irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070101

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08:39.07MaloeranMay this new year bring peace and harmony in all IT departments!
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17:30.07``Erikooh, that reminds me, I need to check bofh
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070102

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070102

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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070103

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070103

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19:44.23dliI'm learning brlcad, the radio (lesson), the radio is rotating now, how to stop it
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21:13.57brlcaddli: press 0
21:14.55brlcadxyzXYZ rotate along the corresponding axis, 0 stops the rotation  (in the graphics window)
21:15.49dlibrlcad, thanks, I pressed 'z', that's the reason
21:16.35brlcad1,2,3 set to default views iirc
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070104

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070104

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01:30.14Twingyheh
05:03.58``Eriklook at it this way, mal, at least he's gotten over the mmbop thing.
06:22.56brlcadhehe, fun with elastic fluids http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8183380788103127428
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18:44.55IriX64bu_free() ?!?!?
18:44.59IriX64;)
18:45.59IriX64should work even if its a pointer to a pointer right?
19:32.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tgc reports one hit errors though hit point has 0,0,0 direction implying that maybe the point was supposedly deleted
22:41.24MaloeranEh, nice question from IriX64
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070105

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070105

08:44.07*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:44.28clock_Hello
08:44.52clock_Do you know how to make an animation, where the model I created is rotating?
08:45.03clock_I want it for better clarity how it's composed.
08:45.56clock_There seems to be rt_simple manpage missing - is it a bug?
08:46.22clock_And when in the mged console and I press pageup, pagedown and then type a command, the command is inserted *before* the prompt instead of after it, and then is ignored.
08:46.27clock_Is this also a bug?
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15:03.34brlcadclock_: yes, regarding page up/down bug .. regarding rt_simple, not really though a manpage would be nice
15:03.47brlcadfeel free to write one.. it's a simple tool :)
15:05.47clock_I found some guide for animation.
15:19.50brlcadclock_: there was a message posted to the list several months ago for how (but Butler) for doing exactly that (rotating an object, making an animation)
15:19.58brlcads/but/from/
15:21.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (241 files in 8 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:21.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: initial import of the openNURBS initiative's nurbs toolkit. the toolkit
15:21.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: consists of code for reading/writing .3dm files used by Rhino as well as nurbs
15:21.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: evaluation and other geometry processing facilities. the library is being
15:21.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: evaluated for .3dm support as well as potentially gutting the existing nurbs
15:21.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: primitive and using openNURBS evaluation routines instead (still probably need
15:21.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: to implement ray shot evaluation). this is version 200612050 (aka 4.0).
15:22.12clock_brlcad: I have read about the keyframes I think this will be better than a simple rotation.
15:24.50brlcada better animation guide is really needed -- i'm not too fond of the existing, though it does go into detail
15:25.22brlcadit's not even really a guide
15:25.28brlcadit was a technical paper about the technique
15:28.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/on4-gcc4-patch: the user-provided gcc4 patch that fixes compilation was applied (basically added a lot of explicit this-> designations), no need to keep the file around though
15:32.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review 'eclectic' from GSI as a tessellation approach, review and merge the other GSI modifications
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15:39.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: if endgame framework simulation module compilation was requested, traverse into the EndgameFramework dir
15:40.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/EndgameFramework/Makefile.am: stub makefile.am so traversal will work
15:47.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the endgame framework makefile
17:23.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the originator/vendor for 'compiler' instead of the name of the compiler since we may use multiple at once in some odd configurations
18:16.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_zlib.h: zlib wasn't included, so update code to reflect usage of a usual zlib.h
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19:46.10clock_I think the user doesn't care if Animation techniques happened to be presented as an ARL technical report, presented by a user group, or are considered a principle of effective modelling.
19:46.37clock_I think what the user cares is to distinguish between animation, primitives, raytracing, and other technical terms.
19:47.10clock_Therefore I suggest the documentation on the website not to be categorized according to into which bureaucratical category this or that document happened to fall, but according to the content itself.
19:49.38brlcadclock_: i quite agree
19:50.46brlcadwhenver the new website comes on-line, it'll be better organized like that .. not much worth futzing with the existing unless something's painfully bad
19:50.48clock_I also wouldn't categorize into "documentation" and "other resources"
19:50.52brlcadunless you'd like to clean it up? :)
19:51.20clock_I want to find out about term/concept X. Is there a black box into which I type "X" and it says "look under other resources, not under Documentation"?
19:51.38brlcadyeah, we need a wiki for that
19:52.01clock_no for that you just need to edit the headlines
19:52.48brlcader, what headlines?
19:53.28clock_also "project site" is ridiculous. Isn't the brl-cad.org a project site by itself? Isn't BRL-CAD a project?
19:54.01clock_I suggest "Project site" to be renamed to "sourceforge page"
19:54.39clock_Also "introduction into MGED" into "tutorial for beginners"
19:54.44brlcadclock_: yes and no, but the suggest is noted
19:55.18clock_Really, when a beginner comes, he has an idea "I want to learn the basics", and he has no idea that "learn basics" translates into "introduction to mged"
19:55.21brlcadit's not really a tutorial for beginners, it's a lot of tutorials
19:55.29brlcadunless you want to call it one massive tutorial
19:55.37brlcadwhich doesn't seem right given it's length
19:56.05brlcadmind you, I quite agree for the need .. again, I ask -- you willing to make the changes? :)
19:56.34clock_"principles of effective modelling" sounds like a textbook. I would name the link "how to model effectively with BRL-CAD"
19:57.01brlcadthat's what I mentioned about it just not being much worth the effort without the rest of the site infrastructure in place
19:57.18clock_I mean a beginner will think "this sounds like a title of some general abstract textbook about CSG, which is not specific to BRL-CAD, therefore I'm gonna skip this link, this link will not probably contain the information I am looking for"
19:57.22brlcadelse someone(tm) spends several days/weeks of valuable time going through customizing the site
19:57.46brlcadclock_: you do know where those docs come from?
19:58.16brlcadthey are books .. printed books .. makes a lot more sense when someone drops 10 pounds of books in your lap, all related to brl-cad
19:58.39brlcadthey were literally just "tossed up" onto the website in the fastest way possible just so they were accessible
19:59.03clock_You are thinking the 60's style, when people had to work only with one computer software.
19:59.04brlcadthere never is/was a claim that more work isn't needed, that they can't be better organized, that more effort "should" go towards them
19:59.12brlcadbullshit
19:59.21brlcadi'm saying you're not listening :)
19:59.25clock_Today they have to work with hundreds of different softwares. The documentation must be simplified and accessible as much as possible.
19:59.44clock_It's not possible anymore to conceive everything like a book that is supposed to be read on long winter evenings.
19:59.47brlcadAND I AGREE
19:59.52brlcadare YOU going to do it?
19:59.56clock_no
20:00.03brlcadthen stop preaching
20:00.09clock_Why?
20:00.19brlcadbecause it's counterproductive
20:00.23clock_I am just telling my suggestions
20:00.56brlcadwell, you diverged from a suggestion a while ago
20:01.48clock_Do you have a new version of the website being prepared somewhere?
20:03.06brlcadthe ideas are fine, and welcome in themselves -- especially for the website, a lot is very much needed -- what is up there now is utterly the *bare minimum* effort that was possible, becuase there wasn't available effort for anything more really
20:04.05brlcadthe basic design and layout are done, there was a couple people testing out various content management systems as well and that was narrowed down to what is needed
20:04.56brlcadbut yes, there is a new version that has been under development since the first files were thrown up -- it's just the website has priority under most everything else usually (for better or worse)
20:05.21clock_Sorry I don't have time to help you with the website now I am trying to make an animated raytrace of a coloured Ronja part
20:05.29brlcadthere's not enough community involvement, so the bare minimum stays up there
20:05.45brlcadand I'm trying to integrate the new foundation for improved NURBS support :)
20:05.56clock_I had a wiki on Ronja but I abandoned it after some time because
20:06.01clock_- it got hacked
20:06.06clock_- it got filled with spam
20:06.07brlcadheh
20:06.21clock_- the content people posted was sometimes inaccurate and misleading
20:06.29clock_- it required frequent security updates
20:06.36clock_- it was hard to upgrade
20:06.44brlcaddoesn't have to be an open wiki, that would be pretty crazy
20:07.05clock_I stayed back with manually-edited PHP HTML and I am happy with it
20:07.16brlcadand several of those issues are specific to the wiki you chose
20:09.22brlcadit's really just been a matter of priorities .. the website is probably the #3 biggest problem are right now
20:09.30clock_I tried first twiki, later when it got hacked I switched to Mediawiki
20:09.51clock_Well your website isn't the worst
20:10.08clock_the worst website in my opinion is of the linux kernel, http://www.kernel.org
20:10.30brlcad#2 supporting existing users sufficiently
20:11.02brlcad#1 modeling interface, usability
20:15.56brlcadbrl-cad's old website was manually-edited php html .. it was a pain in the arse to maintain
20:16.13brlcadand to add major features was unthinkable
20:16.54brlcadthere's a lot of good effort going into CMS that make them appealing, even if they have limitations or a learning curve
20:17.58brlcadanyhow we're pretty much past that learning curve -- it's down to just actually installing and setting it up.  the content is gathered together, the design is set, graphics created .. just need the time to set it up some weekend
20:18.27clock_I was surprised that I modelled a lens from glass and it really distorted the image - and caused a light from a light source to be concentrated
20:19.03brlcadit should give you perfect refraction
20:19.26clock_Yes looked like a perfect refraction
20:19.27brlcadwhich isn't realistic for normal glass, but useful
20:19.47clock_what do you mean with perfect refraction?
20:20.22clock_Without chromatic aberration?
20:20.22dtidrow_workno wavelength depedence, perhaps?
20:20.34brlcadthere's no participating media interaction .. microscopic air bubbles that might distort the image, blur, polarize, band filter, etc
20:23.08brlcadthe multispectral library could do wavelength-dependent interactions, give you polarizations, filterings, etc .. if you wrote the appropriate multispectral shader to simulate the medium (glass in this case, or a sufficient phong or cook-torrence shader perhaps)
20:26.20clock_I have great difficulty with that because even Firefox copies everything as one line
20:26.32clock_Maybe giving key-chans for download would be more convenient.
20:27.16brlcadkey-chans?
20:27.27clock_yes, key-chans
20:27.50brlcad~key-chans
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20:29.58clock_hmm, key-chans seems to work even on OpenBSD - with their chronically exotic versions of various UNIX utilities. This one is using awk as I can see
20:32.12dliI'm learning "Learning about Boolean Expressions", the auto operation order is confusing to me, can I specify the order like ( shape1 u shape2) - ( shape3 u shape4)
20:35.30brlcaddli: there are a couple commands that accept infix notation, but most are prefix
20:35.45brlcadmaybe see http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/cs2121/fix.html for a conversion
20:35.59dlibrlcad, thanks
20:36.23brlcador build it up if you want to keep it simple
20:37.03clock_I am sure for most people the necessity to cut-copy-paste UNIX shellscripts from a website and type a lot of typo-prone commands would be the ultimate turnoff
20:37.06dlibrlcad, you mean, I first got shape1 + shape2, etc?
20:37.06brlcadmake object outer: shape1 u shape2 .. then object inner: shape3 u shape 4 .. then final object: outer - inner
20:37.18clock_and that it would motivate them to stop using BRL-CAD and start using some commercial competition instead
20:38.44brlcadclock_: and for a valuable minority, hopefully encourage them to contribute to help make the open source project better
20:39.23clock_brlcad: the problem is, I see these problems on majority of the tools, and I unfortunately don't have time to engage in improvement of all of them
20:39.28brlcadthere's lots of great ideas, and lots of energy going around -- just not towards the tools in a unified manner so much
20:39.35clock_I think it's more efficient to engage in improvement of my own crap, i. e. Ronja
20:40.09brlcadclock_: i didn't mean you specifically this time ;)
20:40.22clock_When people send me ideas about Ronja ("this link should be called differently because it's confusing"), I put the into my TODO list and they get eventually done :)
20:40.44brlcadthat is the issue -- everyone has their own investment and requirements.. have to get people excited and interested in contributing, making it "worth it" for them
20:41.17brlcadas do I, massive TODO file
20:41.24brlcadand gets towards #2 that I was talking about
20:42.23brlcadwe simply have way more coming in than can go out
20:42.29dtidrow_workbrlcad: how many K is that TODO file?  ;-)
20:42.32brlcadgiven current involvement
20:43.20brlcaddtidrow_work: not really representative by K as I'll consolidate something that might be a man-year's effort into a 1-liner
20:43.55dtidrow_workah
20:44.29brlcadclock_: the animation tools are not production-ready, if I didn't say that before -- they were a hack implemented 15 years ago to make a few movies and haven't changed since
20:44.59dtidrow_workI love those on the todo list - one innocent looking line explodes into a whole mess of work...  :-\
20:45.17clock_15 years ago lol :)
20:45.21brlcadyeah .. "* add support for levels of detail"
20:45.31dtidrow_worklol
20:45.43brlcad"librt-based path tracer"
20:45.46clock_I wrote a game for ZX Spectrum 10 years ago and recently I finally published it :)
20:46.31dtidrow_workin basic?
20:46.52clock_no in Z80 assembler
20:47.06dtidrow_workgosh, even ten years ago the ZX was old
20:48.32brlcadhmm.. looks like there's currently 77 items in the todo file, 46 in the bugs file, 23 in the feature tracker, 48 in the bug tracker, and about two dozen outstanding support requests via e-mail (that will each take about a half a day of time to respond to)
20:49.16dtidrow_workheh
20:49.36dtidrow_workso how many man-decades does that mean?  ;-)
20:50.04brlcadcompiled a list of pressing modeler needs here locally after getting together with several of them .. the list they generated of the most pressing needs accummulated to about 8 man-years of work iirc
20:50.51MaloeranBut that's 6 months of brlcad and ``Erik work, right? :)
20:50.56brlcadi dunno for the whole list.. it's probably on the order or 15-150 years .. depends on the polish :)
20:51.25brlcadMaloeran: heh..
20:51.48dtidrow_workbrlcad: do you even remember what 'sleep' is?  ;-)
20:52.09MaloeranA glibc wrapper around the syscall, of course
20:52.29dtidrow_workha ha ha
20:52.32brlcadplenty of time to sleep when I'm dead
20:53.03brlcadwhich might not be too long after a few more years like this
20:53.14dlihow do I adjust a parameter of a defined shape (prim)?
20:53.21brlcadbut then rowing, lifting, and biking keep me young ;)
20:53.41brlcaddli: you want the command-line method, or the gui method?
20:54.02brlcadcommand-line: sed object .. then a variety of commands depending on the edit
20:54.10dlibrlcad, I prefer cli, the GUI prim editor is confusing also
20:54.12brlcadgui: go to the edit menu
20:54.23brlcadprim selection
20:54.37MaloeranSURVICE is working on an immigration visa and they put June 1st as date to begin as an employee, there's no way I can get a driving license before then... Seems I'll do a whole lot of biking too :)
20:54.39brlcadenter primitive name, hit enter.. should show parameters that can be adjusted
20:55.09dlibrlcad, rror: Unable to do <keyboard solid edit start> from SOL EDIT state.
20:55.09dliExpecting VIEWING state
20:55.10brlcader, can't get a license in six months??
20:55.23brlcaddli: ah, you're already editing "something"
20:55.27MaloeranNot in Canada, takes 12 months to get a "real" license allowing one to drive without supervision
20:55.31brlcadtype: reject or accept
20:55.51brlcadahh, provisional timeframe
20:56.04MaloeranOr should I look for some obscure state that delivers driving licenses by mail within 5 days?
20:56.06dlibrlcad, must be the GUI editor, I couldn't figure out the prim editor :(
20:56.33brlcaddli: :) .. there should also be accept and reject menu items on the edit menu
20:57.00clock_If this is my last words, then it's cause by a salad dressing which is already 3 months beyond it's horizon
20:57.41brlcadnasty
20:57.43MaloeranIf you managed to overcome the natural vomiting reflex, it can't have been that bad
20:57.49clock_smells good, tastes good...
20:58.07clock_Now Saddam can come with his Anthrax - I am resistant to biological weapons
20:58.23clock_Actually - he can't. 1) he doesn't have biological weapons, 2) he suffered clinical death
20:58.24dtidrow_worklol
20:59.30dtidrow_workrope neckties generally lead to 2  :-)
20:59.37dlibrlcad, can I just remake the prim? it's unioned, sed just gives me a warning
21:03.37clock_lol viewsize eye_pt orientation - is the script going to ask me about my sexual orientation?
21:04.55dlibrlcad, yes, kill && in works better
21:08.10brlcaddli: yes you can
21:08.35brlcadthat's actually expected use, even if it's being referenced by another object
21:08.41MaloeranWhat is that animation you are trying to record, clock_?
21:08.47brlcadso you can swap out arbitrary geometry as needed
21:11.29MaloeranRecording an animation seems like a simple thing to do, I just dump the raw frames and mencode the resulting file to a more standard format
21:11.52``Erikmal: if you need, I can help ya learn to drive... provided I get my truck working, or you buy a car... you ain't learnin' on my m3 :D (my truck is manual, autos are a lot easier, but I personally don't call that driving). I THINK, for an adult, it's only like 3 or 6 mo, MAYBE less...
21:12.10``Erikbrlcad: new website? eh?
21:12.23brlcad``Erik: yah, what?
21:12.38``Erikclock: sourceforge, put it in 'feature requests' or 'bugtracker' and stfu. Also; if you want to claim one and do it... DO IT
21:12.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (3 files): remove the z_ prefix protection so that openNURBS can be linked against an installed system zlib library (there were no namespace collisions)
21:12.39MaloeranEheh, thanks Erik. I think I'm going to get one of these 2 places Smart car
21:12.49brlcadthat was something I started years ago when I first started
21:13.01``Eriklike... 8 yrs ago?
21:13.01``Erikhah
21:13.09brlcadnaht that long
21:13.41``Erikunfortunately, I have too much experience with webby type things... if it's drudge work, fuck off, but if ti's just a hurdle, mebbe I cna help :)
21:14.35brlcadwas seriously working on it about 4 years ago, and then had to shelve it to make the open sourcing happen
21:15.00brlcadit's been worked on a bit since, I even paid someone to work on it for a while, but still was usurped by other priorities
21:15.28``ErikI've grown irate enough to decide that I amke my own priorities.
21:15.48brlcad``Erik: I feel exactly the same -- had I needed the site 10 years ago, I would have spent the weeks and would have made something kick ass
21:16.10brlcadnow it's just boring tripe that takes way too long and involves too much fruitless hacking
21:17.04Maloeran``Erik, seems to be 6 months in Maryland for a license. Is a license from a state valid in another?
21:17.05brlcadgetting the site itself isn't a big deal, that's part why I really want a CMS up so that after whatever goonie is gone that set it up, the site can still be maintained and improved
21:17.10``Erikafter I build a perf testbed app to compare rayfarce and adrt
21:17.15brlcadMaloeran: yes
21:17.21MaloeranBecause there seems to be states with far less... restrictive requirements
21:17.30``Erikmal: usually, MIGHT require taking a test, but no probation period
21:18.24brlcadyeah, I knew a few friends that drove down to VA to get their license because the test was easier
21:18.24``Erikwhen I moved from washington to missouri, I had to take a written test, eye exam, and then I got a license... when I moved from 'missouri' (tn with a mo license), I just had to take an eye exam
21:18.24brlcadbut hey, the test really isn't hard -- if you're failing, there's probably a reason
21:18.47MaloeranEheh, nice. A car, I'm sure that drives just like a bicycle :)
21:18.58MaloeranI think I'll get something like : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Fortwo
21:19.05brlcadahh, the driving test should be the least of your worries ;)
21:19.07``Erikfor the most part, bicycles have to follow car rules when on the road
21:20.03brlcadthere are a couple tricks to the test (usually stop lights and proper parallel parking), but more get the written test wrong
21:20.23``Eriklook at the retard redneck idiots who drive... it can't be THAT difficult
21:20.33dtidrow_workheh
21:20.34``Erikand if you're feeling really REALLY inbred, just go to wv for the test
21:20.35brlcadwhich usually just means they don't understand the laws that they're supposed to be abiding by (or the test has poorly worded questions) *ahem*
21:20.36``Erik*duck* :D
21:20.52MaloeranTests are rather difficult in Quebec I heard... Some people go get a license in the states because they can't get one here
21:20.53brlcaddon't think there's is much different from MDs
21:21.08brlcader, theirs
21:21.26``Erikmost of it is undertsanding the signals being presented
21:21.37``Erikred light means stop, double yellow in the middle means no pass, etc
21:21.39MaloeranAh well, 6 months is good, I can manage biking for a month or two initially
21:22.17``Erikthe apt complex I lived in for my first 6mo in md is right across 95 from survice
21:22.41``Erikwhen we went to that restraunt in marks mazda, we passed it
21:23.11``Erikthe one that made me sick o>O
21:25.24``Erikhrm
21:25.28``Erikrooms or bedrooms/
21:25.36Maloeran5 rooms, 2 bedrooms
21:25.44``Erikthe one I had was 9 rooms, plus a deck
21:25.49MaloeranOh, okay :)
21:26.17``Erikand a wood burning fireplace, and covered parking, and ...
21:26.18``Erik:)
21:26.28dtidrow_work``Erik: where was this?
21:26.37``Erikum, belcamp
21:26.40``Erikbehind the hotel
21:26.45``Erik'aborwood' or something
21:26.59MaloeranRequirement for MD driving license : "Two documents establishing your Maryland residency"
21:27.00``Erikarborwood, even
21:27.34``Erikmal: power bill is sufficient for one, apt pmt is probably sufficient
21:28.24clock_clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ./moss.rt
21:28.24clock_./moss.rt: line 1: 24787 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim
21:28.30clock_wohoo :)
21:28.45``Erikooohhhh, you better fix that, clock
21:29.15Maloeran``Erik: I mean I can't just apply now and wait 6 months from this point
21:35.40clock_``Erik: I can send the files
21:37.03``Erikmal: I think the 6mo assumes education...
21:37.10``Erikclock: sf.net/projects/brlcad
21:38.03clock_Does this help?
21:38.15clock_#0  0x1c008158 in do_pixel (cpu=0, pat_num=-1, pixelnum=15018) at worker.c:491
21:38.15clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.15clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.15clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.15clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.18clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.20clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.23clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.25clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.28clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.30clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.33clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.35clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.38clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.40clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.43clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.46clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.48clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.51clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.53clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.56clock_<PROTECTED>
21:38.58clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.01clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.03clock_---Type <return> to continue, or q <return> to quit---
21:39.06clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.08clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.11clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.13clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.16clock_<PROTECTED>
21:39.55clock_I crashed at moss.pix.6
21:40.04clock_clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.5
21:40.04clock_-r--r--r--  1 clock  users  120000 Jan  5 22:37 moss.pix.5
21:40.04clock_clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.4
21:40.04clock_-r--r--r--  1 clock  users  120000 Jan  5 22:36 moss.pix.4
21:40.04clock_clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ls -la moss.pix.6
21:40.07clock_-rw-r--r--  1 clock  users  44400 Jan  5 22:37 moss.pix.6
21:40.28clock_The path is an almost-circular path around the object
21:42.46brlcadclock_: what version is that?
21:53.55brlcadnothing obvious in that particular stack, though the line doesn't match anything sensible in my version
21:54.10brlcads/stack/frame/
21:55.02clock_BRL-CAD Release 7.8.2
21:55.45brlcadokay, that's better
21:56.00clock_Should I reinstall to 7.8.4?
21:56.25brlcadno no
21:56.42brlcadit's acting like you had a partial render, given the code it's in
21:56.44clock_Solid modelling for strong defense haha :)
21:56.56clock_Should I delete the pixfiles and try again?
21:57.01brlcadyeah
21:57.40clock_clock@kestrel:~/creat/ronja/trunk/3d$ ./moss.rt -s 200
21:57.40clock_./moss.rt: line 1: 13777 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim
21:57.43clock_Anyway
21:57.58brlcadsame frame?
21:58.02clock_This time it created only moss.pix and moss.pix.1
21:58.14clock_-r--r--r--  1 clock  users  120000 Jan  5 22:57 moss.pix
21:58.14clock_-rw-r--r--  1 clock  users   44400 Jan  5 22:57 moss.pix.1
21:58.22clock_Seems to produce a runt file of the same size
21:58.38clock_Maybe when I run it many times I get a complete animation with ocassional bad pixels :)
21:59.16brlcadcurious, you have an smp machine?
21:59.21clock_no
21:59.29clock_Pentium M 1.5GHz notebook
22:00.18brlcaddelete the pix files again and add the -B flag to rt ... run it twice if it crashes and see if it crashes on the same image frame both times
22:00.51clock_I'm going to sleep now
22:00.53clock_good night
22:01.42brlcadhrm k
22:01.56brlcadif you can get a chance, I'd be interested in getting those files to test here
22:03.03clock_yes I can send them
22:03.42b0efnearly got a heart stop when I saw NURBS on the commit list;)
22:04.16brlcadheh
22:04.41b0efyou working on exposing the NURBS interface in brlcad?
22:07.47b0effor manipulating NURBS..
22:11.05brlcadb0ef: couple different efforts
22:11.32brlcadone being just to simply improve the geometry engine's nurbs support
22:11.47brlcadthe existing isn't exposed because it has "issues"
22:12.06brlcadso fixing/improving it is the first step
22:12.54brlcadthat also then in turn supports geometry conversion, which is what is driving this particular effort -- being able to seamlessly bring in models from pro/e, unigraphics, rhino, etc without doing a tessellation
22:13.25brlcadalso fundamentally needed by the step converter, which will likely be the second major effort
22:14.11b0efjust wondering; is the reverse also be part of that same effort? (mesh to NURBS)
22:14.18brlcadTHEN on to the modeling interface facilities (which could happen in parallel with the step converter work, but that depends on involvement from others)
22:14.54brlcadyikes, generate a smoothed nurbs surface off of some mesh?
22:15.12b0efwell, a NURBS surface doesn't have to be smooth
22:15.17b0efit can be anything;)
22:15.18brlcadtrue
22:15.22b0efthat's the beauty of it;)
22:15.23dtidrow_workhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/04/420mph_cavalier/ - wonder where he hid the JATO bottles  ;-)
22:15.24brlcadbut then what'd be the point?
22:16.00b0efwell, when using existing models; having the capability to turn them into parametric surfaces is very handy
22:16.01MaloeranTsk, the "beauty" of NURBS are a pain to raytrace efficiently :)
22:16.19Maloeranare->is
22:16.39b0efNURBS should be even more easy than a mesh, from my understanding
22:16.58b0efwell, yeah, efficiently is another thing, I guess
22:17.10brlcadb0ef: ah, you mean from a modelling perspective, for deformations, etc
22:17.21b0efbrlcad: yeah
22:18.04brlcadi'll keep it in mind, but that's kind of obscure .. we don't have direct mesh or nurbs editing now, so talking about converting from one or the other without the editing is a bit premature ;)
22:18.12b0efwell, the thing I'm after doesn't even require the non uniform and rational part, really
22:18.32b0efat first;)
22:19.05b0efof course, trimming and such in the future would require that
22:19.10brlcaddoing a straight up conversion would be a pretty simple tool for someone to write -- but you still wouldn't have the editing capacity yet ;)
22:19.41b0efI'm on my way to learn the mathematics, but some years are expected, so I can't help, yet;)
22:20.30brlcadyou're welcome to jump into the code as part of your learning ;)
22:20.37b0efanyways, I've found offset tool in inkscape
22:21.11b0efyeah, I am pursuing this, but I'm just taking linear algebra at the time
22:21.36b0ef..so I've made my surfaces in inkscape
22:22.08b0efthe problem now is stitching them together
22:22.51b0efwell, make them compatible
22:23.03b0efmake one surface out of them all
22:24.59b0efI also found out I need to look at projection
22:25.48b0efdamn, NURBS are sexy;)
22:32.36brlcadever used rhino?
22:32.39brlcader, rhino3d
22:32.52b0efno
22:33.01brlcadthey are pretty much the kings of nurbs modeling
22:33.12b0efyeah, know, but I don't use proprietary software
22:34.18b0ef;)
22:36.13brlcadb0ef: i only mentioned as a lead for perspective -- their nurbs modeling interface is pretty darn sexy, the standard most of the industry has used to live up to
22:36.38b0efbrlcad: yeah, believe me, I know about it;)
22:36.47brlcadsome pretty tricky math behind what they have working on the user interfae side
22:36.52b0efI've skimmed the surface of the earth for NURBS;)
22:37.27brlcadah, so you've *heard* of rhino.. just not used it
22:37.58b0efyeah, read on it
22:38.57b0efI used maya, before I went fanatic, though
22:39.33MaloeranAre you mostly a modeller, b0ef, or a programmer as well?
22:40.03b0efwell, I'm mostly a programmer, but have this childhood dream of recreating where I grew up
22:40.18b0efs/where/the place where/
22:40.24Maloeran:) Nice.
22:40.41b0ef;), yeah, been working on it for many many years
22:41.04b0efoff and on, of course
22:41.15brlcaddid you happen to grow up in the Cornell box?
22:41.28brlcador inside a tank
22:41.35brlcadif so, I might be able to heelp
22:42.04b0efhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B8nestoppen
22:42.29b0ef;)
22:43.41b0efindeed
22:44.04brlcadhmm, let's see .. there's a procedural vegetation generator in brl-cad, grass and cloud shaders, texture and wood shaders.. terrain .. that'll get you most of that picture ;)
22:44.24*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.172)
22:44.26b0efI have actually modeled the whole place
22:44.41b0efmany times, actually
22:44.43MaloeranWhere's the procedural vegetation generator? I thought Justin had used some weird Blender plugin
22:44.53brlcadMaloeran: he had, but there's one in there too
22:44.54MaloeranWhich was very broken for me, as all Blender plugins I tried
22:44.58MaloeranNeat
22:46.33b0efhere are the current svg surfaces:
22:46.39b0efhttp://www.esben-stien.name/scoutinkscape-0.0.9.svg
22:46.44b0efwell, nearly the current
22:47.18b0efhmm, only some parts of it show up in my browser, but inkscape should show it right
22:47.44b0efI have modeled it many times, but I need a parametric model of it
22:48.33MaloeranMay I ask why you need it made of NURBS specifically?
22:48.47brlcadMaloeran: it's nothing fancy -- it was a quick 1-week effort to procedurally create random trees and bushes quickly .. end result was pretty decent actually, but there are a ton of parameters to feed (branching rates, branch min/maxes, radii, tapering rates, etc)
22:48.57brlcadmaybe 2 weeks, i forget
22:49.36b0efMaloeran: well, it doesn't work to work with surfaces and curves in mesh modeling for something like this
22:49.42brlcadstill, it has some nice aspects like no self-intersections, branches grow towards light visibility, etc
22:50.29MaloeranSounds good, brlcad, I had pondered about writing something like that
22:50.57MaloeranWhere is it in the source?
22:51.00brlcadsrc/proc-db if you want to poke -- it's in there somewhere, vegitation iirc
22:51.08MaloeranThanks.
22:52.12b0efI have very little interest in shaders and such, really; I just want to model it and synthesise the textures
22:52.35b0efI'm looking into fluxus to synthesise textures
22:52.55MaloeranShaders? As long as it's raytraced, you should just need material properties and launch the process
22:53.48b0efyeah, but I don't want to use bitmaps
22:53.56b0efas in, static textures
22:54.24b0efwell, that's a long way from now, anyways
23:47.11``Erikboner-stoppin'?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070106

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070106

03:35.47MaloeranAhah, I ordered nice indian food so many times from some place that they send me bonus dishes
04:07.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: gcc 4 at least uses __GNU_C__, encourage ON_COMPILER_GNU to get defined
04:16.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: check for ON_COMPILER_GNU instead of _GNU_SOURCE so we don't need to add configure checks for finite()
04:23.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: initial automake build file template for openNURBS that correctly generates the libopenNURBS library
06:47.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
06:47.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: add openNURBS to the configuration and build. this adds
06:47.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: --enable-opennurbs-build as well as a variety of aliases, while properly
06:47.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: checking to see if openNURBS is already installed on the system or not so that
06:47.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: auto as default will work.
06:48.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/Makefile.am: check whether openNURBS has been enabled or not in order to compile/traverse
08:35.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: be less harsh about this being a debug build -- just say debug symbols are available and leave it at that
09:36.58*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:37.18clock_Do you need any more information apart from what I posted about the segfault to the bug tracking database?
10:13.51brlcadclock_: no, that was perfect -- thanks
10:13.53brlcadquite detailed
10:21.29clock_pixelnum=39999, pindex=119997
10:21.29clock_nonif
10:21.29clock_Allocating pixmap to 120000 bytes.
10:21.29clock_pixelnum=0, pindex=0
10:21.29clock_./moss.rt: line 1: 22600 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) /home/clock/brlcad-7.8.4/src/rt/rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim
10:21.36clock_Now I am puzzling myself why it's crashing
10:22.24clock_what timezone are you in?
10:36.07brlcadeastern u.s.
10:36.25brlcadyeah, it's late/early :)
11:07.10clock_eastern us that's GMT-how much?
11:07.42clock_An array of 120,000 bytes is allocated and not freed. Subsequent touch at the zeroth array element invokes a segfault
11:08.14clock_The first frame goes through seemingly completely.
11:08.36clock_Then the array is freed, allocated again to the same size, resulting in the same pointer, and a touch at the very zeroth pixel bombs the program
11:09.07clock_The same on Gentoo Linux gcc 3.3.6:
11:09.11clock_clock@server ~/crash $ ./moss.rt -s 200
11:09.11clock_*** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0809b430 ***
11:09.11clock_./moss.rt: line 1:  3383 Aborted                 /home/clock/brlcad-7.8.4/src/rt/rt -M $* -o moss.pix tetrax.g tetrax 2>>moss.log <moss.rtanim
11:14.49clock_Do you link BRL-CAD with libefence and try it?
11:51.20clock_I found the bug
11:51.28clock_free(pixmap) must be followed by pixmap=0.
11:51.51clock_It was accessing a freed buffer.
11:55.58clock_Now it creates all 53 frames :)
15:54.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/rt/do.c): (log message trimmed)
15:54.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: awesome.. not only did karel (aka clock3) identify and report on an animation
15:54.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: bug in rt with extensive detail, he went on to trace down the problem and
15:54.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: actually identified the bug. a variable that keeps track of frame progress was
15:54.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: not being reset to null after a frame was completed causing subsequent frames to
15:54.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: dereference an invalid pointer and segfault. apply the fix from sf bug 1629285
15:54.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: (persistent segfaults during animation - with a fix). this affected all
15:55.35clock_lol :)
16:33.02*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch)
16:34.22clock_brlcad: I was filling in a nice detailed bureaucratic patch entry to brl-cad.org but I wanted to verify with a Firefox that the C file I posted is accessible and it told me to select a viewer for a C file (!) so after about 30 seconds of crunching on /usr/local/bin I selected view. Subsequently the X hanged (because Firefox ran the view on the console).
16:34.30clock_So I lost my nicely detailed bureaucratical entry
16:34.54clock_So please add pix-y4v into BRL-CAD from http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/pix-y4m.c
16:35.02clock_I just wrote it and it's handy for making videos.
16:35.11clock_pix-y4v -> pix-y4m
16:52.39*** join/#brlcad _jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl)
17:03.19*** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl)
18:29.10*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=dan@pool-71-111-98-172.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
18:38.05*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.112.33)
19:18.57*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
19:46.19clock_brlcad: here?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070107

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070107

03:05.29*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
13:38.14*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-48.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:36.06clock_brlcad: you might be interested in my autogenerated BRL-CAD videos
14:41.10brlcadclock_: howdy
14:41.13brlcadi probably would
14:42.09clock_There was a problem with pixhalve that it is usable only with gamma=1
14:42.17clock_but gamma=1 degrades the pixel depth so it's unusable
14:42.31clock_gamma=2.2 is correct for rendering video, but without pixhalve the videos are jagged
14:42.57clock_So I wrote my own tool that supports arbitrary spatial resampling (up/down), and temporary downsampling given by an integer
14:43.05clock_and outputs into YUV4MPEG2 and PPM stream
14:43.43clock_I put it into my Ronja makefiles so now I get a 576x576x50Hz video with a sound loop background (7.2 sec) and an animated gif @10Hz which is temporary subsampled
14:43.44brlcadyour pix-y4m tool?
14:43.57clock_everything is calculated correctly, gamma correctly handled, calculations done in 16 bits
14:44.03clock_yes it's an upgrade of the pix-y4m
14:44.11clock_I took the resampler from Links :)
14:44.43clock_it generates Ogg Theora, DivX and WMV
14:44.47clock_and also bzipped YUV4MPEG2
14:44.51clock_and an animated GIF
14:45.05brlcadthat tool would make a nice addition, though there are a few hopefully minor changes/additions that would be needed and one other somewhat signficant change
14:45.35brlcadgenerates ogg/divx/wmv manually? or links to eternal libs?
14:45.53clock_from the YUV4MPEG2 it's generated by transcode and libtheora encoder example
14:46.04clock_the pix-y4m produces YUV4MPEG2
14:46.09brlcadah
14:46.24brlcadi was going to say.. damn
14:47.23clock_See http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ at the bottom - tetrax
14:48.30brlcadthat's freaking awesome :)
14:49.02clock_Now I just add names like "holder" or "tetrax" into one place of my makefiles and add couple of hours and I can get other videos :)
14:49.05clock_thanks
14:49.18brlcadat least on the ogg :)
14:49.34clock_that's not porno music that's CC-BY-SA Xcyril: Hip Hop
14:49.42brlcaduh huh ;)
14:49.55clock_can you play in a loop?
14:50.36clock_I could replace the loop with amiga-style chiptune from the Supertux game
14:50.46clock_it has a period of 7 seconds that's very close to 7.2
14:51.12brlcadyeah, I can loop it in quicktime
14:51.21clock_does it loop seamlessly?
14:51.48brlcadthe animation is seamless
14:52.03brlcadthe audio on theora is a little disjoint
14:52.54clock_and divx and wmv?
14:54.36brlcadahh, somehow i missed the audio on the divx .. it's identical
14:54.49clock_is there a notch in the audio?
14:55.15brlcadit's not so much a notch as just a nit-pick on the blend
14:55.30clock_maybe the driver has to flush the audio buffer or so
14:55.40clock_I calculated the length in audacity exactly to 7.2 sec
14:55.48clock_When I blend the audios in audacity, it's perfectly seamless
14:55.55clock_so it must be the encoding process or your player
14:56.12clock_my player (mplayer, vlc) produces absolutely horrible stutter at the seam
14:56.17brlcador different expectations
14:56.21brlcadit does loop nicely
14:58.03brlcadbut going from the fluttering at the end to the beat at the start just isn't what I'd personally call "seamless"
14:58.37brlcadit could very well be what you intended -- you'd have to hear it for yourself :)
14:59.17clock_it's like this in the original music
14:59.51clock_xcyril: hip hop you can download for free on jamendo
15:02.56clock_Now Ronja compiles several hours :)
15:03.16clock_But still I consider the raytracer to be fast - when it calculates all the shadows etc.
15:04.43brlcadhow many fps are you rendering?
15:04.50brlcadfor the animation
15:05.18clock_0.3fps
15:05.23clock_1152x1152
15:05.32clock_depends on scene comoplexity too
16:09.25clock_Why does material=0 cause ridiculously high mass like 10^289kg?
16:11.05brlcadprobably getting a division by zero because there's no density set
16:11.18brlcads/zero/near zero/ of course
16:11.48brlcador there's an indexing issue there -- supposed to index from 1 up
16:13.03clock_Maybe it's a bug?
16:13.38clock_If I set the density in the density file to 0 (material=256, density 0) then it calculates correctly
16:13.45clock_Can I put a line with 0 into the density file?
16:14.10brlcadi'm frankly not sure that's been tried
16:14.16brlcadagain, not the design :)
16:14.21brlcadbut go ahead and try ..
16:14.40clock_Why is it called "GIFT_MATERIAL"?
16:14.58brlcadthat's ancient heritage
16:15.34brlcadgift material codes are what the DoD uses/used to define material properties
16:15.47clock_So it's retro
16:16.38brlcadGIFT was the "Geometric Information from Targets"
16:16.57brlcadbasically the precursor to 'rt' in a way
16:17.42brlcadevolved from the magi ray-tracer iirc
16:19.05brlcadahh, here we go..
16:19.20brlcada 1987 paper on the topic:  http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/86scotland/joined.html
16:21.00clock_Yes it calculates correctly even with index 0
16:24.08brlcadgood to know
16:37.37clock_whast is REGION_CODE? Can it be all 1000 for all parts?
16:38.06clock_no sorry REGION_ID
16:47.43clock_Now the 0'th index doesn't work
16:49.04clock_printf("%s",NULL) isn't something a program should do:
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16:49.14clock_11142320660329766197282404428822493103453219925682332085413596211029096794472640917136021704128167472701500262605140476594536144399399667268753079654421883418581083831198838033283297124246427098575741106021024097346550934083463016754241736963503981200105259980151084013000927862654594585192530136845516800.000    0 100 (null)           0.0000 /chimney/chimney.r                  
16:53.40clock_When it worked it was caused by chance
16:54.08``Erikhum
17:20.36clock_the rtweight produces random numbers even when I use 256 for the part that doesn't count
17:21.39clock_It produces random numbers even when I make the numbers in the .density file continuous
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17:21.55clock_5471996131684330201384988641922329570258652293616177422983661606387605959185699572608651675799621548161907052971545040885199431982865401592260667493913974039383458518276186681799389570084070369563361732356774012177516296118005292214198201381758086484754586844743669147989428832905491120128.000    6 100 Doesnt_count     0.0000 /chimney/chimney.r                  
17:22.00clock_<PROTECTED>
17:22.03clock_Sometimes it happens, sometimes not
17:22.05clock_run from run
17:23.08clock_The problem seems to be the 0 weight of the material
17:23.14clock_when I replace with 0.00000001 it's OK
17:24.02clock_Where is the source for rtweight?
17:24.32clock_There is only rtweight_vers.c and it's almost empty
17:27.04clock_if (density<0) something else if (density>0) something else
17:27.55clock_OK let's try to recompile and make some spaghetti
17:34.04brlcadsource is in src/rt/view_weight.c
17:34.10clock_now it seems to work
17:34.33brlcada density of 0 would be invalid
17:34.43clock_Invalid is <0
17:34.53clock_<0 prints a message "no density specified"
17:34.56clock_>0 calculates the density
17:34.59clock_0 throws dice
17:35.06clock_And I need density of 0.
17:35.45brlcada density of zero would be a pure vaccuum in space
17:36.05brlcadeven air has a non-zero density
17:36.08clock_or an object whose weight is not to be taken into account
17:36.52clock_Do you want to keep the current throw-dice-at-zero behaviour?
17:37.05brlcadwell, of course not -- that's just bad behavior
17:37.22clock_At least you are not like the Linux kernel or Ekiga developers
17:37.29clock_who are always right no matter how crappy it behaves
17:38.22brlcadnah, i'm not defending it -- from a design standpoint it is behaving as garbage-in->garbage-out .. but it should still behave sensibly
17:38.31clock_that's also why I am not wasting time with projects like that and poke at BRL-CAD instead
17:38.58brlcadand whether it should support zero is another question -- i can see a use there, so good to mod to support it
17:38.59clock_Negative is good too
17:39.05clock_if you model a body submerged in water
17:39.34brlcadhmm, interesting
17:39.54clock_just subtract the density of water
17:40.03brlcadthough the density of the object itself wouldn't be changed
17:40.17brlcadthat might be better managed at a higher level where you can do the physics better
17:40.27clock_this does the physics perfectly
17:40.50brlcadwhich is probably where you could also deal with objects whose weight you didn't want to take into account too
17:41.12clock_That would make the makefiles too complicated
17:41.19brlcadit just does a simple density/mass calculation for you ;)
17:41.23clock_and now it works even when the zero entry is at index 0 ;-)
17:42.15clock_Are you going to include pix-y4m?
17:42.42brlcadi'd like to, but there are a few things that would need to be addressed
17:43.20clock_And you would like me to re-program it?
17:43.57brlcadno no, the code does what it does and is useful
17:44.08brlcadthe things to be addressed are more inclusion issues
17:44.23brlcaddocs, integration
17:44.48brlcadaside from a manpage would be nice, presently contributions request assignment of copyright to be included
17:46.04brlcadyou can still retain authorship, and get full credit for the work -- but for licensing purposes, there's only one copyright for the non-public-domain portions
17:47.08brlcadthis makes it easier to relicense the code as needed down the road, since you don't have to hunt down every contributor (and understandably, some don't like that, but presently it's the project position)
17:48.34brlcadit's particularly relevant for what you wrote even as there are design plans to turn the image processing tools into a "universal converter" library
17:49.26brlcadin support of that kind of design change, all of BRL-CAD's GPL code (which is presently all the front-end applications) is going to change to LGPL
17:53.27clock_In Czech Republic there is nothing like copyright therefore it's not possible to assign it
17:53.39clock_There is only authorship and that's given by definition and cannot be changed
17:53.45clock_How it's in Switzerland I don't know
17:54.47brlcadif there's nothing like copyright, then why does the code have a copyright clause?
17:55.16brlcadmost licenses are based in copyright law, especially GPL/LGPL/BSD, etc -- even internationally
17:55.45clock_I write (c) <year> <author> everywhere - this is the copyright clause?
17:56.01brlcadalso, this isn't anything new -- there are lots of major international projects that require copyright assignment
17:56.08brlcadyes, that is exactly what the (c) means
17:56.23clock_I didn't know this means anything special legally
17:56.38clock_In CZ it definitely doesn't mean anything it's just a text string without any legal meaning
17:56.58clock_I saw it being used so I did the same by example ;-)
17:57.28brlcadI'm sure cz actually does have some form of copyright protection
17:57.36clock_It has author right
17:57.47clock_if you create something, a right is implicitly created
17:58.29brlcadsame holds in most places
17:58.42clock_but that right is not transferrable
17:58.47clock_you can only give licence to use
17:59.10clock_and that right is created by the act of creation itself you don't have to write any (c) anywhere
17:59.26clock_if you write (c), it's like if you didn't write anything - you have the right regardless
18:00.14brlcadit's the same in most places, even in the U.S., you don't *have* to write (c) -- it's automatic -- but the legal basis is weaker if you actually have to defend something in a court
18:01.08brlcadregardless, i'm not going to believe that czech doesn't have a means to allow copyright assignment, though, without a solid reference
18:01.12brlcadnot that it's relevant for this
18:01.40clock_all you can do is give a non-exclusive licence or an exclusive licence
18:01.45clock_including a licence to sublicence
18:02.03clock_but you cannot get rid of that copyright (in Czech terms it's called Author's right)
18:02.18brlcadagain, i doubt that, highly doubt that as business interactions generally require authorship transfer
18:02.37brlcadunless you have a link to share that shows otherwise
18:03.26clock_My GPL code is taken from Links and it's tainted by Mikulas's code
18:03.33clock_the overalloc() is written by Mikulas
18:03.40clock_so now it already involves two people ;-)
18:03.59brlcadi'm educating myself, hold on ;)
18:04.00clock_I cannot change to LGPL by myself
18:06.24brlcadlooks like Article 26(1) of cz copyright will let you grant all rights use with unrestricted scope -- that would be sufficient for a purpose like this
18:06.38brlcadthough like you said, you've already got joint authorship going so you can't change it regardless
18:06.53clock_I wouldn't grant anyway
18:07.12brlcadwhich means it really can't be included then unfortunately, unless you changed to LGPL or BSD
18:07.13clock_unrestricted scope? That's ridiculous
18:07.34clock_what if I change to BSD but don't grant unrestricted scope?
18:07.44clock_BSD still has some (minimal) restrictions
18:07.55brlcadthe domain of the scope is still just that contribution ;)
18:08.07brlcadnot sure what you think it means
18:08.19clock_but then you could take my contribution and sell it to Microsoft ;-)
18:08.58clock_Or you can include one program under GPL ;-)
18:09.03brlcadtechnically, that's what copyright assignment means too -- changes are provided in good faith that the copyright holder wouldn't ever do that
18:09.18clock_Or make a public version that will include the GPL program and your contractors will get only the LGPL
18:09.45brlcadcontractors?
18:13.12clock_"this makes it easier to relicence the code"
18:13.40brlcadhere's a rather public project that you might be familiar with that has a decent write-up on the issues
18:13.44brlcadhttp://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/copyright/index.xml
18:14.02brlcadpretty much the same concerns and motivations here
18:14.06clock_Why do you want me to licence under LGPL?
18:14.38brlcadwell in particular because the code would be likely made part of a LGPL library if it is included
18:15.03clock_Is the whole BRL-CAD going to switch to LGPL?
18:15.12brlcadvery soon
18:15.20brlcadthe portions that are GPL, that is
18:15.34clock_what licence are the other portions?
18:16.14brlcadthe build infrastructure, benchmark suite, various scripts, and a few contributed tools are BSD licensed
18:16.39clock_Why are you switching to LGPL?
18:16.43brlcadthe documentation that isn't already public domain is dual-licensed GPL/GFDL (you choose)
18:17.20brlcadbrl-cad's libraries have to remain lgpl or bsd because of the user base
18:17.31clock_What does it mean because of the user base?
18:18.06clock_I hate this free software / open source politics ;-)
18:18.09brlcadthere are government, educational, and commercial entities that use brl-cad for various purposes, linking to brl-cad's geometry engine and ray-trace library for functionality
18:18.25brlcadin codes that cannot be made open source, but are distributed
18:18.30clock_Do they use them in proprietary software?
18:18.49brlcadsome do, yes
18:19.23brlcadsome are classified codes with security implications (and not just U.S., several nations)
18:19.38clock_Why should I allow proprietary software to link my code?
18:19.45brlcadyou don't have to
18:19.48brlcadthat's your right
18:19.54clock_with LGPL or BSD you allow
18:20.03brlcadbut to be included in brl-cad, it would be required
18:20.54brlcadlgpl and bsd let the closed codes utilize the functionality they require, and provide a mutual benefit by promoting the software, giving credit of use, being part of the user base, etc
18:21.36brlcadwe don't exist to push a political software agenda, my main concern is the open flexibility and usability of brl-cad by anyone
18:22.24clock_classified codes and security implications
18:22.41clock_I can't see their codes, they won't be able to use my software ;-)
18:23.13brlcadas you currently have it licensed, for a distributed code, that's true
18:23.27brlcadif it's not distributed, even gpl doesn't prevent them from using your code, though
18:23.30clock_why do they need to classify anything? Good nations don't have anything to hide ;-)
18:23.56clock_that's right
18:24.31clock_but what they cannot do is that Army Subcontractor X makes an add-on nuke-calculating package and then sells it to US Army under classified code blah blah
18:25.14clock_and then US Army calculates up better nukes and will make grins at other nations who can't calculate their nukes so well
18:25.17brlcadjust about every subcontractor is explicitly required to assign copyright to the government, as well as all rights
18:25.32clock_When they are going to calculate nukes with my code, then at least everyone will have the same opportunity
18:26.01brlcadactually, wouldn't they just be making pretty animations of the nukes with your code?
18:26.22clock_whatever, but it will help them save time ;-)
18:26.31clock_today the nukes aren't relevant anymore
18:26.39clock_they have been technically overcome by terrorism
18:27.06brlcadthere are biothreats considerably more dangerous than nukes
18:27.59clock_like old salad sauces?
18:28.18brlcadbut I digress .. so back to the point, if you do happen to relicense the code to bsd or lgpl, it can be reconsidered .. but it sounds like a non-starter on both sides for now
18:28.44clock_I don't really like the idea of relicensing the code
18:28.53brlcadi understand, that's fine
18:30.18clock_Is it legally possible to distribute almost all files in BRL-CAD with LGPL and one source code under GPL, while the source code and the rest don't mutually link?
18:30.19brlcadcould add it as one of our "contributed" codes, but then you'd need a build file, documentation, a pressing demand, and other tidbits to be included
18:30.33clock_what is the pressing demand?
18:31.09brlcadI looked into that a while back, from my reading -- you can't incorporate gpl code into a lgpl library without it becoming a gpl library
18:31.24clock_but my code is standalone it doesn't require any library
18:31.51brlcadwhat I said earlier
18:32.05clock_do you want to put my code into a library?
18:32.29brlcadthere's going to be a "universal" image converter library made out of ost of the image processing tools
18:32.43brlcadso you can have an api to go to/from any image format to another
18:32.59brlcadsimilar to magick's convert tool, though we could also expand into geometry too
18:33.29brlcadaside from just having it as a generic conversion library in itself for reading/writing dozens of formats
18:33.46brlcadso yeah -- if it was included, I'd want to make it part of that library
18:34.00clock_but that's in long-termm isn't it?
18:34.01brlcadwouldn't make sense to leave it out (other than the legal problem)
18:34.13clock_and my code is not much universal
18:34.53brlcadyour code doesn't have to be, that's the beauty of the library
18:36.08brlcade.g. there's a png-pix and a pix-y4m but obviously not a png-y4m, the library would give you that functionality by tying them together for you
18:37.49brlcadanyways, going to LGPL is only one aspect.. like http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/copyright/index.xml mentions, there are other legal issues like defending the code in court against litigation, to be able to protect against misuse and go after violations of the copyright
18:38.10clock_<PROTECTED>
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18:38.26clock_Can you find it in the viewweight.c this way or do I have to make a patch?
18:38.37clock_the >= was originally only > and that was the problem
18:40.31clock_Hehe with LGPL my code could be incorporated into a proprietary package and that sold to North Korea :)
18:41.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewweight.c: allow an index of 0, even if the density is going to be 0 so that objects can be treated as having no mass (thx clock)
18:42.02clock_good :)
18:42.21brlcadagain, that's pushing a political agenda that you have there -- I couldn't care less about the political aspect :)
18:43.08brlcadi don't pick licenses for the politics, i pick them on it helping collaboration and allowing flexible use (by anyone for any reason)
18:43.11clock_I publish my code not because I don't value my work, but because I agree with the idea of GPL.
18:43.45brlcadthat's what it's there for, more power to you
18:43.49clock_Otherwise I could give them into public domain easily.
18:43.51brlcadyou don't happen to run debian do you?
18:43.56clock_no
18:43.59clock_OpenBSD ;-)
18:44.25brlcadsurprising
18:44.28brlcadmost BSD users aren't too fond of the GNU philosophy
18:44.31clock_do I talk like a debianist?
18:44.36brlcadyep
18:44.50brlcaddebian is a gnu propaganda machine :)
18:44.55clock_lol :)
18:45.01clock_According to my experience, debian is crap
18:45.06brlcadheh
18:45.07clock_I didn't get farther than the boot CD :)
18:45.37brlcadubuntu gets much of the same done without the bull-headed political motivations that debian has
18:45.39clock_I used to use linux from scratch, gentoo, and recently (like 1 year?) OpenBSD
18:45.41brlcadand is considerably easier to use
18:46.05clock_I don't care about the politics I care more about whether the system works
18:46.17clock_Linux has half of the manpages missing, too hard to use for me
18:46.24clock_10 years of Linux was enough ;-)
18:46.33brlcadyou care at least a little bit about the politics it sounds
18:46.36brlcadat least for your own code
18:46.57clock_yes
18:46.58brlcadif you have a problem with proprietary software, you care about the politics
18:47.07clock_I couldn't care less that I am using something that's BSD ;-)
18:47.37clock_I don't like the idea of proprietary software, because people sacrifice efficiency of human work for monetary gain
18:47.41brlcadspent a LONG time weighing the impact of just making all of BRL-CAD licensed under BSD
18:48.48brlcadanyways, I gotta run off to lift
18:48.53brlcadcya
18:49.01clock_What I can do is take BRL-CAD, add it to pix-y4m and then publish as Twibright Labs Enhanced BRL-CAD, am I right?
18:49.22clock_cu
18:51.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Karel points out a mod that allows material ID of zero in rtweight, fixes index bug.
18:51.46brlcadprobably not, as there's a trademark on the name BRL-CAD -- but you could make the Twibright Labs CAD system (if it were BSD)
18:52.36brlcadit just wouldn't get you much -- about as fruitful as if you forked OpenBSD
18:53.14brlcadthe project generally has to be doing something really wrong (e.g. XFree86 -> X11) to get a major code to fork successfully and rebrand with a maintained user group
18:56.12brlcadanyways, really off now -- cheers
19:26.18clock_What does the LOS mean?
19:26.24clock_When it's 0 and not 100 it doesn't work :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070108

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070108

00:55.16Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1276819.stm  -  Ahah, 110kUSD for a McDonald's hot pickle
00:55.54MaloeranThis is so amusingly wrong, I feel like studying american laws just to understand how such a thing is possible
01:56.37brlcadthey didn't win the case
01:56.47brlcadthey just settled to make it go away
01:57.12brlcadyou can file a lawsuit for just about anything against anybody pretty easily, some people make a living out of it
02:18.51dtidrowand yes, it's pretty disgusting that U.S. civil law allows such things to happen
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070109

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070109

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21:04.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (.cvsignore src/librt/g_on_nurb.c include/on_nurb.h): Begin work on openNURBS-based primitive. OpenNURBS contains no intersection routines, so will be working off the Abert et al paper "Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces" to implement intersection.
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21:12.02dlihowto rotate the view along the z-axis (of the real coordinates, not the view)
21:15.01dlihow to move a part (translation)?
21:31.54dliI can use ae to rotate the view, still don't know how to move a part
21:54.42IriX64ciao
23:01.18dlianother question, how do I print out the 3D rendering?
23:06.56tofumged doesn't directly deal with printing
23:07.13tofuyou basically will need to convert to another format, such as png
23:07.28tofuthere are command-line tools that facilitate this (e.g. pix-png)
23:09.11dlitofu, thanks
23:09.27dlitofu, how do I move a part ( .r .c ) ?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070110

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070110

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03:21.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/on_nurb.h src/librt/g_on_nurb.c): standard header and footer, M-x indent region
03:21.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/Makefile.am src/librt/Makefile.am): add new opennurbs primitive files to the source distribution tarball.
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08:40.19clock_I am trying to reverseengineer what the "rot" command does
08:41.15clock_I already found out the three numbers refer to rotations around axes in a way that positive number rotates the object anticlockwise if you sit where the axes cross and look at the axis label letter.
08:41.54clock_However I thought it's rotating around the axes themselves but then I tried it on an arb6 and it didn't rotate around the X axis, but around the side of the arb6.
08:42.13clock_The arb6 was defined that the X axis was going through the middle, not throught the side.
08:42.28clock_So it cannot rotate neither around the combination axis nor around the object axis
08:42.35clock_What is it actually rotating around?
08:43.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: add support for emacs lisp files
08:45.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add support for emacs lisp files
08:50.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh:
08:50.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: change the indent script so that it requires a path/to/directory argument for
08:50.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: some hierarchy for the script to update. additionally, add support for a
08:50.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: plethora of other file types including c++, objc, shell script, and emacs lisp
08:50.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: files.
08:51.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/ (tcl.c tpkg.c): M-x indent-region
08:53.23tofuclock_: by deafult, through the local coordinate axis defined for that primitive, which for the arbs is one of the corners (turn on the model axis on the menu and it might become more clear)
08:54.09tofueven if you model with the global axis going through the middle, the local coordinate system for that primitive is unchanged (it can't change by definition)
08:54.36tofuyou can also specify which coordinate system you mean via the settings menu (Rotate about option)
08:55.57clock_What should I specify to rotate about the lines in the "Coordinates - model" cross?
08:56.21clock_How can I make the model coordinates cross stay permanently even if I quit the program and restart again?
08:57.58clock_I would like to change the help entry for "rot" to reflect all this information. If I do it will you accept the patch? I found out the help entry is identically in 2 files - src/tcscripts/helplib.tcl and src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl. Is one of them automatically generated from the other or do I have to change it in both?
08:57.58tofuthey are permanent except for one (the view) -- there are just at least three different cooridinates that you might be rotating about (and there are different command-line commands for those too)
08:58.11clock_They are not permanent - when I turn the coordinates on and then quit the program and restart, they are gone and I have to turn them on again.
08:58.22tofuoh, you mean their display
08:58.34clock_Yes the cross with 3 crossing lines and letters X Y Z
08:58.35tofubecause they're still *there* .. just not shown
08:58.46clock_I want them to be shown permanently
08:58.58clock_Is there something like "Save settings"?
08:59.26tofuyeah, you can enable that.. turn them on and then (assuming you haven't already customized your .mgedrc) you can select "Update/create .mgedrc" on the file menu and it should save that setting
08:59.27clock_Because I need them to keep sense from the model and I often quit the program and edit again
08:59.36clock_aha cool :)
08:59.52clock_And then they will be visible for every .g file I edit?
08:59.57tofushould be
09:00.01clock_cool
09:00.21tofuif not for whatever reason, it should just be a line to add to your .mgedrc
09:01.03tofuyou may want to back up your .mgedrc if you have edited it manually before hitting the update
09:01.22tofuas it can blow away changes if they're in the wrong part of the file
09:02.44clock_But I realized these axes can be turned separately for each of the four panes in the multipane
09:02.53clock_But in the .mgedrc I found only one place
09:02.59clock_How does that correspond together?
09:03.14tofuah, you use multipane
09:03.36tofuthere are different variables for the other panes.. which I can't remember off the top of my head
09:03.42clock_And I want these axes to be in all 4 they are useful
09:03.54clock_So I set them in all panes and then save
09:03.55tofubut you will probably have to add the other three by hand, or let it auto-enable all four
09:04.32clock_I also asked a question about helplib.tcl etc.
09:04.37tofui don't think bob ever added multipane storage
09:04.37clock_Do you know the answer?
09:04.55clock_What is auto-enable?
09:04.58tofuyeah, the patch would be accepted, of course -- assuming it actually makes sense :)
09:05.03tofuas for the two files
09:05.17clock_What happens if I patch the two files differently?
09:05.28tofuthey are identical, and have to both be updated separately unfortunately (one is used by mged, the other by archer)
09:05.37clock_What is archer?
09:06.01tofusomething you haven't seen yet and probably need not worry about yet either :)
09:06.13clock_some old predecessor of mged?
09:06.22tofubut it's basically a rewrite of mged in progress with an improved user interface
09:06.30tofupostdecessor
09:07.16tofuit was only integrated a few iterations ago, and not even fully intergrated into the build yet (so there's only a Windows binary at the moment, and a few linux ones somewhere)
09:07.31clock_Is it better than mged?
09:07.50tofudepends what your considerations are
09:08.17tofuit's not done in the least, so as a production tool to replace mged -- no, it's not "better"
09:08.22clock_I think I need to learn more about the LGPL
09:08.28tofubut it is in a "better" direction, and better designed
09:08.33clock_To really be sure I don't want to release my code under LGPL
09:08.43clock_Maybe I will realize it's not so bad :)
09:11.05tofuif you're familiar with creative commons, LGPL is sort of like the attribution, share-alike CC license version
09:11.21clock_So it's like BSD?
09:11.49tofusomewhere between bsd and gpl
09:11.49clock_The obvious advantage of LGPL and BSD is that you don't run into the following problem
09:12.05clock_I wanted to make a video and use a soundtrack, but the video used GFDL image and the soundtrack was CC-BY-SA
09:12.19clock_The licences mean the same but are mutually incompatible so it would be illegal to do it
09:12.28clock_I had to write to the author and wait for the answer
09:12.40tofuthe difference basically being that if you make a mod to the lgpl code that you used, and publish software that uses that lgpl code, then you have to make those modifications available (bsd does not require this)
09:13.23clock_So that if I link with a LGPL library and sell a proprietary program, I don't have to disclose. But if I mod that library I have to disclose, right?
09:13.41tofuonly any mods to the library
09:13.48tofuyour code is your code, their code is theirs
09:14.18tofuit's not "infectious", but does require disclosure of changes made
09:14.44clock_And what do you need?
09:14.53tofuwhat do you mean?
09:14.58clock_Can I keep the *.c file on the web GPL and just tell you you can use it under LGPL?
09:15.06clock_Or do you need me to publish that file under LGPL?
09:16.47tofuhmm, it would have to be lgpl'd proper.  I cannot update/modify exiting clauses that aren't under my domain
09:17.09clock_So if I release that under LGPL it's OK?
09:17.56tofutechnically, not necessarily
09:18.11tofuthere's still the issue of copyright, which is separate from the license
09:18.45tofuand as you mentioned, that can't be changed without you "giving away all rights", which you don't like (and I agree/understand why you wouldn't)
09:19.09clock_I can't give away these rights
09:20.20clock_I don't understand why you cannot take LGPL
09:20.44clock_If you are a LGPL project you can completely legally collect any LGPL pieces of code around the Web and just insert them into your work
09:20.48tofudid you read the copyright assignment link I posted?  that went into considerable detail
09:21.01clock_No
09:22.02tofuthere are two main camps on this issue -- those that require assignment (which we are in) and those that do not
09:22.28tofuyou might be surprised to find out, but there are vast numbers in both camps, and benefits and negatives to both positions
09:22.33clock_And FSF also requires assignment, right?
09:22.46tofufor many of their projects, yes
09:23.00tofucan't speak for all of them, though -- they have hundreds
09:23.09clock_What you can legally do is
09:23.22tofubut like, the gnu build tools -- autoconf, automake, etc .. those all require assignment for example
09:23.23clock_a) Write an empty file (c) Sean Morrison
09:23.30clock_b) release that under LGPL
09:24.06clock_c) put my changes in. Now it's your work but derived from mine. The derivation was legal because it was according to my licence terms
09:24.15clock_d) assign the copyright of your work to BRL-CAD
09:24.53tofuheh
09:25.11tofuif people could do that, gpl would have no weight behind it
09:25.34clock_If an empty file doesn't stand up to 'statistical uniqueness' you just do it with an existing piece of library code because you said you are going to integrate it into a library anyway
09:25.47clock_They can
09:25.57tofuyou chose gpl, and it's rather explicit -- even my derivative would be required to be GPL
09:26.05clock_The fact that a work is a derived one doesn't in any way diminish the fact it's your work
09:26.34clock_Actually you cannot
09:26.48clock_because my (c) notice has to be kept there according to LGPL
09:27.39tofuwell, you said make a derivative, so i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt -- say I did make a true derivative and didn't just copy/paste
09:27.57tofui'm still obligated to gpl the derivative, that's a requirement in gpl
09:28.08clock_Or you can look how my program works, get the idea and just write it again
09:28.27clock_That's a perfecrly legal way how to get the same functionality with ARL copyright
09:28.59clock_change couple of variable names and function names, shuffle some comments and I won't sue you over infringement :)
09:29.00tofuthat's a derivative .. I'd have to do the whole "clean room" thing where someone relays ideas from another room approach, and it's frankly not worth it for all but the most difficult drivers :)
09:30.00clock_Why? What happens if you just rename couple of things in my code and say you wrote it once more?
09:31.35clock_this is like coming to a homeless who needs food and saying "take some of my food" and he says "no that's illegal you have to stick it into my mouth" and I say "no your mouth smells I am not going to approach my fingers to your mouth"
09:32.06clock_So I start finding a possible loophole in the law how he can legally steal it from my shopping bag when I want to give it to him :)
09:32.49tofuif you *really* want to have it included, you're going to have to change it on your end, not on mine -- maybe e-mail that legal team that helps with issues, they might have an idea given your country's assignment issues -- it could very well be the case that you are allowed to assign copyright under U.S. law, just not under your own
09:33.54clock_"nforcement of copyright is generally not possible for distributors" - isn't a copyright violation a criminal offence?
09:34.00tofuactually, it's more like telling the homeless guy that there's free food and a warm bed in upstate new york.. but he lives downtown .. doesn't really help
09:34.17clock_It's like saying "if you murder someone, only the murdered can sue you - the state attorney is completely helpless against the criminal"
09:34.41clock_In CZ it's a criminal offence.
09:35.09tofuin most countries it is
09:35.16tofubut copyright is also per country
09:35.40tofusome countries require you to register to obtain copyright, some require fees, some don't etc
09:36.07clock_But if I assign my copyright to you then you start owning the code and you can sue me over it's distribution
09:36.15tofuUS government, for example, cannot *claim* copyright on original works in the US, but they can in every other country on the planet
09:37.45clock_It's like giving a homeless a shelter and he sais "sorry I have concerns that someone could say I am burlarizing your house - I need you to assign the ownership of your house to me - but I promise I will allow you to still live there."
09:38.57clock_If the courts worked according to the law, it would be a different issue. But sometimes it works that they compare who has more money, or a DoS attack is mounted against a weak victim using the lawyer fees.
09:38.59tofunot a bad analogy actually
09:39.34clock_ARL comes to the judge, lobbies and bye bye
09:39.46tofuso leave it as is, you don't want to go that route, and frankly neither do I
09:39.49clock_And I should assign copyright to face that risk?
09:40.15tofuheh, "ARL comes to the judge"
09:40.37tofuyou can't just sue the gov't, at least the u.s. govt -- they have to let you sue them
09:40.56clock_I can't sue them, but they can sue me - great :)
09:41.23tofuseriously though
09:41.31clock_And when I say fuck off they kindnap me and bring to the guantanamo - I can't hold myself from assigning copyright to the US govmt
09:41.34tofumore trouble than it's worth
09:41.40tofuyou don't even have a manpage written ;)
09:42.14clock_I was expecting some problems so I delayed writing a manpage after I see my code will be really useful
09:42.55tofuwe're not even to the point of determining whether it's technically beneficial to add the tool as is -- it'd need work to polish it up for production use
09:43.23tofustuck talking about copyrights
09:43.28clock_yes but now I see there is a bureaucratical problem that prevents me from contributing any code
09:43.44clock_Except patches, obviously
09:44.20clock_Better than writing a lot of code and taking care about proper manpage, commandline flags and then realizing I don't want to assign copyright to the US government
09:44.55clock_Like there have been cases when a cryptography expert was put into jail just because he had a lecture - completely ridiculous things are going on in the US
09:45.05clock_I don't want to entangle into this stuff unless absolutely necessayr
09:46.22clock_Or a programmer who came to US by plane was put into jail because he was Arabian
09:47.01tofuunless you either 1) enter an agreement that requires assignment upon creation (that seems to be what gentoo is doing, so you technically never hold copyright, hence never transfer), or 2) release it public domain or 3) stick to patches perhaps
09:47.04clock_They just determined he was a terrorist - and then it came out he isn't. The only way to be completely safe seems to not having anythhing common with the States.
09:47.25clock_Why should I give away even a tiny bit from my safety when I get nothing? I am just giving in this case
09:48.03tofuwhy are you asking me?
09:48.10tofui'm not asking you
09:48.22clock_I understand BRL-CAD is giving me a huge benefit, but I am going to get that benefit even if I don't assign the copyright :)
09:49.27tofuyes, yet the same mentality you're taking is the same fearmongering that I had to fight for almost 5 years just to get it released as open source
09:49.48clock_I am not fearmongering. The US are fearmongering/
09:50.26tofuseriously, clock, I'm not going to get into politics -- it's a pointless discussion
09:50.53clock_Sorry I just wanted to explain that I am not acting irrationally
09:51.12clock_Deciding to assign to say FSF would be probably easier for me
09:51.15tofui don't think politics should come into play with the licensing, nor should it be a factor in the consideration of most computing issues, especially software
09:51.35clock_I didn't want you to have a feeling that I am doing it because I am mean or I want to impose arbitrary restrictions on you
09:51.43tofuthere's plenty to be done that menefits the software by itself, for the sake of the software and the industry without getting into the politics
09:51.48clock_Like write a little piece of code and then having fun dictating you the licence
09:52.16clock_I can update the help files
09:52.25clock_DO you mind if the help entry will be say 10 lines of text?
09:52.33clock_Is there some requirement it has to be short?
09:52.45tofuI don't care if you're acting rationally or not -- you are making a decision motivated by your own personal politics and that's your decision, your right, your perrogative -- so be it, just don't try to get me to agree with that decision (that's my right)
09:53.21tofuthe help entry should be "succint"
09:53.49clock_But is there a place where more detailed description can be entered?
09:54.05clock_This entry was so succinct I was unable to imagine almost anything how it works
09:54.07tofuin the mged documentation
09:54.20clock_But that's impractical to work
09:54.23clock_work with
09:54.27tofuthe command html reference
09:54.34tofui dont' mean the book
09:54.37tofui mean on the help menu
09:54.49clock_Where is the help menu?
09:54.54tofuit's..
09:54.56tofuon the help menu
09:55.03clock_Do you mean that if I type "help" it prints all the entries so they have to be short?
09:55.09tofuno
09:55.16clock_I have File Edit Create etc. but no Help
09:55.25tofukeep looking :)
09:56.08tofuhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
09:56.12tofusee the .. "Help" menu?
09:59.47tofuaiight, time to z, cya later
10:20.23clock_Oh, the Help is to the right!
10:21.07clock_Wow! Help on context!
10:28.52clock_Does the VRML and X3D export work?
11:29.29clock_I saw the picture of Mike Muus in the help
11:29.39clock_Did he have a wife and children?
13:12.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (6 files): Remove the "extra qualifications" in these files to quell the errors now spewed by g++ since 4.1+
13:17.07clock_<PROTECTED>
13:17.07clock_nmg_break_all_es_on_v() code=2, why wasn't this vertex fused?
13:17.07clock_<PROTECTED>
13:17.25clock_[...]
13:17.27clock_<PROTECTED>
13:17.27clock_find_best_vu: There is a loop to cut, lu=x7d01a400
13:17.27clock_find_best_vu: There is a loop to cut
13:17.27clock_bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler
13:17.27clock_conversion of /tetrax/yellow.r FAILED!!!
13:17.48clock_I tried to run g-vrml. Do these messages mean that the resulting VRML is broken?
13:17.54clock_Or that parts are mimsisng?
14:44.11``Erikmissing parts, as described by the {()} syntax
14:45.25clock_Why is this happening?
14:45.40clock_The model displays OK, animates OK, there are no overlaps printed
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21:32.21*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070111

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070111

00:08.02*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:22.19PrezKennedyman i hate doing forms for the government
00:23.07``Erikheh...
00:23.16``Erikget used to it. even if ya don't work for the gubmint.
00:25.12PrezKennedywell on the upside they dont need to secretly spy on me anymore
00:25.19PrezKennedythey know it all anyways
00:52.13``Erikheh
00:52.34``Erikdo ya think they secretly spy on you cuz they NEED to? ;)
01:06.58PrezKennedywell theres no point in it being secret because they already have it all
04:54.50*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202024060.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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05:06.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: add the generated brlcad.spec file to the dist
08:22.29*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
12:48.45``Erikoh, wait, added to dist, n/m
12:48.45``Erikheh
13:26.49clock_I am surprised how the glass looks realistically in BRL-CAD
13:27.14clock_And also how BRL-CAD can be used to clarify composition of complicated 3D object better than words or images
13:27.55clock_http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Lorries/
13:29.50archivistmost lorries travel outside rush hour so no need
13:30.13clock_sorry that was a bad URL
13:30.44clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_mpeg4_asp.avi
13:30.50clock_This one is right - the video
15:50.44clock_brlcad: can't play it?
15:51.07brlcadon a different machine, lacks a few codecs
15:51.18clock_brlcad: can you play Theora or WMV?
15:51.30clock_brlcad: it's encoded with xvid
15:51.39clock_xvid or divx codec should be fine
15:51.49brlcadyeah, no divx here
15:52.05brlcadnor vorbis.. so perhaps wmv
15:52.06clock_brlcad: try  http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_wmv.avi or  http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut.ogg
15:54.13brlcadhm.. even windows media player won't play the wmv
15:54.23clock_It's a WMV in AVI container
15:54.59brlcadit still won't play it regardless :)
15:55.29clock_Do you have SP2?
15:55.41brlcadnot a windows box
15:55.49clock_A coworker who has Windows XP can play all the videos I generate on my machine
15:55.59brlcadprobably has the codex's installed
15:56.12clock_But a colleague who hasn't SP2 cannot play any
15:56.22clock_WMV and AVI are Microsoft-specified formats
15:56.42clock_archivist: which one did you try?
15:56.54archivistfirst and ogg
15:57.01brlcadyeah, but they are still encoded with a codec regardless of the file format -- the player doesn't like the codec
15:57.18clock_archivist: no wonder debian cannot play wmv and MPEG4 - proprietary formats. But not including Theora - no excuse
15:57.46clock_There's nothing like player likes/doesn't like the codec
15:57.51archivistthe world does not run according to M$
15:58.04clock_If something is encoded in format X, anything compatible to format X must be able to play it
15:58.19clock_archivist: Theora is not MS.
15:58.53clock_try to play http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut.y4m.bz2
15:59.04clock_bzip2 -d it first. It's YUV4MPEG2 and mplayer should be able to play it
15:59.14clock_It's a raw video. No encoding.
15:59.21clock_Raw Y'CbCr 4:2:0.
15:59.38clock_With a couple of extra ASCII headers
16:01.27clock_archivist: do you have libtheora installed on your debian? Do you have mplayer?
16:01.37clock_VLC on Windows is able to play the Theora
16:02.14clock_unfortunately I am unable to encode into Flash or Quicktime
16:02.27clock_I could encode into MPEG2
16:02.31clock_Can you play MPEG2?
16:02.34clock_But it would be huuuge
16:03.52archivistthis box has totem but its going into terminal thrash atm
16:04.38clock_terminal thrash == segfault aka signal 11?
16:06.25*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.143)
16:07.21archivistno that bz2 pushed the box to the limit till it crashed only a P2
16:07.51archivistback to "normal" now
16:08.56clock_something is wrong with your system when you cannot unpack zipped files
16:09.19archivisttoo much open at once , not enough ram........
16:09.35clock_Aren't you running KDE, OpenOffice or Java?
16:10.15clock_These programs often eat a lot of memory
16:10.43archivistno java, no openoffice atm 6 firefox 6 gecko 9 terminal and a few others and a bot in the background
16:11.02clock_can you play the .y4m?
16:11.29archivistas i said the unpack failed, so gave up
16:15.27archivistafter shutting stuff down still using most of swap so gotta do something soon
16:19.06clock_archivist: why doesn't your Debian box have Theora?
16:19.51archivistIll ask the box and if it has a valid excuse
16:22.57clock_Debian politicizes about free software all the time and Theora is THE hallmark perfectly free-software codec
17:01.10*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
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22:30.10``Erik*bakebakebake*
22:39.56MaloeranDarn, I slided on a patch of ice riding my bicycle and broke a pedal
22:40.29MaloeranThese ultra-light carbon fiber bicycles can't take much of a beating, really
22:42.58MaloeranI don't have a scratch myself, thanks to these full plate armors in the shape of puffy coats meant to handle -40C
22:45.28brlcadouch
22:46.38brlcadprobably smarter than my tendancy to still wear regular bike gear even when it's just a few C
22:47.13brlcadsucks about the pedal.. at least it wasn't the frame though :)
22:47.15brlcador your head ;)
22:47.26MaloeranIt offers surprisingly good protection... but riding through ice and snow is somewhat dangerous, still
22:47.39Maloeran:) Yes, it isn't too serious
22:48.26``Erikno skiis?
22:50.57MaloeranI haven't tried that yet, I'm not sure it would be legal in the streets of Montreal
22:51.04Maloeranor in bicycle lanes
22:53.41``ErikI'm under the impression that cars tend to fall over slightly less... y'know... 4 big fat tires instead of 2 skinny ones... far less pressure exerted...
22:54.29``Erikyeah, $'s and environmental damage, but *shrug* still gotta get from point a to b, not like the old cottage industry days
22:58.54MaloeranGood point, sure :). Yet, riding a bicycle, including the physical exhaustion releasing endomorphin, is quite pleasant
23:00.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.115.131)
23:06.49``Erikhmmmm, sometimes... as a hobby, perhaps :)
23:07.10``Erikarriving where I need to in comfort is more pleasant to me than stitches on my face :> *duck*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070112

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070112

04:03.15*** join/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
04:03.27*** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@216.115.228.148)
04:58.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add configuration checks and build system support to disable C++ outright if necessary.
05:13.58*** join/#brlcad VivekVC (n=user@59.93.43.15)
05:21.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: comment that those are the guts to the 'cp' command, let WDB_TCL_CHECK_READ_ONLY work even if there isn't an interpreter
05:22.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/track.c: let WDB_TCL_CHECK_READ_ONLY work even if there isn't an interpreter.. that define really belongs in a header.
05:27.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
05:27.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: make at least the copy command work without an interpreter.. really all of the
05:27.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: librt needs to be able to function without an interpreter necessarily being
05:27.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: present... a good start would be some wrapper function/macro over
05:27.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: Tcl_AppendResult w/ bu_log
05:42.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (tclscripts/lib/Db.tcl tclscripts/helplib.tcl mged/cmd.c): update c command help, the expression is not optional (it wants at least the first object name)
05:54.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: stub in initial details for copying a v5 combination object. it's not functional yet, but this was a good breaking point.
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18:46.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Update support for building/selecting compilation for openNURBS. Now specifies the include path and requisite c++ library.
18:47.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Renamed on_nurb.h header to brep.h for clarity.
18:52.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Defined new b-rep primitive constant id
18:58.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: Define new b-rep primitive internal structure.
19:03.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add support for conditionally including brep primitive in the build (determined by presence of openNURBS library/configuration option)
19:06.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_brep.cc g_on_nurb.c): Rename g_on_nurb.c to g_brep.cc for clarity and to trigger proper C++ compilation. Add C placeholder for C++ openNURBS class needed in rt_brep_internal structure.
19:07.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: Add b-rep primitive interface and function table definition.
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21:35.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cc: Add initial implementation of an openNURBS memory archive to support brep export/import.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070113

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070113

00:32.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.172.163)
00:58.16Twingywow, last time I saw open nurbs was when I added it to nurbana in 2000
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09:42.00clock_I can't make a light work
09:42.17clock_I made a small sphere, selected the light shader, red light and put there 1000 lumens and it still doesn't do anything
09:42.30clock_looks gray and the adjacent think is also flat gray, no red glow
09:44.39clock_oh, it must be included in a group and blah blah
12:40.21``Erik<PROTECTED>
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20:42.10cad48woot, http://irc.brlcad.org is back on-line
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21:02.45``ErikO.o
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21:03.26fuzznut1234yay, I'm a temporary luzer!
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070114

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070114

05:03.27*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
08:28.57MaloeranAhah, these online IQ tests are so worthless, way too easy to get a perfect score... People pay to be flattered I guess
14:14.56``Erikiq tests were never designed to find out who's smart, they were designed to figure out who was in need of special attention and care...
17:27.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: the enumeration script was counting too many directories. ignore the CVS, .libs, .deps dirs when counting
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20:07.24jmorrowhello everyone.  I have a simple question
20:08.14brlcadjmorrow: hello
20:09.17jmorrowI tried to run the tutorial on brlcad for Mac OS X, and got an error message that my display had no name or environmental variable.  Any suggestions?
20:14.30brlcadtutorial for Mac OS X?
20:14.31brlcadjmorrow: regardless, sounds like you're not running in X11 (which is unfortunately still required when running on Mac OS X)
20:15.14brlcador not listening, hm
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20:55.20``Erikheh
21:09.07*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.115.246)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070115

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070115

04:38.19brlcadwoot, 6.2 released
06:01.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (shaders.sh Makefile.am): simplify the eagleCAD pix file name handling.. no sense making a link. call it eagleCAD-512x438.pix now
06:26.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (16 files in 4 dirs):
06:26.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: Pedantic licensing update to retract the "BSD Advertising Clause", i.e. clause 3
06:26.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: of the original 4-clause BSD license. As granted by William Hoskins, Director
06:26.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: to the Office of Technology Licensing at the University of California, Berkeley,
06:26.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: update the license on code copyrighted by Berkeley to retract the advertising
06:26.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: clause. See ftp://ftp.cs.berkeley.edu/pub/4bsd/README.Impt.License.Change for
06:26.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: details.
06:31.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): the clauses are no longer numbered, so the author's original exemption of the advertising clause is no longer relevant. reword correspondingly.
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19:26.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
19:26.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: Updated the remaining remnants of the original BSD license from libtermlib and
19:26.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: libregex as part of a pedantic licensing update to retract the 'BSD Advertising
19:26.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: Clause', i.e. clause 3 of the original 4-clause BSD license. This change was
19:26.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: granted by William Hoskins, Director to the Office of Technology Licensing at
19:26.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: the University of California, Berkeley. The license on code copyrighted by
19:26.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: Berkeley (as well as code that had updates from other contributors but that
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070116

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070116

02:21.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: 2D drawing entities are now converted to sketch objects rather than NMG wire edges.
02:34.42brlcadwoo hoo!
02:35.44brlcadjohn continues to rock
02:50.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: woot, john modified dxf-g to turn 2D wireframe entities specified in the dxf in as sketch objects instead of nmg wireframe objects
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12:26.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): prepare openNURBS for win32-msvc runtime libraries branch
12:33.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_brep.cpp Makefile.am g_brep.cc): rename g_brep.cc to g_brep.cpp for compatibility reasons with MS Visual Studio
12:37.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (.cvsignore libz.dsp): prepare libz for win32-msvc runtime libraries branch
12:41.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: undef the former for WIN32 defined read and write
12:43.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: MS Visual C doesn't like empty structs (known bug)
12:46.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): openNURBS and libz integration into win32-msvc runtime libraries branch
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15:28.40brlcadrossberg: pretty cool :)
15:36.22rossbergbrlcad: is it already operational? (it looks like it isn't)
15:36.42brlcadno, not yet -- but it's actively being worked on
15:37.05brlcadone of the other devs is learning the openNURBS api -- looks like it might solve a lot of problems
15:37.30brlcadthough it doesn't seem to have ray intersection evaluation, so we will still have to implement that on our own
15:37.39brlcadwe == he  of course :)
15:42.27rossbergwe are working here with rhino too, so we are looking forward to the new possibilities :-)
15:42.49brlcadyeah, it makes for a trivial 3dm converter too, which was part of the motivation
15:44.41brlcadone of the current plans is to make the serialized representation of the brep objects just be a 3dm bytestream so files could be fully preseved on conversion in or out
15:46.15brlcadthe bigger goal, though, is that IF their tessellation support works fast/robust enough and boolean evaluation can be easily added, this might also help solve our overall tessellation-of-implicits problem too
15:46.44rossbergbut it would still be possible to reference single objects in the stream?
15:47.09brlcadyeah it would
15:47.41brlcadmore just as the serialization format itself, instead of something custom
15:48.16brlcadit's just now being looked at, so it's not clear that is the way it's going to be done in the least yet
15:49.19brlcadthe specs indicate a per-object overhead would be very minimal (and make processing code a lot simpler)
15:55.09rossbergi've some doubts about the "easy" in adding boolean operations, but it would at least push the free form surfaces(?) in BRL-CAD
18:06.20brlcadstop staring
18:06.22brlcadstart writing
18:43.13``Erikum, I'm plannificatin' and strategificatin'
18:43.20``ErikI don't lay code when I don't know what's going on.
18:46.10archivistyou dont edit add bug , ohhhhh thats what it does! method
19:32.49brlcadheh
19:43.45MaloeranEh well, seems that immigration visa won't work after all
20:27.59``Erikyuh oh
20:28.18``Erikshould I raise alarm bells over here?
20:34.42MaloeranWell, I guess Lee might want to know that
20:37.33brlcadwhat does "won't work" mean?
20:37.40MaloeranI'll remain a consultant working for SURVICE from Canada ( until I reach 12 years of experience, get a degree or marry an american girl ;) )
20:38.09MaloeranThe immigration lawyers said that the immigration visa demand wouldn't be accepted
20:38.10brlcadshould be trivial for you to get an indefinite work visa if anything
20:39.56brlcadthat's what I assumed you were actually trying to do -- and that much is pretty straightforward
20:40.29MaloeranApparently, it would have been trivial with a completed degree
20:40.38brlcadyou could come on a work permit visa, h1b visa iirc that survice would apply for as an employer
20:41.08brlcadsounds like BS to me
20:41.12MaloeranRight, yet that requires either 12 years of experience or a degree
20:41.41brlcadif I remember the paperwork, the clause requires unique expertise applicable to the job, which you rather specifically have
20:41.46brlcadthat's the overarching criteria
20:42.00brlcadeverything else just helps
20:42.58brlcadmaybe the requirements have changed, but I can't imagine a degree of any sort other than basic education being a requirement
20:43.25brlcadoooh, eww
20:43.52brlcadthere is a clause for that now.. hrmph
20:44.39MaloeranAh, yes there is :). I thought there were still ways from what I read, but SURVICE's lawyers said otherwise
20:45.10brlcad"a person may obtain an educational equivalence through a combination of education, specialized training or progressively responsible work experience."
20:45.53brlcad12 years comes from that "progressively responsible work experience" where 3 years experience generally equates to a year in school to the legal folk
20:46.38MaloeranI see.
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20:50.44cadguywhois maloeran
20:51.41MaloeranHi Lee
20:51.54cadguyAfternoon
20:52.18MaloeranI guess Erik forwarded the news I got from SURVCE's lawyers ; there wouldn't be an immigration or work visa for me in the short term
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20:52.34MaloeranLacking either a degree or 12 years of experience
20:52.45cadguyI heard.  Only one response: *&@^@&*%@@#$^$*&$$^@#$%$!!!!!
20:52.54MaloeranI second that statement :)
20:54.04cadguy?
20:54.43MaloeranI mean I agree with the *&@^ part.  Mark recommended to get some Bachelor from the university of Phoenix quickly ; not too sure what that implies yet, it's surely months/years away
20:55.36cadguyI don't know for sure, but that sounds like a great angle.
20:55.48cadguyStill, it is some time away.
20:56.29cadguyMakes one consider the diploma mill approach.
20:57.41MaloeranYes, I'm looking... SURVICE seems interested in keeping me around, visa or not, but it's surely not as practical
20:58.22cadguythere are definite advantages to geographic co-location
20:58.32``Erikyeah, makes lunches more amusing
20:58.50``Erikoh, uh, and coordination and communication, too o.O
20:58.53MaloeranIt's surely more enjoyable to begin with, yes
20:59.06cadguycoordinating lunces is good ;-)
20:59.11cadguylunches
20:59.19brlcadi'm all for lunch in toronto
20:59.43cadguyWe could make it a weekly event! 8-)
20:59.49brlcador even in montreal too I suppose ;)
20:59.56``Erikheh, 'cept that's a hell of a bike ride for mal, dude... :D
21:00.11MaloeranEh, Montreal is far away in the snow with a bike these days :)
21:00.16brlcadoh he'd be going too? :)
21:00.49``Erik<-- not affluent enough to visit strange countries (and canada is very very strange) just for lunch
21:01.25cadguynot effluent enough?  There's medication for that.
21:02.27``Erikthis code has been infected and infested. :/ it'll take more work than I'd hoped to extract for standalone testbedding. :(
21:03.36``Erik(and what kinda freakin' function name is Doug2Mike() ???)
21:03.45MaloeranAhaha
21:03.46brlcadhehe
21:04.38cadguyDAG -> MJM
21:05.23brlcadMaloeran: do you know if they considered a H2B visa instead?  that would at least get you a visa for a year and is less strict
21:05.54MaloeranI don't think they did, they mostly considered H1B and various ways to achieve immigration status
21:06.01MaloeranI'll have a look and pass the message
21:06.54brlcadit's entirely limited to a year, and I think non-renewable -- but it might be useful to get something else in place
21:08.15MaloeranI see, sound good. That would give more than an year to find a bachelor degree somewhere
21:26.11brlcadotherwise, you could become their season code gardener or something ;)  
21:26.16brlcadh2a visa
21:26.31brlcadthat'd get you another year or two
21:27.52MaloeranIs that the visa for working in agriculture? :) Eheh, yes
21:30.08``Erik*sigh* a simple binary tree instead of a hash. ffs.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070117

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070117

00:15.59Maloeranhttp://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9425/atheistry3.jpg  -  I'm not quite sure it's indeed a joke, the alternative is... terrifying
00:52.09``Erikhttp://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The_Complicator's_Gloves.aspx
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06:09.33MaloeranNice story, Erik
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09:37.59MaloeranToday's JerkCity comic is even more unintelligible than usual. Some day, uou'll have to explain to me how it makes any sense, Erik :)
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13:12.32clock_Hi
13:12.48clock_In BRL-CAD it's possible to map a texture on an object that is taken from a .pix file, right?
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14:15.04``Erikwhich, "caught in a snowstorm"?
16:15.17brlcadclock_: yes, the "Principles of Effective Modeling" book covers doing that iirc
16:16.15brlcadusuaully you want a stack shader using texture and phong/plastic, or texture+plastic+bump, etc
16:16.51clock_what gamma is assumed in the .pix file?
16:25.40brlcadassumed by what?  the intensity during ray-tracing will be entirely dependent upon the other shaders selected and the light sources
16:26.22brlcadotherwise the pix file just provides raw rgb values to whatever *else* will otherwise be transforming the values
16:27.37brlcadif you *just* apply a texture without another shader, the only correction will be that of the lightsource in your scene -- that is to say probably some horrible linear curve
16:31.20clock_let's say I set the output of the brl-cad to be linear
16:31.38clock_and increase red instensity in the .pix file twice. Do I get twice as bug red component on the output?
16:31.44clock_Or is the input assumed to have gamma=1/2.2?
16:32.11clock_Like in raytracing you have to calculate linear, unless you want to get bullshit. But when you have 8-bit files, linear doesn't make sense, only 2.2
16:33.07clock_because linear 8-bit = banding
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19:34.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/Makefile.am libtienet/Makefile.am): install libtie headers...
19:37.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): type fixes (size_t isn't necessarily unsigned int, signed vs unsigned, etc)
19:56.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
19:56.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: Change the include path in OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS to ${top_srcdir} instead of
19:56.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: ${top_builddir}, as opennurbs.h is not generated.
22:54.55MaloeranAh, I'm really falling in love with the game Go, and I found some cafe where they play 24 hours a day
22:55.22MaloeranI should play with Lee next time :), though I'm not too good yet
23:01.09brlcad``Erik: they shouldn't, but they're included similarly to the vers.c files so that you can build on Windows from a checkout
23:02.02brlcadso until someone(tm) improves the build system on windows so that they're properly created, we get the joy of seeing that they are modified (which is a different problem in itself)
23:04.29brlcad``Erik: also, the size_t changes are problematic
23:04.51brlcaddon't you think they would have been made to use size_t a decade ago were there not some concern? :)
23:05.04brlcadit didn't use size_t on purpose
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23:40.55``Erikperhaps, but it causes breakage on modern platforms now :/
23:41.18``Erikmebbe it should be ifdef'd... #ifdef DARKAGES #define size_t unsigned long
23:41.19``ErikO.o
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070118

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070118

01:02.47brlcadwhat exactly was the breakage?
01:03.07``Erikwidth differences on 64b fbsd
01:03.28``Erikmostly just -Wall -W -Werror -ansi -pedantic hunting *shrug*
01:03.43``Erikadmin -o 'em if you want *shrug*
01:04.07brlcadcvs admin is the devil
01:04.18``Erik(everyone else who read that cmd, forget it now. seriously. flush it out of your brain. it's a nuclear command.)
01:04.38brlcadno kidding
01:05.06brlcadif I have to restore a cvs backup, i'd be removing commit access at the same time
01:05.14brlcadadmin is baaad
01:05.25brlcadanyways, the actual error though?
01:05.53brlcadwas it on the cast on the malloc() link in bu_malloc()?
01:05.54``Erikmeh, I don't remember off the top of my head, I actually modified my checkout in december...
01:06.09brlcador on a caller to bu_malloc()
01:06.22``Erikthe bu_malloc<->malloc relationship
01:06.35brlcadheh, well that's true with either
01:08.00``Erik<-- got a hair up his arse to do the anal flags thing, got that far and got busy with other things *shrug*
01:18.03brlcadhmm, I'll have to let it simmer a bit .. the biggest impact is adding another dep to the bu interface (even though there are a few others that sprinkle in size_t too)
01:18.49brlcadgiven the move to allow anything that is strict ansi 89 complaint, I think most of the old reasons vanish
01:19.23brlcadnot sure if size_t is 89, but it's at least 99 so it just adds a header dep on stddefs.h
01:31.20Maloeransize_t is C89
01:38.51``Erikwhen we merge rayforce in, it'll induce c99 as a requirement (for that part)
01:39.33MaloeranAh yes, it's all pretty much C99
01:41.39``Erikwhat, c89 vs c99 vs, uh, vax k&r?
01:41.58``Erikemacs vs vim vs alltheothercrap?
01:42.06MaloeranOh, no :). Old good religious debates, you know... Reason versus absurd theories
01:42.12``Erikhum
01:42.21``Erikreason vs absurity... so... vim vs emacs...
01:42.22``ErikO:-)
02:01.49brlcadout of curiosity, what c99isms?
02:03.18brlcadi recall seeing a lot of GNUisms, but not so much c99isms
02:04.55brlcadnothing wrong with making c99 allowable too, it was on the plate for next year -- just strict c89 was the "next step" and a lot of cleanup in itself
02:14.31MaloeranC99 data types, restrict keyword, variable-length arrays... I think the rest is gnu99
02:15.43``Erikscoped functions? (function definitions inside of functions)
02:16.07MaloeranNo nested functions, that was in the old code
02:16.07``Erikor didja not go that route?
02:16.13``Erikaight
02:18.18brlcadwhy do I get the feeling the code has never been compiled with anything but gcc? :)
02:19.17MaloeranAhaha. I'm not sure, can you answer that Erik? :)
02:20.25brlcadheh
02:31.41MaloeranIt should be reasonably portable ; 32, 64 or X bits, IEEE or non-IEEE floats, GNU'isms with alternative paths... It still needs testing in other environments
02:36.04``ErikI'm sure mipspro or sunpro would puke
02:36.33MaloeranThey are C99, right?
02:36.41``Erikdon't think so...
02:36.52``Erikd'no if tendra is
02:37.27brlcadthey both support c99 .. it's more what exact headers are allowed and what mode you tell the compile in by default
02:37.27``Erikhuh, cool
02:37.47brlcaddefault behavior (akin to gcc's gnu99 mixed default) is a hybrid that might turn off some c99 stuff
02:38.13brlcadmy faith in sunpro's capacity to compile c99 strict is weak
02:38.48brlcadlast time I was working on sunpro, if you told the compiler to go strict, it would puke on its own system headers being non-compliant and abort
02:38.57``Erikhehehe, sweet
02:41.44brlcadyeah, i was amused
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14:02.27rossbergquestion from yesterday: what's the problem with vers.c on Windows?
14:37.35clock_And, what's the assumed for the pix files when rendering textures?
14:37.45clock_assumed -> assumed gamma
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15:09.23brlcaddout!
15:10.40brlcadclock_: i don't know if there's another language barrier coming into play, but i answered yesterday that it entirely depends on the shader(s) being used
15:11.09brlcadthere's no "gamma value" that will answer that question that covers all the various shaders
15:12.07clock_What are the shaders that can map pixmaps?
15:12.26brlcadwhat do you mean by map pixmaps?
15:12.36clock_cause pixmaps to appear on objects
15:12.37brlcadyou can stack *any* shader on top of any other
15:12.54brlcadeach layer is effectively a filter
15:13.06clock_subtractive or multiplicative filter?
15:13.21brlcadarbitrary, depends on the shader
15:13.30brlcadthat's the whole point
15:13.45clock_How do I make a cube which is painted with a pixmap?
15:13.53clock_plastic + bitmap shader?
15:14.05brlcadthat's one way
15:14.17clock_and what will be the assumed gamma of the pixmap in that case?
15:14.57brlcadwhat answer will make you happy?
15:15.05clock_the correct one
15:15.50clock_Or - if you don't understand the question -
15:16.04clock_what happens with the pixmap when it enters the shader?
15:16.12clock_How is it interpreted, or for what is it used?
15:16.43brlcadi actually just get the feeling that you're not understanding my answer
15:18.15clock_I want to know with what gamma I should generate the pixfiles
15:18.15brlcadit doesn't boil down to the same gamma metric you have with the display, you have the values in the image file that are parsed directly
15:18.16clock_where do I figure this out or how do I figure this out?
15:18.16brlcadi suppose you could "say" that they're linearly looked up
15:18.25brlcadbut that isn't entirely true in itself as it still depends on the light
15:19.13clock_linearly looked up == gamma is 1.0?
15:19.53brlcadprobably the closest corrollary, but again, that's not entirely valid mapping
15:20.08clock_what is a corollary and what is a valid mapping?
15:20.19clock_I want to know the gamma I should encode it with!
15:20.33clock_Or at least tell me how it's calculated inside
15:21.11clock_In the worst cause if I don't manage to pry the answer from you, I can try putting pixels with values of 64 and 128 and look at ratio of the resulting values ;-)
15:21.24clock_determine by an experiment ;-)
15:22.48brlcadray is fired at scene, intersection is found with an object, that object has a texture shader and a phong shader, texture value is looked up and combined with light visibility from that position in 3-space, that intensity is combined with the phong shader's intensity lookup that is similarly based on light intensity at that point, but also takes into account shadowing, specularity/diffusion parameters based on object curvature
15:23.01brlcadthat's the jist of "how it's calculated"
15:23.42clock_texture value is looked up that means we take a value triplet from the input pixfile, right?
15:24.45clock_like if there is say 0x80 0x80 0x40 in the pixfile, then we take 0x80, 0x80, 0x40...
15:24.51brlcadand on top of all of that, the resulting image map is then mapped to a framebuffer which can apply a gamma adjustment, which is then displayed in a display manager window which can also perform a gamma adjustment
15:25.53clock_What I am interested in is "texture value is looked up and combined with light visibility from that  position in 3-space, that intensity is
15:25.56clock_..."
15:26.16clock_What does the "combined" exacly comprise? multiplying the pixmap triplet with the light triplex?
15:26.28clock_triplet
15:27.42brlcadbasically yes, through a settable weighting factor that is part of the phong shader
15:28.25clock_is there some exponential function applied to the pixfile before it is multiplied with the ray?
15:28.52clock_So if I understand it correctly, the pixmap value defines directly (with some scaling) how much the object reflects light at that point?
15:29.08brlcadnot that comes to mind
15:29.32brlcadno, it doesn't determine how much is actually reflected -- phong does that
15:29.56clock_OK lemme express more precisely
15:30.06clock_if you have some pixel value in the pix file say 10
15:30.18clock_and the pixel happens to reflect 10% light
15:30.35brlcadok
15:30.39clock_and you increase the value in the pix file to 20, now the pixel will reflect 20% of light?
15:31.25brlcadyou mean 20% of that 20 intensity?
15:31.39clock_no I mean that the number of photons will double
15:31.49clock_if you imagine the scene like a pinball with photons
15:31.57clock_a photon == a pingpong ball
15:32.34brlcadif the pix file has 10 and phong determines reflectance of 10%, the pixel will be intensity 1  -- increase the pix file to 20 and with that same reflectance of 10% will result in a pixel intensity of 2
15:33.00clock_yes that makes sense
15:33.04clock_this is what I wanted to know
15:33.12clock_in other word, the gamma of the input pixfile is 1.0
15:33.49brlcadthat is where we diverge
15:34.31brlcadmaybe to say that "when combined with phong paraameters that give a gamma of 1.0", yes the gamma of the input pixfile is 1.0
15:34.40clock_For me, "double the value in the pixfile and the pixel intensity doubles" is enough for me
15:35.14archivistreflection is linear
15:36.01brlcadthat it is
15:36.13clock_The other possible meaningful implementation would be that someone would realize that the 8-bit values in the input pix file cause a banding near 0 because of insufficient colour depth
15:36.29clock_and would insert a power-to-2.2 function between loading the pixfile and sending it into the shader
15:37.08clock_but according to what you are saying, it's not this way
15:37.17brlcadyou could leave the pix file unmodified and make a non-linear light too, or a non-linear shader, or in the display manager too
15:38.02clock_no that would produce corrupted image
15:38.06brlcadbanding is a visual artifact of the end result -- the math occurs in floating point
15:38.19clock_the pixfile isn't in floating point
15:38.39brlcadi didn't say it is
15:46.32clock_can I imagine the bitmap shader like there is an image printed on the object and the pixfile gives reflectivities in the individual places?
15:47.25brlcadlike a bump map?
15:47.30brlcadthere is a bump map shader
15:47.39clock_no
15:47.58clock_bump map is something where the shape of the surface is supposed to be distorted, isn't it?
15:48.09brlcadonly visually distorted
15:48.25brlcadby changing reflectivities at various places based on the image
15:48.48dtidrowa displacement map would actually distort the surface
15:48.49clock_I always saw the bump map for something that modulates the normal vector
15:48.55clock_like embossed relief
15:49.08dtidrowbasically, yes
15:49.16clock_no I don't mean bummap
15:49.48clock_I mean like if I want to render say a soda can
15:49.58brlcadclock_: yes, and if you look at the edge of something that has a bump map, it's got a nice non-bumpy smooth edge
15:50.00clock_the soda can is cylinder and they printed something on that using offset print
15:50.11clock_the soda can is not wrinkled in any way
15:50.49clock_or I want to render a room that has a mural (painting) on a wall
15:51.00clock_then I want pixmap and not bumpmap, right?
15:51.24brlcadyou'd generally want both for the visual effect
15:51.51brlcador actually model the paint if you're going to do it "right" in a solid modeling realm
15:52.12clock_you mean like simulating the fact that the paint adds thickness to the object?
15:53.08clock_That's how I modeled a smoke flue that is painted black inside and white outside
15:53.09brlcadshaders are just visual effects, mostly "fake" per-se .. if you care about the actual material properties of even something like paint, you'd give it a physical representation and model it
15:53.15clock_0.5mm thin and 0.1mm paint inside
15:53.19clock_thin -> tin
15:54.05clock_but that's a bit tedious process when it's not just a whole surface painted but I want a Ronja logo on it
15:54.13clock_then I could use the pixmap instead, couldn't I?
15:54.27brlcadyou can generate geometry from pixmaps
15:54.48brlcadsimilar to how the circuitry was modeled in the principles book
15:55.24brlcadat least I think it covered the circuitry modeling.. that was how it was done regardless
15:55.46brlcadin general, solid modeling is tedious ;)
15:56.26clock_I wouldn't say
15:56.38clock_after I learned the meaning of the matrix
15:57.01brlcadthe tool(s) hopefully make it less tedious, but the goal of getting something that is physically accurate (instead of just visually accurate or "close enough") generally requires providing a lot of detail that you wouldn't intuitively think you'd need sometimes but you do
15:57.15clock_cxsx cxsy cxsz cx+= cysx cysy cysz cy+= czsx czsy czsz cz+= 0 0 0 1
15:57.45clock_I don't use the click-click rotations and shifts anymore, I enter the matrices directly in vi and it's fast to model
15:58.36brlcadthat's good, but is that more the efficiency of vi or the deficiency of mged?  I'd say it's more the latter
15:58.59clock_I use mged only for rotations that are not multiple of 90deg
15:59.04brlcadalthough that particular feature of using an external text editor to modify matrices is in mged too
15:59.06clock_which is say 1% of the model
15:59.19clock_I would appreciate if I didn
15:59.24clock_t have to type the trailing 0 0 0 1
15:59.47clock_I made a file /home/clock/m containing 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 and that's a highly valuable tool :)
16:00.05clock_in vi I type :r ~/m and I have a matrix and then I edit one number and I am happy :)
16:00.48clock_Is it allowed to use tabs instead of spaced in red?
16:01.35brlcadclock_: if you have your EDITOR var set before running mged, give 'red object.r' a try
16:01.51clock_I am using red object.r
16:02.03brlcadah, okay
16:02.37brlcadtabs should work fine, I think it's any whitespace
16:02.37clock_plus the green axes are also invaluable :)
16:02.50brlcadif not that'd be stupid and would be trivial to fix
16:03.05clock_can I even split the line into multiple ones - using \n as whitespace?
16:03.20brlcadthat's what I mean, I believe so ..
16:03.28clock_wow that's cool :)
16:03.36brlcadif it doesn't work, let me know and I'll fix it
16:03.41brlcadbut it certainly "should"
16:04.04brlcadpretty sure it used to work that way
16:04.07clock_Then I put the matrix tab-separated on 4 lines
16:04.40clock_is it possible to easily patch the red so it puts the matrix there even if it's a unit matrix?
16:16.19clock_brlcad: I think with your information I will be able to generate a picture correctly where the colours of the pixmap are not deformed
16:16.41clock_so it would look like the assumed physical reality
16:25.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: even if the matrix is an identity matrix, print it so that the user has a starting point. add a comment about using red with a read-only db.
16:25.55clock_wow :)
16:26.19clock_can you make the matrix to be formatted with tabs and spread over 4 lines and indented by 1 tab?
16:26.24clock_Then it would be even easier to edit
16:26.38clock_and now when can I downloaded this CVS brlcad?
16:26.45clock_when -> where?
16:37.26brlcadhave to make sure multiline works first
16:37.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: massive ws cleanup, make braces consistently match hacking style
16:41.27clock_I have a complicated model of almost whole Ronja installation
16:41.31clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
16:41.47clock_some of the files can be termporarily incomplete/empty/absent because I am rsyncing at the moment
16:42.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libbu routine to make a temp file reliably/consistently
16:42.39clock_look for "ronja" keyword
16:42.51clock_actually the manpage of rsync suggests that rsync should be pretty atomic.
16:43.07clock_so don't worry :)
16:53.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: restructure file so that the function declarations can go away.
17:35.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am:
17:35.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: while convenient and would otherwise be usefule, you can't reliably use '+='
17:35.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: operator on automake variables without requiring more current versions of
17:35.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: automake be installed (which we don't) so instead set a var and use accordingly
17:40.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add configure support for enabling/disabling framebuffers, display managers, image converters, and geometry converters
18:11.27``Erik"download this cvs brlcad"?
18:11.43``Erikread the cvs instructions at http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
18:12.02``Eriknamely, http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=105292
18:13.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am:
18:13.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: also do not need the openNURBS wrapper functions zcalloc() and zcfree() since
18:13.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: we're just letting zlib do it's own thing. compiling them in results in
18:13.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: multiple symbol definitions (and link errors) on os x at link time. now links.
18:27.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove more previous build products, now including aclocal.m4 too
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19:40.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/common.h): only include brlcad_config.h if actually building BRL-CAD. Prevents preprocessor redefinition warnings for things like PACKAGE. (this is the first step towards a cleaning activity).
19:55.13``Erik'thoom'
19:56.22clock_We have a wind here in Europe
19:56.30clock_with an online bodycount
19:58.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/ (32 files in 32 dirs): define the BRLCADBUILD preprocessor symbol
20:27.37Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6270657.stm  Good news, but I especially like the picture :)
20:36.39``Erikhm, yeah, gccisms
20:36.44``Erik__attribute__ is very gcc
20:37.33``Erik-std=c99, too
20:38.16MaloeranIf you disable SSE support, I don't think there will be many __attribute__ left
20:38.39``Erikheh, the notion is hardly gcc specific... gcc's implementation is just radically unlike everyone elses...
20:38.46``Erikvery... linuxy, that way... kinda microsofty
20:39.38``Erik(though much cleaner than the usual #pragma mechanism)
20:41.59MaloeranIt's clean enough, it could be abstracted through some #define ALIGNED __attribute__((aligned(16))) if you want
20:43.01``Erikblows up good on gcc2.95 heh
20:43.20MaloeranReally? Surprising
20:44.36``Erik'const restrict' seems to confuse it
20:44.58MaloeranNon-sense, restrict is c99 and that's perfectly valid
20:46.37``Erik... gcc 4.2 probably doesn't implement c99 perfectly, and this irix box has gcc 2.95 on it...
20:46.43``Erik./RF/graph.h:47: parse error before `elem'
20:47.19MaloeranThen it doesn't understand "restrict", perhaps it just doesn't support C99
20:47.49``Erikoh, wait, there it is, hah
20:47.53``Erikcc1: unknown C standard `gnu99'
20:48.22MaloeranWoohoo. Okay, gcc >=3.x is required
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21:09.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: Added documentation for -t option.
21:10.19``Erikit's just gettin' to be that time of day
21:12.38idayfinally got the $%^& pro-e converter running under linux
21:13.15dtidrow_workhehy
21:13.24dtidrow_workheh, rather...
21:14.45iday'course now I need to remove the inappropriate debugging comments...
21:16.34brlcadsorted out the makefile crap in src/external/ProEngineer/mk.in ?
21:16.43idayheh - not exactly
21:16.44iday:-)
21:16.58idaybut I should - to make it easier to repeat ;-)
21:17.49brlcadreally needs a --with-proe flag so you can specify where ptc's junk is installed
21:18.46idayyes - I'd like to get it automake-ified - but that's more work than I'm gonna do today...
21:19.13idaypro/e has eaten up my supply of patience (around 0900 this morning)
21:19.38brlcadwoke up at 5am for some reason today
21:19.42brlcadi'm starting to pay for it
21:19.46idayewwww
21:23.52brlcadiday: something weird about your sf account .. it doesn't send e-mails for you when you commit
21:23.59brlcaddoes it dump any errors?
21:24.30``Erikiday == jay-lo?
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22:18.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (24 files in 6 dirs): uppercase all #define symbols
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070119

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070119

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15:58.56``Erikbah, stupid fucking C
16:01.01archivistC is vundabar for obscure bugs
16:01.49dtidrowlol
16:02.03archivistmy bestest was on arm the C compiler use short branches in a case/switch, add 1 line crash!!!
16:02.11archivistused
16:02.13``Erikactually, it's cpp that's annoying
16:02.34``Erikthe lack of recursive macros... (syntax aware macros would be better, but not every language can be a lisp)
16:07.01brlcadTwingy: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070118/lf_nm/solar_home_dc  a goal? :)
17:52.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: add an option, a third parameter, that if set to anything will inform the macro to not keep the flag as a CFLAG/LDFLAG/etc leaving it up to the user to do something with the provided bc_[param2]_works variable
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18:21.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
18:21.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: this fixes a compilation/linking issue involving the new C++ openNURBS library
18:21.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: integration. it accounts for bad behavior in pre 1.5.8 libtool where the
18:21.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: generated libtool script would contain an -all_load directive on the linker line
18:21.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: for libraries that use convenience libraries as part of the
18:21.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: whole_archive_flag_spec. that flag in turn causes gcc to fail with various
18:21.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: errors on duplicate standard math and io symbols. the libtool script is simply
18:26.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
18:26.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: this fixes another compilation/linking issues involving the new C++ openNURBS
18:26.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: library integration. added is a check for the -fexceptions gcc compiler/linker
18:26.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: flag that takes care of an unresolved __Unwind_Resume symbol error when linking
18:26.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: rttherm (quite odd that only rttherm seems to provoke that symbol being
18:26.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: undefined). the symbol relates to exception handling support in gcc that would
18:26.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: otherwise be provided if linking with g++. could also have probably added the
18:28.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am:
18:28.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: use the EXCEPTIONS value as a LDFLAG so that we get -fexceptions here when
18:28.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: compiling with the gcc compiler and using the new openNURBS library. unclear
18:28.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: why we only get the __Unwind_Resume symbol error on only rttherm and not any
18:28.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: other binaries.
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20:45.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl):
20:45.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: for ease of (cvs diff) comparisons and review -- and since they are presently
20:45.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: stored in CVS for Windows build convenience -- sort the contents of the tclIndex
20:45.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: and pkgIndex.tcl files (taking the comment header into account)
20:51.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): initialize the lists, so it doesn't error if there was no header or contents
20:58.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/Makefile.am libtienet/Makefile.am): let the dynamic libs be built in addition to the static ones...
21:00.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Try to extract python compile/link info a little better, instead of assuming 2.4 on a standard FreeBSD.
21:02.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (3 files in 3 dirs): sorted indices
22:41.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: annotate that the rtweight zero index fix was sf bug 1629990
22:45.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (12 files in 12 dirs): no longer ignore the tclIndex and pkgIndex.tcl files, see if the modification updates can now be sorted out since they're now sorted.
22:52.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (19 files in 11 dirs): add the index files to CVS so they don't necessarily need to be generated upon checkout. no sense in archer's index files having all the fun.
23:46.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: butler updated the documentation such that the g_qa manual page now describes the -t tolerance option, fixes sf bug 1595839 'g-qa man page' reported by davidloman
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070120

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070120

00:33.54MaloeranErik or brlcad, I have a strange design question as this code will end up in BRL-CAD and it should be consistent with the practices there.  For network distributed processing, is it be acceptable for slave nodes to "blindly" trust all communication from their master node?
00:34.44MaloeranOr should it be robust, checking and validating all messages for coherency to maintain an usable, normal state?
00:35.39MaloeranI don't expect it would normally matter, unless you distribute processing between trusted and non-trusted boxes, or non-trusted entities forwarding packets
00:36.35``Erikoff the cuff, I would imagine that trusting netowrk traffic would be sufficient... I can doublecheck on monday or tuesday... send me an email <erikg@arl.army.mil> to remind me :)
00:37.47MaloeranOkay, some stuff would just be a bit complex or costly to "validate" for correctness...
00:38.39MaloeranI'm not saying faulty input would cause buffer overruns allowing to run any code on slave nodes, but at the moment, it could get them to segfault or be stuck in infinite loops
01:26.39brlcadMaloeran: in general, I believe there can be an assertion of trust for network-distributed processing is fine (otherwise someone would have already mentioned something)
01:27.39brlcadit should, however, probably still be reliable and robust -- some reasonable due-diligence to make sure things don't fall apart if someone just wiggles a network cable, for example
01:29.08brlcadi.e. you probably don't have to worry about *malicious* code and attacks, but you should be robust under normal operation that things work smoothly and fail in a non-catastrophic manner if they have to fail
01:41.23MaloeranRight, understandably so.  As an example, if a master node supplies broken graphs to slave nodes, it wouldn't be easy for them to detect that their rays are going to get stuck in infinite loops
01:43.59MaloeranThanks, it should be stable under cable wiggling and so on
01:45.10brlcadalthough getting stuck in an infinite loop would be a catastophic failure, about as useful as crashing
01:45.37MaloeranThat's difficult to prevent if the slave nodes do receive faulty, tempered data
01:45.53Maloeran( i.e. not in any normal circumstances )
01:45.58brlcadhow would they potentially receive faulty data?
01:46.08brlcadother than abuse
01:46.33MaloeranIt shouldn't normally happen, hence why I was asking if I can trust the network
01:47.38brlcadwhich depends on several things.. I trust that when I send a tcp packet that it will eventually arrive, I don't have even that same trust on udp of course
01:48.39brlcadyou can trust that you don't have to worry about malicious abuse, packets getting modified on the way, interceptions
01:49.33MaloeranAll right, thanks
01:51.05brlcadbut not that connectivity will be sustained, that you can loose a connection at *any* point (and how reliably you deal with the fault is a question, but generally some sort of handling even if to just abort())
01:51.31brlcadwhether or not you have to protect against yourself, i.e. bugs in your client code, is a question for yourself :)
01:52.02MaloeranI know that :). Clients can at any time connect and disconnect from their master, smoothly or brutally
01:52.20MaloeranClients can join up while work is being done, have their state synchronized and start shooting rays
01:53.00brlcadyou rolled your own networking?
01:53.45brlcader, sry jargon -- s/rolled/wrote/
01:54.08MaloeranIt's a low-level interface made of in/out buffers supplied by the user, it can be using tcp, mpi, infiniband, etc.
01:55.04brlcadi mean you wrote your own listen(), select(), read(), etc code or is it all over MPI or a mix or some other interface?
01:55.07MaloeranAnd the user inserts its own messages within the stream for distribution of raytracing work, so that high-level results can be transfered between nodes instead of large low-level ray intersection results
01:55.44brlcadyou're already higher level than I'm asking
01:56.22MaloeranIt's meant to work with any communication protocol really, it doesn't fundamentally care about that. There's only an user-supplied networking interface for tcp at the moment
01:56.46brlcaduhm "user-supplied"?
01:56.53brlcadi have to write socket code to use it? :)
01:57.10MaloeranYes, I mean it's not part of the raytracing library itself :)
01:57.32MaloeranI'll write other interfaces later on
01:57.38brlcadthat's actually probably a good thing
01:57.41brlcada very good thing
01:58.19brlcadbrl-cad already has a sufficiently robust network library that is preferred for most client/server applications
01:58.27brlcad(libpkg)
01:58.57MaloeranGreat then
02:00.24brlcadi was wondering just because if you had only rolled your own.. i've *yet* to see someone write their own socket code that was truely fault tolerant even under "normal use" (without just aborting on every little abnormality)
02:00.34brlcadat least with respect to writing basic tcp/ip networking code
02:01.05MaloeranI think I have done that long ago, I once wrote some client-based and browser-based game that was in itself a http server written from scrach
02:01.44Maloeran*Perhaps* less portable than your libpkg though :)
02:03.07brlcadjust about everyone's written client server apps and most work reasonably well all the time -- but not necessarily truely fault tolerant; i'd say it's even harder than writing portable code that works with any compiler
02:03.24brlcadlibpkg is pretty robust, but it's not even 100%
02:04.11MaloeranI don't entirely see what you mean by "fault tolerant", but the code didn't encounter any "fault" it wasn't handling running for two years
02:04.18brlcadportability is usually where things fall apart.. some assumption that worked on linux, that doesn't do a darn thing when running under hpux or bsd or solaris, etc
02:04.44brlcadthe code in a specific environment didn't have a fault -- put it in a different environment.. let the fun begin :)
02:04.44MaloeranNetworking fault tolerance seems rather simple to me, though I may be mistaken
02:05.01MaloeranOh, well that :). Okay, that code of mine is strictly Linux >= 2.4
02:05.11brlcadif you assume standards compliance and a standard networking api it is easier
02:05.36brlcadrather trivial actually
02:06.01MaloeranI'm guessing libpkg supports mpi and infiniband?
02:08.03MaloeranIt doesn't appear to, actually
02:08.07brlcadit's focus is very specific to client/server applications as a direct package transport layer -- basically at the same level of mpi, not higher
02:08.46MaloeranI see TCP stuff, do you have support for infiniband?
02:10.29brlcadnot specifically, it's not been used over infiniband afaik -- though i'm not sure there's anything that would preclude it from working
02:11.13MaloeranThere doesn't seem to be support for fbsd's kqueue() or Linux's epoll() either...
02:11.47MaloeranI guess it's very robust at what it does, perhaps not geared towards peak performance
02:12.02brlcadyep, and nope
02:12.23brlcadpredates most of those anyways
02:13.56MaloeranThanks for the pointer, I'll look into it more in details once I'm ready to move on from tcp
02:14.57brlcadnp
02:15.49brlcadit's not meant to be fancy or the fastest, but it is extensively portable and the behavior is pretty robust for what it was designed to do
02:16.30brlcadthere's src/libpkg/tpkg.c that basically implements ttcp client and server all in one
02:16.37brlcadas an example
02:18.58Maloeran*nods* I'll have to dig a bit more to find non-blocking I/O
02:28.35MaloeranThere sure is much copying and internal dynamic allocation in there
02:32.37brlcadwe did already clarify that it's purpose is a robust simple api, not performance already, didn't we?  that said the performance is almost always dwarfed by the network transport or application code itself
02:32.59brlcadthat is, i've yet to see it actually be a bottleneck concern worth optimizing
02:37.24brlcadbuffer allocation could certainly be improved, but it's still not something I'd even consider thinking about until the bottleneck or some profile showed it to be an issue
02:42.12``Erikhrmph
02:42.21``Erikit may be starting the obvious..
02:43.05``Erikbut tcp guarantees packets get to the target.. whole...
02:43.13``Erikudp makes no such assumptions
02:43.35``Erikso if you want udp transmitted data to be verifiable, you must do it yourself...
02:45.50``Erikmal: I've started wiring up a program to do brlcad vs adrt vs rayforce cmparisons... correctness and performance... I'm hoping that sometime next week, I'll have softare working with adrt and librt... and hopefull very soon after, permission to give you a copy
02:46.10``Erikexcuse my kbd mistakes... whiskey has been involved. O.o
02:46.44``Erik(well more than that night in salt lake city. *cough*)
03:06.53brlcad``Erik: that was part of the point (regarding assumptions)
03:07.25brlcadand yeah, was quite stating the obvious :)
03:49.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168050744.dsl.bell.ca)
05:09.00Twingybrlcad, yes
05:20.33MaloeranGreat Erik, let me know how it goes, if you need some specific demo coded for benchmarking
05:22.51Maloeranbrlcad, that's surely right. I'm well aware that I over-optimize and see inefficiencies everywhere
05:46.41MaloeranErik, if correctness is "low", we can turn off automatic vector generation and a couple other things to improve that point ; just tell me so if it appears to be an issue
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13:36.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): clean up after py-compile
13:36.26*** join/#brlcad KeenEars (n=opera@eat.ssau.ru)
13:40.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/adrt.py: trailing newline
13:41.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/main.sh: trailing newline
13:42.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: trailing newline
13:43.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.1: trailing newline
13:44.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/.cvsignore: trailing newline
13:48.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/rtwizard/examples/ (6 files in 6 dirs): trailing newline cleanup
13:51.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/rtwizard: standard header and footer
13:53.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/vas4/.cvsignore src/vdeck/.cvsignore TODO): trailing newline
13:57.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (26 files): update copyright to 2007
14:07.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh:
14:07.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: Remove the carte blanche statement that allowed selection of the license at
14:07.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: user's discretion and GNU's provision. If there's motivation to change the
14:07.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: license, even to a new version, it will need to be a conscious effort and
14:07.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: decision.
14:08.07*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-93-149.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:11.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am COPYING autogen.sh configure.ac): update copyright to 2007
14:11.59``ErikO.o
14:12.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/COPYING: copyright statement only relevant to current year in the example
14:13.13brlcadno, i'm not doing them one at a time
14:13.23``Erikfind . -type f | xargs sed -E -i.bak 's/[ \t]+$//'
14:13.26``Eriko.O
14:13.39``Erik(if you're on a decent os... I don't think linux can do that)
14:14.16brlcadyeah, there was a script that did that sort of cleanup too
14:14.29brlcada whole category of things like that
14:14.47``Erik<-- would've expected to see something like "brlcad/ (897 files in 47 dirs): trailing newline" out of cia
14:15.00brlcadnah, there was only the handful
14:15.11``Erikhehehe
14:15.23brlcadthe copyright script reports them, so I was cleaning up while it churned
14:15.30``Erikit made a LOT of cvs report noise when I did that to openal a few years back
14:15.43``Eriktoo many vc++ coders touching the repo, I guess
14:16.05brlcaddid most of that cleanup before we went open source
14:16.08``Erikor, 'ide' coders, rather... the disease has spread
14:16.17brlcad(since that's when the copyright script was written)
14:16.44brlcadthose are basically the ones that were crept in since last year
14:16.59brlcadlee and bob mostly
14:17.09``Erikbobs in windows land
14:17.18brlcadyeah, I don't know what lee's excuse is :)
14:17.19``Erikwant I should break lees pinky next I see him? ;)
14:21.11``Erikand you'd be surprised how many "software developers" don't grok the assertations made by tcp and udp and the fundamental differences o.O it's sad... (but they're the same coders who don't even put udp, much less rdp on the table when making design decisions)
14:22.43``ErikMaloeran: I'm going to get librt and adrt/libtie working in this framework, and it has stubs for rayforce... once it works and goes through the formal release process, you'll have 4 or 5 functions to fill out to get rayforce linked and operating. I'm doing the heavy lifting, you just have to wire your engine into it :D
14:24.31brlcadyeah, I usually have to explain to some dev on bz a couple times a year about how there assumption that packet X arriving before Y (or at all) is a bad assertion to make
14:24.58brlcadsurprisingly even happens with some of the more experienced coders, and they'll make the assumption repeatedly
14:27.46brlcadproblem more stems from the fact that they do happen to see the behavior of ordering and delivery 99% of the time, if not better, so they often try to blame routers and other crap when it doesn't get there in some order or at all -- and the problems usually only rear their head when it's pushed out to users (where that 1% or 0.1% ends up being dozens/hundreds of bug reports)
14:28.03``Erikbz is a udp protocol?
14:28.09``Erik(I doubt rdp)
14:28.41``Erikin a perfect world, udp is reliable and delivers packets in order... the real world isn't perfect *shrug*
14:28.50brlcadit uses a mix of udp and tcp, depending on whather the packet requires a delivery guarantee
14:29.07``Erikreponsiveness is probably also a major que
14:29.33``Erikif you lose a tcp packet, it has to stop the stream and re-request the lost packet... then rebuild it in stream order before you can read() it
14:29.36brlcadyeah, tcp is a pig, rather unplayable if that's all you used
14:30.14brlcadthere's an option to make all packets tcp only, and you basically have to be on the local net
14:30.25brlcadotherwise lag is too unbearable with just a couple players
14:30.31``Erikwhich results in hitching... sorta similar to shoddy gc (naive stop&copy, mark&sweep)... infrequent halts
14:31.36brlcadso it's a mix, things like posiition updates (which can be a couple dozen per second per player) are sent udp while things like player spawns and shot starts are tcp
14:32.15brlcaddoesn't really matter if you miss an update to some tanks' position, there are going to be many more following -- but i fyou missed notification that they fired a shot.. that could be bad
14:32.47``Erikoh, btw... the python crap I did yesterday... works dandy on linux and fbsd... not so much using the preinstalled python on a mac (they dont' have the .a file, rhel ONLY has the .a, ...) I think I'm at the point of not caring... I'm only doing it to support this rayforce vs adrt (in an s2 like environment) app, and osX isn't high on the list of concerns :/
14:33.24``Erikso if you get really bored and want python linked in on osX, ... I'll let ya take care of that... otherwise, adrt is still "not officially supported" I guess
14:33.49``Erikdoes bz do the quack style "delta delta delta key" type thing?
14:33.51brlcadhey, the checks are in there.. if it can autodetect, so be it .. if it still can't so be it :)
14:34.08``Erikit had detects for the python interpreter executable
14:34.19brlcadright, still does
14:34.25brlcadthey're just inside the macro
14:34.55``Erikfinding the libraries and headers was not searched, justin hardwired it for python 2.4 installed normally to /usr/local (fbsd style), so that's what I was working around yesterday... it can now cope with python 2.5, python 2.2 on linux (/usr), ...
14:35.10brlcadyep
14:35.19brlcadi've had that mess he left in the back of my mind all year
14:35.37``Erikwow, my english is worse than a java devers code
14:36.09``Erikaaanyhow, I have a mission to complete, I'm just fixing enough to complete it.
14:36.22brlcadshame really, most folks would really really like to use isst if it just worked out of the box and you could, oh say, pass it a.g file and have it display
14:36.43``Erikheh, yeah
14:37.23brlcadas it is, you have to fuss with the compile, fuss with a conversion, fuss with a config, fuss with running it (probably the easiest aspect)
14:37.26``Erikif we had reliable tesselation, burning some space to have .g files with both csg and triangles would be awful attractive
14:38.00``Erikor fast tesselation *shrug*
14:38.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1675 files in 81 dirs): update copyright to 2007
14:38.20brlcadopenNURBS might actually help there
14:38.44brlcadit seems to include most of the functionality to handle NMG processing
14:38.47``Erikhrmmmm,
14:39.06brlcadwhether it works or not, or how well or how fast is another question altogether of course
14:39.17``Erikso having primitive/csg geometry and tnurbs in the file? then tesselate the tnurbs?
14:39.18brlcadbecause on paper, librt's nmg stuff does everything too
14:39.34brlcadjust not robust
14:39.42brlcadyeah, something like that
14:39.48``Erikhehehe, yeah, curley brackets and dropped regions out the wazoo, yes
14:39.58brlcadmore of a dual representation where the primitives/csg would be stored on disk
14:40.23brlcadtrimmed nurbs or some more generic brep form would just be another primitive as usual
14:40.26``Erikmy uneducated gut feeling is that csg->tnurb might be necessarily expensive
14:40.46brlcadbut each primitive would have the (dual-rep) capability of describing itself as a brep spline surface
14:41.08brlcadthen we just need a means to evaluate arbitrary csg on brep spline to spline surfaces
14:41.10``Erikand when ya measure time vs space, disk space is pretty damn cheap
14:42.10brlcadcsg->csg tnurb would be practically immediate, eval'd tnurb->facets is also nearly immediate
14:42.19brlcadevaluating the csg is what takes time
14:42.51``Erikok, I'm assuming that the represented tnurb geometry is post csg... no overlaps
14:42.53brlcadi.e. going from csg tnurb->eval'd tnurb  (or what we presently do with csg->facets)
14:43.09brlcadyou can have before or after, without overlaps
14:43.41brlcadjust a matter of how do you carve up those spline surfaces, make new surfaces, so you can get rid of the booleans
14:44.11``Erikyeah, my mind was already on the assumption that if you want to deal with tnurbs, you want to deal with the post-csg tnurbs, so you'd want to cache those to disk
14:44.12brlcadthat'll be the hardest part, but it's not intractable .. you're only dealing with one surface/object type
14:44.39brlcadif they can't be evaluated on the fly, you would want to cache them to disk regardless
14:44.52brlcadalong with the facets even potentially
14:45.12brlcaddepends just how fast those two steps take
14:45.43brlcadother cad systems seem to be able to do both on the fly
14:45.57brlcadi.e. within a second or two with moderately complex parts
14:46.14brlcadthat's more than reasonable if we can get that far
14:48.57``ErikI'm under the impression that we like to load entire complex systems up when other cad systems are severely limited in how much they can have in memory at any given time
14:50.43``Erikare files being explicitely skipped in your copyright update script?
14:51.21brlcadyes
14:53.42brlcadthere are a lot of files we don't have the copyright on to be changing
14:54.11brlcadyou have an example of something not updated that should have?
14:54.13``Erikah, I found several that have "United States Government" as the copyright holder
14:55.20``Eriklemme clean things up a little and commit these...
14:55.27``Erikthen you'll see which ones in the email or whatever
14:56.09brlcadyeah, on a quick glance, I see it missed at least 90 for some reason
14:57.11brlcadand the list i'm looking at, there's a reason on most of them .. like missing headers
14:57.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: use dates formatting to extract the year instead of awk...
14:58.40brlcadsh/copyright.sh is what updates
14:59.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 5 dirs): update copyright to 2007
14:59.50``Erikmisc/macosx/Resources/License.rtf misc/win32-msvc/vers.vbs misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc src/gtools/g_qa.1
15:00.35brlcadahh yeah, it specifically ignores misc
15:00.59*** part/#brlcad KeenEars (n=opera@eat.ssau.ru)
15:01.43brlcadshould probably add misc though and just exclude the known 3rd party
15:06.14``Erikinteresting that it missed g_qa.1
15:06.26brlcadyeah, implies something is wrong in the file
15:09.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.rc: copyright on the whole starts back in 1984
15:11.03brlcadvers.vbs is that vb script I was talking about
15:11.25brlcadjust need similar ones for the other scripting activities the build process assumes
15:16.37``Erik*nod*
15:23.25``Erikshould do just fine, provided the semantics of the file aren't corrupted...
15:24.09``Erikfile that says "this data is at offset X" and change the character count..
15:24.36brlcadhmm, extended regex foo too, something like \(([cC])|?\)
15:25.45``Erikthat depends on the breed of sed
15:25.50``Erikthe sed in fbsd supports it
15:26.03``ErikI'd be surprised if the one in irix does... not sure on leenewx
15:26.08``Eriksed -E
15:26.39brlcaddon't really care about portability, this is once a year :)
15:26.52brlcadi think i can find a bsd or linux box at least once a year
15:27.01``Erikaight *shrug*
15:27.13``Erikgnu sed does NOT do extended (or 'modern' regex)
15:27.55``Erikmight do a test to verify that sed -E behaves like you expect it to behave and exit with an error if it doesn't, just in case someone else tries it or ya forget :D
15:29.28brlcadtrying to see if the match works at all for starters
15:29.40brlcador I can just fix the one use of that blasted character
15:32.39``Erikoption+g, amusing
15:37.19brlcadah, even better, just allow for an optional character
15:43.55brlcadwoot, that'll do
15:48.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh:
15:48.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: add support to detect/convert \a9 copyright symbols, convert them to (c) for
15:48.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: consistency just like everything else. also, more importantly, add the ability
15:48.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: to use this script to process individual files (e.g. in conjunction with find).
15:48.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: if there's an argument list, that is what will be processed. otherwise, it will
15:48.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: do the usual task of processing everything under the src root that it recognizes
15:48.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: (and that isn't exempted).
16:01.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/ (cup.sh Makefile.am mged.html mged1.html cup): it's a shell script, so call it cup.sh instead for consistency
16:02.27``Erikwhat about the generated scripts? like, uhhh, brlman/awf
16:03.24brlcadthose are installed commands where the fact that they're shell scripts is just an implementation detail
16:03.43brlcadplus that was just a doc script
16:04.58brlcadmost of the installed user-scripts are unsuffixed, brlman/awf/benchmark/archer/rtwizard
16:09.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: oop, the dotfiles thing caused automatic to go all empty list crazy. remove that contraint, but add a slew of other exemptions of stuff it should be able to safely ignore
17:51.55Maloeran``Erik, about these 4-5 functions to fill up for a rayforce interface, I hope I can expect these to be friendly with processing of rays in batches and the concept of ray sources?
17:57.17``Erikum
17:57.21``Erikunfortunately, not very
17:58.19MaloeranLook, the rayforce interface is somewhat peculiar and it has to be used intelligently to provide good performance
17:58.31``Erikextern RtTrace*         rt_shoot (RtGeometry *geom, RtHandle hp);
17:58.31``Erikextern double           rt_getsize (RtGeometry *g);
17:58.31``Erikextern bool             rt_getbox (RtGeometry *g, VmVect *min, VmVect *max);
17:58.31``Erikextern RtGeometry*      rt_constructor (RtGeomInfo *info, int info_needed, NmPool *comp_names);
17:58.38MaloeranIt's quite flexible, but one has to understand and consider how it works
17:59.12``ErikRtHandle holds exactly 1 ray
17:59.23MaloeranThat is very, very bad.
17:59.28``Erikobviously
17:59.39``ErikI'll talk to lee about adjusting the interface
18:00.06``Erikthis is the interface ripped almost directly from the "target app"
18:00.19MaloeranPlease consider the concept of shooting many rays from a single point. Failing that, consider "displacements" from a fixed origin for the bundle of rays
18:00.23``Erikif we can unstupid THEIR code, life is grand... but it's not mine to fix...
18:00.26MaloeranThe smallest the displacements, the better
18:00.37``Erikthe normal vehicle of behavior is orthographic
18:00.53``Erikwith randomly scattered secondaries
18:01.45MaloeranAll right, are the secondary rays traced from the intersection points of previous rays?
18:02.07``Erikbut it's all good, adrt assumes perspective projection and bundles for performance, and you are competing on level ground
18:02.25``Erikummmm
18:02.28``ErikI'm not sure
18:02.45``ErikI *THINK* they assume either the 'entry' or 'exit' point of a "solid" part
18:03.05MaloeranTypical example : ray sources, from which to shoot secondary rays, can be updated to match the intersection points of primary rays
18:03.07``Erikand in behavior, it's very similar to shooting, y'know, a few hundred scattered refraction rays
18:03.38``Erikthe secondaries are emitted from an origin on the primary ray. the direction is generally in a similar direction.
18:03.40MaloeranUpdating ray sources at intersection points would be a lot faster than resolving origins for secondary rays constantly
18:03.46``ErikI d'no if it's safe to say any more
18:04.44``Erikbut it's ok, this program I'm writing will be the thing used to prove the letter of the contract
18:05.03``Erikif THEY choose to use your software stupidly
18:05.05``Erikthat's all ok
18:05.25``Erikallz ya gotta do is the 5x adrt bit, and we have a little wiggle room to prove or disprove that
18:05.26``Erik:)
18:05.29MaloeranI don't know if it's going to be 5 times faster if it's constrained within such a poor interface
18:05.58``Erikif we can make the argument that the interface makes it impossible, but an alternate interface fixes it, we can go that route, I guess *shrug* I d'no
18:08.20MaloeranNo ray bundling, no intelligent management of ray sources and displacements, no SSE ; it's going to crawl :)
18:08.45MaloeranAnyhow, we can try.
18:11.29MaloeranIf you are going to shoot one ray at a time, at least make it rely on a callback so I can buffer up and process in batches
18:11.57MaloeranAnd the library manages threading internally, all calls should come from the same thread
18:12.43Maloeran( Unless we quickly make a fix for a public blocking non-threading one-ray-at-a-time function, most inefficient )
18:14.21``Erikhopefully I'll have it functioning in a form next week
18:14.39``Erikwhich will take maybe another week to push through the dreaded "form 1" process
18:14.41``Erikto get you the code
18:14.50``Erikjust givin' ya a heads up :)
18:15.36MaloeranOr I could still write the interface without access to your code
18:16.07``Erikyou need teh structs
18:16.19``Erikand those have to be cleared, since they're from a non-distributable source
18:16.53MaloeranHighly sensitive structs, eh? :) All right
18:17.51``ErikI think I've appropriately cleaned them up
18:18.07``Erikand it's not so much the structs as it is the comments
18:18.12``Erikand variable names
18:21.13MaloeranAm I allowed to ask what the the getsize() and getbox() functions are for?
18:21.41``Erikgetsize() is the diameter (I think, maybe radius) of the bounding sphere
18:21.50``Erikgetbox is the bounding axis aligned cube, I think
18:22.14``Erikwhen you get the code, it'll have the appriopriate shtuff filled in for adrt and BRL-CAD librt
18:22.14MaloeranI'm not quite following, what sphere and cube, what's the purpose?
18:22.28``Eriknot entirely sure why both are needed, actually... *shrug*
18:22.35``Erikbut if you have one, an estimate of the other is trivial
18:23.02MaloeranFine, though I don't see the function of either at the moment :)
18:23.04``ErikI know my metaball thingy primarily uses the sphere for computation, but the box for the kd-tree
18:23.11``Erikwell
18:23.16``Eriksuppose I have geometry of an unknown size
18:23.21``Erikand I want to make a picture
18:23.28``Erikautomatically placing the camera
18:23.32MaloeranOh, bounding box and sphere for the whole scene?
18:23.39``ErikI have to know how big it is so I know how far away
18:23.40MaloeranOkay, very simple stuff
18:23.46``Erikbounding for the specified geometry...
18:23.55``Erikmight be the whole 'scene', might be a subset...
18:24.28``ErikI think the killer part you'll have to deal with, the real rough bit, is when you shoot a ray, you have to return the list of brlcad regions/components in order with in/out points
18:24.59``Erik(and things like in and out normals, thickness, curvature, possibly GIFT material... )
18:25.48MaloeranRayforce will return the ordered hits, it shouldn't be too much trouble from there
18:26.35``Erikgetting you this code is my #1 priority at work... once you have it, you'll know how to craft rayforce to satisfy this benchmark...
18:27.23MaloeranI can already say that this interface will cut performance by a factor of 3-6
18:27.28``Erikheh, when trying to figure out who's gonna do some drudgework, I escaped it cuz of this... so jlo is doing the drudge instead of the tnurbs (which are considered "highly important" by money throwing fucktards)
18:27.33``Erikyes
18:27.34``ErikI know
18:27.37``Erikand it's horrible
18:28.10``Erikbut adrt is under the same artificial stupid
18:28.11MaloeranEheh, I'm glad to hear that :)
18:28.17MaloeranRight.
18:28.22``Erikand if we rework the comparison, to be fair, we have to rework it for adrt, too
18:28.33``Erikso, y'know, I wouldn't sweat it at this time
18:28.57``Erik5x is an arbitrary number, and we can be reasonably arbitrary in comparison
18:28.58``Erik:/
18:29.45MaloeranIt's not like adding coherency management, SSE processing and ray bundling to adrt would be that simple
18:30.14``Erik<- anal and pedantic, would have specified an interface and platform and set of specific cases and said 'total compute time'
18:30.17MaloeranAnyhow, I get the picture. Let's just hope it's naturally 15-30 times faster to reach that 5x thing :)
18:30.22``Erikadrt has ray coherency and bundling
18:30.31``Erikit's being skipped in s2
18:30.52``Erikit's stupid and wrong, ti's the equivelant of using read() and write() sending one byte at a time
18:31.09MaloeranSpecific cases that can be solved in the native way for all raytracers would have been far preferable
18:31.14``Erikany nonretard would use sendfile(), but *shrug*
18:31.14MaloeranExactly!
18:32.01``Eriks2 is a project I have no control over, but we go thte funding saying rayforce would make it faster
18:32.39``Eriktrust me, if I had permission to unfuck s2, it'd be several orders of magnitude faster and smaller right now.
18:32.39MaloeranSo it must be faster using their akward interface we can not change, I got it
18:32.44``Erikwell, technically, we didn't say anything about their interface
18:32.56``Erikbut given the purpose, it seems like a rational starting point for comparing
18:33.13MaloeranRight, we can compare accuracy at least
18:33.24``Erikthe big reason I chose it was because libtie itself does no segment list building. you are required to build segment lists. the only adrt code that does that is in s2
18:33.31``ErikI'm lazy *shrug*
18:33.42``Erikaccuracy is why I'm also wiring librt into it
18:34.35``Erikalso; my api expects the geometry conversion to be handled by the specific rt engine... in librt, it's trivial, it's the native format. in adrt, there's an explicit tesselation pass to get triangle soup
18:34.37MaloeranI'm still a bit concerned about the numerical precision of my weird ray-triangle intersection tests, I look forward to having this point clarified
18:34.54MaloeranI'll use that same triangle soup
18:34.57``Erikyou might need to crib some crap from the adrt/adrt.c file
18:35.44``Erikhmmm, I'm under the impression that if you're accurate within 5 digits, we're all good... but they also try to argue 64 bit ieee754/854 data being absolutely identical...
18:35.56MaloeranThat's absurd!
18:36.08``Erikso, y'know, don't sweat it, it's a political battle, and it'll be handled by lee and poor old bman
18:36.21MaloeranIdentical results on 64 bits will never occur from different techniques
18:36.38*** join/#brlcad cad07 (n=c90e90b1@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:36.45``Eriknope
18:37.13``ErikI'm under the impression that they're trying to cover their incompetence by clinging to shit like that, but quoting 5 digits for their own folley
18:37.25cad07hi
18:37.28Maloeran5 digits accuracy with float is reasonable
18:37.31``Erikbut that's a political battle. we'll take care of it. go do good things instead
18:37.35MaloeranGood afternoon Lee
18:38.18lalolaGood morning
18:38.25MaloeranOh, so that's where the bzflag.bz come from
18:38.40``Erikbzflag.bz is the same machine as brlcad.org
18:39.24``Erikhttp://irc.brlcad.org/ <-- will have people joining as cad[0-9]*@bz.bzflag.bz
18:40.19Maloeran*nods* By the way, if the segment list building code is the algorithm I have seen on a piece of paper at SURVICE, there's room for improvement
18:40.58``Erikit might be
18:41.05``ErikI think twingy wrote a whitepaper on it
18:41.22lalolawhy I cant join in other channel?
18:41.29lalolawith this cgi script
18:41.43``Erikyou're using the incredibly simplified java program, if you want real irc ability, use a real irc program
18:42.06lalolaIm in a closed network
18:42.07``Erikwhich, naturally, will depend on what OS you're using...
18:42.13``Erikhrm, sucks to be you? :D
18:42.17lalolaI already Am using proxy to access http
18:42.53lalolaI dont work with iptables now :/
18:44.01``Erikew, linux
18:44.37lalolaGNU/Linux
18:44.56lalolaI was wanting join in #debian-br ...
18:46.13``Erikmost java applets that emulate protocol programs (irc, ssh, etc) restrict where you can go
18:46.38lalolawell
18:49.23lalolabut thanks bye
19:08.24*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
19:48.57brlcadbzflag.bz isn't the same as "brlcad.org" -- that's an sf.net server, but irc.brlcad.org and ftp.brlcad.org are both bzflag.bz
19:55.20brlcadheh, complaining that our cgi:irc isn't open to any channel on the network, sounds like an asshat plea to abuse
19:57.52brlcadthere are bounding boxes/spheres around portions of a given model -- in a given solid model, it's comprised of various distinct parts aka regions
19:58.18brlcadsegments returned on a shotline aren't just in/out points, but id'd to identifiers for each region
19:59.16brlcadfor each given region, the user code can put either the bounding sphere or bounding box to use for some purpose (that you generally don't care about, but have to provide those bounds regardless as part of the interface)
20:01.01brlcadjust as an example, they might want use the bounding spheres on a set of regions to get a real fast rough volume estimate, or determine if two regions/parts even have the capacity to potentially overlap each other
20:27.20*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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21:05.30``ErikKelsey Grammer and Cary Elwes, it's gotta be god
21:05.45``Erikand I'm told it's more or less right, just not as horrible as the truth o.O
21:06.57``Erikholy mcfuckingshit, john mcginley, too (dr cox from scrubs)
21:26.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: clean up the progress printing a little bit, remove the sed duplication and false modification report on current-year copyrighted files. ws too.
21:27.04brlcad``Erik: it's pretty good, I imagine it was only worse but a good story regardless
21:29.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/viewdiff.sh: header should say viewdiff.sh since it was renamed, not recheck.sh
21:35.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: header cleanup
21:44.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/cakeinclude.sh: obsolete script from prior build system
21:45.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: obsolete script from prior build system
21:47.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (3 files in 3 dirs): consistency on the (c), keep it simple
21:51.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/facetall.sh: header and footer
21:52.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/gforge.sh: header and footer
21:55.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am ldAix.sh): remove obsolete ldAix.sh build helper script. it's libtool's job now.
22:08.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: init var safety
22:27.23*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753792.dsl.bell.ca)
22:38.41MaloeranGrah... It is amazingly hard to debate reality and cognitive perceptions with an islamist fundamentalist, it's terrible
22:39.23MaloeranI got to stop jumping in these debates whenever a believer joins programming channels, which strangely happens very often
22:40.23dtidrowheh
22:40.48dtidrowhow do you feel about vi vs. emacs?  ;-)
22:41.18louipcemacs makes more sense kind of
22:42.09louipcwell, I guess I haven't gotten the feel of vi yet. emacs is more natural
22:42.37dtidrowI was being rhetorical
22:42.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: rm -f
22:43.14louipcuh oh!
22:44.18Maloeranvim!... and nedit :)
22:45.11MaloeranI'm just astonished at how religious brainwashing can completely cripple reasonning capabilities, the rational mind is... completely broken
22:50.58``Erikemacs is only more natural if you have cognative ability and attention spen of a mildly retarded squirrel.
22:51.23``Erikpentagon wars was a decent 'nuff movie, I may send a bulk email on monday... I'm glad leebert loaned it to me
22:53.28``Erikon religious brainwashing in regards to emacs vs vim... both editors are phenomenal in capability, but it's our duty to pursue extending our ability as much as we can. Yes, there is a learning curve, but the increased productivity is not dismissable. Anyone who does NOT try to learn at least one of the two seriously has the kind of shortsightedness that leads to stagnation of real ability.
22:53.31``ErikIMHO.
23:04.44*** join/#brlcad cad55 (n=4316dc41@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:05.15cad55hi
23:05.30MaloeranGreetings
23:05.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: add support similar to that added to copyright.sh that allows the script to also work on individual files or with find. the script now also processes a backup just in case there are no changes made.
23:07.15cad55I was wondering on google and saw that brlcad might feed my curiosity into the cad stuff on linux
23:07.33cad55I am using a gentoo derivative, sabayonlinux, and was wondering what should i do to compile brl-cad  
23:08.01dtidrowwhat exactly do you want to do with a CAD package?
23:08.05MaloeranIf it's similar enough to Gentoo, downloading the source and compiling would do
23:08.42Maloeran( You probably already have the other packages required )
23:09.16cad55ok,,I want just want to play with it and see what stuff it can do...I am fed up with windowze and tired of downloading pirated software
23:09.46cad55I heard a lot about blender but it seems that it does not have cad features
23:10.05cad55for example, I would like to try to model my house here in the us :)
23:11.08cad55brl-cad architecture supports plugins or modules?
23:11.25MaloeranThe user interface might be a bit lighter than what you are used to, it should be fine if you like command lines
23:11.39MaloeranYet, depending on the purpose of the houes model, Blender might be more appropriate
23:12.07Maloeranhouse* model, even
23:13.38cad55I see..well I kind of start to like the command line and like I said I am bored with windowze so after feedling with  linux for about three years it's time for a change
23:13.56cad55what would you say about q-cad and the features in brl-cad (never mind the UI)
23:14.28louipccad55: I think the commands are little programs in themselves, so are all the file import functions
23:15.47Maloeranbrlcad or Erik could probably tell you much more about CAD design and software, I'm just the guy working on the next raytracing engine
23:15.49louipccad55 completely different programs, brl-cad doesn't think in terms of lines, faces, edges.
23:16.26louipconly solid 3d geometry
23:17.50cad55can you give me just a simple example of a command to do 2d square with 20x20 -10 ofset from Z?
23:17.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: prior.sh missing from dist
23:17.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/prior.sh: add header and footer; embed the psql sql statement directly
23:18.37cad55ok, make it 3d then if possible
23:19.15louipcIt's been awhile since I've actually used it but I'm pretty sure you can do that in one line
23:19.26cad55I mean I compiled some programs before, blacklisted drivers, troubleshooted my grubs and lilos but i woudl like to have an idea of the sintax
23:20.13cad55ok, then I will give it a go and then will post the results
23:20.15cad55thanks all
23:20.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/prior.psql: remove the unnecessary script -- directly embedded into prior.sh now
23:21.09louipcdid you get the MGED tutorial pdf?
23:22.30brlcadcad55: brl-cad's main modeler is called "mged" - there's a fairly comprehensive introductory pdf on the website (that louipc is referring to)
23:23.07brlcadif you're interested in a 2D modeling, there are other tools more suited (like qcad, which has features more in line with other drafting tools like autocad)
23:23.46louipcqcad is about the only one I know
23:23.51brlcadbrl-cad's design is more 3D-centric similar under the hood to packages like solidworks, pro/e, and unigraphics (though with a consirably less polished user interface)
23:24.21louipchehe I would love to get something other than qcad
23:24.27louipcmaybe...
23:24.34brlcadthe interface is quite extentible and supports plugins, as is the entire brl-cad package (contains more than 400 tools related to modeling, rendering, signal processing, etc)
23:25.17brlcadwe have way more of the foundation needed for a drafting program than even qcad, but pretty much no GUI support for creating/editing from that approach
23:25.29brlcadwould make a great project for someone with initiative
23:25.42louipcreally!? that's great
23:26.34brlcadmost of brl-cad's main deficiencies are in the GUI -- the geometry and rendering engine underneath is quite robust/stable/extensive
23:27.28louipcso brlcad can look at things both as pure solids as well as line, face etc..?
23:28.50brlcadlouipc: there's support in brl-cad for creating/representing those 2D entities, though again -- very minimal gui support for doing anything with them
23:28.57louipchmm I think I'll start by making a package for my distro hah
23:29.16cad55I see..you have a good foundation and walls but somebody needs to still do the windows and doors :)
23:29.40louipcbrlcad that's good I thought that the internals were only pure solids. but there is the bag of triangles... I thought there might be something behind that
23:29.47brlcadthe support was mainly added so that for converted solid models that were modeled with sketches and extrusions, they could be converted to a suitable preserving format in brl-cad land
23:30.23brlcadcad55: not a bad analogy :)
23:31.09louipcdo you think it's possible to analyse those formats to be converted into pure solid instead of bag of triangles?
23:31.51brlcadmaybe also like, the land was purchased, foundation layed, structure in place, all materials on hand with diagrams on what needs to be done -- but only a couple builders so progress chugs along at its own pace
23:32.08brlcadlouipc: that depends entirely on the converter being used
23:32.25louipcwell I mean to write a converter to do that
23:32.43dtidrowand none of the builders are very good at finish work  ;-)
23:32.57brlcadthe dxf-g converter, for example, will bring in 2D entites as brl-cad 2D entities (not triangles)
23:33.08brlcadthough that's a relatively recent feature addition
23:33.11louipcI notice solidworks can import an IGES file and it asks if you want 'feature recognition'
23:33.31brlcadalas, IGES is dying
23:33.36louipcthen it seems to do some real nice work
23:33.52louipcoh? what's the next big thing?
23:34.27brlcadSTEP
23:35.20brlcadthat's our next major converter task .. monumental task to say the least, one of the most complex formats to ever be created -- but it's an ISO standard and pretty much fully replaces IGES
23:35.30louipcah yeah that's the ISO one
23:36.00louipccustomers will send my company either IGES or Parasolid models though
23:36.08brlcadthat's a task that's going to take several man-years to implement fully
23:36.31louipcI looked at STEP ages ago but I don't see anyone using it, I like the idea though
23:36.36brlcadnothing preventing anyone from taking the existing iges importer and improving it though
23:37.04louipcyea, except being too busy ;)
23:37.21brlcadstep has been under development for a few years, but only starting to take off within the past couple -- slow adoption, but IGES is dead so it is pretty much guaranteed to eventually occur
23:37.54louipcyeah
23:51.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (header.sh footer.sh): add recognition of python
23:52.49louipcCIA-5 is showing us the TODO list?
23:54.36brlcadCIA shows actual commits to the source code as they happen
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070121

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070121

00:00.49louipcah that's neat
00:04.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: recognize arbitrary script exec identifier lines, regardless of /usr/bin, /bin, etc
00:06.28*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:06.28*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
00:10.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/scripts/ (6 files): apply the standard header and footer, more to come
00:11.37louipccompiling...
00:12.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/ (bench.c bench.h main.c): standard header and footer
00:50.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 2 dirs): standard header and footer cleanup
00:51.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (68 files in 4 dirs): standard header and footer cleanup
00:53.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (35 files in 9 dirs): standard header and footer cleanup
00:59.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/patch/ (pull_comp.sh pull_solidsub.sh): add bsd headers to helper scripts
01:12.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_X24.c: header cleanup, happens to be a sun file, so integrate the bsd-style license proper.
01:26.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ap.c:
01:26.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: dept of energy is part of the u.s. government and while there ability to claim
01:26.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: copyright back in '89 is dubious, since they are government they can fall under
01:26.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: the same significant conversion and copyright assignment conditions that was
01:26.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: initially required. so either way, the header can be cleaned up.
04:46.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (364 files in 14 dirs): ugh, what tedium. put some effort towards cleaning up the doxygen labels and making the headers more consistent. also exclusively using @ for doxygen instead of \ to try to keep things more consistent.
05:52.08louipcstill at it eh?
06:49.01brlcadpretty much
06:49.08brlcadthe work never ends
06:55.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_wood.c: header cleanup
06:58.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/turb.c: header cleanup
06:58.35louipcdo you have a list of third party packages required for building and running brlcad?
07:03.49brlcadall required all included as part of the distribution
07:03.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nurb_solve.c: implicit assignment
07:03.57brlcadthey're in the src/other directory
07:04.47brlcadby default, they are only compiled if a suitable system 3rd party package is not found, though you can force compilation of individual ones on/off
07:05.16louipcah ok that's handy
07:05.17brlcade.g. --enable-everything will tell configure to not have any external dependencies
07:05.48brlcadplus, there's a report at the end of configure that itemizes
07:05.58louipcbecause a lot of other apps make you go fetch other packages elsewhere that you need
07:06.13brlcadyep
07:06.34brlcadthat's been a long-standing position of the project since its inception to specifically not *require* that
07:07.24brlcadwe give you everything you need (except a compiler and shell of course)
07:08.32louipchehe, I wonder if I should still include it in a dependencies list for a distro package
07:09.31brlcadah, for packaging, it's usually best to just make most of them dependencies
07:12.57louipcwhat is java used for?
07:13.00brlcadpresently cannot do that for tcl/tk due to path lookup issues, and there are a couple dependencies that aren't in all the packaging systems (like the newly added openNURBS, which you can ignore)
07:13.27brlcadyou can fully ignore java, sdl, and python
07:13.35louipcah still in dev?
07:13.36brlcadthey are simply API bindings
07:13.48louipcok
07:13.56brlcadnot critical and actually not used by anything we ship
07:14.36brlcadadrt will auto-disable due to sdl and python (and that's perfectly normal)
07:20.17brlcadfor a dependencies list, probably zlib, png, jove, regex, termlib, and utah raster toolkit and the autotools if you want it to prep the build system from scratch (autoconf 2.52+, autoconf 1.6+, libtool 1.4.2+)
07:21.02brlcadthough the autotools are certainly optional from a source tarball
07:22.41louipcyeah
07:23.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/raydebug.tcl: bsd header
07:31.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: Questionable whether they actually hold copyright or are simply being given credit. declare the more flexible bsd terms for now.
07:33.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtermio/ (termio.c termio_win32.c): add missing lgpl header
07:41.29CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/main.c: missing header
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07:47.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ (7 files): add missing headers, bsd license
07:52.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (points.tcl facetize_all_regions.tcl expand_comb.tcl): add missing header/footer
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20:11.56louipchmm
20:13.18brlcadindeed
20:38.10louipcI should join the devel mailing list I guess
20:38.40brlcadnoise fluctuates massively .. might go months without a message, and then two dozen in a day
20:38.45brlcaddepends on the topic and what's going on
20:38.53louipchehe not bad
20:40.04louipcwhat are the brl-cad data resources supposed to be?
20:40.49louipcjust the README files eh?
20:41.11brlcadthey are mostly the documentation and tclscripts (much of mged's functionality)
20:41.46louipcI get an error that they can't be found even though it's looking in the correct path
20:41.55louipcbut mged still seems to function
20:42.22brlcadon windows or elsewhere?
20:42.30brlcadon windows it's a red herring
20:42.56brlcadelsewhere indicates some tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidgets issue usually
20:43.45louipclinux
20:44.03louipcyeah I also get a tk not found in the brlcad/lib dir
20:44.16louipcbut it was compiled to use the system's lib
20:45.26brlcadthat would be why you get the error
20:45.43brlcadi mentioned that there are pathing issues with tcl/tk using system libs still
20:45.48brlcadnot major, but annoyances like that
20:45.55brlcadhaven't been cleaned up
20:46.26louipcah right
20:46.54brlcadfeel free to look into them and fix them! :)
20:47.10louipchehe I'm not at that stage yet
20:47.14brlcadthe gentoo, freebsd, debian, ubuntu, and fink folks would love you ;)
20:47.23louipcthough I really would be glad to
20:47.29louipc;)
20:47.58brlcadwe've got a pending integration on several of those systems that isn't into stable simply because of the tcl/tk issue
20:52.09louipcyeah I'm trying to package it for archlinux
20:52.46brlcadcool
20:52.47louipcit seems to work OK for now
20:53.02brlcad'benchmark' runs?
20:53.11louipcyea
20:53.18brlcad(careful, it'll create a lot of files in current dir)
20:53.25louipcI noticed hehe
20:53.53brlcadI should add a cleanup transcript for it
20:54.31louipcor stick them into /tmp?
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070122

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070122

00:29.11*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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16:09.14brlcadjust about finished with all of the updates for the new license terms
16:19.13brlcadall documentation that was previously gfdl/gpl dual licensed is being simplified to the bsd documentation license
16:20.41brlcadall gpl binary code is changing to the lgpl to facilitate conversion/migration of application code to libraries (which may only be lgpl)
16:20.53brlcadCOPYING will have all the details, but wanted to give a heads up
16:28.10``Erikit's all assigned copyright so'z ya don't gotta go through the legwork of getting everyones written ok, right?
16:28.27brlcadthat's right
16:29.08brlcadwhich is also why that constraint was required
16:29.48brlcads/was/is/
16:34.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs):
16:34.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: define the BRLCADBUILD preprocessor symbol
16:34.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: remove misleading multibyte-character support
16:38.52brlcadI created the BSD Documentation License, based off of the FreeBSD Documentation License -- which basically is just using project agnostic terms like what is used in the BSD License and not being specific to SGML
16:41.54``Erik?
16:43.16brlcadrossberg's commit
18:12.01Maloeranhttp://www.getafirstlife.com/
18:12.38MaloeranParody of that Second Life thing, for those who really aren't into games
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21:59.09louipchahaha
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070123

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070123

01:13.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1348 files in 82 dirs): (log message trimmed)
01:13.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: Sweeping license updates. Documentation is fully relicensed to the BSD
01:13.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: Documentation License (a minor variant of the FreeBSD Documentation License and
01:13.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: BSD License). All GPL code (mostly application code) is converted to the LGPL
01:13.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: and now also specifically declares version 2.1, revoking the blank check to the
01:13.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: FSF. The intent of these sweeping changes are to simplify the licensing terms
01:14.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: and increase overall flexibility of use, both externally (to users for their
01:14.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (409 files in 16 dirs): (log message trimmed)
01:14.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: Sweeping license updates. Documentation is fully relicensed to the BSD
01:14.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: Documentation License (a minor variant of the FreeBSD Documentation License and
01:14.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: BSD License). All GPL code (mostly application code) is converted to the LGPL
01:14.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: and now also specifically declares version 2.1, revoking the blank check to the
01:14.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: FSF. The intent of these sweeping changes are to simplify the licensing terms
01:14.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: and increase overall flexibility of use, both externally (to users for their
01:16.27``ErikO.O
02:10.42MaloeranConfirmed by Mark, they did look into non-immigration visas too. Oh well, I guess it's time to get that degree paper thing
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10:02.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/libregex/libregex.dsp:
10:02.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: not a BRL-CAD core library
10:02.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: remove misleading multibyte-character support
10:04.43clock_What does -a mean in pix-png? It seems to not have a manpage.
10:05.01clock_Turn upside down? Or 16-bit input?
10:07.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.dsp:
10:07.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: ignore opennurbs_zlib_memory.cpp in win32-msvc build
10:07.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: we do not need the openNURBS wrapper functions zcalloc() and zcfree() since we're just letting zlib do it's own thing
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11:49.46brlcadnoir:~ morrison$ man brlcad/src/util/pix-png.1 | grep autosize -a     autosize the input file to determine file image height and width
11:56.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: write up a summary of the recent sweeping license changes. i.e. describe gpl->lgpl and gfdl/gpl->bdl as well as the motvations, impact, and intent.
11:56.39brlcadbasically -a means "try to figure out how big the file is", which is only useful if your image has "standard" common dimensions and it guesses correctly.
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14:08.03``Erikheh
14:45.20``Erikeh?
17:21.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Java Partition objects now include entrance and exit surface normals
17:49.39clock_lol Java
17:49.48clock_and BRL-CAD goes downhill too :)
18:15.39MaloeranWoah, there's a Java interface for librt o.O
18:17.43MaloeranAh yes, it's for MUVES of course
18:19.33MaloeranDon't worry clock_, I'll try not to let anyone write a Java interface for the new raytracer :)
18:24.38brlcadclock_: that's been in there for several years, jni wrapper to a subset of librt
18:26.07brlcadMaloeran: good luck -- that's actually the next generation muves 3 there that uses the jni interface, not muves-s2
18:26.49brlcadbut then with that interface, there's a *lot* more room for flexibility and marshalling of data in and changing/defining the api
18:27.28brlcadthat's certainly not on this year's agenda I'd have to guess though
18:27.57Maloeranbrlcad, it's just that it implies performing the "shading" in Java ; which, as you know, will make performance collapse
18:50.47``Erikthe 'shading' being done in the C variant has no performance, so there's a possibility that a java version may be faster...
18:51.12``Eriknot the one actually being worked on, but *A* version might be...
18:51.13``ErikO:-)
19:34.09MaloeranErik, can I "safely" assume floats are always 4 bytes and doubles 8 bytes? ( flipping endianess of floats between nodes )
19:36.14MaloeranIt checks if the floating point encoding is the same between the platforms of course, but I'm wondering if different widths exist
19:50.21``ErikI don't think the C spec makes any assertion on width of float or double?
19:50.47``Erikhm, k&r is showing bunches of different bitwidths for, uh, ... all C types
19:51.14``ErikI can't think of a machine that doesn't use 32 and 64 bits ieee754/854 for float and double
19:51.23``Erika modern one, that is
19:51.42``ErikI mean, the honeywell 6000 used 36 and 72
19:55.58MaloeranAhah, cool.
19:56.23MaloeranI know that C doesn't garantee anything on floating point datatypes, but I still need to flip bytes somehow
19:56.59MaloeranI was wondering if some arch could have used 8 and 16 bytes floats/doubles, or the same width for both, etc.
19:57.23``Erikieee754 is the standard that describes bit packing and width
19:57.50``Erikmebbe, I saw mention of "half precision" floats using 16b that might be going into ieee754
19:57.55``Erikand quad precision with 128b
19:58.42``Erikum, intel, amd, and ibm/ppc are all ieee754 fpu equiped...
19:59.10MaloeranI have alternative paths to handle non-ieee floats anyhow, it's just the width I was wondering about
19:59.36``Erik(bear in mind, intel 386's usually came without an fpu, you have to shove in an x387 or get a 386dx for fpu hw, otherwise the c compiler faked it... common availability ofa n fpu is still pretty new)
19:59.49``Erikif it's not ieee754, then all bets are off on width
20:01.55MaloeranIt still requires storage in memory somehow, so it's likely to be some 2-4-8-16 bytes wideness
20:02.17``Erikmost machines are these days... several were 36 bit words
20:04.05``Erikhrm, looks like the cell uses ieee... at least, they say it supports their rounding modes
20:04.27``Erikand since ibm has the modules for ieee754 for their ppc's, I can't see them not reusing it
20:05.02MaloeranIt's really just the width I was concerned about, non-ieee is already handled
20:05.20``ErikI'm going to imagine that for the target hardware, it's ok to make those assumptions
20:05.36MaloeranThe graph preparation code plays right in the binary representation of floats/doubles, if it's IEEE
20:05.42``Erikieee specifies widths, so it's all good
20:05.43MaloeranRight, thanks
20:06.22``Erikdamn this code is retarded :/
20:07.04MaloeranAre you working on the raytracing comparison framework?
20:07.09``Erikyeah
20:08.12``Erikloading a 'geometry' file in this thing involves setting up a new tcl interpreter, shoving crap into it, then deleting it... instead of using the one already running
20:08.30MaloeranStrange...
20:08.44MaloeranBy the way, did Lee obtain the leave to complete his doctorate or not?
20:08.59``Erikit's still being looked at, heh
20:09.33``Eriksomeone had an ego writing this thing, too
20:09.49``Erikmebbe I should start doing that... struct mything_s *erik;
20:10.00MaloeranAhaha
20:11.02MaloeranHave you considered stepping up to take Lee's place, if he leaves? I think you said you weren't interested
20:12.34``Erik<-- just a lowly db2, that's a db4 position
20:12.58``Erikalso; I've pissed off the fucktards in mgmt as much as anyone else
20:13.22MaloeranAt the indian restaurant in Baltimore, Lee said he was looking for a competent person to take his place if he leaves, and he would gladly give it to someone like you
20:13.40MaloeranThough I don't know, I'm not too aware of what's going there
20:21.31``Erikheh, there's political bs in the way *shrug*
20:21.56``Erikplus I d'no think I'd be interested in ever doing what he does... meetings and ties ain't mah thang
20:24.15dtidrow_workwhat a heretical idea...  ;-)
20:28.35``Erikblah->destructor(blah); stinks, I'd rather see blah_destructor(blah); :/
20:29.16MaloeranUnless that destructor varies a lot based on the state of "blah", a function pointer does the job then
20:32.17``Erikblah is malloc'd, so you'd have to free() it after calling that destructor (or declare it on the stakc and pass &blah, which'd be much neater)
20:32.18``Erikimma rewrite all this shit in lithp one of thethe dayth
20:33.24MaloeranBy the way, is that blocking one-ray-at-a-time interface threaded? In that design, I would somewhat need an arbitrary pointer per thread to keep track of state on a per-thread basis...
20:34.00MaloeranSingle threaded, globals would do I guess
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20:35.25``ErikI was hoping to talk to lee about extending the interface to allow bundled shtuff
20:35.45``Erikand maybe feeding that back to the codemonkeys on the retarded side of the fence
20:35.55``Erikbut he's out today
20:37.40MaloeranBundled, non-blocking with callbacks, letting me do the threading would be nice. An interface allowing intelligent management of ray sources and displacements would be a blessing
20:38.11MaloeranAnyhow, I'll try to make up something that works no matter the interface you give me
20:39.00``Erik*shrug* the sales pitch was about integrating it into a specific program, so I'm gonna give you as close to their interface as I can
20:39.21``Erikchanging it much is going to get them up in a knot and either fighting it or not using it
20:54.25brlcadthe initial approach of getting it working with the interface that is already in place, for better or worse, is still the best first step for various reasons
20:55.45``Erik*nod*
20:55.59``Erikthis code makes me want to run away o.O
20:56.36brlcadadding non-blocking callbacks to librt might be the next step, showing how it would change interaction with librt .. get them to understand/adopt those changes
20:57.28brlcadnow how non-blocking results would actually be beneficial to the various algorithms the other codes are using is where I could easily see there being big problems
20:58.28``Eriktheir fundamental design is very serial and it hasn't aged well :/
20:58.50brlcadit makes sense for a ray intersection engine to answer asynchronously, but then ray-tracing in general can trivially compute asychronous as most of the computations are pretty much independent
20:59.48brlcadtheir design isn't independent, just about everything depends on something else, very serial, very much a "how thick is this region" and they can't really ask any more questions or do anything without guessing blinding until they get that answer
21:01.59brlcadpart of it is their design, but part of it is also the domain and approach of the algorithms (which predominantly is neither their responsibility or in their domain of expertise to be designing)
21:02.56``Erik<-- thinks it could be just as parallelizable as raytracing if it were described in terms of shading opposed to what they do now
21:03.06``Erik*shrug*
21:04.00``Erikyeah, each ray would be a fair bit heavier to compute, but if ya shoot 10,000 non-interacting primaries, it should theoretically scale linearly on a 10,001 cpu machine
21:04.32brlcadit probably could be, it correlates closely for some interactions
21:05.23brlcadbut you don't convince someone riding a bike about the benefits of driving a car by trying to force them into the seat and telling them how much their bike sucks ;)
21:05.53brlcadthere's plenty of downsides (from their perspective) that are entirely relevant
21:06.01MaloeranQuite right, slaming a car door in his face is so much more effective :)
21:06.17``Erikmal: your bike sucks
21:06.18``Erik:D
21:06.27dtidrow_workwho's 'they', btw?
21:06.38brlcadbrl-cad's primary user
21:06.54dtidrow_workheh
21:06.55brlcadthe vulnerability/lethality analysis developers
21:07.05``Erikheh, "vlad"
21:07.15``Erikdealing with the current crop sure does suck the life out of ya
21:07.20``ErikO:-)
21:07.25MaloeranNon-blocking sure would be nice, but especially, processing of rays in batches
21:09.37brlcadsure, Maloeran .. but when their entire problem-space is for a given algorithm is just a handful of dependent rays (done over and over, with dependencies at each step) .. it's like telling someone that's eating a salad at a local diner that they could have a much bigger salad if they bought in bulk at the local sams club
21:09.59``Eriks/analogies/ ...
21:10.01``Erik:D
21:10.01brlcadthey simply wouldn't care .. at all .. no matter how many heads of lettuce they can get for a buck
21:10.07MaloeranYes, I got the idea. If they need to know A before doing B, and B before doing C ; we should process 50000 A rays, followed by 50000 B and C
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21:10.40``Erikwe get the same issue (sorta), mebbe WORSE in the "hall of mirrors" scenario
21:11.16brlcadthey can be convinced to change their shopping and eating habits, but that's a long-term issue frankly pretty much outside the scope of the project
21:11.32MaloeranIf we imagine global illumination where rays bounce around constantly, we don't want to follow one single ray until the end
21:11.56MaloeranWe could process the first hit for 4000 rays, second hit for the same bouncing 4000 rays, etc.
21:12.28``Erikfor optical, that's fine..
21:12.45``Erikbut, y'knw, if an optical ray hits glass, you shoot two secondaries and mix the result
21:12.51``Erikthey shoot several hundred
21:13.27MaloeranI would have used probabilities to decide which way it goes, but that works too
21:13.50``Erik(but that's ok, they could do those several hundred in parallel, and they could do all their primaries in parallel)
21:13.53``Eriky'know, if they chose to
21:14.23``Erik*shrug*
21:14.39MaloeranSo the problem could be re-engineered, but it's not going to happen so we have to handle individual blocking rays. All right
21:15.25brlcadthis is like the bi-weekly bitch-fest isn't it?
21:15.34``Erikoh yeah
21:15.45``Erikif I gotta deal with their code, you'll hear me go off.
21:16.00``Erikand I gotta deal with their code.
21:16.08dtidrow_worklol
21:16.41brlcadyou know, nobody really disagrees -- and it's not even a new idea to question the way they do what they do and point out how it could/should be better .. been that way for decades
21:17.13brlcadbut it's mostly pointless, or at least impractical without actually working hand-in-hand with them for weeks to make a change happen (and that just isn't going to happen either anytime soon)
21:17.14MaloeranI realize you are tired of hearing it over and over, when you can't do much about it
21:17.23``ErikI know, and that's why everyone on the second floor is doing what they're doing
21:17.33brlcadright, and that worked out great
21:17.43brlcad:)
21:17.44``Erikbut, y'know, they're wrong, everyone's a moron, only I'm right :D *duck*
21:17.54dtidrow_worklol
21:18.22``Erik(my award winning attitude, that's why all the users adore me :D )
21:19.34dtidrow_workbrlcad: ``Erik's public lynching is next week, right?   ;-)
21:19.35brlcadattitude did more to the performance than java or the architecture itself ever did
21:19.56``Erikat least thte activity of exploration into what the old software does and why, with the documentation... that's a good thing.. a step in the right direction. when that's done, maybe an appropriate replacement can be started
21:20.52``Erikthe architecture when viewed from orbit seems ok, up close it's ... nonoptimal
21:22.04``Erikprobably a combo of too many people working on it too early and too much "ooh shiney" without the opportunity to assess and fix (or remove) some mistakes
21:22.05``Erik:)
21:22.22``Erik*gripebitchcomplain*
21:23.43brlcaddtidrow_work: nah, he does enough to torture himself by not speaking out (at least tactfully) when it matters .. but then he's also partially escaped the sphere of influence so he doesn't have to be involved as much
21:23.56dtidrow_workheh
21:24.50brlcadriight, you're about as tactful as a box of tacks
21:24.58brlcad:)
21:25.03``Eriktrained attack tacks
21:25.10dtidrow_workrofl
21:28.12MaloeranAs Caligula Ceasar walked among his lowly people anonymously, what a difference it would make if a manager were to listen here. He could even claim the ideas to "fix" these doomed projects were his own
21:33.00MaloeranErik, do you have any idea if Lee had plans for me after this task? No need to ask him, I'm just wondering because SURVICE apparently plans to keep me busy
21:33.03brlcadnot likely, because it's still not taking all the considerations into account that all become part of the issue.. mitigation of risks, not just doing things for academic purity (who the f*ck cares if it's not perfect, it does the job and does it well), the time/money/resources it would take to change it in a major way, documenting the new approach, *validating* that you really are 100% sure you didn't F-something up (the are-you-willing-to-bet-y
21:34.58``Erikmal: I'm sure he does, whether or not he can execute them is nto necessarily in his power... and competent coders aren't exactly a common beast, if they can figure out how to make money off of you, they'll try to do it *shrug*
21:35.34``Erikonce ya got a little paid experience on your cv, it's not hard to stay working *shrug*
21:36.27MaloeranWell sure, SURVICE has plans. I would personally prefer to work with you guys somehow, if you are fine with that
21:36.48``Erik<-- doesn't have any say in anything, one way or the other *shrug*
21:37.10brlcadif you had a specific task in mind, that would make selling a point a whole lot easier -- I have several in mind myself that I could raise
21:37.50``Erikhm, the an/fsq-7 was kinda big
21:38.17brlcadque?
21:39.10``Erikold computer, 2000m^2 floor space (half an acre)
21:40.03brlcadahh
21:40.05``Erikand wifi to boot
21:42.23brlcadMaloeran: the next thing I'd think would be cool to try and implement would be 1) a global illumination renderer using your tracer as a basis and 2) try to apply the same evaulation approach directly to implicit geometry
21:43.16brlcadand perhaps 3) a variety of shaders maybe implementing the renderman shader interface
21:43.42``Erikheh, to see how bad bmrt's butt can get whupped? :D
21:44.07brlcadmaybe for starters :)
21:44.51Maloeranbrlcad, the whole raytracer was initially designed to solve high-performance global illumination, so I would be very interested in that
21:45.07brlcadat the order of magnitude he's got, if it could be sustained, he could even potentially give some of the big names a run for their money
21:45.14MaloeranIt's really designed for that problem specifically. Though I wonder, what use would that be for the ARL?
21:45.28``Erikmaking pretty pictures?
21:45.39brlcadMaloeran: signal processing, signatures, pretty pictures, pretty animations, etc
21:46.24``Erikadrt has "rise" for path tracing, and it cooked a good bit of cpu time here for pretty pictures :)
21:46.26brlcadadd support for multispectral energies and you can suddently generate real radar, infrared, microwave images
21:47.01MaloeranAll right. SURVICE wants traversal of tetrahedron graphs with per-tetrahedron ray refraction implemented too
21:47.06brlcadrise was very much brute force, but very much "sells the cake" because the results look great
21:47.19brlcadew
21:47.20``Erikheh, yeah, and radiated energy distribution (like figuring out cell phone coverage, for example)
21:47.28brlcadsounds finite elementish
21:47.54brlcadi bet that's exactly what they want it for actually .. hm
21:48.07``Erikper-tetrahedron ray refraction? O.o
21:48.20MaloeranIt's to handle refraction of lasers mounted on aircrafts, going through layers of air of different density and temperature
21:48.25MaloeranIt refracts the rays a bit
21:48.27``Erikah
21:48.37``Erikinteresting way to cope with atmospherics
21:48.52MaloeranIt's rather nice, I hesitated for a very long time between a sector graph and a tetrahedron graph, so I'll be able to try the second way
21:49.04brlcadthat same technique can be used to propagate energies and forces, it's the basics of FEA
21:59.24*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
23:24.12Maloeran*yawn* Urgh, I didn't sleep well last night because I was too emotionally moved by the "death" of HAL-9000 in "2010: The year we make contact"
23:24.23``Erikheh, dork
23:25.49``ErikI'm dorky, too, though *shrug* read mccarthy's "the robot and the baby"
23:26.17``Erikhttp://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/robotandbaby.html
23:26.28MaloeranI haven't read that one, thanks
23:26.36``Erikit's very short
23:28.21``Erik(in case you're not brushed up, mccarthy was a move and shaker in the 50's and 60's with ai stuff... he was also the guy who axiomed the notion of programming computers and discovered lithp, invented things like function declarations and conditionals in programming, etc)
23:28.21MaloeranThinking about it, it's really weird to have even more altruistic feelings towards AIs than humans
23:28.42``Erikaiomized
23:28.45``Erikaxiomized
23:29.13MaloeranAh I see, thanks. I was mixing names with Clarke
23:31.35*** join/#brlcad cad34 (n=3ba7fd52@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:57.34``ErikThe C programming language requires that all memory be accessible as bytes, so C implementations on 36-bit machines use 9-bit bytes.
23:57.35``Erikneat
23:57.59``Erik(and a testament to how untrustworthy C's types are)
23:58.21brlcadthe sticky bit
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070124

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070124

00:02.17``Eriksimh doesn't seem to support the old 704 :/
00:06.51``Erikhuh, ancient sumer used base 6 math, and that's why our arbitrary day time crap is in multiples of 6 (60, 24)
00:10.23``Erikhttp://www.marginalpeople.com/base%20six.html
00:11.17``ErikDAMN simpsons for making me learn!!!
00:17.20*** join/#brlcad buttdude (n=cfd26a68@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:19.33louipcdid they only have six fingers or something?
00:22.12``Erikheh, I think they did it all on one hand
00:22.14``Erikwith no concept of 0
00:22.23``Erikso closed fist is 1, ...
00:22.35``Erik<-- points at the url
00:23.07``Erikwas watching simpsons, skinner made a comment about finally being able to buy math books without base six stuff... so I had to g00gle
00:23.09``Erik:D
01:01.14brlcadheh, i think i remember that episode
01:01.28brlcadis that the cromulent one?
01:08.16``Erikno, the one where the dogs gonna die from a twisted stomach
01:23.33brlcadahh yeah
02:02.20Maloeran``Erik, I really thought they used a base of 12
02:05.43*** join/#brlcad Rangar (n=dave@203.118.156.252)
02:06.46MaloeranWoah, what are you doing here Hal? :)
02:07.01``Erikhehehe
02:07.34RangarMal; I'm here to whip you guys in to shape ;)
02:08.01``ErikI d'no if this is the right place for that kinda weirdassed kink
02:08.06``Erikalso; none of us are sheep.
02:08.48Rangarhahaha
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15:48.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add another X11 test to verify that the X11 library is actually linking in.
15:57.54brlcadthat's not evil!
16:13.05brlcadhm.. that's odd -- the test fails, but _XNewModifiermap is in /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a
16:19.19``Erikon some machines, xmkmf goes funky so it doesn't build the X_LIBS variable right
16:19.31``Erikrhel64 is a prime example
16:20.08brlcadi'm not complaining, as I'd been trying to find an x11 test that correctly fails on os x
16:20.47brlcadthe base system provides headers and stub libs that effectively all work .. except at run-time, any X11 call causes a crash
16:21.07brlcadI hunted/tested dozens
16:21.16``Erikurm, "a crash"?
16:21.34brlcadyeah, app would crash on the x11 call
16:21.54``Erikerm, does it matter if X11.app is running?
16:22.18brlcadthat's what I mean, a system that doesn't have x11.app (it's not installed by default on some/most/new systems)
16:22.32brlcadbut it does have the headers and libs so everything links
16:22.38``Erikah
16:22.54brlcadwhat's odd is that your link test for _XNewModifiermap fails
16:23.11``Erikcould always test if uname is darwin and hunt for X11.app *shrug*
16:23.15brlcadbut it actually is in the library, at least I see it in nm
16:24.35brlcadi was entirely trying to avoid a system-specific test
16:24.35``Erikhm, does the X_LIBS line look decent?
16:24.35brlcadyeah, looks right: X_LIBS='-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 '
16:24.35``Erikhrm, *shrug*
16:24.41``Erikmebbe something to poke on after lunch... ya working from home today?
16:26.00brlcadnoir:~/brlcad morrison$ nm -g -o /usr/X11R6/lib/* 2>/dev/null | grep _XNewModifiermap
16:26.04brlcad/usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.a:ModMap.o: 000001ae T _XNewModifiermap
16:26.29brlcadfrom home all week
16:27.29brlcadagain, I'm not complaining.. I need/want the test to fail :-)  .. it's just entirely non-obvious why it's failing (which might mean it'll fail somewhere it shouldn't)
16:28.20``Erikhum
16:28.39``Erik(is nm an alias for otool -t?)
16:28.49``Erikor, -T, rather
16:29.27brlcader, not really .. it's the traditional nm
16:30.05``Erikyou got both my cphone # and lees, right? so you can verify dest once we figure it out? if you want to grab lunch...
16:30.18brlcadah, I just ate
16:30.22``Erikaight
16:30.27``Erik*shrug* later, dude :D
16:30.30brlcadlater
17:21.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
17:21.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: restructure the X11 checks so that if --without-x11 is provided, all of the
17:21.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: associated x11 checks are also disabled as well so we don't waste time testing
17:21.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: for things that will not be used. similarly, don't auto-add /usr/X11R6 to the
17:21.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: search paths or add the extra restart paths unless we're in automatic or yes
17:21.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: mode
17:49.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: similarly disable all the java checks if we're --without-java
18:00.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
18:00.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: clarify the license detail that this particular file, as part of the build
18:00.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: system, is BSD licensed. the lgpl was used before since this file is often
18:00.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: encountered first, but instead use the correct header and include a note about
18:00.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: how the license applied, referring to COPYING for more details.
18:30.37``Erikahhhh
18:41.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: similarly disable opengl/wgl checks if they are disabled via arg
18:49.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add an entire new section for documentation, listing various documents that are written or planned. include notes and status for some that are already completed but perhaps not yet in CVS
19:16.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: stray "
19:33.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/importFg4Section.c: copyright was acquired (by non-gov't) and later assigned to the government prior to open sourcing. remove old clause
19:37.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_grip.c: seems to be a header that didn't update correctly -- accept implicit assignment of copyright via former brl-cad agreement, while retaining authorship details even though GSI is sadly now defunct.
19:45.12``Erikhttp://www.mirrorimage.com/air/page04.html
19:49.54dtidrow_workbrlcad: any good at diagnosing X11 problems?
19:50.05dtidrow_workor anybody else, for that matter
20:13.09``Erikwhat kinda 'problems'?
20:19.15*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-44.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:20.15MaloeranAhah, online software engineering degrees are so depressing.  Introduction to Unix, HTML, XML, SQL, Basic, .NET? What the...
20:24.27dtidrow_work``Erik: it's dying deep down in an X call - XrmStringToQuark
20:24.27dtidrow_worksegfaulting
20:24.59MaloeranI thought I knew Xlib, but I don't remember seeing that function
20:25.00dtidrow_workwhich is about 13 call levels removed from the top X call  :-\
20:25.23dtidrow_workMaloeran: I'm guessing its very deep down in the bowels of xlib
20:26.25dtidrow_workthis seems to be rather old code, so the libs may have changed enough to break previously valid assumptions
20:28.05``Erikhuh, is the string being passed to it legit?
20:28.58dtidrow_workcan't tell - no decent debug info available that deep down
20:29.49``Erikhum, can't set a breakpoint at it and look at the argument?
20:30.01Maloeran*nods* It shouldn't segfault unless the address passed to it is unreadable
20:30.13dtidrow_work``Erik: nope, afaict
20:30.52dtidrow_workI can change the stack frame to that calling function, but there's no debug info at all available
20:30.59dtidrow_workat least with the libs I have installed
20:31.26dtidrow_workmeaning I can't see the function arguments
20:31.41MaloeranWhat's this code you are running? Do you have the source code?
20:31.43``Erikthere's only one argument, it'll either be on the stack or a register (depending on os and arch)
20:31.59``Erikonce you have the address, any debugger SHOULD be able to look at it
20:32.08``Erikor you can see if it even makes sense
20:32.25``Erikif you happen to know where heap and stack tend to be on that os/arch
20:32.46dtidrow_workgdb on x86
20:33.01dtidrow_worklinux/x86, that is
20:33.04``Eriklinux and fbsd are pretty different there with function call convention, last I looked
20:33.06``Erikaight
20:33.39``Erikiirc, linux/x86/gcc likes to try to do a register fill with arguments before jumping o.O
20:33.59``Erikbut my info might be outdated or just plain wrong, not exactly something I muched with much
20:34.01MaloeranArguments are passed on the stack on x86/Linux
20:34.18``Erikoh, fully on the stack? mebbe I'm thinking syscalls (int 0x80)
20:34.38``Erikok, so examine the stack, find the ptr you want, ...
20:34.45dtidrow_workyeah, there aren't too many available registers with x86  :-\
20:35.20``Erikthere are 8 gp registers.. but, uh, none of them are actually general purpose :(
20:35.32dtidrow_workhere's the call stack:
20:35.35dtidrow_work#0  0x05c1c731 in XrmStringToQuark () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6
20:35.35dtidrow_work#1  0x005ad1cb in XtSetTypeConverter () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.35dtidrow_work#2  0x003021a3 in _XmRepTypeInstallConverters () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3
20:35.36dtidrow_work#3  0x0027f31d in _XmRegisterConverters () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3
20:35.36dtidrow_work#4  0x0030e926 in _XmScreenRemoveFromCursorCache () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3
20:35.36dtidrow_work#5  0x005b37c5 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.38dtidrow_work#6  0x005b37f7 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.39MaloeranAh, it's all on the stack.  On Linux amd64, it's rdi, rsi, rdx, rcx, r8, r9 ; xmm[0..5], xmm12, xmm13
20:35.42dtidrow_work#7  0x005b37f7 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.50dtidrow_work#8  0x005b3c91 in XtInitializeWidgetClass () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.52dtidrow_work#9  0x005b3f86 in _XtCreateHookObj () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.54dtidrow_work#10 0x005b447b in _XtAppCreateShell () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.58dtidrow_work#11 0x005e0e93 in XtVaAppCreateShell () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:35.58dtidrow_work#12 0x005e1342 in _XtVaOpenApplication () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:36.00dtidrow_work#13 0x005e148e in XtVaAppInitialize () from /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6
20:36.02dtidrow_work#14 0x08050e7b in setupWindow (argc=@0xbfde44e0, argv=0xbfde4564, model=0x82d65f0) at main.cc:96
20:36.04dtidrow_work#15 0x08050f94 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfde4564) at main.cc:121
20:36.19dtidrow_workindeed - x86_64 is much better with regards to registers
20:36.22``Erikyeah, that's a backtrace, no the stack... it's generated by mixing 3  different things and throwing away a good bit of data...
20:36.45dtidrow_work``Erik: yeah, I liked MIPS
20:36.57dtidrow_workpity SGI pissed away their lead...
20:37.11``Erikheh, I was just reading about that earlier, x86-64 is no longer the name, intel has officially changed the name to be amd64, since it's a reimplementation of amd64's ISA...
20:37.34MaloeranI thought Intel opted for x64
20:37.50``Erikjra was asking me why his x86-64 desktop started calling itself amd64
20:37.55MaloeranMicrosoft refers to the architecture as x64, the open-source world refers to it as amd64
20:37.56dtidrow_workintel had it as EM64T, or something like that - just to avoid having to call it amd64  :-)
20:38.17dtidrow_worklast I heard, anyway
20:38.37``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EM64T
20:38.53dtidrow_workit's essentially intel's clone of amd64, though  :-)
20:39.10brlcaddtidrow_work: seems to be failing in the app setup, which takes several strings... passing any command line args? might try changing them and/or making sure something's not wrong with the input
20:39.28dtidrow_workAMD had better get its act in gear - Core is kicking Athlon a**
20:40.03``ErikXrmStringToQuark() shouldn't care what the string is as long as it's well formed... it LOOKS like a basic symbol table dealie
20:40.05dtidrow_workbrlcad: tried that - dies elsewhere due to a differently formatted data file
20:40.30brlcadthe fact that it's crashing deep isn't as important as it crashing at XtVaAppInitialize() from the app's perspective
20:41.10dtidrow_workMaloeran: and I'm pretty much an AMD fan as well, esp. the Opterons with their distributed memory architecture
20:41.15brlcadthat's one of the very first x calls it's probably making.. is the xserver actual running? :)
20:41.40dtidrow_work;-)
20:41.44brlcad:)
20:42.04``Erikheh, 'cept half the time, silly questions get answered with "oh, uhhhh.... n/m"
20:42.17Maloerandtidrow_work, I wouldn't say these Core Duo are quite stomping Opterons. You can't even put two of the chips on the same motherboard
20:42.27brlcadwell, I've seen even the most experienced dev try to kick off X11 apps from a Mac Terminal, localhost, forgetting to set display and/or xhosts
20:42.35dtidrow_work``Erik: that one was one step removed from 'is the power on?'
20:42.39brlcadso not entirely unheard of
20:42.51``Erikhum
20:42.54``Erikdon? is the power on?
20:42.57MaloeranPlus, Opterons are ahead in the very important performance/cost ratio
20:42.57``Erik:D
20:43.39``Erikbut intels chips are the ones being picked up by h^Hdell and apple
20:44.04MaloeranI thought Dell had switched to AMD, or perhaps it was HP
20:44.19dtidrow_workthey did, then the Core came out...
20:45.08dtidrow_workthe Core's perform better than equivalently-priced Athlons (apparently)
20:45.16brlcaddtidrow_work: another possibility.. linking in the wrong library
20:45.31brlcadrather suspicious that it's the first Xt call
20:45.52brlcadldd show anything useful?
20:46.07dtidrow_workI was looking at that, but don't have any experience with straight X11 stuff
20:46.58brlcadhow about just the basics.. ldd the binary and see if there are any 64-bit's being mixed with 32-bits and vice-versa
20:47.16dtidrow_workwell, I compiled the binary, and I don't have a 64-bit capable system
20:47.24dtidrow_workyeah
20:47.30brlcaddepends on the OS and compiler
20:47.31dtidrow_workmy thoughts exactly
20:47.37brlcadsome will let you
20:47.44brlcadand just crash at run-time
20:47.48brlcad(fun)
20:47.53``Eriklinux/x86/gcc, I think the rtld at least has the decency to check there
20:47.57dtidrow_worknot gcc/linux, in my experience
20:48.10brlcadyeah, but I wasn't making assumptions ;)
20:48.16dtidrow_workheh
20:48.24brlcadso this is linux
20:48.24``Erikbrlcad: I asked him his platform earlier.. :D
20:48.30brlcadah, i missed that
20:50.33brlcaderm, you compiled this yourself but can't step through in gdb?
20:50.55MaloeranThe libraries must not have debugging symbols I guess
20:50.57dtidrow_worknot that deep in the X libs
20:51.05dtidrow_workMaloeran: exactly
20:51.11brlcadsure, but again that's fairly irrelevant
20:51.26dtidrow_workI've got the params to XtVaAppInitialize
20:51.34brlcadfrom the app's perspective, something is wrong with the XtVaAppInitialize() call inputs or something that preceeds it
20:51.40dtidrow_workddd'ing it now  :-)
20:51.48``Erikheh
20:51.51``Erikgui dork
20:52.04brlcadddd has pretty struct graphs
20:52.21dtidrow_worknice data displays, too
20:52.55dtidrow_workah, same thing
20:53.20``Erikbut it's been over 10 years :(
20:53.31brlcad``Erik: it did :)
20:53.31dtidrow_workfor ddd?  yikes
20:53.49brlcadi last used ddd about that long ago too
20:53.55brlcad(at least seriously)
20:54.10MaloeranAh, I was writting my first lines of code 10 years ago
20:54.34brlcadheh
20:55.09dtidrow_workk, 'fess up
20:55.13dtidrow_workhow old?
20:55.19``Erik24 yrs since my first line of cbm basic2.0
20:55.29MaloeranAhah, woah
20:55.31dtidrow_worklol
20:55.42``Erikor, wait, no
20:55.49``Erikthat was on a coleco adam
20:55.50dtidrow_work``Erik: so about 50, eh?  ;-)
20:56.19MaloeranSo now Erik can say he has been coding from before I was born
20:56.35``Erikheh, no :D awz a young'n when I got my first machine... and, uh, it's not like you could run down the street to the software store in '83
20:57.11dtidrow_workyeah, remember those days - had to type programs in from 'Compute' magazine  :-)
20:57.45``Erikuh huh, my dad bought a coleco adam and a book called "games apples play" that was just listing after listing of trivial basic programs
20:57.56``Eriksome of 'em worked without modification on the adam
20:59.00``Erikoh, I had buck rogers on cassette, too, and a few others
20:59.19MaloeranEheh, cool
21:01.29MaloeranI had a C compiler and source code from Autocad. I think learning to code would have been easier with some kind of book or reference
21:09.32dtidrow_workfrom XtVaAppInitialize man page: "XtAppInitialize and XtVaAppInitialize have been superceded by  XtOpenApplication  and  XtVaOpenApplication  respectively."
21:09.54dtidrow_workinteresting - maybe I just need to change the code to this
21:15.20``Erikamusing... amazon is selling this book from between $250 and $450 used... but the entire book is available as a pdf for free on the authors website
21:15.34``Erik(On Lisp - Paul  Graham)
21:16.03dtidrow_workheh
21:44.18dtidrow_workwell, I'll have to futz with this more at home....
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23:40.23Rangarphew, oh boy
23:43.27brlcadindeed
23:45.48``Eriktoxic flatulence?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070125

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070125

00:06.16*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.113.204)
02:00.59Rangaryo erik, brl
02:04.15MaloeranThe ia32 and amd64's shl and shr instructions only consider the lower 5/6 bits for logical shifts ; does anyone know if C garantee correct behavior if I were to shift an int32_t by 32? ( clearing it to zero )
02:06.02MaloeranAh there it is, undefined behavior as usual
02:10.01Rangarsee, now if it had ben in C++ ;)
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04:08.50louipcgreetings
06:03.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: whoops, that was just testing on the opt/optimized. go ahead and add an alias for enable-opt anyways.
06:06.12brlcadyo
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10:38.40brlcad``Erik: interestingly enough, the x11 linking test works correctly on an os x that does have X11 installed, so *shrug* .. don't care (at this point) why it's not clear why it "works" on a default os x config..
10:39.14brlcadit at least works as one would hope, so good enough
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21:19.12dtidrow_workanybody awake here?
21:30.19MaloeranIf you have a question, you better just ask away
21:31.55dtidrow_workheh
21:32.34dtidrow_workremember my X problem from yesterday?  well, I compiled the program in question on a different box, and it works fine there  :-\
21:32.47dtidrow_workexact same code
21:33.31MaloeranAny signifiant differences in the libraries each box is loading?
21:33.47``Erikssooooo something is foobarred with your X install or something under that... different X install? different kernel? different hw? checked md5sums if it should all be the same?
21:33.49Maloeran( with ldd ) Assuming you want to find out what the problem is
21:34.44dtidrow_workhaven't analyzed what the differences are yet - spent the time actually using the program for what I dl'ed it for  :-)
21:36.07dtidrow_workweird thing is that I haven't had a problem running just about any other type of X11-based app
21:39.44MaloeranI'm tempted to believe that the software is doing something wrong, not the X libraries
21:41.49``Erikmal: I'm already getting requests from other groups here for your source so they can start building their apps against it O.O
21:42.25MaloeranReally? Hrm, I'm not sure how to react to that
21:42.27``Erik<-- gonna let leebert take care of all that, though, some possible recipients are contractors...
21:42.38MaloeranIf they want to use the native API, be my guest
21:42.57``Erikthat's what they want... to see if the api is close enough to what they think they want
21:43.08MaloeranOh, neat
21:44.00``Erikbut I'm not gonna make the call to just shovel your stuff over, I'll let someone who makes more than me assume the risk o.O :)
21:44.18MaloeranI think it's too early still, though
21:44.33MaloeranSome features of the API are incomplete or untested
21:45.00dtidrow_workMaloeran: the fact that the code compiles/works okay on another box would indicate (to me at least) that the problem is in the X libs on this box
21:45.16MaloeranI'm still working on the major features before cleaning up the details, and testing all possible combinations of settings and features
21:46.07Maloerandtidrow_work, code can appear to run correctly in some circumstances while still being faulty
21:46.27dtidrow_workhmmm, I wonder if there's some issue with the compiler - FC4 uses gcc4 by default, but I also have gcc3.2.3 installed here, so could try that and see if there's still a prob
21:46.33MaloeranThe fact that all the other X software runs fine makes me believe the program might be to blame
21:47.08``Erik*shrug* maybe his look at your api could help you focus your api and feature set, it's good having people look at your ideas and comment on 'em, as long as they're logical comments... doesn't mean ya blindly do what they say, though... just listen and consider :D *shrug*
21:47.27dtidrow_workbut the function params look fine, afaict
21:47.30MaloeranErik, I'm all for people having a look at the API and ideas!
21:47.50MaloeranIt's just that if people are going to use the library already, I got some clean up and bits of code to do
21:47.54``Erikif it was the user app feeding xlib bad data, xlib should return an error so the app can appropriately respond.  segging down in the bowels isn't cool
21:48.17``ErikI mean, if you called read() with a bad file id, you'd want it to throw you an error ssaying it's a bad id, not panic the kernel
21:48.27dtidrow_workyeah
21:48.47MaloeranErik, could you keep me informed if anyone is going to use the library? I could use 2-3 days before then to complete and test various pieces of code
21:49.44``Eriksure, I won't get to  talk to lee about it until tomorrow, I think... then to either get him cvs access or prepare a tarball, that might not be until monday or tuesday at the earliest? *shrug*
21:49.48MaloeranAnd write a proper demo of the library, not something quickly hacked together for testing purpose
21:50.02``Erikand the first thing he's gonna do is look at your installed headers
21:50.17``Erik(otherwise, he has to try to hack adrt/libtie into what he wants)
21:52.37MaloeranI don't really "clean up and polish" before all the more fundamental code is done
21:52.43dtidrow_workheh
21:52.51dtidrow_workdoes anybody?  ;-)
21:53.28``Erik*shrug* his current goal is just to look at the headers to use the library to see if it supports (and exposes) the fundamental notions he needs
21:53.54MaloeranOkay. RT/rt.h is what he needs
21:54.06MaloeranPlus the very long Doxygen page describing the API in details
21:54.50``Erikif I get someone else to approve it, I'll try to remember that just those two things are needed for him at the first step :)
21:55.18``Erik(since two seperate contracting agencies are involved, I wanna do some cya...)
21:55.32MaloeranSome "cya"?
21:56.06``Erik'cover your ass'
21:56.26MaloeranOh :)
21:56.43``Erikif I gave him the code, then your employer sued me, it'd make me a sad panda
21:56.48MaloeranHum, I got to write Doxygen doc for the RT_EXT_MULTIPLE_HITS extension, I think that's something they would want
21:57.40MaloeranWell, I own copyright on the code and it's to be covered by a GPL license. I don't think anything could happen
21:58.03``Erikhm, I think he wants iterative trace capability... the overhead of that might be more expensive than just shooting the ray all the way through and only using what ya care about, though *shrug*
21:58.35MaloeranThe API is defined to be a generic, flexible and efficient raytracing API independant on the underlying engine... so additional features are exposed by extensions, OpenGL-style
21:59.08MaloeranIt's iterative but can return more than one hit per callback
22:02.49MaloeranYou can tell him to look at rtirenderblend4sse.c for the transparency demo with multiple hits per ray, SSE optimized
22:03.12Maloeranor rtirenderblend.c for the scalar non-SSE version
22:05.40``Erikmebbe next week :D
22:34.20brlcaderm, gpl would be highly problematic if it's going to the parties I believe it'll be going to
22:34.32brlcadnot only highly problematic, but an outright non-starter for some
22:37.04brlcadany library that used your library in anything other than linking to a dynamic library at runtime would be subjected to gpl clauses, and there are still issues with dynamic libs too
22:37.11MaloeranOh? Well, if needed, a copyright holder can release under any other license I guess
22:37.24MaloeranI'm sorry, I should have said LGPL
22:37.33brlcadah, that's entirely different :)
22:37.48brlcadno problems then
22:38.42dtidrow_workheh
22:43.21dtidrow_workpretty sure brlcad has a file  ;-)
22:43.40dtidrow_workoops, shouldn't have said that....
22:45.42louipchaha
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070126

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070126

00:08.57``Erikstupid fucking snow
00:13.15MaloeranSo you bought your bicycle already! I know how you feel
00:16.20``Erikheh
00:16.21``Erikno
00:16.27``Erikit went blizzard style while I was driving
00:17.21``Erikso I was trying to navigate twisty hilly backroads with an inch of fresh powder (unsalted roads), a jackass tailgating me, and summer tires on 1.75 tons of grossly overpowered steel
00:17.40``Erikoh, and visibility of ~10m at some points
00:18.29``Eriktook me over an hour to get home :/ and the first half our of it was ok, full speed... (usual travel time of 35-40 minutes)
00:18.36``Erikso that last 5-10 minutes took half an hour or so
00:19.36MaloeranEheh. That's a long way from work, spending 10% of one's conscious life in a car driving
00:20.03``Erikyeah... it is
00:20.37``Erikhowever; it's pleasantly relaxing, it gives my brain something fairly simple to focus on so it can change gears from the bs of work
00:20.44MaloeranCan you work from home some/most days?
00:20.53``Eriknot unless I filled at forms and got approved
00:21.09MaloeranIt could be worth the time investment
00:21.16``Eriktwinky was approved for 3 days a week, I just havne't gotten to the paperwork
00:26.13MaloeranI'm a bit annoyed by how buying 3 dual-dual-opterons is about the same price as one octo-opteron
00:27.42MaloeranThe extra circuitry in 8 ways Opterons sure is costly, the motherboards too
00:27.42dtidrow_workocto-opteron meaning eight actual chips, or four dual-core Opterons?
00:27.42MaloeranFour dual-core
00:29.28dtidrow_workdepending on the type of workload, having a single quad dual-core system might still be the best way to go
00:29.50MaloeranYes, clearly. Gigabit will saturate with distributed raytracing on 3 boxes of 4 cores
00:30.12dtidrow_workheh
00:30.51dtidrow_workare there any eight socekt Opteron mobo's out there?
00:31.43MaloeranYes, haven't really looked into these
00:32.11dtidrow_workhttp://www.boxxtech.com/Products/APEXX/apexx8_overview.asp - drool....
00:34.31MaloeranTo scale properly on such boxes, we will have to store a copy of the graph in the memory bank of each processor die
00:35.04MaloeranGraph & geometry, of course
00:35.50MaloeranAny recommendation, Erik, (2or3)*dual-dual or quad-dual?
00:36.09TwingynumaPIC
00:36.35MaloeranYes! Highly scalable processing for PIC
00:38.07MaloeranPerhaps a motherboard with multiple gigabit ports would almost scale, one per processing node
00:39.57MaloeranInfiniband cards are somewhat expensive, but that would be fun to play with
00:47.55Twingyyou should see if mellanox has a hardware implementation of tcp/ip to allow for > 1.1Gb on their infiniband
00:48.29Twingythey mentioned they might be working on a next gen card in 2004
00:49.00TwingyMaloeran, you can always buy a 10Gb PCI Express NIC for alot less
00:49.32MaloeranCan't get a price on these without contacting them, tsk
00:49.54MaloeranThat generally means "out of my budget" :)
00:51.00Twingy$750 a card
00:51.11Twingy$3k for an 8 port switch
00:51.19MaloeranThat's about what I saw elsewhere
00:52.08Twingya PCI Express to PCI Express card would be useful
00:52.15Twingywith a ribbon cable
00:52.40Twingywriting a driver for that would be a snap
00:53.19dtidrow_workinteresting idea
00:53.53TwingyI could probably make one on my CNC mill
00:54.08Twingyjust a double sided PCB really
00:54.50Twingywon't get much faster than that
00:55.12MaloeranI think I'll just start slowly with two dual-dual-opterons on gigabit, I'll grow my home cluster over the months
00:55.48Twingyyou should take one class at a university
00:56.00Twingythen you will get university account and access to infinite computing resources
00:56.29TwingyI have a bazillion computers at my finger tips at njit
00:57.16MaloeranI see :)
00:57.33Twingyhttp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dansdata.com/images/cmoy/dcin280.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dansdata.com/cmoy.htm&h=174&w=280&sz=15&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=U0FzNIGLlOw2EM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDC%2BInput%2BJack%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
00:59.03Twingyevery time I eat macaroni and cheese I get gas, hrmph
01:00.39dtidrow_workTwingy: tinyurl.com - for future reference  ;-)
01:01.37Twingywhat's a matter your web browser 8-bit or something?
01:02.00dtidrow_workheh
01:02.19dtidrow_workjust more convienent
01:06.59TwingyMaloeran, you could install two gigabit cards and expand the socket buffer in the kernel
01:07.10Twingythen plex across the two
01:07.35Twingythat should scale almost linearly
01:08.04MaloeranRight. I don't think the bandwidth would saturate if high-level results ( pixels or so ) are transfered
01:08.21Twingyadrt run smooth on 100Mb
01:08.29Twingyacross 8 nodes
01:08.32MaloeranPixels or raw intersection results?
01:08.40Twingycompressed pixels
01:08.52Twingyon gigabit I don't compress
01:09.24MaloeranAh. 1024*768*3, 2.5mb per frame, 40 frames per second for 100mb/s. -> Gigabit is almost filled up
01:09.42Twingytried compression?
01:10.03TwingyI had decent success with libz
01:10.19MaloeranYes I noticed
01:10.34MaloeranI haven't used compression, I still got stuff to complete in graph state synchronisation between nodes
01:11.07MaloeranI'm just saying that theorically, 3 boxes of 4 cores would saturate the gigabit
01:11.15TwingyI'm so happy, my shrink tube came today
01:11.25MaloeranShrink tube?
01:11.28TwingyI've been making cables galore, this triton Jr rocks my socks off
01:11.37Twingyyes, it shrinks when you heat it
01:11.47TwingyI have a 1500W heat gun I bought for $19.95 somewhere
01:11.59Twingythe triton outputs banana
01:12.15Twingyso I made a banana to j-type, banana to banana, banana to dc jack, and banana to deans is in the mail
01:12.56MaloeranIs the final objective related to rocketry, robotics?
01:12.58TwingyI can charge lithium polymer, lead acid, nickel metal hydrides, and nickel cadmiums
01:13.07Twingyboth actually
01:13.13MaloeranAh, neat
01:13.25Twingyan aerial platform for testing my rocketry electronics
01:13.42TwingyI just burnt $650 on getting back into r/c planes
01:13.51TwingyI'm all tooled up
01:13.53MaloeranEheh, I saw the picture yes
01:14.20TwingyI'm going to convert half the basement (the unfinished part) into my rocket and r/c workshop
01:14.36Twingyand leave the garage for making parts and boards
01:15.05Twingyuntil I build my shed out back
01:15.09MaloeranI see, sounds good. I almost assumed you had enough room in the garage
01:15.12Twingyeither this summer or next
01:15.26TwingyI don't have the garage temperature controlled
01:15.31Twingy(yet)
01:15.33MaloeranAh yes, good point
01:15.42Twingysoldering in sub zero temperatures is tricky
01:15.47Maloeran;)
01:15.51Twingyand I'm not heating the garage while it's not insulated
01:16.30Twingy3 more gcam releases and it's back to rocketry
01:16.46Twingynext one should be tonight or tomorrow
01:17.34MaloeranI'm vaguely planning to build some kind of home cluster over the months/years, I think I'll need that when I'm ready to get back into AI
01:19.15Twingybuying computers sucks you dry >_<
01:19.43Twingynice thing about the tools I'm buying is they won't be obsolete for a good 15 - 25 years
01:20.20Twingyall I'm missing is the $2500 lathe
01:20.27MaloeranEheh, indeed. Unfortunately, I have no other need or interest than computer hardware
01:21.01dtidrow_workunless you pick up used computers
01:21.18Twingyhard to build next gen algorithms on obsolete hardware
01:21.20MaloeranI already got my cluster of amd-k6 and Pentium 2, I need an upgrade ;)
01:21.30dtidrow_workheh
01:21.47Twingyespecially "timing" related ones
01:22.51dtidrow_workwell, for 'home' clusers...
01:23.16dtidrow_workyou generally take what you can get  :-)
01:23.31TwingyI speant almost two hours writing this yesterday: *(int *) &_f = (t&0xff000000)>>24|(t&0x00ff0000)>>8|(t&0x00007f00)<<8|(t&0x000000ff)<<23|(t&0x00008000)<<16; }
01:23.41MaloeranThat's what I did.. but my overclocked desktop beats the other 6 boxes combined
01:23.49dtidrow_workheh
01:24.14Twingyconverts big endian PIC floats to little endian IEEE 754 floats
01:24.15MaloeranTwingy, a weird partial byte swapping?
01:24.22MaloeranOh I see
01:24.30dtidrow_workPIC floats?
01:24.33Twingyfor the autopilot
01:24.39Twingymicrochip floats
01:24.45Twingyexponential, sign, mantissa
01:24.47dtidrow_workah
01:24.54Twingywhere IEEE754 is mantissa, exponent, sign
01:24.55dtidrow_workthat PIC  :-)
01:25.45dtidrow_workhaven't played with those in years (PICs, that is)
01:25.56TwingyI use them religiously at work now
01:26.58dtidrow_workIIRC, they have an 'interesting' machine architecture
01:27.10dtidrow_workTwingy: for what?
01:28.07Twingyall sorts of stuff
01:28.21Twingyautopilots mainly
02:06.22``Erik<-- probably woulda loaned ya some of the junk ya may've needed for r/c's...
02:24.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
02:24.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: add support for arbitrary matrix transformations to torus primitive .. while
02:24.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: there's certainly question on what this means to the mathematics of the implicit
02:24.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: form (they're no longer mathematically a torus), the underlying modeling
02:24.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: capacity is still needed and storing a transformation matrix or at least scaling
02:24.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: vectors in the primitive (or above the primitive) would go a long way to
02:24.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: handling this somewhat unique case.
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03:07.26``Erikwee, squashed and skewed torii
03:09.18``Erikkith style, crrrushink your torus! crrrushink your torus!
03:11.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/ (axis.c font.c symbol.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given vector
03:22.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative vector values
03:30.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add additional helper macros MAT_DELTAS_(ADD|SUB|MUL)(_VEC)? for modifying the translation elements (3, 7, 11) in a 4x4 transformation matrix
03:30.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/pl-dm.c util/plrot.c rt/do.c rt/read-rtlog.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative vector values
03:31.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (common.c kurt.c tube.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given vector
03:31.55brlcadmm.. pure donuts
03:34.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgmodel.c edsol.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC when setting translation elements to a given vector
03:34.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (rtif.c usepen.c): simplify, use MAT_DELTAS_VEC_NEG when setting translation elements to negative vector values
03:36.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: s/NUL/MUL/ typo
03:44.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: add similar MAT_SCALE sibling macros for adding, subtracting, and multiplying the scaling elements just to be consistent
03:48.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: elements_per_mat is a square of elements_per_plane
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05:15.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (14 files in 14 dirs):
05:15.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: since the pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex files are now in CVS, disable the CLEANFILES
05:15.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: directive that deletes them. now that they're sorted.. if they're different,
05:15.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: the cvs update notice should be significant now that they're sorted
05:15.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: consistently.
05:29.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (30 files): allow the import function transformation matrix argument to be NULL, use an identity matrix in that situation.
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07:50.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (copyright.sh indent.sh): sanity checking - don't care if configure.ac is readable, just see if it exists
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08:49.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: skipping
09:01.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: sorta support filenames with spaces (the for loop will still choke)
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14:34.05``Erikbrlcad: lunch... japanhouse... the usual time...
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16:03.50brlcadhm, that means I'd need to shower
16:06.35``Erikdot... dot... dot...
16:20.45dtidrowheh
16:20.56dtidrowjust getting around to too, eh?
18:21.04``Erikseems he decided against shorting
18:21.06``Erikshowering
18:21.17``Erikosake was sugoii ii desu ne
18:44.47``Erikheh, damn I'm lame, I had to babelfish that one
18:45.33``Erik(but... you're in agreement? I didn't think you drank? so how would you know if sake is very good?)
18:46.55MaloeranOh :), just provided an unintelligible answer to a question with the same attribute
18:47.23MaloeranFeel free to keep me informed on any interface talk
18:47.43``Eriklee gave a thumbs up, I told him where to snarf it
18:48.00MaloeranWhat did he approve exactly?
18:49.10``Erikfull access, and I told him the name of the person he should talk to at the place the cvs repo machine is, as well as your handle and this channel
18:49.18``Erikummm, his nick was like "joevalley" or something I think?
18:49.32MaloeranI don't remember seeing that
18:50.10``Erikok, the grammar and ordering is all out of whack for sure on this, but think english order/grammar...
18:50.25MaloeranUnderstood :)
18:50.43MaloeranI don't like commiting half-way done code
18:50.48``Erikout of curiousity, how would the well formed sentence be structured? :D
18:51.13``Erikwell, 'half done' is a necessicity, just try not to compile in a "broken" state
18:51.58MaloeranBut theres's nothing new to see or test if the new code isn't completed
18:52.30MaloeranThough the bit-packed graph cache is a bit better, not a single bit wasted now
18:52.33``Eriknothing at the user level, of course, but I tend to read your commits and try to understand what and why
18:52.39``Erikand where you're going
18:53.25``Erikand I'd rather read a book made of sections, chapters and paragraphs than a single long stream :D
18:53.49``Erikso my poor feeble brain has time to grasp the meaning before moving on
18:54.03MaloeranOkay :), give me a day or two and I'll commit
18:54.27MaloeranOne of the reasons I don't like commiting early is that there are big blocks of personal notes, comments that would make no sense to other people, right in the code
18:54.36MaloeranSometimes using a mix of french and english
18:54.51``Erik<-- works frequent commits into his development mentality, so not seeing it is alien
18:54.57``Erikbut I'm a dork like that
18:55.49``ErikI don't care if it's in french while you're working on it, as long as teh end product is coherent to me... :D if nothing else, when people want to know how progress is going, I can at least say "it's progressing" if I see commit traffic
18:55.52MaloeranIt's just that I put my thinking process as raw comments in the code, so it's heratic ; and the comments take the way out when the code is done
18:56.34MaloeranOkay, 1-2 days and I'll commit
18:56.53``Erikheh, if you codified your thinking process via repository history, then others can look at the history and gain some understanding into your process and why you made your decisions, no? :D
18:57.27MaloeranThat would imply taking time to write comments that could make sense to anyone else... :) I don't understand my own raw comments after a week
18:58.07``Erikhehehe, millions of postit notes with random sentence fragments? :D
18:58.21MaloeranYes, that's exactly what it is :), except that it's in the code
18:58.37``Erik<-- still interested in the deltas, and it does no harm to 'back up' your work frequently, no?
18:58.43MaloeranAll right though, I'll try to do more than a large monthly commit
18:59.13``ErikI mean, hell, you see the cia messages here, we commit stuff to brl-cad all the time...
18:59.24``Erikand in my case, a good portion of it is only half thought out ;)
18:59.36MaloeranVery small commits, yes, but there are a lot of people working on it
18:59.42MaloeranAh :)
19:00.08``Erik<-- commits just as frequently on his personal projects where he's the only developer
19:00.09MaloeranDo I also commit temporary code for personal testing purposes?
19:00.16``Erikoften in smaller commits, heh
19:00.22``Eriksure, why not?
19:00.33Maloeran*shakes head* Okay
19:00.47``Erikit's a way of recording history, communicating, and backing up your data
19:01.25MaloeranStuff will be commited for Monday when the guy looks at it
19:01.55``Erikmaybe you'll be knee deep in something you're trying to figure out and a commit would let someone see where your head is and maybe ask golden questions that help you, or offer possible alternatives?
19:02.36``Erikit's your code and you get to decide, but I'm interested and want to keep up to speed on it :D (and if I'm being unreasonable, someone please, ffs, tell me)
19:02.37MaloeranSo you want to participate in the code? :) I hadn't assumed so, I'll change my approach then
19:03.02MaloeranOh, you are not being unreasonable at all. Look Erik, I have always coded alone
19:03.03``ErikI'm already half participating out on a fringe, but in using an old snapshot
19:03.36``Erikbinding rayforce and adrt into a benchmark program is my current top priority non-emergency task
19:03.51MaloeranGreat
19:03.59``Erik(now I'm focusing very much on tie at the moment, as I know my copy of rayforce is outdated)
19:05.48MaloeranI'll shower and eat breakfast before it closes at 15h, thanks for your guidance
19:06.10``Eriklater, dude :D
19:12.01``Eriknice http://home.earthlink.net/~krautj/sassy/sassy.html
19:16.02archivistbah too many brackets
19:20.36``Erikfunc1(func2(func3())) vs (func1 (func2 (func3))), the second has too many brackets but the first is ok? :D
19:20.52``Erikor, say, (func1 {func2 [funk3]}) ?
19:21.32archivistI dont expect any brackets in plain assembler
19:24.32``Erik(lisp or scheme style) macros would be insanely awesome in an asm type thing
19:25.38``Erikmakes me wanna do os work that much more :D
19:26.42archivistew
19:27.13``Erik<-- wants a modern lispos
19:27.44``Erikperhaps because I ate too much wallcandy as a child :D
19:28.26brlcad~seen joevalleyfield
19:29.05ibotjoevalleyfield <n=joevalle@bz.bzflag.bz> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 371d 1h 7m 36s ago, saying: 'may i buy a vowel?'.
19:31.22brlcadfrequent small commits are a "good thing"
20:19.33MaloeranI think Lisp-style macros would be really bad in assembly
20:20.03MaloeranEven if you would repeat the same macro twice in high level code, the assembly code should probably be different for each instance
20:38.51``Erikerm... yeah... uh... that's why I said lisp style instead of c style... :D
20:45.59``Erikqjkl
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21:55.34brlcadcurious, how do most feel about embedded tabs?  e.g., int foo;[tab][tab]/* some comment */
21:58.03brlcadat least doesn't answer the question
21:59.10MaloeranIf not for comments besides code, I don't see the point of embedded tabs :). In other words, I wouldn't be too fond of these
22:00.08brlcadmight also see them in comments for example to line something up perhaps
22:00.25brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:00.39brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:00.44brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:00.47brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:02.03brlcadpersonally, I've found them to be more annoying than helpful simply because some editors are thrown off by them
22:02.34MaloeranYes, I'm not too fond of tabs generally. If you have seen my code, I use space everywhere
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22:05.11brlcadit's not so much preference as it is collaborative impact that I'm concerned with .. gut feeling is that it's probably not a big deal either way and the few bytes that are saved probably don't matter much
22:06.51brlcadMaloeran: I believe you perhaps mean to say you can't stand indentation levels of 8 .. rather different statement
22:07.27brlcadthe only portable tabwidth is 8, indentation and use of tab characters at intervals of 8 are usually the question
22:07.28``Erikyour embedding is just indenting after the code... I might have a line that says \t\t\tint i;\t\t/* i is the index. nehe taught me commenting */\n
22:08.44``Erik<-- tabhappy mofo :D but ain't religious on it
22:10.09brlcaduse of tabs or not isn't really a concern, it's whether this mass update I'm about to commit that turns all embedded ones into tabs or not is what's at hand
22:10.50brlcadwhitespace at the beginning of lines is already commented on in hacking, we have standard practice on that and footers to encourage/enforce it
22:11.05brlcadbut embedded is another question
22:11.12``Erikas long as they linux up with the ex: command in a comment or 8 if none exists, I'm all down with it :D
22:11.18``Erikerm
22:11.21``Eriklinux??? line
22:12.50brlcadlinux?
22:13.06brlcadahh
22:13.31brlcadyeah, embedded is pretty much orthogonal to ex:
22:14.55``Erikwait, just -*- option -*- ? :D
22:15.34brlcadwe don't use emacs header lines
22:15.48brlcadfooter variable blocks
22:15.49``ErikI thought I saw 'em somewhere in the src
22:15.54``Erikoh
22:16.04``Erik<-- not an emacs guy... needs to learn
22:16.35brlcadheader lines have funky rules about having to be within the first few lines of the file (similar to vi's need to be near the end)
22:17.02brlcadthe emacs variable blocks can be anywhere, so it's more convenient to bundle them with the vi line
22:17.31brlcadthen all your formatting junk is out of sight most of the time and respected by the two main editors
22:19.50``Erikaaanyhoo, was just throwing out that it'd be interesting to see how many files are delinquent wrt
22:21.50brlcadoh, most are atm
22:22.02brlcadi've only run the indent script on a few directories
22:22.32brlcadthere's preprocessor gunk that screws things up that has to be manually/slowly fixed, otherwise I'd let it run on all files
22:29.55louipcmaking the code more readable?
22:30.22brlcadreadable depends on the reader
22:30.29brlcadbut more consistent, yes ;)
22:33.51louipcgood stuff. Do you need help?
22:35.11brlcadheh, always
22:35.25``Erikhey
22:35.28``Eriklets kill vdeck
22:35.28louipcbecause that sounds like something I could do :D
22:35.41brlcadwith over a million lines of code, there's always "something" inconsistent that can be cleaned up
22:35.48brlcad``Erik: what for?
22:36.12``Erikwhy not? I'd hope no one uses gift anymore :D
22:36.16brlcadif it's causing major problems sure, but if it's not.. leave it alone :)
22:36.25``Erikaw, c'mon, I wanna kill it
22:36.28``Erikhehehe
22:36.36brlcadactually, I had someone ask for gift stuff just a few weeks ago
22:36.41``Erikcrazy
22:36.46brlcadit is
22:36.48Twingygo shoot them then
22:36.56``Erikbrl-cad is pretty big, a little pruning might be beneficial
22:37.15Twingy``Erik, not until it gets a flight simulator built in
22:37.26``Erikheh
22:37.30``Erikum... hmmm
22:37.33louipchehe
22:38.08brlcadgetting rid of existing functionality that has no/little overhead is of minimal value, and more than likely just would irritate the handful of people that would miss it
22:38.25brlcadmore benficial would be to fix the bigger problems..
22:38.40dtidrow_worksomebody would notice and whine bitterly, eh?
22:38.49``Erikmeh *shrug*
22:39.36brlcadjust about every time
22:39.38brlcadwithin six months almost guaranteed
22:40.00brlcadand it because fuel to a fire
22:40.05brlcads/because/becomes/
22:41.37louipcis there a guide to how the code should be formatted?
22:42.42brlcadlouipc: HACKING file has the details
22:44.00brlcadpretty standard stuff, should resemble linux kernel with 4 char indents mostly
22:44.41brlcadi.e. GNU coding standards with basic K&R indentation style
22:45.40louipchmm I'll have to read up on the specifics of those
22:46.00brlcadthere are examples in the hacking file, wikipedia has a simple coverage as well
22:48.25brlcadthere is a script in cvs that will actually utilize emacs to automatically format up sources for you according to the style, and it does a great job
22:48.53brlcadbut it does get confused by some preprocessor logic that changes curly brace indentation
22:49.05brlcade.g.  #ifdef __whatever__
22:49.15brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:49.18brlcad#else
22:49.26brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:49.27louipcyeah hehe
22:49.28brlcad#endif
22:49.36brlcadmesses up on the double indent
22:50.01brlcadsimple to accommodate, just remove the indent or remove the ifdef even better if possible
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23:32.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (19 files): ws
23:38.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: (log message trimmed)
23:38.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: This script updates a given set of files (or most all files in this
23:38.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: project) with consistent whitespace formatting. The script can be run
23:38.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: on individual files or in batch mode, and is intended to be run
23:38.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: periodically to help ensure consistent formatting. Currently, the
23:38.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: following actions are performed by default (but can be selected
23:38.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: individually at run-time):
23:46.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include ws.sh
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070127

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070127

00:28.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: Remove the Done
00:30.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: this script doesn't do indentation, there are better tools for that job (e.g. brl-cad's indent.sh emacs hook script).
00:32.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (6 files): ws, test two
00:45.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: too many changes by expanding internal tabs for my comfort zone, disable it by default for now. causes massive changes as brl-cad extensively uses tabs atm. (not visual, but massive nonetheless)
01:02.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (93 files): ws, test three
01:08.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS HACKING INSTALL AUTHORS BUGS configure.ac): ws, last test..looking good ;)
01:12.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: ignore our own files
01:15.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: obey WS_PROGRESS
01:31.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: run ourself on ourself
01:33.53brlcad*boooom*
01:40.02``ErikI presume "whitespace" means "tab and space", not the usual compiler/parser notion of "tab, space, and newline"
01:42.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (1084 files in 111 dirs): ws. lots and lots of ws. see sh/ws.sh for details (cases 'abcdeg').
01:42.44``Erikperl where sed would've done?
01:51.07brlcadstill not completely common to have a sed that supports in-place-editing, and full-file (-0777) matches are royal pita
01:52.42``Erikyeah, linux lacks on the sed... the "mv sed rm" loop is lame
01:52.51brlcadfutzing with sed and redirects, and my pedantic check of file inputs/outputs before and after would have just added bloat
01:53.25brlcadi had to add one in there for 'expand' and didn't really want to (though it in the end, that's the case that's disabled
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01:55.36brlcadthat probably cut the line count down by a few hundred/thousand at least, no more spans of blank lines (bob had some tcl files with dozens at the end of file)
01:55.45brlcadat least no more than two now
01:56.25brlcadparticularly trailing newlines after the footer.. that's just annoying
01:58.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: s/one lines/on lines/ typo
01:59.46``Erikhrmmmm
02:00.37``Erik'portlint' complains if there is more than one contiguous blank line... is that a feature we should concern ourselves with? does it ever make sense to have three consecutive newline characters?
02:01.44brlcadyeah, i can see the case for distinguishing between one and two .. separate out sections in file, each section might have breaks of one
02:02.09brlcadthat's got to be configurable with portlint I'd imagine too
02:02.24``Erikno, portlint is insanely anal on things like that
02:02.33``Erikit's a pretty basic perl script last I looked
02:02.52``Eriksections are seperated by exactly one blank line. necessarily.
02:03.01brlcaddon't see why we'd need to care really
02:03.07``Erikaight *shrug*
02:03.29``Erikjust throwing it out there :)
02:03.31brlcadi mean it does make sense to allow a couple, denotes a break more than one level
02:04.00brlcadat least, I see a use for it
02:04.07``Erikprobably be better to do a quick&dirty grep type search and manually fix it, anyways
02:04.12brlcadnow the difference between 3 and 4 or 3 and 8, not so much
02:04.15``Erikif apporpriate
02:05.00brlcadheh
02:05.04brlcad"why"
02:05.16``Erikpage break... to seperate high level sections...
02:05.25brlcadi know, but .. "why"
02:05.26``Erikopposed to blank line, then /********/
02:06.03brlcadmostly only useful if you shovel the file off to a printer
02:06.06``Erik(also; shows up a pretty dark blue in vim)
02:06.08``Erikyeah
02:06.16``Erik*shrug*
02:06.21brlcadmost of the time, you're just looking at stupid ^L's everywhere :)
02:06.31``Erikpretty dark blue ^L's
02:06.33brlcadhehe
02:07.08``Eriknonprintable characters are colored in vim, and the default color theme doens't use that color for anything else :)
02:07.48brlcadhm, the addition of opennurbs caused by 1.5 hour G4 compile to go to about 3 hours now
02:08.36``Erikwith wc.sh; you do progress for every single file? do any take long enough to worry about that? would it be worth building the perl program in a string, then executing perl once to lower the startup/teardown overhead?
02:08.54brlcadnah, the whole thing flies
02:09.31brlcadprocessed all of the sources and other files in like two minutes
02:09.47brlcadwhich is like .1sec/file
02:10.06``Erikhm, seems like a better progress indicator would be to make total % done after each file, then collapse the perl
02:10.43brlcadmeh, cleaning up ws is just a helper task .. and now it's done..
02:11.41brlcadit's enough wrapper around 7 lines of actual work as it is
02:12.03brlcadthe only nasty part is the collapse of whitespace at the beginning of a line
02:12.45brlcadcould not for the life of me get the regexp to behave without iterating.. so it iterates -- and collapses one each iteration
02:13.22brlcadannoying, but again, meh it's done and did the job well
02:13.46``Erikhum
02:13.50``Erikummm
02:14.03``Erikdid you give it the /e flag at the end to tell it extended regex?
02:14.35``Erik(and, actually, your replacement string can be a perl program...)
02:15.15``Erikthe only perl in my toolbox these days is:
02:15.16``Erikperl -pi -e 's/%([0-9A-Z][0-9A-Z])/chr(hex($1))/eig'
02:16.56brlcadi know, I tried a variety of junk
02:17.35``Erik*shrug* if it works, it works :) hopefully, we'll all have enough discipline to never need it again...
02:17.39brlcadstill couldn't get iteration without explicitly iterating .. something non-greedy that rematched on a global
02:17.47brlcadheh, riiiight
02:18.16brlcadit probably should be set up to run weekly
02:18.49brlcadlater though, after the website (and after ef)
02:35.43``Erikif run weekly, should it attempt to commit, or should it send an email reporting its 'findings' so a human can verify and commit?
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04:51.15brlcadfor that kind of script, probably just commit .. for others, depends
06:21.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ws.sh: no need to find configure.ac -- just let it use the current directory if no arguments are specified
07:00.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: no need to find configure.ac -- just let it use the current directory if no arguments are specified. the helper script can still be searched for as needed.
07:05.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/copyright.sh: no need to find configure.ac -- just let it use the current directory if no arguments are specified.
07:17.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: it's a nifty generic script, but there's still no real pressing need or justification to install it.
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07:57.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: should not be using the gpl or gfdl any more
09:05.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: oop another ref to gpl/gfdl removed.
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10:31.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (template.sh Makefile.am):
10:31.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: initial addition of this file template script. it generates an empty template
10:31.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: file with a standard header and footer based on the provided license and file
10:31.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: type. basically, it's a warpper on the header.sh and footer.sh script along
10:31.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: with other clean-up steps generally needed. add script to dist.
10:33.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: fix comment, mirror commands, not m command
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18:58.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: check for valid access before looking up the object
21:43.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 4 dirs): remove the tolerance parameter from nmg_invert_shell. it's not used, contrary to the commented purpose, and just complicates the interface unnecessarily so remove it.
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22:29.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c:
22:29.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: add a new rt_mirror() routine for mirroring an object about a specified axis.
22:29.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: the routine is derived from mged's f_mirror command hook and is one step closer
22:29.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: towards getting rid of the switch on primitive types. routine takes a database
22:29.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: instance, a from and to object name, and the axis and returns a directory
22:29.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: pointer to the new mirror object.
22:30.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: add the new rt_mirror func
22:30.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: add new mirror.c file
22:32.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: use the new rt_mirror() function for the guts to f_mirror(). the latter is now just a wrapper on the tcl/mged command interface semantics. part of general effort to move mged's editing facilities into librt.
22:39.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: one step closer, stub out the matrix transformation on solids
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070128

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070128

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08:10.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: windows (vc8) throws an assertion if setvbuf is called with a size of zero: ((2 <= size) && (size <= INT_MAX)) .. presumably they want a buffer big enough to stash their \r\n or somesuch.
08:23.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: go with a BUFSIZE buffer instead of min to reduce write flushing
08:31.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: er, define BUFSIZE for setvbuf
08:37.31MaloeranIt's just amusing to see it being "robust" enough to try to handle OSes that don't conform to specifications
08:46.06brlcadyep, it can
08:53.26brlcadthe "specifications" didn't always exist, too .. and most have gone through various iterations of what is strictly required, what is recommended, how compliant implementations are if at all, etc
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16:18.18clock_lol - lol :)
16:18.33clock_POSIX loser, brl-cad ruler :)
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070129

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070129

00:07.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: c++ source file
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01:22.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/indent.sh: er, if the diff is empty then it means there was no change. logic error somehow snuck in
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06:24.18bjorkBSD1:33.56
06:24.47bjorkBSDhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5839713484603756925&q=seymour+cray
06:24.55bjorkBSDbrl-cad is mentioned in that video ;l)
06:25.08bjorkBSDat that precise time... 1:33.56
07:09.08brlcadheh, that's pretty interesting
07:25.58brlcadthat's cool, had definitely not seen it
07:26.50brlcadtheir details on mike and brl-cad were slightly off, but the spirit of the moment of the aside was neat
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17:56.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: add mirror.c
17:58.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/librt/librt.vcproj: add mirror.c
18:02.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: mention how installation of Tcl is needed with the vc6 build in order for the libs to work
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20:36.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (prep.c shoot.c): grr, let rt_clean_resource work with a NULL rtip just like rt_init_resource (!)
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23:56.25bjorkBSD'sup folks.
23:56.27bjorkBSDno topic?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070130

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070130

00:02.02dtidrow_workguess not
00:02.10dtidrow_workbrlcad: you want to add one?
00:02.34bjorkBSDi think so ...
00:02.45bjorkBSDi saw a video yesterday and brlcad was mentioned.
00:02.51bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
00:03.02dtidrow_workwhich one?
00:03.08bjorkBSDit wasn't about brlcad of course, it was about seymour cray and his machines.
00:03.20bjorkBSDso the whole session lasted a total of 1 minute. but it was there.
00:03.21dtidrow_workright - that was mentioned here earlier
00:03.34bjorkBSDi posted the link yesterday.
00:03.41dtidrow_workah, maybe that was it
00:03.47bjorkBSDdid you see it?
00:04.14dtidrow_worknot yet, but I did download it
00:04.29dtidrow_workthe whole thing, that is
00:04.51bjorkBSDyou can't watch it online?
00:05.11dtidrow_workI can, I just prefer to dl them if possible
00:07.19*** topic/#brlcad by ``Erik -> BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
00:08.10dtidrow_workah - thought the chanop had to set the topic...
00:08.41``Erikonly if the channel has the +t bit set on its mode
00:08.52dtidrow_workgotcha
00:08.52``Erik(which is the norm...)
00:12.35brlcadbjorkBSD: yeah, I watched the lecture .. pretty nifty little gem
00:13.32brlcadnetwork reset must have blown away the topic
00:19.53bjorkBSDah :)
00:19.57bjorkBSDhad you seen it before?
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01:44.41brlcadbjorkBSD: no, i hadn't!
01:46.02brlcadso you just found yourself watching their posted cray 1 lecture for fun? :)
01:46.24bjorkBSDyes :D
01:47.44bjorkBSDno computers have next to nothing to do with my blue collar job.
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10:14.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c:
10:14.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: include string.h if HAVE_STRING_H is defined
10:14.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: include nurb.h (RT_NURB_EXTRACT_COORDS)
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22:16.43PrezKennedygeez... its only tuesday
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070131

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070131

00:51.47*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.112.79)
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05:56.34bjorkBSDso i've drawn a few boxes and toruses and one or two other things so far.
05:56.42bjorkBSDapplaud me! :D
06:32.33bjorkBSD... or not :|
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06:56.18brlcadheh
08:09.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: remove the abort if the first line isn't detected. instead just warn and apply the header. also, add prefix to case for portability and empty argument matching.
08:10.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tessellation of some pipe in toyjeep.g fails (rather reliably) on a bend
08:11.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add c-indentation-style to emacs variable block, setting to k&r or something more appropriate than the gnu default (see c-set-style).
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17:30.02``Erik$ cvs commit -m 'linux is for retards'
17:30.04``ErikO:-)
17:32.11``ErikI think I may have librt working in the framework today... that'd be nifty.. adrt shortly after. and since I removed the offending source, I can just give it to you when it's done, instead of going through the public release procedure
17:47.10Maloerancvs commit -m 'OSX threading and memory management are abominable'
17:48.23MaloeranI'll add single-ray non-threaded tracing functions when I get that source, since there's no other way
18:02.02``ErikI'm under the impression that some osX syscalls are ugly performers due to mach microkernel message passing...
18:05.17``Erik(also; osX uses phkmalloc(), not dl-malloc)
18:30.00MaloeranI think the fact that the routing system and codes are completely different is being understood
18:33.07MaloeranI find myself pondering about Intel's latest Xeons, the Core2 architecture ; though it's limited to 2 sockets per motherboard
18:46.22``Erikare mark and/or tony informed of the difficulties?
18:48.27``Erik(librt results being curried back and performance monitoring is in place... nifty.. oddly enough, single threaded, fbsd/amd64 2.0ghz is 120krps and linux/ia32 2.0ghz is 34.7krps)
18:56.49MaloeranAre you comparing an Opteron with a Pentium 4?
18:57.08``Erikopteron and xeon
18:57.22``Erikp4-xeon
18:57.23MaloeranThey aren't informed, but I think they'll make this work eventually. I'm just amused from the fact they never knew canadian banks worked differently
18:57.43MaloeranWell sure, that's a crappy chip in comparison to an Opteron
18:57.45``Erikthey're not an international company... :D
19:00.11MaloeranOh well, it's just impatient for I'll order some nice hardware as soon as it's received
19:10.50MaloeranI'm* just
19:15.55``Erikheh, stupid canucks, doing everything bass ackwards ;)
19:18.00MaloeranTsk, how could you ever buy a Pentium 4 ; the old Athlons were already better back then
19:19.14MaloeranUnless it was forced on you by management, I had assumed you had a word to say on the hardware you receive
19:19.37``Erikit was here when I got here
19:19.45``Erikand it had "dell" stamped on the case (it's a rack mount thingy)
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19:46.18dtidrow_workbrlcad: you around?
19:47.04brlcadnope
19:47.09dtidrow_workheh
20:39.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/cvt.c: should be using bu_getopt and friends
20:57.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: update comment, USE_PROTOTYPES is set in configure, not machine.h
21:01.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.1: consistency on BRL-CAD where not technically problematic, s/BRLCAD/BRL-CAD/
21:39.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/iges.c: more BRL-CAD name consistency. allow BRLCAD or BRL-CAD in the attribute string.
21:40.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/jack/ (g-jack.c jack-g.c): use libbu getopt
21:40.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): consistency on BRL-CAD name use, s/BRLCAD/BRL-CAD/
22:03.07Maloeranhttp://www.libregraphicsmeeting.org/index.php  -  Some conference in Montreal in May, do you guys want to come over here for a change? :)
22:03.39MaloeranPerhaps not quite on topics that concern BRL-CAD though
22:04.15``Eriksounds like it'll be a bunch of french faggots
22:04.16``Erik:D
22:04.33``Erik<-- might be in ottawa may 18-19
22:04.39``Erikhttp://www.bsdcan.org/2007/
22:05.50MaloeranTsk Ottawa, come try some of Montreal's restaurants
22:07.49``Erikheh
22:08.04``Erikthe hotel+travel thing mentions hitting montreal by air, then training to ottawa
22:08.28``Erikunfortunately, it's after your contract is completed, so I can't use it as an excuse to "meet"
22:08.30``Erik:)
22:09.07MaloeranWe can use it as an excuse to... present Rayforce or something, perhaps a future piece of Blender
22:10.52MaloeranOn a related topic, Mark asked if other contracts were planned or if they could put me on their fire simulation
22:10.57``Erikblender isn't on the radar with the pointy hairs
22:11.21``ErikI don't know.. I think the current posture is "we want to use him, we don't know for what right now"
22:11.36``Eriksend me an email at my work addy to remind me and I'll make noise about it
22:11.42``Erikerikg@arl.army.mil
22:11.46``Erik<-- home right now ;)
22:12.04MaloeranAll right. The fire simulation looks fun to play with, but the project's team seems... weird so far
22:12.39``Erikheh
22:13.01MaloeranFrom what I have seen so far, a bunch of engineers writing Fortran77 code, without any real programming skills
22:13.27``Erik<-- has no binding authority and those with it rarely notify him, is in the dark
22:13.35``Erikyes, actually
22:13.35``Erika bit worse
22:14.49``Erikfrom what I gleaned off of mark when we were sitting there, there was a fortran coder who write it in floortrash IV, some dudes (engineer types, no cs background either by education or experience) who really don't know coding hacked it until it worked in a f77 compiler, and other people
22:15.02``Erik(again, engineer types) get told to "make it do something new" every once in a while
22:15.45MaloeranYes, that's about it. They asked 25-50 words on my ideas to rewrite the whole thing, they received about 2000 words
22:15.53``Eriktypically, that kinda coder has a basic handle on something as complex as, say, a linked list... but not much more
22:16.16MaloeranAnd I really lost on the way... I received questions like "Which is faster, equations or look-up tables?" without any background or context
22:16.26Maloeranreally lost them* on the way
22:16.36MaloeranAhaha
22:17.02``Erik(and I consider a method to be a function... that's how the machine sees it)
22:17.42``Erikto use java mangling, path$to$class$method() (far less horrible than, say, c++ mangling)
22:17.43MaloeranMark undertands code better than they do, he's the only one who was able to write meaningful feedback on the 2000 words summary
22:18.00``Erikthere're some people at survice who know their shit
22:18.10MaloeranI think Mark is great as a manager, really
22:18.13``Erikand there're some who don't... and that is everywhere
22:18.32``Erikyeah, tony seems like a decent guy, the switch isn't gonna really jack anyone, I don't think
22:19.20``Erikprobably the most impressive thing about mark isn't his technical aptitude, but his ability to get the hell out of the way when the topic goes beyond him
22:19.56``Erikgood guy, hope he likes his new position :)
22:20.26MaloeranI'm apparently sticking to Mark as manager, I think he prefered to keep it that way
22:20.34``Erikhis replacement seems to exhibit the same ability, as well as a very tech based candor
22:20.40``Erikhuh
22:20.42``Erikaight
22:20.51``Erikhe's moving south, though
22:20.55MaloeranExample of feedback from the engineers, about SSE-packed data storage and processing : "In you latest epistle, you mentioned grouping the grid-cells in 'packages' of four. Since a cube has 6 sides, why not in groups of 6, one for each face? "
22:21.05MaloeranRight, I know
22:21.15``ErikI spoze that really doesn't matter if you're working on non-arl stuff
22:21.35MaloeranI can't see how could one organize the cells of a region in groups of 6 to match the faces of cubes! It can't be done!
22:21.35``Erikless rural down there, if/when ya move, I spoze :)
22:22.14``Erikah,yes... the snow.. the ice... the car doors... pleasant living... :D *duck*
22:22.37MaloeranOh, especially the car doors :)
22:29.26MaloeranI really wonder what this fortran code will look like, do you have any clue on how big it is?
22:29.46MaloeranI just wonder if it might be possible to rewrite it all in a short time frame
22:29.55``Erikwell
22:29.59``Erikif it falls int he same pattern
22:30.20``Erik90-95% is superfluous
22:30.20``Erikif documentation exists, it's wrong
22:30.25MaloeranI have heard there is a function with 150 parameters in it
22:30.31``Erikand it'll either make your eyes bleed
22:30.35``Erikor go insane
22:30.38``Erik:D
22:30.40MaloeranCool! :)
22:31.01``Erik<-- was insane before he started doing paid work, so just gets the bleeding eyes things
22:31.11MaloeranAs long as I can rewrite it all from scratch, I don't think I really mind ; but I wonder if I'll have time
22:40.25brlcadMaloeran: seems like a rather tiny conference
22:40.42brlcadmildly interesting, but it's on the periphery
22:43.34MaloeranYes, I'll probably have a look because it's 15 minutes away, but I wasn't seriously expecting you guys to come
22:45.10brlcadfeel free to pimp up brl-cad ;)
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23:34.18``Erikand let us know how many people show up and how 'useful' it is :)
23:38.34brlcadlooks like about 40-60 showed up last year
23:40.48MaloeranAhah
23:43.53MaloeranWhere did you see that, brlcad?
23:47.51*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070201

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070201

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03:53.29louipchowdy
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04:54.04bjorkBSD'sup
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14:26.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltBgexec.c: missing sys/errno.h header
14:31.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltMath.h: BLT_DBL_EPSILON isn't defined
16:15.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (bltUnixPipe.c bltVecMath.c): add sys/errno.h to appease configless compilation
16:16.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltMath.h: define BLT_DBL_EPSILON and BLT_FLT_EPSILON so that configless compilation will succeed.
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20:27.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: define some default for a configless compile
21:52.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: include the same prototype declarations that vls.c uses for bu_vls_printf and bu_vls_sprintf. remove the non-existant bu_vls_blkset.
22:16.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: provide types for the cray func prototype for bu_vls_printf and bu_vls_sprintf now that the function is unk&rified
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070202

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070202

00:00.58*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
00:06.24``Erikhm
00:42.38``Erikhah
00:42.41``Erikfree?
00:42.51brlcadyup
00:43.04``Erikaight... they're all on the webpage and it's fast
00:43.05brlcadmost of the podcasts are free
00:43.26brlcadyep, but clicking the *subscribe* is pretty darn convenient
00:43.33``Erikaight *shrug* :D
00:43.35brlcadit'll automatically send me the new ones
00:43.40``Erikswank
00:43.52``ErikI might need to do that, heh
00:44.18brlcadthese video podcasts are getting addictive
00:44.27``ErikI have a bookmark folder of "daily urls" that I click "open all" on every day
00:45.08brlcadgetting daily nbc news, daily italian lesson, npr fresh air, strongbad, thistlepod, and a few others now
00:45.12``Erikfreshmeat, slashdot, linuxgames, happypenguin, opengl.org, gamasutra, ibm's dev page, my comic page, zefrank, bash.org/?latest, qdb.us/?latest, ...
00:45.50brlcadyeah, most of those are either on my rss list or are visited when I get the chance
00:45.55``Erik(the comic page crawls 20 or so webcomics and dumps the actual comic from each in a single big unified page)
00:46.04brlcadi've seen/used your comic page
00:46.12``Erikah, heh :)
00:46.13brlcadi try to avoid comics these days
00:46.23brlcadtoo many, too much time :)
00:46.24``ErikI have a v2 almost done, just some bughunting I think
00:46.50``Erikit has the notion of user and comic state, so if you've already seen the image, it won't show it again
00:47.29``Erik(and if you miss a day, it shows you all teh ones you haven't seen)
02:08.23louipchehe strongbad
02:08.51louipcI wonder if there's a daily finnish lesson podcast
02:18.15``ErikO.o
02:40.17Twingyseen the Pico-ITX?
02:40.51bjorkBSDno.
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04:00.40louipchave you heard of the linux foundation yet?
04:00.57bjorkBSDwho is that?
04:01.17louipcapparently they're gearing up to go against microsoft
04:01.55louipca merger of odsl and fsg
04:02.20louipchttp://www.linux-foundation.org/en/About
04:02.37bjorkBSDah.
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06:05.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.3: update example to use libbu bu_getopt
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06:13.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: declare k in f_mirror
06:13.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/mirror.c: change references to f_mirror to rt_mirror
06:29.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: uses libbu and libbn, libadd declare them
06:33.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: dependency ordering on libadd libraries
06:38.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: document all of the various library dependencies. add a description of the newly added libbrlcad as well.
06:38.36brlcadgood stuff
06:57.17MaloeranA stupid question ; does anyone have a term to refer to the entities of a processing network, may they technically be clients, servers, masters or slaves?
06:58.35MaloeranJust trying to get proper terms for the API, "nodes" and "links" are already internally used for other concepts
06:59.50brlcadprocessing node is what first comes to mind
07:00.52brlcadmight get away with peers if they are also peers
07:00.55MaloeranRight. I'm trying to avoid confusion on internal terms
07:01.28Maloeran"Peers" wouldn't be too appropriate, it's more master/slave based
07:02.30MaloeranThanks, I'll use "Node" in the API and try to avoid confusion within the source
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07:07.50brlcadyeah, there's not much terminology when it comes to generic descriptions of network connectivity
07:09.00brlcadconnections, nodes, points, links, junctures, hmm..
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07:31.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (156 files in 12 dirs): Updated to the latest release of libpng, from version 1.2.8 to version 1.2.16. Includes all of their ('without config script' distribution) files.
07:44.08brlcaddammit.. per-program cppflags wasn't added until automake 1.7
08:18.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.c: need stdlib.h for exit(), quell warning
08:24.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c:
08:24.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: rename ogl_open, ogl_close, and ogl_choose_visual to have an fb_ prefix to avoid
08:24.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: namespace collisions with libdm. this should probably be done more
08:24.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: comprehensively, but gets past the linking error du jour. declare funcs one per
08:24.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: line while we're in here.
08:27.25brlcadwhat is this ..
08:27.32brlcadsleep .. you speak of
08:27.47MaloeranIt's very relaxing, you should try it sometimes
08:27.56brlcadsounds like devil talk
08:28.03brlcadkeep your voodoo magic to yourself
08:29.58brlcadhm. i wish there were a 24 hour gym nearby.. i could really go for a workout right about now
08:30.20MaloeranRunning outside in the snow won't do the trick? It works for me
08:30.46brlcadthere's not much snow out, but plenty of ice I"m sure
08:31.01MaloeranAh yes, that's less pleasant
08:31.18brlcadrather dark to see it too this far out
08:32.57brlcadplus, my knees and quads are already sore from yesterday, I'd rather do some heavy lifts and something less pounding on the knees .. followed by a nice dip in a hot tub or sauna..
08:33.00brlcadmmMMMmmmm
08:33.37MaloeranSo I'm guessing you don't have to be at work at 7h30 tomorrow, right? :)
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08:36.50brlcadI don't, but I think I will go in anyways .. should be pleasant enough to get some work done
08:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (12 files in 10 dirs):
08:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: remove the png headers from our include directory. png_cppflags are now
08:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: provided by configure and appropriately set to src/other/libpng if we're not
08:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: using a system libpng. this should help to avoid header conflicts aside from
08:36.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: just unnecessarily duplicating 3rd party headers. use the new png_cppflags as
08:36.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: appropriate, though have to add it to _CFLAGS since per target _CPPFLAGS support
08:36.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: wasn't added until automake 1.7 (and brl-cad allows anything 1.6.0+).
08:37.12brlcadmaybe keep hacking here until the gym opens at 5, then in to work
08:37.58MaloeranImpressive. I'm barely able to write code after being awake a mere 18 hours
08:39.01brlcadvaries for me, sometimes good for 20, sometimes 40 .. depends what I'm doing during my circadian low
08:40.17brlcadmy schedule rotated a few times last week from a couple all-nighters, so I don't think I'll hit a low until about 8am right now
08:40.47brlcadso makes for an easy 40 as I'll be energized after the workout, and busy
08:43.28MaloeranEheh, nice. My circadian cycle used to be completely messed up, days of 30 hours, for years... I really made an effort to adopt a normal daily cycle when the contract began
08:44.32clock_I went sleeping yesterday at midnight instead of the recently more usual 22.40 and my rhythm is going to be screwed up from that for about the next week ;-)
08:48.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (91 files in 31 dirs):
08:48.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: convert all of the lingering getopt calls to bu_getopt (as well as the related
08:48.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: getopt globals optind, opterr, optarg) -- libbu's getopt has the benefit of
08:48.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: being re-entrant and is portable to environments where getopt() may not be
08:48.59CIA-5BRL-CAD: available.
10:03.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
10:03.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: check for -lstdc++ properly like any other library. add conditionals around the
10:03.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: openNURBS checks so if it's disabled, the checks are not performed. rephrase
10:03.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: the availability summary (we're not necessarily linking them, they're just
10:03.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: available)
14:49.42bjorkBSDyou're aging!
14:49.51``Erikbrlcad: would it be so horrible to bump the required automake to 1.7? 99.9% of the consumers will just use what package with it when you do a "make dist"...
14:50.41``Erikno, my employer does not understand the notion of 'first 40' or 'flex time'
14:52.09bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
15:30.52MaloeranWoohoo, SURVICE understood how direct deposit to canadian banks works. Time to buy some hardware
15:43.18bjorkBSDsurvice sells hardwar?
15:43.20bjorkBSDe
15:43.40dtidrowthey sent money so that he can buy some
15:44.33bjorkBSDcan anyone receive money to buy hardware?
15:45.06dtidrowheh - would be nice, wouldn't it?  ;-)
15:46.00dtidrowIIRC, they've got some sort of consulting arrangement going
15:46.10bjorkBSDthey buy him hardware and he says 'woohoo'
15:46.19bjorkBSDhmmm. i'd like such a gig too.
15:58.33brlcad``Erik: yes it would be
15:59.26brlcadat least right now, with the main dev platform still shipping 1.6.3
16:04.57MaloeranStill awake, Sean? :)
16:06.08brlcadyeap
16:06.35brlcaddidn't make it to the gym, though ..
16:06.38bjorkBSDsay, did you develop the industry diagram?
16:06.41bjorkBSD... it's my wall paper :D
16:06.43brlcadmebbie later
16:06.53brlcadbjorkBSD: heh, neat
16:08.20bjorkBSDyeah.
16:09.04bjorkBSDi put away my brl tutorials until i saw that cray lecture mentioning brl :D
16:10.06brlcad=)
16:10.34bjorkBSDeh. i was gonna use rhino.
16:10.55bjorkBSDbut i found religion so i'll stick to this.
16:11.13brlcadheh
16:11.39brlcadrhino's pretty nice, for some purposes in particular
16:11.56brlcadentirely limited in other ways, but nice for their market
16:11.59bjorkBSDbut brl is functionally equivalent so i'm not gonna worry about it too much.
16:14.12bjorkBSDhow come the mged user manual isn't mentioned in the docs ... or am i not seeing what's infront of me (as usual) ?
16:14.35brlcadbjorkBSD: not mentioned in which docs?
16:14.37bjorkBSDyeah it's in .ps and it starts from the bibliography but it's pretty damned good!
16:14.48bjorkBSDthe brl docs... i didn't see it on the sourceforge site.
16:15.49brlcadahh, mostly because the ones that are up there were converted to html, and nobody got around to doing that for the other volumes
16:16.05bjorkBSDoh.
16:17.01brlcadmost of the website stuff is rather "half-baked" in need of overhaul attention
16:17.11bjorkBSDhrmmm
16:17.33brlcadwith the exception of maybe the rest of the sf project pages
16:17.49bjorkBSDokay.
16:17.51brlcadbut brlcad.org, for example, needs to be redone
16:17.58brlcadwhat's up there now was literally the bare minimum
16:18.56brlcadbjorkBSD: if you are interested in working on it, you're more than welcome ;)
16:19.03bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
16:19.20bjorkBSDi use vi and ed so minimalism is my middle name.
16:19.27brlcadhah
16:19.38bjorkBSDhowever, a user manual/info thingy is part of the product
16:19.51bjorkBSDand it really helps make it more use-able.
16:20.03bjorkBSDso ... i'd like to take a stab at it.
16:20.15bjorkBSDdon't expect fancy flying gifs though :-S
16:20.22brlcadi'd really at least like to get those documents into CVS, but that's a chore
16:20.24bjorkBSDor umm flash-ey bits and what not.
16:21.05bjorkBSDwhy the hell not? :D
16:21.08brlcadjust fancy flashy flying pngs instead? :)
16:21.11bjorkBSDhahahha
16:21.57brlcadthe tutorial series is fairly straightforward .. mainly converting them all to docbook is just grunt work
16:22.23bjorkBSDnever used docbook. i'll find out.
16:22.30brlcadthe hard question is whether things like the industry diagram can be brought in as anything other than an image
16:23.34bjorkBSDit's a nice wallpaper i tell you.
16:23.52brlcadthere's no good/common standard format where I could actually get the diagram back to the tools used to create it
16:24.05bjorkBSDwhat'd you use?
16:24.26brlcadthat was mostly done in indesign
16:25.34bjorkBSDhmm
16:25.41brlcadrather tufteish diagram, I should send it to him to see if he'd comment
16:25.51bjorkBSDhehehehe
16:26.07brlcadit has something like 7 dimensions of data
16:27.10bjorkBSDwell, my car's not co-operating with me and it's too cold to go play outside so i should do something.
16:27.21bjorkBSDi might uncover more tutorials to push me along :)
16:28.28bjorkBSDthe one i'm using is a little long in the tooth on just a chapter or two which might fit neatly in an appendix.
16:29.12``Erikbrlcad: "main dev platform"? both fink and macports have newer automakes, as does fbsd... :D
16:29.49brlcad``Erik: your point being? neither of those are provided by default
16:30.01``Erikaight *shrug*
16:30.50brlcadit's only a minor annoyance that have to use _CFLAGS instead of _CPPFLAGS .. hardly worth changing a fundamental version minimum
16:31.31brlcadespecially one that would make things a pita in general for the common use
16:32.33``Erik<-- has always taken the "it's a distributable, so I'll use whatever I have on my system" approach, very few people should be touching the Makefile.am's, and those that should touch them probably have a more recent version or can get it and know what to do :)
16:32.46``Erikyou're not in the building, are you? it's gettin' to be lunch time
16:33.06brlcadnope, I ditched
16:33.19bjorkBSDwhere do i sign, mr brl?
16:33.29``Erikdave is disturbingly eager to check out the o club O.o
16:33.29bjorkBSD*signup*
16:33.37brlcad``Erik: even for just myself.. it would make my daily use a pita as I'd have to change all the macs I work with
16:34.02brlcadbjorkBSD: right here ;)
16:34.14``Erikok... all the macs I work with have 1.10 from macports, it's a fundamental to my operation as putting my dock on the side and changing to graphice :)
16:34.20``Erikgraphite
16:34.20bjorkBSD-> bjork is a GODDESS :x
16:34.22bjorkBSDthere. done.
16:34.46brlcadthat's just because you're a bsd zealot even on the mac ;)
16:35.18brlcadbjorkBSD: hehe
16:35.52``ErikI d'no if I'd say "zealot".. I do have solid expectations of how machines should operate (they should work, be efficient, and let me get my job done with minimal fuss) that drives me towards the bsd's with a certain package load
16:36.09brlcadyeah yeah, it's religion ;)
16:36.38``Erikheh, at least it's the right one ;>
16:36.49brlcadI appreciate it to, but I also like things working without any effort on my part to "set them up"
16:37.08brlcadwhen that can be done without a setup cost, sweet
16:37.30brlcadwhen it can't, se la vie .. another day
16:38.08``Erikout of the box, a mac needs serious help... gotta get X on it, gotta get Xcode, gotta make some symlinks, ...
16:38.29``ErikI should stupid one of my macs back to vanilla for testing, I suppose :)
16:38.43bjorkBSDa script!
16:38.52bjorkBSDa setup script! that's what your mac-y needs
16:39.07brlcadtechnically you don't "gotta get X on it" nor any symlinks, and a compiler is there by default
16:39.25``Erikhm, all 5 of them are already 'correct', why should I make a script? :D
16:40.00bjorkBSDhehehe to make the 6th one easier to setup.
16:40.05``Erikhum, I thought out of the box, it didn't have gcc... (unless you use the developer package some versions came with)
16:41.28brlcadI've heard of some getting a system that really had no compiler installed, but I've yet to see one that didn't and those claiming it didn't weren't entirely reputable
16:42.31brlcadmight have just been named something different for that matter, they support the "posix compiler" interface too (cc, c89, c90, etc)
16:44.29MaloeranOSX is the "main dev platform"? Gah!
16:44.46bjorkBSDthe plot thickens
16:44.52bjorkBSDMaloeran's view dims.
16:45.01brlcadin the end, it still comes down to usability -- if some random user downloads the package and attempts to compile -- it's far easier to tell them to install the dev tools (and even X11) than macports followed by a set of command line things they have to run
16:46.17brlcadMaloeran: philosophy is to run anywhere and everywhere .. "main dev platform" is an extension of where most of the development occurs, not any conscious decision to support any system over any other
16:46.52brlcadif there were active windows devs or linux devs that were out-contributing, that would easily change
16:47.12MaloeranFrom my limited experience so far, OSX seems a very poor platform performance-wise
16:48.18brlcada curious statement, really, though only a tiny fraction of the entire equation
16:49.33``Erikand, yeah, if your code abuses syscalls and you tune it so the abuse is acceptable on one os but not others, the other os's will look poor. Code better. :D
16:50.10MaloeranErik, test that raytracing benchmark on OSX, you'll see the same issues
16:51.17``Erikactually, I did with librt, and I didn't see that issue... the mac screamed... not as hard as the opterons, but it stomped the ia32 :)
16:51.56MaloeranI now have a complete memory manager sitting on top of malloc(), but I would be eager to point out that it provides no benefit on Linux
16:53.07bjorkBSDhmmm maybe i should dust off my indigo2 ;)
16:53.09``Erik(in fact, of all the cpu's and os's I tested, the g5/osX was the #3 spot in performance, the top two being opterons running fbsd and linux. Absolute worst was ia32 (p4-xeon) running linux)
16:53.16bjorkBSDoh it still lacks a monitor.
16:53.23bjorkBSD(to do... splurge on monitor)
16:53.34brlcadbjorkBSD: heh
16:53.41brlcadsplurge
16:54.07bjorkBSDyeah. after i develop my inventions in brlcad and sell them, of  course :D
16:54.14brlcadcool
16:54.33MaloeranErik, I guess they are less abusive in large memory allocation/freeing than my graph preparation code
16:54.47MaloeranEven though it's all dynamically allocated
16:55.26``Erikyou should invent and patent a business model for coping with the patent system :D
16:55.42brlcadMaloeran: I actually wrote/ran a malloc analysis tool a few years ago whilest investigating a problem with malloc on 10.2 -- ran the tool across versions of the OS, ran on different hardware, different OSs
16:55.50Maloeran"Patent on how to circumvent patents"
16:56.12bjorkBSDyou're patenting google.com/patents? :P
16:56.50brlcadOS X 10.3 and 10.4's malloc performance is actually rather decent in comparison, it was amazingly better than everything else for some allocation sizes, or on par at others
16:57.03brlcada lot of variability in the lower allocation size ranges
16:57.06``Erikstill got the data handy? and did you just do malloc and free, or did you do calloc and realloc, as well? (realloc tends to be one of the places where abuse really shows the dfiference between dlmalloc and phkmalloc)
16:57.57MaloeranAh... I don't know the details, but I know that my original graph preparation code would make OSX spend 90% of it's time in "syscalls", due to its aggressive freeing and zero'ing of pages
16:58.01brlcadi ran calloc/realloc at the time and didn't notice really any relative difference on the first few tests, so in the interest of time stopped
16:58.30MaloeranCode than ran in 10 seconds on Linux was taking several minutes on Erik's OSX box, I could hardly believe it
16:58.30brlcad``Erik: of course, I never get rid of any data ;)
16:59.35``Erikphkmalloc guarantees contiguous wire memory, so if it cannot cleanly grow the memory, it allocates a new area and copies the data, then frees the old one... dlmalloc dicks with the mmu lsu and just lives with insanely fragmented memory
16:59.59MaloeranInsanely fragment memory is not a problem
17:00.21MaloeranCaching and prefetching work in the process address space, not the translated addresses
17:00.37``Erikthat depends...
17:00.54MaloeranAnd anyway, realloc() was not the issue, I don't think there's any of that in the prep
17:01.17``Erikif y ou have something like hotswap domains where you can remove physical memory from a live machine, fragmented memory makes the release code much more complicated (therefore bug prone)
17:01.40``Erikthe ugly and bad of fragmented memory is there, but it's the os's job to cover it up *shrug*
17:02.21MaloeranSacrificing performance because it's "more bug prone" is not a good argument for me :)
17:02.48``Erikadrt's initial file reader was something like read a page, realloc, read a page, ... it was ok on linux, but crawled on bsd :)
17:03.05MaloeranYes, it still does that to collect triangles
17:11.39bjorkBSDhmm.
17:11.48bjorkBSDi have an idea.
17:11.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): include bu.h and link libbu for bu_getopt
17:18.12MaloeranAll right, it's decided, it's going to be Clovertown 4 cores dies
18:16.46*** join/#brlcad cad46 (n=57a08567@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:29.55brlcadspeaking of strongbad feed subscriptions, new one out today =)
18:34.46``Erikw00t
18:35.04``Erikerm
18:35.17``Erik'strong badathlon' was out a couple days ago, dude
18:35.31brlcadhaircut
18:36.03``Erikhuh, not showing up at the webpage
18:37.00brlcadah, not new
18:37.24``Erikah ha... podstar
18:40.04brlcadlooks like the feed is set up to dish them out at random, maybe because i'm not "caught up" or somesuch
18:51.15``Erikbrlcad: ports/misc/nut
18:52.28``Erikcurses, so it'd work just fine on that machine in belize :)
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19:06.47brlcadheh, funny
19:43.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/SDLMain.h rise/master/SDLMain.h): unused files
19:47.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (52 files in 16 dirs): finish changing all #defined symbols to uppercase...
21:30.03*** join/#brlcad pcman (n=524c1dd7@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:30.37pcmanhello
21:32.12pcmancan somebody help me to see if the BRL-CAD is a right choise for me. many thanks
21:34.18brlcadpcman: howdy
21:34.43pcmanhello brlcad
21:34.49brlcadpcman: can you pinpoint your need on this diagram? http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
21:35.01brlcadthat might help you see if it's even in the ballpark ;)
21:35.37pcmanI am developing application for CAD engineering
21:35.57brlcadowhat sort?
21:36.04brlcads/ow/of w/
21:36.05pcmanmore exatly steel detailing and fabrication software on windows
21:36.24pcman3d model => details
21:36.36brlcadthat's starting to get into the CAM realm, but continue..
21:36.54pcmanfrom 3d model I create 2d drawings
21:37.13brlcadokay
21:37.18pcmanfabrication (assembly)
21:37.24pcmanand overview
21:37.43pcmancurrently I use a brep solid modeler
21:38.13brlcadokay
21:38.30brlcadwhat sort of 2D drawings to you create?
21:38.42brlcadraster/vector?
21:38.50pcmanvector
21:38.50brlcadengineering diagrams?
21:38.58pcmannot
21:38.58brlcadala blueprints
21:39.14pcmannot diagams
21:40.16pcmansorry I am not sure about the term
21:40.30brlcadhow do you currently use the brep solid modeler (which one?) .. you model something in 3d, output a vector diagram, and feed that to the steel detailing machine?
21:41.07pcmanI need to create vectorial 2d cut to a 3d model
21:41.31pcman3d isometry with hidden line removal
21:42.18pcmanthe output must be vectorial (I further process it programmatically)
21:42.41pcmanfor dimension symbols, hatch, etc
21:42.52brlcadhm, brl-cad can generate the latter, but alas not in a vectorized format currently
21:43.00brlcadexample: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
21:43.15pcmanI saw this thanks
21:43.37brlcadmost of the image output is configurable, but it's certainly not vector format
21:43.39pcmanthe of rtedge is always an image
21:43.45pcman?
21:43.55brlcadit could be vector format, but it would require source modifications
21:44.00brlcadyes, it is
21:44.30pcmanand I can have access pogamatically to it?
21:44.50brlcadi played with some tools that generate a vector image from raster images, but they take a fair bit of hand tweaking to get a good vector rep
21:45.01pcmanI see
21:45.13brlcadall of brl-cad source code is available (free, open source)
21:45.30pcmancurrently I use amodeler (Autodesk)
21:45.58pcmanI saw this and seems to be a great application
21:46.42pcmanI wanted first to check if it's good for my needs and then to digg into the sourcecode
21:47.12brlcadthere is a lot of functionality under the hood, but with minimal investment in some aspects (e.g. user interface, usability, etc)
21:48.14pcmanyes. I can understand this. It's not a comercial application
21:48.14brlcadthere is an API on the entire geometry layer, so you could certainly use the geometric information in a given model and build up a vectorized 2D projection
21:48.48pcmanthis is what I need
21:49.10brlcadrtedge under it's current implementation basically shoots some sized grid of rays into the scene and queries the geometry types .. it then evaluates the ray results to determine where there are pixels that span a geometric edge
21:49.53brlcadinstead of building up a pixel map, you could build up vectorized outlines  (as you do have knowledge of geometry types upon intersection) and use that instead
21:51.17pcmanI can find information on each geometry the ray hits?
21:51.28brlcadyep, that's the easiest part ;)
21:51.50brlcadthat's basically what all of the rt* apps do
21:52.15pcmanI will study it. thanks
21:52.34brlcadsrc/rt/viewedge.c contains the guts to rtedge in the source code
21:52.56brlcadprimitive geometry are all implemented in src/librt/g_*.c
21:53.08pcmanthank you very much.
21:53.11brlcad*ideally*, to get what you need..
21:54.17pcmanall of these are under the LGPL licensed parts?
21:54.20brlcadyou'd probably modify the primitives to provide a projected 2D representation or even just a BREP form of themselves .. you'd then apply any CSG transformations to the BREP forms and project that onto 2D
21:54.42brlcadall of BRL-CAD's code, even the binaries, are now LGPL
21:55.11brlcadbasically all LGPL and BSD code (the build system, benchmark suite, and some helper scripts are BSD licensed) now
21:55.33brlcadthat announcement is going to be made with the next 7.10 release next week
21:55.39brlcadthough the changes are already in CVS
21:55.52pcmangreat
21:56.12pcmanregarding your last advice
21:56.29brlcaddocumentation changes from a dual-licensed GPL/GFDL to a variant of the BSD license as well
21:57.15brlcadthe last advice is the more involved, but not intractable .. and something others would likely contribute to and help with
21:57.15pcmanBSD is ok for comercial apps?
21:57.34brlcadheh, BSD is one of the least restrictive
21:58.07brlcadall BSD basically says is that you can't claim authorship on the parts you didn't write, otherwise you can do pretty much *anything* with the code (even sell it)
21:58.53brlcaddoesn't even require return of modifications like the LGPL, though any mods would be appreciated
21:59.08pcmangreat.
21:59.41pcmanIf we will choose BRL-CAD we will contibute
22:00.45brlcadglad to hear it
22:01.14brlcadthat's one of the great aspects of being open source -- if it doesn't do what you want, you're welcome to make the changes to get it doing what you need
22:01.52pcmanI have one more concern regarding model size
22:02.13brlcadthere's a couple decades and a couple hundred overall man-years of effort invested as it is, so you get a nice leg up from otherwise starting from scratch
22:03.07brlcadBRL-CAD's support for large models actually exceeds most of the commercial packages -- predominantly limited by your construction approach and hardware specifications (how much memory do you have sort of limits)
22:03.31pcmanyes. especially I will never get the budget to invest several years in dev. without results
22:04.27pcmanI have around 300,000 solid objects (not complex whan comparing to mechanical)
22:05.11brlcadwhen you say "solid objects" what do you mean?  primitive euclidean geometry or are those "parts" in themselves or something else?
22:05.45brlcadsounds like some simple "parts" if I'm reading you right
22:06.17pcmanI call an object for example the brep body representation of a steel beam (with cuts, holes...)
22:06.19brlcadlike nuts and bolts, hinges, latches, doors, etc
22:06.28brlcadyeah, okay
22:06.28pcmanyes
22:07.22pcmanI don't know many things about CSG so I am wondering if it's good to model a building with it
22:08.00brlcadit's definitely a different approach in general than you have with traditional BREP feature-based modeling
22:08.28pcmanmaybe it's too accurate for me and I loose speed
22:08.51brlcadspeed is one of the benefits actually, and compactness of the representation
22:09.27brlcadCSG with primitives is about an order of magnitude smaller than spline surfaced BREPs which in itself is about an order smaller than facetized BREP
22:09.53brlcadthe downside is really the modeling approach that it requires, it's more mathematically rigorous
22:11.10brlcadboth are solid modeling approaches, so you get the same guarantees on topology and valid representations .. but the modeling interface for how you go about associating things is radically different
22:12.03brlcadas a modeling interface, brl-cad's mged modeler leaves much to be desired -- if you specifically need a solid modeling user tool, you'll probably still end up writing your own interface or at least customize mged for your purposes if you went with brl-cad
22:12.18brlcadthat's changing with new interfaces being developed, but we're not there yet
22:12.38brlcadthe underlying representation, and api for creating/manipulating geometry is where there's a main benefit
22:12.54pcmanthis is OK in my case. I only want to use the modeler component.
22:13.32pcmanin fact replace the current moder
22:14.45pcmancurrently I persist in the model only parameters and I create (and cache) facetized bodies for display and algortithms
22:15.47pcmanWith CSG probably the approach should be different.
22:16.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
22:16.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: the script to M-x indent-regions now already exists (indent.sh). just need to
22:16.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: run the script on various directories one at a time while making sure
22:16.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: indentation isn't confused by replicated braces in preprocessor wrappings
22:16.28brlcadyou could actually do something similar still
22:17.45brlcadbrl-cad has an 'intermediate modeler' interface called archer that sort of does something very similar -- it has a concept of storing models in implicit CSG form as well as parameterized to some known template type (e.g. this is a "tank" with a turret this long and this many wheels) .. with facetized versions stashed for opengl display
22:19.22pcmaninteresting. It's different then mged? I thought it's only another GUI
22:20.41brlcadit is mostly a different gui, wraps what's under mged's hood in different ways, stores things somewhat differently in the .g geometry files
22:21.27brlcadmention it not as something to use (though you certainly can) but as an example of something that performs a somewhat similar task
22:22.41pcmanThank you very much. I will study CSG and BRL-CAD and come back other day.
22:23.15brlcadpcman: sounds good -- if you have any questions, I'm usually here as are several others that should be able to answer questions
22:23.35brlcadthe tutorials/guides on the website cover most of the basic approach and design limitations
22:23.44pcmanthank you very much.
22:24.11pcmanThere is available sample code for windows?
22:24.22``Erikyeah, I'm pretty retarded when it comes to modelling, but those guides were 'nuff to get me able to test my code mods, heh
22:24.24brlcadHACKING file in the source distribution if you're interested in becoming part of the actual dev team (it's an open dev environment)
22:24.59brlcadpcman: most of brl-cad's code, sample or otherwise, works under windows
22:25.25brlcadthere's studio build files in misc/ .. two different projects with different purposes
22:25.32brlcadexample code spread throughout the package
22:25.53brlcadsimple intro on the website: http://brlcad.org/example_app.php
22:26.01brlcadas well as doxygen docs on the website too
22:27.12pcmanthank you
22:27.38``Erikspeaking of doxygen; adrt has some doxygen markup, but it's not getting on the webpage... is it ignored on purpose, or is something slipping through the cracks?
22:28.54brlcad``Erik: probably because there's no group for that code listed in misc/doxygen_structure to key on, nothing in misc/Doxyfile that says exclude it
22:29.35brlcadsome of the doxygen markup was just me or justin adding a standard header with a @file section
22:30.22``Erikthere's some function info in there, too
22:30.35``Erikand structs *shrug*
22:31.10brlcadstill, probably just because there's no group for it in the doxygen_struture file
22:31.37``Erikand try to get some emacs fu, too... heh
22:33.10brlcademacs fu?
22:33.21brlcadcould it be possible?
22:33.25brlcadis erik seeing the light??
22:33.36dtidrow_workheh
22:34.10``Erik... 'slime' interests me.
22:34.26dtidrow_workouch
22:34.51``Erikand I'm always willing to learn new things *shrug* I tried ten years ago, before I tried vi
22:35.32``Erikand it just struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... vi was clean and efficient by comparison *shrug* :) maybe this time around, it'll be a little more interesting to me
22:37.28brlcadyeah, like "calculus struck me as being incredibly difficult to work with... basic addition and subtraction was clean and efficient by comparison"
22:37.46``Erikheh, not exactly the same comparison :)
22:37.52brlcadclose :)
22:38.00dtidrow_workheh
22:38.10``ErikI d'no, vim isn't exactly a slacker editor...
22:38.21``Eriknow if I were saying 'pico' or 'nano', then yeah, you'd have a valid point...
22:38.22``Erik:D
22:38.31dtidrow_workmore gasoline on the vi/emacs flamewar....   :-)
22:38.33brlcadnever implied that.. heck you can build an entire computer out of a basic ALU ;)
22:38.54``Erikand if I started jabbering about needing a decent gui ide, I'd hope someone would smack some sense into me
22:39.16dtidrow_workemacs - the original IDE  :-)
22:39.27dtidrow_workand windowing system...
22:40.30Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/twinstar_complete.jpg
22:40.55Twingytwice the finger chopping fun!
22:41.00Twingy:D
22:41.39Twingyat least you didn't lose your middle finger
22:42.11Twingythat little parts box is awesome
22:42.17Twingyfound it at lowes for $15
22:43.02brlcadshouldn't that fuel resovoir be on the other side to balance it out? :)
22:43.04Twingytriton charger along with banana to banana, banana to deans, deans to j-type, banana to alligator, and deans to dc all fit up top with the triton charger
22:43.06``Erikthe field box isn't sufficient?
22:43.13Twingyheck no
22:43.36brlcadcould use a new paint job
22:43.45brlcadthe Justin 2000
22:43.54``Erik'fuel resevoir'? are we lookin' at the same pic?
22:43.58TwingyI haven't put any decals in
22:44.05TwingyI think brlcad went to goatse.cx
22:44.15``Erikmebbe lemonparty or hai2u
22:44.21bjorkBSDheheh
22:44.35brlcadwhatever is got some sort of line into the engine on the left
22:44.44``Erikthat's the muffler
22:44.54brlcadso then that
22:45.03Twingythat weighs like 50 grams
22:45.09Twingyif that
22:45.20brlcadit wasn't for practical/weight reasons.. visual asthetic balance :P
22:45.25Twingyah
22:45.27Twingypfft
22:45.28``Erikint he air, ya wouldn't notice
22:45.41``Erikif visual asthetic is important, get a ducted fan *shrug* :)
22:45.49brlcadi would.. it'd annoy me all the way to the ground as I repeatedly crashed it by mistake
22:45.49``Erikaesthetic
22:46.02Twingyso the front nose area can house all of the electronics for my rocket as a testing platform, this plane has about 1.3:1 lift to weight ratio
22:46.22``Erikthose're .25's or .40's?
22:46.28Twingy0.25 FX's
22:46.38TwingyFX == 18k rpm, regular == 15k rpm
22:46.43``Eriknot the ones with bearings, though
22:46.48Twingy0.46 == 1.2 HP, (2) 0.25 FX = 1.85 HP
22:47.23Twingythis will do 50-55 mph level
22:47.39Twingymy last plane (the demon plane) did 40-45 mph level
22:47.42``Erikhow heavy is the rocket electronics payload? would it be better to dump those at the cg?
22:47.51Twingytiny and light
22:47.55Twingy100 grams maybe
22:47.56``Erikor just run the battery further back?
22:48.08``Erikok, like a watch battery? or a single AAA?
22:48.24TwingyI have a nicad pack that consts of 4 AAA batteries @ 7.2V
22:48.55``Erikalso; is the plane vibration going to be different from rocket vibration? remebering the x10 camera...
22:48.56Twingysmaller than AAA's iirc
22:49.11Twingyyep
22:49.21Twingythat's not going to do anything
22:49.47``Erik<-- looks forward to hearing about the telementry data :D
22:50.09Twingyhaven't built the new circuit (or rocket) yet
22:50.28Twingythis plane will likely get flown once or twice then get grounded while new rocket is under construction
22:51.37``Erikone of these days, I'll finish that ultrasport 40
22:51.49bjorkBSDwhy don't you build something you can fly in?
22:52.31``Erikbjork: that'd be really expensive... not just in parts, but in certification as well...
22:52.32Twingyit'd be alot cheaper to just buy a phillipino kid to start your plane for you
22:52.45``Erikheh
22:53.07Twingythey used to be rampant on ebay...
22:53.54Twingy"Look boss Zee plane boss, Zee plane!"
22:53.54``Eriklooks like it quit snowing
22:54.25``Eriklocked cage in the back of the cave? :)
22:54.35Twingy2400 sq ft house, and I spend 80% of my time awake in a 6x10 room
22:54.45bjorkBSDcertification? parts?
22:54.54bjorkBSDyou don't need either for a paramotor or an ultralight!
22:55.09TwingybjorkBSD, you couldn't fly those here, it's too developed
22:55.16bjorkBSDwhere's 'here'?
22:55.21``Erikultralights have pretty strict guidelines on altitude, weight, horse power, etc...
22:55.29``Erikbaltimore
22:55.44bjorkBSDyeah it's still ME flying vs squinting at a fly
22:55.45``Erikin the city, the gang bangers would shoot at you... away from the city, the rednecks would shoot at you...
22:55.47bjorkBSDah.
22:55.51bjorkBSDhehehe
22:55.57bjorkBSDi live in f'vlle, AR
22:56.15``ErikI would've guessed kansas city
22:56.16bjorkBSDthere's plenny of country to go around.
22:56.16Twingyso you'd have rednecks shooting at you
22:56.26bjorkBSDno. worse. hill billys!
22:56.33bjorkBSD'cause you'll be close enough to their homes.
22:56.37``Erik<-- used to live in springfield, missoura
22:57.34``Erikhillbillies are amusing :)
22:57.51bjorkBSDyeah. they go hun'n for 'coons a lot.
22:57.59bjorkBSDand they're liable to miss every now and then.
22:58.21dtidrow_workheh
22:58.29Twingyonce I get gerber junk in gcam I'll make the boards
22:58.42``Eriktwingy: for your interesting stuff, are you using an OS (like centos or qnx or something), or coding on the metal?
22:59.28TwingyI have alot of interesting stuff, is this work or home related?
22:59.32bjorkBSD'interesting stuff'?
23:00.39``Erik(also; sorry to poop on the party, but if I understand correct... tie_push() takes a blind pointer that you can associate to anything and retrieve in the hit function?)
23:00.43``Erikwork... are you actually coding embedded stuff (other than pic) at home? heh :)
23:01.15Twingya pointer to an array of pointers with a stride, the stride is the index to each pointer
23:01.22Twingytypically 4 for 32-bit, 8 for 64-bit
23:01.54``Erikok, is that per triangle, or is that a set associated with each triangle?
23:02.45Twingyper triangle
23:02.56Twingyfeel tree to make a version more apropos to your application
23:03.04``Erik(or if you'd rather, where's the best place to start reading code to figure it out... I'm trying to build something akin to a greatly simplified librt partition list)
23:03.43Twingywell, the one day you looked at libtie and said all this pointer junk is obfuscated I started adding comments galore
23:03.53Twingythere should be almost 1:1 ratio between comments and code
23:04.09``Erikheh, I've already been changing conventions to make it feel more 'normal' to me... all the defined symbols got changed to uppercase, for example :) I'm operating under the notion that you don't give a rats ass anymore and rf will supercede it
23:04.38``Erikbut I'm on the hook to prove that rf meets or misses the arbitrary 5x factor
23:04.44Twingyit's there as an off the shelf 'thing' for you to take and twist/warp to your application
23:05.26Twingyit's so small that it's really easy to go in and change the API all around
23:06.09``Erikok, other stupid question; tie_work() processes just to the next hit? so to shoot all the way through, I'd have to keep calling it until it says it missed?
23:06.46Twingythe hit callback you pass to tie_work continues to get called until it returns something non-NULL
23:06.56``Erikah, 'k
23:07.00Twingyvery inefficient
23:07.09``Erikthanks :) hopefully you'll never hear about libtie again :D
23:07.19Twingybut brl-cad style and what was suggested to be at the time of implementation
23:07.28TwingyI don't mind either way
23:08.02``Erik(doncha hate when people in mgmt roles make technical decisions? they're never the right ones...)
23:08.03TwingyI'm not into annexing myself from previous work, I just can't spend all of my time on it anymore
23:08.20Twingywhy do you think I left?
23:08.40bjorkBSDthe plane had to be built!
23:08.42TwingyI'm honestly surprised more people haven't left yet
23:08.42brlcadnot enough cheese poofs
23:08.43bjorkBSDj/k :P
23:09.11TwingyI don't even like visiting that building any more cause of the anxiety it gives me
23:09.18``Erikheh
23:09.21Twingycomparatively speaking
23:09.25Twingyi didn't realize it until I left
23:09.31Twingyand then a month later I came back
23:09.40Twingyand just felt like a wave of stress
23:09.42``Erikyou still need to give a subset of coworkers a tour of your new digs :D
23:09.55bjorkBSDwait, is brlcad a secret project to turn aliens into fish? :(
23:09.59Twingywendy and I set something up before christmas, but she canceled it
23:10.10``Erikhave ya talked to bob or paul lately? :D
23:10.16TwingyI haven't heard anything since
23:10.51Twingylately? no, I probably won't interface with them ever again since we are in completely different lines of work now
23:11.12``Erikif the opportunity arose, I'd just go check it out, I'm done asking for wendys permission or input
23:11.58Twingywell, I can tell you that if you stay there for another year things will probably be different, if you can't last that long then I'd suggest moving somewhere else
23:13.10``Erikheh, I keep getting requests from google and yahoo, and I'm half interested in doing the 'start a company' thing again. Of course, if I did that route, I'd find someone to play the sales/marketing/business side, I HATED that and was not good at it
23:13.43``Eriksucked 'nuff that I just quit once I hit the break-even point
23:13.50``Erikand went and got a 'real' job
23:14.53Twingythe sig rascal is a nice plane too
23:15.03Twingyif I had the money I might buy that
23:15.35``Erikthat's a bigger one
23:15.59Twingyhttp://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCXT9&P=0
23:16.02``Erikdamn, $400
23:16.23Twingybut that would fly so smooth
23:16.30Twingyeven in light winds
23:17.09``Eriknothing on the site about lift ratio
23:17.16TwingyI will probably build my next plane on my cnc mill out of foam and balsa
23:17.28Twingythe rascal would be a fun fly
23:17.30``Erikusing someone elses plans? or a complete new work?
23:17.40bjorkBSDyou have a mil?
23:17.48Twingya continuation of something I started after I switched over
23:17.52bjorkBSD*mill.
23:18.01TwingybjorkBSD, http://gcam.js.cx
23:18.08louipc!! you have a CNC mill!?
23:18.15louipc*envy*
23:18.16``Erik<-- always thought it'd be fun to design an r/c plane
23:18.44bjorkBSDoh shit!
23:18.47Twingywell, brian and I might design a larger cnc mill in our spare time using the taig
23:18.50bjorkBSDi just got a <bleep>
23:18.52bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
23:19.04bjorkBSDoh you have a TAIG! ohhh
23:19.11bjorkBSDthat's not terribly cheap.
23:19.13louipcwhat's a taig?
23:19.19bjorkBSDbut you can buy it in bits.
23:19.31bjorkBSDit's a micro-mill/lathe maker.
23:19.35bjorkBSDdo you have a lathe as well?
23:19.42TwingyI had one, but I gave it away
23:19.56TwingyI am going to buy a real one at some point
23:19.59bjorkBSDfunny. i don't see a lathe on my table :|
23:20.00louipcooh they look like conventional machines fitted with power feed har
23:20.02TwingyI don't need one at the moment
23:20.08bjorkBSDreally?!
23:20.09TwingyI have one at work
23:20.12bjorkBSDoh!
23:20.16louipcand I guess numeric control of course
23:20.17bjorkBSDah. but of course.
23:21.03brlcadTwingy: seem to be doing well in Italy :)
23:21.06Twingybest $1800 I ever spent
23:21.21Twingybrlcad, yea, what's all that about?
23:21.36brlcaddunno, but sounds like a road trip!
23:21.49Twingyboat trip?
23:21.57brlcadwoot
23:22.02Twingyor did you imply I should cnc mill a water proof car?
23:22.13brlcada submarine
23:22.15louipchehe
23:22.15brlcada yellow one
23:22.23Twingyhrm, that might take a while :)
23:22.33Twingyit'd be about 10,000 parts
23:22.33``Erik(someone hittin' the happy juice this evening?)
23:22.35brlcadbuild it .. "in bits" :)
23:22.45louipcyou need a mini welder too
23:22.45bjorkBSDdamn. i want a workshop very very badly.
23:23.18TwingyI haven't tried my new aluminum casting setup yet
23:23.19``Erikheh
23:23.24bjorkBSDyeah i can buy one at harborfreight for relatively little.
23:23.31TwingyI have some granite slabs and a jig with a metal trashcan filled with 250lbs of sand
23:23.31bjorkBSDbut their lathes/mills are POSs
23:23.52bjorkBSDah you're a metal worker and you have a forge and stuff?
23:24.04Twingyif you call melting aluminum metal working
23:24.07Twingythen yes
23:24.11bjorkBSDheheh
23:24.24bjorkBSDhmmm.
23:24.25Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/
23:24.40Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_aluminum2.jpg
23:25.06Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/renesis_block1.jpg
23:25.12Twingythat's what I do with soda cans
23:25.14brlcadthat's a lot of cans
23:25.20Twingyand 6061 scrap
23:25.26brlcadahh, cheated ;)
23:25.36TwingyI add 1% zinc
23:25.50bjorkBSDit sits on a table!
23:25.50brlcadfor that silky smooth feeling?
23:25.54bjorkBSDi can have one in my kitchen :-?
23:26.14TwingyI can sell those blocks for $15 - $20
23:26.26brlcadheh, you're asking the guy that sets off rockets that are just a couple screws short of being a pipe bomb.. ;)
23:26.28louipcyou machined that whole block with that tiny cutter? haha
23:26.32``Erikwhat's the fuel cost to make one? :D
23:26.45Twingylouipc, yep
23:26.51``Erikpropane high output burner, right? so a tank is pretty cheap?
23:26.53Twingy``Erik, $3 in propane
23:27.04``Erikcoo'
23:27.13Twingy1 tank does about 8 castings
23:27.22louipcyou need to get a facemill methinks
23:27.22brlcadmm.. tanks
23:27.48louipcthat's pretty cool though
23:27.57bjorkBSDso Twingy, have you built a tesla coil lately? :D
23:28.07Twingyno, just a coil gun :)
23:28.16bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
23:28.28bjorkBSDwhat made you wanna build a forge?
23:28.51Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/tmp/
23:29.24Twingythat was my first
23:29.52Twingythat charging circuit was a kodak disposable camera
23:32.06Twingyhehe
23:32.08Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/tmp/rocket1.png
23:32.11Twingypriceless
23:33.09bjorkBSDwhat's nurbana?
23:33.14brlcadheh
23:33.38Twingyit's nothing more than a memory :)
23:35.10brlcadit was the next "rhino", left to rot after lack of feed .. and then carved up for it's meat on the open market, right? ;)
23:35.41Twingythat pretty much sums it up
23:35.44bjorkBSDheheh.
23:35.51bjorkBSDwhat's wrong with brlCad twingy?
23:35.59bjorkBSDit's like rhino. only ... umm.
23:36.13TwingyI didn't know about brl-cad in 1999
23:36.22bjorkBSDthat was a long long time ago.
23:36.31``Erikalso; brl-cad isn't exactly rocking at nurbs...
23:36.39brlcadnor was it as readily open to use like it is today
23:36.39bjorkBSDno?
23:37.03brlcadthere's nurbs support, pretty extensive, but incomplete and slow
23:37.06bjorkBSDhmm it still makes people flee in horror on first contact
23:37.21brlcadthat's a lot of the work going on this year.. to totally reimplement the nurbs support (hence all the opennurbs stuff)
23:37.44brlcadyeah, mged is a major wart
23:38.04brlcadone that can actually cure cancer, but a wart nonetheless
23:38.25``Erikthermonuclear masochism device?
23:39.31dtidrow_worklol
23:44.26TwingyI still vividly remember the day when Lisa announced that Wendy got the branch chief position and everyone frowned at once, haha
23:44.40dtidrow_workheh
23:46.07bjorkBSDdamn
23:46.11bjorkBSDhow do i get out of jove? :(
23:46.17bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
23:46.18brlcadhah
23:46.19``Erikheh
23:46.28bjorkBSDi didn't even know it was here until you mentioned it.
23:46.28``Erikjove--, vi++
23:46.40brlcadthat's the "trick" .. they've been stuck in jove for 20+years ;)
23:47.06brlcadtry ctrl-x-c or ctrl-x ctrl-c
23:47.11``Erik(seriosuly, the "search for a real editor; is emacs found? no? build jove" shit is uncool) :D
23:47.35dtidrow_workTwingy: some things you could build with that mill of yours: http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/photo2.htm
23:47.41Twingyif jove00, and vi++, then nano^=1 ?
23:48.03Twingyyep
23:48.10TwingyI have a stirling and a steam engine on my lifes todo list
23:48.24``Erikwhat kind of steam engine?
23:48.32``Erikece reciprocal?
23:48.41dtidrow_workI've been to their expo, back when it and I were both still in Michigan
23:48.42bjorkBSDi want a machine shop :(
23:48.54bjorkBSDimpossible!
23:48.57bjorkBSDare you  talking about a kettle?
23:49.03``Erikteh sterling engine out of soda cans was cool
23:49.12brlcadnope, it's a real steam engine.. a small one, but real
23:49.19bjorkBSDwow! how'd you get it?
23:49.36brlcadlong time ago as a kid
23:49.45brlcadhobby shop had one iirc
23:49.58``Erikfunctional steam engine...
23:50.22dtidrow_workthey run off compressed air, too
23:50.47brlcada little bit like this, but actually a little smaller and with front wheels too ;)  http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/01-20L.jpg
23:50.58``Erikanything with a pressure differential, actually
23:51.21``Eriksteam involves a state change, so there's a huge pressure differential from a fairly minor temperature change
23:51.28``Erikweee, thermo
23:53.34brlcadhere we go: http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/wid365big.jpg
23:53.43brlcadi thought about making a cad model of that at one point
23:53.59brlcaddidn't want to take it apart though..
23:56.08brlcadgood stuff: http://www.toysteam.net/
23:56.08brlcadheh, this would be cool to mill Twingy: http://www.neatstuff.net/space-robots/Steambot-ST-II.html
23:56.42brlcad"please feed me water.. *mauuuuwww*"
23:58.15``Erikah, a steam tractor, even
23:58.31``Erikthe one I saw at the exchange was a stnading engine, not a tractor :) just a boiler and piston
23:58.54brlcadthey have one of those too
23:59.02brlcadthe locomotive is more interesting
23:59.43``Erik8? hah
23:59.47``Erikmight as well be using a single core
23:59.48``Erik:D
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070203

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070203

00:02.39MaloeranEh, it will come handy to test and improve scalability, play with global illumination, SURVICE's fire simulations, AI
00:03.45``Erikheh, the 2048 machien is useless
00:04.01MaloeranHow so?
00:04.01bjorkBSDMaloeran, do you work for SURVICE?
00:04.03``Erikthe 16 core machine is useless, the best I have that's useful is 12
00:04.16MaloeranAs a consultant, bjorkBSD
00:04.34bjorkBSDcool! is their version of brl-cad different?
00:04.35MaloeranHow are they useless, it requires paperwork to get to use them?
00:05.00``Erikthe 2048 machine has a cummulative load of more than 2000
00:05.08``Erikthe 16 core machine has a load of more than 20.
00:05.18``Erikthe 12 core machine has a load of like .2
00:05.19MaloeranThey are developing software built on top of BRL-CAD, such as Archer, I wouldn't know if their "version" is "different"..
00:05.26brlcadtheir version is not different, they just print up everything onto CD and create hard-copy user manuals as if you'd bought a boxed copy
00:06.09MaloeranNice Erik, that's what you get for using shared hardware
00:06.11brlcadthey also provide pre-compiled binaries and perform their own testing (including for windows, for example)
00:06.18bjorkBSDoh.
00:06.39MaloeranI'll get some AMD's Barcelone chips when they come out too, if you want an account on my home mini-cluster :)
00:06.44``Erik(many uneducated users look at a machines ability as a simple number of cpu's... they dont' subtract load from that... they don't understand the real difference between arch, os, clocks, etc)
00:07.08bjorkBSDthat's non-marketing speak, erik!
00:07.09``Erikobviously; the 8 cpu irix box is faster than the 1 processor linux box. because 8>1
00:07.29``Erikn/m that the irix box has 150mhz r10k's and the linux box has a 3.6ghz
00:07.47bjorkBSDhow much is the 8cpu irix box?
00:07.58``Erikoh, and the irix box has a load of 15, and the linux box has 0.00
00:08.02bjorkBSD$98,000.00 without a keyboard, monitor, or mouse.
00:08.23``Erikkeyboards, monitors, and mice are not for machines that do real work.
00:08.28bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
00:08.44``Erikyou sit at a pretty graphical machine, maybe it can play videos and look at web pages
00:08.52``Erikbut crunch happens on machines in another room, mebbe another building
00:09.59bjorkBSDso how much does the 8 thing cost?
00:10.37MaloeranIt's 3k$ for a nice Xeon Clovertown 8 cores, if you would prefer that
00:11.07``Erikclovertown is a dual core die?
00:11.13``Erik4x2 ?
00:11.31Maloeran4 cores on a die, the latest Intel chip
00:11.36``Erikah, 2x4
00:11.44MaloeranThey don't produce motherboards with 4 sockets unfortunately
00:12.05MaloeranBut their memory bus wouldn't support that anyway, I think it's already going to be saturated with 8 cores
00:12.16dtidrow_workwhen is the quad-core Opterons coming out?
00:12.21``ErikI think the opteron machien I'm working on these days is 4 seperate sockets... might be 2x2... twingy spec'd it, monarch built it, I just do os shit
00:12.29MaloeranSecond quarter of 2007, they said
00:12.57dtidrow_workand I know they have quad-socket opteron mobos....
00:12.57brlcadwhere altix shines is that you can go up to 512 processors in a single image.. that is .. very cool
00:13.08dtidrow_workyep
00:13.11MaloeranThey have 8 sockets opteron motherboards actually
00:13.12brlcadno matter what the price, that's the top of the line
00:13.31dtidrow_workwell, I've seen the four-socket ones
00:13.36brlcadwith the price, it's quite expensive compared to a cluster based solution
00:13.49Maloeranbrlcad, I really wonder how that single huge memory bank can cope with the ever growing number of cores
00:13.59MaloeranAMD's NUMA is a simple and elegant solution
00:14.10brlcadlicensed from sgi :)
00:14.12dtidrow_workAltix is NUMA
00:14.20MaloeranAltix is NUMA as well? Oh.
00:14.22``Erikis it numa?
00:14.26``Erikaltix is numa, yes
00:14.27brlcadit came from them
00:14.29dtidrow_workSGI has had NUMA systems for a decade now
00:14.32``Erikwith big honkin' cables out the butt
00:14.36MaloeranNeat
00:14.43``Erikalmost as big as my forearm (I have narrow bones)
00:14.47brlcadwhich in turn came from an earlier craylink variant when sgi acquired cray
00:14.54dtidrow_workthe Onyx2's were NUMA
00:16.15brlcadthey've got it scaling nearly linearly up towards 512 processors.. but then I've read they've not been able to scale linearly much past that
00:16.39dtidrow_workI wonder why
00:16.39brlcadcourse that in itself is a major feat.. something nobody else can do still
00:17.02dtidrow_workindeed - a Linux-based kernel running on 512 CPU's  :-)
00:17.07brlcadIBM is probably closest.. but they peak out way before 512 with P5
00:18.11dtidrow_workis S_I (they dropped the 'G' last year) still circling the drain, or have they stabilized?
00:18.34MaloeranYou'll have to sacrifice a few processors to "manage" others as it grows, but it should still scale very well if they got the memory architecture right
00:19.47brlcaddropped the G?  I know they dropped the markey, but not a name change
00:19.52brlcads/markey/market/
00:20.23dtidrow_workwell, that's my name for them now
00:20.26brlcadah, heh
00:20.52dtidrow_workread, "S-blank-I"  ;-)
00:21.32MaloeranCool, the Gambian President announced that he can cure AIDS in 3 days
00:21.42brlcadMaloeran: aside from the OS needing to be custom tailored, that's what's particularly cool about what the altix does .. there's no special processing nodes or otherwise limitation on the architecture .. it acts like one massive 512-core machine
00:22.24MaloeranIt sounds quite neat, brlcad. I read briefly about the arch but it wasn't technical enough ; I even thought it was one main memory bank and not NUMA
00:23.14dtidrow_workheh
00:23.41Twingy2 cpus dual core
00:27.40MaloeranDual-core is so 2006. :)
00:30.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/ (172 files in 32 dirs):
00:30.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the zlib website,
00:30.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: this eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding invalid
00:30.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a potential security
00:30.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data (VU#680620 /
00:30.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for details.
00:31.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
00:31.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: update of the bundled zlib from version 1.2.2 to 1.2.3; per the zlib website,
00:31.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: this eliminates a potential security vulnerability when decoding invalid
00:31.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: compressed data (VU#238678 / SA11129) as well as eliminates a potential security
00:31.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: vulnerability when decoding specially crafted compressed data (VU#680620 /
00:31.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: SA15949). other updates included, see the zlib release notes for details.
00:39.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: follow zlib's makefile and generate example and minigzip binaries (test compilation/linking if anything). make them noinst.
00:39.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/.cvsignore: add example and minigzip
00:44.33louipcMaloeran: so what's the new trend for 2007?
00:46.56bjorkBSDmore screen time :)
00:47.38louipchahaha
01:04.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: example.c doesn't belong in the library
01:54.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 13 dirs): remove duplication of zlib's public headers from our include/ dir; have configure provide a LIBZ_CPPFLAGS that points to src/other/zlib instead.
02:01.09MaloeranSean, how many people get an email every time you commit? :)
02:02.33brlcadheh, dunno exactly
02:03.10brlcadnot a massive list, some join all the lists and then shortly after unsubscribe to commits .. :)
02:04.06MaloeranI wonder why! :)
02:07.58Twingyhooray grapes
02:14.13TwingyI love this charger
02:15.01Twingybacklit blue lcd, programmable to charge/discharge user selectable cycles, current, battery type, figures out how many cells in the battery, doesn't get any better
02:20.19TwingyI hate how opengl display lists store the modelview matrix and use that in glGetDoublev instead of the current one
02:23.42Twingy<Raven> I tried setting my hotmail password to penis. <Raven> It said my password wasn't long enough. :(
02:28.39louipchigh tech
02:29.31Twingyyep
02:29.35Twingyback in the day
02:29.44TwingyI'd have to wait 15 hours for both batteries to recharge
02:29.52Twingycause all you had was the trickle charger
02:30.12Twingygranted even today that ensures the longest possible battery life
02:30.31Twingybut I don't mind losing 10% of my battery cycles if I can go from 15 hours to 15 minutes
02:30.59Twingybattery died at the field, time to go home
02:31.10Twingynow if it dies at the field, wait 20 minutes and you are up in the air again
02:31.57bjorkBSDTwingy have you ever read any of gingery's books?
02:32.25louipcI'd like nuclear power in a battery
02:32.59TwingyI don't have time to read books
02:33.08TwingyI'm always building something or writing code
02:33.19Twingyand when I'm not doing that I'm passed out on my bed
02:34.06Twingythe last book I read and enjoyed was NURBS - a Monograph in visual communications
02:35.34bjorkBSDhe wrote a series on building a machine shop from scrap.
02:36.07Twingyokay...
02:36.30louipcnice
02:36.57bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
02:37.01louipcI still wonder how the first straightedge was created
02:37.22bjorkBSDwith a spirit level :-j
02:37.33louipcor how they go the first lathes to run perfectly true
02:37.59bjorkBSDit was trial after trial after trial.
02:38.12bjorkBSDthen they looked at the horizon and it matched.
02:38.17Twingylouipc, a piece of string and a rock, let gravity do the work?
02:38.35bjorkBSDor they used a string.
02:38.55Twingythat's how I'dve done it *shrug*
02:39.44louipcI'm just imagining to make accurate machines you need machines, but you need them to be very accurate as well
02:40.24Twingythat was true until laser measurement came around
02:40.37louipcbut I guess you could make a precise machine from a not-as-precise machine but it would be very tough
02:40.45louipchehe they didn't have lasers back in the day
02:40.46Twingynow you just use the phase angle and you've got perfect measurement
03:33.04MaloeranWhat the... Gentoo dropped xmms, for some reason, it's out of the package tree entirely
03:34.09Twingyspyware!
03:34.32bjorkBSDTwingy, what kinda projects do you work on?
03:34.37bjorkBSD... in your shop, ie.
03:37.35MaloeranOfficial reason : "Gentoo can't afford to offer unmaintained packages"
03:38.49TwingybjorkBSD, you mean my garage?
03:39.45bjorkBSDyeah.
03:40.10Twingywell, my big project I'm gearing up for is my next generation rocket motors
03:40.18Twingygetting away from the monopropellant stuff
03:40.31Twingyand to do that I needed a cnc mill and software for it
03:40.35louipcyep gentoo annoyed the heck out of me so I switched to archlinux
03:40.39louipcI love it
03:40.42Twingyand I wasn't about to spend $$$ on cnc software
03:40.52Twingyso I hit source forge
03:40.56Twingyand didn't find crap
03:40.57bjorkBSDheheheh
03:41.02bjorkBSDand now you have to write your own.
03:41.06Twingyright
03:41.09Twingyand 1 year later
03:41.09louipcmaking packages is easy too I'm making one for BRLCAD
03:41.14TwingyI have cnc software
03:41.19bjorkBSDwonderful!
03:41.24Twingyand now I can make my rocket motors
03:41.35TwingyI still need to be able to make pcb's
03:41.41bjorkBSDi don't have space for a foundry.
03:41.41louipcTwingy: you do 3D work on the CNC?
03:41.46Twingywhich requires spending 2-3 weeks parsing gerber files
03:41.54bjorkBSDor i'd be sandcasting the parts for a lathe right now.
03:41.57Twingylouipc, 2.5D planar and soon radial
03:42.13Twingystop calling it a foundry
03:42.17louipchehehe
03:42.19Twingyit's a pile of bricks and a $100 torch
03:42.23bjorkBSDhahaha
03:42.38bjorkBSDi'll turn off my gas and call it a space heater.
03:42.44bjorkBSDyours melts everything right?
03:42.47louipc2.5 = not all 3 Axis at once?
03:42.55louipc*moving at once
03:43.04Twingyit'll sustain 1kg object at 1700F no problem
03:43.21Twingylouipc, 2.5 means it can't do concave
03:43.28bjorkBSDwill i win a darwin award if i had it in my kitchen?
03:43.37Twingyyou have to build a jig and reposition or use 4th axis radial
03:43.45Twingyno
03:43.53Twingyfriend of mine has a taig in his dorm
03:43.54louipcwell depends on your cutter
03:43.58Twingyhe built a box around it
03:44.04Twingyso swarf doesn't fly everywhere
03:44.13bjorkBSDi can see having a lathe or a mill ...
03:44.14louipcyeah good idea
03:44.24bjorkBSDbut the expensive torch is another story.
03:44.26louipcput in some coolant too ;)
03:44.37Twingyyou don't need coolant for aluminum
03:45.01Twingyyou just run it at 2.0 ipm @ 0.01" layers
03:45.11louipcyou can increase your speeds and get better finish
03:45.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test opennurbs regardless of setting. ws, indent to 4 and tab at 8 like everything else for the entire functionality section.
03:45.27Twingylouipc, you can also do a final pass @ 0.001" and get same result
03:45.43TwingyI also polish my stuff
03:45.47TwingyI have a floor drill press
03:45.51TwingyI put in my buffer
03:45.55Twingyhit it with some rouge
03:46.00louipctoo many operations!
03:46.00Twingyand spend 30 seconds polishing
03:46.05louipcoh ok hah
03:46.25Twingydepends on if you want it shiney or not
03:46.46Twingygcam.js.cx
03:46.48bjorkBSDTwingy, do you have a url for your thingIamNotGonnaCallAFurnaceButBurnsRealHot ?
03:46.49Twingythat was polished
03:46.49louipcdo you know if there are any addons to emacs or vim for NC editing?
03:47.06TwingybjorkBSD, http://js.cx/~justin/images/alumiforge2/
03:47.12bjorkBSDthe plans for building one?
03:47.20Twingylouipc, download gcam
03:47.24Twingyyou won't need to edit
03:47.32TwingybjorkBSD, plans?
03:47.38louipcI do a lot of manual programming
03:47.38Twingygoto home depot and spend $10 on bricks
03:47.57bjorkBSDand the torch?
03:47.57Twingythey won't last as long as fire bricks
03:48.03Twingyhybridburners.com
03:48.07Twingy"Shorty"
03:48.24louipcgnucam eh?
03:48.28Twingygot the website from a guy that taught a ray-tracing session at siggraph
03:48.32Twingylouipc, yes
03:49.55bjorkBSDhah!
03:50.10bjorkBSDthey're not terribly cheap but it should be manageable :-?
03:50.41Twingyit um, takes some trial and error
03:51.06Twingyeventually your adhoc setup will let you cast decent size blocks of aluminum with minimal air bubbles
03:51.52Twingyjust remember that if you spill something like that on your foot it'll dissintegrate it
03:52.37Twingyand once you get a system down, you'll cut your aluminum costs to a quarter
03:52.39bjorkBSDdamn!
03:52.48Twingyprovided you can get soda cans and scrap aluminum for free
03:53.16bjorkBSDi'll have to fight with the homeless people around here :)
03:53.40TwingyI have more scrap aluminum and cans than I know what to do with right now
03:53.40MaloeranWith only 2 feet, that's not too much margin for trial and error
03:53.40TwingyI like to do 50/50 mix of 6061 and 3104 cans
03:53.40bjorkBSDwhere do you get them from, the recyclers?
03:53.48Twingywork
03:54.09Twingyif you have a recycle day, go around the night before and pilfer them all
03:54.15bjorkBSDhehehe
03:54.30Twingyum, my old chair
03:54.37Twingyhad an aluminum base, cut it up on my bandsaw
03:54.42Twingymy network rack is next to go
03:54.53Twingy~30lbs of aluminum there
03:55.11Twingyjust smelt it with 1% zinc
03:55.25bjorkBSDalright.
03:55.29Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/cgi-bin/aluminum.cgi
03:55.45Twingythat's what I charge
03:56.00bjorkBSDcool :)
03:56.07bjorkBSDwhere do you get the zinc from?
03:56.23Twingystuff
03:56.44Twingythe zinc fairy
03:56.58Twingythe usual
03:57.03bjorkBSDshe must be hawt!
03:58.00Twingyso I aim to have full in-house PCB and cnc production by summer
03:58.14bjorkBSDto launch your satelltes with right?
03:58.17bjorkBSD... the rockets, ie.
03:58.35Twingydunno about that, because that much propellant costs alot
03:58.56louipcI'd think you'd need more specialised aluminum for that eh
03:59.00Twingyonce I get the engineering and design down it's just a matter of scaling
03:59.16TwingyI haven't revealed my design yet
03:59.23bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
03:59.33Twingyone of those epiphanies
03:59.34bjorkBSDeverything created using open-source software right?
03:59.37MaloeranI'm sure you'll find a couple people willing to donate for such a geeky adventure :)
03:59.39Twingyright
03:59.45Twingywell
03:59.49bjorkBSDthe tech undergound.
03:59.54TwingyI'd like to patent the motor and donate to GNU patents
04:00.16bjorkBSDalright mr galt.
04:01.08TwingyI have a trailer for my truck
04:01.13Maloeran"Galt" : To murder a man without knowing
04:01.16Twingyif I scale it up I'll use that as the launch platform
04:01.52TwingyI'll put a tarp on it and drive to ohio where I have FAA clearance
04:02.06bjorkBSDwho is john galt, malorean ;)
04:02.15bjorkBSDwhich part of Ohio/
04:02.48MaloeranAh, definitely not someone I know
04:03.17Twingyhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15993507/
04:04.02bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
04:04.23Twingyif I have to drive any further I might not do it
04:04.41bjorkBSDbaltimore to ohio.
04:04.47bjorkBSDtha'ts a good 12 hrs
04:04.50Twingyyep
04:04.58bjorkBSDnever again!
04:05.31bjorkBSDi drove from AR to De over the new years.
04:05.41brlcad12 hours? maybe to the far west of OH
04:06.05brlcadI make it to detroit from here in 6-8 hours and that takes me through ohio
04:06.06bjorkBSD25 frigging hrs in my trusty '88 240 dl :)
04:06.47bjorkBSDah you must have driven through W. Va?
04:06.50brlcadthat's a lot of bathroom breaks :)
04:07.11bjorkBSD3 hrs of sleep and maybe 3 breaks.
04:07.15brlcadi've gone the wva route before, but it's not really faster .. spend a lot of time winding through the mountains
04:07.44bjorkBSDnot counting the endless refueling stops.
04:07.46brlcadacross pa turnpike into ohio
04:07.47Twingyin any case, it'll be fun
04:07.49bjorkBSDthose bricks are HEAVY!
04:08.15Twingy?
04:08.54bjorkBSDa 240DL stationwagon is a brick.
04:13.19Twingynext release of gcam after tonight will be stable
04:13.30louipcnice!
04:13.36Twingyonly took a year right?
04:13.52louipcthat's pretty good
04:15.48Twingywell it's a pretty simple program
04:15.54Twingyit's just got alot of caveats
04:15.58louipcI've only ever noticed projects here and there that are in 'planning' phase
04:16.07Twingyheh
04:16.10louipcnever releasing any code
04:16.14TwingyI skip right over planning and go into coding
04:16.17louipcI mean in the CAM arena
04:16.22louipcfor open source
04:16.31Twingymost CAM people are computer scientists
04:16.41Twingymachinists + computer scientists are a rare breed
04:16.54Twingy*aren't
04:16.57Twingymeh
04:17.00bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
04:17.02Twingyyou get my drift
04:17.07bjorkBSDyeah.
04:17.35louipcaren't? so why isn't there an open source package rivaling mastercam?
04:17.47louipcwho wants to pay $30,000 in licensing fees
04:18.24TwingyI'm not trying to rival mastercam
04:18.29Twingymastercam is overly complicated
04:18.29bjorkBSDwhat's mastercam?
04:18.39Twingyit's like brl-cad
04:18.42Twingyit does everything
04:18.48TwingyI'm not trying to do everything
04:18.52Twingysimpler the better
04:18.58bjorkBSDthe unix way
04:19.01louipcyeah mastercam could be a bit simpler
04:19.07louipchehe
04:19.12Twingyinstead of completely extracting the user from the machine
04:19.13bjorkBSDlouipc, are you a machinist too?
04:19.18louipcyeap
04:19.22Twingythe user thinks in terms of what their machine will be doing as they model
04:19.25Twingythat's the gcam model
04:19.45TwingyI don't like the idea of sitting down to a computer, making a 3d model
04:19.54Twingyand having the computer choose the "best" tool paths
04:19.56louipcbut I'm no computer scientist.. more like a hobbist
04:20.08TwingyI like to control what my machine is doing and in what order
04:20.16bjorkBSDcool :)
04:20.30Twingyas complex as gcam will get is probly contour pocketing
04:20.38Twingyright now it does simple zig zag pocketing
04:20.57Twingycalculating the tool offsets for multiple level hierchies was a headache
04:21.23louipcyeah I agree with that, the computer can make really stupid unnecessary movements
04:21.29Twingyit takes the pro-engineer philosophy of sketching something and extruding it
04:21.32louipcthat's why I like to program manually heh
04:22.09Twingyif some one wants to go in and make gcam have pretty anisotropic globally illuminated 3d shaded models that's fine
04:22.12Twingybut wire frame is fine
04:22.34louipcthat would be nice
04:22.44Twingyseems overzealous to me
04:22.53Twingyeventually I want to have assemblies
04:23.03Twingyso I take something big "like a submarine"
04:23.10Twingyand I break it into parts I can mill on my taig
04:23.15louipcwire frame can numb the brain I find
04:23.20Twingysee the whole thing and see just the part I'm going to cnc mill
04:23.40Twingyfor example
04:23.41louipchehe so you're taking on catia then eh?
04:23.49Twingyimagine if after you get down to the lowest region in brl-cad
04:23.52bjorkBSDi thought brl-cad > catia :P
04:23.59Twingyyou had gcam that displayed the tool paths
04:24.04Twingyfor cutting that hmmwv
04:25.12louipcyeah that would be great
04:25.12brlcadcatia is mostly a different market
04:25.32brlcadand considerably more developed on the interface side of things on many levels (they've had billions invested)
04:26.12Twingygcam has had about $60 invested :)
04:26.29brlcadheh, not quite :)
04:26.37brlcadyou're time is worth more than 0.02 cents :)
04:26.45Twingydon't kid yourself! :)
04:26.47brlcadheh
04:27.01Twingy0.015 cents tops
04:27.10Twingyyou act like I know how to write code or something
04:27.26Twingylook at photon mapping!
04:27.30Twingynuff said
04:27.41brlcadheh
04:29.20TwingyPEANUT BUTTAH JELLY TIME!
04:29.30brlcadwhere it at, where it at
04:29.31louipcoh yea
04:29.49Twingywhere are you living now?
04:32.19brlcadwith a baseball bat?
04:32.54Twingyyou're living with a baseball bat?
04:33.22brlcadpeanut butter jelly with a baseball bat!
04:33.51Twingywhere it at where it at!
04:37.52Twingyk
04:37.57Twingywindows portage
04:41.47Twingyhttp://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/01/boston.bombscare/
04:42.54louipcthey would answer questions only about hair awesome
04:51.41louipcTwingy will you set up a CVS or SVN server for gcam eventually?
05:34.14Twingyonce I finish cleaning a few things up
05:34.46TwingyI don't want to see things thing get bloated with goofy features
05:35.15TwingyI think it's going to attract a bunch of people that just learned how to write c++ code and want to add buttons galore
05:44.42louipchehe
05:45.16louipcwhat's that version of emacs that brlcad uses?
05:47.55Twingyhttp://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7424511&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat107700050032&id=1122655672294
05:48.15bjorkBSDlouipc, jove
05:48.26louipcah right
05:48.29bjorkBSDit's scary. none of the vi commands work in it.
05:48.37louipcjeff's own version of emacs?
05:48.49louipcor john
05:49.01bjorkBSDjonathan
05:49.30louipcwhy should vi commands work in emacs?... but you could probably set it up to do so
05:50.18louipcTwingy: sweeet
05:51.03bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
05:51.34brlcadit's not exactly a "version of emacs", save a fork from a really long time ago when emacs was but a baby
05:51.51brlcadthere is a vi-mode for emacs
05:52.05louipcthat's what I mean 'a fork'
05:52.56bjorkBSDi was being silly.
05:53.41louipcnah i think it's silly that there's a vi-mode
05:53.58bjorkBSDi think it's awesome.
05:54.06bjorkBSDit makes emacs more useable.
05:54.11louipcwhy not just use vim? hah
05:54.12bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
05:54.40bjorkBSDa text editor w/o modes. that's just wrong.
05:54.59louipcfeels right to me
05:55.07bjorkBSDmged has 6 modes! that's even better.
05:55.13louipcI grew up with windows ahem
05:55.27bjorkBSDi grew up with dos and as soon as i could, i abandoned it.
05:55.31bjorkBSD*spits on it*
05:55.32louipcbut I'm only using vim now ... to educate myself
05:55.45bjorkBSDthe fastest way is to use ed :)
05:55.52bjorkBSDyou'll be forced to learn what you need to.
05:56.06bjorkBSD... and in no time at all.
05:56.07louipcand it seems less needlessly huge than emacs
05:59.16louipcohh ed nooo
06:37.16Maloeranhttp://darkmonkey.org.uk/4/1/1153390177481.jpg
06:37.51louipc!
06:46.49brlcadheh, that's quite a lot of moving parts
06:47.33brlcadapparently 256GB/drive if I count correctly, not too shabby
07:01.09brlcadwow, I like this guy's /. comment .. can be applied to most religion wars
07:01.11brlcad"Linux is like a religion for people who really ought to be putting their intelligence to better use than a religion. Stop wasting time thinking of ways to get your neighbours to accept Linux as their personal saviour from malware, and start teaching yourself C++ and get to work improving things."
07:07.00MaloeranA healthy dose of advertissing is still necessary, even if such words of mouth is no match for Microsoft's marketing budget for example
07:08.23MaloeranI don't think there's an unbalanced amount of Linux zealots in comparison to other aspects of life.  Some people out here pratically live for some sportive team, their future car or next television
07:13.06brlcadwhat you mean by "unbalanced" is certainly curious, but sure there are fans and beliefs in just about every aspect of life
07:13.27brlcadthe whole argument is probably a difference on whether that advertising really is necessary or not
07:14.07brlcadproof by action, example, and advancement or by what effectively amounts to manipulation or convincing
07:14.22brlcadmerit to both sides I think
07:18.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rle_getraw.h: remove the obsolete rle_getraw.h header .. was renamed to rle_raw.h in a prior urt update
07:20.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/Makefile.am: reorder
07:21.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs):
07:21.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: remove the libutahrle headers (utah raster toolkit) from our include/ directory,
07:21.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: and move them up to src/other/libutahrle/include. let configure set
07:21.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: RLE_CPPFLAGS and set accordingly amongst the various tools/libraries that need
07:21.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: to know the path.
07:50.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: provide CPPFLAGS for tcl, tk, itcl, itk, and termlib
08:02.22CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (8 files in 6 dirs): move libterm.h back to termlib's own directory and make everyone use TERMLIB_CPPFLAGS to get the search path
08:44.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 4 dirs): remove the itcl/itk header files from our include/ directory, moving them back up to src/other/incrTcl. utilize the new ITCL_CPPFLAGS and ITK_CPPFLAGS accordingly.
10:34.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (56 files in 50 dirs):
10:34.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: *yawn* remove one of the big two remaining public header sets from our include/
10:34.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: directory. remove tcl headers from include/ and utilize the TCL_CPPFLAGS so
10:34.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: compilation pulls headers from within src/other/libtcl instead. since bu.h and
10:34.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: raytrace.h include tcl foo, this implicates a change across almost the entire
10:34.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: build to add the new CPPFLAGS.
10:35.09brlcadi suppose that's enough damage for now
10:42.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): take a blind guess that since these parts of adrt have/use bu.h that they similarly need tcl_cppflags now too
13:26.40*** join/#brlcad cad60 (n=a87ebb52@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:26.49cad60hello
13:26.55cad60hello~
13:27.00cad60anyone here??
13:38.33``Erikheh
13:44.37archivist2 nano seconds to answer else timeout
14:03.30``Erikchildren these days have no patience.
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19:08.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: group the converters with their flags, sort.
20:07.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (19 files in 12 dirs): last one, remove the tk headers from our include/ directory. use the TK_CPPFLAGS automake variable instead, pointing to the headers in src/other/libtk/generic/ dir
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22:55.21*** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070204

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070204

02:01.43*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net)
02:06.03louipchey there do you know how brlcad displays the manual from mged. I get the error message 'browser not found... exec $mged_browser -display...'
02:10.28``Erikhuh?
02:17.52brlcadlouipc: ah, yes .. it tries a set list of browsers depending on the environment and what is found in the path
02:27.26louipchow do I point it in the right direction? -grin-
02:30.33MaloeranConvert matrix of your arm's orientation to quaternions, SLERP towards the right direction, interpolate until t = 1.0
02:31.27louipchmm
02:32.56louipcjust trying to figure out how to get mged to find my browser to display the manual
02:33.33louipcaha ok I created .mgedrc and I see it
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02:36.10louipchmm didn't work
03:44.22*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096781862.dsl.bell.ca)
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11:42.37cad91Hello
11:45.17*** join/#brlcad Nordine (n=Nordine@88.140.51.130)
11:45.38NordineHello everybody
11:46.06NordineI just have a little question about brlcad
11:47.12*** part/#brlcad Nordine (n=Nordine@88.140.51.130)
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15:02.11``Erikheh
15:53.21louipcsomeone should add 'Please stand by for your questions to be answered, or send an email.'
15:53.27louipcto the topic or something
15:54.38bjorkBSDwhich questions have been asked here so far?
15:54.38bjorkBSDbesides the one i just asked :P
15:54.54brlcad:)
15:55.01louipcnone, but people come in and seem to test if anyone is around then leave promptly
15:55.18bjorkBSDoh you want a greet bot?
15:55.32brlcadthe nature of cgi:irc, seems to kill brain cells
15:55.43louipchey not a bad idea
15:55.53louipchehe @ brlcad
16:15.26louipcbjorkBSD: hey that's a neat idea
17:17.19brlcadlouipc: saw http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?do_Details&ID=8320 .. nifty
17:57.53louipc:D still needs a bit of tweaking I think
17:58.14louipckind of just a test, I should change it to use the CVS
17:59.52louipcthe 'malicious code' thing is just a paranoid warning that most user contributed packages have hah
18:05.00brlcadlouipc: would it be alright if I add the install file to cvs?
18:11.14Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/twinstar.mp4
18:26.05louipcbrlcad: no problem
18:26.17louipcadd the tarball
18:26.44louipcbecause it contains the three files you need for the archlinux install
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23:12.56MaloeranI have been reading technical information about Intel's Clovertown chips, rather than "official" benchmarks and propaganda, and I'm having serious doubts
23:13.23MaloeranThe 1066mhz is shared by all 8 cores, 133mhz of RAM bandwidth per core
23:13.36MaloeranThe 1066mhz bus, that is
23:14.46MaloeranExcept if the dataset fits in the 4mb caches, this is really going to crawl
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070205

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070205

00:45.51*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.112.196)
06:09.53louipcyeah you'd need more bandwidth than that for 8 cores definitely
06:16.43MaloeranIt's ridiculous, I think my old Pentium ( 1995 ) has that much bandwidth to main memory
06:18.52MaloeranOops it wasn't double-rate though. Okay, it has half that bandwidth
06:19.40louipcmy current system does that anyways and it's 6 yrs old
06:20.02louipcI'm thinking of getting a core 2 duo
06:21.42MaloeranI'm thinking I'll wait AMD's Barcelone chips next, far superior memory archtiecture
06:21.46Maloeranarchitecture, rather
06:29.44louipcoh they're going 128-bit already?
06:30.07MaloeranEh? No, there's no way we'll ever exceed a 64 bits addressing space :)
06:30.36MaloeranI mean it scales properly with the amount of cores, distinct memory banks and bus
06:30.40louipcok I just read something in a news article hah
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09:53.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/libz/libz.dsp:
09:53.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: needed for win32-msvc runtime libraries branch
09:53.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: example.c doesn't belong in the library
09:57.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): include libtcl header files
09:58.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: include libtcl and libz header files
10:00.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.dsp: include libz header files
11:11.32*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
15:57.48``Erikno way we'll ever exceed a 64b addressing space? hmmmm, kinda like 640k should be enough for anyone? :D
15:59.02Maloeran18 million tetrabytes? There's a physical problem, we need enough atoms to contain the information
15:59.34``Erik18m? my computation says that unsigned would be 16 exabytes...
16:00.21MaloeranErr, not the zeroes, the digits
16:00.22``ErikI typed 2^64, copied the number into units, then asked
16:00.23``Erik:)
16:00.49archivistjust wait 6 months for the ram to appear on the market and 5 months for microsoft to need more
16:02.19``Erikand if ya had one molecule for every bit, you'd still have 4080 2^64 spaces in one avagadro's number
16:07.19``Erikand a mole of copper is 63.55 grams
16:08.20``Erikerr, wait, sorry, 2^128, rather
16:08.46``Erikdangit, now I went and confused myself
16:10.22archivisthmm is that too heavy for my laptop
16:10.25``Erikhm, mebbe 68 bit instead
16:48.12Maloeran"[...] desire to run very fast would preclude distributed/network processing ... no?"  What have you guys done for managers to think that distributed processing == slow? :)
17:58.33``Erikwhere'd you read that?
18:01.50MaloeranMark's reply about distributed processing for their fire modelling
18:02.43``Erikhm, I can name two projects here that you've heard about that are distributed, extremely slow, and virtually non-scalable.
18:03.13MaloeranEheh, I thought so
18:03.53``Erikimho; both use tiny work quanta and poor aggregation techniques.
18:04.14``Erikthey're "chatty", too
18:05.33MaloeranI'm just amused by the assumption that distributed processing would make things slower. Why would we distribute processing if it weren't for speed? :)
18:06.16``Erikdistributed processing induces overhead, if you don't keep it in mind, you actually do get software that runs slower :)
18:06.27``Erikwhich is why the production one is usually run serially
18:23.46``Erikhm, my escape key is sticking :(
18:34.58Maloeranfell*
18:39.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 3 dirs): unmagic some numbers
22:27.31*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096781862.dsl.bell.ca)
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22:48.22*** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168057882.dsl.bell.ca)
23:40.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am:
23:40.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: either PNG_NO_MMX_CODE or PNG_NO_ASSEMBLER_CODE are required for successful
23:40.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: compilation on AMD64 Linux with gcc due to linking of 32-bit assembly with
23:40.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 64-bit object files. compiling with -m32 avoids the problem but just tack on
23:40.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: PNG_NO_MMX_CODE for now since that doesn't limit compilation/features like the
23:40.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: other two options. should probably test for this mix in configure and set some
23:40.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: cppflags accordingly.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070206

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070206

01:45.42*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net)
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14:20.27``Erikhrmph
16:42.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/weight.sh:
16:42.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: update script being used for comparison. whitespace differences cause the test
16:42.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: to fail where it should succeed. include timestamp lines and the density table
16:42.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: lines since the script strips them anyways, otherwise a whitespace script might
16:42.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: collapse too many consecutive blank lines.
16:43.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/weight.sh: use name of script as prefix, not wgt
17:52.53*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.171.80)
19:46.01*** join/#brlcad tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:55.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Add support for building the Pro/E converter, and specifying Pro/E installation path.
19:57.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: Switch conditional name to WITH_PROE to mirror configure flags.
20:00.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/Makefile.am: Update pro/e makefile to support compilation on Linux.
20:02.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/protk.dat.in: Modify text and library locations to support execution on Linux
20:32.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
20:32.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: instead of automatically modifying the configure.ac file if there are
20:32.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: unsupported known macros being used, just report what those macros are and
20:32.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: blather on about how that really indicates that probably the version of the
20:32.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: autotools is specified incorrectly in autogen.sh or that inappropriate macros
20:32.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: are being used in configure.ac.
20:40.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: if librt has opennurbs symbols, include the opennurbs library so that the library will hopefully be fully resolved and contained.
20:56.22``Erikbrlcad, got an error spinning up here... think it's related to the tcl import
21:43.22tofuhrm.. still odd
21:44.00tofutcl hasn't been updated yet, but that's what I'm working on now/today/as I type
21:45.56tofua quick cursory search into the error seems to indicate it's actually something wrong/specific to the regex.h that tcl provides.. I'd be inclined to just remove their regex code, but first see if 8.5a5 has the same problem
21:46.38*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754251.dsl.bell.ca)
21:48.56*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
22:35.20``Erikhm, it almost look like tcl can resolve symbols using regex... I've eliminated all the regex shtuff and I get three files complaining: tclCmdIL.c, tclCmdMZ.c and tclFileName.c
23:21.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
23:21.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: since AC_OUTPUT won't touch the brlcad_config.h.in template if it already exists
23:21.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: and is unmodified, explicitly touch the file. this of course updates the
23:21.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: timestamp and avoids an unnecessary invocation of config.status and autoheader
23:21.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: in the include/ directory on subsequent compilations.
23:28.07*** join/#brlcad mac- (i=mac@banda.pl)
23:28.07mac-hi there
23:33.06mac-BRL-CAD is something like Catia or SolidWorks ?
23:46.55louipcyep
23:47.29mac-gr8
23:47.30mac-:>
23:47.31louipcbrlcad doesn't do CAM though
23:47.35louipconly CAD
23:47.44mac-and there is any good documentation or manual ?
23:48.07louipcbut you could write add-ons to brlcad to add functionality
23:48.29louipcyeah visit http://www.brlcad.org
23:54.18*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-168-191.ks.ks.cox.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070207

