivery (even pay with a check) or you could go |
| 20:00.27 | MinuteElectron | It got cut of at "you could g" |
| 20:00.40 | dtidrow_work | yeah |
| 20:00.46 | brlcad | or you could go down and select your items, pay for them, and one of the box boys would lug the stuff up for you." |
| 20:01.11 | MinuteElectron | Cool indeed. |
| 20:04.51 | ``Erik | shoot, if it was that close, just stop by every day on the way home |
| 20:04.56 | ``Erik | mmmm fresh veggies every day O.o |
| 20:05.37 | brlcad | ``Erik: presuming you ever needed to leave home |
| 20:05.38 | ``Erik | everyone still crunching numbers on an xmp, raise your hands. |
| 20:05.39 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:06.24 | ``Erik | what's the xmp shtuff mucking with? O.o |
| 20:06.28 | brlcad | even if anyone HAS an XMP that will still power up, I'd imagine that it's probably possible to get an updated posix lib on there that would remove the need for the hacks |
| 20:06.40 | ``Erik | just readability? |
| 20:06.46 | brlcad | it's all throughout |
| 20:06.48 | ``Erik | (heh... "just"...) |
| 20:07.21 | brlcad | some readability, a lot of #if chunks, and some code that needs updating if I'm to get flawfinder below level four |
| 20:07.29 | brlcad | so it's finally become a maintenance burden |
| 20:07.36 | dtidrow_work | gee, my laptop prob. has more performance than a XMP |
| 20:08.17 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: almost guaranteed -- computed it once -- iirc, the Apple "Cube" that came out about 8 years ago was almost the same speed |
| 20:08.32 | brlcad | er, maybe 6 years |
| 20:08.41 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:08.58 | brlcad | "cray in a coffee can" |
| 20:09.04 | brlcad | fanless even |
| 20:09.32 | dtidrow_work | did you see the article about the 'unlocked' Athlon X2 5000+ that recently came out? |
| 20:10.02 | ``Erik | didn't the case crack and become discolored on the cube? |
| 20:10.09 | dtidrow_work | yuo can overclock it to 3.1GHz without tweaking the voltage, or dissapating much more power |
| 20:11.47 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah, constant heating and cooling would cause microfractures in the acrylic/plastic for some of them .. barely visible, but not good for the image when the visual look of those boxes was one of their best selling points :) |
| 20:12.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: don't assume the suffix starts with a '.' |
| 20:12.38 | ``Erik | with jobs stickuptheass about the industrial design of products, that was a suprising... feature |
| 20:12.56 | ``Erik | with a dell or gateway, people woulda just said "meh, they do that" |
| 20:13.20 | brlcad | hmm.. heh "While your new website seems a little slicker and is probably more functional it lacks the patriotic feel of the original." ... "please bring back the eagle" |
| 20:13.34 | MinuteElectron | bah |
| 20:13.36 | brlcad | the eagle is intentionally deprecated |
| 20:14.05 | ``Erik | echo "the new site sucks, black background is sooooo 1997" | mail -s 'feedback' brlcad@brlcad.org |
| 20:14.06 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 20:14.08 | brlcad | interesting that it was one of the first comments, though :) |
| 20:14.29 | MinuteElectron | Did you ever get LDAP running? |
| 20:15.25 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: yeah, ldap is running .. i just need to focus better -- should now just be a matter of hooking the web apps into it configwise |
| 20:15.37 | brlcad | i'm assuming that was the problem before where drupal was being pissy with it |
| 20:15.55 | brlcad | but now it's verified working, and I even kinda understand it now .. |
| 20:16.01 | MinuteElectron | Oh, sounds good. |
| 20:16.29 | brlcad | i just needed a diversion after hacking on it for half a day and haven't gotten back on it |
| 20:20.21 | brlcad | ah, interesting, cray was also pseudo-big endian |
| 20:20.39 | brlcad | ints were big, floats were proprietary format |
| 20:21.07 | ``Erik | ieee754 came far later than 2's compliment |
| 20:22.12 | brlcad | with a hardware pin on the cray el to toggle between big and little |
| 20:30.25 | MinuteElectron | Whoever designed the gallery2 skinning system needs shooting. |
| 20:44.41 | brlcad | can only go to user www |
| 20:44.55 | brlcad | (chown) |
| 20:45.28 | brlcad | if don't want to type commands over and over via sudo, can sudo -s -u www |
| 20:46.04 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, right. Thanks. |
| 20:46.13 | MinuteElectron | I thought you didn't watch the logs ;) |
| 20:46.27 | brlcad | I don't watch user logs |
| 20:46.34 | brlcad | but I do get sudo notifications |
| 20:46.46 | MinuteElectron | Oh, I must be annoying then :P |
| 20:46.55 | brlcad | ctrl-l is my friend :) |
| 20:47.05 | MinuteElectron | :D |
| 20:47.43 | brlcad | I get a lot more than sudo notifications, not a big deal |
| 20:47.58 | MinuteElectron | ahh, kk |
| 20:48.24 | brlcad | just about any security/access/system-level related event |
| 21:00.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs): |
| 21:00.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the old cray cos and unicos code for the cray xmp and friends finally became a |
| 21:00.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: burden to maintain while resolving various flawfinder issues. remove the old |
| 21:00.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: code, particularly that which wasn't __STDC__. however, intentionally leave the |
| 21:00.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: code for calculating byteoffsets and converting float formats to/from network |
| 21:00.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: order .. could still come in handy at some point down the road. |
| 21:02.33 | MinuteElectron | Back to Plan A. |
| 21:07.21 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: how hard is it to swap right and left menus on the site so that the config matches on the right/left side correctly? |
| 21:07.29 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (21 files in 8 dirs): removed the non-ansi/stc compliant noalias.h and noalias-prag.h headers that were used with the cray (and alliant) to make pragma decls before loops. made obsolete long ago with the move to ansi compliance. |
| 21:08.14 | MinuteElectron | I could do it with little effort. Give me five minutes or so. |
| 21:08.17 | brlcad | cool |
| 21:09.27 | brlcad | I'm also thinking to maybe change the header to not require alpha transparency .. i (annoyingly) got a few IE6 complaints about it rendering badly already |
| 21:09.42 | brlcad | more prevalent that I thought still apparently |
| 21:11.58 | MinuteElectron | I will look into pngfix again, I've tried it before, but it didn't work. |
| 21:12.54 | MinuteElectron | Also there are methods of single color transparency, but I'm sure you know about them. |
| 21:13.05 | MinuteElectron | I can also try converting images to gif, that might work. |
| 21:13.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-pex.c: whoops, here's to reviewing all commit e-mails even when I make them.. apparently edited out the wrong line for noalias.h |
| 21:13.34 | brlcad | pngfix requires javascript iirc, no? |
| 21:13.42 | brlcad | I think these are systems that have scripting turned off |
| 21:14.15 | MinuteElectron | :( |
| 21:14.24 | brlcad | I was thinking of redoing the header regardless so that the menu can expand verically too |
| 21:14.27 | MinuteElectron | Ok, GIF it is, I will sort it out after left\right columns |
| 21:14.41 | brlcad | (or you can, have at it) :) |
| 21:15.36 | brlcad | I'm thinking that it might actually look even better to do what's done on the right side panel with the ovals for the menu, just not beveling the bottom two corners |
| 21:16.01 | brlcad | that would let it expand horizontally and vertically, and could be more readily tied into drupal's menu management |
| 21:16.19 | brlcad | looks like atm it's ignoring/not using drupal's built-in menu management, just having the menu hard-coded |
| 21:16.47 | brlcad | maybe something similar for the bevel for the two search tabs too, so they expand correctly |
| 21:17.03 | MinuteElectron | The problem with tieing the menu system management in with Drupal is the wiki anf gallery2. |
| 21:17.14 | brlcad | ah, true dat |
| 21:17.29 | brlcad | fair nuff |
| 21:17.42 | brlcad | but still would be nice if it expanded correctly :) |
| 21:18.09 | brlcad | I got horizontal working, just need veritcle (which means making the bevel automatic like on the other boxes) |
| 21:19.50 | MinuteElectron | The problem with vertical is the background images. |
| 21:20.39 | brlcad | ? |
| 21:20.41 | brlcad | howso? |
| 21:20.49 | MinuteElectron | oh, wait |
| 21:20.50 | brlcad | it's got a solid background color |
| 21:20.52 | MinuteElectron | you got rid of them lol |
| 21:22.28 | brlcad | the way the bezels are now, it's a one pixel white hilight on left, top-left, and top edge; and then with a dark gray 1 pixel edge on the bottom, bottom-right, and right edges |
| 21:22.43 | brlcad | that pretty much translates directly to the trick done for the right panel bezel |
| 21:23.14 | MinuteElectron | oh cool |
| 21:23.15 | brlcad | just that one is 3 pixels thick and includes bottom-left and top-right corners |
| 21:23.32 | brlcad | completely image-less |
| 21:23.41 | brlcad | just css tricks |
| 21:24.16 | MinuteElectron | Why is it you want vertical expansion? |
| 21:24.36 | brlcad | so it's not reliant upon expected font sizes |
| 21:24.49 | MinuteElectron | ahh, ok |
| 21:24.51 | brlcad | font size isn't guaranteed with any browser, user can override |
| 21:25.23 | brlcad | cmd-shift-+ on a mac in safari or firefox will dynamically adjust the size |
| 21:26.55 | MinuteElectron | hmm |
| 21:27.08 | brlcad | example: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/fontsize.png |
| 21:27.23 | MinuteElectron | yeah |
| 21:27.24 | brlcad | everything resizes correctly example the menu because of that fixed height |
| 21:34.26 | MinuteElectron | ok, this is weird |
| 21:35.34 | brlcad | don't know if you noticed, but I tweaked a lot of the style settings on the section headers |
| 21:36.15 | MinuteElectron | yes |
| 21:36.58 | MinuteElectron | blocks fixed |
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| 21:43.14 | MinuteElectron | gifs don't work well with some of the sliding transparency you have |
| 21:45.16 | *** join/#brlcad poolio__ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 21:49.36 | brlcad | yep, I know .. I was thinking entirely changing that so it basically doesn't need any transparency |
| 21:50.03 | MinuteElectron | aww, ok |
| 21:50.33 | poolio__ | geez. my internet is out of control...sorry |
| 21:50.58 | brlcad | i think it's pretty cool, but not worth it if it's going to look like total ass on a major subset of visitors |
| 21:51.35 | brlcad | alternatively, could leave it like it is, and just have a separate fixed header with no truck for the lame browsers |
| 21:52.04 | MinuteElectron | It would be possible to use IE if statements to do so. |
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| 23:03.05 | Maloeran | This is unexpected. This chunk of code performs 18 times faster with -O2 -mtune=nocona in comparison to binaries produced without optimisation |
| 23:03.18 | Maloeran | I had never seen such a gap before, I didn't even think it possible |
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| 00:42.34 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r293 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/irClientEvents.cpp): Some minor typo fixes. |
| 01:52.04 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
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| 06:55.38 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r294 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientEvents.cpp: Fixed two bugs with eIRCChannelUserModeSet. |
| 06:58.06 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r295 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: Found a bug in removeChannelFromUser(), but didnt fix it. JeffM: your favorite, erase(). |
| 07:11.49 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03mm_202 * r296 10/trunk/libirc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fixed a stupid spelling mistake, Permisions -> Permissions. |
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| 08:13.57 | brlcad | minute-ssh: made a slew of changes to the header, trying out various different styles/approaches |
| 08:14.58 | brlcad | minute-ssh: the menu expands nicely now and I think it looks a little better, but I had a problems getting the bezel to wok on windows for some reason |
| 08:15.09 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-084-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 08:15.31 | brlcad | changed the images too -- now using gifs for the background images with the colors corrected to the color_palette images |
| 08:17.08 | brlcad | didn't change the title, byline, or axis yet to make a precomposited image for broken browsers |
| 08:17.51 | brlcad | and still have to fix the search tabs so that they expand correctly now too .. those should be the last items that need to be tweaked to allow resizing |
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| 09:33.18 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: I already changed the x,y,z axis to gif :) |
| 09:38.24 | MinuteElectron | And you must have a lot more patience than I do. |
| 09:39.07 | MinuteElectron | The new design is definitely an improvement. |
| 10:47.33 | *** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178072209.adsl.alicedsl.de) | |
| 11:10.03 | *** join/#brlcad Apathy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
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| 12:13.06 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net | |
| 13:50.57 | Maloeran | This is so absurd. The federal, provincial and municipal governments are preparing a proposal to move the United Nations to... Montreal! |
| 13:51.06 | Maloeran | The odds of success are so astronomically low |
| 13:53.58 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: I don't think it's so much patience as it is my obsessive-compulsive tendancies .. there are still several things on the layout that will grate me until they're fixed :-) |
| 13:54.48 | MinuteElectron | ahh, allright |
| 14:27.42 | ``Erik | heh, "come to montreal! we don't have any building worth flying in to!" |
| 14:27.43 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 14:28.27 | ``Erik | and every translated statement will require yet another translation to french *cough* |
| 14:28.30 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 14:33.14 | Maloeran | Eh, exactly. And who's dreaming that the United States would let the UN go away? It seems our governments have money to throw away on futile and delusionary projects |
| 14:34.35 | Maloeran | Canada also wanted to host the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor despites providing a tiny fraction of the funding, and walked out when France won the hosting bid |
| 14:35.57 | ``Erik | damn uppity canucks and their insane nationalism |
| 14:35.58 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:37.39 | Maloeran | Yup! :) |
| 14:56.05 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 16:24.44 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 16:55.45 | butti | hello |
| 16:56.38 | butti | ``Erik: are you an american? |
| 17:04.42 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) | |
| 17:05.08 | yukonbob | hello, whirled. |
| 17:35.45 | ``Erik | Dr. Calvin Rickson, a scientist from Ohio State University has invented a bra that keeps women's breasts from jiggling and prevents the nipples from pushing through the fabric when cold weather sets in. |
| 17:35.46 | ``Erik | At a news conference, after announcing the invention, a large group of men took Dr. Rickson outside and kicked the s#$% out of him. |
| 17:35.48 | ``Erik | butti: yes |
| 17:36.27 | MinuteElectron | lawl |
| 17:36.31 | ``Erik | but not one of the vocal idiot minority that most non-americans assume represent all americans, sorry |
| 17:37.19 | butti | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.22 | ``Erik | I don't have american flags on my house or car, I don't say "buy american, just because", I don't wear baseball hats (or watch sports), I don't drink piss like 'miller' or 'bud', I don't believe that if you don't speak english, you should get out, ... |
| 17:37.45 | butti | lovely |
| 17:37.50 | ``Erik | <-- lived in japan for 3 years, lived on the canuck border most of his life, drives a german car, ... :) |
| 17:38.17 | ``Erik | and I am extremely displeased with the current administration |
| 17:38.59 | butti | Im always worry about americans..so hard to live with them |
| 17:39.19 | ``Erik | you live with people from the US? |
| 17:39.32 | butti | no, I mean all the nation |
| 17:39.36 | ``Erik | heh |
| 17:39.46 | ``Erik | <-- points out that texans are NOT americans, they're texans. |
| 17:39.48 | ``Erik | damnit. |
| 17:39.52 | butti | hehe |
| 17:40.03 | ``Erik | that'd be like quebec being in control of canada |
| 17:40.20 | ``Erik | or jutland being in control of germany |
| 17:40.25 | butti | 3 times i hat american lovers..they was all left-liberal |
| 17:40.36 | ``Erik | or ireland being in control of UK |
| 17:40.54 | ``Erik | :D |
| 17:41.05 | butti | hehe |
| 17:41.09 | ``Erik | (and the one of my analogies that doesn't fit is probably the germany/jutland one) |
| 17:42.17 | butti | but this means, the left-liberal are not bindingly |
| 17:42.34 | butti | i dont know nothing about jutland |
| 17:44.14 | butti | I mean, thats why such a persol like Sarkozy, who divorse with her wife is so spectacular. he is right front as rapublicans do |
| 17:44.44 | butti | you know what i mean |
| 17:45.47 | butti | where are you living right now ``Erik ? |
| 17:47.57 | ``Erik | I live just north of baltimore, ont he east coast... but I mostly grew up north of seattle |
| 17:48.54 | butti | ok seatle must be cool, that what ive hear about this city |
| 17:49.02 | ``Erik | *nod* I miss it |
| 17:51.10 | butti | but you have alway sun in baltimore, here becomes quit dizzy ...brrr, cold and gray |
| 17:51.17 | butti | grey |
| 17:54.11 | butti | now we have a new goverment in Poland, I think the soldiers will come backs from Irak now, I hope so |
| 17:56.18 | ``Erik | <-- prefers cold and grey |
| 17:56.36 | butti | the old kaczynsky Klones wanted to stay in irak becouse: "we should do this shit till the end, becouse we promised that" |
| 18:00.00 | butti | no, I defintly prefer sun, which I didnt see this year (seating on front of display) |
| 18:03.50 | ``Erik | hum |
| 18:03.52 | ``Erik | what is "the end"? |
| 18:04.43 | ``Erik | I understand war as an activity between people, and one submits... terrorism is an idea/tactic... there can never be a 'victory' because an idea cannot capitulate |
| 18:04.48 | MinuteElectron | cold + bright FTW |
| 18:05.05 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:06.23 | ``Erik | so, uh... tag and kick out? |
| 18:08.25 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:09.14 | ``Erik | are you going to do it? I don't have a -STABLE checkout right now, and I dunno if I want to play with rtag right now, I'm feelin' a little too... calm :) |
| 18:10.04 | butti | ``Erik: exactly |
| 18:10.24 | butti | hi brlcad :) |
| 18:16.33 | brlcad | howdy butti |
| 18:16.46 | brlcad | ``Erik: I'll tag it |
| 18:24.45 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-084-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 18:31.01 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) | |
| 20:05.57 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: MFC |
| 20:11.38 | brlcad | jeez |
| 20:11.49 | dtidrow_work | ? |
| 20:12.03 | ``Erik | sorry, but it's a slew of stuff that big D has been begging for |
| 20:12.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 20:12.13 | brlcad | now if that don't compile cleanly.. i'm gonna just point |
| 20:12.22 | ``Erik | oh, it'll compile cleanly... I hope |
| 20:12.27 | brlcad | mmhmm |
| 20:12.39 | brlcad | you get to do the irix build |
| 20:12.40 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:12.40 | ``Erik | if it breaks it, I'll do the distcheck and upload |
| 20:12.43 | ``Erik | !#~@!~ |
| 20:12.48 | dtidrow_work | famous last words... |
| 20:13.10 | brlcad | so should I announce the new command, or wait a release? |
| 20:13.14 | ``Erik | um |
| 20:13.21 | brlcad | it's not yet in the notes |
| 20:13.29 | ``Erik | it's missing mirroring and picking the rotation point |
| 20:13.30 | brlcad | i was going to wait |
| 20:13.38 | brlcad | okay, sounds like a waiter then |
| 20:13.46 | ``Erik | and dwayne has requested reworking so it respects instancing |
| 20:14.02 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: in the process (literally minutes away from tagging) and he's committing "MFC" :) |
| 20:14.05 | ``Erik | I told him that'd be considerably more effort than the other little things, so he's cool with letting it slide |
| 20:14.22 | ``Erik | (thus the innocent whistle) |
| 20:14.53 | brlcad | hey i don't mind, just hope it compiles cleanly |
| 20:14.55 | ``Erik | but this hits more than 50% of the clone "problems" in that email |
| 20:15.20 | ``Erik | I'd hope it'd be more apt to compile cleanly than before, I moved from system commands to libbu commands for the most part |
| 20:16.50 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r297 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: vectors return an iterator on erase |
| 20:18.25 | ``Erik | so are we going to push for a halloween release, too? |
| 20:35.48 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: added release notes and updated version for 7.10.4, beginning of final release preparations |
| 20:36.17 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/include/conf/PATCH: update to final 7.10.4 version |
| 20:39.13 | ``Erik | I d'no |
| 20:39.17 | ``Erik | should I try compiling it before I commit? |
| 20:40.01 | poolio__ | oo release?\ |
| 20:40.09 | brlcad | that's why there's actually two distcheck tests :P |
| 20:40.31 | minute | You get to use the news thing on the new website. ;) |
| 20:41.15 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: back out the bu_vls_strcmp() macro as STABLE bu.h trails... a lot... |
| 20:41.52 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: massive changelog update from 2007-05-16 to today, preparing for the big 7.10.4 release |
| 20:42.19 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now | |
| 20:42.29 | poolio__ | Cheers :) |
| 20:43.07 | brlcad | poolio__: beset is actually listed in this release, but haven't made the bigger announcement yet -- waiting till 7.12 |
| 20:44.07 | ``Erik | what are the triggers for 7.12.0? endgame, archer and bombadier? |
| 20:44.53 | brlcad | the triggers are usually either a major new feature in itself, or the accummulation of major features since the previous minor rev |
| 20:45.24 | brlcad | endgame wouldn't likely be a trigger |
| 20:45.39 | ``Erik | I meant those as a boolean expression |
| 20:45.56 | brlcad | maybe bombardier if it has automatic crash reporting with a gui and several apps with signal handlers |
| 20:45.58 | ``Erik | and when ya get close to it, usually ya pick the actual things to trip it... :D |
| 20:46.02 | poolio__ | brlcad: errr why is beset even listed? |
| 20:46.32 | brlcad | because it's in the release |
| 20:46.33 | ``Erik | to embarrass you, ben :D |
| 20:46.42 | brlcad | it will compile and be installed |
| 20:46.44 | poolio__ | what the christ. |
| 20:46.49 | brlcad | and be on thousands of people's machines |
| 20:46.53 | ``Erik | it's important for porters |
| 20:46.58 | brlcad | whether they know it or use it is another matter.. ;) |
| 20:47.04 | ``Erik | some of us need to manage lists of installed files |
| 20:47.34 | brlcad | poolio__: it's effectively zero-maintenance, and might even inspire someone else to pick up where you left off |
| 20:47.57 | poolio__ | Alrighty. Just seems like it won't be too useful to anyone, except maybe some code examples. |
| 20:48.11 | brlcad | that's why it's not "announced" .. just in the feature list |
| 20:48.12 | poolio__ | I guess I should be saying thanks and stop whining :) |
| 20:48.28 | brlcad | any "user-visible" change is supposed to be listed in the NEWS file with a 1-liner |
| 20:48.51 | brlcad | that certainly qualifies as 'user visible' given it will compile and be installed |
| 20:49.52 | poolio__ | How often do you guys do releases? Wasn't it supposed to be monthly? |
| 20:50.09 | ``Erik | it was, but politics intervened. |
| 20:50.17 | brlcad | yeah, supposed to be .. but this is a "major integration" release |
| 20:50.23 | poolio__ | ah |
| 20:50.24 | brlcad | coordinated with the main analyses user |
| 20:50.30 | brlcad | s/user/code/ |
| 20:50.32 | ``Erik | <-- is hoping for 7.10.6 on halloween |
| 20:50.48 | poolio__ | heh, that's only like a week away |
| 20:51.00 | ``Erik | yes, but stable went cold quite a while ago |
| 20:51.05 | ``Erik | and head kept marching along |
| 20:51.10 | brlcad | head is already 7.11 |
| 20:51.17 | ``Erik | ah |
| 20:51.31 | ``Erik | after 7.10.4 is tagged, I expect to see a huge MFC |
| 20:51.40 | brlcad | this release should really probably be 7.12, it's not in the spirit of patches.. there were significant features |
| 20:51.52 | brlcad | especially since 7.10 |
| 20:51.57 | brlcad | (.0) |
| 20:52.26 | ``Erik | (MFC is "merge from current" for the non-bsd geeks) |
| 20:53.13 | brlcad | ~mfc |
| 20:53.14 | ibot | Microsoft Foundation Classes, or crap |
| 20:53.30 | brlcad | ~mfc is also Merge From Current |
| 20:53.31 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 20:53.41 | brlcad | ~mfc is also a Major Fscking Change |
| 20:53.41 | ibot | brlcad: okay |
| 20:54.02 | ``Erik | ~mfc |
| 20:54.02 | ibot | Microsoft Foundation Classes, or crap. Merge From Current, or a Major Fscking Change |
| 20:54.41 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@toroon63-1177845977.sdsl.bell.ca) | |
| 20:54.45 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/freebsd-glossary.html#MFC-GLOSSARY |
| 20:54.47 | poolio__ | speak of the devil...haha |
| 20:55.04 | poolio__ | well congrats on almost getting the release, I must do work then an ECE lab :\ |
| 20:55.07 | brlcad | yukonbob: are you the devil? |
| 20:55.24 | dtidrow_work | ah, that's what MFC is... |
| 20:55.42 | yukonbob | I might be, but I can't read what's not in my log -- what did I just miss ;) |
| 20:55.52 | ``Erik | (sorry, been a fbsd dork since '98 or '99) |
| 20:56.00 | dtidrow_work | Microsoft Foundation Classes was the only one I could come up with, and I knew that was wrong... |
| 20:56.18 | dtidrow_work | Major Fscking Change is best ;-) |
| 20:56.29 | ``Erik | fscking a |
| 20:57.36 | ``Erik | main fuel control? mine field clearance? minimum fault coverage? mutli-frequency code? multiple flight computer? :D http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MFC |
| 20:57.50 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:58.40 | brlcad | arg... a slew of itcl init errors during make distcheck that I hadn't noticed |
| 20:59.13 | brlcad | will have to test mged and company to make sure they actually init properly on install |
| 21:00.14 | brlcad | i had them fixed at one point |
| 21:00.25 | brlcad | it should work prior to install now |
| 21:00.32 | yukonbob | is this for the pending x.x.4? |
| 21:00.37 | brlcad | probably something with the out-of-dir dist build |
| 21:01.01 | brlcad | I think the auto_path logic that was added assumes being able to locate the src dir |
| 21:02.57 | brlcad | ./configure --enable-all --disable-opengl --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 |
| 21:06.05 | ``Erik | can you scp that to the failing file server in /r/tmp/ ? |
| 21:06.13 | ``Erik | or tell me where on that dang sgi it is? |
| 21:07.53 | brlcad | it was in my home in brlcad.STABLE, but coping now |
| 21:08.33 | brlcad | man it must already be choking .. getting about 100kb/s write rate |
| 21:10.13 | ``Erik | um, that, uh, other program is running |
| 21:10.18 | ``Erik | stresstesting the disks, heh :D |
| 21:10.52 | brlcad | my other scp is never gonna finish before it explodes |
| 21:10.56 | brlcad | done copying |
| 21:11.11 | ``Erik | it should, I'm only like 3.5 gigs in |
| 21:11.43 | ``Erik | chmod pls? |
| 21:13.08 | ``Erik | okie, rewt it is |
| 21:13.23 | brlcad | done |
| 21:13.36 | ``Erik | heh, I'd already chmod'd it as root :) |
| 21:18.33 | brlcad | tagging |
| 21:19.05 | ``Erik | yay, configure: error: `CPPFLAGS' has changed since the previous run: |
| 21:28.10 | starseeker | Is the tarball hiding anywhere? |
| 21:28.34 | ``Erik | yeah, that'd probably be the easiest :) -rSTABLE |
| 21:46.21 | starseeker | <announcer-voice>Annnnnnnd here we go :-)</announcer-voice> |
| 22:03.40 | yukonbob | so, is 7.10.4 tagged and bagged? |
| 22:05.31 | brlcad | howdy starseeker |
| 22:05.56 | starseeker | brlcad: howdy :-) |
| 22:06.00 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, it's tagged, rel-7-10-4 |
| 22:06.18 | yukonbob | nice -- /me will grab as -current, and try with his build system... |
| 22:11.48 | brlcad | cool |
| 22:12.08 | yukonbob | brlcad: btw, what's the devil ref. above? |
| 22:13.52 | starseeker | yukonbob: Do you use FreeBSD? |
| 22:14.31 | yukonbob | it's not my primary, but yes... |
| 22:17.25 | yukonbob | ?Is a reference to the Beastie? |
| 22:17.30 | yukonbob | (chuck)? |
| 22:18.11 | yukonbob | anyway -- will find out later -- I'm at end of battery, and need to head home... will report 7.10.4 results later... ciao all.. |
| 22:18.31 | brlcad | yukonbob: i'm frankly not sure .. just funny timing with poolio's comment |
| 22:18.42 | yukonbob | what was poolios comment... |
| 22:18.57 | brlcad | "speak of the devil...haha" .. after you joined :) |
| 22:19.08 | yukonbob | this is probably so drawn out the funny is all evaporated... |
| 22:19.29 | brlcad | i'm not sure it was ever funny to anyone but me at the moment it was written ;) |
| 22:26.09 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-12.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 22:31.54 | *** join/#brlcad Darkwell (i=gcqA3aao@c2.a108.sto.bahnhof.net) | |
| 22:32.47 | Darkwell | hello |
| 22:32.51 | Darkwell | what license does brlcad have ? |
| 22:33.09 | brlcad | predominantly LGPL |
| 22:33.15 | Darkwell | I see |
| 22:33.19 | brlcad | BSD on the build system and a few of the tools |
| 22:33.28 | brlcad | but otherwise, pretty much LGPL |
| 22:33.41 | brlcad | details in the COPYING file in the source distribution |
| 22:34.20 | Darkwell | and for a noob like me , I wonder does brlcad suit to create materials to use for cnc production ? |
| 22:34.46 | brlcad | hm, for creating the basic geometry, sure |
| 22:34.54 | brlcad | but for creating the CNC code, no not really |
| 22:35.02 | brlcad | for that, maybe something like gcam |
| 22:35.25 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:36.06 | Darkwell | but arent there tools I can use to convert to gcodes etc |
| 22:36.21 | brlcad | brl-cad is a solid modeling system, so the models can generally work very well for machining when modeled correctly, but there's presently not a g-code exporter or drivers for any particular cnc device, just simple stl and dxf exporters (among other formats) |
| 22:36.45 | brlcad | sure, there are some .. can't vouch for their quality .. and they'renot a part of brl-cad |
| 22:36.46 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:36.56 | Darkwell | I am not familiar with those stuff yet |
| 22:37.19 | Darkwell | I am planning to famliliarize with programs and tools for future educations |
| 22:37.35 | Darkwell | I don't want to waste ,my time in trying to figure how programs work |
| 22:39.05 | brlcad | there is a diagram on the website that sort of shows the CAD markets that brl-cad is currently best-suited towards |
| 22:39.22 | brlcad | http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 22:39.27 | starseeker | aha - OK portage, what were you complaining about... |
| 22:39.30 | Darkwell | ok thank you |
| 22:40.06 | brlcad | Darkwell: as the diagram (hopefully) shows you, we are heavy into the CAE aspects of CAD, and only partially overlap into CADD and MCAD domains |
| 22:40.25 | brlcad | that overlaps basically amounts to our general solid modeling and data representation support as well as rendering and visualization |
| 22:40.54 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:41.02 | Darkwell | that isnt bad at all |
| 22:41.15 | brlcad | validation of models, CSG support, supporting analysis and development |
| 22:41.31 | Darkwell | if I get this right , it means I can draw objects in brlcad to see what tthey would look like |
| 22:41.45 | brlcad | but not really much support for direct ties into manufacturing and design processes, especially concept work |
| 22:41.55 | brlcad | yeah, sure |
| 22:41.58 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:42.11 | starseeker | showshot.c:98: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function strcpy |
| 22:42.29 | starseeker | showshot.c:122: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function strlen |
| 22:42.34 | brlcad | but not easily using a 2D drafting, ala AutoCAD (it encompases the CADD domain) .. you'd be using 3D methods |
| 22:42.48 | starseeker | coswin.c:104: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function malloc |
| 22:42.57 | brlcad | starseeker: just missing #include <string.h> |
| 22:43.05 | starseeker | Ah, OK |
| 22:43.28 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:43.37 | Darkwell | so its 3d |
| 22:43.44 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 22:43.47 | brlcad | 3d solid modeling |
| 22:44.21 | brlcad | akin to the catia, unigraphics, pro/e markets, but with much much MUCH smaller development budget ;) |
| 22:44.51 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:45.07 | brlcad | here's a screenshot: http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg |
| 22:45.45 | Darkwell | looks like some kind of raytracer |
| 22:45.53 | brlcad | basic (big) tutorial on learning the modeler: http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 22:46.17 | brlcad | examples of some brl-cad models generated: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 22:47.14 | Darkwell | hmm |
| 22:47.36 | Darkwell | interesting |
| 22:48.07 | Darkwell | I think understand what you mean now |
| 22:48.12 | brlcad | brl-cad has one of the very first ray-tracers ever written |
| 22:48.23 | brlcad | the package is more than 20 years under active development |
| 22:48.42 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: oldskool! |
| 22:48.43 | Darkwell | so its not really used for design and bluepringint of stuff I want to produce ? |
| 22:49.09 | Z80-Boy | Darkwell: do you work in an architecture bureau? |
| 22:49.15 | Darkwell | wrote a raytracer once in amige 500 :) |
| 22:49.19 | brlcad | we went open source about 2.5 years ago, so we're just getting ramped up as OSS to make it more usable |
| 22:49.34 | Darkwell | ok |
| 22:49.55 | brlcad | Darkwell: brl-cad's was the *first* distributed/parallel raytracer (back in '83 iirc) |
| 22:50.21 | Darkwell | Z80-Boy: no I am not, still I need cad cam stuff to be able to design objects that I am going to build |
| 22:50.35 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: did it run on Cray? |
| 22:50.41 | brlcad | Darkwell: and to answer your question, no -- not strongly suited to design and blueprints, though that is an area actively being worked on to support |
| 22:50.41 | Darkwell | and I am soon going to get an education learning to handla cnc machines welding etc |
| 22:50.59 | Darkwell | then I want to master the computer tools already |
| 22:51.03 | brlcad | there is some support for it via hidden line renderings, but sans dimensioning: e.g. http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 22:51.13 | Z80-Boy | Darkwell: do you do it commercially or hobby? |
| 22:51.38 | Darkwell | both |
| 22:52.14 | Darkwell | as of now I am just a handyman |
| 22:52.15 | Darkwell | ll |
| 22:52.17 | Darkwell | lol |
| 22:52.37 | Darkwell | well I think brlcad looks nice |
| 22:53.35 | Darkwell | let me check what the proper english name for the job is |
| 22:56.51 | Z80-Boy | How do I make rtxray produce white background instead of black? |
| 22:56.57 | Z80-Boy | An xray doesn't look like this |
| 22:59.22 | brlcad | -W |
| 23:00.26 | Z80-Boy | It's not written in the output of rtxray without parameters |
| 23:01.18 | Z80-Boy | And it doesn't work |
| 23:01.22 | Z80-Boy | As if it weren't there |
| 23:07.08 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: -w also doesn't work |
| 23:07.14 | Z80-Boy | refuses to start |
| 23:07.44 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.24 | Z80-Boy | Giving negative -A also doesn't help |
| 23:08.27 | Z80-Boy | just produces white |
| 23:08.50 | Z80-Boy | but otherwise it looks cool |
| 23:09.07 | Z80-Boy | going to sleep night |
| 23:14.53 | ``Erik | wow, a new shock site, and this one is... brutal |
| 23:15.48 | Darkwell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_and_die_maker <---- think I was right about the english name anyways |
| 23:38.38 | Darkwell | hmm gcam wasnt treally useful |
| 23:38.55 | Darkwell | several bugs in the windows build |
| 23:40.08 | louipc | report them! |
| 23:41.37 | ``Erik | yeah, how can twingy fix them if he doesn't have people telling him where the problems are? last I heard, he was mostly fbsd |
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| 13:34.46 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: with motion of the mouse, one can rotate the edited object left-right and up down |
| 13:34.56 | Z80-Boy | but one cannot rotate the view in a corkscrew fashion |
| 13:35.13 | Z80-Boy | but I figured out if I do circles with the mouse, the view rotates slowly in a corkscrew fashion |
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| 13:48.57 | yukonbob | hello, whirled |
| 13:49.30 | yukonbob | ?Is 7.11.0 the same code as 7.10.4 -- I was using HEAD and getting 7.10.3, but my latest update has mged showing it's 7.11.0 |
| 13:58.28 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:00.42 | ``Erik | and the MINOR for head was bumped on oct 17 |
| 14:00.57 | ``Erik | even though the stable branch forked a fair bit before |
| 14:20.39 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ok -- I'll regrab -r 7 |
| 14:20.51 | yukonbob | * -r 7.10 |
| 14:43.42 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ?what tag should I be using for following 7.10.4 (and later stables) |
| 14:43.55 | yukonbob | -r7.10 doesn't look like it ... |
| 15:04.34 | brlcad | -r rel-7-10-4 |
| 15:04.56 | brlcad | cvs status -v README (or any other file) will tell you the available tags |
| 15:05.03 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 15:05.05 | yukonbob | thx |
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| 15:06.09 | yukonbob | *7.11.0 |
| 15:16.30 | ``Erik | ah ha, I understand the tcl version issue |
| 15:17.45 | yukonbob | brlcad: I should be able to pick -r rel-7-10, and pick all 7.10.* as they are branched, no? |
| 15:18.40 | brlcad | yukonbob: did you see a branch in the status -v ? :) |
| 15:19.00 | brlcad | there's not a branch for all revs, only generally as/if needed |
| 15:19.18 | brlcad | STABLE is the branch 7.10.4 somes from |
| 15:20.12 | brlcad | and even then, checking out a branch in cvs isn't like checking out a branches dir in svn where you get all the revs |
| 15:20.28 | brlcad | you get the endpoint on that branch, whatever the latest is |
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| 19:26.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:26.19 | ``Erik | nice to know that the official release date of 7.10.4 was 2007-10-XX according to the news file :> *duck* |
| 19:37.21 | yukonbob | for the record, liked w/ 7.11.0 that errors/warnings went to stdout (err?) from shell where launched, and not into mged... though there are considerations for Windows (certainly) and MacOS (is =< OS9 supported?) potentially with that... |
| 20:01.24 | ``Erik | that's a bug, bob |
| 20:01.41 | ``Erik | the output to stdout/stderr... it SHOULD be captured |
| 20:13.18 | brlcad | it is kinda neat for some things, but yeah .. that's entirely an unintentional bug atm |
| 20:13.31 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 20:13.32 | yukonbob | hrmm... feature, bug... ;) |
| 20:13.39 | ``Erik | when're you uploading the 7.10.4 source tarballs? |
| 20:13.42 | brlcad | and pre Mac OS X is only supported if someone else wants to work on it, we're certainly not |
| 20:13.54 | brlcad | yeah |
| 20:14.03 | brlcad | have to bump the tag on two files |
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| 20:14.20 | brlcad | was uploading when ran into the two 'issues' |
| 20:14.25 | ``Erik | doh |
| 20:14.52 | ``Erik | what issues? |
| 20:15.11 | brlcad | date and .so |
| 20:15.54 | brlcad | yukonbob: there is a -f flag to not automatically detach |
| 20:16.09 | brlcad | stays in the (-f)oreground |
| 20:16.32 | yukonbob | brlcad: ah -- there I go ;) |
| 20:18.34 | ``Erik | you mean other than the mob of grizzled old army workers showing up at your door with linolium knives looking for a chunk?) |
| 20:19.16 | yukonbob | ``Erik: heh :) |
| 20:19.51 | brlcad | yukonbob: it's a good idea, been talked about in the past -- is kinda rather contrary to most open source *nix software; you see it a lot more common with commercial *nix software |
| 20:20.44 | yukonbob | Error: to many double negatives to be sure what you're saying. |
| 20:21.01 | yukonbob | you mean it's normal in commercial *nix to have things detach... |
| 20:21.02 | yukonbob | ? |
| 20:21.03 | ``Erik | the src/other directory is also more of a proprietary-land type move :/ |
| 20:22.16 | yukonbob | *too many double... |
| 20:30.08 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, more normal in commercial apps to detach automatically |
| 20:30.15 | brlcad | particularly for big gui apps |
| 20:31.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (122 files in 17 dirs): Upgrade to itcl/itk 3.3 |
| 20:36.21 | yukonbob | brlcad: just talking about reverse order of "default" operations, but "default" depends on commerical vs. non-comm. apparently, and "contrary", etc., etc... just making sure I'm clear. |
| 20:37.19 | yukonbob | anyway, we're clear now :) |
| 20:37.48 | yukonbob | I think I got a new error w/ mged and large dsp maps -- has that code been touched, or is this maybe only a side-effect from some other code adjustments? |
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| 21:24.20 | yukonbob | mged-*-bomb.log -- to where should this be filed? |
| 21:24.51 | ``Erik | um, it doesn't say in it? :D |
| 21:25.46 | yukonbob | nowhere obvious... |
| 21:25.57 | ``Erik | well poo on brlcad, email it to him :D |
| 21:26.02 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 21:26.03 | ``Erik | or paste it into, uh, pastebin.bzflag.bz |
| 21:35.28 | brlcad | of course it doesn't say - it's just a crash report -- the next step is bombardier which will give the option to automatically send in the report |
| 21:39.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (54 files in 2 dirs): upgrade to 1.2.22 ("A new bug with decoding iCCP chunks was fixed.") |
| 21:39.29 | ``Erik | tcl85b1 changed how the Var hashing is handled and the latest incrtcl doesn't cope with that... but it's fixed in CVS :/ |
| 21:39.47 | ``Erik | to import tcl85, we'd have to use bits of incr from cvs |
| 21:40.25 | brlcad | go for it |
| 21:40.34 | ``Erik | blehhhhhhhh |
| 21:41.10 | ``Erik | I have tcl and tk 85b1 building ok in my checkout, but I'm not terribly keen on the notion of picking and choosing bits from incr's head |
| 21:41.56 | brlcad | would updating to 85b1 in our checkout fix it? |
| 21:42.00 | ``Erik | (oddly enough, it seems to compile if you have tcl85 installed on the system... I'm wondering if it was snagging my 84 headers) |
| 21:42.07 | ``Erik | no, that's what breaks it |
| 21:42.35 | brlcad | we have a6 in the repo still |
| 21:42.40 | ``Erik | I have 85b1 in my checkout, I can commit and we'd have it... but incr ... is behind |
| 21:43.17 | brlcad | how can it fail saying it wants a6 if there is no a6? :) |
| 21:43.30 | ``Erik | different issue |
| 21:44.03 | brlcad | for the most part, the tcl core guys are keeping incrtcl up to date |
| 21:44.09 | brlcad | and none of them like incrtcl |
| 21:44.16 | brlcad | with a passion |
| 21:44.27 | brlcad | even though it's by far the most popular extension |
| 21:44.46 | brlcad | so they keep it up to date, but aren't likely to make a new release for it |
| 21:44.51 | ``Erik | I put ${REINPLACE_CMD} 's/8\.5a6/8.5b1/' ${WRKSRC}/src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl in the post-patch bit for the port and that fixes it |
| 21:45.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:45.35 | ``Erik | but I'm off on straight BRL-CAD stuff now, updating stuff in other... I updated incr to 3.3 earlier, that's all good |
| 21:46.06 | ``Erik | but when I upgrade to tcl8.5b1, the incr stuff breaks looking for things like refCount in the Var typedef in tclInt.h, which radically changed between 85a6 and b1 |
| 21:46.37 | ``Erik | (Var's are now held inside of a hash table instead of being part of a linked list) |
| 21:46.38 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m234696fc |
| 21:48.33 | ``Erik | erm, afaik, 7.10.4 requires tcl8.5 or better... 8.4 won't cut the mustard, just the cheese |
| 21:53.42 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2121d14e |
| 21:56.05 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m71d1814f |
| 21:57.00 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598c |
| 22:15.29 | brlcad | yukonbob: hmmm.. heh. that crash is inside your 8.4 libtcl :) |
| 22:15.41 | brlcad | maybe it doesn't quite fully work ;) |
| 22:40.36 | yukonbob | brlcad: d'oh :) |
| 22:43.04 | yukonbob | am I reading it right that it's actually a libpthread issue, called from NotifierThreadProc() in libtcl? |
| 22:45.37 | brlcad | it's actually hard to say -- the stack doesn't look right for the primary thread |
| 22:45.44 | brlcad | just happens to be the thread that crashed |
| 22:46.04 | yukonbob | does brl-cad even take advantage of multithreading in Tcl? |
| 22:46.12 | brlcad | i'll have to check on the gdb options to see if I can change that crash report to include all of the running threads |
| 22:46.35 | brlcad | not in the tcl side, but mged does do some multithreading |
| 22:46.59 | brlcad | e.g. that detaching from the console is done through a fork detachment |
| 22:47.12 | yukonbob | (way this happened was to load up disappointment.dsp (which has always been a problem dsp for me) and list it "l dspmap") |
| 22:47.33 | brlcad | ah, then I totally don't think that's the right crash report trace |
| 22:47.38 | brlcad | just the current thread |
| 22:48.40 | yukonbob | with a diff't .g, I can "l" the object no problem, so it's not strictly an 'l' condition (at least not for every 'l' condition) |
| 22:49.20 | brlcad | can you repeat it? |
| 22:49.28 | brlcad | or was it random? |
| 22:50.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: needs SHLIB_SUFFIX just like tcl's Makefile.in so we can have/know the suffix independent of the lib name |
| 22:51.21 | yukonbob | hrmm... not this time on first try... |
| 22:52.05 | yukonbob | we'll keep this under observation... |
| 22:53.05 | brlcad | yeah, if you find the conditions to reproduce it, let me know.. |
| 22:56.04 | yukonbob | rock 'n' roll... |
| 22:57.53 | poolio | evenin' |
| 22:58.11 | yukonbob | evening... |
| 22:58.22 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: released on the 24th |
| 22:59.48 | poolio | woohool |
| 22:59.56 | poolio | You guys should've waited two days and released with Leopard |
| 23:00.44 | brlcad | we'll probably still be making binaries by then for various platforms |
| 23:16.19 | ``Erik | is it on sf yet? :D |
| 23:21.59 | butti | hello boys |
| 23:42.26 | louipc | good evening |
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| 16:52.15 | waterpie | hi all |
| 16:55.28 | waterpie | q: i have no knowledge of brlcad. i just want to convert an iges file to eg dxf. i try "iges-g -3 -o f3.g f.iges" and then "g-dxf -o f3.dxf f3.g" but does nothing. it seems that it misses a "sample-object" at the end, but i have no idea what it is/how to make it. any help pls? |
| 17:06.56 | brlcad | when you do g-dxf, you have to tell it what object(s) to convert |
| 17:07.10 | brlcad | when you did iges-g, it created at least one object for you |
| 17:07.18 | brlcad | run mged -c f3.g tops |
| 17:07.31 | brlcad | that should list the top-level objects, you can then use that name for g-dxf |
| 17:14.15 | waterpie | brlcad: mged -c f3.g tops --> _GLOBAL running: g-dxf -o f3.dxf f3.g _GLOBAL --> _GLOBAL is not a drawable database object 0 triangles written |
| 17:14.42 | brlcad | yeah _GLOBAL is not a geometry object |
| 17:14.48 | brlcad | is there no other object listed? |
| 17:15.07 | waterpie | no |
| 17:15.28 | brlcad | then there wasn't any geometry detected/converted during iges-g |
| 17:15.45 | brlcad | it should have said in the output that there were 0 objects converted |
| 17:15.59 | brlcad | can you pastebin the output from iges-g? |
| 17:16.02 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 17:16.03 | ibot | [pastebin] a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 17:16.12 | brlcad | er |
| 17:16.15 | brlcad | ~bzpaste |
| 17:16.20 | brlcad | ~bzpastebin |
| 17:16.20 | ibot | somebody said bzpastebin was http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 17:16.29 | brlcad | yeah, there |
| 17:19.07 | waterpie | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d4b57b251 |
| 17:21.10 | brlcad | ah, several 'issues' |
| 17:21.59 | brlcad | "Unrecognized IGES version" for starters, meaning that solidworks is probably exporting one of the newer iges formats, but it still finds 1001 entities, so should be fine for conversion |
| 17:22.07 | brlcad | but at the bottom it says the problem |
| 17:22.31 | brlcad | it contains spline surfaces, so you need the -n option |
| 17:23.06 | brlcad | either -n or -t |
| 17:23.18 | brlcad | try both, should get different results |
| 17:24.01 | waterpie | it is either or. each one looses the info of the other? |
| 17:24.23 | brlcad | yeah, not both |
| 17:24.43 | brlcad | it's not so much that it looses information moreso than it tries a different conversion approach |
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| 17:25.32 | brlcad | just about every format conversion looses information of some type, it's really rare that *something* doesn' change |
| 17:26.01 | waterpie | -t core dumps |
| 17:26.20 | brlcad | hm, that's not a good sign |
| 17:26.57 | brlcad | can you paste the fin_assembly.igs somewhere where I can test it? |
| 17:27.04 | brlcad | s/paste/post/ |
| 17:32.34 | waterpie | i give up. i will try to get the file in different format in the first place. |
| 17:32.40 | waterpie | thanks for your help |
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| 18:18.55 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
| 18:58.32 | louipc | damned vampires |
| 19:14.45 | yukonbob | halloween coming early for you louipc? |
| 19:16.39 | louipc | they don't only come out on halloween |
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| 22:05.21 | starseeker | brlcad: Is the facetizer part of the converter? |
| 22:05.30 | brlcad | it's part of a lot of the converter |
| 22:05.41 | brlcad | it's what turns a given model into a set of polygons |
| 22:06.15 | brlcad | not so much heavy math as an utter slew of logic |
| 22:06.27 | starseeker | ah |
| 22:06.30 | brlcad | euler operations on meshes, dealing with floating point arithmetic |
| 22:06.49 | brlcad | tons of O(n^2) and O(n^3) algorithms |
| 22:06.58 | brlcad | some that are worse.. |
| 22:07.10 | brlcad | it's the nature of the problem, it's np-complete to start with |
| 22:07.29 | starseeker | Oh, OK - so it's not the "well, this one is easier to implement" effect? |
| 22:07.33 | brlcad | aside from the practicle aspects of dealing with floating point and modeling issues |
| 22:07.43 | brlcad | oh no, not at all |
| 22:08.12 | brlcad | it's actually not a bad approach, just exceptionally hard to implement well as you're already starting from a degraded state |
| 22:08.33 | starseeker | Are the major formats at least well documented, or is it kind of a CAD version of the MS Word effect? |
| 22:09.02 | brlcad | it's not really a format, it's the core "how do you deal with solid geometry in a mesh format" |
| 22:09.11 | starseeker | Oh, OK. |
| 22:09.25 | brlcad | at least, the "format" is just a "boundary representation" |
| 22:09.40 | brlcad | there are some choices there, whether it be something like brl-cad's n-manifold geometry |
| 22:09.48 | brlcad | or winged edge data structures, or others |
| 22:10.16 | brlcad | but the base problem is "give me a mesh of this object that is guaranteed to be solid geometry" .. and that turns out to being a pretty hard problem |
| 22:10.33 | starseeker | Oh, OK. |
| 22:10.37 | brlcad | especially with floating point math and "unclean" geometry that you always encounter |
| 22:11.43 | starseeker | Can you help by doing related/derivative dimensions? (I.e. "this length is always exactly 2x the length of this" - not sure what the technical term would be) |
| 22:13.35 | brlcad | there is some book-keeping you can do, but you very quickly/often end up with a situation where code-wise you don't really know the intent, so either case for A or B can be wrong |
| 22:14.03 | brlcad | that would be a dimensioning constraint |
| 22:14.33 | brlcad | you still are trying to make a mesh, and all you have to go with is a mess of polygon soup |
| 22:14.49 | brlcad | a closed mesh |
| 22:15.14 | starseeker | Hmm |
| 22:15.24 | starseeker | nasty |
| 22:15.30 | brlcad | most of content packages (e.g. blender) can get away with a lot of the mesh operations because they rarely ever have to ensure closure, just how it looks |
| 22:16.04 | starseeker | So as long as the imperfection there is "non-visual" on some scale, it doesn't matter? |
| 22:16.30 | brlcad | anyways, that's one of the reasons for wanting b-rep support at our primitive level, and b-rep csg operations |
| 22:16.41 | starseeker | right |
| 22:17.22 | brlcad | that would let us retain the topological structure all the way up to the point that the mesh itself is created, and can then be directly done given the already evaluated surfaces instead of evaluating csg on mesh after mesh |
| 22:18.34 | starseeker | Elegant. |
| 22:19.22 | starseeker | How disruptive is primitive b-rep support? |
| 22:19.36 | brlcad | disruptive? |
| 22:19.44 | brlcad | not at all |
| 22:19.50 | brlcad | just an entirely different paradigm :) |
| 22:20.02 | starseeker | So it can be added without disturbing too much of the existing code? |
| 22:20.03 | brlcad | some of the work is already complete, massive undertaking |
| 22:20.06 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 22:20.08 | brlcad | easily |
| 22:20.13 | brlcad | some of it's already there |
| 22:20.15 | starseeker | Cool - that helps |
| 22:20.31 | brlcad | for maybe three or four of the primtiives, plus the entire brep/nurbs representation support is pretty much done |
| 22:20.49 | starseeker | cool! |
| 22:21.03 | brlcad | so have to add the rest of the primitives, then work on csg evaluation of brep on brep and work on fast brep tessellation |
| 22:21.28 | brlcad | those three pieces done, then we have clean facetization of any csg model as well as things like opengl shaded displays |
| 22:22.13 | starseeker | Nice! |
| 22:24.41 | starseeker | Naive question - the existence of brep at a primitive level - how does that make the core logic of model -> mesh simpler? Would it mean that models would have to be rebuilt with the new primitive or would the conversion of old primitives to brep be less expensive? |
| 22:25.55 | starseeker | IriX64: Dare we ask? |
| 22:26.07 | IriX64 | vista64 :) |
| 22:26.54 | IriX64 | heh i haven't tossed my cookies .... yet :) |
| 22:27.22 | starseeker | Sooo... does BRL-CAD work on it? ;-) |
| 22:27.40 | IriX64 | yes actually more to come on that :) |
| 22:28.43 | IriX64 | brlcad=busy man |
| 22:29.14 | starseeker | Heh - one dumb question too many I guess |
| 22:29.36 | IriX64 | no such thing as dumb question if i don't know the answer someone else does said somebody to me |
| 22:31.31 | starseeker | The thought skittered through my brain that the fundamental problem of converting shapes to meshes has to be solved somewhere - maybe std. primitive -> brep -> mesh is cleaner theoretically than std. primitive -> mesh? |
| 22:43.25 | yukonbob | starseeker: yesterday (?) I posted some diffs that might help you w/ running tcl/tk 8.4; (it was you that was interested in this, right? With ebuilds?) |
| 22:43.33 | louipc | hmm I don't know why I'd want to change a csg model to brep |
| 22:44.21 | IriX64 | http://www.irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcaddoesvista64 and also /vista64 :) |
| 22:45.02 | starseeker | yukonbob: Not me per-say - Gentoo devs would probably like it, but I'm OK with using the internal one |
| 22:45.26 | IriX64 | well the brlcad albumn :) |
| 22:45.43 | louipc | starseeker: no ebuilds for tcl8.5a? |
| 22:46.29 | starseeker | louipc: They are but they are "masked" meaning they are unstable |
| 22:46.53 | starseeker | BRL-CAD isn't unstable, so I would prefer not to rely on an unstable ebuild when it is merged (IF it is merged... grumble...) |
| 22:47.23 | starseeker | yukonbob: I think I saw some of that - how extensive are the diffs? |
| 22:47.33 | louipc | I think they're only classified as unstable because it's alpha |
| 22:47.54 | starseeker | louipc: Right, but that doesn't change it unfortunately - we would need a stable 8.5 |
| 22:48.09 | louipc | unless you use tcl for other things I bet it's ok to install them seperately |
| 22:48.35 | starseeker | yukonbob: I already need to patch once for tcl, so patching to work with 8.4 actually isn't impossible |
| 22:48.36 | louipc | brl-cad is distributing the tcl8.5a though |
| 22:49.10 | starseeker | louipc: Right. That's my preference, but it seems to give some of the devs hives... |
| 22:49.21 | louipc | same as you get anywhere else |
| 22:49.32 | louipc | eg. in the 8.5a ebuild |
| 22:50.05 | louipc | you should try it though ;) |
| 22:50.07 | starseeker | Once we install into /opt all the nasty problems go away. To me that seems to be the obvious way to go - if we end up having to have a binary install it would go there anyway... |
| 22:50.22 | louipc | yeap opt helps |
| 22:50.36 | starseeker | yukonbob: Still here? |
| 22:50.46 | louipc | but there's no use having tcl installed twice hah |
| 22:50.53 | starseeker | That's their thinking |
| 22:51.04 | louipc | but there isn't... |
| 22:51.41 | starseeker | I suppose, but it's simpler to just have brlcad install exactly what it needs and we don't have to argue about the mask on tcl 8.5... |
| 22:51.44 | louipc | did it not work with 8.5a installed separately? |
| 22:51.49 | starseeker | probably it does |
| 22:51.58 | starseeker | I can try it |
| 22:52.30 | louipc | yeah I would |
| 22:52.58 | starseeker | hard drives are so cheap today the simpler solution appeals though |
| 22:53.40 | louipc | not to me, and probably a lot of other folks :P |
| 22:54.05 | starseeker | So I've noticed. |
| 22:54.22 | starseeker | All I need to do is install it, and the rest should follow. |
| 22:54.59 | starseeker | The ebuild actually doesn't specify one way or the other, so if you install tcl 8.5 it SHOULD work. |
| 22:55.49 | louipc | yeah true the config will pick it up |
| 22:56.41 | starseeker | Putting tcl and tk in the package.keywords file didn't bump the upgrades - they must be hard masked |
| 22:57.16 | starseeker | Yep - hard masked in /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask |
| 22:59.58 | yukonbob | louipc: re: unstable -- there still seems to be legitimate issues around 8.5 that would be "unstable"... which is why it's still beta (not alpha anymore)... but that said, it's got some new work under the hood that won't be proven stable until it's more widely deployed/tested... so in that case, basing a product (ie: brl-cad) on it is a bit risky... |
| 23:00.49 | starseeker | Generally I don't mess with something that is hard masked - it's a bit of a pain and oftentimes risky |
| 23:01.33 | louipc | yeah brl-cad already uses it though hehe |
| 23:02.02 | starseeker | yukonbob: Are the patches still online somewhere? Maybe including those patches will push brl-cad into the acceptable category |
| 23:04.19 | yukonbob | starseeker: I posted them in pastebin.bzflag.bz -- my build env is pkgsrc on netbsd, so w/i that framework (and setting up working dependencies, configs for the env), the mods I made swap-out 8.6 for tcl/tk for 8.4 (there is no tcl/tk 8.6), and I also completely remove itcl, itk, urt, and a few others where I can properly modularize the build and use itcl packages, urt packages, etc., etc. |
| 23:06.10 | louipc | yeah I have to make itcl, itk, etc packages |
| 23:06.37 | louipc | tcl extensions are kinda odd |
| 23:06.55 | yukonbob | louipc: that's the smart way to go -- that way you can manage it w/ your package tools... |
| 23:07.14 | louipc | (the way you're supposed to keep sources, build-stubs) |
| 23:07.15 | yukonbob | rather than having it as a non-defined "lump" that's part of a bigger install (brlcad). |
| 23:07.37 | louipc | yukonbob: yea it's ideal |
| 23:07.52 | louipc | even brlcad can be broken up into a few |
| 23:07.55 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2121d14e |
| 23:08.35 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.47 | louipc | mged, librt, rt, conv, ... |
| 23:09.08 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598chttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598c |
| 23:09.13 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598c |
| 23:10.05 | starseeker | yukonbob: Thanks! |
| 23:10.13 | yukonbob | (last one gets rid of bwish, which I don't use, and I'm experimenting w/ setting up a loadable lib for plain-jane tclsh/wish, rather than "another" wish client... |
| 23:10.16 | yukonbob | ) |
| 23:10.28 | yukonbob | starseeker: np -- hope you find something useful. |
| 23:15.59 | yukonbob | I use pkgs for libpng, urt (Utah Raster Toolkit), tcl, tk, incr tcl (itcl/itk), blt, and tkimg. configure is instructed to not build included copies, and I also disable jove, because I just use whatever my favourite already-installed editor is... |
| 00:17.43 | louipc | yeah I should probably disable jove |
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| 15:08.49 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/?startingImageIndex=0&commentsExpand=0&addCommentExpand=0&addCommentFocus=0&pauseSlideshow=0 <---- brlcad and vista64 :) (my new affliction) :) |
| 15:09.52 | IriX64 | mmm maybe this is better ... http://www.irix32.spaces.live.com/photos |
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| 15:41.28 | brlcad | "Erik may be interested in the fact that Jutland is the mainland of Denmark and definitely no part of Germany" |
| 15:43.36 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: delete the solids.rt.log file |
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| 16:44.13 | ``Erik | hehehehe http://rfc.net/rfc3514.html |
| 16:46.03 | ``Erik | brlcad: I'm ready too much historical stuff lately :D northern jutland is where archeologists think the cimbri lived, who were a germanic people who caused a lot of grief for the roman empire :D |
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| 19:42.28 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: remove dead iris code |
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| 21:42.01 | starseeker | For my fellow Gentoo users: BRL-CAD ebuild is bumped to latest version: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197 |
| 21:43.01 | louipc | I think I want a BRL-CAD baseball cap with the big eagle logo :D |
| 21:46.47 | Maloeran | BRL-CAD is in portage now? Neat, I always just compiled |
| 21:48.14 | louipc | heh yeah I compiled too |
| 21:49.27 | louipc | does the new brl-cad website seem kind of crowded to you? |
| 21:49.54 | louipc | I could do without the whole bottom section :/ |
| 21:50.02 | starseeker | Not in portage, on the bugzilla for Gentoo |
| 21:50.16 | starseeker | I'd like it to be in portage, but so far I can't attract the interest of a developer |
| 21:50.27 | starseeker | I could try BECOMING a developer, but that takes time... |
| 21:50.42 | louipc | are there set guidelines to become a developer? |
| 21:50.54 | kwizart | well how do you solve the tcl tk probem with 8.5 not stable ? |
| 21:51.03 | starseeker | Sort of - you need a mentor and pass some quizzes, etc. |
| 21:51.08 | starseeker | I use the internal copy |
| 21:51.12 | louipc | I don't think my distro has any. It's just "hey we like you, you're a dev" |
| 21:51.17 | starseeker | I install in opt |
| 21:51.24 | kwizart | shared libs ? |
| 21:51.43 | kwizart | x86 or can you test x86_64 also ? |
| 21:51.59 | starseeker | BRL-CAD's configure script is intelligent - if you have a correct tcl/tk installed it will use it, otherwise it builds a local copy for brl-cad |
| 21:52.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (38 files in 8 dirs): yet another surge of level 4 flawfinder string length checks. somewhere around 30-40% done. |
| 21:52.22 | kwizart | well usually, we still have tcl tk 8.4 |
| 21:52.27 | brlcad | louipc: sure, see the HACKING file |
| 21:53.10 | louipc | brlcad: :D I meant gentoo dev, but thanks |
| 21:53.18 | kwizart | for now it seems to work but i need to genertate sh autgen.sh |
| 21:53.25 | brlcad | louipc: ah :) |
| 21:53.29 | kwizart | and fix: sed -i -e 's|/usr/brlcad/bin/btclsh|%{_bindir}/tclsh|' $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl |
| 21:53.44 | kwizart | and sed -i -e 's|/bin/tclsh|%{_bindir}/tclsh|' $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/tclscripts/geometree/{geometree.tcl,GeometryBrowser.tcl} |
| 21:54.15 | starseeker | I have the ebuild call autoconf, and there's a patch for tcl/tk needed as well (someone else found the solution to that) |
| 21:54.45 | kwizart | using tcl 8.4 or last 8.5b1 ? |
| 21:54.56 | starseeker | 8.5 |
| 21:55.05 | starseeker | the internal copy in BRL-CAD's cvs |
| 21:55.18 | starseeker | or tarball, actually... |
| 21:56.04 | kwizart | actually i'm using 85b1 system...(shared libs) but i cannot compile itcl itk system so i'm using brlcad for theses |
| 21:56.38 | kwizart | i need also to rename wall |
| 21:56.39 | kwizart | mv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_bindir}/wall $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_bindir}/brlcad-wall |
| 21:56.54 | kwizart | since it conflict with wall command |
| 21:57.14 | brlcad | kwizart: curious those fixes .. are they specific to an environment? |
| 21:57.24 | louipc | brlcad: btw I just figured that you wouldn't need the md5sum in the archlinux PKGBUILD included in brlcad src. It would kind of be like making a cvs pkg which doesn't have that check either. I will fix it. |
| 21:57.37 | brlcad | are more importantly, anything that can be done to change our sources so you don't have to make your fixes down the road? |
| 21:57.45 | brlcad | (wall is a known one, just haven't gotten to it) |
| 21:57.56 | brlcad | but the other seds are new |
| 21:57.59 | kwizart | (installed in /usr since it aims to use Fedora guidelines - to be added for F9 maybe ) |
| 21:58.45 | brlcad | kwizart: that is ill-advised still at the moment for fedora if you have conflicting libs |
| 21:58.56 | brlcad | namely librt, libbu, and libbn |
| 21:59.08 | kwizart | brlcad, actually rpm checks for scripts shebang, if the command do not exist, then there is a problem with requires at rpm install |
| 21:59.51 | brlcad | I don't mean commands, I mean specifically libs |
| 22:00.25 | brlcad | librt is the most common conflict |
| 22:00.28 | kwizart | hum... |
| 22:00.45 | brlcad | ours predates, but the kernel compat lib is found on many systems |
| 22:01.02 | kwizart | then that would be fine to change SONAME |
| 22:01.14 | kwizart | [root@kwizatz bin]# rpm -qf /usr/lib64/librt.so |
| 22:01.14 | kwizart | glibc-devel-2.6-4 |
| 22:01.23 | brlcad | ours is a ray-trace library, the other is a real-time kernel library that is deprecated |
| 22:01.53 | kwizart | maybe i will raise this problem, to see if we can remove it.. |
| 22:01.56 | kwizart | for F9 |
| 22:01.59 | brlcad | exactly my point, care should be taken to not clobber the system lib or lots will be broken |
| 22:02.04 | kwizart | but maybe compat will need it |
| 22:02.07 | brlcad | or yeah, remove it |
| 22:02.30 | kwizart | but shouldn't it be easier to change SONAME ? |
| 22:02.53 | brlcad | for us, it's are most fundamental library and will not likely be changed on our end |
| 22:02.58 | kwizart | configure could hadle this properly (saw some sample somewhere ) |
| 22:03.03 | brlcad | our primary user base relies on it and expects it |
| 22:03.40 | kwizart | could do some search to provide a clean way to handle that... |
| 22:03.52 | kwizart | yes i don't mean to remove it |
| 22:03.52 | louipc | kwizart: Fedora doesn't have some standard means of working around conflicts like that? |
| 22:04.11 | brlcad | I mean even to rename it, our librt goes back nearly 25 years of active use |
| 22:04.49 | kwizart | well, the namespace is a problem, if there is a lot, then might be better to have libs installed in /usr/lib(64)/brlcad/ |
| 22:04.53 | brlcad | the approach I'm hoping to eventually add will be something like haveing a /usr/lib/brlcad where our libs would reside |
| 22:05.25 | kwizart | and having a /etc/ld.so.conf.d/brlcad.conf to provide a clean way to say the path to the ldconfig |
| 22:05.27 | louipc | tjat |
| 22:05.31 | brlcad | we have similar conflicts with binaries, but none of those to date are really problematic fortunately (e.g. wall, can be trivially changed) |
| 22:05.32 | louipc | that'd be alright |
| 22:06.01 | kwizart | but since it is mandatory to have shared libs, then the SONAME have to be different |
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| 22:07.56 | brlcad | mandatory for whom? |
| 22:07.56 | kwizart | librt.so.19 librt.so.1 for glib, so i think they will not conflict, unless for librt.so |
| 22:08.10 | kwizart | mandatory for pacakges within Fedora... |
| 22:08.54 | brlcad | i.e. the most important one will conflict if they're in the same dir |
| 22:09.19 | brlcad | if they're not in the same directly, then it shouldn't be a problem since our binaries will have rpaths to what they need |
| 22:09.28 | kwizart | that why it can add a prefix |
| 22:09.36 | kwizart | rpath are not allowed neither |
| 22:09.54 | brlcad | eh, "rpath are not allowed" .. what does that mean exactly? |
| 22:10.05 | kwizart | rpmbuidl command block them (as this will prevent to use the improvements with the linker...) |
| 22:10.28 | brlcad | it's a compile-time setting |
| 22:10.30 | kwizart | you cannot approve a package to be in Fedora if there is rpaths within |
| 22:10.43 | starseeker | kwizart: It might be useful to check over the gentoo bug history for brl-cad |
| 22:10.48 | brlcad | that's pretty much any tool that links with libtool |
| 22:10.49 | kwizart | yes it is (and i've removed them in my testing package ) |
| 22:11.29 | kwizart | with chrpath since removing them in libtool will prevent them to link at build time (removed after make install ) |
| 22:11.29 | starseeker | kwizart: brlcad generally has specific ways of doing things that are not subject to change, for very long historical reasons |
| 22:11.40 | louipc | heehee |
| 22:11.50 | brlcad | I somehow highly doubt that is an enforceable rule if there really is such a rule.. :) |
| 22:11.51 | starseeker | kwizart: What about puting it somewhere like opt? |
| 22:12.23 | starseeker | Or whatever Fedora uses for opt? |
| 22:12.43 | starseeker | Surely there must be other packages out there that cannot be installed in /usr without problems |
| 22:12.46 | louipc | yeah there's gotta be some kind of provisions within fedora guidelines to deal with such conflicts sanely |
| 22:13.00 | kwizart | Fedora uses /usr :) |
| 22:13.18 | starseeker | I can speak from personal experience - putting brlcad in /usr is a fools game |
| 22:13.19 | kwizart | fedora packages distributed by Fedora |
| 22:13.29 | brlcad | starseeker: I've yet to see a single one of the major distros actually accommodate name collisions outside of forcing one or the other to change their name |
| 22:13.30 | kwizart | meant /usr/bin /usr/lib(64) |
| 22:13.37 | kwizart | not /usr/brlcad |
| 22:13.39 | starseeker | meh |
| 22:13.55 | kwizart | well that's a packager problem actually... |
| 22:14.00 | starseeker | kwizart: I had to re-install my system twice to clean up messes I made with /usr installs |
| 22:14.15 | louipc | brlcad: ouch |
| 22:14.22 | kwizart | i can handle theses problem... if it works fine.. (and i will have time to checks ) |
| 22:15.00 | kwizart | starseeker, well i install thing in /usr with rpm |
| 22:15.21 | starseeker | The name collision is fundamental. |
| 22:15.29 | louipc | yeah manual install should go in /usr/local non? |
| 22:15.32 | starseeker | It's also rather insidious |
| 22:15.44 | kwizart | louipc, yes indeed |
| 22:15.44 | brlcad | kwizart: I do appreciate the efforts, and would strongly prefer finding a solution that doesn't require changing our product names for our libraries -- binaries we can probably adjust depending on which one, but the libraries have extensive heritage behind them (that predates linux itself) |
| 22:15.48 | starseeker | I had my system keep working after brlcad nuked the libraries, which was even stranger than total failure |
| 22:16.42 | brlcad | it'll install usually with no problem, the issue is usually librt getting replaced, which can render a system unusable |
| 22:17.00 | brlcad | or if openssh is installed and their libbn is installed, and our libbn clobbers it |
| 22:17.01 | louipc | I hear of some people caching the whole system in memory hehe |
| 22:17.49 | louipc | brlcad: that shouldn't happen with the pkgs checking for file conflicts |
| 22:17.54 | brlcad | kwizart: if there's build settings that I can change on our part, please let me know (e.g. the sed issues) |
| 22:18.02 | louipc | 'rpm' as kwizart said |
| 22:18.03 | brlcad | louipc: you'd think |
| 22:20.31 | kwizart | brlcad, first step would be to use /usr/lib(64)/brlcad but it would be fine to have also librt-brlcad.so.19 (i knwo you will be disapointed but since it will be provided by brlcad-config or pkgconfig, does it would matter ?...) |
| 22:20.56 | kwizart | just a thought...^^ |
| 22:22.22 | brlcad | /usr/lib(64)/brlcad would be fine, but changing the .so's name would certainly be a last resort |
| 22:22.55 | brlcad | i mean in all fairness, would you consider renaming glibc's deprecated librt.so librt-glibc.so.19 ? it's just as absurd |
| 22:23.15 | kwizart | i will try to see... |
| 22:23.38 | brlcad | especially since theirs is 'dead' last I read, but even if it wasn't |
| 22:23.50 | kwizart | then openssl also : /lib64/libssl.so.6 ( needs to checks) |
| 22:24.30 | brlcad | there are potentially others as well, those are just two pretty popular/common conflicts that I can name |
| 22:24.39 | kwizart | i think glibc in Fedora 8 is enought recent to drop old things... (Fedora 8 will have glibc 2.7 ) |
| 22:26.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: re-enable the checks for tcl8.4, see if we can get both 8.4 and 8.5 working so beta isn't required. |
| 22:26.29 | kwizart | hum nice... |
| 22:29.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: merge in the release notes from STABLE |
| 22:30.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: merge in 7.10.4 ChangeLog from STABLE |
| 22:30.35 | louipc | woo |
| 22:41.05 | brlcad | woo hoo, down to 650 level 4 issues! |
| 22:41.34 | brlcad | (from about 1700) |
| 23:04.18 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:05.44 | ``Erik | unfortunately, when I do a fresh checkout of my dev tree and delete all the 'imported' stuff, sloccount says I'm a little less impressive :/ |
| 23:09.31 | louipc | hmm |
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| 23:14.20 | ``Erik | SILENCE, MAGGOT! |
| 23:22.02 | yukonbob | ~lart maggots |
| 23:22.02 | ibot | does a little 'dpkg -P maggots' action |
| 23:26.13 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 06:51.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/material.c: don't blather verbose if we can't find the dynamic shader |
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| 09:39.02 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: how many people are using BRL-CAD to make raytraced videos? |
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| 11:17.50 | illethal | Hi. |
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| 16:29.55 | brlcad | woot, search box now expands |
| 16:31.42 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: it's not something that is done every day, usually for making presentation movies or for visualizing some specific results |
| 16:32.51 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I changed my program for high-quality RGB->Y'CbCr conversion to have the table compiled inside the binary, and to be faster by reusing repeating values |
| 16:33.09 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you think that my program doesn't have a practical value then? |
| 16:33.29 | Z80-Boy | or let's say significant practical value, when people don't do videos often? |
| 16:33.48 | brlcad | ehhhh.. i never indicated that it didn't have a practical value |
| 16:34.05 | brlcad | sounds like it clearly has some value, particularly to you, probably to others too |
| 17:06.01 | Z80-Boy | I meant to others |
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| 17:06.16 | Z80-Boy | do you think it makes sense to invest time into making it releasable as an add-on for BRL-CAD? |
| 18:39.58 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: probably, but then to be a proper addition there are still the redistribution issues |
| 18:41.36 | brlcad | if it was a polished and documented tool, it could be compiled and included into src/other with you retaining copyright, but would still have to be either LGPL or BSD licensed |
| 18:42.31 | brlcad | the requirement of assignment hasn't changed on being included elsewhere in src (like src/util or src/anim) |
| 18:42.43 | brlcad | minute-ssh: finished! |
| 18:43.09 | brlcad | 6 hours later and now both of the search boxes resize properly :) |
| 18:44.39 | brlcad | the only nit-pick remaining that I'm still not really happy with is the download link |
| 19:06.47 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: and adding a section on the website with links to other programs that can be interfaced to BRL-CAD? |
| 19:07.14 | brlcad | that's the idea for the wiki regardless, any community info of relevance |
| 19:07.36 | brlcad | btw, there's a write-up on there already for ronja |
| 19:07.45 | brlcad | no pictures, yet, but it does have the text |
| 19:07.56 | Z80-Boy | URL? |
| 19:08.00 | brlcad | if you would review it for accuracy, that would be cool |
| 19:08.15 | brlcad | http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Ronja |
| 19:09.02 | minute-ssh | brlcad: well done |
| 19:09.23 | minute-ssh | got anywhere with LDAP yet? |
| 19:10.00 | minute-ssh | yeah, the download link looks a bit ugly |
| 19:10.26 | minute-ssh | not sure what it could be replaced with though |
| 19:10.43 | Z80-Boy | "The interactive geometry editor and ray-tracers in BRL-CAD are an integral part in the communication of design plans for Twibright labs and enables them to connect with the users, who are the driving force behind the User Controlled Technology ideal." |
| 19:11.06 | Z80-Boy | Actually no user ever attempted to edit a 3D model of Ronja I did all |
| 19:11.27 | Z80-Boy | It's not clear to me what "users, who are the driving force behind the User Controlled Technology ideal" means |
| 19:12.05 | Z80-Boy | I am also not sure how innovative my piece of equipment it is, considering the low-cost parts involved |
| 19:12.18 | Z80-Boy | But one could say that the project is innovative, that definitely |
| 19:12.24 | brlcad | it doesn't say that users edit |
| 19:12.39 | brlcad | it says the editor and ray-tracers were used to connect with users |
| 19:13.46 | brlcad | maybe help to read it more carefully before giving critique :P |
| 19:14.07 | brlcad | it's intentionally got marketing spin in it, the question is whether you're okay with it -- if you want to tweak it, go for it |
| 19:15.02 | minute-ssh | bbl |
| 20:31.52 | brlcad | there, that's a little better |
| 20:46.02 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:52.18 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dbcp.c: quell compilation warnings, remove prs() |
| 21:59.22 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: quell compilation warnings for constness changes |
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| 04:22.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dbcp.c: fix fpritnf typo |
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| 05:10.57 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/error.c: ws |
| 05:42.28 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 5 dirs): more flawfinder and bu_exit conversions |
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| 10:01.00 | tarzeau | x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include -I../../../../src/other/libutahrle/include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../../../include -Wall -g -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c `test -f 'crop.c' || echo './'`crop.c |
| 10:01.04 | tarzeau | crop.c:29: warning: 'rcs_ident' defined but not used |
| 10:01.05 | tarzeau | when trying to build 7.10.4 on linux |
| 10:06.15 | Z80-Boy | tarzeau: hi |
| 10:06.20 | tarzeau | hi Z80-Boy |
| 10:06.26 | tarzeau | clock! |
| 10:06.36 | Z80-Boy | tarzeau: I am drawing the vgalamp schematic at the moment |
| 10:06.40 | tarzeau | i'm trying with --disable-iwidgets-build |
| 10:06.43 | Z80-Boy | The values of components were missing |
| 10:06.45 | tarzeau | Z80-Boy: WOW! |
| 10:06.48 | Z80-Boy | tarzeau: what's iwidgets? |
| 10:07.32 | tarzeau | dunno something which cause problem to build it for me maybe |
| 10:08.01 | Z80-Boy | libbreakcompile |
| 10:09.59 | Z80-Boy | tarzeau: do you know what is franchise, rabatt and skoto with the krankenkasse? |
| 10:10.14 | Z80-Boy | I got some complicated leaflet and now I realized I don't understand anything at all |
| 10:10.49 | tarzeau | Z80-Boy: ouf, skonto is when you pay within 30 days you can take off 2% from the "rechnung" |
| 10:11.04 | tarzeau | Z80-Boy: rabatt is another discount. no idea about franchise |
| 10:11.56 | Z80-Boy | tarzeau: franchise is those 1500 2000 or whatever CHF |
| 10:12.13 | Z80-Boy | tarzeau: who actually gives you the rechnung, the doctor or the krankenkasse? |
| 10:12.26 | tarzeau | the krankenkasse? |
| 10:13.00 | Z80-Boy | and if you have franchise 2500 and you go to a doctor for 300 then how much rechnung do you get? Full 300? |
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| 10:31.41 | tarzeau | no idea really |
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| 11:32.22 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is it allowed to enter unnormalized vectors in put arbn8? |
| 12:35.06 | brlcad | tarzeau: that's just a warning, fwiw, on the rcs_ident string -- an old-style identifier |
| 12:35.54 | brlcad | iwidgets is a tcl extension package -- it doesn't actually have anything that compiles iirc, but disabling its building will tell it to try and use a system iwidgets library instead |
| 12:36.39 | brlcad | i've not heard of any problems with iwidgets doing anything, so would be interested in hearing what, if anything, is going on with your build wrt them |
| 12:38.28 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: afaik, that was the cause of the previous two bugs so the answer probably was no, but should now be yes if those were the only two issues |
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| 17:28.04 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbfade.c: remove the non-stdarg interfaces, we can assume c89 now. c-set-style stroustrup ws too. |
| 17:35.52 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbgamma.c: convert to libbu memory management |
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| 22:13.23 | tarzeau | brlcad: i'm desperately trying to build debian packages of brlcad, without success for a long time now, you can find the full build log here: |
| 22:13.42 | tarzeau | brlcad: http://krum.ethz.ch/debian/brlcad/brlcad_7.10.4-1_amd64.build |
| 22:17.55 | trainman419 | it looks like it's failing on iwidgets, do you have it installed? |
| 22:31.36 | brlcad | yeah, you've specifically turned off iwidgets but then either it's not installed or it's not being tested for appropriately |
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| 22:32.51 | brlcad | tarzeau: and I don't know if you've been listening in on the other conversations, but installing into /usr is presently highly ill-advised |
| 22:33.19 | brlcad | if there's a system librt.so from gcc, it'll get clobbered by ours |
| 22:33.40 | brlcad | potential other lib conflicts with libbu and libbn depending on what is installed aprior |
| 22:34.12 | tarzeau | i tried without the disbaling iwidgets and that failed too |
| 22:34.24 | tarzeau | i'd put the librt.so into /usr/lib/brlcad/ then... |
| 22:34.31 | tarzeau | but i can't even get it to build :( |
| 22:34.53 | brlcad | what's the error without disabling anything? |
| 22:35.04 | tarzeau | let me see.. |
| 22:35.15 | brlcad | not disabling anything and enabling everything are the two most frequently tested configurations |
| 22:35.35 | brlcad | they should both generally work unless there's a system misconfiguration or a bug in the build system |
| 22:42.57 | tarzeau | it's still building... |
| 22:44.16 | tarzeau | i know what the problem was |
| 22:44.28 | tarzeau | i wanted to build with LDFLAGS and CFLAGS |
| 22:44.34 | tarzeau | and leaving them away makes it work |
| 22:44.42 | tarzeau | i've had this problem with another big software project |
| 22:44.54 | tarzeau | let me give you the options that i used, that made it fail: |
| 22:45.49 | tarzeau | CFLAGS="-O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" |
| 22:45.55 | tarzeau | try configure with these added at the end |
| 22:50.59 | trainman419 | brlcad: is linux brlcad compatible with ATI proprietary graphics drivers? |
| 22:52.04 | brlcad | trainman419: sure, shouldn't matter afaik |
| 22:52.16 | brlcad | we don't require opengl |
| 22:52.39 | brlcad | rendering occurs via ray-tracing or generic wireframe rendering |
| 22:53.13 | trainman419 | well, when I try to use the framebuffer of an opengl window if makes the screen go all black |
| 22:53.21 | trainman419 | X windows work ok, though |
| 22:53.39 | brlcad | ah, sounds like "the opengl bug" |
| 22:54.24 | brlcad | we've not been able to find the cause of that (bizarre) bug |
| 22:54.58 | trainman419 | well, at least it's not just me |
| 22:55.21 | brlcad | some bad interaction between opengl states and X11 |
| 22:55.30 | brlcad | --disable-opengl to work around it |
| 22:56.03 | brlcad | doesn't remove any functionality, but does make that particular problem go away |
| 23:14.00 | trainman419 | brlcad: so, the raytracer doesn't use any opengl acceleration other than framebuffer? |
| 23:19.28 | Maloeran | It doesn't, it's all software |
| 23:29.10 | ``Erik | BLAHHHH |
| 23:34.49 | Maloeran | Hey Erik, how's life? |
| 23:43.45 | ``Erik | continuing. |
| 23:57.24 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 00:06.53 | louipc | wuzzat? |
| 00:07.05 | starseeker | Freebie game using the Tribes2 engine |
| 00:07.11 | louipc | ah |
| 00:07.36 | louipc | sometimes it's necessary |
| 00:07.41 | louipc | but not really for games :P |
| 00:07.46 | starseeker | I should just play bzflag ;-) |
| 00:07.53 | louipc | haha |
| 00:08.02 | louipc | it's fun for awhile |
| 00:08.14 | louipc | maybe just because I'm not a big gamer |
| 00:08.23 | starseeker | Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it |
| 00:08.45 | starseeker | I didn't do enough video games at a young age to acquire the shooting precision |
| 00:08.47 | louipc | I like to play the games to see if I can fix bugs hehe |
| 00:08.59 | louipc | open source stuff |
| 00:10.08 | starseeker | Tribes I was IMHO the high water mark of that type of game - Tribes2 just doesn't have the same feel |
| 00:11.07 | starseeker | Reaper3d actually had a very nice looking engine, but it's been dead for years now |
| 00:11.42 | louipc | I find the problem with a lot of games is that they hog cpu |
| 00:11.47 | louipc | even for dumb 2d games |
| 00:12.12 | starseeker | Indeed |
| 00:12.34 | starseeker | the old school guys from 30 years ago would be aghast at the use of hardware today... |
| 00:13.13 | louipc | yeah |
| 00:13.57 | starseeker | I think if hardware ever does reach some kind of stable performance we will see some major upheaval in programming styles... |
| 00:15.55 | louipc | well we need better innovation in hardware architectures and such |
| 00:16.02 | louipc | no more x86 :P |
| 00:55.58 | brlcad | trainman419: erhm, yeah .. not really any ray-tracer uses opengl accelleration; opengl is general raster image processor, ray-tracing is not a raster rendering |
| 00:56.36 | brlcad | the final rendered image can be displayed into an opengl context, but you're still just displaying an image and don't necessarily need opengl for that |
| 00:57.06 | brlcad | the modeler (mged) could leverage opengl a lot, but mged doesn't require opengl for what it does either |
| 00:57.15 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:57.19 | trainman419 | ah, it all makes sense now |
| 00:57.40 | ``Erik | erm |
| 00:57.51 | ``Erik | raytracing can use ogl to rasterize... it'd just be, y'know, ass slow |
| 00:58.52 | ``Erik | BAH, wench got drunk at a wedding and now wants to drive :( stupid whore |
| 00:59.31 | ``Erik | :( |
| 01:00.15 | trainman419 | yeah, I'm just used to things like solidworks that show rasteriezed images rather than raytraced images |
| 01:00.44 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD doesn't have a "quick view" functionality, sorry |
| 01:00.46 | Maloeran | Mmhm. You didn't go with her, Erik, despites the free alcohol? :) |
| 01:00.48 | brlcad | they have ray-trace functions too, just not their main graphics display |
| 01:00.58 | brlcad | at least solidworks does |
| 01:00.59 | ``Erik | dislacement issue, mal |
| 01:01.28 | ``Erik | he father is ill and in kc, so that's where she is :/ |
| 01:01.38 | Maloeran | Oh.. |
| 01:01.59 | ``Erik | kansas city, missouri |
| 01:02.08 | brlcad | trainman419: our next modeling interface will intently utilize opengl through and through for the modeling interface |
| 01:02.56 | brlcad | tarzeau: where does the build fail for you with CFLAGS="-O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" ... that seems to be working for me (on RHEL4) |
| 01:03.00 | trainman419 | awesome! will that be in mged or archer? (or something new?) |
| 01:03.14 | ``Erik | the pasted message was a compiler warning, not an error |
| 01:04.36 | brlcad | trainman419: neither, new interface |
| 01:05.43 | brlcad | he's been working on that for years |
| 01:05.46 | brlcad | little by little |
| 01:05.57 | ``Erik | yeah, but now he has bucks behind him |
| 01:06.00 | brlcad | too draining to only do that, even for him |
| 01:06.07 | brlcad | i mean even before |
| 01:06.14 | brlcad | he started that before you arrived |
| 01:06.18 | brlcad | heck, before I started |
| 01:06.19 | ``Erik | *nod* |
| 01:06.26 | ``Erik | it's the right thing to do |
| 01:06.28 | ``Erik | just not sexy |
| 01:06.34 | brlcad | it is, just tons of grunt |
| 01:07.01 | ``Erik | if he can commit 10% time to it, it's a major win |
| 01:07.09 | brlcad | Bob's not the greatest at refactoring sometimes, a lot of very short term fixes without the refactoring |
| 01:07.21 | brlcad | often detrimental to what he has to deal with down the road |
| 01:07.27 | brlcad | or what others have to do to maintain it.. |
| 01:07.37 | brlcad | the code gets there though |
| 01:07.37 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:07.56 | ``Erik | I'd hope that if he puts effort there, it'd spin off work |
| 01:08.48 | ``Erik | for laid code, ... windows or tcl :/ |
| 01:09.00 | brlcad | yeah, just having a few more working on development will make a big change |
| 01:09.13 | brlcad | maybe even start to look like what things were like before M3 |
| 01:09.23 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:09.24 | starseeker | M3? |
| 01:09.27 | ``Erik | :( |
| 01:09.28 | brlcad | still need two more though at minimally |
| 01:09.39 | brlcad | *minimally* |
| 01:09.42 | ``Erik | the project that killed the momentum of BRL-CAD, star |
| 01:09.48 | starseeker | ouch |
| 01:10.45 | ``Erik | the core idea was actually good, but pointy hairs got a hold of it... then gutted "the cad team", then proceeded to chase most of 'em away with micromanagement |
| 01:10.57 | brlcad | rather.. stole motivation, funding, attention, developers, ... |
| 01:11.32 | brlcad | alas, those are more and more turning into just history with the surge of new interest |
| 01:11.57 | brlcad | just took a few years for the turnaround |
| 01:11.58 | starseeker | alas? Are good ideas being lost? |
| 01:12.03 | brlcad | everything happens in waves |
| 01:12.26 | ``Erik | good ideas were had and given... interpretation... ... heh... |
| 01:12.39 | brlcad | "alas", hopefully the brunt of the bad days are behind us now |
| 01:13.12 | brlcad | for our group at least, it's changing |
| 01:13.22 | ``Erik | yeah.... I'm bitter |
| 01:13.23 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 01:13.44 | ``Erik | the best aspect I see is that the GPL/LGPL/BSD push worked |
| 01:14.00 | ``Erik | <-- likes to pretend he had a serious roll in that *shrgu* |
| 01:14.10 | starseeker | That's virtually miraculous - I still remember the shock when I saw the announcement |
| 01:14.12 | brlcad | yeah, the diverted attention helped that in a (very) minor regard |
| 01:14.39 | ``Erik | (the part I meant was the automake vs cake side) |
| 01:15.12 | brlcad | yeah, thank jeebus we don't still have to deal with cake hell |
| 01:15.18 | ``Erik | ehehhehe |
| 01:15.28 | ``Erik | I was dumbstruck on seeing tht |
| 01:15.32 | brlcad | for all of the autohell, it wasn't as bad as cakehell |
| 01:15.41 | brlcad | s/wasn't/isn't/ |
| 01:15.53 | ``Erik | and that lee said "it's broken? ok, go fix it"... |
| 01:15.58 | ``Erik | that was a good state |
| 01:16.06 | starseeker | Some of the national labs have open source stuff (Paraview is an example) but I don't recall anything similar coming from the Army side except GRASS |
| 01:16.48 | ``Erik | hum, cool |
| 01:17.03 | brlcad | starseeker: technically grass was just "given away" when it was done, public domained because it was a done/dead project |
| 01:17.06 | ``Erik | I stepped in and was working on the fbsd port and autotools before I even got an account |
| 01:17.18 | starseeker | brlcad: Oh, OK. |
| 01:17.35 | brlcad | only because the community stepped up and a few took ownership (and claimed a copyright after significant changes) did it become open source |
| 01:17.40 | ``Erik | perhaps just "a place to put" the new guy O:-) |
| 01:17.52 | starseeker | I pointed it out to my dad a few times - I don't know if anyone in his group ever took a poke at it or not |
| 01:18.43 | starseeker | It looked/looks impressive, for it's problem domain (not that I'm an expert in that field) |
| 01:19.14 | ``Erik | starseeker: do you use ttcp? ping? tcp/ip? mr muuss was a heavy hitter in those in the name of the army... |
| 01:19.42 | brlcad | as far as I discovered during the legal research, BRL-CAD was the first *active* project in U.S. Army that I could find that went straight to open source licensing |
| 01:19.57 | starseeker | ``Erik: Yes, I'd read about that. I regret arriving too late on the scene to ever get a chance to meet Mike Muss |
| 01:20.06 | ``Erik | me too :( |
| 01:20.27 | starseeker | brlcad: I can believe it. It's a very impressive accomplishment |
| 01:20.28 | brlcad | maybe even first in DoD, but that's not likely .. just nothing really popular/notorious or at least that I was able to find after a lot of searching and contact prodding |
| 01:20.49 | ``Erik | first as in conception date or ? |
| 01:21.14 | brlcad | first to release code legally as OSS |
| 01:21.38 | brlcad | non public-domain |
| 01:21.55 | ``Erik | heh,t hat's artificial, dude |
| 01:21.56 | brlcad | there are plenty of public domain examples that have been picked up |
| 01:22.01 | ``Erik | pd is oss friendly |
| 01:22.55 | ``Erik | also; |
| 01:22.58 | brlcad | not so much that it "died" but that the group that created it no longer was directed to maintain it |
| 01:23.11 | ``Erik | brlcad, *smack* it's MUVES-3, don't sully the name "m3", my car deserves better |
| 01:23.30 | starseeker | brlcad: Ah, that will do it |
| 01:23.59 | ``Erik | many projects have survived the originator... that's the beauty of oss, it CAN survive |
| 01:24.00 | brlcad | yes, PD is OSS, but it's not like it takes any active effort and is almost always done on a "done" code |
| 01:24.35 | brlcad | licenseless vs picking an OSS license |
| 01:24.48 | ``Erik | should I hack in gettext support on ping and do an "army" release? :D |
| 01:25.02 | brlcad | dude, are you totally missing the point? |
| 01:25.24 | brlcad | it's not the same |
| 01:25.41 | starseeker | brlcad: I guess in a sense Maxima falls into that category too - it was originally under DOE control (which is why it still has that rather odd note about US arms export restrictions in the copying file...) |
| 01:25.47 | ``Erik | apparently O.o *shrug* I don't equate gpl and oss :( |
| 01:26.22 | ``Erik | doe has dumped a fair bit of interesting stuff |
| 01:26.23 | brlcad | mabye if I qualified it as an OSS *license* as opposed to just OSS |
| 01:26.58 | ``Erik | unfortunately, 'cougaar' was completely ignored by this certain army group... *cough* |
| 01:27.08 | brlcad | I don't know of another example outside the nat. labs, nasa, and a few other gov't groups that have gone straight to licensed OSS |
| 01:27.33 | ``Erik | isn't pd on the osi list? |
| 01:27.41 | brlcad | PD isn't a license |
| 01:27.54 | brlcad | being PD does make you OSS, but it's not a license |
| 01:27.55 | ``Erik | heh, it's past license :D |
| 01:27.57 | starseeker | PD is simply a renouncing of copyright rights |
| 01:28.42 | ``Erik | starseeker: I'd actaully be a bit scared of that code... heavy assembly (even if well written), classic C style, ... |
| 01:29.05 | ``Erik | lookin' at the 4.3 bsd code was humbling |
| 01:29.26 | starseeker | ``Erik: I suppose that's true - the idea of the debugging they do and the methodology they use is actually what interests me the most |
| 01:29.36 | *** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) | |
| 01:29.50 | ``Erik | I know that faa restrictions of software development is... insane |
| 01:30.15 | starseeker | Assuming this article knew what it was talking about, that is: http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html |
| 01:32.48 | ``Erik | and I'm sure they dont' trust the software 100% :D |
| 01:34.33 | starseeker | ``Erik: Overstated? |
| 01:35.06 | ``Erik | um, cmmi is an interesting notion and probably has value, btu the implementation as it stands is ... |
| 01:35.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:35.39 | ``Erik | amusingly enoughl, gillich said something brilliant about cmmi... "it's a yard stick" |
| 01:35.43 | ``Erik | or something to that nature |
| 01:36.08 | ``Erik | in itself, it offers nothing... it's merely a possible mechanism to measure with |
| 01:36.52 | starseeker | Ah |
| 01:40.24 | starseeker | brlcad: There's a question on the Gentoo bug about AMD64 - for some reason it didn't find itcl/itk if I'm reading that message right, but I don't know why itcl/itk would fail on AMD64? |
| 01:41.02 | ``Erik | tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidigts all worsk fine on amd64 fbsd |
| 01:41.14 | starseeker | That's what I thought. Hmm. |
| 01:41.59 | starseeker | He says it works in chrooted 32 bit environment. Odd |
| 01:48.20 | starseeker | Monday morning could be a little rough... |
| 01:49.22 | ``Erik | <- doesn't work on monday :D |
| 01:49.46 | starseeker | Ah - that helps |
| 01:50.28 | brlcad | starseeker: see if they can provide a configure and build log as well as the config.log somewhere |
| 01:50.40 | ``Erik | *grump* stupid wench is drunk as fuck :( |
| 01:51.10 | ``Erik | ~bzpastebin |
| 01:51.19 | ibot | bzpastebin is probably http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 01:51.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:51.38 | ``Erik | probably. |
| 01:52.02 | ``Erik | "without their heads, they're powerless!" |
| 01:52.35 | starseeker | brlcad: Request posted. |
| 01:53.27 | brlcad | thanks |
| 01:53.31 | starseeker | np |
| 01:53.36 | ``Erik | I'd totally get on anna faris. |
| 01:53.50 | starseeker | brlcad: Oh, did you see my last question about b-reps? |
| 01:54.34 | brlcad | mm |
| 01:54.34 | brlcad | nope |
| 01:54.53 | starseeker | probably dumb, but if you're bored... |
| 01:55.16 | starseeker | Naive question - the existence of brep at a primitive level - how does that make the core logic of model -> mesh simpler? Would it mean that models would have to be rebuilt with the new primitive or would the conversion of old primitives to b-rep be less expensive? |
| 01:55.38 | brlcad | brep as a primitive provides the base-level representation |
| 01:55.52 | brlcad | you still need a means to load up existing implicits as a brep |
| 01:56.09 | ``Erik | notionally, if we had a fast ->brep conversion method, we know brep->triangles is fast, so we could bypass all the nmg bs |
| 01:56.31 | brlcad | fortunately, that part actually isn't that bad -- you can create an ellipsoid brep if you have the implicit form pretty straightforward |
| 01:56.44 | brlcad | yep, it bypasses the whole mess |
| 01:56.51 | starseeker | Swwweeeettt |
| 01:57.09 | brlcad | the hardest part (and it certainly is non-trivial, but easier than the nmg approach) is CSG evaluation of BREPS |
| 01:57.16 | ``Erik | nmg tries to do some tricky stuff from a poor starting point :( also; it's fucking ugly |
| 01:58.05 | brlcad | csg evaluation of breps involves creating new brep surfaces that trim away various parts of arbitrary surfaces and weaves in other surfaces |
| 01:58.33 | ``Erik | is it still a weave in brep space? |
| 01:58.34 | brlcad | numerically should be a heck of a lot more stable simply because you retain the actual structure instead of something that's been deconstructed already |
| 01:59.10 | starseeker | Nice. IIRC, you said the csg evaluation is the main remaining component? |
| 01:59.25 | ``Erik | the weave notion is brilliant for striaght raytracing, but is bass ackwards for anything else :( |
| 01:59.28 | brlcad | yeah, you still have to attach surfaces from object A to those of object B (assuming they overlap) trimming off the parts on the interior or in negative space |
| 01:59.43 | brlcad | it's not that kind of weaving |
| 01:59.56 | ``Erik | <- thinking boolweave |
| 01:59.56 | brlcad | just my terminology for attaching the two |
| 02:00.03 | brlcad | yeah, nothing at all like boolweave |
| 02:00.33 | brlcad | even current nmg approach has nothing to do with boolweave |
| 02:00.40 | ``Erik | and for straight up "through" raytracing, I doubt I'd have thought of anything that clever |
| 02:01.05 | ``Erik | I'd probably have been stuck on resolving the geometry before shooting it :D |
| 02:01.09 | starseeker | phew - maybe not a dumb question :-) I was afraid I was missing something obvious, but it sounds like a very elegant mathematical workaround |
| 02:01.10 | brlcad | it's approach actually isn't much different either other than the surface patches are an order or two smaller than the average BREP surfaces |
| 02:01.43 | ``Erik | but these days, resolving the geometry is becoming more important |
| 02:02.27 | brlcad | NMGs actually are a BREP.. just most people implicitly mean spline surface boundary representation when they say brep, not n-manifold polygonal boundary representation |
| 02:02.28 | ``Erik | even wireframe, just having the 'cutters' rendered intuitively... |
| 02:02.52 | starseeker | brlcad: Is there a good paper on the mathematics of geometry->brep and brep->mesh conversion mathematics? |
| 02:02.54 | ``Erik | nmg is almost always associated with tesselating |
| 02:02.59 | brlcad | having this done would make it possible to show the interior plot lines too |
| 02:03.54 | brlcad | yeah, technically our nmg lib can handle nurbs too -- that's how stay's nurbs code was written -- but the main and original use is polygonal |
| 02:04.24 | ``Erik | but jay-lo's code doesn't hit nmg? |
| 02:04.27 | brlcad | starseeker: several books, but there's not really a single good paper on it |
| 02:04.36 | brlcad | nope, he avoided nmg entirely |
| 02:04.42 | brlcad | and intentionally |
| 02:04.47 | brlcad | uses opennurbs instead of nmg |
| 02:04.55 | ``Erik | one of these days, he's gonna kick my ass for calling him jay lo |
| 02:04.55 | brlcad | for the representation |
| 02:05.07 | starseeker | brlcad: Books work, if they aren't $$$$$ on Amazon ;-) |
| 02:05.29 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:05.37 | brlcad | starseeker: wait till you're on-site -- there's plenty of books you can get |
| 02:05.44 | brlcad | if you get on-site of course :) |
| 02:05.48 | starseeker | brlcad: cool |
| 02:06.04 | ``Erik | there was that paper that had omfg fast raytracing and ->bot conversion on NURBS, I think? at utah? |
| 02:06.16 | brlcad | yeah, that's a great paper, but not a great into paper |
| 02:06.21 | brlcad | s/into/intro/ |
| 02:06.29 | brlcad | RT06 paper |
| 02:06.30 | ``Erik | heh, no, it assumes base competency |
| 02:07.00 | ``Erik | starseeker: if you're up to the challenge, someone will get you the info. |
| 02:07.44 | ``Erik | on sight or not |
| 02:07.45 | Maloeran | thinks* too |
| 02:07.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:08.06 | ``Erik | write up a paper, submit to ieee rt and siggraph :D |
| 02:08.13 | Maloeran | Sounds boring :) |
| 02:08.16 | brlcad | starseeker: just searching google will pull up a handful of papers |
| 02:08.24 | starseeker | brlcad: OK :-) |
| 02:09.02 | starseeker | ``Erik: This one? Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces - Oliver Abert, Markus Geimer, Stefan Muller |
| 02:09.20 | Maloeran | These curved triangles would require more primitives than nurbs, but are so much cheaper for rays to intersect |
| 02:09.44 | ``Erik | I'm sure they're much less expressive than t-nurbs |
| 02:10.28 | Maloeran | They wouldn't describe nurbs perfectly, but it sure can be a good compromise for performance and accuracy, between nurbs and triangles |
| 02:10.37 | ``Erik | I think so, starseeker |
| 02:10.49 | ``Erik | I think I'm thinking of "Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces |
| 02:10.50 | ``Erik | Oliver Abert, Markus Geimer, Stefan Muller" |
| 02:10.55 | ``Erik | http://www.sci.utah.edu/~wald/RT06/papers/papers_presentations.html |
| 02:11.20 | starseeker | Yep - hmm, no direct link |
| 02:11.39 | ``Erik | I have the book sitting ontop of my winderz spaceheater |
| 02:11.41 | Maloeran | I would scan and send if I had a scanner |
| 02:11.51 | brlcad | e.g. http://www.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/~gk/docs/162CT.pdf |
| 02:11.51 | starseeker | Google to the rescue, I think... |
| 02:11.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:12.06 | brlcad | starseeker: also a pretty good in-depth thesis read: http://cadd.web.cern.ch/cadd/cad_geant_int/thesis/vaitos_main.html |
| 02:12.17 | ``Erik | and mal just sat there coding and gawking at college chicas instead of listening |
| 02:12.21 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:12.50 | Maloeran | I think you were the one dreaming of college chicas. There was one girl in the entire audience at that conference? :) |
| 02:12.53 | starseeker | Cool - GEANT :-). I wacked my head trying to get that to compile for Gentoo once ;-) |
| 02:12.55 | brlcad | and yeah, that's the rt06 paper |
| 02:13.12 | ``Erik | was a good conf... didn't hurt with the awesomeness like siggraph, but was far better than the javaone pep rally |
| 02:13.35 | ``Erik | there were a few girls in the group, but the eye candy was when we were out of the conf room |
| 02:13.36 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:13.39 | starseeker | http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~mgm/papers/rt06.pdf seems to be ``Erik's but it's not coughing it up right now - I'll try later |
| 02:13.50 | starseeker | brlcad: Thanks :-) |
| 02:13.54 | ``Erik | (though the girl from unc wasn't hard on the eyes, and smrrt, too) |
| 02:14.03 | brlcad | there actually are a fair bit of good references and implementations for tessellation of breps -- to varying degrees of water tightness |
| 02:14.28 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:14.29 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:14.38 | ``Erik | during the poster presentation, she had the huge crowd |
| 02:14.44 | Maloeran | Ahah |
| 02:14.55 | ``Erik | something about using gpu's to trace complex structures or something |
| 02:15.09 | ``Erik | uh, she was hardware side iirc |
| 02:15.09 | Maloeran | I think I prefer a girl that can teach me stuff radically different than maths and code |
| 02:15.09 | brlcad | grid of gpus |
| 02:15.34 | ``Erik | brlcad still wanks thinkin' about her :D *duck* |
| 02:16.41 | brlcad | actually don't remember what she even looked like |
| 02:16.46 | brlcad | but do remember that she was there |
| 02:17.34 | ``Erik | heh, I was mroe boggled that something worth seeing came out of unc than that there was a woman presenting |
| 02:17.45 | brlcad | shirley's paper relates a bit to what we've currently got implemented: http://www.cs.utah.edu/~shirley/papers/raynurbs.pdf |
| 02:17.53 | ``Erik | peter shirly? |
| 02:17.59 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:18.05 | ``Erik | isn't he leeberts advisor? |
| 02:18.27 | brlcad | could be |
| 02:18.48 | ``Erik | peter and ingo were the two people lee was sucking up to |
| 02:18.52 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 02:19.15 | ``Erik | and ingo is a fresh associate, I think |
| 02:19.59 | brlcad | I believe ingo left for intel |
| 02:20.07 | brlcad | started the week of siggraph |
| 02:20.13 | brlcad | that's why he wasn't there |
| 02:20.34 | starseeker | brlcad,``Erik: I've got to call it a night, but I appreciate the references - thanks much! |
| 02:20.41 | brlcad | starseeker: see ya |
| 02:20.56 | ``Erik | huh |
| 02:21.01 | ``Erik | later, starseeker :D |
| 02:21.28 | ``Erik | intel must be droppin' some real coin for a cool job, I mean |
| 02:21.41 | ``Erik | reshetov, now wald? |
| 02:23.53 | Maloeran | Wald writes a lot, but doesn't have much to say |
| 02:24.09 | ``Erik | he's smart and capable, but he tries to dominate discussions, from what I saw |
| 02:24.18 | Maloeran | Yes, he likes to be at the center of things |
| 02:24.46 | ``Erik | it's good that he does what he does, but he aint' the bees knees :D |
| 02:25.16 | louipc | what is good about bees' knees? |
| 02:25.31 | ``Erik | (and, uh, I"d rather have a loud arrogant wald publishing papers than a real clever chicken who just writes proprietary code. *cough*) |
| 02:26.02 | ``Erik | I can read a paper and learn :D |
| 02:26.05 | brlcad | he has gotten stuff done -- simply (and proactively) goes after getting attention for it too |
| 02:26.20 | brlcad | to each their own, getting stuff done is what matters |
| 02:26.30 | brlcad | and if you don't tell anyone about it, then you might as well have not done it |
| 02:26.55 | louipc | indeed you need to ruffle some feathers |
| 02:27.00 | ``Erik | hacking up some brilliant code and then locking the notions down by not putting source or papers out ... |
| 02:27.29 | ``Erik | patents might actually be worse |
| 02:27.40 | ``Erik | :D |
| 02:27.58 | Maloeran | Fine fine, I get the point :) |
| 02:28.10 | ``Erik | anyways, papers are good |
| 02:28.31 | ``Erik | the error smelled of broken system when first pasted :( |
| 02:28.33 | Maloeran | Sure papers are good, I'm just annoyed by the number of papers devoid of any content |
| 02:28.43 | ``Erik | ok... mal... fix that. |
| 02:28.50 | ``Erik | kick out a paper or 3 with content |
| 02:29.21 | ``Erik | most papers value is in tiny incremental steps :/ not too many are brilliant strides of length, these days |
| 02:29.30 | brlcad | ever |
| 02:29.40 | Maloeran | I thought I wrote some 3-4 pages that contained what mattered |
| 02:29.52 | ``Erik | I'm still in awe at the brilliance of CS papers from the 50's and 60's given the state at the time |
| 02:29.53 | brlcad | always the case, not all of them can be seminal papers :) |
| 02:30.27 | brlcad | i was just watching sutherland's sketchpad demo earlier today |
| 02:30.33 | brlcad | seriously impressive for the time |
| 02:30.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:30.39 | ``Erik | make burga buy you real aussie beer. |
| 02:30.46 | ``Erik | or I will fucking kick his ass |
| 02:30.51 | Maloeran | Ahah, fine |
| 02:30.57 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:31.03 | ``Erik | he's in sydney? |
| 02:31.15 | Maloeran | Brisbane, I'll be staying just a day in Sydney before going up there |
| 02:31.16 | ``Erik | I wanna say, uh, perth has something called uh, 'black swan'? |
| 02:31.25 | Maloeran | And what is it? |
| 02:31.27 | brlcad | have a chiko roll while you're there |
| 02:31.28 | ``Erik | that my dad claimed was damn good |
| 02:31.32 | brlcad | i hear they're pretty yummy |
| 02:31.40 | Maloeran | A chicken roll? |
| 02:31.42 | ``Erik | oh, also; hit the beach and romp some of that hot aussie tail |
| 02:31.43 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 02:32.14 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiko_Roll |
| 02:32.26 | Maloeran | I know Erik, I was already instructed by Sophie to do so o.O |
| 02:32.40 | Maloeran | Curious snack |
| 02:33.09 | ``Erik | hum |
| 02:33.10 | brlcad | http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/upfromaustralia/chikochick.jpg |
| 02:33.14 | brlcad | http://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/a5/a8/1441_1.JPG |
| 02:33.15 | ``Erik | damnit |
| 02:33.19 | ``Erik | now I want some lumpia :( |
| 02:33.41 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpia |
| 02:33.58 | brlcad | "was designed to be able to be eaten with one hand whilst drinking a beer with the other" <-- chiko roll |
| 02:34.06 | Maloeran | Inspiring |
| 02:35.20 | ``Erik | the lumpia my mom makes is mostly carrot, cabbage and beef, about the size of a finger, deep fat fried |
| 02:36.09 | Maloeran | I'm mostly looking forward to scuba diving over there |
| 02:36.15 | Maloeran | And rock climbing of course |
| 02:36.15 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:36.24 | Maloeran | I'll have to find people for that though, Burga doesn't climb |
| 02:36.25 | ``Erik | um, atch out for the sea snakes |
| 02:36.40 | ``Erik | my dad has some stories about running into sea snakes in aussie waters O.o |
| 02:36.52 | ``Erik | highly venemous fuckers |
| 02:37.09 | Maloeran | Are they dangerous even when wearing a wet suit? |
| 02:37.21 | ``Erik | yeah, theyc an be up to 6' long |
| 02:37.48 | ``Erik | barracudas out there, too |
| 02:37.50 | Maloeran | Hum, ouch. I'm reading about these for the first time |
| 02:38.05 | Maloeran | Jellyfishes are usually no big deal with a wet suit |
| 02:38.14 | ``Erik | nah, they're surface stingers |
| 02:38.16 | ``Erik | not biters |
| 02:38.18 | brlcad | Maloeran: give a try at surfing if you're near a coast |
| 02:38.21 | brlcad | some of the best surfing to be had |
| 02:38.35 | ``Erik | teeth go through wetsuits |
| 02:38.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/Makefile.am: gah, merge from head .. need TCLSTUB to be included else there be unresolved symbols on Mac and now also seen on Linux too |
| 02:38.52 | Maloeran | Sure I'll try. I wasn't too good at that when I tried in Mexico |
| 02:39.07 | Maloeran | ( At least in comparison to Sophie who is a snowboard teacher ) |
| 02:39.15 | ``Erik | if ya shake up north a bit, hit okinawa :D I lived there for 3 yrs |
| 02:39.16 | brlcad | meh, still like ten times more likely you're going to get slammed into in your car on the way to the beach than you are to be bit at the beach |
| 02:39.31 | ``Erik | indeed, heh |
| 02:39.41 | ``Erik | don't fuck with an animal, and it won't fuck with you |
| 02:39.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 02:40.00 | brlcad | unless you can buy her a drink first |
| 02:40.02 | Maloeran | Thanks for this piece of wisdom :) |
| 02:40.09 | ``Erik | hehe |
| 02:40.20 | ``Erik | mmmm, hot aussie tail |
| 02:42.30 | brlcad | that's the second "already fixed on head" issue i've found now .. drat drat |
| 02:43.15 | Maloeran | That's a curious wedding ceremony |
| 02:43.27 | ``Erik | 7.12.0 yo |
| 02:53.36 | brlcad | hm.. setting LDFLAGS does seem to cause it to not pass the X11 flags through, fails at blt |
| 02:55.12 | brlcad | ah, they're actually not listed for blt |
| 02:57.28 | ``Erik | http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1782347 |
| 03:00.24 | ``Erik | "panburger partner" O.o |
| 03:00.28 | ``Erik | http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1781996 |
| 03:04.32 | *** join/#brlcad tttttt (n=root@222.190.111.98) | |
| 03:04.45 | tttttt | cvvcnbbn |
| 03:05.58 | *** part/#brlcad tttttt (n=root@222.190.111.98) | |
| 03:07.04 | ``Erik | ssoommeeoonnee nneeeeddss ttoo ttuurrnn ooffff eecchhoo |
| 03:07.14 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 03:08.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: blt actually makes direct calls to X11, so need to include the goods here else face the wrath of unresolved symbols on some plats (encountered on RHEL) |
| 03:11.05 | brlcad | woot root |
| 03:28.03 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:28.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: blt *requires* X11 to function, turn it off if x11 isn't available |
| 03:28.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: I have no clue what a "BUFXIZE" is, but I know what BUFSIZ is... |
| 03:31.06 | bpoole | haha. BUFXIZE? |
| 03:31.53 | ``Erik | that's what was in teh source |
| 03:31.59 | ``Erik | and I rpobably did it :( |
| 03:32.47 | bpoole | gj. |
| 03:33.58 | ``Erik | actually, it was brlcad that did that, heh |
| 03:34.05 | ``Erik | - strncat(suffix, suffix2, BUFSIZ); |
| 03:34.05 | ``Erik | + snprintf(suffix, BUFXIZE, "%s", suffix2); |
| 03:34.35 | ``Erik | bad chris, bad! |
| 03:34.47 | ``Erik | 1.46 -> 1.47 |
| 03:36.24 | brlcad | yep, just a simple typo |
| 03:36.47 | brlcad | not the first, undoubtedly the last |
| 03:37.07 | brlcad | if that's the only one after about 1000 of them, my error rate is prety freaking sweet |
| 03:37.19 | ``Erik | and I felt bad cuz I let a commit go without proper build testing |
| 03:37.38 | brlcad | i even built, for whatever reason it passed the build |
| 03:37.53 | ``Erik | I can't think of why, other than bad timestamping |
| 03:38.01 | brlcad | or some sys header that had it |
| 03:38.03 | ``Erik | there's no cpp switch on that |
| 03:38.17 | ``Erik | BUFXIZE ? O.o |
| 03:38.44 | ``Erik | #include <myfingersaretwistedandunusablebecauseIuseemacs.h> |
| 03:40.09 | brlcad | uh huh, that had nothing to do with emacs |
| 03:40.36 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 03:40.56 | ``Erik | actually, I lost my emacs session |
| 03:41.17 | ``Erik | power outage dropped the machine, and I was kinda operating in the 'emacs is my os' mode :/ |
| 03:41.46 | bpoole | ``Erik: how's that going for you ? (emacs) |
| 03:41.56 | brlcad | trivial typos are my favorite kind of build errors.. because they're obvious, generally easy to provoke, and easy to fix .. typos, transposed lines, missing terminators, etc |
| 03:42.45 | ``Erik | been busy with other things, ben... got a machine on loan to replace my "stable" machine, so trying to get the ports updated :/ |
| 03:43.58 | brlcad | a good indicator of how involved someone is with a project too -- those involved just fix it and go on, those not as closely involved seem compelled to complain or comment |
| 03:44.26 | brlcad | seen that happen on at least a half-dozen oss projects .. and in-house closed |
| 03:44.57 | brlcad | not a black and white meter, but interesting trend nonetheless |
| 03:45.28 | ``Erik | I fixed it AND whined, and not on paid time, so foff :D |
| 03:45.56 | brlcad | I didn't take that as a whine |
| 03:47.42 | brlcad | talking more the sort that sit on the error without even reading it, throw their hands up and cry "it's broken !! omfg!" |
| 03:48.26 | brlcad | s/more/specifically/ |
| 03:50.29 | ``Erik | we call those "gentoo portage maintainers" ;) *duck* |
| 03:50.33 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 03:50.36 | brlcad | see it *all* the time on BZ in particular, you would have thought the world had ended |
| 03:51.01 | ``Erik | games are a harsh place to be in general |
| 03:51.14 | brlcad | don't even have to compile-test, there are like two dozen kiddies that will let you know within an hour crying |
| 03:51.54 | ``Erik | <-- generally tries to at least compile to object before committing |
| 03:52.08 | ``Erik | but I've commited assuming it's right before... like the clone MFC ... O:-) |
| 03:52.36 | ``Erik | I've been angling more towards heavy testing though... 'distcheck' on releases, etc |
| 03:52.40 | brlcad | yeah, everyone does it from time to time |
| 03:52.46 | brlcad | i think that's part of the behavior |
| 03:53.08 | ``Erik | my personal projects are generally unbranched... |
| 03:53.12 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: partial merge from head, need x11 |
| 03:53.32 | ``Erik | actually, I have one that's close to another release, but I'm waffling due to license issues |
| 03:53.38 | brlcad | the folks that do that a lot 'generally' tend to be more fluid and not so annoyed/concerned .. those that don't so frequently.. |
| 03:53.54 | ``Erik | the code is under BSD license, I'm trying to decide whether to throw out a version that has gettext support |
| 03:54.00 | brlcad | lee actually tended to do that more and more over the years the less he coded |
| 03:54.17 | ``Erik | internationalization is a good thing, but the license concern.. |
| 03:56.07 | brlcad | I don't like to give anyone shit about it unless they press the point |
| 03:56.10 | brlcad | EVERYONE does it |
| 03:56.12 | ``Erik | if I push on gettext on my personal projects, I might try adding it to brlcad |
| 03:56.13 | brlcad | deal with it |
| 03:56.27 | ``Erik | yeah, everyone does it, but if ya never get grief, you dont' try to get better |
| 03:56.29 | brlcad | gettext is gpl... |
| 03:56.39 | brlcad | that's not true |
| 03:56.40 | ``Erik | when I fuck up, call me on it... I'll try to improve |
| 03:57.02 | ``Erik | <-- more in teh 'harsh abrasive' camp O:-) |
| 03:57.12 | brlcad | i mean there are a few that are pathologically bad at making broken commits.. but they're pretty darn rare |
| 03:57.27 | brlcad | i don't think that helps, myself |
| 03:57.35 | ``Erik | yeah, *shrug* but I'm an asshole |
| 03:57.37 | brlcad | just adds tension |
| 03:58.02 | ``Erik | I haze with a smile, it's about the quality above all |
| 03:58.10 | brlcad | especially when it's really trivial crap that doesn't matter one bit and is really obvious |
| 03:58.44 | brlcad | i mean, optimization of effort -- there are bigger issues to be complaining about and working on than typo commits |
| 03:58.55 | ``Erik | of course, I had some beat-down experiences where doubel-checking before hitting the button seriously matters |
| 03:59.28 | brlcad | yeah, if you're changing core code, or without regard to the impact, understandable |
| 03:59.43 | ``Erik | sysadmin on machines where a typo could mean several millions of dollars lost and standing in a vp's office explaining exactly how ya fucked up and how it'll never happen again... |
| 04:00.09 | ``Erik | so I'm pretty ashamed of that macro issue in the clone.c mfc :( |
| 04:00.17 | brlcad | sysadmin's a diff matter, you don't have the revision control safety net and 'undo' revertability usually |
| 04:00.20 | ``Erik | (yes, it bugs me) |
| 04:00.33 | ``Erik | actually, ya do in a good sa situation |
| 04:00.33 | brlcad | see, that's a meh issue to me other than being so close to release |
| 04:00.43 | brlcad | it would have been caught on the final compilation test |
| 04:00.55 | ``Erik | i wrote a bit of the "move to production" subsystem |
| 04:01.15 | ``Erik | it was all cvs or rcs backed, it all had complete 'undo' capability |
| 04:01.34 | ``Erik | and the machines configurations were all managed in a backed up central repo |
| 04:01.35 | ``Erik | uh |
| 04:01.36 | brlcad | yeah, but that's still pretty rare for most places |
| 04:01.37 | ``Erik | g08 |
| 04:02.04 | ``Erik | replace a machine with new hw? one line and it was generated back to production capability |
| 04:02.37 | ``Erik | from what I've heard from friends, it's pretty common for "decent" organizations. :/ I'm annoyed with our environment |
| 04:02.57 | ``Erik | we get ripped on for being "hobby shop", but the crap that's taken away is very much hobby shop |
| 04:03.08 | ``Erik | and I'm not allowed to go fix it *sigh* |
| 04:04.43 | ``Erik | "boob bones" heehhe |
| 04:04.48 | brlcad | imho (not that you're asking) that's because you either ask for/expect permission (hah) or aren't tactful on showing the benefit or hiding the time spent .. |
| 04:05.21 | ``Erik | yeah... I'm very not tactful and too open :/ |
| 04:05.23 | brlcad | path to frustration |
| 04:05.44 | ``Erik | "shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my way" worked dandy at fedex, less politics |
| 04:06.02 | ``Erik | and it's the norm for OSS in my experience |
| 04:06.04 | brlcad | better management |
| 04:06.08 | brlcad | for both |
| 04:06.28 | ``Erik | my line manager at fedex... heh |
| 04:06.34 | ``Erik | he actually fell on his sword. |
| 04:06.36 | ``Erik | *cough* |
| 04:07.03 | ``Erik | he sued his manager and won whiel I was leaving... he really omfg fell on his sword |
| 04:07.09 | brlcad | lee has actually gone to bat for me several times over the years |
| 04:07.19 | ``Erik | me too, so has ed |
| 04:07.39 | ``Erik | I don't leverage them enough :) |
| 04:07.58 | brlcad | true dat |
| 04:08.03 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 04:09.21 | ``Erik | <-- too honest and up front... folk like dwayne seem to appreciate it, but mgmt doesn't |
| 04:09.39 | brlcad | hm, there is a bsd gettext |
| 04:09.57 | brlcad | http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/bsd-gettext/ |
| 04:10.03 | ``Erik | at postgres |
| 04:10.04 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 04:10.18 | ``Erik | <- scratches his chin |
| 04:10.25 | brlcad | that would work |
| 04:10.30 | brlcad | the gnu one is teh evil |
| 04:10.45 | ``Erik | one of my apps (gpl) had gnu gettext and I ended up removing it for some reason |
| 04:10.46 | brlcad | license-wise |
| 04:10.51 | ``Erik | um, rand |
| 04:11.04 | ``Erik | I was looking to add it to timestamp, but the license issue... heh |
| 04:11.19 | brlcad | huh? |
| 04:11.41 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=7 |
| 04:11.46 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=95 |
| 04:12.04 | brlcad | ah |
| 04:12.15 | ``Erik | simple little utils :) |
| 04:13.05 | brlcad | what's running your site there? you wrote software.php and have a descriptor file per project or something? |
| 04:13.56 | ``Erik | um, it's backed by postgres |
| 04:14.09 | ``Erik | software.php just talks to the db |
| 04:14.18 | ``Erik | all scratch written, fairly old |
| 04:14.21 | brlcad | k |
| 04:15.01 | ``Erik | went for a semi-/. feel, wrote it just before /. did the registration stuff iirc |
| 04:15.21 | brlcad | looking to (finally) set up something similar for my data archive, but have been *trying* to avoid custom |
| 04:15.55 | brlcad | something minimal-yet-flexible for my various code and non-code projects |
| 04:15.57 | ``Erik | heh, mycrap has been maintenance for a long time, so it doesn't matter to me |
| 04:16.11 | brlcad | couple hundred that I've ever worked on, some private, most public, all already organized hierarchically |
| 04:16.17 | ``Erik | if I had to start from scratch, i'd probably go for a wiki based thing |
| 04:17.08 | brlcad | hmmm.. i suppose mediawiki could handle it with a custom module |
| 04:17.13 | ``Erik | all my crap shows age :( |
| 04:17.31 | ``Erik | 'rand' and 'vp' before image viewers could do what those do |
| 04:17.46 | brlcad | thing is I don't want to add each project individually, hoping to just create a descriptor file throughout my archive that has the access details, and let the module take care of it |
| 04:18.30 | ``Erik | hum, mine has a form to add each project, and af orm to add each OS to each project, and a from for each release, and a form for each news entry... |
| 04:18.57 | brlcad | hrm, more linkage errors on rhel |
| 04:19.27 | ``Erik | hum, looks like my big web move was in jul '99 |
| 04:19.41 | brlcad | yeah, that works for software, but a lot of mine is fairly 'random' .. lots of non-code projects too |
| 04:20.12 | brlcad | some artwork, some literature, photography |
| 04:20.18 | ``Erik | heh, I should rename the 'articles' to 'essays' I think |
| 04:20.55 | ``Erik | and my fbsd/ directory isn't wired to the db or php, it's just cvs'd html |
| 04:20.56 | brlcad | just about any CMS would work, but I so don't want to "populate" a CMS, I want the archive to be "the" data that the site presents |
| 04:21.10 | ``Erik | wait, it does use php, so I can have a + |
| 04:21.27 | ``Erik | mod_lisp looks interesting |
| 04:21.37 | louipc | oh man php is messy |
| 04:21.44 | ``Erik | I need to test if it can persist contained data |
| 04:22.04 | ``Erik | um, like have each connection thread able to access a 'global' structure |
| 04:26.58 | ``Erik | heh, wow |
| 04:27.33 | *** part/#brlcad trainman419 (n=hendrix@75.15.127.134) | |
| 04:27.41 | ``Erik | 'gwci' before firefox, ... |
| 04:27.49 | ``Erik | iview... my first and only c&d :D |
| 04:37.10 | ``Erik | ehehhee an entry when I bought my first mac :) |
| 04:54.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: more undefined references on RHEL, need LIBGL if opengl is enabled |
| 04:55.51 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: more undefined references on RHEL -- need the deps for rt, bn, and bu |
| 05:18.05 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more RHELness, multispectral needs symbols from optical |
| 05:21.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/Makefile.am: uses libm |
| 05:26.30 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): more flawfinding quellage and bu_exiting |
| 05:26.45 | ``Erik | tequila is evil. |
| 05:28.15 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: quell constness warnings, make the editor string const |
| 05:28.28 | louipc | wowsers |
| 05:28.34 | brlcad | hey ``Erik .. question for ya |
| 05:28.46 | brlcad | probably not the best time if your tequealing |
| 05:28.52 | brlcad | but .. |
| 05:29.38 | brlcad | trying to come up with some way to add -Werror to the build now that we're almost completely warningless on some platforms ..... but not for anything in src/other |
| 05:29.54 | brlcad | any ideas? |
| 05:30.01 | louipc | hacking drunk is a blast |
| 05:30.07 | louipc | well anything drunk is a blast |
| 05:30.10 | brlcad | :) |
| 05:33.58 | ``Erik | heh, uhhhh |
| 05:34.26 | ``Erik | I kinda had the notion of moving $(top_srcdir)/src/other to $(top_srcdir)/contrib |
| 05:34.37 | ``Erik | so abuse can be applied to src/ without crap getting in the mix |
| 05:35.17 | ``Erik | I don't know of any way to undo a cflag without automake bitching |
| 05:35.54 | brlcad | maybe after svn |
| 05:36.07 | ``Erik | *nod* would be ugly on cvs |
| 05:36.09 | brlcad | that's one way I suppose, could then add it to the subtree |
| 05:36.45 | ``Erik | well |
| 05:36.54 | ``Erik | you know my opinion on the src/other dir |
| 05:36.56 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 05:37.11 | brlcad | yep |
| 05:37.19 | ``Erik | I was actually a bit upset with how many imports I found in my personal cvs repo :( |
| 05:37.26 | ``Erik | siod, quack 2, ... |
| 05:37.56 | ``Erik | <-- talks it, but doesn't always walk it :( |
| 05:40.27 | ``Erik | now, uh, if you feel like being repetitive, you could always add it to AM_CFLAGS for each dir |
| 05:41.26 | brlcad | yeah, nah, that'd suck |
| 05:41.33 | ``Erik | on personal projects, I like "-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic", but BRL-CAD doesn't cope well with that rig |
| 05:41.36 | brlcad | the benefit is pretty minimal, just nice housekeeping |
| 05:41.55 | ``Erik | heh |
| 05:42.03 | ``Erik | I almost got one of my project splint clean |