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070207

00:07.55brlcadmac-: there is fairly extensive introductory material on the main website:  http://brlcad.org
00:08.17mac-ok
00:08.21brlcadah, oop.. thx louipc  :)  I should finish reading first..
00:08.28mac-do you know any good CAD for Linux ?
00:09.17brlcader, you mean other than brl-cad?
00:09.26mac-for drafting
00:09.33brlcadah.. CADD
00:09.38mac-similar to AutoCAD
00:10.06brlcadthe only readily available one is qcad
00:10.22mac-uhm
00:10.43brlcad(free at least)
00:10.50mac-i downloaded GraphiteOne, but i couldn`t launch it
00:10.51brlcadand with any production quality
00:11.19mac-and their support hasn`t reply for my questions
00:12.47brlcadah, I don't follow the commercial products that closely, even less those specific to drafting, even further less those that aren't open source
00:13.05brlcad(sorry, just not our concern/interest)
00:13.21mac-ok
00:13.24louipcI saw one called FreeCAD on sourceforge, I haven't tried it yet
00:13.57brlcadfreecad is mildly useful, but they're even farther from production quality than qcad
00:14.03louipcouch
00:14.55brlcadit just really takes too much time to build up the foundation for a CAD or CADD or CAM system to achieve production quality for generalized use
00:15.12brlcadmight find a tool or two specialized
00:15.56brlcadbut freecad and qcad and pythoncad and others try to cater to common audiences, and have a excessively major hill to fight
00:17.18louipcyeah definitely
00:17.44brlcadthat's one of the aspects where brl-cad shines -- even if you remove mged and the gui, there's roughly 100+ man-years of development
00:18.40dtidrow_workand at least 25 real years of development behind it
00:18.59louipcdo you think you can achieve a professional level GUI with tcl/tk?
00:32.04``Erikgiven the # of gui's professionally developed in tcl/tk... probably...
00:46.17brlcadlouipc: you can, and even brl-cad's archer shows a lot of what is possible in terms of a better gui more in line with several of the professional system interfaces
00:46.37brlcadthat said, our next generation gui probably won't be in tcl/tk
00:53.56bjorkBSDbut ... i thought brl-cad *was* professional!
00:54.21bjorkBSDbrilly wears a uniform no?
01:00.38brlcada professional-quality gui? no, that's one of the things it does lack .. in production professional use with professional-quality engine facilities, yes
01:02.23bjorkBSDwhat will the next gui be in?
01:03.54bjorkBSDin the beginning was the CL, and lo, man took one look at the CLI and thought it was bad. and man created the mouse to eat the CL but verily verily i say unto ye, the CLI served as a useful barrier to entry and kept the waifs away :D
01:08.40louipc@brlcad what are you considering for the next GUI?
01:10.14louipcbjorkBSD: hehe I find the CLI can actually be more efficient if you know what you're doing, and it is well designed
01:12.11bjorkBSDyeah. i hear vista's reintroduced it :D
01:12.38bjorkBSDas far as command line completion goes.
01:12.54louipcoh tab completion?
01:13.15bjorkBSDsomething like that. i saw it in a youtube video
01:13.36louipcI've heard bad things about vista, and not from windows users nonetheless
01:13.37bjorkBSD... they've had it in iexplorer for ages, but it seems it's use has been broadened.
01:14.21louipcI tried XP because a linux user said it was the best thing since 3.1 or something. That didn't last for me hah.
01:14.32louipcbad things... *and from windows users...
01:14.46louipctypo
01:14.50bjorkBSDhehe
01:15.08bjorkBSDi have a windows partition i reboot to every now and then.
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04:44.31MaloeranCould anyone tell me what's the common memory and processing models within HPC clusters? I received from a non-programmer by email information that conflicts with my assumptions
04:44.39MaloeranKeywords to wikipedia would do too
04:46.16*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
06:36.10brlcadlouipc: the CLI is not going away in the least and would actually be more a part of the foundation to the interface (e.g. anything you could do in the gui would be exposed on the cli and vice-versa)
06:39.55brlcadit would be just more of a focus on designing a gui that actually works, is efficient, more consistent, is readily pluggable, and not nearly as much of a bear to maintain/improve as mged's is
06:41.41MaloeranNevermind the question about cluster processing, Mark had some... weird ideas on the topic :)
06:43.43brlcadmost custom designs in general with data localized/replicated in-core or is spread across some out-of-core storage and loaded as needed
06:48.24brlcadmost don't have shared process spaces or shared address spaces, but often have shared storage (but not always) so it usually boils down to whether disk memory is sufficient or whether to optimize replicaton/distribution over some communication pipe like tcp sockets, mpi, pvm, etc
06:49.30MaloeranShared address spaces, that exists?
06:49.44MaloeranIt goes against all I know, but it was what Mark apparently assumed
06:50.42brlcadthere's a few systems that do, some experimental, some more production
06:51.54MaloeranWoah... but..
06:52.38MaloeranIf the memory address space is shared, it must be a single system made of multiple processors ; you have one memory bank
06:53.07MaloeranIt wouldn't be too reasonable to get a page fault for every memory access and synchronize with other processing nodes constantly
06:53.35brlcadnot necessarily -- the kernel is simply written/geared towards managing the memory
06:53.51brlcadthat's the whole idea around single shared image systems in general
06:54.03brlcadmosix is probably the most popular/common one that you might have heard about
06:54.06brlcador openmosix
06:54.19brlcadahh, here's some references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-system_image
06:54.35MaloeranI really don't see how this could possibly work
06:55.07MaloeranThe only way for the kernel to know what memory is being modified or accessed is to trigger page faults
06:56.18brlcadthey do work ;)
06:56.27brlcadto varying degrees of coolness
06:56.33MaloeranDo you have any idea how, briefly?
06:56.44brlcadmosix gets away with it by simply migrating processes to balance load
06:56.45MaloeranHow can they track what's being read or written to synchronize the data?
06:56.58MaloeranYes, they can migrate processes, but they won't share address space
06:57.09MaloeranYou couldn't get shared memory between processes
06:57.15brlcadright, that's why they're only a partial SSI
06:57.42brlcadthere is still one shared address space, but it's no bigger than the smallest single system's available memory
06:58.07brlcadwhich isn't entirely true .. but a simple enough simplification
06:58.13MaloeranHow can they possibly synchronize that memory?
06:58.57brlcadthey don't really need too -- the process moves with it's memory
06:59.49MaloeranYes, yes, moving processes around is fine.  Now, let's say you have process A on the box M and process B on the box N. The two processes have 160mb allocated as shared memory which they use to communicate
07:00.14MaloeranHow are they going to manage and synchornize that memory between the two nodes?
07:00.53brlcadthat's the entire question behind just how do you do SSI
07:01.00brlcadeach of those ssi projects goes about it a different way
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07:01.22MaloeranI see no other way than constant page faults, which would make performance crawl
07:01.25brlcadsome are compiler mods coupled with specific kernels that are fed information about memory access
07:01.55brlcadjust because you can't imagine it doesn't mean someone else hasn't :)
07:02.14MaloeranI know that, but I'm asking how it works! :) I guess I should do some reading
07:03.24brlcadwell, you might also be thinking shared memory == shared address space and it doesn't
07:03.33brlcadat least not necessarily
07:04.07brlcadwhether you even can write C code on a lot of those systems is not possible -- some are very customized academic projects
07:04.24Maloeranbrlcad, the box M needs to "know" when the process A writes within the shard memory, so it can update it on box N
07:05.00MaloeranOkay, Mosix doesn't support shared memory
07:05.07brlcadwith shared memory -- sure, and there's ways a kernel could be written to propagate that
07:05.19brlcadyes, mosix doesn't
07:05.59brlcadit does process migration in a unified process address space
07:05.59MaloeranThe kernel must be told by the processor that writes occur to begin with ; that implies a page fault
07:06.29brlcadimplies a "fault" of some sort .. whether memory is managed in pages is an assumption in itself
07:06.55brlcadwhether that maps to hardware fault is yet another
07:07.33MaloeranRight, of course so. What I'm trying to say is that page faults, specifically assuming ia32/amd64 hardware, would cripple performance
07:08.08brlcadi believe openssi actually does shared memory across a unified address space
07:08.17brlcadthough I haven't looked into how they actually achieved it
07:09.04brlcadhey, you can't get it all for free -- if you're going to be accessing memory across a network link, performance is going to be crippled no matter how creative you get
07:10.05brlcadi mean you're talking the difference of a couple clock cycles to a few nanosecs at best
07:10.34brlcadwhich is of course...several orders
07:10.49brlcadthe fact that it'll even do it (and do it automatically) is what's amazing
07:11.12brlcadjust getting it to work at all has been something groups have been working on for longer than I've been alive :)
07:11.19MaloeranI'm asking this because Mark had the assumption that clusters could share memory address space, running threads over the processing network, which is of course incorrect
07:11.34MaloeranBut I thought there could be some weird cluster architecture I wasn't aware of
07:12.04brlcadnobody does individual thread-level yet afaik .. even mosix only does process-level
07:12.16brlcadthough openssi does thread-group migration iirc, one step closer
07:12.59MaloeranI don't know if it's really amazing, it's absolutely horrible by design :)
07:13.21brlcadopenssi might be what he was thinking .. or mosix for that matter and he really just meant unified address space instead of shared and running processes over the network instead of threads
07:13.38brlcadhorrible??
07:13.58MaloeranIf you want to distribute processing over a network, just write the software as such
07:14.18brlcadsome of those systems are nearly optimal for doing exactly that
07:14.18brlcadwith zero effort on your part
07:14.53MaloeranWithout shared memory, I still need to handle I/O between processes, I haven't gained anything
07:15.39brlcadperhaps, or maybe you have an application that is already well-designed to not have that assumption or need for interprocess communication
07:15.59brlcadyou're making a ton of assumptions about what matters, assumptions that don't hold for a lot of cases
07:16.37MaloeranRight, I should clarify : I'm thinking about distributed processing for a single problem, not running 100 distinct processes
07:17.09brlcadit also depends on the nature of the problem itself of course
07:17.38brlcadif you have a problem that can be independently parallelized, it can likely also be independently distributed seamlessly
07:18.10brlcad(with a given architecture (software and hardware)
07:18.25MaloeranTrue, but then there isn't much to gain from "apparently" running the 100 processes "locally" rather than booting them on the 100 boxes. It's a bit easier to manage surely
07:18.56brlcadwhether there's much to gain depends on the problem too :)
07:19.03brlcadsomething short-lived, yeah, not much gain
07:19.15brlcadsomething like the life of your rays, yeah not much gain
07:19.32brlcadsomething that took minutes/days/weeks to process.. it'd be incredibly useful
07:19.37MaloeranI see the point but it's really a matter of convenience, an user could start the processes on the other boxes "manually" too
07:19.57brlcadsure, but then I could have done that anyways..
07:20.12brlcadthe point of the cluster is to do that stuff for you with the least effort
07:20.46brlcadsometimes that least effort is by custom coding or using mpi or it's by going with a different cluster architecture that does things for you
07:20.56MaloeranRight, so it's a matter of convenience, I realize that
07:21.04brlcadmost of the popular (massive) clusters don't do SSI
07:21.17brlcadi think HP's cluster tech does, but nobody else
07:21.34brlcadeveryone else predominantly is geared towards mpi
07:23.07brlcadthat's what the network cards are optimizing for, the network stacks, etc.. if you want to efficiently scale up to 10k processors and not have to worry (as much) about bottlenecking yourself with interprocess/thread communication, mpi can help (even as heavy as it can be otherwise)
07:24.15MaloeranYes, MPI is a neat abstraction layer, I won't contest that :)
07:24.58brlcadcourse if your problem can take advantage of 10k processors or even 1k easily.. then there's not much advantage to be had by the alternative of custom coding some network layer yourself to avoid mpi's (variable) overhead .. even a "2x" savings on something that takes two weeks to compute isn't that interesting
07:26.25brlcadbecause those are generally problems that are entirely intractible/unfeasible/useless on smaller supercomputers
07:27.44brlcadit's still "at least a couple years" out before I'll be able to do a full-blown fluid dynamics simulation on a dual quad-core workstation to say the least.. ;)
07:28.16Maloeran:) Seems I'll have a chance to try that out soon
07:28.50brlcadfull-blown valid-physics down to something like millimeter accuracy at least
07:29.01MaloeranI have only read documentation and code about MPI, I'll try to move on from TCP/IP soon
07:29.23brlcadthere are tons of simplifications that can be made on an fluid problem to get them to work on workstations already
07:29.51MaloeranI'll probably get to rewrite SURVICE's fire simulation soon ( fluid dynamics ), it's really filled with simplifications
07:29.53brlcadMPI isn't "great" .. it's been so painful to achieve adoption because the API is a pita
07:30.36brlcadbut it's like democracy .. it's not great, but it's the best to have been conceived, adopted, and popularized to date
07:30.37MaloeranThe API of MPI seemed appropriate for its purpose... I may think differently when I get to use it
07:30.48brlcadit's gotten tons better
07:31.43MaloeranI was baffled by how slow SURVICE's fire modelling was, especially when I heard how much they simplified the problem. Never let engineers write code, in Fortran 77 too
07:37.52MaloeranIf I may, how much is there to lose by using MPI over more tailored specific solutions, for software running on 1-4 nodes or so?
07:52.58brlcadmpi for 1-4 nodes is frankly pointless -- that could just as easily be a command line option for that few nodes
07:55.06brlcad--run-on="node1, node2, node3, node4" etc.. fork a master than remote execs to the nodes or something else .. heck of a lot simpler code and trivial to manage the communication between them without worring about a major bottleneck
07:56.42brlcadit's only once it's over like 16 that it starts to get "hard" imho and things start to matter
07:57.38brlcadhow much you loose depends on lot on how many MPI calls you make and how much interprocess/thread communication is going on (which you generally want to minimize of course as much as possible)
07:58.59brlcadcompared to strait-up custom tcp, I've seen the mpi overhead be as low as only a couple percent to being a couple hundred
08:00.05brlcadthe main benefit of course being that tcp was easy to write for smaller counts of nodes .. but quickly doesn't scale for larger and larger node counts where mpi scales considerably better and doesn't have to be maintained/debugged/tweaked
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15:30.07MaloeranThanks for the reply, brlcad, I was asleep by then
15:39.28``Erikmal: have ya read up on 'numa'?
15:39.52MaloeranSure, some time ago
15:40.39``Erikhrm, didja forget it? :D (given your conversation before you went to bed, I'd assume...)
15:40.53MaloeranWe should store a whole copy of geometry and graphs per memory bank, and have specific threads access it... but I haven't read about the software interfaces to do so
15:41.15``Erikit's a cluster form with a unified memory space on several independant nodes, each with its own cpu and memory...
15:41.16MaloeranThe discussion wasn't really related to NUMA, it was about distributed processing over multiple nodes
15:42.10MaloeranThe count of processors in such a design is kept very low, is it not? Up to 16 for an octo-dual-opteron
15:42.24``Erikan altix is a numa cluster of small single cpu ia64 machines using sgi's numalink to get unsucky bandwidth between 'em and a hacked up suse to handle processor and memory affinity
15:43.15MaloeranThat's one single machine though, not a cluster
15:43.23``Erikno, it's a cluster
15:43.51``Erikif I walk up to one, it's a bunch of seperat 2u machines, I could pull the numa cables off the back, put in a hard drive and install an os on that one machine
15:44.21``Erikhttp://www.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/information/hardware/altix350_front.jpg
15:44.24MaloeranDo opteron clusters work the same way?
15:45.15``Erikit doesn't matter what the cpu is, it depends on the kernel and interconnect (using something like ethernet would make it absolutely horrible)
15:46.04MaloeranSo the Opteron clusters Mark spoke of do have an unified memory space?
15:46.06``Erikthe opteron clusters I have are not numa, they're regular ethernet tcp/ip nodes, each with independant kernels that don't try to assume anything about eachother, and a single disk attachment
15:46.16``ErikI don't know which clusters mark spoke of... :)
15:46.56MaloeranSo opteron clusters do exist having a global memory address space by NUMA?
15:47.32``ErikI would be surprised if they didn't *shrug* like I said, what cpu it is and NUMA are unrelated
15:48.35``ErikI could take a stack of old 486's running 10baseT and hack up a numa kernel for 'em... it'd suck, but it's doable
15:48.39``Erikor, heh, numaPIC :D
15:48.50MaloeranIt's certainly not running on a standard motherboard then!
15:49.05``Eriksure it is... numa is a kernel hack
15:49.32MaloeranNUMA is a hardware solution
15:49.32``Erikok, if you miss on level1 cache, it goes to level3... if it misses there, maybe it goes to memory... if it misses there, it goes to swap, right?
15:49.51MaloeranThat's not a kernel solution until it misses memory and trigger a page fault
15:49.52``Erikshove 'other nodes' inbetween memory and swap, that's numa
15:50.03``Erikno, numa is a kernel hack that lets you fake unified memory
15:50.08``ErikNUMALink is a hardware solution
15:50.09MaloeranA page fault per memory access is not practical
15:50.22``Erikyeah it is, IF you have a low latency interconnect
15:50.36``Erikwhich is what NUMALink is... sgi's proprietary interconnect, designed with numa archs in mind
15:51.01MaloeranYou would spend 50000 times the processing time of *one* memory-accessing instruction to handle that page fault!
15:51.08``Erikib and myra could probably do it semi-decently if your kernels scheduler was very aware of affinity
15:51.40``Erikthe trick is that migrations are minimized... if a processor is happily using 1 node, it'll try to keep it on that node...
15:51.56``Erikif two apps are sharing memory, it'll bias towards running both of those on that one node
15:52.50``Erik(and accessing another nodes memory, if you're using a decent interconnect (like NUMALink for the altix) may be an order of magnitude slower than local memory, but is several orders better than swap
15:52.52``Erik)
15:53.16MaloeranI see, so it does work by page faults
15:53.42``Erikif the underlying arch does, I'd imagine it'd have to
15:54.15MaloeranNUMA as implemented in an Opteron system is really fast, memory banks bound to other processors are just a bit slower if the hypertransport link is not saturated
15:54.19``Erik(also; a common use of supercomputers isn't to run one really really big app, but to run a bunch of sorta big apps)
15:54.27MaloeranThat's usually what I refer to by NUMA
15:54.59``Erikyou're talking about hypertransport and how it can facilitate numa, not numa
15:55.12``Erikhypertransport is just a fast interconnect...
15:55.40``Erikif the kernel is stupid about using it, it'll 'page fault' through to the other cpu's memory banks frequently... no?
15:56.00MaloeranNo, it doesn't page fault
15:56.04MaloeranIt's a hardware solution :)
15:56.19``Erikok, *shrug* then they have both in hw
15:56.26MaloeranThe hardware physically routes queries to the memory of other processor banks
15:56.38``Erikon an sgi altix, afaik, it's a fault and request... and surprisingly fast
15:56.50``Erikon mosix, it's a fault and request... and depends on the interconnect
15:57.15``Erikhum
15:57.35``Erikso it's an mmu hack that requires use of the hw 'task' vectors?
15:57.49``Erik<-- not versed in hypertransport, is old :)
15:58.33MaloeranThe pages are assigned to other memory banks, I guess it's managed as such by the MMU
15:59.10``Erikwell, you have to manage the memory location by task... if the hw does that, you have to tell the hw when you're in a certain task...
15:59.17``Erik(task as in intel speak for process)
15:59.20MaloeranIt's just one big memory bank really, it's just that processors are faster to access their local one
16:00.33``Erik(as in hypertransport, not hyperthreading)
16:01.30``Erikhm, works on packets that're either flagged "posted" (for uma and dma) or "nonposted" (for numa)...
16:08.25MaloeranPerhaps proper management of the memory banks, DMA?
16:09.11``Eriknot sure, lots of bit manipulation, probably to make the bank/process association to retain coherency
16:10.06``Eriklinux has a metric assload more than fbsd, mebbe that's why the single process run on a linux opteron outran the same run on a fbsd opteron
16:10.59``Erikooh, damnit, now I wanna do kernel hacking to improve the cpu and memory affinity on that quad opteron
16:11.28dtidrowheh
16:11.37MaloeranI can't believe a NUMA system which would page faults for every access, requesting the data before resuming the instruction, could perform comparably to software fetching the data in advance as one big chunk
16:11.39``Erikstupid raytracer crap
16:12.00``Erikwell, the "page fault" may not call a cpu interrupt, it may be completely hw abstracted and fast *shrug*
16:12.48``Erikbut the os still has to manage the mmu *shrug* it may just be that the interconnect keeps a duplicate copy of the kernels notion of what memory resides where
16:13.10MaloeranI see.
16:14.41``Erik(per ghz, opteron running 85k rays/sec, g5 at 45k, ia32 at 18k... damn)
16:15.57``Erik(well, one opteron was 85k, the other was 60k... r12k was 31k, usII was 30k, ia64 at 41k)
16:16.19Maloeranlibrt this is?
16:16.23``Erikja
16:16.49``Erikthe 64 intel amd64 (used to be called EMT or something?) came in at 25k
16:17.24``Erikoh, with the ia32, 18k for linux, 32k for fbsd...
16:17.58dtidrowin other words, librt is optimized for fbsd
16:18.06``Erikthese are all 'per ghz' on machines with radically differnet cpu speeds and no attention paid to bus speeds or anything, btw
16:18.22``Erikwell, on the opteron, linux came in at 85k where fbsd was 60k
16:18.58dtidrowguess linux has the better memory management inplementation on opteron
16:19.05``Erikmakes me think that it's not an artifact of librt being optimized one way or another, but the OS... amd64 is immature on amd64, but kickin' on ia32
16:19.27dtidrowfbsd, you mean?
16:19.35``ErikI think the memory mgmt is all an upfront hit with pools being used, ...
16:19.37``Eriker, yeah, sorry
16:19.52``Erikamd: linux>fbsd. ia32: fbsd>linux.
16:20.18dtidrowheh, another reason for me to get AMD  :-)
16:20.36dtidrowanyway gotta head in to work - later all...
16:20.41``Eriklater, dude
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18:51.46``Eriknuma is an abstract idea, not a specific implementation...
19:31.44MaloeranOh hrm. Erik, I briefly mentionned we debated cluster architectures in an email, and he asks, what's your "recommendation"? :)
19:32.02MaloeranI guess he means TCP/IP vs MPI vs NUMA-aware pthreads
19:32.21MaloeranIn the context, "he" being Mark
19:36.52brlcadnuma-aware pthreads is generally part of single-image systems, not clustering .. otherwise saying "red vs blue vs duckies"
19:37.52MaloeranAltix clusters, for example, have an unified address space though, which means that NUMA-aware threads could reasonably work
19:39.36brlcadthere are massive altix smp and clusters of massive altix smp
19:40.14brlcadthe clusters don't have a unified address space, altix is cool because it's smp and not a cluster in itself
19:40.51MaloeranAll right, that clarifies the definitions. So it's a 512 processors SMP NUMA system
19:41.07brlcadyes
19:41.51brlcadand that'll be quite a price tag at that size to say the least
19:42.02``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:42.26brlcadpretty much only find those systems at HPC assets (which ARL does happen to have, the MSRC)
19:42.34``Erikaltix is numa, not smp...
19:42.50brlcadaltix is numa and smp
19:43.14``Erikmeh, numa is a memory layout, not a cpu scheduling layout, so *shrug*
19:43.59``Erikbut duckies, ... duckies are awesome
19:44.06``Erik(ever watch 'ze frank'?)
19:44.12brlcaddaily ;)
19:44.29brlcadze frank
19:44.38brlcadze frank is pretty awesome
19:45.15``Erikit's on my daily list, too, along with sbemail and the comic page and smacksnot
19:46.01archivisthmm smacks not or smack snot
19:46.18``Eriksmack snot
19:46.25``Erikaka crack rock
19:46.40``Eriksometimes slashdot, by the unitiated or sufficiently confused
19:50.14brlcadMaloeran: maybe watch some of these for starters:  http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/ then click on "popular shows" on the left
19:50.54``Erikheh, then blow a solid week watching the entire archive *cough* O:-)
19:51.21archivistI wont be able to read slashdot without the thought smack snot going through my head now
19:51.42``Erik*bow*
19:52.03``Erikthat's a good thing, right? you'll be able to do something productive, instead?
19:52.28archivistwot hell no
19:54.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: punty "depends" target
19:59.52``Eriknothing :)
20:00.00``Erikthere'll be a bigarsed commit in a few
20:00.19brlcadhrm
20:00.22``Erikbut, as the regex.h issue remains, my testing of it is incomplete
20:01.09``ErikI don't think tcl's regex stuff can be easily removed, it looks like it's use in the symbol resolving functions, as well as in the file routines
20:03.38brlcadi didn't mean remove the regex code, just the files themselves -- or do you mean they're #including .c files or something?
20:04.03``Erik<-- finds himself going into dirs in the appropriate dep chain order and doing make by hand to get the lib or bin he wants, thinks it'd be keen if he could go where he wants and do "make depends all"
20:04.20brlcadahh
20:04.23brlcadyeah, that would be useful
20:04.31``Eriknot including .c files, but generic/regex.h is used several places in generic/*.c
20:04.34brlcadi do the cd dir dir dir blah foo too
20:05.14brlcadi think only folks that understand how automake works are generally inclined to do that, but hey that's cool
20:05.18``Erikit might be best to mv regex.h regex_tcl.h and sed 's/regex\.h/regex_tcl.h' *.[ch]
20:05.38brlcadmight also just get away with -DVOID=void
20:05.52``ErikI'd do it to what we have now, but I ASSUME you're close to committing a new tcl
20:05.57brlcadthe more I looked at it last night, the more it looked like it was empty
20:05.59``Erikthat won't be the only thing broken, just the first
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20:06.31``Erikunless generic/regex.h just happens to have all the meat of /usr/include/regex.h and it happens to use the same define values and stuff
20:07.21``Erikwell, commit it up, yo... even if it's busted, we could split the load and both go about fixing... *shrug*
20:11.36``Erikin a branch if ya want *shrug* I'll sync to a branch
20:13.46brlcadcommit what up?
20:13.59brlcad-DVOID=void?
20:14.48brlcadstill working on finishing this 8.5 testing/building, trying to get subconfigures to work reliably
20:17.07dtidrow_workhttp://tinyurl.com/3cx56e - good grief
20:17.39dtidrow_workthe excessively accesorised toilet
20:19.12archivistlacks a lectern for a heavy book
20:19.24brlcadhrm.. by that math
20:22.09brlcadit's saying the average person spends 11862 hours per day in the bathroom (presumably on the toilet) .. which is roughly 30 minutes a day
20:22.58``Erikper day?
20:23.31``Erikheh
20:24.02brlcadi know some people that .. er .. take forever, but then they have "issues" too afaik
20:24.16brlcadwell yeah, that depends what all is included
20:24.28brlcadthe article makes it sound like you spend all that time on the john
20:25.05dtidrow_workheh - women spend at least 1.5hrs a day in the bathroom, then
20:25.06archivistfor a good stiff sh.. the a good read is needed
20:26.45brlcadi never got that, i'm in and out every time -- there's no by the time I finish a couple sentances, it's over
20:27.16``Erikneed something to tear pages out of if there's no tp *shrug*
20:28.13dtidrow_workclearly ``Erik belongs to the church of vi
20:28.24``Erikyes, the vim sect
20:31.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (13 files in 13 dirs): beginnings of DEPS flags for "make depends" chaining.
20:46.34brlcadahh
20:48.28``Erik?
20:49.47brlcadinstead of (re)listing the dependencies.. they're already listed in a couple places
20:50.27brlcadyou could parse over the libadd/ldadd stuff, or peek at the _DEPENDENCIES vars or peek in the .deps dirs and build up that directory list automatically
20:51.08brlcadso you don't have to maintain a separate list that'll eventually be out of sync when someone adds a new lib and doesn't notice the DEPS var
20:51.29brlcadit'd always be perfectly in sync
20:51.39``Erikspoze I coulda tried that, and did sed-fu to strip it down *shrug* but if I did that, then people who're over-verbose in attaching libraries would cause a LOT of duplicate computation
20:52.16``Erik<-- already annoyed with the amount of replication of computation with the hand-minimized list
20:53.22brlcadreplication?
20:54.56``Erikyeah... if I do 'make depends' in, say, mged... rt->bn->bu->tcl, tk->tcl, so tcl gets two passes
20:54.58brlcadif you need to rebuild mged and be portably sure, it's got to walk the dependency hierarchy for each ldadd lib ..
20:55.28brlcadhmm.. sounds like you need to build up the list of what to do before actually doing it
20:55.38``ErikI was half tempted to give each dir an "am I built?" target and stopping if that's yes
20:56.00``Erikthat's one way, but to be portable across makes, ... :/
20:56.56brlcadsure across makes
20:56.56brlcadyou do the same traversal you have in depends now .. but make it do two walks .. just not runnning depends on the first walk
20:57.52``Erikmebbe in the future...
20:58.39brlcadit is, but the hooks they provide should make it work
20:58.47brlcadi fixed a handful of things, there still another problem?
20:58.59brlcadcould have disabled more, but I tried to only disable minimal
20:59.07``Erikhow'd you disable it?
20:59.31brlcadMakefile.am cppflags to turn stuff on/off
21:00.05brlcadright
21:00.15brlcadi commited a fix for that yesterday
21:00.18``Eriklibdm/dm_obj.c
21:00.25``ErikI updated today, it's still breakin' O.o
21:00.27brlcadat least I thought I did
21:00.43``Erik(also don't remember seeing a cia msg)
21:01.19brlcadhuh, that's odd
21:02.05brlcadhrm, maybe the commit errored/timed out and I didn't notice
21:03.58brlcadahh, yeah, something happened
21:03.59brlcadM pngconf.h
21:04.17brlcadprobably queried for a pass and I didn't notice or something
21:06.29``Erikthat's the included png... I'm trying to use the system png
21:07.14``Eriklike guard the setjmp in bu.h and make sure png.h is included before bu.h
21:07.27CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/pngconf.h: disable the linux setjmp.h double-inclusion protection (at least for now) on the assumption that we will get the same setjmp.h and this won't be a problem. add a note that this was modified by us for BRL-CAD.
21:07.38``Eriksince the png fucktards can't figure out how to guard headers right *cougH*
21:07.46brlcadpngconf.h is installed on the system?
21:08.03``Erikyes$ ls -l /usr/include/pngconf.h
21:08.03``Eriklrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 18 Aug 11 12:34 /usr/include/pngconf.h -> libpng12/pngconf.h
21:08.24``Erikrhel64 on an opteron
21:08.47``Erikshuffling headers and gaurding in bu.h sound about right? I can take care of it while you do tcl
21:09.05brlcadcould work it out so that png.h is just included before our stuff -- it should be actually
21:09.13``Erik'k, I'll go about that
21:09.17``Erikhurry up and finish tcl :D
21:09.32brlcadcommon.h -> system headers -> public interface headers -> private headers
21:09.37``Erikso i can unhack regionfix.c and proe-g.c on my thing
21:09.42brlcadpng.h is a system header
21:10.18brlcadanother fix would be to just set -DPNG_SETJMP_NOT_SUPPORTED
21:10.31brlcadand it skips it altogether
21:12.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: pull system headers up ahead of our headers
21:14.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: pull system headers up ahead of our headers
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23:37.14louipcmore
23:37.20louipcerk
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070208

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070208

00:17.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad.spec.in: clean up header, add footer, remove reference to GPL as the license
00:22.34MaloeranThere are platforms where longjmp() is not supported?
00:23.19MaloeranAssuming it's related to the PNG_SETJMP_NOT_SUPPORTED switch
00:44.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (Makefile.am cvs2cl.pl): remove unused ChangeLog processing perl script (rcs2log is used instead)
00:45.10CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (configure.ac Makefile.am configure.in): rename configure.in to configure.ac
00:50.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/legal/ (Makefile.am gfdl.txt gpl.txt): remove the GPL and GFDL licenses. they are no longer used. all GPL code was relicensed to LGPL, all documentation under the dual-licensing GPL/GFDL were relicensed under the BDL (BSD documentation license).
00:58.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: make .in and .ac files use the autoconf major mode instead of Makefile
02:08.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: remove the Makefile.defs since enigma has it's own configure and will otherwise mess with AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS
02:31.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: let .ac and .in files use the specified indent instead of forcing 8
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04:42.25dtidrowheh
05:13.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: recognize lexer and parser files
05:14.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: recognize lexer and parser files, keep mode and tab-width first in the variable list in case variables/values is ever customized
05:34.16brlcadand damn old autoreconf/automake -f for obliterating COPYING and INSTALL files, presumptiously putting in default GPL verbage
06:14.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: add recognition of PD for public domain works, remove the GPL and GFDL sections.
06:19.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: PD work else statement was swapped, fixed.
06:32.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/configure.ac: test application of PD headers, add a footer too along with detail that enigma comes from the Crypt Breaker's Workbench software
06:33.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/enigma.1: Joerg spelled CBW incorrectly -- the proper project name is the Crypt Breaker's Workbench (this mistake has been impressively spread around the world now).
06:36.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: sources
06:40.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/brlman/ (awf.in brlman.in): add local variables footer
06:43.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/configure.ac: add a header and footer
06:49.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (126 files in 18 dirs): give adrt some distinctiveness in the header
07:00.14CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (AUTHORS INSTALL ChangeLog NEWS COPYING): initial basic documentation files to appease gnu autotools
07:01.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/ (Makefile.am build.sh): add new basic doc files, remove the old build.sh script
07:03.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/.cvsignore: ignore autotools turds
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08:19.30sebastienbailardEvening all.
08:20.27sebastienbailardIs Sean in?
08:20.46sebastienbailardbrlcad: Is Sean in?
08:30.19brlcadhello
08:31.51sebastienbailardSean, is that you?  I'm that fellow with RepRap who pestered you some time abck
08:31.56sebastienbailardback, rather.
08:34.06sebastienbailardDo you remember our exchange of emails?
08:36.42sebastienbailardThe reason I came into this channel was to ask if it was possible to use brlcad as an engine in blender to give blender more cad features.
08:37.28brlcadhmm
08:37.33sebastienbailardIt's a stupid question I suppose, but it's one that's been rattling in my head as I do the dishes and so on.
08:37.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
08:37.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: change the way COPYING and INSTALL are protected from being clobbered by
08:37.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: automake's stupid behavior of overwriting our files with generic GNU content.
08:37.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: instead of saving a backup to a file in the aux dir, save the contents of the
08:37.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: file to memory (that is even preserved across internal restarts). restore as
08:37.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: needed if/when the content is clobbered.
08:37.53brlcadI get a lot of e-mails.. your name is familiar but not the exact messages, I'd have to pull them up
08:38.08brlcadit's certainly possible, anything is possible with code ;)
08:38.12sebastienbailardI'd just came in to yammer. I'm working on the 3D printer thing.
08:38.28brlcad*but*.. it would be rather complex
08:38.52sebastienbailardThis is true.  I'd have to bribe the interested devs with a 3D printer.
08:38.53brlcadif only because blender's current geometry interface is rather complex
08:39.14brlcadand the entire modeling methodology isn't geared towards cad/cam or solid modeling
08:39.26sebastienbailardI realize.
08:39.54brlcad<PROTECTED>
08:40.19brlcadthere's nothing in the gui that is going to prevent creation of degenerate geometry
08:40.32sebastienbailardThe reason I was wondering is that folk are working on porting a 2D cad program into the modeling program ArtOfIllusion.
08:41.08brlcadqcad?
08:41.29sebastienbailardArchimedes.  It's an architectural cad.
08:41.32brlcadah
08:42.09sebastienbailard<PROTECTED>
08:43.43sebastienbailardI'm not sure if the blender devs would be interested.
08:44.29sebastienbailardOr the BRLCAD devs for that matter.
08:44.54brlcadi'm interested in most developments that involve BRL-CAD ;)
08:45.19sebastienbailardWell, I'm going to pester the blender devs a bit.  I think we may want a parametric cad tool though.
08:45.42brlcadbut that said, there are limits -- e.g. I wouldn't be inclined to integrate with Blender -- they're just not geared for solid modeling in the least, it would cause so many problems
08:46.13sebastienbailardThat's fair.
08:46.19brlcadI mean, I wouldn't object to someone else trying -- I'd certainly support them and help with the brl-cad side of things
08:46.49sebastienbailardI didn't think it was a good idea, but I didn't know the answer to the question.
08:47.04brlcadthe goal, though, is akin to trying to use Maya for CAD purposes..
08:47.15brlcadit's just .. problematic on so many levels
08:47.46sebastienbailardThat's fair.
08:48.11sebastienbailardThe MIT fab lab folk are using blender in lieu of a real CAD program.
08:48.25brlcadit's frankly be easier to integrate with archimedes, even with them being a java code and there needing to be some network interface or jni layer ;)
08:48.51brlcador extract the blender gui library and use that to build a cad interace
08:48.55sebastienbailardThe only problem is that archimedes is 2D cad.
08:49.01brlcadyep
08:49.36sebastienbailardThere's a fellow who wrote a free 3D cad program in visual c++ for windows.  I'll talk to him.
08:50.17sebastienbailardWell, thank for the well reasoned answer.
08:50.49sebastienbailardAnd tell me if you ever want to borrow an extruder head to make a 3D printer.
08:51.13brlcadon that similar note, if yourself or others want to make those kinds of improvements to brl-cad directly .. the project is rather open to new developers ;)
08:51.36brlcadheh, will do :)
08:51.51sebastienbailardI was thinking of inviting you to take an informal look at our java driver code, actually.  :)
08:52.41brlcaddo you directly interface with a particular 3d printer?
08:53.03sebastienbailardYes.  The gpl self replicating one we're building at RepRap.org.
08:53.45sebastienbailardIt's not self-replicating _yet_.  That will be the 1.0 release.
08:54.17brlcad"it *will* [emphasis mine] be able to make copies of itself"
08:54.31sebastienbailardWe're aiming for 2008.
08:54.41sebastienbailardThis is how far we've gotten.
08:54.50sebastienbailardhttp://reprap.blogspot.com/
08:55.09brlcadheck for $400, I'd buy one ..
08:55.38sebastienbailardKeep an eye out for the announcement of the loaner machines.
08:55.59sebastienbailardWe won't be selling them for a while.  But we will be sending out loaner machines.
08:56.31sebastienbailardPeople who happen to have a populated PCB board, steppers, and a reel of filament get on the short list.
08:57.20brlcadcurious, how are you currently creating/managing geometry
08:57.46brlcadpresumably you have a geometry importer of some sort or a geometry format of your own
08:57.56sebastienbailardSTL slicing.  I think adrian is working on figuring out support material geometry right now.
08:58.10sebastienbailardI don't know what we're going to do for DXF importing.
08:58.34brlcadhm, "ew" :)
08:58.46sebastienbailardIt's a "standard".
08:59.14brlcad"the thing so great about standards is that there are so many to choose from"
08:59.43brlcadstl is just the lowest common denominator for explicit factized geometry, otherwise retains no topological information
08:59.49sebastienbailardPretty much.  I say that to myself everytime I want metric drill bits.
09:00.09sebastienbailardI'm somewhat familiar with stl's lack of virtues.
09:00.24sebastienbailardIt happens to be the standard data interchange format in RP.
09:00.50brlcadRP?
09:00.58sebastienbailardrapid prototyping.
09:01.02brlcadah
09:01.17brlcadi was stuck on "RR" :)
09:01.28sebastienbailardThey bitch about stl, but that's what they use.
09:02.15brlcadyeah, we've sent some of our models off to a RP shop nearby, stl was the easiest to extract for them
09:03.02brlcadseems that there are so many better formats though, especially given that it's being turned into effectively rasterized layers when given to the printer
09:04.19sebastienbailardHmm...
09:04.32sebastienbailardWhat's your cost / cubic inch?
09:06.43brlcadfor this particular shop, there as no cost to us because we have mutually aligned interests
09:07.06brlcadbut then our only interactions to date have just been mostly demos and testing
09:07.40brlcadi'm not familiar with what they charge otherwise
09:07.44brlcadat least I don't recall
09:08.27sebastienbailardAh well.  Their business model may change a bit.
09:10.13brlcadthey're not commercial, so not readily influenced by industry change .. they serve specific needs/users ;)
09:10.32sebastienbailardHmm..
09:11.17brlcadthat said, that's an industry that really could use change
09:11.30brlcadit is overly expensive atm
09:12.03sebastienbailardPretty much.  But the fab@home guys have shown how cheap you can do it.
09:12.17sebastienbailardThey have a working machine at USD$2.5k.
09:14.53brlcadis that you in the video giving a presentation?
09:14.58sebastienbailardNope.
09:15.11sebastienbailardVik Oliver probably.
09:15.24brlcadyeah, vik
09:16.12brlcadso do you know what exactly is fed to the RP machine for a given layer data-wise?
09:16.42sebastienbailardI'm not sure.  I still need to crawl through the driver code.
09:17.30brlcadthere would definitely be some great potential for direct collaboration there
09:17.45sebastienbailardDo you want to take a look at it then?
09:17.51brlcadbrl-cad's support for various geometry format is pretty extensive (including nearly full dxf support)
09:18.17sebastienbailardI had a sense of that.
09:18.57sebastienbailardDo you think we could just pull out some libraries?
09:19.41brlcadas well as a standardized ray-tracing engine for converting models to something like a raster model, or a volumetric model, or layer by layer via CSG, etc
09:20.44sebastienbailardI'll mention it to the 2-3 guys who know what they're talking about.
09:20.48brlcadthe core ray-tracing engine is readily extractable or usable as-is though it processes brl-cad's geometry format at that lower level
09:21.30brlcadthere's work under way to turn our several dozen converters into a coherent API/library --the code is fairly well-contained per geometry format
09:22.12sebastienbailardI did get the sense that BRL CAD was rigourously modularized.
09:22.22sebastienbailardDo you have 3ds support?
09:22.43brlcadcurrently, all of the converters are stand-alone commands that can be piped together and used with other utilities
09:23.02brlcadno, 3ds support isn't there
09:23.24sebastienbailardAh.  I see.
09:23.32brlcadseveral of the 3d geometry formats that aren't relevant to solid modeling specifically haven't been looked into
09:24.15sebastienbailardThat's reasonable.
09:25.37sebastienbailardAh well, I need to sign off, if I'm to get enough sleep.
09:26.08sebastienbailardThank you for the explanation.
09:28.19brlcada list of the converters
09:28.20sebastienbailardprogrammable?
09:28.23brlcadheh
09:28.26brlcadnot that kind
09:28.38brlcada list of the converters if you're interested, uploading now
09:30.33sebastienbailardAh.  I found a table.
09:30.52brlcadbasic overview: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg
09:31.04brlcadconverters: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg
09:31.38sebastienbailardI'm looking at it.
09:32.35sebastienbailardMy colleague asserts that dxf is a 2d data format.  Is that correct?
09:33.13brlcaddxf has 2d and 3d entities
09:33.24sebastienbailardThat's what I thought.
09:33.37brlcadwe initially only supported 3d dxf files
09:34.11sebastienbailardI spent a couple hours getting this one toolpath program to work, turns out it does 2D DXF.
09:34.17brlcadwhich are actually rather common if you're in the solid modeling and/or cad industry and are actually looking at a model of, say, some part
09:34.37brlcade.g. if you made a sphere in blender, and exported dxf, it'll be a 3d dxf entity
09:34.43sebastienbailardSo 3D dxf files are very common, right?
09:34.52brlcaddepends on the industry
09:35.04sebastienbailardMy colleague must not work in that industry.
09:35.16brlcadin the domains that tend to care less about 3d, it's a lot less common
09:35.35brlcadlike if it is a bunch of drawings of a building.. drawings are mostly useless ;)
09:35.48sebastienbailardWell. we're not printing buildings.
09:35.52sebastienbailardThat's another guy.
09:36.18sebastienbailardUCLA or USC or something.
09:36.30brlcadwe actually import 2D dxf into brl-cad directly, where we have support for 2D sketch entities .. which can of course be extruded into a 3d solid object
09:37.08sebastienbailardhmm...
09:37.33sebastienbailardHey, you don't know of any foo-> gcode programs out there do you?
09:37.42brlcadactually...
09:39.09brlcadyeah, I do .. one of brl-cad's former devs has been quite busy working on some new CAM software that generates gcode
09:39.09sebastienbailardDoes it use opencascade?
09:39.18brlcadno, it's entirely homegrown from scratch
09:39.20sebastienbailardWhat would it be?
09:39.27brlcadTwingy: wake up
09:39.43sebastienbailardI've spent rather a while looking for that kind of tool.
09:40.38sebastienbailardDo you have a link in the meanwhile?
09:42.34brlcad~gcam is a the open source GNU Computer-Aided Machingin project, developed by Justin Shumaker, for supporting basic CNC mills by directly exporting g-code to your favorite CNC driver application.  See http://gcam.js.cx/ for details.
09:42.36ibotokay, brlcad
09:42.59sebastienbailarddoesn't import yet.
09:43.07sebastienbailardUnless it's changed since last night.
09:43.33sebastienbailardI'll check.
09:43.35brlcadyeah, he's not too big on collaboration or using other people's stuff .. :)
09:43.49sebastienbailardSome folk are like that.
09:43.58brlcadyeah
09:44.21sebastienbailardThere's another open source printer project out there, fab@home.
09:44.57brlcadshame too, because he really can churn out good stuff useful to others and fast when he puts his mind to it -- several of his projects would have taken off with collaboration
09:45.21brlcadbut then .. he gets them to where he wanted them for his purpose, then gets bored and moves on to something else ..
09:45.38sebastienbailardWell, if he ever gets stl and dxf importing going, he'll be popular.
09:45.52sebastienbailardAtleast with the diy cnc crowd.
09:48.09brlcadcourse he also picked a project name that conflicts with others that have existed longer, but in all fairness I think they're mostly dead projects (like g[tk web]cam[era])
09:48.44sebastienbailardI know of 2, maybe three other free cam progams out there actively being developed.
09:50.19brlcadin the big scheme of things, brl-cad's actually probably still closest to being a useful cam system just due to all of the attention to the details required for solid modeling and data management that others lack -- just without a user interface exposing that functionality
09:51.01sebastienbailardI think toolpath generation can get a little complicated...
09:52.48brlcadyeah, it can -- which is also another reason it's so important to actually work with solid geometry that provides geometric assurances
09:53.23sebastienbailardI think there would be a lot of interest in that application, if you were to create it.
09:54.07brlcadelse you end up really just wasting so much time on issues that are technically np-complete and rather impractically unsolvable for the generic case, where water-tight/crack-free solids matter instead of polygon soup
09:54.59sebastienbailardI think I follow.
09:55.02brlcadthere would be, but it's outside of our domain given our focus is heavily on 3D solid modeling for CAD analysis purposes, not concept, design, or machining purposes
09:55.38brlcadeach one of those purposes is an entire CAD industry with major players ;)
09:55.52sebastienbailardAs a hobby fabricator, it's a gap/  Not necessarily one brlcad has to fill, but a gap.
09:56.17brlcadit's the lower right corner of http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
09:58.33sebastienbailardHmm...
09:58.39brlcadhm, though how RP exactly falls into that particular diagram is misleading (and unlisted) .. don't think it'd be contiguous, or at least not to appropriate scale
09:59.02sebastienbailardWe're doing the cottage industry thing.
09:59.48brlcadthe "purposes" I was referring to are the dashed line boxes
10:00.08sebastienbailardRight.  Sorry.
10:02.34sebastienbailardWell, I need to sleep.  Drop me a line if you start crawling through our code or something.
10:02.44brlcadsounds good
10:02.49brlcadis it all java, or a mix?
10:03.04sebastienbailardJava, with some c for the PICs.
10:03.18brlcadk, thought I heard mention of C code in the presentation
10:03.55sebastienbailardWe're not actively courting developers, but if your start submitting patches...
10:04.21brlcadI appreciate the thought, and likewise
10:04.39sebastienbailardMaybe after the 1.0 release.
10:04.46sebastienbailardTake care.
10:04.56brlcada pleasure
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13:33.53Twingywtf? wake up at 4:30 AM? weirdo
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19:33.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/Formats.csv: importer/exporter table, based on the conversion slide brlcad@ prepared.
20:05.59brlcadkeen
20:06.42dtidrowheh
20:20.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
20:20.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: If told not to build OpenNURBS and cannot find one installed, do not fail.
20:20.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: "Chomp" the surrounding whitespace on the OPENNURBS variable so "x$OPENNURBS"
20:20.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: will resolve to "x" instead of "x ".
20:22.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Only include src/other/opennurbs in the dependancy list if actually building OpenNURBs.
20:38.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/Makefile.am: need libz's cppflags
20:45.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: include Formats.csv in the dist
21:05.26``Erikhttp://www.smbc-comics.com/
21:07.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: fi typo
21:17.48``Erikawhoops
21:18.55``Erik(for some reason, my mac is making me hold the escape key for like half a second before accepting it, it's totally mucking up my vim usage)
21:19.51brlcadActivity Monitor show anything?
21:20.39``Eriknope
21:20.45``Erikand it only seems to be in X
21:23.22``Eriklo and behold, it does
21:23.48``Erik*sigh* it's a mac, it's not supposed to do shit like that, 'restart' and 'reboot' are supposed to be alien concepts :(
21:24.42dtidrowheh
21:26.32brlcad``Erik: they allow it on X11 so the linux/unix weenies feel more comfortable
21:28.28dtidrowyou mean the Windows weenies
21:29.00``Erikheh, I'm more used to sun and bsd o.O reboots are only for certain kinds of kernel upgrades, hw failure on shitty hw, or catastrophic hw failure (like 'nuke' or 'massive meteor') on real machines
21:29.11dtidrowyeah
21:29.53dtidrowhaven't rebooted this box in two months, and that was due to a power outage that drained the UPS
21:29.57``Erik(opposed to linux where ya reboot every other week because 2.6.18a4 was released, or windows where you reboot because you moved your mouse...)
21:30.02dtidrow10os[Linux 2.6.11-6mdksmp i686] 10cpu[2 x AMD Athlon(tm) Processor @ 1.67GHz] 10mem[Physical : 786MB/2026MB Free] 10disk[Total : 44.58GB/494.87GB Free] 10video[GeForce 6800 Ultra] 10sound[0: EMU10K1 - Sound Blaster Live!]
21:30.31dtidrowheh - only if you like chasing the latest upgrades
21:30.48dtidrowI haven't seen a real need to upgrade in a while
21:31.34``Erik<PROTECTED>
21:31.42dtidrowthough I've been thinking about perhaps trying out another distro instead of Mandrake/Mandriva here
21:31.52``ErikI wish I had real uptime :(
21:32.14``ErikI had a p75 with just over 400 days... and last job, a few suns with 1400 something days
21:33.07dtidrowp75 for a firewall?
21:33.26``Erikno, web/mail server
21:33.58dtidrowwell, as long as you don't put a lot of load on it, I guess
21:34.07``Erikit takes load
21:34.23dtidrowthrottled by b/w, then?
21:34.27``Erik*shrug* usually it stays below 1 unless a lot of people hit the wiki (stupid bots)
21:34.29``Erikno, fat pipe
21:34.55``Eriklean pages, almost no graphics at all, and all the html (outside of the wiki) was hand written, not the 8k of comment and div tag shit you see on lame sites
21:35.03dtidrowwhat's 'fat' these days, anyway?
21:35.13``ErikI think it's on a t3
21:35.14dtidrowah, that helps  :-)
21:35.36dtidrowT3 is 45Mbps?
21:35.39``Erikthe pipe outruns the 10baseT card in it *shrug*
21:35.42``Erikyeah
21:35.50dtidrowah
21:36.01dtidrowwas thinking it was a home-based system
21:36.07``Erik5.6 megs/sec, and it's got a shoddy isa 10baseT
21:36.51``Erikmy 850mhz home box lost the power supply a couple weekends ago, so my 'experiment' box is doing that duty :(
21:36.55dtidrowcouldn't you drop a nice 3com 100bT PCI card into it?
21:37.08``Erikin what, the p75?
21:37.10dtidrowyeah
21:37.13``Erikwhy?
21:37.22dtidrowto better match the T3
21:37.37dtidrowor does it have the T3 card in it?
21:37.50``Erikit gets daily backups, when the fans seize up and the machine cooks, it'll get chucked in the garbage and I'll find another place to put the name and page
21:38.08dtidrowheh
21:38.37dtidrowdoes a p75 even ned fans?  ;-)
21:38.39dtidrowneed
21:38.54``Erikthe machine's name is 'phoenix', it supplanted 'lazarus'... both were dead machines that were donated to a linux users club, made to work, put in a friendly isps' corner, and that was that...
21:39.29``Erikdepends on how cold the room is and how big the heat sink is :D
21:39.45dtidrowyeah, I've got a bunch of old hardware collected from various parking lot 'swap meets' at NOVALUG meetings  :-)
21:40.12dtidrowif the fans die, put it outside (at least until spring)  ;-)
21:40.27dtidrowshould keep it nice and cool....
21:40.29``Erik<-- was heavily involved in the southern missouri linux users club, even after seing the light and going the way of bsd :)
21:40.34``Erikseeing
21:40.47dtidrowbsd is fringe
21:40.59``Erikfbsd rocks my socks off
21:41.09``Erikand is a lot less fringe than ya'd think... it's just not... well... marketted..
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23:15.19louipcpity. I was considering using fbsd but I'd like to keep my socks
23:30.09``Erikheh
23:35.41brlcadmm.. food
23:39.21louipcbbq ribs
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070209

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070209

00:12.53*** part/#brlcad bobbens (n=bobbens@84.16.237.134)
00:27.27IriX64dinner had me for lunch ;)
00:28.28IriX64mmm +e = eavesdrop mode ? :)
00:30.20IriX64question... when you enable-almost-everything does with-x still need to be specified (goof try it and see but im lazy)
00:31.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: gah, search the configure.ac file instead of just sitting there idle
00:33.30``Erikif X is in a 'normal' place, it should just be included... if it's in a weird place, it needs to be specified
00:33.54``Erik<-- has a few machines with /usr/Xorg to intentionally break stuff that assumes /usr/X11R6 /usr/X11 /usr/X
00:34.07IriX64so even with-x isn't needed?
00:34.23IriX64got it thanks.
00:39.38IriX64doh X is already up.
00:39.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: missing var init when printing summary of invalid macros in use
00:41.13IriX64just out of curiosity, how many ppl have managed to get brlcad to compile on a cygwin installation?
00:43.07IriX64I sent ValarQ some screen shots of my attempts. :)
00:44.14``Eriknot a clue, there are msvc 6 and 7 things
00:44.39IriX64man msvc does not apply here.
00:45.01IriX64visual c on cygwin? :)
00:45.28dtidrowcygwin ought to be using the makefiless, I would imagine
00:45.49IriX64started from autogen compiling now.
00:46.38IriX64all the nurb stuff going by.
00:47.48IriX64mc
00:49.12IriX64if winsock.h is defined it bombs till i comment out that define, multiple defintions errors
01:09.22brlcadIriX64: i've compiled (fully) and run under cygwin several times
01:09.56brlcadsometimes requires a few patches, sometimes it's been clean .. depends on the state of things
01:11.51brlcadcouldn't get mged tk interface to come up due to some tk run-time problems (wrong compilation flags), but it compiles and classic runs fine
01:38.03IriX6424 minutes 46 seconds compile time
01:38.55IriX64just about installed the channel :)
01:39.59IriX64usually compiles clean here (cept for that winsock thing) and runs fine.
01:40.44IriX64importF4gSection.c tho has some functions that are defined already in fast4g
01:43.34MaloeranHey IriX64, we haven't seen you around for a while
01:44.37MaloeranI never realized Mark was rewording my progress reports, "too technical" apparently
01:50.31``Erik'progress reports' are for nontechnical people to say "oh, cool, ti's all good" or "ohs noes, do we need to find him some help?"
01:56.56IriX64Maloeran: been busy..
01:58.25Maloeran*nods* I thought it was mostly read by you, Lee, Mark
01:58.36IriX64well, it's up now what do I do with it :)
02:05.40louipchmm none of the three sites listed for URToolkit sources work
04:47.51MaloeranAh, no big deal Erik
04:47.57MaloeranMark : "I needed to reword progress report since management didn't understand most of what was in it :).  Please review my update (attached) [...]"
07:09.32brlcadmm
08:00.03CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/pkgIndex.tcl: force specification of the Archer package, even though there's a processing error related to env(ARCHER_HOME) that still has to be fixed. this issue was noticed and fixed by Yugami - marcbritten, sf patch #1612642.
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08:20.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS:
08:20.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: noticed that src/tclscripts/bgerror.tcl is documented to have been written by
08:20.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: Rick Garriques, Jr. so credit him accordingly. although initially written in
08:20.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 2000, the file was added (by bob) as part of the windows port effort.
08:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl:
08:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: env(ARCHER_HOME) needs to get set to something even if the set in the catch
08:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: statement fails in order for a pkgIndex.tcl to have the appropriate package
08:22.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: ifneeded generated. it was failing because argv0 is not necessarily set.
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08:54.32clock__brlcad: when I do some editing and then type "reset", it resets only the active pane
08:54.42clock__When I select reset from the menu it resets all of them
08:54.44clock__Is this a bug?
08:55.15brlcadnot really
08:55.23brlcadit is inconsistent, but expected
08:55.42brlcadcommands are (almost entirely?) written to only apply to the current pane
08:55.52brlcadmenu options are a mix
08:55.59brlcaddepending on the checkbox
08:57.05brlcadthe commands should/could be modified to respect the "apply to all panes" checkbox, but that would be a new improvement
09:20.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: f. hartley
10:48.50brlcadmm.. breakfast
11:22.59clock__hartley is it the guy who invented the hartley oscillator?
11:26.21brlcadnah, he was a summer student that work on the initial code conversion from k&r syntax to ansi
11:28.44archivisthartley oscillator goes way to valve(tube) days
11:29.13archivistway back
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13:20.28archivistIt was invented by Ralph Hartley, who filed for a patent on June 1, 1915 and was awarded patent number 1,356,763 on October 26, 1920.
13:20.41archivistway way way back
13:32.14clock__Who got the patent #1, when and for what? For the wheel? For the fire?
13:32.26clock__For sex?
13:32.51clock__Method and apparatus for automated procreation in mammal species "Homo Sapiens" in extralaboratory conditions
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22:00.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: stash a cvs id for version reporting
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22:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
22:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: make autogen.sh now report a version number based on the last commit date as
22:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: well as an auto-extracted copyright range. turn the version error reporting
22:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: into a function so it can be updated in one place and fix/remove the trailing
22:41.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: _SH that didn't belong. add comments at the beginning of each of the manual
22:41.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: steps. when stashing COPYING and INSTALL in memory, make sure they actually fit
22:41.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: -- irix seems to have issues.
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23:46.19SWAThow can I open an .igs file with brlcad? (and for that matter, how can I turn/view it, and afterwards print it?)
23:48.06SWATand is there a way to convert an .igs file to .dwg or .dxf so it can be opened in other applications? (in combination with this, is it possible that a commercial tool would use it's own (incompatible) version of IGES which can't be read by brlcad?)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070210

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070210

00:15.20``Erikif .igs is IGES, you have to use iges-g to convert the IGES file to a BRL-CAD .g database file
00:16.30``Erikand if you do iges-g to amke a .g file, then you can do g-dxf to make a .dxf file
02:56.12brlcadSWAT: in addition to what ``Erik said, yes it is possible to have a elements in an IGES file that are either custom extensions by that commercial tool, or perhaps 2D elements that brl-cad wouldn't otherwise care about (since we strongly focus on solid modeling)
02:57.23brlcadonce you have a brl-cad .g file, you can open that with mged to view a wireframe and ray-trace images of any viewpoint, saving the images to files and using your favorite image viewer software to them print
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10:49.43SWAThmmm, still something goes wrong. The .dxf files are empty and the .g files probably also contain errors. Could you take a look at it?    http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5029/
11:25.28SWATwill brlcad ever get an interface like qcad or autocad?
11:36.23clock_no
12:16.06SWATany idea on what goes wrong when I convert the .igs file to .g and .dxf?
13:53.07``Erikdid you read the output of iges-g ?
13:53.45``Erikit says that there was no solid geometry found, just 2d drawings... and it says that nothing was converted and suggests a way to get your 2d drawings out of the iges file...
13:54.46``Erikdown
13:55.20``Erikok, g-dxf can't do globbing, and you didn't escape it, you gave it a list of files in the directory as names
13:55.30``Eriksorry, all that whitespace confuzzled me :D
13:55.49``Erikdo something like "mged -c testfile.g tops" to get a list of toplevel objects
13:56.06``Erikthen do g-dxf -o testfile.dxf testfile.g <toplevel objects>
14:01.08``Erikhttp://techdigest.tv/pcmaclinux.jpg
14:03.26brlcadfrom the looks of the first output, there are no 3D solids and no 2D drawings in that .iges file -- you might try the other suggested option of -3 for 3D drawings
14:04.15brlcadand specifying * for g-dxf is rather wrong, you have to know/specify the object name(s)
14:05.24SWATthanks for the info, I'm going to try them. ``Erik, did you get that picture from the planet? :)
14:13.41SWATI guess it starts out by creating a 'good' .g file (I guess I b0rked this up from the start). The -3 option gives me "No drawing entities and No view entities". If I try the '-t' flag 0 surfaces are converted.
14:14.12SWATI'm going to try and use another .igs file, if you have any thoughts, just say so, I'm very open to suggestions
14:19.31SWAT"Unrecognized IGES version", could this be the source of the errors?
14:23.25brlcadSWAT: potentially, but the fact that it lists out the entity types found more indicates that there is "stuff" in there that it finds, just nothing useful to a 3D solid modeler
14:23.40brlcadideally, it wants 3D solids
14:24.06brlcadwhat is generating the iges file?
14:24.14SWATon another file (when "-t" is used) I get lots of output, among with are: "WARNING: UV point outside of domain of surface!!!" and "Convtrimsurfs: Cannot find a point in fu"
14:24.54brlcadthat's a good sign, sounds like there are trimmed nurbs surfaces
14:24.55SWATbrlcad, I'm going to be honest, I don't really know. I 'guess' it's software like SolidWorks or something
14:26.35brlcadanother issue could be version compatibility -- brl-cad's support is pretty comprehensive, but only up to version 4.5 or 5 (forget exactly)
14:27.08brlcadif something is outputting the handful of entity extensions added since, there might be issue, though that generally hasn't been an issue
14:28.18SWATwell, my .g file seems to be 104 bytes big, which means it didn't work ;)
14:28.26brlcadyep
14:29.00SWATI wish I could e-mail you the files, but I can't. Do you have any advice? (except buying/getting/installing Windows and commercial software XXX)
14:30.02brlcadaside from sharing the iges file (which would be the most expedient) .. hmm
14:30.23brlcadI don't think blender has an iges importer iirc do they
14:30.39brlcadotherwise you could try them as an intermediate too
14:31.17brlcaddid iges-g produce a 104 byte file after each of the various options?
14:32.12SWATyes
14:32.48brlcadi suggest trying all the iges-g conversion option combinations just to see, -n -d -t
14:32.48SWATI can go ask if they have 'dummy' iges files, but most of it is highly confidential.
14:33.24SWATI tried all of them, and the only one that gives me any output that shows me that there is progress, is the "-t" flag
14:33.38SWATI just love the commercial/closed-source world.... :-/
14:33.42brlcadif this is from a commercial CAD sytem, there's going to be an option on the export to generate an IGES file that we can read almost for sure
14:34.07brlcadiges export panels are usually riddled with checkboxes ;)
14:34.52SWATand n00bs who ignore them (just like the great AutoCAD formats)
14:35.13brlcadneed to check the box(es) that say export solids/brep/bspline surfaces .. if there are only drawings and/or 2D entities, you're not going to get far with brl-cad
14:36.36SWATbrlcad, thanks for the help/advice. What else could I do? (if it contains drawings and/or 2d entities, just for the sake of argument)
14:36.48brlcadanother possibility would be to simply export to a different file format, iges is great when it works but a royal pain when it doesn't .. something more simplified like stl or dxf or ply might be easier
14:37.28brlcadif it contains only 2D entities, you're going to need a drafting CAD package .. probably best to export to dxf and import that into qcad or somesuch
14:37.37SWATiges has become the new standard for some companies and I guess they are unwilling to export also to .dxf or whatever (because it's more work, the bastards)
14:37.49brlcadiges is the "old standard" :)
14:37.53brlcadstep is the new standard
14:38.37SWATah, OK. I guess it's .stp? And how does brl-cad to with STEP files? (would I get the same issues as I get now with IGES?)
14:38.49brlcadnobody on the open source side does step yet, though we're probably closest to having one implemented later this year
14:39.15brlcadSTEP is even more complicated that IGES was, but more comprehensive too and more reliable
14:39.45brlcadeither way, though, it's not going to help you today unless you have access to a commercial cad system
14:40.35SWAThmmm, crap
14:41.08SWATseeing that you're channel admin etc., I guess you're the lead developer of this project?
14:41.39brlcadyeah
14:42.12SWATsince I have some customers who have this issue, how could we solve it?
14:42.50SWATI mean, in what direction should we 'stear' the companies?
14:42.55SWATuse .dxf by default?
14:43.06brlcadyour best bet is to probably try different iges export options from whomever is providing them to you -- going for 4.5 IGES for example and specifying creation of solids or drawings at least by default
14:43.39brlcadi wouldn't suggest dxf by default
14:44.07brlcadstep is really the way to go for full compatibility and reduction of introduction of modeling error or other information loss
14:44.31brlcadit's pretty much a fully-preserving format, whereas all of the others (including iges) aren't necessarily
14:45.15SWATso STEP *is* already the way to go (it's finished and the format is open?)?
14:45.36brlcadit's finished, it's an ISO standard
14:45.53SWAT:-)
14:46.19brlcadit's also a very complicated and expensive ISO standard and just as unpublishable as most ISO standards
14:46.39SWATand do you know if any of the commercial packages are 'mean' and have their own STEP implementation? (c.q. their own little format, which quirks)
14:46.52brlcadbut mostly irrelevant to "us" as we've already paid for the relevant portions of the STEP standard (few thousand $$)
14:47.11brlcadi've yet to see that
14:48.06brlcadthe step specification actually includes validation and correctness rules too, it would be rather "difficult" to say the least
14:49.00brlcadmore likely is that it might contain some geometry that a given system doesn't understand/support -- the format itself is sort of the union of all CAD system formats
14:49.25SWAThmmm, it almost seems to good to be true
14:49.30brlcadso whether your system cares that there are "dashed 2D line curves" or not still depends on the converter
14:50.05brlcadoh, it's not too good to be true -- perhaps I'm not conveying just exactly how "complicated and expensive" it is ;)
14:50.13SWATso now we have to wait for all the commercial and non-commercial packages to support STEP and then 'force' everyone to use STEP?
14:50.41brlcadiges is probably 10 times to complexity of dxf which is probably 10 times the complexity of a simple polygonal format that opengl might want
14:50.50brlcadstep is about 10 times more complex than iges
14:51.24brlcadmost of the commercial systems already support step -- adoption started in early 2000's
14:51.49SWATdamn, sounds pretty complex (and complex mostly isn't good). I'm all 'for' open-standards and open-source (OpenDocument Format is a great standard)
14:51.55brlcadopen source has had zero penetration simply because of the expense of the standard and nicheness of the market
14:52.36SWATqcad mostly only supports .dxf (afaik)
14:52.39brlcadthat and the fact that there are only a couple open source CAD systems, and we're by far the most developed in most respects
14:53.05brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg mentions step briefly
14:54.27SWATI'm pretty impressed by brl-cad. At first I found it hard to figure out (the .deb didn't work here), but now I see it has lots of small programs that are pretty strong on their own. Only the GUI is horrible (mged) if you compare it to qcad etc.. But that's my vision
14:54.57brlcadyep, that is a pretty reasonable summary
14:55.24brlcadmged's failings are well known too -- a new/better interface is one of the top priorities to "fix"
14:55.34``Erikthe pic was from another channel... on another network... :)
14:55.36SWATow great :)
14:55.57*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:56.01SWATbrlcad, please take a look at autocad/qcad for a gui (and just start with those and make a better one)
14:56.16brlcadmost of the underlying features and power of the geometric modeling engine are decades beyond (effort-wise) what can be found anywhere else .. just the modeling interface is currently .. painful.
14:56.30SWATI mean, Windows had a pretty good gui too, but the menu was horrible (no HCI at all)
14:56.54brlcadautocad/qcad are drafters .. which actually is only partially relevant to solid modeling
14:57.01clock_qcad interface is sometimes horrible as well.
14:57.15clock_Especially v.1 was
14:57.25clock_like changing the zoom was a diploma thesis for half an hour
14:57.43SWATyet the 'drafters' are often used (very often, as far as I know)
14:57.57clock_brlcad: don't worry, qcad is crap too :)
14:57.57brlcadautocad, pro-engineer, unigraphics, solidworks.. all being taken into consideration and fairly well known at least by myself and a few others as to their own strengths and weaknesses
14:58.22SWATbrlcad, before I forget it, I mean, I gave some harsh criticism... Great work everyone! It's appreciated :)
14:59.01brlcadSWAT: it's alright -- that's part of what's great about open source, being able to critique, recognize the dificiencies, look at the code, and fix/improve things :)
14:59.09clock_brlcad: qcad 1.x had some great features like when you save the file, it forgets all line thicknesses in the layers
14:59.20clock_So if you want to add a contour line, you get a zero thickness
14:59.41clock_In practice when you opened a file you had to manually reset all the thicknesses you planned to work with - great afterburner for productivity
15:00.31``Erikyay, power supply surgery was successful
15:01.27brlcadSWAT: the main concern is that autocad provides an interface that is more geared towards concept and design purposes .. which yes, are heavily 2D drafting-centric for some shops
15:01.41SWATbrlcad, yes, that's the great thing about it. I'm probably going to work on a pretty big project soon, but I'll just have to see. My time is very much limited and I just wanted to inquire here and give some feedback (hopefully good and constructive)
15:02.20brlcadthe problem is that the domain of "CAD" as a generic industry is utterly massive and one must focus resources else you end up with a variety of useless metiocrity
15:02.39SWATcorrect
15:02.41brlcadSWAT: have you seen our industry diagram
15:04.13SWATbrlcad, not yet... I just have very basic cad experience (very very basic, about 120 minutes)
15:05.27brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
15:06.10brlcadfrom a system perspective, AutoCAD falls pretty squarely on the CADD domain
15:06.47brlcadsomething like ArchiCAD is of course CAAD, a CAM system like GibbsCAM is an MCAD system
15:07.26clock_CAC
15:07.31clock_Computer Aided Contraptions
15:07.32brlcadRhino3D is sort of a CAID system
15:07.35SWATokay, this is too niche-specific for me. But I guess I know what you mean
15:08.16brlcadsolidworks is a big system that falls more in line with the centralized "CAD" domain as is unigraphics
15:09.45brlcadthe dashed lines indicate the purpose that those systems/markets generally tend to focus on -- e.g. drafting systems are heavily used for concept and design, but rarely for analysis and manufacturing
15:10.06SWATtrue
15:10.44SWATbtw, are you funded by the US government (I saw the US eagle on the project website)?
15:11.12clock_SWAT: they are CAM, Computer Aided Millitary
15:12.44``Erikciad... computer illiterates aiding military...
15:13.08clock_CIA - Computer Illiterate Analysis?
15:13.21``Erikcompletely idiotic asshoel?
15:13.23``Erik*cough*
15:13.32``Eriksorry, I'll go bac to my cage now O:-)
15:13.34``Erikback
15:13.44clock_``Erik: Remember OpenBSD lost funding because criticizing the Iraq qar
15:13.46clock_war
15:14.02clock_how long do you think BRL-CAD will have funding when you called CIA Completely Idiotic Assholes?
15:14.20``Erikprobably about as long as it'd have without me shooting my mouth off...
15:14.51SWATclock_, harhar, very funny
15:14.54clock_``Erik: now repeat: "I love Uncle Sam and his American Dream"
15:15.22clock_``Erik: give me 20 and clean all toilets with your toothbrush :)
15:16.08brlcadSWAT: yes, BRL-CAD comes from the U.S. Army Research Laboratory, developed there for 20+ years before being turned into open source
15:16.28clock_``Erik: long hair is hippie and hippies are enemy of the US National Interests
15:16.51brlcadit continues to be funded and developed to this day, though the open source side of things has breathed some new life into developments that ARL wouldn't have supported
15:17.35clock_SWAT: they planted some backdoors and trojans into the code and opened it so hippies now start using it as it's free, design some weapons, and the trojans copy themselves into the weapons and then DoD will be able to log in remotely and turn the weapons into cute tamagotchis
15:20.22clock_brlcad: well BRL-CAD it's a bit insignificant step in light of the fact that Russians open sourced their atomic weapons and are now giving them out to any bypasser :)
15:22.31brlcadalways going for the political angle, I see
15:25.17clock_brlcad: is it possible that BRL-CAD generates data for CNC tooling?
15:26.04clock_brlcad: for me BRL-CAD is not interesting as a millitary tool, but a tool to bypass the go-to-work-make-money-go-to-shop-buy-a-consumer-product loop
15:28.27``Erikclock: provided you write the code to output the appropriate format, sure... :)
15:28.39``Eriklike a g-gcode converter, hhe
15:28.59clock_Hmm write code, funny
15:29.10``Erik(ahhh, shower fresh, w00t)
15:29.13brlcadthere is no g-gcode
15:29.27``Erikyet
15:29.40``Erikclock is gonna write us a g-gcode.c :D
15:29.44SWATclock_, keyword: MS Windows XP and Vista. Go!
15:33.32brlcadheh
15:35.06SWATthe NSA helped with the development of XP/Vista. I expected a reply with 'backdoors', 'trojans' etc. etc. etc.
15:35.38brlcadhe's usually like a wind-up toy once someone gets him started
15:35.41brlcadmust be busy ;)
15:37.46brlcadfor what it's worth, "BRL-CAD is not interesting as a military tool" for me either, or most of the people that have ever worked on the project for that matter .. it's used for many many purposes and is just a graphics CAD system when it comes down to it
15:38.28brlcad``Erik: weren't those mostly all wigs? :)
15:38.44``Erikheh, for the bald people, sure :D
15:39.15brlcadmm. no more "big wigs" party, that'd be pretty funny today
15:40.11brlcad80
15:40.19brlcad80's mohawk
15:41.02``Erikit's hav eto be a fauxhawk, I'm not shaving the sides of my head... I'm not that lame :D
15:41.03brlcada bet particular image-conscious bosses would love seeing you with a two foot blue spike
15:41.07``Erikheh
15:41.30``Erikwith enough jelly, I could make my real hair a hella crazy fauxhawk
15:41.46``Erikbeen a while since I've dyed my hair blue... *scratches chin*
15:42.16``Erikwe should send her to defcon some year... heheehehhe
15:42.34brlcadhmm.. i haven't colored mine approaching two years *gasp*
15:43.21``Erikheh, yeah, uh, I don't think she'd consider that anywhere close to the same scale as, say, blue or green or purple... :D
15:44.02brlcadi think you should spike it blue, send pjt a picture and ask if you can be a pointy-haired boss
15:44.09brlcad(too)
15:44.14``Erikheh
15:44.20``Eriktwo big honkin' spikes, one on each side of the head
15:44.27``Erikoptimus prime style, yo
15:44.40clock_brlcad: if you print out some long listing in mged, then press page up, page down and then type a command, it types the command in front of the prompt instead of after the prompt. And then it ignores the command. Isn't this a bug?
15:58.02brlcada long-standing one, minor annoyance that nobody has bothered trying to track down
16:00.08``Erikis it in the tracker?
16:01.06brlcadmaybe, don't remember
16:04.00brlcadeither way, now it's in BUGS
16:04.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged command prompt will have the cursor reset to before the 'mged>' prompt after performing certain actions (e.g. page up/down)
16:05.45brlcadsomething to do with the text-area tk widget as mged doesn't specifically have a page up/down binding
16:06.01brlcadat least I just went looking for it and don't see it
16:10.25``Erikstill fighting tcl, I take it?
16:11.53brlcadchugging along
16:12.06brlcadit's all compiling now, but some portability annoyances with pic crap again now
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18:20.54debarshiWhat is the license of BRL-CAD?
18:29.25clock_GPL
18:30.03debarshiclock_: Thanks.
19:00.04SWATright...
19:00.31SWATthat information can't be found on the project page or on sourceforge or something ;)
19:10.53IriX64pkg_suckin read error?
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20:37.11``Eriklgpl with bsd chucnks (and a couple others iirc0, actually
21:41.46brlcadclock_: it's predominantly LGPL now
21:42.21brlcadBSD for the build system, benchmark suite, testing scripts, a few other utility scripts, and the documentation
21:44.31brlcadwhich according to ohloh is about an 80/20 split percentage-wise
21:51.59``Erikhuh, neat, a cvs analyzer
21:54.31``Erikpretty easy to spot 'major events' on that timeline...
21:54.51``Erikjra goes to 0 at the start of hell project.. and the move to sf...
21:56.57``Erikkinda unfortunate cvs isn't aware of moving files or silly things like scripts... someone is overrepresented :D
22:01.41clock_``Erik: svn is
22:01.54clock_``Erik: I used first CVS, then Arch, and now SVN on Ronja
22:02.13clock_CVS sucks by design
22:02.24clock_Arch sucked at the moment when it was unable to read it's own archive
22:02.39clock_got trashed at that moment and replaced by Subversion.
22:02.43``Eriksvn captures file moves because it's change set based instead of file history...
22:02.53``Erikbut it doesn't do, say, scriptware monitoring
22:03.44``Erikso "find . -type f | xargs sed -E -i.bak 's/[ \t]+$//'" ends up looking like a lot of diligent work...
22:05.34``ErikI'm also fairly against restructering organization... generally means it wasn't thought out in the first place... BRL-CAD warranted one as it's an ancient project and conventions had changed radically... :)
22:30.46``ErikO.o
22:30.55MaloeranIt's only when writing the networking demos that I realized it was a pain for the user to manage the clients, synchronize its own data ( textures, whatever )
22:31.13MaloeranSo I shifted design for the library to take care of everything ; including user-land data
22:31.21``Erikayup, gotta make sure the right bits are at the right place at the right time
22:31.39MaloeranNow, it doesn't even have to care what, how and when clients connect ; work is just silently distributed
22:31.41``Erikif the planets of your created universe don't align just right, it don't go
22:32.42Maloeran50 days, mmhm :)
22:33.11``Erik50 days is terminal... the goal should be a fair bit inside of that :)
22:33.41MaloeranRight, I'm returning to the work output of the first couple months, AI experiments ( working quite well by the way ) will wait
22:35.02MaloeranHow's the wrapper thing coming along?
22:35.15``Erikslowly
22:35.17``ErikI'm lazy
22:35.22``Erikand distracted
22:35.31MaloeranAh, so I'm not the only one :)
22:36.07``Erikoh
22:36.12``Erikand I got to write two project plans this week
22:36.26MaloeranSounds great! Aren't you overflowing with motivation?
22:36.30``Erikheh
22:36.46``ErikI've already put forward the idea of putting a jar on my desk and if anyone asks me a question, they have to put a buck in it
22:37.51``Eriklibrt is wired into the framework and working ok, adrt is 'mostly' wired in, extracting triangle info from the csg's is the part I'm working on now... and the ray fire SHOULD be a trivial thing after that
22:38.30``Erikbut once I have adrt wired in, I'll have to fix the control function to provide the proper 'golden' shots and a grid
22:38.40MaloeranYour single-ray function is called from multiple threads, right?
22:38.45``Erikno
22:38.49MaloeranOh.
22:38.55``Erikright now, it's all single threaded
22:39.10``Erikbut I could easily thread it out somewhere... it's a single shot function, though
22:39.34MaloeranIs it meant to be threaded? Because I would need to keep track of data specific to each thread, just some pointer... If it's single threaded, I can just put that stuff as globals
22:39.53``Erikno, at the moment, I'm thinking straight up single threaded
22:40.19``Erikand mebbe, if it's appropriate, we could do a quick 'by thumb' scalability exercise... which'd probably be the distributed aspect more than the threaded aspect
22:42.06MaloeranEh, scalability and threading for shooting one ray at a time, what a mess :)
22:42.56``Erikwell, this framework is for three reasons
22:43.06``Erikto make sure rayforce produces reasonably correct results
22:43.15``Erikand demo how it can be wired into the 'goal' application...
22:43.24``Erikand to prove at least 5x over adrt
22:43.45MaloeranAt least 5x could be tight if you don't give me SSE-packed ray batches
22:43.52MaloeranBut you know that already
22:44.08``Erikif it fails the 5x, we'll start looking why and if adrt was unfairly advantaged... and go from there *shrug*
22:44.41``Erikand 'reasonably' correct is something that'll be a discussion (based on perliminary results) with leebert and possibly mark
22:45.19``Erikif you're thinking 'function call overhead', I've already put forth the idea of having a dumby function (just returns) to measure that and subtract it from both engines times
22:45.26``Erikdummy
22:46.01MaloeranIt's not really the calling overhead... It's the fact that a one-ray-at-a-time function discards all optimisation based on the coherency and locality of rays
22:46.21MaloeranPlus of course the SSE packing
22:46.44MaloeranDo you have any raw numbers on adrt?
22:46.52``Erikhm, *shrug* from eyeball comparisons, you have ntohing to worry about..
22:46.54``Eriknot really :/
22:47.14``ErikI think I remember something about 1.2m r/s on a dual 2.4ghz xeon?
22:47.40MaloeranSeriously, don't under-estimate the huge blow one-ray-a-at-time tracing will deal...
22:47.56``ErikI might be completely in err, I have a vague recollection of 1.2m, and I THINK that was on a certain machine...
22:47.58MaloeranI see. How many triangles in there?
22:48.20``ErikI d'no, a few million? triagle number should be a very minor influence
22:48.45MaloeranTriangle count is a very minor difference as long as I can use my ray sources to exploit locality... Grah :)
22:49.30``Eriklike I said... we'll give it a whack... if the mark isn't met, we'll look why and try to fair things up a bit :)
22:49.43Maloeran1.2m is first-hit only, right?
22:49.45``Erik<-- ain't trying to jack you, just trying to get the green light with as little effort as possible
22:49.53``Erikum, I think full shot? might be first hit, I don't recall
22:50.08MaloeranThere's quite a difference between the two... :)
22:50.11``Erikadrt suffers from full depth tracing as it calls a function every hit
22:50.21``Erikand I'm testing full depth
22:50.52``Erik(might be worth doing both... also; the 5x is awfully vague...)
22:50.56MaloeranI call a function per "batch" of hits too, so that the user can prematurely cancel traversal
22:51.05``Erikin fact, of that entire contract, the 5x one is the one that irks me the most O:-)
22:51.44MaloeranI really think it should be 5x times faster to solve specific problems, presented in the optimal manner for both engines
22:52.00brlcad``Erik: yeah, ohloh is pretty nifty .. i've been working lightly with them to fix some of their processing problems -- our stats are outright wrong atm
22:52.36brlcadadded the project a few weeks ago
22:56.40brlcadhm, i did account for ws commits and major moves with statcvs -- that mostly affected user 'morrison'
22:57.29IriX64ahha the guardian of the "boxen" :)
22:58.16``Erikcollapsing pre and post results woulda been nice :) woulda put me on the first page, heh
22:58.30brlcadnot normalized, here is a snapshot of the most recent: http://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/cvs.html
22:58.33``Erikan "aka" knob
22:58.54``Erikwas '83 the first year of rcs?
22:59.13brlcadyep
22:59.31``Erikhuh, bob's been hittin' it hard the last decade
23:00.01``Eriksee, in '04, I have both names... if those were combined, I wonder if I woulda stepped up above lee...
23:00.25``Eriknice to see I'm a standing name in '03, for a whole 2.5 months heh
23:00.27brlcadMaloeran: of course not ;)
23:00.55``Erikmal: it's about as useful as measuring programmer expertise by LOC
23:01.15IriX6448? how does the left hand ahhhh never mind ;)
23:01.29``Erikone of the very few impressive things microsoft has done is try to debunk that notion in the early 80's, yet here we still use it, heh
23:02.09MaloeranI heard that mesuring LOC/month was common in some environments, scary
23:02.41``Erikwhat's keeping you, irix? hop to, submit patches, one of us will review it and either bounce it back with feedback or apply it and shove your name in the contributors file
23:03.03``Erikif you don't know where to start, look at the bugs and feature request trackers on sf... grab one owned by 'nobody'
23:03.16IriX64for(i=1;toinfinity;i++) printf("Line 1 %d\n",i);
23:03.32``Erik10 print "Hi"
23:03.34``Erik20 goto 10
23:03.36MaloeranI also read ( from efnet's #c ) that the average productivity was 300-500 lines of code per month, which is even scarier
23:03.36``Erik:D
23:03.49IriX64mines generating LOC ;)
23:04.02``Erikbear in mind, mal, the average environment is rife with meetings, training, email, and other bullshit
23:04.20``Erik40 hours a work week, you might get 5-10 hours of productive code time
23:04.27MaloeranOuch :)
23:05.18``Erik(tht's after taking the cut for ramp-up and ramp-down from interruptions as well as 'dain bread because I'm here during specified hours')
23:06.04brlcadMaloeran: there was a study done several months back that showed, on average across the entire industry that programmers only generate about 2000 lines of maintainable/sustainable code per year
23:07.51brlcada dev might be able to generate 2000 in a given month, but it's mostly useless/unmaintainable and is either thrown away or becomes obsolete or is rewritten
23:07.52MaloeranThis is terrifying. Considering this is an average and some must do 10 times that, there are a lot of bad programmers roaming around
23:08.07``Erikevery time I crank up an editor on some code, put my feet up and get ready to code, SOMEONE walks into my office with a stupid question or something
23:08.11``Erikactually
23:08.29``Erikit happens about when I'm ready to write code, after I remember all of what I was doing last
23:09.06``Erik(heh, and I do it to brlcad allllll the time)
23:09.33brlcadthe report more showed that most code is useless from a long-term perspective -- how useful is most of the code you've written today going to be unmodified 10 years from now sorts of implications
23:09.46MaloeranAh yes, 10 years is a long time
23:10.03brlcadit's easy to churn out tons of code, just like it's easy to write long crappy essays ones whole life
23:10.09MaloeranI don't think my SSE code will survive that long, but I hope the rest is mostly good
23:10.33brlcadi think you'll be survived about even "the rest" if you divert onto different projects
23:10.36``Erikhm, 2 (sorta 3) with over 20 years legacy
23:10.58brlcadi've revisited code after 10-15 years only to see it all totally alien
23:11.09brlcadcode i've written that is
23:11.15MaloeranAhah, neat
23:11.18``Erikheh, me too
23:11.25MaloeranFrankly, I don't remember my code too well either after a couple years
23:11.33brlcadsome of it I grok'd right away.. but a lot of it not so well
23:11.43``Erikcode from even 10 years ago makes me go "wtf was I thinking?"
23:12.08brlcadwasn't until probably a good decade that a good balance of comments, structure, and conventions settled down
23:12.22``ErikI hope that means I've drastically improved... and I hope in 10 years, I look at todays code and say the same thing, otherwise I'm not improving... *cough*
23:12.31brlcadexactly
23:12.36MaloeranIn fact, barely a few months later, when trying to document the graph preparation code... I had to pause for 30 minutes to understand how some weird pass worked
23:12.46``ErikI'd be scared to see the code I wrote 20 yrs ago, heh
23:13.09brlcadheh, if that happens in just a couple months.. you've got a ways to go :)
23:14.02MaloeranAh the code isn't bad :), it's just both complex and optimized
23:14.09``ErikI lost all my code from '83 to '96 :(
23:14.26``Erikbut it was all cbm stuff
23:14.38brlcadMaloeran: complexity and documentation are two factors on code, not just functionality
23:15.08``Erik'unmaintable' becomes 'obsolete' very very fast
23:15.15``Eriklike, 2 days after it's "done"
23:15.41brlcadreadability, maintainability, optimization clarity (sometimes semi-contradictory), complexity/simplicity, quantity, hmm..
23:15.45``Erikunmainainable
23:16.14``Erikmaintainability infers readability and clarity :D
23:16.24MaloeranYes yes, I'm complete writing the documentation... when I read about how to generate "summaries", several paragraphs not attached to functions or files in Doxygen
23:16.38MaloeranI'll* complete
23:16.57brlcad``Erik: to an extent.. maintainability has other factors including familiarity, language choices, patterns/paradigms, etc
23:18.11MaloeranAny keyword to look up on how to generate overviews, summaries, general explanations in Doxygen?
23:19.16``Erikah, if only it were all in scheme *sigh*
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070211

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070211

00:14.06*** join/#brlcad disi (n=5089e00c@bz.bzflag.bz)
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01:28.47``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/media/billies-dad.mov
01:32.04brlcadheh.. "At times I think libtool's motto should be "libtool - given what a pain
01:32.06brlcadit is, just imagine how bad the alternatives must be.""
03:36.51brlcadnifty, actually process all of the log message comments and collapse duplicates now so you can get a count of actual commit changesets
03:36.54brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/statcvs/cvs.html
03:39.00brlcadso, for e.g., ws and copyright changes across all directories actually just get counted as 1 change now instead of 500
03:40.19IriX64keeping score ;)
03:41.19brlcadand looks like i'm just about halfway to mike .. which is about right.. he's got 17 years, I only have about 8 :)
03:41.33IriX64:)
03:41.38brlcadIriX64: fun useless but interesting statistics ;)
03:42.02IriX64very you should get royalties on each submission :)
03:44.05brlcadI do .. just in the form of percentage sales.  *ahem* ;)
03:44.31IriX64military nickels no doubt :)
03:44.38MaloeranAny way to see the count of lines of code? I'm just curious
03:44.43brlcad(xx% of $0.0 in sales is $0.0 royalties ;)
03:45.01brlcadMaloeran: yes, you have a latest checkout handy?
03:45.24MaloeranNot exactly "latest", but I can do that
03:45.44brlcadsomething updated within the past couple weeks should do
03:45.49brlcadrun: sh/enumerate.sh
03:45.51MaloeranOh, I mean the count of lines in the cvs commits, not the total count from the current source
03:45.56brlcadahh
03:47.22brlcadthat would be mildly more tricky to process and tabulate all the + - counts .. and would be heavily skewed by ws, headers/footers, and copyright changes
03:47.47MaloeranOf course so. As I said, it's mere curiousity
03:47.52brlcadwould really need to go file by file, do a cvs diff -b -B between versions and get a running count
03:48.12brlcadper author, per file.. yeesh
03:48.30brlcad(which is what ohloh actually does to detect change counts)
03:49.42MaloeranI see... All right, seems troublesome
03:50.07MaloeranFrom the statistics, I gather that Prasad left the channel as well as the project
03:52.46brlcad~seen pra5ad
03:53.24ibotpra5ad <n=pra5ad@pool-70-16-21-23.balt.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 88d 11h 2m 44s ago, saying: 'ah'.
03:53.51brlcadyeah, he was going to hang around, but he's been starting a new job, new distractions
03:54.07brlcadplus he's kinda lazy when it comes to coding in his spare time :)
03:55.30Maloeran:) Ah well, I sometimes wonder what happened to the old dream of building raytracing hardware
03:55.44MaloeranAn old dream of Justin, Erik and I... but the interest hasn't survived very long
05:21.24brlcadhmm, in two years, I'll jump into the top 5
05:27.31MaloeranI'm sure if you put a script in a loop for just one night...
05:28.00brlcadit's easily doable.. I just don't want to write that script :)
05:28.11MaloeranOh? :)
05:28.13brlcadeasy != quick
05:29.05brlcadmaybe later when the stats are integrated into the website
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08:23.54clock_brlcad: rtedge produces deformed lines, you can see it many times at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d, and I have just bugreported it.
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15:54.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): don't add tcl or tk to the dependancy list if using the system ones
15:55.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: recursive dep install target
16:47.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: install-depends should install the dependancies, not just make them... oops.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070212

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070212

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03:22.11MaloeranErik or brlcad, are you there? I could use your knowledge of non-Linux platforms
03:23.14MaloeranBasically, I would like to solve the problem of running on NUMA platforms. Having a copy of the datasets into each memory bank, and having specific threads on specific cores working on each copy is something that can be done on Linux
03:24.26MaloeranSince that might be tricky to support all platforms this way, I was thinking about a more general way... Each die, each chunk of cores accessing the same memory bank, could have its own process running ; the processes working together by distributed processing
03:25.22MaloeranAre other platforms clever enough to allocate memory into the memory bank specific to the processor a process is running on? Are they bright enough to put all the threads of the process on the cores of the same die?
03:25.57MaloeranThat really would be a simple solution. The processes can synchronize each other by shared memory to avoid most of the networking overhead
03:29.28``Eriknot always
03:29.44MaloeranCan it be manually forced?
03:29.51``Erikfbsd doesn't seem to do bank association on amd64 from dorking around... no way to force it
03:30.00MaloeranI think that's far less trouble than having NUMA-aware built in ; just having a process per memory bank
03:30.05MaloeranOuch!
03:30.32``Erikand if you have one hard running thread hard running on a dual proc mac, it'll aggressively rotate it between procs to keep temps even
03:30.43MaloeranThis is terrible
03:30.53``Erik*shrug* it's the way things go
03:31.22``Erik(the bsd thing needs to be fixed... if I had free time, I'd get elbow deep into the allocator and scheduler and make it happen... but time is a rare commodity)
03:31.58MaloeranDo you have any thought about numa-aware code within a single process, storing multiple copies of the dataset, or just having multiple synchronized processes?
03:32.32``Erikthat all depends on if there's enough ram *shrug*
03:32.32MaloeranThe second way seems easier to get to work on different OSes, if the OSes themselves are numa-aware
03:32.40MaloeranRight, of coures
03:32.44Maloerancourse, even
03:35.22MaloeranI'm surprised that, even manually, one can't force threads on cores and allocation in banks... That's probably part of the explanation on why clusters don't run BSD
03:37.29brlcada lot of similar concepts to numa
03:38.01brlcadadditional reading with details on threading: http://www-941.ibm.com/collaboration/wiki/display/WikiPtype/POWER5+Architecture
03:38.34MaloeranThanks brlcad, seems similar to the Opteron docs I read at first glance
03:39.31MaloeranI'm mostly wondering about how to solve the software aspect of the problem
03:41.01brlcadeh, devil the in details .. exceptionally high-end server market, no commodity aspects
03:41.15brlcadthe documents go into software implications
03:41.23MaloeranRight, great
03:41.48brlcadin particular the latter that details execution, threading, and memory management
03:42.25brlcadcould probably get an account on an sp4 to play with
03:42.47MaloeranWouldn't that be Power5-OSX specific? It's awfully specific to the OS, there's no standard for NUMA management
03:43.26brlcados x doesn't run on power5
03:43.45MaloeranMacOS9 then :), I really didn't follow that line of software
03:44.06brlcadthe power series are what are used by the high-end supercomputers
03:44.21brlcadthey have no relation to apple/mac
03:45.05MaloeranOh. Great
03:46.24brlcadthe G4 and G5 have architecture aspects similar to the power series, and some have suggested that the G5 is effectively the Power3 or Power4 with some of the high-end supercomputing facilities removed (data management, simultaneous core execution, larger L1/L2/L3 memories, etc, etc)
03:47.02MaloeranThanks, that clears things up
03:47.28``Erik'cept the g[45] series have altivec, ibm/ppc doesn't
03:47.44``Erik'cluster' is an awfully broad term o.O
03:47.57MaloeranExactly :)
03:48.16``Erikthat's like saying you want to learn how to write assembly for computers...
03:49.11MaloeranThe comparison is valid ; learning assembly for the main architectures, or learning scalable software for the main cluster architectures
03:51.33brlcadvalid, but potentially vary misleading -- comparing athlon/G5/P4/whatever to the Power architecture is sort of like comparing the GForce 2 to the Quaddro FX .. there are correlations, but one is the exceptional high-end with various features that can be leveraged for extra order(s) performance
03:54.53``Erikheh, my analogy was to point out how vague the notion of mals statement was, as there are many radically different archs... as there are cluster technologies *shrug*
03:55.32``Erikheh, yeah, the power line displaced the mips line, its immediate ancestor.. :D
03:56.04brlcadyeah, and have been king ever since.. for what? a decade now?
03:56.26brlcadsince at least 1998 iirc
03:56.48MaloeranErik, and I'm interested in learning scalable programming for the main ones
03:56.48``Erikthe unf/$ leans more towards opterons, though *shrug*
03:56.52brlcadopteron has certainly been on the rise with the revival of cray
03:57.10``Eriksome amusing quotes from seymour
03:58.08MaloeranNUMA-aware threading code isn't too much trouble on Linux, but as for some other OSes..
03:58.08``Erik'numa' is a pretty broad category
03:58.13MaloeranAssigning threads to memory banks is a fairly simple concept
03:58.47``Erikthe simplest of forms and provided the OS exposes it, sure *shrug*
03:59.01brlcadat the top 500 level, it rarely has to do with $$.. it's reliability and performance first followed by probably support and installation impact
03:59.35brlcadthe technology is usually second to just computing things as fast as possible
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070213

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070213

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05:30.12MaloeranThis is lovely.
05:30.16Maloeranlin-lwp.c:1729: internal-error: kill_wait_callback: Assertion `pid == -1 && errno == ECHILD' failed.    A problem internal to GDB has been detected,
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14:13.51``Erikheh
14:14.39archivist"must try harder" 2 out of 10
14:18.27``Erikmal's progress report, as neutered and de-tech'd by a couple layers of mgmt types... :)
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16:27.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
16:32.26MaloeranCool Erik, can I see that? :)
16:32.38MaloeranOh, you tried to send on Efnet alerady
16:32.41Maloeranalready, too
16:33.01MaloeranAh no, it was the wrapping framework headers
18:10.48``Erika little part, nothing interesting yet...
18:11.14``ErikMAYBE I'll be able to get you the rest this week
18:11.49MaloeranWee, one ray at a time. All right, thanks
18:15.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: report the ident footer (which includes the version of this script now) with --version output
18:29.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: check for autoreconf before autoconv/automake/libtool
18:35.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: improve adrt's integration, ensure compilation/execution works reliably cross-platform -- get latest changes being used by muves teams to libtie. add update of tcl/tk since that is currently going on.
18:54.54``Erikadrt will be equally crippled, dude *shrug* and if we don't get the numbers we want, we'll fix things up better
19:04.21MaloeranADRT was not written to exploit : SSE packed tracing, ray coherency, ray locality
19:04.37MaloeranSo I believe RF will be far more crippled, but we'll see
19:25.19CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): start redoing the TCP server interface to actualy work, and not suck.
20:07.27IriX64make install
20:07.35IriX64sorry :(
20:10.30IriX64wonder if this thing actually runs.
20:11.27IriX64btw if you don't use --prefix, the build puts the html dir in your root dir.
20:12.17IriX64configure reports awf and brlman to have an undefined variable called datarootdir.
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20:51.28brlcadIriX64: what platform/shell has that behavior?
20:51.39IriX64bash
20:51.57brlcadunder which OS?
20:52.03IriX64cygwin
20:52.06brlcadhmm
20:52.30brlcadgrep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/Makefile
20:52.36brlcadwhat does that output?
20:52.37IriX64ty
20:53.29IriX64just sitting there.
20:53.48brlcader
20:54.03brlcadyou did type the doc/html/Makefile part, yes?
20:54.09IriX64goof (meaning me just a sec.)
20:54.28brlcadthat should be run from the directory that has configure
20:54.44IriX64no such file or directory.
20:54.59brlcad"that should be run from the directory that has configure"
20:55.11IriX64it is
20:55.36brlcadls doc/html
20:56.00brlcad[morrison@hole (Tue Feb 13 15:55:26) ~/brlcad]$ ls  doc/html
20:56.01brlcadCVS             Makefile        Makefile.am     Makefile.in     ReleaseNotes    manuals
20:56.19IriX64ls doc/htmlmake file.am .in releasenotes and manual.
20:56.57brlcadhow come you don't have a Makefile ?  did you run make distclean or something?
20:57.07IriX64yep
20:57.20brlcadthat's kinda important to tell me ;)
20:57.30IriX64whup apologies :)
20:57.51brlcadgrep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/Makefile.in
20:58.15brlcadand .. grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in
20:58.28brlcador just the latter even
20:58.38brlcadshould be two lines
20:58.38brlcadBRLCAD_DATA = @BRLCAD_DATA@
20:58.39brlcadhtmldocsdir = $(BRLCAD_DATA)/html/manuals
20:58.54brlcaddo you see something different?
20:59.01IriX64BRLCAD_DATA  = @BRLCAD_DATA@
20:59.17IriX64only one line
20:59.30brlcadin which file
20:59.37IriX64.in
20:59.40brlcaddoc/html will be just one line
20:59.47brlcaddoc/html/manuals should have two
21:00.23IriX64has none.
21:00.51brlcadhuh?  you ran: grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in
21:00.55brlcadand it reported no lines?
21:01.02IriX64reported one line.
21:01.14brlcadread carefully, you're telling me two things
21:01.36brlcadgrep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in    <-- note the manuals part
21:01.58IriX64my mistake both only have one line.
21:02.15IriX64not used to grep man ;)
21:02.30brlcadgrep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.am    outputs what?
21:03.42IriX64htmldocsdir = $(BRLCAD_DATA)/html/manuals
21:04.23brlcadthen "grep BRLCAD_DATA doc/html/manuals/Makefile.in" cannot have only one line ...
21:04.45brlcads/cannot/really should not/
21:05.05IriX64specifying --prefix is a workaround.
21:05.42brlcadi got that much, trying to figure why something that basic would fail
21:06.40brlcadwhen it "puts it in the root" .. what dir does it create and where?
21:06.58IriX64html in the root dir of the system.
21:07.22IriX64<PROTECTED>
21:07.29brlcadhmmm.. maybe if...
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21:08.27IriX64just went by again, i'm configuring.
21:09.35brlcadgrep usr/brlcad configure
21:09.59brlcadis that this?  ac_default_prefix=/usr/brlcad
21:10.24IriX64ac_default_prefix=/usr/brlcad
21:11.13IriX64shall i paste the warning?
21:11.17brlcadorsure
21:11.33IriX64config.status: WARNING: src/brlman/awf contains a reference to the variable `dat
21:11.33IriX64arootdir'
21:11.33IriX64which seems to be undefined.  Please make sure it is defined.
21:11.33IriX64config.status: creating src/brlman/brlman
21:11.33IriX64config.status: WARNING: src/brlman/brlman contains a reference to the variable `
21:11.36IriX64datarootdir'
21:11.38IriX64which seems to be undefined.  Please make sure it is defined.
21:13.04brlcadcan you pastebin or send me your awf or brlman ?
21:13.52IriX64brlman? brlman.1? or brlman.in?
21:14.13brlcadbrlman
21:14.23IriX64how do i deliver it to you?
21:14.32brlcadwhat works for you?
21:14.46brlcad~pastebin
21:14.55ibotpastebin is, like, a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/
21:14.55brlcadwould be the most convenient
21:14.55IriX64dunno haven't transfreed files in s *long time :)
21:15.55brlcadif you go to one of those three urls, you can paste the contents of brlman
21:16.00brlcador awf
21:17.09IriX64pastebin.ca has it.
21:17.31brlcadheh, you're supposed to provide me that url it tells you
21:17.40IriX64arrgh.
21:18.22brlcadafter you hit submit post
21:18.39brlcadyou're not one of the recent ones.. doesn't look like you posted it yet
21:19.19IriX64just posted it again.
21:19.49IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/354242
21:20.14brlcadthere we go.. that's better :)
21:20.21IriX64:)
21:21.05IriX64bbiab nature yells :)
21:21.35``Erikheh
21:21.47brlcadpeculiar.. your BRLCAD_DATA is getting set to ${datarootdir}
21:21.50``Erikpaste.lisp.org is cooler, and has a 'report' bot on this network... O:-)
21:24.02brlcadIriX64: grep datadir=\' configure
21:32.18brlcadIriX64: grep BRLCAD include/brlcad_config.h
21:32.19IriX64${datarootdir}
21:32.34brlcadyeah, that's wonky..
21:32.48IriX64not your problem ?
21:33.00brlcadI think I can compensate for it
21:33.04brlcadwhat's: grep BRLCAD include/brlcad_config.h
21:34.15IriX64$ grep BRLCAD include/brlcad_config.h
21:34.15IriX64#define BRLCAD_DATA "${datarootdir}"
21:34.16IriX64#define BRLCAD_ROOT "/usr/solariscad"
21:34.19IriX64#define BRLCAD_VERSION "7.8.4"
21:35.24brlcadeek
21:35.32brlcadgood to know, that's a separate problem
21:35.38IriX64$... ?
21:36.35IriX64autoconf?
21:36.47brlcadyeah
21:36.57IriX64version 2.6
21:37.50brlcadthe autoconf you're using with cygwin is setting datadir to a variable that must be evaluated else you end up with variable turds like you're seeing
21:38.18IriX64ill get me a new autoconf or fix this one, i have source.
21:38.23brlcadnot so much a bug on their part but inconsistent behavior (they don't do that elsewhere afaihs) that we'll need to compensate for
21:38.29brlcad2.6 doesn't sound right
21:38.42IriX642.60
21:38.46brlcadahh
21:38.56brlcadokay, that could/would be why
21:39.04brlcadthat's a newer (protocol-breaking) version
21:39.17IriX64thanks for this one i set prefix=solariscad.
21:39.35brlcadthis should fix it
21:39.49IriX64does already tested it.
21:40.29brlcadheh, no.. i mean for noticing the problem.. I have a fix here going in
21:40.38IriX64oh sorry.
21:40.41IriX64:)
21:44.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
21:44.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: compensate for an autoconf inconsistency issue where apparently newer 2.60+
21:44.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: autoconf is setting datadir to datarootdir as a default, causing a need to
21:44.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: evaluate datadir before using it with things like AC_DEFINE and AC_SUBST values.
21:44.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: do an explicit eval echo like is done for the summary printing.
21:44.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: thanks to IriX64 for noticing the problem and helping pinpoint the cause. the problem affected most BRLCAD_DATA installation paths as well as awf and brlman (which use BRLCAD_DATA).
21:48.48``Erikw00t
21:51.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: reorganize so the eval expansion happens only once.
22:32.23IriX64question.. is there some issue I don't know about that affects shared library builds? every time I try to build shared libraries, I get undefined references.
22:36.17CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): get the TCP server class to read data and call it's listeners.
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23:43.56CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp):
23:43.56CIA-5libIRC: data send methods for server connected peers.
23:43.56CIA-5libIRC: disonection functions for server connected peers.
23:43.56CIA-5libIRC: disconection notification for servers.
23:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
23:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: there does seem to be a ray-trace consistency failure in the solids.sh
23:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: regression test case where it fails on Mac OS X with one pixel exhibiting an
23:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: off-by-many error on the edge of the middle ARB8. this only seems to occur when
23:51.51CIA-5BRL-CAD: using an optimized -O3 compile (and using -fno-unsafe-math-optimizations seems
23:51.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: to make no difference) possibly indicating a floating point/tolerance issue that
23:51.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: needs to be accounted for so that results are exactly repeatable regardless.
23:55.36MaloeranExactly repeatable? Picky :)
23:56.09MaloeranThe compiler could just be shuffling instructions around, meaning the ray that was hitting the primitive no longuer does
23:58.06``Erikwhich means the optimizer broke it, and that's important to know...
23:59.41MaloeranOptimizers shuffle instructions around when it leads to the "same" result, mathematically speaking
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070214

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070214

00:01.05MaloeranDoes the OSX bug occur on ia32 using the x87 instruction set? FPU stack conversions to and from 80 bits will cause differences
00:10.05IriX64may i ask a question re shared libs thing?
00:10.19brlcadthat is very much related to the issue, but is exactly the sort of problems that I was referring to that are predominantly accounted for now
00:10.39IriX64the autoconf thing then?
00:11.07brlcad~ask
00:11.14ibothmm... ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there, just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
00:11.14brlcad:)
00:11.22brlcadbah
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00:12.09IriX64power bump grrr.... :)
00:12.24IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/354478
00:12.40IriX64look at the last few lines.
00:12.55IriX64libpng.so.1 does not exist here.
00:13.02brlcadMaloeran: the point is that in pretty much all of the cases, the differences and misses can be accounted for -- and librt works extensively to make sure that results are repeatable as it can't be emphasized as to the importance that has with simulation studies
00:14.13brlcadso missing just one pixel in a large render on an edge case .. is actually considered a significant BUG that has to be addressed .. not just a compiler behavior to be accepted -- they can (and should) be accounted for, or at least thoroughly understood as to what the *exact* cause is
00:15.01brlcadto date (and that date being 20+ years), there's not been a case of hardware/compiler goo that could not be accounted for by some means
00:16.18brlcadIriX64: at a glance, looks like a libtool bug .. but there's not much information to go with
00:16.28brlcadall the error indicates is that ld failed for some unknown reason
00:17.18brlcadwould have to turn up gcc's verbosity and compile by hand to see what happened
00:17.55brlcadalternatively, you could install png via usual cygwin means, and let configure auto-detect it so it doesn't try to build the bundled libpng
00:18.27Maloeranbrlcad, if we suppose a ray is hitting right on the edge of a triangle, any little difference caused by the compiler may swap the result ; if it hits or it doesn't
00:18.58MaloeranAnd you know that already... I guess it must just be explained, but the compiler will cause that kind of "artefacts"
00:19.37Twingyartifacts
00:24.52IriX64brlcad: ty
01:38.35brlcadMaloeran: of course that can happen -- the issue is more knowing exactly when it happens and being sure that is what is really happening when a difference is encountered
01:39.36brlcadover the years, it's often been the case that there was either a bug in the hardware, or a bug in system routines (e.g. sqrt) that would have gone unnoticed had it all been assumed to be just compiler reordering
01:40.34brlcadeven with reordering, a lot of differences can sometimes/often be accounted for -- checking for things consistently with tolerance for example, so if you're an edge case, you actually compare with tolerance considerations so it doesn't matter how it's ordered
01:42.36brlcadrequires a lot more care and thought on the implementation, something that is rarely (never?) a concern for optical tracing, but is considerably important for simulation purposes that need to be repeatable studies or at least fully understood behavior (so it can be expected and classes of results can be observed)
01:43.55brlcadthe CS aspects cannot overwhelm and are not more important than the engineering and scientific purposes that the codes are written for
01:44.31dtidrowlikely less important, in fact
01:45.02brlcadusually extremely
01:45.14brlcadwhich is why a lot of the code is shit unfortunately too
01:45.15dtidrowyep
01:46.15brlcadthough sometimes it's not too, I think you'll just find all sorts just like people ;)
01:46.20MaloeranEven with tolerance, it can almost be considered random exactly on the edge of the tolerance
01:47.03MaloeranI think the point is that the tolerance shouldn't matter. If the ray of a pixel goes directly on the edge of a triangle, it doesn't matter if the triangle is hit or not
01:49.44CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): kill a connection if the listeners don't want it.
01:53.04brlcadthat was just one example
01:54.35brlcadsome issues can be accounted for by considering tolerance, some have nothing to do with tolerance
01:55.18brlcadfor something like the edge case of a triangle, you could -- again, for example -- test if it's on the edge and consistently report a hit or miss
01:55.45brlcadwhatever impact that causes on performance is secondary if it results in numerical stability
01:55.46CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): give the hostmask and ip back seperately.
01:56.21MaloeranThat triangle edge test could be subject to a bit of rounding too, but I get the idea
01:57.02MaloeranMy raytracer sure causes a whole lot of off-by-many ; same hardware, same scene, even same compiled executable
01:57.14brlcadyep, but then that specifically would be a case where tolerance would give you invariant results (within the specified tolerance)
01:57.27MaloeranThe graph is different on every run, and that clearly changes the results a tiny bit
01:58.26brlcadyes, and the case can be made (and has been made) that the purpose of your tracer is filling a niche where the impact and varaince is probably acceptible
01:58.52MaloeranAll right, thanks
01:59.30brlcadthat doesn't give a carte blanche to ignore the variances though ;)  the differences will (at least initially) probably be investigated one-by-one so that they are understood
02:00.26brlcad(in a real analysis and with test cases, part of the production polish)
02:01.26brlcadI suspect the bigger issue with integrating your tracer is not going to be edge cases.. :)
02:01.51MaloeranYes, quite right, unfortunately... :)
02:02.47MaloeranReally, I think the API is efficient, clean, flexible and complete.  Because of that, it of course isn't "simple"
02:02.47brlcadaside from politics and other issues, it's going to be issues caused from your tracer's fundamental approach of not retaining knowledge of solid geometry
02:03.04MaloeranOh. I assumed it was the interface
02:03.09brlcadinside out issues, problems building intersection segments, etc
02:03.42MaloeranInside-out issues can be cleanly handled *if* the interface is used as such with ray sources
02:04.13brlcadyou're still thinking at the CS level -- the interface is somewhat irrelevant other than impacting performance
02:04.45MaloeranI'm saying that if the native interface is used, handling intersection segments and inside-out issues will not be a problem
02:05.07MaloeranIf the API is butchered to be squeezed into another interface, it will be a problem
02:05.08brlcadI'm saying, I bet it will be regardless of the interface ;)
02:05.24MaloeranIt's one of the things ray sources are meant to solve
02:06.00brlcadhandling of bad geometry will be another problem, and overall robustness of your code I suspect
02:06.06brlcadbut that's all tbd
02:07.43brlcaddo you retain manifolds and topological structure?  other than basic neighbor connectivity that is
02:08.12MaloeranI don't even retain neighbor connectivity :)
02:08.33brlcadthought so.. don't think you're import format even supports the concept of a shared edge iirc
02:09.06brlcadwill be interesting to see what sort of results it has
02:09.12MaloeranGetting duplicate hits on the edges of connected triangles is perfectly normal, and that can be easily and flawlessly corrected with properly oriented meshes
02:10.55brlcadfor a single part, I think that can be easily proven -- for arbitrary collections of parts, not so easy (regions perfectly aligned to other regions, embedded in other regions, lots of various edge cases)
02:11.36brlcadiirc, it's an np-complete problem even if you DO have the toplogical information
02:12.33MaloeranAh yes, you could get two alternate false hits in a row, and it wouldn't be able to correct from the oriented mesh information
02:12.39MaloeranIt's just terribly unlikely though
02:12.45brlcadheh
02:12.53brlcadit happens all the time :)
02:13.09MaloeranTwo consecutive alternate false hits? Gez :)
02:13.29MaloeranPerhaps we don't mean exactly the same thing, but it's probably like one in a billion
02:13.45brlcadmostly caused by floating point math issues, but yeah, it happens
02:14.11MaloeranI think I would need to make a drawing about this special case
02:16.25brlcadI think I know the case, its one of several actually where the segment building goes all out of whack and you basically have to flip a coin
02:17.04brlcadTwingy spent more time that I bet he cared to dealing with getting the segment building to handle a couple of those cases similar to librt
02:17.46Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/error.png
02:17.51brlcadhttp://fogonazos.blogspot.com/2007/02/largest-drain-hole-ever.html
02:18.14MaloeranAssuming all triangles are properly oriented, the code "knows" which sides of the triangles point out and in
02:18.34brlcadoh yeah, that case will come up.. a lot
02:18.49MaloeranThe ray in red will enter at A and exit at B, two consecutive false hits with alternate sides
02:18.59MaloeranReally? It doesn't seem very likely to me
02:19.25MaloeranThe triangles overlap each other just barely enough to cover the numerical imprecision of the ray-triangle intersection code
02:20.17MaloeranIf the two false hits aren't facing in/out exactly, the code can figure it out, two consecutive "in" of course means to ignore the first
02:21.38brlcadyeah, there are lots of similar sorts of concave compartments, structures, and parts where there will be potential for a ray to hit that condition from some viewing perspective
02:22.20MaloeranRight, but it's really not likely to happen
02:23.24brlcadthat depends entirely on the view and the geometry of course
02:23.55brlcadconsidering billions of rays are generally fired for a simulation, one in a billion means it'll likely be encountered a few hundred times causing .. who knows
02:24.00brlcadmay matter, may not
02:24.30Maloeran*nods* I'm hoping one per billion rays won't matter too much...
02:25.17brlcadhehe, that's a case where scientifically it *might* not matter (it's TBD) .. but politically, it might ;-)
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03:15.47CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): get the IRC server class listening and calling methods for events.
03:17.36MaloeranAn IRC server class, in BRL-CAD?
03:18.00MaloeranUnexpected, amusing
05:22.46brlcadMaloeran: no, not in brl-cad
05:23.11brlcadit's a completely separate project that I worked on with jeff a couple years ago, and dabble with from time to time
05:23.17brlcadlibIRC
05:23.36louipcwhat's that written in?
05:24.19brlcadC++
05:25.04brlcadit has/had C callbacks at one point, don't remember where we left off with them
05:30.21brlcadit has a client and server interface, you can set up one or the other .. ane jeff seems to be refactoring some bits today for something he's working on
05:30.49louipcIt reminds me of something similar done in TCL
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09:32.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.1: add initial manual page for pixcmp that includes the variou newly being added options (-l -i -s) along with details on return codes and example use.
09:33.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: include the new pixcmp.1 manual page
09:38.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c:
09:38.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: major rewrite, add support for -s, -l, and -i options for silent, verbose output
09:38.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: (ala cmp's -l option), and support for skipping input. make the return/error
09:38.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: codes more uniform as well as more detail on the usage. still need to actually
09:38.26CIA-5BRL-CAD: add the print statement for -l, but everything else should be done. basic
09:38.28CIA-5BRL-CAD: operation and previous use remains unaffected.
09:42.12CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added support to pixcmp for -s, -l, and -i options for silent, verbose output, and support for skipping input making the interface more similar to cmp. also note the addition of a new manual page for pixcmp too.
13:17.54Twingyhrm
13:18.00Twingyicy
14:11.06``Erikindeed, I'm not going to the office today
14:52.19brlcadhrmph, no connection to cad
15:20.58brlcadwell allrighty then.. that plan didn't work
15:31.32``Erik? car iced over?
15:41.53brlcadyup
15:42.16brlcadand my scraper is sitting in front of my desk
15:52.27``Eriklee was in the office and shut down machines, they had a long power outage
15:52.53``Erik<-- was just on the phone with wendy, she'll try to find someone to light some of them up
15:58.26brlcadcad came back up
15:58.39brlcadand has no downtime, so probably just a switch somewhere
15:59.16brlcadthe x twins are probably lee's doing
16:01.25``Erik... fuck....
16:03.40``Erikbrlcad, think you could tar up ~/.cvs/devel/rtcmp and shoot it to me?
16:05.04``Erik(or ~/src/rtcmp)
16:07.46Twingyuse hot water
16:28.13Twingyif you have salt, hot salty water works good too
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16:29.22Twingyif I owned your car I wouldn't drive in it either
16:31.22louipcI wouldn't think pouring salty water on a car is a good idea
16:31.32archivisthaving seen pics of his last crash, lock ``Erik indoors
16:31.38``Erikheh
16:31.54``Erikback to snow out there
16:35.21``Erikbeing the only accident of any kind that was my fault in 15 yrs, and certain mitigating circumstances, I don't think I'm doing TOO bad... I mean, I've driven on 6" of solid ice, I've gone out of control on an onramp in colorado during a major blizzard, driven through fog with like 20' visibility, ... *shrug*
16:35.41``ErikI had a bout of stupid, and I'm cured of it now. otherwise, I think I'm reasonably competent behind the wheel :D
16:54.23brlcad``Erik: done, in your home on .bz
17:27.31``Erikheh, that means I gotta remember my passwd to .bz :D
17:28.13``Erikor find a valid ssh key'd machine
17:32.40``Erikteh fux, one of my g4's is pinging but not permitting ssh
18:14.59Twingyhah
18:15.06Twingy<PROTECTED>
18:15.17Twingydecided to trim the new plane
18:15.24Twingy3 flights, landings were almost vertical due to wind
18:15.52Twingythe funny thing is at 2 notches of 10 it was as fast as my trainer
18:19.07``Erikwhere'd you fly?
18:19.43``Eriktoo much noise to fly out your back yard, I presume...
18:19.50``Erikfences, trees, houses, etc
18:20.35Twingyedgewood
18:20.37TwingyHS
18:20.56``Erikah, out at their sports fields...
18:21.07Twingyby the third flight I was slushing through
18:21.15``Erikback in missouri, I talked to school admins, they didn' want me to fly due to the liability
18:21.24Twingyheh, ask me if I care :D
18:21.26``Erikthough they thought it was cool
18:21.28``Erik*shrug*
18:21.42``Erik<-- a bit less fast&loose about rules...
18:22.02``Erikthought, oddly enough, I convinced the evil one to seriously bend a rule for me today
18:22.20``Erik<-- working in his dining room O.o
18:22.34Twingyhaha, the evil one
18:22.37``ErikI mean, um, 'having a coordination meeting'
18:22.41TwingyDarth W
18:22.45``Erikayup
18:23.02``Erikthe disturbing part is that darth w sees the darth as a victem
18:23.16``Eriklike, lametard sw, not real s
18:23.16``Eriksw
18:23.32Twingyyes, that does make the satire all the better :)
18:23.47``Erik"where's skankbutt?" "you killed her" "nnnooooooooooocallameeting"
18:24.10Twingythe guys in my branch get a kick out of how many emails I get from wendy
18:24.17``Erikevery once a while, though, there's an omfg wtf
18:24.31Twingychecked my email this week, 2 from my branch, elevendy billion from wendy
18:24.33``Erikhah, yeah, no shit, yesterday, I got like 40 from her out of like 60
18:24.58``Erikand a good number of the 'not from her' emails were automated status things
18:25.05``Erik<-- gets 3 a day from the machines he admins
18:25.33Twingythere's 3 I'd like not to get from machines I don't admin
18:25.35``Erikso over the 3 day weekend I enjoyed... she was still 2/3 of the volume
18:25.59``ErikI don't htink you recieve any from my machines... just the list that you accidently got on, no?
18:26.09Twingythe x's and cad
18:26.16``Erikthose ain't mine
18:26.18Twingyroot@
18:26.22Twingydon't want those
18:26.24``Erikbut I'll look into removing you from that list if it's in my power
18:26.28``Eriktomorrie
18:26.29Twingyhooray
18:26.39Twingythree less delete buttons to press
18:26.49``Erikusing web mail?
18:27.03``Erik<-- has the winderz box, but mostly uses the web mail at wizmer
18:27.04Twingyno, hopping on co-workers computer until lappy ariives
18:27.18``Erikthe other two quit working...
18:27.48Twingywendy got upset when I told her I was checking my email twice a week
18:27.55``Erikhh
18:28.10``Erikwow, twice? you're cutting into your productivity there
18:28.14Twingythe funny thing is, I don't care :)
18:28.30``ErikI've taken the stance that I check it MAYBE once a day... when I get into the office...
18:28.38``Erikno one has given me shit yet
18:31.54``Erikhah
18:31.55``Erikadmin leave
18:31.56``Erikswank
18:32.52``ErikI'm damn glad I didn't attempt to drive in today
18:39.01MaloeranWorking from home?
18:39.55docelicso who is wendy ?
18:46.48MaloeranThe boss of Erik's boss, and the boss of Justin's former boss
18:47.17docelicWere the emails spicy, ``Erik ?
18:47.17docelic:)
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20:17.33``Erikheh, sorry... didnah catch teh k0rekshunz
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20:49.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: fix the variety of ami.tcl and ampi.tcl tclscript warnings/errors
22:04.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (10 files in 3 dirs): remove libtkGLX. it was only being compiled on IRIX, but actually not even being used there.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070215

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070215

03:05.01*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
03:29.17Maloeran204 man-years? Is that serious?
03:30.13MaloeranWith 16 man-years from Lee into BRL-CAD?...
03:34.23Twingy0.7 man years from me, 2.5 if you count adrt/isst
03:52.54brlcadMaloeran: that 204 is just a count of the years involvement -- that's not an estimate of man-years effort
03:53.48brlcadman-years effort is actually considerably more by most of the metric tools
03:54.13brlcadohloh currently has brl-cad at roughly 450 man-years of effort
03:54.35brlcadlee has had commits go into brl-cad for at least 16 unique years
03:55.17brlcadit's actually 19, several of us have duplicate usernames for pre and post open sourcing that only overlap a year
05:31.03brlcadhehe... a ray-tracer written in sed
05:31.04brlcadhttp://funarg.nfshost.com/r2/code/sed/ray/ray.sed
05:31.19brlcadthat's awesome
05:36.36MaloeranThere's so much evil in this world...
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13:12.52archivisthehe that is language abuse
15:19.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (15 files in 4 dirs): initial import
15:29.31Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6364507.stm  -  This is terribly sad
15:30.43MaloeranFrance, Germany and many others knew too well how the invasion would end up, yet some people were clearly delusional
15:41.42``Erikheh
17:41.18*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:41.18*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
17:43.53*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:43.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
18:50.57CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): put the UID as a static for the cpp, not the header ( we only want one )
19:41.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c:
19:41.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: major rewrite, almost from scratch. now supports all of the new options (-b,
19:41.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: -l, -s, -i) and behaves more closely to cmp. supports processing over files
19:41.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: byte-by-byte or pixel-by-pixel, comparing values, tabulating results, and
19:41.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: reporting them in the format requested.
20:10.25``ErikDidn't find trapezoid to close!
20:10.27``Erikblargh
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20:40.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.1: document the new -b option for processing and outputting results as bytes instead of pixels
21:19.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Fix some compilation errors w.r.t. opennurbs library and mixed c/c++ compilation.
21:20.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: reworded.. rewrote pixcmp providing improved I/O format options
21:21.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/wdb.h: Add mk_brep function
21:24.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/m4/compiler.m4: Provide flag support for c++ (i.e. -g)
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21:38.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: implement brep primitive import and export routines. still having problems with opennurbs (can't read 3dmProperties segment), still trying to determine if it's my fault or theirs.
21:39.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: add brep.cpp to source files, opennurbs conditional compilation additions
21:40.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep.cpp: Added
21:42.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: Add brep_cube as program for compilation
21:42.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: Added
21:47.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: initialize counter vars
21:50.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: mention cmp
22:05.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: mention cmp
22:48.05Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6363843.stm - Neat :)
22:56.07MaloeranHow reliable is pthread_kill() to asynchroneously, instantly kill threads? On Linux, threads are processes of their own, so I'm not sure behavior is identical on other platforms
22:56.51MaloeranAh nevermind, there's PTHREAD_CANCEL_ASYNCHRONOUS for pthread_cancel() of course
23:11.17CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (include/TCPConnection.h src/TCPConnection.cpp): screw the pimple, it's a freaking static lib, causes more trouble then it's worth.
23:20.19CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/include/IRCServer.h:
23:20.19CIA-5libIRC: some defaults
23:20.19CIA-5libIRC: remove classes we don't use.
23:20.57CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc7.1/stupidBot.vcproj: get the supids to build and do something
23:21.30CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/stupidServer/ (src/stupidServer.cpp vc7.1/stupidServer.vcproj): get the supids to build and do something
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070216

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070216

01:00.20CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: ws
02:44.30louipchey hey
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03:42.07brlcadhey hey hey
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12:41.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep.cpp: BRL-CAD headers have their extern C already, some system headers don't like in in C++ mode
12:44.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/libwdb.dsp:
12:44.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: add brep.cpp to source files
12:44.16CIA-5BRL-CAD: openNURBS compilation additions
14:54.10``Erik*yawn*
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16:16.55prezkennedyargh too many passwords to remember
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17:06.06prezkennedycrazy folks must actually be working today
17:08.19brlcadcrazy talk
17:08.53prezkennedyi know!
17:09.10prezkennedyyou guys should still be out to lunch for another 2 hours ;-)
17:23.33``Erik<-- at home, has the day off
17:23.42``Erikrdo + holiday, y0, 4 day weekend
17:24.33prezkennedythose are always fun :-)
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20:42.38prezkennedygeez is it time to go yet
22:11.41prezkennedysee y'all later!
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23:27.47bjorkBSDuh oh. where's brlcad?
23:28.52archivisthe hides under a psuedonym
23:33.52bjorkBSDhrmm.
23:34.36archivisttofu
23:48.26bjorkBSDbelize, tofu?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070217

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070217

00:37.27brlcadhello
00:37.49*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
01:44.17Maloeranbrlcad or Erik, do you think there might be any interest in performing raytracing on truly programmable "GPUs"? http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda.html
01:44.40MaloeranFrom what I hear, it can do random memory access and incoherent branching finally, compiling true C code
02:04.09MaloeranThis really looks perfect to perform tasks such as raytracing, an excellent architecture.  It's nothing like our mess of CPUs and their hardware cache synchronisation
02:11.34*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
02:11.58IriX64guys, automake-1.10 broke your autogen.sh.
02:12.44IriX64can i get away with renaming it to -1.9.9?
02:14.46IriX64no i cant
02:15.24brlcadIriX64: what's the error?
02:15.33brlcad./autogen.sh --verbose
02:16.09brlcadMaloeran: haven't we talked about that before already? :)
02:16.29IriX64at least version 1.6.0 is required.
02:16.30brlcadwe've been watching the gpgpu developments for years
02:16.44bjorkBSDbrlcad, are you in belize?
02:16.45brlcadIriX64: hmm, maybe they changed their version string
02:16.49brlcadbjorkBSD: heh, no
02:17.05bjorkBSDthought so.
02:17.07Maloeranbrlcad, they finally reached the point where GPUs can be usable for some real computations
02:17.08brlcadthe server name comes from bz.bzflag.bz .. tld makes for a nice server name
02:17.09IriX64they did it says 1.10
02:17.24brlcadMaloeran: that's been the case for at least two years
02:17.42brlcadthere are still some issues, but it's usable
02:17.59MaloeranRandom memory access with pointers, synchronisation between threads, shared memory, incoherent branching ; this is new
02:18.15brlcadfloating point being one, generality being another, and writing to an interface that is constantly changing fast
02:18.44MaloeranCUDA is pseudo-C and meant to stay, it seems quite nicely designed
02:19.25IriX64_report_error=no for now ;)
02:20.20brlcadyep, cuda is interesting, and has come a ways
02:20.25brlcadinterface is still changing fast
02:20.25bjorkBSDbrlcad, you mentioned the other day that tk wouldn't be used for the next interface, what might it be instead?
02:20.39bjorkBSDyour answer scrolled offscreen when i got back.
02:20.46bjorkBSDscreen/buffer etc
02:20.57Maloeranbrlcad, I think it's a huge leap forward. My nv6xxx and nv7xxx were unusable for tasks such as raytracing ( I tried ), but these programmable arrays of little processors will do nicely
02:20.57brlcadbjorkBSD: not logging? :)
02:21.14bjorkBSDno :D
02:21.19bjorkBSDi've run out of harddisk space :(
02:21.30MaloeranCould there be any interest in developing CUDA raytracing over there?
02:21.34bjorkBSD... i'm trying now to delete some non-essentials i don't wanna get rid of.
02:22.13bjorkBSDsmall harddisk.
02:22.46brlcadMaloeran: again.. this isn't anything new :)  there is/was interest -- just a matter of being interesting *enough* to actually dominate over other tasks and to date that has not been the case for pragmatic reasons
02:23.03brlcadthere is certainly interest though.. that would be sweet to testbed
02:23.10brlcadI'd certainly fund the idea ;)
02:23.17MaloeranI'm certainly very interested to try out
02:23.31brlcadbjorkBSD: hehe
02:23.53brlcadbjorkBSD: hmmm did you build static, or do you just not have much hard drive space?
02:24.21bjorkBSDnot much space to begin with.
02:24.21brlcadcd / && du -k | sort -nr
02:24.37MaloeranAnd the Rayforce API would adopt such a new back-end very nicely, it was meant to do so
02:25.01brlcadbjorkBSD: as to the answer, it's still somewhat undecided though also somewhat non-critical given how the design is layered
02:25.01bjorkBSDand i've been too lazy to go get another drive.
02:25.08bjorkBSDah okay.
02:25.23brlcadopengl driven would be a requirement
02:25.31bjorkBSDdo you think it would still look the same? :D
02:25.37brlcadas well as some form of framebuffer support
02:25.41brlcadbjorkBSD: not in the least
02:25.57MaloeranIt's usable outside OpenGL and other APIs. You can use the library directly to offload computations on the GPU
02:26.13brlcadsome of the same capabilities, taking some of the best features, but none of the existing gui code in mged would be used
02:26.15MaloeranThough it can of course be used along with OpenGL
02:26.52brlcadMaloeran: my opengl comment wasn't towards you :)
02:27.01brlcadtowards new modeling interface
02:27.42brlcadi agree that leveraging the gpu behind a C api would be sweet
02:28.10brlcadwhat that api is, looks like, and how functional it is from a practical standpoint becomes important
02:28.13MaloeranAnd CODA uses C code directly, with several extensions to the language, such as vector data types
02:28.30MaloeranIt looks very much usable to me, from all points of view
02:29.48brlcadfrom all points of a view is a rather bold statement..
02:29.48MaloeranI dreamed of raytracing hardware as I was frustrated of the horrible architecture of processors, memory and cache.  These GPUs actually have an elegant architecture, highly efficient, very flexible
02:31.26bjorkBSDhmmm Maloeran you just might re-invent the ancient SGI machines ;)
02:31.27brlcadelegant and efficient for certain purposes, not for all purposes in the least
02:31.27brlcadit's a great approach for some tasks, but there's no sense in overhyping it beyond what it actually is :)
02:31.45Maloeran:) Fine fine, forgive me if I'm a bit excited by these new chips :)
02:32.01brlcada little transparent ;)
02:33.11brlcadas far as I recall, cuda still didn't directly support (i.e. hardware-accelerate) double precision yet did it?
02:33.36MaloeranWell no, it doesn't
02:33.42brlcadk
02:33.59brlcadwhat about framebuffer locking?
02:34.26MaloeranWhat do you mean by framebuffer locking exactly?
02:35.14brlcad(so you can cluster-compute with gpu cards) .. their high-end cards support this, but to date none of the others did
02:35.21brlcadbasically, the ability to lock and share portions of the framebuffer memory
02:35.36brlcadakin to acquiring a semaphore lock on portions of memory between video cards
02:35.49Maloeranbrlcad, CUDA runs code like an array of processors. You can store the results back straight into system memory, without any "framebuffer"
02:36.50brlcadof course, but you're talking about one card -- that's not what I"m referring to
02:37.40brlcadyou can actually gang together video cards across a cluster, for example, and get them inter-processing similar to cluster cpus
02:37.52brlcadactually talking to or at least collaborating between each other
02:38.07brlcadto date only a few cards have allowed this, rather high-end
02:38.15MaloeranHum. Well, the cluster CPUs manage the operations of the GPUs, so I don't see that as a problem
02:38.44brlcadheh, that's a different approach and kills the benefit I would have retained
02:40.09MaloeranI haven't read anything about synchronisation of multiple GPUs. As far as I can tell, their operation is entirely managed by the processors
02:40.57brlcadit's the same technology that allows you to drive massive displays (like 40000x40000 pixel displays)
02:42.03brlcad(with one cpu)
02:42.03MaloeranRight, I see
02:42.03brlcadyou can of course approach the problem in other ways
02:42.04brlcadbut most of them suck ass
02:42.04brlcad(in comparison to having framelock)
02:44.07brlcadit's one of the details that separates the quaddro fxers from the geforce line
02:44.07brlcadand I forget the ati equivalent
03:03.53IriX64may i give u a pastebin url?
03:04.30IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/359867
03:04.40IriX64hat happens with automake 1.10
03:04.59IriX64+w :)
03:06.12IriX64ill be back when i have a fix  (cripes Irix just drop back a couple of revs :))
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03:31.37brlcadIriX64: interesting
04:56.25brlcadIriX64: is that with CVS or a source tarball?
04:56.29brlcadmore importantly.. if that is a source tarball, can you retry with the latest cvs?  there have been several changes with respect to adrt (which is what it is error'ing on)
04:56.30IriX64source tarball
04:56.31IriX64dont have cvs
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04:56.36IriX64tried to paste something to pastebin.ca, keeps going away before i can cut the url, sorry but it was the output of aclocal and automake.
04:56.38dtidrowbrlcad: the ATI FireGL line is roughly equivalent to the nVidia Quadro line
06:17.28MaloeranATI's Linux drivers have always been atrociously bad in my experience, especially the amd64 ones. I can't imagine anyone using them for serious software
06:17.33dtidrowwell, there is that
06:17.33dtidrowthough supposedly they have gotten better, I still much prefer nVidia
06:17.33dtidrowhopefully AMD will bash some sense into them  :-)
06:17.33dtidrowin my experience, the nVidia Linux drivers 'just work'
06:17.39brlcaddtidrow: true, but last time I check (2 years ago?) the firegl line was still missing frame locking, or there was some issue with it
06:18.42brlcadMaloeran: ati's drivers generally do suck in comparison, though the quadro and firegl drvier line aren't the same caliber as the consumer grade ones
08:05.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
08:05.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: AM_PROG_CC_STD was deprecated and later made obsolete by automake 1.8 with the
08:05.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: functionality merged into AC_PROG_CC. the macro attempted to ensure that the
08:05.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: compiler is running in 'ansi mode'. add AM_PROG_CC_C_O to handle compilation of
08:05.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: non-libtool stuff with compilers that don't happen to support the common -c -o
08:05.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: syntax. latest automake seems to be complaining about the option being
08:05.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: missing/needed (reported by IriX64) during autogen.sh.
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21:34.37*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD CSG Modelling... http://www.brlcad.org http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad
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22:12.36cad88hello I have problem with mged and rt  ( 7.8.4 ), mged tries to lunch /usr/bin/rt instead of /usr/brlcad/bin/rt
22:12.58cad88is there any config to change path?
22:13.59cad88during configure --prefix was not changed
22:15.09IriX64last line of make install output: be sure to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your *path*
22:16.03cad88I did it
22:16.15IriX64did ir right?
22:16.20IriX64it even.
22:16.21cad88100%
22:16.35IriX64try it from the bin dir then.
22:16.43cad88The probelm is that mget tries to run rt with absolute path
22:16.46IriX64ie cd /usr/brlcad/bin
22:17.02cad88rt works perfectly rom tty but not from mged
22:17.15IriX64just a sec.
22:17.57IriX64works properly here
22:18.06IriX64gotta be your setup
22:18.31IriX64rt: a database is not open.
22:19.10IriX64want me to pastebin it?
22:19.41cad88when I do rt in mged i got: /usr/bin/rt no such file or dir
22:19.48cad88yes please
22:19.59IriX64just a sec
22:22.33IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/361083
22:24.54cad88no you have miss understand me.... I mean that mged ties to run rt with absolute path ... /usr/bin/rt ant it should run it with /usr/bin/brlcad/bin/rt
22:25.14cad88mged just cant find binary of rt
22:25.20IriX64if it was trying that i would not have got the result i did .
22:25.41cad88if I link ls -s /usr/brldcad/bin/rt to /usr/bin/rt all works
22:26.12IriX64symlink? its not necessary, you've got issues on your system.
22:26.44cad88I'm running gentoo , self comiled ant it is nto system paths problem
22:27.20IriX64pastebin too.
22:27.25cad88what version of brlcad You are running?
22:27.30IriX647.8.4
22:27.51cad88ok thanks anyway ...
22:44.54CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/ (15 files in 5 dirs): remove the dependency on our own SDLNet, move the subset of what we needed into net.h and net.cpp, so there isn't any confilcts with apps that want to use SDLNet for other stuff.
23:02.42CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/net.cpp: add in the actual net implementation
23:03.02CIA-5libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/include/net.h: remove the old pre OSX open transport code.
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070218

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070218

00:38.41*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
00:39.04IriX64that datarootdir thing this fixed it for me.
00:39.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/361223
00:52.58brlcadthere's already a fix in for that that doesn't outright override the datadir
00:53.22IriX64hah new way to distribute binaries, compile with --prefix=/usr/local/whatever, make install and tar up /usr/local/whatever and tell em to unpack accordingly :)
00:53.34IriX64where can i get this fix?
00:54.42brlcadcvs
00:54.49IriX64ty
00:55.39IriX64at the moment tho, my forge is melting bits :)
01:00.01IriX64mine won't hurt anything tho will it?
01:00.59IriX64not that ill distribute it or anything but i fear shooting myself in the foot here.
01:02.24IriX64i figure as long as im on *this setup it should work forever :)
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07:20.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
07:20.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: collapse the version checks into one routine. improve the version checks so
07:20.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: that they work more reliably for various version string formats. this
07:20.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: refactoring should fix a bug in the script where automake 1.10 was being
07:20.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: incorrectly processed as 1.1.0 among other benefits and code simplification.
07:27.56CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: simplify some more, make sed a requirement and abort if it seems to be unavailable
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19:04.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: add an initial interface file for libsysv. this compatibility interface shouldn't really be included throughout the package, but may ultimatley get added to common.h as part of configuration compatibility.
19:04.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add the new sysv.h header to the noinst header list.
19:06.02CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (bsdselect.c strdup.c): deknrify the function
19:06.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strsep.c: ws
19:12.18CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (bsdselect.c strchr.c strdup.c strtok.c): ws
19:13.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: initial addition of basename() so we don't need to test for its availability
19:14.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: add the new basename.c file, extracted from openbsd (bsd licensed)
19:14.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h: add basename()
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19:58.28IriX64cygwin+brlcad=windows cad system :)
20:04.11IriX64tried to fix autogen.sh myself, mucked it up completly, started reporting version 0.0 of the tools.
20:04.25louipcwhoah
20:04.43IriX64thank God for backups. :)
20:04.45louipcyeah I just noticed that it detected automake incorectly
20:05.01IriX641.1.0?
20:05.02louipcit thinks v 1.10 is 1.1.0
20:05.07IriX64ditto
20:05.21IriX64good job.
20:05.36louipcnice
20:06.25brlcadwould one of you test and make sure it works: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh
20:07.56MaloeranGrr.  "cvs [commit aborted]: there is no version here; do `cvs checkout' first"
20:08.08MaloeranAnd a  cvs checkout  of course doesn't solve anything
20:08.17louipcbrlcad: looks good so far
20:08.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: progname is often not the same as argv[0], so modify bu_getprogname() accordingly and expose the bu_argv0() function to distinguish between the two.
20:09.19MaloeranDo you have 30 seconds to help with that cvs message, brlcad?
20:09.31MaloeranI sure often get obscure cvs errors when I move files around between desktop and latop
20:10.11brlcadhm
20:10.46brlcadthey both the same OS and version of CVS?
20:11.02MaloeranSame OS, 32 and 64 bits though, perhaps not quite the same version of CVS
20:11.23brlcadsounds like you're commiting from a dir outside the cvs tree
20:11.38brlcadyou only do a checkout once
20:11.47MaloeranI'm right in ~/rayforce
20:11.57brlcadand there's a ~/rayforce/CVS dir?
20:12.08MaloeranYes
20:12.21brlcadcat ~/rayforce/CVS/Root
20:12.34MaloeranLooks fine
20:12.55brlcadcan you pm it to me
20:13.02brlcadas well as CVS/Repository
20:13.41MaloeranI think it's throwing the error because of the other/ directory actually, there's no ./CVS there
20:14.08brlcadcould be
20:14.32brlcadall of the D entries in ~/rayforce/CVS/Entries will get traversed
20:14.56brlcadyou can avoid the problem by commiting files individually of course, or fix your Entries file
20:15.08Maloeran./other is listed
20:15.15brlcadahh
20:15.18brlcadthen that's why
20:15.35brlcadyou probably copied the file over from some other place that didn't have a CVS into a current checkout
20:16.00MaloeranRight, I think I'll manage to fix it from there. Thanks
20:16.05brlcads/probably/almost guaranteed
20:16.29brlcadyou should be able to mv other and cvs update -dP
20:16.39MaloeranThere we go, it works. Thanks
20:17.04brlcadyou should update -dP just to make sure you didn't hide the problem for down the road ;)
20:17.17``Erik<-- points out that it's WAY easier to leave a checkout in place, have seperate checkouts on the lappie and workstation, and when you want to move between the two, make sure you're all committed up and just update on the other...
20:17.43brlcadyep
20:17.53brlcadfrequent commits and all that jazz
20:18.32``Erikto usurp the meme, commit early, commit often
20:21.10``Erikthe Entries file will hold what your side thinks is in the repo... you can always co to a new place to verify it
20:23.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: basename() is guaranteed by libsysv now, so no need to check for HAVE_BASENAME
20:24.35CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/str_manip.c: remove the unnecessary definition of basename() .. libsysv provides a better version if it truely is not provided by the system.
20:27.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/.cvsignore: ignore more ac_config_subdir/configure crap dumped in here
20:28.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore newly added brep_cube if it exists
20:29.16IriX64ok, I'm beat how do i get that autogen.sh?
20:29.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: sort lines, vars first
20:30.02brlcadIriX64: er, with any browser?
20:30.16IriX64can't open page.
20:30.25brlcadthen you probably copied the url wrong
20:30.34IriX64cut and paste brlcad.
20:30.45IriX64will try again.
20:30.48brlcadthen you probably cut and paste wrong :)
20:31.13brlcadelse, just type it in: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh
20:31.39brlcadit might even just download immediately
20:32.44IriX64not letting me in and its exactly what you just typed.
20:33.17IriX64http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/autogen.sh
20:33.24IriX64right?
20:33.38brlcadIriX64: that looks right
20:33.39IriX64im using ie.
20:33.58``Erik<-- can't try ie, is totally windows free here at home
20:34.16IriX64heh a dream come true eh?
20:34.38IriX64maybe i should install firefox.
20:34.48brlcadIriX64: then go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad -> click on Code -> click on Browse CVS -> click on brlcad -> scroll down to autogen.sh and click on the name -> click on "download"
20:35.18brlcadi suspect it's just downloading it already to your desktop or something
20:36.53brlcadyep, I just tried it in IE
20:37.10brlcadit shows a "cannot display this page" and downloads the file
20:37.20MaloeranNeat..
20:37.44brlcadwhich for me also includes a dialog prompt of where to save the file , but I suspect you turned that off at some point
20:38.01brlcadof you've got a bunch of dialogs underneath or something
20:38.08IriX64anim, awf but no autogen.sh
20:38.35IriX64downloads it to where?
20:38.59brlcadyou're asking me?
20:39.01IriX64thanks tho lets not get caught up in it.
20:39.07brlcadit's your machine, your set up ;)
20:39.20IriX64she built with automake 1.9.6 im happy.
20:39.24brlcadautogen.sh is at the very bottom
20:40.45brlcadno matter, it worked for louipc yes?
20:41.07IriX64thanks give me ten i gotta install automake 1-10 again takes me a few minutes.
20:43.17IriX64bing bang you're a winner, my thanks.
20:43.43IriX64cept libtool is coming up 1.5.23a is that proper?
20:44.29louipcbrlcad: yep
20:44.37IriX64thanks then.
20:44.56IriX64lets see if it actually builds with those makefiles.
20:46.16louipcIt is a weird URL with the asterisks
20:51.58*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.80)
20:52.19brlcadasterisks are valid
20:52.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: footer and ws
20:52.36brlcadIriX64: what does glibtoolize --version report?
20:53.15IriX641.5.23a
20:53.41IriX64so you're right its proper.
20:54.27IriX64configuring it now.
20:54.32brlcadeven better, it correctly compares now even though there's an alpha in there
20:54.39IriX64yeah
20:54.46IriX64good work.
20:54.55louipcbrlcad: you really spiffied up that script
21:00.01MaloeranGez, 20 minutes to do a cvs commit of 50mb from a 10mbits line
21:01.08``Erik50mb? O.o
21:01.12``Erikwhat is it?
21:01.45IriX64the whole freaking project (ducking and running)
21:01.46MaloeranAll code! :) No, just a now decent geometry group file format
21:01.56MaloeranAnd +8202-3147 lines of code
21:02.38``Erikit's an ascii format?
21:02.52MaloeranNo, the roter-lowe galleon model is heavy
21:03.23``Erikif it's not ascii, you should've done cvs add -kb <file> so it doesn't attempt to search it for tags
21:03.29``Erikand try to do diffs on it
21:03.30``Erikheh
21:03.37MaloeranOh! So that's what it was doing
21:04.19MaloeranAnd you are right, all the model files weren't uploaded as binary
21:04.44``Erikplus changing every 0x0d to 0x0d0a
21:05.05``Erikor trying to see if it needs to change 0x0d0a to 0x0d, or something
21:05.10``Eriknewline fixing
21:05.13MaloeranThat will only happen if someone checkouts from a windows box
21:05.45``Erikwindows/dos will use 0x0d0a, *nix and osX will use 0x0d, and os[1-9] will use 0x0r
21:06.01``ErikI don't recall what things like beos will do
21:07.26``Erik(the history of all that predates unix, actually, and unix was deviant in faking the operations... newline and carrier feed map directly to old tty operations, just like old typewriters themselves)
21:09.03Maloeran:) I always found awkward the whole concept of "text mode" files, creates more problems than it solves
21:10.41``Erikplenty of C functions to nice things up for you
21:18.42brlcadjeez.. a 12000 line commit differential.. if that's your idea of frequent small commits ..
21:19.12brlcadif there was a bug in there, you'd never find it via cvs history that's almost for certain
21:28.04MaloeranIndeed brlcad, but I'm quite alone on this anyway, and a CVS history is of no help for one's own code
21:28.30brlcadof no help for one's own code???
21:28.49brlcadthat's probably the dumbest thing I've heard you say in a long time :)
21:28.51MaloeranYou wrote the code, you know it better than any history :)
21:29.08*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
21:29.31brlcadmaybe you do today, what about in two weeks, or in two months or two years later.. when that bug is finally exposed
21:29.50``Erikif you're working on tiny toy projects, sure... :D I hope most things I do are nontrivial and I forget minor details that machines find so important
21:30.28brlcadthere is almost zero tracability on large commits, if the code is going to be more than a pet project .. that matters
21:31.08IriX64_nmg-bot.exe, so far automake behaved :)
21:31.31brlcadI've frequently review cvs logs to see stuff that I did years ago, if anything it shows you the motivation for why something was changed, and if there's detail it can include references and other leads when there's a problem
21:31.34``ErikI know with my personal projects, I rely heavily on tagging and good comments in the cvs history for preparing changelogs and making release statements
21:31.39MaloeranRight, years later, one might not even recognize the code as his own. If I knew a few extra CVS commands, I think I would recognize the value of a proper history
21:32.02``Erik"log" "status" and "ann" are three I like
21:32.06``Erikann being annotate
21:32.17brlcador just use annotate and you don't have to explain it :P
21:32.36Maloeran*nods* Three commands I have never learned or used
21:32.46``Erikwell, I'm thinking with my fingers, not my brain... :D I'd say 'co' instead of 'checkout'
21:32.51brlcadbecause all your code is "still in context"
21:33.07``Erikhehehe
21:33.10brlcadjust wait until you eventually do have a context switch and have to figure it all out again
21:33.32MaloeranI know that, brlcad. I really need to learn these commands to see the value of a good history
21:33.36brlcadthat's where code size and maintenance adds up exponentially
21:33.36``Erikmal, pick something funky in brlcad and muck around with those three commands for a bit...
21:34.02``Erikthen think about poor little me, trying to understand rayforce when all I see is "+5123 -128 Stuff."
21:34.26MaloeranAhah @ Stuff :)
21:36.14``Erikerik@vidar ~/devel$ cvs log 2>/dev/null | grep -i stuff | wc -l
21:36.14``Erik<PROTECTED>
21:37.44``Erikvery little code is ever complete... no code is ever adequately tested... and no code is ever bug-free :D
21:38.01brlcadunless your code is but a handful of lines, there will almost *always* undoutedly be bugs no matter how much you test and feel comfortable with it
21:38.20``Erikfor initial development, being able to compile is a good tough goal for nightly cvs state
21:38.21IriX64autogen.sh says you're a liar, so does 10 goto 10 ;)
21:38.51brlcadbeing able to compile after every cvs commit, regardless of testing and functionality is generally a good goal
21:39.04brlcadif you can get that much working right, you'll be better off than 90% of projects
21:39.27brlcadwhat bugs?
21:39.39``Erik(also; testing fresh checkouts every once in a while is good practice)
21:39.50Maloeran*nods* All right, so noted, I'll do so.  Basically, before now, I was only commiting when there was something new to show
21:39.53``Erikthat "sh autogen.sh" not matching that you fixed back then
21:40.35IriX64speak too.
21:40.35``ErikI hope autogen.sh is posix sh, not bash...
21:40.54IriX64posix is just a name like bash.
21:40.58``Erikcuz, uh, I use it with non-bash shells :) a modified bsh, ksh, zsh, ...
21:41.06``Erikbash is a piece of software, posix is a set of standards...
21:41.08IriX64cmon
21:41.38IriX64cmd.exe is not posix but can be made to run autogen.sh
21:41.39brlcadah, yes.. that was working, then broken then working re sh
21:41.52brlcadit wasn't a posix vs bash thing, just a basename/lookup issue
21:42.31``Erik<-- tries to make his work with a strict posix sh for portability
21:42.44IriX64sometimes it pays to learn the scripting languages, but there are so bloody many of them.
21:42.58brlcadcan't imagine what it's break on even with strict posix at the moment
21:43.05brlcadi'd be interested in seeing a report if it fails
21:43.17IriX64passed here
21:43.20brlcadonly thing maybe might be some [] operations
21:43.34brlcaddon't remember if posix allows -ne and -eq
21:44.30``Eriksince it's using /bin/sh, it'll be pretty damn close if not strictly posix on bsd, solaris, I THINK irix, ... only linux assumes /bin/sh is bash, iirc
21:45.39IriX64``erik bat file script i know, might take me a while but i could code an equivelent.
21:46.38IriX64``E too, sorry :)
21:46.38``Erikequivelant to what?
21:46.51IriX64to autogen but *you have to write the tools that it uses ok? ;)
21:48.03IriX64bwthresh.exe sweet.
21:48.04``Erikuh... if you're gonna use it on windows, you might as well install cygwin and have a working sh?
21:48.16IriX64uhhh ;)
21:48.24``Erikor use the msvc files and ignore the auto* stuff...
21:48.47IriX64msvc is pricey.
21:51.06``Erikdidn't ms release a free version? lacking the fancy ide, I think, but should be able to build using the project build files, no?
21:51.30IriX64unknown to me ``Erik.
21:52.53``Erikhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/download/default.aspx
21:57.49IriX64http://pastebin.com/883914
21:59.05``Erikhm, I've seen similar screens before :D
21:59.39``Erikof course, if I see that one, I say "oh, huh, I didn't break it" and try harder...
22:00.16brlcadheh
22:06.28IriX64i think automake-1.10 works brlcad.
22:06.59IriX64gonna install and runtest it.
22:08.27IriX64whoa---/usr/cygcad/include/brlcad ... no such file or directory, what gives here?
22:12.44IriX64http://pastebin.com/883927
22:18.25IriX64it looks like its not making the dir but i don't understand all this stuff in makefile, sorry :( but i can tell you this, with automake1.9.6 it works.
22:44.40IriX64just rgressed to 1.9.6 and make install works again.
22:45.30brlcadIriX64: hard to say what the cause is, but on the surface it looks like an automake bug
22:46.10IriX64too bad i don't speak perl, id try to help, but i leave that to those who are fluent.
22:47.22IriX64``Erik did I try hard enough? :)
22:47.59IriX64btw is it safe to reconfigure and just do a make install thats how im trying this thing out.
22:49.21brlcaddepends on what you're trying to do
22:49.41brlcadin general if you need to reconfigure, you probably should recompile
22:49.48brlcadbut that's not always the case
22:50.52IriX64same configure options, codes already compiled, should be able to get away with it no?
22:51.46brlcadthen why are you rerunning configure?
22:52.15IriX64did an autogen, wanted my makefiles fixed after i regressed to 1.9.6 of automake.
22:52.33brlcadfor that, yeah, should be fine
22:52.36IriX64ty
23:26.07IriX64havoc renders, i'm all happy again :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070219

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070219

00:24.01louipchm build failed
01:08.46Maloeranbrlcad might be at least a half-god of the software, but I still suspect he'll need more information
01:14.05``Erikmal, just for you... http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/02/pcmaclinux-thumb.jpg
01:16.56MaloeranEheh, I saw it already, quite nice
03:08.47*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
03:49.57MaloeranLinux threads really execute in very constant, predictable patterns
03:50.20MaloeranIt's good for the cache of processors, but I wish I could easily insert some randomness to test things out
03:53.24louipcaarg  I don't think I'm getting the latest versions of everything
03:59.07brlcadlouipc: que?
04:00.06louipcI think it has something to do with the way cvs packages are prepared on my distro
04:00.30louipcbecause doing it manually works
04:37.33louipcyep
05:25.47IriX64nytol :)
06:03.41MaloeranOuch. Looks like a nice theater
08:23.16*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:23.59*** join/#brlcad cad10 (n=c636cad2@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:29.00louipcyar I got that same make install error as IriX64. making the directory just makes it give Error 126 instead
15:38.49brlcadthe farther ports gets from 5.4, the more fault-prone it seems to get
15:39.56brlcadI usually run: cvsup -g -L2 /etc/su
15:40.03brlcad/etc/supfile
15:41.18brlcadalong with, portsdb -Uu, pkgdb -F, portupgrade -arR -l logfile
15:43.28brlcadcurious to know if the scan comes up with anything
15:46.17``Erik<-- not upgrading anything, but installed a couple things
15:46.44``Erikeverything php5 has buffer overflow vulnerabilities it'd seem
15:46.58``ErikI threw on 'portsnap' and 'portaudit'
15:47.27``Erikand ports are supposed to work fine on RELENG_5, which is now 5.5... you're running 5.2.1 :)
15:47.41brlcadyep
15:47.55``Eriksingle proc machine?
15:48.13``Erik<-- keeps thinking it's a dual for some reason
15:48.26brlcadi was inclined to upgrade the kernel, but frankly it freaks me a bit to mess with a stable config
15:48.29brlcadit's a single
15:48.38brlcadduals are way too overpriced
15:49.04brlcadheck even their singles are overpriced now or I would have just bought new hardware and migrated
15:50.04``Erikyou're leasing their hw, right? would it be easier to put together a machien and coloc it?
15:50.34brlcadyep, and not really
15:50.49brlcadthe hardware lease is one of the cheapest parts
15:51.11brlcadbandwidth is the killer, and I got a sweet deal
15:54.17brlcadkerash
15:59.05``Erikheh, yeah
15:59.14``Erikthere was some initialization command that I forgot or something
15:59.24``Erikand it's seeing damaged ports before it gets there
16:02.27brlcadhttp://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad
16:02.59brlcadfun with stats, they hooked us up
16:03.06brlcadhttp://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad
16:05.08``ErikI'll assume one of those big jumps in the line count graph was tcl/tk ?
16:05.26``Eriknot sure what the other was
16:11.23brlcadno, tcl doesn't cause that much
16:12.02brlcadi'm asking them what the second spike is.. we're not at 4.5 million lines
16:12.39brlcadthe first is the open sourcing, licenses, headers, footers, ws, reorg
16:13.29brlcadthought it might have been some branch activity, but they show that on HEAD too
16:13.49``Erikhrmmm
16:13.54``ErikI wonder if they count the attic
16:14.15``Erikmv lib* src/ could account for that, if they do?
16:16.10brlcadi doubt it, otherwise it would have been much more than double
16:17.28brlcadi vaguely recall accounting for a second spike in the statcvs report, maybe a ws thing, but then their report should account for that as it looks like its supposed to be tracking + and - lines
16:19.01brlcad./topic BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
16:19.05*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
16:19.19brlcadchmod 775 topic
16:19.25louipcwoohoo
16:25.18brlcad``Erik: ew, that didn't exist for a reason :P  (but I don't really care either)
16:26.16``Erikwhat didn't? the pkg shtuff?
16:26.23``Erikor /usr/tmp ?
16:26.34brlcadtmp
16:26.42``ErikI'll remove it when I'm done *shrug*
16:26.45louipcit looks like MKDIR_P has no value in the Makefile which is causing the make install error
16:29.09brlcad``Erik: as I said, i don't really care .. it's just been entertaining/informative to see what tools presumed it existed
16:29.23``Erikhehe
16:29.42``Erikyou'd be amazed what goes crazy if you have /usr/Xorg instead of /usr/X11R6 ;)
16:29.51brlcadheh
16:30.18brlcadlouipc: hm.. that's odd -- we even provide mkdirp.m4 just in case
16:31.02``Eriklouipc: is that straight out of a distributed tarball? or are you running aclocal and automake? or autogen.sh?
16:31.27louipcthat's from CVS & autogen.sh
16:31.44brlcadmy guess is your version of automake is doing something .. different
16:31.54brlcadwhat are your versions?
16:32.05brlcad./autogen.sh --version
16:33.01louipcAutoconf 2.61, automake 1.10, libtool 1.5.22
16:34.20brlcadit could be a case sensitivity thing.. automake used to use mkdir_p not MKDIR_P in the Makefiles
16:34.46brlcadlouipc: try this, mv m4/mkdirp.m4 misc/
16:34.48louipcoi
16:34.59brlcadthen redo autogen.sh, configure, make, etc
16:35.23louipcok
16:38.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: automake 1.10+ seems to use uppercase instead, subst both upper and lower
16:48.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
16:50.27``Erikuhhh, how do you mean?
16:50.50IriX64that configure.ac on cvs is *not the full blown one.
16:52.16``Erikhow is it not? what's missing?
16:52.45IriX64let me look again, i downloaded and got 485 bytes.
16:54.24IriX64slap me with a trout.
16:55.20``ErikI'm sorry, but I don't like you in that tway
16:55.30``Eriks/ t/ /
16:55.41louipcI only have halibut
16:55.59IriX64heh
16:56.25IriX64man replace 105kb with 450kb (whatd you do?)
16:56.26brlcadwhen you run autogen.sh, it generates configure from configure.ac
16:56.36IriX64i know that.
16:56.51brlcadnoir:~ morrison$ wc brlcad/configure.ac 3954   12243  123166 brlcad/configure.ac
16:57.00brlcadit should be about 4000 lines
16:59.58IriX64http://pastebin.com/884544
17:00.34IriX64thats from browse cvs man.
17:02.07brlcadyou saved the web page
17:02.25IriX64man i clecked on configure.ac
17:02.27brlcadpresumably you pulled that from the cvs web interface
17:02.38IriX64ie again?
17:02.44brlcadnope, your error ;)
17:02.58IriX64heh all right, ill keep trying.
17:03.06brlcadif you right-click the download link, it'd work
17:03.07louipcclicking the file will give you a changelog or something
17:03.09brlcadbut only that link
17:03.24brlcadi.e. it actually says (download)
17:03.37IriX64as i said slap me with a halibut. :)
17:03.40brlcadnot that it matters
17:03.46``Erikirix, have you looked at http://www.wincvs.org/
17:03.47brlcadthat file is not going to work by itself
17:04.14brlcadyou can't just take configure.ac and expect/hope it'll work -- it's tied to changes throughout the source tree
17:04.37brlcadautogen.sh is stand-alone which is why that one can be updated by itself
17:05.16brlcadi can pretty much guarantee that using a configure.ac from CVS head will fail on a 7.8 source tree
17:05.27IriX64ty
17:05.44IriX64but still i click download and it views the bloody thing.
17:05.56brlcadright-click, save as?
17:06.04IriX64saves as html.
17:06.26brlcadnot if you right click the (download) link
17:06.53brlcadif you just hit save on the menu, sure, or right-click one of the other non-download links, perhaps
17:06.56IriX64ty learned something.
17:08.02IriX64saves as configure.ac.txt
17:08.59IriX64my fault the old one was there to system renamed it automagically :)
17:09.05brlcadthat's IE for you
17:09.11IriX64heh
17:09.14brlcadreally should just use 'cvs'
17:09.29brlcadeither wincvs or cvs in cygwin
17:10.29MaloeranIriX64, you should consider installing Firefox
17:10.40brlcador tortoise cvs, another free windows gui cvs
17:10.48louipcor linux :P
17:10.50MaloeranOr just Linux, that'll solve many other problems too
17:10.53IriX64had it before the great crash of 2006
17:10.59``Erikor freebsd, to solve the problems linux creates
17:11.05``Erikor openbsd, or ... :D
17:11.05louipchahaha
17:11.14IriX64or bsd to solve those ones erik :P
17:11.37``Erikheh
17:11.40``Erikon a vax?
17:11.44``Erikor a pdp? :D
17:11.49IriX64actually vms blows them all away.
17:12.01brlcador just buy a Mac when you get tired of configuring and/or fighting your OS? :)
17:12.19IriX64its the apps, the os is fine :)
17:12.31``Erikexcept after configuring/fighting osX to get macports all groovy and applisms extracted, ... *cough* :D
17:13.50IriX645'll get you ten i get this to work :P
17:14.00brlcadso.. if you import the configuration environments from other systems.. you end up needing to configure/fight.. who would have thought!
17:14.28IriX64cooperative operating systems what a thought :)
17:14.35``Erikhehehe, but it's supposed to be unix! it's mostly fbsd under the hood! :D
17:14.40IriX64the unios.
17:14.59``Erika twisted mutated derivative of fbsd4 with other stuff hammered on in different places, but ...
17:15.08brlcadyes, but it's a sheep, shaven clean, wearing a leather jacket
17:15.30IriX64that cow is pisses :P
17:15.36IriX64pissed too.
17:18.43IriX64he found him in mombassa, in a bar room drinking Gin,...
17:23.36IriX64just what is this AM_PATH_SDL not found in library anyway.
17:24.40``Erikyou need libsdl installed (with it's m4 fu) to run autogen
17:24.46``Erikit's used in adrt
17:25.07IriX64thats not in the source tarball?
17:25.31``Erikhm, looks like there's a copy in m4/, n/m :)
17:27.53IriX64http://pastebin.com/884559
17:28.18IriX64result of aclocal followed by automake autogen has already run.
17:28.29``Erikaclocal needs to have -I m4
17:28.33``Erikautogen.sh does that for you
17:28.47IriX64thank ill try it.
17:29.11IriX64ill autogen verbose if you like and pastebin the output.
17:29.25louipcneato
17:38.52IriX64autoconf -f takes a while.
17:42.28IriX64brb
17:43.28*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
18:06.48IriX64sigh.... i like a slow hand :)
18:07.57IriX64honest officer, the last thing on my console is autoconf -f
18:09.54IriX64finally, running automake.
18:10.33IriX64please don't tell me you want me to repeat this with 1.10 :)
18:12.29brlcadheh, wow
18:12.57brlcadkillall with no args on irix is apparently equivalent to shutdown
18:13.50IriX64just picked this name to be kewl ;)
18:14.26brlcad``Erik: i think i took down cad if you happen to be going by there..
18:15.13brlcadit was failing on mounts to a particular bsd system
18:17.58``Eriknot today
18:18.14IriX64missed that autoheader ran without even a warning.
18:18.16``Erikit's a holiday, yo
18:18.41IriX64same for autoconf.
18:19.39``Erikheh, anyone with leenewx x86 asm fu wanna help me figure somethin' out? :D
18:21.06IriX64x86? blame it on 18.2 ticks per second ``Erik ;)
18:21.19``Erikheh
18:21.33brlcad``Erik: it is?
18:21.51``ErikI got a brainfuck compiler that outputs x86 assembly in both unix and dos/linux calling conventions...
18:22.11IriX64heh
18:22.12``Erikworks dandy with the unix calling convention (fbsd), and the simpler test programs work fine on linux
18:22.20``Erikbut I have a more complicated one that fails on linux
18:22.31brlcadholy cow, it is!
18:22.45``Erikit should almost immediately start printing output, but it immediately says "killed"
18:22.55``Erikand even with -gstabs to as, I can't get a debugger to do anything with it
18:23.28brlcadi was getting dressed even
18:23.46``Erik<-- remembered halfway to the office, turned around in a church parking lot and left some rbber on the road
18:23.54``Erikat ferakin' seven something this morning
18:24.00brlcadhah
18:24.02brlcadsucker
18:24.31brlcadi mean, er, nice catch there right-o lad
18:24.34``Erikand as I was driving, I was bitching at myself for not doing anything productive yesterday (thinking monday)...
18:25.07``Erik4 day weekend, w00
18:27.44brlcadnot having to decide between heroes and work, w00
18:29.29brlcadi think ive asked you before, but what actually generates the assembler in you compiler?  is it outputting binary in scheme or C or something else?
18:29.55``Erikit's a C program, reads a bf file and outputs x86 asm
18:30.27``Erik./bf2as hi.bf > hi.s && as -o hi.o hi.s && ld -o hi hi.o && ./hi
18:30.45brlcadive toyed with writing a shell script compiler several times
18:31.00brlcadah, so you still call as
18:31.22``Erikyeah, I have a shell to generate straight machien code, but I haven't started filling it in
18:31.54``Erikand I have an interpreter that generates bytecode and executes it, as well as a version that outputs ansi C code
18:34.16``Erik(the mandelbrot program takes about 50 seconds in the interpreter, 12 seconds as C compiled with -O0, 6 seconds as asm, and 3.5 seconds as C gcc -O1... a hair more with O2 or O3)
18:52.33IriX64guys, my beautiful packard bell 3070a 17" monitor kaffed last night, lost the pincushion, whats retail for a good 17 inch in your country, i'm debating going new instead of taking it to joes tv repair shop.
19:02.12``Erikhttp://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=17+monitor&hl=en&btnG=Search
19:02.20IriX64``Erik, interesting project, I went the other way, take binary and decode it to pal neumonics, relativizing the addresses and index cells and all that, 72 opcodes to work with, but you can take a crash dump, run it thru this thing and invalid opcodes stick out like a sore thumb.
19:05.19IriX64http://pastebin.com/884630
19:05.32IriX64if you want a little look at how i did it.
19:05.51IriX64btw automake is still running :)
19:06.01IriX64no warnings yet.
19:06.48``Erikto do what now? O.o
19:07.02IriX64wait on automake ;)
19:08.47IriX64the idea is to take it and build a crash dump analyzer, problem is you must have something to produce the crash dump to be read.
19:09.16IriX64tempted to adapt it to windows.
19:09.17``Erikyeah... it won't produce any kinda dump or anyhting
19:09.34IriX64windows does a memory dump.
19:09.34``Erikit immediately dies with 'killed', even if I break _start
19:10.09``Erikif it crashed normal, it'd coredump... if it hit an illegal opcode, it'd die with sigill...
19:10.19IriX64need something to dump memory before the restart thats all.
19:13.34IriX64if the machine  kaffs, set a flag errm no trap illegal and dump core to disk?
19:14.55IriX64meantime back at the cpu, automake waves and keeps on trucking:)
19:15.34brlcadyou used to run a bbs?
19:15.51IriX64many years ago yes.
19:16.08IriX64now where'd that come from?
19:16.17IriX64whatd i paste.
19:16.56IriX64The DogStar bbs, ===> finest kinnd. :)
19:17.38brlcadjust wondering, used to sysop years ago myself
19:17.45IriX64as?
19:18.13IriX64meaning bbs name?
19:19.55IriX64remeber Juge, he's famous :)
19:20.17brlcadah hell, I don't remember .. it was 20 years ago
19:20.33IriX64heh does Juge still have his up?
19:20.37brlcaddo remember we changed the name a couple times
19:20.55IriX64I toyed with that.
19:21.02IriX64had a lot of fun.
19:21.45brlcadplayed with pcboard, but mostly used wwiv
19:22.07brlcadat least if memory serves..
19:22.13IriX64both good systems, i like wildcat too.
19:22.18brlcadyeah
19:22.33IriX64mine was based on adept, os2 pm app , sweet.
19:26.34brlcadzone 4 fidonet seems to ring a bell
19:31.29MaloeranA nice gesture of sanity, it seems Maryland is going to ban capital punishment... though you guys surely know that already
19:34.52brlcadnot much of an issue for maryland, there have only been 5 total in the past 30 years
19:35.53brlcadpretty clear-cut cases of guilt too iirc, regardless of whether you agree with the punishment
19:37.40MaloeranI see. With 5 cases in 30 years, it has to be rather exceptional
19:39.07brlcadpretty much
19:41.36brlcadI think one of the first ones actually dropped his plea and requested execution
19:45.51IriX64this goes beyond patience tonic, but i'll have another swig.
19:48.25IriX64those days bitch slap ``Erik for saying that :)
19:49.38``Erik(heh, yeah, maryland is a little less killhappy than, say, texas....)
19:49.41``Erikmorning, mal
19:52.19MaloeranHey Erik, feel free to tell me where RF crashes on big endian if you try
19:52.39``Eriktomorrie :) and iirc, it wasn't crashing, just showing the wrong colors
19:52.46MaloeranAnd don't try little<->big endian distributed processing yet, I'm not swapping bytes for user messages
19:53.10Maloeran*nods* I need to test the geometry group file format too
19:53.46``Erikcare to entertain a linux/x86/asm problem, mal? I'm as lost as irix64 at a kbd :D
19:53.55IriX64Maloeran? You two were discussing multi-cpu clusters the other day.
19:54.16MaloeranI read above, Erik, but... I'm not too used to syscalls, I rather call libc functions
19:54.26``Erikwell, I d'no if that's the issue here
19:54.39``Erikthe simple ones that use syscalls work, the complex one doesn't... it gives me this
19:54.40``Erik$ uname -mo ; as -o mandelbrot-as.o mandelbrot-as.s && ld -o mandelbrot-as mandelbrot-as.o && ./mandelbrot-as  ; echo $?
19:54.40``Eriki686 GNU/Linux
19:54.40``ErikKilled
19:54.40``Erik137
19:54.41MaloeranIriX64, yes we were
19:55.04MaloeranWhat does gdb say?
19:55.18IriX64if you have a 40 cpu cluster what if you make it such that there is a master cpu to dole out tasks that need running to first idle cpu and what if you had a memory pool with memory doled out on a per task guestimate basis?
19:56.03``Erikmal: http://paste.lisp.org/submit
19:56.28MaloeranIriX64, most such clusters use NUMA, you have multiple memory banks and you want each processor to work on its own local data
19:56.43MaloeranErik, what do you want me to paste there?
19:56.47brlcader, most commercial at least
19:56.56IriX64i envision a pool instead of banks maybe a little more overhead but doable.
19:57.44MaloeranYou are going to choke your memory bus if the 40 processors all go to the same memory bank
19:57.45``Erikoh, hah, woops
19:57.46``Eriksorry
19:57.51``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/37073
19:57.57``Erikpasted the wrong piece
19:58.02IriX64a pool of banks Malorean.
19:58.37MaloeranThe banks are local to each processor for a good reason, it's faster to access them due to the reduced routing circuitry
19:59.02MaloeranWoohoo, that's neat Erik. What's the code?
19:59.42``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/mandelbrot-as.s
20:00.51brlcadtypo on line 562
20:00.57brlcad*ahem* :)
20:01.03``Erikit's generated
20:01.05``Erikso it's fugly
20:01.55``Erik(but it's generated, so if there's a typo, it's gonna appear many places
20:01.58brlcadsure you're not blowing the heap or something
20:02.02MaloeranIt runs for me after a quick fix, outputting nice letters
20:02.14``Erikwhat quick fix?
20:02.29``Erikbrlcad: it works dandy on fbsd, and the C varients runs dandy with teh same sized heap
20:02.38MaloeranRenaming _start to main and gcc foo.s -o foo
20:02.47``Erikhmmmmmmmm
20:03.11``Erikthat, uh
20:03.16``Erik<-- scratches his chin
20:03.35brlcadif renaming _start does the trick.. that would likely be some frame setup / heap problem ..
20:03.40``Erikyeahhhh
20:04.04``Erikmaaaybe I need to actually walk the heap and set everything to 0
20:04.12MaloeranHow did you create your faulty executable?
20:04.28``Erikhrm? I pasted the line up there a bit
20:04.53``Erikheh, it works with teh same sized heap in other places, dude... I bet it's an init thing
20:05.19``Erikperhaps fbsd sets memory in the fork or exec syscall and linux depends on the program startup code in libc to do it? *shrug*
20:05.20MaloeranErik, what commands did you use to assemble and link?
20:05.30``Erik<``Erik> $ uname -mo ; as -o mandelbrot-as.o mandelbrot-as.s && ld -o mandelbrot-as mandelbrot-as.o && ./mandelbrot-as  ; echo $?
20:05.39MaloeranAh right, sorry
20:06.33brlcadheh
20:06.35brlcad"What's going to happen to the 3D market once Google licenses and further develops BRL-CAD? I can see them doing this but releasing it on one of their appliances." - Paul Bowers, USA
20:07.41``Erikhttp://www.upfrontezine.com/2005/upf-431.htm ?
20:08.04``Erikhehehe
20:11.31IriX64wheres Mr. Tromey? why is there no progress indicator on this thing ;)
20:12.05louipchuh? Google is taking over BRL-CAD?
20:12.40MaloeranBy the way Erik, your .s file works for me with _start too, I just had the reflex of letting gcc do the linking
20:17.51brlcadIriX64: on what?
20:18.22MaloeranThat's quite slow, Erik ;)
20:18.41MaloeranIf you really are working on a Brainfuck optimizer that is
20:18.45``Erikwell, ok
20:18.49``Erikwhat's a fast way to zero the heap
20:19.39MaloeranI don't suppose you want to hear about a SSE loop with prefetches, but at least use rep movsq or rep movsd
20:21.48``Erikstosd looks better
20:22.01MaloeranOops, indeed
20:24.19Maloeraninstructions also
20:38.42IriX64http://pastebin.com/884697
20:38.47IriX64it failed.
20:44.00IriX64http://pastebin.com/884699     <this is what i get running them manually with no switches.
20:47.02MaloeranAh, aren't autoconf, automake and libtool just great
20:49.45IriX64http://pastebin.com/884705  <==== this is what the gebnerated configure does, no jokes about my system please.
20:50.12IriX64remember i have successfully built from this source and ran the product.
20:50.45louipcI'm getting problems and I'm on linux :P
20:51.02IriX64ran then in this order aclocal, autoconf, autoheader and automake.
20:52.11IriX64running the script(when it succeeds, the syntax errors are not there)
20:53.10IriX64confirmed, i just ran the script, automake fails but the generated configure does its job.
20:57.21IriX64now it can't find x
20:58.12IriX64and it tries to restart using config.site *doh* this is first time.
20:59.22IriX64errands to run l8r all
21:05.41``Erikheh, that'd put me over 20 makefiles, dude
21:06.23``Erikaaaand, very interesting, if the first thing I do in this program is attempt to exit, it still fails... hmmm
21:06.47brlcadIriX64 isn't exactly the typical autoconf'ing user .. he seems to mindlessly edit files and then wonder why stuf breaks
21:07.41``Erikheh, or extract an old tarball, copy one very new (and incompatable) file in and try that
21:08.07``Erikat least he's trying :)
21:09.15brlcadproblem is he starts on faulty premises *most* of the time.. tools not setup/installed correctly, stuff missing, stuff edited incorrectly, mismatches
21:09.41brlcadi mean, autoreconf/autogen.sh failed on him and yet he still tried to run configure...
21:10.55brlcadMaloeran: and as for his specific errors.. he is using a new configure.ac against old sources that I told him outright would not work, yet he insists on trying
21:17.14dtidrowbrlcad: must need to use a bigger cluebat  ;-)
21:20.56louipcmmm mv m4/mkdirp.m4 misc/, autogen, configure, make, make install fails with same error
21:21.29louipchow do you set that variable in the Makefiles?
21:21.43louipc(I'm kind of a noob)
21:22.39louipcoh no wait
21:23.05louipcignore me
21:24.40``ErikI just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by threatening my agent with a golf club!
21:49.25brlcadlouipc: hm, perhaps move mkdirp.m4 back and edit that file
21:49.42brlcadthen add:
21:49.52brlcadMKDIR_P="$mkdir_p"
21:50.11brlcadAC_SUBST([MKDIR_P])
21:50.23brlcadbefore the last AC_SUBST at the end of the file
21:50.55louipcyou put that as the last two lines of the file yeah
21:51.22brlcadyeah, typo'd
21:51.35brlcadjust noticed
21:51.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/mkdirp.m4: typo
21:51.59brlcadhave to put them BEFORE the last line, else it's not inside the macro
21:52.17louipcoooh
21:55.34louipcI see now
22:09.58``Erikhttp://xkcd.com/c180.html
22:15.03brlcadheh
22:23.52``ErikI might print this one for my door... http://xkcd.com/c217.html
22:53.12*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
23:03.25*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.112.46)
23:13.49MaloeranI think I'm amazed that all these common chess openings and counter-moves have a name on wikipedia, every one of them
23:14.43``ErikI'm amazed that there's a wikipedia page for "ray's urine"
23:14.46``Erik:D
23:14.53louipchey success
23:15.28louipchah hah
23:16.03brlcadlouipc: excellent
23:22.11IriX64dropped back to distributed configure.ac, compiling now (thanks for the bleeding knuckles ;))
23:23.07louipc;)
23:38.49brlcadTwingy: frederick county has legislation going in to boost the county's solar incentive from 3k to 15k
23:40.14Twingynot too shabby
23:40.46Twingya bit of a drive to work though
23:41.39brlcad:)
23:42.08brlcadthat's got to be lobbying from Solar or whatever their name is out there
23:42.22brlcadthat big solar panel company right off the interstate
23:42.22Twingynano solar?
23:42.29Twingyoh, no clue
23:42.52brlcadyou can't miss them driving down I70 .. massive factory covered in panels
23:43.28Twingyah, haven't traveled down I70 since I went to buy my fireworks in 2003 I think
23:43.46Twingymaybe a different interstate I'm thinking of
23:44.08TwingyI'm not even sure if I've ever been on I70
23:44.24brlcadI think BP Global might have bought them out a few years ago
23:44.35brlcadbut the company's name was just "Solar" iirc
23:44.58Twingytoo bad MD is only 20% still
23:45.15Twingy15k means you'd have to spend 75k
23:45.30Twingyfed is 30%, but only 2k
23:45.32brlcadahh, yep.. "BP Solar" now
23:45.34brlcadhttp://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=3050487&contentId=3060089
23:45.59brlcadnews claimed it would cover 50%
23:46.25TwingyI need to buy 2 more soon
23:47.05brlcadyou could have had some interesting "neighbors" .. http://www.solarneighbors.com/
23:49.32Twingycnc'ing a jig right now
23:51.08brlcadahh, that picture on bp is the frederick plant, apparently the main factory (and the company they took over was called Solarex (makers of solarex panels of course))
23:51.45Twingyhopefully more people start putting panels on their roofs
23:53.08TwingyMRI?
23:53.14TwingyI did that a couple of times
23:53.23brlcadlooks like it, but unspecified
23:53.28Twingyhow many teslas was the scanner you were in?
23:53.41brlcadhaven't done it yet
23:53.44Twingyoh
23:54.10brlcadif they're not going to give me the data, then they can go play with themselves in the scanner for all I care
23:54.12Twingythe resolution of the stuff they do for functional MRI case studies is pretty low
23:54.31Twingyonly like 100-200 slices
23:54.48brlcadthat was going to be my follow-up, but I almost expect it .. though nih does have the equipment for better.. just depends whom
23:55.17Twingyit depends on how long they are willing to keep you in the machine
23:55.24brlcad:)
23:55.26Twingythe really high detailed stuff takes several hours to collect
23:55.33Twingysome case studies are over night
23:55.39Twingyyou just sleep in the machine
23:56.53Twingychris cornell left audioslave
23:57.18brlcadso you're going to try and hire him
23:57.32Twingynot sure what use he would be to me :)
23:57.46brlcada walking ipod
23:57.59Twingyright...
23:58.15Twingyyou saw what happened to my last ipod...
23:58.21brlcadhah
23:58.38brlcadi can just picture it now
23:59.24brlcadthat'd be a great family guy flashback
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070220

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070220

00:07.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: export bu_argv0
00:15.29IriX64http://pastebin.com/884885    <===== for the record regressed back to distributed configure.ac and automake-1.9.6
00:16.16louipcIriX64: try using the latest CVS it should work now
00:16.31louipcwith automake 1.10
00:16.36IriX64don't do CVS ;)
00:16.46IriX64btw its installing fine too.
00:17.48louipcman pastebin is lagging
00:17.59IriX64noticed that.
00:18.41IriX64errr did you say it *works with 1.10?
00:18.51louipcyes
00:18.59brlcad~pastebin
00:19.00ibotfrom memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites
00:19.02IriX64the make install part too?
00:20.04IriX64louipc?
00:20.06louipcyeah it was a problem with an empty variable because automake decided to name it with all caps out of the blue
00:20.40louipcyou just need autogen.sh and m4/mkdirp.m4
00:20.43brlcadwhy it didn't work when you removed our mkdirp.m4 is still a mystery, but whatever it works
00:21.25IriX64ty
00:21.46IriX64takes a good man ;)
00:22.42brlcadto do an evil deed?
00:22.44IriX64now to play with it, I'll be seriously neglecting the window for a while :)
00:23.05IriX64s /this/the
00:23.57IriX64evil has Eve's name in it for a reason.
00:25.47IriX6412 minute install time, gotta get a faster toaster.
00:32.27``Erikpaste.lisp.org is teh seckzie
00:44.27brlcadsucky? *duck*
00:50.24CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: searching for a text editor.. needs the path on argv0, not just the name of the binary unless it's going to go hunting for it with bu_which().
00:51.35louipcbrlcad: I think it did work when I moved mkdirp.m4, just an error on my part hence 'oh no wait. ignore me' :P
01:04.16brlcadlouipc: ahh, okay.. good to know then, thx
01:04.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/dirname.c: extract bu_dirname() from malloc.c and put it in its own file. should consider using dirname() since it's part of posix (along with rt_basename() -> basename()).
01:06.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add dirname.c to the compilation
01:07.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: remove bu_dirname(), was moved to new file dirname.c.
01:14.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/malloc.c): get rid of the bu_strdup() dead code and comment how it's really an interface macro pass through that provides file:line info when bu debugging is enabled
01:17.38CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add dirname.c to the msvc build files
01:20.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: at least for now.. bu_dirname() instead of dirname()
01:55.27IriX64why is castle all white and yellow ;)
01:58.55IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/364290
03:11.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): make sure argv is set to avoid btclsh sourcing errors
03:11.49louipcbrlcad includes the latest utah-raster? 3.1b yeah?
03:12.27louipccirca 1996
03:17.41CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): naming consistency, rename rt_dspline.c sans prefix to dspline.c
03:20.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/dspline.c): rename references of rt_dspline.c to dspline.c
03:24.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: eek, double Lesser Lesser
03:32.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): less Lesser
03:33.11CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_fgets.c: ws
03:38.08CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): naming consistency, rename bu_fgets.c to fgets.c
03:38.57CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: bu_fgets.c was missing from the vc7 build file, but we can just go ahead and add its rename of fgets.c
03:39.14brlcadlouipc: yes, plus all patches as of last year
03:39.35louipcoh wow
03:39.51brlcadplus a few build fixes of our own, but nothing critical
03:39.51louipcyeah it looks like a real mess in there
03:41.04louipcI was going to make a packages of some stuff in other/ so I don't have to keep re-compiling it and such
03:41.22brlcadyeah, we also don't quell their compilation warnings (same for most things in src/other) either, so it whines about quite a few things during compilation
03:41.38brlcadsome of them are in package systems
03:43.04CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use a filesystem group, these routines have nothing to do with logging
03:44.14brlcadblt and iwidgets are often not available (but hard as hell to detect during configure) as well as openNURBS and tkimg .. everything else can usually be found
03:44.53louipcis a lot of this being developed any more?
03:44.56brlcadconfigure will automatically disable the compilation of anything it detects by default unless you enable an option that says to compile them
03:45.02brlcada lot of what?
03:45.08louipcother/
03:45.11brlcadoh yeah
03:46.27brlcadthe stable or otherwise dead codes are urtoolkit, awf, jove, libpng, libregex, libtermlib, libutahrle (part of URT), and libz
03:46.57brlcadthe others are fairly active, blt, incrTcl, iwidgets, tcl, tk, openNURBS, tkimg
03:47.01louipcah you split urt into two
03:47.48brlcadyeah, not a great decision in hindsight, but it still has its benefits
03:47.52louipcI downloaded the src from an ftp server and I'm not sure what to do with it hah
03:49.32brlcadoh yeah, we did rewrite their build system too, so it compiles more reliably and cross-platform
03:49.49brlcadbut then that goes for just about everything in other
03:50.26louipcouch
03:51.52louipcI guess I'll start with what you say is still active then
03:52.14louipcthanks
03:53.13brlcadwhich packaging system?
03:53.26louipcarchlinux
03:53.29louipcpacman
03:53.30brlcadahh, that's right
03:54.58brlcadfwiw, tcl/tk cannot be disabled in the current sources due to run-time path resource lookups that tcl tries to do (in order to use a system tcl), but then that is actually what i'm working on tonight
03:55.20brlcadit's been a long-standing problem with using a system tcl/tk
03:55.42louipcah neat yeah you said gentoo people and others were complaining about it
03:56.05brlcadthat same issue trickles over to incrtcl, iwidgets, and blt, but this fix should take care of them all in one swoop
03:56.14brlcadyeah all of the packaging systems
03:56.39brlcadtk was the biggest problem, as we actually had additions made to their sources that we required
03:57.04brlcadbut I've since rewritten and removed the modifications so it can work with a vanilla tk
03:57.58louipcah
04:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
04:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: john continued to rock when he wrote bu_fgets() to allow automatic
04:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: cross-platform line handling ala fgets(), which doesn't necessarily handle all
04:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: of the various line endings that can be encountered (CR, LF, and CR/LF being the
04:02.50CIA-5BRL-CAD: predominant ones). in particular, this fix addresses a bug that was reported on
04:02.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: windows with dxf-g parsing files from another platform incorrectly. note the
04:02.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: fix as it applies to dxf-g at least.
04:04.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fgets.c: whoops, formatting asterick garbage on M-q
04:12.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: should use bu_fgets() instead of fgets() since john's addition makes file for improved cross-platform processing support in general (parsing unix files on Windows, windows files on unix, etc).
04:14.40``Erikjra++
04:15.03``Erikif he wasn't so insanely impressive, I think I'd have moved my office downstairs.
04:15.33``Erikhis gooby sh questions are well worth the "whoa, check me, yo" moments
04:19.46brlcadyeah, he's like a machine
04:20.38brlcadi think this update might just be one helluva collection of "bug fixes" if you consider the inability to parse foreign files a bug
04:21.08brlcadgonna hit almost half the tools, about 150 tools
04:22.27brlcad250 instances
04:24.10Maloeranhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa  -  This is a very nice board game, seems more interesting than Go
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07:47.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: oop, bu_argv0 requires an argument
07:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am:
07:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: turns out that anything being compiled static with gcc and against openNURBS
07:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: needs the -fexceptions flag, that's what was causing the UnwindResume linkage
07:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: error. link conv-vg2g (ugh, needs renaming) and euclid_unformat against libbu
07:51.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: (needed for bu_fgets).
07:54.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ (9 files): convert to bu_fgets(), which of course adds a libbu dependency if there wasn't one already. this allows processing of foreign text files with different line endings more consistently.
08:05.58CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 7 dirs): revert the introduction of a libbu dependency to adrt, it's somewhat inconsequential value added just to get bu_getopt processing compared to the benefit of it still compiling stand-alone if needed.
08:10.52CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: heh, -lm is not a CFLAG, add it to LIBADD instead using LIBM (still need to get adrt's subconfigure working cleanly).
08:20.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (64 files in 22 dirs):
08:20.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: update all usages of fgets() to instead use john's swanktastic bu_fgets() that
08:20.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: behaves as one would generally want regardless of the line ending type of the
08:20.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: compilation platform or of the input files. bu_fgets() responds to input files
08:20.19CIA-5BRL-CAD: that use CR (usually old mac), LF (usually unix, new mac), or CR/LF (usually
08:20.21CIA-5BRL-CAD: windows) for the line ending so now these file do too effectivley squashing
08:20.23CIA-5BRL-CAD: buggish/bad behavior.
08:32.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
08:32.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: john's bu_fgets() fun and my update to the various tools that needed it ends up
08:32.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: improved the end-of-line (EOL) processing in about 70+ tools. basically any
08:32.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: command that read in a text file using fgets(). this fix is particularly
08:32.37CIA-5BRL-CAD: relevant for running our tools on windows where data files are frequently
08:32.39CIA-5BRL-CAD: migrated from the unix/linux/max side without a line-ending conversion.
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08:56.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
08:56.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: bu_getprogname seems to be behaving now, so use it for selection of the
08:56.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: executable name unless it does return null for some reason -- then default back
08:56.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: to just 'mged'. try (again?) to set auto_path before Tcl_Init since we need to
08:56.25CIA-5BRL-CAD: set up auto_path before init so the scripts, including init.tcl, can be found.
08:58.31CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: search for tcl/tk 8.5 too (we're upgrading to it now)
09:05.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tkImgFmtPIX.c: add support for the newer tk 8.5 Tk_PhotoExpand and Tk_PhotoPutBlock functions that now expect an interp parameter, but retain compilation functionality on previous versions too
09:07.49CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltNsUtil.h: comment out a couple function declarations that are apparently declared, at least in 8.5 though they're different/conflicting
09:10.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itcl_util.c: the specified internal assumptions being made by blt don't hold with tcl 8.5 (in particular the set macro doesn't exist), so just comment out that section of code.
09:17.43CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/Makefile.am: add missing dependency on Tcl
09:20.07CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: create an openNURBS noinst library so that we can fully resolve librtserver if brep support is enabled
09:22.05CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/Makefile.am: conditionally include opennurbs into libbrlcad (via the new noinst library) so that we can fully resolve all librt symbols
09:30.42CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/extern.h nirt/showshot.c): need bu.h for bu_fgets()
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16:28.29MaloeranHum. I'm sorry to bother you with that, I wanted to familiarize myself with SURVICE's archer, what is this : Error in startup script: couldn't load file "/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so": /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so: undefined symbol: png_read_destroy ?
16:31.40MaloeranAssuming that's why ./archer gives me a nice white X window
16:37.10MaloeranActually, that white window is bwish
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17:25.15CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: libpng.txt was moved to libpng-1.2.16.txt
17:26.32MaloeranErik, any tips about running Archer?
17:27.13``Erikum
17:27.14``Eriksure
17:27.15``Erikuse windows
17:27.36MaloeranIt's supposed to run on Linux, is it not?
17:28.26``Erikum, mark said that it should, but windows is their dev platform *shrug* the error you're getting might be fixed by preloading libpng.so? *shrug*
17:28.43``ErikLD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libpng.so ./archer
17:29.05MaloeranError remains
17:29.10``Erik(or making tkimg.so link to libpng)
17:29.32``Erikdoes your libpng have that symbol? ...
17:30.21MaloeranDoesn't seem to!
17:31.05MaloeranUpgrading libpng from 1.2.12-r1 to 1.2.13 though that's not likely to help
17:31.08``Erikhm, upgrade it?
17:31.41``Erik1.2.13? wow, how ancient :D 1.2.16 is included in BRL-CAD these days...
17:37.43brlcadMaloeran: it does run on linux, but the version of archer in CVS hasn't been "fixed" to work out of the box
17:38.44MaloeranOh. I suppose there's no quick and easy fix available?
17:38.45brlcadtkimg plugin is failing to load because of that png symbol is a linker issue in tkimg (or version problem with libpng)
17:39.01brlcadquick and easy if you're familiar with archer, sure ;)
17:40.20brlcadwhat does ldd on /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so say regarding libpng?
17:41.59MaloeranLinked to libpng12.so.0
17:44.20MaloeranSame problem with 1.2.15, last version of libpng in Gentoo package tree
17:46.33MaloeranSame problem with latest libpng CVS
17:47.37``Erik$ nm -D /usr/local/lib/libpng.so | grep png_read_destroy
17:47.37``Erik00000000000098f0 T png_read_destroy
17:48.23``Erikhum
17:48.37``Erikis that because linux is obviously superior? :D *duck*
17:49.27louipcMaloeran: not gentoo!?
17:49.27``Erikthe symbol is there on rhat
17:49.40``Erikand suse
17:50.57Maloeranhttp://rafb.net/p/GZGe0y78.html - Look, I'm not dreaming
17:51.01``Erikand debian... hehehe....
17:51.13``Erikit's too bad funroll-loops.org doesn't seem to be responding... O:-)
17:51.24louipc:P
17:51.59brlcadMaloeran: you can relink tkimg.so with static libpng and if you really do have a sufficient version, it should resolve
17:55.37louipcI don't have that symbol either
17:55.37Maloeranlouipc, what I basically want is a Linux from scratch, except... with some package management system, and Gentoo fulfills that
17:55.57``Erikhuh, it's not an optional symbol in 1.2.16... it's a basic part of cleaning up after you read an image O.o
17:57.16louipcMaloeran: have you tried archlinux? It's a lot less compiling but you can custom compile packages as well
17:57.36brlcadyeah, I don't see how you can optionally compile it out either with one of the PNG_* flags
17:57.56louipcthe package management system is a lot more straight forward too
17:58.01MaloeranIt's not really about packages, it's about the whole set up and scripts. I don't want a distribution to force its maze of scripts on me
17:58.19``Erikssoooooo cut their scripts out of the loop?
17:58.37brlcadoh, wait.. there is a overall flag.. PNG_READ_SUPPORTED .. if they compiled with that off, it leaves out all of the routines
17:58.45brlcadincluding png_read_destroy
17:58.50MaloeranIt's tricky, it's often a huge mess. I prefer to start with a clean distribution like Gentoo
18:00.57louipcI've got png_read_end *image *info *png *row *rows *update_info
18:01.03louipcno destroy :(
18:01.28MaloeranExactly
18:03.12brlcadMaloeran: it could also be a bad assumption in tkimg -- it has a stubs lookup table for png_read_destroy -- but it doesn'tactually use the function
18:03.50brlcadyou could just remove it from src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtclDecls.h and pngtclDeclsMask.h
18:04.16brlcadand src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/pngtclStubInit.c
18:08.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: ADRT interface
18:09.22``Erikfek, it's catching them now
18:10.13CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: the comparison engine
18:12.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: move the display back to the end, so the nmg_triangulate spew doesn't obfuscate the results
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18:24.07MaloeranSorry, was away for a bit. png_write_destroy undefined as well, hacking some more
18:25.44MaloeranAh finally, there we go, thanks
18:27.10MaloeranIt works until "Error, can't find package blt", that is.
18:27.23``Erikso make it a sandwich, bitch
18:28.02``Erikblt == bacon lettuce tomato
18:28.03``Erik:D
18:34.13MaloeranOkay, I'll give up on Archer for now. Mark wanted to know about integrating RF in it
18:38.48IriX64_Maloeran? windows archer or *nix archer?
18:39.51MaloeranLinux archer of course
18:39.59IriX64_ty
18:50.49IriX64goof that i am sigh ...
18:53.24``Erikheh, it's a bit of a walk
18:54.56IriX64any wild beasten would disagree with me though :)
18:56.59IriX64``Erik promptly roars with hunger.
18:57.16louipc<PROTECTED>
18:57.32IriX64not following?
18:58.02``Erikand that's why drugs are bad.
18:58.41IriX64heh you paint with a broadsword there you know that.
18:59.21louipcwide brush?
18:59.57IriX64very
19:17.11Maloeranbrlcad, would it be possible for you to quickly put me on the right track to solve this "Error, can't find package blt"?
19:17.38``Eriksounds like a tcl path error
19:17.49``Erikwhen you built brlcad, did it try to use the system tcl?
19:18.15MaloeranI have absolutely no idea, plain standard ./configure --prefix=/usr
19:18.31``Erikhm, in src/other/libtcl, do you see libtcl_nil.la ?
19:19.07IriX64try /prefix=/usr/brlcad.
19:19.14IriX64err --
19:19.29MaloeranYes, it's there
19:19.41MaloeranErr nevermind, not the _nil part
19:20.25``Erikhm, just libtcl.la ?
19:20.39MaloeranCorrect
19:20.48MaloeranAnd libctcl8.4.la
19:21.15``Erikok, so it did build the tcl lib, hum
19:21.29louipchm
19:21.41``Erikok, did src/other/blt get installed?
19:21.59MaloeranSeems to be compiled and installed, yes
19:22.11``Eriktryyyyy LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/brlcad/lib ?
19:23.16MaloeranProblem remains
19:23.28``Erik('cept it sounds like it's not finding the blt tcl index thingymajigger)
19:23.41MaloeranIt occurs whenever I try to load or create a .g file
19:25.49``Erikin... mged? or archer?
19:25.59MaloeranArcher
19:49.27IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/365207  <this is what archer says here Maloeran.
20:00.33MaloeranCool, looks worse than mine :)
20:08.46CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/Makefile.am: required images that need installed...
20:09.00CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (Makefile.am include/Makefile.am): colorquant.h was moved to src/other/libutahrle/include/.
20:09.33``Erikhm, seems to work fine for me
20:09.36``Erikkinda neat
20:14.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): dependancy info
20:16.39MaloeranAh well, booting the win98 Pentium 2
20:16.41``Erikdoes mged work?
20:17.28MaloeranYes
20:17.54MaloeranOr at least I think so, I don't know how to do anything with it.. but files load :}
20:18.41``Erikum, in the command window, after you've opened a .g file, type "tops", then pick something interesting from that list and type "e <something>"
20:19.13``Erikthen you should be able to do mouse crap in the view window, uh, middle click I think is to rotate
20:19.45MaloeranYup, it renders
20:20.55MaloeranHoly... graal, the raytrace is slow! :) My poor laptop
20:21.00``Erikwhat about ummmm, uninstall, clean, reconfigure with --enable-almost-everything and do the build/install and see if that "fixes" it?
20:23.00Maloeran153 seconds to shoot 2 million rays
20:23.19MaloeranAll right, I'll try that switch
20:23.36Maloeranmged seems to have froze after the render completed
20:23.53``Erikfroze? hrm, odd
20:24.45brlcadMaloeran: default compile is non-optimized on top of it
20:24.46MaloeranThe GUI was just made of plain gray windows
20:25.29brlcadmged's gui is non-optimal in many regards, it's not meant to be impressive
20:26.11brlcadif you recompile, unless you need to debug, add --enable-optimized too
20:26.13MaloeranNo, I mean the mged windows were just of a filled plain gray instead of the usual widget elements
20:26.36brlcadsounds like it's waiting for something
20:26.49brlcada dialog, or it's frozen on a bug, hard to say -- don't know what you did
20:26.52``Erikyeah, hurry up and click the button that's not drawing... no, not that one!!!
20:26.53``Erik:D
20:27.20brlcadooh
20:27.21MaloeranI clicked on "raytrace" multiple times, then closed that dialog window after the render, and it went grey
20:27.42MaloeranMultiple times because I thought it wasn't working, it hadn't filled a handful of lines yet
20:27.59brlcadahh, you probably provoked a bug
20:28.06brlcadand that
20:28.13brlcaddo a killall rt on the command line
20:28.28brlcador run "rtabort" if you can type into the command window
20:29.12MaloeranThe command window was gone. I just did  killall -9
20:30.49brlcaddid it restore or still stuck?
20:31.32brlcadif the command window gets too much data being dumped too quickly to it, there is a bug where it'll get stuck in a Tcl event handler loop, hanging mged
20:32.22``Eriktrying to see if other bits and chunks of the install work...
20:32.23MaloeranThat might be what happened. I'm sorry I didn't wait very long, I just did killall -9
20:32.40brlcadiirc, archer specifically tries to load blt directly, not using the auto_path search -- so you might have to tweak the load-line
20:34.11brlcadbob didn't make it robust cross-platform-wise, he got it working and moved on .. needed to produce another release for a different platform, made a few tweaks, and moved on
20:35.16brlcadsorta the multi-os makefile approach actually .. just that he's only fuddled with 2 of them so far and they have hard-coded assumptions about the compiler sort of setup
20:35.19brlcad;)
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20:35.39brlcadnot literally of course, it's all tcl foo
20:37.06``Erikdan seems to be having issues today o.O
20:46.36CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: no g_brep.cpp here...
20:49.56``Erikoh, brlcad, I put those 3 fast linux machines into the perfmon mix
20:50.20``Erikso now instead of getting excel spreadsheets saying they're going untouched, we can look at a graph of how untouched they are :D
21:12.39Maloeran--enable-almost-everything fixed the tkimg library issue, but it still throws errors about BLT
21:16.11Maloeran14 seconds for 750000 rays, a bit better
21:19.07MaloeranBug is reproductible. Click 20 times on "raytrace", and when all of them have completed or so I assume, processor usage drop back to zero and the mged gui freezes
21:19.21MaloeranI understand one isn't supposed to do that :)
21:19.46``Erikheh
21:20.16``Eriknow try uninstalling, make clean, then configure with --enable-optimized :D
21:20.21MaloeranI did that
21:20.25``Erikokie
21:20.34``Erikslightly less horrible *shrug*
21:21.24MaloeranI'm sure its rays are far more accurate than mine :)
21:21.37``Erikiiiinteresting, I keep getting brlcad_config.h files with exactly one line... :/
21:24.20Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/brlcad-rt-freeze.png  -  Just in case there's any doubt about what I mean
21:27.58brlcadMaloeran: hmmm. that might actually be a different issue
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21:56.20CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged in console mode goes into an inf loop if you try to read from stdin using Tcl routines (e.g. read stdin, fgets stdin blah).; mged in GUI mode rejects reads on stdin
21:56.21louipclol
21:58.00MaloeranIs that the bug? I would have assumed an infinite loop to consume some cpu time, it was more deadlocked
21:58.28brlcadMaloeran: no, different issue altogether
21:58.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/prj_add.tcl: header and ws
22:01.55brlcadthere are lots of similarly "unforgiving" bugs that can occur when you do bad things that are considered bad use
22:02.12brlcadi don't generally fix them as time is being put towards the new interface instead
22:02.18brlcadi just document them as needed
22:05.01brlcadand fix or work-around if they're non-triivial or I'm needing some diversion
22:27.56Maloeran*nods* Sean, where in the brlcad source should I look for the conversion from solid modelling to triangles?
22:32.39brlcaddepends on the purpose, but mostly in the converters section, src/conv, if you are doing a data conversion
22:34.58MaloeranI would like to see how complex it would be to make triangles face the proper way, build better meshes for raytracing ( less long thin triangles ), and perhaps fix the gaps between connected surfaces. It's the right place?
22:35.39brlcadas a starting point, yes
22:36.02brlcadthat expands into src/librt .. a vast collection of nmg_* files and routines
22:36.26brlcadi can explain the overall process if you like
22:36.37brlcadfrom a high level, if it'd help
22:37.03MaloeranIt could help, thanks. These files of 236kb are a bit intimidating
22:38.15MaloeranI think there might be several issues with the triangulation process. Do you consider the code is good enough to work from there, or a rewrite might be preferable?
22:38.35brlcaddepends on a lot of factors
22:38.53brlcadit's not an easy problem at all, with the constraint of being topologically preserving
22:38.58brlcadand maintaining closure
22:39.25MaloeranIndeed, but I'm afraid any major changes to such a big piece of code might be more trouble than even rewriting..
22:39.27brlcadit's slightly easier to just get triangles, but even that requires effort -- basically the evaluation of the boolean
22:39.50brlcadthe code actually isn't that bad -- the approach is sound
22:39.53MaloeranGood to hear
22:40.04brlcadthe bad news is that it lacks horribly in robustness
22:40.20MaloeranYes, I noticed that...
22:40.21brlcadit doesn't manage propagate tolerance control very well
22:40.33brlcadand doesn't have good failure checking/recovery
22:41.15brlcadthe algorithmic approach, however, is one of the recommended ways to go to maintain a solid model
22:41.57MaloeranI think that if a good and very fast solid modelling -> triangles conversion were possible, views could be raytraced interactively during the modelling
22:41.58brlcadwe might actually have a rewrite in our laps already with openNURBS .. but that requires additional effort to integrate with to determine how good they tessellate
22:42.28brlcadthat they could (and opengl becomes usable too)
22:43.18brlcadi was actually thinking of having your engine serve as that kind of real-time interface renderer in the new modeler if it were ever integrated
22:43.21MaloeranI think that would be really nice, and it would put some very-fast-but-not-so-accurate raytracer to good use
22:43.36brlcadbe able to toggle between opengl, raytraced, wireframe, etc
22:43.41MaloeranExactly
22:44.18brlcadso back to the crux of the problem to solve is the evaluation of the implicit solids and csg booleans (two separate problems)
22:44.46brlcad*currently*, the nmg code in librt does the following:
22:45.40brlcad1) it walks a given csg hierarchy all the way down to the primitive level
22:46.03brlcad2) it facetizes each primitive according to tessellation/tolerance/size criteria
22:46.41brlcad3) it walks back up the csg hierarchy combining the facetized collections according to the CSG operations encountered
22:46.54MaloeranI'm not sure I would facetize before extruding volumes and so on... but please continue
22:47.18brlcadyes, that's a very good observation
22:47.58brlcadthe bulk of the effort happens in the "combining the facetized collections" as that is the evaluation of the boolean, comparing polygon sets against polygon sets
22:48.09brlcadthe implicits were evaluated in step 2
22:48.58MaloeranSome problems, like gaps, are impossible to solve without swapping 2) and 3)
22:49.40brlcadfor 3) to evaluate the CSG operations, it walks over all edges, of all loops, of all faces, of all surfaces, of all regions .. doing the pairwise comparison -- determines which polygons are inside or outside and depending on the operator, throws away those fully in/out as needed
22:49.52brlcadyes, very true
22:50.04brlcadwell, you can guarantee no gaps
22:50.12brlcadbut you can't guarantee that you'll find a solution
22:50.23MaloeranEheh, okay :)
22:50.32brlcadit does guarantee no gaps, that is the nature of the nmg structure of walking edges, loops, faces, etc
22:51.09MaloeranDoes it? The triangulated truck I was given has clear gaps between adjacent primitives
22:51.21Maloeran( and it's not a raytracing artifact )
22:52.21brlcadand when you have two spheres that are intersecting and being union'd together, for example, you will have two polygon datasets to start with, it computes which triangles are fully inside the other and throws them away, then computes where exactly the triangles intersect and correctly trims them and fuses the two sets together at a reasonable seam
22:53.43brlcadmaybe I should say the structure "can" and is supposed to -- barring any bugs of course.  there are other ways to extract polygons that will drop the solid model criteria, especially if it gets to solutions it cannot resolve
22:54.50brlcadfor solid models, which are the predominant concern, it's supposed to, but then when we're going to polygons, it's usually for a non-solid model purpose so it is sometimes relaxed -- don't know the detail of how the truck was generated specifically (and it still could just be a bug regarless)
22:55.24MaloeranAll right, so gaps don't normally occur. That's reassuring
22:56.01brlcadretaining knowledge of the actual surface/primitive toplogy is frankly a better way to go (and perhaps even an easier implementation)
22:56.15MaloeranYes, I think so too
22:56.21brlcadbut still requires a conversion from implicit form, to some explicit form
22:56.23MaloeranHow efficient and optimized is the current code?
22:56.26brlcadjust not triangles
22:56.46brlcadheh, nmg facetization?  it's not optimized
22:57.20brlcadit's hard enough to get it working "correctly" regardless of the computational constraint
22:57.42MaloeranStupid question : where can I see the list of all csg primitives used/known by the software?
22:58.31brlcadthey're all in src/librt/g_*.c
22:58.39brlcadvisually, here's "most" of them: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png
22:59.17brlcadthere are some details missing, that picture is just a simplification, and leaves some of the more complex/experimental primitives out
22:59.19MaloeranHrmph, quite a few of them
23:00.22louipchow's the extrude further represented?
23:00.37brlcadall of them, except perhaps the bot/ars (i.e. triangles), dsp (i.e. height field), extrude/sketch, and bitmap primtiives are stored and usually processed in implicit form
23:01.09brlcadlouipc: what do you mean?
23:01.25brlcadan extrude object is coupled to some sketch object
23:01.45brlcadsketches are pretty flexible/arbitrary collections of points, lines, arcs, loops, etc
23:02.47louipcah
23:02.52brlcadi think extrude would probably be considered a hybrid, it's actually evaluated in a semi-implicit form, though the sketch is clearly an explicit representation
23:03.56brlcadextrusions are basically a direction vector and distance off of a sketch along with ratio scaling vectors
23:05.11brlcadMaloeran: the *plan* so far, assuming that this openNURBS business works out well (and it's going great so far, Jason's making nice progress) is to implement a "describe yourself in explicit spline surface form" for all primitives
23:06.48brlcadall primitives already have various describe functions -- describe in implicit form, describe in explicit wireframe form, describe as serialized on-disk form, describe as textual values, etc
23:07.09MaloeranRight, sounds like a good step towards a robust triangulation
23:07.16brlcadthere's a stub in there (that a couple of the major primitives already implement) for describing in brep/spline surface form
23:07.38MaloeranI wonder though if it might not be slower than just working from the primitive equations, for most of them
23:07.42brlcadwith that implemented, the next step would be to implement the boolean evaluation of brep against brep
23:08.25brlcadonce you have an evaluated boolean-free brep, triangulation is trivial and can usually be done in real-time
23:09.07brlcadwhat do you mean by "work from the primitive equations"?  which equation?
23:09.40MaloeranOf the csg primitives rather than splines
23:11.06brlcadi think i'm still not following what "it" was in "if it might not be slower"
23:11.40brlcadthe big question is how hard and computationally intensive is it to evaluate brep against brep, evaluating the boolean
23:12.36brlcadmy feel is that will be "reasonably fast" as in a couple seconds for an object with dozens to hundreds of primitives
23:12.57brlcadtessellation would be practically instantaneous
23:13.16MaloeranYes... but that doesn't sound fast enough for interactive use, during the modelling process
23:13.35brlcadevaluation of the boolean when they are triangle vs triangle is what we have now with the nmg conversion process
23:13.52brlcadevaluation of the boolean when they are implicit against implicit is what we have now with librt
23:14.27brlcadactually, it generally is fast enough, because that's the time to convert something all-out
23:14.42brlcadthat conversion can be hidden in many places (during file load for example)
23:15.11brlcadduring editing, it's pretty much instantaneous evaluation as you're only evaluating small deltas
23:15.23Maloeran*nods* It's just less practical to stall the rendering for a couple seconds every time the user makes a change, though you could only rebuild the affected region
23:15.28MaloeranAll right, great
23:15.39brlcadit's actually the approach most commercial cad systems take that use BREP as their primary representation
23:15.53brlcadand you do end up pausing on large models while it evaluates every now and then
23:16.05MaloeranSounds very nice then. The only problem I'm seeing is not having triangles face the proper way, which should be really easy to fix
23:20.21MaloeranThat and efficiency perhaps. Would you mind some #ifdef __SSE__ in that code? ;)
23:21.23brlcaddepends on a lot of factors, but in general not really a problem so long as there's an alternative
23:22.10brlcadthe bigger issue would be tolerance, there's entire classes of cases where even double floating point isn't enough
23:22.28MaloeranOh? I wouldn't have expected that
23:22.56brlcadyeah, that's one of the bigger problems some of the CAD systems deal with to varying degrees of success/failure
23:23.35brlcadyou know what a tapered blend is, yes?
23:23.52MaloeranSorry, I don't
23:25.19MaloeranA reasonably fast fixed 128 or 256 bits data type to handle these cases wouldn't be too much trouble to write, perhaps to integrate in the code though
23:25.59Maloeran( With SSE, a home-made 128 bits floating point format doesn't look so bad )
23:26.03brlcadhmm, better example then.. say you have a hand full of peanut butter and you smear it out across a table making a sloping ramp that becomes rather minutely thin
23:26.24MaloeranThat I can follow :)
23:26.30brlcadthe issue becomes how and where you terminate the ramp
23:27.02MaloeranI see, okay
23:27.43brlcadit might be a smear that is mathematically something like |||||\\\~~~~~,,,,.....
23:27.44brlcadthe question is how many dots
23:27.44MaloeranI'm thinking, we really could make a 128 bits floating point data type in SSE that would be just a bit slower than double
23:27.53brlcadeven with double on most cases, you cannot go out as far as you need to without truncating the ramp prematurely
23:28.04``ErikO.o
23:28.15brlcadelse you end up with something mathematically just a plane .. and that's no longer a solid model
23:28.24MaloeranUnderstood
23:28.38brlcadthat particular case actually happens a lot in real engineering models
23:29.03brlcadsolder between joints, tapered blends, various materials combining together, etc
23:29.06MaloeranIf these cases can be identified before or when we encounter them, a home-made floating point format could be a great solution
23:29.12brlcadthere are others, but that's the easiest to describe
23:30.07brlcadpart of the problem is that they are frankly hard as hell to identify and even worse to detect them
23:30.25MaloeranOops okay, that's a problem
23:30.39brlcadbecause you already have code asking questions like "are theses two surfaces cojoined".. are they the same, are they just "really close", etc
23:31.09brlcadif you assume just really close, then you lose solid model connectivity, introduce gaps, etc
23:31.43brlcadif you assume they're not, then there similarly isn't a problem of gaps and such, but you truncate and create non-faithful geometry
23:31.48MaloeranIndeed
23:32.11brlcadyou sort of need to know the modelers intent during the modeling process
23:32.23brlcadwhich would be great to have of course... but you rarely have that :)
23:32.53brlcadthat's where unigraphics and solidworks start earning their pricetags
23:32.58MaloeranHum. I really thought the interface would allow modellers to make their intend clear
23:33.09MaloeranAt least it was when I did Autocad
23:33.43brlcadinitially you have it, after almost any conversion except sometimes with STEP, all that is lost
23:34.18brlcadand most real modeling is done by teams and/or between companies/groups and often using different cad systems
23:35.15brlcadiges is/was the predominant cad exchange format, and it didn't retain this sort of intent modeling, just connectivity if you were lucky, but sometimes you'd lose even that
23:35.16MaloeranRight, so intents on connectivity are lost and the code falls back on... guesses
23:35.41brlcadand then all bets are off, normals get reverse, you might get cracks, etc ;)
23:36.48brlcadfor as painful and crappy as NMGs are in librt, they're actually on par with a lot of cad systems for that class of conversion, sometimes it's even better
23:37.16brlcadbut the approach is fundamentally limited given you loose actual surface/intersection information really early on during implicit evaluation
23:37.51MaloeranIf it's really a problem that numerical precision can solve... I'm thinking about some hack coming from my overview of the gcc code
23:38.01brlcadit then spends 80-99% of the time evaluating sets of N^3 problems
23:38.18MaloeranWe could replace the built-in fpu emulation code with floats and doubles of 128 and 256 bits
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070221

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070221

00:00.20MaloeranI think I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be any patch to replace the usual fp math with higher precision calculations. It might mess up file and network I/O, but that can be more easily solved than rewriting code to use GMP
00:23.08brlcadhem, i actually think rewriting the code to use gmp would be easier :)
00:23.26brlcadand gmp already uses fpu to accelerate where it can
00:35.31``Erikneat http://ulysses.jpl.nasa.gov/
00:37.40CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/pngtcl/Makefile.am: pngtcl needs the zlib cppflags too
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00:39.38brlcadfunky
00:40.14``Erikpeer kicked the shit outta you, yo!
00:40.50tofu_apparently
00:40.53brlcadindeed
00:41.19brlcadi think a router reset at ze lab
00:41.38``Erikscreen is mighty
00:41.40brlcador at least along the path to my isp
00:41.53brlcadscreen r0xers by b0xers
00:42.10*** part/#brlcad tofu_ (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:42.38brlcadhm
00:43.15``Erikand the rc config for it is so trivial, I mean, check out how simple and obvious this is...
00:43.16``Erikhardstatus alwayslastline "%{b}[ %{B}%H %{b}][ %{w}%?%-Lw%?%{b}(%{W}%n*%f %t%?(%u)%?%{b})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{b}][%{B} %d/%m %{W}%C%a %{b}]"
00:43.23``ErikO:-)
00:44.01MaloeranThat's worse than Itanium assembly
00:44.05``Erikhehehe
00:44.13brlcadpass that to your brainfuck compiler, see what happens
00:44.40``Erikheh
00:44.45``Erik*look*
00:44.47brlcadlooks like apache log syntax actually
00:44.52``Erikthere're no i/o commands
00:45.01``Erikthe loops are closed, so it'd be legit
00:45.20``ErikI think it'd reduce to [][-][]
00:45.57``Erikwhich'd be something like {char n=0; while(--n);}
00:47.21MaloeranAnd you won't even optimize that to avoid waiting for 'n' to loop over its numerical range? Tsk
00:47.27``Erik(the optimization pass in my compiler is very very trivial right now...)
00:47.46``Eriknow the generic partial evaluation engine I want to put in there would actually reduce it to an empty program, I THINK
00:48.49``Erikright now it compiles down to
00:48.50``Erikwhile(*ptr){}while(*ptr){--*ptr;++*ptr;}while(*ptr){}
00:49.01MaloeranAhah
00:49.34``Erikat least the asm is readable O:-)
00:49.52MaloeranI think you should tackle structured knowledge systems for AI with me instead, it's fun too
00:50.17``Erikbut it sounds like you're trying to reinvent 50's style ai, dude :D
00:50.26``Eriktake an AI course at the local uni or something O.o
00:51.32MaloeranI think you might have missed an aspect when I tried to explain... It doesn't seek rational solutions and output errors when conflicts occur
00:51.50``Erikok, so it's a fuzzy expert system
00:52.07MaloeranIt's all probability based, the network of relation between entities evolve as to try to resolve any conflicting information, somehow
00:52.27``Erikso 60's ai
00:52.49``Eriked was working out some probability algebra that was interesting looking a bit ago o.O
00:52.49MaloeranIt learns by itself from any logical statements being fed to it, it isn't an "expert system"
00:53.46MaloeranAnd that's just the interface, it grows new "entities" ( nodes ) which aren't mapped to units it's being fed, as part of the pseudo-reasonning network
00:54.02``Erikso just like the 70's game "animal"
00:54.22``Erik'game'... *cough*... virus... :)
00:55.24``Erikit was a program that spread itself to new systems and played a game of 20 questions
00:55.39MaloeranI think humans think by previously assimilated relations between entities, with many fuzzy pseudo-entities emerging during the learning process
00:55.40``Erikand new information was put into the program when it was stumped, which also spread
00:55.52MaloeranAnd errors, erroneous reasoning leads to creativity
00:56.31MaloeranOh well, you aren't interested, I got it :)
00:57.01``Erikseriously, take a good ai class, see how you feel about it after that :)
00:57.15MaloeranI read everything you pasted to me about AI so far
00:57.33``Erikhm, I pasted very very old articles focused on a very specific problem
00:58.00``Erika class will go over a broad range of approaches and applications quickly
00:58.03MaloeranYes, apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm not
00:59.10``Erik<-- still thinks you're taking a pretty classic and well known approach... mebbe is not understanding you very well *shrug*
00:59.54MaloeranPerhaps I am, I have no idea, just not the classic approachs you pasted so far
01:00.14``Erikhttp://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/animalsrc.html
01:02.28MaloeranOkay, I don't think I'll be reading that assembly... :) but surely it has nothing in common with the approach above
01:02.54MaloeranIt's designed to "understand" relations between entities to be able to put any information, statement or question within its known context
01:03.56MaloeranAnd it doesn't do that like these "expert systems", its knowledge base grows as an abitrary network of nodes, which are traversed accordingly to probabilities
01:04.44MaloeranStatements are assimilated trying to minimize conflicts, and questions are answered by the paths guided by probabilities ( answers may vary if re-asked )
01:05.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
01:05.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: leave a note that it's known that running any of the various mged commands (e.g.
01:05.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: clicking the raytrace button many times quickly, or running rtarea on a large
01:05.45CIA-5BRL-CAD: model) that output a lot of data will hang mged (idle cpu utilization)
01:07.16*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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01:19.20MaloeranNice page Erik, amusing to read about these mainframes able to access one 36 bits word every 8 microseconds
01:23.42MaloeranAh, or the "Fire" indicator on their massive printer, next to a "Extinguish" button!
01:24.30``Erikcomputers are cool like that
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01:28.00IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/365550  <=== we were comparing numbers ``Erik.
01:28.34IriX64drugs do that to you :)
01:30.03IriX64it's beautifull. (the picture I mean)
01:30.52``Erikheh
01:30.52MaloeranAhaha, the FASTRAND had one massive drum for storage which caused it to crawl around the room during use
01:31.07IriX64Gary has a nice world right? :)
01:34.15IriX64should have waited and posted the whole run, you interested?
01:34.27IriX64its still on the screen.
01:36.21IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/365561 <====if anyones interested in the actual numbers.
01:37.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: don't use voidpc as it's a rather new addition to libz that likely might not be available if we're linking against a system zlib.
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01:43.32handsome_evilhello all
01:43.47handsome_evili just found brl cad a minute ago
01:43.57brlcadhello mr evil
01:44.03handsome_evili want to ask how relevant brlcad with autocad?
01:44.28brlcadautocad is a drafting CADD package, brl-cad is a solid modeling CAD package
01:44.53brlcadpredominantly different domains, some functionality overlap, but highly likely not what you're hoping
01:45.17brlcaddecent foundation to be that though, if you're a developer
01:45.36brlcadscreenshot of the modeler in action, http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
01:46.36handsome_evilumm.. if just for solid modeling i'v allready using blender
01:46.56handsome_evili just wana get a 2d drafting for my presentation
01:47.02brlcadheh, blender is horrible for solid modeling, but a great modeler
01:47.24handsome_evilwhat is mean solid modeling is horrible??
01:47.29handsome_evilthe resolution??
01:48.04brlcadsolid modeling is an entire engineering-based approach
01:48.25brlcadguarantees of topology, connectivity, engineering-specific constraints and requirements
01:48.39brlcadblender provides no such featureset
01:48.56brlcadit's more in line with modeling systems like maya and softimage
01:49.20handsome_evilumm.. that nice, but i am not an engeneering, so i think don't need brlcad if like that
01:49.23brlcadwhereas solid modeling system examples would be packages like unigraphics/nx, solidworks, pro/engineer, etc
01:50.01brlcadbrl-cad will render hidden-line images ala drafting diagrams, example http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
01:50.35brlcadbut the package is inherintly not a drafting modeler, that would be something like qcad (there's not many open source options)
01:51.50handsome_evilbtw i hate qcad..
01:51.58brlcadhehe, don't we all
02:03.57brlcadhandsome_evil: some more perspective.. http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
02:04.10brlcadautocad is a CADD package (big oval on the left)
02:04.23brlcadwe overlap a little in various areas
02:06.28handsome_evilhttp://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png >> that very nice, may be i will try brlcad
02:06.28handsome_evilafter download the big software i think :-D
02:07.17brlcadhandsome_evil: for what it's worth, the tutorials on the website are *required* if you want to learn how to be productive with it
02:07.31brlcadand they're just an introduction
02:07.53brlcadin particular the http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
02:08.36handsome_evilok thank you very much brlcad
02:09.56brlcadno problem, feel free to stay and hang out or come back if you have any questions
02:11.10``Erikirritating, I seem to be missing files
02:12.53``Erik<-- scratches his chin
02:13.01``Erikwe should put those rt06 posters on teh website or something
02:13.10IriX64didn't mean you itchy :)
02:13.11brlcadyup
02:13.22brlcadthey give you back pdfs?
02:13.29``Erikum, psd's
02:13.29brlcador word docs or whatever
02:13.33brlcadahh, nifty
02:13.36``Erikbut preview can convert to pdf
02:13.38``Erikiirc
02:13.48CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: irritating.. zlib only seems to provide voidpc with the latest versions of zlib, and is incompatible with the voidp type found in the older headers. conditionally declare using the new zlib's ZLIB_VERNUM.
02:14.01``Erikwe'd probably need to scan and post the form 1's, too
02:14.19brlcadas long as you have them somewhere accessible
02:14.34brlcadI have a file, or at least I used to, for old stuff
02:15.06``Erikif ya keep the ARL-1's with the file, you dont' have to go far to find 'em :)
02:15.45``Erikif it's a pdf, they can be attached as "page 2"
02:15.47brlcadpretty useless gov't overhead garbage baggage for the project though
02:15.54``Erik*shrug*
02:16.16brlcadit'd matter more if it were a gov't site too
02:16.32``Erikor better yet, keep copies in cvs in the web/ module
02:16.37brlcadheh
02:16.59brlcadpoor neglected web module
02:17.44brlcadi could see a dir with them, or just tossing them up with the uploads, but it just starts a bad precedent of something else to manage that from an open source perspective is counterproductive
02:17.59``Erik<-- has no problem burning sf's disk space
02:18.35``Erik*shrug* not that it'd ever be challenged, heh
02:18.40brlcadif you have a few, then someone might ask .. "well what about theses over here" and then you have to either hunt them down, or determine they're okay, or prove it doesn't applyl, etc
02:18.45brlcadexactly
02:18.48brlcadso why bother :)
02:19.08brlcadis that a brainslug on your head? :)
02:19.22``Erik#37 yo
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02:23.02``Erikheh
02:23.23``Erikirix photon mapped a havoc http://bz.bzflag.bz/~erik/shot3.jpg
02:24.03IriX64ty.
02:24.36``Erikhm, a few little things... jpg is lossy, png would look better...
02:24.51``Erikit looks aliased, hypersampling fixes that up
02:25.08IriX64man ive been meaning to get a better screen capture tool, what would you recommend.
02:25.16``Erikrt from the command line can output a .pix file, then you can use pix2png
02:25.25brlcadand due to the way he implemented photon mapping, if you put havoc in a box, even a big one, you can get vastly better results..
02:25.26``Erikuhhh, Grab.app? :D *duck*
02:25.30IriX64ty ill try that.
02:25.32``Erik*nod*
02:25.36``Erikor a sphere
02:25.43``Erikany enclosing geometry
02:26.10``Erikand, naturally, more photons means a better lookin' pic, at the cost of cpu time :)
02:26.17brlcadcan use the "inside" command to hollow out various primitives
02:26.19IriX64I did *NOT implement photon mapping by any stretch.
02:26.38``Erikwhen I was preparing the poster images, some of 'em ran all night
02:27.36handsome_evilbut BRL-CAD doesn't support 2d drating and not possible to make blue print isn't it??
02:27.52handsome_evil*drafting
02:27.52``Erikheh, no, twingy implemented the photon mapping... he also coded up adrt and the path tracing used to generate http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
02:27.55brlcadrise alone, even being a pig, make adrt worth keeping around
02:28.18brlcadat least until someone one-ups the quality possible
02:28.27``Erik<-- wonders if the hummer animation can be put somewhere o.O
02:28.36IriX645 *days?
02:28.43brlcadhandsome_evil: there is some 2D drafting support, but worse than qcad from a GUI perspective
02:28.44``Erikyes
02:28.49``Erikon a small cluster
02:29.30brlcad``Erik: it's even been form 1'd even though it's not an army model
02:30.10``Erikheh, irix, what kinda hw are you using?
02:30.13brlcad``Erik: you have access to the ftp.brlcad.org web root, /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org
02:30.20IriX64cheap :)
02:30.39brlcadthere's a /tmp, images, and datafiles in there that are not synchronized up
02:30.50brlcadbrlcad.org does sync down though
02:31.15brlcad(thinking of changing that soon)
02:31.24handsome_evilany one here have try gcad???
02:31.58brlcadheh
02:32.02brlcadgood luck with that
02:32.59``Erik<-- not in the brlcad or www groups
02:33.10brlcadhuh?
02:33.21IriX64``Erik i just looked at your post again, you are right, needs clarity ill see what i can do about it not that i send a whole lot of oix, but still.
02:33.28brlcadyou're in brlcad group
02:33.33IriX64err pix too.
02:33.41``Erikwoops, sorry
02:33.41brlcadwhich gets you sudo access to www group
02:33.41``Erikheh
02:33.55brlcadsudo -u www for web actions
02:35.04louipchey new people awesome
02:35.16brlcadIriX64: it would be a great (and relatively straight-forward) exercise to build a big box or sphere around havoc, put a light inside and render with photon mapping
02:35.18``Erikirix: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/humvee3.png
02:35.59IriX64brlcad: you have experience on me, i'm just a tinkerer.
02:36.16brlcadthat's why I said it'd be a great exercise
02:36.33brlcadyou should be able to do that after like two tutorials in the mged intro
02:36.50``Erika, a bigger one than at sf... http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/stryker_slat.png
02:36.54IriX64``Erik beautifull but why the canary? :)
02:36.57brlcador even just playing with "make box arb" with some booleans :)
02:37.16``Erik'canary'?
02:37.19IriX64Ill learn.. eventually.
02:37.26IriX64color yellow?
02:37.36``Erikuh, that's a beige, actually
02:37.43brlcaddoesn't get much more basic than making a hollow box ;)
02:37.43``Erikthe kinda beige they paint those for desert use
02:38.01brlcadI'd send that out to the list as a nice tutorial if you got a picture from it
02:38.27handsome_evilhttp://www.graphiteone-cad.com/en/index.htm >> nice cad for presentation, but seem have no material supported..... :(
02:38.44brlcadmake sph sph? :)
02:38.55``Erikyeah, it's hard for me
02:39.02``Erik:D
02:39.23IriX64``Erik that last is a nice vehicle, lets pray we don't have to use it.
02:39.28louipchow'd you get the trees and grass and such?
02:39.40brlcadhandsome_evil: I don't generally promote or follow the "free but not open source" products out there, we're an open source project looking for more involvement ;)
02:40.07``Eriklouipc: I think he used blender scripts? each blade of grass is modeled
02:40.24louipcah neat
02:40.25brlcadthere's a procedural vegitation generator in brl-cad, but yeah, think he used a script found elsewhere
02:41.01handsome_evilbrlcad, you mean graphiteone-cad not opensource??
02:41.03``Erik(and irix, the vehicle is being usd right now)
02:42.02handsome_evilno problem for me... just need to find a job with free software :-D
02:42.34CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: add brep.h to the dist...
02:42.52brlcadhandsome_evil: where do you see it's open source?
02:43.17handsome_evilno i am not see :-D
02:43.24handsome_eviljust chek if that free for download
02:43.57brlcadwhich is my point, there are a handful that are "free" like them.. I mostly ignore them ;)
02:44.13brlcadI'm much more interested in improving brl-cad
02:44.20brlcadso that it can one day replace autocad ;)
02:44.29louipcwoohoo
02:44.35``Erikheh
02:44.58handsome_evilumm.. you are so idealism
02:45.09brlcadnot really, more pragmatic
02:45.19brlcadit doesn't benefit the cad industry to support them
02:45.35brlcadwe all benefit by unifying efforts towards a project/goal
02:45.40handsome_evila) You must use the Licensed Software only for either private, educational or research, but not for commercial usage.
02:45.48louipcwhat bothers me most is proprietary formats
02:45.52handsome_evilohh..... god...
02:45.58brlcadbrl-cad's got the most headway of any project by a very long ways (in the CAD domain at least)
02:46.22brlcadheh, you wanted commercial usage, didn't you ;)
02:46.32handsome_evilthat a wonderfull dream, as my dream
02:47.04brlcadeven with our 20+ year lead, there's still massive ways to go to be functionally competitive
02:47.04handsome_evilbrcad, yes i do
02:47.04handsome_evil:(
02:47.07handsome_evilhuh... i am a dead man
02:47.32brlcadlearn brl-cad, use rtedge to generate the line drawings, annotate using gimp ;)
02:47.50louipcI know first hand that a lot of companies just pirate software
02:48.23handsome_evilno one can accept drafter job with no 2d drafting presentation here..
02:48.54brlcadyou said you tried qcad?
02:49.05brlcadit's at least "functional" albeit mildly painful
02:50.24handsome_evili just see of qcad
02:50.24handsome_evilnot realy try
02:50.24handsome_evilbut bad interface
02:50.24handsome_evilmay be i must using qcad now
02:51.23brlcadqcad is about "as good as it gets" for open source -- it's not pretty but it should do the job
02:51.31handsome_evilif using the gimp for 2d drafting, people will be doubt about the scale..
02:51.31handsome_evilhow ever i still interest to learn brlcad now
02:51.34louipchandsome_evil: it's at least as good as solidworks' dwgeditor :P
02:52.08brlcadhmm.. maybe solidworks is just rewrapping qcad... hmmm!
02:52.39louipchmm
02:52.53brlcadthere was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off since
02:53.26IriX64did the door hit them in the arse on the way out ;)
02:53.38brlcadwe have a (lame) sketch editor that is used for editing sketch primtives, that could easily invoke qcad instead
02:53.45louipcoh wow, wonder what came of that
02:54.13handsome_evil??? brl-cad support qcad??
02:54.19Twingybrlcad, I modified the captcha code and no more spammers, http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/profile.php?mode=register&sid=b748de68a4c350844d1026bdc4a6ec99
02:54.32brlcadTwingy: swank
02:54.36louipccool
02:54.47brlcadhandsome_evil: I don't really care about them, but if you're looking for drafting, they do that better than we do
02:55.18brlcadi've got no problems being open about our weaknesses
02:55.28handsome_evilbrlcad: there was someone interested and working on integrating qcad with brl-cad, since we do talk a common format, but they wandered off since >> i confused with this sentence
02:56.03handsome_evilwhat is mean integrating??
02:56.03brlcadthere was an individual here in the channel a while ago that wanted drafting features similar to what you want
02:56.06IriX64Twingy... should add to that "and also any applicable laws where *you live"
02:56.17brlcadintegrating: making the two work together cleanly
02:56.29TwingyIriX64, for what purpose?
02:56.37handsome_eviloh.. i see
02:56.41IriX64cover as many bases as possible.
02:56.49Twingyhuh?
02:57.03IriX64whats legal here may be illegal there and vice vers.
02:57.06brlcadso if you wanted drafting, you would get a (clean) subset of qcad .. if you wanted solid modeling, or use that drafting sketch in a solid model, you'd have brl-cad
02:57.53brlcadIriX64: that intro is required in the US
02:58.14IriX64doesn't mean you can't add to it. or does it?
02:58.38brlcadit's a website, you could do anything to it
02:58.47brlcadput little floating penis's if you wanted
02:59.35brlcadas the host of a public forum on the web, though, if you want to protect your arse from legal action, you have to at least ask if they're underage
02:59.52brlcadit only matters really if they click the second link
03:00.11IriX64of course, we had one site here wanting photcopies of your drivers licence.
03:00.46IriX64little more overhead but it could pay off.
03:00.46brlcadTwingy: what exactly did you modify?  just a different pattern?
03:01.22Twingydifferent noise pattern and image size
03:01.41brlcadany modification that's "custom" is pretty sufficient to ward off the spammers presuming there's not a captcha like that elsewhere
03:01.42Twingyto add special characters would require working knowledge of the gzip algorithm
03:03.41brlcadafter you get some users and spammer attempts, i'd be curious to know how many get through
03:04.32brlcadsome should still get through, as they are humans with that as some sort of day job from what I have seen
03:05.26brlcadwe get maybe 2-4 a month now on bz's (with hundreds of attempts per day)
03:05.38MaloeranHumans reading and typing captcha all day long, that seems like a productive existence to benefit humanity...
03:06.03brlcadbz's has a special additional input box that asks .. "what's the name of this game?"
03:06.37``Erikehehehe kinda like lisp.paste.org's captcha? "what language is this pastebin written in?" with the answer right there? :D
03:06.41brlcadI'd be really impressed if someone automated a response that can correctly answer that
03:06.50``Eriker
03:06.53``Erikpaste.lisp.org rather
03:07.05brlcaddoes wonders to stop the spam
03:07.10MaloeranJust wait for this AI to have a larger knowledge base, to put any question into its right context... :)
03:07.20brlcadbut alas they still make it through, which leads be to believe they are people
03:07.55brlcadi've seen some sites with things like "what is the number on [this] page?" that you have to go to and hunt for
03:08.21``Erikman, I remember shit like that on video games as piracy protection
03:08.23brlcadas it is, you'd be surprised how many people actually get "what's the name of this game?" wrong... ;-)
03:08.35MaloeranAh yes Erik, that was horrible!
03:08.39``Erikbattle zone! uh... flag...
03:08.59brlcadif the answer has a bz or flag anywhere in the answer, it lets you by
03:08.59``Erikwhat's the third word of the second paragraph on page 44?
03:09.01MaloeranIt was very easy to fix generally though, just a single jcc opcode
03:09.01``Erik"the"
03:09.26brlcadyet every month about two people e-mail saying they don't know what to put there (in kiddie lingo)
03:09.48``Erikat least with pirates, it was semi-interesting... "what month was the silver train in vera cruz in 1640?"
03:11.07IriX64jcc?
03:11.19MaloeranAny conditional jump, jxx if you prefer
03:11.25brlcad"Do girls really have cooties?"
03:11.43IriX64heh like jc jnc jnz etc?
03:11.45brlcad"All politicians are: a) hard-working, b) honest, or c) on the public payroll" - the answer to which is c).
03:11.52MaloeranRight, IriX64
03:11.59IriX64ty
03:13.38IriX64bout to try this whole pix2png thing.
03:14.15IriX64pix-png i mean.
03:14.35``Erikmal: have you seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OISC
03:15.01CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: define void if it's not so we don't bail out, even though this version of tcl will be disappearing soon
03:16.02MaloeranIndirectly I did, Erik, yes
03:16.33MaloeranThe program is entirely stored in the data instead, which... is pretty much the same
03:17.15MaloeranYou could say that processors only execute one instruction, which is to fetch the next sequence of bytes and act upon its value. Oh well
03:23.41Twingybrlcad, check out my captcha now, added a pattern
03:24.09Twingyargyle type deal
03:24.30CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtcl/generic/regex.h: also define const just so we don't fail compilation
03:24.31brlcadheh
03:25.00brlcadconfirmation code.. XXXXXXX8WWS3V
03:25.05Twingyhehe
03:25.29Twingyyou'd have to be kinda retarded to do that :)
03:26.10brlcadnext to animate it!
03:26.18brlcadlittle bouncing gif
03:26.32Twingypath traced objects
03:26.37brlcada spinning beachball
03:26.51brlcadfloating penis's
03:26.54TwingyYMCA guys spelling out captchas
03:26.57MaloeranMultiple overlapping transparent png pictures and each reveal a piece of character!
03:27.03Twingywith floating penis's
03:27.08Twingythat'd be super gay
03:27.08MaloeranPlus, you will filter out all IE users with broken png support
03:27.12brlcadin chaps
03:27.35Twingyyes, don't forget the chaps
03:27.35Twingyand indian head dress
03:27.39Twingyand peanut' buttah' jelly time guys in the back ground
03:28.08brlcadand hopping chocolate eggs
03:28.27brlcadbeing eaten by badgers
03:28.28Twingywith emit brown from back to the feature for good measure
03:28.36Twingy*future
03:29.35Twingyfollowed by a partial differential equation they have to solve in 3 seconds
03:30.09Twingybut it's presented as a jumbogram
03:30.14Twingyjumblegram rather
03:30.36Twingyas long as it's not overly complicated it should work just fine
03:31.01louipchahah
03:31.06Twingy10:30, it's running time, bbl
03:50.06IriX64supposed to keel when you see that :)
03:50.12IriX64kneel too.
03:50.40MaloeranAnd this was translated, Elizabeth II holds the copyright on french speaking pages of the Quebec government in Canada
03:51.47IriX64really?
03:51.56IriX64how far back are you going?
03:52.45MaloeranHum? I'm not following
03:53.01IriX64how old are these documents?
03:53.09MaloeranVery recent
03:53.20IriX64and they still add that?
03:54.03MaloeranI never saw this before, apparently they still do
04:06.32louipcThey're still part of Canada however much they complain.
04:07.19MaloeranI'm fine with that, I'm less fine with the queen of England holding copyright on all government publications
04:08.02louipcI don't know why we don't shrug her off already
04:09.11louipcShe keeps someone in charge here called the Governor General, who appoints the Prime Minister
04:09.28louipcit's more of a useless ceremonial thing
04:11.33IriX64Maloeran: Tell them they have to read every line :)
04:12.42IriX64louipc did you get it to compile?
04:12.55IriX64i was away for a bit.
04:12.57louipcyep, and install
04:13.11IriX64does it run well on your system?
04:13.33louipcIriX64: haven't tested it much, but I ran into a problem with archer
04:13.43IriX64btw your os being?
04:13.48louipclinux
04:14.06IriX64mged performs?
04:14.07louipcI'm making packages for as much stuff in other/ as I can
04:14.39louipcmged works enough.. the help manual doesn't come up still I have to figure that out
04:14.51louipcsomething to do with $mged_browser something
04:14.56IriX64there are docs in share i think.
04:14.59Maloeranlouipc, is archer complaining about some BLT thing?
04:15.27MaloeranI just wanted to confirm as I encountered what I guess is the same problem
04:15.43louipcMaloeran: I didn't get that far it was one of the other TCL extensions though
04:16.13louipcI think... could have been blt
04:16.34IriX64try it for him louipc ill do the same.
04:18.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/365701 < === problem here.
04:18.23louipcnope, just can't find itcl.tcl just a path thing I think
04:18.55IriX64the archer window came up though but all greyed out
04:19.47brlcadmged_browser is the problem, it doesn't search very hard for an html viewer
04:20.14brlcadknown issue, just nobody has gotten to fixing it yet
04:20.21IriX64Maloeran: I know little flying penis's about tcl ;)
04:20.23brlcadonly affects some platforms
04:20.30IriX64ty
04:20.39louipcbrlcad: that's my first target after packages ;)
04:20.59brlcadcool :)
04:23.35Twingyback
04:27.09IriX64startup script? Is there a standard name for a startup tcl script?
04:28.36louipcthat error message doesn't tell much hm
04:28.51IriX64gives a line number....
04:29.47IriX64i can't do much with it but the people who know prolly can.
04:30.10brlcad.mgedrc?
04:30.24IriX64?
04:30.37IriX64thats the startup script?
04:30.40brlcadooh, you're trying to run archer
04:30.41brlcadnever mind
04:30.51IriX64heh ty
04:31.18brlcadi did say earlier that archer needs a bit of compilation tweaking to get working, it's not going to work out of the box on any system at the moment
04:31.37brlcadit's not even been officially announced as ready to use
04:32.05IriX64was just trying to help Maloeran.
04:32.09louipcoh is archer the next GUI you mentioned?
04:32.24brlcadlouipc: no it's not, but it's somewhere between the two
04:32.35louipcah alright
04:32.44brlcadhas some really good ideas, and if anything shows what mged could be like
04:34.24brlcadyou're more than welcome to work on archer, heck I'll give anyone commit access if they're serious about working on it
04:35.14brlcadi'm just not going to help much since it's on the todo list to fix it later already, and I'm trying to push a release out with different updates ;)
04:35.25brlcadother than to say "good luck with that" =)
04:35.35louipc:D
06:11.10IriX64gcc 4.1.1 also qualifies as lots and lots of code :)
06:11.27IriX64to compile I mean.
06:18.53IriX64you think i would have learned my lesson about the latest and greatest thing by now :)
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14:36.52MaloeranAh! They finally received the memory for the 8 cores box
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17:45.25``Erikmrph.
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18:45.26brlcad``Erik: did you modify any of the apache modules, or apache, or libapr or something yesterday?
18:45.48brlcadhave massive httpd woes going on atm
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19:15.47clock_brlcad: do you ride snowboard?
19:17.57``ErikI don't think so, what woes?
19:18.13``Erikshow me where the breakage exhibits and I'll fix o.O
19:19.21``Erik<-- was trying to be careful not to touch web and bzflag related stuff... was avoiding the db's until noticing they're totally unused...
19:22.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: Remove ON_BREP conditional, rely on _cplusplus instead
19:32.10brlcadclock_: never tried
19:34.54``Erikah, creating an account seems to do it
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19:54.47brlcad``Erik: it looks like anything via php that tries to kick off an e-mail
19:56.18brlcad``Erik: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/emailtest.php  this will consistently crash it
19:59.07``Erikokie, thnx
20:04.10brlcadI believe that same crash happens when php || httpd are compiled sans -pthread
20:04.27brlcadsome wierd interaction goes on
20:31.36``Erikuhhhhh
20:35.19brlcadfyi, if you hadn't noticed already, there are scripts running that watch and talk to apache to ensure that it's running and that a botnet hasn't somehow attached -- if you kill it without a restart, it'll get restarted on it's own within a minute or two
20:35.38brlcadwhich is just to say that if you need it to go down and stay down, you'll have to turn off the script
20:35.49brlcad(i'll do it if you need that)
20:36.45``ErikI've been bouncing it pretty quick... butseperate versions of apache were trying to run at the same time (I think)
20:40.48``Erikdamn this is an old fbsd, I'm forgettin' if the gotchas have changed, heh
20:40.56MaloeranHum, let's try a hackish manual installation
20:41.42Maloerannew box, that is
20:44.48``Erikwell, yeah, obviously
20:44.57``Erikbut I forget which gotchas went away and which were introduced after 512
20:44.58``Erik521
20:48.13brlcadfrom ports perspective, -pthread is the one that I have to watch for and hand-tweak
20:48.43brlcadiirc apache's configure actually ignores the flags and does it's own thing so you might have to abort and hand-tweak
20:54.13brlcadyes, I'd love to upgrade
20:54.28brlcadif I ever take a road trip down south, I might do it ;)
20:54.53brlcadif I didn't have such a sweet deal on bandwidth, I'd get a second server with 6.2 and just migrate
20:56.01brlcadbut their current plans only offer a third of the bandwidth I currently get and a few bucks more expensive to boot
20:56.04``Erikit's not that far away, it's just down in man-asses, va, right?
20:56.10brlcaddon't care about the money, but the bandwidth is teh suck
20:56.25brlcadheh, va??  what gave you that idea?
20:56.39``Erikreverse lookup?
20:56.52brlcadout on the pan handle
20:57.07brlcadsoaking up ze rays
20:57.57brlcadany luck with that backtrace?  when I tried, it was mostly useless garbage
20:58.03``Erikgarbage, but mentioned apr
20:58.10``Erikso I fixed up a new apr to shove in
20:59.33``Erikah, woops, wrong #, was lookin' at my dns server, hurrrr
21:00.18brlcadcoupled with some 5.2 pthread bad behavior
21:03.38brlcadyeah, I have a similar bug in there with the php folks
21:03.49brlcadI think I let it close after they made "some" attempt at a fix
21:07.23``Erikwhat the holy crap did they do
21:07.34brlcadhttp://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=37120
21:08.32brlcadso yeah, still a php bug.. but related to pthread misbehavior on that apr subprocess
21:09.14brlcadgetting that trace was a bitch
21:09.43brlcadwhat version is in ports now?
21:10.05``Erikof what, apache? 2.2.4
21:12.25brlcadphp
21:12.42``Erik5.2.1 I think
21:13.08``Erikyeah
21:15.36``Erikdid you hook dan up with his latest brl-cad issue?
21:16.17brlcadi think I fixed that yesterday
21:16.33``Erikhm, he sent it an hour ago
21:16.34``Erikheh
21:17.24brlcadi'll look again, but trying not to get distracted too far from auto_path bits as that is going to be a big change that'll impact him too
21:32.22``Erikhrm, apache and php5 have both been rebuild with the pthread modification...
21:32.28``Erikstill does it...
21:33.28``Erikwhat's the watcher script?
21:36.29``Erikah, ya already turned it off
21:39.59``Erikscrew it
21:40.07``ErikI backed out the changes, it's not throwing sig6 anymore
21:43.42IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/366733    < === Maloeran, this is mine :)
21:45.18``Erikjust one?
21:46.05MaloeranThe real question is how well the 1066mhz memory bus will cope with the 8 cores, they still got 4mb of L2 cache each
21:48.12archivist386's should be enough
21:48.46``Erikwell, ya want the machines fast enough that the link between 'em has some penalty associated...
21:48.54louipcwhat's with openNURBS wanting your email to download?
21:50.53IriX64this ones data because its an unrecognized operand, so we'll put it in the data cache as opposed to the instruction cache.
21:50.54MaloeranErik, amusingly, 1066mhz/8 is about the memory bus that early Pentium had
21:51.10MaloeranI can only hope that each core is not going to access ram as intensively, with the 4mb cache... or performance is going to be truly pathetic
21:55.11IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/366744  <=== anybody know what this is trying to tell me, I'm not familiar with such runtime errors.
22:00.11MaloeranThat errno is Connection reset by peer
22:00.37IriX64Maloeran, mine?
22:01.33IriX64happened again.
22:01.49IriX64trying to map m35.
22:04.11IriX64started from scratch, lets see if it can do a normal view.
22:21.49IriX64its not me, does it everytime.
22:26.21IriX64worms eye view of ktank, nice :)
22:27.07IriX64you people should make that a standard view, worm's eye view, birds eye view,...
22:34.20brlcad``Erik: turned what off?
22:35.00brlcadi'm impressed that you could actually back that far out.....
22:36.07brlcadlouipc: my guess is that, like most companies, they *really* want a bean count of how many real unique downloads there are and the numbers make managers happy
22:37.54brlcadIriX64: does the framebuffer close, remain partially rendered, or are you closing the window?
22:46.04IriX64just prints that error, does not even attempt to render it and says raytrace complete.
22:46.20IriX64all windows remain open.
22:46.38IriX64but terra.g crashes mged working on that now.
22:47.02IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/366802  whats wrong with this, keeps saying expected expression before if.
22:51.28IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/366808  << this is the error message *before i started fooling around.
22:52.43brlcadyou have a typo on line 5
22:52.48brlcadclose the bu_log
22:54.06IriX64must be blind i dont see it.
22:54.47IriX64besides my compiler points me at the if....
22:55.42brlcadlook hard
22:55.45brlcadtwo characters missing
22:58.14IriX64bu_log("BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE failed file %s, line %d\n",__FILE__,__LINE__);
22:58.18IriX64where?
23:01.50IriX64#define printx("In file %s at line%d \n",__FILE__,__LINE__);
23:01.57IriX64this i use too.
23:03.37IriX64beware __FUNCTION__ not all compilers are created equeal :)
23:04.25IriX64can use #ifndef __FUNCTION__  #define __FUNCTION__ __LINE__
23:05.11brlcadthat's not what you put in the pastebin
23:05.20brlcadso perhaps just the pastebin is wrong
23:05.46IriX64man im looking at it
23:05.55brlcadpastebin is missing );
23:06.25IriX64ahhh ic its there thouhg in the file, i must have missed with the mouse.
23:06.46IriX64soirry for the confusion.
23:11.22IriX64is BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE a function or a macro?
23:11.36IriX64gotta be a macro, sorry.
23:14.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/zlibtcl/zlibtclDecls.h: seems other versions in the 1.2 line also have voidpc
23:33.21IriX64s/__FILE__ for last ocuurence of __LINE__  :( (goof)
23:37.11CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: updating the timestamp seems to cause an empty include/brlcad_config.h.in under at least some other versions of autoconf/autoheader so disable it for now until the reason can be determined.
23:38.19IriX64where did you hide BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE?
23:39.37brlcadinclude/bu.h
23:39.45IriX64ty
23:42.51IriX64that signature, has it ever been changed since the databases were designed?
23:51.43IriX64thats not whats crashing mged.
23:54.19IriX64mapped file open failed everytime i browse geometry, when i e something it crashes.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070222

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070222

00:00.23IriX64could it be a bug in asc2g?
00:01.02IriX64still mged should *not crash.
00:24.40``Erikbrlcad: I saw a script in /etc/crontab for checking apache that was commented out...
00:27.48``Erikand of course I could back that far out, I'm a fuckin' pro
00:27.57``Erik*duck*
00:49.27*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
00:52.43IriX64two instances of gcc consumes cpu.
00:54.42IriX64why don't they build disk interface (and disks to go with them ) that allow a request of more data while data xfer is already in progress? sort of like full duplex communications.
00:55.38IriX64eliminate the disk bottleneck or at least reduce it.
00:57.34IriX64sharability test is going well.
00:58.04``Erikthey, uh
00:58.04``Erikdo
00:58.06``Erikthey're called scsi
00:58.32``Eriksata's are starting to do a lot of the fu, too
00:58.37``Erik<-- does all the time
00:58.42``Erikalso; I like doing make -j
00:58.45``Erikwit hsome big number
00:58.57Twingymake -justin
00:59.16Twingybase 26 :D
00:59.28``Erikthat'd be a fairly big number there :D
00:59.31IriX64err +18
01:00.16``Erikhmmmm, still not southpark season :/
01:00.38IriX64victoria secret season tho :)
01:07.45IriX64on the other hand it gives the cpu a rest waiting on disk.
01:14.22``Erikyeah, cpu's just love thermal shock
01:16.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/366985  < somethings wonky with my load avg :(
01:16.49IriX64``Erik they stay warm for quite some time especially if you provide a woolen coat :)
01:18.22IriX64ahh i remember, they don't know about each other.
01:20.12IriX64hahah xterm says the same thing.
01:35.31IriX64msg ``Erik you like png? I'll give you png, check incoming. :)
01:35.58IriX64how do i recover from that :(
01:36.35IriX64and here I thought finangle passed me by sigh.
01:38.28louipcit takes me like 2hrs to compile brlcad :P
01:39.35IriX64*ahem* let's get back on topic, soon as BRL-CAD finishes installing i'm going to see about something.
01:39.53IriX64ahh thankyou for putting me back on topic louipc.
01:39.56IriX64:)
01:40.13IriX642hrs, mines about 1hr.
01:40.18louipcno prob
01:40.37IriX64you enable-almost-everything too?
01:40.59louipcI'm running PIII 866 MHz 384MB RAM
01:41.08louipcI enable optimized
01:41.09louipcthat's it
01:41.21IriX64and it takes 2hrs?
01:41.43louipcyeaaah I have an old computer
01:42.06IriX64overclocked obviously.
01:42.15louipcnope I don't do that
01:42.26IriX64then why 866?
01:42.59louipcbecause that's what I bought 6yrs ago :D
01:43.07IriX64heh.
01:43.25louipcyeah I need to upgrade hm?
01:44.06louipcIt'll be such of a jump, my head will probably spin off
01:44.26IriX64do it from parts its cheaper, the video you can probably retain.
01:45.08louipcI think the gfx got wonked in a storm, or my monitor
01:45.40louipcbuilding from parts is never cheaper for me. I try to put in good stuff
01:46.33louipcbut I wouldn't do it any other way
01:47.11louipc!?
01:47.32louipcwhere do you get such a thing?
01:47.38MaloeranStill installing base software for my new toy
01:47.48MaloeranJust bought it, received today
01:48.24louipcwhere'd you buy that from?
01:48.56IriX64:)
01:49.30MaloeranWhat do you mean, louipc? I ordered the pieces at some local shop.. which is surely not available where you live
01:50.02louipcah alright
01:50.14louipcI think the most I can get is 4 cores
01:51.25MaloeranClovertown chips are 4 cores, put two on the same motherboard. Or you can put 2-4 dual-core opterons
01:51.32louipcah I see
01:51.53louipcyeah I'd like 2 cpus
01:52.46MaloeranThe thing is fairly noisy, but as much as my old overclocked AMD64 in a home-made plexiglass case with two 160mm 110V fans
01:53.44MaloeranThere weren't any board that allowed overclocking of Clovertown chips, so there was no reason to motivate any exotic case building...
02:00.10IriX64ermf add too.
02:02.14IriX64whats the "proper" way to reinstall just one component of BRL-CAD when you toy with the individual pieces?
02:03.35``Erikin the dir of the thing you mucked with, type "make install"
02:03.41IriX64ahhhh louipc this should work make -changed_only install right? :)
02:05.22``Erikno can do, gubmint properties
02:05.36``Erikalso; you couldn't handle the sheer awesomeness of fbsd
02:05.37``ErikO:-)
02:05.47IriX64if i lived there i'd say well i'm a taxpayer :)
02:06.46IriX64say ``Erik, has Gionnini been around lately?
02:07.22``Erikwhowhathuh?
02:07.31IriX64;)
02:08.21IriX64Navy peron don't worry bout it.
02:08.27IriX64person too.
02:10.58IriX64freebsd eh?
02:11.18IriX64its free for a reason. (duck)
02:13.58``Erikuh, yes, because it has one of the most liberal licenses in existance... that's where the name comes from...
02:14.19``Erikbecause jolitz was being a cockbite with bsd386
02:14.58IriX64lucky for you we're not in meixed company, ermf am i sure of that?
02:15.03IriX64mixed too.
02:15.17``Erikand the whole at&t lawsuit thing that resulted in much rewriting of old code
02:15.31``Erikresulting in bsd4.4lite
02:15.49IriX64I've never had the pleasure of fbsd ``Erik, is it that good?
02:16.02``ErikI like it *shrug*
02:16.40``Erikfbsd is the 'unix' part of macosX, to boot
02:16.52IriX64why did thet go away from the .exe thing?
02:16.57``Erikuhhh
02:16.59``Erikaway from?
02:17.21``Erikbsd predates cp/m and qdos (later brandraped to be msdos) by quite a bit
02:17.26louipcMaloeran: you have Intel chips?
02:17.36IriX64freebsd stuff ive seen uses no extension, i assume it uses both relying on the signature in the file like most others true or false
02:17.40IriX64?
02:17.48``Erikno, it relies mostly on the permissions of the file
02:17.51``Erikit's a unix
02:18.14IriX64execute visavisa data, that thing.
02:18.46IriX64does that shield you though from DEP?
02:18.54IriX64err drop the p
02:19.07``Erik'DE'?
02:19.27IriX64data execution, ive read a bit about data execution prevention.
02:20.01MaloeranYes louipc, AMD hasn't released their quad-cores yet..
02:20.09``Erikyeah, uh, that's something else... and very protected in some variants of bsd... obsd being the most aggressive, with the w^x paging
02:20.11IriX64DEP to help protect your system from malicious code.
02:20.11louipcIriX64: same in linux, executables usually have no extension
02:20.33IriX64ahh ty
02:21.18louipcMaloeran: ah I didn't think that you'd go for those
02:21.27``Erikand usually it's called injection, and usually done via a stack smash
02:22.04MaloeranI'm all AMD usually, Intel's latest chips are supposed to be decent
02:29.27TwingynumaPIC
02:29.44``Eriknumanumanumanuma
02:29.51TwingyDEY TUK R JBS!
02:30.01``Erikthat'd be, like, the geekiest 'badger' song ever
02:30.59TwingyI'll tell you what, this twin engine plane is the most addictive thing ever
02:31.16TwingyI ran into some one else flying an electric at the high school this evening
02:31.27Twingybeing about to fly < 1 mile from my house is awesome :)
02:32.18``Erikpretty fast?
02:32.32Twingymoderately
02:32.36Twingybut it sounds awesome
02:32.45``Erikheh
02:32.47Twingymain reason why I haven't gone electric yet
02:32.50``Erikswap off htose mufflers for tuned pipes :D
02:32.53Twingyjust doesn't sound the same
02:33.10TwingyI usually fly at 1/2 throttle
02:33.18Twingybut when you open it up it's very much a 3D plane
02:33.55Twingystarting both engines up is no big deal either
02:33.59``Erikcool
02:34.01Twingytakes about a minute
02:34.09``Erikare they bothing feeding off the same fuel tank?
02:34.09TwingyI might swap out the 4oz tanks for 6oz ones
02:34.14``Erikah, seperate
02:34.23Twingy4oz tanks == 10-12 minute flights
02:34.38Twingysince you've only got 0.25 FX's drawing off them
02:35.01TwingyI've got a pair of 0.46 LA's I don't know what to do with yet
02:35.16Twingyneed to get gerber junk into gcam
02:35.52``Erik.46's would make a fairly big twin
02:36.13Twingyyep
02:36.19Twingywe've got like 100 0.60
02:36.23Twingy0.60's at work
02:36.32Twingythose'd make it move :)
02:37.06``Erikhehehe
02:37.07TwingyI might just buy a 0.60-0.90 plane and build that up
02:37.18Twingysince I have 2 receivers and xmitters now
02:37.29``Erikhm, still on the island?
02:37.47Twingyhttp://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHCR7&P=0
02:37.49Twingybought that
02:37.57Twingyshould be here next week
02:38.13Twingyyou can set it to any channel
02:38.16Twingyno crystal
02:38.19``Erikcool
02:38.40Twingyyes, in fact spent half the day testing the autopilot
02:38.44``Erikmy futabu 6ch uses a crystal :/
02:38.50``Erikfutuba
02:38.58Twingyhehe
02:38.59Twingyfu tabu
02:39.13Twingybrian hates the futabas
02:39.17Twingyhe's all JR
02:39.26TwingyI'm liking hitech stuff
02:39.26``Erikbah
02:39.30brlcad``Erik: yeah, I disabled the script just in case
02:39.41TwingyI haven't had one of those in some time
02:40.01Twingyprobly 8 months ago
02:40.08``Erikaaanyways, if you get a little free time, you should take a few of us out to the island to show us your toys :)
02:40.34Twingyprobably 2 weeks from now might be good
02:40.44TwingyI might have some neat stuff to demonstrate
02:40.52``Erikcool
02:41.46Twingywe just got a box of neat stuff that will allow me to finish building my neat stuff
02:41.55``Erikcheck this out... I had to update the fire escape maps... to mark the SIP rooms... so I did that... NOW the fucktard wants me to verify that the symbol I chose is ok for that map. ffs.
02:42.12Twingyyou gotta get out of there...
02:42.15``Erikno shit
02:42.20Twingywhy won't you listen to me :)
02:42.31Twingystop sitting with your thumb up your butt and move
02:43.03Twingyif I were you 'd be making phone calls left and right to CISD and HRED
02:43.07``Erik<-- is putting effort towards it, installed latex on his machine so he can work on his resume o.O then got sidetracked *cough*
02:43.19Twingyoutside or inside ARL?
02:43.19``Erikhm, I've heard less than thrilling things about cisd lately
02:43.37TwingyCISD does alot of neat stuff with comms
02:44.48``ErikI kinda sorta miss industry treatment... I mean, free coffee and tea are kinda minimal things... free popcorn, soda, and lunches are out there... total flex time, ...
02:45.49TwingyI like the job security until I can start my own company
02:45.49``Erikno hassle telecommute, ...
02:46.02``Erikyeah, that's kinda the big thing that has kept me here, heh
02:46.08Twingyplus some of the stuff I'm working with costs more than my house
02:47.03Twingybefore you leave, I'd highly recommend finding a position that is < 50% mission funded
02:47.16Twingythat actually makes a huge difference
02:47.41Twingy< 50% mission typically means 6.0 and 6.1 funding plus independent research
02:48.21TwingyMaloeran, for the umpteenth million time, sucky management
02:48.48``Erik*nod* in industry, the place would've gotten a serious gutting and had most if not all mgmt replaced
02:49.03Twingyyou got back 10 years and where I was / where erik currently is was a hot spot
02:49.18MaloeranBy the way Justin, when I said to Mark you suggested to look into engineering, architecture and medical applications for the raytracer... He suggested to sit down us three and talk about it.  I don't think you'll be interested but I'm forwarding the message
02:49.22``Erik5, even
02:50.08TwingyMaloeran, let me sleep on it
02:50.12MaloeranSure
02:50.26TwingyI started running again, got the juices flowing
02:51.00MaloeranEheh, sounds good. I'm really getting lazy lately, I have so few needs for locomotion
02:51.17TwingyI'll run after work for the next couple of months
02:51.44Twingymy brain spews out clever ideas when running
02:52.32MaloeranNeat. It doesn't happen to me when running, it happens when coming back to idle on the sofa for 10 minutes, exhausted
02:52.47Twingyah, that's when stomach kicks in and wants 10lbs of pasta
02:52.54MaloeranEheh, that too
02:53.10Twingymmm triptophan
02:53.29Twingythe sleepy happy make you feel good chemical
02:54.01Twingygot 15k rpm disks in it?
02:54.25MaloeranEheh quite not, it's only geared towards computations
02:55.41Twingybet they'd increase compile speed by 10-20%
02:55.56TwingyMaloeran, setup a ram disk
02:55.59Twingycompile on that
02:56.24Maloeran*nods* I'm more looking forward to testing raytracing
02:57.02TwingyI've probly spent $800 on r/c stuff in the last 2 months
02:57.34Maloeranr/c?
02:58.34Twingyradio control
02:58.50Twingyhaven even started dumping money on the electronics for the rocket yet
02:58.57Twingybut I got the shopping list ready
02:59.56MaloeranAh. I spent 4000USD on that box, but I don't do that too often
03:01.03``Erikdayamn
03:01.42``Erik<-- spent like $700 on his laptop, like $400 on his last x86
03:01.50TwingyI figure the gyros, accelerometers, gps, and modem alone will cost me $150
03:02.01``ErikI'm, like, moving towards kermit behavior, I guess :D
03:02.04MaloeranAnd how much on that car, Erik? :)
03:02.11``Erikerm
03:02.15``Erika bit more than 4k
03:02.22Twingyhow many gigglehurts is it
03:02.30``Erikwell
03:02.44``Erikthe last one has some giggles, and then some hurts... not at the same time, though
03:02.49``Erikhad
03:02.59Maloeran8 * 1.6ghz of the latest Intel Xeon chip, improved server-grade Core 2
03:03.03``Erikso far,t his one is just giggles, no hurts yet, hopefully won't get there :)
03:03.11TwingyI don't think I ever saw what happened to the last one
03:03.23``Erikother than the sharp stabbing pain in my right buttcheek, where my wallet sits
03:03.40``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/
03:03.49``Erikcamera is fucked up
03:04.15MaloeranWas it really just some patch of grass? That's what you said at the time, doubts remain..
03:04.21Twingyyou killed the car
03:04.33``Erikthe grass got me sliding without control
03:04.36Twingyyou hit a patch of grass?
03:04.39``Eriktwo trees got it rolling
03:04.44``Erikthen slide across the road upside down
03:04.49Twingyhow do slide out of control on a patch of grass?
03:04.50``Erikand hit an embankment and two more trees
03:04.59Twingywere you doing one of your crazy 0 - mach3 stunts?
03:05.04``Erikthen came to rest on the road on the passenger side
03:05.07MaloeranThat's some fearful grass.. It's the first step I find difficult to imagine
03:05.22``Erikleft curve over a crest, got the right wheels in the grass in a ditch...
03:05.35Twingyok
03:05.38Twingyyou were on a road
03:05.42Twingyyou started accelerating
03:05.48Twingythen grass came out of nowhere?
03:05.58MaloeranWere you speeding or accelerating too fast?..
03:06.00``Erikno, level speed, and I was just running too wide
03:06.13``Erikand dicking with my phone *cough*
03:06.13Twingyrunning too wide? what's that mean
03:06.35``Erikuh, driving too close to the shoulder?
03:06.43``Erikand not turning in tight enough?
03:06.44``Erikheh
03:07.03MaloeranAh, so there's a cell phone factor involved *nods*
03:07.03``Erik<-- may not have exactly been completely below the speed limit
03:07.20Twingyand, if you don't mind me asking, how much did the insurance cover?
03:07.40``Erikquite a bit
03:07.45Twingyall of it?
03:07.54``Erikum, less a grand or two
03:08.08Twingyguess those high insurance rates paid off
03:08.26``Erikheh, yeah
03:08.28Twingymy insurance is set to like bottom of the barrel
03:08.35Twingylike $121/mo
03:08.39Twingyfor like $15k coverage
03:08.39``Erikthen I got a letter saying my insurance was going up seventeen point something %
03:08.57Twingyso they are going to get their money back from insurance
03:08.58``Erikand got the fee, went DOWN a fair bit
03:09.34``Erik<-- was paying ~169/mo, now paying 135/mo for jacked up %'s on a sports car with a total and two tickets...
03:09.39Twingydid you get any money for the scrap?
03:09.42``Erikno
03:09.48Twingyhow come?
03:09.56``Erikthey own it when they pay it off
03:10.01Twingyah
03:10.09``Erikto get my insurance check, I handed over keys and signed the title over
03:10.27TwingyI woulda took a few parts
03:10.30MaloeranEheh, keys were a nice symbolic gesture
03:10.34``ErikI have a few parts in my basement
03:10.37``Erikand one of the keys
03:10.57Twingyin case you want to break into the pile of scrap iron
03:11.02``Erikunfortunately, I took the bmw emblem, not the fucking m3 emblem :/
03:11.41``Erik*shrug* I kinda miss the blue
03:12.20``Erikbut the one I have now is less conspicuous and a little sportier (shortthrow shifter, aluminum pedals (GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY CAR, TWINGY), dvd nav, ...)
03:12.37``Erikum, miguel in wmrd bought a laguna seca m3 after seeing mine
03:12.39TwingyI got more aluminum than I know what to do with
03:12.47``Erikhe parks behind 390
03:12.53TwingyI'm very very close to cutting the first prototype motor
03:12.57``Eriksweet
03:13.14TwingyI almost have the jig finished cutting from MDF
03:13.16``ErikI'm eager to see a sketch or model or even description of what makes it special :)
03:13.43Twingywhat makes it special is it's KISS simplicity
03:13.43``Erikand if ya want a pencil jockey to crunch formulas or numbers, lemme know :D
03:14.16Twingyone of those why didn't I think of that deals
03:14.56``Erik<-- thinks he gets more of a kick out of the theoretical side and crunching data than the machining
03:15.14``Erikthough test burns are cool...
03:16.06TwingyI'm actually looking forward to the first round of tests
03:16.18Twingythis will be new territory for me
03:16.27``Erikwhere ya gonna light things up at? sandy hook? or the school?
03:16.36Twingyprobly my garage at first
03:16.56``Erikhm
03:17.09Twingyit can't explode, so there's no real danger
03:17.09``Erikgot an ABC fire extinguisher?
03:17.15TwingyI got 2
03:17.29``Erikokie, make sure one is out in the garage when ya kick it off :)
03:18.10``Erikmy kitche one dropped below the 'green' range, so I used it out on my deck
03:18.14``Erikthat's kinda fun
03:18.22``Erikbut the yellow powder gets freakin' everywhere
03:18.39Twingythen you locked yourself outside and had to break a window to get in?
03:18.43``Erikheh, nah
03:18.47Twingy:)
03:19.01MaloeranNice Erik, that reveals an aspect of your cooking talents :)
03:19.02``Erikmy finger isn't stiched on right now, I can jump down to the ground
03:19.26``Erikwhat, that I've never had a fire extinguisher grade fire in the last 4 yrs?
03:20.20MaloeranWell, that you had to use your kitchen fire extinguisher down to below the green range
03:20.33``Erikthey are pressured, they lose pressure over time
03:20.42MaloeranOh.
03:20.45``Erikand the first time you use one, it drops below green
03:21.10``Erik<-- has never had an uncontrolled fire :)
03:21.32TwingyI've only had explosions
03:21.57``Erikyeah, but half the time, you cook rocket fuel in your kitchen :D
03:22.34TwingyI still don't know what I'm going to do with all that potassium nitrate, I will probably never make KNDX propellant again
03:22.52Twingymight just throw it in the yard for fertilizer
03:22.54``Erikmake a garden box in your back yard
03:22.58Twingyyep
03:23.20TwingyI am gonna get a tiller this summer and fix my yard
03:23.27``Erikin missouri, I had two 4x8' boxes... half of one was all green onions... whenever I made an omelete, I'd go out, pull a couple, wash 'em and slice 'em up
03:23.28TwingyI've got the worst fucking soil
03:23.30``Erikgood stuff
03:23.35``Erikhey, at least you HAVE soil
03:23.39``Erikhafl my back yard is clay
03:24.20Twingymine takes half an hour to dig a foot
03:24.20``Erikthe other half is stone and broken concrete
03:24.20Twingylike a fucking steam roller went over it
03:24.21Twingypisses me off
03:24.22``Erikdevelopment housing soil :(
03:24.41Twingyafter I till it I'll throw down sod
03:24.43``ErikI took my pickaxe to break up the clay some so the grass could grow through
03:24.49Twingydo a sprinkler system first
03:24.52``Erikalmost every swing was into stone with sparks flying
03:25.05Twingythen lay down a few hundred square feet of brick
03:25.48``Erikmy neighbors put down brick under their deck, took the dude a fair amount of time, said it was a LOT harder than he figured
03:26.00Twingyhe was probably doing it wrong
03:26.11TwingyI figure I'll bang it out in a few weekends
03:26.25``ErikI d'no, looked fairly stadnard to me... dug it up, put down the gravel, then started packing bricks
03:26.38Twingydidn't put sand down?
03:26.45``ErikI don't know
03:26.51``ErikI didn't pay TOO much attention... :)
03:26.55Twingygotta put down black tarp, then sand
03:27.02Twingykeeps the weeds out
03:27.16``Erikthis is snugged on the north side of the house
03:27.19``Erikgrass won't grow, just moss
03:27.36``Erikso even if he did forget the black plastic, it wouldn't be the end of the world
03:27.45TwingyI'm gonna use big stone bricks
03:28.12``Erik<-- might try something like that over the summer
03:28.50``ErikI think I want to redo my entry :/
04:00.25*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
04:02.30IriX64say can rtedge be used from the gui?
04:07.59IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/367136   <<< === it can but what am i doing wrong here?
04:14.36IriX64maybe not bldg391 faills too on this command rtedge all
04:18.33brlcadIriX64: it's like rt, just type rtedge
04:18.48IriX64ty
04:18.52brlcadan argument of havoc tells it to open a geometry file named "havoc", which does not exist
04:19.13IriX64explained thank you.
04:19.28brlcadif you run rtedge on the unix command line, you have to specify the file and geometry
04:19.45IriX64never tried that.
04:19.45brlcadon the mged command line, just e the object (or select it in the geometry browser), then run rtedge
04:19.58MaloeranAnyone knows what the Linux "migration" process is? I can't find any information on google besides being told how to migrate from windows to Linux
04:20.00IriX64got it thanks.
04:20.05brlcade or draw or whatever you use :)
04:20.16IriX64heh thanks.
04:20.32brlcadMaloeran: I think Linux migrates south for the winter around October
04:21.08IriX64heh that's geese ;)
04:21.26brlcadhttp://www.falklandsconservation.com/penguins/pengmig.html
04:21.39brlcadthey even draw you pretty pictures ;)
04:23.21MaloeranAll right, I'll be satified with answers on penguins and Linux OS migration :)
04:24.05IriX64so now i'm a penguin ;)
04:24.42MaloeranI'm used to know what every process running is, but that's a new one in the default Gentoo scripts. There's one assigned to every core, I guess it's for some kind of process/thread migration
04:26.05IriX64mct=master control thread.
04:27.09IriX64watch the default stack sizes though :)
04:30.11brlcadMaloeran: what exactly are you asking?  from what it sounds, seems like gentoo is offering you options on what processor affinity settings you want?
04:31.34brlcador how to actually do full-blown process migration between cpus in a cluster ala mosix or what?
04:32.01Maloeran8 processes named "migration" are launched by the gentoo boot scripts. They have no man pages, no documentation, and google can't tell much
04:32.17brlcadahhhh
04:32.32brlcadi totally read what you wrote differently :)
04:32.39MaloeranI realized :)
04:32.52MaloeranThe page about penguins is still interesting though
04:33.02brlcadheh, that was in jest, but even afterwards ;)
04:35.01brlcadwow, a search turns up some work mike muuss did years ago on a migration daemon
04:35.04brlcadhttp://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/papers/88bump-pit/bump.html
04:35.17brlcadtotally unrelated, but quite ironic
04:35.31brlcadwell, at least probably unrelated ..
04:36.28MaloeranCurious ideas on file system migration
04:37.25brlcadmm.. transparent file migration
04:38.02brlcada holy grail that we still don't have, a transparent global shared network file store
04:38.09MaloeranIriX64, typical master/slaves design, my raytracer works like that ; both for threads and fpr network processing
04:38.27IriX64with someone in charge?
04:38.38IriX64rt shelling it out?
04:38.54MaloeranIndeed brlcad, yet it doesn't seem so hard to implement
04:39.51MaloeranExcept for files that wouldn't fit on one single physical device and would have to be broken into pieces by the driver, that's more messy
04:40.40brlcadI know of several projects that do it, and work well
04:40.56brlcadit's more the practical issues of getting OS standardization/cooperation
04:41.43brlcadgoogle's probably in the best position to get that going actually, with the mass file stores, using machines across the internet and pseudo shared drives
04:42.02brlcadMaloeran: see which package the file belongs to, might give a lead
04:42.09brlcadepm -qf `whereis migration`
04:42.31brlcador locate or whatever to actual file
04:43.23brlcadqpkg should do the trick too
04:47.54MaloeranYes, apparently thinking that I was rewriting that, but I'm not
04:48.02MaloeranOops, nevermind
04:52.43IriX64``Erik how bigs *your fbsd BRL-CAD tar.gz? ;)
04:52.50MaloeranI never bothered to really learn the client, the first irc client I found on Linux many years ago
04:53.22IriX64my first on unix was good olle irc
04:53.33IriX64ircii
04:53.41louipcoh yeah
04:54.33brlcadirssi is the path to enlightenment
04:55.00IriX64just don't type control c on a system like mine. :)
04:57.11IriX64louipc i guess standard 60Hz what think you?
04:57.32louipcI've never owned an LCD
04:57.52louipcmy system is 6yrs old eh
04:57.56IriX64haven't got a calculator eh? ;)
04:58.16louipcoh? how do I do it?
04:58.28IriX64you tell me.
04:58.34louipcI've no clue
04:58.54louipcLCDs can't be faster than CRTs though can they?
05:00.12IriX64lcds operate on a charged pixel basis, crt, actually provide a beam to lite an entire row of pixels, lcds try to get each individually.
05:00.31MaloeranI think they have become close to equivalent in quality, hence why I tried my first LCD
05:01.12IriX64i like to open my system up, ergo i prolly will never own a laptop or notebook.
05:01.14louipcI thought it was just price... or LCDs might be cheaper now
05:01.42louipcIriX64: why not open up the notebook?
05:01.53IriX64and do what exactly?
05:01.58louipctinker
05:02.19IriX64one look convinces they should not be tinkered with.
05:03.01MaloeranLCDs still seem to have problems with the black "color", it's not quite as black as my Viewsonic CRT
05:03.35IriX64its the screen mask your seeing.
05:04.59louipclol
05:05.22MaloeranPrint your own, 5 lines of code ;)
05:10.12brlcadLCDs have exceptionally low "refresh rates" compared to CRTs and are usually in the 20-100Hz range, 60Hz is pretty common
05:10.44brlcadbut since they are "charged" as IriX64 noted, it doesn't mean nearly the same
05:11.30brlcadthere's generally no "scanline flickering" for example, as there is no scanline beam, the image just has a burn in/out time
05:12.37brlcadone of the things that can make gaming painful on crappy LCDs (and even high-end ones in general) because of image motion and high response times
05:13.10brlcadnot as much of a problem these days, most LCDs are "good enough" at the 60 Hz range
05:18.14MaloeranThis 5ms response time would be equivalent to 200hz, that's quite high
05:29.04IriX64Maloeran: why don't i just use 'g' :)
05:50.08MaloeranHum. 60 million rays per second, 100fps in 800x600
05:50.55IriX64just which laptop model is that ? ;)
05:51.44MaloeranA big heavy and noisy laptop, it's not comfortable at all sitting on my lap :)
05:51.53IriX64100fps? I get 2.8-12.0 depending.
05:52.40MaloeranThis is not the raytracer you see in BRL-CAD, I'm talking about rendering 100 full frames of first-hit per second
05:53.08IriX64was gonna comment about penguins :)
05:56.02brlcadheh, http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/7848/image001ac0.jpg
05:56.15IriX64first write loop unrolling and jump optimizations amongst other things into your compiler then recompile.
05:57.20IriX64thought that was spelled doughnuts brlcad.
06:01.23IriX64anybody with g-jack.exe, could you give me an approximate byte size?
06:03.31MaloeranI don't think you'll find a lot of people with .exe files here...
06:04.50IriX64equivelent will do.
06:08.02IriX64louipc will fbsd still run an exe file?
06:18.50brlcadtofu:~ morrison$ ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/g-jack
06:18.51brlcad-rwxr-xr-x   1 root  wheel  52860 Aug 11  2006 /usr/brlcad/bin/g-jack
06:18.53brlcad58k
06:19.01brlcader 52
06:19.06IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/   <==== looksee
06:19.09IriX64ty
06:22.02brlcadcan't imagine what that number would be useful for, comparing apples and kiwis
06:24.28IriX64I'm sorta bloated :)
06:26.34*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
07:02.59brlcadyou're probably compiled static, it's not the same comparison
07:21.00IriX64trew :)
08:16.14IriX64my "space" eh microsoft? reeks of bait, but what you gonna do? :)
09:25.50IriX64btw that pix of Mr. Brlcad came from Aberdeeen city records, when i stumbled on BRL-CAD I did a little research.
10:39.38*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
12:45.21*** join/#brlcad cad86 (n=550c4101@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:00.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/wdb.h: remove the conditional compilation of the mk_brep function
15:04.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix several bugs in the implementation of RT_MemoryArchive. remove use of dynamic_cast.
15:15.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: provide function table stubs for good behavior when openNURBS is not built
15:18.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (brep.cpp Makefile.am): provide a C stub of mk_brep when openNURBS is not built. prevent NULL breps to mk_brep
15:21.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/brep_stub.c: provide a C stub of mk_brep when openNURBS is not built.
15:26.00``Erik*yawn*
15:41.09MaloeranAnyone could use an user on a 8 cores box? Though I'm sure you guys got access to 1024 processors on a daily basis :)
15:57.42``Erikthe biggies are a hassle, but i have three 8 core opterons at my disposal... heh :D
15:58.08``Erikso unless you're loading something other than linux... O:-)
15:59.18``Erikhttp://www.cuisinenet.com/digest/breakfast/map_world.shtml
16:01.07MaloeranAhah, neat
16:03.46``Erikheh, like the old LISA, yes
16:03.53``Erikoriented the way a paper would be
16:04.15``Erikwhich is why i rail on having 'start bars' or 'docks' or whatever at the bottom instead of the side :D
16:05.05MaloeranGood point :)
16:19.43clock_Maloeran: what about 87 degrees?
16:42.17MaloeranThat could be amusing too
17:51.48``Erik87 degrees? is that like a boy band?
18:21.15CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/nmg_bool.c): add flag to silence nmg boolean eval
18:44.37*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-214.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:11.34brlcadMaloeran: I believe you can, but there's an issue with that
19:12.16brlcadthe underlying smooth anti-aliasing that X (and most graphical interfaces) does for LCD displays takes advantage of the RGB interleave
19:13.15brlcadyou end up with nasty aliasing effects if you simply tell X11/xorg to rotate the display without updating the display system to do something different for anti-aliasing
20:13.30*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:49.05*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
21:12.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=who@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
21:19.14*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056909.dsl.bell.ca)
21:24.33IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368141  <------ ``Erik I'm trying :)
21:34.31IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368154 < --- this though happens every time i try to build BRL-CAD with shared libs enabled and I *can't find it.
21:35.01IriX64--disable-shared is a workaround but...
21:39.22IriX64louipc have you tried?
21:40.08brlcadIriX64: try installing libpng on your own
21:40.35IriX64change dir to libpng and compiule and link you mean.
21:40.45IriX64compile too
21:41.02IriX64ill try that.
21:43.17IriX64an hour from now, i'm going to let this run complete (or error out) :)
21:44.02IriX64could try it on the backup tree but im leary of dinking around in there.
21:55.08IriX64ill try configuring exactly the same way and will switch to libpng.
22:03.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368180  <--- brlcad doing it that way yields this output.
22:18.28brlcadIriX64: that's not what i meant
22:18.46brlcadi meant go get libpng, compile it and install it or find a cygwin package for it
22:18.49IriX64hrmm?
22:19.21IriX64to get by it you mean, ill just run with --disable-shared but ty.
22:19.36brlcadbut your second error pastebin is actually considerably more informative
22:19.48brlcadthat shows the real error
22:20.01IriX64hope it helps.
22:20.19brlcadwell, it looks like something goofed in src/other/libz
22:20.31brlcad*** Warning: This system can not link to static lib archive ../../../src/other/l
22:20.32brlcadibz/libz.la.
22:20.37IriX64dunno, i'm not that good :)
22:20.51brlcadthere should also be a shared one in there
22:21.13IriX64ty ill check.
22:21.14brlcadwhat does this report: ls -la src/other/libz/.libs/libz*  
22:22.02IriX64no such file or directory.
22:22.27IriX64just a sec.
22:23.34IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368213
22:23.53IriX64gotta run an errand brbr well in a few minutes.
22:26.30MaloeranCan anyone confirm my assumption that laptops are as vulnerable to low temperatures as desktops, hence one shouldn't boot one which stayed a hour at -10C?
22:29.07dtidrow_workI would say yes, though that's mainly for the hard drive
22:29.25dtidrow_workI imagine that the bearings might get rather sticky at those temps
22:30.17``Eriklaptop hdd's (and fans) tend to be smaller with smaller tolerances, though, I'd imagine that'd make them more susceptable to heat contraction and expansion, no?
22:30.27``Erik<-- obviously has no clue what he's talking about :D
22:30.32``Eriklater, dudes, headin' home
22:30.35brlcadIriX64: that's rather incorrect..
22:30.41brlcadto only have the .a
22:31.11brlcadcd src/other/libz and try a make .. see if it links a libz.so or .dll or whatever it does under cygwin
22:31.52brlcadif it still doesn't make it, do a make clean there, then make again .. see if there's any message in the output as to why a shared library isn't built
22:36.47IriX64did a make clean there before i started but ill check.
22:38.02IriX64doing libz will give you the whole thing.
22:39.09IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368227
22:41.22IriX64Maloeran a cup of warm broth would do wonders for that chilly laptop :)
22:47.09IriX64btw it does .so under cygwin.
22:51.07brlcadIriX64: ls -la .libs/libz*
22:53.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368242
22:55.19IriX64mmm a teddy...err wait thats toddy ;)
22:55.27brlcadhuh
22:55.31brlcadthere it built it
22:55.48brlcadsome sort of wierd timing
22:56.01brlcadcd ../../.. && make
22:56.14brlcadlibpng should do better this time
22:57.49IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368245
22:59.41brlcadcd src/other/libpng && make clean && cd ../../.. && make
23:02.49IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368253
23:04.41brlcadhrm, that's rather useless .. ld just fails with no error
23:04.53IriX64agreed
23:05.42IriX64its not something i did i think because it did it very first build before i touched anything.
23:06.23brlcadi don't think it's anything you've done
23:06.35brlcadi think it's an environment/ld/cygwin issue
23:06.51brlcadwould have to see if there's an ld flag or something to get more verbose output
23:07.00brlcadmaybe remove the --silent libtool flag
23:07.47brlcadtry adding ./configure --enable-build-progress
23:07.57IriX64part of this is my fault, that darn error should be more informative. let me try something.
23:08.01brlcaddon't remember if that was added before 7.8.4 or after
23:08.17brlcadgrep bc_build_progress configure.ac
23:08.22brlcadit should return a line or two
23:08.56brlcadif it does, rerun configure with --enable-build-progress and see if libpng's failure is more informative
23:11.45IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368263
23:12.44brlcadheh, i don't need to see it
23:12.50brlcadjust "if it does" ....
23:13.04IriX64reconfiguring, doin a clean first.
23:16.48IriX64could it be that version number on the .so? version mismatch or something, mmm but that doesn't explaiun the undefs.
23:21.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368273
23:21.22IriX64bbiab.
23:35.23brlcadstill no error message -- looks like an ld bug to me, but that's not something I can debug easily without sitting at a console and testinging and checking lots of things
23:37.34IriX64brlcad: I agree, its got to be this .so.2.24 thing, not being handles properly, tried an eggdrop compile and i have no problem with .so modules.
23:38.21IriX64many thanks (and apologies to pastebin.ca for cluttering them up )
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070223

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070223

00:04.36``ErikIriX64 ... .exe files are PF executables, fbsd uses ELF or QMAGIC executables... there's no way it can run..
00:05.49IriX64im from missourrii , show me.
00:06.00``Erik... go hop on a linux or freebsd box
00:06.04``Erikand try to run a windows executable.
00:06.07``Erikwithout using an emulator.
00:06.12``Erikthen you'll be shown
00:06.41IriX64$ uptime
00:06.41IriX64<PROTECTED>
00:06.41IriX64IriX64@FthrNtr ~/brlcad-7.8.4
00:06.41IriX64$
00:06.51IriX64this is on a windows machine.
00:07.29IriX64crap should have pastebinned, sorry. :(
00:07.32``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:07.35``Eriknot a windows machine
00:07.36``Erik:D
00:08.26``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:08.33``Erikalso not a windows machine... :D
00:08.39IriX64:)
00:08.57``Erikyou can tell by the uptime... O:-)
00:09.07IriX64you can tell mine by the short time its been up. :)
00:09.13MaloeranTsk, such high uptimes are a sign that you don't overclock enough!
00:09.20IriX64heh
00:10.30``Erikheh, these are machines meant for reliability...
00:11.02``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:11.17MaloeranOops
00:11.22Maloeran<PROTECTED>
00:11.27``Erikhearing an old woman bark "who do I have to gum to get a refill?" is disturbing
00:12.29``Erik(was on simpsons... mal, urban dictionary for 'gumjob' ... O:-) )
00:12.30MaloeranI think I don't want to look up other meanings of the verb "to gum" that I'm not familiar with
00:12.51``Erikperhaps a wise move
00:13.09IriX64juciy fruit? :)
00:13.36IriX64thats chewing gum
00:14.13``Erikdoublemint, yo, hook me up with some hot twins ;)
00:14.27IriX64heh sen sen
00:17.32IriX64copy pretty.exe pretty.a     pretty.a   <---- still runs
00:18.02``Erik... on windows, yes.
00:18.06``Erikbecause it's still a PF binary...
00:18.10``Erikit is NOT an elf binary
00:18.26``Erikhere, let me send you an ELF binary, lets see if you can run it...
00:18.41IriX64was producedto be no matter what its called.
00:19.11IriX64quite right
00:19.30IriX64rt11 rawks ``Erik. :)
00:19.39IriX64RT11 get it right.
00:20.09``Erikaaaaand you know this from experience? no? thought so :D
00:21.08IriX64Why can't i produce an ELF binary and call it whatever i want?
00:21.15MaloeranYou can't produce ELF binaries on windows. Windows uses that MZ thing
00:21.41IriX64gcc cannot produce elf binaries? since when
00:21.42IriX64?
00:21.57Maloerangcc produces binaries that are appropriate for your platform, unless you cross-compile
00:22.06``Erikuh, if you install a normal gcc on windows, it cannot produce elf binaries
00:22.08MaloeranAnd when you cross-compile, you can't execute the binaries meant for the target platform
00:22.41MaloeranIriX64, just install Linux and play around with it
00:23.05IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368340
00:23.33``Erik... yes... and?
00:23.47IriX64Maloeran: illegal instruction trap, handalable without bailing?
00:24.28MaloeranYou can catch the SIGILL signal, yes
00:24.53MaloeranSIGKILL and SIGSTOP are the only two you can't catch
00:24.57IriX64and  try to find a cygwin entry point ie your MZ thing
00:25.33IriX64exe is huge but 200gig drive here *shrug*
00:26.07MaloeranI really recommend to repartition and install Linux, you'll get some good and more varied experience
00:26.36IriX64had linux on vmware.
00:26.43MaloeranReal Linux ;)
00:26.59IriX64its vmware thats not real ;)
00:27.35``Erik(or fbsd, or nbsd, or obsd, or dragonfly, or minix, or zetaos, or ...)
00:27.59``Eriksolaris-x86, ...
00:28.18MaloeranHe'll suffer less with Linux
00:28.29``ErikI'd disagree
00:28.37``ErikYOU suffer less with linux because you're familiar with linux
00:28.44``Erikjust like irix suffers less with windows right now
00:28.59``Erikman, that sentence sounded dirty, irix64 needs a new nick o.O
00:29.20MaloeranI think there are Linux distributions far friendlier than FreeBSD...
00:29.33MaloeranAnd he's not quite ready for Gentoo or Linux from scratch :)
00:29.43``Erikthere're bsd distributions far friendlier than fbsd, too
00:29.46``Eriklike pcbsd
00:29.56MaloeranAh, never heard of it
00:30.15IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/368347 <--this is the only piece of code ive ever written. :P
00:31.12``Erikwow, there is so much wrong with that
00:31.14``Erik*boggle*
00:31.18``ErikO:-)
00:31.36MaloeranWell, at least it's C and not Javascript or Basic
00:31.54``Erikit's sorta C
00:32.07IriX64C- i call it.
00:32.49``Erikwould that even compile with the args messed up? heh
00:33.02MaloeranI think it will compile with warnings
00:33.19MaloeranWell, assuming you got a compiler with conio.h and kbhit() of course
00:33.35``Erikthose're lib functions, not compiler things...
00:33.50brlcadreminds me of an old dos program I wrote a really long time ago
00:34.30``Erikbackward args, poor logic path, magic numbers, no indentation, etc? :D
00:34.31``Erik*duck*
00:34.33brlcadcompiler too.. they're both int-castable values and main is in the compiler's realm
00:39.26MaloeranI never quite understood that one
00:39.46``Erik*shrug* probably just weren't in the sym map
00:40.11MaloeranIt's a low-level interrupt, can't get any closer to the hardware
00:40.37``Erikdos may've caught the interrupt, didn't recognize it, and did an iret without pushing it
00:40.37MaloeranEh no :), IriX64's archaic code brings back memories, old stuff I never figured out and still don't
00:40.39IriX64kb too
00:41.00IriX64getvect setvect how much fun is that.
00:41.41IriX64btw ill have you know pretty runs just fine.
00:45.03MaloeranSo how's that OS coming along, Erik? :)
00:45.25IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!BFB9E7E9DA2BD02D!113&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=15&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum&_c02_owner=1
00:45.42IriX64i *wont do *that again sheez
00:46.45``Erikhaven't touched it in a while, mal, too much other stuff to do :(
00:47.04IriX64``Erik you write os?
00:47.23``Erikin the grand scheme of things, that os is awfully low on the priority list
00:47.45IriX64personal project then?
00:47.57``Erikyeah
00:48.12``Erikboth my own os and most of my work with fbsd are personal projects
00:48.30IriX64Based on or is this a new idea?
00:49.39``Erikum, inspired by old lispos, with some other equally ancient ideas like automatic parallelism and distribution, stateful system coherency, etc
00:50.57MaloeranAn OS with its own synchronisation mechanisms and interfaces geared up towards cluster processing could be amusing
00:52.40MaloeranIriX64, you seem to be motivated and have free time, you should pick up a C book and burn a Linux CD
00:52.59``Erikor a bsd cd, or a solaris cd, or a zeta cd, or a ...
00:53.10IriX64if any body cares, that Gesr thing is a paper tape reader/punch replacement for an industrial computer.
00:54.42MaloeranOr a Linux CD, and embark in a grandiose and wondrous adventure towards knowledge, the infinity and beyond!
00:55.38IriX64can't wait till my spirit take flight.
00:57.29``Erik<-- also stunted for learning basic as his first programming language :D
00:57.56IriX64fortran here
00:58.08IriX64WatIV
00:58.14``Erikobviously not, irix.
00:58.32``Erik:D
00:58.41IriX64WatIV is obvious?
00:58.53IriX64:)
01:01.05MaloeranOuch Erik, Basic. I'm sorry, I didn't know...
01:02.25IriX64need to tend to life. l8r.
01:02.41MaloeranI have used C and assembly rather exclusively, if you omit the attempts at getting used to other languages
01:16.49louipcI recommend archlinux :D
01:17.51louipcoh he left :P
01:18.46MaloeranUbuntu is supposed to be very friendly though I heard some horror stories
01:19.23MaloeranA friend had an IDE controller or something that it didn't like somehow, and it would destroy cdrom drives systematically
01:19.28louipchorror or stories of discomfort?
01:19.34louipcthat's horror
01:22.12louipcI just found it very uncomfortable
01:23.50``Erikmaybe you put the cd in the wrong place?
01:24.25louipchah hah
01:28.00Maloeranfor cutting, rather
01:33.54Twingyguess what
01:34.05Twingytime to go running
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07:17.12Maloeranbrlcad, a stupid question, but if I make changes to librt's nmg_* functions, how can I test? :)
07:17.42MaloeranAlso, may any fix to have triangles face the proper pay prove useless with the coming opennurbs updates?
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13:34.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: make sure we can restore COPYING/INSTALL when automake decides to ignore our umask
13:56.13brlcadMaloeran: easiest would probably be to take one of the converters, e.g. g-stl or g-nmg and test
13:57.34brlcadand no, I don't think it'd be useless.. opennurbs has a *long* way to go to prove that it can replace nmg outright -- for now it's just going to be a new primitive, replacing tessellations would be something to try after that
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15:39.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: use common.h to wrap brlcad_config.h for external apps
16:06.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Begin implementation of brep plot routine. start with coarse mesh from openNURBS.
16:52.18CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Begin implementation of brep plot routine. actually use vlist to draw mesh.
17:06.25brlcadshibby
17:23.26*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168049077.dsl.bell.ca)
17:38.04IriX64http://www.spaces.live.com/IriX64
18:01.57CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: fill in ray origin and dir on shoot. Set nmg 'silent' flag. dup path.
19:32.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/define.h: common.h should always be included before any system headers
19:53.03IriX64``Erik, so you admit I can produce ELF binaries on my toy windows systen ? :P
19:53.11IriX64system too.
19:54.37``Erikif you were to install a real ELF crosscompiler and knew how to use it, sure
19:54.46``Erik...
19:54.50``Erikthat's not an elf binary
19:54.59``Erikdo you have "file" installed? it's a program that tells you about a specified file
19:55.02IriX64is now :)
19:55.18``Erikit'll identify binaries and what format they are
19:55.48``Erik$ file /usr/brlcad/bin/rt
19:55.51``Erik/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
19:55.56IriX64I have it. should use it , yes? :)
19:56.03``Erik$ file /usr/brlcad/bin/rt
19:56.06``Erik/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: Mach-O executable ppc
19:56.41``Erikyou'll probably see something about a windows PE executable
19:56.50MaloeranThe extension does not define what a file is, it's used by certain environments to decide the default actions when for the files
19:57.02Maloeranwhen interacting* with the files
19:57.20``Erikcertain stpid environments, good ones look at file magic *cough*
19:57.48MaloeranFile magic is far slower
19:58.05``Erikyes, .0001 seconds instead of .000001 seconds, ohs noes
19:58.22IriX64$ file mged.exe
19:58.22IriX64mged.exe: MS-DOS executable PE  for MS Windows (console) Intel 80386 32-bit
19:58.22IriX64IriX64@FthrNtr /usr/cygcad/bin
19:58.46MaloeranIt's far slower than that, really. There are WMs and dekstops which run file for every file of a directory when you view it
19:58.59MaloeranAnd it crawls terribly, opening every file and checking its format
19:59.36``Erikheh, nautilus does that, I think, and caches results... it even extracts images to provide thumbnails iirc *shrug*
20:00.35Maloeranrxvt is all the gui I need anyhow :)
20:01.17MaloeranI used both elelfm2 and gentoo for some time, I stopped using both when some bugs ( in *both* ) made the apparent selection be different from the real selection, causing me to delete files I did not want to
20:02.09``Erikif you're too lame to delete files from the command line, use mc, it sucks less :D
20:02.43MaloeranEh, I always use the command line now, I finally got used to it
20:10.22IriX64how do you camman a line? :)
20:10.26IriX64command too
20:10.43MaloeranWith a sharp ruler
20:10.57IriX64.me bows to Maloeran :P
20:11.03IriX64err
20:13.28IriX64err Maloeran ordered my ammunition confiscated. :)
20:25.29MaloeranJust install some Unix, you'll learn quite a bit. Pick Linux or FreeBSD, it will determine who of us two you can ask questions to
20:25.50IriX64haaha I get it. thanks.
20:30.15``Erikneat, adrt gives radically wrong answers, I must be using it wrong
20:31.34MaloeranThat might be why it seems so slow
20:31.46``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/37285
20:32.24MaloeranCool
20:32.44``Erik'firing' in the middle is origin -> direction
20:32.58``Eriklibrt is first, then some adrt noise, then adrt results
20:34.07``Erikthe massive jitter on adrt's x/y is what concerns me  at the moment, though the distances on the r212 region are kinda concerning
20:34.50IriX64``Erik? thats an rt shot? admitting my ignorance here.
20:34.59``Eriksorta, yes
20:35.10IriX64how's it done?
20:35.10``Erikit's a partition biulding shot using two engines
20:35.12``Erikuhhhh
20:35.15``Eriksoftware? :D
20:35.18IriX64heh ty.
20:35.25``Erikif you want to do a single ray by hand, check out "nirt"
20:35.37MaloeranI like these numbers. I think my code can fit well with that kind of accuracy
20:35.47IriX64never played with all the gadgets but i think ill experiment.
20:36.06``Erikhahaha, well, it's inexcusable accuracy :D I'm either doing osmething wrong, or tie is busted
20:36.59``Erikthe z is all correct, I think
20:37.58IriX64get syntax errors in fron of all the BC_ stuff in configure.
20:38.03``Erikbut the 1.2% deviation is ... wow
20:38.03IriX64front too.
20:38.12``Erikaclocal -I ./m4
20:38.18``Erikor ./autogen.sh
20:38.45IriX64./autogen.sh works but you *should be able to run aclocal without switches.
20:39.13IriX64the stuff is there but has syntax errors
20:40.24``Erikthe early autoconf'd version of brlcad didn't need that, talk to brlcad about it *shrug*
20:40.36IriX64ty
20:46.19``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:46.19``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:46.19``Erik<PROTECTED>
20:46.22``Eriknice... :(
20:47.07MaloeranThat's the source of the problem?
20:47.15``ErikI believe so
20:47.27MaloeranIt's surely to avoid divides by zero
20:47.34``Eriksince my ray dir is defined as 0,0,1
20:47.53``Erikit gets used as TIE_PREC,TIE_PREC,1
20:49.17``Erik0.008435
20:49.42``Erikwhich correlates
20:49.55MaloeranThis is all good stuff. The more inaccuraries you find there, the least worse my code will seem
20:50.00``Erikhah
20:52.29``Erikit's visually tolerable, but not geometric analysis tolerable... I think it'll need to be fixed :/
20:55.19*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
20:55.27MaloeranI hate Ctrl+Alt+Backspace!
20:56.30IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/369427 < -- a run of the behavious i described.
20:56.40IriX64behaviour too.
20:57.51MaloeranWho would ever create a shortcut that kills X made of keys that one could very well use in rapid succession or simultaneously
20:59.15``Erikalt control delete?
20:59.35``Erikhow is that so easy to hit? O.o
20:59.35MaloeranAt least that does not kill windows
20:59.47MaloeranCtrl+Alt+Backspace kills X instantly!
20:59.50``Erikalso; run irc in screen, so'z it won't disconnect
21:00.04``Erikyes, alt+ctrl+backspace is the OMFGKILLX!!~!
21:00.57``Erikahhh, the days of fullscreen game programming when sdl was flakey :D
21:01.04MaloeranI frequently type with the right hand, the left hand holds ctrl+alt to soon switch desktop
21:01.20MaloeranI make a typo, hit backspace, and boom. It happens about once every two weeks
21:01.36``Erikhm, the solution is simple: quit doing that.
21:04.12IriX64errr or undo it (duck)
21:06.46brlcadIriX64: there are lots of things wrong with that
21:06.53brlcadin regards to "15:37  * IriX64 wonders whats wrong with aclocal, autoheader, autoconf, automake sequence"
21:07.12brlcadautoreconf doesn't do just that either
21:07.41IriX64but you should be able to do that no?
21:07.47brlcadnope
21:07.53IriX64really?
21:08.07brlcadwell, at least no if you also want to expect it to work
21:08.09IriX64it used to work on 7.6.0
21:08.19IriX64and 7.6.2
21:08.20brlcadyou got lucky
21:08.25IriX64twice?
21:08.30brlcadit *can* work
21:08.37IriX64details plz.
21:08.39brlcadbut it doesn't mean it *will* or should work
21:08.52IriX64not a problem then?
21:09.29brlcadit's a problem with what you're doing, but not a problem with how it's set up
21:09.45IriX64wrong sequence?
21:09.52brlcadyes
21:09.55brlcadand wrong parameters
21:10.04IriX64ty.
21:10.13IriX64Ill study up on it.
21:10.47IriX64right now i'm listening to Romeo and Juliet by Dire Straits. :)
21:11.00brlcadread autogen.sh, look for a section entitled MANUAL_AUTOGEN FUNCTION
21:11.11IriX64ty i will.
21:11.49brlcadthere it lists the steps you have to take if you want to do it by hand, though even that is slightly misleading as those steps apply to non-recursive configurations (and the next release will have recursive)
21:12.21IriX64automake is non-recursive ? :P
21:12.25brlcadyou should read the header to autogen.sh too -- says what it does in a summary
21:12.33IriX64ty
21:12.39brlcadautomake is neither recursive or non-recursive
21:12.50IriX64cmon it delves
21:13.18IriX64calls itself too.
21:13.35brlcadmake recurses and calls itself
21:13.43brlcadautomake just processes a bunch of files passed to it
21:14.58IriX64look for .am ahh found it engage operate on it mode done look for another, ah hell its a directory sigh....
21:16.18IriX64then translated it to vms dcl.
21:16.55brlcadyou have a lot of gillichisms in you
21:17.15IriX64yeah hard to unlearn you know, but i'm trying.
21:17.45brlcadheh, i don't think that means what you think it means
21:17.54IriX64like typing with two fingers sigh, ill never beat that.
21:17.58brlcaddid you read autogen.sh yet?
21:18.11IriX64you meant now, hold on...
21:18.24MaloeranTyping with 2 fingers? Impressive, you are quite fast at it
21:19.25IriX64err maunual_autogen_function not there case sensitivity turned off same.
21:19.50IriX64ty Maloeran.
21:19.53brlcadthen you're not using the newer autogen.sh that you were supposed to have downloaded a couple days ago
21:20.07IriX64wrong tree just a sec...
21:20.14brlcadlook for just manual then
21:20.31brlcadand still, the header is the same in both, read the intro
21:20.46brlcadafter the legal junk is an explanation
21:22.38IriX64look its not there i tried searching four trees and the scipt i downloaded.
21:23.22IriX64and i checked for typos in my search string :)
21:24.30IriX64ill just rely on autogen.
21:24.51IriX64is the other method deprecated?
21:29.23brlcadwhich is pretty much the response of everyone until they learn how to use them right
21:29.52brlcadthere are reasons why the tools are the way that they are, for better or worse, and seeing why they are the way they are only comes with time
21:30.32brlcadthe only way you can do better really is by changing a lot of assumptions, requirements, or increasing the baseline
21:30.59brlcadotherwise, when used as documented, they work better than any alternatives
21:31.21brlcadthat doesn't mean easy on the developer, but it does result in an interface that requires the least of ones users
21:31.43brlcadIriX64: in your case, you also apparently trying to learn how the tools themselves work for some reason
21:31.54IriX64curiousity.
21:32.05MaloeranIriX64, go learn to code, it's more interesting ;)
21:32.12brlcadI can't fathom why you'd *want* to try to run individual commands when there are two interfaces provided that work correctly
21:32.12IriX64comparing to what I am used too.
21:32.31brlcadbut that's not even practical knowledge for the most part.. running the autotools steps like that
21:32.45IriX64Thanks maloeran I need much knowlewdge care to teach? :)
21:33.08brlcadit's not even a valid comparison to other build environments, as that's not even the documented use
21:33.14IriX64sorta like being a backyard mechanic brlcad.
21:33.37MaloeranWe can't "teach", but we can answer questions, Grab K&R, the C programming langyage holy bible, or some online guide
21:33.49IriX64will do.
21:34.21IriX64God created me with a leaky valve, I'll be right back.
21:35.11brlcadif you really want to learn how it works under the hood, study autogen.sh in detail -- read it until you understand it one line at a time
21:36.12brlcadautogen.sh only exists because of versioning/compatibility flexibility issues with the autotools over their years of existence, it's a wrapper around the documented way that "should" just work of running autoreconf with some options
21:37.21brlcadthere are no predefined steps that autoreconf takes that you can replicate for all projects, it does different things for different projects based on the contents of the build system files like configure.ac/in, Makefile.am and other files
21:41.50brlcadif there are no versioning mismatch problems, bugs, or misconfiguration issues, all autogen.sh does is run autoreconf for you
21:45.08MaloeranI'm sure it's the vim or Blender of configuration scripts, I just wish it could be used properly without learning so much
21:45.49MaloeranAlthough libtools has often behaved erratically with me
21:46.23brlcadmore like the 'ed' of editor interfaces combined with the emacs feature list
21:48.06brlcadlibtool is the weakest link and most bug prone, but it also juggles the hardest part .. 90% of new-user libtool problems that I've seen (even my own) have been incorrect assumptions that happened to work somewhere but quickly broke under different conditions
21:49.10brlcadcontrary to autoconf and automake, libtool usually doesn't abort during autoreconf when something is specified wrong .. it just causes wierd/bad things to happen during compile/linking
21:49.29MaloeranExample of erratical behavior. I made a copy of the scripts generated by libtool to append a "gdb" in the "exec" line, for obvious reasons
21:49.53brlcadyep
21:51.30MaloeranWhen the list of .o files change, these gdb scripts become really weird. Sometimes, they work, and the next moment, they don't ( nothing has changed ) with the script complaining about some .o file
21:51.30MaloeranYou may recompile without changing anything, and it might work again, then stop doing so. It's just... erratical
21:51.30brlcadwhy does the list of .o files change?
21:51.37MaloeranBecause a new .c file was added for example
21:52.01brlcadif a new c file is added, and you update the makefile.am, it's going to recompile the binary, and replace the script
21:52.23MaloeranRight, but the old copy of the script with "gdb" added isn't updated ; and the behavior of that script is _really_ weird
21:52.47MaloeranI realize I should update the scripts every time, but it really surprised me to see such inconsistant behavior
21:53.41brlcadyou've not said that was wierd/inconsistent
21:54.07MaloeranWhat is weird is that the old copy of the script with "gdb" added might sometimes work and sometimes does not
21:54.12brlcadif you've added a new compilation object, the presumably copied one that has a gdb added is invalid
21:54.20MaloeranAnd I'm talking about running it 2 times in a row without changing anything else
21:55.00brlcadahh, what you're seeing is due to the reason the scripts exist in the first place too
21:55.30brlcadwhen you recompiled, the build deleted the actual binary that your gdb script pointed to, which is actually just a local lt-binary
21:55.51brlcadfirst pass through, it actually compiles/links it when you run the script
21:55.59brlcadsecond pass, it has the lt- binary
21:56.30MaloeranSo somehow it works the first time but not the second?... It doesn't visibly compile anything
21:56.35brlcadstill, that's very much a matter of editing/running something that was/is invalid and shouldn't work
21:56.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: compute and display speedup
21:57.31brlcadright, it doesn't blather about it, just compiles behind the scenes, and it does this for a rather good reason -- it's why it's a shell script there in the first place and not just the binary
21:57.58brlcadif you want a binary that you can just run, you can disable shared libraries during configure
21:58.05MaloeranI thought it was just to set the shared library paths right
21:58.17brlcadthat's one of the things it does
21:58.30brlcadhow to do that portably depends on the platform too
21:58.55brlcadso it relinks the binary so that it should run without being installed (however that can be acheived for the target platform)
22:00.04brlcadwhat ``Erik said is actually what you're "supposed" to do according to the docs, the fact that adding a gdb --args into the script works is about as significant as pulling out a hex editor on a binary to get some modified behavior
22:00.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: compute and save the hit points and normals
22:02.03MaloeranAll right, and this explains the "sometimes works, sometimes doesn't" part
22:03.24``Erikit always works, it just doesn't do what you expect :D
22:03.24CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: extract the path string per region
22:04.42brlcadyep, almost guaranteed that it either notices the lt-binary is missing or is at least out of sync timestamp-wise (depends on your version of libtool), and it attempts to relink .. which I would think would fail sometimes due to symbols missing and othertimes for other reasons
22:05.09brlcador at least what you want
22:05.57``Erik"do what I mean, not what I say!"
22:38.06IriX64mea culpa, what time would you like me to report to the firing squad?
22:38.32MaloeranAt 26:14 and be on time!
22:38.44IriX64Right captain.
22:39.02brlcadwould you like fish sticks or peanut butter as your last meal?
22:39.13IriX64also explains why brlcad is channel op :)
22:39.39IriX64mmmmm sirloin, rare :)
22:39.57IriX64trying to accuse me of buttering you up?
22:40.35brlcadyou're the wrong gender to be buttering me up
22:40.45IriX64it's configing happily now. thanks for the tutorial.
22:41.09IriX64thats for sure man... the parts were'nt meant to go together :)
22:41.13brlcadseriously, though -- if you want to know how the engine works, read through autogen.sh in detail -- at least the comments
22:41.21IriX64were'nt too.
22:41.35IriX64already started.
22:42.08IriX64I can safely be accused of being just a casual *nix user.
22:44.31IriX64and now it's happily "making"
22:51.57brlcadnot really, other than perhaps having had this discussion at least twice now about how you should read autogen.sh if you really want to break things into pieces like that.. and I think you've still not done that :P
22:53.49IriX6445000000 Maloeran, thats a pricey sentence.
22:55.18MaloeranFailure to paiment will return in spatial confinement for 6.5*9^10 units of Plank time
22:57.39IriX64Plank as in walk?
22:57.44IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/369597
22:57.57IriX64still working on this.
22:58.27brlcadi feel like a parrot with you sometimes :)
22:58.52IriX64heh you didn't have to go look :)
22:59.02brlcadthat's some entirely unknown ld/cygwin/libtool issue
22:59.29IriX64agreed, funy thing is it keeps compiling.
22:59.34brlcadyour best bet is to install libz and/or libpng on your own, add them as static libs to the build during configure
22:59.47brlcadah, now it's compiling?  yesterday it was failing?
22:59.50brlcadwhat'd you change?
23:00.14IriX64build alias.
23:00.23brlcadhuh?
23:00.56IriX64--build=i686-pc-cygwin compiles, --build=whatever compiles only with --disable switch.
23:00.59brlcadif people aren't supposed to click on a link or derive something interesting by clicking on a link, then it shouldn't be pasted :P
23:01.33IriX64kindly telling me to watch what links i put in the channel, noted and thank you :)
23:03.17brlcadI'd also think that there's no need to keep thanking people after you're told things, I can't imagine that you really are *that* thankful for everything ..
23:03.30brlcadmaybe thank when it's thank-worthy, really useful? :)
23:03.35brlcadjust a thought :)
23:03.40IriX64:)
23:04.07IriX64I've never ever really grown up you see :)
23:04.19IriX64treat everybody like their my parents.
23:04.23brlcadthat much I gathered a really long time ago
23:04.44brlcadI swore you were 12 for months
23:04.56brlcadstill do some days
23:06.42IriX64zasm was kinda fun too eh ``Erik?
23:10.21IriX64do incompatible pointer types warnings interest you? I can restart if they do.
23:12.29MaloeranIgnore, it's probably fine
23:12.40IriX64ty
23:13.17IriX64fixed Sc.c and cursor.c tho.
23:13.50IriX64(char *) buncha times in both.
23:21.41brlcadIriX64: nah, it would be nice for someone to actually go through and fix all of the warnings, especially make it so that --enable-warnings comes up clean
23:22.24brlcadbut that's mostly dusting under the lampshade in the closet in the upstairs bedroom sorts of maintenance
23:44.20IriX64i might tackle it don't know about code will never be executed though :)
23:45.55louipcsalutations
23:46.14IriX64and everybody hallucinated :)
23:46.50brlcadlouipc: howdy loui
23:48.06MaloeranSome warnings can't be removed without negatively impacting performance, annoyingly
23:48.28IriX64tajke your pick clean or mean :)
23:48.33IriX64take too.
23:48.47louipcI choose mean
23:49.42MaloeranI say efficiency above clean code, portability and reliability!
23:49.45brlcadthose are pretty darn rare, and usually imply reliance on just compiler behavior that one probably can't be guaranteed anyways (beyond compiler writer promises)
23:50.33Maloeranbrlcad, such as these "variable might be used unitialized" or even "variable is used unitialized"
23:51.00MaloeranThough the second one is very specific
23:51.02louipcactually I choose portability
23:51.06brlcadthe problem with efficiency, is that you can blame so many things on that banner to the point of rediculousness
23:51.53brlcadMaloeran: err.. using a variable that's been uninitialized would be bad unreliable behavior
23:52.19``Erikbakebakebake
23:52.25brlcadthat's usually something that might work on one system/compiler, but could easily cause an outright crash on another
23:52.30MaloeranIt's not unitialized, but GCC isn't clever enough to understand it.  Pick a SSE m128 register, if you write the lower and higher 64 bits independantely, GCC will complain it's unitialized
23:52.57brlcadahh, that's somewhat different -- that borderlines on a false positive
23:53.20MaloeranSure, I'm talking about these borderline cases here, where removing the warning would reduce performance
23:53.47``Erikohyeah, mal, it breaks on fbsd again, some _mm ops that are named different or somethin'
23:54.11MaloeranThat's weird, anything more specific?
23:54.15brlcadthat one in particular "probably" falls under the "pretty darn rare" category, without seeing the actual code
23:54.40``ErikI had it, but I forgot it, um, I suppose I could regenerate the error :)
23:55.13``Erikupdateupdateupdate
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070224

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070224

00:34.30``Erik../../rtirenderblend4sse.c: In function `elemcallb':
00:34.30``Erik../../rtirenderblend4sse.c:251: warning: implicit declaration of function `_mm_castps_si128'
00:34.30``Erik../../rtirenderblend4sse.c:251: error: incompatible type for argument 2 of `_mm_and_si128'
00:39.08MaloeranHum. Okay
00:39.31MaloeranDo you have SSE2 on that box?
00:40.22``Erik<PROTECTED>
00:42.20MaloeranOn FreeBSD, right? Does it find emmintrin.h? Don't you have these pseudo function calls in it?
00:43.18MaloeranPerhaps I used non-standard SSE intrinsics by mistake, I'm just a bit surprised
00:43.48``Erik$ ls -l /usr/include/emmintrin.h
00:43.48``Erik-r--r--r--  1 root  wheel  34528 Sep 16  2005 /usr/include/emmintrin.h
00:44.23MaloeranCan you grep it for castps_si128?
00:44.44MaloeranMust be a non-standard SSE intrinsic, it's just a cast anyway
00:45.22``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/contrib/gcc/config/i386/emmintrin.h?rev=1.1.1.3&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
00:47.01MaloeranOkay. I'll fix that soon
00:47.53*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz)
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00:48.50brlcad"There was a problem with the switch that has been resolved by the IP Engineering department, your server was not rebooted but is currently online and responsive to my ping requests."
00:49.08brlcadfor anyone on or connected to .bz, that is
00:52.04``ErikO.o
00:56.17``Erikld: .libs/job.o has external relocation entries in non-writable section (__TEXT,__text) for symbols:
00:56.17``ErikjobThreadWork
00:56.19``Erikneat
00:57.57MaloeranWhat is that?
00:58.47MaloeranOh, some platform doesn't like my assembly hack to align the stack on 16 bytes on ia32
00:59.18MaloeranHave a look at RF/job.c, I'm not sure what that error message means
01:03.46MaloeranAny thoughts or further insight?
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01:09.13``Erikcouldn't you do something like an alignment attribute? O.o
01:09.51MaloeranNo, it's the stack itself that is not aligned
01:10.06MaloeranThe compiler can't preserve stack alignment if the thread stack wasn't aligned to begin with
01:10.37``Erikhrm *shrug*
01:10.37IriX64what the hey does the compiler care about a users thread?
01:10.37MaloeranSo when launching a thread, first thing I do is fixing the alignment, and the compiler preserves the alignment from that point
01:10.46IriX64it's all code.
01:10.57IriX64unless you have thread optimizations.
01:10.59``Erikthe compiler doesn't, but if you are misaligned when you try to execute an sse op, shit blows up
01:11.11IriX64runtime?
01:11.14MaloeranYes
01:11.15``Erikyeah
01:11.17IriX64obviously duh.
01:11.43IriX64auto assigned stack or user determined?
01:11.56MaloeranWhat's the fix, Erik? Is the symbol incorrect on fbsd, does it need an underscore or something?
01:12.04MaloeranAutomatically assigned stack
01:12.23IriX64system *should keep track of it then.
01:12.28IriX64alas
01:12.37IriX64all systems are not created equeal.
01:12.44MaloeranAn automatic stack will be allocated in the proper memory bank for the processor, for higher performance. If I were to provide it, I would need to do some non-portable libNUMA fu and Erik would hate me
01:12.53IriX64ergo code generated for one system etc...
01:13.13IriX64heh beat eric with a noodle.
01:13.43IriX64btw am i breaking anything by having Mr. Muss's face on my space?
01:13.59IriX64I mean is it allowed i should have asked first.
01:14.39``Erikwhat symbol? the job breakage was osX on an x86 core duo
01:14.58MaloeranThe jobThreadWork symbol that I'm calling from assembly
01:15.34``Erikthat's a mac, not fbsd
01:16.04``Erik<-- doesn't know the fix
01:16.05Maloeran<-- neither
01:16.06``Erik<-- thinks only linux has the alignment broken stuff, though
01:16.32MaloeranErik, test it. Disable the RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK switch
01:16.35``ErikI'm fairly sure you can just call jobThreadWork() on fbsd and it self-aligns
01:16.47``Erikbut your sse stuff is broken on fbsd right now *shrug*
01:17.58``Erikheh, I have my reasons.
01:18.25MaloeranIf you want to test Erik, just replace _mm_castps_si128(x) with (__m128i)x
01:20.02``ErikI deleted RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK from config.h and it works fine on the mac
01:20.21``ErikI think RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK should only be if __linux__ && __x86__
01:20.27MaloeranAgreed
01:22.57``Erikhrm, ok, changing the castps let it compile... but it's not decently headed, so rfdemo won't do well
01:23.11``Erikwhat can I run to see if it executes without crashing with no head? :D
01:23.48Maloeranrfregtest? :)
01:23.55``Erikfailed to create context
01:24.03``Erikdoes it assume files in pwd?
01:24.10MaloeranYes
01:24.20``Erikbah
01:24.45MaloeranContext creation failed is about rt.conf and the .so
01:30.18``Eriklog2f issues again, heh
01:31.38MaloeranYour last "fix" would never detect log2() in any circumstance, because it's C99 and requires -lm
01:31.49MaloeranAnd the configure thing tested C89 without -lm
01:33.27``Erikheh, quit using c99? :D *duck*
01:35.40``Erikok, hacked the log2 defs back in and it's cooking away now
01:35.42``Erikno crashes so far
01:36.00MaloeranDo you think you could test a big endian platform?
01:37.05``Erikpretty easily
01:37.11``Erikbut SDL gives you that for free O.o
01:37.40MaloeranAh well, there's the geometry group file format to test too
01:38.03MaloeranNo big deal, it should work unless I made a stupid typo somewhere
01:38.42brlcadheh, sdl don't give jack for free
01:38.44``Erikok, the hack is off and regtest is running on opteron/fbsd now
01:38.47brlcadthere's a price *somewhere*
01:38.54``Erikheh, yeah, you have to include it to get the macros
01:39.04``Erikwhich penalize the unpreferred format
01:39.30MaloeranThe hack is only for ia32 platforms by the way
01:39.41brlcadproviding seamless maintainability integration can be a pita with them, but doable
01:39.45MaloeranThe switch is ignored on amd64, as it's unecessary and it's ia32 assembly anyway
01:39.57``Erikit was on in my compile :/
01:40.08MaloeranSure it's on, but ignored in the code
01:40.16``Erik*shrug*
01:40.31``Erikhow long does it take for results agan?
01:40.54MaloeranIt takes several minutes, just kill it ;)
01:41.03``Erikwoops, there went a core dump
01:41.12MaloeranWoah.
01:41.57``Erik#0  0x000000080144b89c in pthread_testcancel () from /lib/libpthread.so.2
01:42.35MaloeranCan you backtrace a bit more?
01:43.05``ErikI bailed out of the machine and closed the screen, sorry... there were only three symbols, the first and last were pthread
01:43.38MaloeranActually... This was refregtest, right? I think I forgot to fix something there
01:43.53``Erikyeah, rfregtest
01:44.03brlcadwoot, autogen.sh now works from subconf dirs
01:44.13``Erikgiven the number of machines I was jumping through and the slow link, rfdemo wouldn't have worked well :)
01:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
01:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: add a function to locate the configure template so that we find the right files
01:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: when running autogen.sh from an ac_config_subdirs directory, perhaps being
01:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: configured/compiled in isolation (without making a copy of this script). also
01:47.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: add a sanity check that we did indeed end up with a configure script when all
01:47.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: was said and done.
01:51.44brlcadIriX64: ehm.. that's pretty impossible at this point
01:51.59brlcadthe channel is publicly logged and indexed by google daily
01:52.13IriX64ahh well.
01:52.29IriX64<*>
01:54.27brlcadsearch for "IriX64 BRL-CAD" and you can see a few on the first page alone
01:56.34MaloeranCool, logs from the channel 14 months ago
01:57.03IriX64really? explains something
01:58.11``Erikheh http://paste.lisp.org/display/30558
01:59.06IriX64jack?.... Jack Shit, I know him well. ;)
01:59.30IriX64what are you testing?
01:59.54IriX64ermf for get I said that or you'll be asking me same question.
02:01.11MaloeranIriX64, grab a C guide online, get dev-c++ and get started
02:01.18``Erikheh, squeak
02:01.48IriX64the mouse that roared?
02:02.11``Erikno, the smalltalk environment
02:02.22``Erikirix: check out http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/
02:02.23``Erikit's nifty
02:02.29IriX64why smalltalk why not crosstalk?
02:03.06IriX64ermf xbox?
02:04.46MaloeranSeriously, IriX64, learn to code ; I think it's the kind of hobby you would enjoy
02:05.31``Erikthe exercised in structured thinking is a good growth opportunity
02:05.46``Erikthink of it like sudoku on steroids :)
02:06.06IriX64problem is the environment insists on stunting my growth :)
02:06.51``Erikheh
02:07.01MaloeranThe environment?
02:07.32IriX64structured programming environment, I seriously don't think like that.
02:07.48MaloeranNo one does, it's an acquired skill
02:07.59MaloeranJust give it a try
02:08.04IriX64old dog, new tricks thing.
02:08.20``Erikwhat? old john, new tricks?
02:08.24``Eriksorry, I'll behave O:-)
02:08.29IriX64heheh
02:08.54IriX64when you get that old the trick is in keeping her :)
02:09.18MaloeranAre you retired or so, IriX64?
02:09.46IriX64disability. (does it show, mentally challenged :))
02:11.01MaloeranReally? You seem joyful and not too knowledgeable about computers but I would not have thought that. Are you serious?
02:11.26IriX64just the disability part. but i'm getting well.
02:11.57MaloeranWell, clearly you can type, therefore you can code
02:12.09``Erikheh
02:12.13IriX64used to be a DEC fse before i took work hhere at the plant (Algoma Steel Inc)
02:12.27``Erikplenty of hunt&peck coders out there
02:12.28IriX64trvth
02:13.06MaloeranIt's a disability acquired at a steel mill?..
02:13.14IriX64yes
02:13.29``Erikif you spend more time typing than thinking, I'd assert that either you're using an inappropriate language for the task, or approaching the task in a silly manner
02:13.42MaloeranOuch. Would you... share details, if you want to?
02:14.07IriX64re: coding? I tend to disagree, you could just be a hunt and pecker :)
02:14.29IriX64Maloeran not publicly sorry.
02:14.50``Erikheh, mal is a pecker :D
02:14.50MaloeranOkay, right.
02:15.09IriX64``Erik is a hunter :)
02:15.19``Erikspyhunter, yo
02:15.30IriX64wait ive got dialtone.
02:15.50IriX64bond james bone.
02:15.56``Erikbondo?
02:15.58IriX64:)
02:16.15IriX64stuff used to patch cars get with it.
02:16.16``Erikcar repair paste of international superspies? O.o
02:16.52IriX64paste? as in pasting teeth? :)
02:17.36IriX64tell me ``Erik if it's common sense, why isn't there more of it around?
02:18.19``Erikheh, don't make me bust out my big books of steven wright quotes
02:18.42``Erikor mitch hedberg
02:18.59IriX64steven wright? I turn to calvin and hobbes.
02:20.29MaloeranHey Justin, received mail from Mark forwarding yours
02:20.51MaloeranThe voxel stuff was dropped on the way, apparently the people who thought they needed it were actually using triangles
02:21.49Twingywe'll see about that
02:29.54IriX64Maloeran, I wasn't really kidding about that don't start the thread bit, if it gives you hassle incorporate the code into whatever thinks it needs to start a thread.
02:30.44IriX64forr what its worth :)
02:34.24MaloeranThreads shouldn't be avoided, they are used to distribute the work over multiple processors
02:35.24IriX64not saying avoid them bit if one particular piece of code is giving you grief why fight it.
02:38.11MaloeranIt's fine, just OSX doing things a bit differently, no big deal
02:41.43``Erikheh
02:48.04louipcwhat's the ideology behind that feature?
02:49.42MaloeranThat ia32's largest data type is "double", which is 8 bytes, therefore stacks only require 8 bytes alignment
02:50.51MaloeranThen SSE arrived, which required 16 bytes. The glibc and kernel crowd kept putting the blame on the other camp, I think it got fixed at some point
02:52.25MaloeranCompilers like Intel would align the stack of every function dynamically whenever SSE was used to work around that issue
02:59.15louipcwowzers this processor mumbo jumbo is beyond me
02:59.57MaloeranOops I'm sorry, I assumed you were a programmer
03:07.59louipcno prob, I'm just reading generally about it now. It makes programming at the processor level look like a real pain
03:09.15louipcIriX64: you have a *nix? which one?
03:10.29IriX64DEC :P
03:12.04louipchmm
03:13.17IriX64pdp11/70 louipc :)
03:14.21louipchaha no way
03:15.37IriX64sysV runs well on it tho.
03:17.32IriX64btw if anybody cares, ./m4 *seems tied to 1.9.6.
03:35.52IriX64louipc, recepricol question which unixen do you have?
03:38.50IriX64can i do it that way?
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14:14.46``Erik*cookcookcook*
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15:10.51lg_hey...
15:11.22lg_i am here with a mged modeling question... something i would do with an extrude along path in another app...
15:12.18lg_i am building a segment of a domes with ribs, but everything is rounded
15:15.54lg_ok, thank you...
15:16.03MaloeranIf you were to idle for a while, you'll get an answer eventually, but I wouldn't count on anything in a short time
15:16.27lg_i think i have first to cut away the corner and than past in a part of a torus, which is awful
15:17.07lg_maloeran, do you know if it is possible to specify geometry by angle in mged? it is a rather basic question, but i could not find an answer yet
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18:28.53CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: be a little more liberal on the -all_load libtool script fix to avoid escaping the dollarsign
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20:08.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: loop over potential locations instead of just testing for one. this helps subdir configures clean up too if added to their configure.
20:30.14MaloeranCool, 3 minutes to compile BRL-CAD, optimized and almost-everything
20:36.01brlcadnifty
20:36.29louipcI'm extremely jealous
20:36.50brlcadMaloeran: how long for a ./configure --enable-all compile (i.e. non-optimized, almost-everything)
20:37.17brlcadboth with "make -jwhatever" and "make -jwhatever fast"
20:37.43brlcadmight be in contention for fastest compile to date
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20:53.32louipcIriX64: I'm running linux, archlinux specifically
20:53.36louipc;)
20:54.48IriX64louipc: great what have you photon mapped (it's such fun)
20:54.48Maloeranbrlcad, will test
20:54.48MaloeranI'm not too sure what the optimal -jX is though, yet
20:55.41Maloeran--enable-all is 1 minute 54 seconds
20:56.18MaloeranTrying this "make fast" now
20:56.19brlcadMaloeran: with or without 'fast'
20:56.23MaloeranWithout
20:56.23brlcadahh, k
20:56.35brlcadcool, that would be a record regardless ;)
20:56.40louipcIriX64: nothing worth noting
20:56.53MaloeranNeat, I like my new toy :)
20:56.54brlcadis this cvs head too, or somewhere thereabouts?
20:57.08MaloeranThe latest release, not CVS
20:57.21brlcadahh, okay
20:57.36brlcadstill a record, though latest will be a bit slower
20:57.41IriX64but have you played with the examples? They're truly works of art, I especially like castle.
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20:58.37MaloeranHum. brlcad, it didn't tell me the time it took for "make -j12 fast", I guess I should have clocked
21:00.08brlcadMaloeran: ah, no matter then
21:01.39IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/370750   (*shrug*)
21:02.26Maloerantime make -j12 fast : real 2m3s   user 6m46s   sys 2m57
21:02.38MaloeranOh well, it's adding the time of all cores
21:04.18``Erikhuh?
21:05.12IriX64bwahahah I can now shut down windows from my cygwin environment. thats hysterical louipc you wondered what I'm using, I just told you ;)
21:08.38IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/370763
21:08.51IriX64louipc: check it.
21:14.33IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/370770  (I'll stop now :))
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23:05.15louipcIriX64: I wouldn't call that *nix, it's more like GNU/windows hah
23:19.00``Erikindeed, even less unixy than linux O.O
23:21.35IriX64puhleaze, I can do anything unix can do try me.
23:21.40IriX64:)
23:21.47IriX64i log in too.
23:22.29IriX64btw my little x works very well.
23:22.52IriX64has to or i would not be able to run BRL-CAD.
23:23.47IriX64wonders too.
23:24.33``Erikok
23:24.38``Erikrun on ppc.
23:24.43``Erikor rs6k.
23:24.45``Erikor h9k
23:24.55``Erikor vax or pdp11 or m68k or ...
23:25.12IriX64now you're speaking my langugae
23:25.27IriX64pdp8s best machine ever.
23:26.03``Erikor support hundreds of concurrent users
23:26.11IriX64doing a no debugging build want to see how fast havoc photon maps.
23:26.30``Erikor provide services to the internet with no antivirus software chewing cycles and not get infected or cracked
23:26.43IriX64huh?
23:27.19IriX64``Erik i respect you're opinion no matter how wrong you may be ;)
23:27.34``Erik<-- doens't think he's all that wrong  O:-)
23:27.50IriX64heh neither do i :)
23:28.43``Erikand photon mapping is a two phase operation... it raytraces as fast as it does with no lighting... and the photo map pass totally depends on how many photons you specify and a few other parameters
23:29.10``Erikpath tracing seems a bit more interesting, though... have you managed to get adrt to build? it has something in it called "rise" which is pretty neat
23:29.16IriX64sure but you can get a guesstimate if you leave all the settings the same.
23:29.34IriX64missing sdl gotta tend to that.
23:29.40``Eriklibsdl.org
23:29.44IriX64ty
23:33.19IriX64yum thanks ``Erik i'll let you know if I ever get it going btw is it fraught?
23:34.26IriX64you're supposed to say "there's just no arguing with a word like fraught" :)
23:35.25IriX64python is also needed.
23:36.38``Erik... yes, sdl and python are (sorta) needed, though I think rise itself doesn't use either
23:36.58IriX64getting python 2.5 now.
23:37.36``Erikn/m, rise observer uses sdl
23:37.44IriX64ah
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070225

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070225

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00:37.19IriX64sdl and python installed, adrt enabled, started a build lets see.
00:41.49``Erikif you want to be fast, you can cd src/adrt
00:41.51``Erikand make from there
00:42.01``Erikyou can do 'make depends' if you dont' have libbu built yet
00:43.50brlcadhe's not on cvs head so likely run into other stuff
00:44.04brlcadplus I think I removed the libbu dep
00:51.28``Erikoh
00:51.31``Erikeh?
00:51.58``Erikevery main() makes half an attempt to use bu_getopt()
00:53.17brlcadnot any more
00:53.24brlcadi undid that
00:54.55``Erikheh
00:55.17``Erikand here I figured it was going to become more integrated with BRL-CAD
01:01.20brlcadeventually..
01:01.37brlcadas soon as any of the libbu compatibility routines become a problem, it'll be a dep
01:01.47brlcadbut to just replace for the sake of replacing wasn't the intent
01:02.22brlcadas it is, adrt should/might still compile entirely stand-alone
01:08.24``Erikhm, is it getopt or getopt_long in there?
01:08.45brlcadjust getopt iirc
01:09.35``Erikah, all the bu_getopt stuff has been removed and the getopt_long is gaurded
01:09.36``Erikcool
02:19.24IriX64oooo, somethings missing in display.c
02:19.33IriX64all sorts of undefines.
02:19.40IriX64undefined.
02:19.48IriX64all _SDL stuff.
02:20.00brlcader, you have sdl installed?
02:20.04IriX64yes
02:20.24brlcadpresumably one of the first errors is something about not finding an SDL.h header I bet
02:20.37brlcadmight need to manually tweak CPPFLAGS
02:21.50IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371076
02:21.59``Erikand perhaps post config.log and the affected Makefile somewhere we can get to eventually
02:21.59IriX64its at link time for observer.
02:22.14``Erikhm
02:22.29``Erikwhere is libSDL.dll ?
02:22.34``Erik(or .so or .lib or whatevr)
02:22.48IriX64in local lib i think let me check.
02:23.35IriX64yeah all in there.
02:23.47IriX64configure found it ok.
02:24.13``Erikhm, in /usr/local/lib ?
02:24.15``Erikwhat's the filename?
02:24.50IriX64libsdl.a .la .ddl.a 3 of them.
02:25.06IriX64err dll.a
02:26.13IriX64still want config.log and the makefile ``Erik?
02:26.27``Erikall .a or .la, huh, that means static only, and you were trying to link it dynamically, I think... I'm not sure on cygwin link semantics
02:26.29``Eriknah
02:26.44IriX64ill remove shared.
02:29.01IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371084
02:29.15IriX64anything you want added/deleted from the config line?
02:31.13``Erikenable-adrt automatically enable sdl and python... the flags are more there for defining an unusual location
02:31.34``Erikdisable-symbols? disable-shared? O.o
02:31.55IriX64--disable-configure :P
02:32.02``Erikdisabling debugging and enabling optimizations are probably useless at this stage
02:32.05brlcaddisable shared works, but not so sure about the symbols one doing anything
02:32.32IriX64seem to remember seeing it somewhere.
02:32.39``Erikwhy disable shared?
02:32.45IriX64libraries
02:32.51brlcadyeah, you probably should leave off --enable-optimizations and --disable-debug and --di
02:32.54``Erikjust cuz you saw it "somewhere" doesnt' mean it works with BRL-CAD, homey
02:32.54brlcadsable-runtime-debugging
02:33.09``Erik./configure --help
02:33.17IriX64:D
02:33.18brlcaddisable shared works, and he actually needs it for cygwin.. some ld problem
02:33.29``Erikand the more flags you give it, the less 'normal' it is, so the less able we are to help... fyi... :)
02:33.35IriX64right want to make sure now.
02:33.50IriX64ty i didnt realize that.
02:35.06IriX64--disable-bug-reports ;)
02:35.09brlcad./configure --enable-everything --enable-adrt --disable-shared --prefix=/usr/cygcad    should be all you need
02:35.12``Eriklike, if you were using osX.4 with no flags, brlcad would be able to help you n/p... if you were using fbsd6 with no flags, I'd probably be able to help n/p... that's where we live, yo... the less like our environments you get, the less we're in the know
02:36.05IriX64good to know my nect build will just be ./configure --disable-shared.
02:36.12IriX64next too.
02:36.26IriX64liar ;)
02:36.33brlcadi regularly try a variety of flag settings, and different platforms, but it is true that os x would be one of the most familiar regardless
02:36.54IriX64motorola or apple?
02:37.01``Erik<-- does a bit on osX and linux, a tiny bit on solaris...
02:37.03``Erikuhhhh
02:37.09``Erikdo you mean ibm or intel?
02:37.14IriX64osx
02:37.29``Erik<-- uses both ibm/g[45] and intel/coreduo macs
02:37.59``Erikmost of my dev work is on a quad core opteron fbsd6.2 machine
02:38.02IriX64model 3800+
02:38.54IriX64we have 4 boxes in this house 2 laptops and 2 desktops, *I'm only "allowed" to use one.
02:39.12IriX64chilldren you know :)
02:44.55``Erikheh
02:45.19IriX64btw thats sposed to read "WunderBox" :)
02:45.24``Eriks/his h/in h/
02:49.01IriX64you're "state of the art" then ``Erik.
02:50.27IriX64oon the other hand the one i'm using has a gig of main mem and 200gig drive :)
02:52.07IriX64already used 44gigs.
02:52.32``Erikhrm, all three of my laptops have 2g ram a pop, and my fbsd box downstairs has around .5tb used
02:52.45``Erikso, uh, put it away, dude :D there's always someone with a bigger one
02:52.49IriX64whoa:)
02:53.26IriX64penvy hah.
02:58.24IriX64need some of natures wine, bbiab.
03:07.06Twingyoh yea, my PIC chip has 768 bytes of RAM, so nya!
03:09.49``Erikgood old 16f88's
03:10.13Twingythe 18F4620's are quite nice
03:10.20Twingy32kB program, 2kB RAM, 1kB eeprom
03:13.50IriX64did I really say cursor.c ``Erik?
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09:38.01clock_win 11
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15:05.21lg_hi...
15:16.59louipchello
15:17.43lg_a, someone alive there ;-)
15:18.52louipcthis channel is pretty active, but only at certain times and I don't think they're regular
15:19.07``Erikyeah, we need to eat more fiber :/
15:20.21louipchah
16:57.43brlcadhehe
17:01.42``ErikI'm gonna destroy the toilets at work, yo
18:07.26IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371833
18:15.28IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371844  <==== this is the one that gets me :)
18:17.00IriX64``Erik, it produces MZ files :)
18:17.21``Erikuh huh?
18:17.34``Erikiirc, MZ is old dos executables (like .com files) and PE is windows stuff
18:18.06``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EXE
18:18.16MaloeranAnd "PE" stands for "Portable Executable" amusingly
18:18.21MaloeranPortable to windows and windows
18:18.42``Erikthere we go, mz is the old dos executable, then new dos is NE,  then a couple os/2 ones (LE and LX), ... then PE
18:19.25``Erikonce upon a time, windows ran on non-x86 platforms...
18:19.31``Erikthat's where the 'portable' comes from
18:19.42``Erika buddy of mine had NT on an alpha, heh
18:19.46IriX64``erik my mged is a PE file.
18:20.12``Erikas it should be...
18:20.45IriX64and is :)
18:21.28IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371853
18:21.53IriX64alphas were sometimes shipped with NT ``Erik.
18:24.02``Erikthe interesting part was that they did dynamic machine code translation, iirc
18:24.23``Erikso you could run an 'x86' program, and the first time you did, it'd take a long time to start up, then would run as native alpha machine code from then on
18:24.26IriX64alpha/nt?
18:24.41``Erikyeah
18:24.53IriX64didn't play with it overly long, just got the serial ports running.
18:25.33IriX64nice little box though :)
18:36.53IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371861  <=== IriX64 laff's hysterically.
18:37.42IriX64winix is born :P
18:44.35IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371879 <=== last one, won't bug you with it again.
18:54.38IriX64now who's going to translate all those auto* tools to .bat land ;)
19:00.32brlcadi hear a volunteer!
19:03.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: autoconf was complaining about AM_C_PROTOTYPES being called after AC_C_INLINE and AC_C_CONST, so move it up before them
19:06.58IriX64tie him to the typer quick :)
19:07.52IriX64errr you heard that silent plea for help and you do this to me? :P
19:10.30MaloeranI need input on a theory. This new box doesn't have a sound chip. If I were to forward a /dev/dsp socket to write to the /dev/dsp of another box, I would effectively be redirecting all audio output to the other machine's. Correct?
19:12.46IriX64why not throw in a cheap sound card?
19:13.04IriX6445$ canadian gets you a pci soundblaster.
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19:42.50IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371946  <== Where I want to go with this thing, at the moment she just "looks" pretty :)
19:57.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371970 < now I return to ruminating just how big angels wings must be :)
19:57.56IriX64btw, it works in both environments, admittly I rely on cygwin but still...
19:58.22``Erik'both' environment? O.o
19:58.36IriX64:)
20:03.35IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/371979 <=== I'll shut up now, cheers.
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20:29.38MaloeranJust for the record, redirecting /dev/dsp worked nicely
20:37.50``Erikbah, fucking snow
20:42.23``Erik...
20:42.44IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/372055  <=== ``Erik, recognize this one?
20:44.02IriX64hahahah this is an OS/2 32 bit executable.
20:49.03IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php
21:01.42IriX64TurboC high on Cygwin hehe.
21:13.35IriX64btw pretty.exe produced by that TC ran in the cygwin environment stand alone.
21:17.05MaloeranSuch a strange person
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22:30.24MaloeranI just noticed something. When the raytracing demo renders 100fps at 800x600, only ~30% of the cpus time is spent raytracing, the rest is "idle" ( according to 'top' )
22:31.16MaloeranI'm guessing it's SDL's surface blitting being a serious bottleneck
22:32.40MaloeranNevermind, SDL is just a small part of it.  Blocking until the frame is complete instead of pushing and buffering several frames at the same time is the problem
22:40.06IriX64farkles, does BRL-CAD support building share *and static libs on the same run?
22:47.07brlcadIriX64: of course it does, and is what it does by default
22:50.59IriX64ty lucy :)
22:51.55brlcadseriously, you know the issue with cygwin .. if you're not going to investigate properly, why do you ask?
22:53.41IriX64seperate thread for everybody? ie main launches them all and waits?
22:54.37MaloeranThe proper is at the end of a frame, only a handful of threads might still be working, the others are done and there's no work left for this frame
22:55.14MaloeranIn practice, I can't get my cpu use above 80% with 8 cores
22:55.23brlcadyou're just now running into this problem?
22:55.26IriX64have it wait on a universal done signale, ok got yours now i reset the flag and wait again.
22:55.48``Erikhe just now got enough hw to find the problem...
22:55.50MaloeranYes brlcad, it was not much of an issue with just 2 cores
22:56.10MaloeranIt's not a problem with the engine, just the demos
22:56.27brlcadI know, i'm just a bit surprised
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070226