| 05:42.13 | brlcad | yeah, that's pretty standard set |
| 05:42.22 | brlcad | usually use the same |
| 05:42.31 | ``Erik | flawfinder has a couple low hits (getopt not protecting buffers on old platforms, etc) |
| 05:42.54 | brlcad | i wouldn't look at anything below 3, it's got way to many false positives |
| 05:43.08 | ``Erik | um, I think the getopt() one actually lsts as 2 |
| 05:43.09 | brlcad | even most of the 3's |
| 05:43.09 | ``Erik | er |
| 05:43.10 | ``Erik | 3 |
| 05:43.22 | brlcad | there are now about 800 4's left |
| 05:43.35 | brlcad | about 600 are quellable |
| 05:43.46 | brlcad | the rest are false positives |
| 05:43.59 | brlcad | with no reasonable way to shut them up |
| 05:44.00 | ``Erik | I'd imagine that 99% of them are "well handled" to begin with... the kinda thing a new coder could be thrown at |
| 05:44.21 | brlcad | that's where I think coverity will do a better job |
| 05:44.47 | brlcad | yeah, easily |
| 05:45.00 | ``Erik | how's that coming along? those dudes were trying to get something fixed to cope with our weirdness, iirc? |
| 05:45.03 | brlcad | one of a dozen tasks like that |
| 05:45.31 | ``Erik | I want good libbu and libbn documentation :( |
| 05:45.32 | brlcad | yeah, they're just "busy" last I pinged them |
| 05:45.40 | brlcad | bu, bn, and rt |
| 05:45.53 | ``Erik | when I was mucking with vls for clone, I was unhappy at how often I had to go look at code |
| 05:45.58 | brlcad | pkg and wdb for good measure |
| 05:46.22 | ``Erik | and completion felt weak, thus the macros |
| 05:46.33 | brlcad | completion? |
| 05:47.00 | brlcad | you mean funcs missing? |
| 05:47.10 | ``Erik | yeah, I expected strcmp type things |
| 05:47.40 | brlcad | that's just a matter of refactoring -- stuff hasn't really been ever added to any of the libs until/unless it's in use |
| 05:47.49 | ``Erik | total encapsulation type stuff |
| 05:47.52 | brlcad | nobody ever needed/refactored with a strcmp need |
| 05:49.36 | ``Erik | I wonder if vls's shoudl hold some kinda hash value for fast strcmp type needs :/ |
| 05:51.03 | ``Erik | even though there are only 5 calls in the entire source tree, heh |
| 05:51.45 | ``Erik | but there are a fair number of strcmp() with one arg being a vls... |
| 05:53.44 | brlcad | damn alicia keys is hot and a awesome artist |
| 05:55.01 | brlcad | 45 strcmp's that have at least one vls lookup |
| 05:55.02 | ``Erik | in other news; fire is hot, ice is cold, and windows sucks. |
| 05:55.37 | ``Erik | but they're not consistant in which arg is the vls |
| 05:55.43 | ``Erik | easily fixable, but a grind |
| 05:56.33 | brlcad | many of those strcmps could go away too |
| 05:56.58 | brlcad | 1236 calls to strcmp |
| 05:57.35 | brlcad | probably a third should be strncmp or strlcmp |
| 05:57.36 | ``Erik | <-- didn't look at 'em, just noticed when finding strcmp(bu_vls_addr(a),bu_vls_addr(b)) |
| 05:58.02 | ``Erik | heh, I thought you didn't like strlcmp :D too obsd specific or something |
| 05:58.55 | ``Erik | I put in requests to get cygwin and msvc on bobs winderz machine |
| 05:59.32 | ``Erik | if he can make it so his office mate *cough* can build without asking anyone for help, that'd be a good step |
| 06:00.19 | brlcad | strlcmp is a bad example, that's not c89 iirc |
| 06:00.26 | brlcad | but those kinds of functions |
| 06:00.33 | ``Erik | no, not c90, not c99... obsd |
| 06:00.35 | brlcad | to check length at same time |
| 06:00.47 | ``Erik | strncmp() is the best portable afaik |
| 06:00.54 | brlcad | yeah, that one is c89 |
| 06:01.43 | ``Erik | my obsd builds said to use strlcmp() instead, that's the only place I've seen that func come up |
| 06:04.36 | brlcad | yeah, strncmp is a pain to remember that it's length and not size, though less important for cmp |
| 06:04.53 | brlcad | more important for cpy, strncpy vs strlcpy |
| 06:05.08 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:06.47 | brlcad | cept it allocates, can't use buffers |
| 06:07.05 | ``Erik | most uses of strcpy() follow a malloc |
| 06:07.46 | brlcad | eh |
| 06:08.16 | ``Erik | sorry, they do |
| 06:08.34 | brlcad | I don't believe that, at least it's just as likely that someone copies into a char[] than that they have an alloc'd char* |
| 06:08.43 | ``Erik | go ahead, script up something to grind on sf to look for that pattern |
| 06:08.48 | ``Erik | it's.... common |
| 06:08.52 | brlcad | you're the one making the claim |
| 06:08.57 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:09.06 | brlcad | i'm not gonna waste my time doing that :) |
| 06:09.11 | ``Erik | I'm also the one who's excessively lazy ;) |
| 06:10.02 | brlcad | besides it doesn't matter -- if people only ever made dups of a string then str[nl]cpy wouldn't have been made and we'd only have strdup :P |
| 06:10.17 | ``Erik | in the code I've laid hands on, I believe that most uses of str*cpy() are into freshly allocated memory (often malloc'd, sometimes stack alloc) |
| 06:10.38 | ``Erik | strcpy predates strdup by quite a bit, though |
| 06:11.07 | brlcad | having gone through nearly 500 instances in brl-cad's code already, it's a fairly even split of buffers and mallocs |
| 06:11.33 | brlcad | entirely unscientific counting of course |
| 06:11.51 | ``Erik | the gnarled hands of an emacs use? |
| 06:11.53 | ``Erik | user? |
| 06:12.25 | brlcad | just recollections of the edits since I've been checking other things while I cleanup (like bombing, !!!!'s, allocs, etc) |
| 06:13.05 | ``Erik | I wonder if user message format should be addressed in hacking |
| 06:13.15 | brlcad | the most annoying is the f'd up inconsistent indentation style on some of the dirs |
| 06:13.16 | ``Erik | consistant message format |
| 06:14.04 | brlcad | think I need to add a style var to the emacs local var footer so that braces aren't jacked on indent |
| 06:14.24 | ``Erik | :) |
| 06:14.40 | brlcad | vim has the same issue, just a matter of setting the style |
| 06:14.57 | ``Erik | probably handled in my overweight .vimrc |
| 06:15.00 | brlcad | I can set it for my emacs, but then that doesn't solve the problem |
| 06:16.19 | brlcad | moss's code is one of the worst offenders |
| 06:16.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:16.41 | brlcad | his code often smells like s2 |
| 06:16.47 | ``Erik | hum, splain it to me, lucy |
| 06:16.53 | ``Erik | rt asks for a ray |
| 06:16.57 | ``Erik | librt shoots it |
| 06:16.58 | brlcad | (not surprising since that's what he worked on) |
| 06:17.07 | ``Erik | liboptical figures out what to do with a hit |
| 06:17.20 | ``Erik | no? where are the actual hand-offs in all that? |
| 06:17.30 | brlcad | that's about right |
| 06:17.52 | ``Erik | suppose I wanted to write a direct hit lighting model |
| 06:17.55 | brlcad | then liboptical sets the value, the rt sends to libfb and/or whatever output channel via the application struct |
| 06:17.58 | ``Erik | -l99 |
| 06:18.10 | ``Erik | how do I stub it in? |
| 06:18.14 | brlcad | data passing is done through the resource and application structures |
| 06:18.18 | brlcad | mostly the app structure |
| 06:18.21 | ``Erik | the photon mapping stuff seems horribly wedged |
| 06:18.42 | brlcad | lighting models are handled in rt |
| 06:18.47 | brlcad | it is horribly wedged |
| 06:18.53 | brlcad | justin's not a great example |
| 06:19.01 | ``Erik | I saw three big siwtches for lighting model in rt/ I think |
| 06:19.03 | brlcad | er, his code |
| 06:19.17 | brlcad | yeah, they're about it |
| 06:19.34 | ``Erik | so there's no map table or anything? it's just hard coded in? |
| 06:20.22 | ``Erik | I should probably look at the uhhhh normal coloring |
| 06:21.01 | ``Erik | seemed there was no clear contract between rt and liboptical... |
| 06:21.17 | ``Erik | <-- kinda wants to write a 'toon' shader :) |
| 06:21.24 | brlcad | that's what the view files do -- handoffs between whatever optic model you're using |
| 06:22.08 | ``Erik | um, are the shadow rays thrown in rt/view.c ? |
| 06:23.02 | brlcad | shadow rays are specific to a phong-type shader, phong actually shoots them |
| 06:23.20 | brlcad | (i.e. in liboptical) |
| 06:24.18 | brlcad | hence the variety of rt_shootray calls in liboptical |
| 06:24.54 | ``Erik | hm |
| 06:25.20 | ``Erik | don't be too terribly surprised if you see a new lighting model in the semi-near future :) |
| 06:25.37 | ``Erik | it seems like one of those things with a good thinking/grunt ratio |
| 06:26.16 | brlcad | fun stuff |
| 06:26.19 | ``Erik | I think I got most of the grunt in clone out of the way, but the thinking involves some major user insight :/ |
| 06:26.50 | ``Erik | classic mirror works only on cardinal axis... I want it to work on arbitrary vectors... |
| 06:26.51 | ``Erik | etc |
| 06:27.09 | brlcad | alas, I haven't coded up a new/clean lighting model yet, so no path of lookups like there are for new shaders and prims |
| 06:27.19 | brlcad | but there pretty straightforward |
| 06:27.32 | ``Erik | um |
| 06:27.34 | ``Erik | speaking of prims |
| 06:27.39 | brlcad | there are a couple really simple ones that do things like visualize the material thickness per ray |
| 06:27.40 | ``Erik | g-xxx.c ... should be fixed |
| 06:28.06 | ``Erik | the normal model looks like a good place to dig in to me |
| 06:28.17 | ``Erik | since I just want first hit shading |
| 06:28.59 | ``Erik | I dunno if I said it, but we need a function to generate a ray set correlating to an arbitrary ae for both ortho and perspective |
| 06:29.02 | brlcad | rtedge probably could have been done as a lighting model |
| 06:29.08 | ``Erik | so g_qa.c can have non-cardinal runs |
| 06:29.14 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:29.20 | brlcad | yeah, I've been saying that for years too |
| 06:29.30 | brlcad | just haven't gotten to that refactoring |
| 06:29.35 | ``Erik | yeah, heh |
| 06:29.41 | brlcad | its' just pushing a chunk of code from worker into librt |
| 06:29.46 | brlcad | "just" |
| 06:29.48 | ``Erik | I keep saying "yup, we need it, uh, maybe after XXX" |
| 06:30.14 | ``Erik | many of the rt's duplicate functionality in not quite the same manners :( |
| 06:30.19 | ``Erik | and I don't like that |
| 06:30.57 | ``Erik | heh, rt should boil down to if(strncmp(*argv, "... |
| 06:30.58 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 06:31.01 | ``Erik | imho |
| 06:31.25 | brlcad | yeah, and much of it is like that .. just not enough |
| 06:31.49 | brlcad | the entire "rt backend" -- which cake actually made more obvious -- belongs in a lib |
| 06:31.56 | ``Erik | oh, uh, image conversion, I'm tempted to grab libconvert and shove it in src/other/ and redo the entire pix conversion suite to be two func calls |
| 06:32.21 | ``Erik | hey, I was given a cd and told to make it automake |
| 06:32.26 | ``Erik | I had no clue what I was lookin' at :D |
| 06:33.03 | brlcad | not saying it's right or wrong, just autoobfuscated :) |
| 06:33.32 | ``Erik | cake still gives me the willies |
| 06:34.04 | ``Erik | if I'd have known any utility cake providd above and beyond, I would've commented it in the am |
| 06:35.11 | ``Erik | <-- got a few dirty looks when he first started cuz he kept referring to the "hit by a bus" situation as a need to document properly... |
| 06:35.45 | ``Erik | guess it hit too close to home for a few folk :/ |
| 06:36.43 | brlcad | no time to make things simple for the noobs :) |
| 06:36.51 | brlcad | that's valuable coding time |
| 06:37.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:37.20 | ``Erik | should I point out the tragic flaw there? :D |
| 06:37.48 | brlcad | nope |
| 06:39.01 | ``Erik | y'know |
| 06:39.14 | brlcad | yup |
| 06:39.19 | ``Erik | much of libbu's functionality is found in glib |
| 06:39.34 | ``Erik | how heretical would it be to ponder that? |
| 06:39.41 | brlcad | sure is, the nature of a basic library |
| 06:39.51 | brlcad | also much of it is in the stl too |
| 06:40.05 | ``Erik | stl is for c++ weenies, not real coders |
| 06:40.13 | brlcad | as well as the boost libs, glib, and a dozen others ;) |
| 06:40.16 | ``Erik | last I heard, stl wasn't very... standard... |
| 06:40.24 | brlcad | that's old news |
| 06:40.35 | ``Erik | the msvc users were hand deleting their own stl and importing sgi's |
| 06:40.45 | brlcad | it's pretty solid now |
| 06:41.01 | brlcad | anythings past msvc 6 |
| 06:41.10 | brlcad | msvc 6 and before sucked ass |
| 06:41.11 | ``Erik | msvc6 is still used |
| 06:41.15 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:41.19 | ``Erik | I have a cd with msvc1 |
| 06:41.22 | brlcad | exceptionally rare |
| 06:41.26 | brlcad | that's ancient bustage |
| 06:41.30 | ``Erik | up against the cd with borland 4.51 |
| 06:41.41 | ``Erik | wanna trip into suckage? I can loan 'em... :D |
| 06:41.54 | brlcad | i have vc6 somewhere |
| 06:41.56 | brlcad | it's not worth it |
| 06:42.05 | brlcad | it was outright broken and incompliant in many ways |
| 06:42.21 | ``Erik | I used msvc5 and 6, it convinced me to rely on cygwin/mingw32 |
| 06:42.36 | brlcad | can take care of the issues with some things (C code isn't too horrible, C++ is horrible, though) |
| 06:42.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:42.51 | brlcad | 7 and 8 were vast improvements |
| 06:43.01 | ``Erik | at the time, msvc supported c++ a whole lot better than gcc |
| 06:43.09 | ``Erik | uh, egcs, for the cool kids |
| 06:43.46 | brlcad | yeah, caring about msvc6 is like caring about gcc1/egcs portability |
| 06:43.54 | brlcad | you just don't do it |
| 06:44.17 | brlcad | unless you have somebody funding that waste of time |
| 06:45.00 | ``Erik | :/ I was a big c++ proponent for a while, then I got heavy into leenewx and realized C could do all that stuff without much work... then many years later, I got into smalltalk,and then I "got" oo (I think)... and c++ just ain't there... objc is a lot closer |
| 06:46.21 | brlcad | smalltalk is one of my favorite languages |
| 06:46.26 | ``Erik | amusingly enough, ruby is probably my favorite "oo" language, and I've run into several situations where ruby just doesn't hold up so I switch to thscheme or lithp inthtead |
| 06:46.29 | brlcad | favorite impractical languages |
| 06:46.58 | ``Erik | the crypt game in squeak... w00t :D |
| 06:47.40 | brlcad | c++ best and worst feature is that it doesn't really confine you to any paradigm and actually lets you implement three or four fundamentally different styles |
| 06:48.02 | ``Erik | 'cept, uh, it doens't do a couple that it claims to |
| 06:48.15 | ``Erik | the biggest feature of oo, imho, is multi-dispatch |
| 06:48.23 | brlcad | you can seriously abuse the template layer and get lispness, you can go pure OO, you can go run-time ala objc, functional, etc |
| 06:48.29 | ``Erik | and alan kay has said the same... he has harsh things to say about c++ |
| 06:48.57 | ``Erik | I loaned out the uh, patterns book |
| 06:49.00 | brlcad | that just means the power is in the hands of the coder to know what to do and what NOT to do |
| 06:49.16 | ``Erik | the notion of a design pattern, to me, is an indication of a failure in the language to do its duty |
| 06:49.53 | brlcad | eh, you have design patterns in just about every language |
| 06:49.57 | ``Erik | I have a set of slides somewhere, um, design patterns for ml |
| 06:50.00 | brlcad | it's just a .. pattern of use |
| 06:50.14 | ``Erik | and MOST of the c++ listed ones disappear, because "the language just handles that" |
| 06:51.21 | brlcad | yeah.. ml's a great practical language :P |
| 06:51.30 | brlcad | a clear success :) |
| 06:51.32 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:51.42 | ``Erik | it's a good language |
| 06:51.46 | ``Erik | it just has no good apps |
| 06:51.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 06:51.53 | brlcad | that's not all it's missing :) |
| 06:52.25 | ``Erik | <-- thtill a lithp weenie, tho won't argue |
| 06:52.28 | brlcad | otherwise it'd have a significant devout following like the python/ruby/scheme/etc camps |
| 06:52.38 | brlcad | it's a great academic language for teaching languages |
| 06:52.45 | ``Erik | I think both breeds have a serious following |
| 06:52.58 | ``Erik | and scheme is kinda the lithp for schools... |
| 06:53.10 | ``Erik | the pathcal of lithpth, even |
| 06:53.36 | ``Erik | still my favorite lisp, but I'm trying to learn common lisp... |
| 06:53.39 | ``Erik | and emacs |
| 06:53.48 | ``Erik | they tell me that's what the grown-ups use |
| 06:54.05 | brlcad | every language has its strengths, weaknesses, and applicability for various purposes |
| 06:54.16 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 06:54.23 | brlcad | one of C++'s best strengths and biggest weaknesses is its flexibility |
| 06:54.27 | ``Erik | only those fluent in a wide variety have anything to say |
| 06:54.49 | brlcad | depends what I'm doing |
| 06:55.02 | brlcad | (for me) |
| 06:55.10 | ``Erik | though I have had on and off urges to use c++ over the last decade or so :/ |
| 06:55.28 | ``Erik | "that'd fit well into c++'s hobbled notion of oo" |
| 06:55.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 06:55.45 | ``Erik | but at that point, ruby is probably 'nuff |
| 06:55.48 | brlcad | for big architecting, c++ wins for me, good balance of power, performance, and flexibility |
| 06:55.53 | brlcad | (over objc) |
| 06:56.04 | brlcad | for dynamic interactive apps, objc usually wins |
| 06:56.25 | brlcad | to a point, gets nasty as they get bigger |
| 06:56.28 | ``Erik | see, I'd rather start with an obscenely high level language, do bottom up in it, or the skeery bi-directional deisgn of lisp users |
| 06:56.41 | ``Erik | and as the language fails, start re-doing bits in a lower level language |
| 06:57.07 | ``Erik | if I *NEED* to shave that .02% off, switch to C |
| 06:57.51 | brlcad | all of the functional languages fail for me from purely practical standpoints -- admittedly self-defeating reasons -- not useful to use for an app core simply because there aren't many coders for that language and it's a polarizing political/academic debate on the language's utility |
| 06:58.18 | ``Erik | that approach has failed me bigtime, though. I had a top down shooter game that developed a hitch every half second due to naive stop© gc :/ |
| 06:58.37 | brlcad | ew |
| 06:58.56 | ``Erik | should hacked a generational into it |
| 06:59.03 | ``Erik | or at least treadmill |
| 06:59.38 | ``Erik | (amusingly enough... I argued gc's and learned a fair bit from salzman... who went to cmu...) |
| 07:01.08 | ``Erik | hrmph |
| 07:01.21 | ``Erik | I wonder where my big orange and blue "basic for the commodore 64" book went |
| 07:01.31 | ``Erik | it had a chapter on garbage collection, but I ignored it... |
| 07:01.52 | ``Erik | I mean, 64,000 bytes? how can you run out of that??? ... (until I tried to do voxels on the machine) |
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| 07:06.22 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
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| 07:08.16 | ``Erik | this sucks. |
| 07:20.20 | ``Erik | nhttp://www.xkcd.com/ |
| 07:22.10 | ``Erik | http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/ |
| 07:30.21 | IriX64 | i should take slight to that :) |
| 07:30.58 | IriX64 | yea, got cygwin running on vista64. |
| 07:32.53 | IriX64 | singular works, means i can compile brlcad wee |
| 08:04.44 | IriX64 | configure pegs the user cpu meter but kernal time is approx 60 % :) |
| 08:06.50 | tarzeau | brlcad: strange and with -O0 too? |
| 08:07.02 | tarzeau | brlcad: anyways, if you can't reproduce it... i can build debian packages now :) |
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| 09:12.55 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now | |
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| 09:43.13 | brlcad | tarzeau: nope, working fine .. not sure how changing the optimization level is supposed to break the build, works fine here |
| 09:43.25 | brlcad | tarzeau: if you have a build log, be interesting to see the error |
| 09:43.35 | brlcad | otherwise, sounds like you have something working on your end |
| 10:08.39 | tarzeau | brlcad: ok thanks |
| 10:09.50 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: busy? |
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| 12:04.54 | starseeker | Ah hah - now the rt06 download works. |
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| 14:42.51 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: hi |
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| 16:15.44 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: quite |
| 16:15.49 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 16:15.58 | MinuteElectron | I won't bother you then, my query is non-essential. |
| 16:16.31 | MinuteElectron | Well, that really depends on your viewpoint - but I'd rather not disturb you and it is nothing integral. |
| 16:16.33 | brlcad | i'll ping you later when I can chat better |
| 16:16.37 | MinuteElectron | ok, sure |
| 16:16.59 | brlcad | tweaked the header some more for the download image |
| 16:17.17 | MinuteElectron | I saw ;) - looking better. |
| 16:17.27 | brlcad | yeh, still not great, but better |
| 16:17.35 | MinuteElectron | True |
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| 22:33.14 | starseeker | Cool - they FINALLY collect the ebuild messages for multiple ebuilds at the end of the whole install |
| 22:33.32 | ``Erik | huh, tclb2 |
| 22:34.54 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: That thing I was talking about earlier was because I got a bus error from PHP and the guys in ##php said that it was something to do with the binaries. Probably the completely wrong diagnosis but I was worried it might be important. So, yeah. I am going to go to bed now - speak soon I suppose. |
| 22:39.26 | starseeker | This direct raytracing of NURBs looks interesting - I'm curious though, how would such behavior interact in librt with the other types of analysis BRL-CAD is used for? Does the ARL have an internal database of previous analyses it could use to compare the results of the old methods and a NURBS based intersection simulation? |
| 22:45.08 | starseeker | Hmm, hang on - gotta restart to make sure I didn't just nuke my sound drivers... |
| 22:54.59 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 23:05.04 | starseeker | Ah, there we go :-) |
| 23:06.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:07.01 | ``Erik | starseeker, we have a good amount of geometry that was modelled in tnurbs using stuff like pro-engineer that was tesselated to convert to our format... we can't share those files, but we can test for ya if you do nurbs work |
| 23:07.15 | ``Erik | right now |
| 23:07.22 | starseeker | hehe :-) |
| 23:07.49 | starseeker | I'm not ready yet to do that level of work - got some homework to do first |
| 23:07.54 | ``Erik | the geometry isn't classified secret or anything, but it's not releasable due to contract constraints |
| 23:08.00 | starseeker | Right |
| 23:08.41 | ``Erik | folk like general dynamics and raytheon dont' embrace the same notions :) |
| 23:08.55 | starseeker | Pity ;-) |
| 23:13.36 | starseeker | ``Erik: From the "public" standpoint, I suppose it would probably be more interesting anyway to model thinks like WWII weapons |
| 23:13.59 | starseeker | Although I doubt enough detailed info survives on most of that to build a model anymore |
| 23:14.07 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:14.19 | ``Erik | it does |
| 23:14.24 | starseeker | Really?? |
| 23:14.28 | ``Erik | the gear still exists, some in private hands |
| 23:14.57 | starseeker | Oh, sure - but that would be quite a project. The blueprints was what I was thinking about... |
| 23:15.02 | ``Erik | wheel your arse out to APG with a caliper and tape measure, got a field full of ww1 and ww2 tanks just sitting there for epeople to gawk at |
| 23:15.10 | ``Erik | I'm sure blueprints exist, but might not be public |
| 23:15.19 | starseeker | point |
| 23:18.06 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:18.11 | ``Erik | buildings are public record |
| 23:18.45 | ``Erik | it was like $20 for a reproduction of a residence like 15 years ago |
| 23:18.56 | starseeker | Hmm. |
| 23:35.21 | starseeker | errrgh. The design documents for the superconducting super collider are online, but they are some sort of funky postscript |
| 23:48.34 | starseeker | Humph. Looks like you can get them but you have to wade through huge bureaucracy to do it. Figures. Same thing with the Saturn V goodies. |
| 23:56.41 | ``Erik | hum, ps is a language intended to spew 2d stuff |
| 23:57.01 | ``Erik | um, we might be able to snarf that up into sketch objects or something |
| 23:57.21 | starseeker | http://www.hep.net/ssc/new/repository.html |
| 23:57.43 | starseeker | Ghostscript can't do much with them out of the box |
| 23:58.08 | starseeker | They've got copyright Apple in there so it might be a capture of some code sent to an Apple printer... |
| 23:58.50 | starseeker | I've dealt with some postscript code intended for printers, and it ain't pretty... |
| 23:59.06 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:59.25 | ``Erik | NeXT used ps as the primary display language, iirc, and jobs may've carried those properties when he went back to apple |
| 23:59.32 | ``Erik | might be display related, not printer related |
| 23:59.33 | ``Erik | :) |
| 23:59.39 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 00:00.03 | starseeker | This might be interesting, but I'm not sure what they mean by "code": http://www.hep.net/ssc/new/codes.html |
| 00:00.20 | starseeker | Probably software |
| 00:01.51 | starseeker | Hmm - wonder if Brookhaven ever posted it anywhere... |
| 00:03.07 | starseeker | Not that there'd be too much point in modeling an non-existent collider in a CAD system anyway - the Tevatron might be fun but so far I can't scare up the blueprints from their website |
| 00:09.47 | starseeker | Humph. Web page is at BNL, but not updated since 1995 apparently. |
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| 00:37.02 | IriX64 | navigate by stars man :) |
| 00:38.41 | starseeker | That would probably work better ;-) |
| 00:38.53 | IriX64 | for certain :) |
| 00:39.38 | IriX64 | might have to pay for it |
| 00:39.54 | starseeker | Up front, possibly. |
| 00:41.20 | IriX64 | probable |
| 00:42.37 | starseeker | Plus, in some ways the Apollo achievements are to our civilization what the Pyramids were to ancient Egypt - human achievement on a grand scale |
| 00:43.31 | starseeker | The details of how that was done (technically speaking) seem worth preserving |
| 00:44.08 | IriX64 | there are many places to find such info, try nasa jet propulsion labs |
| 00:44.35 | starseeker | Oh, I know it can be found - this guy has some of it: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm |
| 00:44.52 | IriX64 | ok |
| 00:45.03 | starseeker | Unfortunately it sounds like the only practical way to do it is to wade into the physical archives themselves and start scanning |
| 00:45.17 | starseeker | and even then, I don't know how much of it would be approved for public release. |
| 00:45.22 | IriX64 | what are you trying to acomplish |
| 00:45.46 | starseeker | Well, the idea would be to fully document the technical details of the Apollo system |
| 00:46.13 | starseeker | In other words, to collect on a website all the information future generations would need in order to build their own ;-) |
| 00:46.48 | IriX64 | one would hope they would be capable of building something better :) |
| 00:47.44 | starseeker | Oh, sure. But it's sort of like how we like figuring out how they built the pyramids - considering we can't figure that out real well and it's just a bunch of rocks piled real high, I'd think putting a man on the moon would be a little bit more difficult in retrospect ;-) |
| 00:49.09 | starseeker | It's probably just my own odd curiosities |
| 00:49.13 | IriX64 | depends on whose point of view you take, to those building the pyramids it probably was quite difficult :) |
| 00:49.44 | starseeker | Agreed :-). But I'd rather try that from scratch with no technological base than try putting someone on the moon. |
| 00:50.46 | IriX64 | true, all knowledge is usefull, so you want to document it true? |
| 00:51.17 | starseeker | Right :-). I also have the same notions about computers - how do you go from a bunch of inert metal to a modern computer? |
| 00:51.48 | IriX64 | quite the projects, good luck :) |
| 00:51.52 | starseeker | hehe |
| 00:52.01 | starseeker | It's more just notions I have than anything |
| 00:52.14 | IriX64 | notions are good |
| 00:52.17 | starseeker | The scale is extremely large, and I doubt I will ever have the time to do it |
| 00:52.36 | IriX64 | engage helpfull people in it |
| 00:52.38 | starseeker | Maybe if I'm blessed with good health and prosperity in retirement |
| 00:52.50 | IriX64 | not that i'm volunteering :) |
| 00:52.54 | starseeker | That would involve finding people as nutty as I am ;-) |
| 00:53.07 | IriX64 | true :) |
| 00:54.03 | starseeker | Slightly more possible is using Forth to bootstrap a Lisp environment completely by hand :-). I may try that someday |
| 00:56.49 | starseeker | and bemusedly notes he'd better get to work on household chores... |
| 00:56.59 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:11.44 | IriX64 | 7.10.4 tells me i have no X and no GL, 7.8.4 says i have both !?!?!? |
| 01:13.11 | louipc | imagine spending your decades researching so you can build a robot that will do all your chores for you so you can spend time doing other things only to realise you've wasted all your years essentially doing chores (via the robot) |
| 01:27.05 | louipc | I'd like to know how the heck we were able to make more precise and accurate machinery from less precise/accurate machinery |
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| 03:21.05 | IriX64 | why won't encarta95 install on vista64 ;) |
| 03:26.52 | IriX64 | I can safely say "I can't support you anymore" to all those people who have my old 8 and 16 bit software: |
| 03:28.25 | IriX64 | ) |
| 03:33.45 | IriX64 | blah... watcom 10.6a installed, now i have to convert all that 8 and 16 bit schtuff to 32 bit :( |
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| 07:13.34 | brlcad | minute-ssh: I saw the bus error, what were you doing that caused it? is it reproducible and accessible from the web server or was it something you were running on the command line? |
| 07:15.42 | brlcad | starseeker: the intent wouldn't be to replace implicit evaluation with nurbs evals (though you could) -- there are plenty of comparisons that we can/would do to make sure that it's working, but it's already pretty well understood that it'd be slower (nurbs evaluation is naturally about an order slower) |
| 07:19.55 | brlcad | those BNL codes don't seem particularly interesting to me other than noting the four written by Reshetov probably long before he got into ray tracing |
| 08:00.38 | brlcad | ahh, intaval |
| 09:27.35 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 09:33.13 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (14 files in 3 dirs): initial checkin of TNO's/IABG's INTAVAL to BRL-CAD converter |
| 09:39.42 | brlcad | hello d_rossberg |
| 09:40.07 | d_rossberg | hi brlcad |
| 09:41.05 | brlcad | glad to see the converter in, looks good at a glance |
| 09:41.53 | brlcad | was that developed by multiple people? |
| 09:41.59 | d_rossberg | i hope so, i could not test the Linux build (autogen is missing some Makefile.in) |
| 09:42.52 | brlcad | autogen.sh is probably complaining because intaval wasn't added to configure.ac ;) |
| 09:43.04 | d_rossberg | yes, the base was developed by TNO, and i aded some new primitives (it should be complete now) |
| 09:43.10 | brlcad | ah, you did add it |
| 09:43.13 | brlcad | hm |
| 09:43.27 | brlcad | anyone specific at tno? |
| 09:43.40 | brlcad | or several folks? |
| 09:43.45 | d_rossberg | autogen was complaining about misc/debian |
| 09:43.45 | brlcad | just curious |
| 09:44.24 | brlcad | ah, have you done a update -dP in a while? |
| 09:44.50 | brlcad | have to run that from time to time to pick up new dirs that are added |
| 09:45.05 | d_rossberg | because of TNO: i'm not shure, but i think Wim has something to do with it |
| 09:45.29 | brlcad | would have expected wim :) |
| 09:45.39 | brlcad | haven't interacted with them in a while |
| 09:46.16 | d_rossberg | update dP: on Windows always but not on Linux :-{ |
| 09:47.00 | d_rossberg | TNO is very interested in interacting with the BRL-CAD people |
| 09:52.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: intaval/Makefile |
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| 10:05.04 | brlcad | seems to be going ok so far, have to fix an include path issue (our problem in configure.ac) |
| 10:06.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: search the opennurbs dir for header files, it's required when compiling c++ sources that use rtgeom.h (which uses brep.h, which requires opennurbs.h) |
| 10:07.36 | d_rossberg | with update -dP automake runs much better ... |
| 10:13.09 | brlcad | you'll probably want that last commit too, include path addition |
| 10:13.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am: ah, blasted automake (or my assumptions of it). just include the opennurbs cppflags here since c++ files are still in the minority. |
| 10:13.36 | brlcad | just built fine for me here and runs (mac os x) |
| 10:14.49 | brlcad | what do "dra" and "tgf" stand for? |
| 10:16.43 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't make up var names, just comment it out for now. as more C++ is integrated, it can be made default |
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| 10:21.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new tgf-g INTAVAL importer |
| 10:22.14 | brlcad | d_rossberg: if you have names of specific people to credit in the news file, please let me know -- i.e. others besides you and Wim |
| 10:22.36 | brlcad | have fun with the canteening .. a bit early here for that :) |
| 10:25.56 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add PML to TNO's name. would preferably reference the developers directly but don't know yet if there were others coding besides Wim B. and Daniel R. working on it |
| 10:26.51 | brlcad | d_rossberg: and if you missed the question.. do you know what do "dra" and "tgf" stand for? |
| 11:24.51 | d_rossberg | DRA: Defence Research Agency (established by UK MoD) |
| 11:26.02 | d_rossberg | TGF: Target Geometry File (it is how they are calling it) |
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| 14:04.11 | ``Erik | um, is that related to tank-kill? |
| 14:06.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/readme.txt: annotate what DRA and TGF stand for |
| 14:07.24 | brlcad | d_rossberg: thx |
| 14:08.29 | brlcad | undoubtedly "related" .. could even be the same format which would mean we now have three converters for the same format that all do something radically different .. |
| 14:08.56 | brlcad | from the look of what daniel added though, the format is either considerably different or it's a much better importer |
| 14:09.38 | brlcad | from what I have gathered, intaval is the uk's version of covart, developed by lockheed martin |
| 14:09.48 | ``Erik | if that's the case, someone should do some test runs and see if the old ones can be links to the new one... uh, I don't volunteer :D |
| 14:09.58 | brlcad | whereas tankill is the uk's version of muves |
| 14:10.22 | d_rossberg | brlcad: same to you |
| 14:10.27 | ``Erik | if I weren't still hurting from the weekend, I'd be seriously breaking the repo right now, but I don't wanna deal with being on the hook to fix it :) |
| 14:10.28 | brlcad | former version at least |
| 14:10.41 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: what did you do on the weekend? |
| 14:10.56 | ``Erik | imbibed. significantly. |
| 14:11.29 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:11.55 | ``Erik | and got to be the "tool" in an argument with an old friend, and too many damn video games |
| 14:13.25 | ``Erik | and negotiated a deal to go back to online dj'ing, I think |
| 14:14.14 | ``Erik | this c++ fqa is hilarious, yet so true |
| 14:14.30 | ``Erik | http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ |
| 15:05.36 | d_rossberg | brlcad: what do you recommend, if building without opennurbs should cpp sources not include the opennurbs headers or should OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS always be set |
| 15:17.15 | brlcad | d_rossberg: did you see my commit earlier today? |
| 15:17.31 | brlcad | that's what they were for |
| 15:19.13 | brlcad | it should probably always be set since at least at the moment it's required due to brep.h, but there's also presently only three instances of C++ application code in the entire repository .. so it was just as easy to add the OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS to the place where it was needed (to intaval's Makefile..am) |
| 15:20.34 | d_rossberg | brlcad: i saw your comment, but the converter won't compile |
| 15:20.35 | brlcad | once nurbs/brep support is "complete", opennurbs will be required so I'd more soon always add it than conditionally on opennurbs being built |
| 15:20.57 | brlcad | d_rossberg: you sure about that? .. are you up to date? |
| 15:21.12 | brlcad | 06:13 < CIA-27> BRL-CAD: brlcad * brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am: ah, blasted automake (or my assumptions of it). just include the opennurbs cppflags here since c++ files are still in the minority. |
| 15:21.48 | brlcad | I built and ran successfully on mac os x already after that fix |
| 15:22.37 | d_rossberg | i'm afraid OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS won't help if they are empty |
| 15:22.46 | brlcad | ooooh |
| 15:22.49 | brlcad | you turn it off |
| 15:23.11 | brlcad | yeah, that's nfg then :) |
| 15:23.22 | d_rossberg | on the other side, there is a define WITH_OPENNURBS which could be used in brep.h |
| 15:23.24 | brlcad | OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS should always be set |
| 15:23.58 | brlcad | though if someone wanted a system opennurbs, the flags would be different |
| 15:24.50 | brlcad | WITH_OPENNURBS is an automake conditional, not a define .. you'd have to add a define for it |
| 15:26.37 | brlcad | and that's the one that will eventually go away when the implementation is complete so that nurbs/brep support is consistently available in the core |
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| 15:28.30 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: always set the path to the openNURBS headers (C++) |
| 15:30.39 | brlcad | yeah, that'll work for the time being, until there's a --with flag for pointing to a system-installed opennurbs or until we make too many mods that it has to build custom |
| 15:37.24 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: apparently not yet annotated, so make a note of the stupid unable to find brl-cad message when rt encounters a shader it doesn't recognize. the dynamic shader loading code has some bad juju in it. |
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| 19:11.33 | ewilhelm | hi all |
| 19:12.00 | ewilhelm | I'm getting errors trying to build cvs from source on Debian Etch (gcc 4.1 and/or 3.4) |
| 19:12.20 | ewilhelm | libtool: link: cannot find the library `../../../src/libwdb/libwdb.la |
| 19:14.37 | ewilhelm | is this an issue with CVS today or something on my end? |
| 19:17.24 | ewilhelm | it appears to be something of a failed make dependency detection |
| 19:22.50 | ewilhelm | hmm, manually stepping through the failing directories leads me to a libtcl-8.5 error |
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| 19:28.24 | ewilhelm | ugh, I just did cd tcl and tk and ran make install and then popd'd back through the stack of failing dirs and `make` was fine |
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| 19:50.03 | illethal | Hello.. |
| 19:53.46 | ewilhelm | hi |
| 19:54.15 | illethal | I havn't used BRL-CAD yet. I have a few questions maybe someone can answer? |
| 19:55.08 | ewilhelm | maybe -- at the moment I'm trying to figure out why cvs won't build from gcc-4.1 |
| 19:55.20 | ewilhelm | so, I might not be the best source of info :-D |
| 19:55.27 | illethal | Haha. |
| 19:55.31 | illethal | I get ya, Linux. |
| 19:56.02 | ewilhelm | seems to be mostly a make problem |
| 19:56.21 | illethal | What distro are you on? |
| 19:56.37 | ewilhelm | Debian Etch |
| 19:56.48 | illethal | Ah k. |
| 19:57.08 | ewilhelm | seems to be working, but a ridiculous amount of manual cd && make stuff |
| 19:58.03 | illethal | That's what makes Linux fun. |
| 19:58.19 | ewilhelm | nah, aptitude is what makes it fun |
| 19:58.23 | illethal | Lmao |
| 19:58.34 | illethal | Yeah, synaptic is by far my favorite package manager I've used. |
| 19:58.57 | illethal | Does BRL-CAD have a GUI? |
| 19:59.04 | ewilhelm | yep |
| 19:59.08 | illethal | Or do you have to like make all the geo with math |
| 19:59.13 | illethal | K awesome. |
| 19:59.17 | ewilhelm | that too though |
| 19:59.28 | illethal | Ahhh, I've never done that before. |
| 19:59.40 | illethal | I've been playing around with 3D on my own for a few years, but not CAD. |
| 19:59.45 | ewilhelm | last I played with it, the command-line was much better at constructing geometry than the mouse |
| 20:00.10 | ewilhelm | its a "shell" (ala autocad's command-line) within the mged gui app |
| 20:00.17 | illethal | I probably won't be able to figure out how to use it, but it seems badass. |
| 20:00.32 | ewilhelm | so, it is interactive -- rather than a sort of batch CLI app |
| 20:00.46 | illethal | I see. |
| 20:00.49 | ewilhelm | you might want to try it -- I haven't updated for a few years |
| 20:00.58 | illethal | So you can also edit the object from the GUI, but you have to make it from the CLI? |
| 20:01.25 | ewilhelm | you can use the mouse, it just might be limited in expressiveness in some areas |
| 20:01.36 | illethal | Ah. |
| 20:03.21 | illethal | Will it work on Vista 64bits you think? |
| 20:03.36 | illethal | Not very many programs do lol |
| 20:03.51 | ewilhelm | it has a Tk gui, so maybe |
| 20:04.07 | ewilhelm | iirc, there are binaries on the sourceforge page |
| 20:04.32 | illethal | Hmm, no installer? |
| 20:04.46 | illethal | I think I'm too noob to use BRL-CAD, =| |
| 20:09.52 | *** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | |
| 20:13.50 | brlcad | howdy ewilhelm |
| 20:14.53 | brlcad | did you do a parallel -j build? I've ran into issues with that several times in the past where a failure gets through and the build tries to continue, not stopping when it should |
| 20:15.52 | brlcad | other automake/libtool bugs on nfs filesystems too |
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| 20:24.00 | ewilhelm | brlcad: yep -j 16 |
| 20:24.54 | dtidrow_work | 16? yikes |
| 20:25.02 | ewilhelm | distcc :-D |
| 20:25.06 | ewilhelm | is there a pastebot? |
| 20:25.08 | dtidrow_work | ah |
| 20:25.36 | dtidrow_work | so you basically have a 'compile farm'? |
| 20:26.11 | ewilhelm | brlcad: here's roughly what I ended-up doing |
| 20:26.13 | ewilhelm | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:27.15 | ewilhelm | the tcl (and maybe tk) had to be installed or I would get libtcl8.5.so |
| 20:27.23 | ewilhelm | ... errors |
| 20:28.14 | ewilhelm | then the pushd was all just a matter of stepping through the src/libbu src/libbn src/librt src/libwdb |
| 20:28.29 | ewilhelm | plus a stop-off at libsysv on the way back |
| 20:30.05 | ewilhelm | then I had to make install in src/other before src/ would work |
| 20:30.18 | ewilhelm | and make install src before $top would make |
| 20:30.46 | ewilhelm | it seems like it that last bit (and tcl) was more an LDFLAGS issue |
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| 20:35.31 | ewilhelm | brlcad: anyhow, it all got built and mged works |
| 20:35.51 | ewilhelm | but I can't "zoom all" on my converted stl -- shouldn't `reset` do that? |
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| 20:50.40 | ewilhelm | ah -- 'draw all' |
| 21:01.07 | brlcad | ~bzpaste |
| 21:01.10 | brlcad | ~bzpastebin |
| 21:01.11 | ibot | i guess bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 21:01.26 | brlcad | just fyi future ref |
| 21:01.32 | brlcad | or this |
| 21:01.34 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 21:01.34 | ibot | rumour has it, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 21:01.38 | brlcad | but no bot |
| 21:02.02 | ewilhelm | is there a shaded view mode? |
| 21:02.09 | brlcad | almost guaranteed, the parallel build is what caused the need for multiple passes to get past the build error |
| 21:02.23 | ewilhelm | i.e. without needing to raytrace |
| 21:02.35 | brlcad | there is |
| 21:02.38 | brlcad | it sucks |
| 21:02.51 | brlcad | that's some of the stuff we're working on, it gets to core representation issues |
| 21:03.02 | brlcad | part of the brep/nurbs work, multiple representations |
| 21:03.08 | ewilhelm | not opengl ? |
| 21:03.16 | brlcad | so we can go back and forth between explicit and implicit reps |
| 21:04.10 | brlcad | opengl is an explicit geometric representation, brl-cad historically has only dealt with implicit mathematical representations -- provides greater accuracy, compactness, efficiency, few other benefits |
| 21:04.22 | brlcad | but going from implicit to explicit is very non-trivial |
| 21:04.52 | brlcad | so just getting "polygons" out of an implicit rep reliably and quickly is actually a pretty tricky feat |
| 21:05.13 | ewilhelm | yep |
| 21:05.14 | brlcad | and opengl *only* deals with explicit polygonal representation formats |
| 21:05.22 | brlcad | er, s/polygonal// |
| 21:05.32 | brlcad | it does deal with a few explicit spline surface formats |
| 21:05.37 | brlcad | but no implicit formats |
| 21:06.12 | ewilhelm | iirc, autocad maintains a dual list of objects<->polygons in the view pipeline |
| 21:07.21 | brlcad | ewilhelm: iirc, going back to some talks over a year ago, you might be interested to know that I finally did get all of the STEP APs scanned and OCR'd :-) |
| 21:07.46 | ewilhelm | neat -- wasn't a year ago at this point though :-D |
| 21:07.47 | brlcad | autocad deals internally with explicit formats, spline surfaces |
| 21:07.58 | brlcad | it's dual-rep is explicit spline to explicit poly |
| 21:08.04 | brlcad | which is pretty trivial ;) |
| 21:08.23 | ewilhelm | isn't the CSG in autocad "implicit mathematical"? |
| 21:08.44 | brlcad | the operations are performed on explicits |
| 21:08.51 | brlcad | brb |
| 21:18.35 | brlcad | I'm in and out, but to your question -- yes CSG operations are implicit (by their very nature), but they're applying implicit operators to an explicit geometry representation |
| 21:18.59 | brlcad | that's rather different from applying implicit operators to implicit geometry -- there is no evaluated form |
| 21:19.59 | ewilhelm | ah, ok |
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| 22:32.04 | minute-ssh | brlcad: It was something I was running from the command line. And it is fully reproducable. |
| 22:32.29 | minute-ssh | Right now I am having internet trouble, hence why I am using SSH IRC as opposed to home IRC. So I might not respond. |
| 22:32.36 | brlcad | ok |
| 22:32.56 | minute-ssh | brlcad: Do you need any more info? |
| 22:33.06 | brlcad | yeah, what do you want me to do about it? :) |
| 22:33.16 | brlcad | sounds like a php bug :) |
| 22:33.19 | minute-ssh | Oh, ok. |
| 22:33.36 | brlcad | i can see if there's an update in ports |
| 22:33.49 | brlcad | i mean php crashing is definitely a php bug |
| 22:33.52 | minute-ssh | Juding from the response of ##php they suggested it was a bug in your executable. Non-essential, I will file a PHP bu report. |
| 22:33.53 | brlcad | do you know what causes it? |
| 22:34.14 | brlcad | that sounds like their way saying "that php binary is buggy" |
| 22:34.20 | brlcad | which is a bug in php |
| 22:34.29 | brlcad | just that it might be fixed in a newer version |
| 22:34.48 | minute-ssh | I haven't tracked down the exact cause, but I have tracked it down to my custom MySQL class. |
| 22:35.37 | brlcad | you could download/compile php and see if their latest sources still have the problem |
| 22:36.35 | brlcad | we're on 5.2.1 at the moment, latest in ports seems to be 5.2.3 |
| 22:37.22 | brlcad | I do really hate changing php unless there's a pressing need (you needing it would be a good enough reason, though) |
| 22:38.03 | brlcad | because it impacts the web install with apache and mod_php .. if the compilation flags aren't right, things can get wonky |
| 22:45.35 | minute-ssh | ok |
| 22:45.35 | minute-ssh | dw |
| 22:46.17 | minute-ssh | It is non-essential. |
| 22:52.39 | minute-ssh | I was doing it yesterday, but got sidetracked. |
| 22:53.06 | minute-ssh | It is late here now and I have to be getting on with something, so I will check it out more tomorrow. |
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| 02:13.38 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/AKi6rt49.html <---- whats this then |
| 02:18.00 | ewilhelm | IriX64: that sounds like the build error I was getting earlier |
| 02:18.48 | ewilhelm | see http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/makebrl.txt |
| 02:21.26 | IriX64 | thank you |
| 02:34.41 | IriX64 | exec ping |
| 02:34.46 | IriX64 | whoa |
| 02:34.49 | IriX64 | :) |
| 04:34.02 | IriX64 | what is the purpose of redefing tk functions to standard x functions in unixport.h? |
| 04:38.35 | brlcad | oh shoot .. didn't realize that they made intaval link against our libs too |
| 04:38.53 | IriX64 | :) |
| 04:39.02 | IriX64 | wtf is intaval ;) |
| 04:39.11 | brlcad | it's a new geometry importer |
| 04:39.16 | IriX64 | ah |
| 04:39.25 | brlcad | just added yesterday |
| 04:39.35 | IriX64 | ok |
| 04:40.52 | brlcad | related to the UK Ministry of Defence, one of their VL codes, written by friends in Netherlands and Germany |
| 04:41.05 | IriX64 | i see |
| 04:49.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am: |
| 04:49.36 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: ah crap. the converter uses libwdb which isn't/can't be compiled before |
| 04:49.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: src/other -- one of the few ways where recursive make actually bites us in the |
| 04:50.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: arse. need to move the converter to a directory that is traversed after |
| 04:50.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: src/other and after src/lib*, maybe misc/intaval or contrib/intaval or |
| 04:50.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: src/contrib/intaval etc. for now, just make the converter be compile-on-demand |
| 04:50.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: (i.e. cd src/other/intaval && make tgf-g) only. |
| 04:52.11 | IriX64 | i needed to get by that so i cp tgf-g.cpp tgf-g.exe and "touch it" and compile away merrily ;) |
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| 04:59.10 | IriX64 | mc |
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| 05:26.17 | IriX64_ | i'm relativly new to this, why is cvs at 7.11.0 and your topic says 7.10.4 is happening? |
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| 05:35.35 | IriX64 | Ethel Barrymore says "you grow up the day you have a real bellylaugh at yourself" I' must say Iv'e grown up a lot this past month :) |
| 06:26.40 | brlcad | IriX64: releases are made off of the STABLE branch, not HEAD, which lags behind HEAD development by usually a couple months |
| 06:28.07 | brlcad | and regardless, 7.10.4 is posted, so the next release is automatically set to the next odd numbered revision (which is either 7.10.5 or 7.11.0 ... emphasis on the 7.10.*5* and 7.*11*.0 for the odd number) |
| 06:54.41 | IriX64 | got it thanks |
| 06:55.13 | Supaplex | but i can haz cheezeburger now? |
| 07:21.53 | brlcad | sure |
| 07:38.43 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: remove old comment |
| 08:08.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (5 files in 3 dirs): by popular demand, add the g2dxf and dxf2g converters to the windows release build system |
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| 08:35.04 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (Makefile.am coswin.c): quell malloc warning, use libbu allocator |
| 08:39.45 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: quell warnings |
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| 00:42.00 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/hng0Fb41.html <--- new kids on the block have a problem |
| 01:05.57 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/HmDN2c78.html <--- found a critter in ltmain.sh |
| 01:12.55 | ``Erik | heh, EBCDIC, that's funny |
| 01:13.10 | IriX64 | not if you work for ibm :) |
| 01:13.23 | ``Erik | erm |
| 01:13.36 | ``Erik | and the last ibm that used that was what, the as400? |
| 01:13.47 | IriX64 | mv370 :) |
| 01:14.49 | IriX64 | doesn't solve *my problem tho, but what the heck |
| 01:15.25 | ``Erik | or ebcdic->ascii... I don't remember anymore |
| 01:15.29 | IriX64 | why not 8086 |
| 01:16.29 | IriX64 | the glory of unix=the iron doesn't matter :) |
| 01:17.04 | ``Erik | um, it was mostly 8086 crap, but 286 stuff was permitted |
| 01:17.11 | ``Erik | for some reason, 386 was not |
| 01:17.17 | ``Erik | and this was, like, '98 or '99 :( |
| 01:17.23 | ``Erik | (my second run at college) |
| 01:17.27 | IriX64 | was that around at that time |
| 01:17.42 | IriX64 | ah it was |
| 01:17.44 | ``Erik | pentium was around in like '95 |
| 01:18.10 | IriX64 | my memories like yours too far back to be accurate :) |
| 01:18.24 | ``Erik | I sure enjoyed doing asm on r2k a lot more |
| 01:18.31 | ``Erik | even though it was just using 'spim' |
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| 01:18.43 | IriX64 | don't know r2k or is that r2d2 :) |
| 01:18.55 | ``Erik | r2000, early MIPS chip |
| 01:19.00 | IriX64 | ah |
| 01:19.05 | ``Erik | um, predecessor to what you may've seen in an sgi |
| 01:19.20 | ``Erik | the o2 bookend I have sports an r10k |
| 01:19.29 | IriX64 | im only familiar with pc's and dec schtuff |
| 01:19.40 | ``Erik | alphas were almost good |
| 01:19.47 | IriX64 | still are |
| 01:19.51 | ``Erik | if they woulda used the right endian, I coulda loved 'em :D |
| 01:19.56 | IriX64 | heh |
| 01:20.08 | ``Erik | they also did very horrible things |
| 01:20.09 | IriX64 | hate reversals do you |
| 01:20.32 | IriX64 | ?? prioris |
| 01:20.37 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 01:20.42 | ``Erik | shaped like a coffee table |
| 01:20.48 | IriX64 | dont know that one |
| 01:20.54 | ``Erik | cabinet for like 8 scsi drives, big honkin' backplane board |
| 01:21.02 | IriX64 | ah |
| 01:21.03 | ``Erik | the cpu and memory boards popped into the backplane |
| 01:21.12 | ``Erik | I had a dual p133 cpu card |
| 01:21.20 | IriX64 | unibus machine or omnibus |
| 01:21.31 | ``Erik | and like an 8 slot 30pin simm card |
| 01:21.35 | ``Erik | um, eisa |
| 01:21.41 | ``Erik | it was all eisa |
| 01:21.45 | IriX64 | ah a dec pc attempt |
| 01:21.48 | ``Erik | yes |
| 01:21.50 | ``Erik | ... |
| 01:21.52 | ``Erik | p133's... |
| 01:21.55 | ``Erik | simm... |
| 01:21.58 | IriX64 | i know |
| 01:22.12 | ``Erik | cheaper than, say, an sbus equiped machine... but... |
| 01:22.19 | IriX64 | never seen it the rainbow tho i played with |
| 01:22.31 | ``Erik | amusingly enough, I couldn't get nt3.51 or nt4 to install on it... linux took it though |
| 01:22.38 | ``Erik | the alphas were a hell of a lot better |
| 01:22.40 | IriX64 | heh |
| 01:22.48 | ``Erik | 27xsoemthingsomething... |
| 01:23.03 | IriX64 | depends who you talk to :) |
| 01:23.06 | ``Erik | damn fast, both in crunch per clock and in straight clock at the time |
| 01:23.23 | ``Erik | and I think the nt on alpha had... real smart shit. |
| 01:23.41 | IriX64 | remember the alpha with nt |
| 01:23.49 | IriX64 | nice enoufgh |
| 01:23.50 | ``Erik | I'm under the impression (having never used it) that it had a machine code translator that cached the converted machine code |
| 01:23.53 | IriX64 | enough |
| 01:24.12 | ``Erik | so you could slap an i386 program on it, run it, it'd sit and spin for a minute the first time... then run just fine |
| 01:24.19 | ``Erik | next time ya launched it, it just popped right up and worked |
| 01:24.26 | IriX64 | i was happy i could do serial port stuff with it |
| 01:24.57 | ``Erik | oh, yeah, ya got leenewx or fbsd, PIC chips, and a programmer? |
| 01:25.16 | ``Erik | what's his name is making a new release of picprog and wants people to test the new serial timing code :D |
| 01:25.38 | IriX64 | seriously? i'm a hobbiest :) |
| 01:26.15 | ``Erik | this is free software kinda targetting the hobbyist |
| 01:26.35 | ``Erik | he has a short lift of people he knew were interested (I maintain the fbsd port, so I was on it) |
| 01:26.53 | ``Erik | but I only have a couple 16f88's and haven't done anything honestly noteworthy with 'em |
| 01:27.06 | ``Erik | other than making LED's blink in patterns |
| 01:27.12 | IriX64 | don't have the tools man |
| 01:27.20 | ``Erik | software or hw? |
| 01:27.24 | IriX64 | hw |
| 01:27.26 | ``Erik | ah |
| 01:27.36 | ``Erik | the programmer I got was like $15, and the chips were like 2.50 a pop |
| 01:27.47 | ``Erik | the serial cable was probably the most expensive part, I think it was $20 :( |
| 01:28.02 | IriX64 | got enough to keep me busy but thanks |
| 01:28.09 | ``Erik | but I already had a breadboard and a huge box o' parts |
| 01:28.51 | ``Erik | and a 5w cheap power supply I made from the transformer out of a cheap broken alarm clock, 4 diodes, 2 caps and a resistor :D |
| 01:29.01 | IriX64 | heh |
| 01:29.09 | ``Erik | oh, and a candle to drop wax on the assembly once I was happy with the output DC signal |
| 01:29.13 | IriX64 | zeners are cheap |
| 01:29.31 | ``Erik | yeah, btu I didn't have any |
| 01:29.44 | IriX64 | :( |
| 01:29.52 | ``Erik | <-- scratches his head and wonders how zeners would simplify a bridge |
| 01:30.00 | IriX64 | heh |
| 01:30.03 | IriX64 | wouldn't |
| 01:30.17 | IriX64 | just stating that they're cheap :) |
| 01:30.22 | ``Erik | the kind I had were the cheapest, not even germaniums |
| 01:30.34 | ``Erik | the ones that you used to be able to get at radioshack in a package of like 100 for $2 |
| 01:30.41 | ``Erik | back when radioshack did that kinda thing |
| 01:30.44 | IriX64 | sliconized mutational diodes were they |
| 01:31.00 | ``Erik | I've have to look... the cheapest on the rac |
| 01:31.03 | ``Erik | per unit |
| 01:31.06 | IriX64 | heh |
| 01:31.21 | ``Erik | I have way more ceramic caps than electrolytics, too |
| 01:31.38 | IriX64 | teardrops too are cheap |
| 01:31.41 | ``Erik | my big dollar stuff is mostly the 74xx series ic's I think |
| 01:32.02 | IriX64 | the hobbisyts friend standard ttl |
| 01:32.12 | ``Erik | thought I have a few "weird" items, like a 10 bar LED, and a couple 8 piece LED's |
| 01:32.22 | ``Erik | 555's and 556's, some 741's I think |
| 01:32.35 | IriX64 | stuff like that gets costly too |
| 01:32.45 | ``Erik | the LED's? or the ic's? |
| 01:32.50 | IriX64 | leds |
| 01:32.52 | ``Erik | the ic's are ass cheap, common as hell |
| 01:32.57 | IriX64 | true |
| 01:33.02 | ``Erik | yeah, I think they were a few bucks each |
| 01:33.03 | IriX64 | not 741's tho |
| 01:33.20 | ``Erik | hum, I got a box with several 741's for a couple bucks |
| 01:33.27 | IriX64 | 555 are as common as dirt as far as timer chips go |
| 01:33.29 | ``Erik | have yet to find a good use for an opamp like that |
| 01:34.17 | ``Erik | I want to buy an m68020 or something, some crud for memory, mebbe something to do video signals... see if I can make me a little unix machine |
| 01:34.24 | ``Erik | and code up a unix workalike on it :D |
| 01:34.27 | IriX64 | the memory data book as usefull as the ttl data book |
| 01:34.39 | ``Erik | I think the 20 introduced the mmu |
| 01:34.47 | IriX64 | i have faichild what do you use |
| 01:34.53 | IriX64 | fairchild |
| 01:35.00 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 01:35.03 | IriX64 | for reference |
| 01:35.09 | IriX64 | books now |
| 01:35.11 | ``Erik | um, these days? the intarweb |
| 01:35.22 | IriX64 | i prefer paper in my hand |
| 01:35.42 | ``Erik | I used to have, um, the little paperbacks with the grid pattern on the cover that you could get at radioshack |
| 01:35.48 | ``Erik | btu they're at my parents |
| 01:35.57 | IriX64 | never used those |
| 01:36.07 | ``Erik | I have a notebook with the pinouts for msot of those chips from a college class |
| 01:36.15 | ``Erik | hand drawn notes from class |
| 01:36.15 | IriX64 | ah |
| 01:36.25 | ``Erik | I was introduced to the 74xx's in a class |
| 01:36.42 | ``Erik | and the 555 and 556 were just that damn common, that I put those in there, too |
| 01:36.51 | IriX64 | i was introduced to them in industry |
| 01:37.04 | ``Erik | the 741, I have a book from one of those ancient "101 projects in electronics" kids |
| 01:37.04 | ``Erik | kits |
| 01:37.14 | IriX64 | ah |
| 01:37.17 | ``Erik | too bad those don't seem to exist anymore |
| 01:37.37 | IriX64 | i never looked , really they stopped them |
| 01:37.55 | ``Erik | I know the chemistry kits are gone, I haven't SEEN an electronics kit |
| 01:38.06 | IriX64 | blargh |
| 01:38.23 | IriX64 | kids used to eat those up |
| 01:38.33 | ``Erik | chemistry kits were beaten down by politics, cuz, uh, some of those chemicals might possibly create something dangerous if mixed just right |
| 01:39.03 | IriX64 | heh and leave it to a bright kid to "mix" them right :) |
| 01:39.41 | ``Erik | <-- personally kinda thinks parents should be more involved and should be more education *shrug* :/ |
| 01:40.32 | ``Erik | and if'n ya dick with anything ya don't know, understand it may be a little dangerous and learn appropriate safety policies |
| 01:40.33 | IriX64 | truth |
| 01:40.50 | IriX64 | well its making again, bbiab |
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| 02:35.38 | ``Erik | oh ho ho |
| 02:35.41 | ``Erik | how ironical |
| 02:35.48 | ``Erik | http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/31/2256206 |
| 03:03.15 | IriX64 | heheh they heard you |
| 03:58.06 | ``Erik | starting about 6 years ago. |
| 05:37.49 | IriX64 | man there's a dnl without a preceding # in configure.in in tk/unix |
| 05:43.31 | IriX64 | the ' in don't presents a problem |
| 06:18.26 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.8.4doesvista64.png :) |
| 06:35.26 | IriX64 | nite all |
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| 15:02.02 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: need all-am to be dependent upon built_sources else someone doing a make install without first running make will end up failing to generate the COUNT, DATE, HOST, USER, PATH files |
| 15:02.22 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: merge from head, need built_sources for all-am |
| 15:03.07 | ``Erik | it ist time to do the big honkin' join? |
| 15:05.38 | brlcad | not yet |
| 15:05.53 | brlcad | not until the remaining builds are posted |
| 15:06.03 | brlcad | (still need irix and solaris) |
| 15:07.43 | brlcad | this will possibly be the last irix release :( |
| 15:08.42 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:25.26 | *** join/#brlcad nita (n=nita@i-83-67-61-194.freedom2surf.net) | |
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| 18:46.52 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: yep, IRIX is a dying OS :-\ |
| 18:47.12 | dtidrow_work | the company isn't doing much better, afaik |
| 18:54.09 | PrezKennedy | people still use IRIX? |
| 19:20.40 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:21.07 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/I3oL3a29.html <---- have i reported this already? |
| 19:23.06 | minute | PrezKennedy: HAHA |
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| 19:34.19 | IriX64 | pssst, there's 9 dnl's in config.in in src/other/tk/unix. |
| 19:35.54 | IriX64 | some in tcl too |
| 19:37.38 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/BEB5Wr15.html <---- rtsrv duplicates bu_bomb too |
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| 19:42.29 | IriX64 | errr +o :) |
| 19:52.55 | ``Erik | um, ok? |
| 19:53.07 | IriX64 | so eh :) |
| 19:53.37 | ``Erik | 'dnl' is m4 for a line comment (do not list or something)... autoconf will remove thos elines when the configure script is generated |
| 19:53.59 | IriX64 | my build platform is kinda weird ``Erik so i'm not sure.... |
| 19:54.03 | ``Erik | <-- personally prefers shell comments as he looks through the generated configure script more often than he'd like |
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| 20:21.46 | brlcad | IriX64: it *intentionally* duplicates bu_bomb as a scope override -- there's some compiler flag amiss if it's complaining about it |
| 20:22.25 | brlcad | and the dnl's are normal, part of m4 syntax |
| 20:22.36 | brlcad | there are dnl's throughout our own top-level configure.ac |
| 20:24.36 | IriX64 | i'll check my flags then thanks |
| 20:25.00 | brlcad | check the gcc documentation |
| 20:25.11 | IriX64 | way ahead of you :) |
| 20:26.31 | IriX64 | found --allow-multiple-definition, will that do it |
| 20:30.01 | brlcad | maybe |
| 20:30.53 | brlcad | my gcc nor ld has that option, so can't be sure |
| 20:31.11 | brlcad | if it's a linker option, it'll need to be an LDFLAGS instead of a CFLAGS |
| 20:34.15 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.1: clarify that the user must specify the size if the image is not 512x512 |
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| 21:30.04 | iMinute | =auit |
| 21:30.07 | iMinute | oops |
| 21:30.09 | iMinute | wrong channel |
| 21:36.48 | brlcad | damn skippy! |
| 21:37.42 | iMinute | hmm? |
| 21:37.45 | iMinute | oh |
| 21:37.47 | iMinute | starfox |
| 21:37.47 | brlcad | nvr mind :) |
| 21:37.49 | iMinute | hehe |
| 21:38.00 | iMinute | :D |
| 21:38.13 | brlcad | :D |
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| 21:51.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.c: warn if the output PNG image dimensions are smaller than the input PIX image, related to support request from mallory |
| 21:57.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 21:57.22 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: pix-png now warns the user if the PNG being created has image dimenions smaller |
| 21:57.24 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: than the PIX file that was given as input. The tool compares the size of the |
| 21:57.26 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: input and output images, and reports the difference if there is one; it also |
| 21:57.28 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: suggest what flags the user may need to use if the input has recognizable image |
| 21:57.30 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: dimensions. This feature was implemented in response to a support request from |
| 21:57.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Mallory where he was confused by the black PNG image produced (which happened to |
| 22:01.39 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged isn't updating the graphics window with the new 8.5 tcl (sometimes) |
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| 22:44.29 | brlcad | 95k for just under 4TB with support, without discounts |
| 22:45.50 | IriX64 | brlcad=deep pockets? :) |
| 22:47.53 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 22:48.03 | IriX64 | :) |
| 22:52.13 | starseeker | The unthinkable has happened - the STIX fonts have reached a Beta release |
| 22:52.32 | starseeker | http://www.stixfonts.org/ |
| 22:52.34 | brlcad | mm.. $50k for a 12TB decked out Mac |
| 22:52.52 | starseeker | Drool... |
| 22:53.15 | starseeker | (not that BRL-CAD is likely to need the STIX fonts, I suppose...) |
| 22:53.27 | brlcad | starseeker: hmm, interesting |
| 22:54.02 | *** part/#brlcad ewilhelm (n=ewilhelm@pool-71-111-49-155.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 22:54.11 | starseeker | That's roughly the scientific equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever being released ;-) |
| 22:54.12 | brlcad | that actually is pretty interesting |
| 22:54.43 | brlcad | new modeler is going to ship with fonts, sounds like stix might be what we'd want to go with |
| 22:54.46 | starseeker | If you download 'em, watch out for the zip file - it dumps everything into the same directory as the zip file itself is in |
| 22:54.52 | starseeker | cool :-) |
| 22:54.54 | brlcad | presuming freetype can read them |
| 22:55.04 | starseeker | one would hope :-) |
| 22:55.22 | brlcad | looks like at least their "goal" is TTF's |
| 22:55.40 | starseeker | Yes - if it doesn't do what you need it's probably a bug they want to hear about |
| 22:56.17 | brlcad | bah, they seriously need a "screenshots" page ... |
| 22:56.38 | brlcad | not a glyphs page that requires me to install them |
| 22:57.39 | starseeker | agreed |
| 22:58.36 | brlcad | I have a sampling of decent free fonts that I was going to use, but a project dedicated to making good scientific fonts would be even better |
| 22:59.33 | brlcad | mm.. fun, 7.10.4 Mac install of BRL-CAD is nearly 500MB |
| 22:59.36 | ``Erik | hum |
| 22:59.39 | brlcad | granted, that's with debugging symbols |
| 22:59.57 | ``Erik | "t2" is of the t1000 family? |
| 23:00.19 | ``Erik | this time, we dont' have to crush it, it's here to save us from the goopy one? O.o :D |
| 23:01.11 | brlcad | we didn't have to crush it the first time .. someone and someone else just thought it'd be fun to set up and play with |
| 23:01.26 | louipc | wow my install is just 96M |
| 23:01.40 | brlcad | louipc: is that stripped? |
| 23:01.53 | louipc | well it doesn't have tcl... |
| 23:01.53 | ``Erik | stripped, space optimized and 32 bit? |
| 23:02.11 | louipc | not stripped but 32 bit yep |
| 23:02.16 | ``Erik | tcl is a big space consumer, all those extra man pages, tz files, tcl files, ... |
| 23:02.25 | brlcad | oooh, good point, I was going to make these universal binaries... |
| 23:02.29 | brlcad | that'll make them 2x |
| 23:02.34 | ``Erik | um, libtool is fond of stripping on install |
| 23:02.46 | brlcad | it's not supposed to |
| 23:02.50 | brlcad | there's a flag for stripping |
| 23:02.51 | ``Erik | go into like src/fb, type "make install" and see if it's getting the -s |
| 23:03.02 | ``Erik | I've seen it 'just happen' before... unless I'm completely outta it :D |
| 23:03.36 | ``Erik | the t5220 would be better on infrastructure than the apple, I think... |
| 23:03.40 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/quote.pdf is kinda what I'm thinking of |
| 23:05.13 | brlcad | it would be better of course, just not sure about it for the price point given with that price diff there could even be <1hr on-site support |
| 23:05.28 | ``Erik | oh yeah, they saddle up for that support |
| 23:05.59 | brlcad | i mean the apple could be configured for <1hr for less than the sun |
| 23:06.09 | ``Erik | but, um, is it to be a file server or a compute server? |
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| 23:06.18 | brlcad | the sun is configured for same day iirc, woulda cost more for less |
| 23:06.31 | ``Erik | <-- not keen on mixing the two, kinda likes the seperation of services |
| 23:07.12 | brlcad | it's neither and both, needs to be big enough to fit all the data and fast enough to not be annoying |
| 23:08.01 | ``Erik | that'll give us, what, ~3tb live at raid5? |
| 23:08.06 | brlcad | which is probably a few TB, really fast disks, not sucky cpus .. bus bandwidths, wide pipes |
| 23:08.22 | ``Erik | or almost 2 at 0+1 ? |
| 23:08.28 | brlcad | yeah, about that much |
| 23:08.44 | ``Erik | are they still windowed big endian chips? |
| 23:08.47 | ``Erik | or didja look? |
| 23:08.56 | brlcad | yeah, that was something else I liked |
| 23:09.08 | brlcad | one of the few big end servers remaining |
| 23:09.14 | ``Erik | we'd be able to retire the e420 when it goes out of service |
| 23:09.39 | brlcad | the new "super" threading servers, able to run 64 threads simultaneously without skipping a beat |
| 23:09.52 | brlcad | that would be *really interesting to test out |
| 23:10.23 | ``Erik | <-- likes suns cuz he did sysadmin at a place where downtime was measured in millions an hour :) the price was never an issue, so'z is not used to really judging that angle |
| 23:10.42 | ``Erik | we can always apply for a 60 day test ride |
| 23:10.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:11.18 | brlcad | they also undoubtedly paid 7 figures for their infrastructure :P |
| 23:11.38 | ``Erik | when I lived in a place where the entire mgmt chain cared about getting shit done instead of politics, we had so many $'s in sun, they'd loan us high end (like 4800, 6800) boxes for a year at a whack |
| 23:12.01 | ``Erik | uhm, more than 7... :) |
| 23:12.25 | brlcad | meant at least 7 |
| 23:13.03 | ``Erik | the, uh, maintenance, staff, infrastructure, etc costs for the admin/web/it/softwaredev was in the rough neighborhood of a billion a year |
| 23:13.37 | brlcad | yeah, that's counting too much (for what is being compared) |
| 23:13.40 | ``Erik | and it wasn't seen as "productive" from the other companies, so under constant attack to defend those $'s |
| 23:13.44 | brlcad | the orgs are massively different in size too |
| 23:13.45 | ``Erik | yeah, tha'ts the only number I know |
| 23:14.07 | ``Erik | I showed up when I wanted, left when I wanted, more or less did what I wanted, and got paid a lot more than I do here :) |
| 23:14.38 | brlcad | for any reasonably small dev team, I think it's reasonable to try to stay under 6 figures |
| 23:14.46 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:14.54 | brlcad | so then .. uh, why'd you leave? :P |
| 23:15.18 | brlcad | those $$'s were too much apparently ;) |
| 23:15.38 | ``Erik | was a limited contract to perm position, and bullshit politics lost me on the pickup |
| 23:16.15 | ``Erik | a cohort who changed teams got the inside scoop from some people, the "you didn't hear this, but" word was that I was seen talking to the wrong people (the guys on my team who quit for google right after I was jobless) |
| 23:17.17 | brlcad | no strip on install |
| 23:17.25 | ``Erik | I was in one of those pesky rogue groups that doesn't play buy the corporate rules and outshines everyone with success, and useless politicos really hate that :D |
| 23:18.07 | brlcad | sounds like how the cad team used to be |
| 23:18.31 | ``Erik | hrm, should be less than a 4x size bump for just 64b/uni over 32/PF... must be the tickle |
| 23:18.52 | ``Erik | there were traces of that bubble when I got here :( |
| 23:18.58 | brlcad | i haven't made the uni yet, just going by estimates I have from other builds |
| 23:19.22 | brlcad | er, and that should be about 2x .. not 4x |
| 23:19.30 | brlcad | i expect about a 1GB install |
| 23:20.03 | ``Erik | hrm, uni should about be 2x... does... wait, you're on an i386 apple, not a g5? |
| 23:20.13 | ``Erik | does g5 have variable width opcodes? |
| 23:20.16 | brlcad | 2GB if I make all four platforms (32 ppc, 64 ppc, 32 x86, 64 x86) |
| 23:20.44 | ``Erik | is there 64b x86 on apple? O.o :D |
| 23:20.53 | brlcad | oh, you got 4x off what it'd be stripped |
| 23:21.13 | brlcad | the strip savings is more in tune with just how much symbolage there is |
| 23:21.19 | ``Erik | unix (2x) * 64b (2x) is what I was thinking |
| 23:21.33 | ``Erik | er |
| 23:21.35 | ``Erik | uni |
| 23:21.50 | ``Erik | heh, damn muscle memory :D I talk about unix way too much, apparently |
| 23:22.12 | brlcad | yeah, 10.4 has 64bit support and 10.5 has it through and through |
| 23:22.29 | ``Erik | I didn't think the core duos had that support |
| 23:22.50 | brlcad | the workstations are quad-core xeons |
| 23:23.04 | ``Erik | at most, the EMT64 memory hack, not 64b arithmatic and stuff |
| 23:23.06 | brlcad | laptpos are core 2 duos |
| 23:23.22 | ``Erik | okie, I haven't looked at asm notions on the footrest yet |
| 23:23.31 | brlcad | either way, it works -- i've compiled the 4-way uni binaries :) |
| 23:24.03 | brlcad | and they do kick in on the new workstations if you go 64bit |
| 23:24.06 | ``Erik | the 4 core opteron fbsd box seems to compile faster, so'z I use it |
| 23:24.41 | brlcad | yeah, apple has their own optimization loop that does "a little bit better" than gcc's default, but takes way longer |
| 23:24.57 | brlcad | used to be massive difference |
| 23:25.16 | ``Erik | that, the short&quick bsd land file ops seem significantly slower (perhaps the mach layer) |
| 23:25.46 | brlcad | a compile on my old laptop took an hour under mac os x, and 20 minutes on the same hardware running yellow dog linux, same version of gcc |
| 23:25.53 | ``Erik | and I haven't gotten the tuning to allow bunches of processes to run in parallel, so'z I keep running into fork resource unavaiable crap when I try to od things fast :D |
| 23:26.16 | brlcad | ah, you have to bump up your limit |
| 23:26.20 | brlcad | it's not set for devs by default |
| 23:26.31 | ``Erik | now, if you took, say, a huge single .c file and compiled it with -pipe, what was the difference? :D |
| 23:26.43 | ``Erik | no, at least, not devs who work in terminal. |
| 23:27.08 | brlcad | it was way slower even on single file -- that was one of the tests I ran |
| 23:27.27 | brlcad | i don't remember those exact numbers, but it was more than 2x at O3 |
| 23:27.48 | ``Erik | and O0? :D |
| 23:27.50 | brlcad | and after talking to some of the apple devs, they commented on their custom optimization loop |
| 23:28.39 | brlcad | they got a couple of the old mipspro compiler guys as well, put them to work |
| 23:29.35 | brlcad | you should check your sysctl kern.maxproc -- it should be > 512 |
| 23:33.31 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:33.41 | ``Erik | I think I made it 4x, and that alleviated it a LITTLE |
| 23:33.50 | ``Erik | but I think that was still fairly shy of 512 |
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| 23:52.02 | ``Erik | mebbe it's maxprocperuid that's got me down |
| 00:19.10 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/anothershot.png :) |
| 00:20.15 | IriX64 | ahem... does if_wgl have known issues |
| 00:21.04 | IriX64 | i put a #if 0 in plave of #ifdef IF_WGL for now |
| 00:21.12 | IriX64 | err place |
| 00:22.26 | IriX64 | that gets me by that point for now |
| 00:38.34 | bpoole | What a surprise, it's havoc.png. |
| 00:39.21 | bpoole | You shouldn't do hackish things like that, file a bug report or something and get the real problem fixed. |
| 00:41.59 | ``Erik | um |
| 00:42.06 | ``Erik | if_wgl is not, uh |
| 00:42.18 | ``Erik | something any of the primary developers look at |
| 00:42.30 | ``Erik | all, y'know, 1.5 of us O:-) |
| 00:43.16 | ``Erik | but all those awesome commits from bparker for winders support... he's all dollared up to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and bubble gum isn't in the budget |
| 00:43.48 | ``Erik | or, uh, ain't in the budget |
| 00:53.15 | IriX64 | :) |
| 00:54.59 | IriX64 | i'm up to libdm :) |
| 00:59.21 | IriX64 | bpoole: i *can't file formal bug reports |
| 00:59.32 | bpoole | Why not? |
| 00:59.35 | IriX64 | my system is the weirdest thing you'll ever see |
| 00:59.58 | IriX64 | thank God for these guys :) |
| 01:00.01 | bpoole | Did brlcad ask you not to file them? |
| 01:00.10 | IriX64 | no i elected not too |
| 01:00.21 | IriX64 | never quite sure whos at fault |
| 01:01.27 | IriX64 | sort of a "gentlemans agreement" :) |
| 01:03.15 | IriX64 | bpoole in the past two weeks ive done a complete cvs checkout of brlcad at least 5 times |
| 01:14.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:15.07 | ``Erik | you can file formal bug reports. But if it's an issue with YOUR system, we will say so. |
| 01:15.24 | IriX64 | as is proper |
| 01:15.31 | ``Erik | and since YOUR system is twisted from anything "normal", you'll probably get a lot of bounced like that :) |
| 01:15.32 | IriX64 | rebootz bbiab |
| 01:15.40 | IriX64 | heh yea |
| 01:15.42 | ``Erik | I have a cygwin on uhhhh, xp I think? |
| 01:21.35 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:21.58 | IriX64 | heh sorry to cut it short |
| 01:22.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:22.08 | ``Erik | anyays, I said |
| 01:22.11 | ``Erik | I have a cygwin on uhhhh, xp I think? |
| 01:22.21 | IriX64 | heh vista64 ;) |
| 01:22.31 | ``Erik | if you have something you consider legit, I can attempt to replicate :D |
| 01:23.25 | IriX64 | thankyou |
| 01:23.32 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:24.17 | ``Erik | <-- wants the damn software to work... thinks awful low of the PF platform, but *shrug* it's a popular platofrm |
| 01:25.32 | IriX64 | so is winblows :) |
| 01:31.58 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/4LdcG439.html <--- tedit !?!?! |
| 01:34.19 | louipc | IriX64: what's the point of posting a picture of that same helicopter repeatedly? lol |
| 01:35.16 | IriX64 | wanna see how many attitudes i can put it in by dragging it on the screen :) |
| 01:35.53 | louipc | huh? |
| 01:36.18 | IriX64 | :) |
| 01:36.47 | louipc | I don't understand what you said |
| 01:36.59 | IriX64 | it's ok |
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| 01:46.23 | starseeker | Woo-hoo :-). |
| 01:46.37 | starseeker | http://www.stixfonts.org/allGlyphs.html is now much more interesting |
| 01:47.11 | starseeker | For any Gentoo folk out there, this is an ebuild done the Wrong Way but it gets the job done ;-): http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197841 |
| 01:47.29 | starseeker | (or, more accurately, it needs a bundle of fonts that are bundled the Right Way...) |
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| 02:16.48 | ``Erik | oh, uh |
| 02:16.50 | ``Erik | brlcad |
| 02:17.08 | ``Erik | 700 ain't a permission I can have my way with |
| 02:25.04 | IriX64 | hmmmm funky build is installing :) |
| 02:45.07 | IriX64 | jove works, mged doesn't shrug |
| 02:52.52 | IriX64 | afk |
| 03:22.43 | ``Erik | heh |
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| 04:19.53 | IriX64 | 8 dll's and an exe and we have irssi for windoze |
| 04:28.53 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/irssiforwindows-cygwinport.zip <---- if you wanna peek :) |
| 05:45.42 | brlcad | starseeker: screenshot of your allGlyphs? :) |
| 05:46.21 | brlcad | ``Erik: 700 where? |
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| 12:02.43 | starseeker | brlcad: Good idea - working on it. Better way might actually be a postscript or pdf file - it's a LONG list of characters |
| 12:05.31 | starseeker | Anybody know a good spot to upload a pdf file? |
| 12:08.58 | Z80-Boy | starseeker: they get annoyed no matter what |
| 12:17.41 | ``Erik | brlcad: the directory you scp'd over from that cd |
| 12:27.41 | starseeker | brlcad: Apparently the Stix fonts in their current form are actually OpenType - does that work for BRL-CAD? |
| 12:34.39 | starseeker | Interesting - I can't seem to print a postscript file containing visuals of all the fonts. |
| 12:37.52 | starseeker | ``Erik: what did I do? |
| 12:40.59 | ``Erik | spoke? :D |
| 12:41.07 | ``Erik | <-- is feeling nonoptimal :( |
| 12:41.09 | starseeker | Ah :-) Heavy night? |
| 12:41.21 | ``Erik | no |
| 12:41.28 | ``Erik | just woke up feeling like chit |
| 12:41.31 | starseeker | ugh |
| 12:46.47 | starseeker | brlcad: I've created a pdf of what I can get to print (which is a fair part of it) although I'm not totally sure if it needs the fonts to be installed. |
| 12:47.36 | starseeker | It's a bit over 1.5 megs if you want to give it a shot - should I email it? |
| 12:52.40 | brlcad | i wasn't looking for the whole thing, just a sampling of the quality :) |
| 12:52.50 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 12:53.17 | brlcad | ah, you still don't have a .bz account, i should fix that sometime.. |
| 12:53.25 | starseeker | Erm. OK, I can either take a screenshot of some selected part, or email you the pdf - what's your preference? |
| 12:53.44 | brlcad | if you already have the pdf, can e-mail it |
| 12:53.50 | brlcad | if not, whatever is easy :) |
| 12:53.58 | starseeker | I've got it :-) |
| 12:55.13 | starseeker | OK, sent to your mac addy - if you can't see it I'll snap a screenshot |
| 12:57.41 | ``Erik | speaking of |
| 12:57.51 | ``Erik | have you asked um, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org ? |
| 12:59.26 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, it came through - thanks |
| 12:59.40 | starseeker | brlcad: np :-) Does it render correctly? |
| 13:00.00 | brlcad | not quite as impressive as I'd hoped, but it all came through :) |
| 13:00.38 | brlcad | the sizes need to be about 1000% to really see the font metrics |
| 13:00.47 | starseeker | Hmm |
| 13:01.41 | starseeker | I'll see if I can get creative later, but I'm going up to see my girlfriend this weekend so it might be next week before I can take a stab at it |
| 13:02.02 | brlcad | you don't have to, it was enought to "get" what they're doing |
| 13:02.13 | starseeker | Cool :-). |
| 13:02.21 | brlcad | they're more about creating a complete set |
| 13:02.24 | starseeker | Yep |
| 13:03.36 | starseeker | Probably not really what BRL-CAD needs, unless we start typesetting mathematics in the models ;-) |
| 13:04.05 | ``Erik | do we need, say, a src/tclscripts/mged/addons ? or something? |
| 13:04.23 | ``Erik | as a kinda playground for those too nervous to stab at the guts? |
| 13:08.06 | ``Erik | dave in the oss mode using sf would be a huge win for everyone, I think... his execution might be a little weak, but that's what the hardcore computer nerds are there to fix up, he bridges the gap between the coder and user very well |
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| 20:38.08 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/RSXIaR24.html <--- this ones for "interests" sake only :) |
| 20:44.43 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/sFykdn31.html <--- this ones live |
| 20:45.17 | brlcad | that's a winsock problem, not ours, but thanks |
| 20:46.05 | brlcad | If I could disable the "report this to us" comment, I would -- the headers are rarely ever anything we have anything to deal with |
| 20:46.20 | IriX64 | understood |
| 20:50.36 | IriX64 | i don't speak configure.in but i assume this ' is reserved? must be because my editor shows stuff as text where those critters are used in a dnl in tk configure.in |
| 20:51.24 | IriX64 | text as opposed to code |
| 20:57.15 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/VnnY1E77.html <---- this ones just a mite |
| 20:58.22 | IriX64 | i'll turn it off now :) |
| 21:04.22 | IriX64 | this time I took autogen's advice and just typed ./configure followed by make :) |
| 21:09.55 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/buildingbrlcadonvist64.png <---- proof that windoze systems can be usefull :) |
| 21:10.50 | brlcad | heh, 404 not found |
| 21:11.40 | IriX64 | hrm |
| 21:12.26 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/buildingbrlcadonvista64.png |
| 21:13.01 | starseeker | Yep, that worked |
| 21:13.07 | IriX64 | heh |
| 21:27.04 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/dwe1XV50.html <--- man who's using a \r insdtead of a \n ? |
| 21:30.37 | brlcad | it's just using echo |
| 21:30.56 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 21:32.02 | IriX64 | path problems now.... thats not you :) |
| 21:32.39 | IriX64 | say does this hold in *nix land set path=%path%;whatever? |
| 21:32.55 | brlcad | depends entirely on your shell |
| 21:33.02 | IriX64 | i have bash |
| 21:33.05 | brlcad | then no |
| 21:33.13 | IriX64 | farkles |
| 21:33.26 | brlcad | export PATH=whatever:$PATH |
| 21:33.46 | IriX64 | ahh thats what i'm looking for many thanks |
| 21:34.46 | IriX64 | i wonder if i did that.... the windows path may be updated too ?!? |
| 21:36.53 | IriX64 | btw did anybody with a win32 system try that irssi thingy on my site |
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| 21:42.06 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/Ph6NR485.html <--- are mites like this nedding to be reported too? |
| 21:43.59 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/rHR79n50.html <--- another in the same vein |
| 21:49.18 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/1UtiWP79.html <--- murphy can't type worth a darn :) |
| 21:49.53 | brlcad | there is no \i in vers.c |
| 21:50.22 | brlcad | I'm betting you edited one of the files in include/conf due to the earlier issue, and made a typo |
| 21:50.37 | IriX64 | good point |
| 21:50.41 | brlcad | and have just been spamming the channel with your own mistake.. |
| 21:50.42 | IriX64 | ill check |
| 21:50.55 | IriX64 | as i said ill stop now |
| 21:51.05 | brlcad | you never said you'd stop |
| 21:51.17 | IriX64 | yea i did but i didnt |
| 21:52.06 | brlcad | not in my log's history |
| 21:52.59 | IriX64 | <IriX64> i'll turn it off now :) |
| 21:53.23 | IriX64 | meaning i'll stop now |
| 21:54.06 | IriX64 | but dinner is getting old and cold, i'll be back in a bit |
| 21:54.25 | brlcad | ah.. "it" is somehow supposed to be you |
| 21:54.35 | brlcad | and off is supposed to mean stop |
| 21:54.54 | brlcad | why didn't I think of that! |
| 21:55.35 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:56.27 | brlcad | minute-ssh: hmmm.. possible to add rotation to your backups? :) .. they're storing data at the rate of about 1GB/week =) |
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| 22:14.56 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/T26MgV27.html <-- are these tcl/tk8.5a specific? |
| 22:20.12 | IriX64 | just gonna dummy them out for now |
| 22:20.35 | brlcad | something related to it |
| 22:20.42 | IriX64 | thanks |
| 22:21.00 | brlcad | looks like you're using an 8.4 |
| 22:21.05 | IriX64 | yea |
| 22:21.44 | IriX64 | too lazy to type --with-tcl --with-tk ;) |
| 22:31.07 | IriX64 | i know you said /lgt/error.c using bu_bomb code was local, but if thats true why are they linking against libbu which *also has a bu_bomb function. |
| 22:32.25 | IriX64 | rtsrv same story |
| 22:33.29 | IriX64 | ahh i see ... i shouldn't have edited hosts and users in /conf ;) |
| 22:36.38 | IriX64 | remrt.c also has a \i |
| 22:37.12 | IriX64 | viewtherm.c too |
| 22:38.04 | IriX64 | gotta go, if i get this thing running ill let you know. |
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| 23:31.45 | IriX64 | well, it built error free, but at runtime itcl complains it needs tcl8.5 have 8.4 |
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| 01:56.28 | Lucifer | so, for those of us who are cad-illiterate, is brl-cad a functionally complete replacement for autocad for machines? |
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| 02:01.13 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/YDzIAj85.html <---- this didn't happen last time, dunno why this time |
| 02:02.17 | IriX64 | must be me, ah well |
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| 18:17.46 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/SoT44O89.html <--- not too familiar with cvs, what's this? |
| 18:19.21 | IriX64 | bearing in mind i'm starting from scratch |
| 18:24.24 | IriX64 | can't be too serious i got my checkout :) |
| 18:40.29 | IriX64 | yukonbob: i tried tcl/tk8.4 and it compiles, but at runtime i get a complaint of needing tcl8.5 :( |
| 18:41.40 | IriX64 | from itcl that is |
| 18:42.29 | IriX64 | he say: "so use tcl8.5" ;) |
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| 21:24.39 | yukonbob | IriX64: what generated the error; depending on that, I'd be curious to see your build... I've been using tcl/tk 8.4 and associated libs w/o problems for a while... |
| 21:25.05 | IriX64 | itcl said it needed 8.5 |
| 21:25.27 | yukonbob | from running mged, I take it? |
| 21:25.36 | IriX64 | yes |
| 21:25.43 | IriX64 | on 7.11.0 build |
| 21:28.43 | yukonbob | well, the itcl/itk binary libs might be (probably are) linked against what they hope are tcl/tk8.5, which is _not_ what you want... I'm running itcl/itk "current (20040920)" built against tcl/tk 8.4 w/o issues |
| 21:29.29 | IriX64 | I see ... i think you're right in that |
| 21:30.39 | IriX64 | if I ever get this thing running, I think I'll "freeze" the code tree :) |
| 21:31.58 | yukonbob | if you build or install itk/itcl the same way you put tcl/tk 8.4 on your system, instead of relying on the brl-cad distributed bits, you'll fare better... make sure you're using the already installed/properly working tcl/tk 8.4, and itcl/itk, w/o building from the brl-cad distributed source. the .tgz ships with _everything_ for completeness' sake, but you're not obligated to build from it -- in fact there are good reasons to _not_ build with it... |
| 21:32.29 | IriX64 | noted |
| 21:32.42 | yukonbob | did you use the notes/diffs I posted earlier for modifying the configure.ac, etc? |
| 21:33.10 | IriX64 | didn't take much fiddling, i'm pretty good at that schtuff |
| 21:34.32 | IriX64 | hehe stereo compiles, 7.8.4 vs 7.11.0 :) |
| 21:37.24 | yukonbob | IriX64: re: fiddling -- cool... you might want to compare notes in any event even if you do your own fiddling; the work I've done to date works, and might help you get a working compile too. Then we can compare methods/results once you're up/running... |
| 21:37.44 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/stereo.png |
| 21:37.55 | IriX64 | understood yukonbob, thanks |
| 21:49.13 | IriX64 | err murphy too |
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| 22:27.55 | ``Erik | um |
| 22:28.30 | ``Erik | if you build itcl from the brlcad repo and use a system installed tcl, if the system tcl is not the exact same version as the one in src/other/tcl (8.5a6), it will fail |
| 22:29.19 | ``Erik | the 'easy' way to fix it is to edit the init.tcl script in src/other/tcl/library and around ~20ish lines in, there'll be a "require" line with an "exact version" argument, change the 8.5a6 to your system tcl version |
| 22:30.08 | ``Erik | the 'real' way to fix it is to make all the itcl stuff, ampi stuff, etc know to use the systems init.tcl instead of the hardcoded path to the included init.tcl |
| 22:30.10 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:45.13 | IriX64 | he says calmly... pffft on that it should just "know" :) |
| 22:47.51 | IriX64 | i'm tempted to set DON'T_HAVE_CONFIG_H....act accordingly :) |
| 22:51.21 | IriX64 | mmmmm unlimber 9mm, fire at foot |
| 22:51.47 | yukonbob | ``Erik: or complete remove the "-exact Tcl [blahblah]", and just use "package require Tcl" and let it pick the best one available... |
| 22:54.03 | yukonbob | ...or use your systems (or orig. distribution of itcl/itk) and let them sort it out, and manage those things (tcl, tk, itcl, itk, tkimg, etc) seperately, instead of from w/i a big build like "brlcad, incl. tcl, tcl, tkimg, itk, itcl, libpng, liburt, jove, etc., etc.) |
| 22:57.09 | ``Erik | yeah *shrug* that file is straight from tcl |
| 22:58.15 | ``Erik | <-- favor of the "let the package maintainer deal with the dependancies" angle |
| 22:58.21 | ``Erik | in favor of, even |
| 22:58.23 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 22:58.48 | ``Erik | there are issues with that, though, with version requirements and shtuff |
| 23:09.40 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/TaNn2860.html <--- someone... this is a prob here, is it a prob elsewhere? |
| 23:16.01 | IriX64 | wtf is g-nmg, and why is it compiling here ;) |
| 23:19.04 | ``Erik | a G to NMG converter |
| 23:19.28 | IriX64 | urfff something else i'll prolly never use :) |
| 23:20.19 | IriX64 | heh photon mapping is a huge yes :) |
| 23:21.31 | IriX64 | i checked out today thankyou :) |
| 23:22.46 | louipc | IriX64: what file is that in? |
| 23:23.08 | IriX64 | read the description |
| 23:23.27 | louipc | ah |
| 23:26.38 | louipc | what's it setting it to? |
| 23:26.50 | IriX64 | its set to nothing ie "" |
| 23:27.24 | IriX64 | i manually set it to -L/usr/X11R6/lib, that works on *my system |
| 23:27.31 | louipc | you should investigate XLIBSW I think |
| 23:27.39 | louipc | tcl.m4: XLIBSW="-L$i -lX11" |
| 23:28.06 | IriX64 | louipc it has to be told *where to find X11 |
| 23:29.04 | louipc | aye you have a really odd system too eh? so ./configure might not find it |
| 23:29.20 | IriX64 | right thats why i said on *my system |
| 23:29.41 | louipc | is it just cygwin? |
| 23:29.53 | louipc | or is it a messed up cygwin? hehe |
| 23:29.57 | IriX64 | thats what i'm asking :) |
| 23:30.05 | louipc | I dunno I don't use it |
| 23:30.27 | louipc | you might want to submit a patch or something for it to work with cygwin |
| 23:30.56 | IriX64 | on the bright side i'm currently at rtserver, a point hitherto unreached before :) |
| 23:31.18 | louipc | cool |
| 23:31.40 | IriX64 | louipc: i don't do patches, build from scratch if neccessary ;) |
| 23:32.23 | IriX64 | afk |
| 23:32.30 | louipc | why not, your contribution could benefit other cygwin users if it's a standard cygwin setup |
| 23:33.26 | IriX64 | I have to agree with brlcad, i'm too edit-happy for such |
| 23:33.31 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:33.55 | louipc | looks like a few lines starting at 2411 in tcl.m4 would need adding to |
| 23:34.25 | louipc | (at line 2411) |
| 23:35.00 | louipc | heh I don't like to have to edit the same thing more than is necessary (eg. once) |
| 23:36.53 | louipc | and all your progress might end up for nothing if for example you decide to do something else for awhile and forget what exactly you need to do. :P |
| 23:37.36 | yukonbob | IriX64: louipc++ -- building patches is where it's at -- _especially_ if you don't like doing it -- since if it's accepted (or used as a basis for improvement) you may never need to do it again ;) |
| 23:38.13 | louipc | yeah and even if you have a weird ass system, just keep a patch for yourself |
| 23:38.24 | louipc | untar, patch, configure, make |
| 23:40.01 | yukonbob | might even help one figure out _why_ a system is weird, and allow to fix problem at root (ie: "unweird" your system ;) |
| 23:40.35 | louipc | lol |
| 23:42.15 | IriX64 | forget it i'm not about to build a cygwin firefox, they have a windoze version, use it :) |
| 23:43.19 | louipc | yeah no point |
| 23:43.33 | IriX64 | irssi however ;) |
| 23:45.09 | IriX64 | starting parallel compiles of 7.8.4 and 7.11.0 is an exercise in patience :) |
| 23:45.30 | IriX64 | but i wanted to see what the system could do |
| 23:46.54 | louipc | I remember building tcl/tk on mingw that was cool |
| 23:47.35 | IriX64 | yukonbob:insert diddler, tweak cpu clock to max, back out one quarter turn :) |
| 23:48.32 | yukonbob | louipc: are you running brl-cad on Windows natively? |
| 23:55.12 | IriX64 | ``Erik package_require blahblah, if i #package_require blahblah, will it fly? |
| 23:55.26 | louipc | yukonbob: no I haven't run windows for 4 yrs or so |
| 23:59.22 | yukonbob | IriX64: no |
| 23:59.39 | yukonbob | ...and it's "package require", not "package_require" |
| 23:59.52 | yukonbob | that's a tcl command to load external code. |
| 00:00.33 | yukonbob | "package require [somepkg]" will load "[somepkg]" (whatever you say) ie: package require Tk |
| 00:00.59 | yukonbob | (will load the Tk library (for Gui interface/development). |
| 00:01.30 | yukonbob | the "-exactversion [blah]" is a switch passed to "package require" that (surprise!) requires the exact version you specify. |
| 00:09.04 | yukonbob | IriX64: _I_ would try completely skipping that package require if I were you... what I wrote above applies to all other packages though -- reuqiring a specific version of Tcl (from w/i Tcl) looks like a special trick. |
| 00:10.13 | IriX64 | trying it |
| 00:29.11 | IriX64 | sigh break time , see you all later :) |
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| 02:43.14 | IriX64 | bwish just built, hallelia |
| 03:03.15 | IriX64 | both /lgt/error.c and /remrt/rtsrv.c are trying to duplicate bu_bomb() but they fail to rename them |
| 03:13.51 | IriX64 | terrain.exe, is that what you used on the stryker image on brlcad.org/screenshots :) |
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| 16:09.13 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Display.tcl Dm.tcl QuadDisplay.tcl RtControl.tcl): Activate the fbserv capability on Windows. |
| 16:16.12 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl LoadArcherLibs.tcl): Activate the fbserv capability on Windows. |
| 16:18.48 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/win/tkWinMenu.c: Add option to have double bar tearoffs on windows. |
| 16:24.45 | *** join/#brlcad Atosark (n=desire@blizzard.ppp.pro-lan.net) | |
| 16:25.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: Changed "#ifdef _WIN32" to "#if defined(_WIN32) && \!defined(__CYGWIN__)" |
| 16:27.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: Activate the fbserv capability on Windows. |
| 16:33.04 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: Mods to get the fbserv capability working on Windows. This required using Tcl_OpenTcpServer instead of pkg_permserver which beget other mods. |
| 16:39.42 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-wgl.c: Mods to accommodate the new hdc parameter to _wgl_open_existing(). |
| 16:47.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: Mods to get things working on Windows. |
| 16:52.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Mods to get things working on Windows. |
| 16:58.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: Mods to get the embedded fbserv working in the cadwidgets. |
| 17:00.26 | *** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=DanielFa@pool-71-111-79-184.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net) | |
| 17:03.05 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: Mods to get the fbserv capability working on Windows. This required using Tcl_OpenTcpServer instead of pkg_permserver which beget other mods. |
| 17:09.50 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: Mods to accommodate the signature change of fbs_open and fbs_close. |
| 17:13.41 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: Mods to get things working on Windows. |
| 17:16.58 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876562.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 17:26.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fbserv_obj.h: Added fbsl_chan member to struct fbserv_listener. Added fbsc_chan and fbsc_handler members to struct fbserv_client. |
| 17:43.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: Mods to accommodate the new hdc parameter to _wgl_open_existing(). |
| 17:45.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libfb/libfb.vcproj: Using fbserv_obj.c instead of fbserb_obj_win32.c |
| 17:47.50 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (25 files in 25 dirs): Minor updates. |
| 18:15.28 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 18:17.44 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/wqxZuC31.html <--- just did a cvs update, first time i've seen this one :) |
| 18:21.16 | IriX64 | bear in mind it could be my weird system, but i've not touched system stuff in the past three days |
| 18:26.39 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/itkstub/itkstub.vcproj: Update include dirs. |
| 18:33.54 | *** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 19:08.30 | IriX64 | I used this to configure ---> ./configure --enable-almost-everything CFLAGS="-msse3 -march=opteron -mtune=opteron -mhard-float -I/usr/X11R6/include" LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXit -lext -lXft" |
| 19:11.29 | IriX64 | forgot -lXi :) |
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| 20:47.53 | IriX64 | well pfffft, bwish links, but mged doesn't |
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| 01:11.21 | IriX64 | gentlemen... does configure ever fail to AC_SUBST(LDFLAGS) ? |
| 01:11.46 | IriX64 | ive got something weird going on in other/tk/unix |
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| 04:38.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): use the feature-specific HAVE_WINSOCK_H header define instead of platform-specific defines |
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| 06:07.03 | yukonbob | if anybody has a dual monitor setup (off single card, preferably, like a laptop w/ connected display and VGA out), would they mind testing mged on a specific xorg.conf for me? |
| 06:28.23 | poolio | yukonbob: I can later if you post it somewhere. I've got an Asus W3J that sometimes works that I can hook up to an external LCD. |
| 06:29.59 | yukonbob | poolio: cool -- I've got a new (to me) setup where I use two screens from w/i the X configuration (ie: not a shared screen, or Xinerama, etc), so I've got DISPLAY vars that are :0.0, and :0.1, but mged crashes in :0.1 (well, fails to start, with error) |
| 06:31.09 | yukonbob | I used to use a shared screen setup across two monitors, and that works np, but this one gives: |
| 06:31.12 | yukonbob | X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) Major opcode of failed request: 1 (X_CreateWindow) Serial number of failed request: 32 Current serial number in output stream: 35 |
| 06:31.34 | yukonbob | so it'd be nice to see if it's only me, or this type of setup... |
| 06:43.49 | poolio | yukonbob: Yes I used to get that error. No, I did not investigate, just used it on the first desktop. (It should work on the :0 display) |
| 06:44.16 | poolio | I'm going to sleep, I'll be around tomorrow if you'd like me to test with my config / your config. |
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| 14:04.34 | brlcad | yukonbob: hmmm, is that your compilation or ours? .. if it's yours, is it using X11 or GLX? if it's using GLX, can you recompile and try X11 (--without-opengl) |
| 14:29.24 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libpng needs zlib to link (on some platforms) |
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| 17:45.18 | ``Erik | blargh |
| 17:48.20 | yukonbob | brlcad: it's my compilation... |
| 17:57.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik upgraded the bundled incrtcl/tk from 3.3b1 to 3.3.0 |
| 18:21.10 | yukonbob | brlcad: do you mean "--with-ogl=no", or is there an unlisted flag --without-opengl... |
| 18:22.06 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.101.201) | |
| 18:24.17 | yukonbob | (though I don't think I've got ogl support in anyway...) |
| 18:28.01 | ``Erik | bob: there're a LOT of aliases ... :) |
| 18:29.25 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ahh --- well, I used both --without-opengl and --with-ogl=no this time, for good measure ;) |
| 18:30.04 | yukonbob | ``Erik: you running a dual monitor setup? |
| 18:44.23 | ``Erik | triple |
| 18:44.43 | ``Erik | two 23"'s wit big honkin' xterms, each running screen, and a 30" to the right with the web browser |
| 18:46.35 | yukonbob | http://pipefour.org/wmii/xorg.conf <-- basis for my new xorg.conf, which now fails. |
| 18:47.59 | ``Erik | hum, I haven't done xinerama in a long time, I sit at macs... |
| 18:49.07 | yukonbob | ah -- this isn't xinerama, but is X11. |
| 18:50.01 | yukonbob | brlcad: same issue w/ new build... |
| 18:50.33 | yukonbob | no problems on :0.0, no dice on :0.1 |
| 18:53.02 | ``Erik | A man thinks he'll be charitable and says to a homeless man, "Paint my porch out back, and I'll give you $100". Later in the day, the homeless guy knocks on the door and says, "I'm all done. By the way, it's a Mercedes." |
| 18:53.15 | ``Erik | I thought xinerama was the multi display engine under x11/xorg? |
| 18:53.27 | ``Erik | unless nvidia went and weirded it up (like they did with everything else, 'cept xaa) |
| 18:54.57 | yukonbob | xinerama is one way to do it, afaik, but there are other ways that aren't "Xinerama" (iiuc) |
| 18:55.27 | ``Erik | okie, it's been a while since I've looked at it :) |
| 18:56.01 | ``Erik | and it was on fbsd, which might have had a different set of widgets and knobs for doing it |
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| 21:54.18 | IriX64 | told you i have a strange system, all my libs end in .dll.a :) |
| 21:55.17 | IriX64 | tcl.m4 does not look for that extention |
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| 23:22.19 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 23:23.58 | yukonbob | ~lart slow days |
| 23:23.59 | ibot | throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at slow days |
| 23:24.11 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 00:56.02 | IriX64 | heheh change .a to .dll.a in tclm4 and it finds x now :) |
| 01:01.06 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/desktop.png |
| 01:01.10 | IriX64 | :) |
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| 02:43.59 | yukonbob | louipc: /me didn't know you were a Torontonian... |
| 02:44.44 | louipc | yukonbob: are you? |
| 02:45.09 | yukonbob | I was -- and just got back from two weeks in TO -- was in Roncesvales... |
| 02:47.46 | louipc | cool, where are you now? |
| 02:47.55 | yukonbob | Whitehorse, YT. |
| 02:48.01 | louipc | mofo! |
| 02:48.07 | louipc | what's up there? |
| 02:48.11 | yukonbob | snow? |
| 02:48.25 | louipc | what brings a person there other than caribou? |
| 02:48.41 | yukonbob | my gf is a cultural anthropology grad student, doing her research... |
| 02:49.04 | louipc | ah |
| 02:49.13 | yukonbob | where abouts in TO are you? |
| 02:49.32 | louipc | watch out for invading russians, I might go up and help some time |
| 02:49.45 | louipc | yukonbob: Mississauga, heheh |
| 02:50.35 | yukonbob | ah -- re: russians -- are you in military? |
| 02:51.23 | louipc | nope |
| 03:13.00 | ``Erik | damn canucks |
| 03:17.41 | louipc | ``Erik: too late |
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| 14:19.08 | ``Erik | *yawn*. |
| 17:25.20 | ``Erik | blargh |
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| 18:30.19 | ``Erik | heh, nice, EDOOFUS :) |
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| 18:32.00 | ``Erik | ./errno.h:#define EDOOFUS 88 /* Programming error */ |
| 18:32.12 | ``Erik | and people say the fbsd community isn't very friendly :D |
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| 18:52.30 | brlcad | http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2003-May/000791.html |
| 18:53.29 | brlcad | opportunity doesn't get much better than that! |
| 18:54.37 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I have just removed my e-mail |
| 18:54.55 | brlcad | ? |
| 18:55.02 | Z80-Boy | Cause I had to check the spams that got through the filter |
| 18:55.18 | Z80-Boy | And when I was absent for couple of days, my friend's e-mail server where it was hosted got overloade |
| 18:55.56 | Z80-Boy | wohoo, freedom! |
| 18:56.29 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: so I won't get any bugreport notifications regarding brl-cad |
| 18:56.38 | brlcad | ah, okay |
| 18:57.44 | Z80-Boy | Now I'll try to use IRC instead |
| 18:58.38 | brlcad | would be cool if cia could relay sf.net tracker changes |
| 18:59.58 | Z80-Boy | Once I had a folder with 70,000 spams taking 650MB |
| 19:00.08 | brlcad | wouldn't be too tricky to set up a hierarchical file-based tracker dump with a cron job that committed updates to svn |
| 19:00.31 | Z80-Boy | and the friend who hosted my e-mail already killed my IMAP connection several times when I was downloading a much smaller chunk of e-mails, just from 1 week of absence |
| 19:00.57 | Z80-Boy | I'll change the Ronja pages to say that people should ask for support on IRC |
| 19:02.57 | MinuteElectron | Gmail == No SPAM |
| 19:03.19 | Z80-Boy | I don't want to submit my private communication to Google |
| 19:03.27 | Z80-Boy | MinuteElectron: do they have a good spam filtering system? |
| 19:03.37 | MinuteElectron | hell yes |
| 19:04.07 | MinuteElectron | I have recieved about two pieces of spam on my gmail account ever, everything else goes to the spam bin which I check occasionally. |
| 19:04.23 | Z80-Boy | I don't want to need to check any spam bin |
| 19:04.43 | MinuteElectron | well, i've never had any real e-mail go to the spam bin |
| 19:04.50 | MinuteElectron | I'm just paranoid |
| 19:04.58 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I have created two new models after the arbn issue was fixed, which was preventing them from being finished correctly |
| 19:05.29 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/plazmatron_s0.png |
| 19:05.32 | ``Erik | no spam, and still 98% of legitimate message! |
| 19:05.33 | ``Erik | s |
| 19:06.07 | ``Erik | spamassassin with a little training is solid, and you can retain the spam folder to look for false positives |
| 19:06.18 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new_2.png |
| 19:06.28 | ``Erik | combined with mutts ability to sort by 'spamminess' (spam score)... :) |
| 19:07.03 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I had spamassassin, but the Perl segfaulted in some database library |
| 19:07.57 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I can even post you .avi links if you want to see it as a rotating video |
| 19:08.32 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: now it seems that the arbn has no problem with unnormalized vectors anymore - I intentionally kept unnormalized vectors there, so that possible problems with brl-cad would be discovered |
| 19:09.02 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: There is also an aspect called "Information overload" and "Information explosion", see Wikipedia on these terms |
| 19:09.41 | ``Erik | erm, why would I need to look at wikipedia for those? O.o |
| 19:09.55 | Z80-Boy | hehe |
| 19:10.03 | ``Erik | and, erm, the comment about mutts spam score sorting is to alleviate that issue... :D |
| 19:10.56 | Z80-Boy | Then the SMTP system got screwed by artificial, non-functional hurdles attempting to stop spammers |
| 19:11.22 | Z80-Boy | like sender verify, banning open relays and blacklisting dynamic IP addresses |
| 19:11.25 | ``Erik | heh, and I use my own mua for reading e-mail, to further reduce cognative load (breaks each mailing list into a seperate "mail box", etc) |
| 19:11.38 | Z80-Boy | From these three, every single one annoyed me when I tried to set up my legitimate e-mail system. |
| 19:12.08 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: did you write it yourself? |
| 19:12.12 | ``Erik | the mua? yeah |
| 19:12.16 | Z80-Boy | In C? |
| 19:12.23 | ``Erik | yup |
| 19:12.50 | ``Erik | was also exploring some ideas at the time... it's got some neat ideas, but I'm not really proud of the execution *shrug* |
| 19:15.53 | Z80-Boy | I replaced spamassassin by bogofilter which is much faster and hasn't segfaulted, but it allows more spam through and still needs to be feeded like some kind of Tamagochi |
| 19:16.49 | ``Erik | add in that it can be trained to futher improve the result, ... *shrug* I'm happy for now |
| 19:17.10 | ``Erik | though paul graham has an article about simplified spam detection |
| 19:17.49 | ``Erik | 'cept I'd want to push that idea further, and have automatic mailbox selection, and an mua where if you drag a mail from one folder to another, it 'learns' that in place |
| 19:18.19 | ``Erik | of course, those were issues when I was on 30+ mailing lists, many fairly high traffic :D I don't do that anymore |
| 19:21.25 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:21.34 | Z80-Boy | and especially openbsd misc has low S/N ration |
| 19:21.41 | Z80-Boy | It's all "you're an idiot |
| 19:21.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:21.49 | Z80-Boy | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:21.53 | ``Erik | so they're moderated and only theo posts? |
| 19:21.53 | ``Erik | ;D |
| 19:22.03 | Z80-Boy | ;-) |
| 19:22.13 | ``Erik | the fbsd ones were usually pretty civil |
| 19:22.19 | Z80-Boy | Once they told me I am a troll and I just politely asked about some technical issues |
| 19:22.27 | ``Erik | unlike the irc channels *cough* :D |
| 19:24.37 | Z80-Boy | irch channels of the #OS.country type are surprisingly hostile |
| 19:24.50 | ``Erik | established ones are |
| 19:24.58 | ``Erik | very new os's seem very friendly *shrug* |
| 19:25.41 | ``Erik | they're kinda still in the "holy shit, people are looking at this???" phase |
| 19:51.05 | brlcad | mm. sun fire x4500 are even cheaper with massive diskage |
| 19:52.05 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: those are really nice |
| 19:52.17 | brlcad | really close to machining quality |
| 20:01.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 20:01.31 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Mr. Anderson fixed various non-normalized vector bugs with the ARBN primitive |
| 20:01.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: that was causing all sorts of problems with rotations, shading, mirroring, and |
| 20:01.35 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: more. the primitive was assuming the vectors were normalized, thus causing the |
| 20:01.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: problems. Johns fixes take care of sf bugs 1800148 and 1800161 reported by |
| 20:01.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: clock3/karel that specifically reported the mirroring and shading problems. |
| 20:15.22 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: thanks |
| 20:27.46 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-110-242.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:28.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: We don't need to check for Windows in this file ;-). |
| 20:38.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: Fixed call to strncpy so as not to overwrite buf. |
| 20:42.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: Check fbsl_fd before closing. |
| 20:44.41 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclInt.h: Looks like Sean's earlier fix got lost. Putting it back. |
| 20:44.56 | ``Erik | hehehe as I'm about to clobber that file :D |
| 20:47.00 | ``Erik | oh, just a config.h dealie |
| 20:48.17 | ``Erik | er |
| 20:48.30 | ``Erik | s/why we/if we should/ |
| 20:52.55 | brlcad | now that it's working for tcl/tk, yeah I'd think so |
| 20:53.11 | brlcad | the less to tweak/maintain in other, the better |
| 20:53.31 | ``Erik | assuming people can stomach the configure time :) |
| 20:53.57 | brlcad | our default cacheing is at least enabled by default :) |
| 20:54.21 | brlcad | we could recover that time by doing better caching of our own compilation tests |
| 20:54.38 | brlcad | breaking out each functionality test into an m4 with cache support would be good |
| 20:55.05 | ``Erik | there's still a fair bit that wouldn't be covered by caching, I think... the same grunt from a 'trivial' autoconf project, plus all those cache checks |
| 20:55.12 | brlcad | either way, I dont' care if they think it's long :) |
| 20:55.47 | brlcad | the time is recovered by not maintaining their build |
| 20:55.57 | brlcad | the bigger question is whether their autocruft is up to snuff |
| 20:56.20 | brlcad | tcl's is *barely* usable now .. |
| 20:56.56 | brlcad | wasn't pre 8.4.6 or therebouts |
| 21:01.54 | ``Erik | blehhhhhhhhhh, change to configure.ac |
| 21:01.59 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 21:19.40 | *** part/#brlcad bobbmt (n=graceind@static-71-240-124-130.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) | |
| 21:35.58 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/ (698 files in 28 dirs): tcl 8.5a6->8.5b1 |
| 21:39.22 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (716 files in 20 dirs): tk 8.5a6->8.5b1 |
| 21:41.51 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/ (17 files): update a good bit out of itcl development version, to cope with changes in tcl85b1 |
| 21:43.34 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/ (12 files in 2 dirs): update a good bit out of itk development version, to keep in sync with itcl |
| 21:44.15 | *** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) | |
| 21:44.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: note that we use (and search for) itcl/itk 3.4 |
| 22:17.46 | ``Erik | hum, mged seems to behave, rt works fine, ... O.o |
| 22:18.17 | ``Erik | AAH, I'm blind#!~ |
| 22:19.35 | ``Erik | archer seems to come up, not sure what I'm looking at, though |
| 22:20.06 | brlcad | if you run into funky cursors with remote-to-mac, that's a X11 bug on OS X afaik |
| 22:20.17 | ``Erik | no, cursers looked all good |
| 22:20.27 | ``Erik | I'm running it on a fbsd opteron |
| 22:20.28 | brlcad | yeah, I got archer all working a couple months ago -- turn on "advanced" mode for a lil more familiarity |
| 22:21.09 | ``Erik | well, it's dark in my office, my screens are all black... I ran it, and all three instantly turned white |
| 22:21.12 | ``Erik | I'm done with that program. |
| 22:22.53 | ``Erik | and a leenewx |
| 22:23.58 | ``Erik | ya know, 85b1 has some dtrace stuff in it O.o |
| 22:31.01 | ``Erik | huh |
| 22:31.12 | ``Erik | the cursor issue showed up from linux, not bsd... |
| 22:31.46 | brlcad | it's a byte ordering issue, depends on endian |
| 22:31.57 | ``Erik | same arch |
| 22:32.06 | brlcad | then it's a tcl issue |
| 22:32.17 | ``Erik | both using internally build tcl 85b1 |
| 22:32.20 | brlcad | the issue I'm thinking of is a byte order endian problem |
| 22:32.52 | brlcad | and mac x11 specific) |
| 22:33.21 | ``Erik | um, same source tree, same arch, both displaying to the same mac x86 workstation |
| 22:35.33 | ``Erik | um, the last of the linux opterons in /usr/tmp/brlcad vs the opteron fbsd in /usr/tmp/<myusername>/brlcadbuild |
| 22:35.38 | ``Erik | if you want to compare and contrast |
| 22:35.52 | ``Erik | the 'massive icon with a fuzzy yellow look'? |
| 22:37.28 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:37.48 | brlcad | maybe still the same issue, but related to 64-bit client to 32-bit server |
| 22:38.12 | brlcad | mac is 32-bit even on the new boxen |
| 22:38.51 | brlcad | which is causing me grief at the moment for making one universal mac build .. |
| 22:39.18 | ``Erik | mged: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 22:39.19 | ``Erik | bin/mged: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped |
| 22:39.58 | ``Erik | oh, and my bad, on the fbsd, it's not /usr/tmp/blah/brlcadbuild, it's /usr/brlcad/HEAD |
| 22:40.00 | brlcad | yup |
| 22:40.32 | ``Erik | ok |
| 22:40.48 | ``Erik | just a datapoint, bsd does not exhibit the issue, linux does... for me |
| 22:41.27 | brlcad | yeah, makes sense |
| 22:41.43 | brlcad | linux x11 client sends the cursor back as an image instead of a bitmap iirc |
| 22:41.58 | brlcad | there was a mac hint write-up on this somewhere |
| 22:42.01 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention version bumps on contrib stuff |
| 22:42.19 | ``Erik | hum, I thought both did what Xorg or X11R6 told 'em to, fbsd doesn't twiddle bits like openbsd does |
| 22:42.25 | brlcad | http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060316124704289 |
| 22:42.41 | ``Erik | unless redhat is getting their fingers where they don't belong (yet again) |
| 22:43.03 | ``Erik | oohhh, 'blue facet', huh |
| 22:43.26 | brlcad | either way, the 'bug' is in the X11 apple's using or in something tcl 8.5's doing since that's when it starts |
| 22:44.45 | ``Erik | hum, the 'dedication' pic comes up fine |
| 22:45.09 | ``Erik | as do the logos on the archer splash screen, from both boxen |
| 22:45.14 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 22:45.27 | ``Erik | something for another day :D |
| 22:45.37 | ``Erik | <-- starts packing up to go grocery shopping |
| 22:46.55 | brlcad | yeah, given the dates of that report, I'm betting tcl 8.5 has the same bug where it's packing its own cursor for some widgets |
| 23:59.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl src/librt/wdb_obj.c NEWS): |
| 23:59.02 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: the mged 'tol' command now accepts multiple tolerance arguments so that users |
| 23:59.04 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: can set multiple tolerances with just one command invocation. this change makes |
| 23:59.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: the tol command interatively accept pairs of tolerance types with the |
| 23:59.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: corresponding value. |
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| 02:15.18 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/desktop2.png |
| 02:23.28 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/brlcad.gif |
| 02:25.59 | louipc | oh I'll show one too |
| 02:27.40 | louipc | http://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.png |
| 02:37.38 | IriX64 | what is that :) |
| 02:37.56 | louipc | screenshot |
| 02:38.05 | IriX64 | i mean what system |
| 02:38.36 | louipc | archlinux, openbox, irssi, firefox |
| 02:39.42 | IriX64 | beautifull |
| 02:40.20 | louipc | conky at the top right |
| 02:42.58 | IriX64 | sigh.. thanks for the eye candy, i gotta run. |
| 02:43.16 | louipc | I thought my desktop looked crappy |
| 02:43.29 | louipc | well until you take away the windows the wallpaper is nice |
| 03:30.14 | bpoole | yukonbob: is that ion3? |
| 03:32.12 | yukonbob | bpoole: no -- a pair of dwm (x2) |
| 03:32.34 | yukonbob | err... pair | (x2), pick one ;) |
| 03:33.23 | yukonbob | bpoole: though I was running ion3 up till other day, and may well go back -- just a bit of testing... |
| 03:35.23 | yukonbob | bpoole: re: x2 -- that was only 1 of two displays you saw, so I guess it was really just "dwm"... I've got a dwm on ea. display atm, though |
| 03:36.22 | louipc | I heard ion will go closed source |
| 03:37.58 | yukonbob | there was some issue w/ the license because of ppl modifying it too much and still calling it "ion"... not sure how far it'll go, though. Certainly if it gets too restrictive people will just move on -- as cool as it is, it's only a window manager and there are lots to pick from... |
| 03:44.42 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:46.09 | ``Erik | speaking of, when the hell did enlightenment go from being a resource heavy cpu and memory gobbling monster to a 'highly efficient and light' wm? |
| 03:55.47 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 04:19.43 | brlcad | yukonbob: hehe |
| 04:21.49 | yukonbob | brlcad: should topic be 7.10.4 has arrived? |
| 04:25.51 | brlcad | not quite yet |
| 04:26.03 | brlcad | there are still a couple binaries I'm trying to sort out |
| 04:26.17 | brlcad | then several announcements that have to go out |
| 04:26.21 | brlcad | then it'll be done :) |
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| 13:32.08 | *** part/#brlcad bobbmt (n=graceind@static-71-240-124-130.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) | |
| 14:05.19 | ``Erik | blargh |
| 14:49.59 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-030-155.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 15:26.51 | *** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 15:44.24 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review the root solver |
| 15:54.13 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) | |
| 15:54.16 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:54.55 | brlcad | ahh, jra is lunchmongering too already :) |
| 15:55.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:55.03 | ``Erik | oh, uh |
| 15:55.35 | ``Erik | bad brlcad, bad... not documenting the change of rt_version to being a function |
| 15:56.07 | ``Erik | ed passed that "issue" to me, so'z I had to walk geoff through the "fix"... "add parenthesis at the end of it?) |
| 15:56.08 | ``Erik | " |
| 15:56.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:56.36 | brlcad | that was private data |
| 15:56.47 | ``Erik | they were using it *shrug* |
| 15:57.33 | ``Erik | dan claimed it was a bug they missed during testing (this is like 4th hand now, so grab your salt lick) |
| 15:58.19 | brlcad | how in the world they "missed" somethign that should have been an outright compilation error... |
| 15:59.26 | ``Erik | heh, it was static? |
| 16:01.47 | ``Erik | (and, uh, I really wouldn't be surprised at that group outright missing compiler errors) O:-) |
| 16:02.30 | ``Erik | erm, it was exported in 7.8.0 in raytrace.h |
| 16:02.33 | ``Erik | RT_EXPORT extern const char rt_version[]; |
| 16:04.10 | ``Erik | (is the linux stuff really necessary on that box?) |
| 16:05.46 | brlcad | hmm, I think that was just to get the windows build to work |
| 16:06.02 | brlcad | i remember when they were working on the version hooks, they could probably totally change it now |
| 16:06.13 | brlcad | using either the func or the other version hooks that there are now |
| 16:06.44 | brlcad | linux stuff? |
| 16:07.20 | ``Erik | enable_linux="YES", linux_base_fc4, ... |
| 16:08.06 | brlcad | ooh |
| 16:08.19 | brlcad | no, it's not |
| 16:08.30 | brlcad | that's part of the /etc config migration work |
| 16:08.48 | brlcad | there's a ton of little details like that needing to be beaten into submission |
| 16:10.56 | ``Erik | <-- just building ports that look necessary (or desired), once data migration starts and problems crop up, can add unforseen ports |
| 16:11.10 | ``Erik | obviously, vim had to go on. :D |
| 16:11.58 | yukonbob | ``Erik: [x]emacs w/ viper mode :) |
| 16:12.33 | ``Erik | vim+cscope+ruby plus my hackish .vimrc :D |
| 16:13.34 | brlcad | yeah, doesn't make sense to migrate the apps, they should be readded through ports |
| 16:13.42 | brlcad | as needed |
| 16:14.05 | ``Erik | they'd probably break through abi and lib name changes anyways |
| 16:14.08 | brlcad | still will be a done of junk when it's all done.. there are probably 30 ports related to the web services |
| 16:14.25 | brlcad | (not counting apache and friends) |
| 16:14.34 | ``Erik | apache22 and php5 are on my list |
| 16:14.54 | ``Erik | beyond that, I don't use the web stuff there, so'z I dunno... mediawiki, I'd imagine... |
| 16:15.07 | ``Erik | which LOOKS like what sf uses O.o |
| 16:16.14 | brlcad | things like various perl modules, gd image processing, some filters, a few mod_*'s |
| 16:16.44 | ``Erik | how many are actually USED, though? |
| 16:16.53 | brlcad | pretty much all of them |
| 16:16.56 | ``Erik | and use pkg_cutleaves -l, not pkg_info or ls /var/db/pkg :) |
| 16:17.00 | brlcad | otherwise I wouldn't mention :) |
| 16:17.58 | ``Erik | <-- has deeply instilled attitudes about keeping servers as minimal and task specific as reasonable, though has no problem throwing on things like vim, bash, a scheme and/or lithp environment, ruby, ... :D |
| 16:18.23 | brlcad | likewise |
| 16:18.32 | brlcad | just in this case, minimal is a lot of stuff is all i'm saying |
| 16:18.38 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 16:19.23 | ``Erik | but if ya draw the ports graph, and draw a curvey line through dividing necessary and unnecessary, some leaves will be in and some will be out |
| 16:19.32 | ``Erik | I don't know which ones go where for the web stuff |
| 16:19.55 | ``Erik | and I'll imagine some web leaves will be on the unnecessary side *shrug* |
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| 18:19.34 | brlcad | hrm.. 7.10 is about 10% faster than 7.8 on some cursory testing.. |
| 18:27.30 | ``Erik | swank |
| 18:32.50 | brlcad | holy crapoli |
| 18:32.58 | brlcad | logins now work! |
| 18:33.19 | brlcad | and I didn't change a damn thing .. did you change anything? |
| 18:33.49 | brlcad | i'm guessing some db finally got updated via atrun or cron that let it recognize them as valid users |
| 18:34.38 | brlcad | (something other than pwd_mkdb) |
| 18:34.57 | brlcad | ooooh, you know what .. I bet I know what "fixed" it ... |
| 18:37.27 | ``Erik | um |
| 18:37.37 | ``Erik | I did a couple mergemasters |
| 18:37.44 | ``Erik | which do lots of scary shit in the etc dir |
| 18:38.09 | ``Erik | what's your surspicion? |
| 18:44.29 | *** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX38.andrew.cmu.edu) | |
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| 19:29.54 | ``Erik | drupal5 and mediawiki are installed |
| 19:31.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/timer-nt.c: time() requires a time_t |
| 20:29.40 | brlcad | don't worry about the web services, that all totally changes once apache comes over |
| 20:30.30 | brlcad | some of the sites hosted require specific versions in order for various modules to work, others will have to have their db's upgraded at the same time |
| 20:31.08 | brlcad | ``Erik: suspicion is /etc/shells |
| 20:31.20 | brlcad | all of the accounts that were tested were undoubtedly set to /usr/local/bin/bash |
| 20:31.35 | brlcad | so ssh was getting some "rejection" based on the shell, which it just turned into "invalid user" |
| 20:31.42 | brlcad | even though the password was correct |
| 20:32.33 | brlcad | pretty awesomeness, all users now migrated seamless |
| 20:32.42 | brlcad | few more shells to add |
| 21:15.50 | ``Erik | ahhhhh |
| 21:16.01 | ``Erik | ok, I added bash before mergemaster |
| 21:16.04 | ``Erik | coo' |
| 21:16.18 | ``Erik | mebbe I should write myself down for having fixed that issue :D *duck* |
| 21:18.02 | brlcad | sure |
| 21:18.56 | ``Erik | (not like there's any glory on that list, other than getting the dman machine working) |
| 21:19.20 | brlcad | yep :) |
| 21:19.26 | brlcad | the file gets deleted when it's all done |
| 21:19.40 | brlcad | just a shared notepad and mental reminder list of what's left |
| 21:20.58 | ``Erik | and just hope no one uses an editor that doesn't look to make sure it hasn't changed before writing :) |
| 21:27.14 | ``Erik | hum, screen, sudo, brlcad, ... |
| 21:28.39 | ``Erik | mysql and apache are installed |
| 21:28.51 | ``Erik | looks like most of what's left is copying data |
| 21:29.22 | minute | Crap |
| 21:29.23 | minute | sorry |
| 21:30.29 | minute | 2.5GB shit |
| 21:30.59 | minute | rm -rf :) |
| 21:32.29 | ``Erik | ... you.... pooped? on brlcad's machine? O.o |
| 21:33.09 | minute | lol |
| 21:33.21 | minute | I guess you could say that :P |
| 21:35.35 | minute | Fixed now anyway. |
| 21:35.42 | minute | Won't let it happen again. |
| 21:54.56 | minute | ;P |
| 21:55.11 | ``Erik | puts me at 1.7m consumption |
| 21:59.27 | minute | hehe |
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| 22:42.48 | brlcad | ahh, was wondering when minute would notice |
| 22:43.22 | brlcad | he had daily backups going to his home, adding about 150MB/day |
| 22:56.17 | ``Erik | later, kids, headin' home :D |
| 23:36.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: update the adrt comment, it actually builds fairly cleanly not IF you have the dependencies installed, but still don't force-enable since they are unmanaged external |
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| 00:13.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 00:13.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: don't just check whether the option is set to the default -- check if it's been |
| 00:13.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: set at all so that you can use --enable-all with --disable options that may be |
| 00:13.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: default 'no' already. ran into this situation trying to disable opennurbs |
| 00:13.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: (which was already default off). |
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| 00:17.24 | IriX64 | louipc, got anymore screenshots? i really liked that last one. |
| 00:20.33 | Supaplex | is it your archnemesis? |
| 00:20.51 | IriX64 | mayhap a dream :) |
| 00:21.17 | IriX64 | a freaking system that works :) |
| 00:22.25 | Supaplex | I hear paper and pencil are pretty reliable |
| 00:22.55 | IriX64 | a system where libraries aren't called *.dll.a :( |
| 00:23.58 | ``Erik | <-- pretty happy with the mac/fbsd combo, thinks brlcad is more or less in the same groove |
| 00:24.25 | IriX64 | mmmm leopard beckons me if i switch |
| 00:26.25 | IriX64 | man you guys are adamant about copying being untouchable aren't you |
| 00:27.02 | ``Erik | ? |
| 00:27.27 | IriX64 | autogen tries to copy COPYING and it gets permission denied |
| 00:27.38 | ``Erik | it tries to copy OVER COPYING |
| 00:27.40 | ``Erik | which'd be BAD |
| 00:27.45 | IriX64 | ah |
| 00:37.41 | IriX64 | i should read that someday, but why i don't plan to give anyone a copy |
| 00:42.29 | yukonbob | *BSD++ |
| 00:54.39 | louipc | IriX64: http://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.jpg that's how I usually work. confusing huh? I should probably get a 1px border around the windows |
| 00:56.53 | Supaplex | wahou, I'm immortalized in a screenshot :D |
| 00:57.45 | louipc | I usually don't keep them around for -too- long :P |
| 00:58.09 | Supaplex | :) |
| 00:59.02 | louipc | IriX64: yeah man you should try linux or bsd or something, get a cheap computer second hand or something if you don't want to mess with your main machine |
| 00:59.57 | IriX64 | nice shot |
| 01:00.08 | IriX64 | maybe ill switch |
| 01:00.34 | louipc | it took me a long time to completely switch |
| 01:00.50 | IriX64 | and now you're happy? |
| 01:00.50 | louipc | maybe 3 yrs trying out various distros |
| 01:00.58 | louipc | yeah now I'm totally good |
| 01:01.15 | IriX64 | ill give it serious thought |
| 01:09.20 | IriX64 | mmmm when i engage serious mode nothing happens ;) |
| 01:14.46 | ``Erik | thinking hard *grunt* |
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| 01:35.25 | IriX64 | ``Erik, mines more like *blank* :) |
| 01:35.48 | IriX64 | hate firing blanks :) |
| 01:36.16 | louipc | better than drawing one |
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| 01:45.59 | IriX64 | tried but my pencil can't handle that :D |
| 01:48.44 | IriX64 | what are you doing looking between my legs :) |
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| 04:13.40 | brlcad | yeesh |
| 04:16.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 7 dirs): minor tweaks, preventive null terminating of strncmp'd strings |
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| 04:42.36 | louipc | yeah what's up with freenode |
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| 04:56.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): the 'wall' procedural geometry generator tool was renamed to 'masonry' so as to not conflict with the commonly named 'wall' linux tool that writes a message to all users. source renamed from wall.c to masonry.c |
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| 05:11.45 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 2 dirs): rename the 'hd' hexdump utility to 'hex' as well given the similar linux facilities and cause for conflict/confusion. source renamed from hd.c to hex.c (and manpage in kind) |
| 05:11.46 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: renamed wall and hd commands, someone(tm) should review what else other than our libs that might be common conflict cases where we don't have a justifiable basis/need to keep the name |
| 05:11.46 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
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| 05:36.11 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (2 files in 2 dirs): obliterate BRL.MIL references |
| 05:42.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (sh/cray.sh src/fb/cell-fb.1 src/lgt/lgt.1 src/libfb/libfb.3): more brl.mil references begone |
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| 05:55.27 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (5 files in 4 dirs): more address updating to avoid mil domain |
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| 14:28.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: don't choke here if openNURBS is disabled! |
| 14:35.02 | ``Erik | silly coder, "linebuffer[YYLMAX} = '\0';" just don't make sense :D |
| 14:40.54 | brlcad | oop |
| 14:41.30 | ``Erik | must be a little burdened at the moment |
| 14:42.04 | brlcad | it's been having issues for over a day now |
| 14:42.15 | brlcad | depends which slot we get |
| 14:48.47 | ``Erik | ya in today? dave was in my office at 9 trying to organize a lunch posse |
| 14:49.03 | ``Erik | he was a bit miffed that we didn't take him yesterday, heh |
| 14:50.29 | ``Erik | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-bird-cat-cage.jpg |
| 14:52.42 | brlcad | yeah, i'm in |
| 14:56.05 | ``Erik | in the office, or in for lunch? :) |
| 14:56.52 | brlcad | yep |
| 14:57.18 | ``Erik | heh, I'm not a c++ programmer, I don't dig unresolvable ambiguity :D |
| 15:00.04 | ``Erik | hum, cool, segfaults in mged |
| 15:04.50 | brlcad | I was able to replicate the rt crash with a simple while loop on moss, on my laptop last night |
| 15:05.03 | ``Erik | get a good -ggdb core file? |
| 15:05.19 | brlcad | while [ $? -ne 0 ] ; do rt -F/dev/null db/moss.g all.g ; done |
| 15:05.35 | brlcad | not really, same stack trace I always get |
| 15:05.44 | ``Erik | erm |
| 15:05.52 | brlcad | I mean, I have the trace, it's just not really insightful |
| 15:05.59 | ``Erik | while true ; do rt ... |
| 15:06.00 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:06.28 | ``Erik | but it was a -ggdb build, so you have all the arguments at every frame and can inspect them? or was the stack blown? |
| 15:07.15 | brlcad | while true != while [ $? -ne 0 ] |
| 15:08.00 | brlcad | stops as soon as it crashes |
| 15:08.22 | ``Erik | o |
| 15:08.35 | ``Erik | while true ; do ./rt ... || break; done :D |
| 15:08.53 | ``Erik | that's kinda my normal form *shrug* |
| 15:09.12 | ``Erik | of course, I build the command funny, I'm a vim user... so -o vi |
| 15:09.41 | brlcad | which is of course no different :P |
| 15:09.48 | brlcad | other than 11 chars vs 12 chars |
| 15:10.06 | ``Erik | of course, more than 10 ways to skin a cat |
| 15:10.54 | ``Erik | but I'd probably write the one time rt cmd, run it to make sure it does what I expect, then put the while true loop on it... then hop to the end and go "oh yeah, gotta break those" and put in the || break |
| 15:11.09 | ``Erik | rabid kbd monkey powers, ACTIVATE! |
| 15:11.42 | ``Erik | <-- ain't sayin' one is right or wrong, just noting his usual approach is different due to different ways of building "complex" commands :D |
| 15:11.51 | ``Erik | I'm "special" O.o |
| 15:12.07 | ``Erik | I'm also becoming a bit annoyed at all these mged crashes |
| 15:13.03 | brlcad | fix em! |
| 15:13.33 | brlcad | it's actually debuggable if you run with -f .. |
| 15:15.21 | ``Erik | and with -c, which is what I'm ding |
| 15:15.23 | ``Erik | doing |
| 15:16.01 | ``Erik | less mouse action with -c :D |
| 15:32.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:33.30 | ``Erik | that's a old but |
| 15:33.31 | ``Erik | bug |
| 15:33.45 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: add a break; to the -p option (been missing since the original import from GSI, wow) |
| 15:38.10 | *** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 15:43.22 | brlcad | minute: I see you noticed the rate that your backups were growing :) |
| 15:43.36 | minute | yeah |
| 15:44.05 | minute | I realised they were pretty pointless since there are other systems in place. So instead I will just run one before everytime I modify the code. |
| 15:44.38 | brlcad | could add rotation so they don't accumulate, just keep the last few |
| 15:45.27 | minute | Possibly, I am working on a MySql\MediaWiki XML\Files backup system for a different project so once finished with that I will see about using it here or something maybe. |
| 15:46.49 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: dynamically calculate the size that the DMG needs to be (since the 7.10.4 release already surpassed the 250MB barrier) .. and give me at least a minute to find that background image :) |
| 15:46.57 | brlcad | mmm.. I've always wanted to dump out mediawiki content as doxbook xml so it could be stored in CVS |
| 15:47.06 | brlcad | and bidirectionally edited |
| 15:47.42 | minute | I know MediaWiki can be dumped as XML, but I don't suppose it would be doxbook compatible. |
| 15:48.02 | brlcad | could be ... :) |
| 15:48.38 | minute | I'll look into it if you like. |
| 15:48.43 | minute | TBH it wouldn't be too much difficulty to write a simple parser since it is going to be similar. |
| 15:48.48 | brlcad | that'd be awesome |
| 15:48.54 | brlcad | yeah, the format is really pretty simple |
| 15:49.19 | brlcad | there's not really any aspect of mediawiki markup that I can think of that doesn't directly translate to docbook |
| 15:49.29 | minute | Cool, I'll have a look and see if I can find a way. |
| 15:49.57 | brlcad | I know these guys worked out some of the reverse path already for blender |
| 15:49.57 | brlcad | http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta/DocBook_to_Wiki |
| 15:50.32 | brlcad | ooh, haven't seen this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DocBook_XML_export |
| 15:51.09 | minute | "Note: this is a proposal page opened some years ago. No such feature exists in MediaWiki presently." |
| 15:51.33 | brlcad | yeah, though it's pretty much exactly what I'm referring to :) |
| 15:51.43 | minute | ahh |
| 15:52.07 | minute | Which DocBook version are you using? |
| 15:52.10 | brlcad | that coupled with the docbook-to-mediawiki and you'd have an exceptionally powerful round-trip system |
| 15:53.13 | brlcad | i used 4.5 for years as it was the latest stable, but 5.0 is pretty much "done" and usable now |
| 15:53.17 | brlcad | with some better features |
| 15:53.24 | brlcad | xml version, not the sgml version |
| 15:53.37 | minute | yeah, sgml is weird |
| 15:54.53 | minute | How is LDAP going, btw? |
| 15:55.01 | brlcad | wow, the make_pkg and make_dmg scripts I wrote over a year ago still work pretty much without a hitch |
| 15:55.13 | minute | hehe |
| 15:56.00 | brlcad | it's not gone anywhere since we went into release mode a week and a half ago .. I've been busy building and posting binaries, writing announcements |
| 15:56.17 | brlcad | still not done, but the release has to go out |
| 15:56.39 | brlcad | ldap is still next on my list though |
| 15:56.54 | minute | ahh, ok |
| 15:56.59 | brlcad | it really is the only thing remaining now other than testing the site on IE6 wo/ javascript |
| 15:57.15 | minute | I'll do that now. |
| 15:57.51 | minute | Ok, it is bad. |
| 15:58.16 | brlcad | yeah, I just kicked it off here.. wow |
| 15:58.35 | brlcad | i must have added some bad css or something |
| 15:59.11 | minute | mm |
| 15:59.18 | minute | Or IE is just crap ;) |
| 15:59.21 | minute | Anyway... |
| 15:59.30 | minute | I'll run it through some validators then take a look at the code. |
| 16:01.13 | PrezKennedy | IE is the best! |
| 16:03.42 | PrezKennedy | its like ive gone to the dark side or something |
| 16:04.44 | brlcad | minute: here's what I see presently: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/ie6.jpg |
| 16:05.01 | minute | Same here |
| 16:06.20 | brlcad | notably, no header images (which actually isn't that bad.. :), and some of the bottom bezel on the boxes are bad (oddly only some), the two incorrectly expanded menu/search sections, the missing upper search bar, and the massive fonts (which I cold probably live with) |
| 16:08.11 | brlcad | weird.. it even got the correct hilight/shadow outline on the bottom search bezel and on the upper menu, but not on the other two... |
| 16:08.40 | brlcad | interesting because the two that are right, I did "by hand", the other two weren't |
| 16:09.16 | brlcad | mm.. 400MB mac universal binary installer.. |
| 16:09.20 | brlcad | biggest yet |
| 16:10.29 | ``Erik | um, since media wiki stores in a mysql database, you could just mysqldump and put the results into RCS or CVS O.o |
| 16:10.40 | minute | why? |
| 16:10.54 | minute | What would be the point in that :S |
| 16:11.02 | ``Erik | um, small footprint backups? |
| 16:11.06 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:11.16 | minute | Ahh, ok. |
| 16:11.16 | ``Erik | that can be edited and loaded, if necessary |
| 16:11.28 | brlcad | i don't want backups, I want complete bidirectional editing |
| 16:11.29 | ``Erik | sorry, talking while catching up, and people keep walking in and asking questions |
| 16:11.35 | ``Erik | dump, edit, load |
| 16:11.35 | ``Erik | :D |
| 16:11.52 | minute | ``Erik: The trouble is passwords, email address, etc. |
| 16:11.57 | brlcad | so I can edit **in a sensible format** with a text editor, or in mediawiki |
| 16:12.19 | ``Erik | use a text editor that can make sql sensible? :> *duck* |
| 16:12.23 | brlcad | editing mysql dumps is not what I'd consider a usable format |
| 16:13.25 | brlcad | not for your average editing-person at least, docbook is pushing it but it at least has really good semantic structure and rich markup |
| 16:13.48 | brlcad | pretty sure there's already an emacs mode for that ;) |
| 16:14.05 | minute | brlcad: Is there some sort of caching on your server? |
| 16:14.09 | ``Erik | for editing live sql fields in a running rdbms? O.o |
| 16:14.11 | ``Erik | skeery |
| 16:14.21 | brlcad | minute: what do you mean? |
| 16:14.25 | brlcad | for the website? |
| 16:14.26 | ``Erik | yup, emacs is a dandy os, only thing missing is a decent editor O:-) |
| 16:14.28 | minute | Yeah |
| 16:14.40 | brlcad | ah, drupal caches results to non-registered users |
| 16:14.41 | brlcad | log in |
| 16:14.55 | minute | mm |
| 16:14.57 | ``Erik | rt matrices are the same order as opengl, right? |
| 16:15.05 | brlcad | they only get updates once every few hours iirc |
| 16:15.13 | brlcad | it's configurable (and can be turned off while you're testing if you want) |
| 16:15.23 | minute | Ahh, it was chaching in MediaWiki and Drupal. |
| 16:15.24 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah |
| 16:15.25 | ``Erik | "C natural" right hand, etc? |
| 16:15.45 | ``Erik | opposed to the mathematical "fortran natural", or the abhorrent directx left hand, ... :D |
| 16:15.50 | brlcad | do you have a solaris build of 7.10.4 on hand anywhere? |
| 16:16.17 | brlcad | directx can suck my left-handed nut |
| 16:16.28 | ``Erik | um, no, I had a HEAD build from a few weeks ago, um |
| 16:16.35 | ``Erik | d'no if a temp reaper ate it |
| 16:16.36 | brlcad | darn |
| 16:16.55 | brlcad | widest is being a lil bitch on 7.10.4 for me |
| 16:17.02 | ``Erik | hum |
| 16:17.09 | ``Erik | using the GNU toolchain, or the ucb? |
| 16:17.20 | brlcad | gnu |
| 16:17.44 | brlcad | I tried it |
| 16:17.52 | ``Erik | no go? |
| 16:18.23 | brlcad | it booted up the install disk, booted solaris with good ol cde and did the install, but then when it was all done installing... |
| 16:18.27 | brlcad | the installed image wouldn't boot |
| 16:18.42 | brlcad | some issue finding the disk |
| 16:18.49 | brlcad | probably parallels-specific |
| 16:19.12 | brlcad | don't remember what happened with qemu |
| 16:19.21 | minute | Mmm, the code for the website is in a really really bad shape. |
| 16:19.54 | brlcad | minute: html errors? |
| 16:20.12 | minute | Yeah, it is just awful in general. Mainly my fault though. |
| 16:20.30 | minute | s/general/genreal aswell |
| 16:20.43 | brlcad | I helped some I'm sure :) |
| 16:20.51 | minute | :P |
| 16:21.02 | brlcad | i mean, helping making it worse :) |
| 16:21.18 | minute | Yeah |
| 16:21.33 | brlcad | you're not supposed to agree! |
| 16:21.40 | minute | hehe |
| 16:21.41 | brlcad | j/k |
| 16:22.41 | brlcad | the more I got into the css, the more I realized that it wasn't quite set up to work well with drupal's theming and content management |
| 16:23.02 | brlcad | but! .. it does/did work, so it's something |
| 16:23.10 | ``Erik | http://validator.w3.org/ http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ |
| 16:23.13 | ``Erik | teh yayz |
| 16:24.08 | brlcad | 7 errors and 98 warnings |
| 16:24.09 | minute | sure |
| 16:24.37 | brlcad | looks like one might even be a typo in the .css file |
| 16:25.12 | brlcad | er, three of them even |
| 16:25.28 | brlcad | that's probably why ie6 is throwing a fit |
| 16:25.29 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, the construction company im contracted out to is doing the APG 715 Gate upgrade |
| 16:25.40 | brlcad | nifty |
| 16:25.56 | minute | Non the less a small rewrite would be nice. |
| 16:26.36 | brlcad | yeah, would tighten up the css, could remove the fluff that's not needed any more |
| 16:26.44 | brlcad | lots of duplication in there now |
| 16:26.45 | minute | And that PHP... |
| 16:26.52 | minute | YUCK is an understatement. |
| 16:27.03 | brlcad | especially now that the "look" is pretty much settled now |
| 16:27.57 | minute | Also I need to figure out some way to integrate the skin with gallery2, but gallery2 uses crappy TPL. |
| 16:28.10 | brlcad | you have a pretty decent integration going now I thought |
| 16:28.23 | brlcad | one style that applied to both nicely |
| 16:28.24 | minute | With what? |
| 16:28.27 | minute | yeah |
| 16:28.31 | brlcad | good separation of the header, footer, etc |
| 16:28.35 | minute | ahh |
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| 16:30.09 | minute | The thing that is making this really tedious is the fact that I can't use Notepad++ or Notepad2 while editing the site due to the sudoing thing - I wish there was a way to fix that. |
| 16:30.21 | minute | Well, not fix as such. |
| 16:30.37 | brlcad | howso? |
| 16:30.43 | brlcad | sudo -u www -s |
| 16:30.52 | minute | But that doesn't work with SFTP. |
| 16:31.00 | brlcad | ahh |
| 16:31.26 | brlcad | hm, well if your umask is set, can just upload as you |
| 16:31.39 | minute | hmm |
| 16:31.45 | minute | Maybe there is a way afterall. |
| 16:32.33 | brlcad | try now, fixed the mode on all the files so group perms work |
| 16:32.46 | brlcad | a bunch were 622 |
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| 16:33.56 | minute | Oh wow. |
| 16:33.57 | minute | It works. |
| 16:33.59 | minute | Thanks! |
| 16:36.48 | minute | Nope |
| 16:37.20 | minute | hmm |
| 16:39.05 | minute | brlcad: Are you doing anything to the site ATM? |
| 16:49.11 | minute | Total rewrite it is, then. |
| 16:49.19 | minute | Could be worse. |
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| 18:05.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fchmod.c: Initial check-in. |
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| 18:55.14 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: rt_unprep() was using paths (i.e. a struct bu_ptbl) without being initialized. In fact, paths is never initialized. I'm guessing the intent was to use objs->paths. |
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| 19:10.42 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fbserv_obj.h: The fbsl_fd and fbsc_fd member types should be int. |
| 19:14.35 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: If windows call closesocket() instead of close(). |
| 19:16.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: The c_fd of struct client should be int. |
| 19:17.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: Using bu_fchmod() instead of fchmod. |
| 19:17.58 | brlcad | minute-ssh: not doing anything with the site atm |
| 19:18.03 | brlcad | nor back when you asked :) |
| 19:19.19 | brlcad | lemme know if you have other permission problems, I just made you the owner of all the files |
| 19:19.24 | brlcad | (all the skin files) |
| 19:20.56 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: No longer calling close() in drop_client() because the call to pkg_close() already does this. |
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| 19:26.31 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (archer/Archer.tcl lib/RtControl.tcl): Apparently Itk's Toplevel widget now wants the -menu option directly. |
| 19:30.12 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob found/fixed a memory deallocation bug in the raytracers |
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| 19:33.43 | brlcad | MinuteElectron: lemme know if you need me to repeat what I'd said about the site :) |
| 19:34.10 | MinuteElectron | Still in my scrollback, but I am currently rewriting the skin thing so it might be gone later. |
| 19:34.33 | brlcad | okay, just said "no, not doing anything" and that you now own the files |
| 19:34.47 | brlcad | lemme know if you have any other permission problems |
| 19:35.05 | MinuteElectron | Ahh, so you saw the mess I got myself into then? |
| 19:35.05 | brlcad | that shouldn't ever be a "problem" .. what is in place just works well for other projects |
| 19:35.23 | MinuteElectron | Yeah |
| 19:35.38 | MinuteElectron | I think I have worked out how the system works now. |
| 19:35.40 | brlcad | no, I hadn't |
| 19:35.45 | MinuteElectron | Oh, ok. |
| 19:35.46 | MinuteElectron | nm |
| 19:35.47 | brlcad | just your comments |
| 19:35.51 | MinuteElectron | ok |
| 19:36.37 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: Using bu_fchmod() instead of fchmod(). |
| 19:40.17 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libregex/regerror.c: Reformat regerror() slightly. |
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| 19:43.02 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Mods to expose png_read_destroy() and png_write_destroy(). |
| 19:44.38 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: Update to 4.0.2 |
| 19:49.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: If windows call closesocket() instead of close(). Mods to use PKG_SEND with the proper number of parameters. Mods to have pkg_open() return the correct type on error. |
| 19:50.58 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fb-pix.c fb-png.c): Using bu_fchmod() instead of fchmod(). |
| 19:57.27 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/generic/tkFileFilter.c: Initialize a few variables. |
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| 20:00.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/ (tclExecute.c tclInt.h tclIntDecls.h): Miscellaneous mods for compiling on Windows. |
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| 20:30.00 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/haha.png :) |
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| 20:50.55 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mysystem.png <----- louipc this ones what im running |
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| 21:01.48 | minute | IriX64: Ultimate? |
| 21:01.51 | minute | Did you buy that yourself? |
| 21:02.07 | minute | And on 895MB of RAM, woah. |
| 21:11.01 | ``Erik | yeah, it was released after penultimate |
| 21:20.54 | IriX64 | paid good money for this thing, it's damn well gonna do what I want :) |
| 21:21.27 | IriX64 | 1gig of ram, the cheesy motherboard steals 128 meg for the onboard video :( |
| 21:22.13 | IriX64 | how to speed up windoze, throw memory and money at it :) |
| 21:23.50 | dtidrow_work | yep |
| 21:24.30 | IriX64 | it's building brlcad7.10.4 even as we speak though |
| 21:24.49 | brlcad | you should make an installation tarball for 7.10.4 so others can try it out |
| 21:24.55 | brlcad | (for cygwin) |
| 21:25.15 | IriX64 | just the binaries you mean? |
| 21:25.39 | IriX64 | id have to include the dll's but it could be done |
| 21:25.58 | brlcad | whatever is needed so that it runs |
| 21:25.58 | IriX64 | if i get it to compile ill do that |
| 21:26.04 | brlcad | a binary distribution |
| 21:26.07 | IriX64 | ill try |
| 21:26.08 | brlcad | for cygwin users |
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| 21:26.28 | brlcad | or for windows users for that matter if it doesn't require cygwin itself |
| 21:26.41 | IriX64 | if they have their xwin running itll work |
| 21:27.42 | IriX64 | -march=i486 :) |
| 21:28.02 | IriX64 | or pentium |
| 21:28.50 | IriX64 | gotta go shave, wife keeps nagging me, bbiab :) |
| 21:29.35 | *** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) | |
| 21:29.54 | starseeker | Heh - got a helpful email from one of the Gentoo devs - they apparently REALLY don't like using /opt |
| 21:31.08 | starseeker | brlcad: Do you know who maintains the FreeBSD port? |
| 21:31.10 | ``Erik | yeah, they are a whiney lot :D |
| 21:31.11 | ``Erik | me |
| 21:31.22 | starseeker | where are you installing to? |
| 21:31.28 | ``Erik | /usr/local/brlcad |
| 21:31.36 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 21:31.57 | ``Erik | has for a long long long time |
| 21:32.33 | brlcad | at least ports uses /usr/local by default |
| 21:32.37 | starseeker | Interesting |
| 21:32.48 | ``Erik | yeah, you can override PREFIX to point to where you want |
| 21:32.55 | ``Erik | like /opt if you want the sysV style |
| 21:32.58 | brlcad | but hardly anyone does |
| 21:33.13 | ``Erik | /usr/X11R6 and /usr/Xorg went away, too, it's now all in /usr/local |
| 21:33.17 | starseeker | Gentoo dev suggested using /usr/lib/brlcad for everything and then symlinking the binaries into /usr/bin |
| 21:33.25 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:33.28 | brlcad | interesting |
| 21:33.38 | ``Erik | cuz they'd really love having stuff like /usr/bin/wall ? |
| 21:33.39 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:33.47 | brlcad | wall's gone now :) |
| 21:33.57 | ``Erik | in head... as of this morning... |
| 21:34.02 | brlcad | as of last night |
| 21:34.04 | ``Erik | or yesterday... O.o something, heh |
| 21:35.04 | brlcad | /usr/lib/brlcad is just as good a root as any if they don't mind the symlinks and if it preserves/isolates needing to rename things |
| 21:35.09 | starseeker | He also suggests forcing the use of system libs rather than having configure figure it out... sigh. |
| 21:35.10 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:35.29 | ``Erik | do they provide tcl8.5a6 ? |
| 21:35.34 | starseeker | brlcad: I guess I'll try that - they seem to have a bee in their bonnet about opt |
| 21:35.38 | brlcad | starseeker: forcing it to use system libs is also not a problem "--disable-all" |
| 21:35.50 | starseeker | Except their tcl 8.5 ebuild is masked |
| 21:36.03 | ``Erik | debian doesn't have an 8.5 in testing, :/ |
| 21:36.09 | brlcad | so brl-cad will be masked until it's complete |
| 21:36.15 | brlcad | or make it use 8.4 |
| 21:36.19 | brlcad | with a patch |
| 21:36.33 | brlcad | though louipc seemed to indicate it didn't even need a patch |
| 21:36.56 | brlcad | not sure I believe it didn't really need a patch for everything to work, but if mged comes up, then good enough |
| 21:37.40 | starseeker | Really? |
| 21:38.18 | brlcad | yeah, code-wise 8.4 works for us just as well |
| 21:38.35 | brlcad | 8.5 was needed for updates for a specific platform features (aquatk) |
| 21:38.51 | starseeker | Hmm. Will the configure script in 7.10.4 give it a try with 8.4, or does that need patching? |
| 21:39.05 | brlcad | hindsight 20/20 and all, it's taken way longer than expected (both for tcl and for that need) |
| 21:39.14 | starseeker | heh |
| 21:39.42 | brlcad | mmmm.. it'll need patching to search for tcl8.4 |
| 21:39.52 | starseeker | OK |
| 21:39.53 | brlcad | but literally just like 4 lines |
| 21:40.05 | brlcad | head has those lines already |
| 21:40.22 | brlcad | interesting.. simcity in tcl/tk |
| 21:40.37 | ``Erik | *shudder* |
| 21:40.43 | starseeker | That should be a simple patch. |
| 21:40.52 | ``Erik | which simcity? the first one (on the c64) was pretty fun |
| 21:40.57 | brlcad | http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/24 |
| 21:41.24 | brlcad | apparently maxis is giving the game to OLPC |
| 21:41.34 | ``Erik | nify |
| 21:41.38 | ``Erik | s/f/ft/ |
| 21:53.27 | ``Erik | heh |
| 21:53.56 | starseeker | Cool :-) |
| 21:54.58 | bpoole | Anyone here read xkcd? |
| 21:55.03 | ``Erik | daily. |
| 21:55.05 | starseeker | they're suggesting additional ebuilds be created for libs currently not in portage - given the trouble I've seen in the past getting ebuilds accepted, you'd think that it would be easier to have just one... |
| 21:55.09 | bpoole | I'm seeing him talk tomorrow :) |
| 21:55.13 | brlcad | ``Erik: prefix of /usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ? |
| 21:55.14 | ``Erik | cool |
| 21:55.23 | ``Erik | no, default prefix |
| 21:55.50 | ``Erik | but I found where SOMEONE (won't mention his name, but he sits downstairs and lifts weights) broke it :D |
| 21:57.10 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 21:57.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libfb needs libsocket and libnsl on solaris |
| 22:00.01 | ``Erik | heh, and I fudged the commit message, go figure :D |
| 22:00.21 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: MFC to pick up solaris fix |
| 22:03.35 | PrezKennedy | you guys still hanging out in the WW3 buildings? |
| 22:06.50 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: testing |
| 22:13.35 | ``Erik | ya even going to try an irix release? |
| 22:14.30 | ``Erik | with a 7.10.4 solaris on its way, and supposedly a windows release, the only thing that won't have a 7.10.4 binary is irix... we could have binaries across the board |
| 22:29.34 | starseeker | Mrf. Gentoo has by default itcl and itk 3.3, but it looks like the configure script doesn't see them. Arrgh. |
| 22:30.46 | starseeker | Interesting - it finds itcl.h, but doesn't see Itcl_Init |
| 22:48.17 | brlcad | you have to patch up tcl, tk, tclstubs, and tkstubs |
| 22:48.55 | brlcad | and maybe specifically patch out the -I includes for the src/other/tcl|tk flags |
| 22:49.13 | brlcad | otherwise it'll pick up a specific version number and incrtcl won't allow 8.4 |
| 22:49.47 | ``Erik | (in nmg now, btw) |
| 22:49.48 | brlcad | could be, should be |
| 22:49.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:49.58 | brlcad | so you got a good hour to go |
| 22:50.24 | brlcad | maybe less, that's like half-way or 2/3rds |
| 22:50.34 | ``Erik | guess it gets uploaded on tuesday :) |
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| 00:17.15 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 00:17.17 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: the Framebuffer -> Rectangle Area option doesn't seem to work, at least on Mac |
| 00:17.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: OS X. it turns disables the embedded framebuffer display (with ogl or X) |
| 00:17.21 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: instead of just showing the rect. otherwise it does render the rect correctly |
| 00:17.23 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: and displays if you turn it back to Framebuffer -> All |
| 00:40.13 | brlcad | ~``Erik++ |
| 00:40.40 | brlcad | the new kernel booted up like a charm, awesomeness |
| 00:40.48 | brlcad | f'ing awesome |
| 02:38.05 | ``Erik | swank |
| 02:38.17 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:38.32 | ``Erik | on my personal machines |
| 02:38.53 | ``Erik | I keep half an eye on the changes to stable, and if one looks important, I'll go through and do the world/kernel/mergemaster cycle |
| 02:38.58 | ``Erik | but won't reboot |
| 02:39.15 | ``Erik | unless it's seriously critical (like, in security, major threshhold) |
| 02:39.26 | ``Erik | otherwise, wait for a 'natural event' to reboot it (crash, power outage, etc) |
| 02:40.24 | ``Erik | since this machine is on site ups with generators, the power outage shouldn't be an issue... and crashes are super-rare on stable... you might wanna schedule reboots when you feel the security impact is worth it |
| 02:41.12 | ``Erik | (that's right, I'm not a fan of regularly scheduled reboots for patches, I prefer competent administrators who can make informed decisions) |
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| 02:44.19 | IriX64 | edit /tk/unix/makefile to use tkUnixFont instead of tkUnixRFont and bwish makes now, jury's still out on the rest though |
| 02:44.48 | IriX64 | this is on 7.10.4 |
| 02:45.59 | IriX64 | mged still blows up....sigh |
| 03:09.54 | IriX64 | don't think it's your problem though :) |
| 03:41.32 | brlcad | sounds good to me |
| 03:43.03 | brlcad | it'd have to be a pressing issue (like security) though for the most part, I prefer the uninterrupted uptime unless there's some actualized benefit to be gained |
| 03:43.27 | brlcad | hopefully break the 400 day uptime record :) |
| 03:47.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add fchmod.c to the build and dist |
| 04:48.13 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/points_scan.l: declare extern YYSTYPE yylval to appease the files generated from flex+byacc on stock freebsd 6.3 |
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| 06:47.05 | PrezKennedy | i had to reboot after 50 cuz of a Windows Update |
| 06:47.20 | PrezKennedy | same league... definitely :-P |
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| 13:21.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: Added an entry for win32-msvc8 |
| 13:23.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Initial check-in. |
| 13:26.26 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Added an entry for win32-msvc8 |
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| 21:07.18 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (btclsh/btclsh.vcproj bwish/bwish.vcproj): Initial check-in. |
| 21:09.50 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (consoleMain.c winMain.c unixMain.c cadAppInit.c): Initial check-in. |
| 21:33.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Archer now depends on bwish. |
| 21:35.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/blt.h: Mods for Windows port. |
| 21:37.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: Archer now depends on bwish so this script gets simplified. |
| 21:42.01 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltVecMath.c: Temporary hack for compiling on Windows. |
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| 15:11.48 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: make tclcad_tcl_library() print the path if we're in debug mode, otherwise have it ensure that the library path is actually set (via TclSetLibraryPath() if needed). clean up and remove some of the win32ness |
| 15:28.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: just say it failed -- the actual error should already be printed by the init routine |
| 15:32.27 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 15:32.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: yet another restructuring of the init routine. give Tcl_Init() a chance to work |
| 15:32.31 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: before calling tclcad_auto_path() so that we don't end up trying to force the |
| 15:32.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: init.tcl that is provided in the source distribution. if there's a system tcl |
| 15:32.35 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: being used, it will gawk at trying to load the wrong init script. this goes |
| 15:32.39 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: even further such that we keep track of which packages init properly and only |
| 15:32.41 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: call tclcad_auto_path() if one of them fail (or when we get to the brl-cad lib |
| 15:37.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: drop the disabled code for setting PATH. we can/should now locate execable items individually via bu_brlcad_root instead of relying on PATH. |
| 15:43.41 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: a few too many results reset |
| 15:48.51 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 15:48.53 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: add a similar new two-pass initialization approach that bwish/btclsh are now |
| 15:48.55 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: using such that tclcad_auto_path is only called if one of the init routines |
| 15:48.57 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: actually fails. this helps ensure that we can use a system tcl (though doesn't |
| 15:48.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: take care of itcl loading/version problems). make the error printing a little |
| 15:49.01 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: more consistent as well. |
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| 19:32.31 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: make tclcad_tcl_library take an interp |
| 19:43.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: |
| 19:43.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: make a note that the various *_version variables are all now *_version() |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: functions now since 7.10.2 even though the globals were never intended for |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: external use (they were in headers merely for compilation convenience as they |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: were used across directories in multiple files). additionally added, but not |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: commented is the 'new' brlcad_version() function which isn't as library-specific |
| 19:43.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: as the other variables. |
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| 12:25.11 | xgmx | hi |
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| 13:21.09 | ertugerata | hi ; salut |
| 13:22.44 | ertugerata | mged error : need Tcl 8.5 ? i have 8.5b2 |
| 13:23.40 | ertugerata | Tcl 8.5 in source brlcd ? |
| 13:32.35 | ertugerata | Tcl 8.5 in source brlcad ? |
| 13:34.02 | ertugerata | Itcl_Init error version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5b2, need exactly 8.5 |
| 13:34.02 | ertugerata | Tcl_Import error unknown namespace in import pattern "::itcl::*" |
| 14:05.31 | brlcad | ertugerata: that is one of the errors I'm looking at right now. itcl has directives that make it want a *specific* version of tcl making it really hard to use a system tcl |
| 14:07.02 | ertugerata | system itcl and system tcl my opts |
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| 20:22.24 | ertugerata | hi ; salut |
| 20:22.57 | ertugerata | brlcad i have mged problems with Tcl and itcl |
| 20:56.23 | tarzeau | Elapsed installation time: 1 hour, 51 minutes, 3 seconds |
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| 21:37.13 | ertugerata | brlcad: in source version itcl ? |
| 21:41.26 | yukonbob | ertugerata: what OS are you using? |
| 21:45.06 | ertugerata | linux, pardus distro |
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| 21:52.22 | yukonbob | ?pardus ... /me looks this up... |
| 21:53.39 | ertugerata | www.pardus.org.tr |
| 21:53.39 | yukonbob | does PiSi offer itcl? |
| 21:53.55 | ertugerata | yes |
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| 21:54.00 | ertugerata | in contrib depo |
| 21:54.40 | ertugerata | i m first packager de itcl |
| 21:57.58 | ertugerata | yukonbob: distro ? |
| 21:58.45 | yukonbob | netbsd, but it doesn't matter what distro you use as long as you get your packages to work within the constraints you have --ie: if debian, use dpkg to fix your system up; if redhat, use the RPMs, etc. etc. |
| 22:00.59 | yukonbob | I'm using tcl/tk 8.4 too, btw -- I'd encourage anybody who's curious enough to try the same -- tcl/tk 8.4.x is the latest non-beta tcl, and is far more widely distributed than 8.5... not to mention that there's much more software built against 8.4 than 8.5, so one may have requirements to have 8.4 on the system anyway... |
| 22:02.55 | ``Erik | hrm, any issues with using 84? |
| 22:03.06 | yukonbob | not that I've encountered so far |
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| 22:07.32 | yukonbob | it's _infinately_ better in my situation -- I use tcl/tk for my work, so I've got an interest in having a working, supported tcl/tk, and 8.4.x is the one that qualifies in that regard... I never really even got 8.5 to install the way I wanted on my system anyway... and I want to utilize my package management as much as possible -- 8.4 is supported, as well as many, many extensions... 8.5, not so much. (and installing so much "cruft" under the guise of |
| 22:08.03 | yukonbob | ) |
| 22:09.29 | ``Erik | heh, 85 is still in 'beta', *shrug* |
| 22:09.41 | yukonbob | indeed -- and for good reason. |
| 22:09.43 | ``Erik | I might rework the fbsd package to use tcl84 |
| 22:10.08 | ``Erik | <-- hasn't had issue with tcl85 yet... works dandy both from the src build in BRL-CAD and the port |
| 22:10.38 | ``Erik | but if I can easily use the itcl, itk, and blt from ports in my port, ... so much better |
| 22:11.12 | yukonbob | I'd be happy if you did, and glad to help you if required -- I think tcl/tk 8.4 is too valuable to drop support for, and 8.5 too 'beta' and new to be the sole provider of tcl/tk -- I'd hate for development to slowly move to where tcl/tk 8.5 features exclude 8.4, requiring 3rd party patching, or worse, completely shutting 8.4 out of the picture... |
| 22:13.11 | yukonbob | iirc, the reason for moving to 8.5 was better Mac support, but I'm not sure what that means -- do you know? |
| 22:13.20 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ^--- directed at you |
| 22:13.20 | ``Erik | um, yeah |
| 22:13.21 | ``Erik | uh |
| 22:13.24 | ``Erik | aqua-tk |
| 22:13.49 | ``Erik | tk85 has 'native' widget support for mac, tk84 faked it through the X layer iirc |
| 22:13.52 | ``Erik | so it was... well.. fugly |
| 22:13.58 | ``Erik | and rquires x11.app running |
| 22:14.52 | ``Erik | <-- not sure... |
| 22:14.53 | ``Erik | um |
| 22:15.11 | ``Erik | brlcad and, u, joevalleywhatever his nick is... tim... those wer ethe two pushing it |
| 22:15.24 | ``Erik | I sit at mac's, but I do all my WORK on fbsd boxes |
| 22:15.43 | yukonbob | (using tcl/tk shipped w/ Mac, no less) |
| 22:15.51 | ``Erik | hum |
| 22:16.00 | yukonbob | ^--- years ago -- well before 8.5 |
| 22:16.47 | ``Erik | <-- not a tcl/tk guy... has done a tiny bit of eggdrop scripting, looked at some BRL-CAD shit.... that's it |
| 22:16.57 | yukonbob | tcl 8.4.16 is even still improving Mac support... |
| 22:17.13 | ``Erik | plop me down with scheme or lisp, ruby, ... smalltalk, ... haskell, ocaml, erlang, ... I'm there, yo |
| 22:17.35 | ``Erik | even stuff like lua and python, if I have to |
| 22:18.02 | yukonbob | ``Erik: what scheme is your favourite? |
| 22:19.12 | ``Erik | um, depends on the task |
| 22:19.16 | ``Erik | I like gauche for a lot of stuff |
| 22:19.18 | yukonbob | example? |
| 22:19.33 | ``Erik | gauche is a heavy hitter for things that deal with the OS |
| 22:19.56 | ``Erik | but it's gc is kinda weak (uses boehm) and it not the best for heavy crunch (but it's good) |
| 22:20.43 | ``Erik | chicken and, uh, |
| 22:20.58 | ``Erik | boehm is a conservative C garbage collector |
| 22:21.14 | ``Erik | it's not generational, it's not compacting, it's not ... a lot of things |
| 22:21.23 | ``Erik | java's gc stomps boehm |
| 22:21.46 | ``Erik | don't waste time with guile unless you have to, um |
| 22:22.30 | ``Erik | bigloo is another 'native code' scheme that's ok... sisc if you're in a jvm... s48 has a solid following |
| 22:22.59 | ``Erik | I found that guile was an order of magnitude slower than the 'ok' thchemeth |
| 22:23.19 | yukonbob | this conversation illustrates the strength and weakness of "scheme" -- because there's no cannonical implementation... |
| 22:23.34 | ``Erik | is there a canonical implementation of C? |
| 22:23.36 | ``Erik | or c++? |
| 22:23.56 | ``Erik | I think that's a strength *shrug* as long as the implementations follow the spec, and the spec is followed by the coder |
| 22:24.04 | yukonbob | it seems less perverted than scheme to me, but perhaps I haven't dug deep enough... |
| 22:24.33 | ``Erik | scheme is a bit odd in that it specifically aims for minimalism |
| 22:24.54 | yukonbob | heh -- s/scheme/r5rs/ some might argue |
| 22:24.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 22:25.04 | ``Erik | r6 is coming p |
| 22:25.12 | yukonbob | r6 is already ratified |
| 22:25.24 | ``Erik | the srfi's are good, but not part of the core |
| 22:25.26 | yukonbob | and chicken, for example have said "fsck that" |
| 22:25.40 | ``Erik | heh, most impl's don't even do all of r5 :( |
| 22:25.45 | ``Erik | some "big" ones aren't even r4 |
| 22:26.41 | yukonbob | oh well -- maybe chicken et al will become wicked r5 implementations, and r7 will be more "schemey" so more people are happy... |
| 22:26.47 | ``Erik | correct tail call elimination and continuations (at the same time!) are tricky |
| 22:35.25 | yukonbob | heh -- alfa male |
| 22:44.47 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc5.png :) |
| 22:45.58 | yukonbob | how many hits you getting IriX64? |
| 22:46.33 | IriX64 | ? |
| 22:46.37 | IriX64 | on the site, man its a sympatico server |
| 22:52.01 | IriX64 | yukonbob, does firefox see it all right? |
| 23:00.51 | yukonbob | IriX64: /me doesn't look at havoc pictures any more... |
| 23:01.40 | IriX64 | give me some of yours :) |
| 23:02.09 | IriX64 | the g files |
| 23:03.16 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png |
| 23:04.40 | IriX64 | prettiest wheel iv'e ever seen. |
| 23:04.57 | IriX64 | do you have the whole bike? |
| 23:05.17 | louipc | I've gotten weary of desktop screenshots :p |
| 23:05.30 | IriX64 | heh yea me too |
| 23:05.50 | IriX64 | the attraction there was brlcad, screw the desktop |
| 23:05.56 | louipc | I need to start modelling stuff dangit |
| 23:06.05 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png |
| 23:06.12 | IriX64 | i don't i just use the examples |
| 23:06.16 | louipc | well, just provide the render, not the desktop |
| 23:07.09 | IriX64 | ill try and yukonbob you actually work with this don't you, it shows |
| 23:07.46 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/vid/video.flv |
| 23:08.04 | yukonbob | ^--- POVRay, not BRL-CAD |
| 23:08.55 | IriX64 | can't open a flv file here sorry |
| 23:09.41 | IriX64 | what do i need to look at that, POVRay? |
| 23:10.11 | louipc | it's flash video |
| 23:10.15 | louipc | mplayer... |
| 23:10.35 | IriX64 | unix thing? or does it exist for windows? |
| 23:10.51 | yukonbob | try http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/vid/ |
| 23:11.43 | IriX64 | that i saw |
| 23:11.51 | yukonbob | ?shows up |
| 23:11.56 | IriX64 | yes |
| 23:12.47 | yukonbob | fsck qt is teh p1g |
| 23:13.29 | IriX64 | ? |
| 23:14.56 | louipc | sorry |
| 23:15.45 | yukonbob | indeed. |
| 23:24.25 | yukonbob | IriX64: re: whole bike -- not yet -- when I started there was a problem w/ rotating pipes in BRL-CAD -- (since resolved, I believe)... however, haven't re-attacked yet... |
| 23:26.42 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/houseray.png |
| 23:31.04 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/housecomp.png |
| 23:37.32 | IriX64 | makes me wish i could draw, but i'm happy just fiddling with stuff |
| 23:37.38 | yukonbob | My work is no havoc, but at least it's not a havoc. |
| 23:37.47 | IriX64 | heh yea |
| 23:39.26 | yukonbob | IriX64: if you can take some graph paper and make a plan, then translate that into the mged commands, you're laughing -- if you can see patterns then get tcl (a language so easy it's almost embarassing) to do them for you, then you get bicycle wheels and precise roofs. |
| 23:40.45 | IriX64 | i had trouble drawing a sine wave yukonbob :) |
| 23:40.45 | yukonbob | then you can move to helping starseeker do his Apollo project... |
| 23:41.13 | yukonbob | IriX64: let the computer do the work for you... |
| 23:41.52 | yukonbob | gah -- QT is still building -- /me wonders if this is worth the "effort" |
| 23:41.57 | IriX64 | still need to know what you're doing, i just fiddle, never took much to documentation :) |
| 23:42.08 | yukonbob | well -- can't help you there... |
| 23:42.20 | IriX64 | heh ill call if you can :) |
| 23:42.53 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.114.119) | |
| 23:43.07 | yukonbob | The King, Alice in Wonderland: "Start at the beginning, continue to the end, then stop." |
| 23:43.15 | IriX64 | time to pull another raid on cvs. |
| 23:43.38 | IriX64 | prefer mucking around with code |
| 23:44.42 | yukonbob | IriX64: want a task? Try getting your windows box running BRL-CAD with independant installations of tcl/tk 8.4 with supporting libs (blt, itcl, etc). |
| 23:45.22 | yukonbob | keep notes, and keep me in the loop wrt your progress... |
| 23:45.50 | IriX64 | my windows box, has a hard enough time compiling the stuff it's *supposed to compile |
| 23:47.11 | yukonbob | ?so wtf do you keep trying to recompile BRL-CAD (I'm _really_ curious) |
| 23:47.43 | IriX64 | trying to stay current thats all |
| 23:47.54 | yukonbob | ...stay current, and then not use it? |
| 23:48.24 | yukonbob | are you following -current, or 7.10.4? |
| 23:48.30 | IriX64 | hoping eventually to provide cygwin compiles and all thats needed to run it on a windows box |
| 23:48.35 | IriX64 | both |
| 23:50.07 | yukonbob | well, if you want to help a project I've adopted, consider playing w/ tcl/tk 8.4 etc. Get that stuff on your machine, and exclude it from the BRL-CAD build, having the build use the already-installed versions you've got... |
| 23:51.38 | IriX64 | might try that ive already got tcl/tk8.4.6 |
| 23:52.09 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/hwYhxt94.html <--- the 1's were added by me cause this thing conflicts with libbu |
| 23:52.40 | yukonbob | nice -- though 8.4.6 is a bit old in the 8.4 series -- 8.4.16 is the latest, released week/two ago... |
| 23:52.54 | IriX64 | where please? |
| 23:53.59 | yukonbob | http://tcl.sourceforge.net/ |
| 23:59.54 | tarzeau | i've made debian packages of brlcad |
| 23:59.59 | tarzeau | (finally, and it even works) |
| 00:00.05 | yukonbob | !nice |
| 00:00.08 | tarzeau | now i see ./misc/debian ... ouf |
| 00:00.16 | tarzeau | anyone wants to try? |
| 00:00.25 | yukonbob | link? |
| 00:00.27 | tarzeau | where can i find some example .g files to load? |
| 00:00.32 | tarzeau | gnu.ethz.ch/debian/brlcad/ |
| 00:01.13 | yukonbob | share/db/truck.g |
| 00:01.24 | yukonbob | etc. |
| 00:01.36 | tarzeau | it's a bit slow remotely, installing it locally |
| 00:02.03 | yukonbob | you're running via remote DISPLAY? |
| 00:02.09 | tarzeau | yes |
| 00:02.13 | tarzeau | it wasn't that bad |
| 00:02.22 | yukonbob | over LAN, or further? |
| 00:02.27 | tarzeau | i've got 100mbit/gbit at work.. and 1mbit at home |
| 00:03.27 | tarzeau | is erik greenwald in here? |
| 00:03.53 | yukonbob | that'd be ``Erik |
| 00:04.00 | tarzeau | ``Erik: hey :) |
| 00:04.16 | tarzeau | who creates the tarballs on sf.net ? |
| 00:04.36 | yukonbob | prolly ``Erik and/or brlcad (Sean) |
| 00:11.17 | tarzeau | i did load truck.g |
| 00:11.29 | tarzeau | but i only see it as a little yellow dot, very very far away |
| 00:11.42 | tarzeau | where do i buy the binoculars? |
| 00:13.41 | louipc | I think it's mouse button 1 |
| 00:13.59 | IriX64 | other way button 3:) |
| 00:14.54 | tarzeau | i only see one pixel |
| 00:15.02 | tarzeau | maybe i need to study the documentation |
| 00:15.45 | tarzeau | does mged call one of its 400 binaries often? |
| 00:16.01 | tarzeau | PATH=/usr/lib/brlcad:$PATH /usr/lib/brlcad/mged |
| 00:16.11 | tarzeau | i launch it like this, with all it's binaries put in /usr/lib/brlcad/ |
| 00:20.31 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/jH6IkN49.html <---- yukonbob, pffft i have less trouble with tk8.4.6, not gonna tackle this one :) |
| 00:24.14 | yukonbob | tarzeau: "tops" to see toplevel "objects", "e <toplevel obj name>" to display it... |
| 00:26.34 | tarzeau | i did e g2 in truck.g and now a red square appeared |
| 00:26.37 | tarzeau | a red box |
| 00:26.54 | tarzeau | ah and lmb/smb zoom in/out |
| 00:27.06 | tarzeau | I CAN SEE THE TRUCK |
| 00:27.09 | tarzeau | with e g4 |
| 00:27.37 | tarzeau | KICK ASS |
| 00:27.41 | tarzeau | a truck! |
| 00:31.16 | tarzeau | haha toyjeep, pink jeep |
| 00:36.39 | tarzeau | /usr/bin/rt: No such file or directory |
| 00:36.48 | tarzeau | hmm i got to tell it to not use full paths :( |
| 00:37.02 | tarzeau | or even better, i tell it where to install at install time i guess |
| 00:37.08 | tarzeau | oh wait :( |
| 00:59.10 | louipc | hehe |
| 01:16.10 | ``Erik | usually brlcad for the source tarball and mac dmg, I do the fbsd tbz's and usually hte solaris image |
| 01:17.39 | ``Erik | the two "hot" models to check out are the m35 and the havoc |
| 01:18.03 | ``Erik | moss is good for a newbie to look at, too |
| 02:10.59 | tarzeau | i looked at havoc |
| 02:11.02 | tarzeau | gotta check m35 |
| 02:11.30 | tarzeau | would it be possible to not ship blt lib with the tarball? |
| 02:22.48 | ``Erik | it's part of the src tarball, but if you have an acceptable version installed, BRL-CAD SHOULD used the installed version... |
| 02:26.40 | tarzeau | i do, i've used also --disable-bltstuff |
| 02:32.43 | ``Erik | and it still tries to build blt? |
| 02:51.09 | *** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
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| 17:15.38 | brlcad | yukonbob: just so you know, I am working to make the mods necessary so either 8.4 or 8.5 will work, but it's a bit tricky due to various pathing issues (particularly when you support arbitrary combinations of extensions enabled/disabled) |
| 17:15.56 | *** join/#brlcad bob` (n=bob@static-71-240-124-130.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) | |
| 17:16.10 | brlcad | 8.4's aquatk frankly "sucks" .. heavily broken in areas we need |
| 17:19.00 | brlcad | yukonbob: interesting hub -- was that rendered with pov? |
| 17:26.56 | brlcad | tarzeau: I usually create them -- if you see anything that needs fixing, lemme know |
| 17:31.56 | brlcad | items are disable/enabled via the various --enable-*-build --disable-*-build options (see the --help list and/or INSTALL) .. configure will auto-disable by default if it detects a system-installed version |
| 18:38.35 | *** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@81.213.72.50) | |
| 18:38.55 | ertugerata | salut , hi |
| 18:40.07 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: hub -- not BRL-CAD |
| 18:41.43 | ertugerata | yukonbob: hi |
| 18:41.48 | yukonbob | hey ertugerata |
| 18:42.07 | ertugerata | tu parle français ? |
| 18:42.18 | yukonbob | un peux, mais pas bien |
| 18:42.47 | ertugerata | yukonbob: mon ami a une patche pour brlcad avec new tcl |
| 18:43.02 | yukonbob | 8.5 |
| 18:43.18 | yukonbob | ? |
| 18:43.18 | ertugerata | pour 8.5b2 |
| 18:43.43 | yukonbob | et, le patch fait quoi? |
| 18:44.08 | ertugerata | http://svn.pardus.org.tr/contrib/applications/science/brlcad/files/ |
| 18:44.29 | yukonbob | brlcad: s/not BRL-CAD/no, BRL-CAD/ (ie: it _was_ done w/ brlcad ;) |
| 18:44.47 | ertugerata | patch pour configure.ac et new tcl |
| 18:45.07 | ertugerata | je peux voir comment in netbsd build brlcad ? |
| 18:47.52 | yukonbob | (je voir les programmes, un moment svp) |
| 18:48.08 | ertugerata | ok |
| 18:52.19 | yukonbob | ertugerata: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/df7b56e2 |
| 18:53.41 | ertugerata | ton system a tcl8.4 |
| 18:53.48 | yukonbob | oiu |
| 18:53.50 | yukonbob | oui |
| 18:54.21 | yukonbob | les changes pour 8.4 sur NetBSD -- je pense que les plus est pour 8.4, peut etre tout... |
| 18:54.33 | yukonbob | et... |
| 18:54.45 | ertugerata | in netbsd comme gentoo vous compile le programme ? |
| 18:54.57 | ertugerata | il n'ya pas package system ? |
| 18:58.31 | yukonbob | non -- mais ca c'est le method que je utilize |
| 18:58.49 | yukonbob | il y a pkgsrc (src) et pkg_add, etc. (binary) |
| 18:59.00 | yukonbob | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d37cb80c3 |
| 18:59.27 | yukonbob | ^-- arguments pour ./configure |
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| 19:00.25 | ertugerata | yukonbob: vous avez urt itck itcl separed |
| 19:00.57 | yukonbob | oui -- avec pkgsrc... |
| 19:01.15 | ertugerata | quel e leur version ? |
| 19:01.25 | yukonbob | de les tout? |
| 19:01.48 | ertugerata | no itck itcl et urt version seul |
| 19:01.53 | yukonbob | ah... |
| 19:02.39 | yukonbob | tcl-itcl-current-20040920nb4 <-- itcl et itk... |
| 19:02.58 | yukonbob | urt-3.1b1nb8 |
| 19:03.23 | yukonbob | "nb[numero]" est pour NetBSD |
| 19:03.26 | ertugerata | my urt 3.1b |
| 19:03.40 | ertugerata | itk and itcl cvs |
| 19:04.03 | yukonbob | et quel age est les files? |
| 19:08.51 | ertugerata | 20071111 |
| 19:08.59 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: 8.4/8.5 -- really nice to hear -- when I was talking about my experiences w/ MacOS/Tcl, I wasn't viewing the results Tk's rendering with a microscope (and in fact, I was still primarily developing for X11 (_and_ in fact, don't put too much time pining for a better-looking UI than even X11 ;)) |
| 19:09.04 | yukonbob | ertugerata: ! |
| 19:09.50 | yukonbob | je va faire un nouveau pkg pour moi ;) |
| 19:10.58 | yukonbob | brlcad: so if you say that in your experience AquaTk is teh suX0r compared to what one would get w/ a native MacOS (holding it to high standards), I don't doubt... |
| 19:11.34 | yukonbob | brlcad: have you seen: http://wiki.tcl.tk/13734 ... does it help in anyway? |
| 19:14.46 | yukonbob | soo -- maybe the substandard rendering is a combination of Tcl implementation, as well as the Mac APIs doing their best to make all things look Aqua (even w/ the "old" Carbon API)? |
| 19:18.32 | yukonbob | http://developer.apple.com/macosx/architecture/index.html suggests different re: purposes of Carbon/Cocoa... |
| 19:23.37 | yukonbob | http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/mac/2001/05/23/cocoa_vs_carbon.html however, suggests Carbon is indeed for porting older code, and Cocoa is the new hotness |
| 19:28.18 | brlcad | yukonbob: re: hub -- ah, didn't think so :) thx looked too much like opengl raster render |
| 19:29.06 | brlcad | er, so it is a brl-cad model .. is that an rt render?? |
| 19:32.37 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: rt -- indeed it is... |
| 19:32.59 | brlcad | weird... |
| 19:33.17 | brlcad | the blends done with torii? |
| 19:34.30 | *** join/#brlcad ulusoy (n=ulusoy@81.214.93.222) | |
| 19:34.49 | ulusoy | hi |
| 19:35.25 | brlcad | yukonbob: fyi, --with-ogl=no with --without-opengl is redundant |
| 19:35.34 | brlcad | howdy ulusoy |
| 19:36.17 | ulusoy | i install brlcad on my pc a few minutes ago. |
| 19:36.24 | brlcad | also if you end up simply wanting to disable everything, there's a --disable-all flag |
| 19:36.51 | brlcad | (shorthand for --disable-almost-everything-build, see INSTALL for other aliases) |
| 19:37.02 | brlcad | ulusoy: great |
| 19:37.25 | brlcad | docs are on http://brlcad.org and "mged" is probably where you want to start -- the docs and tutorials are pretty much required reading ;) |
| 19:37.54 | ulusoy | thanks. |
| 19:38.04 | ulusoy | i need them |
| 19:38.53 | brlcad | yukonbob: and we're not pining for the better-looking UI -- the vast majority simply don't know what X11 is or how to use it (lot of support requests where they don't even have it installed) |
| 19:39.12 | brlcad | not so much that AquaTk sucks -- if the port is "complete" then it won't suck |
| 19:39.43 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: ogl -- ya -- but I got two messages about how to do it, so just covered my *ss and put both ;) -- are they both valid? So either one of them will work? |
| 19:39.48 | brlcad | it's just simply incomplete in 8.4, lots of basic things not yet working -- that's where 8.5 is considerably better where dozens of bugs were fixed |
| 19:40.02 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, both are valid |
| 19:40.04 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: blends -- yes, iirc |
| 19:40.24 | brlcad | our configure has a slew of aliases for each command for those "in the know" that just want to type less |
| 19:40.37 | brlcad | INSTALL should list them all, and of course there's always --help |
| 19:40.58 | yukonbob | re: blends -- there are blends from hub-edge to body (tubular middle section), as well as the fluted spoke-holes, which also use the *interior* of a torus |
| 19:41.01 | brlcad | alas, help doesn't list the aliases, but it'd be way too long if it did |
| 19:41.15 | yukonbob | :) |
| 19:41.30 | yukonbob | brlcad: how are you doing -- haven't chatted in a while... |
| 19:41.42 | brlcad | busy bee, but doing great |
| 19:41.56 | brlcad | preparing the release took a lot of time/energy |
| 19:42.01 | brlcad | still have to write up the release notes |
| 19:43.47 | ulusoy | o ne |
| 19:43.49 | brlcad | that oreilly article isn't entirely true fwiw -- both carbon and cocoa are established with their purposes |
| 19:43.54 | ulusoy | im sorry |
| 19:44.30 | yukonbob | hey -- are you interested in the playing/work I've done w/ 8.4 -- if there's anything you want (and a certain format to get it to you) let me know... perhaps I'll just get a report of my build env., methods and patches and send it your way, in case there's something useful either for you (or other devs), or other hax0r5 who want to get more comfortable w/ the distribution and working with it... |
| 19:44.48 | brlcad | cocoa is simply what they 'want' most to use, but there are plenty of cases where you simply have to drop down to carbon (performance, control of the timing loops, c/c++ interface, ..) |
| 19:45.13 | yukonbob | is cocoa aimed at obj c? |
| 19:45.15 | brlcad | yukonbob: did you have to mod any code to get it to work? if so, a patch of that would be interesting |
| 19:45.20 | brlcad | yeah, cocoa is all objc |
| 19:46.06 | brlcad | you can use the objc++ hooks they added to gcc and directly interface to C++ code in ObjC, but then you're still in ObjC mode |
| 19:46.46 | yukonbob | brlcad: I have _not_ had to touch any core code yet -- I'm "working" on moving bwish to something like libbwish so one can "package add bwish" to a generic tclsh/wish, but otherwise have not delved into the code (except for when I was hoping to get rt-xray to recognize densities, but I didn't get anywhere with that ;) |
| 19:47.24 | brlcad | yukonbob: as for your build settings, I'm almost positive it worked because you used both system tcl and system incrTcl .. if you try to not use system incrTcl, I believe it'll fail atm (with a version whine) |
| 19:47.25 | yukonbob | re: bwish -- I've got it loadable, but haven't built interfaces to any of the functions... |
| 19:48.11 | yukonbob | brlcad: I have no doubt about that, but I think that's not too shocking... |
| 19:48.36 | brlcad | not shocking, but something I still gotta fix :) |
| 19:49.38 | brlcad | we can't/don't assume any package management system -- minimally should build with whatever is installed piecewise or entirely stand-alone |
| 19:50.38 | *** part/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@81.213.72.50) | |
| 19:50.39 | yukonbob | I'd call it low priority -- all those things are easily available to others -- so there's no reason to _have_ to go partly in-distro, partly out-distro wrt the tcl install -- hopefully between myself, ``Erik (who said he'd play w/ it on FBSD) and maybe Irix (who might (???) play with it in cygwin/windows/whatever-hes-running), we can figure that out... |
| 19:51.52 | brlcad | of course |
| 19:52.08 | brlcad | it is low/no priority for distros that have package management |
| 19:52.26 | brlcad | you just set the flags all on/off and set the dependencies |
| 19:53.05 | yukonbob | I believe it's got everything that's necessary. |
| 19:53.09 | brlcad | we have a long history of specifically NOT requiring users that are compiling to "go get *anything*" in order to compile |
| 19:53.58 | brlcad | package management systems take care of that so it's not an issue, but from a bigger cross-platform perspective it's something that *I* have to worry about (else it turns into an avalanche of support requests that I'd rather not have) |
| 19:56.00 | yukonbob | right -- and by shipping the full distro, nobody _is_ required to get anything -- and it's a valid way to look at it... but mixing things up between in-distro and on-system-already could be a really tricky business... package system, ActiveTcl, or just installing your own tarballs and getting them to work, I think it may be a tall order to get brl-cad to build against what's essentially a half-done job (if you've got tcl/tk, etc, but not itcl). |
| 19:57.30 | brlcad | yet a fairly common case too, e.g. Macs have tcl/tk and a few extensions, but not incrTcl ;) |
| 19:57.55 | brlcad | I'd much prefer to use vendor-provided libraries, particularly when they are customized (as the case is on Macs) |
| 20:01.00 | brlcad | i've got it compiling with the last set of re-enablings of 8.4 |
| 20:01.38 | brlcad | now just get the run-time errors on incrtcl to sort out -- almost sure it's because it's still using the tcl config from our sources, include path issues during compile-time |
| 20:02.25 | brlcad | yukonbob: no, not 100% positive, but the mix still should work if our flags are right :) |
| 20:02.40 | brlcad | historically has worked, so it's what I'd call a build system bug |
| 20:02.47 | yukonbob | ahh |
| 20:03.16 | brlcad | ~yukonbob++ |
| 20:04.06 | brlcad | there IS a system incr ... it's just not in a system path for some reason, have to see why they did that and how to detect it "correctly" |
| 20:11.06 | yukonbob | ya -- mine loads 3.3 np -- "package require Itk" "package require Itcl" |
| 20:11.15 | yukonbob | (OS X, 10.4) |
| 20:17.52 | brlcad | wonder if they shoved it into the Tcl framework |
| 20:18.04 | brlcad | I'll have to test that |
| 21:05.42 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:06.47 | IriX64 | why are they duplicating bu_bomb() in /src/other/lgt/error.c and src/remrt/rtsrv.c ? |
| 21:09.58 | IriX64 | yukonbob... trying my luck with tcl8.4.16 after all :) |
| 21:10.25 | brlcad | IriX64: i already explained why it's there to you |
| 21:10.33 | IriX64 | huh when |
| 21:10.36 | brlcad | and told you what you can try to do about it |
| 21:10.44 | IriX64 | what |
| 21:11.04 | brlcad | several months ago when you first started commenting about it |
| 21:11.24 | IriX64 | ill fix my copy, forgive, i thought it was first time i mentioned it |
| 21:11.38 | brlcad | it's at least the third time |
| 21:11.44 | IriX64 | sorry man |
| 21:12.02 | IriX64 | memory really is poor please forgive |
| 21:12.30 | IriX64 | ill check my logs |
| 21:12.39 | IriX64 | as to what to do about it :) |
| 21:13.44 | IriX64 | ahh local functions |
| 21:26.43 | *** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) | |
| 21:33.34 | yukonbob | IriX64: re: tcl/tk 8.4.16 -- nice! Are you compiling them from src? |
| 21:33.47 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548740C0.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:34.03 | IriX64 | yea man i can't find binaries for my weird little setup |
| 21:34.26 | yukonbob | IriX64: ...and how'd it go? |
| 21:34.41 | yukonbob | does BRL-CAD run natively on Windows, or does it require Cygwin? |
| 21:35.11 | IriX64 | requires the cygwin dll's |
| 21:35.33 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/QMUwZz69.html < this is what i built, perfect timing :) |
| 21:35.56 | IriX64 | now to install the thing |
| 21:36.42 | IriX64 | screwed up on the prefix, ahh well |
| 21:37.16 | IriX64 | i don't think it cares, does it |
| 21:37.20 | IriX64 | ? |
| 21:38.44 | IriX64 | my systems not that slow, just that i walked away a few times and it hit snags in the compile |
| 22:21.32 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/zG814m60.html <--- yukonbob, there you go :( |
| 23:29.45 | yukonbob | IriX64: start hacking -- what's happening there is the same thing brlcad, ``Erik and I have been talking about for a while -- my suggestions for this are to take all tcl-related bits and handle them _outside_ of the BRL-CAD distrubtion -- so grab your itcl, and blt, tkimg and build them on your own, against the tcl/tk 8.4 you've got, then build BRL-CAD against those tcl components you've got installed. |
| 23:31.42 | *** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782734.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 23:31.45 | IriX64 | understood |
| 23:33.29 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:33.52 | ``Erik | bu_bumb does something specific, but in lgt, we want it to do something ELSE, so the symbol is overridden |
| 23:34.07 | ``Erik | 'sup, yukon? |
| 23:35.25 | yukonbob | well, it's dim up here -- days are short, cloudy (might even be snowing)... hacking away on various things... |
| 23:36.08 | yukonbob | had a good chat with brlcad this afternoon |
| 23:36.30 | ``Erik | ohyeah? just good chumming, or soething enlightening? |
| 23:37.12 | yukonbob | pretty casual, but talked about tcl/tk on Mac; made some observations and "discoveries" |
| 23:37.47 | ``Erik | cool, my understanding is that tk is a stinker with 84 on mac |
| 23:38.06 | yukonbob | heh -- talked "french" with ertugerata |
| 23:38.08 | ``Erik | *nix and winderz are good with it *shrug* |
| 23:38.13 | ``Erik | wow |
| 23:38.15 | ``Erik | tongue and all??? |
| 23:38.17 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:38.30 | yukonbob | french talking != french kissing :) |
| 23:38.43 | ``Erik | <-- scrolls and reads |
| 23:38.59 | ``Erik | if brlcad is doing the 84 compat hacks, that means I dont have to, sweet |
| 23:39.23 | ``Erik | and, uh... tcl 85b2? O.o 2??? |
| 23:39.27 | yukonbob | ``Erik: see link I posted to wiki.tcl.tk |
| 23:39.39 | yukonbob | (re: tk on MacOS) |
| 23:44.07 | ``Erik | okie, read up the backlog |
| 23:44.44 | ``Erik | ... "hum" |
| 23:45.02 | ``Erik | carbon is the c++ "low level" groove, cocoa ist he objC higher level way |
| 23:45.21 | ``Erik | carbon is recommended by apple, to keep fucktards frm getting their fingers too deep, I'd imagine |
| 23:45.25 | ``Erik | er |
| 23:45.27 | ``Erik | sorry |
| 23:45.31 | ``Erik | cocoa is recomdned |
| 23:45.49 | ``Erik | having done both carbon and cocoa, I MUCH prefer the cocoa |
| 23:46.05 | ``Erik | c++ is.... well, bad. objc is bad, but less bad than c++ |
| 23:46.30 | yukonbob | I've only _just_ read a bit about both, but as I hear, Cocoa itself in fact uses Carbon |
| 23:46.52 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:46.56 | ``Erik | abstraction does that. |
| 23:47.23 | ``Erik | cocoa uses carbon like C uses assembly |
| 23:47.46 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/aAuxTb26.html <---- do i need to let you know about these? |
| 23:48.29 | ``Erik | irix: a warning is not someting to be concerned about, and anything in src/other is "not our problem" |
| 23:48.39 | IriX64 | good then |
| 23:48.45 | yukonbob | a snippet that small is almost useless, and what ``Erik said :) |
| 23:49.00 | IriX64 | man it gives the file and line# |
| 23:49.08 | ``Erik | it was enough to tell me it was n src/other/blt ... straight import |
| 23:49.26 | IriX64 | ok |
| 23:49.46 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:49.50 | yukonbob | ?there's no indication it came from src/other/blt |
| 23:50.02 | ``Erik | you've seen the commits from bparker, right? I think he's working on a windows 7.10.4 |
| 23:50.11 | ``Erik | blt.h is in src/other/blt |
| 23:50.14 | IriX64 | ah |
| 23:50.23 | ``Erik | ... as in, bacon lettuce tomato... |
| 23:50.39 | yukonbob | blt.h could be from any blt distribution -- I think IriX64 is building seperate tcl pieces... |
| 23:51.10 | IriX64 | its the big piece i want ;) |
| 23:51.16 | yukonbob | anyway -- it's a warning |
| 23:51.22 | IriX64 | right |
| 23:51.34 | yukonbob | nothing to fret about in this case... |
| 23:51.42 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:52.47 | yukonbob | IriX64: is this blt from sourceforge or the BRL-CAD distro? |
| 23:53.05 | IriX64 | sourceforge |
| 23:53.18 | yukonbob | rock'n'roll -- keep it up :) |
| 23:53.22 | IriX64 | cvs |
| 23:53.26 | IriX64 | :) |
| 23:53.50 | IriX64 | so was that last horrible thing i built :) |
| 23:54.27 | yukonbob | you've got tkimg too? |
| 23:54.38 | IriX64 | no |
| 23:54.51 | yukonbob | oh -- /me sees what you're saying... the last thing was from cvs... |
| 23:54.58 | IriX64 | yes |
| 23:55.21 | IriX64 | but using system tcl8.4.16 |
| 23:55.38 | ``Erik | <-- has a strong interest in making the software work with as much external sw as possible |
| 23:55.39 | yukonbob | what was "the last thing"... itcl? |
| 23:55.49 | IriX64 | brlcad |
| 23:56.10 | IriX64 | screwed up the prefix used 7.10.4 |
| 23:56.37 | ``Erik | heh, i think everone interested in package mgmt is up that alley |
| 23:56.48 | IriX64 | ``Erik then take out the bloody needs exactly blah blah has yah yah check |
| 23:57.21 | yukonbob | IriX64: it's your own system and time, so do what you like, but using cvs (ie: not formally released) increases your chances for breakage -- which means you're fighting a battle on more fronts than you need, and pretty much renders this as a formal test "dubious" at best. |
| 23:57.47 | IriX64 | heh true but i like fiddling |
| 23:58.09 | yukonbob | don't fiddle; you'll go blind |
| 23:58.13 | IriX64 | heh |
| 23:59.33 | ``Erik | um |
| 23:59.58 | ``Erik | src/tcl/library/init.tcl has an 'exact' line mebbe 40 lines down that shouldn't be |
| 00:00.17 | ``Erik | technically, the ampi stuff *SHOULD* refer to the detected tcl init.tcl file, not the included |
| 00:00.18 | ``Erik | um |
| 00:00.19 | IriX64 | see |
| 00:00.21 | ``Erik | but it don't |
| 01:29.13 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.110.186) | |
| 02:31.36 | *** join/#brlcad fiberchunks (n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) | |
| 02:49.38 | brlcad | it "should" and does in head iirc |
| 02:50.09 | brlcad | the tricky one is itcl which I think is picking up the tclConfig.sh from our sources |
| 02:50.22 | brlcad | so it gets compiled looking for a specific version (which at run-time doesn't exist) |
| 02:52.42 | ``Erik | hm, when I looked, itcl was using src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl, which had a requires exactly line |
| 02:52.45 | ``Erik | or, uh |
| 02:52.47 | ``Erik | ampi was, rather |
| 02:52.57 | ``Erik | mebbe both |
| 02:53.21 | ``Erik | I have an ed hack in the fbsd port to work around the issue |
| 02:53.22 | ``Erik | :/ |
| 02:53.36 | ``Erik | "heros" is on, btw... kinda half watching it.... |
| 02:54.20 | ``Erik | how's the new machine coming? |
| 02:58.34 | brlcad | not much since saturday |
| 02:59.00 | brlcad | finished backups, did some more performance testing, had some DDoS stuff to take care of on Sunday |
| 03:01.43 | Supaplex | yucky :p |
| 03:03.48 | starseeker | brlcad: Am I correct that latest cvs still needs the patched itcl/itk? |
| 03:08.42 | brlcad | Supaplex: not the first, not the last :) |
| 03:08.54 | brlcad | and wasn't the brl-cad site.. but related hardware getting hit :) |
| 03:08.59 | Supaplex | yup. kiddies. |
| 03:17.16 | ``Erik | damn christa miller is rompable |
| 03:31.44 | *** join/#brlcad fiberchunks_ (n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) | |
| 03:32.56 | *** join/#brlcad fiberchunks__ (n=foo@c-71-235-174-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) | |
| 03:34.20 | fiberchunks__ | damned router :/ |
| 03:41.33 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:45.00 | ``Erik | a bz'er? |
| 03:45.55 | fiberchunks | yah, long time ago |
| 03:46.01 | fiberchunks | now, not so much |
| 03:46.28 | ``Erik | <-- never gotten into the bz groove |
| 03:46.36 | ``Erik | just noticed your channels :D |
| 03:46.51 | fiberchunks | great game, just have no time for it anymore |
| 03:46.56 | ``Erik | the boy *points at brlcad* seems to be into it |
| 03:47.09 | fiberchunks | yah, I've known him for quite some time |
| 03:47.52 | fiberchunks | without him, there'd likely be very little in the way of mac work for it |
| 03:48.07 | fiberchunks | among other things |
| 03:48.07 | ``Erik | true |
| 03:48.23 | ``Erik | I'm under the impression that there's only one other person really pushing the game, uh |
| 03:48.27 | ``Erik | matt or something |
| 03:48.39 | fiberchunks | jeff |
| 03:48.44 | ``Erik | jeffm? |
| 03:48.48 | fiberchunks | indeed |
| 03:48.51 | ``Erik | not riker |
| 03:49.03 | ``Erik | yeah, I think jeffm is it |
| 03:49.23 | fiberchunks | oh tim? he's always around -- I'm not sure how into it he is anymore, but he's the 'official' king tut |
| 03:49.47 | ``Erik | I was name dropping to someone and tey were like "omfg, you know tim riker?" and I said, no, an active dev, so they said jeffm... heh |
| 03:50.12 | ``Erik | I THINK it was jeffm |
| 03:50.22 | ``Erik | my memory aint' so good in my old age *sigh* |
| 03:50.29 | fiberchunks | most likely - he's one of the most active |
| 03:50.29 | brlcad | naw, more than that working on it |
| 03:50.41 | brlcad | arguably 2-3 guys "leading" most of the work (and that doesn't include tim) |
| 03:50.56 | ``Erik | damn, christa ... damn |
| 03:50.56 | brlcad | and not counting the peripheral coders |
| 03:50.57 | fiberchunks | tim still the figurehead, brlcad ? |
| 03:51.05 | brlcad | on paper, sure |
| 03:51.13 | fiberchunks | some things never change :) |
| 03:51.18 | brlcad | he's done even less since you were last around |
| 03:51.20 | ``Erik | seriously, would anyone here turn down christa miller? |
| 03:51.33 | fiberchunks | fancy -- why doesn't he turn it over I wonder |
| 03:51.41 | brlcad | he popped in one day a few months ago when gsoc kicked off to vote on the student submissions |
| 03:51.52 | brlcad | but that's about it for '07 |
| 03:51.59 | ``Erik | hopefully I rate as #2 or at least a close #3 for BRL-CAD dev :D |
| 03:52.08 | brlcad | ``Erik: I know lots of chicks that would turn her down :) |
| 03:52.37 | ``Erik | I think my chick would saddle up for her, so it's all good :D |
| 03:52.55 | fiberchunks | yay, take pictures! |
| 03:52.58 | ``Erik | once you quit screaming "tmi", ... |
| 03:53.25 | brlcad | hey, so long as you're not in the pics, I"m all for it! :) |
| 03:53.27 | ``Erik | a buddy of mine up in nyc a psych phd, finally bought a mac today |
| 03:53.45 | ``Erik | she's going between ecstatic and terrified |
| 03:53.52 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:54.03 | brlcad | good stuff |
| 03:54.17 | fiberchunks | bastich! |
| 03:54.33 | ``Erik | I might buy an ibook soon |
| 03:54.43 | ``Erik | they look like decent little machines if you slap a little ram in |
| 03:54.49 | fiberchunks | i'm thinking of one of those fancy new imacs for the family |
| 03:55.08 | ``Erik | I'm waiting for a field report on the video card performance |
| 03:55.19 | ``Erik | if the intel chip does what I need done, ... *shrug* |
| 03:55.40 | brlcad | last I read, the imac video "problem" was fixed with the latest rev |
| 03:55.57 | brlcad | you can actually run dual head now, which was stupidly crippled before |
| 03:56.04 | fiberchunks | yeah, what the hell is with the condensation thing? they put an icebox in that thing? |
| 03:56.25 | ``Erik | multiscreen isn't my concern, it's the performance for running "wow" that worries me |
| 03:56.56 | ``Erik | if a plain chicklet macbook maxes cpu on wow, I'll buy one... otherwise, I might go pro for the nvidia chip |
| 03:57.25 | fiberchunks | mmmmm, nvidia. Although, if amd does things right, in a couple of years ATI could be decent again |
| 03:57.46 | ``Erik | I have a sour taste to nvidia. |
| 03:57.54 | fiberchunks | why for? |
| 03:57.59 | ``Erik | their unix guys... don't understand unix |
| 03:58.05 | fiberchunks | I've never had anything but sucess with their cards |
| 03:58.24 | ``Erik | the ioctl stuff was fucking BAD, it relied on outright bugs in linux code, which made the fbsd effort ugly |
| 03:58.35 | ``Erik | also; they didn't hire me, so poo on them. :D |
| 03:58.40 | fiberchunks | haha |
| 03:59.10 | fiberchunks | ah fbsd, my exp is strictly with linux and of course doze (for solidworks at work, regretfully) |
| 03:59.13 | ``Erik | but seriosuly, their ioctl stuff relied on a weirdness of linux with memory addressing |
| 03:59.45 | ``Erik | namely, linux has a weird behavior of reporting "local memory" at the same address of wire memory in an ioctl |
| 03:59.52 | fiberchunks | well, that's what I partly mean with ATI and AMD deciding (hopefully) to do the right thing when it comes to drivers -- so the community can work on them as well |
| 03:59.53 | ``Erik | whcih is not the case for, y'knwo, EVERY REAL OS |
| 04:00.00 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 04:00.17 | ``Erik | so nvidia's drivers behavior of assuming reported ioctl addy is both wired and real... that's wrong |
| 04:01.58 | ``Erik | http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=89042 |
| 04:04.17 | fiberchunks | so that's a linux kernel issue and an nvidia driver issue then |
| 04:05.48 | ``Erik | this was over 6 years ago.. |
| 04:06.04 | fiberchunks | fancy -- good to see response time is good ;) |
| 04:06.38 | fiberchunks | also good to see that I can't properly read anything (like dates and stuff ) |
| 04:06.43 | ``Erik | :) |
| 04:09.08 | ``Erik | was a long time ago |
| 04:09.17 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=72 was the fallout |
| 04:09.19 | ``Erik | *grouse* |
| 04:10.03 | ``Erik | damn apple finds good bands to use on their commercials O.o |
| 04:10.41 | louipc | I don't think I've heard a single metal band yet |
| 04:11.11 | fiberchunks | you know, I love their products, but christ does itunes for the pc suck, which i'm really surprised about |
| 04:11.17 | fiberchunks | or maybe I shouldn't be |
| 04:11.53 | brlcad | they're not used to coding software on top of steaming piles ;) |
| 04:12.00 | fiberchunks | hehe |
| 04:12.03 | ``Erik | hehhee |
| 04:13.14 | fiberchunks | what's the going rate these days for a 17" macbook pro? |
| 04:13.21 | ``Erik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N3OrZzPud8 |
| 04:14.00 | fiberchunks | oof, nevermind -- too rich for me right now |
| 04:14.22 | brlcad | don't forget the blessed educational or gov't discounts ;) |
| 04:14.33 | brlcad | don't even need to prove it *ahem* |
| 04:14.35 | fiberchunks | oooo, I do have a student too :) |
| 04:14.46 | fiberchunks | what's the discount? |
| 04:14.51 | brlcad | usually about 10% |
| 04:14.58 | fiberchunks | sweet |
| 04:22.04 | ``Erik | wow, they really suck live |
| 04:22.30 | ``Erik | the instruments are spot on, but the vocs, geez |
| 04:23.33 | louipc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28GaKoCuobU |
| 04:24.20 | ``Erik | strat++ |
| 04:26.20 | louipc | \m/ |
| 04:26.57 | louipc | man I can't wait until march |
| 04:27.11 | louipc | I'll be seeing them |
| 04:27.17 | ``Erik | back in hs, my buddies were big into iron maiden and judas priest... wasn't so much myself |
| 04:27.37 | fiberchunks | oh yeah man, eddie and the priest |
| 04:27.42 | fiberchunks | awesome stuff |
| 04:28.24 | ``Erik | I got more into old school ac/dc, metallica, ... |
| 04:28.40 | ``Erik | bon scott, yo! |
| 04:28.47 | fiberchunks | iron maiden isn't old school? judas priest? dear god man! :) |
| 04:28.54 | louipc | ac/dc is good but it's all the same song haha |
| 04:29.01 | ``Erik | well |
| 04:29.03 | ``Erik | 3 songs |
| 04:29.10 | ``Erik | ... done over... and over...and... over... |
| 04:29.11 | ``Erik | :D |
| 04:29.11 | louipc | old school metallica vs. current metallica? |
| 04:29.14 | ``Erik | :D |
| 04:29.26 | ``Erik | metallica with long hair and promotion of "piracy" |
| 04:29.30 | fiberchunks | current or recent metallica is crap |
| 04:29.34 | ``Erik | jean jackets ands hit |
| 04:29.36 | louipc | yea |
| 04:29.46 | ``Erik | kill 'em all! |
| 04:29.51 | louipc | master of puppets |
| 04:30.04 | ``Erik | last good album they did :( |
| 04:30.11 | ``Erik | if I had a hat, I'd doff it to cliff right now. |
| 04:30.47 | fiberchunks | i prefer good, old fashioned sabbath with the ozman |
| 04:31.10 | ``Erik | yeah, 70's bslack sabbath is good |
| 04:31.12 | ``Erik | um |
| 04:31.19 | ``Erik | the, uh, last ozzya lbum sucked |
| 04:31.26 | ``Erik | um, johnny something? |
| 04:31.30 | ``Erik | johnny blade? |
| 04:31.35 | louipc | yeah I can't completely get into the Dio stuff |
| 04:31.54 | ``Erik | with the pic of the dude flying the plane... that album sucked |
| 04:31.56 | fiberchunks | well, once you reach a certain age, or can't remember precisely where, or who, you are -- it's time to get off the train. I mean really :) |
| 04:31.59 | ``Erik | the ones before kicked butt |
| 04:32.15 | louipc | hehe yea |
| 04:32.19 | ``Erik | and some of ozzies "solo" stuff was awesome |
| 04:32.34 | fiberchunks | randy rhodes FTW |
| 04:32.42 | ``Erik | yeah, randy was good |
| 04:32.51 | ``Erik | another one worth doffing a hat to :( |
| 04:33.03 | fiberchunks | black label society is kick ass as well (thinking of ozzy guitarists) |
| 04:33.31 | ``Erik | since we're on a grim rode, dimebag, mentiond bon scott and cliff, ... |
| 04:33.34 | ``Erik | :( |
| 04:33.49 | fiberchunks | only the shitkickers die young |
| 04:34.04 | louipc | chuck shuldiner \m/ |
| 04:34.30 | fiberchunks | lemme see, jimi, stevie ray, john bonham (my personal drum idol), etc etc |
| 04:34.39 | ``Erik | stevei's still alive |
| 04:34.53 | fiberchunks | 'scuse me? |
| 04:34.57 | ``Erik | I though |
| 04:34.59 | louipc | no he aint |
| 04:35.02 | ``Erik | doh |
| 04:35.08 | fiberchunks | no, stevie ray vaughn is very very mort |
| 04:35.21 | ``Erik | oh damn, 17 years ago |
| 04:35.36 | louipc | buddy guy is still alive :P |
| 04:36.01 | ``Erik | wow, heh |
| 04:36.04 | ``Erik | um |
| 04:36.16 | ``Erik | layne staley, kurt cobain, ... |
| 04:36.33 | fiberchunks | i dont' know what it is the past couple of years, but I've really been getting into bluegrass of all things |
| 04:37.03 | ``Erik | I've gotten heavy into blues and bubblegum the last few years... |
| 04:37.54 | ``Erik | always been a fan of triphop, though :D but metal and hard rock are what I've been up on since a kid |
| 04:38.27 | fiberchunks | ditto that -- I was and still am into trance -- can't really stand rap / hip-hop except for tech nine |
| 04:38.38 | fiberchunks | although my fiancee loves rap |
| 04:38.40 | fiberchunks | :\ |
| 04:38.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 04:43.45 | fiberchunks | gotta go to bed, take it easy |
| 05:11.25 | brlcad | good to see the chunk man up and about, hadn't talked to him in months |
| 06:04.48 | yukonbob | nice nickname "The Chunk Man" |
| 06:07.01 | brlcad | hehe |
| 06:07.13 | brlcad | he fits his namesake pretty well |
| 06:14.16 | brlcad | yukonbob: if it's possible to get a copy of that newhub model, I'd like to investigate why four of the pixels are wrong |
| 06:15.53 | brlcad | at least, four that seem wrong -- can't say that they are without seeing the model and walking the specific ray through the model |
| 06:17.03 | brlcad | it's on a primitive that doesn't have any known problems for that shape, so it's definitely worth investigating |
| 06:35.51 | yukonbob | ya -- np. |
| 06:36.37 | yukonbob | are you looking at interior of middle body? |
| 06:36.49 | yukonbob | hint: I doubt I knew about 'pipe' at that time... |
| 06:41.36 | yukonbob | brlcad: drop me note when ready -- I'll be in/out of irc tonight till I go to sleep, then here again tmo... |
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| 09:41.57 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/vls.c): |
| 09:41.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: protect the vararg function declaration in bu.h with the same defines as used in the definition in libbu/vls.c |
| 09:42.02 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: remove redundant declaration in libbu/vls.c |
| 09:44.22 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add fchmod.c (according to libbu/Makefile.am) |
| 09:52.13 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: |
| 09:52.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: It is hard to decide in db_close if bu_close_mapped_file should be called or not: |
| 09:52.18 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: db_open calls bu_open_mapped_file, db_clone_dbi does not. |
| 09:52.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: Now, db_open calls bu_close_mapped_file if it is a re-use of a previously mapped file. |
| 12:06.35 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (48 files in 48 dirs): Initial check-in. |
| 12:42.46 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Only include windows.h for btclsh on Windows. |
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| 15:48.36 | DEFCON | hi all |
| 15:48.52 | DEFCON | Maloeran are u here |
| 15:50.05 | *** join/#brlcad Blue_D (n=bluedolf@131.143-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) | |
| 15:50.17 | Defcon | hi Blue_D |
| 15:51.45 | Blue_D | Hey DEFCON |
| 15:52.26 | brlcad | eventually |
| 15:53.55 | Defcon | i love the render of the tank btw |
| 16:16.02 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large)/ (56 files): remove duplicate theme, src/tclscrtips/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large seems to be a complete copy plus later updates, and it's actually included in the dist (this one is not) |
| 16:22.21 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: No longer need SEARCH_ARCHER. |
| 17:33.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Modify default values for BRLCAD_ROOT and BRLCAD_DATA. |
| 17:33.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: move socket and nsl lib stuff to PKG_LIBS (fix for solaris) |
| 17:40.05 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: carry the solaris fixes over from STABLE |
| 18:47.28 | yukonbob | brlcad: drop me a line when you're ready for that file |
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| 21:15.52 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: Initialize dbip->dbi_fd in db_open() to -1. |
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| 22:34.14 | starseeker | but apparently not as a tarball... |
| 22:35.34 | starseeker | Hehe - if someone does get this running we could try running BRL-CAD on it again ;-) |
| 22:36.09 | yukonbob | starseeker: apparently there are no machines available anymore that run this code natively... |
| 22:37.48 | starseeker | emulator time ;-) |
| 22:54.57 | starseeker | Come to think of it, Macsyma at MIT was on Multics at one point... I may still have that manual around here somewhere... |
| 22:56.01 | ``Erik | which emu will be the first to support it? |
| 22:56.30 | ``Erik | simh might be a serious contendor... but bochs and qemu are both pretty active and have both splayed out into lots of arch's |
| 22:57.21 | starseeker | I think http://orangesquid.net/projects/ge635/ is working on it... |
| 22:57.38 | starseeker | Apparently some of the hardware IO setups for Multics were... complex |
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| 22:58.52 | starseeker | I wonder if a modernized Multics would still be a viable operating system contender |
| 23:01.27 | louipc | qemu is probably better |
| 23:01.29 | ``Erik | some of the hardware i/o setups for unix were complex, too |
| 23:03.00 | yukonbob | ``Erik: you in same office as brlcad ? |
| 23:06.10 | ``Erik | same building, different room |
| 23:10.02 | yukonbob | or so that if we want him in IRC, he gets a shock. |
| 23:13.30 | starseeker | Hehe |
| 23:18.47 | ``Erik | hum |
| 23:18.53 | ``Erik | shocking brlcad... that could be fun :D |
| 23:33.44 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 23:48.54 | brlcad | my other irc client actually rings a loud bell whenever I'm messaged |
| 23:49.02 | brlcad | but i've not used that in a while |
| 23:50.18 | PrezKennedy | that would drive me nuts |
| 23:52.02 | ``Erik | brlcad, on bz in my home dir, get bike.g, for yukonbobs issue |
| 23:56.19 | *** join/#brlcad cad70 (n=5384dcba@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 23:56.42 | brlcad | got it |
| 23:57.38 | ``Erik | "hubcomb" is where the artifacting shows up, according to him... *shrug8 I'm still building, so I'll let him jabber to ya *shrug* :D |
| 23:58.41 | ``Erik | bleh, screw it |
| 23:58.41 | ``Erik | version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.4, need 8.5 |
| 23:58.53 | ``Erik | and I'm home and dorking with os stuff |
| 00:02.18 | ``Erik | the tcl error? or the dorking with os stuff error? :D |
| 00:02.30 | ``Erik | I freakin' hate i386 irq/isr/gdt crap |
| 00:02.37 | ``Erik | and amd64 has exactly the same shit |
| 00:06.44 | brlcad | tcl |
| 01:03.54 | starseeker | brlcad: still on? |
| 01:04.24 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 01:05.19 | starseeker | yukonbob: Heh - our timing isn't so hot, or he's darn good a dodging ;-) |
| 01:07.32 | brlcad | yes |
| 01:07.56 | brlcad | too much code, too little time |
| 01:09.46 | yukonbob | :) |
| 01:10.35 | yukonbob | brlcad: did ``Erik get you that file/info |
| 01:11.20 | brlcad | the .g file, yes |
| 01:14.43 | brlcad | is it full_hub? |
| 01:15.46 | yukonbob | hubcomb |
| 01:16.33 | ``Erik | debugger nirt run on the 'bad' rays? |
| 01:17.02 | yukonbob | seems to be size-dependant (if I'm seeing what I think you're seeing)... so either use a big framebuffer, or use 2048 or so for manual rt... |
| 01:18.29 | brlcad | it is |
| 01:18.35 | brlcad | related to tolerance and root solving |
| 01:18.59 | yukonbob | floating point issue? (/me is totally guessing) |
| 01:19.15 | brlcad | could be as simple as a bad normal, but can't say for certain without actual testing |
| 01:19.23 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:19.36 | ``Erik | what all pushes the root solver? the torus is a biggie |
| 01:20.23 | ``Erik | but the issues with those mostly seem when the normal is near orthogenal to the primary |
| 01:20.25 | yukonbob | there are ~38 (maybe 78) tori in that model iirc |
| 01:21.08 | brlcad | I don't doubt that the odd normals are tolerance related |
| 01:21.43 | brlcad | the odd one are the specs on the tgc |
| 01:21.57 | brlcad | those are the ones that are worth investigating |
| 01:22.37 | yukonbob | tgc == [rcc + constraints]? |
| 01:22.46 | ``Erik | truncated cone |
| 01:22.58 | ``Erik | an rcc a form of tgc |
| 01:23.03 | yukonbob | trunc cone == trc. |
| 01:23.03 | ``Erik | iirc |
| 01:23.07 | ``Erik | er |
| 01:23.20 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't model, so loses those quick... :D |
| 01:23.29 | ``Erik | also; vodka good :D so don't give me shit |
| 01:23.39 | brlcad | truncated generalized cone |
| 01:23.48 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 01:23.53 | ``Erik | trc is truncated right cone? |
| 01:23.53 | yukonbob | that hub body == diff of rcc's -- anyway, is all obvious w/ the .g, and /me trusts you'll find something interesting... |
| 01:23.53 | brlcad | s/generalized/general/ |
| 01:23.59 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:24.00 | ``Erik | twingy, isst! |
| 01:24.06 | brlcad | rcc is a right circular cylinder |
| 01:24.09 | Twingy | pisst! |
| 01:24.11 | ``Erik | ok, so trc is a form of tgc |
| 01:24.20 | brlcad | trc and rcc both |
| 01:24.22 | Twingy | I sent a file and instructions to ed today |
| 01:24.26 | ``Erik | ok |
| 01:24.32 | brlcad | all of the conics are a tgc |
| 01:24.45 | ``Erik | I was in his office this morning, he called you then jay-lo to get isst and rvis sorted |
| 01:25.10 | brlcad | just like all of the arbs are arb8's |
| 01:25.16 | Twingy | I've been squeezing out circuit boards like a weathered north vietnamese child labor shop |
| 01:26.20 | yukonbob | re: trc and rcc == tgc; interesting... |
| 01:26.45 | yukonbob | tec + rec, too? |
| 01:27.29 | brlcad | they go through different numerics, and are stored with the knowledge that they are that specific type of tgc |
| 01:27.43 | ``Erik | yeah, uh |
| 01:27.46 | brlcad | so saying they're the same really just means that their storage format is that of a tgc |
| 01:27.59 | yukonbob | thx ``Erik |
| 01:28.04 | ``Erik | I have to go in the next day or to, heh... I'm trying an experiement |
| 01:28.21 | ``Erik | instead of buying 6 weeks worth of food and living out of the freezer, I'm trying to buy minimally and go once a week |
| 01:28.35 | brlcad | rcc's are considerably faster to evaluate than an arbitrary tgc, for example (almost an order), given the types of roots possible |
| 01:28.38 | ``Erik | I'm hoping it'll get me into eating more fresh vegetables and get away from the frozen foods |
| 01:29.18 | Twingy | I often go to the grocery store twice a week |
| 01:29.48 | ``Erik | I was doing it once every 6 weeks... |
| 01:29.52 | yukonbob | ! |
| 01:29.59 | starseeker | my freezer isn't that big |
| 01:30.29 | yukonbob | reminds me of Microserfs, where people lock themselves in their offices and only eat flat food; food that can be slid under the door... |
| 01:30.38 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:31.23 | ``Erik | heh, ziplock fotw |
| 01:31.27 | ``Erik | ftw |
| 01:31.35 | starseeker | Actually, ``Erik you might know this... since brlcad's busy - Has there ever been an effort to have the itcl/itk upstream devs merge in the brlcad patches to those libraries? |
| 01:31.43 | ``Erik | um |
| 01:31.50 | ``Erik | brlcad patches? |
| 01:32.01 | starseeker | BRL-CAD patches itcl/itk |
| 01:32.05 | ``Erik | well |
| 01:32.17 | ``Erik | bob patched itcl to cope with being included in a foreign build system |
| 01:32.18 | ``Erik | but, uh |
| 01:32.22 | ``Erik | otherwise, tehy're very stock |
| 01:32.53 | ``Erik | the only modification right now in HEAD is, um, including <brlcad_config.h> I think |
| 01:33.15 | ``Erik | otherwise, I broke stuff really good last week when I imported new tcl, tk, itcl, and itk |
| 01:33.25 | starseeker | My system installs don't expose Itcl_Init for some reason |
| 01:33.47 | ``Erik | erm, odd |
| 01:34.25 | ``Erik | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ |
| 01:34.33 | ``Erik | but I don't use system itcl |
| 01:34.35 | ``Erik | not yet |
| 01:35.25 | starseeker | There we go http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m66c7d311 |
| 01:36.28 | starseeker | Personally I don't have a problem with BRL-CAD building it's own libs, but it seems to send the Gentoo devs into a tailspin - every time I interact with them they "suggest" that using the system libs is the way to go... |
| 01:42.59 | ``Erik | when they support (actively) tcl 8.5b1, tk 8.5b1, itcl3.4 and itk 3.4, it's all good. |
| 01:43.08 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:43.12 | starseeker | Heh |
| 01:46.53 | ``Erik | ... ayup... |
| 01:47.02 | ``Erik | and I'm PRETTY sure they they don't offer itcl 3.4 |
| 01:47.04 | ``Erik | masked or not. |
| 01:47.20 | ``Erik | given that I imported stuff from the cvs head... |
| 01:47.24 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:47.28 | starseeker | hehe |
| 01:48.33 | starseeker | They also suggested reducing the user-visible flags - is there any condition under which a "normal" user would NOT want to optimize the build? |
| 01:48.52 | ``Erik | um |
| 01:48.53 | ``Erik | no |
| 01:48.57 | starseeker | OK :-) |
| 01:49.15 | starseeker | aaaand a nother one bites the dust... |
| 01:49.16 | ``Erik | supposedly, it causes crashes on sparc and ppc on fbsd |
| 01:49.31 | ``Erik | or, it did at one point |
| 01:49.53 | ``Erik | I lack sparc and ppc fbsd boxen, so I undid the de-optimize fu in the port... and will wait for bug reports |
| 01:50.18 | starseeker | That should do it :-) |
| 01:51.01 | ``Erik | now I currenlty don't have adrt/rise enabled and that has been a request from users |
| 01:51.05 | ``Erik | mostly pedre |
| 01:51.24 | ``Erik | but it adds python and sdl as deps |
| 01:51.58 | ``Erik | <-- cranks his ui size way down |
| 01:52.16 | ``Erik | woops |
| 01:52.19 | Twingy | python and sdl is the ancient one |
| 01:52.23 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:52.24 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 01:52.25 | ``Erik | uh |
| 01:52.30 | ``Erik | get me mor erecent code. |
| 01:52.30 | ``Erik | boy. |
| 01:52.39 | Twingy | I told you I just send ed the code |
| 01:53.07 | ``Erik | are the docs up to date, so'z dumb old coder like me can pick it up? |
| 01:54.09 | ``Erik | <-- half expecting a letter from legal in the next few days, skipped lunch to leave early (after 9hrclock time), and the evil one saw me drive off. |
| 01:54.20 | ``Erik | so I'm a'drinkin' and not a'carin' |
| 01:56.07 | Twingy | legal? are you in trouble? :) |
| 01:56.54 | ``Erik | prasad got a legal notice before any supervisor interjection |
| 01:57.24 | ``Erik | actually, no, he got it immediately after, but obviously the legal avenue was pursued before any confrontation at the local mgmt level |
| 01:57.43 | ``Erik | and I don't think it learnes. |
| 01:58.42 | ``Erik | damn my unique automobile |
| 02:23.38 | brlcad | yukonbob: that'd work for me.. pizza :) |
| 02:24.03 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, we're not modding incr (at least any more) |
| 02:24.19 | starseeker | :-) |
| 02:24.23 | brlcad | other than to allow it to work uninstalled, which is specific to our source layout |
| 02:24.40 | starseeker | Would upstream incorporate that change? |
| 02:26.26 | brlcad | no no, it refers specifically to where we know it can find sources |
| 02:26.49 | brlcad | merely for the sake of being able to run binaries without actually installing |
| 02:27.07 | brlcad | and still have them find all of the resources they expect |
| 02:27.51 | brlcad | the same effect is achieved normally by setting the plethora of env vars (ITCL_LIBRARY, etc) |
| 02:28.44 | starseeker | Ah. So using a system install is possible if the env vars are used? |
| 02:28.48 | brlcad | ideally --disable-all will work if/when the proper deps are declared and if/when all of the configure tests are solid |
| 02:29.00 | brlcad | huh? |
| 02:29.09 | brlcad | using a system install is supposed to be possible regardless |
| 02:29.16 | starseeker | er, sorry. :-) |
| 02:29.19 | brlcad | i'm referring to running binaries without ever installing anything |
| 02:29.29 | *** join/#brlcad fiberchunks (n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) | |
| 02:29.43 | brlcad | if they were purely all system installed libs, then there's no problem |
| 02:30.03 | brlcad | because at run-time, everything is where it expects it already (they're already installed) |
| 02:30.14 | starseeker | Ah, of course |
| 02:30.20 | brlcad | i'm talking about having one of the tcl component being used, but NOT yet installed |
| 02:30.42 | brlcad | like say you use a system tcl, but were letting incrtcl compile from our sources |
| 02:31.12 | brlcad | then a binary that uses itcl, tries a package require Itcl, etc will fail |
| 02:31.17 | brlcad | until you install it |
| 02:31.42 | starseeker | Oh, got it |
| 02:31.53 | brlcad | since we know where to find those resources even before it's installed, we just make the mod that makes it look in our source tree before giving up |
| 02:31.59 | fiberchunks | evening |
| 02:32.02 | brlcad | howdy fiberchunks |
| 02:32.13 | brlcad | two days in a row, what is the world coming to! |
| 02:32.22 | fiberchunks | no doubt -- call guinness :) |
| 02:32.33 | fiberchunks | ...cause I need a beer |
| 02:33.03 | brlcad | ~beer fiberchunks |
| 02:33.04 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a excellent Piraat for fiberchunks |
| 02:33.10 | fiberchunks | danke |
| 02:35.36 | brlcad | ``Erik: you noticed that the new tcl isn't getting our build flags any more? |
| 02:35.57 | brlcad | since b2 update afaict |
| 02:36.19 | brlcad | starseeker: for that configure log, is there a system incrtcl already installed? |
| 02:36.26 | brlcad | i.e. did it fail to detect |
| 02:36.38 | starseeker | Should be - itcl and itk are installed... |
| 02:36.39 | brlcad | or is the abort correct |
| 02:36.50 | starseeker | hang on, let me make sure... |
| 02:36.56 | brlcad | should see why the test failed |
| 02:37.10 | brlcad | might be something as simple as needing some -lz or something |
| 02:37.22 | starseeker | I have itcl-3.3 and itk-3.3 installed using the portage system |
| 02:37.38 | starseeker | In /usr/lib/itcl3.3 |
| 02:37.40 | brlcad | look in config.log for Itcl_Init |
| 02:38.04 | brlcad | those are the data resources, the libs are "somewhere" else |
| 02:38.19 | starseeker | configure:30575: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.4 |
| 02:38.39 | starseeker | configure:30639: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl34 |
| 02:38.47 | starseeker | configure:30703: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.3 |
| 02:38.57 | starseeker | that should be it... |
| 02:39.03 | brlcad | huh? |
| 02:39.08 | starseeker | version 3.3 |
| 02:39.18 | starseeker | letsee here... |
| 02:39.20 | brlcad | nah nah, there is massive sections in config.log related to those tests |
| 02:39.35 | starseeker | Oh, want me to pastebin all of it? |
| 02:39.48 | brlcad | all of what? |
| 02:39.56 | starseeker | that section of config.log |
| 02:40.00 | brlcad | i want to see all of just one of the tests that should have succeeded |
| 02:40.12 | brlcad | like the -litcl3.3 test |
| 02:40.30 | brlcad | presuming you have a libitcl3.3.so |
| 02:40.49 | starseeker | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m575b452b |
| 02:41.19 | brlcad | locate libitcl |
| 02:41.37 | brlcad | that one at least correctly "failed" |
| 02:41.40 | starseeker | I don't have locate on this box, one sec... |
| 02:41.47 | brlcad | /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -litcl3.3 |
| 02:42.19 | brlcad | don't have locate o.O |
| 02:42.42 | starseeker | /usr/lib/itcl3.3/libitcl3.3.so is the file in question... |
| 02:44.20 | brlcad | wow |
| 02:44.29 | brlcad | that's .. |
| 02:44.30 | brlcad | special |
| 02:45.00 | starseeker | The location or not having locate? |
| 02:45.06 | brlcad | yes :) |
| 02:45.09 | starseeker | Hehe |
| 02:45.14 | brlcad | but the location in particular |
| 02:45.26 | brlcad | how is an app that uses libitcl supposed to link against it? |
| 02:45.27 | starseeker | That's where the ebuild stuck it - let me check the ebuild... |
| 02:45.35 | brlcad | without manually adding that ld path |
| 02:45.47 | brlcad | where is libtcl installed? |
| 02:46.21 | starseeker | /usr/lib/tcl8.4 |
| 02:46.34 | brlcad | inside that dir? |
| 02:46.41 | starseeker | with /usr/lib having libtcl.so, libtcl8.4.so |
| 02:46.43 | starseeker | yes |
| 02:46.45 | brlcad | ahh |
| 02:46.56 | brlcad | it has symlinks into it in /usr/lib |
| 02:47.03 | brlcad | *that* makes sense |
| 02:47.14 | ``Erik | brlcad: no... remind me at lunch tomorrow :D |
| 02:47.20 | brlcad | just throwing libs into a dir with no ref to them doesn't |
| 02:47.26 | starseeker | It would appear that libitcl does not |
| 02:47.36 | starseeker | have anything in /usr/lib |
| 02:47.48 | ``Erik | itcl 3.3 does not play well with tcl 8.5b1 |
| 02:48.08 | starseeker | Well, my system tcl is 8.4 |
| 02:48.41 | brlcad | if you run bwish and package require Itcl, what does it do? |
| 02:48.46 | brlcad | s/bwish/wish/ |
| 02:48.50 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: since our build flags aren't getting passed through to tcl for some reason (which isn't all that bad so far), just reference our common.h directly |
| 02:49.03 | ``Erik | ok |
| 02:49.12 | ``Erik | I guess you don't need to remind me at lunch |
| 02:49.13 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 02:49.14 | starseeker | cyapp@localhost /usr/portage $ wish |
| 02:49.14 | starseeker | package require % Itcl |
| 02:49.15 | starseeker | 3.3 |
| 02:49.15 | starseeker | % |
| 02:49.23 | starseeker | and a window pops up after wish |
| 02:49.56 | brlcad | that takes care of the error .. not sure we care if other flags aren't passed -- i'd gather it might be a bigger problem on a non-gcc platform |
| 02:50.10 | brlcad | yeah, the window is default wish behavior, that's just tk |
| 02:50.16 | starseeker | right |
| 02:50.20 | brlcad | i wonder how wish is finding itcl |
| 02:50.28 | brlcad | set auto_path |
| 02:50.40 | brlcad | what does that report? |
| 02:51.13 | starseeker | /usr/lib/tcl8.4 /usr/lib /usr/lib/tk8.4 |
| 02:51.30 | brlcad | huh |
| 02:52.19 | brlcad | is itcl.tcl in tcl8.4 or itcl3.3 dir? |
| 02:52.58 | brlcad | and what does ldd `which wish` report? |
| 02:53.13 | starseeker | /usr/lib/itcl3.3/itcl.tcl |
| 02:54.01 | starseeker | no sign of itcl |
| 02:54.22 | starseeker | let me pastebin the result... |
| 02:54.48 | starseeker | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7549ba41 |
| 02:55.36 | starseeker | Ah - there is an itclConfig.sh file in /usr/lib |
| 02:56.32 | starseeker | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m21cfb12e |
| 02:56.39 | starseeker | I'll bet that's it |
| 02:57.11 | starseeker | Anybody else have that file in /usr/lib? |
| 02:57.28 | brlcad | that'd be one way to find the lib |
| 02:57.49 | brlcad | but I doubt still not what wish is using |
| 03:02.42 | starseeker | The only thing I see in any generic file is /usr/include has itcl and itk .h files |
| 03:03.40 | brlcad | ah well, suppose it doesn't matter too much .. I can use the config script |
| 03:03.47 | starseeker | and as far as I can tell, the portage package system isn't doing any special magic when it is doing the installs... |
| 03:04.10 | starseeker | Anybody else got a Gentoo system on the list? |
| 03:10.47 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: finding /usr/lib/itcl3.3 in portage -- I bet the build system must setup "default" paths/ENV vars to get the portage system to work, and require flags to "manually" build against it -- my 3rd party libs/tools are /usr/pkg/[blah] -- which makes total sense for this system... |
| 03:11.55 | starseeker | What does it mean when you get a "Cannot allocate memory" error in a cvs checkout??? |
| 03:13.35 | yukonbob | brlcad: iirc, tcls autopath searches dirs and all subdirs |
| 03:14.01 | starseeker | brlcad: Thanks for taking the time to work on this :-) |
| 03:17.12 | yukonbob | ...not to mention the *Config.sh for leading tcl around to find it's bits/self... though like ``Erik said, nobody really likes it -- it's a bit of an ongoing issue finding the best way to have tcl know what system it's on, introspect about itself, etc. |
| 03:28.19 | brlcad | yukonbob: really? didn't think it was recursive |
| 03:28.29 | brlcad | but that would explain finding itcl |
| 03:29.06 | brlcad | and I still didn't think the config scripts were used by anything at run-time |
| 03:29.27 | brlcad | just part of tea build interface |
| 03:31.44 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: Config -- you may well be correct there -- I'm _not_ an expert in this case -- and I think that anybody who _is_ an expert wishes for something better ;) |
| 03:32.34 | yukonbob | (from what I glean from conversations with & between devs.) |
| 03:50.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/Makefile.am: fix dist, apparently no longer a mac dir here? |
| 03:53.43 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: wrong ver file in dist |
| 03:56.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: fix dist, there is no brlcad dir |
| 05:36.09 | brlcad | awshome .. now detects files missing from the dist in a useful manner |
| 05:38.34 | yukonbob | :) -- hey (only curious here, not pushing), did you see what is responsible for the errant pixels in the hub? |
| 06:08.33 | brlcad | oh heck no, that'll take a quite while to investigate |
| 06:09.06 | brlcad | but I was able to reproduce it, so that's good/bad |
| 06:11.58 | brlcad | I also don't have the right build setup at the moment to dive into it, but thanks for getting the model over -- it's in the queue to investigate |
| 06:29.06 | yukonbob | :) |
| 06:30.00 | yukonbob | if there's something I can do here, lemme know |
| 06:48.06 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/Makefile.loc: pointless and out-of-date old build file removed |
| 06:49.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add missing remapid manual page to the install/dist |
| 06:52.04 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/Makefile.loc fbed/Makefile.loc libbn/Makefile.loc): more obsolete and out-of-date old build files, now removed |
| 06:58.23 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: |
| 06:58.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: semaphore protect the crash report being generated on bomb so that only one |
| 06:58.27 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: thread/process is writing out to the log file at a time. only allow one of them |
| 06:58.29 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: to write to the file, depending on whether the log file for that process already |
| 06:58.31 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: exists. we use BU_SEM_MAPPEDFILE since that really shouldn't be in use during |
| 06:58.35 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: bombing. |
| 07:05.19 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 07:05.21 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: fixed garbled output during parallel crash reports. if you were on a parallel |
| 07:05.23 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: system with mutiple threads/procs in action when bu_bomb() is invoked, multiple |
| 07:05.25 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: threads/procs ended up writing out to the crash report file. this fix |
| 07:05.27 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: synchronizes the output and removes the garbled interleaving. |
| 07:40.47 | brlcad | yay, all binaries finally uploaded (except windows) |
| 07:41.14 | brlcad | tomorrow hopefully can make all of the announcements |
| 07:56.08 | *** join/#brlcad DEFCON (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) | |
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| 11:51.08 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Initial check-in. |
| 12:11.33 | Defcon | ? what? |
| 12:19.37 | brlcad | Defcon: ? |
| 12:22.02 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: there is that brlcad.sln now.. |
| 12:25.31 | Defcon | yeah |
| 12:25.31 | Defcon | what is CIA-27 saying? |
| 14:18.08 | brlcad | Defcon: CIA-27 shows commits to the BRL-CAD source code repository (i.e. actual changes to the code) as they happen |
| 14:19.16 | Defcon | that is sweet |
| 14:19.20 | brlcad | so there it was saying that bob1961 (one of the brl-cad developers) made a change, namely that he added the misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln visual studio build file |
| 14:19.44 | Defcon | is it made in visual studio? |
| 14:19.56 | brlcad | brl-cad is cross-platform |
| 14:20.00 | brlcad | extensively |
| 14:20.03 | Defcon | nice |
| 14:20.21 | Defcon | but if you guys are open source |
| 14:20.37 | Defcon | who pays for the visual studio licence |
| 14:21.07 | brlcad | just because we're open source doesn't mean we're broke and waiting for hand-outs :) |
| 14:21.25 | brlcad | different for each dev/contributor |
| 14:22.08 | Defcon | ohw :) |
| 14:22.11 | brlcad | I buy what I need, for example, in addition to the slew of open source software I use and work on |
| 14:22.53 | Defcon | are you a C programmer? |
| 14:23.01 | brlcad | I have windows and studio but rarely use them myself, only from time to time for brl-cad |
| 14:23.14 | brlcad | most of the time, I use my macs, bsd, and linux |
| 14:23.20 | Defcon | nice |
| 14:23.39 | Defcon | btw: who are u, 'cause i think brlcad can't speak for itselves |
| 14:23.39 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:23.49 | ``Erik | he is brlcad |
| 14:23.59 | Defcon | brlcad is an app |
| 14:24.00 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:24.17 | ``Erik | and defcon is a military state system |
| 14:24.32 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:24.40 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:24.43 | Defcon | indeed |
| 14:24.50 | Defcon | from the us |
| 14:24.57 | Defcon | i'm from Belgium |
| 14:25.11 | Defcon | and a fellow Developper, not a system :) |
| 14:25.41 | ``Erik | well, you can be a defense condition, and brlcad can be an app, it's all good :D |
| 14:25.45 | brlcad | Defcon: "brl-cad" is an app, "brlcad" is me :) |
| 14:25.51 | ``Erik | I thought it was BRL-CAD |
| 14:25.52 | Defcon | haha ok |
| 14:25.57 | brlcad | that too |
| 14:26.07 | Defcon | yeah, that's more impressive |
| 14:26.07 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:26.25 | Defcon | man i love the Stryker ICV w/ Slat Armor rendered with ADRT/RISE render |
| 14:26.45 | brlcad | Twingy put that one together |
| 14:26.50 | brlcad | pretty slick, eh? |
| 14:26.59 | ``Erik | I think that took a week or two on an 18 core mini-cluster |
| 14:27.14 | Defcon | very nice |
| 14:27.30 | Defcon | ``Erik to render? |
| 14:27.31 | ``Erik | has all the goodies turned on, depth of field, hypersampling, etc |
| 14:28.06 | brlcad | Defcon: so you're a developer? |
| 14:28.11 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 14:28.12 | ``Erik | 5 days |
| 14:28.15 | ``Erik | it's on the image |
| 14:28.28 | Defcon | yeah |
| 14:28.37 | Defcon | indeed brlcad |
| 14:28.38 | ``Erik | um, every blade of grass and leaf is modelled |
| 14:28.41 | brlcad | then welcome :) |
| 14:28.46 | Defcon | ty :) |
| 14:28.55 | ``Erik | there are no textures, imposters, or anything |
| 14:28.59 | brlcad | lemme know where we can get you hacking and contributing ;) |
| 14:29.13 | Defcon | hacking..? :D |
| 14:29.24 | brlcad | it's a big package, but don't let it be daunting -- feel free to ask questions ;) |
| 14:29.33 | brlcad | hacking == developing |
| 14:29.37 | Defcon | ohw :) |
| 14:29.48 | Defcon | i'm an vb / asp.net programmer |
| 14:30.13 | Defcon | so.. i dunno if i can add something to your app |
| 14:30.13 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:30.43 | brlcad | hey, most languages if you know them well translate to other languages without too much effort |
| 14:30.45 | Defcon | BRL-CAD is way to advanced for me |
| 14:31.57 | ``Erik | <-- thinks one of the biggest ways to improve your coding skill is to honestly learn new languages and paradigms |
| 14:32.06 | brlcad | Defcon: so then what's your interest? |
| 14:32.30 | Defcon | everything that has to do something with coding :) |
| 14:32.37 | brlcad | it's too big to qualitatively say that the *whole* thing is too advanced for you :) |
| 14:32.45 | ``Erik | and one of the neater ways to do that might be to grab some tickle and write modelling scripts, very quick to get very visual results |
| 14:32.53 | ``Erik | tcl |
| 14:33.02 | Defcon | tcl? |
| 14:33.12 | ``Erik | the scripting language we're using |
| 14:33.27 | ``Erik | http://www.tcl.tk |
| 14:33.40 | Defcon | ah |
| 14:33.41 | brlcad | or even write some procedural geometry stuff in VB for that matter |
| 14:34.08 | brlcad | just hook up to the brl-cad dll's like you would for any language in vb |
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| 14:34.23 | Defcon | yeah |
| 14:34.29 | ``Erik | hm, vb stuff tends not to work so well on mac, freebsd, openbsd, linux, irix, solaris, ... |
| 14:34.30 | Defcon | i know how to use dll's |
| 14:34.35 | Defcon | might be a start |
| 14:35.04 | ``Erik | ruby might be sexier :D |
| 14:35.11 | brlcad | there are tons of small example programs in src/proc-db (in C) and src/mk for making procedural geometry, but it helps if you kinda had some sort of goal in mind |
| 14:35.54 | Defcon | my goal now is to find a goal |
| 14:35.55 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:36.12 | Defcon | that's one reason i'm here |
| 14:36.41 | brlcad | lots of potential goals here: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 14:37.13 | brlcad | though VB won't help with most of them |
| 14:37.40 | Defcon | hmm |
| 14:37.41 | Defcon | Web Work |
| 14:38.13 | brlcad | do you know anything other than asp? |
| 14:38.19 | Defcon | vb :) |
| 14:38.22 | Defcon | sql server |
| 14:38.26 | Defcon | .. |
| 14:38.26 | brlcad | or are interested in learning :) |
| 14:38.34 | Defcon | offcourse i am |
| 14:38.35 | brlcad | something like php or ruby or python |
| 14:38.48 | Defcon | why those? |
| 14:39.06 | ``Erik | the web stuff is php on a freebsd server, backed by mysql I think |
| 14:39.20 | Defcon | ohw |
| 14:39.22 | ``Erik | adrt/rise uses some python |
| 14:39.36 | brlcad | mysql or postgres or whatever is needed (but open source) |
| 14:40.10 | Defcon | i have worked a very little bit with php, mysql and apache |
| 14:40.24 | Defcon | but that knowledge is allready gone |
| 14:40.27 | brlcad | and I really have no inclination of installing the fp extensions to apache .. :) |
| 14:40.43 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:41.36 | Defcon | i started leaning C once |
| 14:41.46 | Defcon | via the interwebz |
| 14:41.53 | brlcad | php, ruby, python, perl, lisp, etc, are all easy to set up if they're not set up already |
| 14:41.57 | Defcon | and Maloeran's app/game |
| 14:42.21 | brlcad | some more ideas: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/IDEAS |
| 14:42.28 | ``Erik | his web space thingy? I thought that was all striaght C, wrote his own httpd or something |
| 14:42.45 | Defcon | indeed |
| 14:43.35 | ``Erik | <-- has an urge to learn 'ajax' with a CL backed server chunk lately |
| 14:43.53 | Defcon | i know a bit of ajax |
| 14:44.24 | Defcon | btw: www.ectroverse.com |
| 14:44.34 | Defcon | mal's game is still up and running |
| 14:44.45 | ``Erik | http://www.cliki.net/CL-AJAX <-- something I've been looking at |
| 14:44.46 | Defcon | completely build in C |
| 14:45.07 | Defcon | i do not know Lisp |
| 14:45.09 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:47.18 | Defcon | in mal's sourcecode : void InitHTTP() |
| 14:47.38 | Defcon | so he basicly wrote his own webserver? |
| 14:48.55 | ``Erik | I think he did... *shrug* I d'no, I never saw the code |
| 14:49.21 | ``Erik | webservers are easy to write, I had an assignment to write one at school many years ago |
| 14:49.22 | Defcon | http://www.wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip |
| 14:49.30 | Defcon | really |
| 14:52.29 | Defcon | if it was that easy, i would have made one |
| 14:52.58 | Defcon | btw: what is an .o file? |
| 14:52.59 | ``Erik | heh, yeah, that's a standalone web server |
| 14:53.04 | ``Erik | object |
| 14:53.11 | ``Erik | um, you probably recognize them as .obj |
| 14:53.11 | Defcon | and why isn't that plain text |
| 14:53.12 | Defcon | ohw |
| 14:54.05 | ``Erik | my, the thing isn't threaded and doesn't seem to throw child processes, several people playing at the same time would see delays in loading the page O.o |
| 14:55.03 | Defcon | never had any probs with that.. |
| 14:55.15 | Defcon | .ascx file these days i gues |
| 14:55.19 | Defcon | *guess |
| 14:55.50 | Defcon | the ectroverse server stats: http://shell2.skyberate.net:9120/status |
| 14:56.01 | Defcon | Server program CPU usage ( average ) |
| 14:56.01 | Defcon | Total usage : 0.106 % |
| 14:56.01 | Defcon | In user mode : 0.034 % |
| 14:56.02 | Defcon | In kernel mode : 0.072 % |
| 14:56.59 | Defcon | + the whole game only uses 7mb RAM |
| 14:57.08 | Defcon | on the server |
| 14:57.40 | ``Erik | doesn't change the fact that it's completely serial, if I looked at it with a 300 baud modem, anyone else connecting would have to wait until I finished getting the page before they could get theirs |
| 14:58.05 | Defcon | o'rly.. |
| 14:58.23 | Defcon | hopefully u don't do that :) |
| 14:58.36 | Defcon | btw: how do u see that? |
| 14:58.38 | ``Erik | no, I'll use the 1200 baud modem |
| 14:59.10 | Defcon | ok :) |
| 14:59.11 | ``Erik | the C, it's a simple loop, no threading or forking |
| 14:59.57 | Defcon | hmm |
| 15:00.14 | Defcon | it will take some time for me to understand that |
| 15:00.34 | Defcon | i've been looking at his code since he made it in 2002/2003 |
| 15:01.00 | Defcon | and i still don't understand a line from it |
| 15:01.38 | ``Erik | erm, quit looking a that pile and go write some trivial C programs to start learning the language? :D *duck* |
| 15:02.34 | Defcon | haha yeah |
| 15:02.45 | Defcon | but |
| 15:02.47 | Defcon | :p |
| 15:03.01 | Defcon | how do i start learning C :) |
| 15:03.07 | Defcon | in windows btw :) |
| 15:03.18 | ``Erik | download a free compiler? |
| 15:03.27 | Defcon | u know any good ones? |
| 15:04.09 | ``Erik | I usually grab 'cygwin' when I have to do C on windows, but it emulates a unix-ey environment... mingw32 ummmm, djgpp, msys... |
| 15:04.19 | ``Erik | microsoft offers their cc for free I think (but no ide on it) |
| 15:04.44 | Defcon | ok.. |
| 15:04.47 | ``Erik | the first C I wrote on a winderz computer was using 'pcc' and, um, "ultraedit32" to write it |
| 15:04.52 | Defcon | cygwin, i'll google that |
| 15:05.16 | ``Erik | I think lcc is free and available for windows, ummmm |
| 15:05.35 | Defcon | lcc, pcc, ..? |
| 15:05.39 | Defcon | lol |
| 15:05.50 | ``Erik | 'cc' stands for "C compiler" in this context... |
| 15:06.25 | Defcon | i'll be using Notepad++ in stead of ultraedit32 |
| 15:06.29 | Defcon | will that work? |
| 15:06.54 | ``Erik | as long as it cna product ascii text... |
| 15:07.05 | ``Erik | technically, you could do it using 'word' :) |
| 15:07.41 | Defcon | yeah |
| 15:07.47 | ``Erik | if you like living dangerously, 'gvim' and 'emacs' are both available on windows, they're pretty heavy hitting editors with lots of goodies for programmers |
| 15:08.09 | Defcon | but notepad++ has a C markup check thingie |
| 15:08.21 | Defcon | i like living dangerously, but i'm at work atm |
| 15:08.23 | Defcon | so.. :) |
| 15:08.42 | ``Erik | ooh, irc from work, I'd never do anything like that *cough* O:-) |
| 15:08.48 | Defcon | :D |
| 15:10.19 | Defcon | anyway |
| 15:10.20 | Defcon | bbl |
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| 15:39.59 | brlcad | Defcon: there are plenty of good free compilers for windows -- there's mingw, cygwin, and Dev-C++ as well as Visual Studio Express is even free .. I'd suggest starting with that one with your background, then just writing some simple console applications |
| 15:43.42 | Z80-Boy | free as in beer |
| 15:45.09 | Defcon | i have the Visual Studio Professional |
| 15:45.46 | Defcon | so i'm set to go :) |
| 15:45.48 | Defcon | i think |
| 15:47.07 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I just changed Ronja to use outlined 3D pictures. Now I am recompiling all the pictures this way so when it's finished you can see what it looks like. |
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| 17:12.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (viewhide.c viewxray.c): AmbientIntensity is already declared in optical.h |
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| 18:30.55 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
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| 20:00.18 | prasad_ | howdy |
| 20:00.19 | prasad_ | :) |
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| 20:23.23 | brlcad | howdy prasad_ |
| 20:23.28 | brlcad | ltns |
| 20:28.53 | *** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu) | |
| 20:58.11 | prasad_ | hey hey |
| 21:00.19 | brlcad | how goes it? |
| 21:00.33 | brlcad | knocked up and expecting yet? |
| 21:01.13 | prasad_ | haha nah |
| 21:01.26 | prasad_ | damn wedding reception in a month tho |
| 21:01.28 | prasad_ | pain |
| 21:01.30 | prasad_ | hehe |
| 21:01.44 | prasad_ | how's life at the A-P-G ;) |
| 21:02.04 | brlcad | bout the same as always |
| 21:02.28 | brlcad | some things better, some things worse |
| 21:04.31 | prasad_ | ah so |
| 21:04.43 | prasad_ | m3 still chugging along? |
| 21:05.26 | brlcad | yup yup |
| 21:05.36 | brlcad | even got some fresh blood |
| 21:05.52 | prasad_ | cool cool |
| 21:05.55 | prasad_ | same mgmt? |
| 21:05.57 | ``Erik | oi, prasad |
| 21:06.13 | prasad_ | hey yo |
| 21:06.14 | brlcad | prasad_: as ever, save for acst |
| 21:06.24 | ``Erik | had a going away luncheon for the pm and business analyst today O.o |
| 21:06.33 | prasad_ | whoa |
| 21:06.42 | prasad_ | m3 pm? |
| 21:06.46 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:06.47 | ``Erik | yup |
| 21:06.51 | prasad_ | haha! |
| 21:06.57 | prasad_ | reassigned? |
| 21:07.01 | prasad_ | demoted?? |
| 21:07.06 | prasad_ | *snicker* |
| 21:07.25 | prasad_ | ohh wait |
| 21:08.09 | ``Erik | um, sorta kinda a 'lateral promotion' |
| 21:08.10 | prasad_ | im confusing old pm with new |
| 21:08.10 | prasad_ | doh |
| 21:08.10 | prasad_ | damn.. been a year |
| 21:08.20 | ``Erik | still at the videogame middleware place? vector ui stuff? |
| 21:08.27 | prasad_ | indeed |
| 21:08.37 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877522.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:08.39 | prasad_ | crysis and mass effect |
| 21:08.44 | prasad_ | go get em :P |
| 21:09.04 | ``Erik | dude, wow eats too much of my time already O.o |
| 21:09.13 | ``Erik | I can't be addin' on new gams |
| 21:09.16 | prasad_ | are you serious??? |
| 21:09.17 | prasad_ | hahaha |
| 21:09.22 | prasad_ | never thought u'd cave in |
| 21:09.40 | ``Erik | gf brought the discs over, made me install and try it |
| 21:09.56 | prasad_ | and the addiction spreads |
| 21:09.59 | prasad_ | hehe |
| 21:10.39 | prasad_ | we've got a cpl of wow heads here |
| 21:10.48 | ``Erik | which followed by a group of old friends I talk to on irc jumping into it *sigh* |
| 21:11.29 | prasad_ | what are u upto project wise |
| 21:12.41 | ``Erik | <-- still doing BRL-CAD |
| 21:13.17 | ``Erik | tried to go to cisd, but someone threw 3 tons of red tape on that :/ |
| 21:13.32 | prasad_ | heh by old pm i meant her |
| 21:13.35 | prasad_ | :o |
| 21:13.46 | ``Erik | <-- assumed that |
| 21:14.15 | prasad_ | any ui changes to brlcad? |
| 21:14.18 | prasad_ | or still the same |
| 21:19.03 | starseeker | Sweeet. Ebuild now installs into /usr/lib/brlcad |
| 21:24.58 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:28.35 | dtidrow_work | http://blogs.intel.com/research/2007/10/real_time_raytracing_the_end_o.html - did you guys comment about this back in Oct.? |
| 21:31.07 | ``Erik | probably, the article lacks some details, so it makes it hard to be certain |
| 21:31.48 | ``Erik | intel has a few big raytracing pushes going on, including a couple regular presenters at siggraph *shrug* one would almost think they're serious :) |
| 21:36.22 | prasad_ | u guys get a cluster of ps3s yet? :P |
| 21:39.35 | prasad_ | heh im sure they could |
| 21:47.48 | *** join/#brlcad pH (n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl) | |
| 21:47.51 | *** part/#brlcad pH (n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl) | |
| 22:10.12 | Twingy | hi prasad |
| 22:20.19 | prasad_ | hey justin |
| 22:20.25 | prasad_ | wassup |
| 22:31.21 | prasad_ | some in game screens of crysis if u havent seen em already: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165243 |
| 22:38.41 | Twingy | very nice! |
| 22:39.07 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: yeah, commented and duly yawned on it .. intel has been (rightly) pushing ray-tracing to supplant raster for a couple years now -- the real trick is going to be opengl hooks to (easily) allow it, which is still pretty far off (programmability isn't suficient) |
| 22:39.58 | brlcad | too much of a moving target, and the cpu-based approaches while good aren't nearly even as open as opengl was at its inception (nor as well coordinated) |
| 22:40.53 | brlcad | prasad_: thems rather impressive screenshots |
| 22:41.01 | prasad_ | rastered ;) |
| 22:41.08 | brlcad | yep, very nice |
| 22:41.22 | prasad_ | ~1-2M tris |
| 22:42.10 | brlcad | prasad_: and how many procedural shaders? :) |
| 22:42.11 | prasad_ | to be fair that example isn't really feasible for a game |
| 22:42.23 | prasad_ | maybe in about 2 gfx hw cycles, they'll get good perf |