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070226

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02:15.45``Erikhttp://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=797
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02:18.06IriX64www.spaces.live.com/IriX64
05:13.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
05:13.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: major modification, now supporting projects that don't use one or more of the
05:13.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: various autotools (e.g. not using automake, libtool, autoheader, libtool). also
05:13.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: now supports projects that have recursive configures that go more than one level
05:13.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: deep.
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09:00.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: support projects that use the older/deprecated arg-less AC_INIT and instead search for an AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE declaration hopefully instead. also fix a couple missing 'no' typos during manual processing.
09:05.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: some versions of automake report apple's dumb libtoolize problem differently, so try to be more general.
09:05.38clock_brlcad: does BRL-CAD work on Apple as well?
09:07.09brlcadpresume you mean non-mac os x apple?
09:07.53brlcadthere have been several ports of brl-cad to older apples running various unices, including the Apple II
09:08.18clock_I mean modern apple with their mac os x
09:08.27brlcadoh, of course
09:08.34clock_cool portable :)
09:09.00brlcadit's (arguably) one of the core platforms consistently tested (along with a couple other OSs)
09:09.29brlcadhappens to integrate rather well actually
09:10.31brlcadI did the initial port to Mac OS X during the early Pre Beta days
09:12.34brlcadit took me less than a half an hour to get just about everything up and running not including compile time (which was about an hour back then) .. circa end of 2000
09:14.15brlcadanother hour after that, I had smp and multithreading working, and this was all using the old build system -- which was considerly more painful than the one we have now to modify
09:21.21clock_along with couple of OSes :)
09:22.08clock_In Linux world it usually works the way that the core developer tests it on the single Linux distribution he happens to have on his desktop and then pronounces it portable
09:22.12clock_and then in fact it works only on some Linux distros.
09:22.54clock_Well BRL-CAD is a serious piece of software developed for 30 years by U. S. Army :)
09:23.17CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: add bu_same_file() routine to determine whether two file names are indeed the same file or not. presently, the routine falls back to stat() to compare the inode numbers of the files in question
09:23.19clock_OK 28 years
09:23.28clock_Actually BRL-CAD is as old as I am :)
09:24.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add bu_same_file() declaration so we can use it in places
09:25.53brlcadif you have the readme handy, it shows some of the portability heritage
09:28.38brlcadbrl-cad's one of a few pieces of software (mostly limited to compilers, editors, operating systems) that has been "extensively portable" .. predating things like TCP, graphical displays, coding standards (ansi and posix) yet surviving and adapting to them all
09:30.48brlcadthere actually used to be checks in the code for "is there tcp/ip networking api facilities available" .. and "does the floating point math behave like a cray 2"
09:38.17CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/stat.c): add the similar routine bu_same_fd() to compare two file descriptors returned by open()
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10:51.01Baritonhi
10:51.10Baritonis it possible to export the framebuffer as image? for example as png?
10:56.31Baritonanybody online?
11:19.05Baritonhey?!?!
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14:08.30Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6396925.stm   -  Almost seems fun to play
14:14.33brlcadheh
14:15.10archivistsome sad people about
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17:43.54lg_hi...
17:57.34MaloeranHi again, brlcad should be able to answer any question you may have this time ;)
17:57.55lg_;-)
17:58.21lg_i will try to describe
18:01.55lg_basically I was wondering if there is some way to "round" edges
18:02.56lg_the only way I could figure out so far is to cut away the corner and union a cylinder
18:07.22lg_in my case, as I want to round edges following rips of a dome (it is for an architectural model), I would have to cut away rings and "fill" with a torus
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18:28.33IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/373296  << anybody know what this is about?
18:34.33IriX64took silent off, tells me nothing other than its trying to link against it
18:36.44IriX64awww cmon, I took lgl2 outta the makefile, its still erroring out on it.
18:49.16IriX64configure finds glenable.
18:50.28IriX64but opengl is not functionally available.
18:58.47``Eriklg: you could also build a 'cutter' by intersecting and arb and a cylinder or whatever and use that to difference on your geometry *shrug* but yeah, there is no explicit 'bevel' operation to my knowledge
18:59.32``Erikif you can do tcl or C, you can do something like a procdb to automate some of that for you, though *shrug*
19:17.30lg_sorry erik, i am back, my flatmate had been occupying the computer ;-)
19:18.43lg_i guess manually doing this is easier now, as i do not have that many edges to round
19:20.07lg_the hard work is to construct all the midpoints and intersections before
19:38.17lg_see you later, i need a restart now to connect my stupid bluetooth donge, I would like to be able to rotate the view so that I can read the result of labelvert... ;-)
19:39.15*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222)
19:41.36brlcadahh. just missed em
19:48.51*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.103)
20:13.21``Erikheh, why, was I wrong about something? or is there a clever trick I don't know? :D
20:17.49``Erikyeah, but I like to at least pretend that I'm right once in a while ;)
20:18.10IriX64especially if you're right *most of the time ;)
20:20.55MaloeranMmhm, 80 million rays per second on the very old m1a2. I still remember the first time I broke through 500k, then one million
20:22.04``Erikdifferent hw, though...
20:24.20Maloeran*nods* Of course
20:24.50MaloeranHad any chance to quickly see if things run on big endian?
20:27.04``Erikoh, lemme update
20:33.42``Erikhuh, it fails on opteron linux
20:33.45``Erik"list empty"
20:33.53MaloeranEh?
20:34.15MaloeranOh, context creation failed, your $DISPLAY variable again?
20:34.24``Erik$ uname -m -s -v
20:34.25``ErikLinux #1 SMP Mon Sep 25 17:24:31 EDT 2006 x86_64
20:34.37``Erikahh
20:35.38``Erikshould the rtgc be endian portable?
20:35.45MaloeranYes
20:36.44``Erikok, with a fresh cache built, it works on g5, but is still yellow
20:37.14MaloeranDarn :), need to look into that bit format code again
20:37.18Maloeran*nods* Right, try that
20:37.36MaloeranSo the text printing works on big endian too? Good
20:37.47``Erikhm, beachballing so far...
20:37.49``Eriktext printing?
20:38.18MaloeranDon't you see text over the viewport? File font00.imtx?
20:38.40``Erikas I assume you store in something other than network order...
20:39.12MaloeranI store everything in whatever the local machine saves as, but the loading code can read both native and flipped endian
20:39.12``Erik<-- runs out of dir, didn't link the font map in
20:39.24MaloeranTry with the font file please
20:39.38``Erikworks on the opteron/linux box
20:42.18``Erikbig endian shows text, red and yellow...
20:42.28MaloeranEheh okay
20:42.42MaloeranAnd the models still are yellow, neat
20:43.20``Erikuhhh, hrm
20:43.21``Erikit stopped
20:43.26``Eriksystem load went away
20:43.42``Erikand rfdemo is beach-balled
20:43.55MaloeranStopped? Deadlock?
20:44.14``Erik*shrug* can't tell exactly wat it's doing, but ti's not responsind
20:45.07``Erikdidn't like sigterm, had to sigkill it
20:45.56MaloeranAhh, it's still yellow because SDL doesn't set the format alpha channel mask member
20:50.12``Erikhm, that time it didn't lock up :/
20:50.31MaloeranSo there's a lock glitch somewhere
20:56.35``Erikbrlcad, jlo is lookin' for you
20:59.38MaloeranIf you ever manage to see that lock happen again, a backtrace would be much appreciated. I would have suggested to enable RF_THREAD_DEBUG to get a clear log, but I guess it's way too rare for that
21:09.06CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: massive cleanup, ws, indentation, rewrite some of the _WIN32 sections so there are fewer duplicate code sections. add a display_error function to report the windows read error via a dialog bog
21:09.11*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:15.30MaloeranAh, OSX already has Spin Control and Thread Viewer for that kind of stuff
21:15.44brlcad``Erik: nah, you weren't wrong -- you do the CSG manually to round edges
21:16.17brlcadthere are a couple commands to automatically do this for you for arbs and perhaps cylinders iirc
21:23.13brlcadahh, here we go.. rcc-tor, rpp-arch, & rcc-cap
21:23.37brlcadall apply a different sort of rounnding
21:57.07``Erikjason has a class for simd vector math he wants to shove in for nurbs, but wanted to talk to you before making directories for some reason
21:57.26``Erik(a c++ class... *shudder* be nice if we could de-c++ opennurbs O:-) )
22:04.13brlcadheh, de-c++ about 200k lines of code?  i think not...
22:09.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: use bu_same_file() instead of stat() directly to compare whether the saveview script database and the current database are the same file
22:27.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/canonize.1: fact that it uses stat(2) is inconsequential
22:28.06``Erikhm, the first c++ 'compilers' were preprocessers to generate C code... I d'not what features opennurbs uses
22:28.27*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca)
22:29.09IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/373648 <---- milestone :)
22:29.44``Erikhttp://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=1671
22:30.50IriX64hobbits? they....
22:30.58IriX64:)
22:32.32IriX64xgcc rulz ;)
22:36.31IriX64do you know how many scripts hardcode gcc in them?
22:38.29IriX64``Erik , another angle of havoc, www.spaces.live.com/IriX64
22:38.50brlcadIriX64: make LDFLAGS=--verbose
22:39.17IriX64Id be swamped with output :)
22:39.18brlcadsee if you can figure out why libpng/libz fail when you enable shared
22:39.41IriX64told you thats gotta be mine, im not worried bout it for now.
22:39.46brlcadso just compile until it fails with that empty error without it, and then cd src/other && make LDFLAGS=...
22:40.17IriX64its *not brlcad does the same with apache.
22:40.26brlcadit's not necessarily just yours -- I had some issue with using a shared (system) libz last time I compiled on cygwin
22:41.03brlcadit wasn't the same as your issue, but similar
22:41.12IriX64ermf ill try it soon as i get this other build attempt out of the way, may be a couple of hours but i will do be patient.
22:45.14brlcadno rush, but it could be informative
22:45.39IriX64canceled the build configuring now.
22:46.36IriX64building shared and static as before.
22:51.13IriX64this is peculiar it wants to build zlib, but i have a system zlib.
22:54.58IriX64just a second ../../..src/other/libz/libz.la    ??????
22:55.16IriX64shouldnt that be lo?
22:56.21IriX64erf why do i do the same with apache tho, still points to me brlcad.
22:56.41IriX64ill find it later
22:56.58IriX64right now i want to see -sharedlib test
23:02.41IriX64libz.la is a link that points to ../libz.la    libz.so is a link that points to libz.so.1.1.4
23:04.28IriX64``Erik? using msvc7? I'd be curious to see how that goes.
23:04.33``Erikcygwin
23:04.50IriX64;)
23:06.10IriX64remember to start with the Cygnus Solutions first and patch your way up :P
23:06.17IriX64archive.
23:07.30``Erikcygwin is installed on my xp box, it just doesn't have network connectivity to get the most recent src
23:11.41*** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222)
23:12.22lg_good night out there, here it is one p.m. now
23:13.16*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222)
23:13.24IriX64crossgcc has a new patch.
23:13.31IriX64theirs not mine.
23:13.46IriX64ftp://ftp.cygwin.com
23:23.48``Erikhttp://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejvdkuyp/flash/see.htm
23:28.38brlcadheh
23:45.33IriX64heh indeed.
23:53.30IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/373759      <<==== Cassandra dancing :)
23:56.04IriX64when Cassandra dances, sparcs fly ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070227

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070227

00:10.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: prevent crashes if termcap is asked to perform a tgetnum() after a tgetent() fails
00:13.01IriX64it bounces, cause i'm a rubber necker
00:26.57IriX64that ultrasparc do solaris64?
00:28.54``Erik.... don't they all?
00:29.22IriX64interesting, a sparc32 running solaris64, quick call Sun Microsystems :)
00:29.36``Erikultra is the v9, they're all 64b
00:30.38``Erikthey can run 32b code... but the core can do 64b... :)
00:31.14IriX64you and Maloeran and you're cores, dunno how to talk  to you :)
00:31.58``Erikwe used to say 'chip' before the multi-core chips started showing up...
00:32.08``Erikand in some arenas, alu is more accurate
00:32.09``Erik*shrug*
00:32.23``Erikheh, nybbles
00:32.25IriX64industrial its all alu or used to be.
00:32.42IriX64vic forever.
00:32.45``Erikalu is just part of a core, though
00:32.58Twingycommadores were a 70's band no?
00:33.09``Erikcache and mmu's and stuff get slapped in, too
00:33.21IriX64it could be argued that the core comprimises the entire system
00:33.28IriX64beat me to it :)
00:33.53``Erikyeah, twinky, but their mommies dressed them funny ;)
00:37.02IriX64ka-click -- 128bit xfer.
00:38.00IriX64how would you do parallel pipling ``Erik, or maybe we should first define pipeling.
00:38.13IriX64piplining too.
00:38.23IriX64bother
00:38.38TwingyI need like 50 pounds of play-doh
00:38.51IriX64to plug something obviously.
00:39.05IriX64make your own, flour and water.
00:41.11IriX64``Erik, the bird of discretion just whispered in my ear ;)
00:42.44IriX64louipc my hardly *nix system rendered havoc at a new angle, visit www.spaces.live.com/Irix64
00:44.49``Erik...
00:45.00``Erikback off the wallcandy, dude
00:45.15IriX64urf blacklisted?
00:45.34IriX64will tend to it.
00:47.54``Erikif you want to get the same angle every time, check out the 'ae' command
00:49.02IriX64got it.
00:50.49``Erikhm, "help" shows a list of commands
00:51.14IriX64I always overlook the obvious for some reason :)
00:51.26``Erik(and that's not even all of them)
00:51.44IriX64he just do a ls is that right in the bin dir?
00:51.50IriX64heh i mean.
00:52.45``Erika lot of the programs in bin/ have commands in the tcl interpreter in mged, but there're other commands that don't have a bin/ correlary
00:53.21IriX64so moral of the story is "IriX64, just take a look in all those lovely direcories".
00:53.36``Erikmore like "rtfm"
00:53.36``Erik:D
00:56.52brlcadahhhh, finally found out why jove is now busted on os x
00:58.12``Erikit's an emacs variant, it's broken by design O:-)
00:59.58``Erikit's been so long since I learned vi, I don't remember if I was as dysfunctional initially as I am with emacs now... :/
01:00.28brlcadit's barely a variant
01:01.36brlcadI had a cheat sheet sitting on my desk for about a week of non-stop coding before it became effective
01:01.51brlcadbut then also by then, nothing else could compete
01:02.03brlcadand it just got better and better
01:02.40``Erik<-- still learning more about vi o.O
01:03.24louipcread the fine manual ;)
01:32.23``Erikhttp://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=08222002
01:32.24``Erikhehehe
03:06.05*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca)
03:06.56IriX64This windows archer.... it's quite interesting.
03:07.53IriX64are you planning on putting photon mapping into it?
03:08.27brlcadi believe the ray-tracer is already integrated, just a matter of feeding it the right options
03:08.39brlcadthere's no gui if that's what you mean, like the lighting menu in mged
03:08.52IriX64urmf, i'll learn, I just started looking at it.
03:09.15brlcadit's good stuff, it should be improved and integrated more with mged
03:09.34IriX64agreed, some really good work here.
03:11.01IriX64the ability to extract selected components and color them is neat.
03:12.56IriX64s.nos1 in blue... nice.
03:15.16IriX64hahah s.nos1 rt'ed beautiful job.
03:32.23*** part/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca)
03:35.23*** join/#brlcad bewt (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca)
03:35.57bewtwas worried people would think I know something about the IriX64 system.
03:39.03``Erikheh
03:52.53CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/other/jove/teach-jove.in): add automatic generation of the teach-jove script during configure
03:53.05bewtlibtool, it's gotta be libtool. :(
04:14.18bewtsorry i mentioned apache here but brlcad is sometimes too big :)
04:14.27bewterr BRL-CAD.
04:16.30bewtbah i quit, it wasn't libtool.
04:23.31bewttried it showed me nothing, but here's something, the rev on libapr-0.la doesn't mach the libtool i'm using.
04:25.53bewtand their ltmain bombs.
04:28.55*** join/#brlcad cad19 (n=59ac9221@bz.bzflag.bz)
05:17.57MaloeranAm I missing something or there's no efficient way to do triple or N buffering with SDL?
05:45.50MaloeranThere's no way around the extra and wasteful copy from a frame surface to the pseudo-video surface, which in turn needs a copy to the actual video surface to be visible. Oh well, that wouldn't be a problem with X shared memory pixmaps
05:52.36brlcadit does it that way because you can't necessarily get access to the video surface
05:52.50brlcaddepends on the video card and driver heavily
05:53.34brlcadso they do what works regardless (and apparently haven't gotten to an optimization of doing the direct blit when possible, though that has it's tradeoffs)
05:54.00*** join/#brlcad bewt (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca)
05:55.05brlcadyou can do triple, N buffering, but not without getting a handle on the SDL internal for whatever platform you're on
05:55.38brlcadand if you're going to go that route, might as well write your own X code and forget portability
05:56.59MaloeranSDL could have exposed capabilities to do N buffering without too much trouble, it would always have avoided the extra copy no matter the platform
05:58.55MaloeranHaving one software surface being copied to the video surface, or having multiple software surfaces being copied in turn, it's pretty much the same really
05:59.44brlcadand i'm sure you would have heard "patches welcome"
05:59.51brlcadsounds like a great feature, implement it ;)
06:00.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
06:00.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: hmm.. such a conundrum.. it is nice to clean up and blow away the aclocal.m4
06:00.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: that configure drops in but now that recursive configure works, tcl/tk actually
06:00.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: use their own custom aclocal.m4 (instead of acinclude.m4) so deleting the file
06:00.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: has undesireable impact on build prep. disable aclocal.m4 deletion for now.
06:00.42brlcadreality is that it's quite a bit more complicated than you give it credit for to do reliably across various cards and without undesirable impact
06:01.27MaloeranIt's purely a software, API and logic problem really...
06:01.44brlcadsay you were on a card that actually a) had a means to get at video memory that you could b) reliably detect via sdl/opengl facilities .. as to whether to use it
06:02.22Maloeranbrlcad, all the surfaces can be in system memory, you just need to be able to copy from any of the directly to the video surface
06:02.26bewt``Erik, private wall candy is getting better ;)
06:02.28brlcadthen take for example you have a card that only has 16 or 32 MB of memory.. you could perhaps do in-memory buffering, but leaving little to nothing to the app
06:03.00Maloeranany of them* directly
06:03.07brlcadMaloeran: sure, they can all be in memory -- that's what they do for double buffering now iirc
06:03.29brlcadsystem memory that is
06:03.39MaloeranYes, and there's absolutely no reason not to allow triple, quad or quntillion buffering if one has the system memory for it
06:03.48bewtbrlcad, virtual memory comes to mind, but then so does disk thrashing.
06:03.52brlcadeven better is to actually write directly to video memory if you wanted to tune for the best performance
06:04.19MaloeranIt's better to write pixels to system memory and DMA the whole thing afterwards
06:04.32brlcadif that is available, sure
06:04.55bewterr a pixel has numerous bits.
06:05.11bewtyou would slow it down using DMA.
06:05.44MaloeranOh well, copying 150 frames of 800x600 twice per second instead of once does not sound appealing, just because of a SDL limitation
06:05.55bewtDVA is preferred but certainly not portable.
06:06.02brlcadMaloeran: if I remember back correctly, you can create your own sdl surfaces and do your own buffering too, providing your quintillion buffering
06:06.41MaloeranReally? Any clue on what to look for? I really didn't see anything like that
06:07.28MaloeranYou can create surfaces, but to actually get them to show on the screen, you would have to : copy them to the SDL's "screen" surface, ask SDL to copy the "screen" surface to the actual video surface
06:07.58brlcadyou create an sdl sw surface, and then use that with sdl_flip
06:08.21brlcadyou can toggle between arbitrary surfaces on a flip
06:08.21MaloeranSDL_flip is for the one double buffered "screen" surface
06:09.10MaloeranSDL_Flip() takes one parameter and it's SDL's "screen" surface which may have a back buffer built-in, but that's very limited
06:10.24brlcadthat's what I'm referring too .. this goes back a while, but the idea is to create multiple sdl_surface screens in sw mode
06:11.03MaloeranThere's no way to render these without copying them to "screen", then asking SDL to update "screen" to video, is there?
06:11.04brlcadthey the video mode has to be double buffered regardless, just so you can flip
06:11.33MaloeranCreate multiple screen surfaces? Oh hum
06:11.35brlcadyou maintain one "screen" for each of your surfaces
06:11.39brlcadright
06:12.06MaloeranI didn't read anything about that, I'll try something
06:12.17brlcadthat's just the old sdl way to do your own buffering
06:12.17MaloeranIf you have any example or documentation, it could be nice
06:12.26brlcade.g. if you had no video memory
06:12.34brlcadideally, you'd try to get as many screens with SDL_HWSURFACE first
06:13.05brlcadsince should try to do direct mapped video memory if the card supports it
06:13.24brlcadbut the code is a bit nasty to be fault tolerance to detect the failure and fall back to SDL_SWSURFACE
06:13.33MaloeranWriting pixels to hardware surfaces is a bit too slow, I'm fine with them being in software
06:13.43brlcadand then wierd things can happen if you have two hw and one sw, etc
06:13.44MaloeranI just want them to get directly in the real video surface with just one copy
06:14.33brlcadif you're doing your own buffering, the hw surface is going to be darn faster than doing sw -- you're just making sdl do the write to a hw surface
06:16.10MaloeranYes, that's probably right... HW only works fullscreen though, usually, but I'll play around once I get the buffering working
06:16.34MaloeranI'm surprised there's not a word about this in the SDL docs
06:16.40brlcadahh, yeah that's true.. lots of cards won't let you get a hw surface in various modes
06:16.49brlcadthat's part of the whole robustness problem i mentioned
06:20.04brlcadMaloeran: it's rare for an app to actually benefit from triple buffering .. exceedingly rare even for games
06:20.52brlcadand many display systems are providing double-buffering of their own these days, so you get triple for free when you double-buffer your own
06:21.33MaloeranIndeed, but it's a different when dealing with software rendering multiple frames at the same time
06:21.34brlcaddepends on the OS and system, of course .. not too common on linux iirc
06:23.28Maloerana bit* different
06:24.17brlcadyep, and the variety of apps that need to render frames is a tiny "market"
06:25.02brlcadray-tracers .. fractal generators .. maybe screensavers..
06:25.27bewtbrlcad: my on board video cheats, it uses system ram for video memory.
06:25.33brlcadi think what you're wanting to do used to be a lot more popular a decade or two ago
06:25.47brlcadwhen you couldn't get the hardware to double-buffer
06:26.43brlcadbewt: yep, pretty common to push the app to video so the mod can modify the frames on the fly
06:26.58bewtreserved for video 64-256m
06:27.02MaloeranOther APIs have good support for that kind of stuff, it was rather trivial with X and... DX3 ( okay, a long time ago :) )
06:27.35brlcadyeah, it's fairly trivial in win32 and with cocoa ..
06:28.49brlcadanother side effect of there not being many serious games on linux .. issues like this have always been a problem -- X11 being an absolute pig in most respects until very very recently
06:29.56MaloeranX isn't that bad with shared memory pixmaps
06:30.16bewtX isn't bad with opengl either.
06:30.31brlcadheh, compared to the other systems, X11 is one of the worst
06:30.41bewtdefine other systems.
06:30.44brlcadit's really been only in the past 5-10 years that it's improved
06:31.06brlcadcloser to 5 for that matter, Xorg corrected a lot of the boneheadness of X11
06:31.09bewtgranted, but many systems go thru a learning/growing curve.
06:31.27bewtlook at the roots of windows :)
06:31.33brlcadthat doesn't hold for X11, it's older than all of the others
06:31.44MaloeranAh well. That's probably right, but I was beginning high school 10 years ago and writing my first lines of code :)
06:31.53bewtso X is a little slow, big deal
06:32.09brlcadheck, even having shared memory on linux used to be problematic
06:32.44brlcadit's only been really recent that you could get direct opengl access through X11, and it's still somewhat flaky
06:32.50bewtX was at inception problematic, but then so was the Model T
06:33.10bewttry it on windows xp pro
06:33.29brlcadI dont' think it was "problematic", but it was fundamentally flawed from a performance perspective because it had a network-oriented design
06:34.09bewtthat network design led to many Xterminal, (X in hardware at least the client side)
06:34.11MaloeranIt's far more complex than other APIs for this reason, but it's still rather elegant, I have no problem with it
06:34.15brlcadwhen everything is a client->server->client->hw communication .. you're going to seriously suck compared to something doing app->hw
06:34.33brlcadit's been recent that X11 changed so that you could do client->hw more reliably
06:34.42bewtthat should read app->os>hardware
06:34.54brlcadelegant? .. heh .. er .. wow
06:35.06brlcadcomprehensive.. yes
06:35.12brlcadi wouldn't call it elegant in the least though
06:35.13MaloeranIt solves a fairly complex problem
06:35.26bewtquite well at that
06:35.27brlcadit makes the problem considerably more complex than it needs tob e
06:36.21brlcadit does have a lot of great aspects, that can be said
06:36.51MaloeranRight
06:36.54bewtmaking the root window, hidden makes it faster yet
06:37.15brlcadbut from an overall utility, and compared to the other APIs out there, it's a big reason GUI development on linux/unix/bsd has been so slow for two decades compared to the other platforms
06:37.54MaloeranIs there? X is extremely low-level in comparison to other "native" APIs, one generally uses toolkits built on top of it
06:37.55brlcadgranted, a lot of the problems were actually political, and not technical
06:39.24bewtand not a very good one :)
06:40.32brlcadi'm talking about equivalent "base" api kits for managing the display -- things like core graphics or even the old toolbox on mac, the mfc/win32 foundation libraries, be's graphic server, etc
06:40.35MaloeranI think I just really like the low-level and flexibility aspects of X, it's really powerful.  It's the assembly of GUI programming ;)
06:41.04Maloeranwin32 remains quite a mess, but it's very limiting and high-level, it can afford to be simpler
06:41.22brlcadwin32 goes high and low
06:41.30brlcadwhich is what makes it seem not simple
06:41.52brlcadthere are calls for everything low level too, though
06:42.12bewtsadly no more inportb()
06:42.16MaloeranAh yes, perhaps, I try to forget my win32 days
06:42.49brlcadthe other two are much better examples of pretty APIs, clean low fast nice
06:43.15brlcadBe's was spectacular, but alas..
06:43.18bewtwould that they would adopt a universal API
06:44.00brlcadbewt: how's that compile coming with LDFLAGS=-verbose ?
06:44.01MaloeranBeOS and its famous is_computer_on_fire() :). I never tried any native Mac programming
06:44.13MaloeranIn fact, I think I never used a Mac
06:44.58brlcadcore graphics isn't too shabby
06:46.29brlcadcocoa is sweet, but is a higher level api akin to gtk/qt
06:47.05Maloerangtk2 I liked, but I don't do much GUI
06:49.53brlcadit's a bit of a beast, and lives in dependency hell, but great featureset
06:50.03brlcadand the predominant industry momentum
07:59.46bewtbrlcad: building rt for you now.
07:59.53bewterr rtlib.
08:00.09bewtdoh librt.
08:03.59IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/374105
08:06.11IriX64btw, that wall candy is still doing its thing.
08:11.41IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/374109
08:22.18brlcadlibrt is not the situation that was causing problems
08:22.46brlcadyou're starting from flawed premises.. you can't just start tossing stuff in the middle like that
08:23.54brlcadfrom a *fresh* build .. the point was to add the --verbose ld flag *after* you encountered the libz and/or libpng build failure (*without* using --disable-shared)
08:24.46brlcadseriously.. all the rest is distracting from making any progress on identifying the first problem ..
08:25.10brlcadstuff failing farther down the build line is not interesting at all until the first failure is taken care of properly
08:25.30IriX64whats the point of adding the flag *after the error with libpng
09:07.31brlcadfor several reasons, to be sure that it errors (it should still error), and so that the output is just the relevant verbose linkage details and not pages of irrelevant log
09:08.29brlcadotherwise the signal noise ratio begins to be practically useless -- too much useless garbage that doesn't get us anywhere closer to finding out what the actual problem is
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12:16.13dliI wonder how do I show screw thread in brlcad
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12:42.41dlihow do I print out the 3d image?
12:43.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: test for strlcpy
12:46.48CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: initial addition of strlcpy()
12:48.30CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h:
12:48.30CIA-7BRL-CAD: initial addition of strlcpy()
12:48.30CIA-7BRL-CAD: typo in basename declaration
12:50.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: HAVE_MEMSET and HAVE_STRTOK added
12:52.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c:
12:52.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: errno.h defines ENAMETOOLONG
12:52.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: should know its own prototype
12:54.39CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: should know its own prototype
12:56.28CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: basename.c and strlcpy.c added
12:57.36CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: strlcpy.c added
13:03.57CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: include sysv.h to get the basename prototype (in case HAVE_BASENAME is not defined)
13:09.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Added mutex protection for session open and close
13:31.40rossbergdli: what's a 3d image?
13:31.59dlirossberg, from raytracing
13:32.43dlirendering as postscript is ugly, and not what I see on screen
13:35.05rossbergi'm using the ray trace panel in mged, it has an option to write the result into a *.pix file
13:35.40dlirossberg, howto?
13:35.53rossbergthere are programs to convert the pix format e.g. into png
13:36.19dlirossberg, how to output to .pix?
13:36.51rossbergmenubar -> Tools -> Raytrace Control Panel
13:38.06rossbergthere you have to change the "Destination"
13:38.15dlirossberg, that's the same panel as in File ->Raytrace
13:38.46dlirossberg, great, thanks
13:49.14dlirossberg, the .pix is not valid for imagemagick
13:51.26rossbergdli: you need to convert it e.g. with pix-png
13:51.47rossberg(look at man pix-png first)
13:52.31dlirossberg, no, the file generated is invalid, repeating 0x320000 , nothing else
13:52.53dliindeed, it's 0x000032
13:53.04Maloeranbrlcad, multiple calls to create "screen" surfaces to perform N buffering always return the same surface ; doesn't seem to be the recommended method
13:56.00rossbergdli: did you tried "pix-png -a yourfile.pix > yourfile.png
13:56.41MaloeranThe #sdl crowd doesn't seem to know either
13:57.01dlirossberg, only garbage in the .png generated
13:58.14dlirossberg, hold on, it's not all 0x000032
13:59.21dli<PROTECTED>
13:59.22dlipix-png: unable to autosize
14:05.56rossbergdli: ok, now try pix-png -w <width in pixel> -n <height in pixel> sample-holder.pix > sample-holder.png
14:07.23dlirossberg, great, it's an imagemagick bug then
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14:25.39Elperionis there a way to export the framebuffer as graphic?
14:34.38rossbergElperion: (menubar)File -> Raytrace; change "Destination" to pix-file; read the pix-png manual page
14:36.01Elperionok thx
14:36.24Elperiongreat
14:36.27Elperioni never looked there
14:36.28Elperioncya
15:08.52dliany way to move a part ( .r  range)? like linear shift
15:56.01``Erikint32 is_computer_on(void)   Returns 1 if the computer is on. If the computer isn't on, the value returned by this function is undefined.
15:56.12``Erikdouble is_computer_on_fire(void)   Returns the temperature of the motherboard if the computer is currently on fire. If the computer isn't on fire, the function returns some other value.
15:56.23``Erikinteresting, those beos kids have a sense of humor :)
16:40.53brlcadwow, the same question twice in one morning
16:44.10Maloeranbrlcad, confirmed by SDL folks, SDL can't do N buffering without nasty extra copies
16:45.20brlcadMaloeran: define "nasty extra copies"
16:45.37MaloeranCopy from surface N to "screen" surface, copy from "screen" surface to video memory
16:46.01MaloeranSo there are 2 copies per frame when only one should be required with a proper API
16:47.09MaloeranI'm vaguely amused by how much faster non-SDL buffering to record videos is
18:48.49brlcadMaloeran: er .. you only get the one copy with some sort of direct memory access, mapping video memory to some address range in system memory
18:49.36brlcadthat much was already pretty much guaranteed to not be portably possible
18:49.40brlcadI thought you understood that just from what we talked about earlier..
18:50.14brlcadthat's why they are SDL_SWSURFACEs
18:51.42brlcadyou cannot guarantee just one copy without having the hardware capability irrsepective of the API (which maybe is what you are presuming/assuming)
18:54.14Maloeranbrlcad, SDL can copy the content of the software "screen" surface to the actual video memory with just one copy
18:54.43MaloeranIf I want to copy another software surface, not the software "screen" surface, I need two whole copy operations
18:55.11MaloeranIt's an arbitrary limitation, just to keep the API simple
18:56.58brlcadnot sure I follow what you mean by "another software surface, not the software "screen" surface"
18:57.28brlcadyou create an sdl_surface .. you write pixels to it
18:57.41brlcadsdl copies those to video memory
18:57.54MaloeranThat works for the software "screen" surface, yes
18:58.04brlcadright
18:58.22MaloeranIf you want to copy another surface to video memory, you first have to copy it to the software "screen" surface, *then* you have to copy the software "screen" surface to video memory
18:58.34MaloeranWhich is terribly wasteful
18:59.15brlcadyou have another screen surface
18:59.38MaloeranYou can only have one "screen" surface
18:59.49brlcadyou have another sdl_surface
19:00.29MaloeranYes, but you can not copy from it directly to video memory
19:00.35brlcadi'm just not following what you expect "should" be possible, other than it sounding like you wanting hardware surfaces
19:00.40MaloeranYou can only copy from it to the "screen" surface, which must in turn be copied to video memory
19:01.06brlcadright, but you CAN'T do that reliably without assuming hardware capabilities
19:01.10MaloeranI should be able to have 10 software "surfaces", and myself copy the data from any of them directly into video memory
19:01.34MaloeranThe only limitation is system memory, there's still only one hardware surface
19:01.55brlcadwhat you're talking about is writing to mapped video memory .. video memory mapped to system memory so you are effectively writing to video memory
19:02.40brlcadthere are some cards that will directly reference system memory for you, but even that is not prevalent
19:02.50MaloeranWriting to it, DMA'ing to it ; I should be able to copy from a surface directly to the real video hardware surface ( not SDL's "screen" )
19:03.14brlcadwith DMA .. that's exactly what I'm saying is a hardware characteristic
19:03.20brlcadnot something that can be taken for granted
19:03.25Maloeran... Okay, I think I need to clarify
19:03.51MaloeranSDL already copies from the *software* single and only screen surface directly, with one copy, no matter the underlying method used
19:04.26brlcadsure, you provide the pixels, and it stores them *somewhere*
19:04.28MaloeranIt should be possible to have other identical *software* surfaces which could be copied by SDL directly in the video memory, by the same mechanisms. They are all software surfaces, it doesn't even matter which one is being copied
19:05.18brlcadit's only "directly in the video memory" when you have video mapped memory, DMA or equivalence
19:05.33MaloeranI'm not ever accessing that memory directly, SDL is
19:05.42brlcadsure
19:05.58MaloeranSDL is copying from its "screen" software surface directly into the video memory, but it can't copy directly from any other surface
19:06.26MaloeranAnd that is most arbitrary, it's an API and design limitation ; it's easily done in X or DX
19:07.24brlcadahh, maybe you mean it copies from what system memory buffer to another system memory buffer before sending to the video card? .. i.e. tying a particular surface to the video mapped hardware?
19:08.27MaloeranYes, that's the only way to copy from one software surface to video memory, you have to go through the software "screen" surface with SDL first
19:08.56brlcadaah, okay.. that's not what you were initially saying
19:09.04brlcadat least not the way it was worded
19:09.17brlcadbut then we only have like three nouns to work with here.. heh
19:09.35MaloeranIt sure is what I'm trying to explain by 10 different ways since yesterday :)
19:09.55brlcadi can see that, though I recall there being a way to change swap "screen" surfaces
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19:10.04brlcadmaybe that's no longer possible
19:10.26brlcadthat's what I was referring to with the flip -- you actually flip to an entirely different screen
19:10.40cad65i can't access freenode from my irc client today - can anyone here help me out?
19:10.54brlcadthat may or may not be a double-buffered hardware surface, or might be a software one
19:10.54MaloeranThe built-in SDL flipping capabilities are limited to two surfaces
19:11.27cad65i'm using a web chat now
19:11.31cad65here's what i'm getting - http://www.scipisc.com/view_image.php?id=181
19:11.44brlcadright, that much I know.. but there at least used to be (or at least I remember there being many years ago) a way to point the second buffer to an arbitrary sdl_surface so when you do the flip, it becomes primary
19:12.09brlcadcad65: it's rather obvious you're using web chat ;)
19:12.18MaloeranVery neat, I guess it must have been dropped, most unfortuantely
19:12.35brlcadMaloeran: I bet you can still do it
19:12.36cad65brlcad: oh
19:12.37cad65lol
19:12.48brlcadbut probably not through the public SDL api
19:13.13brlcadyou'd probably have to set some struct values on your own
19:13.14brlcadbecause the basic operation should be doable
19:13.18cad65so how do I get help on my irc client connection issue? its only to freenode
19:13.19MaloeranI see, does SDL have a hidden API or must I hack the source to expose its static functions?
19:13.25MaloeranThis is messy
19:13.27brlcaddunno, maybe they do a lot more to manage the screen surface these days
19:13.56cad65i am connected just fine to the mozilla client
19:14.13MaloeranOh well, it's just annoying to seriously lose performance due to SDL when getting above 100fps
19:14.16brlcadMaloeran: not exactly hidden .. i mean you'd just have to read thier sources to see what they do during sdl_flip to determine what you'd need to update in the associated screen to get it to work
19:14.31brlcadcad65: can you ping irc.freenode.net?
19:14.54brlcadMaloeran: ahh.. you're complaining about 100+fps only?  bahhh. :)
19:14.59cad65let me check
19:15.19cad65brlcad: since I can connect to different servers, shouldn't I be able to connect to freenode as well?
19:15.30brlcadcad65: of course not, it's a different server :P
19:15.47cad65well, no problem with pinging
19:15.59cad65oh...okay (irc rookie here)
19:16.02MaloeranWell, brlcad, I lose a 10% at around 30fps... and I lose 50% due to SDL at 200fps!
19:16.14cad65so the ping was successful
19:16.21cad65are there any irc moderators in here?
19:16.33brlcadcad65: you mean network or channel?
19:16.43brlcadcad65: you do realize you're in a cad channel? :)
19:17.07brlcadcad65: you might want to try a different port
19:17.21cad65hrm
19:17.24cad65interesting
19:17.46cad65and a port could block one server to my irc client and not another one?
19:17.56brlcadsure, why not
19:18.25brlcadnot likely, but possible
19:18.58cad65darn...I can't switch rooms in this web interface
19:19.17brlcadyep, it's configured that way on purpose
19:19.36brlcadotherwise you could cause all sorts of trouble and we'd be liable for problems you cause
19:20.07brlcadthat web interface is intended for interactive discussion about BRL-CAD
19:20.29brlcadhow you got to it as a general means for freenode network support is beyond me
19:21.01cad65lol - I just found it
19:21.04cad65sorry to bother you
19:21.07brlcadfor starters, you could try a better irc client than chatzilla
19:21.28brlcadsomething that might give you better output status
19:25.31Maloeran:) Nice
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19:30.59dliwhich command to rescale?
19:42.39CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): Add vector class, with very initial support for simd operations.
19:43.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Include vector class for use by brep intersection routines
19:44.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add compilation of brep_test program
19:46.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: Add brep_test program for simple unit testing
19:46.32MaloeranI think I'll never understand why people make a class or a struct for a mere "vector" rather than an array, especially to use SIMD instructions
19:50.37Maloerani.e. If you have 4 packed vectors of x,y,z, you could often operate on the 12 floats with just 3 instructions, try to do nicely that with 4 structs or classes
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20:18.38brlcadMaloeran: primarily for type transparency and operator overloading
20:20.17brlcadso you're not actually tied to particular simd types, and don't need to resort to *_add() functions where a + b might provide cleaner code
20:21.01brlcadif you don't care about or don't leverage those two features, then yes -- they are completely unnecessary overhead
20:22.05clock_leverage that is a word used often in PR :)
20:22.25brlcadas are lots of other words, your point? :)
20:23.10brlcadi mean if you made a vector class and still had a ->add() method.. that would be a bit silly, and doesn't utilize the type transparency benefit
20:24.46MaloeranIndeed brlcad, it just really gets in the way of optimisation, especially for SIMD
20:25.07brlcadnot when it's done right
20:25.19brlcadit "should" expand out into exactly the same inline'd calls
20:25.28brlcadwhen it's implemented correctly
20:25.44brlcadno object/function calls, no evil vtable lookups, etc
20:26.27MaloeranSure sure... I'm just saying I may want to load a x,y,z vector and the x of the following vector into one __m128
20:26.33brlcadit the coder doesn't make a mistake and the compiler does it's just, you can end up with the same result, but simplified maintainable code
20:28.13brlcadwhat you suggest isn't orthogonal .. you could write a routine that was overloaded to do exactly that that expands to the same operations
20:28.32brlcadif you can write a macro/inline for it at least, there's a way
20:28.54brlcadjust with a class, you can avoid the macro/function syntax for entire classes of problems
20:29.34brlcadthat along with automatic initialization and deallocations if any are really the only reasons of value, imho
20:30.18brlcadand there are plenty of codes where that just doesn't matter, like if the library itself is going to act as an abstraction layer and hide the fact that it's doing sse under the hood
20:30.19MaloeranI recognize the general value, it just seems hardly compatible with low-level SIMD optimisation to my eyes
20:30.57brlcadit's not a matter of compatibility, it's just different syntax .. you end up with the same assembly for what I"m referring to
20:31.51brlcadfor the implementations where you don't, and there's some penalty (like vtables), I'd completely agree .. that's a bad idea, a very bad idea
20:32.08MaloeranOf course so, but perhaps we are not seeing the same kind of low-level SIMD optimisations...
20:32.28MaloeranI mean, I have mixed floats and pointers in the same __m128 ;)
20:33.01brlcadso long as you're taking about lines of code being written, then we are talking about the same optimizations
20:33.38brlcadall that changes it what functions you write for your data types
20:33.47brlcadit expands to the same operations
20:34.54brlcadand those operations can be whatever you want -- packing and unpacking floats and pointers, maintaining states or not, doing whatever
20:35.28MaloeranThen you end up doing a class API which is identical to the SIMD intrinsics
20:35.31brlcadits JUST a difference in syntax/wrapping, like if you wrote all of your simd operations using a macro
20:37.25MaloeranRight, I agree of course, I guess the only point is to map some common instructions to overloaded operators, and expose an interface similar to intrinsics for all the rest
20:37.27brlcadit could be identical or not, depends on how you write it -- in general there are common patterns
20:38.35brlcadright, that is really the only point -- though once you have that interface, you very likely can translate it to other SIMD implementations too with no change to the code that used those classes
20:40.06brlcadin practice, I don't find that latter to be as much of a benefit as others claim, but some have zealotry on the encapsulation benefit
20:40.29MaloeranEheh, I noticed
20:40.57MaloeranYou could write an interface to wrap the original SIMD intrinsics just as well, anyhow
20:41.57brlcadyep, you can do the same thing in C
20:42.21brlcadonly difference of wrapping in a class is operator overloading and automatic init
20:43.46brlcadthat was the main/only point from the start -- type transparency and operator overloading .. if you don't care about that or wouldn't use those features much, then it does diminish the benefits
20:44.26dlican I move a part (.r)? like linear motion, or rotation
20:45.16brlcadI just found it odd that you'd "never understand why people make a class" .. their reasoning (whether you like or agree with it) seems perfectly understandable
20:45.49brlcaddli: tra and rot commands
20:46.49brlcadsry, orot and/or rotobj
20:46.59Maloeranbrlcad, it does not seem reasonable to me when one needs all the low-level flexibility of SIMD intrinsics to get proper performance
20:47.20MaloeranSIMD intrinsics are a large interface, to makign a class with all these capabilities is a lot of code which serves little actual purpose
20:47.32Maloeran"so making" a class with
20:47.53MaloeranJust my personal view on the matter of course
20:47.53brlcadMaloeran: heh, you keep making the leap to the encapsulation in a class impacting performance and that's hogwash when done correctly
20:48.10MaloeranOf course so, but it's still a lot of code with very little purpose!
20:48.12brlcadit sounds like you just don't agree, and that's fine with me -- your idea
20:48.13dlibrlcad, " sed " says object is not solid
20:48.42brlcaddli: sed is to edit primitives, you have to go into object edit mode
20:48.54brlcadoed command or matrix edit via gui
20:48.54MaloeranI don't really like seeing 1000 lines of code just to be a full and exact wrapper around something which would have done the job as well. Anyhow...
20:49.40brlcadonly because it rarely is a full and exact wrapper
20:49.52brlcadbut that's also just to wrap one interface
20:49.56brlcadthrow in two more
20:50.12MaloeranAh yes, then it serves a purpose
20:50.46brlcadi've seen some people prefer it just for the syntactic sugar though
20:51.02brlcadbeing able to add two things using +-/ instead of some add(), etc
20:51.29brlcadregardless of needing a pack_pointer_with_float() or whatever other tricks
20:51.45brlcadit keeps the simple simple
20:51.56brlcaddli: have you seen the quick reference cheat sheet?
20:52.03brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf
20:52.22dlibrlcad, yes, and thr trifold one, very puzzling
20:52.24brlcadon the second page on the back in the first column are the commands related to editing
20:53.01brlcaddli: yeah, it's not meant to be instructional -- it's informative to the modelers that know most of the operations but can't remember the command name or args, etc
20:54.13brlcaddli: oed is likely the command that you want, and is rather tricky to understand at first with the left and right side business
20:55.36brlcadsay you have some region named region.r and in there is a combination comb.c with two primitives prim1.s and prim2.s .. to use oed to edit the matrix over comb.c, you'd use oed /region.r comb.c/prim1.s
20:56.19brlcadto rotate all instances of region.r, you'd use oed / region.r/comb.c/prim1.s
20:56.46dlibrlcad, I just want to rotate the whole region.r
20:56.47brlcadyou have to specify all the way down to a primitive so that it's explicit as to which coordinate axis you are editing about
20:57.49brlcadyou have to anchor the edit from a known point -- all primitives have a defined center and coordinate axis orientation
20:58.25dlibrlcad, let me play with it a little
20:59.06brlcadthe second example, oed / region.r/comb.c/prim1.s, sounds like what you want
20:59.31brlcadif you're just going to translate/rotate, then the primitive doesn't really matter, pick any path down through the region
20:59.50brlcader, it matters for rotations.. but not translations
21:04.16dlibrlcad, oed path must starts from the current showing region? this is hard for me, when the design is complex, and I want to move one part
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21:08.37dlibrlcad, I found the "Matrix Selector", easier now
21:12.06brlcadahh, glad to hear it
21:12.33brlcadfor what it's worth, oed has little to nothing to do with what is currently showing
21:13.12brlcade object.r, oed / object.r/and/path/to/primitive.s
21:13.52brlcadwhich is what matrix selection does, though first showing you which object's are displayed, then a list of the paths to primtives
21:14.26brlcadso that it can build the "oed / object/path/to/prim" for you
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21:33.12IriX64most beautifull thing, I've ever seen , took all night but it's gorgeous.
21:33.56IriX64798.70 seconds.
21:34.43IriX64kudos to the BRL-CAD team.
21:36.18IriX64``Erik, I'd really like to show you what my little machine did :)
21:41.05clock_brlcad: have you seen the Ronja model?
21:41.36clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_3.png
21:41.47clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_2.png
21:54.17brlcadclock_: ooh, that's nice!
21:55.12*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168054557.dsl.bell.ca)
21:55.56*** join/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222)
21:56.08lg_hi
21:57.17IriX64regards
21:57.42lg_back to brlworld...
21:57.54IriX64from?
21:58.22lg_;-) from offlineland
21:59.48lg_reboot? wow, brlcad is not pure unix software anymore...
22:00.10clock_brlcad: thanks
22:00.13IriX64define "pure unix"
22:00.15brlcadlg_: he reboots for his own benefit
22:00.22brlcadnothing to do with brl-cad :)
22:00.29clock_brlcad: of course I also have a video of rotating model
22:00.35IriX64quite right sorry should have mentioned that.
22:00.39clock_brlcad: but I think last time you were not able to play
22:01.17lg_;-)
22:01.51IriX64lg_ I have yet to finish my cup.
22:02.33lg_well, i just finished two beers, its a bit late here in turkey
22:02.51brlcadhehe
22:02.58IriX64heh
22:03.56IriX64nei eha boh?
22:04.00lg_but only modeling a cup is mentioned in the manuals, so i was on my own
22:04.33brlcadclock_: is there a really good installation picture that showcases ronja and matches the model closely?
22:04.42IriX64ha how to model a beer, lets see you start wiith hops or wheat ;)
22:06.41lg_guess it is a union of both... and as there are material properties to take care of, type will be region... r beer.r u hops + wheat
22:06.42IriX64haha right.
22:06.44*** join/#brlcad rdenatale (n=rick@166-82-49-174.quickclick.ctc.net)
22:09.34rdenatalehello all, does this channel welcome modeling questions from newbies?
22:10.03lg_ok, all newbies say helloooo... ;-)
22:10.51rdenataleI'm just starting to use brl-cad and I've got a bit of a conceptual block as to using transformations with nested combinations
22:15.20clock_brlcad: no
22:20.48rdenataleLet's say that I'm modeling an instrument panel.  I've got a combination for the basic panel itself which combines primitives to make the right shape...
22:21.22rdenatale... Then I've got a subassembly consisting of a raised subpanel with a few identical switches. ...
22:23.11rdenatale... the subassembly in this case is another combination with a primitive shape for the subpanel, and references to a combo for the switch which combines primitives and combos making up...
22:23.28rdenatale... the switch handle, a nut, and a washer....
22:24.07rdenatale... Now I think that I want to build each of these subpart combos and primitives at their own origins, and then...
22:24.53rdenatale... combine them at the higher level with a transformation matrix to position each subpart within the larger part...
22:25.41rdenatale... but I'm not sure what's the best way to do this with mged, since it only seems to provide first-class support for positining primitive parts and not combos...
22:25.47rdenatale... Am I missing something?
22:34.58IriX64erf... again, think back when I first came here ;)
22:35.36brlcadheh "no" .. funny clock
22:35.56brlcadrdenatale: yes, questions always welcome.. response depends on audience and time of day ;)
22:36.52rdenatalethanks brlcad.  
22:37.25brlcadrdenatale: you can do what you suggest, applying arbitrary transformation matrices anywhere in the hierarchy
22:37.50IriX64btw brlcad: if I hit clear and display in the geometry editor, doesn't clear the frame buffer.
22:38.39brlcadto do this via the gui, you usually will display the geometry, then select Matrix Edit on the Edit menu .. select the assembly/combination/non-primitive object that you wish to apply a matrix over, then a path to a reference coordinate system
22:38.51brlcadIriX64: that's intentional
22:38.56IriX64ty
22:39.02brlcadframebuffer has it's own concept of clearing
22:39.26IriX64true, raytrace control panel allows for it so no biggie.
22:39.26brlcadthough it wouldn't be an unreasonable feature request to combine them in the geometry editor
22:39.38IriX64your choice.
22:39.47brlcadactually it's yours ;)
22:39.53IriX64:)
22:40.49brlcadif it's something you'd like to see added, or for any feature request really .. it helps to make the request at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640805
22:40.57brlcadelse it get forgotten between releases
22:41.17IriX64ty i'll visit and add to favorites.
22:41.31rdenatalebrlcad: I don't see Matrix Edit on the edit menu (I'm using 7.8.3).  I only see matrix selection and that only lets me select primitives.
22:41.32brlcadrdenatale: the command line way to do what you suggest is the oed command, which has tricky semantics to get used to at first, but will eventually make sense ;)
22:43.05brlcadrdenatale: sorry .. my impreciseness
22:43.08rdenatalebrlcad: yeah I saw oedit, but I can't figure out what path_lhs and path_rhs are
22:43.37brlcadit is Matrix Selection -- the first primitive selection dialog is your anchor coordinate axis (which mostly only matters for rotations)
22:43.59brlcadselect any one of those that include your combination/region
22:44.27brlcadyou'll then get another dialog where you can select where to place the matrix along that path
22:45.32brlcadrdenatale: say you have a 'panel' assembly that has a 'button.r' and 'switch.r', each containing a 'cyl.s' primitive
22:45.55brlcadsay you want to translate the switch.r ..
22:46.42brlcadyou'd "e panel" or "e switch.r" or use the geometry browser and select one of those two .. say for simplicity you "e panel"
22:48.03rdenatalebrlcad: do I need these to be regions?  The problem is that my end product is going to be an stl file (for stereolithograpy) ...
22:48.08brlcadto apply the transformation via the gui, you select the matrix selection menu option, then select any one of the lines that has switch.r in it .. the primitive only matters as a coordinate axis reference point .. so say you select /panel/switch.r/cyl.c
22:48.32rdenatale... and as I understand the conversion to stl, it makes each region into a separate part.
22:49.03brlcadrdenatale: ideally, yes -- at some point in the modeling process, regions/parts should be created, and groups/assemblies should be built up from those regions
22:49.16brlcadif you define no regions, there will be one created for you
22:50.06brlcadwhich for something like the converter, would mean the whole object just ends up as one object .. and stl files can only have one object per file anyways ;)
22:51.26brlcadto complete the example, after selecting /panel/switch.r/cyl.c .. you'd then select switch.r to apply a transformation to the switch.r being used in panel
22:51.44brlcadthat corresponds to the oed command of: oed /panel switch.r/cyl.c
22:52.26brlcadif you wanted to just translate some object .. you'd do something like "e switch.r" and "oed / switch.r/cyl.s
22:53.01rdenatalebrlcad: so does path_rhs have to start with either a region or a primitive part? ...
22:53.45brlcadit starts with the name of the thing you want to translate .. some combination/region/assembly/part/group object
22:54.07brlcadbut it must include the path all the way down to some primitive so it has a coordinate axis to work with
22:54.32rdenataleI've got a tree like panel.c/switch.c/...  and if I enter oed panel.c switch.c it says something like "Error: unable to find matching solid part"
22:54.47brlcadthat is understandably confusing.. long been a consideration to make more transparent, but there are legacy support issues for the expert modelers
22:55.34brlcadright, that's an error.. it will be something like oed /panel.c switch.c/some/path/to/a/primitive
22:56.27rdenatalebrlcad: okay, do I understand this right if I do oed panel.c switch.c/someprimitive_in_switch.c it will still work on the matrix which transforms switch.c relative to panel.c ???
22:57.57brlcadif I understand you right myself, yes ;)
22:58.06brlcadthat will only transform the switch.c being used in panel.c
22:58.54brlcadif you wanted to move all switch.c's, you'd oed / switch.c/someprimitive_in_switch.s (.c suffix is for csg combinations, .s is for solids aka primitives)
22:59.19brlcadthe slash on the LHS is of course significant
22:59.43rdenatalebrlcad: indicating the root I guess
22:59.50dlibrlcad, can I just move one .c instead of all parts?
23:01.04brlcaddli: yes, you can do that by either creating a named reference to the .c (which amounts to creating a group that includes just that .c along with a matrix transform) or you apply the matrix directly in the assembly where it's being used
23:01.56dlibrlcad, thanks
23:02.50rdenatalebrlcad: so I think I understand but I'm still having trouble.  I have to go fairly deep into that switch to get to a primitive...
23:05.19rdenataleThe shallowest primitive is in switch.c/switch_nut_and_washer.c/washer.s ...
23:08.57rdenatalebrlcad: thanks, I think you got me started. As I said I've got another problem now, but my wife is pressing me to prepare dinner, so I'll likely come back later.
23:08.59brlcadrdenatale: sort of, yes indicating a root .. if you think of all paths sort of like filesystem paths where to modify a *directory* in your root (e.g. etc), you have to specify a file contained therein (e.g. /etc/passwd) .. and to
23:09.21brlcadif your paths are long, it might be easier to use the gui for selection
23:09.27brlcadgood luck with dinner :)
23:10.39brlcaddli: oh, third option is to copy that .c since all copies are shallow when using cp
23:11.59dlibrlcad, thanks
23:13.31MaloeranHum, dinner. That reminds me I haven't eaten a thing today yet
23:14.08brlcad(looking for capable developers)
23:14.10dlibrlcad, no :( I am just a n00b user
23:14.23brlcadhey, nothing wrong with that ;)
23:14.34dlibrlcad, I use qcad for 2d, and brlcad for 3d
23:14.44brlcadsweet
23:15.30brlcadfeel free to shovel in the feedback or make requests on the sf.net trackers .. they do get paid attention to
23:19.42*** part/#brlcad lg_ (n=lg_@88.234.13.222)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070228

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070228

00:01.13*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735664.dsl.bell.ca)
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10:54.31Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/demo00-xvid.avi http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi  ~  Such a crappy encoding quality, I really need to find some middle ground between these 16mb files and the 2.4gb raw loseless output
10:54.49MaloeranTips, anyone? :)
11:11.41clock_What is rayforce?
12:05.19brlcadMaloeran: yeah, I like the video .. the scene and traversal around/through the ship, but the quality is absolute crap
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13:17.24clock_brlcad: what is Rayforce?
13:50.06brlcadclock_: it's a new high-performance triangle ray-tracer being developed by Maloeran
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15:48.11Maloeranbrlcad, do you know how to encode videos in a higher quality?
15:49.02MaloeranI'm using, pass 1 & 2 : mencoder video00.raw -demuxer rawvideo -rawvideo fps=20:w=1024:h=768:format=rgb24:size=2359296 -ovc xvid -xvidencopts bitrate=2600000:pass=1:vhq=4:bvhq=1:min_iquant=1:min_pquant=1:min_bquant=1:max_bframes=1 -nosound -noskip -mc 0 -vf harddup -o video00-xvid.avi
15:49.19MaloeranWhat codec or settings can I possibly use to get some decent quality?
15:56.16archivistdivx is supposed to be ok (also an open source version somewhere)
15:57.49Elperionalso try to use ffmpeg
15:57.55Elperionits codecs are really nice
16:00.06MaloeranI tried xvid, divx, msmpeg4-v2...
16:01.44archivistmost video formats are not assuming nice cad pictures though
16:03.04burtonMaloeran: do you need to encode colour pictures or only b/w?
16:03.25MaloeranAnything at this point, any way to get some decent quality
16:03.34MaloeranAlthough color would really be prefered
16:03.36burtonFor me DivX works the best
16:03.53burtonMaloeran: you can download my videos at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
16:04.19burtonMaloeran: for encoding color I use the Luminaplex algorithm 8-)
16:05.36MaloeranOkay, I want that kind of quality! :) What do you use for divx encoding?
16:05.55archivistheh why are you using burton (I live near Burton on trent)
16:06.24burtontranscode -x yuv4mpeg -y xvid -i $*.mpeg4_asp.y4m -p 3d/loop_7.2.wav -o $@
16:07.12burtonAnd here is the Luminaplex encoder http://ronja.twibright.com/hyperluma.php
16:07.16MaloeranHum, my input is raw pixel data though, do you have a similar solution for mencoder?
16:07.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: Wrap vector in extern c++, fix multiply-defined symbol errors on vequals function
16:08.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Do not include vector.h in brep.h, since it generates multiply defined symbols across libraries (i.e. librt/libwdb)
16:08.55burtonMaloeran: no but why do you need mencoder?
16:09.07burtonMaloeran: if you don't require mencoder then download the encoding pipeline from Ronja
16:09.40burtonwhat is actually mencoder, at all?
16:11.16CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: remove optimization flags. probably need to move the sse flags somewhere else too.
16:11.21MaloeranIt's the encoder for mplayer, the Linux media player
16:11.32MaloeranWhatever software I use, I must be able to feed it raw pixels
16:11.39burtonMaloeran: I am using raw pixels
16:11.44MaloeranGreat, okay
16:11.50burtonThe pipeline takes *.g on one side and outputs divx avi on the other
16:12.04burtonraw RGB data falling from rt
16:12.29burtonMaloeran: http://ronja.twibright.com/makefiles/Makefile.3d
16:12.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (brep_test.cpp g_brep.cpp): explicitly include vector at compilation unit.
16:13.18burtonMaloeran: http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/render_animation
16:14.46MaloeranThanks burton, I'll try this transcode
16:15.02burtonMaloeran: you're welcome
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16:41.17CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: temporarily define replacements for missing(?) builtins
16:47.59MaloeranRight, this works so much better. Files of 120mb instead of 16mb too
16:55.51Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi if anyone is interested
16:58.12*** join/#brlcad archivist_win (n=djc@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
17:11.17CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h): fix inlining of << operator. should alleviate the problems with multiply-defined symbols seen earlier.
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17:21.54archivistneato
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18:36.06CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/strlcpy.c: include unistd.h for size_t definition (fixes linux/amd64 build)
18:46.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: switch to SSE intrinsics (more portable than builtins)
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19:04.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): begin fleshing out arbitrary length vector class. class definition and stub functions.
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21:55.02``ErikMaloeran: I'm in your computarz, hax0ring your c0dez
22:12.29louipc133t
22:13.13louipcoh I did it wrong: 1337
22:14.24brlcads\/\/337
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23:19.11IriX64why does opengl functionality report yes on 7.6.2 but not 7.8.4?
23:20.14IriX64same configure line.
23:23.48brlcaddifferent detections, the configure tests change on every version
23:24.04brlcaddefault to on-by-default and off-by-default to for some options
23:24.25IriX64erf so if i can find it in configure, should be able to fix it?
23:25.06brlcadwhy on earth are you using 7.6.2?
23:25.20IriX64to see aboutr this opengl thing.
23:25.38brlcadthen ignore the configure option, it's not going to show you anything :)
23:25.46IriX64heh ty.
23:26.02brlcadthat just enables/disables the opengl framebuffer, which from your perspective is no different from what you're already using
23:26.12brlcadit doesn't provide any new features/behavior
23:26.12IriX64ill set it in config.h. :)
23:26.27brlcadgo for it, just don't complain about things not compiling
23:26.35IriX64heh sure.
23:26.38brlcadyou'd have to do more than that to fully enable it
23:26.52IriX64ill look around.
23:27.05brlcadseriously, though -- it's just whether it uses opengl to draw a pixel or X11 routines to draw a pixel.. it still just draws a pixel
23:27.15brlcadit's not going to give you a shaded display
23:27.35IriX64but it is available you should be able to use it.
23:28.40brlcadit is a configuration option is all -- there's also an option to enable the pro-engineer plugin, but that don't mean you can use it
23:29.09brlcadif you really want to know why it's disabled, look in config.log and see why the opengl tests failed
23:29.10IriX64ty that explains it.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070301

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070301

00:22.18MaloeranPlease cvs commit when done hax0ring the c0dez, Erik :)
00:43.52deltazapalright, i think it's about time that i came out of idling and introduced myself you you all :P
00:45.11brlcadhowdy deltazap
00:45.23brlcadfeel free to lurk as long as you like ;)
00:45.26deltazaphah
00:45.54brlcadkudos on the name ;)
00:46.06brlcadeven if you do spell it wrong :D
00:46.13deltazapmy normal name was taken
00:46.57deltazap:O
00:47.05deltazapit's phonetically correct :P
00:47.12*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
00:47.13brlcadheh
00:47.49deltazapi'm an MechE at the University of South Florida
00:48.06brlcadahh, fun
00:48.13brlcadparty school, eh? :)
00:48.25deltazapi started working with a robotics group about 2 weeks ago and, surprise!, they don't have anything for cad software
00:48.34deltazapmore like farm school :P
00:48.44brlcadahh
00:48.54deltazapyou must have us confused with FSU or UF
00:48.57brlcadi just associate all things florida with a party
00:49.02deltazaphaha
00:49.42brlcadprobably because i'm usually in miami or panama city or eglin .. good stuff
00:50.14deltazapi'm originally from the melbourne area, just south of Cape Canaveral
00:50.51deltazapthe panhandle isn't as nice as central florida from what i hear
00:51.30brlcadyeah, it's not
00:52.15deltazapso, i was on a quest for (useable) cad software for the mac when i came across brl cad
00:52.51brlcadwell you should be forewarned that depending on your (pre)conceptions of CAD, this may or may not be what you're looking for
00:53.32deltazapyeah, i've inched into it a bit, backed off, looked at it a bit more
00:53.40brlcadwe're by far the best/only open source solid modeling CAD software in production use, decades of development invested, but we don't do it all by a long shot
00:54.14brlcadwe're specifically short on capable developers if you know of any ;)
00:54.15deltazapit's interesting how brl cad approaches the problem
00:54.56brlcadI presume you've read the Overview and the Industry Diagram, perhaps the Intro to MGED as well?
00:55.14deltazapheh, don't get to stick my head outside of our engineering labs long enough to talk to many people
00:55.17deltazapyeah, i have
00:57.22brlcadthe industry diagram in particular should give a sense for how we currently fit into the big picture -- e.g. AutoCAD is CADD software and our overlap with them is rather limited, similarly BRL-CAD has limited CAM facilities other than basic modeling, representation, and conversion support
00:58.34brlcadbut if solid modeling is your need, performing analyses, computing metrics like weight and volumes, or programmatic purposes, geometry engine representations, data manipulations, CSG implicity geometry .. then you're golden ;)
00:59.03brlcadwhat are you looking to do?
01:01.11deltazapright now, just modeling so that i can show people my designs
01:01.47deltazapsomething just to record designs since the lab has nothing at all
01:01.56brlcadgot it
01:02.08brlcadfor that, the mged tutorials are going to be essential
01:02.45brlcadmged has a lot of good aspects like a powerful command line, but user-friendly it is not, nor is it a discoverable interface
01:03.35brlcada known limitation that is being worked on, but a limitation regardless that requires lots of experience and expert knowledge to utilize effectively
01:04.28brlcadonce you do master it, our best modelers can generally be just as proficient at most tasks as they are in other CAD systems, even faster at doing some things, but it takes a while to get to that point
01:05.59brlcadbut once you do, things like http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png do become possible
01:07.07deltazapholy smokes!
01:13.01deltazapi'm used to command line interfaces
01:13.33deltazapunlike most mech e's, i have quite a bit of computer experience :P
01:14.58MaloeranVery nice brlcad, how come I don't have access to these models ;)
01:15.13brlcadMaloeran: :)
01:15.40brlcadMaloeran: you have access to some of those, and some considerably better
01:16.53MaloeranI do? The only real engineering model I have around is truck_bots, though I didn't look very far
01:17.06brlcadyou just don't know who to ask, or what exactly to ask for ..
01:17.24brlcadnone of the best models are public releasable
01:17.44brlcadeven that model isn't, but a picture of it is ;)
01:19.33``Erikmal: I commited as I was doing it. that's the way to do it
01:20.39``Erik*look* oh yeah, the model brlcad pasted ain't public release, that the image is public release has caused issues recently
01:21.23``Erikmal: I fixed the log2 check issue and made the rays per second a little more readable...
01:21.24MaloeranYes, one could perhaps guess where the fuel tanks are, and the ammo
01:21.45MaloeranI didn't receive email notification about these changes, strange
01:22.05``Erikheh, one could look at public release photographs of the vehicle and figure that out... but some people are stupid
01:22.57``ErikI got loads of python errors when I commited
01:23.07``Erikwhich I assume is the mail agent
01:23.15Maloerancool.
01:23.53``Erikand I ran around showing the current rfdemo to anyone who might give half a flying fuck heheheh :D
01:23.59``Erikthat thing is just smokin', dude
01:24.18MaloeranThanks :)
01:24.41``Erikon the quad opteron running fbsd, a steady 30fps at 1024x768
01:25.02``Erikon the octo-opteron running linux, it bounced between 25 and 40 fps erratically, mostly staying around 35fps
01:25.27MaloeranWith or without transparency?
01:25.48MaloeranI never remember what I leave as default for rfdemo when I commit, toggling a lot
01:25.51``Erikwithout
01:26.04``Erik10fps on the 12 core itanium running linux
01:26.05MaloeranAh. It's 80fps in 1024x78 on my 8 cores
01:26.11``Erik5fps on a dual core g5 running osX.4
01:26.31brlcad``Erik: fortunately, even that particular image is getting published in a book, and was recently re-approved for release via my jmum presentation
01:26.31MaloeranAh well, no SSE there
01:26.34``Erik<-- probably experiencing network issues, was running it remote X over 100baseT
01:27.10brlcadalong with a slew of other nifty pictures...
01:27.10MaloeranIs Lee pleased enough, overall?
01:27.17``Erikheh, brlcad, sab bc refused to sign off on a pub with that pic... once the pic was removed, she signed...
01:27.34brlcadMaloeran: he was yelling your name along with various profanities.. dunno...
01:27.58``Erikhehehe
01:28.33``Erikwhen I stopped by his office at 5pm and told him to log into that machine and run it, once he got over the foibles of remote X and his fucked up workstation, he was extremely happy, it made his day
01:29.29``Erikof course, his day wasn't exactly a shining beacon of awesomeness, I mean, chock full of meetings involving nontechnical people maching technical decisions that impact him, heh
01:29.41``Erikwhich is par for the course these days :/
01:30.20Maloeran:/ It still makes my day as well to hear that some people far away appreciate the software
01:30.34``Eriktell ya what
01:30.46``Erikit impressed me enough to run around and show lee and brlcad...
01:30.46Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/demo01-ms.avi  -  Transparency walkthrough of the terribly heavy galleon model, 60mb, if anyone is interested
01:30.48``Erik:)
01:30.53Maloeran:D
01:31.08``Erikand brlcad was getting 40fps from the quad opteron, opposed to my 30
01:31.13``Erikbetter networking, I guess :/
01:31.28MaloeranOr  http://www.rayforce.net/demo00-ms.avi  for flat shading demo, if you want to have a look
01:32.28deltazapwell, thanks guys :)
01:32.38deltazapi'm sure i'll have many more questions in the future
01:33.03brlcadMaloeran: can't you encode an mpeg2 or mpeg4 somewhere? :)
01:33.25brlcadand dear ghod.. that's a damn big video file :)
01:33.58``Erikthose're mpeg-4, brlcad
01:34.06``Erikhe just named 'em... "funny"
01:34.22``Erik(avi is the uncompressed layout, mpeg4 is the compression algo... vid compression is weird like that)
01:34.36``Erikbe like if he named an mp3 blah.pcm
01:34.41MaloeranYes, it's all msmpeg4-v2 so it even runs on windows out of the box
01:35.07MaloeranSorry about the huge files, any loss of quality is really visible, so this is almost loseless
01:35.25Maloeran( I have loseless versions too if you prefer :) )
01:35.32``Erik2.4 gigs a pop? D:
01:35.33``Erik:D
01:37.07MaloeranEheh, I still have that, but also x264 loseless compressed videos ; but I don't know how that runs on most players
01:37.24deltazapso, are most pepole in here developers for brl cad?
01:37.25``Erik<-- uses vlc, it does everything
01:37.32``Erikonly a couple of us, delta
01:38.02deltazap``Erik: and everyone else is an enthusiast? ;)
01:38.20louipchobbist
01:39.14``Erikbrlcad and myself are brl-cad developers, maloeran is developing a piece that will be integrated into BRL-CAD in about a month
01:39.17``Erik*look* others are former devs, enthusiests, interested parties, etc
01:39.23``Erikand bots, can't forget the bots :)
01:39.36deltazapof course not :)
01:39.50louipcoh so that's who's publishing this channel eh
01:39.51deltazapthey're a staple of any irc room
01:40.01``Erikchannel, not room
01:40.04``Erikquit talking like an aoler
01:40.05``Erik:D
01:40.08deltazaphah
01:40.13louipcomg lol
01:40.24deltazaphai2u
01:40.29``ErikA/S/L!!!!~??!
01:40.40Maloeranlololol!!1
01:41.15deltazapbrlcad mentioned being able to do analysis with models that you build with brl cad, what sort of analysis is (publically) available?
01:41.15``Erik(heh, hai2u as in goatse/lemonparty/tubgirl grade shock image site?)
01:41.57deltazap``Erik: not as much, just aoler mentality
01:42.02``Erikvolume/weight analysis, exposed area, ...
01:42.25``Erika disturbing amount is "publically available", but saying the extent is not :/
01:42.41deltazapheh
01:42.43louipcballistics
01:42.46louipcnon?
01:42.59brlcad``Erik: er, I meant an mpeg4 not using the divx encoding
01:43.02``Erik<-- been kinda interested in doing things like optic analysis and mechanical stress/strain analysis as public type activities
01:43.23deltazapmechanical stress/strain analysis would be awesome
01:43.45louipcthat would be neat
01:43.45deltazapthat would be the one that i'm most interested in since that's related to my field
01:43.48``ErikBRL-CAD's primary funding comes from ballistic type analysis, yes, but that actual work is done in another program... brlcad just provides the geometry information
01:44.04louipcdeltazap: you're doing robots? that's awesome
01:44.05deltazaphad to work with ansys today for one of my classes
01:44.08louipcah ok
01:44.16deltazapwhat a pain
01:44.24brlcaddeltazap: the other devs drop in from time to time, or live on the mailing lists
01:44.31deltazapinteresting
01:44.32brlcador just commit and cause problems when they can ;)
01:44.37``Erikheh
01:44.38louipchah
01:44.43deltazaplouipc: yes :) unmanned systems
01:44.45``Erikyou mean bob? :D *duck*
01:44.48deltazaphaha
01:45.00brlcadi think bob tried to join the channel twice
01:45.10brlcadnever got it to work
01:45.27``ErikI mean the causing problems part... ain't his fault, though, he was working the windows port and not focused on portability
01:45.28deltazapour group is actually sponsored by ARL for some of our projects
01:45.31MaloeranBob from Survice?
01:45.38louipcdeltazap: well as I see it, that's what a robot is. It bugs me when they call those RC doodads robots like on Robot Wars
01:45.40brlcadis there any other bob? :)
01:45.42``Erikmal: ja, the dude we had lunch with at the golf course
01:45.50brlcadbob's pretty cool guy, *real* easy going
01:46.03deltazaplouipc: http://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm is our group's site
01:46.09``Erikhe used to be arl civvy, same office as john
01:46.25brlcadvery much a least-resistance path coder though, whatever gets the job done fastest no matter how maintainable, clean, fastest running it is
01:46.29MaloeranI'm surprised Bob couldn't manage to come on IRC
01:46.47brlcadhe just didn't try really hard.. and might have had firewall issues
01:46.48MaloeranYes, I saw some of his Fastgen code, it isn't that bad
01:47.20brlcadMaloeran: heh, he wrote most of the gui code in mged .. still think that? :)
01:47.30MaloeranOuch! :)
01:47.32brlcadthat said, he also wrote archer which is worlds cleaner/improved ;)
01:47.53brlcadhe was using tcl before it was really stabilized
01:48.17brlcadplus he's colorblind (so lets make him a gui coder! woot)
01:48.17MaloeranI think I just have a high esteem for Bob as Mark told me he also first submitted progress reports and invoices as a .txt file, as I initially did
01:48.43brlcadhe's a very simple down to earth guy
01:49.05brlcadreally easy going, makes awesome guitars
01:49.06``Erikbob's colorblind, too?
01:49.16louipcdeltazap: nice, I'd really like to do stuff like that
01:49.18brlcadyeah, ironic, no?
01:49.37louipcsolid body guitars?
01:49.41``Erikakoostics
01:49.48deltazaplouipc: this job was just kinda dropped into my lap
01:49.52brlcadi almost bought one off him before he left, but then I was burning cash on other toys at the time
01:49.52*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
01:50.33*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
01:50.36louipcneato
01:50.39deltazaplouipc: problem is that is a bunch of CS PhD students and noone wanted to work with the hardware when it broke.  makes it hard to show off their systems :P
01:50.46brlcadyou so wouldn't think he makes classic guitars, with his military background, potty mouth, and laid back coder attitude
01:50.59MaloeranHe's apparently much into fishing too
01:51.02deltazap*its
01:51.09louipcdeltazap: yeah definitely. software isn't everything :/
01:51.29brlcadit isn't??
01:51.35deltazaphah
01:51.42brlcadMaloeran: and guns
01:51.51brlcadshooting with him is fun, if you get the chance
01:51.56deltazapthat and they don't have anyone to design and build custom hardware
01:51.57brlcadpretty experienced
01:52.07brlcadassuming you're not gunphobic or something
01:52.12MaloeranI think I'll pass that :), not my kind of activity
01:52.35MaloeranI think I'm not very fond of these particular... tools, never saw a gun though
01:52.51Maloeran( They are fairly rare in Canada )
01:52.54brlcadif you hung around him long enough, you probably would be enticed.. it's hard not to be ;)
01:52.56louipcyea
01:53.34brlcadnot hunting, target practice shooting clay pigeons .. though bob hunts too iirc
01:53.51louipcI went to a flea market in georgia and I was pretty freaked out by all the weapons
01:54.07MaloeranI'll settle for bicycle rides with Lee instead ;)
01:54.20brlcadMaloeran: i'm not sure it's a "rare in Canada" as it is a "rare in and around cities"
01:54.44brlcadit's not like I could easily go shooting down in baltimore (at least outdoors), without getting shot at
01:54.50``Erikheh, reading on laws and stuff, it's actually easier to buy a gun in canada than in the US
01:55.11``Erikless wait period, less background check... but they're all hunting grade weapons, not "self defense" weapons
01:55.18louipcshould be even easier soon too
01:56.11brlcadyeah, i'm referring more to the shotgun and rifle sort, not a handgun or uzi .. though those can be fun too I hear :)
01:56.35``Erikof course, the biggest news item gun crimes in the us are with hunting rifles... the wv sniper, etc
01:57.42brlcaddeltazap: hmm.. I notice that ARL is one of your groups funding sponsors..
01:57.52deltazapyes :)
01:58.06brlcadthat's probably a great lead towards securing a job ;)
01:58.25brlcaddo you know what part of ARL?
01:58.50brlcadthat sounds like the sort of stuff Twingy is working on now
01:59.10deltazaphang on, i have a card from one of the guys that came a week ago to look at everything
01:59.35deltazapweapons technology analysis branch
02:00.58deltazapwhen he came, i basically got a job offer.  i've only been with the group for three weeks :P
02:02.38brlcadyeah, there are positions open all over the lab, a hard need for bodies and talent
02:03.17MaloeranThey aren't too fond of canadians apparently, though
02:04.33louipc:P
02:04.33brlcadhmm.. that branch is probably part of WTD
02:04.34``Erikdoes it have an office symbol?
02:04.34brlcadpearson and company
02:04.34``Eriklike AMSRD-ARL-WM-WB ?
02:04.42deltazap``Erik: amsrd-arl-wm-bf
02:04.47brlcadeep
02:04.50``Erikhah, it IS wm, bitch!
02:04.53brlcadheh
02:05.17``Erik<-- in AMSRD-ARL-SL-BS
02:05.24``Erikyes, you read that right. BS.
02:05.26``Erik:(
02:05.37brlcadbetter that BF
02:05.43``Erikbest friends?
02:05.43``Erik:D
02:05.45brlcads/that/than/
02:05.51deltazaplol
02:05.58``Erikthat's what you meant, right, you pillowbiter?
02:06.03``ErikO:-)
02:06.08brlcaduh huh
02:06.30louipc!
02:06.51brlcadoh yeah.. and libapr somehow got updated again
02:07.07brlcadbut I was able to trace down the crashes to mod_security and mod_rewrite
02:07.09``Erikthis is the part of the day where you eat some food, have a nice relaxing adult beverage and prepare to watch southpark, buddy
02:07.14brlcadso I'm upgrading everything now
02:07.24``Erikonyour machine in belize?
02:07.28brlcadyeah
02:08.16``Erikunfortunate that we don't have friendly boots on the ground in that region.
02:08.24deltazapi'm not sure what most of the acronyms mean :P
02:08.27louipchah I've never heard the term 'adult beverage' before
02:08.43brlcadmy schedule is almost exactly 6 hours off right now, 9pm feels like 3pm, which means break time .. and a second burst of energy in about two hours until about 5am
02:09.29MaloeranSounds great brlcad, I thought one had to be a consultant working remotely to do that
02:09.31``Erikgot insane amounts of stuff done in that period of my life, too
02:09.33brlcadi've tried syncing back 6 hours three times now, but can't hold it for more than a day
02:09.56brlcadMaloeran: seniority ;)
02:10.28``Erikheh, d'no if it's seniority as much as contractor insulation combined with a perception of being irreplacable :)
02:10.47brlcadbut it's good stuff (most of the time), great toys, great code and potential for ideas if you know how to work it
02:11.00MaloeranEheh. From what I see, brlcad is indeed irreplacable, no one knows the software nearly as well
02:11.28``ErikI d'no, there may be a couple that do, but they're married to other projects O.o
02:11.31``Erik:D
02:11.39``Erik(don't inflate the boys ego, mal)
02:11.41``Erik:>
02:11.43brlcadnah, not even lee at this point
02:11.53brlcadand he has years on everyone
02:11.59``Erikum, lee wasn't on my list
02:12.02``Erikjra is, though
02:12.03``Erik:)
02:12.05brlcadinteresting
02:12.12brlcadjra is close
02:12.25brlcadfrom the whole project perspective though, he has lots of gaps
02:12.38brlcadhe knows more detail in the areas he worked on though, that's for sure
02:12.46``Eriklee is typically grossly outdated in his knowledge base :/
02:12.56``Erikhe's been doing the pointy hair routine too long
02:13.06brlcaddepends where in the code and the topic
02:14.52``Erik<-- ammended the tactical plan's verse on documentation to hopefully help in that regard
02:14.53``Erik*shrug*
02:14.58brlcadjra is up there followed by lee then maybe bob then maybe you or chris
02:15.17``Erikthe two in my head were john and bob
02:15.34brlcadlee knows more than you give him credit for, there's a lot of scope
02:15.36``Erikchris... our one competent friend in the "primary" customer software maintenance team?
02:15.40brlcadjust lacking detail
02:15.45``Eriklee has good breadth
02:16.01brlcadthat's what i'm primarily referring to -- breadth of knowledge
02:16.04``Erikbut when you get into details on BRL-CAD, he vocalizes the state as of '98 or so
02:16.21``Erikwhich is current on some parts
02:16.24``Eriknot on others...
02:16.53brlcadand no -- chris johnson
02:17.07brlcadyou haven't met i believe
02:17.12``Erikhm, sounds familiar, but I cannot place
02:17.14brlcadaside from in here
02:17.14``Erikhe, uh
02:17.21``ErikI've talked to him here, yes, cjohnson
02:17.38``Erika couple times... enough for me to go "ah ha, NOT a newbie linux weenie"
02:17.54brlcadpjt actually has a fair bit of breadth too, but undoubtedly all forgotten or entirely obsolete at this point
02:18.21``ErikI suspect any technical fu pjt had 3 years ago has gone the way of the crapper
02:18.35``Erikhe keeps a bookcase of cs books as an opaque shrine. :(
02:19.08MaloeranAhaha
02:19.11``Eriklast time I was in his new office, he seemed genuinely upset about that fact
02:19.21``Erikbut open about it
02:19.24``Erik*shrug*
02:21.30brlcadlee curiously knows very little about the build system.. was similar in the cake days too
02:21.53``Erik*shrug* I wouldn't expect him to, it changed in the last 5 years
02:21.55MaloeranI wouldn't blame it for that, I'm terribly uninspired to learn this stuff too
02:22.02``Erikheh
02:22.05Maloeranblame him*
02:22.07``Erikdid you check out rtcmp, mal?
02:22.22MaloeranAh no, I didn't
02:22.24deltazaphow hard is it to set up the rendering system for multiple machines?
02:22.40``Erikthe automake usage there is much different than BRL-CAD
02:23.07``Erikgiven how you lay out the directories and locations of the files, you might like how I did rtcmp a lot more than how rayfarce currently is
02:23.28brlcadhow was that? non-recursive?
02:23.40``Erik<PROTECTED>
02:23.43``Erikyeah, toplevel build
02:23.53``Erikreduced presense
02:24.19``Erikminimalistic, even :) while retaining solid portability
02:24.32``Erik(though most of it is by leveraging BRL-CAD's portability...)
02:25.10brlcadi'm curious how fast the compile would be without recursive on brl-cad, but hell if I am interested in 1) breaking something that works, 2) editing 535 files, and 3) giving the gnu folks satisfaction on their rediculous ranting
02:25.13``Erikbear in mind, the code is crude as it's early dev
02:25.59``ErikI have 3 subdirs total, with the subdirs being linked into the toplevel binary... it was a no-brainer to go with non-recursive
02:26.26``Eriknow PARTS of BRL-CAD might benefit from non-recursive... but most of it is best recursive
02:26.39``Eriklike ADRT might benefit, since it often has 2 or 3 .c files in a subdir
02:27.13``Erikand the data dirs might
02:28.39brlcadyou can still have the makefiles deep with recursive
02:28.57brlcadand just have #include's on the top level
02:37.14``Erik-m 'only linux is broken' :D
02:38.25MaloeranIs their commit email notification thing broken?
02:38.48``Erikeys
02:38.49``Erikyes
02:38.57``ErikI got an error from this mac, as well
02:39.09``Erikand its' ruby, not python... I was in err earlier
02:39.24``ErikI emailed myself the error, I'll mail, uh, someone... tomorrow...
02:39.44MaloeranI haven't received any cvs commit notification since the one at 5h42 this morning
02:42.11``Erikperhaps there's a muckup with my account, or with using a mac to commit *shrug*
02:42.17MaloeranWhat exactly did you change? I'm not even sure it's commiting
02:42.24``Erikit committed
02:42.46``ErikRF/config.h
02:43.02MaloeranRight, okay
02:43.18``ErikI put #ifdef __linux__ around RF_I386_STACK_ALIGNMENT_HACK
02:44.08MaloeranThe problem is glibc specific. Isn't glibc used on other platforms too?
02:44.15``Eriknot to my knowledge
02:44.48``Eriknone of the BSD family and no UNIX uses glibc
02:44.55``Erikum, HURD/HIRD might
02:44.56``Erikbut, uh
02:44.58``Erikno one uses that
02:44.59``Erik:D
02:45.40MaloeranI think you can run some patched glibc on various BSD
02:45.57``Erikwell, yeah, there're ports to install a tweaked glibc
02:46.00``Erikbut its' not natural
02:46.23``Erik<-- needs to install dragonfly and netbsd to get total coverage :/
02:46.58MaloeranI probably broke again whatever platforms doesn't have stdint.h, but that's a standard C99 header, and I require C99 to compile
02:48.03``Erikstdint showed up in the bsd family a long time ago
02:48.39MaloeranYou once added some switch to check for the existence of stdint.h, so I assume it wasn't present on some of your test platforms
02:48.47``Erikands ince you're c99, you exclude pretty much all the real UNIX platforms
02:49.53``Erikheh, too bad I don't have aix and hpux boxen
02:51.04MaloeranThe SOW said the code is to be written in C99, I'm not too concerned if some archaic Unix platforms still live in 1989. Is it really of any importance to you guys?
02:51.30``Erikso when're you cutting that mega-box up for different platforms, mal?
02:51.31``Erikum
02:51.48``Erikunfortunately, most of our "primary use" machines ARE that archaic.
02:51.59MaloeranOuch, I see
02:52.09``Erikrunning, y'know, irix 6.5 and one running solaris 8
02:52.26``Erikwhen I get my solaris 10 cd's, I might 'donate' an upgrade
02:52.41``Erikto both the e420 and an x86
02:53.01``ErikI mostly care about fbsd, obsd and osX these days
02:53.07``Erika tiny little bit about windows and linux
02:53.23``Erikirix and solaris are nice, but mostly historical....
02:53.51``Erikbut that's my personal profile, it doesnt' align with the common user
02:53.51``Erik:D
02:54.33``Erik<-- will keep doing what he can to keep you portable to the platforms that matter...
02:54.44``Erikperformance wise, though, a broad install base may be a big eye opener
02:54.47MaloeranI don't see how you can give more importance to BSD than Linux for some real software
02:55.30``Erikhm, linux is a limelight baby, bsd is a workhorse in teh shadows
02:55.35MaloeranI know you are personally more fond of BSD, but I don't think that reflects what should be the real priorities...
02:55.43``Erikyahoo, for example... is mostly a fbsd cluster.
02:55.56``Erikyahoo stores used to be lisp, heh
02:55.59``Erik:)
02:56.07MaloeranSome clusters actually run fbsd? I thought it was all Linux, from what I saw
02:56.22``Erikmy baddest "real" machine for my customers is a fbsd cluster
02:56.24``Erikuh
02:56.30``Eriklinux has marketting, dude
02:56.32``Erikfbsd don't
02:56.56``Erikin setting up clusters, linux was totally non-functional after a week of effort
02:57.06``Erikfbsd is so mature and just THERE, I have it all done in 2 hours
02:57.16``Erikand I'm not totally linux stupid, last I checked :)
02:57.47Maloeran:) Surprising...
02:57.54``Erikfrom talking to both fbsd and linux people, linux is a bunch of 'kids' who are very vocal... lots of /. stuff
02:58.07``Erikfbsd users tend to be old professional types who "mkae it work" without fuss
02:58.14``Erikcdrom.com back in teh day was a fbsd machine
02:58.39brlcadbefore they sold out
02:58.45``Erikheh
02:58.48``ErikTEH DAY!!!
02:59.05MaloeranWell, the MSRC clusters of you guys at the ARL all run Linux
02:59.06justin__ftp.cdrom.com/pub/asm/party/95
02:59.20MaloeranWhich I think would be an important point to care about Linux a bit
02:59.25``Erikno, most MSRC clusters are not linux, a couple BIGGIES are linux
02:59.49``ErikI think aix is better represented
03:00.25``Erikbut bear in mind, MSRC is not about ultimate performance or maintainability, there's a lot of beaurocracy.... a lot of weight is put towards sanctioned finger pointing
03:00.33``Erikwhich is what sgi/altix and redhat enterprise buy you
03:01.12``Erikthey aint' runnin' gentoo, dude
03:02.19MaloeranEh well, all right then. I'll be one of these vocal Linux kids :)
03:02.46``Erikif you had serious experience in a non-linux *nix, I think you'd change your tune
03:02.47``ErikI did
03:03.04``Eriktwingy did once he was seriously exposed to fbsd
03:03.35``Eriklinux is a dandy little toy os, a good stepping stone... :D
03:03.36``Erik*cough*
03:05.59MaloeranTsk :), there's so little potential and theorical gain from learning fbsd, and I'll need years to be on par with my Linux
03:16.07Twingyyou would think that with glDisable (GL_DEPTH_TEST); that each successive call to drawing an object would draw on top of anything previously existing
03:16.41``Erik*blink* one would think
03:17.26Twingygiven I am seeing random behavior in fbsd and winderz (both are different) I don't know what to believe
03:17.37Twingyboth are wrong
03:23.43Twingyweird, now it works
03:24.06Twingydisplay lists + depth buffer toggles do bad things
03:40.38louipcgentoo is a maintenance nightmare if you ask me
03:41.24louipcyeah I have to try fbsd
04:00.33MaloeranI found Gentoo is fine as long as you install and update what you need, and never ever try  emerge world
04:03.06louipcArchlinux is kind of like fbsd in that respect
04:09.00TwingynumaPICOS
04:09.54MaloeranErik, give to fbsd better NUMA support than Linux and its libNUMA, and I'll move over :)
04:44.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050306.dsl.bell.ca)
05:03.15deltazapMaloeran: if you do emerge world, make sure you have a nice distcc system set up :P
05:04.15brlcador just really nice hardware ;)
05:06.48deltazapif distcc worked well with darwinports on osx, then i'd be really happy using my powermac to help compile things
05:08.34louipcdeltazap: Maloeran has a pretty sweet machine I don't think he needs to worry about that
05:09.14brlcad``Erik: got all the web services upgraded now
05:13.30brlcad``Erik: since I actually looked at gdb instead of just doing the fix, there are multiple crash points or at least places where mod_security, mod_rewrite, and libphp could independently (i.e. with the other two disabled) crash httpd due to various issues
05:13.57brlcadone crashed inside a log attempt, another while lookup up httpd's running username, another while talking back through apr
05:15.53brlcadthe fix is pretty simple, have to get php and apache to both (forcibly) have -pthread added to the CFLAGS -- for php this amounts to building, cd into work, reconfigure with CFLAGS=-pthread, cd out, and reinstall .. for apache2, it's a matter of editing the ports Makefile and appending -pthread to the CFLAGS
05:16.05brlcadonce that was done, everything was a happy donkey
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08:05.45MaloeranWoah... This new release of Firefox guesses what I'm typing in its integrated google search before I'm done
08:06.11MaloeranI type the first two words of a book title, and it fills up the rest o.O
08:11.38MaloeranErik, SURVICE's email troubles don't seem limited to cvs commits. Sending an email to Mark failed with "TCP active open: Failed connect() Error: Connection refused" for the last 14 hours
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10:19.23*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
13:37.13``Erikstupid intarweb
13:37.37``Erikbrlcad: might be worth tweaking /etc/make.conf to always include -pthread in the CFLAGS
14:16.44MaloeranErik, any objection to the use of non-public SDL function calls? The only way to get efficient N buffering
14:17.13MaloeranLooking at the source, it should be portable, though perhaps could break with future SDL versions
14:24.26MaloeranDarn, the functions required are declared static, no symbols
14:26.28``Erikthe part that matters is the raytrace engine, not the demo app... right?
14:27.24MaloeranAnd you guys are going to use the raytracing engine to shoot one ray at a time without using 10% of the engine's features *sigh*
14:29.20``Erikat first
14:29.23``Erikfor one of the apps
14:29.27``Erikthe "selling" app
14:29.38``Erikbut things like CCI will not be designed so r-tarded
14:31.09``Erikstringing it into isst will be much more optimal than "the selling app" :/
14:31.28MaloeranAh, what are CCI/ISST?
14:31.58MaloeranThe video recording performs N buffering so it scales well with threads and distributed processing, but the SDL visualization clearly doesn't ( block and wait every frame )
14:32.18``Erikother projects... :) ISST is interactive, CCI is more of a very specialized large scale global illumination concept (not started yet)
14:32.39MaloeranNeat
14:33.06``Erikisst is in the BRL-CAD cvs repo as src/adrt/isst
14:33.27MaloeranFurther development of Rayforce is likely to become closed-source though, as the ARL stops support and Survice wants to lead
14:34.47Maloeranwhich I think is rather unfortunate, ah well...
14:35.21``Erik*shrug* the core of it will go lgpl, right?
14:35.39``Erikas long as whatever builds on it adheres to the license, who cares?
14:36.32MaloeranAs copyright holder, I can pick any license for future developments, and Survice clearly prefers closed source
14:37.42MaloeranHum, and they advocate patents too
14:40.27MaloeranAnyhow, I just thought you guys should know that future improvements ( such as the long list of postponed optimisations ) will most likely not be LGPL
14:40.54MaloeranUnless Wendy changes her mind within a month somehow :)
15:27.38MaloeranGetting a pointer within the current_video struct through SDL_GetVideoInfo(), then from that pointer scanning memory around for the ->shadow surface pointer, and then modifying that pointer, works.  It's also the ugliest hack I have done in a while :), I don't think I'm going to keep that
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16:14.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): more progress on dvec class: constructors, equality and addition.
16:15.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: add simple test for dvec<8> correctness
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17:45.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): "finish" implementing dvec. added operator for debugging.
17:47.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/brep_test.cpp: finish testing methods of dvec<>. add simple performance test for dvec<>.
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18:40.53``Erikmal: we'll throw so much horky geometry at it that sdl blit speeds will be irrelevant :)
18:43.10MaloeranGood good :), you'll have to be far in the millions
18:45.39MaloeranHeard anything abou SURVICE's dead email daemon? Where's the cron job to start it back?
18:45.43Maloeranabout*
18:47.19MaloeranDon't try sending them emails, it bounces back
19:32.45``Erik<--  knows nothing of their internal operations.
19:35.48MaloeranDistributed processing with frame buffering sure saturates my 100mbit fast, I need a better router or switch. It works nicely though
19:36.35MaloeranAny thoughts on a fast and loseless compression library that would be appropriate for these chunks of pixels?
19:36.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: wdb_smooth_bot doesn't seem to have a help entry, which causes all hlep to fail. commenting it out for now...
19:36.50``Erikloseless? hrm, no :/
19:39.45MaloeranA whole lot of papers on google on fast lossless image compression
19:40.04``Erikhmmmm
19:40.15``Eriklets see, the base model I want to try is 7.2 million triangles
19:40.34``Erikif that's not enough, I can put a hundred or a thousand of them in a scene
19:42.42MaloeranNeat, should be a bit slower than the 2 million triangles galleon, depends on space complexity
19:43.27``Erikvery compact and dense
19:43.59``Erikwith some larger 'shelling' triangles on the outside, I believe
19:44.21``Erik7214956 triangles
19:44.44Maloeran*nods* The galleon is a difficult for space partitionning techniques with these ropes and sails everywhere
20:47.14IriX64brlcad: has this occurred anywhere else? syntax error in config using automake 1.9.6? starting from autogen, i isolated it down to aclocal, dropped back to 1.8.5 and all is well.
20:49.18IriX64btw this one installs right ;)
20:50.44IriX64btw i'm quite willing to test any issues you're having if you need a test bed.
20:57.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/377531
20:57.19IriX64that setup succeds.
21:23.34IriX64hey where's louipc?
21:34.29*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.69)
21:42.21``Erikmal, how do I convert something to rtgg?
21:43.19MaloeranErr... Right, give me a moment on that one
21:43.35MaloeranI converted the old rtml files but forgot to write a g->rtgg
21:43.56``Erik:) g-tri.c doens't do anything
21:44.12MaloeranThat's Lee's example I think
21:44.20``Erikyeah
21:44.24MaloeranHum... Perhaps I even forgot to commit the rtml converter
21:44.32``ErikI don't think you ever committed anything like that
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22:34.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: how about fixing the problem instead, should be wdb_bot_smooth
22:43.53CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: s/srtdup/strdup/ typo
22:59.17louipc:O I thought archer wasn't announced. It's mentioned in wikipedia hah
23:14.01``Erikhehehe, my quick greps didn't show a plausible candidate, guess I just grepped wrong :)
23:17.05brlcadthat command used to be called smooth_bot
23:17.23brlcadthen was later renamed to bot_smooth to be more consistent with the other bot_* commands
23:18.07``ErikI vagually remember hearing that before
23:18.29brlcadmike actually fixed the few remaining, but apparently missed the help one
23:18.30``Erik<-- was trying to learn facetize, 'help' was puking in mged, pulled a bob to make it work *shrug* :)
23:18.42brlcadyep
23:18.45brlcadshame on you :)
23:18.59``Erikheh, I only know a tiny fraction of the stuff in the package
23:19.00brlcadpulling a bob is never a good thing :)
23:19.11``Erikand broad greps weren't helping me...
23:19.33``Erikgrep isn't exactly a context free language
23:19.36brlcadthat whole triple table foo for help is a bit funky in itself
23:20.02``Erik<-- grepped a couple choice subsymbols through the whole tree before commenting it out... and just commented it, didn't delete it...
23:20.29``ErikI knew I was punting, so I left breadcrumbs :) I try not to BREAK things
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070302

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070302

00:32.55*** join/#brlcad bsder (n=andrewl@cpe-66-75-155-122.san.res.rr.com)
01:31.15CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: abort with a clean message if a pkgIndex.tcl file does not exist since open's failure message is less than ideal
01:32.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl: oop, remove debug print
01:33.35CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ami.tcl: abort with a clean message if a tclIndex file does not exist since open's failure message is less than ideal
01:41.50IriX64should report an error yes, but to abort?
01:43.55CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): heh, there's quality control for ya.. check for existance of variable name so we actually do some work..
01:43.57brlcadaborting is just a rude way of error'ing
01:44.31brlcadit should be more graceful about it though, yeah
01:44.39IriX64agreed
01:44.46brlcadto fix it, look at the file dsp loading code
01:44.59brlcadsrc/librt/g_dsp.c .. match it to the abort error message you get
01:45.36IriX64g_dsp.c line 3134 ive looked.
01:49.37brlcadif you "cd db" from inside the source tree, it should find its data file
01:51.00IriX64after i bring up mged you mean, and load it from within "db"?
01:52.06Maloeranbrlcad, Erik, can I assume zlib is not an unreasonable required dependency?
01:52.30brlcadMaloeran: it's already one
01:52.34brlcad(to brl-cad)
01:52.44brlcadso no, not at all ;)
01:52.52MaloeranOh. :)
01:53.16brlcadpretty much anything like zlib that has zero dependencies of it's own are usually unreasonable
01:53.51brlcador if the dep is just something like zlib with no deps of it's own
01:55.55MaloeranUsually unreasonable?
01:55.56MaloeranJust making sure you didn't intend to type "reasonable" instead
01:55.56brlcadother similar deps we currently already have, libpng, zlib, libregex, and termlib (not full-blown curses)
01:55.56brlcader, yeah .. reasonable
01:56.04IriX64will try it soon as this make install is done brlcad.
01:56.24MaloeranI can keep it optional, but if won't go nicely if processing nodes are compiled with/without it, without further handshake tests anyway
01:56.36brlcadsomething like gtk sit at the other extreme .. dependency hell
01:56.51*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707015.dsl.bell.ca)
01:57.03brlcadzlib is trivial to use, no reason not to other than technical benefit
01:57.09MaloeranNevermind actually, I'll keep it optional, I really prefer to keep dependencies to a minimum
01:57.20brlcadwhat are your deps currently?
01:57.26louipcMaloeran: cool vids ;)
01:57.31brlcadsdl's a fairly heavy one for keeping them to a minimum :)
01:57.42Twingyon my system I take make; make install and gtk isn't much of an issue :)
01:57.52MaloeranThe engine : nothing but C99 and pthreads.  The demos : SDL
01:58.03MaloeranThanks louipc :)
01:58.04brlcadthat's not too shabby
01:58.05TwingyI suppose anything is dependency hell if you have a crappy package system
01:58.23Twingyi.e. irix freeware
01:58.30Twingyi.e. redhat rpms
01:59.05MaloeranThe video recording demo doesn't require SDL clearly, but I prefer some visible interactive output ;)
01:59.06brlcadwhich is the reality of being and caring about cross-platform
01:59.16brlcadif you don't care about that, then .. sure, not an issue
02:01.46MaloeranBy the way brlcad, I found how to add proper N buffering support in SDL, but I don't think my patch would be accepted. It would be a mess to require a patched SDL too
02:02.56brlcadnever know till you submit ;)
02:03.07brlcadi'd like that feature myself
02:03.38brlcadprobably more of doing the patch in a way that is clean to the API
02:04.42MaloeranEasy : just provide a function to replace the "shadow" surface of any screen surface with another identical in size and format. The previous shadow surface becomes an independent surface
02:06.45IriX64brlcad: tops reports mapped file open failed twice but it did do the list.
02:07.15brlcadso replace shadow with a pointer into an array, and add an API function to attach additional SDL_Surfaces (which just add to the array) like SDL_AddFlipSurface()
02:07.41brlcadthen SDL_Flip just rotates the pointer through the array
02:08.00brlcadshould be neat n clean enough to accept unless someone has moral objections to it
02:08.01MaloeranRotation is not good enough, I must be able to hop erratically
02:08.22MaloeranReplacing the shadow surface is clean really, just changing one little pointer
02:08.41brlcadso add another that is SDL_SetFlipSurface() too, but let default just rotate or somesuch
02:09.01brlcadyeah, but that exposes an internal .. I can't see them accepting that
02:09.48MaloeranThere's a function around it.  SDL_SetShadowSurface( SDL_surface *shadow );
02:10.06MaloeranThe previous shadow/screen surface becomes a regular surface at that point, very simple
02:10.18brlcadso they already have the func
02:10.25MaloeranNo :), that's mine
02:10.33brlcadah.. hmm
02:11.37brlcadmaybe they'll take it just like that, though they might not like the name if "Shadow" surfaces aren't exposed anywhere else
02:12.01MaloeranSDL_SetScreenSurface() might be more appropriate
02:12.03brlcadbut that's easy enough to change if that's their only gripe
02:12.16brlcadgo for it ;)
02:12.37MaloeranNow, I need to learn how to make a patch! :) I think it involves diff
02:12.41brlcadtalked to any of the devs about making the change?
02:12.42brlcadhah
02:12.45brlcadserious? :)
02:13.19MaloeranInitial reply from dev was "I don't think it would be something we'd add to SDL itself"
02:13.35brlcaddiff -u file > mymod.patch
02:13.50brlcader diff -u fileold filenew > mymod.patch
02:14.52MaloeranThanks
02:15.51MaloeranIf multiple files were modified, can I append all the "diff" to the same patch?
02:16.06louipc:O
02:16.09IriX64brlcad: aclocal-1.8.5/automake-1.8.5 fixes that syntax error in config bug.
02:16.27louipcMaloeran: yep
02:16.29brlcaddiff -r -u dirold dirnew if you have entire directory differences, or even better ... cvs diff -u > mod.patch
02:17.30brlcadmight want to add -b -B if you inadvertently changed whitespace too .. that's usually annoying to include with feature patches
02:17.57brlcad(never hurts, just means ignore differences in whitespace)
02:18.03MaloeranAll right, thanks
02:26.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ami.tcl ampi.tcl): aha! enlightenment hath arrived. creating the index files actually sources the file args provided so when it ends up running the other amp?i.tcl script, it was choking on the error. just return 0 to indicate success.
02:27.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (7 files in 7 dirs): ws
02:51.09IriX64``Erik, have you forgiven me yet for that wallpaper joke?
02:57.49IriX64:)
02:58.54IriX64video magnification = 101             11111111110000000000111111111 right ? :)
02:59.30IriX64the ten 1's and ten 0's are stored in the fram buffer.
02:59.38IriX64frame too.
03:00.49IriX64ive used this, top half of the screen is normal, bottom half is x10.
04:16.48louipcshould variable names be that long? :P
04:19.28MaloeranProbably not :)
04:21.20louipcI know it's tough to juggle descriptiveness between brevity
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14:12.17brlcad*yawn*
14:48.00``Erikindeed.
14:53.13MaloeranArgh no, not another 30cm of snow
14:59.38``Erikhmmmm, the 'btree' I'm supposed to look at, is that the balanced binary tree in RF/mm.c ?
15:00.00``Erik(and a btree is a fairly specific data structure that is not binary)
15:00.41MaloeranYes, the btree functions in mm.c. mmBinaryTree* was a bit too long
15:01.15MaloeranIt's not of much importance, I'm just curious to identify the kind of balanced binary tree
16:00.15MaloeranWhat a blizzard. I won't be riding a bicycle again anytime soon
16:03.38``Erikweeee, I got to stomp around the boonies doing "geocaching" tomorrow :D
16:03.41``Erikget to
16:04.30Maloeranstomp boonies, geocaching?
16:05.05``Erikhttp://www.geocaching.com/
16:09.27MaloeranCool, weird stuff
16:10.07brlcadfor the first time?
16:10.34MaloeranOf course not, but rock climbing is not very practical here during winter
16:23.57brlcadso, everything seems to be working at least under os x now with the upgraded tcl/tk
16:24.45brlcadactually, can't check tk so easily just yet, but everything seems to be behaving as it should so far and all tests run/pass
16:26.43``Eriksweet
16:33.12MaloeranNeat, Survice crashed their email server by "exceeding disk space", for 3 days now
16:43.14``Erikexplains why my mail to eric didn't work
17:30.09``Erikheh
17:30.13``Erikmal...
17:30.33``Erikit looks like an attempt at an AVL tree
17:30.35``Erikbut it's not balanced.
17:33.38``Erik(that woulda been MUCH faster if it were commented)
17:41.47MaloeranOf course it's balanced
17:42.15MaloeranWell kind of, it maintains the tree balance within good limits
17:42.43``Erik'within good limits'? :D
17:43.02MaloeranThe most expensive branch can never be twice longuer than the shortest
17:43.09MaloeranAnd typically, the average is fairly good
17:44.24MaloeranI'm impressed you managed to make sense of the code :)
17:46.46``Erikheh, it was rough and I still don't grok parts of it :)
17:47.11``Eriksome notional comment of what MM_BTREE_FLAGS_STEP is would make it a lot easier to read
17:47.44``Erikand the naming convention makes things rough... 'anode' where I may've used 'ancestor_n'
17:47.49MaloeranIt's a marker to recognize patterns in the tree structure
17:49.27``Erikyeah, but that's one that's highlighted all through the insert ufnction on my printout as I was trying to 'solve' it :)
17:50.02Maloeran:) I think it's kind of elegant, very efficient
17:50.36MaloeranAnd the worst, rare case ( longuest twice as long as shortest ) is not too bad
17:51.11MaloeranSo anyway, it's surely nothing new, but putting a name on the balanced binary tree could be nice
17:51.57``Erikit's not really balanced, though, the min and max tree dpeth differ by more than 1 in cases
17:52.35MaloeranOf course. The point is high performance with a very much acceptable "worst case", it's not a perfect balance
17:52.54MaloeranGetting a perfect balance constantly is way too expensive, performance is the objective here
17:53.55``Erik*shrug* well done avl's and rb trees are pretty fast, there was another one that stored dpeth at each node and rotated on the way down to maintain balance, I forget its name, though
17:54.06``ErikI know it had lightening bolts on the diagrams in the MIT book :D
17:54.51MaloeranI think it's a weird rb tree. Anyhow, I was mostly looking for critisism on the rest of the code :)
17:55.08``Erikrb trees are weird avl trees *shrug*
17:55.52MaloeranIf you have a good rb implementation nearby, we could benchmark one day
17:57.18``Erikhm
17:57.18``Erikglib implements a couple balanced trees iirc, and libbu in BRL-CAD has an rb tree
17:57.18``Erikbah, stupid linux
18:02.44*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
18:03.32MaloeranWoah. Erik, these harsh words wounded my Linux kernel so deeply that it commited suicide
18:04.16``Erikheh, yes, such a fickle and unstable OS
18:04.19``Erikemo software
18:04.20``Erik:D
18:04.43MaloeranAn instant reboot, I can't blame overclocking on that box
18:06.00MaloeranSeriously, this is weird..
18:10.17*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca)
18:16.26IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/378697
18:20.00IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/378701
18:20.07IriX64shouldn't these ....
18:20.18IriX64be restored by autoconf?
18:20.32IriX64i mean your script generates them somehow but...
18:26.05IriX64after running, autogen.sh aclocal still complains, but the missing files are now there :)
18:35.26IriX64``Erik thought you people were interested.
18:36.49``Erikum, libtool, actually
18:36.55``Erikfrom the libtoolize command
18:37.03``Erikand automake, I think, if running in the -a mode
18:37.13``Erikjust use autogen.sh
18:37.34``Erikon windows, automake might require -ca
18:37.50IriX64no it runs successfully.
18:37.56IriX64with no options.
18:38.12``Erikuh, that second paste says that it does NO run successfully
18:38.27IriX64urf thats after a distclean.
18:38.43IriX64after autogen.sh if run standalone it does.
18:47.06brlcadIriX64: for the third time, that's because you're running the wrong manual steps and missing arguments
18:47.57brlcadif you're not going to read autogen.sh to figure out what those steps should be, don't waste (our and your) time with reports that individual steps aren't doing what you expect them to do
18:51.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: include appropriate headers (cygwin fix)
18:57.55``Erikfucking goddamn mother fucking!~#!~@!~
18:58.25``Erikin the middle of a build, a dialog on the windows machine pops up saying that it's downloaded updates and will automatically restart in 3 minutes... and the only button on the thing was 'restart now'
18:58.47brlcadhehehe
19:02.53IriX64turn off automatic updates i hate that #%^$#%#% thing.
19:04.23``Erik'corporate' computer, I have no control of that machine
19:04.38IriX64heh you're a marine ;)
19:04.43``Erikshit, I probably need a triple signed memo to move an icon on the desktop
19:04.55IriX64see above.
19:04.58IriX64:)
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19:09.04IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/378754   <---- your steps.
19:11.34brlcadyes, that's better
19:12.05brlcadaside from a few additional sanity checks that autogen.sh does for you
19:12.31brlcadlike restoring clobbered files, making sure there's no buggy versions doing bad things
19:13.04brlcadthe aclocal warnings are benign and not our problem, you 'll notice they are for different projects
19:27.09``Erikalso; sweet. my little single threaded program took an 8 core opteron linux box to a load of 6 and ugly system consumption
19:28.02IriX64brlcad: was just trying to help.
19:28.28``Erikhehehehe but it made it to 17 gigs before puking, neat
19:30.37IriX64try void main(void) { for(i=0i;1000000000000;i++) fputs(outfile,"Hello there"); }
19:31.20IriX64ermf comma missing, oh well.
19:32.08``Erikthis was straining mal's semi-balanced tree routine
19:33.46IriX64reminds me of OS/2 and trying to see how well the swap file worked :)
19:34.19IriX64maybe ugly but it works.
19:34.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (Makefile.am librt/Makefile.am): wire in libsysv as a librt dep (cygwin)
19:34.40IriX64heh
19:38.32IriX64where's that answer to life, the universe, and everythin?
19:38.56brlcadIriX64: I understand.. but insisting on going down a faulty route isn't helpful.. now investigating g_dsp.. that's helpful ;)
19:39.20IriX64don't remind me, btw i am still looking at it.
19:39.49brlcadactually.. IriX64, since you seem intent on finding faults.. there is one particular area that you could help with
19:40.10IriX64where?
19:40.33brlcadand all it really involves is running the converter on the example geometry databases
19:40.50IriX64which converter you have several.
19:41.02IriX64or do you mean asc2g?
19:41.49brlcadyeah, sry .. i mean picking one of them that facetizes, like g-stl or g-dxf
19:41.59``Erikhm
19:42.03brlcadg-something where "something" is some format that you can actually evaluate
19:42.34IriX64ill see what i can do.
19:43.22brlcadthen basically just ending up with a list/table of the geometry files in db/ and for each top level object, reporting whether g-whatever succeeded fully, partially, aborted abnormally, or outright crashed
19:43.42brlcadheck, if you did it for all the converters, that would be freaking sweet
19:54.35IriX64tell you right now somethings wonky with g-dxf or dxf-g i translated to dxf and then used dxf-g and something got lost in the translation.
19:55.40brlcadwhich is why it would be useful to have a list of the geometry files and the behavior
19:55.55brlcadthat would be a case for it was a partial conversion
19:56.04brlcads/for/where/
19:56.18IriX64think its the file? I'll try another.
19:56.39brlcadsure, something like moss.g should be almost guaranteed to complete successfully
19:59.24``Erikfeck
19:59.32IriX64says there no such thing in moss, guess i could bring mged up and verify that but you probably know.
19:59.39IriX64as all i mean.
20:00.13brlcadeach file has a different set of top-level objects
20:00.24brlcadrun "mged -c file.g tops" to get the list
20:00.39brlcadeach top-level object should be tested individually
20:02.19IriX64got it found my problem with all
20:02.33IriX64forgot the .g (goof that I am.)
20:05.01``Erik(also keep in mind, _GLOBAL is not an object, it's a container for some file wide things like db title and default unit)
20:05.24``Erikso moss.g will show _GLOBAL and all.g, you only care about all.g in that file
20:05.50IriX64ty maybe ill tackle it obviously you're in no rush for it.
20:06.14``Erikheh, we all have 8 zillion things to do
20:06.17brlcadnot a "rush", but highly useful
20:06.22IriX64ty
20:06.42``Erikand only three people really 'work' on the project, with other competing time consumers :/
20:07.22brlcadmore than three, but the % of their time is definitely shared
20:07.26``Erikhey, brlcad, is 'egf' done, or are you still mucking with it?
20:07.37brlcadegf?
20:07.41``Erik3 'primary' ones, I think... I haven't seen anything from bob in a while
20:07.46``Erikendgame
20:07.49brlcadahh
20:08.15brlcadno, it's not "done" .. and is going to continue through a follow-on project over the upcoming months
20:08.27brlcadthe converter effort is just about done
20:08.31``Erikah
20:09.03brlcadthe follow-up should lead towards an improved C++ api to the geometry engine, as well as testing infrastructure improvements
20:09.45brlcadamong other goodies, like helping with the brep improvements
20:10.02brlcaddamn it's awesome outside right now
20:12.09``Erikwahhh, I wanna be out playing geocache, wwwaaaahhhhhh
20:12.52``Erikbe a fun sailing day ;/
20:21.28MaloeranUrgh Erik, 17gb of balanced binary trees? Are you trying to find a bug in my code or what? :)
20:21.58``Erikum
20:21.59``Erikyes?
20:22.16MaloeranGood, keep at it :)
20:22.26``ErikFailed to malloc: 37748736000
20:22.41``Erikdepth: 29 -> 56 (4)
20:22.41``Erik800.000000      :       307.289077 seconds
20:23.02``Erikaand actually I'm mucking with nmg facetization right now :)
20:23.20``Erikwaiting for the widnows people to quit dicking with my computer so I can continue cygwin efforts
20:24.30MaloeranYou had to call a windows sysadmin to be authorized to open a .c file, or perhaps to execute vim?
20:25.11``Erikheh
20:25.17``Erikno, they asked me ot get off of it so they could patch it
20:25.26MaloeranI looked into nmg quite a bit too, but it wasn't very clear how to proceed to make triangles face the proper way
20:25.36MaloeranI would have kept going if I had more time to spare
20:25.52MaloeranThat too
20:27.09``Eriksince nmg solves closed volumes, you can do a surface walk and orient winding or normals with two easy distinct possibilities: either they're all correct or all incorrect... and if they're ALL incorrect, just flip them all and it's done :)
20:28.10``Erikbut if it pukes on dangling faces or unclosed volumes, you don't get jack shit *shrug*
20:28.32MaloeranYes, it's all part of the same problem really. Making it work properly
20:29.32``Erikbut I have my winderz machine back *sigh*
20:29.55MaloeranWhy are you doing this on windows?
20:30.15``Erikfixing nmg is on fbsd, but I'm trying to get it to build on cygwin... different effort
20:31.48CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/ (6 files): restructure and simplify the jove tutorial/teaching stuff.
20:43.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (7 files in 6 dirs): add SYSV where needed (cygwin)
20:43.52IriX64of BRL-CAD i mean.
20:44.43IriX64how do I get it to you, it's huge.
20:46.44brlcadi doubt he needs it
20:46.48brlcadhe installed cygwin
20:46.52MaloeranI don't think Erik will accept any .dll file
20:47.01IriX64ahhh we can compare notes.
20:47.18IriX64the dll he has if he installed cygwin.
20:47.38IriX64its in /bin .
20:48.59IriX64212,296kbyte bz2 file.
20:50.29brlcadlouipc: does archlinux have a shorthand name?
20:50.38brlcadwhat does gnu call it?
20:51.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: don't use winsock if building on cygwin, stick with UNIX style
20:52.54IriX64``Erik it's photon mapping my favorite wall candy.
20:53.34``Erikif you can get 'rise' to build, it's niftier...  src/adrt/rise
20:53.52``Erikfiguring out how to USE it will keep ya busy for a while, tho
20:53.52IriX64ermf SDL issues still, working on it.
20:54.03IriX64heh no doubt.
20:54.18``Erik(but once you figure it out, you can tell us, so we can use it, too ;)
20:55.38IriX64Jean-Luc picard, says to his Singer sewing machine repairman, "make it sew" :)
20:55.47IriX64thats not mine tho.
20:58.41IriX64hah nobody looked at the binaries in incoming?
21:00.20``Erikhttp://www.tribeam.com/product.html#QC15
21:00.32IriX64tried to put wincad in there, permission denied (shrug)
21:00.32``Erikjust in case you NEED to charge 15 at a time
21:01.19MaloeraniPods are like duct tape, one never has quite enough
21:03.45IriX64The novelty of this picture never wears off for m.
21:03.49IriX64+e
21:06.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca)
21:07.39IriX64apologies my own darn fault that denied thing.
21:13.41CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: (log message trimmed)
21:13.41CIA-7BRL-CAD: complete rewrite of the auto_path handling code in support of the forthcoming
21:13.42CIA-7BRL-CAD: tcl/tk upgrade (8.5a5). the logic is entirely changed so that less arbitrary
21:13.42CIA-7BRL-CAD: searching is performed. now the routine attempts to detect whether it's being
21:13.42CIA-7BRL-CAD: run from a source directory or from an installed location, and allowing
21:13.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: TCLCAD_LIBRARY_PATH to be obeyed for additional paths. this needs
21:13.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: tweaking/testing on other platforms, but the overall approach is a vast
21:17.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: call TclInitEncodingSubsystem() before Tcl_FindExecutable() in order to avoid what seems to be a race-condition bug inside Tcl_FindExecutable() (bizarre and unknown cause, but this works around the issue)
21:25.06CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c: use bu_file_exists() instead of stat() to see if the file exists
21:25.39brlcadthe big one is just about ready
21:33.18brlcadgiven how big and different the build system changes are, it's almost guaranteed to break somewhere
21:33.57brlcadi already know that irix is currently busted due to the opennurbs stuff (and a busted mipspro c++ install), but even for linux, this might take some tweaking
21:34.19brlcadbut might as well shove it in so the testing and fixing can occur in parallel a little better
21:34.46``Erik*nod*
21:36.00brlcadand here I bet 8.5x6 will come out within a week or two
21:36.13brlcads/x6/a6/
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (352 files in 19 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:47.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
21:47.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (563 files in 20 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:47.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:47.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:47.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:47.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:47.33CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:47.35CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
21:48.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (661 files in 17 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:48.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:48.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:48.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:48.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:48.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:48.22CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
21:48.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/ (764 files in 15 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:48.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:48.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:48.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:48.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:48.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:48.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
21:49.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/library/tzdata/ (270 files in 16 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:49.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:49.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:49.13CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:49.13CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:49.15CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:49.17CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
21:49.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (569 files in 17 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:49.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:49.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:49.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:49.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:49.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:49.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
21:50.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (592 files in 21 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:50.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: upgrade tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5; also move to a recursive configure, using
21:50.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS to call upon tcl, tk, and enigma's configure scripts as needed
21:50.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: instead of redoing their build systems for our purpose. this has a rather
21:50.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: drastic impact on the way the libraries are linked together, including the need
21:50.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: to compile tcl/tk static so as to avoid libtool portability issues as well as
21:50.27CIA-7BRL-CAD: letting us take advantage of their build system for reduced maintenance and
22:02.12MaloeranOh my, you are being very productive today Sean!
22:03.19brlcadthat's a couple weeks of effort actually
22:03.54brlcadit is one "changeset", though it does feel good to finally get it into CVS
22:04.38brlcadthat's one of those exceedingly rare examples where it can't be incremental, entire dependency upgrade
22:06.48``Erik*cough* branch *cough* *cough* O:-)
22:07.36brlcadthat would have just delayed it another day overall
22:07.45brlcadand then been dead
22:08.19brlcadiiinteresting, http://code.google.com/p/google-gtags/
22:10.46brlcadwhat we should have, however, is a STABLE branch .. for folks like Dan and Lee that need it
22:10.52IriX64``Erik checkout ftp://ftp.cygwin.com
22:10.55brlcadnot just a tag, but an actual branch
22:14.25MaloeranCool. Interacting with xmms with the command line interface can pop up error windows on the remote box, but it doesn't say a thing on the command line
22:15.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: upgrade of bundled tcl/tk from 8.4.6 to 8.5a5
22:16.03brlcador make it one of the highlights of the next release?
22:17.12louipcbrlcad: you can refer to archlinux as arch
22:17.20brlcadtoo late :)
22:17.25brlcadalready referring to it as "archlinux" ;)
22:17.34louipchaha that's fine
22:17.55louipcarch is kind of ambiguous too. could be talking about cpu 'architecture'
22:18.34brlcadright, that's part why I didn't like that
22:18.43brlcadwhat does config.guess say for archlinux?
22:19.57``Eriktesselation and tnurb stuff isn't done, it's not documented, ... *shrug*
22:20.04brlcadk
22:20.30brlcadyou did wireframe and mged edit hooks iirc?
22:20.38brlcad(gui hooks)
22:20.42``Erikyeah, those're working
22:20.50``Erikdave just started dorking with it this morning
22:25.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (Makefile.am PKGBUILD.in brlcad.install.in brlcad.sh.in):
22:25.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: initial import of packaging files used by Arch Linux, provided by Loui Chang
22:25.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: (louipc). I took his files and modified them a little so that they are
22:25.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: auto-populated with configure details, so there are fewer assumptions (cept
22:25.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: there's no good way to populate the md5 checksum field without tying this to
22:25.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 'make dist' somehow; might just be best to remove them).
22:26.23CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into the archlinux directory
22:28.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: create the archlinux files: Makefile, PKGBUILD, brlcad.install, brlcad.sh
22:28.47louipcbrlcad: where's config.guess?
22:30.43brlcadlouipc: any package that compiles using configure should have a config.guess stashed somewhere
22:30.52brlcadbrl-cad's is in misc/config.guess
22:31.07brlcadjust run it, and it should give the classic gnu monikers for your system
22:31.20brlcade.g. $ brlcad/misc/config.guess
22:31.21brlcadi386-apple-darwin8.8.1
22:31.53louipcoh alright I'm looking from fresh source 'didn't run ./configure'
22:32.25brlcadyou probably have a half-dozen config.guess files on your system ;)
22:33.37CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS AUTHORS): credit Loui Chang (louipc) with integration of BRL-CAD into the Arch Linux packaging system with special thanks for the effort
22:33.59louipchehe it's very vague i686-pc-linux-gnu
22:34.09brlcadah, generic linux
22:35.19louipcI'm pretty sure the stock archlinux kernel is tweaked a bit
22:35.43louipcfrom vanilla
22:36.11brlcadhm, redhat's coming up similarly generic too .. probably just doesn't matter
22:41.48*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548762CA.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:07.16``Erikhome at last
23:07.45``Erikconfig.guess only sticks around if you ask for something like AC_CANONICAL_SYSTEM
23:09.40``Erikif you wanna announce meaty-metaballs, knock yourself out... they may change drastically in the next month or two now that the 'customer' is finally putting hands on it
23:10.33brlcadthe announcement corresponds to the feature not the user
23:11.08``Erik<-- just noting that the feature may have major impetus to change very soon
23:11.10brlcadmeaning if it was done in a usable state, it's probably worth announcing
23:11.26``Erikit works, mostly
23:11.43``Erikum, crank up mged and 'make blah.s metaball'
23:11.43brlcadthough missing those two critical pieces
23:11.50``Erikrt it and two some editing on it
23:12.03``Erikit's there... can't tesselate and can't convert to nurbs
23:12.19brlcadactually just the first really
23:12.26brlcadthe latter isn't critical
23:12.33``Erikprobably needs a proc-db or two entry, and docs *shrug*
23:12.41``Erikbut the evalution formula may change
23:12.47``Erikevaluation
23:13.07brlcadimplementation detail ;)
23:13.10``Erikbut *shrug* if you wanna toss a line in the announce, :D
23:13.27brlcadnah, I was going to give it a couple paragraphs writeup, not just a line
23:13.36brlcadbut best to have the tessellation for that really
23:14.27brlcadand some image examples for the few announcement channels that handle rich announcements
23:15.17``Erikhm, I have a couple images
23:15.36brlcadi'd just as well hold off until next release or after since there's already a writeup with the license changes
23:15.56``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/niceballs.png
23:16.06``Erikand a couple that were form 1'd for rt06
23:17.02brlcadi would have just made some up on the fly, spell out brl-cad or somesuch, with texture and bump mapping
23:17.30``Erikhrm
23:17.39``Erikwell, the code is in cvs, if you wanna *shurg* :D
23:18.30brlcadthe code?
23:18.53brlcadoh, well yeah
23:19.03brlcadbut again, not if it's still incomplete
23:19.53brlcad(i.e. needing tess)
23:21.39IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/379059
23:24.37IriX64ermf...
23:26.19IriX64found where the error message is coming from.
23:26.53brlcadyes, so it's checking if the mapped file is valid, and aborting
23:27.14IriX64looks like it.
23:27.23brlcadit should recognize earlier that the mapped file is invalid and terminate more gracefully
23:27.33brlcadthe trick is where in g_dsp does it abort?
23:27.41IriX64does that routine get called on every file, it must no?
23:28.42IriX64dude? whats the proper return for error encountered?
23:29.37brlcad``Erik: don't know how many papers you have on the subject, but there were some great ones last year on tessellation of arbitrary implicit surfaces using particles that is impressive
23:31.17brlcadit would work exceptionally well for tessellation of metaballs in particular
23:32.18brlcadhmm.. here's one of the main guy's papers from a couple years ago: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/complex.pdf
23:35.34brlcadahh, and more recently : http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/voronoi.pdf
23:38.19IriX64wonder if that'll actually work, oh well.
23:38.40IriX64had to start this build i'll develop required patience yet.
23:38.46brlcadif you can pinpoint where it aborts, I can probably fix it
23:39.03IriX64man bu.h no error return on it.
23:39.13IriX64ck_mag
23:40.03IriX64err bu_ck_mag i think.
23:41.32IriX64if you're patient, i can let you know if that cheezy fix fixes it.
23:41.59brlcadavoiding the check isn't interesting .. it aborts there correctly
23:42.21brlcadthe point is to find where in g_dsp that it is aborting, detecting that situation beforehand and just returning a failure instead
23:42.28brlcadif you know where in g_dsp, I'll take a loot
23:42.29IriX64not avoiding the check.
23:42.47brlcadedits to bu.h are wrong
23:42.49IriX64line? i posted it... 1334 i think.
23:43.03brlcadin g_dsp.c ?
23:43.07IriX64yes
23:43.14IriX64lemme verify.
23:43.21``Erikparticles? hrm, I just outlined 3 "classic" approaches in a project plan a couple weeks ago... marching cubes, ray shot hack (lee's idea, go figure) and using tnurbs as an intermediate
23:44.08brlcadmarching cubes is the classic
23:44.08IriX643134
23:44.13``Erikancient, even
23:44.18``Erikso old that the patent has expired.
23:44.24brlcadray shot hack is undoubtedly a variation of marching cubes to make it work
23:44.40``Erikkinda sorta almost, I suppose
23:44.45IriX64got that line 3134 in dsp_g.c
23:44.50``Eriklee's answer to every geometry problem is to shoot rays through it and approximate
23:44.54brlcadthe particles stuff is impressive
23:44.58brlcadand instant
23:45.17IriX64err g_dsp.c
23:45.24``ErikI grabbed the newer paper you pasted
23:45.28``Erikis it worth grabbing the older one?
23:45.42brlcadIriX64: ah, hm, interesting
23:45.58brlcadyeah, the older is the basis for the newer
23:46.09brlcadhart is like the main implicit surfaces guy in the field
23:46.12``Erikok, wgot.
23:46.22brlcadhttp://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/papers/
23:46.33brlcadhe's got tons of interesting stuff of relevance
23:47.05brlcadbut those two are probably the most relevant for metaballs as they outline an exact approach
23:47.07``Erikhm, uni of illinois is consistantly a name that pops up in graphics
23:47.27``Erikall cs things, really :/ mebbe moreso than north carolina
23:48.02``Erikperhaps an odd twist of the midwest mentality... "ain't nothin' to do but drink and fuck"... and those who can't get tail or booze... code? :D *duck*
23:49.03brlcadyou've seen hart before, he's almost always presenting or organizing at siggraph
23:51.17``Erikif I say in a session he's spoken at before... I've only been to one siggraph
23:51.37``Erikand I was pretty heavy on fluid dynamics at that one
23:51.43``Erika bit on high perf rt
23:51.46brlcadahh, that's right
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070303

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070303

00:02.36IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/379119
00:05.02``Erikactually, bu_free is a tiny bit more complicated, dude
00:05.19IriX64only looked at the first part :)
00:05.48``Eriksrc/libbu/malloc.c:357
00:06.01IriX64ty just a sec.
00:06.11brlcadIriX64: you did pinpoint the error.. a couple lines off, but I see the problem
00:06.26IriX64glad to help.
00:09.01``Erikswank
00:09.23IriX64a full blown memory manager ``Erik nice lot of work there.
00:10.24``Erikheh, I surspect the person to blame is in a better place these days.
00:10.49IriX64heh the hand having coded moves on eh ? :)
00:12.16IriX64sometimes returning a null can come in handy :)
00:12.22``Erikhappens to the best
00:12.50``Erikunfortunately, I never met the man :) the lore has raised him to godlike status where I work
00:13.28IriX64lore tends to generate legends.
00:13.43IriX64whether they like it or not :)
00:14.28``Erikso have you started pulling top level elements from files to try the conversion circuit?
00:14.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_dsp.c:
00:14.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: fix a bug, or at least really bad behavior, where calling up the wireframe of a
00:14.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: dsp that failed to load any data would cause the app (mged) to abort. the abort
00:14.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: was due to a BU_CK_MAPPED_FILE that was occurring before an already existing
00:14.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: check for whether the data was valid. reordered correctly, and updated the
00:14.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: error message to say what wasn't found so the user might have an idea of what to
00:14.42CIA-7BRL-CAD: look for.
00:15.12``Erik<-- points to src/conv/Formats.csv as the map on might be able to do (lossy) round-trip
00:15.12IriX64man, i still have to work out a plan of attack for that.
00:15.32IriX64won't promise anything.
00:16.13``Erikwell, if you start digging and run into a problem, submitting a bug report via the sourceforge interface would be hugely helpful to us poor code monkeys
00:16.21brlcad``Erik: the lore surrounded him even before he was gone
00:16.24IriX64sure.
00:17.08``Erikheh, perhaps because he was one of the very few tech types who told mgmt types to go fornicate themselves and survived? :D *duck*
00:17.25brlcadnot really, he didn't have anything like that sort of personality
00:17.52brlcadhe just did his own thing, that was usually something breakthrough or insightful and rarely questionable
00:18.09``Erikand as far as I can tell, the real instance was that he was told to do something and said "no"
00:18.16IriX64and he obviously did not produce null code (duck)
00:18.16brlcadhis personality was exceptionally charismatic
00:18.24``Erikand the thing he was probably told to do was probably excessively moronic
00:18.48``Eriklike, say, a technical person attending a briefing on the fy07 program build
00:18.49``Erik*cough*
00:18.50brlcadwell, yeah, he could do that as well, he more than earned it
00:19.36``Erikwendy chewed me out for skipping starks briefing today, told me I have to attend the 'makeup' session... so I put an OMP71 in her box for that entire week off as accrued leave.
00:19.40``Erikmonday might be interesting
00:20.48``Erik(that week is actually to accomodate a friend who wants to visit, it just happens to concide with the briefing)
00:21.03``Erikfucking retarded fucking bullshit
00:24.28brlcadthat you apparently care about and let get to you and fume, bitch, and moan instead of dealing with in more productive ways
00:24.55``Erikheh
00:25.32``ErikI think I've done everything I can short of finding new employment
00:25.39brlcadseriously, you either brush it off and ignore/deal with it, or you do something else (whether it's actively discussing, or going above, or going elsewhere)
00:26.29brlcadas it is, you're somewhere half-way in between half ignoring but with a lot of behind the scenes bitching and moaning
00:26.45brlcadif you're really that unhappy, tell them, and tell them again, and again
00:27.13``Erikheh
00:27.17``ErikI've been to bobs office a few times
00:27.20``Erikand pauls a couple
00:27.26``ErikI'm not bitching behind the scenes, dude :D
00:27.32brlcadyeah you do
00:27.36brlcadmost of the building does
00:28.02brlcadonly a couple people have actually confronted her on topics when they grate
00:29.32brlcadI dunno, I'm not nearly as insulated from that sort of stuff as you might think, but I also just don't care so I ignore it or confront when it does impact me
00:30.07brlcadI arrive for two specific reasons, and those two reasons alone
00:30.18brlcadBRL-CAD and to work with Mike
00:30.45brlcadcan't do the latter, obviously
00:34.20brlcadyou gotta know what you want and stick to it, and for that want to actually be something beneficial .. and stay focused on that -- when you do, the rest just doesn't matter no matter how required things get
00:35.14brlcadanyways, that's all just my thoughts on life in general .. gotta be passionate and happy, else what's the point?
00:35.50brlcadIriX64: and thanks again.. that actually was rather helpful for once ;-)
00:38.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: prevent mged shutdown on DSP objects with no data, thanks to IriX64 for pinpointing the general locality of code that was causing the shutdown.
00:42.49brlcadtis a noble and good goal, a bit vague/abstract, but something
00:45.11brlcadbut it also doesn't quantify exactly what you want to be doing..
00:46.03brlcadit's saying what you want the impact of whatever you do to be .. which a lot of people won't jive with or understand or care
00:46.21brlcadbut putting it in terms of what you actually want to do, makes a big difference
00:47.13``Erik<-- heavy in the classic thought in CS... looks back to the 60's and 70's and can't understand what the flying fuck happened
00:47.14brlcadI want to have brl-cad be the best open source solid modeling system, handling 2d and 3d, and with dozens of devs and massive community activity
00:47.35``Erikworking on brl-cad is an awfully nice angle and provides the framework to address serious problems
00:47.37brlcadbut from a "doing" perspective, I simply want to work on the code, make improvements, etc
00:47.48brlcadsure
00:48.04brlcadthis particular project can be spun to so many angles and interests.. :)
00:48.08``Erikbeing chewed out for working on brl-cad instead of attending a useless meeting is... yet one more burr to frustrate and anger.
00:49.03brlcadthat's where I think you're letting a distraction get to ya .. and understandably, but you have grounds to just not care if you keep the focus
00:49.36``ErikI'm already biased in a degree... last time I let her go unchecked, I spent 60% of my work life in meetings.
00:50.04``Erikso when she pushes the meeting thing AT ALL, i'm immediately in an extreme defensive posture
00:51.06``Erik(unfortunately, I think the lead pipe I beat her with to get out of the 60% meeting time issue was the catalyst for the TSP report)
00:51.19``ErikTPS report
00:51.22``Erikrather
00:51.41brlcadsee, my angle on that would have just been "look, i'm here to work on brl-cad -- that is my job and interest, listening to starks doesn't help me do my job any better so I didn't attend -- I have to manage my time effectively or I'd be in meetings all day every day."
00:52.02brlcadand if that position can't be defended on the technical reasons alone, then maybe they do have a point
00:52.03``Erikyeah, uh... didn't work for me.
00:52.25``Erikbut I didn't push it too awfully far *shrug*
00:54.15brlcadwell, was it an actual mandated requirement?
00:54.20``ErikI'd imagine she has a delusion that all gov't employees want to be a bc some day
00:54.27brlcadif it was, then there's higher ups that you should complain to
00:54.28``Erikno, it was noted that it was happening via email
00:54.36``Erikthat was it
00:54.52``Eriknothing said it was mandatory, or even expected... just that if you were interested, it was happening
00:55.05``Erikthe NEXT one is mandatory to gov't employees now, via her decree
00:55.30brlcadso it's not mandatory, you can safely stick to your morals/passion/whatever and manage your time how you see appropriate
00:55.59brlcadthat just makes you subversive
00:56.02``Erikif she denies it cuz I'd miss that meeting, I might talk to bob
00:56.05``Erikwell
00:56.17``Erikthe opm71 is because a friend is going to be in the area that week
00:56.19``Erikfrom missouri
00:56.28``Erikso, y'know, I wanna hang with her, not go to work
00:56.35brlcadyeah yeah, it's also an excuse and you know it else it would be irrelevant :)
00:57.01``Erikheh, actually, I'd already submitted and put it on my calendar, then I found out she was going to try to come out...
00:57.13brlcadif you professionally don't think it's worth your time, then you should say it
00:57.30brlcadand stick to it on those grounds, regardless of whatever other reasons you might have for also not going
01:13.06``Erikheh, and if I get shitcanned for that, are you gonna loan me a few grand to get back on my feet? :D
01:24.34``ErikI drive super slow.. in the ultrafast lane... ! D
01:24.39``Erikfun song
01:25.16TwingyI think I'm gonna repair the demon plane
01:25.21Twingyjust needs a new nose
01:25.38``Erik...
01:25.48``Erikand some anti-finger equipment.
01:25.52Twingyheh
01:25.55TwingyI'll mount the engine upright
01:25.59Twingyforget the cowling
01:26.08Twingythat plane wasn't designed for an OS46 upside down
01:26.11``ErikI doubt the inversion was the issue
01:26.14TwingyI don't care what they say
01:26.19Twingydude
01:26.25Twingythe thing was leaking fuel like an SR71
01:26.31``Erik<PROTECTED>
01:26.41Twingyoh yours, sure
01:26.56``Erikyeah, it spit gas like a mofo even when in a happy place
01:26.57Twingybut when you see the fuel dripping on the ground you got problems
01:26.59``Erikheh
01:27.14Twingyso it was either cut your finger off or go up in flames
01:27.28``Erikflame injurs slow
01:27.32Twingythat's why I love that plane
01:27.35TwingyI dunno
01:27.37Twingynitromethane
01:27.40Twingya little like napalm
01:27.54``Erikfast propogation, but reasonably low burn temperature
01:27.57Twingyyou get that crap on you and it's like you gotta scrape it off
01:28.01Twingyyea, low temp
01:28.16Twingyjust HIGHLY toxic fuems
01:28.20``Erikyeah, but hard suffocation is effective
01:28.28``Erikand in open air *shrug*
01:28.31Twingyafter you pass out you'll fall onto the propellar
01:28.41``Eriki doubt it's that fast
01:29.01``Erikhuman brains function an awfully long time without fresh exygen
01:29.04``Erikoxygen
01:29.10TwingyDemon-II
01:29.36TwingyI all I need is 2 servos
01:30.03TwingyI bought one of the buddy cables so I can interface my r/c controller to a pic chip
01:30.10``Erikif it's stupid and over-reactive, y'know, I'll bear the burden. that's cool with me.
01:30.10Twingy...and train the occaisonal noob
01:30.40``Erikheh
01:30.49``Erikmost newbs, the "passover" is good 'nuff
01:31.00Twingyyep
01:31.25Twingycause I'm lazy I'll interface mine with a PIC cheap and pass serial data back out
01:31.54Twingyhehe, I was stubborn and crashed my first plane and then knew how to fly
01:32.00Twingytwice
01:32.30``Erik:D do you have software that can compenstate for trees on either side of the landing strip and figure out a cut in and glide path?
01:33.21TwingyI stopped at hobby works in bel air today
01:33.29Twingythey have a decent amount of stuff
01:33.41TwingyI bet chuck would enjoy the trains
01:33.43``Erik<-- willing to be the 'newb' and learn from someone more knowlegeablae
01:33.45``Erikoh?
01:34.07``Erika little google work exposed an electronics store walking distance from me
01:34.08Twingyafter you pay for shipping from tower
01:34.09``Eriklike
01:34.14Twingythat store is still about 5% more expensive
01:34.17``Erikwalking distance fro ME
01:34.29``Erikwhich is hardly past the beer fridge
01:34.50Twingyso you can grab a sam adams and 555 timer in one trip
01:35.03``Erikhe
01:35.17``Erikthe electronics store is closer than the nearest package store
01:35.33Twingyafter I get my rocket motor built and working I'll try to make an entire plane on my cnc mill
01:35.35Twingyusing gcam
01:36.02``Erikput a blade on to cut balsa?
01:36.20Twingy1/8" endmill at 10k rpm @ 15 ipm will cut like butter
01:36.32Twingysingle pass
01:36.46``Eriknot gonna cut out die's to press? :D
01:36.55TwingyI will probably do fiberglass instead of monokote though
01:37.04Twingythey laser cut them at the factory
01:37.12``Erikif you intend to make more than a doze of a kit, making the blades to press might be worth it *shrug*
01:37.14Twingyfriend of mine build a 25W cnc laser cutter
01:37.19Twingythen moved to canada
01:37.38Twingylaser leaves a better finish
01:37.45``ErikI used to contemplate moving to canada.. but the news buzz lately isn't exactly appealing
01:38.07Twingyhe went there cause his wife needed surgery
01:38.11``Erikof course lasers are nice, but they might not bte 'right' for mass production
01:38.20``Erik<-- hopes he and his wife are doign well
01:38.26Twingyall the hobby vendors use laser cnc now for balsa
01:38.40``Erikhuh
01:38.54Twingyscan through tower, they all say laser cut balsa
01:38.55``ErikI guess the die cut his all history now :/
01:39.04Twingyyep
01:39.19Twingyno need to make new dies with laser cnc
01:39.33``Erikheh
01:39.36Twingyand it's not exactly like tower is selling 5,000 of every type of plane a day
01:39.42Twingythey probly sell one or two planes a day
01:43.01``Erikof course, with a mill and a side cutter, no need for dies at all, just account for the material cut away as dust...
01:43.01Twingymaybe 4 or 5 during summer
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01:56.29Twingyif they sprayed the entire wing with a fine mist of CA before coating that thing would be 3x stronger
02:03.48TwingyTotal Saved:  $66.90  Net Savings:  $-6133.1  Total kWh:  367  Oil Barrels:  0.74  Coal Tonnage:  0.18  Twinkies:  1584
02:07.19brlcadalmost a whole barrel, nifty
02:07.42brlcaddo you fluctuate your average against the actual price of crude oil for the day?
02:07.51brlcadthat would be sweet
02:08.06Twingythe conversion is joules of energy, not price
02:08.17brlcadah
02:08.35Twingyso it should be relatively close
02:08.51Twingyas in slightly higher
02:09.01brlcadquite a bit higher by the time you get to 100%
02:09.13brlcadbarrels peaked a high at $70
02:09.20brlcadthey're at something like 44 now
02:09.29Twingyby this 1 barrel will cost like $90 and a barrel right now costs $70 something I think
02:09.35Twingyk
02:09.53Twingygotta factor in bge's distribution charges and fixed rates
02:10.12brlcadand lobbying interests, ceo fees, etc
02:10.14Twingycosts them like 1.25 barrels in energy for every 1 barrel they deliver due to losses
02:10.37brlcadyeah.. "losses"
02:10.52Twingyeven at 700kV over transmission lines there is still considerable loss
02:11.01Twingyespecially once it hits the 480V ground transformers
02:11.12Twingyah
02:12.17TwingyI have a bunch of good ideas for anyone that wants to do a solid modeling based cam package using brlcad's libs
02:12.25IriX64brlcad: tcl8.5a?
02:12.57brlcadIriX64: question?
02:13.22IriX64brlcad: you guys are updating to tcl 8.5a soon?
02:13.40brlcadIriX64: that was the massive commit earlier today
02:13.56IriX64all ready done then thanks.
02:14.16louipcTwingy: that would be sweet
02:14.40TwingyI can tell you exactly how you would do it with brl-cad's architecture
02:15.18Twingywould require a custom interface and new intersection routines for some primitives, but otherwise stock
02:17.34brlcadwhat sort of new intersection routines?  to support g-code?
02:17.43IriX64brlcad: cvs browse shows libtcl8.3 and libtcl8.4 , no 8.5
02:17.47Twingyplane interection instead of ray intersection
02:17.59Twingyplane-tracing
02:17.59brlcadIriX64: you're looking in the old structure
02:18.08IriX64whup pardon me.
02:18.09brlcadTwingy: ahh
02:18.17brlcadIriX64: look in the src/other dir
02:18.31Twingybut I can tell you how to do the logistics of generating tool paths from the plane equations
02:18.53brlcadTwingy: I was thinking that you'd use CSG and intersect each layer with a thin RPP .. the rasterize the layer with ray-tracing
02:19.18Twingybrlcad, if you wanted to hot-wire it, same thing...
02:19.42Twingybut in terms of generating optimal pocketing code I know how to do that
02:19.53Twingyotherwise your part will take foreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever to finish
02:20.02brlcadwhat kind of equation result would you get intersecting a plane against something like a torus..
02:20.07Twingylrt vs. rayforce in terms of time
02:20.38Twingybrlcad, you limit yourself to arb8, tgc, sphere
02:20.43brlcadahh, hehe
02:20.48brlcadthat's cheating
02:20.49Twingyfor starters
02:20.54Twingyno...
02:21.03Twingythat's supports the native g-codes
02:21.11Twingyso you have optimal tool paths
02:21.18Twingywith implicit definitions
02:21.27Twingyother primitives become parametric
02:21.35Twingyand should be avoided at all cost
02:21.41brlcadthe tgc is a good example too .. you end up with soemthing really wonky with certain tgcs
02:22.12Twingyanyway, If some one gets a hankering to do it I got all the nitty gritty details worked out in my head
02:23.03brlcadheh
02:23.11Twingyafaik gcam is the most powerful open source cam package
02:23.23brlcadI'd like that too.. but I think the optimal approach is actually to complete the dual-rep brep support
02:23.35brlcadthen you'd actually have exact curves and connectivity for any slice
02:23.40Twingyyep
02:23.58Twingyjust like you can decompose a b-spline into beziers, and beziers into polynomials, and ultimately arcs
02:24.09brlcadit's coming along nicely actually, for the time being
02:24.24TwingyI want to have 3 modes
02:24.38Twingythe first mode, the one I have now, is doing cad with tool paths
02:24.50Twingythe second mode will be importing triangular brep geometries
02:24.53brlcadimplicit, explicit brep polygonal, explicit brep sline surface
02:25.00Twingythe third mode will be implicit csg support
02:25.35Twingyonce I put it on subversion I hope others will take care of the csg stuff
02:25.50Twingysince the interface and architecture are fairly mature now
02:25.58brlcadcsg brep splines is going to be a bitch
02:26.15TwingyI don't think it will be
02:26.30Twingythey decompose very nicely into arcs
02:26.46Twingyand the code to do it can be optimized quite a bit
02:26.50brlcadnot in 2D, but in 3D it's not exactly trivial
02:26.58TwingyI'm talking 3d
02:28.00Twingyyou're basically generating piecewise spherical patches
02:28.36Twingywith C2 continuity since it's quadratic
02:29.15Twingyalright, I need to finish repairing this wing
02:29.20Twingybbl
03:29.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: updated bundled blt to blt2.4z-patch-2
04:19.30IriX64``Erik, that file in incoming *should work on your cygwin setup if you use the included cygwin1.dll.
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07:49.39clock_brlcad: I have improved the Ronja model with a lot of little screws
07:49.43clock_Now I think it's complete
09:19.06clock_brlcad: screenshot for you http://images.twibright.com/tns/1f92.html
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12:08.00``Erikirix: I want to make it work without issues on cygwin... thus the recent commits.
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15:09.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix leftover from previous version separation, need to extract the numbers if we want to check them directly here. fixes unary operator expected errors.
15:24.28CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer need to replicate tcl's configure checks since we're using AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS so remove the dead sections
15:27.41CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/configure.in tk/unix/configure.in): heh, tcl/tk seem to indicate they need autoconf 2.59, which is newer than our present 2.52 minimum. there don't appear to be any post-2.52 macros in use, so reduce the AC_PREREQ.
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16:01.37lg_hi
16:02.00lg_I have a basic brlcad modeling question again...
16:04.16brlcadhowdy
16:04.54lg_is there any way to do some basic geometrical analysis on cgs-made shapes, such as finding intersection points etc?
16:04.59lg_hi brlcad!
16:05.47brlcadlg_: yes there are
16:06.09lg_at the moment i am doing everything on paper or in 2d cad and use the resulting coordinates to model in brlcad
16:06.13brlcadfor that particular one, nirt is the general tool
16:06.26lg_nirt?
16:06.53brlcadnirt fires a shotline from a given point in a given direction and reports the starting/ending hitpoints as well as thicknesses
16:07.14brlcadif you don't specify the start/dir, then it uses the viewing direction
16:07.58brlcadother analytic tools include "rtcheck" to determine if there are any overlaps, takes a grid size -s parameter (defaults to 50x50 or 512x512 depending on version)
16:08.15lg_say i have to spheres that intersect and i need the points where the intersection starts and ends as coordinates
16:08.18lg_two spheres
16:08.21lg_;-)
16:08.41brlcadanother is rtweight which when you've correctly modelled regions, and denote material properties and provide a density file, computes the weight/mass, volume, center of gravity, etc
16:09.40brlcadlg_: for that case, I'd shoot a ray from the center of sph1 to the center of sphere2
16:09.40brlcadthat should give you exactly the start and end
16:09.56lg_a
16:10.25brlcadthat one is actually so common that there's a script floating around that computes it all for you when you specify the two spheres
16:10.31brlcadbut I don't have it on hand atm
16:10.59brlcadi can look for it after the weekend more easily
16:11.53lg_is there any kind of howto for doing these kind of construction steps? in other cad's, one uses things like object snaps, but it makes brlcad really hard to start with when you do not know how to start
16:13.45brlcadlg_: alas, that's a lot of the introductory polish and user friendliness that hurts brl-cad .. most of the tricks of the trade are learned by turning to the expert modeler in the office next door who has done it 50 times and knows the fastest way
16:14.01brlcador you find out via the two week training courses in person
16:14.32lg_next door there is a primary school teacher living
16:14.58brlcadfrom a world-wide product perspective, we're only starting to acquire that sort of "self-help" stuff
16:15.01brlcadhehe
16:15.37brlcadthe irc channel, forums, and lists are a good start, but I agree there needs to be more self-guided instruction
16:17.14brlcadthat's actually one of the things that's hard to convey (and even describe) that gets lots in many users first impression of the package.. you *can* do most of the things one needs (presuming it relates to solid modeling) just finding out how to do it is generally expert knowledge shared by word of mouth
16:18.16brlcadsomething i'm definitely trying to address in the new interface, more self-describing tools and if anything just make it easier to discover what tools/commands/buttons do what and how to use them
16:18.18MaloeranBut fortunately, brlcad's voice can be heard throughout the universe for anyone who desires so
16:19.42MaloeranI think your patience is impressive really, especially with IriX, but...
16:20.44louipchow about a wiki?
16:23.36brlcadlouipc: already working on it
16:23.41brlcadthe whole website actually
16:23.55brlcadwhat's up there was just splash n' dash
16:24.10brlcadthere's another layout with all the bells and whistles coming together
16:24.22brlcadthis current release is actually all that's holding it back
16:27.26louipcawesome
16:30.30lg_getting curious
17:04.42CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: htester needs tcl and libm
17:06.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: non-mac tcl compiles against libdl, so add it as a dep in here (since we're static)
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20:33.59IriX64erf there's one in the win directory, allows a compile and link, but...
20:35.11IriX64won't run properly.
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23:49.25MaloeranWhat does the acronym "MTB" stands for? Google isn't helping
23:50.04MaloeranIf knowledge of the context could help, it comes from Mark
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070304

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070304

00:39.18*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050967.dsl.bell.ca)
00:41.08IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/380357   <---- mged no longer crashes on e all from terra.g
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01:16.49IriX64back.
01:16.52IriX64:)
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04:35.24brlcadIriX64: 7.8.4 nor cvs head use comments like you showed in the pastebin.. that brace belongs there else it's a syntax error to close it
05:22.11IriX64darn, thought i found something, ill keep looking.
05:23.34IriX64it's sorta like fishing, you know, sometimes you have to throw it back :)
05:44.16brlcader.. it's not missing from any of my sources
05:44.30brlcadmaybe you accidentally deleted it at some point
05:44.49IriX64could be, i shoot myself in the foot regularly :)
05:45.12brlcadwhy you'd be messing with that particular macro is curious (and semi-dangerous)
05:45.17IriX64but fact remains mines fixed.
05:45.39IriX64told you terra crashed mged now it doesn't.
05:45.41IriX64ty.
05:47.18brlcadyeah, I heard -- excellent
05:47.28brlcadyou applied the same patch, or updated your sources to cvs?
05:47.46IriX64i don't have cvs, i patched my code.
05:47.57IriX64err your code :)
05:48.03brlcadyour code
05:48.17brlcadit's open source
05:48.20brlcadit's your code too
05:48.26IriX64ty
05:49.06IriX64say is that tank car military property or can images of it be posted in public places?
05:50.16brlcadheh, if it's something you have .. then it's open sourced
05:50.31IriX64just want to be sure.
05:50.43brlcadI *think* all of the geometry files are BSD'd (and if not BSD'd then LGPLd)
05:50.49brlcadas are all the images
05:50.58IriX64good to know.
05:51.32brlcadwhich tank car anyways?
05:51.45brlcadtank_car.g?
05:51.48IriX64geometric solutions its in your examples.
05:51.53IriX64thats the one.
05:51.54brlcadahh, yes
05:54.16brlcadCOPYING says most of the geometry models are BSD licensed, so you can probably go with that unless the geometry file has data that says otherwise (which none do)
05:55.11IriX64thanks for clarifying, im not gonna distribute them, just put them up for friends to see whats possible  with BRL-CAD.
05:55.51IriX64should have looked in copying duh. :)
05:55.51brlcadalas the best cool stuff can't be put into db/
05:56.21IriX64like stryker? :)
05:56.26brlcaddamn national security interests and classification mumbo jumbo ;)
05:56.33IriX64heh
06:11.09brlcadIriX64: you'll need this next update
06:11.41CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_dsp.c: whoa that's a big typo. dsp_name is a struct bu_vls.. have to get the address to check/print it.
07:03.22``Erikheh
08:53.31*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-56.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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19:43.29IriX64www.spaces.live.com/IriX64     <==== I photon mapped a tank car :)
19:54.29brlcadthat actually looks better than I would have expected
19:55.08IriX64not too shaby is all i have to say, 20 minutes to complete.
19:55.55IriX64running benchmark right now, out of curiosity.
19:58.19IriX64not bad, 100% cpu usage user time, glitches to 20% kernal time.
20:03.55IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/381345    <--- if you're interested in a make benchmark here.
20:13.01``Erikbut, uh
20:13.01``Erikwhoa
20:13.05``Erik3 vgr's???
20:13.27``Erikwait, no, heh, 1234 vgr's
20:13.42IriX64wonky eh ? :)
20:13.51``Erikstill awfully slow
20:14.03IriX64ahh well tis a home puter after all.
20:14.19IriX64helps develop patience.:)
20:17.18IriX64heh maybe the numbers wrapped.
20:17.47``Erikunlikely
20:17.53IriX64true.
20:18.03``Erikbut from the results you posted, you forgot "--enable-optimized"
20:18.23IriX64debug is in there too.
20:18.26``Erikread lines 125-127
20:18.36``Erikthey tel you how to do it "right"
20:18.54IriX64just ran it out of curiousity, Im not trying to set a speed record here.
20:19.27``Erikthat's cool, but if you want to compare the vgr number to anything, you really need to run it "the right way"
20:20.01IriX64as i said...
20:20.16``Erikbut from my seat, even fi you scored a million vgr's, that's not hte part that impresses me
20:20.24IriX64not interested in a bigger one comparison :)
20:20.30``Erikthere are fugly-arsed winderz2k decorations on that window....
20:20.48``Eriknot exactly the most native of OS's :) that it ran at all is pretty impressive
20:21.16IriX64yeah well not all os's are created equeal.
20:21.24``Erikgiven my recent cygwin foibles, I may be begging y ou to write up a windows howto ;)
20:21.57IriX64hah press start->shutdown->turn computer off is your best bet ;)
20:22.22``Erikif you weren't talking about it, I wouldn't have even attmpted a cygwin build *shrug* but I am a frakin' portability whore, so I trek to the ugly often :)
20:23.03IriX64heh you need to replace gcc with one that wasn't created "specially" for cygwin.
20:23.34``Erik<-- has both a full cygwin and a full mingw path
20:24.10``ErikI made several sysV compablity commits on friday, if you didn't notice....
20:24.23IriX64uhh, no I didn't.
20:24.30``Erikand I intend to get it "working" on cygwin, then on mingw...
20:24.32``Erikand,y 'know
20:24.53``Erikmy boss who would argue against the effort... can go fuck herself.
20:24.55``Erik*cough*
20:25.19IriX64heh she'll fire you ``Erik :)
20:25.59``Erikyea, uh
20:26.04``Erikthese days
20:26.10``ErikI can find another job readily enough.
20:26.27IriX64she may "invite" you to.
20:26.47IriX64``Erik...
20:27.27IriX64i've been working with Cygwin, since Cgnus Solutions first unveiled it, you want a copy of the arvive I started with?
20:27.39IriX64archive too.
20:28.08IriX64Cygnus too.
20:30.13IriX64for instance you use a batfile to run bash, me i simply run login.
20:30.58IriX64which reminds me I've gotta fix my path..
20:31.55``Erikhrm, no? :)
20:32.08``ErikI've been using cygwin since, ummmm, '98?
20:32.18``Erikbut infrequently and with much pain
20:32.26``ErikI'm a *nix user by heart
20:34.15IriX64hah OS/2 is what I really like but alas...
20:34.50IriX64btw i really did get warp 4 up on vmware.
21:02.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: incrTcl prior to 3.3 apparently didn't provide ITK_VERSION, so accommodate. also quell warning about basename() taking non-const paths on linux.
21:10.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for the emmintrin.h header for g_brep's vector code; tcl needs libm on linux; bu/bn/rt are tied to tcl
21:11.37bjorkBSDwhat's so great about os/2, IriX64?
21:12.09IriX64brlcad: theres something funny about kern.argmax in configure.ac too.
21:12.39IriX64bjorkBSD: it runs my pm bbs :)
21:12.55bjorkBSDpm bbs?
21:13.06bjorkBSDsurely there's no one left on the bbs-verse is there?
21:13.28``Erikos/2 had its advantages... back in the day...
21:13.58bjorkBSDi thought os/2 was ms-windowslike...
21:14.28``Erikos/2 was a variant of MS-DOS that provided omfg real OS like facilities...
21:14.40``ErikI think w2k was enouhg to supercede it
21:15.07``Erikbear in mind, we're talkin' 1985 vs 2000...
21:15.56``Erikibm and ms worked on a joint project, got pissed at eachother and went their seperate ways... it took ms 15 yrs to hit the same quality metric as ibm
21:16.43bjorkBSDibm is a much larger company.
21:16.59bjorkBSDbut it's remarkable that they entrusted their early efforts to a start up...
21:17.05``Erikdepends on how you quntify it
21:17.22``ErikI mean, these days, msft as almost 3x the market cap
21:18.05*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:18.17brlcadIriX64: there is no kern.argmax in configure.ac
21:20.37bjorkBSDand who still uses BBSes?
21:23.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: apparently some linux systems don't have emmintrin.h
21:24.03``Erikexpecially ones that aren't running on x86 procs
21:24.27CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: common.h comes before all system headers. wasn't able to find an alternative (though I didn't look really hard) for emmintrin.h, so if the header doesn't exist don't do the x86 vector foo.
21:25.35idaythe weird thing is that SSE2 and GNUC must be defined - so it's likely a gcc issue
21:25.55idaywell - maybe not
21:25.58brlcadthey were both defined
21:26.11brlcadyet not that header
21:26.12idaytrying to remember where emmintrin.h is located
21:26.23idaythought it was in gcc dir, but maybe not
21:26.53idayon the mac it is...
21:27.12brlcadtry a build on either of the linux server twins
21:27.47iday"twins" ?
21:27.53brlcadon/off
21:28.00idayI'm not saying I don't believe you
21:28.08idayi just looked for the file on the server twins
21:28.18idayit's not there... but it's a gcc issue i say!
21:28.35idayon every system that has it - it's in a gcc directory
21:28.35brlcadlooks like it might be a gcc 4 thing
21:28.40idayno
21:28.45idayerg has gcc 3.x
21:29.38iday"/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/3.4.3/include/emmintrin.h"
21:30.11iday"/usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin8/4.0.1/include/emmintrin.h"
21:30.21idayargh
21:31.25idaybut it *could* be a gcc version issue
21:32.13idaydoesn't change the check though: no emmintrin, no sse2. at least not without gcc builtins
21:32.14IriX64brlcad search for kern, its in the bsd stuff.
21:32.29brlcadalmost guaranteed to be a version issue.. it's not a partial gcc install
21:32.45brlcadIriX64: I searched for kern, there is no reference to kern in configure.ac
21:33.03brlcad*configure.AC* .. maybe you're looking at configure
21:33.16IriX64err sorry quite right.
21:33.18brlcadiday: there is mmintrin.h and xmmintrin.h that apparently preceeded it
21:33.27brlcadhttp://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/gcc/gcc/config/i386/emmintrin.h?rev=1.18&root=gcc&view=log
21:33.44brlcadonly been around since 2003, gcc 3 predates that by quite a bit iirc
21:34.54idayxmm is sse, mm is mmx, emm is sse2
21:34.58brlcadlooks like it was added circa 3.3
21:35.24idaythat would probably be about right - pIVs were the first with sse2 i think
21:35.44idaycourse - the intrinsics were most likely added later still
21:35.53iday(everyone used asm before that)
21:35.55brlcadon/off have gcc 3.2.3
21:36.04idayyah
21:36.11idayfunny that on/off define SSE2
21:36.20idaybut gcc may have the builtins, but not the intrinsics
21:37.06brlcadpretty sure the hardware supports it, probably one of the earliest impl's
21:37.17brlcadbeing xeon and all
21:38.19brlcadeither way, just needed a lil extra so it doesn't fail compile.. don't really care if something that old actually uses it or not myself ;)
21:47.58idayyeah - i don't care either - just procrastinating on my homework
21:48.52idaysorry 'bout the bug though - what can I say - I'm a Crappy Coder ®
22:18.26IriX64brlcad: sorry bout that.
22:21.44IriX64+it.
22:24.31IriX64here's an idea, transparent task bar for windows xppro;)
22:25.55IriX64" I don't know, but I been told, if you serve you'll never grow old";)
22:35.56IriX64would it be so hard to put a ls command in mged?
22:46.43*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
22:55.45``Erikmged has a ls command...
23:01.06CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: interesting this worked before.. need tcl.h before tclInt.h
23:03.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: linux needs libxss too for tk
23:04.10brlcadif you want a shell ls, "exec ls" in mged, else it's a listing of geometry
23:09.04IriX64ty
23:10.05IriX64works, thanks. you could have said see the docs :)
23:21.38``Erikhehehehe "rtfm"? :D
23:38.27CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: tclcad needs to come before the others so it can resolve tk/Xss symbols
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070305

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070305

00:25.23IriX64``Erik rtfkm = read the finest kind manual :)
00:28.04IriX64you think your basement technology is slow... I wound up with 481.80 rays/sec (wallclock) on this last shot. :)
00:31.53``Erikmy basement gear is very old and slow.
00:32.24``ErikI mean. 850mhz athlon with 384m ram is hardly a scream machine
00:33.56IriX64whole lotta commands in mged.
00:35.33IriX64dir
00:36.09IriX64sorry... creepy child that I am. :)
00:41.52brlcad``Erik: that can't be the slowest you still have?
00:44.00Twingydemon plane is 50% restored
00:44.12brlcadi think my slowest is an old full tower 486 66Mhz
00:44.53brlcadwith a working 5.25" *and the glorious "turbo" button
00:45.14Twingywere you one of the cool kids that changed it to say "Hi" and "Lo"
00:45.30TwingyI remember spending like 3 hours one evening figuring out the jumpers to put custom message
00:45.31brlcadheh, no .. not that "cool"
00:45.58brlcadthere is no message actually, it's a custom case, the button is unlabeled
00:46.06brlcadjust clicks
00:52.16CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/.cvsignore: ignore the generated files
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03:12.24CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/Makefile.am:
03:12.24CIA-7BRL-CAD: even if linking against a system tcl, incrtcl needs access to tcl's private
03:12.24CIA-7BRL-CAD: headers in order to compile (tclInt.h in particular). this fixes compilation
03:12.24CIA-7BRL-CAD: error reported in sf bug 1672166 (Build attempts to use non-public Tcl header,
03:12.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: reported by Andrew P. Lentvorski, Jr. - bsder).
03:40.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/Makefile.am: one per line cppflags
03:40.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/generic/Makefile.am:
03:40.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: even if linking against a system tcl, incrtk needs access to tcl's private
03:40.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: headers in order to compile (tclInt.h in particular). this fixes compilation
03:40.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: error reported in sf bug 1672166 (Build attempts to use non-public Tcl header,
03:40.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: reported by Andrew P. Lentvorski, Jr. - bsder).
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04:15.00Twingyabout 90 minutes worth of work left on the demon plane before it can fly again
04:15.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/configure tk/unix/configure): recursive autogen.sh/autoreconf works with ac_config_subdirs, so configure is properly regenerated. don't need/want it in cvs since it's repeatedly updated.
04:17.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: typo, missing trailing slash
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05:28.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
05:28.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: improve the version number processing so that older oddities like automake
05:28.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 1.4-p6 are better parsed and compared as that the old version doesn't sneak in
05:28.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: as 1.46 but as 1.4.6 instead. add a verbose debug line so it's more obvious
05:28.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: what's being compared.
05:34.13PrezKennedycrazy programmers working late nights
05:35.58brlcadhowdy señor kennedy
05:36.12brlcadit's not late
05:39.18PrezKennedynot terribly late... but wouldnt catch me doing IT stuff at this hour unless the building was on fire
05:39.20PrezKennedy:-)
05:40.48*** join/#brlcad cad95 (n=48b9fdc9@bz.bzflag.bz)
05:47.24cad95hey, man, I just installed brlcad and it works great, but i have a common question...
05:51.45brlcadhopefully someone will have a common answer ;)
05:52.17brlcadPrezKennedy: if the building was on fire, I think that's one of the few times you *wouldn't* catch me doing IT stuff
05:53.08PrezKennedyhaha IT as in "I Take" stuff
05:53.11cad95can I script an animation without compiling a c program?
05:54.22brlcadcad95: yes, it's a bit arduous, but doable
05:54.32cad95ok
05:55.15brlcadthere are at least two animation tutorials, a more extensive one on the website in report format and a shorter one that was posted to the brlcad-users mailing list several months back
05:55.40brlcadthey have different approaches/complexities, depending on what exactly you need
05:56.18brlcadbut basically they both hinge around either capturing keyframes in mged, and/or rendering frames with one of the raytracers
05:57.29cad95that is what I need
05:57.29cad95thank you
05:57.31brlcadclock (one of the guys usually in here but not at the moment) recently made some nifty animations of a model he made that he posted to http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php
05:58.52brlcadone of the more common simple scripting approaches is to use rt with the -a -e options (for azimuth and elevation), rendering to files from a script and then compositing them with your favorite movie encoder
05:59.34brlcador saving keyframes in mged using various commands like aet, saveview, size, etc
06:00.46brlcadif you need to go the mged route (because it overs considerable more control over the view manipulation), it's often useful to note that you can run any single mged command from a shell script like: mged -c file.g some_object some_command
06:00.55cad95i'll probly go with the composite approach
06:01.45cad95that command sounds useful though
06:01.45brlcadoops, typo .. mged -c file.g some_command
06:01.50brlcadyou don't specify an object
06:01.58brlcade.g. mged -c file.g tops
06:02.06brlcadmged -c file.g ls some_object
06:04.00brlcadfor object in `mged -c db.g ls` ; do rt -o file${object}.pix db.g $object ; pix-png file${object}.pix > file${object}.png ; rm -f file${object}.pix ; done
06:04.38brlcadjust another example using mged and rt together.. renders every single object in the database to a png file
06:04.55brlcadnot very practical or useful, of course, but gives you the idea hopefully
06:05.22cad95ya, sure
06:06.14cad95i'm not used to the varables but i can manage directing a file with a list
06:08.39brlcadyou can also do that exact same operation entirely in mged given mged's command line is a full tcl shell
06:10.16cad95should i worry about classified information on the web reguarding brlcad?\
06:11.23MaloeranIf it's on the web, I don't think it's classified ;)
06:12.28cad95i'm just asking because the first thing i ran into on the mailing list was a title that said unclassified in all upercase
06:12.43cad95i don't know what that's about but it kind of made me think
06:22.51*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
06:42.59brlcadapparently less than a week
06:45.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix/ (Makefile.in configure.in): tcl/tk doesn't use automake so have to encourage 'make all' to work under IRIX make
07:08.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: save problem as earlier, need to find private tcl/tk headers even if linking against system that doesn't have them installed
07:24.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclInt.h: include common.h so that we avoid tcl's compat headers (this wouldn't be an issue if we let incrtcl run it's configure)
07:28.59CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/Makefile.am: itk needs access to tcl/tk private headers (time to consider moving this to ITK_CPPFLAGS)
07:30.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (main.c tcl.c): remove the #include of the private tclInt.h header .. "shouldn't" need it
07:32.09brlcadso there obviously are still some issues, but it's starting to come together finally
07:33.09brlcadhave mac and linux successfully compiling and testing now
07:33.58brlcadnow working on irix and bsd (which might be done, all good so far) .. and once those two are passing...
07:39.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: hm, should be the last one that uses itk and needs to be able to find the internal headers
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17:46.54IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/382469   <==== your code behaving itself ;)
17:48.38IriX64brlcad: thanks for the fixed g_dsp.c, mged no longer crashes.
17:50.24IriX64terra.g is.... unique, should keep it around for testing things like that.
18:14.08IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/382497   <=== my code behaving itself.
18:21.17IriX64a 44k hello world program, ouch :)
18:47.38IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/382536   <=== your fix is good, thats terra.g opening up and it even displays it on the graphics screen brlcad.
19:13.19IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/382563  <===    rt too see.
19:26.33IriX64Gemetric solutions properly credited for their Tankcar now.
19:26.40IriX64Geometric too.
19:26.49IriX64on my space i mean.
19:27.17IriX64should i include the phone number as in the title of the drawing?
20:08.35*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-63-117.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:53.33*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.178.78)
22:05.11brlcadno, the phone number is now defunct
22:05.16brlcad(and should be removed.. hm)
22:06.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/tank_car.asc: remove the old antiquated/obsolete/defunct GSI phone number.
22:20.19CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: don't use TclFormatInt() so we can avoid using the private tclInt.h header. the routine is just a macro wrapper around sprintf anyways.
22:23.43brlcad"not matching up" means what?
22:24.28brlcadit could have to be the two fixes from last night to get things working with irix make, but I've gotten a pass on bsd since
22:24.40brlcadmaybe something since then
22:33.24``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/37754
22:53.22brlcad``Erik: bizarre failure, but doesn't look like anything cad's doing wrong .. if anything sounds like cruft from a previous build confusing autoconf, probably due to the configure.in update in src/other/tcl/unix
23:15.39``ErikFound GNU Autoconf version 2.59
23:15.39``ErikFound GNU Automake version 1.9.6
23:15.39``ErikFound GNU Libtool version 1.5.22
23:15.57``Erikthis is on a quad opteron running fbsd... doing an out of dir build
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070306

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070306

00:05.48``Erikheh, nice...
00:05.49``ErikWorking on someone else code is something many application programmers realy suck at. Also they think using the latest cool tricks that just came out in the latest language spec or the new compiler supports it so it's really Cool. F*ck them! These guys need to be slapped up side the head a few times.
00:05.54``Erikhttp://www.unixprogram.com/churchofbsd/
00:11.49``ErikMoving to Linux is like getting poked in the eye with a stick.  It hurts and I can't see where I am going.
00:11.50``Erikhehehe
00:19.11``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6P0hhoLTak ...
01:47.58TwingyNARF = Not Almost Ready to Fly
01:49.17louipcHe's a damned good guitarist though
02:13.00``Erikjust a little odd
03:24.42*** join/#brlcad Doubtttt (i=Me@201009037033.user.veloxzone.com.br)
03:24.53Doubtttt6,15hi
03:25.04Doubtttt6,15anyone can help me?
03:26.24Doubtttthey
03:26.35Doubtttt6,15jack SWPadnos Twingy louipc Maloeran deltazap dtidrow_work CIA-7 b0ef @brlcad ``Erik archivist ibot
03:28.40louipcehlo
03:42.15louipcgreetings
04:13.40brlcadthat was rather annoying
04:21.10louipccolours?
04:34.07brlcadmebbie
04:56.41deltazapthat was rather random as well
05:02.24louipcactually she /msgd me, so I answered her that way
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13:39.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c:
13:39.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: Additional mutex protection for sessions. open_session now always returns session #0. This will work until we start using dynamic geometry. At
13:39.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: that point a better session managment scheme will be required to insure that sessions with dynamic geometry get associated with the correct users.
14:46.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 11 dirs): include SYSV where needed (cygwin)
16:19.02CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/vector_x86.h: remove "extra qualifications" that g++4 complains about (still works on g++3)
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17:37.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/iwidgets.tcl.in: use the iwidgets version, not the BRL-CAD version
17:49.17*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:49.17*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
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20:03.45IriX64would dearly love to see rise but..
20:04.06IriX64till i get sdl installed properly sigh.
20:30.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: IRIX provides basename/dirname in the libgen library. checking for the header requires -lgen as a LIBS, so add custom checks for dirname/basename functionality
20:32.13brlcadIriX64: no, they should be ==
20:32.21brlcadsame goes for {}'s
20:33.00brlcadif there were syntactic problems like those in bu.h, things would be failing compilation miserably all over the place
20:33.52brlcadyou're not likely going to find syntax bugs in that file .. your run-time issues are logic issue elsewhere in the code
20:34.15IriX64ty i'll keep looking.
20:35.20IriX64any ideas on how to get sdl installed on *my system :)
20:36.01CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/dirname.c: ws
20:47.32CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/basename.c: add an initial stub at a bu_basename() to complement bu_dirname() for portable path processing.
20:48.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_basename, make note to make dirname return something const
20:49.35CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: set magic for new points in a metaball cloud
20:49.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add basename.c to the build
20:49.44``Erikirix: go to libsdl.org, find the appropriate binary bundles (mingw32 or cygwin), and follow the associated instructions very carefully
20:50.03``Erikheh, looking to undo all my sysv link crap?
20:55.30IriX64was just browsing man, nothing serious :)
21:03.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): map the 'fast' target to 'all-am' to allow 'fast' build to succeed without twisting up tcl and tk too much
21:05.48CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use bu_basename() instead of basename() to encapsulate the portability. don't need libgen.h header any more.
21:17.16CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-var.c: fix header confusion
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21:21.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (isst/master/compnet.c libtexture/texture_image.c): add missing headers
22:11.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/sysv.h:
22:11.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: there's a bu_basename to match the bu_dirname now, so sysv compat can go away
22:11.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: (though I'm not sure basename() was part of sysv api?) .. the function signature
22:11.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: was also causing an irix build failure due to incompatible constness.
22:16.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (db_tree.c tree.c): bu_basename replaces rt_basename, ws updates
22:16.59CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/Makefile.am: remove basename.c from libsysv
22:19.32CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h src/librt/tree.c): remove rt_basename. its functionality was merged into libbu as bu_basename.
22:23.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/if.c: use bu_basename instead of basename, no longer need libgen.h
22:23.15CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/Makefile.am: need libbu
22:24.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/libsysv.dsp: no longer compile basename.c
22:27.16CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/basename.c: no longer need basename.c, replaced by libbu functionality as bu_basename() in src/libbu/basename.c
22:28.32CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: use bu_basename(), no longer need libgen.h
22:30.16CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add basename.c to the windows build system
23:00.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): make sure the generated build files are either ignored or deleted
23:03.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c setup.c): should no longer need the tcl-private tclInt.h header... (definitely needs more testing, but progress towards NOT using it)
23:34.14brlcadwelp, that only leaves the massive reworking of LIBS ...
23:40.09IriX64you've been busy :)
23:41.54IriX64well it says adrt support this time, lets see.
23:57.29IriX64brlcad: i'm a little unsure i should be using the formal submit bug thing, simply because my system is "strange".
23:59.09IriX64May I trust the channel to tell me if its a valid problem?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070307

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070307

00:26.25IriX64i'll simply pastebin the symptoms, and if anybody has time, can you comment?
01:07.26IriX64is opengl support new tobrlcad as of 7.8.4? or has it always been there and im missing it?
02:02.07IriX64do these tools such as rtedge have a help screen i tried both --help and -h.
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05:36.08brlcadIriX64: yes, please report the bug in here first .. you should generally only submit formal bug reports for non-custom configurations problems, and preferably issues that are perfectly repeatable
05:36.33brlcadmention the issue in here first.. I'll let you know when/if you should submit a more formal report
05:37.55brlcadthat will generally only be something that I'm fairly confident is a prevalent problem .. like mged crashing on certain inputs .. but NOT build problems -- build problems are rarely bug-report-worthy as they're usually configuration issues or temporary
05:39.57brlcadopengl support has been there for over a decade, whether it's compiled in or not depends on how we feel come release-time (I usually try to disable opengl if I can remember to due to a bug on some platforms) .. again.. it provides no NEW functionality -- it's just a different low-level implementation, one of many that all do the same thing -- don't get caught up on the familiar name
05:40.52brlcadhelp is provided via manual pages, rarely ever -h --help options .. try "brlman rtedge"
06:01.02IriX64ty understood.
06:01.40IriX64found help after i opened the database... manual.
06:06.34IriX64louipc: Did you ever use OS/2, I quite liked it when I ran it many years ago.
06:07.08IriX64cept for the runaway swap file thing :)
06:09.30IriX64visit www.spaces.live.com/IriX64  there a picture of it running there.
06:19.53IriX64That virtual disk is formmated hpfs.
08:19.45*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:53.39clock_brlcad: is it OK to define a region as (combination - region)?
08:53.56clock_For example I have a wall and bolts so I define wall as bricks.c - bolts.r
08:54.08clock_I mean define wall.r as bricks.c - bolts.r
08:54.13clock_like there are holes drilled for the bolts
11:12.09louipcIriX64: nope never used it
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13:11.00CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 6 dirs): TCL was moved to src/other/tcl: include path modified
13:18.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: bu_basename returns a const: variable type fixed (compiler warning)
14:23.18brlcadhello rossberg
14:23.50brlcadclock_: it can be frowned upon, but no -- it's fine to use a region negatively
14:24.06brlcadit'd be an error to use it positiviely below another region
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14:33.11brlcadrossberg: interesting inclusion of strlcpy() .. without a doubt wasn't an old System V routine (but as good a place as any to put it), but a curious routine in itself
14:33.35rossbergbrlcad: can you compile the current librt/g_brep.cpp?
14:34.15rossbergbrlcad: strlcpy can be removed, right?
14:34.33brlcadhm, removed?
14:35.13brlcadrossberg: I can, depends on the platform -- currently know that g_brep fails on irix due to the -msse -msse2 flags but I've got a local fix for that
14:35.40brlcadbut it does compile on linux and os x as far as I know at the moment
14:35.55brlcadi had problems compiling it under windows, but hadn't looked into the errors yet
14:37.15brlcadit was easy enough to disable by hand at the time, which was suitable at the time as it's still evolving code
14:37.50brlcadI don't really care if strlcpy stays or is removed.. but I thought you added it?
14:39.51rossbergyes I add it, thats why I'm asking
14:42.09rossbergvector.h, line 42 (the one with friend) looks strange
14:44.50brlcadrossberg: oh, I didn't comment implying to remove strlcpy -- it's fine .. it's just an 'interesting' function is all .. I hadn't seen it in a while
14:45.35rossbergbrlcad: however, strlcpy isn't in use any more
14:45.56brlcadwhich would explain why I haven't seen it in a while :)
14:46.20brlcadiirc, openbsd folks wrote it as a strncpy replacement or somesuch
14:46.34``Erikbrlcad: the dmg of qemu I was talking about yesterday, http://www.kju-app.org/kju/
14:55.12brlcadimpressive
14:55.18brlcadiconic hell, but impressive
14:55.48``Erikapple+, and fix the top display
14:56.13brlcadBe still fails to detect the cdrom to install.. but I see I have other hardware options to test too
15:02.28brlcaddrat, the other PPC hardwares won't even boot from the CD
15:04.32brlcadpretty painless to use though, I like (aside from iconage)
15:05.43``ErikI haven't figured out clean ways to interface its disk image format, though, I'm not sure if it's a raw disk image or if there's a header or what :/
15:06.23``Erikbut I only looked for a second *shrug* :)
15:07.30brlcadi don't really care what they do so long as it's easy to get data in/out somehow
15:07.48brlcadthe import from virtual pc is interesting
15:08.04brlcadi could use that to import my old images ..
15:09.59``Erik<-- has script fu to generate raw disk images for his os, not terribly keen on rewriting all that
16:14.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/fast4-g.c: (log message trimmed)
16:14.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: massive restructuring of the code. functions are defined in visibility order so
16:14.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: declarations are unnecessary, functions are made static so they don't collide
16:14.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: with librt's similar (but not identical) importFg4Section.c symbols
16:14.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: (Add_bot_face, do_trid, do_quad, and do_tri functions; grid_pts variable),
16:14.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: rename aforementioned and others with an f4_ prefix just to entirely avoid the
16:14.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: naming confusion, reorder macros, defines, static vars, and functions into
16:19.08brlcader always attempt to build g_brep.c
16:57.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: have configure check for the -msee and -msse2 gcc options, provide them together as SSE to the makefiles
17:37.28brlcadIriX64: that was fixed in cvs .. and you should probably message me in here if you want me to notice
17:37.35brlcadunless it's a private matter
17:39.11IriX64where in cvs brlcad?
17:39.41brlcadhttp://sf.net/projects/brlcad
17:39.45IriX64im in rise observer i dont see it.
17:39.48brlcadselect the 'code' tab
17:40.11brlcadyep, that's a known problem with the source release
17:40.19brlcadwas fixed about six months ago
17:40.32IriX64ty ill get it from rise slave.
17:41.20brlcadthere isn't a splash.h in rise slave
17:41.30IriX64then where?
17:41.36brlcad...
17:41.38brlcadit's in cvs
17:41.51brlcadit's ONLY in cvs at the moment at least until the next release
17:42.11brlcaddon't fear the cvs .. it's not that hard to work with
17:42.15IriX64hah goof that i am im in the wrong place :)
17:45.53IriX64btw any guesstimate as to how soon you'll release 7-10?
17:50.22brlcadhopefully within a few days
17:51.57brlcadwhen someone keeps asking questions about a header and posts urls to frivolous pastebins, that slows things down :P
17:52.17IriX64heh ``Erik stop doing that ;)
17:53.43IriX64wouldn't it be nice if this worked -- CFLAGS='-Wl,-Ai386,-OS=freebsd' ./configure ;)
17:55.27IriX64it would produce messages such ass gcc -Ai386 linker file not used because linking not done.
17:57.16IriX64err input file.
17:58.04brlcadyes, such ass
18:02.07IriX64the whole project:)
18:02.54brlcadsmells like teen spirit
18:04.08IriX64rosewate and honey :)
18:04.13IriX64rosewater too
18:10.00IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/385183    <--- im a slow typist but i envision something like this.
18:10.30brlcadI really don't see what the point of that is?
18:10.41IriX64cross compiling.
18:10.43brlcadthose are just error messages
18:10.57IriX64warnings.
18:11.31brlcadright .. but still a "mistake" nonethelss
18:11.34IriX64on the link pass there would be no such warning.
18:11.43brlcadyou're specifying linker flags to the compiler
18:11.51brlcadwhen they should just be specified to the linker
18:11.56IriX64passing them on to the linker.
18:12.09brlcadmake them LDFLAGS instead
18:12.18IriX64can use either.
18:12.40brlcadyou "can", but one is erroneous.. hence all the 'warnings'
18:12.50IriX64errr true.
18:13.02IriX64but the point is gcc doen't crash.
18:13.15IriX64have to support -Wl
18:14.48brlcada lot of things don't crash gcc .. that was the point?
18:15.04IriX64compatibility.
18:15.20IriX64so you can take anybodys project and go.
18:15.39brlcadgo where?
18:16.16IriX64hopefully what you're trying to compile and link for :)
18:16.46brlcadwhy not just compile and link there?
18:17.31IriX64its fraught ;)
19:13.43IriX64fraught with danger... there's just no arguing with a word like fraught... go see the movie. :)
19:14.05IriX64pooh's heffalump movie.
19:17.11IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/385269        issues remain sigh.
19:19.53``Erikuhhhh, yeah, uh, that'd be expected
19:20.11``Erikif you run "file.o", it'll tell you it's a PE file
19:20.14``Eriker
19:20.18``Erik"file pret.o"
19:20.34``Erikjust because you ASK it to compile another format does NOT make it a cross-compiler or cross-linker
19:20.58IriX64man pret.o is an object file cannot run it.
19:21.08``Erikuh huh... but it's a PE object file
19:21.11``Eriknot an ELF object file
19:21.25``Erikyou have the command "file.exe", right? seriously, use it... a lot...
19:21.36IriX64ty
19:23.27IriX64the entry point of any executable examines system you're running on and says " i am an OS/2 pm app" for instance.
19:24.04IriX64but it will *always run on *my system.
19:24.16IriX64because i like to test the code too.
19:24.26IriX64meaning the project i compiled.
19:24.40IriX64_main __main.
19:24.56IriX64my pret.exe is 44k.
19:25.13IriX64and its just a hello world program.
19:25.36``Erikactually, the system examines the first couple of bytes of an application you ask to run (the "file magic", what file.exe shows you a human version), if it's something the kernel binfmt stuff groks, it'll extract the entry point.
19:26.06IriX64so its doable?
19:26.08``Erik"main" means nothing to PE, ELF, QMAGIC, MZ, ... it's actually a stub for libc to cope with
19:26.09``Erikno
19:26.33``Erikbecause the second you try to bind a library or make a system call, it'll be confused.
19:27.08IriX64how there are effectivly 2 exe's in there.
19:27.30``Eriktake, for example, printing something at a kernel level... using the write(2) function (syscall)... on your machine, you'll move things into registers, then call interrupt 0x80
19:27.54IriX64interrupt 80?
19:27.56``Eriksorry, interrupt 0x21... windows/dos uses int 0x21
19:28.06``Eriklinux will move things into registers and call interrupt 0x80
19:28.19``Erikx86 bsd will move things onto the stack and call interrupt 0x80
19:28.26``Erikthey all talk very differently
19:28.27IriX64the linux code is part of the file ``Erik, itll be right.
19:29.03IriX64windows+linux you run the one for *target system unless running on mine.
19:29.19IriX64i screwed up and put my machine first.
19:29.33IriX64should have put target first but ...
19:30.20``Erikunless your kernel binary format reader understands the format your file is, it should just stop and say "I don't know this". If it DOES know what format it is, it can either ATTEMPT to work with it, or say it isn't doable.
19:30.37IriX64agreed.
19:30.39``Erikif I try to run a mac ELF binary on my x86 fbsd machine, it'll say "wrong ISA, go away"
19:30.52``Erikif I try to run my fbsd ELF binary on my windows machinee, it'll say "uh? not even gonna try"
19:30.55``Erikand visa versa
19:31.43IriX64well if you get some of my stuff, let me know if it says cannot execute binary file :)
19:31.49*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:32.14``Erikyou can see it for yourself... use the "file.exe" program to tell you what your file is
19:32.37IriX64but if systems play by the rules, I still maintain its doable
19:32.49``Erikon my 'workhorse' machine, file tells me this: mged: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
19:33.12``Erikand my desktop says: mged: Mach-O executable ppc
19:33.33IriX64the object file is a MS Windows COFF intel 80386 object file.
19:35.17``Erikok, so it's a COFF/PE x86 windows binary... the only systems I know of that will use those files are: windows, the "wine" abi translator, and uhhh, what's the name of it... skyos?
19:35.38``ErikOS/2 used a COFF variant, but was 16b only, I think :/
19:36.03``Eriknot skyos, reactos, my bad
19:36.24``Erikhttp://www.reactos.org/en/index.html
19:37.52IriX64gonna go hunt up *your file command, mine sucks... bbiab.
19:40.52``Erik$ file.exe /bin/ls.exe
19:40.54``Erik/bin/ls.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable not relocatable
19:51.26brlcadyou'd think after doing this for the third or fourth time over the years, woulda scripted something better by now
19:53.12brlcad10 change libadd  20 change configure.ac  30 compile  40 change ldadd  50 observe error  60 goto 30 400 times
19:53.44``Erikyou'da thunk
19:53.45``Erikt
19:53.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): include makefile defs, for "depends" target
19:55.18``Erikall praise buckethead!!!
19:55.18brlcadack
19:55.28brlcadif you include makefile defs, it'll recurse into unix dir and fail build on a make fast
19:55.49``Erikeck
19:55.56brlcadthat's why those stub rules are there, to halt the recursion
19:56.41*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p5487747A.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:57.22``Erikbett4r?
19:57.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): change depends to depend on all-am to avoid recursive issue
19:58.22brlcadshould do the trick
19:59.10brlcadyay, finally on proc-db .. almost done
20:02.18brlcadwhat sucks nuts is that will probably want/need to do this all over again down the road.. the whole library listing woes stem from having some platforms needing libs to decl and others not wanting .. keeping track at link time that librt implies needing RT, BN, BU, and SYSV on the ldadd for example
20:03.08brlcad*always* .. so you either put that in the lib as a libadd (which now causes woes with static libs and tcl/tk since they're static) or you list during ldadd
20:03.57brlcadanyhow.. this will probably work just fine for now until we hit platform that requires the libs to be decl'd (aix I think)
20:04.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: change dependancy to libfb, SHOULD snarf in tcl if necessary via libbu
20:04.17``Erikhrmph
20:07.00brlcadwith the new layout, that won't necessarily be true any longer -- basically condensing the libadd's down to nothing and pushing the decl's to the link line
20:08.12brlcade.g. in my version here, libtclcad is only got tclstub left and that would have to be pushed down if anything needed to actually use the stubs interface in app code
20:24.18CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (proc-db/apply-mdb.c lgt/apply-mdb.c): apply-mdb.c is not a procedural database, doesn't belong in proc_db. moved from src/proc_db to src/lgt/.
20:24.54brlcadgoing to be broken for a couple minutes for that last commit, the makefiles contain too many other changes
20:38.37CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/apply-mdb.c: on second thought, just declare the code obsolete. mat_Open_Db() and friends are nowhere to be found, not worth the effort to find for this simple snippet.
21:18.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/nmgxplode.c: all the rukus about nmgxplode not compiling .. yet the program doesn't do a damn thing. looks like the start of something that was never even fully started. delete the damn turd.
21:22.47``Erikheh
21:47.42MaloeranAhah, neat
22:02.49brlcadcheese?
22:02.58CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: reorder things in the record to keep like types together (breaks binary compatability with previous metaball primitives)
22:03.17``Eriksomething like that
22:13.33``Eriknow that's interesting
22:28.31*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:29.53``Erikheh, I've never seen programs die from x=malloc(100);x[0]=0;free(x); (while working fine everywhere else)
22:33.54``Erikahhhhhh, suddenly a lot more makes sense. heh. edsol is one skeery beast
22:34.56brlcad``Erik: fyi, bu_malloc and friends are guaranteed to never return NULL so you never have to error check the condition
22:37.49Maloeran``Erik, under what circumstances?
22:38.37MaloeranThe memory returned by malloc() will always be valid. If Linux really is out of memory, it will kill processes, perhaps yours, but the memory will still be valid
22:42.40brlcadMaloeran: that's a rather unrelated statement regarding malloc() .. and behavior specific to linux, not posix
22:43.58MaloeranYes, it's highly specific to Linux. I'm guessing Erik's stabbing of Tux was related to his malloc() complain
22:43.59brlcadmalloc() could just as readily return NULL (and readily will under plenty of situations) even under linux
22:44.06brlcadahh
22:45.18brlcadhe just makes up excuses to jab at stuff like that ;)
22:46.22brlcadmy comment was regarding to the commit he made just a little bit ago.. had a bu_malloc() return value checking null.. which it will never be in brl-cad
23:30.12``ErikI was grousing about an internal crash in free(), actually, int_free() I think? I believe I may've been a little loose around the boundries O:-)
23:39.24IriX64anybody need a stock gcc for winblows?
23:39.45IriX64needs cygwin1.dll tho and a couple of others.
23:40.15MaloeranHrm, people can just download mingw or cygwin for that?
23:40.31IriX64sure.
23:41.03IriX644.12 neat.
23:41.27MaloeranAnd due to the nature of windows "security", you'll never find anyone accepting a binary executable for that platform
23:47.09IriX64haha just playing around, not intented to be serious.
23:47.29IriX64right now it compiles but i cant find the executable, go figure.
23:56.15IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/385641    <---- have a peek :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070308

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070308

00:07.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/385645     < heres last weeks effort :)
00:09.53MaloeranSo you decided to start coding then! Nice, C language?
00:10.00IriX64am i going to have to go through hoops to find the thread limit on this thing? in os2 you could set your limit up to the max 4095 in config.sys.
00:10.10IriX64yes C
00:11.21MaloeranThere might be no limit but the available system memory
00:12.15IriX64true, would be nice to know for sure though ie instead of program bombing out.
00:12.32MaloeranYou never want to get anywhere near that limit
00:12.53MaloeranNormally, you should have one thread per processor core, perhaps up to a few per core if doing intense socket I/O
00:13.04IriX64should still know though so you can avoid getting near it.
00:15.05*** join/#brlcad DarkMaster (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:15.06IriX64would be nice if the system had a threshold detewctor, saying something like goof, threads near saturation. :)
00:16.03MaloeranNot quite.. Get count of processors and launch the same count of threads, any piece of software with hundreds of threads is broken
00:16.19Maloeran( Unless running on some Altix machine, etc. )
00:16.58IriX64100's i opened up 1024 threads on a single core pentium 100 and it ran fine and system still responded beautifulluy.
00:18.01MaloeranYes, and it's wrong
00:18.10MaloeranYou lose performance for no reason
00:18.54IriX64this was an app that was designed to use threads, there was no great system impact most of the threads were sitting in a wait for something loop.
00:21.10IriX64can use semaphores to signal, here's your something if you prefer.
00:47.29``Erikactually, setting the # of threads to be equal to the number of cores can seriously degredate performance on many kinds of apps.. having one more or less is often better... personally, I'm kinda down with 2n-1 for most shtuff
00:47.52``Erikand there're plenty of good reasons to super-saturate a system with processes or threads... hundres of thousands, millions, even...
00:48.09``Erikgreat way to stress the OS if you're working on improving the kernels scheduling or IPC facilities :D
00:48.43DarkMasteri have millions of threads in my shirt :-D
00:53.48``Erikspeaking of straining OS's, time to download haiku, yo
00:54.21brlcadmuahaha.. and the fun begins
00:56.11MaloeranErik, it trashes the cache of the processors, but it's of course a different business when threads are waiting for I/O
00:56.30MaloeranMay it be disk I/O for compilation or network I/O for server software
00:56.49MaloeranFor pure number crunching, it's really preferable to have exactly one thread per processor core
00:58.49MaloeranSpeaking of which... If you were ever wondering, the only reason why the model graph prep isn't scaling with threads is due to the abuse of a global memory mutex for all alloc/free ; I really need to revise my memory manager to work properly with threads and NUMA
00:59.48brlcadif your app is a kernel (whether a userland behemouth or an actual OS kernel), it can be perfectly expected that the threads will have nothing to do with each other, yet there may be N unrelated tasks and only M cores to run them on (where N > M, and N corresponds to at least one thread or process)
01:00.06brlcadthe same that holds true in kernel space holds for certain apps too
01:01.02MaloeranRight, I'm assuming that other processes are fairly light in processing time
01:02.13MaloeranHaving processes migrate from one core to another seriously harms performance, and it doesn't work too well with proper management of NUMA
01:09.11``Erikdepends on the memory usage of the process... you assume a certain hw usage pattern for that statement... happens to be one appropriate for raytracing... :D
01:10.24MaloeranI'm assuming number crunching software, not I/O software
01:15.06``Erikif the working data set is very small and pushed out to sysmem fairly often, then a migration will barely hurt... *shrug*
01:17.02MaloeranIt's not negligeable, and the "sysmem" might be a memory bank specific to the core the thread was running on
01:17.42MaloeranIt's terrible to have a thread running on a different core than the set of cores associated with the memory bank where the thread's stack is
01:18.27``Erikthat totally depends on the architecture, and is a numa specific layout... (which hypertransport is a 'mini-numa' as far as I can tell, so opterons suffer it)
01:18.59MaloeranLinux doesn't easily migrate threads over to a different die than the one that contains the stack memory
01:19.32MaloeranI think it may temporarily do that under bad stress patterns, but execution will tend to stick to the prefered processor die
01:21.36``Erikslowaris is the same way... neat thing about solaris is that you have tools to attach a thread to a core forcefully (so it CANNOT migrate it off, short of a hotswap cpu being pulled) as well as dedicating a core to a process o.O
01:22.02Maloeran*nods* You have that on Linux as well
01:23.38``Erikbsd has stronger processor and memory associativity, yes.
01:23.52``ErikI've said that before :) one of these days, I'll fix fbsd...
01:24.12DarkMasteri was tempted to try PC BSD
01:24.28``Erik(and it's fbsd, I d'no netbsd or openbsd's guts.... I do know that dragonfly was forked because matt said fbsd was being insanely retarded wrt multiprocessor shtuff
01:24.29``Erik)
01:31.09*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca)
01:46.57``Erikhuh, vim is in the haiku source
01:51.13``Erikhum, the dude from 'make magazine' is on colbert report
01:57.39``Erikno, heh
01:58.05``Erikhttp://www.makezine.com/magazine/
01:58.49``Erikhttp://www.makezine.com/  hah
02:01.35MaloeranI think I have some cultural knowledge gaps preventing me to appreciate this
02:24.42IriX64nice cat
02:25.25``Erikneato, on my hackintop, everything seems to build but asc2g craps itself in the db/ dir, nifty
02:26.21IriX64btw thanks for reminding me, dxf-g works, i got a hold of a shuttle dxf (not the acad one) and it converted and rt'ed
02:27.12TwingyI got more r/c shit than I know what to do with now
02:27.55TwingyI've been spending money like it's going out of style
02:34.46``ErikDEY TUK R JRBS!
02:34.54``Erikthe 'gooback' episode is on o.O
02:34.57``Eriknew episode after it
02:37.43Twingygood episode
02:37.53TwingyI have the firewall on the demon plane
02:38.00Twingyand the t-nuts for the wing bolts
02:38.22Twingyall it needs is some towerkote applied and an engine mounted plus servos installed
02:38.39Twingyand I just happened to have a pair of OS 0.46 LA's not in use
02:39.18TwingyI think I'm going out saturday or sunday weather permitting and flying both planes
02:40.10DarkMasterhey Twingy
02:40.59IriX64cd ../
02:41.07Twingydirectory not found
02:41.26PrezKennedyC:\WINDOWS>
02:41.28IriX64heh
02:41.37IriX64c:\os1/2
02:42.07PrezKennedyi love windows
02:42.24PrezKennedykeeps the paycheck coming in
02:42.28PrezKennedyonly reason
02:42.29PrezKennedy:-)
02:43.05IriX64mmmmm signature on the check is Bill Gates?
02:43.36Twingyno.. just some tard that thinks windows is awesome
02:43.56IriX64heh its common, just like mud :P
02:44.04PrezKennedymore of a necessity :(
02:44.20PrezKennedyconstruction company software BARELY runs on it
02:44.40IriX64hello world barely runs on it :)
02:45.10PrezKennedyim apathetic long as it works when im using it
02:45.43IriX64they blew it when they split with IBM.
02:51.40IriX64gotta go, life calls
04:57.00brlcadPrezKennedy: interesting.. what kind of software?
04:57.38brlcadyou could implement the features they need in brl-cad then get them to use that instead, then platform could be anything
04:58.11PrezKennedyhaha i saw that coming ;-)
04:58.35PrezKennedyits not the CAD program thats the problem... its the accounting programs and bidding software
04:59.15brlcadhey, "we are borg" .. they could be assimilated too
04:59.48PrezKennedysounds like emacs
04:59.59brlcadmeasily accounting programs and bidding software could be directly tied to the construction workflow in the same interface
05:00.20brlcadi bet they pay a pretty penny for that software too
05:00.45PrezKennedyyoud win that bet
05:01.24PrezKennedyNOT cheap
05:01.25PrezKennedy:-)
05:01.35brlcadso you reinvent their workflow, save them them 100's of k's per year in overhead and process efficiency (by custom tailoring the interface to the workflow)
05:01.46brlcadbefore you know it, you'll be VP in charge of IT
05:02.18PrezKennedyi dont wanna be in charge of IT... WAY too stressful a job
05:02.47brlcadso then just be a highly-paid consultant forever ;)
05:02.56PrezKennedyhaha
06:13.02CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: allow the procedural example to compile with or without OBJ_BREP, just provide a stubbed run-time error message.
06:21.13CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: restructure the proc-db compilations since they all pretty much need the same libraries. also, minimize all the conditionality around brep_cube so it only toggles whether OBJ_BREP is set or not.
06:54.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
06:54.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: use []'s instead of .at() for portability.. and with that minor edit, g_brep
06:54.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: actually compiles under irix (gcc) now. the header b0rkage from a couple weeks
06:54.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: ago is apparently /dev/null'd through all the rewrites and changes
07:06.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (33 files in 33 dirs): (log message trimmed)
07:06.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: whoosh! push BU, BN, and RT (and maybe one or two others) out of library LIBADD
07:06.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: declarations down to application LDADD linkage. this means that there might be
07:06.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: issues to solve again towards being able to generate fully contained/resolved
07:06.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: libraries (e.g. frameworks), but solves the current problem of linking against
07:06.06CIA-7BRL-CAD: static tcl/tk libraries portably. duplicate symbols become a problem at link
07:06.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: time (bu, bn, and rt all use tcl). pushing the link specification all the way
09:29.53CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): since basename was removed from libsysv we do not need strlcpy any more
11:02.54*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.135)
13:44.11CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-xxx.c: c89 support, declare functions first
13:48.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/Makefile.am: need PKG for FB
14:40.55``Erikwtf
15:13.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 5 dirs): missing libs from the "whoosh"
15:26.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: Missing CFLAGS (tcl/generic). Missing libs. Whoosh.
15:26.41CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (rttherm/Makefile.am util/Makefile.am): missing libs from the "whoosh"
15:35.57*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
15:51.05brlcadyou realize that you added pkg twice to most of the bin's in util/
15:54.35CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tcl/tk have been updated now
15:55.41CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: mged now finds its resources more reliably at run-time with the auto_path updates in tclcadAutoPath.c
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16:04.06``Erikwoops, I did?
16:04.45brlcadlikes like a global replace on /{FB}/{FB} ${PKG}/
16:05.04brlcadwhere most already had PKG
16:05.38brlcadactually, i think binfo was the only one that didn't and probably needed it
16:06.07``Erikseveral broke, I think maybe it was ordering?
16:06.58CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: remove dup ${PKG} entries, keeping "friendly" link order
16:08.38``Erikbw-png, bw-a, that's probable where I did a s/re/rs/
16:10.07brlcadmebbie, though FB is the only one that comes to mind as using PKG
16:10.41``Eriklibfb is the one that bitches *shrug
16:10.42brlcadoh yeah, and fyi .. it will link and run against a system tcl/tk now .. but there's a problem with incrTcl if the versions don't match
16:11.06brlcadi ran a test last night and it'll even fire up mged console (while bitching about incr)
16:11.08``Erikhm, so any old tcl8.5 is groovy?
16:11.15brlcadit should
16:11.43brlcadincrTcl has a run-time check to make sure the tcl/tk loaded matches the header it finds (which is our 8.5 sources)
16:49.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca)
16:50.33IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/386448   <-- opening a new database and trying to create a metaball results in this, (twice)
16:51.42IriX64know npot what to do here.
16:51.47IriX64err not
16:57.16IriX64now mi created an ars, then tried a meta ball, same result.
17:01.25IriX64urf, even trying to do it in an existing database, this must be my stuff?
17:50.36*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.135)
18:21.10*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-40.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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18:39.06``Erikheh
18:39.38``Erik<-- been working on fixing the metaball crap... needs to quit doing a cvs update, cuz he ends up having to fix stuff every freakin' time O.o
18:48.46CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/anal.c: by request from Dwayne Kregel and others, increase precision of the analyze command output from 3 or 4 points after decimal to 8.
18:49.07IriX64heh
18:49.35IriX64#define no_metaballs_allowed. ;)
18:52.44CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS TODO): increased output precision on mged 'analyze' command, by request from Dwayne Kregel and friends for their modeling purposes.
18:54.03brlcadwhine whine cheese cheese .. this is all release prep -- as soon as it's green across the board, a release is going up
19:23.18CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: restructure brep compilation so that it uses the new SSE flags from configure, distinguish between cflags and cppflags.
19:25.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: shift segment to fix method bug
19:27.08CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: update metaball solid editing to follow pipe semantics (fixes a few crashes)
19:29.34clock_brlcad: I have a .g file on which g-dxf -r 0.5 pours some internal inconsistency messages and then tries to continue and segfaults
19:30.24clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.25clock_flange.s'
19:30.25clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.25clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:30.25clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.27clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:30.30clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.32clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:30.34clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.38clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:30.40clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.42clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:30.45clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.47clock_flange.s'
19:30.50clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.52clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:30.55clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:30.57clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:31.00clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:31.02clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:31.05clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:31.08clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:31.10clock_db_walk_subtree() FAIL on '/ronja1/head_holder1/head_assembled1.g/head1/flange1/
19:31.13clock_heel_holes_upper.c/hole_6.5.s'
19:31.15clock_(then 2 pages of normal output)
19:31.18clock_and finally:
19:31.20clock_Segmentation fault (core dumped)
19:31.32clock_#0  db_free_tree (tp=0x86386ca0, resp=0x3c0039d0) at db_tree.c:1500
19:31.32clock_1500    db_tree.c: No such file or directory.
19:31.32clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.32clock_(gdb) bt full
19:31.32clock_#0  db_free_tree (tp=0x86386ca0, resp=0x3c0039d0) at db_tree.c:1500
19:31.34clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.37clock_#1  0x1c001a4b in do_region_end (tsp=0x81a4c204, pathp=0x81a4c2f8, curtree=0x86386ca0, client_data=0x0) at g-dxf.c:1004
19:31.40clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.42clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.45clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.47clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.50clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.52clock_#2  0x021a9b7d in db_walk_dispatcher (cpu=-2119908860, arg=0xcf7f9270) at db_tree.c:2198
19:31.55clock_<PROTECTED>
19:31.58clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.00clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.03clock_#3  0x021aa1ec in db_walk_tree (dbip=0x89d7d000, argc=1, argv=0xcf7f9388, ncpu=1, init_state=0x3c003b80, reg_start_func=0, reg_end_func=0x7c90e060, leaf_func=0x7c90e060, client_data=0x0)
19:32.07clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.10clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.12clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.15clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.19clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.23clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.26clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.29clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.31clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.34clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.37clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.39clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.42clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.44clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.47clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.49clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.53clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.56clock_<PROTECTED>
19:32.58clock_#4  0x1c0014bb in main (argc=2, argv=0x89d7d000) at g-dxf.c:517
19:33.01clock_<PROTECTED>
19:33.04clock_<PROTECTED>
19:33.06clock_<PROTECTED>
19:33.09clock_And that's BRL-CAD 7.8.4 - the latest
19:33.28MaloeranHrm. Post that in rafb.net/paste, it might be more usable by brlcad/Erik
19:33.59``Erikor lisp.paste.org or pastebin.ca or ...
19:38.41IriX64clock_: whered the .g file come from? your creation or asc2g? or....?
19:39.06clock_My creation
19:39.32IriX64and you're using dxf2g?
19:40.15IriX64err g2dxf?
19:40.28*** join/#brlcad cad38 (n=803f204c@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:42.02IriX64its telling you the line number, 517.
19:42.19IriX64in g-dxf.c
19:45.45clock_g-dxf or hows the program called
19:58.11CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: tweak the point eval formula a tiny bit to allow negative points
20:00.40IriX64nmg_booltree_leaf_tees, that part clock_ ?
20:00.53IriX64tess.
21:50.23*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.135)
22:39.11*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-209-107.ks.ks.cox.net)
23:24.44*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-138-68-160.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070309

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070309

00:14.01CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/.cvsignore: ignore brep_test
01:03.27CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (21 files in 21 dirs): use the -fexception flag when necessary (osX/x86)
01:06.14brlcadbizzare.. I don't see why would those need -fexecption
01:06.54brlcadand I've been building successfully on osx/x86
01:08.41``Erikthey broke on mine *shrug*
01:08.46``Erikdo you have opennurbs built into your librt?
01:08.54brlcadyep
01:09.00``Erikhum
01:09.12``Erikmust have something different in the env or something
01:10.48brlcadbut I mean even the need for the flag doesn't make sense .. exception handling code can only be generated by the c++-compiled code .. maybe if libtool is for some reason linking in librt and/or open nurbs static, I could see
01:11.11brlcadwas there a correllation?  was that everything that linked RT or something?
01:11.15``Erik*shrug* I read the docs on the flag, ummm
01:11.36``ErikI wasn't paying attention to that, I know some of them had only some stuff in the dir needing it
01:11.55*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca)
01:12.19``Erika couple things are getting the flag when they don't need it because 25 of the 28 things needed it and I figured keeping the automake file cleaner was more important *shrug*
01:13.36brlcadi mean more along the lines of if it's opennurbs propagating the need via some libtool behavior, it could also be stuffed into the OPENNURBS symbol
01:14.16brlcadbut to date, I hadn't seen a single failure other than linking static binaries
01:14.29``Erikonce autogen.sh finishes and I get it configured up again, I'll look into that
01:15.28brlcadlinking static made total sense .. almost implies that openNURBS compiled static or something (or libtool thought it needed to resolve, or something)
01:15.49brlcadnot really complaining, just would like to understand it
01:15.57brlcadto avoid it
01:29.02brlcadI should have the COPYING/INSTALL clobbering (re)fixed again here shortly too, f'ing automake
01:35.26``Erikphark, I musta had and old binary of librt or opennurbs or something :/
01:39.03MaloeranEh cool. A chunk of Survice's fire modelling code is written in Java, and that chunk of code is windows only
02:06.40IriX64dm-ogl has issues.
02:07.52IriX64ogl_choose_visual ogl_open ogl_close exist elsewhere man.
02:08.32brlcad``Erik: make sure my recent src/librt/Makefile.am change didn't accidentally disable g_brep/OBJ_BREP .. looks like it's on here, but I haven't tried a run-time test yet
02:09.23IriX64rename those 3 bwish will compile just fine.
02:09.30brlcadthe next release will likely be --disable-opennurbs just to keep things consistent so it's not a big deal either way
02:10.13brlcadIriX64: is there any cohesion to your thought processes?  what ARE you talking about??
02:10.58IriX64the file dm-ogl has functions in it that clash with others
02:11.04brlcadseriously, it sounds like you're on weed .. and I can't tell if you've got a compilation error with 4.1.2 or are fooling around
02:11.24brlcadwith others in what?
02:12.03IriX64whatever library youre linking against in bwish, its gone noew or id tell you.
02:12.11IriX64the fix is to fix dm-ogl
02:12.50brlcadthat might make the problem "go away", but I'm not going to change those function names without knowing what the problem is
02:13.03IriX64multiple definitions.
02:13.28brlcadand that's where you need to say .. where ;)
02:13.33IriX64at link time of bwish
02:13.42brlcadnot the symbols, and not *when*
02:13.45IriX64ok ;)
02:14.01IriX64ill learn :)
02:14.25brlcadthere are symbols from N multiple places, according to what you said .. what are those places (which files)
02:14.33brlcadit could be a simple linking issue
02:14.40brlcador an issue with your configure arguments
02:14.47brlcador an issue with code assumptions
02:14.54brlcador some combination thereof
02:15.22brlcadsomehow I suspect you've got a static debug build going or something
02:15.26IriX64dm-ogl and i lost where they're first defined, thought it was just this code so i didn't note it, ill try again if this compile finishes.
02:16.30IriX64how about this show stopper sdi_dep.c device.h, no such file or directory.
02:16.46brlcadsdi_dep.c ??
02:16.52IriX64sgi
02:17.41brlcadin which dir?
02:18.08IriX64src/fbed
02:19.15brlcader.. you have HAS_SGIGL defined??
02:19.25IriX64just a sec ill check
02:19.36brlcadgrep HAS_SGIGL include/brlcad_config.h
02:20.03IriX64yes
02:20.16brlcadit should NOT be defined for you .. so either the configure check detected incorrectly, or you've been messing with something..
02:21.21IriX64all i messed with was the presence/not presence of ogl.
02:21.36IriX64i have it and it was coming up false.
02:26.51brlcadsounds like you might have forced the wrong thing on
02:27.58brlcadi can't imagine you having a -lgl that has getvideo()
02:45.45IriX64but it has gl_enable().
02:47.04IriX64but im probably all wet, ill revisit it later, now im compiling my first love gcc.
02:47.13IriX64right now i mean.
02:47.31brlcadthere are multiple gl libraries
02:47.39IriX64true
02:47.45brlcadit sounds like you forced on the wrong ones
02:47.56brlcadyou don't have the sgi gl library
02:48.02brlcadhence the error
02:48.10IriX64quite probably you're right
02:48.53IriX64gotta test my new baby, BRL-CAD comes to mind ;)
03:01.53*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669659.dsl.bell.ca)
03:41.47brlcadheh
03:43.51IriX64somebody says... so put them in :)
04:06.18louipcBritney_Spears was going to talk to me in ##freebsd. I had to uh kind of go to that level yeaah
04:06.59louipc*kind of had to go..
04:11.03louipcyou have to do little bits of many tasks at a time
04:11.28IriX64heh i get stuck on the first little bit
04:11.31louipcI seem to have trouble making sentences now
04:11.43IriX64get in line
04:11.59MaloeranThis may trash your brain's cache memory though, better use fairly large time chunks
04:12.48IriX64the brain is the spark of our faith
04:13.21IriX64we're all born with it, it's just that somehow some of us lose it.
04:14.16brlcadlouipc is really just a teenager girl in disguise
04:14.52brlcadirc: where the men are men, the women are men, and little girls are fbi agents
04:17.13IriX64actually have a relative named brandy.
04:17.22IriX64my cousins wife
04:18.33PrezKennedyirix... wasnt that an SGI workstation from the 80's?
04:20.05MaloeranClose, it's the name of the operating system
04:20.36PrezKennedystill around?
04:21.00IriX6470's :)
04:21.37IriX64Silicon Graphics Inc, you remeber?
04:21.45IriX64remember too.
04:22.22MaloeranI think Irix is fairly dead these days
04:22.26PrezKennedybefore my time... but i played Doom and dogfight when i was young
04:22.45IriX64still have a copy of doom
04:22.58IriX64son played it a lot
04:23.03MaloeranActually, Irix 6.5 came out in 1998, latest stable release 6.5.30 August 2006
04:23.24PrezKennedyi have doom for PC now
04:23.25IriX64the fount of all knowlede spoke ;)
04:23.28``Erikthe name of the OS, actually, not the workstation
04:23.33PrezKennedyand i have the windows port of dogfight for PC
04:23.47IriX64man i don't know squatt about Irix.
04:24.17``Erikand the first irix was a bsd 4.3 variant in '88 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irix
04:24.32MaloeranPoor SGI, how is it doing these days?
04:24.41``EriksysV+bsd43 rather
04:24.49``Erikpink listing last I heard, mal...
04:24.58MaloeranPink listing? What's that?
04:25.05IriX64Maloeran, I would know this how?
04:25.50PrezKennedyi thought they were being delisted
04:26.00brlcadMaloeran: it's an invite to a Britney Spears birthday party
04:26.22louipcBritney Spears uses FreeBSD
04:26.48PrezKennedyBritney Spears uses Windows 3.11 for Workgroups
04:26.54PrezKennedyand i use the term "uses" loosely
04:27.22brlcadnetcraft doesn't confirm it
04:27.28brlcadsays she's running linux :)
04:27.59``Erikpink listing is the 'probationary' before being delisted... looks like sgi went into chap11 and back out, hopefully their recovery stays on track o.O
04:28.25brlcadthe reorg and focus on altix was a good decision
04:28.42brlcadit's their only remaining niche that they haven't sold off the intellectual rights to at this point
04:28.58brlcadbut still a long shot
04:29.01``Erikheh, unfortunately the altix uses itaniums :)
04:29.24``Erikif they'd gone with opterons, they'd probably be a bit better off
04:30.36brlcadfor that niche, it probably doesn't matter too much
04:30.42MaloeranIntel really made a mess with their Itaniums, several companies believed in this new architecture
04:30.45brlcadthe single-image scalability is their bread winner
04:31.13brlcadthe first crop of itaniums was horrid, I2 was much better
04:31.40MaloeranEven Microsoft created this interpreted C# thing for windows binaries to work equally on ia32 and ia64, which of course is now useless with ia32/amd64, although they got a lot of people hooked to it somehow
04:31.48``Erikif intel would've sold 'em cheaper (loss-leader style instead of high markup 'premium' at first), things robably woulda been different :)
04:32.33MaloeranYes, Itaniums were way too expensive, totally out of range of ordinary mortals
04:34.33MaloeranEven later, I don't understand why they didn't cut price by 70-85% when Opterons came around, the outcome was getting really obvious
04:35.04MaloeranThe instruction set was great, the architecture was neat, I really wish we could have moved away from this x86 cludge
04:41.45IriX64err athlon/xp
04:42.01PrezKennedygnight folks
04:42.14IriX64knight :)
04:42.19IriX64ah well.
04:44.58IriX64if ibm had selected motorola instead of intel, none of the segment stuff woulda ever been necessary.
04:45.52IriX64pdp11 on a chip, gotta love it. (6502)
04:46.52IriX64anybody remeber the NEC v20?
04:47.06IriX64z80 and 8088 on one chip.
05:00.56``Erik6502 was MOS, not motorola
05:01.48IriX64err?
05:02.37IriX64lemme check my cpu reference :)
05:02.44``Erikthe dudes who made teh 6800 quit motorola, started their own co and started making new chips
05:03.04``Erikand commodores used the 6502 and it's family for the vic, c64, c128,  ....
05:03.10IriX646502 was put out by motorola
05:03.32IriX64atari line also used 6502
05:03.44``Erikmotorola chips are 68*
05:03.53IriX64now yes
05:04.10``Erik6501 was pin compatible with the (older) 6800, then there was a lawsuit, the 6502 was a pin incompatible version
05:04.24``Erikaccording to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502
05:04.31IriX64dude...
05:05.17IriX64wikipedia.... pfffffft
05:05.19``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600 points to MOS, too
05:05.21``Erikheh
05:06.41IriX64first one though was an ohio scientific endeavor.
05:07.35IriX64addiction calls, bbiab :(
06:36.11*** join/#brlcad cad94 (n=51df8a12@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:36.22*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168050142.dsl.bell.ca)
07:46.53brlcadmy spidey sense tingles
09:31.00CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: (log message trimmed)
09:31.00CIA-7BRL-CAD: major update. this change adds support for protected recursive build
09:31.00CIA-7BRL-CAD: preparations, saving copies of all the relevant COPYING/INSTALL files that might
09:31.00CIA-7BRL-CAD: get stomped on by automake/autoreconf (EVEN WHEN USING AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS). the
09:31.00CIA-7BRL-CAD: files are even still stashed into memory too by using tricksy path-specific
09:31.02CIA-7BRL-CAD: variables. this fix will restore the files correctly regardless of whether
09:31.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: autoreconf or manual steps are taken. t'is a royal hassle just to compensate
11:01.46*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.198)
11:35.57*** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:50.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: the spezialization is friend, not the template
11:59.28CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/ (vector.h vector_fpu.h vector_x86.h): VC++ 6.0 does not like the (redundant) struct keyword in connection with a template
13:08.04brlcadrossberg: sorry, i missed the connection that it was the basename() code that started the strlcpy() ..
13:08.12brlcadi thought you had used strlcpy somewhere
13:08.22brlcadmy confusion
13:08.57brlcadall makes sense now since those basename sources were pulled from openbsd iirc
13:14.27CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: missing the case where the number matches exactly, check patch -eq patch
13:17.42rossbergbrlcad: i'm fine :-)
13:18.58CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: order
13:19.19rossbergbtw, gcc gives a warning for vector.h about the template friend
13:20.13rossbergthis warning can be switched off, but i don't know how to do this for vector.h only
13:27.42brlcadrossberg: if you know the warning number, you can add a pragma to disable it
13:29.45brlcade.g. #if defined(_MSC_VER) && _MSC_VER >= 1100   #pragma warning(disable: ####)  #endif
13:30.14rossbergbrlcad: ok, i'll have a look at this ... next week
13:30.48brlcadshould be used sparingly of course, but if it causes problems, that should do the trick
13:32.43rossbergthe warning is about the programmer might want a different beahvior, however i want exactly the current behavior
14:09.09``Erikstrlcpy() might be a good idea, but migrating our usage of strcpy to it might take a fair bit of 'grunt' effort
14:09.17*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548767EF.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:13.57CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
14:13.57CIA-7BRL-CAD: be extra careful about clearing out variables when we're done with them and
14:13.57CIA-7BRL-CAD: utilizing even less space when encoding string chars.. we're right up against
14:13.57CIA-7BRL-CAD: the ARG_MAX limit on irix and (some) bsd systems where keeping two copies of our
14:13.59CIA-7BRL-CAD: COPYING file in memory is turning out to be too much, but everything is fine if
14:14.01CIA-7BRL-CAD: we only ever have just one copy of the file retained in memory. ahh, such
14:14.03CIA-7BRL-CAD: abusive fun with environment variables.
14:39.33brlcadmeh, seems like busy work and somewhat politically charged
14:42.29*** join/#brlcad cad23 (n=db444236@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:55.23``Erikok, strncpy() *shrug*
15:13.10``Erikheh
15:13.51``Erikon "make dist"
15:13.51``Erikmake[4]: Entering directory `/some/path/src/other/tcl/unix'
15:13.51``Erikmake[4]: *** No rule to make target `distdir'.  Stop.
15:17.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/irprep/ir-sgi.c: include bu.h for bu_fgets
15:18.27CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/irprep/Makefile.am: reduce LDADD libs to minimal. Add deps info.
17:28.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/help.tcl: Added help for reset/bv_reset (fixes bug 1219087)
18:33.32IriX64just realized something, sorry i won't do it again.
18:38.44``ErikI don't think this channel is intended for getting your hand on someones nozzle. O.o
18:39.19IriX64heh I'm male but thanks for the offer ;)
18:39.46brlcad``Erik: yeah, I noticed that too -- all of the automake targets aren't in tcl's makefile since they only use autoconf
18:39.54brlcade.g. make etags   too
18:40.37brlcadhave to provide similar recursion halts in src/other/tcl/Makefile.am
18:41.11brlcadmaybe make it not be a SUBDIRS, and just do a cd && make manually
18:41.27brlcadso that the other rules can be removed too
18:41.50brlcadstrncpy cleanup is a great idea
18:42.17brlcadi was going to focus on that as part of the Pedro's security scan cleanup
18:42.32brlcadstill a release or two away
18:42.37``Erikthat might be a 'jr developer' task
18:43.16``Erikdist/distcheck is kinda, uh, important... though...
18:45.15brlcadthe security cleanup isn't necessarily, but yeah on the gruntage
18:49.56brlcadIriX64: you ever get to testing those geometry conversions? or plan/hope to? really would be helpful
18:50.09brlcadmoreso that compilation testing :)
18:51.01IriX64dont have the patience, but your team should be able to do: g-dxf followed by a dxf-g and likle wise for all of them, you darn well better get back what you started with.
18:51.57brlcadyou're talking to the team, we're working on other aspects of the project
18:52.11IriX64heh maybe ill tackle it then.
18:52.27IriX64start with g files i better get back a proper g file :)
18:52.55``Erik"the team" is kinda 2-3 people with 'todo' lists measured in au's O.o
18:53.11brlcadyou won't end up with what you started with as dxf is a different representation, but it should resemble the original just in polygonal form
18:53.19IriX64heh break the light speed barrier then :)
18:53.51IriX64dxf-g tested it works.
18:54.07IriX64and not just starting with a g file.
18:54.15IriX64got a holt of a real dxf
18:59.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: tuck openNURBS headers into a subdir instead of polluting include/ (should these be noinst?)
19:05.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: malloc.h was superceded by stdlib.h no later than c89, so try stdlib.h first
19:07.07``Erikhm, openbsd really doesn't like the mixing of c and c++
19:14.56brlcadREADME.BSD << "On OpenBSD, compile with ./configure CC=g++" is a perfectly viable punt for the short term too if there's only one or two like that
19:18.47IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/387972    < another project I play with :)
19:23.48IriX64but for a real treat I prefer brlcad ;)
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19:29.15clock_Funny message on OpenBSD
19:29.33clock_When compiling Ronja. Cannot fork, try again. Checked processes, didn't find any excess number of processes
19:31.13``Erikcool, I'm not seeing that on my obsd box :)
19:34.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: avoid the square brackets
19:48.33``Erikstupid square brackets *shakes fist* </homersimpson>
19:49.29brlcadyeah, took me a bit to realize that stupidity
19:49.53brlcaddon't see how it worked on two platforms I tested.. but it did
19:49.59brlcadgreedy match
19:51.39``Erikhm, the CC=g++ hack can't work on OpenBSD without mods tcl refuses to compile
19:52.13CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: initialize from the starting directory
19:53.36brlcadreally .. that's odd
19:53.50brlcadwhat about just linking with g++
19:54.01brlcad./configure LD=g++ or something iirc
19:54.39``Erik-Wno-implicit-int makes it puke
19:55.11brlcadahh, I take it that is something tcl's adding
19:55.37``Erikyes, in src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.am
19:57.16``Eriker, .in, not .am, sorry
20:05.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: remove debug printing
20:10.05CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/ (Makefile.am dd_protocols/Makefile.am): remove the pkgIndex.tcl (unused) and tclIndex (shouldn't ever need to be generated) targets so non-GNU make's work when builddir!=srcdir
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20:14.39``Erik[[['''']['''']['''']['''']][['''']['''']['''']['''']]
20:14.41``Eriknice
20:35.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: try to cope with OS's that don't like dots in library names
20:44.08clock_|''''
20:44.18clock_|''''|''''|''''|''''|''''|''''
20:44.39CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: rename brep_hbv to more appropriate brep_bv
20:46.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: begin implementation of rt_brep_prep: construct BVH, and precalculate cdbitems
20:46.08``Erikheh, I believe what I pasted was brlcad's "extra square brackets" effect on some of my files... :)
21:00.57``Erika/det
21:01.00``Erikbah
21:22.43CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): restore make dist support by removing 'unix' as a SUBDIRS; add rules for all-am and clean-am for starters. only tested on fbsd thusfar.
21:47.17brlcadthat doesn't fix distcheck, but does generate the dist
21:47.21CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: need to recursively delete the autom4te.cache directories else there can be a plethora of build problems of the "Can't locate object method "path" via package "Request" sort.
21:57.02MaloeranAhahah, this is so sad  -  http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=11211.0
22:48.58IriX64love make -i :)
22:49.14IriX64finished the build in spite of adrt.
22:53.40IriX64too many undefined references though for it to be your problem.
22:58.34IriX64why is python2.4 in makefile.in for adrt/isst/master? I have python 2.5 and theres no version number shown in config.log.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070310

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070310

00:24.33Twingynobody knows!
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12:28.32clock_A BRL-CAD model: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja1_3.png
13:38.41clock_``Erik: not yet
13:38.57clock_``Erik: the LED position is determined through instinct
13:44.19``Erikhm, if you put a light source at your 'target' and a "card" down the length of the tube, you should see an X pattern on it, I'd imagine, with the cross being the most instense part :)
13:45.48``Erikcould also use the photon mapping with a fake 'scene' to see if there're ways to configure things to reduce noise at the sensor *shrug* :)
13:50.42``Erikhrmmmm, yuh oh, hypersample and jitter aren't mentioned in rt's -h
13:51.10``Erikif you rt with like -H 5, a lot of the aliasing will go away
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19:01.24``Eriknot too surprisingly, packaged grocery store sushi is not that good.
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22:17.57louipcwhois deltazap
22:52.44IriX64not me ;)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070311

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070311

00:04.51bjorkBSDnot me.
00:06.59``Erik...
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00:20.45IriX64... = and your point is :)
00:42.44bjorkBSDthat i'm not delta zap.
00:53.10IriX64i was thinking we should adopt ... to mean and your point is :)
05:24.21brlcadwoot, finally done with the application
05:24.47brlcadhopefuly didn't write too much .. hmm
06:19.41TwingyI'm sure they will write back... "Dear Sean, thank you for your submission to GSoC, but you've written entirely too much and have therefore forfeited your entry, have a good day."
06:20.06brlcadheh, mebbie
06:20.43TwingyI just installed ubuntu 6.10 on my new dell d420
06:20.43Twingygot 1280x800 + wifi working without a hitch
06:20.46brlcadnot too shabby
06:20.48Twingything weighs like a feather
06:20.58Twingybut still not a mac, doesn't have itunes
06:21.17Twingywhen apple reveals their subnotebooks I might snag one for personal
06:21.57Twingyfor now the D420 will be my email bitch for work and the occaisonal red-headed-step-child psuedo sidekick for my *nix software development
06:22.41brlcadyou read up on the flash-drive notebook that is supposed to come out?
06:23.06Twingyits light weight, crappy screen, and awful speaker(s?) make you want to focus soley on software development
06:23.12Twingyyes, not impressed
06:23.15brlcadall rumor-mill, of course, but seemed highly likely/reputable source
06:23.39TwingyI don't see why that can't be emulated at the kernel layer
06:23.56TwingyI don't like my disk drives fancy
06:24.07TwingyI just like them to work without failure and be cheap
06:24.43Twingyin fact, I could do without any disk drive for most of my needs
06:25.00brlcadbut then where would you store your pr0n?
06:25.04Twingya 1GB flash drive for the OS + nfs for local use and web for google apps on the road would be plenty
06:25.15Twingyheh, believe it or not I have 0 bytes of pr0n stored
06:25.18Twingy*gasp*
06:25.44Twingyand I *think* I have 1 illegal star strek episode and 1 illegal movie on my drive
06:25.52Twingy*trek
06:26.12Twingythe rest is src code and illegal mp3's mixed with legit aac's from itunes
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06:26.45Twingyall the mp3's are pre-itunes though, cept maybe a dozen
06:27.04Twingymy hard drive is pretty boring :)
06:27.14brlcadi need to de-aac my music at some point
06:28.08brlcadmine's probably considerably more .. um .. incriminteresting ..
06:29.27Twingybanshee plays aac
06:29.37Twingybut I'm not sure if it does the drm'd ones
06:29.55brlcadyeah, that's what I meant, de-drm them -- aac's just fine
06:30.05TwingyI need a program to go through all my files and do ogg-96 on them all
06:30.29TwingyI can't tell a difference beyond ogg-80
06:30.42Twingyso logically I choose the next step up
06:31.03Twingysupposedly it's like mp3-160/192
06:31.57brlcadsounds a bit high, but roughly about that much
06:32.36brlcadI encode everything as high a bit rate as it'll do just cause I don't want to ever recode again and really don't give a damn about the disk space
06:32.47Twingysolar panels will be cranking tomorrow
06:33.16Twingyalmost windy enough to make me not want to fly tomorrow
06:33.19brlcadi've got itunes set to 320 or whatever that highest is, for eample
06:33.44brlcadjust flap harder
06:33.48Twingy0-5 mph == fun, 5 - 10 mph == interesting, 10 - 15 mph == slightly unpleasant, 15 mph == stupid
06:34.13Twingytomorrow is 7mph - 13 mph
06:34.21brlcad45 mph == ?
06:34.39Twingy45 mph == build a windmill
06:35.02brlcadonly to have the hurricane passing through blow it away? :)
06:35.17Twingysooner or later I'm going to build a steam engine and wire it up to my solar generator
06:35.19brlcad(a small one)
06:35.54Twingyif it weren't for the fact that I need to feed it ~200V+ DC it'd be tiny
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17:07.22cad22hello?
17:08.03brlcadhello
17:08.51Twingyhello!
17:09.11cad22I have been trying to install v 7.8.4 on amd64
17:09.34cad22it crashes on make
17:09.51cad22on reading the GL/gl.h library
17:10.16cad22i tried with the no GL option but it still reads the file
17:10.44cad22have you heard of anone else having this problem before?
17:12.07brlcadhmm.. cad22, I haven't
17:12.14brlcad"crashes" on make?
17:12.21brlcadwhich OS are you on?
17:12.40cad22Ubuntu 6.06
17:12.52brlcadwhat's your configure line?
17:13.09brlcadand are you using CVS sources or latest tarball?
17:14.05cad22the first thing I tried was simply ./configure, I have also tried with --without-opengl and with -with-opengl=no
17:14.30brlcadin the summary at the end, does it say opengl is off?
17:14.45cad22yes, I verified that
17:15.01brlcadand are you using CVS sources or latest tarball?
17:15.14cad22I downloaded the latest from sourceforge
17:15.36brlcadso 7.8.4 source tarball
17:15.40cad22yes
17:16.10brlcadcould just be an issue in that old tarball that I'm forgetting (that was a while ago) .. but where's it actually failing?
17:17.41cad22when compiling either dm_obj.c or dm-ogl.c
17:17.56cad22(in libdm)
17:19.31cad22it ends up reading the gl.h file anyways
17:19.38brlcadhmm, yes
17:20.12brlcadgrep HAVE_GL_GL_H include/brlcad_config.h
17:20.19brlcadwhat does that report?
17:20.46brlcadand grep DM_OGL include/brlcad_config.h
17:21.02cad22#define HAVE_GL_GL_H 1
17:21.22brlcadwell that's odd
17:21.45brlcadyou apparently had a GL/gl.h during configure for that to succeed .. maybe in a different path
17:21.52cad22I get nothing for the second grep
17:22.01brlcadk
17:22.55brlcadcan you copy/paste the compilation line that fails?
17:23.22brlcadit should say something like:
17:23.23brlcad/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c -o dm_obj.lo `test -f 'dm_obj.c' || echo './'`dm_obj.c
17:23.36cad22where would I find this?
17:23.56brlcadcd src/libdm && make dm-ogl.lo
17:25.19brlcadthe first line output that says libtool or gcc is what i'm looking for
17:25.38cad22I reextracted from the compressed file and am recompiling again... I had changed stuff.  
17:25.47cad22It will take a minute.
17:25.49brlcadahh
17:26.14brlcadconfigure --without-opengl
17:26.32cad22I had commenteOpenGL support .......................: no
17:26.43cad22OpenGL support .......................: no
17:27.23cad22(the greps were after configuation and starting to compile)
17:28.40cad22ubuntu:~/Desktop/brlcad-7.8.4>cd src/libdm && make dm-ogl.loubuntu:~/Desktop/brlcad-7.8.4>cd src/libdm && make dm-ogl.lo/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/local/include -I../../include  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c -o dm-ogl.lo `test -f 'dm-ogl.c' || echo './'`dm-ogl.c/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/local/include
17:31.14brlcadand well that looks right
17:31.16brlcadand it fails?
17:31.34cad22ues
17:31.37cad22yes
17:31.42cad22usr/include/GL/gl.h:4325: error: syntax error before '*' token
17:31.47brlcadgrep DM_OGL_CFLAGS Makefile
17:32.00brlcadlook for the one that has an =
17:32.04cad22i get a ton of those... and
17:32.06cad22make[3]: *** [libdm_la-dm_obj.lo] Error 1
17:32.32brlcadyeah, to be expected.. it shouldn't be doing anything in that file.. but somehow DM_OGL is set
17:32.39cad22no result for grep
17:33.02brlcadgrep DM_OGL Makefile.am
17:33.23cad22no result
17:35.17brlcadhrmph
17:35.31brlcadyou're in src/libdm when you did the grep?
17:35.59cad22no, sorry.  I went back to 7.8.4 directory.
17:36.25cad22#DM_OGL_CFLAGS = -DDM_OGL -DIF_OGLDM_OGL_CFLAGS =libdm_la_CFLAGS = ${X_CFLAGS} ${DM_X_CFLAGS} ${DM_OGL_CFLAGS} ${DM_WGL_CFLAGS}
17:36.54cad22ubuntu:~/Desktop/brlcad-7.8.4/src/libdm>grep DM_OGL Makefile.amDM_OGL_CFLAGS = -DDM_OGL -DIF_OGLDM_OGL_CFLAGS =libdm_la_CFLAGS = ${X_CFLAGS} ${DM_X_CFLAGS} ${DM_OGL_CFLAGS} ${DM_WGL_CFLAGS}
17:38.03brlcader, which of those two?
17:38.03cad22the first was grep DM_OGL_CFLAGS Makefile
17:38.03cad22the second was: grep DM_OGL Makefile.am
17:38.21brlcadahhh, okay
17:40.43brlcadthat says DM_OGL is turned off
17:40.56brlcadyet you say make dm-ogl.lo fails
17:41.25cad22it shouldn't try to make dm-ogl.lo, then?
17:41.58brlcadno, it should -- without the DM_OGL define, it's an empty file
17:42.18brlcadunless if things were different in 7.8.4 and I'm just not remembering.. lemme get those sources
17:44.23cad22if it makes any difference: I do have a gl vid card: firegl v3100. so gl.h is a symbolic link  to glATI.h
17:44.55brlcadthat would be why configure should succeed (assuming you have the libs and the libs actually work as expected)
17:45.18brlcadbut the fact that it has a syntax error .. implies something wrong in the glATI.h header
17:45.33brlcadusr/include/GL/gl.h:4325
17:45.49brlcadwhat is on that line number?
17:46.00brlcad(almost done getting old sources)
17:46.53cad22there are a ton of those errors, i just picked one of the last ones:
17:46.55cad22typedef GLvoid      (APIENTRY *PFNGLGETACTIVEATTRIBARBPROC)(GLhandleARB programObj,                                                            GLuint index,                                                            GLsizei maxLength,                                                            GLsizei *length,                                                            GLint *size,                                                            GLenum *type,      
17:47.13brlcadahh, I presumed it was one of the first .. what's the very first error?
17:47.55cad22there are so many I can't scroll up...
17:48.20brlcadmake dm-ogl.lo 2>&1 | less
17:49.50cad22it said it was up to date
17:50.16brlcadeep
17:50.28brlcadthat means it compiled
17:50.36brlcadmaybe a different file is failing
17:50.40cad22I have tried previously "less"ing but the errors don't go to the less screen
17:50.55brlcadyeah, you have to redirect stderr .. add 2>&1
17:51.27cad22In file included from dm_obj.c:45:/usr/include/GL/glx.h:67: error: syntax error before '*' token
17:51.53brlcadokay.. dm_obj.c is failing.. not dm-ogl.c .. that makes more sense
17:52.11brlcadcurious, though .. /usr/include/GL/glx.h:67  is what?
17:52.55brlcadstill sounds like a header mixup that should actually work as you do seem to have the headers
17:53.10cad22ypedef void (* PFNGLXBINDTEXIMAGEATIPROC)(Display *dpy, GLXPbuffer pbuf, int buffer);
17:53.20cad22cut of the t
17:53.33brlcadahhh
17:53.41brlcadthey're not using contained headers
17:53.43brlcadshame on ati
17:54.20brlcad"Display" is an X11 type .. and they've apparently not included the X11 header in their glx.h
17:55.50brlcadso to fix.. you can either add #include <X11/Xlib.h> above the #include for glx.h in dm_obj.c .. or turn off HAVE_GL_GLX_H and HAVE_GL_GL_H in include/brlcad_config.h
17:56.29cad22i'll give the first a try
17:58.24cad22still get error
17:58.38brlcadexact same line/error?
17:58.39cad22(still on line 67)
17:59.06cad22usr/include/GL/glx.h:67: error: syntax error before 'GLXPbuffer'
17:59.17cad22#ifdef HAVE_GL_GLX_H#  include <X11/Xlib.h>#  include <GL/glx.h>#endif
18:00.07brlcadhrmph
18:01.03cad22the link was already present for gl.h to glATI.h
18:01.22cad22there was no link present for glx so I made one earlier
18:01.23brlcadcurious.. wonder if something else maybe is setting Display, or a #define elsewhere in some other header
18:02.13brlcadhmm.. that's caution-worthy in itself .. as those aren't necessarily the only two
18:03.02brlcadstill.. failing on display is odd.. add #include <Xlib/X11.h> and #include <GL/glx.h> above the stdlib.h line
18:03.27brlcadjust to make sure it's not tcl.h or something silly causing a problem
18:04.27cad22same error
18:05.22brlcadthat's "good" per-se though still leaves us with the same odd error
18:05.45cad22(lines now removed above stdlib.h)
18:06.43brlcadit's still looking like something wrong with your ati headers, though really hard to tell without reading through the header files
18:06.53brlcadprobably just as easy to turn them off
18:06.59brlcadit doesn't remove functionality
18:07.05brlcadjust uses a different mechanism
18:07.22brlcadi.e. comment out HAVE_GL_GLX_H and HAVE_GL_GL_H in include/brlcad_config.h
18:08.32cad22(i usually manage to on my own)
18:09.26brlcadif you're willing to provide some sort of shell access, I'll dig deeper, but it's looking like a rather bizzare setup issue atm
18:10.22cad22that seems like it worked
18:10.38brlcadwhere?
18:11.01brlcadit is one of their least used resources afaik .. but still..
18:11.25``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=665363
18:11.30``Erikhttp://developers.slashdot.org/developers/07/03/11/0049234.shtml
18:12.57brlcadhrmph.. just saw the wikipedia entry too
18:13.23cad22thank you very much fr the help
18:14.29brlcadcad22: no problem
18:14.45brlcadcad22: curious .. would none of the posted binaries work for you?
18:15.09cad22the ones I saw were 32 bit
18:15.14cad22are there 64 bit ones available?
18:15.58brlcadah, not for that version, for linux iirc
18:16.34brlcadonly because there aren't 7.8.4 binaries posted.. only a deb
18:16.45brlcadthere are 64bit binaries for 7.8.0 iirc
18:17.01brlcadyeah, http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559
18:19.10cad22Yes, I do have other 32 bit apps running.  I didn't remember immediately how to do that so tried to compile first.
18:19.48``Erikamd64 "just works" on the bsd and leenewx breeds I've messed with
18:31.02cad22Thank you again.  Got mged running...
22:41.55IriX64hahha i mean athlon.
22:47.00IriX64``Erik, what the heck is a metaball?
22:47.30IriX64s/a/s
22:48.41MaloeranAsk wikipedia on metaballs
22:49.09IriX64rarely use wikipedia Malorean how do i do what you suggested?
22:50.10IriX64rarely= haven't used it yet.
22:50.11Maloeranhttp://wikipedia.org/  Yype metaball in the search field, followed by pressing enter
22:50.48MaloeranAnd you really are missing something, the world's largest encyclopedia. It's fantastic, I can spend whole days just reading from it
22:51.01MaloeranType* metaball, rather
22:52.08MaloeranActually, their article on metaballs is surprisingly short in comparison to most others
22:53.12brlcadwhen all else fails, try what should be obvious
22:53.20brlcad~google metaballs
22:53.32IriX64does brlcad use bruteforce or the marching cubes approach?
22:53.48IriX64ill remember wikipedia.org, thanks Maloeran.
22:56.35IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/391172   < --- ogl has issues on my system brlcad.
22:57.46brlcadi'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess that you tried to force opengl on even though it was configuring off
22:58.04IriX64bad stab, i actually have it.
22:58.24brlcadyou might have it, but that doesn't look like an unmodified compile
22:58.34IriX64its a macro, any idea where it lives?
22:58.37brlcadthat error indicates it wasn't properly enabled
22:58.47IriX64really?
22:59.04brlcadreally
22:59.38brlcadyou forced it on via modifications, yes?
23:01.32IriX64no honestly.
23:02.02IriX64found it the file lives in include/fbio.h looking now.
23:02.55brlcadthen there's preprocessor logic that is out of what .. something rather non-trivial to debug
23:03.26IriX64might be this number im looking at just a sec.
23:03.31brlcadthat check it's failing on is merely a sanity check to make sure it really has a framebuffer object
23:03.34brlcadit doesn't, so it aborts
23:04.24IriX64numbers don't math should be is what you have and what imp providing doesn't match, not your bug (i think)
23:04.25brlcadthere is *nothing* wrong with the various _CK_ macros that you keep checking -- those are security safeguard checks so that the application aborts soon
23:04.47brlcadwhat that abort means is that some before that point in the code already went wrong
23:04.56brlcadthat just happened to be where it was cuaght
23:06.26IriX64ty ill keep looking.
23:33.49IriX64where'd wikipedia come from?
23:34.53IriX64sheltered too.
23:41.25brlcadask wikipedia
23:42.48brlcadit's been around for many years .. just about every topic.  hard to do a search without a wikipedia result coming up
23:43.00MaloeranMore than seeds, the Norwegian government should have stored full backups of Wikipedia in the Doomsday Vault
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070312

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070312

01:37.41IriX64interesting
01:38.11IriX64and obviously they keep adding to it.
01:40.07IriX64good to know i'm not in there, was worried for a moment :)
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04:36.58IriX64brlcad just out of curiosity, does that magic number, is it returned from gl, and is it guaranteed to be the same on everybodys system?
04:38.13IriX64I took it out of my copy, and am curious if im breaking anything else?
04:38.33IriX64still compiling, i'll know soon.
04:49.24MaloeranMagic variables as first member in structs are used to uniquely identify the chunk of data for debugging purposes
04:52.26MaloeranSpeaking of which, I find it strange that there's no global switch to disable these checks and remove the magic variables
05:07.08IriX64they're merely checking a passed pointer to a struct for validity, in fb_close trying to close the device.
05:12.17IriX64works ty.
05:12.23IriX64rt too :)
05:16.18IriX64was failing on the open.
05:18.52IriX64my way i still check the pointer for validity, but it's not tied to that funny number.
05:20.36IriX64just use the same name for the new check, it passes, i recompiled everything.
05:25.56IriX64still need the other two variables (ptr and str) .
05:26.11IriX64for backwards compatibility :)
05:31.37IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php       my code for what its worth, nothing else need change.
05:37.11IriX64now to build an x version for myself.
05:38.00brlcadIriX64: removing the check doesn't fix anything any more than spraying perfume on crap makes it smell good
05:38.34brlcadit's a value defined by BRL-CAD and repeatedly checked for validity in the case of bug injection or bad compilation logic
05:38.39IriX64well my crap not only smells good it does what its supposed now :)
05:39.07brlcadit's still crap
05:39.22IriX64but crap that works is no longer crap
05:39.30brlcadthat's BS
05:39.35brlcadyou've just masked the problem
05:39.40brlcadand created an unstable system
05:39.51IriX64urf ok just ignore that snippit i pasted
05:40.00brlcadthere's no guarantee now that you might coorrupt a geometry database or cause other harm
05:40.19IriX64man we're dealing with video here its not rocket science.
05:40.21brlcadjust because it no longer aborts doesn't mean the problem is fixed, it aborted for a very important reason
05:40.36IriX64yeah the damn numbers didint match.
05:40.53IriX64one is supplied by me one by u go figure.
05:41.02brlcadthat's just the check
05:41.08brlcaddo you even realize what the check means?
05:41.14IriX64but it bombs on a simple open
05:41.23brlcadit means you have corrupted memory, the wrong data
05:41.36brlcadwhich means just about *anything* can  happen
05:41.46brlcadrandom crashes, unstable behavior, data corruption
05:42.04brlcadthat's absurd
05:42.11IriX64goats gotten, as i say you're free to ignore it.
05:42.41brlcadwell, just don't waste my time later with any other issues then, because that is a deal-breaker
05:42.53brlcadflat out, you're on your own
05:43.07IriX64sure if im going to hassle you ill recompile with that in it ok?
05:43.34IriX64err yours in it.
05:43.48IriX64simple #ifdef for sean ...
05:44.20IriX64ill even add it to configure ;)
05:44.29IriX64--for-sean
05:46.31brlcadthe fact it even works is interesting, perhaps a side effect of the prevalence of aliasing and struct alignments
05:46.44brlcadbut it's entirely unpredictable behavior
05:47.39brlcadwhat's bothersome is that you seem to think there's nothing wrong with the change you've made as if you understand the full implications .. I do not believe that to be the case
05:48.43brlcadi'm not just being pedantic about the check, there is a problem there that may or may not be benign, but it's an entirely unpredictable system and as a solid modeling system predictability and security of user data is paramount important
05:51.21brlcadMaloeran: brl-cad doesn't use the magic numbers just for debugging, it's fundamental to various data integrity tests and assurance that the application will shut down the instant an unexpected situation is detected so as not to corrupt data .. the user's data is vastly (several orders) more important than the application
05:52.50brlcadthere is a compile-time switch to turn off the actual checks and run-time debugging aspects of those checks, but we don't even ship binaries with that option .. it's intended for specific jobs where you know that an error won't be encountered and want the 5-50% performance gain
05:55.25brlcadas for actually removing the magic variables at compile-time, it's rather bad-practice to change the size of your structs between modes of compilation -- you change alignments, can mask errors, and can introduce new problems in itself
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06:58.23IriX64x works
07:16.12``ErikO.o
07:17.35``Erikremoving struct magic isn't going to buy you anything, just bring grief...
07:19.30``Erikyeah, it burns a clock in some functions, but if it ever follows the 'off' branch path, it's a serious error, so performance wise it's an "optimal" jne
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12:43.50brlcadour application has been entered
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13:40.21MaloeranMakes sense, brlcad. I guess the magic checks aren't too present in the critical performance loops
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15:48.48MaloeranMmhm, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6441631.stm
16:53.03IriX64used the wrong code tree, goof that I am, there goes another hour.
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19:05.08IriX64wikipedia knows nothing of glEnable() (cept for a java wrapper) :)
19:06.17IriX64should have all ansi programming references there :)
19:22.32brlcadit's also directly editable.. if you want to add something that's missing, you can directly do so
19:38.44IriX64doesn't that cause a mess?
19:39.37IriX64who keeps track of what i add it could be blatantly a lie.
19:47.42``Erikoh neat, they're running 'the prisoner' on bbc, first episode starts in 10 minutes
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21:01.34IriX64mc
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22:57.03MaloeranExclusive games or ports?
22:59.32``Eriksoftware at all
23:00.04``Erikhttp://www.lemon64.com/games/list.php?type=year&name=1999&submit.x=0&submit.y=0
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23:16.38IriX64some lemon for your tequila ``Erik :)
23:18.26Maloeran1999... We had 3d accelerated games and megabytes of RAM then, very surprising to see C64 games
23:19.10MaloeranThen again, some people in Efnet's #asm still write code for that platform, for some poorly defined reason
23:19.34IriX64why is amigaos in config.sub?
23:21.23IriX64likewise ibm370 ;)
23:21.38IriX64mvs mmmmm
23:26.15``Erikconfig.sub is a GNU provided file that supports an obscene # of os's
23:26.35``Erikheh
23:26.44``ErikI've had urges to write c64 asm in the last few months
23:27.16``Erikit's good to understand the history
23:27.48``ErikI also use hand-tools when I have equivelant powertools, and I cook things from scratch that I could buy pre-prepared at a restraunt or a grocers frozen section
23:27.50``Erik*shrug*
23:27.59``Erikc64 asm was fun...
23:28.03``Erikx86 is anything but.
23:28.38``Erikmips asm was fun, too... unfortunate that it didn't gain traction like that horrible intel klugefuck
23:30.27Maloeranamd64 & SSE is bearable
23:31.33IriX64``Erik i'm a pdp sort so I know what you speak of :)
23:32.04``Erikthe sse2 api is, uh, fugly? :)
23:32.16``ErikI d'no what exactly the differences between amd64 and x86 are
23:32.38IriX64both based on segments unfortunatly
23:33.23MaloeranSegments? Not quite
23:33.25``Erikheh, x86 style segment addressing still boggles me... I mean, "toy" computers of the 80's had moved to paged addressing
23:33.30bjorkBSDa pdp sort? he's a COBOL programmer :O
23:33.30IriX64SSE? elucidate ive been hiding from the industry for a while.
23:33.35``Erik70's, even
23:33.42``Erikthe c64 had sorta paged memory
23:33.54IriX64heh picture this picture that :)
23:33.56``Erikabsolute wiht fixed size, but .... O.o not offset
23:34.40MaloeranErik, I was wondering something.  Why don't they make chips able to buffer, let's say, 4 threads per core... and whenever there's a cache miss, it switches execution to another thread until execution can continue?
23:35.03``Erikuhh, I d'no? :D
23:35.09MaloeranI think it would be a fairly nice design, considering how cache misses are typically such a large bottleneck
23:35.12``Erikfeel free to patent the idea *cough*
23:35.20MaloeranPft :p
23:35.27``Erikjust remember, silicon costs, and you're talking about doing that in silicon
23:35.40bjorkBSDcommon sand?
23:35.48bjorkBSD... washed with common water? :P
23:35.55bjorkBSDthe beach becons
23:36.04MaloeranErik, it would simplify chip design on many other aspects
23:36.07bjorkBSD*k
23:36.27``Erikmal: do you have a silicon emulator?
23:36.28IriX64prefer quadruple cache 1=instructions current 2- instructions probable 3= data current 4=data probable.
23:36.29MaloeranThey could focus on just having multiple cores processing a large buffer of threads, rather than trying desesperately to make one thread run as fast as possible
23:36.39``Erikum
23:36.49``Erikin school, I got a copy of "mmlogic" I think...
23:36.53``Erikwindows only
23:37.05``Erikbut building a pipelined gpu in it was ... educational
23:37.09MaloeranWhenever there's a resource bottleneck, such as cache misses, it could suspend the thread and move to another one
23:38.09MaloeranIt would be an elegant way to keep all processing resources busy, while completely hiding the memory latency
23:38.36``Erikbut youd' be talking about building a full-up scheduler in silicon
23:38.51MaloeranNot a scheduler, just a small buffer of 4 threads per core
23:39.13``Eriksmall, yes, but a scheduler... :D
23:39.20MaloeranFine :p
23:39.46``Erikand process scheduling is very much a non-solved aspect
23:40.33MaloeranCome on, this is simple. Whenever a thread hits a cache miss, or requires the FDIV unit blocked by another thread, just switch to the next one
23:40.39``Erikunless you admit that the ingo O(1) scheduler jsut shoved in linux is no better than the ancient BSD 'fair use' scheduler...
23:40.56``ErikWHICH next one?
23:41.04MaloeranAny other of its 4 threads!
23:41.16IriX64and if they all block?
23:41.19``Erikbut which any? the one waiting for the result of the first?
23:41.20MaloeranThe OS can do correct thread management, the chip will just try to keep its resources busy
23:41.25``Erikthe one waiting on the disk read?
23:43.00IriX64could put in a deadman timer i guess Maloeran.
23:43.01MaloeranIt doesn't have to be fancy at all, there's the OS to do all the careful and proper thread management
23:43.38``Erikand what if it makes the kernel 1000x uglier to cope with the 2% speed boost? :D
23:43.54``Erikdude, get a silicon simulator, try your idea out... if it works
23:43.59``Erikfucking patent it and start a biz
23:43.59MaloeranThe point is just to switch between multiple threads currently awaiting processing in order to nicely hide the memory latency, while keeping processing resources busy
23:44.25MaloeranProcessing speed keeps increasing, memory is lagging behind, I think this is a solution to solve the issue
23:45.33``Erikbut I tend to use computers as data manipulators on large sets, not fast simple repetitive crunchers :)
23:46.09MaloeranExactly, wouldn't you prefer to fully hide the horrible latency of accessing your large sets which are never in cache? :)
23:46.21``Erikum
23:46.32``Erikthe data sets taht start to irk me are too big to fit in ram
23:46.36``Erikand i have boxen with LOTS of ram
23:46.37MaloeranMultiple threads managed by the hardware really are the solution
23:46.48``ErikI mean, my laptops have 2g a whack, they're tiny...
23:46.57``Erikthe boxes I "work" on are 8g and 32g
23:47.03``Erikg as in gigabytes of ram
23:47.13MaloeranFine, stop just loading data, and start doing some number crunching on it :)
23:47.26``Erikbut in grinding over 500gb of data, *shrug*
23:47.53MaloeranBah. So it's not useful to you. You do see the point of the design, right?
23:48.07``Erikmy cpu's almost never cook up anything notable in 'user' cpu... :)
23:48.36``Erikit could be useful, yeah... figure out the details, if it's really a win, patent it and make your zillion dollars
23:48.50``Erikthen you can 'retire' and do what you want instead of trying to make a living :)
23:49.11``Erikheh
23:49.18``Eriksolve the problem of paying bills.
23:49.19``Erik:D
23:50.04``ErikI mean, if you push this 'interesting problem' and make a few million bucks, you can get away with never trying to "make money" ever again, right?
23:50.30``Erikso you can focus on 'interesting' problems without worrying about rent or paying for lunch
23:50.31``Erikno?
23:50.43MaloeranDesigning a chip to take on AMD is not something I can do alone within a reasonable time frame
23:51.15``Erika defendable patent can be sold to the likes of amd *shrug*
23:51.26MaloeranAnyway, I think the ideas are good if anyone here likes gazillion stuff
23:52.22dtidrow_workgot a question for you all - which linux file system is best for handling lots of files in a single directory?
23:53.37dtidrow_workand that's available on linux?
23:54.00Maloerandtidrow_work, reading, writing, creating or deleting many files?
23:54.09``Erikbut my 'big' dir is only 13000 files
23:54.17dtidrow_workreading atm
23:54.24``Erikno, ufs is a UNIX fs, default for freebsd O:-)
23:54.31MaloeranThen reiser4
23:54.45dtidrow_workis it actually available?
23:54.54dtidrow_workthought it was still 'beta'
23:55.26MaloeranAh yes, that's probably right... Reiser3 is in the kernel sources though, of coursee
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070313

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070313

02:10.21*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-194-151.uchicago.edu)
03:13.33louipcew
06:14.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
06:14.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: add at least three (rather minor, all with workarounds) bugs noticed relating to
06:14.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: libfb/ray-tracer file redirection. libfb cannot utilize standard output/error
06:14.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: 'device' files (e.g. /dev/stdout) without path trickery, using such a device
06:14.04CIA-7BRL-CAD: fails if used with a pipe or redirect, and the ray-tracers output corrupted
06:14.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: imagery if using -o to a non-seekable file (like /dev/stdout).
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13:53.25``Erik*yawn*
14:54.02MaloeranGrah, I'm really bad sometimes. Struggling a moment with merely solving boolean operations on 2d polygons
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15:39.21IriX64brlcad: I've abandoned that convertor thing you asked me to do, don't know enough about the various formats, and lack test facilities for those, easiest way for you ppl though is convert one way then convert back to where you started from, should get an exact copy of what you started with.
16:24.38IriX64now to learn how to interact with adrt/rise.
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17:44.39``Erikheh
17:47.33``Erikg-dxf -o moss.dxf moss.g all.g && dxf-g moss.dxf moss-new.g &&  mged moss-new.g .... then e up the top level and see if it looks right...
17:47.40``Erikdon't really need to know much about the formats
18:05.13CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: pixcmp now reports non-zero code for off-by-one results. handle the new/expected return values.
19:51.04IriX64``Erik, i don't speak nix cmd lin :)
20:19.20brlcadwicked
20:19.46brlcadturning off debugging symbols actually decreased performance by a solid amount
20:20.55brlcad25%!
20:21.27brlcadthat's gotta be some massive alignment/coherency penalty going on
20:22.00dtidrow_worktalk about bizarre
20:24.20brlcadyeah, both O3, exact same options .. just one with -g and one without
20:24.49brlcadadding alignment flags to see
20:28.32``Erikbrlcad, what am I doing wrong or stupidly? error: cannot find interface declaration for 'NSObject', superclass of 'NSAppleMenuController
20:29.15brlcad#include <CoreFoundation/CoreFoundation.h>
20:29.55``Erikstill get it :/
20:30.29brlcader, one of those
20:30.30``Erikeven added "-framework CoreFoundation" to the compile line to see if it fixes something, but *shrug* no joy
20:30.34brlcadtry Foundation/Foundation
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20:33.13``Erikhm, Foundation seems to be fixing some of it
20:38.20``Erikyeah, heh
20:38.34``Erikthis .m file is... not... healthy...
20:38.48``Erikat least, not for the twisted way I'm trying to abuse it O:-)
20:38.51``Erikthanks :D
20:39.18brlcadSDLMain.m?
20:39.34``Erikyeah
20:39.36``Erikahhhhhh
20:39.43``Erik#import <Cocoa/Cocoa.h> made it all happy
20:40.08brlcadheh, including the kitchen sink usually does
20:41.14brlcadyou do realize that there's an SDLMain.h too?
20:41.34brlcadthat includes SDL.h, Cocoa.h, and declares the interface correctly
20:43.45``Erikah, heh, didn't notice it... the .m didn't import it :/
21:12.53brlcadahh, function/jump/loop alignment alone restored performance back to within about 95% .. i bet it'd be all back if I added a few more related flags
21:13.52brlcaddo we have any popular systems that aren't aligned on 16 other than hpc?
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21:35.19MaloeranVery often, chunks of memory from malloc() are only aligned on 8 bytes
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23:54.50``Erik.. that depends on OS
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070314

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070314

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00:22.48MaloeranHence the "very often" part
00:25.12brlcaddon't care about the rate, care about the prevalence :P
00:26.34brlcadaligning to 8 is fine anyways, the problems would be alignments > 16 or non % 8
00:35.34Maloeran*nods* Overlooking SSE, the cache memory can prefer getting proper alignment for chunks of 16,32,64 bytes
00:38.03brlcadwhat I really need is a configure test that compares 8, 16, 32, 64 to see which is fastest for some simple operation
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06:08.38``ErikI put in a ticket to get that del 2450 offically recognized and permitted... but the hw seems to have issues...
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07:18.18CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (termcap.src Makefile.am): add a termcap source file, version 9.13.25, pulled from NetBSD. avoids license issues and works with existing library sources.
07:18.50MaloeranDarn. You make me check in the source, and fbsd's malloc really does align on 16 bytes
07:19.53MaloeranIt seems a bit weaker than Linux's though, and of course suffers the same problem of a global mutex lock
07:20.27MaloeranPosix threads could have included proper scalable memory management as part of the standard
07:32.24brlcadyou would probably appreciate the results from a raw malloc benchmark that I wrote/ran several years ago
07:33.09brlcadit allocated memory across the entire spectrum of allocation sizes, looking at the raw allocation performance numbers
07:33.32brlcadran the test on most operating systems available at the time, with some wildly surprising results in some cases
07:34.58brlcadyou could see the see various allocation size optimizations that some libraries catered too, pathalogical horror allocation sizes, performance scalability
07:55.28CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (10 files):
07:55.28CIA-7BRL-CAD: update from the old vi termcap sources to the more modern NetBSD implementation.
07:55.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: this version doesn't suffer the assumption that there needs to be an
07:55.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: /etc/termcap among many other improvements. it's under 3-clause BSD and seems
07:55.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: to be version 0.6 dated December 17, 2006.
08:12.26CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/configure.ac: use newer autoconf/automake symantics
08:12.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: include the manpage in the dist, clean up after junk. makes a local make distcheck work for enigma.
08:36.29CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c: also search in BRLCAD_DATA/etc for a termcap file. quell warning on cgetent() constness.
08:36.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/Makefile.am: install the termcap.src file into BRLCAD_DATA/etc
08:38.16CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: just use dist_mans
08:42.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed jove/termcap issues on Mac OS X
08:44.58CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: updated bundled libtermcap to NetBSD version 0.6
08:48.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/vfont.c librt/vshoot.c): bu_malloc is guaranteed to never return NULL, so remove the unnecessary checks
10:02.41*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:59.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
11:59.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: missing return statements added
11:59.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: min and max initialized
11:59.50clock_brlcad: did you manage to repair some of the buggers I reported?
12:14.41*** join/#brlcad rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:31.33brlcadyou never saw it?
13:33.10brlcadit made Apple reimplement their malloc between 10.2 and 10.3 (and what an improvement they made..)
13:37.04``Erikdon't believe I've seen it, no... I know you've told me about it, but ...
13:38.22brlcadpretty simple code, came up with it back in college days as a way to take down the uni's servers
13:38.48``Erik:)
13:38.49brlcadcould outright lock everyone out of the system on-demand, even consolers
13:38.51archivistnaughty boy
13:39.27brlcadbut that was also just due to the "inexperience" of those sys admins to figure out how to counter it
13:40.09brlcadlater turned it into a basic stresser, added some timers, started making graphs .. found lots of surprising results quickly across implementations
13:40.18archivistuni has to be a good training for sysadmins
13:40.37brlcadindeed :)
13:40.57``Erikhrm, probably failry easy to bin os's by which allocator they use
13:41.22``Erikdl vs phk ...
13:48.02*** join/#brlcad ak_real (n=d4b0f9ad@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:32.06brlcadaha!
16:23.00*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
16:28.59*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
16:45.14IriX64./configure --for-sean built successfully, but without opengl sigh.
16:45.47IriX647.6.2 however opengl works yay  :)
16:46.25IriX64heh man the parts weren't made to fit ;)
16:46.50clock_IriX64: you mean overlap?
16:47.30IriX64_clock I mean as you and me unles you're a woman of course.
16:47.40IriX64oh man...
16:47.54IriX64modelling it? how would you get it built?
16:49.24*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
16:49.45IriX64there's a picture of the opengl window on my space, forget what number.
16:50.28IriX64www.spaces.live.com/irix64
16:51.44IriX64its called ogl
17:00.16IriX64mmmm x works, got a havoc uo on the screen.
17:00.22IriX64up too.
17:03.16IriX64that "x" pix i just uploaded is 7.8.4.
17:04.24IriX64before you wonder, I have nothing but time on my hands and i love playing with software.
17:06.25IriX64rt however says rt:  can't open frame buffer, no cuch device "/dev/ogll"/
17:07.04brlcadshould be using /dev/Xl
17:07.17IriX64i just typed rt
17:07.22IriX64no parameters
17:07.26brlcadthen you have FB_FILE set somewhere
17:07.35IriX64shouldnt it default to what you have up?
17:07.54IriX64syas opengl wasn't built.
17:08.05brlcadit defaults to what it was compiled to use, unless FB_FILE is set or unless you specify
17:08.14IriX64ty ill look
17:08.17brlcadthe "fbhelp" command lists the default and all others supported
17:08.25IriX64ty again
17:11.05IriX64christ man its used everywhere but its not in the ./include dir files at all unless im missing it.
17:11.25brlcadhuh?
17:11.42brlcadFB_FILE is an environment variable, nothing to do with the source code
17:11.58brlcadfbhelp is a command (outside of mged)
17:12.11IriX64my mistake thought it was a define somewhere :)
17:13.05brlcad"brlman fbhelp" explains
17:13.21IriX64ty ill read it.
17:18.20IriX64what dir plz brlcad i can't find it.
17:19.28IriX64looking in html docs dir.
17:20.21brlcadwhat dir what?
17:20.35IriX64ill look later, cot a compile to set in motion at the moment.
17:20.51brlcadi have no idea what you're asking for
17:20.59brlcadbrlman and fbhelp are *commands*
17:21.07brlcadlike mged and rt are commands
17:21.13brlcadthere are lots and lots of commands
17:21.23IriX64scuse while I eat egg :)
17:21.28brlcadyou don't look for them -- they should be in your path
17:23.25IriX64say whatever happened to -doxygen?
17:23.44IriX64deprecated?
17:29.33brlcadyour question continues to fail parsing
17:29.49brlcaddoxygen comments are used throughout the sources
17:37.47IriX64the switch is gone or at least it doesn't appear in the summary anymore.
17:53.39brlcadwhat switch?
17:54.40IriX64--enable-doxygen
17:55.20IriX64its in 7.6.2
17:56.20IriX64and there used to be a line in the summary, i just noticed in 7.8.4 trhat line isn't there anymore.
17:57.19IriX64its also in ./configure --help, let me check 7.8.4
17:58.29IriX64not there anymore.
17:59.04*** join/#brlcad ak_real (i=ak_real@87.249.59.53)
17:59.05brlcadahh, configure option
17:59.13brlcadhelps to be specific
17:59.30brlcadthe switch didn't do anything in 7.6.2
18:00.03brlcadso it was removed until someone actually adds the functionality
18:00.04IriX64let generate a 7.6.2 configure i'll pastebin it for you.
18:00.08brlcadplease don't
18:00.11IriX64ok
18:00.57brlcadi'm quite familiar with what we did and do .. you just had originally said "-doxygen" without even mentioning configure and without that even being the option
18:01.10brlcadi know it was removed, i removed it
18:01.11IriX64sorry
18:01.13brlcadbecause it did nothing
18:01.38brlcadnow, if you're volunteering to make it actually do something .. like run doxygen, that would be sweet
18:01.58brlcadotherwise, "patches welcome"
18:06.25ak_realhello people!
18:06.36ak_reali'm a newcomer...
18:13.11ak_reali would like to take part in GSoC and became a BRL-CAD developer... who should i contact to discuss that?
18:21.34MaloeranIf you have features or improvements in mind to add, I'm sure brlcad will welcome good patches
18:26.21archivistlurk in here and join the mailing list
18:31.51ak_realoh thx! where can i find mailing list?
18:32.14``Eriksf.net/projects/brlcad
18:45.24IriX64brlcad ty -M -F0 does nicely.
18:53.26brlcadak_real: you're in the right place.. but have to wait until orgs are announced
18:54.04brlcadwe're not guaranteed a slot, and might not be approved .. we find out later today
18:54.58brlcadthat said, even if we're not approved, there are independent job opportunities available ;)
19:00.45ak_realit is interesting too, because i need some CAD-related practice for my school this summer...
19:02.08brlcadwe are really the only choice for open source CAD, but whether it's a direction google wants to support this year is of course up to them (we never applied before this year)
19:02.40brlcadak_real: what sort of project did you have in mind, and have you seen our ideas page?
19:10.06ak_realyeah, i read it a lot of times :)  i like the idea about BREP operations, because we had geometric modeling lectures at school and it's interesting to try them on practice
19:10.14``Erikhum, halfway down the page "The effectively amounts to..."
19:10.32``Erik(in dual-rep geometry support)
19:12.31brlcadak_real: ahh, excellent
19:12.45brlcadthat's actually one of the most interesting/appealing topics at the moment
19:14.03ak_realit's strong math skills requirement there... i had such skills about 3 years ago, but now i may take a look in some books, am i right?
19:14.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168056670.dsl.bell.ca)
19:14.24``Erikplease to be chmod 775 on directory
19:14.53``Erikmeh, I'll just sudo
19:15.14brlcadall web content is owned by www
19:15.16brlcadsudo -u www
19:18.13brlcadmore than pondering apparently
19:18.55``Erikfor a in `jot 1000` ; do sudo -u www echo "eek, I'm being spied on!" ; done
19:19.32brlcadak_real: pretty strong math skills required .. but yeah, using a book to refesh wouldn't be uncalled for ;)
19:20.43brlcadhaving it evaluate as fast as possible (e.g. real-time) is going to be the hardest part I fear
19:21.11brlcadespecially for arbitrary operations
19:22.20``Erik"Kaleido" ?
19:23.00brlcadhuh?
19:24.42``Erikin doc/IDEAS
19:24.54``Eriklast one with numbered difficulty/time
19:29.10brlcadahhh
19:29.24brlcadjust a random idea
19:30.45brlcadKaleido is a nifty 3D geometry code that generates various mathematical shapes
19:31.50brlcadwould make for a sweet mged plugin for the math types
19:31.56brlcade.g. http://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/data/
19:32.30brlcadhttp://www.math.technion.ac.il/~rl/kaleido/dual.html
19:32.57``Erikhm, neat
19:33.15brlcadwould be even better as a direct primitive that would take those same equations as the parameters
19:33.28brlcadto get all those shapes from one primitive.. sweet ;)
19:33.39ak_realit's time to go to bed for me... see you tommorow... big THX for this warm chat ;)
19:33.53``Eriknight, ak_real o.O
19:33.56brlcadak_real: nice talking to ya!
19:34.06ak_realthx )
19:34.37*** part/#brlcad ak_real (i=ak_real@87.249.59.53)
19:42.24``Erikheh, op-bw, neat
19:44.15``Erikyay, pi day
19:45.03``Erikjust like warm apple pi
19:46.10archivisthome made lemon merangue pie
20:32.31CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (termcap.c tgoto.c tputs.c tputws.c): we don't provide the __RCSID macro that netbsd provided, comment it out.
21:05.41*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.17)
21:06.10brlcadgaaaaaaaah
21:06.16brlcaddamn termlib
21:07.08brlcadthought I had a successful compile last night, but turns out that the impl is based on a slew of functionality that is in BSD libc, not gnu's
21:07.20brlcadso linux is giving major hissy fits
21:38.37louipcwow over 10K downloads / month?
21:38.40louipcwhere is everybody?
21:40.25brlcadthe vast majority aren't devs or otherwise interested in participating apparently
21:41.35brlcadthat's where I believe work on the website and modeler interface would do well to hook lots of folks' interest
21:42.10louipcyeah that's what I just thought. They ran away after a taste of mged.
21:42.20archivistsexy gui would make the real difference
21:45.23louipcand java applets to look at models
21:45.31louipchar har
21:54.31*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669545.dsl.bell.ca)
22:23.23brlcadlouipc: heh, the guy that (mostly) wrote mged actually has that working .. (java applet)
22:24.35brlcadnever took it to a functional state though, just playing around and got some geometry up iirc (like 4 years ago)
22:29.00``Erikbob?
22:31.21brlcadyeah
23:06.55IriX64that little 5-clicks thing does png.
23:08.23IriX64poor ValarQ ... I sent her image after image for a while :)
23:12.15brlcadwhy would you do that?
23:14.14IriX64she asked
23:14.28IriX64so i did (did i screw up?)
23:15.14IriX64you said those pix are gnu licence.
23:17.04brlcadshe probably said "sure" to one image I bet.. and you let the flood gates open
23:17.37IriX64heh a few but i stopped when she asked me why i kept spamming her, thought she was interested.
23:17.57brlcadsee, if it comes to that .. then yes, you screwed up
23:17.59IriX64she turned me on to irssi remember
23:18.17IriX64man shwe was smiling...
23:18.24brlcadi.e. being polite
23:18.41IriX64well whatever i got the message from her :)
23:19.34brlcadone or two images might be interesting, especially if the content was novel/unique/interesting.. beyond that, why would they want 5, 10, 15 images?
23:19.48brlcadespecially when the first ones weren't really interesting
23:20.08IriX64you speak for her do you
23:20.13brlcadi mean, i don't know what you sent.. they might have all been picaso's
23:20.22brlcadof course I don't
23:20.28brlcadi'm speaking in general
23:20.35brlcadjust curious why
23:20.48brlcadbecause I frankly can't see why
23:20.54IriX64she asked and gave me an email address to send it to.
23:20.56MaloeranI'm sorry to intrude, but who is the "her" being mentionned?
23:21.13brlcadValarQ
23:21.20IriX64ValarQ (not sure of gender)
23:21.53IriX64but i took it short for Valarie, although I shouldnt assume i guess.
23:33.52CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/.cvsignore: ignore the generated termcap file
23:34.31IriX64man don't you ever rest :)
23:35.49IriX64err wait what would that make me ;)
23:44.32*** join/#brlcad cad28 (n=52f40aab@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:54.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/ (9 files):
23:54.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: revert the NetBSD libtermcap library. there are too many dependency woes
23:54.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: (getcap, db, fgetln, strlcpy) to make it work cleanly without bringing in all of
23:54.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: db too. it was only working well under the osx/bsd's because everything
23:54.49CIA-7BRL-CAD: happened to be available.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070315

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070315

00:13.05IriX64now instead of e-mailing them to people, I just post them on my blog :)
00:16.01brlcadthat actually works much better.. don't have to wade
00:16.13brlcadi like a few of the shots
00:16.41brlcadwould be cool if you started actually building something
00:18.00IriX64the zeus mobile
00:18.13IriX64gotta plan it first
00:18.36CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/Makefile.am: version is no longer relevant/known again
00:19.17IriX64brlcads clay is bits and bytes
00:21.53CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libtermlib/termcap.c:
00:21.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: make it look for our installed termcap file before it uses the one in etc, since
00:21.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: enabling termlib compilation implies functioning independent. if they want
00:21.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: their termcap file, they can still set TERMCAP or link against their system
00:21.54CIA-7BRL-CAD: terminfo/termcap/curses
00:34.56louipc<PROTECTED>
00:35.12brlcadtrue
00:35.16louipcjove?
00:35.23brlcadyes?
00:35.25brlcadf'ing jove
00:35.34brlcad~jove
00:35.35ibotjove is, like, njs's preferred little editor -- like emacs, but small.
00:35.47brlcadheh, didn't know that
00:35.58Twingy~nano
00:35.59ibotmethinks nano is at http://www.nano-editor.org/, or a DFSG-free alternative to pico, or 10^-9
00:36.14Twingy~gcam
00:36.16ibothmm... gcam is the open source GNU Computer-Aided Machining project, developed by Justin Shumaker, for supporting basic CNC mills by directly exporting g-code to your favorite CNC driver application.  See http://gcam.js.cx/ for details.
00:36.16brlcad~jove is also "Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs"
00:36.17ibotbrlcad: okay
00:36.24Twingyhah
00:37.18IriX64for which horse :) (duck)
00:37.30Twingyyour mom, oh snap!
00:38.11IriX64youd prefer your sisyer my moms a crel ride.
00:39.03Maloeran~universe
00:39.05ibotSpace Strategy game. URL: http://rmi.net/~starkey/Universe/
00:39.29Twingy~42
00:39.31ibotfrom memory, 42 is the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything
00:39.35IriX6442's only half the answer 84 is the full answer :)
00:40.54MaloeranEspecially since the universe is 404 Not found
00:41.12IriX64an http universe interesting equation :)
00:42.15TwingyMaloeran, how long does it take you to raytrace the universe
00:42.47IriX64e=mc2^c2
00:43.19MaloeranNot too sure, I'm still waiting for some rays to come out of a black hole
00:46.26IriX64you're raytracing in reverse then :)
00:47.26TwingyMaloeran, better put some rays on the event horizon to see what's going on with them
00:48.22MaloeranYes, there must be a bug in my graph prep, they seem stuck in an infinite loop
00:49.37Twingyjust rub your feet together on the carpet and touch your ram
00:49.41Twingythat'll get it unstuck
00:59.07IriX64stray photons will too
01:07.44``Erik*pout* this sucks
01:07.49``Erikmy laptop only has 2g ram
01:07.55``ErikI can't model irix64's mom :(
01:08.02Twingyoh snap!
01:16.11IriX64you're using the male model thats why :)
01:16.22IriX64she doesn't have one of those :)
01:17.02Twingyshe has two?
01:17.19IriX64breasts yeah just like you :)
01:17.20Twingyirix64smom.cx
01:17.31Twingydon't make fun of my man bewbs
01:17.45IriX64mine are a c cup :)
01:17.53Twingy...or else I'll you on wendy's mailing list
01:18.04Twingy(dooh dooh doooooo organ music)
01:18.08``Erikheh
01:18.18IriX64means i have to work for a living? no thanks... :)
01:18.26``Erikomfg, wendys mailing list, that's just fucking COLD
01:19.00IriX64not knowing who wendy is i have to bow out but ill let gionnii know :)
01:20.38``Erikirix: of the folk paid by uncle sam.. when we grouse and bitch and generally act disgruntled... that's response to our good friend miss wendy.
01:21.24IriX64uncle sams wife?
01:21.27Twingywithin 24 hours of my transfer taking effect I will be removed from the shackles of her mailing list
01:21.53IriX64shows who really runs the military
01:21.58``Erikheh
01:22.20``Erikehhehheh
01:22.31``Eriky'know
01:22.42``ErikI was doing some computation today
01:23.03brlcadme too!
01:23.22``Erikheh
01:23.59IriX64gotta go... kid needs a ride.
01:24.27``Erikif I sold my house today and moved back to missouri....
01:24.54``ErikI would have like a fucking mansion and a fistful of 'extra' crash
01:25.14``Erikit REALLY makes me think about moving back to hillbilly land and starting my own co
01:25.17``Erik:/
01:25.49Twingyhave to keep in mind if you decide later in life to want to move to a pricey area you'll be dirt poor
01:25.57Twingyso that limits you to like mid west
01:27.04MaloeranOr up in Canada
01:28.56``Erikparts of canuckia, I suppose
01:29.28MaloeranAny idea on what the company will offer, Erik?
01:29.36``Erik'the company'?
01:29.52MaloeranWithin the context of "starting my own co"
01:29.59``Erikheh
01:30.05``Eriknfc
01:30.12MaloeranOkay :)
01:32.10``ErikI can lay code like a mofo, and I can do certain administrative fucntions...
01:32.10``Eriklike finances, uh, I can be hardcore on the financial aspect...
01:32.30``Erikbut the business/marketing/sales shit seriosuly aint' up my alley... I need a face person.
01:32.45Twingyah, so you are brining gillich with you
01:33.00``Erikheh, I d'no about gillich
01:33.15TwingyI would be a bad choice, I'd get bored of ``Erik's company (whatever it was) in 3 years and he'd be screwed
01:33.20``Erikwith appropiate steering, lee is capable there :/
01:33.45Twingyseriously though
01:33.50Twingywhen they fire wendy, you can bring her along
01:33.56MaloeranAhah
01:34.08``ErikI, uh, kinda ment functional?
01:34.35``Eriknot th ekinda person who would bury an endeavor in unnecessary beaurocrocy...
01:34.38``Eriksp
01:34.52TwingyI flew the twin again tonight
01:35.01``Erikawesome
01:35.03Twingythat little toy is addictive
01:35.14``Erikgot someone with a radar gun to clokc you? :D
01:35.17TwingyI am ready to start packing electronics into it now
01:35.28Twingyas long as I can climb vertical that's all that matters :)
01:35.40Twingywill full tanks of gas
01:35.51Twingy*with
01:36.05``Erikheh, vertical climb is an awful lot of unf
01:37.51Twingyfigure it's got about 15 lbs of thrust
01:38.16Twingyprobly 12 actually, fully loaded the plane is about 5-6 lbs
01:38.58Twingydoing an inverted dive with full throttle just rips it up
01:39.16Twingya trainer would snap its wing in a heart beat
01:40.33MaloeranConsidered a solar powered plane yet? :)
01:41.14Twingyalready been done
01:41.26Twingyand those're no fun unless autonomous
01:41.40Twingyand I do that at work everyday
01:41.40MaloeranNot by amateurs flying indefinitely
01:41.47Twingyso no real fun
01:41.59``Erikindefinitly sustainable solar autonmous aircraft would be... interesting
01:42.24Twingyit'd have to be huge to weather the cross winds
01:42.42MaloeranThen send it over the pacific to get you some pictures of Australia
01:43.09``Eriklike that massive nasa cruiser that flexed like a mofo in the wind
01:43.22Twingyif solar efficiency doubles you could charge up lipo's during the day while flying above clouds
01:43.26``Erikthe one that was like a 30' wingspan of solar panels
01:44.18Twingyheh
01:44.26TwingyI have an 1100maH nicad in the twin
01:44.32Twingymy hour and a half of flying tonight used up 200ma
01:44.55Twingyeasily fly that all day on one charge'
01:45.08TwingyI need an 1100 for my xmitter
01:45.23Twingythe hitech sucks through that 600ma in just over 90 minutes
01:45.38Twingythough my triton can charge it up in about 60
01:46.55TwingyI doubt that xmitter is 2W though
01:47.00Twingythey are usualy 500mW
01:48.48Twingyhttp://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNKD7&P=0
02:23.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: gah, I thought I already committed this. traverse into enigma dir, don't just shove everything into the dist, else make distcheck thinks that it's already been configured and aborts.
02:38.27IriX64<PROTECTED>
03:15.55IriX64ill try 7.8.4 tommorrow again.
03:16.07IriX64quite happy with 7.6.2 tho.
03:19.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h: tcl's regex.h header assumes that there is magic being provided by tclInt.h before it's included (for VOID and CONST among other examples) .. so just freaking include it and avoid a make dist error.
03:37.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: vector headers are missing, bad distcheck, no donut for you
03:41.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am svfb.h svfb_global.h): remove the obsolete svfb.h and svfb_global.h headers. they are part of urtoolkit and were replaced by rle_put.h and rle.h respectively.
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03:45.10CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am XtndRunsv.h): remove XtndRunsv.h as well, obsoleted in urt by rle_code.h
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03:59.57brlcaddtidrow_work: workin' late? :)
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05:13.25cad41hello all :)
05:14.14cad41i am in search of help on my mac with brlcad
05:14.23cad41i cant seem to start it
05:15.49cad41anyone alive in here?
05:16.37MaloeranYou have tried running mged? Do you get any error message? I'm no expert on Mac, but it's built on Unix so...
05:16.37cad41i did,and it did not do anything
05:16.48MaloeranIf you start it from a terminal, does it print anything?
05:16.57cad41i am no expert,but can  do some basic linux/unix stuff
05:17.09cad41i cant get it to start at all
05:17.49cad41mike-campbells-computer:~ scottcampbell$ MGED
05:18.03brlcadcad41: type "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged"
05:18.03cad41then i get nothing
05:18.07brlcadwithout the quotes
05:18.24brlcadwith X11 running
05:19.34cad41thank you
05:19.36cad41:)
05:19.55cad41ooops
05:20.34cad41didnt work
05:20.55brlcadyou're running X11?
05:21.00cad41yes
05:21.03cad41made sure of that
05:21.15MaloeranTry to give more information on what isn't working, it's a bit vague
05:21.25MaloeranDoes it print anything in your terminal?
05:21.36brlcadyou typed /usr/brlcad/bin/mged into the xterm window that popped open?
05:21.46cad41it sayd no display name and no $display envoronment variable
05:22.11brlcadah, type it into the xterm window instead of Terminal
05:22.30brlcador run this in Terminal:  export DISPLAY=:0
05:22.34cad41Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable
05:23.08brlcadtype the export line, then retry
05:24.13cad41Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...couldn't connect to display ":0"
05:27.33MaloeranAs an unix but non-mac guy, I would say X doesn't seem to be running
05:29.10cad41ok.i shall double check.thank you for the help
05:32.26brlcadif X11 is running (it's in your /Applications/Utilities folder), there will be a small white window open up in the top left corner entitled "xterm"
05:34.36cad41Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...X Error of failed request:  BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)
05:34.48cad41X is on
05:35.15brlcadahh, Intel Mac
05:35.15cad41<PROTECTED>
05:35.23cad41hahhaha
05:35.23brlcadthere's a bug in apple's X11
05:35.59brlcadcad41: there's a release going up this weekend that will have a fix for that, 7.10
05:36.14cad41from X?
05:36.24cad41or apple?
05:36.30brlcadof BRL-CAD
05:36.35cad41oh LOL
05:36.36cad41i see
05:36.40brlcadwe can work around the problem
05:37.22cad41ahh to be a curious student......at age 40!
05:37.27brlcadX11 fails to talk to Rosetta correctly, so you get that opcode error
05:37.55brlcada quick recompile for Intel fixes it up, or a universal binary
05:38.15brlcadthe other command-line apps still work, but not the gui to mged
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13:17.55Maloeran*nods* Sure, that was just to say that I could perhaps help with the Unix part, not anything specific to OSX
13:21.48tofu``Erik: so looks like it's a no go, off the hook
13:22.25``Erikum, what, the gsoc?
13:26.26brlcadyeah
13:26.53``Erikah well *shrug* so we don't get to spend someone elses money for grunt-work development
13:27.06brlcadpretty much
13:27.49``ErikI think the notion of a 'junior hacker' list is good to have around anyways, so I don't believe generating the document was wasteful *shrug*
13:28.46``Erikeven if no one else picks up on it, I might chew on something during one of my 'brain dead' days, which seem awfully common these last couple of years :/
13:29.39brlcadactually, I thought that the list of rfp was a great page to put together regardless
13:32.24``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/projects/ideas/ others have done it before :D
13:32.24``Erikthe bsd one actually grew out of phk's "jr kernel hacker todo" list
14:09.17brlcadyep, nothing new, I meant more just clearing out thoughts on actual attainable projects that would make a big impact
14:10.50brlcadthe rfp page is actually fairly well ordered towards what is most important at the moment too
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15:40.14CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: handle failed region in nmg conversion
15:48.12CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/configure.ac: cvs BRL-CAD changed libtcl.so to libtcl8.5.so (on fbsd/linux... libtcl85.so on obsd and others)
15:49.28CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: we cope with normals now, so don't have them marked as unused
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16:03.07CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: reorder
16:29.50MaloeranFrom BBC's history, the world's oldest person died at 114 on 29 Jan 07.  On 15 March 2007, the world's oldest person turns 116.  Find the error
16:31.21clock_Died and then raised from the grave, a bit older (from decomposition)
16:31.34clock_happens all the time, see Romeros movies
16:33.32archivistjurnalists are notorious for errors
16:34.04archivistif you want some fun email them about it see if you get it updated
16:34.06clock_maybe the world's oldest person is the journalist
16:34.25clock_and the brain doesn't serve as good as when he was young ;-)
16:49.45``Erikclock: bug 1657171 (rtedge renders bullshit), the png file seems to be truncated? 24709 bytes, MD5 (bullshit.png) = 3ce18b1b378dd81e25c20d1a44f3f3c9
16:49.59``Erik(unless my browser is being retarded, which may very well be)
16:50.43clock_``Erik: URL?
16:50.59``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1657171&group_id=105292&atid=640802
16:54.38CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (Makefile.am rtcmp.c dry/dry.c dry/dry.h): Add a 'dry run' engine to measure overhead and "warm up" the partition manager. Should abate worries about function call overhead.
16:55.56CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: silence overlap reporting
16:57.32clock_``Erik: It's even broken on my disk. I don't know why
16:58.35clock_``Erik: But look at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
16:58.37clock_seach for chimney
16:58.51``Erikalways pimpin' your site ;)
16:59.18clock_And then look at the lower left picture of the five
16:59.36clock_The rtedge picture is just downscaled with image magick, and when you click you see the rt picture
17:00.00``Erikthe original rtedge image isn't available?
17:00.04clock_``Erik: you can see the notches on the downscaled one too
17:00.12clock_I would have to generate it manually
17:00.36``Erikok, I'll just follow your instructions in the pr and see if it looks mucked up to me :)
17:02.47clock_yeah try how long does it take?
17:02.52clock_I'm curious :)
17:03.01``Erikhuh? to render on my machine? or?
17:03.14clock_yes to set up the given version and download and render
17:03.42clock_This is why it's good to have technology completely open
17:03.58``Erikwell, it's tracing now
17:04.14clock_Can you imagine "Hi we are Samsung we are using BRL-CAD to model mobile phone shell but no sorry we can't give you the .g file it's strictly confidential"
17:04.19``Erik1.4 seconds
17:05.07clock_proprietary == Debugging Mission Impossible
17:08.38clock_``Erik: are you getting those notches too?
17:09.29``Erikno
17:09.38clock_``Erik: send me your picture
17:09.42clock_what's your BRL-CAD version?
17:10.07clock_7.8.4?
17:10.17clock_``Erik: clock at twibright dot com
17:10.17``Erik7.9.0
17:10.27clock_``Erik: can you try with 7.8.4?
17:10.40``Eriklemme find a box runnign it, heh
17:10.44clock_To see if it's a bug that was fixed or a bug which doesn't reproduce in your situation?
17:11.11clock_Can I already download 7.9.0?
17:11.18clock_The notches look ugly on the website :)
17:12.24``Erik7.9.0 is the working name for cvs HEAD
17:12.31``Erik7.10.0 should be out 'very soon now'
17:12.59``Erik7.8.0 didn't show the notches
17:13.00clock_they should put the money spent on SDI into BRL-CAD ;-)
17:13.09clock_yes I remember they weren't there before
17:13.15clock_but I wasn't sure
17:13.38clock_BRL-CAD - where the U.S. Army rulez ;-)
17:14.10*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
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17:15.02``Erikhrmmmm
17:22.46IriX64masochist :)
17:23.15clock_``Erik: My machine is LSB first
17:23.48``Erikthe machines I was testing on are mostly wrong endian... opterons
17:24.05clock_opterons are big endians?
17:24.13``Erikno, small endian
17:25.38clock_If you have a big endian machine and 32 bit number x stored in memory addresses 0,1,2,3, how much is (unsigned long)(void *)&x?
17:26.22clock_Is it 0, 3, or 4?
17:27.04``Erikhuh?
17:27.23``Erikbig endian will store 0x11223344 as { 0x11, 0x22, 0x33, 0x44 }
17:27.37clock_that's not exactly an answer to my question
17:28.28clock_``Erik: do you understand C?
17:29.18``Erikyes, sorry, distracted at the moment
17:29.29clock_``Erik: then you should understand my question
17:33.38Maloeranclock_, 0x01020304 on big endian
17:33.38clock_Maloeran: no I didn't say stored as values 0,1,2,3, but in memory addresses 0,1,2,3
17:33.38clock_memory address 0 is when all address bus wires are low. Memory address 1 is one byte higher etc.
17:33.38MaloeranI sure know C and the "in memory addresses 0,1,2,3" is not clear at all
17:33.38IriX64clock_ try sizeof(unsigned long) and sizeof(void*)
17:34.07Maloeranclock_, there's no conversion or byte swapping between considering an integer as pointer or integer
17:34.19MaloeranFor the processor, a pointer is always just an integer anyway
17:34.39MaloeranWell "always" on the majority of platforms, before Erik or brlcad gets pedantic on me :)
17:34.46clock_In other words, do pointer pointing at multi-byte objects in bug endian machines point at the beginning of the object, at the last byte of the objectt, or one byte beyond the end of the object?
17:35.09brlcad:)
17:35.54MaloeranReferences hold the address to the beginning of the chunk of memory, the first byte of your variable
17:36.12clock_Then on big endian machine if you do this
17:36.13clock_long x
17:36.20clock_x=37
17:36.38clock_printf("%d",*(unsigned char *)(void *)&x);
17:36.41clock_it prints 0?
17:37.57MaloeranIt will print 0, yes
17:38.35Maloeran((unsigned char *)&x)[3] will give you 37 if sizeof(long)==4 of course
17:38.50clock_On big endian machines if you want to cast a long object into shorter one (meaningfully), you have to perform a constant addition
17:39.08clock_On little endian, you don't have to
17:39.09MaloeranHum, I'm not following this statement
17:39.22clock_therefore little endian machines are faster and therefore better.
17:39.32MaloeranOh, you mean casting a 64 bits int to 32 bits or so
17:40.01clock_Maloeran: yes, on big endian machine you have to insert one ADD instruction for the [3], so all programs that do such kind of operation run slower
17:40.21MaloeranNot exactly. First, all/most memory references instructions contain an "offset"
17:40.46MaloeranSecond, accessing memory in this manner after a write will trash your cache and stall, you better use instructions for conversion
17:41.20clock_depends on how the cache and pipeline is implemented
17:41.26MaloeranIn some cases though, this could be an advantage, yes
17:41.27clock_if it's implemented with this case in mind, it won't stall
17:41.45clock_It won't trash and stall also in case there is no cache/pipeline, like for example the Z80 processor
17:41.52clock_(which is a little endian machine)
17:42.01MaloeranEheh okay. I usually have amd64 in mind
17:42.13clock_Z80 is turing equivalent to AMD64
17:42.25clock_;-)
17:42.37clock_I wanted to point out the asymmetry between big and little endian machines
17:42.51IriX64turing? nice language :)
17:43.00MaloeranBig endian also has its advantages in certain cases
17:43.01clock_Some people say they are symmetric and therefore there is no inherent advantage and therefore all holy wars are pointless
17:43.38clock_I just showed that there is an advantage, the big endian is theoretically more kinky and the little one smoother
17:43.38clock_Maloeran: it's name being 2 bytes shorter?
17:43.38MaloeranWith a proper instruction set, they really are equivalent
17:43.39clock_3 bytes
17:44.00Maloeranclock_, you could for example search a sequence of bytes while crossing int64_t boundaries
17:44.01clock_To make them equivalent, one would have to define pointer to point beyond
17:44.14MaloeranThat will stall as well but will end up faster
17:44.19clock_Maloeran: what does it mean?
17:44.59MaloeranIf you are looking for a specific sequence of 8 chars, you can just read a single int64_t by incrementing one byte at a time, single comparison to see if your 8 chars are there
17:45.01clock_Maloeran: On little endian I can also seach a sequence of bytes while corssing int64_t boundaries (or any other boundaries) - in a string it really doesn't matter how it's aligned.
17:45.04MaloeranYou can't do that with little endian
17:45.29clock_Maloeran: you mean read each byte in memory 4 times?
17:46.04clock_sorry 8 times for all overlapping possibly unaligned int64_t's that contain that memory byte?
17:46.23MaloeranYes, the memory accesses would be very much non-aligned
17:47.31IriX64brlcad: i don't know *why, but the check for opengl functionality from 7.6.2 inserted into 7.8.4's configure.ac works, the one supplied does *not work and i can't figure it out.
17:47.34MaloeranAnyway, these are really details. I have far bigger complains about architectures and ISAs than the endianess :)
17:49.09clock_Maloeran: which?
17:49.58MaloeranThe complete bloat of a 16 bits real mode ISA designed in 1975, extended to 32 bits, to protected mode, to 64 bits, to long mode
17:50.24MaloeranThe SSE mess in comparison to Altivec or Itanium
17:51.15``Erik(back, btw)
17:52.06``Erik(and people who blindly cast/copy to smaller data sizes shouldn't be allowed to touch computers *cough*)
17:52.40MaloeranDarn. Don't look at my optimized SSE code :)
17:53.01clock_Is there any version older than 7.8.4 publicly available?
17:53.13``Erikum, all of them?
17:53.28IriX64think older releases are on sf clock_
17:53.38clock_I could find only 7.8.4
17:53.51``Erik7.8.4 64b on opteron does not exhibit the rtedge issue...
17:53.51clock_oh sorry I meand newer
17:53.58IriX64look for older releases of this project on the download page
17:54.09``Erik(of course, I'm using /dev/Xl instead of outputting to a file... heh)
17:54.24clock_``Erik: I have OpenBSD Pentium III
17:54.29``Erik7.8.4 is the most recent official release.
17:54.40clock_``Erik: output into a file, please
17:55.30clock_``Erik: did I write into the report that the same problem occurs on Linux>
17:55.31clock_?
17:56.40``Erikhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/chimney.png
17:56.59``Erikno, you didn't mention any os/arch at all
17:57.25IriX64wtf how do you get inside it?
17:57.29clock_``Erik: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~erik/chimney.png contains the bug
17:57.33``Erikhmmmmmm, there is some warble at the top, yes
17:57.45IriX64sorry man..
17:58.03clock_``Erik: the 1st, 2nd and 4rd edge from the top
17:58.10``Erikiiiinteresting
17:58.11brlcadthat image has at least two bugs
17:58.26archivistimpossible bolt head on the left of pic
17:59.46clock_brlcad: rtedge in 7.8.4 produces crap
17:59.53brlcadthe "hiccups" on the long rod and the lower ouside horizontal edge of the far beam
17:59.56clock_``Erik: show the image from the 7.9.0
18:01.07brlcadthe bolt heads are also flawed, but that's the depth tolerance issue
18:01.08``Erikoh, now this is VERY interesting
18:01.52brlcadthat almost looks like corrupted framebuffer on some of those edges
18:02.27clock_Whistler orders U.S. Army to design their slopes and U. S. Army uses BRL-CAD to design the slopes. U. S. Army asks "and how do you want to do it?" Whistler says "we want just straight plain downhill slopes". After they prepare the slopes, Whistler gets a flood of thankful letters from snowboarders "Dear Whistler, thanks for the great snowpark!"
18:02.30``Erikheh
18:03.13``Erikcheck this out, if I write to a file and use the display framebuffer at the same time... (-F/dev/Xl), then I pix-fb the .pix file
18:03.16``Erikthey're quite different
18:03.28``Erikthe display framebuffer is correct, the saved one is not
18:03.29brlcad``Erik: if you're debugging that, the -Q option is gold
18:03.43``Erikto rt? or pix-fb? or?
18:03.49brlcadrt*
18:04.24``Erikundocumented, swank :D 'query one pixel'
18:04.28clock_looks like the cards get a bit shuffled on the way
18:04.54brlcade.g. render to framebuffer using -F/dev/Xl, then right click on the bad pixel to get a coordinate .. then rerender with exact same params adding -Q x,y .. will turn on debugging and only shoot that single ray
18:04.58clock_cause it's not pixels zeroed out or set, but they are moved around and the number of black and white ones stays in the right proportion
18:05.10``Erikheh, it's all good, clock, we still have card sorters around here O.o just keep all appendages inside while moving
18:05.11brlcadit's documented in rt's manpage
18:05.15clock_and the corruption is local
18:06.10clock_aren't two processes writing into one framebuffer at once and not getting the things quite right?
18:06.13brlcadahh.. so -o with -F *is* corrupting.. that's a new bug
18:06.27``Erikwell, -o is corrupt either way
18:06.30``Erik-F is not
18:06.35brlcadeven by itself?
18:06.38``Erikyes
18:06.54brlcadhmm
18:07.29clock_Does 7.9.0 do the bug too?
18:07.30brlcadlooks like random off-by-1 fseek errors
18:07.40``Erikyes, head still does it
18:07.48clock_brlcad: but it's vertically off by 1
18:08.06``Erikit's army code, clock, it seeks up and down, not left and right :D
18:08.12clock_lol :)
18:08.32clock_push ups up and down?
18:08.37``Erikin soviet america, buffer fseeks you
18:08.56clock_soviet america == Santa Monica?
18:09.01clock_Soviet Monica?
18:09.06brlcadideally, there should be no fseek's with -o .. that's broken inherintly
18:09.30brlcadmakes things like -o /dev/stdout | pix-png unhappy
18:09.41clock_Maybe the tape reels are lose?
18:10.34clock_I'm leaving for a gym
18:11.00IriX64hi i'm gym :)
18:11.02clock_have fun with broken pictures
18:11.10clock_cu later
18:19.41``Erikok, uh
18:21.33``Erikthat ... heh, yeah, more proof that the hell project will never be scalable. what was that boy smokin' when he write this?
18:51.42``Erikman, I got a fix, but I so don't want to commit it
18:51.43brlcadwhat was it?
18:52.27``Erikwhen it writes to the FB, it uses the ap_y value to point to the right place, but the output file write doesn't check to see if things are coming in order, it locks and writes
18:52.39``Erikso when scanlines came out of order, the file got out of order
18:52.51brlcadaha
18:53.26``Erika "po' boy" spinlock solves the output... but it's ugly and will starve some
18:53.29brlcadit should probably "wait" for the next line so it doesn't seek
18:54.05brlcador just wait until everything is done
18:55.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: "po' boy" spinlock to avoid scanlines being written out of order (race condition). Fixes PR 1657171.
18:55.41``ErikI was going to wait and write in frame_end(), but that'd require an extra buffer to hold the results (if there's no FB)
18:56.06brlcadhmm.. good point
18:56.23brlcadthat would be bad for rendering massive images, though I don't think we can do that still for other reasons
18:56.43IriX64``Erik why not just a sem (block the write) to say go ahead and write.
18:57.37IriX64errr its not threaded forget it :)
18:57.44``Erikum, it does block the write
18:57.58IriX64sorry man ill shut up.
18:58.04``Erikbut scanline 2 would be done and get written, then scanline 1 would finish...
18:58.05brlcadit can work by just seeking to the right place.. but would be nice to kill both bugs at once since they're related
18:58.13``Erikthere is no fseek in rtedge
18:58.24brlcadhmm
18:58.28brlcadthere should be
18:58.35brlcadit the app back-end
18:58.41``Erikthere is in view.c, but not viewedge.c
18:58.53``Erikboth use fairly different methods to write the output :/
18:59.44brlcadgah
18:59.46brlcadso they are
18:59.59brlcadbad juju, no twinkie for you
19:00.33brlcadand no way that'd be refactored in time for release
19:00.42brlcadat least and be tested
19:01.15brlcadjust one issue left with btclsh, btw, looking at that now
19:01.33brlcadotherwise we build and run clean across the board it seems
19:02.10brlcadbtclsh halts distcheck, so once that's taken care of, we should be green to go live
19:05.14``Erikbad juju? huh? you disapprove of my q&d hack? :D
19:06.27brlcadno no, i meant "ffs ffs, more code to refactor"
19:06.30brlcadnot your stuff
19:06.41brlcadall the raytracers should be using a library backend
19:06.43``Erikheh, I'm not terribly keen on my hack :/
19:07.01``Erikbut *shrug* yes, they should use common code to write to fb and file
19:09.19brlcadheh, if *you* don't like it.. how you think i'll feel? :)
19:09.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: note refactor for raytracer output
19:09.53brlcadbut hey, one is outright flawed and problematic .. if it fixes something without causing another problem, maybe put it with a note, or keep at it ;)
19:10.10``Erikheh, I d'no, some practices get me more spun up than you... this might be one of them. *shrug* look at the diff, if you have a better approach, knock yourself out :D
19:10.46brlcadalways depends though, whatever ;)
19:11.34``Erikthe pathalogical case is what makes me queasy about it...
19:12.53``Erikif you run n threads and every nth scanline takes longer than the next n-1, it'll tank down to single threaded performance...
19:13.12``Erikor, um, 2 threaded performance
19:13.16``Erik*ponder*
19:13.28``Eriksomewhere between 1 and 2... on a 1024 core machine, that's not so good
19:13.48``Erikhrm
19:14.24``Erikare multiple frame renderings broken up so the frames are serial? or can it start on the next frame before it's done with one?
19:14.59brlcadrun it through the benchmark and see if you get a difference
19:15.30brlcadyou can feed benchmark different tracers, just will get WRONG WRONG .. results, but should still give metrics
19:15.43``Erikheh, I didn't see any difference with chimney, very few came in out of order :)
19:15.50brlcadRT=rtedge benchmark
19:16.11brlcadcould try that with -P1 and -P10 on something like orthus
19:16.29brlcaddisplay the buffer over X.. massive out of orders
19:16.48brlcadu* too
19:30.09IriX64same for the tube start at 768x1024 and go up one line at a time.
19:38.00MaloeranThe raytracer's distributed processing seems to scale reasonably well here, I saturate my home 100mbits network too fast though
19:38.50MaloeranAlthough the graph prep isn't scalling at all just because of some global mutex for memory alloc() & free()
19:40.00``ErikI told you about my cache issues a while back, right?
19:40.33MaloeranHum, I don't think you did
19:42.05``Erikhrm, I could move cache files between machines of the same endian without issue, but to one of a different endian seemed to spin or hang or something... let a fast opteron chew on a big endian cache file overnight...
19:43.24MaloeranOh. Thanks, it's supposed to work, there's a glitch somewhere then
19:45.25MaloeranCan you send me a big endian cache file?
19:48.22``Eriklemme pull a CYA move first, heh
19:49.55MaloeranWhat's a CYA?
19:49.55MaloeranOh, got it, second definition of urban dictionary
19:51.26``Erikhm, lee's not in the office, since he's both the 'official' contract POC and security bitch, I want him to ok sending you a generated file... so'z if someone raises a stink I can point at him instead of getting in trouble :D
19:52.31MaloeranBah. No big deal, send one from home built from any prehistoric big endian machine
19:53.16``Erikheh, and see if it compiles and runs on my ancient g3 laptop? 700 mhz of ppc fury running osX.2 ? :D
19:53.27MaloeranSounds like a plan :)
19:53.41``Erikare things almost ready to move into the BRL-CAD cvs tree?
19:54.07MaloeranThe "integration within BRL-CAD" part is very vague, but...
19:54.20MaloeranI'm thinking I would rather keep a separate CVS
19:54.50MaloeranAnd just push the updates there on a regular basis
19:57.39MaloeranIt seems SURVICE would still like to make the code closed-source with unlimited use rights within the DoD. From what I heard, Lee was fine with the idea for a moment... and the situation changed somehow
19:58.24MaloeranIt would allow Survice to fund, since the ARL won't pursue, so it might have been better for everyone. I really need a break from raytracing though
19:59.21``Erikhrm *shrug* I'm just trying to make sure everything is buttoned up and delivered in the next couple weeks :)
20:02.57``Erikbrlcad: on a fbsd 4core opteron, it went from 15874 vgr's to 15750, so a 0.8% hit for correct #'s... there might be that much wiggle in just benchmarking alone *shrug*
20:03.44``Erikrt.run:*vgr somemachine.arl.army.mil 25723.68   17316.87        15971.53        14880.22        21288.39        61.55   15873.70
20:03.44``Erikrtnew.run:*vgr somemachine.arl.army.mil 25149.83        17474.88        16003.12        14591.12        21216.13        64.19   15749.87
20:05.06``Erikhrm, no, wait... heh, I had naughtiness to expose the bug better still plugged in... running again...
20:05.56``Erik(400 threads instead of 4)
20:13.47CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): add support for folding a vector into a single value. make the default constructor assume aligned data.
20:15.47``Eriknew VGR is 15563, so 2% hit for 'correctness'
20:16.06CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: implement the bounding volumes in C++, and move the definition to g_nurb.cpp
20:19.51CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: implement the bounding volumes in C++, leaf nodes point to faces in brep model. add support for implementation of goldsmith and salmon's bvh heuristic (not completed).
21:03.44*** join/#brlcad cad74 (n=50aba2f5@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:13.40CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rt/rt.c: add "line of sight" depth
21:15.11CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: Segment building (punty). Fixed "null region" error.
21:24.56``Erikit commits the code or it gets the hose again
21:36.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168048430.dsl.bell.ca)
21:55.49Twingyfig newtons
21:56.16Twingythey obey the first law of physics, now to test the 2nd
22:20.14*** join/#brlcad cad67 (n=45ff7061@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:20.56cad67test, ignore.
22:26.04IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php  <=== anybody know whats wrong with this?
22:27.14louipc:D
22:27.22IriX64:)
22:28.03``Erikum, yeah, I know what's wrong with that
22:28.08``Erikyou pasted the 'submit' page, not the result page
22:28.14``Erikthat's what's wrong :D
22:28.25IriX64ermf
22:29.04IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/396664
22:29.07IriX64try that.
22:33.06``Erikusually, C macros don't have semicolons
22:33.21``Erikbut that looks legal to me *shrug*
22:33.26IriX64trying to redefine that to a ;
22:33.52IriX64haven't really exercised it.
22:33.59``Erikthen why are you asking what's wrong with it? heh
22:34.17IriX64im patient enough to wait till this compile is done :)
22:34.28IriX64just doesn't "look" right.
22:35.30``Erikincluding semicolons looks odd
22:36.07``Erikbut a=3;;;;;; is legal C
22:36.22louipcjust empty blocks eh?
22:37.26IriX64all i get is a warning that bu_debug is redefined not identically so it should work.
22:37.41IriX64took out the if else condition to test
22:38.46``Erikif you're mucking around with BRL-CAD source code, then yes, there is a problem... if you put that in your own stuff, ... *shrug*
22:38.57IriX64my stuff
22:39.16``Erikthen why are you using the bu_ prefix?
22:39.35IriX64heh thought of you if you don't already ahve it.
22:41.15IriX64anyway its probably inferior to yours but it too is yours if its useful.
22:41.54``ErikI may be going out on a limb here, but I think everyone with commit access to the project has written that line of code before...
22:42.25``Erikand bu_debug is an int flag, so you can switch it on and off without recompiling everything
22:42.41IriX64as i said inferior to yours
22:42.45``Erikline 1252 of include/bu.h
22:43.06``Erikfollowed by the flag defines
22:44.31IriX64err 1252 points me to parse.c
22:44.56louipceh?
22:45.05IriX64bu.h?
22:45.42IriX64line 1252 says parse.c in a comment block
22:46.34``Erikhm, 1252 in cvs head...
22:46.51IriX64man no cvs here
22:47.09IriX64source tarball
22:47.10``Erikbrlcad keeps mucking with it, heh
22:47.14IriX64ah
22:47.21``Erikit's in there, just use your editors search functionality
22:47.46IriX64i will ill prollly learn something from it for which i thank in advance.
23:38.24IriX64thats a debug system not an aid :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070316

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070316

00:04.20IriX64wish you could see my screen, I attached to X and it came up and havoc is there, but ogl still gives me a segmentation fault when i attach to it, sigh.
00:06.02IriX64hah it rt'ed
00:06.38IriX64where does it go? nothing on the graphics screen.
00:19.54IriX64ill get back to you.
00:23.46``Erikheh, I tend to ignore ogl and use Xl ...
00:24.02IriX64man it....should work
00:24.25``Erikon modern equipment, X stomps the living crap out of ogl for raytrace results...
00:24.45IriX64based on what hardware?
00:25.22IriX64my geForce runs at 1g
00:26.10IriX64well 1.2 but the screen can't keep up (flickers)
00:30.49IriX64what did you guys change?
00:30.59IriX64in 7.6.2 it comes up fine.
00:38.38deltazapIriX64: is that apache one of the 'hush hush' files or an example file?
00:40.32IriX64huh? just something i was compiling
00:40.42deltazapah
00:41.05IriX64whats a hush hush file?
00:42.07deltazapwell, i hadn't seen that before
00:42.17IriX64ah
00:42.25deltazapbut then again, i still have difficulty looking at the included examples :P
00:43.00IriX64as they told me, the usual method is to do a tops to examine the database, then do an e "something"
00:48.28deltazapoh great, i need to middle click in this tutorial :(
00:48.37deltazapi've only have one button
00:49.07deltazap:P
00:50.50IriX64cut it in two :)
00:51.03IriX64err 3
00:51.40deltazap:P
00:51.40IriX64which tutorial are you at?
00:51.49deltazaplesson 6
00:51.54deltazapi just started the other night
00:52.48deltazapoh, volume 2
00:52.56IriX64what does that one show you how to produce (im way behind)
00:53.01deltazapthe goblet
00:53.30IriX64be sure to specify bill of materials that Gold must be used :P
00:53.50deltazaphaha
00:55.04deltazapafter working with mged for a while, i realized tab completion would be nice :)
00:55.44IriX64put it in ... be a contributor (unlike me)
00:56.11deltazapi'd have no clue how to implement that
00:56.30IriX64examine tops20
00:57.09IriX64up arrow works tho
00:58.02deltazapif i make an object (primative), how can i change it's properties later
01:08.54``Erikone button? a ma
01:08.55``Erikmac?
01:09.38``Erikevery bit of ARL data irix64 has access to is an "open source", nothing "hush hush"
01:10.23deltazap``Erik: yes
01:11.35deltazapi'm guessing the little bit of problems that i have with some of the compositing of the framebuffer with the wireframe is because of apple's x11 as well
01:12.35``Erikthe ctl/option/apple keys modify clicks so you can get 3 button activity with a 1 button mouse
01:13.22``Erikoddly enough, mac is probably the MOST supported os... the 4 heaviest developers at the moment all use macs as their destop
01:13.41deltazapi kept trying ctrl-click, but t kept zooming out on me so i thought it wasn't working in x11
01:13.44deltazapoh, that's funny :)
01:14.02``Erikapple+click will zoom in option+click will rotate
01:14.05``Erikiirc
03:21.33brlcadthere are no hush hush files floating around anywhere
03:22.05brlcadno geometry, no images. period.
03:22.48brlcaddeltazap: tab-completion would be nice .. i.e. usual readline support
03:23.22brlcadyou can edit geometry after creating by a couple ways.. there's the Edit->primitive selection option in the menu as well as several ways on the command line
03:23.57deltazapah, ok
03:24.05deltazapone more question
03:24.17deltazaphow can i render an image so i can use it elsewhere
03:31.07brlcaddeltazap: on the mged command line, rt -sSIZE -o filename.pix  or on the raytrace control panel under "Destination" you can put a filename
03:31.28deltazapah, i see :)
03:31.53brlcadpix is a raw image format, not useful in most image tools, so you'd then want to run pix-png outside mged (e.g. pix-png myimage.pix > myimage.png)
03:31.54deltazapand i just found the export RT Script
03:32.10deltazapi've messed with pix-png once before
03:32.27brlcader, pix-png -sSIZE myimage.pix > myimage.png
03:33.08brlcadwhen/if you set a size, the size has to be used on all the pix* tools, else tool defaults to 512x512
03:33.32deltazapah, ok
03:33.46brlcadfyi by default, rt will make pix files read-only so you have to rm -f filename to delete or chmod them
03:46.12deltazapah, thanks :)
03:46.48brlcad(common newbie issue) ;)
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10:55.50CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: POSIX's fmax added
10:58.09CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: missing return statement added
11:07.25``Erikblargh
11:11.24*** join/#brlcad jack- (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl)
14:23.20CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_metaball.c: disable the "big bounding sphere" in plot as it confuses users.
14:24.06*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54874ee6.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:52.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c:
14:52.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: Fix bug that caused a segfault when the last metaball point was deleted.
14:52.25CIA-7BRL-CAD: Fixed display when no point is selected. Removed debugging bu_log.
15:35.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/typein.c: fix an off by one error in metaball prompting.
17:07.33*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168048679.dsl.bell.ca)
17:16.51IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/397655   benchmark, anybody interested?
17:20.40brlcadthose numbers are looking much better
17:29.05MaloeranWhat's the hardware?
17:33.22IriX64amd64
17:33.30IriX64model 3800+
17:33.37IriX641g mem
17:35.29MaloeranMy 8 cores Xeon only seems to be 3.5 times faster, though I guess it does not scale too well
17:36.43MaloeranOh the 3800+ is a X2 of course, dual-core
17:38.23MaloeranActually, my build is not optimized
17:38.51IriX64my is but debug is in there
17:40.21IriX64i did nothing to your data, all is as you gave me.
17:40.35brlcadMaloeran: not the same comparison either
17:41.05Maloeranbrlcad, it depends what you mean by "shader". It's presently an user callback
17:41.14brlcadthe benchmark images have other characteristics like scene-lights, various shaders, recursion, that all affect the rtfm number
17:41.51brlcadi mean like for actual image generation -- rfdemo level support for making pretty pictures with various settable material properties
17:42.04brlcadnot just the libraries capacity to have them, but their existence :)
17:42.24MaloeranAh, so you mean actually writing the shaders :)
17:42.55MaloeranYes, I really plan to do that since... about an year. I presently feel I terribly need to take a break from raytracing
17:43.52MaloeranThe old demo had dancing lights code that could be imported without too much trouble, although it wouldn't support distributed processing or frame buffering
17:47.13MaloeranWorking alone for 8 months on something without cooperation or collaboration is really demotivating, I guess that's why it's called "work"... It's difficult to maintain focus against other projects that involve cooperation and teamwork
17:54.51brlcadMaloeran: yep, to be expected some -- variety is the spice of life!
17:55.30brlcadwhy do you think I also work on BZFlag? :)
17:55.42brlcadand other open source projects for similar reasons..
17:55.53Maloeran:) What is BZFlag? I have other projects as well
17:56.14brlcadyou've never played bzflag?
17:56.33MaloeranBut I think I'm really tired of raytracing at this point, I solved all problems on paper 1-2 years ago and it now has no appeal whatsoever. There are times I think I feel physical pain when I force myself to work on it
17:56.50IriX64BZFlag=get to work, the boss is on the way? ;)
17:57.06brlcadit's a game .. one of the most popular open source games ever actually, been around for more than a decade, continues to be developed and continues to gain popularity actually unlike a lot of games
17:57.12MaloeranOh BZFlag, I read about it, I haven't tried
17:57.25MaloeranVery nice project
17:58.11IriX64reminds me of quake:)
17:58.22brlcadthat's where the other half of my time goes
17:58.30IriX64heh
17:58.39brlcadwhen the commits aren't flowing in here, it's probably because i'm working on bzflag
17:58.42MaloeranI have asked Survice if I could only work part-time for a little while, put my mind on new problems and stuff I like
17:58.46brlcador i'm out rowing ;)
17:58.46MaloeranEheh great
17:59.57MaloeranI'm starting to really like climbing, even in a huge interior gymnasium
18:00.33IriX64good thing rounds a shape or i would be out of shape :)
18:01.29IriX64ill be back when the builds finished.
18:02.31MaloeranAnd my unsafe ( -ffast-math, etc. ) hand-picked optimisation for the BRL-CAD benchmark is now 9 times faster than IriX64's, that's more like it :}
18:03.38brlcadyeah, it would be nice if some more aggressive flags were added during configure
18:04.42brlcad-ffast-math is particularly problematic on some platforms, but there are other useful ones that should be added like the alignment flags
18:05.06brlcadand arch-specific -mcpu style flags
18:15.19*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:20.00Maloeran-mcpu has been deprecated long ago, it's -mtune these days
18:20.57brlcadyep, hence style
18:21.25MaloeranI like how it says I'm 19594 times faster than the reference, it shows the age of BRL-CAD :)
18:23.57brlcadyeah, one of the very first actually reported 1 ;)
18:24.23brlcadrunning a ray-trace could take days
18:24.38dtidrow_workisn't VGR dead now?
18:24.46brlcadyeah
18:24.55brlcadchuck has her platters sitting in his office
18:25.32dtidrow_workthought it had gotten retired some time ago
18:26.40IriX64Maloeran: does rt discriminate between colors?
18:27.09IriX64heh a red thread a green thread ...
18:28.43IriX64rgb all you need? wait... maybe 256 colors, = 256 threads?
18:35.18IriX64just spectulating.
18:36.25MaloeranYou could theorically shoot different wavelenghts independantely, for even greater realism, but I never heard anyone doing that and BRL-CAD sure doesn't
18:37.02Maloeranindependently, rather
18:37.11IriX64was wondering where it would be usefull
18:38.58IriX64would be difficult to co-ordinate the rays, unless you had the thread report hit/miss or something
18:39.07MaloeranFor photo-realistic rendering of scenes with complex transparent mediums with non-parallel surfaces ( glass prisms )
18:39.25brlcadbrl-cad does shoot ranges of wavelengths in libmultispectral
18:39.32IriX64heh true color :)
18:39.34MaloeranOh? Neat
18:40.30brlcadmore of the overall everything including the kitchen sink approach
18:40.59IriX64heh the doitall approach, as opposed to the doitoit :)
18:47.05IriX64mmm rt glitches every 20 seconds to 50% cpu, you're good.
18:47.56IriX64ahh now its got something to do iguess its at 99%
18:53.40IriX64430mb ram, dunno how much of that is rt
18:53.51IriX64wait i will
18:54.05IriX6415.984k
18:54.14IriX6415,984k
18:54.28IriX64steady good job.
19:08.01IriX6441,624, looks like it grabbed another chunk.
19:08.37IriX64its climbing :(
19:10.15IriX644k chunks
19:22.45CIA-7BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (tri.c tri.h Makefile.am adrt/adrt.c): beginning of triangle caching
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19:41.51dlican I specify a nonbending start point with pipe?
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21:44.27IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/398002   < === optimizide, all debug off bench
21:44.43IriX64optimized too
21:45.04IriX64really?
21:45.19``Erikalignment issues
21:45.27IriX64i usually leave it on for the protection it affords as said
21:46.07IriX64err help it affords in tracking stuff.
21:46.22IriX64protects me against my self.
21:46.28``Erikthe further you get form "./configure", the less we can help you
21:46.32``Erikfrom
21:46.43IriX64heh ive learned that lesson
21:47.25``Erik(now people who really know their shit, the further they get from ./configure, the more they can help us... but...)
21:48.08IriX64configur has a plethora of options, sometimes i play with them ... just to see.
21:49.02``Erikslews of options, many don't show up with --help... I tend to call the script two different ways... so those two ways... on those arch/os platforms I use... tend to work
21:50.09``ErikI'd imagine brlcad has a couple different ways he calls the script, and on different arch/os platforms
22:01.26clock_``Erik: now the wiggly outlines in rt-edge are fixed, having been caused by a race condition, aren't they?
22:01.56``Erikyeah, how many cpu's is your p3?
22:02.34IriX64``Erik, just to set the record straight i'm not one of the guys you mentioned, I'm just a hacker, i do best starting with something that already exists.
22:03.36``Erikheh, I think I have a pretty good feel for what your abilities are, irix64... I would be highly surprised if you seriously schooled brlcad or me... :) but it's all good *shrug*
22:05.04``Erikclock: the patch and comments are pretty straight forward... in painting to the frame buffer, it used the correct y value to "seek", where writing to a file just blasted the next scanline done, whether or not it was out of order...
22:05.16``Erikentire scanlines were swapped :)
22:06.08``Eriktweaking things so I had 400 threads on a 4 core box made teh issue a lot more consistent, and doing both display framebuffer (-F/dev/Xl) and pix-fb on the output file side by side made it obvious
22:22.18MaloeranAh, seems I'll be in Maryland around next Friday
22:22.27``ErikO.o eh?
22:22.43``Erikthe 'completed contract' meeting? or setup for something new? :D
22:25.01MaloeranApparently, a demonstration of RF to Justin and friends
22:26.06IriX64for some reason i think it affects X too, not entirely sure yet.
22:26.39``Erikaight, interesting.... I haven't heard of that O.o heh
22:27.03IriX64:)
22:38.00clock_brlcad: and when will a version with the fix come out?
23:25.32IriX64That math library is intense.
23:30.37IriX64brlcad: how big is your mged.exe?
23:32.42IriX64heh ``Erik pipes up and says give it a rest dude, there's always somebody with a bigger one :)
23:37.24IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/398133    <-- just so you know i put the magic thing back.
23:37.36IriX64now to fix it.
23:46.58IriX64dudes... your comparing your magic number to the *pointer?
23:50.14IriX64:)
23:52.50IriX64I'll simply use if( (_magic) != (_magic)) error out ;)
23:56.11IriX64gotta go walk the k9 bbiab.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070317

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070317

00:21.19MaloeranSo I'll have to be in Maryland next friday. Is there any snow left down there? Is the weather clean for bicycles?
00:23.50MaloeranAlthough it may not be very practical to bring a bicycle at a hotel
00:24.48Twingythere is about half an inch of sleet on the ground
00:25.23MaloeranYuck.
00:28.58Twingydefinetly no flying this weekend
00:29.08Twingy*definitely
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01:06.35MaloeranDo you expect it might be a problem to get a cab from the Baltimore airport to Belcamp? Is it too far away?
01:07.32brlcadit's about a 45-65 minute drive, cost about $50 iirc
01:08.14brlcadthere are vans, taxis, shuttles that run all the time
01:08.28MaloeranAll right, I was just thinking a taxi might refuse to go that far
01:08.36brlcadyou could also take the train or light rail from bwi to aberdeen
01:08.48brlcadnah, they do it all the time
01:08.54Maloeran*nods* Great
01:09.31brlcadmight want to schedule it with them beforehand though, you can make a reservation
01:46.18*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168051206.dsl.bell.ca)
01:47.48IriX64memcpy(*.exe,NULL,sizeof(*.exe);
01:47.55IriX64;)
01:48.02IriX64my distclean
01:49.14IriX64) ... happy :)
01:49.45``Erik>&1 | grep -v IriX64
01:49.48``Eriklife moves on O:-)
01:50.01IriX64sometimes too fast :(
01:53.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas3-sudbury98-1168051206.dsl.bell.ca)
01:53.51IriX64_sorry to have left so rudely.
01:54.05``Erikyou're still here, dude
01:54.09``Erik:D
01:54.16IriX64_heh i twinned :)
01:58.16IriX64better
01:58.18IriX64?
01:59.43MaloeranWorse!... IriX64s are like duct tape, one never has quite enough
02:00.14IriX64ill see about mitosis then :)
02:02.16IriX64so ./configure is the preffered approach?
02:05.39MaloeranPrefered approach for what?
02:08.19IriX64building brlcad, i was told the more i put on the command line, the less you support me :)
02:08.35IriX64s/configure/command
02:09.21MaloeranWhat's your processor?
02:09.37IriX64AMD64-model 3800+
02:10.23IriX64which uname option would you like to see?
02:10.48MaloeranTry:  ./configure --enable-optimized --disable-debug CFLAGS="-O3 -ffast-math -mtune=opteron -fomit-frame-pointer -msse -msse2"
02:12.40IriX64so? its configuring.
02:13.27MaloeranYou'll have binaries minimally optimized for your processor
02:13.35IriX64checking single-precision floating point tolerance... 0.00000000000000000000e+00
02:13.36IriX64checking double-precision floating point tolerance... 0.00000000000000000000e+00
02:13.41IriX64oh yeah?
02:13.58IriX64my way gives me numbers :)
02:14.42``Erikthems ain't right numbers
02:14.53IriX64wait
02:17.01IriX64checking single-precision floating point tolerance... 1.08420217248550443401e-19
02:17.01IriX64checking double-precision floating point tolerance... 1.08420217248550443401e-19
02:17.01IriX64checking whether floats conform to IEEE 754... no
02:17.01IriX64checking whether doubles conform to IEEE 754... no
02:17.09IriX64sorry bout the paste.
02:25.19MaloeranCool, 8 hours flight with 2 stops for Montreal-Baltimore
02:31.40IriX64Maloeran: I'm uneducated what the heck is an opteron?
02:31.49dliMaloeran, enough time to compile openoffice from source :(
02:34.01MaloeranIf only so, dli, my laptop battery lasts a hour. I'll have to stock up on batteries
02:34.23MaloeranIriX64, server-class variant of your processor, optimisation rules for GCC are the same
02:34.54IriX64ty i learned something... you (whatever) you learn.
02:34.55dliMaloeran, you mentioned 2 stops, you have chance to plugin and charge
02:44.43IriX64why didn't you tell me my pix weren't displaying on my blog? fixed now if you want to see havoc with 1024 irradiance rays.
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17:06.26Twingyhttp://darkertechnologies.com/projects/darker_biamp/heatsink/biamp_heatsink-12.jpg
17:06.29Twingy^-- made in gcam
17:07.23Twingymade from soda cans too
17:11.36brlcadheh
17:13.10IriX64Twingy, superb, you're a tool and die man?
17:14.04IriX64why do i not get a display with ogl now?
17:15.07IriX64my doing i guess ah well
17:16.15IriX64ermf farkled X too
17:16.45IriX64should be able too...
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17:24.25TwingyIriX64, I didn't make it, randy did
17:24.31TwingyI just made the stock
17:24.59IriX64interesting your gcam is NC stuff?
17:25.17Twingyjes
17:25.22IriX64ermf X comes up ogl coredumps, go figure
17:25.58IriX64I took care of a vax doing train wheels at the plant interesting lathes they have.
17:26.24IriX64mylar forever ;)
17:26.59Twingywait till you see the chip amps he built that go inside
17:27.21louipcnot bad eh
17:27.54Twingyhttp://darkertechnologies.com/projects/darker_biamp/heatsink/biamp_heatsink-11.jpg
17:28.31louipctaking multiple passes for those thin slots?
17:28.45IriX64shaper?
17:28.48Twingyyep
17:28.52Twingycnc mill
17:29.04louipcI guess the tolerance isn't too critical for those
17:30.34IriX64nice machines those can toll down to .0001
17:30.34IriX64err .001
17:30.34louipc.0001 inch
17:30.34IriX64:)
17:30.35louipcis standard
17:30.35IriX64mines old :)
17:30.35louipcfor cnc
17:30.35Twingythe machine will provide 0.00003125 tolerance
17:30.35Twingy1 / (8 * 20 * 200)
17:30.35IriX64Twingy please the stuff i played with was 30 years ago.
17:30.46IriX64and i dont trave in the ms very often unless trouble comes up.
17:30.53IriX64travel too.
17:31.05louipchah I played with a Minimatic 500
17:31.17louipcit had the funkmaster flex logo on it
17:31.24louipcno graphical display
17:31.40louipchorizontal CNC mill, pretty damned old
17:32.13louipcit used taped, but it was fitted for code transfer from a computer so I didn't need to worry about that
17:32.13IriX64we didn't have one
17:32.32IriX64cincinatti or ohio?
17:32.56louipcjapanese
17:34.11louipcyou had to manually calculate the tool radius offsets for that too hahh
17:34.44IriX64pays to take a math course with you're machine shop course :)
17:35.45IriX64man help me here i have a #ifdef IF_OGL with nothing folowwing it.
17:36.14IriX64if_ogl.c line 54
17:36.49Twingyfun, now I can easily make gears
17:37.04IriX64heh make your own bicycle
17:37.51Twingyjes
17:38.10TwingyI will do a spur gear or sprocket tutorial for next release
17:38.23IriX64try a worm gear.
17:42.30IriX64something i'm not groking here if_x has similar but no matching endif or im missing it
17:43.01Twingyworm gear will be easy once I put stuff in for 4th axis
17:43.46louipchmm I've never done a thread in CAM wonder how that would work
17:43.58louipca worm gear is just an acme thread yeah?
17:43.59Twingyuse a conical or a bull nose
17:44.30Twingymake your helix to make threads per inch, like a common 1/4" 20TPI
17:44.49Twingythen figure out if you want a class 1,2, or 3 fit
17:45.22Twingythe only tricky part is getting it mounted correctly
17:45.56louipcactually now that I think about it it would be pretty simple
17:46.27IriX64im all wet
17:47.01IriX64in x ayway you can comment out all if_x with that define:)
17:47.14louipcwell TPI is based on feed/rev, the fit is based on internal/external dia, then all you need to define is angle of approach for the different passes
17:47.58IriX64sigh same for if_ogl
17:52.23Twingyand depth
17:55.29IriX64if you find /dev/ogl do you want or not want mode to be set to 0? (I know squat about opengl) line 717 if_ogl.c
18:04.49IriX64is cygtls a TCL think, anybody know?
18:04.56IriX64thing too
18:44.45louipcbut there are canned cycles on cnc lathes for thread turning
19:25.25Twingybut I don't have a cnc lathe
19:25.31Twingyjust a 4 axis mill
19:36.16Twingypattern tool is done
20:21.04Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/spur_gear.jpg
20:22.22IriX64would it be too much to ask for target physical dimensions somewhere on the screen?
20:22.55Twingythe grid isn't enough?
20:23.04IriX64summary thing
20:23.29Twingyin due time :)
20:23.34IriX64:)
20:24.44Twingyyou would need to use 1/16" end mill for that
20:25.10Twingyotherwise the gear would come out funky looking
20:25.17IriX64dont know the mill just the computer that drives it.
20:25.41Twingyjes, but the mill requires a cutting tool
20:25.50Twingyand it needs to be the right size
20:26.03IriX64ah got it i call it a bit
20:26.42IriX64mmm thats a lathes tool tho right?
20:26.50IriX64mine i mean.
20:26.51Twingylathe uses a cutting tool
20:27.02Twingymill uses and end-mill
20:27.12IriX64got it
20:27.28Twingythink I will cut a few gears when I get my cnc back
20:27.37Twingybroach them as well
20:27.46IriX64broach?
20:27.51Twingyyes, broach a key way
20:28.08IriX64don't know the term broach
20:28.30Twingycan either broach a key way and 2 collars, or broach a key way with a set screw
20:29.33TwingyI wonder if I can make gears for my servos with 1/50" end mill
20:30.17IriX64thats a fine tool
20:30.20Twingythat gear is 3,651 lines of g-code
20:30.46IriX64you just punch that out and feed it to the machine?
20:30.54Twingyyep
20:31.10Twingyrun it with a 1/16" at 1.5 ipm 6.5k rpm
20:31.20Twingyprobly take 3 or 4 hours to cut
20:31.55IriX64the bigger the end mill the longer right? do i understand that?
20:32.01Twingynope
20:32.08IriX64other way?
20:32.11Twingyyou can buy any end mill imaginable
20:32.39Twingyyou will snap longer ones easier if you don't know what you are doing
20:32.51Twingyor damager your machine if > 1/8" or so
20:32.54Twingy*damage
20:33.00IriX64i meant longer timewise
20:33.09Twingydepends on the steppers
20:33.13Twingyand the spindle speed
20:33.30IriX64your g-cam calculates those obviously
20:33.42Twingyif you are 40k rpm, vertical mill, with 800oz-in steppers and coolant, cut through Al like butter
20:33.54IriX64ah
20:33.55Twingynope, I let the machinist put what they want in
20:34.22Twingydifferent speeds give different finishes
20:34.31Twingyalso do certain wear and tear on the end mill
20:34.41Twingyfor a production run you tune this to what you need
20:35.08Twingyafter you machine stuff for a while you can usually guess with in 10% of what the most optimal value will be
20:35.15Twingyfor that specific machine
20:35.21Twingyfor a different machine, totally different
20:35.31IriX64get to know your equipment huh?
20:35.36Twingythe taig, yep
20:35.48Twingythis isn't like ray-tracing
20:35.55Twingywhere you press a big red button and it does its thing
20:36.15Twingyit's a little more intimate than that
20:36.18IriX64is g-cam what am i trying to say here whats the status of g-cam?
20:36.28IriX64readiness wise
20:36.32Twingyit's stable
20:36.37Twingyas of last 2 releases
20:36.39IriX64good job
20:36.46Twingynot bug reports as of last release
20:36.47Twingy*no
20:36.53Twingyjust feature requests
20:37.08IriX64enjoy :)
20:37.11Twingygot a $32 donation last night
20:37.46Twingynow I will start building up a part library
20:37.47IriX64people used to send me donations for my not-for-profit bs years ago
20:37.55IriX64*bbs
20:38.06Twingygears, sockets, mounts, etc
20:38.53Twingymake them available on the wiki
20:38.53Twingywould be nice to see a generation of open source hardware made available in gcam
20:38.58Twingyelectronics and mechanical
20:56.34clock_Twingy: I have some open source hardware but unfortunately it isn't done in gcam http://ronja.twibright.com
20:57.06clock_Twingy: make a clanking replicator :)
21:01.53IriX64often though...wifi printers and scanners and such .. links
21:01.58IriX64thought too
21:02.31IriX64use it or lose it :)
21:08.26IriX64biscuits too
21:28.52IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/?_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaHandler=TWljcm9zb2Z0LlNwYWNlcy5XZWIuUGFydHMuUGhvdG9BbGJ1bS5GdWxsTW9kZUNvbnRyb2xsZXI%24&_c11_PhotoAlbum_spaFolderID=cns!BFB9E7E9DA2BD02D!113&_c11_PhotoAlbum_startingImageIndex=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_commentsExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentExpand=0&_c11_PhotoAlbum_addCommentFocus=0&_c=PhotoAlbum
21:30.07louipcthat's one long assed link
21:30.19IriX64yeah sorry
21:30.32louipcwhy don't you set up an httpd to share photos?
21:30.58louipcor maybe one of those photo specific sites
21:31.01IriX64don't have a static ip louipc
21:31.26IriX64suppose i could email everybody :)
21:31.34louipcIriX64: no-ip.org
21:31.46IriX64ty ill check right now.
21:33.03louipcodd that link doesn't look like it actually give a specific photo
21:40.36IriX64gives me one
21:42.47IriX64why is that link so long?
21:44.00IriX64try this www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
21:48.30louipcyeah thats much better
21:53.42IriX64ty
22:07.37IriX64there a section for brlcad only :)
22:15.06IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
22:55.28IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad/BRL-CAD   <--- latest build
22:57.38IriX64sorce anybody, i'm feeling like a sorceror ;)
22:58.36IriX64those can all be individually or globaly extraced.
22:58.51IriX64extraced too
22:59.02IriX64err extracted
23:03.45IriX64updated, those views are all functional
23:03.58IriX64ill shut up now
23:54.43IriX64say is it all right to show those to others outside this channel, would give you good press.
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070318

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070318

00:12.18IriX64you might have told me metaball support is .... thin :)
00:53.27IriX64archivist: how did you do with that tutorial?
01:22.21IriX64cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wall -pedantic -std=c99 -pipe"     <--- in /adrt/libtie, those flags did *not come from configure
01:24.33IriX64man... makefile.am AM_CFLAGS= those hard coded.
01:28.30IriX64gone...next run should be clean, for now ill edit makefile
01:58.48IriX64adrt pffffffft :(
02:08.44Twingy=)
02:36.23IriX64heh Twingy: how to make a little splash in a big pond ;)
02:36.24IriX64say is the source to the sparc version available, some stuff id love to steal from there.
02:36.24IriX64i'm dead, i don't have gl/device.h :(
02:36.24IriX64ill shut up now
02:42.55IriX64asus makes a fine motherboard but they're a little to quick to deem stuff "legacy", they took the b floppy out of their bios :(
03:06.35brlcadlike an energizer bunny
03:11.59IriX64prefer the mallory bunny :)
04:31.13MaloeranI haven't had a floppy drive in 8 years, people still use these?
04:31.26IriX64i do :)
04:31.57MaloeranEven in the days of 33.6 modems, it was still faster to dump the data remotely by zmodem than put in on many, many floppies
04:32.20IriX64i have a treasure trove of old stuff
04:32.36IriX6433.6 try 300 baud or 110 :)
04:35.17MaloeranI grew up with 486 66mhz, video cards of 1mb memory with VESA 2.0, these were nice days
04:35.47IriX64if you didn't throw it out youll still have nice days
04:35.58MaloeranI liked how most of the hardware understood standard interfaces, and you could do pretty much anything directly from DOS, including writing OSes from scratch
04:38.35IriX64custom work is usually for ones own self, problem is others take an interest :)
04:50.32IriX64make
04:50.42IriX64sorry.
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16:47.43IriX64rt'ing in each quadrant works nicely, good job people, look in www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad
16:56.25IriX64hah did it got the stryker pix there :)
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20:23.13IriX64is it just me or does everybody have trouble compiling if_ogl in src/libfb?
20:25.41IriX64try rhis in if_ogl.c #define _LOCAL_          gets it to compile here.
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21:58.04IriX64compiles done soons this install is done ill know.
22:10.23IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php    <--ah well still fails but now im more knoledable .
22:10.39IriX64err knowlegable
23:06.55IriX64back to X i quit on ogl (for now) :)
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070319

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070319

00:18.06IriX64err just noticed, never mind the index :) i screwup like that regularly.
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01:58.58IriX64what frequency? :)
02:00.11MaloeranPerhaps to see if there's some bug left? I left it run with distributed processing on 3 boxes for about 36 hours, I'm hoping it's fine
02:40.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/EndgameFramework/Makefile.am: include the defs file so we get additional rules
02:41.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: stub rules so recursion completes cleanly
02:41.36brlcadpossibly
04:19.56IriX64Hah you may have another customer, the local mill has people watching my antics with brlcad.
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16:18.35``Erikand now I'm on vacation for a week, w00t :D
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16:28.46MaloeranErik, send me a big endian cache! You told me that already :p
16:29.02MaloeranIt can't be much to fix, but I need a big endian cache
16:39.33brlcadshould just always write the cache out in network order, then the format is well known
16:41.02brlcadthat's why all the posix routines exist for this :)
16:41.39``ErikI'd need to get approval to send ya that... I like just writing out in network (correct) order... um
16:41.52``Erikrtcmp has a triangle cache file that's held that way... I think it even works
16:41.54``ErikO.o
16:46.42MaloeranNetwork order involves unnecessary byte swapping
16:47.35MaloeranIf graphs are to be synchronized in a distributed processing network, with geometry being constantly modified, avoiding the byte swapping just makes sense
16:47.57``Erikum, depends on what endian your machine is
16:48.36MaloeranI also prefer big endian for obscure reasons, but reality is different
16:54.38``Erikum, it "fails" as part of its regular process :/
16:54.47``Erikwhich is why there's all that setjmp/longjmp crap going on
16:56.13MaloeranAll right, cool
16:58.12``Erikum, have you looked at rtcmp over the weekend? I'm trying to abstract out the BRL-CAD crap in it some to simplify rayforce/rayforce.c
16:58.56MaloeranI looked last week, I'll update
17:02.28``Erikall the librt stuff was removed from adrt/adrt.c and put into tri.c, which does caching out to a file
17:02.53``Erikwhich means all you have to do is cope with a simple linked list with straight xyz float data
17:25.36``Erikhttp://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=1284
17:31.13MaloeranIf I knew any modelling software rather than writing code to do it, I suspect the task would be easier
17:36.14brlcaduhm.. you're reading/writing to disk .. which is usually at least an order of magnitude more time-consuming than any "unnecessary byteswapping" .. which is why it flat out doesn't matter -- if you have a profile that shows otherwise, that would probably be worthy of academic publication
17:37.31Maloeranbrlcad, graph caches are also used for distributed processing synchronisation
17:39.25brlcadi don't think you're stupid, you just make bizzare statements that smell of inexperience or pedantic religion where it really doesn't matter (sometimes)
17:39.43brlcadthink you're quite brilliant actually, novel approaches
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17:40.14brlcadbut i still fail to see how the use of the files/data has any bearing on byte swapping -- educate me? :)
17:40.53brlcadif you have to read disk, and that is the IF .. then byte swapping doesn't matter since 99% or better of your time is spent on an uncontrolled I/O variable
17:41.11MaloeranIndeed
17:41.50brlcadif you're not reading disk or talking about memory mapped stuff that might be optimized to avoid I/O then things can change.. but nothing you've said indicated this
17:41.53MaloeranWhen updating graphs over a network for distributed processing though, any unnecessary work should be avoided
17:42.13MaloeranThe same graph caches are used for disk storage or synchronisation
17:44.35brlcadthere's certainly some disjoint in the conversation, or something you're just not saying perhaps
17:44.50brlcadthat's all fine and well understood -- that doesn't change the nature of I/O
17:45.02brlcaddisk I/O in particular
17:46.09MaloeranOf course, I don't deny that any disk I/O will be a far bigger bottleneck than swapping bytes
17:46.11brlcadhaving it be one encoding in a heterogenous environment is what makes it necessary, else you just punt on portability and only support big/little
17:46.22``Erikor network i/o, even with smokin' fast network
17:46.41brlcadexactly.. that's all utterly dwarfed
17:46.41MaloeranBut during distributed processing, the nodes don't necessary "block" waiting for the data to arrive, they can be kept busy with previously queued work
17:48.25MaloeranThe impact might be small, but it wasn't much more trouble in the code either. I'm sure it will be quickly fixed as soon as I can see a big endian cache
17:48.41brlcader, I wouldn't have imagined that you'd make the processing nodes swap bytes - whatever *actually* reads/writes to disk would
17:49.02brlcadwhich with distributed, would be a different node, so the non-blocking becomes irrelevant
17:49.40``Erikbrlcad, are you in the office today?
17:49.47brlcadthe other point is that hton*() functions aren't just little/big endian -- there are other formats
17:49.59brlcad``Erik: no
17:50.02``Erikbah
17:50.05MaloeranI see, I didn't really consider other formats
17:50.29``Erikhrm
17:50.41``Erikbeen a long time since I've heard of any of the other formats, like 'middle' endian
17:51.45brlcadthis is true, it's a minor consideration, but part of the overall purpose and portability
17:53.56brlcadaside from the other reasons mentioned .. I mean eventually something is effectively doing a write()/read() ..
17:54.34``Erikheh, "bits is bits" at the end of the day, yes :)
17:55.47brlcadi can understand a "don't want to do it", or "don't like it" even, or one of several other reasons, but just not in the namesake of performance
17:56.17MaloeranAs I said, it's just that the processors are not necessarily idle while receiving data from the network
17:57.00MaloeranPerforming byte swapping on network I/O is clearly unnecessary if nodes are of the same endianness
18:00.56brlcaddisk, man .. disk! are these caches only in memory or something (a critical detail failed to be mentioned)?
18:02.32MaloeranWhen doing distributed processing synchronisation, there is no disk I/O involved!
18:02.55``Eriknetwork i/o can be almost as horrible as disk i/o :)
18:03.30``Eriknow with decent hw and drivers (dma) and "zero-copy" networking we see in SOME os's (um, linux, fbsd, and MAYBE solaris?), that's an offloaded task
18:03.32``Erikbut it's still there
18:03.51brlcadyou could have mentioned that earlier (distributed sync has no implication of whether disk is involved) .. though similar holds for network I/O too
18:06.19brlcadand even for in-memory is seriously prematurely-optimizing in a manner that impacts the architecture
18:07.10``Erikalso makes assumptions about the basic paradigms
18:07.12brlcadimho at least, it seems counterproductive to the goal and unnecessarily complicates
18:07.14``Erikum
18:07.35``Erikdoes every node carry a complete copy of the data set? or are nodes specialized?
18:07.49``Erikis this only a hit at the very beginning? or does it happen through "regular processing"?
18:07.49brlcadbut hey, i'm not writing it, so have fun :)
18:07.50``Eriketc
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18:18.31``Erikhttp://www.wreckedexotics.com/newphotos/weird/weird796.shtml
18:18.36``Erikholy crap, the driver survived
18:18.55``Erikat least my dead exotic isn't shown there, heh, yet
18:24.32Maloeran``Erik, all nodes maitain a complete copy of the data set, any changes on the master node is spread on the network
18:25.07MaloeranGraph caches are used to provide or update graphs, so it happens during "regular processing" if dynamic geometry is involved
18:25.14``Erikso if I have 79 gigs of triangle data... *cough* O:-)
18:25.34MaloeranIn a single model? Then you may have a problem :)
18:26.08MaloeranIt just means you won't be able to enable master/slave relationship, instead using "peers" and manage state yourself using different smaller models
18:37.53``Erikmal! didja grab an update of rtcmp?
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20:05.12dlican I label dimensions with brlcad? like in the traditional blueprint
20:25.16brlcaddli: not easily -- that's more of a drafting facility than one specific to solid modeling and (as such) hasn't really been well developed
20:25.28brlcadwould be a great feature to have though, and not too complicated
20:27.37dlibrlcad, yeah, after getting my design, it's a pity that all dimensions are known but not be able to show
20:46.07brlcadnot a great solution in the least, but you could add them manually with an image editor, depending on the purpose
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21:00.15MaloeranErik, your configure script gave me : "checking for rt_prep in -lrt... no" because it doesn't find tcl.  Next, I get  tri.c:234: error: too few arguments to function 'bu_realloc
21:00.30Maloeranerror: 'nmg_bool_eval_silent' undeclared  too
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22:07.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.175)
22:11.23MaloeranThe undocumented and obscure SDL 1.3 CVS sure is hard to figure how to patch N-buffering, they changed the whole video API
22:19.06MaloeranAs far as I can see, they are mostly dropping 2d capabilities, buffer flipping sure is gone
22:51.29MaloeranGrah! Why is ./configure not putting anything in its .h file from a AC_CHECK_FUNCS(SDL_SetScreenSurface) ?   It is found : checking for SDL_SetScreenSurface... yes
23:19.03Maloeran( Solved, deleting the cache did it )
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070320