| 22:42.46 | brlcad | yeah.. 1GB mem use is a bit intense for commodity |
| 22:42.47 | prasad_ | quite a lot, but cryengine's editor is mighty easy to use |
| 22:42.59 | prasad_ | that's RAM usage btw |
| 22:43.05 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-17.dclient.hispeed.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 22:43.05 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 22:43.09 | brlcad | ah, fun |
| 22:43.25 | brlcad | wonder how much tex mem |
| 22:44.01 | prasad_ | id say prolly around 200 |
| 22:45.39 | prasad_ | iirc one of our devs is going to present a paper at the next siggraph |
| 22:45.44 | prasad_ | wonder if they'll let me go :P |
| 22:47.11 | *** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) | |
| 22:49.51 | prasad_ | brlcad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBp3LxAetHk |
| 23:02.49 | *** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218) | |
| 23:12.46 | starseeker | This should at least put brl-cad in the "proper" location - now we're probably down to calling the autogen.sh script and the hostility to using internal copies of libs (some of which don't even HAVE ebuilds yet for their stand-alone versions...) |
| 23:18.40 | louipc | starseeker: where do you put the executables? |
| 23:20.16 | starseeker | louipc: /usr/lib/brlcad/bin |
| 23:20.22 | starseeker | louipc: Then I add that to PATH |
| 23:20.30 | starseeker | (gentoo has a mechanism for that) |
| 23:22.51 | starseeker | louipc: Got a gentoo box handy? ;-) |
| 23:23.47 | louipc | nope |
| 23:24.14 | louipc | hmm I might look into doing the same for my pkg |
| 23:24.31 | starseeker | It's the only safe way to stick it in the /usr tree |
| 23:24.42 | starseeker | And they're quite insistent about it not going anywhere else... |
| 23:24.50 | louipc | hehe yeah |
| 23:25.39 | starseeker | I also add /usr/lib/brlcad/man to the MANPATH, so man mged does something useful too ;-) |
| 23:25.47 | louipc | but brlcad is a huge package, my distro would probably be ok with it being in /opt also considering the potential conflicts, but there's been an initiative recently to move things to /usr |
| 23:26.22 | louipc | you could probably put the manpages in the regular manpath non? |
| 23:26.50 | brlcad | i am not! |
| 23:26.56 | starseeker | Only if no internal tcl/tk goodies are installed - they conflict with system packages |
| 23:26.58 | brlcad | I'm rather short, actually |
| 23:27.45 | louipc | oh right hah |
| 23:28.11 | starseeker | Eventually Gentoo would probably be able to supply enough external libs that the internal ones wouldn't be needed, but that'll be a long struggle |
| 23:28.29 | starseeker | (considering we're coming up on the THREE YEAR MARK for the main brl-cad bug... ahem) |
| 23:28.32 | brlcad | but I do _have_ a huge package *ahem* |
| 23:28.37 | brlcad | er, never mind |
| 23:28.43 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:29.02 | louipc | brlcad: good to know |
| 23:29.03 | brlcad | thank you, I'm here all week |
| 23:29.12 | brlcad | try the lobster bisque |
| 23:29.26 | louipc | now I'm hungry |
| 23:29.35 | starseeker | mmm food... |
| 23:29.58 | louipc | I think I'll go buy some RAM |
| 23:30.10 | starseeker | That's rather crunchy |
| 23:30.14 | brlcad | hehe, "And what exactly are you supposed to do when printf() returns false? Display an error message? " |
| 23:30.31 | starseeker | I think you have the computer yell something ;-) |
| 23:31.42 | louipc | make it emit a foul odour |
| 23:34.00 | louipc | I wonder what scent static or white noise would smell like |
| 23:34.32 | starseeker | Maybe that's what I smell when I walk by a perfume counter in a department store... |
| 23:38.25 | louipc | nice |
| 23:49.06 | louipc | indeed! |
| 23:49.22 | starseeker | Considering how old the system is, there's a lot of stuff there - compresses down with gzip to slightly over 118 megs |
| 23:58.00 | ``Erik | er |
| 23:58.11 | ``Erik | you had three sushi lunches, dude |
| 00:00.06 | ``Erik | and printf can puke at complex or generated format strings, or if stdout is gimpy, so a nice 'safe' (without allocations or fmt parsing) display to stderr MIGHT be helpful... :D |
| 00:02.13 | ``Erik | kinda looks like a bsd-ish license, ya gonna post your multics tarball somewhere? or ask 'em to provide one on their site? heh |
| 00:27.53 | *** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) | |
| 01:50.36 | starseeker | Heh - If they were going to provide one I'd assume they would have done so already - it's the most obvious thing to do. |
| 01:51.02 | starseeker | As for posting it somewhere, I would but I'm not sure where I can post it - I don't really have my own website... |
| 01:53.10 | ``Erik | I d'no |
| 01:53.12 | ``Erik | it's mit... |
| 01:53.32 | starseeker | They may not want a lot of nerds randomly downloading 118 megs... |
| 01:53.33 | ``Erik | some smart people there, but I think almost all of them thnk they're a lot smarter than they are |
| 01:57.28 | starseeker | Heh - probably. |
| 02:03.39 | starseeker | Grrrrrrr. What is Gentoo up to on the AMD64 platform with itcl/itk?? |
| 02:17.19 | ``Erik | hey, uh, brlcad |
| 02:17.29 | ``Erik | ctrl+opt+cmd+8 |
| 02:19.04 | poolio | inverted colors iirc? |
| 02:46.32 | brlcad | yes? |
| 02:47.57 | brlcad | starseeker: you're welcome to an account on .bz if you want |
| 02:53.59 | ``Erik | negative, yes, quite sharp of you, hoolio |
| 02:54.27 | starseeker | brlcad: That would be nice.. |
| 02:54.49 | ``Erik | speaking of, is that file still accurate? |
| 02:55.51 | poolio | ``Erik: I only know it cause I'd use it for mischief on others' computers. |
| 02:57.03 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:57.07 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:57.31 | ``Erik | in '96 or so, I convinced a friend to get an x86 and install linux... he was a mac guy |
| 02:57.39 | ``Erik | he invited me in and rooted me up to check over his box |
| 02:57.50 | ``Erik | so I dd's the kernel to the audio out |
| 02:57.56 | ``Erik | and opened and closed the cdrom a few times |
| 02:57.59 | ``Erik | freaked him out :D |
| 02:58.38 | poolio | heh, i was more of a fan of cat, but yeah, that's always fun. |
| 02:58.54 | poolio | man, 2nd semester in a row Im not getting the programming course I want. this sucks. |
| 02:59.08 | ``Erik | what course? |
| 02:59.10 | starseeker | brlcad: Mightn't they put their eyebrows up at a 118M tarball of an ancient OS though? ;-) |
| 02:59.33 | poolio | Intro to Computer Systems...there are already 110 people on the waitlist (all not freshmen) and the class is only 150 |
| 02:59.52 | ``Erik | SOUTHPARK TIME |
| 03:00.06 | ``Erik | aren't you a little past that? |
| 03:00.24 | poolio | ``Erik: It's low level C, doing stuff like implementing a proxy, rewriting malloc, etc... |
| 03:00.30 | louipc | what's Intro to Computer Systems? "this is the monitor, this is the keyboard?" |
| 03:00.31 | poolio | I know most of it but not enough to place out of it |
| 03:00.32 | ``Erik | oh |
| 03:00.42 | ``Erik | aight, cool |
| 03:00.45 | louipc | ah ok :D |
| 03:00.56 | poolio | Prepares you for the class after that, OS, which is ridiculously hard...you write your own OS :P |
| 03:01.08 | louipc | damnit Erik |
| 03:01.10 | ``Erik | I was afraid you meant like "this program is called excdell, you can put numbers in it" type work |
| 03:01.17 | ``Erik | writing an OS all depends on the hw |
| 03:01.36 | ``Erik | x86 is horribly ugly with the nasty gdt/idt/isr hacks |
| 03:01.52 | ``Erik | um, proxy's and malloc are pretty easy |
| 03:02.16 | poolio | yeah, I mean 213 shouldn't be too bad, but it will be good practice before I get my ass kicked in OS |
| 03:02.41 | ``Erik | cmu is actually the school I really want ot go to for my grad work |
| 03:03.06 | ``Erik | of the handful of 'best for cs' schools, it matches my interests most |
| 03:03.30 | ``Erik | <-- very into os's and languages |
| 03:04.04 | louipc | do you folks know a good school for electrical engineering? |
| 03:07.20 | starseeker | ``Erik: How are you going to go there while working on BRL-CAD? |
| 03:07.54 | ``Erik | in theory, ARL "supports" 'long term training' |
| 03:08.01 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 03:08.26 | starseeker | brlcad: Should I send you any info for the .bz account? |
| 03:08.59 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: |
| 03:09.01 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: AHA! I had added the final tclcad_auto_path() call... just not to the mged init |
| 03:09.03 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: routine. it was only added to bwish (those two really should syncronize their |
| 03:09.05 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: init routines into tclcad or something). this "should" fix the "gui" error. |
| 03:09.14 | ``Erik | real name, shell preference, and mebbe ssh pub keys, otherwise he'd have to make you a temp passwd |
| 03:09.25 | brlcad | starseeker: they? |
| 03:09.39 | starseeker | Whoever hosts bz and pays for bandwidth |
| 03:09.45 | brlcad | .bz is not a gov't server |
| 03:09.52 | brlcad | ah, then 'they' == 'me' :) |
| 03:09.54 | ``Erik | 'they' is brlcad |
| 03:09.54 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 03:10.25 | ``Erik | (though I might try to do something with the machine that I might feel obligated to hand brlcad a little scratch for in the future...." |
| 03:10.44 | brlcad | it's got several names that point to it at this point, the fqdn of the primary ip is bz.bzflag.bz |
| 03:11.13 | ``Erik | brlcad, did I miss anything in my list of info? |
| 03:11.14 | brlcad | though it's also my.brlcad.org, ftp.brlcad.org, and a couple dozen other names |
| 03:11.40 | brlcad | what list of info? |
| 03:11.50 | ``Erik | real name, shell, ssh pub key... |
| 03:12.00 | ``Erik | like, 2 minutes ago... |
| 03:12.12 | ``Erik | fucking attention span of a squirrel on speed |
| 03:12.14 | brlcad | oh, I missed that (rather, i've only skimmed my logs |
| 03:12.20 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:12.30 | brlcad | ah, there it be after cia |
| 03:12.51 | brlcad | which, luckily we don't have one of the broken cia bots |
| 03:13.18 | brlcad | one of them is rather dead and has been for many days now, scanline's been pretty latent in doing anything about it |
| 03:14.11 | brlcad | yeah, that's almost everything |
| 03:42.30 | ``Erik | I installed a bunch of stuff, btu I didn't do "setup", which should just be copying files |
| 03:43.14 | ``Erik | uh |
| 03:43.23 | ``Erik | 18% faster than the old machine??? |
| 03:43.47 | brlcad | yeah :/ |
| 03:43.48 | ``Erik | oohhhh, wait |
| 03:43.57 | brlcad | cpu |
| 03:43.59 | ``Erik | it was already a reasonably fast machine |
| 03:44.05 | ``Erik | 2.4 celery |
| 03:44.08 | brlcad | yeah, it's not too shabby |
| 03:44.19 | ``Erik | I dunno what I was thinking it was like a 667mhz |
| 03:44.24 | brlcad | went from 2.4 celery to 2.4 penguin |
| 03:46.24 | ``Erik | just a p4 |
| 03:46.32 | ``Erik | not like ya stepped up to an opteron |
| 03:47.55 | ``Erik | all the accounts are 'migrated'? sans home dir? |
| 03:51.39 | brlcad | gubby mint connotation wasn't implied :) |
| 03:51.45 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:51.46 | ``Erik | well |
| 03:52.04 | ``Erik | penguin ain't a gov't co, they just got real lucky selling some silly-cone |
| 03:52.13 | brlcad | yep, all accounts work like a charm now .. migrating the filessytems this weekend |
| 03:53.05 | ``Erik | in I think '99, I wrote an opengl screen saver for a company doing high perofrmance linux stuff |
| 03:53.34 | ``Erik | I dont' even remembertheir name |
| 03:54.03 | ``Erik | but they were based in kc, several of my local buddies went up there to work for them, they kinda snuck me the ss dealie |
| 03:54.38 | ``Erik | wanted their logo displayed over apool of rippling water... I added a couple moving lights influenced by a mutual gravity type algorithm |
| 03:54.53 | ``Erik | then a couple formed another company in kansas to compete |
| 03:55.21 | ``Erik | and one of them went and committed suicide :( |
| 03:55.51 | ``Erik | 'atipa' in kc, |
| 03:58.09 | starseeker | And here it is, thanks to brlcad - a Multics tarball :-) |
| 03:58.20 | starseeker | http://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/ |
| 04:01.45 | ``Erik | brlcad, I put our mortal accounts in the wheel group... Idunno who else is on admit, but it might be worth making that disappear |
| 04:04.56 | brlcad | making what disappear? |
| 04:05.05 | brlcad | oh, making admin disappear |
| 04:05.12 | brlcad | yeah, mebbie |
| 04:05.26 | starseeker | Well, now all we need is a Multics hardware simulator and we can try reliving the glory days on Multics with BRL-CAD ;-) |
| 04:05.34 | brlcad | though I usually put an impossible password on that and use that when I have to give the ISP a user/pass to fix things |
| 04:05.49 | starseeker | Hehehe |
| 04:24.04 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: match what mged does order-wise |
| 04:29.56 | ``Erik | I assume that the set of people with access to that file is greater than 2 |
| 04:41.31 | brlcad | yep |
| 04:42.14 | brlcad | it'll go through surges of completion, my goal is to be done by the end of this month |
| 04:42.22 | brlcad | so a bunch this weekend and next |
| 05:07.07 | poolio | Hmm, could I ask a question re: svn organization? |
| 05:07.25 | brlcad | go for it |
| 05:08.05 | brlcad | there's two main common techniques |
| 05:08.11 | brlcad | s/techniques/structures/ |
| 05:09.06 | poolio | So I'm working on a project with a bunch of people, and the established method they have is each sub-project has its own branch, and when their code is stable they commit it to trunk. The issue I am having is that it's a pain to download an entirely diferent branch when you want to see their stuff and you end up with like 20 different branches |
| 05:10.03 | poolio | Is that considered a normal practice? |
| 05:19.45 | brlcad | there's no universal practice, that's not unheard of in the least |
| 05:20.22 | brlcad | just rather heavy-process undoubtedly to maintain the trunk as stable as possible |
| 05:21.00 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r298 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: add echo support |
| 05:24.18 | ``Erik | um, I know with cvs, the usual behavior I've seen is most hot development happens in head |
| 05:24.42 | ``Erik | releases are either rbanchend or tagged (big ones branch, sometimes two levels like fbsd) |
| 05:25.16 | ``Erik | any radical 'subproject' might get a branch, sometimes in a different VCS |
| 05:25.34 | ``Erik | fbsd has a lot of 'radicals' in perforce, for example |
| 05:29.27 | brlcad | that's also in part because branches are more of a bitch in cvs than svn, so they're more minimized |
| 05:30.07 | brlcad | svn isn't great on the branches, but it does do at least improve upon how easy it is to maintain a branch and merge |
| 05:31.07 | brlcad | but i've heard that same sub-project structure in cvs where each dev maintains a branch |
| 05:31.38 | brlcad | just a matter of familiarity/comfort with the level of effort, and the stability/integration tradeoffs |
| 05:32.17 | brlcad | which apparently isn't your cup of tea, but if there are already that many devs working that way, then they're probably quite accustomed to that process (asuming the project is active) |
| 05:34.22 | brlcad | hm, did just verify that yukonbob's bad pixels are floating point fuzz |
| 05:38.45 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r299 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws |
| 05:40.03 | ``Erik | if you go branch heavy, EVERYONE needs to be damn good at resolving conflicts |
| 05:40.17 | ``Erik | otherwise, everyone needs to be good and updating and commiting often |
| 05:40.23 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:40.24 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r300 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws2 |
| 05:41.07 | brlcad | it'd suck for my taste to go to that extent, but I can easily see projects/people that'd go that route for grandios claims |
| 05:41.28 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r301 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws 3 |
| 05:43.08 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r302 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: still more whitespace |
| 05:45.07 | poolio | Yeah, it's firmly established, and I'm just a new freshmen so it's not likely that I can make them change. It works for them though, just has been kinda a pain to keep track of and see what the different senior members are working on |
| 05:45.14 | poolio | And thanks for the replies guys :) |
| 05:46.41 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r303 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: Add CIA echo capability |
| 05:49.53 | ``Erik | blah |
| 05:50.09 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r304 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: only parse the master if we aren't doing an echo |
| 05:51.58 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r305 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: log the target channel on an echo |
| 06:04.07 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r306 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/readme.txt: mention echos |
| 06:04.52 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r307 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: allow more then one CIA echo target per input channel and project |
| 06:17.41 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r309 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: do a safer erase that won't geek windows on a user part. |
| 06:39.00 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r311 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: if the line in the channel dosn't have a : then don't even try to parse it for a CIA echo |
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| 13:27.54 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/qray.c: Mods to use librt's qray routines. This fixes the inability to adjust the format strings and shrinks MGED's code base a tiny bit. Note - after testing on unix the if'ed out code can be removed. |
| 13:29.42 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Expose a few more functions in librt. |
| 14:12.40 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-236-67-238.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) | |
| 14:20.45 | brlcad | howdy poolio |
| 14:21.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Added a few more projects. |
| 14:22.10 | poolio | mornin' |
| 14:25.41 | ``Erik | yargh, matey |
| 14:27.30 | poolio | All my classes are slowly but surely filling up and I can't register for another hour |
| 14:27.36 | poolio | grargh. |
| 14:31.41 | ``Erik | that's usually the way it goes... seniority gets first stab... |
| 14:32.03 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Initial check-in. |
| 14:32.49 | ``Erik | have ya figured out the full dependancy graph to figure out what classes you need to take first to keep your total stay short? |
| 14:33.15 | ``Erik | I had to load up on math early on, didn't do much cs the first year |
| 14:34.33 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (btclsh/btclsh.vcproj bwish/bwish.vcproj): Increase optimization. |
| 14:34.33 | ``Erik | heh, by the time I finish an update and build, bob checks in smething else, so I have to do it again O.o :D |
| 14:34.54 | poolio | slow poke. |
| 14:34.59 | Defcon | :D |
| 14:35.29 | ``Erik | I'm doing a cvs -qz3 up -Pd at the top level dir, I'm sure if I'd cd into where he's making a mess, it'd go faster |
| 14:35.49 | ``Erik | and when he changes something like, y'know, raytrace.h ... |
| 14:37.32 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Turn off debugging. |
| 14:39.26 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Add 12 more projects. |
| 14:46.28 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob enabled/fixed the embedded framebuffer in the windows port and has added a slew of other missing utilities (too many to enumerate, but it's all of the ray-tracers). |
| 14:47.55 | ``Erik | bah |
| 14:48.28 | ``Erik | I finally get the winderz box back on the net, call hlepdesk to get my email passwd reset, and the entire site is having an email outage |
| 14:49.10 | ``Erik | accepting exchange for the calendar stuff was a mistake :/ |
| 14:49.23 | ``Erik | shoulda stuck with good old unix mail, it 'just works' |
| 15:30.41 | PrezKennedy | wish we could use some unix boxes here |
| 15:30.50 | PrezKennedy | for essential stuff |
| 15:35.36 | ``Erik | nice http://qdb.us/101461 |
| 15:36.37 | ``Erik | when I was at school, I got to watch 6 old aix boxes get replaced with "a couple" shiney new fast NT boxes |
| 15:37.00 | ``Erik | by the time the functionality was back to the same level for 'critical' services like email and web, there were over 300 nt servers |
| 15:40.43 | PrezKennedy | one for each person? |
| 15:40.44 | PrezKennedy | :-) |
| 15:41.09 | ``Erik | close to one for every ten people, I think, I dunno |
| 15:42.46 | ``Erik | (and the cs and math depts propped up their own servers, so they could stay useful... cs had a dual core fbsd beasty, math had a cheap desktop type running linux) |
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| 16:59.34 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: there are serious problem with accuracy of what rt-edge produces |
| 16:59.41 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: like it sometimes leaves out whole edges |
| 16:59.52 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: is there any remedy to that? |
| 17:04.35 | ``Erik | um, make your thing bigger for raytracing? |
| 17:05.35 | *** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) | |
| 17:11.54 | SkunkyFunky | ``Erik: but it leaves out edges which are not minuscule at all and the cylinders between which they are are also major cylinders in the model. |
| 17:13.02 | ``Erik | um, iirc, it looks for a neighbor hit distance and uses a fixed distance to see if it should call that an edge... and I think it might just look at horizontal neighbors :/ |
| 17:22.38 | SkunkyFunky | I |
| 17:22.46 | SkunkyFunky | I'll post the picture later the edge is 45 degrees |
| 17:31.32 | brlcad | SkunkyFunky: do you know the depth across the edge? |
| 17:31.42 | brlcad | it's an absolute size, iirc |
| 17:32.00 | brlcad | so if you're model is small, it won't see the edge |
| 17:32.14 | ``Erik | man that is freakin' ugly code :( |
| 17:32.19 | brlcad | there's not presently a run-time way to change that depth (would be a good mod to make) |
| 17:32.43 | brlcad | meh, didn't think it was all that horrible |
| 17:33.25 | brlcad | easy enough to understand regardless |
| 17:38.23 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: 10mm or so |
| 17:38.28 | SkunkyFunky | and the thing is like 700mm big |
| 17:38.59 | brlcad | that's probably why |
| 17:39.08 | ``Erik | scale it up to rtedge |
| 17:39.10 | ``Erik | like |
| 17:39.10 | SkunkyFunky | How big is the hardcoded constant? |
| 17:39.17 | ``Erik | 10-20m big |
| 17:39.28 | SkunkyFunky | 10-20 meters? |
| 17:40.04 | ``Erik | yeah, that should fix it :D |
| 17:40.08 | SkunkyFunky | but that's a design relying on arbitrary constants, that cannot work reliably by principle |
| 17:40.18 | ``Erik | yes, it sucks, it needs to be fixed |
| 17:41.14 | SkunkyFunky | can it be done without the constant by principle at all? |
| 17:41.33 | SkunkyFunky | does anyone have jdk-1_5_0_10-linux-i586.bin? |
| 17:41.41 | brlcad | SkunkyFunky: it's not a hardcoded constant |
| 17:41.43 | SkunkyFunky | LFS needs it but the Sun downloads don't have it anymore/ |
| 17:41.47 | brlcad | it's based on the cell size |
| 17:41.49 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: where can it be set? |
| 17:41.53 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: what's a cell size? |
| 17:41.58 | brlcad | in the code, look for this: |
| 17:41.59 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.04 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.09 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.17 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.19 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:42.38 | SkunkyFunky | where does 87 come from? An universal extraterrestrial constant? |
| 17:43.28 | brlcad | would have to look at lgt |
| 17:43.50 | brlcad | probably just derived from experimental sampling of vehicles |
| 17:44.06 | brlcad | value is of course, 19.08 |
| 17:44.09 | SkunkyFunky | My Ronja is not a vehicle that's the problem |
| 17:44.13 | brlcad | yep |
| 17:44.16 | brlcad | a long known issue |
| 17:44.23 | SkunkyFunky | How many wheels do I have to implement to become a vehicle? |
| 17:44.28 | brlcad | like I said, it'd be a great mod to make |
| 17:44.52 | SkunkyFunky | I could make a field Ronja with 4 balooney wheels |
| 17:45.10 | SkunkyFunky | or with caterpillar tracks for better traction in swampy terrains |
| 17:45.15 | brlcad | wasn't just vehicles, probably just a random sampling of models |
| 17:45.23 | brlcad | but then I'm just entirely guessing |
| 17:45.37 | brlcad | rtedge guy took it from lgt, lgt does back 15+ years |
| 17:45.55 | SkunkyFunky | and back then they tossed a coin |
| 17:46.15 | SkunkyFunky | or a cow or whatever was used for payment at that times ;-) |
| 17:47.00 | brlcad | flipping a coin and get 87, don't think so |
| 17:47.38 | SkunkyFunky | I just got an idea of acoustic burglar alarm based on speaker-microphone feedback |
| 17:48.04 | SkunkyFunky | Put a microphone and speaker into some space and when a person passes they create a reflection which reflects with >1 loop gain and oscillation is created |
| 17:48.17 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: maybe they flipped a 100 dollar bill and got 87? |
| 17:48.26 | SkunkyFunky | from the devaluation? ;-) |
| 17:49.14 | SkunkyFunky | or 2 speakers transmitting in opposite phase and a microphone just between them |
| 17:49.37 | SkunkyFunky | with high gain. In clear state it zeroes out almost perfectly and when someone breaks the acoustic field it starts a shrill |
| 17:49.39 | brlcad | commit message from gary moss (back in '88) was simply "Added distance discriminant map to hiddenline drawing model." |
| 17:50.00 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: isn't this constant an inevitable part of the algorithm? |
| 17:50.13 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: or is it a way to identify an edge without any constant? |
| 17:50.21 | SkunkyFunky | I mean of course dynamically calculated constant as you said |
| 17:50.42 | brlcad | either way, it's been a long-known limitation that it's cellsize dependent -- what it means, though, is that you may be able to generate a bigger image to get the edge (add an edge thickness) |
| 17:51.16 | brlcad | SkunkyFunky: edges are determined (in rtedge) via multiple checks, depth simply being the main driver for most models |
| 17:51.18 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: bigger image you mean more pixels by more pixels? |
| 17:51.26 | brlcad | sharp changes in curvature will do it too |
| 17:51.31 | brlcad | yes |
| 17:51.53 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: I cannot find the edge thickness in brlman rtedge |
| 17:52.16 | SkunkyFunky | -c Set special rtedge configuration variables |
| 17:52.20 | SkunkyFunky | Is it one of them? |
| 17:52.56 | brlcad | the fix is to just make it a settable depth since there's not really a good way to determine the edges desired for arbitrary models without brep conversion |
| 17:53.01 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: minor clean-up |
| 17:53.05 | brlcad | yeah, it's a -c var |
| 17:53.59 | brlcad | i think |
| 17:54.14 | SkunkyFunky | can't find it |
| 17:55.32 | brlcad | ah, my mistake, no such option |
| 17:55.48 | SkunkyFunky | :( |
| 17:55.51 | SkunkyFunky | That would be handy |
| 17:56.05 | brlcad | you can still generate the larger image and it should give the edge if sufficiently big |
| 17:56.20 | brlcad | assuming you don't exceed the max image dimensions of course |
| 17:56.26 | SkunkyFunky | yes but how do I make the edge thicker before downsampling the image to overlay with the raytraced model? |
| 17:56.31 | SkunkyFunky | which is? |
| 17:56.36 | SkunkyFunky | (another hardcoded constat?) |
| 17:56.56 | SkunkyFunky | is there some pixspread or pixerode program? |
| 17:57.00 | SkunkyFunky | or pixgrow |
| 17:57.08 | SkunkyFunky | pixshrink |
| 17:58.23 | brlcad | the max "should" be uint x uint (so about 2billion x 2billion) but there are various temp buffers throughout that haven't been all weeded out yet, so practically it's probably more like 64k x 64k |
| 17:59.07 | brlcad | either way, it's more than photoshop could handle before CS came out :) |
| 17:59.09 | SkunkyFunky | that's enough |
| 17:59.19 | SkunkyFunky | Counterstrike? |
| 17:59.25 | brlcad | Photoshop CS |
| 17:59.33 | SkunkyFunky | Czechoslovak edition? |
| 17:59.43 | brlcad | beats me, google it up |
| 18:00.22 | brlcad | for your purpose, you really could just use the configurable depth |
| 18:00.34 | brlcad | there ya go |
| 18:01.26 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: but the the edges are jagged anyway |
| 18:01.38 | SkunkyFunky | often looks good but often looks ugly too |
| 18:01.44 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: allow users to set arbitrary distance threshholds |
| 18:01.48 | SkunkyFunky | is the rtedge substantially faster than rt? |
| 18:01.55 | SkunkyFunky | ``Erik: Thanks :) |
| 18:02.13 | SkunkyFunky | O.O |
| 18:03.10 | brlcad | SkunkyFunky: yes, rtedge does considerably less work than rt |
| 18:03.20 | brlcad | so it's faster in what it does |
| 18:05.18 | SkunkyFunky | brlcad: did you find out why that model was 291x slower than the other ones? |
| 18:06.12 | ``Erik | think that deserves a NEWS line? |
| 18:06.13 | brlcad | the reason was exactly what john mentioned |
| 18:06.17 | brlcad | ``Erik: definitely does |
| 18:06.48 | brlcad | every user-visible non-dev change |
| 18:07.01 | brlcad | don't forget the manpage ;) |
| 18:07.03 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtedge.1: mention the new max_dist option |
| 18:07.19 | ``Erik | huh? |
| 18:07.20 | ``Erik | the what? |
| 18:07.48 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:08.03 | ``Erik | <-- had already hit enter on the commit when he asked if it was worth NEWS... :) |
| 18:08.07 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention max_dist option for rtedge |
| 18:09.47 | ``Erik | some, um, interesting little details... it doesn't buffer anything up, so the edge 'detection' only uses two pixels, the one immediately below and the one to the left O.o |
| 18:10.32 | brlcad | yeah, ron talked about that way back when |
| 18:11.00 | brlcad | it was enough just to get it working at the time, he had all sorts of plans for improving it.. |
| 18:11.09 | ``Erik | heh |
| 18:41.33 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r313 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: |
| 18:41.33 | CIA-27 | libirc: save off the echo settings on a flush |
| 18:42.01 | CIA-27 | libirc: add command to set echos in realtime |
| 19:31.25 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 19:31.46 | yukonbob | hello, whirled |
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| 20:38.22 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: actually rt takes 1.6 sec and rtedge 3.18 sec CPU time |
| 20:38.52 | Z80-Boy | I have noticed there seems to be some kind of preparation phase before the raytracing itself. And this takes significant amount of time. |
| 20:39.10 | Z80-Boy | Can this time be saved if I have the same geometry and output just different azimuths? |
| 20:46.18 | Z80-Boy | clock@kestrel:~$ anim_script -a 10 |
| 20:46.18 | Z80-Boy | Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
| 20:46.19 | Z80-Boy | Ouch |
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| 22:01.46 | starseeker | wee |
| 22:08.44 | ``Erik | aa heh |
| 22:08.51 | ``Erik | rfc1459, yo :D |
| 22:11.21 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fchmod() |
| 22:11.40 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't have fchmod or _fchmod apparently |
| 22:14.49 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: according to the sources, this is still 4.0.1 |
| 22:16.47 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fchmod.c: rework bu_fchmod() to use HAVE_FCHMOD feature, falling back to chmod if it's not available. add missing footer. convert to unix line endings. |
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| 22:50.00 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (cadAppInit.c winMain.c): dos->unix line terminators |
| 22:50.18 | ``Erik | <-- not gonna dork with the 3 in libz |
| 23:03.57 | Z80-Boy | Some outlined drawings |
| 23:03.58 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded_cut_0.png |
| 23:04.30 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_0.png |
| 23:16.14 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: I figured you were doing that :) |
| 23:16.15 | brlcad | nice |
| 23:16.25 | brlcad | have you played with rtwizard? |
| 23:21.28 | bpoole | alloo |
| 23:22.17 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: no |
| 23:22.46 | Z80-Boy | Also this http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/railing_0.png |
| 23:23.16 | Z80-Boy | and this http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/plazmatron_0.png |
| 23:23.35 | brlcad | alloo bpoole |
| 23:24.13 | Z80-Boy | and this http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new_0.png |
| 23:24.42 | brlcad | yeah, the main reason it's drawing the edges that it's drawing is because the normal vector for the neighbors is drasticly different |
| 23:25.13 | brlcad | the ones it's not drawing have the same orientation |
| 23:25.36 | Z80-Boy | Here you can see where the edge is left out on the cylinders between brown and grey http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_0.png |
| 23:26.27 | brlcad | hep, the curvature matchs |
| 23:26.31 | Z80-Boy | On this one you can see it's making up dots on the rim http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/rear_cap_0.png |
| 23:26.44 | brlcad | the more you go up that curve, the more they diverge |
| 23:27.32 | Z80-Boy | on this one you can see some kind of double-dotted line it made up in a place where is no edge: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/mast_0.png |
| 23:27.52 | bpoole | brlcad: so, thanksgiving I think I'm going to re-read my code and try to maybe start working on beset again, for real this time :) |
| 23:27.55 | Z80-Boy | If it considers a transition from straight plane into a curved one an edge then it should print a solid edge and not double dotted one |
| 23:28.36 | Z80-Boy | The pattern is actually .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . or something like that interesting |
| 23:28.53 | brlcad | it's because of the change in the normal |
| 23:29.01 | Z80-Boy | And also made up couple of randomly placed dots around the object |
| 23:29.03 | brlcad | floating point fuzz -- it's right on the edge |
| 23:29.25 | brlcad | tweaking the curvature angle would make that line solid or disappear |
| 23:29.36 | brlcad | (not in the model, in rtedge) |
| 23:29.45 | Z80-Boy | there is no angle the rounded surface is tangential to the straight one |
| 23:30.05 | brlcad | there is a normal angle |
| 23:30.14 | brlcad | for every pixel that hits something |
| 23:30.20 | Z80-Boy | and what are the two black dots just above the top edge on the white U channel? |
| 23:30.23 | brlcad | it uses that angle to determine hit |
| 23:30.35 | Z80-Boy | There is nothing at that place that could be misinterpreted it's just a solid rpp |
| 23:32.21 | brlcad | not obvious for the points on the top, not clear, could be the edge of some negative primitive that is getting sorted in front |
| 23:32.34 | brlcad | causing a perturbed normal for just those few pixels |
| 23:32.57 | brlcad | related to the issue yukonbob was seeing in his render |
| 23:33.29 | brlcad | the other "spots" though are on a a curvature end/start point where there is a change |
| 23:33.41 | Z80-Boy | But there is no doubt that if you have a straight surface where there are no edges or seams between primitives that there is no edge! |
| 23:34.30 | brlcad | i'm not disagreeing with you on the top ones |
| 23:34.45 | brlcad | the ones, however, where curvature starts, however, is quite debateable |
| 23:34.51 | Z80-Boy | And the little yellow edge right of the blue pipe is partly missing, although the shading on both sides is visibly different |
| 23:34.59 | Z80-Boy | Is it because normals are too similar? |
| 23:35.00 | brlcad | most cad systems *will* show you bot the beginning and end of that inside blend |
| 23:35.30 | Z80-Boy | Well they should either show nothing or a solid edge and not a broken one |
| 23:35.44 | brlcad | sure |
| 23:35.49 | Z80-Boy | cause the whole interface is translation symmetric so the output should be also translation symmetric |
| 23:35.58 | brlcad | it's just numerically working out that way due to floating point fuzz |
| 23:36.25 | brlcad | there's very little you can do about it when you're on the boundary of the curvature value, other than change the value |
| 23:36.37 | Z80-Boy | I thought all those minimum-angle minimum-distance constatnts are there to suppress the floating point fuzz |
| 23:36.46 | Z80-Boy | BTW floating point behaves in an astonishing way. |
| 23:37.04 | brlcad | it's not there to suppress floating point, it's there to detect the edge |
| 23:37.17 | Z80-Boy | For example float a; <something> printf("%G\n",a); printf("%G\n",a); once gave me two different results which differed in the last digit |
| 23:37.20 | brlcad | we're dealing with implicit prims, so there is no actual edge other than the one sampled |
| 23:37.40 | brlcad | that's not astonishing, it's the way it is |
| 23:37.48 | Z80-Boy | Yes, the value of the floating point variable can change without any write into the variable! |
| 23:38.20 | brlcad | you would also then be astonished how much code is actually dedicated to trying to manage floating point fuzz in all the computations... |
| 23:38.40 | Z80-Boy | I am not surprised I once tried to write a doom-like game engine ;-) |
| 23:38.49 | Z80-Boy | That's where I stroke that illogical behaviour |
| 23:38.59 | brlcad | yes, it can, particularly if it's not a representable value and might depend upon which registers it's loaded into or how the floating point unit operates |
| 23:39.50 | Z80-Boy | it was a normal number |
| 23:39.53 | Z80-Boy | say like 1.38 or so |
| 23:40.05 | brlcad | that doesn't mean it's representable |
| 23:41.21 | brlcad | 1000.2 is not a representable number, for example, for a float |
| 23:41.30 | brlcad | yet it's perfectly "normal" |
| 23:42.29 | Z80-Boy | If it were calculated in fixed point then at least a==a would be valid |
| 23:42.41 | Z80-Boy | and not that it would print two different numbers without a write into the variable. |
| 23:43.07 | Z80-Boy | Floating point behaves a bit like analogue compuiter |
| 23:43.57 | brlcad | even .1 isn't representable |
| 23:45.33 | Z80-Boy | .1 .2 .3 .4 .6 .7 .8 .9 |
| 23:46.57 | Z80-Boy | Real numbers are just a school illusion |
| 23:47.01 | Z80-Boy | As well as integers. |
| 23:48.06 | Z80-Boy | Kids are taught to think about the world in terms of something that cannot exist by principle |
| 23:49.10 | brlcad | it exists within a tolerance ;) |
| 23:51.23 | Z80-Boy | Here the results are not very good either http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/hardware_1.png |
| 00:00.00 | brlcad | wow, that sure is ugly :) |
| 00:04.42 | ``Erik | nifty |
| 00:36.31 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03brlcad * r317 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCUserManager.h: eof newline |
| 00:46.33 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) | |
| 00:47.05 | yukonbob | hello, cadders. |
| 00:48.14 | ``Erik | yargh, matey, shiver me timbers |
| 00:48.41 | ``Erik | http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/2135204 |
| 00:48.41 | ``Erik | http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/1611208 |
| 00:48.55 | ``Erik | (for those that don't imbibe regularly) |
| 00:53.49 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r319 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: no longer log when we get a part message. |
| 00:56.32 | ``Erik | hrm |
| 00:56.46 | ``Erik | egEnable(EG_GRIPE_MODE); |
| 00:57.09 | ``Erik | are you not in #libirc? must those who don't give a flying fuck about libirc see the cia msg's? :D |
| 00:57.14 | ``Erik | egDisable(EG_GRIPE_MODE); |
| 00:59.38 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r320 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: check the params and settings before we try to parse private messages to make sure they are valid |
| 01:00.22 | bpoole | brings a new meaning to commit early, commit often. like every 10 minutes :) |
| 01:00.43 | ``Erik | <-- just being a dick, it don't really bother me... :) |
| 01:01.26 | ``Erik | I've seen more irc libs than I care to look at, and know too much of rfc1459 to be considered 'healthy' or 'sane' |
| 01:01.54 | ``Erik | so these msgs' are just 'one thing to burn cycles for an "ignore" in the cognative filter' |
| 01:10.03 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r322 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: don't do a message on kick, it's stupid and chashes when it's YOU that gets kicked |
| 01:15.53 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03brlcad * r323 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 4 dirs): test |
| 01:16.29 | *** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) | |
| 01:17.32 | brlcad | yukonbob: howdy! |
| 01:17.36 | brlcad | goodbad news :) |
| 01:18.01 | brlcad | I know what causes those specs now |
| 01:18.58 | brlcad | it's related to floating point tolerance on the negative arb being used to get the inside of that torus (which is pretty damn creative if I do say so myself) |
| 01:19.54 | brlcad | related to how segments are weaved and how it ends up with an infinitely thin "cut" segment along the inside of that cylinder that tweaks the normal ever so slightly |
| 01:20.24 | brlcad | talking with another one of the devs sometime soon to see if/what we can do about it .. very core/hard problem that goes back to a really old issue |
| 01:21.55 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03brlcad * r324 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: test |
| 01:43.06 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03brlcad * r326 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/sample.cfg: test |
| 01:45.36 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 01:46.15 | ``Erik | huh |
| 01:46.59 | ``Erik | I hopped on #awos cuz it looked kinda interesting... lotta folk there also on #bzflag, #bzpod, #bzw, #bzfx, #bzflag, ... |
| 01:50.39 | *** join/#brlcad rdv (n=rdv@ool-44c79849.dyn.optonline.net) | |
| 01:52.35 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03brlcad * r328 10/trunk/libirc/src/ircBasicCommands.cpp: oops, didn't intend to commmit the commented-out processing of privmsg |
| 01:53.10 | yukonbob | brlcad: hey :) |
| 01:54.19 | brlcad | awilcox is a bzflagger |
| 01:54.58 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: floating point -- !!!That was my guess... |
| 01:55.53 | brlcad | yeah, it's in a bizzare backwards way |
| 01:57.02 | brlcad | it doesn't matter that the cut/intersect object is in negative space .. it doesn't know the boolean until it's time to weave segments |
| 01:58.39 | yukonbob | reminds _me_ of dealing with financial numbers, where nothing of significance is done w/ floating point, but instead use decimal floats instead of binary -- does any of that sound interesting for this case? |
| 01:59.29 | brlcad | it's interesting, just not highly practical :) |
| 01:59.59 | brlcad | doing fixed point math of any sort kills performance, as that is at the core of the ray-intersection engine |
| 02:00.21 | yukonbob | ya -- unless there's a specific version for the IBM z80 :P |
| 02:00.29 | brlcad | heh, true |
| 02:00.54 | yukonbob | well, it is a goodnews/badnews situation isn't it :) |
| 02:07.36 | *** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 02:13.56 | ``Erik | 'winny', too |
| 02:15.07 | brlcad | ah |
| 02:15.16 | brlcad | he's a punk kid ;) |
| 02:15.32 | brlcad | good intentions but a lot to learn still |
| 02:21.01 | ``Erik | which? winny? or wilcox? |
| 02:21.01 | ``Erik | both kinda seem like punk kids to me :D |
| 02:25.50 | ``Erik | that commercial claimed it was a flatbread, but it sure didn't look like a flat bread... (quiznos "sammies") |
| 02:27.12 | rdv | does anyone know if brlcad has been used for image-based modeling (2D to 3D)? |
| 02:31.03 | brlcad | rdv: not directly that I'm aware of |
| 02:31.21 | brlcad | a great research area, one we've often talked about getting into |
| 02:31.37 | ``Erik | heh, didn't you submit a dri on that? |
| 02:31.42 | brlcad | yep |
| 02:33.00 | ``Erik | I think the implications of how that could be applied would push me away form that... |
| 02:33.01 | brlcad | I'm pretty sure I could have made it work too |
| 02:33.16 | brlcad | at least to a proof of concept level |
| 02:33.39 | brlcad | yeah, kinda freaky uses if the system was solid |
| 02:33.47 | ``Erik | making better armor is all grand, but making better bullets... |
| 02:34.07 | brlcad | especially as it became reasonably near real-time |
| 02:35.19 | brlcad | it'll all converge one day anyways |
| 02:35.48 | brlcad | maybe I'll do my thesis on it or something instead |
| 02:35.51 | rdv | well ImageModeler and PhotoModeler exist already for those who have freaky uses in mind :) |
| 02:36.02 | rdv | not sure how powerful they are though |
| 02:36.12 | brlcad | rdv: he's talking about a research direction we almost took down that path |
| 02:36.28 | brlcad | pretty automatic 3D acquisition from video |
| 02:36.58 | rdv | is this a university or an independent lab? |
| 02:37.03 | brlcad | i've used image modeler, it's pretty nifty albeit exceptionally manual and time-intensive |
| 02:37.14 | brlcad | indep. lab |
| 02:37.21 | ``Erik | gov't lab |
| 02:37.55 | iday | brlcad: thesis? |
| 02:38.43 | brlcad | yeah.. a little ways off still, but on my mind |
| 02:38.50 | ``Erik | iday == jay-lo? |
| 02:39.16 | iday | yup |
| 02:39.30 | ``Erik | singer with the 'badonkadonk'? O.o heh :D |
| 02:39.37 | ``Erik | hah |
| 02:39.41 | ``Erik | gaffagan or something |
| 02:39.46 | iday | um... no |
| 02:39.50 | iday | thats missy |
| 02:39.51 | ``Erik | gaffigan |
| 02:39.58 | ``Erik | hooooooot pockets |
| 02:40.11 | ``Erik | so, uh, dude, a mini for your icon? DORK! |
| 02:40.16 | brlcad | erm, my comment is because I'm munching on some hot pockets atm :) |
| 02:40.21 | iday | ? oh... aim |
| 02:40.46 | iday | and, what, an m3 is cool? so 90s |
| 02:40.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:40.56 | ``Erik | I drive it, I don't make it my icon |
| 02:41.13 | iday | it was in a pinch.. better than a leaf |
| 02:41.39 | ``Erik | hum, I think I'm using a southpark icon |
| 02:41.46 | ``Erik | other places, I use a hal9000 icon :) |
| 02:41.48 | brlcad | mm, i'd go for a mini icon :P |
| 02:41.50 | iday | mr. brlcad didn't answer my question... |
| 02:42.00 | ``Erik | yeah, he's an elusive little bitch |
| 02:42.02 | iday | i've seen that one... nice |
| 02:42.14 | brlcad | maaa'aan.. take a look at that mini .. that suckers HUGE! |
| 02:42.27 | iday | uh huuuh... |
| 02:42.54 | iday | although i do like brlcad's "Combat" tank |
| 02:42.57 | ``Erik | when I worked at fedex, I was using freebsd on my desktop, used um,sawfish and bits of gnome, turned the gnome panel black and put it on the right, make the background black and had a hal eye in the middle of my screen :) |
| 02:43.02 | brlcad | uhh thaank ya .. thank yaa very much |
| 02:43.07 | iday | hehe |
| 02:43.10 | ``Erik | I don't think I have brlcad on aim or yahoo |
| 02:43.32 | brlcad | they're the devil |
| 02:43.37 | iday | hah |
| 02:43.52 | iday | use jabber then |
| 02:43.58 | ``Erik | jay-lo, um, "linked in"? |
| 02:44.10 | iday | huh? |
| 02:44.14 | brlcad | the site? |
| 02:44.33 | ``Erik | latest 'social network' |
| 02:44.42 | ``Erik | more geared for... y'know, grownups... i think :D |
| 02:44.45 | iday | no - i don't really do any of those... |
| 02:45.06 | iday | anything is for grownup compared to the likes of myshiite.. |
| 02:45.08 | ``Erik | I got an invite from old cow orkers, so I succumbed |
| 02:45.08 | brlcad | yeah, it's a prof. connections site .. kinda pointless unless you're job hunting maybe |
| 02:45.18 | brlcad | been up for a few years |
| 02:45.25 | ``Erik | heh, um |
| 02:45.32 | ``Erik | diesel sweeties mocked all that just recently |
| 02:45.35 | brlcad | not nearly as fun as ohloh or amihotornot |
| 02:45.49 | ``Erik | http://www.dieselsweeties.com/ |
| 02:45.58 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:46.30 | ``Erik | I remember in the very early days of 'ratemyrack' (thinkin' hotornot)... someone got a high score with a pick of a 19" rack loaded with gear... |
| 02:47.02 | iday | you and your funky sites... like the kitties... jeez... the kitties, man! |
| 02:47.16 | ``Erik | hahahaha |
| 02:47.26 | ``Erik | icanhascheezburger.com !!! |
| 02:47.29 | ``Erik | how can you not love it??? |
| 02:47.32 | iday | ha! |
| 02:47.39 | brlcad | clay kitten shooting? |
| 02:47.50 | ``Erik | I mean |
| 02:47.50 | iday | trying to get my damn neural network to learn XOR... not converging for some reason... |
| 02:48.05 | ``Erik | "cute" pics, lamer geek humor... ... :D |
| 02:48.10 | brlcad | ah |
| 02:48.14 | ``Erik | that's funny |
| 02:48.28 | ``Erik | I drug up my "box o' goodies" like half an hour ago |
| 02:48.28 | iday | did you see the xkcd? |
| 02:48.34 | ``Erik | xkcd is on my daily list |
| 02:48.39 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php |
| 02:49.03 | ``Erik | <-- tryin gto decide what ic's to put on his breadboard... the 16f88, or a few 74 series ttl's |
| 02:49.03 | iday | mrs roberts? |
| 02:49.11 | starseeker | brlcad: Where would you want to do your phd at? |
| 02:49.25 | iday | brlcad: phd? |
| 02:49.37 | iday | brlcad: ANSWER ME :-) |
| 02:50.02 | iday | ``Erik: must punch brlcad the next time you see him |
| 02:50.07 | ``Erik | um |
| 02:50.13 | ``Erik | he might punch back |
| 02:50.17 | starseeker | lol |
| 02:50.18 | iday | so? |
| 02:50.22 | ``Erik | and if ya hain't noticed, there may be a slight muscle mass difference |
| 02:50.35 | iday | come on - just drink some beer beforehand... |
| 02:50.59 | brlcad | iday: I did answer! |
| 02:51.07 | ``Erik | I don't get THAT stupid after imbibing, dude |
| 02:51.14 | brlcad | "yeah.. a little ways off still, but on my mind" |
| 02:51.34 | starseeker | Is John Hopkins a candidate for that sort of work? |
| 02:51.53 | iday | doh... musta missed it :( |
| 02:52.04 | iday | which is? |
| 02:52.07 | brlcad | i was looking at schools all weekend |
| 02:52.31 | brlcad | all spawned by an ad I ran across for a uni that specializes in alife |
| 02:52.41 | ``Erik | I don't want to nickle and dime my way to a masters, I'd want to go on hiatus and commit myself, at some place like cmu or stanford |
| 02:52.57 | iday | ahh |
| 02:53.00 | brlcad | starseeker: not the classes I'd take, it's not fun if it's something I already know |
| 02:53.06 | iday | yeah... a bit hard to do that anywhere... |
| 02:53.08 | ``Erik | starseeker: I think brlcad is good enough to understand how to learn |
| 02:53.47 | ``Erik | when I was doing my undergrad work, I figured out what profs knewwhat and bugged them after hours for the extra yard |
| 02:53.48 | brlcad | i lern good |
| 02:53.52 | ``Erik | "gud" |
| 02:54.07 | ``Erik | lurn how tew spll |
| 02:54.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:54.15 | iday | coledge stoodint |
| 02:54.16 | brlcad | guuda chese |
| 02:54.32 | starseeker | brlcad: Heh. You might get drafted - being a grad student kinda sucks in the "free will" department... |
| 02:54.33 | ``Erik | there was jabber about how spelling is being taught at lunch yesterday... |
| 02:54.52 | ``Erik | unfortunately, there's no good way to vocalize something like "hukt on fonix wurkd for me" |
| 02:55.13 | ``Erik | mmmm gouda |
| 02:56.01 | iday | ``Erik: probably headed to CMU myself |
| 02:56.03 | ``Erik | I REALLY need to stop reading sites like folklore.org and paul grahams site |
| 02:56.20 | ``Erik | um, hoolio is doing his bs there I think |
| 02:56.29 | iday | considering a leave of absence too |
| 02:56.37 | iday | hoolio? |
| 02:56.44 | ``Erik | last time I did my research, if languages and operating systems are your thing, it's really hard to beat cmu |
| 02:56.53 | iday | or robotics/ai! |
| 02:56.57 | ``Erik | yeah, bpoole |
| 02:57.08 | starseeker | ``Erik: Wouldn't it have to pertain to CAD in some shape or form, for you to get the OK to do it? |
| 02:57.28 | ``Erik | robotics are fun, ai is neat, but I tend to work more towards fundamental theory of computation myself :/ |
| 02:57.35 | starseeker | :-) |
| 02:57.37 | iday | :-) |
| 02:58.10 | iday | yeah - then you can write the 2-3 turing machine and prove it :-) |
| 02:58.10 | brlcad | starseeker: not really |
| 02:58.26 | ``Erik | heh, wanna copy of my 'brainfuck' suite? compilers, intepreter, and the beginnings of optimization stuff... |
| 02:58.43 | starseeker | brlcad: cool :-) |
| 02:58.48 | iday | urgh -- actually i was looking at llvm the other night |
| 02:59.25 | iday | maybe do some language experimentation once i get finished with the classes |
| 02:59.33 | ``Erik | my thinking is that any 'solid' optimization on brainfuck could provide a solid theory/lemme grade optimization for any language |
| 03:00.05 | iday | perhaps - but the primitives are so limited... no real high-level concepts there |
| 03:00.22 | ``Erik | 'partial evaluation', a pretty complex notion, is represented pretty easily in bf |
| 03:00.39 | starseeker | cmu is really good - their CMUCL lisp implementation and derivatives thereof are the best free lisps available for a lot of things |
| 03:00.52 | ``Erik | but it's not a PROVEN notion, and it's approached very ad hoc in practical optimization passes |
| 03:01.13 | iday | prove it and get a dissertation... done. |
| 03:01.17 | iday | like nash |
| 03:01.20 | ``Erik | if it were formalized at the low turing level, mebbe it'd find a much more mature invocation in 'pragmatic' languages |
| 03:01.34 | ``Erik | cmucl seems ok, I've been looking more at sbcl myself... |
| 03:01.47 | starseeker | sbcl is a derivative of cmucl |
| 03:02.29 | ``Erik | I'm learning emacs and slime against sbcl |
| 03:02.41 | starseeker | That's the right way to do it :-) |
| 03:02.45 | iday | oh my |
| 03:02.45 | ``Erik | <-- is a schemer, so is having some trouble adapting to the language, PLUS a new editor (being a vimmer) |
| 03:02.57 | iday | did Erik say he's touching emacs??? |
| 03:03.05 | ``Erik | yes, yes I did |
| 03:03.08 | ``Erik | emacs 22 and slime |
| 03:03.18 | iday | again, i say "oh, my" |
| 03:03.20 | ``Erik | and I've griped to brlcad about the suckiness of it |
| 03:03.24 | iday | hah |
| 03:03.29 | ``Erik | but I'm sticking with it |
| 03:03.31 | iday | i'm sure he's appreciated your rants |
| 03:04.07 | ``Erik | even though watching brlcad use emacs to edit a shell script on a projector made me definitely think that either emacs sucks ass or he sucks at using it... *cough* O:-) |
| 03:04.08 | brlcad | iday: have you seen the new aquaemacs? |
| 03:04.19 | brlcad | i just saw it today, installed it for bob... |
| 03:04.31 | brlcad | damn if it didn't finally seem usable and fully properly integrated |
| 03:04.56 | iday | i've been using it for several years - and yes I have the new one (unless there's a new one in the last month) |
| 03:05.15 | brlcad | i don't mean the original aqua emacs that was on sf.net and elsewhere |
| 03:05.19 | iday | except they screwed up the configuration again |
| 03:05.25 | iday | i know |
| 03:05.35 | brlcad | http://aquamacs.org |
| 03:05.39 | iday | you mean aquamacs |
| 03:05.41 | iday | yes |
| 03:05.42 | brlcad | yeah |
| 03:05.50 | brlcad | slick |
| 03:05.59 | starseeker | ``Erik: I have my beefs with Emacs, but the sense I get is that for many purposes it's so much better than anything else that people use it rather than do what it would take to make a better one... |
| 03:06.04 | brlcad | f'ing stupid icon, butgood port |
| 03:06.11 | iday | yeah - the only thing i use for non-java coding |
| 03:06.21 | brlcad | stupid cowhorse with poney tails |
| 03:06.22 | iday | no kidding |
| 03:06.35 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:06.36 | iday | ha |
| 03:06.42 | ``Erik | um |
| 03:06.54 | ``Erik | yes, it has its purpose... lemme find a url for ya... |
| 03:07.21 | brlcad | i might actually want to stop using console emacs sometime |
| 03:07.24 | starseeker | ``Erik: What's driving you to learn lisp? |
| 03:07.55 | brlcad | he's a scheme nut, using lisp makes him seem slightly less insane |
| 03:08.13 | ``Erik | um, long term scheme appreciation, and things like "mod-lisp" |
| 03:08.20 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r329 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/IRCClient.cpp src/irClientEvents.cpp): |
| 03:08.22 | CIA-27 | libirc: send the connection event when we first get some data, not when the MOTD is done. |
| 03:08.24 | CIA-27 | libirc: This gives us the best possible state as early as possible. |
| 03:08.28 | ``Erik | I want to use some kinda lithp backed system to figure out ajax |
| 03:08.39 | ``Erik | and I want persistant globals across the threads |
| 03:08.51 | starseeker | Ah :-) |
| 03:10.09 | iday | someone was already working on a lisp-based web framework using ajax... darned if i remember where i saw though - maybe off lemonodor? |
| 03:11.28 | starseeker | Is this the one? http://www.holygoat.co.uk/applications/cl-ajax/cl-ajax |
| 03:12.22 | starseeker | Or if you're a hunchentoot fan: http://85.65.214.241/misc/ht-ajax.html |
| 03:12.57 | iday | not the same one i saw... it had a working demo... maybe defmacro - yeah looks like defmacro: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-weblocks/ |
| 03:13.58 | starseeker | iday: Nice |
| 03:17.10 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 03:17.14 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: bob fixed a bug exposed with the opendb command where it would crash if you said |
| 03:17.16 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: no to create a new file. it was a windows-specific bug related to trying to |
| 03:17.18 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: close fd 0 (which happened to be the default descriptor value). now set to -1 |
| 03:17.20 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: and is checked. |
| 03:17.34 | ``Erik | cl-ajax is the one I've been looking at, yes |
| 03:17.49 | ``Erik | "nowadays"? dude, it's always been done |
| 03:18.25 | ``Erik | um |
| 03:18.32 | ``Erik | take viaweb for example |
| 03:18.35 | ``Erik | aka yahoo stores |
| 03:18.47 | starseeker | Oh, the famous example of making money with lisp :-) |
| 03:18.51 | ``Erik | paul graham and robert morris |
| 03:18.52 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:18.54 | ``Erik | well |
| 03:19.00 | ``Erik | ratchet and clank might be more famous |
| 03:19.06 | ``Erik | or autocad |
| 03:20.06 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:20.14 | ``Erik | someone said something along the lines of, um |
| 03:20.25 | ``Erik | "java drug the developers halfway to lisp" |
| 03:20.32 | starseeker | Yes, Guy Steele |
| 03:20.34 | iday | http://www.lambdassociates.org/lC21.htm |
| 03:20.42 | iday | hehe |
| 03:20.53 | starseeker | iday: Oh, you know about Qi? :-) |
| 03:20.55 | ``Erik | oh, guy steele, yes |
| 03:20.58 | ``Erik | the scheme guy! |
| 03:20.59 | ``Erik | hah |
| 03:21.06 | iday | haven't played with it... but yeah |
| 03:21.07 | starseeker | iday: I'm actually very interested in Qi |
| 03:21.08 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.08 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.08 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.08 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:22.00 | iday | starseeker: i'm interesting in seeing phase 3 |
| 03:22.04 | iday | interested |
| 03:22.25 | iday | although I |
| 03:22.39 | iday | i'm unimpressed with Tk choice |
| 03:22.46 | iday | that' |
| 03:22.46 | starseeker | iday: Any strong mathematics system like Axiom needs a strongly typed language, and SPAD (Axiom's current language) isn't even well defined |
| 03:22.52 | iday | kinda turned me off |
| 03:23.02 | starseeker | yeah, I don't care about the tk part (sorry tk fans) |
| 03:23.07 | iday | strongly typed you say... |
| 03:23.08 | ``Erik | tcl has never thrilled me |
| 03:23.27 | ``Erik | I dorked with it a little, thought it was lame, then got into thcheme, and viewed tcl has a halfassed wannabe :/ |
| 03:23.28 | iday | yeah - i need to play with qi - just to see |
| 03:23.44 | starseeker | iday: Aldor (www.aldor.org) was the replacement language for SPAD, and some would probably consider it the best mathematical programming language for a CAS available today, but they gummed up the license |
| 03:24.11 | starseeker | So we can learn from Aldor, but can't use it :-( |
| 03:24.59 | ``Erik | the last couple days, I've been looking more at asm and javame :( I'm turning lame *cry* |
| 03:25.02 | starseeker | Qi seems to have done many things the "right way" - implemented the new language inside lisp rather than having an external compiler, is willing to listen to and talk intelligently with critics |
| 03:25.04 | brlcad | iday: I think my arms are back to what they were, or really close |
| 03:25.05 | iday | interesting... haven't played with too many algebra systems myself. |
| 03:25.24 | starseeker | iday: It's my hobby obsession :-) |
| 03:25.25 | iday | brlcad: bastard. well - come over and play with your godson then |
| 03:25.32 | brlcad | (at least in size, not strength quite yet) |
| 03:25.40 | iday | brlcad: you can lift him up and down :-) |
| 03:25.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:25.51 | brlcad | but I am le sore |
| 03:25.56 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 03:26.12 | iday | and I am le tired |
| 03:26.17 | starseeker | iday: Started with Maxima, but once I learned enough to appreciate how really messed up (and theoretically weak) it was/is, Axiom seemed like the obvious choice |
| 03:26.44 | starseeker | iday: Not that Axiom isn't messed up too, but at least it's theoretically closer to what a "proper" CAS should be... |
| 03:26.46 | iday | starseeker: have played with maxima... but the interface was too clunky for me to get too into it |
| 03:26.46 | ``Erik | 'maxim'? the magazine? O.o |
| 03:26.48 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:26.55 | ``Erik | oi, twiggly |
| 03:26.58 | Twingy | I haven't had hot pockets in ages |
| 03:27.21 | Twingy | when you said maxim I was reminded of the maxim231 rs232 ttl cmos converter |
| 03:27.22 | ``Erik | *smirk* and the fire alarm hasn't gone off in ages, go figure :D |
| 03:27.26 | starseeker | iday: Yeah, that's a general problem with open source CAS |
| 03:27.33 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:27.37 | starseeker | iday: Did you try the TeXmacs interface? |
| 03:28.00 | starseeker | or wxmaxima? Those are probably the closest to tolerable |
| 03:28.07 | Twingy | cept I'm using TI7404's now because I can get away with 5V instead of 7 |
| 03:28.27 | iday | starseeker: no - i saw something like that was available... but at the time i was trying to use it for a class, and no time to futz with it |
| 03:28.33 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 03:28.45 | iday | starseeker: i tried wxmaxima the other day - argh |
| 03:28.54 | starseeker | Not what you need eh? |
| 03:29.10 | Twingy | btw Erik I finally got my DB-III |
| 03:29.18 | iday | starseeker: i |
| 03:29.32 | starseeker | iday: Doing something like Mathematica's interactive 2D input typesetting interface is probably the way to go in the long term, but it's a very difficult problem. |
| 03:29.38 | iday | starseeker: am just picky about interfaces (and I keep tapping the frikkin return key) |
| 03:29.45 | iday | yes |
| 03:29.59 | starseeker | iday: That's why I am interested in McCLIM and the Stix fonts, for example |
| 03:30.03 | starseeker | they are critical pieces |
| 03:30.04 | iday | however - lyx doesn't do too bad |
| 03:30.12 | starseeker | for one liners it's ok |
| 03:30.25 | ``Erik | w00t, how's gaytech going? |
| 03:30.31 | iday | haha |
| 03:30.48 | iday | twingy looked a bit stressed today... maybe that was the soot |
| 03:31.10 | Twingy | ``Erik, very difficult |
| 03:31.14 | ``Erik | one of the things that really endeared latex to me was that the layout was very divorced from the creative cycle |
| 03:31.19 | starseeker | There's an McCLIM app called GSharp that has done amazing work with interactive music typesetting using McCLIM, and I think many of those pieces will be helpful someday in a proper math GUI. But there are so many things to fix before the GUI... :-( |
| 03:31.30 | iday | ``Erik: of course |
| 03:31.32 | ``Erik | not even worth worrying about layout, just do the fucking content... |
| 03:31.54 | iday | only until you need to embed a graphic. and then things get a bit painful |
| 03:31.57 | starseeker | iday: Actually, if you don't need interactive typesetting I recommend Emaxima |
| 03:31.58 | ``Erik | opposed to 'word', where it's easy to distract yourself be tweaking visual elements instead of being productive... |
| 03:32.02 | ``Erik | eps ftw |
| 03:32.12 | iday | starseeker: have to take a look at it |
| 03:32.26 | ``Erik | encapsulated postscript |
| 03:32.37 | iday | or pgf - program your figures |
| 03:32.50 | starseeker | Brain child of Jay Belanger |
| 03:32.51 | ``Erik | imagemagick's "convert" can make 'em, and they just 'work' if you output to ps (then use ps2pdf or something) |
| 03:32.57 | iday | pdflatex uses pdf figures as well |
| 03:33.08 | starseeker | Emaxima rocks - I helped with some of the early debugging on it |
| 03:33.44 | ``Erik | aaaanyways, it seems to me that toys like LyX kinda defeat one of the biggest advantages :D |
| 03:33.55 | ``Erik | that was the reason for my tangent |
| 03:34.10 | iday | you don't have to do any "layout" in lyx... |
| 03:34.16 | starseeker | ``Erik: Lyx is actually an interesting compromise between hiding syntax details of markup and lack of interactive WYSIWYG behavor |
| 03:34.34 | starseeker | most of the problem with users of Lyx is they expect WYSIWYG |
| 03:34.42 | iday | saves some \begin{} and \end{} typing (but not all of it) |
| 03:34.56 | iday | WYSIWYM! |
| 03:35.07 | ``Erik | erm, you don't have vim macros for automatic teTeX output? |
| 03:35.14 | ``Erik | or, uh, emacs macros? |
| 03:35.37 | iday | i like the pretty equation visualization ;-) |
| 03:35.57 | starseeker | ``Erik: Well, we have AucTeX but for a lot of students who don't go that deep into the typesetting side of things Lyx is a good compromise |
| 03:36.10 | ``Erik | I'm often tempted to write a scheme<->tex(math mode) translator |
| 03:36.15 | ``Erik | I mean, they're almsot identical |
| 03:36.25 | iday | ``Erik: you |
| 03:36.31 | iday | 're hilarious sometimes, |
| 03:36.34 | starseeker | Lyx and TeXmacs have the best equation input setups I've ever used - Lyx has the best dialog I've ever used, and TeXmacs keybindings are extremely smooth once you know them |
| 03:36.35 | ``Erik | :d |
| 03:36.36 | ``Erik | :D |
| 03:36.49 | ``Erik | I also want to write a sexp<->xml translator |
| 03:36.59 | starseeker | ``Erik: cl-typesetting would like you :-) |
| 03:37.15 | Twingy | ``Erik, did you see crayon physics? |
| 03:37.26 | ``Erik | xml is just an obscenely ugly and verbose form of a subset of sexp |
| 03:37.32 | ``Erik | no? crayon physics? O.o |
| 03:37.43 | ``Erik | same nature as, um, britney speares doing semiconductor physics? |
| 03:37.48 | iday | Twingy: i sent it to brlcad earlier |
| 03:37.52 | iday | he may not have shared |
| 03:38.21 | brlcad | hm, who what? |
| 03:38.25 | starseeker | iday: Ahem - anyway, back to cad :-) |
| 03:38.28 | ``Erik | I think first I'll build yet another 74 based ripple adder |
| 03:38.29 | brlcad | i'm innocent |
| 03:38.33 | brlcad | she said she was 19 |
| 03:38.35 | ``Erik | THEN try to tie the simm to the pic |
| 03:38.43 | iday | brlcad: jeez |
| 03:38.57 | brlcad | okay 18 |
| 03:39.00 | iday | alright - since neural nets are off topic here, back to work |
| 03:39.02 | ``Erik | you're 30 now, quit hitting on the freshmen at the frat parties, step up to the sophmores |
| 03:39.05 | ``Erik | *cough* O:-) |
| 03:39.22 | starseeker | brlcad: There's a topic - can neural nets be applied to CAD? ;-) |
| 03:39.42 | brlcad | thought 'bout it some |
| 03:40.00 | ``Erik | starseeker: look at src/gtools/beset... genetic algo's applied to cad... |
| 03:40.19 | starseeker | iday: So, you're on topic after all ;-) |
| 03:40.33 | brlcad | mebbie but the dimensionality of most of the problems is a bitch for a nn, but you could use a nn as part of some bigger solution |
| 03:40.48 | ``Erik | evolving a good nn via a ga... etc |
| 03:41.01 | iday | well, i'll be using a EA to grow NN for my project this semester |
| 03:41.09 | iday | hopefully to implement target tracking |
| 03:41.25 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r330 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: when we are quiting, don't complain about not having network command handlers when the network itself is not valid. |
| 03:41.29 | brlcad | bpoole's beset GA showed quite a bit of feasibility of the approach for some problems |
| 03:41.32 | ``Erik | see, more of that 'better bullet' shit, I can't get behind that :( |
| 03:41.54 | brlcad | ``Erik: but you can get in front of them? :) |
| 03:41.55 | iday | um - not for bullets, for information |
| 03:42.02 | iday | surveillance |
| 03:42.10 | iday | jeez |
| 03:42.32 | ``Erik | I have no problem keeping kids from getting dead, but I get squeemish at the notion of getting kids dead... |
| 03:42.41 | brlcad | ~bzfrag ``Erik |
| 03:42.42 | ibot | ACTION skewers ``Erik with a super bullet |
| 03:42.44 | iday | i really wouln't work on the better bullet approach either (although, many good things can be used in nefarious ways) |
| 03:43.16 | starseeker | It's all tools in the end - in a battlefield situation, the idea is to keep at it until someone can't continue |
| 03:43.23 | rdv | brlcad: i'm interested in what adding IBMR to the software would entail. i realize it's difficult to estimate off the top of one's head |
| 03:43.23 | ``Erik | yeah, my threshhold for observing nefarious misuse has shifted in the last, ohhhh, 6, almost 7 years |
| 03:43.45 | brlcad | rdv: that's way too open-ended :) |
| 03:44.36 | starseeker | ``Erik: there's this, too - if you don't know what you might find being shot at someone someday, it's harder to design around it |
| 03:44.43 | brlcad | what do you mean by it? something with a gui that lets you pick points in multiple views? something programmatic? automatic/manual shape/edge/feature detection? console/command driven? |
| 03:45.17 | rdv | well for a first phase, maybe rectangular textures by picking 4 points on each of 2 pictures |
| 03:45.42 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r331 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: throttle the inital channel joins, do them one at a time, and only after we have the MOTD, and a valid nick |
| 03:46.00 | ``Erik | my observation is that if you give warmongering imbeciles a technology to defend against tomorrows bullets, they'll figure out how to field those imagined bullets. |
| 03:47.25 | ``Erik | albert einsteins quote, um, about not knowing what weapons ww3 will be fought with, but ww4 being fought with sticks and stones... :) strikes a chord with me |
| 03:48.08 | starseeker | ``Erik: Given the weapons we already have, it's just a matter of degree at this point. |
| 03:48.35 | ``Erik | the weapons are just a tool, unfortunately... it's the lack of civilization |
| 03:48.47 | starseeker | Correct |
| 03:48.58 | brlcad | rdv: if someone was already familiar with the libs and interfaces and could dedicate time to it, I could see having something minimal like that in a few weeks .. that quickly expands to a few months though as you get to actual general use for making more than boxes and outlined shapes |
| 03:49.15 | ``Erik | american aggresion inthe middle east has scared russia, who's arming up... so china gets scared and is arming up...it's a vicious feedback cycle |
| 03:49.43 | starseeker | Lack of tools won't stop anybody - most of history's wars managed to kill lots of people with what were in essence extreme refinements of the club... |
| 03:49.59 | brlcad | rdv: brl-cad already has a facilities for creating/manipulating/storeing/processing geometry, so most of the work would be focused on the actual gui and IBMR calcs |
| 03:50.11 | ``Erik | and given the near obliteration experiences in teh last half century, ... I doubt modern politicians have the ability to behave in rational ways like their predecessors |
| 03:50.34 | starseeker | Which underscores the need for everyone to vote in elections |
| 03:50.49 | ``Erik | then throw in 'hot' areas of extremists getting "wmd's"... israel stealing nuke base and adopting a policy of "share the pain"... wtf |
| 03:51.15 | ``Erik | if we don't become a space faring race awfully soon, we'll probably stop being a race. |
| 03:51.30 | ``Erik | also; whiskey good *grunt* |
| 03:51.41 | brlcad | get 'em! |
| 03:51.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:52.13 | ``Erik | yeah, I'm scared of the world situation. the rapid degredation is horrifying. :) |
| 03:52.30 | starseeker | There are so many good things that could come of that |
| 03:52.59 | ``Erik | I think it's real, but misplaced... I think it smells more like "we're still badasses, we can beat the damn commies... again" |
| 03:53.06 | ``Erik | opposed to real sustained advancement |
| 03:53.10 | brlcad | c'est la vie, have fun and enjoy life while you have it |
| 03:53.30 | starseeker | <snort> If we hadn't had the race for space, we would never have walked on the moon. |
| 03:53.33 | ``Erik | china seems to be avoiding the critical flaw the ussr had |
| 03:53.41 | brlcad | just/more likely to die on your way home (as you so flippingly found out already) |
| 03:53.49 | ``Erik | heh |
| 03:53.51 | ``Erik | well |
| 03:53.55 | starseeker | If we have to make it a race/contest to overcome human nature, oh well - at least it's better than slugging it out |
| 03:54.08 | ``Erik | I wasn't exactly driving home when I rolled the sports car :) |
| 03:54.22 | brlcad | doesn't matter, it's still in the odds |
| 03:54.45 | starseeker | arrgh - you rolled a sports car?? |
| 03:55.02 | ``Erik | yeah... but, y'know, if it takes me, it takes me... otherwise, I'll try to maximize the long term benefit of my activities as much as possible |
| 03:55.32 | ``Erik | yeah, starseeker... bmw m3... hit two trees, flipped, went upside down across a road, hit a hill and two other trees, ended up on the side |
| 03:55.46 | ``Erik | got lucky SO manytimes on that adventure |
| 03:56.15 | starseeker | holy cow |
| 03:56.16 | ``Erik | inches from a frame stop on the first tree which woulda killed me, arm happened to flop in during the roll so I got to keep it, etc... |
| 03:56.24 | ``Erik | megajoules. |
| 03:56.29 | ``Erik | I computed it before I went to court |
| 03:57.01 | starseeker | So you're taking the bus nowadays? |
| 03:57.08 | ``Erik | heh, no |
| 03:57.36 | ``Erik | insurance company totally paid everything off, and I was so damn impressed at how I stepepd out that I went and bought another m3 |
| 03:57.47 | ``Erik | haven't rolled this one yet ;) |
| 03:58.14 | ``Erik | not an issue, I never drive anywys :D |
| 03:58.19 | ``Erik | gas is too damn expensive |
| 03:58.24 | starseeker | Heh |
| 03:58.30 | starseeker | Yeah, that's for sure |
| 03:59.12 | ``Erik | brlcad and iday can attest... I make sure to keep the rear seats disassembled and leave my car key in the office when going to lunch :D |
| 04:00.04 | ``Erik | I'm tempted to junk my current truck and buy another and use that as my daily driver |
| 04:00.10 | ``Erik | hey, brlcad, wanna buy a truck? :D |
| 04:00.43 | brlcad | http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/07/13/the_six_most_feared_but_least_likely_causes_of_death.htm |
| 04:01.19 | ``Erik | heh |
| 04:01.38 | ``Erik | <-- has been rating auto accident and alcohol as his top two probably |
| 04:02.15 | brlcad | eh.. how about adding physical inactivity too :) |
| 04:02.24 | brlcad | you *ever* hit the apg gym? :) |
| 04:02.30 | ``Erik | not the apg one |
| 04:02.38 | ``Erik | I have one about 2 minutes walk from my house |
| 04:02.51 | brlcad | which you of course walk to every day :) |
| 04:02.58 | ``Erik | heh, hell no |
| 04:03.04 | brlcad | after a couple beers |
| 04:03.23 | ``Erik | but, uh, once in a while... and I do distance walks once in a while... |
| 04:03.37 | ``Erik | stairs all the time (there is no bathroom on the 'main' floor of my house) |
| 04:03.45 | starseeker | brlcad: It sounds like you can use ``Erik to do some real world testing of vehicle related ballistic modeling ;-) |
| 04:03.48 | ``Erik | pushups and sittups once in a while... |
| 04:04.06 | ``Erik | and my diet has gotten a lot better the last couple years, I mena, I went from 180 to 150 |
| 04:04.23 | ``Erik | 'nut' was helpful in that |
| 04:05.13 | ``Erik | heh |
| 04:05.16 | starseeker | hehe |
| 04:05.24 | starseeker | the truck would lose |
| 04:05.33 | brlcad | banking on them sorting out those problems in about 30 years |
| 04:06.15 | ``Erik | my parents have neither... my dad has high cholesterol, and so do I... but given the fluctuation on medical opinion of cholesterol... *shrug* probably aint' an issue |
| 04:06.23 | starseeker | ``Erik: just kidding around. That's one heck of a crash to have survived - you're very lucky |
| 04:06.42 | ``Erik | shit, when my dad went on an extreme low cholesterol diet, his readings went UP |
| 04:07.05 | ``Erik | starseeker: my cam was fucked up... but... http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/ |
| 04:07.35 | ``Erik | my community gym is 24/7...I have a proxy card :) |
| 04:07.47 | starseeker | Wow - actually in better shape than I would have expected |
| 04:08.18 | ``Erik | was a damn good car, and I got damn lucky |
| 04:08.25 | starseeker | I see why you got another one |
| 04:08.53 | brlcad | you should have put a "Designed for Windows XP" sticker on it |
| 04:08.56 | ``Erik | amusingly enough |
| 04:09.13 | ``Erik | after I killed the blue one, I bought one with "performance modifications" |
| 04:09.18 | ``Erik | and my insurance went down a lot |
| 04:09.36 | starseeker | That's some funky math |
| 04:09.46 | ``Erik | that was about when I turned 30 |
| 04:09.48 | ``Erik | ... |
| 04:10.13 | starseeker | Oh, OK. Age does have a lot to do with it |
| 04:11.01 | ``Erik | was weird, I paid like $1005 fora 6mo, wrecked... bought a newer fancier version... got a letter saying my rate had increased mor ethan 15% and here's my refund |
| 04:11.09 | ``Erik | and the nextcycle was like $835 or something |
| 04:13.53 | ``Erik | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.01 | ``Erik | if you have the opportunity to toe up against a tree |
| 04:14.07 | ``Erik | politely pass on that |
| 04:14.18 | ``Erik | trees're damn tough |
| 04:14.27 | starseeker | Good advice |
| 04:24.37 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 04:24.44 | ``Erik | unlike some punkassed bitch contractors |
| 04:24.59 | ``Erik | I'll get in trouble if I don't "punch the clock" at the right time |
| 04:26.12 | brlcad | there's no clock to punch if you just don't stop coding |
| 04:28.35 | ``Erik | IT walks circuits in the morning and evening. |
| 04:29.05 | ``Erik | if I cooked an overnight crunch, Iwouldn't be credited the overnight hours, as I hadn't filled out the proper paperwork |
| 04:30.50 | brlcad | could go for a brisk midnight walk :) |
| 04:31.29 | ``Erik | the 'greenway' here is closed after dark,a nd old fuckers will call the cops on you :( |
| 04:33.13 | *** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net) | |
| 04:46.50 | brlcad | damn, burnt the coffee a little |
| 04:47.21 | brlcad | mm.. and beowulf comes out today as well as love in the time of cholera |
| 04:58.39 | ``Erik | beowulf... the movie? |
| 04:58.48 | ``Erik | cuz, uh, ya MIGHT be a LITTLe behind for the book |
| 04:59.51 | ``Erik | when I lived in memphis, I was maybe 5-6 minutes walk from the library, and had started getting old enough to have an appreciation for history |
| 05:00.11 | ``Erik | so the first book I checked out was the oldest (source) book they had... beowulf... |
| 05:00.23 | ``Erik | and next was 'the prince' |
| 05:00.26 | ``Erik | then I moved :/ |
| 05:01.35 | ``Erik | project gutenburg seems promising, but at the computer, I keep dorking around instead of reading :( |
| 06:03.02 | brlcad | yeah, the movie |
| 06:03.42 | brlcad | i read the book too, hail hrothgar! |
| 06:03.54 | brlcad | but the movie has angelina hawtness |
| 06:04.24 | brlcad | the screenplay is probably no better than tomb raider, but still fun |
| 06:22.49 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 06:58.56 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03brlcad * r333 10/trunk/libirc/ (11 files in 6 dirs): s/receve/receive/g |
| 07:08.38 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
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| 09:39.45 | Defcon | happy hacking today |
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| 10:59.29 | *** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net) | |
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| 15:43.34 | brlcad | Defcon: heh, thx ;) |
| 15:45.05 | Defcon | haha :) |
| 15:45.10 | Defcon | was like 6 hours ago :) |
| 15:45.22 | Defcon | my hacking day is over in 15 minutes |
| 15:45.22 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:47.50 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:47.51 | Defcon | good :) |
| 15:48.00 | Defcon | did u have a productive day? |
| 15:48.20 | brlcad | a productive night |
| 15:48.24 | brlcad | it's now 10am :) |
| 15:48.25 | Defcon | :D |
| 15:48.33 | brlcad | been going since 9am yesterday |
| 15:48.44 | Defcon | 25hours straight.. :) |
| 15:49.45 | Defcon | my SQL Server is being a bitch :@ |
| 15:57.05 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: fail gracefully when xpush is called with a primitive, instead of crashing |
| 15:57.45 | Defcon | .. |
| 15:57.53 | Defcon | is that a good sign? |
| 15:59.04 | brlcad | (user visible) |
| 15:59.20 | ``Erik | well |
| 15:59.33 | ``Erik | if you have a moment, mind making sure I didn't change valid semantis? |
| 15:59.35 | ``Erik | semantics |
| 16:00.01 | brlcad | after my phonecon, sure |
| 16:00.47 | ``Erik | aight, I don't wanna chew on NEWS if my 'fix' breaks stuff... :D (staying in (and/or going home) for lunch?) |
| 16:01.34 | Defcon | cya next week |
| 16:01.38 | Defcon | <== going home |
| 18:59.17 | yukonbob | nice toenail polish |
| 18:59.52 | yukonbob | what do you call that colour? |
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| 20:01.10 | ManicMechE | quick question |
| 20:01.49 | ManicMechE | I just installed BRL-CAD 7.10.on my Mac |
| 20:02.00 | ManicMechE | 7.10.4 |
| 20:02.17 | ManicMechE | and I'm not sure where to find anything that it installed |
| 20:02.57 | ManicMechE | not in the applications folder |
| 20:03.04 | ManicMechE | not in the root directory |
| 20:03.13 | ManicMechE | not in my home directory |
| 20:08.55 | ``Erik | hum, mebbe look for /usr/brlcad ? |
| 20:09.39 | brlcad | ManicMechE: you'll need to run X11 (in Utilities folder), then run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged |
| 20:09.48 | brlcad | in the xterm that opens up |
| 20:09.55 | brlcad | alas we're still tied to X11 on the mac |
| 20:10.40 | ManicMechE | I found it on my own, but it seems angry |
| 20:10.43 | ``Erik | 30 hours now? |
| 20:11.08 | ManicMechE | Break on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTI |
| 20:11.08 | ManicMechE | NALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug. |
| 20:12.42 | ManicMechE | (sorry if I'm a bit of a noob, I've been teaching myself how to use the command line and just getting into oss and such) |
| 20:14.28 | brlcad | ManicMechE: did it actually say that? |
| 20:14.42 | brlcad | that's the first I'ver heard of that.. |
| 20:15.01 | brlcad | you can run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f and it won't detach |
| 20:15.23 | ManicMechE | yep |
| 20:18.19 | ManicMechE | hey, now I'm getting somewhere |
| 20:18.34 | ManicMechE | brlcad: thanks, I'll let you know if I have anymore questions |
| 20:27.06 | brlcad | ManicMechE: no problem, someones always here ;) |
| 20:27.30 | brlcad | ``Erik: and I entirely intend to stop at the gym on the way home for a couple hours |
| 20:38.21 | prasad1 | ah gym |
| 20:38.34 | prasad1 | lost all interest after i left |
| 20:38.37 | prasad1 | :( |
| 20:39.19 | iday | prasad1!!! :-) How' |
| 20:39.21 | iday | s it going? |
| 20:39.41 | iday | iday == jlo |
| 20:39.49 | ``Erik | heh, so you're punchdrunk and goofy... and you'll make sure your muscles are worn down and you're short on bloodsugar and energy? when're you driving, I wanna make sure I'm not ont he road at the same time O.o :D |
| 20:39.53 | iday | if you forgot |
| 20:40.12 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 20:40.16 | ``Erik | hennifer hopez |
| 20:40.19 | iday | brlcad is crazy... but we all know that |
| 20:40.25 | iday | what-eva ``Erik |
| 20:40.57 | iday | can we get over the j-lo thing? |
| 20:41.04 | prasad1 | jlo! |
| 20:41.07 | prasad1 | sup man |
| 20:41.09 | ``Erik | that southpark had some awesome gags :D |
| 20:41.18 | iday | prasad1: sup |
| 20:41.26 | prasad1 | wmrd? |
| 20:41.30 | iday | vtd |
| 20:41.33 | prasad1 | ahso |
| 20:41.34 | iday | :-) |
| 20:41.35 | prasad1 | cool cool |
| 20:41.46 | prasad1 | hows nettie and the lil tyke |
| 20:41.59 | iday | working on NN and vision based target tracking with GA |
| 20:42.19 | prasad1 | good stuff |
| 20:42.51 | brlcad | hm, prasad1 where you still here before or after the benchpress competition? |
| 20:43.05 | prasad1 | after |
| 20:43.13 | brlcad | okay, thought so |
| 20:43.34 | brlcad | yeah, you were here after I'd started back up rowing |
| 20:43.45 | brlcad | whining about going because you were trying to look good for her |
| 20:43.56 | prasad1 | wahahah |
| 20:44.06 | prasad1 | there's a gym in my bldg |
| 20:44.12 | prasad1 | i should step it up |
| 20:44.18 | prasad1 | need motivation :( |
| 20:44.44 | brlcad | look at your belly |
| 20:44.49 | brlcad | and skinny arms |
| 20:44.52 | brlcad | that's ll the motivation I need |
| 20:45.11 | prasad1 | lol |
| 20:45.12 | prasad1 | indeed |
| 20:46.15 | prasad1 | is the delicate flower still around? |
| 20:46.17 | prasad1 | heh |
| 20:46.40 | brlcad | no, you left remember |
| 20:47.06 | brlcad | actually she's up working for Mr. T now |
| 20:47.50 | prasad1 | really |
| 20:48.01 | prasad1 | that's good (right?) |
| 20:48.59 | brlcad | she seems to enjoy it |
| 20:49.11 | brlcad | and she "won" it, so yeah, it's good |
| 20:49.54 | prasad1 | orly? |
| 20:49.55 | prasad1 | heh |
| 20:51.21 | ``Erik | http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Any-Key-or-Any-Other-Key.aspx |
| 20:52.31 | iday | :-) |
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| 21:16.45 | ManicMechE | ok, so it was working great for a little while, now when I try to type at the mged prompt, it........does weird stuff |
| 21:17.51 | ManicMechE | and after killing it and starting again a couple times, it is miraculously fixed? |
| 21:18.08 | ManicMechE | methinks maybe it's not getting along with Leopard |
| 21:20.06 | brlcad | hrm, if you can repeat or quantify what you mean.. |
| 21:20.26 | brlcad | I've not seen any issues on Mac with the latest yet except for remote X11 |
| 21:20.59 | ManicMechE | I switched away in spaces for a moment |
| 21:21.12 | ManicMechE | when I switched back, both Terminal and the X11 windows were gone |
| 21:21.42 | ManicMechE | when I got them back (just fiddling around), trying to type at the mged prompt caused it to behave erratically |
| 21:21.48 | ManicMechE | such as the prompt disappearing |
| 21:21.54 | ManicMechE | it tabbing over |
| 21:22.11 | ManicMechE | it deleting bits of what was already there |
| 21:22.18 | ManicMechE | I had to kill it through the gui |
| 21:22.33 | ManicMechE | I started it again |
| 21:22.38 | ManicMechE | same business |
| 21:22.41 | ManicMechE | killed it again |
| 21:22.43 | ManicMechE | started again |
| 21:22.46 | ManicMechE | and now it works fine |
| 21:25.27 | brlcad | oh, I read about that with Spaces |
| 21:26.12 | brlcad | on the Tk mailing list, it's a bug in X11 fixed in latest sources but not in 10.5 yet |
| 21:26.24 | brlcad | affecting windows and input control |
| 21:26.37 | ManicMechE | I suspected as much |
| 21:26.57 | ManicMechE | moving x11 windows across spaces has already proven to be bad news for me |
| 21:27.11 | brlcad | there's actually one guy at Apple that was dedicated to work on the problem, he was asking for help from X11 devs |
| 21:27.36 | brlcad | apparently a really hard set of bugs |
| 21:28.56 | ManicMechE | I would imagine |
| 22:03.35 | *** part/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@70.108.244.218) | |
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| 23:16.41 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r335 10/trunk/libirc/ (12 files in 7 dirs): start a static lib to consolidate the IRC bot logic into a more manageable class. |
| 00:10.08 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
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| 00:42.53 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r336 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): |
| 00:42.53 | CIA-27 | libirc: get the botlib to connect and join channels |
| 00:42.55 | CIA-27 | libirc: stub out the major event callbacks. |
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| 03:59.48 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 04:00.13 | *** join/#brlcad tonsofpcs (n=EricAdle@129.3.157.94) | |
| 04:00.17 | ``Erik | have a beer with it and hit the sack after, boy :D |
| 04:00.37 | ``Erik | (given that I'm 3 hours late, I assume that's already happened) |
| 04:01.22 | tonsofpcs | does brl cad have a way of transfering 3d models to/from autocad? |
| 04:10.17 | ``Erik | um, dxf-g and g-dxf |
| 04:10.30 | ``Erik | but any 2d stuff in autocad will be lost, iirc |
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| 07:09.17 | CIA-27 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r338 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/vc8/ (botlib.sln botlib.vcproj): VC8 project for the botlib |
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| 13:14.29 | starseeker | backup time... |
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| 18:33.29 | yukonbob | ...~5h and no word from starseeker -- hope the backups are going well... |
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| 20:58.28 | alex_joni | brlcad: maybe it's best to talk in here.. not to spam #cia |
| 20:59.03 | brlcad | heh |
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| 21:44.24 | brlcad | alex_joni: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux |
| 21:46.24 | brlcad | especially for a model that only has 22k polys |
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| 21:52.55 | alex_joni | brlcad: wow |
| 21:53.21 | alex_joni | brlcad: what did you use to convert? |
| 21:54.00 | alex_joni | thanks btw :) |
| 22:10.48 | brlcad | alex_joni: ehm.. BRL-CAD :P |
| 22:12.19 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 22:12.19 | alex_joni | brlcad: oh, surprise :D |
| 22:12.47 | brlcad | .g is our file format |
| 22:13.27 | alex_joni | trying to import it into my CAD proggy.. but it doesn't like the IGS |
| 22:13.42 | alex_joni | (not your fault I bet.. I got the same thing with the iges I managed to convert) |
| 22:13.57 | brlcad | it was calculated as having a few degenerate faces, that might cause problems with some programs |
| 22:14.06 | brlcad | which CAD proggy? |
| 22:14.12 | alex_joni | I get a ACISERROR_IMPORT_NO_FACED: Import - The FIle has no faces to stitch. |
| 22:14.17 | alex_joni | brlcad: alibre xpress |
| 22:15.11 | brlcad | wow, that's odd |
| 22:15.16 | alex_joni | parametric solid modeler.. for a good price |
| 22:15.16 | brlcad | they gotta be using acis wrong |
| 22:15.28 | brlcad | acis undoubtedly can handle that iges |
| 22:15.45 | alex_joni | yeah, they probably only load a subpart of acis |
| 22:16.02 | alex_joni | load/interpret |
| 22:16.09 | brlcad | or just assuming something on the input file |
| 22:16.21 | brlcad | I can try generating iges files in different formats |
| 22:17.06 | alex_joni | nah, don't waste too much time on it |
| 22:17.11 | alex_joni | I'm sorry I did.. |
| 22:17.58 | alex_joni | sometimes I get caught up in doing things without remembering the big picture.. |
| 22:18.51 | brlcad | for what it's worth, here's what's in that file: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1e911662 |
| 22:20.59 | alex_joni | cool, thanks again |
| 22:22.06 | brlcad | got three more done, uploading |
| 22:23.16 | brlcad | one as a nurbs surface, another as trimmed nurbs, and a modified facet version |
| 22:23.36 | brlcad | it'll take about 10 min to upload |
| 22:24.27 | alex_joni | I see they're just as large .. |
| 22:24.41 | alex_joni | (roughly) |
| 22:24.43 | brlcad | it's not done uploading even one yet ;) |
| 22:24.59 | brlcad | they are all about the same size |
| 22:25.07 | alex_joni | yeah, I saw that it's still increasing |
| 22:25.33 | brlcad | it doesn't change the object, it's just a different encoding |
| 22:25.56 | brlcad | -f one is done |
| 22:26.35 | alex_joni | it'll take a bit till it's downloaded |
| 22:28.26 | brlcad | hm, guess I could have compressed the files.. |
| 22:28.38 | alex_joni | don't sweat it.. it'll get here :) |
| 22:30.24 | brlcad | nah, it's taking forever on my end to upload the 100MB over wireless :) |
| 22:30.39 | alex_joni | is it .g at least? |
| 22:30.41 | brlcad | they're all already compressed and uploaded now, .gz |
| 22:30.55 | brlcad | hm? |
| 22:31.30 | alex_joni | 802.11g ? |
| 22:31.37 | brlcad | .g is the brl-cad file format, our binary data file format -- there are three .gz files, though, that are gzipped |
| 22:31.44 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:31.52 | alex_joni | same on my end.. |
| 22:32.04 | brlcad | ahhh I get what you meant |
| 22:32.11 | alex_joni | ok, they're done.. checking now |
| 22:32.14 | *** join/#brlcad Maloeran_ (n=maloeran@glvortex.net) | |
| 22:33.06 | brlcad | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m789231c5 |
| 22:33.15 | Maloeran_ | Very much off-topic, but if anyone is curious to see some scuba diving pictures from the Whitsunday Islands in Australia : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/ |
| 22:33.42 | Maloeran_ | I didn't manage to get any good pictures of my shark unfortunately |
| 22:35.57 | brlcad | Maloeran_: fun |
| 22:36.01 | brlcad | that's one heck of a camera |
| 22:36.39 | Maloeran_ | Eh yes, mine is a lot cheaper than that ; just a typical good digital camera with an underwater case |
| 22:37.17 | Maloeran_ | A gift from my wife before I left :) |
| 22:38.07 | brlcad | ahh |
| 22:39.08 | brlcad | i can usually get two levels within a minute or so, but that last level is usually a little tough |
| 22:40.05 | brlcad | ah, I see your camera |
| 22:40.14 | Maloeran_ | Yes, same here. I always get stuck a long while with the last 4 corners |
| 22:40.33 | brlcad | hehe |
| 22:41.04 | yukonbob | heh -- tux looks like a pewter casting |
| 22:41.05 | brlcad | for corners are easy, its' the inner 5 |
| 22:41.46 | yukonbob | brlcad: you know what the original source of that linuxtux was? |
| 22:41.47 | Maloeran_ | So you do all the corners before the inner edges? |
| 22:41.57 | brlcad | no, inner first |
| 22:43.09 | brlcad | once you have the inner, the corners are just a series of CCRight, CCDown, CRight, CDown and you're done |
| 22:44.00 | alex_joni | yukonbob: stl is the oldest thing I have on the linuxtux |
| 22:44.05 | Maloeran_ | Hum. I need to better understand that last step, the rest goes rather smoothly |
| 22:45.51 | brlcad | once you have two levels done and the inner top done, put the four corners facing up |
| 22:46.06 | Maloeran_ | brlcad, I think your sequence works to fix the position, I |
| 22:46.13 | Maloeran_ | I'm not sure about the orientation |
| 22:46.29 | brlcad | actually it only fixes the orientation afaik :) |
| 22:46.34 | Maloeran_ | Oh. |
| 22:47.10 | brlcad | take a given corner, do the CCR, CCD, CR, CD until it's oriented right in that corner |
| 22:47.17 | brlcad | you'll have to do it either 2x or 4x |
| 22:47.23 | brlcad | depending which way it's flipped |
| 22:47.37 | brlcad | it'll seemingly mess up the bottom two levels, but don't worry about it |
| 22:47.46 | Maloeran_ | Interesting |
| 22:47.51 | alex_joni | brlcad: managed to overload my laptop with the import :) |
| 22:47.58 | Maloeran_ | Thanks, I |
| 22:48.00 | brlcad | once that corner is oriented right, turn only the top level to the next corner |
| 22:48.02 | brlcad | and do it again |
| 22:48.03 | Maloeran_ | I'll try that out |
| 22:48.07 | brlcad | that's the trick |
| 22:48.34 | brlcad | once you do all four like that, the top should be complete, and the bottom two levels will all align |
| 22:49.50 | brlcad | i forget where I learned that trick, but it's one of the few I remember being amazed at because it was so simple |
| 22:50.15 | brlcad | especially when it seems like the bottom is getting screwed up |
| 22:50.35 | Maloeran | It seems to have been complex enough to elude me for a while o.O |
| 22:50.49 | brlcad | alex_joni: heh |
| 22:51.14 | alex_joni | had a VM running, and the import.. that's too much even for a decent laptop |
| 22:51.26 | brlcad | ahh |
| 22:51.27 | alex_joni | (running out of memory right now..) |
| 22:51.42 | brlcad | acis pig |
| 22:51.44 | alex_joni | alibre is using up about 800MB of mem :D |
| 22:52.11 | brlcad | a pig (acis) being fed a pig file format (iges) .. |
| 22:52.43 | brlcad | the nurbs rep is going to be a lot more memory intensive than a simple mesh .. but still shouldn't be more than about those file sizes.. |
| 22:52.54 | alex_joni | it |
| 22:53.04 | alex_joni | it's only 30x the filesizes :D |
| 22:53.16 | brlcad | that's horrible |
| 22:53.28 | alex_joni | I'll give it a go at work on a bigger machine |
| 22:53.29 | brlcad | sounds like some sort of xml encoding |
| 22:53.47 | brlcad | not many things will balloon up the memory like that |
| 22:54.03 | brlcad | which one were you trying? |
| 22:54.08 | brlcad | the -s ? |
| 22:54.17 | alex_joni | the -t |
| 22:54.29 | alex_joni | the -s and -f crapped out with the same error as before |
| 22:54.39 | brlcad | ah, hm |
| 22:54.50 | brlcad | then not too hopeful |
| 22:54.50 | alex_joni | n/m.. it's not really important |
| 22:54.53 | brlcad | s is nurbs surfaces |
| 22:54.59 | brlcad | t is trimmed nurbs surfaces |
| 22:55.28 | brlcad | there shouldn't be any trimmings given it came from polygons :) |
| 22:55.39 | alex_joni | heh.. |
| 22:55.41 | brlcad | at least, there's not much to do |
| 22:56.15 | alex_joni | anyways, thanks a lot for the effort |
| 22:56.23 | alex_joni | don't waste any more time on this.. it's not worth it |
| 22:56.43 | brlcad | there's not much more I can do on my part ;) |
| 22:56.48 | brlcad | other than smooth the bot out |
| 22:57.06 | alex_joni | bot? |
| 22:57.20 | brlcad | er our name for triangulated models |
| 22:57.26 | brlcad | "Bag of Triangles" |
| 22:58.21 | alex_joni | heh.. nice name |
| 22:58.48 | alex_joni | brlcad: I'll just use blender to do what I want to.. |
| 23:00.18 | alex_joni | brlcad: got 5 minutes for another question? |
| 23:02.34 | brlcad | hmm.. doesn't smooth out so well... http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux/flat.png http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux/smooth.png |
| 23:02.37 | brlcad | sure |
| 23:03.19 | alex_joni | heh.. is that irssi? |
| 23:03.48 | alex_joni | looks just about the same as here :D |
| 23:04.11 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:04.47 | alex_joni | anyways.. the question is this: I have another app I work with, which uses some text file format for the 3D data it uses |
| 23:04.56 | alex_joni | http://pastebin.ca/778818 |
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| 23:05.59 | alex_joni | from looking at that, I think it the "1 24" describes the number of segments |
| 23:06.21 | alex_joni | the next 24 x 2 define the number of points for each segment |
| 23:06.36 | alex_joni | and then there's couples of start/endpoint (24 of them) |
| 23:06.53 | alex_joni | would you say I'm on the right way so far? |
| 23:08.19 | alex_joni | the next thing "2 12" I think defines faces/vertexes |
| 23:08.54 | brlcad | looks a lot like vrml |
| 23:09.02 | brlcad | yeah, looks like that's the case |
| 23:09.24 | alex_joni | ok.. you just answered my question (which I never asked..) |
| 23:09.35 | alex_joni | if there's some format which is similar to that.. |
| 23:23.49 | alex_joni | brlcad: so if I want to convert that file to some other format.. what would be in your oppinion the easiest thing to do? |
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| 00:28.59 | brlcad | alex_joni: hmm.. probably brl-cad format :) |
| 00:31.58 | alex_joni | brlcad: heh.. |
| 00:32.25 | brlcad | our ascii file format is very close to that, i'll give it a shot |
| 00:33.06 | alex_joni | brlcad: I managed to manually convert it some other format |
| 00:33.39 | brlcad | ah, great |
| 00:33.42 | brlcad | which one? |
| 00:34.18 | alex_joni | it's called REND ASCII |
| 00:34.18 | brlcad | off and obj would have been pretty easy to get to |
| 00:34.36 | alex_joni | bet you never heard of it.. had a sample file around |
| 00:34.52 | brlcad | yeah, not that I recall |
| 00:35.10 | alex_joni | I can do off in a second |
| 00:35.32 | alex_joni | http://web.axelero.hu/karpo/formats_m.html |
| 00:35.51 | alex_joni | some formats there.. |
| 00:36.39 | brlcad | kinda, cept was thinking a lot more information |
| 00:37.23 | alex_joni | yeah.. as a starting point at least |
| 00:37.48 | brlcad | like whether the format is polygonal-only, whether it supports brep, nurbs, implicits, volumetric, wireframe, 2D, 3D, CSG, solid geometry, etc |
| 00:37.51 | alex_joni | http://pastebin.ca/778884 |
| 00:37.51 | brlcad | yeah |
| 00:37.59 | alex_joni | I think that's the OFF translation |
| 00:39.52 | alex_joni | hmm.. loading it here with a crappy viewer doesn't work |
| 00:42.13 | alex_joni | ah, I know.. it's off by one |
| 00:42.43 | alex_joni | http://pastebin.ca/778890 |
| 00:57.19 | brlcad | hmm |
| 00:59.14 | alex_joni | I managed to convert it to IGES, but it doesn't contain any solids.. |
| 00:59.29 | alex_joni | just faces/vertices |
| 01:01.22 | alex_joni | brlcad: http://home.austin.rr.com/reubenrachel/reuben/3D/index.html that also proved usefull along the way |
| 01:03.33 | brlcad | I was hmm'ing because of something else :) |
| 01:04.26 | alex_joni | ok... I'm heading for bed.. |
| 01:04.35 | alex_joni | will look at writing a .sat from this tomorrow |
| 01:05.06 | brlcad | (we have a sat exporter) :) |
| 01:05.27 | brlcad | and what you made wasn't an OFF |
| 01:05.40 | brlcad | what format did you use? ply? |
| 01:05.58 | alex_joni | http://shape.cs.princeton.edu/benchmark/documentation/off_format.html |
| 01:06.28 | alex_joni | might be the wrong OFF format? |
| 01:06.32 | brlcad | ah, different off |
| 01:07.50 | alex_joni | http://people.scs.fsu.edu/~burkardt/data/off/off.html <- this the right one? |
| 01:08.15 | brlcad | that's the same as the other |
| 01:08.22 | brlcad | just better description |
| 01:12.58 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/conv/off/g-off.c): fix crash-on-exit bug during clean-up where the NOP curtree being returned wasn't having its magic number set (causing a bu type check to fail) |
| 01:17.23 | alex_joni | brlcad: is there a guide to install brlcad? |
| 01:17.34 | brlcad | guide? |
| 01:17.46 | alex_joni | binaries vs. cvs ? |
| 01:17.46 | brlcad | there's the INSTALL file |
| 01:18.09 | brlcad | yeah, that file talks about both |
| 01:18.28 | brlcad | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/INSTALL |
| 01:19.03 | brlcad | ~cadcvs |
| 01:19.04 | ibot | To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad |
| 01:19.07 | alex_joni | is 7.8.0 really outdated? |
| 01:19.13 | brlcad | very |
| 01:19.22 | alex_joni | VM it is then :) |
| 01:19.24 | brlcad | though if you're on Windows, that's the easiest |
| 01:19.37 | brlcad | for any other OS, there are much better options |
| 01:19.40 | alex_joni | I have a dapper running on VMware server |
| 01:19.56 | alex_joni | s/dapper/ubuntu 6.06 dapper drake/ |
| 01:20.50 | alex_joni | hmm.. how is sf CVS nowadays? |
| 01:21.30 | brlcad | word of caution if you're just curious, there are tons of command-line tools and a rather non-intuitive google (makes blender look like mspaint in terms of usability) |
| 01:21.30 | brlcad | sf CVS has been great for over a year |
| 01:21.56 | brlcad | they had a slew of issues after svn went on-line and before the cvs servers were upgraded |
| 01:22.11 | alex_joni | we moved away from SF with our CVS (for emc) |
| 01:22.12 | brlcad | but even that was mostly delays for anon users |
| 01:22.27 | brlcad | since then, it's been pretty ideal |
| 01:22.33 | alex_joni | so now it's synched updates for anon? |
| 01:22.37 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:22.41 | brlcad | for a while |
| 01:23.01 | brlcad | that was part of the upgrade |
| 01:23.37 | brlcad | we'll be moving to svn shortly, have yet to have an issue with sf's svn service for other projects |
| 01:24.35 | alex_joni | I see.. ok, I'm glad it works |
| 01:24.45 | alex_joni | when we moved away it was pretty horrible.. |
| 01:24.55 | alex_joni | had a couple of weekends when it was completely down |
| 01:25.34 | brlcad | yeah |
| 01:25.47 | brlcad | their guys don't work on the weekends :) |
| 01:26.19 | brlcad | and then they had that hardware failure that kept things down for about a week |
| 01:29.05 | alex_joni | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:29.16 | brlcad | is the mesh already solid? |
| 01:29.20 | alex_joni | mesh is probably not the right word.. |
| 01:29.31 | brlcad | i.e. does it form a closed topology |
| 01:29.56 | alex_joni | say I have the obj file I pastebin'ed the last.. |
| 01:30.07 | brlcad | okay |
| 01:31.06 | alex_joni | http://pastebin.ca/778923 |
| 01:31.20 | alex_joni | I don't think that has a closed topology |
| 01:31.30 | alex_joni | it only defines some faces.. |
| 01:38.21 | brlcad | hm, it's just a thin box |
| 01:41.18 | alex_joni | yes |
| 01:41.19 | brlcad | it does close space |
| 01:41.29 | alex_joni | (this is just an example.. I have more complex ones) |
| 01:41.43 | alex_joni | yes, it closes.. but that's only implicit |
| 01:41.53 | brlcad | yes, but that doesn't matter |
| 01:41.56 | alex_joni | (it doesn't reuse the points for the other faces) |
| 01:42.21 | alex_joni | if you say so.. I'll take your word for it :) |
| 01:42.29 | brlcad | that's the importer's job during conversion to determin if you're coming from a file format that doesn't have structure |
| 01:43.01 | brlcad | and even if it doesn't, if you have software that has a shrinkwrap feature, then you can create closure |
| 01:43.18 | alex_joni | anything like that in brlcad? |
| 01:43.29 | brlcad | but in that particular case, since everything does line up neatly, you don't even need that |
| 01:43.52 | brlcad | brl-cad will evaluate the connectivity and stitch things together |
| 01:44.16 | alex_joni | cool.. (I finished installing the doze brlcad, the cvs one is still checking out..) |
| 01:44.36 | brlcad | we don't have shrinkwrapping, that's pretty complicated to code up reliably :) |
| 01:45.11 | brlcad | but we have things that are similar that will check and/or guarantee that the result is either solid geometry, or fail the conversion |
| 01:45.33 | brlcad | (without remeshing) |
| 01:46.06 | brlcad | generalized shrinkwrapping requires remeshing |
| 01:46.07 | alex_joni | I'm fairly confident all the stuff will line up just like this one |
| 01:46.23 | alex_joni | they were solids at one point.. |
| 01:46.24 | brlcad | what's your goal? |
| 01:46.36 | alex_joni | viewing/manipulating them |
| 01:46.40 | brlcad | that's a good sign |
| 01:46.43 | alex_joni | mostly viewing |
| 01:47.01 | alex_joni | so I could live with viewing the meshes only (if only that works..) |
| 01:47.09 | brlcad | if you still have them in a solid format, it would be even better to use a file format that preserves the topological structure |
| 01:47.37 | brlcad | at least one that can, as opposed to one that can't (e.g. iges does both) |
| 01:48.31 | alex_joni | I don't.. if I would it would have been easy |
| 01:54.34 | alex_joni | hrmm.. I did this: I have some crappy freeware that created a iges out of the obj, I converted the iges to g (iges-g complained there's no solid inside, so I had to use -d -3), then I tried to convert it back g-iges, but it's quite empty |
| 01:59.58 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: if there's no directory pointer, or no callbacks, there's nothing to do |
| 02:03.09 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: make sure the object may be looked up |
| 02:06.07 | brlcad | alex_joni: try this one http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux/box.iges |
| 02:07.13 | brlcad | that's what I get going obj->ply->g->iges |
| 02:08.51 | alex_joni | I get the same old error.. The File has no faces to stich |
| 02:11.52 | alex_joni | how did you go obj->ply ? |
| 02:48.30 | brlcad | oh, I had a converter local |
| 02:49.01 | brlcad | and we've not gotten around to writing the obj-g just yet |
| 02:50.10 | alex_joni | hmm.. I think I got a bit further |
| 02:50.23 | alex_joni | I have now something that looks like a .g solid |
| 02:50.40 | brlcad | rt -F/dev/Xl to get a quick render |
| 02:51.05 | alex_joni | under doze? |
| 02:51.12 | brlcad | under anything |
| 02:51.18 | brlcad | it's one of our tools/commands |
| 02:51.36 | brlcad | works on the mged command prompt if you have a .g |
| 02:52.18 | alex_joni | http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/sandbox/platte2.g |
| 02:53.02 | alex_joni | fb_open: no such device "/dev/X1". |
| 02:53.29 | brlcad | ex ell |
| 02:53.31 | brlcad | Xl |
| 02:53.49 | brlcad | or wgll if you're on windows |
| 02:53.58 | brlcad | er ogll |
| 02:54.25 | brlcad | interesting, something remeshed that box for you |
| 02:54.44 | alex_joni | yes.. I managed to convert the obj to some iges |
| 02:54.51 | brlcad | it's actually a nurbs surface |
| 02:54.55 | alex_joni | then when I did the iges-g it said there's some nurbs there |
| 02:55.04 | alex_joni | and that it's gonna convert it to a slid |
| 02:55.05 | alex_joni | solid |
| 02:56.33 | brlcad | yeah, it's a decent prototype of a "better" interface |
| 02:57.14 | brlcad | it was more of a proof-of-concept, still not anywhere near as useful as mged |
| 02:58.00 | alex_joni | hmm.. g-iges crashes when I try to get an iges out of the .g |
| 02:58.21 | alex_joni | I tried "g-iges platte2.g nn -o tt.igs" |
| 02:58.59 | alex_joni | g-iges: failed to translate nn to IGES format |
| 03:00.36 | brlcad | ahh, yes |
| 03:00.48 | brlcad | the nurbs that it imported as cannot be exported |
| 03:01.26 | alex_joni | think I'll call it a night |
| 03:01.40 | alex_joni | sun's coming up soon.. thanks for all the help & patience |
| 03:01.43 | alex_joni | good night |
| 03:01.50 | brlcad | np |
| 03:02.00 | brlcad | lemme know if can do anything else to help |
| 03:02.18 | alex_joni | I'll sleep it over, and see where I can get :) |
| 03:02.26 | brlcad | someone's always here ;) |
| 03:02.55 | alex_joni | yeah, well.. SWPadnos would be of no use :D |
| 03:02.58 | brlcad | fwiw, the box imported earlier as a bot that could be converted to a solid bot as you had it |
| 03:03.17 | alex_joni | really? |
| 03:03.18 | brlcad | and that g-iges crash is fixed in later version if it's the one I'm thinking of |
| 03:03.40 | alex_joni | any ways to do the bot_>solid bot convert? |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | run "get botname mode" |
| 03:04.31 | brlcad | does it say surf or volume? |
| 03:04.44 | brlcad | if the edges align, you can just set it to volume |
| 03:05.09 | alex_joni | it says error: botname: not found |
| 03:05.46 | brlcad | botname is the name of your bot.. |
| 03:05.56 | alex_joni | oh :D I have one? |
| 03:06.05 | brlcad | yes |
| 03:06.13 | brlcad | tops to see the top-level geometry |
| 03:06.19 | brlcad | l objectname to see that object |
| 03:06.26 | brlcad | (textually) |
| 03:06.35 | brlcad | (and that's another "ell") |
| 03:07.06 | brlcad | if it's a bot, it'll look like: |
| 03:07.22 | brlcad | mged> l ply_bot |
| 03:07.23 | brlcad | ply_bot: Bag of triangles (BOT) 36 vertices, 12 faces (unoriented) This is a surface with no volume face 0: (408000 283000 10000), (408000 283000 0), (408000 -283000 0) |
| 03:07.36 | alex_joni | iges_drawing: n-Manifold Geometry solid (NMG) maxindex=336 |
| 03:08.05 | brlcad | what's that from? |
| 03:08.11 | alex_joni | l iges_drawing |
| 03:08.20 | alex_joni | tops said 'iges_drawing' |
| 03:08.22 | brlcad | i mean, where did iges_drawing come from |
| 03:08.30 | brlcad | iges-g with .. some option |
| 03:08.44 | alex_joni | think I ran it without |
| 03:09.30 | brlcad | default would be ideal |
| 03:09.41 | brlcad | looks like you did -p or something |
| 03:10.01 | alex_joni | -d -3 |
| 03:10.22 | brlcad | hm, shouldn't need either of those |
| 03:10.31 | alex_joni | This IGES file contains drawing entities, but no solid model entities. You may |
| 03:10.31 | alex_joni | convert the drawing to BRL-CAD by 'iges-g -d -o file.g PLATTE1.IGS'. Note that the resulting |
| 03:10.32 | brlcad | is it actually a drawing |
| 03:10.34 | alex_joni | BRL-CAD object will be a 2D drawing, not a solid object. You might also try the |
| 03:10.37 | alex_joni | '-3' option to get 3D drawings |
| 03:10.45 | brlcad | ah |
| 03:11.00 | brlcad | drawings suck |
| 03:12.40 | brlcad | try running: g-nmg -b -o file2.g file.g iges_drawing |
| 03:12.52 | alex_joni | I guess I'll bother you about the obj->ply->g converter sometimes then |
| 03:13.12 | alex_joni | (don't have g-nmg on the doze box) |
| 03:13.44 | alex_joni | (still building the CVS version) |
| 03:13.58 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/ply/ |
| 03:14.10 | brlcad | ahh, yeah |
| 03:14.33 | brlcad | that windows build only has about 25% of the tools |
| 03:15.24 | brlcad | gcc -I. -o obj-ply *ply*.c |
| 03:16.39 | alex_joni | I'll do that some other time.. now really going to bed (5am here) |
| 03:20.22 | alex_joni | thanks & goodnight |
| 03:21.57 | brlcad | cya, have a good night |
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| 11:47.42 | butti | good morning |
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| 16:54.01 | ``Erik | hah |
| 16:54.08 | ``Erik | the last starfighter is on scifi |
| 17:10.30 | brlcad | heh, tis what I was watching too |
| 17:15.02 | alex_joni | brlcad: hi.. managed to write a converter for my needs (it outputs obj correctly) |
| 17:19.50 | brlcad | cool |
| 17:20.32 | alex_joni | do you happen to know if obj has support for multiple things inside? |
| 17:20.51 | alex_joni | (like setting up a scene with a couple objects?) |
| 17:21.34 | brlcad | alex_joni: yes, obj does |
| 17:21.42 | brlcad | they just follow one after the other |
| 17:21.46 | alex_joni | ok, cool.. will finish reading the docs then :) |
| 17:22.13 | brlcad | g line followed by some # v lines and # f lines, repeated |
| 17:22.27 | brlcad | with optional vn of course and a few other |
| 17:23.34 | alex_joni | gotcha |
| 17:32.01 | ``Erik | man those graphics were chintzy :D |
| 17:40.02 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: would be fun to model this in BRL-CAD http://goodnesstruthandbeauty.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/escher.jpg |
| 17:40.35 | Z80-Boy | Or this http://britton.disted.camosun.bc.ca/escher/waterfall.jpg |
| 17:41.50 | Z80-Boy | They already did it in LEGO http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/images/lego_relativity_1.jpg |
| 17:42.31 | alex_joni | Z80-Boy: http://www.gravestmor.com/strips/escher%20lego.jpg |
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| 19:03.01 | alex_joni | brlcad: around? |
| 19:20.49 | ``Erik | more of a square, actually |
| 19:22.38 | alex_joni | ``Erik: that's with smoothing turned off |
| 19:23.31 | ``Erik | or a really BAD tesselation |
| 19:29.33 | alex_joni | heh |
| 19:32.57 | butti | hello boys |
| 19:33.41 | butti | Just want to see if you are fine |
| 19:53.34 | alex_joni | brlcad: I managed to put more than one component into the .obj, the problem is that the components I have aren't aligned. |
| 19:53.50 | alex_joni | I guess there's no way to specify position and orientation of a .obj group |
| 20:07.27 | ``Erik | ".obj group"? |
| 20:07.54 | alex_joni | there's a thing called group inside .obj (g ..) |
| 20:08.01 | alex_joni | and you can have more than one |
| 20:13.41 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: speling |
| 20:23.55 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I just made a brick chimney. I think making models of brick chimneys in BRL-CAD won't be difficult because you can fill all the mortar in at once by subtracting the bricks from a simple shape |
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| 22:18.36 | poolio | allo bob |
| 22:21.19 | tarzeau | hi |
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| 23:24.59 | brlcad | howdy howdy |
| 23:32.57 | yukonbob | brlcad: what the bug? |
| 23:48.44 | poolio | It's an oversized cockroach |
| 00:13.55 | yukonbob | brlcad vs. The Bug |
| 00:13.57 | yukonbob | ttp://coolkits.net/G%20vs%20Mothra.jpg |
| 00:14.02 | yukonbob | *http |
| 00:44.24 | CIA-27 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (dg_obj.c wdb_obj.c): remove dead code. there's closedb instead of overriding default close command, tol is a wdb_obj command. |
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| 07:31.11 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_rt_isect.c: yet another place to report an unknown class instead of bombing out. |
| 07:32.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_class.c: if we exhaust the retry count, just give up instead of bombing out. otherwise this can cause havoc for even simple optional operations like trying to fix normals. |
| 07:37.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: |
| 07:37.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: if we encounter an invalid shell with bad results, stop processing entirely. |
| 07:37.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: this avoids an avalanche of cascaded failures and potential bomb situations |
| 07:37.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: where we can usually proceed. this particular problem was encountered during |
| 07:37.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: g-iges that had a shell that could not be classified (resulted in infinite loop |
| 07:37.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: and array indices that went out of bounds, eventually crashing). |
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| 07:53.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed) |
| 07:53.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: fixed variety of g-iges and other exporter crashes and graceful handling of mesh |
| 07:53.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: normal failures. started with a particular model that was failing in the bot's |
| 07:53.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: tess() routine during the expensive nmg_fix_normals() processing. turned out |
| 07:53.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: that the model was going amuck while trying to determine shell orientation |
| 07:53.04 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: eventually overflowing a char in an inf loop until it crashed. the specific |
| 07:53.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: cause of the inf loop wasn't determined, but it does now detect the shell |
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| 09:46.04 | lachyg | Hi. Is there a way in which I can rotate a combination? Or am I going about things in the wrong way? |
| 09:46.43 | lachyg | I've created a combination led.c = u led.plastic.r u led.metal.r, and want to rotate it around. Is there a way to do this? |
| 09:47.13 | Z80-Boy | lachyg: I do it by putting the combination into another combination, then opening the another combination in vi using red, loading a unit matrix from /home/clock/m and then editing the matrix to get the desired rotation. I need only rotation in multiples of 90 degrees. |
| 09:47.39 | Z80-Boy | the unit matrix is 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 |
| 09:47.55 | lachyg | So there's nothing simple like rot led.c 0 0 90? |
| 09:48.42 | Z80-Boy | maybe is but for me figuring out which command it is what parameters it has and what meaning these parameters have and what exactly it does is about 2 days, whereas the aforementioned sequence is about 1 minute. |
| 09:49.18 | Z80-Boy | Cause the documentation is missing a lot of important information and I always forget it when I figure it out, because I use BRL-CAD not continuously, but intermittently. |
| 09:49.33 | lachyg | Ok. I'll probably have to write a script for it then, as I have not the patience to do it 12 times ;) |
| 09:49.38 | lachyg | Ah, I see. |
| 09:49.42 | lachyg | Thanks for your help. |
| 09:49.51 | Z80-Boy | you might benefit in finding out the command |
| 09:50.07 | Z80-Boy | Don't worry, you don't find it in the official doc. You either have to ask brlcad or reverse engineer the huge codebase. |
| 09:50.12 | Z80-Boy | Or maybe experiment out |
| 09:50.25 | lachyg | heh |
| 09:50.43 | Z80-Boy | Like I never know if the angles are counter or clockwise, which axis is the first rotation around, if it rotates in the source or destination space etc. |
| 09:50.51 | Z80-Boy | With the matrix it's simple |
| 09:51.28 | Z80-Boy | You start with your sub-model then apply the matrix and then you get what's one level higher in the hierarchy. |
| 09:51.44 | Z80-Boy | The first 4 numbers are what goes into X upper in the hieararchy |
| 09:52.18 | Z80-Boy | the first, fifth, ninth numbers are concerning X in the original submodel. |
| 09:52.34 | Z80-Boy | Was also hell figuring if it's like this or lower/upper is swapped |
| 09:53.31 | lachyg | Hmm, I probably should read my linear algebra book again. |
| 09:53.32 | Z80-Boy | and in the cross, where is the letter X that's pointing into the positive direction |
| 09:53.40 | Z80-Boy | no you don't need linear algebra |
| 09:53.46 | Z80-Boy | It's just like drink mixing |
| 09:54.09 | Z80-Boy | you have 3 bottles x y z and 3 glasses X Y Z |
| 09:54.20 | Z80-Boy | the matrix tells you how much x, y, z should go into X |
| 09:54.25 | Z80-Boy | how much x, y, z should go into Y |
| 09:54.32 | Z80-Boy | how much x, y, z should go into Z |
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| 09:55.34 | lachyg | Yeah---I just need to figure out the theory behind it again. Thanks for your help. |
| 09:55.45 | lachyg | Ah, looks like matrices are the only way to go. |
| 09:56.50 | Z80-Boy | lachyg: no it was actually assumed that people will use those commands to make it simpler so they don't have to crunch matrices in their heads |
| 09:56.59 | Z80-Boy | But because of bad documentation, crunching matrices is easier for me ;-) |
| 09:57.24 | lachyg | http://www.nabble.com/20-questions-t3863486.html |
| 09:57.26 | lachyg | #2 there |
| 09:59.28 | Z80-Boy | Oh lol this should be in the official doc and not on google resul page number 1137 |
| 10:01.14 | lachyg | I suspect so. |
| 10:01.41 | Z80-Boy | Also if you create a complicated model like I do then redrawing the display takes a minute |
| 10:01.53 | Z80-Boy | so one minute to shift, one minute to zoom, one minute to change view etc... |
| 10:02.01 | Z80-Boy | really blazing workflow speed ;-) |
| 10:02.27 | Z80-Boy | ANd I have 1500 MHz Pentium III! |
| 10:02.57 | lachyg | heh |
| 10:03.09 | lachyg | Could be worse. |
| 10:03.12 | lachyg | Could be paper. |
| 10:03.12 | Z80-Boy | I suspect because someone got an idea to wedging a blotware called X Windows system between the CPU and the AGP bus |
| 10:03.21 | Z80-Boy | X Window is fast in theory but slow in practice ;-) |
| 10:03.39 | Z80-Boy | Moving a piece of paper 20cm right doesn't take a minute, but a second. |
| 10:04.30 | Z80-Boy | You can draw a line in a microsecond, but if you first have to email the coordinates to the X Window System through a socket it gets horrible |
| 10:06.04 | Z80-Boy | I think I should report a bug |
| 10:06.08 | Z80-Boy | "mged dead slow" ;-) |
| 10:06.43 | Z80-Boy | and that's wireframe! |
| 10:07.56 | Z80-Boy | Cause it took me a whole bus trip to put model piece A to model piece B so that they touch each other |
| 10:12.08 | lachyg | Ah, think I've figured it out. |
| 10:12.20 | lachyg | Made a new combination like you said, then used arced |
| 10:15.59 | Z80-Boy | oh what does it do? |
| 10:16.34 | lachyg | Applies a matrix transformation to an element of a combination. |
| 10:17.00 | lachyg | arced led.1.t/led.c matrix rmul rot 0 0 90 |
| 10:17.02 | Z80-Boy | omg why is it called arced? With such a name I would expect to do something with arcs |
| 10:17.33 | Z80-Boy | lachyg: where did you find out you should type "arced led.1.t/led.c matrix rmul rot 0 0 90"? |
| 10:18.07 | lachyg | In the documentation (Volume 2), appendix A, page 158 |
| 10:19.48 | Z80-Boy | Interesting I'll look there. |
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| 10:41.35 | lachyg | Ah, now I've got it. You have to remember that your transformations are in the element's co-ordinate space. |
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| 12:41.47 | Defcon | wb all :) |
| 12:42.29 | Defcon | [13:31:07] <@brlcad> lachyg: oed / led.c/led.plastic.r/path/to/some/prim |
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| 13:50.08 | Defcon | <Z80-Boy> It's just like drink mixing |
| 13:50.15 | Defcon | .. |
| 13:50.18 | Defcon | how... :) |
| 14:06.48 | Z80-Boy | Defcon: how what? |
| 14:08.12 | Defcon | i didn't get your logic |
| 14:08.18 | Defcon | but i guess i do now |
| 14:11.50 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487721C.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:14.20 | brlcad | lachyg: was starting to say that the 'oed' command is another way to do what you were asking, you go into "object edit mode" on an object specifying where you want to apply a matrix and what primitive to use a coordinate system reference |
| 14:14.56 | brlcad | then you can use the 'orot' or 'objrot' commands to do a rotate |
| 14:15.14 | brlcad | those and other commands are listed on the mged cheat sheet reference |
| 14:16.44 | Defcon | hmmm.. ok |
| 14:16.46 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:26.55 | brlcad | in mged lingo, an "arc" is the same as an object "path", not a 2D/3D geometric arc but a logical arc through the geometry hierarchy |
| 14:27.26 | brlcad | arced could have just as readily been named pathed, but the 'arc' convention goes back to early 80's |
| 14:29.14 | brlcad | so when you're specifying an 'oed' object edit, think of all paths to primitives in your model, /comb/path/to/region/to/primitive .. you can apply a matrix after any one of those '/'s so you separate that to a left and right-hand side |
| 14:30.25 | brlcad | so if I wanted to apply a matrix over the instance of region used in that 'path' object, I would have specified oed /comb path/to/region/to/primitive |
| 14:32.58 | Defcon | impressive |
| 14:33.11 | Defcon | a matrix = an array(in vb)? |
| 14:35.35 | brlcad | hm? |
| 14:35.46 | brlcad | a matrix can be stored as an array in most languages |
| 14:36.05 | brlcad | it's just a list of 4 or 9 or 12 or 16 numbers usually :) |
| 14:36.20 | Defcon | ah |
| 14:36.21 | brlcad | usually 16 for 3D homogeneous coordinates |
| 14:36.31 | Defcon | lol |
| 14:36.34 | brlcad | 4x4 matrix |
| 14:36.41 | Defcon | still way to advanced for me |
| 14:36.42 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:40.34 | Z80-Boy | I never know which *ed command can be used in which mode |
| 14:40.41 | Z80-Boy | So I never use them that's the safest ;-) |
| 14:42.01 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:42.03 | Defcon | true |
| 14:42.08 | Z80-Boy | Matrix is just a way how to mix outputs from inputs |
| 15:12.04 | ``Erik | I thought it was where neo used to live |
| 15:12.47 | Defcon | :D |
| 15:30.02 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: note fix to xpush |
| 15:37.03 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you use CRT or LCD? |
| 15:38.29 | Defcon | whow first line in this channel i fully understand :) |
| 15:41.05 | ``Erik | people still use crt's? O.O |
| 15:50.10 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I just had to replace a LCD with CRT - if I ran compilation there were horizontal stripes randomly jumping on the screen |
| 15:50.18 | Z80-Boy | I tried a different LCD and the same problem |
| 15:50.41 | Z80-Boy | Then I tried CRT and it's OK. Plus I have more uniform white, better black and brighter colours. |
| 15:53.33 | PrezKennedy | and 3x less desk space! |
| 15:55.22 | Z80-Boy | The video is unbeliavebly smooth on CRT!P |
| 15:55.55 | Z80-Boy | PrezKennedy: I rather sacrifice some desk space than having to watch stripes |
| 15:57.03 | PrezKennedy | only when you compile right? |
| 16:01.01 | ``Erik | crt's are analog only, lcd's can take digital... if you were using a full digital path, mebbe your videocards digital part is messed up, or mebbe the analog just 'blurs' over the lines and ya don't see the bad signal.... crt running close to full resolution will usually be 60fps, where an lcd will be around 40fps, but the lcd won't have any kind of 'tearing' since the pixel stays 'lit' the same until next update, where a crt has a decay e |
| 16:02.09 | ``Erik | oops, too much geek, skeered him off |
| 16:03.06 | ``Erik | if it was just during compilation, may've been crosstalk effecting things... I know one of my old computers had problems with that, heavy load and I'd start hearing it on the speakers, and for some reason the mouse set it off, too O.o |
| 16:03.48 | PrezKennedy | i hear that once in awhile with a computer thats quite new... |
| 16:04.18 | Z80-Boy | Well it was analog |
| 16:04.30 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 16:04.30 | Z80-Boy | and it was because the card apparently gets a clock jitter. |
| 16:04.34 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:04.41 | Z80-Boy | But clock jitter should display as shifting of a line. |
| 16:04.57 | Z80-Boy | Shifting an object doesn't change it's brightness. But in this case the brightness flickered tremendously. |
| 16:05.06 | ``Erik | didja try moving the video cable around while compiling to see if it altered the behavior? |
| 16:05.08 | Z80-Boy | That means the LCD is showing something else than is in the signal, period. |
| 16:05.24 | prasad_ | gameboy? |
| 16:05.26 | Z80-Boy | No but I tried moving the LCD around, away from my desk. |
| 16:05.30 | Z80-Boy | That helped. |
| 16:05.44 | PrezKennedy | do you compile often? |
| 16:05.56 | Z80-Boy | That's completely irrelevant. |
| 16:05.57 | ``Erik | if two seperate lcd's showed the same thing, then the lcd is properly showing the signal, the signal is improper... crt's tend to be a lot more robust to 'funny data' in analog mode O.o |
| 16:06.06 | prasad_ | gameboy has a z80 :o |
| 16:06.22 | Z80-Boy | No the LCD is showing something else |
| 16:06.29 | Z80-Boy | The problem is the sampling is done improperly. |
| 16:06.45 | Z80-Boy | They leave out the sampling filter to satisfy the Nyquist criterion |
| 16:06.58 | Z80-Boy | CRT doesn't do any sampling. |
| 16:07.10 | Z80-Boy | So you either 1) do no sampling, or 2) do sampling properly |
| 16:07.17 | ``Erik | crt isn't digital, it's a "natural" sampling mechanism |
| 16:07.39 | Z80-Boy | I don't care how they implement it inside the monitor, it just has to show what's on the line |
| 16:07.56 | ``Erik | ... a crt DOESN'T show exactly what's ont he line, that's my point, dude |
| 16:08.02 | Z80-Boy | For me it's a blackbox. Shows the right picture? stays on the desk. Doesn't? Flies away. |
| 16:08.25 | ``Erik | smells to me like you're fixing the symptom, not the problem *shrug* |
| 16:08.26 | Z80-Boy | It doesn't but it's better than with LCD |
| 16:08.37 | Z80-Boy | And also I tried playing a music video... much smoother movements! |
| 16:08.45 | ``Erik | 'sup, prasad? |
| 16:08.50 | Z80-Boy | Like fast dance and rapid camera movements... |
| 16:08.53 | Z80-Boy | It was like in real! |