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070320

02:58.18*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)
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04:23.11leedHello everyone. I want to use brlcad build a 3d model and convert it to ACIS format.
04:23.40brlcadleed: hello leed
04:24.13brlcadyou'll have to use an intermediary format at the moment as there's no direct path
04:24.35brlcadthere is an experimental SAT exporter under development, but it's not ready for even testing use
04:25.21brlcadso you'd have to use one of the export formats: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg
04:26.52leedbrlcad: I have never used brlcad before. I want to whether brlcad can deal with my problem. If the answer is yes, I will learn how to use brlcad.
04:28.14brlcadleed: fair enough
04:28.38brlcadit's a common misperception (that I'm working on addressing with the new website) as to what brl-cad actually is and does
04:28.50brlcadwhere it's strengths and weaknesses and capabilities are at
04:29.22brlcadwe're not autocad in the least for example, nor do we really cater to drafting or other 2D modeling features very well (or at all in some cases)
04:29.43brlcadso, what's your problem?
04:32.52leedI want to build a 3d model and convert to ACIS format. Then I can import it to Gambit.
04:34.05leedI have only use ACIS format so far.
04:36.41leedIf there are some more effective means, please let me know.
04:42.09brlcadwell, that's pretty general requirements actually :)
04:42.21brlcadyou can certainly build 3d models and export to formats that acis will read
04:42.45brlcadthough they will be polygonalized, and you'll have to learn a fair bit of how to model using mged beforehand
04:42.55brlcadthey will, however, be solid models
04:43.40brlcadshame our SAT exporter isn't complete -- that actually integrates well with Cubit
04:44.58brlcadcould possibly get you to be a beta tester for it, though you'd need to acquire a Cubit license to use the binary iirc
04:51.19leedThank you for your suggestion.
04:52.09leedI think I need some time to learn how to use brlcad at first.
04:55.35brlcadhave you downloaded the tutorial series?
04:56.01brlcadthat will take you through some of the basics (and are pretty much required reading to have any proficiency)
04:56.15brlcadand give you an idea of whether the interface can work for you
04:57.04leedI am downloading brlcad-7.8.0_linux_ia32.tgz right now.
05:00.04leedThanks for your help. I get go now.
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13:37.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
13:37.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: add a test for -Wno-non-template-friend so that compilation in openNURBS can be
13:37.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: quelled for behavior that is intended (gcc assumes we might be relying on their
13:37.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: previously non-conformant behavior). report CXXFLAGS.. probably need to make the
13:37.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: BC_COMPILER_* functions sensitive to the AC_LANG..
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14:48.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dave davis reported that performing a units operation on an empty .g file results in an assert bomb (undoubtedly because there's no _GLOBAL)
15:07.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: just verify build, too many changes with tcl/tk
15:12.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
15:12.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: since incrTcl needs to link against Tcl internal headers in order to compile
15:12.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: successfully, that ends up placing a requirement on the version of tcl such that
15:12.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: it must be at least the version we ship or later. this should fix one of john's
15:12.02CIA-21BRL-CAD: compilation woes on ubuntu.
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17:44.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
17:44.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: erik fixed rtedge multithreaded output render bug reported by clock3 aka Karel
17:44.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: Kulhavy (sf bug 1657171 - 7.8.4. rtedge renders bullshit). the problem was a
17:44.12CIA-21BRL-CAD: race condition when rendering in parallel on output to a file that would cause
17:44.12CIA-21BRL-CAD: scanlines to be written to file out-of-order. a modification was made to have
17:44.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: file output wait for each line in order before writing.
18:03.01*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:03.01*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
18:43.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/Makefile.am: make make noprod work correctly, remove enigma binary
18:47.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): er, don't do nothing.. make make noprod work correctly, remove the tcl/tk products
18:50.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
18:50.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: GAH, case typo s/TCl/TCL/ .. explains why Tcl and itcl would periodically pass
18:50.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: their functionality test when they should not have. also, re-enable the touch
18:50.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: of the header template, but this time only if the file is non-empty -- needs
18:50.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: more testing across autoconf versions still.
20:50.31*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:50.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
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21:09.41*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
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21:27.41dlican I import a part from another database file?
21:36.33brlcadyep
21:37.52brlcadthe 'proper' way is to run the "dbconcat" command or similarly File -> Import .. those will check for name collisions and rename for you
21:38.20brlcador you can simply "cat" the files together on the command line, the result .g will warn about multiple _GLOBAL entries, but it will be valid
21:42.16brlcadof, if you just want a portion of another database file, do a "keep" operation (or File -> Export) on the objects you want, and then import those
21:57.01dlibrlcad, thanks.
21:58.18deltazapdli: i was going to ask about that as well
21:58.48dlideltazap, I now realize it's somewhere in the tutorial
21:58.56deltazap:X
21:59.19deltazapslowly but surely making my way through it
22:04.25dlimy design: http://saras-bhat.uchicago.edu/chamber1.png
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22:40.25louipcwhat does that do?
22:41.09dlilouipc, my picture? it's a Ultra-High-Vacuum chamber
22:41.34louipcfancy
22:42.01louipcI need to start modeling some things
22:42.12louipcI don't know what though hahh
22:42.57dlilouipc, follow the tutorial (as I did) is a must
22:43.03louipcyeah
22:43.21louipcI'll probably have to do the tutorial again. It's been a long time
22:43.36louipcbut I don't know what I want to model
22:43.40dlilouipc, it's much more complex then I imagined. since I haven't finished the tutorial yet
22:43.48louipcmaybe I'll design a guitar yeah!
22:45.05dlilouipc, what about 2D cad, like qcad
22:45.30louipcdli: what about it?
22:45.30dlilouipc, I need blueprints for the machine shop, still rely on qcad
22:46.00dlilouipc, a very simple blueprint from qcad: http://saras-bhat.uchicago.edu/si0.png
22:46.05louipcI use solidworks dwg editor at work
22:47.29louipchehe qcad might be better, I never considered that
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22:47.46dlilouipc, it's free also. but it can not do 3D
22:48.38louipcdli: yeah. I know.
22:48.48dlilouipc, a little bit more complex from qcad:  http://saras-bhat.uchicago.edu/cell9a.pdf
22:49.27dlilouipc, you draw basically the old way
22:49.56louipchey.. that's 3d :P
22:50.42louipcbut you had to draw that manually?
22:50.44dlilouipc, yes, the way I learnt during my college course: engineering drawing
22:51.12louipchow do you do the radius' properly?
22:51.18louipcinteresting
22:51.35dlilouipc, projection of circles :)
22:52.10louipchmm I've never done projection of circles. that's neat though
22:52.30dlilouipc, if you know how to project x- y- z-, then, you can work out the equation for circle
22:54.14louipcis that 35 degree tilt?
22:55.23dlilouipc, yes, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection
22:55.45louipcyeah, so with that math you can draw at any other angle eh?
22:55.57louipchah I never learned that
22:56.08louipcwell I know what isometric is
22:56.26dlilouipc, hehe, I got A in my drawing course, only found it's so much easier with qcad
22:56.54louipcI've never touched a drafting table :/
22:57.43dlilouipc, better, most valuable part is the design, you can always hire someone to make the drawings
22:57.59louipcI've only used computers I mean
22:59.02dlilouipc, we had to start we pencil and rubber, good education still
22:59.10louipcyeah definitely
22:59.31louipc+ protractor, straightedge, compass, square hah
23:01.23dlilouipc, I wonder whether it's possible for brl-cad to merge some codes from qcad, and support drafting
23:03.11louipcyeah that would be handy
23:04.47louipcdli: do you know how to draw perspective view?
23:05.49dlilouipc, no, I think it's something like the last chapter in my course, but I have forgotten all :(
23:05.59louipcaw
23:07.46deltazapdli: what OS do you use qcad with?
23:08.05dlideltazap, linux
23:08.31deltazapok, i'm wondering if it's just me that has a problem with it on the mac
23:08.34deltazapit just doesn't feel right
23:08.43dlideltazap, for example?
23:08.57louipcdeltazap: I used qcad before on linux, and it felt a bit strange
23:09.08deltazapjust as an app on mac, it just doesn't fit well
23:09.19deltazapi'm way to use to the 'way things work'
23:09.55deltazapbut, that won't matter much as i'm about to get a student copy of autocad or pro/e at the lab
23:18.09deltazapyet i'll probably end up using brlcad
23:18.58louipcnot for 2d eh?
23:19.14deltazapprobably not
23:19.37deltazapmore for 3d models so i can show people what i plan to build
23:19.57deltazapbut we'll see how it goes and how good i can get
23:23.01deltazapis there a way to have placeholder objects and then easily replace them in the model?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070321

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070321

00:10.12IriX64got that shuttle dxf to go, pix is on my blog, note its not the acad shuttle, but a dxf is a dxf.
00:21.21deltazaphmm?
00:28.24louipcwhat wm do you use?
00:28.38louipcor do you use linux?
00:34.43brlcadthere have been several suggestions/discussions about merging some of qcad's capabilities with brl-cad's
00:37.10brlcadcertainly doable, especially given how qcad just uses dxf for their format and we have a fairly comprehensive dxf importer and exporter
00:48.53IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/404451
01:01.23IriX64is a release date actually set for 7-10? or is that a vaporeous thing still? :)
01:05.10brlcadany day now, as soon as these builds stabilize
01:06.57IriX64are you *sure I can't have the database to stryker pix :) (ducking)
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10:26.53cad86hi all
10:27.09cad86is there someone in this irc?
10:39.23clock_no
10:39.27clock_you are here alone
10:42.01cad86ok, and you're a ghost :-)
10:42.16clock_no I am your alterego. You subconscious
10:42.28cad86perfect.
10:42.30cad86see you.
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13:57.11*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
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16:43.36IriX64brlcad: off duty? :)
17:50.50IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/405334  < this should fix that bug I inadvertantly put in (mea culpa)
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18:22.09brlcadoff what?
18:22.38IriX64not sure what it should be
18:23.05IriX64err sorry
18:23.11brlcadnot sure what you're talking about
18:23.49brlcad/dev/ogll and /dev/ogl are both valid if ogl support is enabled, but mean different things
18:24.12IriX64ty thought it should be one or the other
18:24.14brlcad"ogl" is the device name, anything that follows are settings
18:24.27brlcadthere are a variety of possible settings (brlman libfb)
18:24.40IriX64thats what im missingf thanks
18:24.45brlcadl is one of them, meaning "linger" .. i.e. don't close the window
18:25.06brlcadsame is seen with /dev/X and /dev/Xl
18:25.15IriX64got it
18:25.16brlcadX is the device, l means keep the window open
18:25.26IriX64ill learn :)
18:25.30brlcadthere are others for using shared memory, single/double buffering, etc
18:25.39IriX64it is complex
18:25.47brlcadnot really, just flexible
18:26.06IriX64heh to you yes but im just starting out
18:30.11IriX64-msses ;)
19:31.26MaloeranDo you guys know anything about the potential difficulties and risks of carrying a packed E-ATX computer case by plane?
19:31.35MaloeranI assume it wouldn't be adviseable
19:32.46MaloeranI'm just not too inspired to demonstrate raytracing on a crummy Sempron with 256kb of L2 cache when I have a desktop 15 times faster
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19:34.51IriX64Maloeran, buy a seat for it.
19:35.50IriX64like viola players do
19:36.18MaloeranOuch, is that the only safe way? I'm not sure they would really let someone carry a big computer case in the plane, they tend to be paranoid enough
19:36.37IriX64say its a viola :)
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19:40.25IriX64mmm maybe a pet cage then?
19:41.20dliI made some drawings, but forgot the set units to "in". It's "mm" now, how could I fix this?
20:02.16IriX64mc
20:02.20IriX64sorry
20:14.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Use NSIS instead of InstallShield/MSI for Windows binary releases and Generate plain .zip files too (suggestion by f_noel and others via irc and myself, msi is crap)
21:00.40IriX64is there such a thing as a weekly snapshot of brlcad source?
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22:42.10louipcdli: maybe you can change the setting to inches and scale everything down
22:42.36dlilouipc, not sure about scaling :(
22:42.43louipcIriX64: you should really check out CVS man
22:43.03dlilouipc, I'm going to edit the binary .g file
22:43.15louipcwhat's wrong with scaling?
22:43.37dlilouipc, I see it's easier to go with binary editor
22:43.51dlilouipc, just one step, 1.00 => 2.54
22:44.34dlilouipc, I haven't finished "scaling" in tutorial yet
22:44.41louipchehe ok
22:45.45dlilouipc, scaling/matrix messed up
22:46.05louipcwhere in the file do you edit the units?
22:46.09dlilouipc, I think the qcad idea is better, numbers can be in any units, so, make the numbers abstract
22:46.15louipcoh I see
22:46.58louipcunits^@1.
22:47.01louipc0000000000000000000000000e+00
22:47.08louipcthat's some crazy accuracy
22:47.14louipcer precision
22:48.01louipcdli: yeah the numbers are just interpreted based on what you label the drawing
22:49.07louipcbut imagine importing a drawing that you drew based on metric into a drawing you drew based on imperial
22:49.44louipcthe metric parts would be much bigger... so I guess it's kind of nice to base the units off of a standard
22:50.13dlilouipc, no, doesn't work :(
22:51.18*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@wireless-230-163.uchicago.edu)
22:51.30dlilouipc, no, binary editor doesn't work. now, help to scale
22:52.00louipcdli: to convert from metric to imperial you should divide by 25.4 actually
22:52.19louipcbase units in metric is MM, not CM
22:53.45louipchehe I'd have to go through the tutorial again myself
22:53.59dlilouipc, you do a test, you will see it fails :(
22:55.27dlitell them to make the number and units independent :(
22:55.31louipcyeah I usually don't muck around in binary files :/
22:55.47dlilouipc, I don't know how to scale
22:57.20louipchmm lets see
23:02.14dlilouipc, this is very nasty :(
23:05.19louipchmm ok you can change your settings to inch and load in the file
23:05.30louipcthen you need to scale it down
23:05.47dlilouipc, how to scale?
23:09.19louipchehe good question
23:10.31dlilouipc, all I can see it to scale all prim and matrix :( to redraw everything is even easier
23:11.04dlilouipc, I can scale the final combination, but the leaves all prims with funny numbers, not a solution at all
23:12.35louipchow did you scale it?
23:13.59dlilouipc, go to Edit -> Prim Selection or Matrix selection
23:14.43dlilouipc, then, you can " sca <factor>", or "oscale <factor>"
23:17.19louipcok
23:18.53louipcI'm not sure. I haven't actually used brlcad for a long while. It should be easier though shouldn't it?
23:21.04louipcI'm really just trying to get brlcad and all the dependencies packaged nicely for my distro for now
23:21.38dlilouipc, I use gentoo, so, easier with a simple ebuild file
23:22.55louipcdli: yeah I made a basic package that just uses the stuff in src/other but I want to split those into separate packages so I don't need to re-install them every time
23:23.20louipcplus someone might find them useful for other purposes
23:25.24dlilouipc, I'm going home :( feel stupid now, probably, redraw everything is easier
23:25.45dlilouipc, btw, exporting as ascii doesn't work
23:25.51louipcyeah but you won't learn how to scale then
23:26.00dlilouipc, otherwise, we can edit the ascii file
23:26.12louipcyea
23:26.24dlilouipc, I mean it exports, but that ascii file is invalid at importing
23:27.03louipcoh hmm. I'm not sure how it's formatted so I couldn't say what's wrong
23:27.29dlilouipc, brlcad complains it's wrong
23:27.43brlcadIriX64: there were snapshots, but they're not on-line atm
23:27.54louipcI understand
23:28.22louipcdli: I meant I couldn't specifically say what the problem is
23:29.02brlcadlouipc: units issues?
23:29.21dlibrlcad, yes, how to change units from "mm" to "in"?
23:29.33brlcadtype: units in
23:29.41dlibrlcad, "inch"
23:29.55dlibrlcad, no :( it scales the coordinates
23:30.40brlcadthen sounds like you don't want to just change the units being used, but resize things that are already created?
23:31.10dlibrlcad, no. I forgot to set it to "in", now, how to correct this mistake
23:31.40louipccreated a model basing it on 'in' but actually drawing in 'mm'
23:32.26dlilouipc, yes, because I'm going to import this part into another database, I couldn't just ignore this
23:32.26brlcadgotya, so basically everything is too small
23:32.49louipcyea
23:32.54dlibrlcad, yes, also, funny numbers
23:33.23dlibrlcad, I can use oscale to scale the whole combination, but still leaving prim at funny numbers
23:33.50louipchmm
23:33.54brlcadindeed, hmm
23:34.12brlcadwhat do you mean by funny?
23:34.46dlibrlcad, because it has been scaled from correct values
23:35.13louipcso the scale can apply to the combination as a whole and not affect the prims?
23:35.15brlcader, huh? :)
23:35.52brlcadi'm not following .. funny as in "seems wrong" or just undesirable, or something else?
23:35.54dlibrlcad, the geometries are with correct numbers + wrong units. how to correct this
23:36.43brlcadassuming you don't have other matrices, the easiest is to just apply a matrix edit and push it
23:37.00brlcadoed, sca, accept done
23:37.24dlibrlcad, okay, I will forget this, just redraw everything. I already knew your solution :( which is not a solution to me at all
23:37.46brlcadcurious, why?
23:38.03brlcadthere are other ways too, but that's one of the faster direct ways
23:38.52dlibrlcad, I have an one inch cube, so I want to see ( -0,5 0.5 ), not ( -0.019, 0.0019)*25.4
23:39.57dlibrlcad, even worse, during editing, I see ( -0.019, 0.019) with cat, and go to matrix selection to see the 25.4
23:40.48dlibrlcad, is there anyway to make ascii database work? I can modify there
23:41.34brlcaddli: do you have other matrices in your combinations?
23:41.43brlcadif not, it sounds like the missing step is push
23:41.54brlcadpush will apply the matrix to the primitves
23:41.59dlibrlcad, yes, and this part will be imported to another database
23:42.35dlibrlcad, hold on, I don't know the "push" command
23:42.52brlcadpush gets rid of the matrices, applying them
23:43.45brlcadso instead of being a sphere centered at 0 0 0 with radius 10, with a pushed matrix, that might reposition, rescale, etc depending on the matrices above it
23:44.07brlcadif you need to retain the matrices, though, then you don't want to push
23:44.34dlibrlcad, no, that doesn't help with prims
23:44.58brlcadanother alternative, going the ascii route is to do a "keep" or File->Export in mged or g2asc on command-line, then edit direct
23:45.36brlcadeverything is numerically stored in mm, so you'd edit units to say "in" and update the values accordingly
23:45.42dlibrlcad, I tried the ascii database, but can not import the file
23:46.33brlcadwhy not?
23:47.04brlcadit will be sensitive to typos and other errors
23:48.34dlibrlcad, I can import now. let me try to edit it
23:48.48brlcadi can ask one of the expert modellers what they do tomorrow, there could be a command that does exactly this that I just don't know about
23:50.13dlibrlcad, so I have to change numbers in the ascii file too?
23:50.54dlibrlcad, I feel it's easier to redraw everything manually
23:59.29IriX64what other pastebins are there besides pastebin.ca and pastebin.org?
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070322

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070322

00:00.26louipcrafb.net/paste
00:00.33IriX64ty
00:00.36louipc'read a fine book'
00:00.37louipc:D
00:00.42IriX64heh
00:01.25louipcyou can even set up your own pastebin
00:01.56brlcadsomehow I bet there's a command for this, or a form of export/import that does this that I just dont' know about
00:02.03brlcadseems like I've heard it before
00:02.12IriX64http://rafb.net/p/G6o6Xz74.html
00:02.40IriX64i fixed my copy
00:03.28IriX64err patched, not to be mistaken for a fix
00:04.36brlcadthat's a new one even for you
00:04.47brlcadwonder what random edits you've been making to get that :)
00:05.16IriX64funny too.
00:05.53IriX64i's,j's, & k's flying every which way :)
00:07.19IriX64not to be taken seriously, I was just testing cut and paste ;)
00:07.38IriX64cd ../../
00:43.03*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
00:47.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/zttxup18.html
00:47.45IriX64as i said "patched"
01:16.28MaloeranWoohoo, waking up at 4h am tomorrow morning for 8 hours of flight with 2 stops
01:36.04MaloeranWith whom, if I may ask?
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02:50.50IriX6410565 normal is 565
02:51.14IriX6416% load bwhaaaaaaa
02:51.30IriX64sorrry i forget my place.
02:53.28IriX64http://rafb.net/p/U1VHm711.html <---the code not pretty but....
02:54.59IriX64sigh, sometimes i'm such a juvenile.
03:02.27IriX64that code is just my junkbox of semi-usefull things to be tested :)
03:07.24MaloeranHum. I can't commit on Rayforce.  /usr/lib/ruby/1.6/net/protocol.rb:221:in `error!': 550 "550 5.7.1 <Lee's email here>... Relaying denied. IP name possibly forged [10.10.0.15]" (Net::ProtoFatalError)
03:16.08MaloeranAh, the code was updated anyway
03:21.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/2hexIT91.html  don't let anyone tell you 7.8.4 doesn't compile and run.
03:27.06IriX64you're supposed to say, good job, but which part is your contribution;)
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16:59.40IriX64after all, life is about choices :)
17:01.47IriX64mc
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18:51.46dliwhen I do arot for an object, how do I specify the rotation center?
18:56.09dliI found it, qorot does the trick
19:11.06brlcadyeah, various commands to rotate, depending on what you have to work with
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21:19.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx:
21:19.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: first production version with some cleanup. Works with most tested inputs
21:19.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: including complex geometry. uses BBs when tessellation fail. still has some
21:19.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: shutdown issue, maybe some other minor issues. requires Cubit libraries/headers
21:19.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: to compile.
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23:18.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03mjgillich * 10brlcad/src/external/ (Makefile.am README): Added Cubit
Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070323

irclog2html for #brlcad on 20070323

02:03.48*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
02:03.48*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
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05:33.50cad98Hi
05:46.08brlcadheh
05:46.15brlcadfrom one channel to the next
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17:15.47IriX64API=automated processing of information :)
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17:31.31IriX64http://rafb.net/p/SLVHMX34.html
17:31.40IriX64who takes care of this one.
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17:41.46IriX64louipc identity issues :)
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20:12.29CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): add map function and a couple binary operators
20:13.55CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: add constants for ray-brep intersection routine (may need to be adjusted)
20:23.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: add bv intersection routines. add rough initial rt_shot implementation using openNURBS functionality. needs testing!
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21:28.36MaloeranHum oops, I'm sorry, Erik.  I said to Lee that more feedback could have been nice during the project, and he said that was supposed to be your job
21:28.54MaloeranSo you may hear something from him on that regard, I apologize
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Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc. IRC log for #brlcad on 20070324

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070324

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02:26.17IriX64http://rafb.net/p/St0shs62.html
02:26.21IriX64dudes...
02:26.53IriX64the & part of that check does nothing, it will always result true dont you think?
02:27.15IriX64the null part is covered by if!_ptr
02:27.57Twingyno
02:27.58IriX64i see what its supposed to do
02:28.15Twingyit's checking the valid bits
02:28.21Twingypointers have alignment
02:28.37Twingyit's checking that you don't have a misaligned pointer
02:28.49IriX64but some are pointers to structs twingy its not always a long
02:28.52Twingyi.e bad mojo stored in the last 3 bites for a 32-bit machine
02:29.02Twingyforget about the long
02:29.08Twingyit's cast to a long to do an and operation
02:29.17Twingyit could just as well be an int
02:29.23Twingyor a ptr_t
02:29.26IriX64i get you
02:29.41Maloeranintptr_t or ptrdiff_t would be the appropriate portable integer data types to hold a pointer
02:30.17Twingynot a good check to run if you are storing extra bits in your pointers
02:30.22Twingyas ray-tracing engines tend to do
02:30.32IriX64true who does that ? :)
02:30.36Twingyeveryone
02:30.48IriX64heh mea culpa
02:31.17IriX64putting a return on that macro for saome reason fixes the terra.g crashing mged problem tho , tested it works.
02:31.22MaloeranI have a "flags" int32_t in both nodes and sectors, I have bytes to waste to reach proper alignment for structs
02:32.06Twingyeveryone-Maloeran
02:32.10Twingy:)
02:32.15IriX64heh so i see
02:32.45TwingyMaloeran, when do you leave?
02:32.57MaloeranPlane is tomorrow at 12h
02:33.00Twingyah
02:33.07Twingyif it left later I'd take you flying
02:33.15Twingybut I think it's raining tomorrow
02:33.24MaloeranDo you think I can call a cab here to get me to the airport?
02:33.35Twingythere are shuttles that do that
02:33.41TwingyI think it's called "Rapid Rover"
02:33.43MaloeranIt's rather far, the taxi from the airport costs 95USD
02:33.54Twingythere are speacial vans that pick people up and take them to the airport
02:34.01MaloeranHum.
02:34.11Twingythey usually run around and pick up 3 or 4 people and hit the airport
02:34.15MaloeranShould I ask the front desk for information about these things?
02:34.17Twingyin the same general area
02:34.22Twingycosts $40 or $50
02:34.32Twingymaybe
02:34.37Twingygoogle would probly help
02:34.43Twingyor the baltimore airport website
02:34.53TwingyI know at philadelphia airport
02:34.59Twingyrapid rover will show up in a van for like $50
02:35.12MaloeranI see, neat
02:35.37MaloeranA taxi could be fine too, assuming he really wants to go that far
02:35.54Twingyor grab a train to the marc station
02:35.56Twingyerr taxi
02:35.59Twingyto marc train
02:36.05MaloeranRapid Rover seems specific to PHL airport
02:36.09Twingyk
02:36.22TwingyBWI might have it's own version of that
02:36.30MaloeranLooking
02:37.20MaloeranBWI shuttle doesn't appear to go as far as Belcamp. Oh well, a taxi it is
02:37.34Twingywhat about marc train?
02:38.04Twingythen again, marc train would be slower
02:38.07Twingybut alot cheaper
02:38.09MaloeranI'm unsure about experimenting with new means of transportation in a new area when on a tight schedule ( a train to catch )
02:38.13Twingyk
02:38.14Maloerana plane to catch, rather
02:38.30TwingyI'll let you sleep in one of my tool sheds if you miss the plane
02:38.36Twingyif you're real nice I'll let you stay in the garage
02:38.55brlcadyeah, should be 40-50
02:39.31TwingyI'm so proud of myself
02:39.39brlcada vanilla taxi would be bad - have to get an airport shuttle
02:39.40TwingyI wrote some opengl code that displayed lines today
02:39.48brlcadheh
02:40.00brlcadand I made an excellent white russian
02:40.15TwingyI'm working on my last diet pepsi
02:40.52Maloeranbrlcad, a standard taxi wouldn't be appropriate? Hrmph.
02:41.10MaloeranI guess I'll just ask the front desk tomorrow to pick whatever works
02:43.34brlcadMaloeran: yeah, concierge should have connections to the airport shuttles, though you usually need a couple hours advance notice
02:43.43MaloeranI may get a driving license eventually, but I won't get a car anyhow... unless I move to ~Belcamp some day
02:43.57Twingyconcierge, that's a fancy words
02:44.14TwingyMaloeran, a compressed air car
02:44.16MaloeranThanks brlcad, I'll try to wake up early enough
02:44.21TwingyI am going to build a compressed air bike
02:44.43Twingyas long as the bike doesn't fall over it won't explode
02:44.51MaloeranThat air tank is going to be heavy.  A muscle powered bicycle performs remarkably well too
02:45.06TwingyI'm more interested in doing something new
02:45.34MaloeranA wind powered car?
02:45.41brlcadif you end up having to take a regular taxi, it will be more expensive (not that you really need to care a "whole lot", it's a business expense)
02:48.20MaloeranAh right, I need to remember to collect receipts too
02:49.43brlcadyep
02:53.40Twingyreceipts can be burnt in my steam engine
02:53.45Twingyyou should save those
02:54.46Twingyeach one is worth a femtocent
02:57.45TwingyNot the mama!
02:57.53Twingymomma
03:52.10louipc_damn I'm timing out like there's no tomorrow
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13:17.24MaloeranHrm. Does anyone feel like playing the wingate-BWI taxi for a hundred bucks? :)
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14:28.54bjorkBSDTwingy, you have a team engine?
14:29.12bjorkBSD*steam
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17:50.33IriX64putting data_dir=${prefix}/share in configure.ac after the root dir check allows me to put the resources where I want them, true or false?
17:52.14IriX64urf wait...
17:52.35IriX64mc
17:53.26IriX64datadir
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20:25.44IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad/threads
20:25.56IriX64note the thread count :)
20:29.52clock_Space Not Available This space is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later. To find other spaces that interest you, go to Windows Live Spaces.
20:30.05IriX64you jest...
20:30.22IriX64i'm there
20:30.41clock_Trying again. The same.
20:31.02IriX64shrug (microsoft)
20:31.12IriX64should put up an http server
20:31.21IriX64but i have a dynamic ip
20:31.38IriX64no cracks about dydns please :)
20:33.53IriX64try it now
20:34.06clock_the same
20:34.50IriX64try www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad
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20:37.01IriX64did it load?
20:42.40docelic_IriX64: yes
20:43.06docelic_IriX64: what's that. brlcad on irix ?
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20:55.11IriX64taskmgr on irix? :)
20:58.25poolioLooks like blrcad on windows =(
21:08.55IriX64that one is brlcad "on" windows
21:09.01IriX64same url
21:11.25IriX6432768 global photons, 1024 irradiance rays... how long will i be waiting?
21:21.04poolioI have no clue what you're talking about, but I'm going to go with a magnitude of hours?
23:33.51pooliobrlcad: I'm having trouble compiling brlcad. misc/Makefile.in is not being created
23:37.21IriX64poolio, good guess , it's still not ready
23:38.08IriX64poolio starting from ./autogen.sh ?
23:38.14IriX64makes it here
23:38.50brlcadpoolio: cvs head is a bit unstable at the moment
23:39.00brlcadwe're cleaning some things up for a release
23:39.33brlcadthough misc/Makefile.in does indeed imply that something went wrong during autogen.sh
23:39.46brlcadrun ./autogen.sh --verbose
23:40.07IriX64brlcad: are you saying the source(7.8.4) tarball is at the moment more stable than cvs head?
23:42.11brlcaddepends on what you're doing, but from a simple compilation standpoint -- perhaps
23:42.52brlcadhead is allowed to change you know, usually changes daily
23:43.15brlcadthere will be a STABLE branch created after this next release so HEAD can be more fluid too
23:43.46pooliobrlcad: I did, nothing wrong there
23:47.05brlcadsomehow I fail to believe that :)
23:47.13brlcadif there really is no .in file
23:47.36brlcadthat means something in automake failed to produce the file
23:48.15brlcads/in automake failed/caused automake to fail/
23:49.38poolioWell there are warnings from lib3ds, but no error messages or things that would indicate a failure of creation
23:50.06brlcadcan you pastebin the output?
23:50.39poolioYeah, hold on.
23:52.22pooliobrlcad: aha! My eyes decieve me. src/external/Makefile.am:3: BUILD_CUBIT does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
23:52.39brlcadaha
23:53.01brlcadyes, just a recent mod -- there's an AM_CONDITIONAL missing in configure.ac
23:54.50pooliobrlcad: what's the test supposed to be for BUILD_CUBIT?
23:55.41brlcadnear the bottom.. there's a bunch of AM_CONDITIONALS
23:55.50brlcadcan just add a line for BUILD_CUBIT that is false
23:56.07poolioah alright
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070325

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070325

00:03.26poolioAh, other errors I don't feel like fixing, I'll try out stable =)
00:03.54brlcadthere isn't a stable branch yet .. that will be *after* this next release
00:04.05brlcadyou can check out the last release sources, though
00:04.17brlcad-r rel-7-8-4
00:06.04pooliobrlcad: I assumed previous releases were stable but heh...not always so
00:06.55brlcaddepends on the platform and your system configuration as to whether it'll build
00:07.48brlcadthough "stability-wise" in a traditional sense -- even CVS head is stable -- just doesn't happen to compile right this second because of a commit yesterday that hasn't been patched
00:07.59poolioah alright.
00:08.02brlcadstability doesn't usually refer to compilation, my misnomer
00:08.31poolioAh really? What is your definition of stable?
00:08.39poolioWhen it does run it is stable?
00:11.44brlcadit can refer to compilation
00:11.48brlcadjust not "usually"
00:12.10brlcadusually imho, it refers to the run-time stability of an application or application suite
00:12.21brlcadknown bugs notwithstanding
00:12.36poolioAlright. I would agree with that, just as an open source software user I find that when something won't even compile to me, it has a stability of nil.
00:19.55pooliobrlcad: Haha. Automake 1.10 isn't new enough...needs automake 1.6 or above... silly minor numbers.
00:21.07brlcadpoolio: ah, that is fixed
00:21.14brlcaduse the autogen.sh from head
00:21.40poolioOk. But still a funny problem IMO
00:22.10brlcadyep -- it ends up parsing 1.10 as 1.1.0
00:23.05poolioWell regardless, the number 1.10 is less than 1.6 so it's just doing it's job.
00:23.24brlcadheh
00:24.00poolioSounds more like an error in automake's minor numbering scheme than an error in the parsing of those numbers
00:26.37brlcadyou'd think, except it's actually just two separate numbers, not one floating point number
00:26.48brlcadthe decimal is merely a conventional delimiter
00:27.55poolioAh revision numbers, where math operators are abused.
00:28.40Maloeran50k lines of Fortran written by an engineer, not a programmer, over 15 years.  It's nice in its own very special way
00:30.38IriX64could've been cobol :)
00:31.13pooliocould've been lisp. ;)
00:32.34MaloeranHey! Don't you dare say a thing against Lisp :)
00:33.09IriX64picture me picturing that ;)
00:34.13``Erikcobol is a language intended to be pragmatic that ended up being completely academic.
00:34.25``Eriklisp is a langauge intended to be completely academic that ended up pragmatic.
00:35.03IriX64#pragma ``Erik ~:)
00:36.37``ErikS-expressions were intended to be the intermediate form... the 'human' version of lisp was supposed to be something called m-expressions
00:36.47``Erikbut, uh, humans like s-expressions... a lot...
00:37.12``Eriklike asm, just as low level and super-powerful, yet obscenely wieldable
00:37.25``Erik... n/m that the h/w of the day was very different *cough*
00:37.50MaloeranAh I see, hardware which matched Lisp constructs directly
00:39.06``Erikevery low level lisp 1.5 operation maps to exactly one opcode which takes exactly one cycle on an ibm 709
00:39.26``Erikno low level lisp 1.5 operation takes more than 2 clocks on a pdp11
00:39.28``Erik...
00:40.03``Erikin weenie terminology, um, car is adh, cdr is adl, ...
00:41.04``ErikC hw is the pdp11, the x86 is a grossly bad match :/
00:42.38MaloeranItanium hardware would have been really sweet for a C language with many specific extensions
00:44.55poolioYou guys are big into optimization, eh?
00:45.26MaloeranI think I am, yes, I'm very fond of assembly too
00:46.04MaloeranErik prefers to write Brainfuck compilers with optimisation though :)
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01:10.29``Erikbrainfuck is the minimal turing complete language with both input and output notions added
01:10.52``Erikseriously, it is the ULTIMATE in 'pragmatic' assembly languages
01:11.11``Erikeverything you do to modify it is a machine adaptation
01:13.37``Erikmy bf compiler/interpreter/etc exploration is very much a deep computer science exploration, my friend :)
01:14.41``Erik<-- can't help but to look as various archs as turing lanaguage plus optimizitions...
01:15.07``Erik<-- cant help to ponder what optimizations help among all archs
01:15.46``Erikobviously, ay nearest neighbor algorithm is better expressed as a graph than a tree in turing lanag
01:16.11``Erik... which is why rayforce whumps adrt... fundamnetally....
01:16.44``Eriksomething I've been ragging about since I think 9 yrs ago
01:17.36``Erik(in my youth, I very much had a notion that asm was important for fast programs... I like to imagine I've learned better)
01:18.32IriX6412737 301 777566    never mind asm :)
01:19.04``Erikten years ago, I discovered that asm was teh best language to learn and never use again.
01:19.15``Erikit's very good to understand how the machine works
01:19.34``Erikindeed, I took classes in understanding it to the transistor level
01:19.52IriX64you have to know what the instruction that broke is supposed to do if you're going to fix it
01:19.56``Erikit's GOOD to know it! but the minute you NEED it, something is horribly wrong.
01:20.39IriX64problem is which asm are we going to teach our kids?
01:20.59IriX64z80 m6502 8006 etc...
01:21.06``Erikand the good on knowing it and when you need it... that barrier is where you should know when to decide whether it's something htat needs to be fixed at the language or the hw levle...
01:21.07IriX64err 8086
01:21.15``Erik<- done 'em all
01:21.20IriX64me too
01:21.47IriX64can you picture a 64bit z80?
01:22.09``Erikin the late 80's
01:22.43``Erikever hear of "worldnet" "the real
01:22.50``Erik<PROTECTED>
01:22.56``Erikal out of the seattle area...
01:22.59IriX64fidonet mostly ``Erik
01:23.24``Erikfido was intarweb, not bbs
01:23.24IriX64my address 1:222/10.0
02:11.33*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
02:11.33*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
02:21.42IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/mapping/
02:48.40IriX64brlcad: what advantage would i gain working with cvs versus just waiting for the release?
02:51.07Twingyyou have know idea how global illumination works do you
02:51.11Twingy*no
02:51.27IriX64man I didn't write it
02:51.37TwingyI'm talking in general
02:51.58IriX64quite an accurate statement, but im willing to learn, teach me
02:52.08Twingydo you understand that the whole point of global illumination is to create an environment for light to bounce around in
02:52.16IriX64yes
02:52.38IriX64how many photons should i use?
02:52.44Twingythen you understand that placing an object in the vacuum of space and rendering it with global illumination is a pointless endeavor?
02:52.58IriX64why i got a picture
02:53.04Twingysince there is nothing for the light to bounce around and deposit on
02:53.17IriX64and what pray tell is havoc?
02:53.30IriX64its a raze thing
02:53.38Twingyit's a poor rendering because all of your photons went off into space
02:54.02IriX64im willing to bet that copter looks like that in real life
02:54.29TwingyI disagree, I wrote photon mapping code in brl-cad, I wrote path tracing code in adrt, I know how it works
02:54.49Twingyyou should place it in a box or don't use it
02:54.51Twingyit's pointless
02:55.03IriX64so elucidate like i said im genuially interested in learning how to use it properly
02:55.08IriX64err ok
02:55.13Twingyit's like computing 2+2 a million times just to get the answer to 2+2
02:55.22Twingyit's pointless
02:55.44TwingyI just told you, there needs to be an environment for light to bounce off of
02:55.45IriX64no twingy if what your saying is true i would get no picture
02:55.52Twingymodel an aircraft hangar
02:55.59Twingywrong
02:56.08Twingy95% of your photons are going off into space
02:56.23Twingyand photon mapping relies on phong shading as the direct lighting term
02:56.31IriX64so all im winding up with is the irradiance rays that struck?
02:56.50Twingywhat you are seeing is the phong shading term of the BRDF (bidirectional reflectance distribution function) equation
02:57.06Twingywhat you are doing is getting a broken BRDF equation with partial phong shading
02:57.28Twingywhat you are seeing is 95% phong shading
02:57.39IriX64is there anything in the geometry examples that would do a fair test?
02:57.52TwingyI am only going to repeat myself one more time
02:57.58Twingylisten very carefully
02:58.06Twingyyou need an environment for light to bounce off of
02:58.18Twingydo you know what I mean by environment?
02:58.23Twingytrees
02:58.24Twingywalls
02:58.26Twingybuildings
02:58.28Twingytables
02:58.30Twingydesks
02:58.50Twingythose are things light can bounce off of
02:58.55Twingyand ultimately deposit on
02:59.04IriX64and havoc doesn't fit?
02:59.14Twingyhavoc is fine, it's not in an environment
02:59.22Twingyit's in space!
02:59.29Twingylight doesn't bounce off of space!
02:59.55Twingyput it in a box if you are lazy!
03:00.03Twingyif you have the time model an aircraft hangar
03:00.07Twingymake sure it is enclosed
03:00.26Twingyget it?
03:00.31IriX64man thats beyond my meager talents, im not a serious cadder
03:00.49Twingythen stop using photon mapping :)
03:00.52Twingyit's goofy!
03:01.01Twingyyou can't create an arb8?
03:01.05IriX64why its so much fun to wait an hour or two :)
03:01.20IriX64all i created was a pipe
03:01.21Twingyif you spent 3 seconds and made an arb8 around the havoc it'll look 100x better
03:01.39IriX64ill try
03:01.39Twingygood!
03:01.55Twingygoogle for this stuff that way you won't be so clueless!
03:02.04Twingyyou're just being lazy
03:02.06IriX64hehe thanks
03:02.11Twingynot a matter of being smart
03:03.23IriX64heh giver man giver
03:22.15IriX64allright how do i get havoc *inside this arb8 ive created?
03:26.59deltazapexpand the arb8 around the havoc
03:27.24IriX64can you walk me through it?
03:27.48IriX64assume i haven't even taken the tutorial
03:28.04deltazaphave you drawn the havoc to the screen
03:28.08IriX64yes
03:28.16IriX64and then created arb8
03:28.54deltazapand if you go to edit, you get a listing of items that you can modify on the arb8
03:29.06IriX64faces edges etc?
03:29.10deltazapyes
03:29.47deltazapalright, then go and select Scale
03:30.11IriX64right
03:30.32deltazapscale the arb so that its larger than the havoc
03:30.43IriX64already is
03:31.12deltazapalright, check from the front and left views to make sure that the havoc is inside the arb
03:31.56IriX64its not
03:32.43IriX64now it is
03:35.12deltazapalright, there you go
03:35.20IriX64ty
03:35.27deltazapnow from there, i have no clue how to get photon mapping working :P
03:35.49IriX64takes a flashlight :)
03:40.08IriX64when i want to move a face i usually make a fist :)
03:43.27IriX64perl sucks cpu man
03:56.25IriX64music to draw by :)
03:59.54IriX64deltazap, you're a serious user of brlcad aren't you?
04:00.13IriX64i'm just a novice as you've seen
04:00.19deltazapi started learning last week
04:00.20deltazap:P
04:00.44IriX64well you're several lessons ahead of me
04:02.05IriX64did you use the html docs or the man pages?
04:02.23deltazapthe pdfs made from the html
04:02.27IriX64meaning which way is easier to learn from?
04:02.40IriX64pdf ah.
04:06.03IriX64http://rafb.net/p/mzNEqm58.html
04:06.09IriX64my config summary
04:08.28IriX64man the photons can't get in the box, all i get is a black screen
04:09.54IriX64but it went through the motions
04:12.44deltazapwooo 3 fps
04:14.01IriX64.5 fps here :)
04:14.01IriX64but im doing a compile
04:14.31IriX64fps=feet/per/stroke?
04:18.10deltazaphmm?
04:20.38TwingyIriX64, you have to create a light source
04:20.55IriX64you said an arb8
04:21.04TwingyIN ADDITION TO THE ARB8
04:21.19TwingyIriX64, do you have any common sense?
04:21.28IriX64you didn't tell me that i told you i haven't even taken the tutorial yet
04:21.44Twingyforget about the tutorial
04:21.46Twingyuse your logic boy!
04:21.54Twingyif you stand in a room
04:21.57Twingyand there is no light bulb
04:22.01IriX64you need light yes
04:22.05Twingyit's going to be pitch black!
04:22.16Twingythis isn't rocket science
04:22.18IriX64... but how the farkle do i tell brlcad this point is a light bulb?
04:22.31Twingymake another arb8 or a sphere or whatever
04:22.37Twingyand go into the material editor
04:22.41Twingyand tag it as a light
04:22.44IriX64the say what?
04:22.51Twingymake another object
04:22.57Twingyand go into the material settings
04:23.06Twingyand set the shader to light source
04:23.11Twingysheesis
04:23.19IriX64look i dont even know where the material setting is
04:23.29TwingyIriX64, seriously dude, I knew how to do this after 6 hours of blindly poking at brl-cad
04:23.41Twingyyou need to take a serious time out and rtfm
04:23.51IriX64i have been blindly poking for less than 5 minutes.... have a heart
04:24.20TwingyI have 0 tolerance for the lazy
04:24.33IriX64bother
04:25.47IriX64nice box :) err wait...
04:26.20IriX64light model full gives me a square box
04:26.45deltazapyou'll need to move the camera into the box
04:26.57IriX64and the light
04:29.29IriX64ahh reject ejects the bloody arb8
04:30.29IriX64now we'll map it my way :)
04:32.20IriX64darn i was wrong
04:35.26IriX64ill just remove it from the display
04:35.47IriX64and take a shot
04:54.31IriX64http://rafb.net/p/mHDWsq44.html
04:54.34IriX64status
06:07.07MaloeranOkay, unsurprisingly, I really don't like Fortran
06:16.53MaloeranAnd it requires some obscure non-existing dfwin.mod thing to compile
07:49.40brlcadby the way, for anyone that was following Twingy's patient advice.. that summary was "put the object into a box and render from inside", which amounts to making a big arb8 and then subtracting another slightly smaller arb8 or using the inside command to hollow it out, creating a light inside the box (make an object, make a region, set region to light), render in awe with his photon mapping lighting model
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13:00.09deltazapbrlcad: i was going to mention that you had to hollow out the box
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13:39.40deltazaphehe, my box came out to be nice and green from the reflection
13:40.05deltazapis there any way to zoom into a section without zooming in too far and cutting off portions of the model?
14:50.20``ErikIt's obvious that GNU/Linux is a woman.
14:50.20``ErikShe's high maintenance, expects everything to be given to her for free, and no matter what goes wrong... it's your fault.
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15:43.01louipc``Erik: depends on what distro you choose
15:44.06louipcbut yeah it usually is your fault... especially if you're a noob
15:44.53louipcwhich I'd rather have than it being the app's or OS's fault as I experienced in Windows... because it's fixable
15:47.14``Erikheh, sometimes you can fix t he apps' or os's fault... not windows, but... *shrug*
15:47.25``Erik<-- likes fbsd most, macs are nice desktop os's
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16:23.11louipcmaybe a bit. someone recommended setting up a separate box if you want to use a lot of drives, especially if they're scsi
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16:35.49zordello
16:40.56zordhi
16:41.57brlcadhi
16:42.47zordhelp...
16:42.52zordneeded
16:43.06zordfirst time in irc web
16:43.33zordhow to change channel
16:43.36zord?
16:44.40brlcadwell, you joined an irc web client dedicated to BRL-CAD
16:44.47brlcadso you get to BRL-CAD channels
16:45.06brlcadotherwise it's no different than any other irc client for changing channels
16:45.43zordI should go tu this channel:#kubuntu
16:45.54zordhow to?
16:45.58brlcadI suggest getting a real irc client regardless -- the web interface isn't meant as a replacement
16:46.12zordIM on linux
16:46.15brlcadso?
16:46.22zordand I have kopete
16:46.31brlcadtry irssi or xchat
16:46.34zordbut I dont have an account
16:46.50zordwhere to register
16:47.07MaloeranYou don't need an account, just launch xchat and connect to irc.freenode.org
16:47.32zordand with kopete?
16:47.43MaloeranThe command :  /server irc.freenode.org   should work with about any IRC client
16:47.56MaloeranThen  /join #channelNameHere  to join a specific channel
16:49.46zordok thanks
16:49.48brlcadzord, kopete is a horrible irc client -- you should get something better (like irssi, xchat, bitchx, etc)
16:50.09MaloeranYou'll probably find xchat easier to use than the others
16:50.12brlcadprobably worse than the horrible web interface that you're using now
16:50.38zordI'll try it out..
16:50.42zordthanks
17:01.03``Erikand I thought it was irc.freenode.net :D
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17:09.16IriX64ok twingy, i'm trying it with the provided sun illumination :)
17:12.03``Erikirix: maybe you should read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon_mapping a couple dozen times, then read the external links a few dozen times...
17:12.06``Erik:)
17:12.19``Eriky'know... until you "get it",t hen a few times more
17:12.42IriX64got it
17:13.28IriX64serious question though, is there a way to remove an object from the database once created?
17:13.59brlcadkill objectname
17:14.04IriX64ty
17:14.28IriX64gone thanks
17:14.30brlcadthere is no undo
17:14.39IriX64figured that
17:15.41``Erikyet
17:16.06IriX64heh who's job, and i'm not volunteering :)
17:16.14``ErikI will never eat krispy kreme again. Ever. http://eatliver.com/i.php?n=1853
17:16.26louipcI think autocad might have one of the most extensive undo capabilities because it's so touchy
17:17.20IriX64blargh on krispy kreme :)
17:17.38``Erikdid you, uh, look at the url, irix?
17:17.56IriX64yeah i read it i agree ill never eat them
17:18.25louipcfake
17:18.42IriX64i know did you you read it close?
17:19.09louipchah sony
17:21.36IriX64arb = a rectangular box?
17:25.45IriX64wonder if the network drawing would load, mental note get a copy from the guy who maintains it
17:35.33IriX64for what its worth   http://www.pastebin.ca/409390
17:46.25IriX64my system at work, btw slap me if i'm being annoying       http://www.pastebin.ca/409402
17:51.45*** join/#brlcad tedcx (n=root@71.237.138.185)
17:53.29tedcxMaking all in adrt; Making all in libtie; kdtree.c: In function 'tie_kdtree_cache_load':;kdtree.c:811: warning: dereferencing 'void *' pointer;kdtree.c:811: error: wrong type argument to unary exclamation mark;make[3]: *** [kdtree.lo] Error 1;make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1; make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1; make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
17:54.18tedcxI'm getting the error above when making brlcad on a 64 bit SuSE Linux box OpebSuSE 10.2
18:01.05brlcadtedcx: add --disable-adrt to the configure line
18:01.30brlcadit's not meant to be prevalently enabled at the moment -- it hasn't been fully integrated into the build
18:02.14tedcxthanks
18:28.07brlcadnp
18:44.11tedcxexport ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/share/tcl/itcl3.3 doesn't seem to let mged find  a usable init.tcl
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19:08.02brlcadtedcx: are you working off of cvs head perchance?
19:08.08brlcadi'm in the middle of something on head
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19:41.11Twingysweet potato chips are tastey
19:41.30IriX64and you know this how ? :)
19:51.23*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca)
19:58.36IriX64nice program tho :)
19:59.09IriX64wincvs that is
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22:27.06IriX6412fps on wavefront, nice
22:31.23IriX64to be fair there's a compile going on tho
22:35.40IriX64how many people with commit access to the brlcad source tree brlcad?
22:36.41IriX64perhaps have all members check a new commit no matter who commited it, sometimes different people see different things
22:37.21IriX64or the buddy system if you prefer
22:45.50IriX64id paste it but ...
22:46.58IriX64rather proud of my little info thingy :)
22:55.41brlcadIriX64: see the members list on the sf project page
22:56.30IriX64ty
22:56.46brlcadcommits are already sent to a commits mailing list so developers can review the activity of others, as well as relayed into here, as well as archived in several locations
22:57.11IriX64but the actual code?
22:57.29IriX64i know it would double your workload but...
22:57.37IriX64may come in handy
22:57.56brlcadwhat problem would this solve?
22:58.11brlcadthis is the actual code, all changes
22:59.11IriX64not a problem, but just trying to help stop bugs from getting through
22:59.20pooliohey brlcad, can I email you a resume?
22:59.26IriX64if you already do it then forget what i said
22:59.53brlcadIriX64: it's basically already done -- the only real help you could probably provide would be to actually investigate and fix bugs
23:00.06brlcador run code analysis tools
23:00.11brlcador security analysis tools
23:00.13brlcadetc
23:00.38brlcadpoolio: sure
23:00.54IriX64hey i wasn't offering, just suggesiting
23:01.00IriX64suggesting too
23:01.56brlcadwhich unfortunately frankly isn't helpful even if your intentions are pure and you're just trying to help
23:02.05brlcadwe have the ideas, the ideas list is massive
23:02.23brlcadproductive contributions and activity
23:02.32brlcadthat's what is needed :)
23:05.02brlcadIriX64: check over the TODO file doc/IDEAS files -- if there are items missing you can think of, let me know and I'll add them
23:12.34IriX64i will brlcad, i will
23:45.58``Erikvim doc/IDEAS
23:46.21``ErikGo* ignore irix64^[ZZ
23:46.33``Erikcvs -z3 commit -m 'important todo' doc/IDEAS
23:46.34``ErikO:-)
23:49.29IriX64;) already did that
23:58.08IriX64wincvs is not for the faint of heart which reminds me i must uninstall it
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070326

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070326

00:06.46``Erikerm, ...
00:07.09IriX64you have code analysis tools i could run?
00:07.47IriX64im not good at security, but i'll run your analyzers for you no matter how long they take to complete
00:08.06MaloeranErik, did you see me mentionning that rtcmp doesn't compile here?
00:09.00``Erikummmm, I think so, uh, something aboput the nmg silent flag that requires a newer BRL-CAD than you have?
00:09.21MaloeranOh. I see,  okay
00:09.45``Erikyou can comment that line out, it just makes things a tiny bit quieter
00:10.35Maloerantri.c:234: error: too few arguments to function 'bu_realloc    tri.c:277: error: 'nmg_bool_eval_silent' undeclared
00:15.31``Erikhm, I'll fix the realloc thing tomorrow... but it SHOULD just be a warning :/
00:16.10``Erikfixing the bu_realloc is easy, just add a message as the last arg
00:22.38MaloeranI really should get used to the math notation some day. After spending minutes translating "big" formulas into pseudo-code, I'm surprised by how simple the thing is in the end
00:34.01tedcxBRLCAD: re: can't find a usable init.tcl on execution of mged: Yes  suing CVS per istructions on the website - I'll try to find a tar.gz
00:34.46brlcadtedcx: yes, current known issue from a commit I made a couple days ago -- working on it now
00:35.22brlcadyou should be able to pull a cvs checkout of -r rel-7-8-4
00:35.41brlcader, cvs update -r rel-7-8-4 -dP
00:35.45tedcxbrlcad
00:37.44tedcxbrlcad: where is an x64 source for linux?
00:38.15brlcadthe source is the same for all platforms
00:38.50brlcadif you have a checkout already, you should be able to run the above cvs command and rebuild
00:40.12tedcxbrlcad: OK, am doing now
00:40.57tedcxbrlcad: what configure switches should be used?
00:49.45brlcadhm, probably ./configure --disable-adrt --enable-optimized
00:49.58brlcadhave to rerun autogen.sh after doing the update
00:50.06brlcadthen configure
00:50.48tedcxBrlcad: ran autogen, am making now thanks
01:09.21IriX64there's something to be said for not trying to have the latest and greatest *all the time:)
02:07.02*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:20.10deltazapman, being able to use tcl in mged is pretty awesome
02:20.23deltazapnow if it could do ruby, we'd be onto something ;)
02:22.20brlcaddeltazap: soon enough :)
02:22.53deltazap:D
02:29.09deltazapbrlcad: is there a guide around on how to set up distributed ray tracing?
02:30.13brlcaddeltazap: not a really good one .. the closest is probably the remrt manual page
02:31.18brlcadbasic idea is to set up remrt with all of the usual rt parameters that you might want to use
02:31.25brlcadthen run rtsrv on all your distributed hosts
02:36.59deltazapalright, i'll have to start reading up
02:39.56deltazapmy ibook doesn't have quite enough power to do photon mapping by itself :P
03:05.55deltazapi know i asked this a few nights ago, but i don't know if someone responed
03:06.25deltazapis there a way to replace one primative for another region, for instance?
03:24.38IriX64Twingy: gave it some light www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
03:25.10Twingyyou are stilling missing an environment IriX64
03:29.27IriX64man its in flight :P
03:29.49deltazapwhoops, crashed mged
03:46.36IriX64thought you crashed havoc for a moment :)
04:01.53IriX64want to see my bbs again.... i'm darn well going to.
04:02.30IriX64say is random chatter and mutterings permitted or not permitted during work hours?
04:16.16brlcaddeltazap: combinations use named references, so if you refer to a primitive and want to replace that primitive with something else, (whether it be a region or another primivite) you can use the mvall command
04:17.07deltazapah, nice :)
04:17.37brlcadso to replace a primitive p.s with a region c.r, you'd mvall p.s c.r then restore p.s with mv c.r p.s then kill c.r (which is a primitive) and then create whatever you want to replace it with
04:18.33deltazapalright
04:18.45brlcadnot the clearest of examples, but hopefully you see -- you renamed all references to the new name, then put something new in place
04:22.28brlcadthese are in the 'Creating Geometry' section on http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.pdf if that thelps
04:22.28deltazapnext odd question: is there any way to resize a region?
04:22.28deltazapi have that printed out here somewhere
04:22.29brlcadresizing is another way of saying scale
04:22.29brlcadfound in the "S  R G set glob_compat_mode 1
04:22.29brlcadeek
04:22.29brlcadScaling and Resizing Geometry  in non-unicode form :)
04:22.29deltazapok
04:22.34brlcadbasically, you oed the object (or matrix select via gui -- same thing) -- then sca or select Scale on the menu
04:22.57deltazapthat's what i thought, but in the matrix selection, the region wasn't listed
04:23.33brlcadif you want to apply the scale to the primitives themselves, you'd use the push and/or xpush commands
04:24.28deltazapok
04:29.27deltazaplast random question of the night: how well does that .g -> cubit converter and do you need testers :P
04:29.36deltazap*work
04:33.16brlcadit actually works surprisingly well .. what I'm trying to sort out, though, is how we can go about distribution
05:02.45IriX64infozip rather :)
05:03.26IriX64tedcx did you get yours to compile (to get back on topic)
05:05.42IriX64brlcad: can i really use this cvs client to access BRL-CAD latest code?
05:07.42brlcadthe very latest is always in cvs
05:07.55IriX64whats the learning curve like?
05:08.05brlcadit's not incredibly different
05:08.14brlcadbut it's current active development
05:08.28brlcadso even the slightest typo and something might not build
05:09.02IriX64i see you use cvs till you get something building error free then you release a new source tarball?
05:09.20brlcadit's generally expected that you have a basic understanding of how to resolve the simple build errors and occasional build failures or run-time glitches if you work off of cvs HEAD
05:09.38IriX64ill wait for the source distribution, thanks
05:10.09IriX64i mean i think i can reslove build issues, but i have a slow link
05:10.13brlcadsort of .. the process has changed over the years and generally speaking, head is stable and we simply release when we want
05:10.34brlcadwhich is "supposed" to be once a month if everything is running smooth
05:10.57IriX64supposed mean a lot of things to a lot of people :)
05:11.03IriX64+s
05:12.05IriX64but on the other hand i downloaded the thing, maybe ill play with it whats the address or is it on sourceforge?
05:13.27brlcadit's all on sourceforge, including detailed instructions
05:13.41brlcadjust follow the CVS link on the sf project page
05:16.12IriX64ty
05:22.49CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/bookmarks.html: add an initial bookmarks file in NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1 html doctype format. slews of links missing, but stub initial sections for news, distribution, documentation, source analysis, and external linkages.
05:23.39CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/Makefile.am: install the bookmarks.html file
05:28.56brlcadif you had a cvs checkout -- those commits are actually "live" -- you could do a cvs update on your source tree and get the modification immediately no matter what it is
05:30.25IriX64I see, i'm skimming documentation here but see no way to connect to sourceforge, or at least i haven't found it yet.
05:37.21IriX64what is the project name to enter into this thing BRL-CAD?
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06:08.21IriX64DogStar running
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12:40.43*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
13:57.22*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-69-250-155-85.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:40.26deltazaphmm, trying to figure out why my photon mapping looks blown out in the render i did over night
16:08.56brlcadlight might be too bright
16:09.25brlcadhave to be cautious towards the number of photons being used and the lumens of the light in the scene
16:15.54clock_brlcad: if I want caustics, do I have to use photon mapping?
16:17.05brlcadclock_: yes
16:17.14brlcador some other global illumination render
16:17.57clock_brlcad: and in BRL-CAD that means always photon mapping?
16:18.59clock_brlcad: how can I render with photon mapping? With rt? Or other command?
16:19.07clock_I didn't find photon mapping in rt --help
16:19.57brlcadclock_: no, it means photon mapping or converting the model to adrt and rendering it with rise
16:20.18brlcadclock_: it's easier to select photon mapping from the raytrace control panel in the gui
16:20.19clock_is rise part of BRL-CAD?
16:20.21brlcadthere are a lot of options
16:20.32clock_brlcad: I want for automated processing
16:20.37brlcadRISE is a part of ADRT, which is included with BRL-CAD (but not compiled by default yet)
16:21.04clock_man -a rt rt - AIMS Lab Radiotrack FM radio device
16:21.13brlcadclock_: I mean use the gui to test/set the options .. then you can review what the command-line parameters are for automation afterwards
16:21.47brlcadthe command line params are displayed to the mged console
16:41.19*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
16:55.06deltazapyou just have to catch them quickly ;)
17:34.13tedcxbrlcad: cvs update -are rel-7-8-4 -dP seems to compile, benchmark,test and run. Thanks for the help.
18:20.41brlcadtedcx: glad to hear it
18:41.13``ErikMaloeran
18:54.15deltazapwoo woo, finished volume II tutorial
18:56.27``Erikw00t
18:56.59brlcadsweet
19:02.38IriX64sweet if you zoom out the drawing, the model is painted much faster
19:06.02``Erikum, I'm going to guess that the speedup is inversely proportional to the number of pixels being drawn? O.o cuz, um, that is kinda... y'know, expected :)
19:06.30IriX64who put that beauty in the code :)
19:07.37IriX64``Erik people think my os is a toy.... I point to the threads picture... lets see yours do that.
19:07.45``Erikwhat threads picture?
19:08.05IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
19:09.47``Erikwhat, run an emulator?
19:10.05IriX64start 100000 threads
19:10.09``Erikum
19:10.11``ErikI do it all the time?
19:10.13IriX64err 10000
19:10.26IriX64on windows?
19:10.34``Erikno, fbsd and solaris are where I've really tanked up threads
19:10.51``Eriklinux sucked back in the day because it got sputtery around 16k threads on my 120mhz cyrix
19:10.57IriX64me too with os/2 but os/2 has a 4095 uppewr limit
19:10.58``Erikwhen fbsd could keep grinding up to 100k
19:11.03``Eriksolaris got obscene
19:11.08IriX64heh
19:11.17IriX64define obscene
19:11.54IriX64how do you spawn a thread in ansi c
19:11.54``Erikthousands and thousands of processes, each with thousands and thousands of threads, and the machine was still responsive?
19:11.57IriX64yes
19:12.09IriX64they obeyed the priorities assigned
19:12.16``Erikansi C has no notion of threads, but the POSIX library for doing them is called pthreads
19:12.46IriX64so if you're going to code to ansi spawn and exec are your only options?
19:12.56``Erikspawn?
19:13.02IriX64spawnv
19:13.13IriX64much like exec
19:13.13``Erikexec replaces the running process, and is not ansi, it's POSIX
19:13.27``Erikyou're probably thinking of fork(), which is also not ansi, it's posix
19:13.35IriX64wait now ansi supports exec
19:13.45``Erikansi C has no notion of processes, threads, etc... those are library or kernel supplied
19:14.15IriX64my reference says exec is supported shall i pastebin it
19:15.22``Erikexec* is an os facility, not a C lang facility, or even a C stdlib facility
19:15.52``Erikhttp://www.acm.uiuc.edu/webmonkeys/book/c_guide/    <-- that is ansi C.
19:16.48IriX64my mistake, wrong os mea culpa
19:16.57``Erik(are ya thinking of system() ?)
19:17.05IriX64maybe
19:17.46IriX64ahhh a dos function, sorry ``Erik
19:18.01IriX64any and body else who beleived me :)
19:18.15IriX64err anybody
19:18.21MaloeranYou can't do multiple threads or processes with ANSI C
19:18.24``Erikposix has a whole family of exec* functions, like execl, execle, execlp, execvp, ..
19:18.52IriX64windows supports _beginthread
19:18.52``Erikmal, I'm putting a very big ugly present in cvs for you
19:19.19``Erikwindows also supports pthreads, but you're on your own for function prototypes there *cough*
19:19.32IriX64process.h?
19:19.42MaloeranErik, a coherent ray bundle benchmark? :)
19:19.58``Erikno, a big endian cache file :)
19:20.22MaloeranAll right, thanks
19:21.18``Erik24m, so it'll take a bit to upload
19:22.16MaloeranWhich model? You could have picked a light one
19:23.23``Eriktrucks
19:23.35IriX64nice reference page ``Erik thankyou, added to my favs list.
19:24.05``Erikirix: it was a quick google...
19:24.22IriX64ill have to learn how to do google eyes :)
19:24.25``Erikmebbe I should adone city, heh :)
19:25.08``Erikirix: with your pics, the black helicoptor images are photon mapped?
19:25.22IriX64yes with no light source
19:25.31IriX64moonlight :P
19:25.37``Erikwell, of course there was a light source, there was just nothing to contain the photons
19:26.04IriX64i meant no sun
19:26.20``Erikyou should carve a hollow box and put the mi28 on the floor so we can see the pretty soft shadows
19:26.56IriX64im not a serious brlcadder ``erik that sounds too much like work :)
19:27.05IriX64``Erik too
19:27.51``Erikum, make two boxes, one slightly bigger than the other... then type something like "c box.r box1.s - box2.s"
19:28.08``Erikthen get the light source, helicoptor and camera all in the box and render it
19:28.11IriX64just a sec let me bring it up well try
19:31.11IriX64ok extraced the sun and then havoc pressed multi-pane defaults and ive got havoc on the screen now what.
19:31.18IriX64extracted too
19:31.33``Erikoh, and if you google for mi28 or "mi 28 havoc", you'll see lots of sies with specs, pictures, some movies, ... :) it was an impressive machine, probably a good thing the russians decided it was too expensive O:-)
19:31.43``Erikmake a box
19:31.47``Erikthen make another box
19:31.50IriX64what size
19:31.54IriX64sizes
19:31.54``Erikbig
19:32.27``Eriklike, bigger than the havoc
19:32.32IriX64s0 and s1 created
19:32.38IriX64arb 8 both
19:32.43IriX64arb8
19:35.06IriX64didn't even know it was called mi28
19:36.40IriX64wife calls be right back
19:45.24IriX64what do I do now ``Erik?
19:48.28``Erikone arb8 is bigger than the other?
19:48.34IriX64no
19:48.45IriX64dont know how to do that
19:49.02``Erikwell, get one on the screen, sed it, click edit, click scale, and do like p 0.99
19:49.04``Erikthen 'accept
19:49.26``Eriky'know, this exercise is probably in the modeling tutorial
19:49.57IriX64you offered
19:50.04IriX64i did the p 0.99
19:50.21``Erikok, it made one just he tiniest bit smaller, right?
19:50.27``Eriklike, say, 99% of the bigger ones size?
19:50.28IriX64right
19:50.37``Eriktype "accept" and hit enter
19:50.49IriX64ok
19:50.51``Erikthen create a combination where you subtract the smaller one from the bigger one
19:51.20IriX64``Erik this is a walk through, how is that done?
19:51.39``Erikthis is about to not become a walkthrough, but a point down a path :D
19:51.46IriX64heh ok
19:51.54IriX64which tutorial?
19:52.42``ErikVolumeII-Intruduction_to_MGED.pdf
19:52.49``Eriklesson 5, page 37
19:52.54IriX64ty
19:53.18IriX64now i need a pdf viewer sigh....
19:53.19``Erikpage 39 is subtraction, you want to subtract the smaller box from the bigger one
19:53.26``Erikno adobe reader?
19:53.30IriX64no
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20:01.50IriX64urf pkg_suckin read error now on photon mapping, ``Erik what'd you do :)
20:08.28``Erikwoops, my havoc is glass, heh
20:10.47IriX64kill works :)
20:10.59IriX64thanks to brlcad: for pointing that out
20:11.38IriX64wish to see my control screen?
20:12.22IriX64never mind its just like yours
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23:02.04IriX64Twingy: www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad  < ==== too much light :)
23:02.53IriX64how to build a star :)
23:14.26Twingygreat IriX64, you've demonstrated that 30 years of cad development is good for making yellow circles, here is your gold star
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23:27.25IriX64heh give me credit twingy im not running from the experts :)
23:28.11IriX64brlcad is 30 years old twingy? I didn't realize that.
23:28.27IriX64acad is what 12?
23:30.05brlcadsince '79 (since '83 for first release)
23:32.37IriX64explains why its so rich in feature set
23:33.39IriX64is it permissable to advertise it, we have a local steel mill here who builds thir own brake wheels for cars and such im sure they would be interested.
23:34.43IriX64Twingy i could try turning their machine shop onto g-cam if it's ready.
23:36.18IriX64that blog is for us i haven't let the url out to anybody outside the channel
23:41.29brlcadadvertising is always permissable, and generally encouraged if done well, not offensive, nor obtrusive, etc .. getting the word out is important
23:41.56IriX64ill let the steel mill know then, they are heavy into acad at the moment
23:47.07louipcI'm not completely certain, but I don't think steel mills really use cam software
23:47.35IriX64they have a machine shop louipc, latest nc gear
23:48.03IriX64twingy says he can produce tape louipc
23:48.38IriX64not sure of their platform tho, may still be a vax
23:49.59IriX64big mill 3rd largets in Canada
23:50.05IriX64larest too
23:50.12IriX64err largest grrr
23:51.45IriX64think the rank is Stelco=1 Dofasco-2 Algoma=3
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070327

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070327

00:38.50IriX64this things still calculating
00:42.38MaloeranWould anyone here be able to clarify a few things regarding conservation of momentum in fluid dynamics? Computation of the dynamic pressure isn't clear to me
00:43.12IriX64whats the circuit?
00:43.51IriX64calculate the gs factor that should help, forgotten the formula but it can be looked up
00:44.31Maloeran"gs" factor?
00:44.48IriX64feedback amplification factor
00:45.18MaloeranI don't think that's related
00:45.37IriX64ok dynamic pressure in which part?
00:46.14IriX64need a drawing to do this properly
00:46.27IriX64can u paste one
00:46.52IriX64err pastebin or do they allow such?
00:47.40IriX64need the time constant too
00:48.44MaloeranThat might be outside of your usual range. I'm wondering about the computation of the pressure caused by the conservation of momentum in fluid dynamics, hydrostatic pressure and gravitation are easily accounted for
00:49.22IriX64your pardon, i thought we were talking hydraulic circuits :)
00:50.10Maloeran:)
00:50.17deltazapMaloeran: hang on let me see if my fluid mechanics book is around
00:51.30IriX64mental note : fluid dynamics != (neccessarily) hydraulics
00:51.41IriX64:)
00:52.08deltazapruh roh
00:52.38IriX64deltazap where are you on the turorial?
00:52.50deltazapfinished it today :)
00:53.08IriX64wonderfull
00:53.27MaloeranAny lead or insight on the topic, deltazap? I'll figure it out eventually..
00:53.27IriX64are you going to get that mug made? :)
00:53.46deltazapIriX64: i just sent it off for production today :P
00:53.53IriX64:)
00:54.08deltazapMaloeran: i'll have plenty of insight on the subject as soon as i can find my book
00:56.15IriX64been a while since i looked at control systems :)
01:00.56IriX64thats what I like to see system idle process gets 0% cpu.
01:01.54IriX64means resources are being fully utilized for the jobs at hand.
01:03.20IriX64rt sure gets a good chunk :)
01:07.57deltazapMaloeran: are you looking at the differential form of the conservation of momentum or something else?
01:08.34deltazapwhat you're probably looking for is the Navier-Stokes equation, if that's true
01:10.20MaloeranRight, but unless I'm not looking at this right, it's not clear how to compute the pressure caused by the fluid momentum
01:12.16IriX64would that not be the upward flow of the fluid?
01:15.54deltazaptrying to form answer, hang on :P
01:17.34deltazapi'm trying to think of how to explain it, but i can't come up with anything really good off the top of my head
01:17.57MaloeranOh.. :)
01:18.56deltazapbasically, the movement of the flow causes an oh-so-little compression on the fluid, which is caused by the dynamic viscosity
01:19.40deltazapwhen you look at the Navier-Stokes equation, the du/dt term is only if you happen to have a changing fluid velocity over time
01:20.27deltazapif you have steady state flow, you can drop that term, move the dp/dx term over, and multiply by rho
01:20.59MaloeranThe flow isn't steady though
01:21.24deltazapmove it anyways :P
01:21.49deltazapit's been about a year since i even looked at thses problems :X
01:22.09deltazapso, you're given the fluid velocity as u(x,y,t)?
01:22.11MaloeranFluid dynamics are a bit out of my usual domain too, fairly interesting though
01:22.31deltazapwhat is your usual domain?
01:22.31MaloeranI'm not given anything but I can compute that from the hydrostatic pressure variations
01:22.51MaloeranProgramming ;), not really connected to the world of physics
01:23.36deltazapah, ok
01:24.21MaloeranAh hum, it's slowly beginning to make sense
01:26.14deltazapi'd be much more help if i had my other fluid mechanics book on me
01:28.03deltazapand if i could remember this stuff
01:28.49MaloeranEheh, thanks
01:29.11deltazapit's the differential forms that made all of us cross our eyes in class
01:31.02MaloeranAre you presently still studying?
01:32.27deltazapfluid mechanics? finished that class last summer
01:33.01deltazapmy degree?  still chugging along.  at least i can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel
01:41.16deltazapfluid mechanics is something we really couldn't go very indepth into without heavily hitting PDEs for our problems
01:46.17MaloeranQuite true. I'm beginning to like it though, it's a refreshing challenge
01:47.46deltazapit's so much more different than anything else that we study.  it's just so uncertain :)
01:48.31MaloeranAre you in physics? Along with some software programming I hope? :)
01:48.51deltazapactually...no...
01:48.51deltazapi'm in mechanical engineering
01:49.14deltazapwith a little bit of programming as a hobby
01:50.16Maloeran*nods* In the vast majority of sciences, I think good programming skills are a major advantage
01:51.13deltazapwe're required to take a intro to programming class that's done in maple/matlab
01:52.02deltazapit's a wonderful thing for those who don't know programming, but it's a bit hard to describe things to people when you want to speak of integers, floats, etc.
01:52.58deltazapit helps show how the two are related, but majority of the time, it's hard for people to see the crossover
01:54.04MaloeranFor mechanical engineers, I can imagine some computer science concepts may be confusing
01:54.57MaloeranI learned to write C such a long time ago, I think I was 12, the language is really wired in my thinking process
01:55.14deltazapthat happens to a lot of people :)
01:59.21deltazapmaple is great since it's a math environment that they can get things done quickly in, not to mention that it's interpreted but it can do some really weird things
02:00.44MaloeranSure, it may be all you need to cover a good range of needs. I would still recommend to pick up some C eventually, if you are interested that is
02:01.03deltazapi can read it quite well, writing is another matter....
02:01.33deltazapbut that should change since i have to do a project in my Cryptography class
02:01.52deltazapimplementing 100-digit RSA in C :X
02:02.37MaloeranSounds easy. I'll trade C programming guidance for fluid dynamic tips ;)
02:03.07deltazaphaha
02:08.34deltazapi'm sure the project won't be that bad, the more i read up on RSA
02:12.01*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
02:12.01*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
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02:15.10*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
02:29.02IriX64why does -ffast-math blow away my floating point precision?
02:43.32deltazapMaloeran: do you have a fluid mechanics book that has problems in it?
02:44.17deltazapif not, see if you can pick up a copy of "Fluid Mechanics" by Robert A. Granger, it's a Dover printed book so you know it's a steal at $35 :)
02:48.46MaloeranMy references are wikipedia and a 56000 lines Fortran program at the moment. Getting that book seems like a good idea, I assume there's some focus on computional fluid dynamics?
02:50.18deltazapnot really :X
02:51.46deltazapthe local college library will have the most information on CFD
02:56.58deltazapok, i'm not sure what happened to mged, but i'm getting some strangeness with zooming in
02:57.00Maloeran*nods* I think I got the basics right, but I need to integrate viscosity and turbulence into the model
02:57.40deltazapturbulence is going to be a pain
02:57.51MaloeranYes I'm sure
02:58.16deltazapjust about every formula changes when you go from laminar to turbulent flows
02:58.44deltazapfor some reason, when i zoom in now, the model just seems to disappear, but it hasn't done this before
02:59.23deltazapand i'm not zooming in that far
03:07.31deltazapand when i do a render at that zoom level, it appears just fine
03:07.43deltazapbut there's nothing in the model view
03:08.30Maloeranbrlcad really is the one who can help with mged around here
03:08.38deltazapyeah, i figured
03:08.40MaloeranOr occasionally Erik if you are lucky
03:17.49IriX64corrupted stack .... great :(
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03:32.06deltazapack!  now it's behaving!
03:32.09deltazapi don't get it!
03:32.34deltazapfigures mged would crash -_-
03:33.05MaloeranIf you describe the problem you had a bit, brlcad might be able to figure something out
03:33.46deltazapalright
03:36.05deltazapbrlcad: when i draw one of my files from the tutorial, it looks fine.  then, when i go to zoom in, portions of the model just disappear, but i know that i haven't clipped through them yet because when i do a quick raytrace, they appear as normal
03:37.39deltazapwhat's strange is that everything reappeared as normal right before mged just stopped responding
03:50.16deltazapit seems that only that one model file does it
04:51.51IriX64using code just generated to produce the .g files, neat trick :)
05:31.30Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/mingw/mingw_msys_instructions.txt
05:31.47Twingy^-- MinGW/MSys stuff if interested
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14:37.57CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: need AM_CONDITIONAL for BUILD_CUBIT
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17:11.35IriX64deltazap: my drawings... parts of them wink out as X tries to keep up depending on whatt I'm doing
17:12.26IriX64if you're using ogl tho, I don't know
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17:36.15deltazapi know that if you zoom in far enough, you start to clip into the model
17:36.41IriX64does it stay gone?
17:37.29deltazapno, i'll reappear
17:37.58deltazapbut the problem i had yesterday was that parts would disappear when i know that i hadn't clipped through it
17:38.14deltazapbut it's only  that one file, so i don't know
17:38.34IriX64not a quirk of the display manager then?
17:39.17deltazapdon't think so
17:40.07IriX64if its only one file... maybe like terra.g it too causes problems
17:42.25deltazapi'll check that one out as well
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19:35.02*** join/#brlcad dodi (n=dodi@p5493520f.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:35.10dodihello
19:35.31dodii am looking for a simple tool to create a ground plan of a room, including furniture
19:46.58dtidrow_worklol
19:48.09dtidrow_workwell, trying to use brlcad for that would be akin to using a MOAB to take out a bug  :-)
19:49.17dtidrow_worknow if you wanted to make a really nice looking raytraced image/movie of the resulting room, then brlcad would be useful
19:50.10brlcaddoable, though -- also depends moreso on the purpose of creating that plan, and what type of plan
19:51.10dtidrow_workwell, yeah, it's doable, but...
19:51.25dodii just need a simple 2d drawing.. to try moving furniture around and see whats best way to place them.. i dont need more features then this and dont want to learn using a big tool with rich features which i dont need at all
19:51.48dtidrow_workyeah, that's about what I thought
19:52.17dtidrow_worksomething like Visio for room planning  :-)
19:52.54brlcaddodi: yeah, then brl-cad will probably be overkill or at least not what you're looking for -- you can generate the model and diagrams easily enough, but the learning curve is steep
19:53.02brlcadsee the tutorials on the website to get an idea
19:53.08brlcadin particular, volume II
19:56.50dodithats really too much to read for my small requirements *gg*
19:58.10dodii tried finding something with google, but i got lost in hundreds of cad utilities ;)
19:59.43brlcadthere's only a couple open source projects -- nothing really comes close
19:59.50brlcadthere's a sea of commercial
19:59.51dtidrow_workheh, that's the problem with google - you generally get either hundereds of hits, or nothing at all
20:00.21dtidrow_workI wonder if dia could do the job...
20:00.37dtidrow_workassuming that dia has templates for typical room furniture, that is
20:03.23dodii will try dia.. looks good and simple at the first sight ;)
20:03.31dodithank you :-)
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21:57.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/ (vector_x86.h vector_fpu.h vector.h): fix fold() implementation problem (now left/right versions)
21:58.20CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: need to cache brep in specific structure, since internal goes away
21:59.36CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug shot routine (not returning the right answers yet ;-)
22:01.25CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: add region creation, so it's easy to raytrace
22:02.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (brep_simple.cpp Makefile.am): add simple unit cube, for debugging purposes
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22:07.48*** join/#brlcad tedcx (n=root@71.237.138.185)
22:26.46tedcxare there any examples in the CVS tree?
22:38.22tedcx<PROTECTED>
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070328

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070328

00:16.06brlcadtedcx: examples of what?
00:16.21brlcadin CVS, the db dir is just db/
00:16.55brlcadthey're in .asc format, you run asc2g to get the binary .g
00:20.31IriX64brlcad anything in there thats not in the source tarball?
00:20.57IriX64save me looking please :)
00:22.56brlcadin where?
00:23.06IriX64been perusing code, yyou have a whole magic number section, but in magic.c you put a default after the first case stament and efectivly short circuited the whole system.
00:23.42brlcadthat's fine, it still works, default only hits when .. it doesn't match otherwise
00:24.01IriX64no matter where you put default?
00:24.05brlcadno matter where
00:24.11IriX64ahh ok
00:24.20IriX64in db dir i was talking about
00:24.24brlcadit's just a label
00:24.27IriX64before i rambled
00:25.05pooliohey brlcad, you get my email some time ago?
00:28.26brlcadpoolio: yes I did
00:28.27brlcadthanks
00:28.42brlcadlooked good, I'll let you know what I find out
00:29.03pooliobrlcad: Ah, sorry well if you didn't I was going to say I had some corrections, but oh well :)
00:29.17brlcadthat's fine too, feel free to send it
02:57.51IriX64brlcad: you're not supposed to use goto's in a case statement ;)
02:58.11IriX64err switch
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12:50.22brlcadmoin rossberg
12:54.15rossberggood afternoon brlcad
13:01.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: move does not return a value
13:08.21brlcadjason almost has brep ray-tracing working, in a day or two hopefully
13:10.42rossbergbut not on MSVC 6.0 :-(
13:11.09rossberghowever, with some minor changes it will work here too
13:12.25brlcadI added the warning quell to configure for gcc that you mentioned
13:12.55brlcadstill some more work needed, and still have tcl 8.5 integration woes being sorted out
13:15.18rossbergi'm afraid we don't need to quell the warning because we don't need the friend statement
13:16.52brlcadyeah, I wondered that -- though it is still a bogus gcc warning
13:17.39brlcadkinda lame of them to default to "warn that you might be relying on our non-conformant old behavior"
13:21.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/ (vector.h vector_fpu.h vector_x86.h):
13:21.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: VC++ 6.0 adaptions:
13:21.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: removed (redundant) struct keywords
13:21.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: removed the unnecessary friend statements (operator<< does not access private class members), they cause trouble only
13:22.23rossbergnow it works for me :-) i hope it works for you too
13:23.38rossbergi would like to test it on ftp.brlcad.org, but the compiler is to old
13:23.51rossbergit is lacking the "max" function
13:24.38rossberghowever, one time i'll reactivate my linux ssh connections to sourceforge
13:26.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: include the external plugins in the dist regardless of being enabled/disabled for compilation
13:27.03rossbergnext month i'll be on holiday (with some interruptions)
13:28.14brlcadhmm.. it should have max() just perhaps not in the same namespace or it's an extension
13:28.54brlcadwould need to eventually get it working on 3.3 regardless -- that's not that old a compiler :)
13:29.08brlcadnot nearly as old as vc6 .. :)
13:29.52rossbergi know, it's from the last century
13:33.19brlcada whole month on vacation?
13:33.37brlcadthat's crazy/cool
13:37.21rossbergthere are 13 days left from 2006, plus 2 days easter
13:43.34CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: the cause for the no-non-template-friend problem in vector.h was removed
14:42.52rossbergbrlcad: sorry, "fmax" is missing on ftp.brlcad.org
14:47.27brlcadah
14:47.48brlcadcould/should probably add the various c99 math macros that one might often find missing
14:49.01brlcadparticularly for min/max
14:49.35brlcadi have similar checks in other projects for std::min std::max
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18:20.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: bug fixes - simple brep cube now renders (some acne, though). twisted brep still has problems, argh.
18:22.00CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (brep_simple.cpp brep_cube.cpp): some tweaks to the geometry.
18:55.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/kdtree.c: test the malloc instead of trying to dereference a void ptr to test the malloc...
18:58.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: Use "tienet_master_socket_list" instead of undeclared "tienet_master_socke_list". Don't people try to compile before committing anymore?
18:59.12brlcadnot in that dir until the python/sdl checks are improved
18:59.33``Erikhuh?
18:59.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: the variable is "isst_master_observer_frame", not "isst_master_observer".
18:59.48``Erikyou're on a branch or something?
19:00.15``Erikthose're the only 3, MFC?
19:00.28brlcadhuh?
19:00.56brlcadi was answering the "?"
19:01.21``Erikoh, in the commit msg? ehehe, that was, uh, rhetorical :)
19:01.53``Erik<-- very much using adrt these days, so'z can handle any adrt related patches that come through, toss 'em my way
19:02.06``Erikfor the next, uh, week or so
19:02.36brlcadthat was just a slew of simple checks done to appease someone on a tracker
19:02.53brlcaddidn't have a means to compile test, so the spelling/typos aren't too surprising
19:03.09brlcadweren't any logic changes
19:04.18``Erikyeah, malloc guard *shrug* but, uh, node->data=malloc(); if(!*node->data){... ? O.o
19:04.29``Erikhehehe :D
19:05.14brlcadmeh, just a typo
19:12.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the Cubit Makefile and traverse into that dir
19:14.14CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/rt.tcl: add a checkbox toggle to the raytrace control panel that allows the framebuffer to be enabled/disabled more quickly than hitting one of the menu options.
19:19.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: framebuffer toggle added to raytrace panel in mged
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19:21.39IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/413889
19:21.51IriX64can somebody expain how this works to me?
19:23.25IriX64its the second condition im having trouble understanding
19:24.09``Eriklook at the cdecl program
19:25.17IriX64where?
19:25.27``Erikare you using cygwin?
19:25.34IriX64yes
19:25.44``Erikthere might be a package in cygwin, perhaps in the devel category
19:25.52IriX64ty
19:26.18IriX64wrote a little thing the & comes up with the size of the ptr
19:26.40IriX64what bother s me is why doesn't it fail, that thing will never evaluate a 0
19:26.46IriX64as 0
19:27.57IriX64and if it comes up true it *should trigger the error thing
19:28.04IriX64but its not
19:30.03``Eriksure it does, if _ptr=0, then 0&0xffffffff = 0
19:30.25``Erik'cept, uh... O.o huh
19:30.28IriX64:)
19:30.30IriX64ok
19:30.35``Erikno, I'm off
19:30.37brlcadthat macro basically says "make sure the pointer isn't 0, isn't -1, and matches the magic specified as the argument -- else call bu_badmagic() which aborts
19:30.45``Eriksizeof(long)-1 will be like &0x3
19:30.50``Erikor &0x7
19:30.59``Erikit makes sure the pointer is aligned?
19:31.00IriX643 on my machine
19:31.16``Erikso I guess no stealing low bits for flags O:-)
19:31.27IriX64i see not guaranteed to be same on different archs?
19:31.50brlcadhmm.. that sizeof() is fishy
19:32.06IriX64badmagic.c uses size_t tho not long
19:32.13``Erik32b machines will be 3, 64b might be 7 or 3, ... *shrug* the size of a long is not fixed in the spec
19:32.35``Erikshould be sizeof(size_t)-1 I'd guess *shrug*
19:33.00IriX64was trying to see whos right badmagic.c or the macro.
19:33.11brlcadnothing in bu is "supposed" to be using a size_t (until your recent change)
19:33.15brlcadand that was intentional
19:33.43IriX64:)
19:34.20IriX64btw i compiled gcc so it runs in native windows ``Erik, a wonderous sight.
19:34.49IriX64now for a gui ;)
19:34.53dtidrow_workwhy not just use mingw?
19:35.04IriX64i prefer gcc4.1.2
19:35.08dtidrow_workah
19:35.50IriX64relies on cygwin1.dll but what the hey it compiles and links.
19:36.10IriX64just have to set your paths to the libs and all that
19:36.53IriX64the hello worlsd program it produxes runs on windows
19:37.19IriX64reminds me i have to prove it does *not need the dll ill be back
19:39.08MaloeranUse -mwindows to remove cygwin1.dll dependency, also removes the Posix compatibility layer
19:42.40``Erik-mno-cygwin I thought *shrug* but that was a while ago
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19:45.47IriX64bwahhahahahah -mno-cygwin and it works ``Erik, compile like this gcc -mno-cygwin t.c
19:46.10IriX64produced the prettiest little a.exe ive ever seen
19:46.54IriX6412409 bytes big (it says hello and printers out some stuff)
19:49.57IriX64for real ``Erik it runs on my other boxen that has never seen cygwin
19:50.57``Erikayup
20:04.43MaloeranIf only ./configure could be multi-process
20:05.20MaloeranOh oops, it is -mno-cygwin. -mwindow is to create a win32 gui program
20:05.53brlcadno kidding
20:06.04brlcadif I could have hacked that in easily, I would have already
20:06.52``Erikparallelizing the autogen/config process? it'd be akin to making a self-parallelizing programming language on-top of posix sh..
20:06.56brlcadbut that'd be one fugly configure script that'd be hard as hell to debug if/when there were threading issues
20:07.30MaloeranTo me, that's another sign that autoconf is broken :)
20:07.35brlcadcan't really parallelize autogen.sh itself -- though they could make autoconf/automake parallel
20:07.42MaloeranIndeed
20:07.49``Erikwhat, that all it needs is a posix shell? that's one of the biggest boons of it
20:08.00``Erikand why it kicks scons&friends asses
20:08.12Maloeran./configure often takes longuer than the actual compilation with enough cores
20:08.38``Erikheh, make bigger programs? :D (be nice if there was a fast system cache of things, though)
20:09.30brlcadthere is an extensive caching system, but and you can create system caches that are used .. --cache-file option
20:09.43MaloeranMmhm, I think I'm addicted to computational fluid dynamics. For now anyway
20:10.01``Erikbe addicted to delivering rayforce on, um, saturday? :D
20:10.07brlcadwe have a lot of tests that don't cache or test for cached at the moment too
20:10.19MaloeranSaturday, so soon? Oh hum :)
20:10.28``Erikmar31, right?
20:10.46MaloeranRight. You guys will have access to the cvs for further updates though
20:12.32``Eriktheir cvs pserver is being retarded for me
20:13.01MaloeranThe mail notification thing is broken, the rest seems fine
20:13.08``ErikI get lock issues
20:13.25MaloeranOh yes, I got that too.. but I think the code still updates?
20:13.46``Erikyes, but I can't get that cache file on it
20:14.20MaloeranConnection refused on 69.250.155.85:26877
20:15.48MaloeranI should have hosted cvs at home. They apparently spent $5k to get that gforge server, or whatever it was, recommended by Lee although it never became usable
20:19.15``Erikgforge is a dandy tool... I thought they were gonna virtualize it? why have they been sitting on their hands?
20:19.16``Erik(and $5k is chump change)
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20:31.18MaloeranChump change for them I guess, it was still a waste. Anyone could just have hosted that at home
20:31.19Maloeran( and it would have been up a tiny bit faster )
20:31.19``Erikoh, yay
20:31.20``Erik/usr/brlcad/HEAD/lib/librt.so: undefined reference to `_ZNSo9_M_insertEPKcl@GLIBCXX_3.4.9'
20:31.20MaloeranThat's a neat function name
20:31.22``Erikc++ crap
20:31.24MaloeranThanks for the big endian cache
20:31.24``Eriknp, hope it helps
20:31.24``Erikcvs server: [15:16:09] waiting for cvs's lock in /usr/local/cvsrayforce/rayforce
20:31.24``Erik:/
20:31.25MaloeranOh yes, I had that too
20:32.06brlcadlooks like insert(), some glibc internal
20:32.06``Erikstdc++ actually
20:32.06``ErikGLIBCXX
20:32.06brlcadthat was implied
20:32.40``Eriklinking with g++ seems to fix it... but it's not a damn c++ program *grouse* :(
20:32.40brlcadrun it through filt
20:32.40brlcadwhat's the actual symbol?
20:32.40``Erikhm, -lstdc++ fixes it, too
20:33.08``Erik'filt'?
20:33.08``Erikdoens't seem to be on that machine
20:33.08brlcadecho "_ZNSo9_M_insertEPKcl" | c++-filt
20:33.08brlcador echo "_ZNSo9_M_insertEPKcl" | c++-filt2
20:33.33``Erikah, c++filt
20:33.44``Erikstd::ostream::_M_insert(char const*, long)
20:34.20MaloeranNeat, I just learned something then
20:34.31brlcadyeah, internal template foo on a stream operator somewhere
20:34.56brlcad``Erik: check config.log -- there's a test for it, see why it failed
20:35.09``Erikum, this isn't in BRL-CAD, this is something that uses librt and libtie
20:35.27brlcadhmm
20:35.49brlcadlibrt should be linking against -lstdc++ so that's resolved
20:36.12``Erikhm, it's actually listed in the ldd of librt, odd
20:37.48brlcadgrep LIBSTD src/librt/Makefile
20:37.53``Erikthe quad opteron, ~/src/rtcmp/build/amd64*
20:38.08brlcadshould be two lines
20:38.43``Erikyeah... it's there, and right.. and ldd on the librt.so gives the right dep lib.. :/ *shrug*
20:39.36``Erik<-- scratches his head
20:40.03``ErikBRL-CAD was compiled with gcc42, yet librt references:         libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/local/lib/gcc-4.1.2/libstdc++.so.6 (0x80121d000)
20:40.59brlcadthat's why
20:41.09brlcadminor ABI incompatibility
20:41.25``Erikyeah
20:41.31jack-so it still builds perfectly with 4.0.1 right?
20:41.39brlcadthere's a minithread on gcc-bugs mailing list about it on x86_64-portbld-freebsd6.2
20:41.39``Erikg++ sucks for that...
20:41.52``Erikthis is a completely seperate program, jack-... it just USES librt... :)
20:41.54brlcadspecific to 4.2
20:41.58jack-oh ok
20:43.44``Erikweird, g++42 must be broken on that machine
20:43.54brlcaddist seems to be refixed now
20:44.13``Erikadding /usr/local/lib/gcc-4.2.0 to to LD_LIBRARY_PATH makes it all peachy :/
20:44.19brlcadheh
20:56.01dliis gcc-4.2.0 released?
20:57.52``Eriknot quite
20:57.54``ErikO:-)
20:59.11IriX64i think ive got 4.3x somewhere tried compiling it... missing bits
21:06.08IriX64err gcc 4.3 somesnapshot :)
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21:49.10zorro1978i want to try brlcad
21:49.26zorro1978i have just installed .deb file with dpkg -i
21:50.02zorro1978all seems to be ok, but i don't know wich is the executable to run
21:50.13zorro1978someone can help me?
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22:41.24IriX64i'll short circuit it, write my own uname.exe i guess.
22:44.10IriX64should be kosher, it's not going anywhere
23:11.38louipc_<PROTECTED>
23:12.01louipccheers
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070329

00:11.22IriX64the fairies just dropped in, going to be a good spring, summer, fall and winter haven't made up their minds yet
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07:40.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
07:40.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: VC++ 6.0 does not like near, far (obsolete keyword error)
07:40.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: operator= should return a reference to *this
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13:55.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/ (tri.h adrt/adrt.c): use linear fastf_t buf for tri data instead of typedef on typedef on typedef
13:58.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/tri.c:
13:58.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: Move to linear fastf_t buffers. Radical simplification. Proper endian
13:58.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: safety added/tested.
14:59.26MaloeranYou aren't the only one
14:59.34Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6506027.stm  -  Yay
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15:08.42``Erikoh, but they'll install the wrong linux, not only htat, they'll install it all wrong
15:08.50``Erik:D
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15:22.09clock_``Erik: and then all will turn into hardcore trolls and accuse each other from trolling in a huge flamewar tsunami
15:22.31``ErikO.o
15:23.10clock_``Erik: do you mean the same modding as in slashdot?
15:23.15``Erikyeah :D
15:23.17clock_What does -1 mean?
15:23.23``Erikdown a point...
15:23.52``Erikusually it's like "+1 insightful" or "-1 troll"
15:23.58clock_can you mod -2?
15:24.07``Erikbut, uh, relevance seems to be a bad thing in slashdot
15:24.07clock_aha -1 relevant hehe
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15:24.30clock_yeah and relevance also increases the probability that you'll be accused from trolling
15:24.30``Erikno, but if enough people mod up, the score goes up
15:25.03clock_and then you can see the statistics how many people said troll how many relevant how many insightful etc.?
15:25.28clock_interesting that projects like gEDA, BRL-CAD or Ronja usually have an easy discussion
15:25.54clock_and projects like Linux or OpenBSD or Gentoo are very sensitive to exploding into a trolllabelling fit
15:26.07``Erikpeople get religion about funny things
15:26.25clock_i. e. in-depth discussion is impossible
15:27.11``Erikit's the people with little to no knowledge that really get flamey about things, usually
15:27.32clock_or personality disorder developers like theo de raadt
15:27.48``Erikthey'll spot one minor wart on whatever isn't their favorite and focus on it, ignoring the 8 zillion good things
15:27.55clock_;-)
15:27.58``Erikand conveniently ignoring the warts on their own
15:28.41clock_You mean realloc is slow when it has to move the block?
15:29.50``Erikdoug leas malloc does slight of hand to remap pages, so realloc across page boundries is pretty cheap... phkmalloc forces memory contiguous, so if you can't take the next page, it allocates in a completely new area, copies the old data, then frees the old area
15:30.32``Erikthe pathological case gives you a malloc/copy/free cycle every realloc
15:31.24``Erikif you have a program that reads a file stupidly, like read a page, realloc, read the next page, ad nauseum... it shows :) (but if you were to, say, stat the file, allocate the size and read it... or mmap, it ain't an issue)
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15:32.26``Erikchaining buffers linked list style also "fix" it at the cost of losing contiguouity (sp?) during the read
15:32.37``Erikoi, timbert
15:33.44joevalleyfieldmy presence is random
15:35.23``Erikwell, I d'no
15:35.33``Erikhe hides in a dark cave with a club and screams at children
15:37.44``Erikand EATS TEHIR BONES
15:37.55clock_BONES!!!!11111
15:38.04``Erik!!@!~@~!!!~!ONE!~@!~
15:39.04clock_actually I thought it should be possible to use BRL-CAD to produce some kind of industrial 3D rendered art
15:39.25``Erikin what sense?
15:39.34clock_I saw often posters for technical things including some kind of artistically processed blueprints, diagrams or wireframe models
15:40.06clock_so one could either use rt-edge to produce such linedraw pictures, or straight rt to make colour pictures
15:40.13clock_modeling of stylized technical elements should be easy
15:40.17``Erikoh, sure, um, the plot routines generate rough wireframe, or you could tesselate and generate wireframe... and if you want to raytrace things, the shaders are fairly easy to write, check out src/liboptical
15:40.46clock_can one write a script / little program to generate "landscapes" in ASCII?
15:40.56clock_To make e.g. repeating changing patterns etc.?
15:41.20``Erikum, there is a program to generate random dsp's
15:41.28clock_what is a random dsp?
15:41.31``Erikwhich are good for gnenerating terrain
15:41.36``Erikdsp is kinda like a heightfield map
15:41.44clock_no I don't mean real landscape
15:42.09``Eriklike if you generated a 2d plasma image and fed that to POV as a heightfield
15:42.11clock_I mean for example a bunch of low cylinders with different colours, positions and diameters
15:42.31``Erikoh, I'd imagine a tcl script could do that easily enough
15:42.45``Erikor if you want to get fancy, a procdb
15:42.51clock_can I specify the geometry in ASCII without trying to parrot the ASCII dump?
15:43.23``Erikby 'ascii dump', do you mean the .asc form of a .g file?
15:43.24joevalleyfieldwrite an mged script and pipe it to mged?
15:43.39clock_that's an idea
15:43.46clock_can I do just cat script | mged
15:43.48clock_?
15:43.48``Erikmged -c is nifty :)
15:44.04clock_can't get man mged is there a page?
15:44.15``ErikMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/man man mged
15:45.48clock_wow
15:46.19clock_hmm mged -c asks the user at start for something, is it gonna work?
15:46.27clock_Or do I need to prepend an answer?
15:46.37joevalleyfieldit should work
15:46.47joevalleyfieldit should detect that the input isn't coming from a terminal
15:47.13clock_oh yeah seems so and then it doesn't display the graphics
15:47.18``Erik$ echo 'tops' | mged -c ktank.g
15:47.18``Erik_GLOBAL             ktank/              metaball.r/R
15:47.18``Erikair/                ktank-facets
15:47.24clock_that's actually quite handy
16:44.12CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/partm.c: internal functions should be static
16:45.48CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/dry/dry.c: return negative radius for bounding sphere, as this is not a legit engine
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17:29.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: add notion of views
17:30.19CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: add "golden rays", begin move to orthos view instead of "same ray"
17:54.40CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: add some more "interesting" ray directions
17:55.59CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: show ray packets for visual inspection... will be automated later
17:57.46CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: uh, normalize the right dir vectors...
18:05.12CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: File->_R is raytrace, not renderview. Fixes bug 1687710
18:18.01``Erikamusing, the mailing lists on sf don't escape the body, so'z the it tries to parse C diffs as html in the web thingy O.o
18:45.23brlcadheh, or just mged -c ktank.g tops
18:45.56brlcadanything after the db throws it into single command mode
19:00.07``Erikthe idea was to have a long script that he can cat into it :)
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19:01.08``Erikmged -c < cmdsoutthewazoo
19:04.12louipceh?
19:07.53brlcadyeah, but then echo doesn't show that well :)
19:08.10brlcada herenow doc also works well
19:08.20brlcadmged -c file.g <<EOF
19:08.21brlcadls
19:08.22brlcadtops
19:08.23brlcadEOF
19:11.10``Erikthe echo was to vrfy tims statement :)
19:13.55brlcadah, true dat
20:04.30``Erikperhaps not o.O :D
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070330

00:20.06*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871510.dsl.bell.ca)
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02:46.11IriX64www/irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
02:46.28IriX64windows brlcad at work
02:49.42brlcadwhere'd the shuttle model come from?
02:58.05IriX64some site i found on the web, shall i search again, i can probably find it
03:19.11brlcadnah, just curious
03:19.20brlcadyou converted from dxf or something i presume
03:19.32brlcadlooks like there's multiple top-level objects being displayed/rendered
03:24.06IriX64yes from a dxf
03:26.28IriX64http://www.escape.de/~quincunx/dxf/   this site
03:26.52IriX64this one is a dxf
03:46.00brlcadyou can't directly convert a dwg
03:46.07brlcadthat's a 2D file format, not solid geometry
03:46.25brlcadif you can get someone to turn that into a dxf, then there is some potential import paths
03:50.33IriX64mmm ty
04:00.53deltazapbrlcad: how good is the converter at working with dxf's?
04:01.40brlcadit's not fully tested with several of the 2D dxf types, but it is a fairly comprehensive converter
04:02.27brlcadit should even bring in the 2D items now using the cvs head version
04:02.31brlcadas sketch objects
04:06.20deltazapi learned today how powerful the mged editing functions are
04:07.29deltazapmuch better than trying to click and drag things around
04:10.59IriX64theres something to be said about a good command line
04:11.43IriX64not to mention that beautiful "exec" anything :)
04:12.30deltazapit forces you to know the geometry
04:12.47IriX64yes, a good thing
04:14.25brlcaddeltazap: ahh, excellent.. that's one of several karmatic delight moments that come with experience that just can't be easily explained
04:15.21brlcadakin to explaining the true flexibility and power of the unix command prompt to a new user
05:04.53IriX64ki6ijg: sorry about that info thing, was just testing something
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09:46.08IriX64man... bu_badmagic() and bu_badmagic_tcl are not consistent...
09:46.31IriX64files badmagic.c and bu_tcl.c
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13:24.06``Erikerm, not consistant in what regard? and why would they be? O.o
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13:52.45jackhandsome69anyone know anything about autocad 2006 here?
13:53.03``Eriknot I
13:54.01archivistI gave up on autocad 1
13:54.16docelic:))
13:55.34jackhandsome69ok.. was just looking for a way to batch plot .dwg's out of autocad 2006
13:57.59brlcadjackhandsome69: heh
13:58.41brlcadi suppose i shouldn't take too much offense to the support request for a commercial competitor :)
13:59.16brlcadalas, I don't know the answer to your question other than doing a bunch of lisp scripting on the autocad command line
13:59.26brlcadand how to exactly go about that.. have fun :)
14:00.06``Erikheh, (for-each plot '(dwg1 dwg2 dwg3)) ?
14:00.35``Erik<-- scheme-head :D
14:02.29d_rossbergbrlcad: i send a message to the brlcad-users list, unfortunately from an unregistered account, now it waits for administrator's approval
14:02.56brlcadd_rossberg: k, I'll pass it
14:04.39d_rossbergthanks
14:05.04``Erik<-- scratches chin and ponders
14:05.28``ErikI may have a new weekend project :D
14:06.54archivistlike gmail trys but fails
14:10.54``ErikI never liked gmail
14:10.54``Erikeven yahoo is more usable... even the NEW yahoo...
14:11.02``Erik<-- write his own client after getting annoyed with pine and mutt and running into crashes in xfmail at ~10k emails :/
14:11.58``Erikbut I'm getting tired of writing and fixing regex rules for pre-sorting :)
14:12.21``Erikheheheh... Some people, when confronted with a problem, think I know, Ill use regular expressions. Now they have two problems. --Jamie Zawinski, in comp.lang.emacs
14:12.27archivistI like the 2.8 gig of free storage
14:12.34``Erikyahoo is claiming unlimited
14:13.16archivistfor me yakspew over does the adverts
14:14.22``Erikhehehe, "ad-block" on firefox :)
14:14.26``Erikalso; who cares about 2.8g...
14:14.27``Erik$ df -k | grep -v ^File | awk '{print $2}' | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024),' | bc -l
14:14.27``Erik468.18545913696289062500
14:14.57``Erik(that's gigs for those who can't be arsed to read my mess)
14:15.16``Erikall local disk, it's my "fileserver"
14:15.19``Erik:D
14:16.31``ErikI should tkae a pic.. it's a horrible thing... a $300 wally world special, replaced the ps with something beefier... but the ps blocks the cpu fan, so the machien is open on its side witht he power supply sitting ontop of the 5.25" bay (loose), and 4 drives stacked one on another next to it (loose), plus the one bolted in the machine :)
14:19.17archivisthehe i know the build method well
14:20.59archivistmy early linux box 10 scsi stacked loose psu from another box(still in it)
14:22.23``Erikhehehe, I had a dec prioris with a stack of old 2g barracuda scsi's stacked and kinda held in place by the ribbon... dual p133... massive ps, and the drives weren't scsi... swear the entire coffee table sized machine twitched whwen ya hit the button and the drives started cranking
14:23.27archivistcurrent box i am using for surfing/ #mysql bot www.archivist.info/thewench normal sans case method
14:23.33``Eriklooked kinda like http://www.anfa.org/image.php?img=561 except the door was broken off and it was... well... crap
16:48.54deltazapok, i know that i had asked about this the other day, but i'm still not sure about it
16:49.16deltazapreplacing a primative with a region
16:49.30deltazapfor instance, i'm trying to model something built from 80/20
16:50.04deltazapso, i created the structure using arb8s and then i was going to go back and replace them with the 8020 models
16:51.19deltazaper...8020 region
16:52.19deltazapi'm guessing that i'd have to make the 8020 region the same length of the primative that i want to replace
17:15.09``Erikerm, regions are built out of combinations and primitives...
17:21.24deltazapyes yes, but i want to replace an existing primitive in the model with a newly created region
17:22.33``Erikerm, but you NEED those primitives to build the new region... "r thing.r part1.s u part2.s", then you can "B thing.r"
17:22.56``Erik(or d part1.s;d part2.s)
17:23.03deltazapi was going to use a new set a primatives for the region, then swap out that primative with the new region
17:23.39``Erikerm, so you're going to ... clone primitives... to build the region... then delete the old primitives?
17:25.47deltazapi wouldn't need to clone them
17:27.08``Erikone of us doens't understand what you're trying to do :) (probably me)
17:27.26deltazaperm...ok, i'm probably not thinking about it right
17:28.24``Erikcombinations are built from combinations and/or primitives... regions are built from combinations and/or primitives... *EVERY* bit of geometry resolves down to primitives as the leaves of the tree
17:29.49deltazapyes
17:30.10*** join/#brlcad KWartS (n=KWartS@202.137.21.109)
17:50.22``Erik"back in the day, they had transaction safe databases: we called them file systems."
17:54.45*** join/#brlcad KWartS (n=KWartS@202.137.21.109)
17:56.20brlcadnow we don't even have transaction safe file systems ;)
17:58.28deltazapwith regards to journaled file systems: "if the file doesn't commit, you must acquit"
17:59.11``Erik<PROTECTED>
18:03.31deltazapis there any way to change a parameter when in matrix editing mode?
18:11.07deltazapi can pick the scale x option but the only way to give it a value is by using oscale command, but that only does multiples of the current shape, not absolute distance
18:14.56IriX64``Erik when you get it up to Ektbytes i'll be interested :)
18:22.44``Erikexa, ya mean?
18:22.58IriX64yah ;)
18:23.19IriX64the storage superhighway :P
18:23.43``Erikhm, talk to me again in 11 years
18:23.54deltazapbrlcad had mentioned using the push command, but idk :X
18:24.01IriX64I don't age well :)
18:24.20``Erikme, either, I fight it tooth and nail...
18:24.34IriX64yah so why do we *always lose?
18:25.13``ErikYOU might be losing...
18:25.20IriX64heh ty
18:27.03IriX64brlcad: might have found my shared libraries issue.
18:27.47brlcaddeltazap: the push/xpush command doesn't actually "change" your geometry.. it just removes the matrices from your combinations and regions, applying the transformations directly to the primitives
18:28.37``Erikbrlcad, tell me a bedtime story about wdb and instancing (which I assume is geometry talk for something akin to a pointer?)
18:28.38deltazapyeah, i'm seeing that now
18:29.13``Erik(in the frame of http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1547926&group_id=105292&atid=640805 )
18:29.55deltazapnow that i see that, what does a matrix describe exactly?
18:30.05deltazapthe tutorial never mentions matrices in it
18:30.22``Erikrotation, trnaslation, scaling, ...
18:31.55brlcadhomogenous coordination transformations ;)
18:32.10deltazapX_X
18:32.27``Erikone of the appendices of the opengl 'redbook' goes into glorious/horrifying detail
18:33.10``Erikum, you can get it at opengl.org in the documentation section
18:33.26brlcad``Erik: sounds like something that someone (becky in this case) has been told over the years to overcome other modeling & analysis issues
18:34.04brlcadinstancing in this case is very much like a pointer, just referencing something else instead of having actual unique objects (and *much* more importantly, unique regions)
18:34.13``Erikhm, I was thinking about adding it as a flag in g_qa, not sure how the wdb side of it would work
18:34.30``Erikso jsut two regions using the same primitive?
18:34.40brlcadpersonally, I don't think there's anything wrong with modelling left/right half if that's what they wanted to do
18:34.51brlcadthe problem is that other tools make assumptions
18:34.52``Erikor something of that nature? a reference count would solve it?
18:35.22brlcadit's not so easy because it is perfectly find to "instance" some things
18:35.26brlcads/find/fine/
18:35.53brlcadit's only important from a muves analysis results perspective usually (and future modelling ease of use)
18:35.59``Erikyeah, I got that... *shrug* it might be a misfeature, but *shrug* might be useful to someone
18:36.18``Erikand I'd rather not do the scr dance with them.
18:36.20brlcadseems like a misfeature to me.. compensating for a problem elsewhere
18:36.39``Erikhm, ccb fodder?
18:36.48brlcadit's like telling modellers that they shouldn't use a half-space to slice objects
18:37.38brlcadthe only problem with using half-spaces is that they are unoptimized, so it kills ray-trace performance .. as a modelling tool, it's rather straight-forward and understandable -- just as understandable as just "flipping" the left half a vehicle and calling it done
18:38.07brlcadif clone were completed, it would solve the "reference" problem
18:38.09``Erik*nod* I know in lightwave tutorials, I saw the 'mirror' approach being "normal"
18:38.23brlcadas clone does a deep copy
18:38.45brlcadyou could replace all references with copies as needed using it
18:39.14``Erikaight, I saw that pr as 'low hanging fruit' and figured I'd look into it... smells like ccb fodder *shrug* :)
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18:47.19brlcadmore cool would be refactoring g_qa into an api
18:47.50brlcadit's pretty much a perfect arbitrary resolution voxelizer if it were made into an API
18:47.58``ErikI was lookin' for simple mindless droll that could be hacked in without risking release schedule *shrug* :)
18:49.05IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos   <---- compatibility (Nothing to do with brlcad)
18:49.29IriX64:)
18:49.37IriX64just had to share :)
18:51.33brlcadstill not yet, though I didn't get back to it last night
18:52.25brlcadi'm actually not sure how to get it to readily find it's resources when the init.tcl is not generated, sitting in the source dir, and it's looking in the (empty) install locations
18:52.58brlcadI could readd the blind searching that it had, but that's so hackish
18:53.40brlcadwould not run btclsh until it's installed, but then that screws with the index files
18:53.58``Erikhrmph, in src/other/Makefile.am, have a ginormous listing of 'subcofnigure' files in EXTRA_DIST and avoid recursing into those dirs on dist?
18:54.26``Erikworsethanfailure.com ++
19:07.53``Erikaaaaand there it all went
19:13.33deltazapi know there has to be an easier way of doing what i'm doing
19:18.38deltazaphow does the matrix selection dialog and oed compare?  for instance, which side does the first matrix select window correlate to?
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19:32.23dtidrow_workO/T question: are there SATA->Parallel ATA converters?
19:33.10dtidrow_workie. I want to be able to use some older PATA hard drives with a new mobo that has several SATA connectors
19:44.27brlcaddtidrow_work: think of the path down to any primitive in a combination i.e. /path/to/some/primitive .. even if "path" is all you wanted to move
19:45.04brlcadmatrix selection and oed are identical in that you specify the right and left half (hence the two dialogs)
19:45.53brlcadif you wanted to apply a matrix edit to the instance of "some" in the object "path", it would be oed /path/to some/primitive
19:46.55dtidrow_work?
19:47.02brlcadvia the gui, it basically first asks you for which full path to primitive (/path/to/some/primitive) and then asks for where to place the matrix (some)
19:47.22brlcaddtidrow_work: oop, sorry -- that was meant for deltazap
19:47.23dtidrow_workah, you're really talking to deltazap
19:47.27brlcadtab completion
19:47.38dtidrow_workyeah, thought so  :-)
19:47.50dtidrow_workanyway, I found some: http://www.cooldrives.com/idehadrtosap.html
19:47.54brlcadheh
19:49.24dtidrow_worklooking to upgrade the guts of my home 'puter, but still be able to use existing hard and CD/DVD drives
19:49.44dtidrow_workthe one mobo I was looking at only had one PATA controller, but 4 SATA connectors
20:03.29deltazapbrlcad: thanks, i think i'm slowly understanding
21:24.46``Erikhttp://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=chicago+to+london&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=42.581364,112.148438&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=3&ll=46.437857,-42.890625&spn=37.174963,112.148438&om=1
21:24.48``Erikstep 20
21:25.59archivistthe swimming was step 26 on the one i saw earlier today
21:27.20``Erikah, heh
21:30.33archivistI cant look on this box but if that  goes through france there is an error , no road through the channel
21:31.32archiviststep 26: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=wilmington,+nc&daddr=london,+uk&sll=51.500197,-0.126197&sspn=0.132294,0.365639&layer=&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=3
21:31.44``Erikboston puts it at 9
21:33.28archiviststep 43 on that one from me is a bit wet
21:35.33``Erik43? the "swim 3465 miles"? I got that as #26
21:35.42``Erikor, wait, from your residence
21:35.43``Erikgotcha
21:36.40archivistoo does work on this box
21:37.19archiviststep 37 on the chicago to london
21:37.37archivistthat should be swim as well
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070331

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070331

00:53.30IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/417658     <------ brlcad, is this benign?
00:56.27brlcadentirely
01:04.17IriX64ty
02:01.26IriX64ki6igj: are you a serious user of brlcad?
02:03.32IriX64joevalleyfi: how about you, I haven't seen you two around here before, but i'm sure all are welcome to participate.
02:14.40IriX64don't mind me i'm the self appointed clown of the channel, not to be taken seriously.
03:42.37IriX64mmmm my mug has no handle :)
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18:11.00IriX64:)
18:21.15IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos            <---- too bad theres no hit counter on that thing, I'd know if anybodys interested :)
18:24.41IriX64draws to the screen much faster if i zoom out the drawing, I ve found, makes sense only one image to contend with
18:41.53IriX64heh ty
18:50.01IriX64heh have a look
18:58.20IriX64is there really a need for the traditional frame bufffer?
18:58.28IriX64err buffer
18:59.17IriX64doesn't hurt anything why not right?
19:00.09IriX64back to lurk
19:00.14IriX64err work :)
21:01.04IriX64brlcad: which method is right? the macro or the file badmagic.c? (the ptr alignment check im talking about)
21:04.09IriX64i went with size_t but am unsure.
21:46.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/418862    <=== have I reported this already? (have both X and ogl here)
22:03.17IriX64ermf back to the compiler wars ;)
22:07.11IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/418891      <=== brlcad, are these ones benign too?
22:35.58brlcadthe first is already fixed
22:36.24brlcadthe second is entirely benign and not our code to care about
22:39.26IriX64ty for the comback
22:39.34IriX64comeback :)
23:41.00IriX64help me out here who came first the framebuffer lib or the display manager lib?
23:41.46brlcadframebuffer iirc
23:42.44IriX64so dm is in error?
23:42.52IriX64err conflict
23:45.31brlcadwell, they just both have the same named functions, and you're using a set of compilation options that makes that an error
23:45.42brlcadeasily fixed by just renaming one or turning off debug
23:46.09brlcadit's already changed in the sources to accommodate
23:46.23IriX64so thats it, sigh im so innocent when it comes to this stuff... ty brlcad
23:53.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/419015  <=== so if i turn debug off this one should go away?
23:55.22IriX64never mind
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070401

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070401

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14:40.00``Erikhttp://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php
14:41.52brlcadhehe
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19:19.44IriX64brlcad, i haven't tried building adrt/rise yet, is are there any caveats, the docs indicate it might build if i get sdl installed properly.
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19:40.06brlcadIriX64: you're welcome to try, but my guess would be about a 5% chance that it'll work for you
20:25.06IriX64ahhh the light dawns on me, you intentionally bomb to protect the data base is that it? in ckmagic macro i mean.
20:30.27IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/420049     <---- this is the result of moving that "default" label to the end of the case satemnet in magic.c did
22:11.05IriX64man FB_MAGIC is hard coded...
22:12.31IriX64but magic.c is not the real problem is it?
22:16.37brlcaddepends what you're talking about, but no, magic shouldn't be a problem at all
22:17.01brlcadand yes, we intentionally bomb to protect the database .. i believe i said that several times
22:17.14IriX64looking for the master table of magic numbers... is there one someplace?
22:17.46brlcadsrc/libbu/magic.c
22:18.03IriX64thank you man
23:26.15IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/420211
23:27.19IriX64compiles but untested..... yet :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070402

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070402

00:23.42*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667512.dsl.bell.ca)
00:37.52*** join/#brlcad rdvon (n=47e3ff3c@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:38.12rdvonwhat is this brlcad?
00:38.31rdvon...
00:38.41rdvoni cant join any other channels!!!
00:38.48rdvon...ugh...
00:39.01rdvonwell, this sux
00:39.19rdvonmaybe this app is worth talking about... it is 3d i presume.
00:39.23rdvonbetter the blender?
00:39.32rdvonthats what i use
00:39.37rdvonblender.org
00:39.46rdvon:D
00:39.56rdvonok, dont talk
00:39.56rdvonhaha
00:40.00rdvonbye!
00:41.40bjorkBSDhehehe
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02:16.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: stash argv[0]
02:16.44CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: emphasize any errors, separate out result.
02:19.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/Makefile.am: encourage finding init.tcl, set TCL_LIBRARY
02:24.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (ampi.tcl ami.tcl):
02:24.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: the script wasn't correctly parsing multiple directory paths and also similarly
02:24.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: did not function with a distcheck or other compilation out of place. It still
02:24.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: has a problem if it cannot write to the source dir since the index is created
02:24.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: where the sources files are.
02:36.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c:
02:36.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: add support for running successfully from a distcheck and identifying the tcl
02:36.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: resources. also set tcl_library so that init.tcl is identified. add a
02:36.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: tclcad_tcl_library() routine for debug printing of what tcl_library is set to.
02:36.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: now only appends to auto_path if the dirs exist.
02:36.49CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: declare tclcad_tcl_library()
03:38.17IriX64heh
03:38.39IriX64trying my hand at gcc-4.3
03:40.25IriX64brlcad has been busy :)
03:41.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/comb.tcl: text widget option -tab is now an illegal abbreviation for -tabs (as of tcl 8.5). Changed -tab to -tabs.
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05:44.14IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/420507
06:33.07IriX64egg on my face ... mea culpa
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13:02.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/html_library.tcl: 8.5 now seems to use -tabs for text widgets instead of -tab
14:16.38clock_Is there some software that produces a metric thread for BRL-CAD?
14:16.54clock_Where I would say like 40mm of M5 thread?
14:17.36brlcadhm, not really
14:17.54brlcadyou could do the math and use the pattern tool fairly easily, but it'd be a bit fugly
14:18.00clock_is it theoretically possible to produce a thread from BRL-CAD primitives without approximation?
14:18.33brlcadyes, intersecting tori and/or pipe sections
14:18.57clock_how can a thread be done this way?
14:19.27clock_I can't imagine
14:19.49brlcadthe easiest way is to subtract a winding pipe from an enlarged cylinder iirc
14:20.04clock_so it reduces down to modelling a coil spring?
14:20.09brlcadbasically
14:20.23brlcadsince it's subtracted and tightly fit, you end up with a thread
14:20.31clock_and coil spring is a pipe, where the centerline is a helix?
14:20.54brlcadthere's a few threading patterns you can't create that way, but in general, it'll do basic bolt threadings
14:21.42brlcadyes, basically
14:21.56clock_is it possible to specify a helix for the pipe primitive directly?
14:25.37brlcadif you use a pipe, it's manual specification of the winding
14:25.54brlcadusing the pattern tool with half-tori would probably be easier
14:26.21clock_but half-tori are just an approximation of a helix, aren't they?
14:34.59brlcaddepends on the helix
14:35.32clock_now I am talking about spiral spring
14:35.52clock_x=cos angle, y=cos angle, z=const*angle
14:35.59clock_sorry y=sin angle
14:37.30clock_can such a helix be made from half-tori without distortion?
14:42.38brlcadintuition says yes, but I'd have to test the math out on paper, or just try it
14:42.54clock_my intuition says that no
14:44.19clock_can I generate points on a spiral and then tell BRL-CAD to connect them with a pipe? What interpolation does BRL-CAD do?
14:44.38clock_bezier curve? b-spline? NURBS?
14:46.01brlcad"can I generate points on a spiral and then tell BRL-CAD to connect them with a pipe?" => no, that's not how pipes are specified
14:46.18brlcadthey're specified as points and bend radii
14:46.35brlcadvolume III covers an example or two
14:47.34clock_the bend radii are specified in the points?
14:47.53clock_i. e. do I have 4 points and 4 radii, or 4 points and 3 radii?
14:49.09clock_or one could approximate the spiral from a set of circular slices, which would be stacked excentrically, the next one always rotated a bit.
14:49.35clock_and then ask BRL-CAD to put a slanted cylinder between the slices. Can I have slanted cylinders?
14:51.08brlcadheh, sure
14:51.21brlcadthough that's a piecewise approximation
14:51.49brlcadpiecewise torii would be better still if cylinders worked
14:52.05clock_actually the shape of the thread could be programmed by using different oval than circle
14:52.07brlcadsince they can match the radius of the shaft being sliced
14:52.47clock_I guess if one converted the thread profile into polar coordinates, he would directly obtain the shape that needs to be stacked.
14:53.28clock_With pipes, do I have 4 points and 4 radii, or 4 points and 3 radii?
14:54.23brlcadi have no idea what/which points you're referring to there to answer that correctly
14:54.35clock_the points and radii you mentioned
14:54.36brlcaddid you read the tutorial?
14:54.38clock_no
14:55.19clock_actually how one can make animation where something changes in the scene?
14:55.50clock_an animation that is not merely a flythrough of a static scene, but a scene where's something dynamically moving withing the scene?
14:56.00brlcadyou can either script and dynamicly change, or use "joints"
14:56.08clock_joints?
14:56.14brlcadthere's a joint primitive
14:56.27brlcadit's a poor-man's constraint system
14:56.38brlcadfor simple movements
14:57.00clock_is the joint something like a hinge?
14:57.16brlcada hinge could be a joint, but joints are more generic
14:57.51brlcadit's what's used in our animations where a tank maybe drives down a street, rotates a turret, fires, etc
14:57.53clock_so if I want 2 cubes, one stays and the other is approaching the first one, how many joints do I use and where do I put them?
14:58.07clock_never seen an animation of a tank in BRL-CAD
14:58.15clock_just the Stryker picture do you have public animations?
14:58.25brlcadah, true .. i suppose they're not on the site
14:58.35clock_they are secret and cannot be released?
14:58.44brlcadno, just not readily available
14:58.57brlcadI mean I have a whole drawer of tapes if you want to come on over ;)
14:59.07clock_punch tapes or magnetic tapes?
14:59.16brlcadheh, vhs
14:59.22brlcadand a few betamax
15:00.01brlcadsome were direct-to-tape, so they'd need to be digitized, others have a digital copy somewhere of the animation .. would have to hunt a bit
15:00.08clock_nice
15:00.14clock_what do you have?
15:00.22clock_tanks, what else?
15:01.07brlcadof the releasable stuff .. mm, some missiles flying over terrain
15:01.36brlcadall made quite a long while ago, and all just thrown together for a particular pupose
15:01.49brlcadanimation isn't really a strong point or high/frequent demand item
15:02.01brlcadmost of the tools for working with animations are a pita
15:02.32brlcadreally needs someone to revamped it all, new interface
15:02.36clock_For DIY instructions, animation can be very helpful.
15:03.41clock_Have you seen already this? http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php
15:04.00clock_It already gives people much better impression what shape Ronja actually has, than just some real installation pictures from a roof.
15:05.03brlcadyep, love it
15:07.23clock_thanks
15:07.42clock_do you think it actually helps over series of real-life pictures?
15:07.55brlcadactually, yeah, I think it does
15:08.17clock_even better would be a video in the style of the LEGO kit instructions
15:08.37clock_like Ronja in various stage of completion, where each stage would be turned once around so you can get an idea how it's put together
15:08.41brlcadnow to model the building/rooftop/whatever that it attaches to, then the city that the building is in, then the remove transmitter/receiver.. ;)
15:09.25brlcadah yes.. I should show you the tank video.. the tank is "assembled" in pieces with portions dropping in from the sky
15:09.41clock_wow
15:09.43clock_LEGO tank
15:10.07brlcadthe suspension system, the engine, the fuel/wiring, the crew, the body/armor, the turret
15:10.37clock_and then a rocket is fired at the tank and the tank disassembled, with pieces falling from the sky?
15:10.41clock_The crew, the...? ;-)
15:10.50brlcad``Erik: http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/pearls/
15:11.51clock_do you have it in VHS or as digital data?
15:12.12brlcaddefinitely vhs, dunno about digital
15:12.29clock_do you have a VHS player and a video capture card?
15:12.32brlcadthere are intentions to digitize them sometime anyways, just need to gather the equipment
15:13.10brlcadmaybe something to give to a summer student
15:15.11clock_If I have a thousand little cylindrical slices stacked, does it slow down BRL-CAD?
15:15.47clock_Does BRL-CAD have some clever efficient algorithm to actually deal only with those slices that are close to the ray fired?
15:18.47brlcadthere is spatial partitioning to keep things rendering quickly
15:19.05clock_something like a 3D tree?
15:19.09brlcadthough there's limits to what is possible.. it will invariably slow down some as more primitives are added
15:19.16brlcadyes, very much a 3D tree
15:19.39brlcadhybrid bsp tree of sorts
15:19.49clock_so the creator of the model doesn't have to bother if he needs a lot of primitives?
15:20.33brlcaddepends, like I said there are limits
15:20.46brlcadand pathalogically poor construstruction hierarchies
15:21.13brlcade.g. if you just union 10,000 primitives, that's going to hit a limit
15:21.47brlcadif there's a logical grouping, or ways to reference instead of replicate, that will help
15:25.48clock_if I do a brick, group it with mortar, then group a row of bricks and group a column of rows, and end up with 10,000 bricks, that's OK?
15:26.10brlcadyeah, that should be fine
15:26.15brlcadpreferred even
15:26.33brlcadjust not 10k bricks all grouped into one object
15:26.51brlcadthere's a practical limit per-object to the number of members in a combination
15:27.09brlcadand a counterpoint practical limit to how deep that hierarchy should get
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18:03.29``Erik/t new unified physics model: "Beer is good."
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19:33.58IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/421309     brlcad, is this me or you? been fighting it for a while.
19:37.22IriX64``Erik shouldn't that be bier :)
19:43.03``Erikhuh, broken tcl build... hain't seein' that on any other platforms to my knowledge o.O
19:43.34IriX64ty man sigh it *used to work :)
19:45.07``Erikyou don't want to hear this... but maybe try doing a "make clean", then build...
19:45.29IriX64way ahead of you :)
19:45.34IriX64trying distclean
19:46.05``Erikdistclean will purge the configure generated files
19:46.17``Erikare you working out of CVS, or the tarball?
19:46.21IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad < === if you want to see terra (rt bombs on it but it extracts)
19:46.25IriX64tarball
19:46.41``Erikmight as well just delete the tree and re-extract, no point in 'mortal users' doing distclean
19:46.54IriX64heh ill try that
19:47.24IriX64when i screw something up i screw it up good eh ;)
19:47.55``Erikof course, if you extract it fresh and it fails, that obviously means you did something to break your environment... :)
19:48.30IriX64was playing with tcl/tk 8.5 those are now going bye bye
19:48.36IriX648.5a5
19:48.38``Erik<-- has seen people argue that before *shrug* :)
19:48.59IriX64i don't argue ``Erik.
19:49.27``Erik8.5a5 is the tcl/tk version in cvs at the moment I think... the tarball should have come with 8.4
19:49.51IriX64talking system library ``Erik
19:50.41``Erikok, if you have issues binding to the system lib, there may be an API difference or internal behavior that'd cause naughtiness... if you see that, your best bet is to use --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build to use the included versions :/
19:51.08IriX64ty
19:52.25IriX64probably a conflict
19:52.57``Erikperhaps, or a broken system tcl... or *shrug* it may be worth looking into once things settle down a little :)
19:53.22IriX64i'm back where i wass if it builds ill let you know
20:06.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: subtract the "dry" run from cpu times for the "speedup" measure
20:08.01CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/adrt/adrt.c: a couple notes after meeting with twingy (adrt/libtie author)
20:10.22IriX64so when is brlcad going to ship with a new os to run it on :P
20:32.46IriX64libbu is building
20:34.36IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/421416     <--- not a bug, just if you're interested
21:04.51``Erikum, if you want an OS where BRL-CAD works dandy without issue, feel free to download linux or freebsd, they can both be legally procured free of charge (and with minimal license constraint) and are OS's the developers actually touch...
21:11.06IriX64when you get brlcad ported to a pm app let me know :P
21:13.04IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/421484    <----- where do i find out what this errno means?
21:13.57IriX64mmmm might still be me, don't jump the gun.
21:19.30IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/421492    <---- something wrong here?
21:35.18IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/421506    < --- I just did this to tcl and tk checklibs is my logic flawed?
21:37.21IriX64says it'll build it :)
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22:22.32IriX64~seen valarq
22:23.11ibotvalarq <i=vq@90-225-114-111-no122.tbcn.telia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #brlcad, 189d 3h 45m 15s ago, saying: 'you're filling my 0.5TB raid in my mailserver :P'.
22:23.11IriX64mmm is this supported?
22:24.04IriX64heh
22:29.19IriX64farkles....error12
22:29.42IriX64ampi.tcl, i wonder
22:30.42IriX64pkgindex.tcl
22:36.08IriX64nap time:) l8r
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070403

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070403

00:09.15IriX64good ole make -i
00:09.41IriX64ill figure tclscripts out later :)
00:14.40IriX64Tim Myers? are you the Tim Myers from weston road in Toronto?
00:14.54IriX64how you been?
00:16.06brlcadyou can be so random
00:16.23IriX64why tclscripts are a pita :)
00:16.37IriX64not random
00:17.11IriX64joevalleyfield? question stands.
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00:20.32brlcadMario?  ar you the Mario from Mario Bros.?  Do you work for Nintendo?
00:20.50IriX64heh yes actually have you seen luigi?
00:21.11brlcadhe's tied up in the back room
00:21.20IriX64to the typer i suppose
00:21.20poolioah what?
00:22.12louipcno it's Mario Lemieux
00:22.19IriX64But Tim i actually know...
00:22.20louipc(the better)
00:22.28IriX64heh
00:22.34brlcadhe's not the tim you know, k?
00:22.37IriX64sore knees and all huh?
00:22.41IriX64k
00:25.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/Makefile.am: don't include the include dir because it's now a SUBDIR, otherwise distcheck whines
00:25.36IriX64brlcad man it's after hours :)
00:26.04IriX64ahh i see the effort that never sleeps ;)
00:27.28IriX64well the exe's are installing
00:28.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am):
00:28.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: the work is never done. clean up the build specification for tcl/tk so that
00:28.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: other targets like install, distclean, distcheck, and even uninstall (which
00:28.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: tcl/tk bastages don't provide themselves) now work. have to expand the unix
00:28.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: subdir to appease distcheck success.
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01:52.15IriX64whether to link against the opengl library=yes, whether to build against opengl = no :)
01:52.37IriX64- :)
01:53.59bjorkBSDIriX64, are you compiling brl on irix?
01:54.33IriX64my system is not irix, sorta a strange beast which is why i don't file formal bug reports
01:55.24IriX6480% of the bugs are probably due to my strange environment
01:55.41IriX64but every once in a while its due to brlcad code
01:55.54IriX64and brlcad said he wanted to know either way
01:58.38IriX64bjorkBSD: are you a developer or user?
01:59.47IriX64or a tinkerer like me :)
02:00.23bjorkBSDtinkerer.
02:00.29bjorkBSDdo i sound *anything* like a developer?!
02:00.44IriX64heh does it compile on your system?
02:00.57bjorkBSDi only play with it on bsd.
02:01.05bjorkBSDmy irix box still lacks a head so i haven't tried it there yet.
02:01.46IriX64ahh I see the nick interested you?
02:02.05IriX64fellow user and all that, sorry don't know irix from beans
02:02.21bjorkBSDah.
02:02.56bjorkBSDwhat oddment do you use then?
02:02.56IriX64i know there are irix binaries though, probably so do you
02:04.02IriX64oddment? you mean my system?= Cygwin
02:04.07bjorkBSDoh i see.
02:04.18bjorkBSDbut brlcad runs on windows.
02:04.20bjorkBSDi'm sure you knew that :)
02:05.11bjorkBSDbinary version.
02:05.20IriX64have that prefer this
02:05.59IriX64have you seen the examples rendered on this little system?
02:06.43bjorkBSDyes i've seen 'em.
02:08.00bjorkBSDsee before i started on this misadventure, i thought 3d cad was gonna be a piece of cake
02:08.11bjorkBSDi just couldn't figure out how to put my room into it...
02:08.30bjorkBSDand then i read someplace that i had to know how to sketch decently. i was mortified.
02:08.46bjorkBSDhehehe
02:47.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (48 files in 48 dirs): (log message trimmed)
02:47.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: restructure library linkages so that brl-cad libraries no longer list their
02:47.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: dependencies as a LIBADD. dependencies are moved into configure.ac and provided
02:47.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: via _LIBS variables so that they are specified at link time. this supports
02:47.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: hybrid static library compilation as well as other more varied mixture
02:47.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: configurations. use the new _LIBS variables throughout. probably want to
02:47.37CIA-14BRL-CAD: re-combine them later into a single symbol name per library but this will
03:14.39deltazapit's bad because i sat with autocad today to bang out a design so that i could take it to a metal shop to be made
03:14.56deltazapit was actually easier for me to use brlcad to make a model first :X
03:15.18deltazapnow i'm just going to convert the database and markup with dimensions
03:17.17bjorkBSDinneresting
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03:54.43zappwhoa
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05:16.24IriX64Maloeran: interested in a thread count? www.irix64.spaces.live.com
05:16.48IriX64trying for 15000 next :)
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05:35.21cadguyEvening.  Anyone know what the status of the CVS repository is?
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09:36.56CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: fftest needs libm
09:42.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: get rid of fmax() and use V_MAX() instead
10:28.12clock_brlcad: thanks for the extra button.
10:28.21clock_When is the next release? :)
10:28.29clock_I think that's gonna make the work much easier.
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13:20.42brlcadhopefully today!
13:20.52brlcadi'm seeing green lights across the board
13:21.00brlcaddoing run-time testing now
13:21.01clock_brlcad: across the board?
13:21.22clock_sound like seeing a ship coming while paddling on a surfboard
13:21.31brlcadI test compilation and run-time functionality across several platforms
13:21.34clock_green lights are the left side or the right one?
13:21.45brlcadwhen they all seemingly "work", it's "green across the board"
13:22.21clock_aha like in a train control centre?
13:22.36brlcadyes
13:23.26clock_that means 7.x.y is going to appear on the sourceforge download page?
13:30.12``Erik7.10.0, and once he finishes his bench runs I'd hope...
13:39.17brlcadbench is already green
13:39.21brlcadi'm to mged testing
13:42.36clock_bench is already green
13:42.46clock_sounds like a pub visit that included vomiting
13:43.13``Erikhehehe
13:50.24bjorkBSDdisGUSTING clock_
13:56.44deltazapwhen i get more time, i think i'm going to try to put together a MacPorts for brlcad
13:57.06deltazapi...uh...mean...if i get more time
13:58.57``Erikshould be reasonably easy, osX is one of the primary dev platforms
13:59.18deltazapyeah, i was surprised that there wasn't a MacPort already
13:59.22brlcadmmmacports.. good stuff
14:00.24deltazapit's the easiest way to get most gnu utils
14:06.09``Erikonce gnucash w as in macports, I dropped fink and totally migrated :)
14:08.08deltazapfink just never really seemed right
14:09.09clock_mac maniacs always say everything on mac is perfect
14:11.16``Eriknot perfect, just a lot better than anything else :D
14:11.16``Erik*duck*
14:14.00deltazaplinux zealots tell people to fix the software themself when there's a bug report
14:14.04deltazap*ducks*
14:15.43clock_yeah instead of doing their homework and fixing bugs which they themselves created ;-)
14:16.21``Erikhttp://bash.org/?749223
14:18.16``Erikhttp://bash.org/?749430
14:18.22``Erikheheh linux quotes :)
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16:54.37IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com    (Feb.21 albumn)
16:57.10IriX64louipc: neat :)
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17:02.35TimRikerhmm.. brlman "for those systems that do not have nroff" is used on debian?
17:04.21TimRikerhehe. "wall" is not "wall" anymore.
17:05.30IriX64starting one from your distributed files
17:05.40TimRikerbrlterm on debian should run x-terminal-emulator, NOT xterm.
17:05.48IriX64lets see if my bug goes away :)
17:05.53brlcadoop, sorry, reading elsewhere
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17:07.07TimRikerhd and wall need renaming. :)
17:07.13brlcadTimRiker: brlterm?
17:07.41TimRikerin the debian package. starts up an xterm with /usr/brlcad/bin in the path before other things.
17:08.13brlcadah, sounds like something the guy that made the .deb put together
17:08.20TimRikerI don't use xterm. I use urxvt which x-terminal-emulator would start, but brlterm (the shell script) explicitly starts xterm.
17:08.31TimRikeryeah, the deb needs work.
17:09.57TimRikerwhere is the tutorial?
17:10.18CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/tri.c: notify if using tri-cache
17:10.21TimRikerwhat does the windows version look like? does in just install a bunch of separate binaries too?
17:10.25brlcadthere are several tutorials on http://brlcad.org/
17:10.42brlcadas well as cheat sheets, developer guides, etc
17:11.21TimRiker"Introduction to MGED" ? I was expecting a link that said tutorial, or getting started, etc.
17:11.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.h: function prototypes...
17:11.57TimRikerI don't even know what MGED is yet.
17:13.02bjorkBSDheh TimRiker you sound just like me!
17:13.47bjorkBSDbut the truth is 3d modeling is a sophisticated dark art.
17:14.00CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/perfcomp.c: Simple partition list comparison function, reports RMS deviation if it makes sense. Shoot spiral bundles instead of the same ray (should probably be changed to an ortho grid to keep ray density uniform)
17:14.01``Erikgui frontend for "the system" and modeler
17:14.01bjorkBSDakin to composing music or creating mathematical models :)
17:14.31bjorkBSDthe software's just there to enhance the skills you have.
17:15.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10rtcmp/rtcmp.c: use the partition list comparison function instead of blindly printing out the lists
17:16.06IriX64woe befalls anybody who commits a sin ;)
17:18.05IriX64isn't that interesting, restarting configure works now.
17:18.08brlcadTimRiker: yes .. particularly confusing as "BRL-CAD" is actually a system of tools and does not (currently) have a unifying interface.. a bazaar of 400 tools and a couple dozen libraries
17:18.26TimRiker``Erik: yeah, figured that out. my comment was on the brlcad.org home page, it points to MGED but does not explain what it is.
17:18.30brlcadmged is just the predominant gui interface at the moment that most associate with BRL-CAD
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17:19.06TimRikerbrlcad: not a problem. same could be said for pbm-tools et. al.
17:19.07brlcadTimRiker: there's lots of "pre-existing" expert knowledge expected frankly that is acquired, expert-friendly per-se
17:19.09``Erikheh, wha'ts mged stand for again? Monstrosity of a Gui EDitor? O:-D
17:19.33brlcadmultiple-device geometry editor
17:20.13TimRikerbrlcad: just the home page should show "Introduction to MGED (multiple-device geometry editor)" or similar.
17:20.19IriX64military groups of excited developers ``Erik :)
17:20.35brlcadTimRiker: heh, the web site needs a lot more than that ;)
17:20.44brlcadvery minimal "brain dump" of information
17:20.47bjorkBSD*coughs*
17:20.51bjorkBSDah yes. the home page.
17:20.54bjorkBSD*coughs*
17:21.26TimRikerhehe
17:21.26bjorkBSD*hides in embarassment*
17:21.33brlcadit's back to being #1 priority after this next release :)
17:23.09brlcadTimRiker: in all fairness, the very first document (Overview of BRL-CAD) did explain what MGED is
17:23.24bjorkBSDis brlcad the oldest 3d cad program. ever?
17:24.16brlcadit's close, but i don't think so
17:24.32brlcadprobably the oldest still in use, and certainly the oldest open source cad system
17:24.40``Erikfirst line in '79, yo
17:24.47TimRikerbrlcad: perhaps. only scanned the intro so far.
17:24.59brlcadI think the magi corp's modeler actually came first
17:25.34brlcadbrl-cad does (still) include the very first distributed parallel ray-tracer
17:27.51IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/422731   (don't quite grok this )
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17:28.54``Erikerm, it's a test to see if tcl works... why do you need to grok it?
17:28.59``Erik(part of a test, rather...)
17:29.35IriX64cause i have a system lib and cant get your file to recognize the fact
17:30.23IriX64keeps saying try enabling tcl build
17:30.23``Eriklook for the offending section in config.log
17:30.27IriX64ty i dinna thought of that
17:31.54IriX64blah, tcl_init returned error
17:32.00IriX64farkles
17:32.46``Erikheh... and you got segfaults in libtcl itself a few days ago... seriously, dude, are you sure your system tcl isn't borked?
17:32.49brlcadthere's a typo in there too
17:32.53brlcadthat is fixed on head
17:33.05brlcadbut then you're still not using head
17:33.37IriX64the seg faults i fixed, now using tcl8.4
17:33.49IriX64should work whats the typo?
17:34.08``Erikbah, libtool is outsmarting itself again, src/adrt/isst/master fails on fbsd, openpty and forkpty are in /usr/lib/libutil.so and it keeps linking src/adrt/libutil/libutil.la :/
17:34.23IriX64:)
17:34.47IriX64and i thought my stuff was "fraught" :)
17:36.32TimRikertimr@slop:~$ wall
17:36.33TimRikerwall: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by /usr/brlcad/lib/librt.so.19)
17:36.33TimRiker<PROTECTED>
17:38.41TimRikerso back on the pdp-11 screenshot, what app is running? is that stuff still around? ie could one setup brl-cad on a pdp-11 ?
17:38.44brlcadsounds like the .deb was compiled against an incompatible glibc?
17:38.55TimRikeryep. looks that way.
17:39.47brlcadthat screenshot is an old version of "ged", the precursor to mged
17:40.07brlcadi'm not sure anyone has tried in at least 10 years, but yes .. most of the code/pieces to work are there
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17:40.53brlcadprobably have issues compiling directly that would need tweaking, but nothing major  (mostly adoption / assumption of an ansi-compliant compiler, which pdp-11 didn't have)
17:41.31brlcadTimRiker: but to give you an idea, I have compiled brl-cad under simh (running a bsd variant)
17:41.59IriX64``Erik i'm going to fake it out and see what happens
17:42.00deltazapquick question about converting from a g database to dxf
17:42.01brlcadno gui obviously, at least I don't know how to simulate a framebuffer in simh
17:42.37brlcaddeltazap: shoot
17:43.42deltazapi don't know if i did it right :P
17:44.13deltazapthis is what i typed in "/usr/brlcad/bin/g-dxf -i -oskids.dxf skids.g skids.c > skids.dxf" and it seems like qcad isn't showing anything
17:44.41deltazapbut another question, if i'm using the -o switch, i shouldn't need to redirect the stream, right?
17:50.26brlcaddoesn't look right
17:50.37brlcad-o skids.dxf and no redirect iirc
17:51.29brlcadcrossing the streams would be bad
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17:53.55``ErikI've been slimed!
17:54.05TimRikerbrlcad: simh does not have gui support in mainstream, but there are patches. what OS did you use?
17:54.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (8 files in 8 dirs): since libutil is forced static, skip libtool and just build a static lib (fixes build issue on OS's where the system libutil is required for python)
17:55.47``Erika netbsd iirc
17:55.49``Erik?
17:56.31brlcadi played with a 4.3 bsd I ran across, but ultimately went to town with a netbsd
17:56.42IriX64finally churning a compile
17:56.54``Erikdid you do pdp11? I thought you did a vax
17:57.17TimRikerI fired up unix V5 in simh the other say. (that's version 5 not system 5)
17:57.54``Erik<-- was having fun with lisp on pdp1 last year :)
17:57.56brlcaddid ``Erik: i got even farther with the vax and netbsd
17:58.12TimRikerthere are some claimed pdp-1 parts on ebay atm.
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17:58.50bjorkBSDTimRiker, like the on/off switch?
17:59.06TimRikerheh. nope. plugin boards.
17:59.08bjorkBSDi have prime waterfront property to sell to you if you're interested :)
17:59.13``Erik"honest, this vacuum tube really is from a pdp1!"
17:59.52TimRikerhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170097918224 for example.
18:00.39``Erikwell, they look like pdp modules
18:00.53brlcadbut do they smell like pdp modules
18:00.56IriX64a tube that looks like a board? neat :)
18:00.58bjorkBSDthey look like they were built from a popular electronics article.
18:01.01``Erikbut I already have a computer about as useful as a pdp1 would be
18:01.40``Erikhehehe, electrolytics were the best, nice big pop :D
18:01.41IriX64thos are resistors heating your basement
18:01.49IriX64those too
18:02.14IriX64all sorts of 5 watt resistors :)
18:02.37``Erikquarter watt resistors make pretty flashes and "woofs" when you put wall power on them
18:03.42``Eriksolder under wall power is crazy, though, vaporizes some of the metal, the flux goes crazy, and makes a fun little shower of molten/burning material, along with a nice big black mark on the outlet
18:03.58brlcadso that's where henry's been hiding when he plays hide-n-seek
18:04.00IriX64which pase does that ``Erik :P
18:04.07IriX64phase too
18:04.40``Erikregular old 117v 60hz wall socket shtuff, irix, no need to bust open the breaker box and fry yourself on the three-legged stuff
18:05.06``Erik(was using fine 60/40 electronics solder, though, the skinny stuff)
18:05.22IriX64heh the 70 requires it had to find it somewhere
18:05.22``Erikah, the joys of stupid youth
18:05.49IriX64developmental youth
18:11.27TimRikerbrlcad: hehe. he was hiding behind it just the other day. :) I also have a double rack full of other HP crap^Wstuff
18:11.51TimRikermost of the rest: http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware/20050615_012504
18:11.51TimRikerplenty in #classiccmp
18:12.33IriX643 board computer cpu,mem,floppy sweet machine
18:14.33bjorkBSDTimRiker, what do these machines do?
18:14.42bjorkBSDconsuming 1's and 0's? :P
18:15.57``Erikmmmm, 1's and 0's, binarybits :) a simpler food then hexadecimal bits, but more filling
18:16.31IriX64``Erik, there are less bits how can it be more filling ?
18:17.13IriX64errr never mind they translate :)
19:20.03TimRikerbjorkBSD: I used a 4 user time shared basic environment on an old HP-2114B system. I could in theory run the same environment on my hardware. There are other HP OSes that can run there too, but my goal is a time shared basic system.
19:22.11bjorkBSDah okay.
19:23.20TimRikerbjorkBSD: simh will emulate them if you want to get a feel for it.
19:23.29bjorkBSDhmm i see.
19:24.30archivistI sometimes wonder which HP computer the 5420A signal analyser has in the center section
19:25.55bjorkBSDabout the only thing that ever seems to get everyone chattering on here's oldhardware and machine/metalwork.
19:26.00bjorkBSDvery odd.
19:26.10bjorkBSD... and rc planes. and 'lectronics.
19:26.20bjorkBSDspheroids? rhomboids? never!
19:28.37bjorkBSDsee? i told ya.
19:30.59archivistI just saw the new price in 1978 $29900
19:33.10bjorkBSDyou have any 'scopes?
19:33.21archivista few
19:33.43archivistmostly Tektronix
19:34.01bjorkBSDanalog?
19:34.06TimRikerhttp://www.teknetelectronics.com/Search.asp?p_ID=16352 <- there's a computer in there?
19:34.21IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/422879 (how now with system tcl (which I do have))
19:34.58archivistTimRiker, bottom section in that picture
19:35.39bjorkBSDdamn you collect expensive toys, archivist.
19:36.18archivistthey "were" expensive new, I cannot afford any new HP gear
19:36.53TimRikerno idea. don't recognize that machine.
19:37.24archivistI must pull a pcb or two see if any numbers ring a bell
19:38.19archivistI loads its program from an internal tape drive in the top section
19:39.53archivistthe tape drives have died so no longer usable
19:47.29archivistwee it has an internal label stating processor 2105A
19:48.28archivistI left the tape section next door
19:50.26TimRiker2105A is supposed to be like the 2108A from what I recall. perhaps shorter? http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446
19:52.35TimRikerinside the front: http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132501
19:52.48archivistthis seems somewhat built around inside the middle section with interface and memory etc
19:53.23TimRikerinside the back; http://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132632
19:53.35archivistcould be thats a lot taller
19:53.55TimRikernotice the card slots on front and rear. memory cards go on the front, and i/o cards on the rear.
19:54.14TimRikerthe 2112a is similar but taller. Perhaps the 2105 is shorter?
19:54.25archivistheh identical label on rear about which way up
19:54.54archivistanother 4 screws....
19:56.10TimRikermy 2108 has 4 mem boards and a controller. there are higher density mem cards though, so it could have 64k(bytes) with just 2 cards.
19:57.18TimRikerthere are pics in the gallery of the both sides of the main board on the 2108a
20:00.54archivist11 screws 4 card frame 3 in it
20:02.21archivist64k mem 12747A
20:03.41archivist2102B mem controller
20:13.54TimRikermine is a 2102A mem controller.
20:14.32TimRiker64k? not 32k? that's really 128kb then.
20:17.07deltazapbrlcad: i had tried the converter that way, but it actually didn't do anything for me
20:17.07deltazapand i think the qcad demo can't do anything with it....
20:17.08TimRikeryou need some kind of extended mem hardware for that. I don't have any. JayWest would be one to ask. so you've got twice the RAM I have. :)
20:17.08TimRikerarchivist: are there i/o cards on the other side? what cards?
20:17.08archivistyes a gpib and an interface and a termination card
20:19.04archivist1 odd card with 3 74S181 on it and a large ttl etc card underneath the frame (ttl) and a bunch of cards marked with 82s115's
20:19.30archivistand another card marked booster microcode
20:19.44TimRikerask on #classiccmp and see if anyone there knows.
20:20.12archivistmay be a special for the instrument
20:20.20TimRikerperhaps.
20:21.13TimRikerI expect the machine would run the 4 user MSU time shared basic with only a bit of tweaking. tweaking that's not done yet though.
20:21.14brlcaddeltazap: "didn't do anything" as in didn't create a file?  created an empty file?  what was in there?
20:21.20brlcaddid it output an error?
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21:13.51deltazapsorry for blinking in and out
21:13.53deltazapwhen i do "/usr/brlcad/bin/g-dxf -i -o skids.dxf skids.g skids.c
21:14.10deltazapit just says "skids.dxf: no such file"
21:14.35deltazapbut that should be the right syntax and switches
21:27.31deltazaphah, oh great :-\
21:27.42deltazapit looks like autocad 2002 doesn't like my dxf
23:03.49*** join/#brlcad TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128)
23:50.35brlcadaha! found and fixed the last remaining tcl bug holding up release
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070404

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070404

00:04.06*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:08.49CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (incrTcl/itcl/generic/itcl_methods.c tcl/generic/tclProc.c): (log message trimmed)
00:08.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: account for a new tcl/itcl interaction bug caused by the upgrade to 8.5, first
00:08.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: reported by alice and soon after by john, whereby tcl panics and aborts mged
00:08.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: when you call up the combination editor or other incrtcl interface widget. upon
00:08.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: further investigation, patches are made to both tcl and incrtcl to 1) not panic
00:08.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: as the check is bogus/inappropriate at that place in tcl (body is empty and
00:08.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: marked as such) and 2) actually provide a compiled body pointer (which is what
00:10.11brlcadwoo hoo
00:10.29brlcadthat should be fairly stable now
00:12.00bjorkBSDnew version coming out?
00:27.43``Erikw00t
00:28.27``Erikbjork: that was the "only known showstopper" when I talked to brlcad this afternoon... he's going to run it through the test gauntlet again, if it passes, it's a release...
00:28.49``Erikso barring issue, tomorrowish
00:28.50``Erik:)
00:30.08``Erik(mebbe we should set up an omfg real dashboard or something on "that web server", so'z someone can run a script and have all the target platforms report to a central site)
00:36.42Twingyor higher some one from india to do it for 5 cents
00:37.25``Erikhehehe
00:38.03Twingyor rupies
00:38.08``Erikit's gov't, twingy, why outsource for a fraction of the going rate when you can schlep it off to a contractor for 2x the going rate? :D
00:38.09Twingyor whatever they use for money
00:39.03``Erikrupee's, yeah
00:40.57``ErikI'm told that you can buy a house with a 3 car garage and a half acre of land for ~40k less than an hour from st louis... :/ awful tempting
00:41.11Twingyyep
00:41.20TwingyI have a friend a couple hours away
00:41.29Twingy20 acres for $100k
00:41.50Twingyonly down side is if you ever want to move to the coast again you'll never be able to afford it
00:42.02Twingygood place to retire, but bad place to make a living imho
00:42.20``Eriknot retaining the same living style, no
00:42.28Twingywork 30 years on the coast, retire in the mid west as a millionaire
00:42.42Twingyrelatively speaking
00:42.48``Erikheh, perhaps
00:42.58``Erikbut moving to cheapo-land sooner may be beneficial
00:43.12``Erikgive you lots of leeway to try the whole "run my own business" aspect
00:44.02``Eriksince any business we touch would be national if not international, basing in a cheap location is... highly logical :D
00:44.17``Erikthose silly computer geeks and their intarweb
00:44.24bjorkBSDi hear the sahara's pretty darned cheap this time of year ``Erik
00:44.30bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
00:44.57``Erikhigh speed bandwidht is a bitch out there
00:45.14bjorkBSDwhat? satelite broadband
00:45.16``Erikalso; I'm a little too american to be headin' anywhere interesting, bush fucked things up pretty bad
00:45.26bjorkBSDtell them you're canadian
00:45.29``Eriksatallite has horrible latency, makes online games horrible
00:45.35bjorkBSDthey won't know the damned difference.
00:45.39``Erikhehehe, that's my plan for traveling anywhere outside of north america
00:45.45``Erik"wots dees aboot, eh?"
00:52.16PrezKennedymy plan is to speak english the entire time and when someone doesnt understand ill just talk louder until they do
00:52.39bjorkBSDit helps to have duct tape and a wire hanger to hit them with...
00:52.44bjorkBSDto get them to understand.
00:52.59bjorkBSDthe duct tape for pulling hairs off :)
00:53.40``ErikI thought that's why you carried a jug of water and a board...
00:53.41``ErikO.o
00:57.35brlcadbjorkBSD: probably sometime tomorrow evening.. would tag and post it up now, but I have .. other obligations to attend to till tomorrow afternoon
00:57.48brlcadthough sources probably much soonerish
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02:54.44deltazapi'm i doing sometime that's preventing me from importing my database to autocad?
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14:30.21``Erik"you can't photoshop a personality"
14:33.18clock_That would be nice, to cover a personality disorder or so
14:34.53``Erikhttp://www.dieselsweeties.com/
14:37.08``Erikhttp://bash.org/?749986
14:44.33bjorkBSD'disorder' is a much abused word.
14:45.02bjorkBSDinfact, the only disorder's the abuse of the word 'disorder'! :P
14:45.29bjorkBSDthe voices in my head take umbrage.
14:52.19clock_bjorkBSD: just turn up the volume in your headphones :)
14:52.43bjorkBSDheheheheh
15:18.24``Erikor turn up your BAC
15:18.26``ErikO.o
15:27.32clock_tinfoil hat does the job
15:27.44clock_probably getting a crosstalk from nearby radio transmitter
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17:19.29deltazapgrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
17:19.54deltazap"Improper table entry name on *blah* on line 20"
17:23.13deltazapqcad isn't displaying anything and autocad craps out on this dxf that had no errors during conversion
17:26.25deltazapi just don't understand what i'm doing wrong here
17:36.57IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/424248     <-- those two inits not sure here can you help me out.
17:37.00archivistI had to write a dxf cleaner 10 yeras ago, the spec/implementation is a bit broken in places
17:37.43IriX64librt/wdb_obj.c
17:37.51deltazapthat error above is from autocad 2002
17:37.51IriX64:)
17:37.59deltazapbut the file opens just fine in pro/e
17:40.44archivistwell is the line a 2003 and up spec line
17:41.07archivistthe dxf format changes over the years
17:42.47deltazap;(
17:43.04deltazapi'm going to bash someone's head in....
17:56.50deltazap*sigh* this school...
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18:16.45IriX64mea culpa... i looked it up :)
18:36.01deltazapmaybe it's because the demo of qcad won't display my dxf?
18:45.40IriX64where'd you get the demo?
18:46.08deltazapfrom qcad's site
18:46.33deltazapmaybe there's just something that i'm missing about either the export or qcad
18:49.01deltazapis there a certain way the model has to be orientated in brlcad in order to export to dxf properly?
19:05.18IriX64are you specifing objects?
19:07.17deltazapyeah, i am, i'm specifing the combination of the model
19:07.24IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/424368  <--- this is what it supports in way of options, but you probably already have this
19:07.57deltazapyeah, i've read over the man page
19:08.19IriX64and qcad won't load it at all or its farkled?
19:08.29deltazapit loads it, but nothing shows up
19:08.43IriX64does acad show it properly?
19:09.02deltazapacad?
19:09.17IriX64thought you had a copy of acad too?
19:09.24deltazapoh, autocad
19:09.29IriX64yeah
19:09.32IriX64sorry
19:10.05deltazapthe version of autocad we have at the school is autocad 2002, which i just found out that the converter for brlcad outputs the newer style of dxf
19:10.19deltazapso, autocad is out of the question right now
19:10.48IriX64autodesk must a a way
19:10.51IriX64have
19:11.20deltazapi'm sure if we had the newest version of autocad it wouldn't be a problem
19:11.32deltazapbut pro/e opens the dxf with no problem, even creates the 3d model if i choose
19:11.40IriX64what are you trying to export?
19:12.12deltazapit's a model of some landing skids i made in brlcad for the model helicopter we use
19:12.29IriX64windows or unix brlcad?
19:12.33deltazapunix
19:12.57IriX64any warnings or errors from g-dxf?
19:13.06deltazapnone that i saw
19:13.16IriX64try another model
19:13.29IriX64one of the examples...m35 or something
19:18.32deltazapi think i just found the problem :X
19:19.06deltazapthe OSX version on the sourceforge page...7.6.6
19:20.50deltazapChanges from release 7.6.8 to release 7.8.0 include:
19:20.51deltazap* fixed g-dxf export compatibility issue
19:20.53deltazapD'OH
19:21.27IriX64guess the included readme didn't holler loud enough :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070405

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070405

00:52.47IriX64Natalies Interactive Ray Tracer :)
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02:23.22brlcaddeltazap: you'll find that even versions of autocad don't agree on how they interpret their own standard
02:23.50brlcadthe model doesn't have to be oriented in any particular order
02:24.13brlcadi think our coordinate systems are actually identical iirc, but don't quote me on that (it's just a rotation if they're not)
02:32.42brlcaddeltazap: the was a big ambiguity in the standard regarding 3dface support (and whether a blessed duplicate fourth vertex was required) that even autocad used to choke on but later fixed .. if you're using 7.8.0+ though, it shouldn't matter
02:33.54brlcadas the code was modified to support old and new 3dface specifications (where it originally only supported new)
02:58.02deltazapstrange
02:59.15deltazapi'm going to compile the new version and see if it clears up my issue with at least qcad
03:08.07brlcadlatest cvs head should be good now
03:08.25brlcadnew source release really is hours away (probably thursday sometime)
03:08.38deltazaphaha, nmm
03:08.43brlcadbinaries posted through the rest of the week
03:08.59brlcadwhat version were you using?
03:09.06brlcads/were/are/
03:15.31deltazap7.6.6 is what's on sourceforge for OSX
03:17.45deltazapi built 7.8.4 on my other machine to see how long it would take and it never even crossed my mind that i had an older version on my ibook
03:19.05brlcadahh
03:19.39brlcadyeah, that version only outputs dxf that newer autocad and other cad packages will read
03:20.41deltazap7.8.4?
03:24.53deltazapi can understand that 7.6 would also have a problem with older versions of autocad, such as 2002 *sigh*
03:25.48brlcad7.8.4 should work on old
03:26.20deltazaphmm
03:26.49brlcadanything 7.8.0+ iirc
03:27.55deltazaphmm, ok
03:53.00deltazapohohoh, one other question: why doesn't the -i switch work with -o?
03:53.37brlcadseriously?
03:54.31deltazapif i did g-dxf -i -o (filename), it claims that (filename) isn't there
03:55.49brlcaddid it say "Cannot open output file (filename) for writing" ?
03:56.38brlcadooh, eek
03:56.42deltazapnope, just that the file didn't exist
03:57.04deltazapit looks like it's ignoring multiple switches
03:57.53brlcadwow, you just found a somewhat prevalent bug
03:57.59deltazap:D
03:58.12brlcada one-char typo
04:01.30brlcadprevalent == 4 converters
04:02.12brlcadmind if I credit you?
04:03.27deltazapsure :)
04:08.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
04:08.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: Shawn Baker identified a bug in g-dxf (which in turn was found in g-acad, g-nff,
04:08.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: and g-obj too) where the -i argument ended up gobbling up the following argument
04:08.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: incorrectly. e.g g-dxf -i -o filename.dxf blah.g object would end up in a
04:08.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: filename.dxf error.
04:09.03CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g-acad.c g-dxf.c g-nff.c g-obj.c):
04:09.03CIA-14BRL-CAD: Shawn Baker identified a bug in g-dxf (which in turn was found in g-acad, g-nff,
04:09.03CIA-14BRL-CAD: and g-obj too) where the -i argument ended up gobbling up the following argument
04:09.03CIA-14BRL-CAD: incorrectly. e.g g-dxf -i -o filename.dxf blah.g object would end up in a
04:09.03CIA-14BRL-CAD: filename.dxf error.
04:09.57brlcadthanks, great lil catch!
04:11.45deltazapno problem :D
04:12.22deltazapglad to put the g-dxf converter through it's paces ;)
04:26.38deltazapdoot doot doo, almost done with building 7.8.4
04:29.33Twingyalmost done? you obviously need a slower computer
04:30.54deltazapit's a PPC
04:30.59deltazapPoor Persons Computer
04:31.30TwingyI should have never sold my Mac SE
04:31.40TwingyI still have a 60 MHz PowerPC
04:31.46TwingyI bet mine is slower
04:31.55deltazapoh, yeah, of course it is
04:32.02deltazapmine's a 1.2 ghz g4
04:32.07Twingyyea, just a tad faster
04:32.09deltazapwoo, done
04:32.13TwingyI have 24MB of ram in it
04:32.22Twingyand a 500GB scsi drive
04:32.27Twingyerr 500MB
04:35.08deltazapbah!  qcad still can't display the .dxf
04:45.14brlcadqcad could have their own independent issues
04:45.16brlcadwhat about 2002?
04:45.41deltazapdon't have it on me right now, will check when i get to campus
04:46.36brlcadiirc, qcad's dxf importer is actually a rather custom subset hack
04:46.48brlcadbut it's been a while
04:47.30brlcadvaguely recall someone saying it couldn't parse entity names that had punctuation in them or something like that
04:48.15deltazaphmm
04:48.49brlcadnot saying that's a the problem.. one of probably a dozen similar conformance issues
04:49.49deltazapfor marking up dimesions, it seems like autocad is about the only options out there
04:49.52brlcadif you can find why qcad chokes, would be good to know to try and accommodate them
04:50.00deltazapyeah
04:50.18brlcadmaybe they have a verbose/debug mode or something similar
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09:44.05clock_What do you think about this logo for the upcoming Twibrigt Labs' monolithic operating system SPAD? http://ronja.twibright.com/spad.png
12:46.44deltazaphuh, i should have tested mged last night...
13:22.43brlcaddeltazap: why's that?
13:27.13deltazaperror with itcl
13:29.44deltazap"Itcl_Init error Can't find a usable itcl.tcl in the following directories:
13:29.49brlcadah, it found a system tcl
13:29.52brlcader, itcl
13:30.14brlcadadd --enable-itcl-build to configure
13:30.28brlcadassuming you're on head
13:31.25deltazapthis error came from launching mged after building the 7.8.4 sources
13:32.39deltazapthe error is saying that it couldn't find a system itcl anywhere in /System/Library
13:35.53brlcadoooh, 7.8.4
13:36.02brlcadthat's another ball of wax
13:36.37brlcadwith 7.8.4, it would have tried to use the Tcl framework, which won't work with that version
13:36.45deltazap:X
13:36.47brlcadthat's all rather changed
13:37.03brlcadadd --enable-almost-everything instead ;)
13:37.16brlcadthat should make 7.8.4 happy on os x
13:37.26brlcadand --enable-optimized of course
13:37.43brlcador just wait for the 7.10.0 tarball later today
13:38.07deltazaphmm, alright
13:56.34deltazapalright, time to get running to school for test
15:10.33``Erik*yawn*
15:11.35``Eriky'know, she's pissing me off. I was over at the conf room for the ccb, gave up a couple minutes after 10... came back to the office, decided I was bored so I read email... she scrubbed it this morning. be nice if a little more notice were given, some of us don't read email every hour :/
15:13.04``Erik(I'm seeing the /tmp issue, too... I set TMPDIR=/usr/tmp to see if that fixes things, the line in the makefile is: && dc_destdir="$${TMPDIR-/tmp}/am-dc-$$$$/"
15:13.07``Erik)
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16:23.18deltazapwhoops, wrong window :X
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19:31.22IriX647-10 tarball?
19:31.48IriX64where?
19:33.33IriX64not on sourceforge :(
19:36.06``Erikbrlcad is being a lazy turd and chattering instead of releasing...
19:36.29IriX64heh well it is a chat network
19:36.36``Erikin person...
19:36.44IriX64err ok :)
19:38.13IriX64``Erik i'm thinking of getting a real system, what would you recommend for a nove *nix user?
19:39.14IriX64err novice
19:40.30``Erikuh, system as in OS or hardware?
19:40.35deltazapIriX64: mac :P
19:40.41IriX64tiger?
19:41.02IriX64heh how much for a basic good boxen?
19:41.52deltazapa mac mini runs at about $600 now
19:42.01IriX64thats all?
19:42.12``ErikI bought my ibook for $700 4 yrs ago
19:42.17deltazapyeah, one of the little tiny machines
19:42.27deltazapand i bought my ibook 2 years ago for 900
19:42.40IriX64this is doable
19:42.50IriX64i never followed the mac line
19:42.52``Eriknot like they're obscenely expensive unless you go high end *shrug*
19:43.02IriX64don't need high end
19:43.18``ErikI think the one I'm sitting at now was ~$10k... two 23" cinemadisplays plus all maxed out specs for a dual g5 tower
19:43.24deltazapIriX64: get one of these: http://www.apple.com/macpro/
19:43.47``Erikof course, you could just slap fbsd or leenewx on any old functional 'puter
19:43.58``Erikdual boot your winderz box or something *shrug*
19:44.27IriX64deltazap isn't that considered high end?
19:44.28deltazapIriX64: if you want to just mess with Linux, try out Ubuntu
19:44.34deltazapyeah :D
19:44.42IriX64heh
19:44.42deltazapbut look at it!  8 cores!
19:45.00IriX64gimme a braek i wouldnt know aht to do with that
19:45.34``Erikrt knows what to do with that
19:45.37deltazapmake -j8 all day
19:45.39``Erikheh
19:45.46IriX64maybe a gift from the easter bunny :)
19:45.46``Erikgmake -sj
19:46.28IriX64don't get me wrong i like my current setup (quite functional)
19:47.40IriX64-msse3 (ohhhh baby)
19:48.43deltazapso, i can confirm that the dxf converter isn't completely broken, some programs can read files from it
19:48.57deltazapit's just autocad and qcad that are broken :P
19:49.04``Erikhrm, only $14k
19:50.17IriX64for that system deltazap pointed me to?
19:50.59``Erikfor a dressed up mac pro
19:51.11``Erikhow I'd probably get one if I made work buy it :)
19:51.15``Eriktempting...
19:51.22IriX64wonder if she'd let me undress her :)
19:53.20IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/425903    <-- brlcad being compiled by my strange system :)
19:57.25IriX64don't get that statement at link time :)
19:58.57deltazapdoobie shoobie dooot
19:59.27IriX64heh living on the fault line (doobie brothers circa 73)
20:05.11IriX64where can i study up on endianess?
20:05.26IriX64ahhh never mind ill try thos google thing
20:05.31IriX64this too
20:09.50IriX64ahh big-endian is stored the way we write it true?
20:10.22IriX64?
20:10.52IriX64ie 1025 vs 2510
20:37.51``Erikbig endian is the way youd' think it's stored... the hex value aabbccdd is stored as aa bb cc dd, opposed to dd cc bb aa
20:38.17IriX64thats what i meant
20:38.37``Erikthe C one-liner for showing how it's stored is something like...
20:38.38``Erikint main(int argc, char **argv) { union { int v; char c[4]; } v; v.v = 0xaabbccdd; printf("%x is %x %x %x %x\n", v.v, 0xff&v.c[0], 0xff&v.c[1], 0xff&v.c[2], 0xff&v.c[3]); return 0; }
20:38.42IriX64whose brainchild is little-endian :)
20:38.47``Erikintel.
20:39.05IriX64heh
20:39.07``Erikdec was doing "middle-endian" though
20:39.17IriX64middle?
20:39.22IriX64news to me
20:39.26deltazapi'm going to end up marking up this schematic with photoshop :X
20:40.00``Erikirix64: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness
20:40.15IriX64dec did 12737 301 777566 and it appeared that way in memory
20:40.27IriX64loc 1000 etc
20:40.59IriX641000/12737 10001/301 1002/777566
20:41.45IriX64just puts an 'A' to the typer :)
20:41.58IriX64but if you add 137 1000 it loops forever
20:42.22``Erikpdp11 stored 0x0a0b0c0d as b a d c
20:42.38IriX64true but it was transparent
20:42.45``Erikheh, "bad c"... how... fitting? :D
20:42.51IriX64ie the concole handled it as well as the compiler
20:43.02IriX64console too
20:43.08IriX64:)
20:43.20``Erikall machines make it "transparent" when the machien stands alone... it's not until you try to do data exchange between two machines of different endian and/or bit width that issues crop up
20:43.51``Erikand the intarweb is built big endian, so it's only a bitch for people who touch wrong-endian machines... er... little endian machines...
20:44.00IriX64not just data exchange such is true for trying to compile on one type for another type
20:44.10IriX64heh
20:44.54``Erikum, type casts are handled "intelligently" by the compiler... if you cast a long to a short (provided it fits), it'll handle placing the bytes for you...
20:45.32IriX64the compiler *should tell you if its a proper cast or not
20:45.51IriX64brlcad has such as warnings
20:46.20IriX64initialization from incompatible pointer type
20:46.30``Erikyes, they'll warn... but they'll figure out where to put the bits... you don't have to do it "by hand"
20:46.40IriX64true
20:46.54IriX64if its worth its salt that is some just kaff
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20:48.45IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/425971    <--- speak of the devil
20:49.47louipcI'm not sure what to say about him
20:50.19``Erikwhich one? the robot devil?
20:51.11IriX64she devil....oh yeah ;)
20:52.25louipcfembots
20:53.03IriX64seven of borg
20:53.39``Eriksix was cooler... (tripping the rift)
20:54.03IriX64caution 'e' detected... incoming ;)
20:55.09deltazap``Erik: i thought you were talking about caprica six
20:55.31``Erikoh, well... yeah, tricia's pretty rockin', too
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21:21.46IriX64that multiple definition of ogl_open etc thing fixed in 7-10?
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21:29.11IriX64if memory serves there are two ogl_open routines, in mged and libdm (i think)
21:30.04brlcadlibfb and libdm
21:30.11IriX64ty
21:30.28IriX64you grep very fast :)
21:30.34IriX64im slow
21:30.44IriX64builds ok without opengl though
21:30.57brlcadno grep involved
21:31.09brlcadjust know it
21:31.14IriX64kudos
21:31.14brlcadthat code has changed on head too
21:31.19IriX64ty
21:31.22brlcadno longer named the same
21:31.40IriX64ty
21:34.15IriX64i noticed they were different :)
22:17.41deltazapwhen does the topic change to "7.10 release party"?
22:17.54brlcad:)
22:18.12IriX64you did it?
22:20.24IriX64nope :)
22:28.47deltazapthe cvs instructions on brlcad.org, are those for head?
22:34.17louipcseems to be
22:35.10louipcsometimes it doesn't update properly for me if I already have cvs sources
22:35.56louipcso I just get them all fresh again. I'm not sure why that is, I've never properly looked into how to use CVS though :/
22:36.34deltazapi've never really used cvs, only messed with svn
22:36.58deltazapthe build i did at home failed :-\
22:37.05louipcaw
22:37.13louipcI haven't tried for awhile
22:37.31deltazapi'm not sure what exactly went wrong, think it was during the make
22:37.40brlcaddeltazap: svn was made to be a cvs replacement.. the syntax is nearly identical
22:37.53brlcadlouipc: probably miss "cvs update -dP"
22:38.10deltazapsvn is nice
22:38.15brlcadthat checks for new directories and prunes old/empty ones (svn does that by default)
22:38.24brlcadsvn is nice
22:38.31brlcadwe'll move to it soon enough, just not yet ;)
22:38.45louipccool thanks. I thought co would automatically update o.O
22:38.56brlcadco means checkout
22:39.04brlcadyou only checkout once
22:39.07deltazapsvn up
22:39.14brlcadfrom then, you update
22:39.22brlcadcvs up -dP
22:39.38brlcadthere are shorthands for all the commands in both cvs and svn
22:39.43louipcah
22:45.07deltazapbrlcad: i found out that g-dxf does ok for conversion, it seems that qcad is the one who's broken
22:45.21deltazapi found a dxf viewer that renders the converted file just fine
22:47.10IriX64deltazap do you have access to acad dwgs? can you produce a dxf and turn it into a g file?
22:47.59louipchave you seen that? -> http://www.opendwg.org/
22:48.20deltazapi just have a few dxf's from qcad's examples and they will convert over to brl, but they're a bit weird
22:48.36``Eriksvn was designed to be "pretty darn similar" to cvs... other than the minor caveats (cvs doens't compress by default, you must do -z3 or something.... cvs wants you to give it the -dP for new dir and pruning...)...
22:49.25deltazaplouipc: no, i haven't, but i will look
22:49.44IriX64louipc not a bad idea.
22:50.04IriX64but i was just looking for the shuttle :)
22:50.20deltazapthe only thing that i need autocad for is to attach dimesions onto a schematic so i can send it to a metal shop to be fabricated
22:50.44IriX64what are you fabricating
22:51.49``ErikBRL-CAD kinda focuses on engineering analysis, not production or design... so we don't have autocad/pro-e/catia/etc type features
22:53.09``Erikoh wow, I was cut down to two seconds on my acting debut... at least I got the movie for free, I suppose o.O
22:53.13bjorkBSDdeltazap, what do you fabricate?
22:53.13deltazap``Erik: yeah, i know, but it was much easier to use to make a solid model since it's the only software i had available/knew on monday ;)
22:53.30IriX64read its a fully enable prototyping environment
22:53.37IriX64enabled to
22:53.46bjorkBSDtoo too :)
22:53.52IriX64heh
22:54.01deltazapit's a set of landing skids for model helicopters that i work on at a research lab
22:54.20``Erikwhich research lab?
22:54.27bjorkBSDyeah. 'a'.
22:54.29``Erikif you don't mind asking
22:54.30``Eriker
22:54.32``Erikmy asking
22:54.33``ErikO:-)
22:54.42deltazapa university lab
22:54.44bjorkBSDit's the  deltazapNL
22:55.12bjorkBSDwhat do they need helicopters for?
22:55.18``Erikand as you think of things that would make it easier, feel free to implement them... :D if you need pointers on where to look, this is a good place to ask
22:55.23deltazaphttp://www.cse.usf.edu/USL/uslindex.htm
22:55.43deltazapbjorkBSD: autonomous robots
22:55.57bjorkBSDah
22:56.16deltazapso, we need special landing skids to hold the computers
22:56.45bjorkBSDthe skids hold the computers?
22:56.56deltazapyeah, hold on, uploading a picture ;)
22:57.15bjorkBSDa computer-napping 'bot?
22:58.28deltazaphttp://zap.bonzoesc.net/pics/usl/skids.png
22:58.58bjorkBSDah
22:59.23louipcneat
22:59.28``Erikheh, looks like you put the pipe primitive through the ringer :D
22:59.54deltazap``Erik: it was my friend
23:00.06IriX64did you do that with brlcad or acad or import or what
23:00.14deltazapi did that in brlcad
23:00.21IriX64beautifull
23:00.29IriX64wish i was as talented
23:00.42bjorkBSDi wish i could wish.
23:00.44bjorkBSD*sigh*
23:00.53deltazapIriX64: i've only had about a week of practice
23:00.54IriX64you can but you still walk :)
23:01.57bjorkBSDwhat's it gonna say: all i got from brl-cad was this mug
23:02.08deltazaphahaha
23:02.39IriX64"Thanks for being lots & lots of code brlcad" ;)
23:03.00bjorkBSDto wong foo, no doubt.
23:03.15IriX64foui lango actually
23:03.16deltazapbut, like i said, i need to be able to put dimesions on this to be made
23:03.36louipc- 'your drag alias here'
23:03.37IriX64isn't there a materials list?
23:04.19``Erika few, actually... BRL-CAD stores "GIFT" materials
23:04.27deltazaphmm?
23:05.18``Erikum, and using that, you can actually compute things lik ethe mass of your model (rtweight)
23:05.33``Erikmight be important for aircraft :)
23:06.11deltazaphah
23:06.13bjorkBSDweight? trivial. it's either lighter or heavier than air :P
23:06.26louipcwell you want to make things that fly as light as you can
23:06.26bjorkBSDthe matter should be settled with a coin toss.
23:06.31``Erikheh, does the coin fall or float?
23:06.38bjorkBSDhahah
23:06.48``Eriklast time I checked, most helicoptors and fixed wing craft are a bit heavier than air...
23:06.58``Erikblimps and zeppelins aren't all that common these days
23:07.01bjorkBSDlittle bit.
23:07.15deltazap``Erik: they are, that's why i'm in a rush to get these skids done :P
23:07.41bjorkBSDthere's a movie called white diamond about a blimp and it's maker.
23:07.51``Erikdelta: so that's all aluminum and tig welded?
23:08.00deltazapwill be when it's done
23:08.07``Erikcool
23:08.26deltazapthe front will have a camera mounted on a pan/tilt
23:08.39``Erik<-- has done r/c planes, has done a sim for r/c helicoptors, but has only done ground robots
23:08.53deltazapwe have those as well
23:08.58deltazaplittle pain in the...
23:09.13``Erikand the ground robot was a toy, a lego thing using a 6811 for an undergrad ai class
23:12.32louipchehe I played with that lego robot kit
23:14.26deltazap``Erik: the only feature i can think of right now that would be most excellent is tab completion
23:14.44louipcyeah I thought the same
23:20.16deltazapis there a list of materials you can set?
23:20.34bjorkBSDtclsh and wish don't have tab completion either.
23:21.01bjorkBSDmaybe it's time to make some noise about that? :D
23:33.51IriX64actually it's time to change the acoustical model :)
23:35.13IriX64swing town sounds much better in a concert hall :)
23:38.30deltazapohhhhhh, it's the shaders listed in the combination editor
23:40.04IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/brlcad    <----- project sound
23:43.31IriX64make clean forgot to flush the toilet :)
23:44.35IriX64project sound is tied to my motherboard though.
23:47.51IriX64deltazap, I'm only an Electronics Engineering Technologist, what disipline are you trying for?
23:48.12deltazapmechanical engineering
23:48.21IriX64how far along are you?
23:48.38deltazapabout a summer and a semster away from graduation :)
23:48.52IriX64haha looking forward to it are you?
23:49.34deltazapvery much, but i don't know if i'm going to go for my masters now or just get into open
23:50.08IriX64masters if i were you (take it from one who wishes he had gone on)
23:50.59IriX64although life experience counts too
23:57.13deltazapyeah, that's what i'm thinking
23:57.16deltazapit's hard to decide
23:57.32deltazap2 years of fake student money or start working and get real dollars :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070406

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070406

00:06.27IriX64as long as your currency isn't blood you'll be alright.
00:08.07IriX64CCR=? deltazap:
00:08.25deltazap???
00:08.38IriX64yeah you're young ;)
00:09.36louipccredit card?
00:09.52louipchmmm
00:10.04IriX64Canadian Continetal Railway ;)
00:10.14IriX64+n
00:10.56louipcCreedence Clearwater Revival?
00:11.04IriX64yes
00:11.19IriX64we are of an age you and i
00:11.39deltazapoh, hahaha
00:11.49IriX64:)
00:12.19deltazapi didn't know you were looking for an answer to a acryonym
00:12.47IriX64you missed the ? character :)
00:16.53IriX64I can't beleive it links like that
00:17.15IriX64wonder what runtime will do :)
00:25.09IriX64gotta switch to wireless mode l8r folks
00:37.43brlcadbjorkBSD: hehe, that's a great idea for a mug ... i like it :)
00:49.22*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014963.dsl.bell.ca)
01:06.03CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: riker notes that hd and wall conflict with similarly named system tools, consider renaming. love the mug idea from bjork... :)
01:06.21bjorkBSDy/w :D
02:03.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/426312   <---- brlcad for your interest
02:04.15IriX64dm and fb went by fine ;)
03:24.49IriX64coutney spears
03:24.56IriX64err courtney
03:25.21IriX64rminds me of Rebbecca Lyn Howard
03:25.40IriX64err reminds me, sigh ill shut up now i can't type :)
03:29.52IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/426390  <-- is this sort of thing usefull in a linker?
03:31.58IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/426399   <--- more of the same but system stuff
03:33.27IriX64urf --cref failed tho
06:31.15IriX64:)
13:33.31``Erikheh, tab completion would go into src/mged, I think all the commands are registered as tcl symbols (so you'd either need to keep a mirror of that structure in like a trie or osmething, or figure out how to interrogate tcl's internal symbol table)
13:34.02``Erikfor geometry, um, the names are retained in the region tree handled in src/librt (um, include/raytrace.h and include/rtgeom.h might be useful)
13:44.14brlcador see someone else
13:52.22``Erikheh, which libedit? the netbsd one? the sf one? ...
13:52.46``Erikand there'll be three warring tribes no matter what interface is used... the emacs users, the vi users, and the 'puny mortals'
14:05.30*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705560.dsl.bell.ca)
14:09.53*** join/#brlcad jack-104 (i=jack@dub.minimal.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
14:42.39*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734837.dsl.bell.ca)
15:05.19*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705662.dsl.bell.ca)
18:31.18*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014963.dsl.bell.ca)
18:45.27IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/427307      <---- milestone
18:47.43IriX64thanks to ``Erik for turning me on to the file command ;)
18:53.46IriX64which file(s) do i want off cvs browse to fix that multiple definition error (opengl() i think)?
18:57.41IriX64bwahhah jove crashed (thats a good thing)
19:21.12IriX64:( headers still wrong
20:04.30IriX64http://www.msnusers.com/IriX64sGroup/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1    trying something :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070407

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070407

02:50.26*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178014963.dsl.bell.ca)
02:51.34IriX64www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad     <----- windows archer in action if anyones interested
02:56.45IriX64check it again :)
02:59.34IriX64seriously...which filke should i replace..if_ogl.c or dm_ogl.c ?
02:59.40IriX64file too
03:02.01IriX64you didn't put the fix on sourceforge?
03:03.31IriX64ill pastebin the error just a sec...
03:04.41IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/427924
03:36.06*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:39.47IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/427977 --cref is starting to work now
04:39.54IriX64:)
05:24.11*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
05:55.55IriX64sorry man
09:44.10*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.36)
11:20.02*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613315.dsl.bell.ca)
12:31.20*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
12:31.20*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
14:15.18*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:02.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@70.55.20.243)
18:05.23IriX64further to last night, if you disable opengl the multiple defs go away.
18:24.49Twingypeanut buttah jelly time
18:25.38louipchttp://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/peanutbutter.html
18:26.20archivistno me
18:26.26archivistnor
18:26.59archivistdebian did not like it when I tried
18:29.06louipchehe
18:43.25IriX64heh louipc: that could be me :)
18:44.04IriX64no flash? no disney.com for you :)
18:45.07IriX64-Map=brlcad.map.... if I get it built i'll e-mail you the map file :)
18:47.24IriX64Twingy: does gcam have a thread calculator?
18:53.21Twingyno, it doesn't do threading
18:55.07IriX64how small can you go?
18:55.29IriX64mm?
18:56.12Twingyhuh?
18:56.23IriX64smallest part you can mill?
18:56.51Twingy0.00001 inches
18:57.13Twingyor 0.00001 mm if your machine is that accurate
18:57.13deltazapyou can mill smaller than a mil :P
18:57.33Twingymy machine is accurate to 0.00003125"
18:57.54deltazappersonal or work mill?
18:57.57IriX64designed just for milling machines? or do you do lathes too?
18:57.58Twingypersonal
18:58.10Twingylathes will come next, you should read the wiki and stop asking :)
18:58.23deltazap:O
18:58.25IriX64heh i'm illeterate :)
18:58.30IriX64see :)
18:58.32deltazaphow much did that set you back?
18:58.37Twingyyou're lazy
18:58.42Twingy$1800
18:58.46IriX64that too
18:58.58deltazapthat's it? wow
18:59.35Twingyplan to spend another $200 on jigs and end mills
18:59.58deltazapyeah
18:59.58archivistdont confuse accuracy with resolution
18:59.58Twingyand collets etc
19:00.24Twingyarchivist, assuming no backlash, it's 0.00003125" accuracy
19:00.34deltazapwhere did you get that from?
19:00.40archivistlead screw that good?
19:00.49Twingy1 / (20tpi * 200spi * 8sr)
19:01.36archivistput some independent measuring on it to check
19:01.48Twingyheh, my callipers don't even go that low
19:01.59Twingythey are only good to 0.0005" I think
19:02.17Twingybeyond 0.0001" I could care less what it is
19:02.29archivistyour calipers could actually be better than the lead screw
19:03.02louipcyou could easily make the app program for even greater precision
19:03.22louipcbut the machine might not be able to deal with it heh
19:03.31Twingywhen people start using gcam more and make suggests I'll integrate them
19:03.48archivista bit of optical feedback
19:04.03Twingyno optical encoders on my steppers
19:04.23louipcmayhaps I shall make a pkg for gcam
19:04.30archivistnah on the slides to get the real info
19:05.32Twingylouipc, for what os?
19:06.35louipcarchlinux
19:13.09louipcouch segfault
19:13.53louipcls
19:13.55louipcoosp
19:14.00deltazaphaha
19:14.41IriX64something I did broke my btclsh still trying to sort it out
19:32.08louipchmm something is wonky when it tries to install stuff in share/
19:32.29IriX64louipc what version?
19:32.34louipcit uses $DESTDIR/$DESTDIR/share
19:32.45louipc2007.03.23
19:33.07IriX64pardon?
19:33.19IriX64what are we talking here?
19:33.35louipcmake DESTDIR=/my/dir/for/pkgs install
19:45.42louipcyeap
19:46.55bjorkBSDbrb
19:48.13louipci'm talking about gcam
20:08.02*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543836.dsl.bell.ca)
20:13.54IriX64how do i get around these intentional core dump due to debug flag? will --disable-debug do it?
20:14.27*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-69-250-146-28.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:22.59IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/428764   <--- portion of the map file :)
20:36.58*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:38.56IriX64couple a map file with a stackdump and i'll have a clue :)
20:45.35IriX64http://groups.msn.com/IriX64sGroup/shoebox.msnw      <---- playing with groups while i wait, fun stuff :)
22:25.38*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
23:02.13Twingywhut
23:58.26*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669318.dsl.bell.ca)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070408

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070408

02:04.05*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
04:34.33*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754454.dsl.bell.ca)
11:26.20*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667191.dsl.bell.ca)
12:01.32*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543803.dsl.bell.ca)
14:59.36*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548774ad.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:23.11*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
15:50.03*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543803.dsl.bell.ca)
15:53.34*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
16:23.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca)
16:32.44*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
16:43.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca)
17:19.07*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
17:34.32IriX64a 5hr compile?  urf
17:35.31bjorkBSDonly 5hrs? :O
17:35.50IriX64o solo mio :)
17:36.10archivistoil the computer so it goes quicker
17:36.19IriX64sean@crew.local?
17:36.43IriX64good girl... have a grease biscuit :)
17:36.57IriX64that was directed at my computer :)
17:37.38archivistI must grease the brakes on the van it squeeks a bit
17:38.07IriX64heh slip sliding away archivist :)
17:49.19``Erikcould just pop off those annoying pads to stop the squeak... or maybe you have too much brake fluid, drain it all... :D
17:49.42IriX64heh the easy way :D
17:49.58IriX64just don't drive it
17:49.58bjorkBSDstop using the brakes. it's what your feet are for.
17:50.10IriX64flintstone style?
17:50.10bjorkBSD... and trees :D
17:50.13bjorkBSD'xactly.
17:51.01IriX64must i post this photon map of havoc? (its not finished yet)
17:55.11IriX64as twingy said i know nothing about global illumination :)
18:02.25IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad    if you're curious
18:03.07IriX64did i post it right this time?
18:05.54IriX64cleverly designed into each compile, is a good long coffee break, ill be back shortly :)
18:10.40*** part/#brlcad ki6ijg (n=wegstar@h69-128-116-234.69-128.unk.tds.net)
18:31.20IriX64same url, tell twing i "gave it some light"
18:31.24IriX64twingy too
18:50.16*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543803.dsl.bell.ca)
18:52.37IriX64same url just so you know im not runnning seans binaries.
18:54.18IriX64was playing with those, just to see :)
19:07.48*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705756.dsl.bell.ca)
19:20.51*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705756.dsl.bell.ca)
21:03.37*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070409

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070409

00:19.21*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706233.dsl.bell.ca)
00:25.57*** join/#brlcad louipc__ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669203.dsl.bell.ca)
00:39.51*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707220.dsl.bell.ca)
01:12.51*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706137.dsl.bell.ca)
01:35.18*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613715.dsl.bell.ca)
01:40.54*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613715.dsl.bell.ca)
03:19.25*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca)
04:48.39*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:50.58IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad     <---- made a mess outta my mug :)
04:51.56IriX64brl-cad albumn
05:10.14IriX64same url and albumn, freshly built brlcad :)
08:40.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca)
09:19.26IriX64welcome home
09:30.21IriX64is the car happy to be home
09:31.16IriX64i renamed badmagic.c to badjuju.c and everythings hunky noe :)
09:31.27IriX64now too
09:45.39IriX64nytol
09:47.50brlcadcya
10:19.37*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com)
12:21.15brlcadaway
12:54.59CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: use bu_file_exists() instead of Tcl_FSStat() to avoid getting header define/symbol mixups in tcl headers (that seem to be causing a crash at least on some linux due to Tcl_StatBuf getting written past, wrong size)
13:02.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
13:02.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: remove the call to the private TclInitEncodingSubsystem() call that worked
13:02.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: around a 8.4/8.5 race-condition bug inside Tcl_FindExecutable() whereby mged
13:02.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: would crash. it's not reproduced on a simple test case any more for unknown
13:02.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: reasons.
13:28.50*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:01.07``Erikhum, still no 7.10.0 ?
16:42.10*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos__ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
18:17.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
18:17.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: stash the current configuration args before adding additional ones for the
18:17.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: subconfigures, then restore to the original so recheck configures don't persist
18:17.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: the subconfigure arguments to the top configure (e.g. --disable-shared)
18:23.34deltazap``Erik: looks like not ;_;
19:00.13*** join/#brlcad cad83 (n=46bcbab6@bz.bzflag.bz)
19:14.39*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548759e4.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:57.35*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.170.216)
20:34.06*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:34.06*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
20:35.30*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:35.30*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 release preparations coming soon to a tarball near you...
22:25.54IriX64ole blue eyes sings "My Way" ... beautifull
23:33.29*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070410

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070410

00:10.22IriX64ahh a homebody :)
00:10.33*** part/#brlcad tedcx (n=root@71.237.138.185)
00:12.09IriX64it's too
00:18.42IriX6457 minutes 16 seconds, but it completed :)
00:19.49IriX64now to build another mug, what color please ;)
00:23.27IriX64you guys should choose a love biscuit for your project you know, something like project KryStal  :)
00:37.36IriX64mmm the x framebuffer comes up but the ogl one does not
00:42.29IriX64bwaha... it's photon mapping havoc
00:43.57IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/432024      hehehhee
00:48.37IriX64hot oil for you tonight cassandra :)
00:48.57IriX64errr maybe warm elctrons
00:49.03IriX64electrons too
01:09.20IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com brl-cad albumn... Unix high on windows
01:11.28IriX64man, 5 cygwin dll's and this thing works on my windereze boxen.
01:11.41IriX64still need an x serv tho
01:13.32brlcadIriX64: you should fix those overlaps
01:14.30IriX64heh ill put that in a s a tutorial
01:14.35IriX64as
01:16.55IriX64gonna transfer that dir to my windows xp-home machine and see if itll come up.
01:17.10IriX64no cygwin on that machine
01:18.01IriX64urf bad idea, no xserv either
01:22.05IriX64sean, i'm running this thing *outside the cygwin environment, and it's sweet.
01:22.55brlcadit would be sweeter if you cleared up the overlaps
01:23.13IriX64xservs are xservs, anybody with a windows box that has an xserv on it should be able to drop this directory in and run it.
01:23.40IriX64overlaps there a tool for that which doesn't work yet
01:24.22IriX64show you a screenshot in a sec...
01:28.14brlcadrtcheck will report on overlaps, and visualize them if run from within mged
01:30.17IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos    the brl-cad albumn have a look
01:33.52IriX64now have a look at the editor (Overlap tool2)
01:54.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (ChangeLog NEWS TODO configure.ac include/config_win.h): final release preparations, update to 7.10.0
02:00.19*** join/#brlcad malcoholm (n=cb6d9f45@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:01.14brlcadhellos malcoholm
02:01.25brlcadgoodbyes malcoholm
02:01.52IriX64heh you scared him
02:02.22IriX64moody too
02:02.53IriX64those muli-dfines keep my ogl from working
02:03.01IriX64defines too
02:03.15brlcadseriously.. get .. over .. it
02:03.19brlcadit's already fixed in head
02:03.25brlcadand a release is about to be made
02:03.27IriX64heh i gripe a lot :)
02:03.32brlcadso you can complain if the latest doesn't work
02:03.48IriX64seriously how soon?
02:04.01brlcadyou did just see the commit, no?
02:04.12IriX64didn't notice just a sec.
02:04.34IriX64its there?
02:04.56brlcadwhat did I just write?
02:05.41IriX64where sourceforge.net still lists 7.8.4 as latest
02:06.05brlcadi said nothing about sourceforge
02:06.12IriX64where then?
02:06.25brlcadforget it
02:06.29brlcadjust wait for the announcement
02:06.36IriX64ok ty
02:50.27brlcadsource tarball is now uploaded, binaries and e-mail announcements on their way through tomorrow
03:00.27deltazapbrlcad: anything that i should know about building it myself?
03:02.43brlcaddeltazap: erhm.. dunno
03:02.59brlcadthere are a variety of configure options for various situations
03:03.12brlcaddefault should get you somewhere.. if it doesn't, it's a build bug
03:03.46brlcadthis update includes a lot of dependency updates too, so I'm entirely expecting there to be some instability on some environments
03:03.57brlcadnot run-time -- compile-time instabilities
03:07.23*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
03:49.03IriX64jack-104: are you a serious user of brl-cad or like me just a novice?
03:57.14``Erikheh, moody blues were pretty awesome
04:05.45IriX64moody blues music is beautiful
04:57.40*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-95-111.dclient.hispeed.ch)
05:22.38IriX64best hello world program i ever wrote... and it runs without cygwin1.dll  ;)
05:29.56clock_cygwin1.dll is evil
05:30.18IriX64heh so is cygcrypt.dll :)
05:30.27clock_Cygwin detected a version mismatch between various versions of cygwin1.dll - now you need to search your system and delete one of them
05:30.40clock_very nice if you are doing something that's supposed to work for a layman
05:30.47IriX64been there done that
05:30.55clock_like cygwin1.dll couldn't delete itself automatically? ;-)
05:31.14IriX64should by all rights be back and forward compatible no?
05:31.19IriX64:)
05:31.23clock_no it isn't
05:31.32IriX64i know
05:31.41clock_if you have Cygwin installed and run a program that's shipped with own cygwin.dll, it blows up
05:31.59IriX64sadly true, both blow up
05:32.12clock_if you don't ship a program with cygwin.dll then it doesn't run without cygwin installed and installing cygwin is a major pita
05:32.23IriX64true
05:32.39IriX64which is why id like -mno-cygwin to work
05:32.46clock_;-)
05:32.52IriX64:)
05:36.40IriX64jack-104: what are you doing playing with that mug when people want to talk to you :)
06:21.22IriX64wake up :)
08:21.15*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548759e4.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:18.37deltazapruh-roh!
10:19.07deltazapmake errored out
10:19.35deltazap" No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'.  Stop."
10:23.28deltazapthis with "make --enable-almost-everything --enable-optimized"
10:49.57deltazaper...not make, where's my head this morning
10:50.02deltazap<PROTECTED>
11:53.53brlcaddeltazap: bah..
11:53.58brlcadadd --disable-jove
11:54.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am: missing jove-tutorial from dist
12:52.39*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h66n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com)
13:36.36deltazapbrlcad: hey, that's what i'm here for: testing
13:36.41deltazapall i know is "pres butan to go"
14:10.58clock_press butane to go?
14:13.47deltazapbad mac joke :P
15:23.54*** join/#brlcad daggerr (n=daggerr@h37n11c1o1019.bredband.skanova.com)
18:27.29IriX64deltazap.... try make creation :P
18:29.24brlcaddeltazap: :)
18:37.39*** join/#brlcad cad50 (n=47f87232@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:42.33IriX64is it easier to maintain, splitting the configure up like that?
18:43.58brlcadour configure is nearly four thousand lines.. not sure I'd call that "split up"
18:44.22IriX64was referring to the configure that runs for tcl tk
18:44.36IriX64stead of pre 7.10 style
18:47.55brlcadwe didn't "split it up", I just let configure run it's own -- they have their own build setup
18:48.13IriX64understood
19:05.14CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: ignore brep_simple
19:23.10brlcadyou're probably still better off with --enable-all --disable-jove
19:23.22IriX64will try this first
19:24.14IriX64but im easy lets do that. ;)
19:25.15IriX64jove is deprecated?
19:27.04*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54877E90.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:27.57brlcadjove has been deprecated for a decade
19:28.24IriX64heh thats why no lightning bolts ?
19:29.07brlcadhuh?
19:29.31IriX64heh norse mythology , but i'm getting thor and jove mixed up :)
19:29.54brlcadand zeus apparently
19:29.57IriX64err jove and zeus
19:30.02IriX64:)
19:31.41daggerrthor did make thunder too :)
19:32.12IriX64mjolinor forever :)
19:32.22IriX64did i spell it right?
19:32.41daggerrIriX64, i dont know :) in sweden its spelled mjölner
19:32.52IriX64ty :)
19:33.45IriX64how do you do that over the o?
19:33.51IriX64alt combo?
19:34.22daggerrIriX64, i just press the key wit an ö on it :)
19:34.32daggerri've got a swedish keyboard :)
19:35.07IriX64heh make sense then
19:35.11IriX64makes too
19:36.40IriX64there
19:42.10IriX64daggerr are you experienced at cad with brl-cad? (im here to learn, don't worry i won't badger you with questions)
19:42.42daggerrIriX64, in here for the same reason as you :)
19:42.49daggerrI've used it a little bit
19:42.58daggerrbut it was almost a year ago
19:42.59IriX64good place for it :)
19:43.35daggerrif you have a question the ppl in this channel seems to be eager to help so i found it really good back then :)
19:43.48IriX64im just playing with the examples haven't really even got my mug yet
19:48.54daggerrIriX64, i did the radio then i started working on my own projects
19:49.23IriX64I'll get to that some day :)
19:51.04daggerrIriX64, i think it was the first. it was in the introduction to mged or so.. i dont remember exactly :)
20:00.13*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:04.19IriX64:) have played with the tutorial but i'm lousy at geometry so don't know how well i'll make out
20:28.03*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593477.dsl.bell.ca)
20:44.23joevalle1fieldany meshes in .g floating around?
20:45.19brlcadjoevalle1field: how big you need?
20:45.50joevalle1fieldno size in particular
20:48.22``Erikseveral, I can get you the hilux... (I haven't gotten you rf becuase of BRL-CAD related build issues... stupid c++ pollution)
20:48.45``Erikor you can just hop in mged and facetize something...
20:49.15brlcadyeah, that or g-nmg is probably the fastest start
20:49.41brlcadelse I have t62 already facetized around here somewhere too as well as some humanoid thing you'd probably recognize
20:49.50``Erikheh
20:50.12``Erikgot a cornelius? :D
20:53.25joevalle1fieldwhat's a cornelius?
20:54.02``Erikdemo geometry that comes with blender
20:54.19``Erikalso a dude on planet of teh grapes
20:54.25joevalle1field:)
20:55.11``Erikhttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-V-TweakEx11.png
20:55.15``Erikhttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-IV-Warp2.jpg
20:55.20``Erikhttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Image:Manual-Part-IV-CorneliusMap.jpg
20:55.23``Erikcornelius :D
20:56.21brlcadbrl-cad's mascot should be a moose
20:56.49``Erikget to modelin', boy
20:57.09brlcadi already have a scan of a moose's head, taken from ct scan data, but just the bones
20:57.46joevalle1fielddo you have a photo of a moose's outer you know
20:58.19joevalle1fieldbones and a photo should be a good start
20:58.40brlcadheh, http://www.dynamore.de/models/con_models_moose.php?frame=ok
20:59.24``Erikheh, the quality of models meatspace sim people use... heh... *smirk*
20:59.34brlcadjust what everyone needs.. an ls-dyna moose crash dummy model
20:59.46joevalle1fieldcute but not alot of mascot potential
21:00.51joevalle1fieldnow you're talking
21:15.05clock_brlcad: can you model boobs, ass and the rest of a woman with BRL-CAD?
21:16.17clock_brlcad: easily?
21:16.17IriX64http://irix64/spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
21:16.17brlcadclock_: only mathematically perfect ones :)
21:17.17brlcadeasily
21:17.18``Erikheh, wow, she's packin' perfect spheres!
21:17.18brlcadotherwise, it's import
21:17.18IriX64err http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
21:17.18clock_brlcad: now I see the power of CSG
21:17.18clock_A part of the woman could be modeled by subtracting a suitably positioned man
21:17.24bjorkBSDholy shit the room's getting crowded!
21:17.28clock_i. e. saves work when modelling both
21:17.47bjorkBSDyhwh?
21:18.03brlcadyhwh?
21:18.12``Erikhryaw
21:18.15``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/makehuman
21:18.52bjorkBSDah. i thought he was referring to his yahweh-ish powers to makehuman.
21:19.13clock_what shape are boobs?
21:19.18``Erikhttp://www.dedalo-3d.com/index.php
21:19.19clock_Paraboloid? Ellipsoid?
21:19.27bjorkBSDclock_, take a look at yours.
21:19.28``Erikyou've never seen any, before?
21:19.34``Eriks/,//
21:19.43bjorkBSDthe room was dimly lit.
21:19.44*** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net)
21:20.09clock_bjorkBSD: I don't have boobs, despite the fact I am attracted to men
21:20.19clock_bjorkBSD: and I am not a flat woman either
21:20.21bjorkBSDwhat do you have them?
21:20.26bjorkBSD*then.
21:20.31bjorkBSDand i thought you were a boy. n/m.
21:20.39clock_bjorkBSD: yes I am a boy
21:20.57IriX64boyo
21:21.08bjorkBSDwell, all mammals have breasts.
21:21.24IriX64nipples not breasts
21:21.36bjorkBSDthat's right.
21:21.42bjorkBSDso that should be easy to model.
21:21.44bjorkBSDa '.'.
21:21.49bjorkBSDstart from that and grow it :)
21:22.01IriX64:)
21:23.12IriX64reminds me of that .g file ``Erik ;)
21:24.35bjorkBSDclock are you modeling living things?
21:24.54clock_bjorkBSD: no
21:27.50brlcadhe's modeling cool network equipment
21:27.56bjorkBSDheheheh
21:28.11brlcadseriously, pretty nifty model
21:28.36brlcadgreat example of what can be done in a relatively short while
21:28.46bjorkBSDreally?  can we see?
21:29.30clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/ronja_video.php
21:29.59clock_http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
21:31.17bjorkBSDpretty damned cool, clock.
21:31.28``Erikwell... "breast" is a word that's been mutating, it used to be very gender neutral...
21:31.35deltazapsee, now you're just showing off that you can get things into autocad :P
21:31.41clock_bjorkBSD: thanks
21:31.50brlcadclock_: you had that initial scaffolding part of the model in like .. what? two weeks?
21:31.50bjorkBSDthat was before implants, right ``Erik? ;)
21:32.05brlcadof your spare time
21:32.07clock_brlcad: what is scaffolding?
21:32.18brlcadeverything but the shooter part
21:32.27clock_I don't know
21:32.37clock_the modeling was spread through longer time
21:32.37``Erik(so did a lot of male descriptors in english... "him" and "he" used to be fairly gender neutral)
21:32.58bjorkBSDvery cool.
21:33.37clock_brlcad: I did a lot of parts before that weren't part of the model
21:33.43clock_intermixed with parts of the model
21:34.56clock_Now I can test how many megaton TNT I need to bend that beam ;-)
21:35.33clock_``Erik: you can play a DVD which is in the drive of a friend who lives in the neighbourhood
21:36.23bjorkBSDclock_, have you been testing it?
21:36.23clock_As a hightech system it requires hightech components
21:36.41``Erikerm, at 10mbps? is that enough to push the mpeg4 data with enough left over for ccoping with drops ?
21:36.55clock_Smoke flues, magnifying glasses, cat litter substrate, bathroom caulking and an old toothbrush
21:36.57bjorkBSDi watch videos online over less.
21:37.02clock_bjorkBSD: yes
21:37.17clock_``Erik: there are no drops. This is not a WiFi
21:37.39``Erikit's optic, but if a bird flies through the path, or smoke particulates interfere, or ...
21:37.42bjorkBSDa powerful remote control huh?
21:37.52clock_``Erik: then the buffers catch it
21:38.08bjorkBSDif a bird flies through it's path, it blinks and emits an ear piercing shriek only birds can here :)
21:38.11clock_``Erik: smoke particulate don't interfere. the beam is 13cm thick
21:38.16``Erikit'd still need a resent, no?
21:38.21``Erikresend, even
21:38.31clock_it has a BER of 10^-9
21:38.34``ErikI mean, if a bird flies through, you lost bits...
21:38.40clock_so once 125 megabytes, you need one resend
21:38.52clock_but that is catched by TCP and the buffers
21:39.21``Erikright, and tcp hiccups over 10baseT are pretty nasty, I can't see optic being any better
21:39.51``Erikif you can outpush the stream, yeah, you can use big honkin' buffers (a second or two of display data might be enough), I spoze :)
21:39.57clock_``Erik: I didn't notice any hiccups. is your 10baseT full duplex?
21:40.07``Erikwhen I had it, yes
21:40.23``ErikI'm all 100baseT and 802.11b at home
21:40.23clock_this is like 10BaseT-FD
21:40.39bjorkBSDand is it tcp or something else clock_?
21:40.45clock_TCP
21:41.05clock_or whatever you put there - it behaves like a fibre optic segment of 10BaseT-FD
21:41.22clock_people use it always with TCP/IP
21:41.34``Eriktcp is a level 4, ronja is level 1...
21:41.45``Erik(and probably 2)
21:42.27clock_NE592 differential video amplifier
21:42.34clock_NE592 porn video amplifier
21:44.29brlcadheh
21:45.37clock_god save us from some child looking into the beam when porn is being transmitted
21:45.56clock_it would see porn, though not in a format that's possible to perceive
21:46.09clock_I wonder whether this counts as an indecent display to minors too
21:47.54clock_Primary school math:
21:48.20clock_An epilepsy patient gets a fit of 5 jerks a second when he sees 100Hz stobing light
21:48.35clock_Calculate how many jerks a second he does when he sees a 10,000,000 Hz strobing light
21:55.46bjorkBSD10khz? that's a hip hop dance.
21:56.39bjorkBSD10Mhz. hmmm. cardiac arrest follows.
22:01.38*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:03.02clock_http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/2005_Dime_Obv_Unc_P.png
22:03.02clock_Is it the face of god?
22:03.03clock_"In god we trust"
22:03.48deltazapno that's an old man that was outside the building the other day
22:04.53clock_Looks almost like BRL-CAD logo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/United_States_dollar_coin%2C_reverse.jpg
22:05.14clock_I guess "E PLURIBUS UNUM" must mean something like "one model consists of multiple subcomponents"
22:05.52deltazapr dime.r u dime_body.c u face.c
22:06.41clock_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LineartPresRev.png
22:07.04clock_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:19-08-06_0359.jpg
22:07.13clock_Now I know where the hairstyle on the coin is from :)
22:07.53bjorkBSDthe stone ages.
22:07.59bjorkBSDwhen metal was currency.
22:08.10bjorkBSDand stones were ... just that.
22:08.23clock_what is the currency now? eurodance?
22:08.51bjorkBSDit's inflationary
22:08.59bjorkBSDover time of course. hard to pin point.
22:09.23bjorkBSDand the gov't ALWAYS gets first dibs.
22:10.40clock_now the currency are credit cards with negastive balance
22:12.25bjorkBSDfunny, i was just reading a blog on improving one's credit score.
22:12.28bjorkBSDbut you're right.
22:13.37kwizartHello! (some quick help needed for help packaging brlcad for Fedora...)
22:13.54kwizartwhere can i have the sources code for jove ?
22:14.16kwizartThe compilation fails at jove contrib step...
22:14.42kwizartmake[4]: *** No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
22:15.03bjorkBSDwhich version, kwizart?
22:15.11kwizartlast (of brlcad
22:15.13kwizart)
22:15.17bjorkBSDcalled what?
22:15.23kwizart7.10
22:15.24kwizart:)
22:15.33bjorkBSDjust checking ;)
22:15.45kwizarti was waiting it ! :)
22:15.58deltazapbrlcad just said to --disable-jove since it isn't required
22:16.45kwizartwell i can do that but packaging on official repository may need to get all option that can work buindin !
22:16.47deltazap15:27 <@brlcad> jove has been deprecated for a decade
22:17.14kwizartwell that may solve things...
22:17.48kwizartThe main problem i have is all tcl/tk iwigets from the system aren't found...
22:18.13kwizartbut i suppose theses packages to be malformed...
22:20.52IriX64define.... malformed
22:21.12kwizartwell packaging bugs !
22:22.03IriX64does it not detect itcl or what
22:22.58kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/433633
22:23.47kwizartonly tkImg libregex jove arent' avaible on the system...
22:24.17kwizartothers are present (with devel package) but not found
22:24.42kwizartfor itcl : itcl-3.3-0.7.RC1.fc6
22:25.16IriX64have you tried a compile, im not sure the summary screen prints out everything or not
22:26.30kwizartyes i will give another try ( with   --disable-jove-build \ ) and i will upload build.log if you want to see...
22:27.41IriX64ill look
22:30.57kwizartIriX64, http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log
22:31.16kwizartthis is the build.log before --disable-jove-build ...
22:33.37``Erik"in god wet rust"?
22:43.59brlcadkwizart: i'll help you in a sec if you need it :)
22:44.11kwizartbrlcad, thx
22:44.28kwizart(currently rebuilding )
23:03.50kwizartupdating log it fail on ../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
23:05.46brlcadeep
23:06.35brlcadthat doesn't make sense
23:06.45brlcadwhat is it trying to link?
23:06.53brlcadand what's the link line look like?
23:07.54kwizartyou can see here: http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log (at the end of the log!)
23:08.22``Erikheh, I'd hope it's at the end, errors generally stop the build...
23:08.47``Erikhum, slow site
23:09.46``Erikhum, all the warning flags lit up
23:11.45``Erikhrm, it's not taking Xi for some reason
23:12.02kwizart``Erik, Xi ?
23:12.44``Erikum, libXi.so, X intrinsics
23:13.29``Eriktheoretically, there should be a -lXi on the link line
23:13.35deltazapwoop woop
23:14.23kwizart``Erik, ok added to BuildRequires
23:15.35deltazapwheee Trace/BPT trap
23:53.33deltazapi hope i'm not the only one running in to the bpt trap
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070411

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070411

00:03.43``Erikhow when where what huh?
00:05.42deltazap<PROTECTED>
00:05.42deltazap<PROTECTED>
00:05.46deltazapmake[2]: *** [pkgIndex.tcl] Trace/BPT trap
00:05.46deltazapmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
00:05.46deltazapmake: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
00:05.59brlcaddeltazap: what version os x is this?
00:06.01``Erikso a hackintosh
00:06.07deltazaplatest
00:06.20brlcadit's trying to run btclsh if I had to guess
00:06.29deltazap10.4.9
00:06.38brlcadhrm, ppc or intel?
00:06.42deltazapppc
00:06.56brlcaddo you have your own autotools installed?
00:07.00``Erik(do I need to crank up one of my g4 hackintops?)
00:07.04brlcador something like fink in your path?
00:07.22deltazapmacports, that's it
00:07.33brlcad./autogen --version reports what?
00:07.37brlcader, ./autogen.sh
00:08.43deltazapFound GNU Autoconf version 2.59
00:08.43deltazapFound GNU Automake version 1.6.3
00:08.53deltazapthen a warning about libtoolize
00:09.06deltazapand GNU Libtool 1.5
00:10.19``Erikwhat's the warning?
00:12.08deltazaplibtoolize does not appear to be available.  blah blah  glibtoolize was found which means you may have a non-standard or incomplete GNU Autotools install
00:12.14brlcadyeah, that's fine
00:12.33``Erikjust means you're using hte apple supplied libtool instead of one in macports :/
00:13.11deltazapisn't that how it should be?
00:13.16brlcadwhich "should" be a good thing
00:13.21brlcadas the latter is untested
00:13.24``Erik*shrug* I use the macports one, brlcad uses the apple one I think
00:13.28brlcadthough either "should" work too
00:13.44``Erikbut I MOSTLY use fbsd, the mac is just a pretty xserver
00:14.14``Erikso'z my mac setup is... mimicking fbsd
00:14.24kwizartupdated build log http://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/6/testing/brlcad/build.log Backtrace...
00:16.17brlcadewwww
00:17.03kwizartalso a libtool problem (i'm running fc6 on x86_64)
00:17.06kwizart?
00:17.22brlcadno
00:17.56brlcadbtclsh is crashing on your system inside tclcad_auto_path() inside bu_brlcad_data() inside snprintf() ...
00:23.16brlcadit's possibly related to a bug in Tcl 8.5, there were a couple that we had to directly patch
00:24.02kwizartmy system bundle tcl 8.6 (but not found) the system version can be forced ?
00:24.21kwizartDoes this will help ?
00:26.14brlcader, que?
00:26.23brlcadwhere you get 8.6 from?
00:27.10brlcadall the external deps can be forced
00:27.16kwizartoups no it was 8.4 sorry!
00:29.41brlcadyeah, that won't work so well
00:29.41kwizartcan i uses 8.4 ? or it won't be enought ?
00:29.41brlcadthe crash itself doesn't make sense though
00:29.41brlcadunless the stack has been stomped on before we get to tclcad_auto_path() .. which is entirely possible and would be a tcl 8.5 bug
00:30.37brlcaddeltazap: for you, there's a relatively simple workaround
00:31.16brlcadgo to src/other and each src/lib* dir and run sudo make install
00:31.47brlcadthen you should be able to (re)complete make
00:34.50deltazapalright, i'll have to try that here in a bit
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01:35.01deltazapbrlcad: didn't work
01:43.32brlcaddeltazap: erm.. shouldn't be exactly the same?
01:43.49deltazapwell, yes, ssame BPT trap
01:45.27brlcadyet you now have installed all the libs?
01:45.48deltazapyup, went to each directory and did the make install
01:46.12deltazapeach lib* directory, that is
01:46.25IriX64deltazap do a make clean first then make and then make install
01:47.04deltazapafter the installation of the libs?
01:47.13brlcadno no
01:47.16brlcaddon't do that
01:47.16IriX64for the installation of the libs
01:47.19``Erik"every time you masturbate, god kills a kitten"
01:47.29IriX64whatd i say?
01:47.36brlcaddeltazap: what's the error now?
01:47.56brlcadpastebin from the last libtool line on if you would
01:55.40deltazapbah, pastebin is erroring for me
01:58.43deltazapalright, i'm going to retry this
01:59.52brlcad~pastebin
01:59.55iboti heard pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
02:00.01brlcaduse one of the others that work ;)
02:00.16deltazapoh, didn't know that there were others
02:05.57deltazapanyways, i did a make clean and now am making from the src/other and then each lib* directory
02:11.20brlcadthe important trick is to install the libs before running btclsh
02:11.43brlcadalternatively, if you have a lot of disk space, you can just add --disable-shared to the configure line and build everything static
02:19.08deltazapsince i'm not too familiar with build systems, any reason it's building it in that order and causing that error?
02:24.44IriX64has to be built in the order people submitted the code :P
02:30.03brlcaddeltazap: that's a mac-specific build/libtool issue -- libtool fails to locate the (uninstalled) libraries that the binary it's trying to run is using
02:30.19brlcadin this case src/bwish/btclsh is the binary it's trying to run
02:30.26brlcadif you run it directly, you should see the error
02:30.56brlcadif you install those libraries before running the binary, it should work
02:31.46deltazapok, i misunderstood the first time around
03:41.36deltazaphttp://pastebin.ca/434005 - same song and dance
03:42.04deltazapthis time, i had done the make installs for all of the libs and then ran make
03:45.47IriX64Making all in tclscripts
03:45.50IriX64so?
03:46.55deltazapfails with the same error
03:47.12IriX64*what error thgats all thats posted.
03:47.39deltazapit's at the bottom of the pastebin link
03:48.59IriX64_TkStatePrintProc   <--- it cant find that symbol in your tcl lib
03:49.24IriX64thats a function
03:49.59deltazapit should be he tcl library bundled with the source
03:50.25IriX64try your system tcl use --without-tcl
03:51.02deltazap"i have a bad feeling about this..."
03:51.22IriX64configure will tell you if it cant find a system tcl/tk
03:52.49IriX64--without-tk should be used too tho ... just to stay compatible rev wise
03:53.22deltazapshould i flag anything else?
03:57.37deltazapwell, configure didn't say anything, just says that it's going to build tcl and tk
03:59.27IriX64must not have a system tcl lib then?
04:00.22deltazapguess not
04:05.49IriX64you could try hunting for that function
04:06.07IriX64leave the _ off
04:06.13IriX64the search string
07:28.28*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875663.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:09.44*** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@did75-14-82-236-19-114.fbx.proxad.net)
10:32.48CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: fmax was removed from librt/g_brep.cpp
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12:26.27kwizarthello!
12:26.40kwizarti'm searching why system tcl aren't found!
12:26.52kwizartbuiding brlcad 7.10.0
12:31.53clock_How can I enter a slanted cylinder?
12:32.18clock_i. e. a cylinder whose circular faces were moved in a shearing fashion
12:32.43clock_I would just like to enter the circular faces
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13:18.30brlcadkwizart: requires tcl 8.5+
13:18.55brlcadclock_: that's a tgc
13:19.09brlcadtruncated general cone
13:19.40kwizartwell that's what i have in devel...
13:20.03kwizart(Fedora 7
13:20.37brlcadthe config.log script should say why then
13:20.48kwizartok
13:27.01clock_mged: ERROR: NULL union tree pointer, file db5_comb.c, line 106
13:27.10clock_is that an indication of bug in mged?
13:27.18clock_After I imported a (probably invalid) ascii database
13:27.59kwizartbrlcad, does the configure script is supposed to search for .la file ? (we don't bundled them prefering pkgconfig but tcl uses an old sh %{_libdir}/tclConfig.sh script to help to find it's configuration...)
13:28.20kwizartpastbin the config.log (look a little empty)
13:29.53kwizarthttp://www.pastebin.ca/434546
13:30.06brlcadclock_: it's "bad behavior", and a borderline bug -- if you can post the inputs and it's reproducible, it would be worth seeing
13:30.46brlcadin general, bad input readily results in bad behavior when it comes to mged :)
13:30.49kwizartac_cv_env_CPPFLAGS_value='-I/usr/local/include ' is bad it should be /usr/include but most header are found
13:31.06clock_brlcad: I want to machine generate a combination in ascii database
13:31.17clock_do the newlines have a different meaning than spaces?
13:31.37brlcadkwizart: /usr/include is a default search path, /usr/local/include is just an additional
13:31.45clock_put {turn.c} comb region no tree {u {l cyl.s {1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1}}  {u {l cyl.s {0.309016994375 0.951056516295 0 0 -0.951056516295 ...
13:31.48clock_is that wrong?
13:32.30kwizartok*
13:32.31brlcadkwizart: something else is wrong there.. error: /bin/sh misc/config.sub /usr/share/config.site failed
13:34.01kwizarthum i've try gnu make and failling a BuildRequires : gnustep-make
13:34.17kwizartdoes it will help to have a gnu make ?
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13:43.51brlcadkwizart: shouldn't .. though I've only tested gnu and bsd make
13:54.27``Erikbsd make gets pukey when building out of dir
14:13.31``Eriktazering that gnome
16:06.34clock_brlcad: I made a thread from stacked sheared cylinders
16:08.50``Erikswank
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18:04.27deltazapit built it built!
18:05.20deltazapbut now make benchmark and make test fails! :D
18:08.45brlcadclock_: picture?
18:08.54brlcaddeltazap: eep :)
18:09.30deltazapjust for the fun of it, i ran automake.sh first, then configure with almost-everything and optimize on and jove disabled
18:11.19deltazapit compiled without the bpt trap error, but now test and benchmark fail
18:11.48clock_brlcad: the only picture I had was in the framebuffer of my graphics card
18:16.07clock_OVERLAPb: depth 0.00000mm\
18:16.18clock_If the depth is 0.00000mm, isn't that called no overlap?
18:19.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added attr and make_name commands. Other minor mods.
18:20.45clock_I wonder whether the thread code will not be able to be included because it's under GPL, because I don't give a signed paper of some kind, because noone has time to include it or because it's not polished enough or because it's not of imporance for BRL-CAD ;-)
18:22.19brlcadif it'd be any, it'd be because of the first reason
18:22.27clock_;-)
18:22.33clock_or all combined together ;-)
18:22.39brlcadand that's just a precision printing problem on the overlap.. it must be really tiny
18:22.54clock_what is precision printing?
18:23.14clock_you mean in the ASCII database?
18:23.16brlcadnot having time is a function of perceived importance/impact
18:23.16brlcadsort of the same thing
18:23.33brlcadand nobody has been asked to sign anything
18:23.57clock_you said I would have to sign a paper saying that I give off the rights to BRL, didn't you?
18:24.03brlcadi mean telling you that the overlap is 0.00000mm thick is a precision printing issue
18:24.18clock_aha so the overlap actually exists?
18:24.28brlcadyep, it's just < 0.00000mm
18:24.35clock_well I can give you the database which prints the overlap so you can see if there is an overlap or not
18:24.38brlcaddigit-wise
18:24.49clock_in couple of hours when it compiles and rsyncs
18:24.52brlcadlike 0.000001mm
18:26.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Added an entry for dm_drawDataAxes
18:28.50clock_Kafka-esque GPL vs. LGPL :)
18:29.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Display.tcl: Added a units method.
18:31.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl: Added a drawDataAxes method. Also set the default display type to wgl.
18:32.21clock_brlcad: I want to see the farse when GPLv3 comes out
18:32.55brlcadfarse?
18:33.44clock_Oh sorry, a farce
18:33.52CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/QuadDisplay.tcl: Update the units command to return the current units if args is an empty string.
18:34.03clock_A farce is a comedy written for the stage, or a film, which aims to entertain the audience by means of unlikely and extravagant-yet often possible-situations, disguise and mistaken identity, verbal humour of varying degrees of sophistication, which may include puns and sexual innuendo, and a fast-paced plot whose speed usually increases even further towards the end of the play, often involving an elaborate chase scene. Broad physical humour,
18:34.40deltazapwhat would cause the test files not to be created?
18:34.57brlcaddeltazap: try running:  src/rt/rt
18:36.04clock_Funny to see how the edge detection algorithm in rtedge reacts to the screw with varying degrees of mental breakdown, depending on the angle of view :)
18:40.08clock_Saying that multiprocessor systems are faster is like sending three family cars to Formula One and claiming we are going to get the 1st place
18:42.28deltazapbrlcad: funny, it responds and gives a version, but completely has the same BPT trap error i've been getting
18:45.18CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/View.tcl: Mods to help keep thing in sync wrt units.
18:45.31brlcaddeltazap: pastebin please
18:46.49CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: Set default backColor to yellow.
18:49.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm_obj.c axes.c): Added support for the drawDataAxes command.
18:51.54deltazapbrlcad: http://pastebin.ca/435035
18:52.17deltazapi had done a make install, so that's why i'm running it from /usr/brlcad/bin
18:52.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/conv/stl-g.c: Mods to open input file in untranslated/binary mode on windows.
18:54.56CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: Added declaration for dmo_drawDataAxes_cmd().
18:56.44CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/archer/Archer_Documentation.chm: Minor tweaks.
19:00.44``Erikeeks, bob's at it again
19:00.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/doc/archer_ack.txt: Made a few minor corrections.
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19:53.25clock_brlcad: the thread: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ at the bottom of the page
20:00.55clock_or tread?
20:01.58brlcadthread
20:02.01brlcadnifty
20:02.28brlcadwould be cooler as a sharp thread
20:03.14brlcadthink you can get that with the intersection of an offset
20:04.07clock_what does intersection of an offset mean?
20:04.22clock_for an intersection you need two things, only one is not enough
20:04.38clock_and offset is not a geometrical shape, but an abstract category. You cannot intersect with an offset.
20:11.08``Erikhrmmmmmm, no images on that page use the height and width attributes? <IMG WIDTH=512 HEIGHT=512 SRC="neatostuff.png"> ?
20:17.27IriX64whats the lowest version if tcl tahat brl-cad supports please?
20:19.49``Erik8.8a1
20:20.10IriX64errr ok :)
20:20.33``ErikO:-)
20:20.47IriX64been there done that am quite insane now ;)
20:21.36``Erikwe don't test against different tcl versions, so I can't give you an answer.... it works with 8.5a5 (that's what's included), it MIGHT work ok with 8.4, in theory it SHOULD work with 8.0, but you know the saying...
20:21.49``Erikthe difference between practice and theory is much greater in practice than in theory
20:21.51*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
20:23.19IriX64or rather have the souvenire hat with my name on it :)
20:23.19IriX64got it thanks man
20:23.21``Erikunless you happen to be both a tcl and automake guru, I'd strongly recommend enabling the build of the included tcl.
20:23.21``Erik(and if it breaks, we're just going to tell you to use the included tcl, ...)
20:32.41IriX64proper notes scribbled ``Erik :)
20:35.25``Erikmeeeehhhhhhh, gruntwork
20:39.42IriX64some guy gave me this and said i should be able to detect what version of tcl is being used by the system, but im getting tcl returned error, should this work, bearing in mind im just a novice at tcl   http://www.pastebin.ca/435188
20:42.18``Erikseems like an awfully silly and error prone way to examine things O.o
20:42.38IriX64heh wadda i know :)
20:45.21``Eriktell ya what
20:45.23``Erikstart mged
20:45.37``Erikin the command window, type in "info tclversion" and hit the big button on the right
20:45.45``Erikit prints the version right there of what it's omfg using
20:45.53``Erikor run tclsh and do thesame
20:46.58IriX648.4 but thats the old mged
20:47.13IriX64still futzing around with 7-10
20:47.38IriX64suppose i should build it just to say i did ;)
20:48.15IriX64was more liking to working on this tcl thingy though
20:49.11``Erikwell, ok, if it's build time, do this
20:49.20``Erikgrep '^TCL ' Makefile
20:49.23IriX64what do i care if they dont have some sort of tcl they're on their own im not gonna supply one for them
20:49.33``Erikmine says: TCL = -L${top_builddir}/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5  -lm
20:52.21IriX64mine says 8.4
20:52.33IriX64thanks for the help ``Erik
20:55.39``Eriknp
21:03.35IriX64error prone? mmm does that involve horizontal :)
21:05.19IriX64errands to run back l8r
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23:05.07IriX64blankety blank..cflags have changed since last run ... of course, i changed them... why not let me know up front stead of at the end :)
23:05.14louipchurrah
23:05.24IriX64?
23:05.47b0efhas any toolkit been decided on for the new interface?
23:05.51IriX64new connection? or just fixed :)
23:06.28louipcb0ef: I'm curious about that too :D
23:06.59IriX64unicos i'm told :)
23:08.25louipcunicos?
23:08.29louipcnever heard of it
23:08.43IriX64cray schtuff
23:09.03IriX64btw welcome back
23:09.26louipcwhy would they use cray stuff?
23:09.28louipchah thanks
23:09.40louipcI'm only booted in a LiveCD
23:09.49louipcmy disk crashed and I lost my bootloader
23:10.01IriX64whoa
23:10.11louipcand for some reason the bootloader on my second disk isn't doing anything at all
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070412

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070412

00:23.27IriX64``Erik is windereze gl32 part of every windows system? I can't find any of my kids who have been playing around with it
00:26.39IriX64which is also the reason btw that i run windows base
00:29.10IriX64you guys can consider me a test bed, if it succeds here it should be fine everywhere but if it screws up here blame it on my stuff :)
00:31.09IriX64heh opennurbs going by :)
00:40.35IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
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03:15.44IriX64now why on earth does my system do that? meaning i set with-tk and with-tcl and tkconfigure can't find tclsh
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04:12.58deltazap*sigh*
04:21.51brlcaddeltazap: sorry for the frustration.. competiting deadlines taking up attention today
04:23.30deltazapthat's not a problem
04:23.37brlcadb0ef: no, it's intentionally designed with a front-end and back-end so that there could be a gui written in whatever flavor people prefer
04:24.15deltazapi found out that running ./autogen.sh will clear up the error with the BPT trap, but then it still persists in the programs themselves
04:25.09brlcadprincipal approach that I'm most expecting/hopeful to work out best is to go with one of the 3D render engines like ogre or irrlicht for front-end graphics management and an opengl-based gui toolkit
04:25.47brlcaddeltazap: hmmm.. good to know -- problem with the libtool that is in the source tarball
04:26.18brlcaddeltazap: which os again?
04:26.25deltazapOS X
04:26.41deltazapthe latest, 10.4.9
04:27.30brlcaddid you try static build?
04:27.35deltazapno, not yet
04:27.39brlcad--disable-shared
04:27.48brlcadthat "should" also fix the problem
04:27.53brlcadjust uses a lot of disk
04:28.21deltazaphow much is a lot?
04:28.32brlcaddon't recall the final installed amount
04:28.40brlcadcouple hundred MB iirc
04:28.53brlcadit'll need like 2GB to compile, though
04:29.14brlcadiirc
04:33.18deltazapok, i'll try it tonight
04:34.55IriX64brlcad here 7.8.4 took just over a gig
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13:00.18CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: The Tcl path changed and memset.c is no longer with us.
13:08.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbn/libbn.vcproj: The Tcl path changed. Also, asize.c and number.c have been removed.
13:53.10``Erikhehehe "I'd like to see Emacs, the microbot, though... It makes toast, does taxes and raises your children, but unfortunately it has the size and weight of a phone book, draws a kilowatt of power and the wheels don't quite reach the ground."
14:07.43deltazapprotip: don't do --enable-all --enable-optimize with --disable-cache, you'll wake up with 3 gigs missing and gcc wanting more :P
14:27.29``Erikhrm, but 3 gigs is, like, nothing
14:27.59deltazapnot on my laptop, where i keep it quite full
14:28.19deltazapand my powermac isn't going to fare much better since i keep all of my photography on it
14:29.34``Erikheh
14:35.53``Erik$ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep -v blocks | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | sed 's/$/ TB/'
14:35.53``Erik12.20917387586086988449 TB
14:37.09``Erikoh, woops
14:37.27``Erik$ df -k | awk '{print $2}' | grep -v blocks | xargs | sed 's/ /+/g;s,.*,(&)/(1024*1024*1024),' | bc -l | sed 's/$/ TB/'
14:37.27``Erik17.05380797106772661209 TB
14:37.37``Erikone of my raids wasn't mounted, heh
17:22.35``Erikoh wow, a bug report for some of my software... on a cbm a4000 (604e amiga from '92) running amigaOS O.o
17:23.58archivistIve noted a few nuts running old stuff in #classiccmp
17:26.39``Erikwell, yeah, nothing wrong with running old hw... but I'm kinda boggled that someone got my software to work there... it was very much designed for *nix, has warts on osX (but kinda runs from the command line), apparently runs from the command line in amigaOS (but not as a callable sub-program from this "yam" thing, which I think is a mail client)
17:28.18archivistthey pasted this link today http://www.sentex.net/%7Emwandel/tech/printer.html
17:29.27clock_archivist: I have a 1-pin dot matrix printer at home, not home built but factory built
17:30.53``Erikheh
17:31.08``Erikreading that whole thing, I kept going "why not just make it a plotter", then saw the lnk at the end :D
17:33.18archivistbut then in the old days I fitted S100 bus to a commodore pet
18:03.23IriX64is it *supposed to find both opengl and X ?
18:05.22IriX64tried --without-opengl, still finds it
18:09.16IriX64s100 bus I know, s100 on a commodore, I don't know :)
18:10.38IriX64:)
18:11.11IriX64this should work, configure claims it's sane :)
18:14.00IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/436737        <---- now what? :)
18:15.31IriX64don't worry bout tcl.... told you my build system is,err,well....unique :)
18:16.27IriX64frame buffer came up
18:19.15IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
18:21.38IriX64bwahaha it rt'ed havoc
18:24.36IriX64heh same url :)
18:26.37brlcadIriX64: remember that rule about posting more than five lines if nobody else is talking?
18:26.47brlcadit never went away
18:26.47IriX64noted
18:27.10brlcadthx
18:27.11IriX64when can i talk?
18:27.21brlcadpace yourself
18:27.39brlcadwhen someone else responds
18:27.48brlcaddeltazap: heh, eep :)
18:27.50IriX64now i know... ty
18:27.53brlcadonly 3GB?
18:28.06brlcaddeltazap: was that with --disable-shared?
18:28.20deltazaplast night, yeah
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18:58.24dlican I show sectional view in brlcad?
19:14.27brlcaddli: you mean split views?
19:15.34brlcadif so, on menu Modes -> Multipane
19:20.48dlibrlcad, no, I mean to show sectional, cutting part of along a plane
19:20.54dlicutting part off
19:26.52brlcadah, not automatic
19:27.16brlcadyou can create/orient an arb and subtract it
19:27.31brlcadarb or halfspace
19:28.06dlibrlcad, oh, that's not bad
19:35.30brlcadallows you to create new top-level objects with various cutaway views too
19:39.50dlibrlcad, can I write text labels in brlcad?
19:40.15dlibrlcad, or I have to use an image tool?
19:41.40brlcaddli: alas, not really, at least not easily and/or not for more than the wireframe
19:41.56brlcadannotations have long been on our todo and wish lists
19:43.13dlibrlcad, add dimension, drafting also, thanks
19:44.00brlcadhehe
19:44.07brlcadyup
19:44.18brlcaddimensioning is related to parametrics
19:45.32brlcadIriX64: nice mug :)
19:47.25IriX64heh you designed it :)
19:50.58clock_IriX64: thanks
19:51.11clock_dli: sectional view can be seen at http://ronja.twibright.com/3d
19:51.15IriX64welced
19:51.30brlcadIriX64: you should try modeling that moose as a project.. that would be awesome
19:52.34IriX64remeber feb 21's is an albumn too :)
19:54.40*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:27.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/basename.c: Needs to include bu.h
20:29.35deltazapclock_: what did you use to get the perspectives of the models?
20:34.04clock_deltazap: fixed values
20:34.39deltazapstraight from brlcad?
20:35.08clock_deltazap: no I selected myself 5 fixed values of view
20:35.47deltazapand it came out looking like that?
20:36.31*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
20:36.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
20:36.32clock_deltazap: yes
20:36.54deltazapwow
20:36.56deltazapi mean
20:36.57deltazapwow
20:41.03brlcadyay, finally fixed that age-old mged annoyance where the cursor gets in front of the prompt
20:41.26``Erikw00t
20:41.30deltazap:D
20:41.50brlcadthat little bitch was mildly tricky to track down
20:42.08clock_brlcad: BRL-CAD now entering into the new century?
20:42.11deltazapuh oh, the machine that i was running my static compile on is no longer online
20:42.18brlcadclock_: welcome to 1990 ;)
20:42.39clock_croydon stapleford
20:42.57brlcadi should have gone home 3 hours ago, but I got to piddling and ended up debugging
20:44.42brlcaddeltazap: heh, oops
20:45.24deltazapyeah, it's strange...i hope that we just had a power failure and that it just stayed off
20:45.42brlcador you filled up the disk, and it can't do anything
20:45.45deltazaphahah
20:46.03``Erikshould still pong under icmp lovin'
20:46.26``Erikif it's a filled disk..
20:46.35deltazapit had just finished the configure stage and was waiting for me to start make
20:47.01deltazapor, if i'm really lucky, it just got knocked off wireless
20:47.21brlcador really unlucky, it just got stolen
20:47.43deltazaphah, i don't know if anyone wants a dual 500mhz powermac
20:47.48IriX64repossed :)
20:48.02IriX64err repossesed too
20:48.05deltazapor if anyone could carry the 21" Studio Display CRT very far
20:48.14IriX64whatever sheesh :)
21:04.26``Erikheh, a buddy of mine was throwing away like a 486 a long time ago
21:04.42``Erikhe decided he'd have a little fun, so he poured the machine full of cement, let it dry
21:04.53``Erikleft it on his patio, next morning he found it in the neighbors ditch
21:05.16brlcadheh
21:07.01deltazapwow, haha
21:09.53deltazapwait, i just thought about something...
21:10.14deltazapif i'm a mac...shouldn't i leave archer out of my build? :P
21:17.22brlcadarcher is actually cross-platform
21:17.36brlcadwe've just not made a binary for any platform other than windows yet
21:18.14brlcadunless you buy a linux distro of an older version from survice or something
21:18.37brlcadit should compile .. but it's not going to work at run-time yet on the mac without some build system changes
21:18.42brlcadit's all build system foo
21:19.54deltazapif i disable it in the configure stage, then i won't have to wait as long for a compile to fail :)
21:20.21brlcad:)
21:21.15brlcadcept that there's not an option to disable archer, as it does/should compile everywhere
21:21.22deltazapoh ok
21:21.26brlcadactually archer isn't technically compiled
21:21.37brlcadit's a tcl scripted wrapper
21:27.32deltazaphmm
21:27.33deltazapinteresting
21:34.20bjorkBSDyeah that tcl's something isn't she?
21:54.47IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/437130    what's wrong with my system here itclibs are in /usr/brlcad-7.10.0/lib
21:56.01IriX64is it the fact that i specified --prefix
22:07.09IriX64even with path set i get that
22:12.20``Erikarcher seemed to work on a fbsd machine, I didn't really dig into it, though
22:25.37IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/437185  on the brifgt side :)
22:25.37IriX64bright too
23:15.38IriX64archer works on a windows box too ``Erik :)
23:17.55``Erikit was designed and built for/on windows... so, uh, that'd be expected
23:22.51IriX64``Erik uh yeah, check it http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
23:31.32IriX64:)
23:47.05*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:53.59IriX64man.... the farking version number is buggered it installs then as 3.3 rename to 3.2 and the error goes away
23:54.10IriX64at least on my wacky system
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070413

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070413

00:41.14IriX64checkit :)
00:47.56IriX64checkit again, that m35 is courtesy my weird little system .
00:58.27IriX64rtedge is on the blog, ill vanish for a while now :)
01:01.00IriX64don't get to excited though you still require an X-server
01:08.05*** join/#brlcad cad19 (n=dd048c55@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:07.42IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/437495    <--- is that compilation number your doing? or do i have a mite here?
02:10.58poolioIriX64: is it svn?
02:11.04poolioor cvs or whatnot
02:11.14IriX64source tarball
02:11.34poolioIn that case it sounds like something on their end. if they're using some sort of revision system it should keep track of the compiling similar to the Linux kernel
02:11.58IriX64the rest make sens 4 compilations
02:12.04IriX64sense too
02:25.19IriX64poolio see  -----> http://www.pastebin.ca/437519
02:28.36poolioso the raytracer has had a lot of work ;)
02:29.08IriX64nothing that would affect you, i have strangebrew for a system ;)
02:30.20IriX64sigh im so dense poolio you're right of course :)
02:31.15poolioI'm probably not right, and I've no clue as to your density... :P
02:31.26IriX64brick :)
02:31.35IriX64err maybe post :)
02:31.41pooliothat's not all that dense.
02:31.51IriX64:)
03:10.30IriX64not that dense eh? see what I did to myself here poolio  ---> http://www.pastebin.ca/437587
03:16.53pooliomeh. windows makes everything look ugly. i'm off to sleep, gnite.
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09:21.18*** part/#brlcad cad81 (n=cab45306@bz.bzflag.bz)
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15:21.52CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS README configure.ac include/config_win.h): bump to 7.10.1
15:45.10*** join/#brlcad rafa_ (n=rafa@200.180.169.105)
15:45.46rafa_i install brlcad in ubuntu
15:45.50rafa_and now?
15:45.55rafa_how start?
15:50.22rafa_please
15:51.38clock_rafa_: download http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja.g
15:51.41clock_rafa_: run mged ronja.g
15:51.48clock_type B ronja
15:51.56clock_then go to File -> Raytrace and raytrace it
15:52.56rafa_?
15:53.33clock_.
15:53.33*** join/#brlcad sisplau (n=gn-eleaz@163.Red-81-37-105.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
15:53.34rafa_run in terminal
15:53.35rafa_$ meged?
15:54.22sisplauhi
15:54.28rafa_hi
15:54.40sisplauspanish?
15:54.48rafa_yes
15:54.51sisplauhola
15:54.52rafa_como vaz
15:54.56rafa_hola
15:54.59sisplauhe instalado este programa
15:55.02sisplaupero no se ejecutarlo
15:55.31sisplauno crea icono
15:55.44sisplauy no se que comando debo poner en la consola
15:56.00rafa_amigo joi tambem
15:56.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl:
15:56.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: Finally isolated the problem where certain operations in the mged command window
15:56.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: will result in the input prompt getting in front of 'mged>' prompt. the problem
15:56.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: turns out to be various default scrolling text widget bindings that modify the
15:56.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: cursor input position. there's a whole list of such bindings, but without
15:56.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: testing this update just lists them and overrides the two that were obvious
15:56.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: (page up/down).
15:56.41rafa_how start brlcad?
15:56.45clock_brlcad: the website is confusiong. According to "latest news", the latest version is 7.8.0 which is long time not true
15:56.49clock_rafa_: mged
15:56.54rafa_no
15:57.26rafa_terminal returns:
15:57.29rafa_comand not found
15:57.33sisplauhttp://www.brlcad.org/overview.html <- overview
15:58.03rafa_in my sisten no mged
15:58.12sisplausystem
15:58.23rafa_i install package off SourceForge
15:58.37clock_sisters of mercy
15:58.41rafa_brlcad-7.8.4.deb
15:59.10rafa_sistem of mercy?
15:59.20rafa_sister
15:59.21rafa_?
15:59.24rafa_watt
15:59.28``Erikyou probably have to add a special path
15:59.41``Eriklike, if you're using bash, export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
16:00.00sisplauhow I can run the program?
16:00.05``Erikthen you can do something like "mged /usr/brlcad/share/7.10.0/db/moss.g"
16:00.33rafa_brlcad as instaled in my sistem  in :
16:00.42rafa_/usr/brlcad
16:01.03``Erikok, then you'll have a /usr/brlcad/bin directory with something around 400ish programs... the one you probably want first is mged
16:01.29rafa_mged no in bin
16:01.37rafa_and no in my systen
16:01.47``Erikum, then ya don't have BRL-CAD installed? :)
16:02.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS BUGS):
16:02.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: Finally isolated the problem where certain operations in the mged command window
16:02.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: will result in the input prompt getting in front of 'mged>' prompt. the problem
16:02.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: turns out to be various default scrolling text widget bindings that modify the
16:02.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: cursor input position, including page up/down. fix is simple, just do the same
16:02.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: binding operation but don't move the cursor.
16:02.34rafa_i intaled package off sourceforge
16:02.34rafa_package.deb
16:02.34rafa_brlcad-7.8.4.deb
16:02.54clock_rafa_: then the .deb package is probably crap
16:02.54sisplau$ /usr/brlcad/bin/mged  works
16:03.10clock_rafa_: uninstall it and install the BRL-CAD from sources
16:03.10sisplaurafa_ abres terminal y pones ~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
16:03.17clock_rafa_: and complain to the Debian developers that they made crap
16:03.28``Erikyou should have /usr/brlcad/bin in your path before running mged
16:03.30rafa_amigo sisplau:
16:03.38rafa_no has este diretorio
16:03.43``Erikmged will attempt to run binaries to do things, and those need to be in the path
16:03.50sisplaurafa_ abres terminal y pones /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
16:04.03clock_``Erik: Debian has to produce a .deb file that works after being installed
16:04.13``Erikno shit, clock? :D
16:04.44clock_A typical example when an unauthorized person between the user and the developer tries to tamper with a readily packaged technology
16:04.54rafa_please one moment
16:04.59clock_In this cause a Debian developer tampered
16:05.01``Erikof course, debian may have chosen another place to put it... /usr/brlcad is just the default... my fbsd packages put it in /usr/local/brlcad with an mged.sh in /usr/local/bin that pedro put together
16:07.33clock_``Erik: then the package after installing has to change the system PATH and make sure it's in effect
16:07.33clock_``Erik: just those Debian incompetents didn't do their homework properly
16:07.33``Erikheh, :) *pets fbsd*
16:07.33rafa_sorry meged found in my system
16:07.34rafa_:)
16:07.34rafa_but terminal returns it:
16:07.34clock_rafa_: but you don't want meged but mged
16:07.34docelicdebian developer "tampered" to make the package adhere to filesystem policy
16:07.34rafa_<PROTECTED>
16:07.34clock_but it stopped adhering to the functionality policy ;-)
16:07.34clock_rafa_: Debian has the libraries screwed up
16:07.34sisplaurafa_ ubuntu?
16:07.34clock_rafa_: tell them they should fix it
16:07.34rafa_i use ubuntu
16:07.35``Erikcompiling from source should "just work"
16:07.42clock_rafa_: ubuntu is a double layer of tampering
16:07.43clock_first the Debian incompetents tamper and then the Ubuntu ones
16:07.49``Erikjust have to wait the 10 minutes for a compile and install :)
16:07.53clock_a resul - program which doesn't even link, let alone run
16:08.01rafa_ok
16:08.05``Erikuse the source, luke!
16:08.05``Erik:D
16:08.18rafa_i download sourc
16:08.21sisplaui use ubuntu and it works
16:08.27clock_rafa_: don't use unauthorized products of third parties and use the official product - BRL-CAD sources
16:08.37rafa_ok
16:08.44rafa_amigo sisplau
16:08.51clock_sisplau: looks like Ubuntu sometimes works and sometimes not
16:08.53rafa_qual é a versao que usas
16:09.07``Erikhm, the bsd, irix, osX and solaris binaries are pretty 'official', in that they're compiled and packaged by either brlcad or myself
16:09.11sisplaui use ubuntu, debian, suse, fedora....
16:09.17clock_I came to a friend and he used "locate" on his Ubuntu and it persistently segfaulted :)
16:09.35clock_Ubuntu 1.2.3.4 Ultimately Unusable
16:09.39sisplauapt-get is the best
16:09.45``Erikredhat enterprise workstation 4 or openbsd are also ones we can effectively help out on
16:09.57``Erikor the sgi altix suse
16:10.18``Erikwhich obsd are you using? I have a 3.8 and a 4.0
16:10.27clock_4.0
16:10.41clock_Now I am gonna compile 7.10.0
16:10.43``Erikyou should make a port :D
16:11.02``ErikI would, but theo's too much of a cockbite
16:11.17sisplauclock_ what distribution you prefer?
16:11.18clock_For a port I need unstable system and that's impossible to switch back to stable
16:11.19rafa_how compile?
16:11.24rafa_./configure
16:11.26rafa_make
16:11.27rafa_and
16:11.28clock_and I have only one machine so they have bad luck with this port
16:11.32rafa_make install?
16:11.35clock_rafa_: make install?
16:11.45clock_elapsed configuration blah blah
16:11.46clock_make
16:12.07rafa_and make install
16:12.14rafa_or no?
16:12.25clock_rafa_: yes make install
16:12.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: clarify the distribution channels that need to be announced during release
16:12.34clock_;-)
16:12.40rafa_./configure prefix?
16:12.47deltazapbut, but, opennurbs....i know i make install'ed you!
16:12.51clock_I just type ./configure make make install
16:12.58rafa_ok
16:13.20clock_I want to see the button brl-cad added on my request
16:13.45clock_brl-cad, as opposed to unnamed projects like Linux or OpenBSD, reacts with improvement and bugfixes, instead of calling people idiots and trolls
16:13.47rafa_brlcad type solid works and inventor?
16:13.55rafa_is easy?
16:14.58*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
16:14.58*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
16:15.15rafa_how find on manual?
16:15.19rafa_tutorial?
16:15.22rafa_etc...
16:15.31``Erikhttp://brlcad.og
16:15.31``Erikorg
16:15.47rafa_amigo espanhol:
16:15.52rafa_etas ai?
16:15.59rafa_estas ai?
16:16.23clock_I am sure solid works have a special button to create thread
16:16.38clock_where you can select if you want withworth or Metric
16:17.24``Erikclock: write up a tcl function or a procdb and chuck it in the patches section and we'll have that, too :D
16:17.24sisplausi
16:17.34clock_and if you want left or right
16:17.34clock_and which manufacturer manufactured the bolt
16:17.34sisplauyou brazilian?
16:17.35clock_in which year
16:17.36clock_and the circumference of the manufacturer's grandfather penis
16:17.40clock_and it stamps you nice 5.8 or 8.8 on the head
16:17.42sisplauwhere do you come from?
16:17.46rafa_sim eu sou brasileiro
16:17.56sisplausamba!
16:17.59sisplauhahaha
16:18.00clock_Kaoma Lambada!
16:18.19rafa_no
16:18.19clock_macarena too?
16:18.19rafa_tche music!!!!
16:18.19sisplauhahaha
16:18.20deltazapclock_: girls aren't manufacturers silly!
16:18.22rafa_de ondes es
16:18.25sisplauspain
16:18.29sisplaubarcelona
16:18.36clock_Los Lobotomos - Macabrena
16:18.37deltazapwait, i read that wrong
16:18.40``Erikdeltazap: they're factories? :D
16:18.47rafa_Porto Alegre
16:18.52rafa_Rio Grande do Sul
16:19.32sisplauum prazer meu amigo
16:19.43sisplaudo you like futbol?
16:19.45rafa_ok
16:19.47rafa_yes
16:19.50sisplauhahah
16:19.54clock_everyone lying in the sand or surfing?
16:19.57sisplauronaldinho the best
16:19.58rafa_GREMIO!!!!!!!
16:20.10rafa_sim ele era do GREMIO
16:20.18sisplauok i konw
16:20.25sisplau*know
16:20.44rafa_friend sispalu do you use BrlCAD
16:20.52rafa_he is hard to know?
16:21.01clock_BRL-CAD doesn't it mean BRaziL-CAD?
16:21.07sisplaurafa run in the terminal window: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
16:21.16rafa_no ok
16:21.22rafa_i download the source
16:21.28sisplauin my computer it works
16:21.40rafa_but my question is :
16:21.50rafa_BrlCAD is easy to use?
16:22.09rafa_is type off Inventor
16:22.16rafa_or SolidWorks?
16:22.20rafa_or Varicad?
16:22.25sisplaui don't know
16:22.29sisplaui'm novice
16:22.39rafa_is good software?
16:22.46sisplaui only want run the benchmark option
16:23.16sisplauis a good option for CAD in linux :/
16:23.19sisplaui think
16:23.31rafa_please one moment please
16:23.36rafa_i go eat
16:23.38sisplaurblender
16:23.41sisplaublender
16:23.41rafa_ok? :)
16:23.53sisplaueat? comer?
16:23.57sisplauhahaha
16:23.58rafa_sim
16:24.02``ErikBRL stands for "Ballistics Research Laboratory"
16:24.17``Erikit's a US product dating back to '79...
16:24.47sisplauI read it in wikipedia
16:25.56clock_It's US Army and M1A1 Abrams was made in it
16:26.05``Erik(I'd smack clock for misinformation, but I've done it myself, claiming mged was "Monstrosity of a Gui EDitor" O:-) )
16:26.29clock_``Erik: I misasked, didn't misinform :)
16:26.34deltazapso, when do i get a binary for osx? :-\
16:26.52clock_G. I. Joe U. S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory
16:27.04``Erikno, the m1a1 was built on drafting paper with pencils, but in pieces... the first time someone saw the thing assembled was using the seed that became BRL-CAD
16:27.05clock_if it doesn't work, you do some pushups and it's fine :)
16:27.27``Erikdeltazap: sf.net/projects/brlcad and click "download"... it's old, 7.6.6 ...
16:27.39deltazapi know, i've been using that version
16:27.51deltazapbut i cannot for the life of me get 7.10 to compile
16:27.55``Erikmaybe brlcad will make another pkg/dmg for 7.10
16:27.57clock_I guess people who are into army fetish must love brl-cad :)
16:28.00``Erikwhat's it do?
16:28.06deltazapi'm wishing for that
16:29.14deltazapit's still the same tcl error i've been getting
16:29.25clock_rafa_: brl-cad is quite easy to use, it's good for ordinary work like http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
16:29.43clock_rafa_: I don't know how's solid works etc. maybe they can show you dimensions in the picture which brl-cad cannot
16:29.45``ErikI haven't gotten it to work with native tcl/tk, so my configure line is something like ./configure --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build
16:29.50deltazapi'm trying --enable-only-benchmark so that i can compile and test things right now
16:29.51clock_and brl-cad also cannot make 2d blueprints from the 3d
16:31.31deltazap``Erik: i've tried that, but it's not doing anything.  ./configure says that it's going to compile the version included
16:32.21``Erikdeltazap: can you paste the errors to a pastebin (like paste.lisp.org or rafb.net/paste ?)
16:32.32deltazapyeah, i will
16:39.15deltazapof course you say that after i started another attempt ;)
16:41.54``Erikwell, when ya get around to it *shrug*
16:42.17``ErikI'm building, too, so *shrug* these old g5's, while smoking, aren't quite the 8 core opterons I like working on
16:42.20clock_Should I remodel all the Ronja models with threaded fasteners?
16:42.38deltazapclock_: there's really no reason to
16:42.50sisplauciao
16:42.53*** part/#brlcad sisplau (n=gn-eleaz@163.Red-81-37-105.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
16:43.38``Erikyou're not doing stress/strain/sheer analysis on 'em, right? is all that effort worth the visual effect?
16:45.25deltazaphttp://rafb.net/p/d36N3F16.html -- my ./configure, so that you can see exactly what the system is going to try to build
16:47.01clock_``Erik: only for visual effect
16:47.14deltazapso, it is going to build tcl and tk
16:47.17clock_``Erik: is stress strain shear analysis possible with brl-cad?
16:47.36``Eriknot directly
16:47.37clock_ouch brl-cad didn't compile :)
16:47.41clock_do I need some nurbs-something?
16:48.14``ErikopenNURBS is being worked on to support the brep primitive... at the moment, you should probably turn it off
16:50.47deltazapi'm going to try that then
16:52.39``Erikyeah, the c/c++ issue just hit me on obsd, heh
16:53.43``Erik(one workaround is to "export CC=g++" before configure
16:53.43``Erik)
16:53.56deltazapwhat's the ./configure flag for opennurbs?
16:54.38``Erik./configure --help | grep -i nurb
17:03.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: beginnings of image mgmt
17:05.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: beginnings of a crude image handling function set. Will be able to save png and others some day...
17:05.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add image.c to the library
17:08.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: First victim of the libu image stuff.
17:15.57clock_<PROTECTED>
17:15.57clock_<PROTECTED>
17:16.08clock_1) How do I disable it when only enable flag is supplied?
17:16.17clock_2) Why was it autodetected as on, when not present?
17:17.06``Erik--disable-opennurbs-build (anything that says --enable- has a free --disable, and anything with a --with- has a --without-), and that's how it was set up *shrgu*
17:20.18*** join/#brlcad rafa_ (n=rafa@200.180.169.105)
17:21.38rafa_please
17:21.59rafa_where i find files for brlcad
17:22.01rafa_?
17:22.15rafa_i want open some for i see
17:22.28clock_rafa_: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja.g
17:22.39rafa_ok
17:22.55rafa_site ronja for brlcad?
17:23.19``Erikalso; if you installed it in /usr/brlcad/, go into /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/<version>/db and there'll be a bunch of .g files
17:27.20rafa_CloCk: No open
17:27.25rafa_i dont see
17:30.20rafa_Open file but no show in window
17:30.34rafa_how open file?
17:30.43rafa_File-open?
17:30.56``Erikyeah, once you open it, run "tops" in the command window
17:31.06``Erikto see what top level objects are in the file
17:31.13``Erikpick one, and do "e object"
17:31.30``Erikso if you opened m35.g, you'll see all.g in the "tops" command, and then you can do "e all.g" to see the scene
17:31.53rafa_please
17:32.00rafa_i open mged
17:32.03rafa_ok?
17:32.07rafa_and now?
17:32.22rafa_press File
17:32.28rafa_i press Open
17:32.30rafa_Ok?
17:32.34``Erikthis'd be a good time for you to head to http://brlcad.org/ and get 'principles of effective modeling (#3 in the documentation list). it has step by step instructions with screenshots
17:32.49rafa_friend
17:33.09rafa_i only know see one file open in cad
17:35.37``Erikactually, intro to mged would be better
17:35.43``Erikhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
17:45.55brlcadrafa_: what version are you using?
17:46.04rafa_7.8.0
17:46.29``Erikmoin, brlcad
17:47.45brlcadhowdy
17:48.15deltazaphmm, that build actually didn't throw any errors during the compile, but make benchmark fails
17:48.31brlcadrafa_: on the "mged>" promt, you should be able to type: opendb /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/havoc.g
17:48.40brlcadthen "e havoc"
17:49.07brlcadthat's just a quick example.. there are many other .g files in share/brlcad/7.8.0/db
17:50.02rafa_ok
17:50.11rafa_but i dont see in windos
17:50.19rafa_no see the draw load
17:50.42deltazaphttp://rafb.net/p/5X9LMG18.html -- any idea what could be causing the no file error?
17:50.53rafa_mged prompt returns it:
17:50.53brlcadrafa_: you're using Windows?
17:51.01rafa_/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.0/db/havoc.g: READ ONLY
17:51.01rafa_BRL-GSI Paris Air Show Soviet HAVOC Helicopter  (units=cm)
17:51.07brlcadahh, that's good
17:51.09rafa_no i am in ubuntu
17:51.11brlcadthen "e havoc"
17:51.15rafa_?
17:51.20brlcadtype: e havoc
17:51.20``Erikdeltazap: sure, it can't find the pix files? :D
17:51.44brlcaddeltazap: rt is crashing/failing
17:51.45rafa_write in prompt e havoc?
17:51.46deltazapbut it should, they're all there?
17:51.54brlcaddeltazap: run src/rt/rt
17:52.02brlcaddoes it display usage or a failure
17:52.08brlcadrafa_: si
17:52.39deltazapdisplays usage
17:52.48rafa_no see
17:52.49``Erikdeltazap: you might have to set PIXDIR or something
17:52.50deltazapbut i bet i'll fail when i run it
17:53.08rafa_window is black
17:53.17brlcadrafa_: type "who"
17:53.20brlcadwhat does it say?
17:53.27brlcadhavoc?
17:53.54rafa_yes
17:54.10brlcadhmm
17:54.17brlcadtype: rt -F/dev/Xl
17:54.34brlcadshould pop open a window and show a helicopter
17:55.01rafa_small
17:55.05rafa_but yes
17:55.05deltazapi'm not actually in front of the machine i just compiled it on :X
17:55.37rafa_go a compiled the source?
17:56.16deltazaphttp://rafb.net/p/y3JgjP62.html
17:57.14rafa_?
17:58.27deltazappaste of rt failing
18:06.11``Erikotool -L /Users/zap/Desktop/brlcad/src/rt/.libs/lt-rt
18:06.22``Erik?
18:07.08``Erik(it's telling you it can't find library symbols from tcl)
18:07.13rafa_please one moment
18:07.23rafa_i download the source
18:07.43rafa_and i go to compile it
18:08.00rafa_brlcad need Nvdia or Ati
18:08.02rafa_?
18:09.47rafa_my video adpter is intel and sis
18:09.52rafa_(onboard)
18:10.05rafa_Run BrlCad with it?
18:10.29joevalle1fieldsure
18:10.38``Erikintel and sis make very different video chipsets, but BRL-CAD should run with either provided your GL stuff set up right or you use the straight X driver
18:13.08rafa_run?
18:13.16rafa_with sis?
18:16.03joevalle1fieldyes
18:16.30joevalle1fieldonboard video should work fine
18:18.36rafa_i am compiled BrlCad
18:18.41rafa_please more one time
18:20.53joevalle1fieldrafa_: it's compiled?
18:21.01rafa_no
18:21.08rafa_more one time
18:21.37joevalle1fields/more one time/one moment please/
18:22.33``Erikah, from pennsylvania, no wonder it's in the same healthiness pantheon as 'scrapple'
18:22.58joevalle1fieldmmmm, bacon dressing
18:24.50``Erik<-- watching his intake, trying to keep his girlish figure O.o
18:43.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca)
18:55.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: move the bif close from view_clewnup to view_end (so it actually gets called *cough*)
18:56.00IriX64clewnup :)
18:58.38``Erikyes. clewnup.
18:58.57IriX64your pardon thought it was cleanup
18:59.24``Erikit's like cleanup, but when the fingers and brain are getting tired
18:59.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c:
18:59.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: use the data element of the bif to buffer up instead of assuming a streamed
18:59.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: write (makes write-line void of side effects, thus re-entrant, removes the
18:59.30CIA-14BRL-CAD: seek, and will allow non-streaming formats like png (at the cost of memory))
19:49.34deltazap``Erik: i understand that it can't find the tcl library symbols, but i don't know how to resolve this issue
19:50.26``Erikotool -L <binary> is the mac equivelant of ldd
19:50.39``Erikit'll say what libs are being linked in, if there's no tcl, or the wrong tcl, it'll show t hat
19:51.56IriX64http://irix64.spaces.lice.com/photos/brl-cad    <------ i want mine to do this ;)
19:54.48IriX64s/live/lice
19:54.53IriX64:)
19:55.58``Erikyou want BRL-CAD to remove lice? uh, we're good, but not THAT good, yo
19:56.13IriX64heh apply liberally...
19:58.11IriX64``Erik that was booted from the winderez environment.
19:58.43IriX64gotta find a decent windows xserver tho
20:02.53``Erikum, cygwin comes with one
20:03.01``Erikor you can drop some $'s and get something like hummingbird
20:03.11``Erikthough the wgl stuff SHOULD work
20:03.45IriX64cygwin works, but id like to test compatibility
20:03.58IriX64downloading xming from sourceforge
20:06.39``Erikdangit
20:06.41``Eriklibpng error: Call to NULL write function
20:06.41``ErikOhs Noes!
20:08.20``Erikwhat, xming? *shrug*
20:08.28IriX64brlcad on xming
20:09.09IriX64dont like the font but...
20:12.44IriX64try the blog now
20:23.56deltazap``Erik: it doesn't look like any .o's have anything linked
20:27.52``Erik.o's never do, it's the binary itself and teh .dylib files
20:28.12deltazapoh d'oh
20:28.28``Erik(a .o is just like a .a without the indexed mapping)
20:29.17``Erik(the process of taking a collection of .o, .a, and references to .dylib (or .la) files is called "linking"... otool -L shows the runtime link table)
20:30.58``Erikargh, I have one of the rt's saving 'intelligently' either pix or bw, but png is being a little bitch :(
20:32.25IriX64confirmed i can package this thing for windows systems now ``Erik
20:32.57IriX64will you guys support the brl-cad end of it :)
20:34.50IriX64raytrace complete gorgeous
20:35.42``Erikif it's a BRL-CAD issue, sure, if it's a distro/build issue, that'd be your job o.O
20:35.56IriX64heh i can live with that
20:36.16``Erik<-- notes that almost all the dev's don't touch windows
20:36.31IriX64all your stuff is here i built with --enable-everything, even jove built
20:37.30deltazap``Erik: otool only works on object files, not binaries
20:40.27``Erikhum, I've used it on binaries...
20:41.45``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/39698
20:42.49``Erikuse 'file' to make sure it's a binary and not a shell script (libtool likes putting bash scripts where you expect binaries, for link hackery)
20:43.15deltazapk
20:43.50IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad      < --- ill shut up now :)
20:44.33``Erikwhy's the rtedge image truncated? did you take the screenshot while it was still rendering?
20:44.39IriX64yes
20:45.09IriX64told you i'm an impatient little sot ;)
20:49.00IriX64how do i chanfe the darn font, reading time...
20:49.06IriX64change too
20:49.12deltazap``Erik: ah, i see, didn't know that it would be in .lib
20:49.18deltazap.libs
20:49.33brlcadit's only in libs when you build shared, static are not wrapped
20:50.17brlcaddeltazap: is libtcl installed in /usr/brlcad/lib?
20:50.59``Erikah, I'm building shared
20:51.12deltazapi've been running things from the directory of the source
20:51.35brlcadyes, I recall from your earlier pasting
20:51.54brlcadthe "quick fix" is/was to install the libs before running the binaries
20:52.14brlcadhm, that's make a useful make target
20:52.34brlcadmake install-libs or something
20:53.42deltazapyeah, libtcl8.5, libtclstub8.5, tcl8, tcl8.5, tclConfig are in /usr/brlcad/lib
20:54.09``Erikkinda like "make install-depends"? O.o
20:54.50brlcad``Erik: yeah, mebbie/sorta
20:55.20brlcadsomething like that on just src/mged would get "everything" except mged hopefully
20:55.32*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128543403.dsl.bell.ca)
20:55.44brlcadhola louipc
20:55.52louipchey hey
20:55.57``Erikum, cd src/mged && make install-depends will recurse down the defined DEPS and, um, install 'em... :D
20:56.17``Erik(it'll take headers and docs for shtuff like png and tcl, too, but *shrug* what can ya do?)
20:57.11``Erikhell, I wrote depends and install-depends so'z I could get the binary I want installed and ready as quickly as possible without all the other stuff I wasn't interested in :)
20:57.20brlcadthat's what I just said
21:00.01brlcadi was more thinking if there was some set of binaries, like in his case where it can't run rt and btclsh whether you could just do that on mged to get all the lib debs
21:00.24brlcadinstead of having to do it for rt and btclsh and whatever other binaries it tries to run without them being installed
21:01.01brlcadso you could do a two-pass and sort of be guaranteed it'd build, mac os x seems to be the only bitch right now (though I suspect aix has the same problem)
21:02.16brlcadnitfy image routine, btw
21:02.35``Erikit's gotten much bigger and uglier, it does pix and bw, and I'm CLOSE on png...
21:03.08``Erikhopefully it'll be able to do both block and streamed saves, so all our output stuff can just use it
21:03.20``Erikbut png is making my head hurt right now :)
21:09.34brlcadthat probably could/should be a libfb routine as that's the layer that begins understanding pixels and images
21:16.05``Erikyeah, I suggested that to lee, he disagreed *shrug*
21:16.06``Erikhe also asserted several times that rt can output streaming, even though it fseek()s, heh
21:16.06brlcadwhat was the basis for his disagreement
21:16.06brlcadsuggested or asked? :P
21:16.25``Erikheh, something like "I think it should go in libfb, is there a better place?"
21:16.35brlcadif you asked if it should be [whatever], his natural response is usually "no, you want to use [something not whatever] instead" :)
21:16.46``Erikyeah, yeah, dumb move on my side, heh
21:16.46brlcadregardless of the whatever
21:17.41``ErikI wasn't sure if things like pix-png should link libfb... *shrug*
21:17.59brlcadbu's not bad, probably would be my second choice unless someone wanted to migrate the basic pixel constructs from libfb to libbu too
21:18.43``Erikhe went into lala land trying to figure out the most assinine place, he hesitated when I said I'd put it in bu
21:19.00brlcadmore a question of whether you want to consider image management basic .. right now that's *only* in libfb
21:19.26``Erik(mebbe I shoulda just used SDL_Surface O:-) )
21:19.37brlcadyuck
21:20.00brlcadbu's fine, so it can do images now too
21:21.09brlcadthe image autosizing code that was replicated across libbu, libbn, and libfb could probably be moved back down into libbu then
21:21.24``Erikthough if things get simplified enough, most of util/ is going to be a second rate clone of ImageMagick's "convert" :/
21:22.02brlcadyep
21:22.10brlcadthough we do a few formats that they don't
21:22.58brlcadobscure unimportant ones of course
21:23.00``Erikcould probably make a case that those formats haven't mattered in the last decade or two :)
21:24.29brlcadthey're actually a project we should merge/utilize with the new modeler for behind the scenes data management/conversion
21:24.42brlcadat least convert and/or libconvert
21:28.35``Erikbastage, I ate one of those nasty celeste grease-disks :/
21:28.49brlcadthose are yummy
21:29.47IriX64thats a better font :)
21:30.08``Erikheh, I'm not so keen on 'em, and the nutritional facts are kinda skeery on 'em :)
21:32.22*** join/#brlcad yky (n=yokoy@89.196.47.212)
21:33.39ykyhi
21:36.09ykyare there any german brlcad users or brlcad workshops in germany?
21:36.23*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
21:37.17brlcadyky: yes, there are
21:37.32brlcadat least one of the devs is in germany too
21:37.56ykydo you know, who it is?
21:38.10brlcadthere is a tentative workshop being planned for later this summer (not finalized for sure yet)
21:38.29brlcaddaniel rossberg
21:38.38brlcadyky: did you need something in particular?
21:38.57*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-92-67.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:39.01ykyno, not really.
21:39.10brlcad:)
21:39.37*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:39.49brlcad``Erik: so is there any end-user impact to that image hook yet?
21:39.53ykyI hope to learn brlcad on a workshop more easy
21:40.02brlcad(i.e. NEWS worthy item)
21:40.29brlcadyky: it does help, though the tutorial series is pretty extensive too for some of the basics
21:40.34``Erikummmm, if not quite yet
21:40.53brlcadi'd not tested it myself yet
21:40.55``ErikI mean, you can do rtedge -o PIX:blah.poo blah.g something
21:41.01``Erikand get a PIX file
21:41.10``Erikor -o BW:blahh.something and get a bw file
21:41.45``Erikor blah.bw  and get a bw file, or blah.pix and get a pix file... or blah.png and get an error on png_write_info() and an "Ohs Noes" message
21:41.51``Erikoh, wait, thats not committed yet
21:41.53brlcadnow that could be interesting on windows, hopefully doesn't key/abort on unknowns
21:42.14``Erikif you give it COW:something or moo.cow, it'll assume pix
21:42.21brlcade.g. -o "C:myfile" :)
21:42.22``Erikbut that's not committed yet I don't think
21:42.56brlcadwhat if you wanted a name like 'PIX:foo', is there a way to specify it?
21:43.09brlcad\: or somesuch?
21:43.10``Eriknow if you give it BW:C:\path\to\lame.img, it's smart enough to say it's a BW image at C:\path\to...
21:43.19``ErikPIX:PIX:foo ?
21:43.28brlcadgood enough
21:43.42``Erikit's a q&d hack with "oh the horrors, I'll fix it, I promise" comments
21:43.43``Erik:)
21:43.51brlcadriight
21:44.33``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/39702
21:45.34``Erikthe phrasing of the image name was inspired by... oh my, ImageMagick's convert...
21:46.42``Eriknow if you give it -o PIX: blah.g, open() fails, ... :)
21:47.21``Erikor if the file name is bigger than BUFSIZ
21:48.54IriX64looked at it the ext part i understand the first part i don't
21:49.42IriX64why string+5 its the first part you want no?
21:50.24IriX64err filename +5
21:50.34``Erikthat's after I know what it is, the +5 says "skip past the format describer"
21:50.50``ErikI was gonna hit it with strtok
21:50.56IriX64parts not shown ?
21:51.00``Erikyes, it's supposed to be static (all the other 'internal' ones are static)
21:51.13brlcadah
21:52.04brlcadkinda useful generic routine too
21:52.06``Erikexposed functions are all bu_image_
21:52.22brlcadshould check for nullity
21:52.28``Erikand public defines are all BU_IMAGE_
21:52.49``Erikthat's done down in the public function
21:52.51poolio``Erik: Just a note...you're using an incosistent coding style. you use braces for the if's in the FMT: searching section but not for the filename extensions
21:53.19``Erikpoolio: it's consistantly minimal. in the first block, each if ties to two statements. in the latter, just one.
21:53.37poolioOh wow. Miss the semicolon. hah
21:53.55ykythx for input, I will contact daniel directly.
21:53.58poolioAlso, is it neccesary to check for punctuation?
21:54.25ykybye
21:54.32IriX64case png case pix case bmp :)
21:55.17poolioIriX64: case only works with ints
21:56.01IriX64ah ok
21:56.32kwizarthi! is it possible to override   --with-tcl=%{_includedir}/tcl-private \ ? so it can uses the system tcl ?
21:57.28kwizarti may need also system CFLAGS or LDFLAGS about finding libs ...
21:57.54``Erikpoolio: the punctuation is part of the syntax...
21:58.13``Erikso I can do -o PIXELS.png
21:58.52``Erikor my.pixbw
22:00.13poolio``Erik: Well, it seems kind of like a waste. How often do you have filenames that end with png, bw, bmp, or pix
22:02.32``Erikdamnit, now ya went and made me ugly it up even more by annoying me
22:02.40IriX64man define pix as 1 png as 2 etc and use that case thingy
22:03.20``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/39702#1
22:03.22IriX64err
22:03.50``Erikneed a string comparison somewhere, irix, and I don't trust a hash :)
22:04.49IriX64nice
22:05.01poolioOk, that's just pointless.
22:05.02IriX64what you posted is good
22:05.05poolioWhy would you do that ``Erik ?
22:05.14``Erikmakes it trivial to add new names to the space :)
22:05.21IriX64made his own case poolio
22:05.42IriX64parole him :)
22:05.45pooliohah
22:06.23``Erik('cept I changed the semantic, damnit)
22:06.49IriX64immaculate conception of code... interesting :)
22:07.21IriX64eyes are watering, break time
22:11.08CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: blocking output. working file guesser, pix-writer, and bw-write. beginnings of png writer.
22:12.40``Erikheads
22:12.42CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: fixed minor logic bug, heh
22:13.33CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: link libpng in for image writing
22:16.29brlcadkwizart: it is possible, but still requires 8.5+ using the latest sources
22:17.08brlcadeasiest is to force tcl building off, then append to flags as needed
22:17.25kwizartok i have 8.5 on fc7 but maybe not the lastest sources !? which date are the lastest ?
22:17.43kwizartok i have forced tcl not to build...
22:17.45brlcad7.10.0 is the latest
22:17.54kwizartyes for brlcad
22:17.55brlcadvia --disable-tcl ?
22:18.05brlcador disable-tcl-build
22:18.09brlcad(same thing)
22:18.15kwizart<PROTECTED>
22:18.17kwizartyes ok
22:18.20brlcadand that, yes
22:18.43brlcadthen just need to add --with-cflags="..." --with-ldflags="..." etc
22:18.55brlcador CFLAGS=.. way
22:19.11*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:19.14kwizartbut now i need to a little "rape" the configure.ac script to make it detect it (pastebin)
22:19.32brlcadshouldn't need to modify configure.ac
22:20.00brlcadif you turn it off and provide the right cflags/cppflags/ldflags, it should detect
22:20.01kwizarthttp://www.pastebin.ca/438882
22:20.35kwizartok i will try to paste everything to the Cflags and ldflags...
22:20.58kwizartbut the same issue append with tk iwiget itcl and regex
22:21.06brlcadheh, well you pretty much turned the validty checks off
22:21.29brlcadnote that you could have also just overrode during make as well
22:22.22kwizartone thought! is it supposed to work with gcc 4.1.1 ?
22:22.30brlcadTCL="-L/usr/lib64 -ltcl8.5" TK="-L/usr/lib64 -ltk8.5" make  after a disabled build, and maybe with some CPPFLAGS defined
22:22.41brlcadsure, that should be fine
22:23.03brlcadshould work with any gcc 2.95+ (though the 2's haven't been tested in a long while)
22:23.06kwizartbecause when i tryed to build openNURBS 4 (as system libs) it fails
22:23.30brlcadyou don't need openNURBS, i'd just disable it
22:23.58brlcadwe include openNURBS in our dist too
22:24.10kwizartbut apparently not the version bundled inside brlcad fails
22:24.15brlcadI had to make several mods to it for gcc 4 to work
22:24.35brlcadyeah, they had a few minor issues
22:25.05brlcadfeel free to pull a patchset and make it part of the fedora dist :)
22:25.06kwizartok i will check your diff for it because i may need to use it as system libs...
22:25.14kwizart:)
22:25.29brlcadhopefully I didn't patch pre import
22:25.56kwizartwell i will try that for now! thx for your tips...
22:25.57brlcadwe also replace their build system, integrating it into ours so it builds cleanly
22:26.17brlcadtheirs was a little flakey
22:26.35kwizartyes i saw! ...
22:29.22kwizartITCL="-L/usr/lib64/itcl3.3 -litcl" ITK="-L/usr/lib64/itk3.3 -litk \ does this seems right also ?
22:29.46brlcad``Erik: those negatives can crash if filename is short
22:29.57brlcadsegfault
22:35.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/libbu/Makefile.am): libraries are no longer LIBADD'd, they're defined in configure.ac in a _LIBS dependency variable, added PNG to BU_LIBS
22:36.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: oop, htester gets PNG from BU_LIBS now
22:50.53kwizartwhat i cannot understand is that i have :
22:51.07kwizartchecking for Tcl_Main in -ltcl... yes (like before..)
22:51.18kwizartbut no system tcl is found also!
22:53.49joevalle1fieldit tries to build and run another test program further down
22:54.11joevalle1fieldis the error in your config.log?
22:54.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: netbsd's library was ultimately reverted due to dependency complications, existing was fixed instead
22:55.32brlcadkwizart: it performs the library checks regardless of the setting just so there's a report of what is available/detected when people provide their build log
22:56.01kwizarti can provide it (uploading!)
22:56.04brlcadthen, as joevalle1field mentioned.. it follows up with a more comprehensive functionality test
22:59.39kwizarthttp://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/7/testing/brlcad/build.log
23:01.50joevalleyfieldlooks to me like the retry blasted the real failure
23:02.27kwizartThis is the real failure : configure: libtcl was disabled, but no system Tcl library was found
23:02.41joevalleyfield:)
23:03.01joevalleyfieldi'm only so interested because i was playing the same game earlier today
23:03.27joevalleyfieldi want to see the test program fail-- config.log would be about 20 times longer than it is
23:04.32kwizartI suppose config.log may be deleted by the retry !?
23:05.21joevalleyfieldare you setup to modify configure.ac?
23:05.36joevalleyfieldi mean, you have all the autotools at hand?
23:06.06kwizartyes
23:08.35joevalleyfieldhow do i work a pastebin?
23:09.19IriX64why does that log download instead of just opening up in a browser window
23:09.29IriX64?
23:11.44CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/retry.m4): add option to disable the retry behavior of configure
23:13.01joevalleyfieldi think cvs has a lag
23:13.39joevalleyfieldif you change the 'if' on line 110 of retry.m4 to always evaluate false, it will nullify the retry
23:14.08kwizartok
23:16.49kwizartif test "x$BC_RETRY" = "x" ; then
23:17.29joevalleyfieldi'd make it 'if test "xy" = "x" ; then'
23:19.03kwizartok building...
23:19.52brlcadyeah, good mod
23:20.14brlcadhave to rerun autogen.sh after you edit the .m4
23:20.28kwizartyes i do it by default ...
23:23.03kwizartok no retry has been done...
23:24.49kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/438960
23:25.48brlcadthat's one helluva configure line
23:25.49brlcaddamn
23:26.38joevalleyfieldline 13012
23:27.20joevalleyfieldthe failure should always appear right above the cache dump
23:28.05kwizarti have tcl 8.5 on fedora 7 ...
23:28.12brlcadminor version < 5
23:29.08kwizartbut if i do return 0 in the program check it go fine...
23:29.20brlcadkwizart: for whatever reason, it's finding a different tcl header
23:29.23kwizartand fails with itcl
23:29.24brlcad8.4 presumably
23:29.34kwizartbut not tcl...
23:29.54brlcadso even if you set it to zero, something else will fail down the line
23:29.56joevalleyfieldjust type locate libtcl and see if you have multiple versions installed
23:29.59kwizarti'm using mock to build on a chrooter env...
23:30.08brlcadlocate tcl.h for that matter
23:30.34joevalleyfieldfind /usr/lib -name "libtcl*"
23:30.47brlcadit's erroring on the header, not the lib itself
23:30.56joevalleyfieldoh
23:31.13joevalleyfieldmy bad
23:31.15brlcadit's a #define sanity check in the test: #elif TCL_MAJOR_VERSION == 8 && TCL_MINOR_VERSION < 5
23:31.34brlcadfprintf(stderr, "minor version < 5\n");
23:31.53brlcadshould probably have it print what it found
23:32.12kwizartdo you mind the same issue appear for tk tlstub itcl itk and iwiget ?
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23:33.40brlcadhm?
23:33.48brlcaddepends really where the 8.4 is coming from
23:34.58joevalleyfieldhow does your chroot thing work?
23:35.02joevalleyfieldare you in the chroot?
23:35.20kwizartno
23:35.39kwizarti'm running fedora core 6 on x86_64!
23:36.14kwizarti have a separate account that used to build things in a chroot env
23:36.30brlcadkwizart: what version is listed in your tcl.h header?
23:36.47kwizartpackages are installed via yum rpm...
23:36.50brlcadpresumably /usr/include/tcl.h or something you're providing
23:36.59kwizarton the chroot ... searching ...
23:37.22brlcadon whatever you specify, the chroot only matters if you're providing that path as a forced CPPFLAG
23:37.39brlcadunless you're building in the chroot, which you said you're not :)
23:38.43kwizarti have shame...
23:38.47kwizart#define TCL_VERSION         "8.4"!
23:43.55joevalleyfieldbut i can turn off retry with a configure script now :)
23:46.53IriX64you two... sorry to have intruded
23:49.07kwizarti was supposed to have tcl 8.5 ! Sorry to miss that ! I've ever fill a bug about tcl some time ago on redhat ... I will have to update tcl tk myself...
23:49.21kwizartis it supposed to work with pkg-config ?
23:49.56joevalleyfieldno
23:50.33brlcadkwizart: you could just let it build the provided tcl :)
23:51.18brlcadit'll build and link it static
23:51.34kwizartyes i'm asking him the current state of art about this package... !
23:52.23joevalleyfieldif there's a yada.pc.in file in a source distribution it supports pkg-config
23:52.47kwizarti mean the redhat packager... hum i can also but it was supposed to fails about tcl/tk... i will try for now...
23:53.24kwizartjoevalleyfield, i can also create it by hand !?
23:53.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob added addr and make_name commands to archer
23:54.40joevalleyfieldkwizart, you've exceeded my expertise
23:55.28brlcadyou could create them.. but what for?
23:55.30joevalleyfieldyou can of course stick a tcl.pc file in the pkg-config dir, but nobody that depends on it would look there
23:56.03joevalleyfieldbecause tcl still uses tclConfig.sh in /usr/lib
23:57.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add pkg-config scripts
23:58.00kwizarthow this work ? is this sh script is called at configure step ?
23:58.47joevalleyfieldi'm really afraid i'm talking about a different thing than you are thinking of
23:59.41joevalleyfieldtclConfig.sh is located and sourced by the configure script to setup TCL_LIB_SPEC and TCL_INCLUDE_SPEC
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070414

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070414

00:00.58joevalleyfieldthat is exactly parallel to but less elegant than pkg-config somepackage --cflags and ... --libs
00:01.28joevalleyfieldthere is a pkg-config macro that makes using them from configure.ac really convenient
00:04.08kwizartsome fedora packaging guidelines say about creating it of at least fix errors, but i understand that if upstream do not uses them they won't be used by software linking to it...
00:06.57louipcyeah I'm trying to make pkgs for all that tcl stuff for my distro it's odd
00:08.01kwizart:)
00:08.05louipcI think I'm going to put the needed files into /usr/include and make the scripts point there rather than my build directory
00:09.11joevalleyfieldyou're talking about dependency on internal headers?
00:09.13kwizarti've asked the redhat packager about current status of tcl/tk 8.5
00:09.17louipcbecause obviously if someone installs it they won't have a /home/louipc/build/itcl3.3 or whatever hehe
00:10.11louipcyeah tcl/tk isn't properly put together on my distro too. tclConfig.sh points to the packager's /home/whatever hah
00:10.21kwizarton fedora redhat package there is a /usr/include/tcl-private dir so i supposes those are internals headers ...
00:10.38louipcah ok
00:10.53joevalleyfieldthat sounds like a reasonable way to do it
00:14.31IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/439021   will this help any?
00:15.24kwizart[--redhatprovides] i didn't know what was the purpose of that!
00:15.58IriX64redhat provided rpm? i rarely use it
00:25.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: unbreak it for no sys png.h-ers, now need png cppflags
00:32.25IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad      <----- windows environment tutorial xwindows courtesy xming :)
00:33.09CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: png_destroy_read_struct() takes pointers to pointers
00:48.22kwizartok compilation with internal tcl/tk wend fine until :
00:48.26kwizartmake[2]: *** No rule to make target `brep_stub.c', needed by `vers.c'.  Stop.!
00:48.42kwizartmake[2]: Leaving directory `/builddir/build/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.0/src/libwdb'
00:54.02brlcadahh, bad ju ju
00:54.15brlcadwrong logic in Makefile.am
00:57.50kwizartrelated to openNurbs been activated or not ? (i will try with it ...)
00:58.03brlcadyeah, sorta
00:58.12brlcadthere's a file missing from the source tarball
00:58.31CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/Makefile.am: bad dist logic, causes either brep_stub.c or brep.cpp to be left out of the dist. include the missing file
01:00.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: we really really need a script that checks a dist source tarball for missing files...
01:16.33CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): remove the WIN32 conditionals relating to the binary mode specifier on file opens. just keep the rb/wb mode since ISO/IEC 9899:1990 does specify it.
01:26.31kwizart*** buffer overflow detected ***:
01:32.06kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/439113
01:34.56kwizartis libfb the same as : /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libfb.so ? from the xorg modules ?
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01:48.49IriX64i don't know about xorg but  libfb is built here fine
01:49.13IriX64far as i know not same but im a newbie
01:55.05IriX64i don't see the rest of it did it get cut off?
02:00.54louipclooks like it's all there to me
02:03.10kwizartwhich rest ? lit is only the last quote of the build log ...
02:23.50IriX64its a windows thing, sorry :)
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02:37.51IriX64i've assigned the msn butterfly to my desktop unix mged shortcut :)
02:38.18dliI want an ebuild (gentoo) for 7.10.0
02:51.17IriX64tempted to package Xming in the same dir and distribute to anybody who wants it
02:57.40IriX64doing it anybody want to try it?
03:14.54brlcadkwizart: no it is not the same
03:15.17brlcadthere are three of brl-cad's dozen or so libraries that can conflict with other projects
03:15.35brlcad(and brl-cad's predates them all)
03:16.15brlcadlooking into the crash you've shown, though I believe that is a tcl8.5 bug :/
03:17.26kwizartdo tcl 8.5 is known stable ?
03:20.12kwizartwell if i can help with this (including filling a bug to tcl - i will try to see this ...)
03:20.28brlcadthey won't care without an isolated test case
03:21.33kwizartstarting point :)
03:21.55deltazapyeah...so...i don't think i'll be getting 7.10 compiled on my own.  I'll just be waiting until the binary release :)
03:26.37kwizartwell i suppose to work on system tcl/tk first to get it work...
03:28.26kwizartDo regex is also a brlcad projet ? i don't know where i can find it as a system libs ?! I suppose i was included in boost-devel ?
03:33.02brlcaddeltazap: sorry for the complications .. this upgrade includes a slew of build system changes and not all the kinks have been worked out yet apparently
03:34.02brlcadit's working on all platforms on my testing end -- which includes at least 7 distinct platforms -- but apparently has issues on others
03:34.13brlcador is being masked by my cvs builds
03:35.05brlcadkwizart: libregex is often now bundled along with libc frequently .. try just -lc
03:35.32brlcadit's *not* the boost library
03:35.56kwizartok
03:39.36CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: (log message trimmed)
03:39.36CIA-14BRL-CAD: john points out a blatent thread locking problem where a BU_SEM_SYSCALL is
03:39.36CIA-14BRL-CAD: acquired prior to a bu_calloc() which itself also attempts to acquire that same
03:39.36CIA-14BRL-CAD: semaphore.. how the hell did that ever work?? make it use RT_SEM_RESULTS
03:39.36CIA-14BRL-CAD: instead since it is simply initializing the results array. also, toss in some
03:39.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: flushed output to avoid flooding the mged command windows to see if that helps
03:39.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: with a separate lockup issue. finally, remove the USE_FORKED_THREADS hack for
03:41.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: fixed hanging bug related to rtarea
03:41.32brlcadkwizart: it should similarly auto-detect by default.. and it checks libc -- see if it indicates in config.log why it fails
03:44.31kwizart'im checking the old one here: http://pastebin.ca/438960
03:44.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/.cvsignore: typo
03:47.13kwizartline 2565 : configure:44350: result: no
03:51.20brlcad./configure: line 44334: 30367 Segmentation fault      ./conftest$ac_exeext
03:52.01brlcadso for some reason, the sanity test crashed
03:52.45brlcadyou have it -- the regcomp test from -lc succeeded
03:53.01brlcadit failed to pass the sanity "does it work" functionality test
03:55.29brlcaddownload http://bzflag.bz/~sean/regtest.c then compile it (gcc -o regtest regtest.c) and then run it (./regtest) to see if it crashes on you directly
04:01.17kwizartok
04:03.00kwizartno it do not seems to craches...
04:04.39brlcadze plot thickens
04:04.56brlcadthat's the same test.. so some #define or compiler option is crashing it
04:05.35brlcadi'll look into it some more tomorrow, but got to run out for a bit..
04:05.46kwizartwell i'm trying the originale one...
04:25.20kwizartwell i'm going to see later ... too late... bye ...
05:22.39deltazapbrlcad: i completely understand
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13:57.30smallfoot-hi
13:57.33smallfoot-i saw 7.10 is out
13:57.38smallfoot-but is no win32 binaries
13:57.43smallfoot-when is 7.10 come for windows?
13:57.45smallfoot-is brlcad good? :d
13:58.21smallfoot-<PROTECTED>
13:58.28smallfoot-look, 7.8.0 for windows is 1 year old
13:58.37smallfoot-must make new 7.10 for windows please!!
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14:07.07brlcadhello smallfoot-
14:08.29brlcadwe don't have a dedicated windows developer, so releases for windows are .. infrequent
14:08.45brlcadif you're a windows dev, more than glad to have the help :)
14:10.25brlcadand as for whether it's "good" depends entirely on your familiarity and expectations .. it's not autocad and doesn't have a good graphical modeler interface.  it does, however, have a powerful graphics engine and a lot of capabilities
14:13.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/ (12 files): add initial pkg-config files for the core of brl-cad's libraries including libbn, libbu, librt, libdm, libfb, liboptical, libmultispectral, libwdb, libpkg, libfft, and libbrlcad
14:15.33CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate all the new pkgconfig description files, and AC_SUBST a variety of system library symbols that they may need
14:16.01CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: traverse into pkgconfig for the pkg-config descriptor files
14:16.39CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added pkg-config files for core libraries
14:22.13smallfoot-why doesnt BRL-CAD enter the Google Summer of Code ?
14:23.16smallfoot-and why dont you say that BRL-CAD is a valuable tool in fighting terrorism, then you get 100 new full-time developers from the US ARMY lol
14:23.24smallfoot-what is needed to compile BRL-CAD?
14:23.43brlcadsmallfoot-: we may host our own BSoC or BWoC
14:23.54brlcada compiler and a shell ;)
14:23.57smallfoot-BSoC? BWoC?
14:24.03brlcadBRL-CAD Summer of Code
14:24.12brlcadwe may do our own
14:24.20smallfoot-but google sponsors developers with money, and everybody knows about google summer of code
14:24.26brlcadnot for this summer, but perhaps for this winter
14:24.30smallfoot-ok
14:24.49smallfoot-if you copmile on windows, what you need besides a compiler?
14:24.59smallfoot-need libraries and stuff?
14:25.04brlcadwe might participate in GSoC next year too, depends if we get accepted
14:25.15smallfoot-okie cool
14:25.22brlcadon windows, you'll need Active Tcl's tcl/tk distribution
14:25.26smallfoot-BRL-CAD is same codebase as in 1970?
14:25.33smallfoot-oh
14:25.49brlcadthe "same" .. no, it's been under constant development
14:25.49smallfoot-maybe would be better use wxWdigets?
14:25.49smallfoot-oh
14:25.49smallfoot-okie
14:25.54smallfoot-ever rewritten from scratch?
14:26.04brlcadheh
14:26.23brlcadyou must be new to cad :)
14:26.47smallfoot-yes
14:26.52smallfoot-i never did any cad ever before lol
14:26.56brlcadbrl-cad's more than a million lines of code
14:27.10smallfoot-but i thought "hey it would be cool to download a cad software, and do a computer case box"
14:27.14smallfoot-oh
14:27.34brlcadand we only touch on a small section of the "cad industry"
14:27.47brlcadin the big picture
14:28.01brlcadinterface-wise, a "rewrite" per-se would be useful
14:28.25brlcadsomething that uses brl-cad's geometry engine and various converters and data processors, but just has a new interface
14:28.37smallfoot-oh the guy who made brlcad is dead :(
14:29.11brlcadyes, muuss passed away several years ago
14:29.17smallfoot-:(
14:29.25brlcadthough his legacy lives on
14:30.36smallfoot-yeah, thats good
14:30.59smallfoot-why is your name brlcad?
14:31.11smallfoot-when i first saaw name brlcad in the channel, i thought it was a bot
14:31.30brlcadheh, well I can't do much about that now can I :)
14:31.36brlcadbeep
14:31.39smallfoot-hehe
14:31.40brlcaderror, that does not compute
14:32.00deltazapoh great, brlcad is going to start to make no sense at all!
14:32.10brlcaddeltazap: I ever did? :)
14:32.24smallfoot-hehe
14:32.39archivisthe never sleeps so he must be a bot
14:32.47smallfoot-when i run Windows installer of BRLCAD, it ask for Username and Company, but since its free software, its pointless, why it bother ask that?
14:33.00deltazapin another irc channel i idle in, we have a bot that's been around for quite a while now, i believe his megahal brain is somewhere around 60MB
14:33.04smallfoot-also, InstallShield is proprietary software, its better use MSI or NSIS
14:34.00smallfoot-does US ARMY use BRL-CAD to make tanks and then really make them?
14:35.12smallfoot-i wanted BRL-CAD but it installed Archer and MGED?
14:35.31deltazapmged is the interface to brlcad
14:35.37brlcadsmallfoot-: usually the other way around -- the tanks exist, they are modeled in brl-cad and then analyzed
14:35.37smallfoot-okay
14:35.53smallfoot-deltazap, okay, maybe it should be made clear, not to confuse users
14:36.03brlcadprimarily for vulnerability and lethality analysis, but often for other purposes too
14:36.16smallfoot-brlcad, oh, okay.. but is it possible to make something in BRLCAD, and then make an item from it?
14:36.31brlcadsmallfoot-: i agree.. that old windows installer being used there is crap :)
14:36.37brlcadnsis would be way better
14:36.45brlcadjust need someone to put it together :)
14:37.07smallfoot-ya
14:37.16smallfoot-you can put that on TODO list or something
14:37.52smallfoot-the About dialog, should have a logo, and a clickable URL to the website
14:38.31smallfoot-when i create "New", or something, it ask me to write database name, it should ask me when i save, not when i create
14:38.58brlcadsmallfoot-: mged never "saves"
14:39.11brlcadeverything is *always* saved
14:39.18brlcaddifferent philosophy
14:39.25smallfoot-"* Use NSIS instead of InstallShield/MSI for Windows binary releases", ah, i see it
14:39.34smallfoot-oh, interestin
14:39.45smallfoot-but then if i open it, and change something, then i dont want to keep the change, then it sucks
14:39.56brlcaddepends on the type of change
14:40.03smallfoot-oh
14:40.32brlcadbut yes, if you actually edited geometry -- you'd have to make your intention evident before you edit, make a copy, etc
14:41.09smallfoot-okay, many people not used to this
14:41.49smallfoot-now, i noticed there is no toolbox where you can select what you want to create, you must use the Create menu, i think there should be a toolbox, like in any software
14:42.28brlcadsmallfoot-: mged is powerful -- it's not easy to use or pretty or well organized :)
14:42.29smallfoot-now i created an item, but i want to undo it, so i pressed ctrl-z which i expected it to undo it, but instead it spins it lol
14:42.39brlcad0 stops the spin
14:42.43smallfoot-someone should make it easier
14:42.52brlcad"someone" is working on that
14:43.02smallfoot-okie
14:43.02brlcadand you're welcome to help :)
14:43.14smallfoot-also there is "statusbar", which is pretty standard for all apps almost
14:43.24smallfoot-statusbar could be good, could provide valuable information
14:43.27brlcadthere's a status bar
14:43.30smallfoot-oh, i dont see it
14:43.45smallfoot-oh, maybe its in that console thing?
14:43.56brlcadmaybe don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.. it usually takes weeks to really "find" everything in mged
14:44.02smallfoot-oh
14:44.04brlcadit's not a discoverable interface -- requires training
14:44.10smallfoot-someone should make it less than weeks to find things lol
14:44.12smallfoot-oh
14:44.14brlcadgoing through the tutorials
14:44.36deltazapsmallfoot-: it's not that hard once you get the hang of things
14:44.59brlcadseriously, we're not short of ideas either -- the deficiencies and powerful aspects are pretty well known
14:45.25smallfoot-oh
14:45.39smallfoot-this multipane mode is nice
14:45.50deltazapi still think that Pro/E is much more confusing than brlcad :P
14:45.58brlcaddeltazap: :)
14:46.05smallfoot-but the menus has no shortcut keys, it would be good add some, it could increase productivity, so you can use keyboard instead of have to go through the menus with mouse
14:46.21brlcadthere are shortcut keys
14:46.31smallfoot-they're not mentioned in the menu
14:46.37smallfoot-usually they're mentioned in the menu to the right
14:46.37brlcadand hidden key bindings
14:46.41smallfoot-oh
14:46.49brlcadthere's not shortcuts to everything, but to many
14:46.58brlcadlook for the underline
14:47.04smallfoot-oh
14:47.12smallfoot-ah, now i understand
14:47.16smallfoot-a little bit unconventional
14:47.26smallfoot-ADD ?
14:47.32brlcadnvr mind :)
14:47.35smallfoot-lol
14:47.44brlcadlike you've had too much coffee
14:47.45smallfoot-the grid only shows in one pane when i use multipane mode
14:47.48smallfoot-hehe
14:47.50smallfoot-ya, maybe :d
14:47.55smallfoot-no, i dont drink coffee lol
14:48.21deltazapbrlcad: next friday, you may see a temporary increase in brlcad users
14:48.21brlcadwhen in multipane mode, operations are per pane
14:48.23deltazap;)
14:48.29brlcadyou can enable/disable features for any/all panes
14:48.40brlcaddeltazap: oh?
14:48.44brlcadonly temporary? :)
14:49.09smallfoot-an GUI rewrite would be good
14:49.17brlcadit would be very good
14:49.20deltazapwe're doing a computer security competition and for one of the 1 hour challenges, it's going to be a brlcad model with a hidden message
14:49.42brlcadnifty
14:49.48brlcadhow's it "hidden"?
14:50.36smallfoot-the font in the menus on Windows is big
14:50.39brlcador maybe best to know know ;)
14:50.45brlcads/know know/not know/
14:50.51brlcadsmallfoot-: it's configurable
14:50.59deltazapi'll let you find it when i get it done ;)
14:51.22smallfoot-oh
14:51.44brlcadthe guy that wrote most of mged's gui is not only partially color blind, his eyesight's not so hot either :)
14:51.51brlcadhe liked everything bigger than the defaults
14:52.20brlcadsmallfoot-: you might like archer a little more
14:52.36smallfoot-oh
14:52.36brlcadit's missing a lot of functionality, but it's an interface more like what you're probably used to
14:53.01brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png
14:53.08smallfoot-yeah, Arhcer looks nicer
14:53.22smallfoot-hmm
14:53.23brlcadbasically it's still mged, just with a different gui
14:53.28smallfoot-oh
14:53.31smallfoot-now i understand
14:53.45smallfoot-so BRL-CAD is kinda the underlaying engine, and Archer and MGED are frontends?
14:54.32brlcadBRL-CAD also *includes* the underlying engine .. and yes, archer and mged are two modeler "frontends"
14:54.45smallfoot-okie
14:54.52brlcadthere are also about 400 other processing tools
14:54.53smallfoot-which is best? which do you use?
14:54.57smallfoot-oh
14:55.06smallfoot-400 other processing tools that use BRL-CAD?
14:55.15brlcadno, brl-cad includes 400 other tools
14:55.54brlcadmged and archer, and a couple others, however, are the "main" gui-based ones
14:56.17brlcadthe rest are data processors of various sorts -- image processing, geometry conversion, data manipulation, procedural content creation,e tc
14:56.29brlcadit's a suite of tools
14:57.00smallfoot-oh, much, big, complex
14:57.11smallfoot-so which is best? which do you use? archer or mged?
14:57.32deltazapsmallfoot-: more...unixy :)
14:57.39brlcadarcher has a lot of "better" gui aspects, but it's still mostly a prototype design
14:57.50brlcadmged has "the power"
14:58.15smallfoot-oh
14:58.29smallfoot-is archer meant to be gui 2.0 or something?
14:58.59brlcadit was meant to be a prototype design, it could easily replace mged down the road if it added the missing functionality
14:59.13smallfoot-its intended to replace MGED?
14:59.29brlcaddepends whom you ask
14:59.42brlcadthat was probably some of the intention
14:59.59smallfoot-archer feels more nice and modern
15:00.02smallfoot-okie
15:00.08brlcadit's mostly written by the same guy that wrote mged, he's basically refactoring everything as he goes along
15:00.14smallfoot-oh
15:00.19smallfoot-i dont know how to draw things in archer
15:00.37brlcadme either, so can't help you much ;)
15:00.40brlcadagain *prototype*
15:00.42brlcad:)
15:00.58brlcadi.e. pre-alpha
15:01.07smallfoot-lol
15:01.10smallfoot-hehe, okie
15:01.18brlcadfunctional, and a great improvement gui-wise
15:01.29brlcadbut far from complete or usable for general use
15:01.33brlcadneeds more work
15:02.13brlcadmged is functional and usable.. but requires a fair bit of learning before you can use it, but the docs are pretty extensive
15:05.05smallfoot-oh
15:05.40smallfoot-i cant get Archer to an usable state :(
15:06.02brlcadheh
15:06.07brlcaddid you turn on "advanced" moded?
15:06.10smallfoot-yes
15:06.19smallfoot-it made more stuff appear, but all was "disabled"
15:06.22smallfoot-non-clickable
15:06.25brlcadah
15:06.31brlcadwell, you have to open a geometry file
15:06.38smallfoot-i made a "new" one
15:06.44smallfoot-i think
15:06.55brlcadopen something that already exists
15:07.05brlcadsee if you can display it, like moss.g
15:07.11smallfoot-MGED can only export to ascii and database? cant export to SVG, 3ds, dwf or any of formats?
15:07.15smallfoot-oh
15:07.43brlcadMGED reads and writes BRL-CAD format .. there are other tools (part of the 400) that read/write other formats
15:08.24brlcadtwo diagrams of interest perhaps:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg
15:08.24smallfoot-ah, open moss.g works
15:08.42brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/converters_page23.jpg
15:08.44smallfoot-it should be integrated in MGED and Archer to export to more formats
15:10.25brlcadhere's an example pure brl-cad model made with mged: http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/t62c.jpg
15:12.02smallfoot-looks nice
15:12.22smallfoot-is autocad the industry de-fact thing? like photoshop is to graphics?
15:12.50brlcadthey're one of the biggest, but no, not the defacto standard
15:13.17brlcadthere are about 5 companies that are each multi-billion dollar profit makers
15:14.09smallfoot-oh
15:14.15smallfoot-which are the most popular software?
15:14.25brlcadah, here's a better example of a prototypical model: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png
15:14.56smallfoot-complex drawing
15:16.42smallfoot-you know which are the most popular software?
15:17.19brlcadpretty much
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15:18.08smallfoot-which is?
15:20.14brlcaddepends which part of the cad domain you care about
15:20.43brlcadthere are at least one or two major products in each industry:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
15:21.40smallfoot-oh
15:22.08smallfoot-oh, its pretty big industry
15:22.28brlcadpro/e, unigraphics/nx, solidworks, autocad, gibbscam, catia
15:22.46brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CAD_companies
15:23.10smallfoot-oh, i only heard about autocad
15:23.47smallfoot-i never done anything CAD, CAE, CAM stuff before, and its kinda confusing, and difficult to use software =/
15:24.05smallfoot-do you know any good software? any easy software? any noob software?
15:25.01brlcadbrl-cad's pretty easy to me :)
15:25.07brlcadbut not noob-friendly
15:25.31brlcadCAD software is hard in general -- I don't know anyone that has it "simplified down"
15:25.45brlcadthe closest you'll probably get is something non-CAD but still modeling
15:26.23smallfoot-oh
15:26.39smallfoot-ya, i tried Blender, its some 3D software, but its difficult too lol
15:26.48smallfoot-it seems all kind of CAD and 3D software is difficult lol
15:27.03brlcadyou probably also mean "free", which none of those I listed are free by a long shot ;)
15:28.58smallfoot-ya
15:29.20smallfoot-even Google SketchUp is difficult for me lol
15:32.03brlcadwell then..
15:32.22brlcadmaybe the problem isn't the software :)
15:32.28smallfoot-hehe
15:32.28brlcadmaybe too many skittles :)
15:32.31smallfoot-ya
15:33.02smallfoot-isnt there any software, where you can write stuff like <box width="50cm" height="20cm" depth"10cm" color="red"> or something?
15:33.04brlcadso, you're going to whip out an nsis installer for brl-cad ? :)
15:33.13smallfoot-i never used NSIS
15:33.18smallfoot-never made an installer before
15:33.26brlcadgood chance to learn ;)
15:33.32smallfoot-true
15:33.37brlcadlots of fame, glory, and exposure
15:33.47smallfoot-yeah, and maybe sex too
15:33.49smallfoot-lol
15:34.22brlcadthat 7.6.0 windows installer reports about 100,000 downloads
15:34.35smallfoot-wow
15:34.37smallfoot-cool
15:34.45brlcadso you'd get a lot of exposure if you made it better ;)
15:35.03smallfoot-i install NSIs now, gonna check it out
15:35.53brlcadI have a beautiful example nsis installer for you to go by if you get that far
15:36.43smallfoot-oh
15:38.16smallfoot-ok, i did an example installer :p
15:38.34brlcadi mean a fully-functional example from a real app :)
15:38.39smallfoot-ya
15:38.41brlcadbz's is splended
15:38.45smallfoot-i wonder if i need write registry keys?
15:39.10brlcadshould not
15:39.28brlcadhere's a good example: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.8.exe?download
15:39.34smallfoot-some reg keys needed if you want it to be uninstallable
15:40.35brlcadthe actual nsis for that example: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/
15:40.54smallfoot-oh
15:40.55brlcadsmallfoot-: not necessarily - you can provide an uninstaller
15:41.18smallfoot-ya, i guess
15:41.34smallfoot-but example shows what reg keys to use to put an uninstalled in "Add/Remove programs"
15:42.51brlcadyeah, that would be the easiest for starters
15:43.01brlcadi'm saying that eventually, you'd want that to be optional
15:44.50smallfoot-its standard to use "Add/Remove progams", so i think that should be used, thouhg you can uninstall from start menu too
15:46.02smallfoot-i dont think its possible to choose a whole directory in NSIS, you must choose file for file, when creating the config?
15:46.45brlcadi don't remember
15:47.26brlcadi believe you can
15:47.36smallfoot-okie
15:47.43brlcadyeah,  you can
15:47.44smallfoot-you used NSIS before?
15:47.50brlcaddid you even read the example?? :)
15:47.56smallfoot-i read example.nsi
15:48.03smallfoot-and example2.nsi
15:48.11brlcadno, the functioning one
15:48.19smallfoot-hmm
15:48.30brlcad11:39 <@brlcad> here's a good example: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.8.exe?download
15:48.34brlcad11:40 <@brlcad> the actual nsis for that example: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/
15:48.38smallfoot-oh those
15:48.48smallfoot-but i thouht thats for fancy unneeded graphics?
15:49.20brlcadeh, that's only one aspect of many
15:49.31brlcadyou do see that there's an nsis file in there?
15:50.22brlcadand the "fancy unneeded" graphics might not be strictly necessary, but they are also part of the polish that would be nice to have
15:51.25smallfoot-indeed
16:04.09CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.1: add an initial manpage for the brlcad-config script
16:11.08CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: added pkg-config scripts
16:13.08smallfoot-you dont happen to know how to copy a whole directory instead of just a file in NSIS?
16:19.41smallfoot-ah, i figured it out
16:32.24smallfoot-so you want the installer to have Modern UI like the one in BzFlag?
16:40.00brlcadyes
16:40.13brlcadthough the actual images don't have to be sorted out
16:40.39brlcadwe have artwork I can stub in for them.. more just having them be a placeholder -- could even just leave the same images
16:40.54smallfoot-ah, okie
16:40.59smallfoot-you have any .ico ?
16:42.31brlcadyes
16:43.04smallfoot-okie, you send me?
16:45.17brlcadhere's a crappy old one: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/doc/html/manuals/small-eagleCAD.ico
16:46.00smallfoot-okie
16:48.12brlcadneed to regenerate a better .ico from http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/logo/
16:50.32smallfoot-ya
16:50.45smallfoot-much nicer logo
16:50.51smallfoot-i dont have any icon software tool thouhg
16:52.52smallfoot-i guess its okay for me to use the bzflag as a base?
16:53.53brlcadsure
16:54.10brlcadthe images are easy to replace
16:55.50smallfoot-okie
16:57.28smallfoot-this "Modern UI" that BzFlag makes the installer a bit more complex
17:00.53brlcadit's also got optional installation componenets, which is something BRL-CAD needs too
17:02.16smallfoot-yeah
17:02.23smallfoot-for "Example" directory
17:02.25smallfoot-and stuff like that
17:02.30smallfoot-maybe for Archer
17:07.32smallfoot-you sent me a bad icon, it was 96x83 dimensions
17:08.34brlcadyeah, the main sections would probably be example geometry, documentation, developer libraries/headers, & applications (converters, benchmark suite, MGED, and Archer)
17:09.04brlcadi thought that icon seemed corrupt
17:09.26smallfoot-yeah, the NSIS wouldnt compile, it warned about the icon
17:09.40smallfoot-i can use the icon from  bzflag
17:16.36smallfoot-example geometry is in BRL-CAD\Samples?
17:16.59brlcad?
17:17.20brlcadit's wherever you put it
17:17.57brlcadfor a normal unix install, it's in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.0/db
17:18.17brlcadfor windows ...
17:36.55smallfoot-we need side.bmp of 164x314
17:37.16smallfoot-and header of like 150px width (or wider) and 57px high
17:47.59brlcadokay
17:49.28smallfoot-there is doc\htlm\manuals
17:49.39smallfoot-but doc\html\ is empty, its only the folder manuals there
17:50.24brlcadyou mean in the 7.6.0 release?
17:50.36brlcadignore what's in there ;)  it's missing a lot of things
17:51.16brlcadin a source distribution, it'll be most of the items under the doc/ directory, as well as other docs on the website like the tutorial pdfs
17:51.59smallfoot-7.8.0
17:52.09smallfoot-oh
17:52.16smallfoot-didnt know there are pdfs
17:53.17smallfoot-you want user to be able to choose not to install start menu icons?
17:54.26brlcadyeah
17:54.50smallfoot-okie
18:08.45smallfoot-you dont have BRL-CAD installed on any Windows machine atm?
18:15.41smallfoot-wow, this InstallShield really is dumb
18:17.19brlcaddone with the graphics, http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/header.bmp http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/side.bmp
18:17.41smallfoot-awesome
18:19.23smallfoot-someone should compile the .exe files so the icons are attached to them
18:19.51smallfoot-so we need a icon and perhaps but only maybe a uninstall icon, i dont think its really needed, but we could have it if wants
18:36.53smallfoot-can you get me an good ico?
18:38.48brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/
18:39.01brlcadwas just something quick
18:39.13brlcaddunno if the larger sizes are valid, can't test really well
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18:45.45smallfoot-best would be if all 4 was in 1 .ico file
19:05.24smallfoot-Error finding icon resources: installer, uninstaller icon size mismatch - see the Icon instruction's documentation for more information -- failing!
19:05.25smallfoot-Error - aborting creation process
19:05.43smallfoot-the icon you sent me apparently isnt good enough for NSIS
19:05.57brlcadwhich one did you use?
19:06.03smallfoot-32x32
19:06.27smallfoot-which is 16x16
19:06.28brlcadsaying it's a mismatch.. so uninstaller must be different size
19:06.41smallfoot-though the bzflag icon was 32x32 and it worked fine
19:06.54brlcadbzflag had multiples embedded
19:06.57smallfoot-ya
19:07.01smallfoot-now i uncommented the uninstaller icon; Error finding icon resources: installer, uninstaller number of icons doesn't match - see the Icon instruction's documentation for more information -- failing!
19:07.03brlcadso no mismatch
19:07.10smallfoot-ya
19:07.18smallfoot-i guess we need one with both 16x16 and 32x32
19:07.21smallfoot-you could make that?
19:07.27brlcador an uninstaller with 32
19:07.44brlcadi'm working on a multisized .ico
19:08.53smallfoot-okie
19:09.48smallfoot-do you think you could compile 7.10.0 and we roll out a new release?
19:10.41brlcadcan do a 7.10.2 at the end of this month, there are a couple fixes that needed to be made already
19:10.47smallfoot-oh
19:10.49brlcadincluding windows build fixes
19:10.59smallfoot-thought 7.10.0 was latest, that was the version of the source at SF.net i saw
19:11.01smallfoot-cool
19:11.05brlcadit is the latest
19:11.08smallfoot-oh
19:11.11smallfoot-but you say 0.2
19:11.21smallfoot-err, 10.2
19:11.21brlcadyes, that's the next release version
19:11.25smallfoot-okie
19:11.30smallfoot-col
19:11.30brlcadin about two weeks
19:11.32smallfoot-cool*
19:11.33smallfoot-nice
19:11.46smallfoot-the installer is pretty much done, i believe
19:11.46brlcadtrying to stick to our monthly release schedule
19:11.50smallfoot-just needs be compiled and tested
19:11.53smallfoot-oh
19:12.15smallfoot-you done with the icon soon?
19:12.15brlcadif I stay off irc a few minutes :)
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19:13.06smallfoot-hehe
19:13.11smallfoot-okie
19:16.03dliI want a brlcad-cvs package for gentoo
19:20.22``Erikso go make one?
19:22.05dli``Erik, I couldn't make it run
19:22.15bjorkBSDtry again? :)
19:23.20dlibjorkBSD, kidding?
19:24.06smallfoot-lol
19:47.25smallfoot-brlcad, you working on the ico?
19:52.28brlcadyes
19:53.11smallfoot-good
19:53.14smallfoot-you have it ready soon? :d
19:53.24brlcadhopefully
19:54.39smallfoot-good
20:11.39dliI got a gentoo ebuild for cvs, it's compiling now
20:18.45brlcadthere we go, that should be something
20:18.54brlcadnot a great icon, but it'll do for now
20:19.22brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/mossicon.ico
20:19.42brlcadquestion, though.. which icon is this for?
20:19.54brlcadMGED != BRL-CAD
20:20.21brlcadif it's an mged icon, i'll have to create another
20:22.06smallfoot-this one is primarily for installer
20:22.12smallfoot-but one for MGEd would be good too
20:24.01brlcadokay, yeah, for installer, that'll do just fine
20:24.02smallfoot-Error finding icon resources: installer, uninstaller icon size mismatch - see the Icon instruction's documentation for more information -- failing!
20:24.02brlcadwell I did verify this one .. it has 48, 32, 16 embedded, should be standard win32 format
20:24.06brlcaduninstaller might have to match exactly or something
20:24.15brlcadwhat uninstaller icon are you using?
20:24.27smallfoot-the one that came with bzflag
20:24.36smallfoot-which is 16x16 and works with bzflag.ico which is 32x32 strange
20:25.07brlcadah, it only has 16 and 32
20:25.12brlcadperhaps it has to match all sizes
20:25.17brlcadi'll make one up
20:38.29IriX64heh -A=opteron, who you kidding IriX
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20:45.00IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/440165   <----- hehehehe should i build it?
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20:53.33IriX64theres a picture of an mged icon on my blog now, yours if you want it
20:54.45smallfoot-where your blog?
20:55.08IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad
20:55.15IriX64use the -
20:57.00IriX64thanks to whoever put the opteron specific machine.h together for gcc :)
20:58.28brlcadsmallfoot-: http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/mossicon.ico and http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/ico/uninstall.ico  updated
20:58.34brlcadthey are matching now
20:58.54brlcadif it still errors, then there must be some other rule about which sizes/depths must be in there and which are optional
21:00.40smallfoot-okie
21:00.55smallfoot-where you got uninstall icon from?
21:03.22brlcadi just made it
21:05.44smallfoot-okay it works now
21:06.00smallfoot-but the installer needs some tweaking
21:06.03brlcadhm, good to know
21:07.18IriX64smallfoot, if you want that eagle icon, let me know how to get it to you
21:07.50IriX64e-mail comes to mind
21:09.13brlcadeagle icon?
21:09.24IriX64look on my blog
21:09.51brlcadeh, that's the one already in the distro
21:10.19IriX64whup sorry then
21:10.30IriX64didnt know he already had it
21:10.31brlcadtis an ugly logo :)
21:10.42IriX64cmon, i kind of like it
21:10.55brlcadi've looked at it for too many years
21:11.03brlcadthe colors kill baby seals
21:11.52IriX64heh change it to green then
21:12.10brlcadit's an option (and already done)
21:12.23brlcadbut more important to get the nsis installer working first, regardless of the icon
21:12.36IriX64true sorry for intruding
21:12.40brlcadthe moss world one should do just fine for that
21:13.50IriX64that the one thats on the ftp?
21:14.08brlcadyes
21:14.30IriX64that is also nice
21:14.56brlcadreally shouldn't have text, since the icon has it's own label
21:15.02brlcadbut oh well
21:15.04IriX64ill have to blow it up to get a better look just a sec...
21:15.48dlihow do I specify system tcl tk libraries for configure?
21:17.26IriX64brlcad that dir is no longer there?
21:17.55IriX64ah i see tmp oh well
21:27.17smallfoot-the uninstall icon doesnt look like an uninstall icon on 16x16
21:31.21IriX64heh 41 minutes to build it i'll install this and shut up now
21:32.57brlcadsmallfoot-: yes, I know
21:33.21brlcadneither icon is what I'd consider good or done, but it'll placehold for now
21:38.40smallfoot-i can use default NSIS icons
21:38.42smallfoot-they look nice
21:38.45smallfoot-i should use default?
21:39.12deltazapthe install icon could be 'in' and the uninstall icon could be just 'Z'
21:40.25smallfoot-deltazap, what?
21:42.01deltazapstrained mged joke ;)
21:42.10smallfoot-hehe
21:42.25smallfoot-okie, i dont that, im a noob
21:42.57smallfoot-the installation routine seems to work fine
21:43.05smallfoot-but the uninstallation needs some tweaking
21:43.15smallfoot-there seems to be no recursive deletion
21:43.32smallfoot-i hope there is a way so i dont have to manually tell it each directory to delete
21:45.24bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
21:48.01IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/440238 <-- pardon the instrusion, this is at a C:\ prompt
21:49.01smallfoot-bjorkBSD, /r works at File (for install), but /r dont work for "Delete"
21:49.38bjorkBSDdos?
21:49.55bjorkBSDIriX64 uses dos too, smallfoot-.
21:50.02bjorkBSDi think it's dos3.11 :)
21:50.22IriX64heh
21:50.30IriX64frame buffer is up man
21:51.42IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/440241   have a peek :)
21:52.00IriX64ill shut up now, poof :)
21:52.09brlcaddeltazap: heh
21:52.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in:
21:52.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: initial brlcad-config script template that, similar to pkg-config, can report on
21:52.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: various cflags/cppflags and libs/ldflags for 3rd-party developers to use for
21:52.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: linking against brl-cad's various libraries individually or collectively. could
21:52.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: undoubtedly use some more work and additional features like reporting on other
21:52.13CIA-14BRL-CAD: various configure-time and compile-time options that get used for a given build,
21:52.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: but this should get the ball rolling.
21:52.31brlcadin and kill, actually :)
21:52.42brlcadotherwise e and Z ;)
21:53.50smallfoot-brlcad, i can use deafult NSIS icons, they look nice, should I use default?
21:54.33brlcadwhatever you think looks best for starters .. but leave the others stubbed in the .nsis file so it can be set/changed later if it requires some edit
21:56.00CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/fb.pc.in: should have libm for libbu
21:56.37CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: generate the brlcad-config script during configure
21:57.08CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: install the brlcad-config script into the script/bin directory, include along with the distribution. include and install the manpage for it too.
21:59.50IriX64what should i draw? :)
22:00.33smallfoot-computar
22:04.00IriX64http://irix64.spaaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad    <----  about=good work sean whoever you are
22:04.25CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/history.txt: include a big ol disclaimer that this isn't a write-up, it's just old notes being kept for reference for a future writeup
22:04.26smallfoot-brlcad, only icon names need be change,d the .nsi file dont need be touche
22:04.59brlcadsmallfoot-: sounds good then
22:05.24smallfoot-i just cant decide wether to use current icons or the NSIS default ones
22:06.52CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added a brlcad-config configuration script
22:08.32smallfoot-NSIS takes like <10mb
22:08.36smallfoot-old installer took 15mb lol
22:08.43brlcadsmallfoot-: use the current .. it'll motivate me to clean them up come time to release
22:08.52CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged should now correctly find its resources if you turn off tcl/tk
22:08.58smallfoot-okie
22:09.11brlcadunless you want to stab at making some nice icons too
22:10.33smallfoot-okay, iguess the libraries shoudlnt be optional lol
22:10.39smallfoot-since it doesnt run without them
22:11.08brlcadthe libraries aren't but the developer headers would be
22:11.27brlcadand various developer libraries
22:12.51smallfoot-lib\ is needed
22:13.22brlcadyep, at least portions
22:13.33brlcadmged has to find it's run-time libraries
22:13.42smallfoot-ya, so i dont make \lib optional?
22:13.47brlcadwe're talking about two separate things, or your misunderstanding
22:14.01brlcadno, \lib doesn't become optional
22:14.08smallfoot-ok, it was optional, i change so it isnt
22:14.22smallfoot-ill keep includes\ optional ?
22:14.31brlcadthere are additional things that will ultimately go into the windows installer (that are not currently a part of the installer)
22:14.39brlcadsure, keep includes optional
22:14.56smallfoot-okie
22:18.31smallfoot-I had "Doc\" optional, but Archer doesnt run without Doc\ :(
22:18.54smallfoot-so what should i do?
22:20.55IriX64brl-cad just came of age (check blog for dosshot1 and dosshot2)
22:21.21brlcadsmallfoot-: that's because there's stuff in Doc that doesn't belong there
22:21.28brlcadjust make it non-optional for now
22:22.12smallfoot-oh
22:22.14smallfoot-okie
22:24.16smallfoot-i believe it to be kinda done now...
22:25.25smallfoot-so what should i do?
22:25.28smallfoot-do you have a windows box?
22:25.42smallfoot-we roll out this for 7.8.0 or we wait until 7.10.2 ?
22:26.09brlcad7.
22:26.18brlcad7.8.0 is long dead :)
22:26.32brlcadi do have a windows partition somewhere available to test
22:26.40brlcadi'd like to get the nsis setup into CVS
22:26.56smallfoot-i can send it to you, and you put it in CVS?
22:27.05brlcadyeah, that'll work
22:27.14smallfoot-you use .7z ?
22:27.59brlcadp7zip?
22:28.05smallfoot-7-Zip
22:28.07brlcadi can install it if needed
22:28.10smallfoot-oh
22:28.15smallfoot-well, i can send whatever you need
22:28.19smallfoot-which format you want it in?
22:28.25brlcadwhatever really
22:28.29smallfoot-zip works?
22:28.47smallfoot-do you want the 10 mb binary too?
22:28.58brlcadprobably not, but upload that too
22:29.00smallfoot-oh
22:29.06brlcadjust separately
22:29.10smallfoot-ah okie
22:29.17smallfoot-i can send them over IRC to you?
22:29.20brlcadanonymous ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming
22:29.20smallfoot-or how you want them?
22:29.24smallfoot-oh, okie
22:29.37smallfoot-then i dont need zip them
22:29.44smallfoot-ill zip them anyways lol
22:31.47smallfoot-okay, its uploaded
22:31.59smallfoot-brlcad-7.8.0.exe is the binary installer, you can make your own if you want
22:32.18smallfoot-nsis.zip is the artwork, icons, brlcad.nsi install script, etc
22:33.31smallfoot-you extract the nsis.zip file into brl-cad\nsis\, so there is an nsis directory in the same place as the bin, lib, includes, samples, doc directories
22:35.13smallfoot-i've tested it some, and it seems work good on my computer, but please read the brl-cad.nsi file so you can see what it does, and preferably run it on a computer where you have backup of stuff, cuz i dont wanna be the dumbass noob who wrecked it all for any of you lol
22:36.15smallfoot-this is my first time i touched NSIS
22:47.01brlcadsmallfoot-: cool!
22:47.49smallfoot-works good?
22:47.51smallfoot-nice :)
22:48.30smallfoot-you managed to compile the .nsi into a setup? use the latest version of NSIS 2.25
22:50.08brlcadstill looking through the files
22:51.51smallfoot-okie
22:53.08smallfoot-try uninstall too
22:53.28smallfoot-the uninstaller uses some scary RMDir /r (recursive)
22:53.34smallfoot-not me
22:53.41brlcadi know it wasn't you :)
22:53.43smallfoot-hehe
22:53.51brlcadmonth and a half ago
23:14.57brlcad~smallfoot-++
23:15.02brlcadthat is f'ing sweet
23:15.12smallfoot-thanks :)
23:15.13smallfoot-cool
23:15.16brlcadway cool
23:15.18smallfoot-so its in CVS yet? :)
23:15.55smallfoot-let some other developer check it out too, so that we can be sure it works as intended
23:19.24brlcadthere's some minor little details to clean up like files names and things that have changed since 7.8 but it's looking great
23:19.32brlcadand is just *way* nicer than the installshield
23:20.29smallfoot-ya, it is
23:20.31smallfoot-i hate installshield
23:20.42smallfoot-installshield put stuff in Windows\ too
23:21.20smallfoot-also, file size reduces by a third of what it was
23:21.33brlcadif you don't mind your real name getting listed and posted throughout the net, I'd like to credit you properly
23:21.40smallfoot-okie
23:21.49smallfoot-first and last name?
23:21.55brlcadwhatever you'd like it to say
23:21.57smallfoot-okie
23:22.29smallfoot-but dont write smallfoot :D
23:22.34brlcadhaha
23:22.42brlcadonly in the cvs commit messages :)
23:22.49smallfoot-no, not smallfoot lol
23:22.59brlcadelse can't backtrack :)
23:23.13smallfoot-whats that?
23:23.51brlcadsomeone reviewing the history
23:23.57smallfoot-oh
23:24.04smallfoot-cant you just write brlcad or jonathan?
23:24.12smallfoot-or "anonymous" or something
23:24.31brlcadi'll write whatever you want, i'm referring to two different things
23:24.38smallfoot-oh
23:24.46smallfoot-ya, on the backtrack
23:24.53brlcadone is the credit and news items that will get distributed .. that'd be your real name
23:24.57smallfoot-ya
23:25.21brlcadthe other is the cvs commit message that is only read by other devs, where I'd ideally list both at least once
23:25.28brlcadso we have a tie to whom it is
23:25.31smallfoot-oh
23:25.39smallfoot-but people will laugh at me if it says smallfoot :(
23:25.45smallfoot-i rather it not say smallfoot lol
23:25.53brlcadnah, they wouldn't
23:25.56brlcadbut that's find
23:25.56smallfoot-ok
23:26.02brlcadi'll just put "the foot guy"
23:26.05smallfoot-lol
23:26.12smallfoot-cant it be "anonymous" or "jonathan" ?
23:26.34smallfoot-if not, then put whatever you want, it really dont matter that much lol
23:26.45brlcadheh, it could be .. yeah, it just doesn't matter
23:26.53brlcadit's only read by other devs reviewing history
23:27.00smallfoot-okie
23:27.06brlcadbut that's fine, i'll put jonathan
23:27.10smallfoot-okie, cool
23:27.12smallfoot-thanks, that be great
23:27.15brlcadbut more important is what to put for the news
23:27.19smallfoot-yeah
23:28.12smallfoot-where will my name show? website?
23:28.16smallfoot-i gonna show my bro and brag :D
23:29.17IriX64not too shabby, it works with X-Win32 too ``Erik :)
23:29.38IriX64lemme try a shot
23:29.39brlcadsmallfoot-: it'll show up all over the place
23:29.53brlcadit'll be forever in brl-cad's sources too
23:29.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/ (6 files): initial import of a superb nsis installer for BRL-CAD, provided by jonathan
23:30.10smallfoot-cool :d
23:30.25brlcadwhen full binary distributions are put together, announcements are sent out to various websites and news channels
23:30.41brlcadit ends up getting replicated several dozens of times over
23:31.24brlcadaside from just being permanently credited in brl-cad's history and authorship files
23:32.06IriX64font is huge, but it works
23:32.08smallfoot-cool
23:32.10smallfoot-lol
23:32.11brlcadso, going to tell your name?
23:32.14smallfoot-i did
23:32.16smallfoot-in notice
23:32.23brlcadahh
23:32.25smallfoot-just did again
23:32.25smallfoot-saw?
23:32.25brlcaddidn't notice :)
23:32.29brlcadyes
23:32.30brlcadgot it
23:32.31smallfoot-okie, good
23:32.36smallfoot-you didnt notice the /notice lol
23:33.06brlcadi think you're maybe the second person in about three years to use notice
23:33.44smallfoot-oh
23:33.54smallfoot-ya, it actually isnt used very much
23:34.06smallfoot-my friend occasionally notice floods me to get my attention though
23:36.50brlcadheh
23:37.04IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad      <---- with X-win32  :)
23:37.23smallfoot-X-Win32 = proprietary software
23:37.25smallfoot-aeeeeeh
23:37.41IriX64just testing, should work with any xserver
23:37.49IriX64works with xming too
23:37.55smallfoot-oh
23:38.30IriX64unix rides the windows wave & word to your mother ;)
23:39.09smallfoot-lol
23:39.16IriX64heh
23:41.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (AUTHORS NEWS): credit Jonathan Bonomo for the outstanding new BRL-CAD installer for Windows using NSIS. a huge improvement over the installshield horror, thanks!
23:41.47brlcadthere will be a write-up with better detail when the next windows binary is posted
23:44.20smallfoot-okie
23:45.44IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/440358    <---- heh gave it something to do, i'll shut up again :)
23:45.59*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
23:46.41brlcadthat you did
23:46.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.Windows: special thanks to bonomo for the new windows installer
23:46.59smallfoot-Size: 9.96107e+07mm -eek-
23:47.31IriX64:)
23:48.37brlcadIriX64: you should try compiling with CFLAGS=-DBSD .. see if that makes the "bu_nice_set() SysV error:  wanted nice 10! check bias=0" error go away
23:48.47brlcadif it does, I can put in a fix
23:48.56brlcadif it fails to compile, I can put in a fix
23:49.12IriX64ty ill try it
23:49.26IriX64may take a while tho :)
23:51.13*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
23:55.38brlcadIriX64: never mind, I have a fix already
23:55.45brlcadjust getting rid of that old sysv code
23:55.57IriX64was just configuring, you sure?
23:56.07IriX64ok then
23:56.16brlcadyeah, thanks though
23:56.20IriX64sure
23:56.25brlcadthis should make that warning go away
23:56.32IriX64good
23:56.52IriX64still works though it seems benign here
23:59.25CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: restructure bu_nice_set() so we don't get an error (seen at least under cygwin/mingw) about 'SysV error: wanted nice 10! check bias=0' .. getting rid of the obsoleted sysv code that used nice() to try to set a value.
23:59.43brlcadit is benign
23:59.45brlcadjust annoying
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070415

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070415

00:00.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for setpriority for src/libbu/parallel.c in bu_nice_set()
00:38.51IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad    <--- moonlight shot rendered on xwin32 :)
00:40.08IriX64heh you do it i'm busy with 7.10 ;)
00:40.23brlcadi just might :P
00:40.39IriX64give me a copy when you get it done :)
00:44.23IriX64haha xwin32 takes screen shots too, bonus, i might buy that thing
00:49.51``Erikor a big sphere
00:51.34IriX64yellow ;)
00:53.00IriX64``Erik look for ],, in configure.ac (the x11 link functionality part i think)
00:53.31``Erikum, why?
00:54.03IriX64my x11 support isnt there and don't tell me i don't have x11 :)
00:55.47``Erikum, that's testing for link ability, after the header has been found
00:56.02``Erikcheck your config.log for why it's unable to check the X libs
00:56.19IriX64ok ty
00:57.11IriX64thought acchecklib checked the libs
00:58.29IriX64the jove thing has already been reported i take it?
01:02.34brlcadyes
01:02.53brlcadIriX64: this would be a great time to learn CVS and work from the latest CVS sources
01:03.04brlcadso that changes can be immediately applied and retested
01:03.29brlcaddidn't matter before relase, but now it would help
01:04.36IriX64ill think about it had a horrible experience with cvs don't want it repeated (guy hacked his way in using my ip and deleted most of the project, I swore off cvs after that)
01:06.35brlcadehm, that would only be if you were running a cvs server
01:06.57brlcadotherwise, you're going to be looking at problems that have already been fixed again
01:10.23``Erikum, using your ip? O.o like a MiM attack, or? o.O (and since you'll only have read access to the repo, like everyone else in the world does, there's no risk, right?)
01:10.33IriX64ok ill take the sourcefoge tutorial and set up a client
01:13.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/Makefile.am: initial makefile template for nsis files, add files to the dist
01:14.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac misc/Makefile.am): generate nsis Makefile, traverse into it
01:14.19brlcadthe new nsis installer is pretty sweet
01:14.30brlcadgonna have to one-up it on os x
01:17.45``Eriknsis as in nullsoft?
01:22.54joevalleyfieldonly way to one up it is to make bloody aqua work ;)
01:23.00IriX64well rsync seems to be working, will that do?
01:24.41joevalleyfieldirix, rsync for what?
01:24.56IriX64getting the latest brlcad sources
01:25.10IriX64sourceforge supports it
01:25.27joevalleyfieldlet me go read about that
01:25.41IriX64all right
01:25.44IriX64:)
01:26.03joevalleyfieldactually, could you give me a link?
01:27.02joevalleyfieldwow
01:27.06joevalleyfieldthat's magical
01:27.48joevalleyfieldfor a non-committer who is on irc here, that is probably ideal
01:28.35IriX64http://sourceforge.net/docs/E04/en/#viewcvs
01:28.48IriX64yeah
01:31.23IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/440464   <---- bottom of the paste what the farkle is yes/lib :)
01:31.51IriX64just noticed it don't know where it first happened
01:33.55IriX64rsync needs a progress indicator :)
01:34.42joevalleyfield--progress ?
01:34.55IriX64too late :)
01:39.09``Erikwhy do you need a progess indictor? go do, y'know, something else... *shrug*
01:40.00IriX64heh im playing with the source tarball does that qualify as something :)
01:40.40IriX64that yes lib is probably my fault mea culpa
01:45.03IriX64what platform has 7.10.0 successfully been built on?
01:46.15brlcadwow, didn't know there was rsync access added myself
01:46.36joevalleyfieldbrlcad, you could use that to back the thing up
01:48.00brlcadi do for the cvsroot
01:48.07brlcadjust didn't know there was user-level
01:48.43brlcador is it the root he's syncing out.. heh
01:49.23IriX64sourceforge says you can *extract that way
01:52.02joevalleyfieldit is whole lot easier to strip X out this time than it was a year and a half ago
01:55.38IriX64somebody already did it for you, it doesn't build :P
01:58.23IriX64found X, it was hiding behind W ;)
02:11.11joevalleyfieldirix, what platform are you on?
02:11.40IriX64no secret cygwin on windows xp+
02:11.50joevalleyfieldok
02:11.57IriX64err pro not +
02:13.24IriX64amd model 3800+ cpu
02:14.33IriX64does everything i want it to shrug
02:16.55joevalleyfieldi've never built on cygwin
02:17.29IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad   pix no 72 some of the things its currently doing
02:18.24IriX64i've probably never built on what your running:)
02:18.39joevalleyfield:)
02:18.44joevalleyfieldmac
02:18.53IriX64as i said :)
02:20.29IriX64runs irssi too but i prefer to just click on a url in the channel window and auto go there
02:28.29*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
02:34.41IriX64rsync pulling source now neat
02:34.54IriX64might stay up tonight :)
02:48.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/README: condense the commercial support information, but credit SURVICE Engineering accordingly instead of the focus on SURVIAC
02:51.35IriX64the blog has a cygwin build of 7.8.4 running on the windows desktop, xwin32 is pretty good... seamless xwindows
03:02.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Obtain.html: stray reference to the old address though it doesn't meantion the old agreement. replace with the same info from README
03:21.40CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (photonmap.c sh_plastic.c): removed the spaced out pointer dereference format inconsistencies
03:25.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/ (photonmap.c sh_plastic.c): ws
03:39.55deltazapIriX64: irssi is the only irc client, really
03:40.09deltazapit's the only one worth talking about ;)
03:40.16IriX64how bout bitchX ;)
03:41.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: use libbu memory management.. there's a bug in here somewhere where a right tree node becomes non-null invalid. also seems to be a massive amount of leakage going on .. stuff not getting free'd..
03:42.18IriX64deltazap: practice what you preach :P
03:44.30deltazap4i4r7s7s5i 8i8s 9t3h3e 10b11e11s12t 2c2l6i6e4n4t 7h5a5n8d8s 9d3o3w10n 11:11P
03:45.00IriX64thats kick material :)
03:45.20bjorkBSDwhoa i just saw colors!
03:45.21deltazaphaha, but it's one line :P
03:46.21deltazapif i had been spamming figlet or cowsay, then it would be controversial
03:46.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: missed a realloc, use calloc where we need it be zero
03:48.14CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: crashes during photonmap raytrace of m35 where right node is invalid
03:48.54brlcad~colortest
03:48.55ibot2c3o4l5o6r7t8e9s10t
03:49.28deltazaphaha
03:50.13deltazapbrlcad: when ever you need testing on your installer for osx, i'm there ;)
03:50.21brlcad:)
03:50.41deltazapand for ruby.  i love me some ruby
03:50.52brlcadI want to get it to just a drag and drop that has just the "unified environment" new interface
03:51.10brlcadelse a folder that has mged, archer, and a shell in the meantime
03:51.34brlcadinstead of the installer that it uses now
03:51.39deltazapyeah, i don't thin kthat will work if you normally need admin access in order to install into /usr
03:52.07brlcadyeah, it wouldn't install into /usr as a drag n' drop
03:53.39brlcadIriX64: for what it's worth, you're pulling the entire history of BRL-CAD
03:53.47brlcadnot just a checkout that will compile
03:53.57brlcadyou'll still have to pull a "checkout" from what you're downloading
03:54.40IriX64can't work from that dir?
03:54.56brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login
03:55.00brlcadcvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
03:55.05IriX64next rsync run i should be able to pull just new/changed files
03:55.10brlcadthose two will get you a current checkout
03:55.31brlcadrsync is pulling the *entire* source history -- the cvs root, not a cvs checkout
03:55.48IriX64you keep all that there?
03:56.06IriX64ill wait and see what ive got
03:56.17brlcadyou could still use what you get
03:56.40brlcadyou're just getting about 20 times more data than you need or will want
03:56.48IriX64ty
03:56.58brlcadi.e. you're downloading every version of BRL-CAD that has ever existed
03:57.31brlcadall versions in each file, not neatly sorted out -- in CVS/RCS format, not in a compilable format
03:57.44IriX64well im a history buff :)
03:58.10deltazapIriX64: ok, ready?
03:58.21IriX64for?
03:58.58deltazapOn feb 20, 2003, what version of brlcad was available and what state was it in.  Please respond in a 5 paragraph format.
03:59.02deltazap:O
03:59.03deltazap:P
03:59.05brlcadjust note that it won't be anything that you'll be able to compile directly, you'll still have to do a checkout -- not hard either, just cvs -d path_to_what_you_rsync checkout -P brlcad
03:59.22IriX64ty
03:59.30IriX64trying cvs
03:59.38brlcadstill probably easier to use the two cvs commands above :)
04:01.22IriX64cvs password?
04:01.29brlcado password
04:01.31brlcad*no
04:01.50brlcadjust hit enter
04:04.09IriX64got it but ill never remebr those commands :)
04:04.27IriX64ill stop rsync
04:05.46IriX64my fav just went by...havoc.asc
04:05.50IriX64:)
04:06.19brlcadibot: cadcvs is <reply>To obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS:  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
04:06.21ibotokay, brlcad
04:06.26brlcad~cadcvs
04:06.28ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS:  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
04:07.29IriX64ty filed
04:14.51*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-255-112-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:23.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/440612   < -- 7.10.0 sourcetarball at work :)
04:24.47IriX64too many hoops to go thru to build it again :)
04:26.31IriX64so next checkout with the same switches will get me just the changed files?
04:28.23IriX64how do you want me to proceed? start from autogen.sh or just configure it?
04:48.40IriX64heh that was easy, no configure :) so ill autogen
04:49.02IriX64now ill shut up lessn i have something to say.
05:41.55brlcadyou don't need to checkout again, you can actually stay directly in sync with the latest
05:42.07brlcadjust run "cvs update" in the brlcad directory that you checked out
05:43.48brlcadit'll update to the latest source every time you update, barring any conflicts that occur from an edit you might make
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10:19.35*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.88)
10:49.42*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.114.180)
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13:16.29smallfoot-back
13:17.26brlcadtoes
13:18.43smallfoot-whats up?
13:19.37smallfoot-from Wikipedia "The user interface is rather anachronistic, more typical of the 80's than the beginning of 21st century. It is hardly usable for an occasional user."
13:22.08smallfoot-i wish there was some CAD that was rediculously simple
13:22.13smallfoot-and rediculously easy to use
13:22.20smallfoot-so i could use it without RTFM
13:22.49docelicsmallfoot-: well, we can save you the time by bringing you back to reallity really fast.
13:22.54docelicThere is no such CAD ;-)
13:24.43smallfoot-hehe
13:29.16clock_smallfoot-: you can learn using BRL-CAD faster than what would take you to earn money for buying a commercial CAD licence
13:35.34smallfoot-license???
13:47.31docelicHey folks how come the binary releases are behind the source code on sf.net page? You need help with building on various platforms ?
13:48.10brlcaddocelic: an understatement
13:48.16brlcadbut yes
13:49.32smallfoot-oh
13:49.44smallfoot-doesnt sourceforge have some compile farm?
13:50.22docelicyes, but not automated afaik
13:50.37brlcadactually, they shut the compile farm down
13:51.06brlcadgetting the compilations themselves isn't generally too bad for any given platform
13:53.05brlcadmoreso the number of platforms and packaging up the builds for some of those systems is often a manual process
13:53.19brlcadthere are some scripts to automate the builds packagings, but they're incomplete
13:53.25brlcadsh/make_*.sh
13:53.39brlcadtied to the main Makefile so that there are build targets
13:54.19brlcadas well as polish like consistently building to /usr/brlcad/rel-#.#.# with symlinks in /usr/brlcad haven't been scripted yet either
13:55.43smallfoot-http://archimedes.incubadora.fapesp.br/portal/screenshots-2/fileMenu.gif/image_view_fullscreen oh this looks nice
14:20.58*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-6.dclient.hispeed.ch)
15:09.40*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16)
15:24.01brlcadwoot, have almost made vers.sh entirely obsolete
16:28.27*** join/#brlcad thomasgruebler (n=557ca7f9@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:28.51thomasgrueblerhallo!
16:30.11thomasgrueblerich hab brlcad auf debian installiert. jedoch weis ich nicht wie ich es ausführen soll. es gibt da einen ordner wo sehr viele ausführbare dateien von brlcad drinnen sind,aber alle durchzuprobieren würde ewig dauern und keine der ausprobierten startete eine gui
16:31.17bjorkBSDauf englisch bitte: http://google.com/translate_t
16:31.40thomasgrueblerhello
16:31.46bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
16:31.47thomasgruebleri hav installed brlcad on debian.
16:31.55thomasgrueblerbut i don't know how to start it
16:31.59bjorkBSDmged
16:33.01bjorkBSDthat's far shorter in english than it is in german.
16:33.01bjorkBSDvery curious.
16:35.47thomasgruebleri go to reinstall it.
16:36.00thomasgrueblerthe newer version
16:39.45thomasgrueblerso
16:39.51thomasgrueblernow i have the newest version
16:39.56thomasgrueblerbut i cannot start it
16:40.05thomasgrueblermged is not possible
16:40.42bjorkBSDwhy not?
16:40.47bjorkBSDit's how i've always started it...
16:41.00thomasgrueblercommand not found
16:41.05bjorkBSDare you using tcsh?
16:41.17thomasgrueblerbash
16:41.25bjorkBSDthen it should be in your path.
16:41.53bjorkBSDor maybe not ...
16:41.55thomasgrueblerwhere is the location of it?
16:41.58deltazaponly if he's added it to his path, or if the debian package adds it
16:41.59bjorkBSDmine's in /urs/brlcad
16:42.02deltazap/usr/brlcad/bin
16:42.13bjorkBSD*/usr
16:42.52thomasgrueblernow it's working
16:42.53thomasgrueblerthanks
16:43.22thomasgrueblerit seems more complicate than autocad
16:44.38thomasgrueblerqhen i want to create an elypsoidor soit writes: no database opened.
16:44.43bjorkBSDit's not a cad program.
16:44.48bjorkBSDas in, 2d-cad
16:44.52bjorkBSDit's a 3d cad program.
16:44.58bjorkBSDcad/cae
16:45.05thomasgrueblerthomasgruebler@SiduxG:~/install$ /usr/brlcad/bin/mgedInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...libGL warning: 3D driver claims to not support visual 0x4b
16:45.17thomasgruebleris written when i start it from bash
16:45.32thomasgruebleri wanted an 3d cad programm
16:45.39bjorkBSDyou found it :)
16:45.50bjorkBSDusing it is a different matter.
16:46.00thomasgrueblerthe first in Linux non cost.
16:46.05bjorkBSDthere're others.
16:46.15thomasgrueblerwhich?
16:46.22bjorkBSDuhhh i forget.
16:46.27thomasgruebler:)
16:46.28bjorkBSDi think it starts with a b.
16:46.43bjorkBSDblender.
16:46.45bjorkBSDthat's right.
16:47.06thomasgruebleri know this.
16:47.19thomasgrueblerbut it cannot draw lines of spezial lenght
16:47.30bjorkBSDi bet it's a user error.
16:47.47thomasgrueblerno it's real.
16:47.51docelic;-)
16:47.55bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
16:48.03thomasgrueblerthere are tweaks to do it but it's mainly an animation programm
16:48.19thomasgrueblerhow can i load an database in mged?
16:49.15bjorkBSDone day i promise i'll write a decent intro tutorial
16:49.21bjorkBSD/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/html/manuals
16:50.38thomasgrueblerok a database is a file
16:51.06bjorkBSDthink of brlcad as you'd think of say, emacs.
16:51.13bjorkBSDlots of really interesting ideas expressed :)
16:51.26thomasgrueblernow i wanted to make an prisma but i killed it
16:51.56thomasgruebleri need something like autocad, proengineer. free for Linux
16:52.17deltazapthis is the closest thing to pro/e for free
16:54.14bjorkBSDthomasgruebler, you can make your own pro/e :)
16:54.20bjorkBSDwith brlcad!
16:54.33thomasgrueblerhow?
16:55.39bjorkBSDwell the sources are open.
16:55.50bjorkBSDit's just a matter of beating into a pro/e shape.
16:55.55bjorkBSD*it
16:56.02bjorkBSDgot a hammer? :D
16:56.37thomasgruebler:)
16:57.07thomasgruebleri know how to programm a microcontroller in C but not how to programm brlcad. and without any kde or gtk lib
16:57.49docelicFor a man who know how to programm a microcontroller in C. brlcad cannot be a problem!
16:58.17bjorkBSDheheheh
16:58.29bjorkBSDthink of brlcad as a microcontroller ;)
16:58.32thomasgruebleri've never programme somthing for pc. but i want to do
16:58.54thomasgrueblerfor displaying data sent from the mikrocontroller
16:58.56bjorkBSDgut. macht du!
17:00.17thomasgrueblerjetzt bemüh ich mich die ganze zeit umsonst englisch zu sprechen :)
17:02.36bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
17:03.39bjorkBSDaber ich spreche nicht Deutsches.
17:04.28thomasgrueblerso it's not your mother language
17:04.37bjorkBSDich hatte ein schone deutsche madchen vor jahren.
17:04.39bjorkBSDnein.
17:05.24bjorkBSDno habla.
17:05.40thomasgruebler:)
17:06.22bjorkBSDsie war wunderbar
17:06.56bjorkBSDund ich var ein schwein 8-|
17:07.00thomasgrueblerwie alt bist du?
17:07.04thomasgrueblerwarst du da?
17:07.42bjorkBSD29 ... and a half :)
17:08.10bjorkBSDTexas.
17:08.35thomasgrueblerhow can i stop brlcad to turn my prisma? it turnsaround when i pressed ctrl+Z
17:09.29thomasgrueblerhelp
17:10.08bjorkBSDhilfe :)
17:10.28bjorkBSDwhen in doubt, turn it off and turn it back on ;-)
17:10.29thomasgrueblerbitte hild mir
17:11.10thomasgrueblerhow???
17:14.44bjorkBSDhmm. i oughta get version 7.10
17:14.53bjorkBSDdo you have 7.8.2 or the newest one?
17:15.15thomasgrueblerthe newest deb from sf
17:15.21bjorkBSDah
17:15.24thomasgruebleri killed the application
17:15.41bjorkBSDthere's no getting around reading the manual on this one, thomasgruebler.
17:16.15thomasgruebleri see
17:16.42thomasgrueblerbut from first view it looks good so i like it
17:17.29deltazaptake your time, read through intro to mged
17:17.44deltazaphuh
17:18.04bjorkBSDEOF, deltazap.
17:18.22*** join/#brlcad thomasgruebler (n=557ca7f9@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:18.28deltazapi thought you could never run out of internet :P
17:19.09bjorkBSDhehe
17:19.50thomasgruebleri killed firefox somehow
17:19.59thomasgruebleri don't know how
17:20.04thomasgrueblerit neverhappened
17:20.08thomasgrueblerbye.
17:20.19bjorkBSDEOF thomasgruebler.
17:20.33deltazapapt-get install irssi
17:20.37deltazapoh darn he left
17:20.39bjorkBSDeek!
17:20.45bjorkBSDpkg_add -r xchat2
17:21.40bjorkBSDi need to deep clean my german.
17:21.50bjorkBSDpara la allemande mamacitas
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18:31.12*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca)
18:34.03IriX64be vewy vewy quiet, we're hunting tk files :)
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18:36.19*** join/#brlcad zapp (n=zap@pool-72-64-253-55.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
18:36.39zappwhoops, kinda...uh...killed irssi there for a bit
18:57.02IriX64anybody wanna tacle a build related issue?
18:57.07IriX64tackle too
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19:51.02bjorkBSDBRL-CAD Release 7.10.0, Build 20070415
19:51.02bjorkBSDElapsed compilation time: 59 minutes, 12 seconds
19:51.20docelicwhich plataform ?
19:51.36bjorkBSDmy computer.
19:51.42bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
19:52.04bjorkBSDit's a freebsd x86
19:52.32IriX64pretty quick if it only took an hour
19:52.41bjorkBSDCPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.20GHz (2193.53-MHz 686-class CPU)
19:52.44bjorkBSDit's a celeron.
19:54.49IriX64finally it found tk8.4
19:54.54IriX64and tcl
20:02.36IriX64bjorkBSD did you use the supplied tcl/tk libs?
21:01.44bjorkBSDIriX64, it was 8.5 wasn't it?
21:01.47bjorkBSDi believe i did.
21:01.54*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177707276.dsl.bell.ca)
21:07.36*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754332.dsl.bell.ca)
21:17.37IriX64yes thank
21:18.10IriX64for me 8.5 is fraught with peril :)
21:19.03IriX64trying with tcl84 :)
21:19.13IriX64looking very good so far
21:20.05IriX64still timing out louipc?
21:21.24louipc_yeah I think I'll have to call my ISP and bitch
21:21.40IriX64sure its not the server?
21:21.48louipcI'm back in action though with a fresh install and a new hard-disk
21:22.03IriX64hah back from the wars eh?
21:22.12louipcyeap because the little light on my modem indicates that the network is down on the isp end
21:22.31louipcand I can't access the internet in any way when it happens
21:22.55IriX64call em tear a strip off after all you're the customer :)
21:24.16IriX64-ltcl84 gotta love it :)
21:25.16IriX64static link but what the heck, whatever works :)
21:26.03louipcif brlcad is the only thing you use it for, sure
21:26.44IriX64huh its a system lib, quite capable of non static linking
21:27.10IriX64i mean brlcad isd linking its stuff statically
21:30.34*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754332.dsl.bell.ca)
21:33.14IriX64lets try this map thing, somebody throw out a function i should know nothing about (don't be a smartypants and say main:))
21:41.55IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/441828  <=== map
21:42.47bjorkBSDshould i install tcl8.5 independently?
21:50.25IriX64bjorkBSD if that's aimed at me, I know nothing about fbsd so can't comment
21:56.55louipcI'd say it's a good idea to have it independently
21:59.52bjorkBSDokay.
23:02.07brlcadFAQ Tip of the Day:  pressing x, y, z, X, Y, Z in the graphics window will send the model spinning.. you press 0 to stop the spin
23:15.11IriX64model? or drawing?
23:18.37bjorkBSDthingamagic
23:21.36IriX64magically bjorkBSD starts spinning :)
23:21.54IriX64i pressed the appropriate keys :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070416

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070416

00:32.10IriX64louipc how big a drive did you invesdt in if you don't mind my asking?
01:09.35deltazapplease tell me i'm not the only one that found out about ctrl-z, then held it down to see how fast i could get the wireframe spinning :P
01:10.20IriX64whats your angle-distance cursor say :P
01:37.22brlcaddeltazap: heh, nope .. i still do that from time to time
01:39.46IriX64some standalones aren't going to work, they rely on Tcl_CreateFileHandler and delete same
01:43.47IriX64part of dg_obj.c if i saw that right
01:45.52IriX64in librt
02:06.58IriX64well doom was fun..... gotta stop playing with that 386 dos machine :)
02:10.37IriX64stereo compiless still going strong
02:10.45IriX64- an s
02:11.44IriX64mmm opennurbs is cpp ill have to browse later
02:19.17IriX64the dgo_blah stuff seems to rely on those tcl functions
02:20.57IriX64bear in mind thats the compile that uses my tcl84, the tcl85 compile is still going on.
02:28.41bjorkBSDexactly how slow is your machine, IriX64?
02:32.43IriX64it crawls along at 2.4g
02:33.30IriX64which means each compile is running at 1.2g right :P
02:34.32IriX64each time you or i type it slows to a crawl :)
02:35.06IriX64a 32 minute install o yowzers
02:36.54IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/442222
02:46.42louipcIriX64: 160GB
02:47.01``Erikhttp://www.worth1000.com/entries/172500/172821yfHE_w.jpg
02:47.55IriX64``Erik i didn't know you were at that party:)
02:48.27IriX64louipc: i got a deal on a 200GB maxtor
02:48.53louipca maxtor is what crashed on me :/
02:54.28bjorkBSDdeal from where how much?
02:54.56louipcI got a seagate for $79
03:12.30IriX64staples, $190 for the 200gigger
03:13.39louipcsata?
03:13.53IriX64ide udma100
03:14.50louipcI guess staples isn't that great for prices eh
03:15.00louipcI went to a taiwanese computer shop
03:15.03louipc:D
03:15.20IriX64don't have such here :)
03:18.24MaloeranSounds expensive for 200gb, especially an UDMA100. Sounds like an old drive
03:20.25MaloeranMy 320gb were the equivalent of 110USD or so
03:20.49IriX64this was 2 years ago
03:21.08louipcnice
03:21.30MaloeranAh right, two years, that explains it
03:22.10louipcI'm starting to get scared that the available hardware will outrun my computer pretty soon
03:23.06MaloeranIf what you have satisfies your needs, why worry?
03:23.07IriX64bwish is needed by who?
03:23.58IriX64Maloeran is the computer comy in it's "seat" :P
03:24.00louipcbecause if something goes wrong I won't be able to find replacement parts haha
03:24.05louipcI'll need to get a whole new system
03:24.17louipcbut that'll be fun as well
03:24.27IriX64sometimes its cheaper to louipc
03:25.02MaloeranAh well, it's rare that something goes "wrong" in a critical component such as the motherboard
03:25.47IriX64quite a few critical parts though
03:25.59louipcthat's comforting to know. I can keep it as an antique hobby system when the time comes
03:26.11IriX64heh like my 386
03:26.42IriX64dx not sx
03:27.19bjorkBSDIriX64, don't you like uhh unix?
03:27.44IriX64i know nothing about it and the learning curve is steep
03:28.04bjorkBSDit's as steep as a level playing field ;)
03:28.11louipcIriX64: not really that steep
03:28.11IriX64:)
03:28.22louipcespeciall now
03:28.25bjorkBSDi'm sure you've used dos.
03:28.31bjorkBSDand it's kinda fun.
03:28.38IriX64dos != unix
03:28.43louipcwell I can't speak for BSD but linux is a lot better than it was 5 yrs ago
03:28.50bjorkBSDeg: i think i just hosed /usr/ports so now i have to figure out how to fix it.
03:28.59deltazapIriX64: learning curve is not that steep
03:29.06bjorkBSDoh trust me, i quickly abandoned linux after first touching it.
03:29.24bjorkBSDthen i was introduced to freebsd.
03:29.29IriX64been thinking of a mac never really owned one before
03:29.40bjorkBSDIriX64, they're x86 boxes now. nothing to it.
03:29.42IriX64thats OSX right?
03:29.55deltazapcorrect
03:30.07IriX64maybe for X-mas
03:30.21IriX64get it right geez Christmas
03:30.26IriX64+s
03:30.35louipcfreebsd seems to use the same installer it did ages ago... I don't get it :P
03:31.42bjorkBSDlouipc, why break it if it works so well?
03:31.58louipcworks like ass for me
03:32.16bjorkBSDhow?
03:32.25bjorkBSDwhat's missing in your installation experience?
03:32.36bjorkBSDi HATE redhat's. and debian i can barely stand.
03:33.16louipcI think it tried to redefine my HDD cylinders, then during the install there were a ton of errors saying it couldn't access a certain file it needed installing from the CD
03:33.36bjorkBSDoh a bad CD
03:33.48louipcnah it was fine I checked it
03:34.06louipcactually I did succeed on a third try or so
03:34.20bjorkBSDmedia problems ;)
03:34.41IriX64or drive problems :)
03:34.42bjorkBSDthe only time i switched from freebsd to debian was when 5 came out
03:34.58louipcthen I went into the system and started up 'vi' which really bothered me. so I said forget it hah
03:35.12louipcyeah I can't really take those distros either
03:35.40louipcI would endorse fbsd before I'd endorse debian or redhat
03:35.47MaloeranThe first run of 'vi' is always amusing for an Unix beginner. "Help! How do I get out?"
03:35.59louipcMaloeran: I've moved on to vim
03:36.00louipc;)
03:36.22IriX64mc helps me....a lot :)
03:36.33bjorkBSDit's even more amusing with ed
03:36.40bjorkBSD'cause all ed will tell you is '?'
03:36.53louipchehe
03:37.15IriX64fond memories of edlin come to mind
03:37.30bjorkBSDIriX64, see? you're that much closer to a unix system ;)
03:37.32bjorkBSDgive it a try.
03:37.39IriX64might
03:37.43bjorkBSDthere're all kinds of gui goodness(and slowness) going on with it.
03:37.58bjorkBSDAND unix has had a gui far longer than the mac or pc has existed :D
03:38.12IriX64will redhat 5.1 tolerate a 200gig disk?
03:38.17bjorkBSDeek!
03:38.20bjorkBSDdon't say that name :-S
03:38.26IriX64:)
03:39.45MaloeranGentoo isn't too bad for programmers who know Linux well, I would never recommend that to an user
03:40.37louipcI figrue if they're going to package old software it's going to be a PITA to get recent stuff going
03:41.21louipcit might be stable but I'm not running a server really... so I conclude fbsd is good for servers uh not so much for desktops
03:41.44louipcdon't all the devs in here use macs as desktops?
03:41.47bjorkBSDlouipc, i use it as a desktop os
03:42.00bjorkBSDthe only time i switch to windows is to watch desperate housewives on abc.com
03:42.13louipcwhy do you need windows for it?
03:42.26bjorkBSD'cause it uses flash9
03:42.40louipcI got that in linux
03:42.45bjorkBSDyeah i know.
03:42.52bjorkBSDit's a little while longer...
03:43.12bjorkBSDbut for everything else, freebsd does it for me.
03:44.17bjorkBSDIriX64, you could try ubuntu
03:44.26louipcbjorkBSD: don't say that
03:44.34bjorkBSDit suckedARSE on my machine for some reason, but it might work for you.
03:44.40bjorkBSDhehehe
03:45.03IriX64im not in an experimenting mood vis vis os's
03:45.10louipcyeah gentoo is decent but gets annoying after awhile having to compile everything
03:45.23bjorkBSDi'm sure but it might save you some compile hell no? :P
03:45.38louipcthat's why I switched to archlinux
03:45.53bjorkBSDwhat's it based on?
03:46.03louipcnothing
03:46.13IriX64this isn't bad i figured a way out of #ifdef _WIN32 now to figure a way out of #ifdef __CYGWIN__
03:46.39louipcit takes ideas from crux, and slackware, and perhaps from fbsd it's been said
03:48.14IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/442288  <--- that magic flag keeps it from setting win32 defines
03:49.27bjorkBSDdon't know crux
03:49.42bjorkBSDbut zipslack was my very very first *nix (tear)
03:50.49louipchttp://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Compared_To_Other_Distros
03:52.31IriX64quite a menu to choose from
03:54.36MaloeranMy first Linux was Linux from scratch, I will never recommend that experience to anyone
03:54.58bjorkBSDaha. archlinux thinks highly of freebsd :D
03:55.12MaloeranI think it took me about a week to both understand how the stuff works, and how to make it work
03:55.26bjorkBSDlinux from scratch?
03:55.29bjorkBSDwhat on earth is that?
03:55.30louipcyeah that would be tough
03:55.56louipcI think it's a good idea to start with a binary distro to learn the basics, then go to a source based one if you're so inclined
03:56.06MaloeranbjorkBSD, installing Linux manually, entirely
03:56.24bjorkBSDhmm. not sure what that means Maloeran.
03:56.26louipchah have you heard of DIY Linux?
03:56.30bjorkBSDno.
03:56.35bjorkBSDisn't that what linus uses?
03:56.37louipcit's even worse than LFS
03:56.50MaloeranbjorkBSD, there's no distribution or installer, you install everything manually
03:57.10MaloeranThat's not hard for someone who actually knows Linux, but for a beginner, it's absolutely atrocious
03:58.26bjorkBSDreminds me of netbsd.
03:58.31bjorkBSDi managed to hose my entire system installing it.
03:58.37bjorkBSDnever again. NEVER!
03:59.06IriX64maybe i should go with my nick
03:59.32bjorkBSDan irix?
03:59.41IriX64:)
03:59.43bjorkBSDyou're gonna have to buy an sgi to go with it.
03:59.55louipcthat's super cool
04:00.17IriX64pick one up on the used market, i didn't say it would be current :)
04:00.29bjorkBSDIriX64, they're not very expensive
04:00.40bjorkBSDjust make sure you buy the correct kinda monitor to go with it.
04:00.45IriX64i have never checked
04:00.56bjorkBSDyou could probably buy one for about 50-100 bucks on ebay.
04:01.24bjorkBSDbut you'll most likely get a machine from the mid-90s
04:01.30bjorkBSDwith about 4 gigs
04:01.44IriX64matters little as long as it runs well
04:01.49bjorkBSDthe more you pay, the nicer it is.
04:02.02bjorkBSDeh. they're annoying as hell in some ways.
04:02.13IriX64fans?
04:02.17bjorkBSDeg: their cc keeps spamming expired license ads.
04:02.36bjorkBSDmine has about 4 fans on it.
04:02.47IriX64heh windows keeps asking me to update my os
04:03.09louipcthey want your soul
04:03.10MaloeranTranslation : Microsoft asking for more money
04:03.35IriX64autoupdate costs?
04:03.44bjorkBSDnah it needn't.
04:03.54IriX64dinna think so
04:03.55bjorkBSDbut i've never paid M$ for anything.
04:04.07louipcI paid for a mouse :/
04:04.08IriX64mea culpa im legal
04:04.24bjorkBSDi think i paid for a book or two from ms press.
04:04.25MaloeranAh, I misread, I thought it was saying to go buy their Vista thing
04:04.41IriX64nah os stuff ie stuff etc
04:04.59MaloeranI paid for a windows 95 CD once. It was my first computer, I was young and foolish then
04:05.20IriX64im no longer young but i am foolish still
04:05.55IriX64bbiab
04:05.58bjorkBSDthe best tool in the world is ataidle
04:06.06bjorkBSDit keeps my harddisk quiet  :)
04:17.43IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/442319    this one is with your tcl/tk
05:07.01IriX64:)
06:52.55IriX64anybody still here?
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13:57.48brlcadwoot, new runtime libraries
13:58.40smallfoot-cool
14:26.01joevalleyfieldi hate platform tests
14:31.12CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: just make librtserver match bu/bn/rt version .. using maj:min:pat is bogus in libtool version-info lingo.
14:42.16brlcadwoo hoo.. new version reporting setup looks like it's working great .. now aside from docs, the version numbers should really just be in one place for all platforms
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16:32.27deltazappro/e is so infuriating
16:36.10mysticmarkshi
16:41.07mysticmarksim using sh for terminal, will i need bash for this to run correctly?
16:45.50smallfoot-bash is the shit
16:45.52smallfoot-everyone use bash
16:46.07smallfoot-bash is the best thing since sliced bread
16:46.34smallfoot-man, if the kids find out you dont use bash, they will be laughing at you, get a grip man, use bash
16:46.40mysticmarksim trying to move to open source modeling systems. Ive used solidworks on win, but am moving to the linux platform
16:47.25mysticmarkswhat dependencies will i need to take care of
16:47.47mysticmarksim using a puppy linux.
16:47.54mysticmarksi like a portable os
16:48.04mysticmarksi should include bash
16:48.17mysticmarksare ther any other libs not in the deb
16:48.22mysticmarksi will need
16:48.25mysticmarks?
16:48.48mysticmarks<PROTECTED>
16:50.03mysticmarkswhat about kernel requirements?
16:52.39mysticmarks:\
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19:11.32IriX64anybody mind if i change my version # to 9.9.9 :)
19:14.11IriX64this one works with XWin32 or XMing too bonus :)
19:24.09IriX64if i uploaded an installed folder with my cygwin build and the dll's necessary to run it would anybody look at it?
19:24.21IriX64ill even include Xming :)
19:32.16IriX64well i don't know, but i been told, if you serve, you'll never grow old (been told not to bother you people too much so i'll shutup now )
19:34.14joevalleyfielddoes the ogl display manager work in you cywin build?
19:34.49IriX64attaches but i can't bring up a frame buffer window, it thinks its there but its really not
19:35.40IriX64i mean fbserv shows up in proc
19:35.46joevalleyfieldyeah
19:35.53IriX64but no display window appears
19:35.56joevalleyfieldwhere did you install to?
19:36.05joevalleyfieldin cygwin path land?
19:36.17IriX64--prefix=/usr/brlcad-7.8.4
19:37.41IriX64heh in windows land exec ls don't work (chuckle)
19:37.54joevalleyfielddoes ln -s work?
19:38.08IriX64just a sec ill bring it back up
19:39.31IriX64no
19:39.53IriX64rt -F:0 works tho
19:40.15IriX64lemme open a database
19:40.18joevalleyfieldi think an error message is being suppressed
19:41.12IriX64huh it said no such command
19:41.21IriX64and exec that no such file
19:41.25joevalleyfieldyeah
19:41.41IriX64got galileo load what would you have me try
19:41.46IriX64loaded too
19:42.01joevalleyfieldlappend auto_path /usr/brlcad-7.8.4/share/tclscripts
19:44.01IriX64did it but i used my windows path
19:44.19IriX64want it pastebinned?
19:44.34joevalleyfieldplease
19:44.43IriX64i know what i should try be right back
19:45.42IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/443385
19:46.45joevalleyfieldi think you should have used the cygwin path
19:46.52joevalleyfieldthen, you'll be able to open a db
19:46.59joevalleyfieldi don't know the command to retry the attach
19:48.48``Erikum, "attach"? :D
19:48.57joevalleyfield:-D
19:50.06IriX64man it still comes up i zapped the dir in /usr and it still runs on the windows side even your lappend thing works
19:51.10IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/443394
19:51.35``Erikhey, irix, wanna see something really neato? try "mged -c" *smirk*
19:52.02IriX64heh ``Erik i'm King Fool ;)
19:52.18``Erik<--likes classic mode more than the tk stuff
19:52.45IriX64heh im a gooey person, just touch you'll see :)
19:52.53``Erikum, pass?
19:52.58IriX64ok
19:53.26IriX64beauty of this is i can still open up a frame buffer
19:53.48IriX64for you classic type, the mged command window is both input and output capable
19:53.53IriX64types too
19:54.32brlcadIriX64: when you get a chance to test it, would you try changing that getvideo -lgl check to be gconfig instead of getvideo .. see if it succeeds or fails the configure test
19:54.45IriX64sure
19:55.04IriX64do it right now lemme restore to a pristine dir
19:55.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: mingw seems to have a -lgl that has at least one of the old irisgl bindings, so try changing from 'getvideo' to 'gconfig'
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20:16.47IriX64you want hard copy or just my report that you got it right.
20:17.05IriX64brlcad its proper now
20:18.30IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/443446
20:22.17IriX64haha keiths tank just rt'ed sweet
20:23.33IriX64thats on the windows side after your lappend joevalleyfield :)
20:25.24IriX64i have no way to get a directory from the command line though
20:26.25IriX64could rewrite d.com i suppose
20:37.07smallfoot-you running IRIX?
20:51.01CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/.cvsignore: ignore the generated pkgconfig files
20:55.06IriX64humph, comes up with XWin32 but Xming bombs go figure
21:05.53IriX64so if i create a usr dir in windereze, then drop brlcad/* in it all the paths should be proper no?
21:07.42IriX64mmm winix ;)
21:10.28joevalleyfieldyou could set the environment variable BRLCAD_DATA
21:10.40joevalleyfieldi think you'd want to use the cygwin style paths
21:10.47joevalleyfieldso /c/... like you did in mged
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21:16.06CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (38 files in 10 dirs):
21:16.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: revamp BRL-CAD's versioning setup. no longer rely upon the vers.sh script,
21:16.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: allowing for a more unified cross-platform configuration. instead of globals,
21:16.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: provide per-library functions that return the version string. the version
21:16.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: numbers are now stored in files in include/conf/.
21:18.16IriX64thats what the app expects so that has to be used but i just want to make sure mged can find all its resources
21:19.08IriX64sitting through a make install right now
21:19.29IriX64brlcad ty
21:28.43CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): remove the vers_win.c files as the globals they declare are no longer used (for bn, bu, fb, rt)
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21:35.57IriX64``Erik... http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/brl-cad     it works in gui mode too :P
21:37.02IriX64but i know you prefer mged -c so it's there too just for you ;)
21:38.57IriX64btw thats on the winderze side of the house and no complaint this time about finding resources
21:40.46IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/443577  works too thats havoc
21:44.57IriX64i was wrong tho 6 dll's not 5
21:51.16IriX64check the blog, photon mapping ala WiniX :)
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21:55.18IriX64too big to fit on a cd tho
21:58.29IriX64works with Xming too and now ill shutup :)
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22:29.55IriX64gonna try it on the other box that doesn't have a cygwin install :)
22:30.10joevalleyfieldyou'll need cygwin.dll
22:30.22IriX64have 6 i need in the dir
22:30.38joevalleyfieldexcellent
22:32.10IriX64btw for the record, i did *not hack up brlcad to make it compile/run
22:32.54IriX64.
22:41.29IriX64not bad 450mgs zipped thatll burn nicely
22:46.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (6 files): use the new brlcad_version() routine instead of vers.sh approach, removes need need for vers.c files
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23:09.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 2 dirs): update to the new version management routines, replace the dm_version global with a dm_version() call
23:22.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove fft's unused version global
23:24.46CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libmultispectral/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove multispectral's unused version global
23:29.02IriX64no dice, ill have to rethink
23:29.51IriX64can't find a usable itcl dunno whats up path or something
23:47.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): update to the new version management routines, replace the liboptical_version global with a optical_version() call
23:52.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liborle/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove orle's unused version global
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070417

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070417

00:01.27*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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00:21.00CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/pkg.h src/libpkg/.cvsignore src/libpkg/Makefile.am): convert version global to a function, remove need for vers.sh script
00:25.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c: report the version number as part of the usage
00:26.46IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/winbrlcad  <----- i've abandonded the other side of the house (for now:))
00:30.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libsysv/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am vers_win.c): remove the unused version global
00:32.13CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libcursor/Makefile.am: remove the unused version global
00:39.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am): remove the unused version global
00:41.26IriX64still works with X-server, opens a frame buffer automagically
00:45.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtermio/Makefile.am: remove the unused version global
00:47.27IriX64huh. joevalleyfield i had activestate tcl/tk installed on the windows side could that be what it wants?
00:50.36IriX64never mind uninstalled it still works here
00:50.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am vers_win.c): remove the unused version global
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01:06.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am ged.c vers_win.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information
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01:09.22IriX64winbrlcad albumn shows just a little of windows archer
01:30.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am nirt.c vers_win.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information
01:36.12CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/ (.cvsignore Makefile.am remrt.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information
01:43.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/ (Makefile.am viewtherm.c): convert over from using vers.sh and the global to using the new brlcad_version() interface to extract the version information
01:46.07CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: remove unused version stuff
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02:34.18louipchmm!
02:49.34IriX64in vmware, but still it's nice to see an old friend :)
03:02.48IriX64blog/photos/stuff  <--- os/2 working
03:24.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (21 files): redo the client-side version reporting to use the new brlcad_version() interface, utilizing a per-binary title as needed, instead of the former vers.sh setup.
03:28.44CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: need to specify a title
03:29.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: consolidate title
04:09.10deltazapwheeee, crashin mged all night
04:10.44deltazapso, scaling a matrix on a region is a dangerous thing, as i have found out
04:13.15louipcdangerous?
04:13.39deltazapcrashes mged if you rotate it after scaling one axis
04:13.48louipcerk
04:14.02deltazapi'm hoping it was a 7.6.6 bug
04:14.43louipcthat's what you're using?
04:15.18deltazaphaven't been able to get any other build working on mac :-[
04:15.28louipcah dang
04:16.39bjorkBSDdeltazap, mac OS what?
04:16.55bjorkBSDi think brl-cad's developed on macs.
04:17.21louipcodd that that's the latest binary
04:17.49deltazapbjorkBSD: 10.4.9, the latest
04:18.11bjorkBSDand it's not working?
04:19.04deltazapnope
04:20.28brlcados x is one of the most frequently tested, one of many actually
04:20.44brlcadand that operation certainly should work
04:21.07brlcadonly case where a matrix edit over a region is known to cause a problem is when something in the region is invalid
04:21.32brlcadstill shouldn't crash thought.. that's report-worthy regardless
04:21.32deltazapyeah, i don't know what i'm doing that's causing it to crash
04:21.50brlcadyou should have stack trace files
04:21.57brlcadin your logs
04:24.06deltazapwhich log?
04:24.34brlcad~/Library/Logs
04:29.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/.cvsignore: ignore brlcad-config
04:29.11deltazaphmm, it's not showing up in the logs
04:29.38deltazapand it doesn't show up when i crash it.  i'll take another look at it tomorrow
04:30.14CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: do need to also set exec_prefix after all -- just set to same for now
04:40.25CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libpkg/vers_win.c libtclcad/vers_win.c): windows version files no longer needed/used
04:44.32IriX64i wonder how hard it would be to convert on the fly? I mean mged has the file name anyway, call ie asc2g close the input file and open the new g file
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12:03.09CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/ (COUNT DATE HOST PATH USER): don't store the files that change in CVS
12:05.13CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/.cvsignore: ignore the generated configuration files
12:17.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: just use CLEANFILES
12:20.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: on second thought, try to prevent a rebuild/relink every pass through .. only update the count after a clean. every pass of make would be ideal, but only we can figure out a way to avoid the dependency check relinkage
12:25.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/vers.c: add libpkg's pkg_version() source file
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12:38.43CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/conf/ (make.vbs Makefile.am): update version information on MS Windows
13:03.25brlcadd_rossberg: wow, that was quick.. :) I was just getting to the Windows build files
13:04.31brlcadi know i broke the build on windows, I was/am setting up my tools now to test/fix
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13:17.59d_rossbergbrlcad: no problem, at the moment i'm looking for a way to have a prebuild step in MSVC (postbuild is easy)
13:32.06joevalleyfieldit's slow as hell, but it's up in aqua/classic mode again!
14:03.35brlcadcool!
14:22.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/conf/make.vbs: host, date, user and path need to e set between quotes
14:33.41deltazapjoevalleyfield: what's that?
14:35.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
14:35.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: aPrep is a MSVC project for preprocessing
14:35.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: e.g. updating version information
14:57.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change data to char and add a "flags" field to the bu image struct
15:04.23CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 6 dirs): remove old version number handling for MSVC
15:11.36*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
15:21.08d_rossbergbrlcad: src/librt/tcl.c needs BRLCAD_VERSION which is not defined in brlcad_version.h yet; do you want me to define it or do you want to change tcl.c?
15:23.58``Erikwow, brlcad broke stuff out the wazoo with that version stuff
15:26.00brlcadhe did?
15:27.09``Erikyeah, I'm looking into it now... something with cppflgs I think
15:29.29``Erikah, got it
16:05.15IriX64hah it built, now to drop it into the windows side of the house
16:06.19IriX64you'll never see an error report from me again, well unless brlcad has something he wants tested, i still have and always will have that cvs checkout
16:09.20IriX64louipc you were compiling, how goes it?
16:21.01IriX64mmm how do you read a man page in windereze though
16:31.52*** join/#brlcad cad98 (n=51d01fd7@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:38.32IriX64Xwin32 is superior to Xming
16:40.07IriX64i dropped the 6 dll's it needs into brlcad/bin and all's hunky :)
16:44.19IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff
16:47.00IriX64urf why did the winbrlcad albumn come up?
16:47.30IriX64try leaving /stuff off and selecting the albumn your self
16:49.11IriX64urf leave photos off too then you'll be able to choose an albumn
16:52.48IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/444962   look to the end of the paste
17:04.35IriX64stuff albumn (BigHavoc)
17:04.49IriX64ill shut up now :)
17:10.59IriX64final note,gonna try winaxep :)
17:27.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: include/ is now a mandatory dependancy due to the new versioning shtuff
17:30.58IriX64it flies with winaxep too (stuff albumn, what my Children did to your havoc :))
17:42.20IriX64still going, btw i'm out of prepared pictures.
17:43.23IriX64if you want a winaxe pix its going to take a while (not that i'm telling you something you don't already know)
17:54.39joevalleyfielddeltazap: mged on OSX without X -- it's more proof of concept than usable though
17:57.00``Erikaqua-tk?
18:19.13joevalleyfieldyeah
18:19.22joevalleyfieldno gl yet though
18:28.10CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: aPrep seems to be a new dir that wasn't added here
18:43.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: brlcad_version.h is in srcdir, not builddir
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18:46.55CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: the brlcad_version.h builddirr/srcdir issue shows up on a couple other lines, too.
18:49.55IriX64winaxep and I have .... well ... issues :L)
18:54.33IriX64this is an -march=i386 build too, trying to cover all the bases.
19:11.00IriX64stuff albumn, proper credit to John Michael Muss
19:38.39deltazapjoevalleyfield: that's still awesome :)
19:43.43*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@84.135.64.23)
20:01.33IriX64joevalleyfield: success man, it was a path thing, it's flying on windowsxp home edition
20:01.58IriX64btw xming (nah) :)
20:07.47*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-202.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:18.26IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/445316  <---  ``Erik that last line is why the -c ;)
20:21.21IriX64i feel like a kid in a candy shop, can't beleive it works :)
20:22.59``Erikuh huh? and pick, y'know, ogl?
20:23.05``Erikor null... or X...
20:47.21IriX64yeah
20:47.33IriX64works if you have them
20:49.01IriX64can't see the sense of putting x support in the native windows build but....
20:52.39clock_Version 9.9.9?
20:52.45clock_Is it 6.6.6 upside down?
20:54.36IriX64next version will be 10.10.10 but yeah you're right it's eveil :)
20:55.45IriX64and ill stick to that to keep confusion to a minimum, no need you guys getting blasted for *my bugs :)
20:57.16``Erik'sok, we blame all our bugs on you anyways ;)
20:57.50IriX64heh i have broad shoulders anyway might as well use em for something good :)
21:06.48IriX64that importfg4section thing, whats the easiest way of seeing who relies on those functions versus who relies on the ones in fast4-g?
21:08.11IriX64should'nt be asking you for help you guys have moved on to 7-10, now theres an idea, can i pirate the appropriate file?
21:11.55IriX64never mind
21:17.39IriX64not gonna play with librt :)
21:23.22``Erikheh
21:25.21MaloeranAh, IriX64 is still acting as strangely as usual
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22:40.40IriX64blog->brl-cad albumn latest build
23:08.28IriX64ok now i have it what do I do with it?
23:19.59*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706746.dsl.bell.ca)
23:47.06IriX64twingy lathe version?
23:47.24Twingynyet, still have a bunch of feature requests to churn through in bugzilla
23:47.41Twingydxf/stl will get done before that
23:48.00IriX64never ends does it
23:48.08Twingynope, that's why I'm in no rush
23:48.18Twingyit's a hobby
23:48.26IriX64mentioned g-cam to ASI dunno if ythey looked
23:48.43IriX64same here hobby wise
23:48.48Twingy*shrug* I don't even check my web stats
23:49.01TwingyI have a 350MB http-access file that probly has all kinds of neat stats in it
23:49.22IriX64heh delete will work wonders on it :)
23:49.38TwingyI've got plenty of disk space, I think I'll keep it around
23:49.47IriX64sure
23:50.05Twingyit would be neat to integrate my path tracer into gcam to render a final part
23:50.38IriX64why not integrate gcam into brlcad as an other
23:50.55Twingybecause gcam has no connection to brl-cad from a code standpoint
23:51.02Twingyand brl-cad is already too big imho
23:51.14IriX64sure they'rer both code:)
23:51.27Twingyif I were doing a freebsd package thing, I'd make it multiple packages
23:51.44Twingyand have it prompt user if they want ray-tracer, conversion utilities, gui, etc
23:52.01Twingyand have it pull from separate tar gz downloads
23:52.45TwingyI wish adrt went that way
23:52.49Twingycause then I could link to it on source forge
23:52.53Twingyas a dependency
23:53.06Twingyinstead of downloading entire brl-cad package for only 0.1% of the code
23:53.24Twingypython not work?
23:53.35IriX64sdl has issues on my system
23:53.41TwingyI threw python and sdl away 2 years ago
23:53.46Twingyit's all gtk now
23:53.51Twingyat least the internal version
23:54.17Twingysean doesn't like gtk, so it probably won't get integrated :)
23:54.25IriX64heh
23:54.41Twingyif you make it tcl/tk he'll put it in
23:55.07IriX64if *i make shouldn't that be you
23:55.24TwingyI don't really see the point
23:55.34Twingythere's plenty of ray-tracers for download that are faster
23:55.49Twingyon a scale from 1 to 10 with all the ray-tracers out there mine is like an 8.5 right now
23:55.59Twingy2 years ago it was a 9.0
23:56.39IriX64i know very little of rt
23:56.48IriX64just use whats there
23:56.52Twingysame here until I decided to edumacate myself when I was 19
23:56.54IriX64in brl-cad
23:57.04Twingyby poking at a sphere tracer and understanding the math
23:57.36Twingyone of the last things I was working on with nurbana was ray-tracing nurbs in 2001
23:57.46Twingyand trimming
23:57.55Twingythen I got into electronics
23:58.32TwingyI enjoy spending half my day in front of the computer screen and the other half building/testing the stuff
23:58.59IriX64note my formal education consists of only a certificate in Electronics engineering technology
23:59.13IriX64that was in 72
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070418

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070418

00:01.18Twingyfinished my first sprocket last weekend
00:01.22Twingyneed to upload pics of that
00:01.23Twingybrb
00:01.30IriX64sure
00:02.09*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782590.dsl.bell.ca)
00:03.36deltazapTwingy: yeah, i'd like to see that
00:06.28IriX6430 days they give you
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00:23.12louipcTwingy: yeah that's a good idea about the modularisation. I think I'll consider it in my packaging quest
00:25.58bjorkBSDfor archlinux?
00:26.04louipcyeap
00:26.26louipcI'm kind of stuck on tcl and such
00:26.40louipcitcl iwidgets blt
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01:27.50IriX64bjorkBSD: what were you trying to get me into? Your favorite *nix ;)
01:28.58IriX64I could try to get you into mine :P
01:48.09IriX64http://IriX32.spaces.live.com/photos
01:52.02IriX64you want to upload anything to IriX64 blog feel free, but i don't know how to let you do that.
01:53.23*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705689.dsl.bell.ca)
01:59.16IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/445738 <--- the shot
01:59.23IriX64that produced that
02:01.24*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:06.11``Eriknaturally, that sequence of cd's could be compacted into ../share/brlcad/9.9.9/db
02:06.19``Erikor you could have done opendb ../share/brlcad/9.9.9/db/havoc.g
02:06.22``Erik:)
02:08.13``Erikalso; the -V option to rt might interest you
02:08.33``Erikas well as the -H one
02:09.12IriX32ill learn as i go hows that
02:10.07IriX32can they be used together ill try now
02:10.52``Erikthey can be used together, yes... -V is for the aspect ration (your screen is probably 4:3, MAYBE 16:9, opposed to the 1:1 you've been rendering)
02:11.16IriX32ty
02:11.25IriX32drew nothing tho
02:11.40``Erikand -H is for hypersampling, combined with the -J flag, it produces much more attractive pictures (super-samples the pixels so aliasing is diminished)
02:12.52IriX32why is it going through the motions but not rendering in the frame buffer?
02:15.02IriX32sorry i rotated it to see it does render mea culkpa
02:15.06IriX32culpa too
02:15.23IriX32rot 90 0 0 sweet
02:15.42``Erikhrmmmmmmmm
02:15.44``Erikerikg@macbook ~$ /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -R -w 800 -a45 -e10 -V4:3 -H5 -J3 -F/dev/Xl -C85/170/200 /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/*/db/havoc.g havoc
02:15.46``Erik:)
02:16.53``ErikFrame  0:     409600 pixels in      6.24 sec =     65619.35 pixels/sec
02:16.53``ErikFrame  0:    2468922 rays   in      6.24 sec =    395529.94 rays/sec (RTFM)
02:16.53``ErikFrame  0:    2468922 rays   in     12.48 sec =    197764.97 rays/CPU_sec
02:16.53``ErikFrame  0:    2468922 rays   in      6.77 sec =    364807.18 rays/sec (wallclock)
02:17.00``Eriknot bad for a laptop
02:17.25IriX32some laptop
02:17.28IriX32:)
02:17.37IriX32the irix32 blog sideshot
02:17.42``Erikmacbook pro, 2.16ghz intel core duo
02:18.20IriX32beautiful, ive toyed with the idea of investing in a laptop, you would recommend such as you have to me?
02:19.23``Erikhave to drop some $'s for one like it... personally, I wouldn't with my own money *shrug*
02:19.36IriX32ty
02:19.37``Erikmy personal laptop is an old ibook, got it for $700 new (was "last years model")
02:19.51IriX32heh like used cars eh
02:19.56``Erikslapped a $100 stick of memory in it and an airport card and it was a decent machine
02:20.18IriX32i don't go anywhere (mores the pity) :)
02:20.40``Erikcomputers aren't an investment, they're an expense... one that is quickly obsolete
02:20.55IriX32too true
02:22.20IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/445759
02:22.37IriX32i always forget to disable jove sigh
02:23.26Twingyespecially when you spill beer on it
02:23.42IriX32the laptop, true
02:31.33``Erikheh
02:31.37``Erikhey, the laptop survived the beer
02:31.40``Erikit was just hung over
02:33.51Twingyjiggle the cable
02:34.41IriX32oh boy
02:35.24IriX32what was it brlcad said about that sysv5 error use -DBSD ?
02:39.35IriX32warning not error
02:52.53CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (Makefile.am vers.sh): remove the old vers.sh script. no longer used now that include/conf is in place along with corresponding include/brlcad_version.h routines.
02:53.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (burst.c burst.h): rely on EXIT_SUCCESS/FAILURE even if it is c99
02:54.32CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fbfade.c fbstretch.c gif-fb.c): rely on EXIT_SUCCESS/FAILURE even if it is c99; use bool_t/1/0 instead of bool/true/false.
02:55.45CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cad_boundp.c cad_parea.c): use bool_t instead of bool until a wholesale c99 conversion is made
02:59.16CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vld_std.h: remove ancient c89 protections, take it as a given
03:05.11IriX32no wonder i don't like cvs, somebody how do i update my cvs tree?
03:09.16IriX32never mind :)
03:15.33``Erik"cvs update" is a hard command, huh?
03:15.49IriX32man. I'm a post :)
03:17.48deltazaphuh, make -j2 was causing problems on my other mac with 7.6.4
03:26.19CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: elapsed wants the build date. this is now stored in include/conf/DATE.
03:55.11IriX32brlcad: was it CFLAGS=-DBSD to clear up that sysv5 mite i honestly cant remeber and i dont log...
03:57.06IriX32ahh sounds familiar ill try it and see
04:03.43CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: distinguish between the full release identifier block and just the version number itself via brlcad_ident() and brlcad_version() respectively.
04:04.26CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (14 files in 13 dirs): brlcad_version() name changed to brlcad_ident()
04:17.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/enumerate.sh: version details no longer in configure.ac, look in include/conf
04:18.29Twingypeanut buttah jelly time
04:18.45Twingycrunchy
04:31.20CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: += operator does not work on older supported versions of automake. expand.
04:38.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: remove reference to BRLCAD_VERSION, create brlcad_data() func as needed instead of using BRLCAD_DATA directly
04:47.50CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): BRLCAD_VERSION is now obsolete, remove all references, use brlcad_version() instead for the triplet.
04:51.04CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: BRLCAD_VERSION is now obsolete, removing all references. now using brlcad_version() instead for the triplet.
05:01.34CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: sort lines
05:31.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/tcl.c: needs brlcad_version.h header
05:41.20IriX32``Erik just how hard is that update command
05:46.33IriX32all that time and i got nothing.
05:47.05CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/tcl.c libfb/tcl.c): need brlcad_version.h header
05:56.51bjorkBSDIriX32? that's almost an abomination.
05:59.41bjorkBSDthe only good irix is a 64bit version :P
06:12.48IriX3242 is only half the answer 84 is the full and correct answer ;)
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06:31.59IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/445985   <---- bjorkBSD: thanks for the switches, prettiest pix i ever saw :)
06:35.29IriX32hahah rot 180 0 0 and im looking at the underbelly
06:37.00bjorkBSDwhich switches?
06:37.18IriX32-H -V -J
06:39.08bjorkBSDyou're welcome but i think your gratitude is misplaced.
06:39.11bjorkBSDi don't remember them!!
06:39.49IriX32you e-mailed them long time ago sorry should have explained
06:40.29bjorkBSDah :)
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10:51.59*** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia (n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
10:52.04LinuxMafiahi all
10:52.19LinuxMafiahow do i run brlcad?
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11:57.29deltazaphaha, oops: *vgr lilliput.local 531.61      545.14  696.20  578.27  547.50  2.95    483.61
11:57.45deltazapi think the 2.95 is when my screen saver kicked in...
12:28.59``ErikLinuxMafia: you probably want to run "mged"
12:29.15``Erikdelta: what kinda "screen saver" are you running??? O.o like, seti or folding?
12:30.51LinuxMafia``Erik, hi there
12:31.30LinuxMafiathis isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black"
12:31.42LinuxMafiathis is what i get
12:36.31``Erikodd, sounds like your X is broken... I'm guessing it tried to query the X color map, and didn't find the definition for black (
12:38.19LinuxMafia``Erik, oh
12:38.38LinuxMafia``Erik, so i have to fix X
12:39.38``Erikthat'd be my "off-the-cuff" guess without knowing any more *shrug*
12:40.08LinuxMafia``Erik, thanks alot or help
12:40.28LinuxMafia``Erik, i there any user manual
12:40.34``ErikI happen to have a /usr/Xorg/lib/X11/rgb.txt that defines all the colors
12:41.12LinuxMafia``Erik, can you paste it some where plz
12:41.12``Erikother apps work ok?
12:41.13LinuxMafia?
12:41.29``Erikum, it's kinda big?
12:43.25``Erik(and I have to go to a meeting in a minute)
12:43.25LinuxMafiaok thanks
12:43.25LinuxMafiai will find it
12:45.56deltazap``Erik: http://ridiculousfish.com/angband/
12:46.14deltazapAPW Borg screen saver that fish put together :P
13:11.44deltazapyup, can't figure out why this geometry is crashing mged without anything in the logs
13:12.37``Erikwhat geometry, what are you doing when it "crashes", and how does it crash?
13:26.43brlcaddeltazap: that's not a screensaver.. the last benchmark image is not normalized to the same reference
13:43.59brlcadjoevalleyfield: ggiterm is what I was trying to remember
13:44.25brlcadcept to mod it and make it use libfb or sdl or something instead of ggi
13:46.33joevalleyfieldbrlcad, thanks, was apple the only platform that required you to link static to tcl/tk
13:46.53brlcadiirc, yes
13:47.02joevalleyfieldawesome
13:47.40joevalleyfieldi'm going to try to augment libtools wrapper scripts
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13:50.07brlcadas part of the build pass?
13:50.24joevalleyfieldmore likely during configure
13:50.33brlcadah
13:50.39joevalleyfieldi'm uncomfortable making up strange build rules
13:50.59brlcadthere's already a hack in configure.ac to fix libtool
13:51.11joevalleyfieldthat's where i should hook in
13:51.21brlcadlibtool's -all_load br0kage
13:51.49joevalleyfieldwhy do we need -all_load to work?
13:52.11brlcadwe don't
13:52.17brlcadlibtool uses all_load
13:52.25brlcadand that is wrong
13:52.31joevalleyfieldah
13:52.42brlcadthey fixed it shortly after in a later release
13:52.48brlcadbut the version the macs ship have the bug
13:52.53joevalleyfielddo you only conditionally patch?
13:53.13brlcadwhat do you mean?
13:53.27joevalleyfieldif it's a new version, do you leave it alone?
13:53.35brlcadah, yeah
13:53.44brlcadbut if it's a new version, it doesn't have the problem :)
13:54.41brlcadif it's a mac (ugh, plat), it does a sed replace on all_load, warning as needed
13:55.09joevalleyfieldsounds good to me
13:55.22joevalleyfieldisn't that in autogen.sh though?
13:55.26brlcadcouldn't say for certain whether all_load is valid on anything else, so it checks darwin
13:55.54brlcadno, the libtool script doesn't exist until after ac_output
13:56.05joevalleyfieldthat makes sense
13:56.05joevalleyfieldok
13:57.14brlcadwhat I didn't figure out is why the DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH setup in the app wrappers weren't working
13:57.43brlcadit specifies the directories to look in, but the binary still tries to load from prefix
13:58.57joevalleyfieldit doesn't specify tcl and tk anymore
13:59.07brlcadque?
13:59.50brlcadyou mean the libs don't do a libadd?
14:00.03joevalleyfieldsince you aren't replacing tcl and tk's build system, it doens't find libtk.la
14:00.17joevalleyfieldit only finds the libtk.dylib and pulls out it's real_path
14:01.05brlcadyeah, but that shouldn't matter with a DYLD set
14:01.26brlcadit's still got search rules
14:01.41joevalleyfieldthe point is DYLD isn't set
14:01.55joevalleyfieldit has itcl and itk
14:02.04joevalleyfieldbecause they still use your build
14:02.14brlcader, you talking about the same thing?
14:09.02joevalleyfieldsure :)
14:36.44CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: map POSIX read permissions in MSVC
14:51.24CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/.cvsignore: stamp-h1 is still autogenerated, ignore
14:55.29``Erikiiiiinteresting, it's refusing to build shared libs for me O.o
15:43.47brlcaddust bunnies
15:43.54brlcadthey're on the rampage today
15:56.25deltazapbrlcad: oh, shows i know how to read numbers
15:57.24deltazaplet me upload my .g file of the geometry i'm locking mged up with
15:59.46*** join/#brlcad agelmi (n=526a0573@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:01.51deltazaphttp://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/8020-25.g
16:05.12deltazapnow, what i did was a matrix select and then scaled x for a distance, then did 'rot 0 70 0', and then Z and redrew the region i was working on
16:06.24agelmihi
16:06.48agelmiwhich is the binary to lanch the program under debian?
16:07.19deltazapmged
16:07.29agelmithank you
16:07.35agelmi:)
16:07.40deltazapno problem :)
16:15.05deltazapwell, it at least brings up a bad matrix error
17:05.20IriX32``Erik shame on you lauging at my toy system ;)
17:05.27IriX32laughing too
17:16.18``Erikno, it looks like the cvs was blown away, then the program was re-imported (so the files were all there, but all the revision history was gone, updates whined about not able to find revision 1.31 or whatever)
17:55.20MaloeranErik, Survice cleaned up all CVS history to remove all traces of GPL
17:55.26``Erikheh
17:55.41``Erikand several changes I'd introduced, and all the history so stuff broke, and ...
17:56.42MaloeranYes, it's a bit messy. I haven't quite understood the point of doing so
17:56.43``Erikwow...
17:56.43``ErikisActive = (isActive == true) ? true : false;
17:56.59MaloeranNeat! Where did you find that?
17:57.47MaloeranI once saw something like :  if( foo & BAR ) foo &= ~BAR;  too
17:58.15``Erikhttp://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/The_Friday_Farrago_.aspx
18:01.06MaloeranNice stuff
18:02.11MaloeranIt's a pity I'm not allowed to share some... interesting pieces of Fortran code too
18:03.07``Erikheh
18:03.13``ErikI may have ya trumped with fortran code
18:31.51``Erikjoevalleyfield
18:33.11joevalleyfieldyo
18:33.21``Erikmy file server, /usr/tmp, there's a present for ya
18:35.50joevalleyfieldsweet
19:05.40IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/446924  < sweet success
19:08.29brlcaddeltazap: matrix select on what?
19:09.36brlcaddid you apply/accept those edits?  a Z cancels any pending edits
19:09.47deltazapaccepted them
19:10.21deltazapthe problem is that for some reason, if you do a scale then rotation, the matrix for that object craps out
19:10.27brlcadooooh,
19:10.29brlcadgot it
19:11.24deltazapthe error is "matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity"
19:11.44deltazapwhich i'm guessing that it doesn't like that it's not at a 90 degree angle to the starting position
19:12.11brlcadyeah, I think the x scaling is a red herring
19:12.19brlcadthe rotation is key.. hmm
19:13.01deltazapalso, is rotobj supposed to do the same as orot?
19:13.32brlcadbasically
19:13.48brlcadthough rotobj has an optional arg to indicate that values are incremental
19:13.48deltazapok, just making sure
19:14.00deltazapyeah, but that would make it function like rot
19:39.15IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
19:39.49IriX32milestone :)
19:41.32``Erikhttp://thedailywtf.com/forums/59028/PostAttachment.aspx
19:44.16IriX32told you ``Erik the real answer is 84  :)
19:45.06IriX32ouch 3.6 fps
19:45.37IriX32shouldn't do this while i'm compiling
19:45.38*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875ffb.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:51.19IriX32``Erik i'm looking at it don't see it
19:52.22IriX32ahh you're passing on to configure tcl
19:53.34IriX32ah and tk and enigma
19:53.55IriX32i didnt' check to see if tcl configured with shared or not let me look in config.log
19:55.25IriX32it did it passed --disable shared to it ``Erik
19:55.54IriX32and enable sysmbols cause debug is set by default
19:55.55``Erikyeah, uh, my statement wasn't about the technical mechanism, it was about why brlcad put it there... :)
19:56.07joevalleyfieldhe did it for mac
19:56.11IriX32turn debug off :)
19:56.14joevalleyfieldi'm working hard to make it go away
19:56.37``Erik:) it's making lib work on a non-mac a bitch hehehehe
19:56.51joevalleyfieldthan fix that line and continue on your way :)
19:57.03``Erik<-- has it commented out
19:57.11IriX32heh wheres the fine adjustment tool
19:58.38IriX32raytrace complete didn't even notice
20:00.38IriX32haha emitting photons :)
20:01.18IriX32perhaps a mac for my birthday
20:02.08``Eriktired of being the only windows user here? :D
20:02.29joevalleyfieldwe need a windows user
20:02.37IriX32not yet, i kind of enjoy being whatever it is I am to you :)
20:02.39joevalleyfieldpreferably one that uses msys to build brlcad from cvs
20:02.44``Erikindeed :/
20:02.58*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:03.01``Erikcygwin with -mno-cygwin should be fine *shrug*
20:03.03IriX32hey i succeded in doing an update today
20:03.24IriX32``Erik still have issues with that but its on a burner
20:04.29IriX32but -mno-win32 works
20:04.55``Erikheh, but we WANT win32, we want to ditch the cygwin/X requirement on winderz... :D
20:05.22IriX32thats for compiling, simply doesn't define standard windows defines
20:05.32IriX32like _WIN32
20:10.33IriX32my way is viable too pick your own xserver for your winderez box
20:11.07IriX32currently running Xwin32 evaluation
20:14.29IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos  <-- I offer proof
20:15.40joevalleyfieldjust because it works doesn't mean its appealing
20:16.34IriX32what if i sugar coat it :)
20:35.48joevalleyfield``Erik: you were smokin Irix32's sugar-coated crack pipe too long
20:38.40IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   the first two pix are from the windows side of the house, your brlcad code and my 6 dll'd
20:38.52IriX32err dll's
20:55.11IriX32scared myself, windows side of the house didn't have /usr/brlcad/bin path set blew up nicely
20:56.25IriX32wonder if i can start it from the desktop.... i'll have to edit system path easy job
20:59.42IriX32beautiful dbl click and its up
21:00.16IriX32assigned a nice little star icon to my baby star mged :)
21:25.54*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
21:27.05*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177706457.dsl.bell.ca)
21:41.30IriX32that was fun whats next :)
21:42.57IriX32gonna make one for march=i386 should cover all (well not mac but...)
21:44.56IriX32if i asked for volunteer to test would i get any takers?
21:45.50IriX32in a channel full of unix people i said that told you i'm a post sometimes :)
21:51.00``Eriksyntax error, does not parse
22:03.53IriX32dumb as a post :)
22:30.21IriX32if we remove the cygwin dependencies it wouldn't be cygwin anymore, I have however removed the dependency on cygwin-x is this not sufficent
22:32.42IriX32i did not hack brlcad to do this
22:33.42IriX32far as brlcad is concerned its running on some *nix platform (but i gotta do something about exec ls)
22:35.18IriX32even with -mno-cygwin you're still tied to the xserver ``Erik
22:38.56IriX32for console apps it works right now
23:38.48*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070419

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070419

00:35.37CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/ (10 files in 4 dirs): framework for a spam bot
00:49.49CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: filter checks
02:26.47*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:11.42CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: host and message filters
03:46.53CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: fixes and a mode to play nice
03:49.54*** join/#brlcad IriX32 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca)
03:59.36IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos       <--- Serious progress
04:13.47IriX32heh real serious, visit again if you like :)
04:20.39IriX32I don't want you guys being blamed for my shody work, so I adopted 9.9.9 and so on as my version system, perhaps one day I'll be able to really contribute.
04:38.38CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/ircCommands.cpp: prevent a crash if the commands are wrong
04:39.00CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: nice mode is now 3 strikes.
04:50.23CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: reg with nickserv
05:55.54*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
06:04.17CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: whitespace, and add better verification to the bot
06:04.49CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: whitespace, and add better verification to the bot
06:17.34CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/ (src/spamBot.cpp vc7.1/spamBot.vcproj): nickserv fixes and making it work in release
06:30.49CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: bug fixes
07:34.19*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:52.28*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:05.11CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: typo, missing underscore on RT_LIBS for binfo
12:32.28brlcaddeltazap: you've uncountered a rather annoying bug, but I think I have found a work-around
12:34.22brlcadthe bug is related to having multiply referenced primitives with various transformations
12:34.28clock_brlcad: is it only for referencing primitives or also for combinations?
12:34.28brlcadif you xpush (either before the edit or before the Z), it'll work
12:35.13brlcadclock_: the bug you reported is slightly related, but different issue.. yours was for either primitives or combinations .. multiple references in a single combination
12:35.52brlcadwhat deltazap uncovered should just be for primitives
12:36.51joevalleyfieldbrlcad: does mged -c with the ogl dm work for you on the mac?
12:36.58joevalleyfieldit's crashing my X11
12:38.45joevalleyfieldthe normal mode works fine and is definately using the ogl dm
12:38.45brlcadi don't have a 7.10.0 to test, but 7.8.0 crashes X11 for me
12:38.45joevalleyfieldgreat
12:38.45joevalleyfieldi'm talking about my own tree and was hoping it wasn't my fault :)
12:38.45brlcadso whatever it is has been in there for a while
12:41.02CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged -c, select ogl display manager, crashes X11 -- tested on os x; confirmed at least back throuh 7.8.0
13:00.01*** join/#brlcad p0g0 (n=pogo@madwifi/support/p0g0)
13:07.43clock_brlcad: can't it be easily fixed?
13:10.00brlcadcan't what be easily fixed?
13:10.54clock_the bugs with multiple reference
13:14.17brlcadprobably, hard to say without digging more deeply
13:14.49brlcadit used to work too -- should be a traceable problem
13:16.04brlcadit's also mged-specific
13:16.24brlcadthe engine doesn't particular care -- it does the right thing
13:26.20brlcaddeltazap: more details.. the bug seems specifically tied to doing both the scale edit with the mouse and the follow-up rotation with the command window
13:26.59brlcadso it's actually not at all related to multiply referenced prims.. just some state inconsistency between the gui edit state and the command window's state
13:55.43deltazaphuh, interesting
13:55.48brlcaddeltazap: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1703625&group_id=105292&atid=640802
13:56.49deltazap:D
13:58.24deltazapi have to say, though, i now understand the matrices a bit more
14:13.17deltazapoh, i'll have a model up later today with my supersecret hidden message for the competition tomorrow
14:20.07*** join/#brlcad space_ninja (n=guiden@81-233-49-201-no58.tbcn.telia.com)
14:20.43brlcadheh, nice nick
14:21.01brlcaddeltazap: cool
14:24.43deltazapalso, the projection shader is neatt
14:24.45deltazap*neat
14:57.45*** join/#brlcad cad41 (n=db4e3fb2@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:58.08*** join/#brlcad cad90 (n=db4e3fb2@bz.bzflag.bz)
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16:11.22*** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot)
17:04.30CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/todo.txt: notes on stuff todo later if needed
18:47.30*** join/#brlcad dli_ (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
18:48.27dli_building brlcad from source messes up installed system tcl/tk libraries. any easy solution? like --prefix=/usr/brlcad/ ?
18:54.33dli_IriX32, I tried --prefix=/usr/brlcad/ , I think brlcad still builds tcl/tk libraries in /usr/
18:54.56IriX32--prefix is for the install
18:55.10IriX32it builds tcl/tk in the brlcad directories
18:55.23IriX32src/other/tcl
18:55.58dli_IriX32, yes, "make install" in that folder
18:56.44IriX32what are you tring to install, the whole thing? just do a make install in thew brlcad root
18:57.09dli_IriX32, " autogen.sh; ./configure <options>; make; make install
18:57.15IriX32yes
18:57.23IriX32use --prefix if you like
18:57.36IriX32if you dont it will default to /usr/brlcad
18:58.10dli_IriX32, everything in /usr/brlcad? I'm worried but messing up /usr/lib64/
18:58.43IriX32should not touch it
18:58.54IriX32everything will be under usr/brlcad
18:59.26dli_IriX32, also, the README file recommends cvs over tar ball. is that still valid?
18:59.30IriX32i have numerous brlcad builds :)
18:59.43IriX32as far as i know yes dli_
18:59.59IriX32tarball=much fun:)
19:00.38dli_IriX32, oh, can I force brlcad to use existing tcl/tk-8.4? so I can expect less library problems
19:01.02IriX32not for the faint of heart
19:01.22IriX32meaning brlcad builds tcl tk for a reason
19:01.31dli_IriX32, thanks
19:01.40IriX32welcome
19:02.11IriX32but they to will be installed in the usr/brlcad dir dli no worries
19:02.15*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:02.32IriX32your system stuff doesn't need to be touched
19:02.51IriX32i dont even set my path, just switch to usr/brlcad/bin and go
19:03.17dli_IriX32, I can set PATH at user base, should be fine
19:03.25IriX32all right
19:04.24dli_IriX32, another question, any chance saying brlcad in a linux distribution?
19:05.03IriX32this i can't answe there are binaries on sourceforge but i haven't visited recently to see
19:06.18IriX32don't know if they are up to date dli_
19:13.10dli_IriX32, just in case, I found I have to patch some tcl/tk Makefiles, in order to "make", the patch: http://pastebin.ca/448580
19:15.00IriX32ahh that doc thing, i worked around it too
19:15.11IriX32*you should file a bug report
19:15.46IriX32i cant cause my system is strange
19:15.49dli_IriX32, you definitely understand this better, please file the bug report
19:16.01IriX32cannot i have a deal in place
19:16.30IriX32its there in activestates stand alone system disros too
19:16.36IriX32distros
19:16.38dli_IriX32, maybe an automake version thing?
19:17.06IriX32happens here to i use automake 8.5 i think
19:17.12IriX321.8.5
19:17.44dli_IriX32, what about 1.9 or 1.10? they both fail ./configure
19:18.04IriX32this i know thsats why i dropped back to 1.8.5
19:18.06dli_while README recommends automake >= 1.9
19:18.32IriX32i go with what works
19:18.40IriX32errr on *my system
19:19.29dli_IriX32, another thing funny, my system is linux, I can see ./configure tests a lot of Windows stuff
19:20.56dli_brlcad, please file the bug report. I go back to work now
19:26.43IriX32dli brlcad has a whole couple of trees for windows compilers
19:40.52IriX32dli... my system is wondows, it tests a lot of unix stuff :P
19:40.57IriX32windows too
19:45.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix parameter bounding, suppress debug statements. yay! untrimmed breps raytrace!
19:48.18CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_cube.cpp: change material back to plastic
19:49.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: perturb a vertex for testing...
19:52.27IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/448637   <--- where's ``Erik  ;)
19:56.12IriX3204/18/2007  02:45 PM        15,739,151 mged.exe
19:56.19IriX32:)
20:31.14*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54875461.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:03.47CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp:
21:03.48CIA-14libIRC: track hostmasks for masters
21:03.48CIA-14libIRC: help on comamnds
21:03.48CIA-14libIRC: stuff to set options
21:03.48CIA-14libIRC: many changes.
21:15.32brlcadnot impossible
21:15.38brlcadjust highly improbable
21:16.26IriX32i know but i can wish
21:16.30IriX32and ride
21:17.01``Erikwell, if you were a gov't employee or contractor with sufficient privileges and a need to have that bit of geometry, ...
21:17.22``Erikuntil then, enjoy the ktank. :)
21:17.38brlcadheh
21:17.59IriX32ktank is next for the blog
21:18.03IriX32soons this compile finishes
21:18.13IriX32the cube is nice too
21:18.29``Erikdid the hilux get all signed off on?
21:18.41clock_IriX32: enjoy the Ronja, or you can even model missing things
21:18.46``Erikor that old russian heap?
21:18.58clock_like 90mm caliber Ronja or the new Plazmatron holder
21:19.02IriX32clock_ thanks
21:19.06IriX32:)
21:20.00clock_How big gun is a 130mm gun?
21:20.02``Erik90mm and a muzzle velocity of 300,000 km/s, pheersome
21:20.39``Erik?
21:20.43clock_``Erik: the holder weighs 15kg, for the recoil
21:20.53brlcadhttp://pastebin.ca/448580
21:20.58IriX32brlcad i didn't look real close but i think he got by that no such file or directory near the end of the install
21:21.15brlcadpresumably those for loops aren't globbing correctly if his patch really was necessary
21:21.25brlcadbut then that patch will break those that are working right
21:22.10brlcadalso hadn't noticed tcl/tk installing outside of the prefix
21:22.21brlcadseems to stay contained here
21:23.08CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: whitelist add/remove functions
21:26.32IriX32stays contained here too ``Erik
21:26.54IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
21:26.57IriX32ktank
21:27.53IriX32should i render it?
21:28.13IriX32btw this is the unix high on windows version :)
21:29.31IriX32if i compile static against system libs i should be home free right?
21:33.04``Erikfor i in $(TOP_DIR)/doc/*.1; do install $(TOP_DIR)/doc/$$i... install /usr/brlcad/doc/usr/brlcad/doc/poo.1 ; ...?
21:39.18CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: include/conf/DATE is generated, so in builddir
21:44.15IriX32Xwin32 is so good i ight spring for it
21:44.21IriX32might too
21:45.01CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/Makefile.am: autogen says blank lines after / is bad
21:46.34bjorkBSDget a bsd box.
21:46.37bjorkBSDit comes with x ;)
21:46.49IriX32so did cygwin ;)
21:46.58bjorkBSDmmm
21:47.06IriX32didn't want to get married though  ;)
21:47.25bjorkBSDhehehe
21:47.37IriX32:)
21:48.06IriX32rendering it now stay tuned :)
21:48.34CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/src/Makefile.am: or just oldcode may not exist=
21:50.20IriX32+ people
21:52.20IriX32waiting on ray trace complete, may be here a while
22:13.41IriX32emmiting photons, who are you kidding :)
22:14.26CIA-14libIRC: 03jeffm2501 * 10libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: when listing the help topics return when done, don't try to find help for a blank topic.
22:15.07IriX32http://pastebin.ca/448850
22:15.56IriX32that sysv5 warning is what was discusssed moons ago?
22:24.10IriX32cp -r brlcad brlcad-7.10.0
22:24.10IriX32crapz sorry
22:40.12IriX32http://pastebin.ca/448885  <---7.10.0 configure no display ? I do have X at least
22:41.45IriX32X11R6 if anybody cares
22:54.20*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-101-137.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:11.32p0g0Hi, I've a linux 2.6 kernel, installed the 7.8.4 deb from sourceforge.  Invoking mged wants glibc_2.4, but no such dependency was reported by the deb.  Should I remove the deb, download the source and build?
23:16.39bjorkBSDbest bet
23:16.43bjorkBSDwhat's wrong with 7.10?
23:16.47bjorkBSDyou don't like new things?
23:17.52p0g0bjorkBSD: you asking me- I'm new to brlcad, and a deb is often a much easier thing to install...if it works.
23:18.13bjorkBSDif. ;)
23:19.18p0g0but I've no issue with building it- I gather that's the sage advice then.
23:19.38bjorkBSDindeedy.
23:19.46bjorkBSDthe packages aren't all out yet for 7.10
23:20.21p0g0I'll scurry of to crank up the compiler now... thanks
23:20.29bjorkBSDno problema.
23:22.18IriX32http://pastebin.ca/448936  <--- i know my system is strange but... other configure scripts can figure it out. (that's tcl/tk script they both report that.)
23:25.10bjorkBSD``Erik, are you  the freebsd ports maintainer for brlcad?
23:35.08``Erikjez, I need to fix the patch, cvs is being gooby about deleted files
23:35.09``ErikI also need to fix the tcl detection so'z I can dep on lang/tcl85 and x11-toolkits/tk85 :/
23:38.27``Erik(whyfor?)
23:39.13bjorkBSDoh i was about to take a hand at doing it when i noticed an 'erik' in the Makefile.
23:39.20bjorkBSDmind you, i've never done it before and since you're here ... :D
23:43.22``Eriktake a hand at doing what? a port update? hehehe
23:43.39``Erikhit pointyhat and look for broken ones owned by ports@
23:44.14bjorkBSDyeah.
23:44.29bjorkBSDbut it looks very hairy with it's ski-mask off :-S
23:46.25IriX32it's what's in it's hand you have to be carefull of :P
23:46.39bjorkBSDwhat? it's only an ice-ax
23:46.51bjorkBSDhmm. a sharp edge.
23:46.55bjorkBSD*backs away*
23:47.20brlcadIriX32: we don't do that ar check, that's all in autoconf's hands -- you'd probably need to reautogen using the latest autotools if you're not
23:47.31brlcadbut there's still pretty much nothing we can do about it
23:47.55IriX32ty
23:48.47IriX32http://pastebin.ca/448986  <--- what'd i do now. (7.10.0 again)
23:48.57brlcadp0g0: yeah, there are several issues with that deb -- there's not a full-time debian maintainer, that was contributed
23:49.28brlcadIriX32: no idea, but it looks somewhat hosed
23:49.38IriX32somewhat
23:49.52IriX32urf ill checkout again :)
23:52.04brlcad``Erik: exactly.. i don't see how adding TOP_DIR/doc fixed anything
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070420

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070420

01:21.05IriX32K-tank delivered (sorta)
01:22.32IriX32photo-shop is really hard ;)
01:22.32deltazapbrlcad: quick question, how i can i change the name of a region or primative and all references
01:32.46brlcaderm
01:33.05brlcadthere's a command for that.. what's it called..  think it's on the cheat sheet
01:33.10deltazaplooking...
01:33.12brlcadmebbie mvall
01:33.30deltazapah, ok
02:08.47CIA-14libIRC: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/ (disabled checkoutlist): libirc is now migrated over to svn. disable access to everything except to CVSROOT.
02:09.03IriX32i stupidly thought windows gl would not be picked up.
02:09.21IriX32your check works :)
02:09.43IriX32gives me grief with if_wgl.c tho
02:09.54IriX32so hard coded it off for now
02:10.08brlcadshould work of course
02:10.13IriX32should
02:11.09CIA-14libIRC: 03brlcad * 10libirc/COPYING: LGPL, test commit
02:12.03IriX32its in libfb
02:14.43CIA-14libIRC: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/ (avail checkoutlist disabled): oop, file needs to actually be named avail
02:15.49CIA-14libIRC: 03brlcad * 10libirc/README: test commit
02:16.13IriX32that was intended for the civilians like me sir :)
02:18.18IriX32http://pastebin.ca/449168 <--- this one however is just a warning but still...
02:23.38brlcadspurious
02:24.32IriX32serious :)
02:29.42CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/pkgconfig/ (11 files): quell spurious/bogus warning about datarootdir being ignored
02:40.26IriX32http://pastebin.ca/449200  < --will this work, not worried about JavaVM at the moment.
02:40.31deltazapbrlcad: will a projection project around a curved surface?
02:45.14*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
02:46.54dlicvs problem, after ./autogen.sh, ./configure found missing Makefile.in
02:47.47brlcaddli: cvs -q update -dP
02:47.49IriX32forgot fi sorry guys
02:47.58brlcadcheck for conflicts if you had an existing checkout
02:48.06brlcaddeltazap: sure
02:48.52dliIriX32, yes, I removed the original folder, doesn't help
02:49.19IriX32uh which makefile.in is missing
02:50.32brlcadusually implies either need an cvs update -dP or there's a line missing from configure.ac to generate the Makefile.in
02:51.11IriX32try ./autogen.sh --verbose
03:20.37IriX32the things i then do to myself/
03:25.05dliIriX32, works?
03:25.42IriX32which?
03:25.55IriX32got several things happening here.
03:26.20dlimissing Makefile.in from cvs
03:27.51IriX32man cvs does not provide makefile.in's
03:28.04IriX32generated by autogen
03:28.14IriX32thats why the --verbose switch
03:35.22IriX32know your system :)
03:37.30IriX32heh it woulda worked if i had jni.h ;)
03:43.55deltazapbrlcad: if you want to take a look at the challenge for tomorrow, it's up at http://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/challenge.zip
03:44.11deltazapgood luck ;) and no cheating by converting the pix files :P
03:44.13dliIriX32, thanks:)
03:44.29IriX32dli welcome
03:45.42IriX32btw dli, i'm no expert, just the resident comic :)
03:46.00IriX32i think ;)
03:48.13IriX32my presence here goes unnoticed
03:50.14dlicvs -z3  -d ":pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/brlcad" update -dP brlcad brlcad
03:50.29dliIriX32, do I pass some ENV to autogen.sh?
03:55.33dliIriX32, config.status: WARNING:  Makefile.in seems to ignore the --datarootdir setting
04:00.38IriX32checking that right now, wait a bit
04:01.33IriX32a compile and a configure running at the same time, needs patience.
04:05.59dliIriX32, I guess it's automake-version problem
04:06.31IriX32hmmm x11 does not appear to be functionaly available still? (i did an update mere 15 minutes ago)
04:06.43IriX32dli wait
04:07.21dliIriX32, using automake-1.10 has no Makefile.in problem
04:08.26IriX32really? i'm using 1.8.5 and the last update i got fixed it looks like
04:08.36IriX32cvs update
04:09.01dliIriX32, good, it's building
04:09.07IriX32good
04:10.06dliIriX32, I updated the tcl/tk doc patch, http://pastebin.ca/449316
04:10.16IriX32ty
04:11.01IriX32man i do not speak make sorry.
04:11.43IriX32brlcad that last did the trick re dataroot dir thingy
04:12.05dliIriX32, what trick?
04:12.32IriX32updating after his last commit
04:12.42dliIriX32, no idea
04:14.12IriX32http://pastebin.ca/449325   <-- summary of plain ./autogen.sh  ./configure
04:14.26dliITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/lib64/itcl3.3/  ITK_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/lib64/itk3.3/  /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
04:15.05dligood
04:15.30dliI want to build a /usr/bin/brlcad (a script to run /usr/brlcad/bin/brlcad )
04:15.52IriX32?
04:16.24dliIriX32, sorry, to /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
04:16.41IriX32just set your path
04:17.09IriX32don't ask me how that's done :)
04:35.41dliIriX32, good, I got cvs running
04:40.19IriX32dli you said you're using archlinux right
04:46.14IriX32txUnixMenubu.c in tk/unix is misssing a #include "default.h"  watch out for it.
04:48.00IriX32break time
04:48.23dliIriX32, gentoo
04:48.35dliIriX32, use automake-1.10?
04:48.52IriX32that fixes it?
04:49.06IriX32whatever works man
04:49.16dliIriX32, yes
04:49.50IriX32guess i should upgrade...someday... but if it's not broken you know...
04:51.26dliIriX32, rebuild to double check the building script
05:04.50IriX32dli, don't follow, autogen works here
05:27.50dliIriX32, I submitted my ebuilds to http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197
05:29.40IriX32good
05:30.07dliIriX32, double checked, it works for me
05:30.37IriX32good mine always did work
05:31.03dliIriX32, gentoo is still mysterious to me :(
05:31.21IriX32life is mysterious to me :)
05:34.44dliIriX32, sure, buddha said there are as many worlds like ours as number of sands in the river Ganges
05:35.40IriX32*I say life is elementary school, how you make out here determines which high school you go to
05:39.23dliIriX32, buddha say everyone has his or her own buddha, and all lives are equal
05:39.58IriX32but the routes to the final destination are various
05:41.49IriX32some take the high road some take the rocky road
05:42.10dliIriX32, there's no such "final destination", giving the multiverse world
05:42.55IriX32ahh i beg to differ, the eternal kingdom is under construction, we're expected to help build it
05:43.56IriX32someday i'll tell you about my golden dream, and my impossible golden dream :)
05:44.06dliIriX32, you can enjoy your world :) and buddha wants to help everyone
05:44.25IriX32it's your world too, live it up
05:44.30IriX32:)
05:45.03dliIriX32, no, since everyone can has a different buddha, not necessarily the same
05:45.39IriX32all names refer to one being
05:46.14dliIriX32, buddha doesn't see an almighty creator for the multiverse :)
05:46.39IriX32you saying your buddah
05:48.29dliIriX32, yes, buddha knows there are other buddhas, so, there's no concept of infidel for him. because there's no non-believers, just other buddhas
05:48.44IriX32was thanking God for something one day, and thought to ask after his day, into my mind pops the word splendacious
05:48.59IriX32i didn't even know that word existed before that
05:49.04dliIriX32, thinking of God leads to religious wars :)
05:49.13IriX32not here
05:50.00dlialso, God is evil and jealous, he punishes you, if you don't believe him, and only him
05:50.13IriX32i'm told the secret is to learn to recognize thoughts that are not your
05:50.25IriX32+s
05:50.52IriX32well i see hellish high for you then
05:51.49dliIriX32, hehe, buddha says, if there's a hell, I should go there, before everyone else should
06:00.48IriX32you should study Gods plan
06:02.16dliIriX32, no, I'm atheist :) but interested why people still killing each other in name of God
06:03.28IriX32in name of God you say, they don't truly beleive in the diety then
06:04.15IriX32the uso show is now over :)
06:07.15dliIriX32, just watched PBS show, "America at crossroad". Most muslim (on the show) are so scary to me.
06:08.14IriX32muslims are people too, should not be afraid of people dli, learn their customs, traditions etc
06:08.37dliIriX32, the show reminds me, Taliban destroyed buddha statues in Bamiyan. No buddhist suicide bombers because of that
06:09.38IriX32if people would communicate, rather than pontificate
06:09.52IriX32such might not happen
06:10.33dliIriX32, you forgot native European born radicals
06:11.19IriX32are you here to goad me or do you really want my help?
06:12.24dliIriX32, no, just thinking about the PBS show, maybe, it's biased
07:17.57*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:53.39brlcaddli: nice work on the ebuild
07:54.15brlcadthe problem that it's going to probably run into is just the complications from using /usr/brlcad
07:55.12brlcadsome of the core guys are not particularly fond of having another big top-level usr dir ala X11R6
07:56.34brlcadand to not put brl-cad into /usr/brlcad, e.g. into /usr, means attempting to resolve or deal with about a dozen conflicts
09:31.44*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
09:36.17clock_brlcad: did you say that pipe is defined by points on it's way and curvatures?
09:53.33*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:17.39*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-2-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
11:17.39*** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia (n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
11:17.39*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
11:31.47*** join/#brlcad cad18 (n=5076b7b6@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:32.14cad18hi all
11:32.40deltazapclock_: yes, it is
11:33.16deltazapthe first and last points radiuses don't matter, but everything else does
11:33.25cad18is brlcad comparable to catia?
11:34.47deltazapcad18: from what i understand, catia is much more indepth into the whole lifecycle of an item.  not only does it do modelling, but analysis and CAM, i believe
11:35.01deltazapbut, it's also much more $$$ :P
11:35.14CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (linkroot.sh Makefile.am):
11:35.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: adding an initial script used to create or recreate the symbolic links in an
11:35.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: installation root directory where multiple versions are retained. the script
11:35.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: currently creates the links in a directory (e.g. /usr/brlcad) to point to some
11:35.15CIA-14BRL-CAD: specified current stable version (e.g. /usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.0). more work
11:35.17CIA-14BRL-CAD: needed to recreate/relink properly still, but it's a start.
11:42.56CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: per e-mail initiated on their end, softpedia would like to be notified when we make releases of brl-cad. particularly for the mac builds, though there is also a linux entry now apparently too.
12:37.34p0g0Hi-is there a simple list of the dependencies required for brlcad- ./configure reports no x11 or opengl, and the compile bombs with "error:x11/xlib.h" -this being an Xorg v11 system, I'd guess I'm hosed... clues?  Manna from on high?
12:38.25clock_deltazap: and how are the curvatures defined? Using one vector?
12:39.25deltazapnope, just a radius
12:40.01joevalleyfieldp0g0, where is your x11/xlib.h
12:40.20p0g0uhmm- with an Xorg setup, I doubt that I have one.
12:40.29p0g0Xorg <>X11
12:40.36joevalleyfielduh
12:40.42joevalleyfieldi'm pretty sure you still have one
12:40.44p0g0I could be very wrong tho
12:40.59joevalleyfieldXorg is just a fork of xfree86?
12:41.03p0g0ok then I'll just need to locate it and get it into the path
12:41.08joevalleyfieldeverything is really the same
12:41.15joevalleyfieldput it in some CPPFLAGS
12:41.37joevalleyfieldCPPFLAGS='-I /path/to/X11dir/'
12:41.59p0g0ok- then I'd guess all I'll need are the headers/source for Xorg...  I'll sort that out
12:42.12joevalleyfieldjust headers
12:42.27joevalleyfieldand libs
12:42.37p0g0then I'd rerun ./configure to get rid of the no X11 , I'd guess
12:42.45joevalleyfieldhopefully
12:43.01p0g0Ok- I'll fool with that, thanks
12:43.10joevalleyfieldnp
13:28.12*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548752c1.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:14.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4 tk/unix/tcl.m4):
16:14.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: remove dependency on __private_extern__ when compiling on darwin
16:14.22CIA-14BRL-CAD: don't hide module symbols on apple; they aren't hidden on other unix platforms
17:22.57CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (9 files in 2 dirs):
17:26.20joevalleyfieldbrlcad, the commit message for that was supposed to be remove dependency on -fpascal-strings when building for aqua
17:30.07joevalleyfieldi imagine it's darn near impossible to hack it in
18:02.29joevalleyfieldi modified the each of the log messages, maybe something more needs to be done to make the changelog happy?
18:52.13``ErikXorg is a fork of X11, usually installed to /usr/X11R6, though I like mine in /usr/Xorg
18:52.22``Erik--with-x11=/usr/Xorg makes mine all peachy
18:56.55p0g0``Erik: tell me more about that-I'm trying to sort out the dependencies in an Xorg (X11R6) setup...I'm not even sure whether the headers I need are to be found in X11-common.  I'd appreciate any datum offered.
19:01.35``Erikfor BRL-CAD? xorg-libraries should be enough
19:02.27p0g0``Erik: thanks
19:03.55``Erikp0g0: which os are you using?
19:04.28p0g0``Erik: on this box, it's a debian offshoot of SID
19:04.39``Erikhum, does X launch? can you use like gnome or kde and get a working desktop?
19:05.27p0g0oh yeah- it's a happy box, kde,  kernel 2.6.18 smp, intel p6 3Ghz...
19:06.05``Erikok, do you have the xlib dev package? like, um, /usr/X11R6/include/X11/Xlib.h ?
19:06.35``Erik(which is what time asked in a case special way)
19:06.47``Erik"special" heh... :D hockey helmet and water wings, yo
19:07.23p0g0that's what I lack- I'd hoped to locate a dependency list, but so far I'm just chipping away missing lib by missing lib.
19:07.44``Erikwell, the dep list for  BRL-CAD is kinda a non-static thing
19:07.53p0g0fair enough
19:08.04``Erikfor what you want, you probably need the X dev package, the png dev package, ummm maybe tcl and tk 8.5
19:08.13p0g0I should be able to locate the -dev .deb
19:08.24p0g0ooh thanks
19:08.24``Erik(notice I'm saying dev package on all of those)
19:08.37p0g0yes, I appreciate the meaning of that
19:14.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/tcl.m4 tk/unix/tcl.m4):
19:14.28CIA-14BRL-CAD: remove dependency on __private_extern__ when compiling on darwin
19:14.29CIA-14BRL-CAD: usually MODULE_SCOPE is defined in tclInt.h. Apparently some OSX files
19:14.29CIA-14BRL-CAD: don't include it so MODULE SCOPE must be defined as extern where it was
19:14.29CIA-14BRL-CAD: previously defined as __private_extern__.
19:41.05IriX32it says found x11 in /usr/x11r6 but then x11 is not functionally available
19:41.18IriX32.
19:41.46IriX32libs are in x11r6/lib
19:41.52joevalleyfieldas always, look at the end of your config.log and see why the test program didn't run
19:42.53IriX32urf ty
19:44.37``Erik"A net is a series of holes joined together with string"
19:45.22joevalleyfieldtubes
19:45.47``Erik<-- meant an omfg real net, not a network
19:46.09IriX32_XNewModifiermap <---- undefined reference
19:46.28``ErikI guess you'll have to use the old modifier map :/
19:46.33IriX32heh
19:46.46IriX32who crafted the new :P
19:46.53``Erikor search your libraries to see which one defines the symbol
19:47.21IriX32man x is fraught :P
19:48.08IriX32suppose i could hard code it on ... but... that wouldn't be in keeping with the spirit of things now would it
19:48.40IriX32i know i have x i know it finds it. ill set libs myself
19:49.38*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:50.35joevalleyfieldthat should work, the source code doesn't appear to rely on XNewModifiermap
19:50.52IriX32ty
19:52.13IriX32your fast joevalleyfield, thanks
19:52.50joevalleyfieldgrep is everyone's friend
19:52.56IriX32heh true
20:00.53IriX32jvf trying something
20:06.08*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
20:06.55IriX32never mind will only work if X is up :)
20:09.54IriX32so... x11_works=yes to the rescue :)
20:12.00IriX32lets see if libs get set right
20:19.20IriX32-L/usr/X11R6/lib  :)
20:29.43IriX32ty building
20:35.35CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (get_outer_shell.cpp brep.cpp add_face.cpp): correct a typo in documentation
20:36.21CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/brep_simple.cpp: correct a typo in documentation
20:37.42CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Add initial (currently untested) support for trimming
20:42.39IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   <--- promised you K-tank last night :)
20:44.21b0efwasn't there an effort to move BRL-CAD to storing floats in double precision?
20:53.12IriX32sphere flake
20:57.03IriX32mmm i mentioned it... better deliver it :)
21:07.32IriX32complex, very slow to appear
21:29.47IriX32http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos       sphere flake and rendering sphere flake
21:31.04IriX32you're probably wondering what I'm doing messing around with 7.10 :)
21:50.43IriX32same blog address , your way combined with my way :)
21:53.42IriX32if i want a fbserv window i just type exec fbserv 2 /dev/X into the mged command window and ...
22:16.54archivistIriX32, test your link before you publish http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos I get an xml error
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22:23.38IriX32whoa sorry
22:24.15IriX32just loaded what you typed, works here
22:24.46IriX32having bwish issues right now tho
22:26.20IriX32its there but it can't find go figure, tk8.5.a that is
23:23.16brlcadb0ef: erm.. for which file type?  the .g files should be packed in double-precision (it's up to each primitive)
23:23.37brlcadthe .asc file format is a bit different, limited only by snprintf settings
23:36.23CIA-14libIRC: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/commitinfo: use the cvs_acls file to read the access rules in the avail file, thanks dtremenak
23:40.05dlibrlcad, if we build /usr/, the problem is that some brlcad libraries, librt libbn, libz will be linked into many other packages.
23:56.21IriX32dli so put it in /usr/local/brlcad  (--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad on configure line)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070421

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070421

00:03.11IriX32if you're going to tie us to -ltcl8.5a ... why all those checks
00:03.27IriX32err -ltcl8.5.a
00:03.42brlcadall what checks?
00:04.10brlcad"-ltcl8.5.a" should be bogus, if i'm not mistaken
00:04.17IriX32for different versions of tcl and when it finds one it refuses it anyway
00:04.28brlcadeither /path/to/libtcl8.5.a or -ltcl8.5
00:05.02IriX32mmm
00:05.09IriX32either way
00:05.11brlcadit only checks for 8.5 and 8.6
00:05.22IriX328.4 too
00:05.36brlcadnot in my configure.ac
00:05.49IriX32ill recheck just a sec
00:06.20brlcad-ltcl is as close as it gets and that's a wildcard really
00:07.38IriX32youre correct
00:08.14IriX32still you give the option is it really neccessary if you're tied to 8.5a
00:13.34brlcadthat sentence does not parse
00:13.53IriX32heh just set the headers and libs and be done with it
00:14.07IriX32you know youre going to build it
00:14.14brlcadnot necessarily
00:14.27brlcadi actually build without it all the time
00:14.28IriX32show me 8.6 :)
00:14.44IriX32ahh to avoid recompiling it
00:14.52IriX32i see
00:14.59brlcadsome package management systems report 8.5 as 8.6
00:15.15IriX32tell them to fix their stuff
00:15.25brlcadit's not broken
00:15.43IriX32reporting 8.5 as 8.6 in bot broken
00:15.49IriX32err not
00:19.15IriX32some systems report 7.10.0 as 7.1.0 ;)
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00:33.10IriX32dli just tested it both tcl and tk honor the --prefix you set to in main configure
00:53.22IriX32heh funniset thing i've ever seen you can set your --build switch to any valid sys type and it configures
00:54.52bjorkBSDdeep nerdish.
00:55.03bjorkBSDno spica
00:55.08IriX32radish actually ... spicy
00:56.57bjorkBSDheheh
00:57.57IriX32you came in late examine http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   (somebody got an xml error on it)
00:58.49bjorkBSDSorry, we are unable to complete your task at this time. The Windows Live Spaces service is experiencing difficulties. Please try your task again later.
00:59.01IriX32urf
00:59.07IriX32ah well
00:59.35bjorkBSDwhat's live spaces n e who?
00:59.48IriX32sorta a super blog
01:00.04bjorkBSDlike yoohoo 360?
01:00.18IriX32microsoft tied it to windows live messenger and an email account
01:00.37IriX32yoohoo to u 2 :)
01:00.57bjorkBSDi see.
01:01.10bjorkBSDjust like that yoohoo thing.
01:01.22IriX32never tried that one
01:02.16bjorkBSDwaste of time, i assure you.
01:02.46IriX32heh i just wanted someplace to post output as opposed to johnny 5's input :)
01:03.45IriX32its been saying 3.95 fps for an hour now
01:16.22dliIriX32, the configure options are mostly from a previous ebuild
01:28.22deltazapdrinky :O
01:29.27IriX32k drinky why is libbu make file looking for tcl in ../../src/other/unix ?
01:29.51IriX32err +tcl
01:33.57IriX32i don't know how to fix this in makefile
01:41.07IriX32hardcoding the path for now
01:41.32IriX32and taking a break :)
01:44.50IriX32that blog has been updated this last shot took over an hour if anybody wants to see it
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18:32.23IriX32mmmm why are we updating brlcad/libtk/tcl8.4
18:33.02IriX32err tk/tcl8.4
18:34.01IriX32doh goof so you have a choice :)
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18:45.14IriX32you know overlooking is such an easy thing.... i totally overlooked the fact that i have two updates going to the same source tree, am i farkled?
18:45.53IriX32multi - tasking strikes again sigh :)
18:46.40IriX32think i'll let both finish and see where I am
18:58.36IriX32brlcad: you wanted me to work from cvs, I took you literally.
19:04.28dliIriX32, any answer to the tcl/tk doc Makefile problem
19:05.07IriX32must needs be addresseed by a higher power, I don't speak make.
19:06.36IriX32did you get libbu to make with that tcl or are you using system lib?
19:07.32dliIriX32, they simply make. no I can not use system libs
19:07.45IriX32must be my system then
19:08.45IriX32build issues, ah well... all's well that runs well
19:19.06IriX32what's going on here, no X no GL, no Windows GL, there's no way thats configures fault
19:29.56IriX32dli.... does it find a display manager on your system?
19:30.58dliIriX32, display manager?
19:31.28IriX32x gl windows gl, does the summary say its building with any of these?
19:36.38dliIriX32, it finds x and gl
19:37.35IriX32ty
19:55.40dlichecking for X11 in /usr/X11R6... found
19:56.02IriX32its the functionality test im failing
19:58.03dlihttp://pastebin.ca/451731
20:01.23IriX32i get that too, its proper there but when it checks to see if it works somethings funny
20:02.18IriX32conftest.exe fails, with undefined functions
20:09.54IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451745  <-- this part is giving me grief, undefined functions
20:10.35IriX32header passes link fails
20:19.15IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451751  < - grok all these but the link fails dli
20:22.53IriX32found it thank you
20:27.18IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451758  <--- changing it to this fixed it here dli
20:46.06IriX32there's a good girl, have a byte :)
21:12.14IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451830  <--- dli I smell good things happening :)
21:18.02brlcadIriX32: stop it, please .. we've had this discussion too many times -- next time you will have voice removed for a week
21:18.40brlcadyour enthusiasm is appreciated, but you have to tame the chatter and non-stop dialog
21:21.56brlcaddli: I looked at your patch, but it doesn't seem to make any sense.. the change should result in the wrong paths (something like /usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.4/usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.4/file)
21:26.23dlibrlcad, that's up to you guys to figure out
21:27.35brlcadwonder if it's related to portage repathing
21:27.39brlcadthis was gentoo yes?
21:29.23brlcaddli: another thing you should be able to do is just make tcl/tk 8.5 a package dependency, in case there are/were patches needed to get tcl/tk to work
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21:36.37IriX32real question, can -DIF_X and -DIF_OGL co-exist?
21:43.31poolioIriX32: I don't see why not.
21:43.57IriX32was wondering, somehow i have both set
21:43.57IriX32.
21:56.14poolioIt make sense, X is the windowing system, and OGL is just a specification
21:56.26poolioor "development architecture" i suppose
22:00.40IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451871  <--- from makefile in src/fbserv ... look for -Lyes/lib
22:00.56IriX32dm_libs
22:04.32IriX32its in there more than once
22:05.06IriX32X_LIBS too
22:07.06brlcadIriX32: yes, there will be an IF_something for each framebuffer interface
22:07.25IriX32ty
22:07.27brlcadand a DM_something for each display manager (and the two have little to do with each other)
22:07.49IriX32so i am busted here with both set i guess
22:09.10brlcadhuh?
22:09.28brlcadone for *each* .. there's no problem having more than one
22:09.44IriX32somehow ive got both opengl and X.
22:09.52brlcadso?
22:10.13IriX32why the error then?
22:11.18brlcadi can't read your mind
22:11.26brlcadyou've not demonstrated an error
22:12.17IriX32the yes/lib in X_LIBS in makefile in src/fbserv my make dies with multiple undefies to x functions
22:12.44IriX32ahh i get it sorry not to have explained the pastebin
22:13.15brlcadI shouldn't need a pastebin explanation.. you should paste the failure, not what you think is causing it
22:13.28IriX32i did
22:13.42IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451871
22:13.43brlcadthen it was lost in the 7 or so pastebins
22:13.43dlibrlcad, I will show you the "make install " error message without the patch
22:13.55IriX32there it is again
22:14.11brlcadthat is exactly my point
22:14.20brlcadthat pastebin doesn't show any error
22:14.47IriX32DM_LIBS = ${top_builddir}/src/other/libpng/libpng.la -Lyes/lib
22:16.25brlcadi see the 'yes' on that line, and that's undoubtedly an issue somewhere, but again.. you've still not shown the build error
22:17.05IriX32X_CFLAGS = -Iyes/include                    ill pastebin the error
22:18.00brlcaddli: thanks, that might help
22:18.15brlcadthough it probably should be simply a dependency instead of building directly
22:19.52IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451903 started with make in the fbserv dir
22:21.45brlcadwhich version is this?
22:25.49brlcadsend me your configure.ac
22:26.18IriX32this is 7.10 got my configure .ac from cvs
22:27.15brlcadsend me your configure.ac
22:27.35brlcadglad to hear you're using cvs now
22:27.58IriX32heh you turned me on to it, thanks
22:28.14IriX32or should i thank you ;)
22:29.27brlcadrun "cvs diff -u configure.ac" and pastebin the entire output
22:33.02IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451931 remeber i dont know if this is proper i screwed it up, im new to cvs
22:33.14IriX32err or screwed it up
22:33.39brlcadthat's apparently not a CVS checkout
22:33.45brlcador you're in the wrong dir
22:33.54brlcadis there a configure.ac file in that directory?
22:34.20IriX32same dir i update from err i update from that but specify brlcad that why?
22:34.47IriX32no output just returns
22:35.06IriX32wnat it pastebinned?
22:35.51IriX32http://www.pastebin.ca/451935   there you go
22:36.09brlcad"i update from that but specify brlcad that why?" <-- don't understand
22:36.26brlcadah, so you were in the wrong dir
22:36.47IriX32is that why i got an message saying no such file
22:36.50IriX32yeah
22:37.11IriX32i update the master work in another dir
22:37.16brlcadyou specified configure.ac .. yet you were not in the directory that had configure.ac
22:37.20IriX32but work in another dir
22:37.22brlcadso .. no such file
22:37.29IriX32right
22:37.54IriX32cp -r is my friend :)
22:38.13brlcadyou can do the diff in either
22:38.17brlcadyou were in neither
22:39.10brlcadwhat is your configure line
22:40.48IriX32./configure --with-x
22:41.32brlcadtherein lies the problem
22:41.43brlcadwhy are you specifying --with-x ?
22:42.01IriX32because thats what i have
22:42.33brlcadthat's not what that option indicates
22:43.02brlcadif you have it and it works as expected, it will be detected
22:43.44IriX32thought i had to specify and that ogl is the default
22:44.06brlcadwe've had this discussion before
22:44.12dlibrlcad, the make install error without the tcl-doc patch: http://pastebin.ca/451941
22:44.42IriX32oh man i honestly have a memory problem forgive me.
22:44.46brlcadIriX32: ogl will be the default unless you use --disable-opengl
22:45.02IriX32ty
22:45.28IriX32ill file that somewhere readily available like i did your cvs commands.
22:47.48brlcadthe with options often require a path, and that's the case for that one
22:48.55brlcadregardless, they still do not generally turn functionality on -- it's used to specify *which* one you want to use, i.e. where is X11 installed if it wasn't a standard location
22:49.39IriX32is standard so it should just detect it if i --disable-ogl correct?
22:49.41brlcadand apologies, not --disable-opengl, --without-opengl
22:49.53IriX32thank you
23:09.14pooliois there a reason you dont want to use ogl?
23:11.55bjorkBSDhe has a weirdo system.
23:16.04IriX32very :) thanks all for putting up with it... and me.
23:17.08brlcaddli: looks like at least a trailing slash is missing
23:17.46brlcade.g. /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcadTcl_Access.3 .. should probably be /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/Tcl_Access.3 or something similar
23:19.14brlcadstill, though .. is there a reason to not make tcl/tk a dependency?  the mods were made specifically to support that for gentoo and others
23:28.10dlibrlcad, show me how to do that? --without-tcl --without-tk ?
23:28.54brlcaddli: it will autodetect and auto-disable if a suitable system version is found
23:29.15brlcadwhich means making it a dependency in portage land
23:29.34brlcadyou can force it off with an option
23:29.45brlcad--disable-tcl-build  and  --disable-tk-build
23:29.55brlcadbut really, if it's all set up right, you shouldn't need those
23:30.11brlcadthey shouldn't hurt either way too
23:32.31dlibrlcad, no, " --disable-tcl-build --disable-tk-build " checking for Tcl library functionality... no
23:32.31dliconfigure: libtcl was disabled, but no system Tcl library was found
23:32.31dliconfigure: WARNING: Restarting configure with additional flags
23:34.33brlcadno? no what?
23:34.57brlcad"no system Tcl library was found" is a problem
23:35.10brlcadif it's installed via a dependency, it shouldn't fail to find it
23:36.25dlibrlcad, I don't understand "installed via a dependency", tcl8.4 tk8.4 are installed
23:37.22brlcad8.4 are insufficient
23:37.28brlcad8.5+
23:38.32dlibrlcad, 8.5 is not released
23:41.30brlcaddli: is there no package for it even in unstable?
23:41.43dlibrlcad, no
23:41.53brlcad8.5 is not stable, but it is released
23:41.59dlidev-lang/tcl
23:42.02dli<PROTECTED>
23:42.27brlcadthere at 8.5a5
23:43.23brlcaderm, I see a reference to an unstable 8.5
23:43.27dlibrlcad, http://www.tcl.tk/software/tcltk/
23:43.30brlcaddev-lang/tk-8.5.0
23:45.16brlcadi'm aware of it's unstable status, we upgraded in preparation for the forthcoming 8.6 and (more importantly) as a means to update the way we integrate their build system
23:47.39dlibrlcad, even if you can make tcl/tk ebuilds for 8.5, those new tcl/tk libraries may also break many packages depends on them
23:48.15brlcadi wouldn't make them.. just seems like others may have already done so themselves in unstable
23:49.01dlibrlcad, no, not even in layman from gentoo-overlays
23:49.24brlcadbizarre references then, hm
23:51.31brlcaddli: that is unfortunate then until 8.6 comes out or until further build changes are made I think..
23:54.12brlcaddli: do you know if there are any patches being applied to 8.4?
23:54.22brlcad(in portage)
23:56.06brlcadi might be able to back-port changes to resupport 8.4 again, but I recall there being some outright interface incompatibilities when the upgrade was performed
23:56.32dlibrlcad, epatch "${FILESDIR}"/${PN}-8.4.6-multilib.patch ,  epatch "${FILESDIR}"/tcl-configure-LANG.patch
23:58.40dlibrlcad, tcl-8.4.6-multilib.patch , tcl-8.4.6-multilib.patch
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070422

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070422

00:00.14dlitcl-configure-LANG.patch , tcl-configure-LANG.patch
00:00.19dlihttp://pastebin.ca/452011
00:00.33brlcadmm.. several patches
00:01.33brlcadthough that configure one shouldn't be a concern
00:02.27brlcadwhat's the multilib one look like?
00:02.38dlihttp://pastebin.ca/452012
00:05.39dlibrlcad, and the ebuild: http://pastebin.ca/452014
00:09.47brlcadhm, that second patch might be significant
00:10.18brlcadah, never mind.. that's mac-specific
00:11.19dlibrlcad, and the one line sed ?
00:11.45brlcadyeah, I just saw that....
00:12.11brlcadthat looks highly significant
00:15.40brlcaddoes your ebuild have that sed line?
00:16.55dlibrlcad, I can add the line, (after autogen.sh?)
00:17.37brlcadafter configure
00:17.47brlcadthat use you pasted is before install
00:18.23brlcadhrm.. actually it's after install..
00:18.29brlcadnever mind
00:19.34brlcadthey did, however, define INSTALL_ROOT and MAN_INSTALL_DIR
00:21.30brlcaddli: I think what will probably work best is if we just make the mods that will let an installed 8.4 system library work
00:22.12dlibrlcad, still need to work out librt, libbn, libz, etc
00:22.21brlcadotherwise I'd be making all sorts of guesses as to what tcl needs to build correctly under a portage setup
00:24.45dlibrlcad, I agree, since gentoo builds packages in sandbox
00:28.33brlcaddo you have a list of the namespace conflicts?
00:28.44brlcadlibraries/binaries that conflict
00:29.20dlihttp://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=109012
00:32.03brlcadhow's that list generated?
00:35.16dlibrlcad, " emerge brlcad; emerge -C brlcad; revdep-rebuild -p ", install brlcad (in /usr/ ), remove brlcad, and find broken dynamic links
00:36.15brlcadlibregex, libz, libpng, and libtermlib are all configurable options
00:36.19dlibrlcad, and those broken links can not be solved by stand gentoo script revdep-rebuild
00:36.35brlcadit would be good to know why they didn't auto-detect
00:37.03dlibrlcad, also, tcl/tk, which can be easily fixed by reinstalling tcl/tk
00:37.11brlcadlibbu, libbn, librt on the other hand.. are more problematic
00:37.27dlibrlcad, you want me post the config.log file?
00:37.30brlcadour libraries are core functionality, long predating those you have installed
00:37.34brlcadsure, that'd help
00:37.38brlcade-mail it
00:38.39brlcadthe entire actual output from configure would help too
00:44.30dliI will have to rerun emerge to get that
00:45.41CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: include the new cpp brep files at least in the dist
01:01.00dli200KB
01:01.05dliwhere do I email to?
01:04.25dlibrlcad, sent
02:06.57bjorkBSDc'mon brlcad, we all wanna send you some good spam!
02:06.59bjorkBSD<PROTECTED>
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04:27.44IriX64make distclean
04:27.55IriX64sorry wrong window
04:38.19IriX64sorry again, this channel doesn't do windows :)
04:38.26bjorkBSDit does.
04:38.34IriX64really?
04:38.37bjorkBSDbut reluctantly.
04:38.39bjorkBSDyeah, through you.
04:39.02IriX64heh mea culpa mea culpa, mea maxima culpa :)_
04:39.21bjorkBSDgood. now are you going to install a unix system or what? :D
04:39.42IriX64thinking of archlinux, good/poor choice?
04:39.56bjorkBSDnever used it.
04:40.02bjorkBSDtry it and see.
04:40.31IriX64have to scrape up new hardware first, i'm *not going to scrap what ive got.
04:40.57IriX64good idea though i'll be able to test my own stuff.
04:42.42IriX64that make bench is rather... interesting.
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19:39.10IriX32old work on the IriX32 blog :)
19:49.29IriX32if i use -march=i386 and -mtune=i386, should be runnable on most processors true or false
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21:40.47IriX32make -i
21:40.52IriX32sorry
23:15.54CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add the list of missing manual pages that jra generated a few years ago -- undoubtedly out of date, but it's a start
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070423

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070423

00:22.47``ErikI hate to say it
00:23.15``Erikbut things like that make me think that kevin braunsdorf (ksb@purdue.edu) may've had a bit of a point with his genration utility :(
00:27.08brlcadgenration utility?
01:00.25IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/453474  <--- this is in tk configure but tcl does it too
01:03.06brlcadany warnings from tcl and/or tk are not our concern
01:03.15brlcadwe just run what they provide
01:03.24IriX64whup sorry then
01:03.49IriX64problem is your stuff depends on it
01:05.11brlcadso report the issue to the tcl folks
01:05.29brlcadthey'll probably tell you it's just a warning and wonder wth you're worrying about it
01:05.38IriX64they'd laugh at my system
01:06.06IriX64but as you say just a warning
01:13.00CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/TODO: updated missing manual pages list
01:15.33brlcadheh
01:20.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
01:20.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: probably don't need to worry about the scripts that retain a script suffix as
01:20.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: they're generally utility scripts that aren't as critical. anything that's
01:20.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: going to be kept long term should probably drop the suffix on install (like
01:20.51CIA-14BRL-CAD: archer, benchmark, brlman, etc)
03:03.29*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca)
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12:16.14``Erikbrlcad: "mkcmd", second thing on http://www.npcguild.org/software/pundits/
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13:09.38*** join/#brlcad cad06 (n=56692689@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:23.38joevalleyfieldbeware the nuke plant
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13:30.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/ (22 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:30.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: preliminary support for unaccelerated mgen on aqua through dm-tk
13:30.58CIA-14BRL-CAD: configure.ac:
13:30.58CIA-14BRL-CAD:  - use two levels of expansion for BRLCAD_DATA
13:30.58CIA-14BRL-CAD:  - enable_aqua configure option
13:30.58CIA-14BRL-CAD:  - move X11 ac_ macro tests from argument check section
13:31.00CIA-14BRL-CAD:  - rely on AC_PATH_XTRA to figure out most of what we need to know about
14:40.04brlcadheh "In fact it might be bad. I wouldn't recommend that you download it or run any part of it. Just read it."
14:40.59joevalleyfieldsounds like a certain opengl tutorial
14:52.21*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548754A5.dip.t-dialin.net)
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15:37.23``Erikcertain ogl tutorial? nehe isn't even worth reading, it's as damaging to ogl programming as basic is to programming in general O.o *duck*
15:38.02joevalleyfieldand he readily admits it
15:40.53``Erikwell, he admits that he isn't a guru
15:41.31``Erikuhhh, there's history there. the #opengl channel on efnet and nehe have... butted heads. and when he stole brinks tga loading code (verbatim) and claimed he wrote it, wooo, we got spun up :)
15:41.42``Erikhe closed his site for a few weeks after that, but came back
15:44.16joevalleyfieldinteresting
17:09.46*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
18:05.05*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601189.dsl.bell.ca)
18:17.20IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/454580 <--- could use some help here on my system "x" fails the test.
19:33.05IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   <--- new wall candy, finally got it going.
19:38.09IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work is easier
19:45.44IriX64graphics is graphics, back to 7.10.1.
19:49.49IriX64mc
19:49.56IriX64your pardon.
19:53.08brlcadneed to see why it failed, not snippets from configure.ac
19:53.20brlcadlook in config.log, find the X11 test that failed
19:53.49brlcadyou can look for the AC_MSG_CHECKING statements in the config.log to find things
19:53.55IriX64already fixed thankyou.
19:54.16brlcadand how was it fixed?
19:54.39IriX64i patched it.
19:54.49brlcadpatched what?
19:55.01IriX64that prefix thing.
19:55.24brlcaddo you not remember what was said just two days ago?
19:55.34brlcad"--with-x11" is wrong
19:55.48IriX64actually i don't i was just looking for help.
19:56.07IriX64X is all i have
19:56.08IriX64.
19:56.09brlcadi'm trying to help, but you're bringing up the exact same issue
19:56.27brlcadand i told you what to do about it already
19:56.46IriX64leaving ---with-x out is no solution
19:56.51IriX64err --
19:57.28brlcadadding it isn't a solution either
19:57.45brlcadit's only if it's no that it'll turn it off, and it is not no by default
19:58.21IriX64but i'm *trying to get an X11 build going here
19:58.28brlcadi understand that
19:58.38brlcadusing --with-x11 doesn't help you AT ALL towards that goal
19:58.47brlcadit actually just makes it worse
19:58.55brlcadbecause that's not how that option is supposed to be used
19:59.02brlcadit's supposed to be a path
19:59.07brlcadit's not an on/off option
20:01.07IriX64noted
20:11.02*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-151.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:19.54IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work
20:25.20*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@adsl-70-130-226-251.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net)
20:27.35IriX64lets say i've done some work on for instance, mged.tcl and you've done a commit of the same file after i've done my work, what happens on a cvs update?
20:29.10joevalleyfieldit helps you merge
20:29.31IriX64really , no need to save and hack?
20:29.38joevalleyfieldno
20:29.49joevalleyfieldif you modified the same lines as the committer,
20:30.04joevalleyfieldthere will be a "conflict" for you to resolve
20:30.13IriX64noted and thanks
20:30.36joevalleyfieldyour modifications will still be in the file though-- it won't delete your stuff
20:31.06IriX64thanks.
20:31.41``Erik'cept hte modifications will be, um, modified :D
20:31.45IriX64:)
20:32.02``Erikcvs is pretty non-destructive, even if you tell it to be destructive (like the AC flags), it'll save the "local" copy to .#file.revision
20:32.30IriX64hope my client is up to snuff
20:32.44IriX64:)
20:33.01``Erikwhich are you using? the cygwin cvs is the same one we all use on unix
20:33.08``Erikwincvs mgiht be different
20:33.09IriX64thats it
20:33.17IriX64no the cyg one
20:33.25IriX64is being used here
20:33.32``Erikthen it's up to snuff. It's the benchmark all others strive to be. :)
20:39.49*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548754A5.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:41.20IriX64question: I made some mods to the cygwin dll's to get this to run with Xming and Xwin32, and it works for winaxepro too, trying to be universal here, who elses windows xserver should i test with?
21:02.36IriX64forgive me, forgot what channel i'm in :)
21:31.15*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
22:26.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1178015006.dsl.bell.ca)
22:28.31IriX64missed the answer to my question, any decent gnu or free xserver for windows platforms out there?
22:43.57IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work
22:44.03IriX64this is with xming
22:44.15IriX64thinking of putting it in the package
22:45.06IriX64exec fbserv 2 /dev/X also works.
22:46.09IriX64that version 9.9.9 was just a test.
22:52.46IriX64oh joy i now have three frame buffers active.
22:54.13IriX64I think XMing is going to be it, I like their price.
23:26.19IriX64if you start a console session in windows land, and type path=c:\usr\brlcad, thats all that's needed (and you have to have brought up X too though), starting it from the desktop requires the path be set properly in system land sigh.
23:26.46IriX64err brlcad\bin
23:27.38IriX64dopped the dll's in bin, works for me.
23:27.50IriX64dropped too
23:36.54IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work    (Both frame buffers active)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070424

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070424

00:06.14*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
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17:36.37IriX64joevalleyfield, you said cvs warns me about conflicts in files, does it mark them in anyway?
17:39.33IriX64ah I see, thank you and never mind.
17:53.56IriX64yours is superior, much thanks.
18:02.05IriX64I used --enable-everything and it died trying to configure enigma with a can't find ./config.sub.
18:03.07IriX64there is no config.sub in enigma.
18:04.02IriX64nebver mind i know what it is.
18:06.54IriX64your X detection is superior to mine thank you for putting it on cvs.
18:08.13*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-60-78.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:05.35IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/456266
19:06.29IriX64line 271 sorry i ommited that
19:08.44IriX64should be fbinterp sorry
19:14.49IriX64check tkimg.h its defined properly
19:15.27IriX64in src/other/tkimg/base
19:18.32IriX64oh man i get it.
19:23.41IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/456301  <--- this patch fixes it here
19:26.56smallfoot-you talk alot
19:26.56smallfoot-but only you talk lol
19:41.13IriX64i got a reprimand for chatting too much though :)
19:48.27IriX64say any chance the windows binaries will be update too?
19:48.34IriX64updated
20:23.21smallfoot-i hope so
20:23.26smallfoot-i made the NSIS installer
20:23.33smallfoot-now someone needs compile 10.2
20:23.36smallfoot-err, 7.10
20:23.45smallfoot-so we can release it
20:32.55IriX64heh so compile it :)
20:33.42IriX64you mean a windoees compile of course.
20:33.53IriX64errr windows
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070425

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070425

01:04.17*** join/#brlcad xcvbcxvn (n=4cbd80ce@bz.bzflag.bz)
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02:48.49*** join/#brlcad tars (n=test@dhcp068-107.openport.buffalo.edu)
02:48.54tarshello
02:49.51tarsi'm new to solid modeling and my school provides copies of Solid Edge V11 to students...
02:50.06tars...I tried to install it, but it won't install under Vista...
02:50.30tars...so I was looking for alternatives and found out about BRL-CAD...
02:50.52tarsI have two questions:
02:51.27tars1) does anyone know of an IRC channel for Solid Edge users
02:52.21tarsand 2) Would someone recommend a set of BRL-CAD tutorials for a new user to start from?
03:02.30deltazaptars: Volume II - Intro to MGED is the only place to start :)
03:03.55tarscool. that's linked from the BRL-CAD homepage, right?
03:05.29tarsoh, I found it there.
03:05.49tarsthanks for the tip =)
03:11.58deltazapyup yup
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03:40.01IriX64joevalleyfield, an attempt at that build we were talking about, trying to transfer it now.
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03:58.05dli../../src/libfb/.libs/libfb.so: undefined reference to `tk_close_existing'
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18:31.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (nmain.cpp n_iges.hpp n_iges.cpp):
18:31.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: Initial work on new IGES converter to support opennurbs breps. Old converter is
18:31.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: quite intertwined with existing BRL-CAD NMG/NURBS code... seemed a bit cleaner
18:31.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: to refactor things somewhat. Currently reads start, global and directory
18:31.26CIA-22BRL-CAD: sections correctly. Just started work on BREP entity parsing.
18:32.31clock_I have a working program to create allen bolts with a real thread :)
18:32.39clock_You say allenbolt M6x50 and it does the job :)
18:32.47clock_It's like shopping in a store ;-)
18:32.54CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: Added compilation support for new IGES converter. May have bugs when opennurbs is not enabled (still need to test).
18:32.58clock_Now I am writing a generic program that will also make hex heads
18:45.30smallfoot-hex heads?
18:59.23``Erikawesome
19:14.02clock_hex heads = the head has 6 sides
19:51.12``Erik<-- thinks of hex heads as allen wrench style... :/ the normal "outer" hex shape is just a "regular bolt head" :/
19:53.27archivistdems socket heads
20:07.33``Erik<interviewee> what do you like most about working here? <reluctant group interviewer> pants-free fridays
20:08.48archivistspecially on da girlz
20:09.00archivistor off the girlz
20:10.08``Erikhttp://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Tales_from_the_Interview_0x3a__A_Perfect_Ten!.aspx
20:15.16archivisthehe good one
20:27.41smallfoot-nice article
21:17.38*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli_@riz-sage.uchicago.edu)
21:25.18*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
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22:23.38joevalleyfieldnames
22:24.54smallfoot-/names
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22:25.13joevalleyfieldyeah, i'm dumb
22:25.31smallfoot-wow, i typed that
22:25.33smallfoot-and i got disconnected
22:25.34smallfoot-bad idea lol
22:25.56joevalleyfield:) strange
22:26.02smallfoot-ya
22:26.08smallfoot-the IRCd flooded me
22:26.09smallfoot-lol
22:33.28CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/include/dm-ogl.h: ogl types are used, gl should be included in this header.
22:41.04CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03joevalleyfield * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm_obj.c libfb/tcl.c): tk_close_existing doesn't exist yet; temporarily remove references thereto.
22:50.42``Erikheh
22:51.37``Erikummmm, /names shows everyone on the network, right? /names #brlcad is how to NOT get flooded off?
22:52.09``Erik/who is safe... (at least on bx, yo)
22:53.31joevalleyfieldirssi \/names was good for the channel
22:57.02``Erikhum, irssi must fake it to avoid the oops of actually complying with rfc1459 on a nontrivial network
22:57.23joevalleyfieldit must
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070426

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070426

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15:33.55smallfoot-Linux Kernel 2.6.21 Released
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18:19.44IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/459804  <--- I'm having trouble at runtime with a libbn magic number check, If I do this for now, am i correct in assuming all the magic number check macros that depend on these will still do their job of initializing whatever but pass the number check?
18:51.05*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no)
19:03.03IriX64thinking of using if!(_ptr) bu_bomb;
19:03.21IriX64err if(!_ptr)
19:05.22*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-5.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:06.22clock_I would use pastebin but pastebin fails with the following error:
19:06.32clock_Query failure: Can't open file: 'pastebin.MYI'. (errno: 145) insert into pastebin (poster, domain, posted, format, code, parent_pid, expires,expiry_flag) values ('clock', '', now(), 'text', 'tgc\(thread_cyl6_0\.541_0\.0416666666667\.s\)\: 1 intersects \!\= \{0,2,4\}\r\n ray\: pt \= \(33\.1649 22\.7157 38\.5456\), dir \= \(-0\.000371362 0\.928038 0\.372486\)\r\n 1\.99\r\ntgc\(thread_cyl5_0\.4328_0\.0333333333333\.s\)\: 1 intersects \!\= \{0,2,4
19:06.57clock_(Note: in case pastebin doesn't work, use pastebin to paste the lenghty error message instead of flooding the IRC channel)
19:07.02clock_So what I wanted to paste:
19:07.14clock_is it normal when I get the following messages when running rt?
19:07.25clock_tgc(thread_cyl6_0.541_0.0416666666667.s):  1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (33.1649 22.7157 38.5456), dir = (-0.000371362 0.928038 0.372486) 1.99
19:07.28clock_tgc(thread_cyl5_0.4328_0.0333333333333.s):  1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (46.7653 22.0771 52.6023), dir = (-0.000470877 0.829158 0.559014) 1.99
19:07.31clock_tgc(thread_cyl4_0.3787_0.0291666666667.s):  1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (49.016 20.3626 59.9144), dir = (-0.000315285 0.246781 -0.969071) -1.96664
19:07.34clock_tgc(thread_cyl4_0.3787_0.0291666666667.s):  1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (49.016 20.3626 59.9144), dir = (-0.000315285 0.246781 -0.969071)
19:08.42clock_Actually I used pastebin to paste the pastebin error message and got the following pastebin error message: Query failure: Can't open file: 'pastebin.MYI'. (errno: 145) insert into pastebin (poster, domain, posted, format, code, parent_pid, expires,expiry_flag) values ('clock', '', now(), 'text', 'Query failure\: Can\'t open file\: \'pastebin\.MYI\'\. \(errno\: 145\) insert into pastebin \(poster, domain, posted, format, code, parent_pid, expir
19:08.49clock_;-)
19:08.57clock_Looks like pastebin is really a useful tool to prevent channel floods ;-)
19:35.48clock_rtweight seems to end up in an endless loop!
19:57.03*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
19:58.01IriX64rttherm is the one giving me grief/
19:58.27IriX64.
19:59.55clock_And I found apparent database corruption in 7.8.4
20:01.45smallfoot-:/
20:02.36clock_http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1708349&group_id=105292&atid=640802
20:02.52clock_It's perfectly repeatable, at least in my case :)
20:03.37clock_I made a file with 10 cap screws.
20:03.52clock_rtweight seems to hang on it, g-dxf runs excessively long so I had to terminate it
20:04.42clock_What does the message "tgc(thread_cyl4_0.3787_0.0291666666667.s):  1 intersects != {0,2,4} ray: pt = (49.016 20.3626 59.9144), dir = (-0.0003152850.246781 -0.969071)", generated by rt on this file, indicate?
20:08.21IriX64a point was found with negative directions
20:08.52IriX64don't mknow much about that sort of thing though :)
20:10.42IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/459997 <--- for my purposes this works, i did the same to the tcl magic check too.
20:18.14clock_Well I can use the brl-cad bugreporting mechanism that allows attachments and largish pastes
20:18.14*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.183.23)
20:18.14IriX64don't worry, i won't pastebin the stack dumps :)
20:31.41CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (BrepHandler.cpp nmain.cpp n_iges.hpp n_iges.cpp): Started work on brep handling infrastructure. will provide user-implemented callbacks for custom application behavior.
20:35.59CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: Add brephandler source file to iges source list
21:16.44``Erikand the tgc error says the ray found one intersection on the way, when all rays should have an even number of intersections (each 'in' should have a paired 'out')
21:18.01clock_;-)
21:18.32clock_is valid maybe in real arithmetic, but not in floating point, where even a==a is not true
21:19.07clock_anyway is the message a bug or should be ignored?
21:19.10``Erik(and a ray can have negative direction, ain't nothing wrong with that... I'd be more concerned that in the paste, the dir seems to be composed of two numbers, not 3)
21:19.42``Erikit indicates a bug, is it consistently reproducable on 7.10.0 or HEAD?
21:19.55clock_I didn't succeed compiline 7.10.0
21:20.03``Erikon openbsd?
21:20.06clock_yes
21:20.13clock_requires some libwhatever
21:20.20clock_didn't require before
21:20.31clock_But I actually didn't read the README
21:20.35clock_just ./configure make
21:20.46clock_may be my fault then ;-)
21:21.22``Erikum, no new dependancies have been added... but it may be doing something gooby with installed tcl
21:21.49clock_im gonna sleep
21:21.50clock_good night
21:45.22*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-061.uchicago.edu)
21:47.57*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177878729.dsl.bell.ca)
21:54.02dliIriX64, does cvs still build?
21:54.56IriX64not for me
21:54.58IriX64.
23:17.49``Erikhttp://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedbackMemberLeft&memberid=tryork5ifp&items=-1&item=-1&de=off
23:38.10smallfoot-o9o
23:38.12smallfoot-llol
23:38.14smallfoot-thats strange
23:42.34smallfoot-how that happen?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070427

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070427

00:19.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871943.dsl.bell.ca)
00:23.38IriX64winaxepro is nice you get to see all the pretty colors in havoc and friends :)
00:35.50IriX64Labf are the makers if anyone cares, says it'll run on Linux too.
01:02.08IriX64err got that wrong, linux stuff on your windows box, is that right?
01:58.02IriX64wy does this happen ---->  http://www.pastebin.ca/460460
01:58.09IriX64why too.
02:01.37Twingyrm -rf autom4te.cache
02:02.33IriX64ty
02:02.55bjorkBSDIriX64, is your system always compiling?
02:03.06bjorkBSDit would be done by now even on a 386 :P
02:03.06IriX6490% of the time:)
02:03.11bjorkBSDhow comes?
02:03.27IriX64different things go on all at the same time.
02:04.47IriX64anything I give you should be considered "produced by beta code"
02:05.41bjorkBSDah so you're 'fixing' it? :)
02:05.57IriX64truth bells ring :)
02:09.19IriX64twingy, doesn't make distclean remove that?
02:16.10IriX64this happens on a ./autogen.sh --verbose  ---- > http://www.pastebin.ca/460476
02:18.19Twingydunno
02:18.40IriX64me either.. can't be important ;)
02:19.59Twingygonna make me some circuit boards
02:20.26IriX64all right a silk screener :)
02:20.39Twingysilk screener would be easy
02:20.49IriX64heh what etch pen then?
02:20.52Twingyjust put in a paint marker
02:20.59Twingy1/16" tip
02:21.09IriX64chisel of course
02:21.40Twingyor cut a stencil
02:21.49IriX64cookie cutter
02:21.50Twingybut won't be aligned perfectly
02:21.57IriX64or at all
02:22.10IriX64mirror image is fun too
02:22.27Twingypcb takes care of all that
02:22.46IriX64what do you use for laying out the board, brlcad?
02:22.52Twingygcam will take pcb gerber and allow you to position then you can instruct the machine to cut out the board on pass #3
02:22.57Twingyno, pcb
02:23.20IriX64never heard of it but then i haven't played with such in a decade
02:23.34Twingygreat little program for making double sided pcb's
02:23.42IriX64sweet
02:23.54Twingyset one side to ground and other side for power and signal
02:24.05IriX64multilayer?
02:24.11Twingythen solder paste and a cheap $30 electric grill
02:24.21Twingymultilayer yes, but you can't mill that
02:24.30IriX64bang you're producing
02:24.34Twingyyou'd have to epoxy them together
02:24.48IriX64guy i know used to send his away to get done
02:24.59TwingyI could probly do 2-layer without a problem
02:25.09Twingybeyond that I think I would just have it manuf
02:25.23IriX64that program do auto-route?
02:25.39Twingyrats nest stuff
02:25.44Twingynot as good as eagle
02:25.47Twingybut it's free
02:25.52IriX64meaning some hands on?
02:25.59Twingygood for laying out small 8-bit MCU stuff
02:26.06IriX64got it
02:26.21Twingymost stuff I do is < 100 traces
02:26.36Twingyone I did last night is ~40
02:26.40IriX64what are you building?
02:26.48Twingywork stuff
02:27.12IriX64if it goes wrong put it in the forge, get your copper back:)
02:27.38TwingyI used to make these with ferric chloride etching
02:27.45Twingythat was just a pain
02:27.56IriX64too much washing?
02:27.57TwingyI still have a liter of it in the garage
02:28.01Twingyit's toxic!
02:28.09Twingyhas a huge jolly rogers symbol on it
02:28.15IriX64heh donate it to someone :)
02:28.18Twingyit'll eat a penny in minute
02:28.26Twingyfun stuff
02:29.01TwingyUV and FeCl etching is waste of time
02:29.10IriX64toululene for cleanup?
02:29.17Twingyorange peals
02:29.29Twingyor lemon
02:29.35IriX64citric
02:29.38Twingyjes
02:30.21Twingywhen you are doing traces < 20mil it's impossible
02:30.37TwingyUV can do 10mil sorta
02:32.05IriX64outta my realm now
02:33.20TwingyI'll probly be working on gerber stuff all weekend
02:33.33IriX64gerber?
02:33.39TwingyRS274
02:33.47Twingyphotoplotting format for PCB's
02:33.57Twingyjust need to make a sexy photoplotter->MCB algorithm
02:33.57IriX64not familiar with that standard
02:34.22IriX64heh tie her in colors
02:35.01IriX64done anymore work on the forge?
02:36.46IriX64back to work
02:39.43TwingyI made a new one
02:39.44*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-34-178-5.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
02:39.52Twingyfar more efficient than last one
02:40.35TwingyI need to put a piece in an cut the rocket motor out
02:40.45Twingyneed to finish gerber first
02:40.55Twingyrocket will need electronics
02:40.59bjorkBSDhow expensive was it, Twingy?
02:41.04Twingywsa what?
02:41.10bjorkBSDnew forge.
02:41.20Twingyheh, it's a bucket and a piece of threaded rod
02:41.39Twingyso like $2.50 maybe ?
02:41.57Twingy30%-40% more energy efficient than last one
02:42.43bjorkBSDdamn!
02:42.46bjorkBSDany pix?
02:43.27dlicvs building fails
02:43.37Twingypicture an upside down bucket with a rod out the top with various slits and cuts from a bandsaw
02:44.06bjorkBSDcool :)
02:44.29bjorkBSDyour own invention or a popular idea i've not come across yet.
02:44.53Twingymy idea cause I'm poor
02:44.57Twingyand I had a bucket
02:45.01Twingyand a piece of rod
02:45.24Twingyand wondered why I even bothered with the bricks
02:52.30bjorkBSDsince it's your invention, some pix would be nice :D
02:52.43bjorkBSD... por favor, ie
02:52.45Twingyit's not an invention!
02:52.49Twingyit's a friggin bucket!
02:52.55TwingyI'll try and take pics this weekend
02:53.01bjorkBSDheheh i know.
02:53.28bjorkBSDit's the mundane easily overlooked things which spark the best ideas.
02:53.35Twingyyep
02:56.42Twingythis cnc mill is the best $1800 I ever spent hands down
03:01.18bjorkBSDa taig?
03:01.32Twingyjes
03:01.43bjorkBSDi'm poorer than thou
03:01.52TwingyI bought it after I sold my town house
03:01.54TwingyI had money then
03:01.56bjorkBSDhah!
03:02.10bjorkBSDi can only afford one of those things after i build it from gingery's specs.
03:02.20Twingyhad enough money for tile in the kitchen, redwood for the living room, and a taig cnc + tools
03:03.00Twingynext summer I'm going to dump a bunch of money into making the front/back yard look nice
03:03.13Twingytoo poor this summer
03:08.18TwingyI need to put in a digikey order soon
03:08.25IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php <--- heh bu_bomb() works :)
03:46.45IriX64man i did it again, pasted the index, urfffff :(
03:51.01IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/460579
03:51.17IriX64ahhhh forget it it's not important
05:52.53*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-94-5.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:21.10*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:23.27clock_brlcad: did you see my capscrews?
08:47.32*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
13:06.41*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p548750b0.dip.t-dialin.net)
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18:41.44*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-62-203.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:06.05brlcadclock_: not yet, been on travel all week, just got back .. be a while to catch up
19:26.18smallfoot-oh
19:26.20smallfoot-welcome back
20:30.01*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871943.dsl.bell.ca)
20:31.38IriX64clock_: where may I see these cap screws?
20:35.31IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work <----- your geometry, but i'd like to include something besides example geometry, and all i can do is a mug :)
20:41.31clock_IriX64: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ the bottommost entry
20:41.43IriX64ty
20:42.05IriX64do you mind if i copy these?
20:42.28clock_they are under GFDL
20:43.06IriX64not familiar with GFDL, explain please.
20:43.46clock_do you know CC-BY-SA?
20:43.57IriX64no.
20:44.02clock_Creative Commons by Share-Alike
20:44.34clock_you can copy GFDL stuff as long as you give people access to the source and if you make a derivative work, it has to be under GFDL too
20:44.39clock_it's basically a GPL for documentation
20:44.45clock_also made by Free Software Foundation.
20:44.49IriX64thought it was some kind of licence thats why I ask, ill give proper credit, how would you like it worded?
20:44.52IriX64ty
20:45.38clock_(c) under GFDL 2007 Karel Kulhavy?
20:46.36clock_are they useful for you?
20:48.22clock_You can also generate yourself some bolts, with this program http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/lib/hex.c
20:48.38clock_link allenbolt and hexbolt to be symlink to the program executable and then run e.g. ./allenbolt M3x40 or ./hexbolt M12x700
20:52.20IriX64id need source (rebuild ala cygwin)
20:52.38IriX64whoa that is source, ijust a sec.
20:53.15IriX64ill compile it latewr let me finish this.
21:00.36IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/twibright    The first page caption points to your page.
21:00.54IriX64they're not in any particular order
21:01.29IriX64had no idea you could do threading in brlcad :)
21:01.52IriX64have no idea period ;)
21:05.51IriX64compiles clean and it runs will run on windows with the cygwin1.dll clock_.
21:05.52clock_oh man the angle dist cursor is awesome
21:05.58clock_IriX64: good
21:06.02clock_IriX64: are you a brl-cad developer?
21:06.08IriX64heh they did a good job on that
21:06.17IriX64nah man i just play
21:07.34IriX64my addiction calls, ill be back after i satisfy the tobbaco craving.
21:24.26*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
21:24.48IriX64gcc -o hex.exe hex.c  <--- results in an exe, no errors no warnings, I like that
21:25.14IriX64should include in external, then just exec hex
21:30.31``Erikhttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/files/no-pony-for-you.jpg
21:33.51IriX64they never heard of my little pony?
21:43.48clock_The mged already corrupted itself the database in a way that even restarting mged doesn't fix it:
21:43.51clock_Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...db_dircheck: Duplicate of '', given temporary name 'A_'
21:43.54clock_db_dircheck: Duplicate of '', given temporary name 'A_'
21:43.57clock_db_dircheck: Duplicate of '', given temporary name 'A_'
21:44.00clock_Done
21:44.16clock_How can I get rid of it? The database operations now randomly fail with nonsensical messages, I cannot replace a too thick M8 screw with a good M8 screw.
21:48.03brlcadeither g2asc && asc2g or do a keep in mged of the pieces that are okay or export or convert .. depends on the nature of the corruption
21:49.04clock_now I exported into ascii and cannot reimport
21:49.46clock_says Error: Temporary file (./_asc_2_g_temp_) is in the way (rename, delete or move it)
21:50.37brlcadremove the temp file
21:50.46brlcadunless that's what you actually named it
21:51.27clock_When I remove it and import, mged just disappears and mged.core appears
21:51.32clock_is that intended behaviour?
21:51.40brlcadhuh?
21:51.44brlcadwhat are you doing?
21:51.47clock_The binary data are saved into mged.core instead of perpend.g?
21:51.56clock_1) make sure perpend.g doesn't exist
21:52.01clock_2) mged perpend.g, create yes
21:52.06clock_3) import perpend.asc
21:52.20clock_that's all folks
21:52.36brlcadah
21:52.55brlcadthat wasn't one of the approaches I mentioned :)
21:53.09brlcadrun asc2g
21:53.11clock_how do I make perpend.g from perpend.asc?
21:53.31brlcadthis is failure recovery, have to see the output, make sure it can succeed
21:53.50brlcadlikewise if there were any errors during g2asc, that would be very important
21:53.53clock_couldn't the mged remove temp files when segfaulting?
21:54.01clock_Or, generate unique temp filenames?
21:54.16clock_Or instead of bugging with the annoying temp filename existing message, just silently delete the file himself?
21:54.30clock_alias mged="rm *temp*; mged"
21:55.07brlcadit could do a lot of things, though potentially deleting user data wouldn't likely ever be one of them
21:55.14clock_OMG I made it
21:55.30clock_after several segfaults and database corruptions, I MANAGED TO REPLACE 3 SCREWS!
21:57.01clock_OK, g2asc and asc2g is the magic anti-mged cure :)
21:57.54brlcadnot always, but it's often a means to recover from an intentional or unintentional error
21:58.35brlcadnot a "standard operating procedure" in the least though.. you obviously encountered at least one critical bug somewhere along the way
21:58.47brlcadwhatever corrupted the database in the first place
21:58.48clock_"" duplicate, renaming to "A_" also funny ;-)
21:59.15clock_when I encounter a critical amount of critical bugs I stop sending bugreports ;-)
21:59.28brlcadsomehow the database contains a geometry object that has an empty name
21:59.46clock_casuse I just want my data and cannot spend 15 minutes collecting stacktraces every 5 minutes
22:00.43brlcadthey also have to generally be fully repeatable to get fixed, and db corruptions rarely ever are (they're generally exceptionally rare)
22:00.43clock_or did you already run out of my stacktraces and need a batch of fresh ones? :)
22:01.14brlcadyou're certainly getting there ;)
22:01.33clock_also those 0.0000mm overlaps are funny
22:01.42clock_and it makes glitches in the screw pictures at coordinate zero
22:02.09clock_floating point arithmetics a.k.a. the fish was sooooo big ... no wait ... sooooooooooooo big
22:03.36clock_rtweight seems to hang on the treads and g2dxf seems to run excessively long
22:03.46clock_threads not treads
22:05.22brlcadi would expect g-dxf to take a long time on the threaded models, they're also undoubtedly smaller than the tessellation tolerance
22:05.42clock_Wanna a reproducible bang? I send you perpend.asc and it should bang mged 7.8.4
22:06.01brlcadhowso?
22:06.09brlcadon File -> Import?
22:06.09clock_what's your e-mail?
22:06.12clock_yes
22:06.45brlcadsure, send it over -- send it to bugs at brlcad dot org
22:07.48clock_OK sent
22:07.52clock_do you get that e-mail?
22:08.01clock_Can you try? Do you have 7.8.4?
22:08.09clock_Or you can try with whatever version, what happens :)
23:11.02*** join/#brlcad cad80 (n=4b03e966@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:12.54smallfoot-brlcad, when is next win32 binary release getting done?
23:26.46*** join/#brlcad cad47 (n=3e2f2890@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:57.09IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff    <----- frame buffer support works
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070428

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070428

00:01.35IriX64that was done with the cygwin dll's and your unix code, xserver courtesy cygwin-x carved out and turned into a windows x-server
00:56.10IriX64you do realize all this stuff is stubbed till i get the dll's up to snuff?
00:56.52IriX64pix courtesy of the national archives :)
01:10.11IriX64well not all stubs.
02:13.13*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:00.00*** join/#brlcad dli_ (n=dli@adsl-75-34-3-5.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
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14:16.43*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no)
15:11.34CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: tom reported that the units command in mged doesn't work
15:13.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
15:13.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: fixed versioning issue throughout package where the vers.c files could be out of
15:13.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: sync if you updated the main version number without doing a clean or export.
15:13.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: now all the version numbers collectively pull from the same file(s) in
15:13.20CIA-22BRL-CAD: include/conf/.
15:21.33*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
16:50.19*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-61-92.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:11.36*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
18:11.37*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
18:29.44*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Elperion@p54877E21.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:44.01*** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot)
20:18.18*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871943.dsl.bell.ca)
20:18.19IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/463163 <------ clock_, get them to put it in external
20:25.45IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/work       <----- bldg391
20:29.33IriX64thanks to brlcad for the secret to that nice 10 warning, it's gone.
20:33.28*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:33.28*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
20:46.39IriX64looks like i'm tied to cygwin-x.
20:47.19IriX64the others, they bring up the geometry but not the rt output
22:12.09IriX64burn this to cd and try it on my other machine.
22:14.21IriX64joevalleyfiled, can you live with 9 dll's and xwin.exe in the bin dir?
22:15.43IriX64err joevalleyfield too :)
23:26.53IriX64freaking fonts are missing :)
23:30.21IriX64found them, now to burn another disk sigh   :)
23:39.13IriX64I DON"T beleive it, they hard coded the freaking font paths in.
23:40.59IriX64could create a dir on the drive called /X11R6/blaghblaghblagh i suppose but nobody wants that kind of kludge.
23:51.17*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:51.17*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070429

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070429

00:01.54IriX64this is for the birds, would be asier to re-visit xming i think.
00:02.02IriX64easier too.
01:14.36*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no)
01:31.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c:
01:31.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: Was ignoring return code from db_dirbuild(), allowing execution on currupt files.
01:31.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: Calls to db_dirbuild should always have the return code checked, There are many
01:31.37CIA-22BRL-CAD: instances where this is not done (mostly in the "conv" directory).
02:05.44CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (16 files): Added check of return value from db_dirbuild()
02:07.02brlcadwoot
02:10.47CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (iges/g-iges.c jack/g-jack.c): Added check of return of db_dirbuild()
02:17.25CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/conv/off/g-off.c: Added check of return of db_dirbuild()
02:24.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871943.dsl.bell.ca)
02:29.36dli_/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
02:31.09IriX64should be in brlcad/lib no?
02:31.39dli_IriX64, it's a compiling error
02:32.24IriX64but its looking for the .so file check .libs in tcl dir
02:33.02IriX64tcl built if you're up to conv
02:35.17dli_brlcad-cvs building error: http://pastebin.ca/463733
02:38.01IriX64what the heck it did 3 ok why sphflake?
02:38.55IriX64maybe libtcl8.5.so ran away from home :P
02:39.37brlcaddli_: k, thx... due to a recent change that builds libtcl shared instead of static, so libtool fails to look in the tcl build dir
02:40.17IriX64my system is weird i can only go by what i know, if you want real help talk to these guys.
02:42.46brlcadthere's supposed to be a fix in configure that compensates, but apparently not working for you
02:44.44dli_brlcad, any option to pass to configure?
02:48.39brlcaddli_: you mean as a long term fix or short term fix?
02:49.13brlcadlong term, it should work as is .. have to figure out what else is needed to make it work
02:49.20brlcadshort term, you can just build static
02:49.33brlcadfor gentoo integration, that certainly won't fly though
02:49.49dli_brlcad, it's an error from buidling bench, I'm trying " --disable-bench ", now
02:50.14brlcadthat won't work :)
02:50.30brlcadbench is just a minimal subset .. and that entire subset is required
02:50.33dli_brlcad, then, I will just wait :)
02:52.10brlcaddli_: another short-term patch -- try adding --disable-shared to the line in configure.ac that says:  ac_configure_args="$ac_configure_args --enable-symbols"
02:52.20brlcadit's near the end of the file
02:52.46dli_brlcad, sounds nasty to me
02:52.56brlcadit's a one-line edit
02:53.22brlcadheck, you can run this to do it for you:
02:54.12brlcadperl -pi -e 's/enable-symbols/enable-symbols --disable-shared/' configure.ac
02:54.30brlcadthen re-run ./autogen.sh and configure/compile normally
02:54.52dli_brlcad, okay, I will add this line with comment, " short term fix"
02:55.04brlcadi mean just to test
02:55.30brlcadfor portage integration, there's still the other things we talked about that need to get fixed
02:56.31dli_brlcad, okay, I will use tell you how the change works
02:56.50brlcadthanks
03:20.48dli_brlcad, no, doesn't help,    ac_configure_args="$ac_configure_args --enable-symbols --disable-shared"
03:21.11dli_/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
03:31.54brlcader, something's not right or not a clean build
03:32.27brlcadit's not going to use libtcl8.5.so _at_all_ with --disable-shared
03:33.23dli_brlcad, couldn't be, portage always creates new folder for building
03:39.49brlcadsomehow that wasn't a sufficient edit then
03:49.53smallfoot-brlcad, when will binary win32 release be made?
03:52.30brlcadsmallfoot-: it's all hinging on these last couple remaining build issues in 7.10.1
03:52.38brlcadhopefully early may
03:54.04smallfoot-okie cool
03:54.14smallfoot-build issues?
04:18.53IriX64has to build on my system smallfoot :P
04:25.34brlcadsmallfoot-: dealing with the new tcl/tk and finding scripting resources at run-time are the two issues that need resolving
04:26.41IriX64brlcad: could activestates windows tcl/tk be used, i have successfully installed those in the past.
04:31.31smallfoot-oh
04:32.33IriX64smallfoot, I'm kidding about building on my system :)
04:33.10smallfoot-oh
04:33.46brlcadIriX64: yes, it's sort of required at the moment if you're building the full binary distribution on Windows
04:34.36IriX64maybe ill re-install them then
04:35.30IriX64could happen
06:02.27CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix recursive configure support for when the recursion goes more than one level deep. add more documentation on example use and vars that can be overridden.
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16:06.52elite01hi
16:07.35elite01why won't puts [expr {1+1}] work in that mged shell?
16:08.14elite01i need to create 80 objects, all aligned in a grid, and want to use 2 for loops for that
16:08.25elite01so i even read the first bits of some tcl tutorial
16:08.30elite01but stuff doesn't really work :/
16:08.46elite01is brlcad's tcl interpreted heavily broken or is it just me?
16:11.58bjorkBSDelite01, doesn't that need a 'puts'?
16:11.59bjorkBSDor something to feed it into?
16:12.23elite01yeah i just tried puts [expr {1+1}]
16:12.31bjorkBSDand it didn't like that?
16:12.31elite01works in tclsh but doesn't in mged :(
16:12.49elite01"Error: extra characters after close-brace"
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16:12.51bjorkBSDoh i just noticed. you did have a puts.
16:13.05bjorkBSDworks here man.
16:13.11bjorkBSDmged> puts [expr {1+1}]
16:13.12bjorkBSD2
16:13.12bjorkBSDmged>  
16:13.26elite01expr 1+1 also works
16:13.28elite01umpf
16:13.34elite01*restarts mged*
16:14.01elite01aah ouch that does hurt
16:14.07elite01well works now
16:14.23elite01looks like i was typing in some expression all the time
16:14.23bjorkBSDwhat was causing the error?
16:14.33elite01at least i guess so
16:14.51elite01well thanks
16:14.51bjorkBSDwhich version of brlcad are you using?
16:15.05elite017.8.4
16:15.13bjorkBSDsee topic.
16:15.23elite01hm too lazy to update
16:15.26elite01as i said, it works now
16:15.36elite01and i promise i will update tomorrow or so
16:15.39elite01:D
16:15.47bjorkBSDthat's fine.
16:15.57bjorkBSDwhat you're using might be adequate for your needs.
16:16.07elite01my needs are really low
16:16.54bjorkBSDdesign of WMDs huh?
16:17.40elite01yeah, don't need too much precision there :)
16:17.45bjorkBSDnah :-j
16:17.53bjorkBSDthey're disposable items.
16:18.09elite01haha
16:23.50elite01bjorkBSD, still there?
16:24.08bjorkBSDno.
16:24.10elite01is "in" supposed to work in a for loop?
16:24.20brlcadelite01: mged shell operates in "glob compatibility mode" by default
16:24.41brlcadyou have to turn on tcl evaluation, or escape the glob characters
16:25.33brlcadi.e. if you want to list all regions in a geometry database, you might "ls *.r" .. tcl has no globbing concept to know what to do with * by default, but mged's shell does
16:25.52elite01ok
16:26.02elite01but * and ? is the only globbing isn't it?
16:26.20brlcadchanging the interpreter mode is pretty simple, it's on the File menu under Tcl Evaluation or you can "set glob_compat_mode" to 0 or 1 to turn it on/off
16:26.29brlcadno, [] are glob chars too
16:26.48elite01aah
16:26.50brlcadhence why puts [expr {1+1}] doesn't work.. that's a character glob set
16:27.01brlcade.g. ls [a-f]*.d
16:27.03elite01ouch :)
16:27.21brlcadsomething like puts \[expr {1+1]\] should work
16:27.31brlcader, typo in there
16:27.38brlcadbut you get the idea
16:27.44brlcadforget what the other glob chars are
16:28.15elite01hmm still doesn't explain why that for loop won't work
16:28.17brlcadif you don't need/want globbing and just want regular tcl shell behavior, you can set glob_compat_mode 0 and it should evaluate
16:28.19elite01wait a miinute
16:29.27elite01http://nopaste.php-q.net/291936 if you'd be so nice to have a look at it
16:29.42elite01coordinates are a bit broken - but the prompt at the end is strange
16:30.55elite01globbing doesn't change it
16:34.19brlcadokay, two issues
16:34.53brlcadone, the linebreaks are significant, particularly to the 'in' command (this holds true for regular tcl shell too)
16:35.01brlcadthat's why it prompts
16:35.06elite01aah
16:35.30elite01so i need to use a few \es
16:35.31brlcadsecond, you probably need to evaluate the command so that the string is expanded
16:35.51brlcadtry, http://pastebin.ca/464602
16:36.33elite01nice, that works!
16:36.35elite01thanks :)
16:36.39brlcadalsok, you're basically creating a pattern that has no transformation, the pattern tool can do that for you too
16:36.52brlcadyw
16:36.55elite01no transformation?
16:37.11brlcadyou're creating a bunch of boxes
16:37.12elite01just a few buttons... like on a telephone or the right side of a keyboard
16:37.49bjorkBSDthe numeric keypad
16:37.54brlcadthat's what I mean, you're making a pattern of objects -- the pattern tool (on the Tools) menu will do this for you fairly easily
16:37.55elite01yes, that one
16:38.02bjorkBSDthey're both keypads ;)
16:38.02elite01ok, thanks again
16:38.18brlcadno problem
16:38.41brlcadand if I'd get around to finish upgrading the clone command, that would do exactly what you're doing with one line ;)
16:38.51brlcadbut it only works for v4 databases at the moment still
16:39.28elite01sounds nice
16:39.44brlcadit's awesome :)
16:42.16brlcadsomething like "clone -i 1 -n 36 -t 10 0 0 -a 6 0 10 0 keypad.btn" would do that entire keypad with all the corresponding translations
16:43.23elite01oook :)
16:43.24brlcadincrement by 1, create 36 copies, translate each by 10 along x and create a new row after every 6
16:44.07brlcadmaybe -a 6 -60 10 0 to reset to the same grid x coord
16:45.06elite01just tell people how to use it :)
16:45.33brlcadit's got integrated help and everything, but yeah -- it's actually one of the easiest and powerful replication interfaces
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17:01.28elite01eek everything's spinning
17:02.16elite01ha! killed it! :)
17:12.48elite01ok, need to bug you again - how do i use the pattern tool? some documentation somewhere>
17:36.19elite01ok seems to kind of work :)
17:36.23brlcadthe documentation on the website covers the pattern tool
17:36.29brlcadvol III iirc
17:36.41brlcadyou stop the spinning with the "0"
17:36.49elite01yup
17:37.02brlcadpressing xyzXYZ in the graphics window sends it spinning
17:37.14elite01what a nice keypad :)
17:37.49brlcadhave to run out, but a screenshot would be nifty ;)
17:39.33elite01http://pastehere.com/?mguetc
17:40.06elite01maybe not a 100% photorealistic - but as i said... requirements are low :)
17:56.46IriX64even the default font... ouch
17:57.40elite01pff
17:58.13elite01now - i want a big region out of those many buttons - like r buttons u glob_aint_work_* :/
17:58.23elite01because i'd need an u in front of each button
17:58.30elite01now, what to do?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070430

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070430

02:41.48brlcadalas if he were only here, of course
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10:04.44elite01uhm how do i create a region that's the union of a few objects which are globbed?
10:05.17elite01r asd u globme* won't work because there's a "u" missing in front of every but the first globbed primitive
10:06.17clock_brlcad: before, the whole Ronja model set compiled overnight
10:06.45clock_brlcad: now I introduced threads into one uncomplicated model and just that model already took 2 nights and still not compiled
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11:26.03clock_tgc(thread_cyl10_0.8115_0.0625.s):  1 intersects != {0,2,4}
11:26.03clock_Is that normal or should I report it to the bug database?
11:44.34elite01_isn't there some big fat book with everything in it i need to know about brlcad?
11:44.45elite01_those pdf files aren't really uuh... big
12:24.08clock_Failing to compile brl-cad 7.10.0:
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12:24.19clock_./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >& std::operator<< <std::char_traits<char> >(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*)'
12:24.31cad79hi
12:25.19cad79i have problem during starting of the application. Could somebody help?
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12:44.12_jack-sup ;)
12:44.21_jack-wtf, wrong chan
12:44.21_jack-nm
13:06.42elite01_how to edit (translate) multiple primitives at once? or maybe a region?
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16:49.57deltazapwoo, my first decent model :)
16:50.15deltazaphttp://zap.bonzoesc.net/brlcad/platform/
16:50.32deltazapwarning, huge sizes ahead
17:14.17elite01_whoa nice
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18:25.16IriX64_elite01_ may i ask what version and platform you're using?
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18:44.54janohey, happy birthday, punk :p
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18:47.56IriX64_http://www.pastebin.ca/465957 < ---- don't know id this made it, this is the only occurence of have_x in the whole file.
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19:09.16cad86I just ran across brl-cad.... what is it
19:09.36cad86I have a model someone made using it and I was wanting to convert it to a 3ds or such
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19:13.37Ralfy2020hello?
19:14.22Ralfy2020is there a way to convert a model that was made in brlcad to another type?
19:16.34``Eriklots
19:16.43``Eriklook at the g-* programs in bin/
19:17.23deltazapalso volume IV - converting geometry
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19:23.10Ralfy2020anyone know what kind of model uses the .ac extention (new to brlcad)
19:30.49elite01_IriX64, sure, 7.8.4 on linux on a t2300
19:40.24IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/466046
19:42.12elite01_hmm i guess you're taking me for someone else
19:42.43IriX64huh didn't notice, was just curious
19:42.58elite01_hm? don't get it
19:43.07IriX64did you get your array sortedf out?
19:43.34elite01_yes
19:43.48elite01_i still have questions, if you have some time to spare
19:43.49IriX64wonderfull :)
19:44.12IriX64im not a user i just play but ask someone will in time answer i'm sure
19:44.14elite01_so, i finally used a tcl script to build a few of those buttons
19:44.30elite01_because when using the pattern tool, the offset wasn't right
19:44.48elite01_and i don't know how to move multiple objects at once - not even how to enter edit mode using the console
19:45.08IriX64you're light years beyond me
19:45.43elite01_oh
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20:02.07IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/466071
20:06.50elite01_it can find headers but no libraries? umpf
20:07.01IriX64disregard that last paste, i found it, unique to my system
20:08.15IriX64that's what happens when you have a system in a constant state of flux :)
20:08.50IriX64aren't I glad that wasn't filed as a formal report/
20:08.53IriX64.
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20:20.19cad25can anyone tell me the difference in rt and rtg3
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20:43.14brlcadcad25: vast differences, use rt unless you know what rtg3 is :)
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21:18.00``Erikheh, does anyone even use it anymore?
21:18.20elite01_uh i even started using it
21:18.57``Erikby 'it', I mean rtg3 and other archaic GIFT stuff...
21:20.39``Erikelite: what are you talking about with the headers and libraries? O.o
21:20.40elite01_oh
21:20.55elite01_i was referring to the pastebin link
21:21.35``Erikah, 'k, I tend to ignore irix64's paste stuff... :) what questions do you have?
21:22.04elite01_how can i translate multiple primitives?
21:23.20``Erikhum, got me on that... might be something you can do in red to apply a matrix to a set of primitives, but I d'no... I'm very weak on the mged use side, I mostly do underlying code...
21:23.22brlcadput them in a group, translate the group
21:23.31brlcadpush the matrix
21:23.31``Erikok, that woulda been my guess, heh
21:23.49elite01_ah ok :)
21:24.18brlcadif keeping them organized together makes sense, then I'd just keep the group around and not push the matrix
21:24.38``Erik'push', if I recall, is a matrix elimination operations, it'll mutate the primitives so the matrix heirarchy is all identity
21:24.49elite01_ok
21:24.50``Eriks/ns/n/
21:24.53elite01_another one :)
21:25.00elite01_i made two primitives right next to each other
21:25.51elite01_not, during rt, they intersect with a depth of 0.0000 :/
21:25.51elite01_*now
21:25.52``Erikif they mathematically touch, you'll get floating point fuzz that'll do "weird things"
21:26.39``Erikbrlcad: does the tcl print precision work in mged?
21:27.14elite01_and what to do about it? just ignore? or rather place the primitives a piece apart?
21:27.16brlcad"tcl print precision"?
21:27.34``Erikyeah, there's a command to alter tcl's default precision for printing floating point numbers...
21:27.47brlcadif it's something a tool like rt or rtcheck is reporting, those are %lf'd in the code with various lengths
21:27.49``ErikI came across it in the tcl/tk pocketbook, I think
21:28.11brlcadi don't think any of the useful numbers reported are touched by tcl
21:28.19brlcadthey come from the C side
21:28.20``Erikheh, hurrr, rt doesn't use tclsh
21:28.41``Erik<-- claims being addled by hunger, hasn't eaten today
21:28.53brlcadelite01_: run rtcheck, it might give you better information
21:29.15elite01_it doesn't detect any overlap
21:29.28``Erikwhat about g_qa ?
21:30.10``Erik(if you're just doing visual rendering, you probably don't care too much about overlap, so you can pass rt the -R flag I think to quell the warnings)
21:30.17elite01_rt only reports those overlaps when i use cell jitter
21:31.17elite01_ah yes, i just want visual rendering
21:31.46elite01_brlcad is quite overkill, but i wouldn't know what else to use
21:32.41brlcadelite01_: rtcheck -s1024
21:32.49brlcadby default is does a 50x50 grid
21:33.07elite01_oh
21:33.13elite01_still no overlaps *tries more*
21:33.23brlcadwon't go over 10k iirc
21:33.34elite01_it seems to :)
21:33.51elite01_uhm i gues that will take some time
21:33.57brlcadit won't tell you when you hit the limit, it just silently falls back to 512 or something ;)
21:34.22brlcadthough there was some work to let it go much much higher
21:34.23``Eriklame
21:34.40elite01_it reports that it's using that high grid - and it's still checking
21:34.57brlcadstill, you should be able to match rt -- use the same grid size and turn on jitter
21:36.05elite01_please :)
21:36.32elite01_hm - finished without any overlap
21:38.00brlcadah, interesting .. rtcheck basically does clamp and toss -- no way for it to report a 0.000+ overlap
21:38.08brlcadsorry, that won't help :)
21:38.56elite01_ah
21:39.56brlcadhm, as well as this comment in the code: *  ToDo: It would be nice if we could pass in (1) an overlap depth                                                                                                                                              
21:40.00brlcad<PROTECTED>
21:42.03elite01_that irradiance cache, used when doing photon mapping, is supposed to take some time - or am i doing something wrong?
21:42.31``Erikit takes a fair bit of time
21:42.36CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: add an overlap depth reporting tolerance parameter to the ray-tracers (similar to -R)
21:42.45``Erikthe more photons and the more complex the scene, the longer it takes
21:43.16elite01_ok
21:43.30elite01_whoa even another question
21:43.40elite01_how am i supposed to model a sheet of paper
21:43.50``Erikmake a very veryt thing arb8?
21:43.55elite01_one side is printed, the other isn't - should i use 2 arb8?
21:43.57``Erikvery very thin
21:44.32CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: the tracers support the -R option, which turns reporting on/off
21:44.34brlcador make a plate mode BoT by hand (ugh) :)
21:44.50brlcadreally thin arb would be best
21:45.19elite01_hmm but what about the 2 sides?
21:45.19elite01_one should be rather white, the other textured
21:47.43brlcadprojection shader should do the trick on a single arb8
21:48.59elite01_i just wanted to see if a few objects, well approximated by cubes, could fit into a certain space
21:49.08elite01_and now i'm building cool-locking models :)
21:50.50``Erik"more teeth than brain cells" hehehehe, red dwarf++
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070501

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070501

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12:52.00gioacchinohello
12:52.28gioacchinoanybody can help me ?
12:52.58elite01_maybe
12:53.07elite01_i'm no experts, but there are some here - so, just ask
12:53.18elite01_i'm not even a single expert
12:53.44gioacchinoI use brlcad latest version
12:53.51gioacchinoI have a prbolem
12:53.59elite01_what is it?
12:54.09gioacchinomged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/sgip &
12:54.33gioacchino7.10 version
12:54.39gioacchinowhen I run
12:54.42gioacchinomged> exec fbserv 1 /dev/sgip &
12:54.53gioacchinoit respond no such file or directory
12:54.59gioacchinohow to fix it ?
12:55.15elite01_is there /dev/sgip?
12:56.00gioacchinoI not know
12:56.09gioacchinobut i use the user guide...
12:56.29elite01_just check ls /dev/sgip
12:56.37gioacchinoI'm a new bie
12:56.37elite01_i don't have /dev/sgip - i don't even know what it is
12:56.56gioacchinofile:///usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.4/html/manuals/mged/index.html
12:57.34elite01_hum i just use file->raytrace and it eeh kind of just works
12:59.38*** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
13:00.05gioacchinoa demand
13:00.35gioacchinoqhen you click on window when you see your project
13:01.26gioacchinoyou can only enlarge or contract ?
13:01.35gioacchinoor you can make some action ?
13:01.59elite01_wait
13:02.10elite01_what window? the one where rendered stuff is in?
13:02.53elite01_and what do you mean by "some action"?
13:03.49gioacchinowindow
13:04.30gioacchinothe windows where you se your creation 3d
13:05.10elite01_ok
13:06.16gioacchinoyou can do any action
13:06.32gioacchinoor you can onbly enlarge and contract image ?
13:06.36elite01_uuh well i can zoom, resize, move objects, all kinds of stuff
13:06.44elite01_if i just click in the middle, it zooms
13:06.51elite01_with shift, it moves the viewport
13:08.33gioacchinohum...
13:08.46gioacchinoform command line how to save a project ?
13:09.12gioacchinoi try with save but when I reopen the project is black
13:10.58gioacchinomged> exec fbserv
13:10.58gioacchinocouldn't execute "fbserv": no such file or directory
13:11.29gioacchinoI start brl-cad in is folder...
13:11.39gioacchinoand fbserv is in the ls
13:12.13elite01_uhm you needn't save
13:12.28elite01_just like mged mystuff.g, close mged, do mged mystuff.g, ls - stuff is there again
13:12.33elite01_no idea why you don't have fbserv
13:12.38elite01_maybe you need to make install
13:12.50gioacchinommm
13:12.53gioacchinoI have fbserv
13:12.59gioacchinobut exec not see it
13:13.38gioacchinoI try with all tool in brl folder and it tell
13:13.46gioacchinono such file for all tool
13:13.49elite01_i guess they have to be in $PATH
13:14.14gioacchinohow to add the brl folder to path ?
13:14.25elite01_have you done "make install"?
13:14.29gioacchinoyes
13:14.54elite01_hmm should "just work" then - will fbserv do something when you just run it in a sh?
13:15.16gioacchinono
13:15.26gioacchinobecause it is in a folder not in path
13:15.41gioacchinobash: fbserv: command not found
13:15.47elite01_shows usage info here
13:15.50gioacchinobut if I
13:16.21elite01_maybe i added it myself
13:16.23gioacchinobut if I run  /user/brlcad/bin/fbserv it ask a port number
13:16.47elite01_then just do that :)
13:17.15elite01_or add /usr/brlcad/bin to the $PATH - looks like that isn't done automatically
13:18.37gioacchinohow to add ?
13:19.43elite01_add a line like "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin" to your .bashrc or .bash_profile or something like that
13:21.28gioacchinoit only add this folder or delete the dther folder ?
13:23.02elite01_only add that
13:23.07gioacchinook
13:23.14gioacchinoI ass it at the bottom
13:23.48elite01_yeah
13:25.40gioacchinowath the difference fro,m
13:25.57gioacchinoX wondow and OGL window?
13:26.10gioacchinobecause when I start mged from kde menu'
13:26.22gioacchinoit ave all menu' but it use X window
13:26.53gioacchinowhen I run mged from terminal it not have menu but i can use ogl wondow
13:27.00elite01_uuh sorry, no idea
13:27.56``ErikX and OpenGL are two different API's... I usually use /dev/X
13:28.12``Erikwhy are you trying to explicitely start an FB server?
13:28.34``Erikwhen you run 'rt' in mged, it automatically takes care of all that for you
13:28.46gioacchinoI am a new bie
13:29.01gioacchinoI try to make the cup of manual
13:29.14``Erikhuh, and they say to run an fbserv? odd
13:29.24gioacchinoyes
13:29.36gioacchinofbserv before rt
13:29.49``Erikum, if you have geometry displayed in your graphical edit window (the line drawing), you can run "rt -F/dev/Xl"
13:30.13gioacchinoone question
13:30.17``Erik-F/dev/Xl translates to set the X device as the framebuffer and linger
13:30.24gioacchinowhe I run mged from kde menu
13:30.32gioacchinoit have friendly menus
13:30.39gioacchinobut it not run opengl
13:30.56``ErikChances are that opengl will not buy you anything
13:30.58gioacchinohow to run it with opengl from kdemenu ?
13:31.10``Erikit shows wireframe either way
13:31.21elite01_uhm need to go for a while, see you later
13:31.34``Erikthey're not visible different... filled triangles is on the todo list (called "shaded geometry" at the moment)
13:31.50gioacchinoha
13:31.59gioacchinoX and opengl are the same ?
13:32.07``Erikyeah, it sucks, we need to fix it, but we're fighting mgmt on it :)
13:32.12``Erikthey look the same at the moment
13:32.21``Erikthey just use different subsystems to draw the lines
13:32.28gioacchinoI was thinf opengl most powerfull because my videocard support it strongly
13:32.35``Erikthe OGL display is all glBegin(GL_LINE);
13:32.54gioacchinoand how to start with menus from terminal ?
13:32.59``Erikif we had shaded display, you'd be right... but we're all wireframe at the moment, so it doesn't really matter :(
13:33.20``Erikthe menus? you mean the GUI? you have to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path, then run "mged"
13:33.50gioacchinoI try now
13:34.10gioacchinook now work
13:34.19``Erik:)
13:34.46gioacchinobefore  I have use ln -s mged on usr/bin but it start without menu' only the visualization winow
13:35.14``Erikhum, mebbe it couldn't find the right tcl parts *shrug*
13:35.18``Erik<-- doesn't know
13:35.30gioacchinommmmmmm
13:35.39``Erikbut there are ~400 programs in /usr/brlcad/bin and a lot of buttons in the gui just run "programname"
13:35.49gioacchinobut if I run mged -n the menus isn't
13:35.55``Erikso you really do need that directory in the path
13:36.08gioacchinoI have add the directory inb the path
13:36.46gioacchinothi is echo $PATH/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin
13:36.50gioacchinothi is echo $PATH /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin
13:37.00``Erikok
13:37.13gioacchinobut if /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/brlcad/bin start mged -n the menus isn't
13:37.20``Erikexcept you're echoing it
13:37.22``Eriknot exporting it
13:37.47``Erikunless I misunderstand
13:37.51gioacchinook I see bash rc
13:38.13gioacchinoexport PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
13:38.24gioacchinothis is the command on bash.rc
13:38.26``Erikif it's in your .bashrc, you have to log out and log back in for it to take effect for the menu's... or source it in the term you want to run it from
13:38.38gioacchinook
13:38.46gioacchinoI restart x server and relogin
13:38.51gioacchinosee you later
13:38.52``Erikok, when you do that
13:38.58``Erikstart up an xterm and run "echo $PATH"
13:39.00``Erikand make sure it's in there
13:39.01``Erikok?
13:39.09gioacchinook
13:39.17``Eriksee you in a minute :)
13:39.56*** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
13:40.19gioacchinook Im ready
13:40.59``Erikthen run mged *shrug* :)
13:41.26gioacchinoit work
13:41.34gioacchinommmmmmmm
13:41.40gioacchinois the  -n param
13:41.49gioacchinowhats -n ?
13:42.04``Erikon mged? I've no idea
13:42.17gioacchinoI see it on manual
13:42.27gioacchinohem
13:42.34gioacchinowhen I use -n
13:42.51gioacchinothe windows is blue and the menu isn't
13:43.08``Erikoh, 'n' is a synonym for -c
13:43.09``Erikclassic mode
13:43.12``Erikyou don't want that
13:43.23gioacchinook...
13:43.36gioacchinothe manual isnt wery clear...
13:43.44gioacchinoand it work partially...
13:43.54gioacchinoI can see anly some page
13:43.57gioacchinoother problem
13:44.14gioacchinowhen I complie  I must delete some error from makefile
13:44.21gioacchinoesample
13:44.27``Erikfrom the 7.10.0 source tarball?
13:44.33gioacchino-Lyes/lib
13:44.46gioacchinoI must rewrite in  -L/lib
13:44.52gioacchino[15:44] <``Erik> from the 7.10.0 source tarball? yes
13:45.15gioacchinoand I must disable ADRT
13:45.22``Erikcan you paste the exact error to, uhhh, pastebin.ca or paste.lisp.org or something?
13:45.29gioacchinobecause isnt the file main.c and anothe file.c
13:45.47gioacchinothis request is too hard..
13:45.57gioacchinobecause I had fix it
13:45.59gioacchinoI try
13:46.12``Erikre-extract the tarball in /usr/tmp or something and do it there
13:46.19``Erikthen you can delete it once you paste the error... :)
13:47.53gioacchinono I try it
13:48.04gioacchinomore than 10
13:48.28gioacchinoand I had redownload the tar.bz2 archive more than 3
13:48.38``ErikO.o odd
13:49.41gioacchinohttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=429282
13:50.49gioacchinothe problem with -Lyes/li  to-->- L/lib  is very hard!!!
13:51.04gioacchinoI must fix more than 150 makefile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:51.12``Erikhum, I'm sure you don't want to be building jove
13:51.19gioacchinoon the src folder and subfolder
13:51.33``Erikit's an obsolete reduced emacs clone
13:51.36gioacchinoI wanth build jove
13:51.44gioacchinobut it cause problem in making!!!
13:51.50gioacchinook
13:52.02gioacchinobuth jove isn't hard to fix...
13:52.05gioacchinois only 3 file
13:52.12``Erikfor some reason, you're getting "yes" substituted for "/usr/X11R6"
13:52.33``Erikohhh
13:52.34``Erikhah
13:52.41gioacchinoI was think
13:52.48``Erikok, you did "--with-x11", which is asking for WHERE your X11 is installed
13:52.55gioacchinoyes/lib is = /lib
13:53.05gioacchinoand I fix with this
13:53.11``Erikif your X11 is in a normal place, like "/usr/X11R6", then you don't need to give it that flag
13:53.22gioacchinobut I not know if /lib is rigth or wrong
13:53.24``Erikif you do give it that flag, you have to tell it where, like --with-x11=/usr/Xorg
13:53.28gioacchinobut it compile
13:53.51gioacchinommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
13:53.59gioacchinoI'm very studip!!!
13:54.21``Eriknah, just not used to the perculiarities of automake
13:54.21``Erik:)
13:54.38``Erikthat should be fixed, though
13:54.51gioacchinobut  ./configure --help isn't more clear
13:55.49gioacchinonow I remake...
13:56.35gioacchinoADRT support  wath do it ?
13:57.33``ErikI'm sure you don't want adrt at this time...
13:58.15gioacchinook
13:58.37gioacchinoJava Developer Kit support  wath is teh advantage ?
13:58.43gioacchinoI'm a java programmer
13:58.57``Erikum, it makes a JNI server thing for raytrace queries
13:59.07gioacchinoI can create java program with 3d animation ?
13:59.13``Erikso you can use librt from java, sorta kinda...
13:59.17gioacchino[15:58] <``Erik> um, it makes a JNI server thing for raytrace queries
13:59.28gioacchinonow I don't nedd this ?
13:59.48``Erikwell, for USING the software, no... if you want to program in java using its libraries, maybe
14:00.05``Erikum, look at src/librtserver for the JNI stuff, that's what the jdk thing enables
14:01.47gioacchinoand how to fix
14:01.53gioacchinojove tutotrial ?
14:01.59gioacchinoI not need it ?
14:02.05gioacchinoand wath jove ?
14:02.07``Erikno, y ou don't want jove stuff
14:03.15``Erikin talking to the guy who wrote the java interface, there are several unreleased parts, so the jdk thing won't be useful unless y ou want to write the java infrastructure to support it... (if you do, send us a patch!)
14:04.30gioacchinook
14:04.40gioacchinoI study it
14:04.54gioacchinoif I fix it I relase the patch
14:05.00gioacchinoanother question
14:05.20gioacchinobecause the makefile of jove is wrong on the official release ?
14:05.55``Erikyeah, it's probably broken *shrug* none of the developers build jove
14:06.33gioacchinothand on the brl-cad istnt a manual to fix it..
14:06.37gioacchinois very strange!!
14:06.57gioacchinothank's for helping
14:07.12gioacchinonow I'm buildng the fixed configure
14:07.43``Erikcool beans
14:08.20gioacchinowath a param to start  it without asking of tipe of winodw ?
14:08.33gioacchinoesample:  mged -X
14:08.40gioacchinoot mged -ogl
14:09.05``Erikif it's asking what type of window, that means you're passing it "-c" (or "-n"), and you don't want that
14:09.21gioacchinook
14:09.49gioacchinoI have maked the benchmark
14:09.55gioacchinomy machine is very storng
14:10.02``Erikhow many vgr's?
14:10.16gioacchinoBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 5620
14:10.21gioacchinoI have
14:12.34gioacchinoasus p5w dh deluxe + 1GB ram DDR2 800Mhz 4-4-2 + intel core 2 duo E6600 2*2,4GHz 8MB cache +nvidia En6600 silent 512MB ddr2 sse2 + linux kubuntu 7.04
14:12.44gioacchinowath you bench ?
14:13.34gioacchino* wath's your benchmark ?
14:13.36``ErikI d'no, lemme go build and run
14:15.49gioacchinoyou go fast ;)
14:15.59gioacchinothe making process in long...
14:17.01gioacchinowath's your OS ?
14:18.29``Erikbah, my copy is broken
14:18.34``ErikI usually use FreeBSD and MacoSX
14:18.49gioacchinoI use linux Kubuntu
14:18.56gioacchinoI have only a problem..
14:19.29gioacchinoMy remote remote controller(infrarend similar the TV) not work finly with my release of Linux
14:22.18*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dyndsl-080-228-187-239.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
14:22.31gioacchinobut all the other work fine
14:23.23gioacchinocan you trasfer to me some your brl work ?
14:23.36gioacchinoI not need the .g file
14:23.43gioacchinoonly the image rended
14:23.52gioacchinoI dont want modify it
14:23.57gioacchinoI want only see
14:25.12``Erik<-- coder, not a modeller.... there're renders of models on the sourceforge page...
14:26.00gioacchinohum ?
14:26.12gioacchinohow to render with mged ??
14:27.25gioacchinoand how to save database.g ?
14:30.00gioacchinobecause on file menu'
14:30.02gioacchinois only
14:30.07gioacchinoopen and new
14:30.09gioacchinobut no save
14:30.45``Erikit's automatically saved
14:31.46``Erikand for rendering, click "file", then "raytrace"
14:32.09gioacchinobvut when I reopen the file.g it is black..
14:32.17gioacchinothe file is void
14:32.44``Erikto get the objects on the screen, you have to "e" them
14:33.00``Eriklike, if you called your object "foo.s", you have to do "e foo.s" in the command window
14:33.10``Erikyou can do "tops" to see the top level objects in the file
14:36.37gioacchinonow I understand -n optio...
14:37.05gioacchinowith -n it show the object aoutomatical
14:38.38gioacchinommmmmmm
14:38.47gioacchinoI tri to create the cup but not work...
14:38.59gioacchinoon the view windows are black..
14:39.03gioacchinohow to see all ?
14:42.00gioacchinoother problem
14:42.24gioacchinowhuen I close mged from the x icon it not close close only the window
14:42.31gioacchinoI must kill it from pid...
14:43.49gioacchinoHOW TO SE ALL ?
14:44.03gioacchinoe name.s to see a boject
14:44.09gioacchinohow to see all object ?
14:45.03``Erike them all up
14:45.14``Erikor group them all into one toplevel object and e that
14:46.47gioacchinomged>ethem all up ?
14:46.57``Erikno
14:47.23gioacchinomged>e them all up ?
14:48.05``Erikwhen I load up, say, ktank.g (in the examples directory)
14:48.06``Erikmged> tops
14:48.06``Erik_GLOBAL             computer/           g17/
14:48.07``Erikair/                engine/             tank/
14:48.30``Erikso I would do mged> e computer g17 air engine tank
14:48.57gioacchinoyou must remember all name...
14:49.08``Erikthe "tops" command shows you the names
14:50.19``Erik(a file is not a model, it's a database of models)
14:50.38``Erikoh, and my vgr's... 22909
14:50.58gioacchinoheeeeeeeeeeee ???????
14:51.05gioacchinowath your pc ????
14:51.08gioacchino8 processor ?
14:51.34``Erik8 core opteron
14:51.41gioacchinoauz!!!
14:52.05gioacchinoyour is a workstation processor..
14:52.10``ErikI have 3 of those, two 4 core opterons, a 12 core itanium2 (altix), ....
14:52.10gioacchinomy is a digital home pc
14:52.17``Erikoh, I sit at a dual g5 mac
14:52.32``Erikbut I do all my work on other machines... *shrug*
14:54.15gioacchinohow to move the image after rendering ?
14:54.25``Erikhuh?
14:54.43gioacchinobefore rendering I can move and rotare image
14:54.57gioacchinonow after the rendering it is blocked...
14:55.15``Erikwell, you should see the wireframe moving... you can click "clear" in the raytrace window
14:55.54gioacchinoerror could not ezecute fbclear no such file or directori
14:57.15gioacchinobut fbc clear is in teh brlcad/bin folder...
14:57.23gioacchinoand the folder is in the path...
14:57.35gioacchinobecause it tell me no such file file ??
15:01.47gioacchino<PROTECTED>
15:12.00gioacchino<PROTECTED>
15:12.27gioacchinoHow to fix this problem ???
15:12.51gioacchinomged can't use the other program of suite
15:13.00gioacchinoit tell no such file or directnry...
15:13.14gioacchinobut the brl folder is in the $PATH
15:15.24gioacchino!help
15:26.18gioacchinoi HAVE FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!1
15:26.29gioacchinobefore the ecoprting $path
15:26.40gioacchinoI have add a link to meged no usr bin folder!!
15:26.48gioacchinonow I had remoe it and work!!
15:43.33gioacchinothe broblem now is
15:43.47gioacchinowhen I clear it clear all not only rendering
15:43.55gioacchinoand when i run
15:44.02gioacchinoe name.s
15:44.21gioacchinoi don't see  anywhere...
15:48.19*** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
15:48.50gioacchinoanybody online ?
16:02.45gioacchinohow to save the rendered image in a image format ?
16:02.47gioacchinoesample
16:02.53gioacchinopng bmp jepg ecce cc
16:05.30``Erik-o puts it in a pix file, then use like pix-png
16:15.09gioacchinomged>-o out_file_name.png  ??
16:17.56``Erikrt -o blah.pix myfile.g obj1 obj2 ...
16:18.05``Erikmeh
17:00.01*** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
17:23.50brlcadgioacchino: turn the framebuffer off
17:24.11brlcadthere's a checkbox on the raytrace control panel that will make the rendered image disappear
17:36.17*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-88-220.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:56.55gioacchinomm
17:57.49gioacchinook
17:57.51gioacchinoit work
17:59.49gioacchinobrlcad: noe a question..
17:59.57gioacchinoif I run mged
18:00.03gioacchinofrom prompt it work
18:00.30gioacchinobut if I run it from kde menu' it work but can't use the other suite tool
18:04.36gioacchinonow I try to fix it  adding the export path at all bashrc
18:05.12IriX64can try cd /usr/brlcad/bin too then starting it
18:05.33gioacchinoI ahave already try but not work...
18:05.43gioacchinoI rejoin at 1 minutes
18:05.46gioacchinobye
18:08.07*** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-220-18-199.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
18:09.48gioacchinohow to export the rendering in a imga?
18:10.12gioacchinoes .bmp .png .jpg ecc ecc
18:11.07gioacchinonot work..
18:11.14gioacchinonow I try witrh sh script...
18:11.27gioacchinoto start brl from kde panel..
18:18.44IriX64mmm works with Xming now
18:22.13IriX64forgot --prefix though, what the heck my windows now has a \usr dir :)
18:22.53*** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=vc@clamwin/translator/smallfoot)
18:25.45IriX64anybody wanna write a little directory utility, since quite obviously exec ls won';t work
18:29.09smallfoot-oh
18:29.21smallfoot-try system ls then
18:31.23smallfoot-system("ls");
18:31.33gioacchinohello
18:31.38IriX64there's no ls on windows smallfoot
18:32.04IriX64mmmmm wait a sec
18:32.29smallfoot-system("dir"); //then :p
18:32.42smallfoot-though, the output is different
18:38.42IriX64now have an ls but at what cost, 2 more dll'd come into play here sigh
18:38.48IriX64dll's too
18:40.27smallfoot-:(
18:40.35gioacchinohow to export in image extension (jpg, bmp,png,gif ecc ecc) a rendering?
18:43.59IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/windowsside
18:45.20IriX64gioacchino, try sending it out as a pix and use the conversion tools
18:47.14gioacchinowath the conversion tools ? is in the crl suite ?
18:47.51IriX64should hacve file called pixtorle and stuff like that
18:49.53gioacchinopixtorle file_name.pix          ?
18:50.32IriX64if you run them without arguments they tell you how to use themselves :)
18:51.16gioacchinogioacchino@server:~$ pixtorle
18:51.16gioacchinobash: pixtorle: command not found
18:51.45IriX64its in bin i think
18:51.56gioacchinoI control on the folder..
18:52.18IriX64do an ls pix*
18:52.19gioacchinommmmmmmmmm
18:52.25gioacchinopix-orle
18:52.29gioacchinonot pixtorle
18:52.33IriX64thats better
18:52.47IriX64i sorta know :)
18:53.02CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/rtserver.c: Fixed a memory leak in rtserver
18:55.29gioacchinobut it generate file.rle
18:55.39gioacchinonot .bmp , jpg gif ecc ecc
18:56.35gioacchinopix-png i try
18:56.46IriX64thers a whole suite, i think one for each file type
18:57.17IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    pick the windows side
18:59.40``Erikdon't use pix-orle, use pix-png
18:59.55gioacchinomy pix pn not work...
18:59.57``Erikpix-png -a file.pix > file.png
19:00.20gioacchinoa��V�u�z�������!���9<.e)�����H�Z��ɒ�1E��Z�@������~`Տ�~���y�G<d�y�+P�l�裪�
19:00.21gioacchinoit write tihs
19:00.23``Erikyes, it outputs the png to stdout, cuz it's stupid
19:00.30gioacchinoand not createfile..
19:00.31``Erikredirect into a file, like I just showed you
19:00.46gioacchinook
19:00.58``Erik(that's on my short hit-list of things to fix)
19:00.59IriX64thanks ``Erik
19:01.23gioacchinogioacchino@server:~$ pix-png -a prova.pix > prova.png
19:01.23gioacchinopix-png: unable to autosize
19:01.24IriX64:)
19:01.58``ErikI mean, um, normalize the interface set to a synergistic uniform something something BUZZWORD BINGO
19:02.11gioacchinothe outpout isn't a sphere...
19:02.32``Erik"unable to autosize"? hum, take away the -a and see if it works? how big is the file? O.o
19:03.16``Erikpix-png kinda expects a square file with the edges being a power of two iirc (256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024...)
19:03.54gioacchinoit not tell me anithing but the result is not a sphere is a confuse image I try with a new render...
19:04.16IriX64like rt -s 512 ``Erik?
19:04.38gioacchinonot work...
19:04.55gioacchinoit genereted a bad confused image...
19:05.25smallfoot-IriX64: http://rafb.net/p/emOqx494.html
19:05.57smallfoot-IriX64, i found this code on the internets it can list files in the direcotry and stuff like that what you said its like "ls" or "dir"
19:06.30brlcadIriX64: a cd to whatever path only works when "." is in your path (which it should not be for various reasons) .. better to just type the full path if you want to be sure (e.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/mged)
19:07.05brlcadgioacchino: to export a rendered image, you raytrace to a .pix file, and then use one of the pix-* converters (e.g. pix-png file.pix > file.png)
19:07.21gioacchinoyes I use this mecanism...
19:07.27gioacchinobut it generated
19:07.34gioacchinobud confused image...
19:07.52brlcadpix are raw image files
19:08.01brlcadso if it's not a 512x512 image, you MUST specify the image dimensions
19:08.37brlcad-a if you use standard sizes, but I imagine you used the raytrace control panel
19:08.44brlcadwhich will be whatever size your window was
19:08.54gioacchinoyes I use raytrace control panel
19:09.06brlcadyou see the size in the raytrace control panel?
19:09.27gioacchinoyes
19:09.30gioacchinonow work!
19:09.32gioacchinotanks
19:09.37brlcadtype just 'pix-png' with no arguments and you'll see:
19:09.38brlcadUsage: pix-png [-a] [-w file_width] [-n file_height] [-s square_file_size] [file.pix]
19:09.58brlcadso pix-png -w WIDTH -n HEIGHT file.pix > file.png
19:10.01``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:10.06``Eriks/^ //
19:11.56gioacchinobrlcad:  hot to obtain more quality ??
19:12.03gioacchinoI use max resolutio
19:12.06gioacchino1024*1024
19:12.16gioacchinobut I want more quality
19:12.33brlcadgioacchino: run rt directly on the mged command line
19:12.50brlcadrt -s2345 -o somefile.pix
19:12.58brlcadthat will make a 2345x2345 image
19:13.02brlcadsaved to somefile.pix
19:13.07gioacchinothis is the max ?
19:13.11brlcadnoo
19:13.17gioacchinook
19:13.19brlcads/2345/whatever you want/
19:13.22gioacchinook
19:13.37brlcadmight not like going over 16000 .. been a while since I tested the upper limit
19:13.40gioacchinoI must run rt form mged>terminal...
19:13.51brlcadyou don't have to run rt from mged prompt
19:13.54brlcadyou can run it outside
19:14.01brlcadbut then you need to specify what view you want
19:15.42gioacchino[away]tanks
19:15.53gioacchino[away]I go ate
19:15.54brlcadcierto
19:16.01brlcadciao
19:16.11gioacchino[away]sei italiano ?
19:16.16brlcadun po
19:16.20gioacchino[away]vado a cena :)
19:16.24gioacchino[away]che piacere!!
19:16.35gioacchino[away]comuqneu ora mi allontano torno dopo
19:16.39brlcadigualmente
19:18.05``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:18.11IriX64smallfoot thankyou, had to call scanit scanit2 though scanit already exists :)
19:18.40IriX64let me drop it in and try..
19:19.19CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: Add the TK cpp flags to the if_tk compile
19:20.03CIA-22BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: PhotoPutBlock seems to take the interpreter as the first arg now?
19:21.52IriX64mged> exec opendir
19:21.52IriX64Error: usage: opendir dirname
19:21.52IriX64child process exited abnormally
19:21.53IriX64mged>  
19:22.07IriX64heh thanks
19:22.45IriX64should have used pastebin, forgive.
19:25.50IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos  <--- the windows side is of interest
19:28.19brlcadIriX64: is the exec opendir supposed to convey something?
19:28.58brlcadthat's an external tool, and probably one you wouldn't want/need to run from mged at that
19:31.11brlcad``Erik: hey, you wanna take a stab at the tcl/tk upgrade?
19:31.35brlcada6 just came out a few days ago, massive aqua tk fixes
19:32.10brlcadbest to pull from cvs though, according to daniel (aqua tk dev), to pick up a build bug fix
19:32.16``Erikheh, uh, no? :D
19:32.31brlcadfair nuff
19:32.37``ErikI just want the damn thing to build... I have linux chased down to a runtime link error in db/
19:33.05``Erikfbsd has a multiple definition error for tk_close in bwish
19:33.05brlcadyou have build issues?  I've got good builds everywhere
19:33.10brlcadoh, i hadn't tested tim's latest stuff
19:33.19``ErikI have breakage on leenewx and fbsd, jra reported issue on linux
19:33.28``Eriktim's fault? got a tar arn I can borrow?
19:34.07brlcadhe removed the tcl/tk --disable-shared from their configure, causes a variety of tcl/tk symbols on a couple plats
19:34.21brlcadthat's probably the tk_close issue
19:34.40``Erikand he's awfully idle
19:34.42brlcads/symbols/duplicate symbols/
19:35.17``Erikoh, I made an obsd 7.10.0 build for clock (without brep)
19:35.28clock_``Erik: how?
19:40.11smallfoot-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A
19:40.59smallfoot-IriX64, that program in pastebin dont work?
20:07.24IriX64smallfoot: it works fine thanks, that abnormal exit is due to mged i think
20:07.32smallfoot-oh
20:07.50IriX64err wait
20:09.41IriX64http://rafb.net/p/2eYE1B66.html
20:09.52IriX64not quite sure whats going on here
20:09.55*** join/#brlcad menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume)
20:11.14IriX64http://rafb.net/p/5IexEY90.html
20:11.26IriX64works thanks for your contribution :)
20:11.53IriX64why two passes?
20:14.46``Erikwhat's "opendir"? you have an "opendir.exe" file? O.o
20:15.49IriX64smallfoots contribution to the effort.
20:15.59``Erikoookie, :)
20:16.31*** part/#brlcad menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume)
20:16.33IriX64works
20:18.28IriX64http://rafb.net/p/YSKJp738.html   <---- smallfoot lets have a belly laff :)
20:19.00IriX64thats the way it should always be with dos :)
20:20.13IriX64if you set your path right, you can exec anything on the system.
20:20.36smallfoot-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqLvBUSJucg&mode=related&search=
20:20.57smallfoot-oh
20:22.00IriX64:)
20:23.51IriX64http://rafb.net/p/KmYWpf81.html <--- works smallfoot
20:24.51IriX64smallfoot if i ever give this stuff out may i include your exe?
20:30.05smallfoot-it wasntmy exe
20:30.08smallfoot-i found that on google lol
20:30.27IriX64;) thankyou for finding it
20:30.30smallfoot-np
20:30.45smallfoot-actually, i tried some code todo an own, but it wouldnt work, so i was like argh, and googled instead lol
20:30.59smallfoot-so if you release it, then clean it up, obscure it, and change the names of variables, and style and stuff like that lol :p
20:31.24IriX64you found it it's yours :)
20:31.28smallfoot-hehe
20:31.37smallfoot-yeah, i found it, because you wanted it
20:31.39smallfoot-but its really simple code
20:31.54IriX64i know but i'm lazy
20:32.14``ErikO.o stealin' code ain't cool
20:32.34IriX64was going to modify a disk scanner program but this is better
20:33.33IriX64going to include ls too thought what the hay 2 dll's
20:35.56IriX64if it's on google, it's not stealin ``Erik
20:35.56``Erikheh
20:35.57``Erikthat's like saying that copying something out of the library and claiming you wrote it isn't plaigerism
20:36.05IriX64who's gonna claim they wrote it i'll gladly give proper credit
20:36.07``Erikalmost all my code is open source, on the internet, findable by google... but I still hold the copyright and get highly upset when people "change some variables" and claim they wrote it *shrug*
20:36.07IriX64and distribute source if they allow it
20:36.08``Erikand I've had tht happen to my software before...
20:36.19smallfoot-its not stealing code, its reusing code :p
20:36.26smallfoot-its like 10 lines of code or what?
20:36.38smallfoot-and its all call to standard functions, its like the only way todo it
20:36.42IriX64changed nothing but what was needed to make it work here, still does and always will 2 pasess
20:36.42``Erikon the flip side, my code has been incorporated into neat stuff like "icecast" and a "electronic picture" device, they credited me, and it's totally awesome that people are using my code
20:37.18IriX64ty
20:37.23``Erikif'n ya find code, it doesn't matter how trivial it is, respect the license and copyright o.O
20:37.38IriX64of course, I always try to
20:38.06``Erik<-- mostly going off because of "04:30PM <smallfoot-> so if you release it, then clean it up, obscure it, and change the names of variables, and style and stuff like that lol :p"
20:38.55IriX64I understand ``Erik.
20:40.35IriX64how did i get two copies of mged up?    :)
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20:41.04smallfoot-aff, got disconnected
20:41.10``Erikguess you could run it twice, but may get fb conflicts? why would you want to? O.o
20:41.21smallfoot-one time i wrote a database engine, that i based of hello_world.c and SCO sued me :(
20:42.08``Eriksco'll be delisted soon, then they'll just disappear O.o
20:42.15``Erikpost-love caldera really sucks monkey balls
20:42.15brlcadyou can run multiple mged's concern-free -- fb's are allocated sequentially
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21:17.57IriX64it was an accident :)
21:24.23IriX64if_tk.c in libfb (tk_close)  conflicts with same in dm-tk.c in libdm
21:24.35IriX64.
21:26.38IriX64renamed mine in libfb to tkk_close just to get a compile, looks happy so far.
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22:25.01IriX64just what in samhill is ssampview.exe?
22:25.28IriX64in src/rttherm
22:25.55*** join/#brlcad dli_ (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-061.uchicago.edu)
22:33.39``Erikviewer for ssamp files
22:34.05``Erikman rttherm
22:51.23IriX64ty
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070502

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070502

00:08.28*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no)
00:51.33smallfoothttp://img460.imageshack.us/img460/3686/psakittymk8.jpg
01:01.34IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (windowsside albumn)  It built
01:02.46IriX64``Erik, I can't view ssamp files but all the other stuff built.
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01:18.15IriX64http://rafb.net/p/L7Jsii75.html   <--- something I think I found
02:06.54dliIriX64, any idea for the " libtcl8.5.so not found" during building?
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02:15.54``Erikrun "make install", it'll continue the build :/
02:18.41dli``Erik, you sure?
02:24.08dli``Erik, you mean run "make" again?
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02:28.08brlcadnifty
03:08.39IriX64dli i compiled static, that worked.
03:09.40IriX64i.e. --disable-shared on the configure line
03:11.26``Erikdli: I mean make install... it's complaining that ti can't find libtcl8.5.so in the link path... install will put it there, so it can continue... install infers all
03:12.54dli``Erik, no, it's an error during "make" not "make install"
03:13.11IriX64dli he's trying to fix your problem, just do it and see
03:13.12``Erikyes... I know... and I'm telling you... install will work around it
03:14.27dli``Erik, just ignore the "make" error, and go ahead with "make install", is that what you say?
03:14.44``Erikyes... just "make" by itself is technically unnecessary if you intend to install...
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03:26.34IriX64``Erik, I don't know why but on my system at least, taking ssampview.exe (meaning the building of it) allows a successfull compile of the whole thing. Any ideas?
03:28.12IriX64err taking it out
03:29.09IriX64now i need a new makefile.am, thank God for cvs :)
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03:33.29IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/466829  <--- something wrong with your elapsed installation time meter, I haven't been here two hours :)
03:40.44IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/466834  <--- this sort of thing make my day, thanks for the great program.
03:43.28IriX64looks pretty too
03:46.59IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    work albumn, first pix
03:51.15``ErikIriX64: check out the -p option to rt
03:54.57dli``Erik, "make install" fails with the same error: /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-9999/work/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
04:03.43IriX64heh want me to pastebin the shot :)
04:06.42IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/466851 <-- I added that message about mapsize.
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05:31.46IriX64I attached to tk, problem is i don't know tk :)
05:43.18IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    (work albumn) caught in mid trace
05:46.11smallfoot-http://openclipart.org/people/Frap/Frap_Freedom_flag.svg the HD-DVD processing key is embedded in the image, as color codes on the flag
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11:34.15Caps_Lockmorning everybody, :)
11:36.21Caps_Lock?
11:36.44Caps_Locknobody talk here ?/
11:36.53Caps_Lockuf .
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14:24.25``Erik*grouse* yet more breakage from tim's updates O.o
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15:16.47``Erikhrm?
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16:03.37elite01huh? brlcad 7.10 doesn't build, gives me "*** No rule to make target `jove-tutorial', needed by `all-am'.  Stop."
16:03.41elite01any fix for that?
16:03.50elite017.8.something built just fine
16:15.04gioacchinoschoolyes you can fix
16:15.05gioacchinoschooleasy
16:15.14gioacchinoschoolafter you run ./configure
16:15.34gioacchinoschoolgo in brlcad 7.10/source/other/jove
16:16.22gioacchinoschoolhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2459375
16:16.28elite01thanks
16:17.50``Erikor, uh
16:17.53``Erik--disable-jove-build
16:17.54``Erik...
16:18.19``Eriky'know... like the help says
16:18.20``ErikO.o
16:18.53elite01help? where's help?
16:19.04``Erik./configure --help
16:19.06gioacchinoschoolmm
16:19.10gioacchinoschoolelite01:
16:19.22gioacchinoschoolhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2459375       this is the solution
16:20.12``Erikit's not a solution, it's a hack that could result in other breakage
16:20.26gioacchinoschoolok
16:21.03gioacchinoschoolbut with --disable-jove-build it not have the jove tool
16:21.24``Erikyou don't want the jove tool
16:21.36``Erikit's an ancient crappy emacs clone
16:22.01gioacchinook you are right...
16:22.06elite01uhm fine
16:22.16elite01but why was it changed from 7.8?
16:22.37gioacchinoelite01:  use ./configure --enable-optimize --disable-jove-build
16:23.35elite01not even --enable-optimize by default? scary
16:23.38``Erikthe jove makefile.am was cleaned up, but a mistake was made... it's been fixed in HEAD
16:23.53elite01ah
16:24.39``Erikhttp://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/other/jove/Makefile.am?view=log
16:25.40elite01hmkay
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16:38.18IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/467609 <----- not a show stopper but still...
16:38.47``Erik:>
16:39.13IriX64grouse.... yum :)
16:59.06IriX64photon torpedos away, yay :)
17:00.29brlcadalso not much to be done about it, tcl/tk problems are issues in their build system
17:00.53IriX64i know i had the same issue trying to build system libs from those guys
17:01.00brlcadbest to report to them if you want to see it fixed.. probably a windows-specific issue with the :: in the filename
17:01.13IriX64could be
17:02.24IriX64darn that feels good, love to watch work work
17:04.18``Erikso the fix is obvious... quit using windows :D
17:04.37IriX64heh smokers fix, quit breathing ;)
17:05.47IriX64now... if i do a cvs update what's going to happen
17:06.27``Erikspectacular explosions, flaming case debris raining down, and possibily the creation of a mini-blackhole that'll suck the entire planet into it
17:09.41IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (work albumn)
17:10.17IriX64just a sec
17:11.14IriX64there
17:12.12IriX64btw thats with Xming
17:12.50IriX64gonna transplant this thing right now
17:14.48IriX64if it works the windowsside albumn is going to take a photon hit :)
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17:34.00IriX64emmiting photon torpedos :)
17:34.21IriX64and yes exec ls works
17:38.15IriX64guess i could put xming startup in the bat file too
17:43.37IriX64windowsside albumn, first Pix.
18:06.26IriX64haha Xming setup by colin harrison, wonder if he'll mind
18:08.32IriX64urmf my directory tho is 7.10.0 think anybody will mind?
18:14.56IriX64haha ``Erik, tell me to zip it :)
18:17.13``Erikuh.. .ok... zip it... O.o
18:17.35IriX64now it'll be ready for distrobution :)
18:17.45IriX64err distribution
18:18.33IriX64gonna be huge though
18:18.48IriX64everythings linked static
18:23.12IriX64where do I put it, all the public ftp servers i used in the past are gone.
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18:27.25``Erikupload it somewhere on C:\, then everyone who wants it can get it
18:27.26``ErikO.o
18:27.27``Erik:>
18:29.33IriX64heh
18:29.45IriX64looking at box.net right now
18:30.34IriX64do I need permission to upload it to your server?
18:33.19IriX64errr mea culpa :(
18:59.37IriX64930,557kb
18:59.44IriX64zipped
19:01.13IriX64err 930,667
19:01.39IriX64that equates to what, an 8 hour xfer?
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19:08.55IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   the windowsside albumn again
19:30.25``Erikthat equates to a cd and a half... figure out how to make dll's :)
19:34.16IriX64rt.dll :)
19:37.57IriX64my dll's are roughly 64k each you guys are the hogs :)
19:38.54dtidrow_workhttp://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/41819/8800_Ultra_SLI.jpg - if you absolutely, positively have to have the biggest hammer on the block.....
19:39.51brlcadso that's the 1GB zip file I saw in the ftp upload dir a month ago....
19:40.08brlcaddtidrow_work: pretty!
19:40.17dtidrow_workand pricey!
19:40.21IriX64earlier attempt
19:40.33dtidrow_work~$850 each
19:40.52brlcadah, chump change :)
19:41.17dtidrow_workwell, yeah, if work's paying for them...
19:41.57dtidrow_workhttp://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_41819.html - parent article
19:42.35``Erikwas that the one on smacksnot earlier?
19:42.56dtidrow_workcould be, I haven't looked at ./ recently
19:43.12dtidrow_workerr, /.
19:55.12``Erikhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/stshores24/sets/72157594507045243
20:03.56IriX64your'e welcome to them, they're rusty anyway :)
20:04.37IriX64check the windowsside (should properly name it the darside but...)
20:04.45IriX64err darkside
21:22.51*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
21:51.40IriX64all that and i still can't produce a mug :)
21:54.08IriX64ah well maybe cvs has a mug now :)
21:56.05IriX64maybe package cvs.exe in there too, after all you've got cygwin1.dll
21:56.09IriX64:)
21:59.46IriX64conflicts in if_tk.c
21:59.49IriX64:)
22:11.19*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871595.dsl.bell.ca)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070503

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070503

00:47.09IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/468307 <--- if_tk.c the conflict :)
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00:50.44IriX64maybe those should be reversed?
00:51.13IriX64>=
00:52.33IriX64had it right the first time
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07:39.13clock_brlcad: BRL-CAD can do extruded bitmaps, e. g. I supply an array of white and black pixels and it puts a column in place of each pixel, am I right?
07:45.08clock_00538 #define ID_SUBMODEL     28      /**< @brief Instanced submodel */
07:45.21clock_What is instanced submodel? Is it possible to include other files into my model?
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10:45.46clock_brlcad: with the screws the rendering is now very slow. Is the alrogithm for the space representation efficient?
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12:14.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: adapt the for loop variables to not standard conform compilers
12:17.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: PNG images
12:24.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
12:24.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: generate define instructions from include/conf
12:24.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: to be used in Win32-DLL resource file
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19:20.06brlcadclock_: you are right, there's an "ebm" primitive (extruded bitmap) .. in that image with all of the primitives listed, the "BRL-CAD" title in the bottom right is an ebm
19:20.27brlcada submodel is a means to refer to geometry in other files
19:20.30clock_brlcad: and the ebm does it have jagged edges like a staircase?
19:20.49brlcadyep
19:20.55``Eriksince it's an extrusion of a raster image, of course...
19:21.05clock_and non-jagged edges can be done with extruded sketch?
19:21.08brlcadthough you can make the edges rather tiny with a high res image
19:21.21brlcadyes, sketch would give you proper curves
19:21.22clock_brlcad: but the shading will be still made from 2 colours
19:21.32clock_brlcad: is there a way to convert SVG or PS into a sketch?
19:21.50brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/ebm.png
19:21.59brlcadmade from http://ftp.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/ebmtitle.png
19:22.34clock_brlcad: how are the shade levels treated?
19:22.50brlcadshade levels?
19:23.01brlcadit's makes actual geometry
19:23.07``Erikum, I think he means on the source image
19:23.17clock_yes on the source image
19:23.34``Erikit's a heighmap, right? so the color relates to the height of the solid at that position?
19:23.42``Erik(am I guessin' wrong? :)
19:31.20brlcadthere are three primitives that take data in a raw grided/raster form, the dsp, the ebm, and the vol
19:32.09brlcaddsp takes short value data (0-65536) that translates to differing height values on the geometry it represents
19:33.05clock_0-65536 and not 0-65535?
19:34.36brlcader, yeah, sorry
19:34.59clock_brlcad: have you ever programmed in assembler?
19:35.02brlcadthe ebm takes bw data (0-255) that translates to differing height values
19:35.42brlcadvol takes bw data and a range of intensities that represent geometry it should create
19:36.02brlcadclock_: yes, quite a bit -- though predominantly mips, not x86
19:36.15brlcadand was many moons ago now
19:37.13``Erikwhich mips? only mips I did was r2k :( long long ago
19:37.50``Erik<-- mostly 65xx and 68xx asm :) more x86 than mips tho
19:38.12clock_brlcad: saying 0-65536 that's like stepping on the gas instead of break in automobile :)
19:39.23brlcadhm, I think it was actually MIPS IV or MIPS32, forget
19:39.33``Erikskewl days?
19:39.47brlcadsome, a lot then too
19:40.04brlcadfundamentals of computer architecture went into quite a bit
19:40.12``Erik*nod*
19:40.23``Erikyou might even have the same big beige book I do for that class heh :)
19:41.24brlcadgood stuff: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~larus/spim.html
19:41.39``Erikheh, that's the r2k I used... *cougH* O:-)
19:51.29IriX64why simulate get the real thing :)
19:51.45``Erikum, college students don't have a lot of bling?
19:52.20IriX64heh get a job :)
19:52.42``Erikheh, I had one at the time, I was still po'... the job mostly went to paying books and tuition :)
19:53.12``Erik(and these days, I'm busy paying off my house and car, so'z I don't buy much hw)
19:55.03IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos (windowsside albumn) this took a while:)
19:56.48IriX64mmm no libpython2.5.a ... ok ill forgo adrt
19:57.28IriX64thats me right?
19:58.10IriX64wonder how long ago it stopped compiling :)
20:00.02IriX64house and car... luxieries  :)
20:00.10IriX64sp?
20:06.01IriX64heh my funky build is installing.
20:07.06IriX64deleted /adrt and it built ;)
20:24.56IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/469590   <--- this is where it is right now
20:25.28IriX64sorry ``Erik another of my inconsequential pastes :)
20:28.55IriX64gotta re-vist ssampvie.exe later.
20:29.06IriX64err ssampview.exe
20:36.32IriX64haha compilation 11 sweet
20:39.14IriX64when does the compilation number get reset? or does it ever?
20:41.18IriX64it works with Xming.
20:45.15IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   windowsside albumn (I'll stop doing this now you guys have seen it)
21:15.52*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
21:28.26smallfoot-XML Parsing Error: syntax error
21:28.41smallfoot-that site dont work in Minefield (Firefox 3.0 alpha)
21:30.46bjorkBSDsmall wonder smallfoot ;)
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23:27.19louipchmm
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23:45.31brlcadIriX64: I'll try to give it a test later this evening, thanks
23:45.34*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@nsit-dhcp-035-061.uchicago.edu)
23:45.59brlcaddoes it require anything else (like an X11 server?)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070504

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070504

00:27.04IriX64x11 server of a sorts is included as an installer archive(Xwin32) but it's commercial, sorta works, but i'm leaning to Xming, free and works better
00:28.54IriX64remember it's 7.8.4
00:32.35IriX64http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/      Xming can be had here. should work better
00:53.50*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705505.dsl.bell.ca)
01:14.23IriX64no ls in that one though ;)
01:21.52louipc<PROTECTED>
01:21.54*** part/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705505.dsl.bell.ca)
01:23.05IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos  windowsside
02:00.29brlcadaww, 7.8.4 is not useful.. :)
02:38.20brlcadshould get 7.10 to work... 7.8 is history
02:43.55IriX64working on that now:)
02:44.09brlcadcool
02:45.00IriX64thanks... for looking at it
02:46.06IriX647.10 is quite a bit bigger... almost 1gig zip file
03:40.50IriX64see why i don't want commit access, I shot my big toe off again :)
04:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
04:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: revert the stashing of COPYING and INSTALL into memory due to issues with a
04:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: handful of shells/environments where it would cause unpredictable shell
04:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: behavior. instead, save backup files as needed (recursively). additional
04:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: awesomeness, set up trap signal handlers to clean up regardless of how/when
04:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: autogen.sh terminates or is otherwise aborted.
04:43.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: update to a6, verify auto_path code more thoroughly
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07:19.51Rangar_Mal, Erik.. either of you around to fix ops in #gl?
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12:56.06brlcadshould be soon
13:04.18Rangarthanks
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14:35.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: according to report from jra, BRLCAD_DATA is still getting set to NONE for his case, so rework the prefix settings once again to make sure there's a double eval on prefix and datadir before setting the AC_DEFINE's
14:36.43clock_brlcad: even when a tiny screw is in the scene, the whole rendering gets many times slower
14:36.56clock_brlcad: I am already compiling the Ronja for about a week...
15:05.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871595.dsl.bell.ca)
15:14.07CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: converters abort early on corrupted input geometry and a memory link in librtserver was fixed, both courtesy mister anderson
15:18.44CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/.cvsignore: ignore iges binary
15:47.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: oop, typo -- should be bc_data_dir var being checked
15:52.03CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: how the..
16:24.24IriX64ty :)
16:44.07gioacchinobrlcad: ci sei ?
18:03.17brlcadgioacchino: sempre
18:15.08gioacchinoheeheehehee
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20:50.22CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: flesh out extraction methods using iges spec.
20:52.49CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: implement methods needed for parameter handling and extraction code
20:54.26CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: consolidate brep handling into one class (since the elements are interdependent)
20:56.27CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: comment things out temporarily to get it to compile
20:58.18CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add brlcad_brep.cpp to source list
21:50.56CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: clean up after all backup files, starting from the source root
21:51.11*** join/#brlcad jano (n=point@mailbox.nationalfranchisesales.com)
21:51.24*** part/#brlcad jano (n=point@mailbox.nationalfranchisesales.com)
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22:00.36MinstrelGypsybrlcad: figured out why it's so big, forgot to do --disable-shared.
22:05.38MinstrelGypsyhttp://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    windowsside   terra.g :)
22:07.00*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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22:36.11CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: there is no brlcad.hpp
22:36.55CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: there is no brlcad_brep.cpp
22:39.16CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: remove EXTRA_PROGRAMS too on prodclean
22:42.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: do not build the 'iges' binary being developed by default at all, can still be built directly with 'make iges'
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070505

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070505

00:36.08CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/elapsed.sh: credit authorship on our script
01:06.33MinstrelGypsyhttp://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    windows side "RodStewart"  :)
02:27.11MinstrelGypsy``Erik once told me to lay off the wall candy, I'll try to abide by his wishes.... but Jesus, it's hard :)
02:29.23*** join/#brlcad bjorkBSD (n=bjork@ip70-178-214-102.ks.ks.cox.net)
02:43.49MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/471719   <----brlcad-7.10.1 now joins the ranks of Cygwin ports.
02:46.04MinstrelGypsyall i've got to say is thank God for tkUnixDefault.h :)
02:52.47MinstrelGypsybrlcad: did you get to try that Xming thing?
03:02.19brlcadyou said it was 7.8.4 ...
03:02.42brlcad... that sort of defeats the purpose of testing it quite a bit :/
03:04.57MinstrelGypsythat one was this one isn'r but if xming works for youu with that one it should with this one:)
03:05.20MinstrelGypsyim currently testing with Xming.
03:05.37MinstrelGypsyRod Stewart was done with Xming
03:15.48*** join/#brlcad christanov (n=nestor@201.238.161.169)
03:17.41christanovhow I can to execute it?
03:17.58christanovi am a new user for it
03:18.26christanovhelp
03:19.18MinstrelGypsyis it installed yet?
03:19.23christanovyes
03:19.43MinstrelGypsyset your path to brlcad/bin and execute mged
03:20.23MinstrelGypsyerr   /usr/brlcad/bin
03:22.00christanovthanks
03:22.10MinstrelGypsyread the documentation on getting started and then the tutorials would be a good bet, all pdf documents at http://brlcad.org
03:22.17MinstrelGypsywelcome
03:22.57christanovit is a good cad brl
03:23.06MinstrelGypsyvery
03:24.13christanovwhat is the better cad
03:24.16*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@084202026226.customer.alfanett.no)
03:25.07MinstrelGypsydepends what you want to do
03:26.52christanovobjects design
03:27.25MinstrelGypsybrlcad iks very good for modeling solid objects
03:27.28MinstrelGypsyis too
03:28.13MinstrelGypsylook at http://brlcad.org screen shots and images
03:30.35MinstrelGypsybbl8r if you have more questions I'm sure someone will help you out
03:51.50*** part/#brlcad christanov (n=nestor@201.238.161.169)
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11:45.58gioacchinohello all
11:47.16gioacchinohow to create a cono ?
11:47.42gioacchino*cone
11:48.00gioacchinobecuse I found on the manual onli truncated cone
11:49.42elite01_a cone is a special case of a truncated cone :)
11:59.02gioacchinoin cone tgc XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
12:00.37gioacchinoxxxxxxxx= ?
12:26.26elite01_no idea, it does ask for the values
12:58.44gioacchinobrlcad: hoe to create a cone ??
13:34.59brlcadmake an rcc
13:35.27brlcad"right circular cylinder"
13:35.45brlcador a truncated general cone (tgc), but the parameters are more complex
13:36.01brlcade.g. make cono rcc
13:36.48brlcadthat will make a simple default one, the "in" command lets you set all the various values on creation
13:53.56MinstrelGypsyheh winsock.h and socket.h don't get along :)
14:27.15gioacchinoI want create a not truncated cone
14:27.40gioacchinobrlcad: I want create a not truncated cone
14:38.41brlcadjust make one end have a really small radius
14:39.20brlcadlike 0.01 for the pointed end
14:43.15gioacchinobecause not exist a cone primitive ?
15:03.34gioacchinobrlcad: why not exist a cone primidive ?
15:11.07brlcadthat is a cone, it's only mathematically truncated
15:11.17brlcadit can still comes to a "point"
15:11.23brlcadjust not a mathematically infinite one
15:12.33brlcadas that's not something that physically ever exists -- even with one atom on the top, there is a definable non-zero radius to both ends
15:17.10brlcadexample: http://ftp.brlcad.org/~sean/cone.png
15:18.54brlcadthat's a rcc with one radius as 250mm and the other as 0.0000001mm
15:21.14brlcadrcc is actually just a subset of tgc .. tgc in its generalized form does conics, cylinders, cones, and other quadric peculiarities
15:41.44MinstrelGypsysuppose i could hack configure.ac, so I don't have to hack brlcad_config.h in future
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15:58.34gioacchinotanks brlcad
16:00.31MinstrelGypsygioacchino. io viena dah la bruzzi, parle dialect
16:01.08gioacchinoconoscete tutti opiu' o meno l'italiano qui ?
16:01.27gioacchinoio sono sicilaino ma abito a roma solo epr studiare
16:01.50MinstrelGypsycapito, io abito a canada
16:02.07gioacchinoio ho una zia in canada
16:02.28gioacchinouna domand
16:02.29MinstrelGypsyheh Canada eh grande :)
16:02.37gioacchinoama in canada in generale che p2p usate ?
16:02.37MinstrelGypsyquale
16:02.50gioacchinoe che velocita' di connessione avete ?
16:03.05MinstrelGypsylets try it in  english i don't quite get that
16:03.52gioacchinoI canada who p2p are used? and wats upload/download speed ?
16:04.10gioacchinoIn italy the most used is emule
16:04.25MinstrelGypsyadsl cable 10mbits 2 mbits stuff like that
16:04.48gioacchinobut win italy we have bad connetion!! 8Mb/s download but only 20KB/s upload...
16:05.08MinstrelGypsyheh adsl is like that too
16:05.13gioacchino2Mb/s upload ??
16:05.41MinstrelGypsynot sure with the old adsl it was less than 1 mb/sec upload
16:05.41gioacchino2Mb/s upload is very good!!!
16:06.06MinstrelGypsyi don't upload much anway :)
16:06.18gioacchino1Mb/s is good same
16:06.19MinstrelGypsydid you get your help?
16:07.01gioacchinowith p2p high upload is wonderful
16:07.21gioacchinoMinstrelGypsy: did you get your help? in italian =?
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16:07.55gioacchino<PROTECTED>
16:09.42gioacchinothe problem isn't interrogation point but "did you get your help"
16:10.00gioacchinoMinstrelGypsy: are you here ?
16:15.46MinstrelGypsyi don't do well in Italina i'm schooled in english sorry
16:16.05MinstrelGypsyand besides im no help :)
16:17.18MinstrelGypsyI just play with the stuff i don't draw, model or design
16:18.37MinstrelGypsythere's something called sketch for drawing i think
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18:15.01gioacchinobrlcad: I have a problem!!
18:15.10gioacchinoI have created the cone
18:16.42gioacchinoin cono.r tcg 1 1 1 1 1 100 1 50 1 50 1 1 1 1 100
18:16.49gioacchinoit ok
18:17.01gioacchinobut when I use ray trace it not render...
18:17.11gioacchinoita tell to me about a error
18:17.42gioacchinono regins left to prep
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18:41.59gioacchinoanibody can help me ?
19:44.27MinstrelGypsywhy does 7-10.1 take 2hrs to compile? 7-8.4 only took ~1hr :)
20:14.31MinstrelGypsy[22:38] <brlcad> should get 7.10 to work... 7.8 is history
20:14.31MinstrelGypsy[22:44] <IriX64> working on that now:)
20:14.39MinstrelGypsywell know soon :)
20:15.28MinstrelGypsyit's up with a separate dll dir
20:23.11MinstrelGypsybah spaces is giving me heartburn lets see what this thing weighs in at
20:25.30MinstrelGypsy2.9gb uncompressed, what did you guys do?
20:26.28MinstrelGypsyand thats with disable-shared
21:09.45bjorkBSDping made it to reddit http://www.arl.army.mil/main/main/default.cfm?Action=20&Page=149
21:10.02bjorkBSDnow i wonder if there'll be a rush of brlcad adopters :P
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22:11.00MinstrelGypsythere should be a song, macro hell :)
22:44.56MinstrelGypsya 1000 line hack i churned out in one evening, it would take me a year to churn out 500 lines :)
22:50.43bjorkBSDMinstrelGypsy, think about it this way: the following year it'll take exactly an evening to churn out 500 lines ;)
23:30.29MinstrelGypsyoh I see, save it up till newyears eve right ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070506

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070506

00:13.25MinstrelGypsybjorkBSD: would you laugh if i told you I'm playing with a Cygwin build of brlcad-7.10.1?
00:14.08MinstrelGypsy:)
00:14.49bjorkBSDnah. you insist on not using *nix :P
00:15.03MinstrelGypsygood shooting ;)
00:24.33MinstrelGypsywonder how many dll's for irssi, what the hey need something to do while brlcad compiles
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02:16.58*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177871595.dsl.bell.ca)
02:17.28MinstrelGypsybjorkBSD: only 6 dll's
02:18.49MinstrelGypsywant it?
02:19.04IriX64ill zip it
02:19.39bjorkBSDhaven't run windows in ages!
02:21.17MinstrelGypsyheh ok, it's only 2,387kbytes in size
02:21.25MinstrelGypsythe zip
02:21.28bjorkBSDwhat might it do with it?
02:22.10MinstrelGypsydon't know, suggestions?
02:23.00MinstrelGypsygive it to whoever@crew.local if they want it :)
02:23.05bjorkBSDhehe
02:23.21bjorkBSDhost it someplace easy to find!
02:23.48MinstrelGypsysuch as i don't do a lot of that how's it done?
02:24.11bjorkBSDjust as you host your images!
02:24.34MinstrelGypsytheres no file section there, i think, let me check...
02:27.29MinstrelGypsyno file section
02:32.46MinstrelGypsyincoming he says
02:34.58brlcadbjorkBSD: hm? "reddit"?
02:39.02brlcadMinstrelGypsy: --disable-shared makes it compile everything static.. which will result in huge binaries
02:39.59MinstrelGypsyof what use are shared unix libraries in a windows world, or wait a sec, the dll should handle it?
02:40.51MinstrelGypsyill play with it.
02:47.36bjorkBSDbrlcad, yeah. i saw a link to the ping story  there :)
02:54.47bjorkBSD... written by muus.
02:57.57brlcadbjorkBSD: that is taken from muuss' original ping page
02:58.01brlcadhttp://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/ping.html
03:00.13bjorkBSDah i see.
03:00.20bjorkBSDi wonder what it was doing up on reddit.
03:07.14bjorkBSDoh.
03:07.15bjorkBSDreddit.com
03:07.18bjorkBSDheh.
03:09.09brlcadooooh
03:10.36brlcadconsidering the #12 is "A fight starts on Wikipedia over Peter North's penis size", I'm not sure how much credit I'd place on the side being anything more than a google-ad-whore site
03:10.53bjorkBSDhahahaha
03:13.50MinstrelGypsynight.. been a long soft day ;)
05:05.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: must echo_n be set to nothing if it's nothing? remove it.
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18:01.23CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: protect against duplicate symbols with libdm
18:20.13MinstrelGypsyheh :)
18:29.54MinstrelGypsy.a and .la files? can we really use those?
18:32.25MinstrelGypsymged=19.9mb
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18:40.21MinstrelGypsybrlcad: progress, it comes up
19:11.19CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: don't bother creating a BezierCanvas widget for btclsh/bwish (migrate towards using tcl's bezier interface)
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19:19.03CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: turn off the bezier canvas, make an attempt at tcl 8.5's raw bezier support
20:28.59MinstrelGypsyyou work on a Sunday :)
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22:37.45CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/Makefile.am: add an 'sged' static ged for debugging testing purposes, only compiles on-demand and is not installed
22:42.03CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: reorder so that function declarations are not necessary
22:42.29CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/.cvsignore: ignore sged
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070507

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070507

01:28.51*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:59.30CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: wrap in HAVE_SETENV
04:03.10CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: iwidgets had the wrong auto_path dir being set for build dir invocation. specifically set tcl_library and tk_library if we find init.tcl and/or tk.tcl respectively in order to further encourage build dir invocation.
04:04.14CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: disabling tk bezier canvas compilation
04:10.37CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: upgrade bundled tcl/tk from 8.5a5 to 8.5a6
04:18.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (1314 files in 45 dirs): upgrade to tcl/tk 8.5a6 (from 8.5a5) .. includes even more (extensive) aquatk fixes/enhancements
04:18.37CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (92 files in 4 dirs): upgrade to tcl/tk 8.5a6 (from 8.5a5) .. includes even more (extensive) aquatk fixes/enhancements
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13:55.35CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: add brlcad iges brep handler
13:56.43CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: add brlcad iges brep handler
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15:34.22MinstrelGypsybrlcad: one thing, that 7.8.4 build requires a /tmp dir in the root, something i forgot about.
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15:39.41gioacchinohello
15:39.57gioacchinoanyone can help me ?
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16:59.20gioacchinoweeeeeeeeeee ?
16:59.24gioacchinoanybody online ??
17:08.44``Erikno
17:21.02gioacchinohiihi
17:21.15gioacchinoI raytrace my cone u cilinder compenetration
17:21.22gioacchinobut it are grey..
17:21.42gioacchinoI set comp.c 1 134 1
17:22.16gioacchinomater comp.c plastic 1 134 1 0
17:22.30gioacchinobut qhen I raytrace it are grey!!
17:22.33gioacchinohow to resolve
17:23.19gioacchino1 134 1 is green!!
17:23.51gioacchino``Erik
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17:50.56gioacchino_I restard mged
17:50.59gioacchino_now work..
17:51.04gioacchino_very strange..
18:03.03*** join/#brlcad clock_ (i=clock@84-72-89-8.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:49.59MinstrelGypsydid /fbserv change?
19:17.43deltazapgioacchino_: you have to redraw your combination after changing material properties
19:28.44gioacchino_ok
19:44.13MinstrelGypsyurff no it didn't.
19:46.15gioacchino_other problem
19:46.24gioacchino_the 3 light rendering not work...
19:54.09CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: add the handler back in (fixed compilation)
19:56.39CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: make IGES data type mutable values. utility classes edgeuse and pspacecurve need to be friendly.
19:58.28CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: fix datatype parsing. add debug statements, fix bug in directoryentry access.
19:59.33CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp): fix return types and make signatures match
20:00.16gioacchino_CIA-31:  I'm not a expert programmer... I waith for a new versione
20:00.20gioacchino_thank's :)
20:01.01gioacchino_*wait for
20:02.31CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: loop and edgeuse implementation/debugging. parses, but Pro/E outputs model-space trim curves!!!! need to sample the curves.
20:03.38CIA-31BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add the new converter back in... hopefully all files checked in now.
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20:50.37MinstrelGypsybrlcad: if I offer you some source will you review and commit it ;)
20:51.45``Eriksomeone will review it... that's what the "patches" section on sourceforge is for
21:26.45MinstrelGypsyty
21:32.01brlcaddepends entirely what the patch is of course, but yes it would be reviewed
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22:22.29MinstrelGypsydogpatch? (old joke, I just gave myself away :))
23:02.38*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070508

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070508

02:33.39*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
02:33.39*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
04:19.50MinstrelGypsyyou do realize of course there's no money to be made here, I'm simply going to package everything up (including source) when I'm done and give it back to you, minus my compiler of course.
04:42.16brlcadusing 7.10.2 hopefully :)
04:45.20brlcadhave that 7.8.4 you already made uploading to a windows partition for testing now
04:48.57MinstrelGypsyyes to 7.10.2
04:49.37MinstrelGypsyremeber the \tmp dir sorry i forgot to tell you
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14:32.40*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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15:55.20smallfoot-brlcad, today it came a new release of NSIS, 2.27
15:59.58MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/477314  <----- are these times for real?  :)
16:00.30smallfoot-no idea
16:00.49MinstrelGypsyleft it compiling while i went to bed :)
16:01.30smallfoot-:)
16:07.09MinstrelGypsyshould file a report with activestate, their tcl create.n and shell.n don't install (no such file or directory)
16:09.02smallfoot-oh
16:15.16MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/477330   <----- and I cannot fathom what goes on here (sigh)
16:15.51MinstrelGypsygotta be my system
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16:33.57brlcadMinstrelGypsy: probably not, if the clock crossed midnight, that might have messed with the numbers
16:34.42brlcadMinstrelGypsy: are those headers from the newer a6 sources?
16:35.01smallfoot-brlcad, today it came a new release of NSIS, 2.27
16:35.23smallfoot-when binary release of win32 planned?
16:37.08brlcadwithin a couple days hopefully.. have to test auto_path code under valgrind
16:37.33smallfoot-okie
16:37.43smallfoot-we should use the new NSIS 2.27 for it, instead of 2.25
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17:17.33smallfoot-brlcad-7.8.0.exe - 9.65 mb
17:17.47smallfoot-then i deleted it, and compiled with 2.27 and its 19.2 mb
17:17.50smallfoot-wonder what happend
17:18.13smallfoot-ah, now i understand what happend
17:20.44smallfoot-now its 9.65 mb again :p
17:20.57MinstrelGypsymagic :)
17:21.38smallfoot-ya, i accidently included the installer in the installer, that why it was 19.2 mb lol
17:28.24MinstrelGypsyheh mine is rougly 1.5gb :)
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18:11.35MinstrelGypsycan't get by fbserv man, real show stopper.
18:12.49``Erikum, why are you messing with fbserv directly?
18:13.09MinstrelGypsytis supposed to compile.
18:13.43``Erikoh, it's not compiling at all? suckage, paste to pastebin.ca or paste.lisp.org ?
18:13.43MinstrelGypsysure hold on a sec
18:13.51``Eriksorry, just got back in the office, still kinda outta it :)
18:15.22MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/477532 <-- all the errors ``Erik
18:16.42MinstrelGypsystarted after i did an update yesterday around 4pm
18:16.49MinstrelGypsycvs update
18:17.12MinstrelGypsygoing for food bbiab
18:17.43``Erikok, libXt is missing
18:17.49``Erikor not in the link path
18:19.58``Erikthis smells like the output of an extremely broken os, btw
18:19.58``Erikoh, wait, it's windows, n/m O:-)
18:20.54``ErikI think brlcad has kinda taken the stance that damage in src/other is someone elses issue, and I really can't disagree with him... (I'm more apt to disagree on the existance of src/other... I'd personally rather have dependancies external)
18:31.11MinstrelGypsylibXt ill check
18:32.02MinstrelGypsyi can't disagree with him either but have him appoint a "someone else " ;)
18:41.07MinstrelGypsythanks ``Erik, now i have other issues (which I *know are mine) :)
18:46.51MinstrelGypsyits all tkUnixRFont.c
18:47.19MinstrelGypsyin tk/unix
18:49.34``Erikwell, *shrug* other/ is other, y'know? if you were having issues in librt or conv, I'd dig in, but *shrug*
18:51.09MinstrelGypsythanks tho i really appreciate the input
18:51.46MinstrelGypsyhow much is a mac :P
19:03.49MinstrelGypsy``Erik you're a card, you should be dealt with (duck)
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20:03.18``Erikmac's range from 1 to 70 macunits
20:03.42``Erikand "a card"? I'm more used to being called jackass, asshole, etc...
20:05.16brlcadhm, that particular build failure may be more fallout from tim's X11 changes
20:06.45``Erikthe w32api build of tk shouldn't touch anything X, though, no? or is cyggy mucking things up?
20:24.59brlcadcygwin fully acts like nix by default api-wise
20:25.05brlcadyou have to override to get to win32 stuff
20:27.24``Erikso tk doesn't know to look for that, heh... -mno-cygwin is what I always used with it :)
20:31.57dlibrlcad, I can build -cvs by adding LD_LIBRARY_PATH, but is there a better way? Also, I still have to patch Makefile for tcl/tk installdocs
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22:23.25MinstrelGypsywhy fbserv tho, thats the question at the moment (btw fbserv isn't in other:))
22:29.11MinstrelGypsystarting a new tree from cvs checkout, if it' still doesn't build out of the box with --enable-everything, i'm gonna yell :)
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22:31.30dliMinstrelGypsy, --enable-zlib-build=no --enable-termlib-build=no --enable-regexp-build
22:31.44dliMinstrelGypsy, --enable-regexp-build=no
22:32.00MinstrelGypsywhy i want those :)
22:32.18dliMinstrelGypsy, I mean you can disable some
22:32.30MinstrelGypsyagain *why?
22:32.56dliMinstrelGypsy, if enabling all doesn't work, you want to narrow down the problem
22:33.38MinstrelGypsyheh it's modular work on one thing at a time there could be multiple problems, disabling code doesn't fix it
22:34.28dliMinstrelGypsy, you still need to locate them first
22:34.50MinstrelGypsycompilier tells you and so does the linker
22:35.25MinstrelGypsyas well as make,autogen, and configure and a slew of others :)
22:35.25dliMinstrelGypsy, what's the topmost error, then?
22:35.59MinstrelGypsycan't find x11 from configure :)
22:36.35dliMinstrelGypsy, which os?
22:36.37MinstrelGypsyi can fix that one, no need to disable it
22:37.18MinstrelGypsyCygwin
22:37.41MinstrelGypsyand before you laugh those blog pix all were generated on this system
22:38.22MinstrelGypsyfrom *nix code
22:38.54dliMinstrelGypsy, install xorg -devel packages
22:39.33MinstrelGypsymy X11 works dli thank you
22:40.17dliMinstrelGypsy, ?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070509

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070509

00:38.06brlcaddli: it's still not clear why that patch for the tcl/tk docs is needed or why it works -- could you run it by one of the devs in #tcl to see what they say?
00:38.26brlcadthey're a bit harsh to talk to sometimes, but they know their stuff
00:39.20brlcaddli: --enable-*-build=no is the same as the (shorter) --disable-*-build ;)
00:39.44dlibrlcad, what about the missing libtcl8.5.so problem?
00:39.59brlcadwhich problem?
00:40.07brlcadthe fact it's not in portage yet?
00:40.21brlcador something else?
00:40.37pooliowait, brlcad is in portage?
00:40.48dlibrlcad, during building, make fails with missing libtcl8.5.so
00:41.11dlibrlcad, the problem is in -cvs, not in 7.10.0
00:41.32dlipoolio, no, it's in overlay
00:42.40dlibrlcad, so, I have to do: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=${S}/src/other/tcl/unix emake
00:48.52*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:49.10brlcaddli: oh, that's news to me
00:49.32brlcadhas --disable-tcl-build been added?
00:49.41brlcadwhat was the configure summary?
00:51.01dlibrlcad, you want to see the configure output?
00:55.50brlcadplease
01:01.47dlibrlcad, first half: http://pastebin.ca/478202
01:30.17dlibrlcad, all output: http://pastebin.ca/478232
02:54.34*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593841.dsl.bell.ca)
03:12.49MinstrelGypsythanks for letting me test -Wl,-noinhibit-exec guys, it works
03:12.49MinstrelGypsyyou sorta get an exe :)
03:14.15*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
03:14.15*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
03:19.40MinstrelGypsymental note remeber to test "local scope" a bit more (I'm happy when things work, will try not to be such a blabber mouth)
03:35.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: readd support for running to completion even if there's no configure.ac file (e.g. when trying to just check --version results)
04:04.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: dear ghod, how did that typo go undetected for so long .. we need to run automake during manual steps
04:41.33dliexim
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05:56.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh:
05:56.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: change the trap cleanup awesomeness so that we only untrap the abnormal signals
05:56.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: when invoking a subshell (so proper protect_from_automake backup files are all
05:56.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: cleaned up correctly). remove need for SIGNAL var with a little restructuring.
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13:44.46``ErikO.o
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15:59.42MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/479153
16:04.05MinstrelGypsynot an error, just showing the windows side
16:06.42``Erikscads of errors, I mean, "C:\"? wtf is that shit? :D
16:06.53``Erikwhy are you using classic mode?
16:07.11MinstrelGypsygui has an issue at the moment :)
16:07.17``Erikaight *shrug*
16:07.25MinstrelGypsyill sort it out
16:08.23MinstrelGypsy``Erik ... almost 3 gigs with bothe shared and static libs
16:08.42``Erikeek
16:08.47MinstrelGypsyyeah
16:09.21MinstrelGypsymaybe i'll try --disable-everything ;)
16:15.48smallfoot-it works good on windows?
16:24.38jack``Erik: nothing wrong with having both, unneeded for most though..i'd --disable-static maybe
16:24.53jackbut those .la files go into -dev for packagers anyway
16:25.02jackso..dont really hurt
16:46.09MinstrelGypsycan you "dev" on the windows side though?
16:46.59MinstrelGypsygoint to disable shared and do a static link
16:48.19MinstrelGypsywill still be big but consider, whats the smallest disk on the markey these days :)
16:48.27MinstrelGypsymarket too
16:50.15MinstrelGypsy:)
16:50.16``Erikkilobit, not kB
16:50.40MinstrelGypsydon't run brlcad on it then :)
16:52.37``Erikheh, not why I bought the things :)
16:53.50MinstrelGypsysystems squared away again for now
16:56.34elite01``Erik, what device has 512B? many microcontrollers have more ram than that
16:58.04``Erik$2 PICs
16:58.48``Erikwoops, 256 bytes, my bad... 16f88
16:59.26``Erik7kB of program space though
16:59.30``Erikhttp://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1335&dDocName=en010243
16:59.38MinstrelGypsyon the bright side the OS won't have to leave a trail of breadcrumbs to find it's way around:)
17:00.14``Erikmmm breadcrumbs
17:03.52MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/479240 <---png.c line 373, my compiler says that first if will always evaluate as TRUE
17:04.51MinstrelGypsythe address of png_get_sRGB will always evealuate as true
17:06.47MinstrelGypsymakes now :)
17:06.59MinstrelGypsybrackets count
17:07.09``ErikO.o
17:08.32MinstrelGypsyscore one for the compiler ;)
17:11.22smallfoot-lol
17:20.28``Erikpng.c:373 on my copy is... different
17:21.03``Erikand png_get_sRGB() definitely does not always return true if it happens to be defined... since C equates 0 to false...
17:22.01MinstrelGypsyits the one in tk
17:22.25MinstrelGypsyyou telling me my compiler is lying?
17:22.52MinstrelGypsyi put the brackets in the warning went away
17:23.37MinstrelGypsybut again its other so *shrug ;)
17:25.08``Erikyes. your compiler is lying. O.o heh
17:25.21MinstrelGypsyill spank her :)
17:25.23``Erikya see, gcc is very identity conscious
17:25.31``Erikso when you renamed it
17:25.35``Erikit got all confused
17:25.42MinstrelGypsyall i wanted was a date
17:25.47``Erikmultiple personalities, general dementia
17:25.52MinstrelGypsyheh
17:26.11``Eriksoon, your compiler will start waking up with bits on her hands and no clue where she's been
17:26.27``Erikand y our process monitors will be knocking on her door about brutal process killings that'd happened the night before
17:26.42MinstrelGypsymmm she always turns to me for clues though
17:26.59``Erikuh, if that's your kink *shrug*
17:27.11MinstrelGypsymy bent actually
17:27.19MinstrelGypsyheh l8r
17:27.58``Erikcauses an interesitng hang during the ./configure pass
17:42.01``Erikheh
17:42.05``Erikin a 'wtf' sense?
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17:42.31``Erikhttp://worsethanfailure.com/
17:47.58smallfoot-lmao
17:48.16smallfoot-Toby Gray, that's just not fair! How come my chocolate covered raisins never come with any SQL?
17:48.17smallfoot-rotfl
17:59.05``ErikOMFGLOLLERSKATES!`2
17:59.07``Erik:D *duck*
17:59.16``Eriksorry, I'll be nice O:-)
18:03.28smallfoot-lol :D
18:03.56smallfoot-yeah, but i dont know any better way to express myself than "lol" or "rotfl"
18:04.06smallfoot-"That is funny." just doesnt cut it
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18:05.08``Erikyeah, and I suppose "heh" or "hehehe" isn't too much better ;)
18:05.33MinstrelGypsyirc ettiquete :)
18:05.36``Erikonce upon a time, like a decade ago, I had aliases like /heh and /hah that'd send something like "hehHhehaHEAHHEAhehaHEAHHehaHEaHEHa"
18:05.59``ErikI'm a little special at times... :D not minstrelgypsy special, but special... :>
18:06.26MinstrelGypsyoh oh..... they found me out for the idiot I am :)
18:07.02MinstrelGypsywaterloo approaches :)
18:07.26``Erikthey're coming to take me away, haha, they're coming to take me away, to the funny farm where ...
18:07.43MinstrelGypsylet them eat code ;)
18:08.24``Erikain't that just like a woman
18:12.22MinstrelGypsybaked code... interesting:)
18:27.32smallfoot-brasilians type like "HUEahAUHeaUHaehUAeheaUHea", H, U, E, and A (i think), in random upper/lowercase lol
18:28.02smallfoot-and the spanish do "jajajajajajajaj XDDDDD"
18:28.07smallfoot-and the polaks do "hyhyhyhyhyhy ;]"
18:28.16smallfoot-and the greek does "xaxaxaxaxaxxa"
18:28.55smallfoot-and the little girls do "tihihi *giggles
18:28.59smallfoot-and the little girls do "tihihi *giggles* ^^"
18:29.19smallfoot-the germans might do "huhuhuhu", but i dont know
18:31.50smallfoot-and the asians do "kekekekekeke"
18:32.04smallfoot-I bullshit you not.
18:37.57``ErikI thought kekeke was just korean
18:39.51``Erik^.^
19:15.53smallfoot-hmm, might be
19:15.53smallfoot-no, actually people from hong kong use it too, i have observed
19:19.27MinstrelGypsy``Erik is 9.9.9 *totally unusable?
19:20.36MinstrelGypsytankwizard... get me a tankard of ale :)
19:22.38MinstrelGypsythats yours by the way, just don't give it to *nix people, they'll laugh their asses off
19:36.10elite01``Erik, eek, pic *runs*
19:40.54smallfoot-http://www.datsunracing.com/other/humor/wowmount.jpg
19:43.03``Erikheh
19:59.32smallfoot-http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6358/1984nu5.jpg
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21:09.47bjorkBSDsmallfoot-, i thought the german sound for a laugh was a facial expression -> :|
21:28.42smallfoot-maybe
21:28.56smallfoot-as i said, i as unsure on the german one
21:30.44bjorkBSDthere's no laughter in .de!
21:32.02smallfoot-:)
21:54.04``Erikheh
21:54.17``Erikdon't forget, slapping the table must occur with every germen phrase
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22:34.07MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/479834   <------ configure.ac line 3833 what is this ^&64* , every time i checkout configure.ac i have to fix it again.
22:35.28MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/479836 theres the fix use it
22:38.50MinstrelGypsynow i've got X11 again imagine that
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22:50.08MinstrelGypsygoing for a beer (sigh)  :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070510

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070510

03:46.46*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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05:24.53*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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15:16.54*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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17:40.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): ws
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17:41.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: ws
18:09.00*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593841.dsl.bell.ca)
18:16.57MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/481203   <---- these warnings benign?
18:24.01``Erikhuh, weird, I'm sure they're not worth worrying about, but odd *shrug*
18:30.47MinstrelGypsywasn't sure... thanks
18:31.44MinstrelGypsypkg seems to build .. so like you say *shrug* :)
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19:16.56``Erik1/det
19:35.03MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/481314  <---- this now, I wanted you to see it before i look at the source code (might be my error, know what I mean:))
19:38.30MinstrelGypsyas i thought nothing wrong with the code.
19:42.29``Erikheh
19:42.37``Erikc++ is kinda special
19:42.39``Erik:D
19:43.05MinstrelGypsytime for a break man been at it all night
19:43.05MinstrelGypsysure is :)
19:43.31MinstrelGypsyjump to a case label? who codes like that ;)
19:49.29``Erikjump to a case label? uh... that'ts, kinda, uh, what "switch" is
19:51.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): Add specific curve and surface handlers. Implement rational b-spline extraction routine.
19:51.22``Erikif ya notice, the error isn't that itt does it... it's that c++ has this funky ability to define variables in mid function, and it looks like the compiler is wigging over that (perhaps due to not having the curley brackets to get C like behavior)
19:57.08MinstrelGypsyyou're fast :)
20:00.36MinstrelGypsylemme try my compiler on that :)
20:06.48MinstrelGypsyas i said you're fast and good :)
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20:35.17``Eriknah, I've been laying code down for 24 years now, I have enough karma saved up to get lucky once in a while ;)
20:39.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/dm-wgl.h: Added include for GL/gl.h
20:41.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vers.c: Added include for bu.h
20:42.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbn/vers.c: Added include for bn.h
20:43.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/vers.c: Added include for raytrace.h
20:45.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/vers.c: Added include for pkg.h
20:48.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/vers.c: Added includes for raytrace.h and optical.h
20:51.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/vers.c: Added include for dm.h
20:56.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/vers.c: Added include for fb.h
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21:24.52SportChickhi mozul
21:25.01mozulhello
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22:23.58MinstrelGypsythe bloody thing wants to argue i quote" Arguments 1 of 9 "   :)
22:30.55MinstrelGypsymakity make one nine, how far to the next link :)
22:31.02MinstrelGypsyi'll shutup now.
22:42.11MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/481637  <---what are you trying to do on this line? triggers warning
22:50.01MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/481653 <--- bltcanveps too, thought you might like the line numbers
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070511

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070511

00:34.20*** part/#brlcad SportChick (n=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick)
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02:39.52MinstrelGypsy7.10.2 ? any eta?
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03:25.48brlcadMinstrelGypsy: when it's ready
03:25.59brlcadyou'll see the commits
03:26.22brlcadblt is in src/other
03:26.58brlcadabsolutely don't care about warnings in src/other .. errors: depends; warnings: no
03:27.17brlcadunless you have some direct linkage from a warning to an error elsewhere
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17:13.57MinstrelGypsybrlcad: understood
17:15.19*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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17:27.29MinstrelGypsyhaha making it make to ole Blue Eyes "My Way"   :)
17:28.12MinstrelGypsysee, when there's music code lays down for you ;)
18:11.37MinstrelGypsythere, new configure switch, --disable-other  :P
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23:14.05MinstrelGypsymight give myself commit access if this keeps up ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070512

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070512

00:10.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add BU_DEBUG_BACKTRACE, cleanup and slot the unused
00:11.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: debug the paths only when BU_DEBUG_PATHS is enabled
00:11.19brlcadMinstrelGypsy: making mods?
00:12.23brlcadguess not
00:15.43Twingynew stargate *happy dance*
00:20.29*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141010.customer.alfanett.no)
01:03.44brlcadon dvr *happy dance*
01:07.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for kill()
01:07.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: stub out the backtrace section
01:07.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: remove _WIN32, check for HAVE_KILL
01:15.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: use HAVE_KILL instead of _WIN32, refactor into just one
01:18.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/vdraw.c: remove dead code
04:29.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (backtrace.c Makefile.am bomb.c): Initial support for extracting a stack backtrace during run-time from the current execution environment. Hooked into bu_bomb() for starters, which is just set up to write the backtrace out to a file for now.
04:30.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: ws, stdc
04:50.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/kill.c: add support for a consistent means to kill a process via new bu_terminate() call
04:51.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add kill.c
04:51.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare newly added bu_terminate() call
04:52.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: use bu_terminate()
05:00.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/kill.c: just in case, DWORD
05:17.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: add getpid() equivalence for win32 ala GetCurrentProcessId() so that parallel stuff can be closer to working native
05:17.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ispar.c: use bu_terminate() since it should be a proper pid now to be killed properly, even on win32.
05:31.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: ws and minor dead code cleanup
05:35.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add backtrace.c and kill.c
05:36.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: add backtrace.c and kill.c
05:54.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: ws and massive reorder so forward declarations aren't necessary
06:00.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: maybe unnecessary as there's much more needed to deal with all the rest of the signal code, but go ahead and wrap getting the right pid
06:02.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/fbed.c: maybe unnecessary as there's much more needed to deal with all the rest of the signal code, but go ahead and wrap getting the right pid
06:03.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/do_options.c: maybe unnecessary as there's more needed to deal with the signal code, but go ahead and wrap getting the right pid
06:07.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: do something if we don't have kill()
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06:13.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: already declared in ged.h
06:21.35clock_brlcad: here?
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21:04.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/kill.c: missing signal.h header
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22:00.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 3 dirs): add process.c to libbu for a bu_process_id() wrapper call for getting the pid of the current process
22:07.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: include dependent headers
22:23.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 7 dirs): use new bu_process_id() function to get the pid now
22:25.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: add GetCurrentProcessId() towards having the right value on windows, while avoiding making libbu a dependency still
22:27.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/dm.h: need vmath.h for the vector code
22:27.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: use new bu_process_id() function to get the pid now
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070513

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070513

00:06.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_backtrace()
02:26.55*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593841.dsl.bell.ca)
02:27.40MinstrelGypsybrlcad: yes, making minor mods
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07:11.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: only want/need the first, so avoid a two-element array
07:12.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (stat.c which.c whereis.c): use bu_debug & BU_DEBUG_PATHS
07:14.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: flush before forking, else we end up with duplicates when both child and parent flush. free a few overlooked allocations. turn off some of the optional signal stuff for now.
07:17.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (which.c whereis.c): ws
08:19.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (which.c whereis.c): init everything
08:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (bomb.c malloc.c):
08:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: add a memory buffer failsafe to bu_bomb() that will release an allocation (64k)
08:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: prior to performing the shutdown calls (some syscalls, some others may have tiny
08:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: allocations of their own even for string/print processing). this is of course
08:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: down to give the app a tiny bit of breathing room so that hopefully there's
08:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: enough room to shutdown cleanly.
08:24.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: minor, set to null when freed
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13:11.55CPU_Wizardhello people
13:12.07CPU_Wizardis there anyone here to ask something please?
13:12.09CPU_Wizard):
13:12.10CPU_Wizard:)
13:15.23elite01jusk ask, if you're lucky, you'll get a response soon :)
13:16.00CPU_Wizardok :) i installed yesterday brlcad on ubuntu feisty, but i can't run the program
13:16.22CPU_Wizardi cant's get it started from console and there is no icon on the Applications menu
13:16.23elite01mged?
13:16.30CPU_Wizardmged=?
13:16.39elite01type mged into the console
13:17.11CPU_Wizardcommand not found
13:17.59elite01uuh locate mged?
13:18.35CPU_Wizardi can't find it... maybe i'll have to install it from synaptics
13:18.43CPU_Wizardsynaptic*
13:19.07elite01i installed from source
13:19.28CPU_Wizardlet me check
13:20.08CPU_Wizardi wonder why it doesn't work... the package was .deb so it was supposed to install automatically
13:20.12CPU_Wizardi don't get it :(
13:20.28elite01maybe mged just isn't in the path
13:21.26CPU_Wizardlet me check :)
13:21.37elite01maybe /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
13:23.13CPU_Wizardok found it
13:23.17CPU_Wizardthat's brlcad? :S
13:23.32elite01uh that's the modeler
13:24.28CPU_Wizardi 'd expect a nicer environment... the fonts are not very clear :S
13:24.54elite01they're... huge
13:25.01CPU_Wizardyeah :P
13:25.05elite01check file->preferences->fonts
13:26.14elite01and file->update/create .mgedrc otherwise the settings are gone
13:27.03CPU_Wizardok found it... what font do you use?
13:27.18elite01i'd just set the size to 8 or something
13:27.33elite01but somehow it always sets it back on restart
13:29.00CPU_Wizardok! elite01 thnx for all the help. it was very kind of you :)
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18:49.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (which.c whereis.c):
18:49.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: rewrite bu_which/bu_whereis routines so that they just return the first match
18:49.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: encountered instead of all matches. this simplifies the caller interface and
18:49.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: makes it easier to implement them in a manner that does not require heap
18:49.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: allocation.
18:52.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (libbu/backtrace.c libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c): whereis/which now just take one parameter, the command name, returning the matched result. no longer need to free anything.
18:52.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: debug printing
18:52.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_whereis() and bu_which()
18:53.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add crashreport.c to build
18:56.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c:
18:56.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: initial implementation of a crash report generator that works with the new
18:56.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: backtrace support. included in the crash report are additional details like the
18:56.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: version of BRL-CAD; kernel, OS, and hardware info (via sysctl and uname
18:56.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: commands); and the stack trace. needs more work to avoid allocations and not
18:57.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: utilize stack data in case of corruption, but it's a good start.
18:58.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/libbu.dsp misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj): add crashreport.c to the windows build
19:01.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: generate crash report files during application abort
19:02.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tcl/tk updated, just one thing left to check up on before release
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070514

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070514

00:26.03*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
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14:00.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: Remove some debugging statements, and make parameter methods const.
14:02.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): Implement extract routine for surfaces of revolution.
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15:47.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (44 files in 44 dirs): Update include paths due to changes in where files like tcl.h, zlib.h etc. live
16:07.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: oh yeah, do something about sketcher before release too .. at least should make sure it doesn't crash if it's going to remain disabled
16:09.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: do the header expansion in our own buffer to help avoid heap allocation inside fprintf; don't print empty sysctl lines
16:40.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h machine.h nmg.h rtlist.h rtstring.h): rtlist.h and rtstring.h are no longer relevant -- warn that they are obsolete (to be removed in a future minor rev)
16:48.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: add xform matrix extraction (still needs to be optimized)
16:49.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): implement extraction routine for circular arcs
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16:54.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: er, if they're deprecated, then why the heck are we still using them. remove rtlist.h and compat4.h usage.
16:55.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (rtlist.h rtstring.h conf.h): gnu preprocessor doesn't like #warn -- use #warning
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16:57.39cad57hi
16:58.13cad57im from italy and im becoming mad
16:58.39cad57can someone help me with brlcad extrude?
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17:14.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: avoid new stack/heap variables since these routines need to be callable during a crash and out-of-memory situations.
17:14.56cad44Hello.  I was looking for a sudo cad program for "home" design.  Do any of you know of an open source solution for house design?  I thought BRL was overkill for it.
17:16.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/msr.h: msr is also obsolete, add #warning
17:17.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/compat4.h: The compat4.h header provides support for DEPRECATED interface names. encourage callers to update their sources via a #warning.
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17:28.43clock_brlcad: do you go to gym?
17:31.59brlcadclock_: as much as I can get away with
17:32.11brlcadcad44: nothing really good
17:32.24clock_brlcad: I made a home trainer that makes electricity... up to 380V DC and up to 90W.. and connected my laptop to it
17:32.45brlcadheh
17:33.10clock_training is now simple. You have to keep the voltage between preferrably 250V and 300V, which is quite strenuous, to not burn the laptop or reset the computer and lose your work
17:33.21clock_so after reading your email you can get away with a towel, but after a 1/2 hour work you already have to take a shower... :D
17:33.37clock_and computer addiction is suddenly gone :)
17:33.42brlcadhehe
17:34.10brlcadsounds like you should be able to plug into a ups to regulate it
17:34.33clock_when you have too little steam, no regulation helps you
17:34.44clock_regulation cannot create energy
17:34.50clock_what you need is a whip, not an UPS :)
17:37.18brlcadi mean if you had a charged ups, and you hooked up your generator to feed it, then plugged laptop into the ups.. that might not sustain you indefinitely, but it could possible take you days to drain it at a leisurely pace ;)
17:40.26clock_well my objection is not to save energy or become grid independent, but, vulgarily said, get a fuckable body
17:40.55clock_the problem with normal home trainer is that there's not much motivation to exercise into a brake
17:41.34clock_but if the thing is hooked up in the way that if you pedal too slow for a split second, you are penalized with a 7 minute fsck, then there's a clearly cut motivation :)
17:42.52brlcadhm.. no matter how much I like to keep in shape, I don't think I'd risk my data for it :)
17:44.17brlcadi actually don't really like working out at home either.. i've tried it many times, but it almost guaranteed leads me to ignore the equipment/weights/bike/whatever or find other things to do after a while
17:44.35clock_other people say the same
17:44.53brlcadplus there are secondary benefits of going to the gym outside of just the workout -- seeing others, making friends, being social, getting away from distractions, etc
17:45.10clock_additional workout of walking into the gym?
17:45.25clock_Well my idea is to add this on top of the regular activities
17:45.39clock_since it's stacked on the home PC usage which is already pre-wasted time
17:54.38brlcadwow, the compat4 conversion was never completed (!)
19:14.51*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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20:01.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/base/tkimgIO.c: quell warning
20:01.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (LoadArcherLibs.tcl Archer.tcl): Use tcl_platform(platform) instead of tcl_platform(os).
20:13.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/mged/mged.vcproj: Update include paths. Added IF_WGL to list of preprocessor definitions.
20:18.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.hpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp BrepHandler.cpp): implement extraction of edges and vertices, finish loop and edge use handling calls. there remains a bug in the vertex extractor at this point.
20:20.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj_win32.c: Need to include pkg.h and fb.h
20:24.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: Include winsock2.h before windows.h to get rid of redefinition errors.
20:26.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: If on windows don't need to declare itoa(), especially one that returns void
20:29.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/ (bltBgexec.c bltNsUtil.h bltVecMath.c tkConsole.c): Mods to update BLT with respect to Tcl
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21:05.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (122 files in 25 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:05.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: gah, pick up where someone left off over half a decade ago. finish updating all
21:05.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: of the compat4 symbols throughout the code to their new names. finally. it's
21:05.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: done. make the deprecated headers obsolete -- make compat4.h obsolete too so we
21:05.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: can be sure that all of the changes are now picked up by the compiler as errors.
21:05.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: this change will likely impact muves if they've similarly not updated to the new
21:05.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: names too, so the headers are kept with a #warning for now (though will likely
21:08.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am bombardier.c): oops, that wasn't supposed to be part of the massive compat4 commit, revert it away for now until it's done
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21:14.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: use VSET
21:22.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp:
21:22.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: vmath is predominantly vector math, matrix math is elsewhere in bn (this holds
21:22.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: for other operations that are more intensive than basic vector math code too).
21:22.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: in particular, seems at a glance that this code should be using bn_mat_mult().
21:31.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: need bn.h for bn_mat_mul
21:32.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: common.h always comes before system headers
21:33.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): not knowing the file type should report a non-zero error
21:35.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/ (footer.sh header.sh): add additional c++ header name suffixes
21:37.40*** join/#brlcad Attil1 (n=Propriet@213-140-6-119.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:38.09Attil1hi all guys :D
21:38.28*** part/#brlcad Attil1 (n=Propriet@213-140-6-119.ip.fastwebnet.it)
21:42.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/header.sh: stub out where the description goes and add the author block automatically
21:45.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (n_iges.cpp n_iges.hpp): add the file header/footers (added automatically by running [ sh/template.sh lgpl path/to/filename ])
21:49.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/compat4.h: should be pretty much all scrubbed up now
23:17.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pixcount.c remapid.c mst.c): redblack.h is no longer needed -- facilities are provided for by bu.h
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070515

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070515

00:25.32*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705647.dsl.bell.ca)
00:37.22*** join/#brlcad Joely (n=joel@68.249.189.81)
00:43.03Joelyhey, I've been going over tutorials for the past days, and teaching some people how to use BRL-CAD, but I still can't figure out how to make a rectangular prism with given exact dimensions. i think i'm missing something big (i can make really easy precise things like this: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/35/stereoplugri3.png) but i just cannot figure out how to simply make an arb8 with just putting in the dimensions, rather than playing with vertices..
01:05.54brlcadhello Joely
01:08.58brlcadJoely: how are you creating cylinders precisely now?
01:10.10brlcadyou can create a precise arb8 in several ways .. the in command, via edit options on the menu, via text editors, etc
01:11.50Joelyah, yes, i just tried again (i ate and got some willpower!) with some more vertices..but i'm just wondering if there's certain shortcuts for `regular' shapes (like a rectangular prism...where you only really need to define 4 verts instead of 8)
01:12.39Joelyok nvm that didn't make sense...
01:13.03Joelyi just thought there would be something for snapping to dimensions
01:13.17brlcadtype "make arb6"
01:14.26brlcader, sorry: make prism arb6
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02:25.05*** part/#brlcad Joely (n=joel@68.249.189.81)
03:07.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: next minor release release, remove obsolete headers.
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03:48.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/wdb.c: more compat4 stuff
03:53.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: bn_poly_ root solver routines have the equation as the second param
04:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: comment out the bombardier rules since it's not added yet
04:48.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (5 files in 5 dirs): make their AC_PREREQ match ours
06:50.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: look a little harder for resources, in case db resources are installed in more conventional share dir, for example.
06:58.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/basename.c: garbage in, garbage out -- but at least prevents it from crashing here.
07:27.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: warn during compilation if we don't know how to get the executable's name. check for null types and values so we at least don't crash.
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13:28.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/rtg3/rtg3.vcproj: Initially only settings for release mode.
14:04.02*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:06.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: added test for sys/times.h
14:09.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.dsp: link with ws2_32.lib (select())
14:14.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h:
14:14.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: added some process management functions
14:14.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: removed HAVE_SYS_TIME
14:21.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c:
14:21.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: conditional header inclusion
14:21.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: no SIGCHLD in MS Windows
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16:15.25``Erikhum, that may be the fix
16:42.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: propogate values of --with-x11 to variables used by XTRA and the rest of configure (re-doing the hack that was undone)
16:54.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: fixed edge extraction/vertex bug
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18:42.39``Erikhum, regex.h issue's back on both fbsd and osX :/
18:45.17``Erikthe -Wl,--rpath issue is with both gcc 4.1 and 3.4.6
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070516

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070516

00:17.51*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177679934.dsl.bell.ca)
00:18.29MinstrelGypsyBrepHandler.cpp needs to "assert" itself :)
00:19.43louipcyeah I got that one too
00:19.50MinstrelGypsyheh
00:20.38MinstrelGypsytell it to #include "assert.h"  ;)
00:20.47louipcI actually succeeded in building and installing 7.10.0 but then I couldn't browse geometry heh
00:21.06MinstrelGypsyim still waiting for success
00:21.11louipcI had already pkged and installed jove so that error was skipped
00:21.23MinstrelGypsyjove is fixed in cvs
00:21.31louipcI know :D
00:21.54MinstrelGypsyemacs? blargh, vi forever :D
00:22.18louipcoh not that again hahhh
00:22.40MinstrelGypsyi use midnight commander more often than not
00:24.21louipcevery once in awhile I'll try a file-man but I always go back to shell commands :/
00:24.42MinstrelGypsyi mix the two liberal doses of both
00:25.04MinstrelGypsyfor moving whole directories around it beautifull
00:25.13MinstrelGypsy*its
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03:45.32PrezKennedybrlcad, i forgot my password to bz
03:46.55PrezKennedyHA
04:00.07PrezKennedyi wonder if theres a way to get IRC on my blackberry...
04:07.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: comment that we really should fork and exec instead of use popen so we can close/redirect stderr since sysctl frequently will dump junk there.
04:07.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: instead of just dumping the backtrace, dump a full crash report .. but only do this if DEBUG is defined so we have a better chance at having debug symbols in the stack trace.
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06:27.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: gah, unbreak the root solver -- compat4 params are swapped like the others, just in a pair. thx john!
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13:10.36*** join/#brlcad gioacchino (n=gioacchi@host-84-221-21-170.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)
13:10.52gioacchinohello all
13:11.13gioacchinohow to convert .dwg in .g ?
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14:40.02brlcadgioacchino: dwg drawing files are predominantly 2D data, not solid modeling data -- there isn't a converter
14:42.34brlcadgioacchino: did you get my answer regarding the problem you were having with "in cono.r tcg 1 1 1 1 1 100 1 50 1 50 1 1 1 1 100" .. you're using vectors there that are non-perpendicular, i.e. it's invalid
14:42.58brlcadturning those one's into zero's and you have perpendicularity
14:45.58gioacchinoasp asp
14:46.06gioacchinointanto grazie per la cosa sul dwg
14:49.24gioacchinograzie
14:49.32gioacchinoero gia riuscito a risolvere
14:49.38gioacchinobrlcad:
14:50.05gioacchinoafter creation with in  exiat a metod to modify the solid ?
14:51.23``Eriksed cono.r
14:51.35brlcadthere's a variety of ways .. there are commands for editing objects on the command line, there is a text edit command (ted), there's the edit menu in the gui ..
14:51.47``Erikthen the edit menu will contain primitive specific shtuff
14:52.13brlcadyeah, that's one of the easiest ways
14:52.22gioacchinograzie
14:54.47``ErikC: void greet(char *person) { printf("Hi, %s\n", person); return; }
14:54.54``Eriklisp: (defun greet (person) (format nil "Hi, ~A" person))
14:55.01``Erikscheme: (define (greet person) (println "Hi, " person))
14:55.07``Erik:)
14:55.25``Erik(at least with the trivial case...)
14:55.31``Erikformat is all sorts of skeery
14:58.35brlcadeh, in all fairness, either the void or the return aren't strictly necessary
14:59.33brlcadi think they all just look like code
14:59.39brlcadnone pretty :)
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15:18.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: implement handlers for rational b-spline surfaces and surfaces of revolution
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15:52.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: fixes to make PNG saving work
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18:06.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add wdb lib to new iges converter build
18:09.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (nmain.cpp brlcad_brep.cpp brlcad.hpp): "finish" the topology handling code and write out a test .g file. currently has a bug in the trim curve handling.
18:31.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: wdb comes before rt, bn, bu
18:57.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: set the deep datadir if prefix is default
18:59.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: report on where data files are going to go too
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20:23.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: remove forward decls, they're already in usage order
20:23.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (g_pipe.c g_tgc.c g_torus.c): remove references to the rt_poly routines, refer to bn_poly instead
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20:39.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: apparently, I lied -- they weren't in order yet. now they are, and include doxygenified comments
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070517

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070517

00:38.39*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565613.dsl.bell.ca)
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00:48.13MinstrelGypsywhy must *nix newbies learn the hard way instead of receiving help from those already experienced? Is it a matter of having to earn your wings?
00:53.32``Erikthose who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it?
00:53.40``Erikwhy? what stupid thing did you do? :D
00:54.15MinstrelGypsyurffff   i'm trying to write the text here, not just earn a footnote in it ;)
00:54.32*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613335.dsl.bell.ca)
00:54.42MinstrelGypsyedited configure.ac :P
01:29.25dliBrepHandler.cpp: In member function 'virtual int brlcad::BrepHandler::extractVertex(const brlcad::DirectoryEntry*, int)':
01:29.25dliBrepHandler.cpp:363: error: 'assert' was not declared in this scope
01:38.28louipc_MinstrelGypsy: books are helpful for that hah
01:48.41MinstrelGypsylouipc somebody writes them bwaha
01:50.06MinstrelGypsyi never was one much for taking tests though louipc, specially blood tests, I always fail those :P
01:50.34MinstrelGypsystead of getting an A i get an O :)
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02:34.02*** join/#brlcad Joely (n=joel@adsl-70-131-96-203.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
02:36.49Joelyok i finally got a handle on arbs and other primitive shapes! now...what i need is either a really ingenious idea or do what i would do in povray with a sphere sweep along a spline..i'm trying to make something that looks kinda like this :  http://news.thomasnet.com/images/large/018/18572.jpg  right now i'm concentrating on the main huge threads
02:37.03Joelyany ideas?
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03:17.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: need assert.h for assert()
03:18.01brlcadJoely: the bottom half seems to be a subtracted pipe
03:18.31brlcad(pipes are covered in the advanced modeling tutorial, vol III)
03:19.17brlcadcan do something similar for the finer threads, though the operation is probably different to get the right shape
03:19.41Joelyah ok, so use bending pipes?
03:23.14Joelyoh i found it.....a coil...ok thanks!
03:48.23brlcad``Erik: i'm done hunting and rechecked all of the code related to bn_poly_synthetic_division several times over now .. and haven't found anything ...
03:48.33brlcadand it all works for me when testing ...
03:48.55brlcadsmells like a non-clean build, even though you said you'd cleaned
03:49.50brlcadI rechecked the report from jra and his report was the swapped vars, which is fixed as far as I can tell
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04:01.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: initialize the structs for good measure, even though bn_poly_synthetic_division() will too
04:03.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: ws
04:15.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: ws
04:44.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: fix a bug where an automake failure after a libtool failure resulted in silent termination instead of showing the automake error.
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13:38.50``Erikagain O.o
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17:25.23``Erikok. my bad. crash is gone now, sorry
17:25.45``Erikhad to remove the -Wl args for tk to build though
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18:30.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (31 files in 3 dirs): add the NIST template numerics toolkit (TNT) for more involved matrix manipulations that libbn doesn't cover. TNT is a replacement for LAPACK++. Said matrix manipulations are needed for BREP manipulation.
18:33.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added NIST's Template Numerical Toolkit
19:03.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: grr, newer versions of automake replace the clobbered COPYING/INSTALL files with mode 444. delete them if we're going to restore.
19:04.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.h: Add header file for missing pullback_curve functionality missing from openNURBS
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20:31.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: add pullback_curve to converter files; add tnt lib
20:32.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (PullbackCurve.cpp PullbackCurve.h): begin pullback_curve implementation: sampling stage.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070518

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070518

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04:09.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
04:09.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: add a deprecation list for keeping track of when things can be marked obsolete
04:09.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: and subsequently removed. the general guidelines are to allow removal during a
04:09.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: major update, after at least three minor updates, or after six months ..
04:09.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: whichever comes first.
04:10.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bomb.c: rt_bomb() has technically been deprecated since before 7.0, but even our sources only loosely reflected this via inclusion in compat4.h so begin deprecation now, adding a deprecation message.
04:14.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (110 files in 16 dirs): rt_bomb() has been deprecated since before 7.0, but even our sources weren't properly updated to reflect this change. update all of our sources to use bu_bomb() now.
05:05.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: include a contact e-mail
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13:06.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Replace "get" with "get_type" for all cases where it was being used to determine the existence of an object.
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14:29.06brlcadI'd made a mental note to check out other polynomial root solvers to see if we can get some free performance boosting to the more complex primitives that use it for solving their ray-intersection
14:29.31brlcadi finally got around to testing some today, and have tested four so far that I've run across ..
14:30.07brlcadnot one has come even close to the performance .. closest has been about 300% slower
14:31.28archivisteverone out there re-inventing slower wheels
14:32.09brlcadi actually didn't think ours was "that fast" ..
14:33.39archivista nice shock then
14:33.42brlcadI knew it was good, but nothing ground breaking .. i'm just not even finding anything in the ballpark
14:34.01brlcadwell, it could just be that I've just run across four lemons in a row too
14:34.14brlcadbut so far yeah.. not too shabby for code that old..
14:35.48``Eriky'know, I'm under the impression that older code tends to be MUCH better performance wise
14:35.54``Erikboth asymoptotic and constant
14:35.55``Erik:/
14:36.45brlcadjeff hanes wrote the existing solver back in '85
14:36.46``Erikmachines were slower, they couldn't afford the waste... take a look at regex nfa's... ruby, perl, etc are all abysmal compared to early 70's thompson nfa's (grep, sed), and even tcl blows the doors off of perl for 'difficult' regex's
14:37.42``Erikgot a paper on my desk... lemme find the url...
14:37.46brlcadi was sorta expecting to find a simd'd root solver somewhere that might have a good hand at competing, but so far no luck
14:38.10``Erikhttp://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html
14:38.41``ErikI THINK I got the paper from http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2064
14:38.49archivistheh I look at some modern database stuff and the mid 1980s stuff had some very good ideas that now seem forgotten
14:40.04brlcad``Erik: oh, i'd fully believe that -- I ran into regex issues when I wrote this extensive language filter for bzflag -- expressions that were hundreds of chars long, complex patterns
14:40.16archivistearly 60's bah /me has a 1951 programming book on my desk
14:40.22``Erikheh
14:40.45archivistactually a M.V. Wilkes book
14:40.52brlcadi ended up using the (old) version we have in cad on some systems because it would crash various newer system regex libraries (debian was one)
14:40.53``Erikbrlcad: check out the url I pasted, it might be worth your time :)
14:42.01``Erika 30 character match taking 60 seconds using perl regex and 20 seconds using thompson nfa in awk/grep
14:42.03``Eriker
14:42.06``Erik20 microseconds
14:42.32``Erik.00002 seconds
14:43.04brlcadyeah, i'm not really too surprised by that
14:43.24brlcadthough I was only considering implementations already in the lower graph
14:44.18brlcadmy regex's were hundreds of chars.. and I needed it to test thousands within less than 10ms
14:44.50brlcadi had all the timings worked out, it was rather expensive
14:45.23``Erikheh, (of course, this is the pathological case... which is the word I was searching for yesterday...)
14:47.28brlcadfor the root solving, it could also be the case that all/most were based off some reference implementation that everyone just keeps copying, maybe from graphics gems or something
14:49.30``Erikbrlcad: working from home today?
14:50.12brlcadjust not working
14:50.33``Erikah :) guess I'll stay in for luncht hen :D
14:50.51brlcadgive me some time to poke on some more interesting code stuffs (like the root finding)
14:51.16``Erikopposed to bzflag stuff? :D
14:51.45brlcadthat too
14:53.49brlcadheh, most are
14:54.48``Erikmebbe after my sexp/xml compilers, heh
14:57.00brlcadbah.. paper not included in my ieee membership
14:57.24``Erikhum, think I could get it through the portal?
14:57.46brlcadhttp://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/10248/32586/01524367.pdf?arnumber=1524367
14:59.03``Erik/tmp on you know where
15:09.16brlcadshweet
15:10.16brlcadgah, they're solving arbitrary degree polynomials
15:10.28``Erik(but only since it's explicitely for a BRL-CAD task and all official like that, 'n shtuff, you coulda ran firefox on a work box to get it... :D )
15:10.30brlcaddon't care much past 4th
15:10.47``Erikhum, at least not for the torus
15:10.56brlcadtorus is 4th
15:11.14``Erikif the meatball thing were converted to a root solve, it'd be nth degree
15:11.53``Eriknurbles might leverage >4, I'd imagine... but I don't know jack about those
15:12.16brlcadthe existing will go higher than 4, it's just a compile-time limit
15:12.51``Erikone of my test cases for the brute force approach was 10,000 control points, which I THINK is a 10k order polynomial
15:13.16brlcadmeatballs are good to keep in mind .. though if you have them working direct without root solver, that's probably a better solution anyways
15:13.36``ErikI have an approximation working, it's imperfect
15:13.56brlcaddepends how imperfect :)
15:14.05``Erikum, at the moment, it walks the ray in 1/20 bounding sphere radius steps looking for a sign change, effectively
15:14.07brlcadi mean they are metaballs after all anyways too
15:14.21``Erikthen does a binary partition to find the 'close enough' point
15:14.29``Erikwithin like 1/1000 radius
15:14.31brlcadeek.. a semi-newton iteration
15:14.36``Erikayup
15:15.01``Erikso if the volume were between initial steps, it'd be ignored
15:15.08``Erikwhich gets edge artifacts :/
15:15.23brlcadhow does it deal with the control points?
15:15.30brlcaditerates over each?
15:16.25``Erikum, $v_{V}=\Sigma_{i}\frac{f_{i}}{|V-p_{i}|}$
15:17.05``Eriksrc/librt/g_metaball.c:203
15:17.06brlcadyeah.. that's not useful to me :)
15:17.20``Erikand :220
15:17.39brlcadah, so it does iterate over the points
15:17.42``Erik(shut up, it's ugly, but it works)
15:17.42``Erikyes
15:18.02brlcadlooks like it always does shoot-through too
15:18.08``Erikhas to
15:18.18``Erikyou don't tknow how many chunks of volume it'll go through
15:18.28``Erikwell, heh, n/m
15:18.55``Eriklet me re-read, been a while since I've looked
15:19.14``Erikno, I think it stops on first hi, always
15:19.52``Erikno, wait, I do have one-hit in there, :259
15:20.53brlcadah, there it is.. first line in shot()
15:21.55``Erik(bear in mind, the "tactical" purpose for the work was to hook directly to the point evaluator, the shot is just visual candy) :/
15:22.11brlcadhm, would actually be interesting to see how the root solver fairs
15:22.29brlcadi'd suspect it'd have trouble converging on arbitrary large-point metas
15:22.41brlcadmebbie, dunno
15:22.44clock_brlcad: the rendering seems to be extremely slow if screws cut in half are present in the scene, even when they take up just a tiny amount of pixels
15:23.16``Erikone of the future enhancements was to go beyond point and handle line and tri-mesh, perhaps totally arbitrary geometry... :/
15:23.31``Erikwhich'd greatly complicate the root solve method
15:23.35brlcadclock_: it's shouldn't depend on the amount of pixels -- it would be how long it spends on those pixels
15:24.05brlcadhaving them in the scene is going to slow down neighboring pixels some too due to space partitioning
15:24.11clock_brlcad: I made the screw a group of turns, each turn is a group of slanted cylinders. So it has a hierarchical structure
15:25.02``Erikin the geometry tree, it may b e clean... but the raytracing uses a KD-tree, too
15:25.06brlcadyour csg tree might be unoptimized too, which could be slowing things way down
15:26.21brlcad``Erik: do you know anything about /var/tmp disappearing on .bz?
15:26.26``Erikno?
15:26.38brlcadit's been getting deleted automatically for a couple days now
15:26.39``Erikanything in the sudo log?
15:26.41``Erikugh
15:26.42brlcadnothing
15:26.51``Erikgrep -ri /var/tmp /etc
15:26.52``Erik?
15:27.14``Erikalso; sudo crontab -l
15:27.15brlcadyup, nothing of interest
15:27.22brlcadalso checked
15:27.28``Erikhum, /var/tmp should only be deletable by r00tus r00tus
15:27.44``Eriknone of my boxen of that os lose their /var/tmp :/
15:27.49brlcadexactly -- i was (hoping) you'd set something up to see what all would break
15:28.15``Erikno, if I'm commiting crazy break testing, I do it on a machine I can walk to and physically touch
15:28.35``Erikif you think I'm willing to drive to florida to log in on console and fix something, you need to pass that pipe O.o :D
15:28.42brlcadi've got a watch thread going now to see if/when it disappears
15:28.51brlcadit's been happening for like three days now
15:29.21``Erikthe only thing I've done on that machine in the last week or two is log in, run irssi for a minute, kill irssi and log out
15:30.37brlcadi made a symlink this time, no particular reason
15:31.06brlcadonly thing suspicious is rootkit attempts via http
15:31.11brlcadto /var/tmp
15:31.27``Erikthat'd be bad
15:31.50brlcadbut they seemed rather benign .. they download a linux binary and try to run it
15:32.04``Erikum, linuxulator is off, right?
15:32.08brlcadit doesn't get that far, of course, though even if it did, it'd fail (tested it ;)
15:32.14brlcadright
15:32.44``Erikummmmm, got 'fam' on the machine?
15:32.48``Erikor tripwire?
15:33.05brlcadso i'm thinking maybe some php intrusion is getting through.. but the worst it can do is delete it's tmpdir
15:33.49``Erikbut only root should be able to rm that dir, and everything php/httpd should touch should be www:www
15:33.50brlcadnot at the moment, though pieces of what those do are running
15:34.41``Erikmight be worth putting a tail -f on some /var/log stuff that dumps to another machine
15:34.42brlcadi'm just reaching.. it's the only hint that even generally involved /var/tmp
15:35.54brlcadi'm going to wait for the while test to fail.. so at least i'll have a timeframe that I can hunt for in all the logs
15:36.13``Erikaight *shrug*
15:36.36``Erikif it's integrity related, that's serious
15:38.37brlcadi'm not finding anything that indicates one way or the other so far, just guessing
15:39.00brlcadjust like asking you was a guess that you might be up to something, however unlikely
15:39.14``Eriknope, not my doing
15:39.38brlcadnoticed /usr/tmp being added/removed for portupgrade through the searching, figued "maybe"
15:40.35``Erik/usr/tmp was added cuz it's "normal" to have it, and removed cuz you complained... if portupgrade is doing it, *shrug* I d'no... but I've been using portmanager and those all leave sudo footprints
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15:48.20``Erikhrmph
15:53.04brlcadi don't see why i'd even care
15:53.33``Erikhrm, you didn't want that dir there "to see what would break" iirc
15:53.56``Erikwanna grab lunch somewhere? I'm trying to decide whether to bust open a can of soup or not :/
15:54.02brlcadthat was more "it'd be interesting to see what breaks" .. though nothing did
15:54.11brlcaddidn't really care either way to begin with
15:54.39``Erik<-- tries to limit his involvement with that machine
15:56.02brlcad*shrug*
15:56.51brlcadah, i already started munching on a sandwhich about an hour ago when someone mentioned food
15:57.19``Erikaight, canned stuff it is :) I'm hitting the grocery store tonight, so'z I can replenish my supplies, don't gotta worry about being down to the last can
15:58.35``Erikheh, I'm sure mm woulda loaned you a cup o' newdlez
15:58.54``Erik<-- prefers keeping cans of progresso, is getting old :(
15:58.58brlcadnot my fav
15:59.22brlcadi was on a progressor fix a few years ago .. but that died down after a few months
15:59.56brlcadramen's never died down though.. i turn those babies into gourmet
16:04.44``Erikheh
16:05.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: disable unnecessary libtool test for fortran
16:06.37``Erik(do we have any fortran?)
16:07.14``Erikf2c would be handy for "those other guys"
16:16.23brlcadwe provide one example file on how to shoot a ray in fortran
16:17.30brlcadso .. yes we do, but we still don't need a fortran compiler
16:17.30``Erikhum, I see two .f files
16:17.30brlcadoh yeah, one in patch too
16:17.36brlcadalso not used
16:18.02``Erikif the conv/patch one just a remnant? can it be rm'd?
16:18.22brlcadyeah
16:18.39brlcadjust a helper tool to much with patch input files
16:18.44brlcads/much/muck/
16:32.55brlcadwow, the GNU scientific library's solver is horribly slow
16:34.51brlcadgsl is 220 seconds vs libbn's 9 seconds
16:35.10``Erikheh
16:35.49brlcadi had higher hopes for them ..
16:36.13brlcadtheirs may be, however, significantly more robust
16:36.49brlcadthat could certainly be affecting numbers.. but that is still a huge gap
16:37.15brlcadbest so far has been about 30 seconds
16:37.30brlcad(solving 50M random 4th degree polynomials)
16:46.58``Eriksweet, my last car payments looks like it'll be around july 5th
16:47.08``Eriks/s / /
16:55.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: change root solver to have coefficients in the right order
18:05.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: implement b-spline interpolation: generating knots and parameters. next up: generating the control points.
18:37.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: convert use of vector to TNT arrays. implement control point generation using JAMA's LU decomposition.
18:48.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/PullbackCurve.cpp: implement nurbs curve generation. an attempt at simplification (test for arc?) should be done at some point.
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19:52.47brlcadwell, finally found one that is slightly faster, but it fails to produce a solution
19:54.05``Erik"My diet of McDonalds and pizza keeps me regular. I take one huge, painful, bloody dump every four days; regular as clockwork."
19:55.04brlcadheh
19:55.27``Erik(yes, I'm reading poll comments on slashdot. :(  )
19:55.51``Erik"When I wake up in the morning, I just can't get started until I've had that first, piping hot pot of coffee. Oh, I've tried other enemas..."
20:02.35archivisthehe
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20:12.01brlcadhah, so it was just slightly faster, because it was calling an _empty_ base class.. that was all overhead
20:19.27``Erikneat, saw a couple broad-headed skinks infront of the building
20:21.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c: commentification
20:36.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: refactor complex.h and plane.h
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23:33.55*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:33.55*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
23:35.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/avs.c:
23:35.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: first stab at fixing a memory leak on attribute names -- appears to be during a
23:35.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: merge, where adding to an existing doesn't free the existing name (when a new
23:35.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: one is provided). clean up the avs printing summary and doxygen comments too.
23:43.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: ws
23:46.41*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
23:46.41*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
23:54.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: close/free file pointers and buffers on shutdown
23:55.36*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601318.dsl.bell.ca)
23:56.44MinstrelGypsytclUnixTime.c in tcl/unix line 609, shouldn't that be _gettimeofday?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070519

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070519

00:04.17MinstrelGypsymmmm 409,409,you're so fine ;)
00:08.08MinstrelGypsymulti-threaded rt, fire a batch of rays and wait on completion sigs, I guess.
00:09.20MinstrelGypsywith semaphoring that should be doable, see you next month :)
00:11.35MinstrelGypsyis there an equivelent to DosWaitEventSem(SEM_INDEFINITE_WAIT) in ansi c?
00:24.56MinstrelGypsycould do it with disk files, I guess, if waitformetogoaway no longer exists resume execution
00:30.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: remove dead decls (#if 0'd). remove obsolete compat macros (also #if 0'd). the decls mostly use private structures, which means they shouldn't be in the public interface (i.e. this file) regardless.
00:31.50brlcadMinstrelGypsy: that's a question for the tcl folks
00:31.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: okay to assume c89, remove some of the compat decls for older compilers
00:32.32brlcad(re tclunixtime)
00:32.45brlcadi looked at your 9.9.9 mingw build, by the way
00:33.34MinstrelGypsyand?
00:33.41brlcadit actually looked rather good -- would have been distributable had it not relied on X11, but a far better port on the whole regardless
00:34.15MinstrelGypsythankyou, ill try to get an ogl build out hopefully next week
00:34.23MinstrelGypsyof 7.10
00:34.28brlcadyou'll actually want wgl to build
00:34.37brlcadthat's the native windows interface
00:34.50MinstrelGypsythanks will look at that too
00:35.06brlcadnot ogl specifically.. that will rely on x11
00:35.21MinstrelGypsymay not be any other way to do it
00:35.33brlcadsure there is .. that's what the wgl interface is for
00:35.41brlcadand how it's built through studio
00:35.59MinstrelGypsyis wgl supposed to be compuled with msvc?
00:36.02brlcadmingw one-up's the studio build because it can build the other 300 apps with no effort
00:36.02MinstrelGypsyah
00:36.11brlcadno, not specifically
00:36.29MinstrelGypsyi understand
00:37.00brlcadit doesn't matter -- that is the native interface, the other is the x11 one -- for a windows distribution, even through cygwin/mingw it should use wgl
00:37.15MinstrelGypsywill try
00:37.22brlcadundoubted will take some configure.ac mods and mods to the Makefile.am files
00:37.43MinstrelGypsymakefile.am why?
00:37.48brlcadat least src/libfb/Makfile.am src/libdm/Makefile.am and probably src/mged/Makefile.am
00:37.52MinstrelGypsyconfigure i can see
00:37.59brlcadso that it actually tries to compile wgl
00:38.08brlcadi dont' remember if I added them
00:38.17MinstrelGypsyyou mean thats not in there i never looked, will tend to it
00:38.23brlcadah, never mind
00:38.25brlcadi did add them
00:38.28brlcadso yeah, just configure.ac
00:38.29MinstrelGypsyah i get it
00:38.35MinstrelGypsygood
00:38.43brlcadgetting --with-wgl to work
00:38.51MinstrelGypsythats doable
00:39.16brlcadprobably both, --with-wgl and --without-opengl
00:39.24MinstrelGypsyright
00:42.38MinstrelGypsyyou guys say type make benchmark to run the benchmark suite, its actually should be make bench
00:45.06MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/496048   <--- benching 7.10.1
00:45.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: bb comment for searching
00:47.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: remove dead macros (already marked for deprecation)
00:50.47MinstrelGypsy2880 times faster than vgr, hah
00:51.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h fb.h fbio.h nmg.h pkg.h tclcad.h): don't force USE_PROTOTYPES to be necessarily set to get what we usually want anyways (i.e. proper decls with args) -- check for __STDC__ too to determine how to declare.
01:28.23MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/496085  <---- runtime, yea
01:33.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: differentiate allocation
01:34.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb.c: sanity nulls
01:34.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: meh
01:35.08MinstrelGypsyhttp://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   windowsside albumn->success   :)
01:36.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: rewrite the attribute serialization -- valgrind was reporting invalid memory reads in the bcopy, past what should be valid. new version uses memcpy and takes extra effort to handle null avs names/values.
01:36.22MinstrelGypsyrot 90 0 0 works
01:36.38brlcadwhy should it "actually" be make bench?
01:37.03brlcadit intentionally supports either
01:37.15MinstrelGypsybecause thats what you have to type to get it to run, at least on my copy and i havent chaned a thing concerning that
01:37.31MinstrelGypsydidnt support benchmark here
01:37.39MinstrelGypsyno rule etc
01:37.40brlcadthat's because it intentionally supports both .. or are you saying make benchmark doesn't work on yours?
01:37.48MinstrelGypsyright
01:37.53MinstrelGypsydoesnt work
01:37.59brlcadheh, you should say that!
01:38.04brlcadan entirely different statement
01:38.07MinstrelGypsyhah
01:38.41MinstrelGypsynow wgl eh
01:39.08brlcadi don't see how make benchmark wouldn't run for you unless you've editing the makefile.am
01:39.29MinstrelGypsyhave *not edited it does not run
01:39.40MinstrelGypsyjust a sec
01:39.43brlcadwhat directory are you in when you run it
01:40.18MinstrelGypsytypo my mistake you're absololutly right
01:40.36MinstrelGypsymake benhcmark doh!!!
01:41.14MinstrelGypsygood thing you were'nt asleep :)
01:44.05MinstrelGypsysame url --> success2
01:44.15MinstrelGypsydifferent angle
01:44.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: clobber is phony
01:45.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am: the benchmark itself needs to know how to clean up after itself, but go ahead and add the same support for 'make clobber' to delete the plethora of log and pixfiles generated after a run
01:46.08MinstrelGypsybtw there are some of those in cvs
01:46.18brlcadsome of what?
01:46.24MinstrelGypsylogs and pix
01:46.28brlcadif it's in cvs, chances are I know about it
01:46.35MinstrelGypsyok
01:46.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): tick tock, 5 secs, boom.
01:46.56brlcadof course there are.. those are the reference results used to compute your vgr/benchmark statistics
01:47.09MinstrelGypsydoh :)
01:51.07MinstrelGypsysame url ---> success3   diferrent view on things, and ill stop now
01:55.18MinstrelGypsybwahah stereo frame buffers, fbserv you are good :)
01:57.26MinstrelGypsysame url ---> stereo
01:57.31MinstrelGypsy:)
01:59.33MinstrelGypsyall this on my "toy" cygwin system :)
02:00.18MinstrelGypsywhere's the windup key
02:05.51MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/496120 <--- just so you know its really running a portion of your help screen
02:06.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (15 files): welcome to 1990, replace calls to bcopy with memcpy. interestingly enough, valgrind on amd64 linux is showing bcopy() reading more than len bytes (reading to aligned memory internally)
02:19.43brlcadunless you're implying you're untrustworthy, that's not necessary :P
02:20.31MinstrelGypsyheh frayed knot (to being untrustworthy) :)
02:22.13MinstrelGypsybenchmark didn't clean up after itself :P
02:22.44brlcadit's not supposed to
02:22.54MinstrelGypsycvs complained
02:22.59brlcadhuh?
02:23.12brlcadyou mean all the ?'s?
02:23.13MinstrelGypsydoing an update
02:23.16MinstrelGypsyyes
02:23.48brlcadthose aren't exactly complaints, just unknown files
02:24.04brlcadyou can add *.pix *.log to the .cvsignore if you don't want to see them
02:24.11brlcader *.pix* *.log*
02:24.18MinstrelGypsyill let you fix the wgl stuff in configure, i'm just gonnna hard code it in for now
02:24.21MinstrelGypsyi know
02:25.28brlcadsomeone (tm) can add cleanup support to the benchmark suite, i certainly wouldn't object
02:25.28brlcadjust not exactly high on any list of concerns
02:25.28MinstrelGypsynor mine
02:25.28brlcadthen why mention it :P
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02:28.16brlcadwith that commit earlier, you can run "make clobber" to clean up after the benchmark
02:28.39MinstrelGypsythankyou i retrieved it
02:28.51MinstrelGypsyand will test it
02:28.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): be even more specific on clobber file patterns
02:29.00MinstrelGypsyif i get this built again
02:32.30Twingysean, what'd you write down for the waiver on the macbook pro's
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03:38.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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05:40.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_io.c: plug a memory leak in asc2g, identified via valgrind, whereby an AVS was getting clobbered shortly after being initialized. simply needed to initialize it without allocating.
06:16.09louipcnice
06:27.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: comment that bu_ptbl_init does indeed allocate :-/
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06:54.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: call Tcl_Exit() instead of exit() so that tcl can attempt to recover and cleanup resource prior to shutdown -- alas, tcl doesn't clean up properly, but using Tcl_Exit is at least sufficient according to the docs.
06:54.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb.c: doxy
07:01.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c:
07:01.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: if a raytrace instance isn't being provided, we can/could presume that cleaning
07:01.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: up after the directories is okay. all of these issues stem from the two
07:01.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: bu_ptbl_init() calls that do actually allocate memory (for the table). leave
07:01.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: the freeing uncommited for now, just with comments
07:04.13yukonbobhow "buildable" is the 7.10.0 code -- is it considered stable, or a work-in-progress?
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14:48.26brlcadyukonbob: it's always both, but in general considered stable
14:49.11brlcadthat said, there is a file missing from the source distribution in one of the 3rd-party packages (jove), so you have to disable that package (--disable-jove)
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15:47.26louipc/var/abs/local/brlcad-cvs/src/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: libtcl8.5.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
15:47.43louipcI got that error when building :/
15:50.48louipcah that's when it does ../src/conv/asc2g bldg391.asc bldg391.g
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17:07.54MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/497110  <----- why would cvs be telling me this?
17:12.53MinstrelGypsythis smells of rotting aquatic marine life
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19:39.52Joelyhi, I can't seem to get ADRT/RISE to compile.. :-/ I installed every last sdl package and there's still all these undefined references to libsdl...this is totally a problem with _my_ setup right?
20:04.42Twingydid you install sdl?
20:05.30Twingycheck if you have a sdl-config
20:13.04Joelyyup i definitely do
20:13.35Joely# sdl-config --libs
20:13.35Joely-L/usr/lib -lSDL
20:13.37Twingypaste a few lines of your output
20:17.21Joelyhttp://pastebin.ca/497353
20:18.02Twingyhow did you install SDL
20:18.07Twingycompile or package?
20:18.52Joelypackage from apt
20:19.09Twingylooks like it didn't pick up all the (right) dependencies
20:19.56Twingyyou could always try compiling it
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070520

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070520

00:04.11*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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04:36.00*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
04:36.01*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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17:48.58MinstrelGypsythink i'll give up on the 7.10 code tree
17:52.18smallfoot-oh?
17:53.52MinstrelGypsywon't build, always bombs out on fbserv with undefines to X stuff
17:54.17MinstrelGypsy``Erik helped me but still happens
17:54.55MinstrelGypsy7.8.4 is reliable ...here :)
17:55.02smallfoot-oh
18:06.35louipcwell someone's gonna have to work out the kinks :P
18:07.07smallfoot-ya
18:07.41MinstrelGypsykinks? man we're talking 90 degree warps :P
18:08.10louipcjust need a bigger iron
18:09.07MinstrelGypsyheh it stands up to howitzer shells
18:13.21MinstrelGypsybugious unfindablness ( have come across a few in my time )    :)
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19:02.21MinstrelGypsyhttp://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos  work albumn   works
19:32.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): even more specific, to be sure we only delete benchmark files by iterating over each test.
19:38.01MinstrelGypsysame url 2 photos, caught in the act and act complete, dunno why it flipped but...
19:45.35MinstrelGypsygot it working with xming too (happy daze) :)
20:15.04louipc_xml error here
20:15.23louipc_MinstrelGypsy: for your page
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20:21.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
20:21.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: revamp the implementation of most path-finding routines, and add a new
20:21.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: bu_argv0_full_path() routine for determining the full-path to the current
20:21.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: executing binary. remove the atexit memory handler, instead using static
20:21.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: buffers. give bu_ipwd() one more means to determine the current path (via
20:21.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: invoking pwd).
20:22.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): change bu_argv0() to not take any parameters, preferring instead that apps only use bu_setprogname(), passing the full argv[0].
20:23.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_argv0_full_path() and remove the bu_argv0() argument
20:25.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (whereis.c which.c): clean up debug to indicate the function name, remove the latter checking statement (since bu_file_exists has its own)
20:28.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c:
20:28.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: massive refactoring of the src path handling including avoiding the dynamic
20:28.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: atexit memory fugliness. improve the actual searching for a src dir to not
20:28.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: require allocations. actually only check for init.tcl/tk.tcl one now. make the
20:28.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: entire routine more cross-platform, using BU_DIR_SEPARATOR and BU_PATH_SEPARATOR
20:28.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: respectively when building up and searching for paths.
21:55.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: plug a leak valgrind detected, free the searched vls in root/data routines.
22:28.48MinstrelGypsyyou mean you guys aren't seeing that page?
22:31.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: free allocated memory for cmd_list vls
22:45.54MinstrelGypsywindows firefox loads it fine
22:47.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c ged.c): unlink the variables we link on shutdown so we can clean up memory tcl allocated for managing them. delete the tcl interpreter on shutdown too.
23:15.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: ack, pass mged_global_variable_teardown a freaking interpreter. release our semaphores too.
23:44.59MinstrelGypsywork albumn -> rotated (it works)
23:49.19MinstrelGypsybtw thats running in a pure windows environment
23:51.14bjorkBSDpure as in no cygwin?
23:51.23MinstrelGypsybonus... works with winaxepro too
23:51.40MinstrelGypsyas in several cygwin dlls included
23:52.44MinstrelGypsydon't need to have Cygwin installed or even cygwinx
23:53.34MinstrelGypsydo you need to see the winaxepro pix or will you take my word for it :)
23:54.40MinstrelGypsytime to go smell the cedars, bbiab :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070521

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070521

00:30.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.c: release allocated resources, clean valgrind report
00:46.03*** join/#brlcad Feernando (n=chatzill@200.175.72.210.dialup.gvt.net.br)
02:07.52MinstrelGypsybrlcad: in about 5 hours, you can evaluate a mingw build of brlcad-7.8.4 that has the ogl interface enabled, let me know will you.
02:13.33MinstrelGypsyremember the \tmp dir :)
03:21.49brlcadMinstrelGypsy: I already told you that I'm completely not interested in versions prior to 7.10
03:24.15brlcadit would be a waste of time, and stagnates development progress
04:20.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: free the semaphore structures we allocated
04:21.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: apparently attr and make_name were added
04:25.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: unix and drawDataAxes added
04:28.01brlcadalso, you say you have troubles compiling 7.10.0 but so far you are the only one reporting these issues, so you'll either have to help track the issues down or it will stay that way until someone else runs into the issue
04:28.51brlcadi'm not about to just randomly guess based on the random bits of info you often relay back, also not an efficient use of time
04:33.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (15 files in 15 dirs):
04:33.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: since tcl/tk are being compiled dynamic now instead of static and because
04:33.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: they're not libtool libraries, libtool fails to find their uninstalled
04:33.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: .so/.dylib files in src/other, and the wrapper script over binaries fails to
04:33.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: search the provided -L paths. so here we manually set LD/DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH
04:33.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: before attempting to invoke the (uninstalled) binary during the compilation
04:33.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: process.
04:53.59*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
04:53.59*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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05:07.11*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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05:54.10*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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06:55.48*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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15:04.17*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667725.dsl.bell.ca)
15:05.58louipcwoohoo it compiled
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15:14.03louipchehe
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15:46.44MinstrelGypsyif louipc got it to compile, maybe i won't give up on 7-10 :)
16:06.14louipcMinstrelGypsy: yeah!
16:06.34MinstrelGypsygood going :)
16:11.58MinstrelGypsygotta get this freaking thing going, the build i uploaded last night is only 7.8.4, just wanted to prove a point :)
16:23.07*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141010.customer.alfanett.no)
17:03.51louipc./bench/run.sh: line 843: bc: command not found
17:05.53louipcI also got this when running 'make benchmark' -> moss.pix: No such file or directory
17:06.03louipcI do have the file in pix/
17:08.32``Erikerm, you don't have bc installed? O.o
17:08.33louipcguess not
17:08.35louipchahh
17:08.49``Erikit's a fairly core program... an infix calculator
17:09.38louipcah it's not installed by default on my distro
17:10.39louipcok still the error for pix files
17:11.21``Erikdid you build in-dir or out of? and where are you r unning 'make benchmark'? and I assume that's 7.10.0 ?
17:11.46louipccvs in the root dir
17:11.58louipcshould I got to bench/ ?
17:12.03louipc*go to
17:12.17``ErikI don't think so... *shrug* I d'no :D I dont' run benchmarks often
17:12.43louipcI'm not interested in it usually just decided to test it
17:19.23louipc``Erik: does brlcad use bc elsewhere? I may have to add it as a depends
17:19.39louipcor dependency
17:19.42``ErikI don't think so... I might fix it so it doesn't use bc :/ *shrug*
17:20.13``Eriklike use tclsh instead o.O
17:20.24louipcyeah that makes sense
17:21.59``Erikhrmmmm, brlcad.spec.in uses it to guess at how parallel to make the build (redhat crap)
17:23.57``Eriklooks like that's it
17:24.40louipcok just worried about run-time use in scripts
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17:25.18``Eriknot that I can see
17:35.28louipcah I see the RAYTRACE error is just reporting tests on the pix files. seems like it's actually a problem with finding libtk8.5.so . That's what all the log files give
17:36.50``Erikhum, this is before installing? might have to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
17:38.27louipcI figured it'd work pre-install as INSTALL seems to imply
17:43.06louipcok I set that path and it's working
17:43.13``Erikit used to, but the tk stuff has been getting dramatically re-done
17:43.20``Erikto facilitate aqua-tk I think
17:43.59``Erik(remember, cvs is the work in progress... it SHOULD be far better in the releases...)
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17:44.11louipc:D
17:44.36louipci also needed to specify the dir for the tcl library
17:46.36``Erikneato, rt crashed and spammed a busted stack into rt-<pid>-bomb.log
17:46.49louipc!
17:50.53``Erikkill(getpid(),9); neato :D
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19:52.38brlcadlouipc: intersting.. it's supposed to fall back to dc if there is no bc
19:53.06brlcadthough it's quite odd that you'd not have bc .. it's one of the older calculators
19:53.28brlcaddoesn't matter if you go to bench or run via make
19:53.29``ErikI know debian has the ability to exist without bc or dc installed... :/
19:53.54``Erikand I d'no if using expr for shell math is adequate :)
19:54.09brlcadyeah, I've seen debian without bc, though I think dc is in the base
19:54.28brlcadit isn't, or I would have used it
19:54.41brlcadneed floating point arith
19:55.02brlcadthe problem is that it failed to detect bc was missing, should be a simple fix
19:55.23pooliohey brlcad, any news?
19:55.41brlcadpoolio: you've been the talk of the week
19:55.47pooliooh boy =)
20:05.15louipcbc and dc come in the same pkg in my distro heh
20:07.31louipcit's not installed by default but is in the 'core' of pkgs
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20:56.08brlcadlouipc: does your os have a packaging system?
20:56.27brlcadif it does, i'd just make that 'core' a dependency and be done with it :)
20:56.59louipcbrlcad: yep that was my thought
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070522

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070522

00:54.06*** join/#brlcad Joely (n=joel@adsl-71-147-42-12.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
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12:52.13``Erikhrmph, a fire on the cutty sark :/
13:07.24archivistA bit grim yes, good job the best bits were off site
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14:02.17``Erikwhich users are whining about as it doesn't work on linux/amd64, according to a hallway discussion
14:41.54``Erik"shady missionaries... er, mercenaries! MERCENARIES!"
14:49.38brlcad``Erik: all of the commands that end up invoking an xterm/new window/editor are reportedly non-functional
14:49.45brlcadted, red, edcode, etc
14:51.49``Erikok, dave l told me that people were whining to him about the installed versions on those linux opterons
14:52.08``Erikso I said I'd mention it to you, as it may've been fixed or already known
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18:18.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/Makefile.am: example build rules to make compile a test program
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18:45.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/remapid.c: s/ -> /->/
18:56.41``ErikGRASS ZAMBONI!
18:57.30smallfoot-i dont know grass zamboni
19:01.54``Erikhttp://www.comet7.com/
19:41.20MinstrelGypsyhow to be the king of the yard, lie down when the grass zamboni passes by :)
19:53.45``Erikhttp://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/kitty_battery.jpg
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20:18.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (3 files): new bounding volume support for opennurbs (part of closestPoint impl)
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20:28.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/ (brlcad_brep.cpp PullbackCurve.cpp): add debugging output and modify to call new pullback_curve routine. discovered openNURBS does not implement GetClosestPoint!!!
20:29.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: add files to build bounding volume code (in development)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070523

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070523

00:18.54*** join/#brlcad Joely (n=joel@adsl-71-147-42-12.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
00:20.29Joelyugh, i cannot get the g-* converters working on my database.... it fails with :  bu_bomb(): taking longjmp up to application handler : FAILED in Boolean evaluation: /torx_screw.c/torx_hex.c
00:20.38Joelyany ideas?
00:22.25Twingytry doing a g2asc and asc2g
00:25.03Joelyok that worked
00:25.11Joelybut still no luck with things like g-obj
00:29.17Twingysounds like a bug
00:29.25Twingydoes it work on the sample databases?
00:31.35Joelyyup
00:31.54Twingycorrupt database maybe?
00:31.58Joelyi don't think so....it renders fine...
00:32.29Joelywant me to send the database? all it is is a very simple bolt
00:37.06Twingykinda busy atm, might want to bug "brlcad" about it
00:37.43Joelyah ok, thanks
00:51.36MinstrelGypsybrlcad: that 7.8.4 mingw build i sent, I know its old code, but do what you want with it, and i'm still working on 7.10
02:22.42MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/503886   <---- my "toy compiler" spotted this :)
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03:10.02MinstrelGypsysomebody asked me an honest question yesterday, "What do you do man?", I answered quite honestly, not much of anything really.
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04:00.31brlcadJoely: i'll let you know what I find out
04:01.01Joelythanks!
04:08.33brlcadJoely: how fast is your computer? :)
04:08.52Twingywhat kinda chip you got in there a dorrito?
04:08.53brlcadit is just a tesselation tolerance issue because the threads are so tiny
04:09.04bjorkBSDhahah
04:09.10brlcadthey're pressing up against the minimium distance tolerance threshold
04:09.48brlcadso it's basically trying to resolve polygons that are bigger than your threads themselves, and saying "not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent"
04:09.54Joelyhmm it's 2.4 ghz...amd64
04:09.59JoelyOHHH
04:10.01brlcadokay, that shouldn't be too bad
04:10.13brlcadtry: g-obj -D 0.0001 -o test.obj ZIFFG256.g torx_screw.c
04:10.17Joelyoh
04:10.20Joelyok
04:10.21brlcadit'll take a couple minutes
04:10.34brlcadstupid N^3 algorithm in there
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04:14.34brlcadyou could even do 0.001 and it should converge
04:16.22Twingysean, I got poor mans xm satellite radio now
04:16.52Twingyshell script that sucks down a few hours of my favorite streaming radio stations and puts on my 2GB microsd card each morning that I pop into my phone
04:17.39brlcadhah
04:17.44Twingy8 hours of music for 5 stations
04:17.54Twingyin case I get tired of one
04:18.01brlcadthat's funny
04:18.18Twingyit's not like it matters that it's old...
04:18.24Twingyunless you are listening to news I guess
04:18.36brlcadyeah, so long as it's not news channels or something
04:18.43Twingyjah
04:19.08Twingyin a couple years I'm sure my phone will hold 4 or 8GB... so maybe I'll do tv too
04:19.16Twingyyou remember my tv tuner card in the bsd box?
04:19.35TwingyI could do little mpgs too I suppose
04:19.39Twingyhand held tivo ^_^
04:19.50brlcadpoor mans itv?
04:20.03Twingystargate on my phone would be nifty
04:20.50Twingywould help pass the time in those drug / security training things
04:21.15Twingythose itv boxes get hot!
04:21.24Twingyyou can cook ramen noodles on them
04:21.58Joelybrlcad! it worked!
04:22.02Joelythank you very much!
04:26.53brlcadJoely: no problem, glad to be of service
04:27.17brlcadbe interested in seeing your completed model
04:28.06Joelyreally? i'm trying to make a zif socket!
04:29.50brlcadyeah, any brl-cad models become showcase material, stuff to share and show what sorts of neat things others are doing
04:31.00Twingypath trace it ;)
04:34.04brlcadmaybe that's what I'll do this weekend
04:34.27brlcad(in a box, whatever)
04:35.27brlcadTwingy: do I need to model the light in brl-cad or in your format? (i.e. will it convert my lights)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070524

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070524

00:23.31*** part/#brlcad louipc__ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669722.dsl.bell.ca)
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03:19.35cadguyGreetings all
03:27.28MinstrelGypsyhowdy
03:37.42cadguysunset tonight in SLC was pretty
03:38.40cadguyHow about C
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16:18.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_math.h opennurbs_math.cpp): Add simple near_zero function
16:34.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/brlcad_boundingvolume.h: Implement intersection routines
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17:14.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (brlcad_surfacetree.cpp brlcad_surfacetree.h Makefile.am): Sketch out skeleton surfacetree implementation and add to opennurbs build
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18:28.38b0efwhen using dxf-g, I get a db with all the objects displayed as one; any way to prevent this?
18:29.06b0efI get an object called Meshes.c.1/R
18:30.59b0efwhen I draw this, it draws every original object
18:31.30brlcadnot sure I follow the question
18:31.36brlcadwhat's in Meshes.c.1?
18:31.54b0efwell, I used blender to create some objects, then exported it to a DXF file
18:32.12b0efwhen I convert the DXF to g, every object is now one object, to my understanding
18:33.21b0efI've never done this before, so I might be thinking wrong or doing something wrong
18:33.43b0efI expected when I do ls in the database, that every object gets its own name
18:34.47b0efwhen I do "draw Meshes.c.1", it draws everything on the screen, even though Meshes.c.1 was originally multiple objects
18:34.49brlcadit depends on what's actually in the dxf file, structurally
18:35.11brlcadMeshes.c.1 indicates that is a combination of some thing(s)
18:35.29brlcadrun "l Meshes.c.1" or use the Geometry Browser under the tools menu
18:35.40brlcadto see what is "in" Meshes.c.1
18:36.22b0efright, it lists "u bot.s1"
18:36.52brlcadjust the one object, eh?
18:37.40b0efI'm trying to copy the text it outputted;)
18:38.21b0efbut, yeah, only lists one object
18:38.33b0efso something is wrong with blender DXF export, then
18:38.51brlcadglancing through the sources, it's going to make a combination for every layer in the dxf
18:39.04brlcadnot necessarily, it could simply be a limitation of the dxf improter
18:39.29b0efright, so I should export two DXF files and merge the databases, then
18:39.39b0efif I want two objects, that is
18:39.48brlcadyeah, probably
18:39.56b0efright, I'll try; thanks
18:40.22brlcadhm, yeah, looking at the sources now, it looks like the only groupings it is going to make is one per layer and one for a top-level
18:40.45brlcadyou could put each object into a layer into blender, then export one dxf -- that should bring them all in separate
18:41.06b0efright, I'll try
18:43.06b0efhmm, no
18:43.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: enhance dxf-g to create more than just one combination per layer
18:43.58b0efwell, it's still one combination, here
18:46.27brlcadyou have an 'all' object along with at least one Meshes.c.# object, yes?
18:46.37b0efyes
18:46.38brlcadblender's dxf exporter might not preserve layers
18:46.54b0efI see
18:47.01brlcadhave to look in the dxf file, see if there are multiple layer directives
18:47.18b0efyeah, I'm looking now
18:47.23b0efanything I can grep for?;)
18:47.42brlcadi don't remember the format that well, probably LAYER something
18:47.49b0efit says SECTION 2
18:48.06brlcadhttp://images.autodesk.com/adsk/files/dxf_format.pdf
18:48.23b0efright, thanks
18:51.19brlcadyeah, LAYER followed by a name
18:51.44b0efweird, no LAYER in that file;)
18:52.00brlcadah, so then yeah -- blender's not preserving layers
18:52.07b0efindeed
18:52.25b0efdo you plan to support collada?
18:55.35b0efright, exported as two files and merged database;) - thanks
18:56.13brlcadcollada's been on the radar for a few years
18:56.33brlcadit's a less than ideal format, but we'll probably end up supporting it just because of popularity to gaming systems
18:58.33b0efI thought it was the answer to the prayers, after it got NURBS atleast;)
18:58.55b0efs/got/gets/
19:12.15brlcadit certainly helps -- and having nurbs and bspline surface support does make it exceptionally more interesting than it was as a polygonal format
19:12.43brlcadfor a CAD system, though -- the prevailing format is STEP, which has supplanted IGES
19:13.54brlcadnot a hard format to support -- probably could have an importer or exporter done in a few weeks .. but it'd be a minimal payoff so far for cad purposes
19:14.21brlcadstep, however, is going to have a massive payoff .. and take many months to implement, much more manpower
19:18.41b0ef;)
19:34.39PrezKennedyhaha nurbs
19:53.29b0efPrezKennedy: ?
19:54.52yukonbobafternoon -- I'm brandnew to brl-cad, but not brandnew to tcl -- q: I'm running 7.8.4, and if I try "puts [expr 1+1]" in mged, the [...] part isn't replaced by the output of "expr..." Is there a way to get that command substitution a la basic Tcl?
19:57.35*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876E29.dip.t-dialin.net)
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21:40.08*** part/#brlcad Joely (n=joel@adsl-71-147-42-12.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
22:18.23brlcadyukonbob: that's because the tcl shell in mged has two operating modes -- a tcl evaluation mode (not the default) and a object name globbing mode (the default)
22:19.00brlcadyou have to escape the globbing characters or set the mode to tcl evaluation
22:20.02brlcad"set glob_compat_mode" shows whether it's on or off (also on the File->Preferences->Special Characters menu)
22:21.08brlcadwhat that means basically is whether something like "ls [a-d]_foo_*.r" will work or not for matching name patterns like on a command shell
22:22.58brlcadif glob_compat_mode is on, you have to eval the strings too -- e.g. eval puts \[expr 1+1\]
22:25.21brlcadotherwise turn it off (set glob_compat_mode 0), then your puts expr will work as is
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22:35.00yukonbobbrlcad: nice -- thx :)
22:38.48brlcadyukonbob: no problem
22:57.56b0efwhen using the rt command, the window disappears; any way to avoid that?
23:04.33brlcadrt -F/dev/Xl
23:04.38brlcador rt -F/dev/ogll
23:04.54brlcador set FB_FILE environment variable to /dev/Xl or /dev/ogll
23:04.58brlcador use an fbserv
23:05.04brlcad;)
23:05.39brlcadit's a stupid default that it disappears, but I haven't researched what the impact of reversing it would be
23:06.32brlcadthe choice goes back to a day where various read-only devices didn't have a concept of lingering .. they just existed (early 80's *ahem*)
23:06.35b0efright, rt -F/dev/X1 is what I did use
23:06.51brlcadex ell
23:06.51brlcadnot ex one
23:06.57brlcadell for "linger"
23:07.01b0efah, damn
23:07.13b0efhehe
23:07.36brlcadthe format is /dev/DEVICEoptions
23:07.48brlcadthere are various options available, can run fbhelp to see most
23:07.59b0efright, thanks
23:08.16b0efis there any way to just render into a buffer, then display this at a later time?
23:08.43brlcadhm, i guess fbhelp doesn't show the options, but does list the available devices
23:08.58brlcad"display this at a later time"?
23:09.04brlcadyou can always render to a file
23:09.16b0efyeah, as in render into a buffer, then hit a command to display this buffer
23:09.32brlcadthat's sort of what fbserv is for
23:09.43brlcadthough it persists
23:09.47b0efright, nice; I'll read on it
23:09.50brlcadeither that or using the shared memory option
23:10.54b0efis there any command to check the status of a render?
23:11.20brlcadnope
23:11.33b0efthe way I do now, is turn off framebuffer, then hit render, cause framebuffer nearly grinds my computer to a halt;)
23:11.58brlcadthe framebuffer does or the raytrace?
23:12.12b0efthe framebuffer
23:12.20brlcader, that's odd
23:12.20b0efwhen it's on, everything is dead slow
23:12.36brlcadthat's .. "unexpected"
23:13.01brlcaddoes it do it to an fbserv too?
23:13.14b0efreally; I've not rendered that much in brl-cad so I might be doing something wrong; I have not played with fbserv
23:13.25b0efI will play some more and report back
23:14.53brlcadtry: fbserv -s800 0 /dev/X &
23:15.34b0efright; I will; just have a gigantic render going on
23:15.42brlcadrt -F0 -s800 whatever.g someobject
23:16.09brlcadif you've got mged already open, change that 0 on both the fbserv and rt to some other number -- that's the port number
23:16.31b0efright
23:17.13b0efam I supposed to be able to connect a GUI to the core after I've started it?
23:17.14*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@trapezewireless185.insecure.utah.edu)
23:17.27b0efis it a three tier architecture?
23:39.51brlcadfbserv provides the gui
23:40.29brlcadyou can extract the image at any time with separate guis if you want with various fb-* tools
23:54.05b0efbrlcad: right, but can you connect an interactive modeler UI like mged after you've started the core?
23:58.45cadguyDo we have a clean head at the moment?  I'd like to do an update.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070525

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070525

00:13.12*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:33.13b0efbrlcad: yup, that didn't slow things down, but the render was black; I'll try with some simple geometry
00:40.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: progress status during raytrace
01:08.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c:
01:08.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix raytrace synchronization bug introduced via valgrinding. release pairs up
01:08.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: with acquire, not init. need some other (new) routine to release the memory
01:08.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: allocated during init and probably some atexit() handler to free that memory.
01:52.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
01:52.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix anonymous report of configure failure on 7.10.0 where turning off urt would
01:52.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: result in a configure failure. the problem was a variety of checks for
01:52.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: configure settings that checked for the wrong value (!no instead of !yes, where
01:52.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: default is "auto"). so the default worked, but not when the 3rd party lib was
01:52.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: disabled.
01:59.09*** join/#brlcad MinstrelGypsy (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1096601318.dsl.bell.ca)
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02:29.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: auto_path tcl initialization startup code was once again re-written and verified via valgrind. this should fix a crash (that I don't have ready access to) reported via irc on a debian platform.
02:50.00*** join/#brlcad Joel1 (n=joel@adsl-71-147-42-12.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
02:51.34Joel1hey....umm brlcad, do you remember the command line you told me to put in yesterday to allow the tesselation tolerance to not go kaput on my computer? i can't find any logs...and my computer shut down before i wrote it down :(
02:52.13brlcadrun the command without any args and it should display usage
02:52.32Joel1ah, but i don't know exactly what the problem was...
02:52.45brlcadi believe it was the distance tolerance
02:52.55brlcadso, probably -D
02:53.04Joel1ok thank you
02:53.09brlcadno prob
03:17.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: fix horrible, horrible oversight typo that prevents brlcad_version() from working
03:19.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-dxf.c: extensively improve the g-dxf usage statement, add options, add version info
04:14.52*** part/#brlcad Joel1 (n=joel@adsl-71-147-42-12.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
05:11.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: quietly return -1 if given null or there is no file pointer opened
05:25.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for sync for db_sync()
05:26.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: condense the windows section, using the 'b' mode identifier is fine on non-_WIN32 platforms (c90 defines it to do nothing)
05:27.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: ws
05:38.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db5_scan.c: return quietly if dbip is null or if the file pointer isn't set, plus some ws
05:47.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: quotes
05:47.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/mged.tcl: quotes, and update comment
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13:24.17Haleiwabrlcad: how many days do you rest before exercising a muscle again?
13:38.26*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782730.dsl.bell.ca)
14:14.26brlcadHaleiwa: depends on the muscle and whether I'm bulking or conditioning
14:15.57Haleiwabrlcad: for bulking?
14:16.10brlcadif i'm bulking, it's usually 48 hours after it stops hurting or 72 hours after working out, whichever is longer -- which is basically if you workout a particular muscle heavy on monday, it's not focused again until thursday (and it's left alone in the days in-between)
14:17.37brlcadsome mucles like abs can take more, and it depends on your frame, but that's a schedule that's pretty good for most -- the trick is really hitting only one or two mucles on any given day, and then leaving it alone
14:18.16*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754299.dsl.bell.ca)
14:21.54Haleiwabrlcad: I go to gym every 3 days and work out all the muscles and they don't hurt then it's the same isn't it?
14:22.36Haleiwabrlcad: I have problem with biceps then increase weight only very slowly is there some trick?
14:23.01HaleiwaI feel like the signal into the muscle is too weak, like the muscle could do much more but the brain tells it too little
14:23.55Haleiwaother muscles like triceps go forward like hell I already hit the limit of the machine with triceps
14:30.43brlcadHaleiwa: that "could" be fine, but not for biceps -- the smaller muscles need more than that to rest once they start getting bigger, even after they don't hurt
14:31.17Haleiwaso I should train the biceps less often?
14:31.20brlcadi usually give biceps another 24 at best, e.g. monday to friday
14:32.21Haleiwaand if I do biceps only once per week is it fine?
14:32.30Haleiwacause getting into the gym costs some time
14:32.39brlcadthe other thing, though, is that if you're going every three days (presumabely M -> Thu -> Sun -> Wed -> Sat -> etc) .. I don't buy that you're focusing on the given muscles enough :)
14:32.50HaleiwaThanks for advice, these words help much more than mindless incorrect lifting of irons
14:33.09HaleiwaI do all the muscles every time I go
14:33.29brlcadthat can be a problem
14:33.42Haleiwawhat can it cause? what should I do instead?
14:34.31Haleiwaor I could actually train the biceps asynchronously because I have a little dumbbell for that at home
14:34.32brlcadi mean, you can't be doing benchpress and triceps and shoulders on the same day and expect all three to max out nicely
14:34.38Haleiwaso you say every 5 days the biceps?
14:34.42brlcadonce you do any one of those three, you cheat the other two
14:34.46Haleiwano I get tired
14:34.57Haleiwasure yes I get tired
14:35.08Haleiwaand the others just the signal from the brain gets weaker
14:35.30brlcadthat's what I mean about sticking to just two muscles -- I give about a half-hour to each muscle
14:35.51Haleiwaand what you do with the muscles you don't focus? No training or do you give them some low-intensity?
14:35.54brlcadlow, slow, heavy, controlled reps
14:36.18Haleiwaand the focused get what?
14:36.40brlcadif you're lifting for bulk, leave the ones off you just worked out alone
14:36.40HaleiwaI think my training was crap :)
14:36.54HaleiwaI don't get it
14:37.03brlcadthey really are in recovery mode until they've had their three days or so of rest
14:37.04HaleiwaI want to lift for bulk only
14:37.31Haleiwabut then I have to go more often than every 3 days
14:37.40brlcadif you lift light in the meantime, you're pressing them to respond to strength training (which limits growth capacity)
14:38.07brlcadyeah, every 3 days isn't ideal
14:38.24Haleiwaso if I go every 2 days and I do half of the body every visit?
14:38.33HaleiwaPlus do the bicepses asynchronously at home every 5 days?
14:38.34brlcadevery day or even every other day lets you respond to each muscle after they've had their recovery
14:39.19Haleiwawohoo, this training will surely work :)
14:39.20brlcaddepends what you mean by half the body, but yeah, that's more doable
14:39.27brlcadi hear that and it sounds like a 4 hour workout
14:39.30HaleiwaI mean half of the muscles
14:39.58Haleiwahalf of the machines
14:40.39Haleiwais it a problem that the muscles get 4 days for recovery instead of 3?
14:40.43Haleiwacannot they get lazy?
14:41.20brlcadseriously, a half hour per muscle -- intense focus on getting the muscle to fail within a few heavy reps with some warmup and cooldown reps -- and if you do something like shoulders one day, that means you can't do low chest or arms that day
14:42.26Haleiwawhat's the factor that gets optimized?
14:42.42Haleiwathat I feel the muscle is maximum tired after leaving the room?
14:43.48brlcadlike if you want shoulders on some day, you do heavy military or incline (but not both) followed by shoulder raises followed by heavy shrugs, followed by dumbell shoulder work to finish -- something like that
14:43.49*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096734991.dsl.bell.ca)
14:44.06brlcadspecifically avoiding bench, arms, and back
14:44.56brlcadif done on monday, that would/should basically leave your shoulders out until wed/thurs
14:45.31brlcadalso means you can't do bench/arms/back until tues/wed at the earliest
14:45.51Haleiwawhat is the best exercise for upper pecs?
14:45.57Haleiwamy upper pecs are total crap
14:46.01Haleiwaand the lower are much better
14:46.18brlcadincline and pec deck
14:46.42Haleiwaincline is incline bench with dumbbells?
14:47.59brlcadand yes -- the factor that's optimized is that the muscle you are working on is noticeably tired, but not those immediately around it (i.e. isolate the area somewhat)
14:48.25brlcadthen the trick is to get that fatigue with as few reps as possible using patterns that your muscles respond to
14:48.40Haleiwawhy as few reps as possible?
14:48.43Haleiwato save time?
14:48.49brlcadmax'ing out is critical for the big muscles, but really hard without spotters
14:49.17Haleiwaharry spotter is the guy who catches falling barbells?
14:49.33brlcadno, not to save time -- even 30 reps can take a half an hour if done right
14:49.57Haleiwawhy as few reps as possible then?
14:50.10brlcadfewer heavy reps build bulk, stimulate muscles for growth
14:50.25Haleiwabut one superheavy rep just tears the tendons away doesn't?
14:50.55brlcadthe more reps you add for a given set, particularly on the big muscles, the more it becomes conditioning and strength training
14:51.58Haleiwawhat if I lift the weight halfway but cannot complete? What should I do?
14:52.06HaleiwaTerminate the series?
14:52.56brlcadif done incorrectly, yes, you can tear tendons and cause all sorts of bad stuff to happen -- thats why the workouts are supposed to take a long while, to do them controlled, to rest extensively between sets, to have a spotter for failure and to watch you're doing proper form, etc
14:53.30Haleiwa6-8 reps is that OK for bulking?
14:53.35brlcadheh, yes definitely -- if you absolutely cannot complete with proper form, you've presumably reached failure
14:53.57HaleiwaI can complete if I twist my body or use other muscles but I don't do it
14:54.02HaleiwaThat's incorrect form right?
14:54.14brlcadyou ideally reach failure on each muscle at least once during the workout, and then move to a light cooldown on that muscle
14:54.24brlcadvery incorrect
14:54.25Haleiwaor if I can complete but instead of 3 seconds it takes half a minute?
14:54.34brlcadthat's a good way to give yourself a hernia or rip something
14:54.45Haleiwaand I also try to keep the speed constant that's right too?
14:55.05brlcadrelatively slow, but more importantly very controlled
14:55.18Haleiwabut if it's too slow then it's aerobic isn't it?
14:55.35Haleiwacontrolled means smooth?
14:55.54brlcad6-8 reps is fine for most muscles -- smaller muscles can take more, and you can play with that number some as you get familiar with how yours respond
14:56.03brlcadsmooth, proper form, full range of motion
14:56.30Haleiwaand if I cannot complete the whole range say only 90% then declare failure, right?
14:56.35brlcadif you're pressing 300 lbs, there's nothing aerobic about it
14:56.39brlcadno matter how slow you go
14:56.54Haleiwajust the static tension consumes enough leakage power?
14:58.21brlcadideally you don't declare failure -- your spotter does (at least if it's a big muscle group)
14:58.32brlcador rather, your body very clearly will
15:00.26brlcadthere's is a point where a given muscle will outright fail under an increasing heavy load
15:00.27brlcadfor smaller loads, it's very different
15:00.27brlcadbut for heavy ones, you want them to fail with a heavy weight at least once -- and then each time you work that muscle out, you push towards making that heavy weight failure happen 5-10 lbs heavier
15:02.02Haleiwawhat we want to induce is a damage, right?
15:02.09Haleiwabut microscopical and not macroscopical
15:03.31brlcadexample workout, I might be doing a pyramid set on incline, doing 10x120 warmup, then 10x180, 8x200, 6x220, 4x240, and then failing at 2x260 (with a spotter, and presuming I already knew my max was around 270) -- followed by maybe a two-set cooldown of 10x120 and 20x80
15:03.55brlcadright
15:04.10brlcadmacro bad, micro great
15:04.26Haleiwaso it's like bending an aluminium strip ten times back and forthn
15:04.30brlcadif I was doing that workout, and I failed on the second set, that'd change everything
15:04.36Haleiwanot like tearing it outright over
15:04.54brlcadnot a great analogy :)
15:06.12Haleiwahow long do you wait between changing weights?
15:07.02brlcadthat's a hard one, depends how it feels and how close to failure .. generally a few minutes at least
15:07.20Haleiwayou're right with the biceps because when I start with the biceps after some time of not using it, I feel it's powerful but next time it feels like crap
15:07.30Haleiwawhat do you do in these minutes?
15:07.59brlcadnot so long that the muscle has entirely cooled down (like 30 minutes later) and not immediate (like 1 minute later)
15:08.22brlcadotherwise, you can play with different recoveries depending on what you're trying to achieve
15:08.44Haleiwawhat's best for the biggest muscles?
15:08.57brlcadbiceps are a good example -- once they fail, they're pretty much useless, but they have a fast recovery
15:09.15Haleiwafast recovery?
15:09.18HaleiwaYou said it's slow, 5 days
15:09.41brlcadso you can just wait 2 minutes after a set, and even if you were close to failure with 8 reps, you could still get 6-8 reps on the next with increased weight
15:09.56Haleiwaoh that recovery
15:09.57brlcadi mean on the spot recovery between sets
15:10.28brlcadyou can generally do more reps with the smaller or more toned muscles
15:10.42brlcadyou can work out your abs just about every day, for example
15:10.54Haleiwawikipedia says that that is a myth
15:11.00brlcadbut then you generally don't "bulk" your abs
15:12.38Haleiwaabs are small or big muscles?
15:13.00brlcadwith workouts, just about everything is a myth or bad advice in certain concepts or put to certain practice -- as it all depends heavily on your own body, your muscles, your frame, etc
15:13.40brlcadas a group they're pretty big .. but they're a collection of a lot of smaller muscle bundles
15:14.02brlcadi was referring more to the difference between working your biceps and your quadriceps
15:14.58brlcadstill, 8 is a good general number if you're starting out to stick to that doesn't start to matter until/if you've plateau'd a muscle
15:15.15brlcad8-12 or so
15:15.45brlcadreducing reps as you hit more serious weights
15:16.32HaleiwaI mean the biceps on the arm
15:16.37Haleiwaisn't there another on the leg?
15:16.58brlcadhuh?
15:17.03Haleiwathen probably not :)
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15:45.04Tanelornbrlcad: how does it come that the recovery time (the one in order of days) depends on muscle size?
16:11.52``Erikheh
16:12.03``Erikmy biceps still hurt from tuesday :(
16:23.13Tanelornbrlcad: actually could I say that the recovery is complete when I feel the muscle is fresh and I cannot stop myself from playing with the weights?
17:19.15brlcad``Erik: heh
17:19.38brlcadthat's not a good sign if that little bit of effort makes ya sore :)
18:25.45``Erik<-- puss, and did bunches of carrying and lifting before you got there
18:27.35``Eriknothing else hurts *shrug*
18:27.40``Erikjust my biceps
19:26.49*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.177.205)
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22:28.08*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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23:30.34*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070526

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070526

00:05.46*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177705948.dsl.bell.ca)
01:19.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: db_get_version() was intentionally getting passed a partially initialized dbip -- require it be initialized before we pass it around anywywhere. clean up during failure cleanup on db_open() while we're at it.
01:31.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: add BU_DEBUG_ATTACH for the backtrace crash dump routines as a means for them to spin and wait for a debugger to attach.
01:32.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: utilize BU_DEBUG_ATTACH to allow for run-time attaching a debugger to apps that will potentially crash. this sends the app looping until a signal is received, or a variable is manually set in the debugger.
01:46.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (36 files):
01:46.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: get rid of RCS variables from the public header files. this is done in part to
01:46.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: reduce recompilation during interface changes, but also to move towards not
01:46.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: relying on or publishing the information contained in the variables
01:46.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: interface-wise. (they're fine for c sources and private headers)
01:52.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO include/shortvect-pr.h include/shortvect.h):
01:52.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: shortvect.h and shortvect-pr.h are both rather obsolete headers -- mark them as
01:52.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: such with a #warning and make a note to remove them. if we're ever compiling on
01:52.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: a cray again and need those features, they more appropriately belong in the
01:52.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: config header.
01:59.41MinstrelGypsy./bak/cvscheckout
02:01.02MinstrelGypsybeen bust in include have you brlcad:
02:01.07MinstrelGypsyerr busy too
02:02.15MinstrelGypsyurff failed to remove a lock file?
02:02.41MinstrelGypsycollision immenent :)
02:06.16MinstrelGypsyforgot the .sh anyway but it pays to checkout the channel occaisionally :)
02:09.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (28 files): clean up the header protections so that they are all now more consistent with one another via use of __HEADER_H__ for the define names.
02:09.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.h: don't declare the same thing that the public header declares for us
02:11.05brlcadmaking final preparations for 7.10.2
02:13.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/rtgeom.h: missed the endif
02:17.30MinstrelGypsywhat's that old saying? "Love to watch my work work"   :)  (when it *does work)
02:21.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (plot3.h raytrace.h): more consistency cleanup
02:28.19b0efdoes brlcad do any form of uv mapping?
02:46.14brlcadyes, but generally only relevant when you use the various texture/projection shaders
02:46.42brlcadall the primitives have a routine that reports uv information for any given shotline
02:50.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bigE.c: minor header cleanup
02:59.51b0efbrlcad: not sure I understand; I'm looking to uv map a set of meshes; can I use an image and have it tile over the mesh?
03:00.15b0eflike for example asphalt texture
03:35.07MinstrelGypsya little "yea" is heard :)
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05:16.05*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
05:16.06*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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14:27.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: move the variables off the stack, making them static globals, just to be more safe. Also, be more assertive about informing the user that a stack trace has been saved (since mged captures std output).
14:29.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am bench/Makefile.am): delegate benchmark rules down to the bench dir so they're only in one place (and so files aren't generated in the top-level), mirroring what regress does. inform the user when benchmark completes about the clobber rule.
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17:32.08*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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18:30.42MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/512083   <-----   BrlCad : This is the one you fixed last night right?
19:18.07*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096735026.dsl.bell.ca)
20:00.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: add sanity checks for commands that are required, add ability to quell output entirely via QUIET and verbosely with VERBOSE.
20:06.28*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@84.135.66.22)
20:18.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: add support for a clobber command argument so the benchmark tool can clean up after itself no matter where it's run from
20:27.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: build system no longer needs to know or care -- delegate cleanup to the benchmark tool directly
20:28.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: added 'clobber' cleanup command to benchmark tool
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20:59.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: force the tk interface off for now, there are still many issues to resolve -- particularly crashes under os x
21:04.47MinstrelGypsy;)
21:07.01MinstrelGypsyyou need to add an item on the summary to indicate same
21:56.31MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/512474   <----- show stopper, latest checkout
21:57.08MinstrelGypsyerr roots.c in librt
21:57.55MinstrelGypsyurfff i should support LOCAL?
21:58.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_tk.c: libfb interface files are conditionally empty, so add the appropriate IF_TK protection
21:59.16MinstrelGypsyi do :)
22:02.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: bonomo's last name first, credit tim for his extensive tk interface contributions
22:05.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-tk.c: credit tim, ws
22:05.53MinstrelGypsywhy on earth does taking LOCAL out fix it
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22:13.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/roots.c: FAST and LOCAL are no longer really useful, adding more burden than they provide, so begin a move towards deprecation.
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22:40.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: search for sed and pwd
22:41.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: saying 'this' sounds quirky when running through make, use pwd instead
22:50.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: investigate/fix db_walk_dispather crash in rt
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23:29.09MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/512587 <--- will this actually allow system tcl/tk use?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070527