| 16:09.08 | Z80-Boy | With LCD I am feeling like losing track of the movement. |
| 16:09.24 | Z80-Boy | Sorry, but if I am more happy with CRT then it's better for me. |
| 16:09.29 | PrezKennedy | you need a faster LCD screen! |
| 16:10.15 | Z80-Boy | I suspect LCD's have an internal refresh rate that runs asynchronously with the VGA refresh rate and causes temporal aliasing |
| 16:10.40 | Z80-Boy | And the black on LCD is horrible and on white I see Haidinger's brushes all around |
| 16:10.41 | prasad_ | even with vsync on? |
| 16:11.05 | Z80-Boy | The vsync was on all the time |
| 16:11.13 | Z80-Boy | Without vsync the picture loses vertical sync |
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| 16:15.43 | ``Erik | hum, older/cheaper lcd's have a 25ms response rate, which is sorta kinda the same as a refresh rate of 40hz, opposed to a 'normal' crt (at max res) of around 60hz... the lcd's I'm sitting at have 14ms response, which maths out to 71hz O.o prezkennedy may have a point there :D |
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| 18:48.34 | ``Erik | howdy ho |
| 19:10.20 | ``Erik | heheh e http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1788161 |
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| 19:53.17 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: both at home, but lcd predominantly |
| 19:58.28 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is there a way to get rid of the warning when I put a region into another region? |
| 19:58.40 | Z80-Boy | I thought the "inherit" flag would logically turn it off but it doesn't |
| 20:19.42 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: typo, brrrrcad |
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| 20:27.58 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: do you know how to get rid of the warning when I put a region into another region? |
| 20:36.27 | ``Erik | um, no? :) |
| 20:39.27 | Z80-Boy | It's very handy because I have a complex thing where each part is coloured a different way and now I want to make a variant which is all grey |
| 20:39.27 | *** join/#brlcad nedko (n=nedko@89.253.148.98) | |
| 20:39.37 | Z80-Boy | So I just put it into a region and override it all |
| 20:39.48 | ``Erik | it's just a warning, though, right? it still works? |
| 20:40.10 | Z80-Boy | I don't want all the matrices to be duplicated because that's a bad practice |
| 20:40.15 | Z80-Boy | Yes it works but warns |
| 20:40.40 | Z80-Boy | Warning: you are using an efficient method. |
| 20:40.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:41.25 | ``Erik | um, one of the bigger reasons BRL-CAD gets funded is to support another piece of software that pukes all over itself when any primitive is seen twice in the tree... |
| 20:42.18 | ``Erik | we say it's their problem, they say it's ours, the warning keeps the poor users from stepping on landmines in a battle between developer groups |
| 20:43.02 | ``Erik | (if I'm guessing correctly... brlcad might be able to confirm or correct me on that) |
| 20:44.31 | Z80-Boy | What ?!? |
| 20:45.09 | Z80-Boy | If I have a grille with 100x100 holes, I have to crate 10,000 primitives to satisfy this idea of nonrepeating primitives? |
| 20:45.24 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 20:45.32 | ``Erik | why do ya think I've been working on 'clone' lately? |
| 20:45.41 | ``Erik | (I think it's idiotic, too...) |
| 20:46.42 | Z80-Boy | And if I realize the filtering action of the grille needs to be adjusted and change the holes from 4mm to 5mm, I have to edit ebery single primitive? |
| 20:46.48 | Z80-Boy | OMG WTF |
| 20:47.06 | ``Erik | um, everything in the database can be expressed without confusion using the path, right? well, these guys only look at the last entry on the path list and map it to their own names... so they require a 1-1 mapping of geometric primitives to a physically unique 'thing' |
| 20:47.35 | ``Erik | which is why ya see request tickets to warn or remove "instancing" in the sf bugs and feature requests... |
| 20:48.13 | ``Erik | and it's been that way for 20 years now :( |
| 20:50.57 | Z80-Boy | I don't know if "everything in the database can be expressed without confusion using the path, right? |
| 20:51.01 | Z80-Boy | " |
| 20:51.55 | Z80-Boy | if you have 2 M5x20 hex head bolts, do you have two physically unique things or two instances of one physical thing? |
| 20:51.58 | ``Erik | /part1/hole1/generichole /part1/hole2/generichole ... ? |
| 20:52.25 | Z80-Boy | yes that's how I do it |
| 20:52.40 | ``Erik | that would be instancing... 'generichole' only exists once, but you know where it goes due to the full path being a unique identifier... |
| 20:53.14 | ``Erik | opposed to just taking the last part, how do you distinguish between "generichole" and "generichole", even though you know they are in different physical locations? |
| 20:53.57 | ``Erik | we say "use the full path", they say "don't allow instancing" |
| 20:53.58 | ``Erik | :) |
| 20:54.24 | Z80-Boy | It's TIA/EIA - Training In Absurdity, Exercise In Absurdity |
| 20:54.51 | dtidrow_work | good grief |
| 20:54.51 | ``Erik | and I THINK that might be the reason for that specific warning being in there, because now you have /part1/hole1/generichole vs /greyview/part1/hole1/generichole... or 'generichole' vs 'generichole' for this certain consumer |
| 20:55.07 | ``Erik | I *THINK* |
| 20:55.23 | dtidrow_work | somebody needs to go over there and start swinging the cluebat around |
| 20:55.36 | ``Erik | again, if brlcad were to drag his arse in and either correct me or add something... :D |
| 20:56.26 | dtidrow_work | still |
| 20:56.32 | Z80-Boy | now the machines are fast but BRL-CAD is still slow |
| 20:56.35 | dtidrow_work | unnecessary bloat |
| 20:56.44 | Z80-Boy | my most complex model takes 1 minute to redraw in mged |
| 20:56.58 | Z80-Boy | open menu, close menu, wait a minute until the black rectangle left by the menu redraws... |
| 20:57.04 | Z80-Boy | change the zoom, wait a minute. |
| 20:57.08 | Z80-Boy | Shift the zoom, wait a minute. |
| 20:57.15 | ``Erik | hey, man, I don't like the practice eather, I'm just trying to guess at the reason for that warning being in there :) |
| 20:57.41 | ``Erik | heh, we have people routinely blowing the 2g limit on 32b builds here |
| 20:57.57 | dtidrow_work | how many parts are in that model, Z80-Boy? |
| 20:58.24 | Z80-Boy | I don't know how do I figure out? |
| 20:58.32 | ``Erik | don: fear his p233 ;) |
| 20:58.39 | Z80-Boy | I have p1500 |
| 20:58.49 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: lol |
| 20:59.51 | ``Erik | being a command line dork, I'd sdo something like "mged -c file.g ls -l | grep -v 'comb\|region' | wc -l |
| 21:00.44 | ``Erik | errr, "mged -c /usr/brlcad/share/db/moss.g ls -l 2>&1 | grep -v 'comb\|region' | wc -l" |
| 21:00.47 | ``Erik | (on fbsd, using bash) |
| 21:03.06 | Z80-Boy | 0 |
| 21:03.11 | Z80-Boy | should I count >&2 instead? |
| 21:04.08 | Z80-Boy | 444 |
| 21:06.17 | dtidrow_work | brlcad: morning ;-) |
| 21:06.37 | ``Erik | I d'no, I'm not a csh user... bash, ksh, zsh, I'm there... but not csh |
| 21:07.40 | brlcad | inherit is only for visual property inheritance (i.e. shader properties) |
| 21:07.54 | brlcad | howdy dtidrow_work |
| 21:08.23 | brlcad | not quite the reason -- there is a code that craps on itself if there's particular combinations of regions in regions, but in this case that's not even the issue |
| 21:08.59 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: from what I'm hearing, it sounds like a misunderstanding of what it means to have that region bit set/unset |
| 21:09.21 | brlcad | it has nothing to do with the color properties, it has to do with space occupancy |
| 21:10.53 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: so how do I do that properly? |
| 21:10.53 | brlcad | you've basically said "this thing is wood, and now this _same_ thing used in a higher-level context is now not wood" |
| 21:10.56 | brlcad | so it (very correctly) warns you that you've just changed the material *type* (which again has nothing to do with color or shader properties, has to do with physical occupancy) |
| 21:11.36 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: the easy thing is unset the region bit on the higher level combination |
| 21:11.46 | brlcad | there should only be one region on any path down the hierarchy |
| 21:12.24 | brlcad | think of it as the "region" simply being when it goes from shape (blueprint/pattern) to solid (occupies space, has mass) |
| 21:12.50 | brlcad | you're just wanting a color override, that has nothing to do with regions |
| 21:13.06 | brlcad | you can color override any combination node |
| 21:14.33 | brlcad | dtidrow_work: there is a cluebat needed on that other code's behavior, but entirely unrelated to this issue ;) |
| 21:14.47 | ``Erik | <-- toldja he was guessing :D |
| 21:14.53 | brlcad | they do have an instancing name conflict problem, but they deal with it in their own "special" way |
| 21:15.17 | ``Erik | and I have a tendancy to go heavy on the code side, not so much the geometry/modeling side *shrug* O:-) |
| 21:15.28 | dtidrow_work | heh |
| 21:17.22 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: yes but if I unset the bit, the things starts being colourful again. |
| 21:17.58 | Z80-Boy | It's this one: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax_0.png |
| 21:17.59 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 21:18.09 | Z80-Boy | Normally the thing is one welded piece and all grey from zinc plating |
| 21:18.35 | Z80-Boy | But I had to paint each piece individually to be able to refer to it in the assembly manual. |
| 21:19.12 | Z80-Boy | So each colour is an individual region and the resulting thing is a complicated combination of these regions, because they must not overlap so where they join one has to "give way" |
| 21:19.18 | ``Erik | what about making every piece a combination... then having two things that refer to it, a color manual copy with many regions, and a seperate display copy with all zinc |
| 21:19.24 | Z80-Boy | Now I want to paint the whole thing gray. Now making it over whole again. |
| 21:19.33 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487721C.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 21:19.50 | ``Erik | then the colorful regions all get grouped in their own assembly or something to give an easy handle... :) |
| 21:20.31 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: Once I group them I cannot paint them individually later |
| 21:20.40 | Z80-Boy | So they have to be first painted then grouped |
| 21:20.52 | ``Erik | yes |
| 21:21.09 | Z80-Boy | I could just merge all the *.r things into one huge and remove the "give ways" and retain the matrices |
| 21:21.15 | ``Erik | /display/comb1/parts... /manual/region1/comb1/parts... |
| 21:21.31 | Z80-Boy | But that's bad practice. It can lead to shape inconsistency between the two copies |
| 21:21.35 | ``Erik | no |
| 21:21.39 | ``Erik | because comb1 is comb1 |
| 21:21.57 | ``Erik | two seperate regions point to the same combination underneath (yes, instancing, pheer) |
| 21:22.10 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com) | |
| 21:22.16 | Z80-Boy | I don't want that |
| 21:22.22 | Z80-Boy | I just want to overpaint a region grey |
| 21:22.33 | Z80-Boy | Sorry, a combo of regions |
| 21:22.51 | ``Erik | then suck it up and take the warning :) |
| 21:23.32 | Z80-Boy | what do you mean with "display" and "manual" |
| 21:23.55 | ``Erik | 'display' would be a region containing all your 'part' combinations. |
| 21:24.15 | ``Erik | 'manual' would be a combination, containing a set of regions (one for each part), and each region contains one 'part' combination |
| 21:24.37 | Z80-Boy | yes |
| 21:24.50 | ``Erik | so if you change a bolt size, BOTH regions see it, and you don't violate the 'one region per path' restriction |
| 21:25.53 | Z80-Boy | Now for example the "blue" region constains some elements with matrices |
| 21:26.17 | Z80-Boy | so I have to copy the region into a combo, unset the region flags and insert the combo into a region right? |
| 21:26.39 | Z80-Boy | I can not only change sizes of things but also their mutual positions. |
| 21:28.18 | Z80-Boy | What all do I have to do to properly deregionize? |
| 21:31.27 | ``Erik | um, I'd try to create a new region with the material and only one 'child', the old region... then figure out how to turn off the region bit on the old region, so it's just a plain combination |
| 21:31.51 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't know jack about USING the software, just a tiny bit about what's under the hood |
| 21:32.12 | ``Erik | I'm a mechanic, not a pilot |
| 21:32.44 | Z80-Boy | What happens if I only turn off the region bit but don't remove LOS, material ID shader colour etc.? |
| 21:32.51 | Z80-Boy | does BRL-CAD get into an inconsistent state or not? |
| 21:32.58 | ``Erik | (kinda more the machinist building the tools and parts for the mechanics... but that's going awful far on an analogy tangent) |
| 21:35.53 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: again, color has nothing to do with it being a region or not |
| 21:36.11 | brlcad | you just happened to make regions via the commands you used (presumably the r command) |
| 21:36.26 | brlcad | you can "unset" them as regions using the combination editor on the edit menu |
| 21:36.35 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:36.50 | brlcad | being a region really is just a 0/1 bit flip on a combination |
| 21:37.05 | brlcad | and relating to physical space _occupancy_ |
| 21:37.40 | ``Erik | on disk... right? regions and combinations have a few different 'in-memory' data bits, I think? |
| 21:38.00 | brlcad | so you have whatever grey hierarchy of objects, you can create another hierarchy separate from that with all of the colors set, or set the colors at two levels with an override |
| 21:39.36 | brlcad | ``Erik: not really for what he's doing, but yes -- there are a few other relevant parameters like LOS thickness, aircodes, the actual region ident code, etc |
| 21:39.59 | brlcad | basically things that affect spatial occupancy or evaluation of that occupancy |
| 21:40.05 | ``Erik | is it possible to demote a region to a combination? |
| 21:40.13 | ``Erik | without killing and rebuilding it? |
| 21:40.16 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:40.24 | brlcad | just open the combination editor and uncheck the region box |
| 21:40.37 | ``Erik | there ya go, karel :D |
| 21:40.56 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: just did it :) |
| 21:40.59 | brlcad | it really is just an on/off flag on combinations from mge's perspective |
| 21:41.00 | ``Erik | (is there a command backed way to do it? for a geek who doesn't wanna keep grabbing the mouse? or someone doing it in a script?) |
| 21:41.14 | brlcad | hrm, there is.. |
| 21:41.18 | Z80-Boy | I did it with red |
| 21:41.28 | brlcad | something like attr put region 0 |
| 21:41.29 | Z80-Boy | I just had to turn off the plastic and the colour otherwise it complained warning |
| 21:41.40 | brlcad | forget the exact |
| 21:41.45 | brlcad | there's a half-dozen ways |
| 21:42.09 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: it complained probably because color override wasn't set |
| 21:42.24 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: what is color override good for? |
| 21:42.47 | Z80-Boy | can you have a combo with assigned color that overrides color of underlying regions? |
| 21:42.48 | brlcad | says whether the top-level color overrides lower-level colors |
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| 21:44.46 | Z80-Boy | Hmm when you do B before the previous B finishes, it often hangs or segfaults. |
| 21:44.57 | Z80-Boy | Advanced treatment of cricial sections, I would guess. |
| 21:45.24 | brlcad | really? huh |
| 21:45.35 | brlcad | i've not seen that |
| 21:45.38 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: I could save al lthe work you said |
| 21:45.57 | Z80-Boy | I just got it. All I need to do is put the colourful thing into a combo tick up inherit set colour and plastic |
| 21:46.01 | Z80-Boy | and it doesn't complain! |
| 21:46.05 | CIA-28 | ow |
| 21:46.09 | Z80-Boy | If it's gonna segfault is a different question ;-) |
| 21:46.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: is that a correct method? |
| 21:46.53 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:47.00 | Z80-Boy | Why didn't you tell? |
| 21:47.01 | brlcad | (thought that's what I said) :) |
| 21:47.23 | brlcad | said create a separate hierarchy, set colors and inherit |
| 21:47.30 | ``Erik | ok, yeah, that sounds a bit easier than doing a per-combination hoist |
| 21:47.46 | Z80-Boy | what's a separate hierarchy and a hoist? |
| 21:48.05 | Z80-Boy | now I understand what the inherit is for |
| 21:48.12 | brlcad | great :) |
| 21:48.14 | Z80-Boy | it should be called "overpain" or something like that |
| 21:48.17 | Z80-Boy | overpaint |
| 21:49.01 | brlcad | it says during mater command "Lower nodes inherit this node's material settings" or something pretty similar |
| 21:49.24 | brlcad | likewise the help option on the comb editor |
| 21:49.27 | Z80-Boy | does it also inherit the material weight? |
| 21:49.41 | Z80-Boy | density I mean |
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| 21:51.21 | brlcad | good question.. I don't believe so |
| 21:51.32 | Z80-Boy | so it's just a cosmetic thing |
| 21:51.36 | Z80-Boy | and refraction index? |
| 21:51.45 | brlcad | yeah, afairemember, it's the shader |
| 21:51.48 | brlcad | and color |
| 21:52.31 | brlcad | refraction index is a shader parameter for phong, so yeah |
| 21:53.30 | Z80-Boy | OK thanks now it's all easy |
| 21:53.37 | brlcad | lets you quickly do things like create a new top-level combination called "glasstank" and turn a whole tank into glass (if you wanted such an effect), and likewise up and down a hierarchy |
| 21:53.51 | Z80-Boy | exactly! That's almost what I want! |
| 21:54.51 | prasad_ | mmm glass |
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| 21:58.15 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos__ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 22:06.05 | nedko | brlcad: can you please add lash project (http://cia.vc/stats/project/LASH) to CIA-MIA,#lac |
| 22:06.54 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (geometree/Makefile.am swidgets/scripts/Makefile.am): missed a couple dirs, include pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex in the dist |
| 22:07.08 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Windows/Makefile.am: missed command.png, add to dist |
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| 22:08.01 | brlcad | nedko: done |
| 22:08.14 | nedko | brlcad: thanks! |
| 22:09.11 | brlcad | np |
| 22:16.40 | ``Erik | heh, nifty |
| 22:17.50 | ``Erik | such a brlcad move... http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/alreadylicked128392284542500000.jpg |
| 22:18.07 | brlcad | hehe |
| 22:30.51 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r341 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: ws |
| 22:31.29 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r342 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): methods to let the bot respond to methods privately instead of public if it's a channel message. |
| 22:37.45 | *** part/#brlcad nedko (n=nedko@89.253.148.98) | |
| 22:47.45 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r343 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): |
| 22:47.45 | CIA-28 | libirc: make stuff that is supposed to be private to the bot class, be well private. |
| 22:47.45 | CIA-28 | libirc: move the isForMe method to protected, and make it virtual in case anyone wants to override it's logic with more complex logic. |
| 23:02.36 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.179.226) | |
| 23:03.39 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r344 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): data utils for the config class |
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| 23:16.04 | yukonbob | !ah right -- Heroes night tonight... |
| 23:17.29 | brlcad | :) |
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| 00:26.44 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r345 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): read and write full config files as needed by the calling code |
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| 03:56.35 | lachyg | Hi. Does anyone know why a translation through matrix manipulation might cause the translation to have a magnitude five times the values entered? |
| 03:59.40 | *** join/#brlcad poolio (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu) | |
| 04:07.25 | lachyg | mged> l plate.leds.c |
| 04:07.36 | lachyg | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:07.59 | lachyg | mged> arced plate.leds.c/led.r.c matrix rmul xlate 0 0 -500 |
| 04:08.07 | lachyg | mged> l plate.leds.c |
| 04:08.17 | lachyg | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:48.34 | brlcad | magnitude 5x? |
| 04:48.57 | brlcad | that's e-13 .. which is pretty much "zero" |
| 04:49.35 | brlcad | just seeing some floating point fuzz 13 decimal places out |
| 05:00.35 | lachyg | Yeah. |
| 05:00.41 | lachyg | Look at the first component, though. |
| 05:40.03 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r347 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): redo the message system so that messages can send back themselves, and have a reply method |
| 05:55.32 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.c: anything using the bu offset macros needs to include stddef.h for the standard offset macros. other minor mods for bu_exit. |
| 05:59.21 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: add reshoot to the build/install including its manual page documentation. |
| 05:59.33 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: ignore reshoot product |
| 06:01.05 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: the version files are no longer generated, remove from ignore list |
| 06:01.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: version file too |
| 06:03.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: compile hurt, just don't install it. |
| 06:04.04 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: ignore hurt |
| 06:06.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: install the terra.dsp file since it's needed by terra.g; adds missing file to dist |
| 06:07.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: install the brep.txt file for kicks and wiggles so it's not missing from source dist |
| 06:13.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/Makefile.am: include PKGBUILD.static in the dist if it's in the checkout |
| 06:14.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: include doxygen_structure in the dist |
| 06:19.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (win32-msvc7/Makefile.am win32-msvc8/Makefile.am): missing files from dist |
| 06:22.36 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: add script files mising from dist |
| 06:25.31 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: archer.bat missing from source dist, add it |
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| 11:15.17 | lachyg | Hi. Is there a way to draw a combination with a translation without changing its location in the database? |
| 11:15.36 | lachyg | Something along the lines of "draw table.c 0 0 -100" |
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| 15:51.25 | brlcad | lachyg: if you're in edit mode, you can do the tra and then reject the change |
| 15:52.02 | brlcad | the database is only changed after you do apply or accept |
| 15:53.16 | lachyg | Ok, thanks. |
| 15:54.25 | brlcad | you can also put the object into another container that has a matrix applied if it's something you frequently want to do |
| 15:54.40 | brlcad | comb tablemoved.c u table.c |
| 15:54.52 | brlcad | oed / tablemoved.c/table.c/path/to/prim |
| 15:55.00 | brlcad | tra 0 0 -100 |
| 15:55.02 | brlcad | accept |
| 15:55.39 | lachyg | Hmm, that's probably not a bad idea. |
| 15:55.42 | lachyg | Thanks for that. |
| 16:33.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/Makefile.am: add rleccube to the build |
| 16:33.30 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/Makefile.am: readd the disabled converters so they make the dist |
| 16:34.02 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/man/Makefile.am: add pgmtorle manpage |
| 18:26.08 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (Makefile.am base/Makefile.am png/Makefile.am): add files missing from source dist |
| 18:29.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/libtcl_nil.a: oop, don't put the archive in cvs.. |
| 18:34.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (openNURBS/Makefile.am tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): more files missing from the source dist |
| 18:36.23 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/.cvsignore tk/unix/.cvsignore): more generated files to ignore |
| 18:37.29 | prasad_ | http://books.google.com/books?q=brlcad&as_brr=1 |
| 18:37.31 | prasad_ | nifty |
| 18:51.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (walk_example.c example_geom.c): rename example_geom.c to walk_example.c to be consistent name-wise with the other *_example program samples. |
| 19:16.19 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/walk_example.c: restructure cleanup for bu_exit, move struct comments to where they're actually used, cleanup usage, remove progname. |
| 19:16.37 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: add walk_example to the build, but don't install it. |
| 19:19.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: need terra.dsp in the dist |
| 19:20.37 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs): add more files missing from the source dist |
| 19:24.07 | *** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 19:25.20 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: ignore walk_example |
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| 20:26.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/plane.h: obsolete private header -- the contents were added to bn.h a long time ago |
| 20:28.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 9 dirs): and now what I think is the final batch of files missing from the source distribution, woot! |
| 20:44.12 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: blt.mak not blt.make |
| 20:45.39 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include gforge.sh in dist |
| 20:45.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Makefile.am: include eagleCAD.bmp in source dist |
| 20:47.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: |
| 20:47.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: enhance the dist hook so that it checks whether files listed in CVS are actually |
| 20:47.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: included in the source dist that we end up with. makes it a heck of a lot |
| 20:47.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: easier to ensure that we have all the files that we're supposed to come time to |
| 20:47.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: make a source release. |
| 20:58.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: gah, one more. add brep-test.cpp to dist |
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| 22:58.43 | brlcad | like tv programming? |
| 22:59.43 | bpoole | ah Maryland, I'm on the way there now :) |
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| 00:02.14 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:02.31 | ``Erik | so if one were, too, come up with a program for a school recital... :D |
| 01:17.33 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 02:04.53 | Twingy | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/inspirational/napkin-notebook-an-idea-so-good-it-must-have-been-written-on-a-napkin-325182.php |
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| 04:51.22 | brlcad | heh |
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| 07:49.04 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: itemize the critical items remaining for this release .. bu_bombing, rt parallel crash bug, incrtcl search woes, and testing parallel crash reporting. |
| 07:51.15 | Defcon | woes = troubles ??? |
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| 11:09.12 | louipc | Defcon: correct |
| 11:12.15 | Defcon | ok |
| 11:46.24 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I found out how to easily generate a city full of skyscrapers for 3D model background |
| 11:46.32 | Z80-Boy | just use the function n^(n+13) ;-) |
| 11:46.44 | Z80-Boy | or change 13 to a different constant it will generate a different style skyscrapers |
| 11:47.25 | Z80-Boy | ^ means XOR |
| 11:53.54 | Defcon | and n = ?? |
| 11:57.18 | Z80-Boy | integer |
| 12:03.21 | Defcon | yeah :) |
| 12:03.44 | Defcon | i know you cant add 13 to a string |
| 13:00.49 | Defcon | Camdoggle: let me be apart of the development team |
| 13:00.49 | Defcon | Ben174: key word being 'apart' |
| 13:00.51 | Defcon | :) |
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| 13:51.19 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): if we're building against system tcl/tk, then there's no unix dir to traverse into if we're doing an out-of-src build. this fixes distcheck on said platform situations too |
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| 15:22.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (7 files in 2 dirs): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 15:29.33 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/png_info.c: change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling. Include stdlib for EXIT_FAILURE. |
| 15:30.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/ (bw-png.c dsp_add.c png-bw.c png-pix.c remapid.c): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 15:30.35 | prasad1 | ``Erik: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/28170.html |
| 15:32.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/iges.c: char*label isn't munged, so make it const |
| 15:33.41 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:34.12 | Defcon | lol |
| 15:35.15 | prasad1 | shatner one wasn't as funny |
| 15:45.57 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-euclid1.c: change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 15:52.08 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling. Include stdlib for EXIT_FAILURE. |
| 15:53.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (animedit.c clone.c cmd.c edsol.c solids_on_ray.c): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 15:57.23 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 16:03.05 | brlcad | :) |
| 16:03.44 | brlcad | so you got that you leave the bu_bomb's where the sky is falling and/or they're situations where you might actually want a stack trace at that point |
| 16:04.20 | brlcad | pretty much none/most of the "non-library" code |
| 16:04.51 | brlcad | I cleared out about 1000 instances already, there are about 500 left iirc |
| 16:04.54 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 16:05.02 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/spectrum.c: stdlib.h needed for EXIT_FAILURE |
| 16:05.21 | ``Erik | I'm doing a grep to look for lame messages like "this argument is bad" and sed'ing those |
| 16:05.28 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:05.41 | ``Erik | bomb() indicates some kinda failure? :D |
| 16:07.07 | ``Erik | bu_bomb(""); is annoying cuz I can't just say whether or not it's legit from a grep :/ |
| 16:07.41 | ``Erik | g_qa and hurt are ugly that way |
| 16:08.06 | ``Erik | once I get the bu_bombs out of the way, I'll go back and fix those up so they use bu-exit's varargs |
| 16:10.00 | brlcad | yeah, that was part of the "split" for bu_exit .. |
| 16:10.02 | brlcad | bu_bomb was/is being used in two distinct ways |
| 16:10.36 | brlcad | this breaks out that "other" way that sprung up over the years and returned it to its original purpose (halting on critical failures) |
| 16:10.48 | ``Erik | the bu_log();bu_bomb(); is what I'm on to next... :) |
| 16:10.51 | ``Erik | are you in the office? |
| 16:10.55 | brlcad | yeah |
| 16:11.03 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 16:11.08 | ``Erik | dave g was asking around for lunch earlier |
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| 16:18.06 | ``Erik | gettext() translations would be a bitch heh |
| 16:19.28 | poolio | ``Erik: The sky is falling when I call bu_bomb(). |
| 16:19.38 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (15 files): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling |
| 16:20.02 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:20.07 | ``Erik | nut uh |
| 16:20.19 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: note bu_exit() in addition to bu_bomb() |
| 16:20.41 | ``Erik | malloc() and fprintf() still work when you call it, so bu_exit() is better |
| 16:25.18 | brlcad | and it has varargs so those lil bu_bomb buffers being sprintfed into before bu_bomb can go away |
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| 18:10.42 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/hurt.c: print using bu_exit instead of bu_log |
| 18:17.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: print using bu_exit instead of bu_log |
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| 18:18.40 | yukonbob | Hi dee ho, funseekers |
| 18:19.20 | ``Erik | whaddup, b? |
| 18:20.26 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: print using bu_exit instead of bu_log |
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| 18:40.17 | yukonbob | oh -- saw a nice sunrise, but now its above the cloud cover -- another grey day in Whitehorse |
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| 18:52.34 | ``Erik | ow, my poor eyes |
| 18:56.21 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/ (73 files): exit->bu_exit where applicable |
| 19:06.42 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (28 files in 4 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable |
| 19:10.08 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (32 files): exit->bu_exit where applicable |
| 19:28.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (45 files in 13 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable |
| 19:49.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (25 files in 7 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable |
| 19:52.23 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/external/ (3 files in 2 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable |
| 20:43.03 | louipc | yukonbob: what time is sunrise there? |
| 20:49.12 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:49.24 | ``Erik | <-- monkey that got a hold of sed O.o |
| 20:49.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (188 files in 27 dirs): pass bu_exit a NULL instead of an empty string |
| 20:50.18 | brlcad | o.O |
| 20:50.43 | ``Erik | hrm? |
| 20:51.31 | brlcad | just fearful of seddage wrt bomb/exit stuff |
| 20:51.40 | ``Erik | heh |
| 20:51.46 | ``Erik | I've spent the last few hours in cvs diff's. |
| 20:52.35 | ``Erik | sed anything programming is skeery, I've been reasonably careful :) |
| 20:53.11 | yukonbob | louipc: sun low (but up) just before I posted -- officially listed as 9:18, down 4:14 -- seems to be losing ~2.5minutes on rise and 2minutes on set per day -- so ~4.5minutes light/day -- though where I'm at, there's mountains that block the sun before it's officially "set". |
| 20:54.12 | yukonbob | sed/verify w/ ediff in emacs... (or equiv in vim?) |
| 20:54.34 | ``Erik | wait, uh... you saw the sunrise? you actually stepped away from the 'puter and out of your igloo? |
| 20:55.10 | yukonbob | heh - I've got a south facing window that lets me see the sun skim the horizon from e->w. |
| 20:57.51 | yukonbob | if /me gets his auto fixed by ~soltice, maybe take a trip toward arctic circle to get 24h darkess... |
| 20:58.30 | yukonbob | ^-- this just occured to me -- lots of people go to the arctic circle for summer solstice, but I doubt many for winter... |
| 20:58.48 | louipc | ah that's not bad I was thinking it rises at 1200 and sets at 1300 |
| 20:58.51 | louipc | hhah |
| 20:59.54 | dtidrow | 24hr aurora watching :-) |
| 21:00.14 | yukonbob | louipc: no -- it gets as bad as ~10am->3:30pm in Whitehorse |
| 21:00.41 | yukonbob | dtidrow: could be -- last winter hardly saw any lights, though. |
| 21:01.47 | yukonbob | have seen whole sky lit up -- better than a Pink Floyd laser show ;) -- esp. fun if you're leaving a bar after a good night... |
| 21:02.02 | dtidrow | heh |
| 21:02.32 | dtidrow | bet you had some real fireworks a few years ago |
| 21:02.47 | yukonbob | ?why |
| 21:03.01 | dtidrow | '02 or so, IIRC, there were some monster solar flares |
| 21:03.08 | yukonbob | ah -- |
| 21:03.54 | dtidrow | we're about at the sunspot minimum now, so the sun's pretty quiet |
| 21:04.11 | yukonbob | that could explain last year's suckiness |
| 21:05.39 | dtidrow | http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/ |
| 21:06.10 | dtidrow | http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/ - back around '02 there were lots of spots visible |
| 21:07.49 | ``Erik | hum... staring at the sun to see spots... O.o |
| 21:07.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:08.32 | yukonbob | there's a little black spot on the sun today... |
| 21:08.55 | dtidrow | lol |
| 21:11.26 | louipc | smaller than the earth little? |
| 21:13.01 | yukonbob | louipc: dunno, but it's the same old thing as yesterday |
| 21:13.43 | dtidrow | http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/spotcollage.jpg - this was the spot that fired off a huge flare |
| 21:22.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c: quell type warning on 64b build |
| 21:46.56 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: pad with 0's to keep the compiler from complaining about casting 32b int->ptr on 64b systems (and just hope we don't cross 4g) |
| 21:49.13 | ``Erik | hum, tcl/tk 8.5b3 is out |
| 21:52.03 | ``Erik | mainly related to interfacing tcl |
| 21:52.56 | yukonbob | ?really |
| 21:53.06 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 21:53.20 | ``Erik | int a; TclSomething((void *)a); |
| 21:53.22 | ``Erik | that kinda thang |
| 21:53.58 | ``Erik | I'm marking them with (void *)(size_t)a right now :/ |
| 21:54.26 | ``Erik | but that int should be size_t to start with, I'd imagine... 'cept they're ALSO used as ints, sometimes... |
| 21:54.26 | yukonbob | hrmm... /me guesses pretty much all langs would be the same... |
| 21:55.48 | ``Erik | nah, most dont' have explicit points and ill fitting types |
| 21:56.07 | ``Erik | ok, like "shiney toy guns", I'm gonna go ride the race cars :D bbl |
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| 00:18.33 | ``Erik | yukon: the issues I'm seeing will technically work with tcl 64b, as long as you don't cross the 4g threshhold... |
| 00:18.36 | ``Erik | I THINK |
| 00:19.00 | ``Erik | I might do something silly in mged like a fistful of big allocs to push all the 'working' stuff up past the 32b barrier to see what happens |
| 00:37.18 | ``Erik | and I'm used to doing silly things... http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=1 |
| 00:37.20 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:39.43 | yukonbob | heh |
| 00:40.08 | yukonbob | well -- you could use tcl to try to break itself from w/i mged... |
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| 06:41.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: bu_exit() won't generate a core dump because of the bu_setjmp exception handler. never gets to the abort. mention gdb. |
| 07:04.46 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c: bu_exit formats the exit statement distinctly, don't confuse it as a complete drop-in replacement for bu_log+exit |
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| 12:24.56 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: this is generated through a simple XOR. Can one put it into a height field and transform into a "city background"? http://ronja.twibright.com/mrakodrapy.png |
| 12:26.17 | Z80-Boy | Or does the height field have problem with "vertical walls"? |
| 12:37.47 | DEFCON_ | was that the n+(2)^n |
| 12:37.52 | DEFCON_ | or sumthing?. |
| 12:39.29 | DEFCON_ | Z80-Boy : http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new1_chimney_1.png |
| 12:39.32 | DEFCON_ | is that yours? |
| 13:18.17 | DEFCON_ | "What describes one complete turn of a rotating object?" |
| 13:18.20 | DEFCON_ | revolution? |
| 13:23.25 | Z80-Boy | DEFCON_: yes that's mine |
| 13:23.43 | Z80-Boy | It's generated through sum=(i+25)^i^(i+7)^(i+6); |
| 13:23.56 | Z80-Boy | Where i goes from 0 to 255 and indicates the column |
| 13:24.03 | Z80-Boy | sum indicates how long black line you draw |
| 13:24.07 | DEFCON_ | ok |
| 13:24.31 | DEFCON_ | weird outcome |
| 13:24.36 | Z80-Boy | Isn't that interesting? Such a simple algorithm generating so sophisticated and nice structure? |
| 13:24.41 | DEFCON_ | i mean it's mirrored |
| 13:24.57 | DEFCON_ | indeed, very interesting |
| 13:25.16 | Z80-Boy | I used bw-png to get it from raw data into png. Very useful these brl-cad tools. |
| 13:25.32 | DEFCON_ | indeed :) |
| 13:25.45 | DEFCON_ | bw-png= black&white? |
| 13:25.47 | Z80-Boy | yes |
| 13:25.51 | Z80-Boy | and pix-png makes RGB |
| 13:26.00 | DEFCON_ | k |
| 13:26.21 | Z80-Boy | a no-bullshit tool you don't have to study the manpage for half a yeat to be able to perform a simple task. |
| 13:26.29 | Z80-Boy | yeat -> year |
| 13:26.38 | DEFCON_ | indeed :) |
| 13:28.52 | DEFCON_ | Dim sum As Integer |
| 13:28.54 | DEFCON_ | lol |
| 13:28.55 | DEFCON_ | dimsum :) |
| 13:28.57 | DEFCON_ | anyway |
| 13:29.08 | DEFCON_ | sum could be a double? |
| 13:29.13 | DEFCON_ | sum could be a *float? |
| 13:32.03 | DEFCON_ | Z80-Boy |
| 13:32.04 | DEFCON_ | =1 -> 1,73183888392163E+79 |
| 13:32.04 | DEFCON_ | i=2 -> 1,30732040222852E+206 |
| 13:32.04 | DEFCON_ | i=3 -> oneindig |
| 13:32.04 | DEFCON_ | i=4 -> oneindig |
| 13:32.12 | DEFCON_ | oneindig mean Infinitive |
| 13:32.21 | DEFCON_ | what am i doing wrong? |
| 13:33.03 | DEFCON_ | are u sure it's this: sum=(i+25)^i^(i+7)^(i+6) |
| 13:33.04 | DEFCON_ | ? |
| 13:33.13 | DEFCON_ | 3 times "to the power of" |
| 13:38.59 | Z80-Boy | DEFCON_: ^ is XOR, not power! |
| 13:43.49 | DEFCON_ | oohhwww |
| 13:43.51 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 13:43.52 | DEFCON_ | ok |
| 13:46.22 | DEFCON_ | i=1 -> 20 |
| 13:46.22 | DEFCON_ | i=2 -> 24 |
| 13:46.22 | DEFCON_ | i=3 -> 28 |
| 13:46.22 | DEFCON_ | i=4 -> 24 |
| 13:46.24 | DEFCON_ | better :) |
| 13:46.34 | DEFCON_ | how on earth did u find that formula |
| 13:46.35 | DEFCON_ | ? |
| 13:55.24 | Z80-Boy | tried out |
| 14:03.52 | DEFCON_ | ohw :) |
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| 14:21.31 | DEFCON_ | Z80-Boy : http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text/ |
| 14:21.34 | DEFCON_ | try it out |
| 14:21.39 | DEFCON_ | brb |
| 14:31.26 | DEFCON_ | if u use: sum = (i + 25) Xor i |
| 14:31.44 | DEFCON_ | then u don't have that white line in each 'building' |
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| 14:33.02 | Z80-Boy | DEFCON_: doesn't do anything |
| 14:33.50 | DEFCON_ | ? |
| 14:33.57 | Z80-Boy | Oh it doesn't work in Links |
| 14:34.07 | DEFCON_ | http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text/ ?? |
| 14:34.11 | DEFCON_ | works here |
| 14:34.13 | Z80-Boy | But why did you make the boundaries settable and not the constants 25, 7, 6? |
| 14:34.17 | Z80-Boy | It works in Firefox |
| 14:34.33 | DEFCON_ | i'm bussy with the constants |
| 14:34.33 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 14:35.20 | DEFCON_ | it also works in ie7 |
| 14:35.26 | DEFCON_ | but i suppose u don't use that :) |
| 14:38.22 | Z80-Boy | DEFCON_: program faster :) |
| 14:42.14 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 14:42.16 | DEFCON_ | try again |
| 14:47.37 | Z80-Boy | Interesting |
| 14:48.24 | Defcon | does it work well? |
| 14:48.27 | Z80-Boy | Yes |
| 14:48.34 | Defcon | ok |
| 14:48.46 | Z80-Boy | Once did an error but I guess you might have been adjusting something |
| 14:49.09 | Defcon | could be |
| 14:49.42 | Defcon | if you loop from 0 to 480, it kinda give a perfect output |
| 14:49.56 | Defcon | small, big, biggest, big, small |
| 14:50.08 | Defcon | using your constants that is |
| 14:52.41 | Defcon | hmm |
| 14:52.47 | Defcon | i should get back to work |
| 14:53.13 | Defcon | but math's is so much more interesting then selecting and updating sql data |
| 14:53.15 | Defcon | :( |
| 15:44.16 | *** join/#brlcad Defcon_ (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) | |
| 15:51.30 | Defcon_ | cya tomorrow all |
| 16:22.14 | *** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 17:00.49 | ``Erik | heh, the grunt does the lifting, the guru corrects the oopses :/ I feel like such a newb. |
| 17:47.35 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 17:49.15 | yukonbob | louipc: sun is coming up for me now... :) |
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| 18:51.13 | IriX64 | mmmm if you change tkUnixRfont to tkUnixFont in /src/other/tk/unix/makefile, bwish compiles and links just fine. |
| 18:51.53 | IriX64 | err if you recompile tk that is :) |
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| 20:55.16 | ``Erik | meh, shoulda gone to missoura |
| 21:11.54 | yukonbob | heh -- for a sec. I though you were jar-jar binks "meessa shoulda gone to missoura" |
| 21:21.46 | ``Erik | AC_PROG_CC searches for various fortran and C compilers |
| 21:21.49 | ``Erik | woops |
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| 22:33.35 | ``Erik | y'know |
| 22:33.52 | ``Erik | I this would be better if the flashbacks were in chinese and subtitled |
| 22:34.11 | ``Erik | the english 'flashback' stuff is stilted and odd |
| 22:34.15 | ``Erik | in a bad way |
| 22:37.07 | ``Erik | quit that, you |
| 22:40.27 | NotAContradictio | sorry |
| 22:40.28 | NotAContradictio | got banned |
| 22:40.40 | NotAContradictio | Well, bz.bzflag.bz did. |
| 22:40.46 | NotAContradictio | and it all got wierd. |
| 22:41.23 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 22:41.31 | ``Erik | weird, you mean.. weird is a weird word :D |
| 22:41.38 | NotAContradictio | lol |
| 22:41.40 | NotAContradictio | yes |
| 22:41.51 | ``Erik | ironical |
| 22:41.53 | NotAContradictio | In #mediawiki - the op says it was something to do with the CIA echo bot, or something. |
| 00:12.06 | ``Erik | "I seek not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions" ... damn brilliant |
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| 06:35.03 | louipc | heck the what? |
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| 14:16.03 | ``Erik | blargh. |
| 14:17.45 | ``Erik | too many people parked infront of the building :( I wanted to just pull in sideways instead of following the lines |
| 14:20.54 | Defcon | :) |
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| 20:37.11 | illethal | Hello |
| 20:49.35 | yukonbob | hello, illethal |
| 20:54.41 | illethal | I just installed BRL-CAD, and I'm trying to make something. |
| 20:54.43 | illethal | But failing. |
| 20:54.56 | illethal | Any beginners information? |
| 20:56.49 | yukonbob | there are documents, yes -- check out... (/me looks) |
| 20:57.19 | illethal | I'm new to CAD but not too new to 3D. |
| 20:59.19 | yukonbob | http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation |
| 20:59.27 | yukonbob | you'll want the MGED quick ref. |
| 21:00.03 | illethal | Thanks. |
| 21:00.18 | illethal | I was playing with MGED and it kept telling me that I had no database selected. |
| 21:01.44 | yukonbob | you need to open or create a database... |
| 21:02.21 | yukonbob | everything is stored in a db -- and all saving happens "in realtime", so changes are written to the db as they are changed... |
| 21:02.40 | illethal | ooh. |
| 21:03.34 | yukonbob | also, grab http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Image:Introduction_to_MGED.pdf |
| 21:03.49 | illethal | Thanks. |
| 21:03.54 | illethal | Muchly appreciated. |
| 21:04.02 | illethal | How long have you been using BRL-CAD? |
| 21:04.15 | yukonbob | np |
| 21:04.52 | yukonbob | my usage... ~6mos maybe... |
| 21:04.52 | yukonbob | +/- |
| 21:05.12 | yukonbob | not new to 3D or CSG -- worked with POVRay over time |
| 21:05.23 | illethal | Damn |
| 21:05.35 | illethal | POVRay was my first 3D prog, I never could figure out how to use it. |
| 21:06.06 | yukonbob | heh -- ya -- not interactive, lots of typing and imagination required. |
| 21:06.30 | illethal | I've seen some pretty awesome stuff done with it. |
| 21:06.39 | illethal | That I couldn't even do with Maya lol. |
| 21:07.58 | yukonbob | that tri-fold lists all the primitives available to you, and the commands you're likely to need/want. the longer doc (intro to mged) is a tutorial that steps you through building some models... a good read. |
| 21:08.59 | illethal | But I have to have a database first, to do anything right? |
| 21:09.06 | illethal | How do I get one? |
| 21:10.44 | yukonbob | you can "opendb foo.g" from w/i mged, or run "mged foo.g" when you're launching mged. |
| 21:10.59 | yukonbob | .g is the typical extension for the databases --- |
| 21:11.20 | illethal | Lol this is like shell scripting |
| 21:11.51 | yukonbob | or you can File->Open |
| 21:11.59 | yukonbob | up to you... |
| 21:12.05 | illethal | Ooh thanks a lot |
| 21:12.07 | illethal | Now I can do stuff. |
| 21:13.20 | illethal | So if I create something from mged how do I see it from archer? |
| 21:13.24 | illethal | Sorry for all these questions lol |
| 21:13.41 | illethal | Ahh. |
| 21:13.51 | illethal | How do I render what I've created? |
| 21:14.05 | yukonbob | iiuc, archer is just another (kind-of next gen) editor like mged is though... |
| 21:14.20 | yukonbob | "e" |
| 21:14.25 | illethal | Yeah it has a commandline |
| 21:14.27 | yukonbob | oh |
| 21:14.40 | yukonbob | no -- e will display wireframe |
| 21:15.08 | yukonbob | File-Raytrace, or learn the 'rt' command-line tool |
| 21:15.18 | yukonbob | *File->Raytrace |
| 21:15.25 | illethal | omg |
| 21:15.31 | illethal | brl-cad is so cool. |
| 21:17.43 | illethal | What kind of geometry is this? |
| 21:17.44 | illethal | Polygons? |
| 21:17.54 | yukonbob | Tcl (programming language) is available to you for scripting/extending your work -- mged is written in tcl/tk, and provides the full power of the Tcl programming lang (http://www.tcl.tk) |
| 21:17.59 | yukonbob | CSG |
| 21:18.03 | yukonbob | constructive solid geometry |
| 21:20.59 | illethal | Cool stuff. |
| 21:22.13 | illethal | Can I see some stuff that you've done with brl cad? |
| 21:23.46 | yukonbob | indeed -- an now I gotta fly :) -- READ THE DOCS!! You'll thank me later -- BRL-CAD may seem archaic in some respects, but I bet you'll see that it was written by obviously intelligent people, and that once you learn a few of it's ways/commands, etc, you'll start being able to exploit it's power... if you're a Tcl programmer, you'll be able to use that, if you're a C programmer, BRL-CAD offers advanced libraries to tap into... |
| 21:24.36 | illethal | Lol I'm an HTML programmer =P |
| 21:24.41 | illethal | Thanks a lot. Take care. |
| 21:24.49 | yukonbob | well, then read the docs and just tinker... |
| 21:24.58 | yukonbob | still a powerful system :) |
| 21:25.08 | illethal | Seems badass. |
| 21:29.59 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlog |
| 21:30.12 | illethal | In my graphics window |
| 21:30.22 | illethal | I pressed some f8 buttons and ctrl+y |
| 21:30.28 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png |
| 21:30.31 | illethal | Now it's spinning on it's y axis, how do I get it to stop? lol |
| 21:30.35 | yukonbob | 0 |
| 21:30.40 | illethal | Thanks |
| 21:31.14 | illethal | That's a pretty cool trick |
| 21:31.19 | illethal | How can I dolly around my model? |
| 21:31.24 | illethal | To look at it, is that possible? |
| 21:31.26 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png |
| 21:31.38 | yukonbob | x, y, z in the display window will rotate it |
| 21:31.53 | yukonbob | and 0 to stop, but you know that now :) |
| 21:32.05 | illethal | Ooh, this is cool. |
| 21:32.06 | yukonbob | X Y Z to move in other direction... |
| 21:32.19 | illethal | I have this yellow menu on the left. |
| 21:32.29 | illethal | But I can't click on 'em. |
| 21:32.29 | yukonbob | multiple X (or x, y, z etc) to speed up rotation |
| 21:33.31 | illethal | Thanks, awesome. |
| 21:33.41 | yukonbob | http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/housecomp.png |
| 21:33.51 | illethal | Nice renders |
| 21:34.08 | yukonbob | that's rt |
| 21:34.10 | illethal | That's like impossible for me to even imagine making. |
| 21:34.16 | illethal | In BRL-CAD. |
| 21:35.15 | yukonbob | anyway -- I'm really off -- welcome to BRL-CAD -- brlcad and ``Erik are the two primary devs (that I know) hang out here and are both friendly and helpful. |
| 21:35.39 | illethal | Thanks a lot, I'm gonna get into this. |
| 21:35.40 | illethal | See ya! |
| 21:38.42 | dtidrow_work | illethal: did you see some of the screenshots on the brl-cad website? |
| 21:39.43 | illethal | Nope |
| 21:39.53 | illethal | I did see Mike Muuss modelling an Abrams though. |
| 21:40.46 | illethal | I found it from Wiki. |
| 21:40.47 | dtidrow_work | heh, way back when... |
| 21:40.59 | dtidrow_work | http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292 |
| 21:41.18 | illethal | That's some fantastic ray tracing right there. |
| 21:41.30 | dtidrow_work | yeah - that Stryker model is intense |
| 21:41.39 | illethal | Is that the actual prototype? |
| 21:41.53 | dtidrow_work | probably |
| 21:42.04 | illethal | Just makes me want to master this even more. |
| 21:42.05 | dtidrow_work | think they have fielded them to Iraq now |
| 21:42.14 | illethal | Yeah I see them on the military channel all the time. |
| 21:42.25 | dtidrow_work | that model probably has all the internal details as well |
| 21:42.51 | illethal | Does that much geometry use up very much ram with BRL-CAD? |
| 21:43.09 | dtidrow_work | one of the main things that brl-cad is used for is vulnerability analysis, so they need to have all the internal details there |
| 21:43.27 | illethal | Like to weaponery? |
| 21:43.38 | illethal | Do you guys work for the government? |
| 21:43.44 | illethal | Cause that's what I want to do. |
| 21:44.00 | dtidrow_work | probably, but remember that most of the parts are CSG - cylinders, spheres, plates, etc. |
| 21:44.42 | dtidrow_work | and unions/intersections thereof, so the storage requirements are probably different than if you used polys for everything |
| 21:45.13 | dtidrow_work | well, some of the people here work for the gov't |
| 21:45.25 | illethal | The most hardcore geometry I've ever used is NURBS. |
| 21:45.31 | illethal | So I'm pretty noob to this. |
| 21:45.44 | dtidrow_work | though I think brlcad is actually a contractor |
| 21:46.04 | dtidrow_work | iirc, they have a nurbs model in brl-cad somewhere |
| 21:47.21 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726582.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 21:47.31 | illethal | http://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/apc/apcrender6.jpg |
| 21:47.40 | illethal | This is one of my models. |
| 21:47.53 | illethal | made in Maya though, super easy compared to this. |
| 21:48.45 | dtidrow_work | yeah, the modeling package for brl-cad could use some work :-) |
| 21:48.45 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/fzPoBS72.html <----- a mite |
| 21:49.34 | IriX64 | sorry to have intruded |
| 21:50.14 | illethal | What's this? |
| 21:51.20 | illethal | Hey. |
| 21:51.26 | dtidrow_work | heh, typical irc channel |
| 21:51.36 | dtidrow_work | people jump in the middle ;-) |
| 21:51.37 | illethal | I pressed f8 I think, and I got this yellow menu on the side. |
| 21:51.40 | illethal | How do I use it? |
| 21:51.43 | illethal | in Mged. |
| 21:51.48 | illethal | SOL EDIT. |
| 21:52.14 | illethal | http://micah.noobgrinder.com/misc/mged.jpg |
| 21:52.18 | dtidrow_work | illethal: I'm as much of a noob at mged as you :-\ |
| 21:52.58 | illethal | Oh noes! |
| 21:53.04 | illethal | It seems so cool though |
| 21:53.21 | dtidrow_work | day after thanksgiving is always a bit dead... |
| 21:53.34 | illethal | Oh yeah happy belated thanksgiving |
| 21:54.26 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/R57Eye19.html <---- nother, and whatd you see :) |
| 22:19.23 | illethal | Does anyone here use Linux? |
| 22:23.36 | dtidrow_work | several of the people here do |
| 22:23.49 | dtidrow_work | either that or some BSD variant |
| 22:24.04 | illethal | Do you know if BRL-CAD is in repositories and stuff? |
| 22:24.11 | illethal | If I can like get it with aptitude. |
| 22:24.20 | illethal | I'm on Windows right now |
| 22:24.38 | dtidrow_work | dunno about that, but it's easy to d/l the cvs version and compile |
| 22:25.17 | dtidrow_work | I think it's pretty much self-contained, but not entirely sure about that |
| 22:26.15 | illethal | Okay thanks. |
| 22:26.29 | illethal | So this is what the government uses to engineer all their weapons systems and tanks and stuff? |
| 22:27.27 | dtidrow_work | well, that's probably overstating things |
| 22:27.52 | illethal | Most of the tanks and weapons systems? =P |
| 22:28.30 | dtidrow_work | like I said, they do use it to analyze how vehicles respond to getting hit with various weapons |
| 22:28.52 | dtidrow_work | though brlcad can talk more about what all it's being used for |
| 22:29.09 | illethal | Cool. |
| 22:29.19 | illethal | I'd have to be a math genius to do that job though |
| 22:29.21 | illethal | Which I am not. |
| 22:30.36 | illethal | I'll be back later. |
| 22:30.43 | louipc | illethal: yeah I think there's a debian package |
| 22:31.03 | louipc | I'm on linux too, archlinux though |
| 22:37.49 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) | |
| 23:02.27 | illethal | Archlinux is awesome |
| 23:03.26 | louipc | hellyea |
| 23:03.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:03.47 | louipc | illethal: you can get brl-cad from AUR |
| 23:03.47 | illethal | Good day Erik. |
| 23:03.51 | ``Erik | 'sup? |
| 23:04.05 | illethal | Just got Mged, it's pretty cool. |
| 23:04.11 | illethal | Mega noob here =D |
| 23:04.30 | louipc | ``Erik is all about fbsd, he keeps making snide remarks about leewnooks or however he says it :P |
| 23:04.44 | ``Erik | :D |
| 23:04.47 | illethal | =( |
| 23:05.09 | ``Erik | I was putting together a make_deb.sh script, I dont' remember if I finished it or not |
| 23:05.25 | illethal | For what? |
| 23:05.33 | ``Erik | BRL-CAD |
| 23:05.53 | illethal | Cool. |
| 23:06.02 | ``Erik | it's in like misc/ or something if you wanna poke at it |
| 23:06.27 | illethal | I'm on Windows right now. |
| 23:06.33 | ``Erik | wait, the script is in sh/, the debian dir is in misc/ |
| 23:06.49 | illethal | brlcad.org/misc? |
| 23:07.00 | ``Erik | um, misc/ in the source tarball |
| 23:07.34 | illethal | brb food. |
| 23:07.35 | louipc | hmm I guess I could make an archlinux package just from a self-contained script... it's kind of odd to circumvent using the standard tools though |
| 23:07.43 | illethal | I use Ubuntu. |
| 23:07.49 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh?revision=1.8&view=markup |
| 23:08.05 | illethal | Man you guys are leet. |
| 23:08.16 | louipc | ? |
| 23:08.21 | illethal | Elite. |
| 23:08.38 | louipc | how's that? |
| 23:08.48 | illethal | Shell scripting for Linux. |
| 23:09.01 | louipc | shell scripting isn't leet |
| 23:09.11 | ``Erik | of course, the fbsd port 'just works', no special steps O:-) |
| 23:09.17 | louipc | assembly language is elite :D |
| 23:09.23 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:09.25 | illethal | Yeah |
| 23:09.28 | illethal | Asm is hard. |
| 23:09.30 | ``Erik | which assembly language? |
| 23:09.39 | illethal | I've used masm. |
| 23:09.44 | ``Erik | x86 asm is fugly, mips r2k is damn sexy |
| 23:10.00 | illethal | How old are you guys? |
| 23:10.06 | ``Erik | pdp and vax assembly was pretty cool |
| 23:10.13 | illethal | If you don't mind me asking. |
| 23:10.18 | ``Erik | <-- cut his teeth on 6502 asm |
| 23:10.25 | louipc | 24 |
| 23:10.26 | illethal | Haha |
| 23:10.37 | illethal | I'm 17. |
| 23:10.48 | louipc | cool |
| 23:11.00 | ``Erik | damn I'm old :( |
| 23:11.06 | illethal | Haha |
| 23:11.14 | illethal | You've probably been doing 3D since before I was born? |
| 23:11.45 | ``Erik | not really, I kinda poked at voxel stuff in the later 80's |
| 23:11.58 | illethal | Yeah that's before me. |
| 23:12.02 | ``Erik | but I didn't get into 3d shtuff until about 10 years ago |
| 23:12.06 | illethal | Ahh. |
| 23:12.18 | illethal | I started 3D stuff when I was 13. |
| 23:12.21 | ``Erik | with opengl, raytracing, 2d raster (like doom/quake) |
| 23:12.30 | illethal | 1337. |
| 23:12.33 | illethal | =D |
| 23:12.44 | ``Erik | but I was doing kernel hacking before you were born, does that count? :) |
| 23:12.48 | illethal | I could learn a lot from you guys. |
| 23:13.00 | illethal | Kernel hacking, as in, modifying the kernel? |
| 23:13.05 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:13.08 | illethal | Awesome. |
| 23:13.12 | ``Erik | writing new chunks |
| 23:13.22 | illethal | We didn't get a computer until 1995. |
| 23:13.29 | ``Erik | and coding in a language lower level than assembly. |
| 23:13.37 | illethal | Machine language? |
| 23:13.42 | illethal | What language is that lol |
| 23:13.55 | ``Erik | yeah, 'monitor' mnemonics |
| 23:14.19 | illethal | Hardcore. |
| 23:14.20 | louipc | shoot I don't even think I got a computer till 95 |
| 23:14.38 | illethal | Haha |
| 23:14.45 | illethal | my brother got a computer in 1995. |
| 23:14.55 | illethal | I was only 5 so I just played the sims on it. |
| 23:14.56 | illethal | And doom. |
| 23:14.58 | illethal | Haha. |
| 23:15.41 | ``Erik | my first was a coleco adam (z80 cp/m machine) in like '83 |
| 23:15.58 | illethal | You could afford a computer? |
| 23:16.01 | illethal | Back then. |
| 23:16.28 | illethal | Oh it's a game console. |
| 23:16.29 | ``Erik | my dad could, heh |
| 23:16.31 | illethal | ? |
| 23:16.33 | ``Erik | no, it's a real computer |
| 23:16.39 | illethal | Like the C64? |
| 23:16.51 | illethal | I want to get a commodore =) |
| 23:16.54 | ``Erik | it could also run intellivision cartridges and had an expansion to take atari cartridges |
| 23:17.23 | ``Erik | um, kinda like a c64, but a z80 chip and ran cp/m... big uglier |
| 23:17.28 | illethal | Man I wish I was into computers when I was 3. |
| 23:17.41 | ``Erik | kinda closer to an old ibm type |
| 23:18.03 | illethal | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Coleco-adam.jpg |
| 23:18.09 | ``Erik | check out http://www.viceteam.org/ :D |
| 23:18.21 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 23:18.22 | illethal | That thing has tape? |
| 23:18.36 | louipc | I wish I was into guitars when I was 3 |
| 23:18.39 | ``Erik | uh huh |
| 23:18.48 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:18.59 | illethal | Ooh |
| 23:19.08 | illethal | I wouldn't have any progs for 8bit computers |
| 23:19.14 | illethal | But I've played with some music trackers. |
| 23:19.17 | ``Erik | http://www.cs.uakron.edu/~margush/465/01_images/adam-computer.jpg |
| 23:19.19 | illethal | Never could figure out how to get it to work. |
| 23:19.30 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: "and coding in a language lower level than assembly" - you were writing microcode? |
| 23:19.33 | illethal | I bet that thing was fun. |
| 23:19.59 | ``Erik | don: monitor mnems, it was a simple translator that immediately puts the 'compiled' bite into the bit of memory |
| 23:20.00 | dtidrow_work | that was out around the same time as the C64 |
| 23:20.09 | dtidrow_work | ``Erik: ah |
| 23:20.10 | ``Erik | byte |
| 23:20.25 | illethal | Old schoolers =) |
| 23:20.33 | ``Erik | which was pretty cool, no 'compile' phase, etc |
| 23:20.46 | dtidrow_work | was thinking about being able to re-do the microcode on a 11-780 |
| 23:20.47 | illethal | What kind of programs did you make? |
| 23:21.25 | ``Erik | code up your nifty interrupt driven kernel 'wedge', then write the address into the interrupt vector table and boom, it's clicking... and when ya realize you screwed up, you power cycle the machine |
| 23:21.58 | ``Erik | 'simh's support for the 11/780 is getting fairly decent |
| 23:23.12 | illethal | You own brlcad.org? |
| 23:23.45 | ``Erik | no, brlcad does |
| 23:23.50 | illethal | Ah. |
| 23:23.54 | illethal | You just have access? |
| 23:24.02 | ``Erik | ayup |
| 23:24.04 | louipc | so is that a domain in his namesake or the software's? |
| 23:24.06 | illethal | Nevermind, stupid question =P |
| 23:24.14 | illethal | Haha. |
| 23:25.15 | ``Erik | it's his namesake, his parents were real asses. :D if he woulda been named 'bob', he woulda probably went to work for microsoft when they had that, uh, "product" :D |
| 23:25.45 | louipc | hahahah |
| 23:26.37 | illethal | ``Erik: Do you use mged? |
| 23:26.51 | ``Erik | when I have to... I usually use it in 'classic' mode (mged -c) |
| 23:27.11 | illethal | How do I change the shape of an object? |
| 23:29.32 | ``Erik | um, if you want to do something that'll still keep the object the same type, 'sed' it... (solid editor)... if you want to change the type, you have to delete it and create the new one |
| 23:29.55 | illethal | What do you mean by type? |
| 23:29.58 | illethal | Change the primative? |
| 23:30.00 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 23:30.11 | illethal | Okay how do I get out the sed? |
| 23:30.24 | ``Erik | um, 'accept' or 'reject', they're on the menu |
| 23:31.01 | illethal | o.O |
| 23:31.05 | ``Erik | ummm, go to http://www.brlcad.org and download 'princeples of effective modeling' (#3) |
| 23:31.21 | ``Erik | it's a tutorial for basic use of mged |
| 23:31.36 | illethal | okay |
| 23:31.42 | louipc | d/l #2 as well |
| 23:31.57 | ``Erik | the quick ref card is handy, as well |
| 23:32.18 | illethal | Checking out #3 as of the moment =) |
| 23:33.57 | illethal | That abrams model is freakin' incredible. |
| 23:34.12 | ``Erik | erm, which abrams model? |
| 23:34.29 | illethal | The green one showing the exterior. |
| 23:34.36 | illethal | Looks like a blinn I think |
| 23:35.46 | ``Erik | erm, ohh, page 3 |
| 23:36.09 | illethal | Yeah. |
| 23:36.13 | illethal | Can you model that well? |
| 23:40.05 | illethal | Hmmm |
| 23:45.31 | ``Erik | damnit |
| 23:45.52 | ``Erik | I installed 'sl' on my home box to fuck with people I give accounts to, but I think I'm the only one who gets stung by it :( |
| 00:00.04 | b0ef | didn't someone convert it to xml recently? |
| 00:00.42 | ``Erik | um, a couple of people were working on converting the documentation to, uh, 'docbook' markup I think |
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| 03:03.22 | louipc | docbook xml yeah |
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| 08:39.38 | Z80-Boy | How to raytrace an object with an image on the background? |
| 08:39.49 | Z80-Boy | Without sacrificing one RGB combination as a background flag? |
| 08:58.01 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: rt -d1 reports improperly the floating point distance on pixels that miss the model. Instead of infinity it reports zero. |
| 08:58.22 | Z80-Boy | Zero means the model is next to the eye |
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| 18:24.25 | illethal | Good day. |
| 20:39.19 | louipc | hi ho |
| 20:40.00 | illethal | How's it going? |
| 20:40.15 | louipc | not bad. how are you liking mged? |
| 20:40.46 | illethal | Complex, but fun. |
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| 19:23.00 | yukonbob | ~lart empty room |
| 19:23.00 | ibot | throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at empty room |
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| 21:11.16 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
| 21:17.13 | alex_joni | 'lo |
| 22:01.26 | louipc | yo |
| 22:05.08 | alex_joni | g'night all |
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| 23:49.06 | yukonbob | SHHHHH -- people are sleeping in here... |
| 00:55.08 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 01:30.48 | ``Erik | SILENCE! |
| 01:34.41 | yukonbob | ~lart the silence breakers |
| 01:34.41 | ibot | squeezes the silence breakers till the silence breakers turns blue like papa smurf |
| 03:41.58 | ``Erik | O.o |
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| 10:22.21 | Wim | Hi all |
| 10:22.43 | Wim | I'm new to IRC, so have a little patience |
| 10:23.12 | Wim | I'v a question about compiling BRL-CAD with Visual Studio 2005 |
| 10:23.48 | Wim | I tried to compile using the solution brlcad\misc\win32-msvc8\brlcad\brlcad.sln |
| 10:24.19 | Wim | But what I get are errors about missing *.h files (zlib.h among others) |
| 10:24.56 | Wim | Do I need to tweak all the projects and add all the missing include folders? |
| 10:26.51 | Wim | I think its good to introduce myself. I am Wim Bokkers, a software engineer at TNO, The Netherlands. |
| 10:27.37 | Defcon | welcome fellow Developper |
| 10:27.53 | Defcon | for you question, wait for brlcad or ``Erik |
| 10:28.02 | Defcon | i'm sure they can help you |
| 10:28.37 | Wim | Yhank you for your welcome. |
| 10:28.48 | Wim | I will wait patiently.. |
| 10:28.52 | Defcon | good :) |
| 10:30.46 | Defcon | <CIA-27> BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Add 12 more projects. |
| 10:31.00 | Defcon | seems like you need bob1961 |
| 10:31.13 | Defcon | but he isn't here atm |
| 10:32.12 | Defcon | maybe it's yukonbob |
| 10:32.45 | Wim | ok. I think that there no IRC history logged and that I can better ask my question again when he is here? |
| 10:34.06 | Defcon | this channel is logged |
| 10:34.37 | Defcon | http://purl.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ |
| 10:35.44 | Wim | I see. Interesting. |
| 12:12.58 | *** join/#brlcad Wim (i=565a580f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-d9b36286c193282a) | |
| 12:18.26 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (56 files in 56 dirs): Updates related to new Tcl/Tk. |
| 12:20.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/library/pkgIndex.tcl itk/library/pkgIndex.tcl): Update version. |
| 12:30.18 | Wim | @CIA-28: does this mean that the win32 solution is currently being updated? |
| 12:30.52 | Defcon | it's always being updated |
| 12:31.02 | Defcon | and CIA-28 is a bot that announces the changes |
| 12:31.10 | Wim | Ok. I see. |
| 12:31.14 | Defcon | bob1961 made that change |
| 12:31.17 | Wim | Much to learn here |
| 12:31.39 | Defcon | extreeemely much to learn here |
| 12:31.44 | Defcon | that's why i'm here 2 |
| 12:31.44 | Defcon | :) |
| 12:32.12 | Wim | yes. And to help guys like me |
| 12:32.22 | Wim | ;) |
| 12:32.27 | Defcon | not much i can help u with :) |
| 12:32.33 | Defcon | i'm not part of this project |
| 12:32.45 | Wim | well, i learned something from you |
| 12:32.51 | Defcon | i am a VS2005 developer tho |
| 12:32.55 | Defcon | ohw |
| 12:33.22 | Wim | Ok. Within a few days/week I'm a VS2008 developer. |
| 12:33.35 | Defcon | true |
| 12:33.41 | Defcon | it's being shipped :) |
| 12:33.55 | Defcon | but i didn't order it yet |
| 12:34.10 | Defcon | i=my company |
| 12:34.21 | Wim | I saw it. And i will place the order soon. |
| 12:35.08 | Wim | i=me and my company ;) |
| 12:35.14 | Defcon | my company says it's not necessary yet |
| 12:35.16 | Defcon | :) |
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| 12:42.00 | Wim | seems like I annoy people ;-) |
| 12:42.01 | Defcon | haha |
| 12:46.05 | Wim | At this moment bob1961 is busy with the VS8 solution. So I assume that 'my' problem will be solved soon. |
| 12:46.15 | Wim | I'm leaving... |
| 12:46.22 | Defcon | ok :) |
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| 16:05.29 | PrezKennedy | eww VS developers |
| 16:05.32 | PrezKennedy | haha |
| 16:06.26 | PrezKennedy | hey brlcad how was your thanksgiving? |
| 16:06.42 | PrezKennedy | i was home with the folks for the first time in about 3 months |
| 16:09.13 | Defcon | :p |
| 16:10.29 | brlcad | howdy PrezKennedy, twas good |
| 16:10.33 | brlcad | away |
| 16:11.12 | brlcad | howdy Wim :) |
| 17:12.01 | PrezKennedy | thats good brlcad |
| 17:13.28 | brlcad | you all stayed in md? |
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| 17:38.53 | prasad_ | anyone know of a lightweight c++ 2d geometry library? (i just need point & vector) |
| 18:25.46 | prasad_ | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ajw/doc/svl.html :D |
| 18:29.11 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, yep... stayed in MD... but northern MD seems like a whole different state than southern... |
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| 21:18.26 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now | |
| 22:23.28 | minute | In case anyone is interested about the status of the new website: http://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=3 |
| 22:24.34 | alex_joni | it's not looking quite right in opera |
| 22:24.47 | minute | I know. |
| 22:24.48 | alex_joni | want a screenshot? or you know about it? |
| 22:24.57 | alex_joni | ok then :) |
| 22:25.26 | minute | I probably know about it, but the theme is going under a rewrite so none of the current bugs are relevant. Thanks anyway. |
| 22:30.33 | poolio | errr w/ the website, the footer reads "All trademarks referenced her" and then goes under the search field |
| 22:30.50 | poolio | mildly amusin g:) |
| 22:30.59 | minute | I bet. |
| 23:30.03 | yukonbob | afternoon, cadheads |
| 00:00.11 | brlcad | howdy bob |
| 00:30.51 | yukonbob | hey brlcad -- what's shaking? |
| 00:31.19 | yukonbob | heh -- we've got a half-hour lag -- I'll tune back in @ 5 localtime for your reply... |
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| 07:45.05 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/pkgIndex.tcl.in itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in): unclobber the pkg templates. the IT?.LIB_FILE names aren't presently expanded properly until we use incrtcl's configure. |
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| 07:48.02 | DEFCON_ | hi wim |
| 07:50.57 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the Tcl TEA build infrastructure, namely the tcl.m4 macro set, so we can locate/load the tcl/tkConfig.sh scripts that can in turn be loaded so we get the correct TCL_VERSION |
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| 08:01.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: set ITCL_LIB_FILE to something half-sensible (even if we probably can't package require archives) |
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| 19:38.20 | brlcad | shame didn't get to grab ahold of Wim |
| 19:38.22 | brlcad | ls -la |
| 19:38.39 | brlcad | need to make that an alias for /names or something :) |
| 19:39.04 | brlcad | so I ran into a nasty universal binary bug for the release |
| 19:39.21 | brlcad | not so much a bug as it is "not what I wanted dammit" |
| 19:40.55 | brlcad | even knew the problem.. but completely forgot when it came time to release. we need run-time endian checks for our byteoffsets and the rest of machine.h |
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| 20:45.05 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review and integrate David Loman's bot-processing and object diagram/labelling scripts. need a better libdm interface for doing textual overlays in mged. |
| 20:45.05 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
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| 21:13.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: Open dialog in MGED seems rather busted for scrolling and selection |
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| 21:33.31 | louipc | ``Erik: do you use a debian specific app to create the pkg from files in misc/debian? |
| 21:33.54 | ``Erik | yeah, uh, debhelper, fakeroot and uhhhh |
| 21:34.17 | ``Erik | debuild or something |
| 21:34.19 | ``Erik | devscripts... |
| 21:34.41 | ``Erik | sh/make_deb.sh does some looking around to make sure the expected environment is there... |
| 21:35.12 | ``Erik | if you can expand it to work well with debian derivatives, that'd be nutty O.o |
| 21:35.26 | louipc | ok hehe :D |
| 21:37.02 | louipc | yeah I was wondering if I should add a script to the archlinux stuff to make a pkg rather than use the distro tools. But I think I'll make it use distro tools then |
| 21:37.39 | louipc | yukonbob: howdy |
| 21:48.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: |
| 21:48.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: comment on the extensive DEPRECATED nature of the defines, types, and values |
| 21:48.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: provided by this file indicating whether it's a symbols that's going away, |
| 21:48.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: turning into a compile- or run-time check, or simply moving somewhere else. |
| 21:48.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: ultimately, this entire header should get absorbed into other headers |
| 21:48.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: (particularly those of libbu), though the method differs for each symbol. |
| 21:50.06 | yukonbob | brlcad: hey :) -- got your head above water? |
| 21:50.39 | ``Erik | oh, uh, would it be beneficial to start marking the region id deprecated? |
| 21:50.58 | ``Erik | some, uh, java code is looking to use it instead of the path... |
| 21:57.25 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
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| 22:36.00 | brlcad | yukonbob: not quite yet :) |
| 22:59.55 | yukonbob | ~lart the shark |
| 22:59.55 | ibot | drops a baby grand on the shark |
| 23:00.11 | yukonbob | ~lart the shark |
| 23:00.11 | ibot | frags the shark with his BFG9000 |
| 23:00.15 | yukonbob | better |
| 23:00.22 | yukonbob | ~lart the sharks |
| 23:00.22 | ibot | changes the sharks's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 23:00.42 | yukonbob | hrmm... not sure that's going to help. |
| 23:03.26 | brlcad | ~bzfrag the sharks |
| 23:03.27 | ibot | ACTION makes the sharks feel the effects of a shockwave |
| 23:03.36 | brlcad | ~insult the sharks |
| 23:04.01 | brlcad | that's deep |
| 23:07.39 | dtidrow_work | ~lart the sharks |
| 23:07.39 | ibot | pries the sharks's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to the sharks |
| 23:07.53 | yukonbob | ! |
| 23:08.11 | yukonbob | nothing to worry about now... |
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| 04:01.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX: |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: beef up the IRIX readme with addition details encountered with the problem I ran |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: into with (yet another stupid) libtool linkage problems/bugs. more |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: specifically, libtool was leaving out three librt object files that were in the |
| 04:01.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: librt_nil.la convenience library. turns out they were getting prelinked into a |
| 04:01.31 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: '.al' pre-link archive with just the .l nm symbol instead of .lo causing |
| 04:01.33 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: subsequent linkage failures due to the symbols that get left out. |
| 04:19.21 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make byteoffset and run-time byteorder detections necessary in order for Mac OS X universal binaries to actually work |
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| 13:55.10 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: fix (type)(size_t)val hacks |
| 13:56.28 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view_bot_faces.c: (type)(size_t)val hack to quell compiler warning... |
| 14:12.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (53 files in 12 dirs): LOCAL->static, per machine.h deprecation list |
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| 20:57.30 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h tie_define.h tie_kdtree.c tie_struct.h): merge of the "other" libtie... |
| 21:07.12 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r350 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/ (5 files in 2 dirs): sources go in src |
| 21:12.50 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r352 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc8/stupidBot.vcproj: add url handler for RSS feed reading |
| 21:15.11 | ``Erik | I'm classy! :D |
| 21:15.41 | yukonbob | ~bzfrag boogers |
| 21:15.42 | ibot | ACTION fries boogers with a laser |
| 22:20.14 | brlcad | ``Erik: you committed a bunch of tclIndex changes again (that clobbered what they are supposed to contain) |
| 22:21.00 | brlcad | looks like your indices were generated from a bad btclsh, didn't have incrTcl properly loaded/initialized so it wiped out things |
| 22:21.26 | brlcad | the tclIndex files throughout src/tclscripts |
| 22:36.53 | yukonbob | brlcad: you and I were having a discussion re: tclIndex's whether they are for runtime or buildtime, right? |
| 22:37.43 | brlcad | mmm.. not ringing a specific bell :) |
| 22:38.03 | brlcad | they are runtime araik |
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| 22:39.44 | louipc | it needs some build stub for building |
| 22:39.52 | louipc | in tclConfig.sh |
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| 22:44.03 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (62 files in 62 dirs): Mods to use the new install tree. |
| 22:44.46 | brlcad | louipc: ah, I do remember us talking about whether the .sh scripts for for run- or build-time |
| 22:45.13 | brlcad | I actually have it using tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh now in our configure |
| 22:46.05 | brlcad | I made that change just last night so that I could get the "actual" version number of what we're compiling against without resorting to a test app |
| 22:46.13 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/treeInit.sh: Initial check-in (not finished, checking in for safety) |
| 22:46.48 | brlcad | itclConfig.sh is a little more tricky, though, since we don't presently have/use incrTcl's build system |
| 22:47.22 | louipc | hah so that's why it works! |
| 22:48.38 | louipc | yeah I haven't had the initiative to completely learn about building tcl extensions to package them separately so I just let brl-cad take care of it |
| 23:24.30 | starseeker | brlcad: I see the tcl and tk config scripts in configure - cool :-) |
| 23:26.44 | starseeker | Is the plan also to use /usr/lib/itclConfig.sh? |
| 23:26.44 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 23:29.15 | louipc | talking about tcl stuff is taxing |
| 23:29.22 | starseeker | indeed |
| 23:30.17 | brlcad | starseeker: problem is that it's not guaranteed to be in that path |
| 23:30.26 | starseeker | brlcad: Ah. |
| 23:30.39 | brlcad | I need incrTcl's m4 file so that it searches for it like tcl.m4 searches for tclConfig.sh |
| 23:31.21 | brlcad | or at least need to replicate the searching logic |
| 23:31.23 | starseeker | Gentoo's install doesn't seem to include the m4 file. Hmm... |
| 23:31.33 | brlcad | yeah, the m4 isn't installed |
| 23:31.35 | brlcad | even for tcl |
| 23:31.38 | brlcad | afaik |
| 23:31.48 | starseeker | Argh. |
| 23:32.08 | brlcad | we just need to try rolling incrtcl back to using the incrtcl build |
| 23:32.43 | brlcad | the biggest problem with that is incrtcl's build is exceptionally weak and was outright broken on several important platforms last I tried |
| 23:32.55 | louipc | gentoo uses some sed lines to change the specified build paths to point to some installed libstubs I think |
| 23:32.55 | brlcad | quite a lot of short-term hacks in it |
| 23:33.28 | starseeker | Ugh. I don't suppose they could be persuaded to fix that? |
| 23:33.54 | brlcad | there's like two guys that work on incrtcl |
| 23:34.11 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 23:34.11 | brlcad | one's a tcl dev that fixes things only as much as he needs to |
| 23:34.31 | brlcad | the other (the main author) is a prof at a uni that works on it really hard for two weeks, and then nothing for 6 months |
| 23:34.57 | starseeker | So the build system isn't likely to be high on the priority list. |
| 23:35.01 | starseeker | Joy |
| 23:35.24 | yukonbob | well -- I'm sure if it's patched and presented to them it'd be considered... no? |
| 23:35.41 | louipc | tcl, itcl, etc seem to have really odd build systems to me |
| 23:35.55 | brlcad | well, I still have to do *something* since right now there's no way to have brl-cad compile incrTcl and have it use anything but the same matching version of tcl installed on the system |
| 23:36.26 | brlcad | yukonbob: I've got patches on incrtcl's patches tracker that remained open for two years before :) |
| 23:36.34 | yukonbob | :P |
| 23:36.57 | louipc | :( |
| 23:37.00 | brlcad | they finally got around to the tracker item after they'd finally ran into the problem themselves and had since changed the interface |
| 23:37.51 | starseeker | brlcad: Would they consider giving you commit access? |
| 23:38.55 | louipc | I bet there a few other ppl that would like commit access too |
| 23:39.01 | yukonbob | re: incrtcl + tcl versions -- it could be nice, but perhaps we should consider that "it makes sense" since incrtcl is so intimate with tcl... so one builds incrtcl w/ tcl (as supplied by brl-cad distro), or supplies a working incrtcl installation (which implies a tcl installation that already works with it) |
| 23:40.45 | brlcad | starseeker: hard to say -- I've had that discussion with the tcl guys several times over the years |
| 23:40.58 | brlcad | probably possible if someone bugged him enough about it |
| 23:41.21 | brlcad | bigger problem seemed to simply be that the tcl devs really (really *really*) don't like incrTcl |
| 23:41.42 | brlcad | even though it is by far the most used OO extension |
| 23:41.52 | starseeker | political? |
| 23:41.57 | brlcad | to the extent that they developed their own, and nobody liked it |
| 23:42.02 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 23:42.05 | brlcad | so now they're redoing it again |
| 23:42.10 | brlcad | but part of the tcl core |
| 23:42.26 | starseeker | Is that one of the reasons for the 8.5 delay? |
| 23:42.29 | brlcad | which was their biggest complaint with incrTcl .. that it hooked into tcl's core |
| 23:43.18 | brlcad | yeah, stupid whiney devs, political issues and posturing |
| 23:43.26 | yukonbob | well, I think that tcl core is providing facilities for OOP, that one can leverage, which are taken from best of incrtcl, snit, etc., for using as resources for future OOP interfaces -- a la X providing facilities, not policies. |
| 23:43.51 | brlcad | yukonbob: yeah, their end result isn't likely going to be bad .. |
| 23:44.03 | brlcad | it was just that they're just now getting to the point where incrTcl was five years ago |
| 23:44.27 | brlcad | feature-wise at least |
| 23:44.38 | starseeker | Well, considering the state of the Axiom community I suppose I'm in no position to comment... |
| 23:44.49 | brlcad | most of the complaints that I know of were implementation under-the-hood details |
| 23:45.17 | starseeker | Hmm. Is there hope then that porting from incrTcl to the new core Tcl stuff would be straightforward? |
| 23:45.23 | brlcad | I mean, I get the complaints about code maintainability and cleanliness.. but the idea was to *integrate* incrTcl into tcl, so it used the core |
| 23:45.42 | yukonbob | well -- so be it... my impression of the development is that there is a really concerted effort for "correctness", and incrtcl _always_ rubbed people the wrong way because of it's tinkering with the core (cheap solution) -- now they're at the place where it's as functional as incrtcl 5 years ago, but the code can be looked at and deemed "correct" or "good looking". |
| 23:45.49 | brlcad | and left plenty of room for refactoring and cleaning up .. they just didn't like the code |
| 23:46.45 | starseeker | Oh, well. So it goes. |
| 23:46.48 | brlcad | yukonbob: correct only moreso because they wrote it and now understand it rather than it actually being architecturally very different code-wise |
| 23:47.01 | yukonbob | brlcad++ |
| 23:47.10 | yukonbob | or [incr brlcad] ;) |
| 23:47.16 | louipc | nooooo |
| 23:47.20 | yukonbob | there is a "Tclish" way to do things |
| 23:48.20 | louipc | L? |
| 23:48.38 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:48.47 | yukonbob | tcl, refactored |
| 23:49.00 | brlcad | set brlcad [expr $brlcad + 1] |
| 23:50.28 | yukonbob | tcl 8.5 gets lambdas |
| 23:50.47 | starseeker | Heh - brlcad is still away - coding at the gym now? ;-) |
| 23:58.31 | louipc | hah they don't? |
| 23:59.05 | louipc | I could get my math exercises via a website in .ps format |
| 23:59.12 | louipc | years ago |
| 00:00.45 | starseeker | It depends. Apparently FIT doesn't, or maybe this one is just too old... |
| 00:01.26 | starseeker | Or too obscure... my interests do seem to run that way sometimes |
| 00:04.27 | brlcad | haven't made it out the door actually |
| 00:05.05 | louipc | starseeker: maybe they just have a really weird delivery system |
| 00:05.32 | starseeker | made an interesting mental image - brlcad on a runner coding away |
| 00:05.41 | brlcad | african swallows |
| 00:05.50 | brlcad | starseeker: i've done that before |
| 00:05.59 | starseeker | Does it burn more calories? ;-) |
| 00:06.21 | brlcad | the jolting is a bit hard though.. elliptical or bike are slightly easier |
| 00:06.37 | starseeker | Ah, yes. I'm an elliptical fan myself |
| 00:07.19 | starseeker | louipc: Apparently some years back someone implemented a basic Lisp using Forth as a substrate |
| 00:07.45 | starseeker | louipc: They published a paper and a thesis, and so far I can't find either one online anywhere. |
| 00:08.14 | louipc | hmm |
| 00:08.26 | starseeker | My local library couldn't even request the thesis from the college itself successfully - I'm going to have to try ordering a physical back issue of the journal |
| 00:09.00 | starseeker | I suppose it's not an idea that would appeal to most people anyway... |
| 00:09.42 | starseeker | It's of interest to me in the context of building a proof backed system all the way down to the machine language itself |
| 00:09.56 | louipc | I guess not otherwise it might be more accessible |
| 00:10.28 | starseeker | I've got half a notion to scan the whole lot of 'em if I do get ahold of them, but regrettably our copyright laws have something to say about that... |
| 00:12.16 | louipc | in canada it's legal to put a book on a photocopier, just not to push the copy button or something |
| 00:12.48 | starseeker | LOL. So all you need is a "smart" copier that identifies when a document is there and automatically copies it :-) |
| 00:13.32 | louipc | they used that analogy in some p2p case ... so it's legal to present the public with what backup copies of software, music, or movies |
| 00:13.54 | brlcad | academic use is one of the fair use clauses |
| 00:14.56 | brlcad | I scanned several entire books in college at the uni library |
| 00:14.59 | louipc | starseeker: yeah you wouldn't sell it would you now? |
| 00:15.44 | starseeker | No, but I understand that's irrelevant to copyright infringement |
| 00:16.15 | starseeker | It has something to do with what damages you can collect, IIRC... |
| 00:17.55 | starseeker | So few people actually want to learn things, the fewer artificial barriers around knowledge the better |
| 00:19.16 | starseeker | Particularly publicly funded research - the tax payers are paying for it, after all... |
| 00:19.35 | louipc | yeah of course if it's publicly funded |
| 00:20.02 | starseeker | I guess when universities noticed the revenue they could get from patents generated by research that was more or less the end of the "knowledge for knowledge's sake" environment... |
| 00:22.39 | starseeker | Maybe that's why I like open source so much - there's still a sense of fun in it |
| 00:23.30 | louipc | I like it because there's a sense of hope in it |
| 00:25.40 | starseeker | That too |
| 00:26.46 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:26.56 | ``Erik | starseekers unified theory of computation? "it's forth all the way down"? |
| 00:27.02 | starseeker | :-) |
| 00:27.34 | starseeker | More along the lines of "I need a way to get from machine language to Lisp that has a hope of being understood by a wide audience" |
| 00:27.52 | ``Erik | oh, uh |
| 00:27.56 | ``Erik | pdp assembly isn't that? |
| 00:28.09 | starseeker | pdp assembly? |
| 00:28.21 | ``Erik | or ibm 704 asm? :D |
| 00:28.38 | starseeker | Ah :-). The other requirement is portability. |
| 00:28.55 | starseeker | I've heard it said you can get to a working Forth environment in a very small number of machine instructions |
| 00:29.12 | ``Erik | so get a 704 emulator |
| 00:29.27 | ``Erik | I mean, shit, 'car' and 'cdr' come from 704 opcodes... |
| 00:29.51 | starseeker | It may be possible to do a VERY basic Lisp straight from machine code |
| 00:29.59 | starseeker | That was the first Lisp, after all |
| 00:31.43 | ``Erik | hmmm, indeed O.o |
| 00:31.59 | ``Erik | a minimal lithp can be done in 7 operations |
| 00:32.04 | starseeker | Sweet |
| 00:32.15 | ``Erik | uhm, paul graham has a paper explaining each of them |
| 00:32.19 | starseeker | I wonder what the actual minimal bootstrap path is |
| 00:32.31 | ``Erik | then you need another dozen or so to make a useful lisp, which will still need bits of asm |
| 00:32.37 | starseeker | Sure. |
| 00:33.07 | ``Erik | but after those 7, you quickly go from writing asm to writing lithp with a little augmenting goop under the hood |
| 00:34.02 | starseeker | That could be a way to go. |
| 00:34.15 | ``Erik | (or writing forth, or writing ...) |
| 00:34.38 | starseeker | The key is understandability, and (possibly) being able to prove properties of code |
| 00:35.26 | ``Erik | then you naturally want to avoid silicon like x86... |
| 00:35.51 | ``Erik | :D |
| 00:35.59 | starseeker | Indeed. If at all practical, I would prefer to build a system using open cores and hardware... |
| 00:36.13 | starseeker | I think the ultrasparc specs are out there, aren't they? |
| 00:36.30 | ``Erik | the reason I'm keen on a lithp/scheme 'primitive' operating system is to get away from things like mixing C function semantics with lithp function semantics |
| 00:37.21 | ``Erik | I think so, uh, 'opensparc' or something? there're other specs that might be better to address... naturally, you want hte simplest ISA with minimal 'fancy' stuff if you really want provability... taht is, if you don't assume the hw is magic... |
| 00:37.40 | starseeker | Ah - ha: http://www.opensparc.net/opensparc-t2/ |
| 00:37.55 | ``Erik | cache, pipelines, variable sized opcodes, ... all complications :) |
| 00:38.33 | starseeker | My take on it is pretty much as follows: From the software standpoint, start with machine language as the assumed correct layer and work up. Everything below that is subject to experimental verification |
| 00:39.02 | starseeker | Of course, some hardware designs can be verified in theory, but that's just part of the platform design. |
| 00:39.04 | ``Erik | dig into some OS code sometime, there're so many workarounds for flawed hw, its'sick |
| 00:39.12 | starseeker | Indeed |
| 00:39.56 | starseeker | We could just do an implementation of the lisp machine on a chip, but I'd prefer something that has a non-zero chance of doing useful work within this century ;-) |
| 00:40.08 | ``Erik | hrmmmm |
| 00:40.14 | ``Erik | but those did useful work in the 80's |
| 00:40.27 | starseeker | True enough. |
| 00:40.39 | ``Erik | arrogant academic spazzes crappe all over thenotion of 'business sense' (cuz it was evil) |
| 00:40.51 | ``Erik | or somethin' |
| 00:40.58 | yukonbob | SPARC is only a spec... |
| 00:41.00 | starseeker | I've always wondered what a from scratch implementation of a "modern" OS would actually need from hardware, if it didn't have to do any legacy support |
| 00:41.30 | starseeker | For sure Windows Vista isn't a good way to judge... |
| 00:41.34 | ``Erik | what exactly defines "operating system", "modern, and "legacy support"? |
| 00:41.51 | ``Erik | thems're fuzzy topics :D |
| 00:42.31 | starseeker | Capable of at least opengl level graphics, multithreaded multitasking, and implementing compilers/drivers/etc only for one hardware design |
| 00:42.33 | yukonbob | starseeker: see NetBSD -- one codebase to rule them all... |
| 00:42.40 | starseeker | yukonbob: Heh |
| 00:42.47 | ``Erik | is "posix" legacy support? |
| 00:42.59 | starseeker | ``Erik: Good question. |
| 00:42.59 | ``Erik | what about supporting a ps/2 kbd when usb is available? |
| 00:43.11 | starseeker | I'd say usb only |
| 00:43.24 | ``Erik | how modern is modern? everything these days seems to be rehashing of things that were popular 20-50 years ago |
| 00:43.26 | starseeker | (so long as adapters exist for my IBM keyboard ;-) |
| 00:43.52 | starseeker | ``Erik: Oh, I don't dispute it's a fuzzy topic |
| 00:43.54 | ``Erik | is opengl all that modern? |
| 00:44.09 | starseeker | No, but it seems to still be a useful graphical standard. |
| 00:44.21 | yukonbob | ``Erik: opengl?!!! Two minutes ago we were talking about lisp! |
| 00:44.47 | ``Erik | what defines a thread? a sun style "string"? or a UNIX process? or the linux 'whatever you specify' monstrosity? |
| 00:44.47 | yukonbob | back to the future. |
| 00:45.10 | starseeker | yukonbob: In order to support 3D graphics, you need to be able to work with graphics hardware. There are some lisp implementations of opengl, IIRC, but they are very basic... |
| 00:45.35 | starseeker | ``Erik: There I'm not an expert. |
| 00:45.36 | ``Erik | yukonbob: I'm trying to tear down starseekers vague requirements... personally, I LIKE both lisp and opengl |
| 00:46.21 | yukonbob | starseeker: of course -- I was just joking about definitions of "modern" and OpenGL -- but a couple minutes ago you were talking about implenting Lisp in Forth -- funny how "standards" change (for some definition of "standards") |
| 00:46.24 | starseeker | I'm not disputing those requirements are vague. I just know I wouldn't want to try using a modern interactive CAD modeling environment on a 386 with no graphics acceleration ;-) |
| 00:46.48 | ``Erik | hum |
| 00:46.50 | starseeker | yukonbob: They're all part of the solution to the problem, or they might be |
| 00:46.54 | ``Erik | like one of those? |
| 00:47.02 | starseeker | Bingo :-) |
| 00:47.52 | yukonbob | "a 386 with no gfx acceleration" is an implementation detail -- not a design requirement. |
| 00:48.13 | starseeker | It's an example of a system that would not meet the requirements |
| 00:48.38 | yukonbob | what's that got to do with OS design, though? |
| 00:49.22 | yukonbob | and what are the "requirements"? It wasn't *that* long ago where one would start a render and wait many, many hours for it to finish... |
| 00:49.25 | starseeker | Well, the original motivating problem was/is to create a computer algebra system that produces answers that can be trusted |
| 00:49.58 | yukonbob | well -- are you saying 80386s are not trustworthy? Maybe moreso than some pentiums ;) |
| 00:49.58 | starseeker | so that's where discussions of hardware come in, because if your hardware can't be trusted it's game over before the software even begins... |
| 00:50.35 | ``Erik | thus my argument for absolute minimal hw... :D wtf does ogl have to do with provable computation? |
| 00:50.36 | starseeker | yukonbob: I'm not sure. But proving properties about them and software written in their machine code would likely be more of a challenge than for some other platforms, which was ``Erik's point |
| 00:50.54 | starseeker | provably correct visualization of a surface plot? |
| 00:51.29 | starseeker | So, if we want "absolute minimal hw" but still want to solve interesting problems, where's the middle ground? |
| 00:51.35 | starseeker | that was how all that started |
| 00:51.44 | yukonbob | starseeker: well --- if you've got a good test harness, and keep primitives to a minimum, according to ``Erik you can bootstrap a Lisp environment in 7 instructions... |
| 00:52.03 | starseeker | Hehe |
| 00:52.10 | ``Erik | um, 7 primitive functions, not necessarily 7 instructions |
| 00:52.15 | starseeker | Right |
| 00:52.27 | ``Erik | and you need more to do anything beyond a minimal symbol processor :D |
| 00:52.38 | ``Erik | I'd hate to code up math routines in symbol land |
| 00:52.39 | yukonbob | right -- but that's still a small amount of code than writing a whole common lisp env in asm |
| 00:53.04 | ``Erik | be about as useful as a calculator in sed :D (and a similar construction, I'd imagine) |
| 00:53.20 | ``Erik | and I aint' never said nothin' about common lisp... |
| 00:53.32 | ``Erik | be a fair amount of work to make a provable lisp1.5 :D |
| 00:53.33 | starseeker | yukonbob: For something like Axiom, I'm assuming most of Common Lisp would be needed. So the question becomes how to get there from nothing |
| 00:53.44 | starseeker | ``Erik: Indeed! |
| 00:54.01 | starseeker | It was actually some guys on comp.lang.lisp that pointed me to Forth |
| 00:55.07 | ``Erik | that's the natural way a lithper works, yukonbob |
| 00:55.17 | starseeker | Whether it's a project that is possible or even interesting is certainly up for debate. I suspect this all goes back to my phyiscs professors in undergrad, who stressed the point we couldn't trust Mathematica to give us the right answer |
| 00:55.52 | ``Erik | recursive fully computational macros, 'top up' primitive operations, build your DSL implementation bit at a time until the problem is trivial |
| 00:56.14 | starseeker | While of course they were correct (and the primary point of needing to develop one's own mind is independent of the trustworthiness of the CAS) I became fascinated by the question "what would it take to create a CAS that COULD be trusted to give the right answer?" |
| 00:56.15 | yukonbob | ``Erik: -- and so, with 7 primitives, audited for good code (which is _still_ only an implementation detail) and sound logic, you've got a system -- and it's got _nothing_ to do with whether it's running on an atari or a cray. |
| 00:56.38 | ``Erik | what was the quote about solving every problem by adding another level of abstraction? :D |
| 00:57.05 | ``Erik | it has to be proven to run on SOMETHING, dude... whether silicon or a forth vm |
| 00:57.14 | starseeker | Correct |
| 00:57.52 | ``Erik | oh, so the ALU abstracted to microcode abstracted to the ISA abstracted to C is too much? :D |
| 00:58.06 | yukonbob | "it" is the 7 (or however many) primitives... of course it has to run -- unless "imagination" qualifies as a type of computer too... |
| 00:58.08 | ``Erik | flying electrons abstracted to gates abstracted to the alu? |
| 00:58.36 | ``Erik | dude, it's abstractions all the way down! |
| 00:58.40 | starseeker | A stack of machine -> machine language -> Forth -> Lisp -> SPAD/Aldor/Qi is probably about the minimum needed to get the proper tradeoffs in complexity and functionality. |
| 01:01.07 | starseeker | The idea of Forth would be that since it is optimized to need very few machine commands to go from nothing to Turing Complete, it would offer the minimum "proof burden" when porting from one platform to another. That of course is only in theory, since a proper lisp compiler would still need to know a lot about the machine arch. to do anything serious, but it's a start |
| 01:02.08 | starseeker | Or if the machine happens to have a good ASM (like the IBM 704) you could skip the Forth and go straight to Lisp |
| 01:02.43 | ``Erik | hum, with new developments in quantum understanding and microphysics going on, are gates even provable? O.o or just statistically ok and overengineered to compensate? |
| 01:02.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:02.56 | starseeker | ``Erik: A good point, actually |
| 01:03.04 | starseeker | ``Erik: You're quite correct |
| 01:03.04 | yukonbob | ``Erik: ++ |
| 01:03.18 | starseeker | ``Erik: The same holds true for our brains |
| 01:03.24 | yukonbob | that's what we have ECC memory for... |
| 01:03.31 | ``Erik | brains are provably wrong, due |
| 01:03.33 | ``Erik | dude |
| 01:03.47 | starseeker | ``Erik: Just most of them ;-) |
| 01:03.49 | ``Erik | ecc is another example of statistical over-engineering, not provability... |
| 01:04.13 | yukonbob | right -- the reason it's _needed_ is because of errors... |
| 01:04.17 | ``Erik | math types are weird |
| 01:04.46 | starseeker | What you can do is prove that the behavior is correct, assuming a given behavior of the hardware |
| 01:04.54 | starseeker | this is if you fully understand your software |
| 01:05.18 | ``Erik | yeah, but then you have turing-church theories, lambda calculus, ... it's all done |
| 01:05.19 | yukonbob | but obviously not the hardware, or at least can't guarantee the hardware... |
| 01:05.20 | starseeker | If you know the statistical behavior of your hardware, you can then estimate (with a LOT of work) the probability that a given calculation is incorrect |
| 01:05.28 | ``Erik | :D |
| 01:06.28 | starseeker | So if we ever understood fully how our own brains solved problems, we could also come up with a probability that a given human performed calculation was incorrect |
| 01:09.11 | starseeker | I think someone broke down the problems humans like to solve into four categories: solvable, not specifically solvable but can prove a solution exists, provably not solvable, and problems where we can't prove one way or the other whether it can be solved or not |
| 01:10.23 | starseeker | sorry guys |
| 01:11.46 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r354 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc7.1/stupidBot.vcproj: include the URLManger |
| 01:15.07 | louipc | wowzers |
| 01:15.16 | starseeker | louipc: ? |
| 01:15.21 | ``Erik | sorry, the only proofs I work with these days tend to be 10, 80, and 100 O:-) |
| 01:15.28 | louipc | lots going on here eh? |
| 01:15.39 | starseeker | No, just me going offtopic ;-) |
| 01:16.09 | louipc | ``Erik: I worked with a 140 proof, man that was caustic |
| 01:16.42 | yukonbob | starseeker: re: four categories -- didn't dick cheney go on about that wrt iraq :) |
| 01:17.01 | starseeker | yukonbob: Argh, he might have |
| 01:17.31 | yukonbob | similar, not the same -- some goofy, confusing-ish rambling... |
| 01:17.50 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:18.04 | ``Erik | 151, dude :D |
| 01:18.16 | starseeker | Politics is definitely a problem where we can't even make definite statements of whether it's solvable in theory or not ;-) |
| 01:18.26 | yukonbob | ``Erik: thats your proof? :) |
| 01:18.37 | yukonbob | Oddfellows Local 151 |
| 01:18.43 | ``Erik | I haven't worked with bacardi 151 in a bit |
| 01:18.57 | ``Erik | but it was fun :D light the shot on fire... etc |
| 01:19.07 | ``Erik | but that NEEDED a back on it |
| 01:19.18 | louipc | how fast does it burn? |
| 01:19.29 | starseeker | Jeez - you must have a Teflon shot glass. |
| 01:19.38 | ``Erik | um, I d'no, it didn't let it stay lit very long.... |
| 01:19.51 | ``Erik | didn't wanna break the shotglass and didn't wanna lose all the fuel :D |
| 01:19.56 | louipc | ah |
| 01:19.59 | yukonbob | this makes me wish for some sambuca about now... |
| 01:20.01 | louipc | fuel! yeah |
| 01:20.02 | ``Erik | I have a massively thick shotglass |
| 01:20.20 | yukonbob | sure you do, ``Erik |
| 01:20.20 | louipc | sambuca is too dang sweet |
| 01:20.23 | ``Erik | in fact, it's begging for a little bushmills right now O.o |
| 01:20.35 | ``Erik | I'll go weigh it :D |
| 01:20.58 | yukonbob | louipc: try Annisette |
| 01:21.21 | louipc | I'll try to remember that |
| 01:21.30 | ``Erik | my normal shooter is 65g, the one I like to use is 170g |
| 01:21.57 | louipc | haha YES |
| 01:22.33 | ``Erik | or, wait, sorry I'm a stupid american, lemme go measure those in uh, ounces or something |
| 01:24.03 | starseeker | Humph - the opensparc download requires registration? |
| 01:24.05 | yukonbob | ye |
| 01:24.07 | yukonbob | ww |
| 01:24.09 | yukonbob | yes |
| 01:24.12 | yukonbob | fsck |
| 01:24.15 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 01:24.20 | starseeker | lol |
| 01:25.27 | ``Erik | sun has been slow to embrace 'open' in the way we think of it |
| 01:25.33 | ``Erik | look at the old java licenses |
| 01:30.56 | yukonbob | ``Erik: use Tcl bytecode and we can integrate it w/ BRL-CAD ;) |
| 01:33.39 | ``Erik | heh, does tcl even have bytecode? |
| 01:34.16 | yukonbob | ``Erik: yup |
| 01:39.04 | yukonbob | louipc: also, Passione Nera |
| 01:41.38 | ``Erik | I'm gonna start using 'courics' as the weight measurement for everything. |
| 02:00.41 | louipc | an acre is the area of a rectangle who's length is one furlong and who's width is one chain |
| 02:39.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 02:40.06 | ``Erik | which happens to be a classic western farm plot |
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| 04:28.32 | brlcad | starseeker: BeOS was specifically designed as a "from scratch implementation" that was generally hailed as a major [technical] success at the time albeit a failure commercially (CEO was an idiot) |
| 04:32.16 | brlcad | and I learned a new word, thanks :) .. that hasn't happened unintentionally in a really long time :) |
| 06:26.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (33 files in 33 dirs): make the AdditionalIncludeDirectories paths match for Debug and Release |
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| 12:57.31 | starseeker | brlcad: I guess that's why the Haiku OS guys have been stubbornly plodding along. It does look interesting. |
| 13:13.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Changing the build order to force tclsh to build sooner. Tclsh is used early in the build to create the install tree. |
| 13:30.35 | DEFCON_ | C joke :D - http://www.ianai.net/jokes/WillNotThrow.gif |
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| 17:42.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:45.14 | brlcad | starseeker: yeah, I was really big on BeOS for years .. Haiku doesn't have the impressive foundation that Be had, but they've kept the same basic philosophy and have made a ton of great progress on reviving the effort |
| 17:45.43 | brlcad | and as open source, it's at least bound to "not fail" so long as someone's still working on it ;) |
| 17:46.14 | brlcad | they're really close to a first 1.0 release, so it'll likely be slashdotted and activity may really kick-start after then |
| 17:59.39 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 17:59.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: annotate the opengl display manager problems where the display doesn't |
| 17:59.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: automatically update any longer if the context is invalidated; mention that the |
| 17:59.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: libfb ogl interface seems horribly broken at the moment as it just crashes |
| 17:59.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: (consistently, at least on Mac OS X); and mention that the open dialog problems |
| 17:59.59 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: seem to be Mac OS X specific too as they worked under Linux (7.10.1 Mac also |
| 17:59.59 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: seemed to work fine, so something since then). |
| 18:00.48 | brlcad | ``Erik: what do you mean by fix the hacks -- add more of them, or do something about them so they're not hacks? |
| 18:01.48 | brlcad | I worked on what to do about that a while ago and didn't see any really easy fix for the problem given the way the data is being marshalled into and out of ClientData objects |
| 18:02.50 | ``Erik | add them until they get fixed? |
| 18:03.02 | ``Erik | make 'em easily greppable, anyways |
| 18:03.30 | brlcad | okay, just checking what 'fix' meant -- works for me |
| 18:03.46 | ``Erik | given that ClientData is a point type, defining the field as size_t MIGHT be workable, but that field is sometimes used as an int and sometimes as a pointer, ... |
| 18:05.12 | ``Erik | pointer, even |
| 18:05.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Initial check-in. This script will be called by Visual Studio to build the install tree. |
| 18:06.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Calling installTree.tcl instead of treeInit.sh. |
| 18:10.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: include the new scripts in the source dist |
| 18:30.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/librt/ (const.c hist.c plane.c polylib.c polyno.h snoise.c): once again, try to delete these zombie files that have again mysteriously shown up after an update |
| 19:02.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Remove command to copy clock.tcl. |
| 19:09.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: No longer need to define BRLCAD_DATA and BRLCAD_ROOT. |
| 19:10.20 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Archer now uses bwish. |
| 19:11.57 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Define WEB_BROWSER to point to IEXPLORE.EXE. |
| 19:12.08 | prasad_ | boo |
| 19:14.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: brlcadDataPath can now be set the same on Windows as it is on Unix. |
| 19:16.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (openw.tcl mged.tcl): Normalize the path when setting mged_default(html_dir). |
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| 19:59.02 | brlcad | yo prasad_ |
| 20:03.12 | prasad_ | yo yo |
| 20:10.26 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copying many more files to the install tree. |
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| 20:53.59 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: Put things back. |
| 21:36.26 | ``Erik | O.O holy crap, it worked |
| 21:38.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: html is no longer under doc on Windows. |
| 21:39.53 | brlcad | a dirt worked? |
| 21:43.00 | ``Erik | heh, yeah |
| 21:43.05 | ``Erik | the gtk snake thingy |
| 21:43.39 | ``Erik | and, uh, ain't nothin' worth worrying about for public consumption other than perhaps terminology, I think |
| 21:45.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Looks like things accidently got wacked. |
| 21:53.14 | ``Erik | heh, I'd forgotten about 'diva' |
| 21:55.43 | ``Erik | hum, forgot some stuff last night, wonder if I stopped in the middle of it or something |
| 21:56.10 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libcommon/unpack.c librender/plane.c librender/spall.c): update the tie_init() calls with the new parm |
| 21:59.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in: there is no ITK_VERSION, use ITCL_VERSION |
| 22:06.39 | prasad_ | http://www.kloonigames.com/blog/ |
| 22:16.52 | Z80-Boy | How do I do a regular tetrahedron? |
| 22:17.00 | Z80-Boy | With an arbn, n=4? |
| 22:23.04 | brlcad | you could do that, but better would be to create an arb4 |
| 22:23.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: sync options with configure: add dtrace, remove automatic |
| 22:23.56 | brlcad | (subtle, but "arbn" are not the same as "arb#" objects) |
| 22:30.10 | ``Erik | woops, that sounded like a steam whistle, time to go hom |
| 22:58.42 | minute | http://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=5 |
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| 00:41.29 | brlcad | minute: woo hoo! |
| 00:41.33 | brlcad | that's awesome |
| 00:41.58 | brlcad | I gather the template isn't live yet |
| 00:42.15 | brlcad | either way, sounds like great progress! |
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| 08:09.14 | weebee | Hi, using XChat I finally managed to log on... |
| 08:09.33 | weebee | Do i need to register my nick names? |
| 08:20.25 | yukonbob | weebee: if you're not using a registered nick, I think you can't send txt in private chats. |
| 08:22.27 | weebee | ok. I assume registering is as simple as sending a message to the nick server? : ''msg nickserv register <passwd>"' |
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| 08:24.49 | weebee | (few days ago I logged in as Wim, this does not work anymore; I must be very annoying to see my attempts to log on) |
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| 10:03.22 | weebee | test |
| 10:12.19 | Axman6 | 'lo all |
| 10:14.41 | Axman6 | i'm getting weird compile errors: In file included from if_wgl.c:63: |
| 10:14.41 | Axman6 | /usr/include/tk.h:72:3: error: #error Tk 8.4 must be compiled with tcl.h from Tcl 8.4 |
| 10:15.29 | Axman6 | i'm on OS X 10.5, and my configure command loks like this: ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11 --enable-optimized --enable-64bit-build LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11/lib" CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/X11/include" CFLAGS="-m64 -mtune=nocona -arch x86_64 -lGL -lX11 -dylib_file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib" |
| 10:15.53 | Axman6 | that's what was required to get it to configure ok, but i guess not enough to build :\ |
| 10:18.24 | Axman6 | might try without the 64-bit stuff first actually |
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| 15:22.36 | brlcad | Axman6: using system tcl and tk on mac os x presently configures correctly, but (obviously) doesn't compile correctly -- have to let it build brl-cad's |
| 15:23.07 | brlcad | you can use the --enable-all flag and it should work |
| 15:23.41 | Axman6 | yeah i cleaned up my configure flags a lot, found a leopard bug apparently. circular referencing with a few libs |
| 15:24.19 | brlcad | hm, what's -dylib_file? |
| 15:25.00 | brlcad | tells it to only allow dylib linkage or something? |
| 15:25.02 | Axman6 | oh also, make distclean deletes the configure script. that should probably changed i think |
| 15:26.06 | Axman6 | it was something that was suggested on apple's dev site to get projects that won't compile in leopard any more. |
| 15:28.24 | brlcad | ah, that entire libGL bit that follows is related to it, used to redirect from one dylib to another |
| 15:28.40 | brlcad | though you're redirecting to the exact same file.. :) |
| 15:28.46 | brlcad | shouldn't need that at all |
| 15:29.49 | brlcad | or -lGL or -lX11 .. if you have to manually add them, something else is wrong |
| 15:33.43 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: why is the redrawing of the wireframe so slow? |
| 15:34.05 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I am modelling a terminal block (terminal strip) and it's starting to be very slow |
| 15:39.54 | Axman6 | brlcad: well --enable-all doesn't give me OpenGL support sadly |
| 15:41.30 | Axman6 | how do i specify where my OpenGL libraries are? |
| 15:46.39 | Axman6 | i've tried using "./configure --enable-all --with-ogl=/usr/X11" because all the required libs and headers appear to be in there, but no dice |
| 15:58.36 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: really hard to say without knowing a lot more about what's going on, how many segments, what display types, machine details, etc |
| 15:59.46 | brlcad | Axman6: OpenGL support doesn't provide what you think it provides in BRL-CAD -- the X11 interface is fully equivalent |
| 16:00.56 | Axman6 | yeah i didn't think it would do things like give me interactive models in real time or anything... but this is a brand new MacBook Pro, and it has an amazing gpu, so it could help ;) |
| 16:01.42 | brlcad | that said, if you can post up your config.log, I can take a look at why it's failing to detect |
| 16:01.46 | Axman6 | what does it actually do by the way? |
| 16:01.57 | Axman6 | ok, cheers |
| 16:02.34 | brlcad | brl-cad has a concept of framebuffers and display managers, some of them being ogl, wgl, x11, and a few others |
| 16:03.04 | brlcad | they're all pretty much functionally equivalent for the most part, it just defines the protocol that it's speaking |
| 16:03.15 | brlcad | you will get interactive models in real-time with any/all of them |
| 16:03.30 | brlcad | you just won't get shaded displays with any of them outside of ray-tracing the model |
| 16:04.35 | brlcad | so turning on the ogl interface on your macbook basically just tells it to make ogl_() calls instead of the equivalent (but faster) direct X11 calls for drawing a wireframe representation |
| 16:05.18 | Axman6 | ok, great. thanks for clearing that up for me |
| 16:05.20 | brlcad | did you try the binary installer for Mac, that isn't far off feature-wise from the latest sources |
| 16:05.25 | brlcad | np |
| 16:06.02 | brlcad | where "latest sources" means latest cvs sources, it's equivalent to the 7.10.4 source tarball |
| 16:10.33 | Axman6 | brlcad: could i maybe email you the config.log? seems to be too big for most paste sites |
| 16:12.38 | Axman6 | i might have found it anyway: |
| 16:12.51 | Axman6 | configure:42679: checking for OpenGL functionality |
| 16:12.52 | Axman6 | configure:42716: gcc -o conftest -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11/include -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g conftest.c >&5 |
| 16:13.21 | Axman6 | would not having a -L/usr/X11/lib have anything to do with it? |
| 16:17.33 | brlcad | yeah, possibly |
| 16:17.51 | brlcad | could set the LDFLAGS for it |
| 16:18.09 | brlcad | but seriously, it's not going to get you *anything* over the X11 interface that it apparently did detect :) |
| 16:18.22 | Axman6 | yeah, i'm not using it |
| 16:18.43 | brlcad | I'll have to get my hands on 10.5 to probably patch that |
| 16:18.59 | brlcad | but I suspect the X11 detection macros aren't quite right yet on 10.5 |
| 16:19.17 | brlcad | since apple moved from X11R6 to X11 |
| 16:21.00 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 16:21.31 | Axman6 | feels like a step backwrds really. i hope they relese some updates to it soonish |
| 16:22.20 | Axman6 | +1* |
| 16:22.26 | Axman6 | +a* even |
| 16:22.52 | Axman6 | so are you the main dev brlcad? |
| 16:25.18 | Axman6 | bleh, this thing really heats up when compiling things |
| 16:36.14 | Axman6 | bleh, yeah BRL-CAD failed compilation |
| 16:40.52 | Axman6 | http://pastie.caboo.se/123765 |
| 16:40.59 | brlcad | Axman6: yeah, main dev |
| 16:41.12 | Axman6 | well well done :) |
| 16:41.24 | brlcad | not when the build fails :) |
| 16:41.44 | brlcad | ooh, i've seen that error |
| 16:41.48 | Axman6 | i haven't played with BRL-CAD for a few years, but i remember it being lots of fun really |
| 16:42.14 | brlcad | it's 10.5 specific, a problem in CoreFoundation.. hmm, now to remember what the fix was.. |
| 16:42.15 | Axman6 | none of the problems i've been having seem to be your fault, so i'm not blaming you ;) |
| 16:45.36 | brlcad | is there actually a /usr/X11/lib/libPng.dylib ? |
| 16:46.49 | Axman6 | there's a /usr/X11/lib/libpng.dylib, case shouldn't count right? |
| 16:47.37 | brlcad | right |
| 16:50.03 | brlcad | so my vague recollection of this problem is that Tcl links against CoreFoundation which includes the ApplicationServices framwork, which embeds an ImageIO framework .. which uses a libPng library that it doesn't rpath correctly |
| 16:52.50 | brlcad | and the problem being then that an app that is already linked against libpng that uses Tcl (which btclsh app being run in this case is like that), then runs into a dynamic loader problem |
| 16:53.33 | brlcad | hmm hmm hmm.. |
| 16:53.58 | brlcad | can you do a locate libPng ? |
| 16:54.14 | brlcad | if that returns nothing, then "locate libpng" |
| 16:54.34 | Axman6 | can i paste 5 lines? |
| 16:54.38 | brlcad | go for it |
| 16:54.47 | brlcad | usually over 5 is the pain threshold ;) |
| 16:55.25 | Axman6 | /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib |
| 16:55.28 | Axman6 | /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib |
| 16:55.32 | Axman6 | /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib |
| 16:55.52 | Axman6 | um, right, yeah, hang on |
| 16:55.59 | Axman6 | /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib |
| 16:56.02 | Axman6 | /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib |
| 16:56.05 | Axman6 | /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib |
| 16:56.56 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ | |
| 16:57.02 | Axman6 | bah, the fact that it's trying to use a /command doesn't anoy me, it's that only two of the 5 lines are being interpreted as commands :( |
| 16:58.35 | Axman6 | actually, that's ok. it was picking stuff up from /Previous\ Systems/... which isn't relevent anyway |
| 17:03.02 | Axman6 | anyway, don't suppose you've found a fix yet have you? |
| 17:03.28 | Axman6 | i'm about to go to sleep, so if you do, just hilight me and i'll get it in the morning |
| 17:04.45 | curious | 'due to pressure from huge russian fan base , we were forced to change all filenames to unicode and use cyrylic for headers' |
| 17:05.52 | brlcad | okay, so there's what it needs |
| 17:06.04 | brlcad | but it's pulling the one in /usr/X11/lib due to ordering decls |
| 17:06.17 | brlcad | that's actually a case where the -dylib_file might come in handy |
| 17:07.32 | brlcad | Axman6: yeah, I think there are a couple things that can be tried -- it's pulling the one in /usr/X11/lib due to ordering decls instead of the embedded one |
| 17:08.29 | Axman6 | would... renaming /usr/X11 one help maybe? just temporarily |
| 17:10.21 | Axman6 | nope |
| 17:12.10 | Axman6 | i'm guessing it should be linking against /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib right? |
| 17:22.06 | Axman6 | ok, i'm going to sleep. good night, and thanks for the help. if you think of anything, hilight me and i'll see it in the morning :) |
| 17:24.10 | brlcad | okay, i'll see if I can craft up a specific line to try |
| 17:24.20 | brlcad | multitasking a bit too heavy at the moment to keep up :) |
| 18:09.35 | ``Erik | oh ffs, wtff |
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| 22:43.12 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/regtab.cpp: |
| 22:43.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: if there's a region entry missing from the material file, just fake an entry for |
| 22:43.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: it instead of aborting. this lets processing continue for the rest of the |
| 22:43.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: regions that follow at least, and placeholds the unknown region as such. |
| 23:32.29 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.96.127) | |
| 23:32.33 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged tab-completion doesn't work if the object names have spaces |
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| 10:15.48 | Axman6 | hey brlcad, i was wondering if you'd found a fix for my circular dependancy problem? |
| 10:22.14 | Axman6 | i'll be back, testing things and need to reboot |
| 10:23.10 | Z80-Boy | I'll be back... --Arnold Schwarzenegger |
| 10:26.41 | Axman6 | heh :) |
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| 14:24.36 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: does brlcad also calculate polarization, Brewster angle etc.? |
| 15:19.36 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/libtcl/libtcl.vcproj: Added a call to build the missing include/conf files. |
| 17:02.07 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-128.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 17:02.50 | Axman6 | brlcad: you around? |
| 18:27.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: No longer need to create the missing include/conf files. Added code to create tclIndex files. Added the shareDir variable to simplify things a bit. |
| 18:30.42 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mods for getting the installTree script to create tclIndex files. |
| 18:37.01 | brlcad | Axman6: yeah, sorry .. was busy coding ;) |
| 18:37.10 | Axman6 | heh :) |
| 18:37.15 | Axman6 | so i see |
| 18:37.35 | brlcad | that's bob, different dev :) |
| 18:37.40 | brlcad | not committed my stuff yet |
| 18:37.42 | Axman6 | i'm lucky i'm still awake at 5:30AM then i guess :P |
| 18:37.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ami.tcl: Created the make_tclIndex proc. |
| 18:37.49 | brlcad | wow |
| 18:37.55 | Axman6 | ah right, didn't check the dev |
| 18:38.15 | Axman6 | yeah, woke up at 3:30 yesterday, so hard to sleep |
| 18:38.25 | Axman6 | the sun's already up -_- |
| 18:38.33 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:39.12 | brlcad | so one thing to try, just to see if it helps with the problem is to move the libpng out of the way that is in /usr/X11/lib |
| 18:39.35 | brlcad | if that works, then it can be put back and can work on coercing the search path ordering |
| 18:39.51 | Axman6 | YEAH OK |
| 18:40.15 | Axman6 | whoops |
| 18:43.23 | Axman6 | http://pastie.textmate.org/124117 |
| 18:44.35 | brlcad | hmm |
| 18:46.58 | brlcad | here's an idea, might be enough to just avoid the whole problem by disabling tcl's core foundation interface |
| 18:47.13 | brlcad | try adding --disable-corefoundation to configure |
| 18:47.50 | brlcad | pastebin the entire configure output if it'll fit |
| 18:47.50 | Axman6 | ok |
| 18:54.49 | Axman6 | http://pastie.textmate.org/124120 |
| 18:54.59 | Axman6 | hopefully |
| 18:55.25 | Axman6 | yeah that got it all |
| 19:00.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:01.06 | Axman6 | hmm, running make 0j2 really does make a difference |
| 19:01.18 | Axman6 | -j2* |
| 19:01.18 | brlcad | fwiw, --with-all doesn't do anything |
| 19:01.33 | Axman6 | hmm, maybe that was something else |
| 19:01.58 | Axman6 | it was suggsted to me somewhere. anyway |
| 19:02.02 | brlcad | there is a --enable-all option |
| 19:02.15 | Axman6 | probably bzflag heh |
| 19:02.18 | brlcad | but your results are fine, dont' really need it |
| 19:02.38 | brlcad | bz doesn't have a --with-all either ;) |
| 19:03.26 | brlcad | our configure script actually is a decent benchmark of overall I/O performance :) |
| 19:03.27 | Axman6 | bzflag the game? |
| 19:03.30 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:03.40 | Axman6 | hmm, wonder what it was then... |
| 19:03.45 | Axman6 | oh well, not important ; |
| 19:04.05 | Axman6 | haha, awesome |
| 19:04.28 | Axman6 | brl-cad and bzflag were the two things i was trying to get compiled yesterday :P |
| 19:04.35 | brlcad | cad and bz are the two I spend most of my time on :) |
| 19:05.36 | brlcad | as witnessed by the ohloh metrics .. :) |
| 19:05.56 | Axman6 | well while i'm at it, when i compiled bzflag, it would die after about a minute. but i believe thT's an SDL problem |
| 19:06.02 | brlcad | so have you tried the build with the --disable-corefoundation flag? |
| 19:06.16 | Axman6 | yeah, it's building now |
| 19:06.18 | brlcad | how'd you build sdl? |
| 19:06.27 | Axman6 | using macports |
| 19:06.32 | brlcad | what version? |
| 19:06.41 | Axman6 | 1.2.12? that sound right? |
| 19:06.45 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:06.50 | brlcad | that's nfg :) |
| 19:06.54 | Axman6 | apparently 1.2.11 works fine |
| 19:06.56 | brlcad | needs to be .11 |
| 19:07.01 | Axman6 | heh, yeah |
| 19:07.08 | brlcad | or you have to update the SDLmain.m in BZ |
| 19:07.13 | brlcad | to the new one for .12 |
| 19:09.00 | Axman6 | don't happen to know what needs changing off the top of your head do you? |
| 19:10.46 | Axman6 | :P |
| 19:10.58 | Axman6 | i should check it out of svn and build it |
| 19:11.31 | brlcad | we just posted a new release |
| 19:11.42 | brlcad | svn head is the next (incompatible) dev version |
| 19:11.44 | Axman6 | .10 one? |
| 19:11.48 | brlcad | yeah |
| 19:11.50 | brlcad | that's the latest |
| 19:11.59 | Axman6 | yeah that didn't build for me |
| 19:12.09 | Axman6 | well it did, but had the sdl problem |
| 19:12.42 | brlcad | yeah, easiest solution is to just install the .11 SDL framework into /Library/Frameworks and run xcodebuild |
| 19:14.25 | brlcad | otherwise, you have to replace the SDLmain files in src/platform/MacOS (it's usually bundled in a dev download from SDL folks) |
| 19:14.58 | Axman6 | righto |
| 19:15.14 | Axman6 | well brl-cad first i think, bzflag later ;) |
| 19:15.27 | Axman6 | i'll probably find brl-cad more fun anyway |
| 19:16.15 | Axman6 | downloaded someone's unofficial intel build of bz... died instantly every time :( |
| 19:17.24 | Axman6 | "-DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE" what's that do exactly? |
| 19:18.17 | Axman6 | well really, what do the -D flags to gcc do? |
| 19:21.27 | Axman6 | this gets the fans giong quite effectively :| |
| 19:26.49 | brlcad | -D flags set preprocessor defines |
| 19:29.39 | Axman6 | bleh, i never got that far into my C++ book ;) |
| 19:29.50 | brlcad | which are generally symbols that can modify compilation behavior, turn things on/off but are completely driven by the code |
| 19:30.29 | Axman6 | bleh, same error again |
| 19:30.30 | brlcad | -DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE is as if you added "#define PNG_NO_MMX_CODE 1" to the top of every file being compiled |
| 19:31.50 | brlcad | exact same error? |
| 19:32.02 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 19:32.08 | Axman6 | afaict |