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070527

00:29.59*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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01:15.17yukonbobcan I scale/translate/rotate a region or group? For example, if I've got a complex object that I want combined w/ some surface multiple times, in a pattern, what's the best way to approach this?
02:24.53smallfoot-dunno
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03:53.15brlcadyukonbob: yes, you can -- this is a "matrix edit" or an "object edit" depending whether you're doing it through the gui or the command line respectively
03:53.51brlcadif it's actually a regular pattern, the pattern tool should be able to actually make all of the (shallow) copies for you
04:12.03MinstrelGypsycd brlcad
04:17.04MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/513155  <----   just got thru checking out and ...
04:17.51brlcadrun: echo "test" | sed
04:17.54brlcadwhat does it output?
04:18.24MinstrelGypsyusage screen
04:18.35brlcadk, thanks
04:18.41MinstrelGypsywelcome
04:20.04brlcadtry: echo "test" | sed "s/test/test/"
04:20.46MinstrelGypsyreports test
04:21.18MinstrelGypsyi don't use sed much directly sorry im so slow
04:21.50MinstrelGypsywill --verbose on autogen help nail it down
04:22.17MinstrelGypsyno
04:22.21brlcadno, it's just an eary test to make sure all the tools the script uses are available
04:22.24MinstrelGypsydoesn't even get started
04:22.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (autogen.sh bench/run.sh): gnu sed apparently doesn't read from stdin, so make a custom test for it.
04:22.48brlcadthat should fix it
04:22.48MinstrelGypsythankyou
04:23.36MinstrelGypsywe'll know in a few minutes
04:25.46MinstrelGypsysame thing
04:28.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: use VERBOSE_ECHO instead of testing DEBUG
04:29.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: oops, one char typo -- try again
04:48.01MinstrelGypsysure just a sec
04:50.23MinstrelGypsymuch better
04:50.26MinstrelGypsy:)
04:52.01yukonbob?are there better manuals than the "VolumeII-Introduction to MGED", etc.... even wikis or other online materials... "Intro to..." is a great introduction, but something with more depth would be welcome :)
04:52.20yukonbobs/better manuals/more extensive/
04:52.27MinstrelGypsylook in the html dir
04:53.49MinstrelGypsyor did you know about the pdf docs on http://brlcad.org?
04:53.55brlcadyukonbob: yes, there's .. Vol III .. as well as a slew of manpages, html docs, and other docs embedded in the source code too
04:55.05yukonbobMinstrelGypsy: I got the PDFs from the brlcad.org... I did check the html earlier and it seemed incomplete for what I was searching at the time, but I should make mental note to check the included html for each case ;)
04:55.25MinstrelGypsy:)
04:55.37brlcadin the source distribution, there's a "doc" directory that has a lot of extra stuff of varying quality
04:56.32brlcadit's a bit of a stomping group for any and all documentation, whether new or old/outdated, but often many of the docs there get into details more quickly
04:57.53yukonbobare either of you devs, or pretty familiar w/ the build process? another q: I have is why my build didn't like my already installed tcl/tk/itcl/itk etc. Is that pretty typical that  brlcad wants to build it's own? Is it for particular reason, or I need to feed better hints to ./configure?
04:58.05brlcadthat said, they're *all* works in progress, and even the rather extensive tutorial series (which took a couple years to put together) are even "incomplete" in many respects
04:58.30brlcadyukonbob: i'm the lead dev
05:00.17poolioare there other devs?
05:07.20brlcadpoolio: yes, though they only periodically/rarely show their faces on IRC
05:13.32MinstrelGypsymean i should get off the channel then :P
05:13.51MinstrelGypsyjust kidding poolio, i'm not dev
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05:56.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (benchmark.1 run.sh):
05:56.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: add support for automatic logging of benchmark results to a file. this is so
05:56.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: users don't have to rerun and/or manually capture output if they want to review
05:56.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: the output in detail. also included is the date/time and uname of the system
05:56.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: running the analysis. make the file path searching output verbose-only now.
05:56.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: docs updated to reflect all these changes.
05:57.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: benchmark tool automatically logs all output to file
06:27.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/ (benchmark.1 run.sh): differentiate between clean and clobber, allowing clean to remove files without being prompted while clobber also deletes the (new) benchmark.log files (but still not the summary file)
07:54.30yukonbob:) another Q when somebody gets the time: Is there a discussion of "copies" versus "references" of/to objects available? I see reference (no pun intended) to it in VolIII...
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19:58.07MinstrelGypsyis bwish used for anything?
19:59.03brlcadyes
19:59.16MinstrelGypsycritical?
19:59.18brlcadit's used by rtwizard and a few other tools
19:59.24MinstrelGypsyty
20:00.04brlcadi'm not sure i'd call it "critical", but it's certainly in the top 50% of tools
20:00.14MinstrelGypsyunderstood
20:00.43MinstrelGypsycan't forget about it then :)
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21:49.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: it's an array of ints, so sizeof accordingly
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070528

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070528

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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070529

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070529

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17:32.09``Erikblargh.
18:12.37``Erikheh
18:12.47``Erikwow, first car to wipe out in the indy 500 was the linux car... http://tux500.com/geeklog/
18:14.35``Erikhttp://lolcode.com/
18:25.39smallfoot-what means "wipe out" ?
18:26.31smallfoot-oh it smash into wall
18:26.36smallfoot-that sucks, especially since it was the linux car :(
18:26.49dtidrow_workpebcak error  ;-)
18:32.07``Erikbetween... car and kid?
18:32.21``Erikchair and kar?
18:32.50``Erikpebswas? problem exists between steering wheel and seat? :D
18:33.04archivistplenty of keys on a racing car steering wheel
18:33.14``Eriktrue, but it ain't really a board
18:33.49``Erikalso; my car (13 steering wheel buttons I think?) and mach5 are jealous :D
18:33.55``Erikdamnit
18:34.41archivistI wonder if he was on IRC chatting instead of concentrating on driving
18:36.59``Erik11, not 13 :D (I'm counting the horn)
18:37.31``ErikI've known people to do that... I nevr have, I don't even answer the phone while driving anymore
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19:49.59MinstrelGypsyhttp://www.pastebin.ca/519893 <--- this is trying to build fbserv with tk8.5a6 same happens with 8.5a5 yours or mine still the same
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19:55.35MinstrelGypsybtw why can't I do a distclean in other/tk?
19:55.35MinstrelGypsytcl allows it
20:35.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Switch in support for new opennurb_ext bounding volumes (still in development)
20:37.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add some "extensions" to opennurbs (currently residing in librt) to support pullback curves and closest point functionality
20:38.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Remove the old pullback curve header
20:40.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: Add opennurbs_ext functionality to librt
20:43.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Replace primitive-only bounding volume hierarchy with opennurbs_ext surface tree. Will remove commented code later.
20:44.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Initial implementation of opennurbs_ext features (closest point is not implemented yet)
20:47.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: Remove the compilation of the opennurbs-proper extensions (too many dependencies to resolve for now)
20:48.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (brlcad_surfacetree.h brlcad_surfacetree.cpp): Fix the storage of faces instead of just surfaces (more information)
20:50.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_math.h opennurbs_math.cpp): ws change and remove inline modifier (fix linking problems :-)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070530

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070530

00:23.24yukonbobI've got a confusing (to me) situation -- I've got  a tcl proc (that I "source") and what it does is cp some objects, tra(nslate) them rot(ate) and qorot(ate)... I use a while loop to iterate through them (only 9) -- the objects are selected via oed. If I do a test manually, things seem to work as I imagine they should. w/i the code though (a proc), the rot's don't take effect -- am I doing something incorrect?
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07:42.53Waimeabrlcad: your recommendation regarding splitting the workouts and waiting until the muscles completely regenerate is incredible!
07:43.04Waimeabrlcad: when I tried it for the first time I could see the jump in weights!
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14:56.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change image format #define stuff to an enum
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16:30.21``Erik"brep_kinky" hehehe
18:39.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Fix bugs (no inlining for intersection method, make root bv access const)
18:40.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Remove commented code
18:41.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Make root node access const
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20:49.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp include/opennurbs_ext.h): Add closestPointEstimate support to bounding volumes
20:50.15smallfoot-new AACS key 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
21:08.51louipchm?
22:41.16``Erikheh
22:41.34``Erikpheer, security through obscurity prevails again O.o
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23:35.43GenecksHI, I need help.
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23:36.05brlcadGenecks: hello
23:36.10GenecksHI
23:36.23GenecksI need to install BRLCAD to Kubuntu
23:36.27GenecksHow do I do that?
23:36.59brlcadthe best way is to just download the sources from cvs, compile, install
23:37.12GenecksI don't kmnow ohb awed;ofjbn;askbdf;jbasudf
23:37.14brlcadelse grab a source tarball or grab the old .deb
23:37.14Genecksbrb, sorry
23:37.31GenecksHello again.
23:37.37GenecksI recently downloaded the .deb file
23:37.38brlcadtoddler? :)
23:37.43GenecksYes...
23:37.44Genecks:)
23:37.55brlcadhehe
23:38.00brlcadexcellent
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23:38.20brlcadthe .deb is old and has several "lacking" characteristics, but it might be all you want/need
23:38.52GenecksI think it is.
23:39.03GenecksI recently extracted the contents, but I didn't know what to do with the contents.
23:39.15brlcadit created a "usr" dir?
23:39.20brlcadwhat's in the deb?
23:39.24GenecksNot yet.
23:39.48brlcadit was provided by a user, not from us directly -- there's no debian/ubuntu/etc dev as of yet
23:39.53brlcadjust fyi
23:40.57brlcadif you're willing to compile, I'd be glad to walk you through a source install step-by-step
23:41.48brlcadotherwise, I believe the deb will put everything into a system path with an mged.sh script that sets up the environment to run mged
23:42.05brlcadshould install into /usr/brlcad, but I forget what the .deb does
23:43.01yukonbobbrlcad: any reason why rot shouldn't work on an oed-selected region w/i a tcl loop, but seems to work outside (manually)?
23:43.50smallfoot-brlcadl, is new release ahead?
23:45.00louipcGenecks: I think you use dpkg to install .deb pkgs. You should ask in #ubuntu perhaps.
23:49.09brlcadsmallfoot-: yes
23:49.15brlcadyukonbob: hmmmm
23:49.41brlcadglob_compat_mode would be the only thing that should be different between manual and in a loop
23:49.50brlcadyukonbob: are you invoking a script?
23:50.03yukonbobbrlcad: I've adjusted glob_compat both ways...
23:50.17yukonbobbrlcad: what I did is write a proc, and source it, then call it.
23:50.25yukonbobproc == standalone file.
23:55.07brlcadcan you post it up somewhere so I can give it a try?
23:55.45yukonbobbrlcad: yup -- will do. Are you online for a while? (/me is just working on some other stuff atm)
23:58.07``Erikdamnit, why'd jay-lo have to bring in that car, he's got me lookin' at gettin' one :/
23:58.44brlcadyukonbob: yeah, I'm generally on-line all the time, just working on other stuff too often :)
23:59.04yukonbobbrlcad: heh :) -- I'll hopefully just be few minutes...
23:59.10brlcadeven when I'm not "on-line", i'm screened and logging
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070531

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070531

00:06.48GenecksWHen I'm not online, I'm eating babies.
00:07.14``Erikcomet7?
00:07.37``Erikhttp://www.comet7.com/archive_page.php?id=685
00:07.41``Erikhttp://www.comet7.com/archive_page.php?id=686
00:07.48GenecksStop spamming.
00:07.57``ErikI'm not, I'm posting two links
00:08.12GenecksNobody needs your pornography.
00:08.20GenecksDon't click it, anyone.
00:08.32``Erikheh, if only :D webcomics aren't quite as amusing
00:10.21GenecksYou ever think about having sex with an underage girl?
00:10.30``Erikuh, no...
00:10.44GenecksWhy not? There are plenty in Cambodia.
00:11.47Geneckshttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4038249/
00:13.06GenecksYou've never thought about it, ''Erik?
00:13.30louipcGenecks: I think you're in the wrong channel for that kind of discussion
00:14.41Genecks#mp3
00:22.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: version number is in the include/conf dir version files now
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00:58.52yukonbobbrlcad: I'm not surprised, but I may have solved own issue with orders of operations -- will still show you other code, though, to discuss why it doesn't work if that's alright...
01:04.23``Eriksome odd monkeys drift through O.o
02:02.51brlcadyukonbob: find with me either way -- oed is stateful (meaning it cares about when you do what), so I wouldn't be surprised if it was related to being in one state yet needing another or something similar (forcibly setting/changing the state in scripts is good for that, e.g. accept and reject commands)
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02:31.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: kaboom! .. document all of the configure options we provide (both the --enable and --with options), including what they mean and do in detail. includes all of the various available aliases too that are available.
02:34.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
02:34.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: another big aliasing restructure for consistency. includes removing some of the
02:34.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: more gratuitous/verbose aliases as well as more consistently using -install for
02:34.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: the three (iwidgets, tnt, models) that aren't actually 'compiled'. should match
02:34.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: the new INSTALL docs.
02:39.12louipcsweet
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05:32.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (5 files): so sayeth he, it shall not come to pass -- too many integration issues for now so make/leave it as part of librt
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07:54.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/Makefile.am: it's an icon, not a disk image
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12:42.35Waimea_brlcad: here?
13:26.48brlcadWaimea_: yep
13:27.13Waimea_brlcad: your recommendations for the gym are great, it seems to work!
13:27.28Waimea_brlcad: suddenly the wights jumped up a step and I don't feel tired like before
13:28.07Waimea_brlcad: I am thinking about dithering the trainings dynamically without actually needing to keep any paperwork or remember anything
13:28.29Waimea_store the information distributed in the individual muscles and read it out by feeling :)
13:33.27``Erikdamn, knew I shoulda committed before leaving yesterday
13:44.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h): cope with alloca issue in openNURBS
13:44.40brlcadWaimea_: glad to hear it
13:44.40brlcadthere is a method to the madness ;)
13:45.36brlcadworking out by feeling is good too, by failure is even better but you have to be careful --  as is actually testing your 1-rep max about once every other month or so (must be done carefully and usually with a spotter, regardless of the muscle)
13:47.48Waimea_the last sentence is too complicated for someone who goes to a gym
13:47.55Waimea_could you explain simpler?
13:50.22``Erikmax lift can be done in a jungle gym, too, as long as you do building with freeweights to get the proper muscle formation...
13:50.58``Erik(says the guy with no muscles ;)
13:53.33Waimea_what's max lift?
13:53.41Waimea_Something fat people use instead of the stairs?
13:54.09``Erikno, lifting as absolutely much as possible... just 1 time...
13:54.23Waimea_doesn't this damage the muscle or the tendons?
13:55.00``Erikthat'ts why ya have to be careful... and do it infrequently...
13:55.18Waimea_can a scar tissue form without pain?
13:58.02elite01_of course you can get wounded without even noticing it
13:59.36Waimea_is this meant seriously or ironically?
14:01.24Waimea_brlcad: what do you think?
14:01.29Waimea_``Erik: or you?
14:13.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: grab brlcad_config.h to make sure the right things are defined
14:13.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: include ieeefp.h if available for finite()
14:18.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: rework the configuration files so that they will work even if they pull read-only files from top_srcdir (e.g. during a distcheck on some platforms). shouldn't need the all-local with BUILT_SOURCES being defined.
14:20.54brlcadWaimea_: testing your one rep max is a common thing, particularly for "someone who goes to a gym" frequently (at least power lifters)
14:21.59Waimea_brlcad: can you get scar tissue from that without actually feeling pain?
14:22.12brlcadbasically, it's a controlled measure of what your current power level is -- starting out with rested muscles, warm them up with something really light, then put on what you can only do 2-3 reps of before failing
14:23.13brlcadonce you do that -- add a little more weight, try another rep, repeat if you need to until you can only do just one (taking long breaks in between)
14:23.24``Erikbah. meeting time.
14:23.43brlcad"just one" being done relatively slowly, controlled, no bouncing, no lunging, etc
14:24.25Waimea_no screams during which the window panes pop out from the frames?
14:25.12brlcadthink of it like taking your temperature with a thermometer, it's not meant to be a workout -- it's a measure of your strength (which is why you really need a spotter so that your first 2-3 rep guess really is just a 2-rep guess so that attempt #2 is 1-rep max and attempt #3 is failure
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18:34.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: use SSE conditional for BREP_CPPFLAGS, so we can build brep support on non-sse archs
18:41.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (badmagic.c bu_tcl.c): some sprintf->snprintf and some minor cleanup of magic numbers
18:42.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (convert.c fopen_uniq.c vfont.c vls.c): some sprintf->snprintf
18:52.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs.h opennurbs_system.h):
18:52.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: opennurbs_system.h has compiler checks for alloca and inclusion of alloca --
18:52.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: just needs another for sun. not as robust as the lengths autoconf suggests, but
18:52.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: then neither is using our brlcad_config.h in a public header. need to retest on
18:52.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: sun/irix to see if the ON_COMPILER_IRIX and ON_COMPILER_SUN work (else tweak the
18:52.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: defines).
19:10.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: add libsocket and libnsl where required (solaris)
19:13.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: do run-time substitution instead of generation time... for consistency
19:13.51brlcadrum-time?
19:14.03``Erikheh, I wish :D
19:14.10``Erik${LIBSOCKET} instead of @LIBSOCKET@
19:14.15brlcadahh yeah
19:14.19brlcadfew of those turds remaining
19:14.32brlcadnot many though
19:14.42``ErikI put one of those turds in, then was doing hte fix elsewhere and noticed it was an outlyer...
19:14.46brlcadyou get chance to retest opennurbs?
19:15.19``Erikum, lemme update
19:15.24``Erikafter this commit unlocks
19:15.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/Makefile.am: add libsocket and libnsl where required (solaris)
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19:20.01brlcadwoot, that's like .. dual core !!wowlol!!
19:20.21``Erikhehehe, that's the irix box... the sun is way way juicier, with a pair of 450's
19:20.49``Erikthe quad core 2ghz opteron is still impressive O.o
19:21.26``Eriksrc/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_archive.cpp:7106: error: `
19:21.27``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:21.34``Erikyou dun br0ked the sun build
19:22.00``Erik(it needs alloca.h to be included... I d'no what you were changin'...)
19:28.40``Erikwith gcc on solaris, it needs alloca.h
19:31.30``Erikand gcc on solaris doesn't -DSUNOS
19:31.40``Erik-D__GNUC__=3 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=3 -D__GNUC_PATCHLEVEL__=1 -Dsparc -D__sparc__ -D__sparc -D__GCC_NEW_VARARGS__
19:32.29``Erik:/ since fbsd, linux, et al can run on sparc, I don't think any sparc name is safe to use... brlcad_config.h has enough info to get us there, though...
19:33.02``Erik(I kinda think it's better to try to avoid any os or arch name and work with detected feature as much as possible... like the existance of alloca.h)
19:52.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: use size_t instead of unsigned int for casting a pointer to an int (warning on 64b opteron/fbsd)
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20:17.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (14 files in 4 dirs): fix various compiler warnings
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21:03.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Add get_closest_point function declaration
21:04.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: Move vector point/matrix functionality here from g_brep.cpp
21:05.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Simplify call to pullback_curve during testing
21:07.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Move vector point/matrix functions to vector.h. Fix some pointer/reference passing issues.
21:09.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Fix parameter passing, and integrate surfacetree through pullback_curve function
22:04.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: attempt yet again, don't use cp since it will complain about identical files -- use the kitten.
22:05.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/Makefile.am: need opennurbs_ext.h in the dist
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22:22.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/loadfont.c: comment cleanup
22:23.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/description.txt doc/mged.tr src/other/jove/jove-tutorial): minor nitpick, it was the Ballistic Reseach Lab.
22:31.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: quote the expr so it doesn't error out
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070601

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070601

02:03.25*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
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06:02.36*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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15:39.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: fix for solaris/gcc (SUNOS is not defined, but __sun is)
15:40.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: since brlcad_config.h isn't being pulled in from an included header, include it explicitely for the HAVE_IEEEFP_H cpp symbol
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16:01.59``Eriksweet, successful buidl on sol8/usparc use the gnu toolchain
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16:19.57``Erikoi, mal
16:26.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/regex.h: add in the #include "./tclInt.h" that was lost during upgrade (fixes the regex issues in librt/regionfix.c and conv/proe-g.c)
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19:44.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: return to simplicity, doesn't matter what is in the srcdir
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19:44.35brlcad``Erik: oooh, the tclInt.h fix -- forgot about that
19:46.01brlcadI can see why it's "a problem" just reading the header .. but then I just must have something different since I never encounter it for some reason -- probably related to building out of dir, but who knows, doesn't matter, it's all good
19:50.17pooliobrlcad: /msg?
19:50.26``Erikheh
19:50.46``ErikI woulda guessed that you weren't building tcl, so that path was never added to your include path
19:54.02brlcadalmost always do both --enable-all and defaults on the systems I test to make sure both work
19:54.22brlcadpoolio: always, please never ask me ;)
19:54.33pooliobrlcad: No, I already messaged you and you didn't respond :)
20:13.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: Fix bug in IGES nurbs extraction (index calculation errors)
20:15.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: Use recommended (by openNURBS) method of accessing topology using indices instead of references/pointers
20:16.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Use recommended (by openNURBS) method of accessing topology using indices instead of references/pointers. Also fix nurbssurface storage into opennurbs data structures (knots handled differently)
20:17.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: Remove broken index macros
20:19.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add some debugging output. Getting periodic divergence in root finder (still don't know why).
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070602

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070602

01:39.07*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-255-112-97.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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04:19.18*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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04:54.25brlcadhow goes it up in the big bowl, cadguy
04:54.45cadguyweird.  In the desert I have rain in my kitchen
04:55.00brlcadrain in the kitchen?
04:55.36brlcadsound system or leaky roof? :)
04:55.36cadguyHouse was just renovated.  Swamp cooler is on roof above kitchen.
04:55.55cadguyPipe to swamp cooler was sawn off
04:55.56brlcadahh
04:55.56cadguyRoof leaks around pipe to swamp cooler.
04:56.09cadguyProperty management company admitted knowing about electrical problems in house.
04:56.31cadguyWe threatened lease termination this morning based upon clauses in the contract.
04:56.45cadguyThey had 15 people in the house working by 3pm local time.
04:57.09cadguyThey're strapped for cash and cannot afford to loose the lease.
04:57.24cadguyThat was my day.  How was yours?
04:57.55brlcadhehe
04:58.06brlcadway to lay on the pressure
04:59.08brlcadit was a mostly uneventful usual friday other than checking out pirates with kermit
04:59.24cadguyHow was it?
04:59.31brlcadquite excellent a flick, didn't even realize how long it was until it was over
04:59.54cadguyMaybe I'll get the wf to go see it with me.
04:59.57brlcadi actually liked it more than the first one (haven't seen the second), contrary to the reviews
05:00.13cadguywow
05:00.19brlcadit seems more piratey and less disney, more appealing to me
05:00.36cadguyArrr, Aye matey
05:00.55brlcadlot more serious scenes, nice plot twists throughout
05:01.57brlcadplus great humor and quips from jack sparrow
05:02.10cadguyThx again for helping with the packing.
05:02.18brlcadnp
05:02.24brlcadall arrived right-side up?
05:02.35brlcadi had nothing to do with the dents and scratches
05:02.43cadguyDon't know yet.  We've had to delay delivery until the house is fit to occupy
05:03.11cadguybut the broken things are all your fault?
05:03.22brlcadthat was all bob's doing
05:03.28brlcadi tried to stop him
05:03.32brlcadbut he's bigger than me
05:03.41cadguyI heard about it.  
05:03.55brlcadshe fit the bike in?
05:04.02cadguyFollow the leader, stop trying to re-evaluate everything
05:04.25cadguyShe didn't.  She's going to ship it separately later this month when she's back in town.
05:04.35brlcadahh
05:04.41cadguyWait.  The bike, yes, the trike no.
05:05.15cadguyBTW, sucking wind at 4500' is tough compared to sea level.
05:05.19brlcadwe could have strapped it in tight (the trike) to the roof, but she was uneasy about it before packing his.. quota of stuffed animals
05:05.54cadguyThey could have padded the trike ;-)
05:06.07cadguyHe's already got the only 3 he cares about.
05:06.20brlcadheh, http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/lolcode_r.jpg
05:10.57cadguyInteresting morf vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs
05:20.39cadguyg'night
05:20.45brlcadpretty cool vid
06:25.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: some versions of expr really don't like the quotes, so check for it
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21:49.19``Erikheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070603

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070603

00:20.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: should be fine to use bu_bomb instead of abort as bu_bomb should not attempt to acquire a semaphore (it doesn't use bu_log).
01:11.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: add comment docs on bu_bomb usage and add name given extensive changes over time.
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03:02.41MinstrelGypsyhttp://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside albumn, 7.10.1 sorta working.
04:13.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/tcl.m4: if we're on freebsd, there should be no reason why we can't just use gcc instead of ld -- this allows 'lib' flags being provided for XFT_LIBS via xft-config to actually not break the build.
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04:55.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: set the ld_library_path so the binaries invoked by the test can find the tcl/tk libraries. also, write out the mged script to a file so that errors don't dump the entire script. use solids.log for the log.
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05:13.39jack-guys, question..is adrt more mature meanwhile? like..should i include it in a brlcad package?
05:13.58jack-(too lazy to study changelogs, sorry!)
05:14.29jack-it's wicked on macs, anyway
05:14.40jack-since SDL is aqua (apple windowmanager) stuff
05:14.47jack-and the rest is x11 stuff
05:15.17jack-so its not too easy to get a smooth env while working, kind of
05:25.49brlcadjack-: probably not
05:26.02jack-better leave adrt out again?
05:26.07brlcadyes
05:26.13jack-ok, thx :)
05:26.22brlcadit's not been fleshed out build-wise with any sort of polish
05:26.41jack-thats np, i mean i could dig minor build issues myself
05:26.51jack-but for end users, as a frontend?
05:27.01brlcadit'll build on os x, but it requires a fair bit of manual work
05:27.19jack-i know the sdl tricks pretty well i guess :)
05:27.19brlcadand even once you have it up, there is practically no documentation
05:27.26brlcadit's not meant for end-user use just yet
05:27.26jack-ok
05:27.33jack-alright, no adrt then
05:29.33jack-brlcad: no clue if you're the one who tried to build/use it on mac os x
05:29.47jack-but if you want a much easier life for such things, just get fink
05:29.58jack-saved me so much time+headaches already :)
05:33.14jack-brlcad will appear in fink soonish, i'm just finishing my package
05:33.54jack-(http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jackfink = me)
05:36.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: mged_solids.log is no longer generated
05:38.24brlcader, i've never "tried" .. i build it when i want to use it by hand ;)
05:38.41jack-:)
05:38.57brlcadglad to hear someone's picking up the fink package for it
05:39.00jack-building anything you know on a new system could always be seen as a try
05:39.10jack-nothing wrong with that :)
05:39.25brlcadi would, but me and the fink devs differ on many issues that I just try to avoid the conflict
05:39.34jack-oh
05:39.38jack-like what?
05:40.14jack-in my eyes, the dp/mp folks are way more of elitist whackos you can have troubles communicating with
05:40.20jack-hence fink
05:40.50brlcadnothing important
05:42.05jack-i like discovering and packaging great things like brlcad
05:42.31jack-sphinx is kind of similar, an awesome opensourced speech recognizing system done by edu folks
05:43.22jack-only stuff holding that one back was some odd g95 thing, it just wont build if you have fortran installed
05:43.53jack-unfortunately a system component, outside of fink ;) i should hack the autoconf files a bit
05:44.05brlcadyeah, sounds like something in a configure.ac
05:44.14jack-yup
05:45.12jack-sdl is fairly neat once you get used to shit on *.framework and use only the fink stuff
05:45.29jack-some things like sdl, mysql and so on are available from many sources for macs
05:45.36jack-wicked..but you can handle that
05:53.36brlcadsdl from the sdl folks works well enough too -- but requires a fair bit of build-system mods to support them regardless (at least portably)
05:57.38jack-yup
05:57.58jack-or a fair bit of packager brainwork to adapt stuff
05:58.27jack-i dont like all the purely mac-ish things like frameworks, the unix way is so much easier
05:58.39jack-and not any less reliable if you know what you're doing
06:03.05jack-easier = more portable..thanks to fink i only have to make sure stuff uses the right include- and libdirs
06:03.40jack-and autoconf/make-upstream is influenced enough to make sure it works
06:03.54jack-so fink is really comfortable, kind of
06:04.08brlcadis that a soapbox you're standing on? :)
06:04.18brlcadto each their own ;)
06:04.27jack-yeah
06:04.57jack-stuff is getting harder now with intel vs ppc anyway
06:05.15jack-cant build fat binaries and libs with fink yet :) but its ok
06:07.32brlcaddid they finally add smp build support?
06:08.23jack-not directly through fink, but some even some core guys do it
06:08.40jack-np to get -j4 into your makeflags if you know what you're doing
06:09.02brlcadi know it's doable, I made the mods for years
06:09.12jack-some stuff wont work, but most stuff will
06:09.28jack-its just not ripe enough to include it in fink for "users"
06:09.51jack-(people who want to build things without being able to do the same stuff "manually" from upstream tarballs or so)
06:33.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (7 files): set the ld_library_path so the binaries invoked by the test can find the tcl/tk libraries.
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12:36.38thing0hey guys
12:36.42thing0long time no see
12:36.51thing0haven't been here in years :)
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14:16.44bjorkBSDhas it changed much, thing0?
14:17.02tarzeauis it possible make clean target is not very good?
14:17.07tarzeaulike it removes stuff that's needed?
14:21.21thing0umm
14:21.26thing0yeah
14:21.30thing0there is more people ;)
14:21.34thing0i've changed too
14:21.35thing0hehe
14:26.38thing0so how is BRLCAD actually going?
14:33.41``Erika little to the left
14:48.51thing0lol
15:19.34tarzeauitclStubLib.lo: In function `Itcl_InitStubs':
15:19.35tarzeau/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr'
15:19.40tarzeauwhen i try to build it (on debian gnu/linux)
15:19.57brlcadhello thing0
15:20.32thing0hi brlcad
15:20.36thing0long time no see
15:20.43brlcadtarzeau: can you try to build latest CVS instead of .0
15:20.49thing0i've been cadding it up lately
15:20.50thing0:P
15:20.56tarzeaubrlcad: sure. let me get that
15:21.00brlcadthe build system has been in rapid flux wrt tcl/tk/itcl/itk
15:21.00thing0actually got a job as a CAD teacher
15:21.01thing0hehe
15:21.10brlcadthing0: nifty
15:21.22thing0yeah
15:21.24thing0but I quite
15:21.26thing0quite
15:21.28tarzeauany of you use blender, wings3d, misfit model 3d and/or www.sauerbraten.org ?
15:21.30thing0last try
15:21.31thing0quit
15:21.32thing0hehe
15:21.47brlcadtarzeau: i've used at least two of those
15:21.49thing0tarzeau: I have used blender
15:22.02brlcadthe first two for me
15:22.14brlcadnone of those being a solid modeler or cad modeler too ;)
15:22.32tarzeauyeah i know it's different stuff :)
15:22.39tarzeauthat's why i try to package brlcad (again) for debian
15:22.48tarzeauthat ronja friend's using brlcad
15:22.59tarzeauhttp://ronja.twibright.com/
15:24.01brlcadhe pops in from time to time
15:24.51tarzeauclock-?
15:26.34brlcadyeah
15:27.19brlcadunless that's you and I'm getting nicks confused
15:28.08tarzeauno no that's not me
15:28.18tarzeauyou're absolutely right
15:28.31tarzeaubut i was here too, i think a year or more ago
15:28.54tarzeautrying to build the cvs version now
15:29.36thing0how many devs are working on BRLCAD?
15:31.10brlcadthing0: oh it varies in any given week -- but about 4 or 5 regularly active throughout this past year
15:32.05brlcadthe magnitude of activity also fluctuates heavily, as does peripheral support for solving things like mathematics and algorithms issues
15:32.43thing0ahh ok
15:33.10brlcadone guy working on FEA integration, another on build system and image management refactoring, another implementing the brep support, etc
15:37.28thing0ahh ic
15:37.37thing0is there a mechanical simulation?
15:37.48thing0as in gravity, force analysis etc.
15:38.40brlcadno no
15:39.08brlcadthat's quite outside our scope at least at the moment -- that's partly why, though, there are hooks to FEA being put in place
15:40.32thing0hmm
15:41.05thing0should join up with that free physic engine group
15:41.52brlcadyou need a simulation environment for a physic engine to make sense ;)
15:42.21thing0yeah
15:42.24thing0exactly
15:43.08thing0hmm
15:43.33thing0is BRLCAD actually parametric?
15:43.38thing0I cannot remember
15:43.45thing0I am on a backup dialup account atm
15:43.51thing0so the PDF is really slow to load
15:44.00brlcadno, it's not parametric
15:44.09brlcadthough we're moving towards adding that style geometric support
15:44.35brlcadbrl-cad supports multiple representation formats, but _prefers_ implicit CSG constructions
15:45.42brlcadthat said, we're in the process of implementing brep support beyond the existing support for meshes so that you can define parametric surfaces
15:46.16brlcadthat's massive effort, though, and going to require a bit shift in the editing side as well as the foundation geometric engine aspects
15:47.17brlcadjason has almost got the base brep support implemented in terms of ray-tracing, quite awesome progress actually
15:47.50brlcadfrom there we'll need to implement brep tessellation, brep on brep evaluation, and csg to brep translation
15:47.52tarzeaustill /var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr'
15:47.57thing0ll
15:47.59thing0well
15:48.06thing0if I can request a feature
15:48.19thing0please make the solids themselves parametric
15:48.24thing0as in
15:48.30thing0the primative shape
15:48.31thing0s
15:48.37thing0can be deformed
15:48.44brlcadtarzeau: can you pastebin the configure summary?
15:48.45thing0no need to make base sketches and then extrude
15:48.56brlcadit's in your config.log near the bottom if you don't have it in a buffer
15:49.02*** join/#brlcad smallfoot- (i=smallfoo@clamwin/translator/smallfoot)
15:49.03thing0this annoys me greatly in the current group of parametric CADs
15:49.07tarzeaubrlcad: sure: http://gnu.ethz.ch/debian/brl-cad/brlcad_0+20070603-1_i386.build
15:49.13brlcadthing0: that's all planned
15:49.16tarzeau500kb, very bottom
15:49.37thing0thank you brlcad
15:49.49brlcadif you create a sphere, it'll make just an implicit sphere -- but still let you grab a point on that sphere and pull/poke it (at which point it's automatically turned into a brep spline surface)
15:49.50thing0I have yet to look at onespaces offering
15:49.59thing0ahh nice
15:50.07thing0what I would like is that
15:50.29thing0if for example I made the mid of a sphere join to the face of a cube
15:50.48thing0I could define the length of the sphere - cube with a parameter
15:51.02thing0that is mapped to the quadrant of the sphere
15:51.08thing0and the end of the cube
15:51.49brlcadsounds like parametric constraints
15:51.57thing0yeah
15:52.03thing0but in a different way
15:52.25thing0most CADs would have this as a reference
15:52.33thing0I want this as a driving constraint
15:52.45thing0sure I could make this shape with a base sketch
15:52.51thing0but that's what I don't want
15:53.06thing0cause if someone picks a different spot to make a base sketch
15:53.12thing0then the way your thinking
15:53.18thing0it becomes ANNOYING
15:54.31thing0yeah
15:55.00thing0we work in 3d but still use 2d methods to make our 3d objects
15:59.02brlcadwe, who's we? :)
16:00.12brlcadbrl-cad never has supported 2d methods very well, or at all for the longest time -- it was a long time before sketches were added and they're still a bastard cousin implementation that are discouraged
16:00.47thing0hehe
16:00.50thing0sorry brlcad
16:01.02thing0just thinking of commerical parametric CAD
16:01.12thing0had the sales doctorine
16:01.17thing0its in my blood now
16:01.18thing0:P
16:01.42brlcadautocad is another story ;)
16:02.47thing0ahh yes
16:02.50thing0autocad
16:03.06thing0now with solids that have histoy
16:03.10thing0*history
16:10.54thing0I was teaching Autodesk Inventor
16:11.01thing0but yeah
16:11.17thing0with AutoCAD coming out with that 3d stuff in 2007 it was a bit weird
16:12.01brlcadautocad will probably forever be seen as the "2d approach" no matter how much 3d they stuff in
16:12.30brlcadfor 3d, you grab unigraphics, pro/e, solidworks, or catia
16:13.06brlcadat some point down the road, BRL-CAD will be in that list as well moreso than it is today
16:14.02thing0that would be good to see
16:17.13thing0how long do you think it will take>
16:17.13thing0?
16:17.13brlcadwe have most of the geometry engine aspects, particularly now with brep support being integrated
16:17.13thing0like
16:17.13thing0there is a bunch of free guys atm
16:17.13brlcadhaving a new enticing gui will be where the win can be made
16:17.21thing0ic
16:17.30brlcadmost users only care about the gui, not raw capabilities
16:17.37brlcadbrl-cad has extensive raw capability
16:17.40thing0hehe
16:17.43brlcadbut a difficult gui
16:17.45thing0yeah
16:18.00thing0just needs to be stupid simple
16:18.06thing0for the masses :P
16:18.13brlcadwhich is contrary to cad design in general
16:18.28brlcadcad is a complex domain, lots of different wants and expectations
16:19.07brlcadthere's a reason there's nothing open source even remotely close to a commercial package like pro/e
16:19.09thing0yeah I know
16:19.40brlcadaside from the 100+ cummulative staff years that they invest every single year..
16:20.10thing0yeah
16:20.22brlcadbecause it's a multi-billion dollar industry, everyone does their work in private and throws major commercial money at problems
16:20.22thing0but once the product gets more brand regonition
16:20.30thing0hehe
16:20.45brlcadit's hard enough to find open source talent that are interested/willing to make things better
16:20.53brlcadeven for something completely open like brl-cad
16:21.22thing0yeah I bet
16:21.24thing0I am still thinking of what todo with my free time
16:21.27thing0not sure what yet
16:21.43brlcadthere are reasons for that too, even not counting the mathematics, algorithms, and programming expertise generally needed
16:22.17brlcadit's just a big task, hard to get momentum going on something that big
16:22.53thing0yep
16:23.24thing0are you the project manager brlcad?
16:23.40brlcadyes
16:23.56thing0ic
16:24.15thing0well
16:24.26brlcadone thing that will hopefully spark activity that I'm looking to get in place this year is setting up an on-going GSoC-style program
16:24.48thing0Gsoc?
16:25.01brlcad~gsoc
16:25.03ibotgsoc is, like, the Google Summer of Code, a program run annually by Google to provide (paid for) jobs to students to code on open source projects over summer.  See http://code.google.com/soc/ for details.
16:25.16thing0yeah
16:25.28thing0i didn't know they had an acroynm for it
16:25.40thing0I forgot to apply last year
16:25.45thing0missed the date
16:25.50thing0I was PISSED ;)
16:25.54brlcad:)
16:26.17brlcadi missed the (mentorship) submission deadline both the first two years by mere days
16:26.19thing0one of the things I am looking at is trying to get some PM skills
16:26.28thing0I am a project engineer at the moment
16:26.30brlcadmade it this year, got bzflag accepted
16:26.36thing0but I want to be a PM eventually
16:26.56thing0was trying to find something that I am interested in to try to develop PM skills
16:26.57brlcadtitles are a bit superfluous ;)
16:27.06thing0so that I can become a better PM
16:27.10thing0yeah I know
16:27.26thing0but, its the capabilities which is what I want
16:27.58thing0i have spent many a night doing work
16:28.10thing0but if I could harness other people
16:28.13thing0could get more done
16:28.22thing0still refining the skill of delegation
16:28.35thing0need to be able to create understandable tasks
16:28.36brlcadmy roles fluctuate between pm, architect, developer, code reviewer, tester, interface designer, graphics artist, etc .. even though each is really a "role" in itself
16:28.38thing0:P\
16:28.46thing0hehe
16:28.55thing0brlcad is the one man army
16:28.56thing0hehe
16:29.27brlcadyeah, harnessing others and attracting development interest is one of the hardest parts
16:29.31brlcadyou need a foundation for that
16:29.33brlcadboth in the project
16:29.40brlcadand in your personality/goals/direction
16:30.08thing0yep
16:30.43thing0have you got milestones set for this year?
16:31.38brlcadfor what it's worth, it's my belief that you have to not only be willing to do the work yourself that you ask of others, but that you also have the experience of having done the work you ask of them sometime before (i.e. base technical experience)
16:31.56thing0exactly
16:31.58brlcadyeah, there are milestones as well as a rolling log
16:32.14thing0because if u haven't done it yourself
16:32.15brlcadthe brep steps I already mentioned
16:32.21thing0how do you know if they did it right?
16:32.35brlcadthere are other items documented in the TODO transcript, at least at a low-level
16:32.48thing0i see
16:33.00thing0is there a mailing list?
16:33.07brlcadnot so much that they've done it right/wrong -- there are varying degrees of both in any implementation
16:33.13brlcadthere are four mailing lists
16:33.18brlcadfor different purposes
16:33.41brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292users
16:33.46brlcadoops, http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292
16:33.56brlcader, and that's five
16:34.00thing0<PROTECTED>
16:35.14brlcadwhether they took the path you wanted or not isn't really the issue, it's empowering them in directions that you know are good to be going in and knowing what those directions are or need to be
16:35.42thing0hmm
16:37.13brlcadregardless of the "process" for getting them there or any given implementation approach sometimes
16:39.30thing0well brlcad you have given me some stuff to think about
16:39.58brlcadthing0: for what it's worth, the task of a cad package is big enough to have entirely independent projects going -- if you wanted to exercise your project engineering or project management skills, theres undoubtely an area you could work on
16:41.10brlcadit's generally set up as a meritocracy which basically means participation and involvement (at any level, whether coding or administrative or otherwise) are what dictate direction, voice, and decisions
16:41.39thing0hmm
16:42.21thing0I just don't want to commit to something unless I am going to stick with it
16:42.32thing0I hate doing that ;)
16:46.41brlcadjust saying the participation door is wide open :)
16:47.35thing0hehe
16:47.40thing0thanks
16:47.44thing0:)
16:50.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/shaders.sh: use a shaders.mged transcript so that error reports are more concise
16:54.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: clean up after solids and shaders
16:55.50thing0brlcad I take that you are Christopher Morrison
16:59.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: remove solids.mged
16:59.48thing0in regards to Gsoc would google be willing with them having sketchup
16:59.50thing0?
17:02.24brlcadthing0: brl-cad may or may not make gsoc itself, but we can certainly host our own program in a similar style
17:03.06thing0ahh ic
17:03.09brlcadgsoc also has several limitations of its own that we wouldn't have to impose like only summer and only code
17:03.22thing0lol
17:03.50brlcadwe could do a brl-cad winter of code for example, or even year-round running once a quarter or something similar
17:04.04thing0yeah
17:04.22brlcadthere are interested groups that are willing/interested in sponsoring such a setup for brl-cad
17:04.31brlcadand yes, i'm morrison
17:04.37thing0ic
17:04.49thing0this could be interesting
17:05.12brlcadcould be very interesting
17:05.24thing0hehe
17:06.52brlcadfor a mere staff year's funding, we could fund about 20 students for a gsoc-level timeframe (about three months) -- that's way more than we could handle right now managerially and with appropriate code review and mentoring
17:07.49thing0wow
17:07.50brlcadeven having just a handful students would accellerate interest and activity exceptionally
17:08.02thing0yeah I can see that
17:08.14thing0I think we could do recruitment drives
17:08.30thing0to multidisplinary engineers
17:08.34brlcadyep, or even just "task drives" to get things done
17:08.35thing0not just software
17:08.41brlcadala month of bugs style stuff
17:09.06thing0I am thinking Mechatronic (not just because I am one....) but because of the mechanical/software interest
17:09.24thing0or mech eng who are doing com sci
17:09.48thing0it is interesting that you have funding
17:09.58thing0the first problem is usually funding
17:10.21thing0but now that, that is sorted the next is people
17:11.01brlcadyeah, getting the mech-e, drafters, finite element analysts, solid modelers, elec-e, and others all working together on tool(s) that we all want and need
17:11.49thing0yeah
17:11.50thing0oh
17:12.02thing0not trying to distract from the current goal
17:12.09thing0but to through it into the mix
17:12.17brlcadmany of the goals coincide though
17:12.22thing0functional based modelling
17:12.23brlcadit's just a massive domain
17:12.55brlcadakin to the diagram I put together .. it's generally all "CAD", but the disciplines are vast with major overlap in some areas
17:13.13thing0using languages like modelica to describe the geometry
17:13.20brlcadthough many of the disciplines have different needs and expectations
17:13.20thing0in a procedural like language
17:14.24thing0yeah I remember reading that paper by that guy from lockhead
17:14.58thing0let me find the reference
17:16.40thing0http://www.voughtaircraft.com/ntcoe/presentations.htm
17:18.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (Makefile.am gqa.sh spdi.sh weight.sh): move more of the mged scripts to their own files so that segfault failures on linux are more brief.
17:19.22brlcadheh, the lockhead guy is apparently a lisp/scheme fan :)
17:19.29thing0yeah
17:19.44thing0brlcad: have you ever seen used modelica?
17:19.51brlcadah, haskell more specifically
17:19.54thing0*seen/used
17:20.23brlcadhis case points are a huge reason why brl-cad was open sourced in the first place
17:21.04thing0exactly
17:21.15thing0I HATE properitary formats
17:21.20thing0they are so painful
17:21.45brlcadcontrol, long-term accessibility, implementation openness, cross-platform identical behavior, NOT a proprietary binary format, uninhibited license, etc
17:22.28thing0yep
17:22.44brlcad"that's why we're here" :)
17:23.41thing0hehe
17:23.42thing0yeah
17:23.52brlcadthose ideas for a functional language ascii file format are interesting -- there are certainly some tradeoffs but the base idea is good
17:24.21thing0PTC engineering for there software has had huge chunks out sourced to India
17:24.31thing0this may seem unrelated
17:24.33thing0but I was thinking
17:24.34brlcadit's actually not far from brl-cad existing ascii file format, though we're intently procedural via the tcl subset -- you're not going to get functional without a functional language :)
17:24.47thing0it is because of the prohibitably costs
17:24.55thing0that CAD vendors are charging
17:25.12brlcadthey charge that much because they can :)
17:25.18thing0exactly
17:25.30thing0but PTC has had a lot of competition lately
17:25.35thing0so to cut costs
17:25.40brlcadbrl-cad's the next closest competitor and our gui is painful enough that they're not worried about us taking any business anytime soon
17:25.44thing0design goes to India
17:26.03brlcadnext closest open source competitor that is
17:26.16thing0??
17:26.30thing0who is the next closest open source competitor?
17:27.13brlcadbrl-cad is really the only open source package that is anywhere close to being a competitor to the commercial packages
17:27.18brlcadand we're still pretty far
17:27.33thing0ahh ok
17:28.12brlcadi mean there are several projects that have a gui or mesh editing or maybe parametrics or some other subset, but all of that really just barely scratches the surface of everything you need to be a real competitor
17:28.33brlcadthe landscape of what everyone wants really is massive, and takes a lot of effort
17:28.47thing0yeah
17:28.54brlcadbrl-cad's only as far along as it is because it's been under constant development for over two decades now
17:29.31brlcadwe certainly have the capability to compete -- like I said, we have most of the foundation -- we mostly lack in gui
17:30.22thing0hmm
17:30.29thing0it's sorta funny
17:30.32brlcadlast estimate I saw puts brl-cad at roughly 500 man-years invested
17:30.44thing0nice
17:30.50brlcadyou wouldn't think it looking at mged :)
17:31.15thing0hehe
17:31.15brlcaduntil you knew it inside and out
17:31.20thing0the GUI was the thing that annoyed me the most in current CAD systems
17:31.31thing0I wanted more of a consitent UI
17:31.37thing0no dialog boxes
17:31.46thing0more sorta consoleish
17:31.49thing0in the sense that
17:32.23thing0that there should be an area where the current tool should appear
17:32.27brlcadthen there's the problem of what is consistent to one engineer can be outright "repellant" to another ;)
17:32.30thing0it should always be the same
17:32.39brlcad"current tool should appear"?
17:32.46thing0yeah
17:32.51thing0let me explain
17:32.57thing0when I want todo an extrusion
17:33.02thing0a dialog popups up
17:33.10thing0where I have to fill in values
17:33.19brlcadmkey
17:33.25thing0there should be a part of the screen that is dedicated to it
17:33.35thing0solidworks sorta have the idea
17:33.50thing0but it is not that well implemented in my opinion
17:33.52brlcadah, you mean non-overlapping?
17:33.56thing0still very clunkey
17:34.05thing0yes, non overlapping
17:34.16brlcadyes, that's something I've had a strong pet peave about
17:34.23brlcadmodalities and dialogs in general
17:34.29thing0yes
17:34.32thing0I want a system
17:34.41thing0whereby the whole screen is the modal space
17:34.58thing0move the cursor over the edge of the screen and the bar fades in
17:35.08thing0just like in some IDEs
17:35.20thing0MSVC 2003 and up
17:35.27thing0it just makes more sense
17:35.35brlcadjason (the guy working on brep) has an impressive design that is entirely non-modal, non-overlapping -- very impressive, very new .. there's not much out there like it interface-wise
17:35.41thing0why waste screen real estate on tool bars?
17:35.55thing0woah
17:35.58thing0sounds cool
17:36.05thing0sounds really cool
17:36.58brlcadeven has a functioning prototype demo, although the demo is mac-only (as it was just a mockup)
17:37.17thing0ic
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17:39.46brlcadthe concept, however, is pretty sound
17:40.04thing0yeah
17:40.09brlcadconsidering using at least a lot of his ideas for the new editor interface
17:40.10thing0I am just thinking
17:40.30thing0have you thought about what the toolkit will be for UI?
17:41.18brlcadhere's some of his thoughts on the matter, though he's writing from the grander aspect of an operating system: http://www.imaginaryday.com/wiki/
17:41.38brlcadthe ideas hold for any "big system" though that has to manage a slew of data types and interactions
17:41.47thing0yeah
17:41.52brlcadi have though a LOT about the toolkit for the UI
17:41.57thing0have you seen the interface of UGS NX5?
17:42.33brlcadthe problem is that there's not much that I'm happy with so I'd not settled on anything at the moment -- only the high-level requirements from an architecture and integration perspective
17:42.45brlcadyes, I have
17:43.15brlcadi've got screenshots of just about all of the major cad systems to compare and contrast ideas and high-level layout
17:43.23thing0that is one thing that I always remember about UGS
17:43.39thing0they claim todo actual studies of users interaction with the software
17:43.41brlcadadobe has been leading the way, though, in terms of gui and integration
17:43.51thing0to try and make it better with every release
17:44.01thing0oh really, adobe
17:44.02thing0hmm
17:44.04thing0cool
17:45.24brlcadyeah, I worked with UGS pre-NX directly for several weeks analyzing their gui and interaction methods -- even back then it wasn't too bad, better than most really -- but it was still a complex system that took extensive effort and training to get started
17:46.19thing0yeah
17:46.38thing0but it seems that all parametric cads are the same
17:46.54thing0I don't seem to have any trouble moving around
17:47.24thing0I went from Inventor to Solidworks to Inventor to UGS to CATIA to Inventor
17:47.34thing0i mean
17:47.42thing0it's all the same philosphy
17:47.49brlcadyeah, once you learn the domain, it's not so bad
17:47.56thing0yeah
17:47.57brlcadthe entry to that domain is heavy though
17:48.01brlcadvery heavy
17:48.08thing0that's the problem
17:48.12thing0it doesn't need to be
17:48.16brlcadyou've got a lot of expert knowledge and experience under your belt to be able to do that
17:48.49thing0I remember a quote from a guy I taught, the domain seems to be counter-intuitive sometimes with a lot of idosyncrincies
17:49.20thing0everything non inventor in my previous list was from curiosity
17:49.40thing0I play with the competition so that I could have a better understanding of how the history of it all evolve
17:49.41thing0d
17:49.52thing0I don't want to come across as a person who knows it all
17:49.54thing0cause I don't
17:50.02thing0I am a tinker by trade :)
17:50.23thing0although, I did use solidworks for a bit of a longer period
17:52.55brlcadsounds familiar ;)
17:53.39thing0Both of the above waste my time (which I personally consider rather precious), distract me from my work
17:53.43brlcadyou at least have an understanding and appreciation for how easy it can/should be and want it to be better, that's great
17:53.47thing0OMG I have used that before
17:54.39brlcadso do you code as well, or mostly user-level interaction?
17:55.06brlcadsounds like you know how to code
17:55.45thing0i taught myself C when I was bored
17:56.02thing0before going to uni and sitting through a C class which I already knew
17:56.05thing0:)
17:56.38thing0it's a skill that I have used every now and then
17:56.54thing0I am using it at the moment at my current job to help automate some tasks
17:56.59thing0but I mean
17:57.06thing0it is extremly simple
17:57.16thing0I need to ramp up my programming skills a bit
17:57.21thing0they are a tad dusty :D
17:57.47brlcadgotcha
17:57.58thing0just had more important things ;)
17:58.13thing0teaching CAD requires you to drive the program, not write it ;)
17:59.10brlcadyep
17:59.39brlcadwhilst working on the docs for brl-cad, code trickles almost to a halt
18:00.10brlcaddocumentation is a full-time job in itself, and a critical one depending on the interface
18:00.25thing0yeah I know what you mean
18:00.47thing0I have had to be a heck of a lot more thoughtful in my little automation exercise at work
18:00.59thing0I want it to be fully traceable
18:01.15thing0cause the software we are using from our client is a bit sketchy
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18:30.25brlcadthere he be, howdy Waimea
18:35.12akrealhello everybody!
18:35.57brlcadhello akreal
18:37.10thing0hey akreal
18:38.34akreali see that you discussed toolkit for the GUI, what do you think about Qt?
18:41.45thing0well
18:41.45thing0I was looking at this before
18:41.45thing0just recently
18:41.45thing0Qt is quite good
18:41.45thing0I have tinkered with it before
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18:42.40brlcadQt is very good, their biggest limitation (imho) is their half-free licensing (which makes using them political), perception of complexity, and limited cross-platform support (i.e. to more than just win, mac, linux)
18:43.07brlcadotherwise, they're probably the best toolkit right now, with lots over their biggest competitor, gtk
18:43.44brlcadthat said, they also push the same general gui interface of windows, icons, desktops, etc with anything non-standard being just as hard if not harder than going all-out custom (gui-wise)
18:45.06thing0hehe I was about to talk about the licensing issue, but I thought I would check incase something had changed since the last time I played with qt (a year or two back )
18:45.26brlcadblender's approach of a gui fully designed in opengl is a great one (imho) as it is the most expressive for something as complex as this task domain, but lacks in other regards of consistency and integration -- that mainly being a limitation of their implementation itself, though, and not opengl guis in general
18:45.47brlcadthing0: it's bad enough that you had to check -- that's what causes the political charge
18:47.36brlcadif you look for opengl gui toolkits, though, there isn't much out there (that I've found) that is any good
18:47.37brlcadthe best you can probably find popularity-wise is cegui
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18:49.31brlcadi have a whole matrix of concerns written down in a spreadsheet somewhere that talks about all of the various weighted considerations and available approaches
18:50.33brlcadah, here we go
18:50.40brlcadtk, cegui, gtk, qt, clangui, wxwidgets, agar, libgui, fltk, custom
18:51.02smallfoot-oh many
18:51.11brlcadthat was just gui toolkits
18:51.21smallfoot-ya
18:51.34brlcadfor windowing and context management, that was a completely separate consideration
18:52.36thing0i used fltk
18:52.38brlcadqt, clanlib, osg, sdl, ogre, java, gtk, glut, wxwidgets, custom (in no particular order)
18:52.43thing0it was quite good
18:52.49thing0so simple and lightweight
18:52.55thing0fully configurable
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18:56.07brlcadyeah, it's got lots of nice attributes and configurability
18:56.16brlcadeven customization, ala http://www.fltk.org/applications/images/SpiralSynth.png
18:56.23thing0yeah
18:56.35thing0I was using it on a personal project
18:56.57thing0so I spent at least a month or 2 using it
18:57.04thing0was quite fun ;)
18:57.05brlcadtheir downsides are similar to cegui though
18:57.30brlcadfixed widgets iirc, not scalable -- and not drawn via opengl? (don't remember)
18:58.02brlcadmaking seamless integration with a 3d environment (widget-wise) a bit difficult/impossible
18:58.34thing0yeah
18:58.39thing0i mean
18:58.43brlcadand they do lose points on perception and popularity
18:58.46thing0I cannot confirm nor deny that
18:59.22thing0based off UI interface we were discussing before
18:59.37thing0shouldn't we just be looking at a open gl front end
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19:00.22thing0hi RodGallowGlass
19:00.32RodGallowGlasshey
19:00.48brlcadthat's why I broke it out into graphics context and gui separately since you can embed many of the toolkits in any context
19:01.59brlcadeven for the UI discussed, that could still be implemented custom or via toolkits like cegui, libgui, or customized versions of those even
19:02.16thing0ahh ok
19:02.19brlcadRodGallowGlass: glad to read you made some .1 progress :)
19:02.24thing0I see what ur getting at
19:02.29RodGallowGlass:)
19:02.40RodGallowGlassforced, i hate forcing things ;)
19:03.31brlcadtis good progress though
19:03.44RodGallowGlassyeah, I'm happy
19:03.45brlcadand you already helped pin a couple issues down in .1
19:03.56RodGallowGlassdidn't mean to ;)
19:05.58RodGallowGlasscould it be possible the x11 summary report is inverted, i mean it said no x11 but seems to be building agaionst it anyway.
19:07.35RodGallowGlasswell while this churns away, i'm going to visit the garden, be back later
19:18.15thing0brb
20:07.20thing0i'm going now
20:07.24thing0cya later people
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23:03.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: don't dereference null if we're failing early
23:18.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/moss.sh: fix call to pixdiff and ws
23:53.01RodGallowGlass;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070604

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070604

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01:38.10RodGallowGlasswinsock.h, unistd.h, shouldn't that be one or the other? ahh never mind I keep forgetting I'm on a Cygwin system here :)
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03:07.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: use common.h so it can work on non-configure platforms too
03:08.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_system.h: don't need SUNOS now that he found the right one
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09:50.38yukonbobcan anybody explain the way to use the dsp primitive, and any 'gotchas' associated with it (ie: is it considered experimental (and why), does it incur a large performance penalty?, etc.)
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15:02.40thing0hey all
15:02.44thing0hey brlcad
15:08.51brlcadhowdy
15:09.33thing0I replied to your test email
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15:20.58thing0alright
15:21.01thing0me sleep time
15:21.08thing0have real work tomorrow
15:21.09thing0hehe
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18:01.52``ErikI WANT MY DMAN TOY CAR@!#~!
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20:18.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: Remove the standalone pullback curve impl from compilation (need to delete files later)
20:20.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Debug IGES parsing/handling and openNURBS extensions. Still not building a simple B-Rep correctly (trim vertices not agreeing)
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21:27.50yukonbobI'll put this out one more time :)
21:27.57yukonbobcan anybody explain the way to use the dsp primitive, and any 'gotchas' associated with it (ie: is it considered experimental (and why), does it incur a large performance penalty?, etc.)
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21:32.00brlcadyukonbob: hm, i missed that question originally apparently
21:32.06brlcadand yes, I can explain how to use it
21:32.39brlcadthere aren't any gotchas that come to mind immediately, but there probably are some that I just implicitly don't think about any more -- it's certainly not experimental
21:33.48brlcadit's actually a rather highly optimized terrain in-core implementation, one of the fastest you'll find particularly for ray-tracing massive datasets
21:34.21brlcadbasically to create a dsp, you need to prepare a data file -- this data file needs to be a binary file filled with unsigned short integer values
21:34.45brlcadthere are a variety of ways to get that, depending on what format you have to start with, but a simple image can work for example as a starting point
21:34.57yukonbobah --- I was guessing what the format might be, and I've been trying arrays of text values with various seperators ;)
21:37.36yukonbobis Create->dsp the only way to create one, or is there an mged command-line version as well?
21:39.06brlcadanything you can do in the gui had an mged command line variant .. *anything* ;)
21:39.18yukonbob!nice -- that's what I like to hear :)
21:39.48brlcadthe gui really just kicks off commands, so it's all uniform
21:40.09brlcadthere are, though, plenty of things you can do on the command line that you can't do via the gui
21:46.19yukonbobbrlcad: when you're talking about using an image for the shortint values, what do you mean? Is there a special header required for the dsp data, or can I just use a C prog that dumps shortints to a file and use that?
21:48.52brlcadyukonbob: heh, if you want to write a C prog that dumps shortints, then you're golden
21:49.05brlcadbut there may already be tools depending on what data you're starting with
21:50.53yukonbobbrlcad: I'm not starting with any data per se, just exploring brlcad :) -- I _really_ like the precision, and the flexibility/strength of using Tcl in it, so now I'm exploring the features I haven't touched yet, and trying to figure out what I can use it for besides rapid image prototyping...
21:51.16brlcade.g. if I have a brl-cad .pix file (3-channel, 24 bpp interleaved RGB raw binary image file) -- I can use pix-bw (1-channel 8 bpp raw b&w binary image file) to get monotonic values and then use 'cv' to convert to unsigned short ints
21:53.12yukonbobOK -- that's something I can try...
21:53.40brlcadhere's an example that I did a few months back pretty quickly -- taking data for the puget sound:  http://www.cc.gatech.edu/projects/large_models/ps.html
21:54.12brlcadthose happen to be 16bit values already (0-65535) which is what the dsp uses
21:54.33brlcadcreate a dsp, accentuate the vertical scaling for effect, and you get http://ftp.brlcad.org/images/puget_mged.png
21:55.40yukonbobOK -- the first site you gave is where you grabbed the data from, then the ftp.brlcad.org[...] is your processing of that same data...
21:55.48brlcadright
21:57.20brlcadwhen you create a dsp, you have two options -- you can keep the data in an external file, or stash the data into the .g file
21:57.20brlcaduse the "in" command to create one
22:02.30yukonbobexcellent -- now, before I take too much more of your time (and you may not have a quick answer for this) -- what can I do with brlcad besides generate images to screen --  I see when I render that I can get clues about collisions in 3d space where object "illegally" intersect, and I can spin/flip/cut-away objects, etc., but what about what I've read about ballistic analysis, and radiation, etc... is this stuff done w/ data that brlcad knows a
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22:12.12brlcadyukonbob: your question was cut-off at "that brlcad knows a"
22:12.30yukonbobthat brlcad knows about, and does it ship with these tools? Is there a site that scratches the surface of  features like this? (I'm opening up a _huge_ subject area I realize, and just need a pointer to a site, or  we can talk about this over time at some later date ;)
22:12.42brlcadthere are a variety of geometric analyses that you can run as well as other visualizations
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22:14.46brlcadyukonbob: brl-cad tries to strictly limit itself to solid modeling, geometric representation, geometric analysis (answering questions about the physical properties of something modeled) -- the other analyses that we integrate with are predominantly external codes with massive efforts of their own into various methodologies
22:15.21brlcade.g. the various equations for ballistics penetration are not something you'll likely find in brl-cad or on any website for that matter..
22:17.26RodGallowGlassbrlcad: that command line entry in the gui is quite nice, having the gui up and issuing rot 10 10 10 is nifty,got it to work in that mingw build I sent you too.
22:18.02yukonbobOK -- I'm not actually interested in ballistics or radiation, but was curious about what else can be done w/ brlcad and it's data -- there are references to radiation, ballistics, etc on various sites, so that's why I brought those up... I'll have more questions about the "answering questions about physical properties" later -- for now I'll let you get on with your day :)
22:18.52yukonbobbrlcad: thanks very much for your time... I appreciate it :)
22:19.30brlcadyukonbob: brl-cad integrated into a lot of external analysis codes in particular for it's ray-tracing engine -- it's rather trivial to take a given model and ask brl-cad questions about a shotline .. where is the geometry on a given shotline, how thick is it, what material is it, what was the obliquity, etc -- that in turn can drive other decisions
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22:21.57brlcadwhat brl-cad can do analysis-wise, though, are geometry analysis questions too -- are there overlapping materials (rtcheck, g_qa), what's the weight of a given component (rtweight, g_qa), center of mass, what's the projected presented area of something (rtarea), what's the bounding box size, etc
22:22.30brlcadon the ray-tracing side, it has tools for simulating optical energy, multispectral (thermal, xray, infrared) energy, performing edge detection (rtedge) for hidden line renderings, and a bit more
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22:29.35yukonbobbrlcad: I'm pretty excited by BRL-CAD -- seems like there's lots of space for exploration... I'm glad it's got a tcl interface for scripting too, which opens up possibilities... thx again for your insight, and talk soon
22:31.16brlcadyukonbob: no problem, i'm here most of the time or will answer the log later if i'm not ;)
22:31.50brlcadwe're looking for new devs too so you're more than welcome to jump in -- anything I can do to help you along, feel free to let me know ;)
22:33.15yukonbobbrlcad: thx -- I'm just working on a port of brlcad to NetBSD (via pkgsrc), and think I noticed some things that can be improved in the build process --- once I verify, I'll be sure to pass that info on, and otherwise, look forward to being part of the BRL-CAD community :)
22:33.55brlcadsweet
22:37.56PrezKennedyhey brlcad, have you ever visited http://thedailywtf.com/ ?
22:43.28brlcadI have now
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04:06.04RodGallowGlasshttp://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos        <----- why can't I get 7-10 to do this
04:06.28RodGallowGlasswindowsside album
04:07.27RodGallowGlassframebuffer came up sweetly, had four open at once
04:10.40RodGallowGlasshah faceplate gui now works, i wont post another shot for now
04:11.24RodGallowGlassmay I change the version number on my copy of 7.8.4 or is that prohibited?
04:16.13brlcadit's open source, you can do wahtever you want with it... just what's the point?
04:16.46brlcadit doesn't provide any benefit
04:17.54RodGallowGlassto distinguish what im doing from whats on sourceforge, or does the stuff on sourceforge dissapear when a new release comes out
04:19.44RodGallowGlassbtw what are you doing still up :)
04:21.20RodGallowGlassyou worry that I'll spread it around?
04:21.56RodGallowGlassit's not going anyfurther than me and you unless *you spread it around
04:22.26RodGallowGlassbut im trying to convert to 7.10
04:30.18yukonbobbrlcad: 1 quick q -- when rendering large DSPs, (like that pac. north west stuff we were talking about) are gob & gobs of RAM typically required? I've got 1G RAM, but am dying w/ insufficient memory... can I tune rt? (I've even tried "-j 10,10,50,50", but still run out of memory) btw, I've got 4G swap...
04:32.13brlcadit is an in-core algorithm, so it has to be able to represent a 3D version of the data in memory (which is some multiplier of the input datasize that escapes me at the moment, but is larger of course)
04:32.47brlcadthe acceleration structure it uses to progress fast through the dsp also takes up some memory space
04:33.22brlcadhow big is the data set?
04:33.27yukonbobout of curiousity, what are the specs of the machine you used to build pugeot sound?
04:33.50yukonbobI'm using the smallest of that Pacific Northwest set...
04:34.10brlcadthe size of the image being rendered doesn't matter much at all, it's the dsp data itself that will likely dominate
04:34.17yukonbob37G
04:34.32yukonbobMegs, rather :)
04:34.42brlcadhehe, i was going to say...
04:36.09brlcadyou mean the puget sound dataset?
04:37.50yukonboboh no -- I'm talking about the whole region -- the specfic name I'm using is...disappointment
04:38.19brlcadi mean this is data you have then from some other source?
04:39.07brlcadmore importantly, when you create the dsp, does it show the wireframe in mged?
04:39.08yukonbob"disappoint" rather -- for Cape Disappointment -- it's from http://duff.geology.washington.edu/data/raster/tenmeter/onebytwo10/
04:39.20yukonbobwireframe looks like I imagine it should...
04:40.19yukonbob1542x12018 data points
04:40.25brlcadcan you post up the .g somewhere so I can look at it?  (can upload via anon ftp to ftp.brlcad.org/incoming)
04:41.03brlcadhm, that is indeed just 37MB
04:45.45yukonbobbrlcad: can you unzip bzip2 compressed-files?
04:47.29yukonbob"disappointment.dsp.bz2" incoming...
04:52.00PrezKennedyi want FiOS!!
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04:56.03yukonbobbrlcad: disappointment.dsp.bz2 is uploaded --- I renamed the extention .dsp for my own identification, but w/i the .zip archive, it was the .bil file...
05:03.28brlcadlooking
05:06.41yukonbob...then I just open new db, and "in testmap dsp" file, [filename], 1542, 12018, 0, ad, 1, 1
05:07.31yukonbobsometimes I'll even get a malloc issue at this point, but if I restart gmed, the 'testmap' is there, and seems usable.
05:08.53brlcadk
05:09.05yukonbobwireframe  looks "reasonable" and is zoom-able/rotate-able, etc., but a simple "rt -o map.pix"  chokes for me:
05:09.30yukonbobAdditional mem=8192., #malloc=34, #free=2, #realloc=1 (32 retained) 0 malloc1738539264 dsp_bb array
05:09.33yukonbobbu_malloc: Insufficient memory available, sbrk(0)=xc745000
05:09.36yukonbobbu_malloc: malloc failure
05:09.38yukonbobRaytrace complete.
05:09.58brlcadtrying to allocate 1.7GB
05:10.50yukonbob... I guess I'm just shy, and that's that for that, then :P ?
05:12.51yukonbobotherwise, I can strip data --- ie: remove every other column in odd rows, and skip even rows to "take strips" out of data and interpolate down...
05:14.20brlcadi'm not convinced there's not something else going on, a bug that was introduced perhaps
05:14.57yukonbobI'm running 7.8, btw
05:15.55yukonbobout of curiousity, what are the specs of the machine that you rendered Pugeot Sound with?
05:15.56brlcadhave to rebuild here, so it'll be a little while before I can test
05:16.00yukonbobnp
05:18.24brlcadiirc, I rendered that on a dual G4 a couple years ago, 2GB ram
05:18.57yukonbobok -- and that dataset is substantially larger than "disappointment"...
05:19.39brlcadyeah, using the 16kx16k dataset .. about 500MB raw data
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05:39.52yukonbobbrlcad: fyi -- I downsampled the data (stipped every second row, every second column) to make dataset 0.25 of previous size, and still fails w/ malloc...
05:42.08yukonbob...and occasionally fails w/ malloc on creating the dsp, and crashes... but enough bug reports for tonight -- good evening :)
05:50.06brlcadyukonbob: thanks for the reports.. i'll have to call it a night as well and pick up on this tomorrow -- it's highly suspect that you are just up against some bug
05:52.00brlcadi'm curious how you parsed dem data so quickly too... folks have begged for a dem to dsp converter for quite a while
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07:58.37brlcadyukonbob: well the good news is that I can reproduce the problem with that data set, it goes into a frenzy getting stuck in an allocation loop of some sort during prep
07:58.58brlcadshouldn't be too hard to pin down since I can reproduce it .. let you know what I find out
08:01.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dsp primitive is going into what seems to be an unbounded memory allocation loop inside dsp_layers during prep, reported by yukonbob (thx)
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12:07.06tarzeaubrlcad: what is the status on modification and redistribution of the Documentation at http://brlcad.com/ ?
12:07.21tarzeaubrlcad: is it possible to allow for change/redistribution in the documents? and the sources?
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12:37.39Laniakeatarzeau: hi
12:37.48tarzeauhi Laniakea
12:37.57tarzeaukarel!
12:38.09tarzeauLaniakea: how are you able to build brlcad on linux?
12:38.29tarzeauLaniakea: and do you know www.sauerbraten.org ?
12:38.43Laniakeatarzeau: just compile from the sources
12:39.07Laniakeatarzeau: no I didn't know sauerbraten
12:39.10Laniakeais it free software?
12:39.17tarzeauyes it is
12:39.40tarzeaui get this error when i compile from the source: .libs/itclStubLib.o: In function `Itcl_InitStubs':
12:39.43tarzeau/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr'
12:40.41Laniakeaoh freeware, sucks
12:40.42Laniakeatarzeau: actually the latest brl-cad doesn't compile on my openbsd
12:40.49Laniakeaso I use the one before :)
12:40.56tarzeauwhich version is that?
12:41.03tarzeauwhy does it not compile for you, same reason?
12:41.18tarzeaudo you use special configure parameters?
12:41.53Laniakeatarzeau: the working one is 7.8.4
12:42.02LaniakeaI don't remember the nonworking one and don't remember the error message
12:44.51tarzeauLaniakea: k, i try that
12:45.08tarzeauLaniakea: any links2 news? and will you play or model stuff in sauerbraten?
12:45.25Laniakeatarzeau: no, since sauerbraten is not free software
12:45.30Laniakeawe fixed some serious bugs in links
12:50.12elite01_Laniakea, the engine is free
12:50.53tarzeauelite01_: i'm working on free maps,textures,skyboxes
12:51.01tarzeauelite01_: gonna find someone to make free music/sound effects
12:51.24tarzeauLaniakea: wonder what those serious bugs are...
12:51.39tarzeauLaniakea: any plan to stop development of version 0.x/1.x of links?
12:56.45LaniakeaI don't know about any plan
13:00.30``Erikwhat's the error with 7.10.0 on obsd?
13:00.52tarzeaui might've been missing libraries, retrying
13:01.21``Erikheh, damn, I looked at sauerbraten and went "wow, that looks like cube, did cube change its name?"
13:01.33``Erikis lee (eihrul/phinode) still working on it?
13:01.33tarzeau``Erik: yes :)
13:01.44tarzeau``Erik: it's cube 2, yeah they do, on quakenet #sauerbraten
13:02.18``Erikwhen he was going to cmu
13:02.22tarzeauheh
13:02.26``Eriksmall world
13:02.30tarzeauindeed
13:02.57tarzeaudid cube also head the built-in editor?
13:03.13``Erikhuh?
13:03.25tarzeausauerbraten has a built-in editor
13:03.30tarzeaui see
13:04.28``Erikum, my interests were more science/engineering visualization, internals (working on ogl drivers, etc) and I flirted a bit with making a space combat game similar to the old xwing and wing commander games
13:04.38``Erik"another fps" wasn't really on my radar
13:04.44tarzeaui see
13:04.50tarzeauit's also an RPG
13:04.54tarzeauwww.eisenstern.com :)
13:05.13``Erikheh, all my free time is blown on WoW these days :( *cry*
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15:54.42thing0hey everyone
15:54.42thing0what's up?
15:56.36elite01thing0, the ceiling *hahahalolololroflmao*
16:04.28thing0lol
16:04.36thing0funny elite01 funny...
16:04.39thing0;)
16:04.58elite01absolutely
16:05.34elite01normally, i'm not like that, but this is the low mark of the week
16:25.49``Erikuh huh, rrriiiigggghhhhhttttt
16:25.50elite01o rly!
16:25.50``Erikdamnit
16:25.50``Erikjust hAD to remind me
16:27.36``Erikhttp://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/lolcode_r.jpg
16:27.37``Erikawesome
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17:56.32brlcadtarzeau: yes, change/redistribution is allowed -- some are public domain, some are BSD licensed
17:57.03tarzeaubrlcad: is that written somewhere?
17:57.12tarzeaui can't find any info it's public domain or bsd licensed
17:57.21tarzeauhey docelic
17:57.57brlcadtarzeau: alas, the docs aren't doc'd very well :)
17:58.11tarzeauhttp://bp1.blogger.com/_MqThGo7hFdU/RldMKz1NEJI/AAAAAAAAAEA/qCFzfluWH94/s1600-h/ohalp.jpg
17:58.18tarzeau``Erik: for ya
17:58.30brlcadi can tell you as needed, it's generally a matter of whether the document was created before open sourcing or whether it's a signficant derivative
17:58.42docelichey hey tarzeau
17:58.52tarzeaudocelic: since where are you using brlcad? and what for?
17:58.54brlcadpre-open source documents, like the tutorial series, are all public domain
17:59.02docelictarzeau: not using, just interested
17:59.22brlcadthose that are "part of the sources" and mostly those in CVS are all BDL (BSD doc license)
17:59.29brlcadand that's stated in the COPYING file
17:59.56tarzeauok thanks
18:00.03tarzeaufirst need to get the debian package properly done
18:00.08tarzeaudocelic: i see :)
18:01.46jack-tarzeau: how are you handling the structure?
18:01.57tarzeaujack-: what structure?
18:02.05jack-like, you certainly dont want to stuff all the binaries into $prefix/bin
18:02.15tarzeaujack-: all binaries go into /usr/bin
18:02.28tarzeauif they are not supposed to be run from users they go to /usr/lib/brlcad/
18:02.30jack-i let brlcad completely reside in $prefix/lib/brlcad
18:02.45tarzeaujack-: and you got debian (or ubuntu)?
18:02.50jack-(for fink/macosx that is..pretty debianish)
18:02.51tarzeaujack-: currently i'm not able to build it
18:03.00jack-yes, ubuntu, but it doesnt matter for brlcad ;)
18:03.01tarzeauah yeah, i looked into fink lately
18:03.05jack-i'm a mac guy
18:03.08tarzeaucan you build it on ubuntu?
18:03.13jack-never tried
18:03.19tarzeaujack-: cool, me too (indirectly, nextstep/openstep). you into cocoa?
18:03.22jack-does it break at sdl stuff?
18:03.26jack-not at all :)
18:03.43jack-..if yes, disable adrt and leave it out
18:03.50jack-not mature enough to be useful
18:03.55jack-and doesnt like to get built
18:04.00tarzeauno, this is the problem:
18:04.13tarzeau.libs/itclStubLib.o: In function `Itcl_InitStubs':
18:04.13tarzeau/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStucollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
18:04.33jack-hrm
18:04.37tarzeau.libs/itclStubLib.o: In function `Itcl_InitStubs':
18:04.37tarzeau/var/www/debian/brl-cad/brlcad-0+20070603/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclStubLib.c:71: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr'
18:04.56jack-and if you get it to build its own libtcl/libtk?
18:05.03jack-can be done with configure options
18:05.09tarzeaujack-: do i want that?
18:05.12jack-maybe
18:05.33jack-i'm lucky enough to have a brlcad-compatible libtcl api
18:05.39tarzeauyou shouldn't do that on debian systems.. but then
18:05.48jack-but my libtik caused trouble too, so i just let brlcad do its own one
18:05.52tarzeauyuck src/ is full of other projects
18:05.54jack-problem solved, works 100%
18:05.59jack-yes :P
18:06.00tarzeauwhat's the configure options for you?
18:06.05jack-complete UTAHRLE etc
18:06.24jack-./configure --prefix=$MYPREFIX --otheroptions
18:06.25tarzeaumaybe it's a start to get ugly packages, then work them down
18:06.35tarzeaui want to know your --otheroptions :)
18:06.43jack-just do ./configure --help and read that bible..
18:06.46jack-ok hold on a sec
18:06.47tarzeauok
18:06.56tarzeaufinishing to build pixie first.. but then i'll check that
18:08.00jack-pixie rocks :) great renderer
18:08.32jack-arent you pretty jealous sometimes when you see those 200 extra repos and 20000 packages in ubuntu..
18:08.47tarzeaunot at all
18:08.52tarzeaui hate unofficial repos
18:09.04tarzeauthey break stuff, they are of lowest quality
18:09.09tarzeaui like to have stuff in debian main
18:09.11jack-i can understand that, yeah
18:09.25tarzeauubuntu doesn't have half as much of the software debian sid+experimental has
18:09.30tarzeaujack-: besides i'm a packaging whore:
18:09.33jack-oh? cool :)
18:09.38tarzeaujack-: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=gurkan@linuks.mine.nu
18:09.55tarzeau(doing this also at work, well got the job after i was doing many packages)
18:10.00tarzeaupretty cool actually
18:10.32jack-:)
18:10.53jack-http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/maintainer.php?maintainer=jackfink
18:10.55jack-= me
18:11.09jack-not less of a packaging whore i guess
18:11.12tarzeaujack-: hehe :) and i got like 33 ports in freebsd
18:11.27jack-but fink is fun, i discovered pretty much all the stuff myself
18:11.28tarzeaui got a mac os x box too at work, did we meet in #fink ?
18:11.34tarzeaui tried to make some debian2fink tool
18:11.38jack-some things never got packaged into any dist yet :)
18:11.46jack-might well have been :)
18:11.50tarzeaujack-: check http://gnu.ethz.ch/fink/debian2fink.txt
18:11.56tarzeaujack-: which? which?
18:12.00tarzeaui'll make debian packages :)
18:12.26jack-google for sphinx project
18:12.26jack-some .edu site
18:12.27tarzeauis there stats of fink packages and its maintainers? i could add them to http://io.debian.net/~tar/bugstats/
18:12.47jack-hmm, i'm not in the core team..i'll check
18:13.00jack-think there's no real stats system at all, yet
18:13.27tarzeaudo you know condor wisconsin ?
18:13.39jack-the name rings a bell
18:13.44jack-but i have no idea atm
18:13.46tarzeaujob distribution
18:15.44jack-cksfv, evolvotron, bwm-ng, iftop, throttled are probably the rarest ones on the list
18:15.54jack-not sure if they ever got packaged anywhere else yet
18:16.25jack-packaging stuff is sweet, somehow
18:16.33tarzeauoh evolvotron looks interesting
18:16.38jack-100% legal and still some kind of piracy ;)
18:16.41tarzeaujack-: yeah many people get to use software
18:16.42jack-yeah it rocks!
18:17.06tarzeaujack-: like i found www.sauerbraten.org as a package, i got addicted to badly, since a week
18:17.07tarzeaunow to help improve the game i found misfit model 3d and packaged it right away :)
18:17.14jack-cool :)
18:17.22tarzeauthen stumpled upon old wishlist bugreports like brlcad and pixie .. doing them as well
18:17.54jack-once i know you better, i'll tell you what made me discover sphinx2/sphinx3 and like 5 other open source speech recognizin tools
18:18.01jack-life rocks, somehow ;)
18:18.24tarzeauheh k
18:18.38tarzeauif you ever are bored check out my http://livecd.gnustep.org/
18:19.20jack-nice :)
18:19.35jack-like we have a guy in #fink who does an own slackintosh thing
18:19.38jack-fun as well
18:20.02jack-anyway, i need to jump out
18:20.05jack-later :)
18:20.08tarzeaujack-: you know what fink package is missing? opencubicplayer
18:20.10tarzeaulater
18:20.16jack-opencubic?
18:20.20tarzeauyeah music player
18:20.45jack-better than amarok/xmms/juk/noatun/beep/etc/etc?
18:20.50tarzeauhttp://cow.ethz.ch/ocp2.png
18:20.59tarzeauhttp://cow.ethz.ch/ocp.png
18:21.07tarzeaurly! kickass i swear.
18:21.24jack-cute :)
18:21.32jack-i'll check what it needs
18:21.47tarzeaucu
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20:36.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: debug to stdout instead of error (easier to log everything together)
20:39.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: Add more debug statements... fix trim curve orientation issue (openNURBS trims must be properly oriented whether or not the model-space curve is) and fix isoparametric flag issue
20:41.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: Fix IGES string->double conversion bugs (duh)
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20:45.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Fix brep plot() problem with non-trivial faces (i.e. those coming from IGES), perform simplified edge rendering (still needs to be fleshed out to handle non-linear curves)
20:47.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add some additional debug statements for testing pullback_curve behavior
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070606

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070606

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03:54.50*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
05:16.10brlcadpython /names
05:16.22brlcadalllrighty then
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07:57.31jack-tarzeau: "ksquirrel" is missing in debian+ubuntu
07:57.37jack-wonder why, its a nice one
07:59.27tarzeaujack-: kde software? i avoid all qt/gtk/kde/gnome software
07:59.28jack-let me know if you think we should "found" #packaging-whores on freenode or so :P
07:59.33jack-yeah, kde stuff
07:59.35jack-ok then
07:59.42tarzeauheh, no but did you look at the debian2fink thing?
07:59.49jack-evolvotron is qt too though ;)
07:59.56tarzeaui wasn't able to build evolvotron
07:59.56jack-but it owns..and yes i did
08:00.01tarzeausome qt exceptions are ok
08:00.07jack-hold on a sec
08:00.16tarzeau++ -c -pipe -Wall -W -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math '-DEVOLVOTRON_VERSION="0.4.0"' '-DEVOLVOTRON_BUILD="0.4.0 (Build options:  Release)"' -DNDEBUG -DQT_NO_ASCII_CAST -pthread -D_REENTRANT  -DQT_NO_DEBUG -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT -DQT_SHARED -DQT_TABLET_SUPPORT -I/usr/share/qt3/mkspecs/default -I. -I/usr/include/qt3 -Imoc/ -o dialog_favourite.o dialog_favourite.cpp
08:00.21tarzeaumutation_parameters.h:269: error: extra qualification 'MutationParameters::' on member 'random_function_stub'
08:00.24tarzeaumutation_parameters.h:280: error: extra qualification 'MutationParameters::' on member 'random_function'
08:00.28tarzeaufunction_node.h:136: error: extra qualification 'FunctionNode::' on member 'stubiterations'
08:00.31tarzeaumutatable_image.h:71: warning: unused parameter 'sinz'
08:00.33tarzeaucan you help?
08:00.51jack-hold on :) and lets do that somewhere else, the brlcad folks will mind
08:00.54jack-one sec
08:02.35jack-come join #packaging-whores
09:05.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.dsp: Add opennurbs_ext functionality to librt
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10:37.48yukonbobcan anybody give me some direction to finding out what "cut direction" means in the dsp primitive?
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11:14.12producemenchtotal newby here, sorry, is there a staffer available?
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11:24.09producemenchanyone home?
11:24.31producemenchI'm looking to set up my brand new BRL CAD on ubuntu
11:24.39tarzeauhey producemench
11:24.47producemenchHiya
11:24.49tarzeauproducemench: i'm working on making official packages for debian and ubuntu :)
11:24.49producemench:)
11:24.54producemenchyay
11:24.59tarzeauproducemench: you get it to build?
11:25.00producemenchI got a .deb
11:25.06Laniakea_tarzeau: do you use brl-cad or do you just port it for debian?
11:25.26producemenchi don't port or use yet :(
11:25.28tarzeauLaniakea_: i just want to make the package first, once it works, i might even use it! for sure
11:25.35producemenchI just got it from sf
11:25.37tarzeauproducemench: from where got you the deb?
11:25.40tarzeauah that one
11:25.43producemenchyep
11:25.46producemenchno go yet
11:26.07tarzeauk
11:26.22producemenchany idea how to get the first command to work?
11:26.59producemenchI used gdebi to install the package but I don't think it's configured right
11:27.44producemenchtarz?
11:29.00producemenchshould I be at the ubuntu forum?
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11:39.04tarzeaui don't know
11:45.42producemench<PROTECTED>
11:45.58producemenchhehe
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11:49.04producemenchwell, I'll try back when I know more about IRC. Good to meet you tarz. Glad you're out there. :)
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13:13.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/plot3.h: one more consistency cleanup (__ in header protection of vmath.h)
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13:33.25``Erik*yawn*
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15:02.32thing0hey all
15:02.41thing0how is everyone?
15:06.41tarzeaufine thanks
15:10.08thing0that's good
15:21.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: proper for-scope in MSVC 6.0
15:26.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: evaluate HAVE_DRAND48 before calling drand48
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17:31.29poolioShould I have a looksy?
17:49.29tarzeauare there plans to make a cocoa interface (for mac os x, and maybe gnustep) of brlcad?
17:57.32brlcadtarzeau: you mean a non-X11 interface or do you really mean a *cocoa* api interface
17:58.21brlcadyeah, for non-x11, aquatk is the way to go and my tests here seem to indicate that it might actually (finally) be stable enough
17:58.53brlcadbut i've still not been able to get all of mged up in aquatk without some x11 sneaking in (and crashing mged)
17:59.34brlcadthat is still, howver, the "next step" for mged on mac os x
17:59.34tarzeaubrlcad: yeah i really mean cocoa, NS* interface
17:59.39tarzeaubrlcad: because that'd look so much nicer (on mac os x, and gnustep at least :)
17:59.53tarzeaui know it's wanted a lot, but maybe there's a plan, or someone doing it. who knows?
17:59.59brlcadhm, several folks toyed with the idea and even wrote some initial mock interfaces in cocoa
18:00.31brlcadtarzeau: you do realize that aquatk uses the same look and feel, that's not x11
18:00.33poolioHow bout a _good looking_ x11 interface first ;)
18:00.43``Erikmake tk look good
18:00.46tarzeaupoolio: gnustep works on x11!
18:00.50``Erikthen BRL-CAD will look good :D
18:01.15tarzeaupoolio: http://io.debian.net/~tar/screenshots/emacs.app.png
18:01.54``Erikgnustep is such a pain, though, requiring a modified objC compiler and everything :/
18:01.58pooliotarzeau: yes, is there a point to showing me that?
18:02.10pooliojust install osx86
18:04.41brlcadayam uses aquatk iirc: http://ayam.sourceforge.net/ayam-macosx-aqua2.png
18:07.39jack-heh
18:08.14jack-i'll feed you some x11 screenshots, but no aqua stuff in my brlcad package for now ;)
18:08.25jack-leaving out adrt even saves me from sdl
18:08.31jack-so it's purely x11
18:10.32jack-tarzeau: if you run x11 rootless and use a wm like "OroborX"
18:10.44jack-you have pretty much a real aqua interface at least
18:10.54tarzeauok ok
18:11.10tarzeaui like detachable menus
18:11.25tarzeauit's the feel i like about NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP and their free software gnustep clone
18:11.40jack-yeah
18:11.57jack-afterstep was the first wm i really liked when i started
18:12.09jack-just because of that slight nextstep feel
18:13.57pooliough I hate afterstep, and windowmaker.
18:14.40jack-i wouldnt want to use it anymore, but back then i had fun with it :)
18:15.16tarzeauany of you worked with the original of the company NeXT?
18:15.23jack-yup
18:15.30jack-the so called cubes
18:15.35tarzeauyeah :)
18:15.39jack-company of a friend had 3 of them
18:15.40tarzeaujack-: me too: http://gnu.ethz.ch/www.levenez.com/
18:15.58tarzeaui miss the quality, speed and intuitivness
18:16.14tarzeauopenoffice and mozilla (firefox) are just huge monsters
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18:38.38brlcadtarzeau: mged actually has all the hooks in it for detachables menus too with tk
18:38.43brlcadit's just turned off :)
18:38.48tarzeau:)
18:39.13brlcadhad it on for a couple releases, but bob had some motivation for turning it off eventually
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19:02.18tarzeauhehe ok
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20:19.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Implement getLeaves and depth support on SurfaceTree for trim preprocessing
20:21.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Finish implementation of preprocess_trims, start implementation on trim support methods (count_intersections), since openNURBS leaves the curve intersection routines unimplemented
20:22.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: Add delegate implementations of depth and getLeaves for SurfaceTree
20:30.48*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177871953.dsl.bell.ca)
20:33.27RodGallowGlasshttp://www.pastebin.ca/545645 <---- needs <assert.h>
20:40.57``Erikthanks :)
20:41.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: missing required header (assert.h)
20:50.28RodGallowGlass:)
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20:50.58RodGallowGlassshall i do a cvs update :P
20:51.40``Erikif you want... that last commit was the assert.h fix... it built through on my fbsd box *shrug* :)
20:51.58``Erikand I grepped the dir for other uses of assert() without assert.h
20:52.20RodGallowGlassgood job, faled to do that herfe, but then i rely on my compiler.
20:52.25RodGallowGlassfailed too
20:53.58``Erikcan't always trust the compiler to be as mean as it should be *shrug* :)
20:54.02RodGallowGlassheh not all gcc's are created equeally
20:54.20RodGallowGlass--mean-mode, i wonder...
20:55.01``Erik../../configure --enable-beat-me-whip-me-make-it-hurt=yes
20:55.04``Erik*cough* O:-)
20:55.09RodGallowGlass:)
20:56.29``Erikunfortunately, the cc test autoconf uses fails if you have CFLAGS="-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic" :/
20:58.44*** part/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@87.249.56.198)
21:14.44RodGallowGlassif that ones female, you can offer "service" (running away really really fast) :)
21:16.33RodGallowGlassso use -Wl,beat-me-with-reporting-every-possible-condition
21:16.43RodGallowGlass:)
21:16.59RodGallowGlassgotta go mow the lawn.
21:18.14``Eriklater
21:37.43yukonbobcan anybody give me some direction to finding out what "cut direction" means in the dsp primitive?
21:39.28brlcadif you see "cadguy" join, he can tell you ALL about cut directions and all the nitty gritty details of the dsp
21:39.46brlcad(he implemented it)
21:40.00yukonbobsounds good ;)
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21:40.45yukonbobI'm _not_ being impatiant, but have you patched that looping-malloc issue with DSPs?
21:40.57yukonbob*impatient
22:49.26brlcadyukonbob: no, not yet :(
22:52.01brlcadtotally distracted yesterday and today with a task
22:53.00brlcadthe "cut" parameter for dsps is basically telling the ray-tracer what to do between the different cell values
22:53.29brlcadthe default is "ad" for adaptive, which means it'll make a smooth surface, interpolating between the values
22:55.01brlcadone of the others is no interpolation, so you see a lot of flat surfaces for each cell
22:55.06brlcadand I forget what the third one does
22:55.13brlcadso it wasn't that important ;)
23:09.14*** join/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150)
23:10.19producemenchdoes anyone mind helping a newbie configure brl-cad?
23:11.00producemenchI was on yesterday, but I didn't know irc very well. sorry if I annoyed anyone.
23:11.10brlcad./configure --enable-optimized --disable-adrt --disable-jove --prefix=/usr/brlcad && make && sudo make install ;)
23:11.37producemenchthanks a bazillion :))))
23:11.40producemenchciao
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070607

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070607

01:10.44*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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02:16.00*** join/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150)
02:18.01producemenchI ran "./configure --enable-optimized --disable-adrt --disable-jove --prefix=/usr/brlcad && make && sudo make install" and the process ran for like an hour. I just started over. Should it take that long?
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02:27.26producemenchThe newbie's back with another question ;)
02:27.34producemenchanybody game?
02:29.14producemenchalrighty then. I'll bug another room. ciao all.
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03:20.25brlcadmust be a slow computer
03:24.56RodGallowGlasscomputers all wait at the same speed :)
03:25.15RodGallowGlass18.2 times per second :)
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12:20.08thing0hey all
12:31.35akrealhello thing0
12:32.14thing0hey akreal
12:32.21thing0have you got a 47?
12:32.41akrealwhat? )
12:34.24thing0akreal
12:34.26thing0ak47
12:34.28thing0sorry
12:34.33thing0bit of a joke
12:34.37akrealhah ))
12:34.42thing0not funny
12:35.01thing0yeah....
12:35.08thing0brain fried
12:35.15akrealwhen i'm in local network i call myself just ak so everybody joke about ak47 ))
12:36.32thing0ahh ok
12:36.40thing0I was also thingk
12:38.20thing0ahh well
12:38.27thing0so what's up akreal
12:38.33thing0doing anything interesting
12:38.37thing0BRLCAD related maybe?
12:40.47akrealno,not yet... just a perl coder...
12:41.18akrealbut i'm a CAD student and hope to join to BRLCAD development )
12:42.02akrealnow i'm fighting with building and running BRLCAD..
12:43.54thing0ahh ok
12:43.57thing0your a CAD student?
12:44.00thing0in what way?
12:45.44thing0are you studying CAD?
12:46.13thing0like Autodesk Inventor or Solidworks, CATIA, NX, Solidedge, Pro/Engineer, AutoCAD ?
12:47.10akrealyes, i study CAD development at univercity, and we exploring such CADs as SolidEdge, NX, AutoCAD..
12:47.42akrealdid you hear about COMPAS ?
12:48.03akrealit's very popular in russia
12:49.01thing0no
12:49.05thing0I haven't
12:49.06thing0hmm
12:49.42thing0is that the correct spelling?
12:49.51thing0can you give me a link?
12:50.33akreala second.. i'll try to find smth english )
12:51.16akrealhttp://www.ascon.ru/english/
12:51.27akrealand yes correct spelling is KOMPAS
12:51.38thing0ah ok
12:55.08thing0ahh ok
12:55.13thing0you know pro engineer
12:55.17thing0started by a russian
12:55.18thing0?
12:55.21thing0:)
12:55.26thing0russian's thought he was nuts
12:58.09akreali heared about it but never used... and never heared that it was started by russian..
12:58.25akrealwhen did it start?
12:58.29thing0so he went to USA80s
12:58.32thing0sorry
12:58.33thing080s
12:58.41thing0if i recall correctly
13:00.07akrealinteresting story :)
13:00.09thing0just google it
13:00.12thing0umm
13:00.18thing0i think catalyst wrote about it
13:00.23thing0or just wiki
13:13.34thing0KOMPAS-3D looks cool
13:14.37LaniakeaKOMPAS looks like a commercial solution
13:14.59LaniakeaThe fact that it's commercial seems a bit inept in comparison to what BRL-CAD can do for free.
13:16.04thing0Laniakea: I was basing it off other commerical CAD
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13:24.26akreali have the book by guy who wrote "math core" of KOMPAS, so maybe it's possible to implement some things in BRL-CAD...
13:36.32thing0cool
13:36.33thing0bbs
13:36.38thing0broadband is back
13:36.42thing0gotta switch over
13:36.43thing0ttyl
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15:55.49thing0hey
15:55.52thing0i'm back
15:56.38``Erikdarn
15:56.41``ErikI mean
15:56.41``Erikhi
15:56.59thing0nice erick
15:57.03thing0real smooth
15:57.13thing0just got slightly jipped
15:57.24thing0ordered a router/modem
15:57.28thing0just got a modem....
15:57.31thing0I mean
15:57.36thing0just a router
15:57.42thing0so I have no dsl modem
15:57.45thing0I was PISSED
15:57.56thing0hehe
15:58.03thing0no back to backup dial up
15:59.12thing0*knlow
15:59.16thing0*know
15:59.16``Erik<-- went the wawy of cable as soon as it became available O.o *shrug*
16:00.46``Erikum
16:00.52``Erik"now" maybe? :)
16:00.56thing0LOL
16:00.58thing0yeah
16:01.00thing0u can see
16:01.04thing0how annoyed I am
16:01.05thing0hehe
16:01.12``ErikI would've said "special"
16:01.13``ErikO:-)
16:01.45``Erikwith half my day blown on mandatory training, it seems like a waste to do any real work :/
16:02.54thing0nice
16:02.56thing0well
16:03.01thing0I attended a meeting today
16:03.03thing0and found out
16:03.12thing0half the assumptions that were made
16:03.19thing0were for a different segment
16:03.25thing0so I am back to square one
16:03.27thing0with a week left
16:03.35thing0I am PISSED
16:03.36thing0i mean
16:03.39thing0I feel special
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16:12.23thing0alrighty
16:12.27thing0i am sleeping now
16:12.28thing0ttyl
16:12.38thing0cya ``Erik
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18:45.20brlcadl/sb goto -50
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19:32.41RodGallowGlass``Erik? all that wall-candy I have up, nuke it you think?
19:42.15RodGallowGlassyour choice, let me know ok?
19:43.14``Erikhuh?
19:43.40RodGallowGlassworried about what kind of flies stick to that flypaper :)
19:43.55``Eriko.O
19:45.25RodGallowGlassgood ;)
19:45.25``Erikum, ok
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070608

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070608

03:07.35RodGallowGlasswhipped by the "code o nine tails" geeeeez :)
03:27.29RodGallowGlassDoes code have a code of conduct :)
03:27.44RodGallowGlassrambling again, time for my medication :)
03:49.27RodGallowGlass:)
05:30.41poolioevening :)
05:34.43brlcadhowdy howdy
05:42.56pooliohey brlcad, out of curiousity, what's the point in doing voxel -> CSG? Just to work with the data and store it more efficiently?
05:43.29brlcadthat's one of the major points
05:43.45poolioso somewhat a means of data compression?
05:43.47brlcadto actually have a model with structure instead of entirely unstructured data
05:44.04brlcadwith regional coherence
05:44.24brlcadconnectivity of "cells" to shapes
05:44.42brlcadbasically it's a method of shape extraction, which has all sorts of uses
05:44.51poolioyeah, but I couldn't think of any good uses besides that. I only bring this up because the question was posed to me :)
05:45.11brlcaddata compression is just one of the benefit, but not necessarily a primary purpose in itself (though a very major benefit in most cases)
05:46.40brlcadthink of medical data, for example -- I might have a CT scan, which is intrinsicly viewable as voxel data -- there's no knowledge about regions and materials other than bands of intensity values
05:47.12poolioWell yes, but lets say you have "regions" would that just help in terms of extracting and individually looking at different regions?
05:47.32brlcadif you can extract structure, you've basically done shape detection, potentially even feature detection, which is one step towards solving segmentation and registration
05:47.43brlcadbeing able to identify a "heart" for example
05:48.21poolioAlright, so once you have the basic shapes it's much easier to further analyze
05:48.45poolioand why would the military want this type of ability?
05:48.47brlcadmuch easier -- and in practice, you don't want to work on the voxelized data directly for several reasons
05:49.16brlcadyou can get analytic artifacts from the 3d aliasing, the nature of the cell shape
05:49.35brlcadso actually inferring a real "surface" can help
05:49.48pooliookay, that makes a bit of sense
05:49.53brlcadbasically interpolates and fits an implicit function to explicit data values
05:50.34poolioso theoretically the CSG model good more accurately reflect the physical situation than the voxel data that the CSG was generate from
05:51.04brlcadit's more of a fundamental capability than it is a "military purpose", especially at this point -- there's not much purpose other than the geometric points I just mentioned
05:51.37brlcadonce it's working and if validated, then you can start looking at other analytic purposes, whether they be military-related, medical, consumer, etc
05:51.58brlcadthe predominant domain of voxel data is actually the medical industry
05:52.21poolioYeah, I don't know anything off the top of my head besides MRIs that generate that type of data
05:53.01brlcadthem and a subset of finite element analyses (which cuts across various industries)
05:53.01brlcadMRI and CT scans are the big ones
05:53.01poolioyeah cool
05:53.19brlcadstill, though -- that's "way" off in the distance
05:53.35brlcadjust matching a voxelized sphere to a sphere is research material in itself :)
05:53.38pooliowell yes, I was just curious. I like to see the big picture :)
05:53.54brlcad(publishable research material)
05:54.16poolioso would you like me to try to have this project proposal for you before I start work?
05:56.25brlcadwell certainly before coding
05:56.35brlcadso yeah :)
05:58.02brlcadnothing too insanely detailed.. whatever you're comfortable with
05:59.07poolioYeah, I had some thoughts on mutation as I was riding the subway to work today :P
05:59.07brlcadyour fellow occupants were that ugly, eh?
06:00.40pooliohar har. no one talks on the subway and i was, as always, seeing shapes with my eyes 8)
06:04.50poolioAnywho, I was trying to decide what I wanted to have crossover...whole shapes, operators, position vectors of shapes, coordinates of position vectors of shapes, etc...
06:11.32brlcadif you think of a CSG hierarchy (which is usually a directed graph) .. crossover is rather easily defined as picking a node in both trees and swapping them
06:12.52pooliowell is the node a shape?
06:12.55brlcadso something like: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Csg_tree.png/677px-Csg_tree.png
06:13.15brlcadpick one of the nodes.. pick another in the other genotype -- swap them
06:14.38brlcadmore of a data-driven diagram -- the nodes are either operators or primitives, http://designer.mech.yzu.edu.tw/article/articles/course/(2000-11-27)%20Constructive%20solid%20geometry.files/image073.gif
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06:15.35brlcadand you can have a matrix over any node that represents a transformation (translation, scaling, rotation, orientation, position, etc)
06:16.37brlcadrandom mutation could be as simple as randomly picking an operator node, and randomly changing the operator (e.g. from union to intersection)
06:28.57poolioyeah. but eg the first diagram, you can only pick leaf nodes or operators, you couldn't say pick a shape that's a union of two other shapes and swap that
06:29.17poolioWell you could, but it'd change the genotype length
06:29.37pooliobut then you get into crossing over of complex shapes, which I'm not so sure is a good idea
07:01.01brlcadthere's nothing wrong with changing the genotype length
07:01.17brlcadthey're going to be various lengths regardless (or at least they can be)
07:01.27brlcads/can/should/
07:02.08brlcadthat's what I'd mentioned the first stage would be simply single-node hierarchies -- primitives only
07:02.28brlcadif you get even that working, it'll be astounding
07:04.22brlcadI suppose you could always work with balanced graphs such that you're always swapping the same number of nodes in order to maintain fixed lengths, but that's actually just more work for what I don't see as gaining you much of anything but an artificial constraint on the genotype evolution
07:05.10brlcadyour fitness function and evolutionary passes can have criteria to bound how complex the shapes get, how many nodes, too
07:09.40poolioAlright. My main issue is I don't really see how crossing higher-level shapes will improve the evolution. I mean, I see how it could, but I feel like it should be able to evolve thos ehigher level shapes on its own
07:12.22poolioanywho, i'm of for the night. i have to be at work in 4 hours. eek. gnite
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07:40.42brlcadhm, not sure what you mean by "higher level shapes" .. they're just shapes at any point in the tree -- portions of the tree could do exceptionally well or poorly, which will sort itself out through the evolution steps
07:41.29brlcadsuch that over time trees have more and more "good" nodes that fit the function and fewer that don't
07:43.09brlcadbasically saying "take some of the objects I used over here and try them over here" .. if it's got a good fitness, it'll survive -- if not, it'll die
07:43.22pooliowell yeah...
07:43.37poolioby higher level shapes I mean higher up in the hierarchy, composed of more primitives
07:44.32pooliowel anywho. sleep. cya later
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10:34.35thing0hey all
10:34.36thing0sup?
11:23.45thing0cya later people
11:23.48thing0going out
11:23.50thing0bye!
11:24.13*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-209-203.dyn.iinet.net.au)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070609

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070609

04:05.12*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
04:05.12*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
04:30.54*** join/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150)
04:33.32producemenchHello Again, I finally got it running. example: "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin" goes into a hidden file, in the user's home directory, called "bashrc". Thanks again for all your help. :)
04:33.51producemenchbye
04:33.55*** part/#brlcad producemench (n=ed@74.211.83.150)
04:43.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/552201   <---- this is the kind of stuff that gives me heartburn, is there no tcl standard you can use?
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12:41.10Laniakeatarzeau: hi
12:41.54tarzeauhi Laniakea
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14:52.26``Erikheh
14:53.02``Erik"have 8.5a6, need 8.4-8.5"... that's funny... I'm under the impression that 8.5+ is mandatory, and whatever does that check is a bit stupid in matching :)
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18:46.06IriX64``Erik, sorry should have told you thats an 7.8.4 run :)
18:46.29IriX64I installed tcl8.5a6 when 7.10 came out
18:49.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/553465
18:49.29IriX64thats what Im currently fighting with 7.10
18:50.15IriX64who the heck wrote bomb.c :)
18:52.02IriX64lgt/error.c duplicates it somehow
18:52.42IriX64mc
18:53.48*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-230-231.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:55.50IriX64I'm outta my league here ``Erik, which one do i change?
18:59.20IriX64if i change the one in lgt, how much do i break?
18:59.28IriX64lets try it what hey.
19:00.57IriX64heh nothing broke so far :)
19:02.03IriX64you have adventureous people working on this iss ;)
19:02.10IriX64i see too
19:10.15IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/553508
19:10.25IriX64think i'll just stop for now.
19:11.40IriX64mc
19:13.35IriX64somethings wrong on my end me thinks, thanks guys
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23:03.54*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-092-052.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:08.27IriX64ahh well, thanks to you guys for something to pass the time with :)
23:10.35IriX64still haven't found where that cute little tcl check lives ``Erik ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070610

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070610

00:56.59IriX64did anybody try irssi.zip from hobbes?
00:59.04IriX64I'm torn between this and Mirc.
01:00.13IriX64what i really miss about mirc is the ability to double click on a url and be there instantly, no cutting or pasting.
02:19.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/554246  <---  finally installation time
02:22.51IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/554250  <---- love it when a plan comes together ollie, I know stan
02:25.36IriX64well lets see what trouble I can stir up in brlcad land :)
02:31.25IriX64people ask me, why don't you let the gcc people know about this? answer, they laugh at cygwin.
02:45.44IriX64l8r
03:10.46*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726099.dsl.bell.ca)
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13:04.20*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-166-227-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)
13:04.39thing1hey all
13:04.41thing1sup?
13:04.43thing1LOL
13:04.57thing0somehow my name incremented
13:05.00thing0WTF ;)
13:38.16*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.174.211)
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18:05.11``Erikthing++
18:05.16``Erikor
18:05.18``Erik++thing?
18:07.44IriX64bwahh, 7.8.8 is installing
18:10.52IriX64lets see if it passes the "required version" of tcl this time, it should i used its own :)
18:18.02IriX64just where is this required version of tcl anyway, I didn't look very hard.
18:18.11IriX64check i mean
18:30.10IriX64what would be a quick and dirty test of bash support that i can try in the brlcad dir?
18:30.39IriX64would exec bash.exe work?
18:32.54IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/556691 <--- heheh it did
18:43.56IriX64whatever you do don't do an exec bash :(
19:08.37IriX64shouldn't have started a photon map with a compile going
19:11.52IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/556785 <--- where i am into it
19:12.58IriX64why does it put it at the bottom of the paste window?
19:56.25IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   pix 1 & 2
20:12.38IriX64same url, overlap tool and object editor
23:09.39*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070611

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070611

03:27.27*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
03:37.37*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
05:42.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c:
05:42.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: remove the disable the call to Tcl_DeleteInterp for release since there seems to
05:42.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: be some reference counting issues in a6, remvoe the bu_semaphore_release call
05:42.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: too as release pairs with acquire, not with init (there is presently no free
05:42.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: routine that pairs with init)
07:08.10*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:22.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: all the docs should now be in the docs section, pix-png output was fixed to check for console output
07:38.02*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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15:05.34*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-218-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)
15:05.45thing0hey there
15:06.59akrealhello thing0!
15:07.08thing0hey akreal
15:07.10thing0sup?
15:07.21akrealwhat does it mean?
15:07.35akrealsorry i'm kinda newbie :)
15:09.45thing0lol
15:09.53thing0sup = what is up = how are you
15:09.54thing0:P
15:11.46akrealah! nice, thx ) finally ran mged... looking for what to do next
15:12.01akrealand u?
15:12.11thing0just fried from work
15:12.17thing0got a review on wednesday
15:12.25thing0tomorrow is going to be a nightmare
15:30.50*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487763E.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:31.07thing0me sleep now
15:31.08thing0bye!
15:31.10*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-218-155.dyn.iinet.net.au)
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16:16.40*** part/#brlcad Obscene_CNN (n=DiscoBan@owt-64-146-239-67.owt.com)
16:20.06*** join/#brlcad Chocobo (n=swinchen@strongbad.eece.maine.edu)
16:20.56*** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.227.92.205)
16:21.04ertugeratasalut
16:21.12ChocoboI dont know where else to ask this:  Does anyone know of a CAAD program for linux?   brl-cad seems awesome, but not really aimed towards floor-plans and architecture.  
16:21.16ChocoboHi :)
16:22.41ertugerataı need just deps for brlcad
16:22.46ertugeratai need just deps for brlcad
16:25.47ertugeratahttp://brlcad.org/overview.html,i compile on source
16:44.41brlcadertugerata: see the INSTALL file in the source distribution
16:45.15ertugeratathanks ; url for deps not found
16:45.18brlcadthere are no required dependencies other than a compiler and probably a command shell that brl-cad does not directly provide or auto-detect
16:45.28brlcadwhat url for deps?
16:45.43brlcadthere is no url for deps, read the INSTALL file :)
16:46.08brlcadthough I suppose I could give you a url to the INSTALL file, if that much isn't clear ;)
16:46.09ertugeratalibbu,libdm, needed ?
16:46.17brlcadthose are brl-cad libraries
16:46.47brlcadwhat are you trying to do?
16:47.26brlcadChocobo: alas, brl-cad and qcad are about as close as it gets in terms of open-source software for caad
16:47.50brlcadwhich of course isn't saying much :)  .. patches and developers to work those areas are, of course, more than welcome
16:48.34brlcadbrl-cad has more of the foundations for caad that just about everything else out there, just sans gui
16:48.39jack-yup
16:48.48jack-its a pretty complete system :)
16:48.55jack-and 100% open source
16:48.55brlcadmind you, i'm specifically referring to open source -- if you want commercial, there are some options but those aren't my concern ;)
16:56.46*** join/#brlcad obsoleteman (n=obso@unaffiliated/obsoleteman)
16:57.00obsoletemanhi all
16:57.48brlcadhowdy
16:59.32obsoletemananyone knows, it needs BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries when i build brlcad from source?
17:01.37Chocobothanks brlcad, maybe I will give it a shot :)
17:02.02brlcadobsoleteman: you mean run-time debugging?
17:02.28ChocoboYeah, most of the non open source applications seem to be german....  I can't even read their websites :)
17:02.29obsoletemanbrlcad: no "i mean Are BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries  needed only  to run programme, not build time dependency?"
17:03.56brlcadobsoleteman: I guess that depends on what do you mean by "BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries"?  BRL-CAD includes about a dozen libraries that will be compiled and installed and by default, those libraries will need to be installed for the apps to work just like anything else
17:04.55brlcadif you disable shared library builds, then everything will link static and there should be no runtime dependencies, but then you're compilation and install are going to be truely *massive* in terms of disk usage
17:07.00brlcadChocobo: fantastisch :)
17:07.06obsoletemanbrlcad: ok. understand that. i mean BRL-CAD Runtime Libraries in sourceforge home page. but they seem for only win32. no problem. thanks
17:07.08obsoleteman:)
17:07.22brlcadooooh, THOSE run-time libraries
17:07.47brlcadyeah, ignore those even if you're on windows unless you're developing brl-cad applications ;)
17:07.49obsoleteman:)
17:07.59Chocobomaybe I will just use graph paper.
17:08.24brlcadthat's basically just a library-only release (which so far has only been done for windows) .. as there are many developer-users of brl-cad that use our libraries but not our tools
17:08.33brlcadfolks using brl-cad as a ray-tracing engine or a geometry engine
17:10.02obsoletemanbrlcad: thanks again for information and good application. we are going to package brlcad for Pardus then :)
17:11.17obsoletemanbrlcad: our packager ertugerata in this chanell
17:12.23obsoletemanmay be we will speak abot packaging soon
17:19.06*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726794.dsl.bell.ca)
17:19.39IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/559130 <--- left it compiling last night, woke up to this, last update from cvs around 11:00pm eastern
17:20.27IriX64updating again, hoping its fixed :)
17:21.41IriX64thought i took that random number generator outts the compiler ;)
17:21.49IriX64outta too
17:23.45IriX64i'm told to report the symptom, it doesn't compile man.
17:24.14*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
17:31.23IriX64man theres no reference to those inflate functions it's calling not even an extern definition.
17:32.44IriX64same for deflate
17:33.27IriX64not gonna fight with it (I am a man of peace :)) going back to 7.8.8 for now.
17:33.49*** part/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.227.92.205)
17:43.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/benchmark.1: improve documentation, include the OPTIONS and command in the synopsis as well as a whole new section with some examples. initial revision was in 1988.
17:45.28brlcadIriX64: you're missing -lz from your link line for some reason
17:45.41brlcadit needs libz aka zlib
17:45.56IriX64its supposed to be building zlib no?
17:46.06brlcaddepends entirely on what you tell it to do
17:46.15IriX64enable everythibg
17:46.18IriX64thing
17:46.40IriX64let me reconfigure.
17:47.57IriX64thankyou
17:50.05IriX64you know your code well.
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19:12.56*** join/#brlcad obsoleteman (n=obso@unaffiliated/obsoleteman)
19:15.40obsoletemanbrlcad:  hi again, brlcad compiles succesfully bur tehere is no *.desktop file for menu entry. how we start the application using commandline? which command ?
19:26.55brlcadobsoleteman: if you'd be willing to create/provide a .desktop file, I'd be glad to add it
19:27.11brlcadotherwise, there are many possible starting points -- brl-cad is a suite of tools
19:27.37brlcadmged is where many folks start, which has a fair set of documentation on the website at http://brlcad.org
19:29.34obsoletemanbrlcad: why not, we ll provide some *.dektop file. (for mged maybe more)
19:34.14brlcadmged, archer, and rtwizard are probably the only three double-clickable apps of interest until there's a brl-cad command shell
19:34.33*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt247-240.northwestel.net)
19:35.14obsoletemanok brlcad we re preparing mged, archer, and rtwizard desktop files.
19:36.33brlcadawesome
19:39.04yukonbobafternoon folks
19:47.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
19:47.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: jason feels it's probably best to make mods to openNURBS itself now in order to
19:47.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: fully integrate/complete the brep implementation and given his implementation
19:47.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: uses libbu and libbn extensively, this move will make openNURBS similarly
19:47.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: dependent. thus, the intent is to then to effectively fork openNURBS and make
19:47.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: it a noinst brl-cad sub-library (either in librt or up a level) for obtaining
19:47.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: brep support.
20:03.59*** part/#brlcad obsoleteman (n=obso@unaffiliated/obsoleteman)
20:57.34*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:21.45cadguyYowza.  That's a serious decision
21:34.16*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487763E.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:36.51yukonbobcadguy: hey -- I was chatting w/ brlcad about dsp and "cut direction"... he said you coded it and could explain what that's about?
21:37.10yukonbobad vs lR vs Lr
22:53.13yukonbobhrm
22:59.00brlcadheh
22:59.22brlcadhe looks at irc about once a day at best (if even that) .. just have to happen to catch him
22:59.26yukonbob:) how's it going brlcad?
22:59.58brlcadpretty good, how're things over in the yukon?  :)
23:00.28yukonbobnot so bad... had a good w/e (http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/)
23:02.12*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:16.15yukonbobbrlcad: ?did you see my note re: that malloc issue
23:34.58``Erikwhichwhathuhnowwhat?
23:36.23IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/559961
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070612

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070612

00:17.03IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   1st pix, results of that photon map
00:18.21IriX64thats with importance mapping,use irradiance hypersampling cache, and visualize irradiance cache selected
00:19.50IriX64Where do I put the light Twingy :)
00:21.48Twingyinside a box
00:22.11IriX64have to wire up a switch...just a sec
00:22.15TwingyI've already told you this on 3 separate occaisons over the last 6 months
00:22.32Twingyso I am going to ignore you if you ask me again
00:22.54IriX64I do not know how to set matrials to light source, I am *not a brlcad user
00:22.59IriX64materials too
00:23.06IriX64:)
00:23.19IriX64i don't mind being ignored :)
00:24.32IriX64you notice, I'm always working with *your example geometry?, Heck I even screwed up the mug exercise
00:26.03TwingyI don't get it
00:26.11Twingyyou spend all this time in here talking and compiling the program
00:26.25Twingyand you complain about all these things, and you don't even know the most fundamental thing about how to use the program
00:26.31Twingyif I were the channel moderator here I'd ban you
00:27.02IriX64i rarely complain
00:27.02Twingyyou are lucky sean is a nice guy
00:27.11Twingymy tolerance is much less than his
00:27.57IriX64on that note i'll delve into the innards of 7-10 again :)
00:28.23*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
00:33.05yukonbobcadguy: hey -- I was chatting w/ brlcad about dsp and "cut direction"... he said you coded it and could explain what that's about?
00:33.15yukonbobie: ad vs. lR vs. Lr
00:44.39cadguyYes.  You can choose to always cut each cell top from ll to UR or UL to lr or in the direction of most curvature
00:45.19cadguyad says cut along direction of greatest curvature.  This makes things like hilltops look more natural, rather than having saw-toothed tops
00:46.03cadguySo, lR is lower left to Upper Right, Lr is Upper Left to lower right, and ad is "adaptive"
00:47.49yukonbobcadguy: OK... I'm not clear on what "cut" means, though.
00:51.07cadguyAh.  In a dsp each "cell" has 4 corners on top.  If the 4 points aren't all co-planar, you have to "cut" it into two triangles
00:51.50cadguyConsider the following DSP data as a 2x2 DSP grid:  1 1 1 2
00:52.11cadguyThe "2" elevation is not co-planar with the other points
00:52.25cadguyNo plane includes all 4 points
00:52.36cadguySo you have to "facetize" the top of the DSP cell
00:52.56cadguyThe code does this for you by "cutting the top"
00:54.43cadguyIf you picked lR for the above example, it would cut from a 1 to a 1
00:54.56cadguyIf you picked Lr it would cut from a 1 to a 2
00:55.43cadguyIf the grid were larger, selecting "ad" would cause the code to cut in the direction that preserved curvature.  We used to have an example laying around.
00:59.41yukonbobI'm not 100% clear what you're saying, but perhaps playing will help me figure it out... If I generate my own 10x10 say, will I be able to see the effects by playing with 1s and 2s?
01:00.01yukonbobie: 1-unit and 2-unit elevations.
01:00.45cadguyyes.  You should be able to see it.
01:01.01cadguyI'll see if I can come up with a good example
01:04.49IriX64err Twingy, if you guys would rather that dedication to Mr. Muss weren't there I'll honor your wishes.
01:05.19Twingydon't ask me!
01:05.34IriX64you too have a vote :)
01:05.42TwingyI rescind my vote!
01:06.04IriX64leaves the rest of the jury in this Kangaroo court then :)
01:07.23IriX64What I'm gently trying to say is would his family mind do you think?
01:07.57Twingyyou are talking to the wrong guy
01:08.05cadguyWhere will the dedication go?
01:08.15cadguyI know them well
01:08.53IriX64It's on the help button, dedication
01:09.18cadguyno offense would be taken
01:09.21IriX64its part of what i sent for examination
01:12.11IriX64windowsside albumn, bldg391 photonmapped
01:12.37IriX64thankyou cadguy
01:12.54cadguyok.
01:26.25IriX64my only gripe with these other x-servers for windows is that you have to open a frame buffer to ray trace or photonmap into.
01:28.03IriX64if they'd open the port O_SHARE | O_DENY_NONE | O_READ | O_WRITE  i'm sure that probelm would go away.
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01:40.17IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   Havoc
01:40.36IriX64ill shut up now and go back to work :)
01:43.18IriX64you wonder why I play with 7.8.8? Get it working there and transplant it to 7.10 when i get my build issues resolved.
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02:14.05brlcadyukonbob: yes I saw it an alas i've still not had time to dig deep just yet, hopefully after tomorrow afternoon :/
02:35.41IriX64you hardcoded the darn usr/brlcad prefix into tcl/tk????????
02:44.09IriX64go figure i reran it and its proper.
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03:16.55yukonbobbrlcad: np -- I'm interested in a fix, but I don't know your workload... Looking forward to it when you get the time to attack :)
06:16.58yukonbob.
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09:38.32ertugeratahi
09:39.29ertugeratamy  problem with archer and rtwizard
09:42.37ertugeratahttp://rafb.net/p/qujjRC23.html
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17:04.11IriX64somebody fed my gremlin after midnight :)
17:25.25IriX64dunno if you want this but i noticed same thing in 7.10 too   http://www.pastebin.ca/562002
17:34.48IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/562022 <--- this one too
17:35.11IriX64ill stop now because you said warnings were no concern
17:42.21IriX64the problems, in tk, i compiled against a system tk8.5a6 with brlcad-7.8.4 bwish blows up!
17:51.52IriX64probably tied to tk_mainloop not being found in ac_checklib tk...
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18:46.54IriX64point proven, it's making fine with the included tcl/tk 8.4
18:50.17IriX64well i've got brlcad built, I can safely wipe out Cygwin now :P
18:55.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (8 files): Add implemention of and support for NumIntersectionsWith(ON_Line)... all in support for trimming curve tests
18:57.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Change brep_pt_trimmed to use NumIntersectionsWith() method in openNURBS. will make the unfinished brep_count_intersections() function obsolete...
18:59.19IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/562263  <---if you need proof it builds with tcl8.4.
19:01.37IriX64btw this configure too does not see Tk_MainLoop in tk8.5a5 or tk8.5a5
19:01.47IriX64err a6
19:07.24IriX64you wonder how then did i get it to compile against tk8.5? I simply put the libs in and set the path to libtk, it found it.
19:07.57IriX64not trying to snow you here simply trying to help.
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19:21.54IriX64slowest startup of mged i've ever seen :)
19:25.13IriX64renamed the cygwin directory to cassie and this thing is running truly standalone``Erik.
19:25.27IriX64broke cygwinx tho :)
19:26.39IriX64using Xwin32 in demo mode dunno if it'll have time to photonmap
19:32.34IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos windowsside albumn what it did out of the box.
19:35.13IriX64same url and albumn, photonmap outta the box
19:36.14IriX64maybe i better buy this xwin32, it's pretty decent
19:39.54IriX64gotta go i've got to prune the design shots outta the blogs:)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070613

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13:02.01thing0hey all
13:02.09thing0leaving in a week! woo
13:06.40brlcadhowdy thing0
13:06.51thing0hey brlcad
13:06.57thing0going to site in a week
13:06.59thing0yay!
13:07.05thing0get to leave the office for a while
13:07.11brlcad"to site"?
13:07.20thing0yeah
13:07.28thing0an Acid Plant down south
13:07.34thing0for Nickel refinery
13:11.31thing0yeah
13:11.38thing0it'll be fun
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14:09.20thing0sorry about my quick departer
14:09.32thing0laptop almost out of battery
14:09.36thing0went into hibernate
14:09.37thing0;)
14:44.47thing0alrighty
14:44.49thing0going now
14:44.50thing0sleep time
14:44.52thing0bye!
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19:18.23IriX64wooohooo 16 hours to compile, thats what I get for walking away from i last night
19:18.30IriX64it too
19:20.35pooliois there a "voxel" data spec?
19:57.27IriX64what am I doing wrong here the geometry window didn't come up.    http://www.pastebin.ca/564925
20:02.21IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad   rtedge-7.10.1 for the first time :)
20:04.52IriX64rot 60 45 45
20:05.31IriX64thats too beautiful
20:07.28IriX64it's on the blog now :)
20:08.30IriX64i'll shutup and be happy now.
20:09.35IriX64in all seriousness tho, I renamed Cygwin dir to cassie and brought up xming, and thats how im running at the moment.
20:13.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: Flesh out Bezier intersection counting... not done with case c yet
20:19.51IriX64a ray trace shot if you want to see it, same place
20:24.04IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/564984 Im just having fun now
20:35.23IriX64the help tcl script runs if tclscripts is in the path
20:37.13IriX64xpush as opposed to a ypush:)
20:38.36IriX64this means i can take it on faith now instead of renaming the cygwin directory every time, besides i prefer cygwinx.
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01:32.03IriX64thats going to set me back, another 17" monitor gone
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18:10.39IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/566929  can't remember if i showed you this warning before or not.
18:30.41IriX64also wonders what on earth -lGL is doing in there when i specified no gl and the summary said it was not enabled.
18:31.43IriX64.
18:34.21IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/566971 <--- in case you think I jest.
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18:40.59IriX64huh it split it again, the paste i mean
18:41.13IriX64some near top some near bottom
18:41.47IriX64line 10
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19:11.01brlcadIriX64: tone it down
19:12.15brlcadthat -lGL is coming from tcl, something in their configure
19:12.28brlcadlooks like their X11 tests
19:13.19IriX64never thought of that thanks
19:13.31IriX64and i will
19:16.41pooliobrlcad: Is there already an established voxel data spec?
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20:06.15IriX64http://www.terarecon.com/downloads/support/vp1000_voxelfileformat.pdf   poolio
20:08.25brlcadpoolio: brl-cad uses raw data for most of the geometry data sets as there are a slew of other tools for processing raw data in a streaming manner among other manipulations
20:08.48brlcadso if you were to create a vol primitive, for example, you'd provide raw b&w slices
20:09.56brlcadthe mk_vol() routine will take volumetric data in said raw format and make a vol for you
20:10.11brlcadmk_vol(struct rt_wdb *fp, const char *name, const char *file, int xdim, int ydim, int zdim, int lo, int hi, const fastf_t *cellsize, const matp_t mat)
20:14.40``Erikhm, 15 minutes, I wonder if this test run will be done by then.
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20:27.12pooliobrlcad: thanks
20:28.03pooliobrlcad: so support for volumetric data/voxels is already builtin?
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20:59.41IriX64brlcad: I can't seem to get anybody's windows x-server (besides cygwin-x) to have the geometry window pull double duty as the framebuffer, is it too much of a hassle to type exec fbserv -S690 /dev/X and use that for rendering?
21:01.16brlcadpoolio: yes, there is a volumetric primitive (the 'vol' primitive) -- i'd suggest making one by hand either in mged or in code using mk_vol() to get familiar
21:01.48Laniakeabrlcad: tell me - what determines the positions are which photons will fall on emulsion?
21:01.54brlcadIriX64: that's a known issue with the Windows display manager
21:01.57LaniakeaNot the density, but the individual positions themselves?
21:02.22IriX64really, thought it was my fault, sorry to have brought it up
21:02.55brlcadLaniakea: what do you mean by the positions?  the photons are fired out from the light sources randomly .. hit points are determined against the geometry, which in turn deposits the photons
21:04.05Laniakeabrlcad: if you have a coherent source (laser), you still get random positions.
21:04.28LaniakeaCoherent source has a very simple wavefunction - sine wave - that doesn't contain any randomness
21:04.34LaniakeaWhere does the entropy come from?
21:05.17brlcadLaniakea: er, I presumed you were talking about photon mapping
21:05.32brlcaddo you just mean regular ray-tracing photons?
21:06.17brlcadbecause photon mapping that I just described is something very different
21:07.22brlcadregular ray-tracing fires a grid of rays that recursive traverse through a scene, forking off diffusion, reflection, and perhaps shador rays for each segment
21:08.05brlcadyou can tell rt to shoot perfectly in the center of the grid cells (the default), or jitter the rays, or shoot multiple per cell, or shoot multiple per cell jittered, etc
21:16.47yukonbobbrlcad: do you have any info on the headers of .dems? The stuff I was dealing with before was always "square" (ie: X by Y) size, but the samples you sent have variable numbers of entries per record, and I'm not sure how to interpret it...
21:17.12brlcadhowdy yukonbob
21:17.25brlcadhm, mebbie
21:17.33yukonbob*"headers" where header == first 1024-byte block, and 9-pieces of info at start of ea. record.
21:18.12yukonbobI've googled around, and skimmed other projects, but nothings turned up for me yet...
21:21.18brlcadhttp://rockyweb.cr.usgs.gov/nmpstds/demstds.html
21:21.35brlcadpart 2 covers the format
21:22.06Laniakeabrlcad: no I mean the physical workings of our universe
21:24.19yukonbobbrlcad: rock'n'roll... thx
21:28.05``Erikahhhhhh, home at last
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22:04.33jimmyzhi
22:14.40brlcadhowdy jimmyz
22:15.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: When an arc's start center and end points are coplanar, we can't find the plane! so calculate the normal and pass it through to the handler...
22:16.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: alter the arc handle method to take a pre-calculated normal
22:17.27jimmyzhi brlcad
22:17.30jimmyzare you a bot?
22:17.59brlcadjimmyz: are you?
22:18.09jimmyzcorse not
22:18.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: to avoid trying to build a plane from a line, pass the origin and a normal instead
22:18.24brlcadthen corse not too
22:18.33jimmyzok sorry
22:18.46jimmyzi'm interested in learning cad?
22:18.55jimmyzthis a good place to start?
22:19.09brlcadas good a place as any
22:19.20jimmyzdo you know catia at all/
22:19.31brlcaddepends for what purpose, but most of the fundamentals cut across industries
22:19.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: fix circular arc handler method to take a normal
22:19.40brlcadthe basics of catia, yes
22:19.56jimmyzhow much is it?
22:20.10brlcadbrl-cad's gui interface (mged) is nothing at all like catia ;)
22:20.20brlcadyou'd have to ask the catia folks
22:20.27jimmyzhow capable is brl cad?
22:20.42brlcadfully capable for what it's intended, it's in production use
22:20.43jimmyzcf solidworks and catia etc
22:20.59jimmyzdoes it do FEA?
22:21.05brlcadbut we don't do everything, and don't cater to entire sub-industries of CAD  (see the docs on the website)
22:21.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: add a cheesy file parameter to converter (remove hard-coded filename)... needs to be fleshed out better
22:21.57brlcadehm, most "CAD" packages don't do actual finite element analysis -- they interface with them or include a separate analysis module
22:22.18jimmyzoh i see
22:22.28jimmyzare you in the industry?
22:22.45brlcadthere is a brl-cad interface to fea, several actually -- some better than others, some under active development
22:23.00brlcader, I have no idea what you mean by that
22:23.10jimmyzdo you do cad for a living
22:23.14brlcadwhat constitutes being "in the industry"
22:23.45brlcadare you asking if am I am a geometric designer/modeler?
22:24.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: many bug fixes (openNURBS knot vector problem again...) lots of debug statements. adjusted flatness criterion to be a scale of the curve length.
22:24.23jimmyzumm guess so
22:24.28brlcadi have modeled some things, but i'm more a developer -- software architect, programmer, code monkey
22:24.41jimmyzoh right
22:25.10brlcadi work on brl-cad .. a lot .. among other hats
22:25.25jimmyzis it still developed by the military?
22:25.36brlcadyes, actively developed and used
22:25.57jimmyzi see
22:26.17jimmyzi'm in UK btw
22:27.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: fixed convex hull handling and finished case C implementation (not debugged yet)
22:28.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: NumIntersectionsWith now virtual (duh)
22:29.11jimmyzwhat is CIA 4 saying?
22:29.29brlcadthose are changes being made to the source code
22:29.40brlcadcia announces them in real-time as the code is modified
22:29.49jimmyzwho's jlowenz?
22:30.04brlcadone of the developers
22:30.11jimmyzoh i see
22:30.58jimmyzdo these cad programs generate output files for CNC machines to work on?
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23:05.55brlcadjimmyz: not usually
23:05.59brlcadthat's what CAM software is for
23:06.31brlcade.g. GNU CAM: http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
23:06.39``Erikwe can generate stl, but not gcode
23:07.30brlcadsomeone should write a g-gcode
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23:16.27bjorkBSDbrlcad, doesn't the .mil rely on sub-contractors?
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23:33.27brlcadbjorkBSD: huh?
23:33.32brlcadsometimes
23:33.45bjorkBSDi'm wondering how they'd use brl-cad at all.
23:34.00brlcader, how's that?
23:34.05brlcador rather why's that?
23:34.21bjorkBSDif they're using subcontractors, they only need to specify an order no?
23:34.46bjorkBSD'build me a tank daggammit'
23:34.51bjorkBSDand then tank get's built.
23:34.57brlcadoh
23:34.59brlcadheck no
23:34.59bjorkBSDthen .mil takes delivery :)
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23:36.05brlcadthe tanks are modeled by the modeling experts (of which there are contractor and gov't experts that are adept in brl-cad)
23:36.10louipcI bet they like to be involved with the design too :D
23:36.18brlcadalso, subcontractor != contractor
23:36.29brlcadi think you just mean contractors
23:36.53*** part/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-129-128-152.range81-129.btcentralplus.com)
23:36.54brlcada subcontractor would be someone working under contract to a contractor
23:37.32louipcsubcontractors might not even know what machine the part they're making goes in...
23:38.21bjorkBSDah i see i see.
23:38.31bjorkBSDjust like ... construction!
23:38.41brlcadbjorkBSD: brl-cad is primarly used to model military assets for analysis purposes
23:38.48brlcademphasis on the analysis aspect
23:38.55bjorkBSDhmmm.
23:39.06brlcadlike, model the M1A1 and analyze how well it does in a given encounter
23:39.20bjorkBSDhuh? in a combat situation?
23:39.24brlcadsure
23:39.28bjorkBSDyou can do THAT?!
23:39.40brlcadthat's what it's *primarily* used for
23:39.56bjorkBSDshit! we've been abusing the poor thing by making tea cups with it then :-S
23:40.12brlcadthere is a brl-cad model of almost every military asset that's been in production over the past two decades
23:40.26bjorkBSDdamn!
23:40.27brlcadat least army and air force.. navy not so much, but some
23:40.55bjorkBSDthat's pretty cool.
23:41.05bjorkBSDi'm a pacifist of course...
23:41.16brlcadsome modeled entirely by hand, some modeled in other systems and converted to brl-cad, some worked on in multiple cad systems by many groups, etc
23:41.17bjorkBSDbut that's still pretty damned cool :-?
23:42.22bjorkBSDhmmm.
23:42.23brlcadmany of the folks that do the analyses are pacificists too -- vulnerability is generally more important than lethality
23:42.38brlcadkeeping the folks inside the vehicles safe
23:42.47bjorkBSDyes. the embedded journalists :)
23:42.53brlcadand how to do that better
23:42.59bjorkBSDwe don't want to wake those up in the middle of something fun :D
23:43.30bjorkBSDso you're saying there's a strength of materials component hidden in brl-cad?
23:44.09brlcadwasn't referring to the 'pacifist' folks inside the vehicle .. was referring to people that run the analyses and simulations, trying to find ways to make the vehicles more safe
23:44.19bjorkBSDi know i was being 'punny'.
23:44.22brlcadbjorkBSD: no, i'm not saying that
23:44.58brlcadbrl-cad does the geometric representation, physical characteristics -- representing what exists in real life on the computer
23:45.11brlcadit's the job of various analysis codes to do something with that information
23:45.36brlcadwhether it has anything to do with material strengths, penetration equations, system connectivity, etc
23:45.46bjorkBSDaha
23:46.07brlcadbrl-cad just answers the fundamental geometry questions
23:48.18bjorkBSDheh. i wonder what they used in ussr way back when for the same tasks.
23:49.32brlcadthe extent of brl-cad's analysis capacity are those that purely relate to geometric analysis -- computing weights, moments, presented area, energy signatures, images, etc
23:50.28brlcadonce we start talking about penetration and material interactions, things get sensitive or classified really quick
23:50.43bjorkBSDthat's understandable.
23:50.46brlcadand they certainly wouldn't just be sitting there in an open souce package :)
23:51.35brlcadit was hard enough to open source brl-cad given it's mere ties to the analysis
23:52.36brlcadeven with 15 years of "almost open source" public distribution
23:52.43bjorkBSDhmmm.
23:52.50bjorkBSDparanoid much? :D
23:53.35brlcadnot me, but others .. heh :)
23:54.59bjorkBSDso why were the sources opened then?
23:55.30bjorkBSDgiven the importance of the tool.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070615

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070615

00:07.26*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754070.dsl.bell.ca)
00:10.13brlcadbjorkBSD: exactly because it's important
00:10.34brlcadthere is no openly freely available CAD system
00:10.45brlcadthere is hardly any collaboration between CAD systems
00:10.51brlcadthere's no collaborative development
00:11.03brlcadthere's no standard open format that everyone can agree on
00:11.16bjorkBSD'cause everyone's trying for a lock-in.
00:11.23brlcadexactly
00:11.39brlcadit's a multi-billion dollar industry, everyone fighting to be the top dog
00:12.08brlcadhere we have a particular community that really has no vested interest in the economics of the CAD industry
00:12.44brlcadisn't trying to sell you anything, they're just trying to do research and analysis -- collaborate with universities, collaborate with other labs, other countries
00:14.03brlcadplus on a mildly fringe ideology, brl-cad's had massive investment .. investment of american tax-payer dollars .. millions
00:14.13brlcadwhy not put that effort into the hands of the public
00:14.41brlcadencourage collaboration, get folks to make a tool that does what everyone wants -- something with a good solid foundation (even if the gui sucks)
00:15.55bjorkBSDheheheh
00:16.06brlcaddeveloping a CAD system requires massive effort, how utterly massive that is most folks do not realize, but that's why there's not anything other than small academic/toy offerings
00:18.42brlcadby some quantitative measures, brl-cad has almost 500 man-years of effort invested
00:19.01bjorkBSDdouble that and it'd be as old as methuselah :P
00:19.19brlcadmost commercial cad systems have several thousand man-years invested
00:20.08brlcada package like unigraphics is somewhere on the order of 100 man-years per year and they've been around for over a decade
00:20.31bjorkBSDyikes. have you used it before?
00:21.21brlcadyep
00:21.42brlcadthe linux kernel has something on the order of 2500 man-years invested
00:22.17brlcadblender is around 400
00:22.33bjorkBSDhow does it compare to brl-cad?
00:22.42brlcadgoing by ohloh metrics at the moment, because I'm lacking my other links
00:22.48brlcadhow does what compare?
00:24.20bjorkBSDthe unigraphics
00:29.34brlcadit's a difficult comparison because the big-four in CAD (unigraphics|nx, pro/engineer, catia, solidworks) are so big with such major industry ties/investments .. and efforts put towards their user interface
00:30.39brlcadbrl-cad has had exceptional effort put towards its engine, validity, accuracy, performance, analysis components, functionality, etc .. but has had very little invested in the way of the modeler gui
00:31.15brlcadwhich is exactly why one of my long-term plans is to revamp the gui, expose all of the functionality and power in brl-cad much better than is currently done with a modern interface
00:32.50bjorkBSDwhat would you write it in?
00:37.43brlcadwell, it's more of a layering, with a clear separation between the tools (i.e. plugins) and the graphical interface
00:38.07brlcadthe gui could be written in whatever really -- it's a somewhat thin client
00:38.16brlcadthe backend processing is in C/C++
00:39.28bjorkBSDso it could still be tcl/tk based.
00:41.26bjorkBSDbah. i'm missing a pat metheney concert.
00:41.33brlcadwell, as it currently stands designed in my architecture plans, most of the new client will be written in C++ with a plugin layer that includes a tcl interpreter (among others) so that plugins can be imported from our existing code base as well as allowing for plugins in other languages
00:42.00brlcadtcl's embedded into brl-cad's core libraries, so that's not likely to go away anytime soon
00:43.39brlcadit's really making a system that lets each language do what it does well, and letting plugin writers use whatever is most comfortable to them
00:44.24brlcadif someone wants to make a tcl/tk, python, or java gui .. they will be able to pretty easily
00:45.10brlcadand still leverage the core processing back-end that we already have in place
01:00.20brlcadyup, though there's a nice minimal subset that you can write to
01:01.09brlcadso while writing a gcode-to-brlcad importer might be a royal pain with all of the vendor-specific additions, going out to gcode doesn't have to be as much of a pain
01:01.27brlcadmaybe have some options for which sets of extensions to allow if it makes for better machinings
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01:39.54louipc__other CAM software employ gcode preprocessors, where the operations are defined by some other language and then are translated into gcode for a particular machine/control.
01:49.44``Erik*snrkt* mensa application http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=10172005
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04:10.15cadguyg'night all
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12:06.56thing0hey all
13:10.44thing0bye all
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20:00.14IriX64brlcad's gui does not (insert appropriate word here)
20:12.05IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, part of the gui i like
20:17.22IriX64mental note try that shot without debugging and see
20:18.43yukonbobIriX64: whenever I look at your postings, all I see is:
20:18.48yukonbobXML Parsing Error: syntax error
20:18.48yukonbobLocation: http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/
20:18.48yukonbobLine Number 3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN">
20:18.50yukonbob------------------------------------------------^
20:19.21IriX64try it without the /photos
20:19.38IriX64thats a microsoft site
20:19.40yukonbobsame thing
20:20.02IriX64dunno what to tell you it loads fine here, wait let me try firefox
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20:21.46IriX64my firefox sees it
20:21.57yukonbobsees error, or sees proper page?
20:22.04IriX64proper page
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20:23.04IriX64firefox 2.0.0.3
20:24.08yukonbobhttp://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Firix32.spaces.live.com%2Fphotos%2F
20:24.35IriX64dunno man
20:25.12IriX64wait
20:26.08IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/ copied out of my address bar
20:31.43yukonbobheh -- it works if I "curl" that page, and use firefix to look at resultant file... Thank-you Microsoft!!!
20:33.04yukonbob(...then then don't follow any links --- guess I have to 'curl' that too ;)
20:43.04IriX64heh sorry man
20:45.13IriX64is that helicopter really that black?
20:47.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: make sure attributes don't have empty names
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21:22.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/ (operators.asc Makefile.am): add operators.asc which is an example of CSG operators in action, inspired from a similar image from Waterloo's cs488 course on interactive ray-tracing of CSG
21:23.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: units command doesn't seem to be working, must be fixed before release
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21:58.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_ehy.c: it's an elliptical hyperboloid
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070616

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070616

01:11.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/attach.c: jeebus, why in the world is a vls being used for a constant string..
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02:47.57DaytonaSean, are you there?
02:56.43Daytonaanybody have any details on the mged ubits command problem?
02:56.57Daytonaoops, I mean "units" command
02:58.30brlcadhey Daytona
02:58.38brlcadhm, is this a first? :)
02:59.33DaytonaYep
03:00.09DaytonaI saw the "units" command in the TODO
03:00.17DaytonaWhat is the problem?
03:00.44brlcadwell, I just noticed today -- doesn't report the units if you just run units
03:01.08DaytonaOh, I noticed that, too
03:01.36DaytonaBut the help message doesn't say it will report the units
03:01.51Daytonaand the units are displayed in the GUI
03:02.31brlcadiirc it used to report the units, though
03:02.37brlcadjust like title
03:03.02DaytonaProbably should, for consistency with other commands
03:03.11brlcadplus, displaying in the gui doesn't really help if you're in console mode :)
03:03.25brlcadhm, so you think it never did?
03:03.30DaytonaYeah, should be an easy fix
03:03.48DaytonaI don't recall for sure whether it did or not
03:03.50brlcadi swear i remember it returning the units.. or maybe there's just some other command I'm thinking of that also reports it
03:04.19brlcadbut I even had that wired in my mind, as I was actually modelling something earlier
03:05.09DaytonaMaybe I'll take a look at it this weekend
03:06.28brlcadjust took a quick look at wdb_units_cmd.. it has print statements in there to report the current units
03:06.33brlcad"You are now editing in ..."
03:06.49brlcadso something fishy
03:07.25DaytonaIs it putting the string in interp.results?
03:07.32brlcadwould hunt it down, but I'm deep in the middle of a graphical crash reporter :)
03:07.45DaytonaI'll have a look
03:08.16brlcadit does do a tcl_appendresult
03:08.36DaytonaOK, I'll look at it this weekend
03:09.08DaytonaRight now I need to hit the sack. Have to get up early to take the grandson to a ball game
03:09.23brlcadcool
03:09.32brlcadat ripken's?
03:09.33Daytonabye
03:09.52DaytonaNo, he's playing in a tournament in Essex
03:09.59brlcadoh, even better ;)
03:10.08brlcadwell, best of luck to him
03:10.13brlcadand g'night!
03:10.14Daytonasee ya, thanks
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04:07.36thing0hey guys
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10:42.17thing1hey
10:42.34thing1hey
10:42.37thing1dammit
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12:44.14thing1hmmm
12:44.21thing0finally
12:44.25thing0back to normal
13:04.03brlcadhowdy thing0
13:04.15brlcadyou're on and off too quickly :)
13:04.19brlcad(to respond)
13:04.25thing0howdy brlcad
13:04.28thing0yeah
13:04.44thing0my router was dropping out today
13:07.01thing0so what you been up to brlcad?
13:07.35brlcadcoding ;)
13:07.43thing0hehe
13:07.56thing0but of course
13:07.56brlcadtrying to get a few last things implemented so a release can be posted
13:07.56thing0;)
13:08.14thing0i have been getting more into project management stuff
13:08.29thing0listening to podcasts while doing other stuff ;)
13:10.54b0efany way to prevent mged from using mouse follow?
13:11.33b0efit's impossible to switch to the listener when the mouse is hovering over the graphics window
13:15.30``Erik"project management stuff"/
13:15.31``Erik?
13:15.37thing0yeah
13:15.46thing0my next goal in life
13:15.50thing0project manager
13:15.59``Erikheh
13:16.02thing0yeah
13:16.12thing0I get to be a senior project engineer by default
13:16.18thing0just have to sit around for a while
13:16.23thing0PM I have to work for
13:16.33thing0ahh
13:16.36thing0;)
13:16.47``Erikrelated to software development, primarily
13:16.53thing0yeah
13:17.09``Erikdeep dependancy chains, radically un-equal "resources", ...
13:17.18thing0hmm
13:17.49``ErikI even have a ruby prototype of a time mgmt/todo list program that tries to address a lot of the shit other osftware doesn't :)
13:17.50thing0I want to be able to learn general skills in PM
13:17.53``Erikuhmmmm
13:17.59``Erikjoel spolsky
13:18.03thing0so that it can be transferable to any environment
13:18.26``Erikwrote an article on it that is interesting (just bear in mind that he was the project manager for excel... so bring a salt lick for any excel related comment in that article)
13:18.29thing0i am in engineering construction at the moment
13:18.40thing0ahh ok
13:18.48thing0you got the name of the article?
13:19.04``ErikI'd assert that software development (an artform) and construction are so radically different, that the skills are simply not transferrable :(
13:19.10``Eriknot off the top of my head
13:19.29thing0i disagree
13:19.29thing0the principle of project management is transferable
13:19.33thing0but it has to be adapted
13:19.34``Erikperhaps
13:19.47thing0there is QA etc in construction
13:19.48``ErikI'm just skeered, cuz there's a notion that a programmer is a programmer
13:19.52b0efI've just completed a semester in PM;)
13:19.57thing0hehe
13:20.01``Erikso you can grab a java UI developer... and make 'em do os C work
13:20.11``ErikI've seen it happen WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH over the past 3 years.
13:20.11``Erik:(
13:20.19``Erik('cept more in the other direction)
13:20.37thing0yeah
13:20.51``Erikand denying perfect fit situations where both the customer and developer really really want to be because of body count on some other high profile project
13:21.02thing0lol
13:21.07thing0nah keep going
13:21.07thing0;)
13:21.15``ErikI'm on vacation, that trainwreck of fucked up idiotic criminal management does not exist.
13:21.22thing0hehe
13:21.23thing0ahh ok
13:21.31thing0you should chill then
13:21.32thing0;)
13:21.39``Erikin 1.5 hours, I'm driving to the airport
13:21.43``Erikyo
13:21.46thing0ah
13:21.49thing0where you going?
13:21.54``Erikpicking someone up
13:22.40thing0ahh
13:22.47thing0hehe
13:23.24thing0hehe
13:23.36thing0PARTY at ``Erik house
13:23.38``Erikand hopefully enough left over for the next month *cough*
13:23.45thing0hehe
13:23.48thing0sure
13:24.11``Eriknot sure, though... people from missoura like the booze O.o
13:24.41thing0ahh
14:01.26thing0hmm
14:01.37thing0``Erik : One hour remaining
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15:31.14thing07 minutes ``Erik
15:31.16thing0go go go
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17:55.33thing0you back ``Erik?
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18:32.41thing0cya pppl
18:32.43thing0bye!
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20:25.31akrealhello all!
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20:55.37jimmyzanyone in?
20:58.09akrealjimmyz: aloha!
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (8 files):
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: Eliminated direct access of interp->result (Not reliable since tcl 8.0).
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: See the comment in tcl.h.
21:18.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: This also fixes the "units" command.
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21:27.42Daytonasean, are you there?
21:32.03jimmyzanyone in now?
21:32.12Daytonahi
21:32.17jimmyzhiya
21:32.24jimmyzi installed brlcad yesterday
21:32.39Daytonaany problems?
21:32.51jimmyznow my comp says i have a file called c:program, which may render computer unstable
21:33.07jimmyzthe file doesn't have a suffix for file type
21:33.28jimmyzis it connected with the install?
21:34.26DaytonaI've never installed in Windows, so I can't help you, but if anyone else is listening, they might help
21:34.41jimmyzhmm
21:34.57jimmyzhow does brlcad compare with autocad?
21:35.28Daytonabrlcad doesn't do drawings, it's a solid modeller
21:36.33jimmyzi don't follow
21:36.50DaytonaMostly uses CSG (components built up from combinations of simple primitive shapes)
21:37.04DaytonaCSG == Combinatorial Solid Geometry
21:37.47jimmyzok. what do you use it for
21:37.54DaytonaAutocad does engineering drawings and some BREP (Boundary Respresentation)
21:38.44jimmyzhmm. i'm lost
21:38.58DaytonaThe Army uses it to create detailed 3D computer models of vehicles, which can then be interrogated via raytracing
21:39.07jimmyzis brlcad used for particular things like vehicles?
21:39.40DaytonaActually, it can be used to model any objects
21:40.10DaytonaIt has excellent raytracing capability
21:40.54jimmyzwhat is that useful for?
21:42.03DaytonaIn simualtions that model bullet paths through vehicles, or photon paths through scenes, things like that
21:43.18jimmyzwouldn't you need FEA to know if a bullet gets through a surface?
21:44.58DaytonaIt doesn't do the physics, just the geometry. BRL-CAD can tell you what lies along a line through the model, but another application would calculate how far along that line a bullet would penetrate
21:46.27jimmyzhmm
21:46.32jimmyzwhat do you use it for?
21:46.44DaytonaI work for the Army :-)
21:47.59jimmyzoh right
21:48.07jimmyzyou design vehicles?
21:48.32DaytonaNo, I work on the software used to evaluate vehicles
21:49.15jimmyzhow does the software evaluate vehicles?
21:49.16DaytonaThat software uses BRL-CAD
21:49.34jimmyzcrash testing?
21:50.21DaytonaNo, simulations of bullet penetration and damage. BRL-CAD supplies the vehicle geometry information.
21:52.01jimmyzhmm
21:52.07jimmyzwhich vehicles have you worked on?
21:52.42DaytonaMany, unfortunately, I can't get into details here :-)
21:52.52jimmyzahh
21:53.42DaytonaBRL-CAD can also make some good images of models
21:54.15jimmyzif i want to design a boat would brl be suitable?
21:55.20DaytonaIf you actually want to build the boat, probably not. It can't make the required engineering drawings.
21:55.59jimmyzwhat would an engineering drawing contain that brl wouldn't do?
21:56.04jimmyzexcuse my ignorance
21:57.16DaytonaEngineering drawings show things like dimensions, curve radii, surface finishes, ...
21:57.52jimmyzbrl just shows lines?
21:58.13DaytonaBRL-CAD can do very nice colr shaded images of the model, but it won't automatically add dimensions, etc
21:58.24Daytonaoops, I mean "coloc"
21:58.38DaytonaThat is "color"
21:58.55jimmyzhmm
21:59.09jimmyzso can't do plots from it?
22:00.34DaytonaIt can do plots, but they are different that what you would get from Autocad
22:02.16jimmyzso what is the use of brl without engineering drawings?
22:02.21jimmyznot dissing it.......
22:03.34DaytonaIt was not intended for design and build. It was originally created for the Army's use.
22:03.59jimmyzwhat was it created for then, and why did the OS it?
22:04.43DaytonaOthers have used it for things like x-ray treatment planning.
22:05.17jimmyzradiotherapy you mean?
22:05.30DaytonaThe Army created it for its raytracing capability. To quickly determine what lies along any line through the geometry
22:05.55DaytonaX-Ray treatment for cancer turmors
22:06.01jimmyzi see
22:07.07DaytonaYou could build your boat in BRL-CAD and make images and drawings of the boat from any viewpoint.
22:07.37DaytonaAnd use that boat model in another application that needed to know about boat geometry.
22:08.08DaytonaBut boat manufacturers would not find your boat model useful.
22:09.16jimmyzdo you deal with boats at all?
22:09.22Daytonano
22:09.33DaytonaThat's theNavy :-)
22:09.58jimmyzlol
22:10.09jimmyzare you an engineer?
22:10.32DaytonaNo, Computer Scientist
22:10.56Daytonahow about you?
22:11.41jimmyzvision science
22:12.09jimmyzbut i have silly ideas of building a boat
22:12.32jimmyzcomplex business tho' hydrodynamics and all
22:12.32DaytonaNow my ignorance, what is vision science?
22:12.39jimmyzhow the brain sees
22:12.43DaytonaOh
22:13.18DaytonaYes, as I said, you can modle the geometry with BRL-CAD, but it doesn't know about physics.
22:13.45jimmyzwhich programs do?
22:14.38akrealDaytona: physics is weight and so on? but not color and transpacy?...
22:14.42DaytonaDon't know what might be available free, but things like NASTRAN do FEA
22:15.06Daytonacorrect, BRL-CAD can handle color and transparency
22:15.25jimmyzcatia?
22:16.35DaytonaCATIA, Pro/Engineer, Unigraphics, ... are CAD systems specifically designed for design-to-build.
22:17.28DaytonaThey do mostly geometry, but connect with other packages that can do physics, kinematics, weight and balance, ...
22:17.47jimmyzgod, it's a complicated business
22:18.12DaytonaSure is, that's why I stay with simple computer software!!!!
22:20.10jimmyzlike brl?
22:20.20Daytonayes :-)
22:20.56jimmyzbrl is simple?
22:21.47DaytonaIt's actually a pretty simple idea, that has a lot of tools and capabilities built up around it.
22:22.23DaytonaIt's predecessor was started in the 1970's
22:23.00jimmyzi saw the pic of someone on a pdp with it
22:23.31DaytonaIt was written to replace having to look through engineering drawings of vehicles to determine what wasa along a line through the vehicle
22:24.08jimmyzoh right
22:24.15DaytonaOne of the guys in the picture was probably Mike Muuss, the original designer of BRL-CAD
22:26.43Daytonagot to go now, see you around
22:27.06jimmyzthanks a lot
22:27.08jimmyznice talking
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070617

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070617

00:02.58jimmyzanyone around
01:21.04brlcadahh drat, missed daytona
01:21.52jimmyzhi brlcad
01:21.58jimmyzyou there?
01:47.12brlcadhello
01:47.58jimmyzhi
01:48.48jimmyz<PROTECTED>
01:49.25brlcadeh, doesn't sound like it
01:51.32brlcadthe message sounds a bit bogus
01:51.50brlcadpresumably related to the "Program Files" directory
01:52.01jimmyzthe file doesn't have a type - no suffix
01:52.08jimmyzi'm thinking virus
01:52.20brlcadcould be
01:52.36brlcadthe joys of working with Windows
01:53.24jimmyzscan came clean tho
01:53.43jimmyzmaybe i created a directory in brlcad
01:56.59jimmyzcan you uninstall brlcad?
01:57.41brlcadsure I can
01:58.25brlcadif something is complaining about a file called program, just look at that file -- delete it or rename it or whatever
01:59.31jimmyzis first line of the file contents. looks brlcad related wouldn't you say?
02:00.35brlcadsure
02:01.06brlcadlooks like something you created
02:01.13brlcadmaybe a geometry file
02:01.37jimmyzhmm
02:01.59brlcadstill, it's back to the same issue .. something is complaining about that file - presumably your OS?
02:02.26jimmyzyeah
02:02.42jimmyzi think you;re right
02:02.48brlcadand presumably you created it through some action .. not a big mystery -- just delete the file? :)
02:02.53jimmyzhow do i uninstall it and reinstall it
02:02.57jimmyzthere's another problem too
02:03.10jimmyzis says various files are not where they should be
02:03.10brlcadan uninstall won't remove any file you created
02:03.18jimmyzyeah, separate problem
02:03.25jimmyzi'll delete that
02:03.36brlcadit should be in your uninstall apps thing
02:03.53brlcadusual windows shield junk
02:04.35jimmyzthanks
02:16.32jimmyznn all
02:25.10brlcadcya
02:40.29jimmyzreinstalled it. same problem
02:40.38jimmyznow it won't start up properly
02:40.54jimmyzsays html/manuals.. are not where they should bw
02:41.04jimmyz*be
02:41.32brlcaddoes it actually start up, or are you just reading the message in console
02:41.48brlcadthere are some messages mged writes into the console about not finding resources, those are normal on windows
02:42.04brlcadif you get the gui, though, it's fine
02:42.05jimmyzahh i see
02:42.21jimmyzhmm, but the gui doesn't have menus at top now
02:42.34brlcadthere should be two windows
02:42.35jimmyzand menus in command window are unresponsive
02:42.57brlcadeh
02:43.10brlcadi'm not sure what you've done
02:43.40brlcadi've never heard someone have so much trouble with just installing it on windows, you're .. special :)
02:43.59jimmyzgonna reboot comp
02:44.06jimmyzg'night again
02:44.12jimmyzthanks for your help
02:44.15brlcadbest of luck
02:44.32brlcadthe install is pretty much isolated to one location, easy to clean up and start over fresh
02:44.54jimmyzcool
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09:11.57thing0hey yall
09:13.20*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-066-228.pools.arcor-ip.net)
09:13.27thing0hey elite01
09:13.39elite01hi thing0
09:13.52thing0how you doing?
09:14.12elite01quite ok
09:14.28elite01you're fine as well?
09:14.29thing0good
09:14.35thing0nah, i'm sick
09:14.41thing0it sucks
09:14.57elite01i was sick the day before yesterday
09:15.02thing0ahh
09:15.06thing0it is not good
09:15.10thing0hard to sleep
09:15.10elite01no
09:15.21thing0cannot take time off work either
09:15.28elite01i actually slept well, but the day was quite ugly
09:15.35thing0hehe
09:15.58thing0i have fallen asleep two consectutive nights with my laptop on my bed
09:16.14elite01haha
09:16.37thing0yeah
09:16.49thing0I actually also fell asleep on the couch with the laptop in my lap
09:16.57thing0my little brother woke me
09:16.58thing0up
09:17.07thing0so that I wouldn't drop it
09:17.23elite01i always manage to put my laptop on some shelf before i sleep
09:17.39thing0sometimes i read articles
09:17.42thing0before sleep
09:17.45thing0and doze off
09:18.03thing0i actually fell asleep at work during my lunch break
09:18.07elite01i tend to watch star trek, reading soo late in a dark room makes my eyes hurt
09:18.11thing0almost got an orange in the back of the head
09:18.26thing0i read on purpose to make my eyes sore
09:18.31thing0so that I close them and sleep :P
09:18.39elite01hehe
09:18.50thing0it works well
09:19.50elite01do you care for your laptop battery?
09:20.05thing0yeah
09:20.15thing0I usually plug it in when I am sitting down
09:20.34elite01i remove it while in bed because the laptop gets a bit hot with no real ventilation
09:21.05thing0yeah
09:21.19thing0I was thinking of adding extra rubber feet across the base of the laptop
09:21.33thing0to allow it to sit higher on softer surfaces
09:22.04elite01hmm mine has a fan on the back side, which i like
09:23.32thing0my fan is underneath
09:23.34thing0which I hate
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09:23.57*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-121-145.dyn.iinet.net.au)
09:24.51thing0but yeah
09:26.32elite01what are you using brlcad for?
09:28.02thing0nothing at the moment
09:28.10thing0I am looking to join as a developer
09:28.40thing0I am currently a user of Autodesk Inventor
09:28.49thing0didn't apply to join there dev team
09:29.02thing0cause I wanted to work here in mining first
09:29.29thing0as it is the best industry at the moment to become a project manager
09:29.33thing0as there is a lot of work on
09:29.48thing0so I want to join BRLCAD as a hobby
09:29.53elite01ah
09:29.58thing0yeah
09:30.23thing0i made enough noise at the autodesk forums
09:30.46thing0was contacted by one of the lead software engineers for the modules
09:30.48thing0hehe
09:31.15thing0but yeah
09:31.35thing0I was outraged when a component from there software was removed when they got bought out by autodesk
09:31.56thing0apparently it didn't fit with the way the program was going
09:32.04thing0so it got canned
09:32.08thing0but yeah
09:32.23elite01just removed is nasty
09:32.28thing0yeah
09:32.40thing0I couldn't get a copy of there old software either
09:32.50thing0contacted all the old reseller which didn't have copies
09:33.07elite01hmm
09:33.13thing0it allowed for closed loop control of models
09:33.22thing0which I thought was awesome
09:33.33thing0but they removed the scripting engine
09:33.56elite01they removed a whole scripting engine?
09:34.11thing0the control part
09:34.18thing0the physic based stuff is still there
09:34.29elite01hm
09:34.35thing0but you can only do limited open loop simulations
09:34.44thing0so yeah
09:35.04thing0no Middle level CAD company at the moment offers it
09:35.07thing0which is kind of sad
09:35.18thing0Solidworks sorta do it
09:35.32thing0but it was an absolute nightmare trying to get anywhere with it
09:35.43thing0and when I did, it still didn't meet my requirements
09:35.52thing0a lot of time spent with SW support
09:35.53thing0;)
09:35.54elite01that's a real problem
09:35.58thing0yeah
09:36.07thing0the only way you can do it easily
09:36.11thing0is to use MSC.Adams
09:36.18thing0which costs an arm and a leg
09:36.30thing0and also requires translation from your CAD
09:36.39thing0there is a free open source program now too
09:36.43thing0for robot simulation
09:36.55thing0but there CAD translator leaves a lot to be desired
09:37.06thing0maybe we should have some cross link with them
09:37.17thing0as in BRLCAD
09:37.22thing0cannot think of the name at the moment
09:45.47thing0nah
09:45.50thing0it wasn't open source
09:45.54thing0it was commercial
09:45.56thing0webots
09:53.23elite01scary :)
09:56.13thing0hmm
09:56.15thing0http://www.ode.org
09:56.18thing0this looks good
09:57.06elite01if you're in for a bit of c++ programming, sure :)
10:00.07thing0yeah
10:00.12thing0I ain't scared
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10:41.25thing0back
10:48.47elite01thing0, no need to be scared
10:49.39thing0I never fear
10:49.52thing0cause thing0 (pronounced THING O) is here
10:49.53thing0hehe
10:50.25elite01so i needn't even be scared because my excellent c skills fscked up vlc really badly
10:50.45elite01they're lucky i don't have write access to their vcs :)
10:51.02thing0hehe
10:51.12thing0my coding skills need a bit more practise
10:51.15thing0it has been awhile
10:51.53elite01i think it's worth it
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11:38.30thing0bbs
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13:47.47thing0cya ppl
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070618

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070618

01:05.57*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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04:39.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_diff.c:
04:39.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: Added calls to wdb_create_command() since it had been removed from wdb_obj_init().
04:39.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: Also fixed a small bug where -f option would miss differences.
04:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (7 files in 6 dirs):
04:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: Eliminated more instances of direct access of interp->result (not allowed
04:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: since tcl 8.0)
05:16.49brlcadwoot
05:18.38yukonbobbrlcad: BRL-CAD heavily uses [incr tcl], right?
05:19.10brlcadmged and rtwizard heavily use incrTcl
05:19.17brlcadand archer iirc
05:19.29yukonbob=) -- what I mean is sit idly by --- hopefully I'll be able to contribute some useful code sometime :)
05:19.30brlcadi.e. the gui tools do, but not the rest
05:19.36yukonbobah...
05:19.52yukonbobbut the 7.10 is dependent on the (still beta) tcl 8.5, right?
05:20.17brlcadthere are hundreds of "processing tools" that work in a unix fashion (can be chained together, perform rather isolated tasks, command-driven, etc)
05:20.29brlcadright
05:21.00brlcad8.4 can be made to work, but there are about a dozen lines of code that would need to be back-updated
05:21.18brlcads/back-updated/patched/
05:21.29yukonbobis there a changelog 7.8->7.10?
05:21.53brlcad8.5 is needed for the tk aqua fixes on os x though among a few other significant fixes
05:22.23brlcadyes, see the NEWS file for user-visible changes or the ChangeLog for all commits release-to-release
05:22.41brlcadspeaking of the news file...
05:23.04yukonbobbrlcad: 8.5 gets it's own native OO, iirc, kinda bases on Xotcl and snit... that's why I was asking about [incr tcl]...
05:23.21yukonbob/bases/based/
05:25.03brlcadhm, I've not seen anything related to that actually
05:25.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
05:25.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: john fixed the units command, woot. it was an issue with interp->result being
05:25.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: used where apparently it was an object instead of a string. this apparently
05:25.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: only now biting us, probably due to the 8.5 upgrade, though tcl.h says to stop
05:25.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: using it since 8.0
05:25.16brlcadi know tk picked up that entire theming package
05:26.21brlcadand a couple of the core tcl guys still work on incr tcl so it's quite far from dead (i'm on their commits and tracker lists)
05:29.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
05:29.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: john fixed the units command, woot. it was an issue with interp->result being
05:29.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: used where apparently it was an object instead of a string. this apparently
05:29.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: only now biting us, probably due to the 8.5 upgrade, though tcl.h says to stop
05:29.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: using it since 8.0
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06:21.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: can get/set with units command
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06:31.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed a g_diff bug where -f option missed differences -- now only calls atof the values actually seem to be numbers.
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06:51.29yukonbobbrlcad: you on?
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12:24.11crishi, I am an AutoCAD user, and I'm searching for a CAD "4 Linux". Please, what do you know about BRL-CAD? is it a good CAD? is it good for civil engiinering projects ?
12:28.34Laniakeacris: it's not good for CE because it doesn't have dimensions blueprint anything
12:29.27Laniakeacris: look at Qcad but that's 2D only
12:29.32crisLaniakea, hum... :-(    ok, thank you. but, do you know a CAD for Linux?
12:29.57LaniakeaI know just BRL-CAD and Qcad
12:30.05LaniakeaI doubt there is a 3D cad with blueprints and arrows
12:30.27LaniakeaI use BRL-CAD and Qcad on my mechanics project
12:30.43crisyes, I know QCad, but I dont like it, it isn't like autocad ... :-)
12:30.44Laniakeawhat is CE? Is it building houses? Or making machines?
12:31.04crisLaniakea -> CE = civil engennering
12:31.24Laniakeawhat is it?
12:34.45crisLaniakea -> I'm asking for a cad 4 linux to work with civil engennering
12:36.04crisLaniakea -> please, forget the last speak , CE = building houses
12:39.47crisLaniakea -> thank you
12:48.53Laniakeaoh houses
12:49.01Laniakeano I never did houses, only mechanical stuff
12:53.38``Erikheh, we could model the geometry, and I think we just got hte ability to convert to nastran for FAE type activities, and we have an approximation of edge drawing, and we can even do 2d overlay stuff... but there's no "measurement" tool to generate dimension info
12:57.20Laniakea``Erik: I just don't care about dims - I am happy that I am getting at least what I am getting from BRL-CAD :)
12:59.40``Erikjust noting where it falls short :
12:59.41``Erik:)
12:59.51``Eriksure as hell ain't gonna do shit about it right now, I'm on vacation :D
13:06.38archivistafter his holiday of course
13:06.50poolioanyone know if brlcad is going to be back today?
13:12.40``Erikhe seems to be back every day, is it something that someone else can help with? O.o
13:19.55poolio``Erik: Maybe, I'm starting work today and have a steady stream of questions :P
13:25.58poolioMost of them I'm able to answer myself if I spend the itme, it just would be a lot faster with someone who knew the codebase
13:31.48``Eriksome others of us have some familiarity :)
13:32.07poolioYeah but I didn't want to interrupt you :)
13:32.27``Erikaight, but if it's a 5 second thing *shrug* I'll help where I can
13:33.33poolio``Erik: I'm mainly trying to get how to go about converting a CSG shape into voxel data. So at the moment I'm trying to understand how to get a bounding box
13:34.18``Erikuhm, after you prep geometry, there's bounding box and bounding sphere information
13:34.41poolioYeah I see that, but I don't need all the other rt stuff
13:34.50brlcadyeah, he's around
13:35.02poolioLike I'm looking at g_qa.c and it looks like rt_prep_parallel does all the grunt work
13:35.06pooliobrlcad: morning :)
13:36.09``Erikg_qa, heh
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13:37.47poolioAlso. it appears make_bb in mged doesn't actually make the correct bounding box
13:38.06poolioOr more likely, I'm doing it wrong
13:38.11brlcadhow so ?
13:38.43brlcadit's AABB, not an OBB
13:39.28poolioAh oops, the issue was that I hadn't updated the framebuffer
13:39.36pooliod'oh
13:54.15pooliobrlcad: Do you think it's an OK starting point if I just took g_qa and stripped it down to what i needed and worked off that code base for the csg --> voxel-like form?
13:54.55brlcadyeah, that's viable
13:55.54brlcadnote, though, what part this actually is -- voxelization is one aspect of your fitness function
13:58.31poolioand the aabb is also needed for generation of the initial population
13:58.58poolioalong with eliminating invalid mutations
13:59.24brlcadsure, though does g_qa help with getting the aabb?
14:00.03pooliobrlcad: No, but it shows me how to do all the prepping I need to do in order to get it
14:00.55poolioAlthough I think I'd have to try to eliminate rt_prep and do something at a more lower level as the fitness function is going to be the main bottleneck of the GA
14:08.27poolioOh man, I'm going to have to touch up on semaphores with all this multiple cpu stuff :P
14:14.04brlcadthat's actually one of the nice aspects of g_qa is that it's already fully multithreaded
14:15.06brlcadlibrt's multithreading stuff isn't too complicated, you grab a semaphore to protect your data accesses, then release it when you're done
14:17.30brlcadthose routines are being run in parallel via that bu_parallel routine, which says to call plane_worker() for N threads (ncpu)
14:18.02pooliobrlcad: Yeah I got that :)
14:19.04poolioI'm trying to understand plane_worker and don't see why you shoot all the rays in the first row, but then every other in the next row
14:22.10brlcadah, that's a particular aspect of g_qa .. it's a refinement grid
14:22.26brlcadsince the model isn't changing.. it's shooting a grid that is more and more refined
14:22.31poolioSo meaning the grid spacing is decreeased and refined
14:22.34poolioyeah
14:22.36brlcadright
14:22.44brlcadso it doesn't need to reshoot the spacings it already shot at
14:22.58brlcadbig performance savings
14:23.00poolioAns so because it halves the size each time you can eliminate re-shooting every other one?
14:23.08brlcadright
14:23.15poolioAh ok, thanks
14:23.43brlcadnot sure if that will be any use to you since the models will be different every iteration
14:23.53brlcadbut shooting the grid certainly will be
14:24.27poolioWell it will be useful in the brief time you generate the voxel data for the original unchanging model
14:26.13brlcadah, true
14:26.25brlcadshooting a 4x4, then a 8x8, ...
14:26.47pooliobut I'd have to modify it to not do that optimization for all the other thousands (millions?) of times it runs on the population
14:27.34brlcadright, they're just going to shoot at a given resolution for a given iteration
14:27.51brlcadand you could then progressively refine that resolution as the fitness gets better
14:28.13poolioI remember you were talking a little while ago about when shooting the rays I'll want to do a "slingshot" type thing to get a vector of the ray and all the points it passes through. does g_qa implement that?
14:34.38poolioone region = one ray?
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14:41.03thing0hey allll
14:49.27brlcadhowdy thing0
14:49.45thing0hey brlcad
14:49.50thing0how you doing?
14:49.58brlcadpoolio: not sure what you mean by slingshot
14:50.11brlcadit does do shoot-through rays
14:50.17pooliobrlcad: Firing a ray and having it return a vector
14:50.19poolioyeah that :)
14:50.27poolioI don't know why the word slingshot came to mind
14:50.34thing0brlcad: did you see my discussion with ``elite01 yesterday?
14:51.04brlcadthing0: probably
14:51.16thing0hehe
14:51.18brlcadwhether it meant anything to me that I'd remember is a different question ;)
14:51.24thing0the bit about http://www.ode.org/
14:51.33thing0BRLCAD should connect with this
14:51.35thing0;)
14:51.38brlcadhm, i might have missed that
14:51.51brlcadyeah, ode's been "on the list"
14:51.59thing0ahh ok
14:52.36brlcadthing0: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html .. "Material Properties" section, third bullet
14:53.01pooliosomehow I feel like what I'm doing isn't very useful ;)
15:00.06pooliobrlcad: Is there some sort of example with shoot-through rays? I'm having some issues trying to understand all of rt_shootray()
15:01.19thing0brlcad: I dunno if Alias still has that format anymore
15:01.27thing0being bought by Autodesk and all
15:03.08brlcadpoolio: are you kidding?  if this works, it will be amazingly useful
15:04.26brlcadbeing able to go from mesh and/or voxel explicit representations to an implicit and/or boundary representation is very useful
15:05.04``Erikthat's some heavy stuff
15:05.15``Erik3d version of computer image recognition, yo
15:05.49brlcadit's a means to heal geometry, compress representations, reduce data, recognize patterns, .. any one of those alone are worthwhile
15:07.19``Erikand advancing the science of that is doctorate worthy shtuff, I'd imagine :)
15:08.20pooliobrlcad: Key words _"if this works"_
15:10.04brlcadeven if you implement the approach fully/correctly and it turns out to be a disaster, that's still good research
15:10.34brlcadfinding out that a technique doesn't work well is just as useful as one that works well
15:10.59brlcadthat said, given the results seen to date, I actually expect this will work very well for some models
15:11.29brlcadimplementing the approach fully/correctly is the trick, and the brunt of the hard work ;)
15:12.57poolioeh, first I have to understand the basics of 3d shapes, then i might have a chance
15:14.14poolioCould you gie me a hand understanding some of this terminology?
15:14.50brlcad~hand poolio
15:14.56pooliohoorah.
15:15.08brlcadhrm, no literal for that one, shucks
15:15.12poolioSo a partition in the contex of a ray is the segment of the ray that intersected a solid?
15:15.22pooliohah
15:16.25brlcad~hand $who is <action> gives $who a hand, then promptly chops it off
15:16.25ibotbrlcad: okay
15:16.30brlcad~hand poolio
15:16.31ibotACTION gives brlcad a hand, then promptly chops it off
15:16.36brlcadheh, oops
15:16.56pooliodangling modifier too
15:19.32thing0hehe
15:21.24brlcad~no, hand $target is <action> gives $target a hand, then promptly chops it off
15:22.19brlcadhm
15:22.24brlcad~hand pooolio
15:22.24ibotACTION gives pooolio a hand, then promptly chops it off
15:22.32brlcadgood enough
15:22.32pooliothanks.
15:22.44thing0~hand thing0
15:22.45ibotACTION gives thing0 a hand, then promptly chops it off
15:22.51thing0yay!
15:23.12brlcad~whaleslap thing0
15:23.12ibotACTION beats thing0 upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh
15:23.24brlcada classic
15:23.48thing0nice
15:24.44pooliobrlcad: so rt_shootray() passes to hit/miss a circularly linked list of "partitions" where each partition represents a segment of the ray vector where it intersected a solid?
15:25.50thing0sleep now me
15:26.11pooliothing0: what time is it?
15:26.19thing02326
15:26.52pooliowow. 12 hours ahead of me. across the globe--->
15:27.33thing0yeah
15:27.55thing036 hours and I'll be on a plane
15:28.05thing0to a place with limited net access
15:28.06thing0so yeah
15:28.16thing0If I am not here for like 3 weeks
15:28.16poolioenjoy?
15:28.23thing0you'll know why
15:28.28thing0yeah it will be awesome
15:28.42thing0I'll be able to work less hours and get paid more
15:28.43thing0hehe
15:29.05thing0but
15:29.06thing0yeah
15:29.09thing0got my lapto
15:29.13thing0got some movies
15:29.19thing0got ut2004
15:29.19pooliofunf un
15:29.26pooliogood times
15:29.27thing0autodesk inventor
15:29.31thing0yeah
15:29.45thing0but
15:29.51thing0I get one week off when I get back
15:29.54thing0so that'll be good
15:29.59thing0alrighty guys
15:30.04thing0i'll cya later
15:30.13thing0hopefully decent enough connection down there
15:30.20thing0otherwise 3 weeks
15:30.21thing0hehe
15:30.23thing0have fun
15:30.25thing0bye
15:30.35brlcadwooo
15:30.37pooliocya, have fun.
15:30.39brlcadcya thing0
15:30.59brlcad~bed thing0
15:31.00ibotACTION tucks thing0 into a warm bed.
15:31.09pooliobrlcad: What matrix math is VJOIN1?
15:31.38brlcadsee include/vmath.h
15:32.38brlcadVJOIN1(A,B,c,D) is A = B + cD
15:33.10brlcadwhere A, B, and D are vectores, c is a constant
15:33.17poolioI saw that, the thing is I don't quite get what it meant in terms of the code.
15:33.37brlcadbasically joins to vectors, scaling one of the vectors
15:33.41brlcads/to/two/
15:34.17brlcadah, in terms of the code it's even easier
15:34.20poolioAh I think I see what it's doing. Calculating the point where the ray entered and exited a certain partition
15:34.38brlcadyep
15:35.03brlcada ray fired from a given point, in a given direction, with a hit along some distance
15:35.03pooliogeez, I need to start using my brain more
15:35.15brlcadVJOIN1 basically gives you that hit point
15:35.46poolioAny suggestions on how to store the ray data? should I just store the linked list of parititons?
15:36.07brlcadB:[a ray fired from a given point], D:[in a given direction], with c:[a hit along some distance]
15:36.11brlcadjust to clarify ;)
15:36.23poolioYes yes, thank you
15:36.49brlcadno suggestions, whatever works for you
15:37.07poolioI think I might just not store it at all
15:37.11brlcadlinked list of partitions should be lightweight enough, maybe store them as an array of linked list
15:37.42brlcad2d array of segments.. basically a list per grid line
15:37.46poolioMeaning I calculate the fitness of a given model one ray at a time
15:38.14poolioThat way the need to store the data is eliminated
15:38.53brlcadthat could work
15:39.47poolioBecause for debugging I'd have the original model(in real life this would theoretically just be voxel data), and the proposed GA model, so I don't really need the rt stuff as I can just check it in mged
15:42.13poolioBut on the downside it'd mean I'd have to write a separate function to shoot rays at the original model
15:42.38poolioAlthough that could be a benefit
15:42.41poolioah many things to think about :)
15:43.40brlcadi'd think you want to shoot at the original model
15:43.56brlcadthat way you can convert arbitrary models to proposed csg solutions
15:44.33brlcadso your same algorithm will work on a volumetric model, or a polygonal model, or even another CSG model
15:45.51poolioWell yes I want to shoot at the original model, I was just thinking how you could have the same function to shoot rays at the original and the models, but I think it's better seperate, as you have said, so that if you want to work with other data it's easy to implement
15:45.53brlcadthat's what I meant about starting with something like a simple CSG sphere as your input model .. you'd raytrace that to stash your list of segments .. then kick off the GA, evaluating via ray-tracing and comparing rays to those stashed
15:46.04poolioYes exactly :)
15:46.06brlcadideally, you'll get back a model that is almost exact
15:46.57poolioThe one thing I'm kind of concerned about is that the way I'd evaluate the fitenss -- ray by ray -- would make a shifted but identical model be completely unfit
15:47.13brlcadthe ray-tracer simply returns segment lists and doesn't care if it's shooting at voxels or triangles or primitives, makes it a nice encapsulation layer
15:47.30poolioyeah, librt++
15:47.33brlcadyes, well position is just as important as shape
15:47.37brlcadso that model is unfit
15:47.57brlcadlikewise for orientation
15:48.06poolioyeah
15:48.42brlcadwhich is why your genotype really will probably need to be a CSG tree solution (which has operators, matrices, and primitive nodes)
15:49.29poolioand what does the term "region" mean in terms of a ray? the area that the ray has passed through?
15:50.01pooliobrlcad: Yeah, I was looking at the tree.c stuff. I'd definitely try to have the genome be something along those lines
15:50.56brlcadanother research paper for you to look over in your copious spare time: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/trunkpacking2005.pdf
15:51.23brlcadit's a much more advanced paper, but is even closer in methodology to what you're trying to do
15:51.31brlcadand its results were spectacular
15:51.49pooliocool
15:52.07brlcadyou could throw simmulated annealing into yours down the road maybe, but I wouldn't worry about that part for now ;)
15:52.19poolioeeeek.
15:52.23brlcadsimilarly, if the math gets too deep, just shelve it
15:53.27brlcadthey basically solved the same problem you were solving but with just one primitive, didn't allow overlap, but did allow arbitrary orientation -- and they fit an input shape tightly
15:53.46brlcadbetter than a human could even, using a GA/SA approach
15:54.33brlcadthey won best paper just a couple years ago at the ACM SPM conference
15:54.40poolioah cool.
15:55.02poolioThe thing I'm worried about with CSG is the boolean operators...I think that could cause some substantial problems/increase in problem space
15:55.18brlcadwhich is why you're starting without operators :)
15:55.23pooliojah.
15:55.53brlcadit does substantially increase the space, but then that's what GAs are notorious for searching for solutions over
15:56.26brlcadit's just a matter of how many evolutions, and is your convergence a local minima
15:56.45brlcadgetting stuck on a local minima is generally a problem (and where SA helps save the day)
15:57.07poolioI'll have to read up on SAs if I get that far, I know absolutely nil about them at this point
15:57.19brlcadthey're probably way beyond the scope of this
15:57.50pooliois brl-cad conform to c89 or can I use // comments?
15:58.15brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_annealing
15:58.33pooliobrlcad: I know where to go to look for SA info, I just don't want to write now :D
15:58.42brlcadk, good man ;)
15:58.51poolio*right
15:58.57pooliogeez. all the code is frying my brain
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15:59.35brlcadyou can probably use // comments for this
15:59.50poolioas it's not really ever going to be integrated into the main codebase
15:59.56brlcadbut i'd still try to minimize their use
16:00.12brlcadno, it will be integrated .. you'll be working off the main codebase even
16:00.23pooliooh woah
16:00.31brlcadthere's just plans to move up to c99 at year's end when we kick over to subversion
16:00.36pooliospeaking of which, is there anywhere in particular you want me to move stuff to?
16:00.45pooliobut for now... cvs?
16:00.50brlcadyes, cvs
16:01.25brlcadthere's // in the code base now .. so I'm sure the compile will fail in some c89 environments
16:02.27brlcadmipspro is one of the last remaining vestiges, though, so i'm not too concerned with it being c99
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16:03.11brlcadhello cadguy
16:03.23brlcadhow's youtall?
16:08.51cadguyWhacked out.  
16:09.14cadguyExterminator arrives in a few hours.  I've got to finish clearing part of the house for them to do their work.
16:09.36brlcadheh
16:09.53brlcadcan't be great if the status begins with an exterminator
16:10.37brlcadhow's the course(s)?
16:11.08brlcadlots of folks asking how you all have been doing
16:11.58cadguyDoing better since we got THOR going realtime.
16:12.05brlcadRalf Muuss sends his regards
16:12.09cadguyUn, make that "interactive"
16:12.19brlcadhad lunch with him, chuck, bob, carol last week
16:12.35cadguyGot a nice note from him.  Working on a reasonable response amidst the office move today.
16:13.02cadguyAh, good.  So you were in on the lunch.  Rolf mentioned it.  He really enjoyed it.
16:13.26brlcadsorry, rolf, can't seem to remember that spelling for some reason
16:13.37cadguynp
16:14.11cadguyAnyone check out the video I sent?
16:14.52brlcadoh yeah
16:15.01brlcadtalked about it for quite a while
16:15.11brlcadthe bit about being from MS was funny
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16:16.32cadguyYeah, that was funny.  I was actually thinking about the THOR vid.
16:18.27brlcadooh
16:18.31brlcadwhen'd you send it?
16:19.15cadguyHmmm.  Friday or saturday.  It's in my account on Xon.
16:19.19brlcadi've not checked e-mail since wednesday .. a trend likely to only continue with the plans to shut things down
16:19.22cadguyFriday I think.
16:19.25brlcadk
16:19.44cadguyShut things down?  You mean *nix or the "great scrub"
16:25.41poolioIs there some sort of builtin function to compare rays?
16:27.20cadguyWhat do you mean by "compare rays"?
16:27.22brlcadhm, not that I'm aware of
16:31.39brlcadpoolio: you're going to have to write that one, and it's very much tailored to what you're doing .. amount matching and amount not matching
16:32.17brlcadcadguy: he means comparing two shotlines against two different models, how similar are the results  (e.g. for comparing two models)
16:34.16pooliothat's gonna be a slight pain.
16:34.19poolioI think I might do that today
16:36.01poolioI'm thinking project both rays onto another ray and do something like a reverse boolean intersection, the union of the differences
16:38.26brlcadyou'll get back evaluated segments, you don't have to do the csg evaluation on the shotlines
16:38.29brlcadit's done for you
16:39.13brlcadso you're really just comparing two segment lists
16:39.19poolioI know that, but I'm talking about doing that on two different shotlines
16:39.42pooliowell yes, but to compare them isn't really straightforward
16:40.01brlcadnot too horrible, a couple for loops ;)
16:40.29brlcadcould even do it with just one methinks
16:41.26brlcadmerge the two lists into just one list of entry and exit points .. count your entries and exits and you'll know where they overlap or where there's a miss
16:42.02poolioAh yeah. smart.
16:44.41brlcadpoolio: more documentation to read probably worth your time is to read the librt manpage
16:44.58brlcadit talks about partitions, segments, shooting rays, the application structure, etc
16:45.11pooliosounds helpful :)
16:45.40brlcadas well as the first two links on http://brlcad.org/example_app.php
17:30.44pooliowoah brlcad, sudden realization
17:30.50pooliotranslation is irrelevant
17:31.03brlcadrelative translation isn't
17:31.11brlcadbut global, yeah
17:31.28brlcadas is scale
17:31.28pooliowhat do you mean relative translation? as in translation of different shapes within the model's tree?
17:32.15poolioyeah true
17:32.21brlcade.g. the translation of two spheres being unioned together .. their position relative to each other matters a lot, but where they're positioned in 3-space won't necessarily if you set up matching grids
17:32.48poolioyeah because i'm using AABB they will be the same wherever they are (globally)
17:33.20brlcadso long as you shoot adaptive to the scale/position of the AABB, and not global size (like fixed 1mm grid)
17:33.41poolioyeah
17:34.46poolioso in terms of randomly creating a population, you don't care where it is, you just want all the shapes to intersect an arbitrary bounding box
17:35.44pooliowell maybe not arbitrary, maybe the first shape in the hierarchy or something
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18:28.11poolioah nooooo. nothing like segfaults.
18:33.31``ErikI'd much rather have a sig11 than a logic bug :)
18:33.42``Erikgdb and efence make seggies and bus faults easy to track
18:33.49poolioI found the issue
18:35.13poolioIs there a way to copy the partition passed to a_hit ?
18:35.17pooliomemcpy?
18:38.03``Erikum, that'd be a way, but there're pointers that may be deallocated, soooo if you're expecting it to be there out of scope (like if you're threaded), it could be very bad
18:38.16poolioYeah, I am :(
18:38.36``ErikI don't recall seeing any kinda partition copy function... might be a good patch unless brlcad can think of an alternative
18:38.36poolioBasically I'm trying to store a partition from a previous ray that I know will have been already calculated, and then compare that ray to future rays
18:39.08poolioWell an alternative for me would be to copy the values that I need into a different data structure
18:39.11pooliowhich might be smarter anyway
18:39.16``Erik(now the region pointers should exist until you free the rtip, ... but *shrug*)
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18:59.08pooliobrlcad: any way to duplicate a partititon? I'm trying to test out my ray comparison function
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19:08.34brlcadpoolio: hmm, pretty simple to iterate over it and manually create a copy, but .. i'm not sure you even need to do that
19:09.12brlcadi believe for a given ray-trace application that the partition lists may be all stored in the application structure
19:13.45pooliobrlcad: is it the "a_FINAL_Part_hdp" ?
19:15.15brlcadI think
19:15.28brlcadit's been a long while since I looked ath what is stashed in there
19:15.31poolioand the index values are the # ray / total rays?
19:15.42brlcadindex values?
19:15.50brlcadit's a bu_list
19:15.57poolioof parititions?
19:17.01brlcadyeah
19:17.40brlcadbu_lists are "inverted" .. you add bu_list as the first element to any structure and it gives you a linked list of that structure
19:18.25poolioyeah I was just reading the bu.h header about them because I'll probably use one to store the data
19:18.36pooliobut if I can figure out the a_final_part_hdp stuff than there's no need in duplicating it
19:18.53brlcadthat's why a_Final_Part_hdp is a "head pointer", you can iterate over head pointers like: for( BU_LIST_FOR( pp, partition, (struct bu_list *)PartHeadp ) ) { ... }
19:19.39brlcadin your comparison function, have it print out the contents of the application pointer's a_Final_Part_hdp using a for loop like that
19:19.46poolioyeah, g_qa used BU_LISTs for storing region groups
19:20.08pooliowell, I'm just going to print out the total linear difference
19:20.09brlcadbu_lists are used everywhere
19:20.44brlcadratio of right to wrong
19:21.06brlcadweighted by absolute length perhaps
19:22.34pooliowell yeah, this is mainly to see if the comparison is working, not the finalized part of the fitness function
19:24.53brlcadwhadayaknow .. there is a macro for copying partitions, RT_DUP_PT
19:25.55pooliohoorah.
19:25.55brlcadinclude/raytrace.h has the details
19:25.56pooliothanks
19:26.20brlcadbut like I said, I'm really not sure you even need to
19:27.44poolioalso -- shouldn't  a_Final_Part_hdp be a linked list of linked lists(partitions for each ray)?
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19:31.13poolioneed to what?
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19:31.16brlcada_Final might just be the last ray .. would have to debug/test to see
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19:34.11pooliobrlcad: I might just abandon the pursuit of doing all the ray comparison in hit() and move it to plane_worker where the individual rays are shot
19:35.32poolioand just pass back an array of pt_inhit and pt_outhits
19:35.52brlcadshould/could work either way ;)
19:35.58brlcadwhatever works out easiest for ya
19:36.33poolioyeah I suppose. It's just segfaulting cause of memory issues and I think half the issue was I started coding before I understood the data structures
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19:38.28poolioALso, it seems like there is a lot of overhead for features I don't need in librt. Is it worth rewriting a lot of code and trying to get it faster or should I just try to get it working first?
19:46.16brlcadtry to get it working first
19:53.06akrealhello brlcad!
19:53.20brlcadhowdy akreal
19:55.04akreali'm a student and i hope to do some cad practice with BRL-CAD, maybe you remember me ;)
19:55.14akrealare there any jobs now?
19:57.09brlcadakreal: I certainly remember your nick, though not so much what we were talkinga bout
19:58.00akrealbrlcad: yes, it is so
19:58.47brlcadso what have you been up to?
20:04.19akrealyou said the most interesting question was BREP objects, i've got math book with some formulas about it, but i'm not sure that i'm able to put them to BRL-CAD code
20:04.43akreali'm a looser in production C-coding
20:06.11brlcadyou saw the ideas page?
20:07.14akrealyes, i read it some times
20:08.00brlcadanything catch your interest?
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20:08.13brlcadit's had a few items added since too, though nothing small
20:11.48akrealcould you give me URL? i can't find it
20:14.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: remove hard-coded output filename
20:15.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: remove hard-coded output filename
20:16.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/nmain.cpp: pass output file on command line and remove hard-coded output file
20:17.16brlcadakreal: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
20:18.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: sort the hits (need to look into this further); remove some debugging output
20:20.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: add some stupid simple debugging capability to openNURBS
20:21.42brlcadttk, that's the new theming stuff I couldn't remember
20:23.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_nurbscurve.h opennurbs_nurbscurve.cpp): fix NumIntersectionsWith to properly override virtual method from ON_Curve
20:24.12pooliobrlcad: I've utterly failed at merging two strings of numbers. :P
20:24.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_curve.cpp opennurbs_bezier.cpp): add some debugging statements; trying to find out why the trimming is not working properly
20:25.49brlcadpoolio: hehe
20:26.13poolioAll the logic checks out in my brain, but the code segfaults.
20:27.43brlcadwhere does it segfault?
20:27.55brlcaddon't fear the gdb ;)
20:28.11poolioyeah yeah. i'm more of a fan of printf debugging though
20:29.07brlcadthat's one of the best habits to break ;)
20:29.41brlcadbecoming intimately familiar with your debugger will save you days of your life, though
20:38.38akrealbrlcad: i checked the ideas list and saw it'd growed. geometry processing is interested me most, and volume (etc.) routins looks for me more suitable than others
20:39.26akrealits's because i understand what's it about... but maybe you could suggest smth better for newbe?
20:39.58brlcadit's really hard to say without knowing what you're capable of, what your experience is
20:40.25brlcadmaybe try working on a little patch or two, or fix a bug.. see how far you get
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20:41.27akrealfixing bug looks like nice thing to start
20:42.00akreali know it helps a lot to get into the codebase :)
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22:25.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/autogen.sh: report the directory when we can't find configure.ac
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070619

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070619

01:35.20*** join/#brlcad fgleich (n=fgleich@168-103-124-234.albq.qwest.net)
02:20.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177680051.dsl.bell.ca)
02:23.30IriX64this should say Automagically preparing build ...
02:23.50IriX64just came to see if .2 is out yet?
02:33.16brlcadnot quite yet
02:33.21brlcadkeep an eye on TODO
02:33.26brlcadthat has the releast stoppers in it
02:34.47IriX64thank you
02:35.41brlcadi've not seen the first issue in a couple weeks so it might be gone, but the second (bezier) needs to be fixed
02:45.29IriX64beyond my meager talents, couple more cute pix on the blog irix32 blog
02:46.57IriX64forgot to enable the gui faceplate mode, ahh well
02:56.30IriX64facelate gui mode uploaded
04:22.22*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
04:22.22*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
04:22.43pooliosage - shape aggregating genetic engine
04:23.15pooliosewage!
04:23.21poolioshape evolution with a genetic engine
04:23.29poolioI like that one
04:23.36brlcadheh
04:24.46pooliobrlcad: any favorite names though ;)
04:26.03poolioman. If I was a user and had to make some call to sewage_* I'd chuckle.
04:26.30poolioI could name all the functions arbitrarily
04:26.41pooliosewage_water, sewage_pipe, sewage_raw, etc...
04:27.22yukonbobsewage_backup, sewage_make, sewage_cleanup
04:27.40fgleichum....
04:27.47poolioit could happen...
04:30.33brlcadhmm.. etoi
04:30.43brlcadexplicit to implicit
04:31.05poolioreminds me too much of atoi
04:31.23poolioDoesn't have the same name as sewage.
04:31.26poolios/name/ring
04:32.30brlcadsomething a little less filthy perhaps :)
04:33.31brlcadbetoiga => ben's explicit to implicit genetic algorithm
04:34.41pooliokind of like jove
04:34.50pooliogeez, naming stuff is hard.
04:35.42yukonbobswis (Swis Is Not Sewage)
04:35.44brlcadand nirt => natalie's interactive ray-tracer
04:35.52yukonbober...sins
04:36.08poolioyukonbob: Haha. we can be like Gnu :)
04:37.25yukonbob:/   ?what does this code do anyway
04:37.44poolioI'm not sure. Something about genetic algorithms and shapes I think
04:37.50brlcadheh
04:38.16yukonbobyagafs (yet another genetic algorithm for shapes)
04:38.41pooliobogart
04:38.43brlcadthere aren't that many to warrant yet another just quite yet ;)
04:38.47yukonbob(because there are _so_ many around)
04:38.50yukonbobheh
04:39.18yukonbobfomgafs (first of many...)
04:41.05brlcadthe tool takes a given model (ideally something like voxelized or polygonal data) and it searches for ways to match that shape using primitives and CSG operations .. so in effect, converts a model to an implicit representation (from whatever it was) using a genetic algorithm (which is just a fancy name for the way it searches for the matching shapes)
04:41.50pooliobites: ben's implicit to explicit shapeamalizer
04:42.40yukonbobdeconstructor
04:43.21brlcadtaflttr -- takes a f'ing long time to run ;)
04:43.29pooliothat's for sure
04:44.04fgleichYAY !
04:44.13fgleichIt's done
04:44.40brlcadyay for fgleich (just don't ask him to name the tool) ;)
04:44.48pooliopurty: purty undoes ray tracing yay
04:45.18poolios/yay/yourself
04:45.19pooliohaha
04:47.14pooliobuses: ben's unpredictable shape evolution software
04:47.16brlcadshaper => shape heuristic analysis pattern enhancement recognizer
04:47.23pooliogeez
04:47.25pooliobig words
04:48.30fgleichIt's taking as long to install as it did to compile
04:48.34fgleichlol
04:48.39fgleichalmost
04:49.01brlcadlot of tools, libraries, and data
04:49.13fgleichyep
04:49.20fgleichmake benchmark ?
04:49.31brlcaddid you build optimized?
04:50.36fgleichno
04:51.00pooliouh oh. grab a cup of coffee :)
04:51.24fgleichis that a problem ?
04:51.29pooliobrlcad: I'm off for the night. I'll be back on in a couple of hours to code, or maybe just spend all day picking a name ;)
04:51.40brlcadfgleich: no, not a problem -- but the performance wont' be comparable
04:51.53brlcadpoolio: coolio
04:52.32fgleichI might rebuild it later with that enabled
04:52.33brlcadbeset => ben's evolutionary shape extraction tool
04:52.52brlcadohh, i like that
04:53.03brlcad~dict beset
04:53.26brlcadto attack on all sides, quite appropriate
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11:30.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: redefine min and max in C++ environment
11:40.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (src/librt/g_brep.cpp include/opennurbs_ext.h): VC++ 6.0 adaptions: missing return statement, parent class, etc.
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12:26.42poolio_mornin
12:42.57elite01good day
12:52.05poolio_how are you kin dsir?
12:53.18elite01i'm fine, thanks
12:53.33elite01you too?
12:59.17poolio_dandy.
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13:23.46poolio_wow guys. browsing the cvs source tree: src/conv has successive folders "jack" and "off"
13:27.57``Erikyeah
13:27.59``Erikwe're cool like that
13:32.21poolio_wtf. my fan has some sort of magnet in it and when I set it next to my monitor my monitor goes crazy
13:41.42Laniakeapoolio_: does it go crazy also when the fan is not on?
13:42.03Laniakea``Erik: that's cool
13:47.29poolio_Laniakea: Just when the fan is on, so I guess it's not a magnet. I moved it further away and now all is well.
13:47.52Laniakeapoolio_: fans usually contain a squirrel cage asynchronous motor, that's the magnetic field from the motor
13:49.26poolio_wow. I need to learn some electronics :)
13:49.55poolio_The bearing is also messed up and it doesn't spin true
14:33.36pooliouh oh. I broke code that is not mine.
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16:15.43thing013 hours till plane ride
16:15.45thing0yay!
16:15.48thing0beb
16:15.51thing0brb
16:15.53*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-153-230.dyn.iinet.net.au)
16:29.04*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
16:48.42poolioI forgot I was on a dual core processor and just wasted an hour debugging crap trying to figure out why there was a race condition
16:48.48pooliod'oh.
16:53.09pooliobrlcad: do you have any punching bags in the office?
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17:25.41thing0hey
17:34.28pooliohello mr. thing0
17:34.40thing0hello poolio
17:34.55thing0I fell asleep when you and brlcad were discussing stuff yesterday
17:34.56thing0;)
17:37.18poolionames?
17:37.34poolioI think brlcad settled on beset. I'm personally a fan of sewage although that will never make it into CVS :P
17:38.03thing0ahh
17:40.22thing0ok
17:40.25thing0me sleep now
17:40.32thing0gotta be on a plane in like 11 hours
17:40.33thing0hehe
17:40.51thing0got a training course in 7 hours
17:40.52thing0argh
17:41.01thing0cya poolio
17:43.09pooliocya
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18:00.28pooliobrlcad: if you ever come back I have a question
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19:12.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix arc generation bug: openNURBS does not interpret "wrapping" angles
19:15.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: fix plot routine to now show edge curves better (still needs refinement, e.g. dynamic sampling)
19:17.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: debug and fix bezier clipping (case c) - still needs to be cleaned up and more fully debugged
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19:22.04IriX64brlcad, what the christ is a bezier?   :)
19:23.31archivista curve through control points
19:23.51IriX64and this code is going to do that
19:25.12IriX64are you all mathematitions and computer scientists here?
19:27.28IriX64cant even spell it sigh
19:27.52archivistI dont like to pigeon hole myself
19:28.09IriX64life does that for you :)
19:28.26archivistno it doesnt
19:28.42IriX64waits for an explanation
19:29.05archivistI move from programming to electronics to mechanical depends whats needed
19:29.27IriX64ah i see if you don't like the pigeon hole your in study for another ?
19:30.26IriX64must needs study another dicipline if you go about doing that
19:31.06archivistself study/ own library
19:31.16IriX64similar here
19:32.51poolioand here :)
19:33.07IriX64waves...hey poolio
19:33.30IriX64got you name chosen
19:34.03poolionot really. Wasted around 4 hours debugging some of my own god-awful code though.
19:34.23IriX64not a waste if you got it working :)
19:36.14poolioGot it working but now I'm stuck and need someone who knows certain things. *achem* brlcad
19:36.41IriX64poke him with a pointy stick :)
19:37.29pooliowait. I thought I fixed it. Why is it still segfaulting?
19:37.43IriX64blame the 6502 ;)
19:38.06archivisthey the 6502 is the original risc micro
19:38.13pooliobrlcad: ahoy!
19:39.07brlcadhowdy howdy
19:40.19brlcadI didn't settle on beset, you welcome to keep brainstorming something else .. just not sewage :)
19:40.49pooliomannnnnnn
19:40.59pooliobeset was cool though
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19:43.10IriX64archivist: the 6502 was what usually had to be changed in the atari 400 :)
19:47.09pooliobrlcad: get my /msg?
19:48.27brlcadah, yes -- you can
19:49.02brlcadyou can reuse the rtip's iirc, but you'll need separate application structures
19:52.06poolioMight you know how? The way I was thinking about doing it was just recreating rtip
19:52.20poolioand re-running rt_prep_parallel
19:53.18brlcadthere is a routine for duplicating rtip's too
19:54.12poolioAlso, in g_qa it has a new application structure for evert time the object is raytraced, is that the way it works? ie you can't re-use an application structure and change the ray locations?
19:54.34poolioSo duplicate the rtip after reading the database but before getting the object tree?
19:54.55brlcader, that's not quite what I meant
19:55.43brlcada single application structure is used for shooting all the rays
19:55.57poolioSorry for all the stupid questions, I'm just trying to learn my way around
19:55.58brlcadyou keep updating the a_ray entry
19:56.43brlcadwhat you'll probably want to do is get a dbip
19:56.54brlcadwith basically is a handle on the .g
19:56.57poolioOk, but if you change the number of rays, can you still use the same applicaton struct?
19:57.17brlcadthen for each model you want, extract an rtip from the dbip (using rt_new_rti(dbip))
19:57.27poolioah okay
19:57.57brlcadthen do an rt_gettree(rtip, "whatever object") to load/prep that object
19:58.05brlcadsorry, just load
19:58.08pooliodo I need to run rt_prep_parallel?
19:58.12brlcadyou'll need to run rt_prep to prep it
19:58.18poolioalright cool, thanks
19:58.25brlcadyeah, rt_prep_parallel will work too
19:58.46brlcadtake a look at g_transfer in src/gtools
19:58.52brlcadit does something very similar
19:58.55brlcadiirc
19:59.02poolioI'm trying to finish the csg->voxel-like format and ray comparison for today, it's being a pain though. and i forgot i had 2 processors so ...
19:59.09pooliook
20:00.33brlcadso you still thinking up a name?  I'd like to get you working off cvs as soon as possible
20:03.21poolioI haven't been thinking much about it, and my code is so awful I don't want to commmit it yet :)
20:04.39brlcadwhich is all the more reason why you need to be exposing yourself more ;)
20:04.44pooliooh boy.
20:04.51brlcadopen source is all about being open through and through ;)
20:04.57poolioI'm fine with beset, I forget what it stood for but the definition fits the program
20:05.26poolioEjxpose yourself so people will clean you up :)
20:05.53brlcadnah, everyone wants the tools and wants to see them improve
20:06.01brlcaddevelopment "cruft" is natural
20:06.09brlcadit's never "done", never "perfect"
20:06.32poolioYeah, which is why they'll clean you up
20:06.44pooliowell...i suppose
20:07.28poolioI think I'm going to just rewrite this csg->voxel/ray comparison stuff again from scratch. Right now I have just slimmed down the g_qa tool and so the structure no longer fits the program
20:07.49poolioalso: should I try to keep it multithreaded?
20:08.09pooliowell no...parallel
20:09.23brlcadyeah, try hard to keep it parallel
20:09.48brlcadthat'll let me test your tool on considerably faster machines
20:10.03pooliook. that's what messed up my entire morning, I implemented a link list not with BU_LIST and didnt use and semaphores to lock it down and a race condition developed and it kept randomly segfaulting
20:11.01brlcadfun :)
20:12.41poolioalright, so I'm gonna do a major refactoring/rewrite starting now and hopefully it'll all work out :)
20:16.21IriX64be sure to put a heatsink on the 6502 ;)
20:17.22poolioNo heatsink neccesary, it's bathing in mineral oil.
20:17.39IriX64heh towel dry then :)
20:29.29IriX64fgleich: howd you make out with your build?
20:40.44fgleichIriX64: It built fine after I installed all the depends
20:41.14IriX64now you can do that job you were waiting to do :)
20:41.16fgleichtrying to figure out what it needed took a little head scratching
20:41.47IriX64im lucky just type autogen and do what it says ;)
20:42.04IriX64err +.sh
20:42.26fgleichI did that too
20:43.02fgleichbut, some X stuff was missing and it errored out til I installed what it needed
20:44.00IriX64i see
20:45.56fgleichhave you tried opening up the manual from the help menu command ?
20:46.22fgleichI guess the manual is a seperate download ?
20:46.45fgleichbrb
20:49.53fgleichback
20:52.02fgleichAre there some environmental things to set, like BRLCADHOME ?
20:57.00IriX64the manual is in pdf format too at http://brlcad.org
20:57.43IriX64so are the tutorials (a must)
20:59.23IriX64btw what version are we talking?
21:01.28brlcadfgleich: no, there aren't any environment variables to set if you installed it correctly
21:03.35brlcadfgleich: the help menu just tries to invoke a web browser on the html docs in the share folder -- you can open them directly too
21:04.09IriX64and theres always the man pages flgeich
21:04.19brlcadthey should be in /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.0/html/
21:04.29brlcadyeah, good point
21:04.32brlcadloads of man pages
21:06.18fgleichok thanks :)
21:07.20IriX64is it still true that if all else fails they can ask in the channel (if they have patience) brlcad?
21:07.49pooliobrlcad: Do I need to use the register keyword in my code? Don't most compilers choose what they want to put in the register and ignore register keywords nowadays?
21:08.49brlcadIriX64: of course, always
21:09.02IriX64there you go fgleich
21:10.27brlcadpoolio: they've always just been hints to the compilers
21:10.46brlcadmost all of the popular modern compilers still take those hints into account
21:10.58pooliooh alright
21:11.07brlcadyou don't have to use them, it's really just annotating variables that are repeatedly/frequently used
21:17.38fgleichthanks IriX64
21:17.50IriX64welcome
21:35.31IriX64elite01: are you the elite01 I know from Efnet (me as warl0ck) ?
21:35.57elite01IriX64, don't think so
21:36.14IriX64sorry same nick so i wondered
21:36.17elite01i'm not at efnet
21:36.30IriX64haven't been there for over two years
21:36.45elite01ah
21:37.12elite01i don't remember ever having been there
21:37.15IriX64you were building brlcad last time i saw you, get it to go?
21:38.00IriX64or were you using it?
21:38.19elite01hmm i once had some trouble building 7.10
21:38.30IriX64must be it
21:38.33elite01but i was using 7.8 before
21:39.09IriX64i'm still playing with both, sent my yacht out to manufactur last week :P
21:39.40elite01whoa :)
21:40.03IriX64now i have to writew some code to pay for it :)
21:40.10IriX64err write
21:41.00elite01hehe
21:41.39IriX64back to work, thanks for the break and sorry about the mistaken identity
21:41.47elite01nah no problem
21:41.54IriX64:)
21:42.55*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-206-147.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:45.36*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-157-197-75.range81-157.btcentralplus.com)
21:53.27IriX64urff my systems taken a hit somewhere along the way, both bwish and mged fail to link with tons of undefined xfunctions references
21:53.59elite01IriX64, ouch
21:54.03IriX64but 7.8.4 links, cant figure this out
21:54.11IriX64yeah
21:55.21IriX64prefer 7.8.4 do you
21:55.39elite01nah i generally prefer newer versions
21:55.42elite01if they work :)
21:56.28elite01psst - what's the price?
21:57.11IriX64your promise that you never mention me
21:57.48elite01do i look like i would?
21:58.05brlcadi think IriX64's plan is to just keep complaining about 7.10 until it magically works for him
21:58.23elite01IriX64, there was a traitor among us
21:58.49IriX64did *I mention 7.10
21:58.55elite01brlcad, well, if it works, i hereby complaina about 7.10
21:59.09IriX64now magic should happen ?
21:59.13brlcadarbitrarily changing the version string in configure.ac doesn't make a 7.8.8 real
21:59.18elite01in thy name of jah!
22:00.14elite01now, it's what i'd call tomorrow a minute ago
22:00.23IriX64still going though
22:00.28brlcadelite01: I'm more than happy to investigate and fix any build system problems -- just nobody has provided a failure report that can be looked into
22:00.31IriX64the compile i mean
22:00.52IriX64it's *not your problem brlcad
22:01.10elite01i think 7.10 built fine here once
22:01.15IriX64see
22:01.40IriX64what system elite01?
22:02.07elite01fedora
22:02.27IriX64sorta the same i guess unix is unix
22:02.33IriX64well sorta
22:02.47elite01what've you got? mac os? :D
22:03.04IriX64cray-ymp :)
22:03.10IriX64doubles as a furnace
22:03.46elite01although i have no idea which model ymp is - cray does sound scary :)
22:04.03elite01they're building amd64 clusters now, aren't they?
22:04.04IriX64multi processor
22:04.16IriX64dunno don't keep up
22:04.40elite01i've sure got smp as well :)
22:05.09IriX64heh i have a z80 and am trying to build obn cp/m
22:05.15IriX64on too
22:05.41elite01and i thought freedos was exotic
22:06.42IriX64don't want to abandon 7.10 but may have no choice
22:07.32elite01hm
22:07.44IriX64brlcad you say you need a report, I ask now is there a chance ill have a proper tkWinDefault.h file any time soon?
22:08.20brlcadIriX64: if it doesn't build, I usually care, even if the platform is the cause .. I've put a lot of effort towards making the build flexible yet functional for as wide a set of environments as possible, given the package complexity
22:08.23elite01well, i'd rather leave if i don't want to be late tomorrow
22:08.33elite01see you soon
22:08.41IriX64see you elite01
22:09.17IriX64brlcad I know its not you people im worried about,for instance mention cygwin to the x11 people what will happen?
22:11.14IriX64i'm forcing a build right now, but whats the point bwish and mged won't function properly becuase of those undefines in them
22:12.03IriX64force build is so the rest of the exes will be produced.
22:13.25brlcadyeah, but at this point, I don't even have the faintest idea why it does or does not work
22:13.46brlcadi've only heard random ramblings of various things you do and try, no sense of what actually went wrong _first_
22:13.59brlcadto determine what needs to be fixed/changed, if anything
22:27.15IriX64ill try again and pastebin the error
22:32.56IriX64will take a while have to reconfigure with different cflags and remake
22:35.18brlcadand it needs to be with a pristine copy
22:35.33brlcadno modifications, no flags, nothing
22:35.49IriX64not even bsd i like that code line
22:35.52brlcadfrom cvs head preferably so changes can be tested
22:36.03IriX64all right ill play
22:36.49brlcadit really should work as just ./configure && make   to at least give you a successful compile and console-mode mged
22:37.00IriX64i know
22:37.27IriX64logged in
22:58.05IriX64sigh..checking out, how, i never checked in :)
23:23.03IriX64if i dont edit this thing winsock.h is going to conflict with socket.h, sure you don't want any editing?
23:26.28IriX64put a dnl in front of winsock.h
23:26.55IriX64touched nothing else
23:30.46IriX64ill paste the ./configure summary
23:33.58brlcadno editing
23:34.04IriX64right
23:34.16brlcadthat's where things start getting screwy -- if there's a conflict, it needs to be fixed
23:34.45IriX64whoa wait you mean winsock?
23:34.51brlcadof course
23:36.25IriX64I... didn't think you would be interested in that one, most systems don't have both
23:36.44IriX64but ill paste that error too
23:41.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/577579    1st problem (says to report it to you :))
23:45.10brlcadokay, that there is just a warning and benign, but thanks for pointing it out .. i'm more concerned with errors -- where it actually stops compiling
23:45.15IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/577586  summary. should i start make?
23:45.51brlcadsure
23:46.51IriX64started itll take a bit but the winsock error is first to be hit
23:56.55IriX64forgot about tkwindefault.h   http://www.pastebin.ca/577602
23:57.11IriX64shall i apply my patch and continue?
23:58.30IriX64patch I use is simply to use tkUnixDefault.h, seems to keep it happy
23:58.54IriX64that file is asked for in default.h in generic if you want to see it
23:59.56brlcadno, just hold it there and i'll poke
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070620

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070620

00:00.05IriX64all right
00:00.29brlcadmaybe keep this dir off to the side so that we can continue this over a few days .. but leaving it alone so we can get it to build cleanly
00:01.00IriX64ill do that thanks for tthe help, ill just switch back to 7.8.4 for a few days
00:15.44IriX64this is the kind of summary I prefer, i changed the version number cause i did a little playing with the code rot comes to mind and some other stuff like the raytrace control panel. http://www.pastebin.ca/577656
00:17.31IriX64angle distance cursor is neat too
00:22.00IriX64brlcad: what's your cleanest line of code, I'm happy the bsd but if you suggest cleaner i'll use it.
00:22.11IriX64s/if/the
00:22.21IriX64err with
00:23.21IriX64supposed to isn't it?
00:23.49IriX64i start mine from dos :P
00:23.55yukonbobit's supposed to use DISPLAY to know which (if any) X display to use...
00:24.15yukonbob(that's the typical X client action).
00:24.23IriX64but it picks up the default that xterm is running on, proper behaviour
00:24.48yukonbobnot if it's reset... ie: export DISPLAY=''; mged
00:25.04yukonbobdoes same from a console completely unrelated to X as well...
00:25.18IriX64my system might be different (ie cygwin)
00:25.56yukonbobdo you have xeyes installed?
00:26.06IriX64think so wait
00:26.14yukonbobif so, try: export DISPLAY=''; xeyes
00:26.49yukonbobor better: env DISPLAY='' xeyes
00:26.59yukonbob(won't have to reset DISPLAY variable)
00:27.16IriX64from an xterm prompt or console prompt?
00:27.26yukonbobxterm
00:27.37IriX64lemme fire x up
00:27.38yukonbobjust try 'xeyes' first
00:27.57yukonbobyou should get a pair of googley eyes following your mouse cursor...
00:28.01yukonbob^C to get rid of them.
00:28.40IriX64got them
00:28.52IriX64gone
00:29.03yukonbobnow try w/ the "env DISPLAY='' xeyes"
00:29.14yukonbob(no double-quotes)
00:30.16IriX64got a >
00:30.37yukonbobenv DISPLAY='' xeyes
00:30.49IriX64how do i get out of it, quit:)
00:30.56yukonbobprolly ^D
00:31.05yukonbobenv DISPLAY='' xeyes
00:31.12yukonbob^---two single quotes
00:31.21yukonbob(after DISPLAY=)
00:31.40IriX64cant open display, your right
00:31.51yukonbobright... that's typical behaviour
00:32.35IriX64thanks
00:32.58IriX64learned i'm always wrong :P
00:34.27yukonbobor you learned you can always get smarter :)
00:35.49IriX64that too :)
00:36.17IriX64the seed of smartness though is hard to plant
00:39.30IriX64so your saying theres a bug in mged yukonbob?
00:41.13IriX64what happens if you set DISPLAY to 127.0.0.1:0.0 ?
00:41.52yukonbobI'd say when it tries to connect to servers that I don't specify, that's bad policy
00:42.20IriX64it assumes you want a display window, thats its function
00:42.28yukonbobIf I'm working on a super-secret fembot from a remote computer, but the display comes up on my work computer for my co-workers to see, that'd be embarassing
00:42.59IriX64uses a default not entirely wrong behaviour
00:43.06yukonbob"assuming" isn't good policy.
00:43.20yukonbobif the DISPLAY="", their is no default display
00:43.37IriX64but one was programmed in
00:44.10yukonbobit may loop through a pre-compiled list of likely possibilities, but I'd say that's bad policy.
00:44.42IriX64brlcad said to somebody today no environment variables are neccessary if installed correctly
00:45.14yukonbobDISPLAY can be depended on in an X environment though --- otherwise X clients just won't work ;)
00:45.29IriX64:)
00:46.37yukonbobbrlcad probably meant that there are no special environment variables that need to be set 'by hand'.
00:46.45IriX64love my system, did all that while compiling brlcad and ripping cassette tape.
00:46.58IriX64your probably right
00:48.44fgleichyou have to add the bin to your PATH, right ?
00:48.59IriX64yes
00:49.04yukonbobor put the bin in a path that's already set ;)
00:49.07IriX64brlcad/bin
00:49.12IriX64:)
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01:01.11IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcad     added some stuff, feel free to spread that url around
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01:41.27IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/577788   a benchmark with optimized on debug off
01:52.56IriX64well bu_bomb() works... terra.g is using a null pointer somewhere caught by bu_ckmag
01:53.06IriX64in 7.8
02:06.18yukonbobcan anybody tell me why when I make (for example) a vertical post (in post rcc  0 0 0 0 0 100 1) and a wire joining  top of post to ground (in wire rcc 0 0 100 100 0 0 0.1), the "wire" doesn't seem to reflect the angle it should be at, and maybe not even the length? (I'm know it's going to be operator error, but I don't know what that error is yet ;)
02:11.55IriX64are you saying i'm dumb as a post :P
02:21.49IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    brlcad albumn, my first "real one"   :)
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02:35.02IriX64bsod lovely
02:36.06IriX64the blog has one with the work environment enabled, adc grid axes indicators faceplate etc
03:29.36pooliomoore late night coding 8)
05:09.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/doc/cvs.txt: CVS moved from cvs.sf.net to brlcad.cvs.sf.net
05:09.22poolioet voila :)
05:10.08brlcadwoot
05:10.14brlcad~poolio++
05:10.43poolioso should I just add a new folder and the one file I'm working off of to src/gtools too?
05:11.24brlcadsure
05:18.06pooliois there a reason it's u,v,i axis and not x,y,z?
05:20.22brlcadwhat are you referring to?
05:20.31poolioq_ga mainly
05:21.41brlcadprobably no "strong reason" other than thinking of the grid being fired as a u,v parameter space instead of just coordiantes in 3-space
05:21.43poolioand I'm guessing I need to include the massive copyright headers I hate?
05:22.04brlcadyep, they're boilerplate
05:22.12brlcadyou can auto-add them, however, using a script
05:22.21brlcadsh/template.sh lgpl yourfile.c
05:22.48brlcadcan be used to stub empty files or add header/footers to existing files
05:25.32poolioand is there a name I should use for the shape I'm trying to match? I've been just calling it the model but that's not at all what it is
05:28.36brlcadit is "a model"
05:29.01brlcadjust not "the model" that you're trying to generate
05:29.11poolioso we're trying to match a csg population to the model?
05:29.48brlcadmaybe call it the source or the source pattern or the reference shape, etc
05:30.11poolioI'll just reference it as the source model for now
05:30.15pooliowait no
05:30.25pooliojust plain source...haha
05:43.43poolioalright, i'm gonna commit me code, cya in the mornin.
05:44.16brlcadwon't be available much of tomorrow day-time, but back in the afternoon/evening
05:44.40poolioalright, I think I'm pretty much know what I'll be doing, so hopefully I'll have progress to show you then. ta ta.
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05:55.06pooliodamn vim! I comcommited a .swp file....
05:55.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: initial base for _beset_: ben's evolutionary shape extraction tool
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13:36.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if we're building with cygwin, tk wants access to headers in the tk/win directory, so add it to the cppflags header search paths
13:36.54brlcadIriX64: cvs update configure.ac && ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make
13:53.42pooliomornin brlcad  :)
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13:58.52brlcadmornin' poolio
13:59.39poolioI committed beset last night :)
14:00.21pooliois the coding style ok? I tried to mirror the way g_qa was formatted
14:00.30poolioand from the HACKING document
14:47.03pooliobrlcad: does BU_LIST manage its own cleanup?
14:54.55brlcaderm, how would they do that?
14:55.09brlcadthey only do what the code you write makes them do
14:55.09poolioI haven't a clue, but in g_qa the linked lists never get free'd
14:55.41brlcadah, yeah .. just bad form from the author (shame on lee)
14:55.55brlcadhe's relying on exit to free resources since it's not reused
14:55.57pooliook, was wondering if C magically had garbage collection :)
14:56.17brlcadit magically collects when the program terminates ;)
14:56.31pooliowell, as long as it thinks the resource won't be reused
14:56.58brlcadright, and for that tool it's pretty much guaranteed .. as are a lot of the command-line tools that perform some specific action
14:57.31brlcadyour tool, however, is a little different in that it has a run loop that needs to iterate through samples over and over, potentially for a very long time
14:57.48brlcadg_qa should free it's stuff, don't let that be an example/excuse ;)
14:57.51brlcadshame on lee :)
14:57.58poolioalrighty
14:58.22poolioIf I can get a version of beset to work on say... a single primitive I'd probably want to do a lot of optimizing
14:59.01brlcadthat will probably be the time to make sure multithreading works, maybe run a sanity profile
14:59.21pooliowhat's up with the second argument to bu_malloc and bu_free ?
14:59.24brlcadvalgrind for memory
14:59.36poolioheh, I love valgrind
14:59.48poolioalso: I can test multithreading on my system, i have 2 cores
14:59.52brlcadthe second argument is a label
15:00.02pooliobut is there a point to that label, and does it have to be unique?
15:00.33brlcadlibbu has it's own memory protections and debugging facilities.. you add those labels and with certain flags enabled, you can see a allocation trace where you can find your allocations via those labels
15:00.48poolioalright so it's mainly for debugging?
15:00.54brlcadentirely for debugging
15:01.15brlcadbut it should just be something sensible, and the free label should pair up with the alloc label
15:01.28poolioalright
15:02.32brlcadand in case you hadn't read/noticed elsewhere in the docs -- libbu guarantees allocations so you never have to check return pointers from bu_malloc() and friends
15:02.55poolioyeah I read that, it's very nice :)
15:03.16pooliodoes it exit the program if it can't allocate space?
15:03.26brlcadyes, it will abort
15:04.45brlcadrunning out of memory is considered a fatal error, and having spagetti code to handle the extremely rare cases where you might be able to recover gracefully doing something OTHER than exit() just isn't worth the complexity it adds
15:06.55brlcadalso, there is a way to catch out-of-memory conditions if you really do want to "keep going" .. just by default it will abort
15:07.20pooliocool, good development choice :)
15:09.13pooliobrlcad: Is there a way to go from Makefile.am in my directory --> Makefile without running a whole ./configure and adding my directory to the build list?
15:50.59brlcadnope, gotta add it though once you add it, it should rebuild the Makefile after Makefile.am edits
15:52.44brlcadhave to add it eventually regardless so might as well be sooner rather than later
15:52.56poolioYeah I did to my local build
15:54.06pooliowait,w hat do I have to modify besides configure.ac and the creation of the Makefile.am in the directory?
16:02.25poolioah d'oh, forgot to run autogen.sh
16:09.21poolioUh oh> unless I broke something, someone broke something in CVS...
16:09.31poolioopennurbs_bezier.cpp:1149: error: 'assert' was not declared in this scope
16:47.42IriX64poolio.... just needs a #include <assert.h> and it'll be fine.
16:58.41poolioYeah I added it in a while ago :)
17:07.07IriX64cool
17:11.08IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/579383    <---- poolio i don't understand this part of configure.ac can you explain?
17:11.34IriX64my x keeps coming up not detected and i think this is why
17:11.51IriX64line 3336 of configure.ac
17:24.56poolioSo it's running the program specified from 3335 through 3341
17:25.03IriX64yes
17:25.22poolioand returning either 1 or 0 based off of whether xmkm is null
17:25.41IriX64man 7.8.4 detects my x
17:25.43poolioso basically the reason X isn't working is because XNewModifiermap(1) returns NULL instead of an non-NULL value like it should if it was succesful
17:26.05pooliowell what's changed since then?
17:26.30IriX64noithing on my end they changed the check
17:26.39IriX64err nothing
17:26.39poolioI know, what's changed in the  check
17:26.53poolioIt could be your version of X doesn't support the test they are trying to perform
17:27.00IriX64ill have to compare them again
17:27.08IriX64x11r6 man
17:27.22poolio=P good luck
17:27.32IriX64thanks :)
17:28.34IriX64i'll code around it what the heck i know ive got x and the libs detection works so *shrug
17:31.23IriX64thanks poolio
17:35.58poolioit appears like "< # XXX ugly hack that needs to die
17:36.02pooliodied :)
17:40.06IriX64ahh you compared? i just changed it a bit
17:40.13poolioIriX64: So in the current configure.ac another check was added that tests to see if some Xmodifier stuff is working. I'm guessing that your environment fails that test.
17:40.25pooliorun it on your own and see what results you get
17:40.29poolio#include <X11/Xlib.h>
17:40.32IriX64probably right
17:40.50IriX64i'm that out of date ? :)
17:41.04poolioI guess
17:41.17poolioI was gonna type out a one line version of the program but i figure you're fully capable of copy/paste
17:41.21IriX64wonder what will break :)
17:41.24IriX64am
17:41.41IriX64not that interested
17:42.10IriX64just haven't seen return==null
17:42.18IriX64i dont use that
17:42.54pooliowell it's return value==null
17:43.11IriX64so why bother why not just return 0?
17:43.35pooliowell it shortens code. You can do if(value==NULL) return 1; else return 0;
17:43.41poolioit's a lot longer than just return value==NULL;
17:43.55IriX64sigh
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17:45.05pooliot looks like it should be in x11r6 though
17:45.06IriX64why not just return value 0 ? 1
17:45.23IriX64yeah
17:45.45poolio(condition)? 0 : 1 ?
17:45.48poolioi don't think it works there
17:45.56IriX64might
17:46.26poolioyeah it does, but it's still longer
17:46.34IriX64im happy for now it configures
17:46.43poolioYeah, but what'd you break?
17:46.51IriX64my ankle :P
17:47.05pooliosorry. feel better. i'm gonna grab some lunch :)
17:47.14IriX64heh thanks man
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17:54.10IriX64Laniakea: cheers
17:54.17LaniakeaIriX64: cheers
17:54.23IriX64:)
17:55.19IriX64mmm that was fast, you're not like me, I type with two fingers :)
17:55.38pooliodo you really?
17:55.49IriX64yes never learned to type
17:55.53LaniakeaIriX64: do you have ZX Spectrum?
17:56.17IriX64what on earth is ZXSpectrum?
17:56.23Laniakeanothing
17:56.37IriX64I know, if you have to ask you don't know :)
17:57.20Laniakeamy secret retro dream is to get a casette recorder
17:57.25IriX64poolio too old to unlearn how i do it now and replace it with a new way
17:58.09IriX64mine is to transfer all my music from 12" reels to cd someday
17:58.21IriX64err 10.5"
17:58.36pooliogeez
17:58.39poolionever too old!
17:58.50IriX64heh tel it to my soul
17:58.54IriX64tell too
17:59.08IriX64i hate unlearning, its hard
17:59.59IriX64i'm waiting for a computer I can just tell what to do :)
18:00.46IriX64cassette recorder, they're available still
18:01.35IriX64nikki break (no not Nikki Lawerence) I'll be back
18:18.05IriX64in bu_bomb() I added an fcloseall() to try to protect the database for what it's worth
18:18.28IriX64just before the abort()
18:40.17IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    the BrlCad albumn
18:46.36IriX64gotta figure a way of putting a bash shell in there so you can run your script tools
18:46.58IriX64sh should fit the bill
18:54.23IriX64same url latest build raytracing (1st Pix) and btw is this sort of thing allowed in the channel?
18:56.13*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host81-157-197-75.range81-157.btcentralplus.com)
19:04.32IriX64mental note, don't start a photon map during a compile :)
19:17.21IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/579607     haha
19:21.44IriX64mmm exec sh now works
19:21.48IriX64sweet
19:24.12IriX64ok i'm ready to build a mug :)
19:29.13*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.178.146)
19:33.24IriX64same url brlcad albumn 1st pix
19:45.38poolioIriX64: your webspace is b0rked.
19:47.34IriX64huh?
19:47.39IriX64loads here
19:47.53IriX64whats the problem?
19:47.56poolioXML Parsing Error: syntax error
19:47.56poolioLocation: http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/
19:47.56poolioLine Number 3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN">
19:48.06IriX64what browser
19:48.17poolioiceweassel (firefox), but it worked fine the other day
19:49.54IriX64windows firefox loads it fine
19:50.34IriX64sorry man dunno what to say
19:50.54poolioYou don't need to say anything. I have to get back to work :)
19:51.08IriX64is there a .org that allows png upload?
19:51.20IriX64me too :)
19:52.25IriX64try it now
19:54.41IriX64b0rked eh? now it's borst eat hearty :)
19:56.01IriX64reminds me must point ppl to http://brlcad.org in the caption field
19:57.24IriX64there
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20:48.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: move the debugging defines into one place; implement correct ON_Ray copy ctor/asst operator; fix node intersection
20:54.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
20:54.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: added bounding-box plotting for debugging purposes; fixed memory leak
20:54.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: in shot routine; debugging acne/odd hit count problems (currently not
20:54.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: finished!!); renamed existing debug statements (should just remove them!)
20:56.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fixed bug in bounding box generation: wasn't capturing true dimensions, now using openNURBS BB routine for initial calc; some more debugging stmts
20:59.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: fixed (? maybe) the bezier clipping algorithm infinite recursion when the clip is too large
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21:08.29*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
21:34.51yukonbobcan anybody tell me why when I make (for example) a vertical post (in post rcc  0 0 0 0 0 100 1) and a wire joining  top of post to ground (in wire rcc 0 0 100 100 0 0 0.1), the "wire" doesn't seem to reflect the angle it should be at, and maybe not even the length? (I'm know it's going to be operator error, but I don't know what that error is yet ;)
21:39.35IriX64mine doesn't have either of those.
21:40.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/579886   heh
21:41.32IriX64i set the color to peach and it raytraced it sweet
21:42.52poolioIriX64: Have you ever tried a fully functional brl-cad install in a supported environment?
21:43.42IriX64you calling mine something other than fully functional?
21:44.03IriX64ill do anything you can do except adrt
21:45.39poolioI just wonder why you are so happy about the software working as expected =)
21:46.03IriX64for me the worst thing that ever happened to brlcad was this so called upgrade of tcl/tk
21:46.52IriX64i'm happy cause its doing it in windereze outside the cygwin environment
21:47.20IriX64cause for rejoicing here :)
21:48.01IriX64i can distribute this if so inclined
21:48.23poolioAh yeah, GPLd
21:48.29IriX64right
21:48.53IriX64wouldnt charge for it anyway, most fun ive ever had :)
21:49.05pooliowow. dull life ;)
21:49.15IriX64small things amuse me
21:49.15pooliowell back to code...
21:49.19IriX64me too
21:52.02IriX64poolio many women are interested in brlcad, I'm simply trying to impress :P
21:52.23poolioIriX64: you wish ;)
21:52.42IriX64don't we all
21:52.57IriX64my version of a porche
21:54.36poolioporsche?
22:04.26yukonbobno porch... chicks dig porches.
22:08.16IriX64ok lamborgini
22:09.00IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the brlcad albumn, i present my cup for inspection :)
22:09.09pooliolamborghini?
22:09.14IriX64sigh if you can access that page that is
22:09.19poolioIriX64: I still get that damn error
22:09.22IriX64yes i cant spell
22:09.57yukonbobpoolio: is that the xml error?
22:10.05poolioyukonbob: yeah
22:10.17yukonbobheh
22:14.37poolioyukonbob: You work on multithreaded code for brl-cad?
22:18.37yukonbobnope -- I'm new to BRLCAD -- so far I've exposed a malloc issue w/ displacement maps, and have done work (not published) on converting USGS DEMs->dsp data.
22:19.40yukonbob(and complained about the default mged DISPLAY handling, which I think is erroneous... need to point that out to <brlcad> ;)
22:21.51IriX64maybe.... i should finish cup :)
22:22.40IriX64yukonbob, if X is up mine connects, if its not it waits.
22:23.01IriX64if you start with mged -c it asks
22:24.00yukonbobIriX64: right --- we went through this yesterday -- I still think default behaviour is incorrect.
22:24.30IriX64your saying it should honor the display variable
22:24.40yukonboblike every other X client, yes.
22:25.16IriX64just a sec what does yours do?
22:26.01yukonbobit doesn't honour the DISPLAY variable... it searches for X servers on it's own, and connects.
22:26.19IriX64first available i take it
22:26.37yukonbob(it'll try using the DISPLAY variable, but if that doesn't work, it tries searching, that is)
22:27.23IriX64but thats proper in a network and this thing is networked
22:27.26poolioI can't get mged running on my second display, but I haven't tried anything
22:28.12yukonbobIriX64: I don't think searching for non-explicitly-declared X displays is proper, and in fact it's dangerous
22:28.59poolioMy pinky hurts. all the ctrl+keys and shift usage ... has hurt my pinky. :'(.
22:29.09pooliobrlcad: Do I have some sort of injury coverage or worker's benefits? hahaha
22:29.10IriX64heh
22:38.22yukonbobbrlcad: you online currently?
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23:03.32*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
23:36.06IriX64these people are usually very busy, patience is required
23:36.20IriX64me i just play :)
23:37.07pooliowell, it's there job
23:37.11poolio*their
23:39.59IriX64thats what im trying to point out
23:40.56IriX64im still trying to work up the nerve to ask them for stryker.g
23:41.18pooliohaha
23:42.00IriX64how the heck did i put configure.ac in an infinite loop
23:43.11IriX64err configure
23:46.09*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:46.20IriX64i guess doing a make bench with system activity is kind of pointless, but lets see what we get
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070621

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070621

00:10.17IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/580158   there it is
00:15.40poolioIs that with optimized and on what system?
00:16.38IriX64optimized yes and compiler optimizations on cygwin
00:17.13IriX64but as i say system was loaded, a compile going etc
00:21.20IriX6463 processes running, just checked
00:41.55IriX64I see, I wouldn't lie to you about this, my system is capable.
01:08.43poolioHooray, my first project segment works!
01:13.42IriX64err well you know i can't spell
01:13.58poolio:)
01:16.03IriX64poolio? what is voxel?
01:17.52poolioa pixel is a point in 2d space, a voxel is a point in 3d space
01:37.20IriX64thankyou so you somehow represent a voxel using pixels correct?
01:37.53pooliowell that's what ray tracing is about
01:38.04poolioin terms of internal representation a voxel is just a vector of 3 values
01:38.15pooliobut I don't store voxels, I store rays
01:38.56IriX64i picture rays as a point moving through whatever dimensional space
01:39.18IriX64or hitting whatever object in that space
01:40.28poolioyeah that's normally the way it is, but in the context I'm using them a ray is "shot" through the model, and I essentially get a list of partitions of where that ray intersects the model
01:40.46poolioAlthough I don't have to calculate all that, that's librt :)
01:42.33IriX64I picture mine as 3d raterization :)
01:42.41IriX64rasterization too
01:43.17IriX64ahh i see geometry is your method, thank you
01:43.22IriX64:)
01:47.18IriX64btw i would add an fcloseall() before the abort in bu_bomb(str) function, if you really want to try to preserve the database
01:50.20poolioWhich code are you looking at?
01:50.22IriX64and if anybodys listening, terra.g a null pointer happens somehow in g_dsp when you do an extract all
01:51.03IriX64the bu_bomb code in is it bomb.c in util lib
01:51.15pooliooh alright, I thought you were referencing beset :P
01:51.26IriX64no man sewage :)
01:51.39pooliosorry, vetoed by brlcad. complain to him ;)
01:51.54IriX64sigh pulled rank again ;)
02:18.20pooliodinner time. I worked 12 hours today...why!?!?
02:18.34IriX64so youd appreciate a break :)
02:19.36poolio30:40 in 3 days. eek.
02:20.02IriX645 seconds in a month (I'm a sloth) :)
02:21.30IriX64I'm also a glutton for punishment, i'm trying to compile 7.8 and 7.10 at the same time:)
03:08.21brlcadyukonbob: you specified 100 0 0 for rcc wire's height vector, which means -- point it in the X direction 100 units
03:11.13brlcadIriX64: seriously, cut it out with the comments on the build if you're not going to work with me to resolve the issues (referring to comment you made earlier regarding 'so called upgrade' as that has nothing to do with your build problems)
03:11.47IriX64farther down it does the undefs are in tk
03:11.49brlcadi asked you to leave the build alone too, so that we can proceed one issue at a time before you go all edit-happy on configure.ac too
03:12.05IriX64that tree is alone
03:14.42IriX64the undefs prevent bwish and also mged from getting built
03:15.38brlcadthe information is way too out of context, i've no idea what you're referring to at this point
03:15.51IriX64lets let it lie ok?
03:16.10brlcadand it's irrelevant -- there were/are other build issues in front of it that need to be addressed
03:16.45brlcadif the earlier build errors are not fixed correctly, *everything* afterwards is suspect and unreliable
03:17.00IriX64ok
03:17.36brlcadeven if it happens to "get past" the error or masks it or whatever .. if it's not properly fixed then the game is over
03:18.14IriX64agreed do you still want to pursue it?
03:18.21brlcadso i committed a fix for that windows tk header issue -- where does the build stop next?
03:19.13brlcadyes, i want to work on getting your default system to compile completely first
03:19.21IriX64perhaps we should abandon my effort tkwindefault.h is no where to be found and i cant get past it without it
03:20.07brlcadhuh?
03:20.17brlcadyou said you have a pristine checkout, yes?
03:20.35IriX64as of last night as stated
03:20.42brlcaddid you run the steps I said earlier today?
03:20.54brlcadi.e. update your sources and recompile
03:21.02IriX64i stopped after last night you said to wait
03:21.17brlcadand then this morning, I gave you the next step
03:21.28IriX64missed that just a sec
03:21.58brlcad09:36 <@brlcad> IriX64: cvs update configure.ac && ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make
03:22.27IriX64sorry missed that ill try now
03:25.05IriX64logging in
03:29.39brlcaddon't really need a play-by-play -- just what's the next error ;)
03:29.51IriX64right
03:29.57IriX64:)
03:30.40IriX64btw i'm installing a forced build right now just to see
03:32.52brlcadyukonbob: if you make your wire's height vector actually point back downwards (remember hs trigonometry), you'll get the desired angle; something like 100 0 -100 for example for the height vector
03:44.24IriX64making ill be right back
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04:06.02IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/580581   your next error:)
04:13.38brlcadthat's good, thanks
04:14.01pooliohey brlcad
04:14.10pooliobrlcad: I have working code if you'd like to see! :D
04:14.51brlcadif you were committing frequently, I would already be seeing ;)
04:15.01brlcadbut yes, i'd love to see :)
04:15.48brlcaddon't be afraid to commit, and to commit _frequently_ .. fluidly, as you get something working, commit, new feature, commit, etc
04:15.52pooliobrlcad: ok ok, i was cleaning it up a bit before commit
04:16.07brlcadso get it working, commit, clean up, commit, etc ;)
04:16.56brlcadlots of commits is a good thing, and *much* easier to review both in the moment and 10 years down the road
04:17.24pooliook ok
04:20.58brlcadalso, feel free to commit to other parts of the code if you run into things (like the missing assert.h you found earlier)
04:21.20brlcador if you just want to improve/clean up, whatever floats your boat ;)
04:22.08brlcadthey get caught as the other platforms are tested -- just happened to work for that dev (jason) that he didn't need that header on his configuration for some reason
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04:42.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: added working ray trace comparison based on linear difference of the partition
04:44.38pooliobrlcad: ^^voila. sorry it took so long I was trying to fix a race condition that developed for i dont know what reason
04:48.17brlcadwoot :)
05:02.16pooliobrlcad: I had a question regarding allocating cpu resources: do I need to call rt_init_resource and bn_rand_init for everytime a raytrace a new object?
05:04.07brlcadiirc, no you don't -- should be able to call them just once per binary invocation
05:06.14poolioalright, it takes a pointer to rt_i and I change that with every new object, so I was just wondering
05:07.56brlcadhm, then don't quote me on that
05:08.06brlcadlemme look
05:08.31pooliothanks
05:18.25pooliobrlcad: so if I run rt_clean on an already set-up rt_i and resources I do not need to re-init the resource?
05:19.37poolioif you look in the current code, I extract the rt_i, re-alloate resources, do stuff with the object, then run rt_clean ... and repeat
05:19.37brlcadno
05:19.48brlcadthat sounds right
05:20.02pooliowait, so do or don't re-allocate resources, don't>
05:20.03poolio?
05:22.00brlcadwhat do you mean by that?
05:22.13brlcadstruct resource?
05:23.27poolioEasiest to see in the code, but I extract an rt_i from the database, run rt_init_resource and bn_rand_init for each CPU, run rt_prep_parallel, raytrace the object, and then run rt_clean(rt_i)
05:24.04pooliomy question is do I need to run r_init_resource and bn_rand_init once (on each cpu) for the whole program, or do I need to run it every time I extract a new rt_i from the database
05:24.25brlcadevery time you get a new rt_i
05:24.30poolioalright thanks
05:24.38brlcadbut clean the old rt_i first like you're doing
05:24.41pooliok
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06:02.45pooliognite zZz
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06:40.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: moved global vars to fstate and general cleanup
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08:17.25*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
08:25.30yukonbobbrlcad: re: post/cable heh -- my bad -- I was thinking of coordinates for second set of params, not vectors :P
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11:34.29thing0hey guys!
11:34.34thing0got internet access down here
11:34.39thing0have to use dialup
11:34.42thing0but at least I got it
11:34.43thing0hehe
11:34.55thing0hey brlcad
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16:00.41IriX64brlcad: sorry man machine check exception
16:06.17IriX64http://rafb.net/p/cG0YgV19.html but this came up
16:06.55IriX64our tree is still untouched this is another copy
16:09.03IriX64don't worry about the -noinhibit-exec switch thats just a way to keep the build process going so you can see all the errors and warnings in the project
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16:58.52IriX64bwahha the handicapped build is installing :)
17:00.48IriX64wonder if make bench will run on this
17:02.33IriX64don't freaking beleive it its doing it
17:12.09IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8dBwwd81.html   haha sweet benchmark
17:21.43IriX64no fbserv :)
17:22.05IriX64err :(
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17:23.04pooliogrrrrr
17:23.45IriX64christ,everbody run :)
17:24.31pooliointernet went down, so I looked at the extension cable I had on the coaxial cable and a mouse had chewed through it. :(
17:25.17IriX64i take it your cat had fried mouse or dinner then :)
17:25.24IriX64err for too
18:26.07pooliowhy does return not return...?
19:15.09pooliobrlcad: If I am at some sort of intermediary step in the code and I have a file I'm using to test a "module" of the program, should I commit the file used to run/test the module ?
19:16.12brlcadup to you for testing code, more of question of whether it'd be of any use to anyone watching and/or will it be useful a year from now when it's all said and done (even for just testing)
19:17.07brlcadsystem integration tests are desirable .. running your tool and expecting certain behavior
19:18.20brlcadwe've not gone down the road of white-/black-box testing or unit testing so much
19:18.51brlcada few of the tools do, and include testing routines w/ test code, but most are system level or non-existent
19:19.02brlcadso yeah.. whatever works for you ;)
19:36.53pooliobrlcad: Well in the near future the tool will probably no longer work, it's just that at this step that other file is used as a "driver" to the module
19:51.17pooliobrlcad: I opted to leave it out of the repository, but if you're curious in testing I can send it to you
19:51.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.h fitness.c): modularized fitness functions
20:11.15brlcadonly thing really missing are the build files so I can test-compile here ;)
20:14.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: annotate a couple of the bugs that dwayne reported regarding facedef and permute not coordinating with the display properly
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20:15.10poolio_sorry brlcad, thought mmy laptop was plugged in but ...
20:17.22pooliobrlcad: so can I update configure.ac?
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20:23.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: more bugs from dwayne's issues sheet including the return of the annoying cursor box character capture. also note BoT editing bug (units always mm), overlap tool inefficiency, and snap-to-grid issues.
20:24.04brlcadpoolio: you can update anything, the commits are reviewed by myself and others
20:24.16brlcadif there's an issue, I'd let you know, but don't be shy ;)
20:25.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (Makefile.am beset.c): added build files and test program
20:26.27pooliooh oops, two more
20:28.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/gtools/Makefile.am): updated build files for beset
20:30.02pooliobrlcad: Alright, should be good to go =)
20:32.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/vector.h: move now takes a const pointer to the pt
20:34.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix another knot issue with openNURBS; adjust brep tolerances (this needs to be looked at in more depth)
20:35.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.hpp: turn off some debugging in the converter
20:36.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: implement a region annointment command where the user can turn an assembly into a region and change all lower or higher regions into combinations
20:38.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: make brep_hit a value object (no dynamic alloc); now dropping hit points if they don't fall within subsurface bbox; turned off bbox plotting
20:39.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: validate primitives during export so that it is guaranteed that illegal primitives will not be written to file; preserve an arb8 as an arb8 (instead of writing as arb6 or arb5) and similarly for the other arb# sizes
20:41.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fix another knot-related bug; remove debugging output; adjust flatness tolerance for small curves
20:42.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_brep.cpp: adjust tolerance values in validity check - openNURBS was not using the values specified by the user (it was using hardcoded tolerances...) - this may need to be investigated further
20:43.50brlcadpoolio: coolio
20:44.47pooliobrlcad: did it work for you?
20:48.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: Implement an optical shader for the new pixelated military camouflage style
20:59.42*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-204-104.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:21.15*** join/#brlcad cad14 (n=93f0ec08@bz.bzflag.bz)
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21:37.03poolioalright i'm out for the night. gonna start working on the GA tomororw :D
21:42.52yukonbobaway
21:43.03yukonbobww
21:47.46yukonbobbrlcad: did you read discussion of DISPLAY variables and how mged attaches?
21:53.00brlcadyukonbob: yes, I did and if I understood you correctly -- it wasn't intentional that it keeps trying
21:53.08brlcadit is intention that it tries :0 if display is not set
21:56.25brlcadand that was merely a support balance decision .. there are more users that try to run mged without ever having set display (particularly common on Mac OS X) than there are X11 users that intentionally unset it for some reason but have it running on :0
21:57.47brlcadi'll look (or you're welcome to look) into patching it up so that it obeys display when it's set regardless of :0 working
21:58.01brlcadshould just be a couple lines
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22:00.17yukonbobthat sounds good -- I don't know how far is looks, or if it's only the single :0.0 that it looks for (that's actually all that I'm running), but I can take a look...
22:01.13yukonbobas long as there's not some other reason for having it, but _I_ can't think of a good reason to have it, unless there's some internal (to ARL) reason?
22:17.41brlcaddepends what the it is when you say by having "it" .. again checking :0 if display is unset is intentional and will preferably stay -- what wasn't intentional is trying :0 if display is set but doesn't work
22:19.06brlcadthere's no reason really for the latter other than maybe just "try really hard to show something on a local X display when all else fails" .. which wasn't the intent
22:29.15yukonbobhere's the scenarios I tested:
22:29.27yukonbobmy real DISPLAY=:0.0
22:32.36yukonbobsetting DISPLAY=192.168.99.99:0.0 (non-existant) seemed to try that, then still connected to :0.0
22:34.16yukonbobsetting DISPLAY='' also connected to :0.0 -- and I personally think this is an error... if somebody is running X Window System on Mac (or Windows, or anywhere), their display should be set... so from an xterm for example, anybody could run mged and have is appear on the proper display
22:36.29yukonbobmged picking display's to run on that are not listed in DISPLAY is overstepping it's responsibilities...
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23:37.17brlcadyukonbob: I entirely believe you that it's falling back to :0 .. I was just saying that that part wasn't intentional -- the intent was for systems were DISPLAY isn't set at all (i.e. running in Mac OS X terminal mostly)
23:39.16brlcadand not empty, but actually unset (which is a bit tricky to test for and likely not accounting for empty either) :)
23:39.39yukonbobOK -- I think we're on same page ;)
23:40.18brlcadprobably not entirely, I get the feeling that you'd like it to fail even try if display isn't set too
23:40.34brlcadbut the pages are at least facing/close ;)
23:40.35yukonbobIs there a native (ie: Aqua) build for MacOS X? (or a build for MacOS Classic for that matter), or do/have the Macs always required an X Window System installation?
23:40.57brlcadthere's not yet a native build
23:41.08brlcadthat's part of the reason for the upgrade to 8.5
23:41.18brlcada ton of AquaTk stuff was fixed in libtk
23:41.34yukonbobnice...
23:41.41brlcadso far, though, our mac dists have always required X11 on os x
23:42.15brlcadwhich is exceptionally unfortunate towards the mac ethos.. that's by far the #1 support issue .. how to run brl-cad on a mac
23:43.09brlcadno icon? X-eleve-what? command thingie type what? display? terminal? xterm? where's my icon?
23:43.16yukonbobok -- I think I _would_ like to fail if there's no DISPLAY set...(ie: running from vt console...) If somebody is running it from w/i their running X11 session (ie: from xterm) they'll have a working DISPLAY, if they're trying to launch from bar on bottom... they'd need a wrapper script that has default :0.0 perhaps?
23:43.47yukonbob^^ how about a mac-specific wrapper script
23:44.31brlcadactually, several open up terminal and try running from there .. sometimes X11 is running, sometimes it's not even installed, .. one of the most common, though was starting X11 yet typing mged in Terminal (where DISPLAY isn't set)
23:44.53yukonbobthat'd be brlcad.runme, pulled into the launch bar... #!/bin/sh; env DISPLAY=:0.0 brlcad.exe
23:45.24brlcadthat would be a good solution, though there is no brlcad.exe :)
23:45.46yukonbobyou get my point though ;)
23:46.10yukonbobbtw, do you know anything about X11 BigFonts?
23:47.05brlcadhm, as a proper noun, not really
23:48.00brlcada little about "big fonts" in X11, though .. xfontsel your font, and go to town ;)
23:48.25brlcadah, huh.. wierd
23:48.35yukonbob1 sec...
23:48.56yukonbobbash-3.2$ pl-X < bridge_plot.plot
23:48.56yukonbobpl-X: Can't open font
23:49.17brlcadsource says it should be trying "vtsingle"
23:49.49brlcadwhich is a bizzare default....
23:50.00brlcadhard-coded nonetheless
23:50.12yukonbobOK -- I was just assuming Bigfont was issue, because I see string:
23:50.22yukonbob"25509      1 pl-X     read(0x3, 0xbfbfe54c, 0x20) = 32
23:50.22yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:50.25yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:50.28yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:50.30yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:50.33yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:50.35yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:50.38yukonbob"
23:50.43yukonbob...and don't have loaded, nor had I heard of it before...
23:51.08brlcadsounds like some XFree internal symbol perhaps
23:51.20brlcaddid it crash on you or just say can't open?
23:52.00yukonbobxorg has lib for it too -- I've only just started looking into it, but might be mechanism for sharedmem for fonts... I'm just not clear (and might not even pursue it if it's vtsingle issue).
23:53.04yukonbobjust said couldn't open...
23:53.56yukonbobto tagent once more ;) ...
23:54.01yukonbob*tangent
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23:54.14yukonbobare there font method in mged?
23:54.23yukonbob*methods
23:54.41brlcadshould probably obey some -font option or something similar and default to 'fixed' or '6x10' or something
23:55.17brlcadthere are means to set/change the fonts if that's what you mean
23:55.27yukonbobie: for using fonts in renderings.
23:55.50brlcadFile->Preferences->Fonts for changing various aspects of mged
23:56.03brlcadah, text on renderings
23:56.06yukonbob(in title font "my_cool_font.ttf" "This is my title")
23:56.07*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128565739.dsl.bell.ca)
23:56.21brlcadyes and no, mostly no
23:56.26brlcadthat's been a desire for quite a while
23:56.59brlcadyes in the sense that there's a way to do it, but it's really a round-about way that is rather overly complicated
23:57.29brlcadyes you can get to NYC from Miami on a unicycle... but you probably don't want to
23:58.15yukonbobalright --- I'll leave fonts at that for now ;)
23:59.30yukonbobif I supply patches, should I just mail them to you, or post here, or ??
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070622

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070622

00:01.49brlcadif you post just one patch to the patches tracker, I'd just as well give you commit access so long as you've read the hacking file
00:02.21yukonbobwhere's that document?
00:02.24brlcadall commits are reviewed by myself and others, so the more the merrier ;)
00:02.31brlcadnew devs welcome
00:02.35brlcadit's in the top-level
00:02.37brlcadHACKING
00:02.49brlcadthat's the basic dev guide
00:03.53brlcadnothing is set in stone, but it at least lays down some consistency structure
00:04.49brlcadintentionally do avoid some of the more mundane "bikeshed" issues
00:06.02IriX64and i suppose if i bitch long enough you'll ask me why I don't fix it myself ;)
00:06.21brlcadIriX64: in your case, no I wouldn't :)
00:06.42IriX64good just so you know I'm *not capable :)
00:07.34brlcadnow is an opportune time for devs though as the activity is such that even my ability to review all commits isn't swamped yet (such that new devs couldn't be added without peer-review delegation)
00:08.04IriX64no...thanks :)
00:09.32IriX64http://rafb.net/p/IwLSo887.html   heh look at the cflags
00:10.24brlcadIriX64: not bad, that will get you better performance
00:10.50brlcadit's something that would be nice to do automatically some day when --enable-optimized is turned on too
00:10.57brlcadat least some variation
00:11.09IriX64should i'm hoping it works actually
00:11.17brlcadIriX64: there are other gcc flags that will give you even more performance that you might want to test out as well
00:11.51IriX64thankyou ill look :)
00:11.52brlcadgiven how much you like to compile and run the benchmarks, that certainly be useful to figure out -- what's the absolute best performance you can get simply out of tweaking compilation CFLAGS
00:12.23IriX64have to disable debug and symbols tho if you really want it to scream
00:12.47IriX64i like debug on :)
00:13.10brlcadanother set of flags are the ones for alignment, i.e. -falign-functions, -falign-jumps, -falign-labels, -falign-loops, etc .. those can boost performance particularly well and in concert with other flags
00:13.28IriX64btw i was wrong flushall() isn't needed fcloseall() does that too
00:13.42brlcadthat was actually an amusing discovery -- disabling debug without turning on alignment can actually slow it down
00:14.03IriX64heh ill play
00:14.03IriX64don't mind waiting 50 minutes per
00:14.16brlcadIriX64: abort() closes any descriptors that weren't closed too
00:14.37IriX64never used abort so i don't know
00:18.14yukonbobbrlcad: rock'n'roll... I'll let you get back to your work, and we can catch-up later for commit access (is cvs, svn, other?)
00:20.53brlcadcvs at the moment, svn before the end of the year
00:21.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: use 'fixed' font by default instead of the obscure 'vtsingle' font.. should really have a cmd-line option to set/override
00:21.46brlcadhm, now how to work pl-X .. haven't used it in years
00:22.02yukonbobpl-X < my_plotfile.plot
00:22.29brlcadhrmph.. flashes my plot file then exits
00:23.34brlcadah, well now that's stupid...
00:24.03brlcadit just sleeps for a second then exits
00:24.12yukonbobheh -- cheap
00:24.13brlcadand assumes single-buffered
00:33.05yukonbobheh -- no kidding? ;) What are you running IriX64?
00:33.16IriX64winaxe at the moment
00:33.58IriX64shows the geometry in color but bring up a frame buffer and the graphic screen and command screen go black
00:34.43IriX64touch one of those other screens and they revert to normal tho
00:36.28IriX64nice online help tho
00:37.39IriX64twingy was right i know nothing about lighting, all my havoc photonmaps come out sorta dark
00:40.52IriX64doh...it's taking so long cause you started a compile and forgot about it goof :)
00:41.54IriX64http://www.winaxe.com/x-windows-for-windows.html
00:42.00IriX64there yukonbob
00:48.30IriX64still have fits trying to cut from the xside and pasting to the windows side
00:51.10yukonbobwinaxe looks like an x server, not a window manager...
00:51.10yukonbobhow long does evaluation last?
00:51.29IriX64thats what it is and a whole lot more
00:51.41IriX64hasn't expired yet and ive had it a month
00:53.21IriX64whup oh well :)
01:00.49IriX64demo time is up oh well
01:02.30*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
01:04.17IriX64yukonbob it's demo ware shuts down on you after i think 60 minutes
01:05.12yukonbobIriX64: so did you buy your copy?
01:05.16yukonbobbrlcad: the built-in regex in brlcad... is it just henry spencers lib, or ??
01:09.38brlcadyes it is
01:11.11brlcadeverything in src/other is really just provided for compilation convenience so users don't have to go download anything -- using pre-installed or build-system installed libraries are generally preferred of course
01:11.53brlcadlibregex is an interesting case, though -- have found several regex implementations that perform _considerably_ slower than spencer's earlier 90
01:12.11yukonbobright -- I'm just going through all this on my NetBSD system to try to build dependencies w/i the pkgsrc system, and keep everything "admin-able" w/i the pgksrc framework...
01:12.20brlcad90's implementation .. or buggy even, where spencers has no problem (with massive expressions for example)
01:13.22brlcadyukonbob: ideally, you should/could get it to work with --disable-almost-everything (and maybe then add --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build since they're pre-release)
01:13.46yukonbobbrlcad: I'm still playing w/ 7.8, since it's not dealing w/ 8.5...
01:15.25yukonbobI use tcl/tk on my system anyway... if I wasn't worried about collisions, I'd just install the 8.5...
01:15.26brlcadi really wish we didn't have to upgrade to 8.5, it's the first time in recent memory (ever?) that we've gone to a pre-release version, usually hanging behind a few versions
01:15.45brlcadbut getting AquaTk working is a bit of a high-priority item
01:16.10yukonbobI guess I could install a chroot environ for brlcad and go w/ 8.5...
01:16.27brlcadthe problem you'll run into in 7.8 is that we actually required a custom tk
01:16.40brlcadbrl-cad included several tk mods that were being integrated upstream into tk
01:16.49brlcadnew canvas widget in particular
01:17.48brlcadthe process with the tcl/tk folks, however, just become too much of a burden so much of that code has been rewritten, decoupled, and/or removed, so that we can build with a clean tcl/tk again -- none of those changes are in 7.8 though iirc
01:18.13brlcadthat's functionality limited to just one feature of mged, but it means you'll probably have to have a patch to successfully compile against a system tcl/tk
01:19.44yukonbobahh --- that makes sense --- I witnessed what you were talking about, but didn't finish looking into it...
01:19.58yukonbob7.10 removes that restriction?
01:20.15brlcadour tk enhancements are the predominant reason why we're still not integrated into the various package management systems like ports, apt, fink, etc, and part of the motivation for much of the changes in 7.10
01:20.43brlcadyeah, latest head removes that restriction and builds cleanly now
01:22.01yukonbobalright -- well, I've got 7.8.4 building on my machine, but using it's (necessarily) custom tcl/tk... but I'm going to move to playing w/ 7.10 then... tcl/tk 8.5 is going to have to make it to the system sometime anyway...
01:23.22yukonbobwhat's the feature of mged that required the core-patch to tk?
01:24.06brlcadthe Sketch Editor
01:24.22brlcadit draws on a custom Bezier Canvas widget
01:24.36yukonbobright -- /me explored that briefly...
01:25.05brlcadthat's the item in the TODO remaining for 7.10.2 release that I've left to deal with
01:25.22yukonbobthere's currently no sketch editor?
01:25.24brlcadas it's presently just turned off -- need to make it use a different canvas widget
01:25.48yukonbobOK -- so sketching fucntionality is temporarily missing in 7.10.x, correct?
01:25.48brlcadcurrently on head -- should be restored prior to release, but I have to code that up
01:26.21brlcadin 7.10.1 yes
01:34.02brlcad``Erik: just fyi, a particular server is under massive woes at the moment .. went nutty and eventually locked up
01:34.53brlcadit was having a helluva time scrubbing .. massive delays and crashed or was rebooted this morning, and spent most of the day fscking only to later lock up hard
01:36.49``Erikum
01:36.55``Erikbring it up single user mode
01:36.55Twingyyou guys haven't thrown that in the garbage can yet?
01:36.59``Erikdisable background fsck
01:37.08Twingyit's ancient
01:37.09brlcadmassive woes with services after the earlier reboot too, many libraries were apparently updated without the tools being rebuilt so they all fail with missing library errors (this was before the crash)
01:37.10``Erikthat's what kills it
01:37.25``Erikhuh
01:37.29``Erik:/
01:37.34``Erikdidja world it?
01:37.38``Erikum
01:37.40brlcadi was in the midst of rebuilding smbd when it locked up
01:37.54``ErikI think the only big consumers left are us and bills guys
01:38.14brlcadyeah, bills guys were up in arms as he's got pjt breathing down at him for some data
01:38.28brlcadI'll be in early early tomorrow to hopefully upline it
01:38.46``Erikum, you can mount it ro
01:38.49``Erikto get the data to 'em
01:39.27brlcadwell at the moment, it aint doing anything since it locked up -- didn't have time to deal with the crash today
01:40.02``Erikum, when ti's booting, and hits the |/-\ scroller, hit backspace or something, do "boot -s" to get single user mode
01:40.12``Erikthen you can mount stuff up, etc, get the production need off
01:40.24brlcadI can manage, but thought you might like to know in case you try to get in .. 2 is still scrubbing btw (with curiously/exceptionally low cpu/io usage)
01:40.48brlcadwhere's background fsck stashed?
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02:02.30IriX64rotten cat keeps pressing my reboot button while crying for milk :)
02:03.15IriX64yukonbob if you're interested in windows xservers xwin32 is pretty decent too
02:03.26IriX64commercial also
02:03.57IriX64also mi_x 4.2
02:04.11IriX64and my fav cygwin-x
02:12.26``Erik/etc/rc.conf has the inf0z, um, it's a feature to regular fsck
02:12.33``Erik-F vs -B or something
02:13.00``Erikbackground fsck requires soft updates turned on, so if you have it unmounted, you COULD use tunefs to disable softupdates
02:13.07``ErikI believe you can turn them back on with the fs live
02:13.40``Erik(softupdates is essentially a smarter operation order, the theory being that by doing the ops in a concurrency friendly order, a journaled FS is unnecessary)
02:14.24brlcadhow long does the fsck usually take?
02:14.41``Erikstraight fsck without softupdates (fg mode) is maybe 1-1.5 hours
02:15.18brlcadi might just bring it up single user then, do the fsck, then get them their data
02:15.37brlcadthen fool around with any fixings
02:15.42``Erikthat'd be the best way, I think
02:15.59``ErikI'll try to keep half an eye on irc, or you have my cellphone #
02:16.15brlcadyou're on vacation, I ain't calling
02:16.22brlcadthat's just wrong
02:16.32``Erikaight *shrug*
02:16.36brlcad:)
02:16.37``Erikif you get terribly stuck, though *shrug*
02:16.47``ErikI seriously doubt you will
02:16.52``Erikbut *shrug*
02:17.15brlcadmaybe someone would call the MPs and say there's something explosive inside the case
02:17.40``Erikmy big plans for tomorrow are to make pretzels from scratch *shrug*
02:17.50``Erikheh, different kind of "blow up"
02:18.14brlcadthe server's .. uh .. down.  permanently.
02:18.34``Erikup... way up.. in many pieces...
02:20.39IriX64http://rafb.net/p/PujJym17.html   dunno if i should paste stuff like this
02:21.31IriX64if xwin32 doesn't time out on me ill post the results on the blog
02:26.30IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   brlcad albumn first pix
02:28.16IriX64should test some of the other lighting models i guess
02:28.19pooliobrlcad: Tomorrow I'm probably going to be researching/designing the GA framework. If I write / sketch stuff by hand, is it fine if I just keep that to myself and use it or would you rather be able to see my progress/ideas
02:46.15brlcadIriX64: not unless you intend to fix them :)
02:46.44brlcadsub millimeter overlaps are not cause for concern regardless, you can quell the reporting with a command line option
02:47.21IriX64the lighting models?
02:47.38IriX64fix them? snort!
02:47.41brlcadpoolio: your development workflow is your own .. just the code should be very well documented as to what is going on, even if you need to resort to ascii art :)
02:47.48brlcadIriX64: no, the overlaps
02:49.47pooliobrlcad: so you won't be worried if you don't see code? (my main question was proving that I was working(
02:50.01IriX64the overlap tool is capable of that but i don't know what i'm doing with it
02:50.45IriX64err gui overlap tool
02:51.05IriX64ill show you it wait a few minutes
02:54.10brlcadpoolio: ahh, no, that's fine
02:54.28IriX64the blog brlcad albumn tool1 & tool2
02:54.39pooliobrlcad: ok. I'll try to get the main framework outline done and include that as part of my project writeup and email that to you tomorrow
02:55.03brlcadIriX64: I don't want/need to see the overlap tool .. I know more than well enough what all of mged looks like ...
02:55.25IriX64sorry thought you expressed an interest :)
02:55.26brlcadpoolio: sounds great
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03:06.08IriX64watch it poolio he'll send the policio after you if it's not proper :)
03:06.43IriX64maybe that should be mpios :)
03:07.29IriX64brlcad got time to tend to my build problem or should we shelve that for now?
03:12.40IriX64same blog same albumn compare to the native windows version.
03:12.45IriX64tool3
03:13.46IriX64that bob@mako is good :)
03:16.28IriX64prefer the cygwin port myself ;)
03:20.42brlcadIriX64: i'm working on it
03:22.49pooliobrlcad: did you try running the beset fitness test prog? I just want to make sure I added it to cvs right
03:24.36pooliobrlcad: also when you were saying variable length genomes were difficult, had you ever looked at genetic programming? Apparently GAs and GPs aren't just synonyms, GPs are tailored to run on trees (of variable sizes)
03:38.48IriX64I'm reloading the IriX64 blog with past effortts,designs,disasters :)
03:39.40IriX64The IriX32 blog is only half of me :)
03:45.08IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
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05:25.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c:
05:25.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: big update/enhancements so that pl-X is actually functional and useful. if the
05:25.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: last command in a plot file is an erase command, don't do it (wth show a black
05:25.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: window). most importantly, keep the window up until the user presses a key.
05:25.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: additional goodness, if we're on Mac OS X, make sure X11 has focus. ignore
05:25.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: newlines in the file for kicks.
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11:26.52thing0hey all
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11:41.28thing0hey elite01
11:41.29thing0sup?
11:41.36elite01home! :)
11:41.39elite01(just got home)
11:42.00elite01and now, fortune spit with a quote form "Edwim Schrodinger" at me
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11:47.28thing1damn dialup drop out
11:47.29thing1argh
11:47.29thing1hehe
11:50.27thing1damn
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18:17.17pooliobrlcad: You've got mail :)
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18:54.07pooliobrlcad: also when you get a chance, maybe you could explain how brlcad deals with the CSG trees :)
19:31.31IriX64make install
19:34.55IriX64http://rafb.net/p/VZiv2N84.html   < --- fbserv on the windows side :)
19:41.20IriX64http://rafb.net/p/axrGmn24.html   < --- heheh it works sorrry to be so verbose :)
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19:46.11IriX64now to copy my latest effort from cygwin to windows.... wish me luck :)
19:48.09IriX64this thing is huge, over a gig for the tree, course thats a static compile
19:48.47IriX64err link
19:50.34IriX64name something that by all rights should not work, i'm trying to be complete here
19:51.20IriX64man 2,708 files, 90 folders
19:51.57IriX64thats everything except adrt
19:55.30IriX64crap metaball creation still crashes it :(
20:04.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8AaDui37.html    < --- just so you know i'm working with your code
20:24.31IriX64ah i see metaball not implemented in this version
20:24.58IriX64so why does it crash mged
20:41.27IriX64bu_log.....
20:42.05IriX64to each his own :)
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21:13.11IriX6448kc ... interesting :)
21:16.46IriX64starting another tree to go edit happy in, yours brlcad awaits you :)
21:18.00brlcadpoolio: got it, thanks!
21:18.07brlcadIriX64: five lines...
21:18.29IriX64again i don't count well but ill try
21:19.20IriX64you've gotta admit what i lack in expertise i make up form in enthusiasm :)
21:21.09pooliobrlcad: cool cool. I've started kind of outlining in pseudocode what the framework is gonna be like
21:21.23brlcadIriX64: which is the main reason you've not been ejected ;)
21:21.35brlcadothers wouldn't be so patient
21:21.39brlcadso please try to count
21:21.42IriX64heh thanks for your tolerance :)
21:21.47IriX64ill try
21:23.26pooliobrlcad: the whole tree layout and whatnot in librt are quite confusing to me :$
21:24.27brlcadpoolio: I'll read it in more detail later this evening and add some of my own comments and edits for sharing around "in house" (mainly adding extra detail on the "big picture" of why try to do this at all)
21:25.23brlcadpoolio: the csg tree is a directed acyclic graph that can be turned into a binary directed tree or left in graph form
21:25.51brlcadyou generally don't have to care other than knowing how to create a hierarchy (which you don't need just yet ;)
21:26.56brlcadfirst input test case should be just a simple sphere
21:37.09pooliobrlcad: Yes, but I'd like to have it correclty interact with the csg tree, even if it's just one shape
21:38.15pooliobrlcad: I'd also appreciate more comments on the big picture, I don't think I entirely understand it :)
21:39.29pooliobascially I want to learn how to work with the csg tree now, that way everything will work the same when I go to more shapes or operations the current structure won't work and will need to be heavily updated. I'd pretty much have to rewrite all of the genome encoding and reading stuff
21:44.49brlcadpoolio: from a construction perspective, maybe look at src/proc-db and man libwdb
21:45.12brlcadand perhaps src/mk
21:45.30brlcadthey includes lots of examples on creating geometry in memory, creating .g geometry files
21:46.12poolioalright cool
21:46.34poolioalso, is a good way of approaching the storage of objects putting htem in a .g file and manipulating/reading/writing from there? that's the way I currently hvae it set up
21:46.40brlcadthere's a way to create/open in-memory-only geometry files as well, but I'd recommend actually sticking to creating actual files so results can be reviewed, manually loaded, etc
21:47.07pooliobrlcad: Well I think it's probalby better to keep it optionally stored to a file, that way if you want to speed it up when you run in parallel it will be a lot better
21:47.14pooliootherwise you're transmitting quite a lot of data back and forth
21:47.58brlcadfwiw, that's getting into the realm of optimization where you've not yet profiled ..
21:48.11pooliotrue :P
21:48.34poolioIt's just a thought. Also for me testing I need to try to keep it reasonably fast otherwise I might go days computing
21:48.52brlcadit's a good concern, but I can categorically say that you're very likely not going to be I/O bound writing geometry to disk -- ray-tracing will dominate
21:48.55poolioand I don't know how large the .g file will grow to, but I guess I can always just scale it down
21:49.35brlcadthe .g files shouldn't be more than a few K, they're rather compact for CSG
21:50.04brlcada full tank in csg can be often only a few MB
21:50.24pooliobrlcad: ok :)
21:50.24brlcadwhereas in polygonal form, they might be a GB
21:50.47brlcadthere's about two orders of magnitude difference
21:51.11pooliothat's quite crazy. Some insane compression if it works well :)
21:54.42pooliobrlcad: also the reason I want to work with trees is because of the crossover, mutation, and reproduction aspects. I'd rather code them to work with trees than with whatever shape I'm working with
21:54.50poolioalthough I guess the only thing that will exist is mutation
21:54.51brlcad.g overhead is 104 bytes to stub out an empty file, each primitive is roughly about 100-500 bytes
21:54.54poolio(in a one-shape system)
21:56.00*** join/#brlcad _yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
22:24.02IriX64anybody know the latest version of solaris? issolaris5 is good but..
22:24.11IriX64ie too
22:43.06IriX64haha solaris10 :)
22:43.51IriX64testing your solaris code i.e -DSOLARIS   :)
22:51.21IriX64http://rafb.net/p/z44nf372.html    lets see if it even starts to build
22:54.12IriX64http://rafb.net/p/oJxZEi22.html  heh i'll shutup now :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070623

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070623

00:16.17IriX64http://rafb.net/p/oynrsY45.html just curious, have i hit solaris code yet?
00:19.09IriX64remember i ignore warnings such as cast make integer from pointer of different size
00:19.43IriX64because in a cast i assume you know what you want
00:36.47IriX64http://rafb.net/p/UZsUZI80.html   <---- is anybody else getting this kind of stuff, this is trying to make bwish
00:37.35IriX64reams of errors do you want all of it?
00:40.25IriX64http://rafb.net/p/D4wdlm67.html maybe that will help
00:41.45IriX64bte mged exhibits the same symptom, i tried compiling it just in its directory
00:41.51IriX64btw too
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18:17.14IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, here's that photoshop pix of tinwoodsman i promised you :P
18:28.52IriX64actually it's a 5-clicks photo ;)
18:30.11IriX64brlcad: i deleted that tree and did a fresh complete cvs checkout, waiting on you now at your leisure.
18:31.57poolioIriX64: It's the weekend, he might not be working today :)
18:33.05IriX64doh!!!! yer right
18:34.11IriX64you get that iceweasel of yours to access the blog?
18:34.52IriX64heh firefox detected refusing access()
18:35.57IriX64probably hides on weekends :)
18:37.14poolioIriX64: no, i haven't bothered though, been busy with work/play.
18:37.43IriX64ahh
18:38.13IriX64wonder if others have that problem, i know yukonbob hit it too
18:38.33IriX64said something about curling the url
18:41.28IriX64http://rafb.net/p/FDzKcw22.html   hehe checking the solaris code :)
18:44.13IriX64understand how this works, I can follow any of the lines you support and cross compile to my platform :)
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18:59.14IriX64yukonbob, he fixed your display thing , fisheye :)
18:59.23IriX64errr check fisheye
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19:13.09IriX64heh
19:13.38IriX64only thing i don't like is defaults to join on open
19:18.06IriX64my irix32 blog :)
19:22.11IriX64should have put the pirates of the carribean up at disney
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21:39.46IriX64poolio.... that assert.h thing, thought they fixed it.
21:40.45IriX64well i fixed my copy sigh... again
21:41.15IriX64sometimes it doesn't pay to start from scratch :)
21:41.53IriX64scratch being a complete cvs checkout
21:42.09poolioI can commit it for you
21:42.33IriX64could you just #include <assert.h> with his includes
21:42.43poolioyeah sure, one sec
21:42.48IriX64thanks
21:44.07pooliowhich file was it in again?
21:44.23IriX64opennurbs_bezier.cpp
21:45.05IriX64not sure if it should go there or common.h
21:45.38IriX64i put mine in the cpp file
21:46.26IriX64is that file name right just a sec
21:47.21IriX64its right
21:47.27poolioI'm just going to put it in opennurbs_bezier.cpp, the dev can move it later if he wants
21:47.39IriX64good
21:48.10poolioalright, cvsup
21:48.19IriX64thanks
21:48.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: included assert.h
21:55.03IriX64http://rafb.net/p/CKliVD10.html    line 3352 or there abouts poolio, why set x11_works to no on a successfull test result?
21:55.22IriX64err configure.ac
21:56.04IriX64the previos check sets to yes, this one resets to no on success
21:58.14IriX64so when i go edit happy, I just change that little no to a yes, and voila my x passes inspection now
21:58.23IriX64heh
22:01.57poolioI ahve a feeling you fail the second check
22:02.19poolioIt doesn't set it to no on success, it sets it to no on failure. And apparently you fail that check
22:06.45pooliohttp://rafb.net/p/vXnvBf74.html
22:06.49pooliocompile and run that and tell me what it outputs
22:08.15IriX64just a sec
22:12.43IriX64undefined reference to _Xnewmodifier map, you telling me my x is broken?
22:12.53poolioyes siree.
22:13.00IriX64crapville
22:13.02pooliooh wait, it won't even compile?
22:13.06IriX64right
22:13.15pooliooh duh
22:13.23poolioyou have to link the right xlibs, one sec
22:15.11poolio-lX11
22:16.07IriX64gives back a pointer so my x is not broken :)
22:16.23IriX64you printfed the pointer its there poolio
22:17.12IriX64IriX64@FthrNtr ~
22:17.12IriX64$ ./test
22:17.12IriX640x100f0198
22:17.12IriX64IriX64@FthrNtr ~
22:17.13IriX64$
22:18.58IriX64going for a walk cya later, thanks for the commit
22:19.15poolioIriX64: wait, got another minute?
22:21.49poolioah well, you'll read it when you get back. I don't know much about automake so I missed this, but AC_TRY_RUN has 4 arguments, the first is the program, , if the program  returns true the second argument is executed, false the third, and ** if autoconf knows it is cross-compiling for another
22:21.54pooliomachine and therefore can't run a test program at all, it doesn't try
22:21.57pooliobut just executes the fourth argument.
22:37.50IriX64so what are we saying here i have a busted x11?
22:39.47IriX64so,,x11_works=no what will happen on success
22:40.28IriX64x11_works gets set to a null?
22:41.44IriX64whats wrong with plain ole [x11_works=yes] ?
22:42.39IriX64gotta reboot ill be back
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22:48.03yukonbobIriX64: what "display thing" are you talking about...?
22:48.51IriX64DISPLAY environment variable brlcad did something about it
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22:49.40IriX64poolio if i change it to just ,[x11_works]   the result is true which means the test passed and i do have that little thing it's testing for
22:49.50IriX64err x11_works=yes
22:50.34yukonbobIriX64: Ahh... ;)
22:53.11IriX64the url for fisheye1 is in the topic if you ewant to look
22:53.17IriX64err want
22:53.26poolioIriX64: Well, I don't think it will execute the ,[x11_works] = yes, it detects you are cross-compiling and doesn't even bother to do AC_TRY_RUN (I think). So for now I'd just hack it apart/comment out/whatever to make it run
22:53.50poolioI don't quite see why that test is being run, it looks like it only is for testing if you are cross compiling
22:53.58IriX64right but one argument is set it to that if true correct?
22:54.17pooliohuh?
22:54.19IriX64only one ,
22:54.39poolioJust comment it out / change it to automatically set x11_works = yes for now, and talk to brlcad when he gets back about why they bother to run that test
22:55.00IriX64good
22:55.45IriX64every time i touch configure.ac he calls me edit happy :P
22:56.50IriX64good to be happy tho, edit or otherwise ;)
22:56.56poolioWell, you are edit happy. There are reasons things are done and checked for in configure.ac and brlcad wants to make sure it compiles and runs on as many systems as possible. So he doens't just wnat to cut out a certain check / modify it so it works for _you_, because that could break the install for many others
22:57.24IriX64you mean nobody else is seeing this?
22:58.31poolioWell, it seems like for some reason or another X11 is automatically disabled if you are cross compiling.(maybe ;))
22:58.41poolioAnd I would presume there is a reason, I just don't know what
22:58.47IriX64mebbe so :)
22:58.53poolioI don't think very many people cross compile brlcad
22:59.21poolio...why are you cross compiling?
23:01.42IriX64oh i see, let me clarify cygwin is not supported, so i follow a code line that is supported and generate code for my system from it
23:02.29IriX64true cross compiling is a ways down the road yet
23:03.08IriX64but already I have grief, most configures bail out saying can't check such and such while cross compiling
23:03.49pooliothat's a bummer. I feel like if you can compile _for_ a system there is no reason why you can't compile _on_ that system
23:04.05IriX64so i cheat and use the build,target,host switches and preprocess configure to provide results based on those.
23:04.57IriX64or on another system is the way i feel about it
23:05.17poolioif you're willing to run cygwin why not just spare yourself a headache and run it in vmware or something
23:05.27IriX64if you're in config.sub, i may support you :)
23:05.46IriX64vmware is costly
23:05.52poolioIt's actually free
23:06.01IriX64since when?
23:06.03poolio(vmware player)
23:06.20IriX64heh thought you meant vmware workstation
23:06.51IriX64i actually have an expired copy on here with warp4 on it
23:06.55pooliono, but if you found someone with vmware workstation and just made an image, you could distribute that image (probalby of a linux install with brl-cad)
23:07.13IriX64?? illegal
23:07.21pooliono, it's entirely legal
23:07.33IriX64how vmware costs money.
23:07.57pooliowell find someone who has bought it and use their computer to do it, or ask brlcad nicely and maybe he could do it. he's got funding :)
23:08.07IriX64:)
23:11.55IriX64see if the BSD or SOLARIS specific stuff successfully builds it means it's working
23:12.28IriX64my latest 7.8.8 had the -DBSD flag set it runs here.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070624

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070624

02:44.39*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1128564797.dsl.bell.ca)
02:45.28IriX64urffff didn't mean to be here sorry.
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09:21.23IriX64POOLIO:  maybe you better tell those people (the dev we talked about) assert is only available on some unix systems, like system III and 5
09:21.52IriX64that dev needs to know :)
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10:37.10IriX64<PROTECTED>
10:38.44IriX64http://rafb.net/p/KzXg3I62.html     heh, I can force an install but what's the point without mged :)
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11:24.00IriX64http://rafb.net/p/hS9mjF30.html   <----- forcing the issue, and i better shutup I guess, my enthusiasm is showing :)
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11:29.31IriX64hah forgot i'm building with tcl/tk 8.5a6 too , bonus :)
11:35.37IriX64poolio: that assert() thing, since not all systems have it i would just find the source for it and include it in something like the util lib  (libbu)
11:36.47IriX64somebody tell poolio if i'm not here when he shows, i got him into this and i'm trying to rectify the shmozle i made.
12:35.32IriX64how the heck did has_sgigl get set?
12:52.40IriX64it's actually using system tcl/tk.
12:53.54IriX64no need for a blow by blow i guess, i'll shut up again
13:57.44IriX64built with tcl/tk8.5a6  lets install it
13:58.40IriX64wonder if it'll run on the windereze side of the house, should its all link static :)
14:07.24IriX64http://rafb.net/p/ndw3Ne58.html   if anybodys interested in an install in progress snapshot :)
14:22.22IriX64http://rafb.net/p/4SOaEK90.html  <--- I get this on the windows side of the house, bear in mind i didn't build tcl/tk but i don't think thats whats wrong
14:25.49IriX64thought so i get it on the cygwin side too, will rebuild with everything selected i guess.
14:32.40IriX64console mode works to the extent of executing fbserv and doing a raytrace :)
14:32.51IriX64now i'll shut up again
16:09.18IriX64that display variable could give me heartburn
16:11.11IriX64doh maybe not :)
16:29.22IriX64attaches to X in console mode but hangs and eventually detaches in gui startup mode
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16:35.10IriX64hah http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos    the brl cad albumn, first pix :)
16:36.58elite01nice
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16:57.26IriX64thanks but it's brlcad teams code :)
16:58.48IriX64bonus ogl works too
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22:16.03IriX64poolio deepest apologies, i checked and assert() is only available on *some unix systems, blame it on me.
22:22.01poolioWait, how is it your fault?
22:22.15poolioIt seems like it's whoever wrote the codes fault that they wrote something that wasn't entirely portable
22:22.15IriX64i suggested commiting it
22:22.21poolioSo did brlcad
22:22.26IriX64true
22:22.39poolioAnd it broke brlcad on some unix systems?
22:29.23IriX64yeah no such file or directory i assume
22:29.23poolioNo worries, I'm new to this thing too, there are plenty of devs that review the commits and when I/whoever breaks something, it is normally quickly fixed
22:29.23poolioOh wait, it hasn't been fixed. Who did it break for?
22:29.23IriX64good
22:29.23IriX64dunno but somebodys gonna get it
22:29.23IriX64fixes it here so im happy
22:29.24poolioWell, assert.h is included in many other parts of brlcad, so I'd assume that brlcad is designed for only systems that have the assert.h header
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22:35.14IriX64ah i didn't know that
22:35.45jimmyzhi all
22:36.05jimmyzirix, do you use sgi gear?
22:37.19IriX64no i don't
22:37.43jimmyzoh, sorry
22:37.54IriX64quite allright :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070625

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070625

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11:55.37pooliomornin'
13:37.21pooliobrlcad: morning. is there a way to simultaneously read/write to a database?
13:37.36poolioor maybe a non-destructive way to write to a file (append)
13:37.52pooliowdb_fopen() overwrites the database
13:42.38pooliobrlcad: ah nevermind, found it
13:44.20poolioSo my other question is: is there  a way to read/write to the same file? currently I'm opening database,creating new shapes, closing database, opening it for reading (get db_i) and read each object (get rt_i) and then close it and all over again
14:10.15brlcadthere is a way to read/write to the same file so long as you use the librt interface (db_open) instead of the libwdb interface (wdb_open)
14:12.10pooliobrlcad: Well I think I got it working, I use db_open to get the db_i, then call wdb_open with that db_i
14:12.36pooliowdb_open seems to be moreso part of the "librt interface" -- wdb_open() is in src/librt
14:13.26poolioThe thing I have to remember is wdb_close() frees the db_i, and calls db_close() for me so I don't db_close() in my program
14:18.32brlcadthe "w" in wdb stands for write(-only) database
14:19.17brlcadsome of the write-database routines are provided by librt, but are still hazily part of libwdb
14:21.04pooliowell the issue is that I need the mk_shape routines in libwdb, and to use them I need an rt_wdb pointer for those
14:21.41poolioand to get that I think I need to run wdb_open() even though the database is remaining read/write (it's working...)
14:22.38brlcadif you have an rtip, you have a wdbp
14:24.13brlcadthe dbip has a wdbp in it
14:25.23poolioah d'oh. thanks.
14:26.16brlcadso if you dbopen, just access the dbi_wdbp  (or conversely if you have an rti, rti_dbip->dbi_wdbp
14:26.37pooliobrlcad: yeah I was just browsing the struct info, thanks :)
14:30.30brlcadthere are forward/backward pointers in most of the top-level structs (application, rt_i, db_i, soltab, db_tree_state)
14:30.49brlcadnot that you'd implicitly know that :)
14:31.56poolioand what's the default behavior for name collisions with mk_shape?
14:32.36pooliobrlcad: errr "NULL rt_wdb pointer"
14:33.01pooliooh d'oh.
14:33.17poolioI should really try to error check things before whining in IRC
14:41.17pooliobrlcad: Wait, so should that pointer be automatically initialized to an rt_wdb, because it's NULL and looks like I have to set it myself
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15:45.10brlcaddepends on the calls you've made, how you got/get the "thing" you start with (presumably an rti or a dbi)
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17:52.02IriX64hah it works :)
17:55.41RodGallowGlassregister early register often :)
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20:31.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Fix a bug causing getLeaves to not work... reference typo
20:33.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: Add prep code to cache bezier spans of trimming curves; Remove dead code; add some debugging diagnostics
20:35.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: fix getLeaves (non)reference bug
20:38.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_nurbscurve.cpp: fix memory leak in NumIntersectionsWith(); hack override MakePiecewiseBezier to generate bezier span cache... this needs to be, um, polished a bit
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20:41.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_nurbscurve.h: add CacheBezierSpan method for use during raytrace prep time
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23:34.39RodGallowGlassphear this compiler :)
23:53.04RodGallowGlassanybody remeber what the proper arguments are to -mfpmath=     ??
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070626

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070626

00:56.10*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:01.01yukonbobRodGallowGlass: man gcc says "387", "sse", or "see,387"
02:01.15yukonbob*ssc,387
02:01.28yukonbob*sse,387 ;)
02:10.39RodGallowGlassahh the "other" processor on the chip, thanks man ;)
02:51.05RodGallowGlasshttp://Irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/stuff          shot of what im doing at the moment (I like to share) :)
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11:53.37drmadhello everybody
11:54.38drmadI'm trying to install brlcad and I have an error message, can someone help please ?
12:02.31drmadThis is probably just a small problem :~
12:11.06yukonbob_drmad: tell us what the msg is :)
12:23.32drmadmake[4]: *** Pas de règle pour fabriquer la cible « jove-tutorial », nécessaire pour « all-am ». Arrêt.
12:23.32drmadmake[4]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/jove »
12:23.32drmadmake[3]: *** [all] Erreur 2
12:23.32drmadmake[3]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/jove »
12:23.32drmadmake[2]: *** [all-recursive] Erreur 1
12:23.35drmadmake[2]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other »
12:23.37drmadmake[1]: *** [all-recursive] Erreur 1
12:23.39drmadmake[1]: quittant le répertoire « /home/jpc/brlcad/brlcad-7.10.0/src »
12:24.07drmadmake: *** [all-recursive] Erreur 1
12:24.07drmadbash-3.1$
12:59.23drmadit means "no target to install jove-tutotial"
12:59.52elite01i think you should configure with --disable-jove or soemthing like that
13:01.54drmadwhat for jove is used in brlcad ?
13:02.08elite01i think it's some text editor
13:02.15elite01i also believe no one needs it :)
13:05.21drmadI have found jove in slackware repository, it try again
13:06.38drmadI have found jove in slackware repository, I try again
13:08.26drmadI never used any CAD software, is brlcad good to start with ?   What is the best tutorial to use ?
13:09.03elite01the "introduction to mged" at http://www.brlcad.org/ is ok
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13:15.19drmadit compiles hardly...
13:22.13poolioMORNIN
13:22.20pooliooopsies.
13:43.42pooliobrlcad: I have some questions for you when you return :)
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17:00.49*** join/#brlcad avegas (n=vegas@71-36-200-5.eugn.qwest.net)
17:00.58avegashi there,
17:01.07drmad<PROTECTED>
17:02.29avegasare you folks mainly developers, or users, or both?
17:03.11RodGallowGlasssome of us like me, are neither and just play around :)
17:03.36avegas:D
17:04.49avegasso, a few friends of mine want to try and build a web based CAD program, and I'm wondering if the BRL-CAD source would be a good thing to read around in to maybe get some ideas
17:05.31archivistweb based !!!!
17:05.32avegasand it also seems interesting that BRL-CAD is split into all these modular little utilities, that could maybe be repurposed to do server-side work
17:05.56avegasyeah, I think it's a semi-ridiculous idea, but I like working on those
17:06.25avegasit would be in service of this whole 'fab-lab' community-oriented desktop fabrication thing
17:06.37avegas:D
17:06.37archivistI have started on a diagramming tool for databases thats web based
17:06.56avegasare you using canvas, or svg, or something else?
17:07.05archivistsomething else
17:07.21archivistcomments here http://www.archivist.info/search/index.php/Erd and beta test here http://www.archivist.info/wench/erd.php
17:07.39archivistlots to do yet
17:07.51avegasthat's pretty standard
17:07.54avegaslooks neat
17:08.15archivistas a 3d modeller user I dont think the web is right for that
17:09.46archivisttoo much to send in each direction
17:10.23RodGallowGlassarchivist... ^5's
17:16.52avegasyeah, it's main initial goal would be for pcbs
17:20.09archivisthmm Ive been a pcb designer in the past
17:20.53archivistare you thinking autorouting or hand editing
17:23.50RodGallowGlassarchivist, you a p-cad user?
17:24.00archivistyes
17:24.07RodGallowGlassthought so
17:24.17archivist5 on dos
17:24.35RodGallowGlassis there a good windows version yet?
17:25.05archivistdunno ones ive seen seem backwards in useability
17:25.15RodGallowGlasshave'nt played with that in 10 years
17:26.02RodGallowGlasscame up with a program to dump the plot on the screen to laser since print screen couldn't do it
17:26.19RodGallowGlassrather than plotting the whole file
17:26.24archivistheh worth keeping 486's going for
17:26.30RodGallowGlassyes
17:26.49RodGallowGlassplenty of spares ;)
17:28.00RodGallowGlasslaserjet II still have the program somewhere if you want it it was a little tsr
17:29.12archivistI keep a postscript HP for prints, view the plots in pcgerber
17:29.28RodGallowGlassthat too works
17:29.48RodGallowGlassthis laser also had the plotter cartridge
17:31.17RodGallowGlassthe autorouter is pretty good, rarely got caught in a no trace possible condition, depending on the density
17:36.38archivistcant have done tight boards then
17:38.12RodGallowGlassjust small stuff 15"x15"
17:38.27RodGallowGlasspie plates :)
17:38.57RodGallowGlasshand editing is .... interesting :)
17:39.44RodGallowGlassfound the source called it vgaprn
17:39.53archivistI normally had restrictions on layers so had to do a lot of hand routing
17:40.14RodGallowGlassunderstood, you play serious play.
17:40.40RodGallowGlassits only two k how much does rafb allow?
17:40.45RodGallowGlass2k
17:41.18archivistdunno
17:41.25RodGallowGlasserf cgaprn
17:41.38RodGallowGlassdunno what vgaprn is
17:42.03RodGallowGlasswhen this thing frees up a little ill post it on rafb
17:42.20archivistok
17:51.07RodGallowGlasshttp://rafb.net/p/sVOzsI89.html
17:54.10RodGallowGlassgotta reboot be right back, well sorta right back
17:54.16*** part/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca)
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18:00.20IriX64http://rafb.net/p/d5Ya2c43.html   archivist this one has nothing to do with prtscrn :)
18:08.22IriX64http://rafb.net/p/46D3VG31.html    <----- archivist, my system cooks, I'm sure you're familiar with this (it's beautiful :))
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18:12.17IriX64salute :)
18:15.58brlcaddrmad: 7.10.0 had a file missing for jove, but jove is entirely non-critical and can be disabled with --disable-jove
18:16.06pooliobrlcad: I have many a question for you.
18:17.26brlcadpoolio: okay, fire away
18:17.33brlcadi'm in and out, so some might have a delay ;)
18:17.47pooliobrlcad: Remember when we were talking and said global scale doesn't matter, like a sphere with a radius of 4 and a sphere of radius 2 should be equivalent (if those are the only shapes you are comparing). Well the issue is that when raytracing, the depth of the sphere (where you get the hit_dist ances from) is going to change depending on scale. So do you think it would be a good idea to normalize the rays to their bounding box or should
18:18.15poolioAlso, is there a way to modify a shape in the database or should I just rewrite it every time I update it?
18:19.15poolioAnd the big issue I had was in thinking of how to generate a random population. For a circle it's somewhat easy, you pick a point within the bounding box, but you're leaving out a lot of points with that... so for a sphere the acceptable possible center locations are going to be less than the spheres radius away from the bounding box of the source
18:19.25poolioI use source to reference the data that we are trying to extract shapes from
18:19.48poolioSo for a sphere it'd be trivial: randomly pick a radius in a certain range, compute possible points, and pick those points
18:20.54poolioThe issue comes with other shapes... I'd have to come up with an algorithm to have a given shapes bounding box in terms of the input points and parameters. Like with an rpp neither of the min/max points need to lie in the bounding box of the source for the rpp's bounding box to intersect the source
18:21.23poolioso the main issue I'm worried about is how to randomly generate points that will have the shape those points belong to's bounding box intersect the source's bounding box
18:21.30poolioalright I'll stop asking there, I have more though :)
18:23.58pooliodisclaimer: I may drop out, crazy thunderstorms.
18:28.06brlcadwhether you normalize the shotlines to the bounding box size or not is entirely up to you :)
18:28.16brlcadI think there's merit to both approaches
18:28.55brlcadI *think* normalizing will remove an optimization variable entirely, which should help convergence, but can't say that definitiely .. just intuitively
18:29.08poolioThat's my thought, it's just one less dimension
18:29.23pooliothe question is whether the time it takes to normalize the rays would be faster or slower than having the GA learn the scale
18:29.33brlcadI would just rewrite the shape for each new population -- write out a new .g file even -- that takes *no* time in comparison to the fitness evaluation
18:29.58poolioWell I'm not writing out a new .g file, I'm overwriting the current shapes. Would you say have a different .g file for each generation?
18:30.19brlcadthe only issue that comes to mind for normalizing is that you'll need BB's that are aligned to the grid of rays
18:30.51pooliobrlcad: wait, are the bounding boxes that are calculated OBBs?
18:31.26brlcadyeah, I was thinking a new .g for each genotype even .. so you have a very simple mapping of input to result output candidates
18:31.58pooliowait, so one candidate solution for each .g file?
18:32.11brlcadthat would let you do things like save the best .g from a given population and save it to a given dir, so you can see/keep the best from each iteration
18:32.47poolioalright
18:33.02poolioand are the bounding boxes that rt_prep calculates OBBs?
18:33.08brlcadwhether it's each candidate or each population shouldn't really matter -- if you find it easier to do it per population, that'd work
18:33.28poolioI think I'll leave it per population and I can write a quick routine to extract and dump the best individuals from each into a new .g
18:33.38brlcadooh, even better than OBB .. you can probably just use the bounding sphere (which I think is computed after prep)
18:33.54brlcadthe radius/diameter of the bounding sphere is probably enough to normalize
18:34.20brlcadrt_prep calculates AABB's iirc
18:35.48poolioalright
18:36.04poolioand any ideas in terms of generating random candidates ?
18:37.12poolioand how do I rotate an object in code?
18:37.41brlcaddepends -- primitives are positioned/oriented in space exactly
18:37.50brlcadcombinations have matrices
18:38.05poolioexact oreintation would be fine. i didn't see anything in libwdb about orientation
18:40.36brlcadpart of mk_comb for combinations
18:40.56pooliowell I think I'm only going to be working with primitives and regions. I don't really see a need for combinations as of now
18:40.58brlcadit returns a matrix that you can set that is written during wdb_close
18:41.10brlcadregions are combinations
18:41.17pooliooh. oops
18:41.30pooliowell what about rotating individual primitives?
18:41.34brlcadcombinations aren't necessarily regions, but all regions are combinations
18:42.01brlcadi wouldn't worry about rotating individual primitives -- it's implicit in their parameters
18:42.02pooliook. Yeah I saw  some examples in proc-db
18:42.25pooliobrlcad: is it? I'm creating shapes (currently just spheres) with mk_sph() and there's no specification for orientation
18:42.33brlcade.g. if you want an ellipsoid that stretches down the X axis, that's part of the A/B vectors you have to provide
18:42.50poolioOh I see
18:43.06brlcadpoolio: what's the difference between a sphere facing down the X and one facing down the Y axis?
18:43.24brlcadthey're both spheres that consume exactly the same space ;)
18:43.29poolioThere is none, but I was thinking about rectangles
18:43.30brlcadeffectively unoriented
18:43.40pooliobut I guess you'd just have the min/max points moved and that's rotation
18:44.15brlcadright, you define those corner points or plane equations that determines the orientation
18:44.28brlcadpart of the nature of implicit geometry
18:44.33poolioalright. so orientation is implicit in the creation of the geoometry
18:44.37poolio:)
18:45.25brlcadyeah, part of the primitive genotype
18:45.27poolioso the only thing the GA needs to learn are the order of shapes and operators in between them, and theoretically everything else is going to be part of the parameters of the shapes that the combination is made up of
18:45.42brlcadyeah
18:46.38poolioalright cool, so for nwo I'm going to try to get it to evolve a properly oriented rectangle adn then tomorrow I'll need some help on going from graphs --> trees and workign with that. I read through some of the code but wasn't entirely clear
18:47.10poolioAlso I might have to have a sort of meta-GA to try to find the best parameters for the GA -- mutation rates, crossover rates, etc...
18:47.41brlcadstart with a sphere
18:47.46poolioI have the sphere working
18:47.46brlcadit's the simplest case
18:47.50poolioThe only thing to learn with a sphere is scale
18:47.55pooliowhich will be eliminated in a couple minutes
18:47.59poolioso there is nothing to learn with a sphere at all
18:48.05brlcadbut actually evolving the sphere?
18:48.09brlcadsphere has a position
18:48.17poolioYes, but the position is irrelevant
18:48.29brlcadyou know that
18:48.34poolioThe grid of rays is oreinted to the bounding box of the individual
18:48.37brlcadthe GA doesn't know that
18:49.24brlcadyou can skip it if you think it's too simple, but I still wouldn't jump to arb8's .. they have too many parameters
18:49.36brlcadmaybe go with an ellipsoid then
18:49.36poolioSo what would you recommend?
18:49.40poolioalright
18:50.00brlcadanother good one would be a torus
18:50.00poolioThe only thing to worry about in a single-primitive population is the orientation
18:50.12brlcadvery few parameters, but rather complex shape
18:50.22poolioalright.
18:50.48brlcadthen maybe move to arb8 or tgc
18:50.57poolioalso the issue with single shapes is it's fairly trivial, the only thing you have is mutation so it's just choosing random numbers or modifying the current one until it gets there
18:50.59brlcadthose will be two of the harder shapes I'd imagine
18:51.48pooliomind me asking what a tgc is?
18:51.56brlcadtruncated general cone
18:52.08brlcadthe entire category of conics are represented via the tgc
18:52.15pooliooh wow
18:52.20pooliocool :)
18:52.55poolioAlso I didn't mean jump to arb8, I meant RPP, but yeah...
18:54.48brlcadyou have seen http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Primitives3_grouped_labels.png  yes?
18:55.51pooliono! very helpful :)
18:56.05brlcadall five of the generalized conic shapes in the lower left are tgc
18:56.22brlcadall of the boxes grouped up top are arb's
18:56.48drmadThank you brlcad, but it compiled fine after installing jove. I have to learn now...
18:57.21brlcaddrmad: the tutorials on http://brlcad.org (particularly the introduction to mged) are probably a good place to start, or just poke around all of the commands
18:59.58drmadyes, this one is already displayed on my computer... I read it
19:00.04pooliobrlcad: does brl-cad have some sort of pseudo-random number generator implemented or can i use rand()?
19:00.29brlcadit does, and you should use it (as it's considerably faster and repeatable) ;)
19:04.05brlcadpoolio: see include/bn.h .. there's even a simple snippet on how to use them
19:04.38brlcadthere's no problem using rand() either, but you should definitely set and record the seed in your results so that runs can be entirely repeated
19:04.45pooliobrlcad: I saw the table of random numbers, but I think I want something more random than that?
19:05.08poolioOh alright, for testing purposes
19:05.32brlcadpoolio: there's a lot of math behind the table of random numbers, in terms of variability, random sampling, mathematical distribution, etc
19:06.23pooliobrlcad: so you would suggest just using them?
19:06.38brlcadwhatever floats your boat :)
19:06.49poolioalrighty
19:07.00pooliothanks for answering all my questions, I've been struggling a bit the past two days :P
19:07.47brlcadbn's random numbers will be considerably faster than using rand(), not that that probably matters for this, but the sample distribution should also likely be more "well-behaved"
19:08.00poolioalright cool
19:08.11brlcadto the point that it shouldn't matter -- you're not likely to get artifacts at all from either
19:45.05IriX64mother was right, if you can't follow the conversation stay out of it :)
19:49.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/453cAr18.html   <---- it took me an hour to fake this, did i get it right ;)
20:03.10elite01IriX64, fake it? why not ./configure >something?
20:04.04IriX64real configure ran it's making now
20:05.37IriX64http://rafb.net/p/b4oQC331.html  <---- see, I figure if i'm going to be laffed at for my choice of system i may as well play the part :)
20:06.23brlcadthose are random, useless pastebins
20:06.31IriX64not really
20:06.39brlcadentirely -- what is the point??
20:06.53IriX64trying to lighten the mood
20:07.03brlcadthe mood is light
20:07.14elite01thanks to IriX64 :)
20:07.19IriX64then i'll retire to my corner of the room now :)
20:07.20brlcadheh
20:07.54poolioI'm already floating away...
20:08.09IriX64drop a byte as an anchor poolio
20:08.16brlcadit's just annoying to click on a link that conveys nothing of value.. not a build failure that needs fixing, not even a successful compilation of something that was hard to do (i.e. some sort of acheivement)
20:08.32brlcadit's just .. "noise" :)
20:08.42IriX64ill preface such from now on a s this is a useless paste
20:09.09poolioI think I've lost it. I just spent like an hour debugging code that wasn't broken. I had a character at the beginning of my header file....GRRRR
20:09.11brlcadno, that's not the point -- if you know it's useless, then don't paste it
20:09.32IriX64sigh... must i adhere to that
20:09.42brlcadwe've had this talk before, I really do not want to have it again
20:09.54IriX64ill adhere to it then
20:10.06brlcadthank you
20:10.16IriX64blog shots allowed?
20:10.36pooliobrlcad: is there some sort of internal structure that stores all of a given shape's properties?
20:11.13brlcadIriX64: in moderation when they actually share something .. _interesting_
20:11.23IriX64sure..thanks
20:11.29brlcadpoolio: for each primitive, yes
20:12.15brlcadthere's a struct arb_internal for example
20:12.15brlcadpoolio: most of them are in rtgeom.h though raytrace.h has a few too
20:12.29pooliobrlcad: but if I want some sort of universal shape container... that's not in existence?
20:12.47brlcader, what do you mean?
20:13.16brlcadthere are serialized an unserialized forms if that's what you mean
20:13.17poolioLike if I want a standard node in a tree, where that node represents the shape and the tree is the combination, is there a way to do that? (isn't it done this way internally?)
20:13.31poolioerr not really
20:13.54poolioI'll try to figure it out in my brain tomorrow when I work with trees
20:14.22brlcadif I understand you correctly, rt_db_internal might be what you're looking for
20:14.37poolioalright thanks
20:39.37brlcadalternatively, you could deal with struct directory pointers, though that entirely encapsulates the geometry
20:39.51brlcadat that level, they are just generic named objects
20:41.05brlcadwhen you get a handle on a directory pointer (e.g. from db_lookup()), you can get that rt_db_internal via rt_db_get_internal()
20:44.09pooliobrlcad: the issue is say "mutating" an object
20:44.26poolioI want a sort of wrapper, but I might have to do it like if(this_shape){modify these parameters...}
20:49.09brlcadwell, the absolute "generic" container is the serialized form (which is part of what gets written to disk)
20:49.36pooliohmm yeah, i'm not sure that's what I want to deal with though
20:49.44poolioI guess it's probably better to just specialize the mutations for each shape
20:50.01brlcadeach primitive has a export5 routine (e.g. rt_ell_export5()) that takes the rt_db_internal and fills in a bu_external (which is just a generic binary data array
20:51.02brlcadyou could actually work with those bu_external's an an entirely generic fashion -- all the data in the idb_ptr is the parameters to the primitive without any names or types associated
20:51.31poolioso I could just mutate the binary data?
20:51.40brlcadso you could tweak actual values/bits there, just that you can conceivably make invalid geometry too -- boxes with twisted faces, inside out shapes, etc
20:51.45brlcadyeah, you could
20:52.03poolioWell the thing is I don't want to corrupt the data like that
20:52.17poolioI also don't want to do just straight mutation: replacing values with randomly generated ones
20:52.26brlcadit would be interesting to see how well the GA adjusted (if it even would) to invalid mutations
20:52.26poolioI'm thinking also to have mutations that just add/subtract to the current ones
20:52.34brlcadsince the fitness would jump to zero
20:52.40pooliobrlcad: well would the raytracer be able to work with it?
20:52.51poolioI feel like it'd just crash
20:52.51brlcaddepends on case
20:53.11brlcadwouldn't likely crash, would just likely drop that object saying it's not valid
20:53.21brlcadas if you had no object
20:53.34poolioyeah
20:53.44brlcadat worst, could abort rt during prep (or perhaps crash.. hard to say without testing)
20:53.46poolioand if I did good error checking then it would probalby just drop the shape and randomly create a new individual
20:54.08pooliowell something to think about, I'll try to make the GA framework flexible to allow for all sorts of testing and stuff in the upcoming weeks
20:54.16brlcadthe primitives are supposed to check themselves during prep .. so if it made something invalid, it's up to their prep routine to stop
20:54.24poolioThat's what's bugging me now...how to organize and lay things out and represent things. I'm trying to make it easier for myself in the future
20:54.45brlcadprobably easiest to just have a hook for each primitive shape you support
20:55.06brlcadyou have to know about them anyways since you're supporting only a subset from the start
20:55.46brlcadmaybe just keep each one contained in its own file to make it obvious how to add evolutionary support for new primitives
20:56.44brlcadlonger term solution would be a routine in librt that did the object-type manipulation for you somehow
20:58.35pooliothat'd be handy. Maybe an array of "parameters" that pointed into the struct
20:58.39poolioactually I could implement that for my shapes
20:58.45pooliomake the front-end of my app a bit prettier
21:05.10IriX64yukonbob, why would i get an editor faceplate when starting mged from an xterm prompt, but not when starting from an ntvdm?
21:05.33IriX64framebuffer comes up tho
21:07.06brlcadpoolio: one other solution could be to use the serialized mged tcl form for each primitive, which is just a text string -- but then you still have the issue of what is valid and what is not, though it's obvious what the numbers are for the most part
21:08.00pooliobrlcad: I think it makes more sense to just write hooks for each shape, but that is an interesting idea
21:09.46brlcadi agree
21:09.50brlcadjust throwing it out there
21:10.49brlcadthe only real way to encapsulate the behavior would be to add the ability to "randomly mutate" to each primitive, similar to how each primitive defines their existing behaviors
21:11.04brlcadthen you could just call a generic mutate() hook func
21:12.43poolioYeah but teh thing is what I want to mutate and how I want it to mutate is going to change / i would like it to be app-controlled
21:12.57poolioso if you want "Mutate" to mean replace certain values or if you want "mutate" to mean modify them X amount...
21:16.39brlcadyup, becomes very specific
21:16.45brlcadand tied to the GA
21:17.02brlcadand has very little to do with the geometry other than maybe asking "is this valid"
21:17.14poolioyeah oh well
21:17.28poolioI'm trying to keep the code modularized though so if this a) works and b) is used, it just might be maintainable :)
21:19.54brlcada discussion came up in a meeting earlier today about how useful it would be to be able to go from a polygonal model to a csg or brep/nurbs model ;)
21:20.04pooliowooot.
21:20.05brlcadeven for simple shapes
21:20.07poolioand what'd you say?
21:20.22brlcadonly that you'd have it done next week
21:20.44poolio...
21:20.45pooliobastard.
21:21.01pooliobrlcad: I also have to do that huge sf86....I'm gonna die.
21:21.01brlcad:)
21:21.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Increase root finding iterations and added edge miss tolerance
21:21.34pooliohow simple shapes are you talking? Single primitives or just multiple in a union or ...?
21:22.10brlcadsimple parts like a gear head or a piston, or a door knob, etc .. so not single primitives, but not more than a handful if simplified
21:22.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: Change the number of iterations for debugging purposes...
21:22.48pooliobrlcad: Yeah I think the GA if working is a great way to create "rough models" of say polygonal models
21:22.55poolioI don't think it's good for finding the optimal solution
21:23.03pooliobut I think it's very good at finding near-optimal solutions
21:23.15IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad album , first picture (7.10.1 with X also have it with ogl)
21:23.50IriX64but fbserv won't exec from mged, does fine from the dos prompt tho.
21:24.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix yet another (hopefully final) knot-related bug
21:25.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/n_iges.cpp: fix a bug in IGES parsing where an empty field should yield a default numerical value
21:26.48IriX64haha rotated it to 45 degrees on the x y z axis drew it fine
21:27.01IriX64shall i post it
21:27.09yukonbobIriX64: I think I don't know what ntvdm is...
21:27.23IriX64ahh ok thanks
21:27.31yukonbobso, what is it?
21:27.38IriX64oh man a dos box
21:27.42IriX64on windows
21:28.02pooliobrlcad: is there a commercial solution to what I'm working on? I mean I'd be surprised if someone hadn't done it before
21:28.25yukonbobIriX64: like "cmd.exe"?
21:28.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: start work on jungle gym algo, implemented in brep_edge_check method (try to prevent acne due to tracing through a crack in the manifold)
21:28.46IriX64yukonbob yes exactly the C:\ prompt
21:29.18IriX64may have it fixed
21:29.38IriX64needs the DISPLAY variable thanks to you you lout :)
21:29.57yukonbobthe best way to fix it, and improve a few other things is to install a BSD...  ;)
21:30.14IriX64free or commercial :)
21:30.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: debug divergent root finder for pullback curves (investigate alternate methodology?)
21:30.53brlcad~ntvdm is a Virtual DOS machine, the name of technology developed by Microsoft that allows older 16-bit MSDOS programs to run in a virtual machine on newer hardware and operating systems.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTVDM for details
21:30.54ibotbrlcad: okay
21:31.29brlcadcmd.exe isn't the same as ntvdm
21:31.33yukonbob?sure everything about brlcad is at least 32-bit.
21:31.35yukonbob*surely
21:31.39pooliobrlcad: does jlowenz work withyou?
21:31.55IriX64i'm trying to keep from going to hell brlcad :)
21:33.09IriX64ok the cmd.exe prompt *not the command.com prompt altho i can run that prompt too on this system :)
21:36.19*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
21:37.19IriX64ok the 45 degree shot is first pix on that albumn now
22:10.48IriX64hah up.bat and up it comes
22:12.31IriX64what was i doing up ar 5:22am anyway :)
22:13.55IriX64yukonbob: i should have responded that's ok, i don't know what edlin is :P
22:20.05IriX64things useless, it cant find any of the programs in bin, even when you cd to bin
22:20.26IriX64this one i'm reporting, you need documentation?
22:22.24IriX64http://rafb.net/p/WR5l8A24.html
22:38.38*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:41.15poolioIriX64: have you tried running them with their paths? like ./filename.exe
23:41.19poolio(just a thought, I don't run windows)
23:44.37IriX64man it's mged's exec command oh i see just a sec
23:45.28IriX64that works
23:45.39IriX64exec ./asc2g
23:46.19IriX64but without=no such file or directory
23:48.05IriX64you think it's a windows thing? soons this install is done ill check that
23:48.23IriX64cleaned out the old build sigh
23:49.10IriX64but it worked previous to last update sat night on the windows side
23:52.43IriX64a jun 20 build works on both side man
23:52.50IriX64something happened
23:53.39pooliowell it's moreso a unix thing
23:53.54poolioor you need to set some sort of PATH variable, I'm not sure how this applies on windows though
23:54.04IriX64http://rafb.net/p/meVPax19.html
23:55.10IriX64ill play around a little will let you know
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070627

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070627

00:12.26IriX64my apologies, it works on cygwin side, latest build but not on windows side and path is set
00:17.23IriX64no worries on your side this critters mine :)
02:01.28IriX64poolio: it's the slashes (direction of them) that's getting me i think, i'll work something out
02:37.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/tcl.c libbu/bu_tcl.c): Eliminated more direct access of interp->result
02:51.03*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
06:15.25*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
07:56.11*** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru)
07:58.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove interp->result check
09:00.22*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
09:19.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): remove the final few remaining references to interp->result (both comments and code)
09:55.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: have not seen the walk_dispatcher bug in quite some time, so that just leaves the sketch editor holding up release
09:57.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: say where the log file is
10:04.56*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-100-98.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:07.58*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
10:11.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: make clean can clean up after benchmark runs too now. encourage clean instead of clobber so that the run files are kept.
10:33.15*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-078-191.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:58.37*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
11:59.57AchiestDragonhi all
12:01.49*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
14:03.44pooliobrlcad: late night commits :)
14:17.54brlcadsomething like that :)
14:17.59brlcadhowdy AchiestDragon
14:18.05brlcadAchiestDragon: funny post
14:18.16AchiestDragon:)
14:18.20pooliowait brlcad, did you sleep? :P
14:18.26brlcadwhat's that?
14:18.50poolioeek.
14:19.00pooliosaw premier of live free or die hard, highly recommend it
14:19.15brlcadwas thinking about that just an hour ago
14:27.56*** join/#brlcad cad63 (n=a05bf84d@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:29.09brlcadhello cad63
14:29.26AchiestDragonthinks i have some dependancy problems trying  archer  on linux atm
14:29.40brlcadthere are issues unless you've fixed them
14:29.46brlcaddoesn't load the blt library iirc
14:29.54*** join/#brlcad TME (n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov)
14:29.55brlcadso you get a loading window, but nothing after that
14:30.07AchiestDragonError in startup script: couldn't load file "/usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so": /usr/brlcad/lib/tkimg.so: undefined symbol: png_read_des
14:30.12AchiestDragonyes
14:30.14brlcadah, yeah, tkimg
14:30.16brlcadsame thing
14:30.34AchiestDragonhave a problem with mged also
14:31.41TMEI'm trying to build a demo app off of rtexample.c and am getting compiler errors when I try to call rt_builddir
14:31.55TMESorry, I meant rt_dirbuild
14:32.28TMEThe error is g++  -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include/brlcad -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include -g -O0 -c test.cc
14:32.28TMEtest.cc:31: error: at this point in file
14:32.28TMEmake: *** [test.o] Error 1
14:32.38AchiestDragoni have a  matrox g200  quad head graphics card and a  matrox g550 dual head card  in this system , set with xinerama so the desktop is spread over 6 monitors , but the framebuffer doses not update on some of them                                          
14:33.54brlcadTME: does test.cc have main()?  if you're linking, you need to specify the libraries too
14:33.54AchiestDragonbut that maybe this machine as i have some problems with xconfig at startup and need to work arround them at power on
14:34.43brlcadTME: there should be an example compile line at the top of rtexample.c that includes the link
14:35.31TMEbrlcad: The code links, I only get a compile failure when I add the rtip = rt_dirbuild("test.g", idbuf, sizeof(idbuf)); statement
14:36.19brlcadTME: that makes sense if that's the first external call you're making
14:36.35brlcadsounds like you're missing the libraries on the compile line
14:36.58brlcade.g. to compile rtexample, the line needs to be something like: cc -I/usr/brlcad/include/brlcad -L/usr/brlcad/lib -o rtexample rtexample.c -lbu -lrt -lm
14:37.20TMEMy make goes as follows:g++  -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include/brlcad -I/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/include -g -O0 -c test.cc
14:37.35TMEg++ -Xlinker -rpath . -Xlinker -rpath /data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/lib-o test.x test.o -L/data/vendors/brlcad-7.10.0/lib -lrt -lbn -lbu -lopenNURBS -ltcl8.5 -lpthread -ldl -lm
14:37.48brlcadah, that looks better
14:38.07TMEthe error I get on compile is
14:38.53TMEdid that go through
14:39.13brlcadnope
14:39.21brlcadtry pastebinning it
14:39.25brlcad~pastebin
14:39.25ibot[pastebin] a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
14:40.39Laniakeabrlcad: I think the bot should paste the pastebin description to pastebin. This way he's flooding the channel ;-)
14:40.52AchiestDragonlol
14:41.03Laniakeabrlcad: does ibot have a Megahal capability?
14:41.33TMEpastebin.ca/591963
14:42.22brlcad~megahal
14:42.25iboti heard megahal is a cheap interface to an enormously huge text file full of crap or at http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/
14:42.49brlcadTME: aha, thanks
14:42.54brlcadTME: what version are you on?
14:43.41brlcadah, never mind -- i see your link line
14:45.55TMEsee http://pastebin.ca/591971 for example app
14:45.58brlcadTME: I believe that issue is related to prototypes, and should be fixed on CVS HEAD .. but not in 7.10.0 -- try adding -DUSE_PROTOTYPES to your CPPFLAGS
14:46.19TMEI'll give it a go...
14:46.58TMEcool, that worked
14:47.14brlcadgreat
14:47.44TMEI noticed that I had to include libopenNURBS on the link line, is that new to 7.10.0?
14:47.45brlcadyeah, that's annoying -- still cleaning out the headers so that they don't assume our own brlcad_config.h is available
14:48.10brlcadUSE_PROTOTYPES is defined in an autoconf build usually, but not in other situations
14:48.31TMEshould I move to CVS HEAD?
14:48.37brlcadyes, openNURBS is new to 7.10.0 -- it's part of an entirely new NURBS/BREP capability
14:49.19brlcadthere should be a brlcad-config script that will tell you the libraries you need, or at least that were used
14:49.22brlcad-L/usr/brlcad/lib -lrt -lbn -lbu -lstdc++ -ltcl -lc -lm -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g
14:49.25brlcade.g. $ brlcad-config --libs rt
14:50.00TMEcool, I just used nm until I found the missing defines
14:50.42brlcadTME: it's up to you regarding cvs head -- things change and are fixed more rapidly there, but it's also not 100% stable 100% of the time of course because it's actively changing
14:51.09brlcadmishaps like the jove file missing, however, are quickly fixed
14:51.32TMEahhh, you include libstdc++ on the link-line, that's how you still use C
14:51.38brlcad:)
14:51.51brlcad-fexeceptions is also required if you're using gcc
14:52.07brlcadotherwise you'll end up with internal C++ exception handlers not being resolved
14:52.26TMEgenerally, I build C++ apps and only use C for numeric kernels so I can use restrict for better loop unrolling
14:53.13TMEthanks for the help, I'll go give this a spin, but I'll probably be back to get some advice on building brlcad
14:53.20TMEwith NVIDIA libGL
14:53.27brlcadbrl-cad's libraries are vastly C-only, performance oriented, etc -- but adding nurbs/brep support is such a major effort that it's use was warranted (and openNURBS is entirely C++)
14:54.01brlcadif you do use CVS HEAD, I'd suggest hanging out on irc .. i'm usually here 24/7, barring a couple hours here and there
14:54.18brlcadcan generally answer these sorts of questions quickly
14:54.24TMEthanks
14:54.27brlcadnp
14:57.09brlcaderm, I was around .. save for a few hours in the morning :)
14:57.22pooliojah. that's when i got frustrated and tossed my monitor out the window though
14:57.43brlcadheh
14:58.34brlcadhm, I really should get the new website online if only to set up a knowledge base
14:58.55brlcadfor now, though, it's time for lunch me thinks
14:59.03pooliotime for my breakfast. :)
15:21.20Laniakeathe http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch/hal/ link is a deadlink
15:25.18AchiestDragonwell solid modeling takes on a diferent form when you fail to have modeling software to do it  http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Tinybug-outside-1.jpg&oldid=604
15:29.50poolioAchiestDragon: cool, making a spidey?
15:30.10AchiestDragonyes
15:33.08brlcadAchiestDragon: nifty
15:33.43brlcadLaniakea: yeah, I noticed.. no idea what hal was anyways other than as it relates to HAL ;)
15:34.07Laniakeabrlcad: does brl-cad already compile on OpenBSD?
15:34.15brlcadit should with no problems
15:34.30Laniakeabrlcad: does it need some libraries it didn't need before?
15:51.21pooliobrlcad: is there a way to encapsulate data from hit() and miss() calls of the raytracer? I need to give the hit and miss calls certain parameteres but don't see any way to do that other than making them global vars?
15:59.37*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
16:03.16brlcadLaniakea: none come to mind, brl-cad provides all of its external dependencies for situations where they're not installed
16:03.54brlcadonly things it doesn't include are the X11, C, and curses/termcap libraries
16:12.28*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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16:14.30*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726512.dsl.bell.ca)
16:19.27IriX64got it poolio, works now it was the search of the path, need to set the unix path first :)
16:20.39IriX64http://rafb.net/p/kicshw94.html   <----- see
16:22.29IriX64fortunatly you can mix unix path with windereze path :)
16:26.00IriX64is fbserv tied only to /dev/X or can you use /dev/ogl ?
16:27.26IriX64x framebuffer comes up
16:27.40IriX64ogl is missing tho
16:28.41IriX64let me check that tutorial :)
16:30.51brlcadyou can use any fbserv that shows up when you run fbhelp
16:31.27brlcadit needs at least a port number and usually a framebuffer type like, fbserv 10 /dev/ogl
16:31.37brlcadthen with rt, you run rt -F10
16:33.07IriX64http://rafb.net/p/vSrhWH43.html     all these are available then nice.
16:38.05IriX64-S 690 is a bit large your -S 512 is a bit better i think
16:40.28pooliobrlcad: any solution to the RT encapsulation issue? The issue is I have a nasty global that must exist and I'm not sure how that'll do on parallel systems
16:40.38IriX64building again heh
16:41.00IriX64poolio: thanks man
16:41.34poolioIriX64: I didn't do nothing :)
16:55.59IriX64yeah you did you turned me on to this funky path thing :)
16:56.18IriX64sorry if i scared the developers
16:57.10IriX64the command line parsing has probably been stable and frozen for 20 years, and i go off and accuse, shame on me
17:00.20IriX64something else wrong tho the ogl frame buffer comes back with 3400 but no display altho the faceplate comes up on ogl
17:00.34IriX64x buffer is fine
17:01.43IriX64rt works cute
17:03.07IriX64haha my transplanted ls works, how sweet is that :)
17:09.33IriX64the irix32 blog man, first pix in the brlcad albumn
17:10.46IriX64the process running in the command window is a little bat file to straighten out the path thing and startup mged :)
17:12.25IriX64exec tclsh does something but i know squat about tcl
17:12.45brlcadthrottle it back IriX64
17:12.52IriX64sure sorry
17:12.53brlcadpoolio: what encapsulation issue?
17:16.41brlcadpoolio: as for having a global that "must exist", that's rarely the case but also not the end of the world ;)
17:30.16pooliobrlcad: so when you raytrace something and call rt_shootray(), it then calls two user-defined methods one for if there is a hit, and for if there is a miss. I do my ray comparison as they come in so i need the hit/miss functions to have access to the stored "source"
17:31.03poolioBut don't see a way to transmit a pointer to that data, and I can't return the data I need from the hit/miss functions because they have to return an int and my data is a fastf_t (also: is fastf_t a float) ?
17:32.01brlcadfastf_t should be a double on most systems, though it can be set to a float or other type
17:32.10pooliooh alright
17:35.35brlcadpoolio: you do have a means to pass around data..
17:35.44brlcadthat's the purpose of the application structure
17:35.53brlcadwhich is the param to the callbacks
17:36.36brlcadthe application structure has fields for numbers, pointers, vectors, etc .. and it has custom stuff for tracking segment lists (since that's the most common need/use)
17:36.43brlcadsee include/raytace.h
17:37.01pooliooh I didn't see a pointer that I could use
17:37.07poolioah genptr_t
17:37.09pooliod'oh
17:37.31poolioYeah I was using a_user but guess i missed a_uptr
17:39.23brlcadyeah, genptr_t is a void*
17:39.29brlcadon most platforms at least
17:41.33poolioalright hurray, thanks.
17:41.46poolioI was probably skimming the structs looking fora n asterisk and ...
17:43.08IriX64is bwish a must have brlcad?
17:43.32brlcadIriX64: for a public distribution, yes -- for personal use, no
17:43.40IriX64thankyou
17:43.45brlcadonly a few tools use bwish, and I don't think you've discovered them yet :)
17:43.53IriX64true :)
17:47.14IriX64public distribution.... if i tell anybody outside this channel i've got a mostly working brlcad for windows 2000 and up they'll laff me off the planet :)
17:48.31brlcadplus, if you can't get bwish to build, then mged shouldn't build
17:48.40brlcaddependency-wise, they're almost identical
17:48.54IriX64not that it doesn't build issues at runtime
17:49.52IriX64take it bwish is a superset of wish?
17:53.12brlcadsort of, sure
17:53.23IriX64i see the & operator is required for anything you exec
17:53.28brlcadwish with the brl-cad libraries preloaded
17:53.38IriX64thankyou
17:54.34IriX64i have the btclsh loaded how do i get a help or usage screen
17:55.55brlcadit's a tcl shell -- there's no interactive help
17:56.24IriX64thankyou seems to work, complains about invalid commands anyway :)
17:56.35brlcadif it complains, then it's probably not right :)
17:56.46IriX64i'll arrest it
17:56.52brlcadoh, unless you mean when you give it invalid commands
17:57.04brlcadif it writes messages when  you just start it though, then something's probably not right
17:57.07IriX64true i know not what is valid
17:57.20IriX64no messages just a pid
17:57.50IriX64and prompt says mged> is that accurate?
17:58.24brlcadnot unless you ran mged
17:58.42IriX64i did then exec btclsh &
17:58.55brlcadoh, you mean from within mged??
17:59.00IriX64yes
17:59.02brlcadthat won't work
17:59.09IriX64it does :)
17:59.15pooliosph(i35.s):  zero length A(0.000199928), B(0.000199928), or C(0.000199928) vector
17:59.19brlcadat least it won't do anything it's supposed to
17:59.25pooliothat's not zero!
17:59.31brlcadyou're trying to run an interpreter in an interpreter
17:59.37IriX64yes
17:59.48brlcadyou backgrounded it, so it you don't get the error, but you also can't talk to it
17:59.51brlcadwhich is useless
18:00.02IriX64but it talks back :)
18:00.07IriX64along with mged
18:00.22brlcadit just "writes" back .. you just made a process you can't communicate with
18:00.32brlcadyou can't even directly kill it
18:00.39IriX64so why does it tell me invalid command
18:00.54brlcadhuh? why does what tell you invalid command?
18:01.00IriX64btclsh
18:01.09brlcadyou're not in btclsh!
18:01.14IriX64ok
18:03.36IriX64http://rafb.net/p/LIUt1z76.html   <--- i mean i know i'm slow but i'm not blind yet.
18:06.17IriX64ctrl-c gets me out
18:15.56brlcadhelp only works on mged commands, btclsh is not an mged command so no help
18:16.36brlcaddoing "exec btclsh &" is entirely useless .. you can't talk to that btclsh instance
18:16.54brlcadit will print its output is all
18:16.57brlcadwhich is a prompt
18:17.02brlcadyou can't type on that prompt though
18:17.14brlcadwhich is what I said earlier -- it writes back, but you can't talk to it
18:18.54brlcadpoolio: it should probably say "near zero length" -- it's below the current computation tolerance
18:19.24brlcada sphere with a 0.01mm radius
18:19.58pooliobrlcad: Well it completely thrases the program and tries to dump a stack trace and always fails and eats CPU until I kill it
18:20.13pooliobrlcad: I guess I'll do my own error checking on it so that doesn't happen
18:20.48brlcadhmm, sounds like something else is wrong elsewhere
18:21.02pooliobrlcad: No, rand() just came up with a really low number
18:21.14poolioand it keeps coming up with it cause I'm using the same seed and bn_random
18:21.27pooliobut there are other bugs i'm working on ...
18:21.41brlcadah
18:21.57brlcadbn_random is going to give you numbers normalized between 0 -> 1
18:22.11brlcadthose shouldn't be primitive parameters :)
18:22.16poolioYes I know, and I multiply it by some scalar, but if that number is close to zero...
18:22.33pooliobrlcad: They aren't, I guess I'll set some minimum and have MIN + SCALE * rand
18:22.42brlcadsure, there's an absolute minimum size for each primitive
18:22.58brlcadjust take the case of zero even .. if it hits zero you can have lots of badness
18:23.08poolioyeah...
18:24.25poolioThere's something messed up with my raytrace comparison ... and I was so sure it was bulletproof...
18:24.41poolio4: r:1.30367    f:96
18:24.41poolio5: r:6.69046    f:96
18:24.53pooliofitness should be proportional to radius ergggh
18:26.06brlcad:)
18:26.48poolioEverything was working and then when I cleaned up the code and added random generation. BOOM. I think I need to do a bit more design before I start coding in the future
18:29.12IriX64screwed up the mug again but it did save the database, I'm happy :)
18:46.12IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos   the brlcad albumn first 3 pix, all done entirely on the windows side of the box
19:01.16IriX64you know you should put some recent pictures up on your web page, yours are so interesting
19:02.25brlcadthat takes a lot of effort
19:02.47IriX64really? not screen shot utility for unix?
19:04.09IriX64give them to me, i'll send back a .png for you :)
19:04.40brlcadthe images are easy
19:04.44brlcadi have hundreds of images
19:05.01brlcadgetting approval to release them takes a lot of effort
19:05.16IriX64ok now i understand
19:05.48IriX64too many people can download them is that it?
19:07.56IriX64thanks for stryker it just became my wallpaper :)
19:09.05pooliobrlcad: off topic: any suggestions for a keyboard? My current one is dying and the keys are sticking so I'm off to buy one later today :)
19:09.44archivistremove crumbs from kb
19:10.06poolioarchivist: keyboard is beyond repair, i've taken the kesy off and cleaned and put back, i think the springs are dying
19:10.12archivistbut the remote logitech has lasted well for me
19:10.22poolioand i dont like using my laptop keyboard when it's plugged into my monitor
19:10.29poolioyeah i'm debating whether to try out an ergonomic one
19:12.16IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos   stuff albumn pix of my stryker desktop
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19:29.38IriX64wherever clock is, i'm sorry if i made him popular, but he gave his ok ;)
19:29.55brlcadpoolio: i'm a bit partial to the mac pro keyboard (and it works with linux, windows, etc)
19:30.05brlcadgreat tactile response
19:30.47brlcadDas Keyboard II is fun too
19:38.22IriX64man, how many framebuffers can i use :)
19:40.24pooliobrlcad: yeah I don't really like the mac pro keyboards, the keys are too close together for me or something
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19:57.47IriX64if you honor -DSOLARIS, your solaris specific code passes muster
20:00.43brlcadthat define doesn't do anything
20:01.00IriX64no support behind it?
20:01.06IriX64i didnt check
20:01.09brlcadit doesn't mean anything
20:01.15brlcadmight as well do -DIrix64
20:01.27brlcadyou can't just make up names :)
20:01.42brlcadwell you can, but that doesn't mean they'll do anything at all
20:01.45poolio-DDEBUG =P
20:01.53IriX64understood.
20:02.48brlcadi imagine you saw -DBSD and thought that meant something .. if you did, it doesn't mean what you think it means
20:03.07IriX64thanks man i learn here
20:04.17IriX64well i have an exact same build then as with -DBSD right as well as without -D anything at all, i've learned
20:04.51brlcadbecause bsd refers to calling api semantics
20:05.06brlcadbsd vs sysv style, which most platforms support both these days
20:05.27brlcadaside from just most of the code that used BSD now no longer uses it
20:06.29IriX64think i'll throw a -DSYSV5 in there to prove that to myself, shouldn't crash right
20:06.45brlcadyou're still making up symbols :P
20:06.50IriX64heh
20:06.59brlcadthat won't do jack
20:07.15IriX64looks pretty
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20:12.41IriX64brlcad this silly thing is insisting i have sgigl again wasn't anything i did
20:13.44IriX64i just comment out the define in brlcad_config.h for now is seems to be sufficient
20:55.33IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos  1st 2 pictures are rtedge in action
21:01.48IriX64is there no dwg to g tool?
21:27.03IriX64http://rafb.net/p/rEyujP49.html <--- you were right, it's gotten this far with no effect :)
21:30.28IriX64problem i have now is how to display a stackdump
21:31.26IriX64hmmm mc for windows?
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22:01.40IriX64trying to rename the root folder of cygwin while i'm doing a copy from a folder in there, sheeesh :)
22:03.25IriX64btw mc crossed (I'm happy as a lark, people will be able to view stackdumps and whatnot)
22:04.26IriX64not that brlcad ever produces stackdumps *ahem :)
22:06.39IriX64gotta reboot for this, l8r
22:11.55*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
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22:55.44IriX64mc is out (i'm not going to delve into the code to make it work) relies too heavily on the *nix directory structure
22:56.18IriX64ill have them e-mail stack dumps
23:05.59IriX64without the cygwin folder i successfully brought up the faceplate and a framebuffer i'm happy
23:06.20IriX64using Xwin32 no cygwin-x
23:16.55IriX64geometry works rt works what else can i try that would make this thing work for you?
23:20.19IriX64ls is looking for tmp sigh
23:21.46IriX64no it's not it's gone again sigh gotta stop moving things around, cy'all l8r
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070628