| 19:33.26 | Axman6 | http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6xkfj3p&s=1 <-- eases compilation pain |
| 19:34.17 | brlcad | your cat? :) |
| 19:34.28 | brlcad | or paris' top falling off |
| 19:35.37 | Axman6 | heh, yeah my cat |
| 19:37.28 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: first piece of optic which was prototyped using BRL-CAD |
| 19:37.59 | brlcad | for what it's worth, it'd be willing to interactively debug this problem over ssh if you're willing to set up a temp account -- otherwise, next thing is to edit the top-level configure.ac file and comment out the corefoundation block |
| 19:38.46 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: to answer your question, there's no polarization in liboptical -- maybe in libmultispectral, but I don't believe so |
| 19:38.47 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/prismascope.g render in rear view |
| 19:39.15 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: it's a telescope which magnifies 4 times and consists only from 4 prisms, no curved optical interfaces ;-) |
| 19:40.33 | Axman6 | brlcad: yeah i would let you ssh in, but nat would make it a problem. which is a pitty, because leopard comes with a nice temp account feature. erases all files when you log out |
| 19:41.23 | brlcad | nat isn't forwarding port 22? |
| 19:41.33 | Axman6 | well not to this machine |
| 19:41.48 | brlcad | could run ssh manually on another port being forwarded for single session |
| 19:41.51 | Axman6 | to the G5 |
| 19:42.58 | brlcad | if you want to keep plugging away at it, edit configure.ac and look for the block that starts with this line: |
| 19:43.01 | brlcad | AC_MSG_CHECKING([whether -framework CoreFoundation is available]) |
| 19:43.04 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: ehm forgot the name of the toplevel to render... "scene" |
| 19:43.07 | Axman6 | i'll try the commenting out of core foundation stuff first. |
| 19:43.17 | brlcad | and comment it all out (prefix each line with #) |
| 19:43.33 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: already seen it :) |
| 19:44.07 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/zoom.png |
| 19:44.45 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you know how it works? |
| 19:44.46 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: how's that work? |
| 19:44.53 | Axman6 | heh |
| 19:45.51 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: I just phoned God and asked him if he could make prism magnify from now |
| 19:46.04 | Z80-Boy | because prisms are easier to make than lenses |
| 19:46.12 | Axman6 | ah right, yeah he's good like that sometimes |
| 19:46.29 | louipc-bot | especially big lenses eh? |
| 19:46.46 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: if you draw the prism picture from the schoolbook you can see the beam inside the prism is squished |
| 19:47.00 | Z80-Boy | so if you cut the prism in half into a smaller prism the squished beam comes out |
| 19:47.13 | Z80-Boy | and there is some obscure theorem meaning that if you squish the beam it magnifies |
| 19:47.23 | Axman6 | heh |
| 19:47.26 | Z80-Boy | It also does a spectra decomposition so you need to use a pair to cancel that out |
| 19:47.43 | Z80-Boy | and another pair of prisms to do the magnification in the other dimension because the picture is 2D |
| 19:47.50 | Z80-Boy | so with 4 prisms you can have a telescope |
| 19:47.54 | louipc-bot | o.O |
| 19:47.57 | Axman6 | i'll have to check your file when i get brl-cad compiled ; |
| 19:48.09 | Z80-Boy | No need for complicated grinding of lenses - just rub two pieces of glass against each other with some grit |
| 19:48.20 | Z80-Boy | or make like aquarium from window pane float glass ;-) |
| 19:48.28 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes, I know how prisms work.. and I saw how you oriented them in the model -- pretty creative really |
| 19:49.03 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I actually saw the pair as an anamorphotic pair to fix fabry perror laser output beam shape |
| 19:49.11 | Z80-Boy | perrot |
| 19:49.27 | louipc-bot | actually don't the most powerful telescopes use curved mirrors? |
| 19:49.35 | Z80-Boy | yes |
| 19:49.49 | Z80-Boy | but you need exact parabolic shape |
| 19:49.53 | Axman6 | cassigrain telescopes |
| 19:49.56 | Z80-Boy | that's more complicated than an exact flat shape |
| 19:50.04 | louipc-bot | yeah |
| 19:50.07 | Axman6 | as demonstrated by the hubble |
| 19:50.17 | Z80-Boy | but if you tilt my model the picture gets distorted |
| 19:50.19 | Axman6 | which they screwed up originally |
| 19:50.24 | Z80-Boy | it seems to work only for narrow field of view |
| 19:50.29 | Z80-Boy | But for laser beams it's great |
| 19:50.36 | louipc-bot | :D |
| 19:50.48 | Z80-Boy | or for burning stuff with the sun... |
| 19:50.53 | Z80-Boy | that's also narrow field of view |
| 19:50.58 | Z80-Boy | but a fresnel lens is lighter |
| 19:51.15 | brlcad | you can create rather exact parabolic shapes using the epa if you wanted to, but have fun grinding it ;) |
| 19:51.16 | Z80-Boy | It just demonstrates the people in the middle ages were stupid, they could make themselves crude telescopes from grinded gems |
| 19:51.52 | Z80-Boy | they didn't need a curved surface for that |
| 19:53.31 | Z80-Boy | Or they could stick 4 prisms in front of the hubble to double the input aperture for free |
| 19:53.59 | Z80-Boy | just get some window panes into the sky and then fill with water |
| 19:54.31 | Axman6 | but that would severly reduce the amount of light getting through to the sensors |
| 19:54.32 | Z80-Boy | this way they could build an integralactic megagigatelescope to concentrate significant amount of solar power and then they could zap whole planets in the sky |
| 19:54.33 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/prisms.png |
| 19:55.02 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: they can coat with anti reflex |
| 19:55.11 | Axman6 | hdh |
| 19:55.15 | Axman6 | heh* |
| 19:55.59 | Axman6 | well water would be very bad. the reason they have the hubble... in space.. is because water absorbs infrared light |
| 19:56.16 | Z80-Boy | aha |
| 19:56.28 | Axman6 | brlcad: so you do your dev work on a mac? |
| 19:56.38 | brlcad | most of the time |
| 19:56.43 | brlcad | depends what I"m doing |
| 19:57.17 | Axman6 | argh! same error again! |
| 19:57.21 | brlcad | it's one of the easiest platforms for general work, less fuss, great set of dev tools (profiler, memory tests, etc) |
| 19:57.48 | brlcad | Axman6: did you clean out the previous build? |
| 19:57.52 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 19:57.59 | brlcad | huh |
| 19:58.10 | Axman6 | but you can neverr be sure, so i'll trash it and start again |
| 19:58.10 | brlcad | otool -L src/bwish/.libs/btclsh |
| 19:58.49 | brlcad | and otool -L src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl.dylib |
| 19:59.15 | brlcad | needed both the section commented out and the --disable-corefoundation flag |
| 19:59.32 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: On Mac, not only the background should be white, but the rpps should also have rounded corners! |
| 19:59.53 | Axman6 | http://pastie.textmate.org/124129 |
| 20:00.22 | Axman6 | and otool: can't open file: src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl.dylib (No such file or directory) |
| 20:01.06 | brlcad | ooh, Carbon |
| 20:02.09 | Axman6 | nawww, cat's asleep and twitching on me |
| 20:04.14 | Axman6 | anyway. is carbon necessary for this? |
| 20:04.48 | brlcad | no, it's not |
| 20:05.16 | brlcad | looking for the call to leave out |
| 20:05.36 | Axman6 | 'dnl check whether the Carbon framework is available (used for X11 focus)' block? |
| 20:06.57 | brlcad | yeah, the next block |
| 20:07.20 | brlcad | and then it should fail somewhere in the code where it's using that (which is what I'm hunting for) |
| 20:08.16 | Axman6 | AC_CHECK_HEADERS( \ Carbon/Carbon.h \ |
| 20:08.37 | Axman6 | comment that out? (the carbon bit) |
| 20:08.41 | brlcad | yeah |
| 20:08.46 | brlcad | that was it |
| 20:08.57 | brlcad | that triggers the code in libdm |
| 20:09.18 | brlcad | you'll remove that line, can't just prefix it |
| 20:09.31 | Axman6 | yeah, realised that |
| 20:10.16 | Axman6 | wow, this bindi irwin show is odd |
| 20:14.59 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) | |
| 20:15.59 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
| 20:16.12 | Axman6 | 'lo again |
| 20:21.54 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (lgt/error.c lgt/prnt.c libfb/fb_log.c): mass simplification since we can assume stdarg is available, it's c89. remove the alternatives. |
| 20:22.02 | Axman6 | urgh, same error :| |
| 20:22.56 | brlcad | otool shows what now? |
| 20:23.31 | brlcad | because we have to get rid of all of them before it goes away |
| 20:24.00 | brlcad | to btclsh and libtcl -- that last edit should have removed from btclsh, but there might still be one on libtcl |
| 20:24.01 | Axman6 | exact same thing |
| 20:24.38 | Axman6 | i'll try trashing it, and going again from there |
| 20:25.02 | brlcad | cd src/bwish && make noprod && make LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool" |
| 20:25.15 | brlcad | pastebin the output of that please |
| 20:25.40 | Axman6 | make: *** No rule to make target `noprod'. Stop. |
| 20:26.02 | Axman6 | typo? |
| 20:26.09 | brlcad | er, are you building out of tree or something? |
| 20:26.25 | Axman6 | wait, probably need to configure first ;) |
| 20:26.40 | brlcad | you just built, no? |
| 20:26.56 | brlcad | you should only need to configure again if you did a distclean |
| 20:27.10 | brlcad | or if you manually deleted the Makefile |
| 20:27.16 | Axman6 | yeah, but i trashed it. haven't empried trash though |
| 20:28.16 | Axman6 | http://pastie.textmate.org/124134 |
| 20:29.13 | brlcad | two problems there |
| 20:29.28 | brlcad | it shouldn't have all those -framework CoreFoundation |
| 20:29.38 | brlcad | OOOooh.. sorry |
| 20:29.46 | brlcad | you have to run ./autogen.sh after editing configure.ac |
| 20:30.06 | brlcad | you're running an out-of-date configure |
| 20:31.51 | Axman6 | ahh |
| 20:33.16 | Axman6 | 'sudo ln -s /opt/local/bin/glibtoolize /opt/local/bin/libtoolize' um, ok, don't see how that's good advice |
| 20:33.29 | Axman6 | oh wait, missed the g |
| 20:36.01 | Axman6 | ok, compiling |
| 20:48.06 | Axman6 | well, it's been going a good long time, looking food :) |
| 20:49.59 | Axman6 | why does brl-cad install in /usr btw? why not /usr/local? |
| 20:52.18 | Axman6 | argh! same error! |
| 20:52.38 | Axman6 | but... on a different part of the colpile |
| 20:53.12 | Axman6 | make[2]: *** [pkgIndex.tcl] Trace/BPT trap |
| 20:53.39 | Axman6 | which i don't think was the same place |
| 20:57.05 | Axman6 | wait, not the same error |
| 20:57.21 | Axman6 | oh, no it is :( |
| 21:03.31 | Axman6 | brlcad: anything i should show you? |
| 21:07.32 | Axman6 | heh :) |
| 21:07.37 | Axman6 | i should get some breakfast |
| 21:07.47 | brlcad | Axman6: still focusing on the link line for btclsh and the otool libs |
| 21:08.51 | Axman6 | http://pastie.textmate.org/124147 |
| 21:08.59 | brlcad | if it still lists CoreFoundation during cd src/bwish && make noprod && make LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool" |
| 21:09.05 | Axman6 | no error there, the link one |
| 21:09.26 | brlcad | okay, that's better |
| 21:09.36 | brlcad | otool -L .libs/btclsh |
| 21:10.26 | Axman6 | http://pastie.textmate.org/124148 |
| 21:11.04 | brlcad | much better |
| 21:11.23 | brlcad | if you run ./btclsh I presume it gives the dyld error? |
| 21:12.08 | Axman6 | so is it yep |
| 21:12.23 | Axman6 | yep even |
| 21:12.43 | Axman6 | i was going to say so is it the dyld: Symbol not found: __cg_png_create_info_struct |
| 21:12.50 | Axman6 | bit that needs fixing? |
| 21:14.15 | brlcad | yeah, cd ../.. && otool -L src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl8.5.dylib |
| 21:14.56 | Axman6 | three lines, want them here? |
| 21:15.02 | brlcad | sure |
| 21:15.25 | Axman6 | /usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.dylib (compatibility version 8.5.0, current version 8.5.0) |
| 21:15.29 | Axman6 | /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) |
| 21:15.31 | Axman6 | /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 111.0.0) |
| 21:15.53 | brlcad | that's it? |
| 21:16.11 | Axman6 | yeah :\ |
| 21:16.14 | brlcad | well damnits |
| 21:16.57 | Axman6 | indeed, it's not making much sense now |
| 21:18.09 | brlcad | can you run: src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh ? |
| 21:18.51 | Axman6 | no |
| 21:19.00 | Axman6 | dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.dylib Referenced from: /Users/Axman/compiled-projects/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh Reason: image not found |
| 21:19.01 | brlcad | same cg error? |
| 21:19.03 | Axman6 | Trace/BPT trap |
| 21:19.11 | brlcad | ah |
| 21:19.18 | brlcad | cd src/other && make install |
| 21:20.53 | Axman6 | ok i can run tclsh now |
| 21:24.43 | brlcad | well that's good .. |
| 21:25.07 | brlcad | could change the script to use tclsh instead, but btclsh is not really much different .. |
| 21:25.09 | Axman6 | same compile error though |
| 21:25.23 | brlcad | right, that compile error is it actually trying to run btclsh |
| 21:25.41 | Axman6 | edit the makefile? |
| 21:26.37 | brlcad | no |
| 21:26.40 | brlcad | at least not yet.. |
| 21:29.17 | Axman6 | s/$(top_builddir)\/src\/bwish\/btclsh/tclsh ? |
| 21:29.30 | Axman6 | (textmate style though) |
| 21:30.04 | brlcad | sure, you can try that -- have to edit all the Makefiles in src/tclscripts |
| 21:30.23 | Axman6 | yeah, textmate makes that easy |
| 21:30.31 | brlcad | and have to edit ami.tcl to have a "package require Itcl" in it |
| 21:31.20 | brlcad | but if btclsh won't run, then mged won't either very likely as they have nearly the same dependencies |
| 21:32.22 | Axman6 | well, passed the usual error stage |
| 21:34.38 | brlcad | alas all of this is just attempting to work around the problem instead of fixing/diagnosing the actual problem in the ImageIO framework |
| 21:35.07 | Axman6 | Elapsed compilation time: |
| 21:35.07 | Axman6 | 16 hours, 3 minutes, 33 seconds |
| 21:35.08 | Axman6 | haha |
| 21:35.26 | brlcad | :) |
| 21:35.42 | Axman6 | is there a make check or make install option? |
| 21:35.48 | Axman6 | uh, make test |
| 21:37.03 | Axman6 | yeah, mged dies |
| 21:37.19 | brlcad | run make install |
| 21:37.34 | brlcad | maybe different dyld behavior after installed |
| 21:37.43 | brlcad | since we do at least embed the right rpaths for what we use |
| 21:37.51 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 21:39.02 | Axman6 | well, at least this is all working towards possible leopard compatability |
| 21:40.00 | Axman6 | hey does launchd handling X11 launching affect you at all with brlcad? |
| 21:40.24 | Axman6 | and installed now. run make test? |
| 21:41.10 | brlcad | no, run "benchmark" in some directory where it's okay to output a lot of files |
| 21:41.34 | brlcad | or "/usr/brlcad/bin/benchmark" if you haven't added /usr/brlcad/bin to your path |
| 21:42.38 | brlcad | it'll take about 10 minutes and evaluate your system's performance |
| 21:42.46 | Axman6 | seems to be working well |
| 21:43.10 | brlcad | that's good, part to be expected since it's not gui-driven |
| 21:43.23 | brlcad | next would be to run mged -c |
| 21:47.37 | Axman6 | do you use threading a lot for brl-cad? |
| 21:47.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (35 files in 10 dirs): more flawfinder level 4 quellage, mostly str*() buffer boundary limits. |
| 21:49.10 | Axman6 | Total testing time elapsed: 6 minutes, 30 seconds |
| 21:49.51 | brlcad | the ray-tracer is extensively multithreaded and designed for parallel computation |
| 21:50.00 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (fftc.c ifftc.c): don't use bu_exit() so we can still avoid the libbu dependency |
| 21:50.00 | Axman6 | excellent |
| 21:50.09 | brlcad | will use however many cpus you have available by default |
| 21:51.04 | Axman6 | well, mged -c seems to run ok... |
| 21:52.26 | Axman6 | anything i can do to test it a bit more? |
| 21:52.48 | brlcad | when mged runs, run the "gui" command |
| 21:54.08 | Axman6 | X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) \ Major opcode of failed request: 70 (X_PolyFillRectangle) \ Serial number of failed request: 1738 \ Current serial number in output stream: 1782 |
| 21:54.39 | brlcad | is X11 running? |
| 21:57.01 | Axman6 | it is, though that doesn't matter in leopard. launchd launches it on demand |
| 21:57.21 | brlcad | I know, just checking |
| 21:58.10 | brlcad | that's actually pretty stumping now |
| 21:58.24 | Axman6 | woah, running without -c gives a pretty funky error |
| 21:58.32 | brlcad | http://www.nabble.com/X11-trouble-on-OSX-10.5-t4783777.html |
| 21:58.39 | brlcad | that's prety much the same problem |
| 21:59.38 | Axman6 | The process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality safely. You MUST exec(). |
| 21:59.41 | Axman6 | Break on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug. |
| 22:00.01 | Axman6 | about 30 times |
| 22:01.39 | brlcad | that one i've heard about |
| 22:01.46 | brlcad | add the -f option to mged |
| 22:02.13 | brlcad | looks like Tcl still ended up using corefoundation even though you added --disable-corefoundation |
| 22:02.18 | Axman6 | same X error as before |
| 22:02.41 | brlcad | well, so good news and bad news :) |
| 22:03.04 | brlcad | you do have mged at your disposal but only in console mode |
| 22:03.18 | Axman6 | heh, dang |
| 22:03.37 | brlcad | which is fully functional, other than not showing you the gui |
| 22:04.06 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 22:04.27 | Axman6 | yeah i often found it easier to use the cli for a lot of things than to use the gui |
| 22:05.07 | Axman6 | but it's been a long time, and i don't remember anything about how to use brl-cad :\ |
| 22:07.59 | brlcad | the tutorials on the website do work for console mode too, just have to use the mged quick reference to know/call the command(s) that relate to gui actions |
| 22:08.23 | brlcad | 2/3rds the tutorials are on the command console anyways |
| 22:08.43 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 22:08.56 | brlcad | I'm not sure there's much more I can do without getting my hands on 10.5 so I can interactively debug the X calls |
| 22:09.18 | Axman6 | i could work on getting you ssh access to this machine if you like |
| 22:11.10 | brlcad | that'll help get the default compile working, but the X issue might still persist -- I'll give it a try, though |
| 22:12.47 | Axman6 | ok. would tomorrow be better for you? give you a break, and time to think maybe. i'll be going out kind of soon |
| 22:15.33 | Axman6 | actually, that might give you a good chance to work on it. i could log the guess account in, or create a temporary one (guest might not have ssh access). and i'll add a .bash_profile that's the same as mine so you have the same paths. might even e able to get you vnc access so you can see if the gui's working properly |
| 22:20.25 | brlcad | I can tunnel X over ssh to one of my systems to at least make sure that works |
| 22:20.51 | Axman6 | oh yeah, heh |
| 22:20.54 | brlcad | but yeah, tomorrow would be better |
| 22:21.58 | Axman6 | well how about i set up an account for you now, and you just try ssh'ing i, and forwarding X. get those hopefully easy problems out of the way |
| 22:22.13 | brlcad | sure |
| 22:22.39 | Axman6 | alright. any particular account name? :P |
| 22:23.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/ (rtserver.c rtserverTest.c): more finder quelling |
| 22:23.27 | PrezKennedy | Vista infuriates me!! argh |
| 22:23.33 | PrezKennedy | its so bad id almost try a mac |
| 22:23.39 | PrezKennedy | :) |
| 22:23.40 | brlcad | Axman6: "sean" ? :) |
| 22:24.07 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: you should |
| 22:24.14 | Axman6 | and password? i'll assume PrezKennedy is on windows and doesn't have ssh, so it'll be pretty safe :P |
| 22:24.41 | brlcad | Axman6: you can pm me whatever you like |
| 22:25.00 | brlcad | this channel is fully logged, i'm sure others could :) |
| 22:25.00 | Axman6 | PrezKennedy: heh, well i'm an op in #macosx, so i'd definitely say you should. ;) |
| 22:25.41 | Axman6 | good man |
| 22:37.20 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au) | |
| 22:38.46 | Axman6 | ok, want to give ssh a go brlcad? |
| 22:50.20 | Axman6 | ok, seems to be working now rom here |
| 22:50.31 | Axman6 | from* |
| 22:52.03 | brlcad | ready |
| 22:52.56 | Axman6 | tried logging in? |
| 22:53.39 | Axman6 | oh and i guess i should copy over brlcad from my account ;) |
| 22:53.54 | brlcad | don't bother, I'll get a fresh copy so I can check in changes |
| 22:54.07 | brlcad | i'm in |
| 22:55.11 | Axman6 | heh, i'd prefer you didn't, my net's slow, and has a download limit :( |
| 22:55.18 | brlcad | downloading sources now -- I'll give the compile a go tomorrow |
| 22:55.24 | brlcad | ahh, ok |
| 22:55.32 | Axman6 | heh, nah it's ok, download it |
| 22:55.39 | brlcad | you sure? |
| 22:55.43 | brlcad | I can work with whatever |
| 22:55.57 | Axman6 | you do it your way ;) |
| 22:57.02 | brlcad | by the way, what was your benchmark summary? |
| 22:57.07 | brlcad | the vgr count |
| 22:57.16 | Axman6 | ok, you don't need this account logged in locally any more right? since you won't need vnc or anything to check if it's working |
| 22:57.22 | Axman6 | i think it was 6772 |
| 22:57.28 | Axman6 | i'll go check though |
| 22:57.46 | brlcad | cat summary will tell you |
| 22:57.52 | brlcad | and there's a log file |
| 22:58.36 | Axman6 | 6776 |
| 22:59.23 | brlcad | and you didn't compile optimized, so your system is probably somewhere around 13000 |
| 22:59.46 | brlcad | not too bad.. about a quad core ? |
| 22:59.51 | Axman6 | i think i did actually |
| 23:00.03 | Axman6 | dual core, so that makse sense |
| 23:00.12 | Axman6 | yeah i used --enable-optimized |
| 23:00.45 | Axman6 | 2x2.4GHz, 2GB RAM |
| 23:00.47 | brlcad | ah, okay |
| 23:01.31 | brlcad | scales pretty much linearly up to the oct-cores |
| 23:01.49 | brlcad | I see about 27000 there |
| 23:02.31 | Axman6 | very nice :) |
| 23:03.23 | Axman6 | does 64-bit give any speed benefits? |
| 23:03.59 | Axman6 | or just greater RAM access |
| 23:05.02 | Axman6 | oh and you'l probably need to use another prefix right? since you won't have sudo access |
| 23:05.22 | Axman6 | i guess i could give you rw access to /usr/brlcad |
| 23:06.48 | brlcad | 64bit hardly ever increases speed in any app -- just increases the size of the models it'll grok successfully |
| 23:07.53 | Axman6 | yeah. from the vids i saw rom WWDC 2006 i think only showed a speed increase when they were working with a file > 4GB |
| 23:08.11 | Axman6 | the improvment was pretty damn impressive though |
| 23:08.35 | Axman6 | something like going from 90s to 13s |
| 23:09.23 | brlcad | that's because the code ends up jumping through it's own hoops to go over 2GB/4GB |
| 23:09.43 | brlcad | most apps will just fail, abort, or crash at the boundary |
| 23:10.29 | brlcad | the demo was just a hat trick to show if you *did* have to deal with the limited memory and still load big models, what it would be to be able to not have to move stuff in and out of the address space |
| 23:11.46 | Axman6 | yeah, i understand it was a fairly rare situation, unless you work with things like genetics |
| 23:21.19 | Axman6 | brlcad: have you checked X forwarding? |
| 23:26.33 | Axman6 | ok, i'm heading out now. so i'll catch ya later. fi you decide to do anytning today, good luck :) |
| 23:52.27 | brlcad | not yet, just sorting out that base compilation problem is the first part of the problem |
| 23:52.37 | brlcad | will look into it later tonight and tomorrow |
| 23:59.54 | Axman6 | brlcad: i've also given you rw access to /usr/brlcad |
| 00:04.33 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 00:05.03 | yukonbob | Hello, whirled. |
| 00:09.58 | alex_joni | brlcad: hello |
| 00:30.28 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 01:40.30 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:41.31 | IriX64 | on my system this needed doing to makefile.am in bwish,mged and rttherm ---->http://rafb.net/p/OCaS8j87.html |
| 01:47.51 | IriX64 | later |
| 05:43.45 | brlcad | hello alex_joni |
| 06:37.55 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow_ (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 07:31.11 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-128.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:45.05 | Axman6 | hey brlcad, don't suppose you know where the file for that hubble telescope on source forge is do you? |
| 09:26.14 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 13:58.01 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873D18.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 14:55.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Minor mod related to install tree changes. |
| 14:58.00 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Minor mod related to install tree changes. |
| 16:29.31 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-093-138.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 17:12.35 | *** join/#brlcad Templer (n=Templer@78.16.27.240) | |
| 17:15.15 | Templer | anyone know of an autocad equivalent for linux |
| 17:16.52 | poolio | Templer: brl-cad? |
| 17:17.43 | Templer | is it good in 2d also |
| 17:21.05 | poolio | hmm, i've never used it for 2d stuff |
| 17:46.54 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-125.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 18:23.50 | brlcad | Axman6: I have a pretty good idea "where" it is, but it's not exactly a public-release model -- afaik, stsi owns that model (the folks that built/manage hubble) |
| 18:41.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Create include directory (only BRL-CAD header files for now). |
| 18:44.46 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Force asc2g to be built last. |
| 18:47.44 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Added post-build commands to create .g files. |
| 18:48.58 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Mods to work with new install tree. |
| 19:33.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Archer's documentation has moved. |
| 21:51.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/cad_boundp.c remrt/rtsrv.c): no longer need the pre-ansi hacks with c89 functionality assumption, remove the non stdard-based variable-length argument functions |
| 21:57.14 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/track.c: reformat parameters to crname() and crregion() so that they now take a max length parameter. make all the str() funcs use their n-variant to check the string bounds |
| 22:05.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: want the other HAVE_STDARG_H section |
| 22:06.14 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net) | |
| 22:16.46 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.76) | |
| 22:35.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (106 files in 10 dirs): |
| 22:35.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: woo hoo, finally got through most of the flawfinder level 4 issues related to |
| 22:35.11 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: string buffer limits (leaving issues that can probably/mostly be ignored). |
| 22:35.13 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: these changes mostly invovlved using the n-variants of the various string |
| 22:35.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: processing functions so that the buffers being written to are properly clamped. |
| 22:44.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtscale.c: strncat has to account for what's already in there |
| 22:46.31 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: most of the flawfinder issues that we should probably care about are all pretty much accounted for now -- having reviewed all the level 4 and 5 issues individually |
| 22:51.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): no longer need the vprintf test, c89 is a given and all usages of HAVE_VPRINTF are gone |
| 23:17.13 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): make sure we check db_lookup() for a null return value throughout and do something sensible |
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| 00:10.36 | jhujhiti | ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' on debian testing. i cannot, for the life of me, figure out which package i'm missing |
| 00:14.51 | jhujhiti | with 7.10.4, by the way |
| 00:35.03 | ``Erik | um, it probably didn't link libXi.so ? |
| 00:35.11 | ``Erik | did you run autoreconf or autogen or anything? |
| 00:36.22 | jhujhiti | ah ha! libxi-dev wasn't installed. i'll try that |
| 00:36.39 | ``Erik | those'd just be headers... |
| 00:36.43 | jhujhiti | ``Erik: i didn't. i'm quite sure i just didn't install all of the -dev packages and the configure script didn't pick up on it |
| 00:38.43 | ``Erik | and now; conrad twitty. |
| 00:39.34 | jhujhiti | haha |
| 00:40.18 | ``Erik | anyways, that's a lib error, not a header error, so having libXi.so should be all you need... however; debian "fixes" libtool, which horribly breaks any nontrivial use of dependancy libs, and libdm makes a non-trivial use of the dependancy_libs variable in the libdm.la file |
| 00:40.46 | ``Erik | if you're working with stuff striaght out of the tarball and didn't touch any of the automake files, it SHOULD work |
| 00:41.01 | ``Erik | if you have libXi.so handy :) |
| 00:45.06 | jhujhiti | i have /usr/lib/libXi.so{,.6,.6.0.0} |
| 00:45.51 | jhujhiti | it's running its own libtool. |
| 00:46.01 | ``Erik | in theory, ldd /path/to/libdm.so SHOULD list one of those |
| 00:46.31 | jhujhiti | err, libdm isn't building? |
| 00:46.57 | jhujhiti | whoops. disregard that. |
| 00:47.55 | jhujhiti | it doesn't. |
| 00:48.05 | jhujhiti | it doesn't list *any* missing libraries. and no mention of libXi |
| 00:48.40 | ``Erik | weird |
| 00:48.59 | ``Erik | and in the build directory, what's the dependancies line in src/libdm/libdm.la look like? |
| 00:49.51 | jhujhiti | heh, probably too long to paste, eh? |
| 00:49.56 | jhujhiti | although there IS a newline in it |
| 00:50.06 | jhujhiti | dependency_libs=' -L/usr/local/lib /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/librt/librt.la -L/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/tcl/unix /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libbn/libbn.la /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/libregex/libregex.la /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libsysv/libsysv.la /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libfb/libfb.la |
| 00:50.45 | ``Erik | did it truncate? the last thing I saw was libfb.la |
| 00:51.00 | jhujhiti | then i guess the answer is yes. let me pastebin it |
| 00:51.07 | ``Erik | there *SHOULD* be an -lXi on it |
| 00:51.45 | ``Erik | mine looks like http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d22fad3d6 (on a mac) |
| 00:52.10 | jhujhiti | http://qna.nu/p18vc/?raw |
| 00:52.29 | jhujhiti | there's no Xi in it |
| 00:53.23 | ``Erik | odd |
| 00:53.36 | jhujhiti | let me blow away the build directory and start from scratch.. |
| 00:54.18 | ``Erik | so if you grep ^X_LIBS Makefile |
| 00:54.21 | ``Erik | there's no Xi in that? |
| 00:54.26 | ``Erik | X_LIBS = -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi |
| 00:54.37 | jhujhiti | heh, too late =) |
| 00:54.48 | jhujhiti | is there a signature of the tarball somewhere? |
| 00:54.55 | jhujhiti | or an md5sum? sourceforge never makes it easy |
| 00:55.51 | ``Erik | I wonder if you'd need to do something like sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libXi.so.6 /usr/lib/libXi.so ? |
| 00:56.00 | ``Erik | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/distinfo?rev=1.15 has md5 and sha256 |
| 00:56.15 | jhujhiti | /usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0 |
| 00:56.15 | jhujhiti | /usr/lib/libXi.so |
| 00:56.16 | jhujhiti | /usr/lib/libXi.so.6 |
| 00:56.26 | jhujhiti | from find |
| 00:56.54 | ``Erik | um, does libXi.so actually resolve to the libXi.so.6.0.0 file? |
| 00:57.04 | jhujhiti | how would i check that? |
| 00:57.08 | ``Erik | could be a bad symlink, left over? *shrug* |
| 00:57.11 | ``Erik | um, ls -l it? |
| 00:57.12 | ``Erik | :) |
| 00:57.24 | ``Erik | or file, or if you're feeling brave, cat it... er... I mean, run file on it :D |
| 00:57.38 | jhujhiti | /usr/lib/libXi.so -> libXi.so.6.0.0 |
| 00:57.49 | ``Erik | weird |
| 00:58.04 | jhujhiti | configure just finished. which makefile should i grep on? |
| 00:58.21 | ``Erik | if 'grep ^X_LIBS Makefile' doesn't have -lXi in it, would you be able to post your config.log somewhere? |
| 00:58.25 | ``Erik | any of them shoudl work |
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| 00:58.38 | jhujhiti | X_LIBS = -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi |
| 00:59.31 | jhujhiti | err, should the configure step be creating libdm.la? |
| 00:59.52 | ``Erik | no, that's during the compile |
| 01:00.05 | ``Erik | what about 'grep ^DM_LIBS Makefile' ? |
| 01:00.08 | jhujhiti | all right. well then.. is this thing make -j safe? |
| 01:00.18 | ``Erik | i do it all the time on 4 and 8 core machines, it SHOULD work fine |
| 01:00.36 | jhujhiti | i haven't been using it because i wasn't sure. but it takes a bit before it bails out. i'll try make again |
| 01:00.50 | jhujhiti | -lXi is at the very end of that grep. |
| 01:00.53 | ``Erik | ok |
| 01:00.55 | ``Erik | um |
| 01:00.56 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:01.09 | ``Erik | you can, uh, go into src/libdm and do "make depends" |
| 01:01.21 | ``Erik | to bypass a fair bit of stuff ya don't need for libdm proper |
| 01:01.22 | ``Erik | :) |
| 01:01.41 | jhujhiti | let's see if a regular make bails first.. |
| 01:01.41 | ``Erik | (provided I did it right) |
| 01:01.45 | ``Erik | aight |
| 01:02.25 | jhujhiti | do you know off the top of your head what file i could look for to see if the build is past that point? |
| 01:03.06 | ``Erik | uhmmmmmm well, if src/mged/mged exists, then libdm is linking ok |
| 01:05.17 | jhujhiti | neat, -j2 is generating over 3.5 load usually it's just over 2 |
| 01:06.18 | jhujhiti | -rwxr-xr-x 1 jhujhiti 1000 9.0K 2007-12-02 20:06 src/mged/mged* |
| 01:06.29 | jhujhiti | *sigh* that was the third try. what the hell? |
| 01:07.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:07.48 | ``Erik | like everything technological that doesn't work, it always works when someone else is looking :D |
| 01:07.58 | jhujhiti | i did upgrade from etch to testing between that second one, but i was getting the same error as with stable |
| 01:08.05 | jhujhiti | heh, indeed |
| 01:08.13 | jhujhiti | well, thanks for the help ( i guess ) |
| 01:08.24 | ``Erik | np, I guess O.o :D |
| 01:08.38 | jhujhiti | looks like all that heartache over moving away from stable was unnecessary. |
| 01:08.48 | jhujhiti | but i'm not installing debian again to go back. |
| 03:00.06 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) | |
| 03:06.23 | *** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net) | |
| 03:12.30 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
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| 06:32.35 | Axman6 | brlcad: yt? |
| 07:09.31 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@77-56-93-5.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 07:12.26 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 07:23.25 | PrezKennedy | brlcad, have you seen http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/IRSeeK-en? |
| 07:30.00 | Axman6 | i'm hoping freenode find a way to ban them |
| 07:31.34 | PrezKennedy | i think they stopped em for now |
| 07:31.34 | Axman6 | also, anyone know a good tool for viewing or onverting .pix files on OS X? |
| 07:33.46 | PrezKennedy | this is what i posted on bram cohen's blog for his irseek "utility" |
| 07:34.03 | PrezKennedy | Hi, I’m here to log every website you operate. Since they’re available publicly on the Internet, I’ll be taking all of your content and making it searchable from my own site. Also, I’ll be slapping up ads and trying to make a buck from it. If you don’t like that you can opt-out of course. |
| 07:34.33 | *** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) | |
| 07:35.00 | PrezKennedy | *eran cohen... hmm getting too late to read |
| 07:38.49 | yukonbob | Axman6: you have BRLCAD installed? |
| 07:39.05 | yukonbob | if so, see pix-png(1) et al |
| 07:39.50 | Defcon | bw-png? |
| 07:48.57 | Axman6 | ah, thanks :) |
| 08:06.51 | Axman6 | and.. how do i raytrace to a .pix file? |
| 08:15.06 | Axman6 | ah got it |
| 08:59.40 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 09:14.41 | *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 09:34.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: do not return a pointer to a temporary variable, made variable static |
| 09:37.34 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: typing error in preceding commit |
| 09:39.22 | Axman6 | so what is it that makes brlcad's raytracer so fast anyway? |
| 09:42.03 | Defcon | some fine ass C coding prolly |
| 09:58.38 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
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| 11:50.36 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: argv not ptr |
| 12:00.59 | brlcad | PrezKennedy: yes, I have been following some of that |
| 12:01.25 | brlcad | they were stopped, and then they stopped after the freenode ban |
| 12:06.41 | Axman6 | hey brlcad, had a chance to mess around with my mbp yet? |
| 12:47.33 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 14:49.00 | ``Erik | PrezKennedy: shoulda told him he was infringing on your copyright by reproducing your work without license or permission and told him that if he doesn't remove it all immediately, you'd be contacting a lawyer... :D |
| 14:50.20 | ``Erik | Axman6: BRL-CAD goes back to the days of pdp and vax, with computers measured in kilohertz, not gigahertz... it *HAD* to be tight back then, so even with the bloat through the ages, it's reasonably tight :) |
| 14:51.03 | Axman6 | heh, yeah :) |
| 14:52.08 | Axman6 | when i worked at the charity computer place here, we found some bits that had obviously been pulled off olllddd machines, little LED counter displays, showing the CPU's speed in MHz... with only two digits |
| 14:53.28 | ``Erik | heh, I had a few of those |
| 14:53.46 | ``Erik | often set to "HI" and "LO" |
| 14:54.08 | ``Erik | man, the slew of jumpers on the back of those things made configuring those a fun exercise O.o |
| 14:54.22 | Axman6 | we found some awesome stuff there like HDD's from seagate that were about 17x14x10cm, and 1GB |
| 14:54.34 | ``Erik | with I still had 'em :( now I'm buying straight line versions and having to breadboard them |
| 14:54.42 | Axman6 | wtf's a jumper? |
| 14:54.48 | Axman6 | i kis i kid, don't worry ;) |
| 14:54.54 | Axman6 | kid even |
| 14:54.55 | ``Erik | those're called "full height" |
| 14:55.05 | ``Erik | the winchesters you're used to seeing used to be called "half height" |
| 14:55.17 | Axman6 | heh |
| 14:55.28 | Axman6 | i used the 7 platters from one to make an artwork |
| 14:55.53 | ``Erik | m as in megs |
| 14:56.40 | ``Erik | <-- also remembers drooling over the $3000 20m hdd's :( but at the time, a 3.5" floppy was "almost hard drive like" compared to the 5.25"s |
| 14:56.56 | ``Erik | good old commodores |
| 14:59.50 | Defcon | lolz |
| 14:59.50 | Defcon | yeah |
| 14:59.53 | Defcon | good times |
| 15:03.10 | Z80-Boy | I started on a ZX Spectrum |
| 15:03.32 | PrezKennedy | ``Erik, that's SO cliche |
| 15:04.52 | Defcon | Z80-Boy : do u still need http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text |
| 15:06.55 | Axman6 | our first comp was a Mac Plus. i still have it, it's almost as old as me :) |
| 15:08.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Daniel fixed a mged start-up initialization bug on Windows where a local var was being returned for the brlcad_data path. yuck. |
| 15:08.41 | Z80-Boy | Defcon: no |
| 15:09.05 | Defcon | ok |
| 15:09.58 | Axman6 | ah ha! brlcad is in my machine! |
| 15:10.13 | Axman6 | the fans just revved up :P |
| 15:10.37 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:12.00 | Axman6 | didn't know wtf was going on, saw perl running under your name |
| 15:14.32 | brlcad | you must be on the other side of the planet from me, aussie perhaps |
| 15:14.36 | brlcad | pretty big latency |
| 15:15.16 | brlcad | (not a problem) |
| 15:17.10 | Axman6 | yeah, australia indeed |
| 15:17.27 | brlcad | cool |
| 15:17.31 | Axman6 | and my connection sucks balls. 256k down, 64k up :( |
| 15:17.41 | brlcad | that explains why you keep going to sleep when I wake up |
| 15:17.42 | brlcad | :) |
| 15:17.49 | brlcad | that does suck |
| 15:20.30 | Axman6 | hopefully we'll be getting a lot faster these holidays |
| 15:21.48 | Axman6 | if you're compiling stuff on here, using -j 2 speeds it up a lot |
| 15:22.29 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: back in Prague I built myself an optical wireless Internet connection to my balcony - I couldn't complain :) Not many people have optics directly to their flat ;-) |
| 15:22.50 | Axman6 | heh |
| 15:23.26 | Axman6 | we can get optics here, i can see the cab;e outside my window. yet they defided our suburb didn't need it. wankers |
| 15:23.29 | Z80-Boy | Before that my Internet connection really sucked - it was 0 down and 0 up |
| 15:23.43 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: the same happened in our case with cable TV |
| 15:23.55 | Axman6 | lol |
| 15:23.58 | Z80-Boy | But I defined I want it and since I developed my own FSO... |
| 15:24.12 | Defcon | FileSystemObject? |
| 15:24.12 | Axman6 | how'd you do that anyway? |
| 15:24.23 | Z80-Boy | I just pointed my finger to my friend's house and defined the data will go there - and they did :) |
| 15:24.28 | Z80-Boy | Free Space Optics |
| 15:24.32 | Defcon | ohw :) |
| 15:24.45 | Z80-Boy | I went to my balcony and said "Let there be light" and there was |
| 15:24.47 | ``Erik | erm, but, brlcad, we're int he same time zone, and you tend to be going to sleep when I wake up... O.o :D |
| 15:25.19 | Defcon | lol |
| 15:25.41 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: we even had a coaxial cable that went stright through our house without a tap to another house over the street |
| 15:25.48 | Z80-Boy | The other house had catv, we didn't |
| 15:26.03 | Axman6 | cheers |
| 15:26.48 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: since then I think people should stop complaining and simple build their internet connection themselves if they don't like the commercial ones. |
| 15:27.10 | Axman6 | so what's the other end of yours connect to |
| 15:27.11 | Axman6 | ? |
| 15:27.15 | Z80-Boy | to a friend |
| 15:27.20 | Z80-Boy | and he connected to another friend |
| 15:27.27 | Z80-Boy | and that was connected with another friend with a cable |
| 15:27.31 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:27.45 | Z80-Boy | and that one was connected through a professional grade guaranteed microwave link to fibre optics backbone |
| 15:28.06 | Z80-Boy | But since it was profi it was symmetric and they cared about us. |
| 15:28.20 | Z80-Boy | So I had fast both downloads and uploads |
| 15:28.37 | Z80-Boy | And it was cheap. And it was already in time when broadband connection was rare. |
| 15:28.40 | ``Erik | a couple states ago, I had a buddy that lived out in a community with no high speed uplink, he was planning on getting a t1 and setting up a repeated ethernet deal with his neighbors to cost share |
| 15:28.51 | Axman6 | bastard |
| 15:29.01 | Axman6 | i couldn't do that gere though |
| 15:29.05 | Axman6 | here* |
| 15:29.16 | ``Erik | highspeed co-op... this was before adsl and cable modems started getting traction |
| 15:29.27 | Axman6 | canberra's just too spread out... and even the backbone ain't that fast here :P |
| 15:29.41 | Z80-Boy | where in australia is canberra? |
| 15:30.04 | ``Erik | in the tiny little strip with people, dur :D *duck* |
| 15:30.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/strsol.c: quell empty compilation unit warning |
| 15:30.26 | Z80-Boy | which coast? |
| 15:31.08 | Axman6 | east, inland from sydney.. it happens to be the nation's capitol ;) |
| 15:32.24 | ``Erik | http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-35.281501,148.683472&spn=21.622459,54.777832&z=6 |
| 15:33.30 | Z80-Boy | Is it good for surfing>? |
| 15:33.54 | Axman6 | yeah, if you don't ind a 200KM drive ;) |
| 15:33.58 | Z80-Boy | omg |
| 15:33.59 | Axman6 | mind* |
| 15:34.16 | Z80-Boy | is it 200km from the coast? |
| 15:34.27 | Z80-Boy | or on the coast but 200km to the next usable surfing spot? |
| 15:34.30 | ``Erik | but it's australia, you can do that in what, an hour? a little less? :D |
| 15:34.40 | Z80-Boy | or on the cost but 200km are occupied by rowdy local surfers? |
| 15:34.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c if_tk.c if_wgl.c): quell empty compilation unit warning |
| 15:34.50 | Axman6 | ah 200Km from the coast |
| 15:35.02 | Axman6 | nah* damn keyboard |
| 15:35.36 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: that means you need to go >200 km/h |
| 15:35.51 | ``Erik | uh huh? it's australia! there's nothin' there, you can open it up :D *duck* |
| 15:35.53 | Axman6 | ``Erik: we have sane speed limits, fastest in this part of Aus is 110Kph. the NT used to have unlimited roads |
| 15:36.03 | Z80-Boy | what if you hit a kangaroo, koala, wombat or elephant-sized spider in that speed? |
| 15:36.11 | Z80-Boy | It could have arepercussions for your vehicle |
| 15:36.21 | Axman6 | kangaroo's does serious damage to cars man |
| 15:36.27 | ``Erik | dur (and I think kangaroos are the big ones, as bad as deer here in the US) |
| 15:36.33 | Axman6 | like, you can write off your car if you hit one |
| 15:36.37 | brlcad | Axman6: thanks for the hint, though I'm pretty adept in parallel compilation :) |
| 15:36.50 | Axman6 | lol, my bad :P |
| 15:36.59 | brlcad | ``Erik: heh |
| 15:37.24 | Axman6 | yeah... if you are going -j it, don't do it until i say it's ok, ok? don't want to burn my lap ;) |
| 15:37.27 | ``Erik | -j2 is a waste of hw, we do at least -j8 on our workstations, axman :) |
| 15:38.24 | ``Erik | and brlcad wrote a 'fast' target to do big parallel compiles to take advantage of the 12 and 16 core boxen floating around |
| 15:39.39 | Axman6 | and 512 too? |
| 15:40.17 | ``Erik | I haven't dorked with compile speeds on machines with multiple cores sharing a cache like the duos do, but back in the day of each core having its own die and cache, you wanted more threads than cores... like on a two processor Usparc (like a usparc2 or e450), I'd do -j3 |
| 15:40.50 | ``Erik | um, we have I think 2048 core "machines", but recursive make means the most you can parallelize is the number of compilation units in a given directory |
| 15:41.09 | Axman6 | yeah, Apple are pretty good at threading support i believe, so that might improve things a little |
| 15:41.57 | ``Erik | I d'no, multithreading on g5 has serious kernel flaws for performance... balancing instead of tuning affinity for cache coherence, and no user knobs back in the day... the shared cache machines alleviate that |
| 15:42.58 | ``Erik | the mac pros probably have some of that issue, since they have two l2 caches (two 4-core dies) |
| 15:44.33 | Axman6 | yeah.. lost me now |
| 15:45.27 | brlcad | the 'fast' target also links in parallel unlike default all target, so it can speed things up on a cluster or machines with wide I/O to spare |
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| 15:46.04 | brlcad | Axman6: I have compiled on a 512 processor box (single image SMP) before, quite nice |
| 15:46.28 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: then you use -j 1024 |
| 15:46.30 | Z80-Boy | ? |
| 15:46.31 | brlcad | limited more by the make architecture at that point, the per-directory linking phases |
| 15:46.32 | Axman6 | heh :) |
| 15:55.08 | alex_joni | http://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/books/rmch/ :) |
| 15:56.23 | brlcad | alex_joni: yes, that's old old stuff (and mostly crap) |
| 15:56.46 | alex_joni | brlcad: yeah, I know.. that's why I smiled |
| 15:57.02 | alex_joni | however, it does seem to provide advantages sometimes to have a central Makefile |
| 15:57.35 | brlcad | I've been meaning to write a Nonrecursive Make Also Considered Harmful for a couple years |
| 15:57.48 | brlcad | there are advantages and disadvantages just like most things |
| 15:57.52 | alex_joni | yup |
| 15:59.01 | brlcad | about as fruitful as trying to categorically declare centralized revision control systems as bad (or good) |
| 16:00.07 | brlcad | you give up quite a lot of features by going non-recursive, features that are a pita to implement and maintain in a non-recursive make build system |
| 16:01.00 | brlcad | i still end up waiting more on gcc for the actual compiles and disk I/O than I end up waiting on make |
| 16:01.49 | brlcad | configure and the installation phase actually takes the longest on the faster systems these days than the actual compilation |
| 16:02.12 | Axman6 | could configure be made faster? |
| 16:02.23 | brlcad | mostly due to I/O .. the disks just can't read/write the data fast enough |
| 16:02.52 | Axman6 | probably not then |
| 16:02.53 | brlcad | configure could be streamlined to perform fewer tests, but it's biggest problem is that it's non-trivial to parallelize |
| 16:03.12 | brlcad | and it is massively i/o bound anyways so yeah, wouldn't gain a *whole* lot |
| 16:03.23 | alex_joni | right.. configure is not a place for optimizing |
| 16:03.43 | alex_joni | (you only run it seldom anyways.. <- from the devel point of view) |
| 16:04.14 | alex_joni | the biggest issues I had with recursive make was depenencies from one subfolder to another.. that caused some extra compiling |
| 16:04.18 | Axman6 | it's 50% of the compile process for average users though ;) |
| 16:08.40 | brlcad | alex_joni: most of the cases of "extra compiling" that I've heard of were either incorrectly structured source files or actual valid (i.e. necessary) recompilation |
| 16:09.41 | brlcad | Axman6: what's 50%? the configure phase? |
| 16:10.09 | Axman6 | well, not time wise. but can be pretty major art times |
| 16:12.05 | brlcad | on an old 12 proc altix, it takes about 1 minute to run configure, 2 minutes to compile everything, and 4 minutes to install |
| 16:14.20 | alex_joni | brlcad: I guess it was a combo CVS + incorrectly structured files.. :) |
| 16:14.42 | alex_joni | (I only said CVS because you know what pain it is to move files around..) |
| 16:14.48 | brlcad | on MBP it's about 1 min configure, 9 min to compile (on 2-core), and about 4 min to install ;) |
| 16:17.21 | Axman6 | that's while playing james bond ;) |
| 16:18.21 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r355 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/Makefile.am inc/botlib.h src/Makefile.am): add build files to compile the new noinst botlib |
| 16:18.47 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r356 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/Makefile.am: ws |
| 16:19.22 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r357 10/trunk/libirc/NEWS: itemize news for a 0.2 release |
| 16:19.40 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r358 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: have to traverse botlib before src |
| 16:20.00 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r359 10/trunk/libirc/src/Makefile.am: link in botlib |
| 16:20.15 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r360 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: generate the makefiles for botlib |
| 16:21.30 | ``Erik | or mebbe tclscripts, since there's nothing to do in 'all', just 'install' |
| 16:22.23 | Axman6 | brlcad: any of those Leopard fixes by any chance?? |
| 16:22.38 | brlcad | Axman6: nope |
| 16:22.48 | brlcad | my compile actually worked out of the box on the first try :) |
| 16:22.51 | brlcad | (on your machine) |
| 16:22.54 | Axman6 | heh, oh well |
| 16:23.00 | Axman6 | that is odd : |
| 16:23.03 | brlcad | but has the cg_png bug on install |
| 16:23.03 | Axman6 | :| |
| 16:23.17 | brlcad | you ran distclean at some point |
| 16:23.35 | brlcad | so you blew away the already-generated tclIndex files .. so when it went to regenerate them, it failed |
| 16:23.50 | brlcad | that problem still exists but since I've no need to distclean, the build completely succeeds |
| 16:23.58 | brlcad | just fails after it's installed |
| 16:24.01 | Axman6 | since i copied my .bash_profile over for you so you had the same PATH etc. i did |
| 16:24.17 | brlcad | it's not anything path-related |
| 16:24.22 | Axman6 | rightp |
| 16:24.27 | Axman6 | o* |
| 16:25.01 | Axman6 | yeah i didn't think it would be, but lis are found usinf PATH in a way right? maybe i'm making that up... |
| 16:26.08 | Axman6 | libs* beh |
| 16:26.18 | brlcad | nope |
| 16:26.59 | brlcad | they're find by traversing a set of system-default dyld search paths, and can be overridden with various compilation/linker flags and environment variables |
| 16:27.01 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r361 10/trunk/libirc/ (31 files in 11 dirs): credit where credit is due, assign copyright to the Jeff guy that actually wrote most of it all |
| 16:27.11 | brlcad | DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH for example |
| 16:28.34 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 16:29.03 | ``Erik | neato, symbolics was the first to register a .com domain name (they made lithp machineth) |
| 16:29.20 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r362 10/trunk/libirc/AUTHORS: yet he is not me |
| 16:29.30 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r363 10/trunk/libirc/autogen.sh: and he didn't write this |
| 16:30.08 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r364 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: this is libIRC project.. not 'that other project' |
| 16:36.15 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r365 10/trunk/libirc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): accept pelya's sf patch [ 1843257 ] "MSVC 6 project files" -- thanks\! |
| 16:39.19 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r366 10/trunk/libirc/AUTHORS: thank pelya for the vc6 build system addition |
| 16:41.10 | CIA-28 | libirc: 03brlcad * r367 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: add vc6 to the source dist |
| 16:47.03 | brlcad | well now that's really interesting |
| 16:47.17 | brlcad | once installed, our compiled-in rpaths do seem to kick in and take over |
| 16:47.28 | brlcad | no dyld issues |
| 16:47.33 | brlcad | Axman6: try running mged -f |
| 16:48.06 | Axman6 | X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) |
| 16:48.09 | brlcad | do you get the X error, the cg err, or no err |
| 16:48.11 | brlcad | okay |
| 16:48.12 | Axman6 | etc. |
| 16:48.15 | brlcad | well that's good |
| 16:49.11 | brlcad | that means a base install will actually work just fine compilation-wise, so long as you don't distclean |
| 16:54.04 | brlcad | hm, I do get the X11 bug even remotely (talking to your X11 server) |
| 16:54.28 | brlcad | initial thoughts look like this might be an Xorg bug |
| 16:58.37 | Axman6 | very very possible |
| 16:58.57 | Z80-Boy | X11 is one big bug |
| 16:59.00 | Axman6 | Apple seem to have broken X pretty badly with the move to Xorg |
| 16:59.03 | Axman6 | agreed |
| 16:59.50 | Z80-Boy | I compile Xorg 6.9 on Linux From Scratch and it works fine except every time I shut it down, it prints a white rectangle in the place of cursor, a dark strip in the bottom and the screen freezes. |
| 16:59.55 | Z80-Boy | I have to reboot the computer then. |
| 17:00.32 | Axman6 | haha |
| 17:00.53 | brlcad | Axman6: try this: XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 mged -f |
| 17:01.09 | Axman6 | i'm so glad Apple didn't go with X and went their own way. get a great UNIX system, without the X crap |
| 17:01.28 | Axman6 | same error |
| 17:10.08 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net) | |
| 17:27.10 | brlcad | huh, one of the suggestions I ran into was to roll back to Tiger's X11, which apparently works |
| 17:27.26 | brlcad | so maybe just a matter of time, waiting for the fix |
| 17:27.45 | brlcad | still looking for details as to what exactly is *causing* the problem to see if it can be avoided |
| 17:31.12 | Axman6 | i think i'm going to cry, just watched james bond's latest Aston get written off |
| 17:33.57 | brlcad | where he flipped it a few dozen times? |
| 17:34.20 | brlcad | to avoid the girl they tossed into the road |
| 17:34.22 | alex_joni | brlcad: ever looked at u3d ? |
| 17:35.11 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 17:35.13 | ``Erik | like http://my2iu.blogspot.com/2005/04/u3d-is-half-baked.html ? :) |
| 17:35.16 | brlcad | alex_joni: the geometry format standard from intel? |
| 17:35.26 | alex_joni | yeah, that one |
| 17:35.27 | brlcad | http://www.intel.com/technology/systems/u3d/ |
| 17:35.32 | brlcad | no, never heard of it :P |
| 17:35.39 | alex_joni | lol @ brlcad |
| 17:36.02 | alex_joni | I'm specifically looking at it because it *should* be easy to integrade U3D objects into pdf's |
| 17:36.54 | ``Erik | depends on whos pdf library you use, I'd imagine |
| 17:37.32 | alex_joni | I think people succeeded with libharu (if I recall the name correctly) |
| 17:38.01 | alex_joni | ``Erik: but it seems Adobe integrated U3D into pdf's version 7 or later |
| 17:38.15 | ``Erik | yeah, if you happen to use adobes pdf libraries... :D |
| 17:39.22 | alex_joni | well.. umm .. yeah |
| 17:39.40 | Axman6 | :P |
| 17:39.59 | ``Erik | good idea, axman, start codin' that up :D |
| 17:40.08 | brlcad | ahh, now I see why Apple made the s/X11R6/X11/ move |
| 17:40.15 | brlcad | looks like Xorg is pushing out an R7 finally |
| 17:40.30 | Axman6 | i thought it was R7 |
| 17:40.40 | Axman6 | not that they eans much to me |
| 17:40.48 | Axman6 | that means* wow |
| 17:41.01 | brlcad | I think I new that, but forgot |
| 17:41.26 | brlcad | and knew it too |
| 17:42.17 | ``Erik | fbsd has been using xorg 7.3 for a bit |
| 17:42.19 | brlcad | ah, R7.3 just in september |
| 17:42.27 | brlcad | .2 in feb |
| 17:42.45 | ``Erik | ah, those silly beta using fools |
| 17:43.41 | ``Erik | rug |
| 17:44.02 | brlcad | speaking of which.. beta3 |
| 17:44.11 | ``Erik | saw it a few days ago |
| 17:44.24 | ``Erik | if they're cycling betas that fast, I'm hoping they're getting close to a release O.o |
| 17:44.39 | brlcad | "8.5 is nearing the end of feature development." |
| 17:45.16 | brlcad | they're concept of a beta isn't apparently "fix things" but last minute additions |
| 17:45.24 | ``Erik | odd |
| 17:45.39 | ``Erik | wonder what 'alpha' means to them |
| 17:45.50 | brlcad | just getting started ;) |
| 17:46.11 | ``Erik | some camps call that pre-alpha O.o :D |
| 17:46.35 | curious | them slackers |
| 17:46.39 | brlcad | that just might fix/hide this 10.5 startup bug |
| 17:47.25 | Axman6 | calling it a beta? :P |
| 17:47.27 | brlcad | from what I've seen, the bug seems to be provoked by ati driver and the new freetype code (as it pertains to tcl/tk) along with a couple Xorg bugs |
| 17:48.06 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 17:49.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: silly coder, snprintf needs a length, too |
| 17:49.09 | Axman6 | brlcad: well wouldn't be an ATI problem here |
| 17:49.18 | Axman6 | oww :( |
| 17:49.24 | Axman6 | 74C |
| 17:49.33 | ``Erik | uhmmmm, uhhhh |
| 17:49.46 | ``Erik | get, uh, CoreDuoTemp and smcSomething, uhhhh |
| 17:50.05 | yukonbob | Axman6: good -- I'm ready for breakfast -- two eggs, basted + brown toast, please. |
| 17:50.22 | Axman6 | 82C |
| 17:50.30 | Axman6 | not even 100% cpu either |
| 17:50.32 | ``Erik | there're some nifty utilities for controlling the fan speed envelopes |
| 17:50.41 | ``Erik | smcFanControl |
| 17:50.57 | Axman6 | yeah i have SMCFanController... it'a what's telling me the temp :P |
| 17:51.09 | Axman6 | 86C |
| 17:51.17 | *** part/#brlcad jhujhiti (n=jhujhiti@64.252.100.253) | |
| 17:51.19 | Axman6 | fan's haven't kicked in yet |
| 17:51.23 | ``Erik | if you push up the low and tweak the envelope, you can keep the temp a lot lower |
| 17:51.24 | Axman6 | 87 |
| 17:51.36 | Axman6 | there we go |
| 17:51.59 | brlcad | Axman6: yep, 'cause of that I/O limit |
| 17:52.09 | ``Erik | I mostly did it because I was getting annoyed at the fans going on and off a lot, so I pushed the low up to like 2000 or 2500 rpm (not very audible) and they greatly reduced the fan cycling |
| 17:52.17 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: double oops, snprintf doesn't need %s size limits |
| 17:52.20 | brlcad | it really wouldn't go must faster if you have 20 cpus or a cpu that was 10x faster |
| 17:52.20 | Axman6 | brlcad: make? |
| 17:52.24 | brlcad | s/must/much/ |
| 17:52.32 | brlcad | no, the autogen.sh and configure steps |
| 17:53.00 | ``Erik | the %Ns limit doesn't hurt nothin', but pushing the format string as the limit does... :D |
| 17:53.04 | Axman6 | ok. yeah because make cn easily use 100% on moth cores |
| 17:53.33 | brlcad | ``Erik: i know, it was just pointless |
| 17:54.18 | brlcad | would have mattered had buffer had more than 32 chars space, but not at same |
| 17:59.24 | Axman6 | bah, there is no way bond would use a sony vaio! |
| 18:03.44 | brlcad | I was right, it is related to the freetype2 X11 processing code in Tk |
| 18:03.50 | brlcad | Axman6: should be working now |
| 18:04.44 | Axman6 | mged -f? |
| 18:05.13 | Axman6 | same error still |
| 18:05.56 | Axman6 | hang on |
| 18:07.07 | Axman6 | how oddwell, no error, but i don't get the mged prompt |
| 18:07.40 | Axman6 | so i can't seem to actually do anything with it :\ |
| 18:20.07 | Axman6 | and mged -f gives the same error again |
| 18:25.52 | Axman6 | 8ok, sleep time. g'night all. brlcad if you have anything you need me to test, or news, just hilight me and i'l get it in the morning |
| 18:29.54 | ``Erik | heh, cvs -z3 commit -m 'terrible crimes against humanity' |
| 18:29.56 | ``Erik | *cough* O.o |
| 18:31.31 | brlcad | hm, Axman6 yours answers were rather confusing to me :) |
| 18:31.46 | brlcad | Axman6: did no windows pop up when you ran mged -f? |
| 18:43.39 | brlcad | Axman6: because it works here.. I successfully ran the mged installed in /usr/brlcad/bin/mged and actually have it displaying all the way from the continent you're on to mine over X, and seems to be working just fine |
| 18:44.49 | brlcad | at least.. where working is a 5 min startup delay and each mouse click takes about 1 minute to respond :) |
| 18:48.37 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: disable the new freetype font system in Tk 8.5 for now until they're final -- this should 'fix'/avoid a bug reported by dwayne regarding the mged font manager not working right in 7.10.4 |
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| 21:55.54 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/proe-g.c: be more consistent on the buffer lengths and limits (needs testing on the name generation) using MAX_LINE_LENGTH for the names too |
| 21:58.18 | yukonbob | brlcad: scan.coverity still pending? |
| 22:08.03 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c: move the format string to the (single) use |
| 22:25.13 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (6 files): build execution paths for both single and double precision floats in the same lib |
| 22:25.26 | brlcad | yukonbob: yep |
| 22:28.00 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: don't need the HAVE_STDARG_H checks any more, keep it simple |
| 22:28.22 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbfade.c: const labelification |
| 22:28.50 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cell-fb.c: make sure we don't go too far on the buffer |
| 22:30.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: const lables |
| 22:31.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h): make triangle degeneracy testing a runtime selectable feature |
| 22:31.03 | yukonbob | brlcad: :P |
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| 22:58.20 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/7.11.0.png <--- finally |
| 22:58.40 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (17 files in 8 dirs): c89 simplification. assume stdarg is a given. |
| 23:01.00 | IriX64 | that makefile.am thing is one thing, -lXft in X_libs is needed in bwish,mged,and rttherm |
| 23:01.37 | louipc | IriX64: what's in the image? |
| 23:01.45 | IriX64 | ktank :) |
| 23:01.55 | louipc | oh |
| 23:02.14 | IriX64 | you said you were tired of helicopters ;) |
| 23:02.21 | louipc | hahha |
| 23:02.50 | louipc | IriX64: have you tried playing with any linux/bsd yet? |
| 23:03.10 | IriX64 | not yet, waiting for Christmas |
| 23:03.17 | louipc | ah |
| 23:03.42 | louipc | you know, I think I'd rather just use one of those in a VM rather than cygwin heh |
| 23:03.56 | IriX64 | vm costs money :) |
| 23:04.34 | IriX64 | altho,like all else once spent it's spent :) |
| 23:04.57 | louipc | http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads |
| 23:05.10 | louipc | that one is free |
| 23:06.19 | IriX64 | downloading it thanks man |
| 23:06.36 | alex_joni | there is also a free one from VMware |
| 23:06.45 | louipc | yeah I thought so too |
| 23:06.46 | alex_joni | VMware server, if my memory still serves me |
| 23:06.57 | IriX64 | checked vmware,didn't see the free one |
| 23:07.10 | louipc | haha it's on the front page |
| 23:07.11 | alex_joni | IriX64: what platform? |
| 23:07.16 | louipc | http://www.vmware.com/ |
| 23:07.17 | alex_joni | (for the host..) |
| 23:07.21 | IriX64 | amd64 |
| 23:08.10 | IriX64 | vista64 actually |
| 23:08.18 | alex_joni | http://register.vmware.com/content/download103.html |
| 23:08.21 | louipc | oh you have to register though |
| 23:08.41 | louipc | hey you bypassed it? |
| 23:08.57 | IriX64 | i registered the evaluation workstation copy |
| 23:09.08 | alex_joni | louipc: no, you still have to register after the download |
| 23:09.14 | louipc | ah |
| 23:09.26 | alex_joni | s/after/during/before/ |
| 23:09.37 | alex_joni | whatever suits you :) |
| 23:09.51 | IriX64 | heh whatever suit fits :) |
| 23:10.14 | alex_joni | well.. so far I didn't either.. but lately I got 2-3 examples that really worked as advertised |
| 23:10.35 | alex_joni | vmware was one of them |
| 23:11.30 | louipc | you eat your visitors? |
| 23:13.25 | alex_joni | louipc: if they're foolish enough to come without food |
| 23:13.49 | louipc | aha! |
| 23:20.04 | louipc | qemu does |
| 23:22.51 | louipc | oh yeah bochs too |
| 00:44.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cell-fb.c: strNcat |
| 00:57.15 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: too many lines |
| 01:12.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 01:32.42 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: don't need the non __STDC__ decls any longer, include bu.h in order to declare the stdarg compiler hint |
| 01:36.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 4 dirs): remove the last traces of stdarg/vararg testing. c89 conformance provides the stdarg interface. |
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| 12:07.49 | Axman6 | "Implement or integrate a RenderMan-compliant interface (e.g. Pixie) to BRL-CAD's ray-trace library" looking to have Toy Story 6 rendered entirely using BRL-CAD eh brlcad? :P |
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| 13:08.41 | brlcad | Axman6: heh, not exactly |
| 13:08.48 | brlcad | but would be interesting :) |
| 13:08.52 | Axman6 | aww :P |
| 13:08.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: update to the details on the C++age since there is some now |
| 13:09.10 | Axman6 | yeah, i'd be interested to see how it would stack up to what Pixar uses |
| 13:12.49 | Axman6 | also, if you want to do more Leopard work, the MBP's all yours for the next 8 or so hours |
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| 14:13.33 | brlcad | Axman6: thanks, though I think I've done what I can |
| 14:14.13 | brlcad | did you get my message earlier -- what does it do/report if you run "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f" now? |
| 14:14.20 | Axman6 | ok, well if you have any bright ideas, t's all yours |
| 14:14.46 | Axman6 | same X error |
| 14:20.11 | Axman6 | just tried in the guest account, same thing |
| 14:20.27 | Axman6 | and seep time for me. G'night all |
| 14:41.37 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 14:56.36 | Maloeran | Eh well, Mark is meeting Disney Studios on the December 17th to talk about raytracing stuff, rayforce and renderman probably |
| 14:57.10 | *** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) | |
| 15:00.13 | DEFCON_ | very nice :) |
| 15:01.08 | DEFCON_ | btw: hi Maloeran |
| 15:01.17 | DEFCON_ | tnx for Ectroverse again :) |
| 15:04.41 | Maloeran | Oh hrm, have you been playing? That was such a long time ago :) |
| 15:07.12 | Maloeran | A rather stressing and annoying experience overall, it sure taught me to stick to writing code rather than manage some kind of community, and never again to write code "for fun, as it goes" without any kind of planning whatsoever |
| 15:10.37 | DEFCON_ | haha |
| 15:10.45 | DEFCON_ | yeah i know what u mean actually |
| 15:11.04 | DEFCON_ | but the game is still alive after 5(?) years |
| 15:11.25 | Maloeran | So I heard. I haven't had the heart to check it out |
| 15:11.33 | DEFCON_ | it would be nice if u dropped by |
| 15:11.40 | DEFCON_ | www.ectroverse.com |
| 15:12.01 | Maloeran | Are you involved somehow or in touch with these people? |
| 15:12.08 | DEFCON_ | just make a quick "hi" post in the forums |
| 15:12.19 | DEFCON_ | "these ppl" as in brlcad or ev? |
| 15:12.31 | Maloeran | :) I mean Ev |
| 15:12.36 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:12.40 | DEFCON_ | yes, yes i am |
| 15:13.24 | Maloeran | Eh nice. Are you somehow involved in BRL-CAD as well? |
| 15:13.40 | DEFCON_ | not involved no |
| 15:13.50 | DEFCON_ | but i follow the app |
| 15:13.56 | DEFCON_ | i like the results of it |
| 15:14.20 | Maloeran | I sure remember a DEFCON on IRC from the EV days, but I must admit it's a bit vague, the memories are slowly coming back |
| 15:14.33 | DEFCON_ | yeah it was me |
| 15:14.33 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:14.49 | DEFCON_ | do you remember berlijnse_bol aka daydreamer? |
| 15:14.57 | Maloeran | Oh sure, of course |
| 15:15.10 | DEFCON_ | he is a friend of me irl |
| 15:15.20 | DEFCON_ | he introduced me to ev |
| 15:15.34 | DEFCON_ | we(you and me) actually talked alot about ev |
| 15:15.41 | DEFCON_ | and programming in general |
| 15:16.13 | DEFCON_ | i remember that you were playing around/learning the openGL and stuff |
| 15:16.14 | Maloeran | Yes, I remember. I'm sorry it took me a while for the memories to resurface |
| 15:16.30 | DEFCON_ | i can imagin :) |
| 15:16.46 | Maloeran | I think the mind may have pushed these memories far back, it was not always overly pleasant |
| 15:16.46 | DEFCON_ | you were creating landscapes and stuff |
| 15:16.56 | DEFCON_ | why not? |
| 15:17.28 | DEFCON_ | my involvement in brl-cad : http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text |
| 15:17.32 | Maloeran | Mostly, it was the "duty" of having to do some constant work on a piece of software that I wrote as a quick experiment and it grew out of hands |
| 15:17.42 | DEFCON_ | haha |
| 15:17.47 | Maloeran | The code design sure was horrible, no planning whatsoever, just experiements pilling up |
| 15:17.54 | Maloeran | experiments* too |
| 15:18.03 | DEFCON_ | i thought u wanted to create a better imperial conflict |
| 15:18.04 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:18.34 | Maloeran | Yes yes... :) Originally, it still was just an experiment, something quickly put together an afternoon |
| 15:18.50 | DEFCON_ | haha |
| 15:18.51 | DEFCON_ | rly |
| 15:18.52 | Maloeran | Then people started registering, discussing it, asking for features, and you can guess the rest |
| 15:18.58 | DEFCON_ | indeed |
| 15:18.58 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:19.05 | DEFCON_ | still, it works great |
| 15:19.18 | DEFCON_ | and ppl still play it after 5 years |
| 15:20.01 | Maloeran | It's rather nice to see that actually. Would you happen to know if anyone ever redesigned... hum, the whole code? :) |
| 15:21.02 | DEFCON_ | i know that yes |
| 15:21.07 | DEFCON_ | no it didn't happen |
| 15:21.18 | DEFCON_ | we are still using your code |
| 15:21.35 | DEFCON_ | but over the years our "Maincoder" has made several changes |
| 15:21.44 | DEFCON_ | *little changes |
| 15:21.57 | Maloeran | Should I guess that you are that person? |
| 15:22.15 | DEFCON_ | wrong |
| 15:22.25 | DEFCON_ | i wish i knew C that good |
| 15:22.31 | DEFCON_ | but i'm still a vb.net person |
| 15:22.43 | Maloeran | Tsk :), all right |
| 15:22.56 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:24.04 | Maloeran | I don't think I want to drop by and say "Hi", I'm a bit ashamed of how I burned out and disappeared |
| 15:25.29 | DEFCON_ | aargh |
| 15:25.37 | DEFCON_ | that REALLY doesn't matter |
| 15:25.50 | DEFCON_ | ppl there would love to hear something from you |
| 15:26.05 | DEFCON_ | they still refer to you as their god :) |
| 15:26.43 | Maloeran | Yes, a friend googled my name some time ago and told me of that... *shivers* :) |
| 15:27.00 | DEFCON_ | haha :) |
| 15:28.19 | Maloeran | So how has life been for you and Daydreamer since these days? |
| 15:28.58 | DEFCON_ | i finished college(in belgium) and now i work as a developper |
| 15:29.06 | DEFCON_ | daydreamer is now a history teacher |
| 15:29.09 | Maloeran | I chatted with DD briefly many months ago, I kept in touch with spooky3do for a long time |
| 15:29.17 | Maloeran | Very nice |
| 15:29.29 | DEFCON_ | but i didn't see him for a long long time |
| 15:29.44 | DEFCON_ | spooky3do yeah i remember him |
| 15:29.45 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:30.47 | Maloeran | He used to come on Efnet where we chatted frequently ( not so much of the old EV days ), until last month. I don't suppose you know where to catch him? |
| 15:31.42 | DEFCON_ | we tracked you down, didn't we |
| 15:31.55 | DEFCON_ | so i guess one could track him down 2 :) |
| 15:32.17 | DEFCON_ | but no, i don't know where to find him immediately |
| 15:32.30 | Maloeran | :) All right, I was just wondering |
| 15:33.27 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:37.01 | DEFCON_ | is he german? |
| 15:38.02 | Maloeran | Yes he is |
| 15:38.43 | DEFCON_ | http://ic-wiki.com/index.php?title=IC_Map_Generator |
| 15:39.46 | Maloeran | Eh, IC was kind of hard to play without that kind of tool, I assume they fixed that since then |
| 15:39.56 | DEFCON_ | when i google "spooky3do" i only find old logs of him playing games are making tools |
| 15:40.00 | DEFCON_ | no Maloeran |
| 15:40.05 | DEFCON_ | it's still the same map |
| 15:40.14 | DEFCON_ | no generator, no .. |
| 15:40.21 | DEFCON_ | still very hard to play |
| 15:40.21 | DEFCON_ | :( |
| 15:40.22 | Maloeran | Ouch, what a shame |
| 15:40.27 | DEFCON_ | true |
| 15:40.58 | Maloeran | Writing an online game was so amazingly easy, that part was rather interesting |
| 15:41.08 | Maloeran | In comparison to dealing with computational fluid dynamics anyway |
| 15:42.18 | DEFCON_ | haha |
| 15:42.20 | DEFCON_ | indeed |
| 15:43.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:43.03 | ``Erik | morning, mal :) |
| 15:43.07 | DEFCON_ | brlcad, rayforce is way to advanced for me |
| 15:43.12 | Maloeran | Hey Erik |
| 15:43.12 | DEFCON_ | ,... btw |
| 15:43.51 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:43.57 | Maloeran | :) I think Mark want to try selling something to Disney first |
| 15:44.05 | Maloeran | He's meeting them on December 17th |
| 15:44.13 | ``Erik | of course, he wants closed source and money in his pocket |
| 15:44.37 | ``Erik | and if you get some of that $'s, too, that'd be gnarly |
| 15:44.57 | Maloeran | Well, I suppose I will, I hold the copyright and control the patents... |
| 15:45.05 | DEFCON_ | haha smart :) |
| 15:46.11 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:46.20 | ``Erik | hahaha |
| 15:46.23 | DEFCON_ | haha |
| 15:46.38 | ``Erik | just think, I could be ponying up $'s for a fancy opengl ectoverse instead of paying evil blizzard/vivendi for wow! |
| 15:46.47 | DEFCON_ | he could have made some money off of ev yes |
| 15:47.08 | DEFCON_ | ev is web based |
| 15:47.11 | DEFCON_ | no opengl |
| 15:47.17 | ``Erik | in its current invocation, yes |
| 15:47.19 | DEFCON_ | but hell, that would be soo cool |
| 15:47.27 | Maloeran | There was an opengl client at some point, to explore the map |
| 15:47.32 | DEFCON_ | yes |
| 15:47.37 | DEFCON_ | it still exists |
| 15:47.40 | ``Erik | but even web based, if you wan to go to the darkside, um |
| 15:47.42 | DEFCON_ | i still use it |
| 15:47.45 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:47.48 | ``Erik | krissa was doing webstart opengl apps for a bit |
| 15:48.21 | Maloeran | Writing web stuff these days would be terribly annoying, with all this Flash or whatever else, which changes every 6 months |
| 15:48.29 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:48.30 | Maloeran | Ectroverse used HTML 3.1 pages |
| 15:48.41 | DEFCON_ | indeed :) |
| 15:48.41 | ``Erik | I've been learning this "ajax" stuff |
| 15:48.56 | DEFCON_ | ajax with perl? |
| 15:48.58 | ``Erik | disgustingly simple, but the interface impact makes me wonder |
| 15:49.06 | DEFCON_ | indeed |
| 15:49.08 | DEFCON_ | simple |
| 15:49.09 | ``Erik | no, php on the back end, planning on moving to a lithp DSO or something |
| 15:49.11 | DEFCON_ | ah |
| 15:49.22 | Maloeran | As for OpenGL based software, people tend to have high expectations regarding 3d graphics and related art |
| 15:49.32 | DEFCON_ | true |
| 15:49.40 | ``Erik | but they didn't in '97! woulda been the perfect time to break in :D |
| 15:49.45 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:49.52 | ``Erik | and, uh |
| 15:50.01 | ``Erik | have you seen wow? peoples expectations aren't THAT high, dude |
| 15:50.02 | DEFCON_ | mal would be rich now :) |
| 15:50.14 | DEFCON_ | just make ppl addicted |
| 15:50.19 | ``Erik | the noisy ones who whine about 3d quality are the .5% of consumers called "hardcore gamers" |
| 15:50.30 | DEFCON_ | or chineese |
| 15:50.34 | Maloeran | '97? Ah, '92 would have been perfect! You could buy games like Raptor on the shelves, software that I wrote a "clone" of in 3 days in a rush for fun |
| 15:50.47 | DEFCON_ | hahaaa |
| 15:50.57 | ``Erik | yeah |
| 15:51.05 | DEFCON_ | kill that market :) |
| 15:51.09 | ``Erik | I remember the days when you could have something fun and kinda impressive in a day or two in asm |
| 15:51.30 | DEFCON_ | those times are over |
| 15:51.32 | DEFCON_ | :( |
| 15:51.38 | ``Erik | the languages haven't kept pace with the expectations :( thus my renewed interest in lithp |
| 15:51.56 | Maloeran | Well Erik, if you get some good idea for a fun project, I could use something much lighter than CFD to relax my mind on |
| 15:52.23 | ``Erik | I remember when I was dorking with an fps, getting a reasonably nifty algorithm from aav and coding it in scheme at 'good' framerates in an hour or two |
| 15:52.39 | DEFCON_ | http://lithp-systems.websystems.nl/ ? |
| 15:53.02 | ``Erik | well, I have a few fun ideas, but they tend to be revolving around capitolizing on web based things these days |
| 15:53.50 | DEFCON_ | i'm starting to dislike this channel |
| 15:53.51 | ``Erik | low fruit markets need trivial delivery and upgrade paths, and the web shit offers that... and I'd like to make my living working in my basement in my underwear O.o :D |
| 15:53.59 | Maloeran | How so, DEFCON_? |
| 15:54.02 | DEFCON_ | u guys make me feel dumb |
| 15:54.02 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:54.02 | ``Erik | cuz I said web? :D or capitolize? |
| 15:54.24 | ``Erik | heh, sorry, got a couple heavy hitting geeks going... |
| 15:54.30 | DEFCON_ | true :) |
| 15:54.37 | ``Erik | were you here when starseeker was talking provability theory? |
| 15:54.39 | DEFCON_ | few of the best here |
| 15:55.00 | Maloeran | Eh well, we may have more experience too, I vaguely remember you were younger |
| 15:55.16 | DEFCON_ | at the end of my college, i had 93% on mathematics and 96% on software |
| 15:55.24 | DEFCON_ | and u guys make me feel dumb |
| 15:55.24 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 15:55.43 | DEFCON_ | i'm only 23 yo now :) |
| 15:55.45 | ``Erik | the cs/math/physics in college was a cakewalk |
| 15:55.53 | DEFCON_ | true |
| 15:55.57 | Maloeran | Erik started coding before I was born, I'm 24 |
| 15:56.06 | DEFCON_ | true :) |
| 15:56.06 | ``Erik | summer of '83 I think |
| 15:56.22 | ``Erik | my dad brought home a shiney new coleco adam, and it had a basic interpreter built right in |
| 15:56.22 | Maloeran | Oh darn, I was born first then |
| 15:56.38 | DEFCON_ | haha, i didn't |
| 15:56.49 | ``Erik | and it's not like you could run down to kmart or eb and buy games back then |
| 15:57.06 | DEFCON_ | maybe i should leave vb.net for what it is and set my mind 100% on C |
| 15:57.16 | ``Erik | so my dad ordered a book called "games apples play" or something that was all basic listings for the appleII |
| 15:57.22 | ``Erik | and I started portin' :D |
| 15:57.29 | DEFCON_ | sweet :) |
| 15:57.37 | Maloeran | Defcon, I think that would be great, but don't use EV as learning material :) |
| 15:57.37 | DEFCON_ | i remember my first game |
| 15:57.42 | ``Erik | indeed |
| 15:57.55 | DEFCON_ | no Maloeran, ``Erik told me that before :) |
| 15:57.58 | ``Erik | mal was learning :D |
| 15:58.03 | DEFCON_ | indeed :) |
| 15:58.13 | ``Erik | impressive output for what the architecture and style speaks to |
| 15:58.26 | Maloeran | Mal was also writing code as fast as he could without any planning, I was not *that* bad at the point, if I wanted to |
| 15:58.44 | ``Erik | <-- tends to bog down in the academics of perfection :( |
| 15:59.31 | DEFCON_ | haha :) |
| 15:59.38 | ``Erik | and in honing that art, I've become adept at creating some of the ugliest crap ever :D |
| 15:59.47 | ``Erik | I mean, look what I did to twingys libtie last night |
| 15:59.58 | DEFCON_ | what? |
| 16:00.18 | DEFCON_ | btw: u should sleep at night |
| 16:00.18 | ``Erik | heh, lemme find the URL with diffs |
| 16:00.20 | DEFCON_ | k |
| 16:00.32 | ``Erik | last night being around 5:30pm |
| 16:00.41 | DEFCON_ | ohw |
| 16:00.44 | DEFCON_ | ok then |
| 16:00.46 | ``Erik | http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ |
| 16:01.24 | DEFCON_ | what should i see? |
| 16:01.43 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:02.09 | ``Erik | preprocessor symbol manging to permit multiple execution paths in the same binary object from the same source code |
| 16:02.10 | Maloeran | Degenerate triangles? I had to filter out these as well |
| 16:02.43 | PrezKennedy | Do degenerate triangles have 4 sides? |
| 16:02.48 | ``Erik | two copies of libtie now exist in libtie.so, one built for float and one for double... and it "just kinda picks the right one" |
| 16:02.59 | DEFCON_ | ah |
| 16:03.11 | DEFCON_ | anyway, i'm going home now, search a decend C compiler |
| 16:03.19 | ``Erik | we mostly use gcc |
| 16:03.23 | DEFCON_ | k |
| 16:03.23 | DEFCON_ | tnx |
| 16:03.24 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 16:03.31 | DEFCON_ | i'll c you guys tomorrow |
| 16:03.35 | DEFCON_ | maybe this evening |
| 16:03.37 | ``Erik | it's even available on windows as "cygwin" or "msys" or "mingw32" or "djgpp" |
| 16:03.43 | Maloeran | See you later, defcon, it was nice to se you again |
| 16:03.50 | DEFCON_ | it sure was Maloeran |
| 16:03.50 | Maloeran | see* too |
| 16:03.53 | DEFCON_ | :) |
| 16:04.18 | ``Erik | also; |
| 16:05.03 | Maloeran | Oh. :) |
| 16:05.12 | Maloeran | So Erik, any development on your fun projects? I really need something else than work these days |
| 16:05.19 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:05.24 | DEFCON_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:05.24 | DEFCON_ | $100 worth of heroine, a dozen bags |
| 16:05.29 | DEFCON_ | = jab ? |
| 16:05.30 | DEFCON_ | lol |
| 16:05.31 | DEFCON_ | cya |
| 16:05.40 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/ajax/hi.html |
| 16:05.54 | ``Erik | the tiniest kernel of a seed of an idea there |
| 16:06.16 | ``Erik | start typing a word (english) |
| 16:06.49 | Maloeran | I see.. |
| 16:07.05 | Maloeran | Well, it's something I wouldn't know how to do with my html 3.1 |
| 16:07.07 | ``Erik | fun, huh? :D |
| 16:08.02 | ``Erik | the php for that almost looks lisp-like, too |
| 16:08.05 | Maloeran | Does it connect to some database? I don't suppose it's all client side with a huge dictionnary, as Javascript would be |
| 16:08.58 | ``Erik | no |
| 16:09.02 | ``Erik | um |
| 16:09.05 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:09.10 | ``Erik | it's ugly right now |
| 16:09.47 | ``Erik | the php has all of /usr/share/dict/words stored in an array and does map and filter operations on it... |
| 16:10.14 | Maloeran | Ah, okay |
| 16:10.24 | ``Erik | my next step I think is to get a persistant lisp environment running, build the list into a global suffix tree, then the request simple walks the existing tree |
| 16:11.31 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (Makefile.am fbserv_obj_win32.c): looks like the windows build is using the real fbserv_obj.c file now, no longer need the fbserv_obj_win32.c empty stub |
| 16:11.35 | ``Erik | I kinda want to avoid an rdbms |
| 16:14.48 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.dsp: let vc6 try to use the fbserv_obj.c file too instead of the empty stub |
| 16:28.44 | brlcad | Maloeran: a new cracked glass algorithm in opengl for bzflag (responding to 'something else than work these days') :) |
| 16:29.06 | ``Erik | ooh, bzbots! |
| 16:29.18 | brlcad | bzbots are almost done |
| 16:29.32 | ``Erik | the interface? cuz there's always room for new ai's :D |
| 16:29.41 | brlcad | yeah, the interface |
| 16:29.57 | brlcad | that was one of our GSoC projects that I mentored heavily |
| 16:30.16 | ``Erik | think there'll be an issue with people unleashing bots on player servers? or will the server admins be diligent enough? |
| 16:30.47 | ``Erik | I know back in quakeworld, that was a "problem", and well behaved bots had a command to remove them |
| 16:30.47 | brlcad | we now have a programmable interface to the clients, allows pretty much any language |
| 16:31.00 | brlcad | not any more of a problem than we already have |
| 16:31.40 | brlcad | the bots already identify themselves as such so some measures are easily taken to allow server ops to say whether they want them or not, how many, etc |
| 16:32.06 | brlcad | if someone wants to be malicious, they can sure find a way, but then that's not limited to bots |
| 16:32.52 | brlcad | our interface is now pretty much "complaint" with the Robocode interfacd |
| 16:33.07 | brlcad | save for the conversions that were needed to make it work with 3D instead of just 2D |
| 16:34.01 | brlcad | (e.g. they had "width" and "height" for map dimensions.. height in 3D is something else, so we changed it to mean Z and added a length/depth function) |
| 16:34.45 | ``Erik | right, we talked about that at the bowling alley |
| 16:35.04 | brlcad | there's a generic textual interface where you can connect to a port and issue commands (from any code/language/program), or you can use the C++ Robocode layer, or you can use a higher level scripting language (presently only Python is hooked in) |
| 16:35.08 | brlcad | yeah |
| 18:51.20 | prasad_ | whoa new op |
| 18:51.48 | prasad_ | dr. mike's email addy should be the same right? |
| 18:54.00 | ``Erik | should be |
| 19:00.14 | prasad_ | ``Erik: know if he finished his 2nd phd? |
| 19:00.21 | prasad_ | was on population dynamics |
| 19:00.33 | ``Erik | um, he was still working on the thesis last I heard |
| 19:00.56 | ``Erik | he had most of the data, he just had to write it up |
| 19:01.31 | prasad_ | that was when i was still working there :\ |
| 19:01.42 | ``Erik | yeah, procrastination is grand :D |
| 19:01.56 | ``Erik | I d'no if he's actually worked on it |
| 19:02.30 | Maloeran | Oh, prasad_ is back among the #brlcad population :) |
| 19:02.47 | prasad_ | hey mal |
| 19:02.56 | prasad_ | how's progress on real time rt? |
| 19:02.59 | ``Erik | wouldn't blame him if he didn't, I mean, job with a new exciting area, hell of a commute, wife and two kids... I can't imagine him sitting around bored |
| 19:03.14 | Maloeran | And I just realized I have no idea whatsoever if there's a difference between "among" and "amongst" |
| 19:03.39 | Maloeran | prasad_, I have been on computational fluid dynamics or in Australia lately, but Mark from Survice is supposed to talk with Disney soon |
| 19:03.59 | prasad_ | pixar? |
| 19:04.16 | prasad_ | following the footsteps of hiro nakamura? :P |
| 19:04.16 | Maloeran | Yes, for Renderman probably |
| 19:04.32 | prasad_ | masi oka did fluid dynamics for pixar |
| 19:04.36 | prasad_ | before he joined heroes |
| 19:04.46 | Maloeran | Oh, the CFD and Disney are unrelated |
| 19:04.51 | prasad_ | i'll be expecting mal to be in heroes season 4 |
| 19:04.52 | prasad_ | ;) |
| 19:05.11 | prasad_ | oh booo :( |
| 19:05.25 | ``Erik | (disney is a major reason the current us copyright laws are so fucked up... the "mickeymouse" laws) |
| 19:05.26 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:05.33 | prasad_ | so what happened with ur ray tracer? |
| 19:05.37 | prasad_ | is it open sourced now? |
| 19:05.43 | ``Erik | "ur"? I should backhand you, boy |
| 19:06.12 | Maloeran | Not yet, I think Mark want to try to get something from Disney and probably otherrs first |
| 19:06.20 | Maloeran | others* |
| 19:06.23 | ``Erik | (rt->disney, cfd->gvt) |
| 19:07.47 | ``Erik | jjuusstt ttuurrnn ooffff eecchhoo |
| 19:08.53 | prasad_ | (flash intensive) u guys seen this? |
| 19:08.53 | prasad_ | http://www.iedvigilance.com/index_fl.html |
| 19:09.16 | ``Erik | buy a mac, save the 64b linux for the server room :D |
| 19:09.19 | prasad_ | crysis mod for ied detection training |
| 19:10.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:12.29 | ``Erik | add up the bytes consumed, iterations per second and cache damage from doing that... :) or try it and see if it's faster O.o |
| 19:14.43 | Maloeran | It's technically faster, but I think I should begin to compromise my optimisation principles... when anhiliating code readability for a 0.2% gain |
| 19:17.58 | ``Erik | all design tradeoffs *shrug* |
| 19:18.36 | brlcad | Maloeran: there's not really a difference (among vs amongst), pretty interchangable |
| 19:18.49 | Maloeran | All right, thanks brlcad |
| 19:19.01 | brlcad | there's probably a diff with the brits, but sans st is more common in the US |
| 19:19.07 | ``Erik | m-w lists amongst as a variant of among |
| 19:19.20 | brlcad | same with while and whilest |
| 19:19.38 | ``Erik | my dad tends to use the -st forms O.o it's annoying :D |
| 19:19.41 | brlcad | just an older english form |
| 19:19.55 | Maloeran | *nods* Okay |
| 19:20.21 | archivist | us brits use the whole words |
| 19:20.55 | alex_joni | archivist: and sometimes even the correct form of them |
| 19:21.01 | brlcad | prasad_: what's the point of the link? |
| 19:21.02 | ``Erik | you brits and your extra letters and wrong letters |
| 19:21.11 | brlcad | the ied description? |
| 19:21.57 | archivist | you yanks and spelin /me blames Dewey |
| 19:22.07 | ``Erik | http://dag.wieers.com/personal/docs/spelling.txt <-- american brilliance to FIX that damn nasty language *cough* er, wait, no, wait a minute O:-) |
| 19:22.21 | brlcad | the screen rotation on the ied explosion is kinda lame |
| 19:24.52 | ``Erik | japanese is similar, extremely phoenetic |
| 19:24.53 | brlcad | you learn the alphabet and you can properly pronounce every word |
| 19:25.11 | ``Erik | and generally monotonal in enunciation |
| 19:25.17 | brlcad | yeah, cept there's only 28 or so letters in spanish :) |
| 19:25.35 | ``Erik | hehehe, but there're fewer SOUNDS in japanese |
| 19:25.54 | brlcad | just a lot of grunting and bowing |
| 19:26.05 | brlcad | haigh! |
| 19:26.06 | ``Erik | ano baka kuso ttare |
| 19:26.32 | ``Erik | actually, that's "hai", two letters, see? |
| 19:26.33 | brlcad | Maloeran: all the romantic langs are *really* similar |
| 19:26.35 | Maloeran | A french speaking person can actually understand quite a bit of written spanish |
| 19:26.57 | alex_joni | brlcad: romanic |
| 19:27.02 | brlcad | french, spanish, portuguese, italian .. I can get the gist in any of them |
| 19:27.15 | ``Erik | any romance language can understand a chunk of other romance languages, just like any germanic language can understand chunks of other toutonic languages *shrug* |
| 19:27.30 | ``Erik | and english is a horrible train wreck combining the two *cough* O:-) |
| 19:27.37 | brlcad | alex_joni: actually "romance" iirc, hence romantic fits :) |
| 19:27.46 | prasad_ | brlcad: reminded me of SLAD :P |
| 19:27.57 | prasad_ | then again slad doesnt do training |
| 19:27.58 | prasad_ | :\ |
| 19:28.15 | alex_joni | brlcad: they are actually derived from latin |
| 19:28.22 | ``Erik | they train you to be ineffective, unhappy, and ... :D O:-) |
| 19:28.40 | prasad_ | hehe |
| 19:28.59 | alex_joni | not sure why they are called "romance".. we call tehm romanic languages (after the roman (e.g. rome) people) |
| 19:29.14 | alex_joni | bbl |
| 19:29.45 | ``Erik | the womans? like naughtius maximus? biggus dickus? |
| 19:31.00 | brlcad | alex_joni: you could probably find that etimology a little easier, but I'm pretty sure romance is more prevalent (though admittedly nothing to back that up atm) |
| 19:31.14 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages ;-) |
| 19:31.28 | ``Erik | I've always heard "romance language" to describe the latin based family |
| 19:32.07 | brlcad | probably something useful in the wiki footnotes, but I don't really care *that* much :) |
| 19:32.17 | ``Erik | brlcad, any more activity with migration.txt ? |
| 19:43.01 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 19:43.35 | ``Erik | it looks like just netowrking performnace testing, then data migration and testing... I d'no what all is rigged up on that, so I don't want to get my fingers in it |
| 19:43.48 | brlcad | ooh, server migration.txt... |
| 19:43.52 | brlcad | was thinking cad |
| 19:43.59 | ``Erik | dot org, yes :D |
| 19:44.51 | brlcad | only activity in the past week was me paying the bill, so no not recently :) |
| 19:45.03 | brlcad | had a couple big distractions come up past two weekends |
| 19:45.09 | ``Erik | <-- thinkin' he's at the point where he'd be best as 'consultative assistance' if anything, but eager to inflict horrible sins of humanity on the new machines config... :D |
| 19:45.21 | ``Erik | sins against humanity, rather |
| 19:45.42 | brlcad | you're welcome to test the net performance, dunno if you have any tools in mind |
| 19:46.01 | brlcad | i was going to do some ttcp'ing on old and new for starters |
| 19:46.24 | brlcad | to something that has more bandwidth |
| 19:46.28 | ``Erik | that was my notion, but I'm not sure on the location, and doubt I have an appropriate bounce host that's fast enough |
| 19:47.30 | brlcad | it's down in florida, I was thinking to/from cad or a hopkins host I can get to on internet2 |
| 19:47.58 | brlcad | anything on > 100MBit line should do the trick |
| 19:48.02 | ``Erik | heavy hitting on cad might get perimeter notice |
| 19:48.44 | brlcad | done it before to test cad's performance, which this still does effectively |
| 19:48.44 | ``Erik | and the uni server I have is fiber capped at 20mbps (last I heard) and heavily overburdened (due to cheap hicks running the finance side) |
| 19:54.51 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am sh/make_dmg.sh sh/make_pkg.sh sh/make_tar.sh): |
| 19:54.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: update the helper build scripts to the new version variables now that MAJOR_, |
| 19:54.55 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: MINOR_, and PATCH_ are no longer being individually subst'd. simplify them to |
| 19:54.57 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: only require a single version number in triplet form instead of separated out |
| 19:55.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: individually (only mac make_pkg script needed it broken up anyways). |
| 20:04.52 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487440C.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 20:09.52 | ``Erik | wow, beer thirty already O.o |
| 20:56.27 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-65-148.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 21:17.33 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c): removal of the "bit hack" |
| 21:46.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: remove garbage in preprocessor line |
| 21:47.50 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/library/panedwindow.tcl: For the moment catch the " identify " commands. Every now and then they like to make noise. |
| 21:49.26 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add a catch around utility plugin creation. |
| 21:53.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Do a recursive copy of the bin dir. |
| 21:58.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/ (tienet.h tienet_master.c): minimize use of tie.h |
| 21:59.43 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copy visual studio redist files. |
| 21:59.51 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie_struct.h: shuffle and pad the tie_s struct for slightly safer use outside of the dual-path environment... |
| 22:01.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (60 files in 60 dirs): Mods to NOT treat wide chars as a built-in type. |
| 22:35.29 | *** join/#brlcad kantor (n=bird@82.78.175.164) | |
| 22:36.17 | kantor | hi, I have downloaded BRL-CAD for Linux the latest version in binary form but I can't fin the main executable brlcad |
| 22:36.33 | kantor | is not in the bin directory of BRL-CAD |
| 22:44.27 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: bah, convert the du size to megabytes for hdiutil, otherwise just caps out at a gb |
| 22:44.37 | brlcad | kantor: there's not a main "brlcad" executable |
| 22:44.44 | brlcad | BRL-CAD is a suite of tools that work together |
| 22:45.07 | brlcad | 'mged' is the biggest of them, a quasi-unifying gui interface to a lot of the functionality |
| 22:45.34 | brlcad | archer is another similar interface, albeit more a prototype under development |
| 22:48.46 | kantor | thanks |
| 22:48.51 | brlcad | there are pretty extensive tutorials on the website for mged |
| 22:49.15 | brlcad | just follow down the Documents list |
| 22:49.44 | kantor | ok |
| 22:50.20 | kantor | to work with BRL-CAD you must to use the terminal, no ? |
| 22:51.11 | louipc | archer doesn't like my Tcl version :/ |
| 22:52.23 | louipc | 8.5b2 |
| 22:53.40 | louipc | kantor: yeah the command line is essential |
| 22:53.53 | brlcad | but not "necessary" :) |
| 22:55.10 | brlcad | kantor: you should be able to edit the archer script and change the tclsh to a btclsh (or /usr/brlcad/bin/btclsh if you don't want to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path) |
| 22:55.40 | brlcad | fyi, archer's not really meant to be used by users -- it's prototype for devs |
| 22:56.00 | brlcad | much more graphically driven |
| 22:59.57 | kantor | brlcad, you are one of the developers ? |
| 23:22.44 | brlcad | kantor: yep |
| 23:23.07 | brlcad | if you have any questions, particularly if you're interested in getting into brl-cad development, please let me know :) |
| 23:23.21 | brlcad | new devs eagerly welcome ;) |
| 23:25.58 | kantor | thanks ;-) I must to think about that (but it is a good idea), the only problem is that I'm developing two projects and it's hard to keep up . . . |
| 23:26.10 | kantor | I think you know that if you are a developer |
| 23:27.56 | brlcad | (emphatically) |
| 23:29.34 | kantor | I can find you here every day, no ? brlcad |
| 23:30.20 | brlcad | yeah, pretty much |
| 23:30.50 | brlcad | i live in here .. maybe a few hours lag if I'm coding away or have gone to workout or something |
| 23:31.11 | brlcad | so what projects do you work on? |
| 23:31.13 | louipc | hmm looks like it's libblt that doesn't like my Tcl |
| 23:36.59 | kantor | brlcad, one is http://sourceforge.net/projects/odman/ and the other is aping http://directory.fsf.org/project/aping/ |
| 23:38.23 | louipc | hmmm |
| 23:38.51 | brlcad | I think I've seen aping before |
| 23:39.35 | kantor | where ? I mean this one ? |
| 23:40.50 | brlcad | yeah, in the fsf directory |
| 23:41.11 | brlcad | you do know that the original architect of brl-cad was the guy that first wrote ping? |
| 23:41.30 | brlcad | mike muuss |
| 23:42.07 | kantor | yes |
| 23:42.10 | kantor | mike muuss |
| 23:43.25 | kantor | I saw the pictures from the funeral of Mike |
| 23:44.04 | brlcad | yeah, chris put those up -- rather eerie |
| 23:44.12 | brlcad | didn't really look like him |
| 23:44.19 | kantor | and I read that the original ping program was written in one day, or night something like that |
| 23:44.26 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:44.43 | kantor | I think Mike was a great programmer |
| 23:44.46 | brlcad | http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/ping.html |
| 23:45.52 | brlcad | he was rather brilliant actually, and not just in programming |
| 23:46.23 | brlcad | he was nearly single-handedly the reason why I started working on brl-cad so many years ago |
| 23:46.52 | brlcad | exceptionally charismatic and insightful guy |
| 23:46.59 | kantor | Chris was one of hes best friend, no ? |
| 23:47.10 | brlcad | yeah |
| 23:47.39 | kantor | yes and that was my motivation too to write aping |
| 23:49.34 | brlcad | i was looking to recombine all of the various ping sources back into one official maintainership again a year or so ago, I think that's when I ran across aping |
| 23:50.13 | brlcad | as there's a windows variant with special options as well as maybe 2 or 3 significant *nix C variants |
| 23:50.34 | brlcad | all with nearly 80% overlap |
| 23:52.42 | kantor | unfortunately the development of aping was a little interrupted in the last 2-3 months . . . |
| 23:53.22 | kantor | whatever |
| 23:53.31 | kantor | I'm going now |
| 23:53.42 | kantor | bye |
| 23:53.52 | kantor | see you latter, alligator ! |
| 23:53.53 | kantor | :) |
| 23:54.47 | louipc | erk the last blt release was in 2002? |
| 00:00.54 | brlcad | louipc: yeah, blt is kinda stale |
| 00:01.11 | brlcad | but it was (apparently) really easy way to get pretty shiny buttons in tcl that looked modern |
| 00:05.21 | louipc | we had shiny things back then |
| 01:33.13 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 02:12.09 | starseeker | grr. Anybody in here with an AMD64 system running Gentoo? |
| 02:58.04 | yukonbob | starseeker: hey :) |
| 03:10.33 | starseeker | howdy :-) |
| 03:18.09 | yukonbob | what's shaking? Hows the Gentoo? |
| 03:30.53 | Maloeran | starseeker, I do |
| 05:04.56 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: go ahead and have it use draw instead of e so it's clear what's going on to new users |
| 05:18.03 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 05:28.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: let tcl and tk know where they're coming from, and don't cache the results of tclConfig.sh or tkConfig.sh so that Tcl's subconfigure will detect properly itself when we're compiling tcl/tk |
| 05:31.29 | yukonbob | brlcad: how long have you been using autoconf et al. |
| 05:31.30 | yukonbob | ? |
| 07:49.15 | *** join/#brlcad DEFCON_ (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) | |
| 07:49.26 | DEFCON_ | morning all |
| 07:49.33 | DEFCON_ | happy hacking today |
| 08:05.36 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 08:19.47 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 12:29.07 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 12:45.42 | starseeker | yukonbob: Heh, sorry - playing IRC tag |
| 12:47.04 | starseeker | Maloeran: Great! Do you think you could do me a favor and see if the latest ebuild works on AMD64 now that I've got the eclass included? http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197 |
| 13:34.50 | brlcad | yukonbob: as a user or a developer? |
| 13:36.52 | brlcad | as a dev, seven years or so I suppose |
| 13:37.00 | brlcad | as a user, much longer |
| 13:43.06 | alex_joni | http://xkcd.com/353/ |
| 13:45.00 | DEFCON_ | lol :) |
| 13:45.13 | DEFCON_ | import Milionair .. |
| 13:45.22 | ``Erik | looks like I got deep into autoconf in '98 |
| 13:48.36 | alex_joni | DEFCON_: ImportError: No module named Milionair |
| 13:48.38 | alex_joni | >>> |
| 13:59.29 | DEFCON_ | bummer :( |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 15:06.04 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:06.13 | ``Erik | so we can start up the 7.12.0 release? :D |
| 15:17.57 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 15:34.24 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/ (8 files): upgrade to the updated version |
| 15:34.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: always build libtienet |
| 15:39.01 | *** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you | |
| 16:02.55 | DEFCON_ | cyyaaa |
| 16:44.51 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548747E2.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 16:45.16 | brlcad | ``Erik: += doesn't work reliably with pre automake 1.8 (and 1.6 is the min baseline) |
| 16:45.27 | ``Erik | bleh |
| 16:45.28 | brlcad | that's why it's not used anywhere |
| 16:45.44 | ``Erik | I'll back it out on my next change to that file |
| 16:46.07 | ``Erik | apple should get their ass in gear so we can give up that archaic version |
| 16:46.35 | brlcad | 10.5 updates it to 1.10 |
| 16:47.25 | brlcad | I had a thread on the apple mailing list about it, they apparently couldn't update the version before a major update |
| 16:47.44 | ``Erik | then they shoulda updated it with, like, 10.2 O.o :D |
| 16:47.59 | brlcad | because the autotools were shipped as part of the base OS, not part of the dev tools |
| 16:48.11 | brlcad | with 10.5, they supposedly broke them out proper |
| 16:49.06 | brlcad | they coulda, but it was only like 1.7 when 10.2 came out, and it'd "just" released |
| 16:50.14 | brlcad | so when it was dire (by 10.4 release), they couldn't do anything about it until the next major |
| 16:50.39 | brlcad | pretty stupid, but there it is |
| 16:54.08 | ``Erik | *shrug* autotools version is a burden entirely on the developers, do you choose fugly automake files, or make the developer upgrade automake... I personally favor the latter :D |
| 16:54.13 | ``Erik | are you in today? |
| 16:56.11 | ``Erik | aight |
| 16:58.51 | brlcad | so long as you cross-platform test it and it behaves when sdl/python aren't installed |
| 16:59.04 | ``Erik | ayup, I'm working on the SDL/python bit right now |
| 16:59.24 | brlcad | there is some testing in there already "does it work" |
| 16:59.47 | brlcad | even better would be to rip out the python part and change the sdl part to libdm :) |
| 17:01.11 | ``Erik | is libdm fast enough? heh |
| 17:02.14 | ``Erik | and does it handle key and mouse events? O.o |
| 17:04.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: AC_DEFINEs for python and SDL |
| 17:17.46 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: add libutil to the "always compile" list. Back out the += for those using automake 1.6. |
| 17:18.58 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (display.c display.h): workaround for lack of SDL |
| 17:20.11 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (7 files): merge in the updated libutil stuff (introduces capability duplication for now, but no symbol conflicts) |
| 17:25.35 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (6 files): decorate the new sources |
| 17:25.40 | brlcad | fast enough? sure, all dm does is create the context and give hooks for a doing display updates -- doesn't get much lower overhead |
| 17:26.03 | brlcad | libfb is the one that does buffer processing and has a communications overhead for remote displays |
| 17:26.56 | brlcad | dm does the wireframe display in mged, not the raytrace windows |
| 17:39.04 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: rename libutil to libtieutil, to avoid any possible confusion |
| 18:12.03 | ``Erik | oh, I started seeing the Entries.backup issue recently |
| 18:12.23 | prasad_ | is it snowing there? |
| 18:12.45 | ``Erik | always with the custom ssh ... never the sf friendly one |
| 18:12.46 | ``Erik | yes |
| 18:12.50 | ``Erik | has been for a couple hours |
| 18:13.06 | ``Erik | starting to stick to the asphault and cement :/ |
| 18:23.05 | prasad_ | flurries since morning here |
| 18:50.45 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: always build libtexture. Include the new adrt headers |
| 18:51.52 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (adrt.h adrt_struct.h): Include the new adrt headers |
| 18:53.36 | ``Erik | I thought the phrase was barefoot through ten miles of snow, up hill, both ways |
| 18:53.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtexture/ (23 files): merge in the updated libtexture stuff |
| 18:55.07 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): reflect the libutil->libtieutil change |
| 19:13.35 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (7 files): remove duplication |
| 19:15.41 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtexture/ (9 files): util_math.h -> umath.h |
| 19:36.16 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: make a libtool archive, with SDL deps noted |
| 19:48.51 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16) | |
| 19:49.11 | docelic | yo hey |
| 19:50.53 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/umath.h: common.h doesn't seem to be needed |
| 19:52.10 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/Makefile.am: libtieutil is now a libtool archive |
| 19:54.32 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 6 dirs): libtieutil is now a libtool archive |
| 20:07.13 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548747E2.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 20:19.50 | brlcad | maybe it's paranoid |
| 20:21.42 | ``Erik | mebbe you should point it at an actual block or character device? :D |
| 20:49.38 | Maloeran | Yes right, I'll burn the CD just so I can extract the music from it... :) |
| 21:05.44 | alex_joni | Maloeran: did you try to loopmount it? |
| 21:24.54 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (21 files): merge in updated librender |
| 21:26.29 | yukonbob | ok -- so what's the latest release -- does this new /topic mean that 7.12.0 is tagged/released, and I can start building it? |
| 21:29.04 | ``Erik | no, heh |
| 21:29.21 | yukonbob | hey ``Erik |
| 21:29.31 | ``Erik | 'sup? |
| 21:30.14 | yukonbob | posting SOAP stories for a near-due website, trying to figure out netbsd audio internals, drinking coffee, eating M&Ms -- the usual |
| 21:30.41 | yukonbob | yourself? |
| 21:31.44 | ``Erik | heh, generating a stream of cia messages :D |
| 21:31.52 | yukonbob | I see :) |
| 21:32.34 | yukonbob | so, what's the status of releases here -- is the flurry of posts + the new topic applied to .10, .11(?), or 12 -- what's the latest stable? |
| 21:39.11 | *** join/#brlcad curious (n=curious@gjv234.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) | |
| 21:40.54 | ``Erik | um, we use odds to annotate a development snapshot and evens for releases |
| 21:41.07 | ``Erik | at least in the minor and patch levels |
| 21:41.27 | ``Erik | like the linux kernel |
| 21:42.07 | ``Erik | the flurry of cia lines I'm generating are not release related, they're in support of an internal project... :) |
| 21:42.26 | ``Erik | which I hope to use as an excuse to get the adrt shtuff usable for joe blow |
| 21:53.27 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h: redefine the plane method |
| 21:53.45 | yukonbob | ``Erik: I've got 7.10.4 installed, is that latest? |
| 21:57.57 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-65-3.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 22:01.20 | ``Erik | yes |
| 22:02.19 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (15 files in 10 dirs): include path shtuff |
| 22:46.24 | PrezKennedy | snow day! |
| 23:06.54 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:28.40 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 23:45.55 | ``Erik | I fucking hate snow. |
| 01:08.07 | louipc | was archer supposed to work in linux on 7.10.4? |
| 01:13.39 | louipc | hmm nothing in NEWS I guess not |
| 01:18.09 | ``Erik | it's a notional prototype, there's no active development in that direction |
| 01:20.10 | louipc | ah. so no intent to fully develop and support it? |
| 01:53.26 | ``Erik | don't think so *shrug* |
| 02:31.42 | brlcad | louipc: if developers step up to work on it, sure |
| 02:32.15 | brlcad | am *I* going to work on it -- not directly more than to get it working (which I did) or to help someone else work on it |
| 02:32.29 | brlcad | Bob's certainly interested in working on it, and has been making progress in that area |
| 02:32.47 | brlcad | archer is very closely tied to mged so things done for one often affect the other regardless |
| 02:32.53 | louipc | I'd like to work on something but I'm finding it all too overwhelming to find something that I can begin to understand... |
| 02:34.02 | louipc | ah |
| 02:34.54 | yukonbob | brlcad: briefly, can you tell me what bwish is supposed to do? It's got some supporting libs linked in to give it some X functionality? |
| 02:35.08 | louipc | yukonbob: looks like it's mged's shell |
| 02:35.41 | yukonbob | louipc: well -- it's not _strictly_ necessary because I stripped it from my builds... |
| 02:35.46 | louipc | I was playing around with it when I was trying to get archer working :/ |
| 02:35.53 | louipc | hmm |
| 02:36.17 | louipc | oh yeah and it opens up a little window |
| 02:36.18 | yukonbob | I know it's a dependency of archer -- from CIA postings here... |
| 02:36.22 | louipc | which is blank... |
| 02:36.48 | yukonbob | *wish == WIndowing SHell -> for Tk. |
| 02:37.08 | louipc | brlcad-wish? |
| 02:37.25 | louipc | heh yep wish does the same little window |
| 02:37.42 | louipc | but doesn't have mged commands |
| 02:41.15 | yukonbob | button .b; .b configure -text bye -command {puts "ok, bye.";exit}; pack .b |
| 02:43.52 | brlcad | louipc: well I'd be glad to help get you started on anything that interests you |
| 02:44.09 | brlcad | what are your constraints/interests? |
| 02:44.49 | brlcad | yukonbob: bob and I have actually been talking recently quite a bit about bwish/btclsh and their future, related to some of the stuff you and I talked about a while back |
| 02:45.01 | brlcad | bwish is to wish as btclsh is to tclsh |
| 02:45.27 | brlcad | preloads the brlcad libraries and sets up the auto_path with all of our various extensions |
| 02:46.11 | brlcad | it was only very recently made a dependency of archer, part of making it consistent with the other brl-cad tools that use btclsh/bwish |
| 02:46.18 | yukonbob | nice -- /me had got the lib to load as a [package require foo], but hadn't prefaced the routines w/ proper Tcl glue... |
| 02:47.07 | brlcad | we actually got it working so that btclsh can eventually go away |
| 02:47.19 | brlcad | found a way to reliaby generate the tclIndex files prior to install |
| 02:47.38 | yukonbob | that was my ultimate goal -- no more btclsh, bwish, just a package -- removes some cruft from the build/install... |
| 02:47.44 | yukonbob | mkIndex? |
| 02:48.26 | brlcad | more than that, have to package require Itcl and Iwidgets for it to pick up all the right symbols |
| 02:48.43 | brlcad | and to load itcl *prior* to install, is a bit of a trick sometimes |
| 02:49.17 | brlcad | that's one of the things btclsh takes care of, setting up an auto_path that works whether installed or not |
| 02:50.01 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 02:50.03 | brlcad | but I think I see a way to have them generate properly now with a fair bit of configure script detecting |
| 02:50.26 | Twingy | foshizzle |
| 02:50.32 | brlcad | what up g |
| 02:50.53 | Twingy | school and autopilot stuff |
| 02:51.19 | Twingy | I need to get my hpc account reactivated |
| 02:51.21 | brlcad | tea to the double you in G to the why |
| 02:51.42 | Twingy | they own the license for simulink |
| 02:53.06 | brlcad | yukonbob: as for loading the brl-cad libs, that ones a fair bit more work -- there are fortunately *_Init() routines for all of the libs (so you can load the lib), but have to generate the pkgIndex.tcl files with proper loads |
| 02:53.36 | yukonbob | brlcad: I've not browsed the source -- do you know how many libs you're talking about? |
| 02:54.34 | brlcad | yukonbob: look at src/bwish/main.c .. the Cad_AppInit() shows the bulk of what btclsh provides including the various libs |
| 02:54.47 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 02:54.54 | yukonbob | ;), rather |
| 02:55.12 | brlcad | at a glance, it's dm, fb, bn, bu, rt |
| 02:55.18 | brlcad | for the cad libs |
| 02:56.27 | brlcad | then tcl, tk, itcl, itk, iwidgets, and blt for the tcl libs |
| 02:56.42 | brlcad | though some of those are optional for btclsh (bwish uses them all) |
| 02:58.27 | yukonbob | what I was thinking of is just using wish/tclsh, and including the a wrapper for the non-tcl components, or ea. non-tcl lib independently, so one could: tclsh, % package require itk; package require iwidgets... etc. and [package require brllib], which would have dm, fb, bn, etc. |
| 02:58.27 | brlcad | so the first step, which I think I see how to do now, is to get the compilation using tclsh instead of btclsh during compilation |
| 02:59.03 | brlcad | yeah, that would be the ultimate goal |
| 02:59.55 | brlcad | getting that to work is going to be interesting, but seems doable if the indexes can be generated properly |
| 03:00.23 | yukonbob | brlcad: I may be naive, but I don't think that's going to be a big deal. |
| 03:00.24 | brlcad | like I said, the harder problem is making it so package require *anything* actually works before *anything* is installed |
| 03:01.16 | brlcad | oh, I forgot -- the other thing that btclsh provides which tclsh doesn't provide (and is EXCEPTIONALLY annoying when you try to go back to it) is cursor control |
| 03:01.25 | yukonbob | brlcad: well, there's "load /path/to/lib" -- which is what fooIndex's are all about wrapping... |
| 03:02.00 | yukonbob | brlcad: ah -- there's a readline-enabled tclsh... could look at it to see what's going on... |
| 03:02.00 | brlcad | btclsh actually has limited command-line editing capabilities, e.g. ctrl-a takes you to beginning of line, ctrl-e, meta-w, etc all work |
| 03:03.03 | brlcad | yukonbob: sure, load /path/to/lib in leu of package require .. but then that's not really portable and would you want to bloat all the scripts we might possibly run prior to install? |
| 03:03.36 | brlcad | yukonbob: the command-line editing isn't a major deal -- that's just a minor annoyance; and it's not even cross platform |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | the windows bwish kicks off a whole interactive window thing that has full edit capabilities, for example |
| 03:04.23 | yukonbob | re: load -- just a bootstrapping option... |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | s/bwish/wish/ |
| 03:04.23 | brlcad | hm? |
| 03:04.29 | brlcad | not following |
| 03:06.12 | brlcad | the tcl "load" command at least afaik basically calls the *_Init() routine after doing whatever the equivalent of dlopen() on the library |
| 03:07.21 | yukonbob | moot point -- at this point, there's not even loadable libs ;) |
| 03:07.39 | brlcad | auto_mkindex isn't the problem, that *could* be bootstrapped into the script we run (src/tclscripts/ami.tcl and src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl) |
| 03:07.48 | brlcad | they are loadable |
| 03:07.56 | yukonbob | since when? |
| 03:08.23 | louipc | brlcad: a couple of things I'd like to see solved would be this tcl stuff, I'd also like to make it possible to create sketch objects with text commands... it didn't seem possible last time I tried. I really have to understand mged better though |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | sushi:~ morrison$ tclsh |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | % load /usr/brlcad/lib/libbu.dylib |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | % bu_brlcad_data . |
| 03:09.07 | brlcad | /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.11.0/. |
| 03:09.23 | brlcad | since forever really :) |
| 03:09.58 | brlcad | ever since tcl was adopted, they've been loadable -- like I said, they all have the necessary *_Init() routine that tcl uses |
| 03:10.03 | louipc | I'd like to figure out how to hook other scripting langs into brlcad too |
| 03:10.37 | brlcad | louipc: ooh, improving the sketch primitive would be awesome |
| 03:10.41 | brlcad | and that's fairly isolated |
| 03:10.52 | yukonbob | louipc: swig |
| 03:11.01 | yukonbob | (www.swig.org) |
| 03:11.14 | brlcad | we're a fair ways off from useful swiggability |
| 03:11.26 | brlcad | another thing I was talking to bob (the other bob) just earlier today about |
| 03:11.42 | louipc | hehe |
| 03:12.02 | brlcad | moving the rest of mged's commands from src/mged into src/librt (wdb_obj.c and dg_obj.c) .. it's about 70% complete at this point |
| 03:13.24 | brlcad | louipc: if you want to jump into the sketch prim, lemme know -- the wdb interface is one place that could use work, and then maybe a new command-line "sketch editor" command(s) |
| 03:14.38 | brlcad | yukonbob: what I was saying is that while "load" works, that doesn't solve the problem -- presently, the build system doesn't know what the library name actually is -- it's just a libtool library |
| 03:15.03 | brlcad | libtool manages the entire library creation and installation so that it has the proper name for a given system |
| 03:15.47 | brlcad | and I *really* would hate to have some hacked up case table that says if platformA use .so, if platformB use .dylib, else use .dll, etc |
| 03:16.48 | yukonbob | brlcad: [load mylib[info sharedlibextension]] |
| 03:17.35 | brlcad | hm, that's not bad |
| 03:18.00 | yukonbob | you mean "it's good! Brilliant! I'll have your desk ready immediately, when can you start?" |
| 03:18.09 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 03:18.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:18.44 | brlcad | actually I was going to say "how would that help, though? .. wouldn't want to put that into every tcl script we have" |
| 03:19.29 | louipc | brlcad: yeah that's one of many things I'd like to work on ;) |
| 03:19.32 | yukonbob | I put it in the pkgIndex.tcl for the lib... so [package require foo] will be managed by the single instance for fooIndex.tcl |
| 03:20.16 | yukonbob | eg: |
| 03:20.39 | yukonbob | package ifneeded Expect 5.43.0 [list load [file join $dir ../.. libexpect543[info sharedlibextension]]] |
| 03:21.06 | brlcad | how does it find foo's pkgIndex.tcl ? |
| 03:21.28 | yukonbob | (lib/tcl/expect5.43/pkgIndex.tcl) |
| 03:21.59 | yukonbob | the tcl searchpath tests subdirs, so if you can find tcl, you ought to be able to find anything else... |
| 03:22.35 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl: don't assume /bin/tclsh, ask /usr/bin/env like a good boy |
| 03:22.46 | brlcad | so two scenarios, 1 tcl is already installed, 2 it's sitting in src/other/tcl/library |
| 03:23.23 | brlcad | 1 would entail installing .. which we've not done/finished yet |
| 03:23.38 | yukonbob | 1) you'll use the info in tclConfig.sh |
| 03:24.07 | brlcad | what info? |
| 03:24.36 | brlcad | if tcl is installed, tclConfig.sh will say that it's library is in /usr/lib or /usr/lib/tcl8.4 or something |
| 03:25.09 | brlcad | we're not yet in that subtree until after we install |
| 03:26.05 | brlcad | that's where the tclcad_auto_path() function came into being as it sets up the necessary (complex) autopaths that are involved even to get just tclsh to work on a package require Itcl |
| 03:27.03 | brlcad | well the second scenario we could deal with by shoving some initialization routine into our sources for tcl, into src/other/tcl/library -- albeit rather ugly, it could probably work |
| 03:27.23 | brlcad | the first scenario was the harder one |
| 03:27.53 | yukonbob | and the problem is what? where to put shared libs? How to find them? |
| 03:27.54 | brlcad | are their environment vars that affect the auto_path? |
| 03:28.32 | brlcad | the problem is package requiring anything that's not yet installed when you're using a system tcl |
| 03:29.12 | brlcad | so say you want to "package require GeometryBrowser" (which is valid) -- it needs to know to look into src/tclscripts/geometree for that |
| 03:30.03 | brlcad | if you run src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl, you'll probably see if fail saying it can't find that package |
| 03:30.21 | brlcad | if you run through btclsh, it succeeds |
| 03:30.34 | brlcad | that's at least the "ideal goal" or some variant of it, but using tclsh still |
| 03:30.59 | brlcad | without modifying the geometree.tcl script, or at worst adding a line maybe |
| 03:31.07 | brlcad | *maybe* |
| 03:31.41 | brlcad | i'm thinking something like: AUTO_PATH=blah/blah/blah tclsh src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl might work |
| 03:31.47 | brlcad | if tcl provides an env-way |
| 03:32.01 | yukonbob | ? [load [pwd]/some/other/dir/libname[info sharelibextension]] |
| 03:32.17 | brlcad | in this instance, there's no lib to load |
| 03:32.23 | brlcad | it's pure tcl |
| 03:32.37 | yukonbob | [source] |
| 03:33.16 | brlcad | but then we're back to modifying every single tcl script that we might possibly want to run |
| 03:33.43 | brlcad | with if statements of some sort "are we running uninstalled, source .. or maybe load, else just do it" |
| 03:34.50 | yukonbob | what if you had a 'helper_for_uninstalled.tcl' that was called when necessary during the build process that had the necessary mechanics -- ie: could take a list of scripts to source, proc to run... |
| 03:35.20 | brlcad | sure, that'd be minimal |
| 03:35.31 | brlcad | that's a great idea actually .. :) |
| 03:35.43 | yukonbob | about my desk... |
| 03:36.11 | brlcad | your desk? |
| 03:36.28 | yukonbob | you know... the one you're getting ready for me? |
| 03:36.40 | brlcad | oh, hah |
| 03:36.49 | brlcad | got it |
| 03:36.51 | brlcad | i think.. ;) |
| 03:37.38 | yukonbob | the mechanics can't be difficult for this, and how many piece of code actually need this functionality -- can't be many? |
| 03:37.43 | brlcad | ~tea yukonbob |
| 03:37.43 | ibot | ACTION realizes it's time for high tea and gets busy in the kitchen. He brings out tea, crumpets, scones and an assortment of delectable goodies and serves them properly to yukonbob and others |
| 03:37.47 | starseeker | yukonbob is buying brlcad's desk? ;-) |
| 03:38.16 | yukonbob | starseeker: no, no no!!! -- I'm getting a job in BRL-CAD headquarters for my Tcl insights... |
| 03:38.26 | starseeker | cool! |
| 03:38.35 | yukonbob | heh -- the rumour is started.. |
| 03:39.00 | yukonbob | uh -- starseeker -- i'm joking, to be clear ;) |
| 03:39.28 | yukonbob | (hard to see your face on irc to know how you reacted ;) |
| 03:39.36 | starseeker | ;-) |
| 03:39.37 | brlcad | yukonbob: if the wrapper is coded up right, it won't matter what scripts |
| 03:40.02 | yukonbob | brlcad: true -- but out of curiousity, what does need to be run pre-installation? |
| 03:40.19 | starseeker | Given all the hobbies brlcad has, making desks wasn't actually totally out of the question :-P |
| 03:40.37 | brlcad | the most critical ones that come to mind at the moment are the ami.tcl and ampi.tcl scripts and mged |
| 03:41.45 | brlcad | I've not made a desk before, but I have made cabinets, step-stools, shelves, and a bookcase that can hold at least twice my body weight |
| 03:42.14 | yukonbob | to test, brlcad quickly cloned self, stood on bookcase... |
| 03:42.17 | brlcad | carpentry used to be a passive hobby past-time |
| 03:42.35 | brlcad | actually had another friend who weighs about as much :) |
| 03:42.57 | starseeker | Nice :-). Carpentry is a very satisfying hobby in terms of immediate rewards |
| 03:43.50 | brlcad | dunno about that "immediate" .. it was relaxing because it really pressured me to "slow down" to get things done artfully |
| 03:43.50 | *** join/#brlcad User731 (n=User731@71-95-182-43.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com) | |
| 03:44.13 | User731 | hello anyone there |
| 03:44.17 | brlcad | nope |
| 03:44.21 | yukonbob | shhh... User731 is here.. |
| 03:44.31 | User731 | lol |
| 03:44.38 | User731 | need help |
| 03:45.08 | yukonbob | :) |
| 03:45.27 | User731 | any 1 know were I can get a crack for mastercam x2 mr1 |
| 03:45.57 | *** kick/#brlcad [User731!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (brlcad) | |
| 03:46.06 | yukonbob | wtf was that? |
| 03:46.33 | brlcad | someone just looking for a serial number |
| 03:46.43 | yukonbob | ah.... |
| 03:47.22 | starseeker | brlcad: I guess I was thinking carpentry is immediate in that you get to see your project take shape as you do it, but you're right it takes time to do it right. When I was young that was always my downfall... |
| 03:49.14 | brlcad | that bookcase I mentioned took me something like 6 months .. |
| 03:49.32 | brlcad | course I crippled/challenged myself from the beginning |
| 03:49.42 | starseeker | No power tools? |
| 03:49.48 | brlcad | started with raw unprocessed lumber |
| 03:49.53 | starseeker | oooo |
| 03:50.11 | starseeker | yeah that'll do it |
| 03:50.16 | brlcad | so I had to shape, cut, sand, and attach each piece one by one |
| 03:50.20 | brlcad | painstaking |
| 03:50.28 | starseeker | What wood did you use? |
| 03:50.37 | brlcad | and design the whole book case as this modular thing |
| 03:51.05 | brlcad | that actually separates into four distint pieces that most anyone can carry individually |
| 03:51.23 | starseeker | Nice! |
| 03:51.23 | brlcad | oh, I was broke back then, it was raw pine |
| 03:51.42 | yukonbob | density, 0.55 |
| 03:51.51 | starseeker | That helps a little - hardwoods are rough on the tools and the muscles... |
| 03:51.55 | brlcad | something like $50 in materials and supplies and $5000 in labor :) |
| 03:52.06 | starseeker | Sounds like grad school :-) |
| 03:52.28 | brlcad | it is sturdy as heck |
| 03:52.32 | starseeker | yukonbob: See what you started? ;-) |
| 03:52.39 | brlcad | hmmm.. i should make a cad model of it! |
| 03:52.58 | yukonbob | starseeker: no -- I'm missing somethig -- what did I start? |
| 03:53.08 | starseeker | brlcad DOES do carpentry |
| 03:53.19 | yukonbob | is this re: desks? |
| 03:53.20 | brlcad | it's roughly 20"x20"x7' |
| 03:53.24 | starseeker | yep |
| 03:53.26 | yukonbob | :) |
| 03:53.29 | yukonbob | lol |
| 03:53.47 | starseeker | 7' tall - no wonder it's modular |
| 03:54.09 | brlcad | three shelves, a top, and a base |
| 03:54.25 | starseeker | how do you connect the units into the whole? |
| 03:55.21 | starseeker | re: cad model - that would be cool. Then you could model what weight of books would be needed to warp it |
| 03:55.36 | brlcad | all made from pine 1x4's iirc, "rough cut" |
| 03:55.59 | yukonbob | ?could you figure out the warp-a-bility via brlcad? |
| 03:56.13 | brlcad | the base and top latch into each other like lego pieces almost |
| 03:56.23 | brlcad | rather, they latch into the side walls |
| 03:56.36 | brlcad | that was part what makes it so sturday |
| 03:56.51 | starseeker | Nifty. You could probably pick up a patent :-) |
| 03:56.58 | brlcad | oh god.. warppage.. I spent so much time dealing with that |
| 03:57.36 | yukonbob | re: warpage -- are you talking about your lumber twisting, or the deflection of a surface because of a load/force? |
| 03:57.38 | brlcad | sanding down pieces that I'd carefully hand-picked out of massive piles, trying to find a good balance of quality wood with interesting knots but not horribly warps |
| 03:57.52 | brlcad | only to have it warp nasty, twisting all around as it dried :) |
| 03:57.59 | starseeker | yukonbob: bowing of the shelves due to overly heavy books, but the others apply too |
| 03:58.11 | starseeker | brlcad: ouch |
| 03:58.15 | brlcad | oh, once I carved it up, warping didn't really matter |
| 03:58.25 | brlcad | just took a lot of prep work to get it to that point |
| 03:58.51 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: BRL-CAD + loads -- is that something that could be figured out, or does it have much to do w/ BRL-CAD per se? |
| 03:59.02 | brlcad | at 20"x20", the shelves are small enough that you're not likely to see warping very easily for a long time |
| 03:59.18 | brlcad | I mean, I can sit on a shelf, and it doesn't budge |
| 03:59.29 | starseeker | now we're talking :-) |
| 04:00.05 | brlcad | yukonbob: depends what you mean by "could be figured out" :) |
| 04:00.30 | brlcad | heh, totally |
| 04:01.29 | brlcad | I coulda bought some simple unfinished pine shelves from ikea for $40 bucks that would have been sufficient for what I had in mine use-wise, but the experience of building it was fun and these will probably outlast me |
| 04:01.43 | starseeker | Well, "just enough" for the worst case scenario often looks like over-engineering *cough*New Orleans levy system*cough* |
| 04:02.52 | starseeker | Indeed. There's a sense of accomplishment when you build your own stuff |
| 04:03.28 | starseeker | Confound it, now I'm going to be curious if BRL-CAD can actually model long term strain-induced warping effects |
| 04:03.45 | starseeker | IIRC that's a rather different problem than ballistics |
| 04:04.12 | brlcad | you'd have to right that analysis code, but there's nothing geometric that prevents the computation |
| 04:04.38 | starseeker | solid modeling should be the right environment for that, except that as the structure warps you'll have non-uniform densities |
| 04:04.40 | brlcad | you'd have a lot of prep-rigging that you'd have to declare, like you do for a FEA |
| 04:04.48 | starseeker | right |
| 04:05.18 | brlcad | you could very well keep track of all that with ray-tracing, though, without resorting to finite elements |
| 04:05.50 | starseeker | would the way to handle non-uniform densities be to approximate it with a series of shapes of different densities? |
| 04:05.56 | yukonbob | *going to have to have his hand... |
| 04:07.22 | brlcad | or break it down into finite elements and run the navier-stokes equations or maxwell or whatever else needed for whatever is being simulated |
| 04:07.55 | starseeker | For anything except trivially simple gradients that would be the only way to go anyway |
| 04:08.21 | brlcad | i've always thought it'd be very cool to implement something like a FEA without the FE's using ray-tracing ala particle tracing |
| 04:08.35 | starseeker | that would be interesting |
| 04:09.32 | brlcad | to run a fea without the massive memory overhead, intrinsically parallelizable, no geometry prep needed |
| 04:09.39 | brlcad | (other than the rigging) |
| 04:09.40 | starseeker | There's a phd for you brlcad :-) |
| 04:10.56 | starseeker | That sounds like it would generate a lot of interest if it could tackle a wide enough problem domain |
| 04:11.04 | brlcad | i can almost see how it'd work |
| 04:11.13 | brlcad | which is what makes it slightly less interesting too :) |
| 04:11.32 | starseeker | True, but on the other hand it means you might get it done in finite time ;-) |
| 04:12.34 | brlcad | yeah, that's true |
| 04:13.40 | brlcad | still think brl-cad needs a better visualization and modeling interface first, then maybe make that one of the first plugins while I work on the dissertation ;) |
| 04:14.29 | starseeker | :-) |
| 04:15.12 | brlcad | louipc: well, let me know what you need, if anything :) I can point you to source files, or explain most of the code related to that to get you started -- if you have a small end-user goal in mind, that would help |
| 04:17.37 | starseeker | Maloeran: are you on? |
| 04:21.39 | brlcad | and if anyone is still lacking for things to work on, there's still the big list at http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html |
| 04:22.02 | yukonbob | if anybody has spares hours in their day -- I'd be happy to take them off their hands.... |
| 04:23.58 | yukonbob | was that memory issues for DEMs ever resolved? |
| 04:24.33 | brlcad | the DSP memory gobble bug? |
| 04:24.38 | yukonbob | yup |
| 04:24.43 | brlcad | no, it wasn't |
| 04:24.58 | yukonbob | is it on anybody's radar, or have a status? |
| 04:25.26 | brlcad | it's on my radar |
| 04:25.34 | yukonbob | nice |
| 04:25.35 | brlcad | there are just 500 other blips just like it |
| 04:25.41 | yukonbob | of course |
| 04:25.49 | brlcad | all moving |
| 04:25.59 | yukonbob | !Deploy the scramblers |
| 04:26.05 | brlcad | so the ones that blip the brightest usually get hit |
| 04:26.22 | brlcad | or the easy ones on the outlier :) |
| 04:26.24 | yukonbob | heh -- are you saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease? |
| 04:27.19 | yukonbob | you have lots of internal users that come with bugs + "issues"? |
| 04:27.29 | brlcad | oh yeah |
| 04:27.45 | yukonbob | how many users do you support? |
| 04:28.39 | brlcad | it varies heavily depending on what's going on |
| 04:29.04 | yukonbob | might you have 50 people working away in front of BRL-CAD at times? |
| 04:31.00 | brlcad | no no, not nearly that many .. but it only takes one or two people to saturate a dev |
| 04:31.38 | brlcad | since each issue can take anywhere from 5 minutes/days/months/years to fully resolve |
| 04:32.05 | brlcad | and they do span that gamut all the time |
| 04:44.34 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: the artifacts in that model -- were you looking at the inside of the hub body, or the transition edge at outside of shell to face where spokes are inserted? |
| 04:45.35 | yukonbob | gah -- /me remembers he wishes that mged ran on :0.1!!! |
| 04:45.54 | yukonbob | nice big monitor idling... |
| 04:47.32 | brlcad | the ones on the inside of the hub body |
| 04:49.07 | brlcad | that one I did investigate, had a good talk with jra about it too, that's a *really old* issue related to boolean evaluation and tolerancing problems in the boolean weaver |
| 04:50.14 | yukonbob | tough to fix? |
| 04:50.18 | brlcad | that's one of those issues that is a blemish, but would probably take 5 weeks of effort to address fully -- the segment is actually correct, just the normal is for the wrong primitive (it's showing the outward facing normal of the torus that touches there in negative space) |
| 04:50.54 | brlcad | the fix might even only take a day or two of effort, but it's at the utter core of the ray-trace library and it'd take weeks of effort to validate |
| 04:51.27 | brlcad | just to ensure nothing else is changed with near absolute certainty |
| 04:51.49 | brlcad | because the boolean weaving is also at the heart of the analysis codes |
| 05:03.52 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: nice line support in mged, btclsh -- is it supplied via gnu readline? |
| 05:08.50 | brlcad | nope |
| 05:09.15 | brlcad | just coded up as needed |
| 05:09.25 | brlcad | mged's is *way* more extensive than btclsh's |
| 05:09.54 | brlcad | actually supports vi and emacs binding modes among other features |
| 05:10.15 | yukonbob | hrmm... |
| 05:10.27 | brlcad | readline would be .. tricky to integrate given how we juggle with tcl and how the even loop processes |
| 05:13.12 | yukonbob | apparently the gnu readline has a callball mechanism that works well w/ tcl... |
| 05:16.12 | brlcad | well, let me rephrase -- it would have been tricky for the feature jra was going for, which was tab-completion |
| 05:16.22 | brlcad | just getting it to process the line wouldn't be too tricky |
| 05:19.22 | brlcad | though I'd probably use the editline library just to avoid rms's annoying licensing agenda with readline |
| 05:23.56 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: check the length |
| 05:28.50 | yukonbob | is editline pretty portable? /me sees he's got a copy as part of his base system, but what about linux, OS X, Windows? |
| 05:29.42 | brlcad | yeah, very |
| 05:29.58 | brlcad | as much as readline if not moreso, and a drop-in compatible api with readline |
| 07:47.46 | *** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) | |
| 07:48.45 | Defcon | morning all. |
| 07:48.49 | Defcon | happy hacking today |
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| 14:07.19 | brlcad | howdy Defcon |
| 14:08.16 | Defcon | hi brlcad |
| 14:08.17 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:10.09 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/error.c burst/extern.h burst/prnt.c bwish/winMain.c): const format specifier |
| 14:43.47 | ``Erik | *readreadread* |
| 14:44.40 | ``Erik | yes, model your bookshelf, boy :D how would a geometry/raytrace analysis deal with warping? that's one of the big issues with the real use, deformation and geometry alteration is nontrivial... |
| 14:48.39 | archivist | sure is I had to deal with roller distortion in a roller press |
| 14:49.00 | archivist | and the needed grind profile to deal with it |
| 14:50.56 | archivist | its times like that that you find deflection formulas are a simplification |
| 14:51.11 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:51.12 | Z80-Boy | you need FEM for deformations |
| 14:51.21 | ``Erik | even the most complicated fea is a simplification |
| 14:51.45 | ``Erik | we're still learning the fundamental physics :D |
| 14:51.53 | archivist | hehe |
| 14:51.57 | Z80-Boy | Sometimes the paradigm of zero analysis is appropriate |
| 14:52.39 | Z80-Boy | For example I bought a really ripped second hand skateboard which has a crack in the middle |
| 14:52.45 | Z80-Boy | The question is can it break under me? |
| 14:52.51 | ``Erik | nah, just admit and understand the limitations of different kinds of analysis |
| 14:53.06 | ``Erik | even eyeball analysis are useful |
| 14:53.15 | archivist | when the job is "roll a sheet of paper under 200 pounds per inch" you need to work it out |
| 14:53.16 | Z80-Boy | Instead of doing fea I asked a guy in the skatepark who was better than me and he said unlikely unless I land badly |
| 14:53.21 | Z80-Boy | I can't jump so I am OK |
| 14:53.22 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:53.37 | ``Erik | given sufficient velocity at impact, ANY skateboard will break under you :D |
| 14:53.56 | ``Erik | sufficient momentum, even... or ke... *shrug* |
| 14:54.03 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: put the usage string into the usage func, don't need a progname var when there's a bu_getprogname() |
| 14:54.09 | Defcon | given sufficient velocity at impact, EVERYTHING will break under you |
| 14:54.27 | Z80-Boy | sufficient velocity at impact contains "sufficient velocity" |
| 14:54.30 | archivist | or it breaks you |
| 14:54.30 | ``Erik | y'know, that's something I've been pondering |
| 14:54.39 | Z80-Boy | I don't think I attain sufficient velocity when I skateboard :) |
| 14:54.43 | Z80-Boy | I am over-careful |
| 14:55.03 | Z80-Boy | I spend time in skateparks and not hospitals :) |
| 14:55.17 | Defcon | :p |
| 14:55.17 | Z80-Boy | I am not like Z-Boys who bombed through stop signs |
| 14:55.21 | ``Erik | a marble of unobtanium travelling at, oh, .99c impacts a rock planet with a molten core, like, say, earth... does it break the planet? or just punch a neat hole that automatically seals up? :D |
| 14:55.50 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: it gets stolen before the impact |
| 14:55.52 | brlcad | Defcon: I dunno if there's any velocity a person could be going on that would break the planet .. I'm pretty sure most velocities will just result in *splat* |
| 14:56.04 | Defcon | :p |
| 14:56.18 | Z80-Boy | I am sure however one can skate with such a bad style the planet breaks up just from having to watch it |
| 14:56.37 | Defcon | maybe at 12x c it would break the planet & result in *splat* |
| 14:56.58 | ``Erik | meatbags are awful soft, probably become a nice plasma cloud before getting to the surface if there's a sufficiently dense (like, human friendly) atmostphere |
| 14:58.03 | ``Erik | but, yeah, brlcad, if you're trying to figure out weight limits and warping using only csg geometry and rays, how would you account for shelf deformation under weight? the support characteristics of the shelf would change through the deformation... |
| 14:58.35 | Z80-Boy | if I model my body in BRL-CAD how do I calculate which way I should fall to minimize the results of wiping out on a skateboard? |
| 14:58.54 | Z80-Boy | What's worse for human surface? Perpendicular hit or shear? |
| 14:59.31 | ``Erik | I d'no, karel, go collect test data to build a model. I suggest jumping off of buildings and landing at different angles. make sure your sampling is large enough :D *duck* |
| 14:59.47 | Z80-Boy | I'll go to skatepark to collect samples |
| 15:00.18 | ``Erik | the sheer and strain of bones is a pretty complex topic O.o |
| 15:00.38 | ``Erik | sheer and stress, even |
| 15:00.41 | Z80-Boy | The problem is I don't usually fall anymore |
| 15:00.44 | Z80-Boy | if I lose balance |
| 15:01.00 | Z80-Boy | I bail unless my legs get into quantum entanglement |
| 15:01.14 | ``Erik | well, if y ou never fall, you don't have to think about how to minimize damage when falling... :D |
| 15:01.26 | Z80-Boy | It might take so long for me to collect sufficient data so that the question stops being practically relevant :) |
| 15:01.47 | Defcon | you would be pro skater by then |
| 15:01.48 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:01.59 | Z80-Boy | Actually walking is also quite a balance feat isn't it? And people don't think about it as something worth thinking about |
| 15:02.04 | Z80-Boy | pro lamer :) |
| 15:02.07 | brlcad | ``Erik: that's a problem of just how to do any non-trivial (i.e. not just cylinder holes) shape deformation on a CSG model, regardless of analysis/load/etc, same problem with modeling soft body materials |
| 15:02.23 | Z80-Boy | A skateboard would be easy to model wouldn't be? |
| 15:02.33 | ``Erik | (and if you lose enough control that you DO fall, will you have enough control to optimize your fall for reduced damage? be better to just like the 2-3 "safe" falls everyone uses and just have fun) |
| 15:02.34 | Z80-Boy | Ball bearings are toruses and spheres and cylinders right? |
| 15:03.12 | Z80-Boy | For the axles and kingpins I already have thread routines :) |
| 15:03.15 | brlcad | that's where converting the solids to their equivalent brep spline surfaces wins, at least for bending |
| 15:03.28 | brlcad | materials that crack/fracture/shatter/tear are still another problem on top of that |
| 15:03.39 | ``Erik | the wheels, bearings, bolts, etc should be easy to model, the boards body and the trucks would be the most interesting bits |
| 15:04.02 | Z80-Boy | I could build special BRL-CAD friendly trucks :) |
| 15:04.13 | Z80-Boy | I guess the most strength/weight is in space frame |
| 15:04.19 | ``Erik | yeah, but under deformation, the material is no longer consistent.. if you put a weight on a shelf and it bows, the density towards the top of the board is higher than the bottom |
| 15:04.22 | Z80-Boy | so if I weld myself space frame trucks... |
| 15:05.05 | ``Erik | welds are often weak points, and weight is a concern... most trucks are cast aluminum iirc |
| 15:05.09 | brlcad | last night, I was more thinking being able to do the static analysis on the CSG model so that, with a given contact rigging and a specified set of loads, you'd get an answer that says this object is going to bend X amount, this other object will crack and potentially shatter |
| 15:05.24 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: no worry, the weakest point of my skateboard is surely my skills |
| 15:05.33 | ``Erik | at least on cheap boards, mebbe they use cast iron or steel or something for some *shrug* |
| 15:05.34 | brlcad | whether it geometrically shows you that or not is a matter of remodeling and visualization |
| 15:05.42 | ``Erik | <-- hasn't boarded since the 80's |
| 15:05.52 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: that sounds like you have boarded |
| 15:05.53 | Defcon | <-- hasn't boarded at all |
| 15:06.54 | ``Erik | um, what's the bridge model engineers use? like strut and spring or something? that could probably be applied fairly easily, possibly generating the values from material tables after the connection points/types are annotated |
| 15:07.01 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_log.c): make fb_log()'s format specifier constant |
| 15:08.24 | ``Erik | but a model of the bookshelf system would probably be a great test case for any work in the drafting/ca{d,m} direction :D as well as a possible cae candidate that joe blow can relate to |
| 15:08.40 | brlcad | I'll bring it in and you can model it :) |
| 15:08.49 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: denote the fact that fb_log format became const |
| 15:08.59 | brlcad | actually, it's not an incredibly complex model.. it really would make for an interesting test case |
| 15:10.08 | brlcad | because of the way the major parts fit together with fairly well-known connectivity (some are purely friction, some are massive bolts, nails, screws |
| 15:11.36 | brlcad | what can't be easily captured is the properties of the individual boards that are riddled with various knottings but you could probably classify the average strength of a given board |
| 15:14.46 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/error.c: const fb_log |
| 15:16.29 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (extern.h prnt.c): constness |
| 15:20.54 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I put the BRL-CAD logo into closing titles of the video with all the models one after another |
| 15:21.19 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: the open source one as you said |
| 15:21.22 | brlcad | cool |
| 15:21.36 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/axis.c: add a check to make sure we don't exceed available buffer space for the dynamic number-of-digit printing |
| 15:21.39 | Z80-Boy | Now I synced the sound and am waiting for the video to compile |
| 15:21.52 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I guess maybe it could be used as a showcase video |
| 15:22.31 | ``Erik | wood is too complex to model at that scale... densities change all over the place, cell coherence, etc.. best you could do is cut cylinders for the knots and average, I'd imagine :D but just the design type stuff would be neat and a start |
| 15:22.50 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: party? |
| 15:24.33 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I also found and reported several bugs recently |
| 15:26.48 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use bu_which() to find pwd instead of relying on popen |
| 15:28.16 | Defcon | so why should i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Modo, 3DSmax, ... ? |
| 15:28.50 | Z80-Boy | Defcon: is Modo or 3DSmax free software? |
| 15:29.32 | brlcad | Defcon: you're welcome to use whatever you like, I'm not a salesman :) |
| 15:30.39 | brlcad | though Z80-Boy does make a good point, we're open source, those aren't solid modelers making them horribly-suited for analysis purposes |
| 15:31.11 | brlcad | s/source,/source; and also/ |
| 15:31.38 | Defcon | good point.. |
| 15:32.08 | Z80-Boy | Close-source may fire back unpredictably in the future ;-) |
| 15:32.23 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 15:32.28 | Defcon | so why should i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Blender?$? |
| 15:32.31 | Defcon | -$ |
| 15:33.33 | brlcad | blender's also not a solid modeler |
| 15:33.50 | Defcon | meaning? |
| 15:33.53 | brlcad | it's a content creation tool ala maya |
| 15:34.06 | Defcon | aah k |
| 15:34.13 | brlcad | same reason I wouldn't use Maya for CAD, I wouldn't use Blender for CAD |
| 15:34.30 | brlcad | you use a CAD system that's designed with engineering purposes in mind |
| 15:34.40 | Defcon | yes ofc |
| 15:34.51 | brlcad | not just making pretty models for movies and animations |
| 15:34.51 | Defcon | my company uses autoCAD |
| 15:34.59 | Defcon | for 2D plans |
| 15:35.16 | brlcad | ask your coworkers why you don't use maya |
| 15:35.28 | brlcad | you'll have your answer |
| 15:35.31 | Defcon | dunno |
| 15:35.34 | Defcon | k |
| 15:35.35 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:35.53 | brlcad | assuming you ask someone knowledgeable about CAD and Maya :) |
| 15:36.03 | Defcon | indeed :) |
| 15:36.20 | Defcon | but that one is gone now |
| 15:36.24 | Defcon | ill |
| 15:36.33 | Defcon | so i'll ask him when he gets back :) |
| 15:36.44 | brlcad | though AutoCAD is only a subset of the "CAD" software domain -- they're CADD -- CAD for drafting purposes (i.e. predominantly focused on the 2D modeling approach) |
| 15:37.09 | Z80-Boy | "The creditors agreed to release Blender under the terms of the GNU General Public License, for a one-time payment of EUR100,000" |
| 15:37.16 | Z80-Boy | Hehe that's like Ronja, but on much higher scale |
| 15:37.30 | brlcad | Defcon: here's a rough idea where BRL-CAD presently stands in the CAD arena: http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png |
| 15:39.33 | brlcad | where if you know your CAD packages, CADD is roughly AutoCAD, MCAD would be something like GibbsCAM, CAAD would be something like ARCHICAD, etc |
| 15:39.40 | Defcon | whow very nice |
| 15:40.01 | Defcon | us gov ..? |
| 15:40.02 | Defcon | :) |
| 15:40.31 | brlcad | ProEngineer, CATIA, and Unigraphics would fall roughly under the CAD label in the background |
| 15:41.19 | Defcon | hmm |
| 15:41.21 | Defcon | k |
| 15:41.43 | Defcon | so brl-cad is revolutionary |
| 15:42.21 | Axman6 | eh? |
| 15:42.23 | brlcad | the main/only discrepancy is the CADD domain is *massive*, so it's oval really needed to be a lot bigger, but it throws off the purpose of the diagram |
| 15:43.08 | Defcon | hmm k |
| 15:43.23 | Defcon | brl-cad since the mid 80's? |
| 15:43.35 | brlcad | yep, under constant development |
| 15:43.45 | Defcon | wicked |
| 15:43.48 | brlcad | s/revolutionary/evolutionary/ |
| 15:43.54 | Axman6 | back when there was a BRL |
| 15:44.00 | Z80-Boy | Hmm Blender also seems to be possible to use for Ronja |
| 15:44.23 | Defcon | Blender and Ronja sitting in a tree.. |
| 15:46.55 | Axman6 | Defcon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD |
| 15:48.57 | Defcon | tnx |
| 15:49.34 | Axman6 | brlcad: i may have missed the point, but can you do balistics simularions with brl-cad? |
| 15:49.58 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: bu_get_load_average() has a horrible implementation but fortunately we don't even use it. mark it deprecated. |
| 15:50.22 | Z80-Boy | I think I even tried Blender before BRL-CAD |
| 15:51.17 | Z80-Boy | looks like an unfinished project |
| 15:51.26 | Z80-Boy | Already in INSTALL there are some patches embedded in the text |
| 15:51.48 | Z80-Boy | Doesn't have a ./configure and build instructions are linked on an external URL |
| 15:52.17 | Z80-Boy | Already from the beginning suggests an impression that the people who do it have no idea how to maintain software so it's practically usable for the user |
| 15:52.21 | brlcad | Axman6: brl-cad is a massive suite of utilities and libraries, those libraries in particular are used for various purpose including for ballistic simulations |
| 15:53.09 | brlcad | we don't provide those analysis codes, but they rely heavily on brl-cad's speed, geometry flexibility and representation formats, and our modeling tools |
| 15:53.24 | Axman6 | ah ha |
| 15:53.59 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: that's because they are secret by the army, right? |
| 15:54.24 | brlcad | but to give you an idea, there is a BRL-CAD model of just about every military asset that has been in existance over the past two decades including tanks, helicopters, planes, some ships, etc |
| 15:55.01 | Z80-Boy | hehe |
| 15:55.10 | Axman6 | ... woah. right, didn't know brl-cad was that well utilised b the military tbh :P |
| 15:55.10 | Z80-Boy | do you also have the Roswell alien flying saucer? |
| 15:55.22 | brlcad | I keep it in my back pocket |
| 15:55.29 | brlcad | people overestimate the size of that saucer |
| 15:55.31 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you also have aircraft carriers? |
| 15:55.36 | Axman6 | brlcad: care to share some cool models? |
| 15:56.19 | Z80-Boy | It takes too long to install |
| 15:56.25 | Z80-Boy | Requires a lot of external dependencies |
| 15:56.28 | brlcad | Axman6: there's only one "interesting" semi-real model, and I'm not sure how cool I'd call it .. fairly low-detail model of the russian havoc helicopter |
| 15:56.45 | Axman6 | heh, that'd be cool |
| 15:56.50 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png |
| 15:57.00 | brlcad | that model is included (havoc.g |
| 15:57.07 | brlcad | in the distribution |
| 15:57.15 | Axman6 | ah cool |
| 15:57.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: how was this model created? |
| 15:57.40 | Axman6 | any idea how long something like that takes to create? |
| 15:57.42 | brlcad | with mged |
| 15:57.55 | Z80-Boy | but how were the dimensions acquired? |
| 15:58.00 | Z80-Boy | Through secret espionage? |
| 15:58.09 | Z80-Boy | Or measuring a captured piece of the helicopter? |
| 15:58.38 | brlcad | Axman6: depends on the modeler's expertise level -- something like havoc probably/usually takes about a month to model, maybe less, maybe more |
| 15:58.57 | brlcad | i can't say how havoc was acquired |
| 15:59.04 | Z80-Boy | is it secret? |
| 15:59.12 | brlcad | no, it's because I don't know :) |
| 15:59.13 | Axman6 | brlcad: do you work for ARL or somewhere related? |
| 15:59.14 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 15:59.21 | Defcon | going home |
| 15:59.23 | Defcon | ttyl all |
| 15:59.24 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: lol |
| 15:59.37 | brlcad | havoc is an old helicopter, though |
| 15:59.48 | brlcad | you can actually buy one off the market now iirc |
| 15:59.53 | Axman6 | looks a lot like an apache |
| 15:59.54 | Z80-Boy | is havoc an official army code name for this type? |
| 16:00.07 | brlcad | apache's a lot bigger, and the model is *way* cooler ;) |
| 16:00.17 | Axman6 | damn it :P |
| 16:00.19 | Axman6 | gimme! |
| 16:00.26 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: but not public I guess :) |
| 16:00.31 | brlcad | not in the least |
| 16:00.38 | Axman6 | pity |
| 16:00.44 | Axman6 | so who makes the models? |
| 16:00.50 | brlcad | modelers? |
| 16:00.53 | Z80-Boy | A secret department? :) |
| 16:01.07 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you also have some models of state of the art nuclear weapons? :) |
| 16:01.20 | brlcad | there aren't nearly as many secret departments as you'd like to think, or as hollywood would like to make you think |
| 16:01.29 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: like all the little parts inside with nanometer precision? |
| 16:01.37 | Axman6 | brlcad: says you, but how would you know! |
| 16:02.29 | Axman6 | bah, you're crap at divulging information |
| 16:02.35 | Axman6 | :( |
| 16:03.01 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you have to do 20 pushups in your army office? |
| 16:03.43 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: I am sure they must have secret NATO calling codes and firearms everywhere |
| 16:04.06 | Axman6 | ASIO? or brlcad? :P |
| 16:04.18 | Z80-Boy | Hehe I just got an interesting idea |
| 16:04.36 | Z80-Boy | I saw a boat with about 8 people catch a wave in a surfing video |
| 16:04.47 | Z80-Boy | The marines could try to catch a tsunami with an aircraft carrier |
| 16:04.56 | Z80-Boy | or those rare superwaves created by storms |
| 16:05.12 | Axman6 | we kill brlcad, steal his identity, take his awesome modles, ray trace them at massive resolutions, and fill the entire capacity of the internet? |
| 16:05.12 | Z80-Boy | then make a video and post to youtube :) |
| 16:05.31 | Axman6 | haha |
| 16:05.33 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: no way killing and stealing is illegal |
| 16:06.03 | Axman6 | ok, we'll hide him in a washing machine, and borrow the models |
| 16:06.10 | Z80-Boy | I guess the Army must have a special department to make sure the Hollywood always gets it wrong |
| 16:06.20 | Z80-Boy | To not divulge any strategic information :) |
| 16:07.06 | Axman6 | but ya see, if they're like "i'm sorry, you cannot put that in your movie", then they've just divulged that the stuff they made up is really real |
| 16:07.12 | Z80-Boy | They probably send random bits of modified information about the truth to all the Holywood directors |
| 16:07.51 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: no they come "hey the truth is actually more colourful than you portray - our aircraft carriers can also travel in the space!" |
| 16:08.21 | Z80-Boy | And that's how they made the star trek/star wars I always confuse those two names the names are so similar |
| 16:08.27 | Z80-Boy | Both begin with "Star" and a space. |
| 16:08.37 | Axman6 | lol |
| 16:09.26 | Z80-Boy | I know in once of them there were some Jedi Knights with battery-operated coloured fluorescent tubes with internal ballast in their hands |
| 16:10.35 | Axman6 | oh crap. i heard an ad today for a new kids toy, can't remember it's actual name, but it was something like "The transforming Dath Vader Death Star something something" |
| 16:11.09 | Axman6 | glow swords |
| 16:11.15 | Z80-Boy | and now kids have to carry bulky transformers |
| 16:11.24 | Z80-Boy | instead of more moder switched mode power supplies |
| 16:12.18 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): finally obsolete bu_brlcad_path() and bu_tcl_brlcad_path(), which were marked deprecated back in 7.4; callers should now be using bu_brlcad_data() and bu_brlcad_root() depending on the nature of the lookup. |
| 16:12.19 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: i've done push-ups at work before |
| 16:12.31 | brlcad | but because I can and I like em :) |
| 16:12.41 | brlcad | and 20 would be for a wuss |
| 16:13.53 | Axman6 | i always sucked at puch-ups, too tall and chubby i guess. always dominated at sit-ups though |
| 16:13.57 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I go to a gym does it count instead? |
| 16:14.13 | Z80-Boy | I dominate at sit-at-computers |
| 16:14.22 | brlcad | depends what you do at the gym |
| 16:14.33 | brlcad | if you go there just to guy-watch, it doesn't really count for much :) |
| 16:14.46 | Z80-Boy | push and pull various bars and handles and lift damn heavy irons with that |
| 16:15.07 | Z80-Boy | If I need power I guy-watch and engage higher level of fantasy |
| 16:15.10 | brlcad | mm.. speaking of guns.. I should go to the gym tonight to work on them some more |
| 16:15.28 | Axman6 | heh, brlcad, what do you get for $249.99 from brlcad.com that you can't get free from brlcad.org? |
| 16:15.37 | Z80-Boy | Like "omg... I am lazy to stop and switch from 60 down to 55... I'll watch this guy and imagine he wants me and now I have to impress him..." |
| 16:15.44 | brlcad | Axman6: guaranteed support |
| 16:15.54 | Axman6 | but you're always here! |
| 16:15.56 | brlcad | printed documentation and CDs |
| 16:16.46 | brlcad | Axman6: yes, but I don't have to answer a goddamn question if I don't want to :) |
| 16:17.02 | Axman6 | you're an op, of course you do! |
| 16:17.02 | brlcad | you pay them for answers |
| 16:17.31 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you are in Maryland? According to the Survice map it looks like you are close to some kind of deep bay |
| 16:17.36 | *** mode/#brlcad [-o brlcad] by ChanServ | |
| 16:17.38 | Z80-Boy | isn't it a river estuary actually? |
| 16:17.45 | brlcad | what that you say, sonny? |
| 16:17.48 | Axman6 | i always (try to) in #macosx where i'm an op, and it's got 1000x more idiots than here ;) |
| 16:18.09 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes, in maryland -- survice's headquaraters is just down the road |
| 16:18.18 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: submarines maybeh? |
| 16:18.25 | brlcad | and that bay is .. the Chesapeake Bay |
| 16:18.40 | Axman6 | i've heard of that... |
| 16:18.41 | brlcad | pretty reknowned bay |
| 16:18.58 | Axman6 | being an aussie, i'm a little surprised |
| 16:19.15 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I guess there must be no waves - but if you drive out the bay, can you surf there? |
| 16:19.29 | brlcad | ever heard of "Old Bay" seasoning? your supermarket undoubtedly carries it -- Chesapeake is the "Old Bay" |
| 16:20.09 | brlcad | the source of "maryland crabs" and "maryland crab cakes" that you can find at seafood restaurants |
| 16:20.32 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: the east coast US is horrible for surfing |
| 16:20.34 | Axman6 | they named an STI after a place? |
| 16:20.48 | brlcad | the wind direction and short beaches don't help |
| 16:21.02 | brlcad | STI? |
| 16:21.16 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: hey, you have subtropical climate! That's great! |
| 16:21.33 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: "bay leaves"? |
| 16:21.35 | brlcad | right now there's about 2 inches of snow on the ground |
| 16:22.24 | Z80-Boy | oops |
| 16:22.36 | Z80-Boy | and California is supposed to have mediterranean |
| 16:22.45 | Z80-Boy | Under which they image 10 degree centigrade water... |
| 16:22.54 | brlcad | different bay |
| 16:23.41 | brlcad | yeah, the water is slightly warmer on the east, but with the different wind direction and the apalachean mountains blocking the coast, you just dont' get big waves |
| 16:23.48 | Z80-Boy | But at least you have the Hawaii :) |
| 16:24.02 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 16:24.11 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: the waves are generated in distance anyway |
| 16:24.20 | Axman6 | rawww! wtf irssi/screen! |
| 16:24.29 | Z80-Boy | When I was surfing, we were receiving waves probably generated by that tropical cyclone whatever impaling at FLorida |
| 16:24.35 | Axman6 | anyway... STI = sexually transmitted infection |
| 16:24.36 | Z80-Boy | I don't remember the name but it was in the news |
| 16:24.49 | brlcad | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay |
| 16:24.54 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I read it |
| 16:25.13 | brlcad | yeah, forgot that it's also the largest estuary |
| 16:25.35 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I wonder if Britan also classifies as "horrible" for surfing |
| 16:25.35 | brlcad | I'm within a few miles of the very tip of the bay |
| 16:25.44 | Z80-Boy | Unless you are a polar bear... |
| 16:25.44 | Axman6 | ok, sleep time for me. g'night guys |
| 16:25.52 | brlcad | cya aussie |
| 16:26.11 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: yeah it's pretty bad over there |
| 16:26.12 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: have you been to Hawaii? |
| 16:26.17 | brlcad | nope, not yet |
| 16:26.29 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: not yet? |
| 16:26.32 | Z80-Boy | Planning? |
| 16:26.37 | brlcad | buddy and I talked about going recently |
| 16:26.41 | brlcad | he's trying to kill me |
| 16:26.47 | brlcad | (via surfing) |
| 16:27.03 | brlcad | either the major waves down in mexico or hawaii |
| 16:27.31 | brlcad | I already almost died several times on 12 foot waves in california |
| 16:27.32 | Z80-Boy | I would prefer gradually increasing the killing force of the waves to get used to it |
| 16:27.40 | brlcad | I don't need 20-30 footers |
| 16:27.43 | Axman6 | best place to go would be chaupu (sp...) in fiji i think |
| 16:27.44 | Z80-Boy | are you an experienced surfer? |
| 16:28.28 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: you can hide from the wave underwater |
| 16:28.32 | brlcad | I've surfed all of three times, all day, or about 40 hours total :) |
| 16:29.01 | Z80-Boy | I have surfed 6 days 5 hours a day 30 hours total |
| 16:29.23 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I don't think the size is appropriate for you unless you are a surf-learning superhero :) |
| 16:31.08 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: almost died what danger did you get into? |
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| 16:54.15 | ``Erik | wait, what? stars and space? in the same context? how very unique and original O.o |
| 16:55.19 | prasad_ | ``Erik: what lever are u now? |
| 16:55.29 | ``Erik | whu? |
| 16:57.13 | prasad_ | er |
| 16:57.14 | prasad_ | level |
| 16:57.51 | ``Erik | I d'no if you'd be able to find a havoc for sale, the Mi-28 was a prototype competing to replace the Mi-24 'hin', and I thought it lost out to a ka model (which was never pushed due to the collapse over there) |
| 16:58.01 | ``Erik | level? O.o you're confusin' me, boy |
| 16:58.10 | prasad_ | wow |
| 16:58.33 | prasad_ | ka-52? |
| 16:59.19 | ``Erik | wikiwikiwiki.... um, the ka50, originally... but havoc development continued |
| 17:00.06 | ``Erik | wow, mi28n is being moved into the russian military |
| 17:01.02 | ``Erik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28 |
| 17:02.42 | prasad_ | WoW |
| 17:03.05 | ``Erik | oh, um, 70, 56, ... a couple others |
| 17:06.39 | prasad_ | yikes |
| 17:06.48 | prasad_ | addict? ;) |
| 17:07.03 | ``Erik | nah, efficient :D I play mebbe 2-3 days a week |
| 17:07.18 | ``Erik | and still watch all the shows on tv *shrug* O.o |
| 17:12.03 | prasad_ | star trek mmo might be canned :( |
| 17:12.21 | prasad_ | perpetual ent. going out of business (says gamasutra) |
| 17:12.30 | prasad_ | i was looking forward to that one |
| 17:38.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: allow dynamic lib to be build |
| 17:38.38 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (camera.h render_internal.h): fixes for third party consumers |
| 17:40.37 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: add missing closing paren. |
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| 17:43.55 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: oh, just getting tossed around in the bigger waves, learning to surf -- the water was exceptionally rough when I first went out |
| 17:44.13 | brlcad | even my buddy, who's surfed for years was having trouble catching waves |
| 17:45.10 | brlcad | it was about right for me skill-wise, I still eventually got the hang of it, and the rush of lethal situations is always fun |
| 17:49.31 | Z80-Boy | trouble catching waves? |
| 17:49.36 | Z80-Boy | I never had trouble catching a wave |
| 17:49.52 | Z80-Boy | I always had a trouble standing up the way they insisted is the optimum one |
| 17:50.01 | ``Erik | apparently you've never surfed on a pond |
| 17:50.01 | ``Erik | :D |
| 17:50.28 | Z80-Boy | I had once trouble not catching a wave though |
| 17:51.12 | Z80-Boy | They said I should cancel the attempt when someone is already standing on the wave |
| 17:51.16 | Z80-Boy | but I couldn't! |
| 17:51.41 | Z80-Boy | I put my hands into the water as deep as I could, tremendous force, but the wave had a more tremendous force :) |
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| 17:53.47 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbed/prnt.c: change fb_log definition to match the prototype in fb.h |
| 17:55.06 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: change fb_log definition to match the prototype in fb.h |
| 18:24.48 | CIA-28 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): use bu_avail_cpu()s instead of the FreeBSD-only get_procs() version |
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| 20:07.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (Makefile.am plane.c plane.h): plane is now cut |
| 20:09.17 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render.h: plane is now cut |
| 20:10.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: bring in cleanup that was done on plane.c |
| 20:11.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h: RENDER_METHOD_PLANE is a synonym for RENDER_METHOD_CUT now |
| 20:16.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: mirror the mesh hit/select in libcommon (pre-migration) |
| 20:16.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst.h: build the isst/adrt synonyms |
| 20:17.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: use the new tienet api... sorta... |
| 20:18.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (load.c load.h Makefile.am): bring in the mysql load stuff (kinda) before removing it... O.o |
| 20:19.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (env.c unpack.c): plane is now cut |
| 20:25.47 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: once again, rtwizard seems to be busted. getting bad screen distance ":41.25" processing the -width option on the itk_component(bar) on the RTWizard::FeedbackDialog |
| 20:37.12 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: bring in changes from the new adrt stuff |
| 20:52.41 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: how old were you when you stopped skateboarding? |
| 21:06.30 | Maloeran | I was at Surfer's Paraside near the gold coast a couple weeks ago, but I wasn't too good at that particular activity |
| 21:11.42 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: wow. So you tried surfing there/ |
| 21:13.00 | Maloeran | Yes, only the second time I ever tried though :), I rarely could last more than 5 seconds standing |
| 21:14.09 | Maloeran | The best part of the trip to Australia was definitely the scuba diving in the coral reefs |
| 21:17.52 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: that's already quite good :) |
| 21:18.25 | Z80-Boy | For the second time definintel |
| 21:18.26 | Z80-Boy | y |
| 21:19.15 | Z80-Boy | But we here in Europe are a bit handicapped compared to US or Australia |
| 21:19.17 | brlcad | Maloeran, no not on vacation .. just general discussion about previous adventures |
| 21:19.34 | Z80-Boy | Surfing in the UK means who manages to stand up in Brighton is a world champion :) |
| 21:19.56 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: did you dive with tanks? |
| 21:20.13 | Maloeran | Of course Z80, for about a week |
| 21:20.35 | Z80-Boy | "I would like M1A1 Abrams oxygen tanks, please..." |
| 21:20.39 | Maloeran | I went in the Whitsunday Islands, it's absolutely magnificent |
| 21:21.34 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: colourful fish and reefs? |
| 21:22.11 | Maloeran | Sure, I took some pictures too : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/ |
| 21:22.52 | Maloeran | I certainly recommend the experience if you enjoy diving |
| 21:26.39 | Z80-Boy | Very nice, like a paradise |
| 21:26.50 | Z80-Boy | http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef085.html this needs to be modelled using a torus I guess |
| 21:27.58 | Z80-Boy | Oops this looks like an alien brain attack from the outer space http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef105.html |
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| 21:29.00 | Maloeran | Eheh, most of my pictures came out fairly bad ( not available online ) ; luminosity is low and it's tricky to stand perfectly still when under water |
| 21:29.33 | Maloeran | Or when purchasing in sprint various large fishes, it came out all blurry of course |
| 21:30.19 | Maloeran | The only half-decent picture of my shark : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef046.html *sobs* |
| 21:31.08 | Maloeran | when chasing* in sprint |
| 21:32.36 | Z80-Boy | Isn't that Surfers Paradise? |
| 21:33.25 | Maloeran | The scuba diving was at Airlie Beach, Whitsunday Coast, Whitsunday Islands, Daydream Island |
| 21:33.42 | Z80-Boy | Is it suitable for lamers, this Surfers Paradise? |
| 21:35.11 | Z80-Boy | What does red/yellow mean? Supervised beach? |
| 21:35.12 | Maloeran | One should probably start with something easier, but the Gold Coast beaches are great for swimming or other activities too |
| 21:35.38 | Maloeran | The colored flags? Yes |
| 21:35.45 | Z80-Boy | Did you go on your own bike? |
| 21:36.32 | Maloeran | I borrowed one on a couple occasions, the cities seemed a bit poor in bicycle lanes |
| 21:37.52 | Maloeran | Are you considering a trip to Australia? |
| 21:38.06 | Z80-Boy | After these pictures I think it would be nice to go there :) |
| 21:38.26 | Z80-Boy | But not seriously yet. Put it into the todo list :) |
| 21:40.49 | Maloeran | The experience has been rather poor culturally and culinary, it sure depends what you are after |
| 21:42.40 | Z80-Boy | They have the architectural spirit of London! I want that! |
| 21:44.29 | ``Erik | <mal> it's not french, so it sucks |
| 21:44.32 | ``Erik | *cough* :D O:-) |
| 21:44.53 | Maloeran | Eh oh, I loved Mexico :) |
| 21:45.18 | ``Erik | yeah, decent mexican food is difficult to find in the US, and I can't even find shitty mexican food around here :( |
| 21:45.52 | ``Erik | or decent sushi *sigh* |
| 21:46.13 | ``Erik | and, uh, yeah, yukonbob, mysql... one of my tasks with that bit of software is to DE-sql it, though O.o |
| 21:46.47 | Z80-Boy | and now sleep good night |
| 21:47.26 | Maloeran | May the night gently rock your dreams |
| 21:48.41 | Z80-Boy | I know some French surfing |
| 21:48.57 | Z80-Boy | Pleine Mer means the water is up. Basse Mer means the water is down. |
| 21:49.09 | Z80-Boy | Mountee means going up and what is going down I don't know |
| 21:49.42 | Z80-Boy | good night |
| 21:50.48 | ``Erik | I learned my french from the germans. I only know two phrases, "Je me rends!" and "merde" |
| 21:50.49 | ``Erik | :D |
| 22:02.56 | Maloeran | Tsk :) |
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| 22:43.08 | Maloeran | make sandwish |
| 22:43.13 | Maloeran | make: *** No rule to make target `sandwish'. Stop. |
| 22:44.06 | Maloeran | Oops, it's sandwich of course |
| 22:47.01 | yukonbob | mmm... /me gets idea for smoked beef sandwich -- thx Maloeran |
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| 23:48.15 | starseeker | Maloeran: around? |
| 00:03.21 | ``Erik | heh |
| 00:10.48 | yukonbob | heh |
| 00:13.09 | yukonbob | http://xkcd.org/350/ |
| 00:15.23 | Axman6 | ``Erik: heh |
| 00:16.00 | yukonbob | ok last one from me: http://xkcd.org/346/ |
| 00:40.59 | Axman6 | sounds like RSS... xkcd has a feed |
| 00:44.21 | ``Erik | I've only looked at rss using firefox, not an aggregator |
| 00:44.35 | ``Erik | http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php is my dealie |
| 01:01.45 | Axman6 | don't use a mac do you? |
| 01:04.32 | ``Erik | yeah I do |
| 01:07.59 | Axman6 | got leopard yet? |
| 01:08.13 | Axman6 | mail 3.0 adds RSS support, it' pretty nice |
| 01:08.16 | Axman6 | s* |
| 02:57.53 | ``Erik | <-- doesn't use mail.app *shrug* :) |
| 03:05.17 | Maloeran | Hey starseeker |
| 03:05.55 | Maloeran | Gez, how can it be so hard to get a manager to compile code properly. I blame your autoconf stuff, Erik :) |
| 03:43.23 | ``Erik | uh |
| 03:43.28 | ``Erik | manager? compiling something? O.O |
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| 04:51.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove bu_brlcad_path and bu_tcl_brlcad_path decls, they're now obsolete |
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| 05:10.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/blt.h: quell compilation warning about data definition having no type or storage class in libtclcad when including the blt.h header |
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| 05:18.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: don't mention compat4.h |
| 05:20.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bomb.c: compat4.h is no longer needed or wanted, pretend it doesn't exist .. so don't undefine things it might define |
| 05:22.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.3: remove the RECOMMENDATION section that refers to compat4.h and updating sources several major versions old |
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| 05:31.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: update the section on deprecation with a pointer to the doc/deprecation.txt transcript. remove the old blather about compat4.h and mged commands. |
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| 05:42.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: provide the args for a_overlap() so it can perform type checks |
| 05:46.04 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: set the app's log overlap handler to rt_silent_logoverlap() instead of setting the overlap callback to rt_overlap_quietly() |
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| 06:32.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h doc/deprecation.txt src/librt/bool.c): |
| 06:32.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: rt_overlap_quietly() is now finally obsolete. no longer need the _rt_defoverlap |
| 06:32.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: since the verbosity flag is no longer used anyways as well. apps instead can |
| 06:32.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: set the a_logoverlap callback to a logging routine (like rt_silent_logoverlap()) |
| 06:32.59 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: as the overlap handler is supposed to be silent. |
| 06:36.33 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am compat4.h): compat4.h is now finally fully obsolete. it's been deprecated since 5.0 and with a compilation pragma warning now for several major release. it's time. just let it go. buh-bye. |
| 06:37.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: compat4.h is now finally fully obsolete. it's been deprecated since 5.0 and with a compilation pragma warning now for several major release. it's time. just let it go. buh-bye. |
| 06:43.10 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/deprecation.txt src/libbn/mat.c): and then there were none. make the last of the pre-7.0 deprecations now finally obsolete including bn_mat_zero(), bn_mat_idn(), and bn_mat_copy(). they all have equivalent macros provided by the api. |
| 06:52.32 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: reorder the functions so that no declarations are necessary. |
| 06:54.00 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: doxygenify |
| 06:57.48 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/fftc.c: quell warning |
| 06:58.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ifftc.c: quell warning |
| 07:04.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: use stat() instead of access() (and it's a c89 function) |
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| 07:39.17 | Defcon | morning all |
| 07:39.18 | Defcon | happy hacking |
| 07:50.33 | alex_joni | hi Defcon |
| 07:55.11 | Defcon | hi alex_joni |
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| 14:21.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (6 files in 3 dirs): apply a modified form of Pedro F. Giffuni - giffunip's sf patch [ 1845889 ] "Minor fixes to URT" (seems half his changes were already applied) |
| 14:22.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/.cvsignore: ignore rleccube |
| 14:37.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 14:37.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: applied a modified form of Pedro F. Giffuni - giffunip's sf patch [ 1845889 ] |
| 14:37.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: "Minor fixes to URT" (seems half his changes were already applied). this fixed |
| 14:37.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: bugs in several Utah Raster Toolkit including libutahrle and a handful of the |
| 14:37.16 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: tools |
| 14:41.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: apply a modified form of Karel Kulhavy - clock3's sf patch [ 1837469 ] "man rt" documentation tweak that clarifies that the -d option returns zero as the distance when it misses. |
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| 15:08.14 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: wow, great :) |
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| 16:20.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.3: remove mention of the obsolete (and removed) rt_overlap_quietly function |
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| 17:48.20 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: record Dwayne's wishlist |
| 17:48.41 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: mention the todo list in clone.c |
| 18:01.37 | Submarine | mmh |
| 18:01.43 | Submarine | sorry for the innocent question |
| 18:01.53 | Submarine | but around which axis does the rotate command work? |
| 18:01.59 | Submarine | I don't mean x, y or z |
| 18:02.07 | Submarine | (which is a direction) |
| 18:02.22 | Submarine | but the axis in affine space... like is it the axis passing through (0, 0, 0) ? |
| 18:02.40 | Z80-Boy | Submarine: that's a great mystery of the universe |
| 18:04.53 | Submarine | Thanks for the helpful contribution. |
| 18:05.04 | Z80-Boy | I also hit the same problem |
| 18:05.22 | Z80-Boy | I wanted to know if the spaces are in the matrix input space or the matrix output space. |
| 18:05.45 | Z80-Boy | And also if it rotates counter or clockwise, and if, then from which view direction counter or clockwise ;-) |
| 18:06.05 | Z80-Boy | I solved it by stopping using the rot command and typing the matrices manually. |
| 18:06.15 | Submarine | arf? |
| 18:06.56 | Z80-Boy | and it also sometimes rotates the view and sometimes the body edited - isn't clear to me which applies when |
| 18:07.19 | Z80-Boy | With the matrices it works all right |
| 18:07.33 | Z80-Boy | except I need to use a scientific calculator if I want a rotation not multiple of 90 degrees |
| 18:08.38 | Submarine | ok |
| 18:08.49 | Submarine | Is there any other free CAD 3D tool? |
| 18:10.02 | Z80-Boy | No |
| 18:10.34 | Z80-Boy | But if someone reverse engineers the behaviour of the rot command and patches the help entry then it becomes usable |
| 18:12.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot.c: limit the length of the face_mode copy into the bizzare use of bot_data (where we intentionally go past the sizeof(struct bot_rec) with the bot data for v4 files) |
| 18:16.56 | ``Erik | mal: #1 best move, flathead screwdriver. Insert. Twist. Reassembled. :D |
| 18:52.29 | Maloeran | ``Erik, I have doubts about getting down to 2 minutes your way :) |
| 18:53.37 | ``Erik | I can solve it in 0 seconds for any permutation such that each side has all 9 cells the same color :D |
| 18:56.24 | Maloeran | Hum, 2 minutes 25 seconds |
| 18:56.55 | Maloeran | I don't quite get how some people complete it in < 20 seconds, you have to spend some time to actually observe the cube |
| 18:57.48 | ``Erik | probably a pre-defined starting point and plain memorization of the "solution" |
| 18:58.34 | Maloeran | Oh. So they study it in advance, and take 20 seconds just to make their moves |
| 18:58.46 | minute-ssh | 3^3 |
| 18:59.00 | minute-ssh | Surely? |
| 18:59.04 | Maloeran | No :) |
| 18:59.14 | ``Erik | heh, the combinatorics are a little more complex |
| 18:59.15 | minute-ssh | Oh yeah, different colours. |
| 18:59.17 | alex_joni | way more than that :) |
| 18:59.29 | minute-ssh | :P |
| 19:00.16 | Maloeran | 43,252,003,274,489,856,000 permutations, apparently |
| 19:00.21 | minute-ssh | uh |
| 19:00.26 | alex_joni | 8!*3^8*12!*2^12 = 519024039293878272000 |
| 19:01.30 | alex_joni | Maloeran: that seems like too much |
| 19:01.50 | alex_joni | this seems a bit more realistic: http://www.mathematische-basteleien.de/rubikscube.htm |
| 19:01.55 | Maloeran | Wikipedia never lies! |
| 19:02.20 | ``Erik | funny |
| 19:02.27 | ``Erik | I was just reading the latest 'issue' with wikipedia |
| 19:02.32 | ``Erik | on register.co.uk |
| 19:02.55 | minute-ssh | They had it on slashdot also, but the register isn't very reliable IMO. |
| 19:03.20 | archivist | as reliable as /. |
| 19:03.25 | ``Erik | nah, but they are the source of active bofh content, so I dig 'em anyways... and I'm coming from the slashdot page originally... |
| 19:04.01 | minute-ssh | Ah kk |
| 19:04.15 | Maloeran | Every permutation can be solved in 26 moves or less... I think I'm more around 100 moves |
| 19:04.17 | alex_joni | Maloeran: /me starts to agree with wikipedia |
| 19:04.24 | ``Erik | and there're enough third party articles (both for this and several other issues) that I'm souring on wikipedia |
| 19:04.38 | ``Erik | my solution is two moves |
| 19:04.41 | ``Erik | ok, 3 |
| 19:04.44 | ``Erik | stab, twist, build |
| 19:04.53 | ``Erik | for any permutation :D |
| 19:05.13 | alex_joni | ``Erik: do that with the light switched off :) |
| 19:05.23 | archivist | yes |
| 19:05.29 | ``Erik | just as easy as doing it "normally"... |
| 19:05.39 | ``Erik | just like this *click* *stab* AHHH MY HAND! |
| 19:07.10 | Maloeran | We need to time your solution against mine :) |
| 19:08.04 | archivist | all the bits are red at that point so its easy to reassemble |
| 19:08.11 | ``Erik | sure, but bear in mind, I don't play by the rubik rules, so smacking the cube out of your hands or kicking you over is right up my alley :D |
| 19:09.16 | ``Erik | damn, I'm gettin' hungry :/ |
| 19:10.05 | ``Erik | heh, quality of the register... summed up... well... http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=382783&cid=21613301 |
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| 19:15.11 | alex_joni | haha.. this is nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudokube |
| 19:18.29 | Maloeran | Ah big deal, it needs orientation of the middle cubes :), it's pretty much a Rubik Cube |
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| 19:18.58 | alex_joni | Maloeran: how about a Megaminx? |
| 19:19.01 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:19.07 | ``Erik | this is making me want to write puzzle games. again. :/ |
| 19:19.09 | ``Erik | bastards |
| 19:19.13 | alex_joni | The 12-color Megaminx has exactly 100,669,616,553,523,347,122,516,032,313,645,505,168,688,116,411,019,768,627,200,000,000,000 different positions. |
| 19:19.45 | ``Erik | that could take a little time to brute force |
| 19:20.08 | archivist | a larger screwdriver |
| 19:20.16 | alex_joni | ``Erik: found your cube: http://images.thinkgeek.com/action/large/2108957.jpg |
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| 19:20.29 | ``Erik | mebbe some vicegrips to get the additional torque |
| 19:20.40 | ``Erik | :D |
| 19:20.44 | ``Erik | no |
| 19:20.55 | Maloeran | Ohh alex_joni, neat! |
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| 19:21.05 | ``Erik | after several 'screwdriver' wins, the stickers are fine, but the cubes get loose |
| 19:21.07 | Maloeran | Now I know what to ask for Christmas |
| 19:22.08 | ``Erik | HUMMMMMMMMm, maybe I should write a little puzzle game using, omfg, WEB TWO POINT OHHHHH |
| 19:22.16 | ``Erik | with a lithp backend |
| 19:22.20 | ``Erik | that would be thuper |
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| 19:23.37 | alex_joni | The full number is precisely 282,870,942,277,741,856,536,180,333,107,150,328,293,127,731,985,672,134,721,536,000,000,000,000,000 possible permutations (about 282 tresvigintillion on the short scale). |
| 19:23.52 | ``Erik | heh |
| 19:24.00 | ``Erik | and that's two to the what-th? |
| 19:24.08 | alex_joni | compute even.. although I suspect it's fairly fast in bc |
| 19:24.14 | alex_joni | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor's_Cube |
| 19:24.42 | ``Erik | heh http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html |
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| 20:44.53 | yukonbob | starseeker: whats the issue? |
| 20:50.54 | Maloeran | I'm on a gentoo amd64 box if you need testing |
| 20:51.05 | Maloeran | Though I don't see how a problem can be specific to this arch |
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| 20:55.45 | prasad1 | intel dev systems are a bunch of bricks |
| 20:55.58 | prasad1 | four systems, all fail to boot |
| 20:55.59 | prasad1 | :( |
| 21:02.58 | starseeker | Maloeran: It has to do with the paths being chosen for libraries |
| 21:03.16 | starseeker | Maloeran: Have you ever tried the gentoo ebuild in bugzilla? |
| 21:03.49 | starseeker | yukonbob: Things keep getting named lib when they're supposed to be named lib64 (or something like that) |
| 21:04.10 | Maloeran | I haven't tried, I tend to install manually whenever portage doesn't just work directly and instantly |
| 21:04.20 | Maloeran | ( Masked keywords or whatever, it likes to complain a lot ) |
| 21:06.16 | yukonbob | starseeker: lib vs lib64 -- is this for the paths? (ie: /usr/local/lib/foo.so or /usr/local/lib64/foo.so ?) |
| 21:08.59 | Z80-Boy | Do you know what I should put into a vegetables soup that tastes bland? |
| 21:09.11 | yukonbob | potatoes |
| 21:09.14 | Z80-Boy | I boiled just vegetables from the "vegetable soup" pack |
| 21:09.17 | starseeker | yukonbob: yes |
| 21:09.24 | Maloeran | Cumin |
| 21:09.40 | starseeker | Oh :-) |
| 21:09.40 | yukonbob | Z80-Boy: oh -- for a soup that's bland, not something bland to put into the soup ;) |
| 21:09.44 | yukonbob | celery |
| 21:09.54 | starseeker | Maloeran: Do you have a /usr/local/portage overlay? |
| 21:10.16 | Z80-Boy | Salt? |
| 21:10.41 | Z80-Boy | I put a whole onion in and fried a bit all the vegetables |
| 21:10.43 | starseeker | This ebuild SHOULD work smoothly. The path issue on AMD64 seems to be the remaining annoyance |
| 21:10.46 | Z80-Boy | I put cumin there |
| 21:11.11 | Z80-Boy | Not only my BRL-CAD video is out of sync because the encoder doesn't work properly... |
| 21:11.15 | yukonbob | starseeker: you must have an $ARCH variable or similar to test + adjust ./configure args accordingly, no? |
| 21:11.18 | Z80-Boy | But my soup also tastes *BLAND*! |
| 21:11.28 | Z80-Boy | The ultimate doom is impeding on me! |
| 21:11.37 | starseeker | yukonbob: Never tried that - that's an idea. |
| 21:13.03 | Z80-Boy | I just put an egg into it |
| 21:13.12 | starseeker | Hmm - ARCH isn't showing anything... |
| 21:14.14 | starseeker | I think the ARCH detection stuff is built into portage - at least, most of the ebuilds I've seen never do platform specific testing |
| 21:14.37 | yukonbob | if you don't have such a var (I'd be surprised if there not _something_ like it), you could use dmesg and parse that? |
| 21:15.08 | yukonbob | starseeker: if the ARCH stuff is buildin, you must have a way to query it though.. |
| 21:15.21 | starseeker | probably |
| 21:15.58 | starseeker | I don't know if it can "fake it" properly for a build though - the real test for this issue is to see whether an AMD64 system can load mged after the ebuild installs it |
| 21:16.11 | starseeker | It seems to have to do with what paths tcl is looking in |
| 21:17.40 | yukonbob | ~tea Tcl |
| 21:17.40 | ibot | ACTION realizes it's time for high tea and gets busy in the kitchen. He brings out tea, crumpets, scones and an assortment of delectable goodies and serves them properly to Tcl and others |
| 21:18.44 | ``Erik | bots on crack, wee |
| 21:19.08 | archivist | hmm I should have a tea module in my bot (especially as its named the_wench) |
| 21:20.06 | starseeker | Ah well - once 7.12 comes out there should be another round of interest |
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| 21:29.19 | ``Erik | I thought wenches served beer or mead, not tea |
| 21:29.19 | archivist | its had a !wench beer command for ages |
| 21:35.56 | yukonbob | starseeker: is this box you're working on your own personal machine? |
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| 21:56.53 | starseeker | yukonbob: Yes |
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| 03:22.47 | archivist | hehe about time too |
| 04:49.11 | yukonbob | for what definition of "ban"? |
| 05:09.50 | Axman6 | hmm, i think that brl-cad is just too fast for me. i need something more like http://labs.flog.co.nz/raytracer/ |
| 06:36.51 | yukonbob | nice -- it just crashed my firefox |
| 07:26.39 | Axman6 | heh |
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| 14:00.03 | ``Erik | didn't crash mine :D but anything other than th 20x20 view takes long enough to trigger the 'script not completed, terminate?" dialog |
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| 17:57.55 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you | |
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| 19:06.28 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 19:07.00 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/ <---7.11.0 |
| 19:09.45 | IriX64 | louipc, thanks for the vm link, still haven't played with it though |
| 19:09.55 | IriX64 | but i have it |
| 19:11.38 | IriX64 | louipc is redhat 5.0 too old to install on that thing? |
| 19:17.57 | brlcad | ah, such a good feeling to code for hours and then have it compile cleanly and work all on the first try |
| 19:18.59 | IriX64 | heh yea :) |
| 19:20.02 | brlcad | so IriX64, you really got 7.11.0 to compile or you just messed with 7.8.0's version numbers? :) |
| 19:20.30 | brlcad | it should be getting better on windows, bob's been making a lot of tweaks |
| 19:21.01 | IriX64 | actual compile brlcad no edit happines with the version :) |
| 19:21.20 | IriX64 | i'm staring at it right now |
| 19:22.12 | brlcad | did you have to change anything to get it to work? |
| 19:22.49 | IriX64 | not code, but the build stuff i played with, thought i pasted what i did to makefile.am. |
| 19:23.08 | IriX64 | oh and i have that funny bu_bomb issue i mentioned |
| 19:23.49 | IriX64 | and finally i added -lXft to X_LIBS |
| 19:24.00 | IriX64 | that allows a build |
| 19:27.26 | IriX64 | guess i could paste the mged about screen on the blog, gimmme a minute |
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| 19:30.56 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/ <--- there you go |
| 21:40.18 | Twingy | http://safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/images/images-251-300/photo270.jpg |
| 22:18.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for grp.h, check for geteuid() and getegid() -- used by libbu/stat.c for new file permission functions |
| 22:32.49 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: clean up and expand the permission/access/chmod defines for the S_I* defines so we can do the same on windows we do on non-windows. add missing X_OK and remove the two bogus ones for eof and HAVE_PWD_H |
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| 22:43.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/stat.c): |
| 22:43.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: add new file stat routines to libbu, bu_file_readable() and bu_file_writable() |
| 22:43.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: and bu_file_executable(), for determining permissions on a given file name for |
| 22:43.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: the current user. check the appropriate user, group, or other permission, and |
| 22:43.40 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: should work on windows too. these routines make it easy to completely avoid |
| 22:43.42 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: access() as well as a means to improve error checking throughout. |
| 22:53.22 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: don't use access, use the new bu_file_readable() function instead |
| 22:54.31 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: remove the access() approach in bu_file_exists() and take stat() for granted since it's c89 and doesn't have the security problems access has |
| 22:56.43 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: just in case we don't have the access() interface defines for R_OK, W_OK, and X_OK that we're privately using, define them if needed |
| 22:58.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't check for or use access(), leave a note that it's intentional. begin a comment about the functions we're specifically assuming are available (the well-behaved ones from c89). |
| 23:03.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't need HAVE_STAT or HAVE_ACCESS any more |
| 23:03.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: don't need to check for HAVE_STAT, assume it's available per c89 |
| 23:04.35 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't check for stat(). allow/begin slow and careful dechecking of well-behaved c89 functions. |
| 23:06.46 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/isst_python.c: shouldn't need to undef HAVE_STAT, no longer checked (not that it should matter) |
| 23:07.01 | ``Erik | heh |
| 23:07.17 | ``Erik | d'no why you're dorking in that directory, isst_python is probably going away on tuesday :D |
| 23:17.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: use the new bu_file_readable() routine instead of access() along with bu_file_exists() when unable to open a new file. |
| 23:22.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: use the new bu_file_writable() routine instead of access() along with bu_file_exists() when creating the new file. |
| 23:23.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bw-rle.c: use bu_file_exists() instead of access() |
| 23:24.38 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pix-orle.c pix-rle.c): use bu_file_exists() instead of access() |
| 23:31.31 | brlcad | just being thorough |
| 23:31.44 | brlcad | more effort to ignore it |
| 23:35.02 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 00:28.18 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fopen_uniq.c: add comment that we can't call bu_log here because of the semaphore |
| 00:37.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/halftone/main.c: quell warning |
| 00:37.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/animedit.c: check buffer length whilest printing into the buffers |
| 00:38.36 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: use mkstemp instead of mktemp since we can (old sgi section) |
| 00:49.44 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/remapid.c: looks like the libbu/file.c functions were just dumped into here. rename the functions to not look like they're still bu_ functions. ugly hacked file. no donut for pjt. |
| 00:52.24 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: wow, there are even two copies of the old file.c function decls, and none of them exist any longer. -1 donut for pjt |
| 00:52.43 | ``Erik | hahhahaha |
| 00:53.32 | ``Erik | that's why pjt went back to school for math, not computer science :D *duck* |
| 04:02.21 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: handle null/empty path |
| 04:03.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: geez, finish typing before hitting the send |
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| 05:30.31 | IriX64 | http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/ castle |
| 05:31.49 | IriX64 | that was with Xming btw |
| 06:48.39 | yukonbob | ``Erik / brlcad -- either you online -- /me thinks he needs account pw reset |
| 07:06.31 | yukonbob | nm... |
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| 17:33.11 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: heh, oops -- stat returns 0 on success, -1 on failure. |
| 19:58.30 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: can you do cutbacks on the surfboard? |
| 19:58.50 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: or do a sharp turn and put your hand on the water? |
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| 21:40.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 21:40.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: initial addition and implementation of bu_temp_file() -- a relatively secure |
| 21:40.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: means to create a temporary file for use by applications. this implementation |
| 21:40.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: should work on most platforms including Windows that support either mkstemp |
| 21:40.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: (POSIX) or tmpfile_s (ISO/IEC TR 24731-1) and should conform to the CERT secure |
| 21:40.52 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: coding of temporary file recommendations. bu_temp_file() presently doesn't take |
| 21:40.54 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: any arguments, though that may change if needed by apps. it does, however, |
| 21:41.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add temp.c to the build |
| 21:42.28 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add temp.c to the vc6 build |
| 21:44.15 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: use BU_ASSERT instead of assert -- though it's questionable as to whether BU_LIST_CLOSE needs to even exist.. it's apparently not used anywhere. |
| 21:45.55 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows have tmpfile_s() .. declare the underscored TMP_MAX_S |
| 21:47.01 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: need to check fo mkstemp() and tmpfile_s() for the new bu_temp_file() interface. |
| 21:48.51 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): add temp.c to the vc7 and vc8 build |
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| 01:41.56 | ``Erik | hum, http://hypertriton.com/cadtools/ |
| 01:54.37 | ``Erik | perhaps they don't know about BRL-CAD? or were too disturbed by the interface or complexity? :D |
| 01:55.02 | starseeker | Could be :-) |
| 01:55.21 | starseeker | One would hope they did at least minimal research into available code before starting from scratch... |
| 01:57.30 | ``Erik | hu |
| 01:57.30 | ``Erik | hum |
| 01:57.30 | ``Erik | one would hope, but it rarely happens |
| 01:57.50 | starseeker | I guess open source programmers aren't lazy enough ;-) |
| 01:58.14 | ``Erik | I have a fairly simple program I put out in '02, and half a dozen almost identical programs showed up on freshmeat in '06 and '07 |
| 01:59.25 | ``Erik | and there're a few versions of "ping" floating around, with parallel development of almost identical features... *shrug* |
| 02:01.42 | starseeker | Hehe |
| 02:02.17 | starseeker | militant ping - retake the forks |
| 02:14.29 | ``Erik | well, original organization standing up and saying "we're still here, guys!" |
| 02:22.55 | yukonbob | anybody seen Beowulf in theatres yet? |
| 02:25.31 | starseeker | nope |
| 02:26.56 | starseeker | Beowulf sounds interesting, if a bit bloody |
| 02:27.47 | poolio | Beowulf wasn't very good |
| 02:28.39 | ``Erik | the book was interesting |
| 02:28.58 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 02:30.32 | starseeker | Compass seems to be annoying various religious organizations - I must not have a very clear idea of the plot |
| 02:32.27 | starseeker | poolio: What didn't you like about it? |
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| 02:36.29 | yukonbob | looks like cadtools is going to give brl-cad a run for it's money in designing squares... |
| 02:36.45 | yukonbob | poolio: tell us more about Beowulf |
| 02:38.14 | yukonbob | 70% on rotten tomatores |
| 02:38.16 | yukonbob | *tomatoes |
| 02:45.47 | poolio | I mean, it just wasn't very good. The animation was pretty cool, but I never liked the original story that much. That being said, it's still alright and probably worth seeing. |
| 03:40.49 | louipc | looks like the cadtools people just like to do things their own way... they have their own gui library, their own 3d engine... |
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| 04:10.46 | louipc | vedge_: hi |
| 04:11.48 | vedge_ | hey |
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| 05:32.25 | brlcad | louipc: spot on reason if you ask me |
| 05:32.33 | brlcad | nibm syndrome |
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| 07:32.53 | Defcon | morning all |
| 07:32.55 | Defcon | happy hacking |
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| 13:53.51 | brlcad | hello Defcon |
| 14:00.51 | Defcon | hi brlcad |
| 14:22.08 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/tie_define.h libtienet/tienet_util.h): include stdint.h for the various c99 standard integer types. this should fix sf bug [ 1847278 ] "Fails to compile at tienet" from James Millar - j_dmillar. |
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| 17:07.16 | Maloeran | I'm now constantly below 2m30s, without studying it first of course |
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| 21:56.50 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Removed a few unused methods. |
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| 22:01.45 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Initial check-in. This is intended to be the base class for application classes (i.e. Archer). |
| 22:03.48 | yukonbob | afternoon, cadheads |
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| 06:09.05 | louipc | Maloeran: hey man how much RAM do you have for your 8 cores? |
| 06:35.34 | brlcad | anything less than 16GB would be indecent |
| 06:36.09 | yukonbob | :) |
| 06:41.52 | yukonbob | *org |
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| 07:50.52 | brlcad | :) |
| 07:51.53 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: indent consistency |
| 07:53.25 | Defcon | that sound dirty, yukonbob |
| 07:53.27 | Defcon | :) |
| 07:53.53 | yukonbob | Defcon: heh -- now it does. |
| 07:57.43 | Defcon | :) |
| 07:58.04 | Defcon | sounds too |
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| 14:54.37 | Defcon | yeah, we have sdsl at work now :) http://www.speedtest.net/result/211011195.png |
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| 16:21.33 | Z80-Boy | Who listens do dance music? |
| 16:23.35 | Z80-Boy | do you know the Ogg Vorbis format? |
| 16:23.43 | brlcad | who doesn't |
| 16:24.06 | Z80-Boy | mplayer http://netshow.play.cz:8000/danceradio128.ogg |
| 16:24.32 | Z80-Boy | now they are talking for a while... |
| 16:24.45 | Z80-Boy | but otherwise they play bombs! |
| 16:25.02 | prasad_ | wha? |
| 16:25.14 | brlcad | now whether I have a vorbis decoder installed at the moment.. another matter altogether |
| 16:25.31 | Z80-Boy | replace 128 with 256 or 64 or 32 |
| 16:25.51 | Z80-Boy | now they play what they always play in our gym :) |
| 16:29.38 | Z80-Boy | Czech republic seems to be #1 in Ogg Vorbis deployment |
| 16:30.00 | Z80-Boy | The state radio had a Vorbis stream already as back as in 2001. |
| 18:52.06 | minute | http://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=6 |
| 19:41.39 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
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| 21:28.21 | yukonbob | ~lart the quiet room |
| 21:28.21 | ibot | raises middle finger to the quiet room |
| 21:28.27 | yukonbob | :) |
| 21:29.09 | yukonbob | ~lart warnings from ibot |
| 21:29.09 | ibot | farts in warnings from ibot's general direction |
| 22:39.32 | ``Erik | ~lart lart |
| 22:39.32 | ibot | blasts lart with a huge firehose then strangles lart with it |
| 22:39.48 | ``Erik | haHA, recursive implosion! |
| 22:42.51 | brlcad | minute: very cool progress |
| 22:43.16 | brlcad | looks great under safari, just a few minor issues |
| 22:43.40 | brlcad | IE6 looks way way better, but still several big problems with the bezels |
| 22:44.14 | brlcad | seems the quote in the footer is broken or really really tiny |
| 22:51.50 | brlcad | (and the download link is 404'd) |
| 23:06.02 | prasad_ | the footer frame or layer produces ugly scrollbars |
| 23:06.15 | prasad_ | ie7 |
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| 00:13.55 | louipc | I'd say get rid of the whole footer thing |
| 00:14.12 | louipc | it's just fluff |
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| 01:21.03 | PrezKennedy | not fair |
| 01:21.18 | PrezKennedy | apparently there was one walking distance from where i live now about 5 years back |
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| 03:33.15 | starseeker | :-) |
| 03:34.41 | starseeker | I now vaguely remember reading that texlive was supposed to be the future, but given that they are STILL distributing their system via an ISO image I'm not really reassured... |
| 03:41.58 | starseeker | brlcad: Just curious - are there any plans to make the IRC archives searchable? |
| 04:47.09 | brlcad | starseeker: I've set stuff up in the past for the channel, but to date hasn't been anything worth maintaining until the new website goes on-line |
| 04:47.31 | starseeker | Ah, point. |
| 04:47.43 | brlcad | I could see setting something up afterwards though so that the channel logs are auto-archived and searchable through the site as docs or something |
| 04:48.21 | starseeker | It's often a good way to go back and find an earlier discussion on a topic, or at least I find it to be useful in #lisp |
| 04:50.37 | brlcad | yeah, I generally use my own logs for that - the beauty of a persistent server connection running irssi in screen |
| 04:50.49 | brlcad | but it would make a nice general feature |
| 04:53.16 | brlcad | I actually have a "complete" log of all my irc chatter ever stated/received/seen, going back many many years that I rummage through every now and then |
| 04:53.32 | brlcad | it's fun to read a conversation I've had with someone five years later |
| 04:53.44 | starseeker | :-) |
| 04:54.52 | brlcad | I think I even have old icq sessions stashed away from the mid 90's somewhere |
| 04:56.12 | starseeker | Such conversations can actually contain a lot of useful knowledge, advice and examples if you happen to remember the right keywords to locate 'em |
| 04:56.14 | brlcad | part of my data "archive" that has just about everything that I've ever done on a computer, I'm a digital pack rat purist |
| 04:56.58 | starseeker | As long as hard drives continue to expand faster than we generate logs, why not? |
| 04:57.13 | brlcad | GB's of spam logs that I used to even stash just for historical/hysterical purposes |
| 04:58.04 | brlcad | yeah, I've been constantly upgrading to the next biggest drive every couple years as I expand my capacity |
| 04:58.12 | starseeker | er ads |
| 04:58.29 | starseeker | Are they up to terabyte drives yet? |
| 04:58.44 | brlcad | yeah, WD has one for just a few hundred |
| 04:58.49 | starseeker | sweeet |
| 04:58.51 | brlcad | external enclosure |
| 04:59.26 | starseeker | and I thought this was a big drive at the time, darn it... |
| 05:00.06 | brlcad | you can actually buy 2TB externals pretty easily now, ever since hitachi came out with their single-drive 1TB's about a year ago |
| 05:00.25 | starseeker | Wow. |
| 05:01.32 | brlcad | I've had over a TB when it was more than a buck a GB |
| 05:01.47 | starseeker | Yeow |
| 05:01.55 | brlcad | heh, hell, I remember spending $350 for a 300MB drive back when my data archive was just getting started |
| 05:03.21 | brlcad | depends what you make part of the base OS |
| 05:03.31 | brlcad | is that just the kernel, or is that user-space too |
| 05:04.05 | brlcad | if it's user-space, is it just base command-line tools, or does it include a gui .. even for either, what apps are included and what are not |
| 05:04.37 | starseeker | I guess up to and including the full KDE desktop and supporting utilities/libs |
| 05:04.43 | starseeker | might be a useful benchmark |
| 05:05.59 | brlcad | I'd say for a general purpose OS that your traditional editors like vim and emacs are essential, and that already jumps you up to about 75MB :) |
| 05:06.31 | starseeker | point ;-). |
| 05:06.39 | brlcad | base command-line userspace is probably 100-500MB for 'everything' "necessary" |
| 05:06.47 | starseeker | Although some might argue with Emacs in there you're getting close to a full OS already... |
| 05:06.54 | brlcad | gui is probably 2x to 10x that :) |
| 05:07.58 | starseeker | Or I suppose you could take this guy's approach: http://www.menuetos.net/ |
| 05:08.04 | starseeker | :-P |
| 05:09.43 | starseeker | I guess as usual there are the tradeoffs between simplicity/transparency and performance in space and time. |
| 05:09.50 | brlcad | ahh, he's still at it |
| 05:10.06 | starseeker | you know him? |
| 05:10.46 | brlcad | no, not really -- but I read about menuetos about two years ago |
| 05:10.51 | brlcad | i think he'd just started |
| 05:11.13 | starseeker | Ah. I'm very impressed, but I can't help wondering if he's off his meds a bit or something ;-) |
| 05:11.57 | brlcad | yeah, pretty cool but exceptionally impractical |
| 05:12.33 | brlcad | lightweight, but lacking 90% of the stuff most come to take for granted |
| 05:13.03 | starseeker | Right. Reminds me a bit of that realtime OS demo someone made back in the late ninties |
| 05:13.16 | starseeker | Q something |
| 05:13.41 | starseeker | QNX |
| 05:13.43 | starseeker | that was it |
| 05:13.58 | brlcad | i mean, most/many OS's actually started like that with some "pure" philosophical approach... back in the 70's and 80's |
| 05:14.17 | brlcad | some in assembler, some C, some hybrid, etc |
| 05:14.27 | brlcad | heh, QNX is still around |
| 05:14.40 | starseeker | Yes, but I think they've move beyond floppy demos |
| 05:14.55 | brlcad | heh, far beyond |
| 05:15.11 | brlcad | qnx is one of the defacto OS's for embedded systems development |
| 05:15.16 | brlcad | one of the best RTOS's |
| 05:15.38 | starseeker | Yes, they got a lot of press a while back - there was some hope they'd go open source but I don't think it ever happened. |
| 05:15.55 | brlcad | they went open source a month or two ago |
| 05:16.04 | starseeker | Really?? |
| 05:16.41 | brlcad | unless I'm mixing them up with someone else |
| 05:17.02 | brlcad | yeah, two months ago |
| 05:17.03 | brlcad | http://www.qnx.com/news/pr_2471_1.html |
| 05:17.12 | brlcad | there was even a /. on it iirc |
| 05:17.47 | starseeker | Confound it, I always seem to miss the best slashdot articles and get the political rants... |
| 05:18.10 | brlcad | so you pick up on sage without skipping a beat, but entirely missed qnx :) |
| 05:18.22 | starseeker | Hehe - you spotted that eh? |
| 05:19.29 | starseeker | I caught the SAGE article, but it turns out I missed an earlier one (arguably more important) about the AMS opinion piece calling for more support for open source computational software |
| 05:21.02 | starseeker | Well hot diggity, Sept 12th 2007 |
| 05:22.05 | starseeker | brlcad: have y'all looked at SAGE at the ARL or is it pretty orthogonal to what you need? |
| 05:25.32 | starseeker | Meh - QNX is only free for non-commercial stuff. No wonder it didn't make a bigger splash |
| 05:46.10 | brlcad | fairly orthogonal |
| 05:46.41 | brlcad | at least for our primary purposes, I'm sure some analysts could put it to good use if they knew how |
| 05:48.56 | brlcad | howdy yukonbob |
| 05:53.12 | yukonbob | hey brlcad. What's shaking? |
| 05:55.52 | brlcad | not much |
| 05:56.13 | brlcad | getting ready to have teeth finally ripped out of my head |
| 05:56.32 | yukonbob | wisdom teeth, or other "bad" teeth? |
| 05:56.34 | brlcad | been at least a decade in the coming |
| 05:56.38 | brlcad | wisdoms |
| 05:56.48 | yukonbob | had 4 done at once. |
| 05:57.21 | brlcad | yeah, I got to get all 4 out, horribly impacted, but I'm going to do them two at a time |
| 05:57.49 | yukonbob | something in tea is a good thing for the wounds -- stuff a moist tea bag in your mouth if you need it (/me would have to research to find out what it does at all...) |
| 05:59.14 | yukonbob | http://www.tricountyoms.com/surgical/wisdom_tooth_removal.html -- search for tea bag |
| 06:03.06 | brlcad | yeah, the tannic acid |
| 06:03.13 | brlcad | use them in crew too |
| 06:04.03 | yukonbob | ?"in crew" |
| 06:04.03 | brlcad | they can help anethestize and harden up your hands for rowing if you're not yet callous or if you're blistered |
| 06:04.03 | brlcad | crew rowing |
| 06:04.09 | yukonbob | ah |
| 06:05.11 | brlcad | iinteresting |
| 06:05.17 | brlcad | that's a new one to me |
| 06:05.46 | yukonbob | get ``Erik to try it out after some red-eye experience and let us know if it works. |
| 06:07.41 | brlcad | I get red-eye after a really intense cardio workout in the gym |
| 06:08.05 | brlcad | sauna can do it too, whenever I push up past 95% of my MHR for a long period of time |
| 06:08.40 | brlcad | or otherwise exhaust extensively |
| 06:08.44 | brlcad | i might have to try that sometime |
| 06:15.59 | yukonbob | so I was trying to get the imgs into my docbook work other day, and the only thing that I can get to work is using ps/eps -- can't source jpg, png, gif, etc. |
| 06:17.09 | yukonbob | I still have more I can dig for to see what's going on (/me believes it's TeX not knowing the size, and needing a parameter, but I don't know how to send it to TeX w/i the Docbook realm)... |
| 06:17.15 | brlcad | if you can get ps to work, everything else should be trivial |
| 06:17.55 | yukonbob | well, I can use .ps. It's not the ideal format for all gfx, but it does work. |
| 06:18.05 | brlcad | oooh, using ps just for the images |
| 06:18.09 | brlcad | though you meant as the output fmt |
| 06:18.14 | yukonbob | oh no --- |
| 06:18.18 | yukonbob | for including the gfx. |
| 06:18.33 | brlcad | odd that the image formats wouldn't work |
| 06:18.40 | brlcad | they have sizes embedded |
| 06:18.46 | yukonbob | ps (eps) works nice because TeX knows it's size by the %boundingbox |
| 06:20.01 | yukonbob | *done it before with pure LaTeX |
| 06:26.26 | brlcad | you're using jade? |
| 06:26.43 | brlcad | it's supposed to be fairly seamless for embedded imagery |
| 06:27.17 | yukonbob | well... |
| 06:27.33 | brlcad | yeah .. "supposed to be" |
| 06:27.37 | yukonbob | it may be -- but atm I haven't figured out the incantations required |
| 06:27.43 | brlcad | going by tests from many years ago and second hand comments :) |
| 06:27.56 | brlcad | have fun :) |
| 06:28.00 | yukonbob | ;) |
| 06:28.19 | yukonbob | I'm sure it's possible -- it's too basic a thing to not have been solved. |
| 06:28.37 | yukonbob | The info just isn't readily available when I want it ;) |
| 06:29.12 | yukonbob | after I figure it out -- every search I do, every article I read, every conversation I have will contain this info... but in the meantime, it elludes me ;) |
| 06:29.45 | yukonbob | ?eludes |
| 06:31.02 | yukonbob | *eludes |
| 06:31.12 | yukonbob | . |
| 06:32.03 | poolio | ah, I have to learn latex for next semester : |
| 06:33.08 | yukonbob | poolio: it's neat. Emacs + AUCTeX are your friends. |
| 06:34.27 | poolio | heh, I still haven't tried out emacs...still using good 'ol vim |
| 06:34.28 | yukonbob | ...and the "Not So Short Guide to LaTeX" |
| 06:35.20 | yukonbob | poolio: what do you need it for? |
| 06:35.48 | poolio | A math course I'm taking requires homework be typed |
| 06:36.07 | yukonbob | what OS do you run? |
| 06:36.50 | poolio | yukonbob: currently linux, sometimes freebsd |
| 06:37.47 | yukonbob | mm --- you'll probably want to install teTeX (Thomas Essers distro of LaTeX (Leslie Lamports extensions to TeX (Knuths typesetting language)))... |
| 06:38.09 | poolio | Wow, am I reading English or LISP :) |
| 06:38.22 | yukonbob | T |
| 06:38.23 | yukonbob | ? |
| 06:38.42 | poolio | ah nothing, just lots of parathesis |
| 06:38.48 | poolio | I think I missed an n in there... |
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| 12:51.24 | starseeker | yukonbob: Just curious - which tex distribution do you have installed? I just switched over to texlive after being reminded that tetex is no longer maintained |
| 12:51.52 | starseeker | I see you recommending tetex, but that might not be the best long term option... |
| 12:52.16 | starseeker | poolio: You might want to check out Lyx or TeXmacs if you prefer a GUI to straight LaTeX |
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| 14:16.18 | ``Erik | ooh, tcl 8.5 in debian testing now |
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| 16:02.57 | Z80-Boy | I want to put a picture on a background of rotating BRL-CAD model video |
| 16:03.16 | Z80-Boy | And want to be sure it works reliably even if the model happens to contain the same colour as the background |
| 16:05.18 | Z80-Boy | I would also like to get the output RGB in double format, because then I could calculate the maximum channel value and auto-exposure it so it doesn't get neither under-exposed or over-exposed |
| 17:52.44 | minute | brlcad: Thank you, any idea when you'll be able to take a look at LDAP? |
| 17:53.55 | minute | And darn, I forgot about the broken footer. |
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| 18:03.19 | ``Erik | minute: probably not for at least a few days, he's somewhat incapacitated :) fistfight with a tire iron or something |
| 18:14.53 | PrezKennedy | ouch... is brlcad ok? |
| 18:25.13 | minute | ``Erik: I hope that was metaphorical. ;) |
| 18:29.31 | ``Erik | hehehe I've probably said too much :D he'll probably be online soon, but probably not tearing into code or sysadmin stuff |
| 18:31.03 | minute | Sure. |
| 19:09.04 | ``Erik | <Mercury> emacs sucks, literally, not a insult, just a comment that its large enough to have a noticeable gravitational pull... |
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| 19:46.01 | archivist | hehe |
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| 20:56.47 | yukonbob | starseeker: I'm using teTex -- I looked into texlive briefly -- I haven't swapped out because atm, I don't know what the point would be -- I have _not_ dug too deeply into the differences, but at it's age, I can't see there being radical differences between texlive/tetex, as the result of massive bug fixes, for example.. . |
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| 22:58.49 | ``Erik | a/det |
| 00:56.13 | ``Erik | ho hum |
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| 03:44.09 | dtidrow | ``Erik: Emacs - the original IDE ;-) |
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| 13:59.42 | Defcon | w00t |
| 13:59.50 | Defcon | the users liked my app :) |
| 14:11.12 | alex_joni | what app? |
| 14:31.48 | Defcon | "SelfStorage Management System" |
| 14:31.57 | Defcon | or short: SMS |
| 14:31.58 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:32.15 | Defcon | ASP.net Intranet Application for my company |
| 14:32.34 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 14:33.48 | alex_joni | Defcon: sounds nice.. is it supposed to do anything? |
| 14:34.06 | Defcon | yeah, not crash |
| 14:34.07 | Defcon | :) |
| 14:34.33 | Defcon | it's used to follow the production automaticly |
| 14:34.51 | Defcon | with barcodes that are scanned & stuff |
| 14:50.49 | alex_joni | oh.. sweet :) |
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| 15:19.28 | Defcon | installing Visual C++ as we speak |
| 15:35.35 | Defcon | Add common header files for: |
| 15:35.35 | Defcon | ATL |
| 15:35.36 | Defcon | MFC |
| 15:35.42 | Defcon | should i do that |
| 15:35.53 | Defcon | i can check ATL and/or MFC |
| 15:36.16 | alex_joni | mfc is quite common |
| 15:37.19 | Defcon | what does it mean? |
| 15:38.08 | Defcon | btw: i'm creating a new C++ Console application in Visual Studio 2005 for the first time |
| 15:43.12 | Defcon | hmm |
| 15:43.13 | Defcon | if (!AfxWinInit(::GetModuleHandle(NULL), NULL, ::GetCommandLine(), 0)) |
| 15:43.15 | Defcon | what? |
| 15:43.18 | Defcon | is that? |
| 15:54.49 | Defcon | w00t |
| 15:54.49 | Defcon | cout << "Hello world"; |
| 15:54.49 | Defcon | system("PAUSE"); |
| 15:54.51 | Defcon | :p |
| 15:55.36 | Defcon | enough C for today |
| 15:55.36 | Defcon | :) |
| 16:03.54 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Added a few more methods. Also some minor cleanup. |
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| 16:42.18 | brlcad | wisdom too |
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| 16:43.50 | prasad_ | hangover? |
| 16:44.00 | brlcad | nah, teeth pulled |
| 16:49.13 | Z80-Boy | Is it a good programming practice to make a function with 336 lines? |
| 17:01.10 | minute | Ahh, so that is what ``Erik meant. |
| 17:03.05 | elite01 | Z80-Boy, imo, totally :) |
| 17:03.16 | elite01 | as long as it makes sense... |
| 17:03.24 | elite01 | i see no reason for it to be shorter |
| 17:03.51 | Z80-Boy | and have it with a totally broken indentation? |
| 17:04.03 | elite01 | that should be fixed |
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| 18:06.21 | brlcad | it's not good or bad practice, and looking at just line count would be a horrible metric all by itself |
| 19:09.26 | alex_joni | ouch :) |
| 19:44.03 | ``Erik | I like to try to keep functions no longer than one page length, but that doesn't always happen... |
| 19:44.27 | ``Erik | and "page length" is awfully subjective, I have a lot less lines than brlcad due to my massive font size :D |
| 19:44.51 | ``Erik | comes out to ~50 on my laptop |
| 19:46.09 | ``Erik | a better metric is probably if the function of the function can be easily described without ambiguities... :D |
| 20:01.53 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: remove authorship/origin info from header, innaccurately documents what is already tracked by version control |
| 20:01.54 | yukonbob | ^--- yup -- or that it can fit in your head w/o swapping. |
| 20:02.16 | yukonbob | (above re: functions) |
| 20:02.32 | brlcad | less than a page is generally a pretty good metric -- that generally is a "page of context" for most people, re swapping |
| 20:02.49 | brlcad | performance issues notwithstanding, of course |
| 20:03.06 | alex_joni | depends on the construction.. on straightforward stuff, sometimes a "page of context" can be quite long |
| 20:03.38 | alex_joni | nested stuff tend to really shorten the "page" imo |
| 20:03.56 | brlcad | yep, depends on a lot .. bug a decent "general rule of thumb" |
| 20:04.24 | brlcad | people rarely go too short -- but often go way too long |
| 20:04.58 | alex_joni | well.. there are functions which are "file" long, instead of "page" long on the project I work on.. it's *really* easy to start swapping/trashing |
| 20:07.21 | brlcad | yeah, that's close to the convention in C++ to have one class per file |
| 20:07.33 | brlcad | or many other OO langs for that matter |
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| 20:54.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modifications to use ArcherCore. Note - there are still a few issues that need attention. |
| 20:58.47 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (4 files): Mods related to using ArcherCore. |
| 21:00.33 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Removed a debug statement. |
| 21:04.55 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Minor cleanup. |
| 21:06.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: define uid_t and gid_t |
| 21:07.17 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: declare Tclcad_Init |
| 21:09.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj: Added tclcad.c |
| 21:10.44 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Mods related to using ArcherCore |
| 21:12.32 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: Initial check-in. This provides the interface for dynamically loading via Tcl. |
| 21:43.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: |
| 21:43.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: modify bu_temp_file() so that we can capture the name of the temporary file that |
| 21:43.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: was created along with the opened file descriptor. this requires ditching |
| 21:43.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: tmpfile_s() entirely on windows since it returns anonymous files, instead |
| 21:43.06 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: providing an implementation of mkstemp() for platforms like Windows that don't |
| 21:43.09 | CIA-5 | BRL-CAD: provide it. |
| 22:24.06 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-5 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 23:17.52 | *** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net) | |
| 23:20.45 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-42 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 02:25.34 | *** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 02:49.34 | *** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org) | |
| 03:05.50 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 05:46.57 | *** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161) | |
| 07:08.16 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 07:41.16 | *** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be) | |
| 07:55.27 | Defcon | yeah |
| 07:55.45 | Defcon | yesterday i did my first C console app: "Hello World" |
| 07:56.11 | Defcon | so now it's time to make my own standalone multi process webserver |
| 07:56.15 | Defcon | :) |
| 07:56.38 | yukonbob | Defcon: let's see your code!!!1 |
| 07:56.48 | Defcon | hello world? |
| 07:56.52 | yukonbob | yup |
| 07:57.00 | Defcon | k |
| 07:57.18 | Defcon | _tprintf(_T("Hello world\n")); |
| 07:57.22 | yukonbob | have you thought of what license you're going to release it under? |
| 07:57.39 | Defcon | or |
| 07:57.40 | Defcon | cout << "Hello world\n"; |
| 07:57.42 | yukonbob | ?C |
| 07:57.45 | Defcon | gpl? |
| 07:57.51 | yukonbob | that's C++ |
| 07:57.56 | Defcon | yeah |
| 07:58.02 | yukonbob | C++ != C |
| 07:58.07 | Defcon | i have no C compiler at home |
| 07:58.16 | Defcon | *work |
| 07:58.17 | yukonbob | well, C++ ought to be a superset of C |
| 07:58.33 | Defcon | yeah i thought so |
| 08:00.36 | yukonbob | you need #include <stdio>, #include <stdlib> int main (int argc, char **argv) {printf ("Hello, whirled!\n"); exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);} |
| 08:01.01 | yukonbob | ^--- obviously not formatted properly |
| 08:05.57 | alex_joni | yukonbob: you just need '\' there, and it's formatted about right :D |
| 08:06.27 | yukonbob | alex_joni: will the CPP choke on the includes, or is that what you're saying the \ is for? |
| 08:07.13 | Defcon | #include "stdafx.h" |
| 08:07.13 | Defcon | #include "consoleCodeTry.h" |
| 08:07.13 | Defcon | #ifdef _DEBUG |
| 08:07.13 | Defcon | #define new DEBUG_NEW |
| 08:07.13 | Defcon | #endif |
| 08:07.14 | Defcon | CWinApp theApp; |
| 08:07.16 | Defcon | using namespace std; |
| 08:07.18 | Defcon | int _tmain(int argc, TCHAR* argv[], TCHAR* envp[]) |
| 08:07.20 | Defcon | { |
| 08:07.22 | Defcon | int nRetCode = 0; |
| 08:07.24 | Defcon | if (!AfxWinInit(::GetModuleHandle(NULL), NULL, ::GetCommandLine(), 0)) |
| 08:07.26 | Defcon | { |
| 08:07.28 | Defcon | _tprintf(_T("Fatal Error: MFC initialization failed\n")); |
| 08:07.30 | Defcon | nRetCode = 1; |
| 08:07.32 | Defcon | } |
| 08:07.34 | Defcon | else |
| 08:07.34 | yukonbob | arg!!!! |
| 08:07.36 | Defcon | { |
| 08:07.38 | Defcon | _tprintf(_T("Hello world\n")); |
| 08:07.40 | Defcon | system("PAUSE"); |
| 08:07.42 | Defcon | } |
| 08:07.44 | Defcon | return nRetCode; |
| 08:07.46 | Defcon | } |
| 08:07.48 | Defcon | that is everything |
| 08:07.50 | Defcon | whatwhatWHAT? |
| 08:07.52 | yukonbob | ~pastebin |
| 08:07.55 | ibot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste |
| 08:08.08 | Defcon | hmm |
| 08:08.10 | Defcon | nice |
| 08:08.18 | alex_joni | yukonbob: it will choke |
| 08:08.41 | Defcon | http://pastebin.com/m68797761 |
| 08:08.52 | Defcon | lol alex |
| 08:11.12 | Defcon | hmmm |
| 08:11.22 | Defcon | so i should throw C++ away |
| 08:11.44 | yukonbob | oh -- that's up to you.. |
| 08:12.02 | Defcon | indeed it is |
| 08:12.08 | Defcon | but.. |
| 08:12.10 | yukonbob | apparently is quite a task to learn, though (might want to just use C to start) |
| 08:12.24 | Defcon | that's what i wanted to do :) |
| 08:12.27 | Defcon | learn C |
| 08:12.37 | yukonbob | ...and it depends, is this required for anything, or self-improvement, or ?? |
| 08:12.50 | Defcon | but the C++ is the only C like compiler i have atm |
| 08:13.06 | Defcon | self-improvement mostly |
| 08:13.23 | yukonbob | does c++ seem interesting to you? |
| 08:13.39 | yukonbob | heh |
| 08:13.42 | Axman6 | *cough* |
| 08:13.42 | Defcon | no |
| 08:13.56 | yukonbob | :? -- so why are you studying it |
| 08:14.02 | Defcon | it seems like a big pile of gibberisch to me |
| 08:14.08 | Defcon | because i have this: http://wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip |
| 08:14.15 | Defcon | Maloeran's ev |
| 08:14.28 | Defcon | and i want to be able to understand it |
| 08:14.34 | Defcon | so i can edit it |
| 08:14.41 | Defcon | to make it bugfree and stuff |
| 08:14.44 | yukonbob | what is that thing you posted? |
| 08:15.07 | Defcon | a webbased C game made by Maloeran |
| 08:15.18 | Defcon | with standalone webserver |
| 08:15.18 | yukonbob | C, or C++ |
| 08:15.24 | Defcon | C |
| 08:15.47 | Defcon | [09:12:49] <Defcon> but the C++ is the only C like compiler i have atm |
| 08:16.35 | Defcon | that's why |
| 08:16.55 | yukonbob | try raw C in it and see what happens |
| 08:17.08 | Defcon | .. |
| 08:17.15 | Defcon | make me an hello world :) |
| 08:17.23 | yukonbob | use the one I posted ;) |
| 08:17.34 | Defcon | i have no idea what the diff is between C and C++ |
| 08:17.35 | Defcon | ah |
| 08:17.35 | Defcon | k |
| 08:18.26 | Defcon | Error1fatal error C1010: unexpected end of file while looking for precompiled header. Did you forget to add '#include "stdafx.h"' to your source?c:\wbe\wazigbe\webroot\_dev\consolecodetry\consolecodetry\consolecodetry.cpp7 |
| 08:18.30 | Defcon | hmm |
| 08:19.11 | yukonbob | might require flags for your compiler? (what compiler are you using?) |
| 08:19.27 | Defcon | C++ |
| 08:19.33 | Defcon | Visual Studio 2005 |
| 08:21.23 | alex_joni | it's <stdafx.h> not "stdafx.h" |
| 08:21.35 | Defcon | the "" work |
| 08:21.38 | alex_joni | default system headers are always between "<>" |
| 08:21.54 | Defcon | k |
| 08:22.14 | Defcon | system(PAUSE); |
| 08:22.22 | Defcon | what was the right syntax of this? |
| 08:22.32 | Defcon | system("PAUSE"); ? |
| 08:22.33 | alex_joni | Defcon: giyf :) |
| 08:22.40 | Defcon | giyf? |
| 08:22.47 | Defcon | :) |
| 08:22.52 | yukonbob | ciao alex_joni |
| 08:22.56 | yukonbob | ciao Defcon |
| 08:23.07 | alex_joni | http://www.google.com/search?q=giyf |
| 08:23.31 | Defcon | cya |
| 08:23.39 | Defcon | ah |
| 08:23.39 | Defcon | haha |
| 08:23.41 | Defcon | :) |
| 08:23.45 | Defcon | anyway |
| 08:23.46 | Defcon | http://pastebin.com/m5f1af3cb |
| 08:23.50 | Defcon | that works |
| 08:23.50 | Defcon | :) |
| 08:24.57 | Defcon | man i should rtfm |
| 08:25.54 | yukonbob | get "The C Programming Language" |
| 08:26.30 | alex_joni | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568849397/ref=cm_cr_pr_orig_subj |
| 08:26.36 | alex_joni | Defcon: no offense ;) |
| 08:27.23 | yukonbob | http://www.amazon.ca/Programming-Language-Brian-W-Kernighan/dp/0131103628/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197620770&sr=8-1 |
| 08:29.16 | yukonbob | then ditch Windows, get a BSD box and Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment, and you're set ;) |
| 08:29.31 | yukonbob | http://www.amazon.ca/Advanced-Programming-UNIX-R-Environment/dp/0201433079/ref=pd_bowtega_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197620925&sr=1-1 |
| 08:30.42 | yukonbob | ugh -- must... tear ... self... away from ... books!! |
| 08:41.02 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch) | |
| 08:46.38 | Defcon | yeah tnx alex_joni & yukonbob |
| 08:46.49 | Defcon | that would be great to begin with :) |
| 08:48.28 | Defcon | <add key="AppVersion" value="1.0.1 beta" /> |
| 08:48.31 | Defcon | iep |
| 08:48.37 | Defcon | soz wrong window |
| 08:58.21 | Z80-Boy | 5/win 11 |
| 09:01.10 | Defcon | ..? |
| 09:05.49 | Z80-Boy | 5/win 11 means "I tried to switch the IRC windows but made a typo during that" |
| 09:07.50 | Defcon | ah |
| 09:07.51 | Defcon | ok |
| 09:07.54 | Defcon | good to know |
| 09:39.17 | alex_joni | Z80-Boy: irssi? |
| 09:40.53 | Defcon | Irssi - The client of the future |
| 10:06.05 | *** join/#brlcad PrezzKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 10:08.37 | brlcad | ow |
| 10:50.06 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: clean up the list of temp directories that we try to identify so they can all be treated/tested the same in a loop. the interface should be pretty solid now. |
| 11:04.25 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: document the bu_temp_file() parameters, don't truncate the filename if it won't fit. |
| 11:04.55 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare the two parameters to bu_temp_file() for storing the filename |
| 11:10.31 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart) | |
| 11:39.53 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: in order for the filename to be useful, we need to not automatically unlink it right after it's opened -- add it to the closure linked list and unlink the file later during application exit. |
| 11:46.09 | brlcad | heh, http://youtube.com/watch?v=ywqu_8RIDvU |
| 11:49.12 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I finally managed to get the audio/video in sync - do you want to see a preview of the video? |
| 11:49.19 | brlcad | sure |
| 11:49.20 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: it has a BRL-CAD logo in the end titles |
| 11:49.52 | brlcad | fire away |
| 11:50.11 | brlcad | is this the result of your 336 line'd function? |
| 11:52.20 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I'll upload it... 25MB - isn't it too much? |
| 11:53.07 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: that was some unrelated function |
| 11:53.55 | brlcad | not at all |
| 11:54.46 | brlcad | heh, you can upload almost as much as you like *especially* when it's brl-cad related ;) |
| 11:55.14 | brlcad | bandwidth is not a concern in the least, and as soon as the migration is completed, there will be more disk space to spare too |
| 11:55.15 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: what's interesting is the video is generated completely automatically - if you change a detail in some model and type "make", those 25MB of video will be automatically updated |
| 11:55.35 | Z80-Boy | That's probably a different approach than is used in the world of Windows GUI applications. |
| 11:55.46 | Z80-Boy | That's a big advantage. |
| 11:56.19 | brlcad | be interesting to see your script(s)/process that generates the video too |
| 11:56.33 | Z80-Boy | hmm I wrote some custom C utilities for that |
| 11:56.58 | brlcad | yeah, i recall, your yuv converter |
| 11:57.16 | Z80-Boy | I also wrote a wave simulator for the title video effect |
| 11:57.25 | Z80-Boy | and a small program to scroll the end titles |
| 12:00.00 | kwizart | hello all! i'm testing brlcad on Fedora but i have a problem starting mged |
| 12:00.03 | kwizart | invalid command name "gui" |
| 12:00.03 | kwizart | MGED aborted. |
| 12:00.17 | kwizart | any tips ? |
| 12:00.22 | kwizart | display is set |
| 12:00.25 | Z80-Boy | kwizart: typing just "mged"? |
| 12:00.29 | kwizart | yes |
| 12:00.37 | Z80-Boy | kwizart: just compiled BRL-CAD? |
| 12:00.41 | kwizart | yes |
| 12:00.48 | kwizart | well 7.10.4 |
| 12:00.51 | Z80-Boy | kwizart: that shouldn't happen |
| 12:01.20 | brlcad | kwizart: hm, that usually means that tcl/tk initialization is messed up |
| 12:01.46 | brlcad | 'gui' is the first command |
| 12:02.05 | kwizart | maybe i need to set tcl/tk variable there aren't setted |
| 12:02.13 | brlcad | kwizart: how'd you compile |
| 12:02.32 | brlcad | there are lots of things that can go wrong during the install/compile -- I suspect you compiled against a system tcl? |
| 12:02.53 | kwizart | yes and it is 0.8.4 |
| 12:02.56 | kwizart | sh %{_libdir}/itclConfig.sh |
| 12:03.02 | kwizart | before configure |
| 12:03.08 | brlcad | things are still tricky getting mixtures of system-installed and non-system compilations working |
| 12:03.14 | brlcad | 0.8.4? |
| 12:03.16 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: still uploading and we're going to lunch... |
| 12:03.34 | kwizart | tcl-8.4.13-19.fc7 |
| 12:03.36 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: no problem, just post the link when it's ready and I'll get to it :) |
| 12:04.19 | brlcad | 8.4 can work, but it should have required some source edits.. |
| 12:04.38 | brlcad | kwizart: are you using system incrtcl too? |
| 12:04.47 | brlcad | more to the point, can you post your configure summary? |
| 12:06.00 | kwizart | cannot find incrtcl on yum maybe i miss this one ? |
| 12:06.31 | brlcad | first what's your summary? |
| 12:06.37 | brlcad | it'll say what it found and didn't find |
| 12:06.49 | brlcad | should be near the end of your config.log |
| 12:06.58 | brlcad | if it's no longer in your console history |
| 12:07.53 | brlcad | section in config.log is the second line that contains "BRL-CAD Release" |
| 12:08.06 | kwizart | onfigure: WARNING: Unable to link against a system Tkstub library |
| 12:08.54 | kwizart | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:08.54 | kwizart | ib64/brlcad --disable-rpath --enable-shared --disable-static --enable-64bit-build --enable-opennurbs-build --disable-tcl-build --disable-tk-build --disable-itcl-build --disable-iwidgets-build --disable-blt-build --disable-tkimg-build --disable-jove-build --with-x11 --with-opengl --with-sdl --with-python=/usr/bin/python --with-x --with-libs=-L/usr/lib64/itcl3.3/ -L/usr/lib64/itk3.3/ |
| 12:09.33 | brlcad | hmm, you've been trying the fedora build for a while, yes? |
| 12:09.42 | brlcad | i.e. we've had the talk about clobbering system libraries? :) |
| 12:09.52 | kwizart | http://pastebin.ca/815796 |
| 12:10.26 | kwizart | yes Build Date: ven 09 nov 2007 16:48:55 |
| 12:11.01 | brlcad | oh, nifty -fstack-protector |
| 12:11.04 | kwizart | And there is still some minor problem I would solve prior to officially start review for Fedora official repositories |
| 12:12.18 | kwizart | do you mind it can break thing? it is part of the "mandatory" CLAGS for Fedora every package have to use... |
| 12:12.33 | brlcad | fwiw, java sdl and python are *not* required -- there are interfaces that use them, but they should intently not be listed for any packager |
| 12:12.39 | kwizart | but in some case, it could be adjusted if it really breaks things |
| 12:13.04 | brlcad | you mean stack-protector? |
| 12:13.09 | kwizart | yes ? |
| 12:13.11 | brlcad | that should be fine |
| 12:13.52 | brlcad | we should come up clean -- if we don't, it's probably something very very recent that slipped in |
| 12:14.12 | brlcad | we've run all sorts of bounds, stack, and memory protectors/detectors/cleanups in the past |
| 12:16.29 | brlcad | i'm surprised you have the tcl init problem -- you do have it configured to use system tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidgets |
| 12:17.17 | brlcad | for what it's worth, you might do well to use --disable-all given how many --disable-*-build's you have :) |
| 12:17.54 | brlcad | (see INSTALL for details on the --disable-* flags and their aliases) |
| 12:18.24 | kwizart | i only have --enable-opennurbs-build \ but maybe I need to have it built alone then links to it... |
| 12:18.46 | kwizart | (if ever another FOSS can use it) |
| 12:18.47 | brlcad | you can leave that disabled for now |
| 12:19.04 | kwizart | ok |
| 12:19.08 | brlcad | that's for code under active development, it's not ready/used by production code yet |
| 12:19.17 | brlcad | just starting to integrate |
| 12:24.46 | kwizart | is this a problem ? configure:41521: WARNING: Unable to link against a system Tkstub library ? |
| 12:25.20 | kwizart | ah, found that configure:41533: checking for incrTcl library functionality |
| 12:25.21 | kwizart | yes |
| 12:25.54 | brlcad | yeah, if the system one didn't work, configure should have complained |
| 12:26.14 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for generalized temp file management. fixes assumption that there's a /tmp and that we can write to C:\ on windows |
| 12:26.15 | brlcad | so they seem to work, just not finding the right tclcad_auto_path |
| 12:27.07 | brlcad | kwizart: I don't think the tkstub link warning is a problem -- it would have caused a build failure elsewhere if it was a problem -- and since the compile completed, that's not the problem |
| 12:27.12 | brlcad | run this: |
| 12:27.21 | brlcad | mged -c |
| 12:27.25 | brlcad | set auto_path |
| 12:27.35 | brlcad | what does that report after the set auto_path? |
| 12:28.02 | kwizart | /usr/lib /usr/share/tclscripts /usr/share/tclscripts/lib /usr/share/tclscripts/util /usr/share/tclscripts/mged /usr/share/tclscripts/geometree /usr/share/tclscripts/rtwizard /usr/share/tcl8.4 /usr/share /usr/lib64 |
| 12:28.29 | kwizart | /usr/share/tcl8.4 that one is wrong (checking) |
| 12:28.57 | kwizart | hum no it exist (but there is also a /usr/lib64/tcl8.4 |
| 12:34.08 | brlcad | it's okay if there are extra |
| 12:34.08 | brlcad | the one to check is /usr/share/tclscripts and /usr/share/tclscripts/mged |
| 12:34.08 | brlcad | is there a /usr/share/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl ? |
| 12:34.08 | brlcad | (that's where the "gui" command is) |
| 12:35.04 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mater.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. fixes assumption that there's a /tmp and that we can write to C:\ on windows and keeps track of the temp file better |
| 12:35.05 | brlcad | ouch |
| 12:35.07 | *** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-17-237.hr.hr.cox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 12:35.15 | *** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
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| 12:50.26 | *** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) | |
| 13:06.07 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. fixes directory assumptions and cleans up temp file creation some |
| 13:12.15 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (tedit.c utility1.c): more usage of bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. |
| 13:16.04 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg |
| 13:16.32 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I hope you can play Ogg Theora since the MPEG4 encoder misfits the sound to the picture |
| 13:21.01 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: it's a preview. There are still some anomalies but of a minor character. |
| 13:22.02 | Defcon | .ogg is music eejh |
| 13:22.30 | Z80-Boy | Defcon: also Theora, the video codec. |
| 13:23.19 | Defcon | ah |
| 13:23.23 | Defcon | that's stupid |
| 13:23.24 | Defcon | :) |
| 13:23.45 | Defcon | ppl should make unique file extensions |
| 13:24.59 | Z80-Boy | .ogg is unique. It's for the Ogg container format. |
| 13:25.56 | Defcon | yeah |
| 13:26.08 | Defcon | but it can contain both music & video |
| 13:26.15 | Defcon | or what? |
| 13:26.49 | Z80-Boy | It contains Theora video and Vorbis audio |
| 13:31.59 | Defcon | yes |
| 13:32.35 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer need TMP_MAX_S or mktemp with the latest bu_temp_file() implementation |
| 13:33.04 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: a_overlap isn't identical to a_multioverlap -- one too many struct partitions |
| 13:34.21 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/do_options.c: use bu_temp_file() for the batch file instead of assumping /tmp |
| 13:53.03 | CIA-42 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: typo |
| 14:15.58 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: that's pretty cool, nice work |
| 14:16.46 | brlcad | interesting, quicktime actually did just fine decoding the file, whereas mplayer seems to presume it's audio-only |
| 14:17.58 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: thanks |
| 14:18.09 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: my mplayer can play it |
| 14:39.33 | ``Erik | brlcad, are you in today? we're doing korean... |
| 14:47.26 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-068-043.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
| 14:49.49 | Defcon | "we're doing korean..." |
| 14:49.51 | Defcon | ? |
| 14:49.55 | Defcon | sounds dirty |
| 14:51.32 | Z80-Boy | How to cope with death? Behave in a way than on your death bed you can say to yourself "good that this man is already going to disappear from the face of the Earth" ;-) |
| 14:54.21 | ``Erik | you don't disappear, you just change roles.... "worm food" is a glorious duty! |
| 14:54.33 | Z80-Boy | you just turn into thousand worms |
| 14:54.44 | Z80-Boy | like my garbage grows little wings and starts to fly around the kitchen |
| 14:55.00 | Z80-Boy | thanks to the genetic code of drosophila melanogaster |
| 14:55.08 | Z80-Boy | fruit fly |
| 14:55.38 | Z80-Boy | do you think it's immoral to work for google when google does a censorship of search results in China? |
| 14:56.26 | alex_joni | Z80-Boy: only if you're chinese or a resident in china |
| 14:56.30 | ``Erik | no more than it is to use google... |
| 14:57.13 | ``Erik | hell, I think the us gov't is full of bunk and immorality, but I still work for 'em... I just try to do what I can to make things a little better where I can *shrug* :) |
| 14:58.27 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: don't you get minus points for social skills if you talk like this about them? |
| 14:59.15 | ``Erik | mebbe |
| 14:59.19 | ``Erik | but, uh, I don't give a fuck |
| 14:59.19 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:59.20 | Z80-Boy | Google has headquarters in Mountain View |
| 14:59.30 | Z80-Boy | How far is it from there to the closest surf spot? |
| 14:59.43 | ``Erik | um, very close? the uhhh |
| 14:59.50 | Z80-Boy | That might make them less imooral :D |
| 14:59.58 | ``Erik | there's a famous beach like 20km west |
| 15:00.05 | Z80-Boy | 20km that's great :) |
| 15:00.11 | ``Erik | mebbe a little more |
| 15:00.13 | Z80-Boy | Santa Cruz? The Surf City? |
| 15:00.33 | Z80-Boy | 20km then censorship turns is a beacon of democracy |
| 15:00.50 | Z80-Boy | especially if they have nice waves peeling slanted to the beach |
| 15:00.54 | Z80-Boy | and good sandbanks :) |
| 15:00.59 | ``Erik | santa crus is like 20km south |
| 15:01.14 | ``Erik | just down highway 17 |
| 15:01.46 | ``Erik | erm, more than 20km, sorry |
| 15:01.57 | ``Erik | 35 miles, 55km |
| 15:02.06 | Z80-Boy | but the beach is 20km west? |
| 15:02.21 | Z80-Boy | And Santa Cruz there are skaters too |
| 15:02.37 | ``Erik | wow, google maps gives some lame directions |
| 15:02.52 | ``Erik | it looks like 20km "as the crow flies", but 55 by road, up through san mateo |
| 15:03.19 | ``Erik | and if you moved there, you'd probably get an apt between work and the beach, so ... :D |
| 15:03.25 | Z80-Boy | Whatever that's still fine |
| 15:03.30 | Z80-Boy | apt ==? |
| 15:03.38 | Z80-Boy | apartment! |
| 15:03.38 | ``Erik | apartment |
| 15:03.47 | Z80-Boy | No I would live in a surf hut |
| 15:03.59 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:03.59 | Z80-Boy | with 100mbps fibre optics |
| 15:04.40 | alex_joni | 10GiGE |
| 15:04.40 | ``Erik | I assume you'd work more than you'd surf, so I'd assume you'd live closer to mountain view than santa cruz, ... it might be hard to find a surf hut in silicon valley suburbia :D |
| 15:05.06 | Z80-Boy | I could type while waiting for a wave |
| 15:05.44 | ``Erik | heh, you should work at the google center in ireland :D catch some cold waves up there between beers ;) |
| 15:05.55 | Z80-Boy | catch some cold, period? |
| 15:06.13 | Z80-Boy | Mountain View is close to the San Francisco |
| 15:06.20 | Z80-Boy | That has an apparent advantage for me :) |
| 15:06.21 | ``Erik | yes, it's on the bay |
| 15:06.28 | Z80-Boy | gay bay |
| 15:06.42 | ``Erik | the san fagcisco bay, yes |
| 15:06.43 | ``Erik | O:-) |
| 15:06.53 | Z80-Boy | lol |
| 15:09.59 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you think my video could be used as a demo video on the new brlcad web pages? |
| 15:22.32 | ``Erik | is it that one with just the plane fly-around? |
| 15:23.22 | ``Erik | there, uh, is something ummm, "tracker" or something, that allows bezier splines to be used as "paths" for animations, I THINK... O.o I noticed it in the clone code, d'no if it works, if it's what I think it is, or how to use it... :D |
| 15:25.33 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg no it's not plane fly-around |
| 15:26.36 | ``Erik | huh, I thought ogg was an audio format |
| 15:26.42 | ``Erik | the vorbis video was theora, I thought |
| 15:27.03 | Z80-Boy | the modern video players should be able to play it |
| 15:27.16 | ``Erik | or mebbe I'm backwards |
| 15:27.25 | Z80-Boy | I wanted to make it in MPEG4 but my encoder slips the audio and video against each other |
| 15:27.27 | ``Erik | mebbe ogg is the umbrella and vorbis is the audio component |
| 15:27.50 | Z80-Boy | ogg is the container vorbis audio and theora video |
| 15:28.08 | ``Erik | xiph needs a better "for retards" page, so folk like me can keep up :D |
| 15:28.48 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: you mean "better ergonomy"? :) |
| 15:29.19 | Z80-Boy | I don't think one is a retard just because he doesn't want to spend unnecessary time on researching what should be written on the title page |
| 15:29.46 | ``Erik | well |
| 15:29.58 | Z80-Boy | I think it's their fault not yours ;-) |
| 15:30.05 | ``Erik | I did research the audio side when I was interested in writing an icecast/shoutcast streamer client... |
| 15:30.06 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:30.17 | ``Erik | so I shoulda known that |
| 15:31.11 | Z80-Boy | Recent mplayer compiled having libtheora and libvorbis and libogg installed should play it |
| 15:31.17 | ``Erik | hrmmmmm, I have VLC, it plays it |
| 15:31.20 | Z80-Boy | I compiled a mplayer myself and it works with Theora fine |
| 15:31.21 | ``Erik | um |
| 15:31.23 | Z80-Boy | great! |
| 15:31.38 | ``Erik | have you thought about re-rendering those in perspective mode? |
| 15:31.46 | ``Erik | ortho looks weird animated |
| 15:31.47 | ``Erik | :) |
| 15:31.49 | Z80-Boy | should I? |
| 15:32.09 | Z80-Boy | It's just a matter of adding a parameter to the rt call isn't it? |
| 15:32.17 | ``Erik | yeah, like -p<fov> or something |
| 15:32.29 | Z80-Boy | what fov do you recommend? |
| 15:32.36 | Z80-Boy | Have you seen the brl-cad logo in the end titles? |
| 15:32.41 | ``Erik | also; you can set up the frame size to be non-square |
| 15:32.44 | ``Erik | no, I'm at 2:10 |
| 15:32.57 | Z80-Boy | 768x576? |
| 15:33.14 | ``Erik | you could do that size... :) |
| 15:33.31 | Z80-Boy | or 640x480 |
| 15:33.31 | ``Erik | typically, movies are 4:3 or 16:9, *shrug* :) |
| 15:33.58 | ``Erik | cool stuff |
| 15:34.13 | Z80-Boy | thanks |
| 15:34.39 | ``Erik | um, as far as fov, probably something in the 60-90 range |
| 15:34.40 | Z80-Boy | do you think it would be better to replace the black background with some impressive photos from Ronja? |
| 15:34.49 | Z80-Boy | Laser beams over roofs, welding sparks etc.? |
| 15:35.43 | Z80-Boy | A different background for each shot? |
| 15:38.54 | ``Erik | stupid intarweb |
| 15:39.06 | ``Erik | um, if the point is to show off the pieces, background images would just distract, no? |
| 15:39.23 | Z80-Boy | those internets! a satellite will fall upon us because of that and everything will be over! |
| 15:39.37 | Z80-Boy | maybe? |
| 15:40.02 | Z80-Boy | Or I thought about more neutral background images, like a picture of various cracks and spots of dirt on walls, curbs etc. |
| 15:40.15 | Z80-Boy | with a hand-scratched name of the component over it at the bottom or the top |
| 15:40.27 | Z80-Boy | this looks too introvertistick |
| 15:40.36 | Z80-Boy | too geeky |
| 15:40.47 | Z80-Boy | too organized |
| 15:40.50 | Z80-Boy | too intelligent |
| 15:41.00 | Z80-Boy | too boring, nerdy, ... ;-) |
| 15:41.03 | Z80-Boy | Don't you think? |
| 15:41.39 | ``Erik | *shrug* I d'no, I don't do visual art shtuff |
| 15:42.06 | Z80-Boy | I don't do either, but I want my video to look attractive :) |
| 15:42.45 | ``Erik | I have a friend that does freelance work on that kinda stuff, but I doubt you'd want to pay for help ;) *shrug* aint' my scene, though |
| 15:42.57 | Z80-Boy | No Ronja is for free |
| 15:43.53 | ``Erik | next time I talk to phil, I'll mention it *shrug* mebbe he'd to it for free to have something to put in his portfolio *shrug* |
| 15:45.24 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: I was thinking something along those lines (demo video on new site) |
| 15:45.58 | brlcad | ``Erik: tracker actually duplicates geometry along a spline path (like tank treads) |
| 15:46.15 | brlcad | there's a different anim_track tool for bezier animation paths |
| 15:46.27 | brlcad | prolly getting the two confused |
| 15:46.27 | ``Erik | oh, okie |
| 15:47.20 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: should I be extroverted and mix background using background RGB combo or do it properly and use the ray hit distance and write own C utility for that? :D |
| 15:47.31 | ``Erik | heh, how's the soup treatin' ya, dude? :> |
| 15:48.52 | brlcad | I've been eating pretty normal |
| 15:49.04 | brlcad | just slower and less |
| 15:49.18 | ``Erik | cool, which two did you get knocked out? both the tops? |
| 15:49.48 | Z80-Boy | Wohoo, Virgin Classic Rock playing Hendrix :) |
| 15:49.48 | brlcad | left side |
| 15:49.56 | brlcad | so I can still chew on right somewhat |
| 15:50.01 | ``Erik | think you could deal with korean? |
| 15:50.06 | brlcad | prolly not |
| 15:50.09 | ``Erik | aight |
| 15:50.26 | ``Erik | gonna do the other two in a week or two? |
| 15:50.31 | Z80-Boy | Is it true that Americans are more extroverted than the European? |
| 15:50.32 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: mix what with what? |
| 15:50.46 | brlcad | other two at end of Jan |
| 15:50.50 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: put a background on my rendered videos |
| 15:53.17 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-3 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 15:56.46 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218) | |
| 15:58.40 | ``Erik | prasad, talked to mm this morning, he's still working on getting the data for his thesis all together... hasn't even written the thing yet :) |
| 16:00.39 | ``Erik | kebert xela. |
| 16:02.22 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: mm, i'd just use the background pixel value (that's part of why that 0,0,-1 exists, for blending/background detection) |
| 16:02.36 | brlcad | er, 0,0,1 |
| 16:03.32 | Z80-Boy | but if I have dark blue in my model, it gets dithered either into 0,0,0 or 0,0,2? |
| 16:03.50 | brlcad | dithered? |
| 16:03.54 | brlcad | you have something dithering? |
| 16:04.03 | Z80-Boy | whatever |
| 16:04.14 | Z80-Boy | how does background color from model color distinguished? |
| 16:04.15 | brlcad | i'd do the merge before building the animation |
| 16:04.55 | Z80-Boy | that's what I mean |
| 16:04.59 | Z80-Boy | rt and then do a merge |
| 16:05.09 | Z80-Boy | but what if a pixel in the model happens to raytrace to 0,0,1? |
| 16:05.22 | Z80-Boy | then I will have a little hole in the model? |
| 16:05.59 | brlcad | yes, that is conceivable, regardless of the background pixel color |
| 16:06.13 | brlcad | just the nature of reserving a value for the mask, since there is no alpha channel |
| 16:06.48 | brlcad | though for any real model, you're exceptionally not likely to get 0,0,1 |
| 16:07.22 | brlcad | if you want to be sure and get a perfect mask, you could create a top-level combination that uses the flat shader |
| 16:07.33 | brlcad | that'll give you a perfect mask using whatever values you choose |
| 16:08.57 | ``Erik | brlcad, got a question from dave |
| 16:09.48 | ``Erik | is there a way in mged to see which combinations contain a specified region? |
| 16:10.24 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: but then I have to perform another render using this flat shader right? |
| 16:10.53 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I would rather turn on distance reporting and make a script that extracts and masks from the output - that requires only one render. |
| 16:23.55 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: yes, you could turn on the distance reporting, but on a per-pixel basis it should actually be faster to render twice than do all that I/O |
| 16:24.14 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: I doubt |
| 16:24.21 | brlcad | ``Erik: yes |
| 16:24.34 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: rendering takes substantial time |
| 16:25.25 | brlcad | the flat shader is the fastest shader, should be substantially faster |
| 16:26.12 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: but it also needs to order those binary logical operation trees |
| 16:26.19 | Z80-Boy | which probably cause the 210x slowdown |
| 16:26.30 | Z80-Boy | so instead of 210x I'll get 420x 8-I |
| 16:28.38 | brlcad | they don't "probably" cause it, the boolean operations are what cause it to go slower |
| 16:28.46 | brlcad | didn't you read the response to your bug report? :) |
| 16:29.30 | brlcad | either way, just a suggestion |
| 16:29.42 | brlcad | so go the scripting route, that should work just as well |
| 16:29.53 | Z80-Boy | maybe not I got rid of my e-mail |
| 16:30.03 | Z80-Boy | actually I redirected it so I should have read it |
| 16:30.13 | Z80-Boy | But I don't remember |
| 16:33.44 | brlcad | ``Erik: tell him to check out the quick ref card, geometry information section .. dbfind and dbfindtree |
| 16:38.25 | Z80-Boy | ``Erik: isn't your last name Allman? |
| 16:41.43 | prasad_ | all man indeed |
| 16:43.15 | prasad_ | i gave boids guns for my final project - brian would be proud :) |
| 16:51.21 | Maloeran | In wxwidgets, would anyone happen to quickly know what would be the proper widget to render 2d stuff directly in the native format? |
| 16:51.49 | Maloeran | wxImage and friends expect 24 bits RGB data, which may imply conversion |
| 17:10.35 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874ED8.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 18:48.28 | *** join/#brlcad Toba__ (n=eastein@RESURRECTION.RES.WPI.NET) | |
| 19:15.13 | ``Erik | heh, no, if I write anything as ugly as sendmail, shoot me :D |
| 19:15.29 | ``Erik | also; not gay, ktnx :D |
| 19:22.13 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-88-172.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:22.26 | ``Erik | doh, he wasn't evne here to see it |
| 19:52.15 | *** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-197-40.uchicago.edu) | |
| 19:59.00 | *** join/#brlcad JJLopez (n=c86cd772@bz.bzflag.bz) | |