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070628

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02:55.03poolioevening coding again :)
03:15.04brlcadwoot
03:15.39pooliohaha this happens almost every night. I announce I'm coding and you say woot. woot :)
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03:57.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.h population.c population.h beset.c fitness.c): implemented basic GA framework
03:58.14poolioand gnite :) I'll try to make it actually functional in the morning...right now the fitness function is FUBAR even though it worked fine before
03:58.50brlcadwoot
03:58.55brlcad:)
03:59.10brlcadprogress is progress
03:59.14pooliobrlcad: you can test it if you want, it's not functional but ... it's moving along
03:59.31brlcadI'm waiting for just a little more before I start poking ;)
04:00.34poolioyeah, I'd like to have pretty much a full one-shape implementation. (has to figure out which primitive it is and the orientation)
04:00.59poolioHopefully also switch to trees and geting some sort of wrapper to the shapes instead of my current "assume it's a sphere" approach
04:03.11brlcadjust remember that CSG trees have two distinct node types -- leaf nodes are always primitives, other nodes are operators/combinations
04:03.33poolioI think I'm going to limit it to operators for now, but yeah I got that
04:03.44poolio(no combinations)
04:03.52brlcadcombinations are operators in a way
04:04.05brlcadat least they're just a container for the operation
04:04.34poolioyeah but if I have it in a CSG tree, aren't all internal combinations essentially useless?
04:04.58pooliowell useful for say organization, but irrelevant for creating different candidates
04:06.22brlcader, the difference is mostly semantic
04:06.31poolioyeah
04:06.55brlcada "combination" is a csg operation .. so if you have a CSG "tree" then you have combinations
04:06.57pooliobrlcad: also on a somewhat different point, is it ok that my proress is so slow? I'm having a lot of problems with segfaults / code that isn't functioning how I intended...
04:07.06brlcadyour progress is fine
04:07.25brlcadexactly what I expected so far .. :)
04:07.29poolioalright. I'm kind of in a rut getting this initial stuff working, but I think progress should be picking up
04:07.35brlcadyou've got along ways ahead still
04:07.37poolioWell i'm upset I wasn't able to exceed your expectations
04:08.06brlcadI'm realistic, it's a pretty hefty task just to implement, much less make functional
04:08.14brlcads/less/more/
04:08.44poolioWell, the amount of code and what it does isn't very impressive. My main issue has been understanding interacting with the established brl-cad routines and also fixing my earlier mistakes
04:09.16brlcaddude, don't be so hard on yourself -- you're making great progress :)
04:09.40poolioeh, it makes me get more done :)
04:10.10poolioI've also never done such a large scale project and commited this much time, so it's quite the experience
04:10.14poolioand I appreciate the freedom you're giving me
04:11.18brlcadhaving liberty to "do your thing" is important to just about every developer, even me
04:12.04brlcadthat's where/why the talks we've already had to date are so important
04:12.47brlcadwe're at least coinciding fully on the big picture, aware of the goals, scope, and intent .. efforts are visible, progress is evident, life is good ;)
04:13.09pooliogood good.
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04:15.08brlcadand not to forget that you're helping me with my goals too .. I'm very appreciative of how hard you're working
04:15.20brlcadthat will make it that much easier to expand this into a much bigger program down the road
04:15.20poolioheh, I'm being compensated, all is well
04:15.34poolioWell I'd guess if you really want to expand this a lot of stuff should be rewritten from the ground up
04:15.51pooliofor example, I think there are tons of optimizations that could be done in the raytracing area
04:15.54pooliowell maybe not tons, but quite a few
04:16.25brlcadyou'd probably be surprised, but yes, there is always room for improvement ;)
04:17.03pooliobut yeah... must not forget "premautre optimization is the root of all evil"
04:18.42brlcadalso remember that brl-cad's been doing ray-tracing for .. a very long time -- with the constraints of solid modeling and full-shotline ray evaluation, there are limits compared to what you can do with, say, a polygonal visual-only evaluation
04:19.29poolioI wasn't really saying in the raytracer, but in some of the application structures and pointers and memory being passed around. Although I don't thi nk that's the bottleneck of the raytracing so ....
04:19.39brlcadyeah, that's nowhere near the bottleneck
04:19.55poolioThe fitness function could for sure be cleaned up. My algorithm for comparing shot-line rays is pretty slow
04:20.13brlcadmost of the time is spent in the primitive evaluation, spatial partitioning (the accelleration structure), and boolean evaluation
04:20.38brlcadthose three generally consume 90% of the time in a given ray-trace
04:20.51poolioYeah, I'm still worried about how boolean operators will perform on a GA
04:21.32brlcadhard to say without seeing how hard it is for it to converge on an arbitrary box
04:21.43pooliotrue. that should be in the works shortly
04:22.43brlcadif it can actually converge on a box (which is certainly not a given), then it "should" just be a matter of processing power for it to converge on any CSG structure
04:22.47poolioalso I don't think I want the GA to work and try to find the optimum solution, just try to get it near-optimal and then use some sort of gradient descent to try to find the optimal
04:24.10pooliobrlcad: well also remember we're adding in another dimension when we add in boolean operators, well more than one dimension but instead of just orientation there's also relative scale
04:24.12brlcadthat's where simulated annealing is relevant, effectively a means for performing a gradient descent
04:25.55poolioalso I think convergence on CSG trees in general is goign to be highly dependent on the parameters to the GA, such as the size, mutation rates, etc...and also  what we want to let mutate etc...
04:26.16brlcadthere are also a ton of knobs you can tweak on the GA itself .. mutation levels, population sizes, evaluation criteria, crossover rates, biased member selections/promotions, etc
04:26.32brlcadheh, yup
04:26.33poolioahaha :)
04:27.11poolioMaybe have some sort of meta-ga to try to optimize the parameters to the ga on a simple problem and see how that scales to more coplex problems
05:28.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-X10.1 pl-X10.c): pl-X10 is obsolete, removing it
06:00.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: decouple libdm from librt
06:02.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libdm actually presently uses librt, so make sure it's listed as a libs dependency. add the carbon framework when we're on os x for the new application focus routine.
06:05.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/dm.h src/libdm/focus.c src/libdm/Makefile.am):
06:05.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: add a new dm_applicationfocus() call that will attempt to bring the invoked
06:05.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: application to the current focus -- this is useful/interesting on Mac OS X where
06:05.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: X11 applications are not focused by default when invoked via various means (e.g.
06:05.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: double-clicking or via Terminal).
06:07.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: wow, needs libfb too (e.g., for X24_interface in dm_obj.c)
06:09.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (Makefile.am pl-X.c): move the focus code into libdm as a somewhat more generic dm_applicationfocus() call, even if only/presently implementing support for focusing X11 on Mac OS X.
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06:12.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: bring application to focus if needed via dm_applicationfocus()
06:42.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: additional library dependencies that aren't spelled out .. results in really long/redundant link lines for some binaries, but should be comprehensive for each library by itself.
06:43.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged and pl-X automatically focus to X11 on Mac OS X
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11:01.32IriX64can someone do an anonymous ftp to ftp://www3.sympatico.ca and tell me what you see?
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11:23.15IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos brlcad albumn, an old test build
11:32.12IriX64theres a mite in the window title :)
12:54.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: need to fix/check these headers -- should be noinst or in include/
12:56.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/Makefile.am: add the missing build files, header files, and add the needed libraries so that it compiles and will distcheck successfully
12:59.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.h fitness.h population.c population.h): add headers/footers as needed
13:05.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: include BRLCAD and BRLCAD_LIBS for libbrlcad
13:39.54pooliobrlcad: ah oops, thanks :)
13:45.19pooliobrlcad: did you see some of my comments "/* EEEEEEEEEK WHAT IF RAND() IS ZEROOOOOO!?!? */
13:46.29brlcadyup
13:46.54pooliouh oh
13:47.17poolioany general comments/suggestions before I continue further?
14:20.09IriX64poolio: while(RAND()) { do whatever }
14:20.12IriX64:)
14:22.32poolioIriX64: errr not quite, but that's also a bad idea :)
14:22.53poolioI believe BN_RANDOM() is 0,1 exclusive so it'd be an infinite loop
14:32.43*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:18.38IriX64heh loops are forever :)
15:20.27pooliofunroll loops would be a great name for a cereal :)
15:30.31IriX64loops of fun :)
15:32.02pooliobrlcad: is there an already implemented float comparison macro or something in brlcad?
15:36.32poolionevermind, got it
15:46.23*** join/#brlcad TME (n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov)
15:46.54TMEhi again, quick question, is there a fast way to automatically read in all regions
15:47.13TMEwhen I use rt_gettree() I need to specify one region at a time
15:49.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bn.h src/libbn/rand.c): document more explicitly which random number tables are open intervals and which are closed -- the smaller table is open, the big table (halfrand) is closed.
15:49.28pooliobrlcad: haha, was that in response to an incorrect comment I made earlier? :P
15:59.31*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
16:00.00brlcadTME: yes, after you do a dirbuild, you can just iterate over all hashtable entries
16:00.18brlcadpoolio: it wasn't incorrect -- but I did point you to the wrong random number routine I think
16:00.27poolioBN_RANDOM?
16:00.57brlcadinstead of BN_RANDOM, you're probably better off using bn_rand0to1() or bn_rand_half()
16:01.14poolioalright, what's the difference?
16:01.18brlcadthey pull from larger random number pools
16:01.24pooliooh alright
16:01.29brlcadperiod of 16k instead of 4k
16:01.44brlcadwith the same performance
16:01.58poolioI figured out why the fitness function wasn't working, well, I see when it doesnt work but I don't get why. If I input whole numbers as a radius it works, if the radius is not a whole number it just gives bogus results
16:02.19brlcadnot a big deal since either will work, but should give better variation
16:02.36poolioyeah, for now it doesn't matter but when it comes to actually testing it may
16:02.48brlcadnow the large tables are closed .. so you will have to account for 0 and 1, whereas the BN_* routines pull from the smaller tables that are open
16:03.28pooliook
16:03.41brlcadunless you just leave it at the smaller table
16:03.46brlcadwhich is fine too :)
16:04.42pooliohmm. any ideas why if a number is say 1.0 it works fine but if it's 1.000001 or something it throws out completely different results?
16:05.33brlcadneed more info
16:05.47brlcadtoo many it's in there
16:05.55brlcadand/or I'm starving.. back in a few :)
16:05.56poolioI can update CVS but it's probably better if I just keep working on it
16:05.59poolioalright cya
16:06.12brlcadcommit early, commit often ;)
16:06.26pooliowell, I want to commit code that compiles :)
16:06.32pooliodon't want to blowup the source tree
16:06.42brlcadwell, yeah, that'd be good :)
16:15.24pooliobrlcad: I think my problem might have to do with the raytracer, although I highly doubt it... it'd just mean my code wasn't so messed up :)
16:54.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: increase the number of iterations to converge when tracing, and tighten up the tolerance on convergence
16:55.41*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
16:57.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: move ON_Ray to opennurbs_curve.h, since only curves need to know about rays for now (CloseTo operation)
17:00.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/BrepHandler.cpp: fix memory leak when handling curves
17:08.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix memory leak on converter deletion
17:10.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug acne problems, sort hits properly; continue to flesh out edge detection
17:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: add CloseTo skeleton
17:17.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: move ON_Ray here, for use with CloseTo method; CloseTo() declaration
17:20.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.cpp: implement method to force a value to be within an interval
17:21.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_point.h: Bound method prototype
17:37.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: add closest point estimate method extensions (i.e. returning the subdomain where the estimate resides)
17:39.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: attempt to fix closestPoint convergence failure with converting fragment IGES file
17:50.44pooliosomeone is hard at work and it isn't me :)
17:58.31TMEsorry, I can't find the hash table in struct rt_i
17:58.42TMEdo you mean **region?
18:01.41TMEsorry, I meant **Regions
18:02.10TMEif so, what is the size, as I can't see the correct way to use bu_list here
18:05.18pooliobrlcad: I'm really tempted to say there is a bug with the raytracer :\
18:11.18TMEbrlcad: woops, I think I found it; guess I should actually read comments in the code ;)
18:29.49*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=xz74b7vx@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-79b7a398b9e25ebc)
18:31.20MinuteElectronHi, I am looking for brlcad (the user on SourceForge).
18:33.14poolioAren't we all ;)
18:36.45MinuteElectronOhm
18:37.19MinuteElectronI thought there was a user called 'brlcad'.
18:37.50poolioThere is, he goes by the IRC nick brlcad, and he's pretty active here, just wait around a bit or ask what it is you want to ask and he'll be back shortly I'm sure
18:39.34MinuteElectronAhh, okay. Thanks.
18:39.46poolioAnything anyone else can help you with?
18:41.13MinuteElectronWell, it was to do with the help wanted message regarding the website. I was interested in helping, I replied to the messgae, but came here in the hope of more information.
18:41.35MinuteElectronIt doesn't matter really, anything important can wait until a reply to the email
18:42.11*** join/#brlcad SuperTaz (n=taz@adsl-69-211-3-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
18:42.31poolioMinuteElectron: Just FYI, everything moves slowly :) or atleast that's what brlcad has told me
18:43.05MinuteElectronHehe.
18:50.52brlcadhowdy MinuteElectron
18:51.15brlcadTME: hehe, np .. if you need a snippet, just lemme know
18:53.36MinuteElectronbrlcad: Hi,
18:54.06MinuteElectronI will be offline for a few minutes while I switch to my main PC.
18:54.13MinuteElectronbrb
18:54.15brlcadno problem, I'll be here ;)
18:55.39poolioHe's probably a robot looking for some loot
18:57.26brlcadmight have a web dev interested in improving the horrid website
18:57.50poolioit is horrid :)
18:58.42brlcadthe old one was even worse, imho
18:59.03pooliobrlcad: hey, I just commited a bunch of stuff, and was wondering if you could have a quick look
18:59.03brlcadand I didn't want to bring it forward, so it was intentionally made very minimal until someone had time to dedicate towards it
18:59.19pooliobrlcad: the issue is when the sphere is not a whole number, it goes berserk, well, wrong numbers
18:59.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h population.h): single sphere partially working
18:59.46poolioso create a database with a single sphere with a radius of say 4.0, run the program, and then try it with something like 4.01
19:00.12pooliorun as ./beset database.g 1 1 sphere_name.s junk
19:00.29poolioI should really killoff the extra argument that means nothing and give a usage message
19:00.32pooliooh well :P
19:00.58brlcadheh
19:05.18*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
19:05.34MinuteElectronHi again, sorry that took longer than expected.
19:06.23brlcadread you e-mail, glad to hear about the interest so quickly
19:06.36MinuteElectronOkay, I will look now.
19:06.45brlcadI presume you've seen the horrid existing website? :)
19:08.07brlcaderm, I said I read it.. I hadn't replied yet
19:08.27MinuteElectronOh, sorry. My misunderstanding.
19:09.05MinuteElectronYeah, it isn't that bad if you just want is to give a small bit of info about the program - but I see you want a lot more than that.
19:10.34brlcaddo you know much about brl-cad or is this the first you've heard of it?
19:12.53MinuteElectronThis is actually the first time I have heard of it, I was just browsing the Help wanted lists and found this project. I was suprised to find it as it was so big (most other projects I have worked on before are fairly small and the owners 'disappeared' after a few weeks) and I would like to work on something a bit bigger and a bit more long-term than previous thing I have done.
19:15.01MinuteElectron*surprised
19:17.15MinuteElectronbrb, reconfiguring IRC setup.
19:17.52pooliobrlcad: any chance you could give my issue a look or are you a bit overloaded right now?
19:18.30brlcadyeah, brl-cad's not going away anytime soon by a long shot -- we get massive attention if only because the task of writing cad software can be so complex requiring so much effort, but brl-cad is by far the farthest along
19:19.10*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
19:19.25MinuteElectronCool.
19:19.36brlcadwe also loose a lot of attention, though, simply because our "face" is ugly -- the website and the main modeler
19:19.44brlcadthey are both big priorities though
19:19.49MinuteElectronI see.
19:28.05brlcadso, any thoughts on the task at hand?  presume from your message that you have some layout/design experience too, maybe have a look n' feel in mind or were you interested in some of the template work done to date, or .. ?
19:29.42brlcadalso, have you ever worked with ldap?  would be nice to use that as a means to tie mediawiki and drupal auth systems together .. though the mediawiki mods posted to drupal's website would also work
19:29.46*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
19:30.09brlcadpoolio: a bit overloaded, but I'm compiling it now
19:35.12MinuteElectronWell, I am not the best at designing things (most of the designs for my websites are basic, yet clean and efficent) you are probably looking for something a bit more... snazzy so I can give it a good try. Regarding the technical aspect of things: ldap is quite possible, it is well supported on the MediaWiki side of things to so it shouldn't be difficult to integrate. If you like I can create...
19:35.14MinuteElectron...a possible look and feel of the website and put it on my computer-server and you can then give the good and bad points and I can expand on that, or would you rather do this a different way.
19:36.04MinuteElectronThere is not much point in me setting up a MediaWiki and drupal combination on this machine as things are extremely difficult to transfer to and from SourceForge's web servers.
19:41.47*** part/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
19:48.58MinuteElectronbrlcad: You busy?
19:58.31brlcadquite, gimmie a sec :)
19:59.38MinuteElectronok, np
20:07.27pooliobrlcad: I guess I'll catch you tomorrow or later tonight, I have to run a few errands.
20:13.33MinuteElectronbrb - restarting
20:19.40*** join/#brlcad cad64 (n=54399582@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:21.19*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
20:33.14*** part/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
20:33.15*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
20:36.22brlcadMinuteElectron: I completely agree regarding the transferrability pita
20:36.37MinuteElectronCool.
20:36.38brlcadi've set up drupal three times on sf.net and it's been a pain every time
20:37.14MinuteElectronI see.
20:37.46brlcadthe current plan is to only have an initial/first/front page be on sf.net (so their stats can do their thing), and keep the rest off on a different server
20:37.57brlcadso we can do better integration
20:38.03MinuteElectronOh, I see. Have you got a server yet?
20:38.16TMEbrlcad: is this easy way to do a point query to ray trace with 1 hit and see what the HEAD partition region is?
20:38.19brlcadoh yeah, we've got a couple servers
20:38.27MinuteElectronNeat.
20:38.40brlcadmy.brlcad.org is a mirror for example
20:38.46*** join/#brlcad cad39 (n=5439a617@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:39.13MinuteElectronok
20:40.14brlcadone server in the US, another over in Germany
20:40.31brlcadso theoretically, we could set up distributed load balancing if we *really* wanted to
20:40.47MinuteElectronhehe
20:41.02brlcadthat'd be a bit overkill at this point though :-)
20:41.09brlcadgiven where the site currently sits
20:42.56MinuteElectronRegarding the site design, have you decided on what to about it yet?
20:44.50brlcadnope, that's what I meant about having a lot of freedom towards the design if someone is really interested in tackling the task
20:45.19brlcadi can show you some of the templates that have been done to date if you'd like to see, but even those were just mock ups with no strong preference for/against them
20:46.11MinuteElectronI have lots of spare time, I have just got my apache+php+mysql install running so I could probably take a look at Drupal and create a template that you can give your opinion on (if that is what you would like to do).
20:49.10yukonbobbrlcad: have a link/short descr for the Docbook task?
20:49.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: turn on edge curve check (begin implementing CloseTo)
20:50.20yukonbobheh -- nevermind
20:50.28SuperTazhey guys
20:50.47SuperTazanyone know about problems in configure that leade to getting : "changes in the environment can compromise the build"
20:51.35SuperTazI'm trying to build on OS X 10.4.10
20:51.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: begin implementing generic CloseTo algorithm: step 1 is to sample the curve and collect closest points to the ray
20:52.21SuperTaz(I can type, really)
20:52.33yukonbobSuperTaz: what's the full msg (ie: with context)
20:52.35SuperTazI googled to no avail
20:53.06SuperTazlong paste:
20:53.15yukonbobnot here... use pasetbin or something
20:53.27yukonbob*pastebin
20:53.39SuperTazconfigure: running /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad  'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6' '--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/
20:53.39SuperTazusr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared --enable-symbols --cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local --srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix
20:53.39SuperTazconfigure: loading cache ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local
20:53.40SuperTazconfigure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run:
20:53.42SuperTazconfigure:   former value:    -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g
20:53.44SuperTazconfigure:   current value:  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g
20:53.46SuperTazconfigure: error: changes in the environment can compromise the build
20:53.48SuperTazconfigure: error: run `make distclean' and/or `rm ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local' and start over
20:53.51SuperTazconfigure: error: /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' failed for src/other/tcl/unix
20:53.52yukonbobnot here... use pastebin or something
20:53.54SuperTazconfigure: running /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad  'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6' '--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/
20:53.59SuperTazusr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared --enable-symbols --cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local --srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix
20:54.02SuperTazconfigure: loading cache ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local
20:54.06SuperTazconfigure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run:
20:54.08SuperTazconfigure:   former value:    -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g
20:54.09brlcadeep, SuperTaz .. please use pastebin in the future :)
20:54.10SuperTazconfigure:   current value:  -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g
20:54.12SuperTazconfigure: error: changes in the environment can compromise the build
20:54.14SuperTazconfigure: error: run `make distclean' and/or `rm ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local' and start over
20:54.15brlcad~pastebin
20:54.16ibotsomebody said pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
20:54.17SuperTazconfigure: error: /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' failed for src/other/tcl/unix
20:54.20SuperTazconfigure: running /bin/sh '/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/configure' --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad  'BC_RETRY=no' '--with-x11=/usr/X11R6' '--prefix=/usr/local/brlcad' 'CFLAGS= -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include' 'LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g -L/
20:54.25SuperTazusr/X11R6/lib' --disable-shared --enable-symbols --cache-file=../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local --srcdir=/Volumes/Development/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix
20:54.28SuperTazconfigure: loading cache ../../../../config.cache.darwin8.10.0.Fruit-Punch.local
20:54.30SuperTazconfigure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run:
20:54.31*** mode/#brlcad [+b %SuperTaz!*@*] by brlcad
20:54.38*** mode/#brlcad [-b %SuperTaz!*@*] by brlcad
20:54.40SuperTazyeah
20:54.42SuperTazargh
20:54.44SuperTazdammit
20:54.46SuperTazstupid xchat
20:54.48SuperTazputting it on xbin
20:54.50SuperTazerr
20:54.52SuperTazpastebin
20:54.54SuperTazyes
20:54.56SuperTazI intended to
20:54.58SuperTaz*sigh*
20:55.04brlcad:)
20:55.10yukonboblol
20:55.48brlcadyukonbob: what sort of description?
20:56.05brlcadthere's not much to it other than "convert all the docs to docbook" :)
20:56.44SuperTazhttp://pastebin.ca/594262
20:56.45SuperTazthere
20:57.47SuperTazbrb...clearing my pastebuffer before it horks again
20:57.55SuperTazback
20:58.19SuperTazanyway, that's where the configure goes wrong
20:58.53SuperTazhappened to me twice
20:58.59SuperTazI ran make distclean
20:59.06SuperTazre-ran configure
20:59.14SuperTaz(after deleting the cache)
20:59.20SuperTazstill horked at the end
21:00.57brlcadhuh, and this is on a mac of all machines
21:01.33brlcadooh, BC_RETRY is set...
21:01.34SuperTazyeah
21:01.39SuperTazerr?
21:02.10brlcadadd --disable-retry to the configure options
21:02.14SuperTazokay
21:02.25brlcadit's trying extra hard to find something that you don't have so the real error is obscured
21:02.52TMEbrlcad (or anyone else):  what exactly does setting a_ray_length do?
21:03.01SuperTazkill the cache, first, I assume?
21:03.01SuperTazno make distclean needed, though, I hope?
21:03.02brlcadyukonbob: which link?
21:03.08brlcadSuperTaz: nah, shouldn't need to
21:03.11SuperTazokay
21:03.17brlcadi think :)
21:03.20SuperTazcache is killed, re-running it
21:03.20TMEwhen I set it (to anything) shootray simply returns the distance to the outside boundary
21:04.10SuperTazit'll be a little while...this is an oooooold mac ;)
21:04.14*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
21:04.16yukonbobbrlcad: re: Link -- I saw title of Docbook call, but didn't click for fuller descr.
21:05.34brlcadTME: setting a_ray_length only matters if you're doing more than one_hit shotlines (i.e. shotlines that go all the way through the geometry and report all the in and out hitpoints it encounters)
21:05.52brlcadTME: the a_ray_length tells it how far to report results, if you want to limit it
21:06.02brlcadotherwise, it will report them all along the given shotline
21:06.13brlcadyukonbob: ahh
21:08.36TMEok
21:08.46brlcadTME, rtshot in src/rt has an example option that uses a_ray_length iirc
21:14.15MinuteElectronbrlcad: What exactly do you wish to use Drupal for and what do you want to use MediaWiki for?
21:14.23MinuteElectronJust so I know what is going to go in each.
21:17.18brlcadmediawiki is a great wiki, everyone knows and loves it for the most part cept for those crazy tikiwiki folks ;)
21:18.10MinuteElectronYeah, I swear by it. I would never use another wiki engine.
21:18.17brlcadso I'm looking to let mediawiki do what it does best and drive most of the dynamic content on the site
21:18.39MinuteElectronSo MediaWiki is more documentation and Drupal more of a pretty face?
21:19.04brlcaddrupal has other "content management" features that would be good to have
21:19.20MinuteElectronI am new to Drupal so you will need to extrapolate.
21:19.43brlcadlike forums, gallery modules, authentication modules, the ability to write our own custom modules for things like a geometry database or benchmark performance database
21:20.31MinuteElectronWhat does the gallery module do?
21:20.33brlcadnot to mention, drupal just generally handles "blocks" better
21:21.48brlcadthe most popular drupal gallery module is actually an embedding of Gallery (http://drupal.org/project/gallery)
21:22.23MinuteElectronI see.
21:23.55MinuteElectronSo the task is, to set up Drupal and MediaWiki, add in some LDAP create a nice theme that will work on drupal and mediawiki and move the content from the current website into drupal and mediawiki?
21:24.47MinuteElectronI think I can handle that.
21:26.09brlcadyep, that sounds about right!
21:26.17MinuteElectronCool,
21:26.20brlcadldap is probably last on that list even
21:26.42brlcadjust getting the new site up with drupal, mediawiki, integrated new design/theme, and start importing data
21:26.57brlcadmost of the "hard work" is really doing to be the design/theme
21:27.12MinuteElectronOk.
21:27.17SuperTazbrlcad: still having the same problem, even with the added flag
21:27.22MinuteElectronHave you a preference, horizontal or vertical navigation?
21:27.49MinuteElectrondw
21:34.15*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
21:37.31MinuteElectronThis is going to be very interesting, colors have to be decided upon....
21:37.32brlcadMinuteElectron: probably "both" but with different categories -- main categories horizontal, more options horizontally
21:37.54MinuteElectronyeah, cool
21:38.25brlcadlet me see if I can dig up the earlier template work
21:38.30brlcadjust to give you some ideas
21:38.50MinuteElectroncool
21:39.33brlcaddo you have photoshop or a means to view .psd files?
21:39.41MinuteElectronHmm, let me check.
21:40.34MinuteElectronI just did a complete reinstall of Windows so i haven't installed much yet. But I have gimp, I will just see if it can open psd 's
21:40.43brlcadit can iirc
21:41.02MinuteElectronCool, then the answer is yes.
21:41.32brlcadlet me preface by saying that this was just some fooling around more than 5 years ago so you don't have to use it or even start with it, just some ideas
21:41.38brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/template01.psd
21:41.44MinuteElectronOkay,
21:41.46brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/template02.psd
21:42.19MinuteElectronI need to expand my vocabulary.
21:43.51MinuteElectronWow, this is a great starting point.
21:44.03MinuteElectronI like the green colors, it goes with the logo well.
21:46.42SuperTazbrlcad, I still can't get it to compile...same error, same context
21:47.00SuperTazI have to get out of here in a few, though...I'll be back later tonight and I'll be around during the day tomorrow
21:49.18brlcadSuperTaz: okay -- when you get a chance, if you could pastebin your *entire* output including the configure line you call, that might help
21:49.51brlcadSuperTaz: there is a newer logo at http://brlcad.org/images/logo/
21:50.55brlcader sorry, that latter was meant for MinuteElectron
21:50.56MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you pschyic? I needed that page too :P
21:51.01MinuteElectronOh, lol.
22:26.17MinuteElectronAww, I wish IE6 would render alpha transparency.
22:29.55MinuteElectronbrlcad: Is 'solid modeling for a strong defense' a registered trademark?
22:36.23MinuteElectronarghf, view this in any sane browser and it looks alright but in IE it looks crap. http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
22:37.43MinuteElectronlol I have been working on the header for nearly an hour/
22:39.40MinuteElectronoh dear, this only looks alright at 1280x1024 resolution....
22:40.48brlcad:)
22:41.15brlcadMinuteElectron: it is/was registered, but don't worry about that .. no need to put the symbol
22:41.25MinuteElectronok, I will work on this tomorrow, but now I must sleep. You won't be able to view this after my computer goes offline/
22:41.31brlcadno need to even use the tag line, but it's got character
22:41.39MinuteElectronyeah :D
22:41.42brlcadI have something you might be interested in
22:41.47MinuteElectronooh
22:42.38brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/~sean/websites.txt
22:42.55brlcadagain, just really loose concepts that had something relevant or interesting
22:43.17brlcadas well as what others in "our industry" are doing
22:43.48MinuteElectroninteresting
22:44.14MinuteElectronI will have a closer look at these and see if I can introduce some of those concepts into my design tomorrow. but for now, goodnight.
22:44.42brlcadcya!
23:28.53pooliobrlcad: howdy :)
23:31.41pooliobrlcad: If you have a couple minutes in the near future I could use a hand trying to figure out if the bug i'm encountering is my app or general raytracer
23:47.17*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.173.3)
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00:17.41*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:24.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:26.39pooliooops.
00:28.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/.cvsignore: ignore the beset product
00:28.32pooliobrlcad: good choice :)
00:39.02pooliobrlcad: it seems like part of the problem / the problem has to do with rti_radius...If I create a sphere with radius of 4, the min/max is correctly computed, but the bounding sphere has a radius of 6.9282...?
00:39.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h fitness.h population.c population.h): petty cosmetics while browsing, mostly ws
00:39.39poolioerr i've been updating stuff :\
00:40.11brlcadno worries, nothing likely to conflict
00:40.25brlcadstill reading what all you have going
00:41.04poolioalright, but that rti_radius vs bounding box thing is confusing me
00:41.15poolioand possibly part of the problem, or maybe it's my confusion with how the raytracer works
00:41.39pooliothanks for fixing my headers :)
00:41.39brlcadyou'll have to back me up to some example so I can see
00:41.46poolioYeah sure
00:42.06poolioIt involves some effor on your end though, I could throw some code together to do it automatically if you want though
00:42.36brlcadnah, just say what I need to do
00:42.41brlcadmake a sph in mged?
00:42.45poolioyes
00:42.49brlcadradius 4?
00:42.51pooliosure
00:42.53poolio4.0
00:43.06pooliothe output of the program is god awful
00:43.18poolioyou could also modify the program and do it that way, but i think the mged way is the easiest
00:43.35poolioso make a sphere, run the program with ./beset database.g 1 1 spherename.s aadf
00:43.47pooliothe aadf is just me still not decrementing the argc check
00:44.05brlcadalready done
00:44.18brlcadnot sure what those numbers mean yet
00:44.31poolioso they are the in/out points of the shotline ray
00:44.36poolio1 1 = 1x1 grid of rays
00:44.38poolioso just 1 ray
00:44.47brlcadshooting in what direction?
00:44.48pooliothat should be centered ... i think
00:44.52brlcadah, k
00:45.02pooliohopefully shooting along the z axis
00:45.17pooliobut i think i've confused my axis somewhere, but it's shooting along some defined axis
00:45.35poolioand the numbers are wrong...that's another issue..
00:45.54brlcadwhat are the bracketed values?
00:45.58pooliook so
00:46.08pooliothey're the in/out points of the ray
00:46.13pooliothe left one is the model shape
00:46.21pooliomodel shape = stored shape in database
00:46.35pooliothe right one is the GA one which should be set to some value in population.c
00:46.37pooliosome whole numbered value
00:46.46poolioI've modified everything to try to isolate what is going on
00:47.03poolioso basically, with a radius of 4, the in/out hit points are those
00:47.11poolio(those are normalized to the rti_radius*2 (diameter))
00:47.27brlcadah, normalized
00:47.28pooliothe reason it's not 1 and is instead .57735 has to do with rti_radius being completely off for some reason
00:48.21brlcadwhere do you normalize?
00:48.30poolioI normalize in fitness.c
00:49.04pooliostored rays are normalized as they are stored in capture_hit
00:49.18pooliocandidates rays are normalized as they are compared in compare_hit
00:49.43pooliothe printing is coming from compare_hit
00:49.55poolioIf you wait one minute I think I'll make it a bit more clear and stop wasting your time :)
00:59.07pooliobrlcad: alright cvs update and you should get output that means something
01:00.10*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
01:00.23pooliobrlcad: it's beset.c and fitness.c
01:00.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c): added logical debugging output
01:01.07pooliobrlcad: same instructions but don't need the junk 5th argument
01:01.28poolio./beset db.g 1 1 sphere.s
01:01.42pooliotry it with something like 4 then 4.01
01:02.53pooliomy output: http://rafb.net/p/JIkxZt54.html
01:03.42pooliowhole.s is a sphere of radius 4, dec.s is a sphere of radius 4.01
01:07.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: error check fit_prep() return value
01:08.23pooliobrlcad: I add in error checking after I get it working in known conditions, I wouldn't worry about it for now :P
01:11.27brlcadi figured half as much, though there's a reason
01:11.45poolioYeah, it could be stuff like that that's failing and I don't check and that's why it's going crazy
01:12.49poolioI should probably do that now, I'm just not sure if you're doing it and didn't want to commit stuff that you might be changing
01:13.00brlcadit's a habit to *always* write your checks at the same time, sanity checking as you go along -- you need the code regardless so you might as well write it while it's in your locus of attention
01:13.32brlcaddon't worry about committing over me.. that's what cvs is for ;)
01:13.33pooliobrlcad: Yeah I know, my issue is that I hate having to scroll past it all the time
01:13.49brlcadyou get used to it, becomes second nature
01:14.39poolioso any ideas off the top of your head with the weird raytrace shifting thing?
01:14.46brlcadstill looking
01:15.05brlcadwhich is why I was adding checks while poking .. it's in my locus of attention ;)
01:15.16brlcadalways better earlier than later..
01:15.18poolioI appreciate it :)
01:15.30brlcadlots can happen between early and later
01:15.52brlcadthe sort of bugs and unchecked values that can send you debugging for days
01:16.10poolioI've already been debugging for days :\
01:16.28brlcadthat's probably more a combination of reasons :)
01:16.41pooliostupidity weighing heavily
01:18.23poolioI also had a kind of general question about C coding. Is it considered a bad practice to have code that's not part of the main routine output info? Like I'm specifying certain return values and then checking the return values in main() and printing out error info. Before I had it just print the error and exit from the routine
01:21.41brlcadnah
01:22.06brlcad(re stupidity)
01:22.06pooliok
01:22.06pooliooh
01:22.06poolio:P
01:22.18brlcada like your layout, not too tricky to follow
01:22.26pooliobrlcad: hurray :)
01:22.37poolioby layout you just mean the file structure and routine hierarchy?
01:23.16brlcadand to your second question .. heck no, that's fine either way
01:23.27poolioalright cool.
01:23.37brlcadgenerally, error/failure recovery is just a big design decision.. just should try to be consistent on the approach
01:24.20brlcadwhether you use return codes, or abort in place, or try to recover from failures, or use result structures, or throw exceptions, or set jump points, etc
01:24.44poolioI think I might just let the routines exit. I mean all the errors that can be errors are fatal errors
01:24.46brlcadfor something like this -- if it's a fatal error, I'd just abort
01:24.57brlcads/abort/terminate the application/
01:24.58poolioWell not all the errors, but all the errors I'm printing error messages for
01:25.05pooliobrlcad: ok cool
01:25.51brlcadit's generally only worth the overhead/complexity of return codes/structs/exceptions/etc if you're actually going to handle them under some conditions
01:26.12poolioyeah that's what I'm considering... it just adds more conditional checks into main() that do nothing
01:26.18brlcador if there's some secondary benefit, like being able to print more informative messgaes by returning values higher up the chain
01:26.41poolioWell that's what I was thinking with error messages, I wanted to print the program name too but I don't think that's of much importance
01:26.56brlcadusually it's a balance, particularly if you have things that can return null, you check your nulls regardless
01:27.04brlcads/your/for/
01:27.45pooliowell I feel like bu_malloc has cleaned up a lot of code pertaining to null pointers
01:28.57brlcadthat was done that way primarily because it's such a common pattern, and it was an architecture decision to never have memory failures reach application code
01:29.11brlcadi wouldn't take that to an extreme for all call types ;)
01:29.16brlcadlike I said, it's a balance
01:29.26poolioyeah, I like that decision.
01:30.28brlcadif you have a routine that has several types of possible errors, it might actually make sense to return an error code or null pointer or what have you, and have the one or two callers just check that value than have N print-error/release-memory/shut-down statements in that deep function
01:32.13brlcadthe more frequent decision is usually whether to use return codes (0 good, !0 bad) or truthfull results (true succeed, false failure)
01:32.55brlcador if you're c++, whether to use exceptions at all or not, other examples abound
01:34.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: quell warning
01:41.52pooliobrlcad: eek, I changed that....
01:42.02pooliobrlcad: I just made it print the error and exit...oh well
01:42.19brlcad*ahem* commit early, commit often
01:42.42poolioI think I might actually write that on top of my monitor
01:42.51poolioDON'T FORGET KIDS: commit early, commit often
01:42.57poolio(that better not be relationship advice)
01:43.12brlcadyou'll hear that in jusst about every open source project if you've not already
01:43.44brlcadonly way to effectively coordinate distributed devs without halting progress -- first to commit "wins", those that follow get to potentially resolve conflicts ;)
01:43.53pooliogrargh.
01:44.28brlcadso I have the answer to one question for you
01:45.11brlcadthe radius it assigns is only guaranteed to be larger, not tight fitting
01:45.38poolioalright. so I think I'll stick to the bounding box
01:45.55brlcadit computes the bounding sphere by taking half the diameter of the bounding box
01:45.56poolioso is it a sphere that fits inside it the bounding box?
01:46.03poolioah ok
01:46.04brlcadand if you remember your trig, then those numbers make more sense ;)
01:46.38poolioYes, but the issue with numbers had to do when it wasn't a whole number
01:46.43brlcads/diameter/length from the longest corner-to-corner span/
01:47.07brlcadthe radius is still fine to use, shouldn't matter
01:47.48brlcadonly happens to be obvious with a sphere since the bounding box is significantly bigger than the sphere, then that box's bounding sphere is then larger
01:47.58poolioyeah true
01:48.05poolioso I can still leave that I guess
01:48.50brlcadbtw, a good testing value (aside from a debugger) for shooting rays is nirt and/or rtshot
01:51.33brlcade.g. rtshot -d 0 0 -1 -p 0 0 1000 test.g sph  (shoots down the Z axis)
01:55.45pooliobrlcad: alright, so there is something messed up with my raytracing of rational numbers
01:56.30pooliothanks for the time and effort
01:59.49brlcadwhich axes are your U,V axis along?
02:00.02brlcadxy?
02:00.04poolioI want to say X and Y, but I also want to say I didn't check that and they might not be
02:20.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.c fitness.h): quell more warnings, exit instead of returning in fit_prep()
02:23.45pooliobrlcad: any luck?
02:32.23brlcadwell, the first shotline looked fine, adding some debug
02:32.46pooliowhich first shotline?
02:34.00brlcadyou shoot up the Z axis at the R4 sphere, get a 8mm thick segment
02:34.58poolioYep. you shoot up the Z axis at the R4.01 sphere and get an 8.02mm thick segment, which is correct, but for some reason it's shifted over 1 mm?
02:51.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: add support for librt -x debugging (e.g. -x 1 for rt_shootray() shotline debugging, see raytrace.h for debug flags)
02:54.00brlcadyou're right, it's shifted
02:57.21pooliobrlcad: aha! the issue is that the bounding box is whole numbers it looks like
02:59.05brlcadyes, it kicks the box up to the next whole number
02:59.11pooliooh man...
02:59.16poolioanyway to get decimal bounding boxes?
02:59.17brlcadyour second shotline against 4.01 looks right...
02:59.28poolioIt is, the issue was I thought the bounding box would fit the shape
02:59.46poolioSomehow my brain missed the change in bounding box size
03:00.08brlcad9.01 .99 = 8.02 (shotline thickness)
03:00.26pooliobrlcad: yes I see the rt output is right, the issue is the bounding box, how can I get a more accurate one?
03:01.13brlcadhm, well that gets a bit more complicated
03:01.29brlcadyou could compute them yourself.. but you shouldn't need a tight fitting box
03:02.10poolioWell it's neccesary to have a tight fitting box if I want it to be able to disregard scale along the z-axis (ray)
03:02.33brlcadfirstoff, remember that these are not unitless values.. the box is within 1mm
03:04.21poolioI mean the option would be to make the units/size bigger, but it wouldn't be too difficult to calculate it on my own
03:05.02SuperTazhowdy
03:05.05SuperTazI have returned
03:05.08poolioI also just need the min/max in the z directon
03:05.20SuperTazthe build process still hates me, though
03:06.18pooliobrlcad: so shoot off the rays on each model, keeping track of the min/max (and all the individual rays and their parititons) then shift the rays so that the ray closest tot he point is 0 distance away and it should be good
03:06.29poolionormalize with max ray distance - min ray distance
03:06.34pooliothat way you wouldn't ahve to re-raytrace
03:07.32pooliobut it would require storing all the rays, and separating the ray-by-ray comparison
03:08.12poolioThats my besat idea...
03:08.15brlcadthat's pretty good actually
03:08.31brlcadshould be faster to process too
03:08.41pooliofaster than the current implmenetation?
03:08.52brlcadthat said, you can get at the bounding box before it's clamped
03:09.38pooliowhat do you mean (i don't quite understand :P) ?
03:10.13brlcadsorry, doing too many things at once :)
03:10.32brlcadwhat I mean is that the clamping is done for ray-trace partitioning/optimization reasons
03:10.35poolioyou mean in librt and prepping? I can get a closer bounding box?
03:10.45pooliobrlcad: yeah understood, but wouldn't I have to hack up librt?
03:10.46brlcadbefore calling prep, it should be the tight-fit box
03:11.20pooliowait, so when I extract the rt_i from the database it's the actual bounding box?
03:11.53SuperTazbrlcad: here's another pastebin link, this time with a couple of extra lines above to give you better context:
03:11.57SuperTazhttp://pastebin.ca/594796
03:12.29brlcadpoolio: the bounding sizes are computed during the rt_gettrees()
03:12.48pooliobrlcad: cheers :)
03:12.51brlcadonce you prepare for a ray-trace, the boxes are clamped so that the spatial partitioning is well-behaved
03:13.03brlcad(i.e. during prep)
03:13.03pooliobrlcad: so just overwrite the clamped values after rt_prep() ?
03:13.16brlcadeep, no, don't do that
03:13.26brlcadbut you can grab/stash them if you like
03:13.33pooliowait, why not?
03:13.42brlcadit clamps them for a reason :)
03:13.54poolioWhat's the reason?
03:14.00pooliois it a lot faster when using whole numbers?
03:14.09poolio(for the bounding box)
03:14.39brlcadthat, and there are all sorts of tolerancing and scene iteration that occurs as the ray is marched through a scene
03:15.01pooliobrlcad: so stash the value and use it to shift and normalize the rays?
03:15.15SuperTazbrlcad: it looks like a problem with whitespace in CFLAGS
03:15.28brlcadyou don't have to perform the same equations when progressing a ray and can get away with just checking signs for example
03:16.09pooliobrlcad: wait what? are you referencing the advantages of clamping the value?
03:16.10brlcadpoolio: sure, you can do that .. though I like your other idea too of just keeping track of all of the rays and computing as a post-process -- either way
03:16.46pooliobrlcad: Do you see an advantage to post-processing? To me that's just more data storage which seems pretty pointless. You can store the model easily enough and obtain that raytraced data if needed. That's the idea of the whole program ;)
03:16.49brlcadSuperTaz: I've seen that before, but it's been a long time
03:18.01SuperTazbrlcad: I'm trying to track it down, but so far I've had no luck in figuring out where it's introduced
03:18.48brlcadthe wierdness is that it hasn't "run before" yet, I think it's a matter of the CFLAGS from the top-level configure not matching what configure is passing to the sub-configure
03:19.08SuperTazbrlcad: that's exactly what's happening
03:19.10brlcadpoolio: not a really strong advantage
03:19.19pooliobrlcad: I like the rt_shootray debbugging, thanks for that :)
03:19.24brlcadsome advantages and disadvantages
03:19.51pooliomind iterating some of the advantages?
03:20.18SuperTazbrlcad: the question is whether there's an easy hack
03:20.20SuperTazls
03:20.23SuperTazoops
03:21.00brlcadgood question
03:22.39brlcadpoolio: cache coherency -- mild performance difference (which is an entirely pointless statement without profiling of course)
03:22.44SuperTazI think I found something, though...the generated configure script seems to set up some whitespace
03:22.56pooliobrlcad: yeah, over my head. I have no clue what you mean by cache coherency :P
03:23.05brlcadpointless because it could be entirely countered by avoiding memory allocations and other management logic
03:23.07pooliobrlcad: optimization comes after functionality
03:23.21brlcadyup
03:23.29brlcadand speculative optimization is bad
03:23.33brlcadshame on me for saying it ;)
03:23.35pooliobrlcad: alright, I'll try to fix up this damn bug finally
03:23.54SuperTazbrlcad: I'm trying to fake it out...I just modified the cache file and re-ran configure
03:24.02SuperTazdon't think it'll work, but it's worth a shot
03:25.14SuperTazpoolio: it's the law of diminishing returns at work
03:25.51brlcadpoolio: the only other reason would be if you ever changed your ray shooter to not shoot rays orthogonally down an axis
03:26.15SuperTazpoolio: in the performance realm, we have to analyze whether the potential gains of [further] optimization of a particular piece of functionality outweighs the investment
03:26.25brlcadthat will undoubtedly cause aliasing issues down the road without jittering the rays, though whether that matters remains to be seen
03:26.34pooliobrlcad: which I don't really see a reason to, but it'd be interesting to try to run the GA at different axis and see how it does
03:26.54brlcadpoolio: even better, not along any axis at all
03:26.56poolioSuperTaz: yes yes.
03:27.09pooliobrlcad: I fail to comprehend, but okay :)
03:27.14brlcadsample from all around the bounding sphere, for example, until you converge on a mass
03:27.35pooliooh, by axis i just meant arbitrary line through the object, not x,y,z
03:28.13pooliobrlcad: wait, why wouldn't shooting it from just one angle converge on a mass?
03:29.31SuperTazbrlcad: wouldn't random sampling work out to be more costly in the long run?
03:30.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/Makefile.am: tk doesn't have a unix/dltest dir to prodclean
03:31.14brlcadSuperTaz: depends on the goal/purpose
03:31.28SuperTazor are you talking about aiming inward from the boundary horizon, instead of outward?
03:32.19brlcadshooting rays at the object to effectively point-sample it through-and-through
03:32.42SuperTazassuming that you're using the center of the bounding sphere as either the target or origin of the ray, firing inwards would be more efficient than firing outwards
03:32.59poolioerrrrr
03:33.10brlcadyou generally don't want to shoot rays from inside geometry
03:33.20SuperTazyes
03:33.43SuperTazbut I mean as the anchorpoint of the trajectory if you're not firing along an axis
03:34.16SuperTazi.e. using it as the fulcrum on which the arbitrary axis rests
03:34.20brlcadalso wouldn't want to always shoot at the center
03:34.43SuperTazyes, but I'm talking about shooting inwards from the horizon, instead of outwards from the object
03:34.50brlcadthat will bias the ray density for various shapes, sampling more points at portions near the center
03:34.56SuperTazif you're randomly sampling
03:35.11brlcadi don't think anyone ever suggested shooting "outwards"
03:35.12SuperTazhrmmm...I suppose that's true
03:35.14brlcad:)
03:35.32SuperTazno, but I misunderstood the topic, seeing as how I walked in late, I believe ;)
03:36.46SuperTazand was largely thinking aloud and re-adjusting my assumptions, when I realized that random sampling is only inefficient when it's outward (the further away you get from the centroid, the less coverage area you have)
03:38.01SuperTazi.e. if you have a 1 degree spread between 2 rays, it's pretty dense right near the object, and exponentially approaches completely useless the further away you get from the object (the distance between the two objects increases)
03:38.12SuperTazerr...rays, not objects at the end of that
03:38.34SuperTazperhaps instead of using a centroid, there's some sort of path one could create, though
03:38.39SuperTazBTW
03:38.56SuperTazconfigure is re-starting itself with new CFLAGS, which is screwing it up
03:39.28brlcadwhich autoconf are you using?
03:39.36SuperTazsec
03:39.39brlcaddefault mac version, or fink or ports or something?
03:39.59SuperTazautoconf (GNU Autoconf) 2.59
03:40.08SuperTazports, I believe
03:40.25SuperTazmight be stock, though
03:40.39SuperTazlooks like it's stock
03:40.47SuperTazit's in /usr/bin
03:40.57SuperTazports is /opt/bin or /usr/local/bin, iirc
03:42.18SuperTazI'm considering trying to specify the cflags, and seeing what happens
03:42.58SuperTazre-extracting the src over what's existing, though, since I accidentally typed autoconf -v before autoconf --version
03:43.08SuperTazand autoconf -v hoses stuff
03:44.44SuperTazthere is a spot where it does a check and sets CFLAGS=" "
03:44.53SuperTazI suspect there's more than one place that it does that
03:44.55SuperTazprobably 2
03:45.01SuperTazor it hits that spot twice
03:45.13SuperTazand the whitespace stays
03:45.36SuperTazspecifying the cflags on the command line will PROBABLY remove the problem
03:45.41SuperTazwe shall see
03:46.15SuperTazof course, it would be best to remedy the bug
03:46.22SuperTazthanks, yukon
03:46.24brlcadcould just be a matter of trimming the whitespace in configure.ac before it gets to the sub-configures
03:46.39SuperTazI've been doing this stuff for many years...I've learned to be patient
03:47.01SuperTazport one application or write one network stack and you will learn enough patience to last a lifetime
03:47.43SuperTazbrlcad: that might work
03:48.43SuperTazI'm happy to apply a patch if you want to experiment, even if I do get it to build successfully with my attempted trickery ;)
03:49.08SuperTazI've never really messed with autoconf much
03:49.20SuperTazso it's admittedly a little bit of a weakness
03:49.32SuperTaz(and a lot of smoke and mirrors, imho :P )
03:49.59brlcadyeah, lemme test here
03:50.03SuperTazk
03:50.09yukonbobSuperTaz: you running 7.10.0
03:50.10yukonbob?
03:50.19yukonbob(or rather, trying to run)
03:50.34SuperTazyes
03:50.42SuperTazon OS X 10.4.10
03:52.40SuperTazhave something I am trying to design, and learned modelling in the mid-90's with Alias and Explore, so I'm used to both NURBS and solids modellers
03:53.20SuperTazbut I also had dynamation and kinemation expertise, and this project actually needs materials simulation
03:53.42brlcadyukonbob: most people are oblivious to deps, even 'most' devs
03:54.01SuperTazwhich means I either have to find a way to get the now-extinct Explore and port it to OS X or Windows, or find something else
03:54.02brlcadthey care about features, functionality, and a clean compile usually from my experience
03:54.06SuperTazenter BRL-CAD ;)
03:54.34brlcadSuperTaz: we're open to new devs if you have an itch that you want to scratch ;)
03:54.38SuperTazand, frankly, I don't use tcl/tk for much on this machine
03:54.42SuperTazhehehe brl
03:55.54yukonbob?is there currently any nurb support, or is that what poolio is working on atm
03:56.01SuperTazheh
03:56.51SuperTazyou know...I like both types of modelling
03:57.01SuperTazwhich probably makes me a rare breed
03:57.20poolioyukonbob: nope. i'm not really working on anything.
03:57.22brlcadthe big tasks going on right (i.e. the major focus of this year) now are a new BREP/NURBS implementation, a STEP geometry converter, and a new modeling interface
03:57.39poolioyukonbob: a bizarre GA project :)
03:57.47SuperTaznice
03:57.50yukonbob"GA"?
03:57.56pooliogenetic algorithm
03:58.01pooliobrlcad: who's goign to do the STEP converter?
03:58.02yukonbobah, right.
03:58.03SuperTazactually, the materials stuff does look interesting to me :)
03:58.14brlcadyukonbob: there is support for nurbs in brl-cad .. albeit slow and problematic, you can generally only create them programmaticly or via iges import
03:58.28SuperTazand the physics engine support would be nice to have, too
03:59.01brlcadmore importantly, though, is a completely new (re)implementation and integration of a brep/nurbs primitive
03:59.08SuperTazof course, with nearly a million lines of code already in the project, getting acquainted with the guts of something I haven't even seen, yet should be a bit of a challenge ;)
03:59.48SuperTazbrlcad: essentially, you're going to add NURBS to the GUI modeller?
03:59.49brlcadpoolio: I've worked on it some, but I'm trying to find someone else who can work on the step converter
04:00.34SuperTazso you can do what they did with Explore in the mid 90's, when they added NURBS and blob modelling to the solids modelling
04:00.39brlcadSuperTaz: also fortunately, the package is fairly compartmentalized into various tools and libraries.. so you don't necessarily need to understand the majority of those millino lines before you can make something useful/interesting/improved
04:01.13SuperTazbrlcad: good to know
04:01.20SuperTazI did notice that in the diagram
04:01.37poolioSuperTaz: I'm a fairly young amateur coder and if you hvae a specific project, you can probably learn most of what you need to know in at most a couple weeks
04:01.39SuperTazof course, physics and materials are both fairly complicated
04:01.44brlcadyes, going to add nurbs modeling to the gui -- probably focusing more on a new gui instead of hooking it into mged .. though mged might get some functionality in that area .. still tbd
04:02.21brlcadSuperTaz: diagram?
04:02.48SuperTazpoolio: I used to do standards work and R&D at a fortune 50 manufacturer, so I know...but there's a different between finding where to put the shoehorn, and understand why the shoehorn works :)
04:03.01SuperTazbrl: flowchart of how data moves?
04:03.03SuperTazon the web
04:03.13poolioSuperTaz: yep, I'm currently satisfied with just sticking the shoehorn in there.
04:04.12SuperTazpool: that's good for smaller stuff, but for major undertakings, such as interfacing complex libraries like a physics engine, you really have to understand the mechanics of the shoe, shoehorn, sock, and foot
04:04.43SuperTazjust takes a little longer :)
04:05.00SuperTazand is a little more frustrating when you get things wrong, until you're intimately familiar with it :)
04:05.02poolioSuperTaz: true, you're at a far differnet leve than I
04:05.33brlcadSuperTaz: ahh, that old thing .. yes ;)
04:05.46SuperTazhehehe
04:06.02poolioW0000000000T.
04:06.06poolioworking :D :D
04:06.24SuperTazgetting the physics stuff in isn't going to happen easily
04:06.39SuperTazbtw, brl...specifying the cflags didn't help
04:06.44SuperTazit still re-introduced the whitespace
04:07.18SuperTazshame I don't have contact info for Frances from Xaos, anymore
04:07.44SuperTazshe would have been really adept at getting you your 2D compositor in place in a few days of effort
04:08.14SuperTazshe programmed most of the effects in Xaos Tools
04:09.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in:
04:09.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: refactor the entire library processing so that it uses the exact same list that
04:09.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: is used to compile from configure without maintaining a separate list in here.
04:09.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: add additional options for libdir, includedir, and ldflags too. still need to
04:09.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: scan the FLAGS vars for automake vars
04:09.40SuperTazback in the 90's, in the days when an Onyx was the size of a refigerator and was about as powerful as my PC, and when the notion of a z-buffer was so new that you couldn't move the render window, else you'd get artifacts from all over :P
04:10.30SuperTazbtw...it's only the CFLAGS that are seeing injected whitespace
04:10.38SuperTazthe CPPFLAGS and LDFLAGS are just fine
04:12.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: remove the if, just make the EOF check part of the case
04:12.16SuperTazwound up with the following when I tried specifying the same CFLAGS at the commandline that it added:
04:12.17SuperTazhttp://pastebin.ca/594860
04:12.39brlcadCFLAGS is special
04:12.59SuperTazin the short bus sense?
04:13.17SuperTazor as in you have oodles of special handling in there (which I seemed to notice...)
04:13.34yukonbobSuperTaz: lots of info on Frances Dose on the 'net, if she's the one you were thinking of that worked at Xaos
04:13.42pooliobrlcad: stop touching up mah code ;)
04:13.48pooliowell I guess that was yours but ... heh :)
04:14.00brlcadno, there's only one place where CFLAGS is treated special and it's done to override autoconf's default -g -O2 behavior
04:14.34SuperTazyes, that's the one, yukon :)
04:14.42SuperTazgetting her to contribute would be interesting, though
04:15.46SuperTaznot sure that che could, though
04:15.51SuperTazshe's working for philips now
04:16.21yukonbobhttp://www.francesdose.com/Coder.html
04:16.25SuperTazso she might be contractually prohibited from doing it
04:16.37SuperTazyeah
04:16.43brlcadah, I see what the issue is
04:17.02SuperTazit was pretty cool to learn pandemonium from the person who programmed all of the routine
04:17.16brlcadit's retrying configure because it fails to find X11
04:17.18SuperTazand I also got to meet the GUI designer
04:17.24SuperTazhrmmm
04:17.32SuperTazthat's what it did the first time
04:17.41SuperTazso I specified the location of x11
04:17.43SuperTazand then it found it
04:17.52brlcadchecking for X11 link functionality... no
04:17.55SuperTazhere's my configure line (before the CFLAGS attempt)
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04:18.14SuperTaz./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11R6 --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad --disable-retry
04:18.22SuperTazhrmmm
04:18.28SuperTazany ideas?
04:18.44brlcadyou used that and it gave you http://pastebin.ca/594860 ?
04:23.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: finally rip out the retry code -- causes too many headaches and confusion when the retry also fails since it has the tendency to hide the original real problem.
04:24.48SuperTazyup
04:24.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/ (Makefile.am retry.m4): retry macros are no longer needed, the configure retry code was ripped out
04:25.18brlcadfor some reason, it's not obeying the --disable flag
04:25.59brlcadyou will likely have better luck working off of cvs head now ;)
04:26.06SuperTazhahaha
04:26.19SuperTazI need to install cvs on this box, I suppose
04:26.23SuperTazI only have svn ;)
04:26.43SuperTazcause that's what I use for everything these days :)
04:26.49brlcadwe're doing the conversion over to svn later this year
04:26.57SuperTazahhh, good :)
04:27.09SuperTazahhh
04:27.15SuperTazapple provides cvs
04:27.26brlcadI've converted most of the other projects I work with a long while ago, but brl-cad's conversion will need to be rather careful
04:27.33brlcad~cadcvs
04:28.33ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS:  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
04:28.35SuperTaz*nod*
04:28.35SuperTazI have to go find the instructions for using cvs to suck down brlcad ;)
04:28.36brlcadwe've got almost 25 years of comprehensive cvs history to retain ...
04:28.36brlcadibot: wake up
04:28.45ibotACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"
04:28.46SuperTazwell, you COULD keep the cvs repository around
04:28.48SuperTazthough I'm sure it's possible to keep it
04:29.10brlcadit is perfectly possible, but it's not automatic
04:29.17SuperTaz*nod*
04:29.48pooliobrlcad: what the heck. why was I quicksorting the candidate individuals based on fitness?
04:29.52brlcadand from my perspective, it's absolutely necessary .. not going to import fresh and just leave the history in cvs
04:30.19brlcadpoolio: for crossover selection and other advancement criteria?
04:30.36pooliobrlcad: well they dont need to be sorted for any of those... oh well..
04:30.46poolioill just comment it out, i'm sure i'm going somewhere with it I just have forgotten where
04:31.14SuperTazgood...you SHOULD keep the history
04:31.16brlcadyou have lots of knobs you can tweak, like migrating the top N unmodified/unmutated, droping the bottown M outright, etc
04:32.08SuperTazif you didn't want to use subversion internally, you could just expose nightly builds via svn (script a cvs checkout and a svn checkin)
04:32.31brlcadSuperTaz: we're rather proud of our extensive history, we just may have the oldest repository histories that has remained intact
04:32.35SuperTazI suspect this cvs checkout is gonna take a while
04:32.38pooliobrlcad: well the way I do it is that I use the fitness as a weight, and a weighted random individual picker
04:32.50pooliobrlcad: but I guess for other selection methods it makes sense
04:33.01SuperTazbrlcad: that's awesome :)  I read up on the history of the project...it's part of what attracted me to it :)
04:33.03brlcadthe fact that we started even before cvs existed
04:33.23SuperTazyeah
04:33.42SuperTazwhat did the original team use for version control?
04:33.54PrezKennedya notepad
04:33.56PrezKennedyhaha
04:34.02brlcadtalking to the ohloh folks a few months back, our history does/did go back the farthest of all projects in ohloh
04:34.17brlcadSuperTaz: it was in rcs before moving to cvs
04:34.19SuperTazheh...that's cool
04:34.21SuperTazahhh
04:34.25SuperTazgod...I remember rcs
04:34.38SuperTazalmost forgot that we used to use rcs
04:34.53SuperTazheh
04:34.56SuperTazscary, huh?
04:35.00brlcadwe gave the ohloh folks quite a head turn when brl-cad was added to their index
04:35.12SuperTazit's been a good decade plus since I used ci/co ;)
04:35.27brlcadthey thought their import was catching "all commits to head" when in fact it wasn't
04:35.37SuperTazhahahaha :)
04:35.50brlcadall of brl-cad stats were massively wrong, missing thousands of commits through the 80's
04:36.10SuperTazyikes
04:36.15brlcada little hidden tidbit of knowledge about how cvs works
04:36.29pooliobrlcad: I'm off for the night, but thanks for fixing up my code
04:36.32brlcadthey were only pulling the latest rcs revision from cvs
04:36.37brlcadon head
04:36.41SuperTaz*nod*
04:36.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h): fixed bug where spheres with non-whole radii produced odd results
04:37.02brlcadsince we predated, the rcs revision numbers have continued to be tweaked/incremented over the years for various accounting purposes
04:37.10SuperTaz*nod*
04:37.10brlcadnight poolio
04:37.21SuperTazwow...checkout finally finished :)
04:37.30brlcadthey had to rearchitect their database and reimport all CVS projects when the found that out
04:38.35SuperTazhehehe...nice
04:38.43SuperTaznothing like a paradigm shift :)
04:38.58SuperTazhadn't they ever seen a project that had been ported from rcs to cvs before?!?
04:39.05SuperTazor am I just old?
04:39.10SuperTaz(and I'm not that old!)
04:39.11brlcadyou're just that old ;)
04:39.14poolio480 person years. geeeeez.
04:39.19pooliognite guys
04:39.20SuperTazyikes
04:39.22SuperTaznite poolio
04:40.29SuperTazall I can say is...I wasn't around the last time the Cubs won the World Series ;)
04:41.22brlcadheh, nor was I by a long shot :)
04:41.53SuperTazhow long have you been monkeying around with brl-cad? ;)
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04:43.44brlcadsince just a couple years before mike passed
04:43.50SuperTaz*nod*
04:44.04SuperTazhe passed in 2000, correct?
04:44.04brlcadabout 9 years now
04:44.27brlcadyeah, Nov 2000
04:44.34brlcaddid you know him?
04:44.45SuperTazno, I don't think we ever crossed paths
04:44.56SuperTazunless we met at Siggraph or some such
04:45.55SuperTazbut back in the days of Siggraph (for me), I was mainly in the animation, mastering, and film areas
04:46.03brlcadhard to miss him at siggraph, he was very much in the "elite elders" crowd
04:46.04SuperTaznot as much in the cad area
04:46.10SuperTazhehehe
04:46.28SuperTazyeah, I may have met him in passing in the 90's
04:46.44SuperTazI would remember if I'd had the opportunity to talk in depth
04:47.20brlcadhe really was a brilliant guy (in many ways)
04:47.33brlcadand exceptionally charismatic
04:47.41SuperTazI remember that's where I got my introduction to the guys from MRL at NYU
04:48.06brlcadone of the main reasons I was attracted towards working on brl-cad
04:48.07SuperTazgot to check out their robotics and fab lab there when I was next in NY...that was great
04:48.10SuperTaz*nod*
04:48.18SuperTazit's a shame I never got to know him
04:48.34SuperTazthose are my favorite types of people :)
04:49.04SuperTazat the IETF meetings, that was the crowd I was always around
04:49.14brlcadaha
04:49.16SuperTazused to play nuclear war with the elders :)
04:49.52SuperTaznow that was some fun
04:50.14brlcadspeaking of the ietf.. do you know don merrit?
04:51.14SuperTaznot really
04:51.41SuperTazit's been a few years since I was really involved with the IETF
04:51.44brlcadhe was the long-time ietf representative from BRL / ARL
04:51.48SuperTaz*nod*
04:52.10SuperTazI didn't really know him
04:52.40brlcadjust came to mind because I ran into him at the ball field just last week and some comment about the ietf came up :)
04:52.47SuperTazhehehe
04:53.11SuperTazI knew Scott Bradner and Allison Mankin
04:53.19SuperTazI was in transport
04:53.26SuperTazsigtran/TSVWG
04:53.29SuperTazseamoby
04:53.33SuperTazrohc
04:53.53SuperTazknew Randy Bush
04:54.03SuperTazused to run into him a bunch
04:54.14SuperTaza lot of the guys I worked with were from europe, too
04:54.26brlcadforeign names to me :)
04:54.35SuperTazyeah, different area
04:56.55brlcadso what caught your eye with brl-cad?
04:56.57SuperTazactually, I think he did a bunch of work in the transport area
04:56.59brlcadpresume you haven't used it before?
04:57.06SuperTazno, I still haven't used it ;)
04:57.54SuperTazit was that it's a solids modeller
04:58.06SuperTazand that it can import and export several formats
04:58.39brlcadbeen a bit of a rocky start, from adapting to the conversion to open source, setting up an infrastructure that can grow collaboratively
04:59.00SuperTazessentially, I have a design in my head that I need model and ultimately produce drawings of
04:59.02brlcadfighting the old-age bagged (the modeler's gui) which maintaining active development ;)
04:59.12SuperTazheh :)
04:59.19brlcads/which/while/
04:59.37SuperTazyeah, I figured ;)
04:59.54SuperTaz(btw...configure is running with ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11R6 --prefix=/usr/local/brlcad)
05:00.09SuperTaz(we'll see if it finds X11 and/or completes this time
05:00.10SuperTaz)
05:00.27SuperTazanyway, I need to get this idea out of my head and figure out whether it'll work
05:00.42SuperTazit'd be great if I could simulate what happens when it's dropped
05:00.45brlcadif you get interested in running a performance test, you'll probably also want to add --enable-optimized for faster performance
05:00.50SuperTazbut I realize that won't really happen
05:00.57SuperTazoh?
05:01.02SuperTazI can stop it
05:01.06SuperTazand add that
05:01.14brlcadeither way, it's perfectly fine without it too
05:01.44brlcadbrl-cad also includes a benchmark performance suite that most like running, gives a really historic perspective of your system's performance
05:01.48SuperTazstopped it, added the flag, re-ran it
05:02.20brlcaddon't forget to make clean to clear out the unoptimized object files
05:02.21SuperTaz*nod* yeah, that's pretty cool
05:02.31SuperTazit was in configure, still
05:02.39SuperTazdidn't get to make
05:02.58SuperTazunless you broke the cardinal rule, and configure compiles more than tests??
05:03.03brlcadyou can run the benchmark either via "make benchmark" after the regular build completes or via the "benchmark" command after installation completes
05:03.11SuperTaz*nod*
05:03.17SuperTazI'll probably install first
05:04.09PrezKennedyalright you old folks time for me to hit the hay
05:04.09SuperTazthis machine is an old PowerMac G4
05:04.17brlcadPrezKennedy: heh
05:04.25PrezKennedycrazy people expect me to care about their hardware problems on a friday morning
05:04.29SuperTazheh
05:04.39SuperTazneither am I, neither am I!
05:04.55SuperTazrelative to some people, I'm quite young
05:05.32SuperTazI haven't even lived half of my life (I hope)
05:05.39brlcadand with the upcoming advancements in medicine, one might live to be 300
05:05.56brlcad*ahem*
05:06.00SuperTazwell, I CERTAINLY haven't lived half of my life if I break 150 :)
05:06.16SuperTazor 120
05:06.18SuperTazor 100
05:06.21brlcadyou don't look a day over 130
05:06.21PrezKennedyi havent even hit a quarter of mine
05:06.23SuperTaz. . .
05:06.26PrezKennedyi win!
05:06.35SuperTazwell
05:06.38SuperTazyes, you win
05:06.41SuperTazI suppose
05:06.48SuperTazif it's a contest
05:06.50brlcaddunno
05:06.54brlcadwith a name like PrezKennedy
05:07.04brlcadsounds like a recipe for "early retirement"
05:07.08SuperTazhahahaha
05:07.20SuperTazhe may have lived half of his life already, and he just doesn't know it
05:07.40SuperTazassuming he's at least in the second half of his teens
05:07.51PrezKennedyearly 20's
05:08.02SuperTazahhh
05:08.14brlcadthat's approaching mid-life crisis then
05:08.14SuperTaz<==== not early 20's ;)
05:09.33brlcadage is but a state of mind and I'm getting younger every day
05:09.41SuperTazheh
05:09.51SuperTazkennedy was 46 when he died
05:10.08SuperTazso if you're 23 or older, you're screwed, son ;)
05:10.31SuperTaz(yes, I had to look that one up)
05:10.53PrezKennedyno relation
05:10.56PrezKennedyso im not worried
05:11.04SuperTazwow...he won't even know where he was when the challenger exploded
05:11.12SuperTazgeez
05:11.35PrezKennedygive it a few years and neither will you ;-)
05:11.58SuperTazyou know...that's something that will stick in my mind for the rest of my life
05:12.32SuperTazI remember exactly where I was
05:12.36SuperTazand how stunned I was
05:12.49SuperTazand we interrupted our lunch to have a minute of silence
05:13.48brlcadhad a really interesting lecture about the name for those "life anchor" events in psychology in college
05:13.52SuperTazI felt so awful for her students
05:13.58brlcadhow you can date generations by those events
05:13.59SuperTazyeah?
05:14.05SuperTazit's true
05:14.11brlcadas one tends to stick out moreso than others
05:14.17brlcadeven as other major events occur
05:14.21SuperTazI've had more than one of them, unfortunately
05:14.54SuperTazthat, the world trade center bombing, the oklahoma city bombing, the final attack on the world trade center
05:15.17brlcadyep
05:15.34SuperTazokay...configure completed that time
05:15.42SuperTazI'm going to scroll back to see if it caught X11
05:16.07SuperTazlooks like it
05:16.14SuperTaz13 minutes, 37 seconds to configure
05:16.21SuperTazthe joy of a G4 400
05:16.34SuperTazmake will take hours, I'm sure
05:17.52SuperTazprobably let it grind away while I sleep ;)
05:18.47SuperTaztake it psych 101 was after the challenger exploded for you? ;)
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05:20.04tofuothers being landing on the moon, kennedy being shot, the tsunami, cuban missile crisis, pearl harbor, ...
05:20.09SuperTazheh
05:20.23SuperTazyou were certainly not alive for all of those?
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05:20.45brlcadheck no
05:20.47SuperTazkatrina
05:21.14brlcaddoubt katrina was "big enough"
05:21.24PrezKennedygnight folks
05:21.27SuperTazI'm guessing psych 101 for you was somewhere between the challenger exploding and the first world trade center bombing?
05:21.28brlcadgenerally has to be "shocking"
05:21.33brlcadnot just tragic
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05:21.53SuperTazI dunno...katrina was pretty profound for a lot of people
05:22.06SuperTazand pretty shocking
05:22.38SuperTazthat the government couldn't handle it, that they let the levees fail, that a HUGE piece of american history was wiped out (NO had a LOT of history that was destroyed)
05:22.39brlcadno, I experienced challenger up front and center -- I was one of millions of kids in grade school that tuned in from the classroom attently watching the launch
05:22.47SuperTaz*nod*
05:23.00SuperTazthat puts you in your late 20's to early 30's
05:23.14brlcadthereabouts
05:23.25SuperTazwe weren't watching the launch
05:23.30SuperTazwe were having lunch
05:24.02SuperTazthe kitchen staff were listening to the launch on the radio
05:24.09SuperTazand came out into the lunchroom to tell the asst. headmaster, whose table I was sitting at
05:24.41SuperTazat the time, I still had dreams of being an astronaut
05:24.49SuperTazhadn't quite broken the height limit, yet
05:26.06SuperTazbtw...I'd be a fan of seeing the site redone in rails
05:26.40SuperTazas opposed to drupal/mediawiki
05:26.48SuperTazjust a personal bias ;)
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05:29.27brlcad:)
05:30.04brlcador lack thereof ;)
05:30.07SuperTazhahahaha
05:30.11SuperTazcomplete lack thereof
05:30.15SuperTazI develop that way, too ;)
05:30.19SuperTazit makes me more efficient
05:32.46SuperTazthere don't seem to be any open source precision physics engines, btw
05:33.27SuperTazand the real-time physics engines are pretty much useless for simulation, unless you want them for basic animation purposes only, instead of for simulation
05:35.05brlcadlooked at ODE?
05:35.12SuperTazyeah
05:35.29SuperTazit's realtime rigid body
05:35.47SuperTaz<PROTECTED>
05:35.53SuperTazi.e. games engine
05:36.05brlcadpart of the puzzle for a games engine
05:36.09SuperTazor so it seems...I'm reading more
05:36.21brlcadthough useful for basic physics interactions too
05:36.28SuperTazyes
05:37.32SuperTazbut if I put a physics engine into BRL-CAD, I'd want it to tell me how much force was applied at impact, and whether it exceeds deformation and breakage characteristics of a material
05:38.22brlcadthere are only a couple open source libs, ode being one of the best
05:38.24SuperTazthough that may all be possible, in which case it'd be quite adequate
05:38.37brlcadit could possibly do that, but you'd have to break up your problem domain some, I'd imagine
05:38.51brlcaddoubt the Bullet library could handle that either
05:38.55SuperTazyeah, and that could defeat the purpose
05:39.03SuperTazno...bullet is lower-end than ODE
05:39.04brlcadthough I've seen bullet do deformation dynamics too
05:39.09SuperTazcan it?
05:39.16SuperTazit seems to be lower-end than ODE
05:39.21brlcadit is
05:39.26SuperTazdeformation is pretty high-end
05:39.37brlcadit doesn't do all the work for you
05:40.09brlcadeffectively hacked together, doing some of the interactions yourself letting bullet handle the first order physics
05:40.20SuperTazahhh
05:40.58SuperTazI don't really care about lots and lots of deformation...I'm more concerned with impact forces and material ratings
05:41.15SuperTazwhich are pretty exact
05:41.46brlcadODE's probably the farthest along, but they're also still mostly looking at first order rigid body dynamics
05:41.57brlcadlow energy interations, inelastic deformations
05:42.14SuperTaz*nod*
05:42.25SuperTazit's just not there, yet
05:44.30brlcadthey are what I'd planned on starting with for the new modeling interface simply because they're still the farthest along and can help set up basic interactions (even just for "good" collision detection)
05:44.44brlcadand adding on material interactions down the road
05:44.47SuperTaz*nod*
05:45.22SuperTazthe real question should be what you're planning on implementing it for
05:45.41SuperTazyou shouldn't be implementing a physics engine just to implement a physics engine
05:45.47brlcadactually nearly the same purpose you mentioned would be the driver
05:45.54SuperTazyou should be doing it with a specific application in mind
05:45.56SuperTaz*nod*
05:46.09SuperTazwell, it'd be a sensible part of a materials system :)
05:47.05brlcadit would be amusing to out-perform the (closed) physics interaction codes that hook up with brl-cad for performing V/L analyses
05:48.03SuperTazdon't know that that would happen
05:48.15SuperTazi'd imagine they're pretty well optimized
05:48.21brlcadheh
05:48.29brlcadyou'd think that wouldn't you.. :)
05:48.47SuperTazyou would
05:48.54SuperTazdoesn't mean it's true
05:48.57SuperTazbut you'd hope ;)
05:49.47brlcadthe premiere code that does the interaction is far from real-time, also takes extensive prepartion to set up
05:49.49SuperTazthey used ODE for eternal sunshine of the spotless mind??
05:50.06SuperTazwell, real-time = less accurate
05:50.17SuperTazyou're talking about precision vs. speed
05:50.35SuperTazprecision is definitely better in materials simulations
05:52.05brlcadyep
05:53.29brlcadwhen you care that it's "rolled aluminum 4122" vs "hardened aluminum 5293" compared to the sims that just care that it was "aluminum" or even worse "some metal" material
05:53.55SuperTazwell, for materials simulations, you always care
05:53.56SuperTaza lot
05:54.33brlcaddepends on what you mean by a materials simulation I'd think
05:54.51SuperTazif you're trying to determine what's going to happen when you drop something from 50 feet, you care about the properties of the materials, how they dampen force, shock, and momentum, etc.
05:55.43brlcadwell sure, that's a very specific relatively high-energy interaction
05:55.57SuperTazthat's what I need to simulate :)
05:56.24brlcadsimulate dropping that material from 1 inch, and the simulation becomes very different
05:56.48SuperTazactually, it's harder at 1 inch than at 50 feet
05:56.57SuperTazbecause you have to be far more precise
05:57.13SuperTazcalculations require high precision at 1"
05:57.22brlcadstill, depending on the purpose
05:57.25SuperTazat 50', they just have to be accurate
05:57.49brlcadthere was an implicit constraint of looking at the same order of magnitude change
05:57.59SuperTazheh :)
05:58.00SuperTazokay
05:58.00brlcade.g. "how much mass is retained"
05:58.12brlcadvery different between the two
05:59.15brlcadbut I agree that you can ask just as hard if not harder questions for any interaction
05:59.50SuperTaz*nod*
06:00.38SuperTazit should be sufficient to estimate how much force is applied to what areas, and whether deformation/breakage/absorption/damping threshholds are crossed
06:00.59SuperTazand then what amount of energy is translated, in what direction, and so on
06:01.48SuperTazbasically, if I have 4 pieces of steel and dampers between them, and hit them with something, how much will each move/rebound if they're on the floor
06:03.50SuperTazwell, I used the example because the ground doesn't move
06:04.00SuperTazit's a simpler calculation
06:04.09brlcadneither does a 70 ton tank generally speaking ;)
06:04.15SuperTazright
06:04.16brlcadat least not significantly
06:04.59SuperTazactually, they move about the same amount, when it's a relatively low energy application (i.e. dropping 10 lbs 50 feet onto the stack)
06:05.45SuperTazthey absorb/dissipate with similar characteristics
06:05.56SuperTazit's stuff like the human body that gets harder
06:05.59SuperTazbut you can cheat
06:06.04brlcadyup
06:06.15SuperTazessentially, you can similate a ballistics gel primitive
06:06.20SuperTazand then you get close enough
06:06.27brlcadthe velocities are generally much different too
06:06.36SuperTazyes
06:06.38SuperTazoops
06:06.54SuperTazhrmmm...it's on opennurbs
06:07.07brlcadhah, wow
06:07.12SuperTazslow, huh? :)
06:07.17brlcadquite
06:07.22SuperTazG4 400 :)
06:07.23brlcadthat a g4?
06:07.25brlcadheh
06:07.28SuperTazyup
06:07.31SuperTazit's archaic
06:07.37SuperTazno $$ to upgrade it
06:07.48SuperTazwould be nice to bump it up to a faster G4
06:07.53SuperTazsomeday...
06:07.53brlcadthat's probably going to take about 2 hours from start to finish
06:08.01SuperTaz2 hours isn't too bad
06:08.59SuperTazheh
06:09.00SuperTaznice
06:09.47SuperTazyou working for DoD?
06:09.48brlcadused to take 2, but opennurbs and other developments over the past year have slowed things down
06:09.59SuperTazyeah, I'm sure they'd add to it
06:10.39brlcadaside from g++ just taking way longer than gcc, in general
06:11.02SuperTazSGI tried to hire me when they bought Cray, to figure out how to internetwork the two platforms
06:11.04brlcadthough opennurbs is the only bit that is affected by that
06:11.31SuperTazit's in the d's, now
06:11.36SuperTazopenurbs_defines.cpp
06:11.46SuperTazdetail...
06:11.49brlcadthe one technology sgi did fortunately retain/leverage successfully
06:12.14SuperTazyes, I didn't go work for them
06:12.19brlcadthe craylink fiber that become numalink
06:12.23SuperTazif I had, my life would have been different
06:12.24SuperTazyup
06:12.32SuperTazthat's what I was supposed to work on, too ;)
06:12.53SuperTazthey were all like, WTF are we supposed to do with this?!?
06:13.09brlcad=)
06:13.11SuperTazmeantime, I'd just finished up a contract at Sun, managing a performance lab ;)
06:13.32SuperTazdealing with the (at the time) super-fast OC-3 and OC-12 stuff
06:13.41SuperTazand OMG!!! FIBER TO THE DESKTOP!!!
06:14.23SuperTaznothing like trying to determine why a driver is caught in a lock-spin-lock pattern, instead of spin-lock-spin
06:14.49SuperTazdamned drivers were slower than 100M until that got fixed
06:14.56brlcadi still often wish apple would have bought out sgi to recover the high-end graphics niche and supercomputing technologies sgi still held
06:15.16SuperTazyeah, woulda been nice
06:15.25SuperTazbut it didn't happen
06:18.16SuperTazmy G4 would have a 64 meg framebuffer with a z-buffer in it
06:18.24SuperTazand wouldn't be a 16 meg ATI Rage PRo
06:18.26SuperTaz:P
06:18.29brlcadhehe
06:18.35brlcadis that a single?
06:18.44SuperTazactually, though, I know a guy who designs the ATI GPUs :)
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06:19.01SuperTazit's dual
06:19.05SuperTazthe machine is SP, though
06:19.13SuperTazbut I've got a VGA port and a DVI port
06:19.30SuperTazand the damned DVI port won't do 1650
06:19.35SuperTazwhich SUCKS
06:19.50brlcadah, then you could speed up your compile
06:19.51SuperTazbecause I have a Samsung 226BW
06:19.56brlcadyou using -j3 ?
06:20.02SuperTazno
06:20.08SuperTazI normally would have
06:20.20SuperTazbut I was just happy to get it to compile
06:20.26SuperTazit's single proc, single core
06:20.44SuperTazso -j2 or -j3 at the outside are about all you can do to maximize
06:21.02SuperTaznext build I'll do -j3
06:21.07brlcaderm .. "it's dual" but the machine is SP?
06:21.28brlcadit's either got one cpu or two, which is it? :)
06:23.19elite01HT - also known as 1.2 CPUs :)
06:23.46brlcadthe g4 didn't have ht..
06:24.13elite01no idea about macs
06:25.44SuperTazheh
06:25.49SuperTazno
06:25.55SuperTazit's SP
06:25.58SuperTazsingle proc
06:26.03SuperTazit's dual capable
06:26.19SuperTazbut I can't afford a daughter card with two procs
06:26.26SuperTazit's dual headed
06:26.35brlcadah
06:26.35elite01ok
06:26.37SuperTaz(If I want)
06:26.55brlcadthen yeah, -j wouldn't really do much for ya
06:27.03SuperTaz-j2 helps
06:27.13SuperTaz-j3 even, sometimes
06:28.10SuperTazbecause even on a SP machine you can squeeze more efficiency out when one process is io bound and the other is processor bound
06:28.21SuperTaz-j3 can help or hinder
06:28.28SuperTaz-j4 and above only hinder
06:28.38elite01makes sense
06:29.07brlcadusually use something 1.5 to 2x whatever is available for that same reason
06:29.16SuperTazyeah
06:29.29SuperTazas I said before, though
06:29.34brlcadparticularly for autocruft apps that have big i/o interlacing phases
06:29.41SuperTazI just was happy enough to get the compile even STARTED ;)
06:30.03SuperTazopennurbs...STILL
06:30.11SuperTazplanesurface
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06:30.50SuperTazI must have forgotten to feed the hamster before I plugged it in to the accelerator port...
06:30.58SuperTaztoo late now
06:31.09SuperTazbrb...need to take the dog out :)
06:33.46MinuteElectronYou mean... That I have been to bed and woken up and you were at work all that time.....
06:41.20SuperTazI think he does
06:41.42SuperTaztrue dedication (or lack of home life)
06:41.50SuperTazoh, FINALLY
06:41.59SuperTazlinking opennurbs
06:50.50SuperTazok...I'm off ot bed
06:50.54SuperTaznight night all :)
06:51.05MinuteElectrongoodnight
07:16.17brlcadMinuteElectron: something like that
07:16.26MinuteElectron:P
07:17.00MinuteElectronhaving a look at some of them webpages in that text document, the design I am making at the moment seams a bit... bland. I am making some changes to it.
07:20.21brlcadsounds good
07:20.41brlcadlike I said, i really do expect that will be the hardest and probably the most time consuming part to get doing
07:20.50brlcads/doing/going/
07:50.42MinuteElectronbrlcad: Does the logo need alpha transparency or can I downgrade it to single-color transparency?
08:05.23MinuteElectronbrlcad: If you would like to take a look and give your views on a preliminary outline I have done, not much yet, but I would rather restyle it now than once I finished the entire thing - http://localhost/drupal-5.1/
08:05.33MinuteElectronoops http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
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12:40.24pooliomornin'
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13:39.43pooliobrlcad: sometime today it'd be sweet if you could explain a bit to me how to get a binary tree from the internal stored CSG tree :)
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14:09.47brlcadpoolio: okay, but it'll be a while
14:10.05pooliobrlcad: alright. I'm just having issues understanding how everything is stored and how to interact with the stored trees
14:10.52poolioany source code examples anywhere? I see the red black tree stuff, is that what I'm looking for?
14:10.56MinuteElectronbrlcad: busy?
14:11.35brlcadpoolio: no, but you could certainly store your tree in a rb treee
14:11.38brlcadMinuteElectron: a bit
14:12.04MinuteElectronOkay, whe you get a chance your opinon on http://localhost/drupal-5.1/ would be appreciated. I have done a lot of work on it this morning, but there is no rush.
14:12.12brlcadpoolio: probably first want to get familiar with creating csg trees (man libwdb, look in src/proc-db and/or src/mk)
14:12.21brlcadMinuteElectron: localhost doesn't help me :)
14:12.34MinuteElectronOops, http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
14:12.37pooliobrlcad: thanks
14:13.22pooliobrlcad: is there a way to work online with the internally stored tree? like duplicate an entire CSG tree and the modify it internally and save it to a new database?
14:13.24brlcadpoolio: then after you know how to create them, you can look at the code that traverses them -- the converters are pretty boilerplate src/conv/
14:13.40poolioalright cool. that should be plenty to start me off with, thanks for the pointers
14:13.40brlcadthere are at least three different ways to traverse too
14:13.51MinuteElectronThe logos on the side are there to make the sidebar bigger for the time being, but will be removed once I add more stuff to the sidebar.
14:13.51poolioeek. and i'm sure advantages and disadvantages for reach
14:14.05brlcaddb_walk_tree() being one, manual iteration, and another whose name escapes me
14:15.15brlcadMinuteElectron: looking like progress, though I'd remove all the powered by spam on the panel :) .. there should be a page dedicated that talks about the site, gives credits
14:15.39MinuteElectronYeah, as I said - that was just to make the sidebar longer.
14:15.53brlcadah, missed that
14:16.01MinuteElectrondw
14:16.43MinuteElectronbrlcad: I wasn't keeping logs, can you remind me what is going into MediaWiki and what is going into Drupal?
14:17.36brlcadmediawiki is all of the dynamic content, drupal is for the stuff that hooks into a database or stuff that is fairly static
14:18.24brlcade.g. there's going to be a knowledge base "faq" of sorts -- that's entirely mediawiki
14:19.01brlcadbut a profile page of premiere brl-cad users would be in a drupal page
14:19.04MinuteElectronOkay, that gives me a good starting point.
14:20.11MinuteElectronSo as a brainstorm:
14:20.28MinuteElectronWhat are the items going to be listed on the navigation?
14:20.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/brlcad-config.in: strip out flags that have ${variables} in them that refer to the src path
14:21.00MinuteElectronI presume you want 'Home', 'About', 'News'
14:22.29MinuteElectronI guess that they will all be on Drupal.
14:22.37MinuteElectronDownload would also be on Drupal
14:23.31MinuteElectronand probably Contact (although I am not sure whether or not it would be best to use a MediaWiki extension, Drupal extension or custom form for that).
14:23.51MinuteElectronThen the documentation and FAQ would be on MediaWiki.
14:23.52brlcadMinuteElectron: http://my.brlcad.org/sitemap.txt
14:24.01MinuteElectronOh, cool.
14:24.06brlcadsubject to change and rearrangmenet of course, but that's a start
14:24.13MinuteElectronYou always seem to be one step ahead of me :P
14:24.35brlcadbeen ready for this for quite a while -- just need someone to actually do it and take all the glory ;)
14:26.03brlcadalso, be sure to drop the register mark -- I'm not convinced the phrase itself is registered any more, at most it's a TM
14:26.28MinuteElectronok
14:45.21poolio|10:18| <@    brlcad> mediawiki is all of the dynamic content, drupal is for the stuff that hooks into a  database or stuff that is fairly static
14:45.24poolio|10:18| <@    brlcad> e.g. there's going to be a knowledge base "faq" of sorts -- that's entirely  mediawiki
14:45.27poolio|10:19| <@    brlcad> but a profile page of premiere brl-cad users would be in a drupal page
14:45.32poolioah sorry guys
14:45.38poolioMiddle mouse button in dismay :\
15:29.18SuperTazElapsed compilation time: 3 hours, 33 minutes, 42 seconds
15:29.29SuperTazthat's how long it takes on a G4 400
15:30.02brlcadheh SuperTaz ..
15:30.29SuperTazsad, huh?
15:31.03brlcadi thought my dual 500 g4 was slow :)
15:31.17SuperTazhahaha
15:31.31SuperTazthis thing crawls :)
15:32.19pooliomakes my aging laptop feel speedy :)
15:32.29SuperTazheh :)
15:33.05SuperTazyeah...I'm doing make install, first
15:33.47pooliobrlcad: I'm taking g2asc.c and stripping it to my needs :)
15:46.47MinuteElectronbrlcad: http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/?q=user/register and http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
15:47.50MinuteElectronPlease suggest improvements, everything is working (fully tested in Safari, IE, Firefox and Safari) except the list in the left box when you are logged in and the tabs (no longer tabs) in IE.
15:49.04SuperTazinstall just finished
15:50.00pooliois the color scheme permanent? like the "solid modeling for a strong defense" banner doesn't really fit well with the left nav bar
15:50.22MinuteElectronIt can be changed, what color do you suggest?
15:50.54pooliodunno, i'm not a good design person, I just don't think it works :P
15:51.02MinuteElectronhmm
15:51.07poolioYou could try just matching it to the left nav green
15:51.17MinuteElectronperhaps, one sec
15:51.53pooliohttp://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/themes/brlcad/gradient.jpg <-- scale it down pleeeeease :)
15:52.31SuperTazMinimum run time is 3 minutes, 12 seconds
15:52.31SuperTazMaximum run time is 30 minutes
15:52.31SuperTazEstimated   time is 9 minutes, 36 seconds
15:52.59MinuteElectronpoolio: Will do once I am finished.
15:53.53MinuteElectronpoolio: look now
15:54.07MinuteElectronI think the colors do need to be different.
15:54.18MinuteElectronLet me try a different one
15:55.25SuperTazinteresting watching this thing run
15:55.25poolioMinuteElectron: I don't think it's just the colors, I think my main gripe is I want more of a banner at the top of a page
15:55.34SuperTazprobably doesn't help that I'm doing other things at the same time, though
15:55.42poolionote: my opinion doesn't matter and it is only my opinion, so don't just change it cause I don't like it, other people may think it's awesome :)
15:56.00MinuteElectronno, I need a second opinon
15:56.09MinuteElectronpoolio: so you want the banner to be alightly taller
15:56.46SuperTazheh
15:56.47MinuteElectron*slightly taller?
15:58.38MinuteElectronpoolio: look now
16:00.41SuperTazAbs  Fruit-Punch.local 47236.61 22868.08        27491.27        22049.86        25273.94      31281.82        29366.93        Fri Jun 29 10:59:04 CDT 2007
16:00.41SuperTaz*vgr Fruit-Punch.local 344.76   341.00  490.30  413.22  357.53  2.11    324.82
16:00.41SuperTaz#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
16:00.41SuperTazBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 325
16:00.41SuperTazLogarithmic VGR metric is 2.51  (natural logarithm is 5.78)
16:00.43SuperTaz#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
16:01.57SuperTazthat's a G4 400
16:02.02SuperTazwith other stuff going on
16:02.21brlcadheh, nice
16:03.15SuperTazyeah
16:03.28brlcadSuperTaz: it won't be incredibly affected by other activities on the machine as it is measuring cpu time, wallclock measurements are stored elsewhere
16:03.36brlcadat most, a 10% variance
16:03.45SuperTazless than half the speed of your dual 500 unde 10.2
16:04.01SuperTazbut 10.4 is known to have higher overhead in exchange for more stability
16:04.03brlcadwhich is probably about right given the lineage of those machines
16:04.12SuperTazcould be
16:04.38MinuteElectronbrlcad: busy?
16:04.44SuperTazis your dual 500 a sawtooth, gigabit ethernet, digital audio, or quicksilver?
16:15.17SuperTazwell, mged appears to actually run :)
16:27.55MinuteElectronbrlcad: Please can you take a look at the website?
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16:54.36AchiestDragonBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 3421
16:54.38AchiestDragonLogarithmic VGR metric is 3.53  (natural logarithm is 8.14)
16:54.49SuperTazwhat is that?
16:54.54SuperTaz(arch)
16:55.31SuperTaznot bad
16:58.03elite01quad xeon and just a gig of ram? pah! :)
16:58.48AchiestDragonfor £200 GBP  im not grumbling
17:00.15elite01uh
17:00.15elite01ook
17:00.31brlcadSuperTaz: I suspect with the right CFLAGS, you'd actually come out at around 400MHz .. the G4 is almost right on 100 vgr's per MHz
17:00.44brlcads/400MHz/400 vgrs/
17:02.32elite01where's thy benchmark result stored?
17:02.48brlcadelite01: hm?
17:02.53elite01in brlcad?
17:02.59elite01some file?
17:03.08brlcaddon't understand the question
17:03.27brlcadwhen you run the benchmark, it outputs the results right then and there as well as writing out to log files
17:03.29elite01if i run the brlcad benchmark, is the result stored in some file or just printed to the console?
17:03.30SuperTazyou think I could get it that high?
17:04.22elite01can't find the log file, just individual ones for the pictures
17:04.39brlcadelite01: the file named "summary" has the important details
17:04.41brlcadtwo lines per run
17:05.19brlcadif you are using the latest cvs head sources, then there's also a run-####-benchmark.log file that has the entire output that you saw during the run written to a file
17:05.43elite01hmm i can't find either
17:06.35elite01anyway, this centrino duo seems to be pretty decent
17:08.21*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
17:08.28AchiestDragonits ony a dual cpu xeon it shows up as 4 because of hyperthreading
17:08.37elite01i see
17:08.53SuperTazHT is blech
17:09.03SuperTazget one with dual cores :)
17:09.14elite01still, i just have 3324.60 bogomips on each cpu (which of course precisely describes the performance, as the name implies)
17:10.45brlcadelite01: are you running from cvs head?
17:10.52brlcadif so, the results are in the bench/ dir
17:10.54elite01hmm no, just 7.10
17:13.59elite01Benchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 3544
17:13.59elite01Logarithmic VGR metric is 3,55  (natural logarithm is 8,17)
17:14.03elite01look at that, AchiestDragon :P
17:14.12elite01on a T2300
17:14.13elite01gtg, cu
18:09.21*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch)
18:15.45AchiestDragonnot bad
18:16.59AchiestDragonbut   as you can see from this pic  http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/desk.jpg  i have 3 dual xeon machines atm
18:22.26AchiestDragoni have been looking at getting a dual quad core xeon mobo and chips but there a bit overpriced atm
18:23.04SuperTazheh
18:27.00brlcadAchiestDragon: hehe, a rack in your room.. nice
18:27.08brlcadthat's gotta be a bit noisy
18:27.22brlcadthat wood paneling?
18:27.54*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
18:28.04AchiestDragonits got a half door it makes the systems a bit quieter  , no its cardboard on the sides the side pannels are a bit tatty
18:28.21brlcadah
18:29.26dtidrowjust ran 'make benchmark' on my Dell M90 here: 5620
18:29.54*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
18:29.58dtidrownot too shabby for a latop  :-)
18:30.06AchiestDragon:)
18:30.31dtidrowof course, work owns it  ;-)
18:31.02dtidrowno way I could afford a $7k laptop...
18:31.17brlcadthat's pretty sweet for a laptop
18:31.30dtidrowmbp?
18:32.05dtidrowyou want system specs?
18:32.09dtidrow10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7600  @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 2802MB/3288MB Free] 10disk[Total : 3.28GB/48.48GB Free] 10video[Quadro FX 2500M] 10sound[]
18:34.03*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=cadguy@c-67-166-125-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
18:34.09dtidrowthere's actually 4GB of system memory, but apparently it can only access ~3.3GB of it in 32-bit mode - I'd have to switch to a 64-bit install to get at  the rest
18:35.22poolioman. i want a new laptop now :P
18:35.46brlcadmac book pro
18:36.01dtidrowoh, yeah - 1920x1200 flatpanel  :-)
18:36.15brlcadah, not that one
18:36.23brlcadi won't get that one for a few more weeks
18:36.32poolio...bastard
18:36.35brlcadi have the one right before it now
18:36.45pooliobrlcad: send me the old one ;)
18:36.49dtidrowlol
18:36.50brlcadhehe
18:37.07brlcadthat new display on those is amazing
18:37.34poolioyou're gonna kill your eyes looking at that flat panel. 1600 is bad enough
18:37.35dtidrowwish it had one of the mobile G80-based gfx cards, though...
18:37.54dtidrowpixels?  what pixels?   ;-)
18:38.53dtidrowyeah, I've had to up the font size on most of my apps - turning forty sucks...
18:38.56AchiestDragoni like the dell 2405fpw  24" lcd i have , the new 32" is even better aparantly
18:39.30dtidrowand the prices for those have really come down, too
18:39.53AchiestDragonthey seem to be droping each month
18:40.10dtidrowI have one at home, but those new 24" LCD's for around $650 are really tempting...
18:40.51AchiestDragonbtw if you still have a crt  a new 19" lcd will pay for itself 2 years just by what you save in power over a 20" crt
18:41.25poolioyeah yeah. once I get my paycheck I might think about investing in one to take with me to college
18:43.38MinuteElectronI sit here with a feeling of awe. I thought getting a 19" LCD flat panel monitor was good, yet you guys talk about 24" LCD's as if they are mid-range.
18:44.14dtidrowthey are now  :-)
18:44.20AchiestDragonyes
18:44.36dtidrowjust a couple of years ago they were $2000 or more
18:44.50MinuteElectronHeh, my 2.4Ghz processor could never compete with what you guys are benchmarking at.
18:45.28brlcad24"?  pffft.
18:45.35dtidrowI need to try my Athlon X2 at home and see how it does - still haven't finished updating it
18:45.52dtidrowMike would be proud  ;-)
18:45.58brlcad:-)
18:45.58AchiestDragonhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Dell-Ultrasharp-2407WFP-24-LCD-Flat-Panel-Monitor_W0QQitemZ120134332519QQihZ002QQcategoryZ174QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
18:47.50dtidrowhttp://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3066352&CatId=2775 - holy crap
18:47.57dtidrowwonder if it's any good....
18:48.23dtidrow$440 for a 24" 1920x1200???  damn!
18:51.19brlcadnice
18:51.46dtidrowyeah - wonder what's wrong with it...  ;-)
18:52.02pooliobrlcad: if my monitor "breaks" and I suddenly cannot work.... hmmm....
18:52.30dtidrowlol
18:52.34brlcadi probably have an old 12" b&w crt I could loan ya
18:52.41dtidrowrofl
18:53.02pooliobrlcad: damn you. :P
18:53.06brlcadg'evening cadguy
18:53.21cadguyTop of the day brlcad
18:53.28brlcador afternoon or whatever it is
18:54.13dtidrowyeah, that was nice
18:54.22cadguyAnybody running out to get their iPhone today?
18:54.31dtidrowpfft!
18:54.50AchiestDragonthe 30" dell ones are £815 GBP here atm
18:55.44SuperTazI have a 22" Samsung
18:55.44SuperTaz2ms
18:55.54SuperTaznicest damned monitor I've seen
18:56.01SuperTazstill gives me wood
18:56.11brlcadcadguy: probably tomorrow
18:56.31MinuteElectronSuperTaz: What model?
18:56.35dtidrowSuperTaz: which model?
18:56.37brlcadmaybe later today, but pretty busy afternoon
18:56.39dtidrowgmta
18:57.02SuperTazit's a 226BW
18:57.17MinuteElectronI have a 940N
18:57.23poolioYou guys and your toys, share the weatlh.
18:57.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca)
18:57.44MinuteElectronSuperTaz: It is the same, but only 19" and only has analog input and is not widescreen.
18:58.06dtidrowhttp://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2881203&CatId=2775 - not bad...
18:58.21dtidrow$320 before the rebate
18:58.39MinuteElectron<-- mine http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2487377&sku=S203-1942
18:59.07SuperTazso, basically, it's a different monitor ;)
18:59.22MinuteElectronyeah
18:59.45MinuteElectron*space
18:59.59IriX64http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos (stuff albumn) 1st picture
19:01.42poolioWow guys
19:01.56pooliothis is my monitor: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2995&review=Asus+W3J
19:02.02dtidrowIriX64: isn't working here
19:02.12IriX64that url?
19:02.17IriX64just a sec
19:02.25poolioIriX64: it never works for me
19:02.42dtidrowpoolio: nice compact laptop  :-)
19:02.44pooliodtidrow: xml parsing error?
19:02.49IriX64try now
19:02.59pooliodtidrow: Yes it is, the issue I have is it's a bit small and uncomfortable for 9 hour work days.
19:03.07dtidrowXML Parsing Error: syntax error
19:03.07dtidrowLocation: http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos/
19:03.07dtidrowLine Number 3, Column 49:<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0//EN">
19:03.07dtidrow------------------------------------------------^
19:03.09poolioI'm looking to get an ultraportable for college, like a 12 or 13"
19:03.26IriX64what are you using?
19:03.30*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
19:03.38*** join/#brlcad jimmybrb (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
19:04.01dtidrowfirefox v.1.5.0.12
19:10.12IriX64ftp://www3.sympatico.ca/      try that, havoc.png
19:11.16cadguypoolio:  I've been impressed with the MacBook.  Nice CPU.  The only thing it lacks is a really high performance graphics chip (they save that for the Pro)
19:11.16dtidrowugh - not loading  :-\
19:11.25IriX64:)
19:11.57pooliocadguy: Yeah, I'm not sure I want a macbook. They're a bit overpriced for what you get and everyone has them. I'd also want something smaller and with better battery life I think
19:12.20poolioThis 14" is really nice, and a nice GPU, the issue is just that the battery life is short cause of the GPU and it's a bit too heavy to trek around with.
19:13.33cadguyI've also had good luck with Lenovo.  My issues is I want something *reliable*.  The Macs and Lenovo's have been good to me.
19:13.34pooliocadguy: and as corny as it is, I need my right mouse button, mainly for key combos in my WM
19:13.52pooliois there a 12 or 13" lenovo?
19:14.37poolioI think with the new macbook pros they should have just gone ahead and divided it in two. I mean how often do you find yourself Ctrl+Clicking...there's a reason the mighty mouse exists for the desktop, now give us right click on the laptops
19:15.25dtidrowdang, this laptop isn't as expensive as I thought - ~$4200 for this configuration
19:15.35cadguyCheck the lenovo X series.
19:15.38poolioare you kidding me?
19:15.44pooliodtidrow: that sounds hella expensive to me
19:15.54dtidrowless than what I thought it was
19:15.57cadguyAgain, my criteria is *reliable*
19:16.04dtidrowI was guessing it was around $7000
19:16.27pooliocadguy: as opposed to? bleeding edge?
19:16.32cadguy61's start at 1215.00 US
19:17.09pooliocadguy: ugh, they are only XGA?
19:17.09cadguygotta go get lunch
19:17.21pooliocadguy: enjoy
19:18.29brlcadcadguy: is that the same chris johnson??
19:18.39brlcad(from the article)
19:18.41MinuteElectroncadguy: 61" monitor?
19:18.42IriX64dtidrow: check that site for rotated :)
19:19.33MinuteElectronhttp://82.7.33.28/public/100_1028.jpg <-- my monitor
19:19.36MinuteElectron*computer
19:20.33IriX64back to my compile :)
19:20.45dtidrowIriX64: which site?
19:20.56poolioMinuteElectron: Do I spy mIRC?
19:21.13MinuteElectronNo, that would be ChatZilla.
19:21.54MinuteElectronpoolio: lol, what is bad about mIRC?
19:22.11SuperTazwrong question
19:22.15poolio...nothing
19:22.20MinuteElectronoh,
19:22.22MinuteElectronI see,
19:22.25MinuteElectronmIRC is good.
19:25.21MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you busy?
19:25.34brlcadMinuteElectron: always
19:25.34brlcadwhat's up?
19:26.50MinuteElectronI altered the colors, added the tabs and added the navigation.
19:27.06brlcadI see I see
19:27.10brlcadhmmm
19:28.10brlcaddon't like the tagline up top, but the bar color is interesting
19:28.12MinuteElectronThe tabs (although they aren't really tabs) don't work properly in IE yet (still trying to diagnose the problem) and the box on the left has this freaky navigation thing which I can't get to go white (when you are logged in).
19:28.35MinuteElectronSo keep the bar, but remove the tagline?
19:28.55MinuteElectronand perhaps make the bar a solid color?
19:29.21IriX64it's beautiful MinuteElectron
19:29.43MinuteElectronIriX64: you really think so? wow, thanks.
19:30.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you still thinking?
19:30.36IriX64first time i've seen it
19:31.09IriX64login username a bit large but that could be a good thing :)
19:31.10brlcaddtidrow and whomever else was following, MBP benchmark results:
19:31.12brlcadBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 5937
19:31.28pooliobrlcad: are you kidding me!?!?!?
19:31.39pooliobrlcad: what kind of crazy optimizations did you do... I've got dual 1.83s and I only got 3k
19:31.40IriX64what else was going on?
19:32.44dtidrowbrlcad: MBP?
19:32.49brlcadpoolio: did you --enable-optimized?
19:32.58brlcaddtidrow: mac book pro
19:33.02dtidrowah
19:33.05IriX64when mine builds i'll try one :)
19:33.18dtidrowwhich cpu?
19:33.33IriX64me? opteron
19:33.57brlcadIntel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7600  @ 2.33GHz
19:34.09dtidrow10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7600  @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz w/ 4096 KB L2 Cache]
19:34.17dtidrowthat one, iow  :-)
19:34.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: update CloseTo signature (takes a Sample (rename to ON_CurveSample or something) to return the closes point)
19:34.36brlcader, you have a 2x2cpu?
19:35.21dtidrowdual core, yes
19:35.28brlcadi.e. two dual cores
19:35.52brlcador a single dual core
19:36.00brlcadthe 2 x is throwing me off
19:36.02dtidrowjust the one dual-core cpu
19:36.07brlcadokay, so same chip
19:36.54brlcaddifference is probably in the OS and optimization options
19:36.56*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
19:36.58dtidrowthe cpu detection logic doesn't make the distinction between cores and cpu packages
19:38.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_curve.h opennurbs_curve.cpp): flesh out implementation of CloseTo (generic curve version samples the curve and uses a binary search to try and find the closest point)
19:40.18dtidrowwell, I ran configure with --enable-optimized, did you do anything else in addition?
19:43.37*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
19:47.16brlcadyup, a slew
19:47.22brlcadbbl
19:52.55SuperTazbrb
20:00.14cadguyMinuteElectron:  I like the faded bar on the top.  Looks cool.  The green background on the left I think is a bit shocking or out of place.  Pick complementary colors?
20:00.55MinuteElectronHmm, I have one person saying the green on the left was bad and another saying that the green at the top (which I removed) was bad. It seams everyone hates green.
20:01.29IriX64i like green reminds me i should commune with nature :)
20:01.29*** join/#brlcad SuperTaz (n=taz@adsl-69-211-3-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)
20:01.31cadguyThe key is there is nothing else in the color scheme which works with the green.
20:01.51MinuteElectronThere isn't? I thought that the gold went well...
20:02.04MinuteElectronAnyway, I need to think of a color to replace the green.
20:02.14SuperTazthere we go
20:02.16cadguyEverything else is softer.  The green stands out as a saturated, in-your-face effect compared to the gradual muted tones elsewhere
20:02.23IriX64ftp://www3.sympatico.ca (nowthisisasystem.png) shot of mine in action :)
20:02.24SuperTazjust added an extra 512 meg stick of RAM
20:02.30SuperTazthat helps a bit :)
20:03.13cadguyDesaturate the green and try it.
20:03.39MinuteElectroncadguy: ok
20:03.43cadguyGo for a slightly more olive look
20:04.12cadguythere's also the blue in the logo that you could work with.
20:05.23cadguyPerhaps the silver-grey of the right side of the eagle's head?  Maybe a brown or a blue?
20:06.25cadguyThe logo already gives a bit of the color scheme, unless you're willing to be modifying the logo somewhat.
20:06.38MinuteElectronlook now
20:07.25cadguyMuch less jarring.  Need to mod the logo so the lower green area is "transparent" and matches the background I suppose.
20:07.37cadguyI like it much better now.
20:07.45MinuteElectronpurge your cache please
20:09.32IriX64forgot the faceplate, look for faceplate.png :)
20:10.20cadguyI'd still mod the green of the logo a little.  Other than that, I think you've got something.  Still need to drop the Tag line at the top?
20:10.42MinuteElectronbrb
20:12.10dtidrowhttp://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2151961,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532 - rofl at reason #1
20:12.47dtidrowah - no wonder it'
20:13.20dtidrowit's so deserted around here - it's "iPhone Day"  ;-)
20:17.48IriX64wheres the uPhone :)
20:22.44MinuteElectroncadguy: removed the tagline and topbar gradient
20:24.08MinuteElectroncadguy: I am not going to edit the logo because I didn't make it. If it is really important I will ask brlcad - he might have the original files.
20:24.11IriX64should break down and understand that mug tutorial, instead of just playinf with the example geometry sigh.
20:24.21IriX64errr playing
20:25.27cadguyMunuteElectron:  Looking good now.
20:25.36MinuteElectroncool
20:25.38MinuteElectronthxs
20:26.07MinuteElectronIf only it didn't break in IE.
20:27.07cadguyThere's a certain poetic justice there
20:27.26IriX64how does it break in ie i just loaded it.
20:27.49MinuteElectronIE6
20:27.59IriX64thats me
20:28.06MinuteElectronhmm, which page are you on?
20:28.06IriX64looks good
20:28.14IriX64the test page
20:28.18MinuteElectronIriX64: do you have a different browseR?
20:28.28IriX64i have firfox too
20:28.33IriX64firefox
20:29.05MinuteElectrontry it in there
20:29.05IriX64just a sec.
20:29.05MinuteElectronit looks completely different.
20:29.08MinuteElectronthen go to the create account page in IE, the yellow bar goes smaller
20:30.30IriX64works here looks just as good :)
20:31.04MinuteElectronhmm
20:31.11MinuteElectronodd
20:31.14MinuteElectronvery odd
20:31.19MinuteElectronwhat screen resolution are you on?
20:31.28IriX64create account, just a sec ill reload ie
20:31.40IriX641024x768
20:32.10MinuteElectronHmm, maybe that is the reason.
20:32.30MinuteElectronI am on 1280x1024
20:32.42MinuteElectronAhh well, if no one else can replicate it I needent worry.
20:33.23IriX64ftp://www3.sympatico.ca   ie.png
20:34.37MinuteElectronI cannot access that server for some reason.
20:35.39MinuteElectronI get a connection failed error.
20:35.44IriX64really?
20:35.46MinuteElectronyeah
20:35.54IriX64i was updating it sorry
20:36.01IriX64try now
20:36.10IriX64same server mapped.png :)
20:37.00MinuteElectronI still can't access it - it asks for a username, then a password then aborts
20:40.19MinuteElectronIriX64: You still there?
20:42.58IriX64anonymous ftp
20:43.19IriX64use any e-mail address i care little
20:43.47IriX64who@who.com:)
20:44.05IriX64waddayoucare@howdareyou.com:)
20:44.12dtidrowdoesn't work here either
20:44.33dtidrowcould be a filter of some sort on the domain, though
20:44.41IriX64what are you using?
20:44.44dtidrowwould commandline ftp work?
20:44.49IriX64should
20:44.54IriX64let me try
20:44.58MinuteElectronI am using WinSCP4
20:46.44dtidrow[dtidrow@localhost ~]$ ftp www3.sympatico.ca
20:46.44dtidrowConnected to www3.sympatico.ca.
20:46.44dtidrow220- Access to the Sympatico Personal Webserver
20:46.44dtidrow220- is only available to Sympatico subscribers
20:46.44dtidrow220-
20:46.45dtidrow220- You must be connected via Bell Sympatico
20:46.47dtidrow421 Service not available, remote server has closed connection
20:46.49dtidrowftp>
20:46.53MinuteElectronsame here
20:47.04IriX64lemme call sympatico, ill be back
21:01.43IriX64sigh they're looking at it sorry
21:02.48MinuteElectrondw
21:04.25IriX64could give you my username and password i guess (*not*) :)
21:06.04MinuteElectron:P
21:08.37IriX64sorry should have asked, do you want it?
21:12.43MinuteElectronwant what?
21:12.52IriX64a dcc of ie.png
21:12.59IriX64dcc send
21:14.03MinuteElectronsure
21:29.39IriX64sending
21:29.53MinuteElectronthanks
21:30.28MinuteElectronIt failed.
21:30.28IriX64i have no idea :)
21:30.35IriX64drat
21:30.51IriX64doh, im behind a wall :)
21:31.03MinuteElectronbah, one sec
21:31.12MinuteElectronIriX64: You have an SCP client?
21:31.20MinuteElectron*SFTP
21:33.51MinuteElectronIriX64: PM -->
21:45.03IriX64alas no
21:45.10IriX64i can mail it to yoy
21:45.13IriX64you
21:57.02IriX64finally a chance to do a make benchmark :)
22:02.51MinuteElectronafk
22:03.22IriX64:)
22:03.44IriX64prefer ask
22:03.46IriX64?
22:03.53IriX64a sad kind :)
22:05.32MinuteElectronback
22:09.08IriX64http://rafb.net/p/AEStPI53.html   <--- benchmark on an opteron
22:27.01IriX64thats an optimized build with compiler optimization enabled too
22:28.56dtidrowhmmmm
22:29.02dtidrowbrlcad: you still around?
22:31.17IriX64he answers "frayed knot" :P
22:33.11IriX64minuteelectron, have you considered the stryker jpg for background on that page?
22:33.21MinuteElectronwhat is that?
22:33.46IriX64look in screen shots and images on http://brlcad.org
22:34.33IriX64it's my current wallpaper
22:34.44MinuteElectronhmm, I personally I don't think background images work very well - I can try but don't hope for much.
22:34.57IriX64your choice :)
22:34.58MinuteElectronAlso I would need it in a much highe resolution.
22:35.12IriX64ill e-mail you one
22:35.13MinuteElectronand also it would much up depending on your resolution.
22:35.18IriX64if you'll permit
22:35.23SuperTazermmm
22:35.24MinuteElectronyeah, ok
22:35.31SuperTazbackground images are bad, mmkay?
22:35.44MinuteElectronbackground images are best if the are a simple repeating pattern.
22:35.50SuperTazNO!
22:35.59SuperTazbackground images are bad
22:36.08MinuteElectronok
22:36.16SuperTazthe ONLY case where they're marginally okay
22:36.32SuperTazis when they're a watermark
22:37.22SuperTazi.e. they're in a static spot on the page and don't repeat
22:37.25SuperTazand are faint
22:37.31IriX64sent
22:37.35SuperTazand even that isn't reliable cross-browser
22:37.38MinuteElectronrecieved
22:37.43IriX64sorry i don't do pages well
22:37.52SuperTazit's okay
22:38.02IriX64thanks
22:38.04SuperTazit's really a question of several elements
22:38.18SuperTazgood design must have the following elements:
22:38.29SuperTaz1) it should be easy to use
22:38.43SuperTaz2) it should incorporate natural usage paradigms
22:38.52SuperTaz3) it should be aesthetically pleasing
22:39.04SuperTaz4) it should make the users feel good
22:39.09SuperTazthat's a good design
22:39.22SuperTazwell
22:39.27IriX64woot ogl came up :)
22:39.42SuperTaz1.5) it should do what the users need it to do
22:40.08MinuteElectronDoes BRL-CAD compile and run on Windows?
22:40.32IriX64depends who you talk too ;)
22:40.52MinuteElectronOh o.O
22:41.37MinuteElectronhow do you mean?
22:42.24SuperTazI think he means "not reliably"
22:42.43IriX64don't put lies in my mouth please :)
22:42.46SuperTazI suspect you could probably get it to work with cygwin and XFree86
22:42.49MinuteElectronOh, ok.
22:43.04IriX64how about X11R6
22:43.07IriX64:)
22:43.07SuperTazbut i haven't tried
22:43.15AchiestDragonwell i can understand the 1 and 2 bit
22:43.35SuperTazXFree86 IS X11R6
22:43.56IriX64adsl you have to remnt :)
22:43.59SuperTazit's a specific distribution and port of X11R6
22:44.02IriX64rent too :)
22:44.09MinuteElectrondsl = damn small linux
22:44.22IriX64pfu=pretty fine unix
22:44.33MinuteElectronit would appear not
22:44.39AchiestDragonthink the best example i can think of is  blender , it takes a while to learn how to use the gui , against  well the 3d editor in autotrax that you can pickup on in minuts
22:45.13MinuteElectronHow many GBs is BRL-CAD uncompiled?
22:45.38IriX64whos brlcad?
22:45.42AchiestDragon28Gb on the source download but that compressed
22:45.51MinuteElectronwtf?
22:45.52AchiestDragonmb not gb
22:45.54dtidrowMB, you mean
22:45.55MinuteElectronHoly crap.
22:46.05MinuteElectronoh 28MB
22:46.08MinuteElectronthat is not much
22:46.19MinuteElectronI was expecting something like 5GBs.
22:46.23IriX64it is when you're waiting for the transfer
22:46.38IriX64use cvs much better
22:46.40dtidrowand about 176MB unpacked
22:46.49AchiestDragondepends how you look at it , i remeber working on systems when 4k was alot of ram
22:46.50MinuteElectronhmm, cool
22:47.18IriX64my s-100 had a whopping 64K
22:47.58AchiestDragonmy nascom1 had 1k and the pdp8 i had had 4k
22:48.24IriX64how much did the sinclair have?
22:48.25SuperTazI remember when your program had to fit in 4k...
22:48.43IriX64brlcad wouldn't do well there :)
22:48.44SuperTaz...and just how much people could do with 4k back then.
22:48.53AchiestDragon1k  on the  zx80 and zx81 the spectrum had 16 or 48k
22:48.59IriX64then microsoft came along :P
22:49.17dtidrowand massively fscked everything up....
22:49.44IriX64look at it this way you get much more bytes for your money now :P
22:50.24AchiestDragoni tend to do programming in asm and i used a lot of microcontrolers with 1 to 8k of ram doing quite a lot for the ram size , if i programed the same in c i would be looking at needing a chip with more than 4 times the ram
22:51.11IriX64not if you have a good optimizing compiler
22:51.23IriX64and you can do asm in c
22:52.24IriX64ahh optimize for size instead of speed :)
22:52.40SuperTazyou can make scrambled eggs in a blender
22:52.52SuperTazdoes that mean it's a good idea/
22:52.52SuperTaz?
22:53.03IriX64it's all experience
22:53.16AchiestDragonyes but some code even optimized is not as quick as if you wrote the same task in native asm
22:53.18SuperTazif you're trying to work in 1-4k, C is probably not the language you REALLY want
22:53.43IriX64i know i'm just yanking your chain and it's working :)
22:54.01SuperTazwith microcontrollers, you often want ASM, or architecture-specific development tools
22:54.27IriX64see above, back to testing this thing :)
22:54.35AchiestDragonlike    r=a+b   then call function if r=1   usualy leads to some complex c maths lib call rather than a add forlowed by a call on condition
22:55.56MinuteElectronlol, my code had no validity errors whatsoever (except 5 irrelevant css warnings) - I am amazed.
22:56.32AchiestDragonmost of the asm tools are avalabe  free  for most micros , the c compilers though are usualy 3rd party but gcc will do most
22:56.41MinuteElectronOh dear, goodnight.
23:02.18AchiestDragonit was not so mutch having limited ram space that was a problem but the total lack of having any sutable storage for swap space , using papertape as swap space just does not work
23:03.03IriX64http://rafb.net/p/vG1mWq75.html <--- if i can't show you the pretty pictures at least I can show you this much :)
23:03.46IriX64does if you feed the output of the punch to the input of the reader :)
23:04.53AchiestDragonwell not realy , that way ends up with a fifo ,,
23:05.09IriX64heh just speculating
23:05.26IriX64works quite well for testing a model 28
23:05.34IriX64or 35 and up
23:05.53AchiestDragonand you end up with miles of used papertape
23:06.22IriX64sometimes necessary and they didn't recycle back then either, mores the pity
23:06.58IriX64sometimes intermittent clutches were hard to find
23:07.20IriX64break time
23:09.03AchiestDragonat one time the souce would come on papertape  with brlcad having 176mb in the source that would take 120,000 miles of  papertape for the pdp8 i had
23:09.16dtidrowheh
23:12.37AchiestDragonand take 54 days to read in on a asr33 teletype
23:13.20AchiestDragonTimeout on server
23:13.21AchiestDragonConnection was to 82.7.33.28 at port 80
23:13.21SuperTazI think he took it down when he went offline
23:15.41brlcadyeah, figured.. thanks
23:28.38IriX64I can't get there either
23:30.48IriX64hah a 1024 frame buffer
23:30.53IriX64:)
23:32.47IriX64and bonus it works, cyall l8r
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070630

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070630

00:11.30*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
00:12.31thing0hey all
00:32.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca)
00:55.26IriX64http://rafb.net/p/lsyiB710.html  <---- a useless snippet of how my compile is going :)
01:01.02IriX64http://rafb.net/p/noX0mO67.html  <--- something i'll have to fix, you should too
01:02.03IriX64there are 5 more in qray.c too, interested?
01:02.14*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:02.40IriX64and vdraw.c
01:04.29IriX64http://rafb.net/p/cc4gGp46.html  <--- these
01:05.57thing1bacl
01:05.59thing1*back
01:16.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:26.18IriX64is Cygwin a viable platform to run brlcad on :P
01:26.54*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:28.34IriX64if your browser allows it take a peek at http://irix32.spaces.live.com (2 albumns there)
01:42.24AchiestDragonno problems uing konquror to access that site
01:47.45AchiestDragonbut firefox definatly does not like it
01:48.57AchiestDragonmsn messing arround with xml so firefox fails i bet
01:52.58AchiestDragonhttp://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Firix32.spaces.live.com%2F
01:56.54*** join/#brlcad cad80 (n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz)
01:57.21AchiestDragonand by the errors it looks that way eather that or msn canot write web pages ,, actualy looks a bit like starting a perl script with the first line in it beeing !python
01:57.43*** join/#brlcad cad17 (n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:03.07*** join/#brlcad cad17 (n=51b37888@bz.bzflag.bz)
02:03.14*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
02:03.16IriX64no idea whats up take it up with microsoft it's their script :)
02:03.30IriX64neat the way it works tho
02:03.37IriX64to update i mean
02:04.31IriX64opera loads it fine (they missed a couple :P)
02:05.06IriX64windows firefox also loads it go figure
02:05.20AchiestDragonwell i find i dont have problems with  konquror 99% of the time where with firefox its  75% of the time , i dont use ie unless nothing else works
02:05.43IriX64i use first one that works :)
02:06.13IriX64anybody got an old copy of netscape?
02:06.20AchiestDragoni use konquror as my default browser and prefer it
02:06.44IriX64I don't browse much anyway
02:07.38AchiestDragonwhat version of netscape , and what os , think i have a few versions of it arround someware
02:07.59IriX64dos netscapev1.0a
02:08.05IriX64:)
02:08.11AchiestDragon:)
02:08.34IriX64i actually do have trumpet around here somewhere
02:09.03AchiestDragondont have that , have a beta of the first linux version of it on a disk someware though
02:09.37IriX64someware i like it i'll call anything i develop someware from someware labs :)
02:11.10AchiestDragonsince moving i have managed to misplace a large portion of my old cd's still have to get them sorted out , probablay still at the ex's
02:11.57IriX64i've gotta play cable swap one day and install my 5.25" drive and recover a lot of stuff and burn it to cd
02:12.17IriX64silly asus left the b drive out of their bios
02:12.33thing1hehe
02:12.58IriX64the a drive supports 5.25 tho kudos to them
02:13.52thing1:)
02:14.01IriX64I know microsoft didn't take out 5.25 support, if they did i'll put it back ;)
02:14.13thing1hehe
02:14.19AchiestDragoni only have 2 machines with a 3.5" floppy left in them , but not used a flopy in the last 2 years
02:14.50IriX64still uses for them i.e sneakernet when bringing a new system up
02:15.10AchiestDragonand mostly now its transfering cd data to dvd's
02:15.35AchiestDragonho for optical cube drives
02:15.40IriX64thats something I don't have yet (read children get it first)
02:17.14AchiestDragonwell for the cost when i put a system together may as well put a dvdr in it rather than a cdr  theres verry little cost diference now
02:17.49AchiestDragonand for backup  well 4Gb beats  700mb  per disk
02:17.49IriX64true but i wish dvd's could read cd's
02:17.58IriX64yes
02:18.39AchiestDragonthe dvdw drives do cd, cdr , cdrw ,dvd , dvdr and dvdrw
02:19.00IriX64how pricey?
02:19.04AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
02:19.37AchiestDragonlike £30 for a good one  and as low as £18 for a cheap one
02:19.55AchiestDragona cdrw is about £10 to £20
02:19.57*** part/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
02:20.05AchiestDragonGBP
02:20.21IriX64mult by 2 for here then?
02:22.04AchiestDragonhttp://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=571850
02:22.56AchiestDragonthat place nolonger sells cd only drives
02:26.05IriX64how do they handle shipping to the "colonies" :)
02:26.26IriX64i'm a little slow to cut and paste unix style
02:26.55IriX64suppose i could just read this page :)
02:27.53IriX64they sure have a selection
02:28.46IriX64ahh well one day I too will have a dvdrw
02:30.02AchiestDragonif you make a sails support queary they should be able to give you info about postage , i know ther will be no vat to pay on exports but you may have inport tax
02:30.25IriX64and maybe duty?
02:31.17AchiestDragoninport tax / duty  yes , depends on your local rouls on that
02:31.52IriX64I'll try local first but thanks for the site
02:32.46AchiestDragonthe stink we get here when inporting goods is the carriers chage a £40 fixed rate for processing inport tax , even if theres only £10 of tax  
02:33.01*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
02:33.06*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-252-34.dyn.iinet.net.au)
02:33.53IriX64same you have to go through a imort agent here depending where it's from
02:34.01IriX64err import
02:34.02AchiestDragonso £100 about $200usd product including shipping gets to be £157 that makes it more like $300usd
02:34.18IriX64i see
02:35.27AchiestDragonit only starts to work out better when you oder goods of over £1000 that sort of hides the £40 charge
02:36.01IriX64mmmm i still would have a heart attack :)
02:39.02IriX64I *do so like my stryker wallpaper, thankyou aberdeen :)
02:39.56IriX64theres a shot of my desktop with that wallpaper on the Irix32 site brlcad albumn i think
02:40.53AchiestDragontry   http://www.achiestdragon.org4/index.php?title=Image:Splat.jpg&oldid=128  
02:41.19IriX64IriX32 is only half of me, IriX64 is the whole of me, just like 42 is only half the answer the whole answer is 84
02:41.37AchiestDragonit gives a nice optical illusion as you move eather towards or away from the screen
02:43.55AchiestDragoni did that with the gimp and kriter
02:46.12IriX64the page cannot be displayed :(
02:46.36AchiestDragontry   http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Splat.jpg&oldid=128    opps link wrong
02:48.00IriX64what is that? what is that? (I call it the colorfull vortex of the mind :))
02:48.49AchiestDragonyes , it was and attempt to get an image that looked something like the stress pattens when you press on a lcd screen
02:50.06AchiestDragoni only did it at 1600*1200 though
02:56.58IriX64you did a good job are you an artist?
02:57.08AchiestDragoni call it splat i was just experimenting with the effect filters
02:57.22IriX64with gimp?
02:57.40AchiestDragoni do some art when im in the mood but not as a main pastime
02:58.06AchiestDragonthe gimp its the gnome art program , and kritter is the kde one
02:58.41AchiestDragoni was doing some beta testing on kritter when i did that one
02:59.13IriX64http://rafb.net/p/hkEbpg81.html  <--- here's what i just built :)
03:00.07IriX64hah and it actully works
03:00.23AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
03:00.47IriX64just a sec trying this thing out
03:00.55AchiestDragonk
03:02.27IriX64what do you mean i can upload it? :)
03:03.16IriX64lets wreak some havoc :P
03:04.44IriX64tiniest frame buffer i ever saw chortle
03:05.14IriX64haha it actually fit it in there
03:05.37IriX64would you like me to e-mail you the picture?
03:06.29AchiestDragonme ?
03:06.42IriX64wait i'll put it on irix32
03:08.19*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096667976.dsl.bell.ca)
03:08.44IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos the brlcad pix 1st pix is this new build
03:13.02IriX64would anybody mind if i switch to mirc it's so much easier to just double click a url than this cut and paste stuff?
03:13.32*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca)
03:14.09louipcIriX64: what were you using before?
03:14.54IriX64irssi
03:15.06louipcnice
03:15.17IriX64very just not used to it
03:16.42IriX64back to playing with brlcad (I'll learn how to use it eventually, the concept of drawing with algebra is foreign to me)
03:21.30IriX64ive got that irssi package for windows on my ftp server, now if only sympatico would get their act in gear and enable anonymous logins :)
03:26.16IriX64windowsirssi.zip i wonder if anybody would actually want it, oh well it's there
03:29.45louipcmaybe linux users that have to use windows at work or something
03:30.18louipcwhat does sympatico have to do with anon logins?
03:30.33louipcoh they're hosting the server huh?
03:30.58IriX64they let me have a spot :)
03:31.36IriX64try the irix32 site, brlcad albumn proving to myself rot 45 45 45 still works
03:32.37louipcI can't view that page. it uses non-standard XML and my browser is very picky about it
03:32.57IriX64where can i upload or e-mail to you?
03:33.49IriX64break time
03:38.56*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613910.dsl.bell.ca)
03:47.51IriX64should scare you and login with opera :P
03:49.08IriX64AchiestDragon may I upload something to that link?
03:49.56AchiestDragonon  http://www.achiestdragon.org  ?
03:50.07IriX64no the plant link
03:50.35IriX64No file by this name exists, you can upload it.
03:50.46IriX64from your url
03:52.34IriX64does it have to be a picture i could let you have windowsirssi.zip.
03:53.09AchiestDragonits a wiki its part of the my site www.achiestdragon.org if you go to upload file then yes but you need to be loged in to do that
03:53.21AchiestDragonits set for zip and pdf files also
03:53.32*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669395.dsl.bell.ca)
03:53.39IriX64do you want/need irssi.zip?
03:54.11AchiestDragonnot realy
03:54.59IriX64something tells me i stepped in it, sorry.
03:55.14AchiestDragonnp
03:55.37IriX64must I call you Mr./Mam :P
03:56.15AchiestDragondid the plant pic show ok ?
03:56.28IriX64really there was no pic
03:56.30louipcsomething is really messed up I keep on timing out
03:57.33AchiestDragonhttp://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Plant.jpg&oldid=125
03:58.02AchiestDragonit shows here and its a local connecton to the server here , refreshes ok
03:58.09IriX64louipc try an alternate server
03:58.23IriX64nice and i like the crocodile
03:58.39IriX64is that a collar round it's neck
03:59.46AchiestDragonbest viewed at 100% zoom on the original theres a lot of stuff in the details like the plant roots  
04:00.36IriX64i see a lot of things, baby crocs for example :)
04:03.02IriX64pleasure by the way
04:03.15AchiestDragoni did quite a few pics trying stuff out , but the mouse is not the best input device for it , im more used to doing pencil schetches , realy need a good graphics tablet but at over £400 for a hafl decent one its a bit mutch to concidder for someting that only gets occasional use
04:04.05IriX64true consider a light pen device though
04:05.00AchiestDragonwell i realy need one for cad applications also
04:05.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (nirt.c qray.c vdraw.c): NULL != 0, quell warnings
04:05.38IriX64ahh i like the maestro in the clouds in the background complete with baton :)
04:06.21IriX64how long did that take you?
04:06.35IriX64to draw i mean
04:07.08AchiestDragonthat took 2 days and did about 12hrs a day
04:07.24IriX64ouch long hours but looks worth the effort
04:07.57*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1128544066.dsl.bell.ca)
04:08.36IriX64whoop +2 (chortle)
04:09.20AchiestDragonwell when i split with the ex i was back at my parents for a while , so had lots of time and not mutch that i could fill it with
04:10.06IriX64you talent shows man .
04:10.18brlcadAchiestDragon: interesting image ..
04:12.23brlcadIriX64: thanks for pointing out the warnings
04:12.35brlcadthough... you could have probably fixed those and provided a patch ;)
04:12.35IriX64nice wiggler, caught much with it ?
04:12.49AchiestDragonlol
04:12.49brlcadno, it was harmless, but might as well clean it up
04:12.57AchiestDragonits for jtag programming
04:13.05AchiestDragonand debug
04:13.14brlcads/debug/background/
04:13.27AchiestDragonty
04:13.32IriX64its your freakin picture :)
04:18.07IriX64brlcad: i can't sew ergo no patches from me :)
04:19.21brlcadyou could make a patch if you wanted
04:19.27brlcadcvs will do it for you
04:20.06brlcadyou edit a file from a cvs checkout, then run "cvs diff -u filename.c > filename.patch"
04:20.12IriX64don't know cvs that well, but i must admit i'm curious as to how thats done
04:20.16brlcadthat will create a patch file named filename.patch
04:20.34IriX64interesting
04:20.36brlcadgive it a try, edit some random file, run cvs diff -u
04:20.56brlcada patch is just a simple text file saying what it was before and after
04:20.57IriX64have to be logged in first right
04:21.09IriX64in proper dir
04:21.38IriX64i don't play with cvs much just update and go
04:24.54AchiestDragon6am time for a nap , nn
04:26.16brlcadIriX64: you only log in once
04:26.20brlcadAchiestDragon: cya!
04:27.04brlcadSuperTaz: good comments on the website.. :)
04:35.56IriX64tried to do midnight commander for windows, failed miserably, it's too entrenched in the unix file hierarchy
04:36.08IriX64sp
04:38.05IriX64http://rafb.net/p/hjPt7o36.html <--- this tho is doable, I don't have the support files yet though
04:41.26IriX64should do a dump specs .
04:44.55*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754550.dsl.bell.ca)
04:45.17IriX64retrieving my patches :P
04:58.19*** join/#brlcad louipc_ (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088754183.dsl.bell.ca)
05:08.52*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177614201.dsl.bell.ca)
05:26.29IriX64any pictures done by brl-cad of the space station? I'd love to have that for wallpaper
05:27.09brlcadIriX64: not that I'm aware of
05:27.51brlcadthe only space model I'm aware of actually is the one of the hubble space telescope
05:28.13IriX64guess i'll have to visit nasa or jet propulsion labs again :)
05:28.35IriX64I saw the hubble and have it i prefer the station
05:31.44IriX64suppose i could read the docs but it's easier to ask someone who knows, I've never run the test suite, just what does it do (remembering that the fastest way to get something acomplished is to give it to a lazy slob to do) :)
05:41.41brlcadit runs a bunch of integration tests
05:41.57brlcadmakes sure some of the basic tools work as expected
05:42.07brlcadit's not a big deal to run it, give it a got
05:42.10brlcads/got/go/
05:54.05IriX64I will soons it finishes building again
06:27.33IriX64asc2g running must be almost done
06:29.16IriX64it's installing roughly how long should make test take?
06:29.37brlcadonly takes a couple minutes
06:29.46IriX64ok
06:29.52brlcaddtidrow_work: my configure line earlier today was:  ./configure --enable-optimized CFLAGS=-falign-loops=16 -falign-jumps=16 -falign-functions=16 -falign-jumps-max-skip=15 -falign-loops-max-skip=15 -malign-natural -ffast-math -fr
06:29.56brlcadeorder-blocks -freorder-blocks-and-partition -mtune=pentium4
06:30.04brlcadof course, quoting the CFLAGS var
06:30.52IriX64heh all i use is --enable-optimize --enable-optimizations
06:31.12brlcadthose two do the same thing
06:31.19IriX64compiler uses -msse and -msse2
06:31.39brlcadit autodetects and uses it if it works
06:31.44IriX64yes
06:32.09brlcadonly matters in the new nurbs/brep code
06:32.41IriX64i've never compared numbers before, was just curious what make benchmark did :)
06:45.39IriX64oh man quarter of three
06:49.13IriX64well i typed it
06:50.06IriX64heh interesting
06:51.54IriX64http://rafb.net/p/yyS2PR59.html  <---- there you go
06:52.34IriX64bedtime nite
06:57.25brlcadagain, "success" pastings aren't useful .. i know *exactly* what it looks like as I see it over and over and over and ....
06:57.37brlcadbut I'm glad you got it working, and succeeded
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07:28.14MinuteElectronbrlcad: Didin't catch you yesterday fully, since you have got the final decision: What do you think of the website I made, does it need improving and what shall I do now? http://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
07:31.31MinuteElectronI really don't mind if you think it is complete crap, it will help me refine my ideas.
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07:37.30thing0hey
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08:28.12brlcadMinuteElectron: I really like it, but think it does still need more too
08:28.29MinuteElectronYeah, could you give me an idea as to what?
08:28.54brlcadi came back several hours ago looking forward to seeing the site.. I suppose you're running the web server off of a desktop/laptop that you shut off? :)
08:29.20MinuteElectronYeah, sorry about that - it is currently running on this machine.
08:29.29MinuteElectronI shut it down for the night.
08:29.42brlcadfigured as much :)
08:31.23MinuteElectronSo, any ideas?
08:35.21brlcadyeah, I think the layout is what I'm having trouble with at the moment .. it's a blend of two or three styles, and the mix is making it quirky
08:35.36brlcadtell me which of these did you really like best?
08:35.43brlcadhttp://meta.theme.drupaler.net/about
08:35.53brlcadhttp://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.giannimania.it/zengarden/sample.css
08:36.17brlcadhttp://haiku-os.org/
08:36.45brlcadthat's it, of those
08:37.31brlcadnot the graphics or colors per-se, but the layout and structural elements
08:38.15MinuteElectronI think the first one.
08:38.58brlcadthat one is also nearly identical (structurally) to haiku's
08:39.30MinuteElectronyeah
08:39.37brlcadthey both have a "top title area" with an embedded menu
08:40.02MinuteElectronhmm, let me try something.
08:40.07brlcadseparate panels and navigation areas
08:42.33MinuteElectronCan you give me the link to that page of logos again please.
08:42.45brlcadI can work up the artwork for that title area if you want, that might help
08:43.00MinuteElectronyeah
08:43.02brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/~sean/websites.html
08:43.27MinuteElectronI meant the actual logos.
08:43.36MinuteElectronI only have the 256x212 one
08:43.38brlcadooh, the logo dir
08:43.42brlcadsure
08:44.01brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/images/logo/
08:44.05MinuteElectronthanks
08:45.03MinuteElectronSo you are going to make artwork?
08:45.19brlcadsure I can do that
08:45.27MinuteElectronwhat will it look like?
08:45.40brlcadyou tell me
08:46.05brlcadusing http://meta.theme.drupaler.net/about and http://haiku-os.org/ as example drivers -- their main difference is tone
08:47.07brlcadbold/strong vs subtle/soft
08:47.14MinuteElectronhmm
08:47.52brlcadI can make artwork for either, but the design is in your hands as to what you need
08:48.08MinuteElectronhaiku is probably the best IMO
08:48.37brlcadthey use drupal too, btw
08:48.43MinuteElectroncool
08:49.01MinuteElectronyou could make it use the logo on the far right, with BLR-CAD beside it, and underneath BRL-CAD put the tagline
08:49.05brlcadthough they've almost entirely hidden that fact on the website
08:49.24MinuteElectronhehe
08:49.59brlcadtheir image screenshots are actually a perfect integration of Gallery (e.g. http://haiku-os.org/about/faq)
08:52.47brlcadso for the top area, titlebar running across the top ..
08:53.12MinuteElectronyeah
08:53.41MinuteElectronit should probably be sandwhiched against the top, left and right of the page (no whitespace).
08:53.50brlcaddid you want it to be wrapped like meta or take up the entire area like haiku
08:53.59brlcadokay
08:54.18MinuteElectronhehe
08:55.01brlcadwhich quadrant for the menu, which for the title?
08:55.50brlcadmeta used top left and bottom left respectively, for example - haiku uses bottom right and center left
08:57.16MinuteElectronI guess title would be top left, the navigation could be either bottom right or bottom left. if the navigation was botom right then the title would then have to be middle left
08:57.30MinuteElectronbut that would probably look to much like haiku
08:58.02brlcaddon't worry about looking like them, more important to be effective
08:58.35MinuteElectronok, then center left and bottom right, alternatively top left and bottom left.
08:59.01MinuteElectronif you are doing bottom right then the image has to be somehow adaptable so it looks ok in all resolutions (like the one on haiku)
08:59.59brlcadokay, last detail is whether content area is going to be dark on light or light on dark
09:00.36brlcadas it affects title area color selection
09:00.43MinuteElectronI think light on dark since (from what I have seen of the screenshots) BRL-CAD appears to use darker colors.
09:01.36brlcadthat alone will make it look drastically different than haiku's, so more reason to not worry about it being structurally similar :)
09:01.46MinuteElectron:D
09:02.25brlcadthat's also "kind of" the approach taken on http://blender.org too
09:08.49MinuteElectronbrlcad: You are incorporating the navigation into your artwork right?
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09:09.50brlcadMinuteElectron: as a mock-up layer
09:09.56MinuteElectronok
09:10.03brlcadhow that translates to css will probably be pretty different
09:24.30brlcadalrighty, this is going to take me a while and I need to rest my hands and eyes a bit before I get too deep :)
09:24.42MinuteElectronok
09:24.46brlcadshould have something later today hopefully
09:25.27MinuteElectroncool, can i just ask quickly, where is the visual studio project in cvs/
09:25.56brlcadfor your layout, I'll probably have four elements so you can prepare the css  -- the title itself, the left background, the right background, and the menu area
09:26.05brlcadMinuteElectron: it's in misc/
09:26.08MinuteElectronok
09:26.17brlcadthere are actually two
09:26.41brlcada vc6 project that does a splendid job of building the libraries
09:27.13brlcadand a vc7 project that doesn't do as well, but does build about 30 of the binaries one generally needs/wants/expects
09:27.23brlcadincluding the modeller
09:27.23MinuteElectronok
09:27.26MinuteElectroncool
09:27.28MinuteElectronthe left and right backgrounds are for just the navigation right?
09:27.34brlcadso unless you're writing code, you'll probably want the vc7
09:27.48brlcadleft and right backgrounds are so you can make it expanding
09:28.15MinuteElectronyeah, but just for the nav right?
09:28.31MinuteElectron*header
09:28.33brlcadright
09:28.37MinuteElectroncool
09:29.51MinuteElectronbrlcad: will the menu area be left or right aligned?
09:30.04brlcadthanks again for working on this, it's going to be awesome
09:30.11brlcadyou'd said bottom left
09:30.16MinuteElectronok, :D
09:32.00brlcadmm.. I need a godel escher bach style cube for C, A, D .. that'd make a great download icon
09:32.42MinuteElectronare you incorporating the tagline into the header?
09:33.18brlcadhave to see, there's another tagline that is often used too
09:33.33MinuteElectronok, but will one be incorporated at least?
09:33.44brlcadyeah, something
09:33.50MinuteElectronok
09:33.51MinuteElectroncool
09:38.10MinuteElectronbrlcad: I presume that a sidebar will still be needed.
09:39.25brlcadyeah, probably just have different content
09:39.33MinuteElectronyeah
09:44.48MinuteElectronbrlcad: There is the issue of tabs, they can either go in a similar place that I put them before (near the page title) or somewhere else (perhaps in the sidebar).
09:53.13MinuteElectronbrlcad: Do you have any idea when I will be able to upload Drupal and MediaWiki onto the server you have? At this point it would be quite useful as settings now have to be set in Drupal so it would be useful to not have to set them twice.
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11:13.54thing0hey
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13:05.42MinuteElectronbrlcad: got a spare moment?
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16:40.00dtidrowanybody awake?
16:40.24pooliomaybe :P
16:40.29dtidrowheh
16:40.51dtidrowany idea what the '.hidden' means in this line?
16:41.00dtidrow00040f40 l     F .text  0000004c              .hidden TkStatePrintProc
16:41.14poolioah asm
16:41.33dtidrowno, that's from an objdump output
16:42.54dtidrow../../src/libtclcad/.libs/libtclcad.so: undefined reference to `TkStatePrintProc' - that's an error I'm getting in a brlcad build, even though the function seems to exist in libtk8.5
16:43.29dtidrowso I'm guessing that '.hidden' is keeping the linker from seeing it
16:44.02brlcadhrm, possibly means it was declared static?
16:44.16dtidrownot from what I see in the .c file
16:44.35dtidrowunless there's something in one of the header files it uses
16:45.00dtidrowchar *
16:45.01dtidrowTkStatePrintProc(
16:45.01dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.01dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.01dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.01dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.03dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.05dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.07dtidrow<PROTECTED>
16:45.09dtidrow{
16:45.36brlcadwhere's that from?
16:45.55brlcadtkCanvBezier or tk sources?
16:46.08dtidrow./generic/tkInt.h:1146:MODULE_SCOPE char *      TkStatePrintProc(ClientData clientData, - aha, that 'MODULE_SCOPE' must be doing it...
16:46.13dtidrowtk
16:46.25dtidrowgeneric/tkUtil.c
16:46.31brlcadwhat version are you on?  tkCanvBezier is disabled on cvs head
16:46.46dtidrowhmmm
16:46.55dtidrowI dl'ed the latest tarball
16:46.58brlcadin the process of removing it
16:47.00brlcadahh, okay
16:47.18dtidrowthey're removing it?
16:47.34brlcadno, I"m in the process of removing it
16:47.39brlcadit's been a headache for years
16:47.39dtidrowheh
16:48.26dtidrowwhat version are you on?  tkCanvBezier is disabled on cvs head - referring to brlcad or tk?
16:48.29brlcadjohn anderson implemented a bezier canvas for the 2D bezier line drawings in the sketch editor
16:49.12brlcadthat tkCanvBezier was originally a direct enhancement to tk (meaning we had to ship a customized tk), but was later pulled out so that we could try to link against system tk libraries
16:49.27brlcad7.10.1 is cvs head
16:49.31dtidrowah
16:50.22brlcadeven after tkCanvBezier was pulled out of Tk, though, it still needs Tk internals, private structures that you don't have access to from a system-installed Tk (i.e. that MODULE_SCOPE changes after installation)
16:50.22dtidrowI was experimenting with some additional optimizations yesterday, and kept stumbling over compile failures or other problems
16:50.58dtidrowwell, I was building tk8.5 from tarballs, so that's not a problem to change
16:51.08dtidrowand tcl, for that matter
16:51.30brlcadthat's actually the only thing holding up release -- to use a different bezier line drawing approach
16:52.43dtidrowI was also getting a problem in ifftc nevewr terminating during the build, chewing up all the available disk
16:53.21dtidrowjust from experimenting with various optimization flags  :-\
16:53.40brlcadheh
16:54.04brlcadthose can be *really* massive functions
16:54.29dtidrowseveral gig text files????
16:55.07brlcadoh, running ifftc itself didn't terminate?
16:55.27brlcador compiling the files it generates didn't
16:55.44dtidrowifftc itself didn't terminate
16:56.06dtidrow./configure --enable-optimized --with-opengl --with-cflags="-march=nocona -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double -mrtd -msseregparm"
16:56.24dtidrowthink that's what caused it
16:57.25dtidrow-march=nocona could have been hosing things, I suppose
16:58.11dtidrowis there an -march=core yet?
16:59.14brlcadhm, I get cc1: error: invalid option 'sseregparm', if I remove that one, ifftc crashes with a bad instruction
16:59.41brlcadah, -mrtd caused the bad instruction
16:59.48dtidrowah
17:00.18brlcadhm, otherwise worked clean with CFLAGS="-march=nocona -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double"
17:00.29dtidrowwas just experimenting with various options  :-)
17:00.33dtidrowk, will try that
17:00.56brlcadlibfft is a fun lib to play with since it generates the source files
17:01.24brlcadfourier transform kernels of various specified sizes
17:01.46brlcadhaving it go to 512 or *gasp* 1024 is really interesting to see how various compilers behave
17:02.32dtidrowthought it looked a little funky  ;-)
17:02.34brlcadcan seriously slow down a compile
17:03.47brlcadwc gives:    6255   32387  172439 irfft512.c
17:03.48dtidrowarg - my little one is getting into all kinds of trouble now
17:11.39dtidrowcan't imagine what it would be like to build brlcad on an old 11/780....
17:12.08dtidrowprobably would take most of a week
17:12.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/Makefile.am: support convolution kernels up to 1024, but still only compile those up to 256 by default since optimization can be .. intense .. on the larger sizes
17:13.47dtidrowsweet - the latest version of gcc has -march=core2
17:21.08dtidrowargh!
17:21.26dtidrow/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc  -march=pentium-m -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o ssampview  ssampview-spectrum.o ssampview-ssampview.o ../../src/liboptical/liboptical.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm ../../src/libfb/libfb.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../sr
17:21.26dtidrowc/libpkg/libpkg.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lGL ../../src/librt/librt.la -lc -lm ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la ../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libbn/libbn.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lm ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm -lm -lc -lpthread
17:21.31dtidrow../../src/libpkg/libpkg.la  ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la  -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -lXss -lXext -lX11 -lX11 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl8.5 -ldl -lm
17:21.34dtidrow/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/libtk8.5.a(tkStubLib.o): In function `Tk_InitStubs':
17:21.36dtidrow/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkStubLib.c:102: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr'
17:21.39dtidrow/home/dtidrow/src/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/../generic/tkStubLib.c:109: undefined reference to `tclStubsPtr'
17:21.42dtidrowcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
17:21.50dtidrowoops, grabbed one too many lines
17:22.59dtidrowfook it, gonna unpack the tarball and try again
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17:25.42MinuteElectronbrlcad: How's it going?
17:59.54IriX64dtidrow: undefined reference to tclstubsptr? was a proper tclstubs library found at configure time?
18:02.59dtidrowI thought I told it to build the tcl/tk version that comes with brlcad...
18:03.13IriX64should find it then
18:03.32dtidrowyes, it 'should'....
18:03.37IriX64i installed tcl/tk 8.5a6 , seems to work
18:04.09dtidrowwith 7.10.0, or cvs HEAD?
18:04.14IriX64cvs
18:04.52dtidrowah - there are some fixes in there that aren't in 7.10.0, according to brlcad
18:05.04IriX64explains it :)
18:05.43dtidrowI could have a leftover lib hiding somewhere from tcl/tk-8.5a6....
18:05.58IriX64reminds me, i should get the latest update
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18:07.00dtidrowaha - it was apparently still pulling in /usr/local/lib/libtcl8.5.so
18:07.28dtidrowdone  :-)
18:07.41IriX64heh good shooting :)
18:08.09dtidrownow to see if the extra optimization options helped at all...
18:08.24IriX64what are you trying for, speed?
18:09.28dtidrowyeah, just as a test of the h/w
18:09.34IriX64ah
18:10.05IriX64i'll march this one as opteron then :)
18:10.40dtidrowgcc 4.2 has core2 as an march option now
18:11.00IriX64i'll try it
18:11.19IriX64maybe ill try core4 :P
18:12.42dtidrowgotta go, wife wants to do some shopping - bbl...
18:12.48IriX64cya
18:14.15IriX64http://rafb.net/p/mZznOG69.html  <---last nights effort, love seeing that little bit of info :)
18:17.54dtidrowBenchmark results indicate an approximate VGR performance metric of 6244
18:18.30dtidrowLogarithmic VGR metric is 3.80  (natural logarithm is 8.74)
18:18.30dtidrowthat's a nice bump  :-)
18:18.31IriX64hot, very hot, better put another heatsink on :)
18:27.16IriX64howd you compile that so fast :)
18:28.12IriX64errr 30
18:35.19IriX64on the bright side ./configure only takes 6 minutes :)
18:44.16IriX64ftp://www3.sympatico.ca allows *me to login anonymously, would appreciate somebody trying it.
18:51.20IriX64use a browser
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19:04.31IriX64works for me, i'm happy :)
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19:25.03IriX64haha my command line ftp client can't even find it :)
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19:26.00IriX64anybody have Konqueror? does it work?
19:28.15IriX64so much for work lets return to the fun stuff, brlcad is building
19:29.12IriX64err brl-cad :)
19:29.22MinuteElectronHmm, does it matter what Linux distribution you are running to compile brl-cad?
19:29.45IriX64ask those who wrote it
19:30.01MinuteElectronIriX64: What version are you using?
19:30.06IriX64cvs
19:30.13MinuteElectronOf Linux
19:30.23IriX64just updated about 45 mins ago
19:30.34IriX64who says i'm using linux
19:30.46MinuteElectronSorry, okay.
19:30.54IriX64but i have redhat 5.1
19:31.05MinuteElectronok, :D
19:31.19IriX64:)
19:31.28MinuteElectronI will try using Ubuntu - but first to install my wi-box on Ubuntu (or at least try).
19:31.42IriX64was just going to ask
19:32.03IriX64should get a leopard system :)
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19:35.40IriX64Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...      <-----gotta get this part working
19:39.41IriX64AchiestDragon, have you considered a digitizer?
19:54.27brlcadgah, missed him again
20:12.51IriX64what's thew most common image format (meaning easiest to view) for *nix systems, can you handle png's easily?
20:28.56IriX64ahh well a jpg of my desktop (stryker.jpg) on ftp://www3.sympatico.ca   (what i affectionatly call "my spot")
20:32.30dtidrowarg - still broken  :-(
20:32.38IriX64still?
20:32.45IriX64symptom?
20:32.48dtidrownothing's happening
20:32.57IriX64did it prompt?
20:33.23dtidrownope
20:33.30IriX64did it connect?
20:34.01poolioIriX64: just post them to imageshack.us or something
20:34.14IriX64gotta get this working
20:34.30IriX64what client (remebering i said to use a browser)
20:34.49dtidrowfirefox 1.5.x
20:35.04IriX64so answer did it connect?
20:35.27IriX64wait i have a firefox here
20:35.28dtidrowit says at the bottom of the window: "Beginning FTP transaction..."
20:38.11IriX64should say connected to www3.sympatico.ca and an box should come up asking for username and password
20:39.35IriX64still broken, ill call didn't let me in anonymously thanks dtidrow
20:39.52dtidrowk - there was no box either
20:39.52*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-235.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:41.12AchiestDragonhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIPTEK-12000U-12-x-9-A4-GRAPHICS-TABLET-FREE-UK-DELIVRY_W0QQitemZ300125909553QQihZ020QQcategoryZ39980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
20:41.28AchiestDragonseems good but looks like a bit of a pain for linux support
20:41.55dtidrowbrlcad: did you see the benchmark I posted?
20:46.18dtidrowwent from 5620 to 6244
20:46.57*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=5207211c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-237f61313b8fdc1e)
20:47.20MinuteElectronAnd you would think setting up a wireless connection on Linux would be easy...
20:47.29MinuteElectronWelcome back Windows - I am your friend.
20:48.05dtidrowdepends on the distro and h/w
20:48.31MinuteElectronh/w?
20:48.35dtidrowtook me a little while to get it working here on FC6, but it's fine now
20:48.39dtidrowhardware
20:48.43MinuteElectronAhh,
20:49.11AchiestDragonsuse detects and configures for my wifi straight from the box , where with windows i have to hunt arround for the driver disk
20:49.30dtidrowsomehardware doesn't have drivers for it because the company that sells it or the wireless chipset won't let the info out
20:49.34MinuteElectronThe wireless stick was instantly recognised by Ubuntnu - unfourtunatley I couldn't connect to any networks (well it said I had but the internet wouldn't work).
20:50.37dtidrowmight be a networking issue - did you have ethernet running as well?
20:51.03MinuteElectronI tried it with and without,
20:52.04dtidrownice - about a 11% speed bump just from the extra optimization flags
21:01.00brlcaddtidrow: very nice
21:01.16brlcadwhich options did you use?
21:02.08brlcadhowdy MinuteElectron
21:03.25MinuteElectronhi
21:11.48dtidrow--enable-optimized --with-opengl --with-cflags="-march=pentium-m -msse3 -mfpmath=sse,387 -malign-double"
21:12.32dtidrowused pentium-m instead of nocona because the Core's are supposed to be derived from Pentium-M
21:12.58dtidrowgcc 4.2 has -march=core2 available
21:18.18*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:21.55*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
21:22.33MinuteElectronHa,
21:22.43MinuteElectronAnyway...
21:22.46MinuteElectronbrlcad: Got a mo?
21:33.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: include the configure flags in the summary report, remove surrounding whitespace on the FLAGS variables and only print them if they're not empty
21:34.15brlcadMinuteElectron: sure, what's up
21:34.21MinuteElectronwebsite
21:34.32brlcadstill working on the image, not quite done (got distracted with a related icon)
21:34.42MinuteElectronheh dw
21:35.38IriX64dtidrow:  http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stykerbg4.jpg    there ya go :)
21:35.55IriX64problems being addressed
21:41.56IriX64might as well compare benchmarks, running mine now :)
21:44.42IriX64RTFM=RealTimeFrameMeasurement :P
21:45.55IriX64should have stopped all other jobs i guess
21:46.10dtidrowheh
21:46.44IriX64as I said last night, I prefer accuracy over speed, not that yours is inaccurate :)
21:48.20IriX64something wrong here bldg391 always comes up 74 off by 1 0 off by many
21:48.41dtidrowsimilar here
21:48.58IriX64no idea what goes on there
21:49.17IriX64suppose i could open up the code, but I don't care :)
21:49.23dtidrowsure it's not m35?
21:49.32IriX64just a sec
21:49.56IriX64whup right i read the wrong line
21:50.00dtidrowk
21:51.34IriX64http://rafb.net/p/kamPt390.html <-- there you go, the whole run
21:52.18dtidrowwhat's the cpu?
21:53.23dtidrowcpu speed, I mean...
21:53.56dtidrowhttp://rafb.net/p/QgE7cI34.html - my output
21:57.59IriX64all i used was msse3 opteron and --enable-optimized and --enable-optimizations, I rarely play with CFLAGS=
21:58.34IriX64now to see if it can display geometry :)
21:58.48IriX64whup gotta install it first
22:01.36IriX64cleverl programmed into each make install is a coffee break, goona go get some
22:01.42IriX64cleverly too
22:06.56MinuteElectronI *have* to sleep, I am so tired that I accidentally reverted decent code on a project I was working on this morning. Stayling online to download cygwin and brl-cad from CVS. Goodnight.
22:16.11IriX64Good Night
22:16.44IriX64just how much of the world is represented here (you obviously know where I am)
22:17.49IriX64SuperTaz, gotta be Australia :P
22:18.41MinuteElectronI am UK, but shush about it.
22:19.09IriX64got it sorry, what are you doing not in bed :)
22:19.12MinuteElectronIriX64: Heh, I didn't know you were US.
22:19.29IriX64Canada man the colony :)
22:19.33MinuteElectronIriX64: I had to use the bathroom and came back to check if CVS checkout had finished.
22:19.39MinuteElectronIriX64: Oh, lol.
22:19.56IriX64did cvs treat you well
22:20.24MinuteElectronHasn't finished, already at 80+ MB.
22:20.34MinuteElectronI guess that is about half way
22:20.39MinuteElectronWell,
22:20.43MinuteElectronprobably not actually.
22:20.49MinuteElectronIf you include all the .cvs files
22:20.53IriX64maybe the tarball would have been easier to get started i mean
22:20.56*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
22:21.01MinuteElectronOh,
22:21.15MinuteElectronI thought there was some problems with the tarball.
22:21.18IriX64just unpack it then do the cvs thing
22:21.28MinuteElectronOh, I see.
22:21.41IriX64dunno how much time youd save
22:21.44MinuteElectronStarted now, I am goin to leave my PC on all night so it doesn't matter.
22:21.53IriX64good plan
22:22.06MinuteElectronAnyway, I really do need some sleep. Laterz.
22:22.11IriX64tell it to compile it while you sleep :)
22:22.13IriX64later
22:51.43IriX64http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faceplatekv5.png
22:52.35IriX64drat, i'll use jpg from now on
22:55.08MinuteElectronThat's better.
22:57.34IriX64http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2814/7101po4.jpg  there (latest Build)
22:58.16IriX64I'll stop spamming the channel now :)
22:59.39IriX64hah i should post the rt that just happened (yeah it works) :)
23:01.51MinuteElectronhmm
23:01.54MinuteElectronUser@not-3n1jjeirhea /cygdrive/c/brlcad
23:01.55MinuteElectron$ sh autogen.sh
23:01.57MinuteElectronautogen.sh: line 75: $'\r': command not found
23:01.58MinuteElectronautogen.sh: line 93: syntax error near unexpected token `$'{\r''
23:02.00MinuteElectron'utogen.sh: line 93: `ident ( ) {
23:02.28dtidrow?
23:02.43IriX64shouldn't have to type sh
23:03.04MinuteElectronIriX64: even on cygwin?
23:03.16IriX64on mine anyway :)
23:03.24MinuteElectronheh
23:03.38IriX64just type ./autogen.sh
23:03.49dtidrowshould work  :-)
23:03.54MinuteElectronsame error
23:04.01brlcadthat's odd (regarding autogen.sh) .. sounds like some windows/unix line ending issue
23:04.02MinuteElectronthe funny thing is there is nothing on line 75
23:04.03dtidrowbetter yet, switch to a _real_ OS  ;-)
23:04.38IriX64you saying mine is a figment of my imagination :)
23:04.48IriX64try fedora
23:05.08dtidrowMinuteElectron: what failed?
23:05.10MinuteElectronhmm, so I switched from CRLF to LF and now it works.
23:05.15brlcadIriX64: and RTFM does not stand for RealTimeFrameMeasurement :P
23:05.27dtidrowlol
23:05.30IriX64heh
23:05.43IriX64ReadTheFineManual? :)
23:06.02MinuteElectronERROR:  Unable to locate GNU Autoconf.
23:06.05MinuteElectronha
23:06.20IriX64www.gnu.org compile and go :)
23:06.30brlcadIriX64: also no
23:06.33dtidrowshould be in there somewhere
23:06.48MinuteElectronIriX64: I have to compile on cygwin?
23:06.50IriX64RayTraceFigureOfMerit? ;)
23:07.19IriX64minuteelctron yes
23:07.23brlcadbingo
23:07.29IriX64heh
23:07.57IriX64I'm using 2.61
23:08.09IriX64automake 1.9.6
23:08.17IriX64libtool 1.5.22
23:09.35IriX64ack!! havoc just launched a missile, where do I hide :P
23:10.19IriX64you guys are good, I barely understand mug.g let alone something like havoc
23:10.20dtidrownot behind me!
23:10.50MinuteElectronha 'bash: make: command not found'
23:11.23MinuteElectronthis is hilarious
23:11.41IriX64you need to install make
23:11.46MinuteElectroni see
23:11.54IriX64www.gnu.org :P
23:12.15IriX64www.gnu.org and i are old friends
23:12.25IriX64:)
23:12.52IriX64you'll need gcc to (thats a feat)
23:13.07brlcadthere are cygwin packages that provide all those things
23:13.26IriX64yes but out of date but they'll get you started
23:13.52brlcadMinuteElectron: if you were on cygwin, you probably shouldn't have pulled the zip file .. that's likely where you're getting line ending problems from if you did
23:14.08MinuteElectronbrlcad: I didn't use the zip file.
23:14.12MinuteElectronI used CVS.
23:14.17IriX64he said cvs
23:14.20brlcadah, interesting
23:14.22IriX64whup sorry :)
23:15.05brlcadis the execute bit not set then or something?
23:15.32IriX64use theirs to update
23:15.36brlcadit should tell you to run configure before it tells you to run make
23:15.44brlcadand configure will fail if there is no make
23:15.56MinuteElectronbrlcad: What do you mean? It was a problem with using CRLFs instead of LF
23:16.23brlcadi mean, did ./autogen.sh work?
23:16.27brlcads/work/run/
23:16.50brlcadi don't mean successfully, i mean just did it run at all
23:17.18MinuteElectronIt ran.
23:17.38brlcadokay
23:17.47IriX64try this make --version
23:17.56MinuteElectronIriX64: where?
23:18.12IriX64at the prompt
23:18.41MinuteElectronI found the problem: ./configure failed.
23:18.59IriX64where?
23:19.00MinuteElectronI forgot to install gcc.
23:19.06MinuteElectronat make
23:19.09dtidrowd'oh!
23:19.19IriX64that'll do it every time :)
23:20.59MinuteElectronI am getting the hang of this.
23:21.13*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:22.57IriX64http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3617/oldbuildrw4.jpg  This is 7.8.4, trying to get 7.10 to look like this
23:23.53IriX64now brlcad will say it already does ;)
23:24.56IriX64dog needs a walk ill be back in a bit
23:32.42MinuteElectronha
23:32.44MinuteElectronchecking for cc... no
23:32.46MinuteElectronconfigure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH
23:32.56MinuteElectronI bet you guys can tell I am a total n00b
23:36.25MinuteElectronwtF?
23:36.51MinuteElectronhow the hell am I meant to install bison? without it I can't install gcc and without gcc I can't install bison.
23:42.45IriX64http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8418/musictocompilebyoi5.jpg   :P
23:44.08MinuteElectronI am being forced to go to bed.
23:44.22MinuteElectronI *will* compile this tomorrow morning/
23:44.32IriX64had to cut the walk short, computer reported it dropped a bit, needed me to pick it up :)
23:44.32MinuteElectrongoodnight for the last time
23:44.40IriX64goodnight
23:45.44*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-070-099.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:46.48*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca)
23:47.41RodGallowGlassit works? heh
23:47.47*** part/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726501.dsl.bell.ca)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070701

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070701

00:13.15IriX64Opera, go figure :)
01:01.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca)
01:03.42IriX64who wrote autogen.sh?
01:04.47IriX64the header is there but no authors name or am i just missing it?
01:08.14IriX64just wondering, because i'm having a problem upgrading to automake-1.10, it parsed it as 1.1.0 so i dropped back to 1.9.6
01:16.28IriX64libtool i'm running is 1.5.22 it parses fine
01:22.20IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2   :)  a little playing around
01:23.38IriX64should see what rev irssi is at i guess that ones old
01:26.22IriX64hah .8.11
01:34.09IriX64sigh no perl again, one day i'm gonna have to tackle that
01:38.26*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca)
01:41.20IriX64_works, might as well put it on the server :)
01:47.34IriX64there you go (as if anybody wants it though they all use Mirc :P)
02:04.13IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/598132   <---- man i thought you fixed it (cvs update not 3 hrs ago)
02:05.36IriX64mistake me for a serious man will you :P
02:06.40IriX64the benign ones i won't report :)
02:07.24*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:24.03IriX64http://www.pastebin.ca/598148  <---- could use some help here.
02:24.49*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:28.56IriX64tried with system tk lib too, problem is it comes from the same people :)
02:29.42IriX648.5a5 8.5a6 happens with both
02:38.33IriX64gotta go guys, l8r
04:22.44*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca)
04:30.35IriX64tried a make distclean, tcl has no rule to do a distclean :(
04:42.09IriX64the old build works with Xwin32 too, hoping the same for 7.10 :)
04:45.01IriX64www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mapped.png  have a look
04:46.51IriX64err http:www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2   mapped.png sorry :)
04:55.55brlcadstop it
05:00.36IriX64ok
05:11.27IriX64permantly? If I get something worth sharing, is it allowed?
05:12.17brlcadyou've been going pretty much non-stop for over 4 hours
05:12.35brlcadwith complete disregard to anyone talking back and stopping after 5
05:12.50IriX64apologies
05:33.38IriX64goodnight
06:26.17*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy_ (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
07:34.59*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
08:24.37MinuteElectronbrlcad: busy?
08:25.10MinuteElectronconfigure: creating ./config.status
08:25.12MinuteElectron.infig.status: error: cannot find input file:
08:27.46brlcadsounds like you're still missing things, sounds like autogen.sh did not complete successfully/correctly but I'd need more info to know for sure
08:28.05brlcadrun ./autogen.sh --verbose and make sure it completes correctly
08:29.28MinuteElectronok
08:31.04MinuteElectronbrlcad: winsock.h error http://paste2.org/p/4194
08:51.43MinuteElectronbrlcad: What would be the signs of a problem
09:34.14*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-077-153.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:26.23*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
11:28.35*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.171.166)
11:47.30*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
13:54.23*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:10.21*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
14:14.17*** join/#brlcad n9986 (n=nandeep@59.176.80.223)
14:14.17n9986Hi all
14:14.35*** part/#brlcad n9986 (n=nandeep@59.176.80.223)
14:21.01AchiestDragonwell at least he did not ask a question and leave before anyone got arround to answer it like normal :)
14:28.10pooliohehe, mornin
14:28.22AchiestDragonhi
14:50.20*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
15:09.16*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
15:24.56*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
15:41.32*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
16:42.55brlcadMinuteElectron: ping
16:43.24brlcadAchiestDragon: :)  true
16:43.42brlcadso, how does this look:  http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/newtitle.png
16:55.38MinuteElectronbrlcad: back
16:57.36MinuteElectronbrlcad: wow! looking good
16:58.45brlcadit should collapse down to about 1024 wide minimum with the right css
16:59.08elite01fine
16:59.17MinuteElectronit is 1200x600
16:59.48brlcadright, at 1200 now in that clip, but it should compress further
16:59.55MinuteElectronok
17:00.13MinuteElectronyou have two images?
17:01.20brlcadthe right side should be able to move in/out almost all the way over -- where the search and menu come together probably
17:01.26brlcadtwo images?
17:01.34MinuteElectronok, I get it
17:02.32brlcadthere are probably 4 or 5 css-layers in there to make it work
17:03.39brlcadthe logo text, the left background, the right background, the left search, and the right menu
17:04.19MinuteElectronthe logo text is going to be seperate?
17:04.26MinuteElectronit would be easier to make it par tof hte image
17:05.12brlcadthen it won't compress much more than 1200
17:05.29brlcadto get the right side to slide under the left without seeing a hard line
17:05.53MinuteElectronhmm, ok
17:06.00brlcadi mean unless you can sort it out, good luck with that :)
17:06.10MinuteElectron:D
17:06.11brlcadthe css is the hard part ;)
17:06.22brlcadthere's lots of little detail in ther
17:06.25MinuteElectrondo you have the original photoshop files so i can get the layers out of it?
17:06.30brlcadthe menu in particular
17:06.36brlcadyeah, sure
17:06.39brlcadhold on a sec
17:08.31brlcaduploaded, same dir titlebar.psd
17:09.00MinuteElectronthanks
17:12.33MinuteElectronbrlcad: ha, I see the Haiku layer at the bottom :P
17:15.04brlcadyup
17:15.06brlcadcomparison
17:15.31brlcadand inspiration
17:31.20MinuteElectronbrlcad: There is a problem with the truck.
17:32.13brlcadwhat's that?
17:32.24MinuteElectron82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
17:32.27MinuteElectronhttp://82.7.33.28/drupal-5.1/
17:32.38MinuteElectronOn resolutions 1024x768 it looks good
17:32.50MinuteElectronbut anything lower then the truck gets cut.
17:34.09brlcadthat's what I was referring to about making the title text a separate layer
17:34.30MinuteElectronoh I see,
17:34.35brlcadmakes that line go away
17:34.36MinuteElectronworking on it
17:35.01brlcadthree layers, so the right side is above the left's background but under the left's text
17:35.56brlcaddid gimp strip out the text layer effects or'd you do that?
17:36.17MinuteElectronit was gimp
17:36.26MinuteElectroncoudl you send me the text in a png
17:36.29brlcadsure
17:38.05brlcadwant them as one or two?
17:38.11MinuteElectronone please
17:41.29brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/titletext.png
17:41.46MinuteElectronthanks
17:44.46brlcadsure, let me know if you need any others
17:45.02brlcadthat should be the only blend going on if i'm not mistaken
17:48.46brlcadah, xyz needs it's own layer too to work right
17:49.33MinuteElectronxyz?
17:49.40MinuteElectronoh
17:49.43MinuteElectronthe graph
17:50.03brlcadthe axes
17:50.08MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can you take a look at the thing?
17:50.19MinuteElectronIt is not improved.
17:50.47brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/xyz.png
17:51.54brlcadlooks like it's getting better
17:52.01MinuteElectronnot at 800x600
17:54.22MinuteElectronxyz added
17:54.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: Opinon?
18:01.37*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:03.41brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/titleleft.png
18:04.26brlcadwith that, you should be able to let the right side be all the way back
18:04.32brlcadso it just slides under
18:04.44pooliohowdy brlcad
18:05.02*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177726061.dsl.bell.ca)
18:05.03brlcadhowdy poolio
18:07.01IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2     m35.jpg  (it did it :))
18:07.02pooliogorgeous day, what are we all doing on our computers? :p
18:07.23IriX64poolio and why is our wallpaper a shot of a sunset :)
18:07.55MinuteElectronbrlcad: Any chance you could remove the border on the top and left, I cannot without b0rking the transparency.
18:08.07MinuteElectronIriX64: cool, ure server fixed
18:08.31brlcadIriX64: interesting, photon mapping I presume
18:08.39IriX64minuteelectron yeah was trying something, doesn't work that way :)
18:08.41brlcadMinuteElectron: sure
18:08.44IriX64brlcad yes
18:08.47brlcadyou mean the black stripe
18:09.15MinuteElectronyeah
18:09.19brlcadwould like to retain the hairline, though it certainly doesn't have to be in the iamge
18:09.26MinuteElectrondw
18:09.30MinuteElectronI will change the other images
18:09.50poolioMinuteElectron: Is there a recent version of the site up somewhere?
18:10.08MinuteElectronhttp://82.7.33.28/drupal-1.5
18:10.33IriX64doesn't resolve minuteelectron
18:10.39brlcadwant me to fill it in transparent or clip the image one pixel smaller?
18:10.51MinuteElectronbrlcad: neither, I will do it.
18:10.58poolioit's drupal-5.1 not 1.5
18:11.03MinuteElectronyeah
18:11.05MinuteElectronbah
18:11.14brlcadso, what do you want me to do with it? :)
18:11.15IriX64heh
18:11.20MinuteElectronbrlcad: nothing
18:11.29brlcadheh, okay
18:11.52poolionifty header.
18:12.02MinuteElectronlook now everyone
18:12.21MinuteElectronjust not in IE.
18:12.34brlcadawesome
18:12.47IriX64i'm looking in ie seems right
18:12.49poolioWOAH! Hooray transparency!
18:12.50MinuteElectronResizes successfully down to 800x600
18:12.59MinuteElectronIriX64: Yes, grey blobs FTW.
18:13.16MinuteElectronIriX64: You running 7?
18:13.31IriX646 let me try fiefox minutelectron
18:13.35MinuteElectronok
18:13.37IriX64err firefox
18:14.34brlcadwoot, that actually lets it work all the way down to 655 :-)
18:14.44MinuteElectron:D
18:14.53IriX64minuteelectron looks same
18:15.02MinuteElectronsame?
18:15.06IriX64yes
18:15.18MinuteElectrondo a screenshot just to test please :)
18:15.37pooliobrlcad: I'd say 651, but ok :)
18:15.39brlcadpoolio: here's the end effect we're currently going for: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/newtitle.png
18:15.45IriX64just a sec firefox first then ie ok?
18:15.48brlcadpoolio: heh, fair nuf :)
18:15.59MinuteElectronok
18:16.08pooliobrlcad: cool, I'm not sure I'm a fan of the tan navigation though
18:16.30poolioand I'd float the search box into the header instead of having it stick down
18:16.54brlcadthe color was pulled from the eagle logo frame
18:17.05poolioYeah, I still think it's ugly though :)
18:17.22poolioand if you aren't using the eagle logo in the header it doesnt really matter
18:17.27AchiestDragonhmm
18:17.46poolioi think a more purple-blue-grey theme would be better
18:17.49brlcadyeah, more just a nod to it than a reason
18:17.53poolioyeah
18:18.07brlcadwhich matched up nicely color-wise with the truck and the green
18:18.12IriX64minuteelectron, my server same.jpg both in one
18:18.27AchiestDragonnot so shure , the old logo looks a bit too military based , the new one looks like well home made
18:18.52MinuteElectronIriX64: Yeah, that is how it is meant to look.
18:19.19brlcadi'm not entirely happy with the menu itself yet, but it's something
18:19.38pooliobrlcad: mhmm. I'm really picky when it comes to web design :)
18:20.10AchiestDragonthe truck needs to have perspective turned on
18:21.13brlcadAchiestDragon: yeah, I'm actually trying to get away from the whole military feel just a little.  not loosing the logo, but pushing it out of the spotlight a little
18:21.53brlcadpoolio: you're more than welcome to tweak it or come up with another menu :)
18:22.00AchiestDragonues the old logo as a door image on the side of the truck
18:22.52IriX64brlcad: perhaps a photon map shot of havoc somewhere just to show the power inherent
18:23.13pooliobrlcad: hehe. can I do it on the clock?
18:23.50brlcadpoolio: after this summer, sure :)
18:24.15AchiestDragonyes , that i think is the problem with the new logo the effect is shows is not rendered it gives the impression that the output of brlcad will look like that
18:24.26pooliobrlcad: hehe, should I keep beset as my first priority then?
18:24.41pooliobrlcad: also, is your my.brlcad.org/tmp directory supposed to be world readable?
18:25.07brlcadAchiestDragon: by logo do you mean the title text?
18:25.18AchiestDragonno the graphics with it
18:25.34brlcadnot sure what you mean then
18:25.44brlcadI generated all the graphics from within brl-cad
18:26.18pooliobrlcad: AHAHHA. http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/endofworld.swf
18:26.37brlcadonly thing I didn't is the menu and the BRL-CAD title text .. and I could have done the title text too, but that would have been a bear to set up the same lighting hilights
18:26.53brlcadpoolio: yeah, that's great
18:26.53AchiestDragoni mean the graphis you used show the wire frame , and half transparancy , rather than a solid rnedered photon view in perspective
18:27.43brlcadit's a blend of a wireframe, an hidden line render, and a regular raytrace
18:29.13brlcadthere's actually a point for that too -- the progression of primitives on the left to more complex read geometry on the right
18:29.14pooliobrlcad: i think I might get some work done, try to figure out how to deal with all the different shapes and trees and what not
18:29.36pooliobrlcad: what shapes do you think should be implemented for starters? spheres/ellipsoids, rpp, and anything else?
18:31.57brlcadconics (tgc family), ellipsoids (ell family), planar polyhedra (arb8 family), and the torus
18:32.13brlcadthat will give most shapes
18:32.18poolioalright cool. is rpp part of the arb8 family?
18:32.22brlcadyeah
18:32.41poolioalright, and are there sub shapes for arb8 or is rpp just an alias for a specialized arb8?
18:33.05brlcadsort of an alias
18:33.29brlcadthey are stored as arb8's but are evaluated as rpps (as you can do the ray-tracing faster that way)
18:34.28MinuteElectronThat end of the world video is hilarious.
18:34.34poolioah Ok. Also I might end up working with the tcl strings for the shapes, seems like that means a lot less work for me
18:35.03brlcadjust like how the equation of an rcc (cylindrical tube) is very simple so that is used for evaluation, whereas the general equation of that shape is a truncated general cone (that is slightly more complex to evaluate)
18:37.51MinuteElectronbrlcad: I have a problem.
18:38.04MinuteElectronI am about to start doing the CSS for the navigation bar,
18:38.36MinuteElectronhowever the class identifiers could change when druapl is installed for real
18:39.16MinuteElectronand if it did the entire navigation would be ruined
18:39.27brlcadso lets do it for real then ;)
18:39.37poolioMinuteElectron: That's why God invited regex.
18:39.40brlcads/lets // ;)
18:39.44pooliobrlcad: ahahhaa :D
18:40.08MinuteElectronpoolio: ok...
18:40.17brlcadi'll just need a few bits of info from you
18:40.24MinuteElectronok...
18:41.36AchiestDragonbrlcad:   like  http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Brlcad.jpg&oldid=607
18:42.25IriX64AchiestDragon, nice, my current wallpaper :)
18:43.00IriX64AchiestDragon I think I like yours better
18:43.20AchiestDragonit shows of what can be done better than showing of the low qualaty working view
18:45.17IriX64AchiestDragon, it's too small for wallpaper, stretches out of proportion
18:46.07AchiestDragonthe width of the image is limited as it is only a section of the image on your site so not  hi res ,,
18:46.23AchiestDragonthe brlcad site that is
18:50.33IriX64AchiestDragon, my server.... Havoc.jpg
18:51.36brlcadAchiestDragon: hehe, though if you knew the setup required for that image... it's a bit more misleading than blended renderings effort-wise :)
18:52.21AchiestDragonyes
18:52.37brlcadpersonally, i'm a bit tired of that image too :)
18:52.56brlcadthough I certainly see and show it a bit more than you probably :)
18:53.31AchiestDragonbut the renderings used dont show of the realistic effect that brlcad can produce , although i tend  to aggree that that himage has been arround for some time
18:54.05AchiestDragonany user submitted image that comes close to the "realistic effect" with good detail that could be used
18:54.33*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
18:54.44IriX64AchiestDragon, if you like mine use it everything on that site is available
18:55.06pooliooops.
18:55.27AchiestDragonthe helecopter is good but its yet another mil type image
18:55.57IriX64AchiestDragon, choose something in the example geometry or give me one :)
18:56.50IriX64AchiestDragon, the shuttle or nozzle would be great but i can't find them and am not about to purchase that program :)
18:57.24AchiestDragonhad one better , give me a few mins see if i can find the archive
18:57.31IriX64sure
19:07.26AchiestDragonhttp://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Alien.png&oldid=608
19:08.10AchiestDragonit was a blender file that i exported then imported into brlcad  some time ago
19:10.58AchiestDragoni dont have the name of the original author of that but its gpl and if it was to be used it would need his name for the credits
19:15.18brlcadheh, neat picture
19:16.22IriX64AchiestDragon, thought you were going to give me geometry :)  
19:16.34AchiestDragonalot of the meshes turned into  arrays of triangles so it lost the curves on the surfaces in the export
19:26.26AchiestDragoni did this in solidworks but converted it to brlcad  ...
19:26.40AchiestDragonhttp://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Rendered.png&oldid=609
19:28.35AchiestDragonbefore making this ,  http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/robot4.jpg  
19:30.04IriX64AchiestDragon, I presume the materials are germanium and silicon :)
19:32.25IriX64artist too
19:33.22IriX64mmmm 7.6.1 my first experience was with 7.6.0
19:36.22IriX64TankCar.jpg
19:49.26brlcadAchiestDragon: hah, that's awesome
19:49.35brlcaddues it actually drive?
19:51.00AchiestDragonit needed another ideler wheel at each side to stop it sheading the tracks when turning
20:02.39*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:05.51IriX64AchiestDragon, they built that from brl-cad specs?
20:06.24IriX64heh roborooter comes to mind (duck)
20:47.32IriX64AchiestDragon, maybe you can use this, it came out black though, have to play with the illumination
20:47.37IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Geometric_Solutions_Tank_Car2.jpg
21:05.26AchiestDragonmaybe ,, do you have a raytraced output with good lighting of it
21:13.48*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@unaffiliated/MinuteElectron)
21:16.35IriX64AchiestDragon, how bout a regular raytrace not photonmapped will that do, I can have one quickly?
21:18.48AchiestDragonthe havoc pic is good because it looks realistic , i gues theres little chance of finding something rendered to  that qualaty
21:19.11brlcadseeing havoc rendered with rise would be interesting
21:19.13AchiestDragonand ok so it took how many days to render
21:19.43poolioalright guys, i'm gonna go play some ultimate, be back later :)
21:20.33IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/GeoMetricSolutionsTankCar.png
21:20.38IriX64days?
21:21.10IriX64adrt doesn't compile here (yet:))
21:27.23AchiestDragonimeant the stryker icv      5 days on 48 X 2.4Ghz xeon's
21:28.40IriX64AchiestDragon, I saw that 8trillion rays
21:29.04brlcadthose numbers were later cut in half, fwiw
21:29.29IriX64AchiestDragon, lets do a bench, get brlcad to send me the .g file :)
21:29.46IriX64brlcad I can't imagine that
21:30.07AchiestDragonwell bot hmged and archer dont work on this pc :( so canot try atm
21:30.46IriX64I haven't played with archer yet
21:31.12AchiestDragonwas hoping archer would of been running in linux by now
21:31.24IriX64superior to mged?
21:32.07brlcadin some ways, not in others
21:32.23IriX64noted will explore later
21:32.27AchiestDragonit looked an easyer interface to use when i saw it last , ok so got to be about 2 years back
21:32.29brlcadAchiestDragon: patches welcome ;)
21:32.42brlcadI'd give just about anyone commit access if they wanted to work on it ;)
21:33.02brlcadis mostly build integration issues, not even archer issues for the most part
21:33.26brlcadit's just been low on the totem pole
21:34.02AchiestDragoni may have a go , but need to sort out my graphic card config first ,, got to remove one of the cards and get the system to boot without resorting to some od config each time
21:35.41AchiestDragontheres a matrox g200 quad head and a g550 dual head card in here , the quad card is driving 2 lcd's  and the dual just the one , but it forgets the xconfig after power on
21:36.23AchiestDragoni have to manualy edit it and restart x after each power on
21:37.29AchiestDragonalmost at the stage of doing a compleate reinstall , but sort of keep posponing it as it works fine after
21:40.32AchiestDragonalthough going to load brlcad on the windows box when i get time
21:41.26AchiestDragonmaybe later tonight
21:41.29brlcad:)
21:58.18IriX64AciestDragon, the windows archer i've experimented with
21:58.28IriX64err AchiestDragon too
22:03.21IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Archer.png  <--- just messing around
22:05.18IriX64brlcad: does -ffast-math really make a difference, i've never experimented with speed enhancers
22:07.51brlcadexperiment
22:19.25AchiestDragonwell installed in windows
22:20.08AchiestDragonnow i remeber how bad the mged command set is to remeber
22:21.36brlcadyeah, it can be a bear if you don't use it repeatedly
22:21.50brlcadwhich wouldn't be so bad, but the help facilities are teh suck too sometimes
22:22.43AchiestDragonwell at least i have a working verision installed on one macine anyway
22:23.45AchiestDragonalthough not in mood to trol though doc's tonight
22:24.35IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mged.png  <--- this command set ;)
22:27.10poolioevenin
22:27.24SuperTazirix
22:27.36SuperTazwhat modeller is in the chackground of the archer image?
22:27.42SuperTazbackground, even
22:28.09IriX64modeller?
22:28.25SuperTazwith the wireframe in it?
22:28.44IriX64havoc and i rt'ed it
22:28.51SuperTazrt?
22:28.56IriX64raytrace
22:28.59SuperTazahhh
22:29.08SuperTazhavoc is the modeller?
22:29.14SuperTazworks with brl-cad?
22:29.26IriX64I don't know your terms explain modeller to me
22:29.46SuperTazthat which you created the model in
22:29.59SuperTazthe tool behind the rendering
22:30.02IriX64the geometry window
22:30.06SuperTazyes
22:30.08SuperTazwhat is that?
22:30.15IriX64part of archer
22:30.16brlcadthat is archer
22:30.19SuperTazahhh
22:30.20IriX64yes
22:30.32IriX64sorry for the confusion :)
22:30.34SuperTazwhere'd you get archer?
22:30.54IriX64windows binaries distribution;)
22:31.01IriX64off sourceforge
22:31.05*** join/#brlcad WindowsDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
22:31.10SuperTazoh...it's windows only?
22:31.13brlcadarcher is a refactoring of mged written predominantly by mged's primary author
22:31.15IriX64yes sorry
22:31.24pooliobrlcad: who was mged's primary author?
22:31.40brlcadhe started cleaning stuff up (starting several years ago) and after a while, he had the foundations for a new editor
22:31.47brlcadpoolio: Bob
22:31.53brlcadParker
22:32.05SuperTazahhhh
22:32.05SuperTazit's nice
22:32.05SuperTazshame it's windows only
22:32.10brlcadit's not really windows-only
22:32.15SuperTazoh?
22:32.18brlcadit's just only been released in binary form on windows
22:32.24brlcadand presently doesn't run out of CVS ;)
22:32.38brlcadbut code-wise, it'll run on windows, linux, mac, bsd, at least
22:32.51SuperTazoh
22:33.03SuperTazso, in other words...I can't run it on my mac
22:33.04brlcadjust needs some build infrastructure clean-up
22:33.06SuperTazbecause it won't build
22:33.10brlcadright
22:33.16brlcadactually, it builds
22:33.17SuperTazwell poop
22:33.27SuperTazit just won't run?
22:33.28brlcadbut it will complain at run-time about not finding some resource library it needs
22:33.31brlcadpath problem
22:33.34SuperTazahhh
22:33.39brlcadlooking in the wrong place
22:33.53SuperTazis it fixable?
22:34.31brlcadinfinitely
22:34.47SuperTazI'm just asking because I would like something a little smoother than vanilla mged
22:35.10SuperTazcan't find archer on sourceforge
22:35.26brlcadit's still not meant to be a full-blown mged replacement, missing lots of commands you'd eventually want
22:35.51SuperTazyeah, but it looks pretty decent for rapid prototyping
22:36.04brlcadbob gets to play with it mostly in his spare time, mostly good as a viewer at this point
22:36.06SuperTazlooks nice and user-friendly
22:36.10IriX64unix archer is part of cvs
22:36.10SuperTazoh
22:36.13SuperTazbah
22:36.13brlcadit's a lot more friendly
22:36.29brlcadit can do editing, but I"m just saying that it's far from "done"
22:36.32SuperTazI just need something friendly to design geometry in
22:36.42SuperTazmged is not friendly, thus far
22:36.49SuperTazof course, I'm a n00b to mged
22:36.53IriX64how so?
22:36.55brlcadfar from replacing even a 10% of what mged does feature-wise
22:37.17brlcadthough what it does, it generally does better
22:37.22poolioSuperTaz: mged isn't that hard to learn. Take some time and read through the tutorials online
22:37.27brlcadreally just needs some loving care and attention
22:37.34SuperTazI have the tutorials
22:37.46SuperTazI just have to have the time to go through them
22:38.01IriX64SuperTaz you can create many of the standard primitives from the gui
22:38.03brlcadtherein being the crux of the problem ;)
22:38.07SuperTazand it'd be nice to have a nicer interface
22:38.21SuperTazI'd take an Alias 6 interface
22:38.27brlcadthere are other efforts also under way for a better interface
22:38.31SuperTazor an explore interface
22:38.39brlcadfor which archer is in the right direction, but not on the same path
22:38.47SuperTaz*nod*
22:39.07SuperTazeven the original softimage interface would be fine
22:40.07SuperTazthough I wasn't a huge fan of it...I preferred alias and explore...they used very little real estate for buttons and menus, but made it all available via context menu (explore) or via a single mode/button set (alias)
22:40.09brlcadit's a shame that mged's interface is so difficult (and ugly), because feature-wise, it does it a major disservice -- there are lots of things you can do in brl-cad that really are better than just about every other package
22:40.26SuperTaz*nod*
22:40.33SuperTazI like its maturity
22:40.41SuperTazbut the interface is poo
22:40.44brlcad:)
22:40.47SuperTazI've used a bunch of modellers
22:40.52SuperTazsome nearly as mature
22:41.02SuperTazand they all have better interfaces
22:41.51brlcadthey all have had entirely different development lifelines and budgets too ;)
22:42.10SuperTazof course :)
22:42.12brlcadit wasn't really until brl-cad became open source that the interface became that much of an issue
22:42.13IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Test.png <---- this took seconds
22:42.27SuperTazbut the military and then a commercial organization developed brl-cad
22:42.47brlcadcommercial org?
22:43.08WindowsDragonwell here goes nothing , brb on other machine soon holefully
22:43.13SuperTazyou'd think they'd have made an interface that was at least semi-user friendly
22:43.20brlcadit's never been unilaterally developed by a commercial org -- closest would have been GSI in the 90's but even their work was a partnership
22:43.25SuperTazbrl: didn't it it go private?
22:43.30brlcadnope
22:43.37SuperTazoh...I thought GSI owned it for that period
22:43.46SuperTazunder contract to the gov't
22:43.54SuperTazdidn't realize it was a partnership
22:44.11SuperTazcause I thought they made it commercially available in that period?
22:44.13brlcadno no, it's always remained under active development since it started
22:44.27brlcadyou might be thinking of SURVICE Engineering
22:44.46brlcadas they provide commercial _support_ and have done so for many years
22:44.54brlcadyou could buy a copy or brl-cad, and it'd come from them
22:45.05brlcadbut it was the same version that we were making
22:45.10SuperTazanyway, in 20+ years of development, you'd think it would have gotten an intuitive view menu, a sensible default view (X Y Z perspective)
22:45.15SuperTazand a couple of other things
22:45.22brlcadthey just built the binaries and put them on a disc for you
22:45.27SuperTazahhh
22:45.36SuperTazI thought they also did some active development, too
22:45.37brlcadalong with nice printed manuals and guaranteed support staff for answering your questiongs
22:46.07brlcadthey do some development, still do even, but they participate just like anyone else in the open source arena now
22:46.25SuperTaz*nod*
22:46.30SuperTazwell, that's good, at least
22:46.42brlcadsurvice basically paid bob to work on archer for a couple years non-stop
22:46.43SuperTazanyway, I'm sure it's possible to get it to look better
22:46.49brlcadthat's why it got as far as it did
22:46.49SuperTazahhh...nice
22:47.01brlcadthen they needed him on some other things
22:47.09IriX64SuperTaz, do you want me to upload these binaries since you can't find them?
22:47.26SuperTazirix: won't help me any...this is a mac :)
22:47.27brlcadSuperTaz: he meant for Mac, so probably not :)
22:47.33IriX64ahh
22:47.45IriX64:)
22:48.29brlcadSuperTaz: you would think that a better interface would have cropped up, but the domain and demands of what everyone needs *right now* always overrule
22:48.33SuperTazcan't remember the shell command to start x on a mac
22:48.47SuperTazbrlcad: yeah, often the reality
22:49.13brlcadthat is, the folks that pay for new development don't care if it's pretty or even if it's easy to use, so long as it can get the job done (which mged does splendidly most of the time)
22:49.16SuperTazbrlcad: sadly, it's been proven that a good interface makes for much more time
22:49.20brlcadopen -a X11
22:49.24SuperTaz*nod*
22:49.42SuperTazahhh
22:49.46SuperTazthanks
22:49.49brlcadSuperTaz: oh, I know .. but saying it's proven doesn't pay for the new interface ;)
22:50.03SuperTazI think I was thinking of a different command, but that works ;)
22:50.19brlcadno matter how many times you say it, how many graphs and time studies you do -- they need/want other features and time is limited
22:50.25brlcadso it's up to the open source community really
22:50.44brlcadwhere the economics go out the window mostly :)
22:51.01SuperTazand then they'll rebundle it and make a killing ;)
22:52.18brlcadnah, at worst, they'd be like the gforgegroup is to gforge or like redhat is to the linux kernel -- a distributor for something that you can get for free, available for folks that want to pay for guaranteed support
22:52.41SuperTazis brl-cad gpl?
22:52.44SuperTazthought it was bsd?
22:52.47brlcadlgpl and bsd
22:52.54SuperTaz*nod*
22:53.02brlcadmost of the code is lgpl
22:53.05SuperTazso they can sell it for as much as they'd like :)
22:53.26SuperTazand add their own customizations around it :)
22:53.27brlcadbuild infrastructure, docs, data resources, and some other portions like the benchmark suite are bsd
22:53.39*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
22:54.01brlcadthat they could and so could you
22:54.36brlcadthey wouldn't do anything in bad faith, though, they're a pretty good group
22:55.19brlcadand they'd sure as heck not want to risk any bad relationship with the gov't, they know who their daddy is
22:55.26SuperTazokay...slowly fighting my way into the gui
22:55.45SuperTaz*nod*
22:55.58SuperTazand yes, I know I could take it and spruce up the gui and sell it
22:56.21SuperTazif I did that, though, a) I'd need some customers and b) I'd still contribute back ;)
22:56.57IriX64SuperTaz, I just plat want my code, maybe you can make a killing with it :)
22:57.02brlcadyou'd be obligated for most of the code, only your enhancements that weren't integrated would be yours to share or not
22:57.02IriX64play not plat
22:57.54SuperTazbrlcad: yeah
22:58.01SuperTazbrlcad: not that I'm about to do so :)
22:58.45SuperTazbrlcad: but you can always do things like build a plugin harness that's lgpl, and then create plugins that are closed source or restricted distribution, etc.
22:59.30SuperTazi.e. make the plugins GPL and distribute a commercial version of them as well (optimized and/or otherwise fortified)
22:59.55SuperTazand then you just disallow commercial distribution of the plugins
23:00.02SuperTazthere are other licenses, too...
23:00.05SuperTaz*shrug*
23:00.29brlcadyeah, just not likely worth the effort and bad publicity if they didn't get a nod that it was okay beforehand
23:00.30SuperTazthe MySQL and Postgres model works pretty well...it allows them to pay developers AND leverage the community
23:01.38brlcad"pretty well" minus a little political backlash to the purists
23:01.44pooliomuahaha. beset shall be closed source ;)
23:01.51SuperTazso?
23:01.59SuperTazthe purists are great in theory
23:02.18brlcadmore the poison aspects
23:02.20SuperTazbut you just see what happens if no one is paying for any software
23:02.42SuperTazI love open source
23:02.47SuperTazdon't get me wrong
23:02.58SuperTazI've contributed to several projects :)
23:03.22SuperTazbut...commercial interests drive a LOT of open source innovation
23:03.51brlcadit does, though commercial only tends to do so when it serves their financial goals in politically tactful ways
23:04.14SuperTazsure
23:04.40SuperTazbut meeting customer demands (the users) is what makes sense for them financially (usually)
23:04.52brlcadstill mostly moot for brl-cad -- the CAD industry is *already* a massive multi-billion dollar industry that takes utterly *massive* development capital just to get a basic functioning toolset
23:05.44SuperTazyes, but brl-cad would probably have some decent market share if it had a more intuitive interface :)
23:06.07brlcadwe're the farthest out there by a really long ways, with a funding source, and we're still way behind in many aspects -- entire massive domains we don't cater to (ECAD, MCAD, CADD, ..) well and features that one would expect outright of commercial (a reasonable gui)
23:06.15SuperTaz(sorry if I'm slow here...rebuilding my keyboard while we speak)
23:06.29brlcadyep, mged's interface is by far the biggest detriment to our progress at this point
23:06.53SuperTazyes...it's be quite commercially viable with a solid interface
23:07.00SuperTazit's, even :)
23:07.17brlcadthat's why I'm looking to spark more development interest by getting talented students involved in making a new interfaces, new tools
23:07.28SuperTazyeah, that'd be good
23:07.32brlcadopen source community will follow once the gui is in place, just not readily beforehand
23:07.35SuperTazare you in academia?
23:07.58SuperTazyes...that's the thing...the open source community cares about gui for these things :)
23:08.17brlcadwe have long ties to several big groups in academia, particularly computer graphics
23:08.54SuperTazthat's good
23:09.06AchiestDragonok now back to only one graphics card in this machine , still got big bug with mged , is this documented with a workarround or do i need to file a bug report
23:09.17SuperTazI could maybe get the depaul crowd interested...I'd have to figure out who to talk to, though
23:09.46brlcadUNC chapel hill, Hopkins, UUtah, Texas A&M, UDel, .. a lot of BRL-CAD's early design and development days were in tight collaboration with active research (and even today, there is some still going on)
23:09.53SuperTazthey're awfully microsoft oriented overall, but they have an okay HCI program, and this'd be up their alley
23:09.54AchiestDragonon a multihad display the frame buffer only works with the windows on one monitor
23:10.52pooliobrlcad: anything from CMU?
23:10.53brlcadi would have *loved* to have known about BRL-CAD when I was taking computer graphics and other computer science courses in college
23:11.02SuperTazokay... no delete key now, either :P
23:11.14SuperTazI'd really better be careful what I type ;)
23:12.21brlcadpoolio: yes actually
23:12.44SuperTazI think that the problem here is less that the keyboard is dirty and more that kensington just didn't design it all that well
23:12.48brlcadiirc, he was a summer hire who later became a core developer for many years
23:13.02pooliobrlcad: ah sweet
23:13.22SuperTazhrmm...at least I have an enter key again ;)
23:14.03brlcadpoolio: in that case, though, it was with the student, not with CMU faculty -- I don't think we have ties to anyone in their faculty bstaff right now
23:15.00brlcadthe schools a listed were a subset of those where we actually worked with faculty too, on research or development
23:15.36brlcadthere have certainly been other schools
23:15.40poolioah cool
23:15.56pooliobrlcad: are you trying to recruit people out of college now?
23:16.22SuperTazit's the distinction between working with a student and a school
23:16.36SuperTazbrl...who do you actually work for? :)
23:17.22brlcadpoolio: out of anywhere really, just need the passion, background, and interest ;)
23:17.27AchiestDragonie like this shows   http://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Snap.jpg&oldid=610     it works on the righthand monitor only
23:17.39pooliobrlcad: hehe yeah.
23:24.06brlcadAchiestDragon: heh, I think I noticed that a long while back too
23:24.20brlcadthat's "probably" a Tk issue, but hard to say
23:24.46AchiestDragonmaybe , i am using kde and it can be  a bit odd sometimes on framebuffer issues
23:25.08AchiestDragonodd that its working on one monitor though
23:25.25AchiestDragonand all on the same card
23:26.24AchiestDragonthink i am still going to have to reinstall linux as it does not seem ot have cleared the other issue
23:26.38AchiestDragonthat may be part of the problem though
23:33.35AchiestDragonho thats a point ,  on the gui , maybe it would be posible to write a qt4 frontends for the gui ,  you do know the new qt4 licence allows for gpl code  to be compiled for all supported o/s's
23:34.06AchiestDragonso that should make it a bit easyer to do the crossplatform gui mods
23:34.28AchiestDragon<PROTECTED>
23:36.31AchiestDragontheres talk that most kde apps will get ported to windows when the qt4 port of kde is done
23:36.53AchiestDragonand mac . and a few other o/s's
23:38.30brlcadAchiestDragon: it's come up *lots* of times .. opens the whole qt vs gtk debate but certainly a viable approach nonetheless
23:39.29brlcadwell aware of their licensing, though gpl is actually a downside imho -- sticking to bsd/mit/lgpl style code is generally more preferred
23:40.03AchiestDragoni started to learn qt3 but stopped as qt4 was dew and may as well wait for it rathe than having to relearn  
23:40.05brlcadavoids integration and refactoring issues outright and generally keeps the purse-holders feeling a little more comfortable with themselves for some reason
23:40.54SuperTazyeah, it was interesting doing linux kernel work at motorola
23:42.08SuperTazwe got it done, though...there was a balance we had to maintain between what was open source and what was closed
23:42.16SuperTazit was interesting to say the least
23:42.20yukonbobAchiestDragon: your display issue sounds more like X than kde/gnome or a wm issue to me... depending on display properties, I've got apps that'll do that too (start mplayer on one screen and try to drag to other)... I'm using XOrg(6.x) witha MergedFB (versus Xinerama, for example) with no problems...
23:43.42AchiestDragoni think its an x issue also , as it basicaly apperears a bit odd with its own settings sometimes
23:44.31AchiestDragonnow with the 2 card setup i had the same problem with xine only displaying video on the same monitor , but with 1 card it works fine on all
23:44.51AchiestDragonjust mged seems to have the same problem still
23:46.05AchiestDragoni will reinstall , but not tonight , need to be in the right mood or will get ratty
23:46.12yukonbob:)
23:48.01AchiestDragoni have been putting it off , untill the next hdd upgrade , then can just do a fresh install and copy the files over after
23:57.27*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
23:57.27*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070702

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070702

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01:01.11IriX64I'm playing around here :)   http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/bldg391.png
01:25.16IriX64I know you guys don't do windows, but did anybody try that windowsirssi.zip, it's the unix code.
01:26.16IriX64no perl, but still, not bad
01:37.03IriX64I deleted it doh wait
01:40.27IriX64windowsirssi-0.8.11.zip
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05:02.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: doxygenify, check for null dereferencing
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06:30.10MinuteElectronbrlcad: The navigation in the psd image you sent me is different to that of the sitemap.txt - which should I be basing the navigation on?
07:01.50brlcadMinuteElectron: not exactly
07:02.04brlcadMinuteElectron: look at the second line
07:03.17brlcadit would probably start out with no tabs depressed (as that's "Home" and where the logo takes you)
07:05.52brlcadthe other categories will still be a part of the site, just not necessarily on the "titlebar menu" .. the sitemap would probably be hidden down below for example, no need to have that up front and center
07:16.05brlcadyeah, probably should have explained that earlier -- those two lines up top starting with Home were two main menus i was pondering over, the rest below are sections of the site and what goes into each section.  some sections are best as blocks that lead to sections, others are menu items, others can be tiny links/sections/items/whatever just reachable from somewhere
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10:50.48IriX64Laniakea: http://irix32.apaces.live.com/photos
10:51.22IriX64err http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
10:55.15LaniakeaIriX64: did you render the pictures yourself?
10:55.27IriX64no those are from twibright
10:55.49IriX64err the other albumn is done here
10:56.03LaniakeaIriX64: are you a brl-cad developer?
10:56.17IriX64i don't draw though those are all examples included in brl-cad
10:56.31IriX64heh me no, i just play
10:57.08IriX64try http://irix64.spaces.live.com/photos
10:58.24IriX64somebody gave me a little goody to do hex bolts, wait i'll upload it
11:00.15IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2   it'd called hex.c
11:00.19IriX64it's too
11:03.17IriX64works i think
11:05.26IriX64Laniakea, you asked me, now i'll ask you, are you a brl-cad developer?
11:33.51*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.113.121)
11:42.15LaniakeaIriX64: no I'm not
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12:13.45pooliomornin
12:14.13IriX64morning poolio
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12:51.03pooliobrlcad: I could use a pointer or two when you get back
13:11.28brlcadpoolio: sure, what's up?
13:12.10pooliobrlcad: I'm trying to work out how I'm going to store the geometry trees/modify/save/crossover/etc...
13:12.51brlcadlots of ways to do it..
13:12.58poolioI see that you can use db_walk_tree to get each geometry item from a combination, but is there a way to preserve the order?
13:13.20pooliobrlcad: yes I know, I can't really decide. I was hoping to just use the internal trees and have to use say a red-black or other binary tree
13:14.03poolioMy main issue is somehow extracting the internal graph (i think it was?) into a tree form that I can easily modify
13:22.51poolioSo I basically I want to work with rt_*_internal as leaf nodes, and whatever the internal operator structure is for the other nodes
13:26.15brlcadpoolio: hmmm
13:26.35brlcadwell for starters, you hopefully saw the tree structures in raytrace.h
13:27.06poolioYeah
13:27.16brlcadrt_comb_internal's (i.e. combination objects()) have a union tree * in them (called tree) that is their hierarchy
13:27.22poolioI've looked around with db_walk_tree, but that isn't what I want, although I might write my own version
13:28.19brlcadI mean just the containers that already exist
13:28.44pooliowhat?
13:28.51brlcadunion tree * in particular, which is what most of the code uses internally for the tree structure
13:29.16pooliooh alright, and are there functions to traverse that tree other than db_walk_tree?
13:29.53brlcadyeah, there are like three or four ways to walk
13:30.26pooliooh alright. and are there implemented functions for copying subparts of one tree to another?
13:30.28brlcaddb_functree() is another
13:30.54poolioOh wow. I somehow missed db_walk.c
13:31.52brlcadyeah, that's a good file as well as db_comb.c
13:32.12brlcadroutines like db_flatten_tree() might be of use
13:32.15pooliook. So I'm going to try to keep it in a union tree and modify it from there
13:32.19pooliowhat's that do?
13:32.43brlcadflattens the tree and puts all the elements into an array
13:32.49poolioin what order?
13:33.00brlcadjeez, I don't remember :)
13:33.06pooliook ok. I'll have a looksy
13:33.21brlcadpreorder traversal if I had to guess
13:35.17poolioand it should always be tree_db_leaf in my case?
13:35.48brlcad?
13:36.08pooliothe type of node for the tree?
13:36.13poolioI think it is, oh well, I shall see.
13:37.19brlcadno no, it's still the whole tree, but stored in a (more) simple array container
13:37.38brlcadso you could iterate over all tree elements without actually worrying about traversing the tree
13:37.52pooliowait, what ar eyou referencing?
13:38.11brlcadi'm not saying that's the way to go, you'd have to figure out what the order was to see if it could be used directly for cross-over for example
13:38.26brlcadwas talking about flatten tree
13:38.34pooliooh yeah, I think I'm going to avoid using it
13:38.46poolioIt'd be easiest of I could just keep the tree structure and just work off of that
13:42.03brlcadyou should be able to I'd think
13:42.42poolioYeah thanks, I was just a bit overwhelmed :P
13:42.58brlcadcount nodes in A, count nodes in B, pick crossover points for both, swap the links in their respective union tree's, write out the new trees
13:44.33poolioI don't see why you need to count nodes, but it's simple enough
13:45.59brlcadstrictly speaking you don't
13:46.11brlcadjust one means to "pick a crossover point"
13:46.34poolioyep. hopefully I'll get a chance to try some of the many ways to do each thing
13:46.40brlcadrand from 0 to the node count or something
13:47.37pooliodoes union tree store any info about it's internal state? like # of nodes, or anything?
13:50.04brlcadno no, it's just a tree structure
13:50.37pooliodb_tree_nleaves() :D
13:51.54brlcadyep, though that's leave nodes only
13:52.00brlcads/leave/leaf/
13:53.25brlcadwould be pretty simple to add another for counting comb nodes or all nodes
13:54.18pooliowell
13:55.03poolioyeah, I'd actually probably count operators, not leaves
14:12.36pooliobrlcad: I'm gonna just get the design down on paper, I just need to clear it up in my head before I start coding. I'll be on the porch :)
14:28.56MinuteElectronbrlcad: Okay, I get it - thanks for the clarification.
14:47.29AchiestDragonhttp://www.achiestdragon.org/index.php?title=Image:Brlcad-editor.jpg&oldid=611    hmm? instructions anyone ?
14:49.10IriX64a thing of beauty :)
14:49.48IriX64as for instructions i'm outta my depth
14:51.50AchiestDragonwell i can desing qt gui's , but still to actual figure out how to get the buttons to actualy link to functioning code
14:53.20IriX64switch(msg1) { case button1:   that type of thing?
14:53.47AchiestDragoni was looking at using pyqt to conver the gui to python code so i can get to link it to other code modules
14:54.10IriX64man i know nothing about python, sorry
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14:54.37AchiestDragonbut there always seems to be eric issues in suse ,and dependancy problems with the python tools for qt
14:55.02IriX64you have your plate full then
14:56.31IriX64qt stands for?
14:56.37AchiestDragonwell as i need to reinstall i happen to have a spare 80gb sata drive , thinking of puting the alpha version of kde4 and setting it up dual boot so i can get  started at learning qt4
14:57.23dtidrowIriX64: qt is a gui library
14:57.27AchiestDragonhttp://trolltech.com/products/qt
14:57.34dtidrowyeah, that one  ;-)
14:57.38IriX64I don't play with dual boot anymore, learned my lesson
14:57.45AchiestDragonits what kde is written in
14:57.51dtidrowpure linux now, eh?  ;-)
14:58.44AchiestDragonwell  dual boot when theres no windos is not realy a problem , and with 2 diferent linux installs its not so bad
14:59.58IriX64qt=leading edge technology obviously
15:00.08IriX64i'm of the old school
15:00.27IriX64in other words i wouldn't know what to do with it :)
15:00.58IriX64by your standards i'm running a toy system
15:01.30AchiestDragonits rather than using tk
15:02.37AchiestDragonor gtk
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15:02.46IriX64_rough ride
15:02.59IriX64_i run windowsxppro with cygwin
15:03.34MinuteElectronIriX64_: You use cygwin. You wouldn't have happened to encounter this error:
15:03.36MinuteElectronconfigure: creating ./config.status
15:03.37MinuteElectron.infig.status: error: cannot find input file:
15:03.50pooliobrlcad: is there a way to extract a tree from a given rt_i?
15:03.58dtidrowI haven't tested it yet, but I'm convinced that you take a heathly hit for doing it that way
15:04.17IriX64minuteelectron ive never encountered that
15:04.27MinuteElectronok
15:04.37IriX64log in config.log
15:04.41IriX64look too
15:04.49AchiestDragonim trying to dich using any M$ product , i now only need windows for 3 applications ,,  protel dxp , autocad , and kcam (my cnc software )
15:05.25pooliobrlcad: Ah I think I found it, ugh. Need to stop asking questions and start coding :)
15:05.49MinuteElectronIriX64: ok
15:06.08IriX64AchiestDragon converting for me would be a learning curve so i get my feet wet here :)
15:07.20AchiestDragonwell have been using linux on and of since 1995 but only did a total swich on my main pc's about 4 years ago now ,
15:08.16IriX64AchiestDragon, see for you (now) it's easy for me it would be sink or swim although I admit theres rich documentation
15:08.19AchiestDragoni have one machine with win2000 on that i use for  protel dxp , and cad stuff , but do eveything else in linux
15:08.24dtidrowgotta head into work - later all...
15:09.29IriX64pays to have multiple machines, I guess but i'm not privy to the others in this house, they belong to the children :)
15:10.44IriX64I kind of like what I've got actually, unix high on windows ;)
15:11.07AchiestDragonyes , if it was not for the fact i have windows installed on one machine i would be clustering them
15:11.22MinuteElectronHa, this is useful the last line of config.log says 'configure: exit 1'. Now that would suggest success...
15:11.48IriX64errr I think it signifies an error return :)
15:11.59IriX64brb
15:13.11poolioMinuteElectron: not neccesarily
15:13.51MinuteElectronhmm...
15:14.42IriX64MinuteElectron does it say failed anywhere
15:16.29MinuteElectronyes 'configure: failed program was:
15:16.31MinuteElectron'
15:16.45MinuteElectron| /* confdefs.h.  */
15:16.50MinuteElectronhmm,
15:17.16IriX64check configure.ac
15:17.25IriX64output stuff
15:17.44MinuteElectronOk, the same failed linesaying 'confdefs.h' appears several times.
15:18.14IriX64thats normal i think depending what test it was doing
15:19.07IriX64back to my compile
15:22.07IriX64http://rafb.net/p/ZhYegJ57.html  <---anybody interested in warnings like these
15:25.39poolioIriX64: Not interested, but it's not good I think. Keep it on file :)
15:36.27IriX64:)
15:36.38IriX64i'll fix my copy :)
15:52.37IriX64AchiestDragon: Is Mr. Chips available in toy version, I know plenty of children who would have a ball with such
15:54.10pooliobrlcad: I'm trying to figure out how to extract a struct rt_db_internal and can't seem to figure out how. I've got the soltab and looked through the rt_functab but didn't see anything
16:09.46poolioOr I guess I don't really need rt_db_internal, can I just modify the soltab shape specific data and then write that?
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16:25.06pooliobrlcad: hmm, the soltab is just in memory isn't it...
16:34.23pooliomannn.... that was a huge waste of time
16:34.39pooliolunch time
16:43.47AchiestDragonwell ok , just about to start reinstalling linux see if i can cure this x problem
17:13.49IriX64got the guy who wrote hex.c to at least add his first name soproper credit is there.
17:15.57IriX64I've run it but have no need for bolts here :)
17:52.41SuperTazheh
17:53.22SuperTazby a show of hands, who thinks it'd be a nice feature if left clicking a pane in mged activated it...
17:55.27brlcadAchiestDragon: interesting gui mockup -- that entirely using qt?
17:56.17AchiestDragonusing kdevelop gui designer
17:56.29pooliobrlcad: got a couple minutes?
18:00.13brlcadpoolio: sure
18:00.32pooliobrlcad: alright, i've been struggling quite a bit this morning :P
18:01.24pooliobrlcad: So I first saw that rt_i has all the information I need, so I was looking through that, found the Regions and the soltab and stuff, but then I realized I have no clue how I can then "save" those changes back to a databse file
18:01.26brlcadno problem with that, struggling is when learning happens :P
18:01.35poolioHeh, true
18:02.03poolioSo then I was looking at trying to get the rt_db_internal structures and couldn't figure out a way to do that, but just found the wdb_import and looks like I can retrieve shapes by ID
18:02.21brlcadyep
18:02.26poolioBut the main thing was writing the changes to a database, and trying to find an internal structure I could use that is easy to work with and modify but also easy to write to a database
18:02.52poolioLike for example, the union trees, they seem easy to work with especially in just swapping pointers to do crossover, but I don't see a way to write those changed trees to a database
18:03.25poolioand with the rt_i it look slike I'd have to have re-run rt_prep for every single shape to get access to the soltab and stuff I need, and I still didn't know how to then export that
18:04.08poolioThen I thought about just using Tcl, there's routines to convert geometry to tcl, then i can modify the tcl string, and then there are routines to execute the tcl string and output it to a databse
18:04.13pooliobut that seems awfully inefficient and slow
18:04.38poolioand crossover would be a bit more though in tcl
18:05.33brlcadyou'd think it was inefficient, but in the big scheme of things it still isn't a blip
18:05.53brlcadnot that I think that's the way to do it .. just saying you shouldn't assume it's not the way because of performance
18:06.29poolioOk. but I'd still prefer working with the union trees. Those are easy to deal with, although the encapsulation of soltab is kidn fo gone
18:06.30brlcadlet me see if I can find an example that helps
18:07.12poolioYeah that'd be great, I've been browsing through a bunch of examples but I couldn't find any that would work well when directly applied. I was also thinking about keeping things in a wmember list but it looked like going wmember --> tree created a "left-heavy" tree and I had no clue what GIFT schematics were
18:07.17poolio*semantics
18:07.23pooliocouldn't find anything on google about those
18:08.14brlcadtoo generic a term to find info on gift via google ;)
18:08.23brlcadthough I'm sure there's something out there
18:08.26pooliowell I found what the acronym meant in relation to brl-cad, but still couldnt find it
18:08.41brlcadit's mostly unimportant
18:08.52poolioalright
18:09.03brlcadjust a particular way of storing geometry and fields that it needs to keep track of
18:09.06poolioalright
18:09.18brlcadlike the GIFTmater string is really just an integer material id
18:09.30pooliowell what I really needed help with was finding some way that if I modified the soltab / pointers in a union tree, a way of saving that tree to a new database, and probably copying all the primitives along with it
18:11.04poolioalso I'd like to keep the trees in memory in between generatons and not have to re-read the previous database every time
18:11.34brlcadI still have to poke around and make sure, but I can say that to write out geometry you need a primitive
18:12.00brlcadprimitives with respect to operators means writing out combinations
18:12.06poolioWell yes sorry
18:12.07brlcadcombinations are rt_comb_internal objects
18:12.51brlcadso that's your starting point no matter what in terms of saving geometry unless you recreate a hierarchy from scratch each time using mk_comb
18:13.02poolioalright. so an rt_comb_internal object
18:13.10pooliothat's created by mk_lcomb() right?
18:13.35pooliowell whatever, I can find that later
18:13.39brlcadmk_lcomb() will make a new one for you .. all the mk_ routines are part of libwdb for creating geometry
18:13.50pooliook
18:13.57brlcadyou're talking about reading an existing, though, and then writing that out, which is not mk_*
18:14.00SuperTazAchiestDragon: was that image of the editor a mockup, or does it really work?
18:14.10yukonbobpoolio: does this make sense to you?
18:14.12yukonbobhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_wrapping_algorithm
18:14.34yukonbobs/to you/for what you're doing/
18:14.34poolioyukonbob: wrong topic I think :P
18:15.04AchiestDragonSuperTaz:  its a a proper gui just no code behind the menus or buttons
18:15.12pooliobrlcad: Yes. Well I guess I can write that out with wdb_put_internal?
18:15.24SuperTazis it in Tk?
18:15.38AchiestDragonno  qt3.5
18:15.44SuperTazoh
18:15.52yukonbobAchiestDragon: do you have a screenshot posted?
18:15.52SuperTazisn't qt commercial?
18:15.57brlcadpoolio: that sounds about right, lemme look
18:16.12pooliothat needs an rt_db_internal struct
18:16.52brlcadwhich is what you get during a lookup
18:16.57brlcadamong a variety of places
18:17.04brlcadyeah, wdb_put_internal looks right
18:17.07pooliook
18:17.14AchiestDragonqt is commertial but is avalable for free use if you use it for gpl code
18:17.32poolioso basically each individual will be an rt_comb_internal, and I'll be able to modify the tree held in that struct, and write it with wdb_put_internal?
18:18.00brlcadpoolio: er, sorry, rt_db_get_internal
18:18.10brlcadwhich takes a directory pointer, which you get during lookup
18:18.35pooliothe directory pointer points to the object in the database which is our combination?
18:18.35brlcadyou can crack a rt_db_internal to get at the rt_comb_internal it contains when it's a combination
18:19.07brlcadright, just directory pointers don't actually load geometry (for performance), they load basically an index reference
18:19.14poolioyeah alright
18:19.33SuperTazachiest: but not BSD or LGPL, right?
18:19.49AchiestDragonright
18:20.04SuperTazwhat's the current license for mged?  isn't it LGPL/BSD hybrid?
18:20.21AchiestDragonbut it would not stop a gpl gui frontend beeing written
18:20.28SuperTaz(looks good, btw)
18:20.31SuperTazno, it wouldn't
18:20.48brlcadnot a hybrid, it's lgpl
18:21.02SuperTazif you build a 4 pane view into it, it'll be even better
18:21.25pooliobrlcad: or I could use wdb_import to get the rt_db_internal right?
18:21.27brlcadbsd is the documentation, build system, and data files
18:21.33SuperTazI'm pondering making some similar changes to mged itself
18:21.52brlcadpoolio: probably, I think it just does the two-step for you
18:21.59poolioyeah
18:22.27poolioand the idb_ptr is goign to be the pointer to the rt_comb_internal ?
18:22.33poolioYeah, looks that way, sweet :)
18:23.07brlcadyou can access it directly, but I believe there's a routine you should call to crack it :)
18:23.24pooliowait, what do you mean?
18:23.37poolioThe main issue I was having this morning was all the circularly linked pointers to every which structure
18:23.44SuperTazI'd really like to get a context menu working, get click to activate working, and get the console at the bottom of the window...those 3 would make mged a lot more user-friendly :)
18:24.41pooliobrlcad: also, is there a way to duplicate the rt_db_internal structure?
18:25.13brlcadSuperTaz: if you find the code that the menu calls when you ask it to activate a pane, you should be able to add that to the window bindings
18:25.33SuperTazI'm working on it...I've found the code already
18:25.38brlcadah, sweet
18:25.42SuperTazI'm just trying to find the window bindings :)
18:25.50SuperTazand then figure out how they work :)
18:31.14brlcadif you do, would you let me know?
18:33.03brlcadAchiestDragon: that mockup image is actually kinda familiar .. did you do that several months ago?
18:33.30AchiestDragonno , i did it today
18:35.30brlcadhrm, okay
18:35.34brlcaddeja vu
18:37.09SuperTazheh...I'll let you know once I figure it out
18:37.25SuperTazI spent an hour last night learning how activation works...it's really pretty simple
18:37.45SuperTazI just haven't had any time to look at the bindings :)
18:57.35poolio<PROTECTED>
18:57.40poolioerrr oops
19:00.56brlcadMinuteElectron: apache changes made
19:25.51brlcadshould check for includes now
19:38.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: thanks
19:41.43SuperTazblah
19:41.59SuperTazI'm trying to see if eclipse will play nice as a tcl/tk editor
19:42.19SuperTazI still haven't figured out where the bindings are
19:42.43SuperTazthough I'm learning more and more about how mged does what it does
19:45.14SuperTazI think I understand why I'm not finding this stuff
19:46.36brlcadMinuteElectron: not to interfere, but I noticed the menu and was poking on some values in the style :)
19:46.57brlcadlooking good
19:47.00brlcadreally good
19:47.18brlcadgetting excited to start populating it
19:47.27MinuteElectrondw, I don't mind
19:48.16MinuteElectronI just need to finish the navigation, make some general styling (e.g. the headers and hyperlinks) and add some padding to the main content area. Then it will be good to go,
19:49.43poolioMinuteElectron/brlcad: link?
19:49.51MinuteElectronhttp://my.brlcad.org
19:50.06pooliooh, it's already _there_ :P
19:50.52MinuteElectronYeah, installed MediaWiki and Drupal on the server last night and copied the theme across.
19:53.41SuperTazwell, the header is there, at least :)
19:54.09SuperTazlooks good
19:54.57MinuteElectronthxxs
19:55.04MinuteElectronmost of the work was brlcad though.
19:55.21SuperTazahhh, well, it still looks good :)
19:55.35brlcadwas not, I just photoshopped a little -- that's the easy part
19:55.44SuperTazof course, the rest of the template still need to be done :)
19:55.44brlcadturning that into css is the bear
19:55.50brlcadpoolio: keep whining :)
19:56.08brlcadbut that won't go so far, effort speaks louder than words :)
19:56.22brlcadmock up a better menu :)
19:56.43SuperTazI won't complain about the navbar, simply because I haven't seen what the body is going to look like
19:56.57pooliobrlcad: Yeah, I'm kind of busy ;)
19:57.12SuperTazonce I see the content area, I'll weigh in on design ;)
19:57.24SuperTazbut the header still looks good ;)
19:57.26brlcadme too, and I like it .. so without something better, it's the winner
19:58.12brlcadSuperTaz: quite true
19:58.23brlcadthe header is only one piece of a much bigger design
19:58.41brlcadthere's still the overall look/feel, how blocks look, the content area, the footer
19:58.46SuperTazyes, and I'm not going to judge until I've seen more...then I'll weigh in on usability, aesthetics, etc.
19:59.46SuperTazdespite popular belief, aesthetics are a significant part of usability, at least if you evaluate it based on cognition
20:00.44SuperTazand since you want people to be able to navigate the site to get their answers, it needs to be aesthetically pleasing to help them do a better job of navigating
20:24.45MinuteElectronw00t look at nav everyone!!!
20:26.12brlcadnice, got the corner :)
20:26.33brlcadyour color is off just a hair :)
20:27.09MinuteElectronwhat?
20:27.28MinuteElectronno it isn't
20:28.43MinuteElectronheh
20:29.44brlcadyou see it?
20:29.57MinuteElectronno
20:30.48brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/~sean/hair.png
20:31.12MinuteElectronHmm, not getting that on my end,
20:31.25MinuteElectronMaybe my monitor doesn't have enough colors.
20:31.28brlcadthen the png is probably missing gamma correction or something
20:31.40MinuteElectronHow many bits is your monitor?
20:32.45brlcad32-bit
20:33.53MinuteElectronhmm
20:33.57MinuteElectronwhich browser?
20:37.20*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon_ (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
20:38.47brlcadsafari
20:41.22MinuteElectronHmm, this is very odd. What screen resolution are you on?
20:42.04brlcad1680x1050
20:42.51brlcadit's almost guaranteed just a gamma issue
20:43.09brlcadfirefox isn't the best at applying gamma correction
20:43.18MinuteElectronI have no idea, I also have no idea what gamma correction is. When you get a moment would you kindly add it to the image 'corner.png' please. thanks.
20:43.32brlcadheh :)
20:47.09Laniakeaissues with gamma correction are guranteed as long as people stay ignorant having no clue what the digital numbers stored in their files are supposed to mean
20:47.16AchiestDragonwell sort of resolved the x problem and mged works fine , it seems that the g200 quad head card is not quite fully supported in x , so just using 2 monitors and the dual head g550
20:49.00LaniakeaThe picture hair.png has no gamma chunk present, so the gamma is assumed to be 0.454545
20:49.16AchiestDragondown side smaller desktop size  only 3200 * 1200
20:49.22LaniakeaHowever it has an ICC profile
21:02.54MinuteElectronbrlcad: I think there is a problem, the htaccess file in /d/ isn't working - perhaps you could chown the /d/ directory to www - I seam to be unable to.
21:05.44MinuteElectronI have to go, be back tomorrow.
21:11.21brlcadalright, I'll look at ait
21:11.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: attempting to debug edge_check code; added return states for edge check; removed some dead code
21:13.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: fix bug where search domains are unordered; tried 'adaptive' chord sampling
21:15.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: played with the chord tolerance and derivative tolerance (need to change it to tangent!)
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00:03.36*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:17.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewcheck.c: quell more compilation warnings, thx IriX64
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06:19.37MinuteElectronbrlcad: Any luck?
06:20.12brlcadMinuteElectron: hm?
06:20.34brlcadoh, /d, right
06:22.54MinuteElectronyeah
06:23.14MinuteElectronAlso /w
06:37.50MinuteElectronI have to go, bbl.
06:43.25brlcadshould be fixed now
06:43.36brlcadthat directory index was screwing up their index
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07:42.07*** part/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru)
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12:47.44pooliomornin
13:08.21brlcadhowdy
13:11.26pooliohopefully today will be more productive than the last
13:15.41AchiestDragonhi
13:20.07pooliobrlcad: do Ineed to worry about backwards compatibility?
13:34.36pooliobrlcad: also, if I call rt_db_put_internal on a combination, will all elements of that combination be copied or do I need to copy those by hand?
13:35.32brlcadbackwards compatibility with what?
13:35.44pooliobrlcad: previous database versions
13:35.54brlcadoh, you mean v4
13:35.57poolioyeah
13:35.59brlcadno, screw that
13:36.03pooliohurrah
13:36.03poolioalso
13:36.34brlcadas for rt_db_put_internal .. that writes out one object
13:36.39poolioif I want to insert an internal db object from one database into another, do I call rt_db_put_internal with the db_i and directory of the database I want it to be inserted into and the internal object of the object I want insreted?
13:36.41brlcadone node of the hiearchy
13:36.56pooliobrlcad: well, it writes out the combination right?
13:37.01brlcadright
13:37.20brlcadbut a combination is a name, and references to a handful of objects with operators
13:37.21pooliois the right to the inserting an object or that it's a combination?
13:37.39pooliobrlcad: Alright, so I just need to throw in a db_walk routine that will copy over each solid?
13:37.57brlcadif the other db doesn't have the objects below that hierarchy, yes
13:38.48poolioand what about carrying internal objects between different databases?
13:39.17brlcade.g. consider the simple tree A1 -> B1 u C1   B1 -> D1 u E1   C1, D1, & E1 are all prims  
13:39.36pooliobrlcad: Yes I understand all that
13:40.11poolioand B1 would also have to be copied?
13:40.14brlcadif you swap out B1 with a new B2 that looks like B2 -> F2 u A1   .. you'd have to also write out F2 separately but not A1
13:40.22poolioyep
13:43.17brlcadso yeah, you'll want to do a db_functree on the hierarchy, seeing if you need to copy over any of the nodes
13:43.27brlcadsubhierarchy
13:51.47poolioalright
14:22.23MinuteElectronbrlcad: Thanks.
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14:46.26*** join/#brlcad TME (n=tmdelell@angmar.ornl.gov)
14:46.53TMEbrlcad: TME here again, got things basically working, I have two questions:
14:47.17TME1) what are the differences between regions and combinations
14:47.51TME(It seems that combinations are a superset of regions, ie a region is a combination) is this correct?
14:48.30TME2) I have to do point queries, ie find a cell (region) given (x,y,z)  I am doing this with shootray and ap.a_onehit = 1
14:48.36TMEIs this the best way?
14:49.12TMEThanks for any help.  If you want (or care ;)) I can send you my C++ class that does these basic tasks using brlcad
14:49.51TMESo far, the software is working great, I'm just not sure if I am implementing things in the optimal way
14:50.16TMEHowever, this is a prototype proof-of-principle task, so we should be able to provide some resources for you to look things
14:50.27TMEover if everything goes through all right
15:21.30pooliobrlcad: is there a way to rename a shape without changing it's name in a tree using that shape?
16:46.39*** join/#brlcad mec_guy (n=chatzill@59.95.35.161)
16:47.08mec_guyhello world
16:48.20mec_guydoes anybody know of a chat room 4 mech engg and also d server
17:14.46archivisttry full english words so we can direct you
17:22.59mec_guycan you tell me of ca channel for Mechanical Engineers and I-DEAS users and also the server on which it is hosted?
17:24.29archivistthis chan has a few mechanical engineers and so does #emc also on freenode
17:25.01brlcadTME: yes, regions are a subset of combinations
17:25.12brlcadcode-wise, they're just a flag set on regions
17:25.23*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177879018.dsl.bell.ca)
17:25.27brlcadbah I mean code-wise, they're just a flag set on combinations that makes them a region
17:26.06brlcadwhat that means in practice though, by making a region, is that the entire hierarchy below is a given material
17:26.57brlcadthat's where it goes from being just a "collection" or "shape" to being actually solid material with interaction properties, issues with overlaps and effects on the shotline returned
17:27.59TMEbrlcad: I noticed that db_flags = 6 for regions, is it the same for combinations?
17:29.04brlcadif you walk the DAG (directed acyclic graph) for the CSG hierarchy, there should be one and only one region along any traversal down the hierarchy used as a positive shape (i.e. a union, it's okay to have other regions underneath that are subtracted)
17:29.56brlcadin CAD parlance, regions loosely correlate with parts, combinations/groups above the region level would generally be called assemblies
17:33.58brlcadTME: db_flags?
17:34.11brlcadoh, you mean like db_get_internal_flags()?
17:34.27brlcadno, not the smae
17:34.32brlcadthat's a bitmask
17:34.49brlcadsee raytrace.h, look for DIR_COMB
17:35.00brlcadregions are DIR_COMB | DIR_REGION
17:35.09brlcadcombinations are just DIR_COMB  (i.e. 2)
17:35.31Laniakeabrlcad: is it possible to design architecture in BRL-CAD?
17:35.56brlcadshould use the symbolic instead of the number too, even though it likely wouldn't change unless the major number changed (release 8.*)
17:36.11brlcadLaniakea: sure it's possible
17:36.20brlcaddepends on the type of building and the design purpose
17:36.48Laniakeabrlcad: how do I place say 19 cylindrical pillars into a ring?
17:37.07Laniakeain a ring
17:37.18brlcadpattern tool
17:37.21brlcadTools menu
17:37.23Laniakeagood
17:37.32brlcadthere's a tab for cylindrical
17:38.15TMEbrlcad: sorry I meant d_flags (a member of struct directory)
17:38.16Laniakeabrlcad: "Build pattern tool"?
17:38.18brlcadi'm not sure I'd want to design a building from scratch with brl-cad, but if you have an existing design in mind or floor plans, or a physical building, it's usually straightforward
17:38.23brlcadLaniakea: yeah
17:38.49brlcadTME: yeah, the same holds then
17:38.59mec_guyHow does BRL-CAD compare with I-DEAS or Catia?
17:39.27Laniakeabrlcad: not very intuitive menu
17:39.52Laniakeabrlcad: Base Center it's probably x y z but it could be stated explicitly
17:39.58Laniakea(like it's not x,y,z)
17:40.09brlcadwant to fix it? :)
17:40.11LaniakeaNot explained the difference between object and base
17:40.24LaniakeaAngles in radians or degrees?
17:40.34LaniakeaFunction of source and replacement string
17:40.34brlcadI believe they are in degrees
17:40.50LaniakeaWhat "Starting Height
17:40.51TMEbrlcad: see http://pastebin.ca/601708 for what I'm trying to do
17:40.53Laniakea" means
17:40.59Laniakeais it height of something or height as position?
17:41.07LaniakeaHeights? What's that?
17:41.12LaniakeaLists? What lists?
17:41.25brlcadthe pattern tool was a quick hack, I take no claim or responsibility, but it does work once you learn it (and it's covered/explained in the advanced tutorial)
17:41.39Laniakeais the advanced tutorial online?
17:41.48brlcadyep, vol III or IV iirc
17:41.50brlcadon the main website
17:41.57TMEI want to walk the directory and load all of the regions usin grt_gettree
17:42.01LaniakeaLike it's not necessary to put help into the window but the labels should contain some self-explanatory hints
17:42.21Laniakeayou need to get some person who has no idea about BRL-CAD give it MGED and ask where he has no idea
17:42.21brlcadLaniakea: it's a cylinder pattern, so if you just want one level, the height is something small enough so it only iterates once
17:42.24Laniakeaand then add the missing clues
17:42.37LaniakeaDevelopers are generally clueless about usability since they know everything by heart
17:42.44LaniakeaGet a guy who rides a snowboard and smokes pot.
17:42.51brlcadsure
17:42.55brlcadi agree
17:42.56LaniakeaHe'll be excellent in that
17:43.05brlcadthe guys that worked on it weren't writing for general populace
17:43.07LaniakeaYou are army right?
17:43.12brlcadthey needed a pattern for something they were doing
17:43.19LaniakeaBorrow some private with big muscles and empty head.
17:43.20brlcadthey wrote the interface, it was slapped in
17:43.34LaniakeaNo I don't mean just the pattern tool now
17:43.39brlcadI know you don't
17:43.47brlcadbut the same holds for much of the interface
17:43.48LaniakeaI have the same problem on Ronja. I need "common people" to fix the usability.
17:44.29brlcadthe interface wasn't designed for public use, or even ease of use -- it was written to be powerful with much expert knowledge on hand to instruct on how to use it
17:44.34LaniakeaI have the first Ronja piece which was designed in BRL-CAD completely virtually and only then a prototype manufactured.
17:44.55LaniakeaFree software is however always for public use
17:44.57brlcadnot a great approach for software design in general, leaves much polish work missing
17:45.25LaniakeaOr of course it doesn't have to be, but it's a waste of a great potential if the public is excluded from it's usage.
17:45.39LaniakeaI don't think the approach is a problem
17:45.39brlcadno, that's not the intent of course
17:45.46LaniakeaAll you need it some kind of UI refactoring
17:45.48brlcadit needs to be made better
17:45.54brlcadneed people to make it better though
17:45.56Laniakeaadd deg here, x,y,z there
17:46.02brlcadotherwise you're arguing and complaining with yourself
17:46.11LaniakeaDo you think I should try to compile the newest brl-cad? ;-)
17:46.37brlcadsure, don't see why not?
17:47.13brlcadthat's not going to make this particular issue any better, that code hasn't changed
17:47.15LaniakeaStill the old website?
17:47.24brlcadfor now yes
17:47.37brlcadMinuteElectron's been making great progress on the new site
17:47.47LaniakeaAny estimate when the new one is online?
17:47.57brlcadnot really, it's on-going
17:48.10MinuteElectrona couple of days and the design will be complete - will still need to add tons of content though.
17:48.26brlcadTME: erm, you know that db_walk_tree has a callback for regions?
17:48.52brlcadyep, tons of content
17:48.59brlcadway more than is currently on the website
17:49.11IriX64Laniakea: this what your talking about? http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2   patterntool (i'm trying to learn)
17:49.11brlcadwill be *really* nice to start populating the wiki
17:49.29MinuteElectronafk
17:50.03brlcad~afk
17:50.03ibotsomebody said afk was Away From Keyboard
17:50.13TMEbrlcad: haven't seen db_walk_tree yet can I use it to load objects into a rt pointer?
17:50.48brlcadTME: I believe the answer is yes, what do you mean by load objects into a rt pointer?
17:50.58brlcada struct rt_i raytrace instance pointer?
17:51.07IriX64thought afk meant a funny kind and ask meant a sad kind :)
17:51.22TMETME: I want to populate a struct rt_i with regions so that I can raytrace through them in my transport code
17:51.26brlcadhehe
17:51.37brlcadtalking to yourself now, eh? :)
17:51.44TMEoops, got confused
17:51.56TMEnot the first time
17:52.02brlcad:)
17:52.31TMEI've got a snippet of what I'm currently doing (it works, but may not be optimal/portable)
17:52.51TMEhttp://pastebin.ca/601708
17:52.54IriX64:)
17:54.25brlcadTME: that's not too shabby
17:54.46brlcadnot much different with the tree walker, just "sorta" does that loop for you
17:55.02TMEbrlcad: cool
17:55.11brlcadyour loop doesn't account for other things like deleted geometry, hidden geometry, and other issues
17:55.28brlcadas it will just pull up everything that's a region
17:55.36TMEbrlcad: right now I'm focusing on ray-tracing through regions
17:55.42TMEas those are the problems I have now
17:55.57brlcadwhat is this problem domain, if I may ask
17:56.15TMEbrlcad: want to do radiation transport through objects
17:56.17brlcadsounds interesting, and perhaps something I may already know about ..
17:56.25brlcadah, yes, you guys :)
17:56.39TMEbrlcad: yes, Jeff Johnson was your contact here
17:56.43brlcadI believe Lee met with you guys
17:56.50TMEbrlcad: that's right
17:57.11brlcadI heard about the problem a little bit, but didn't dive too far into the details
17:57.22TMEbrlcad: this is currently a prototype for proof-of-principel
17:57.29TMEprinciple, pebkac
17:57.44brlcadcool
17:58.00brlcadwell, glad to help even before I knew who you were ;)
17:58.09TMEbrlcad: I'm hoping we can get some support for you guys to look over what I've got so far
17:58.19brlcadhopefully can get a successful proof going, really interesting project
17:58.23Laniakeabrlcad: I think brl-cad is excellent for architecture since it's a solid modelling
17:58.27TMEgot it going
17:58.37TMEthing works so far, but may not be ideal
17:58.43Laniakeaand architecture is full of holes and complicated interactions of basic elementary solids
18:00.02TMEbrlcad: in any case, I'd be happy to send you my interface to BRLCAD if you're interested...
18:02.47TMEbrlcad: is it better to do if (db->d_flags & (DIR_COMB | DIR_REGION))
18:35.50*** part/#brlcad mec_guy (n=chatzill@59.95.35.161)
18:38.55pooliobrlcad: I had to use db_walk_tree instead of functree becasue I needed to modify the union tree, oh well
18:58.57IriX64opennurbs_curve.h (#include <assert.h> should fix it)
19:05.49IriX64did :)
19:11.57brlcadpoolio: you could have passed/stashed the union as the callback data, but whatever if it works it works ;)
19:12.03brlcadthose two go hand in hand
19:13.29brlcadLaniakea: I'd agree, excellent in terms of representation -- needs more in terms of supporting design from scratch though (interface-wise)
19:14.35brlcadTME: I am certainly interested -- and don't be shy if you need to make changes to librt to support your application or if you have other questions on the API
19:15.46brlcadcommit access is open to just about anyone that has an interest in improving the code
19:16.07brlcadand yes, is is better to and/or the flags against the symbols instead of using the direct values
19:21.58IriX64would there be any interest I wonder, in a build from unix code that will run on windows?
19:42.07TMEbrlcad: I've basically got 1 class that does the stuff I'm talking about, I can pastebin it or send it
19:42.20TMEbrlcad: its not large, so let me know (if you want it ;))
19:44.29IriX64if there is an interest, it works with xwin32 too (thats with the cygwin root renamed so as to break cygwin) :)
19:46.45MinuteElectroninterest here
19:47.37IriX64really, I have a may 6 build thats fully functional can archive the whole tree and deliver where you say
19:47.59IriX64can even put the xwin32 setup package in it
19:48.32IriX6430 minutes per run unless you buy it, or a one moth eval (and no im not affiliated with them)
19:50.21MinuteElectron30 minutes per a run? where is their open source spirit?
19:50.25IriX64need windows 2000 and up though :)
19:51.09IriX64no idea
19:51.22IriX64its commercial
19:51.32IriX64me too
19:51.35IriX64works fine
19:51.52IriX64never tried vista
19:52.17IriX64works with winaxe too
19:52.38IriX64should work with any decent x server
19:54.42IriX64If you're interested, i'll pack it up (I charge nothing this is a labor of love)
19:56.58MinuteElectrondw
19:57.13IriX64?
19:57.18MinuteElectronI am waaaay to busy at the moment/
19:57.33MinuteElectronIt would be another thing to distract me, maybe in a few weeks.
19:57.51IriX64heh all right, tell me do you have bz2 extraction tools for windows?
19:58.37MinuteElectronyeah - 7zip
19:58.45IriX64thankyou
19:59.53IriX64I'll return to my compile :)
20:02.26MinuteElectron:)
20:39.16IriX64743mg archive, how am i suppsed to spread that around?
20:41.32IriX642.19gb uncompressed, guess i shouldn't have compiled static :)
20:44.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: debugging closeTo(); changed edge miss tolerance
20:46.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad.hpp: fix bug with brep surface orientation; fix bug with destructor (don't free already freed memory)
20:47.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: fix bug with brep surface orientation; fix bug with destructor (don't free already freed memory); fix bug with face orientation
20:49.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: debug edge_check routine; simplify to closeness check (remove left-of check)
20:51.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: create new closeTo/search implementations to test a point instead of a ray; still debugging it
20:52.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: add closeTo declaration for points; fix typo bugs in Sample class
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03:29.55brlcadhappy 4th for the USians
04:15.04poolioahhhhh
04:15.05pooliohappy 4th
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10:25.59thing0hey guys
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13:40.17``Erikwell, it's the fourth for everyone... :D but happy independence day, all you damn american infidels
13:41.30archivistgrmbl us brits are working
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14:37.06MinuteElectronwtf is vim's problem? you push the backspace key in insert mode and it outputs 'wuff wuff' - some people may have tons of time to mess about with silly things like that, but others have things to do.
14:39.53MinuteElectronOk, maybe it wasn't vim.
14:43.14brlcadMinuteElectron: are you in screen?
14:43.20brlcadwuff wuff sounds like screen
14:44.00brlcadit prints that as the "bell character" since it can't readily beep
14:45.10MinuteElectronyeah, it was screen
14:45.26MinuteElectronbrlcad: Why is the server type set to 'a monkey hitting...'?
14:46.48brlcadfor a variety of reasons
14:47.05MinuteElectronHmm, ok.
14:47.06brlcadbut mostly because it's something different
14:47.58MinuteElectronFine, just wondered - probably won't cause any trouble but Drupal says it might (since it cannot tell what server it is running on). I guess it doesn't matter.
14:48.25brlcadyeah, it won't cause any trouble for drupal
14:48.44MinuteElectronok
14:49.05brlcadone of the points for changing it is so external apps can't readily tell what server is running
14:49.27MinuteElectronI see - more security mesaures.
14:49.30brlcadaside from just being kinda funny/curious/interesting
14:49.50brlcadone of about a hundred things like that on the server
14:50.43brlcadpwd
14:50.54MinuteElectron~pwd
14:50.55ibotit has been said that pwd is $pwd
14:51.06brlcad:)
14:51.11brlcad~ww
14:51.12ibotWrong window pansie
14:51.30brlcadibot_: be nice
14:58.00MinuteElectronhmm, vim is still being an arse.
14:59.23MinuteElectronOh dear,
14:59.53MinuteElectronemacs wants to save its config file to /home/MinuteElectron - that appears to be my pwd, ha /me needs to fix that.
15:01.34brlcadwow, how'd you do that?
15:01.52MinuteElectronoh dear
15:01.55MinuteElectronit still wants to
15:02.13MinuteElectronbrlcad: I have no idea, I still havem't fixed the problem though.
15:02.33MinuteElectronI tried setting PWD in .profile but that didn't work
15:02.48brlcadyou shouldn't need to do that
15:03.19MinuteElectronBut when I type pwd I get '/home/MinuteElectron'.
15:05.11MinuteElectronBut wait, /home is a symlink to /usr/home so it should just work
15:05.21MinuteElectronhow odd
15:05.35MinuteElectronbut it also makes emacs unusable as I keep getting a bell message
15:06.12brlcadwhere are you?
15:06.34MinuteElectronwhat do you mean/
15:06.35brlcadwhat's the bell message for?
15:06.41MinuteElectronemacs
15:06.53brlcadno, i mean why is it giving you a bell?
15:07.10brlcadwhat's it trying to do that's failing?
15:07.10MinuteElectronbecause it can't write to /home/MinuteElectron/.emacs.d
15:07.23brlcadnow that's odd
15:07.30brlcadyou should be able to write to that
15:07.38MinuteElectronI presume it is because I am sudo www
15:07.46brlcadoooh
15:07.57brlcadrun emacs as yourself first
15:08.01MinuteElectronok
15:08.12brlcadsudo retains the caller's ident
15:08.20brlcads/ident/environment
15:14.39MinuteElectronha, emacs is so much easier to use than vim
15:14.56brlcadindeed
15:15.28MinuteElectronWonders how he actually managed to use vim.
15:16.17MinuteElectronbrlcad: Is tan an alright hyperlink color, i used it to match the navigation bar.
15:29.46brlcadtry FBD079
15:32.45MinuteElectronok
15:33.08MinuteElectronbrlcad: I was already using that.
15:34.04brlcadmm, minor dyslexia? :)
15:34.38brlcadlook closely
15:35.27MinuteElectronshit
15:36.40MinuteElectronYeah, that looks better.
15:37.23brlcadas good as it's gonna get at least with that nav bar ;)
15:37.38brlcadi shoulda used a more gamma/websafe color
15:37.50brlcadgood enough, though
15:37.57MinuteElectronok
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15:43.13brlcadthere we go, ffc757, that's the gamma-corrected value that it *should* be (at least for my system) :)
15:43.56MinuteElectronYeah, perfect.
15:47.41MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can a no-reply e-mail address be used? e.g. no-reply@my.brlcad.org
15:48.52brlcadsure you can use noreply at brlcad.org
15:49.19MinuteElectroncool, thanks
15:50.50brlcadwebmaster @ can also be used
15:51.02brlcadif you want it to go somewhere
15:51.05MinuteElectronok
15:52.08brlcadthere are also support, bugs, and dev emails depending on the purpose as well as a few others
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16:48.45yukonbobwhen I go to "Request New Password", the links in the tabs ("Create new account", "Log in") are almost illegible as tan-on-white...
16:53.25MinuteElectronit is not finished
16:53.31MinuteElectronI am aware of such problems
16:53.41MinuteElectronI still have to add styling to the tabs
16:53.55MinuteElectronand make the boxes go on the right
16:54.01yukonbob:) -- didn't figure that you were finished, but didn't know if you were aware...
16:54.04MinuteElectronthanks for the info anyway
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16:57.29TDK_KNIGHThello
16:57.48TDK_KNIGHT?
17:00.39yukonbobhello TDK_KNIGHT
17:01.37TDK_KNIGHThi
17:01.49TDK_KNIGHTi'm looking for a linux cad promgram...
17:02.30TDK_KNIGHTi'm runing fc4 on a am2 3500+ with 2gig of ram
17:03.04yukonbob"cad" in what sense? What are you trying to do with it? BRLCAD is a constructive solid geometry modeller...
17:03.07poolioTry BRL-CAD. brlcad.org
17:03.30TDK_KNIGHTlooking for somthing like autocad lol
17:04.23TDK_KNIGHTdon't work
17:06.15TDK_KNIGHTi see bocad but their site is useles
17:27.01MinuteElectronlol
17:27.05MinuteElectronhow ironic
17:27.58TDK_KNIGHThuh?
17:28.34MinuteElectronI am currently redesigning the BRL-CAD website and it will soon have more contnet.
17:28.34MinuteElectron*content
17:28.36TDK_KNIGHTo ok
17:28.40TDK_KNIGHTlol
17:28.48TDK_KNIGHTyea it looks prity well oldschool lol
17:28.52TDK_KNIGHTright now
17:29.41IriX64should have bookmarked your site :)
17:32.10MinuteElectronIriX64: Who's site?
17:32.18IriX64yours :)
17:32.31MinuteElectronhttp://my.brlcad.org
17:32.39IriX64isn't drupal you ?
17:32.43IriX64oh
17:32.55MinuteElectronhttp://82.7.33.27/
17:33.29IriX64nice
17:33.44MinuteElectron<3's his static IP address.
17:33.54MinuteElectronno, http://82.7.33.28/
17:33.56MinuteElectronwrong number
17:34.06IriX64can i simply bookmark my.brlcad.org for now?
17:34.10MinuteElectronyeah
17:34.14IriX64good
17:34.31MinuteElectron:D
17:34.35IriX64:)
17:36.24IriX64should i wait to create an account :)
17:37.25TDK_KNIGHTmin thats looking good
17:38.14MinuteElectronIriX64: Please wait, thanks.
17:38.20IriX64sure
17:41.02IriX64How well does the gui work in brlcad?
18:05.44AchiestDragon127.0.0.1 :)
18:09.53IriX64:0.0     :)
18:11.28IriX64compiling 7.8.4, several things missing in ogl support (I'm not gonna write them) :)
18:11.52AchiestDragon\ >(O..O)< /
18:12.31IriX64don't know irc lingo like that sorry.
18:12.54AchiestDragon\ >(O..O)< /  = thows hands up in air
18:13.02IriX64thankyou
18:13.25IriX64which is takes keyboard in hand :)
18:35.35IriX64ok... it built, it's up.. now I guess it's time to peruse the docs.
18:40.08IriX64just playing around with the gui, raytraced havoc, toodles must run
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19:21.58SuperTazanything exciting?
19:22.30SuperTazI suppose not
19:22.38SuperTaz:P
19:41.15poolioerrr oh well.
19:41.19poolioit's a holiday :), i'm away
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21:00.14shivai just installed brlcad on my ubuntu box; what is the best way to get started?
21:00.31shiva(I have a ug nx background)
21:19.54AchiestDragonopen a console window  , cd/usr/blrcad/bin    then ./mged
21:20.15AchiestDragonhopeless he left
21:20.53AchiestDragonmay as well talk to the chan wall
21:44.03SuperTazSyx0by
21:44.16SuperTazdfku99
21:44.23SuperTazdammit
21:44.35SuperTaztoo much crap on my desk
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00:13.52*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177878796.dsl.bell.ca)
00:15.15IriX64sean@crew.local ? who's he :)
00:19.47pooliohmmph?
00:19.51pooliobrlcad = sean
00:22.07IriX64does good work
00:22.20IriX64the gui is nice
00:27.10IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2   (gui.png)
00:34.53IriX64back to work... ciao
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13:01.02pooliomornin
14:09.44pooliobrlcad: is it OK if I just cut-paste and modify the db_functree code? there's just a few things I need that would be a pain to do using the already established walking methods
14:16.48pooliobrlcad: ah wow. I wish I'd found g-xxx earlier :\
14:31.20poolioerr crud. I still don't see how to get this working without re-recursing the tree. I thought db_tree_state would have the union tree from the combination but nope...
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16:10.22``Erikg-xxx is a bit of a train-wreck
16:14.18poolio``Erik: not as something to use, but as an example
16:14.29poolio``Erik: I've ended up just tearing up db_functree to suit my needs
16:14.33``Erikit has deprecated and superfluous crap in it :/
16:15.04pooliohmm, oh well, i ended up not using it
16:15.33poolioI've been in a rut the past couple days, I keep being wishy washy about how I want to traverse trees and copy them and all and I have like 20 routines that kind of work and none that entirely do
16:15.33``ErikI'm in missouri right now, but if you want, I get back to md on the 10th and can cull down some stuff for you
16:15.52poolio``Erik: Nah It's alright, I'll have it worked out before then
16:15.59``Erikor, if you can figure out how things work, *shrug* :) I did a lot of kinda reverse engineering and lots of question asking before getting a solid grasp of that side
16:16.00pooliohopefully by the end of today
16:16.31``Erik<-- is finishing up a quick lunch before heading to lake ozark for jetskiing with the gf's mom and sister
16:16.39poolioOh wow, enjoy man :)
16:17.08``Eriknot keen on the jetski, but supposedly her mom is a lush with a well stocked bar and a pool table... O:-)
16:17.10poolio``Erik: you work up at post?
16:17.24poolioHeh, jetski sounds awesome. pollutes but also lots of fun
16:17.28``Erikyeah, upstairs from brlcad, in the same office as jra/daytona
16:17.34poolioah cool
16:18.01``Eriksome people are under the impression that I'm going to finish the metaball stuff I wrote into BRL-CAD
16:18.03``Erik:>
16:18.08pooliohehe
16:18.10pooliowell?
16:19.49``Erikall that's left for full functionality is mb->nurb and mb->tri
16:20.34``Eriknurb support is changing, and triangles might warrant a full marching cubes thing, which is a major thing that many things could use....
16:27.20poolioeek
16:27.23poolioyeah, good luck
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16:42.29IriX64Do you support Cygwin builds here?
16:44.07IriX64I mean usage wise.
16:45.11IriX64ahh I see, please do a version on me.
16:47.27pooliohmm? hi IriX64
16:47.39IriX64hi
16:47.41poolioibot_: seen brlcad?
16:48.53IriX64channel troubles?
16:49.03poolioerr no.
16:49.09poolioJust mental troubles
16:49.17brlcadpoolio: gimme about an hour :)
16:49.43IriX64heh ever pushing :)
16:49.44brlcadunless it'll actually take less than 20 seconds
16:50.00brlcadibot_: botsnack
16:52.37pooliobrlcad: yeah no worries, ta ta.
16:53.32IriX64is this a help channel or developer channel (just so I know where I am)?
16:58.41poolioIriX64: some of both
17:04.28IriX64thankyou poolio
17:08.33IriX64friend of mine gave me hex.c for producing bolts to the pitch you specify (actually produces a .g file for brlcad) can be found at http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2
17:37.14IriX64I take it it would be bad form to talk about where you are in the compile process :)
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17:48.07IriX64make
17:48.25IriX64bbl8r
18:50.06brlcadpoolio: back, so feel free to fire over any q's
18:50.20brlcadand yeah, find to copy off functree's guts to suit if neede
18:50.25brlcads/find/fine/
18:51.34pooliobrlcad: alright
18:52.49pooliobrlcad: My main issue this morning was rt_db_put_internal was corrupting the database. Not sure why and I know you'd need code to test it / debug, but I'll get back to you later if I can't get it working
18:53.25brlcadyeah, that would be good to figure out, regardless of the cause
18:54.04pooliothere was no error on reading, and no error on writing, but the database that was output was ... corrupted
18:54.52pooliobrlcad: also, montly reports? is there something I need to be doing for that?
18:55.17poolioInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...db5_crack_disk_header() bad magic1 -- database has become corrupted expected x76, got x0
18:55.20pooliodb5_get_raw_internal_fp(): object_length=0 is too short, database is corrupted
18:59.57brlcadsounds like a zero-length file
19:00.25poolioI can send you the source code / db file
19:00.25brlcadahh, stupid private message filtering
19:00.36*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
19:35.09pooliobrlcad: how could rt_db_put_internal corrupt a database if the internal object isn't corrupt? I can't figure it out :\
20:09.33pooliobrlcad: oh my god
20:09.37pooliobrlcad: i'm gonna go cry now
20:09.47pooliobrlcad: "rm *;o" instead of rm *.o
20:09.48pooliowow
20:10.41MinuteElectronpoolio: What happend?
20:10.49MinuteElectronYou just erased everything on your system?
20:10.49poolioMinuteElectron: typo removed my entire working directory
20:10.55MinuteElectronack
20:10.57poolioshit
20:11.23MinuteElectronpoolio: does Linux not have undeletion methods?
20:17.15poolioerrr it does, nothing i'm familiar with, trying some tool now
20:21.31poolioalright
20:21.37poolioshutting down and trying from recovery environment
20:24.35*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:32.14MinuteElectronNo success?
20:34.41poolioerr nope
20:35.00MinuteElectronHow dread.
20:38.15pooliobrlcad: I rebooted and am in my gentoo install, but the inodes that it finds that were deleted link to empty files
20:38.20poolioI forgot about *@#@#$ ext3
20:38.26pooliozeros out the inodes, doesnt just unlink them
20:40.02poolioOn the bright side most of my stuff since my last commit whenever that was has been me trying to figure out trees and crap. not too much productive working code, otherwise it would have been in CVS
20:40.54poolioMaybe this was God telling me I should have listened to my boss and done the paperwork first
20:42.26brlcad:)
20:44.34pooliobrlcad: alright, I'm going to try to just type up the general idea of what I've lost while it's fresh in my mind
20:46.26pooliomannnn. that's 3 days of work. i'm going to add a cron job to backup my home directory
20:49.13brlcadyeah, that sucks
20:50.04pooliono, it's stupid.
20:50.48pooliowhat I mainly lost was hackish broken apart code, so it's not the end of the world, it's just a waste of time.
20:50.58poolioAlright, I'm gonna stop whining and start trying to rewrite what I've lost
20:51.24pooliobrlcad: wait, since you added .cvsignore are my updates to cvs ignored by everyone's cvs updates?
20:52.10brlcada good friend of mine used to have his new coders work on something for a few days
20:52.24brlcadthen he'd ask them to show him their progress after a couple days
20:52.25poolioThat's crazy though. One typo, one key off, and wham.
20:52.29pooliothen delete it?
20:52.34brlcadhe'd sit down at the keyboard, and then delete it ;)
20:52.42poolioah. why?
20:52.49brlcada lesson
20:52.54pooliobackup often?
20:52.59brlcaddon't get too attached to your code
20:53.24brlcadlearn to refactor and/or rewrite from scratch
20:53.27poolioI don't quite get the lesson? The thing I gather is just that I need to be more careful
20:53.43pooliobrlcad: Yeah, I'm sure what I write now will be better organized and more thought out put together code
20:53.44brlcadrewrite from memory, often with the expertise, without any of the code obstacles of existing infrastructure
20:53.46poolioit's just going to take a lot of time
20:54.16poolioyeah, that's true, but it's also highly inefficient in terms of time. if I was to say rewrite librt, libwdb, and all those i'd be coding for years and years before I got to a point
20:54.27brlcadmore time for you overall perhaps, but probably would have ultimately taken longer to get to that "better organized and more thought out" version
20:54.48brlcadit's hard for some folks to refactor for that "better" state once it's working
20:54.48pooliobut I understand the general idea, sometimes it's good to start over. Kind of like scheme vs lisp, scheme people say that they basically rewrote lisp without all the obastacles that lisp had to go through and with a knowledge of the problems that lisp encountered
20:55.43brlcadyeah, there is a tipping poing .. I wouldn't say the lesson extends to more than a few thousand lines of code at most
20:56.14brlcadafter that, there is a lot of investment that becomes massive and intricate to reproduce without loosing both bad and good, often more the latter
20:56.20poolioYeah. I think I lost around one-two thousand. but most of it was cut and paste junk. I can probably get it back in a couple more hours today + a hard day tomorrow, and I'd bet those errors I was having will miraculously be gone
20:56.54poolioArgh, it's annoying, in debugfs I can see the inodes and the filenames but the blocks are all wiped clean.
20:57.00pooliobrlcad: iphone or what?
20:57.03brlcadiphone
20:57.05poolioand you get your fancy schmancy macbook?
20:57.13brlcadhasn't arrived yet
20:57.14poolioeh. you and your toys.
20:57.28poolioAll I want is a lightweight old 12" and I'd be set for 4 years
20:57.36brlcadthe phone is pretty slick, I gotta admit
20:57.42brlcadeven without a damn sdk
20:57.45poolioyeah, but how's it work?
20:57.54brlcadthat's what I mean, functionally
20:57.59pooliohehe
20:57.59pooliowell enjoy it
20:58.09poolioi'm gonna reboot and get coding
20:58.42pooliotry to get some progress to speak of before I have to write up that report
21:02.18*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:03.17poolioback
21:03.38MinuteElectronThis reminds me - I need to code SuperCron, my Windows cron daemon so I can schedule backups and tasks on this machine.
21:05.19poolioactually that's worthless
21:05.32poolioi'm on a laptop, i'll have to remember to do it myself / at startup/shutdown
22:07.58*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.185.96)
22:13.16*** join/#brlcad jimmyz (n=asd@host86-133-245-247.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
22:25.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: better/consistent argument processing supporting both long and short option names, perhaps using argtable (argtable.sf.net)
22:31.39pooliobrlcad: I'm off for now, my mind is too fried/enraged to code any longer. I'll be back on later for more coding
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070706

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070706

03:20.36poolioback.
05:15.29pooliomornin ;)
05:18.12brlcadhowdy howdy
05:18.22brlcadget that brain washed off and ready for some more bunishment?
05:21.28pooliobrlcad: yes. I saw Sicko and went out for crepes, was a good evening. And I've already started the brain squeez.e
05:21.46brlcadmm crepes
05:22.36pooliojah. was tasty.
05:22.46poolionow I'm surfing ebay, looking to get a lenovo x40t or x60 or x61
05:24.27pooliobrlcad: http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-ThinkPad-X41-Tablt-1-5-1GB-60G-DVD-RW-Wi-Fi-Bluth_W0QQitemZ270140672371QQihZ017QQcategoryZ140083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
05:24.32pooliolooks too good to be true, must be :'(
05:26.13brlcadthere's still a day to go
05:26.39pooliobrlcad: yeah, but I think it's a fake auction. There's discrepancies between the title listing and the specs.
05:26.53poolioBut yeah, price will skyrocket in a couple hours
05:27.42brlcader, what discrepancies?
05:27.51brlcadother than being lazy on a few fields
05:28.21brlcadnot likely to be fake from a seller with 500 positive sells
05:28.28poolio60G hd vs 40G actual
05:28.32poolioYeah true...
05:28.44poolioJust seems too good to be true, but I guess that's due to the fact there's still a day left
05:28.48poolioI might just have to bid on it
05:28.48brlcadwhere do you see it say 40?
05:29.01poolioIn the specs description, the HTML formatted crap
05:29.45poolioAh I see, 40G internal + 20G, I guess you're right. I'm too skeptical about eBay in general, I've only ordered one thing off it ever. You ever use it?
05:30.13brlcadi've used it quite a bit over the years
05:30.23pooliocool cool.
05:30.26brlcadgood for buying random crap
05:30.47brlcad(and I mean that in a good yard-sale kind of way)
05:31.16brlcadit's probably only cheap because it's so far from the deadline
05:31.18poolioyeah, I'm kind of weary to buy things as expensive as say, a laptop. I'm worried about being scammed and all
05:31.28pooliobrlcad: True true. I shall wait and see
05:31.39brlcadIf you want to win it, you probably wouldn't bid this early
05:31.48brlcadi don't bid usually until the last 10 minutes
05:31.57brlcadif not the last 2
05:32.06poolioI'd imagine you get tens to hundreds of bids in the last minutes/seconds
05:32.41brlcaddepends on the product of course, how many people are watching
05:33.02brlcadthose that bid early usually tip their hand a bit and you have at least some idea of how many will be watching near the end
05:33.21poolioi'm also curious about the automatic bidding system
05:33.29poolioif you had two people set a pretty high max that was the same, who gets it?
05:33.35brlcadsome don't change at all in the last few minutes and you can get away with a steal
05:33.41pooliohttp://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=180136728304
05:33.44pooliowatching that one :
05:33.49brlcadothers you'll be outbid by whomever simply wanted it most
05:33.58pooliobrlcad: yeah, assuming you meet the buyer's reserve right? is there a way to know if you have?
05:34.28brlcade.g. if it's something I *really* want, you're not likely going to outbid me even if you're watching the last few minutes as my upper limit will be more than it's worth
05:34.42pooliohehe
05:34.44brlcadit was say if the reserve is met
05:34.48poolioyou and your toys... :)
05:35.04brlcadgotta have the toys
05:36.06poolioit'd be fun if you could coordinate the whole ebay community ;)
05:36.52brlcadthere are "ebay apps" out there now that will show you what others are bidding on, folks looking at things similar to yours, etc
05:37.12pooliogeez. crazy business
05:37.31poolioOh man, this is like some twisted game. Buyer 14 just got topped by Buyer 15!! what's gonna happen?!!
05:37.44poolio50 seconds!
05:37.50brlcadheh
05:37.52poolioIt'd suck if you were offline...
05:38.02brlcadyup, i've lost a few that way
05:38.22poolioOh woah
05:38.25brlcadforgot that I was watching a bid, the other guy gets a steal
05:38.39poolioOH NO WAY
05:38.45poolioBuyer 16 came out of nowhere
05:38.47poolioare you kiddin gme
05:38.51brlcadsee? :)
05:38.55poolioI refereshed at 5 seconds and WHAM
05:39.06brlcadthat's the way to play it if you really want it
05:39.18poolioWait til last second and up the current bid by enough to know you'll top them?
05:39.32brlcadyou put just one bid in that is at your max, most people just keep nudging it up
05:39.36poolioIf you submit at say, 1 second, will autobid still get you?
05:40.10poolioSo you submit as late as possible a fairly high bid? will it automatically try to ge tyou the lowest or is it whatever you bid you get it for?
05:40.22brlcadautobid is just a way of saying that the next bid amount is just over whatever the next max was
05:41.15pooliohmm, I don't quite understand. I thought it was like if someone bids higher than you while you're away, it will bid higher than that other person, but only up to a certain point that you set
05:41.31brlcadso if A bids 100 with it at 50, they get it at 51 .. then B bids at 150, the'll get it via autobid at 101
05:42.13brlcadif A rebids at 140, B still keeps it, but the amount is then 141
05:42.13pooliowow. my brain must be fried, i still don't get it... :P
05:42.33pooliooh I see
05:42.52poolioSo You bid a certain amount, and if your bid is over the previous bid (assuming you're using autobid) it will just add a dollar to the previous high?
05:42.54brlcadit's only if/when A goes over 150 that they'd get it
05:43.22poolioSo is it automatically set to "autobid" ?
05:43.25brlcadso 16 just had a bid amount that was higher than 15's max bid (which "usually" isn't hard for most bids)
05:43.57brlcadbecause again, most people don't put their real "max", else they would be easily out-bid by someone else that simply wants it more
05:44.18brlcadjust a little more too, doesn't take much to think "hm, I'd pay a buck more than them"
05:44.33poolioBut is there a way to know if it was higher than 15's max bid? Could it just be that they submitted a bid and that was the high before the system got around to computing 15's autobid?
05:45.16brlcadso you just wait until the last minute and put what you would really pay for it -- not want you want, you put your real max .. that way you either max out and get it, max out and someone else gets it, or get it for something far less (the usual, if your bid was reasonable)
05:46.00pooliooh I see, sweet :)
05:46.05brlcadwell, if you're really quick on a fast connection, you can put in your bid and you'll know within 10 seconds if you're over or need to up your bid
05:46.23brlcadbut then you still risk loosing if you don't put your real max
05:46.29poolioYeah
05:46.43poolioso a strategy might be bid at 15, watch and see if it jumps, than rebid
05:46.53poolio(15 seconds)
05:47.34brlcadi usually bid in the last two minutes just to see if someone else is "watching", since most will panic and rebid
05:47.41poolioSo if you bid at your max, and another guy has a max higher than yours, the price is automatically climbed to 1 dollar greater than your max?
05:47.41brlcadthen I put in my real max
05:47.48brlcadright
05:48.12brlcadand that's just the nature of the bid -- if they truely are willing to pay more than you, then you have to back off
05:48.14poolioHeh cool, thanks for the ebay advice :)
05:48.16brlcadat least you should
05:49.19brlcadthe items flow through ebay, even obscure stuff, so even if you lose the first three bids, you just keep at it with your max and so long as it's not a hail mary max, you'll eventually get it when the competition isn't so attentive
05:49.44brlcadtime of day matters too, bids that close at night-time US vs afternoon vs daytime, etc
05:50.06pooliohmmm, cool
05:50.28brlcadbids that close at night are generally *way* easier to win on, your only competition is folks like #16 that know the game and will bid what they're willing
05:51.19poolioSo the idea is never really to bid, see if someone outbids you, bid higher, etc... it's to bid your max and leave it at that? (well, in general)
05:51.38brlcadright
05:52.13brlcadotherwise, you're just pushing against other folks trying to find their limit, fighting everyone's urge to go "just a few more bucks"
05:52.40brlcadit's much easier to just take human nature into account, most won't watch the absolute last minute
05:53.01brlcador even if they do, can't get a new bid in before it expires
05:53.41poolioLets say the bid is at 400, your max is at 500, with 5 seconds left someone bids 401. Will you get it? I mean will the system go through and get the highest bidder based on max bids or will it stop with the clock?
05:54.03brlcadmax bids
05:54.15pooliogood good
05:54.37brlcadagain the "autobid" is a bit misleading -- it's instant to whatever the next increment over the next max
05:55.06poolioyeah. makes sense.
05:55.15brlcadso with a bid of 401, that becomes the "next max" and the price goes to 402
05:55.25poolioIt's a bit deceptive but it prevents stuff like hundres of people overloading a bid at the last second
05:55.36poolioAnd if people has tthe same bid? the people who bid first gets it?
05:55.38brlcadthey'll usually poke that max a few times if there's plenty of time left
05:56.29brlcadyeah, because if A bids 100 and gets it at 80, then B bids 100 -- that will push the price up to 100, but A still keeps it
05:57.06pooliohurray, i think that all penetrated my thick skull, thanks
05:57.28*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-106-248.dclient.hispeed.ch)
05:57.32brlcadwhich is another tip, don't bid whole dollar amounts, or even just a penny over -- tons of people try to pull a "price-is-right" one or two or three pennies over max bid
05:58.05brlcadbid your actual and a few dimes and avoid the fuss, make them go to the next dollar
09:23.02*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:10.43*** join/#brlcad cad71 (n=571693b8@bz.bzflag.bz)
11:27.46*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
11:37.52Laniakeabrlcad: do you have some mailing lists?
11:39.42*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.117.105)
11:44.19*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
12:31.02*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-075-134.pools.arcor-ip.net)
12:38.58*** join/#brlcad clock_ (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
12:46.50brlcadLaniakea: there are several
12:47.39clock_brlcad: could you please also host my Ronja mailing list?
13:01.15*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
13:05.48pooliomornin brlcad
14:09.37brlcadhowdy
14:20.43poolioI think I'm done all the paperwork, back to coding :)
17:29.35pooliobrlcad: hrmph. I just rewrote code that I already implemented and had saved in CVS. oops.
17:35.38clock_brlcad: can you host mailing lists from other projects?
18:56.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177878796.dsl.bell.ca)
18:59.06IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2  7.8.4cygwinbuild.png :)
19:00.12IriX64ogl though givesd me a bad FB_CK_MAG number :(
19:01.26IriX64when trying to attach to ogl i mean
19:01.53IriX64on the bright side nu works :)
19:04.36IriX64it calls out line 199 in if_ogl.c but that line just calls the check
19:05.17brlcadclock_: hmm
19:05.52brlcadclock_: i suppose that depends, though there are a few aspects outside my control (like the list prefix)
19:07.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/YosGwI66.html  <--- anybody have any ideas
19:08.15brlcadIriX64: looks like opengl was only half-enabled
19:08.22brlcadso it crashes
19:08.35IriX64you mean at configure time?
19:08.40brlcadthat's really hard to do anything about without stepping through the initialization in a debugger
19:08.59IriX64mmm i have no debugger :)
19:09.24brlcadconfigure/compilation time .. it could be a preprocessor symbol not being set right because of configure checks or an outright opengl bug (though really doubtful)
19:09.24IriX64i'll play with X then :)
19:09.36brlcadyou have a debugger, or can easily get one.. gdb :)
19:09.44IriX64thanks
19:10.07IriX64i doubt its ogl
19:12.24brlcadyou doubt what is opengl?
19:13.21IriX64the problem
19:13.35brlcadspeculating on the problem isn't likely going to get you anywhere, it could really be at least a *hundred* different things
19:14.27brlcadif you don't have a debugger and the ability to step through the code line by line, it's pretty much a dead end without wasted effort
19:16.21IriX64agreed, think i'll stick to X for now
19:17.21*** join/#brlcad topografos (n=topograf@adsl-141-90.adsl.ntua.gr)
19:23.00IriX64now what havie built and what can it do :)
23:04.17*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-108-136.dclient.hispeed.ch)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070707

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070707

03:15.49*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-66-196.dyn.iinet.net.au)
03:15.56thing0hey guys
03:15.58thing0paid day off
03:16.00thing0wooohooo
03:16.04thing0:)
03:16.06pooliolucker.
03:16.14thing0yeah
03:16.25thing0site is closed because of acid plant start up
03:16.51thing0so only had to had to sit in training for 4 hours
03:16.54thing0now I am free
03:16.55thing0;)
03:20.20pooliohoorah.
03:20.22poolioacid plant?
03:20.53thing0yeah
03:21.06thing0part of processing for nickel mine site
03:21.10thing0I am sitting on right now
03:21.12thing0;)
03:25.00poolioah
03:25.49thing0yeah
03:31.03*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-59-203-178.dyn.iinet.net.au)
04:02.15*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-203-178.dyn.iinet.net.au)
04:38.52thing0cya lunch time
04:38.53*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-203-178.dyn.iinet.net.au)
08:03.33*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@217-162-230-130.dclient.hispeed.ch)
08:19.41Laniakeabrlcad: what did you mean with the prefix? That the list would have to be called brlcad-ronja?
10:00.37*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-076.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:47.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: What is the full path to wget?
12:25.29Laniakea/usr/local/bin/wget
13:02.20*** join/#brlcad cad78 (n=8ea75d96@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:09.05*** join/#brlcad MinteElectron_ (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:09.29MinteElectron_brlcad: How can i find out all processes I ahve running? top -u MinuteElectron doesn't work.
13:10.22MinteElectron_My connection aborted and now I am locked out of screen.
13:10.33MinteElectron_So I cannot resume my previous screen.
13:15.47MinuteElectronThat is better.
13:15.53MinuteElectronLaniakea: Thanks.
13:17.53MinuteElectronNow back to work...
13:18.18LaniakeaMinuteElectron: ps fawux
13:18.24Laniakeaps aux
13:18.25Laniakeaps ax
13:18.53MinuteElectron?
13:43.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: I have made some touches to the website. Can you take a look at it and tell me what needs fixing before I go ahead and port this to MediaWiki?
14:15.46*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
14:42.18brlcadMinuteElectron: top -u -UMinuteElectron
14:42.34brlcad-u means sort, -U is user
14:43.09pooliomornin brlcad
14:43.15brlcadmornin poolio
14:44.24pooliobrlcad: that x41t i was looking at ended up going for 710 :P oh well. didn't end up bidding on it, i went to sleep
14:45.28brlcad:)
14:49.29pooliobrlcad: i'm off for the day, going to a festival in westminster, cya later
14:49.33brlcadMinuteElectron: I looked, looks good -- the only thing I can think of that is missing would be a common footer
14:49.45brlcadpoolio: ah, sounds like fun -- cay
14:50.25brlcadMinute http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/color_palette_tr.png
14:50.33poolioI think I might bring my laptop and code some in the car. haha.
14:51.09brlcadMinuteElectron: don't know if that will help or not, but I put that together to help keep the styles consistent as the site(s) are put together
14:52.11brlcadi used to live 20 minutes away from westminster
15:01.21MinuteElectronbrlcad: What would you like in a common footer?
15:04.19brlcadsomething big and blinking
15:05.23MinuteElectronseriously?
15:06.48brlcadheh, no :)
15:07.00MinuteElectronok
15:08.33brlcadsomething either like slashdot's footer, or apple's footer here: http://www.apple.com/itunes/ or some mix in-between
15:09.00MinuteElectronok
15:09.44MinuteElectronYOu mean with the link box?
15:10.09brlcadno, the (small) section below it
15:10.12MinuteElectronok
15:11.10brlcadit's not much, but it adds quite a bit to the navigation (and the only place where you find some items like sitemap, privacy policy, etc)
15:11.41MinuteElectronok
15:12.09brlcadI really like slashdot's search and quote box, and the transition, but that could be done later
15:12.41brlcadwe have a fair bit of a tradition with meaningful quotes that I could have randomly display in something like that
16:26.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: should use /usr/bin/env instead of assuming /bin/bash since it's not using /bin/sh
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18:30.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/footer.sh: change default to // comments for C++ files, fix a bug related to having that as a comment character block when updating files that already have a footer too (encountered processing bzflag files)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070708

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070708

05:21.39*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
05:21.39*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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09:34.09MinuteElectronbrlcad: I have a problem with my crontab, none of the jobs have executed,
09:35.49MinuteElectronOne job should execute at 45 minutes past the hour every hour, and the other everyday at 03:00 - neither executed.
09:41.15MinuteElectronAlso I need to execute an svn update on /w in the web directory - I cannot do this without sudo and entering my password - and I would like it to run from the crontab.
09:41.19MinuteElectronbrb
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12:39.58MinuteElectronbrlcad: I think I have solved the crontab problem - by using sudo to edit www's crontab.
12:41.11MinuteElectronbrlcad: But the problem regarding my cronjobs not executing still stands.
12:45.45MinuteElectronbrlcad: So, www's crontab works - but mine doesn't. o_O
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17:37.33IriX64MinuteElectron, perhaps a page dedicated to user supplied solid models?
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17:49.13IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2   BrlCad.jpg and BrlCad.png
17:49.25IriX64err brlcad2.png
17:53.16IriX64brlcad3.png at that site now
18:00.53IriX64tracing.png same site, and i'll stop annoying you now :)
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18:25.21tarzeauIriX64: hey i also use irssi on windows
18:40.56IriX64nice program tarzeau
18:41.14IriX64they did a good job on it, I have no perl though :)
18:42.02tarzeaui don't use perl either
18:42.15tarzeauit's indeed nice inside gnu screen
18:42.26IriX64might use it if I had it doesn't compile properly here
18:44.00IriX64that site look for irssi.png, how im seeing it :)
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18:46.33IriX64haha should have let you see the background compile thats going on here :)
18:58.53IriX64heh tarzeau mine is 8.11
18:59.07tarzeau?
18:59.13IriX64irssi
18:59.18tarzeauah the version
18:59.21IriX64yes
19:01.40IriX64tarzeau, that same site look for photonsaway.png, just had to share it, it's so purty :)
19:02.31tarzeauwhat a helicopter
19:02.43tarzeauhttp://helicopter.istheshit.net/
19:02.45IriX64the new exterprise :)
19:03.53IriX64what the heck is that?
19:04.00IriX64i did not startit
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19:32.14IriX64trying for 1024x768, I want it as wallpaper :)
19:42.37MinuteElectronIriX64: hmm, dedicated page?
19:42.53MinuteElectronI think brlcad was plaanning a gallery of somesorts for that.
19:43.25IriX64yeah a space to share what users have done, especially serious users like GM or whoever
19:43.36MinuteElectronGM?
19:43.43IriX64General Motors
19:44.02MinuteElectronahh, they use BRL-CAD?
19:44.18IriX64I don't know who all uses it but that idea
19:44.24MinuteElectronOh, lol, I see.
19:44.34IriX64no idea tell them they should :)
19:45.28IriX64I like your work, i've bookmarked drupal
19:47.18IriX64heh wallcandy taking shape now
19:50.39IriX64same site, wallcandy.png heh and my desktop is beautifull
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19:57.03MinuteElectronI am using irssi - except only on stuff related to brlcad.
19:57.18MinuteElectronEverything else I put on my at home client.
19:57.39MinuteElectronwhich is ChatZilla.
19:58.01IriX64They wen't and took chatzilla out of FireFox
19:58.16IriX64well the windows firefox
19:59.36MinuteElectronI use XUL runner to run ChatZilla.
19:59.51MinuteElectronFirefox isn't the greatest browser - I prefer Opera.
19:59.56IriX64not familiar with it
20:00.01IriX64err XUL
20:00.03MinuteElectronFirefox is so memory hungry.
20:00.09IriX64opera i like
20:00.18IriX64the chat in opera is nice
20:00.41MinuteElectronIriX64: ChatZilla is written in XUL -firefox runs XUL natively, but you can get external programs which also run it.
20:00.51*** join/#brlcad RodGallowGlass (n=mario_du@bas2-sudbury98-1177593789.dsl.bell.ca)
20:00.53MinuteElectronI like to introduce my friends to IRC using Opera as a few of them have it.
20:01.06RodGallowGlassme too
20:10.49IriX64prefer MIrc because of instant access to urls tho
20:11.06IriX64opera has that too
20:33.17IriX64back to work
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22:42.37brlcadMinuteElectron: apologies on the delays, was obviously out all day yesterday :)
22:44.29brlcadGM has in the past used BRL-CAD, though they also had/have their own internal CAD package that they used for ages
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070709

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070709

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06:15.59MinuteElectronbrlcad: Cool.
06:16.22MinuteElectronbrlcad: There is still a problem with my crontab - the one for www executes fine, but mine doesn't.
06:19.18MinuteElectronAlso, is it ok to set the crontab of www to my e-mail address as some tasks need sudo www,
06:47.35brlcadMinuteElectron: checking your crontab now
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07:48.19brlcadMinuteElectron: I checked and your crontab is indeed running, so something is wrong with your crontab entries
07:49.01brlcadat a glance, they run correctly, so I'd suspect it's probably your path
07:49.26brlcadcron does not run with a user path, it's very minimal by default, so it probably can't find mysqldump
07:49.54brlcadthat said, the server already performs automatic backups of the mysql databases too ..
08:00.30brlcadah, it's the subshell execution, not allowed
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08:07.19brlcadyou'd have to either wrap in a script or just some other means to rotate
08:24.26Laniakeabrlcad: do you use (document) scanners in work?
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15:15.26brlcadMinuteElectron: you get my notes from last night?
15:46.20MinuteElectronyes
17:36.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: general cleanup
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17:47.15poolioback :)
17:47.22poolionothing like 2 hours of driving for 5 minutes of paperwork...
17:53.13IriX64heh it works, http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2       Xming.png   :)
17:54.50IriX64handfull of dll's + Xming, and I've got a product :)
17:56.32IriX64any decent X-server for win platform actually
17:58.11poolioI don't think _YOU_ have a product ;)
17:58.26IriX64heh ok ... *we* :)
17:58.46pooliowell, you could sell it if you wanted to
17:59.07IriX64nah, not into money, gets my fingers dirty ;)
17:59.49IriX64heh Hey Genral Motors, have I got something for you :)
18:01.24IriX64that windowsirssi.zip on that site is a cygwin compile of ubnix irssi, works here should work anywhere.
18:01.54IriX64errr unix
18:03.17IriX64maybe i should change that name
18:03.25IriX64suggestions?
18:03.47poolioirssi
18:03.54IriX64thats all
18:03.59IriX64?
18:03.59poolioyes.
18:04.05IriX64just a sec
18:04.07poolioirssi is irssi whether it is compiled for unix or windows
18:04.47IriX64there
18:05.58IriX64heh overlap tool says havoc has no overlaps, is this accurate?
18:07.46IriX64even at 1cm there are still no overlaps, are you people that good :)
18:08.30poolioI'd guess there aren't any overlaps. period.
18:08.45IriX64i think you're right
18:08.46IriX64.
18:09.47IriX64.0001 cm agrees with you :)
18:11.16IriX64if you know anybody who can use that Irssi, spread the site far and wide
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19:43.01MinuteElectronIriX64: irssi4windows
19:43.23poolioso should we have irssi4linux, irssi4bsd, irssi4sun ?
19:43.42MinuteElectronyep
19:43.55MinuteElectronwould make a nice loho
19:43.57MinuteElectron*logo
19:44.17MinuteElectronlol
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20:10.39IriX64MinuteElectron... done :)
20:12.27IriX64has anybody tried it?
20:13.17IriX64I'm currently using it to chat with you on my windows box
20:14.21IriX64CYGWIN_NT 5.1 = pseudo unix :)
20:23.38MinuteElectronheh
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20:36.29MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can I inquire as to what operating suystem the server is running. I am kind-of confused as it works exactly the same as a debian box I have access to - but claims to not be Linux.
20:37.55pooliouname
20:38.35MinuteElectronyeah, it says FreeBSD - but I swear that it is just saying that to trick crackers.
21:12.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: try a smaller larger tolerance for edge hits
21:13.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: duh, destructor virtual for virtual methods
21:15.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: remove dead code; fix edge check bug - not properly checking all edges; still debugging shot routine
21:17.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/Makefile.am: add warnings to opennurbs compile
21:18.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: bypass segfaults and broken bezier clipping code
21:19.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp: add missing return statements - stupid compiler; debug CloseTo code
21:20.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.h: add missing return statements
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23:30.24poolioWOAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:30.29pooliobrlcad: you you.....left!?!?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070710

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01:41.25pooliobrlcad: so after rewriting all the code I still get the same problem with corrupting the database
02:18.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: more cleanup, reorder based on call order, remove dead code, add comments
02:25.04brlcadpoolio: heh, no .. just freenode relinking servers
02:25.18pooliobrlcad: haha
02:25.30pooliobrlcad: if I uploaded some files, think you'd have a minute to look at them?
02:25.46poolioI currently have the most bizarre thing I've ever seen
02:26.04poolioI have a line that has a printf statement on it, when I comment out that line it segfaults. When I keep it, it runs. :?
02:29.54brlcadheh, fun
02:30.02brlcadsounds like you've blown the stack somewhere
02:30.23brlcadoften pretty hard bugs to track down
02:30.46poolioah correctomndo, gdb to the rescue
02:30.48brlcadbut sure, I'd take a look for a little while (though I'm in the middle of other things to get too involved tonight)
02:31.57pooliobrlcad: alright, gimme 2 more minutes and if I can't get it I'll send you the test app and cvs up the files it depends on
02:32.10brlcadgdb is not great at detecting corrupted stack, but good to try
02:33.57poolioit's no longer segfaulting, but same "db5_crack_disk_header() bad magic1 -- database has become corrupted expected x76, got x0
02:48.34pooliobrlcad: Oh no way. I only get the error when copying combinations
02:48.56pooliocan I not rt_db_put_internal a combination?
02:50.28brlcadpoolio: there's not nearly enough information in your comments to answer that question :)
02:50.30pooliooh I see...I guess my trees weren't properly being modified to point to the renamed shapes
02:51.27brlcaddb5_crack_disk_header() is one of the first things that the database loader does to make sure it's actually working with what seems to be a .g file
02:51.47poolioI figured it out I think, I just still haven't found the bug
02:51.53brlcadmeaning if that fails, then "something" before that is wrong
02:56.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (9 files):
02:56.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: quell compilation warnings for a slew of switch statements that don't handle
02:56.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: various possible enumeration values. whether this is unimplemented
02:56.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: functionality or cases that will never be encountered in that routine, the
02:56.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: warnings can be quelled by adding a default case that does nothing.
03:07.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dbupgrade.c: quell exit decl warning
03:08.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (g4-g5.c g5-g4.c): quell exit decl warning
03:13.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: quell libpkg compilation warning, the buffer may be modified to add the pkg header so it shouldn't be const
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03:15.35IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse/test.png     (thing is marvellous) :)
03:21.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: use bufsize instead
03:31.36IriX64truck.png is interesting too :)
03:35.47pooliobrlcad: I have a general question about stringhandling. If i'm passing around and modifying names, concatenating strings, etc... does brl-cad implement things that might be helpful or is it fine to just use libc standard routiens?
03:43.31brlcadpoolio: should either use standard libc routines or libbu's bu_vls strings
03:43.44poolioalright. they don't really need to be vls, so ill stick to libc
03:43.46brlcad(vls == variable length strings)
03:43.52poolioyep
03:44.05pooliobrlcad: alright i'm on a roll and am finally getting somewhere, i'm gonna stay up coding :)
03:44.23brlcadif you can't do it without allocating memory ala malloc and friends, you should probably be using a vls
03:44.48pooliowell for like naming shapes
03:45.06poolioI currently have a name string and concatenate an integer
03:45.22poolioso I use snprintf a bunch
03:45.33brlcadsure, that's fine
03:45.50brlcadit's whether that n is to a static buffer or something being resized as needed
03:45.58brlcadif it's being resized (ever), it should probably be a vls
03:46.07poolioyeah, i'm not realloc'ing anything
03:46.07brlcadif it's just an array, then you're good
03:47.28brlcadlikewise, if the size never changes and it's megs of memory, it should probably be a stack array instead of malloc'd too
03:48.00brlcads/megs/not megs/
03:49.16poolioyeah. none of it is malloc'd. I'm defining the buffer size at 256 for now, I'll fix that later
03:52.30IriX64poolio for 256 bytes why not alloca and let the system automagically free it at exit :)
03:52.52poolioIriX64: that's what I'm doing. "none of it is malloc'd"
03:53.04IriX64heh ok
03:53.11pooliowell no i lied
03:53.13poolioi'm not using alloca
03:53.30IriX64it's your code man
03:53.35poolioheh, you can patch it for me
03:53.56IriX64rtfp read the fine patch :)
03:55.38IriX64roses need watering  :) bbiab
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13:26.07pooliomornin. i vow to commit today :)
13:34.43LaniakeaWhen compiling brl-cad, I always did ./configure and never ./configure --enable-optimized as suggested in INSTALL.
13:34.50LaniakeaDoes it affect the rendering speed significantly?
13:38.44poolioyes.
13:38.54Laniakeahow much?
13:39.03Laniakeaorders of magnitude? percent? tens of percent?
13:39.09poolioin terms of the VGR I get in benchmark it's around twice as fast
13:39.14brlcadalmost 2x usually
13:39.16LaniakeaNow I understand why I think it's slow :)
13:39.19pooliobrlcad: mornin :)
13:39.55Laniakeabrlcad: now I am trying to compile 7.10.0 or however it's called on OpenBSD. If it fails I can then report you the error message.
13:39.57brlcaddepends of course on hardware, compiler, alignment, and other issues, but usuallya bout 2x
13:42.23pooliobrlcad: i'm just gonna run my database organization by you. The original model data that has the source we're trying to generate is going to be stored in some database, the program gets that database and each generation has its own database. Any suggestions for naming shapes part of a certain region? I was just appending numbers
13:43.17brlcadnot really anything major
13:43.19Laniakeabrlcad: what kind of optimization is turned on by this option? Compiler optimizations like -O3, -s -fomit-frame-pointer, -fstrength-reduce, -funroll-loops etc.?
13:43.36brlcadmaybe include the primitive name as the prefix or a suffix so it's immediately identifiable
13:44.29pooliobrlcad: good idea
13:45.21Laniakea*** Warning: linker path does not have real file for library -ltcl85.
13:45.21Laniakea*** I have the capability to make that library automatically link in when
13:45.21Laniakea*** you link to this library.  But I can only do this if you have a
13:45.21Laniakea*** shared version of the library, which you do not appear to have
13:45.21Laniakea*** because I did check the linker path looking for a file starting
13:45.24Laniakea*** with libtcl85 and none of the candidates passed a file format test
13:45.26Laniakea*** using a file magic. Last file checked: /home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl85.a
13:45.29LaniakeaThat's normal or is it a failure sign?
13:45.35poolioPlease use a pastebin
13:45.35brlcadLaniakea: it basically goes from unoptimized (-O0) to -O3
13:45.36Laniakea(the compilation continues)
13:45.37poolio~paste
13:45.38ibotpaste is probably http://rafb.net/paste/
13:45.43Laniakeaomg -O0
13:45.55brlcaddefault is set for developers
13:47.24brlcadthe installation docs have always documented that as well, default is _unoptimized_
13:47.29brlcadhence the flag for optimized
13:48.59brlcadthere have been other flags, but whether they actually add anything usually depends on many factors and can actually slow it down too so it's presently still left up to the person compiling to add more than -O3
13:49.00Laniakeaand I wondered, why all the videos render for weeks :)
13:49.44LaniakeaI have system CFLAGS set to -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe. Does it cause optimization when I don't specify --enable-optimized to ./configure?
13:50.39brlcadof course, you can set the flags directly
13:51.03brlcadin that case enable optimized isn't going to do much at all
13:51.04Laniakeabut does the make actually take it over?
13:51.07Laniakea:(
13:51.20Laniakeasince some projects ignore these CFLAGS
13:51.30brlcaddepends what you mean by "system CFLAGS"
13:51.38brlcadyou have to specify it somehow
13:51.47Laniakeait's set in /etc/profile or so by export
13:52.46brlcadthat one should retain then if it's exported in your environment, but you'd have to look at the compilation log to be sure
14:12.58Laniakeabrlcad: so the errors are here...
14:13.33Laniakea./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >& std::operator<< <std::char_traits<char> >(std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >&, char const*)'
14:13.37Laniakea./.libs/librt.so.19.1: undefined reference to `std::basic_ostream<char, std::char_traits<char> >::operator<<(long)'
14:13.56Laniakeaand much more undefined references.
14:14.09poolioall from g++?
14:14.38LaniakeaThey are from /bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=link gcc  -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o comb  comb.o librt.la -lc -lm ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la ../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la  ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libbn/libbn.la ../../src/libbu/libbu.la -L..
14:17.04LaniakeaAny idea if I need to install some additional library?
14:18.33pooliosounds like it's using gcc when it should be using g++
14:20.50Laniakeabut it's running on comb.o and comb.o has equivalent of comb.c so it should run gcc and not g++, shouldn't?
14:23.17pooliono
14:23.33pooliocomb.o is equivalent of an object file, in c or c++, it's just nomenclature. It could be anything
14:23.47poolioI could be entirely wrong though, I'd wait for brlcad to return and solve all your problems.
14:23.50Laniakeawhy should it run g++?
14:24.01Laniakeawhere is brlcad? On the toiler?
14:24.03Laniakeatoliet?
14:24.20poolioNo, he's working his ass off, like he does every day. So be patient, maybe find something else to do, and wait for a response.
14:25.48LaniakeaI want to compile newest brl-cad because the old one rendered contour drawings incorrectly and they repaired it after I reported it
14:26.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/vrlink.c: rt_bufsize is in a header we don't use, so just define something
14:28.27MinuteElectronbrlcad: Want a search box in the footer and at the top or just at the top?
14:28.57Laniakeapoolio: are you brlcad's coworker?
14:29.15pooliokind of.
14:29.21LaniakeaMinuteElectron: and you too>
14:29.38MinuteElectronLaniakea: I am the website developer.
14:29.47LaniakeaMinuteElectron: of the new upcoming website?
14:29.52MinuteElectronVery new around here, yes.
14:30.07LaniakeaMinuteElectron: I can't wait for that
14:30.15MinuteElectronIt is available at http://my.brlcad.org/ - but bear in mind it is still under development.
14:30.33MinuteElectron(nearly ready to port it to MediaWiki and populate the site though)
14:30.46*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-064-107.pools.arcor-ip.net)
14:46.59Laniakeabrlcad: did you see the error?
15:23.30brlcadLaniakea: yes
15:24.21brlcadit is a c++ matter, attempting to link the first app that uses librt (and your compilation is specified to use openNURBS)
15:24.39Laniakeabrlcad: do I need to install openNURBS?
15:24.54brlcadit already compiled it
15:25.12Laniakeabrlcad: what I should do to make it compile?
15:25.30brlcadare you on head?
15:25.38Laniakea7.10.0
15:26.24brlcadhrm, I forget what was done in 7.10.0 -- after libopenNURBS.la, it "should" also say -lstdc++
15:26.34brlcadassuming the configure test passed
15:26.46brlcaddo you have libstdc++ installed?
15:27.27Laniakea/usr/lib/libstdc++.a
15:27.27Laniakea/usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0
15:28.54Laniakeafind /usr/include and /usr/local/include -name '*stdc++*' doesn't find anything
15:29.16LaniakeaYes the conffigure passed
15:29.53brlcadgrep OPENNURBS src/librt/Makefile
15:30.10LaniakeaOPENNURBS = ${top_builddir}/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la ${LIBSTDCXX}
15:30.10LaniakeaOPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS = -I${top_srcdir}/src/other/openNURBS
15:30.10LaniakeaBREP_CPPFLAGS = -DOBJ_BREP=1 $(OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS)
15:30.25MinuteElectronbrlcad: PM?
15:30.45Laniakeabrlcad: -lstdc++ doesn
15:30.49Laniakeat occur in the Makefile
15:31.07brlcadgrep "LIBSTDCXX =" src/librt/Makefile
15:31.24LaniakeaLIBSTDCXX =
15:31.34Laniakea(the rest of line is empty)
15:31.40brlcadaccording to that, the test failed
15:31.55Laniakeayou mean the ./configure failed?
15:32.05brlcadno
15:32.13brlcadthe configure test for -lstdc++
15:32.28Laniakeaso should I rerun configure and figure out why?
15:32.34brlcadconfigure runs hundreds of tests for functionality
15:32.41brlcadthat is one of them, and it failed for some reason
15:32.47brlcadlook in config.log
15:33.08brlcadsearch for lstd
15:33.24brlcadmine has:
15:33.25brlcadconfigure:31387: checking for main in -lstdc++
15:33.25brlcadconfigure:31411: gcc -o conftest   -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lstdc++   >&5
15:33.28brlcadconfigure:31417: $? = 0
15:33.31brlcadthat means it succeeded
15:33.43brlcadif it fails, there will be a huge section below it with details on why
15:34.40Laniakealibstdc++ test failed because of missing -lm:
15:34.52Laniakea<PROTECTED>
15:35.06Laniakeaand the error messages are like /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.42.0: undefined reference to `log' and all possible math functions
15:36.17brlcadinteresting, ok
15:36.19Laniakealog, sqrt, cosh, finitef, cos, tanh, sin, atan2, pow, sinh, log10, exp, tan
15:36.58Laniakeaso brlcad has to be compiled with LDFLAGS=-lm ./configure --enable-optimized?
15:37.15LaniakeaThat should be written in the README
15:37.16brlcadyou have a stdc with unresolved symbols, first I've seen of that
15:37.28brlcadthat shouldn't be written in the readme
15:37.37brlcadit can be accommodated
15:37.50brlcadi.e. adjusting configure.ac is best
15:38.45Laniakeawell the libstdc++, if using pow etc., must necessarily have unresolved symbols, doesn't?
15:38.49brlcadwhich OS are you on? openbsd?
15:39.02brlcadno, it could resolve the symbols
15:39.06LaniakeaOtherwise all the libm code would have to duplicated inside libstdc++, wouldn't?
15:39.18brlcadyou can have libraries with or without resolved symbols
15:39.19LaniakeaBut the resolution is done only by the dynamic linker, isn't it?
15:39.26brlcadusually low-level libraries are fully resolved
15:39.31LaniakeaWhat does it mean, library with resolved symbols and without?
15:39.40brlcadotherwise, you have to link against all of their dependency libs regardless
15:40.16Laniakearesolved symbol means that instead of "pow", an absolute address is written in that place in libstdc++?
15:40.39brlcadit means exactly that -- there are symbols in the library .. they are either defined as in they have an address to code or they do not (man ld, nm, ar)
15:40.49brlcadbasically, yes
15:40.59brlcaddepending on what you mean by absolute
15:41.33brlcadregardless, it uses pow, so the library resolves the symbols for pow() in that library by providing the definition
15:42.07Laniakeabut if you link with a different version of -lm than against which it was resolved and the symbols are in different places, then it segfaults
15:42.23brlcadhuh?
15:42.38Laniakeabecause there are already absolute addresses in libstdc++
15:42.41brlcadit doesn't need/use -lm if it's a resolved symbol
15:42.49brlcadit's resolved
15:42.57brlcadthere's no external linkage
15:43.07Laniakeawell when libstdc++ calls pow, the pow() code must be present
15:43.24Laniakeaif the executable code is missing at the given address and the address is execute, it will segfault
15:43.39brlcadyes, and it must either be present and link or run-time depending on how one compile
15:43.40Laniakeaso the libm must be loaded by the ld.so or how it's called
15:44.33Laniakeaand if you upgrade your -lm the addresses may change and the it will execute somewhere from half instruction or so and perform things that were not intended
15:44.33Laniakeawith likely segfault resulting
15:44.41brlcadyour assertion that it'll segfault is only true if that address is executed, which is wouldn't -- the dynamic linker would abort on most systems
15:44.53brlcadyou're still referring to unresolved symbols
15:44.54Laniakeaso the dynamic linker tests the version?
15:45.05brlcadthere is NO dynamic linking occurring if it's resolved
15:45.22brlcadit has the code to pow, it could inline it for all you care and make there be no pow() at all
15:45.42Laniakeaso the pow code is stored inside of libstdc++?
15:45.54brlcadyes, some form of it
15:46.02brlcadhence.. "resolved"
15:46.08Laniakeaanyway, brl-cad ./configure must be IMHO rewritten to include -lm on the test for libstdc++
15:47.14brlcadseriously, that was what I'd said 10 minutes ago
15:47.27Laniakeayou said I can adjust it somewhere
15:47.38Laniakeaor it could test whether the symbol is resolved or not and adjust accordingly
15:48.13Laniakeaand also pass -lm when linking with -stdc++, or not?
15:48.27brlcadehm, I'm familiar with what I wrote -- it's just a few lines above .. i said it can be accommodated
15:48.37brlcadi.e. the fact that your lib isn't resolved can be accommodated
15:49.28brlcadseriously, what's with the tone?
15:50.09Laniakeatone is not transmitted through electronic communication, that was proven by some study
15:50.53Laniakeawhat was interesting in the librt makefile there was double -lm, like -lm -lm
15:51.00Laniakeathat's an anomaly, isn't it?
15:51.15LaniakeaI'm trying to recreate the Makefile now
15:51.23brlcadok, arrogant phrasing then ..
15:51.34brlcadeither way, it's not the first time
15:51.45LaniakeaI don't want to sound arrogant
15:52.18LaniakeaIt's the property of electronic media. I read an article where they showed that the impression people get from electronic communication has no correlation what the writer intended
15:52.31Laniakeai. e., it's 50:50. Exactly like throwing dice.
15:53.23Laniakeayeah. src/librt/Makefile: BN_LIBS = ${top_builddir}/src/libbu/libbu.la -L${top_builddir}/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85  -lm -lm
15:54.18brlcadin general, that's certainly true -- in practice, particularly on IRC, there are trends and language that while each individual statement could be taken several ways 50/50, the accumulation of them generate personality
15:54.49Laniakeano they showed that the emotions read out from electronic text are completely random. No reliability or correlation at all.
15:55.06brlcadthat's the arrogance I'm referring to, btw
15:55.25brlcadcertainty that you're right based on .. something you read
15:55.27LaniakeaThat's what the scientific study concluded
15:55.38brlcadwith little no consideration that there are other data points?
15:56.02Laniakeawell my experience shows that the study was right
15:56.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (6 files): partially working tree implementation. still some bugs to work out...
15:56.34brlcadand if you were to see a study that shows what I'd said was _also_ true?
15:56.52brlcadit's not a black and white world, rarely ever
15:57.12Laniakeawell then assume I am arrogant
15:57.24LaniakeaI have no intention to be arrogant when writing this so you are getting a false feeling
15:57.56brlcadi'm only responding to your words, regardless of your intent (as perceived or not)
15:58.35Laniakea<PROTECTED>
15:58.39Laniakeanow I am trying this...
15:58.45brlcadthat should work
15:59.01LaniakeaI had to do this also with other programs under OpenBSD
15:59.02brlcadsimilarly using your existing configure and just adding -lm to the libs
15:59.16Laniakeawhich libs where? In Makefile? configure?
15:59.18brlcadi.e., make LIBS=-lm
15:59.29Laniakeaaha
15:59.36Laniakeaand LIBS that's some generic mechanism of make?
15:59.43pooliobrlcad: bu_bomb always crashes my system. it stalls on saving stack trace...and i have to kill -9 it. any suggestions?
15:59.44brlcadof automake
16:00.02brlcadpoolio: it's waiting on the debugger to attach
16:00.06poolioah
16:00.35poolioI guess once the code is workign I shouldn't have to worry about it
16:00.39brlcadyou can turn that off, and probably should if you're debugging something that causes it frequently
16:01.58brlcadpoolio: curious, is HAVE_KILL defined for you in include/brlcad_config.h ?
16:02.39poolioyes
16:04.47Laniakeanow it booms on:
16:04.51brlcadhrm, then the indefinite wait is unintentional, the child should send the parent a signal
16:05.01Laniakea/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl85.a(tclStrToD.o)(.text+0x226f): In function `TclDoubleDigits':
16:05.04Laniakea/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/generic/tclStrToD.c:1822: undefined reference to `log'
16:05.14Laniakeabut why doesn't it link with -lm when I specified LDFLAGS=-lm?
16:05.38brlcadwhat's your link line?
16:05.40Laniakeamake LIBS=-lm gets it through this one, however
16:06.01brlcadoh, you mean setting ldflags before configure
16:06.06Laniakeagcc -pipe -g -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe  -Wl,-export-dynamic  tclAppInit.o -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85  \ -Wl,-rpath,/usr/brlcad/lib -o tclsh
16:06.50Laniakeathe more places you set -lm in, the higher probability there is that it links math library where you want ;-)
16:07.05brlcadtcl does it's own thing with the flags
16:07.14brlcadtheir build system overrides a lot
16:07.36Laniakeanow, another one:
16:07.37Laniakeagcc -pipe -g -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe  -Wl,-export-dynamic  tkAppInit.o -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix -ltk85 \ -L/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tcl/unix -ltcl85  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXss -lXext      -Wl,-rpath,/usr/brlcad/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib -o wish
16:08.30Laniakea/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/unix/libtk85.a(tkEntry.o)(.text+0x4a2a): In function `ComputeFormat':
16:08.34Laniakea/home/clock/brlcad-7.10.0/src/other/tk/generic/tkEntry.c:4346: undefined reference to `log10'
16:08.51Laniakeaany idea how I could fake -lm into the commandline?
16:08.59Laniakeaalias gcc="gcc -lm"?
16:09.19Laniakeadoesn't work :(
16:09.32brlcadheh, right, that only works during link
16:09.39brlcadas either an ldflag or a libs
16:09.45Laniakeareplace /usr/bin/gcc with a script :)
16:10.13brlcadit got past tclsh/wish before you changed configure
16:10.21*** join/#brlcad cad49 (n=4a2edebf@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:14.38pooliobrlcad: where does OVERLAP output come from?
16:14.50Laniakeabrlcad: do you know where the -lm should be added permanently in the brlcad source?
16:15.09brlcadpoolio: from the application struct overlap handler
16:15.49brlcadLaniakea: yes, though it should have worked as a configure parameter
16:16.06brlcad./configure LIBS=-lm --enable-optimized
16:17.20pooliobrlcad: if two objects are unioned, there shouldn't be any overlap, correct?
16:17.54brlcaddepends how they are unioned
16:18.08Laniakeabrlcad: OK, trying that one...
16:18.10brlcada union of two regions could certainly have overlaps
16:18.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: hrm, for some reason the child isn't getting the signal so regardless, don't wait indefinitely for the child to send the signal. only wait up to a minute for a debugger to attach.
16:18.25pooliobrlcad: a union of two sphers that touch each other, does that have "overlap" ?
16:18.48brlcadshooting an rt_i against two spheres can have an overlap (as it will make regions for you)
16:19.31pooliowell, I have a combination, it's the union of two sphers that overlap. doesn't that combination not have any overlap?
16:20.05brlcadit does only because there are no regions defined
16:20.24pooliowait. so would it be better to store it in a region?
16:20.24brlcadlibrt creates regions for you, and happens to create them at the primitive level if none are defined
16:20.39brlcadthat, or override the overlap handler
16:20.50poolioah I see, yeah.
16:20.54brlcadyou don't really care about overlaps
16:21.07brlcadjust define/set the callback like hit/miss
16:21.14poolioAh I see, I hadn't set a default overlap handler, it used the default, and that's where the output came from
16:21.20brlcadyep
16:21.22poolioIf I use a region I don't get the overlap output
16:21.25brlcadbitches by default :)
16:21.39poolioso I might as well just do that instead of writing a null overlap handler
16:22.01brlcaddunno, you really don't need regions
16:22.11brlcadconceptually, you're matching shapes
16:22.19brlcadwhich are regionless groupings
16:22.31poolioyeah, but I don't care how the shapes are stored
16:22.46brlcadif you used that shape in something and that thing becomes a region, you won't have overlaps
16:22.50pooliothe point of combinations is just two group the shapes and allow CSG operations
16:23.19poolioSo I'm just saying in my program, it's easier as a region, (disregarding any sort of conceptual reasons for using regions vs combinations etc..)
16:23.34brlcadeasier as in less code?
16:23.45brlcadi'll give ya that, sure :)
16:23.58brlcadthough setting the handler to null is just one line :)
16:26.48poolioyeah fair enough
16:27.01brlcadhmm
16:27.08brlcadproblem though.. that means your segments are wrong
16:27.19brlcadunless you compensate
16:27.23brlcadwhich would be tricky
16:27.26pooliojij
16:27.28pooliooops. huh?
16:27.55pooliooh because the segments aren't part of hit, they go to overlap?
16:27.58brlcadlibrt is creating regions for you, so for two overlapping spheres, you're not going to get one long segment, you'll get two overlapping segments
16:27.59poolioso I need to proces overlaps then
16:28.16brlcador just make it a region, and it'll do it for you
16:28.30poolioalright. so I'd say just leave it as a region?
16:28.35brlcadsure
16:28.52brlcadbtw, I forgot about rt_bound_tree()
16:29.07brlcadcomputes the bounding box of a given union tree
16:29.28brlcadmight be of use
16:30.37pooliowell rt_bound_tree() is called when you extrat the rt_i from the db
16:30.48brlcadright
16:30.58brlcadit's more if you needed to recompute based on in-mem geometry
16:31.06brlcadwithout writing out to disk or somesuch
16:31.09poolioyeah
16:31.23poolioI'm doing a lot of read from disk, modify, write over and over
16:31.30Laniakeabrlcad: still compiling...
16:31.40poolioIt might be better to just keep in memory and write
16:31.52poolioand eliminate the need for reading from disck
16:31.58pooliohrmph. *disc / *disk
16:32.13brlcadpoolio: grep SIGCHLD /usr/include/sys/signal.h
16:33.28poolionadda
16:33.40pooliooh wait
16:34.09poolionope, still nothing.
16:34.43brlcadhm, that could potentially be why
16:34.49brlcadgrep -r SIGCHLD /usr/include/*
16:36.46poolioit's in /usr/include/asm-[generic,i486,x86_64]/signal.h
16:37.52brlcadk
16:39.02pooliowould you like more system info or are you good?
16:40.59pooliobrlcad: so I'm trying to write an object to a new database with a different name. The issue I think I'm having is that I'm using db_rename() and it modifies the in-memory database object list. Is there a way to write an internal object with a different name without modifying the db_i? Like just modify the dp?
16:41.16poolio(dp = struct directory *)
16:45.08brlcadi'm good for now, trying to see why the debugger would hang like that
16:45.19brlcads/debugger/backtrace routine/
16:45.45poolioalright, just tell me if I can do anything
16:51.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: if libstdc++ fails to link, see if it's because of libm (encountered by Laniakea on OpenBSD)
16:56.01Laniakeabrlcad: still compiling... :)
16:57.31brlcadthat should take care of it
16:57.43brlcadit trys with -lm if it fails without it
16:58.19brlcadthough I suspect you might have a bigger system issue if libc is the same way.. then setting a global libs (like you're running now) is really required
16:58.23brlcadand specific to that plat
17:01.26pooliobrlcad: I'm having an issue if I rename a directory * pointer, it somehow modifies the in-memory database representation?
17:07.54MinuteElectronsilly css foolishness.
17:09.13brlcadpoolio: a directory pointer? how you renaming it?
17:09.39poolioFirst I had db_rename()
17:09.45poolioand I saw that rehashes the db_i
17:10.05poolioso now I'm using RT_DIR_FREE_NAMEP() and RT_DIR_SET_NAMEP() macros
17:27.13pooliobrlcad: I'm still stuck. Can't see why I'm getting the bug :\
17:27.19brlcadpoolio: still not sure I understand the problem .. those macros only set the name of the directory pointer in memory
17:29.15poolioYeah, that's what I thought.
17:29.32poolioThe problem is that I run a routine that copies a shape to a new databse with a different name
17:29.52pooliothe issue is when I re-run this on the same shape and try to copy it toa new database with a different name, I get a db_lookup failure on the shape I"m trying to copy
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17:35.14brlcadpoolio: can you make a simple test case snippet that shows this?
17:35.21pooliobrlcad: just did
17:35.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c): more reasonable debugging output
17:35.25pooliobrlcad: I just updated CVS
17:35.30poolioWell it's not a simple test case
17:35.36pooliobut it's the issue in the context of the entire program...
17:35.37brlcadyeah, i mean stand-alone
17:35.52brlcadstill should be able to reproduce it with just a couple lines, no?
17:36.11poolioI'm willing to bet the test case will work fine though :P
17:37.15brlcadI suspect the lookup fails because you've changed the name, and either don't write it out correctly/fully or are otherwise creating an inconsistent db_i
17:38.36poolioyeah that's probably it, just have been looking pretty hard and haven't found anything
17:43.16Laniakeabrlcad: now it compiles, thanks
18:13.12Laniakeabrlcad: compiles and installs, but explodes when mged is ran:
18:13.13Laniakeaversion conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
18:13.14LaniakeaMGED Aborted.
18:13.36Laniakeart however runs
18:13.48Laniakea(at least prints the help)
18:13.55Laniakeartedge as well
18:14.01Laniakeartweight too
18:31.36pooliobrlcad: I have a test case if you have a minute.
18:32.46pooliobrlcad: how would you like it? pastebin?
18:36.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: capture stderr so that the kern.exec message is not displayed (on os x) during sysctl
18:36.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: make sure the string we're trying to print isn't null or empty, don't write the stacktrace message to the tty.
18:38.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c:
18:38.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: flush the output before sending the signal so that the parent should be
18:38.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: guaranteed to have something to read. this should hopefully fix a race
18:38.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: condition where the child would never get the signal to continue. fixed </>
18:38.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: logic bug so we now actually wait a minute instead of immediately continuing.
18:40.28pooliobrlcad: Fixed. thanks!
18:40.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/mged/cmd.c src/mged/cmd.h NEWS): make 'bomb' an actual new command, passing through to bu_bomb(). very useful for debugging, tracing, and aborting from scripts abruptly.
18:41.13poolio(bu_bomb, not my annoying whatever it is)
18:46.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: make all platforms use the same code for creating std in/out/err file channel handlers, using the newer Tcl_MakeFileChannel instead of Tcl_CreateFileHandler. keep track of how many events we process for debugging.
18:49.05pooliobrlcad: I'm guessing rt_db_get/put_internal does something to the database as well as the directory pointer
19:01.18IriX64http://rafb.net/p/wODjDo87.html have a problem here
19:01.29IriX64brb
19:02.14*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601584.dsl.bell.ca)
19:02.28IriX64how do I fix that
19:03.50IriX64if I enable tcl-build will they co-exist?
19:08.25IriX64trying it
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19:32.26iraytraceHola Que tal?
19:37.36*** join/#brlcad cadguy (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
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20:44.19pooliobrlcad: I'm off for the day, but maybe sometime earlier tomorrow you can give me a hand troubleshooting this. I've got a test case that demonstrates the problem too
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21:23.50IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/controlpanel.png    heh it works :)
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21:28.38cadguyGood afternoon all
22:06.41brlcadpoolio: okay, sounds good .. post up the test case somewhere where I can get to it
23:04.18``Erikbahhhhhhhh
23:04.30``ErikI forgot I turned off my hot water tank when I left, so now I have to wait for my shower *sigh*
23:11.56IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/works.png  :) as i said it works
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23:47.34louipcneat-o
23:57.26IriX64louipc? Toronto?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070711

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070711

00:00.20IriX64Sympatico serves us out of Sudbury (along with most of the north) trough Sudbury
00:20.14``Erikdamn canucks
00:20.57``Erik8.5a6 as in tcl? an installed version? I still build tcl and tk with my builds :/
00:32.37IriX64yeah man it does not pass
00:33.02IriX64trying to build the supplied libs now
00:46.04louipcIriX64: yep
00:46.18louipcI finally got my phone/net connection fixed
00:46.45louipcI had to call 3 times and get 3 repairmen to come
01:03.58IriX64heh 3rd times.... :)  or is that 3 strikes you're out :)
01:07.55IriX64blargh reboot time... l8r
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04:08.28*** part/#brlcad jlowens (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:22.01pooliobrlcad: you still up?
04:32.12brlcadof course
04:33.22pooliobrlcad: want to have a look at the problem I was having from before? (test case)
04:37.55brlcadsure
04:41.08pooliobrlcad: Can I just email you the .c  file and a simple .g ?
04:41.16brlcadyou have access to .bz?
04:41.34poolionope
04:41.51brlcadhuh, wierd
04:41.53poolioI don't know what it is so I doubt I have it
04:41.59poolioor I could have it and jus tnot know about it
04:42.16brlcadnope, you're right .. you don't
04:42.33pooliois this a freenode thing?
04:42.50brlcadno, it's an account on the project server
04:43.28pooliothis: http://bz.bzflag.bz/ ?
04:43.29brlcadmachine's fqdn is bz.bzflag.bz but is aka my.brlcad.org among other names
04:43.45brlcad.bz or mbo for short
04:44.00poolioalright. and what type of access am I getting / how can I use it?
04:44.39brlcadit's a pretty comprehensive account with a lot of resources
04:45.01brlcaddetails and rest of setup in priv
05:38.25brlcadgot it
05:38.30poolioalright
05:38.31brlcadand nah, it's fine
05:38.37pooliok
05:39.14pooliocan you see the issue or would you like a little explanation?
05:39.26pooliothe issue might just be me misunderstanding how the lookup/internal routines work
05:46.32poolioI previously used rt_db_lookup_internal instead of db_lookup/rt_db_get_internal but moved to the latter in hopes of eliminating the error/issue
05:53.28brlcadahha
05:53.39pooliouh oh.
05:53.49brlcadthe same reason that db_rename wouldn't work for you, similar exists for renaming that dp you looked up
05:54.19pooliobut how? I thought renaming the dp only changed the dp, how is it effecting the in-memory db?
05:54.41brlcadthe db_i holds the directory
05:55.02brlcaddb_lookup scans the directory hash in the db_i, and returns the pointer to that directory pointer
05:55.16brlcadso when you modify it, you've modified the current db_i
05:55.20poolioahhh
05:55.34poolioso is there any way around it other than changing the dp back to the original name?
05:55.45brlcadhence the next lookup fails, because the entry is no longer in the directory hash
05:56.46brlcadlet me see if I can find it, there's a few ways to get a copy
05:57.23poolioa copy of the dp? It seems like it's just as efficient to copy the name, change the name, write to new database, change the name to original name
05:59.10brlcadhm?
05:59.21brlcadthe dp is an entry from the first db_i
05:59.40brlcadif you modify it in any way, you're modifying the directory for the first db_i (which you probably don't want)
06:00.08pooliocorrect. so in terms of most efficient / least space, wouldn't it make the most sense to just rename it and then change it back to its original name?
06:00.21pooliowell I don't really want that, but it's acceptable
06:02.15brlcadhm, that might work, but you'd probably need to dig a little deeper into db_put_internal to be certain
06:04.08brlcadthe approach taken elsewhere is to do the lookup on A to get the dp, do a db_get_external for his representation, do a db_diradd on B (which gives you a new dp), then db_put_external to write the copy
06:04.22brlcadthat same approach should work for internal format too
06:06.34brlcadthe issue with the internal, though, is that it keeps track of the object's offset in the file, so need to make sure db_put doesn't use it
06:07.13poolioalthough that solution looks more elegant it looks to be a lot more overhead :)
06:07.43brlcadthese are all pretty lightweight calls
06:09.53poolioah. I get the offset problem anyway, both calls work but I guess the internal objects have the same offset
06:12.06poolioso how would I go about fixing the offset issue? just keep a counter of what offset we're at in the database?
06:12.53brlcadhm, i was actually just looking at put_internal and don't see where offset would be a problem
06:13.10pooliowell in my updated test case only the second object appears
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06:14.14brlcadah, never mind, I found it
06:17.37brlcadyeah, you're going to have to use what I'd said
06:17.55brlcadget the external form, write that out into the second after doing a db_diradd
06:19.52pooliohmm. I can't seem to remember why I was using internal anyway...I'll have to read the structs later
06:20.20brlcadsee src/librt/wdb_obj.c:2973 for an example that does this in a single db_i, but should work almost as-is for two db_i's
06:21.07pooliothanks :)
06:24.12pooliobrlcad: alright, my eyes hurt, I'll get it all working tomorrow. Thanks again for the help and hosting
06:25.27brlcadaiight
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08:35.19Laniakeabrlcad: clock@kestrel:~$ mged
08:35.20LaniakeaInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
08:35.20Laniakeaversion conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
08:35.20LaniakeaMGED Aborted.
08:35.30Laniakeabrlcad: any idea what's going wrong?
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12:46.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/TclDummies.c: added NewDoubleObj and NewIntObj
13:01.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp:
13:01.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: added missing return statement
13:01.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: made sign() static
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14:35.34pooliobrlcad: Is there an internal->external method?
14:36.03poolioI saw the external to internal one, and the export method on the internal, but using the ft_export() function it appears to corrupt the database
14:36.19poolioand If I read an external, run external->internal, and modify the internal, then write the external, nothing is changed
14:38.06pooliobrlcad: hmm, I think the problem I was having with the export method was that there's more to do. I was just copying the <5 database routine, but the db5 routine has much more stuff. it looks like I'm going to have to copy/modify that
15:59.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c population.h): fixed issue with renaming directory pointers, combination trees are now supported
16:27.52*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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16:54.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/doc/brep.txt: Initial BREP primitive document; contains info on concepts and development status of the primitive
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17:15.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: make NumIntersections iterative instead of recursive; perform thirds split when split bounds get too close - may need to be adjusted to a different criterion later
17:19.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: oops, fabs (not abs)
17:31.37*** join/#brlcad lude0 (n=lude@Ra79f.r.pppool.de)
17:32.21lude0howdy folks!
17:36.33lude0i got an error afer i built brlcad from cvs saying: dyld:Symbol not found: _TkStatePrintProc
17:37.00lude0does anybody know what that means
17:38.43brlcadhowdy lude0
17:39.22brlcadlude0: yeah, that's a libtk linkage issue with brl-cad's libtclcad
17:40.10brlcadi believe that error is fixed on the latest cvs head sources
17:42.58lude0yippey, when will it be released?
17:43.07brlcad"soon" :)
17:43.24brlcadstill have to get the replacement spline working
17:43.42brlcadsoon as in a couple days, however long it takes to get the beziers rendering
17:44.14lude0so there are a few more bugs er?
17:45.37lude0if i try the mac os bin i get en error "wrong architecture" Im working on an intel based mac
17:46.08lude0any idea about that?
17:46.17brlcadit's not a bug, it's just a change being made to one of the panels
17:47.04brlcadyeah, the mac os x binaries were last released before the intel build and apple's dist of X11 has a bug that makes opengl apps not work under rosetta on intel macs
17:47.18lude0grml...
17:47.19brlcadyou can still run console mode, iirc (mged -c)
17:47.30brlcadas well as the other command-line apps
17:48.14lude0i never used brlcad so im not firm in it anyway...
17:56.00lude0thx for your help...
17:56.22brlcadno problem
17:56.56brlcadthe documentation on the website is a good starting point and easily several hours of "training" needed for getting familiarized
17:57.50brlcadthere are docs installed with the binary distributions in the share/brlcad/version doc and html subdirectories, even cover running in "mged -c" classic mode
18:07.15Laniakeabrlcad: any idea what's with the mged?
18:07.47LaniakeaInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
18:07.47Laniakeaversion conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
18:07.47LaniakeaMGED Aborted.
18:10.44lude0by
18:10.49*** part/#brlcad lude0 (n=lude@Ra79f.r.pppool.de)
18:15.28IriX64Laniakea mine says version mismatch for tcl, have 8.5a6 need 8.4-8.5
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18:20.41IriX64Laniakea mine says version mismatch for tcl, have 8.5a6 need 8.4-8.5 or words to that effect, did you use system libs too?
19:00.06IriX64try re-installing tcl/tk i guess (8.5a5 that is ) i'll be back
19:19.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: Sorry about the slowness reegarding the website this week. I misjudged things totally and now have several huge things I have to finish soon. Hopefully this weekend I will get a day 09:00 => 00:00 of nearly uninteruptted coding so should be able to finish off most of the stuff I have to do and maybe get round to populating the wiki and drupal.
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21:17.40*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
21:20.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/doc/brep.txt: couple more notes
21:22.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/plot3.h: add common.h; enable explicit C linkage
21:22.31brlcadMinuteElectron: no problem, thank you for your persistance.. it's coming along bit by bit :)
21:23.05pooliobrlcad: I'm out for the evening, ta ta :)
21:23.28brlcadpoolio: any progress?  looked like you got tree copying working
21:23.42pooliotree copying working. this afternoon I tweaked the GA
21:23.51poolioThe linDiff function wasn't working quite right
21:23.57poolioand then I tried to get it to work using just reproduction but that failed
21:24.11brlcadcool
21:24.12poolioTomorrow I'll try to get mutation up and running, and then crossover :)
21:24.16brlcadhow's it doing crossover?
21:24.18brlcadah, not yet
21:24.19poolioOnce all that is working I'll test it out
21:24.21pooliocrossover is easy
21:24.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: add support for plotting rays and intersection points to stdout during debug - see why we get the wrong thing! still can't see the individual points yet
21:24.28poolioJust pick two nodes on two trees, and swap them
21:24.46brlcadeasy as pi
21:24.48poolioor pick a node on one tree, and a node on the second, and move the node from the firs tree to the node on the second, wiping out the node on the second
21:24.57poolioWell it seems pretty easy not that it's in a nice tree format
21:25.15pooliomutation is what's going to be the pain -- writing a case for each shape, modifying the specific data, etc...
21:25.33brlcadswapping nodes with a percentage of new "material injection" should do the trick
21:25.37poolioonce all that is up and going a lot of work is going to be put into tweaking the GA, modifying the approach a little, etc...
21:25.56poolionot sure what you mean by new material injection?
21:26.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: add an "earlier" check for small clipping segments (value stolen from Stay's code)... haven't tested it yet
21:26.27poolioWell, I can try that too. Would be interesting, and it's closer to the standard bit string encoding
21:26.53poolioalright I have to go, seeing Harry potter  8) but I'll be on late tonight. Hopefully this week will continue to be productive
21:29.28brlcadoh it came out tonight?
21:30.26brlcadah, so it did
21:30.35brlcadooh, playing on imax
21:33.02brlcadbtw, i was entirely kidding about tweaking the encoding bits -- almost certainly would not work as the encoding is not like "standard bit string encoding" as there are massive subsets of bit manipulations that are "poison" in that they would represent geometry that is entirely "impossible"/invalid/useless
21:33.55brlcadwould be like tweaking a DNA sequence a GTACGGTTCA and ending up with something other than G, T, A, or C .. it's off the problem domain
21:48.43dtidrow_workhttp://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/11/1246250 - will it blend....
22:33.01dtidrow_workhttp://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=novell - this one has an especially funny quip in it  ;-)
22:34.16dtidrow_workmake sure BOFH doesn't get one of these, or else his users will start to 'disappear'...
22:55.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: prevent 'inverted' min/max bounds from causing autoview to become -INFINITY or otherwise negative in size, this fixes bad behavior in mged where autoview of an empty sketch was causing bad view parameters.
23:13.36tarzeauhah 7.8.0 works!
23:15.40tarzeau/usr/brlcad/bin/
23:15.40tarzeauzsh: do you wish to see all 433 possibilities (109 lines)?
23:15.42tarzeauhow do i start it?
23:18.32tarzeauhm sorting the dir size of files is helpful...
23:19.14``Erik'mged' is probbly a good start
23:19.37``Erikbofh++
23:23.13``Erik"if you find yourself fantasizing about throwing actual users in the blender; please get help. They're heavy."
23:23.44dtidrow_workyeah, that was where I was roflol
23:26.00dtidrow_workheh
23:26.07*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:26.26dtidrow_worknot for that reason, though - for their unholy alliance with M$...
23:35.15louipcglass dust don't breathe it!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070712

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070712

04:47.53*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
04:47.53*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
04:59.31pooliooff to sleep, ta ta.
05:09.14brlcadsee ya poolio
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06:23.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs.h opennurbs_curve.h): include assert.h, thx louipc
08:00.34*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:08.06brlcadwoo hoo! bezier curves are now rendering nicely
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08:08.48yukonbob=)
08:10.15brlcadgoodbye custom tk mod
08:12.17Laniakea_brlcad: could you please advise me on this error?
08:12.21Laniakea_clock@kestrel:~$ mged
08:12.21Laniakea_Initializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
08:12.21Laniakea_version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
08:12.21Laniakea_MGED Aborted.
08:12.55brlcadsounds like you've got an inconsistent build
08:13.16brlcadhalf linking against the sources provided and partially against something already installed
08:13.49brlcadalready installed seems to be reporting 33 during a package require, it should be 3.3
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08:36.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/skt_ed.tcl: (log message trimmed)
08:36.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: reimplement bezier curve drawing for the sketch editor so that it no longer uses
08:36.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: the tkCanvasBezier custom tk modification, instead just using simple tk line
08:36.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: segment drawing, but sampling/evaluating the bezier as needed. code for
08:36.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: calc_bezier was taken directly from the C code and is of course a bit slower
08:36.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: since it's in tcl, but certainly fast enough for most purposes where the degree
08:36.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: of the bezier curve is relatively low. that should be pulled back to C land as
08:37.52Laniakea1brlcad: what should I do to make mged work in 7.10.0?
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14:57.15pooliolate start today :\ had to redo paperwork...
14:57.37pooliobrlcad: you're up late, geez.
15:18.48brlcadpoolio: :)
15:22.40pooliobrlcad: which should I do first: mutation or crossover? have your pick :)
15:35.09pooliocrossover it is.
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17:33.17pooliobrlcad: ugh. as with everything I seem to be having issues.
17:57.07brlcadyeah crossover ;)
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18:30.37pooliobrlcad: I'm having the same issue I was having with renaming now. Trying to modify the union tree without writing it to the database...
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19:35.38MinuteElectronlol, I have had the same two files open for the past week.
19:37.21pooliohave they changed?
19:37.27poolioa CSS and an html?
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19:37.45IriX64MinuteElectron, week? here total uptime usually doesn't get past a couple of hours :)
19:38.00MinuteElectronIriX64: On brlcad's server.
19:38.11MinuteElectronpoolio: correct.
19:38.16IriX64thought you meant on your pc
19:38.30MinuteElectronno, lol - mine foes off every night (wish it didn't though)
19:38.53IriX64i don't even have to do anything, just seems to "happen"
19:39.00MinuteElectronhehe
19:40.42IriX64warning brlcad doesn't appear to be installed yet... DOH!! I know that i'm *trying to install you :)
19:42.02IriX64i'll install it that'll fix that problem :)
19:45.03IriX64MinuteElectron: Winfreeze takes on whole new meaning here :)
19:45.31MinuteElectron:D
19:45.37IriX64;)
19:47.53IriX64make -i
19:48.08IriX64sorry
19:48.22MinuteElectronlol
19:50.04MinuteElectronDon't you just hate it when stuff that should Just Work (tm) doesn't.
19:51.10IriX64MinuteElectron, I hate it more when it has undocumented features that shut your system down
19:51.10MinuteElectron:{
19:51.10MinuteElectron*:P
19:53.33IriX64now I have two manuals to read tonight, how to use irssi and how to use brlcad :)
19:54.04MinuteElectron:D
19:54.16poolioirssi is easy
19:54.23pooliobrlcad...not so much
19:54.27MinuteElectronindeed, just go with the flow
19:54.35MinuteElectronin irssi /help is your friend.
19:54.44IriX64intuitive i like it :)
19:55.07IriX64lots of command in irssi
19:55.12IriX64+s
19:55.26MinuteElectronlol
19:56.09IriX64methinks I hear a soul chortling says God :)
19:58.18MinuteElectrontest
20:03.42AchiestDragonIriX64:   dont forget the microsof undocumented features manual ,, but it wont be mutch help
20:04.05IriX64man it's all whitespace :)
20:05.04AchiestDragonyes  19300 pages of witespaces ,, at least you wont run out of ink printing it out
20:05.27IriX64thought that was the system API list
20:08.47IriX64my stomach is snarling at me, i'll be back in a bit
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20:26.41IriX64are there any example geometry files available to test this thing with?
20:30.44IriX64thanks people, sorry to have troubled you.
20:52.37pooliobrlcad: i'm gonna punch myself in the face again. The reason for my confusion was i had the parameters of one routine as (child, parent) and the other one was (parent,child) and I was calling them with the wrong pointers :\
21:15.34SuperTazpoolio: always use a standardized calling convention ;)
21:15.48poolioYeah, yeah.
21:16.12poolioSome of the other brl-cad libraries aren't standardized and it's a pain having to look up the prototypes each time...my memory is awful like that
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21:36.34pooliobrlcad: Hmm, I think I'm too frustrated to see the problem. I'm out for a while.
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21:51.19alejandrohello
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22:14.50louipchi
22:16.39emtpychello
22:55.33brlcadhola alejandro
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23:10.49IriX64``Erik, I'm so happy, I finally got into that april g file :)
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23:57.25louipcbrlcad: I think you uploaded the same opennurbs.h as before :D
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070713

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070713

00:01.32pooliolouipc: is the assert error still there?
00:01.59louipcyeah
00:03.37pooliohmm
00:03.57poolioI think he just added the header to opennurbs_curve.h when he meant to add it to opennurbs_system.h
00:04.20louipcor opennurbs.h
00:05.05pooliono, opennurbs.h is just for the opennurbs header files
00:05.44louipcah
00:05.51poolioI'm going to add it to opennurbs_system.h  and remove it from the other one, one sec
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00:15.06pooliolouipc: should be fixed, cvs update and it should be good
00:15.24CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/ (opennurbs_system.h opennurbs_curve.h): include assert.h moved from opennurbs_curve.h to opennurbs_system.h
00:48.32alejandrobrlcad are u there?
01:48.32*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@155.101.198.193)
03:00.22alejandroMaking all in bwish
03:00.23alejandromake[2]: Entering directory `/usr/brlcad/src/bwish'
03:00.23alejandrogcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-cmd.o `test -f 'cmd.c' || echo './'`cmd.c
03:00.23alejandrogcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-input.o `test -f 'input.c' || echo './'`input.c
03:00.25alejandrogcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-main.o `test -f 'main.c' || echo './'`main.c
03:00.29alejandrogcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../include   -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../include -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -c -o btclsh-tcl.o `test -f 'tcl.c' || echo './'`tcl.c
03:00.35alejandro/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --tag=CC  --silent --mode=link gcc -I../../src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/generic -I../../src/other/tcl/unix -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3  -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -O3 -o btclsh btclsh-cmd.o btclsh-input.o btclsh-main.o btclsh-tcl.o ../../src/libtclcad/libtclcad.la -L../../src/other/tk/unix -ltk8.5 -lXss -
03:00.40alejandrolXext -lX11 -lX11 -L../../src/other/tcl/unix -ltclstub8.5 ../../src/librt/librt.la -lc -lm ../../src/libsysv/libsysv.la ../../src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ ../../src/libbu/libbu.la ../../src/libdm/libdm.la -lpng -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11  ../../src/libfb/libfb.la ../../src/libbu/l
03:00.44alejandro../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
03:00.46alejandro../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XOpenDevice'
03:00.48alejandro../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XSelectExtensionEvent'
03:00.50alejandro../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XListInputDevices'
03:00.52alejandroany ideas??
03:02.00poolioalejandro: Do not paste that much text. Use a pastebin in the future.
03:04.17alejandrookis!
03:04.19alejandrosorry!
03:05.52poolioalejandro: It looks like your X libraries do not have some certain routines that are required
03:08.11alejandrohow can i solved this?
03:08.31alejandroI ve search over the net and no answers!
03:09.44alejandroi am using fedora 7
03:15.25poolioi'm not sure, your best bet is to wait for brlcad to come back. He's the guru.
03:16.12alejandrook, thanks! i will continue trying
03:18.58louipcpoolio: ok thanks
03:24.05pooliolouipc: did it compile? that might have been worth testing before committing...
03:24.58louipcI'm testing it
03:25.27louipcbut someone has a lock on src/off so I'm waiting to update
04:25.44brlcadalejandro: more specifically, it looks like you're missing a specific X11 library on that link line -- what version of BRL-CAD are you compiling there?
04:44.41SuperTazbrlcad: was it as funny as it looks?
04:47.26brlcadhehe, yeah, it's pretty good
04:47.39brlcadright in league with Pixar's other films
05:27.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: (log message trimmed)
05:27.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: WOO HOO... tkCanvasBezier, the custom Tk extension that has complicated matters
05:27.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: for getting into apt, portage, fink, and more is now no longer needed. The
05:27.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: sketch editor's bezier drawing code was rewritten to no longer use that canvas
05:27.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: and instead just draw using ordinary Tk line segments, but evaluating the bezier
05:27.52CIA-29BRL-CAD: curve directly just like the canvas was doing. This was the last feature
05:27.54CIA-29BRL-CAD: holding up release 7.10.2 so we're now on the green light for compilation and
05:31.26louipcyahoo
05:39.04brlcadno kidding, that's been a LONG time coming
05:39.49brlcadalmost worthy of 7.12 in and of itself, but not quite
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20:21.45CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/doc/brep.txt: Add a few more updates for things I thought of today; fix some wording
20:23.39CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/brep.h: Muck with tolerances a bit (they may not be the problem right now - i'm currently thinking its a trimming issue)
20:25.33CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: tightened up the surface flatness (trying to solve the problem where bboxes don't fully enclose all points on their subsurface); expanded degenerate bboxes (i.e. for planar surfaces)
20:26.36CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: add note
20:28.37CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_brep.cpp: add more data for debugging and hit processing (i.e. label oob hits and record the subsurface bounding volume); add plotting routines for debugging shotlines graphically in MGED
20:30.22CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/librt/opennurbs_ext.cpp: mod subsurface bounding box calculations, i.e. sample more elements of the surface to try and include more points; expand bounding boxes a bit to overlap; expansion should be model size dependent (but it's not)
20:32.55CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs.h: quell my openNURBS debugging statements
21:11.29brlcadawesome
21:11.48brlcadcoverity has agreed/offered to do a code analysis on brl-cad
21:12.54brlcadMinuteElectron: looking snazzy :)
21:13.46MinuteElectron:) - the website?
21:13.53brlcadyep :)
21:13.56MinuteElectronthxs
21:14.59MinuteElectronstill got to fix the tabs, get rid of that horizontal line in Safari, Fx and Opera, finish the footer and add the box with text in to the header.
21:15.15MinuteElectronand fix the sidebar, it looks ugly atm
21:16.53brlcadyeah, there probably won't be a login on the main page, as that's not really central to operations .. it'd probably have a page of its own and/or be on other sections of the site like the community section
21:17.05MinuteElectronok
21:21.15MinuteElectronbrlcad: I am considering scrapping the sidebar altogether - what do you think?
21:24.38brlcadthere is certainly content that can go in a sidebar, just matters on the layout
21:25.49MinuteElectronFrom what I can tell the only content that will be going in the sidebar (even on the MediaWiki side of things) is the adminisration navigation which is far from important. Can you suggest anything?
21:25.50brlcadi'd say try it out, see what you like
21:25.57brlcadhard to say without more content populating
21:26.34MinuteElectronok
21:30.15brlcadThings that come to mind are quick-links to the most requested content (like downloads, specific documents), and items that show activity (maybe recent comments, recent new documents, syndication feeds)
21:31.10brlcada summary graph of benchmark performance, for example, would make a great little panel for the main page (which would take you to the benchmark database site, of course)
21:31.39brlcadrandom geometry or image of the day might be another if it can be done tastefully
21:32.10MinuteElectronkl
21:33.33MinuteElectronOkay, I am frustrated at CSS - I will do more work on the site tomorrow but I am frustrated now.
21:35.22brlcadahh
21:35.29brlcadsomething I can help with maybe?
21:35.42brlcadi'm no css guru to say the least, but i can pretend
21:37.23MinuteElectronheh. either my image is broken or the css is broken - I can't tell because I have been up for over 14 hours and can't concentrate.
21:37.31brlcadahh, hehe
21:37.41brlcadcorner2.png I presume
21:37.53MinuteElectronyeo
21:37.57MinuteElectron*yep
21:38.11MinuteElectronthe image displays in my browser - so i think it is the css
21:38.31brlcadyeah, I think so
21:39.07MinuteElectronI have this: <a id="searchcorner"></a>
21:39.39MinuteElectronand a css id style for adding the corner2 background image and positiioning it at top:10px;left:210px;
21:40.08MinuteElectronok, 10px is not a good value
21:40.25MinuteElectronthat would be hidden byt eh entire header.
21:42.16MinuteElectronok, still not working.
21:42.26brlcadhm
21:43.14brlcadyou did the top corner with a style and id on an a tag
21:43.41brlcadmaybe do the same and tag it off the button
21:43.42MinuteElectronyeah, that was because that corner needs to change when that page is visited.
21:43.44MinuteElectronok
21:43.48MinuteElectronI will try.
21:44.24MinuteElectrondammit
21:44.32MinuteElectronIt would help if I invoked position:absolute;
21:46.13MinuteElectronand if I gave it a height and width
21:47.59brlcadahh
21:48.12brlcadwoot, there it is :)
21:48.26MinuteElectron:D
21:48.49dtidrow_worksomebody had a Homer moment?  ;-)
21:49.00MinuteElectronyeh lol
21:49.06brlcadmm.. donuts
21:53.35MinuteElectronooh ooh look now
21:54.43brlcadhaha, awesome
21:54.48brlcad~minuteelectron++
21:56.00brlcadoop, it's layered above the menu
21:56.07MinuteElectron...
21:57.00brlcadcourse if a tab was selected, it's probably still look just as odd compressed
21:57.21MinuteElectronI don't understand.
21:57.44brlcadmake your window small so the tabs underlap the search
21:58.24MinuteElectronOh, I see.
21:58.26brlcadminor detail, it's fine :)
21:58.26MinuteElectronOne sec.
21:59.36MinuteElectronfixed
21:59.49MinuteElectronwell, not really
22:00.22brlcadheh
22:00.23MinuteElectronmaybe if I made the search box a few pixels lower.
22:00.44brlcadyeah, it's have to not include the white line, then could stay on top
22:07.05MinuteElectronbrlcad: fixed
22:08.06brlcadheh, damn
22:08.19MinuteElectrondamn?
22:08.23brlcaddamn nice
22:08.27brlcadyou're quite
22:08.32brlcads/quite/quick/
22:08.43MinuteElectronheh, getting used to CSS layers now.
22:08.44brlcadso thoughts on the direction?
22:08.51MinuteElectrondirection?
22:08.53brlcaddesign/look/feel
22:08.58MinuteElectronahh,
22:09.23MinuteElectronwell at the moment I think it looks good, only the footer to go mainly - thinking \. style.
22:09.33MinuteElectronwould make a nice contrast.
22:09.56MinuteElectronteh sidebar is ugly though - still not sure about it
22:10.17MinuteElectronand the tabs need aligning and the line underneath them removing
22:10.18brlcadI think simple ovals would probably work out nice
22:10.27brlcadflat shaded
22:10.33MinuteElectronin the sidebar?
22:10.37brlcadyeah
22:10.39brlcadfor the blocks
22:10.59MinuteElectronthat can be done.
22:11.03brlcadjust a thought though, there are lots of possibilities
22:11.27brlcadI can try something if you like or can leave it in your hands, whatever works for you :)
22:13.29MinuteElectronwe can collaborate I guess, you are far better at graphic manipulation than I am - perhaps if you can put together a few corner pieces - that would be nice. Also a different colored header of the blocks would look nice.
22:15.50brlcadyou mean like where a section label might go?
22:16.29MinuteElectronhmm, let me find an example.
22:17.10MinuteElectronhttp://www.google.com/ig - each of the blocks has a header with a different color - I can imagine something like that but with curves.
22:17.49brlcadmkay, i'll try some things
22:18.02MinuteElectronkl
22:50.26MinuteElectronSo tired. I will fix the minor bugs in the site and add a footer tomorrow. Goodnight.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070714