| 20:00.36 | brlcad | hello JJLopez |
| 20:06.22 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.117.211) | |
| 20:18.39 | *** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@77.237.98.228) | |
| 20:35.44 | yukonbob | Z80-Boy: cool video :) |
| 20:37.42 | Z80-Boy | yukonbob: thanks |
| 20:48.41 | yukonbob | Z80-Boy: what did you use to generate the first fades? |
| 20:48.51 | yukonbob | (blurs) |
| 20:53.56 | dli | do I need 3D support from the video card? |
| 20:54.28 | dli | the driver doesn't have 3D acceleration yet |
| 20:55.31 | ``Erik | no |
| 20:56.07 | Z80-Boy | yukonbob: a custom written algorithm |
| 20:56.10 | ``Erik | and the "opengl" output display is no faster than the X output, due to the way it's used |
| 20:56.34 | Z80-Boy | yukonbob: http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/wave.c |
| 20:56.47 | dli | ``Erik, thanks |
| 21:15.50 | brlcad | ahh, libpng 1.2.24 |
| 21:17.23 | brlcad | woo hoo, we're now back to a fully warning-free build (aside from src/other) |
| 21:17.45 | brlcad | soon as I can verify a couple other platforms, we can bump the warning level up a notch |
| 21:17.52 | ``Erik | w00t |
| 21:17.59 | ``Erik | -W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic |
| 21:17.59 | ``Erik | :D |
| 21:18.10 | brlcad | Werror won't work |
| 21:18.13 | brlcad | cause of src/other |
| 21:18.22 | ``Erik | yeah, well, src/other is a bitch :D |
| 21:18.32 | ``Erik | and it'll work if you use the system installs of everything |
| 21:18.40 | ``Erik | debian testing just added tcl/tk 85 |
| 21:20.14 | ``Erik | javascript might be making me EVEN MORE retarded (I know, ya'll thought that was impossible, but here we are) |
| 21:20.47 | dli | tcl and tk-8.5-beta3 all in gentoo now, can I build brlcad against them now? |
| 21:22.45 | louipc | I used tcl8.5b2 withouth problem, though archer doesn't like that version |
| 21:23.08 | brlcad | i don't believe head is currently functional, particularly wrt incr -- haven't fixed the searching yet |
| 21:23.30 | brlcad | will take a few days to sort out |
| 22:08.51 | ``Erik | "occam's space laser" |
| 22:11.02 | alex_joni | http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=387489&cid=21679547 |
| 22:36.45 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 22:37.44 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/hotstuff.png <--- a 10hour build and i got this :) |
| 22:38.05 | IriX64 | sorry poolio, it's another helicopter :) |
| 22:40.54 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.104.190) | |
| 22:45.22 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 22:57.31 | *** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@77.237.110.214) | |
| 00:45.11 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 01:22.23 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 01:23.45 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/js9SlQ72.html <---- runtime, dunno what this is all about |
| 03:19.14 | *** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca) | |
| 03:19.49 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/MtYMIK52.html <---- works guys :) |
| 03:22.17 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/black.png <--- heres what that shot produced |
| 04:13.13 | Toba | helicopter! |
| 04:28.53 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) | |
| 04:41.11 | brlcad | woot, yukonbob |
| 04:56.59 | dtidrow | evening, brlcad |
| 05:09.27 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't need HAVE_MATHERR |
| 05:10.14 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/anal.c: remove the old acos() hack to quell implementation errors by overriding matherr() |
| 05:18.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (Makefile.am sqrt.gould.s sqrt.vax.s): |
| 05:18.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: remove the unused assembler sqrt() implementations for the gould and vax. |
| 05:18.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: relinquish to the bowels of revision history until there is (ever) a need to |
| 05:18.07 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: properly reintegrate into the build (where they probably belong in libbn) |
| 05:23.39 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libtool on mac chokes on the -bind_at_load, get rid of it |
| 05:38.25 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer need HAVE_TMPFILE_S, no longer using tmpfile_s() |
| 05:40.02 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer using tmpfile_s(), don't check for it |
| 05:43.09 | CIA-4 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: we don't use ftime() |
| 05:46.01 | yukonbob | evening, cadheads |
| 05:51.49 | dtidrow | okay, so what's the program for displaying .pix images? |
| 05:52.30 | yukonbob | pix-png, favourite .png viewer. |
| 05:52.55 | dtidrow | pix-png converts them to png's? |
| 05:53.07 | yukonbob | heh -- truth in advertising. |
| 05:53.55 | dtidrow | thought there was a viewer for pix in brl-cad somewhere... |
| 05:55.39 | dtidrow | you would think there would be one, since .pix isn't a standard format |
| 05:56.28 | yukonbob | well, there are converters |
| 05:57.58 | dtidrow | there's probably a way to run the fb app and load a pix into that, I just don't know enough about brl-cad yet to do that |
| 05:58.19 | yukonbob | oh sure -- pix-fb |
| 05:58.29 | dtidrow | though "pix-png moss.pix > moss.png" works |
| 05:59.04 | dtidrow | well, I tried that first (pix-fb) - do you need an existing fb running? |
| 05:59.18 | dtidrow | wild guesses here ;-) |
| 05:59.40 | dtidrow | I'll just convert them to png's... |
| 06:05.42 | brlcad | pix-fb |
| 06:06.37 | brlcad | if you're pre 7.10.4, it's pix-fb -F/dev/Xl file.pix |
| 06:06.48 | brlcad | 7.10.4 and later, it's just pix-fb file.pix |
| 06:07.06 | brlcad | I made lingering default |
| 06:07.18 | dtidrow | ah - still have 7.10.0 |
| 06:07.53 | brlcad | you can run your own framebuffer server via fbserv, but that's mostly if you want to do multiple processing steps and/or read/write pixels instead of just display them |
| 06:08.25 | dtidrow | /dev/Xl? |
| 06:08.47 | brlcad | yeah |
| 06:09.12 | brlcad | that means use the "X framebuffer device" with the "l" linger option |
| 06:09.22 | brlcad | (nothing to do with the /dev filesystem) |
| 06:09.56 | brlcad | fun "fbhelp" and it'll describe what framebuffer devices you have available |
| 06:10.12 | dtidrow | ah - that's more like it |
| 06:10.41 | yukonbob | brlcad: do you think that syntax (/dev/Xl) is worth visiting, for it's confusion w/ /dev/ filesystems on *nix boxes, or would it be too big a deal wrt backward compat.? |
| 06:10.55 | brlcad | pix files are "raw" so if it's not the default 512x512, you have to specify dimensions |
| 06:11.25 | brlcad | yukonbob: backwards compat is the primary reason it's not changed |
| 06:11.27 | dtidrow | I just wanted to look at the results of the benchmark runs |
| 06:12.18 | dtidrow | yukonbob: yep, that's what I was thinking - didn't see 'Xl' in /dev anywhere... |
| 06:12.40 | brlcad | yukonbob: otherwise it would have likely changed a long time ago, and it's been a really minor point -- after you learn once and then you pretty much know |
| 06:13.08 | dtidrow | it's there to confuse n00bs.... |
| 06:13.10 | dtidrow | ;-) |
| 06:13.17 | brlcad | yeah, it's one of about a dozen of the FAQ newbie questions and areas of confusion that would be good to get rid of for 8.0 |
| 06:13.20 | yukonbob | brlcad: /me notes that Tcl has a "Tcl 9 wishlist" where wishes that will break backward compatibility are entertained -- perhaps something like that for BRLCAD 8? |
| 06:13.41 | brlcad | already have that wishlist, it's in the todo |
| 06:13.53 | brlcad | at least for the "important" ones |
| 06:15.29 | dtidrow | brlcad: 'rt' is the main raytracer executable, right? |
| 06:15.38 | brlcad | yukonbob: also plan to get started on some of those backwards-breaking topics on a branch after the move to svn |
| 06:15.42 | brlcad | dtidrow: yep |
| 06:17.11 | brlcad | lingering framebuffer windows was another FAQ newbie item that has been requested for about two decades... but I figured out a way to implement it and retain backwards compatibility, so it made the minor update |
| 06:18.25 | yukonbob | brlcad: /me was re-introduced to the "chromium" project again today -- you aware of it? |
| 06:21.05 | dtidrow | brlcad: http://www.yafray.org/ - any knowledge of this? |
| 06:23.42 | brlcad | yukonbob: hm, not intimately, but I was reading about them about a week or two ago |
| 06:24.00 | brlcad | dtidrow: quite familiar with yafray |
| 06:24.19 | brlcad | he's usually at siggraph |
| 06:24.19 | dtidrow | opinion/comments? |
| 06:25.20 | brlcad | it's a pretty decent optical renderer, really decent global illumination modes |
| 06:25.58 | brlcad | performance is a bit teh suck and it doesn't deal with solid geometry, but it does the trick for visualization purposes pretty slickly |
| 06:26.33 | brlcad | blender shelved their (horrible) ray-tracer for yafray a couple years ago |
| 06:26.38 | yukonbob | "doesn't deal w/ solid geom." -- you mean shooting rays and getting xrays, or collision detection? |
| 06:27.28 | brlcad | full shotline, proper inside/outside detection all the way along the ray -- for non-optical purposes |
| 06:28.12 | yukonbob | but it's an option for visually rendering, esp if one wants more than 16 light sources, correct? |
| 06:28.36 | brlcad | it's a great option for visual rendering |
| 06:29.27 | brlcad | for the new solid modeler interface, I'm hoping to sort out the interface so that different ray-tracers can be used -- yafray and povray would be near top of my list of the first to hook in |
| 06:29.41 | yukonbob | nice |
| 06:30.10 | dtidrow | what year did brl-cad get open-sourced, anyway? |
| 06:30.14 | yukonbob | would that be a batch-oriented .tmp files and call-out to the respective tracers, or linking them in as libs? |
| 06:31.19 | brlcad | dtidrow: we're about a week away from the three years anniversary |
| 06:31.53 | dtidrow | '04? hmmm, thought it was earlier than that |
| 06:32.06 | dtidrow | memory gets fuzzy with age... :-\ |
| 06:32.33 | brlcad | yukonbo: probably batch oriented with some sort of compiled plugin-in frontend that would have knowledge how to prepare/convert data into their format |
| 06:33.30 | yukonbob | brlcad: that was my first instinctual idea... |
| 06:33.36 | brlcad | as a lib would be possible, but probably a LOT more work |
| 06:33.45 | yukonbob | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:33.59 | yukonbob | povray == weird license because it's soo old. |
| 06:34.10 | brlcad | yeah, povray's a problem that way |
| 06:34.27 | yukonbob | batching makes sense for a few reasons, though... |
| 06:34.40 | brlcad | that may be a non-starter for povray, but that would be something to look into down the road |
| 06:35.49 | yukonbob | a g-pov, g-yafray, etc., etc. could potentially do the trick, and then let a person setup their own cameras/perspectives, no? |
| 06:37.07 | brlcad | yep |
| 06:38.09 | yukonbob | mmm... maybe my lex/yacc studies will lead to assiting on this... |
| 06:38.17 | brlcad | you can fake pipe's with other cylinders and torii |
| 06:38.21 | yukonbob | *assisting |
| 06:38.34 | brlcad | cool |
| 06:38.46 | yukonbob | brlcad: re: cylinders + torii, I guess that's where the heavy lifting occurs ;) |
| 06:40.34 | brlcad | povray's actually one of the closest matches to us |
| 06:40.57 | brlcad | since they do have many of the same implicits and actually do a lot of the same implicit evaluation |
| 06:41.11 | brlcad | they have a few we don't have, we have a few they don't have |
| 06:43.05 | yukonbob | pipe is esp vexing though, considering bending + radiuses (radii?), and growing/shrinking internal/external radiuses along the length of the pipe... |
| 06:44.04 | brlcad | the internal is really just a CSG subtracted inner-pipe |
| 06:44.18 | brlcad | so if you implement one, you have the same logic for the inside |
| 06:45.33 | yukonbob | right, but the differences between the transitions are nice + smooth, and still perhaps occurring around a bend, which would be like wrapping a truncated cone inside a bent cylinder/torus in povray.... |
| 06:46.23 | brlcad | povray has a tgc too iirc |
| 06:46.29 | yukonbob | how tough would it be to take the extrude 3d and make a lathe-like function for brlcad, a la povray? |
| 06:46.59 | yukonbob | re: tgc, but around a bend? |
| 06:47.09 | brlcad | bends are torus |
| 06:47.45 | brlcad | that's internally how our pipe does it -- tgc and torii segments |
| 06:48.25 | yukonbob | ok -- so can the inside dia. of a pipe change while it's bending a curve? |
| 06:48.41 | yukonbob | or outside, for that matter... makes no difference. |
| 06:49.15 | brlcad | I believe it can, but I frankly don't recall |
| 06:49.37 | brlcad | basically a more generalized torus form |
| 06:52.34 | brlcad | i know what you mean, it'd be a matter of seeing 1) if we allow the torus to "pinch" or not and if we do, how it's implemented and then 2) what that most closely translates to in pov |
| 06:53.21 | brlcad | for the most part, that would be very much an "edge" case that you could just check and say "oops, can't handle this" .. pipes with bend radius changes on the bend are not the common case |
| 06:53.34 | yukonbob | ... the whole idea (of various converters) sounds _really_ cool -- a good way to visit all the elems of BRLCAD, and see how other people are doing things, maybe refactor, etc., etc. |
| 06:54.31 | brlcad | yeah, one of my "big-idea" projects that I've been working towards is making a "universal converter" library given we support more formats than almost anyone except the commercial engines |
| 06:54.48 | yukonbob | librosetta |
| 06:55.08 | yukonbob | ^--- probably used by everybody else that thinks they're great translators ;) |
| 06:55.11 | brlcad | hah |
| 06:55.21 | brlcad | i have a stickie on my desktop with various names for the library |
| 06:55.21 | yukonbob | lol |
| 06:55.30 | brlcad | librosetta is one of them :) |
| 06:56.01 | brlcad | libbgc libgconv libg2g |
| 06:56.09 | yukonbob | heh -- we'll have to think of some more interesting obscure reference -- maybe one degree of seperation -- libdeadsea |
| 06:56.47 | yukonbob | ^--- add to stickies |
| 06:57.31 | brlcad | the only confusion with rosetta is the Mac OS X binary conversion layer of the same name |
| 06:58.07 | yukonbob | libdeadc, libdedc... |
| 06:58.30 | yukonbob | libdedc -- a bacronym -- DEcode Do Conversion |
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| 07:08.17 | brlcad | TRCPY\|STRCSPN\|STRERROR\|STRPBRK\|STRRCHR\|STRSPN\|STRSTR\|STRTOK\)' |
| 07:12.03 | brlcad | (speeding up configure by eliminating tests we can (hopefully) now avoid) |
| 07:15.01 | brlcad | not one in use, sweet |
| 07:17.44 | brlcad | ahh, take that back .. culled too much |
| 07:30.26 | brlcad | nah, they're not expensive .. just c89 function calls that configure checks for which it doesn't need to for most of them |
| 07:30.34 | brlcad | the calls are just standard library calls |
| 07:37.52 | louipc | mornin |
| 07:54.42 | brlcad | howdy louipc |
| 08:02.47 | louipc | how are the plans for moving brl-cad to svn? |
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| 08:28.13 | yukonbob | nn #brlcad |
| 08:28.27 | louipc | bye |
| 08:32.55 | brlcad | louipc: erm, unchanged .. still going to happen |
| 08:34.22 | Axman6 | brlcad: isn't it supposed to be pretty easy? |
| 08:34.56 | louipc | hey have you guys ever used git? |
| 08:35.28 | Axman6 | git sounds... interesting |
| 08:35.40 | louipc | it's awesome |
| 08:36.04 | Axman6 | sounds like a nice idea, but not an idea that sits well in my brain |
| 08:36.14 | louipc | why's that? |
| 08:38.19 | louipc | git can kind of work with svn as well |
| 08:40.16 | Axman6 | i watched the google tech talk about it with linus. he's a nutjob |
| 08:40.37 | louipc | oh yeah haha |
| 08:43.26 | louipc | I like how you can go totally nuts with your local copy in git and commit, and merge branches, and it's OK nobody sees all that insanity from you if they don't want to |
| 08:45.30 | brlcad | Axman6: it's usually fairly easy, but certainly not turn-key .. especially for a repository as extensive as brl-cad's |
| 08:46.02 | brlcad | louipc: yes, and you've mentioned it .. like four times now? :P |
| 08:46.42 | louipc | i have? I must have mistaken this for another channel then doh |
| 08:47.36 | brlcad | git or not, distributed works well for some things and horrible for others |
| 08:48.03 | brlcad | it's far from a panacea |
| 08:48.12 | louipc | or I just have an odd memory |
| 08:48.32 | louipc | yeah true |
| 08:49.47 | brlcad | you could just as well argue that seeing that hiding that "insanity", as you put it, is very much a bad thing |
| 08:50.19 | brlcad | particularly if you're collaborating among few and keeping consensus on development directions |
| 08:51.03 | brlcad | you often *want* to see the steps taken to get to a given result, regardless of the method and num of intermediate steps |
| 08:51.05 | louipc | well what you should end up after the insanity is a clean straight-forward set of patches |
| 08:51.52 | brlcad | you end up with that end-result distributed or not -- the point is the desirability for seeing the steps that got you there too |
| 08:52.16 | brlcad | centralized encourages that transparency, distributed lets you hide it (or not) -- it's a tradeoff |
| 08:52.34 | louipc | yeah if there are only a few devs then they're probably going to want to see it anyways |
| 08:53.47 | brlcad | yep, very dependendent on the dev structure, number of devs, visibility and collaboration prefs, user-community expectations, etc |
| 08:55.06 | louipc | git doesn't work too well when the lead guy is too busy with other things and doesn't pull anything, when everyone else is hacking like crazy |
| 08:55.19 | brlcad | distributed really starts to pay off when the centralized structure becomes a bottleneck administratively (which usually happens after you have hundreds of devs) |
| 08:55.46 | Axman6 | like the kernel |
| 08:55.52 | brlcad | yeah, you can set up git in just as brain-dead development-hindering ways as a centralized repo :) |
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| 17:21.03 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: raise() works on windows and is c89, so bye bye |
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| 18:02.38 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: raise() works on windows and is c89, so bye bye |
| 18:04.06 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: strdup and strsep don't seem to be c89 |
| 20:14.39 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/libpkg/pkg.c): get rid of our single use of strerror_r, minimize checks |
| 20:30.13 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 20:30.15 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: remove a whole bunch of function checks that can be taken for granted since c89 |
| 20:30.17 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: provides for them. all of these functions are apparently not even used (any |
| 20:30.19 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: more) via HAVE_ decls regardless. removing the checks reduces configure time |
| 20:30.21 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: signficantly. function checks removed include atexit, fabs, floor, memchr, |
| 20:30.25 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: memmove, modf, pow, setlocale, sqrt, strcpy, strcspn, strpbrk, strrchr, strspn, |
| 20:30.27 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: strstr, strtol, strtoul, strtoull |
| 20:45.30 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: comment consistency |
| 21:10.20 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: list the POSIX.1 headers too for good measure |
| 21:18.46 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bharder * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Working with new processing to facilitate img handling, re-worked <link> and <xref>, minor formatting. |
| 21:30.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bharder * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Previous commit also re-worked the placement of authorship from <title> to <bookinfo> and the dedication from <prolog> to <dedication> -- not sure about the <author> change... will need to keep eye on this. |
| 21:32.32 | brlcad | woot |
| 21:37.16 | brlcad | if we get a hundred active devs, I'd be much more fond of it ;) |
| 21:38.21 | yukonbob | does Bob do his development on Windows, though? |
| 21:38.27 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:38.56 | yukonbob | so he'd have to use NFS, or FTP (or whatever) files to/from a POSIX box to use git. |
| 21:39.11 | brlcad | as do a couple devs in germany and netherlands |
| 21:39.44 | brlcad | daniel and wim |
| 21:54.28 | b0ef | how about bazaar? |
| 21:54.49 | yukonbob | isn't that deprecated, in favour of arch? |
| 21:54.58 | b0ef | heh, no |
| 21:55.03 | b0ef | bazaar-ng |
| 21:55.22 | b0ef | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ |
| 21:55.35 | louipc | ooer darn windows! |
| 21:59.17 | louipc | yeah I heard good things about mercurial too |
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| 21:59.24 | louipc | never used it though |
| 21:59.38 | illethal | Good evening everyone |
| 21:59.42 | brlcad | hello illethal |
| 22:00.04 | yukonbob | it's pretty simple... I use it instead of RCS for my local disk |
| 22:01.11 | yukonbob | hg init; hg add thisfile thatfile; [edit files]; hg commit |
| 22:01.44 | louipc | oh yeah I've heard syntax is similar to git |
| 22:02.15 | b0ef | that's how you do it in bzr, too |
| 22:02.15 | yukonbob | iirc, git uses lots of binaries to get it's job done... |
| 22:02.32 | b0ef | ya'll haven't watched the git video by linus? |
| 22:02.56 | yukonbob | where he calls the svn devs from google braindead? |
| 22:03.40 | b0ef | yeah;) |
| 22:03.40 | yukonbob | classy |
| 22:03.40 | b0ef | hehe |
| 22:03.40 | b0ef | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:16.41 | yukonbob | heh --- /me reads a mozilla developer blog where they were testing what vc to move to (from CVS) and importing the CVS tree->bzr took more than a *month* of running time... |
| 22:21.06 | louipc | ouch |
| 22:21.17 | louipc | they're moving to mercurial yeah? |
| 22:21.58 | yukonbob | are on it apparently, with plan to revisit the decision in 9-12 months (from March, I guess, when they moved). |
| 22:24.41 | brlcad | illethal: what brings you around? |
| 22:31.38 | illethal | Got interested in BRL Cad. |
| 22:31.39 | illethal | =) |
| 22:31.44 | illethal | I'm a 3D graphic artist though |
| 22:31.51 | illethal | BRL is a massive learning curve. |
| 22:32.12 | yukonbob | illethal: you have examples of your work online? |
| 22:33.12 | yukonbob | hrm... apparently FreeBSD is mercurial too... |
| 22:33.38 | illethal | Yeah. |
| 22:33.50 | illethal | http://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/oden.jpg |
| 22:34.39 | b0ef | illethal: that looks excellent;) |
| 22:36.51 | b0ef | I'm a spline modeler, but since I went free software fanatic, there just aren't any free spline tools, so waiting for brl-cad;) |
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| 22:37.26 | illethal | Thanks |
| 22:37.27 | illethal | ! |
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| 03:51.48 | fsdafsd | YAY |
| 03:52.14 | fsdafsd | i allmost bought qcad :/ |
| 03:52.52 | fsdafsd | is brlcad an autocad clone ? |
| 03:52.59 | fsdafsd | cause thats what I need |
| 03:53.38 | fsdafsd | awe cool its even cooler |
| 03:53.41 | fsdafsd | csg |
| 03:54.23 | fsdafsd | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:54.24 | fsdafsd | |
| 03:54.24 | fsdafsd | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:14.19 | ``Erik | karel |
| 04:14.36 | ``Erik | I has a philbert |
| 04:17.57 | ``Erik | he's interested in helping out |
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| 08:51.43 | louipc | fsdafsd: brl-cad is definitely not an autocad clone, and still has a way to go for proper drafting capabilities |
| 08:53.34 | louipc | ² |
| 08:55.13 | louipc | @w |
| 08:55.16 | louipc | oops |
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| 15:15.17 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer check for bzero, begin conversion to memset |
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| 15:32.27 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: bzero is POSIX.1, memset is c90 -- pick the latter for now and remove bzero from machine.h |
| 15:34.30 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h raytrace.h): ws |
| 15:35.10 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: begin bzero -> memset conversion |
| 15:43.34 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed) |
| 15:43.38 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: remove a slew of function checks that have no corresponding HAVE_* define use in |
| 15:43.40 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: the code reducing configure time by another significant amount. functions |
| 15:43.45 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: included are: dup2, endgrent, endpwent, finite, fttruncate, getcwd, |
| 15:43.47 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: gethostbyaddr, gethostbyname, getpagesize, getpass, gettimeofday, inet_ntoa, |
| 15:43.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: isascii, isfinite, localtime_r, mkdir, mkfifo, munmap, ml_langinfo, panic, |
| 15:43.51 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: prtcl, putenv, re_comp, realpath, rmdir, select, setlinebuf, socket, strcasecmp, |
| 16:00.26 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (95 files in 26 dirs): convert all bzero calls to memset |
| 16:02.47 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: fully remove the bzero/bcopy section |
| 16:06.00 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): few multiline bzero to memset stragglers |
| 16:09.48 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: comment on using memset and memcpy instead of bzero and bcopy |
| 16:38.10 | Axman6 | brlcad: you're a coding machine man. up there with Allan Odgaard ;) |
| 16:49.17 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/convert.c: not clear whether the two regions can overlap, so convert bcopy to memmove |
| 16:50.22 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (htond.c htonf.c): memcpy has been part of strings.h since c90, get rid of the HAVE_MEMORY_H condition and bcopy alternate |
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| 17:33.44 | brlcad | Axman6: I have no idea who he is, but my i'll tip my hat in an approving nod regardless ;) |
| 17:34.27 | Axman6 | the author of TextMate |
| 17:35.19 | brlcad | TextMate |
| 17:35.24 | brlcad | ~ww |
| 17:35.24 | ibot | Mmmm.. Modalities. |
| 17:35.44 | Axman6 | hmm? |
| 17:35.57 | brlcad | wonder how much he makes off that |
| 17:36.26 | Axman6 | well he has no other job. it's worth every cent too imo |
| 17:41.43 | Axman6 | i'm sensing you're not a textmate fan then ;) |
| 17:44.16 | brlcad | never used it |
| 17:44.38 | brlcad | not sure I've ever heard of it |
| 17:44.56 | Axman6 | fair enough. i couldn't tell you if you'd like it, but i like it a lot |
| 18:08.11 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-067-145.pools.arcor-ip.net) | |
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| 18:54.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (76 files in 22 dirs): convert usages of bcopy to memcpy throughout. although none of them should be buffers that overlap per machine.h history, all calls were individually checked regardless. new code should not use bzero/bcopy any more. |
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| 20:13.51 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: not using HAVE_GETOPT anywhere, no need to check for getopt |
| 20:14.34 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: erm, adrt does use HAVE_GETOPT_LONG, though, so check for getopt_long |
| 20:56.08 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: provide the trimconfig.sh script since it should be fairly generic to any configure.ac file |
| 21:10.47 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/trimconfig.sh: cleanup printing |
| 21:11.04 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: now I fixed the audio cut and the sync - http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg |
| 21:11.10 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you think it's already a demonstration grade? |
| 21:14.23 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: what is it? |
| 21:23.05 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: a video |
| 21:23.22 | Axman6 | just wondering what of |
| 21:26.26 | alex_joni | Z80-Boy: are those communication devices? |
| 21:27.07 | Z80-Boy | alex_joni: yes |
| 21:27.12 | alex_joni | Z80-Boy: nice |
| 21:27.14 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com |
| 21:27.27 | Z80-Boy | made of stove pipes and magnifying glasses |
| 21:27.37 | Z80-Boy | 10Mbps 1.4km full duplex 10^-9 BER |
| 21:27.53 | alex_joni | I think I stumbled upon that site a while ago |
| 21:27.57 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: memset missing comma |
| 21:28.33 | alex_joni | for some reason I remember something like "sonja" not "ronja".. |
| 21:28.59 | alex_joni | Z80-Boy: vid looks good |
| 21:29.04 | Z80-Boy | alex_joni: thanks |
| 21:52.15 | yukonbob | Z80-Boy: the only criticism I have about the video is the viewer perspective --- I think it'd feel more comfortable from "below" the devices slightly, esp. since optical equip weather shields somewhat block viewing from above... |
| 22:20.21 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/masonry.c: oops, subscripted value is neither array nor pointer |
| 22:24.17 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: |
| 22:24.23 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: remove checks for a slew of headers that seem to have no corresponding HAVE_*_H |
| 22:24.29 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: in use anywhere in our sources. these include arpa/inet.h, ieeefp.h, itcl.h, |
| 22:24.33 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: itk.h, langinfo.h, malloc.h, netdb.h, socket.h, strings.h, sys/resource.h, |
| 22:24.40 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: sys/statfs.h, sys/timeb.h, utime.h, values.h, waitflags.h, and wchar.h |
| 22:35.33 | *** join/#brlcad pH (n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl) | |
| 22:35.37 | *** part/#brlcad pH (n=1@net12.mlyniec.gda.pl) | |
| 01:43.14 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: BOOL_T isn't even used any more |
| 02:14.37 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: ws |
| 02:15.16 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer should be using nor needing the bzero/bcopy macros -- should be using memset and memcpy throughout now |
| 02:17.35 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (52 files in 8 dirs): removal of the FAST declaration throughout. now using register or letting the compiler sort things out. |
| 02:23.05 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: revert int back to BOOL, windows thing |
| 02:32.07 | brlcad | ahhh...crrrrraaaaap. |
| 02:33.10 | brlcad | should NOT be static .. in fact static becomes very bad on SMP machines, which explains all these random crashes I've been having |
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| 03:13.22 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net | |
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| 05:54.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (5 files in 5 dirs): revert the rest of the bad tclIndex files that were clobbered during the 2007/11/28 commit with log "LOCAL->static, per machine.h deprecation list" |
| 06:03.36 | *** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) | |
| 06:33.55 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Install.html: remove references to LOCAL and FAST |
| 07:07.12 | *** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60) | |
| 07:48.43 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 07:53.59 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (46 files in 5 dirs): my bad deprecation instruction, revert/remove the LOCAL -> static conversion. LOCAL is only static for non-SMP systems, but usually auto. |
| 07:54.53 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: poof, make LOCAL go away entirely. the deprecation instruction was wrong/bad -- LOCAL shouldn't go to static, it just goes away (so we get auto). |
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| 08:17.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_hf.c: remove silly rcsid printing |
| 08:30.30 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/reflect.c: add last partition param |
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| 13:25.25 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: time() is declared in time.h |
| 13:34.16 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/f2a.c: bu_exit() is declared in bu.h |
| 13:54.23 | brlcad | hello d_rossberg |
| 13:56.08 | d_rossberg | hello brlcad |
| 13:56.16 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: do not forget to copy a string's terminating 0 |
| 14:08.49 | brlcad | hm, suppose I should review all instances and make sure they're manually null-terminated |
| 14:09.04 | brlcad | at least for the strncat/strncpy calls |
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| 14:11.18 | brlcad | hm, which there are 89 and 742 respectively |
| 14:11.19 | d_rossberg | maybe you should write a bu_strncpy which ensures that the last byte of the buffer is always 0 |
| 14:11.38 | brlcad | yeah, that's what I was thinking |
| 14:11.54 | brlcad | or something like what you had earlier for strlcpy |
| 14:12.04 | brlcad | maybe a bu_strlcpy |
| 14:12.25 | d_rossberg | std::string ? |
| 14:12.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:12.51 | brlcad | that'd be a pretty major change |
| 14:14.11 | brlcad | don't presently require a c++ compiler just yet |
| 14:14.15 | d_rossberg | yes, and i don't think that all sources woulg go through as .cpp |
| 14:15.53 | brlcad | to date, all the libs (and almost all the sources) have been moving towards strict ansi/iso compliance, pure C lib path |
| 14:16.27 | brlcad | the opennurbs work was the first major "good reason" to adopt c++, so maybe as that work completes and it's integrated non-optional |
| 14:17.25 | brlcad | still, gut feeling is to keep them pure C and have C++ libs that build on top of them, new OO API akin to what you started, maybe even using that code as a starting point |
| 14:19.08 | brlcad | and even for opennurbs, to hide it as implementation detail instead of keeping the current exposure |
| 14:21.20 | d_rossberg | it's true, i'm using my own C++ wrapper to access brlcad library, but i've never published it |
| 14:42.14 | ``Erik | hum, a release of bzflag |
| 14:42.18 | ``Erik | 2.0.10 O.o |
| 14:48.24 | *** join/#brlcad jaminkle (i=JiE@60.53.124.14) | |
| 14:53.14 | ``Erik | *scrollscrollscroll* seems brlcad was busy this weekend |
| 14:55.53 | brlcad | ``Erik: that was about a month ago (bz release) |
| 14:56.01 | ``Erik | static is only bad if the function is supposed to be reentrant, and that can break on single proc machines if the ccontext switch happens in the func |
| 14:56.08 | ``Erik | oh, it just made happypenguin :) |
| 14:56.30 | brlcad | yeah, we didn't notify this time, so it's just been usual word-of-mount spread |
| 14:56.48 | ``Erik | how's the jaw? back to real food yet? |
| 14:56.49 | brlcad | many of the functions in librt are supposed to be re-entrant |
| 14:57.00 | brlcad | s/many/most/ |
| 14:57.07 | *** join/#brlcad motoko (n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
| 14:57.20 | ``Erik | yeah, but I believe there is no annotation to say which are or are not intended to be that way |
| 14:57.53 | ``Erik | d'no how critical that is, but I think that'd make it easier for a new coder to not break things |
| 14:58.03 | brlcad | I don't think *any* are intentionally not that way, just not used in parallel yet or known to not work or not worth the effort |
| 14:58.39 | ``Erik | heh, then static without semaphores or something is just plain bad juju :D |
| 14:58.52 | brlcad | some of the libbu routines exist because they were made reentrant when the same/similar C interface was not necessarily |
| 15:00.00 | brlcad | hello jaminkle |
| 15:01.49 | ``Erik | png 1.2.24 |
| 15:02.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: parker fixed asc2g bug on Windows that caused a crash on exit |
| 15:02.28 | brlcad | while you were koreaning |
| 15:02.35 | ``Erik | still no fix for mikes uhhh cubit ? |
| 15:02.44 | brlcad | fix? |
| 15:02.59 | brlcad | his crash-on-exit bug? |
| 15:02.59 | ``Erik | it doens't exit clean, so he forces an exit(), right? |
| 15:03.21 | ``Erik | I gave him shit about it last week, hoping it'd distract him enough to let bob work |
| 15:03.29 | ``Erik | :D |
| 15:03.45 | brlcad | heh, he forces an abort(), exit() would still call the destructors |
| 15:03.54 | ``Erik | *shudder* |
| 15:04.09 | ``Erik | is it bad dependancy chain stuff? or a broken destructor? or what? |
| 15:04.33 | brlcad | I think he's not deallocating objects he's allocated in the proper order |
| 15:04.48 | brlcad | or he's freeing something he shouldn't like a singleton |
| 15:05.09 | brlcad | highly suspect the latter based on a comment he made a couple weeks ago |
| 15:05.21 | brlcad | but still tbd |
| 15:05.22 | ``Erik | heh, unfortunately, the cubit code isn't open enough for me to bother with unless I'm told to :D |
| 15:05.49 | brlcad | CGM is pretty open, it's lgpl |
| 15:06.32 | brlcad | just mostly useless by itself, it depends on ACIS so you can't compile it stand-alone iirc without ACIS |
| 15:08.45 | ``Erik | ya in today? bob is talking about lee's hunan |
| 15:09.22 | brlcad | on my way |
| 15:10.22 | motokolearn | HA |
| 15:10.30 | ``Erik | heh |
| 15:10.40 | ``Erik | http://freshmeat.net/projects/freedup/?branch_id=70879&release_id=267779 |
| 15:11.31 | ``Erik | nothing like http://freshmeat.net/projects/epac/ |
| 15:11.32 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:11.59 | *** join/#brlcad motokolearn (n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
| 15:12.20 | brlcad | hey, I know that guy |
| 15:12.48 | jaminkle | ? |
| 15:12.52 | brlcad | I've run across that program about a half-dozen times |
| 15:13.05 | ``Erik | which now? what? O.o |
| 15:13.12 | brlcad | sorta like ping where the NIBM is rampant |
| 15:13.40 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: ping is from BRL isn't it? |
| 15:13.40 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 15:13.41 | brlcad | people writing the same app when others exist |
| 15:13.47 | ``Erik | yes, mike muuss wrote the original |
| 15:13.52 | Z80-Boy | hehe :) |
| 15:15.03 | ``Erik | when I interveiwed at fedex, that epac program was enough to impress their gurus quite a bit, "this guy really understands how filesystems work", so "is this guy technically competent" part was nonexistant |
| 15:15.15 | brlcad | Z80-Boy: any way you could re-encode your video+audio to an mpeg stream, or provide me the audio track separately (then I could more easily re-encode as an mpeg stream) |
| 15:15.46 | brlcad | I don't mind *also* putting up the OGG, but if there's not an mpeg version, 99% of the audience won't see it |
| 15:16.15 | ``Erik | *nod* having it "just work" on a vanilla windows computer is an unfortunate necessity :( |
| 15:16.49 | ``Erik | I watched 3 episodes of kung fu, serenity, and generally chummed with a buddy who drove down from pennsylvania over the weekend. :D |
| 15:17.16 | Maloeran | And over the last 2 weeks? :) Gez fine, let me know if you got something for me |
| 15:17.24 | Maloeran | I'll have plenty of time to code over the next month, I think |
| 15:17.32 | ``Erik | oh, ummm |
| 15:17.41 | *** join/#brlcad motokolearn (n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
| 15:17.43 | ``Erik | I've been gridning on learning, uh, javascript (again) |
| 15:17.59 | Defcon | haha |
| 15:18.11 | ``Erik | but I'm still backing it with php, um, downloaded a lithp webserver thing |
| 15:18.19 | Maloeran | Yuck. Ready for anything server-side in C yet? |
| 15:18.35 | ``Erik | hunchentute or something |
| 15:18.38 | Defcon | serverside C ?? |
| 15:18.41 | ``Erik | heheheh newp, lithp :D |
| 15:19.11 | ``Erik | lisp has the sexiness of being updated live |
| 15:19.26 | ``Erik | no "restart" command needed |
| 15:19.42 | Maloeran | Fine, I'll code the thing as shared libraries to be reloaded on the run |
| 15:20.09 | ``Erik | I did that with one program, there're still advantages to the lithp approach |
| 15:20.16 | Maloeran | Such as? |
| 15:20.25 | ``Erik | also; I like the sexy curves ( Y ) |
| 15:20.32 | ``Erik | introspection |
| 15:21.33 | Maloeran | Well then... I guess the question is, would you rather have me do it in highly optimized C or write the lithp code? |
| 15:21.57 | ``Erik | run sbcl in a screen, run the server aspect and slime server in it, attach emacs to it live (with significant hand twisting), be able to slap out quick one line functions and just groove in it, with the data set just sitting there live, mebbe self-optimizing... |
| 15:22.27 | *** join/#brlcad motoko (n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
| 15:22.31 | ``Erik | well, you're throwing out a dirty word there |
| 15:23.09 | ``Erik | "optimized"... I think for this application, cpu cycles are not the precious resource, notions like "time to market", bugfix responsiveness, etc are all vastly more important |
| 15:23.49 | ``Erik | but I'm still working on learning the presentation platform... web crap sure has changed in the last 10 years |
| 15:24.12 | ``Erik | there's all this javscript crap, this "css" thingie, ... |
| 15:24.28 | Maloeran | At the pace this is going, I think it will be mucg faster if I do it in C rather than wait for you to come up with the lithp :) |
| 15:24.29 | ``Erik | at least dhtml died |
| 15:24.34 | Maloeran | much* faster |
| 15:24.35 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 15:26.01 | Maloeran | Well then, feel free to keep me updated |
| 15:26.21 | ``Erik | I'm hoping to do something productive, um, on thursday, while flying |
| 15:27.11 | Maloeran | That sounds brief |
| 15:27.35 | ``Erik | yeah... that's the power of lithp, the code happens really fast |
| 15:28.08 | ``Erik | so the "figuring out what you want to do" looks radically large in comparison... |
| 15:29.14 | ``Erik | and the code tends to be short and dense, so the seperation notions (which is at least as big in C) seems disproportionately large (it's all parenthesis!... but still less parenthesis than equivelant C, weird) |
| 15:29.25 | Maloeran | So I suspect you won't need any good C code? |
| 15:29.31 | ``Erik | dunno |
| 15:30.22 | ``Erik | I imagine that lisp is extremely well suited, so I intend to use that at first, and when it proves itself to be insufficient, THEN I'll start shoving C in |
| 15:30.23 | ``Erik | :) |
| 15:32.01 | *** join/#brlcad motoko (n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
| 15:32.06 | ``Erik | I've also found that when I try to use python or ruby, it works dandy until things start getting tougher, and then they start seeming awfuly kludgy and hard to used compared to the scheme or lisp solutions... O.o |
| 15:32.56 | Maloeran | I have come to think the same thing of about any language as complexity rises, except C |
| 15:33.35 | ``Erik | C has its own issues *shrug* but it's a simple language so the issues are tractable... lisp is similarly simple, but it has a different purpose |
| 15:33.59 | ``Erik | I mean, C is fuckin' awesome for writing drivers or kernel stuff... not so much for user apps mangling data sets |
| 15:34.06 | Maloeran | So you intend to have to rewrite the thing once lisp proves itself insufficient? I really would start with C right away |
| 15:34.33 | ``Erik | see, a lot of the C code I write has me saying "I wish I could write this in scheme, it'd be so much easier" |
| 15:34.35 | Maloeran | Oh, I got the code for data sets, memory management or whatever already |
| 15:34.54 | ``Erik | yeah, I have a massive personal library, too... *shrug* |
| 15:35.32 | ``Erik | but when every function I'm writing has a single line of scheme describing it in the comment... :D |
| 15:35.50 | Maloeran | Oh well. Erik, I can start whenever you want if you want C code |
| 15:36.14 | ``Erik | hehehe, and here I thought you'd thrown some lisp out in your day :D |
| 15:36.44 | Maloeran | I have tried, I always came back to C when things were getting more complex |
| 15:37.11 | ``Erik | I had that phase with scheme, but as I learned more of the heavier hitting scheme, the balance shifted |
| 15:37.17 | Maloeran | Lisp just would not provide the proper and efficient solutions I would seek to get at the assembly level |
| 15:38.20 | ``Erik | the x86 is a horrible chip to start with, judging a language by the x86 machien code of an implementation might not always be appropriate |
| 15:38.57 | Maloeran | It might be horrible but it's what we got, and the architecture design is there to stay |
| 15:39.23 | Maloeran | I won't pick a language because it can be "theorically" better on some hypothetical ideal computers. I prefer to deal with reality |
| 15:39.37 | ``Erik | yeah, the g5 was lovely, but apple jumped ship because of cult of the gigahertz :( |
| 15:40.13 | ``Erik | notionally, the web delivery thing lets you control reality a bit more instead of just sucking it up and going with the rest of the sheep |
| 15:41.26 | Maloeran | Fine fine... In that case, let me know when lithp proves itself insufficient and you decide to start over in C :) |
| 15:42.20 | ``Erik | hehehe, I'm quite certain I'll find fault with javascript and ie far before lisp :D |
| 15:43.59 | *** join/#brlcad motoko (n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
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| 16:02.35 | jaminkle | ok this is going to work |
| 16:03.04 | jaminkle | oh noes |
| 16:03.09 | jaminkle | i killed him |
| 16:03.39 | *** join/#brlcad motokolearn (n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au) | |
| 16:06.05 | ``Erik | heh |
| 16:11.35 | jaminkle | motokolearn hello |
| 16:11.47 | motokolearn | jaminkle: Hello there, it is nice to be obsessed with that! |
| 16:11.55 | jaminkle | :/ |
| 16:22.41 | *** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218) | |
| 16:52.59 | minute | Can you send me a screenshot of the troubles in Safari 2, appers to be working alright in Safari 3 BETA. |
| 16:53.13 | minute | (I don't have a Mac, unfourtunatley :() |
| 17:15.22 | jaminkle | >.> |
| 18:24.45 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): Set flag to clear back buffer in drawBegin routine. |
| 18:32.05 | *** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130) | |
| 19:02.24 | *** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234) | |
| 19:29.38 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Move call to itk_initialize up a bit. This fixes the problem of the main canvas' background not getting set. Added a call to writePreferences in the destructor. |
| 20:01.10 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: s/shaderlen/shader_len/ |
| 20:02.42 | minute | jaminkle: <.< |
| 20:03.30 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 20:05.11 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: force enum values instead of "hoping". define the name size limit. |
| 20:11.07 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/main.c: change naming prefix |
| 20:12.13 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-64-193.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:59.58 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (Makefile.am load.c load.h slave.c slave.h): reorg to reduce prototypes |
| 21:07.01 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Move a few methods related to editing from ArcherCore to Archer. |
| 21:23.03 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c): |
| 21:23.10 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: update the pro/e plugin so that it also now implements the first half of sf |
| 21:23.17 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: request [ 1159469 ] "Pro/E converter improvements" whereby it now more |
| 21:23.23 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: appropriately parses the part number to part name mapping file and allows part |
| 21:23.27 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: names that have spaces in the name. instead of stopping at the first |
| 21:23.34 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: whitespace, it now reads until the end of the line and extracts the part name, |
| 21:23.39 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: allowing for an arbitrary amount of surrounding whitespace that it trims off. |
| 21:38.31 | *** join/#brlcad CIA-29 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] | |
| 21:47.58 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: improve the framebuffer support for HDR imagery, an alpha channel for transparency, and configurable timeouts on remove framebuffers. |
| 22:06.44 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.176.104) | |
| 23:05.58 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/usrfmt.h: ws consistency cleanup |
| 23:06.30 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.c: major ws and style consistency cleanup |
| 23:07.41 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (interact.c dist_def.c): use c99 fmax instead of max macro, might need configure support |
| 23:08.17 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (if.c command.c): use c99 fabs() instead of abs macro, might need configure support |
| 23:09.44 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.h: clean ws and style consistency, document origin, remove min/max/abs and DEBUG_FORMAT (raytrace.h provides it), add header wrapper protection |
| 23:15.28 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/interact.c: ws and style consistency cleanup |
| 23:19.45 | ``Erik | hehehe |
| 23:20.34 | louipc | I always thought lisp was a scripting language. |
| 23:20.57 | starseeker | It can be used that way, but I don't think it usually is |
| 23:21.23 | louipc | so you can make binaries from the code eh? |
| 23:21.43 | starseeker | Sort of. It's like java - you need the environment |
| 23:21.58 | louipc | oh |
| 23:22.57 | starseeker | It's a pretty awesome language for flexibility and power, but it's lib support is a bit behind |
| 23:25.29 | starseeker | (especially on the graphics side - McCLIM has the potential to be incredible but it needs a lot of work) |
| 23:27.51 | ``Erik | um, actually, some implementations and spew out standalone that doesn't need the environment |
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| 23:28.18 | starseeker | Some of the commercial ones maybe |
| 23:28.19 | louipc | vlisp isn't along the lines of vbasic or vc++ is it? hehheh |
| 23:28.21 | ``Erik | and I know there're a couple schemes that can spew out C to compile, or some even compile into jvm .class files |
| 23:28.31 | starseeker | louipc: It claims to be a verified scheme |
| 23:28.36 | starseeker | louipc: whatever that means |
| 23:29.05 | starseeker | http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/guttman95vlisp.html |
| 23:29.10 | ``Erik | <-- on the scheme side, not the cl... so knows the pretty toys for scheme :D bigloo, sisc, schemetoc, ... |
| 23:30.49 | ``Erik | it's a neat idea, but cosmic rays still blow bits clean off the silicon :( I think some of hte ultrasparcs and ibm biggies actually did a given computation several times in parallel and made sure the results are all the same |
| 23:31.07 | starseeker | Oh, sure - you have to verify the hardware |
| 23:31.24 | ``Erik | pretty similar, but there're some big gotchas... like functions live in a seperate symbol space than variables |
| 23:31.34 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (bsphere.c command.c dist_def.c): more ws and style consistency cleanup |
| 23:32.02 | ``Erik | in lisp... that's been screwing me up, you get weirdness like defvar defun, etc... and you can't just USE the variable, like scheme can do ((alpha) 'beta) |
| 23:32.17 | ``Erik | where alpha returns a function, and that snipped executes that function with beta as the arg |
| 23:32.19 | starseeker | Hmm. From the standpoint of a CAS with integrated proof software, a foundation like VLISP might be a Really Really Good Thing |
| 23:32.41 | ``Erik | other than that, just library stuff, mostly |
| 23:32.46 | ``Erik | and macros |
| 23:33.02 | ``Erik | scheme usually offers both hygenic and 'lispy' macros |
| 23:33.21 | starseeker | Cool. |
| 23:33.24 | ``Erik | though the hygenic ones are the only mandated ones in r5 |
| 23:35.25 | ``Erik | doubt it, a major philosophy is to keep the core language tiny and extend it with srfi's |
| 23:35.53 | starseeker | Might be some merit to that - Lisp's monumental spec still didn't specify enough |
| 23:37.10 | starseeker | It would be an interesting exercise to attempt porting the "major" lisp apps and libraries over to a scheme - I wonder what the practical differences would be |
| 23:38.10 | starseeker | Now if someone has done a verified Machine Forth... |
| 23:39.17 | starseeker | apparently not |
| 23:39.39 | starseeker | Hrm. |
| 23:40.28 | starseeker | Amazing really - every time I turn around I find another major piece of work on verification I didn't know existed. It must take the real pros years of full time reading to learn the field |
| 23:50.58 | ``Erik | I imagine there'd be a lot of hunting for the right scheme to do a port like that... all those toys built into cl... kinda like javas class library |
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| 00:12.07 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/command.c: uffer |
| 00:13.51 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.c: say it's natalie's |
| 00:14.51 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: clean up ws and style, clean up bu_exit and error reporting calls, clean up header |
| 00:15.07 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (conversion.c if.c parse_fmt.c read_mat.c str_manip.c): ws and style consistency cleanup |
| 00:16.05 | illethal | What do these commands mean? |
| 00:16.26 | brlcad | what commands? |
| 00:16.41 | illethal | birlcad/src/nird/nird.c: |
| 00:16.45 | illethal | nirt |
| 00:16.46 | illethal | Lmao |
| 00:16.52 | illethal | Looks like a directory. |
| 00:16.53 | brlcad | those are source code commits |
| 00:17.04 | brlcad | changes to brl-cad announced live as they happen |
| 00:17.24 | illethal | Oh that's awesome. |
| 00:17.40 | brlcad | so project "BRL-CAD", user "brlcad", edited file "brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c" and the comment that followed for that particular edit |
| 00:18.04 | illethal | I see now. |
| 00:18.40 | illethal | So, you're one of the founders of brl cad, or do you just operate this channel? |
| 00:20.30 | brlcad | i'm one of the devs |
| 00:20.41 | brlcad | brl-cad's been under active development for decades |
| 00:21.01 | illethal | Ooh. |
| 00:21.03 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: investigate rt_shootray() backing out the ray when inside an object and nirt's -b backout option. perhaps it used to not back out the ray automatically? should make sure the change wasn't unintentional. |
| 00:21.07 | illethal | Did you ever meet Mike Muuss? |
| 00:21.13 | brlcad | yep |
| 00:21.19 | brlcad | he's the reason I fell in love with BRL-CAD |
| 00:21.27 | illethal | He was awesome. |
| 00:21.34 | brlcad | and why I took up the torch of maintainership |
| 00:22.28 | illethal | Gotta love ping. |
| 00:23.19 | brlcad | http://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996 for some fun stats of the project |
| 00:24.04 | brlcad | anyway, love to chat but gotta run out for a bit to catch a movie, see ya around! |
| 00:24.43 | illethal | Okay. |
| 00:24.45 | illethal | See ya! |
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| 06:47.06 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/isst_python.c: eek, fix a few of the bad strncat/strncpy sizes that were put on arg 2 instead of 3. manually null-terminate for safety. |
| 07:07.53 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 8 dirs): null-terminate strncat'd buffers for sanity sake since we don't usually check if we filled/truncated |
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| 07:48.11 | Defcon | lol |
| 07:48.24 | Defcon | The Code Project Weekly Poll Results: |
| 07:48.33 | Defcon | "Who has the final say in decisions on a software project?" |
| 07:48.40 | Defcon | OptionVotes% |
| 07:48.40 | Defcon | The Customer70340.57 |
| 07:48.50 | Defcon | ...more options... |
| 07:48.59 | Defcon | The lucky-8 ball1428.19 |
| 07:49.02 | Defcon | haha |
| 07:49.36 | Defcon | 8.19% relies on the 8 ball :) |
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| 10:40.26 | *** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net | |
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| 13:36.23 | Defcon | damn CSS based printing |
| 13:36.28 | Defcon | cringe |
| 15:48.22 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: treeInit.sh no longer exists |
| 15:52.13 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/enigma.c: quell warning, need #define _XOPEN_SOURCE to get crypt from unistd.h on SGI linux |
| 16:08.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: |
| 16:08.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: annotate/migrate here the bug from sf bug tracker item [ 925408 ] "mk_lcomb() in |
| 16:08.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: libwdb fails on large combinations" .. the bug was too low-priority and |
| 16:08.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: developer-centric to have lingering in the sf tracker indefinitely, but worth |
| 16:08.10 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: keeping a note of here. |
| 17:03.35 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: have to include the always_compile files in the DIST_SUBDIRS else they feel left out |
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| 17:36.10 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: quell Tcl_PkgProvide warning |
| 17:36.12 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: remove carriage returns, add footer, add missing headers and a RESOURCE_INCLUDED define for using a system-installed itcl.h |
| 17:38.32 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: add tclcad.c to libtclcad. this makes libtclcad loadable by Tcl! |
| 18:22.55 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/ (9 files): merge in the newer stuff |
| 18:33.27 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst.h: remove unnecessary include |
| 18:33.59 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: ISST_OP_SHOT is now ADRT_WORK_SHOTLINE |
| 19:10.38 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_sort.c: add missing arg... |
| 19:39.18 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-95-32.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 19:39.52 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h chgview.c): Added the following two commands: ae2dir and viewdir. |
| 19:42.22 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: Added V3AE2DIR. |
| 19:43.52 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Declare vo_viewDir_cmd() and vo_ae2dir_cmd(). |
| 19:45.37 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: Added vo_ae2dir_cmd and vo_ae2dir_tcl. |
| 19:50.16 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.am: remove unnecessasry stuff |
| 20:01.13 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/Makefile.am: remove unnecessary stuff |
| 20:26.49 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: the rt -d1 generates doubles in the network order, doesn't he? |
| 20:54.26 | *** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16) | |
| 21:06.57 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (QuadDisplay.tcl View.tcl): Added ae2dir. |
| 21:10.14 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Added help string for ae2dir. |
| 21:34.19 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libtclcad needs blt linked |
| 21:34.52 | ``Erik | hum, a blt sounds nice :/ shoulda gone otu to lunch |
| 21:37.16 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile.am: don't build this. Ever. Yet... |
| 21:39.51 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/ (7 files): generify function names a bit (hopefully leading to unification of the various compute chunks) |
| 21:43.49 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: welcome to the "always build" club, libcommon and isst. |
| 21:56.09 | *** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net) | |
| 22:06.06 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie_define.h: change to use vmath macros |
| 22:07.09 | CIA-29 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/umath.h: remove redundant macros |
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| 05:53.37 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you | |
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| 13:36.03 | ``Erik | a/det |
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| 15:01.59 | Defcon | <3 iTextSharp from SourceForge |
| 15:22.49 | ``Erik | O.o |
| 15:40.30 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: This hack is required for compilation on windows, atleast until I figure out what's really going on. |
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| 16:25.09 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/Makefile.am: fix the distcheck, the upgrade incremented the version numbers of some of the .tm files, so change INSTALL_ARCHIVES to be *any* version |
| 16:29.37 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_sort.c: reserve was already decreased, need to add space remaining/expected |
| 16:31.38 | brlcad | woohoo, netbsd 4 is out |
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| 19:59.21 | brlcad | Making all in slave |
| 19:59.21 | brlcad | make[5]: Entering directory `/vld/other/morrison/brlcad/brlcad-7.11.0/=build/src/adrt/isst/slave' |
| 19:59.24 | brlcad | gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../../../src/adrt/isst/slave -I../../../../include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../../../../include -I../../../../../src/adrt -I../../../../../src/adrt/libtie -I../../../../../src/adrt/libtienet -I../../../../../src/adrt/libtexture -I../../../../../src/adrt/librender -I../../../../../src/adrt/libutil -I../../../../../src/adrt/isst -DHAVE_MYSQL=1 -I/usr/local/include/mysql -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing |
| 19:59.31 | brlcad | ../../../../../src/adrt/isst/slave/load.c:38:20: mysql.h: No such file or directory |
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| 20:12.28 | ``Erik | heh, woops |
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| 20:14.30 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/Makefile.am: force mysql off by default to allow the build to pass |
| 20:24.11 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/Makefile.am: turn mysql off harder... |
| 20:27.39 | archivist | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.03 | brlcad | i think it's clean again now |
| 20:29.15 | ``Erik | in which rise breaks horribly? :D |
| 20:30.20 | brlcad | a bunch of files were missing, couple typos, some failures |
| 20:30.35 | ``Erik | yes, violent flux |
| 20:30.42 | brlcad | happens |
| 20:30.48 | ``Erik | mebbe I shoulda kicked a branch |
| 20:31.09 | brlcad | nah, most of the stuff was outside adrt -- adrt can at least be disabled easily |
| 20:31.19 | brlcad | it's active dev and an easy fix |
| 20:31.39 | brlcad | you found one of the typos yesterday, conflicted my commit |
| 20:31.43 | brlcad | the strncat |
| 20:32.10 | ``Erik | in anim, yeah |
| 20:33.43 | ``Erik | will it run on a desk lamp? |
| 20:36.42 | ``Erik | hum, flight gear 1.0.0 O.o haven't played that in a bit |
| 20:36.53 | brlcad | on 54 different system architectures |
| 20:37.00 | brlcad | 17 distinct cpus |
| 20:37.07 | brlcad | http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-announce/2007/12/19/0000.html |
| 20:41.55 | brlcad | hehe, in the /. perl comments.. "Away - away foul Lisp advocate, and darken not my doors again!" |
| 20:46.51 | archivist | packages removed! UUCP aww |
| 21:42.21 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: |
| 21:42.21 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: fixed empty name crash when using mged 'lt' command. this should fix a bug |
| 21:42.21 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: encountered in some crash logs that Craig Barker had and some mged crashes that |
| 21:42.21 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: he reported with 7.10.4. the problem was an empty name being passed to lt which |
| 21:42.21 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: ended up getting passed to bu_log as a null ... argument, which subequently |
| 21:42.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: caused the fwrite to fail and bu_bomb to kick off. |
| 21:43.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: |
| 21:43.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: fixed empty name crash when using mged 'lt' command. this should fix a bug |
| 21:43.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: encountered in some crash logs that Craig Barker had and some mged crashes that |
| 21:43.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: he reported with 7.10.4. the problem was an empty name being passed to lt which |
| 21:43.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: ended up getting passed to db_lookup and later bu_log as a null ... argument, |
| 21:43.25 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: which subequently caused the fwrite to fail and bu_bomb to kick off. |
| 21:45.31 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: ws |
| 22:13.59 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: return gracefully instead of bombing if there is nothing to print into, or nothing to print in bu_vls_vprintf |
| 22:27.46 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: gah, I'm making a habit of this lately or apparently too much shell scripting, haven't made these typos in years |
| 22:30.04 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: try stdout just in case something is wrong with stderr when logging before fatally aborting the app. there's probably something wrong either way, but until we can set/redirect bu_log -- try harder to not fail. |
| 22:33.19 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): manuallly null-terminate buffers after a strncat for sanity |
| 22:42.40 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: ws and style cleanup on rem_open, init vars |
| 22:46.53 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: note that ::key=val;key2=val2; might work well for setting a timeout on remote framebuffers (e.g. -F::host=brlcad.org;port=3;timeout=40;) |
| 22:59.58 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: avoid passing a null FILE to setvbuf |
| 23:03.01 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: do the same protections to bu_putchar that bu_log had to try stdout if stderr fails or is unavailable. instead of blindly trying stdout/stderr, make sure they're not NULL FILE pointers first and fail accordingly. |
| 23:31.22 | brlcad | starseeker: if bicatali (or you) have patches for the Makefile.am's that make it work properly, there's no problem making the mods -- the things he mentioned about it dropping stuff in /usr/brlcad/doc and "all around the system" (for html, ex) sounds like bugs or at least is unintentional and could probably be fixed. |
| 23:32.49 | starseeker | brlcad: Cool, thanks! |
| 23:32.58 | brlcad | I'd expect bin, lib, include, and man to be well-behaved -- the trick and problems are probably on the datadir for everything he mentioned, maybe/likely something we need to change |
| 23:33.26 | brlcad | if you know what those changes need to be, just make them or lemme know and I'll make them |
| 23:33.42 | starseeker | I'm not sure yet - I haven't had a chance to try his solution yet |
| 23:33.53 | starseeker | Hopefully he can provide more detail |
| 23:34.14 | brlcad | i mean, there's still the big problem he mentioned about things like librt that aren't easily resolved in the lib dir, but the rest should work |
| 23:34.22 | starseeker | Right |
| 23:34.33 | starseeker | The makefile.am patch should be on the site, actually... |
| 23:36.45 | starseeker | Yeah, this is it: http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=131177 |
| 23:37.14 | brlcad | more a matter of hm, those are fixes to tcl's build system |
| 23:37.35 | starseeker | Right. Dunno if they're worth adding to our local tree? |
| 23:40.22 | starseeker | IIRC it was a file conflict between the man page install from the system tcl/tk and the BRL-CAD copy, but I'd have to check |
| 23:41.49 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tk/unix/Makefile.in tcl/unix/Makefile.in): apply the gentoo ebuild tcl/tk build system patch that conditionally installs the manpages (someone should try to push this upstream) |
| 23:45.06 | starseeker | Hey brlcad, are the BLT libraries external to the BRL-CAD project? |
| 23:45.35 | starseeker | I.e this BLT? http://blt.sourceforge.net/ |
| 23:47.59 | brlcad | yes |
| 23:48.08 | brlcad | archer uses blt |
| 23:48.19 | brlcad | and it's frankly a pita :) |
| 23:48.29 | brlcad | but it works very well for archer's purposes |
| 23:50.11 | starseeker | Ah. |
| 23:50.30 | starseeker | OK, that's in the gentoo tree - he may be right about the overlay having enough support |
| 23:50.43 | brlcad | opennurbs is in there? |
| 23:51.12 | starseeker | Let me check... |
| 23:51.18 | starseeker | (is that no longer disabled?) |
| 23:52.30 | starseeker | Hmm. Nope, no opennurbs |
| 23:54.42 | brlcad | it's not supposed to be disabled, but it can (somewhat easily) be disabled |
| 23:54.46 | starseeker | Ah |
| 23:54.48 | brlcad | in the real near future, though, it won't |
| 23:55.03 | starseeker | Hang on, I might be able to whip up an ebuild... |
| 23:55.16 | brlcad | probably by 7.14.0 it'll be always on |
| 23:55.43 | starseeker | Erm... what's the opennurb license? They require a product unlock code? |
| 23:56.13 | brlcad | no, they're a clauseless unlimited license |
| 23:57.01 | starseeker | Huh. Weird. I wonder why they're emailing an unlock code - collecting emails of interested users? |
| 23:57.37 | starseeker | ew - a zip file |
| 00:00.15 | starseeker | OK, that was really weird, but it worked. Does BRL-CAD need the zlib copy included with it? |
| 00:00.46 | ``Erik | src/other/libz ? |
| 00:01.18 | starseeker | opennurbs/zlib |
| 00:01.59 | brlcad | no, but to remove it requires a few mods |
| 00:02.02 | starseeker | sorry - the opennurbs tarball has a copy of zlib |
| 00:02.05 | starseeker | ah :-) |
| 00:02.25 | brlcad | we've modified them in our src tree, but we're also one release behind them now |
| 00:02.45 | starseeker | ah |
| 00:02.50 | brlcad | i had to make a slew of cross-platform compilation fixes too, but maybe they've fixed those |
| 00:03.27 | brlcad | fortunately, all of our big mods have been left out of their source tree |
| 00:03.51 | brlcad | "we" (jason) implemented a lot of the functions that they took out of opennurbs |
| 00:04.05 | brlcad | as they intentionally don't want it used the way we're using it |
| 00:04.22 | starseeker | That's annoying |
| 00:04.29 | brlcad | (i.e. as part of a nurbs evaluation kernel) |
| 00:04.52 | brlcad | as they see it as directly competing with one of their commercial products they sell |
| 00:04.58 | starseeker | So BRL-CAD can use (in theory) an external copy? |
| 00:05.02 | starseeker | indeed |
| 00:05.03 | brlcad | in theory |
| 00:05.19 | brlcad | like I said, haven't tried the latest |
| 00:05.34 | brlcad | you might want to try upgrading our copy first, just in case there were api changes |
| 00:05.41 | brlcad | might/should be easier |
| 00:05.57 | brlcad | then work on making the patch that the ebuild will need from their zip |
| 00:06.13 | brlcad | how is the ebuild supposed to get the zip? |
| 00:06.21 | starseeker | got me |
| 00:06.28 | starseeker | may require fetch restrictions |
| 00:06.31 | brlcad | iirc, they have this click-through contact form |
| 00:06.49 | brlcad | you don't have to fill in anything, but you can't get to the download link without going through it iirc |
| 00:07.06 | starseeker | well, if it's free Gentoo can make a tarball :-) |
| 00:07.12 | brlcad | and host it? |
| 00:07.24 | starseeker | maybe. or we could |
| 00:08.08 | brlcad | I wouldn't without an okay from mcneel, and that's not likely given how we use it |
| 00:08.23 | brlcad | even if license-wise there's no reason we couldn't |
| 00:08.56 | starseeker | Hmm |
| 00:09.07 | starseeker | ok |
| 00:09.26 | brlcad | but you're welcome to ask :) |
| 00:09.31 | starseeker | hehe |
| 00:09.54 | brlcad | yay, one of my stitches just came out |
| 00:10.07 | brlcad | that's been irritating for days |
| 00:10.09 | starseeker | I'll let the Gentoo devs ask :-P |
| 00:10.18 | brlcad | heh, that works |
| 00:10.44 | ``Erik | soluble stitches? |
| 00:11.55 | brlcad | yeah |
| 00:17.41 | ``Erik | cool beans |
| 01:15.28 | starseeker | brlcad: So are the opennurbs guys actively annoyed with us, or they just didn't provide the functions jason recreated in order to avoid making it TOO easy for the competition? |
| 01:33.31 | brlcad | starseeker: i'm not sure I'd characterize it as annoyed or not, I don't know -- but I do know that they openly state that using the library as part of any geometric modeling kernel is and was not the reason that the sources are provided and that they specifically will *not* help anyone using it in that regard |
| 01:35.09 | brlcad | if you read through their news/mailing list for the past couple years (archived on their site iirc), you'll see at least a half dozen questions that come up with people trying to use it as such where they reiterate that it's not supposed to be used for that and they don't provide any help |
| 04:19.40 | Axman6 | sound like a bunch of wankers. how does doing that help anyone? |
| 04:41.16 | *** join/#brlcad jgay (n=jgay@fsf/staff/jgay) | |
| 05:08.31 | Axman6 | ....................... |
| 05:08.34 | Axman6 | oh god |
| 05:08.39 | starseeker | Thank goodness the stix font beta had already come and gone or I would have started suspecting an early April 1st |
| 05:09.59 | starseeker | Axman6: Exactly :-) |
| 05:11.19 | starseeker | As much as I have to grit my teeth to say it - Good for Microsoft; well done |
| 05:13.06 | Axman6 | only what, two years too late? |
| 05:13.28 | starseeker | ``Erik: Do you by any chance have autoconf build logic for opennurbs that could be used for a stand alone install? They don't seem to have even a make install command... |
| 05:13.35 | starseeker | Heh - better late than never |
| 05:13.56 | starseeker | From what I recall, ACID2 stumped everyone for a while - I think Konqueror was the first to get it right? |
| 05:14.09 | Axman6 | Safari was the first |
| 05:14.21 | starseeker | Ah, right |
| 05:14.23 | Axman6 | which then meant konquorer came next, then opera |
| 05:15.31 | Axman6 | and now the KDE guys have basically dropped the main khtml stuff, and they're going to use Apple's WebKit for konqueror... because bugs get fixed faster :P |
| 05:17.37 | starseeker | Hey, as long as it works :-) |
| 05:17.58 | starseeker | I guess you could call WebKit khtml2.0, based on where it came from... |
| 05:18.54 | Axman6 | well khtml basically died about a year ago. there's been no work on it for ages |
| 05:19.41 | Axman6 | Apple have done a fantastic job with webkit, fast, makes things look good, very standards complient |
| 05:20.00 | starseeker | Hard to argue with that, and if the licensing is OK why not use it? |
| 05:21.01 | Axman6 | yeah, not sure what it's licence is actually, good chance it's GPL though |
| 05:21.22 | starseeker | Apple does good work, as a rule |
| 05:21.38 | starseeker | The problem is (for me at least) they charge accordingly :-) |
| 05:21.55 | Axman6 | well i could seriously imagine steve standing behind guys witha whip... |
| 05:22.07 | Axman6 | macs are cheap these days man, and so's OS X |
| 05:22.29 | starseeker | They aren't bad, but Linux is free and almost all of it is open :-) |
| 05:23.10 | starseeker | One thing about Mac OSX's graphics systems - they are very definitely NOT open |
| 05:23.41 | Axman6 | linux is a play thing for me, there's just not enough polish with it, things are still too hard to use, and it lacks the consistancy i get with OS X. i know linux definitely has it's place, but i don't think that's the desktop yet |
| 05:23.41 | starseeker | Plus, as time goes by I'm coming more and more to appreciate the X method of communication - it is relatively language independent |
| 05:24.10 | Axman6 | heh, X is one of the main reasons i don't like linux |
| 05:25.06 | starseeker | X is actually quite an excellent piece of work, but it didn't get the fancy stuff until recently thanks to the XFree86 organizational setup (as I understand it) |
| 05:25.14 | Axman6 | yeah, that argument usually doesn't go down very well on irc... but you're talking to people who irc, so they're not going to be your average joe ;) |
| 05:25.23 | starseeker | I remember noticing a lot of abrupt improvements in Cygwin's X support after Xorg took off... |
| 05:26.54 | Axman6 | i just think the structure of X is stupid. i don't understand using a client server model when you're using a single machine. X forwarding is nice ish, but there are other ways, and that should really be a side thing these days |
| 05:26.59 | Axman6 | if that makes any sense |
| 05:27.59 | starseeker | Well, the advantage of client-server is that you don't have to care what programming languages are being used in client or server. Programming a GUI on Mac OSX in anything other than Objective C requires some FFI work at some layer, as I understand it |
| 05:28.48 | Axman6 | well you can use many different things like QT and gtk if you want |
| 05:28.56 | starseeker | The X architecture is one of the reasons Lisp can talk to it well - it doesn't require an FFI bridge |
| 05:29.26 | starseeker | Oh, sure - you can use a lib to paper over the differences if someone has written one (and QT is a good one by all the accounts I have heard) |
| 05:29.43 | starseeker | But the client/server flexibility still makes many things easier in the end |
| 05:30.12 | starseeker | Sorta like the trend towards web clients for apps, although I'm not terribly impressed with that personally... |
| 05:30.48 | Axman6 | still, if you've ever used a mac for a while, you start to feel that the gui is really 'solid' its hard to explain, but with X and the windows managers you use, you can feel that windows are made of little bitmaps and such |
| 05:31.10 | starseeker | Sure. I'm not claiming OSX isn't more polished - it is |
| 05:31.26 | starseeker | But to me that's less critical than the core technologies behind it :-) |
| 05:32.12 | starseeker | Apples technologies are probably pretty good overall (unless you're trying to make an McCLIM backend to the OSX graphics layer...) but they're also completely closed up |
| 05:32.58 | starseeker | Heh - I've gotta hit the hay here before my head demolishes my keyboard... I like this keyboard |
| 05:33.33 | Axman6 | i also like how easy the tools for OS X are to use for the gui. you drag and drop some stuff, put it where it tells you, and you end up with a HIG complient interface, that's fully OpenGL backed, and looks great |
| 05:33.45 | Axman6 | haha, ok man, take care |
| 05:34.11 | starseeker | If you don't like X, you might take a look at http://picogui.org/ or http://fresco.org/ |
| 05:36.08 | Axman6 | interesting |
| 06:41.41 | brlcad | Axman6: I don't see them as wankers, it was pretty cool/useful that they released openNURBS at all, and they're not actively prohibiting anyone -- they're just not going to help make a direct competitor to a product they sell |
| 06:42.35 | brlcad | the reason they released it was to give people free 3DM read/write file support for the Rhino file format -- we could really trivially write a Rhino-to-BRL-CAD importer/exporter now |
| 06:45.21 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 06:49.40 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-92-195.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 08:21.11 | *** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) | |
| 08:21.11 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you | |
| 08:37.10 | *** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6) | |
| 08:48.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: |
| 08:48.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: provide DEG2RAD and RAD2DEG constants for pi/180 and 180/pi; rename the new |
| 08:48.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: V3AE2DIR to V3DIR_FROM_AZEL to be more consistent with other vmath macros, |
| 08:48.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: similarly making first arg the dir instead of last; implement the complementary |
| 08:48.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: AZEL_FROM_V3DIR for setting an az/el from a direction vector as well (untested) |
| 08:49.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: update from V3AE2DIR to newly renamed V3DIR_FROM_AZEL macro name |
| 08:55.04 | Z80-Boy | Did anyone from here already get contacted by Google recruitment? |
| 08:55.26 | brlcad | huh? |
| 08:55.30 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/const.c: use the vmath.h/math.h macros where available (math.h are generally higher precision), convert all constants to fastf_t values. |
| 08:56.14 | Z80-Boy | They said they have Vont Cerf and Ken Thomson |
| 08:56.17 | Z80-Boy | Vint |
| 08:57.20 | brlcad | they hire all sorts of people ... like many many many companies |
| 08:59.55 | Z80-Boy | Is it true they are famous for secretivity? |
| 09:00.21 | Axman6 | sounds more like apple. google are pretty open |
| 09:07.11 | *** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874E5F.dip.t-dialin.net) | |
| 09:39.07 | Z80-Boy | brlcad: do you someone who could donate his superfluous supercomputing capacity for ocassional rendering of a project like Ronja? |
| 09:39.32 | Z80-Boy | Like I would like to make the video anti-aliased but that would render a month... |
| 09:39.43 | Z80-Boy | on my laptop |
| 09:50.14 | Axman6 | Z80-Boy: what're you rendering and how? |
| 09:50.29 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: Ronja models, using BRL-CAD rt |
| 09:51.09 | Axman6 | right, never heard of ronja |
| 09:51.24 | Z80-Boy | http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ |
| 09:52.48 | Axman6 | hmm, i'm confused now |
| 09:53.06 | Axman6 | are mounting brackets really that interesting? :P |
| 09:54.43 | Z80-Boy | There are no mounting brackets on the page I posted. Mounting brackets are mentioned in the news on the title page and there is no 3D model of mounting brackets./ |
| 09:56.49 | Axman6 | the pics look like mounting brackets to me, but anyway. looks like a cool idea now i know what it does |
| 09:57.14 | Z80-Boy | aha I thought you are talking about the specific part of Ronja that is officially called mounting brackets |
| 09:57.59 | Z80-Boy | The 3D models are important for people to know how to put all the parts together. |
| 09:58.17 | Z80-Boy | Also to see what it looks like how it's interfaced to the building etc. |
| 09:58.28 | Z80-Boy | How bulky it is |
| 09:58.31 | Axman6 | yeah |
| 09:58.55 | Axman6 | what's wrong with wifi and parabolic reflectors anyway? :P |
| 09:59.07 | Z80-Boy | There's nothing wrong with them |
| 09:59.18 | Z80-Boy | They just have a different set of advantages and weaknesses |
| 10:00.51 | Z80-Boy | Here is some discussion of possible problems with WiFi that Ronja can be a solution for: http://ronja.twibright.com/wifi.php |
| 10:13.53 | vedge | Z80-Boy: very cool. i know some people who are having problems with interference from airplanes in my area and it's so bad they're basically stuck with an unreliable cable ISP because of this. |
| 10:14.31 | vedge | we have a very good wifi provider, and i know people there have been trying to figure out a way around this problem. i'll send them the link. |
| 10:18.17 | Z80-Boy | I had an Internet connection through 2 Ronjas in series and it was quite reliable |
| 10:18.30 | Z80-Boy | The biggest problem was they were still prototypes and in process of debugging |
| 10:18.51 | Z80-Boy | But they still genrally appeared to be more reliable than wifis and cables we had in the same network :) |
| 10:26.55 | vedge | cool |
| 10:28.36 | vedge | i'm opening a pcb shop, in case you're looking for a small/medium qty manufacturer in north america |
| 10:36.10 | archivist | vedge #electronics has people asking about pcb makers now and again |
| 10:36.55 | Z80-Boy | vedge: I already have a company where I send prototypes |
| 10:39.53 | Z80-Boy | vedge: can you send post order internationally? |
| 10:41.05 | Z80-Boy | Can you do all the necessary technologies - HAL, through plating, solder mask, edge routing? |
| 10:41.11 | Z80-Boy | I mean edge milling |
| 10:45.42 | vedge | archivist: thanks for the tip |
| 10:46.14 | vedge | Z80-Boy: i'm in canada, i think sending small pcbs internationally through canada post would be around $10 |
| 10:47.11 | Z80-Boy | If you were interested you could sell the Ronja PCBs and I could put you on the website as a supplier |
| 10:47.22 | vedge | i can do all of this, but i don't have a machine in my PCB assembly line for edge milling, extra setup time would be involved for that |
| 10:47.45 | Z80-Boy | The transmitter has 3 rectangular millings |
| 10:48.05 | Z80-Boy | can you dissolve the cost in a larger series? |
| 10:48.49 | vedge | i wonder if punch pressing would work for PCB material, that would be a lot cheaper than actual milling. |
| 10:48.51 | Z80-Boy | Here is the old shop http://ronjashop.com/info.php?lang=en |
| 10:48.53 | vedge | yes |
| 10:49.06 | Z80-Boy | I don't know if this guy is still operating |
| 10:49.17 | Z80-Boy | He doesn't seem to having upgraded from Twister to Twister2 |
| 10:49.24 | archivist | pressing is normal for paper boards |
| 10:49.33 | Z80-Boy | He has the prices on his website you could see if you can be competitive |
| 10:50.06 | Z80-Boy | Of course only in case such a small project is actually interesting for you financially |
| 10:52.46 | vedge | my equipment is not entirely ready for production just yet, i'm still working on the testing phase. i'll get back to you on this. |
| 10:53.41 | vedge | i have basically all of the fabrication equipment ready, but no testing system. |
| 10:54.40 | Z80-Boy | you mean electrical and optical testing? |
| 10:55.53 | vedge | yes |
| 10:56.02 | vedge | and i can't exactly afford a $200k "bed of nails" |
| 10:57.12 | Z80-Boy | I wonder if with all the cost of handling individual orders a project like Ronja could be interesting for you financially |
| 10:57.40 | archivist | heh send RF testing to me in the UK |
| 10:57.51 | Z80-Boy | It should theoretically be a small, but continuous income |
| 10:58.31 | Z80-Boy | Like the Ronjashop sold already about 500 boards IIRC |
| 10:58.55 | Z80-Boy | It's actually a student who always orders a series of 100 or 200 and then sells it apart individually |
| 10:59.16 | Z80-Boy | You get 1/6 of the price you would pay if you ordered your board individually in a PCB manufacturere. |
| 10:59.34 | vedge | oh, this is exactly the sort of project i'm interested into. |
| 10:59.44 | Z80-Boy | that's good |
| 10:59.59 | vedge | i have a mostly-automated assembly line, i order films and supplies in bulk, but it's far from being a big plant. |
| 11:00.15 | Z80-Boy | Can you do optical testing? |
| 11:00.48 | Z80-Boy | I think below 3 pieces no testing is prescribed and above 3 optical I am not sure |
| 11:01.22 | Z80-Boy | One should also check if the gerbers can be loaded into your system. I am using a free software that generates the negative drawing command which some softwares that don |
| 11:01.22 | vedge | what do you mean by optical testing? |
| 11:01.32 | Z80-Boy | t implement RS 274-X completely cannot crunch |
| 11:01.43 | vedge | oh, sure. i'm using my own software for this. |
| 11:01.45 | Z80-Boy | Making a picture of the board and comparing with a reference picture |
| 11:01.51 | Z80-Boy | to find copper bridges gaps etc. |
| 11:02.44 | Z80-Boy | You could even sell with part bags if it were interesting for you, like kits - would be more convenient for the user, would increase interest in the project and sales |
| 11:03.00 | Z80-Boy | Now the interest is going down due to 5GHz WiFi competition. |
| 11:03.14 | Z80-Boy | And because people have to buy all the parts themselves |
| 11:04.17 | Z80-Boy | I hope once maybe someone manages to run a shop like this and sponsor my project so I can improve the kilometers and megabits increase interest and his sales |
| 11:04.23 | Z80-Boy | Kinda mutual symbiosis |
| 11:07.01 | vedge | as far as optical testing goes, i suppose it would depend on the resolution. i don't have a microscope unfortunately. |
| 11:07.22 | Z80-Boy | Or can you manufacture it reliably? |
| 11:07.27 | vedge | i have a machine shop, i could probably manufacture parts but i don't know if it would be cost effective at all. i'd have to look more closely at the model. |
| 11:07.44 | Z80-Boy | I don't mean machine parts, but electronics parts |
| 11:07.52 | Z80-Boy | diodes transistors resistors LEDs HC gates |
| 11:09.40 | vedge | sure, but it's just a matter of cost. my process is reliable but i still need to figure out bare-PCB testing |
| 11:10.38 | vedge | if put a potentially defect board on the pick and place and then functional testing reveals problems i can't really recover the parts. |
| 11:21.15 | Z80-Boy | vedge: I don't mean that you would populate the boards. That would be an unnecessary cost. The user can populate it himself easily. |
| 11:23.34 | vedge | i'm not sure optical comparison would be that useful with my process. i'd expect most defects to involve the vias, as opposed to the surface of the board, unless there are very tiny features. |
| 11:24.12 | Z80-Boy | vedge: I misinformed with an old information. The existing shop apparently already upgraded to Twister2. |
| 11:24.13 | vedge | populating the boards isn't expensive for me if the components are SMT |
| 11:24.55 | Z80-Boy | Some are not |
| 11:25.41 | Z80-Boy | you could pre-populate the SMT ones, though. |
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| 13:00.15 | Defcon | oem version :D |
| 13:00.19 | Defcon | guess not ^^ |
| 13:01.06 | Maloeran | You think so? I'll look for the usual refund clause in the EULA |
| 13:01.42 | Maloeran | I think the point is mostly to annoy HP for forcing me to buy software I didn't want |
| 13:02.21 | Z80-Boy | Forcing? Noone is forcing you into buying anything :) |
| 13:02.33 | Z80-Boy | You had an option to not buy the whole notbeook |
| 13:03.38 | Defcon | no |
| 13:03.53 | Defcon | there was another case just like this |
| 13:04.04 | Defcon | the guy won like 1200$ back |
| 13:04.13 | minute | wtf? |
| 13:04.20 | Z80-Boy | and how much did he pay for lawyers? |
| 13:04.30 | Defcon | he won |
| 13:04.37 | Defcon | so nothing..? |
| 13:05.01 | Z80-Boy | In such case I prefer designing my own hardware that works 100%. |
| 13:05.12 | Z80-Boy | Courts and lawyers are inherently unreliable and can backfire |
| 13:05.27 | Defcon | indeed |
| 13:05.48 | Z80-Boy | For example since I made myself Ronja, I now don't have to care about NDA binary-only WiFi drivers, bugs in WiFi firmware and how badly they designed their access method |
| 13:06.16 | Maloeran | Z80-Boy, I didn't sign the EULA before buying the laptop |
| 13:06.21 | Maloeran | And there's clearly a refund clause in there |
| 13:06.26 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: that's good |
| 13:06.53 | Z80-Boy | Maloeran: so you should get your money back easily, shouldn't you |
| 13:07.18 | Maloeran | Theorically, yes. I'm sure they don't enjoy doing this though |
| 13:07.36 | Z80-Boy | Noone enjoys coughing up money |
| 13:07.37 | Defcon | http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/94705/index.html |
| 13:07.50 | Defcon | i thought he got more money than this |
| 13:08.18 | Maloeran | 140 euros, not too bad |
| 13:10.22 | Z80-Boy | Noone should really complain about hardware anymore since we have free software for designing hardware |
| 13:10.23 | Defcon | indeed not |
| 13:10.31 | Z80-Boy | And we have that already for several years |
| 13:10.56 | Defcon | ppl tend to complain very fast |
| 13:11.04 | Z80-Boy | It's like - you don't like Microsoft Windows? Take Linux. If you don't like that one, pimp it up until you like it ;-) |
| 13:11.52 | Maloeran | http://www.rayforce.net/hp000.png |
| 13:11.56 | Z80-Boy | Or like complaining that AutoCAD is crap and not taking BRL-CAD |
| 13:12.03 | Defcon | and what if ppl can't pimp it up |
| 13:12.35 | Defcon | lol Maloeran |
| 13:13.23 | Maloeran | Looks clear enough to me |
| 13:14.00 | Z80-Boy | Doesn't Leninovo sell notebooks without Windows? |
| 13:15.01 | Z80-Boy | By using Vista you agree to a) not have any opinion b) stop thinking c) obey everything Microsoft says d) voluntarily and irrevocably giving up your all human rights to Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) |
| 13:15.56 | Defcon | Don't sell your soul to the devil! |
| 13:16.49 | Z80-Boy | I don't like products for whose usage I need a lawyer |
| 13:17.08 | Z80-Boy | Lawyers are expensive and it totals up pretty expensive :) |
| 13:22.40 | Defcon | haha yeah |
| 13:23.45 | Maloeran | The point is more to get these companies to stop trying to force buying software on people |
| 13:24.19 | Maloeran | Although I'm leaving for south america in 4 days, it's not the best timing to begin even a brief legal battle |
| 13:25.36 | Defcon | :D |
| 13:27.49 | minute | Maloeran: They aren't forcing people to buy antyhing. |
| 13:28.20 | minute | You choose to buy a laptop that comes with Vista installed, you could easily choose to purchase a laptop that doesn't. |
| 13:28.32 | Defcon | if you want that particular laptop/.. they are |
| 13:28.52 | Maloeran | minute, there's an EULA that states I can get a refund for it |
| 13:28.53 | Defcon | as a customer you have the right to buy the laptop without software |
| 13:28.57 | Defcon | indeed |
| 13:29.02 | Maloeran | I didn't agree to the EULA before purchasing the laptop |
| 13:29.27 | minute | Maloeran: So get a refund? |
| 13:29.36 | Maloeran | Will try to |
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| 19:12.49 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you | |
| 20:18.17 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (38 files in 38 dirs): Initial check-in. |
| 20:22.00 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added 38 more projects. Mostly fb utils and their missing libs. |
| 20:26.52 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Define HAVE_RAND and fmax. |
| 20:29.27 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/orle.h: Added ORLE_EXPORT for exposing variables and functions on windows. |
| 20:30.47 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/vfont-if.h: Mods to expose vfont_get() and vfont_free() on windows. |
| 20:32.25 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (8 files): Mods to get things compiling on windows. |
| 20:35.17 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/include/rle.h: Mods to expose variables and functions. |
| 20:37.47 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (rle_getrow.c rle_open_f.c scanargs.c include/rle_config.h): Mods to get things compiling on windows. |
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| 21:59.18 | starseeker | wee |
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| 22:56.58 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (44 files in 44 dirs): Clean up the project files a little. |
| 23:44.25 | yukonbob | yay! Looks like Tcl 8.5.0 out today... |
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| 00:45.58 | louipc | hurrah |
| 00:57.22 | Maloeran | "I regret to inform you that there is no return policy for the Vista software, either as a refund or a credit from HP." Hum... |
| 00:57.31 | starseeker | TCL 8.5 is out???? |
| 00:59.44 | starseeker | I'll be doggoned: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10894&package_id=10452 |
| 01:00.13 | starseeker | Well, that could simplify matters... |
| 01:05.13 | louipc | Maloeran: sorry |
| 01:05.56 | louipc | I wouldn't think you'd be the type of person to buy a ready-made computer |
| 01:18.07 | Maloeran | louipc, it's difficult to do otherwise with a laptop |
| 01:18.46 | Maloeran | I really searched for laptops without an OS but they had to be shipped, and I didn't have time for that before I fly to Venezuela |
| 01:18.58 | louipc | ah |
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| 09:34.04 | michelangelo | Hi guys |
| 09:34.16 | michelangelo | I'm interested in BRL-CAD |
| 09:34.37 | michelangelo | I need to understand if it can helps me |
| 09:35.00 | michelangelo | is there anybody here? |
| 09:36.34 | London_Beast | yes |
| 09:38.51 | michelangelo | hi London_Beast |
| 09:39.22 | michelangelo | I need to create a cad to build/compose a kitchen |
| 09:39.53 | michelangelo | but I don't know where I have to start |
| 09:42.47 | michelangelo | any ideas? |
| 09:43.16 | alex_joni | michelangelo: what is the goal of that? |
| 09:43.33 | alex_joni | pictures to show around? media presentation? |
| 09:43.36 | michelangelo | I have to build a project that create a kitchen |
| 09:43.56 | alex_joni | do you need to design all furniture/appliances? |
| 09:44.07 | michelangelo | yes, too |
| 09:44.21 | alex_joni | then you'll looking at quite a bit of work :) |
| 09:44.37 | michelangelo | I need to move the objects on the screen |
| 09:45.25 | michelangelo | and positioning them one near the other |
| 09:45.27 | michelangelo | and at the end print the image |
| 09:45.37 | michelangelo | is it possible? |
| 09:45.38 | alex_joni | do you care about precise sizes and models? |
| 09:45.42 | alex_joni | or more that it looks right? |
| 09:45.44 | michelangelo | yes |
| 09:46.18 | michelangelo | I have my catalogues |
| 09:46.32 | michelangelo | with all graphical sheet |
| 09:47.16 | michelangelo | I can create them with a cad like autocad and then import them in the software on line |
| 09:53.20 | michelangelo | any ideas |
| 09:53.21 | michelangelo | ? |
| 09:53.48 | alex_joni | michelangelo: if you're new with software like this I'd give google sketchup a go |
| 09:54.24 | michelangelo | I know sketchup but it is a standalone |
| 09:54.31 | michelangelo | not a online cad |
| 09:54.37 | alex_joni | sure it is |
| 09:54.57 | alex_joni | you can put models online if you want, but it runs locally |
| 09:55.26 | alex_joni | http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9cc30db305f2bb7bde6df08b6b6b91c9&prevstart=0 |
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| 11:51.43 | Maloeran | Gah. This laptop freezes with a horrible beep randomly within a couple hours with Linux, there must be some driver it really does not like |
| 12:15.38 | Maloeran | It would be very ugly to have to pass acpi=off on a laptop |
| 12:25.29 | alex_joni | Maloeran: did you run memtest? |
| 12:50.23 | Maloeran | Yes, no problem there |
| 12:55.21 | alex_joni | how long? |
| 13:13.36 | Maloeran | I ran memtest until it completed. The freeze/beep occurs after a couple hours typically |
| 13:13.52 | Maloeran | I had no problem so far with aspi=off but that really is not a solution for a laptop |
| 13:15.12 | Maloeran | The laptop had been compiling for hours yesterday just fine, it froze with a loud beep during the night once the compilation was complete |
| 13:34.51 | alex_joni | Maloeran: I'd still leave memtest overnight to see if that catches anything |
| 13:35.00 | alex_joni | might be heat related |
| 13:41.56 | Maloeran | It might be heat related, the problem seems to occur when the laptop gets too cold... It's fine as long as it's busy compiling :), probably because acpi power management kicks in |
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| 13:48.06 | *** join/#brlcad sidyork (n=sidyork@jkaepc01.ohm.york.ac.uk) | |
| 13:48.48 | sidyork | Hi, I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck in running brlcad on os X 10.5? |
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| 13:52.17 | Axman6 | sidyork: heh, funny you mention it... |
| 13:52.29 | Axman6 | ooo, i should see if it builds now i have the X11 patch! |
| 13:53.24 | sidyork | I tried the pre-buil binary but it errors out when launching mged |
| 13:55.25 | Axman6 | which error? |
| 13:56.11 | sidyork | I've just deleted it but I'll reinstall now and paste the error message. |
| 13:56.34 | Axman6 | something about fore foundation? |
| 13:57.07 | Axman6 | core* |
| 13:57.30 | sidyork | yep, that was it |
| 13:59.37 | Axman6 | yeah i donated my MBP to brlcad to see if he could fix it, but not luck so far |
| 14:00.22 | Axman6 | checking again though, because i installed an X11 patch |
| 14:00.39 | sidyork | I'm specifically after some open source software to model some simple 3D structures for our machine shop. Do you think brlcad is suitable, I've had a read of the documentation so I understand there is a learning curve. |
| 14:00.57 | sidyork | I'm not sure you'll have much luck, I had the patch installed when I tried. |
| 14:01.25 | Axman6 | the patch from macosforge? |
| 14:01.45 | London_Beast | Has anyone read Aldous Huxley - Doors of Perception? |
| 14:01.58 | *** join/#brlcad sidyork_ (n=sidyork@sns71-116.york.ac.uk) | |
| 14:02.07 | sidyork_ | Yep |
| 14:02.53 | London_Beast | sidyork_: is it good? |
| 14:02.58 | London_Beast | Does it have pictures? |
| 14:03.16 | London_Beast | Is it written in a complicated language where you have to concentrate a lot to follow the thread? |
| 14:03.57 | Axman6 | i think that yep might ave been for me... |
| 14:05.01 | sidyork_ | Sorry, the yep was for axman6, I'm not a very experienced irc'er |
| 14:07.14 | sidyork_ | axman6: thanks for the help, I'll wait until they release a version for 10.5 |
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| 14:18.08 | Axman6 | ok, it doesn't work with the ipv6 variant |
| 14:18.27 | Axman6 | whoops |
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| 15:11.22 | London_Beast | brlcad: listening to Iggy Pop, I realized that from the BRL-CAD the 70's are still breathing at me :) |
| 15:12.14 | minute | brlcad: If you get a moment can you screenshot the problems in Safari 2, I only have Safari 3? |
| 15:13.14 | Axman6 | minute: you talking about the new site? |
| 15:13.45 | minute | yeah |
| 15:13.53 | Axman6 | i noticed some issues in safari 3 too |
| 15:13.59 | minute | Did you? |
| 15:14.08 | brlcad | minute: I don't have safari 2 |
| 15:14.17 | minute | brlcad: Oh, ok.... |
| 15:14.29 | Axman6 | which appear to be gone now... |
| 15:14.50 | brlcad | motd is still horked, but that's probably just not hooked in? |
| 15:15.06 | Axman6 | yeah it's fine now. excellent |
| 15:15.16 | minute | brlcad: motd? |
| 15:15.38 | brlcad | the quotes at the bottom |
| 15:15.45 | minute | oh yeah |
| 15:16.14 | brlcad | download link is dead too |
| 15:16.22 | brlcad | but that's just data content |
| 15:16.26 | brlcad | style looks great on 3 |
| 15:16.40 | minute | :) |
| 15:21.57 | minute | Download link fixed. |
| 15:23.06 | minute | Quotes fixed. |
| 15:32.19 | brlcad | looks great on opera, firefox, and safari here |
| 15:32.22 | minute | Oh god, I'm so slow. Been developing this site for 5 months 4 weeks. :S |
| 15:33.18 | minute | brlcad: Yeah, fully tested in all of them appart from one little problem I'm working on at the moment. I just need to fix the logo text thing in Internet Explorer and then I think it's good to go except for LDAP not being enabled. |
| 15:33.53 | brlcad | hehe |
| 15:33.54 | alex_joni | minute: I get an extra bottom scrollbar in opera |
| 15:33.59 | brlcad | awesome pic for the runtime libs :) |
| 15:34.03 | alex_joni | but only for "Documentation" |
| 15:34.11 | minute | brlcad: hehe |
| 15:34.16 | minute | alex_joni: I'll take a look. |
| 15:34.22 | alex_joni | minute: and "Support" |
| 15:34.31 | minute | alex_joni: 9.2? |
| 15:35.03 | alex_joni | Version |
| 15:35.04 | alex_joni | 9.24 |
| 15:35.13 | alex_joni | Build: 8816 |
| 15:35.13 | minute | alex_joni: Can you try purging your cache? (Ctrl+Shift+R) |
| 15:35.15 | brlcad | minute: the timing is perfect, can announce the site on our anniversary :) |
| 15:35.24 | minute | brlcad: :D |
| 15:35.40 | minute | brlcad: What date is that? |
| 15:35.42 | alex_joni | minute: no difference |
| 15:36.09 | brlcad | minute: today.. :) |
| 15:36.12 | minute | alex_joni: Can you upload a screenshot to imagebin.ca |
| 15:36.21 | minute | brlcad: :S |
| 15:36.28 | alex_joni | minute: sure.. |
| 15:36.34 | minute | thanks |
| 15:37.49 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/12545 |
| 15:38.28 | minute | uh, odd |
| 15:39.12 | minute | I can't replicate that... |
| 15:39.25 | brlcad | is it only on the mediawiki pages? |
| 15:39.44 | minute | Nope. |
| 15:39.54 | minute | Apparently support and documentation. |
| 15:40.19 | alex_joni | minute: on pages which have "go" & "search" |
| 15:40.30 | brlcad | those two are mediawiki pages :) |
| 15:40.31 | minute | ahh, so mediawiki only then |
| 15:40.32 | alex_joni | pages with "search" only are fine |
| 15:40.33 | minute | lol |
| 15:40.34 | minute | hehe |
| 15:40.52 | minute | Working on it... |
| 15:41.14 | brlcad | maybe just missing a close brace? that tab should be self-expanding now |
| 15:41.33 | brlcad | oooh |
| 15:41.36 | alex_joni | the odd thing is that the extra scrollbar only moves the footer |
| 15:41.36 | brlcad | that's why |
| 15:41.43 | brlcad | minute: scale your font up |
| 15:41.55 | brlcad | i think you used an older copy of the search tabs |
| 15:41.59 | brlcad | one that doesn't expand |
| 15:42.30 | brlcad | or in migrating, just missing something that lets it expand to the content |
| 15:42.35 | prasad_ | why is the bottom frame causing scrollbabars to appear on IE7 |
| 15:43.02 | minute | Ahh, I remember - it has a bug in IE. |
| 15:43.13 | minute | When it is self expanding it works fine in all browsers except IE. |
| 15:43.32 | prasad_ | can u turn off scrollbars for ie? |
| 15:44.33 | alex_joni | yuck.. IE7 is really horrible |
| 15:44.49 | alex_joni | wouldn't have noticed though.. I barely use it |
| 15:45.27 | minute | alex_joni: Is the problem in Opera fixed? |
| 15:46.16 | alex_joni | minute: yup.. looks great |
| 15:46.42 | alex_joni | minute: http://imagebin.org/12546 <- IE7 |
| 15:47.02 | minute | man |
| 15:47.11 | minute | I wish I had IE7 and not just IE6. |
| 15:47.34 | alex_joni | minute: I think I remember a plugin for firefox to preview in multiple browsers |
| 15:47.56 | alex_joni | I think it interpreted pages to replicate browser behaviour.. but I'm not 100% sure |
| 15:48.27 | minute | oh |
| 15:49.43 | minute | Running system restore in preperation for installing IE7 and IE6 in parralel. |
| 15:58.01 | minute | Ok, it doesn't look too bad in IE7 here. |
| 15:58.49 | minute | Working on it. |
| 16:00.56 | minute | Fixored. |
| 16:01.51 | minute | alex_joni: Can you confirm? |
| 16:02.15 | alex_joni | minute: in opera it's great |
| 16:02.23 | alex_joni | in IE7 I still get the bottom scrollbar |
| 16:02.27 | minute | alex_joni: What about the documentation page in IE7? |
| 16:02.35 | alex_joni | on all pages |
| 16:02.39 | minute | The About page has special Drupal caching. |
| 16:02.51 | minute | alex_joni: Can you Ctrl+F5 on the Documentation page? |
| 16:03.16 | alex_joni | the top div (About, Documentation, COmmunity, Develpment,..) seems to small |
| 16:03.20 | alex_joni | text is off to the right |
| 16:04.44 | alex_joni | http://imagebin.org/12547 |
| 16:05.13 | alex_joni | minute: it's the same on all pages |
| 16:06.33 | minute | hmm |
| 16:09.07 | alex_joni | IE 7.0.5730.11 |
| 16:09.59 | minute | Yeah, it is something to do with font sizes. |
| 16:10.26 | minute | alex_joni: Any good now? |
| 16:37.28 | alex_joni | minute: yay.. |
| 16:37.46 | alex_joni | it's not round anymore, but looks good enough |
| 16:40.31 | minute | oh, I'll look into that - but I guess it is good to go. |
| 16:53.28 | alex_joni | yup, I'd say so too |
| 16:53.55 | minute | except for IE6. I'll deal with that now |
| 16:54.05 | yukonbob | hello, cadheads |
| 16:56.36 | minute | yukonbob: Hey yukonbob. |
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| 17:01.29 | yukonbob | hey minute -- having fun whacking bugs on the website? |
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| 22:57.06 | minute | yukonbob: Yeah, sorry about the slow response - had a chinese takeout at a friends house - have you noticed any? |
| 22:57.47 | minute | brlcad: I'm working on the IE 6 and lower header text right now - anything else you can see that is prventing us with going ahead with a release (other than LDAP, of course). |
| 23:10.55 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:20.26 | minute | And I need to get myself a better graphics editing program than the GIMP. |
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| 23:48.33 | minute | Maybe not, night night all. |
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| 02:57.27 | IriX64 | regards |
| 02:59.12 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/edit.png <--- bldging391 latest build :) |
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| 15:02.41 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 4 dirs): probably going to revert to a libbu solution, but manually null-terminate for now anyways |
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| 18:27.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: |
| 18:27.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: add newly added project files to the dist for: bw2fb cat2fb cell2fb cmap2fb |
| 18:27.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: fb2bw fb2cmap fb2fb fb2orle fb2rle fbanim fbcbars fbcmap fbcmrot fbcolor fbfade |
| 18:27.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: fbframe fbfree fbgamma fbgammamod fbgrid fbhelp fblabel fbline fbpoint |
| 18:27.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: fbscanplot fbstretch fbzoom gif2fb liborle libutahrle orle2fb pixautosize |
| 18:27.17 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: pixflip2fb pl2fb polar2fb pp2fb rle2fb spm2fb |
| 19:31.44 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/flawfinder: the message was wrong for scanf() warnings about the %s modifier when all we know in the default case is that it's not a constant. |
| 19:37.20 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/flawfinder.sh: ignore false positives, finished reviewing all of level four issues too but keep it at five for regression testing |
| 19:37.45 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/load.c: quell flawfinder warnings, check buffer lengths when printing into them |
| 19:39.23 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: get rid of Mess, just did silly print-header-to-stderr+print-body-to-stdout that was mostly used for debugging. just fprintf the output for now (consider bu_log later). |
| 19:39.49 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: -> ws |
| 19:40.22 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (fence.c fence.h pipe.c): const params |
| 19:40.55 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/loop.c: check length while printing into buffers |
| 19:41.11 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vas4/init_ik.c: don't need popen decl. it's in stdio.h |
| 19:45.50 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h src/fb/fbfade.c): rand() is c89/c90 so don't need/want to check for it. check for random() instead. |
| 19:51.47 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: right idea to simplify the loop, but take it a little further. |
| 20:04.12 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob added a new 'ae2dir' command to mged per request from dave loman where the command will report the direction vector for a given azimuth and elevation. there is an invert option to flip the vector around. |
| 20:18.50 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: add the dir2ae pairing to the new ae2dir command. |
| 20:20.16 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: declare new vo_dir2ae_cmd view obj command for dir2ae |
| 20:21.39 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: header cleanup |
| 20:24.10 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c cmd.h): hook in the new dir2ae command |
| 20:26.35 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: just like ae2dir, added new dir2ae for calculating an az/el from a given direction vector. |
| 20:52.53 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: query_ray seems to be blathering warnings/errors |
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| 03:17.51 | James | hello |
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| 03:19.47 | starseeker | cool - Octave 3.0 :-) |
| 03:27.23 | James | very |
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| 06:47.49 | yukonbob | :) |
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| 09:17.11 | minute | God, after spending several hours making the new website compatible with Opera 9.2 Opera 9.5 is released which it is completely compatible with. By this time next week, no one will be using Opera 9.5. :( |
| 09:17.16 | minute | *2 |
| 09:32.14 | Axman6 | people are using opera now? |
| 09:41.18 | minute | Oh wait, wrong version - 9.5 is the alpha, 9.2 is the current. |
| 09:41.26 | minute | Axman6: All my geeky friends use it ;) |
| 09:41.40 | Axman6 | pfft |
| 09:41.53 | minute | And so do I, the only problem I have with it is startup time - but that is fixed in 9.5 alpha. |
| 09:43.36 | Axman6 | opera makes no sense to me, its interface confuses me way too much |
| 09:43.42 | minute | uh? |
| 09:43.51 | minute | Yeah, I guess it has that problem. |
| 09:44.04 | minute | But once you get used to it it is funky. |
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| 16:46.04 | starseeker | brlcad: How much did you need to change itcl/itk to work with tcl/tk 8.5? Could a changeset be isolated fairly easily? |
| 16:49.25 | starseeker | tcl/tk 8.5 ebuilds are in now, still hard masked... |
| 16:49.45 | starseeker | Let's see how this goes... |
| 16:50.08 | yukonbob | 8.5.0 was unleashed other day -- so no more 8.5b[x] required... |
| 16:57.17 | starseeker | Right. |
| 16:57.40 | starseeker | Unfortunately, it looks like itcl, itk, blt, and tkimg in the gentoo overlays aren't going to work yet |
| 16:57.56 | starseeker | the first three won't compile against 8.5, and the forth seems to compile but brlcad wants to build it anyway |
| 16:59.11 | starseeker | presumably brlcad tested the system blt and found it messed up... |
| 17:00.02 | starseeker | Looks like fedora is going to have similar problems... |
| 17:00.37 | starseeker | If we can isolate brlcad's patches for tcl 8.5 and send them in, brlcad could become the hero of the tcl world for a day ;-) |
| 17:00.45 | starseeker | blt, tkimg, itcl... |
| 17:08.11 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:08.38 | brlcad | they were all minor tweaks, iirc |
| 17:08.49 | brlcad | could be that our system blt test is not working right too |
| 17:08.56 | brlcad | have to check the config.log |
| 17:09.14 | brlcad | alas, I'm about to hit the road and will be awol for about two days |
| 17:09.55 | brlcad | i do have 8.5 final sources on my laptop, though, and plan to upgrade our bundling while on the road ;) |
| 17:10.49 | brlcad | Merry Christmas to everyone that celebrates it! :-) |
| 17:12.15 | illethal | Merry xmas =) |
| 17:12.22 | illethal | is it christmas already? |
| 17:13.39 | brlcad | close enough |
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| 18:29.19 | starseeker | brlcad: Are we going to look at tile for a somewhat more native platform appearance? |
| 18:29.36 | starseeker | merry xmas indeed :-) |
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| 22:10.46 | Axman6 | brlcad: merry christmas ;) |
| 22:18.41 | alex_joni | merry christmas everyone: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wskT6YfVB6E |
| 22:18.56 | Axman6 | yes, and the rest, just about to say that :P |
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| 10:59.22 | dli | ../../../../src/adrt/librender/.libs/librender.so: undefined reference to `tie_prep0' |
| 11:00.06 | dli | Makefile.am error in -cvs? or it's my local problem |
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| 21:20.50 | curious | yay, i suceeded installing brlcad |
| 21:30.44 | curious | hmm, now how to load .g files? i've tried one i've found and one of my previous experiments and both seem empty |
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| 22:01.01 | curious | i'm quite total newb. i would like to try to see some example like electric motor |
| 22:24.55 | curious | hmm, yeah, neither mged test.g does not work (opening previously edited database ) |
| 22:41.23 | dli | curious, you can use menu to "create new" |
| 22:41.52 | curious | yes, but how to restore it? creating new works, and file is created |
| 22:42.10 | curious | but neither opening from commandline or thru 'open' work |
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| 08:18.07 | dli | I have to patch Makefile.am in src/adrt/ for "lib = libcommon/libcommon.la" |
| 08:18.30 | dli | it happens when I try to build with gentoo ebuild though |
| 09:13.10 | dli | oh, have to filter LDFLAGS="-Wl,--as-needed" |
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| 11:42.14 | dli | I couldn't type anything with -cvs :( |
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| 00:26.43 | IriX64 | http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/inprogress.png and http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/complete.png <---- Version 7.11.0 on cygwin |
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| 04:16.23 | dli | brlcad has different source files for ia32 and x86_64 |
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| 05:50.23 | IriX64 | http://rafb.net/p/LmHj4g49.html <---- install time issues |
| 06:12.38 | Axman6 | is IriX64 a bot or what? |
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| 06:17.45 | dli | IriX64, what's your ./configure line? |
| 06:18.17 | IriX64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:19.29 | dli | IriX64, add: --enable-optimized --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build --with-pic --with-tag |
| 06:19.47 | IriX64 | ok i'll try that |
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| 15:53.41 | *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you | |
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| 20:57.08 | yukonbob | hello, whirled |
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| 01:36.51 | cadguy | Merry Christmas all! |
| 02:05.10 | digitalfredy | cadguy tanks :) |
| 03:19.04 | cadguy | Anyone familiar with Visual Studio? |
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| 11:57.55 | MinuteElectron | cadguy: Yes, I am... |
| 11:57.59 | MinuteElectron | But you're not here. |
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| 20:55.08 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: When you get back from your road trip; you have a PM. |
| 20:55.11 | MinuteElectron | :) |
| 20:55.36 | MinuteElectron | Actually, disregard that - you don't. :) |
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| 23:25.25 | IriX64 | ?+e6?!?!? <--- ;) |
| 23:27.30 | IriX64 | can i remove those screen shots from my blog now or would you like them left for advertising :) |
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| 00:56.41 | starseeker | Link? :-) |
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| 13:17.19 | Paul58 | Hello! How can I uninstall brl-cad, because I want to install new version? |
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| 13:21.25 | elite01 | make uninstall or make remove or so i think |
| 13:32.20 | Axman6 | Paul58: you don't need to uninstall to install a new version though |
| 15:08.09 | Paul58 | Axman6: Thank you. |
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| 11:47.38 | MinuteElectron | brlcad: Second thoughts.. PM :D |
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| 18:38.00 | Paul58 | Hi. I get error message: fb_open: no such device "/dev/sgip". |
| 18:38.08 | Paul58 | What to do? |
| 18:39.11 | Paul58 | I try to learn from BRL-CAD Manual.. |
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| 09:15.31 | Paul58 | On Debian Etch have installed brl-cad version 7.10.4 from tarball. |
| 09:16.10 | Paul58 | When try to raytrace the Mug.g from tutorial, brl-cad crash. |
| 09:16.57 | Paul58 | Where to send bug report if this is possible? |
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| 11:15.40 | Paul58 | Is here anybody? |
| 11:17.58 | Paul58 | Happy New Years! |
| 11:30.35 | Z80-Boy | Paul58: Australia? |
| 11:32.50 | Paul58 | No! Just to say something good. Europa. |
| 11:34.25 | Paul58 | I study Animation Techniques in BRL-CAD |
| 11:34.36 | Paul58 | and all works well, but |
| 11:35.21 | Paul58 | when I do Key Frame Interpolation |
| 11:35.47 | Paul58 | with bash script ``key-chans'' |
| 11:35.56 | Paul58 | I get an error message: |
| 11:36.28 | Paul58 | cmd: file chans.vsize 0 |
| 11:36.38 | Paul58 | chan 0: File 'chans.vsize', Column 1 |
| 11:36.47 | Paul58 | File 'chans.vsize', Line 3: time sequence error 8 > 0.75 |
| 11:36.54 | Paul58 | aborting |
| 11:37.09 | Paul58 | What to do to avoid this? |
| 11:37.49 | Paul58 | The tutorial have a bug.. :( |
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| 14:54.43 | Axman6 | happy new year all |
| 14:55.06 | Z80-Boy | Axman6: the same to you |
| 14:55.18 | Axman6 | :) |
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| 17:30.34 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tested parallel crash report generation. it's still busted. for some reason, the BU_MAPPED_FILE semaphore is getting acquired multiple times simultaneously. |
| 17:31.21 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: move USE_PROTOTYPES up with the __STDC__ define since they're closely related |
| 17:35.22 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (db.h machine.h nmg.h): c89 is assumed, remove the \!__STDC__ protections/sections |
| 17:35.40 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: remove the \!RECORD_DEFINED sections.. struct record (v4) should always be definable if we can assume v4. better to reduce the header file conditionals regardless |
| 17:36.19 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (Hm.c Hm.h HmGetc.c): remove the __STDC__ protections, c89 is a given |
| 17:36.42 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nff.c: use the new bu_temp_file() instead of tmpfile() |
| 17:39.01 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/nastran-g.c: file pointer, not file descriptor. there's a difference. |
| 17:39.52 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: use new bu_temp_file() instead of tmpfile() for temporary files |
| 17:40.26 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/std.h: remove the if not __STDC__ section |
| 17:41.26 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/fortran.c: really odd wrapper.. the uppercase variant seems to never get used/declared contrary to the comment. either way, remove the non __STDC__ section |
| 17:42.18 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/wavelet.c: remove the __STDC__ protections, it's a given |
| 17:45.05 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: |
| 17:45.05 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: fix at least one race-condition problem with parallel crash report generation. |
| 17:45.05 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: acquire a semaphore when printing into the tracefile filename and acquire the |
| 17:45.05 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: BU_SEM_SYSCALL semaphore when printing so we don't interleave with other |
| 17:45.05 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: printing that may be going on. do the same when printing the intentional core |
| 17:45.08 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: dump message. |
| 17:45.45 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: consistently lowercase |
| 17:47.29 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: make a note that bu_crashreport() is NOT thread-safe. it could have an internal semaphore wrapper, but for now, just let callers protect (i.e. leave it up to bu_bomb()) |
| 17:47.52 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/list.c: no longer need assert.h |
| 17:53.42 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (malloc.c vls.c): move bu_strdup_message out of malloc.c and into vls.c, add bu_vls_strcmp() and bu_vls_strncmp() as new functions instead of macros so the sanity checks can be added. |
| 17:54.55 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_vls_strcmp() and bu_vls_strncmp() as functions instead of macros, remove the plethora of __STDC__ protections on the assertion macros and friends. |
| 17:55.56 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/nmg_fcut.c librt/table.c librt/tree.c mged/dodraw.c): remove the non __STDC__ sections, c89 is a given now |
| 17:57.36 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: comment and header cleanup, convert k&r prototypes to ansi, doxygenify |
| 18:03.58 | brlcad | Paul58: that's when you run that command inside mged, yes? (some commands are mged commands, some are unix command-line commands) |
| 18:05.02 | brlcad | inside mged, you shouldn't need the -F:1 unless you want to create a window on an X11 :1 xserver |
| 18:09.21 | Paul58 | brlcad: I try to create Cup from the Manual. |
| 18:09.27 | brlcad | okay |
| 18:11.24 | brlcad | outside of mged on the unix command-line, type fbhelp -- what does it say for "Device: ..."? |
| 18:11.30 | Paul58 | Ewerything works well except raytrace. |
| 18:11.44 | brlcad | it should say something like /dev/X or /dev/ogl |
| 18:12.41 | brlcad | also, did you compile yourself or use a binary installation? |
| 18:12.51 | Paul58 | fbhelp produce here the blank screen .. |
| 18:13.09 | brlcad | ahh, sounds like you compiled with the ogl interface .. |
| 18:13.15 | Paul58 | I use Window Maker with plenty of Desktops.. |
| 18:13.22 | brlcad | it provokes a nasty X11 bug that blacks out the screen |
| 18:13.44 | Paul58 | on that Desktop, where I run fbhelp command in xterm, the screen is blank. |
| 18:13.46 | brlcad | move the mouse around, or ctrl-c to kill the window |
| 18:14.00 | brlcad | it should recover the desktop |
| 18:14.06 | Paul58 | Device: /dev/ogl |
| 18:14.15 | brlcad | yeah, that's no good ... |
| 18:14.15 | Paul58 | yes, it recovers the Desktop |
| 18:14.42 | brlcad | you compiled brl-cad from sources? |
| 18:14.50 | Paul58 | from tarball |
| 18:15.19 | Paul58 | installed it from tarball |
| 18:15.29 | brlcad | from a binary or source tarball? |
| 18:15.39 | Paul58 | wait .. |
| 18:15.47 | brlcad | there shouldn't be a binary with ogl enabled... |
| 18:16.09 | brlcad | if it was from sources, you want to have used the --without-opengl configure option |
| 18:16.54 | Paul58 | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559 |
| 18:17.10 | Paul58 | here I select brlcad_7.10.4_ia32.tar.bz2 |
| 18:17.22 | brlcad | wow |
| 18:17.24 | Paul58 | download it, unpack, etc. |
| 18:17.51 | brlcad | okay, then that was an unfortunate mistake.. there shouldn't have been any binaries uploaded with ogl enabled for 7.10.4 .. :( |
| 18:18.02 | Paul58 | :( |
| 18:18.03 | brlcad | you can still work around the problem |
| 18:18.20 | Paul58 | or download the source? |
| 18:18.21 | brlcad | you have to specify the /dev/X framebuffer |
| 18:18.28 | brlcad | or yeah, recompile from sources |
| 18:18.42 | brlcad | in mged try this: rt -F/dev/X |
| 18:18.52 | Paul58 | I decide to recompile it from source |
| 18:18.53 | brlcad | should pop up a 512x512 window with a raytrace |
| 18:19.00 | Paul58 | OK |
| 18:20.46 | Paul58 | I tried rt -F/dev/X and here I get a small window with 'bu_log: write error' message |
| 18:21.17 | Paul58 | I hit Ok button and brl-cad disappeares. |
| 18:21.22 | brlcad | gah |
| 18:21.46 | Paul58 | I think I go now to download sources.. |
| 18:21.47 | brlcad | do you get the same message if you run "mged -f" ? |
| 18:21.54 | Paul58 | wait.. |
| 18:22.14 | brlcad | that will run mged in foreground mode and changes the logging channels |
| 18:23.27 | Paul58 | I run now 'mged -f' and here I get the mged command window and the other, graphics window |
| 18:23.51 | brlcad | k, and then rt -F/dev/X ? |
| 18:23.57 | Paul58 | wait.. |
| 18:24.03 | brlcad | same write error or works? |
| 18:25.08 | Paul58 | No errors, but nothing happen. |
| 18:25.17 | Paul58 | It works? |
| 18:25.27 | brlcad | no, that's not right -- you should see a new window |
| 18:25.43 | brlcad | what about "rt -F/dev/Xl" (with an "ell") |
| 18:27.02 | Paul58 | Wow, it works with "rt -F/dev/Xl" !! :) |
| 18:27.11 | brlcad | ahhh, great |
| 18:27.21 | brlcad | so the lingering option isn't working for some reason |
| 18:27.48 | Paul58 | Can I help you now somehow? |
| 18:28.29 | brlcad | you already have :) |
| 18:28.33 | Paul58 | :) |
| 18:28.43 | Paul58 | Thank you! |
| 18:29.00 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: the new linger-by-default option doesn't seem to be working at least with 7.10.4 on ia32 linux, reported by Paul58 |
| 18:29.16 | brlcad | if you set the FB_FILE environment variable to /dev/Xl, you'll not ever need to use -F/dev/Xl |
| 18:29.18 | Paul58 | My system is Debian Etch. |
| 18:29.30 | Paul58 | OK |
| 18:29.45 | brlcad | (e.g. add it to your .bash_profile: export FB_FILE=/dev/Xl) |
| 18:29.47 | Paul58 | Where can I set this variable? |
| 18:29.50 | Paul58 | OK |
| 18:30.04 | brlcad | then next time you log in, it'll be automatically set |
| 18:30.16 | brlcad | or next time you create a new terminal window |
| 18:31.00 | Paul58 | Thank you! |
| 18:31.38 | Paul58 | I try it out now. |
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| 18:43.17 | Paul58 | brlcad: It works, but I must to run mged with -f option. Thank you! |
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| 19:07.47 | brlcad | Paul58: glad to hear it |
| 19:07.58 | Paul58 | :) |
| 19:07.59 | brlcad | hopefully the other issues will be fixed for the upcoming 7.12 release |
| 19:08.11 | brlcad | (hopefully in jan) |
| 19:08.13 | Paul58 | I hope so too. |
| 19:08.55 | Paul58 | Thank you! |
| 19:15.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/str.c: (log message trimmed) |
| 19:15.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: add initial implementation of bu_strlcat() and bu_strlcpy() that provide safe |
| 19:15.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: wrappers around the string functions of similar name. if they're not available, |
| 19:15.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: then the strn family are used and appropriate null-termination behavior is |
| 19:15.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: matched from the strl family. warnings are printed if we exceed the specified |
| 19:15.17 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: max size. similar to bu_strdup(), the interface is wrapped in macros so that we |
| 19:15.19 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: can report file:line numbers when there is a problem. additionally, move |
| 19:15.43 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: moved bu_strdupm() to new src/libbu/str.c file |
| 19:16.50 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: include stddef.h for size_t and declare the new bu_strlcatm() and bu_strlcpym() functions and their associated bu_strlcat/bu_strlcpy macro wrappers. |
| 19:17.11 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add str.c to the compilation |
| 19:19.15 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add the new src/libbu/str.c file to the windows build |
| 19:24.40 | *** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-110-118.dclient.hispeed.ch) | |
| 20:25.54 | CIA-30 | BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (78 files in 10 dirs): header cleanup, more address removal |
| 21:19.45 | Paul58 | I study file:///usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4/share/brlcad/7.10.4/html/manuals/Anim_Tutorial/index.html |
| 21:20.35 | Paul58 | When I do tabinterp |
| 21:20.35 | Paul58 | I get an error message: |
| 21:20.50 | Paul58 | cmd: file chans.vsize 0 |
| 21:20.58 | Paul58 | chan 0: File 'chans.vsize', Column 1 |
| 21:21.06 | Paul58 | File 'chans.vsize', Line 9: time sequence error 8 > 0.75 |
| 21:21.13 | Paul58 | aborting |
| 21:21.52 | Paul58 | I did everything like red there, but get this error. Why? |
| 23:07.09 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
| 23:46.31 | *** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) | |
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