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070714

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00:52.07IriX64hi
00:55.07IriX64I wonder if this has been reported, creating a metaball crashes mged
00:55.42IriX64version 7.8.4 is mine
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05:30.08thing0hey yall
05:36.52brlcadhowdy thing0
05:45.24thing0how you been brlcad?
05:45.35brlcadpretty good, busy like crazy
05:45.40thing0hehe
05:45.46thing0yeah work is quite intense
05:45.52thing0barely get time to stop and eat
05:45.54thing0hehe
05:47.41brlcadoh, my belly indicates that I do still find time for that
05:47.52brlcadthough I don't usually stop even when eating ;)
05:48.50thing0hehe
05:48.52thing0yeah
05:49.06thing0it just means I have to wonder back to the office to get the food
05:49.17thing0I worked through lunch yesterday getting materials for a job
05:49.36thing0but I fly out this wednesday
05:49.42thing0so I get to have a break for a while
05:51.18thing0had two paid days off last week
05:51.25thing0cause of acid plant startup
05:51.39thing0it started up with no issues once one of the lines were unblocked
05:52.12thing0it is very good for the company I work for
05:52.12thing0shows we are competent
05:52.12thing0;)
05:55.00brlcadacid plant?
05:55.18brlcadyou're trippin'? :)
05:57.11thing0hehe
05:57.16thing0that's why weren
05:57.23thing0't allowed at work
05:57.26thing0incase of poisoning
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15:54.23louipcmorning
16:40.54brlcadhowdy
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18:46.04*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-110-150.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:15.44*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-081-160.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:30.58*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878962.dsl.bell.ca)
20:32.17IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/hex.c    a little routine written by a friend of my son's to produce capscrews to whatever pitch you want writing out a .g file for you
20:37.06brlcadIriX64: erm, where'd that come from?
20:37.27brlcadseems actually like a useful tool with the right polish
20:37.46IriX64friend of my sons
20:38.22IriX64just talked to him, says its yours if you want it
20:39.11brlcadcurious how/why he wrote it
20:39.49brlcadalso curious that he chose the ascii format instead of libwdb directly :)
20:39.58IriX64I was fooling with brlcad and he decided to help, he's really good
20:40.08IriX64asc2g thats why, we're lazy :)
20:42.36brlcadcan you get jamie to post it to the patches tracker?
20:42.44brlcadhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804
20:43.09brlcader, http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=105292&atid=640804
20:43.30IriX64he's doing it
20:44.06IriX64why patches?
20:44.23IriX64this is a littl tool
20:45.48IriX64Irssi is fun :)
20:46.13brlcadit's a change, changes go into the patches tracker
20:46.34IriX64he thanks you
20:46.35brlcadthat gives a means to comment on and document where first-additions come from when it's someone new
20:46.49brlcadthanks me? he wrote it
20:46.54brlcadpretty nifty tool
20:46.54IriX64understood
20:47.03IriX64he's *very good
20:47.08brlcadmight have to update it to libwdb though
20:47.28IriX64do what you want to it
20:47.53IriX64remember if its not taking up disk space it's broken
20:49.22IriX64permission to do a /ver on some of the channel members (I'm testing a little bit)
20:50.33louipcneat
20:50.45MinuteElectronIriX64: You can do it on me.
20:50.47louipcwhat kind of screw does it do?
20:50.54IriX64thankyou
20:51.01louipcI was actually thinking of doing something like that eventually hah
20:51.07IriX64louipc i'm not sure ive never used it
20:51.59IriX64MinuteElectron i386? time to trade it in :)
20:52.33MinuteElectronit is?
20:52.37IriX640.8.11 is relased i'm running it here
20:52.52IriX64and freebsd eh?
20:53.04MinuteElectronIt is brlcad's server.
20:53.17IriX64is it really?
20:53.21MinuteElectronI m using it for IRC so that people can contact me about problems with the website.
20:53.33IriX64ahh I understand
20:53.53MinuteElectronWell, not just IRC>
20:54.00IriX64of course
20:54.03MinuteElectronI use it to edit the website and the website is hosted on it to.
20:54.15louipcI think debian only goes to i386 too
20:54.37*** join/#brlcad JRogers (n=unkown@207.164.187.115)
20:54.58IriX64err :P
20:55.05MinuteElectronWhat is the one after i386?
20:55.19IriX64z80 ;)
20:55.21MinuteElectronhmm
20:56.20louipci586 i686
20:56.57louipcpentium III is i686
20:57.14louipcwhish is pretty old
20:57.21MinuteElectronhmm
20:59.14MinuteElectronI have the urge to find out about my computer.
21:00.53louipcthe best way is to build it yourself :D
21:01.14louipcthen you get all the manuals for your motherboard etc
21:01.16MinuteElectronI bought the motherboard second hand.
21:01.22MinuteElectronIt is an ePox or somthing
21:01.33MinuteElectronNo manual - just a disk
21:01.49louipcthen install unix or a unix-like OS
21:01.56MinuteElectronI have, on the other hard drive.
21:02.12MinuteElectronBut I can't get it to work with my wireless network.
21:02.12louipcyeah I didn't know anything until I started using linux, but I still know very little
21:02.54louipcyeah wireless is an issue because they only release drivers for windows
21:03.14MinuteElectronubuntu comes with the drivers, the trouble is it won't connect to my wirless network (or anyone elses for that matter).
21:04.39louipcthey try to go about it by emulating windows in a kernel module called 'ndiswrapper' that you can load windows drivers on.
21:04.53MinuteElectronThe druvers work.
21:05.05MinuteElectronAnd I can't be pissed.
21:05.48MinuteElectronI like Unix-like OSs.
21:05.58louipc:D
21:06.03MinuteElectronAnd I want to use them.
21:06.07MinuteElectronBut Windows Just Works (tm).
21:06.12louipchow do you know if the driver works when you can't connect?
21:06.26MinuteElectronBecause it detects the networks.
21:07.22louipcyeah unix-like OSs are a pain in the ass to configure etc... but they don't crash and freeze as much :D
21:07.27MinuteElectronThe only thing I hate about Ubuntu: it loaded GRUB onto my computer and now I have to select windows every time I boot up.
21:07.54louipcyou can change the grub settings to boot into windows automatically
21:08.00MinuteElectronI can?
21:08.00louipcyep
21:08.25louipcand if you want to boot into something else you just hold shift or something to get to the menu
21:09.35louipcI hardly ever reboot so I haven't really looked into how to do it heh
21:10.08MinuteElectronhehe, I wish I was in that sort of position.
21:10.08louipcbut at least you can have windows selected as default. That's easy and straightforward
21:11.06louipcdo you have a /boot/grub/menu.lst in your ubuntu install?
21:11.57MinuteElectron*shrug* I never boot into it and I can't tell from inside windows since it is in a Linux file system.
21:12.44louipcMinuteElectron: install Archlinux in it instead then
21:12.56MinuteElectronok
21:13.59MinuteElectronheh
21:14.54MinuteElectronlouipc: What Desktop environment does it come with by default?
21:15.00louipcit'll increase your nerd factor by 3x
21:15.05*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177878962.dsl.bell.ca)
21:15.09louipcMinuteElectron: none, you choose
21:15.27louipcyet it's pretty easy to use
21:15.53louipcso you can use gnome, or kde, or whatever you want really after doing the basic installation
21:16.11louipcbut... about the wireless I'm not sure
21:16.35MinuteElectronwireless is pretty much essential.
21:16.53MinuteElectronwithout it I have no internet as I am not allowed to trail cabling all around the house
21:18.24louipcyep well you could set it up via cable then if it works
21:18.34louipcdo you know what drivers you need?
21:19.03MinuteElectronzd1211
21:19.11MinuteElectronI don't have a long enough cable.
21:19.41MinuteElectronWow, fate. I clicked Random page on the wiki and http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Networkmanager came up.
21:20.10louipcheheh
21:20.10louipcnice
21:23.00brlcadlouipc: it looks like it makes standard hex and allen bolts, nuts, and washers using descriptors like M10x50, M8, etc as well as generaized number of faces, height/width
21:23.37IriX64I know nothing about it other than he assures me it works
21:23.45louipcyeah I noticed the washers
21:24.48brlcadpretty useful actually
21:24.53louipcah ok I see
21:25.22brlcadvery similar to the existing mk_bolt tool
21:25.27louipccould do with button head cap screws (bhcs), flat head and all those other types
21:25.33brlcadhave to compare how they both do what they do
21:25.39brlcadyeah
21:26.05IriX64says he'll modify it
21:27.00brlcadIriX64: src/mk/mk_bolt.c is the existing bolt generator, if he matches those other features it provides, it could probably just replace it outright with a better version
21:27.12IriX64just a sec
21:27.28brlcadmight show him how to go about using libwdb too :)
21:27.42IriX64he didn't look at mk_bolt, but he'll look and do what he can
21:28.13brlcadhis tools already "better" in a couple ways, so it would be nice to see it improved
21:28.16IriX64I invited him to join but he's shy
21:28.43brlcadaww, he should
21:28.58IriX64heh i don't pressure children
21:29.51IriX64hangs out in #linux on efnet
21:31.02brlcadthen he already knows the ropes ;)
21:31.07IriX64and chains :)
21:31.33JRogersbrlcad: Is this Sean?
21:31.33brlcadhe's clearly capable coder to get as far as he's got, he could work on brl-cad more :)
21:31.40brlcadJRogers: howdy, and yes
21:32.18brlcadah, docbook, hoey! :)
21:32.23JRogersbrlcad: I just got your email in response to the Doc Writer. Im interested in taking it on
21:32.30JRogersyes
21:32.41brlcadexcellent
21:32.41IriX64brlcad: very capable but what he works on is up to him :)
21:32.51brlcadIriX64: that's always the case in open source
21:33.15brlcadyou can ask, you can beg, you can bribe, but you can't make anyone do anything ;)
21:33.27IriX64:)
21:33.33louipcor volunteering :P
21:34.15brlcadJRogers: so what do you need from me to get started?
21:34.17IriX64but if you want something done the absolute fastest least effort way give it to a (competent) lazy slob to do ;)
21:35.05JRogersI have been looking at some of the docs that i could find. Is there somewhere that holds the whole collection?
21:35.24brlcadnot really, which is part of the problem
21:35.30brlcadthey are in different places in different formats
21:35.38brlcadand depending on the format usually determines where they are at
21:36.05brlcadthe manpages are spread throughout the sources, usually provided alongside the tool's code (and there are about 300 manual pages)
21:36.57brlcadthe html pages are in the doc/html directory and includes a mix of tutorial, overview, release notes, and more
21:37.28brlcadthere are text docs in the top-level (which will probably remain text), but also in the doc/ dir which could be docbookified or not
21:38.00JRogersok... Are you going to want to have the docs integrated right into the source tree and set to compile with the main progs?
21:38.05brlcadthere are troff docs in the doc/ dir too, a long guide to mged, and a few other tools
21:39.16brlcadthere is a massive tutorial series that is natively in ms word format, which is what you find pdf's of on the website for numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4
21:39.28brlcadJRogers: yeah, that will be ideally what we end up with
21:39.40brlcadso they can be version controlled, updated as needed with the sources, etc
21:40.07brlcadprobably add a configure option to enable/disable their generation since they'll depend on external tools (unless you have another idea for managing that)
21:40.14JRogersok.. Let me start by getting a copy of the source tree and take a look from there.
21:40.48brlcadif you want a document to "start with", that'd probably be the html doc link #1 on the website, it's a fairly brief overview with a handful of images
21:41.10brlcadI have that in english and italian, and maybe a copy in spanish somewhere
21:41.54JRogersLatest Docbook standard (v5 i believe)
21:42.40brlcadit's still candidate release, but good enough :)
21:43.55brlcadthere's something to be said for considering docbook lite, have you used it?
21:44.05JRogersok... Let me start taking a look around and see what im up against. Any idea's on what options re formats your going to want. I would guess HTML, PDF.
21:44.31JRogersNot really used it much but i am willing to use whatever you want
21:44.34brlcadyeah, html, pdf, and plain txt for starters
21:44.59brlcadi'm not stuck on lite, i've just seen it in use more and more
21:45.43brlcadprobably makes it simpler for document writers, but then of course constrains how it can be used
21:46.33JRogersWhich ever way you want to go... To me its just all a subset of xml anyways and the only difference to me is what tags are available
21:48.47JRogersok.. just took a quick look at the light standard and its fine by me.. Why don't we start with that and see if it will cover our needs
21:49.09brlcade.g. http://www.producingoss.com/ was written using lite
21:49.51brlcadthough they didn't use any images/diagrams
21:53.44JRogersok... that should be enough to get me started. Are the msword docs (that the 4 pdfs where made from) on sourceforge?
21:55.05brlcadthey're not really available anywhere as i've not wanted those to "get out" cept to folks working on the project (on tasks like this)
21:55.48JRogersok. eventually i will need a copy of those.
21:58.21JRogersif possible though can you email me the first one
22:00.14louipcyar I converted one to html
22:00.21louipcno images though :(
22:02.05JRogersthat will do. i might be able to pull the images off the pdf
22:03.13louipchttp://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGEDs.html
22:04.35brlcadlouipc: cool, did I know that?
22:05.35louipcI just did it right now :D
22:06.17brlcadnice, that's a decent start towards docbook format
22:06.40brlcadjust needs to be broken out into all the separate sections, reference images, tables, etc
22:07.05JRogershe makes it sound so easy... lol
22:07.16louipcthere's pdftohtml in a package called poppler
22:07.43brlcadno image extraction though, eh?
22:08.44JRogersok.. i gotta take off but i will get started on looking through some of this stuff tonight.
22:09.06louipcit does have image extraction but that one I did is kind of odd just a sec
22:10.11brlcadJRogers: cool, and thanks for jumping in
22:10.29JRogersno worries.. i was bored and needed a new project to work on.
22:10.36brlcad:)
22:10.53JRogerslouipc: if you get one with images can you just replace the other one
22:11.04brlcadwe're hurting for bodies, with a line of wants and demands at the door :)
22:11.24JRogersonce i get started im going to need devel access to the source tree for ver control
22:11.26louipchttp://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/
22:11.47brlcadJRogers: yep, understood, just let me know when and send me your sf id
22:11.57louipcI can play around with it
22:12.01louipcJRogers: sure
22:12.36JRogerscool. l8t all
22:13.41IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2
22:13.48IriX64some pictures
22:16.37MinuteElectronbrlcad: What is the current backup procedure for your server?
22:20.03brlcadthe server performs (or at least attempt to perform) a level zero every week, as well as local daily backups of most of the databases
22:20.39MinuteElectronhmm, so the website is safe if the server crashes?
22:20.45brlcadlouipc: interesting, though it looks like that pdf was created with background images underlayed
22:20.47MinuteElectrons/crashes/dies
22:20.58brlcadso you can't directly extract the images without the original
22:21.14brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, it should be
22:21.18MinuteElectronok,
22:21.21MinuteElectronthat is good
22:21.28louipc:D
22:22.02brlcadthe server it backs up to also has it's own backup processes that go on, full off-site backups usually once a year and local backups every few months
22:22.09IriX64louipc: have you thought of bringing the images up and screen capturing them to a file?
22:22.20louipcIriX64: what do you mean?
22:22.32brlcadlouipc: you want to try off of the original .doc?
22:22.46brlcadsee if you can make a different pdf that will capture the images better on conversion?
22:22.49louipcI can capture them in pdf2html I can specify a zoom level too,
22:22.54IriX64bing the document up on screen and take a screen shot of the area you're interested n
22:23.11louipcpdftohtml I mean
22:23.32IriX64no something to take a shot of a screen area like i did mine
22:23.36brlcadlouipc: I mean the fact that it pulled the whole page here: http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED015.png
22:23.37louipcbrlcad: sure I can try I will have to look up how to do it
22:23.44louipcyeah
22:24.01brlcadwas that an option, or is there really no separate image for that screenshot
22:24.14louipcI can try to get it
22:24.27brlcadit certainly looks modified and not just extracted
22:24.38brlcadbecause the bit depth/quality is wrong
22:24.48louipcyeah it's the zoom
22:24.57louipcI suppose
22:32.09IriX64If you like those pictures, I'll see what I can do about getting this thing working with a handfull of dlls and something like Xming or Xwin32
22:33.16louipcmight just be the rendering library
22:40.36brlcadthe coverity report is interesting
22:40.47brlcadcan't wait for them to get the whole thing indexed properly
22:41.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: Would you mind taking a look at htpd.conf for my.brlcad.org - the .htaccess rewrite rules aren't working.
22:41.14brlcad(it aborted after processing tk)
22:41.31brlcadMinuteElectron: sure
22:41.37MinuteElectronthanks
22:44.02MinuteElectronHOw long does it take to delete a single shortcut...
22:44.11MinuteElectronWindows is weird.
22:44.20louipchahh
22:44.45MinuteElectron1 minute and counting.
22:46.56MinuteElectronAnd now windows has hung. OMG
22:47.11MinuteElectronFixed.
22:51.34brlcadMinuteElectron: I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be working
22:51.37brlcaddid you turn the engine on?
22:51.57MinuteElectronOh, no.
22:52.14brlcad<IfModule mod_rewrite.c>
22:52.15brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:52.20MinuteElectronOk.
22:52.23brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:52.25brlcadetc
22:52.28MinuteElectronWait, I did.
22:53.26brlcadlet me enable it for all
22:53.30brlcadsee if it helps
22:55.10IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/photonmappedhavoc.png   and I'm sorry I interrupted your conversation, sometimes I get too excited for my own good
22:56.09IriX64roses need watering :)
22:56.13brlcadMinuteElectron: try now
22:56.45MinuteElectronok
22:56.56MinuteElectronno luck
22:59.57brlcadhm, are you sure the problem isn't your rewrite rule?
23:00.31brlcadi know mediawiki, for example, hijacks the rewrite (if you try to do what their docs say, it often won't work as-is)
23:01.35MinuteElectronone sec
23:03.26brlcadi've got mediawiki set up elsewhere on that server with good settings, so there's something to compare against
23:07.39MinuteElectronI have configured MediaWiki - still no luck.
23:14.48louipchmm yeah I can't seem to get it to convert nicely it's a big buggy
23:14.55louipc*bit
23:25.11MinuteElectronWork on the site in the morning. Goodnight.
23:27.17louipcgoodnight
23:36.06IriX64heh it works with xming :)
23:53.30brlcadthanks MinuteElectron, I'll take a look and see if I can get it to go
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070715

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070715

01:55.25louipcbrlcad: ok I found out how to extract images only http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/
01:56.21louipcbut I might have to put the two together manually... or somehow write a program to
01:59.28brlcador parse what I just sent you differently ;)
02:00.00brlcadmight be easier to do doc->ms_html then strip the ms namespace crap out
02:02.14louipcyeah probably
02:02.33louipcI don't have any MS stuff though :O
02:03.15louipcwell those docs need a good combing over anyways right?
02:03.50brlcada real good one, yeah
02:04.01brlcadneed to be broken up into different organization too
02:04.15brlcadOO will do just as fine with MS stuff :)
02:04.19louipcah quite a job
02:04.29louipcooh right
02:04.32brlcador Neo too
02:04.40louipcoh never heard of neo
02:05.20brlcadah, just an OO fork
02:06.32louipcah for mac
02:07.47brlcadoh yeah
02:35.07*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:50.36*** join/#brlcad emtpyc (n=Matthew_@c-69-139-106-103.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
02:51.10emtpychello all
03:06.38*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
03:45.08louipchey openoffice can save in docbook
03:47.02emtpyci understand that the openoffice output for docbook is really buggy
03:49.35louipcbetter than nothing I guess. They're thinking of using docbook to write documentation in but want to extract stuff from the old docs
03:50.49emtpycyeah, i exchanged emails with sean about possibly trying to take on said project.
03:51.17louipcI'm trying to figure out how to get the images nicely and in the right places
03:51.37emtpycin .docbook?
03:52.09louipcin whatever, as long as I don't have to manually put in each image hah
03:53.00louipcand as long as it's not doc or pdf :D
03:53.30emtpycis there an online repository for all of the images that are used in the documentation?
03:54.13louipcI can extract the images, and the text but not the two together properly hah
03:54.36louipchere I extracted some http://louipc.no-ip.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED/
03:56.54emtpycare all the source files in pdf?
03:57.54*** join/#brlcad alejandro (n=alejandr@190.48.131.165)
03:58.35louipcbrlcad has some doc files you can has for
03:58.39Ale_1001hello!
03:58.46louipcthey're not distributed though
04:01.15brlcadhowdy emtpyc
04:01.42emtpychello
04:02.33brlcadand howdy to you too, Ale_1001
04:03.23Ale_1001hello brlcad
04:03.34Ale_1001can you help me?
04:03.43Ale_1001i am trying to compile brlcad
04:03.46brlcadthat's hard to say without knowing the problem ;)
04:04.00brlcadwhich version?
04:04.05brlcadwhich operating system?
04:04.19Ale_1001http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20060202.html.gz
04:04.26Ale_1001look at the end
04:04.33Ale_1001i have the same problem
04:04.49Ale_1001../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
04:06.07Ale_1001when compiling /usr/src/bwish
04:06.22Ale_1001/usr/brlcad/src/bwish
04:07.09brlcadokay, that sounded like an X11 library missing from the link line
04:08.48Ale_1001[root@localhost .libs]# strings libdm.so |grep XFreeDeviceList
04:08.48Ale_1001XFreeDeviceList
04:08.58brlcadrun this:  find /usr/X11R6/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList
04:09.20brlcadmight just be missing libXi
04:11.32Ale_1001[root@localhost .libs]# find /usr/X11R6/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList
04:11.33Ale_1001[root@localhost .libs]#
04:11.36Ale_1001nop
04:11.53brlcadah, interesting, that's likely why
04:11.57brlcadno X11 input library
04:12.17brlcadwhich operating system is this?
04:12.26Ale_1001its fedora 7
04:16.37brlcadhrm, that should be in the xorg-x11-libs rpm
04:19.01brlcadAle_1001: do you have a libXi somewhere?
04:19.37Ale_1001[root@localhost bwish]# locate libXi
04:19.38Ale_1001/usr/lib/libXi.so
04:19.38Ale_1001/usr/lib/libXi.so.6
04:19.38Ale_1001/usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0
04:20.52brlcadahh, there it is
04:21.13brlcadso then this should find it?  find /usr/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList
04:22.06brlcadthat's rather bizarre/unconventional (and probably wrong) to have X11 libraries in /usr/lib
04:23.14Ale_1001[root@localhost bwish]# find /usr/lib -name lib\*.a -exec nm -o {} 2>&1 \; | grep XFreeDeviceList
04:23.14Ale_1001[root@localhost bwish]#
04:23.30Ale_1001its not there
04:23.35brlcadah, no static lib
04:23.41brlcadthat find was only looking in .a files
04:24.27brlcadso the fix should be something as simple as: cd src/bwish && make LIBS=-lXi
04:25.43Ale_1001right!!!
04:25.50Ale_1001it work!!!
04:25.55Ale_1001you are a master!!
04:26.03Ale_1001i will continue compiling...
04:26.14brlcadyou'll probably need to do it again in src/mged
04:26.52Ale_1001okis
05:11.09Ale_1001it works!!
05:11.27Ale_1001thanks brlcad!!
05:12.52brlcadno problemo
05:13.08brlcadque te va bien
05:14.24Ale_1001gracias!
05:38.18brlcadde nada
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06:06.31Ale_1001good by!
06:06.41Ale_1001i'll back
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11:47.18thing0hey all
11:47.54louipcgood morning
11:48.32thing0how u doing louipc
11:48.39louipcor whatever it is where you are hahh
11:49.16louipcI'm ok. I'm trying to figure out how to convert pdf to html nicely
11:49.19louipcwith images and all
11:49.37thing0hmm
11:49.42louipchow about yourself?
11:49.47thing0use adobe acrobat
11:49.53thing0export out
11:51.03louipcis that the full version or just the viewer?
11:52.59thing0full version
11:54.57louipcthat'd make things a lot easier...
12:08.06thing0;)
12:52.28thing0cya people
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16:32.55MinuteElectronbrlcad: Did you ever work out the problem with the rewrite rules?
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17:33.58louipcbrlcad: I got better results now
17:34.01louipchttp://louipc.no-ip.org/poppler/Volume-with-patch/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.html
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20:21.04brlcadlouipc: that is better, particularly for the text, though the image extraction is still a little funky
20:21.16brlcaddid you get the word docs I'd sent?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070716

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070716

00:00.43*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
00:00.43*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
00:06.14pooliobrlcad: greetings :)
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03:14.38louipcbrlcad: yep I got one word doc
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08:05.31*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
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09:20.40klhello
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11:52.20CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: undef small (was char)
11:55.52CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp:
11:55.52CIA-29BRL-CAD: adapt some loop variables to not standard conform compilers
11:55.52CIA-29BRL-CAD: removed C99 code
12:06.48CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_curve.cpp:
12:06.48CIA-29BRL-CAD: adapt some loop variables to not standard conform compilers
12:06.48CIA-29BRL-CAD: added missing return statement
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13:25.28pooliomornin'. Today already hurts...desk chair + sunburn = pain.
13:31.18Laniakea``Erik: use cold-pressed virgin olive oil that can reduce sun cancer after exposure
13:32.11``Erikmight be late for me, got burnt on the 6th, and not too badly... mostly peeled away now :)
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13:48.34poolioeek. I got burnt Saturday and a little Sunday. I backpacked into a backcountry campsite on Assateague island. was great fun but my feet our burnt to oblivion as well as a splotch on my back.
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15:48.02MinuteElectronfoooooddd...
15:48.59MinuteElectronLaniakea: sun cancer?
16:05.54pooliobrlcad: I've been fooling around with the organization and it appears that rt_db_put_internal works fine when renaming the directory, you just have to maker sure to do a diradd on the database you're adding the directory to. This way I can only deal with internal objects and don't have to worry about using the external routines. Earlier you said that there would be isues because the directories have offsets? it doesn't appear like this i
16:19.50``Erikhehehe, truncation, cha cha cha
16:20.33``Erik(irc msg's have like a 512 char limit, and are prefixed by something like "PRIVMSG #brlcad :", which chews some of that up... it's in rfc1459)
16:20.35``Erik:)
16:21.13``Erik(holy crap I'm a dork)
16:21.16pooliomy client didn't truncate it, and I don't think the RFC is very well enforced :)
16:21.32poolioyea I remember reading that RFC when working on a C IRC bot way back when
16:21.37CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/population.c: moved back from bu_external to rt_db_internal structs. removed now useless pop_dup_internal.
16:22.34``Erikcame up truncated here, "it doesn't appear like this i\0"
16:22.46``Erikmebbe bx is bitchy :)
16:25.13archivistsome clients split it over a number of messages with a delay to get around flooding limits
16:28.43``Erikspeaking of; I really need to get off my butt and hack bx so there's a delay in the autojoins on connect....
16:28.44``Erik"connect;excess flood;connect;excess flood; connect;excessflood;BANS!"
16:28.44pooliohaha
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17:04.46IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcadinaction.png
17:05.47IriX64now to try my hand at 7.10 :)
17:09.28IriX64brlcad: that's your code in action, be proud :)
18:32.47poolioIriX64: are you modifying anything to make these builds work?
18:33.25IriX64just a little configure.ac work to allow my stuff to be detected
18:34.04IriX64systems not quite *nix layout
18:35.37IriX64strange really, 7.8.4 finds libgl but 7.10 does not, looks like the same check *shrug*
18:41.26IriX64poolio: beauty of that last shot is that's Xming at work.
18:42.22IriX64works with Xwin32 too, but they only give me 30 minutes a crack :)
18:45.07IriX64don't like your tk interface :P
18:49.54IriX64same site /classicmode.png
18:53.55IriX64well, if the output is to be believed it's compiling :)
18:57.55IriX64same site /classicmode2     just so you know it's fully functional
19:48.54pooliois there no suite to check functionality, I thought there was a test suite or something?
19:52.28brlcadmake test
19:54.16pooliobrlcad: did you get my comment about the internal structs working?
19:54.29pooliocould you test it out when you have a chance just to confirm that it works on other setups
19:54.31brlcadyeah, I read
19:54.37brlcadsure
19:58.01IriX64make test doesn't run ;)
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20:38.55CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: add preliminary code to join trims (need to handle the trim wrap around)
20:40.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: match use of changed loop variable in body
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21:40.49pooliobrlcad: did the internal thing work for you?
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22:50.00pooliobrlcad: you hear about the tornado?
22:51.05brlcadnope
22:51.24pooliothere was one around aberdeen supposedly
22:51.28poolioi'm off to dinner, commits later
22:51.34brlcadand haven't gotten to specifically testing your code yet either, still working on release testing
22:51.37brlcadcool
22:51.50brlcadnot too surprised, it's storming pretty hard right now
22:51.55brlcadlost power for a couple seconds
22:51.59pooliobrlcad: Yeah very low priority, it works and there's no reason it shouldn't work, I was just worried that I was missing something with the offsets you were talking about
22:52.05pooliogot your UPS back up in use?
22:52.08brlcadbut then most of my place is on UPS
22:52.33brlcadif you took care of the offsets, then they should work
23:22.11``Erikhad a good bit of wind shifting directino up here and it went from south to north
23:22.20``Erikhad a brownout, too :/
23:22.23``ErikI need a ups
23:23.14IriX64heh uups=universal uninterruptable power supply :)
23:23.46``Erikbrlcad: they're looking at running more 220 to the cardboard box, I asked 'em to cc you to see if you're interested in figuring all that out, but if you're too swamped, I'll do what I can to fix things up right
23:26.41``Erik<-- is the official stuckee, but wouldn't mind a second rational mind in the mix
23:28.13``Erikpoolio, mind if I ask where-abouts you hail from, what your background is, etc? :) I know you're working some deep stuff and brlcad seems to think highly of you, and that you live in md... that's about it...
23:30.09``Erik(also; travolta as a chick == skeery, but I bet christopher walken saves that new hairspray flick O.o)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070717

00:58.05*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177593811.dsl.bell.ca)
01:01.26poolio``Erik: This response is quite late, but you can ask away and I shall respond if I'm still here when you ask
01:03.39IriX64maybe I'll play ``Erik and ask ;)
01:06.50poolioYou can if I want, I'm just a bad coder that got lucky ;)
01:07.01IriX64:)
01:07.48poolioIriX64: Where are you from?
01:08.03IriX64Canada Ontario
01:09.22poolioAh cool. And what do you do for a living?
01:09.37IriX64I don't live I exist :)
01:10.01IriX64disability pension at the moment (sigh)
01:10.21poolioSo you work on getting brl-cad working in windows for fun?
01:10.26IriX64yes
01:10.34poolioVery nice of you
01:10.49IriX64heh thanks for the nice project to play with
01:11.14poolioheh, wasn't me. Do you do any CAD work or just enjoy trying to get BRL-CAD working?
01:11.45IriX64no cad work, had a course in Autocad but i sucked at it, love trying to learn brl-cad
01:12.54poolioCool man, best of luck :) Ever try to just run it in a Unix-based environment?
01:13.24IriX64retired my redhat-5.1 ages ago sorry
01:14.31poolioit's all good. Windows has its uses, but I'm a coder and really need my Linux environment. I can't imagine trying to code in a full-fledged IDE after so many years with my trusty vim
01:14.54IriX64I like the best of both worlds
01:14.58pooliohmm, I guess that's unrelated to windows, mainly my perception of it and the fact that I last used VisualC++
01:15.32IriX64i have visual studio and watcom both decent environments
01:19.21poolionever heard of watcom, but i'm thinking of getting a wacom tablet
01:20.00IriX64digitizing versus mouseclicking
01:21.03poolioWell I'm going to college and am getting an ultraportable. I figure that a tablet would be useful for typing up notes and say drafting designs/flow charts
01:21.35IriX64typing on a digitizer , what'd i miss
01:24.23pooliohuh?
01:24.51IriX64how do you type on a digitizing tablet?
01:25.08IriX64ahh i see the ultraportable
01:25.11IriX64:)
01:26.41poolioIt's not like a mousepad-sized digitizer, it's built into the screen
01:27.09IriX64oh ok
02:00.08IriX64have i shown you this ---> http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcadinaction
02:03.22poolio+.png, but yeah you have.
02:03.47poolioAlso, may I suggest creating some sort of thumbnail gallery with your BRL-CAD pics, and writing comments describing what's happening in the pics?
02:04.11poolioYou bombard this channel with updates, maybe it'd be better to start a blog to keep us up to date and that way you can show it to other people as well that are not on IRC
02:05.31IriX64will take it into consideration
02:06.17poolioyou could throw it on blogspot or something and get it hosted for free and with an already made interface. seems pretty handy and that way you can check back on your progress, or see archived/older screen shots
02:07.49IriX64like www.irix64.spaces.live.com/photos ?
02:08.13poolioThat site never works for me, something to do with my iceweasel installation, but maybe
02:08.18IriX64was trying to stay away from sites that not all browsers can access
02:08.46poolioHeh, I cant access that one, but whatever floats your boat
02:09.22IriX64my boat sank :)
02:21.48IriX64http://rafb.net/p/iAb3gc15.html   <---- whats this on 7.10?
02:22.37louipcyeah the msn spaces have xml oddities, microsoft going outside of spec I guess
02:23.00brlcadIriX64: that's the same problems as before, you've got messed up inclusion orders and interfaces enabled that shouldn't be given the compilation settings
02:23.07IriX64heh if i were paranoid, i'd think they did it on purpose :)
02:23.29IriX64so you compile one *or the other?
02:23.54brlcaddepends entirely on the platform and the stuff available
02:24.09brlcadsuffice to say, we've had this same talk and even over that same error
02:24.21IriX64soon as you mention platform I have to retire (sigh)
02:24.25brlcadit's not going to get fixed anytime soon until you're willing to look into it more methodically
02:24.49IriX64lets go, you drive
02:25.14IriX64ill checkout a whole new tree, just a sec
02:25.19brlcaddo you have a clean checkout of cvs head?
02:25.31brlcadyeah, that's needed .. and it MUST remain unmodified
02:25.46IriX64got it give me 20 minutes
02:26.27louipcI keep one directory for clean checkout/update and one for building/modifications
02:26.41IriX64ill adopt that
02:26.44louipcjust copy over
02:27.00IriX64just rename the bloody directory :)
02:27.09IriX64with mc its easy
02:27.12louipcyep
02:27.40IriX64roses need watering, ill be back in a bit
02:36.15IriX64checked out how do you want to proceed?
02:36.36brlcaddefault configure, post the config.log somewhere
02:36.41IriX64ok
02:40.31IriX64heh if you laugh at my triplets i'll never speak to you again ;)
02:42.48brlcadis that a promise or a threat?
02:43.09IriX64a poor attempt at humour :)
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02:55.46IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/config.log
02:57.32IriX64ill leave that tree strictly alone
04:41.34pooliognite
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11:33.14``Erik<PROTECTED>
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14:01.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: cast to quell warning
14:02.25pooliomornin, see ``Erik's already up
14:04.11``Erikwell, I kinda have to get into the office at 8:30 most days...
14:04.42pooliohehe. :)
14:04.55poolioI slept in today but that means I have to work late :\
14:05.08Laniakea``Erik: do you have an idea how to fix this? clock@kestrel:~$ mged
14:05.08LaniakeaInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Done
14:05.08Laniakeaversion conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
14:05.08LaniakeaMGED Aborted.
14:08.14``Erikum, I'd imagine itcl builds its version depending on what the os expects libraries to be named and then tests version in the scripts without paying attention to that...
14:08.28``Erikobsd doesn't do dotted .so names, does it?
14:09.04``ErikI know in the configure script, I shoved in a bunch of tests for tcl and tk that go like '8.5 85' in the search
14:09.24``Erikunfortunately, I don't have an obsd box anymore :(
14:10.03``Erik(short answer; itcl is broken in your install)
14:14.12Laniakeawhat's dotted .so names?
14:14.22LaniakeaI guess every library name contains at least one dot
14:14.59Laniakeaaha the problem is that 33 is actually 3.3 with the dot removed?
14:15.48LaniakeaI have libtcl84.so.1.0 in /usr/local/lib
14:16.24Laniakeathen also /usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl3.3.so.0.0
14:16.38``Erikyeah
14:16.46``Erikitcl didn't build it, it'd seem
14:16.51``Erikbuild right, rather
14:16.56Laniakeacan I safely remove /usr/brlcad and run make install again?
14:17.04``Erikit should probably be libitcl33.so.0.0
14:17.13``ErikI don't know if that would fix it...
14:17.19louipcyeah I thought bsd removes the dot
14:17.21``Erikyou might try just moving the offending .so files
14:17.42Laniakeabut I don't have a system wide itcl lib
14:17.53``Erikfbsd can keep the dots in the name
14:18.21pooliojust softlink the 3.3 to 33?
14:18.46``Eriksure
14:19.09``Erikum, and the symlinks, too... libitcl33.so libitcl33.so.0 libitcl33.so.0.0
14:19.11``Erikand see if that works
14:19.40``Erikand the itk's, if they're also messed up
14:20.06poolioit's a bad hack, the problem should be fixed :)
14:20.21``Erikno shit? but this will tell us if it's really the problem
14:20.39Laniakeanow I did rm -rf /usr/brlcad and doing make install
14:20.48Laniakeabecause there was some old stuff from 7.8.4 and this is 7.10.0
14:21.12``Erikok, see if mged works, if not, try the symlink hack and see if that fixes it...
14:21.18LaniakeaThe README says how to install but doesn't say how to reinstall a new version, which people also do often.
14:21.58``Erikin theory, it should just overwrite leftovers
14:22.30``Erikaround here, they like to --prefix=/usr/brlcad/7.10.0 and ln -s /usr/brlcad/7.10.0/* /usr/brlcad/
14:44.09Laniakea``Erik: after deleting the brlcad directory in the system and rerunning make install the error message has changed.
14:45.16Laniakea``Erik: http://pastebin.ca/623338
14:46.56``Erikdo you have /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl3.3 or /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33 ?
14:46.58pooliofind / -name itcl.tcl ?
14:47.13``Erikeck, on root? why no /usr/brlcad?
14:47.29LaniakeaI don't have /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl3.3 and I have /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33.
14:48.03``Erikhow interesting
14:48.11Laniakeanow running find / -name itcl.tcl
14:48.17``Eriksetenv ITCL_LIBRARY /usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33
14:48.23``Eriksetenv ITK_LIBRARY /usr/brlcad/lib/itk33
14:48.26``Erikthen try mged again?
14:49.27Laniakeasetenv: command not found
14:49.43``Erikoh, um
14:49.47``Erikare you using bash?
14:49.56``Erikor one of the bsh family? (ksh, zsh, etc)
14:50.07Laniakeayes I am using bash
14:50.17``Erikexport ITCL_LIBRARY=/usr/brlcad/libitcl33
14:50.19Laniakeaif I replace setenv a b with export a=b then mged says good old
14:50.20``Erikand the same for itk
14:50.26Laniakeaversion conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
14:50.32LaniakeaI did both exports.
14:52.59Laniakea<PROTECTED>
14:53.04Laniakea/usr/brlcad/lib/itcl33/itcl.tcl
14:57.26LaniakeaI don't understand what I should try with the symlinks
14:57.40Laniakeahow did you mean with the symlinks?
14:59.44``Eriklhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/44680
14:59.47``Erikhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/44680
15:07.30Laniakeait prints
15:07.33Laniakealn: /usr/brlcad/lib/libitcl33.so.0.0: File exists
15:07.33Laniakealn: /usr/brlcad/lib/libitk33.so.0.0: File exists
15:08.12pooliothat's fine
15:08.14Laniakeaand running mged (without the exports) does again the long error message
15:08.25Laniakeashould I try with the export?
15:08.31poolioyes
15:10.43LaniakeaSo now it prints again clock@kestrel:~$ version conflict for package "Itcl": have 3.3, need 33
15:11.17Laniakeaand MGED Aborted
15:12.37poolioI could keep guessing but you're better off waiting for someone who knows what they're doing
15:16.24poolioCould it have something to do with package checks on startup? something to do with the way the tcl/tk packages are registered on the system?
15:18.27``Erikno
15:19.15``Erikclock: can you do "make -V ITCL_VERSION" in the source directory and tell me what it says?
15:20.42LaniakeaIt says "gmake: invalid option -- V"
15:21.10``Erikusing bsd make...? :)
15:21.20``Erikor grep it out of Makefile
15:21.37``ErikI suspect it says "3.3" instead of "33"
15:25.34Laniakeawhen I do unalias gmake then make -V ITCL_VERSION says 33
15:25.50Laniakea(on a separate single line, without any quotes)
15:27.17``Erikhuh, odd
15:29.11``Erikok, if you go into src/other/incrTcl and do /usr/bin/make -V lib_LTLIBRARIES
15:29.16``Erikwhat's that say?
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15:42.49pooliobrlcad: I'm still partially confused about the offset thing. It works fine, I didn't manually modify offsets, the internal object remains unchanged, however the directory pointer has changed, I recreate it using diradd on the new database
15:50.59Laniakealibitcl.la  libitcl33.la  libitk.la  libitk33.la
15:58.06``Erikwwweeeiiirrrdddd
15:58.29``ErikI don't understand why it's installing as libitcl3.3.so O.o libtool muffed up mebbe? *shrug*
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16:01.25Laniakeaso what should I do?
16:01.34Laniakeagive some more diagnostic information?
16:02.12*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
16:08.25pooliobrlcad or maybe ``Erik can answer this, in db_tree.c, db_count_tree_nodes(), shouldn't the logic be that the CSG operators: union, intersect, etc... add one to the node count? Aren't they considered nodes after all?
16:13.42iraytraceThe word "node" is probably a misnomer in this context
16:13.58iraytraceIt's counting primitives and regions really
16:14.28Laniakea``Erik: brlcad 7.8.4 compiled and installed fine for me
16:14.52Laniakeabut it produced faulty output from rtedge.
16:15.00iraytraceI wonder if the code, the comment or both are incorrect.  I'd have to see what uses it.
16:15.03Laniakeabecause of race condition between two threads
16:19.24poolioiraytrace: I ask because I need the functionality of counting all nodes, including non-leaf nodes and am debating whether to modify that and rewrite a new one that just adds one for the other OPs
16:20.06iraytraceHave to check the code that calls this already and make sure it won't break before making the change.
16:20.20poolioI can do that
16:20.31iraytraceGoferit
16:23.11poolioiraytrace: I think there's an error, or some sort of weird overlap, db_count_tree_nodes and db_tree_nleaves seem to be the same thing, however nleaves does not count OP_NOPs, and db_count_tree_nodes counts OP_XOR as a unary op, isn't it supposed to be binary?
16:23.52iraytraceSound like it to mee.
16:24.30poolioActually, db_count_tree_nodes seems to be no longer in use
16:24.45poolioI think I should modify it to do what it says it should, and I'll change XOR to binary
16:24.54iraytracesounds like a plan.
16:25.04iraytraceThanks
16:30.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: db_count_tree_nodes() now counts nodes and leaves
16:31.16pooliohmm, that commit message is not right, but oh well
16:32.00LaniakeaWho understands this itcl stuff the most?
16:32.56poolioprobably brlcad, but he's a busy man
16:34.14LaniakeaThere must've been some change around the itcl when it worked in brlcad-7.8.4 and doesn't work in 7.10.0, is it right?
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18:50.01poolioah crap, I somehow broke my source directory :\, have to recheckout cvs now
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19:28.57IriX64poolio, you really can't access my irix32 or irix64 sites?
19:29.27*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
19:31.18poolioYes, there's some issue with XML, I can paste the error for you if you'd like
19:31.26poolioI think it only is happening with people using iceweasel
19:32.15IriX64how do i complain to microsoft errr do I dare complain, at the moment those are free sites :)
19:32.35poolioI have no clue, sorry
19:32.49IriX64heh for you i'll use sympatico
19:33.20IriX64should make a page
19:36.43IriX64should re-install opera and see if there's an issue, no issue with windows firefox
19:45.19poolioMinuteElectron: shouldn't be too bad, binary-based distro.
19:46.05MinuteElectronHmm, I had to download the alternate installer. The standard Live CD installer wouldn't even boot on HELIUM (my other system which is only 400MHz).
19:48.30pooliowoah
19:48.40poolioNo wonder, why do you still have a 400mhz ;)
19:49.02MinuteElectronBecause I haven't the money to maintain two good computers.
19:49.39MinuteElectronpoolio: Even the machine I am using ATM is only 2.2GHz.
19:49.50poolioI'm only on a 1.83
19:50.07poolioPurchasing a 1.5 Thinkpad X41 tablet in the near future
19:50.21MinuteElectronpoolio: Hopefully I will be able to get an 31337 machine for christmas (I need a new motherboard so I can use a PCI graphics card).
19:51.06poolioYeah, with the work I'm doing this summer I'm able to buy a new computer, but I'm saving most of it and going cheap.
19:51.16MinuteElectronI enjoy retro technology because I don't have to worry about scrambling a 10 year old PC when I muck about with the innards.
19:51.41dtidrow10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7600  @ 2.33GHz @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 2823MB/3288MB Free] 10disk[Total : 20.32GB/126.97GB Free] 10video[Quadro FX 2500M] 10sound[]
19:51.45MinuteElectronWith my 4 year old PC that is a completely different matter.
19:51.56MinuteElectrondtidrow: What program did you use to generate that?
19:52.16dtidrowit's a plugin for xchat
19:52.25MinuteElectron:( - xchat is unfree.
19:52.32dtidrow???
19:52.35MinuteElectronat least the win32 official version is.
19:52.40dtidrowah, win32
19:52.55dtidrow10os[dtidrow@localhost.localdomain, Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686]
19:53.06dtidrow:-)
19:53.22MinuteElectronirssi is cool.
19:53.28IriX64err pseudo windows
19:54.03dtidrowrunning windows inside a VM?
19:54.17IriX64cygwin on windows xppro
19:54.34dtidrowah
19:54.44IriX64works im happy
19:54.53dtidrowcygwin makes windows 'tolerable'  ;-)
19:55.07IriX64loadavg in other sessions is always 0 though :)
19:55.19IriX64yes it does
19:55.40pooliohowdy yukonbob
19:55.53yukonboba liveCD of *BSD or Linux would make a Windows box even more tolerable...
19:56.03IriX64heh
19:56.10MinuteElectronos[Microsuck Window XP Professional Service pack 2] cpu[AMD Athlon XP 3200+ @ 2.2GHz] mem[Physical: 1024MB] disk[77.3GB + 8GB] video[NVidia GeForce FX5200] sound[]
19:56.19MinuteElectronhey yukonbob
19:56.23MinuteElectronnice to meet you
19:56.28yukonboblikewise
19:56.59dtidrowNVidia GeForce FX5200 - that's like bottom of the barrel  :-\
19:57.12IriX64Minute electron, you've been robbed, my copy of that chip clocks at 2.4g
19:57.33dtidrowIriX64: overclocked?
19:57.40IriX64no regular
19:57.51dtidrowinteresting
19:58.02IriX64motherboard difference you think?
19:58.10dtidrowMinuteElectron: did you perhaps underclock it for some reason?
19:59.05IriX64ive got a gig of ddr too but only 250g dive :)
19:59.49dtidrowheh - drives are dirt-cheap these days
19:59.58IriX64specially ide
20:00.21pooliospeaking of which, any suggestions for a external hd that doesnt require it's own power source? (usb-powered)
20:00.23dtidrowsaw an external drive for $125 at buy.com - $100 after rebate
20:00.45dtidrow500GB external, that is
20:00.50poolionice
20:00.53dtidrowindeed
20:00.56IriX64poolio staples has several varieties of external usb drives
20:01.09poolioDo people approve of me buying this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130134532113
20:01.12poolioyour e-pinions matter ;)
20:01.15louipcpoolio: I get an xml error with firefox
20:01.36pooliolouipc: yeah, iceweasel is just what they call the newer version of firefox
20:01.46poolioi forget the whole firefox nomenclature
20:02.49IriX64looks purty
20:03.29yukonbobpoolio: if you get the serial#, you can confirm the warranty w/ IBM
20:03.54IriX64thinkpad, does it really help you think :)
20:04.21louipcI thought that iceweasel is a fork of firefox
20:04.24MinuteElectrondtidrow: Did I underclock what?
20:04.49MinuteElectrondtidrow: All my friends take the piss out of my FX5200.
20:04.58louipcbecause they won't allow you to do a custom build and still call it firefox
20:05.03MinuteElectrondtidrow: I am saving up to get a PCI system at Christmas.
20:05.04louipcdumb mozilla license
20:05.34dtidrowMinuteElectron: heh
20:05.55louipcI have the same card as you hah
20:06.02dtidrow$100 would get you a 7600
20:06.05louipcI think it's broken
20:06.12louipcI got mine ages ago though
20:06.27poolioyukonbob: I just sent the question to the seller, good point
20:06.54MinuteElectrondtidrow: That would be a waste since all AGP cards will be out of date in about 5 months and I want to future-proof myself. THis system I am using now has lasted 4 years.
20:07.19louipcwhat's the next interface then?
20:07.31dtidrowPCIe
20:07.33poolioPCI-e
20:07.55louipccool
20:15.43MinuteElectronbrlcad: I am going away on holiday for one week on Friday so will be unable to finish the theme for the website until after I come back.
20:16.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: If I set up LDAP I will be able to set the site to use the defaults themes and you will be able to add content to the wiki and drupal while I am away.
20:17.17MinuteElectronbrlcad: If you want to, that is.
20:21.52dtidrow10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10distro[Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7600  @ 2.33GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 2.33GHz] 10mem[Physical : 3.2GB, 84.6% free] 10disk[Total : 126.97GB, 16.00% Free] 10video[nVidia Corporation G71 [Quadro FX 2500M]] 10sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel]
20:22.16dtidrowheh - found a new version that detects the h/w & s/w better
20:22.23MinuteElectronhehe
20:41.36IriX64poolio: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Current.png
20:43.02IriX64man, it's a cygwin build, would it be cricket to add that somewhere?
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20:54.49IriX64say, brlcad would it help to have my 7.8.4 config.log to compare against, if it will ill put it up there.
20:59.31MinuteElectronIriX64: cricket?
21:03.25IriX64would it be allright :)
21:03.59MinuteElectronI think so.
21:04.10IriX64ty
21:04.16MinuteElectronA old version of windows exists.
21:04.37MinuteElectronBut don't trust me, I am simpyl the website developer.
21:04.43MinuteElectronI could be all wrong.
21:04.43IriX64i Know, 7.8.0
21:05.11MinuteElectronA newer version would be good (I could try it out). :P
21:05.42IriX64maybe ill send you a cygwin build when im done :)
21:06.15IriX64*Ill provide the required dll's
21:07.53IriX64and xserver
21:08.17MinuteElectroncool
21:09.42louipchow's the website?
21:10.33louipcif you ever need a hand I can do some of that :D
21:11.37MinuteElectroncool
21:12.18MinuteElectronI am still working on the theme, but so it is active while I am gone I am going to set up LDAP by friday and that way people can add content while I am on holiday.
21:14.30louipchmm I've never used that before
21:15.08MinuteElectronme neither - but I will get it to work. I promise.
21:15.15louipc:D
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21:31.20poolioebay scammming bullshit bastards grargh http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=130134532113
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21:32.46MinuteElectronpoolio: How do you know it is a scam?
21:33.48dtidrow_work$3,275.00 for a 1.5GHz Stinkpad?
21:34.02MinuteElectronoh lol
21:35.14dtidrow10os[Linux 2.6.20-1.2948.fc6 i686] 10distro[Fedora Core release 6 (Zod)] 10cpu[2 x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU         T7600  @ 2.33GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1000MHz] 10mem[Physical : 3.2GB, 85.1% free] 10disk[Total : 241.38GB, 25.70% Free] 10video[nVidia Corporation G71 [Quadro FX 2500M]] 10sound[HDA-Intel - HDA Intel]
21:35.36pooliooh well, so it goes.
21:35.47dtidrowthis sucker goes for about $4500 on Dell's website, and it's current h/w
21:36.56dtidrowI need to see if I can get the display resolution to show up as well - this one has a 1920x1200 flatpanel on it
21:44.06dtidrowbtw, that $4500 apparently includes an external monitor that I think is also 1920x1200
21:45.06MinuteElectronGoodnight.
21:45.24dtidrow'nite
21:58.20pooliobrlcad: if I have the choice between writing code that works fine but is very specific and writing code that can be more modularized and allow different implementations, should I choose the latter?
21:59.04brlcaddepends how much architecting is required to modularize it, and what sort of "different implementations", but in general sure
21:59.07poolioLike for the genetic operations I currently am writing different routines for the different operations, but I could do it by having a generalized routine and then a function pointer to a routine that will do the more specific processing
21:59.19brlcadwow, busy day
22:00.00poolioWell like, i'm implementing crossover and mutation, should I set it up so if people want to implement other operations that I do not, it will be easier for that to occur? I guess the main question is, is anyone else going to be heavily modifying this code?
22:00.09pooliobrlcad: yeah, where have you been all day :)
22:05.26brlcadMinuteElectron: that sounds like a great plan
22:08.21brlcadIriX64: sure, post both for comparison
22:08.32IriX64all right
22:13.18IriX64config.log-7.8.4 same site as config.log
22:14.08brlcadpoolio: meetings, discussions, fires, the usual
22:15.16brlcadpoolio: I don't think it's heavily likely that someone else is going to be _heavily_ modifying anytime real soon, it's more a tool that will work or not work outright
22:15.48brlcadit would be nice to be able to extract out the genetic algorithm into a generic library, but then that is probably too much overhead work to complete this summer
22:15.54poolioalright, so the effort put into making an easier interface isn't necessarily worth the time
22:16.01poolioyeah, it is :)
22:16.23brlcadyeah, configurable would be good, but doesn't need to be necessarily "easier" code-wise
22:16.51poolioYes, I'm definitely going to separate any sort of "Genetic algorithm variables"
22:17.05brlcadlike being able to specify the size of the population, mutation rates, max tree depths, types of allowed operators/primitives, etc
22:17.53poolioYeah definitely
22:18.34brlcadMinuteElectron: curious comment about ldap -- you're not talking about using ldap for the content are you?
22:18.51poolioI didn't think it would take as long as it's taking, my coding is just going at a slothlike pace for some reason. Every day I make atleast one lage stupid mistake. I was hoping to have it done by now and be working on say having a genetic algorithm or neural net work on finding the best variables for the lower level genetic algorithm
22:18.53brlcadI can easily see it for the user directory, content is a little more tricky
22:19.55brlcadpoolio: you're actually father than I "expected" but spot on where I hoped ;)
22:20.30poolioI think what I messed up was I dove into the code a bit too soon, didn't quite spend enough time planning.
22:20.51poolioI lacked the foresight to see a lot of the problems that have come up. But then again hindsight is 20/20...
22:21.27brlcadyep
22:21.43brlcadyou've made consistent progress
22:21.53brlcadand no glaring/blatent problems to say the least
22:22.12brlcadjust needs more code, more chugging along
22:23.17poolioi mean the first main issue was the tree represenation pain in the butt, and now the organization of my code is needing a change to work better with the genetic operations
22:23.46poolioI'm a couple hundred lines away from a working crossover and framework for mutation, than I'll have to code in the specific cases for mutation, and then I can test, hopefully
22:24.14poolioah hooray, kind of,
22:24.15poolioeBay Listing 130134532113 Cancelled - Results Null and Void
22:24.35dtidrowwhich means?
22:25.36poolioseller should repost it, and I'll have a chance to re-bid.
22:26.50pooliobrlcad: alright I'm off for the night, but tomorrow I will have workign crossover dammit.
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23:55.47brlcadpoolio: hehe, good luck!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070718

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070718

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06:12.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: No, not LDAP for the content. LDAP so that we only use one usertable in the database. Is that correct?
06:20.21MinuteElectronbrlcad: Have you an LDAP server set up yet? Or must I setup once?
06:20.25MinuteElectron*one
06:27.35MinuteElectronbrlcad: Having a look at the BSD repo there appears to be compiled versions of OpenLDAP, the PHP5 extensions and the apache module. If you are able to or want to install them, but I can eqaully as easily compile it myself.
06:31.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: And apparently MySQL comes with BDB support (removed in 5.1 but you have 4.1.22) so I can either use that or it is porbably better to set up BDB datbase so when you upgrade MySQL LDAP still works.
06:33.44MinuteElectronbrlcad: We are in luck, the FreeBSD port search says they have Berkeley DB. Although I can also compile it if you want.
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06:36.25MinuteElectronbbl
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10:27.02CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/brlcad_brep.cpp: handle trim loop wrapping, i.e. need to close the loop
10:27.28Laniakeaanyone has an idea how to continue on diagnosing the itcl problem on my openbsd?
10:29.16CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03jlowenz * 10brlcad/src/other/openNURBS/opennurbs_bezier.cpp: make a note about the broken bezier clipping algorithm
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11:55.16brlcadMinuteElectron: yes, that's correct .. just checking since something you said made me wonder if you meant for content too -- ldap is either already installed or I can install it if it's not pretty quickly
11:55.26thing0hey brlcad
11:55.35brlcadI thought I already installed BDB for some other reason, but I'll check that too
11:55.37brlcadhowdy thing0
11:55.47thing0I am back in Perth
11:55.49thing0for a week
11:55.54thing0gonna party it up
11:55.57thing0just not tonight
11:55.57brlcadsounds like fun :)
11:56.03thing0had to use broadband
11:56.09thing0been hanging out for it for SO long
11:56.11thing0;)
11:58.36brlcadyeah, I get net withdraws
11:58.53brlcadthough I gotta say that I just love having a mildly useful net connection with me all the time now
11:58.54thing0getting wireless broadband before I go down
11:59.04thing0hehe
11:59.54brlcadit should be even better when they upgrade to 3G too, though I'm not holding my breath as to when
12:00.29thing0it is 3G
12:00.36thing0telstra has it now
12:00.40thing0180k a second
12:00.45thing0I was dumb founded
12:01.31thing0but yeah
12:01.34thing0bad plans
12:01.42thing020hrs with unlimited downloads
12:01.48thing0or 1gb with unlimited time
12:01.53thing0$50 AUD per month
12:27.01pooliomornin'
12:27.13thing0morning poolio
12:28.43brlcad3G is not really prevalent in the US yet
12:28.52brlcadnext year it should be
12:29.15brlcadeither way, the plan i'm on now is pretty good .. unlimited net for just about 20usd
12:30.06thing0WOW
12:30.09thing0that is good
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15:49.13poolioerrr?
15:49.50``Eriklooking for the on switch
15:50.15``Erik<-- has all the class and social grace of a... uhh... n/m
15:52.02poolioheh
15:52.09poolio``Erik: where you live in MD?
15:53.31``Eriknorth, near apg/belair
15:56.18pooliomakes sense
16:08.56MinuteElectronbrlcad: Have you been able to check if BDB and OpenLDAP are installed?
16:13.14MinuteElectron07:56:09 < thing0> been hanging out for it for SO long
16:13.19MinuteElectronsorry
16:13.21MinuteElectronmy bad
16:13.45thing0I am on 10G for 50AUD
16:13.45thing0hehe
16:13.50thing0yeah....
16:13.55poolioI'm on my neighbor's
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16:50.46IriX64poolio: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/current710.png
16:51.22pooliocool
16:51.48IriX64seg faults on attaching to X on startup though had to attach to null for that
16:53.17IriX64back to examing stack dump sigh status access violation, where's that coming from
17:14.51CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c population.h): working crossover and reproduction. implementation works, but is going to need a lot of tweaking.
17:37.44pooliobrlcad: ^^ :)
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18:36.50brlcadpoolio: awesome!
18:36.53brlcad~poolio++
18:50.20pooliobrlcad: I've been working for over an hour trying to figure out if it works though
18:50.23poolioI can't really tell
18:50.28poolioIt has some odd behavior...hard to analyze
18:50.51poolioThe fitness function isn't making enough difference
18:50.56poolioI need to give the more fit ones a bonus or something
18:52.01poolioIt has this tendency to converge onto a sphere
18:52.13pooliowhen the optimal solution is two spheres not touching
18:53.06poolioIn other words, it seems like the fitness doesn't increase at all as time goes on
18:58.45poolioHopefully mutation will be a saving grace
18:59.28poolioseems I've exceeded my line limit ;)
19:23.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: LDAP?
19:56.49brlcadMinuteElectron: it's installing now
19:57.22MinuteElectroncool
19:57.22brlcadhad to recompile a few overlays
19:57.22MinuteElectronbrlcad: BDB was already there?
19:57.29brlcadpart of the compile/install
19:57.49MinuteElectronkl
19:57.51MinuteElectronthanks
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19:58.59MinuteElectronbrlcad: Depending on how long it takes I will see if I cansort LDAP out tonightor tomorrow - but I leave Friday morning.
20:00.03brlcadno problem
20:00.43brlcadwe're also moving all of our existing network services for bzflag over to ldap, so I needed to install/update it anyways
20:01.28brlcadit'll be a learning experience, I'm not adept in the details of openldap myself
20:01.32MinuteElectronbrlcad: The two LDAP databases for bzflag and brlcad will be sepearate right?
20:01.38brlcadyeah, of course
20:01.45pooliobrlcad: I think I'm off for a little while, I'm not too sure whether GAs are going to work here, I hope it's just a bug / lack of tweaking on my end :P
20:01.47MinuteElectronok, :)
20:02.09brlcadjust saying i needed to install it for two major projects, thanks for pressing me to finally do it :)
20:02.23MinuteElectron:D
20:02.24brlcadpoolio: how so?
20:02.43MinuteElectronIf we didn't fix it up by tomorrow it would be another week before you could work on the wiki.
20:03.20MinuteElectronbrlcad: BTW I am going to set the themes to default on Drupal and MediaWiki so you can edit them while I am away (since the brlcad theme isn't finished yet).
20:03.32pooliobrlcad: I've been messing with it all afternoon, tweaking variables, fitness calculations, etc... and it never seems to converge on a solution
20:03.39poolioit keeps converging on a sphere
20:03.45brlcadMinuteElectron: erhm, why would I edit the default theme? :)
20:03.47pooliowhen a single sphere is not optimal
20:04.09brlcadpoolio: sounds like a bug :)
20:04.09MinuteElectronbrlcad: I don't mean edit the default theme. I mean edit using the default theme, it is in a much better state at the moment.
20:04.11poolioI might write some perl scripts and other tools to visualize the results better
20:04.18pooliobrlcad: yeah..
20:04.23MinuteElectronbrlcad: lol, my bad
20:04.28MinuteElectronbrlcad: typo kind-of
20:04.33brlcadMinuteElectron: ah, you mean as to editing the "site itself" as in the content
20:04.43MinuteElectronyeah, sorry about that
20:04.48brlcadnp, yeah sure
20:05.05pooliobrlcad: I'll work on it a bit later and see if I can find the bug / present some visualizations that explain why/how it's not working :)
20:05.38brlcadpoolio: I'd recommed either tcl/tk scripts (if only as a learning/exposure exercise for you) or a libdm or libfb interface
20:06.05poolioI know jack about tcl/tk, or libdm or libfb, any tips on where to start?
20:06.35poolioI was just going to use rt and pix2png or something like that, and output say a large image with a rt of the most fit individual at each generation
20:06.38brlcaddepends what exactly you want to visualize
20:07.55pooliobrlcad: Well, I also see in the near future a need for plots
20:08.07poolioLike fitness vs. generation graph
20:08.42brlcadyeah, those can all be done with just about any toolkit
20:09.03brlcadit would just be nice that with whatever you work with, that it actually becomes something that integrates with your tool
20:09.32brlcaddoesn't have to be one of those three, they're just relatively easy to work with and trivial in terms of integration
20:09.57brlcada perl script would be fine for your testing/development, but less than ideal for deployment and integration
20:10.26poolioyeah, the main reason was trying to debug the current software
20:10.34pooliobut it wouldn't hurt to leanr / create something more useful
20:11.58poolioso any suggestions as to what toolkit to use? I'm trying to raytrace an individual, and probably display a grid of raytraced images, overlaying text would be nice. I'd also like the ability to plot stuff, I was just going to use gnuplot for testing, but do any of the toolkits have that ability built in? Plotting points with lines drawn between them is fine
20:17.46brlcadwhat I'm thinking of is a simple tcl/tk gui front end application that lets you specify the input geometry
20:18.14brlcadthen when you run, it calls beset with the options, and for each iteration, displays one of the results
20:18.27brlcad(using rt and a framebuffer server or using tk and png images directly)
20:21.01pooliooh I see, you mean full-fledged frontend
20:21.18poolioI think for now I'm going to just write my own hackish awful scripts, the key thing currently is getting it working, than I can try to get a nice frontend up
20:21.24pooliothere's no point in a frontend of the backend is not functional
20:22.02poolioUnless of course it's pretty simple to write something like that, I really have no clue, never done Tcl/Tk,
20:25.47yukonbobpoolio: tcl/tk == easy-peasy
20:26.14MinuteElectronbrlcad: Who is the www crontab mailed to?
20:26.16poolioCare to walk me through it / point me somewhere to start?
20:26.30yukonbob^-- that for me?
20:26.44poolio:)
20:27.11yukonbobhttp://wiki.tcl.tk/, and #tcl on freenode...
20:27.19yukonbobI can shoot a basic script to you too... 1 sec.
20:28.09yukonbobalso, excellent book == Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk (Fourth Edition) Brent Welch et al
20:28.29yukonbob(not sure if there's going to be a Fifth Edition around the corner since Tcl/Tk 8.5 is around the corner
20:28.33yukonbob)
20:28.48poolioOr maybe are there any examples in brlcad's source of similar simple tools using tcl/tk
20:29.15poolioYeah, I don't really have the time to completely learn it :) Got some more important stuff on the burner
20:29.48yukonbobpoolio: of course... you don't need to become a wizard, but you can cherry-pick what you need from above resources ;)
20:30.04poolioalright, thanks
20:31.31yukonbobpoolio: http://wiki.tcl.tk/488
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20:32.28yukonbobhttp://wiki.tcl.tk/298
20:32.48pooliothanks
20:33.29MinuteElectronbrlcad: Also rewrite rules still don't work.
20:37.04poolioyukonbob: It doesn't look too hard, but I kind of don't feel like being bogged down by it right now. thanks for the help though
20:37.26yukonbobnp :)
20:37.54brlcadpoolio: it's not that complicated, but certainly a couple weeks work if you don't know tcl/tk probably to get something that looks nice
20:38.21yukonbobhowdy brlcad :)
20:38.30pooliobrlcad: yeah, I don't think I have that time :)
20:38.31brlcadMinuteElectron: if it's a user crontab, it's e-mailed to the local mailbox for that user
20:39.26yukonbobpoolio: when you get a few spare cycles and are in the mood, just sit down w/ tcl and play for a bit... I found it _really_ fun to play with, and not difficult to pick up... you can learn it in bits/pieces that way...
20:39.43MinuteElectronbrlcad: Hmm, it would be useful to have the output of the crontasks, since for all I know what could be going on coud have an error.
20:39.54MinuteElectronDon't know if that is possible or not.
20:40.53poolioyukonbob: I'm headed off to school on August 19th :P I only have like 3 weeks left
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20:42.26yukonbobpoolio: what are you studying?
20:42.42poolioyukonbob: electrical and computer engineering
20:43.32poolioI'm not even taking programming first semester, it took me weeks to convince them to let me place out of the C & Unix programming class and it turns out the course that that places me into is completely full and the waitlist is huge.
20:43.45poolioyukonbob: I say ECE, but it's not 100% sure, I don't have to declare my major til the end of the year
20:51.15MinuteElectronbrlcad: So two things: are you able to get the rewrite engine working, and what will be the copyright status of the website?
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21:04.22MinuteElectronbrlcad: Once the LDAP is set up the wiki and Druapl are good for editing.
21:06.59*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:10.24brlcadpoolio: here's a nice simple tcl/tk intro
21:10.26brlcadhttp://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dbutler/tutorials/winter96/tcl/
21:11.17brlcadit's worth more than an hour of your time to go through that just to get some exposure to it
21:12.18brlcadMinuteElectron: the rewrite engine works, I tested it .. just not sure exactly what you're trying in the .htaccess file :)
21:12.33MinuteElectron:'(
21:12.35brlcadcould be that it's conflicting with the rewrite rules in the conf file
21:13.03MinuteElectronwhat is the path to the conf file? i use emacs now and don't have asilly problem like I did with vi.
21:15.00pooliobrlcad: alright alright :P
21:16.35brlcadnot saying you have to use it for what you're doing
21:16.42brlcadjust that you should go through the tutorial
21:18.28brlcadMinuteElectron: the wiki comes up, what sort of rewrite rule are you looking to add?
21:18.41brlcadw/ to w/index?
21:19.11MinuteElectronbrlcad: w/index.php?title= to wiki/
21:19.13MinuteElectronand
21:19.24MinuteElectrond/?q= to site/
21:19.55MinuteElectronThe same rewrite rules work on a different MediaWiki site I maintain.
21:21.59brlcadah, interesting reversal
21:22.44MinuteElectronhmm?
21:22.48brlcadnvm
21:23.03MinuteElectronok...
21:23.11brlcadjust almost the exact opposite that we set up on another site
21:23.24MinuteElectronoh, ok
21:23.32MinuteElectronthis way IMO is cleaner.
21:23.43MinuteElectronit also reduces conflicts in directory names
21:23.45MinuteElectronand file names
21:23.52brlcadthe difference is ending up with wiki/page or w/page
21:23.58MinuteElectronAhh,
21:23.59brlcadw/page was chosen for brevity :)
21:24.59MinuteElectronwiki/ is the official one- but either will do.
21:26.20brlcadwiki/ is fine, though I'd edited LocalSettings for w/ if you hadn't noticed
21:26.42brlcadalso moved the db settings out of the web root if you noticed
21:26.46MinuteElectronYeah, I saw.
21:26.50brlcadyou can put anything sensitive like that in that dir
21:26.56brlcads/can/should/ :)
21:27.07MinuteElectronOh, when you moved the db settings the wiki died.
21:27.10brlcadso like if php wasn't working, files get exposed, etc
21:27.25MinuteElectronWhere were the settings moved to?
21:27.51MinuteElectronI restored the settings, I was kind-of confsued and thought I might have accidentally hit the wrong keys lol.
21:29.07brlcadprobably just a php security setting that needed to be enabled, or something similar
21:29.46MinuteElectronyeah
21:30.03brlcadso needed to be after
21:30.29brlcadwoot, slapd finished
21:31.02``ErikO.o
21:31.40MinuteElectroncool
21:32.49pooliocya ``Erik
21:34.59MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are changes to httpd.conf instant?
21:36.38MinuteElectronbrlcad: Also, is mod_alias enabled?
21:37.54brlcadno, apache has to be reset (sudo apachectl graceful)
21:38.12MinuteElectronok
21:38.13brlcadand yes, mod_alias is enabled
21:38.17MinuteElectroncool
21:39.57pooliobrlcad: Is there something already established to take shots from the x y and z axis? I'm just trying to save a good represntation of the model that I can look at outside brl-cad
21:41.06brlcadmm, I thought about writing such a tool several times, quite a trivial script
21:41.10brlcadbut alas, no
21:41.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can I reset Apache? Also can you check my modifications to httpd.conf - I don't want to accidentally take out the server.
21:41.23brlcadMinuteElectron: yes, you can as www
21:42.15brlcaddo an "apachectl -t" to check the syntax
21:42.19MinuteElectronok
21:42.20MinuteElectronthanks
21:42.47brlcadif the syntax is good, at worst you'll probably take down brlcad.org only
21:43.03brlcadif it's bad, then .. it's bad :)
21:54.18MinuteElectronI have to go to sleep now - last day fo school until the summer tomorrow. Hope you are able to fix the httpd.conf problems ;) - will sort out LDAP tomorrow.
21:54.27MinuteElectronGoodnight al.
21:55.30MinuteElectronAlso i must moved the drupal database settings to a seperate file.
22:05.46brlcadMinuteElectron: ldap is installed and running now
22:05.49brlcadthough there is no config file
22:12.08pooliobrlcad: I keep getting "pix-png: Short read" what's up with that?
22:39.56``Erikyour pix isn't as big as expected
22:40.09``Erikdefault expect 512x512*3 bytes
22:40.40``Erikso if the file isn't 786432 (or more), you get that error
22:41.01``Eriktry the -a flag if it's square, or the, uhhh, -w and some other flag if its' not
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070719

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070719

00:24.50brlcadyeah, need to specify the -w WIDTH -n HEIGTH of the input, and use redirectors < > for input/output
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02:56.11IriX64poolio: archer.png (proving once and for all windows is fun:))
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03:51.20pooliobrlcad: a bit late, but I was wondering if you had any suggestions on the series of ae's to take the raytraces at?
04:09.30brlcadpoolio, sure .. front, left, top and 3525
04:09.44pooliok, thanks
04:10.00brlcadi.e. 0 0  90 0  270 90  and 35 25
04:10.38poolioYeah I got that, just fixing up the perl script :)
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04:54.55pooliobrlcad: if you have a minute and some bandwidth here's a 1.2M image, showing the most fit individual from each generation
04:55.05pooliohttp://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon.jpg
04:56.27poolioJust uses crossover and reproduction, 50% chance of either, crossover is done by selecting a random node on each of the two parent trees and swapping the sub trees at those nodes.
04:56.38poolioreproduction is just duplicating the individual into the newer populaiton
04:57.54poolioTesting whether the GA is working is becoming painfully slow :\
05:06.17brlcadMinuteElectron: very curious.. is that svn cron task a safe thing to do?  chances that the svn sources will update to something unstable or is that a stable branch the sources come from?
05:08.43brlcadpoolio: interesting, and progress :)
05:08.57brlcadand a pretty reasonable test case
05:09.00pooliowell, not necessarily progress :\
05:09.10brlcadwell it's actually iterating and doing something
05:09.10poolioLet me try again with the two spheres
05:09.27poolioWell it has been at that stage for teh entire day, I was hoping to have some sort of visible convergence
05:09.46brlcadnote that with the evolutionary criteria you selected.. i really wouldn't expect it to converge for several hundred iterations at least
05:10.45brlcadis the fitness value that your fitness function computes normalized?
05:10.48poolioalright, maybe I'm being too impatient. But the fact that it's jumping around so much for so long...I thought I would be able to see noticeable improvement after a not so significant amount of generations
05:11.23brlcadafter 100 iterations, you should see some difference, but it won't necessarily be visible
05:11.26pooliobrlcad: Normalized from 0 to 1, represents the %different from the source
05:11.26brlcadyou need the value
05:11.36pooliowell the value tends to go down
05:11.41poolioit seems the first generation has the highest fitness
05:11.43brlcadyeah, what's the graph of that mean fitness look like?
05:11.58pooliothat's next on the list :)
05:12.17brlcadi'd also suggest starting with an even simpler test case
05:12.27poolioI did, I just tried out something more advanced
05:12.44poolioI'll go back and test a simpler one now
05:12.45brlcadI presume from what you said earlier that one sphere is pretty much going to match just from how sample candidates are tested
05:12.56brlcadwith thier boxes set to "match"
05:12.59poolioYes, one sphere is trivial in the sense every single individual will be the same
05:13.15brlcadokay, so then next step is two spheres, not overlapping
05:13.33brlcadthen two spheres overlapping
05:13.53brlcadbut only after you find a convergence on the first
05:13.59poolioyeah, I tried two spheres not overlapping, no good results, I'm going to try to run it longer though
05:14.05brlcadyou should definitely be able to get a semi-quick convergence on the first
05:15.07brlcadi mean, that's only a four-value function if you think of one of the spheres as fixed, and still only 8 valued if you don't
05:15.46brlcadit's only when it gets into the hundreds that I'd question it's ability to ever converge
05:16.34brlcadcan you make more than a sphere or is that the only primitive supported?
05:17.01brlcadthat's another hard problem -- with even just one primitive, but N possible creation primitives
05:18.54poolioso far i'm keeping it just a sphere
05:19.02brlcadanother thing I think might actually be messing you up is matching the bounding grid to make it scaling independent -- it takes care of scaling (which is just one parameter of course), but screws with translations and position values (6 parameters) .. such that crossover is effectively randomized between different scalings
05:19.05poolioI can spawn a population with anything
05:19.14brlcadokay, just wondering - that's good
05:19.29poolioIt'd take a few minutes to spawn other things, but the crossover and reproduction are independent of the shape and it's specific properites
05:19.51brlcadnah, don't worry about other shapes, spheres are good
05:20.05poolioyeah crap, translations and positions would throw it all off
05:20.27pooliowell, translations and positions would be covered by orientation
05:20.33pooliowhich is inherently part of the primitive shapes
05:21.24brlcadthe magnitude of their values doesn't mean the same thing after a crossover any more though
05:22.23pooliotrue
05:22.47brlcadwhich just makes it that much harder for the GA (and really hurts crossover)
05:23.37pooliohmm
05:23.42pooliobut I don't think there's really anything I can do about that
05:23.44brlcadone of the crossover criteria is supposed to be taking your top n% of the population only, for example, like only your best 50% with a given fitness get to cross ..
05:23.52pooliowell
05:23.57poolioI have a weighted random selection
05:24.07poolioso the most fit are more likely to be selected, but not guaranteed
05:24.11brlcadbut with normalized scaling, that means the fitness is scale dependent which crossover knows nothing about
05:24.16pooliotournament selection might be what  it's called
05:25.29poolioI don't see any way around the crossover issue though, unless you wanted crossover to modify the shapes themselves to normalize them to the current shapes in the other tree, but I don't think that makes much sense
05:25.29brlcadwith usual fitness values, crossover tends to work well because crossing something with fitness .7 and .8 tend to give something that is .7 or better on average
05:25.42brlcadwith the scaled values, though, you could pretty much get anything though
05:26.50poolioah crap
05:26.56poolioI never thought of that...
05:27.04brlcadwhat you can do is take the bounding box of your input geometry, make that your grid -- and only create geometry within those bounds
05:27.29brlcadso position becomes a parameter, but it makes the fitness work
05:27.29pooliohttp://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres.jpg
05:27.55pooliowait
05:28.12poolioso setting up the raytracing of the indviduals would use the a fixed frustrum?
05:28.16pooliofor every individual
05:28.51brlcadyeah, those results seem fairly random.. cept for the times it gets stuck on a mildly bad answer
05:29.09brlcadyeah, fixed bounds
05:29.13brlcadbased on your input
05:29.23brlcadabsolute world coordinate space
05:29.56brlcadif input model is 100,100:-100,-100 then that is what you shoot in and create sample geometry in
05:30.26brlcadyou'll have to rework a few pieces of your code undoubtedly
05:30.30brlcadbut I think you really will have to
05:30.45brlcadand sorry, I should have thought about that scaling issue earlier better myself :/
05:31.38pooliono man, it's my project and my failure to think of this sooner
05:33.10brlcadyou have a mentor for a reason :)
05:33.23poolioI think having crossover meaningful and working is a lot more important than the scale and global position invariance
05:33.30brlcadeither way, it's still looking good, just the fact that you have crossover working on trees!
05:34.15poolioit was so easy to code, it was such a trivial thing that took so long
05:34.18brlcadand all being done through the librt geometry api, native hooks, calling into the ray tracer, awesomeness
05:34.22pooliocrossover on trees is as easy as swapping pointers
05:34.36pooliowell I'm happy if you're happy :)
05:37.10brlcadi'll of course be happier as it gets better too ;)
05:37.52poolioyeah yeah. next couple of days should be good. now that I can see some progress I'll probably make more
06:11.42MinuteElectronbrlcad: I will adjust the cron thing.
06:12.02brlcadMinuteElectron: it's not a problem per se, just wondering
06:12.46brlcadkinda cool that it'd stay up to date, but if they're like most web apps, they'll eventually break compatibility and require upgrade scripts to run on the db, or other actions to be taken, etc
06:13.17MinuteElectronbrlcad: An upgrade script was already running.
06:14.27MinuteElectronI will remove the cron thing an from time to time update it to the revision currently running on Wikipedia. All of the commits havbe been reviewed by the CTO of Wikimedia\Head developer of MediaWiki before they go onto Wikipedia.,
06:15.36brlcadsure, review is great .. but eventually compatibility is (intentionally) broken so code can advance -- is this a stable branch or head?
06:16.06MinuteElectronhead, what do you mean by compatability?
06:16.49brlcadi mean they add some great new feature X or change how feature Y works, and that might, for example, require a new field be added to the database
06:17.22brlcadmaybe requires whole new tables, or even simply reworks how they behave in a manner that's not the same as it was
06:17.35brlcadthat happens to all code eventually
06:17.35MinuteElectronOk, I will switch to a stable branch, although I have had much experience with MediaWiki - and the upgrade script automatically does all of the SQL updates.
06:18.05brlcadah, so that's what you meant by an upgrade script was already running
06:18.11MinuteElectronyeah
06:18.11brlcadI just noticed the svn update
06:18.29MinuteElectronThat is how they do it on Wikipedia - if they broke things then the entire of Wikipedia would break.
06:18.37MinuteElectronSo svn up, php update.php
06:19.21brlcadwhich might imply that they are either working on a deployment branch, or they treat head like a stable branch
06:19.29brlcadand perform active work on a branch then
06:20.03brlcadif it'll work that's fine, just good to understand what is what :)
06:20.41MinuteElectronAhh, okay. I will update it peridoically to the latest revision live on Wikipedia.
06:23.05MinuteElectronbrlcad: How is LDAP setup going?
06:26.42brlcadit's installed and running, but no config exists for it yet
06:27.10MinuteElectronok, I will have to read up on that this afternoon.
06:27.18MinuteElectronif I am getting the right end of the stick
06:27.29brlcadyeah, i'm trailblazing new territory myself as I've mostly dealt with existing configs
06:28.15brlcadI'll work on it some more tomorrow and see what I can get going
06:28.33brlcadwas there anything you needed for the rewrites or you have that all under control now? :)
06:28.42MinuteElectronIt is still broekn.
06:28.59MinuteElectronI added the aliases to httpd.conf and reset apache.
06:29.04MinuteElectronBut it still doesn't work.
06:30.23MinuteElectronI am very confused.
06:34.48brlcadI can play with it, I remember the internal redirect rules in media causing all sorts of issues
06:35.16MinuteElectronthey are?
06:35.19brlcadtook a while to get it to work with their latest (set up last winter)
06:36.00MinuteElectronI removed the settings from MediaWiki so if the aliases work it MediaWiki will just redirect to /w/index.php/page
06:37.05MinuteElectronHmm, I will work on all this later. School for me now.
06:38.27brlcadyou know, something like the drupal header, but inverted (both vertically and color) would work pretty well for the footer
06:38.41brlcader, I mean the default theme
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10:56.07pooliomornin'
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13:18.56``Erik*stretch* *yawn*
13:22.39LaniakeaCan someone help me with the mged that has the itcl problem?
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13:33.24``Erikthe . issue from yesterday?
13:36.23``ErikI assume you're using 4.1?
13:37.33Laniakea4.09
13:37.34Laniakea4.0
13:37.37Laniakeanot 4.09
13:40.15``Erikhum, tell ya what, once I get this thing slapped together, I'll see if I can reproduce it on 4.1. If I cannot, I'll make a 4.0 image :)
13:40.31``Erikwill take a while, though, building the emulator, then installing into an emulator...
14:25.17*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
14:33.23``Erikneat, bus error on install
14:34.54dtidrowbinary install?
14:36.42Laniakea``Erik: you need to fix your bus
14:36.48``Erikinstall of obsd41 in qemu, to track a bug Laniakea is seeing
14:36.52Laniakeapull out an oscilloscope and measure the eye patterns!
14:37.36pooliobrlcad: should I normalize the shot rays [0,1] now or just leave the depth of the ray as is? I don't have to normalize because they're all going to have the same depth (z of the bounding box is the same for all individuals)
14:38.15Laniakeabrlcad: I am thinking (not very seriously) about making an opening logo animation for Twibright Labs movies
14:38.36Laniakeataking a wave equation solver, put Twibright Labs logo into the wave, run the simulation and then record it backwards.
14:39.01LaniakeaIs it a good idea to use the resulting height map and feed it into brl-cad with some water parameters and sun at the horizon to get a realistic looking raytraced scene?
14:39.11LaniakeaCan you have a real height field in brl-cad?
14:43.03*** join/#brlcad iday (n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz)
14:44.24``Erikum, the 'dsp' primitive might be what you're looking for
14:44.30``Erik(yes, the name is stupid.)
14:48.38*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487645A.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:49.13pooliobrlcad: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres_fixed.jpg -- with fixed bounding box
15:17.09*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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15:23.27*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/brlcad/brlcad || 7.10 is now released! .. e-mail announcements will follow posting of binary distributions
15:26.08brlcadpoolio: you can either normalize the rays or not, shouldn't really matter except that your fitness function will probably want to normalize at least from the perspective of getting the ratio of right/wrong so it can determine the overall fitness value
15:27.36brlcadI actually think that looks a little better, but it either converged on a local minima or there's some other bug at play
15:32.36MinuteElectronbrlcad: Is the LDAP ready for configuration?
15:34.32*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:36.58brlcadMinuteElectron: in what sense? :)
15:37.09MinuteElectronbrlcad: Making it work.
15:37.15brlcadit's installed and ready like I said yesterday .. but has no configuration file :)
15:37.23MinuteElectronbrlcad: Am I able to make one?
15:37.30MinuteElectronOr do you need to?
15:37.30brlcadyou should be able to, yeah
15:37.37MinuteElectroncool
15:42.33brlcadthere's an ldap user just like the www user that you should be able to sudo as
15:43.09MinuteElectronok
15:43.12brlcadconfig would go in /var/db/openldap-data
15:43.13brlcadiirc
15:43.29MinuteElectronok
15:43.57brlcadthe restart script is in /usr/local/etc/rc.d for slapd (which you can run as just sudo without -u ldap)
15:46.28MinuteElectronbrlcad: Would the LDAP server be located at localhost?
15:46.37brlcadyes
15:46.56brlcadand should only be accessible locally, no remote access
15:47.00MinuteElectronbrlcad: Which port?
15:47.30brlcadshould be on the default, 389
15:47.39MinuteElectronok
15:47.48brlcadyep, it is
15:51.12brlcadit really does need a configuration file, though .. default is going to be wrong
15:52.21pooliobrlcad: there's something f-ed with my debian install, I put it under heavy load trying to test out more generations/larger populations and I hard lock :\
15:53.39``Eriknifty
15:59.14brlcadhehe
16:00.58``Eriksure it's not a hw issue?
16:05.00poolionot entirely sure
16:05.05pooliobut if it is I'm going to be very angry
16:08.35poolioalright
16:08.37pooliolets try this again
16:09.33poolioHmm, my lap is burning.
16:10.02MinuteElectronbrlcad: sudo: /usr/local/etc/rc.d: command not found
16:11.06pooliobrlcad: oh d'oh, that's the issue
16:11.13poolioI only have 512 mb of swap and 1gb of ram, and it's all full
16:11.23poolioI'm guessing I should fix my memory leaks
16:11.54``Erikum, shouldn't be a hard lock, linux should start throwing OOM messages and killing processes left and right
16:12.34``Erik(now, it may LOOK like a hard lock as it tries to clean up swap space tables in kernel... but evnetually it should come back)
16:12.37pooliowell, it's not actually a hard lock, it's a: it's so slow I can't move the mouse or type or do anything
16:12.55poolioand I give up trying to attempt to kill it and just power down
16:13.06``Erikheh
16:13.15``ErikX can be a memory pig :)
16:13.33poolioWell, not really, X isn't the issue
16:14.04``Erikyour leaks are, but with your app and X fighting over memory and beating up swap, it bet it got ugly... console would've probably been a lot more responsive :)
16:14.24poolioWell, my X and everything else running is minimal
16:14.35poolioIdling right now I"m using a total of 84M
16:14.55``ErikX tends to be aggressive about image caching
16:15.47``Erikfreshly started, it's tiny, but it grows, and gets thrashy if you get towards oom and it tries to clear out some cache
16:16.03pooliohmm, valgrind is being of no help
16:16.06poolioI might have to use my brain
16:16.28``Erik<-- likes to sit at an X server and do dev work and big runs on other machines
16:16.48``Erikum, boehm?
16:17.20pooliowhat's boehm?
16:17.23``Erikboehm-gc
16:17.47``Erikhans boehm wrote a GC that works with c/c++ programs, it can be used to find dangling allocs and stuff
16:18.15``ErikI d'no if valgrind can do the same thing as well
16:18.46``Erikif neither show it, that means the chain is still live
16:23.55poolio``Erik: It looks like it's a library, not a program
16:24.16``Erikit is
16:24.39``ErikLD_PRELOAD=libgc.so ./myprog
16:24.44``Erikor link against it
16:24.49pooliooh alright
16:24.51``Erikit over-rides the alloc family
16:25.33``ErikI think you have to do something funky to get it to report collects and stuff
16:25.37``Erikbeen a while
16:25.40``Erikand a long time, too
16:33.29poolioyeah I don't get any output
16:35.03``Erikis the app growing at the same rate?
16:37.20pooliohaven't tested yet, I've been doing some other tweaking
16:38.54poolioalright
16:38.59pooliolets see if it works better :)
16:39.40poolio``Erik: Yeah, just as bad
16:39.53poolioAfter ~30 seconds I'm up to 80%
16:40.12poolioand we are full :\
16:44.21*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
16:44.32poolio``Erik: :\
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16:46.49pooliowell, it looks like it wasn't going good anyway
16:48.45pooliobrlcad: same issue: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2spheres_pop500.jpg -- converges on a sphere
16:51.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: I am not going to be able to get LDAP set up by tonight.
16:51.25MinuteElectronbrlcad: There is not enough time.
17:02.46MinuteElectronbrlcad: I have to go, I will be back on Saturday next week. And will finish work on the site over that week (I think). If you want you may edit the wiki and Drupal, since they both function you could put something in the topic saying they are open to editing maybe. If you make an account on either I will check back in ~2 hours and make you an admin on both.
17:05.25brlcad~MinuteElectron++
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17:39.23pooliobrlcad: is there some sort of safe atoi() anywhere in brlcad? reading an unsigned int passed as an argument
17:45.36``Erikatoi() isn't safe?
17:46.08``Eriksrc/librt and src/rt make heavy use of regular old atoi()
17:49.07pooliooh alright :)
17:49.12pooliowell I just have to error check it
18:05.01IriX64there's a young atoi()? o of course ateentoi() ;)
18:05.21poolioyuck yuck
18:05.31IriX64snarkle :)
18:08.11IriX64somebody wanted to know what i was the other day, I responded "cute and adorable" what are you? (snort)
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18:20.35CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: cosmetics, comments, and working options
18:20.53poolioand the memory leak isn't there
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19:48.37pooliowhere's the fookin leak. :\
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21:49.18brlcadpoolio: did you run valgrind?
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21:57.34poolioerrr
21:57.36pooliobrlcad: big problem
21:59.18pooliobrlcad: My mom tripped over my AC adapter and kicked the brick into the wall, and now the charging brick isn't working. I didn't notice at the time and so I drained my battery to nothing, and then it died. It's an Asus so it's not carried in stores but I'm trying to get one ASAP
22:01.07brlcadpoolio: ah, that sucks
22:01.13brlcadthanks mom :)
22:01.42poolio....tell me about t
22:01.44poolio*it
22:02.08brlcadradio shack has the components to make a custom fitted adapter, I've used them for a few laptops
22:02.19brlcadjust in case you're looking
22:07.08poolio"custom fitted" ? a in hacked together? :P
22:07.26brlcadno, they have sort of a universal power adapter kit
22:07.38brlcadyou identify the tip, and the power requirements
22:07.47poolioOh, like the Targus universal adapter thing?
22:07.48brlcadthey have a standard brick for various amperages
22:08.04brlcadkinda, except that they have bigger/smaller bricks
22:08.16brlcadand you usually just buy the tip you need
22:08.17poolioalright, and they have all the tips?
22:08.27pooliothe main issue is it's an Asus and it's not really carried ... anywhere
22:08.31brlcadonly way to know is to take in your adapter to see
22:08.39brlcadusually about 20-40 if they have the tip
22:08.46brlcador maybe remembering low
22:08.52brlcadmaybe 40-80
22:08.58poolioyeah, I live really near one, Ill try to run up and get one tonight, if not I talked with the reseller I bought the laptop from and they can ship it tomorrow and get it to me Monday
22:09.27brlcadwhat's  your brick say for power?
22:09.43pooliooutput is 19v
22:09.50brlcadah yeah, they should have that
22:10.19brlcadmight not even need the universal for that if you get lucky
22:10.29brlcadas they have various sizes prefit
22:10.34pooliowell what i'm concerned about is the tip
22:10.48pooliothe radio shacks here are really small, you sure they carry this stuff?
22:10.49brlcadyeah, just take in the laptop and adapter, test it
22:11.16brlcadi've yet to see one that didn't, but dunno for your area ;)
22:11.47brlcadit's usually in the back with the eletronic components .. where you *used* to be able to find cool stuff like resistors and capacitors :)
22:11.56pooliohehe
22:12.04poolioalright I'm going to head up there now, wish me luck :)
22:12.09brlcadgood luck :)
22:13.12poolioit's covered under warranty but by the time it ships to taiwan and I get it back it'll be way too late
22:13.19poolioalright, off I go
22:14.27*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1128564966.dsl.bell.ca)
22:14.51IriX64http://rafb.net/p/TUuTO168.html   <---- remeber fbserv, this one is bwish.
22:15.38IriX64something weird, stuff is in there 3 times for the link
22:16.08brlcadthere's nothing wrong with listing link items multiple times
22:16.16IriX64ok
22:16.57brlcadthe problem is still the same, there is some X library missing from the link line
22:17.07IriX64this off cvs as of yesterday btw
22:17.12brlcadyou have -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi
22:17.18brlcadthere is another Xsomething missing
22:17.32IriX64well you fixed fbserv please fix this one :)
22:17.48brlcadit's not something to "fix", it's based on configure options
22:17.52brlcadand configure tests
22:18.05IriX64where should i look
22:18.42brlcadit's using a standard set of X11 library tests, we didn't even write them, so probably something is wrong in those tests for cygwin
22:18.49brlcadand the library has to be manually tested
22:19.08IriX64do you know which lib?
22:19.26brlcadsearch the web, sett which library has XParseColor, XVisualIDFromVisual, XClipBox, etc .. all those undefined reference symbols are in some library -- need to find out which one
22:19.46IriX64thanks, ill search
22:19.47brlcads/sett/search for/
22:20.59IriX64i'll use ignore for now, don't reallly need bwish to play around
22:21.59brlcadit would help if you searched/found the issue, otherwise you're just going to bring it up again in a couple days and it will still be unresolved :P
22:22.23IriX64lets hope there are none past that point ;)
22:25.52IriX64why am i building this for an opteron, I had hopes of sharing it :)
22:33.44IriX64http://rafb.net/p/bzott990.html <--- hate to keep bothering you but this one's mged, and i *need mged, guess i really better start searching.
22:37.15IriX64i'll keep it churning but if it's specific to my system, there really no point bothering you with it
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070720

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070720

00:04.26*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016142179.customer.alfanett.no)
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00:35.13pooliobrlcad: UGHHHHHH
01:32.00louipcpoolio: cmon I don't think he's that bad looking
01:33.27pooliolouipc: Oh, I was actually referencing the pic brlcad sent me of you ;)
01:35.31louipcouch
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02:59.26brlcadheh
02:59.33brlcadpoolio: no luck?
03:01.23pooliobrlcad: yes luck, went to 4 stores, dealing with people that were no help and were in fact hurtful
03:01.30poolioat compusa the guy tried to convince me _not_ to buy it
03:01.41pooliobut I bought it and it worked, I plugged it in at the store just to makre sure
03:01.52poolioCost an arm and a leg though, $110 :\
03:02.08poolioNeed my laptop to work though, didn't really have a choice
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03:04.54*** part/#brlcad jaymz (n=jaymz@unaffiliated/jaymz)
03:05.03brlcadthe shack didn't have the plug?
03:05.13brlcador didn't have their usual kit at all?
03:05.52pooliobrlcad: they did, it was more expesnive
03:05.58poolio$80 for initial + tip
03:06.02poolioand they wouldnt let me open the tips
03:06.08poolioso I would have had to buy each tip and check them
03:06.20poolioactually no, for the 90W it was $95 for initial
03:06.33poolioit was more exepsnive than the targus
03:06.40poolioand the shack had the tip thing, but no tips even close to the right size
03:06.43brlcadahhh
03:06.49poolioand the iGo things they had only outputted max like 6 something volts
03:06.58brlcadshame, it was only 60-something iirc when I last got one a couple years ago
03:07.18poolioMy plan is to buy it online for the price of $50, and return this one
03:07.24poolio(buy an actual replacement part)
03:07.31brlcadsounds like a good plan
03:07.32poolioI'm also seeing if I can RMA it but I think I'm out of my warranty
05:18.23pooliosleeeep
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12:05.31IriX64http://rafb.net/p/MxikwS41.html  <---- is this normal behaviour for mged?
12:25.15IriX64hmmm classic mode exhibits the same behaviour
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14:45.54IriX64http://rafb.net/p/tpV5m780.html <---- poolio
14:48.10poolioah oops
14:48.14poolioforgot to cvs up another part
14:48.16poolioone sec
14:48.38IriX64sure
14:48.58IriX64was just wondering how to fix it :)
14:49.03pooliok, give it a minute and then re-cvs
14:49.08IriX64sure
14:49.21Laniakeano erik today?
14:49.38IriX64who do you ask
14:49.54CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h): more cosmetics and options updates
14:50.02IriX64:)
14:51.14poolioIriX64: should be good now. thanks for testing :)
14:51.17Laniakeafitness.c more cosmetics? Sounds like brl-cad for women
14:51.27IriX64welcome, will let you know
14:51.51poolioI spiced up fitness.c
14:52.15poolioLaniakea: He might be taking today off, I'd guess he is as it's already 11 and he's not here
14:52.55Laniakea+/- a lot
14:53.13IriX64i'm gmt-5
14:53.25LaniakeaWho's doing gym in the spare time?
14:53.41IriX64:)
14:53.50Laniakeayou, IriX64 ?
14:54.00IriX64smiled at the thought
14:54.12Laniakeasomeone did indeed - brlcad?
14:56.35IriX64poolio, good good
14:56.41poolioIriX64: cheers.
14:56.51IriX64wine please :)
14:57.31Laniakeawine, women, songs!
14:57.51IriX64minstrel gypsies :)
14:58.37LaniakeaI made a machine for hackers where they can improve their fitness while sitting at a computer without spending a single additional second of time
14:58.42Laniakeahttp://ronja.twibright.com/exciter/
15:11.45IriX64grouses too
15:17.45IriX64wanna hear something hilarious, windows ntvdm prompt is doing a make distclean
15:20.30IriX64soons its done, i'll pastebin the final output
15:23.40IriX64http://rafb.net/p/wrqlAH10.html  <--- i'll play with that some more later right now i've got an install to do
15:36.11IriX64heh to configure brlcad = bash ./configure :)
15:38.02IriX64rotflmao
15:38.38IriX64prompt line was the problem before
15:44.40IriX64http://rafb.net/p/qfCgdS28.html <--- not a bad exercise, but you still need all the support files in the path so why bother, why not just run it in the cygwin environment, or is there a use for gcc that'll run on windows?
16:10.28pooliobrlcad: Is there any way to find out which data structure is taking up the memory?
16:20.47*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593372.dsl.bell.ca)
16:22.53*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (n=erik@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:24.05IriX64_http://rafb.net/p/0vKxju60.html << this things hilarious
16:24.53``Erikum, ok...and?
16:25.10IriX64_im gonna try to build it
16:27.47IriX64_maybe it'll run better on windows if it's built under windows :)
16:34.30poolioI lied, ``Erik is here apparently :P
16:34.44``Erikno I'm not
16:35.24IriX64heh sometimes i'm knot sometimes I yam :)
16:37.52IriX64sigh.... thereis something to be said for pointless fun :)
16:40.49IriX64btw this gcc doesn't require the shell, just a sprinkling of cygwin dll's
16:41.23pooliobrlcad: I've isolated the memory leak. If all I have is rtip = rt_new_rti(db); rt_clean(rtip); the memory shoots up...
16:42.23pooliobrlcad: oh, it looks like I need to close and reopen the database after calling rt_new_rti?
16:44.47IriX64http://rafb.net/p/xrMgoI74.html <--- ill stop pasting these now, (but it's so much fun)
16:47.20IriX64*poof* WininX is born :)
16:48.47poolioHoorah! Fixed due to my stupidity. I copied incorrect code from g_qa and ... needs to be rt_clean_rti() not rt_clean()
16:57.25IriX64make is happy as long as it finds the shell hehehe
17:02.03IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/winix.png
17:03.37poolioWoah! It runs so much faster without memory leaks :)
17:21.33poolio2.7M Image, current status: doesn't look like it's converging but memory leaks are fixed and it runs much faster: [#cslounge]
17:21.36pooliooops
17:21.40pooliohttp://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_2sph_large.jpg
17:21.41pooliothere we go
17:34.21IriX64http://rafb.net/p/FJk0WY28.html << missed this one last time
17:34.32IriX64opennurbs
17:41.14pooliobrlcad: ahhhh! I'm getting 1GB of just database files :\
17:48.18pooliobrlcad: I think I have some success though! :D check it out: http://my.brlcad.org/~poolio/mon_3sph_good.jpg
17:48.31poolioall that changed was some tweaking of the fitness function and damn.... that looks like progress
17:56.35CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h): memory leak finally fixed. updated fitness function, much better results.
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20:23.28IriX64heh i'm checking out brlcad into the windows environment /me is happy :)
20:24.23IriX64anyone want a windows (+ cygwin dll's) cvs proggie?
20:31.46IriX64http://rafb.net/p/BT4WuO47.html  <--- once the associations are made it's all falling into place
20:38.21IriX64http://www.rafb.net/paste/    i'll stop now again :)
20:38.27IriX64whoop
20:39.28IriX64http://rafb.net/p/uK2e8y39.html   forgot to submit it :)
20:40.16poolioi'm out for a bit. ta ta.
20:40.23IriX64cya man
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20:55.22thing0morning yall
21:00.46louipcafternoon
21:02.49thing0just got in from clubbing ;)
21:04.48louipcsweet
21:04.54louipcI might go clubbing tonight
21:06.40louipcLaniakea: nice machine hah. maybe you should make a portable 'thigh-master' version
21:09.07Laniakeawhat's thigh-master?
21:12.10louipchttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thighmaster
21:13.53louipcsweet I found a vid http://youtube.com/watch?v=wkxFWVGqUCg
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22:04.42brlcadpoolio: if you copied incorrect code, then it's not really your stupidity :)
22:04.48brlcadgreat for finding that, btw :)
22:05.27brlcadsounds like the bug, though, is in g_qa .. which should probably be fixed too :)
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23:28.47IriX64http://rafb.net/p/BN9rlo85.html  <--- making progress, look closely at the last two lines.
23:31.15``Erikrm with the -f flag never reports anything.
23:31.35IriX64thought that was force no ?
23:31.41``Erikit is
23:31.53IriX64toasted a whole dos tree :)
23:32.06``Erikdeltree /y C:\  <-- does it, too
23:32.07``Erik:)
23:32.17``Erikor at least, it USED to, I d'no about modern winderz
23:32.23IriX64yeah and easier to implement :)
23:32.49IriX64del has switches i think thesze days
23:33.20IriX64just rebuilt that dos tree with cvs heh
23:33.39IriX64why dual boot, use one on top of another
23:33.45``Erikhum
23:33.59``Erikthe usual argument for using a *nix is improved stability, reliability, performance, etc
23:34.09``Erikwhy would you put that ontop of windows?
23:34.13IriX64wonder how hard it'll be to get kde up
23:34.27``Erika fortress with a balsa foundation? :)
23:34.28*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:34.34``Erikj0, twingy
23:34.39IriX64for sots like me who are to lazy to learn all the moves of *nix
23:35.46``Erikyou seem to be confident in basic command line usage *shrug* plus, kde and gnome pander to the winderz folk for default config, so you'd theoretically feel more or less at home out of the box
23:35.59Twingyhowdy
23:36.51``Erikneat, what ic?
23:36.59Twingy18F67J11
23:37.05``Erikand has jason tricked/coerced you into a micro-t or micro-baja yet?
23:37.10Twingy128kB Flash, 4kB RAM, 2 USARTs
23:37.17Twingyno money
23:37.27``Eriknah, the great big superbehometh of the PIC family?
23:37.28Twingyspending it all on electronics
23:37.37``ErikI've been half eyeing my 16f88's here lately
23:37.49Twingykinda... microchip has a 16-bit line now that has some DSP stuff and has 8 registers instead of just 1
23:37.57Twingyin theory you could put a light weight operating system on it
23:38.10``ErikI've also been thinking about busting out my hammer, box of nails, and buying some wood
23:38.29IriX64http://rafb.net/p/DsgQQB16.html <--- heh the associations held thru a power off/on cycle (hello twingy)
23:38.33TwingyI will probably move onto an ARM7S with math coprocessor though
23:38.34dtidrowis that an adapter from a surface-mount format to a DIP-style one?
23:38.41``Erikum, in practice, primitive operating systems have been put on machines less powerful than the 16f88 in teh past :D (I'm such a computer history dork *sigh*)
23:38.44Twingydtidrow, yes
23:38.55TwingyQFP64 made on my cnc mill
23:39.13dtidrowah - figured it was etched
23:39.15``Erikare you going to solder it to the final pcb, or use a socket?
23:39.16Twingythe stuff I'm doing is interrupt driven, so an OS isn't required
23:39.26Twingyeverything is soldered
23:39.29Twingyno sockets
23:39.30IriX64whoa
23:39.33``Erik(and that's some awesome granularity work at that size)
23:39.35IriX64no os
23:39.42Twingytook about 3.5 hours to make that
23:39.52Twingy~45 minutes to solder...
23:39.54``Erikhand constructed, no trace compiler?
23:40.19TwingyI used eagle with autorouting, made a schematic then converted to a board
23:40.28``Erikah, coo'
23:40.36``Erikis the big flash area ground, or dead?
23:40.41Twingyeven though gcam can conver gerber files to g-code now
23:40.47Twingydead
23:40.54dtidrowsoldering surface-mount stuff is tricky without the right tools
23:41.15TwingyI used solder paste and a $20 griddle from walmart
23:41.24``Erikheh
23:41.31dtidrowcheater  ;-)
23:41.34``Erikhillbilly sme oven? :D
23:41.44Twingyit works.. 400F, paste melts at 380F
23:41.50Twingygot the idea from Nathan
23:41.58``Erikyou could do that in your kitchen oven, too
23:42.08``Erikbake up a batch of surface mounts along with your cookies
23:42.29Twingyprobably don't want to put food on it after it's been baking boards
23:42.42Twingyeven though the solder paste is RoHS I think
23:43.02Twingysoldering QFP64's is a pita with no solder mask
23:43.04IriX64RoHS=?
23:43.35TwingyRestriction of Hazardous Substances
23:43.41Twingyi.e. no lead
23:44.01IriX64thankyou
23:44.27TwingyI've been using clear coat to prevent the copper from oxidation one the board is done
23:44.30``Erikhummmm, that back to the future car, that's at, uh, universal studios out in la? looks awful familiar
23:44.51``Erikif that's the same, they haven't changed the exhibit in over 10 years
23:45.40IriX64Train or car :)
23:45.49Twingycar
23:48.16Twingythe 2 students I'm mentoring have a working autopilot for an emaxx now
23:48.24Twingyrunning off an 18F2420
23:48.53TwingyI have a little report on how I was able to put GPS, Servo PWM, Control, and Comms on a single PIC chip
23:49.13Twingythey are using the base code and filled in the control function to navigate waypoints
23:49.29``Erikalready out?
23:49.34Twingynot yet
23:49.38Twingyfinishing it up
23:49.42``Erik<-- wouldn't mind being on the dist list
23:49.48Twingyit's all interrupt driven
23:49.59Twingypwm is tuned perfectly on an o-scope
23:50.19IriX64if theres no os shouldn't it be event driven :)
23:50.32``Erikerm, interrupts are events, yo
23:50.43IriX64depends who you talk to
23:50.54dtidrowwhere do you think the events come from?  ;-)
23:51.08IriX64:)
23:51.15IriX64you mean interrupts
23:51.35``Erikinterrupts happen, some os's decide to throw an event if it sees one
23:51.48IriX64semantics
23:51.52``Erikif you consider interrupts and events different, that is...
23:52.18IriX64are they reentrant
23:52.39``Erikinterrupts themselves are atomic
23:52.54TwingyPWM and RS-232 is a real-time process and must be serviced by interrupts
23:52.56``Erikwhat happens at high levels, where re-entrant and 'events' live depends on the developer
23:53.22Twingycontrol is something that does not need to be real-time and can occur between interrupts
23:53.49IriX64an event can occur numerous times per second, the interrupt handler must be able to handle this
23:53.53dtidrowtime to head home....
23:53.54Twingyhardware buffered UARTs are very critical in a real-time environment
23:54.10``Erikon the x86, for example, when an unmasked interrupt occurs, the interrupt handler will generally call 'cli', set up the appropriate event propogation, and once that's completed (atomically), call sti to allow the next interrupt
23:54.20``Erikwhich, of course, happens in a scale of microseconds, if not nanoseconds
23:54.37Twingyon the PIC chip an interrupt eats about 6 instructions
23:55.06IriX64bear in mind i only type with two fingers here
23:55.30``Erikvery slowly
23:55.42IriX64heh doubled up did you
23:55.49IriX64;)
23:57.51IriX64have two here need a third
23:58.07``ErikI have two premade sockets, one in my bedroom and one downstairs, so installation should be trivial
23:58.20IriX64true most are anyway
23:59.42IriX64http://rafb.net/p/0yqIws56.html <-- this isn't rocket science but i'm proud anyway :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070721

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070721

00:00.26IriX64do i dare try to make it, make is associated so it should go
00:01.31IriX64rotflmao
00:01.41IriX64its doing it again
00:02.24IriX64gotta go out for a bit later thanks for educating me
00:03.51*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
00:20.37IriX64guy i went to see had the gall to ask me if I was of the true religion, I answered of course, beleiving is the true relgion, catholicism, judaism, etc are merely *ways of beleiving, sheeesh
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00:24.15IriX64scuse me venting on you sigh
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00:31.39IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8vMizB71.html <--- guys this ones yours
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00:53.56IriX64http://rafb.net/p/wW7wwR25.html  <-- okay, this ones not completley proper, because I used the -i(gnore) switch on make to force it to keep going around that error i just pasted a while ago, but ntvdm built it
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02:02.25poolioevenin
02:21.49pooliobrlcad: I had a question about some memory clean up and stuff. I found that the rtips needed to be cleaned with rt_clean_rti(), should I also be clearing the resource pointers? and what about rt_uniresource? should I run rt_clean_resource on those?
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04:28.30brlcadpoolio: yes, the resource structures should always belong to the application and it's the app's job to free them (if you see api that contradicts this, let me know or try fixing it -- there shouldn't be)
04:31.07brlcadrt_clean_resource will do "most" of the job of free'ing data except for one case that I don't believe you're using (but you should be able to ignore that case regardless)
04:31.25brlcadrt_uniresource is special, you don't free it (you didn't allocate it)
04:31.41brlcadyou can clean it, but iirc, it doesn't really matter much
04:32.44pooliobrlcad: but if I have it setup for multiple CPUS, I should make sure to free all the resource pointers?
04:33.33poolioalso: it appears g_qa doesn't clean anything. I'm not quite sure where I got rt_clean() usage from. g_transfer uses rt_clean but proceeds to rt_clean_rti() later
04:34.01brlcadyes
04:34.29brlcadrt_clean just prepares for the next frame and/or render session
04:34.45brlcadg_transfer is a demo application where it shoots rays over and over until it's shut down
04:34.56brlcadso between each session, it needs to clean
04:35.09brlcadbut then on shutdown, it needs to clear out the rti
04:36.52pooliowait, so if I have a rtip that i'm going to re-extrace from a db_i, do I need to run rt_clean_rti or just rt_clean?
04:37.04poolionote, rt_gettree() is going to be recalled
04:38.57brlcadhmm
04:41.01brlcadthat's a good question, I'm not positive without re-reading the guts, but I think you will need to rt_clean_rti() as the directory structure needs to be cleared out (which is in the rti)
04:41.03poolioI can experiment but it's hard to tell
04:41.21poolioalright yeah, because rt_new_rti clones the db_i
04:41.22brlcadrt_clean_rti() runs rt_clean() too fwiw
04:41.28poolioyeah that's correct
06:08.00pooliobrlcad: you around at this hour?
06:08.41pooliozit
06:09.21pooliowow my brain is fried
06:09.36poolioi was trying to type exit in another window, and managed to type ex adn then must have tapped into this and typed zit
06:09.39poolioI guess I'll go to sleep now
06:09.41pooliognite :)
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09:00.13Laniakea``Erik: have you managed to install the openbsd into your emulator?
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10:37.24kenthis is kenwolcott from the mailing list, looking for someone who knows anything about the deal with the website. feel free to ping me or whatever if you have any info
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12:58.20``Erikhrm, what? huh? what website?
13:12.03kenohey there
13:12.23kenI responded to a thing on sourceforge about a webdesigner wanted
13:12.36kenI got this email that said "drop by irc"
13:13.51kenIm just here asking about what's expected, in terms of design/function and all that
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14:44.12``Erikah, brlcad is the guy to talk to, when he wakes up O.o
14:44.43``ErikI presume you've perused what exists at the moment?
14:45.25kenthe b+w site?
14:45.29``Erikand are comfortable with the notion of making a grotesqly conformant page (i.e. renders on just about any browser, with just about any font size, screen size, etc)
14:45.40kenyea, that wont be a problem
14:45.47``Erikhttp://www.brlcad.org/
14:46.29``Erikokie, brlcad is the guy to talk to :) I have to go make a shopping list and head now O.o hasta
14:46.45kenkk
14:47.04kendo svedanya
14:53.44brlcadhowdy ken
14:53.59kenhow are ya?
14:54.18brlcadpretty good, still shaking off some sleep
14:54.35kenthats good to hear
14:55.00kenyou mentioned mediawiki in the email
14:55.06kenI like that idea
14:55.58kenI was wondering about layout/color/etc
14:56.08brlcadyes, I actually mentioned a lot of things, iirc too :)
14:56.35brlcadthere are four primary sections to the site that need to be worked on, with various levels of independence for those sections
14:57.27kenright
14:57.49kenbut its all going to look pretty much the same, right?
14:57.50brlcadas I mentioneed, there's already a guy that's been working on the front portal section of the site, he's unfortunately not here this weekend though he'll be back on Mon
14:58.04brlcadthey can look the same or not
14:58.11brlcadso long as their consistent within their section
14:58.16kenI mean, visually consistant and all? or are they four different sites?
14:58.18kenriht
14:58.25brlcadso there's a lot of flexibility in terms of how each one looks independently
14:59.05brlcadthey're really four different sections to the same site, they all relate to and are connected to BRL-CAD
15:00.02brlcadthough they could be on separate domain names for identity or something, maybe separate virtual names, or even separate domains -- but all interconnected in terms of navigation and data being presented
15:00.54brlcadfor example it would be really useful on the main page to have a summary of the benchmark statistics, a graph of recent results or entry statistics
15:01.32kenright
15:02.03brlcadand selecing that data would then of course take you to the section that talks about what the performance numbers mean, just what is the "BRL-CAD Benchmark", how to add their own results, download a benchmark-only binary kit, etc
15:02.39brlcadthat benchmark performance section could be in the same drupal/mediawiki install or could be entirely custom
15:04.01brlcadi say that mainly because it's going to be pretty tricky to do all of the backend connections, like for that performance section, without a bit of customization (both on the backend and the front end), so I did not want to artificially constrain any of those four sections amongst each other
15:05.16brlcadso if you're interested in working on one of the sections, I can point out some of the stuff that's already being worked and what's not
15:06.34kenwell, most of what Ive done is front-end code, with a bit of (very) light php/perl to make it useful, but if I need new skills, it wouldnt hurt the resume to pick em up
15:08.01brlcadI think the less customization we can get away with the better, because that makes for less of a maintenance burden
15:09.14brlcade.g. I think you could probably do the entire performance database and materials database in just about any CMS with a fair bit of setup, and entirely through the frontend if one wanted
15:10.12kenactually, I'd imagine the materials db wouldnt be too much setup in mediawiki
15:11.03brlcadhmm, that's entirely possible .. hadn't thought that one through so much
15:12.06brlcadthe difficulty I think would be having a consistent set of information for each material as well as having summary information pages
15:12.41kenjust add a few more form fields on the upload page?
15:12.52brlcadlike if you wanted to do a search of all metals that have a density over some specified value
15:13.17brlcador if you wanted a table of all materials that have a brinell hardness < .2
15:13.33kenyea, I was just gonna say, toss in some kinda search deal beyond the very basic find-a-page
15:13.47brlcadjust looking at an "info sheet" of rolled hardened steel #12 and comparing it to some other material side-by-side
15:14.03brlcadand being able to compare the same fields
15:14.20brlcadwithout manually editing both wiki pages, manually categorizing every property, etc
15:15.01kenright, just make the search useful
15:15.25keninstead of lists of links, bring up tables
15:15.58brlcadhow would someone "add a new material" with mediawiki, though?
15:16.02kenthe one problem I can see is that I've been told wikis can be a bit nuts with sql queries
15:16.40brlcadI'm just having trouble seeing how it'd work I suppose, without them copy/pasting another existing material record that already had a given set of fields
15:16.59kenupload file, fill out a few info fields, and somewhere in the back some voodoo happens that pulls out any numeric data thats too banal to make uploaders type in
15:17.14brlcadmind you, I'm not adept in all the intricate details of mediawiki, I mostly know it from the initial setup, and basic editing aspects
15:20.42brlcadthere isn't any file to upload for materials (at least not yet), it's all fundamental material properties for the most part where materials have items like their name, density, brinell hardness, formal name, short name, young's modulus, tensile strength, elongation at break, etc
15:22.48kenyea, as long as it can be read from whatever's uploaded
15:24.32brlcaderm, there isn't a standard file format or anything for this stuff
15:24.50kenyea, I was just looking into that
15:25.08brlcadthat's where I was thinking you'd just have a form or sections of properties that people filled in
15:25.48brlcadsometimes you know just a couple items like the name and a density, sometimes you know everything like the actaul % breakdown of elemental molecules
15:26.28``Erikhttp://www.explosm.net/comics   brutal
15:26.32kenso just autofill the rest with NA or unknown?
15:27.10``Erik(and it seems to me... with the section visibility thingymajigger... if everything was real simple and properly marked, then a couple stylesheets could be chucked out to 'pretty' it up
15:27.12``Erik)
15:27.13brlcadby the way, for that particular task, there is a site that provides some of this information, but the difference here is that this is entirely open and free to all and that the content is specifically related to solid modeling and rendering so we can do things like associate textures and visible properties along with the physical traits
15:28.07``Erikthat'd allow archaic browsers like lynx to still be happy, as the page source is, y'know, content oriented instead of visually oriented
15:28.08``ErikO.o
15:28.41kenyea, thats how the internets been wanting to be lately
15:29.16``Erikand last I heard, there was no canonical list of what properties a material has :/ that has to be decided before any serious 'content aware' search mechanism could really be decided
15:29.24``Erikdoes water have a brinell hardness? O.o
15:29.31brlcadken: yeah, it can be autofilled, but I'm just not seeing what then that means w.r.t. mediawiki data -- as traditionally at least, they're basically tracking the content for a given page that can be freeform
15:29.49brlcadis there a way to force pages to have a particular format in mw?
15:29.59``Erikcss
15:30.08kentake for example the image template
15:30.25``Erikiirc, the default mw look is all in css
15:30.29brlcad``Erik: huh??
15:30.32kenit is
15:30.34kenwell
15:30.34brlcadyou're talking about something different
15:30.40brlcadi'm not talking about the visual layout
15:30.43``Erikoh
15:30.44kenits xhtml + css + jscript
15:30.44``Erikheh
15:30.59brlcadi don't care about that, I mean the format of the data
15:31.05``ErikI don't think so
15:31.08brlcadwhat fields are there and which aren't
15:31.19``Erikother than hacking the php or the local config .inc file
15:32.22``ErikI know with the admin pages, you can tweak what's on the sidebar
15:32.24kenfor uploading an image, the default gives you the option to name it and leave a comment
15:32.37brlcadken: that's what I'm referring to about making it work with mw -- you can do that sort of forced customization in other CMS systems without the customization (drupal, plone, joomla, etc)
15:32.47kenbut theyre stored a single sql db
15:33.10brlcadyeah, this is sort of like how images themselves are managed
15:33.12kenall the junk associated with uploaded media
15:33.21brlcadbut instead of images, it's a set of material properties (as a collection)
15:33.26kenright
15:33.37brlcadhow to *enforce* that set is the trick
15:33.51brlcadas new users aren't going to know anything about which to include or not
15:37.05kenI see what youre saying
15:37.46kenfor some reason, I'm still thinking of materials being uploaded files
15:38.04kenok
15:38.07brlcadyeah, there are no files, the data is really scattered too (hence the strong need for a single database)
15:38.45kenok, so then this beast'll pretty much have to be built from the ground up, right?
15:38.54brlcadmedia might be able to do it, i mean wikipedia sort of does this for corporations, countries, movies, and other items
15:39.15brlcade.g. the right column on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_project is sort of what we're needing
15:39.30brlcadbut actually enforced consistent format that would be used .. hundreds of times
15:40.07brlcadand if we have to add a field two months down the road, do we have to edit several hundred pages, or is it just added in one place as part of the template, etc
15:40.07kenso just pulling data into a table?
15:40.47brlcadpretty much, though there are also relations
15:41.02brlcadand categories (that are not fully known right now, but do exist)
15:41.03kenif its just data-to-table, then you can add a field and let the contributors fill in the blanks where they find them
15:41.37brlcadhmm.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infobox
15:42.07brlcadit's a matter of whether they actually "see" that there are blanks
15:42.20brlcadhow would they know?
15:42.43kendrop a form feild in the blank with a default fill of "unknown"
15:42.53kensomething that looks editable
15:43.00brlcadthat works for new, what about those already existing?
15:43.00kenlike it needs to be filled in
15:43.46brlcadsay you want to add a new field called "Ken's stamp of approval" to a database that already has 500 items, for example
15:44.23brlcadhow would I as a user browsing/editing know that there's now a new field that could be filled in
15:44.58kenright, it would add a value of <input type="text" ...>unknown</input> to all pre existing items
15:45.11brlcadwith the infobox approah, according to what i'm (just now) reading .. you could add the field, but it won't be applied to any existing data
15:45.33brlcad"it would add" .. howso? and what is it?
15:46.55kenwhen you add a new field, it would add a new sql column to the table. the default fill would be the unknown field
15:47.40brlcader, are you talking about custom or through mediawiki or both or neither? :)
15:47.46kencustom
15:47.50brlcadahhh
15:48.00brlcadwell, for custom sure! =)
15:48.07brlcadI thought you were taking mw would do that
15:48.12brlcads/taking/saying/
15:48.13kenprobably
15:48.16kenit might
15:48.43kenbut I was talking about custom
15:48.48brlcadokay
15:49.04kenI'm not entirely sure of EVERYTHING mediawiki capable of out of the box
15:49.16ken*is capable
15:49.53brlcadnor am I frankly, just going by what I already know and what I've been reading about the infoboxes that seem to be the closest to what we'd need
15:49.57kenbut its just some really simple php to do this custom
15:50.42brlcadexcept that I see zero-consistency enforcement with infoboxes, you have to edit all pages if the infobox template changes .. that'd suck :)
15:50.55kenright
15:57.27kenso we're dropping the infobox deal and going with a fresh and new addition to the wiki to handle this, right?
15:57.35kensorry, I thought I sent that already
16:02.58brlcadmaybe you did and I just misunderstood you :)
16:03.33kenno, I made a pot of coffee and came back, it was still sitting here waiting for me to hit enter
16:03.38brlcaddo you still think a wiki would be best, or a cms, or fully custom, or ?
16:04.40kenwell, for community development I like the idea of a wiki as opposed to another cms simply because its so much easier for just anyone to add to or edit or anything like that
16:06.04kenjust about everyone's already familiar with wiki markup (as opposed to most other cmses where to, say, add a link you have to know about the anchor tag - or use markdown, which all of 6 people on earth have experience with)
16:06.23kenand if theyre not, its a lot simpler to learn and faster to use
16:07.50kenfor this part, just tack it on to mw
16:09.33kenwrite the functionality we're looking for, staple it to the wiki as either a plug in or part of the actual base... something like that
16:10.03kenor drupal, or whatever youre going with
16:11.42kenlike I said, I like the idea of a wiki for this part, but then I just kinda walked in today, and I'm not entirely as familiar with the needs of the site overall as anyone who's been working on it (or even just thinking about it) for more than 20 minutes
16:12.24kena wiki also has the benefit of functioning as a wiki
16:18.10brlcadI agree in general on the ease of use, wiki certainly has the power over cms for that, though in this case it's sort of "form-centric" where there's a predefined set of data (that will likely change over time, but is part of the structure regardless)
16:19.18brlcadand don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating one vs the other -- I just like to think things through for how they'd work in practice down the road, maintainability and growth
16:20.36brlcadthe wiki has a big leg up on customizability since, as you note, anyone could amend the template without needing to know html or sql or php, etc .. it's just then consistency of the "database" itself where some materials would be conformant to an old template, some to a newer
16:21.28brlcadthe main portal site is actually going to be a drupal/mediawiki hybrid that work with each other
16:22.00brlcadMinuteElectron already has both set up and working now, ready for data to start being entered to populate that section
16:23.22brlcadthere's another guy looking at the performance database, though from what he'd discussed, I think he's going a custom route (conceptually, it could use the same mediawiki plugin if one was made for the materials)
16:28.52brlcadken: so, I like your idea .. the next question then is how familiar are you with mediawiki plugins :)
16:29.10kenbrb, phone
16:30.48brlcadotherwise, I'd have to imagine that mediawiki already has _something_ that would help for doing this already as I'd think it'd be pretty common to want to have form data in the wiki format
16:35.00keni have this minor crisis to deal with, whens a good time to come band get ahold of ya? this evening/tomorrowish?
16:37.22brlcadi'm on the channel most days every day at some time of the day :)
16:37.31brlcadjust hop on irc and linger a while, you'll usually find me
16:37.36brlcadotherwise the mailing list is fine too
16:38.03brlcadi'm eastern u.s. timezone-wise, if that helps
16:38.26brlcadthough my "offline"/sleep schedule is fairly chaotic
16:46.21kenkk thx, I'll be back tonight
16:52.45*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
16:53.02brlcadlooks like templates actually can work for this
16:53.13brlcadthe only issue then becomes comparisons, searching, and summaries
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17:56.48pooliobrlcad: what's up with my.brlcad.org? I kind of like the new look... :P
17:58.00brlcadheh, that's drupal's default theme
17:59.04poolioI like it :)
17:59.13pooliobrlcad: can I get a vhost on my.brlcad.org and use it?
17:59.29brlcadsure
17:59.56IriX64http://rafb.net/p/fo2gOO80.html ``Erik, look familiar ;)
17:59.57pooliosweeet
18:00.22pooliobrlcad: how's that worth with like the databases and stuff? can two simultaneous drupal vhosts exist peacefully?
18:02.22brlcadthey have nothing to do with each other
18:02.31brlcadyou could use the same db or an entirely different db
18:02.37pooliohmm alright.
18:02.41brlcadvhosts can be set up fairly arbitrarily too
18:03.00IriX64http://rafb.net/p/Jd17Ls16.html  ``Erik... too sweet :)
18:03.01brlcadvhost, btw would be on "brlcad.org" .. "my.brlcad.org" is a vhost on brlcad.org
18:03.03poolioHmm, so like if I wanted to have my own sited hosted by you that used drupal, that'd work completely fine?
18:03.12brlcadsure
18:03.12pooliobrlcad: well I have my own domain name
18:03.20poolioI justt don't have the box online anymore
18:03.27brlcadah, gotya
18:03.31pooliobrlcad: So how would I go about doing that? Or would you need to do it?
18:03.37brlcadi read it as the name, not the box
18:03.59brlcadbox is generally called just .bz or mbo ;)
18:04.26brlcadyou'd need to update your dns to point to an IP that I'd give you, then I'd set up apache to respond to that name
18:04.37brlcadthen it'd be done
18:04.44pooliobrlcad: I mainly want to get a blog going with the progress of it. As I'm going to be tewaking a lot of variables it'd be nice if I could see my own progress and see if it is in fact progressing, and also that way I can aviod spamming the chat so much with images and descriptions. (and also when people ask what I'm working on I can point them to an explanation as opposed to rewriting paragraphs and paragraphs ;))
18:04.50brlcadtakes all of 10 minutes to set up at most
18:05.06poolioalright cool. whenever you have time that'd be sweet
18:06.14brlcadaiight, the ip can be 66.111.56.56, so just let me know which name
18:07.07pooliowhat do you mean which name? as in what's my domain name?
18:08.47brlcadyes
18:09.03pooliopoolio.org
18:10.02pooliobrlcad has brlcad.org, poolio has poolio.org
18:18.44brlcaddone
18:18.51pooliobrlcad: heh, thanks
18:19.02pooliobrlcad: so what do I need to do on my side? point the domain to that IP?
18:21.26pooliobrlcad: is it ip-based? like can I just forward to the mbo box? and it will disambiguate the IP to the poolio.org vhost?
18:32.17pooliobrlcad: woah, there's something messed up with the DNS as it propogates....I'm pinging poolio.org and half the time I'm getting my home address and the other half I'm getting the right one on mbo :P
18:34.31brlcadpoolio: you update your dns record for poolio.org to point to that IP as the "A" record
18:35.08pooliobrlcad: Yeah I got that, but in terms of how the VHOST works
18:35.12brlcadyou apparently have dns set to everydns.net
18:35.29brlcads/to/through/
18:35.32poolioThat IP is just the IP of mbo, how does it distinguish whcih VHOST to send the request to? via the header?
18:35.39pooliobrlcad: I've updated the records already
18:35.46brlcadrequests come in by the url, by name
18:35.52poolioah alright
18:36.04poolioand setting up drupal? is that hard?
18:36.27brlcadso the apache can be asked to respond to requests for .. pretty much anything -- by default it won't respond to anything it doesn't recognize
18:36.40brlcadyou tell me, have fun :)
18:36.47IriX64http://www.rafb.net/paste/ <--- man, help me out here where's that // coming from?
18:36.51brlcad(no, it's not hard at all .. one of the easiest)
18:37.11pooliobrlcad: alright, so drupal is installed in the my.brlcad.org VHOST, do I have to ..reinstall it in mine?
18:37.16brlcadIriX64: that's an empty pastebin
18:37.23poolioand does the VHOST go to my ~/public_html?
18:37.32IriX64whup, just a sec
18:38.05IriX64http://rafb.net/p/dT8MFf21.html
18:38.08IriX64there
18:38.09brlcadpoolio: no, it doesn't -- you still have your ~poolio home if needed on any of the names (poolio.org/~poolio should respond for example)
18:38.26brlcadit's in a different location
18:38.36louipcit should go to wherever your ip port 80 points to huh?
18:40.20brlcadyep
18:40.57brlcadIriX64: i've got no idea how you got yourself into that situation
18:41.13IriX64mmm i'll try --disable-shared
18:41.13brlcadobviously got a full path in there that should not be there
18:41.26brlcadcould just be an unclean build
18:41.38IriX64thanks will tinker some.
18:41.41brlcadtry "make distclean"
18:41.46IriX64right
18:41.52brlcadthen rerun autogen.sh
18:42.02IriX64doing it now
18:44.43IriX64back to dos work, I'm gonna make this thing run doom yet :)
18:45.44louipcsweet
18:45.45brlcadinside mged? :)
18:45.54IriX64heh in tcl ;)
18:46.06louipcI tried to run the original ultima it was crazy
18:46.26louipceverything was sped up 10x
18:46.30IriX64never tried ultima, have tried wing commander II though
18:46.38IriX64same problem
18:46.51IriX64but doom is speshul :)
18:46.53louipcthere's something out there that will slow it down for you
18:47.03IriX64yeah varislow, i have it
18:47.15brlcadpoolio: also noticed that you have a CNAME record on "www.poolio.org"
18:47.16louipcI forget what it was... hmm is that open source?
18:47.21brlcadyou should remove that or update it
18:47.36IriX64which varislow, i think its public domain
18:47.46louipcah cool
18:48.07IriX64all i have is the binary, no idea where the source is
18:49.01IriX64wcII no speech though something wonky in the sound linkage
18:49.31pooliobrlcad: cname points to poolio.org
18:50.37brlcadmmm. Ultima V
18:51.16brlcadpoolio: ah, my bad -- i was reading something else
18:51.26brlcadcompounded by a stale dns ip result
18:52.26pooliobrlcad: yeah, it's still not updated, i forgot to fix mail.poolio.org, but it doesn't really matter, don't use it anyway
18:53.11IriX64louipc: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/doom.png  <-- that soundblaster not responding is bogus, ive got sound
18:56.00IriX64can't show you a shot of it actually running the demo, silly thing insists on full screen
18:58.13IriX64wcii the same insists on full screen
18:59.12IriX64wonder if i can jury rig soemthing to capture the vga screen to disk...
18:59.29IriX64back burner material
19:13.00IriX64heh forgot to light that burner ;)
19:23.14IriX64back to fun stuff, make install is running in a ntvdm window.
19:23.51IriX64heh wonder if we can call this a windows compiler now :)
19:28.05IriX64blah, never mind its buggered again, time to rethink sections of this cyall l8r.
20:10.33pooliobrlcad: is there any way to view the page as someone not logged in would in drupal? getting sick of logging out
20:59.16louipcpoolio: depends on your browser I guess
20:59.46louipcyou could start a new browser instance, rather than a new window so it has separate cookies etc...
21:01.31louipcThat might be it if you use Firefox: http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/profile
21:15.29``Erikfor that reason, and others
21:15.30``Erik:)
21:17.04``Erikpheer, 'devrys' is hocking a psuedo-degree in video game development
21:17.27louipchaha
21:19.21louipcI called it the 'deliriously expensive vessel for retarded youngins'
21:19.42``Erikhehehe sounds about right
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21:20.00``Erikthese 'get your degree in 3 weeks' outfits are all over the place :(
21:20.17``Erik<-- has an omfg 4y degree that is omfg csab accredited
21:20.33``Erikpart of me feels that it was too little training
21:20.51``Eriknot 'nuff time for even the brightest O.o I might go back for a doctorate in cs
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02:24.10pooliolouipc: ah yeah, forgot about that, thanks
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13:14.08MaloeranHey, I haven't been around for some time. I'm trying to convert the Stanford .ply models to .g through ply-g but it gives me "This PLY file appears to contain no geometry!!!". Yet, with -v, it claims to find the vertices and indices. Any thoughts?
13:14.58MaloeranBefore I try to fix it or write my own converter, I'm just wondering if it could be a known glitch
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14:50.52MaloeranNevermind, got it
15:09.28brlcadwhat was it?
15:09.43brlcadand howdy Maloeran
15:10.42MaloeranI was trying to convert the .ply point files, not the reconstructed triangle geometry :)
15:11.10MaloeranI'm fine, cleaning up Rayforce a bit which Mark wants to present at Siggraph. Will you guys be there?
15:11.24brlcadyeah
15:12.17brlcadso you're presenting it at siggraph? a paper, a sketch, a poster?
15:12.39MaloeranNone of the above, Mark reserved a... booth, but I'm not too sure how that works
15:12.59brlcadoh, heh .. interesting
15:13.09MaloeranJust to present the software I guess, but I wonder if it's a whole day thing, or if I'll have time to wander around
15:13.21brlcadsounds like it might be on the expo floor then
15:14.00brlcadso are you attending, or just going for a day or two or?
15:14.14brlcaddo you know which day?
15:14.37MaloeranI'm attending for the whole week, I just hope I won't have to stay at that booth thing for the whole time :)
15:14.51brlcadah, okay, cool
15:15.00MaloeranI'll be bringing my desktop to run the demos on
15:15.08brlcadyou went last year iirc, yes?
15:15.39MaloeranI didn't, I only went to the Interactive Raytracing and the other one about Visualization with you guys
15:16.14brlcadoh, wow.. so this will be your first siggraph then?  that should be fun
15:16.30MaloeranSo far, I didn't find these social gatherings very appealing
15:16.41louipcyou need more booze
15:16.55MaloeranVerbal communication is great for the interactivity aspect, but I would rather read papers than listen to presentations
15:18.26MaloeranShould I understand that Siggraph is generally more interesting than the conferences we went to at Salt Lake City and Baltimore?
15:18.26brlcadto each their own, though siggraph is a bit different than rt07 and vis
15:18.42brlcadsiggraph is *huge* in comparison
15:19.18brlcadway more variety, way more of everything (technical and non-technical, art and scientific, etc)
15:19.36MaloeranAh, sounds good
15:20.06brlcadgenerally very beautiful and interesting to attend
15:20.56brlcadso is mark attending too?
15:21.22MaloeranYes, and he's bringing his whole family! :) And, similarly, I'll bring my desktop
15:21.38brlcadheh
15:21.50brlcadwell that should be interesting
15:22.47MaloeranIs Erik coming as well? Lee, Justin?
15:23.03brlcadthat you know of, only myself and lee
15:23.18MaloeranAh, okay
15:24.04brlcadany other guys going from your group?
15:24.39MaloeranHum, not that I'm aware of
15:25.22brlcadbob or keith would be the only candidates that come to mind
15:25.41brlcadbut then never know what mark is up to sometimes :)
15:26.07brlcadso what have you been up to?  you sorta disappeared
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15:26.51MaloeranAh yes, I think I unconsciously stopped the ritual of attaching irc clients, it was way too time consuming
15:27.19MaloeranI used to help people for 1-3 hours daily on Efnet *shivers*. I have been busy with computational fluid dynamics mostly, it's very interesting, amazingly challenging
15:27.47brlcadcfd work eh .. any pictures to show? :)
15:28.49MaloeranNone yet, but I'm really close to that.
15:29.34MaloeranI spent about 2 months just learning the physics involved ; viscosity, turbulence, speed of sound... They want me to rewrite some horrible 50k lines Fortran code
15:30.00MaloeranIt's not just horrible, it's plain wrong ( no conservation of momentum, etc. )
15:30.06brlcadand of course knowing you, you're almost done then :)
15:30.25MaloeranEh well, not exactly :), mostly because I'm aiming very high
15:30.50MaloeranThey didn't even have conservation of momentum... and I want to give them shockwaves, blasts, turbulence, viscosity
15:31.02brlcadso what's to come of rayforce then?  I imagine this demo at siggraph is mark's way to try and market it
15:31.36brlcador is rayforce development coming to an end as you move into cfd?
15:31.40MaloeranI took a long break, I was saturated of Raytracing, I think I was beginning to feel physical pain when I tried to force me to work on it near the end
15:31.51brlcadyeah, I got that
15:32.08brlcadi mean that was noticeably visible even over irc that you were burning out
15:32.41MaloeranAh, quite true... Survice doesn't know that, but the first few months, I think I was doing nothing but work. I mean 60-80 hours a week
15:33.01MaloeranAnyhow, regarding Rayforce, Mark has plans to integrate it into their software, Archer's successor, and see if there's commerical potential
15:34.08brlcadinteresting
15:35.01brlcadbut then I think that for most code that's not got an analysis association
15:35.56MaloeranIt's not really mainstream software, being open-source is not that... critical, if I may say. Besides, I'll certainly never allow the patents to get in the way of open-source developers
15:36.38Maloeran( Mark registered patents to my name on the techniques )
15:37.35brlcaddoesn't have to be mainstream to be intersting and useful :)
15:37.50brlcadinformation wants to be free :)
15:38.31Maloeran:) Oh, I agree. It may well end up open-source, I think Mark just wants to see if there's commercial potential at Siggraph
15:38.46brlcadyeah, I got that much :)
15:39.55MaloeranI have doubts myself, I don't think it performs that much better ( if at all better ) to Reschetov's latest code, or whoever else's. I haven't followed raytracing papers
15:39.57brlcadhe's unfortunately not got the demo connections to throw around at siggraph (I think) in order to make that happen
15:40.28MaloeranHe spoke of Dreamworks and some other group that are supposed to come by the booth
15:40.39brlcadwell he'll undoubtedly be at siggraph, you can just ask Reschetov :)
15:41.08MaloeranGood point :)
15:43.12MaloeranI'm surprised the Stanford models appear actually more costly to render than CAD geometry
15:43.42MaloeranOnly 30M rays/sec on that 70k triangles bunny, one third of the 140k triangles M1
15:44.04brlcadthey're mostly scan conversions, pathologically dense triangle surface sets
15:44.42brlcadinteresting models, but far from representative of anything other than scan-conversion geometry
15:44.47Maloeran*nods* I thought this would produce good graphs since there are no long thin triangles, I guess that was wrong
15:47.03*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:47.12MaloeranOn a completely different topic, is it safe enough to carry computer cases by plane? I would bring the hard drives with me
15:47.32pooliomornin
15:47.34brlcadsafe enough?
15:47.44brlcaddon't see why not
15:47.55brlcadi'll be taking my laptop and working on the plane
15:47.57MaloeranRegarding damage to components from being thrown around, and I wouldn't want anyone at the luggage collection to just pick up the 3K$ case
15:48.18brlcadoh, you mean like a desktop
15:48.19MaloeranA laptop is different, you carry it with you ;)
15:48.21MaloeranYes
15:48.26brlcadeek
15:48.31brlcadgood question
15:48.32MaloeranA big and heavy desktop computer case
15:48.37pooliowhere you guys headed?
15:48.56brlcadpoolio: siggraph in san diego
15:49.01pooliohehe, enjoy
15:49.04pooliowhen is that?
15:49.10brlcadin about two weeks
15:50.08MaloeranAny thoughts about carrying a case, brlcad? Or I could somehow ship it, but I'm not sure that's really better
15:50.11brlcadMaloeran: I'd be rather uncomfortable sending a machine that way, I'd probably ship it
15:51.12brlcadgoing to cost probably 50-100 to ship it each way, depending on the weight
15:51.22MaloeranI still have the case's cardboard box and styrofoam, but it's clearly a box for a large computer case
15:51.55brlcadwell that's great then .. can put it in that box and take it to some place like dhl
15:52.31pooliobrlcad: are you doing a presentation at siggraph?
15:52.38brlcadpoolio: not this year
15:52.39MaloeranSo you would recommend this over bringing it as luggage
15:52.51brlcadyeah, there is zero guarantee with luggage
15:53.07brlcadit might come out fine, it might be destroyed
15:53.21poolioMaloeran: just buy a sweet ass laptop like brlcad :)
15:53.33brlcadit'd be a gamble, with the dice being thrown by someone that makes $10/hr
15:53.43MaloeranI don't think there are 8 cores Clovertown laptops around here :)
15:54.10MaloeranI see. Well, with the hard drives out... I don't know how resistant to shocks that stuff is
15:54.29poolioMaloeran: geez. not fair. gimme one
15:55.00pooliothere's no chance you could borrow/rent/use someone elses nice desktop?
15:55.36MaloeranIt's more like a high-end server machine than a desktop
15:55.42brlcadMaloeran: put it inside your luggage and then imagine throwing it outside a second-story building -- would you be comfortable with that?
15:55.52brlcadthat's a perfectly viable scenario that can happen
15:56.09MaloeranOuch, ouch.
15:56.29MaloeranOkay, looking into DHL
15:57.55brlcadit (should be) survice's dime, so it shouldn't matter .. better to just be safe, otherwise there is no demo
15:58.33brlcadthat 100 or so is dwarfed by how much it's costing to send two guys
15:59.19MaloeranRight. If I ship it, that would free my hands to bring a bicycle too ; my hotel is 7 miles away
15:59.33brlcadouch
15:59.50brlcadit's on the trolly route I hope?
16:00.09brlcadis it a siggraph hotel?
16:00.34MaloeranI think so, it was reserved indirectly from their site
16:01.22brlcadthe sheraton?
16:01.44MaloeranChecking...
16:01.51brlcadyou might be in the same building as three other guys
16:01.55MaloeranHILTON SAN DIEGO MISSION VALLEY
16:01.59brlcadahh
16:02.20brlcadat least it's a little better
16:02.55brlcadhopefully has internet, though you can generally hang out at the convention center until late on the wifi
16:03.06MaloeranDo you know if there's some kind of shuttle service for all siggraph hotels?
16:03.20brlcadthere is shuttle service if it's a siggraph hotel
16:03.30MaloeranOh hum :), I actually gave my laptop to a friend who was leaving for Japan for 2 years, I was very rarely using it
16:04.18MaloeranIn a way, that's also why I'm bringing my desktop
16:05.32MaloeranWell, it looks like I won't be able to raytrace a 28 million triangles model, malloc() refuses to cooperate
16:06.17brlcadstrap the desktop to your back, a UPS to your chest, and you're good to go!
16:07.10brlcadTwingy was gonna do that one year with an O2 *ahem*, that woulda been fscking awesome :)
16:07.18MaloeranWoohoo! And a bicycle of course, how else would a bring such a heavy E-ATX case?
16:07.25MaloeranHum :)
16:08.17MaloeranDo you have any intelligent normal smoothing code somewhere in BRL-CAD?
16:09.05MaloeranSomething that considers angles between triangles, angles between facet vectors, to smooth and spawn new vertices when appropriate
16:10.19MaloeranI wrote something a long time ago but it's brute force, it isn't meant for models of million triangles
16:10.22brlcadrt_bot_smooth()
16:10.33brlcadnot sure how "intelligent" it is, but there is a routine for it
16:10.53MaloeranDo you know if it will create new vertices rather than smoothing when appropriate?
16:10.56brlcadit's in src/librt/g_bot.c at the end
16:11.49brlcadno, it isn't going to create more vertices iirc
16:12.05brlcadit just smooths the ones you have
16:12.19MaloeranRight, it's a bit too primitive. It would create rather horrible results on a cube for example
16:12.31brlcadbasically:
16:12.32brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:12.35brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:12.39brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:12.41brlcad<PROTECTED>
16:12.54brlcadbecause siggraph says miles :)
16:13.03``Erikah
16:13.08``Erik7mi ~= 10km
16:13.08MaloeranEheh Erik, the website said the hotel was 7 miles away. I have no idea what's that in km
16:13.24``Erik.62 miles = 1km
16:13.38MaloeranRight, it's a long walk, or a tiring run
16:13.39brlcadibot: convert 7 miles to kilometers
16:13.57``Erikaboot ten, eh?
16:14.20``Erikis that hooked into the 'units' program?
16:14.30brlcadbeats me
16:14.35brlcadhave to look at blootbot's source
16:14.47brlcadbut probably
16:15.42``Eriksomething not addressed by most unit conversion packages... a bit trickier than the 0 base ones, but quite doable :(
16:16.03MaloeranErik, may I ask what's the official reason you aren't going to Siggraph this year? Since Sean and others are going
16:16.04``Erikif nothing else, grok kelvin vs C, and rankines vs F... ...
16:16.20``Erikbecause I'm not "special", and it's written into seans contract?
16:16.38``ErikI was on the initial list, but my bosses bosses bosses bosses bosses boss said "only 3 gov't people go"
16:16.44``Erikand I wasn't on that omfg list
16:17.28``Erikit's stupid, and one of the reasons I'm about ready to step back into the civil sector.
16:18.44MaloeranSurvice looks like a nice place from what I have seen, there are some challenging problems to solve
16:19.09MaloeranThey basically let me pick what I wanted to work on, and CFD looked fun :)
16:19.13``Erikthere're always challenging problems, but I'm kinda lookng at going back to the midwest, I can afford a ferakin' mansion out there
16:19.58``ErikI have an offer for a very comfortable job there that pays the same as what I make now... "choose your own hours, work from home" etc
16:19.59``Erik..
16:20.09``ErikI need to figure out where I'm going *sigh*
16:20.51``ErikI half suspect that if I land a decent job and regain the joy of coding, I'll be able to do more for brlcad than where I'm at now :/
16:21.25MaloeranAre there any hopes of change within the ARL if you let managers know your dissatisfaction?
16:21.38``Erik<-- has a strong urge to link brlcad to the gaming group
16:21.39MaloeranI can understand that :/
16:22.02``Erikum, I've let several layers of mgmt know my discontent in no uncertain terms several times
16:22.05MaloeranBrlcad, gaming? These two concepts don't appear to mix too well
16:22.19``Erikbrlcad to generate the game models and maps, :)
16:22.39MaloeranAnd there's no effort to move you around internally where you would be happier?
16:22.42``Erikthey'll put all sorts of insane pressure on mr brlcad to make it a user friendly modeling package, and mebbehe can sell it
16:22.56``Erikthere is effort to accept me... there is resistance to release me
16:23.25``Erikso on tuesday, I need to do the "I'm leaving, pick where I go, arl or outside" speach
16:23.51MaloeranWell, there's good people at Survice if you want to look that way. Mark is the opposite of the pointy haired manager stereotype
16:24.32brlcadand have been for years, that's why it's priority #1 and pretty much all of the work going on even now has been towards solving that problem :)
16:24.39``Erikmeh, if I escape gov't life, it'll be in a big way, I surpect
16:25.05``Erikhehehe, if game devers get into it, mebbe they'd throw their towel in teh ring and support it, other than bitching :)
16:25.28``Erik<-- thinks the biggest os boon would be to get serious attention from the videogame wannabees...
16:25.53``Erikand I like to imagine that I'm not too terribly wrong too terribly often
16:26.00brlcadlog cabin in the middle of nowhere with an OC128
16:26.52pooliobrlcad: poolio.org is up, thanks again
16:27.39brlcadno problemo, nifty
16:28.47brlcadwhich is what I've been doing all weekend so far
16:28.48pooliobrlcad: oh weird, it doesn't work for me, i get a blank page? what....? it worked fine last night :\
16:28.49brlcadgood stuff
16:29.37brlcadpoolio: it's working just fine here
16:29.47brlcadmaybe browser cache junk
16:29.55poolioyeah appears to be
16:30.45MaloeranMmhm, gamedev.  I had a strange urge to create a warcraft 3 map about two months ago ; I spent about 10 days sleeping only once every 2 days, that was... peculiar
16:31.00MaloeranTheir scripting language is actually very complete
16:31.43``Erik'world of warcraft' seems to use lua
16:31.59``ErikI've also been acutely interested in 'bos' and 'danger from the deep'
16:32.14``Erikboth have freendoe channels that I lurk... #bos and #dangerdeep :)
16:32.28``Erikgetting mac builds of either is... highly interesting, as they both use scons
16:32.29``Erik:/
16:32.35MaloeranI haven't heard of these. I just wanted to create a good, deep and long multiplayer campaign map
16:33.04brlcadhttp://spring.clan-sy.com/
16:33.08``Erikdangerdeep is a semi-realistic ww2 sub sim, bos is kinda like a starcrafty clone
16:34.03MaloeranNever heard of scons, and I mostly broke your autoconf stuff in Rayforce once again :). For some reason, it's compiling the same files 5 times, once for each binary
16:34.31``Erik'scons' is a python make imitation, from people who don't understand portability trying to outdo autoconfs portability...
16:34.32``Erik:/
16:34.41``Erikit's a flaming piece of crap, imho.
16:35.00``Erikum, you must've used name prefixes
16:35.23MaloeranI get .o files such as rfdemo-img.o, rfmaster-img.o, etc. for the img.c file
16:35.43brlcadah, you set FLAGS
16:36.06MaloeranAh yes, I set CFLAGS
16:36.08brlcadsince the cppflags/cflags can cause different compilation results
16:36.33MaloeranI see, good point. Though, in this case, it doesn't actually matter
16:36.36brlcade.g. make CFLAGS="-DBEHAVE_DIFFERENT_FOR_RFDEMO"
16:37.20brlcadset AM_CFLAGS instead of it should be global and the multicomp should go away iirc
16:37.36brlcads/of/if/
16:37.51MaloeranThanks, I'll try that
16:38.39brlcadit's the rfdemo_CFLAGS that will usually cause the prefixed compilation results
16:39.49Maloeran*nods* It works.  I mostly broke Erik's autoconf stuff when I thrown SDL away to use X11 directly so I can do proper and efficient frame buffering
16:40.12*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548757E2.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:40.52MaloeranDo you know if X on OSX and other platforms have the Xxf86vm extensions?
16:42.07brlcadI believe OS X has that, but should probably test for it in configure regardless
16:42.13brlcadi think mplayer has a test for that
16:42.43Maloeranconfigure is still testing for SDL at the moment, but I'll attempt to correct that
16:43.13``Erikwhat's so terribly wrong with sdl? O.o
16:43.44``Erikit's been used to make sprite based games that run over 60fps on very low end hw
16:43.48MaloeranIt's impossible to render multiple frames simultaneously without having to copy the whole data *twice* to get it visible
16:43.59MaloeranYes yes, it's all good as long as you render just one frame at a time
16:44.28``Erikhum, I thought there was a flag to set for 'direct' drawing, so double-buffering would be completely under developer control
16:45.19MaloeranI dig far in the code, I even put out a quick patch to implement multiple frame buffers but the SDL developers weren't interested
16:45.41MaloeranBecause "Most people don't need that" and because "'S' stands for Simple"
16:45.59``Erikhum, did they say why?
16:46.25brlcadreasonable test for Xxf86vm in http://profile.iiita.ac.in/smajumdar_00/xine/xine-ui-0.9.21/configure.ac
16:46.46MaloeranI can imagine that most people only render one frame at a time, it's understandable, but that's not acceptable in my case
16:46.53MaloeranThanks brlcad
16:47.16``ErikI would imagine that if it ere argued coherently, sammy woulda picked it up :/
16:47.29``Erikhe seems to be reasonable
16:47.56MaloeranI don't think I had chatted with the lead programmer, just one of his minion
16:48.36brlcadminion's are useless for getting core changes
16:48.47``Eriksam langtingua or whatever, that's the homey to talk to
16:48.52``Erikhe watches the mailing list
16:49.29MaloeranBefore I wrote the code for it, I posted on the mailing list to ask for thoughts on the idea, the feature was "unlikely" to be implemented
16:49.49``Eriklame
16:49.56MaloeranIt required changes for every platform and I only did the X11 one, so I can understand why they were reluctant
16:50.06MaloeranBut anyway, things are working nicely using X11 directly
16:50.21``Eriknothing wrong with straight x11 if you're *nix only
16:50.22``Erik:)
16:50.30MaloeranExactly :)
16:51.05``Erik<-- has a couple striaght x11 programs in his devel/ tree
16:52.02Maloeran*nods* So do I
16:52.23MaloeranThe documentation on the API and extensions is sometimes lacking, I found that a bit annoying
16:52.52``Erik<-- may be a weirdo, but truely enjoys saurkraut as a hot dog topping
16:53.11Maloeran"This parameter is... a mask flag! And we'll let you guess the rest, what it's for and what values it can take."
16:53.24``Erikhehehe
16:56.31MaloeranWhat could make AM_CFLAGS be ignored in a Makefile.am? Suddently, it's not added to the compilation lines anymore
16:58.00MaloeranAh nevermind, it's only automatic if no specific CFLAGS are specified for a binary. Got it
16:59.09brlcadyeah, per-binary overrrides, you'd have to say you wanted them if you override like rfdemo_CFLAGS="${AM_CFLAGS} -O1000 -DYUM"
16:59.31Maloeran*nods* Thank you
17:13.46*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177878662.dsl.bell.ca)
17:17.38IriX64errors everywhere and make keeps on trucking (my new and improved -i(gnore) switch works beautifullu)
17:17.59IriX64-u+y
17:19.50IriX64http://rafb.net/p/Lm7x7L15.html  < ---- see
17:21.07poolioI think there's a reasons errors cause aborting
17:21.33IriX64there is but sometimes you know (ill fix it later type of thing)
17:22.02IriX64why let one bit of the project keep you from testing the rest
17:22.39pooliowell if the entire rest of the project depends on that part...
17:22.46poolioIriX64: also, got my website up and running: poolio.org
17:22.56IriX64agreed then your hornswoggled
17:23.07IriX64http://poolio.org?
17:23.55pooliojah
17:24.45IriX64hahah nice site (jokingly says needs fleshing out )  ducking and running :)
17:25.11poolioit's minimal. not designed to be pretty or fleshed out. no need.
17:25.17IriX64better than mine
17:26.03poolionever seen yours ;)
17:26.32IriX64heh yah you have its just got some files on it (supposed to put a page up but i'm lazy)
17:27.50IriX64maybe i'll re-install staroffice and design a page
17:28.21IriX6464bit staroffice? /me muses
17:31.28IriX64that disk crash did me good, I've never had so much fun putting things back where they're sposed to be, I'm about 50%recovered
17:32.08MaloeranYou should install Gentoo, you'll have a lot of fun constantly fixing stuff
17:33.36IriX64heh i'm busy enough as it is
17:34.14pooliobusy enough fixing windows constantly :)
17:34.24MaloeranRecently, I just installed some package for a library, and... PAM broke with "Module not found" so it was impossible to log in, then fsck.ext3 had disappeared so it didn't want to mount the root partition, and a couple other pleasant discoveries
17:34.47pooliolivecd to the rescue?
17:35.00MaloeranInstalling that package just "removed" many critical pieces, even thought Portage still believed they were installed
17:35.16MaloeranAh, I fixed things manually, I know Linux enough by now :)
17:35.26Maloeraneven though*
17:35.30pooliohmm, just switched over to debian from gentoo. really like it so far. apt-get upgrade is around 30x faster than emerge -u world
17:37.24MaloeranI prefer to do things manually to a great extend, but there's something wrong when installing a library removes many chunks of critical software everywhere
17:37.53poolionot the Gentoo Penguin?
17:38.07MaloeranThe Gentoo mascot is a cow, is it not? Or it used to be
17:38.26pooliohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_penguin
17:38.46pooliohttp://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml
17:38.48poolioI think you're right
17:38.55poolionamed after a penguin, but their mascot is a cow, hmm.
17:39.14IriX64my mascot is #undef ;)
17:50.07IriX64http://rafb.net/p/0cqq9B36.html are you interested in this? it's tedit in mged
17:53.08IriX64never mind its that wgl stuff
17:53.22brlcadIriX64: no, i'm not interestd in that :)
17:53.30IriX64thought so :)
17:53.40brlcadas it's a random error after you've provoked the build way too many times to get that far to be useful
17:54.01IriX64heh come its semi-useful :)
17:55.50IriX64provoked the build ... interesting is that why it's biting my hand off ;)
17:57.34IriX64btw i'm just exploring, and theres quite a bit of wgl stuff, dm_xvars.h and dm_wgl.h have issues
17:59.02brlcadof course they do
17:59.16brlcadit all stems from your configure tests not working as they are expected to
17:59.24brlcadthat has been the problem from the beginning
17:59.34brlcadfor months and months, it hasn't changed
17:59.36IriX64well I told you my system was strange
17:59.57brlcadit doesn't matter if it's strange of now, it's just configure tests
18:00.08IriX64you indicated you wouldn/t mind me pasting the errors as they might prove usefull
18:00.10brlcadthe tests aren't doing what's expected, and until they do, this will be the case
18:00.33brlcadi also said it entirely depends on how you get those errors
18:00.41brlcadrandom errors are not useful
18:00.58brlcadmethodical ones done in progress can be if it's isolatable
18:01.21IriX64btw that tree still awairts you
18:01.25IriX64awaits too
18:01.26brlcadif you edit *anything* that you've not been asked to edit, then it's a random error
18:01.46brlcadif it's an error after *any* previous error, then it's effectively a random error
18:01.47IriX64good now we're clear
18:02.08brlcadwe've been "clear" a couple dozen times :)
18:02.26IriX64heh i know but at the very least its comic releif no:)
18:02.35MaloeranPractice makes perfect!
18:02.49IriX64ill keep practicing
18:03.32IriX64thanks for letting me hang out is what i'm trying to say here.
18:04.33brlcadyou could be so much more productive on brl-cad if you simply wanted to be, and gave yourself credit when it was due for effort you do put in that helps
18:05.38brlcadif your build environment were working, you'd probably be a great regression tester :)
18:05.46IriX64http://rafb.net/p/OheeIZ16.html <--- thanks, this is more fun, make did it i really don't think itll run that was supposed to be a mingw32 build :)
18:06.42brlcadi think you might have missed about four periods there :)
18:07.16IriX64heh
18:09.22IriX64looking for the jove.exe, it's not there i wonder why :)
18:11.18MaloeranYay, typical.  SSE3 added wonderful instructions such as haddps for horizontal adding... except that it's slower than the sequence movaps,shufps,addps which produces the same result
18:12.36IriX64you using a dissasembler Maloeran?
18:14.26MaloeranNo, trying to optimize some code
18:19.41IriX64by hand? kudos
18:21.15IriX64which processor, may I ask?
18:21.26MaloeranYes although I'm mostly trying to get GCC to produce good code from C instead.  As always, it's not going too well, GCC is rather stupid regarding register allocation and memory aliasing
18:21.29MaloeranXeon Clovertown
18:22.10IriX6416? or 8?
18:22.46MaloeranHum, I don't understand the question
18:22.53IriX64gcc? what version supports that?
18:23.33MaloeranAh, I'm using gcc 4.1.2 but the mtune optimisation swich is -mtune=nocona, the same as Core 2 chips
18:23.41IriX64doesn't matter im in over my head anyway :)
18:24.26IriX64mine is a simple opteron
18:24.54IriX64but im trying for global coverage instead of targetting one processor
18:27.24IriX64although -march=opteron -mtune=opteron works here
18:27.31IriX64err =
19:04.47*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-095-079.pools.arcor-ip.net)
21:02.13louipcWhat's a good way to describe BRL-CAD as powerful without actually using the word? It seems too many packages use that magic word.
21:02.56``Erik'big hairy balls'
21:03.21``Erikit has over 400 specialty tools built on it *shrug*
21:03.35louipccomprehensive? hah
21:03.53louipchmm
21:05.31louipcextensive!
21:20.47``Erik*shrug* throw the #'s out? 30 years in the making, over 400 binaries, ... *shrug*
21:38.49louipcthat might work
21:41.01``Erikis it just me, or is mia kirshner totally rompable? O.o
21:41.37louipcoh yeah
21:42.49``Erik'not another teen movie' is on comedy central...
21:43.00louipcheheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070723

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070723

01:24.12*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
02:42.20*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177879183.dsl.bell.ca)
02:44.44IriX64set \=/ doesn't cut it :)
02:46.44IriX64ideas, raspberries, anything at all :)
02:50.33thing0umm
02:50.35thing0no idea
02:50.37thing0;P
02:51.13IriX64:)
02:55.14IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/1024.png
02:55.21IriX64incoming :)
02:56.17IriX64frame buffer? frame buffer? that's not a frame buffer. now *that's a frame buffer (shades of crocodile dundee:))
02:59.52IriX64http://rafb.net/p/f66j4y13.html <--- still getting this though when I try to attach to X
03:03.14IriX64http://rafb.net/p/uQAosD65.html <-- there's the dump if you want it
03:04.50thing0afk
03:04.51thing0cya
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06:22.20IriX64http://rafb.net/p/tkZi4B77.html <--- i coerced the build to cough this lung cookie up too, you interested?
06:23.57IriX64thank God for -Wl,-allow-multiple-definition ;)
06:26.52IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8dpmxK32.html <--- see, I'll keep coercing the build, if anything interesting pops up ill pastebin it
06:27.43brlcadplease don't -- if you coerce it, it's no longer interesting
06:27.59IriX64I'll tickle it instead
06:28.34IriX64cmon thats blatant
06:28.36brlcaddo whatever you like with it, just don't trail the noise into here via pastebins of random issues
06:28.47IriX64ok ok
07:05.44IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jove.png     and issues.png is what i get with a coereced build ;)
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14:06.46pooliobrlcad: I'm working on mutation, and currently all the stuff is going to be completely hard-coded in. Is there any sort of routine where I can say function(rt_db_internal) and somehow iterate through every changeable value?
14:07.22poolioI guess the other option would be to just have a switch statement and then have a function pointer for each type of object, I was just wondering if something like that had been done before
14:29.20brlcadnot sure what you mean by iterate through every changeable value
14:30.29brlcadthere is already a table (rt_functab) that has function pointers to various functionality, though whether that's useful is another matter of course.. not sure what you're getting at :)
14:31.45poolioW
14:31.45poolioW|10:31| <@    brlcad> there is already a table (rt_functab) that has function pointers to various functionality, though  whether that's useful is another matter of course.. not sure what you'
14:31.49poolioah oops
14:31.51pooliosorry
14:34.19pooliobrlcad: Well what I meant was like I need to be able to change every specific value for each shape. So currently I have it setup to test which shape it is, and then depending on what shape, it can change certain specific values specific to that shape. So I was wondering if there was a way to generalize the way I go about this, I currently hard code in say if(sphere){rand = rand()%num_variables_can_be_changed_in_sphere; mutate(rand);}
14:34.40poolioIs there a way I could have something like x = num_specific_vars(shape)?
14:40.54brlcadpoolio: the closest you could probably do is work with the tcl string representation of the primitive but even then you need to know what the values mean
14:41.08brlcadyou're still only going to support a limited set of primitives
14:41.55brlcadyou wouldn't likely ever create a DSP terrain object, for example, nor want to know how to genericly specify one
14:43.02brlcadyour idea of having a switch statement and then functions for each primitive type that beset understands is probably the best approach
14:44.24dtidrowhttp://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202930159&adid=17051&dcaid=17051 - nice!
14:47.18brlcadvery nice
14:47.33Laniakea_``Erik: emulation?
14:48.07brlcadLaniakea_: did that compilation problem ever get sorted out?
14:49.09Laniakea_brlcad: no Erik said he has to try out OpenBSD emulated
14:49.18brlcadah, ok
14:49.26Laniakea_brlcad: we did about 2 steps in debugging and then it goot too complicated for remote debugging
14:59.35pooliodtidrow: I think I might buy that, I need an external. Is that recommended or are you just going off price?
14:59.38pooliobrlcad: alright, I'llget on that
15:00.08brlcadpoolio: I think it's just the price
15:00.15brlcad200 for a TB is pretty sweet
15:09.45dtidrowyeah, that was just the lowest I've seen a 500GB external at
15:10.01dtidrownon-rebated price, that is
15:10.32dtidrowseen a few that were $100 post-rebate, but the real price was around $125-$130
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16:19.08pooliobrlcad: hrm, I'm having some issues understanding the internal representation of the union tree and such. I see that if the leaf is OP_SOLID, it stores region and soltab data. If I modify the soltab, and write out the new union tree, is the soltab for the shape that was modified (in the node of the union tree) going to modify the shape which that nodes represents?
16:22.16poolioOr would I have to retrieve the internal object, and modify the idb_ptr, and write out the internal object?
16:28.42brlcadI believe you have to do the latter
16:30.34brlcadnot 100% positive, but my vague recollection is that you have to write out objects one at a time, and writing out the tree basically amounts to writing out a bunch of combinations (and leaving the leaves alone) .. could be mistaken.  feel free to either provide a routine in librt that does this, or let me know if the routine that writes out the tree does it already :)
16:46.52poolioyeah it's the latter
16:48.54pooliobrlcad: I don't think the solid and region data is written out
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17:08.29idayls -al
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17:21.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: I only have 11 minutes before my session runs out, is there anything that needs doing that is urgent?
17:30.25MinuteElectrong2g my internet session is over
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18:00.37brlcadack
18:00.49dtidrowack?
18:00.50poolioa bit late?
18:00.53brlcadyup
18:01.03brlcadneeded him to enable my drupal account access
18:02.02poolioif you've got root access can't you just fudge with the files and get it yourself?
18:02.19brlcadof course
18:02.29pooliojust more effort / not proper?
18:02.53brlcadnot worth the effort/time, even if mildly trivial
18:02.56brlcadi can wait
19:18.36MaloeranFrom MinuteElectron, I'm curious to understand this concept of timed "internet sessions". I thought internet connectivity was eternal, as permanent as life itself. My believes are shaken
19:20.06poolioEver been to an internet cafe?
19:20.16poolio:)
19:27.56brlcadMaloeran: maybe he runs his computer off of a UPS and is only able to charge it with a bicycle generator ;)
19:29.47pooliobrlcad: hackaday?
19:30.51pooliobrlcad: I've been tweaking the crossover/reporduction setup and it is still getting stuck on a sphere...
19:32.41poolioIt's weird... like if I try to do any sort of scaling using the number of nodes in the tree it seems to always converge on a sphere
19:33.07brlcadsounds like a bug :)
19:33.46pooliodur :P
19:34.40pooliobrlcad: I think the fitness value is being truncated somewhere, and all the fitness values are turning out the same, or something... I'm gonna keep digging, I had it working before I incorporated tree depth into the fitness equation
19:35.10poolioalso, if I have the time I'd be curious to write some sort of plugin/routine for beset where you could specificy the fitness equation :)
19:36.08brlcadheh
19:36.48brlcada gui would be more immediately useful than pluggable fitness equations so long as there are parameters for the pop size, mutation rates, crossover rates, etc
19:36.59brlcadbut that would be kinda interesting, yeah :)
19:37.27pooliowell, the issue is I need to fine tune the equation to make it work, like how much of a penalty for tree depth, how much
19:37.30pooliowait
19:37.35poolioI guess it's really just factoring in tree depth :P
19:38.16poolioIt's also getting to the point where testing is a pain in the butt. Takes like a minute to run and a minute to generate the visualization
19:38.34poolioI run smaller tests, but I need to do moderately sized ones to really check stuff
19:39.24brlcaduntil you get two sphere's working, there's little point in working towards more ;)
19:39.26poolioand also, the GUI isn't useful if the backend is b0rked :)
19:39.44pooliobrlcad: Well, the issue is I'm not sure whether to do mutation, I feel like crossover+reproduction should definitely work on the two spheres example
19:39.46brlcador even matching arbitrary primitives (from a list)
19:40.00brlcadthat would be my assertion as well
19:40.17brlcadI feel you should definitely be able to converge on two spheres
19:40.22pooliomatching arbitrary primitives should already work, the issue is just spawning a population that is a good representative of the problem space
19:41.17brlcadshould and will are very different ;)
19:41.40poolio:\
19:41.50pooliohmm, slightly better results, let me upload
19:44.36poolioHehe, mged does surprisingly well drawing 400 objects at once :)
19:45.08brlcad:)
19:45.27brlcadmost real models have thousands of objects
19:45.51pooliobrlcad:  http://poolio.org/index.php?q=node/7
19:46.06brlcadthat's actually one of the things mged's relatively good at in comparison, it can open Pro/E models that Pro/E can't even open
19:46.22poolioyeah, but my machine is chugging on the 400
19:47.28brlcadnice, that is much better
19:48.08brlcadit still got stuck but it actually seemed to converge roughly in the vicinity of the geometry fairly well
19:49.31poolioYeah but I'd still expect better results from what I thought was such a trivial example
19:50.46poolioreducing the problem space gave a lot better results
19:56.30pooliobrlcad: here: http://poolio.org/files/mon_1.jpg
19:56.57poolioI'm gonna grab a bite to eat while I run a larger test.
20:06.32brlcadthere's still something really fish
20:06.48brlcadi mean it basically converged to a single best after just the fourth iteration
20:07.48poolioyes, which doesn't make much sense
20:07.52poolioit could have to do with mutation/reproduction rates
20:07.57brlcadeither sample population is too small, or mutation rate is too low, or mutation and/or crossover isn't working would be my guess
20:07.58pooliowell there is no mutation
20:08.11brlcadah, no mutation yet
20:08.15poolioit's just that crossover isn't producing any better individuals
20:08.23poolioalthough...let me find this quote, one sec
20:08.28brlcadstill, even with just crossover and random generation
20:08.36brlcadhow are you currently doing crossover?
20:09.16pooliowell there is no random generation
20:09.21pooliook the current setup is thus:
20:09.45poolioa) spawn initial population -- currently done by creating 3 spheres at random positions in a certain limited domain with a random radius
20:10.02poolioand then
20:10.04pooliofor each generation
20:10.09poolio<PROTECTED>
20:10.16poolioactually let me just write this up
20:10.19poolioit's a lot for IRC :P
20:10.49brlcadcrossover really needs to be pretty complex enough to allow a configuration parameter defined such that the top N (# or %) proceed unmodified, the bottom M (# or %) are killed, and of the remaining middle perform your random crossover pairings
20:11.50pooliohmm
20:11.56brlcadfor those killed, newly generated are spawned of course
20:12.01poolioI don't just use the top N
20:12.21poolioI'm using the tournament selection method, where the probability of selecting an individual correlates to its fitness
20:12.29pooliobut theoretically the most fit individual could not be selected
20:13.15brlcadi'm saying that selection is what you use for the "middle", but that there needs to be some knob for unmodified progression and death as well
20:13.46poolioShould there really be though?
20:13.58brlcadanything that matches the input within a tolerance of 95%, for example, might be a desired configuration
20:14.01poolioFrom what I read it is good to keep the population diverse and include unfit individuals
20:14.11brlcadit is good to include unfit
20:14.28brlcadthe upper in is just a knob (that can be zero, or weighted, etc)
20:14.43poolioSo you're saying, include some top %, cut some bottom %, and perform the selection on the middle %
20:14.44brlcadgenerally, it's just one or two candidates, depending on the population size
20:14.59poolioand essentially remove the middle and bottom, replacing them with the new individuals created from the selection of the middle %?
20:15.40poolioSo keep top N, remove bottom M, and do what I've been doing on the entire population for what's left?
20:15.48brlcadyes
20:15.57brlcadmind you, N and M are exceptionally small
20:16.30poolioAlright, but even with that I feel like I should be getting better results. I know that I should implement that, but I'd like to make sure it can converge first
20:16.42brlcadyou can crossover with one retained to fill a killed spot, but the retained is still retained
20:17.22brlcadyou should be able to converge even without that, but I think that will be eventually be necessary for more complex models
20:17.23pooliohmm, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.
20:17.33poolioyeah I agree
20:17.49brlcadthe bias injects new material into the population to work with and prevents a local minima from keeping you stuck indefinitely
20:17.56pooliowhen you say "but the retained is still retained" you're saying the top N you've selected are retained and kept?
20:18.11brlcadwith simulated annealing, you can increase that M to something much larger if you do get stuck on a bad answer
20:18.27poolioalright
20:18.30brlcadyes, that's what I mean
20:18.38poolioand how does the bias inject new material? I thought it just included more of old?
20:19.23pooliohmm
20:19.33poolioMy reproduction rate was quite high, that's probably part of it
20:19.38brlcadso you have AAA BBB CCC DDD .. AAA is kept, DDD is killed, AAA BBB CCC are potentially crossed
20:20.17poolioOh alright, so include AAA in selection?
20:20.22poolionot just BBB CCC?
20:20.23brlcadand a new EEE can be injected to fill remaining slot
20:20.32brlcadthat's a knob, you should allow it
20:20.52brlcadotherwise it's just dead material
20:21.48pooliok
20:22.48brlcadso you could end up with AAA AAB BBC EEE or  AAA BBC CCB EEE or AAA ABB BBC EEE, etc
20:23.13brlcador even AAA AAB BBC CCB
20:23.24brlcaddepends on your selection rates
20:23.29poolioyeah
20:24.18poolioIt still converges almost immediately with 90% crossover rate
20:24.52brlcadhave it calculate and print out your average population fitness each iteration
20:25.12brlcadas well as the min/max
20:25.17pooliok
20:27.38brlcadsince it very well could fine a "really good" initial guess on just the first iteration, yet continually improve the average fitness after a few hundred iterations to the point that it finds a new best
20:30.04poolioweird. average is pretty much constant, min fluctuates greatly, and max is constant
21:27.18pooliobrlcad: argh. still not getting good results. I might just implement mutation and then try again. I don't see why it's converging so early... maybe I need to try a larger propulation, I mean the problem space is pretty big
22:09.27pooliobrlcad: I'm off. This is really frustrating :\
22:09.41poolioI don't have the patience to develop software...
22:09.59CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h): more tweaks. two separated spheres still don't work...
22:19.17brlcad:)
22:24.29brlcadsoftware development doesn't necessarily require patience, research generally does though
22:30.59brlcadyour project is more the latter, and part why it's a harder problem.  had you picked a path tracer, you'd probably be looking at pretty images by now ;-)
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22:34.09IriX64what does acromania do
22:34.54IriX64i won't try it :)
22:36.05IriX64brlcad is busy in libitcl3.2 so i thought id play while i wait on this update :)
22:37.23IriX64sigh, cygwin is underappreciated you know
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22:42.44IriX64http://rafb.net/p/4ft7tl62.html  <--- hah should get a server op to test this :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070724

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070724

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02:28.36IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Humor.png   <--- some more fun with WiniX(tm)
02:32.18louipcwhat's that Borland C?
02:37.45IriX64yea turboc :)
02:38.12IriX64turboc for dos
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03:17.26IriX64identity crisis louipc
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14:59.19pooliobrlcad: I think the problem has to be in my fitness function, it looks like it's marking the same objects as having the same fitness when they shouldn't
15:03.58pooliobrlcad: hmm, the fitness might actually be right, is there a way to set the bounding box for "rt" ?
15:05.43pooliohmm, that was it. fitness was right, visualizations are wrong
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17:11.25pooliobrlcad: is there a way to just kind of take a snapshot of the wireframes? and from a certain view? waiting for raytracing is taking a while and I don't need the pretty rt'd models
17:39.56poolioargh. I'm pretty stuck, now it's not even convering at all...
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18:26.21yukonbobpoolio: in mged: "ps myoutput.ps"
18:27.37yukonbob(generates a postscript file)
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18:29.59pooliowhere's it saved?
18:30.10pooliooh dur
18:31.07poolioI just get a blakn window?
18:32.16yukonbob?do you have your model loaded -- when I have an object displayed, and "ps myview.ps", I get a postscript file I view w/ gv (ghostview)
18:33.25pooliohmm, lemme try gv
18:33.48poolioah hmm
18:33.52poolioguess it was evince
18:34.46yukonbobpoolio: so is that giving you what you were looking for?
18:35.04IriX64http://rafb.net/p/Xy5csa63.html <--- did an update yesterday, this started happening (non-coerced build)
18:35.20poolioyukonbob: and is there a way to automate this outsie of brl-cad? Do something like this:http://poolio.org/~poolio/mon_3spheres_good.jpg but do it with postrscript?
18:35.30poolioyukonbob: well, it is giving me what I'm looking for I just don't think it has the options I need
18:35.56yukonbobpoolio: ~poolio/mon_3spheres_good.jpg was not found on this server.
18:36.17poolioerr crap
18:36.23pooliosale DNS records still?
18:36.27pooliois poolio.org up?
18:36.49yukonboblooks like it...
18:36.51pooliooops
18:36.52poolioyukonbob: http://poolio.org/~poolio/mon_3sph_good.jpg
18:37.10poolios/sale/stale
18:37.58IriX64why does it collapse to two bars along the left side poolio
18:38.05pooliohuh?
18:38.14poolioclick it and make it bigger
18:38.21poolioit's just an image
18:38.30IriX64||  <--- like that its fine while loading but completes to that
18:39.02poolio...It's because your browser scales it down to fit in the window. if you use firefox click on it and it should restore to it's normal size
18:39.24poolioif you use IE hover over it and there's a button in the lower right that looks like a sunset image tha tyou can click to make it bigger, I think...been a while
18:39.55IriX64that works thanks
18:40.32IriX64conways game of life man ;)
18:40.33yukonbobpoolio: well, you could script the running of the relevant commands then collect the output, convert to eps, and load into nice pdf, for example...
18:41.05poolioI'm just thinking I might have to do that if I can't specify the bounding box for 'rt'
18:41.20poolioyukonbob: so there's a way to montage post script files?
18:41.47poolioalthough the ps file would be a lot smaller
18:42.14yukonbobpoolio: personally, I'd be including them into a docbook or LaTeX document and formatting them in there... ie: scaling and installing in tables, for example.
18:42.32poolioyeah I know nothing about any of that :\
18:42.57yukonbobmight be able to use imagemagick/graphicsmagick to montage ps as well... haven
18:43.04yukonbob*haven't tried.
18:43.21pooliohmm
18:43.26poolioyeah I'm using imagemagick currently
18:43.49poolioyukonbob: I guess I might as well try it :)
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18:45.25yukonbobpoolio: I just did, and it seems to work nicely....
18:45.41pooliooh sweet, I'll try that out, just need to figure out how to call ps externally
18:50.29yukonbobpoolio: mged -f mydb.g 'e mymodel; ae 20 20 10; ps myoutput.ps'
18:51.00pooliowouldn't that be slower than using a backend though?
19:04.01*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
19:04.01*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
19:04.38*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
19:07.44poolioyukonbob: I think PS is just as slow as raytracing the objects...
19:08.01poolioslower actually
19:08.40*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548745CF.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:09.55yukonbobpoolio: what's the process you use to generate the iterations of sphere?
19:09.58yukonbob*spheres
19:12.02pooliohmm?
19:12.07pooliogenetic algorithms?
19:12.25poolioI don't want the entire PS view, I just need the wireframe
19:15.00poolioyukonbob: alright, I think I'll stick to my current methods, thanks though
19:42.53CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c beset.h fitness.h): minor tweaks. still struggling on two spheres. i have my doubts as to whether the whole project will work...
19:52.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca)
20:15.49IriX64did a cvs update librt seems all right now at least here
21:47.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca)
21:48.20IriX64crazy man, my system is doing three compiles all at once, hilarious :)
21:49.13IriX64gcc you're a thing of beauty :)
21:49.47*** join/#brlcad cad50 (n=54906d20@bz.bzflag.bz)
21:49.55IriX64hi cad50
21:53.55dtidrowdrive-by....
21:54.05IriX64missed :)
21:57.08*** join/#brlcad bch (n=bch@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
21:59.17yukonbob.
22:04.55brlcad..
22:06.08dtidrow...
22:08.00dtidrowwell, time to head home - later all...
22:08.06IriX64l8r
22:08.24brlcadgo ahead and break the pattern :P
22:08.50IriX64thats a sequencial array of points made is it not?
22:23.49yukonbob?did you see poolio's question re: faster way to "render" his model views
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070725

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070725

00:34.42*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
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02:38.55IriX64fprot
02:38.59IriX64whup
02:46.39poolioqwesd?
03:15.15IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad-7.8.4-havoc.jpg
03:20.47pooliopurty.
03:29.51IriX64swet too
03:29.56IriX64*sweet
03:30.18IriX64shower time, i'll be back
04:23.17IriX64now if i could get 7.10.1 to do that :)
04:25.05*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871464.dsl.bell.ca)
04:56.28IriX64anybody awake? I have a hypothetical question
04:58.23IriX64called redhat trying to get a licence to spread cygwin dll's around, they say no licence needed, what would be involved if i wanted to give selected friends a cygwin build of brlcad, either 7.8.4 or 7.10
05:36.04brlcadwhat does redhat have to do with cygwin?
05:57.23IriX64cygwin page says contact redhat for licence
05:57.30IriX64so i did
05:59.06brlcadah
05:59.18brlcaddidn't know they had much to do with each other
05:59.26IriX64me either
06:03.17yukonbobredhat owns cygwin, iirc
06:04.00IriX64wasn't sure but like a good boy i called
06:04.10IriX64and he said no licence required
06:10.18IriX64i just get this system back up and i get the itch to try enterprise sigh
06:11.37yukonbobwhat would be required is that *you* provide access to source code, as per the gpl. apparently it's not enough to say "go get the code from the Internet".
06:11.48yukonbob^-- IriX64
06:12.14IriX64got it but ill just give it to brlcad and let him support it :P
06:12.52yukonbobI'm sure he'll be happy to have something to use that free time he's been looking to fill...
06:13.01IriX64heh
06:13.22IriX647.8.4 is discontinued is it not?
06:15.26IriX64my system is special though...
06:15.52IriX64i visited www.mgm.com from the recycle bin window
06:17.10IriX64my whole system is kinda tweaked here and there
06:19.23yukonbobIriX64: what do you mean "discontinued"
06:19.41IriX64no longer being developed or is it?
06:21.05yukonbobconsidering 7.10.x is based on tcl/tk 8.5, and tcl/tk 8.5 is still in development, I hope that 7.8.4 is still on people's radar... Maybe not for feature enhancements, but at least for bug fixing...
06:23.35IriX64noted, but my point is its not on cvs anymore, I was hoping the latest would still be avilable or at least an up to date tarball issued
06:24.00yukonbobah... no idea...
06:27.24IriX64coffee break :)
06:46.06IriX64btw brlcad, your tree awaits you ;)
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06:56.56IriX64_bjorkBSD i didn't see you come in, greets
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07:28.03IriX64hey
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14:09.31*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
15:26.01pooliobrlcad: I'm going to adjust the fitness to be based off of similarity not off difference, maybe that will help out
15:30.14brlcadhm, okay
15:32.30pooliowell I currently have the depth of the boundign box, and I'm saying like 1-diff/depth
15:32.39poolioso I'm switching to just same/depth
15:34.05poolioso basically fitness will be the intersection of the voxel data and the CSG tree divided by the union of the two
16:09.29brlcadpoolio: hmm, I'm not sure you should account for CSG tree depth just yet, or if you do, it should simply be a fixed sliver of the fitness value
16:10.03pooliobrlcad: alright
16:10.15pooliobrlcad: I really neecd to somehow though, when I ran it without tree depth I got >10MB .g files
16:10.25poolioand it would take forever to run
16:10.34pooliotrees has upwards of 100 leaves
16:11.02brlcadlike N % of fitness where #nodes for a given candidate divided by the biggest candidate
16:11.49brlcadyou can fix it at something known to be smaller for starters, maybe make it a command line param for how many nodes to have max
16:12.07brlcadI can generally look at a model and estimate about how many primitives it'll take to represent it
16:12.44poolioalright
16:12.59brlcadthat can reduce some complexity for now too
16:13.11poolioso say 75% of fitness is it compared to the model, and the other 25 is #nodes/max_nodes ?
16:13.28brlcadsince for your inputs for there are just a handful of objects, and a very specific optimal value, might as well feed it that value and see if it can even find it
16:13.28poolioYeah that'd be great. I think it'd really struggle not knowing a general proximity for # of nodes
16:14.23brlcadyou can do that, or just fix it at the user-supplied value
16:14.44brlcadthat way, the fitness can just be %matching / total space
16:15.50brlcadonce that is working, then you could add in something that tries to automatically figure out the number of primtivies and takes tree sizes into account, but that really sounds like a future step
16:16.16poolioyeah
16:16.28poolioI really wish I could get the damn thing working with this fairly trivial case
16:16.37pooliothen I could move on to all these features that I'd really like to see implemented
16:18.23pooliobrlcad: wait, but %matching/total_space doesnt take into account the user-supplied node value
16:18.25brlcadsounds like it's perhaps time for me to dive into the code in more detail for a bit
16:18.39brlcadhm?
16:18.51poolioYou said "|12:16| <@    brlcad> that way, the fitness can just be %matching / total space"
16:19.24brlcadi'm saying that for starters, if the user ran ./beset -n 10, it'd just create models that had 10 primitives
16:19.25poolioI think a lot of the problem is making sure I have a good initial population and coming up with a good fitness function
16:19.36pooliobrlcad: oh alright
16:19.58pooliobut with crossover % set so high, and crossover randomly choosing any node, it's not likely to maintain that node count
16:20.08brlcadthe fitness should be based on how much of the model correctly matches+misses / total space .. basically % correct
16:20.11pooliowhich could be part of the problem, and it might be worth implementing that selection strategy you talked about earlier
16:20.48pooliobrlcad: yes, I was just thinking include tree depth
16:20.58brlcadah, crossover would have to only swap nodes of equal depth, yes
16:21.11pooliosay have fitness be %correct - abs(user-specified - node_count)
16:21.17brlcads/depth/node count/
16:21.49pooliobrlcad: Is that how crossover should work? what I've read said it's just two random nodes
16:21.59pooliobut that does make sense
16:22.03poolioactually that makes a lot of sense
16:22.12brlcadfor the fitness equation to work, that's what it'd have to be
16:22.21pooliowell the logic seems like it should be that
16:22.21brlcadotherwise you need a different fitness function
16:22.31brlcadand that's the whole point, so you can have a simple fitness function
16:22.38poolioalthough with that it's always going to keep the same node count, and the population will be very static
16:22.58poolioit'd mean your initial population would have to include atleast one individual with the number of nodes that will be in the model
16:23.34poolioif you cross at different node counts, I see the error... You could replace a tree with say 10 nodes, with just one leaf
16:23.53poolioso two highly fit individuals have the same chance of creating an awful individual as they do a good one
16:23.56pooliohrmph
16:24.22brlcadand i don't think "%correct - abs(user-specified - node_count)" is the next step .. should try to simplify so it's just %correct for now
16:25.22poolioalright
16:25.34poolioYes, that's a good plan
16:25.45pooliothat's what you meant by reducing dimensionality earlier
16:25.51brlcadyes
16:26.04poolioI should listen better
16:26.34poolioalright so I'll try to fix it up and fix fitness to be %correct
16:27.07brlcadi think you sort of jumped right into a 30-valued polynomial that you're trying to solve for :)
16:27.19pooliobasically
16:27.27poolioI was hoping for some GA voodoo magic
16:27.32poolioit did kind of work
16:27.36pooliobut I guess that was moreso luck
16:27.45``Erikbleh
16:27.51brlcadwhich I think is solvable, but getting that fitness right on the first shot is exceptionally hard
16:27.53poolioalloo ``Erik
16:28.10``Erik'sup? is your evolution code evolving nicely?
16:28.25poolioI should write a GA to evolve itself to be a GA
16:28.25gut_feeling``Erik: how is your openbsd emulation?
16:28.33poolios/itself/my code
16:28.42poolio``Erik: no, it's not.
16:28.52``Erikuntouched, karel, keeps sig12'ing during boot :(
16:29.09``ErikI may repurpose a down machine here soon :/
16:30.26pooliobrlcad: should I search a tree for all nodes of some given depth or can I just randomly pick nodes until they fit together
16:30.27gut_feeling>/win 11
16:30.32poolioI guess the former is much better
16:31.23``Eriksf discontinued their compile farm, right?
16:35.21pooliobrlcad: so it looks like i need to pick a certain node on the first tree, count how many child nodes it has, search the second tree for nodes with the same # of children. randomly pick one of those nodes in the second tree and crossover, or repick a node in the first of a different depth
16:36.14poolio|12:31| <     poolio> I guess the former is much better
16:36.15poolio|12:32| � gut_feeling <> changes nick to feral_feeling
16:36.18poolioeeek
16:36.19pooliosorry
16:40.43``Erikheh
16:40.57``Erikbrlcad, would you mind culling some naughty rogue processes on your desktop?
16:41.11``Erikthey're beating up my po' server
16:48.39brlcadpoolio: yeah, something like that
16:49.02brlcad``Erik: which?
16:49.15``Erikum, firefox finds,  you have 3 of them punishing nfs
16:49.31``Erikand a slew of local log rotate scripts grinding
16:49.32brlcader, firefox isn't even running
16:49.39``Erik... scripts looking for firefox
16:49.50``Erikthat are fucktarded and wander into nfs land
16:49.59brlcadooh, that's someone else's doing
16:50.03``Erikyeah
16:50.09brlcadyeah, kill em
16:50.19``Erikbut it's your box, so I didn't wanna go shotgunning without at least talkin' to ya
16:50.26brlcadyeah thx
16:51.16``Erikbahhhh, I'm not in wheel
17:01.44brlcadi killed them
17:01.44``Erikthanks
17:01.45pooliobrlcad: murderer!
17:02.38*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593523.dsl.bell.ca)
17:04.08IriX64http://rafb.net/p/oMXfGH20.html <--- are you interested in this one?
17:13.26IriX64btw libXft *needs to be used.
17:15.59IriX64doesn't solve my ogl problems though, but i'll keep looking
17:18.36IriX64hey did anybody try my young friends hex.c?
17:24.27IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8RMmsj90.html <--- deja-vu, this ones in remrt
17:25.25pooliobrlcad: is using !!variable a bad practice?
17:34.23``Erikheh, not the most readable :)
17:35.31IriX64:)
17:37.03IriX64they both seem quite happy linking against libbu with thier bu_bomb routines commented out
17:45.56IriX64har asc2g is running
17:49.38poolioisn't asc2g deprecated anyway?
17:49.50IriX64its part of the compile
17:49.56IriX64last part
17:50.21IriX64to give you example geometry databases to play with
17:52.56IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/hex.c    <-- threaded bolt maker
17:55.01IriX64my sons friend did that, they compete, I think Jamie won that round :)
17:58.33``ErikO.o
17:58.58``Erikwhy would asc2g be deprecated? it converts between the db's ascii and binary forms...
18:00.42``Erikheh, neat
18:01.13``Eriksign issues out the wazoo during compile
18:01.45``Eriksprintf() is generally considered poor form, can lead to overruns... snprintf is generally preferred
18:02.12poolionot deprecated, but no longer needed or something. like in the comments it said that it was no longer needed to move over databases or something. oh well.
18:03.20IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/brlcad-7.10.1  your code running :)
18:03.50IriX64roses need watering ill be back in a bit :)
18:14.24CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/asc2g.c: removed unnecessary blank lines
18:19.43IriX64same url /framebuffer.jpg
18:21.50*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
18:31.07IriX64same url /guimode.jpg    and now i'm taking a break, afk for a bit
18:54.41*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726476.dsl.bell.ca)
19:51.20CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to john p. williams for adding support for vrml2 to g-vrml
19:52.42CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: durfee's middle name was edward
19:54.55CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: special thanks to bob strausser for his contributions to patch-g in '93
19:56.20CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: consistency with SURVICE case
19:57.49``Erikwas or is? O.o
19:57.53CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (49 files in 49 dirs): de-recurse this bit of the build tree
20:03.30CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: omg, I apparently missed nirt's infamous author. credit natalie eberius for her work on nirt which according to cvs was circa 1990.
20:06.00*** join/#brlcad ak__ (n=ak@ll-81-222-164-251.awanti.ru)
20:16.05CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: credit Douglas P. Kingston III for his work really early on (circa '81) on libfb paged io, as well as work on dbcp, loop, op-bw, and more. don't know his exact affiliation yet
20:19.02MaloeranAdding credits for work performed 26 years ago? That's... interesting :)
20:21.16``Erikcode archeology, heh
20:23.19``Erikapparently, he was on acst t some point
20:23.23``Erikhttp://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/multimedia/misc/tcp_ip/8702.mm.www/0175.html
20:24.11``Erik(assuming that's the same Douglas P. Kingston III)
20:26.04MaloeranIII is unusual as a family name
20:26.22``Erikum, it's not, kingston is... he's the third...
20:27.03MaloeranI have never seen such a family name. I heard about the 2.0 suffix to a child's name though
20:55.01*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177680011.dsl.bell.ca)
21:01.03brlcadMaloeran: seriously, you haven't?
21:01.59brlcadI mean, Pope John Paul II .. King Henry IV .. Queen Elizabeth II ...
21:03.39brlcadthere are famous names through the centuries like that, aside from just general use
21:05.49IriX64http://rafb.net/p/SrnFp444.html <--- this is with opengl enabled
21:07.16``Erik<-- hoping that mal is being facetious
21:08.51IriX64glx define didn't get set
21:09.09``ErikglX is for X, yours should use wgl
21:09.36IriX64err if i have glx it should find it, 7.8.4 did
21:11.10IriX64sorry i intruded on your conversation
21:12.36MaloeranSure brlcad, but these are more titles than names, I didn't expect to see that outside archaic institutions
21:12.37*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-085-114.pools.arcor-ip.net)
21:13.14IriX64elite01: count what you have lost and lose no more :)
21:13.32elite01hehe :)
21:13.40IriX64:)
21:13.50elite01nah, i don't quit to show-off my ubercool quit messages
21:14.08IriX64i know that but i couldn't resist
21:14.11elite01i dunno xchat just somehow went away - i must've slipped a row or so on this crappy laptop keyboard
21:14.44IriX64tried building xchat from source, several issues i have to look at..... later
21:15.09elite01no idea why one would want to build it from source
21:15.22IriX64for the heck of it :)
21:15.26elite01i see :)
21:15.48IriX64i like bitchx too
21:16.20elite01i used it once to ask why my x server wouldn't start :D
21:17.24IriX64you like gui's then, i mix command line with gui
21:17.30elite01otherwise, i'm quite loyal to xchat
21:17.41IriX64i hop around
21:18.48elite01hmm yes i'm more or less a gui guy
21:19.12elite01never bothered to learn using vi or emacs or something like that
21:19.23elite01i rather use gedit or even something like netbeans
21:19.49IriX64i use tedit and e ;)
21:20.19IriX64err epm
21:20.34elite01don't know them
21:20.44IriX64os/2 stuff
21:20.48elite01oh
21:20.53elite01i master most of nano :)
21:21.14IriX64tried nano quite good but jove is good too
21:21.41IriX64jove runs on my system :)
21:21.58elite01amazing :)
21:22.06IriX64:)
21:48.28*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
22:06.16IriX64elite01: http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/jove.jpg
22:07.03elite01looks... plain
22:07.16IriX64is it supposed to be fancy
22:10.05elite01http://bayimg.com/EAEdFaabj that's fancy :)
22:11.10IriX64sure as heck is :)
22:11.24IriX64how do you keep track of all the buttons :)
22:12.16elite01hehe
22:14.26elite01just look at http://bayimg.com/eaEDkAABJ
22:14.33elite01*that*'s buttons :P
22:14.47CIA-29libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r208 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCEvents.h src/irClientEvents.cpp):
22:14.47CIA-29libirc: add an event at the end of the connection cycle ( end of MOTD )
22:14.47CIA-29libirc:  eIRCConnectedEvent
22:14.47CIA-29libirc: so that clients know when they can start joining channels and sending
22:14.47CIA-29libirc: messages and stuff.
22:15.55IriX64a coding editor? (can't make out the text)
22:16.17elite01click the image
22:16.49elite01the refactoring stuff is amazing
22:18.12IriX64you're a java developer?
22:18.40elite01from time to... time
22:18.56IriX64beans is your effort? if so kudos
22:19.18IriX64gui programmer sweet
22:19.44elite01no, i didn't collaborate to netbeans
22:20.28IriX64high class stuff, i admit i'm outclassed here :)
22:21.06elite01nah, it just looks ugly :)
22:22.26CIA-29libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r209 10/trunk/libirc/ (7 files in 4 dirs): it's IRCTextUtils not TextUtils. set it straight everywheres
22:23.34IriX64elite01: same url turboc.jpg, thats more my speed :)
22:23.35elite01still, i believe netbeans is one of the best ides out there - a pleasure to use
22:24.08IriX64ive never tried it, never heard of it till you brought it up, says something about me
22:24.27elite01at least you don't need a gig of ram to run it
22:24.34IriX64heh
22:26.09IriX64did you think jove is mine?
22:26.26IriX64it's part of brlcad
22:26.39elite01hmm didn't think of it being yours or not
22:26.41elite01it is?
22:26.45IriX64yes
22:27.10elite01oh, nice
22:27.32IriX64the nice part is the rest of brlcad
22:27.50elite01hehe
22:27.57IriX64:)
22:28.07elite01i don't master brlcad yet
22:28.36IriX64me either, it's tough
22:28.36IriX64but i'm told well worth the effort
22:28.36CIA-29libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r210 10/trunk/libirc/include/TCPConnection.h: put the candle back
22:28.47IriX64have you seen the stryker shot
22:29.02elite01hmm dunno
22:29.04IriX64http://brlcad.org  images and screenshots
22:29.08elite01i saw some helicopter
22:29.18IriX64no not the copter
22:29.27elite01that one? of course :)
22:29.35elite01it sure is an eyecatcher
22:30.08IriX64you miss the point that vehiclee was build from the brlcad work
22:30.22elite01the most... "ugly" programs are often the best :)
22:30.29IriX64:)
22:30.40elite01hm? what do you mean by that?
22:31.03IriX64some consider a program ugly some find it quite nice
22:31.33elite01well, it's how they look, how comfortable it is to use and how quickly experienced people get stuff done
22:32.02IriX64true but there's always a learning curve, sometimes steep
22:32.24elite01yes
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22:34.03brlcadMaloeran: that's actually part of their name, not just a title ...
22:34.14*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
22:34.14brlcadthat's a tradition that goes *way* back ..
22:34.40brlcadif you give your kid the same name as their parent, they become a II, or a III
22:34.42brlcadetc
22:35.09dtidrow_workwell, II usually equals Jr.
22:35.35IriX64brlcad: defineing that glx define allowed it to build completely
22:35.52brlcadyeah
22:38.48``Eriknapoleon XIV
22:54.49CIA-29libirc: 03dtremenak * r211 10/trunk/libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: map.erase() doesn't return anything on gcc
23:08.10louipcjove is actually a UofT app :P
23:11.00CIA-29libirc: 03l4m3rthanyou * r212 10/trunk/libirc/src/TCPConnection.cpp: Woo, couple more itr fixes
23:12.14CIA-29libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r213 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: libIRC has a build system now, and is not "all ugly" so take that out of the todo
23:12.50``ErikO.o
23:13.01``EriklibIRC rises from the grave?
23:43.51brlcadrumors of it's demise are greatly exaggerated
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23:47.58dtidrow"Can't load IA 32-bit .so on a IA 32-bit platform" - totally whacked Java JNI error
23:48.21dtidrowtotally useless, and totally misleading
23:50.07dtidrowI had to downgrade the Java version to 1.5.0_07 to find the real problem: "undefined symbol: _ZN16GLRefreshVisitor5applyERN3osg7TextureE"
23:50.36dtidrowinsane....
23:51.20dtidrowat least I can go home now that I've fixed the _real_ problem
23:53.02brlcadfun fun
23:53.39brlcadhey, dtidrow .. here's a question for you.. is there a way to jni load a library that has (unused) unresolved symbols?
23:54.08brlcadstuff that ld has no trouble whatsoever using, you can dlopen just fine, but jni loader chokes
23:54.33brlcadusually another lib that the library uses
23:55.04dtidrownot sure, though I think there are some commandline arguments you can use to direct the jvm to the right libs
23:55.16dtidrowas well as LD_LIBRARY_PATH, of coures
23:56.06brlcadyeah, it ignores the ld_lib_path
23:56.30dtidrowit shouldn't, afaik
23:56.33brlcador at least doesn't know how/where to find the lib to resolve it
23:56.52brlcad(even though the .so does say how/where)
23:57.08brlcadotherwise even dlopen would die on some symbols
23:57.56dtidrowyeah - if dlopen works, the jvm should have no problem either
23:58.27brlcadyeah, that's what's been a pita
23:58.50brlcaddlopen is fine
23:59.10brlcadI've had to make fully resolved libraries (i.e. mega libraries!) that has the dependencies all included
23:59.11dtidrowafaik, the "System.loadLibrary( lib );" is just a wrapper around dlopen
23:59.24brlcadeven stupid things like tcl/tk (which makes for a huge .so)
23:59.47dtidrowwhat was the lib name that you passed in to System.loadLibrary()?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070726

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070726

00:00.43dtidrowhaven't had a problem with that here, and the lib we load sucks in a lot of .so's
00:02.20dtidrowyou're not trying to pass in the full name of the lib, are you?
00:03.20dtidrowiiuc, System.loadLibrary() expands the name given to it, eg. 'vis' expands to libvis.so
00:03.55dtidrowat least on Linux - all bets are off on OSX  ;-)
00:03.58brlcadI'll dig to make sure, but I'm pretty sure it's just the short name
00:04.25dtidrowOSX has some weird packaging schemes
00:04.31brlcadlike I said, it works just fine if the .so is resolved, it's only when it's not
00:05.02dtidrowresolved meaning it can find it in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
00:05.32brlcadno, meaning that it doesn't have to -- all symbols in the .so are resolved (none undefined if you do an nm)
00:05.40dtidrowah
00:05.47dtidrowodd
00:07.00brlcadyeah, it's just: System.loadLibrary ("rtserver");
00:07.09brlcadwe have a librtserver in brl-cad
00:07.14brlcadpretty straightforward
00:07.35dtidrowlibrtserver.so?
00:07.49brlcadon non-mac, yes :)
00:08.15dtidrowit works on non-macs?
00:08.23dtidrowor n ot at all?
00:08.29brlcadiirc, no -- not at all
00:09.36dtidrowgotta be an libpath issue, then - any chance that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was getting reset/changed before java ran?
00:09.53dtidrowlike in a script, perhaps?
00:10.02dtidrowjsut brainstorming here...
00:10.36brlcadthe ld path is set, it's set to a mass of paths that are otherwise required for other javanessy things it needs (and one of the paths includes the dir that has the .so's in question)
00:11.07brlcadotherwise even System.loadLibrary ("rtserver"); wouldn't work on the fully resolved library
00:11.13dtidrowvery odd, then - it _ought_ to work
00:11.44dtidrowand 'ldd' finds all the deps?
00:12.14brlcadyeah, it does
00:12.50dtidrowmakes no sense at all then
00:15.11dtidrowanyway, gotta head home - 'nite all...
01:14.34CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (407 files in 39 dirs): remove ephemeral data like phone numbers and addresses, including the misleading 'source' statements on code that is continually evolving and receiving contributions from many many sources
02:08.35*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1177680011.dsl.bell.ca)
02:09.39IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/ogl.jpg   <---- got my ogl issues sorted out :)
02:15.16brlcadcan you quantify exactly what you needed to do?
02:16.04IriX64for some reason my glx header wasn't being detected im still trying to get configure to find it
02:17.13IriX64i don't speak configure very well :(
02:18.17IriX64didint have to touch the code if thats what you're after
02:18.43brlcadi didn't think you would have had to
02:18.50IriX64aren't build issues fun sigh
02:37.45Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/board.png <-- with my 30 degree conical
02:38.41louipchm?
02:39.10IriX64cant find page
02:39.34brlcadhttp://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/07/make_your_own_printed_cir_1.html
02:39.59brlcadwith a $10 flat iron ;)
02:40.13IriX64found it :)
02:41.43IriX64i used to do things like that then programming lured me :)
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03:06.48Twingybrlcad, I use a $20 griddle
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03:25.19IriX64http://sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Singular.jpg
03:25.39louipc404
03:25.46yukonbobThe requested URL /mario.dulisse2/Singular.jpg was not found on this server.
03:25.47yukonbobAdditionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
03:25.54yukonbobheh
03:26.48Twingybrlcad, you can't do 10 mil traces with ferric chloride either
03:26.48IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/Singular.jpg (blush)
03:27.02TwingyI have a quart of it left from projects from years ago
05:28.38*** part/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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13:33.09``Erik*yawn*
13:33.51pooliowow. I actually just yawned when I read that
13:35.46``Erikdork :)
14:36.44CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.defs: pass make flags in depends targets
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17:10.11pooliogrargh.
17:12.04MinuteElectron?
17:15.24pooliointernet went down
17:15.34poolioand i really needed to figure out what i broke in my local cvs
17:22.56``Erikwhy'd you break the intarweb?
17:23.35pooliomy modem went down
17:23.38poolioand comcast doesn't respond to me
17:23.58pooliobecause there are only 3 houses in our neighborhood, so if internet goes downt hey don't give a shit
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17:26.43``Eriksucky
17:28.59poolioluckily it came back on
17:29.02poolioi was gonna go to an internet cafe
17:29.11pooliowell, a cafe with wifi internet
17:32.23poolioso I tried to have one generic tree traversal function with lots of switch statements in it, but I feel like that may have been a bad decision...getting segfaults and debuggin it is a pain
17:32.39poolioand the code's probably clearer if I just seperate out the routines
17:33.26``Erikprobably
17:33.40``ErikI assume you have gdb style stabs compiled in and are using the debugger? :)
17:33.50pooliono
17:33.55``Erik...
17:33.58poolioI nver learned the right way to debug
17:34.04pooliowell gdb picks up the source code
17:34.06``Erikmight be a good time?
17:34.08poolioand tells me where it is
17:34.31poolioI just fail at figuring out why certain things are happening. Lik ewhere these null pointers keep popping up from
17:34.36``Erik'backtrace' and 'print' are good commands
17:34.57``Erikand you can navigate the frames, too
17:35.01poolioyeah I know the basics, I should really take the time to learn more though, it'd help quite a bit
17:36.16``Erik'xxgdb' and 'ddd' provide gui frontends, might be easier than figuring out the syntax
17:36.33pooliomaybe, although I've never been a big fan of GUIs
17:36.42``Erik*shrug* me either :)
17:37.07``Erikum, efence, dmalloc, ccmalloc, valgrind, ...
17:38.02poolioyeah valgrind doesnt play too nicely with multithreaded stuff though
17:39.20``Erikchoke it back to 1 thread? (or does it go heisenbug when you do that?)
17:39.28poolioheh no
17:39.29poolioI could do that
18:01.06``Erikah HAAAAAAA
18:01.40``Erikhe disabled the tclcad bezier canvas
18:17.57*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871547.dsl.bell.ca)
18:18.28LinuxMafiai can not run mged
18:18.59LinuxMafiait complains about itcltk/itk
18:19.30IriX64did you build it yourself or are you using binaries?
18:19.59LinuxMafiai emerged it i used gentoo
18:20.28IriX64any compile time errors or link errors
18:20.33IriX64or warnings
18:20.54LinuxMafiaCan't find a usable itk.tcl in the following directories:
18:21.06IriX64the question was ...
18:21.15LinuxMafiano
18:21.30LinuxMafiait would not installed otherwise
18:21.34IriX64did you add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path?
18:21.46LinuxMafiano
18:21.50IriX64try
18:22.05IriX64as make install tells you at end of run
18:23.41LinuxMafiai did
18:23.46LinuxMafialet me uptdate
18:23.51IriX64can also try setting the environment variable to point to itk lib (forget the name at the moment though, anybody)
18:25.04LinuxMafiahum
18:25.34LinuxMafia<PROTECTED>
18:25.58IriX64theres an envronment variable you can set to pint to that
18:26.04IriX64point too
18:26.18LinuxMafiaso i put this
18:26.53LinuxMafiaexport  ITK_LIBRARY=/usr/lib64/itk3.3/
18:27.11IriX64and
18:27.33IriX64btw what version we talking about here?
18:28.26LinuxMafia3.3-r1
18:28.38IriX64of brlcad
18:28.46LinuxMafia7.10
18:29.23LinuxMafiawow
18:29.27LinuxMafiait worked now
18:29.30LinuxMafiai think i need
18:29.32IriX64heh good
18:29.32LinuxMafiaalso
18:29.44LinuxMafiado the same for TCL
18:32.17LinuxMafiathanks alot IriX64
18:33.24IriX64welcome
18:34.54IriX64mc
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20:47.23IriX64system issues, such fun... bleah
20:52.26IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/overlap  <--- on the bright side your overlap tool works
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21:30.05MaloeranWoah, 1USD = 1.038CAD now. It's peculiar to lose 15% of one's income in an year due to the change rate
21:39.03pooliowell there isn't too much inflation internally so it's not that big of a deal
21:39.06poolioas long as you remain in the US
21:42.32MaloeranI'm not in the US! :) I'm in Canada and get paid in USDs
21:44.22poolioeek
21:44.23pooliothat sucks :)
21:50.01pooliobrlcad: is there a way to clip the depth of a raytrace? like limit the z-axis to some defined max?
21:53.02pooliobrlcad: I remember in the past you told me not to modify the rt_i, (when it was clamping the bounding box) but if I need to shoot the same grid for each shape, won't I have to modify the variables inside of the application?
21:53.16*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
21:53.48poolioit looks like I missed that and that could have been why it wasn't working well. the fitness seems pretty arbitrary
21:55.18pooliowell actually it was fine before, but that was because they were normalized to the z-depth, so scale was invariant along the z-axis, but I changed it assuming z-depth would be constant and that's where I ran into some problems. So I'm wondering if there's a way to clamp that value basically?
21:57.09poolioalthough it does eliminate a dimension at the cost of having a distorted object
22:16.59brlcadpoolio: there is a_ray_length that will specify at what length the ray should terminate
22:17.04brlcadin the rti
22:17.05pooliobrlcad: alright thanks
22:17.08poolioI actually went back to scaling
22:17.11poolioresults seem slightly better
22:17.17poolioI now have the fixed-depth crossover working
22:17.17brlcadsimilar to a_onehit
22:17.26poolioyeah alright, thanks
22:17.31pooliothe issue those is if it's offset, I'm screwed
22:17.42poolioOh wait nevermind..I control where the ray is shot from
22:17.44pooliothanks :)
22:18.54brlcadhow do you figure "results seem slightly better" ...
22:19.23brlcadit simply introduces more variability, so it won't necessarily get stuck on a bad answer .. that doesn't mean it's better though
22:19.51poolioslightly better with the crossover that makes sense (for now)
22:20.03poolioand something is up with fitness, give me a minute and Ill have some data to show you
22:20.14brlcadit shouldn't have anything to do with crossover
22:20.23pooliothe results shouldn't?
22:21.13brlcadusing a scaled size in your fitness function shouldn't have anything to do with crossover
22:21.25brlcadso yeah, the results shouldn't
22:21.36poolioCorrect, yes.
22:21.40brlcadif they do, I'd think something else is suspect
22:21.51poolioThe issue was that I had undid the scaling, taken the final difference, and divided that by the # of rays
22:22.02pooliothe issue was that the rays fired at different lengths so I was getting odd answers
22:22.31brlcadyes, that's a problem confined to the fitness function :)
22:22.56brlcadscaling might make the math work out easier, but I don't think it's right
22:23.18pooliowell, I was moving the scaling out, because I was scaling each bit
22:23.20poolioso I had like
22:23.35poolio<PROTECTED>
22:23.51poolioso i was moving it so I stored the non-scaled rays, and then when I had calculated the comparison, then dividing that
22:23.53brlcadtake the union of both bounding boxes, that's your absolute length, then compare % matching
22:24.11poolioI could do that too
22:27.01poolioalright I'm doing a larger run and then I'll show you the results. Hopefully it will be better :P
22:30.26pooliobrlcad: yeah something is wrong here. fitness is ... decreasing
22:35.45brlcadhehe
22:37.07pooliowhat a fugly graph
22:38.31pooliobrlcad: http://poolio.org/index.php?q=node/8
22:40.19pooliobrlcad: although wait, something has to be wrong with the fitness function. Look at the best individuals...they're different ...
22:40.47poolioOh that was the other thing, can I raytrace those objects using 'rt' with a specified bounding box instead of an auto-generated one?
22:44.16brlcadwhat are the three lines in the graph?
22:44.33pooliowrost/average/best individuals for each generation
22:44.38poolioread the description :P
22:45.29brlcadyeah ... that's not at all what it should look like :)
22:45.35poolioyeah I know
22:45.40poolioI'm guessing my fitness function is broken
22:45.47pooliojuding from the output of the visual and the output of the graph
22:46.18poolioIt was the first thing I did and I trusted it was right but maybe not
22:47.04pooliothe questionable code resides in compare_hit() in fitness.c
22:47.12brlcadyou can almost ignore the visual for the time being .. average and best won't likely get that close that fast
22:47.50brlcadalso, did you implement the "bring best N forward" yet?
22:47.56pooliono
22:47.59brlcadif so, that 70% shouldn't have disappeartd
22:48.00poolioI can whip that up in a minute though
22:48.01brlcadahh, k
22:48.30brlcadi think you're right, though -- fitness function seems wrong
22:48.51brlcador some twisted crossover bug is killing off your population
22:49.01poolioI have a family dinner to get to but I'll be back around 9. I'm guessing the isuse has to do with the compare_hit routine I've been trusting
22:49.16poolioI might take that out and run some test cases to make sure it's working right
22:50.00brlcadhave a good dinner ;)
22:50.17pooliothanks for the help, hopefully I'll have something good to show you soon
22:52.06poolio:\
22:52.11brlcad:)
22:52.20brlcadyou're not far off
22:52.27poolioin the timeline I am :)
22:52.31brlcadonce it starts working, I think it'll be a lot more encouraging ;)
22:52.42brlcadyeah, timeline is the only crunch
22:52.51poolioI _need_ something working
22:53.05poolioNot just for you to show, but also to know I didn't waste away my summer on a broken hunk of code
22:53.16brlcadlikewise
22:53.48pooliowow. pretty embarassing how little code there is too
22:53.49brlcadbeing able to demo your program to dozens of people you've never met ...
22:53.50poolio<2k
22:53.54brlcadthat control lots of money :)
22:54.10poolioeven if it only works on simple test cases?
22:54.15brlcadyes
22:54.27brlcadthe technical aspects are pretty deep
22:54.48pooliobut the code and implementation isn't that difficult
22:54.49brlcadprobably a little more deep that you know yet, which is part why it's been a lil tricky to implement aside from the coding issues
22:54.56poolioIf you had 5 days to spare you could have done it by now
22:55.08brlcadi don't have 5 days to spare :)
22:55.14brlcadcontrary to the time I spend on IRC
22:55.32pooliojust don't sleep. you'll do fine.
22:55.56poolioyour time is also much more valuable
22:56.10pooliobut seriously, if you took the time you've spent helping me out / trying to get me the job, it could've been done by now
22:56.22poolio(i'm just slightly pessimistic :))
22:58.01brlcadgetting good people is often way more important than getting the work done
22:58.19brlcadif the work was the #1 priority in your case, you wouldn't be working on this pariticular project
22:58.35brlcadit would have been one of the other tasks .. or worse ;)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070727

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070727

00:17.15*** join/#brlcad ibot_ (i=ibot@rikers.org)
00:17.15*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
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02:03.40pooliobrlcad: Aha!
02:04.16pooliobrlcad: when the point the ray is being shot from is inside the model, it includes the point outside the bounding box
02:04.26poolioI'm guessying you knew that though
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04:31.09brlcadyes, the starting segment can be behind your starting hit point if you're inside something
04:31.24brlcadapplications have to manually trim or back out accordingly
04:31.51brlcadand yes, quite intentional behavior :)
04:47.20pooliobrlcad: so would it be acceptable to just truncate the negative inhit distance?
04:49.21brlcadI'm not sure I understand why you'd ever be shooting from inside the geometry
04:50.02brlcadotherwise, you sort of need that, gets to what I mentioned earlier about having your fitness use the union of their two bounding boxes
04:50.42brlcadthat's a case where your sample bounding box is bigger than your input's so okay for that case I could see you might be inside, but that's where the union of the box becomes important for the fitness
04:51.33pooliowell the issue is I have a fixed bounding box to make crossover work
04:52.24poolioAnd I'm shooting from inside the geometry because I have a fixed bounding box
04:54.24poolioan alternative would just be to say crop the bounding box if it was greater than the size of the source's bounding box
04:54.45poolioand grow other bounding boxes if they are too small
04:55.08poolioActually I wouldn't need to do that
04:55.59poolioJust remember the grid spacing from the source, and a corner of the bounding box from the current object
04:57.41poolioCrap, but the issue with doing the ratio of say a ray's depth to its bounding box is that it means it messed up crossover in the z direction. if you cross two fit individuals the child could be terribly unfit because the depth of the objects could be so varied
04:58.32poolioso it looks like the best solution is to use a_ray_length and use the fixed coordinates for the rays for every single model
05:03.53brlcadyou could reshoot the grid based on the union of both the genotype and the input, but that'd be horribly inefficient -- you should be able to shoot exactly the same rays you initially shot for the input as well as additional rays as needed if the model was bigger
05:04.25brlcadif that's too much, then just process your segments yourself clamping the starting and ending to be withing the original box
05:05.26brlcadI don't recall if a_ray_length will trim the segment or if it is like the starting segment such that it just guarantees there will not be a new segment encountered past that length (i.e. an entry)
05:05.40pooliook
05:06.27poolioSo I'm just going to clamp the input to 0, and the maximum to the mdl_max[Z] of the input
05:06.42brlcadprobably easiest for now and should be fine
05:07.02brlcadcould even try to guarantee that your sample geometry will not go outside those bounds either
05:07.29brlcadbecomes really problematic once you add subtractions and unions, but it should be good enough for now
05:08.55pooliowhat do you mean trying not to guarantee that sample gemoetry will not go outside those bounds?
05:09.45brlcadwell, why is your geometry outside the input bounding box?
05:10.20pooliowell I see what you mean, but just cause it's outside the bounding box doesn't mean we don't want it
05:10.29brlcadexactly
05:10.35brlcadbut you could clamp it if you wanted
05:10.37poolioAs you said with subtractions and intersections, that shape could become vital
05:10.38brlcadat least for unions
05:10.42pooliotrue
05:10.57pooliobut I mean it might be that our model is shapes like a hemisphere
05:11.13poolioin which case we want to allow the model to be outside of the bounding box
05:11.27pooliohowever, as I think I still havent done, shapes which don't intersect the bounding box are pointless
05:12.00brlcadto properly do subtractions and intersections, though, the genotype's bounding box is going to have to be accounted for when you shoot rays (by shooting additional rays) just for it to work
05:12.05pooliobut ideally the GA would be able to magically sift those out :)
05:12.25brlcadyes, that's important .. all primtives must be enclosed by or intersect the input bounding box
05:12.26pooliowait, why would I need to shoot additional rays?
05:13.31brlcadwell, if you did a cross-over with some shape that was bigger, and that intersected something else that was bigger, and the operation was an intersection -- there could be a whole chunk of material outside the bounds that you're shooting (that should otherwise lower the fitness because it's wrong)
05:13.50brlcadyou could end up missing that geometry that was outside entirely, even though as primtivies, they actually overlap the input box
05:15.43pooliowell i don't necessarily think that chunk should lower the fitness
05:16.11poolioand it actually would because of the tree depth
05:16.18brlcadyou can probably go on the assumption that you're limiting your stuff to basic quadric surfaces so you won't encounter that case
05:16.41brlcadthe depth could just be 0 or 1 still
05:16.44pooliowell even with that case I feel like the GA will still be able to figure it out with the superflous material
05:33.38brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/think_outside_the_box.png
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07:19.31tessierWow
07:19.45tessierI can't believe there is an actual brlcad community now!
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14:48.56LinuxMafiahi
14:49.12LinuxMafiai am new in brlcad
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14:50.49LinuxMafiais there a way when i press 0 , make also the raytrace to move not only the shapes?
14:50.59LinuxMafiasorry press z*
15:39.54pooliobrlcad: should I increase fitness for matching missed rays?
16:15.06pooliohelo
16:16.32Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/rf041.png  -  Weee... I'm not too sure how well that will compare with others at Siggraph
16:18.53pooliowait, you can render it at 14 fps?
16:19.05MaloeranSure
16:19.15Maloeran( With 3 moving lights )
16:19.50pooliowow
16:20.02poolioyou might even be able to run crysis ;)
16:20.31brlcadtessier: howdy
16:21.03brlcadLinuxMafia: what do you mean?  If you're in an edit mode, then pressing z will edit the model, in a view mode and it just rotates the camera/view
16:21.39LinuxMafiabrlcad, when i raytrace
16:22.02LinuxMafiai want the raytarced obj to rotate instead wireframe
16:22.12brlcadpoolio: yes! .. that's why I just said "matching" earlier -- matching means matching both segments and matching air/misses correctly
16:23.58poolioalso there were some bugs in my logic in the fitness routine, works better now, but the results aren't much better
16:24.01LinuxMafiabrlcad, when i press z only wireframe rotates
16:26.29brlcadLinuxMafia: yes, because generally it takes a while to raytrace a given frame
16:26.41brlcadso it only does it on demand as you request it
16:27.32poolioeek, i'm at 75C :\
16:27.57LinuxMafiabrlcad, so can i rotate the raytraced obj ? (other than rotate wireframe and raytrace again)
16:28.15brlcadLinuxMafia: I'd gather you simply want "shaded displays", not necessarily caring whether it's ray-traced or not
16:29.02LinuxMafiabrlcad, i just want to whatch it rotates beacause it will be so cool
16:29.37brlcadyes, I know
16:29.46brlcadyou want shaded displays
16:30.18brlcadmged unfortunately doesn't do shaded displays, but that is part of the new modeling interface being worked on
16:32.37LinuxMafiabrlcad, wow that would be cool , thanks alot
16:41.27pooliobrlcad: ok maybe not...fitness function is still giving negative numbers
16:42.15LinuxMafiais there any undo key?
16:43.23poolionope
16:48.50LinuxMafiathanks so if i did something wrong
16:48.58LinuxMafiano way back
17:05.50LinuxMafiahow can i switch to edit mode and viw mode
17:05.51LinuxMafia?
17:09.03LinuxMafiaany one?
17:09.27LinuxMafiabrlcad, are you here ?
17:16.18*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org)
17:16.18*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
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17:28.12LinuxMafiano matter i found it
17:28.59poolioLinuxMafia: have you looked through the manuals on the website?
17:29.32LinuxMafiapoolio, this is what i am reading , but i dont have patiant
17:29.46LinuxMafiapoolio, i am reading the tutorial
17:30.07brlcadheh, not having patience is going to be difficult
17:30.20brlcadthere is a LOT to take in and learn before you can be productive
17:30.29LinuxMafiapoolio, one problem i have shift+alt+mouse does not work for me
17:30.32brlcadthe tutorials are big, and they only scratch the surface
17:31.43LinuxMafiapoolio, for example when i click shift+alt+middle mouse drag it is as same as shift + left mouse
17:32.16LinuxMafiait looks like Alt key  not be seen
17:33.43pooliobrlcad: I think my program is losing it's mind (or maybe I am)
17:35.34LinuxMafiawow i found a solution for that
17:35.40LinuxMafia:D
18:40.16pooliobrlcad: I'm tempted to do some major code restructuring. The results just aren't making sense and I feel like it might be because of a buffer overflow I'm missing somewhere
18:51.57pooliobrlcad: if I don't have it workin by monday would you have the time to look through it and hopefully make it work?
18:52.32poolioor if not I'll probably move on and implement mutation and the other things we talked about as I don't see myself going anywhere with this. struggled the whole week and pretty much got nowhere
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18:59.27MinuteElectronDarn, I am going away again on Sunday.
18:59.49MinuteElectronWon't be back at a copmuter for a week, then might not have full access to one then.
18:59.59MinuteElectronAfter that week I have to go to Ireland.
19:00.19MinuteElectronFor two weeks.
19:00.36MinuteElectronbrlcad: How is the LDAP going? DOne any work with it yet on bzflag (just seeing if you got it going)
19:03.24*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
19:26.01brlcadMinuteElectron: it's coming along slowly, there've been a couple other interruptions (both here and for bz)
19:26.09brlcadMinuteElectron: can you enable my drupal access :)
19:28.38``Erikblehhhhhhhh
19:29.56``Erikbrlcad: what's the deal with the tclcad bezier patch not being built anymore?
19:36.57brlcadit's gone
19:37.00brlcadno longer needed
19:37.01brlcadpoof
19:37.09brlcadno longer used
19:37.10``Erikbetween 7.10.0 and 7.10.2 ?
19:37.14brlcadyep
19:37.37``ErikI was banging my head yesterday trying to figure out why my cvs copy built np using system tcl but the port didn't
19:37.38``Erikheh
19:37.59``Erik<-- will introduce system tcl/tk on the fbsd port with 7.10.2
19:38.07brlcadthat was the reason
19:38.30brlcadbarring some itcl/itk LIBRARY path problems, we should be good for using system tcl/tk libs now
19:38.57``Erikit seems to work on fbsd with head
19:39.08brlcadyou tried system incr?
19:39.13``Erikitcl/itk in the fbsd ports is still restricted to 8.4
19:39.16``Erikso I haven't attempted
19:39.20brlcadk
19:39.31``ErikI might create 85 versions in the next few days
19:39.55brlcadincrtcl's versioning is diff
19:40.56brlcadah, i see what you meant
19:41.19brlcadyeah, they should work with 4 or 5, I don't recall having to update incrtcl for 8.5
19:42.01``Erikhum
19:42.15``Erikafter 7.10.2 I may bug you about appropriate testing against older incr's then
19:42.17brlcadif I did, it was pretty minor
19:42.37``Erikbut then it'd require both tk 84 and 85 on the system, due to how ports are set up :/
19:43.29brlcad8.5 final shouldn't be too far off
19:43.34``Erikbleh, I'm out sick today, i shouldn't be worrying about shit like that
19:43.34``ErikO.o
19:57.10MinuteElectronbrlcad: You made an account on the wiki yet?
19:57.44brlcadyes
19:57.52MinuteElectronCool.
19:58.00MinuteElectronHmm, when?
19:59.15brlcadthat one was just today, the druapl one was a week or so ago
19:59.29MinuteElectronAhh,
19:59.31MinuteElectronI see.
20:03.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: Hmm, not sure quite what you mean by 'enable'.
20:04.56brlcadadmin access to make mods
20:05.02MinuteElectronAhh, done then.
20:05.19MinuteElectronbrlcad: You now have top-level permissions on both the wiki and drupal.
20:05.44MinuteElectronAny idea who 'yogesh kumar dhiman' is?
20:05.48brlcadcool
20:05.49brlcadheh, no
20:05.53brlcadsounds like a spammer
20:06.11MinuteElectronprobably
20:06.43dtidrow_workor somebody from india?
20:07.11MinuteElectronpossibly
20:07.20dtidrow_workor maybe some other asian country...
20:12.19brlcadhttp://recaptcha.net/  would be good to have on the site
20:12.58MinuteElectronIndeed.
20:13.39brlcadit can, I installed it on a diff. site just recently :)
20:14.23MinuteElectron:)
20:20.22MinuteElectronThere appears to be a problem with PHP\Apache, the include path is being registered as /usr/web/ftp.brlcad.org/w/ instead of my.
20:24.20brlcadmy is the same as ftp
20:24.53MinuteElectronIgnore that, my bad.
20:24.54MinuteElectronlol
20:25.08MinuteElectronI mucked up the files.
20:25.11MinuteElectronFixed now.
20:25.37MinuteElectronWheee: http://my.brlcad.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup
20:26.36brlcadcool
20:57.46*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871705.dsl.bell.ca)
20:58.53IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/screen.png  <--- progress :)
20:59.59IriX64vmware is very good
21:00.07MinuteElectronIs it free?
21:00.13IriX64for 30 days
21:00.19MinuteElectronbah
21:00.23IriX64heh
21:00.25MinuteElectroncasts his eyes away
21:00.41IriX64i may buy it
21:00.53MinuteElectronHow much does it cost?
21:02.02IriX64169.00
21:02.08IriX64us
21:02.12MinuteElectronholy crap
21:02.26IriX64thats not much
21:03.20MinuteElectronPerhpas it is good software.
21:03.34IriX64i deal honestly if the software performs as expected i pay
21:04.20IriX64registered winrar even though it continues to work past experation date :)
21:04.44MinuteElectron7-zip?
21:04.49IriX64and mirc and stuff
21:04.59IriX64no dont have 7-zip
21:05.05IriX64tried it though
21:05.24MinuteElectronFLOSSFTWFM
21:05.31IriX64?
21:06.05poolioIriX64: vmware has a free "vmware player"
21:06.15IriX64whats that
21:06.17poolioif you created a disk image while using the trial software, you can continue using it using the free vmware player
21:06.20MinuteElectronFree\Libre Open Source Softeare For The Way For Me.
21:06.30poolioit's kind of a stripped down version that they distribute so people can use the vmx images
21:06.39IriX64ahh i see
21:07.04IriX64i bet you need the full version to install though right?
21:07.13pooliohttp://www.vmware.com/products/player/
21:07.14pooliono
21:07.21poolioI mean if you are running fine right now, you can use vmware player
21:07.23poolio(i think)
21:07.34IriX64im still installing
21:08.04poolioLike I  know some software I've used (numenta) distributes a linux image that you can run freely using vmware player
21:09.22MinuteElectronIriX64: You could be our vmware distributor.
21:09.27MinuteElectron:P{
21:09.29MinuteElectron*:P
21:09.34IriX64i see just reading about it, I can't distribute what im installing though man its IBMs warp 4
21:09.53IriX64MinuteElectron :)
21:10.09poolioIt wouldn't be that hard
21:10.10IriX64legal copy by the way
21:10.30poolioJust setup vmware (you'd have to have it) and install something like CentOS, install BRL-CAD, and distribute the image.
21:11.12IriX64for windows users you mean? whats wrong with distributing a handfull of dll'd and brlcad?
21:11.19pooliohttp://www.numenta.com/for-developers/software/nuvm.php
21:11.24IriX64dlls too
21:11.26poolioIriX64: There isn't anything wrong as long as it works
21:11.36IriX64it works man
21:11.45IriX64just taking a break from it
21:11.55poolio:)
21:16.03IriX64heh /update.png   lemme know what you're thinking :)
21:17.29IriX64this on workstation 6
21:40.21MinuteElectronbrlcad: reCAPTCHA on Drupal aint working now - I will fixor it tomorrow hopefully. But then I am gone again for another week or three (one or the other).
21:40.25MinuteElectronGoodnight.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070728

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070728

00:09.54*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
00:50.51brlcadMinuteElectron: sounds good, I can take a look at it as well (though I'll be working on ldap first)
04:26.00pooliobrlcad: hmmm I want to port my code to scheme 8)
04:26.21brlcadheh
04:26.28brlcadyou been talking to ``Erik or something
04:27.07poolionaw. I've just been meaning to learn scheme and ran through the first bit of SICP and it looks enticing
04:27.41poolioent.hispeed.ch�
04:27.42poolio|20:11| �    yukonbob ��> �n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net�
04:27.42poolio|20:52| <@    brlcad> MinuteElectron: sounds good, I can take a look at it as well (though I'll be working on ldap first)
04:27.45poolioDay changed to 28 Jul 2007
04:27.48pooliochrist
04:27.57poolioi need to fix my synaptics driver
04:29.58pooliookee, fixed :D
04:49.45yukonbobpoolio: what code do you want to port to scheme?
04:56.52brlcadhis genetic algorithm code
04:56.56brlcadbeset
05:03.50yukonbobhey brlcad ;)
05:04.26brlcadhowdy bob
05:04.28yukonbobinteresting timing, cause I've been thinking of getting into scheme for some time too, and finally made a project for myself to play with it...
05:05.10yukonbobinterfacing guile w/ silc lib... and that made me think of guile bindings for brlcad ;)
05:05.26brlcadswig bindings would be better
05:05.32brlcadthen you'd get guile for free
05:05.57yukonbobthere you go -- swig is on my list of things to learn more about...
05:06.12yukonbobhow's it going sean?
05:10.05brlcadpretty good
05:10.22brlcadalmost time to get ready for siggraph in a week
05:10.27yukonbob!nice
05:10.34CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: inform the T2 package maintainer of linux releases
05:10.41yukonbobhow long is that event?
05:10.47brlcadtrying to get a new release out as well as finish up another code event beforehand
05:10.52brlcadit's about a week
05:11.34yukonbobhow integrated is the in-memory format <--> renderer
05:11.51brlcadwhat do you mean?
05:11.55yukonbobie: how tough would it be to use povray (for example) to render brlcad scene.
05:13.24brlcadwouldn't be too hard, but easiest would be to write a g-pov geometry exporter
05:13.31brlcadpovray's format is pretty straightforward
05:13.39yukonbobor the renderer that ships w/  blender, or any arbitrary renderer...
05:13.45brlcadit'd be one of the easiest exporters to write
05:13.50yukonbobcool.
05:14.00brlcadlikewise for an importer
05:14.21brlcadpovray actually has loads of good overlap with our format as they also support CSG
05:14.30brlcadand implicit primitives
05:15.00brlcadthe only difference would be dealing with non-solid geometry (povray will render non-solid, brl-cad does not)
05:15.33yukonbobright, pov ray generates shells, basically, iirc.
05:15.40brlcadneed explicit format geometry to do most of the cel rendering techniques
05:15.51brlcadotherwise, something like rtedge is in that direction
05:16.43yukonbobI was playing w/ rtedge other week, and it was generating lots of horizontal artifacts (ie: horizontal lines sweeping off the curves)... is that typical?
05:16.58brlcadthose povray shells could probably come in as nmg geometry, or even plate mode bots (which allows for thin-surfaces)
05:17.50brlcadno, that's not -- that was a bug in a particular version, if it's what I'm thinking you saw
05:17.54yukonbobyou've lost me there brlcad, but no matter... I've still got dem conversion and docbook before I get involved with anything like renderers...
05:17.57brlcadshould be fixed
05:18.41brlcadahh :)
05:18.55brlcadhopefully 8.5 final isn't too far away
05:19.09yukonbobgotta be Real Soon Now(tm)
05:19.15brlcadthat was part of the premise of moving to it, though need for critcial features too
05:19.41yukonboboh, it'll all work out for certain... it's just a goofy transition atm
05:19.49brlcadyeah
05:19.59brlcadfirst time we've ever had/needed to
05:20.27brlcadusually way more cautious/hesitant on the upgrades
05:21.44brlcadif you get to the point of needing commit access, just let me know
05:22.31brlcadthe door is fairly open to new devs so long as I can continue to review all commits with enough diligence
05:22.45yukonbobwill do -- soon, hopefully, I'll be able to dedicate some more contiguous chunks of time...
05:23.24yukonbobbrlcad is still managed by cvs, no?
05:24.24brlcadthat will be changed before the year's end, but yes
05:25.14yukonbobis there anonymous checkout avail?
05:25.15brlcadyeah, still on cvs for the time being
05:25.18brlcad~cadcvs
05:25.18ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS:  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
05:25.32yukonbobnice
05:28.42yukonbobbrlcad: you a schemer/lisper?
05:28.59brlcadI've written some lisp over the years
05:32.49brlcadthese days, alas mostly limited to emacs snippets but it's good enough to satisfy the itch
05:33.14brlcadfor a long while, I've wanted to have a BRL-CAD major mode for .g files that lets you browse the geometry contents (ala tar mode)
05:45.30yukonbobsigraph starts next week (monday)?
05:45.56yukonbob*siggraph
05:46.06pooliobrlcad: when are you gone?
05:50.34yukonbobahh --- 6-9Aug
05:51.38brlcadstarts on sat/sun next week
05:51.49poolioeek
05:51.50CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/.cvsignore tk/unix/.cvsignore): ignore tcl/tk lib products
05:52.15brlcadpoolio: yeah, eek :)
05:52.45pooliobrlcad: I was hoping to be done work before the 10th :\
05:52.56yukonbobbrlcad: are you looking forward to anything in particular when you attend?
05:53.06brlcadyukonbob: yeah, the whole thing :)
05:53.12yukonboblol
05:53.13brlcadsiggraph is a great conference
05:53.22brlcadso much to see and do, it's really "big"
05:53.33poolioany booth babes like at E3?
05:53.38poolio*they used to have at E3
05:53.52brlcadonce the expo starts, yeah some :)
05:54.16brlcadthough the expo is only during the latter half, and not nearly as crazy booth-babe-wise as E3
05:55.23brlcada great balance of deeply technical content with artistic taste and entertainment
05:55.36pooliocool. I'm jealous
06:00.52yukonbobbring us back T-shirts: "My friend went to siggraph 2007 and all I got was this lousey t-shirt"
06:07.47brlcadI get a shirt every year :)
07:03.56brlcadMinuteElectron: .htaccess are re-enabled
07:15.37CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h population.h): fitness function should be working, so selection must be broken
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07:18.19pooliobrlcad: errrr
07:18.26pooliohttp://poolio.org/files/bad_convergence.png
07:19.18pooliobut I must sleep, I probably won't be around til late tomorrow
07:19.26pooliogood night/mornin'
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11:28.13andy__Hello
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12:53.51MinuteElectronbrlcad: Will sort everything out in 1 or 3 weeks time.
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20:07.47MaloeranThis is a strange question, but... does someone know how video playback in mplayer can take only 0.1% of one processor core? Can it really be that Nvidia drivers provide hardware mpeg4/xvid decoding? I can't really see any other explanation
20:11.23``Erikum, given that mpeg (and jpeg) are based on breaking small areas (like 8x8) into simple regions with parametric systems (like, 16 different variants, iirc)
20:11.55``ErikI think it'd be totally possible to make a very simple ogl accelerlated mpeg/jpeg display using 16 textures and gauroud shading for the color aspect...
20:12.19MaloeranAs far as I know, Xv provides hardware color space conversion and scaling, there's no decoding involved
20:12.30``ErikXv != GL
20:12.41``Erik*shrug*
20:12.53MaloeranIndeed, but I'm looking at mplayer using 0.1% of one core just using the Xv driver
20:12.57``Erikat one point, I was going to write an ogl mpeg decoder, but *shrug*
20:13.04``Erikfast cpu's, I guess?
20:13.14``Erikmpeg is a pretty simple format
20:13.17MaloeranWhile I'm told that Mark has trouble playing back high-definition videos on his dual-core laptop
20:13.35``Erikheh
20:13.59``Erikwinderz has trouble doing something simple like, y'know, booting
20:14.00``ErikO.o
20:14.01``Erik:)
20:14.19Maloeran:) Meh
20:14.36MaloeranI gave him 1024x768 videos, about 1mb per second of compressed data, and he says it's jerky
20:14.52MaloeranAnd mplayer doesn't get above 0.1% of cpu use when decoding here, I really don't get it
20:15.01``Erikmebbe the codec is the biggie?
20:15.28MaloeranI used the msmpegv4 codec on purpose, the Microsoft variant of mpeg4
20:15.30``ErikI would suspect that standardized codecs would be disadvantaged on winderz, while ms codecs would groove right along
20:15.35``Erikheh
20:15.43MaloeranSo that windows users can play the video without having to install codecs
20:15.56``Erikis that the usual form for .avi files?
20:16.17MaloeranIt's a common codec for .avi files, yes
20:16.32``Eriktell mark to quit running all those viruses and porn shit? :D
20:16.45MaloeranI sent him high quality x264 videos and such long ago and he never managed to play them
20:16.47``Erikis he using like a p166 laptop? O.o
20:16.57MaloeranA Core 2 Duo laptop
20:17.09``Erikerm, so a mac, not winderz?
20:17.15MaloeranOh, it's windows
20:17.25``Erikthose use core duo's now? heh
20:17.34MaloeranHe also has Linux installed although he doesn't know how to use it
20:17.45``Erikpointy hairs
20:18.00MaloeranAnyhow, I'm a bit annoyed because I have no idea how to fix that "problem"
20:18.16MaloeranI don't suppose you have any thoughts?
20:18.21``Erikask him to use a slightly less inferior machine? hehehhe
20:18.37``ErikI'd suspect he has other processes gobbling cpu at the same time
20:18.40MaloeranIt's a good machine, I have seen it. I have no idea where the slowness comes from
20:18.48``Erikso the winderz 'process manager' might provide clues
20:19.01``Erik<-- has no simple 'quick fix'
20:19.43``Erikprobably outlook or word running some ugly macro, heh
20:19.55Maloeranmsmpeg4-v2 decoding, very simple stuff, just 1024x768 at 20 frames per second, 1mb of compressed data to read per second... I'm sure I could run that on my amd-k6!
20:20.31MaloeranMmmhm, carbohydrates
20:20.48``Erik'cept smothered in shredded bacon and cheese and sour cream, heh
20:20.48``Erik:D
20:20.50``Erikmmm, fat.
20:20.58MaloeranOh. :)
20:21.37MaloeranIs it possible that windows wouldn't have video drivers installed and use Vesa or something? I thought they had passed that stage
20:22.11MaloeranPerhaps the machine has trouble pushing 60mb of data to video memory per second *shivers*
20:22.21louipcthat's unfortunate
20:25.02MaloeranOkay, it's confirmed, the video plays smoothly on an AMD-k6 333mhz with windows 98. But not a manager's Core 2 Duo laptop
20:25.15Maloerannot on* a
20:26.04louipcno way!
20:26.15MaloeranAs I said, I don't understand it either
20:26.21louipcVista? hehhe
20:26.35``Erikum, perhaps the driver cofnig is all effed up and he's doing it all sw?
20:26.37``Erik*shrug*
20:26.41``Erikwith multi-copy buffers?
20:26.43``Erik*shrug*
20:26.59``Erikor perhaps the machine figured out the operator has pointy hair and is being mean? :D
20:27.15Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/m1a2.avi  -  Here's the video if anyone happens to be on windows
20:27.29MaloeranEheh Erik, I like that hypothesis :)
20:28.43louipchow about if I'm in Linux?
20:29.24MaloeranIt should play very smoothly as far as I can see, 0.1% of cpu use here
20:32.30louipc~30% for me but I have an old machine
20:36.15``Erikplayed without noticable cpu utilization usin gVLC here, on a powerbook pro 2.0
20:36.30``Erikwith 'world of warcraft' running, to boot...
20:36.39louipchah
20:36.47``Eriktwo processessors, 3 lights, first hit?
20:36.49MaloeranI really wonder how the video decoding can be so cheap, it's puzzling me
20:37.07louipcmine's a 866MHz PIII
20:37.14MaloeranThat's correct. The two processors got 4 cores each though
20:37.27``Erikah, so that's an 8 cor epass to push that 20 fps
20:37.42``Erikand I was about to be impressed :>
20:37.59MaloeranI'm sorry I wasn't up to the task :)
20:38.30``Erik20 fps at that rez on even 8 cores is not trivial
20:38.41louipcnot quite a regular desktop
20:38.43``Erikimagine running 1/10 the tirangles, like an ogl came
20:38.45``Erikgame
20:39.01``Erik(that's the shell m1 from the cinema site, right?)
20:39.19MaloeranYes, it's the same M1 model Justin gave me about two years ago
20:39.27``Erikprobably NOT the best model to be showing around, btw, I think it's a limited distribution dealie
20:39.49``Erikyanking the havoc or hilux might be safer :)
20:39.50MaloeranHum. I was told I could "show" it around, but not distribute it
20:39.59MaloeranWhere can I get these?
20:40.00``Erikby justin...
20:40.21``ErikI surspect that he was techinically funding when he 'distributed' it to you
20:40.32``Erikhavoc is in the brlcad repo, unencumbered
20:41.01``ErikI believe the hilux has been approved for unencumbered distribution, but hasn't actually been shoved in the repo yet... video of it should be no issue, though
20:41.13``Erikgiven subcontractor relation
20:41.47MaloeranThanks, I'll have a look at the Havoc
20:43.25MaloeranOh. Video decoding uses XvMC, for which there are Nvidia drivers for hardware decoding. Neat stuff
20:44.13``Erikheh
20:44.18``Erikcool
20:46.07MaloeranEh yes, looks like it has already beenn done
20:46.55``Erikhum, that page is all like 6 years old
20:47.52``Erikin fact, that first item is implemented in gtk1.2
20:48.14``Erikand goes back to gtk 0.30
20:48.17``Erikiirc
20:48.28``Erik'96ish
20:48.31``Erikmebbe '97
20:49.12``Erikthe salt and cheese on those taters are so making me want more salt and cheese !#~! O.o grar.
20:50.02MaloeranMmhm :). I'm just curious, you kept your university user so many years after you left?
20:50.16``Erikheh, anti-kosher... pig mixed with cheese, sheesh
20:50.23MaloeranAs I assume math.missouristate.edu is where you once stsudied
20:50.25Maloeranstudied, too
20:50.44``Erikyes, when at the uni, I volunteered tutoring to a professor in the math dept, and still aid him in trickier sysadmin duties
20:50.54Maloeranhttp://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=MILITARY/&name=Y4937_Biotank  -  That is one mean looking tank
20:50.57``Erikin return, I have an account as long as te dept has a machine
20:51.23MaloeranNice
20:51.35``Eriksame guy who gave me the 2 hour crash course in omfg real quaternions
20:51.49``Erikwhich is why I have a slightly different view of them than your typical ogl coder
20:52.26``Erikum, I MIGHT be able to get you some other models, like a real t62 (with guts)
20:52.32``ErikI'll have to talk to people, though
20:52.40``Erikand it'd come in BRL-CAD format
20:53.00Maloeran*nods* I understood quaternions after staring at code using quats for 2 weeks in high school, and just playing with the numbers a lot. It's not a typical approach
20:53.13MaloeranIt's fine, I got a g2rtgg converter
20:53.38``ErikI kinda got a rough overview of a coders view of quats... then went to the prof and got the mathematical background, so a lot of the weird coder shit became obvious
20:53.54``Eriklike groking that it's 3 imaginary orthogenal axis with a real scalar
20:54.11MaloeranYes, I got that part.  I have very little mathematical background
20:54.34Maloeran"A proof? What's that? Meh, just write the code to test 1 billion cases over the night."
20:55.06``Erikah, but a proof isn't worth 1billion tests, it's worth infinity tests
20:55.42MaloeranSure so, but something can be "true enough" for me after 1 billion cases :)
20:55.46``Erikprogram provability is a skeery but awesome path in computer science
20:56.08``Erikand the difference is between "good enough" and "omfg right"
20:56.20MaloeranEheh, well put
20:56.33``Erikif you're painting a display for a vidoe game or sim, whatever, but if peoples lives are on the line, i'd rather have a provable system
20:56.37``Erik:)
20:57.07MaloeranTrue. I'm just definitely not a mathematician
20:57.48``Erikme, iether... I'm just old, and becoming more and more concerned with 'critical' software and the reprecussions of an oops
20:58.08MaloeranMany years ago, I solved integrals by observing relations between solving integrals by brute-force and the original equation. I didn't know the background, I didn't even know what the word "integral" was or meant, but it worked for me
20:58.30``Erikintegrals are trivial to brute force
20:58.52``Erikthe notion of "an area under a curve" is easily understnadable by just about anyone
20:58.53``Erik:)
20:59.00MaloeranSure, and I used that to obtain the real integral, from which deductions can be made to directly obtain any integral
20:59.41``Erikof course, for some curves, you can only approximate given a statement of range.. :)
20:59.58``Erikwithout dropping to a base numerical solver
21:00.34MaloeranI'm still very much biased towards "brute-forcing" my way through problems, in order to find better solutions, rather than mathematically proving anything
21:00.47``Erik<-- has a fistful of solvers in haskell and scheme...
21:00.50louipc:(
21:01.04``Erikand my solvers generally tend to be 2-5 lines of code and work faster than the equivelant 3 pages of java or c++
21:01.08``Erik:)
21:02.21MaloeranIn a programmer's world, maths are impure anyway, all numbers got limited precision. True mathematial proofs can end up false when applied
21:02.36``Eriknot true
21:02.48``Erikthere are mechanisms to deal with true numbers
21:03.02``Erik'scheme' does it automatically, and for C, there are libraries such as gpm
21:03.24``Erikthe issue is if you're willing to pay the cost for the accuracy
21:03.28``Erikand that's an engineering decision :)
21:04.41MaloeranAre libraries such as gpm strictly correct even with irrational numbers?
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21:05.27``ErikI believe so... I think gpm deforms to an unlimited form when the ieee format is insufficient
21:05.41``Erikso it's slow and has teh ability to gobble buttloads of memory
21:05.49``Erikbut will give you omfg right values
21:05.53MaloeranSure, but the square root of 2.0 is never going to be exact unless you store it sqrt(2) directly
21:06.12MaloeranMeaning the complexity of your number becomes a long equation which is totally impractical
21:06.24``Erik<-- unsure of exactly how gpm handles that
21:06.55MaloeranI don't know either, but I suspect that even gpm wouldn't be strictly "true" mathematically speaking. True proofs can end up false
21:07.13``Erikbe interesting to explore that
21:07.16Maloeranhttp://www-rocq1.inria.fr/gamma/download/affichage.php?dir=MILITARY/&name=Y4937_Biotank  -  Ah, I really like that model, it's just so ugly!  I think I'll send Mark a video of it
21:07.42``Erikis that the same on you sent earlier?
21:08.03MaloeranSame url, yes
21:08.08``Erikno one dues fugly like the french *sigh*
21:08.14``Eriks/u/o/
21:09.06``Erikgermans may have fat chicks with horns on their helmets, but the rench have... that...
21:09.06``Erik:D
21:09.08MaloeranOn the battlefield, I would laugh if faced with such a vehicule. It could be a terribly weapon
21:09.17Maloeranterrible*
21:09.51``Erikbut I bet the back of the vehicle is ok to look at... f it's french, that's the part any opposing force would see... O:-)
21:09.58MaloeranI'm reaally not finding where the M1 came from
21:10.18louipcwtf is that? haha
21:10.27``Erikthen it's probably a model worth avoiding :(
21:11.00``Erikeven though it's legit and shit, ti could still cause issues when small minded people make idiotic assumptions
21:11.13``Erik(like that no non-US person could ever do any tech worth doing... a common but WRONG view)
21:11.43MaloeranThat's a... common view?
21:11.55``Erikamong small minded people, yes
21:12.11``ErikI have no other explaination for the fucktarded export laws in the us
21:13.47MaloeranI'm still amazed by how so many americans know little about the world out there, it's a big planet
21:13.59``Erik*shrug*
21:14.12``ErikI've talked to equally ignorant people from many other countries, including canuckia
21:15.04``Erikpeople around toronot, sheesh
21:15.06``Erikall kinds of special
21:15.07``Erik:)
21:15.25louipc:O
21:15.44MaloeranI think there's just too much misplaced patriotism, heavily fed to the population by the medias, it's kind of scary
21:16.19``Erikthat's the vocal minority, I hope
21:16.31MaloeranPatriotism blinds people to the fact, it narrows their mind.  It's socially harmful, yet it's seen as a good thing down there
21:17.25MaloeranI hope so too, Erik, I certainly do
21:20.11louipcthere was an issue with citizens of certain countries doing work on US helicopters
21:20.34louipcwhere bell helicopters had to lay them off, I think they were still canadian citizens too
21:22.03MaloeranYes, I remember hearing about this.  You once deported a canadian citizen travelling to the states, an university professor, to Syria... because he had dual-citizenship with Syria. That was weird
21:22.28louipcrcmp tipped off us authorities, mistakenly though
21:24.16MaloeranErik or anyone else, what would you recommend as way to find out the "top level" region list to pass to db_walk_tree() to be able to read out a model?
21:24.35``Erik'tops'?
21:24.37MaloeranI'm a bit tired of having to look into the .g files for some kind of appropriately named string
21:24.48``Erikmged -c file.g tops
21:24.51MaloeranHow would I do it from code?
21:25.06MaloeranThis is for the g2rtgg extractor, which is based from Lee's code
21:25.12``Erikum, I don't remember, heh, but the 'tops' command sould be fairly easy to find
21:25.27``ErikI'd imagine it's a variant of the 'ls' code
21:26.52``Erikan os unto itself.. *cough*
21:31.46MaloeranHum, I guess I'll look into that.  It's kind of annoying this task of having to find the name of whatever you are looking for in the file, I wish I could just say "all of it"
21:33.04``Erikthe tops command gives you the top level entities
21:33.22``Erikgiven those and the ability to traverse recursively, you have 'all of it'
21:33.41``Erikyou'd have to look into the specific implementation, though :) I dunno off teh top of my head
21:34.37MaloeranYes, I'm trying to make sense of librt/wdb_obj.c
21:40.41MaloeranI'm not actually finding any Bags Of Triangles in havoc.g, I guess the geometry would have to be triangulated, somehow
21:45.37``Erikyeah, the nmg routines
22:10.17tessier_How does brl-cad compare to something like autocad?
22:10.39tessier_I am looking for something to design model airplanes and do some solid modeling.
22:11.10tessier_Calculate surface areas, make sure internal components fit, plot patterns for gluing onto materials for cutting etc.
22:13.22louipcyeah I think BRL-CAD is good for that sort of thing
22:13.28louipcnot really for drafting though
22:13.35``Eriknot so much plotting patterns
22:13.41``Erikbut figurng out if things fit, yeah...
22:13.51tessier_Well, it can print out a 2d diagram onto paper right?
22:13.57louipcnot really
22:14.06louipc(drafting)
22:14.18tessier_hrm...how can it do all these other things but not handle that?
22:14.24``Erikit's more an analysis tool, not a building tool
22:14.25louipcno clue haha
22:15.36``Erikthe kinda core intent is to have a good 'complete' model, pop a ray through it and get a solid understanding of what that ray hits, the depth of the hit, in and out normals, ... a 'segment list', so drafting shtuff just ain't there
22:16.24``Erik(for the last twenty or so years, every dollar has been thrown at figuring out how bullets go through things, not anything construction oriented... so it's weak in that area... feel free to improve it, it's open source :D )
22:16.39tessier_So Linux still has no good drafting tools? :(
22:17.04louipctessier_: qcad is what people use pretty much
22:17.05tessier_``Erik: Yes although full scale stuff is a possibility also.
22:17.15tessier_louipc: Funny. I used to host the qcad website. :)
22:17.20louipcif you're familiar with autocad qcad is easy to pick up
22:17.22``Erik<-- cut off a finger doing r/c, wants to get back into it... mebbe doing ellectrics
22:17.22louipchahah
22:17.25tessier_But it has always seemed like a toy to me. But that was years ago. I should check it out again.
22:17.28tessier_``Erik: Electrics rock now.
22:17.34``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/finger/
22:17.37``Erikso I've heard
22:17.45tessier_louipc: In fact, I convinced the qcad author to go GPL. But in 95 or so.
22:17.56louipcyeah I'm not so much a fan but, it works I guess
22:18.02``Erikone of my buddies, the guy who did the oepnnurbs shtuff (jlowenz) is into electrics...
22:18.04tessier_Can I import things from qcad to brl-cad in any way?
22:18.09louipcdxf
22:18.22``Erik2d things in dxf don't xfer to brlcad so very well
22:18.25tessier_I am into gliders and electrics. I used to do gas way back in high school (early 90's) but the electric stuff is so much better now.
22:18.57louipctessier_: nice about the GPL :D
22:19.07``ErikI tried gas in '90 or so, backed off, did it again in '03/'04, hwacked my finger and have been too chickenshit to bothr since
22:19.28tessier_``Erik: You will prefer electric then. You probably whacked your finger starting or adjusting mixture right?
22:19.45``Erikadjusting one of twingy's planes, yes
22:19.48louipc:D
22:19.50``Erikafter I lost one
22:19.52tessier_Electric is so much nicer. You never have the engine sitting around idling and you have no problem with mixture or starting.
22:20.02``Erikthat's why I've been thinking about it :)
22:20.16louipcand you can use it for stealth reconnaisance?
22:20.18tessier_Hopefully a combination of qcad/brl-cad can do what I need
22:20.18``Erikbut the ~600 drive cost ... unless it's dropped a lot
22:20.29tessier_``Erik: No way dude. Get a speed 400 powered plane. Dirt cheap.
22:20.38tessier_$10 for the motor, maybe $40 for the ESC, I don't recall.
22:20.43tessier_Another $20 for a battery and you have a whole power system.
22:20.46``Erikif you can hack C and tcl, please feel free to 'fix' brlcad, yo
22:20.48louipcwhoa
22:20.51``ErikBRL-CAD rather
22:20.52tessier_Actually motors might be way cheaper now.
22:20.59``Erikbrlcad might not appreciate being fixed :>
22:21.04louipc``Erik: that does get confusing haha
22:21.07tessier_``Erik: That's another thing: I kinda wish brl-cad were scriptable in lisp or something like autocad.
22:21.12tessier_Doing things in C these days is just silly.
22:21.13``Erikoh, me too
22:21.16tessier_But I understand brlcad is very old.
22:21.18``ErikI'm a scheme geek
22:21.24``Erikbut BRL-CAD is married to tcl
22:21.37tessier_``Erik: Me too although I have never really done anythign with scheme. I've read the Little Schemer and a few other books though.
22:21.38louipctessier_: you can script in Tcl
22:21.49tessier_louipc: Yeah, tcl isn't too bad.
22:21.54``Erikthere's been talk about hooking it into 'swig', but so much of the math shtuff is macro based, it becomes undoable
22:21.54tessier_I'm just not as familiar with it.
22:22.35``ErikI'd imagine that it wouldn't be TOO terribly difficult to develope a lithp variant on tcl
22:23.01``Erikturing complete is turing complete, y'know
22:23.42louipcLinux is silly
22:23.49``Erikyour mom is silly
22:24.02louipc:O
22:24.08tessier_Maloeran: For the most part that is true. Programmer time and buffer overruns are expensive.
22:24.16``ErikC is good for low level things... *shrug* linux is a hair better than winderz, not bsd cool, but *shrug* :)
22:24.24louipca hair!
22:24.36tessier_``Erik: The vast majority of stuff is not low level.
22:24.52louipcyeah true
22:24.53``ErikI completely agree, tessier... but mal was about ready to drop a brick in his shorts there ;>
22:25.10``Erik<-- tends to use ruby or scheme as a first shot for most things these days
22:25.33tessier_``Erik: Only because he has been coding C for years and cannot appreciate how much more efficient higher level languages are because they represent a threat to the usefulness of his existing knowledge. :)
22:25.43``Erikhahaha
22:25.46``Erikuh oh
22:25.52``Erikdon't say nothin' 'bout assembly, mal will pop!
22:25.53``Erik:D
22:25.55``Erik*duck*
22:25.55tessier_Efficient in terms of programmer time (and therefore money) and darn near as efficient in terms of cpu cycles too.
22:26.17Maloerantessier_, buffer overruns is a silly programmer mistake, bad programmers shouldn't use C to begin with. Some complex tasks are actually less bothersome to perform in C, for it really lets you do what you want to do
22:26.18``Erikit's a matter of how assess value to developer time
22:26.26``Erikooooooold people tend to put a lot of value on time
22:26.31``Erikyoung folk tend to view it as 'free'
22:26.39MaloeranPlus of course, efficiency of good C code can hardly be compared with any scripting language
22:26.39tessier_Assembly is fun for understanding how architectures work and for programming microcontrollers.
22:27.17tessier_Maloeran: But programmers aren't perfect. They have been making that mistake for decades. Even the best ones.  They are inevitable.
22:28.06MaloeranIndeed. And that's why good Operating Systems have some security features, so that we won't pay a global hit in performance just in case there's a buffer overrun somewhere
22:28.20``Eriksometimes, I look at some of their stuff and go "fucking brilliant", other times, I go "wtff"
22:28.42``Erikheh, so you're using obsd these days, mal? :> *duck*
22:28.53tessier_Critical loops that get executed zillions of times can be in C and assembly. Anything else, including word processors and the like which hardly ever use cpu and spend all their time waiting on programmer input, should probably be in a higher level language.
22:29.06tessier_That goes for mail servers, dns servers, etc also. They spend all their time waiting on IO.
22:29.20``Erik:D
22:29.31tessier_Link to a C implementation of your hashtable function or whatever and do all the other silly stuff in a HLL
22:29.38MaloeranThat I agree, languages should be used for what they are best suited for. There's still much room for C out there
22:29.55louipcyep
22:30.01tessier_There's tons of room for C. But I think it is currently taking up more room than it rightfully deserves. :)
22:30.09tessier_Fortunately that is changing though.
22:30.10``Erikcode it in scheme, when you find a bit of scheme that you simply can't make fast enough, rewrite it in C... when you find a bit of C that can't possibly be rewritten to be fast enough, rewrite it in asm... if you find a bit of asm that can't possibly be rewritten to be fast enough, go back to the drawing board, yo
22:30.21tessier_``Erik: Exactly. FFI for the win!
22:30.46``Erik<-- feels that c++ and java simply don't belong... they're tools to limit the damage incompetents can do, not tools to extend the ability of competents :(
22:30.51MaloeranI usually go back to the drawing board before the assembly step, but good enough :)
22:31.14tessier_``Erik: Agreed. I don't see much good use for java. But lots of people are brainwashed with it.
22:31.18``Erik(and limited incompetence sucks compared to a little competence *cough*)
22:31.35tessier_C++ sure seemed cool way back when and even I would have agreed it was a good way to go once upon a time but I have wisened up since then.
22:31.41Maloerantessier_, I think C should be the language of choice for all core libraries and related low-level software, I'm actually worried that it's less being used for new software these days
22:31.57``Erikthere're bits of jabba I like, I think it's better than c++, but there're bits I dont' like... and in practice, it's grossly abused
22:32.04tessier_Maloeran: I guess it depends on where you draw the line for low-level.
22:32.39``Erik<-- would rather have a boffo scheme or smalltalk core library than a good C one... *shrug* :)
22:33.05``Erikmebbe I'm just sick in the head
22:33.16louipcthey force java in school
22:34.08MaloeranSometimes, even C seems too high level for me. Compilers are so incompetent, when one cares about performance
22:34.17``Erikwhen I wasi n college (the second time), the were migrating to jabba the last year I was there...
22:34.19MaloeranIt's so tempting to just get down in assembly for an instant >30% performance boost
22:34.28MaloeranI think I should do that before Siggraph
22:34.46``Erik30% with no change in linearality can't comopete with even a loss of static and improved 'big oh'
22:34.46``Erik<PROTECTED>
22:34.51tessier_Maloeran: One rarely needs to care about performance these days. A few microseconds different in my code execution time matters little to me. :)
22:35.13tessier_I tend to do a lot of text processing, system administrator type stuff, network IO, web applications, etc.
22:35.16``Erik"my assembly form outruns this high level one, up to 10 memory locations... *cough*"
22:35.22tessier_IO is always the bottleneck before cpu in my projects.
22:35.46tessier_For something like raytracing I can totally see where cpu counts.
22:36.00tessier_But few people have the need to implement raytracers.
22:36.18``Erik(mal is heavy into high speed raytracing lately)
22:37.11tessier_I see.
22:37.16``Eriktessier: if you want to make BRL-CAD work for you, we'd be happy to discuss the path from point A to point B, it's mostly a matter of A) not knowing the drafting world so well and B) not having the time to do it :/
22:37.18tessier_Maloeran: I bet you use vi. :)
22:37.27``Erikhey, shut up, I use vim :(
22:37.37tessier_``Erik: You code scheme in vim?
22:37.40``Erikyup
22:37.44tessier_I like vim just fine. Been using it for 10 years.
22:37.50tessier_But coding scheme in vim seems a bit nutty.
22:37.58``Erikthere're addons to make it better
22:38.05tessier_I learned emacs for programming tasks and use vi for everything else.
22:38.05``Erikvim has a dialect of schemme somewhere under the hood
22:38.18``Erika lot more 'normal' compared to modern languages than elithp
22:38.22tessier_It bugs me that that they wrote their own extension language for vim
22:38.41tessier_I know you can tie python and other stuff into it. But one standard extension language that everyone uses seems like a better way to go.
22:38.42louipcwell there's already sketch objects in BRL-CAD
22:38.51``Erikvim has pluggable extensions... mine are built with python, ruby, and the internal scheme/lithp
22:39.00``Erikplus cscope, and with the gui disabled
22:39.03tessier_If brl-cad doesn't work for drafting it probably isn't what I need. Although I wish I could draft and then produce a 3d model.
22:39.23tessier_So I don't have to draw everything twice.
22:39.30louipcyeah
22:39.35tessier_Wish I could draw in a speed 400 motor and then use that same dawing in both.
22:39.46``ErikBRL-CAD can do 3d models, and has something called "rtedge" that attempts to do line drawings
22:40.06``Erikit cannot do dimension lines at this time, and rtedge is... nonoptimal
22:40.38``Erikif you're just wanting something to help cut balsa and place bits, rtedge MIGHT be sufficient
22:40.52``Eriknot something that can be passed to a machine cutter though
22:41.28tessier_I'm not fortunately enough to have a machine cutter.
22:41.52tessier_But I would like something I can print 2d blueprints from. I'm not so interested in balsa as I am in composite design.
22:41.55louipcwhat needs dimensioning can be arbitrary and needs to be selected by the drafter
22:42.00tessier_I make stuff from fiberglass, carbon fiber, expoxy resin, etc.
22:42.09``Erikummmmmmmm
22:42.11``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
22:42.24tessier_2d drawings are mostly for patterns, jigs, etc. And 2d parts fitting and layout planning although 3d would be better for that.
22:42.36``Erikthat device was designed and raytraced using BRL-CAD by one of the dudes who hangs out here
22:42.51``Erikif you go to the web page, he has lots of 'rtedge' displays
22:43.10``Erikhe even found a funky race condition bug in rtedge :)
22:43.34``Erikhttp://ronja.twibright.com/
22:47.16``Erik(unfortunate that he didn't use the multispectral raytracing capabilities to optimize configuration, but *shrug* it got the job done)
22:47.44tessier_Wow, that RONJA device is really cool
22:49.26``Erikhttp://ronja.twibright.com/holder/index.php  is the output of rtedge
22:49.37``Erikwith the bug, heh
22:49.59``Erik<-- fixed it, but doesn't remember if the fix made it to 7.10.0 or not... 7.10.2 should be out 'any day now'
22:50.07``Erikif brlcad would get off his duff O.o :> *duck*
22:50.28tessier_What does rtedge do exactly?
22:50.55louipccool
22:51.03``Erikum, fires proximity rays and if the difference in first hit is above a threshold, draws a line there
22:51.50``Erikbut at the moment, the threshold is hard coded and more designed for reasonably large vehicles (like, 10m long... think tanks)
22:52.38tessier_I see.
22:52.52tessier_Ever heard of CADIA?
22:53.14``Eriksounds semi-familiar
22:53.38tessier_http://www.nextcraft.com/rcprojects.html
22:53.55tessier_Check out those models. All rendered in 3d. This guy is a master.
22:54.24``Erikhm
22:54.34``Erikummm
22:54.52``Erikone of the nifty things of brlcad is the ability to estimate CM, total mass, etc
22:57.03tessier_Yes, that could be handy
22:57.40``Erikaand there's effort to export to a FEM format, uhhh, 'qubit', which could do flow analysis
22:58.01``Erikqubit might not be public, though :/
22:58.14tessier_Total mass? So you tell it how much each of the materials weighs etc?
22:58.21louipctessier_: what's cadia?
22:59.10``Erikyes, every region can have a material associated, density of the material is defined and it can sum it all up
22:59.40tessier_http://www.nextcraft.com/nextcraft_products.html
22:59.43``ErikI think it's still all done with 'GIFT' materials, which tend to be skewed towards heavier harder things
22:59.49tessier_I think cadia is what this guy uses for his 3d models but I'm not sure.
22:59.57``Eriklike, several kinds of steel, some hard woods, don't think balsa is a standard bit
23:00.02``Erikbut could easily be added
23:00.02tessier_Can I define my own materials?
23:00.07``Erikyeah
23:00.18tessier_And units? Like draw a speed 400 motor and say it weighs this much and has a center of mass/gravity at a particular location?
23:00.35``Erikthe .g db understands ints, and there's a materials file that's ascii
23:00.41tessier_That would be pretty handy for building models.
23:01.02``Erikummm, it understands units, I dunno if you can skew like that, um, though if you defined the guts of the 400 motor, it SHOULD come out correct
23:01.30``Erikor you could make the motor otu of two cylinders (plus surface crap) and assign different 'effective mass' coefficients for the bits to emulate the correct balance
23:03.34``Erikthe only bit that might be seriously challenging would be shaped bits (nose cones, the inital scoop on the rudder, etc) and skinning :/ otherwise, most r/c planes are awfully simple
23:03.51``Erikand 'advanced' primitives like the "pipe" goes perfectly with control gear
23:04.47``Eriknaturally, the engineering of how to assemble it will be up to the model developer, but with the raytracing abilities, you could 'see' a proposed model at each step of assembly
23:06.12``Erikthere's even a 'best fit' project on the table that'd go well for laying out how to cut up planks of balsa, once it's implemented :)
23:09.54``Erikheh "spel chek"
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16:15.18pooliobrlcad: !!!!!!!!!
16:18.09pooliobrlcad:  http://poolio.org/index.php?q=node/10
16:35.41CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c): tweaks to selection. now converges on one sphere
17:20.16brlcadbetter :)
17:20.35brlcadstill not quite the right graph, but definitely better :)
17:21.02brlcadunderstandable without mutation, though
17:21.25poolioI ran it on two spheres and it didn't work out nearly as good
17:21.41pooliothe main thing I'm worried about is crossover/reproduction aren't really yielding any better solutions than in the first generation
17:21.48pooliothe average fitness is increasing but the best idnividual isn't
17:22.07poolioif I recall correctly, the best individual shouldn't converge nearly as soon as it is
17:22.13poolio(within the first, or a few generations)
17:22.47pooliokinda like a square root graph
17:24.46brlcadyep
17:25.04brlcadeven with just crossover, I'd expect the best fit to increase a few times
17:25.16poolioYeah I would too...
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18:19.37pooliowhat the heck...I broke the fitness routine again
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19:46.44Twingythis 40MHz 18F1320 runs stable at 48MHz
19:46.53Twingy2400 cosine's per second
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20:57.53elite01sounded just like an advert break, didn't it?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070730

00:10.29*** part/#brlcad bpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
01:00.15LinuxMafiahi
01:00.28LinuxMafiais there any tool in brlcad
01:00.48LinuxMafiafor designing human body?
01:01.08LinuxMafiai need to make a model of human body
01:04.26LinuxMafiabrlcad, u there?
01:21.47CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (population.c fitness.c fitness.h): final bug fixed in fitness. crossover and reproduction are stable and functional
01:30.46LinuxMafiaCIA-29, hi
01:36.39poolioCIA-29 is a bot
01:36.58poolioI'm not too familiar with modeling in brl-cad, but as far as I know there is not.
01:37.31LinuxMafiapoolio, thanks alot
03:01.55pooliobrlcad: I'm sick :\
03:02.31pooliocan I take a sick day and stay home? ;)
03:11.32tessier_LinuxMafia: Can't you get yourself a real gf?
03:11.50LinuxMafiatessier_, no
03:12.14LinuxMafiatessier_, can you do it for me plz
03:12.37tessier_LinuxMafia: Ok, next time I bang my gf I'll say "This one's for LinuxMafia!"
03:12.58LinuxMafialol
03:13.07LinuxMafiai can do it myself :P
05:00.44louipchahah
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08:05.53IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mydreamsystem.png   :)
08:13.18tessier_LinuxMafia: Mission accomplished. My gf thought I was weird but oh well. You are no longer a virgin by proxy.
08:13.30tessier_Hope it was as good for you as it was for me.
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12:36.57LinuxMafiatessier_, lol thanks alot
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15:36.12pooliobrlcad: alright, mutation is implemented for ellipsoids and the results are only slightly better
15:36.16pooliostill not getting the graph I'd expect
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16:14.50Maloeran33/deta
17:16.00LinuxMafiahi
17:16.10LinuxMafiaany one here
17:17.06LinuxMafiais there any way to export files from other 3d softwares (makehuman) into brlcad
17:17.27pooliobrlcad: I'm gonna need a better computer to test this :P
17:23.18pooliobrlcad: My program is close to melting my laptop, and there's a slow memory leak that fills up my memory after a little while
17:23.22poolio80C :\
17:23.49MaloeranWhat are you testing, poolio?
17:24.09poolioMy genetic algorithm program
17:24.22MaloeranLinuxMafia, there are several exporters to the .g format, try to find one that would be appropriate
17:24.36MaloeranAnd what is the GA looking for?
17:25.05LinuxMafiaMaloeran, thanks alot i will come back again
17:26.39MaloeranLinuxMafia, look into /usr/brlcad/bin for ply-g, dxf-g, off-g, etc.
17:27.06poolioMaloeran: a model!
17:27.23LinuxMafiaMaloeran, oh that would be great thanks alot ,
17:27.36poolioUnfortunately it's not working too well
17:28.06poolioMaloeran: It's trying to evolve a model that matches inputted voxel data
17:28.17``Erika CSG model, that is
17:28.21poolioso If you input voxel data that resembles a sphere, the GA shoudl output a sphere
17:28.27poolioYeah, CSG model :)
17:28.38MaloeranOh, I see. It's beginning to make sense
17:28.47``Erika voxel model would be a no-op and a triangle model would be pretty darn easy :)
17:28.49poolioMaloeran: poolio.org
17:28.53MaloeranWell, I can give you an user on a 8 cores box if it would help
17:29.18poolioMaloeran: It would definitely help, but for now there's much to be worked on before I go into full out testing
17:29.29poolioFor example, fixing the memory leak, implementing a few more routines, cleaning up code, etc...
17:29.37Maloeran*nods* All right then
17:29.49poolioI might have to take you up on that offer later :) My laptop is taking quite a beating
17:30.06poolioI'd ask brlcad but he's probably really busy prepping for siggraph
17:30.35MaloeranOh? I didn't know brlcad had stuff to prepare for Siggraph
17:30.47poolioI was of that opinion, but I could be wrong
17:31.03poolio``Erik might know more, or just ask brlcad when he gets back...from wherever it is he is
17:32.45MaloeranVoxels to CSG really sounds like an... annoying problem
17:33.06poolioYep :)
17:33.18MaloeranYou'll have plenty of arbitrary values to obtain your solutions. I see why you would rather let a GA do all the "hard work" :)
18:04.04CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c:
18:04.04CIA-29BRL-CAD: increase the buffer size which is useful when gdb prints out stack variables,
18:04.04CIA-29BRL-CAD: but instead of dumping the overflow to stderr, write it to the log with a note
18:04.05CIA-29BRL-CAD: that it was trimmed. only given the warning if we're debugging.
18:08.10pooliobrlcad: As far as I can tell there aren't any result-effecting bugs, and crossover reproduction and mutation are all working (for spheres)
18:08.42poolioIt still isn't doing a good job of finding a good solution though, it converges relatively early and mutation isn't yielding any significantly higher results. And sometimes mutation causes the best individual to dip slightly
18:18.56CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: initialize framename to null
19:04.57``Erikmal: to attend and mebbe do a BoF, not to present a paper or anything
19:05.43pooliosorry ``Erik :\
19:10.21CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: better handling of command-mode when the parent is forked and waiting on the done notification
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20:21.41CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/IDEAS: condensed info from ideas.html
20:29.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/.cvsignore: ignore operators.g
20:35.43pooliobrlcad: I think part of the issue might just be the nature of the CSG problem. It might require a larger population and more generations to get the desired result. With a pop size of 500 and after 200 generations, it's stuck on a decent solution, but I wouldn't really call it near-optimal
20:37.28CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/bookmarks.html: include t2 (linux) pacakge page
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20:45.33CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: credit Aldas Nabazas and Stefan Fiedler for respectively putting BRL-CAD into the Rock Linux and T2 Linux distributions as a managed package
20:46.12CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: notify t2 and rock linux package maintainers during source release
20:50.42CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: been at least a year since chuck was last active
21:05.47IriX64heh Automagically preparing build ...       :)
21:18.12IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/sys.png :)
21:51.37elite01IriX64, sure you installed the right programs to install the installation program? :)
22:56.15CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/Makefile.am: turn off new iges converter prior to release, add a bunch of files it was missing for the dist
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00:11.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:34.12LinuxMafiai need to export .bs file to .g file
00:46.37brlcad.bs?
00:49.57LinuxMafiabrlcad, hi
00:50.09LinuxMafiahi poolio
00:50.22LinuxMafiabrlcad, it is makehuman file
01:03.45CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): more items that need to be uninstalled, added since a5 to a6
01:07.09``Erikthat'd be an awesome tld
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02:10.20louipcnew release hey? :D
03:13.20brlcadlouipc: soon, making sure the dists work
03:14.11pooliobrlcad: grargh. found why my program was running fairly slow. I had ncpu hardcoded as 1...d'oh. I have 2 :)
03:15.30brlcadthat should make some difference :)
03:16.16pooliobrlcad: also, I'm currently not setting a_ray_length and am manually clipping the partitions. Can I trust a_ray_length or no? I recall you saying something about how I should just code it
03:17.31brlcadyeah, I'd just code it yourself
03:17.42brlcadyou see the picture?
03:18.06pooliowhich one? the whole explaining intersection and boudning box and crossover
03:18.33brlcadthe only picture I've made for you afair :)
03:18.41poolioyes I saw
03:19.25pooliobut I mean, there's no real way around it is there?
03:19.36brlcadthere is
03:19.53pooliohmm. lemme dig up that picture again
03:20.53brlcadyou expand your shoot grid to encompass the bounds, using the same grid sample size .. and any material found just decreases fitness by that much a ratio
03:21.21brlcadprobably not something you need to worry about, but it should probably be documented
03:21.34pooliowait, well I disagree
03:21.50poolioMaybe you only want the corner of the object
03:22.27poolioLike lets say you have a sphere, and your input geometry is the shape of a half a hemisphere. a quarter sphere? my vocabulary fails. but regardless, why should we decrease the fitness?
03:22.43poolioI mean I don't see why it matters what's outside the bounding box as long as what is inside the bounding box is correct
03:23.01poolioAh wait. d'oh. I guess it _looks_ fine in terms of voxel data but the model would be wrong. I see...
03:23.03brlcadnot following your example
03:23.21poolioWell my example is wrong
03:23.33brlcadi mean if it's a half a sphere, with a box subtracted, then the bounding box would be all misses, and youd be fine
03:24.00pooliohmm, i dont quite follow your example either
03:24.03pooliowhat I meant was this
03:24.11poolioLets say your input data was in the shape of a hemisphere.
03:24.16brlcader, my example is just the one on paper :)
03:24.18poolioNow lets say you sample a fixed bounding box
03:24.23brlcader, s/paper/picture
03:24.35brlcadokay, shape of a hemisphere
03:24.47brlcadbounding box is nice and tight around it
03:25.03poolionow lets say the GA comes up with a solution that is a sphere
03:25.12poolioand the lower half of that sphere is exactly where the input geometry is
03:25.16pooliothat sphere is a perfectly fit individual
03:25.35poolioI was thinking, "alright, that's good" but I realize that we don't want that. We need it to match the model and only the model
03:25.52brlcadright, the point is to match the input
03:26.26poolioyeah...I was just thinking matching the voxel data, and ignoring what's outside the bounding box, but yeah that's not right
03:26.53brlcadi mean, you can get away with it -- that's what I meant about it being fine for now
03:27.39brlcadif you found something that did match everything inside the box, you have a "good" solution by just intersecting the result model with the bounding box
03:27.50brlcadnot necessarily optimal, but it's good
03:27.54poolioah yeah, you could do that
03:28.31brlcadso, just document the limitation and don't worry about it :)
03:28.45poolioalright. it's quite trivial to implement though
03:28.57brlcadnah, don't both
03:28.59brlcadbother
03:29.04poolioalright
03:29.15brlcadit gets more complex
03:30.16brlcade.g. taking your example of a hemisphere.. consider one solution that has a tight-fitted box subtracting perfectly on the bounding box's edge, and another that extracts massive space but giving the same result
03:30.41brlcadtheir fitness would work out to the same if you only consider positive space, but the tight-fitting result is more desirable
03:31.52poolioyeah. that's where you'd hope the # nodes would do something. but if you have it fixed then ... nope
03:32.15poolioIf you allowed variation in #nodes, ideally it would converge on the tight-fitting one with the least amount of wasted space.
03:32.16brlcadthe number of nodes are identical in that case
03:32.23brlcadone sphere and one box being subtracted
03:32.42brlcadit's the size of the box (its efficiency as a cutting space) that matters
03:33.05poolioWell, if you include your method of shooting more rays they wouldnt be identical
03:33.14pooliooh wait
03:33.15poolioI see
03:33.16brlcadthey would
03:33.19brlcadnegative space
03:33.22poolioYeah yeah
03:33.23brlcadit's a miss
03:33.35brlcadanyways, "don't worry about it" :)
03:33.37poolioSo you could have a box that cuts from the hemisphere and goes on forever
03:33.40poolioand wastes tons of space
03:33.42brlcadright
03:33.46pooliohrmph.
03:33.58poolioI'm a bit slow and more than a bit sick, sorry :)
03:34.01brlcadthere's an easy metric in that case
03:34.15brlcadeven better than looking at the size of the csg tree
03:34.36poolioI would say size of the bounding box?
03:34.50poolio(addition of each individual object)
03:34.56brlcadnope, bigger might be better in a different case
03:34.57pooliowell not object, shape
03:35.17brlcadyou'd take the evaluation time into consideration
03:35.27brlcadhow long does it take to shoot rays at one vs the other
03:35.40brlcadsmaller trees and tighter fitting csg will naturally win
03:35.48brlcadas will more efficient primitives
03:35.58pooliohmm, good thought
03:36.14brlcadan advanced idea for later .. much later :)
03:36.38brlcadafter it's shown to work or not work on basic parts
03:36.47poolioyou'd have to rely on a stable environment though, I feel like there are a lot of factors that could throw it off
03:36.51poolioyes yes
03:37.30poolioI'm doing some code clean up now. Then I'll finish up mutation and the setting of the inclusion of certain upper/lower individuals
03:55.14poolioHmm wonderful. I spy a race condition.
04:00.51pooliosleepy time. cya brlcad
04:01.54CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r214 10/trunk/libirc/autogen.sh: update to the latest script, version 20070618 from brl-cad
04:03.59CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r215 10/trunk/libirc/COPYING: license is supposed to be LGPL, not GPL .. readme is correct but this file is wrong
04:51.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/Makefile.am m4/restore.m4):
04:51.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: autogen.sh no longer creates .backup files in an aux directory, so there's
04:51.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: nothing for us to automatically recover from. this means subsequent clobbering
04:51.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: automakes may blow away our files, but there's not much we can do about it.
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06:31.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: minor dead code
07:12.33CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r216 10/trunk/libirc/m4/ (. args.m4 cache.m4 mkdirp.m4 search.m4 stage.m4): add a bunch of boilerplate m4 macros to simplify the configure logic a bit
07:13.36CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r217 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: be sure that aclocal searches in the m4 dir for macros, require automake 1.6 and generate all dist formats
07:15.33CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r218 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: update to better configure logic, using bc and bz as example
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07:30.19CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/patch.m4 m4/Makefile.am): turn the libtool chunk that patches libtool if it has the -all_load bug on Mac OS X into an m4 macro, BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL
07:35.33CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r219 10/trunk/libirc/misc/ (Makefile.am Makefile.defs): import brl-cad's nifty noprod rules
07:37.17CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r220 10/trunk/libirc/m4/ (Makefile.am patch.m4): bring over BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL too, and add the m4 files to the dist
07:40.39CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r221 10/trunk/libirc/ (Makefile.am configure.ac): use BC_PATCH_LIBTOOL, add m4 to the build path
07:48.12CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac m4/compiler.m4): move the sanity check to a BC_SANITY_CHECK macro
07:49.18CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r222 10/trunk/libirc/ (configure.ac m4/Makefile.am m4/compiler.m4): import BC_SANITY_CHECK
07:54.46CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/m4/args.m4: add support for --with-cxxflags
07:54.57CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r223 10/trunk/libirc/m4/args.m4: add --with-cxxflags
07:55.59CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r224 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: condense the 32 or so lines down to one for the standard --with overrides via BC_WITH_FLAG_ARGS
08:03.55CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r225 10/trunk/libirc/include/net.h: can't have anonymous typedef types used as parameters
08:16.33CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r226 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidServer/src/Makefile.am: fix minor copy-paste typo, should be stupidServer not stupidBot
08:17.10CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r227 10/trunk/libirc/ (14 files in 13 dirs): propagate Makefile.defs throughout so that the recursive noprod rule works
08:21.28CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r228 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: er, we're using svn for libirc, so check that when determining whether to enable/disable automatic dependency tracking
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08:29.30CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r229 10/trunk/libirc/src/Makefile.am: bunch of files added/changed since this was first written, update to match current
08:30.52CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r230 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: you still can't take a reference to a temporary anonymous type, also fix the handful of erase iterators
08:33.53CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r231 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (irClientCommands.cpp irClientEvents.cpp): more instances of trying to take a reference to a temporary
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08:37.51CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r232 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): s/loger/logger/, and fix scope on the default loggers so they don't run into each other in the library. libIRC is now compilation-functional again.
08:42.06CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r233 10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/src/simpleIRCConnect.cpp: yet another ref to temp, all examples compile now too
09:07.22CIA-29libirc: 03brlcad * r234 10/trunk/libirc/ (8 files in 8 dirs): ... and now libIRC even successfully passes a make distcheck again ... ship it!
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12:54.00MaloeranAhah, that was really pathetic of me. I reserved my flight tickets for Siggraph in the month of July rather than August
12:59.39Laniakeabrlcad: where is the workplace where BRL-CAD is created actually physically based?
13:18.30``Erikheh, woops
13:18.54``Eriklaniakea: what do you mean?
13:19.30``Erikoh, the physical location of the original (some most of the current) developers
13:20.11Laniakealet's say that yes
13:20.27``Erikat the top of every C file should be a 'source' block...
13:20.42``Eriksomething like this
13:20.43``Erik<PROTECTED>
13:20.43``Erik<PROTECTED>
13:20.43``Erik<PROTECTED>
13:49.41brlcadnot any more on latest head, though not comprehensively reoved either
13:50.57``Erikhrm? you removed the source entries? O.o
13:54.16brlcadphone numbers and addresses, particularly the ones that were no longer valid
13:54.42``Erikah, city/state should still be ok though
13:54.50``Erik(I pulled that from bu fgets.c
13:54.51``Erik)
13:55.11brlcadthe zip has changed over the years
13:56.03brlcadyeah, in general it's still okay, but it still the entire premise
13:56.23brlcada "location" source for something that eventually/often has multiple distributed authors
13:57.11``Eriktrue, but it'd be nifty to search the source for valid location info and generate a developer map, like debian and fbsd have
13:57.29brlcadthose origins can be (and are) documented elsewhere, the code doesn't necessarily need to reflect that, particularly when they're often wrong
13:57.37``Erika la http://www.debian.org/devel/developers.loc
13:58.11brlcadyes, but then afaik they don't generate those maps off of their sources
13:58.16brlcadtheir devs say where they are at
13:58.20``Erikno, the developers submit
13:58.21``Erikyeah
13:58.26``Eriksame with the bsd one
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15:05.25``Erikfreakin' vacuum always tripping the freakin' circuit breaker
15:06.06archivistIve seen bad breakers as well
15:09.25``Erikhum, there're two heavy computer users on this one breaker... I have 3 machines and 4 monitors, the other guy has about the same...
15:09.58``Erik(overcrowded and organized to siloize based on role...)
15:10.40``Erikinteresting, configures search for system tk fails if there's no valid display to connect to
16:26.46LinuxMafiahi
16:26.54LinuxMafiabrlcad, u here?
16:27.17LinuxMafiai need to export makehuman files into brlcad
16:28.32brlcadi'm usually here
16:28.37brlcadi just might not answer if i'm busy :)
16:28.47LinuxMafiaoh ok
16:28.52LinuxMafiabrlcad, cool
16:28.59LinuxMafiado you know makehuman?
16:29.06brlcadyou need something that reads makehuman files or you'll need to scrtip/code something yourself
16:29.06poolioI think makehuman files aren't standard
16:29.31pooliobrlcad: I woke up this morning by walking into my bathroom and stepping on a humongous hornet. stung me right at the ball of my middle toe. :(
16:30.23brlcadLinuxMafia, what are their export formats?  find one that matches one of BRL-CAD's importers
16:30.40brlcadpoolio... ouch!
16:30.46brlcadthat had to hurt
16:31.04brlcadmakes my hairs stand up just thinking about it
16:31.07LinuxMafiabrlcad, it is .bvs
16:31.13LinuxMafia.bs*
16:33.16pooliobrlcad: it's still throbbing. makes it hard to concentrate on code :\ oh well.
16:34.32brlcadLinuxMafia: I understand that -- that's their format
16:34.38brlcadpretty much nothing reads their format
16:34.50poolioLinuxMafia: is there a way to export a makehuman file as another format?
16:34.53brlcadso you'll have to export it in makehuman to a format that others understand
16:35.04LinuxMafiabrlcad, and there is also objects , but i dont know how to make that
16:35.12brlcada quick look through their site shows that they export obj format, which is pretty simple
16:35.30brlcadthough we only have an obj exporter, not an importer at the moment..
16:35.43brlcadso you'd still have to use some intermediary tool or write an obj importer
16:36.28LinuxMafiabrlcad, how about export it into blender
16:36.39LinuxMafiaand from there to brlcad
16:36.47brlcadyou can export to obj, then import obj to blender, sure
16:37.29LinuxMafiabrlcad, then brlcad can read that ?
16:37.34brlcadthen export from blender to dxf or ply or stl, or several other import formas
16:37.39pooliobrlcad: any tips on learning how to properly profile software?
16:37.54LinuxMafiaoh got it now
16:37.57brlcadpoolio, yes, get a good profile :)
16:38.01brlcader, profiler
16:38.19poolioany suggestions?
16:38.56brlcaddepends heavily on which platform and what sort of profiling -- mac os x's chud tools are currently some of the best all around (shark in particular)
16:39.03poolioI'm doing some general code clean up and was just trying to see if there was anything I could do to speed it up. I mean, I can see certain parts of the code and fix it that way, but there's no good reason to try to optimize stuff until i've profiled
16:39.11pooliobrlcad: I'm under linux
16:39.12brlcadgprof is pretty run of the mill, and a good starting point
16:39.21poolioIf you'd like me to send me a new macbook pro I could profile with that :)
16:39.23brlcadnot a great profiler, but enough to get you going
16:39.30brlcadheh
16:39.43poolioI'd even sacrifice a bit and take your old one :)
16:40.56brlcadI have several old vaio's that I'd loan ya ;)
16:41.21brlcadbut then it's probably an order slower than what you have :)
16:42.04brlcadbeautiful notebooks though, first sub-1" sub-10lbs notebook
16:42.06poolioyar. my laptop's reasonably fast. Just has been having some heat and battery issues recently. I'm now only getting ~1 hour and it gets up to 80C when I test out my software
16:42.15pooliosub-10lbs. haha
16:42.59brlcad~convert 1.4 kilograms to pounds
16:43.07brlcadsorry, sub-3lbs :)
16:43.36pooliohaha. yeah
16:43.46brlcadabout 10 years old now
16:43.49poolioI was thinking about getting a new ultraportable for college but it's a lot of cash and I'll survive with what I've got now
16:43.55poolioThat's impressive for that time
16:46.20pooliobrlcad: I may have asked you this already, but out of curiousity, what do you do most of your coding in?
16:47.25brlcademacs
16:47.45poolioheh. never could get used to emacs. been using vim forever
16:47.56brlcadI hunkered down for a week after coding for several years with other editors (pico, vi, ..)
16:48.12brlcadand never went back
16:48.24poolioany particular reason?
16:49.44brlcadwell, particularly because once you get over that learning curve for the default bindings, it really is more efficient, imo, over vim and just about everything else out there
16:50.18brlcadi mean, putting equal effort into both for a month, someone in emacs will end up being more proficient
16:50.49brlcadand not just for the editing, but the other facilities that emacs brings as an integrated development environment
16:51.36poolioyeah, that was one of my main reasons that I stopped. I like having my text editor just be a text editor, and I work by opening up multiple terminals and editing a file in vim in each of them, another window compiling. It's just a habit
16:52.03brlcadthere are some things that vim works very well for even over emacs, but for long-term coding emacs is specifically built for it
16:52.23brlcadyeah, and I used to say the same .. you grow habits
16:52.33brlcadand those habits staple your preferences to what you already know
16:53.35brlcadin the end, it's just a tool and will boil down to the developer's proficiency with that tool -- but that's where I say that after equal investing, your emacs user will generally be far more proficient in the long run
16:55.03LinuxMafiabrlcad, how about .mtl?
16:55.30brlcadlike I said, I fought it for years -- even after seeing in college that 90% of the "best" coders in the upperclassmen above me were all proficient emacs users (with about 9% using vi, and 1% using something else) -- but then I hunkered down for a solid week (which turned into two) and said I'd give it an honest chance
16:56.02brlcadand with a cheat-sheet beside me for days, I worked through the tutorials, learned the bindings, and then lightbulbs started going off
16:56.13brlcadLinuxMafia: ls -la /usr/brlcad/bin/*-g
16:56.18brlcadthose are the importers
16:56.25brlcadno more, no less :)
16:56.34LinuxMafiathanks alot
16:58.26pooliobrlcad: lightbulbs? really? I'll have to give it a go then
16:59.49brlcadpoolio: it wasn't until about a week of non-stop use, constantly referring to a cheat sheet while I learned, but yes it did eventually happen
17:00.37brlcadit's still not a panacea, every environment has it's limitations
17:00.45poolioMy main thing was the key combos were awkward and I didn't bother to change them
17:00.56brlcadI would suggest NOT changing them
17:01.20brlcadlearning the defaults is important for reasons that won't matter for quite a while, but eventually will matter
17:01.21poolioget used to awkwardly twisting your fingers?
17:01.46brlcaddo you know how to type?
17:01.51poolionot well
17:02.15brlcadhm, then it might seem awkward for some combos I suppose if you use the wrong fingers
17:02.39brlcadnot well as in you don't touch type or you just don't touch type fast?
17:02.53poolioWell, mainly the ctrl+ things. The ctrl on my laptop kbd is not the lower left, Fn is lower left, it's to the right of that. So it's kind of awkward. and I never use the lower right shift/ctrl keys
17:03.12poolioI don't touch type fast and I don't make full use of the keyboard
17:03.22brlcadah
17:04.08brlcadwell hitting lower-left control is probably just familiarity, my left pinky hits it without hesitation
17:04.25brlcadi vaguely remember it being awkward the first week too, had to get some muscle memory
17:04.41pooliohehe. yeah maybe I'll have some time to learn later on
17:05.25brlcadlearning to use esc for meta instead of alt was another, using ctrl-n,p,f,b for traversal, and a few others
17:06.10brlcadat the time seemed like torture, but then after the familiarity curve, the efficiency (particularly compared to modal editing in vim) was rather blatent after a couple weeks
17:06.12poolioesc for meta? weird
17:06.25brlcadesc is meta
17:06.39poolioi always use alt for meta
17:06.46brlcadesc is a modal meta
17:06.51poolioah
17:07.04brlcadand considerably more portable
17:07.47brlcadalt generally only works well on x86
17:08.07brlcadwhich over the years became important on many occasions
17:08.44brlcadeven recently, as that portability extends to keycodes through ssh/terminal sessions for different platforms/environments
17:10.45brlcadanyhow, there's going to be no convincing unless you actually dedicate that week (or more) of your coding life with an unbiased open mind before you'd start to see what all the fuss has been about
17:11.12poolioyes yes. it's also possible after that week or two I stll won't like it. It's all about personal preference in the end
17:11.21brlcadthat is true
17:14.23brlcadthough I can say that of several experienced coder friends which have gone through the exercise, the result has thusfar been them either giving up before the week ends or they convert
17:15.57brlcadit's also an interesting trend that you rather frequently see coders that convert from vim, pico, or whatever to emacs ... but you rarely ever see an emacs coder convert to anything else
17:18.43pooliocause they're close minded ;)
17:19.36brlcadcould be
17:20.04brlcadbut then I don't think it'd be so much a trend
17:20.56archivistIve stuck at vi or syn on windows
17:20.57brlcadI've seen several editors that would give emacs a run for it's money if I were a full-time java developer, for example
17:22.11brlcadi think it's more just ease of use, vi is pretty simple to use, fairly simple to learn .. low barrier to entry so you can get fairly proficient in the environment
17:22.37``Erikvi strusfrates me almost as much as emacs :)
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18:41.05pooliosome people qre quite impatient
18:41.19``Erikyes, I am
18:42.06LinuxMafiabrlcad, i finnally succed
18:42.07``ErikI was sitting in a machine room with a summer intern trying to figure out if we were in the right machien room and what exactly she was supposed to do O.o ended up calling him :)
18:42.40pooliohaha :)
18:43.48``Eriknow I'm back in my comfortable office reading about the latest kernel schedulers while that poor kid is typing the names of a jazillion beta tapes into a spreadsheet or something :)
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18:43.51``Erik++evil
18:44.35dtidrowmoi?
18:47.45``Erikno, me :)
18:50.26dtidrowah
18:50.45pooliohehe.
18:50.59poolio``Erik: is that how they treat summer interns at ARL?
19:00.34``Erikwell, usually the intern projects are a bit cooler
19:01.45``Eriklast year (or was it year before), we had a coder doing something for scripting abstraction, had a couple kids doing a survey of different 3d model generation devices (laser scanners, GPS toucharms, etc), one kid made a fairly detailed model of a residential house, ...
19:02.20``Eriknot sure where the 'catalog ancient media' came from *shrug*
19:03.00poolioyeah. that sucks
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21:18.05CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: fixed race condition
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21:54.48brlcadno way, her project is pretty cool
21:55.18CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c beset.h fitness.h population.h): now able to keep an upper % of population and kill a lower %. general code cleanup.
21:56.00brlcadif I could drop this code project, I'd happily do what she's tasked with .. catalogging is just some prep work, the task is to rummage through a ton of historic video (of pretty significant importance) and convert them to digital
21:56.40brlcadone of them is the very first animation ever made with brl-cad, for example
21:56.46pooliocool
21:56.51brlcadthe first "real time" ray-tracing video,
21:56.55archivisthopefully before the media dies
21:57.02pooliois pop_rand [0,1] or (0,1) ?
21:57.41brlcadarchivist: excatly, I'm already worried that they're starting to degrade
21:57.46poolioarchivist: quite the appropriate name
21:58.36archivistI did some work on 1/2" BW on Sony tape recorders and failed
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21:59.23brlcadthere's content on old u-matic tapes, master broadcast tapes, betacam sp, some of the 'newer' of vhs, old film reels, actual old raw data reels even
21:59.47archivistearly video has two basic types one likes to be cold and damp the other likes warm and dry
22:00.20archivistdont ask me which is which though
22:03.02archivistI had a discussion with the archivist at the uk national photography museum about the subject and its evil as the coating comes off and sticks to the video heads
22:03.49archivistumatic may well be ok as by that time things had improved
22:06.42brlcadyeah, this stuff is only 20 years old or newer and has been mostly very very well kept
22:07.17brlcad5-10 more years and it could eaily be a very different story
22:08.04dtidrow_workgood luck with that stuff, would hate to have it lost
22:08.33brlcadsome of them naturally "look pretty old" ala 1980's tron graphics quality, but it's still pretty impressive stuff for some of the videos
22:09.02dtidrow_workheh - Tron was cutting-edge back then  ;-)
22:09.09brlcadi've had it high on my todo for many years (as well as going through GB's of Mike's data)
22:10.16brlcadgetting a student to just get that list of the content, and particularly finding where the *master* copies are .. as there are often a dozen copies in 4 different formats
22:10.48dtidrow_workah, the joys of rummaging through old stuff  :-)
22:10.55brlcadtron rocks, I'd pay someone to build me a faithful csg lightcycle
22:10.59pooliobrlcad: shoulda sicked me on that, woulda been more useful :)
22:11.13brlcadpoolio: too easy for you :)
22:11.24pooliohaha. yeah right.
22:11.54brlcadthough the whole digital editing/remastering could be really fun, color correction, repairs
22:13.06pooliowriting a GA to correct the reels
22:13.15brlcadheh
22:13.31poolioRemoving the noise
22:13.32poolio:)
22:13.52brlcadactually an easier problem space :)
22:14.05pooliomuch.
22:14.36dtidrow_workheh
22:20.24archivistI might cheat I have a realtime video noise reducer
22:20.39poolioI wrote something along those lines for an SLO last summer
22:23.22pooliobrlcad: wait wahhhhhhhhhh did i do wrong
22:25.12pooliobrlcad: I'm using them cause it's run in parallel...and I'm changing the variable...right?
22:25.15poolioI'm probably wrong.
22:25.39brlcadthere's a variety of ways they can be used
22:26.03brlcadi honestly don't know .. i just glanced for all of 30 seconds to notice that it seemed 'different' on the surface
22:26.08poolioWell, it waits for the semaphore to be available, then does whatever it needs to
22:26.18pooliodifferent from what?
22:26.21pooliofrom normal usage?
22:26.24brlcadwhich isn't to say that it's right, wrong, or beautifully creative, or a PoS :)
22:26.30pooliook ok :)
22:26.44pooliobrlcad: are you just giving it a look over? any tips/suggetions/etc... are vastly appreciated
22:27.36brlcadi didn't go that deep just yet
22:27.52brlcadit was just a glance as I processed other e-mail :)
22:27.55brlcadsorry
22:27.59poolioah I see. the commits :)
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23:27.39pooliobrlcad: so I have everything implemented in terms of spheres and I'm not satisfied with the results. Any ideas?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070801

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070801

00:09.57brlcadpoolio: yes, profile (gprof), valgrind, write isolated unit test cases (that just test ONE function), and then polish your code
00:10.34brlcadthose four steps should reveal at least a few issues if not many (particularly the isolated unit tests and valgrind)
00:14.42poolioWell, I don't think there is really an issue. I can't see anything is wrong. Speed is something that I could look at with profiling, but as far as I can see it's working fine, the algorithm just isn't doing too great
00:15.02brlcadit's not to find an issues, that's just due diligence on any code
00:15.28poolioWait, so you're saying I should profile anyway?
00:15.37brlcadall code could ideally have all four of those cases written.. and they very OFTEN do uncover entirely unexpected issues
00:15.41brlcadyep
00:15.51poolioalright. I'll get on that.
00:16.58brlcadplus it's just good a exercise to get proficient in, particularly if you've never done it
00:17.24brlcadthe configure option --enable-profile will turn on the gprof profile flag
00:17.42brlcaduse that with debugging symbols enabled
00:18.21brlcadthen run gprof and your program name in the dir with the gmon.out log and it'll generate a report -- see the web for some tutorials, manpage for docs, etc .. there are a lot of options
00:18.52brlcadundoubtedly, it will be spending a ton of time in the ray evaluation routines as you're very much cpu-bound, but there could be some surprises
00:18.57poolioalrighty. there's still some code clean up that I may do first, but that sounds good.
00:19.20brlcadi'd suggest running valgrind before doing gprof
00:19.27pooliobut I mean shouldn't I still be going for getting better results out of the GA?
00:19.46brlcadthis will be a good "breather" for a day or two :)
00:19.49pooliobrlcad: yeah the issue with valgrind is it seperates the reports with each thread
00:20.00poolioheh, dont have time for a breather :)
00:20.05brlcadso run it single threaded first :)
00:20.34brlcadthere's a few things it'll likely report in librt itself that don't clean up on exit, and those are known/can be ignored
00:20.53pooliok
00:21.11brlcadotherwise it should be nearly a clean/empty report
00:22.09brlcadthere should be zero "definitely lost" leaks
00:22.21brlcadeven in system libs
00:23.49poolio==14776== ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 17 from 1)
00:37.24``Erikwhat's left on the 7.10.2 checklist, yo?
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01:19.12louipcis there a point where you'll check that it builds nicely before release?
01:20.29louipcI'd like to check if it works on archlinux, last time it didn't work so I didn't update the pkg. I didn't feel like patching it from heh. :/
01:47.59pooliobrlcad: I don't think my timer is fast enough...?
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09:34.20Laniakeamsg -lugs tarzeau do you wear contact lenses?
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10:01.43Laniakeaomg
10:11.55pooliomorning?
10:11.56tarzeauLaniakea: sometimes?
10:12.03tarzeauLaniakea: you got an irc problem?
10:13.53Laniakeatarzeau: no I left out the /
10:14.17Laniakeatarzeau: see query
10:14.22Laniakea(on lugs)
10:26.00Laniakeatarzeau: do you see my query? You are not responding
10:26.12tarzeauwait
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13:37.01``Eriklouipc: the last step before release is to take the candidate tarball to a slew of os/arch combos and make sure it compiles, runs benchmark, and does a fistful of things in mged... which I *THINK* is what brlcad is sorta doing now
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14:27.06CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/ (Makefile.am tkCanvBezier.c): actually remove tkCanvBezier.c as it's no longer used
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15:57.48pooliobrlcad: is there a way to identify what data structure is eating away at the memory?
15:58.05poolioLike I know I have a memory leak somewhere I'm just having a hard time finding it by hand
16:02.17brlcaddepends on the nature of the leak -- if it is a true leak, valgrind should have found it
16:03.04brlcadwhat was the rest of valgrind's report -- errors aren't the only part
16:05.14pooliomemcheck whines about stuff internal to librt
16:05.45poolioOh woah, it changed since the last time I ran it
16:06.30pooliohmm. I have a bunch of definitely lost bytes :\
16:15.56``Erikif valgrind and boehm don't find them, they're still reachable by something in the frame stack
16:16.57pooliowell valgrind found some
16:17.03pooliobut it doesn't make senes
16:17.04poolioe
16:19.37poolio``Erik: http://rafb.net/p/eCHfmb31.html
16:20.26brlcadmight not make sense but i've yet to see valgrid be wrong :)
16:20.26poolioIt's saying that rt_init_resource is leaking, but I rt_clean the resources for sure...
16:20.58poolioYeah yeah
16:20.58brlcadthat one is known
16:21.08poolioalright, so that's all normal?
16:21.10brlcadthe ptbl ones can be ignored
16:21.39brlcadthere is no counterpart to rt_init_resource
16:21.47brlcadso items it allocated are never freed
16:21.56poolioWell that's a big issue
16:22.09poolioBecause I re-allocate resources every time I raytrace a new individual
16:22.25pooliowhat about rt_clean_resource() ?
16:22.34brlcadthat should be fine, it releases if you call init again
16:22.53poolioso I don't need to run rt_clean_resources() ?
16:23.50brlcadno, you should
16:24.31poolioOk, and what about the rt_gettree one?
16:24.58brlcadthere could be a leak in rt_clean_resources(), I'll look into it
16:25.07brlcadthat's one that shouldn't be there
16:25.36poolioI'm calling it so much, the leaks just get bigger and bigger
16:25.48brlcadyou've not freed the item from rt_gettree() I believe
16:27.29poolioWell, I rt_gettree() into some rtip, and I rt_free_rti() that rtip. So shouldn't that take care of it?
16:28.23pooliobrlcad:  and this? http://rafb.net/p/vhqFb112.html
16:28.50brlcadnow that's a huge leak
16:28.56poolioshouldn't rt_free_rti() take care of that too?
16:29.52poolioI feel like there's something I need to do with the rtip besides rt_free_rti()
16:29.58brlcadin general, no -- rt_free_rti only free's the rti itself, not objects the rti holds
16:30.16brlcadas there can be multiple instances and other issues at play
16:31.01poolioah alright. So I need to somehow free the structures rt_gettree() creates as well as rt_prep() ?
16:32.42brlcaddon't know for sure for these two cases, so I'm looking -- you take the big one, i'll take the little one :)
16:33.38poolioalrighty
16:33.42brlcadit could be a librt leak with certain calling order or some free not being called that your code needs to be doing, hard to say without tracing the leak
16:34.11brlcadmake no assumptions, just follow the memory and read the code that relates to it
16:34.25pooliok
16:37.23brlcader, are you used CVS head?
16:37.34poolioyeah
16:37.39brlcadhmm.. my line numbers aren't matching yours
16:37.56poolioHmm, haven't updated for a little while
16:38.06poolioguess I can do that
16:38.30brlcadlet me know if db_tree.c updates
16:40.12brlcadlouipc: I've got clean builds so feel free to test and let me know if you have build issues on your end
16:41.03brlcad``Erik: i've not got a solaris on hand if you want to test them out
16:41.31pooliobrlcad: yeah it changed
16:41.52pooliobrlcad: Ah, I think it's that I hadn't updated since you changed the copyright comments last week
16:42.06brlcadahh, okay
16:42.15brlcadthat sounds about right offset-wise
16:42.27brlcadnew report would be good to see
16:43.40poolioah wait
16:43.46poolioI need to recompile dont I
16:47.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (fitness.c population.c population.h): more mutation support and cosmetics
16:47.59brlcadyup
16:48.31pooliothis is gonna take a while :)
16:51.27pooliogrargh what did I break?
16:51.28pooliomake: *** No rule to make target `m4/restore.m4', needed by `Makefile.in'.  Stop.
16:59.02pooliofixed.
16:59.12pooliobrlcad: even with rt_clean() I get the memory leaks
16:59.45poolioWhich doesn' tmake sense, it looks like rt_clean() frees _all_ the dynamic structures inside of the rtip.
17:03.08MaloeranValgrind, boehm... Personally, I found that the best tool to investigate memory leaks is a wrapper around malloc/free/realloc
17:05.15MaloeranBRL-CAD of course has an interface on top of these, but I haven't looked if it can be used to trace leaks
17:08.56Maloeran( The pseudo-function to get addresses of calling functions, useful for such debugging, is a GCC extension though )
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17:20.46``Erikboehm is a wrapper that stubs in place of malloc/free/realloc/calloc
17:24.04brlcadlibbu does have it's own memory bounds checking that works pretty well
17:24.41``Erikbounds, yes, but does it retain alloc lists and look for 'forgotten' bits?
17:25.09brlcadi tend to prefer valgrind's even over the *alloc/free wrappers though as it generally does a much better job and often detects things that other approaches won't/can't
17:25.49``Erikvalgrind seems pretty married to leenewx, though
17:26.00``Erikefence, boehm, ccmalloc, dmalloc... those're pretty portable
17:28.43brlcadsushi:~/brlcad morrison$ ./a.out 300120 malloc     20 alloc 300128 free          free
17:28.46brlcadERROR bu_free(x300128, free) pointer bad, or not allocated with bu_malloc!  Ignored.
17:29.27``Erikah, so bu keeps its own malloc info ontop of the system malloc info
17:29.39``Erik*ponder*
17:30.01``Erikfree(bu_malloc()-bumallocstructsize); hehehehe
17:30.13brlcadhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2661afe4
17:31.50``Erik<-- gonna build sunos 5.8 using gnu toolchain first, then if that works, try sunwpro
17:32.06brlcadsounds good, what I usually do too
17:32.26brlcadcause if sunwpro doesn't work, not a big deal .. so long as one of the two does easily
17:33.03brlcadand if it just requires a few tweaks, it can always be annotated in doc/README.Solaris
17:34.27IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/castle.png
17:34.30IriX64:)
17:34.57``Eriknow back in the day, it was a beefy machine... I must be gettin' spoiled, dual 450mhz usparcIIi just seems sssssooooooo ssssssllllllooooooowwwwwwww
17:35.01brlcadthe reason valgrind tends to do better than the wrappers is why it's (unfortunately) linux-specific .. performance counters and other low-level issue
17:35.09``Erik*nod*
17:35.13``Erikum
17:35.19``Erikthere's one in chud, right?
17:35.27``Eriknot bigtop, um, ... hrm, not saturn I don't think
17:35.30brlcadyeah, it's not too shabby either
17:35.39``Erikthe frankenstein one?
17:35.44brlcadyeah, something like that
17:35.48brlcadtwo of them actually
17:35.54brlcadone that watches cocoa memory allocations
17:36.00brlcadanother that watches all allocations
17:36.02``Erik<-- has used shark and the ogl profiler, not the others really
17:36.11``Erikand shark usually from the command line
17:36.17brlcadi've only used it a couple times to notice that it was pretty cool
17:36.28brlcadshark from the command line .. o.O
17:36.30``Erikshark -i ./myprog ; open *mshark
17:36.36brlcadah, heh
17:37.11pooliobrlcad: any luck?
17:37.41brlcadpoolio: was waiting on the new report, or did I miss it?
17:37.52pooliohehe, it's on the way, one sec
17:37.55brlcadso line numbers match up
17:37.59poolioyeah sorry
17:38.07pooliomake just finished :\
17:38.09brlcadpretty sure I see the offsets, but I'd rather not guess
17:41.19pooliorawr! I set the wrong prefix and now I have to rebuild. d'oh
17:42.04brlcadhehe
17:42.09brlcadyou don't have to install
17:42.16brlcadyou can run in place
17:42.42brlcadjust have to be sure to wrap correctly so it doesn't pick up installed libs
17:44.09poolioyeah but I already uninstalled previous
17:44.18poolioand I'd like to have it installed
17:44.28poolioso I'll just do some more code clea up
17:45.45brlcadgah, silly system doesn't have a functional 64-bit libX11, but *does* have functional 64-bit libGL
17:45.56brlcadthat's really fscked up
17:46.53``ErikO.o
17:46.54pooliocan 64bit libGL even function without a 64bit X11?
17:47.09``Erikif it has another display path, sure
17:52.09``Erikhah
17:52.15``Erik"Frist Post!!!11eleven!!!1"
17:54.33brlcadhm, probably just need to make the OGL interface check for both ogl and x11 since it's really x11-specific
17:56.26poolioahhhhhhhhhhhh
17:56.30pooliomy laptops at 83C
17:56.35pooliomy legs burn.
17:59.37``Erikman, that pastebin sucks, it doesn't have  syntax highlighting for uh.. uhhhhh.... uhhhhhhhh.... erlang!
17:59.50pooliohaha
17:59.51``Erik(damn that's a lot of highlighting options)
18:00.24brlcadheh
18:00.32pooliobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/w7nvet33.html
18:02.19brlcadthx
18:02.29``Erikhum, no captcha, wonder how long before it starts seeing spam
18:03.24brlcadyeah figured id just see how long it takes
18:16.56``Erikinto liboptical on solaris with the gnu chain
18:35.58pooliobrlcad: I really fail to see why when using rt_clean() there's still a memory leak according to valgrind
18:59.41pooliobrlcad: it's also giving me a lot of whining about unitialized values that are for sure initialized
19:00.50brlcadexample of one?
19:01.48poolio==20025== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s)
19:01.48poolio==20025==    at 0x491F397: __printf_fp (in /lib/i686/cmov/libc-2.5.so)
19:01.55poolio...
19:02.07poolio==20025==    by 0x8049578: main (beset.c:170)
19:02.47poolioAnd 27 more of those same contexts
19:03.12IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.10.1.png  :)
19:03.28pooliobrlcad: Can I just pastebin the whole output?
19:03.30``Erikthat smells like gnu suckism
19:03.37brlcadpoolio: yes please
19:04.25pooliobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/JlQa3L28.html
19:05.42poolioAll of the still reachable blocks are leaked I think
19:10.59poolioAlright, but there's still massive memory leaks somewhere
19:11.16poolioI think the amount of memory leaked is proportional to the population size
19:11.20pooliothat doesn't help much though
19:12.06``Erikline 556 seems to be the biggy
19:12.47poolioYou mean 566?
19:12.55pooliobrlcad said 556 was known
19:12.57``Erikyes, sorry
19:13.07``Erikthe gettree stuff
19:13.12poolioyeah
19:13.20poolioshouldn't rt_clean() properly free that stuff? it looked like it did
19:14.07``Erikman, solaris is wigging out my nfs server here, heh
19:15.50``Erikhuh, why is it count+1? (
19:16.41pooliowhere?
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19:19.02poolio``Erik: oh, it includes the current node as part of the count so that it plays nicely with db_count_tree_nodes
19:19.24``Erikah
19:19.58poolio``Erik: were you referencing the return 1+n1+n2?
19:21.28``Eriksrc/librt/tree.c:233 :)
19:22.06poolioaha! so that's never being free'd?
19:22.37``Erikprep has some free's around there, mebbe it's missing those cases
19:23.53``Erikare you calling rt_clean() or rt_del_regtree() ?
19:24.01pooliort_clean()
19:24.03``Erikhrm, ye syou are
19:24.45``Eriklibrt/prep.c:891 should be taking care of that :/
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19:26.42``Erikahhh, the +1 is to dump in a null terminator
19:28.00``Erikhummmm
19:28.55``Erikyou might hack up librt, have a static counter initialized to zero, inc it in tree.c and dec it in prep.c and after the rt_clean, see what that # is, then set it to 0 if you'r egoing to make another pass?
19:29.02poolioBut still, try running the program, it goes crazy with memory, talking a couple hundred megs
19:29.37poolio``Erik: hmm worth a shot, I'll have a go
19:29.38``Erikto see if you're alloc'ing different amounts? it may be that you get a failed alloc in the middle of the alloc loop, and the dealloc stops at the fail instead of the end?
19:31.13``Erikthat's only 650k, it lists 420 megs as still reachable at the end
19:31.20``Erikheh, accidently msg'd that to brlcad
19:33.39poolioyeah, the 420megs it's what's messed up
19:33.42pooliolet me re-run valgrind
19:33.57``Erikif it's reachable, valgrind won't magically find it
19:34.05``ErikI mean, you grok what it means, right?
19:36.29pooliogrok?
19:38.10``Erikunderstand... really well...
19:39.46poolioreachable means there's still a pointer to it but it wasn't freed at exit, right?
19:41.59pooliobrlcad/``Erik: it looks like the big memory leak is also related to the bu_ptbl_init
19:49.46``Erikwell, it's free'd at exit() (or, rather, _exit() or whatever exit() calls)
19:50.15poolioyeah the issue is it fills up my memory during run-time and I need to free it before exit()
19:50.20``Erikbut it means that there is still a legitimate way to get to that allocated data via the current stack, globals, or statics
19:50.33``ErikI'd hope you're not using globals or statics
19:50.46pooliommmmmaayyyyyyybeeeee
19:50.49``ErikI thought you had to free it between iterations
19:50.57pooliofree what?
19:51.02poolioWell yes
19:51.06pooliothat'd be true, during iterations
19:51.07``Erikthe mountains of iteration specific data? :)
19:51.10poolio*in-between as you said
19:51.31``Erikhaving reachable data at exit() isn't a bad thing
19:51.52``Erikno modern OS has system leaks from os space anymore, I think an early win95 was the last to do that
19:51.52poolioI understand, but I have _too much_ reachable data at exit()
19:52.24``Erikis it building up over iterations? like from not freeing iteration specific stuff?
19:53.07poolioSeems like it
19:53.23poolioThe longer it runs the greater the memory used
19:53.39poolioAnd the amount of data the program should be using shouldn't be growing from iteration to iteratin
19:53.44``Erikthe results you posted are from a single iteration?
19:53.49pooliono
19:53.52poolioI think there were like 10
19:54.04poolioI need to go help jump my mom's car, I'll be back in a bit.
20:13.22pooliok, i'm back
20:13.29pooliobrlcad: so any ideas?
20:19.13brlcadis pop->parent[0] the best or worst after sorting
20:19.44pooliobrlcad: worst
20:20.06brlcadk
20:21.26``Erikthe globals in population.c would be my best guess for growth at this moment...
20:21.41poolio``Erik: Yeah...but they're just pointers
20:21.59poolioI use them when searching for individuals to crossover or mutate
20:22.13``Erik... pointers are what you're looking for, dude :D
20:22.27pooliowell they're pointers to things that are handled elsewhere
20:23.04``Erikmebbe write some quick recursive 'count' functions for 'em to see the size, and print those values between iterations?
20:23.15``Erikor null them out between iterations so valgrind can give you better info
20:24.57poolioYeah that was a really nasty solution there..
20:25.12poolioI think when I came up with it, it was just going to be temporary
20:25.26pooliobut I don't see a better way other than passing it as an argument
20:25.28``Erikheh
20:27.05CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: initialize some vars
20:35.18``Erikbah fek
20:35.21pooliobrlcad: you fixed the comments, but just FYI the user passes a number and that number is treated as a percentage. So it's keep upper n%, but internally I store it as keep upper n where n != n%
20:35.53brlcadk
20:36.38pooliobrlcad: so it's a good practice to initalize my variables even if I know they will not be used uninitialized?
20:37.58brlcadyes
20:38.12``Erikgcc's warnings will usually flag that situation
20:38.26``Erikit's good practice to have your CFLAGS include something like -W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic
20:38.27``Erik:)
20:38.28poolioyeah I test with -Wall as well as a few others
20:38.33poolio``Erik: :-)
20:38.46pooliosometimes I hate -pedantic though...
20:38.55``Erikyeah, it's so... pedantic
20:39.29brlcadit's generally good practice as someone down the road might not necessarily be using the same compiler, same conditions, or even worse as the code changes over the years
20:39.46pooliolies! it shall never change ;)
20:40.12brlcadsomeone edits the code in a couple years (maybe even yourself) and those same assumptions that "some intermediate call" happened to initialize it may no longer hold
20:40.23pooliotrue true.
20:40.27``Erikcode that never changes generally does so because no one ever uses it...
20:40.35``ErikI mean, the freakin' LANGUAGE changes
20:40.47brlcadsure it's a problem down the road, but it's easy enough to just initialize, makes debugging easier too as they're in a known state at the start of the stack
20:42.24poolio==21574== 15,531,368 (74,128 direct, 15,457,240 indirect) bytes in 31 blocks are definitely lost in loss record 10 of 10
20:42.28poolio==21574==    at 0x40227EF: calloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:279)
20:42.30poolio==21574==    by 0x4759652: bu_alloc (malloc.c:284)
20:42.33poolio==21574==    by 0x4760078: bu_ptbl_init (ptbl.c:77)
20:42.35poolio==21574==    by 0x42453BD: rt_init_resource (prep.c:648
20:43.28brlcadone step at a time
20:43.29poolioGoes up ~1mb/s
20:43.35poolio:)
20:43.46brlcaddid the printf's go away?
20:44.14pooliono.
20:44.35brlcadso there's still something there, I'm just not seeing it
20:44.44pooliosomething where? in my stuff?
20:44.53brlcadif it was just some glibc issue, it'd be on other printf's
20:45.18brlcadit's on a specific one
20:45.18pooliotrue
20:45.23poolioit could be possible it is uninitialized
20:45.23brlcadthat's valgrind giving you a hint
20:45.28pooliobut the program outputs reasonable results
20:49.02poolioeek. 82C. (doing a larger run
20:49.03poolio)
20:50.58CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c beset.h population.c population.h): no need to malloc a single struct once, just use it
20:52.04pooliofstate?
20:52.54brlcadthat's another one
20:52.58pooliobrlcad: longer run: http://rafb.net/p/JWdT8589.html
20:57.32CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/population.c: some documentation. re-initialize global vars every iteration.
20:58.42pooliobrlcad: are you dealing with fstate? I can do that if you want
21:00.56brlcadgo for it
21:01.07pooliok
21:05.16poolioeek I broke something.
21:07.57pooliobrlcad: going to pick up car, back in 10
21:08.11CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c population.c): quell several warnings
21:08.14brlcadbe sure to update, I think I missed some parens on that first update
21:08.18brlcadcya
21:20.06poolio<PROTECTED>
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21:42.30poolioBad magic number in re_solid_btiv list
23:13.53brlcadpoolio: are you compiled optimized or debug?
23:28.17brlcadsome big issue with your usage of the resource structure, curious to see how things look after refactoring fstate
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070802

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070802

00:14.59pooliobrlcad: ah crud. I thought I committed fstate, I didn't, d'oh. one sec.
00:15.15poolioforgot to put in password. d'oh.
00:15.53CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c fitness.h): fixed some bugs recently introduced. fstate no longer malloc'd
00:17.35pooliobrlcad: hmm. I think I'm actually compiled optimized. I'm guessing that's bad?
00:34.11brlcadyeah, makes debugging a lot harder
00:34.19brlcadparticularly because of inlining
00:34.37brlcadotherwise valgrind is saying you've got stack corruption
00:35.09poolioalright, so enable debugging when I build?
00:39.53pooliobrlcad: when I enabled debug nothing changed... I guess it was already enabled?
00:41.39brlcaddebug is enabled by default
00:41.49brlcadthere is that summary at the end, it tells you what you have :)
00:41.56poolioyeah yeah :P
00:42.00brlcadit's also in your config.log near the end
00:42.10poolioSo debug is enabled, as well as optimized
00:42.32brlcadso disable-optimized
00:42.58brlcador keep a separate tree
00:43.07brlcadsince it takes your box a while to recompile
00:43.18brlcadand you probably want optimized for the test runs
00:44.51pooliough :\
00:45.44pooliobrlcad: k, ill copy the directory and build without optimized, then get back to you when that's done.
00:46.24brlcadsee ya in an hour :)
00:53.36louipchmm
00:57.04louipcwhen I try to display spkr.s from radio.g mged exits
00:58.25brlcadyour radio.g that you made presumably?
00:59.44louipcoh yeah I guess I must have made it long ago from the tutorial
01:00.01louipcactually it's not specific to that file I tried something else
01:02.08pooliobrlcad: my laptop is melting. :(
01:02.44brlcadlouipc: can you display anything?
01:02.51brlcadpoolio: how about a fan? :)
01:03.18brlcadmy old laptop used to get so hot, I kept a small fan blowing on it all the time
01:03.58pooliobrlcad: hmm. where? the underside?
01:04.22louipcbrlcad: yeah I was able to display the antenna and then I tried the spkr then it exited I will try in classic mode
01:05.42brlcadpoolio: no, just blowing across the keys is often enough to strip away the heat
01:06.00brlcadtakes a few minutes of course, but it does the trick
01:06.32brlcadlouipc: cool, I suspect it's crashing for some reason -- if you can reproduce it in classic, try doing it through gdb in classic
01:06.57pooliobrlcad: not bad. 13 minutes to compile.
01:10.28pooliobrlcad: http://rafb.net/p/GdkYhX91.html
01:10.56louipcyep same stuff. classic at least tells me 'Illegal Instruction' before quitting
01:11.20brlcadpoolio: did you leave off all the preceeding or was that everything?
01:11.48pooliobrlcad: I left off preceeding
01:11.54pooliobrlcad: here's with --show-reachable also http://rafb.net/p/IgdRHb93.html
01:12.10poolioNote: all the previous errors happen before the main generation loop
01:12.28brlcadi mean like the printf stuff
01:12.36poolioyeah one sec
01:12.39pooliothat shows up before the program output
01:12.50brlcadthat's okay, it's still saying there's a potential problem
01:13.06pooliolemme just copy it all :)
01:13.07brlcadit's like compilation errors/warnings, should take care of them in order
01:13.11brlcadas many cascade
01:13.28pooliowould you like --show-reachable or no?
01:15.04brlcaddoesn't matter yet
01:15.08brlcaddefault output is fine
01:15.13pooliok
01:15.21poolioso you dont even want --leak-check?
01:16.05brlcadleave them both in
01:16.14brlcadshouldn't matter, there's plenty to work with :)
01:16.28brlcadeach one of those could take an hour or 30 seconds
01:16.34brlcador longer
01:16.41poolioeeeek.
01:17.12pooliobrlcad: http://poolio.org/~poolio/valgrind_output
01:17.14brlcadthe ptbl one is surprising -- it should leave a few bytes, but certainly not accummulate like that
01:17.34pooliowell remember how many times I'm calling everything...a whole hell of a lot
01:18.08poolionote: that's the output from a run with pop size of 20, 50 generations, and 10x10 rays
01:18.47brlcadI know, but when I said it was a "known issue", it's only known that there is a final allocation that is not freed until exit
01:18.55poolioah I see
01:19.00brlcadeven subsequent calls to init should clear out the previous
01:19.10brlcadso either there is a call missing or a leak in the library
01:19.24brlcadi'd still start from the top of that list, though
01:20.09brlcadare you up to date and commited?
01:20.36poolioyep.
01:21.58louipcin spkr.s tor 16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1
01:22.10louipcthat causes mged to quit with "Illegal Instruction"
01:22.56brlcadlouipc: that's working fine for me here
01:23.18brlcadwhat version are you on?
01:23.26brlcadcvs head?
01:23.38louipcyea
01:23.52brlcadstack trace?
01:24.13brlcadgdb --args mged -c test.g in spkr.s tor 16 16 16 1 0 0 12 1
01:24.18brlcadrun
01:24.19brlcadbt
01:24.26brlcadpastebin :)
01:25.49louipcahh I was trying to figure that out
01:32.31louipchopefully that's useful :) http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11583
01:33.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
01:33.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: remove the 'automatic flags' configure option (royal pita to keep track of
01:33.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: cleanly in the configure logic for trivial gain) for now; rename the aquatk
01:33.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: configure option to be consistent with the others and make it actually pass that
01:33.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: on to tk's configure; and add a proper JavaVM framework check, using it instead
01:33.31CIA-29BRL-CAD: of a platform test.
01:36.50brlcadhm, interesting trace .. it's trying to draw the tor so it did make it
01:37.43pooliobrlcad: do you have time now to go over the valgrind output or would you rather do it later? (I have some other things to do that are flexible but I'd rather not just sit around :))
01:37.47brlcadpoolio: if you add this to main, is there still the qsort in the output:
01:37.47brlcad<PROTECTED>
01:37.53poolioah k, one sec.
01:38.43brlcadit's really odd that it's whining about uninitialized values -- there's only three params
01:38.49brlcadpop and the function
01:39.03brlcadso I'm thinking it's pop
01:39.25brlcadand the conditional is the fact that pop_init() could conceivably be overridden at run-time
01:39.39brlcadthat would then explain printf as well
01:40.46pooliobrlcad: err nope.
01:40.56brlcadseriously?  damn.
01:41.10pooliounless I'm executin the wrong binary
01:41.28brlcadhow are you running it?
01:41.36pooliovalgrind .libs/beset
01:41.52brlcadeepish
01:42.04brlcadldd .libs/beset
01:42.23poolioyou desire that output
01:42.23poolio?
01:42.38brlcadyou have to wrap (so either adding valgrind to the wrapper script or setting ld_lib manually
01:42.50brlcadI suspect it says /usr/brlcad/...
01:42.57poolionope
01:43.05poolioI have them in /usr/lib
01:43.10poolio--prefix=/usr
01:43.11poolioI'm lazy like that.
01:43.14brlcadokay, whatever your prefix is
01:43.29brlcadyou know that will clobber some of your system libs on most linux systems
01:43.40louipc:D
01:43.42poolioProbalby, but I'm reinstalling the distro when I'm done working
01:43.49poolioSo it doesn't really matter much
01:43.57pooliogood to knwo though :)
01:44.18brlcadthe most common is usually librt
01:44.43brlcadwhich is a deprecated "real time compatibility" library that they've been planning to ditch for many years
01:44.56brlcadour librt predates them by about a decade too, but that's just the way things are
01:45.31brlcadsimilarly libbu and libbn conflict with some packages like curl also has a (private yet installed) "big number" library named the same
01:45.53brlcader, not curl .. maybe openssl, one of those guys
01:46.03pooliofight it out for rights to library names
01:46.03brlcadand a handful of others
01:46.29brlcadoh, we've stood our ground to date, though it does make integration with package management systems complicated
01:47.41brlcadplus we really can't for the core libraries for many many reasons (and that includes the most often conflicting, libbu, libbn, librt)
01:49.32brlcadlouipc: did you compile with -ffast-math?
01:49.50brlcadI see that it's optimized, I'm wondering if it's bad math juju
01:52.38pooliobrlcad: pardon my lack of bash scripting, but what exactly does ${1+"$@"} do? an array of
01:52.49poolio$@ is arguments?
01:57.27poolioah I see
01:58.37brlcadit's just a quirky way of expanding the arguments
01:58.49brlcad"$@" expands to the command line arguments
02:00.50brlcadit makes more since if it includes the :
02:01.02brlcadi.e. ${1:+"$@"}
02:01.08pooliobrlcad: no change
02:01.25brlcadwhich means .. "if it has $1 set, then substitute $@"
02:01.50poolioyeah, I got the clue when I changed it and it sad bad substitution
02:01.53poolios/sad/said
02:02.03brlcad$@ is basically $1 $2 $3 $4 ...
02:02.33brlcadso it's kinda fruity to do it that way, but it probably matters for some old system if someone did it that way
02:02.37pooliobrlcad: http://poolio.org/~poolio/val
02:03.08brlcadooh, i don't think i noticed cmd_ind before
02:03.25pooliocmp_ind?
02:03.35poolioit was there. same output :)
02:04.27brlcadyeah, I see it now
02:05.04brlcadso it's basically saying either the pop element is potentially uninitialized for some reason, or fitness specificially is
02:05.16brlcadthat's..
02:05.19brlcadodd
02:06.15brlcader, not pop.. pop.parent
02:06.21pooliowell it's potentially true if pop_spawn() wasn't called
02:06.37pooliopop.parent is alloc'ed but none of the variables are intiialized until pop_spawn() is called
02:17.16pooliobrlcad: you might want to try running valgrind locally....I may have just royally fscked something on my end
02:19.56brlcadi was about to actually, to see if I can reproduce it
02:20.02brlcadwhat's your inputs look like?
02:20.09poolio./beset source.g test.r
02:20.30pooliosource.g is the database that contains test.r
02:20.41pooliotest.r is just a region with two spheres unioned together
02:20.54brlcadlouipc: looking at that function, the only thing I can see *might* be a problem is if you had non-ieee floating point -- do you have your config.log from the compile on hand somewhere?
02:21.18poolioAny region should do
02:21.18poolioin any database
02:21.18brlcadokay
02:21.18brlcadso no population sizes or iteration counts
02:21.52poolioit defaults to 50 pop size, i think 20 generations, and a resolution of 10x10, (doesnt kill/keep any lower/upper)
02:22.00pooliohmm
02:22.10pooliolemme update options documentation, forget the -u -l
02:27.28CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/beset.c: documented -u and -l options
02:45.29pooliobrlcad: no luck?
02:45.49poolioah alright :)
02:46.27brlcad(whilst shaiking fist at louipc..)
02:48.05brlcadhe either uncovered something rather surprising that hasn't come up in at least a decade, or something entirely different is going on with that crash
02:48.58brlcadeither way, I have to rebuild now cause of core changes
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03:44.41pooliobrlcad: sorry to keep bugging you, I'm just kind of clueless as to what to do from here... it seems like there is some sort of overflow somewhere but it doesn't make much sense and I feel like it'd be segfaulting if that was the case
03:45.17louipcbrlcad: I rebuilt with debugging symbols and made a more detailed trace http://pastebin.archlinux.org/11584
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04:30.22pooliotis not possible! brlcad left :o
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13:10.50``Erikheh
13:10.55``Erikall your connection are belong to me
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16:10.43pooliobrlcad: anything?
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17:31.41``ErikBRL-CAD runs on solaris 5.8 with the gnu build chain, just ran mged and did a few traces of sphflake
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17:42.39PrezKennedyshazaam!
17:44.46poolio``Erik: you know where brlcad has disappeared to?
17:45.30PrezKennedyhe is among us! a commoner :-O
17:47.47``Erikummmm
17:49.29``Eriklets see, on saturday he's flying, which means today he's holed up and out of site tying to push 7.10.2 out the door
17:49.37``Erikout of sight
17:49.46pooliocrap.
17:49.57``Erikanything I can do for ya?
17:50.26poolio``Erik: if you have the time, I've got some odd leaks...The issue is that I'm trying to do larger test runs...and it leaks so much that it locks my system up (uses up all memory and swap)
17:50.29``Erik<-- not as versed in the finer guts of the package, but likes to pretend he's not a complete retard once in a while
17:50.47poolio``Erik: eh, you know much more than I do, any help would be appreciated, I'm pretty stuck
17:50.49``Erikis valgrind reporting it as reachable memory?
17:50.59poolio``Erik: valgrind output is here: http://poolio.org/files/val
17:51.09poolio``Erik: some of it, a lot of it is lost
17:52.13``Erik10-13m lost, 5 reachable
17:52.15``Erikum
17:52.32``Erikwhat if you do what it says on the last line and run i with --leak-check=full ? :D
17:52.40poolioyeah sure
17:53.32pooliomaybe? not sure. changes from run to run so it's probably pid
17:53.53``Erik<-- generally only touches linux when porting, so is not that familiar with valgrind
17:54.00``Erikas my rant yesterday may've indicated :)
17:54.11poolio:) if you want you could use whatever you use on it locally
17:54.45poolioit's in cvs src/gtools/beset
17:55.05``Erik<-- has no source data or clue of how to use it :)
17:55.15``Erikalso; when I try compiling it with my happy flags, it breaks like a mofo
17:55.49pooliosource data is simple
17:55.53poolioa database, with a region in it
17:55.55pooliothat's all it needs
17:56.23poolio``Erik: oh yeah. I can probably fix that. What flags are you using again? (relevant pedantic/warnings etc..)
17:56.27``Erikso I could make a sphere or metaball and just use that? your code voxelizes and then tries to regenerate the initail data from the voxelized set?
17:58.12``Erik-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -O3 -march=opteron
17:58.15``Erikor so
17:58.40poolioJah :) Not exactly voxelized but close enough. It stores the rays
17:59.17``Erikwell, that's one mechanism for voxelizing
17:59.49``Erikno one said it has to be a regular grid... indeed, many have moved to irregular tetrahedral grids
17:59.59poolioah alright, then yes.
18:00.34poolio``Erik: oh, the issue is my use of // ... that's not in C89 I think
18:00.53``Erikno, // was introduced in c99
18:01.02``Erikand we're still c89 ansi for the most part
18:01.27``ErikI did a sed -i.bak 's,//.*,,' *.[ch] the other day and still got build errors, iirc
18:01.28poolioAlright, brlcad said it was fine though, and I'm too lazy to change thar gith now. Most of the // comments are ones that are temporary while it's in active development.
18:01.36``Erikusing gcc42
18:01.59pooliowell I might have some weird comments that are in odd forms
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18:02.30``Erikinitially, I did something like s,//\(.*\),/* \1 */,
18:02.42``Erikbut was foiled by things that looked like // blah /* something */
18:02.55poolioyeah
18:04.04poolio``Erik: if you kill ansi and pedantic because of comments, and just use -W -Wall it works fine (there's some unused variable warnings that don't make sense to change)
18:04.08pooliowell unused parameter
18:07.58``ErikI can do it without the gooby flags, I mostly said that to piss ya off ;)
18:08.27pooliowell, it's a good point. It will be cleaned up at some time. But it'd be great if you killed off your handy dandy flags and just let it build for now.
18:08.37``Erikrunning an update now, but it'ts going vvvveeeerrrrryyyy slow. for some reason, my mac doesn't like tlaking nfs to my nfs server so much the last couple days
18:08.54pooliosorry
18:09.37``Erikand the boy changed configure.ac, so I'll have to sit around waiting for autoregen after the update *sigh*
18:09.46pooliooh geez
18:09.51pooliocya in a couple days ;)
18:10.53``Erikwon't take QUITE that long
18:10.57``Erikbut won't exactly be instance :/
18:11.26``Erikinstant
18:11.33``Eriktoo much wow :( I suck
18:11.44poolioYou play WoW?
18:12.25``Erikyes :(
18:12.29``Erikgf made me, now I'm hooked
18:12.43``Erikffs, 3 instances of 'scrub' running on the same fs at the same time, wtf
18:13.01poolioWait wait. Your girlfriend made you play WoW? That's awful. Quit while you still can
18:13.53``Erikhah
18:14.07``Erikshe was pissed at me yesterday cuz I kept playing wow
18:14.23``Erikand my lower level char is higher than her high level one
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18:15.45poolioQuit.
18:17.01PrezKennedywow sucks...
18:17.21PrezKennedyjust had to get that out there ;-)
18:17.22``Erikyou suck
18:17.31``ErikI'd say your mom sucks, but she's cool :/ so I can't do that
18:17.47``Erik:D
18:17.58PrezKennedyhaha
18:18.46``Erik(also; ben, my big tool for finding and fixing major leaks is "don't put them in there in thte first place" :D )
18:18.54``Erikdebugging is a pain, so don't put the bugs in
18:19.19poolioThanks ``Erik, maybe some day I'll be a better coder.
18:19.44``Erikwhat's a good object to get your freaky behavior? is a sphere sufficient?
18:19.53poolioyeah
18:20.00poolioit's not caused by the input data
18:20.10``Erik<-- has been coding for 24 years, is still trying to be a better coder
18:21.24Laniakea``Erik: how old are you?
18:22.41poolioRun it like ./beset db.g region.r
18:23.11``Erikancient :(
18:23.43``Eriknot as old as john, though
18:23.49``Erik<-- about to turn 31
18:29.06``Erikhum, ok
18:29.12``Erikit ran in .25 seconds O.o
18:29.21poolio``Erik: oh yeah, so if you want it to run longer
18:29.27pooliospecificy some options to do so
18:29.28poolioso
18:29.38poolio./beset -p 300 -g 100 -r 32 db.g region.r
18:29.45``Erikheh
18:29.47poolio./beset for documentation
18:29.49``ErikI did -p 1000 -g 1000
18:29.53poolioerrr
18:30.03poolioi mean, I have a slow laptop, so you might be able to take that
18:30.03``Eriktat slows it down enough to watch it grow
18:30.12``Erikquad opteron 2.0ghz with 8g ram
18:30.20``ErikI figured I wanted a slower machine to do it on
18:30.21``Erik:D
18:30.23poolioyeah fair enough, I'm just not sure how to exit gracefully and have valgrind catch it?
18:30.31``Erikno valgrind, not linux
18:30.31poolio...that's slow? rawr.
18:30.41``Erikthe linux boxes are 8 core
18:30.43``Erikis this threaded?
18:30.50``Erikdoesn't look like it
18:30.51poolioit was, I disabled the threading for testing
18:31.10pooliothe codes in there, just commented out for now while I try to fix these leaks
18:31.47``Erikok, -p 1000 -g 10 takes 3sec, that should be sufficient
18:32.00pooliok :)
18:32.24poolio3 seconds? geez man.
18:32.27pooliowell I'm not running optimized
18:33.32``Erikhum
18:33.36``Erikbeset in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense
18:33.48pooliowhere in beset?
18:34.15``Erikheh, doesn't say, gonna add some stuf fin... happens at the very beginning
18:34.39pooliohmm alright
18:34.46poolio(no frees are directly called by beset.c)
18:35.07``Erikno bound overwrites
18:35.26pooliothat's good. does that mean there can't be any stack overflow?
18:35.32pooliowell stack corruption
18:35.58``ErikI'd assume
18:36.35``Erikboehm seems to crash
18:36.44``Erikprobably from that pointer error
18:37.03pooliothe free() one?
18:37.22``Erikyeah
18:37.44pooliocan you specify more t han free() in beset? there aren't any direct free()s called in beset.c is there a backtrace for it or something?
18:38.04``Erikno backtrace, unfortunately
18:38.26poolioso the only thing youc an say is there's some bogus pointer being free()'d somewhere near the beginning of the program?
18:39.09poolioCould I narrow that down by adding some printf debugging output at certain intervals in between routines?
18:39.31``ErikI can add those, just sit tight a few, I'm getting some environments rigged up
18:39.32``Erik:)
18:39.37poolioAlright thanks
18:39.51poolioOh wait...here's a big idea. Do I need to free the partition and segments list passed to the a_hit routine?
18:42.34``Erikthe junk pointer stuff is at _init() time :/
18:43.24``Erikuhmmmm, hrm, I'm not sure :)
18:44.09``ErikI don't THINK so, but I'm not sure
18:44.11poolioSo I really have no control over the junk pointer you're talking about right?
18:44.56``Erikright
18:45.11poolioIt doesn't look like I need to clean up the partitions/segments. g_qa doesn't
18:45.26poolioThat's what I based the raytracing section of beset off of
18:46.14``Erikheh
19:11.55pooliohmm
19:12.11poolioI have some ideas for optimizations, but none for fixing the leaky software :P
19:12.44``Erikhow irritating, valgrind doesn't lilke amd64
19:12.50``Erikit seems it's JUST for i386 linux
19:13.33``Erikand opennurbs sucks big hairy goat balls and has my mac build all plugged up
19:13.44pooliosorry
19:16.52``Erikwhat if;
19:17.15``Erikadd externs in beset.c, then at the beginning of the loop in beset.c, null them out... and see if valgrind hleps there?
19:17.20``Erikor did you try that already?
19:17.41pooliowell, I null them at the beginning of pop_gop
19:17.46poolioso they are nulled each iteration
19:17.53poolio(before they are used)
19:19.49``Erikhrmmmm
19:24.04poolio``Erik: I just updated CVS if you want to try it
19:24.13poolioalso now you fun flags will work (except -Werror)
19:24.28CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (6 files): now conforms to C89
19:52.36``Erikhrmmmm
19:52.50``Erikit doesn't look like the allocs that are leaking are in src/gtools/beset
19:58.44``Erikhummmmm
19:58.53``Erikiiiinteresting,
19:59.07``Erikare any of these numbers magic? 36 4.5 2.25
20:07.52poolio``Erik: errr, not as far as I know
20:08.55poolio``Erik: I remember brlcad saying something about bu_ptbl_init...maybe there?
20:09.26``Erikhrm
20:09.40``Erikthere're 36 retained records for -p 1 -g 1
20:10.09``Erikwhen I bump it to -p 10 -g 1, it's 2.25x, and -p 1 -g 10 is 4.5x
20:10.25poolioweird
20:11.05``Erik(and obviously, 2.25*2=4.5
20:11.06``Erik)
20:11.33``Erik(also; I wouldn't rule out g_qa leaking like a seive)
20:11.39poolioheh alright]
20:12.22poolioSomething to note, -p 1 - g 1 doesn't do anything in terms of the GA. It spawns a population, saves that to a database, and exits.
20:12.40pooliowell -p 1 means it'll just spawn one individual and save it to a database and exit
20:12.41``Erikok, right, because g-1
20:12.50``Erikso -g 10 does 0-8
20:12.57``Erikwhich seems... odd
20:12.58``Erik:)
20:13.00pooliowell
20:13.04poolioit does 0-9
20:13.06poolio(geenrates the population)
20:13.11pooliobut we dont evaluate the fitness for the last generation
20:13.19``Erikokie
20:13.22``Erikwell
20:13.31``Erikhm
20:13.36poolioIt has to do with the way the loop is worked
20:13.45``Erikif -p 10 -g 1 shows growth
20:13.59``ErikI'd assume that might mean your leak might possibly be in your population generation
20:14.11``Erikmaybe
20:14.26pooliospawn_first_generation(); for(each_generation){evaluate fitness of previous and spawn new generation}
20:14.46poolioSeems so, let me check.
20:15.16poolioah d'oh. there is leakage there
20:15.19pooliolet me fix that up
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20:15.47poolioI don't think mk_sph would (I think cleanup of the db ointer would do that)
20:16.01pooliomk_addmember might
20:16.11pooliowell that'd be part of the wm_hd list cleanup I'm about to write
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20:18.18IriX64testing found this --->  http://rafb.net/p/GJBQ0l79.html
20:18.58``Erikyeah, it's in src/other so it's someone elses problem... there're a fistful of those in our code, too, I think
20:19.24IriX64thankyou
20:19.35IriX64i'll fix my copy :)
20:20.02poolio``Erik: none of the code in proc_db cleans up the wm_hd lists
20:20.22poolioI don't think it needs to be actually... but I'll try anyway
20:20.40IriX64invoke mr_clean()     :)
20:21.55IriX64ahem, i return to my own trials and tribulations, sorry poolio :)
20:22.04poolio:(
20:23.14``Erikpoolio, it's highly possible that a lot of this stuff expects only one run and does not clean up, assuming the OS will clean up at exit... :/ you're presenting a unique challenge to the framework :)
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20:24.54poolio``Erik: argh. Also: there's no de-init needed in pop_spawn() with the wm_hd...all of it should clean itself up at the end of the routine
20:25.17``Erikonce I have a re-done build
20:25.23``ErikI'm going to commit grave fugliness
20:25.29poolioah. which is?
20:25.40``Erikand tap it with a debugger to see if I can get a stack trace on one of those leak points
20:25.53poolioalright, you're over my head. thanks a ton for the help
20:26.00``Erikheh
20:26.19``ErikI have the addresses of the un-freed things
20:26.38``ErikI'm going to put something in bu_malloc() that searches for some of those addresses
20:26.53``Erik"if the pointer happens to be 0x080c2351, break to debugger"
20:26.54``Erik:)
20:26.57``Erikhopefully it works
20:26.58pooliowow
20:27.01pooliothat is really friggin fugly.
20:27.11``Erik<-- king of ugly
20:27.22``Erikbut sometimes it works, then I look godlike :D
20:27.34pooliohehe
20:28.03poolioso you don't think the leaks have to do with anything I could fix in beset?
20:28.08``Erikwell
20:28.12``Erikthey're not actually leaks
20:28.28``Erikjust not freed when they should be... there's still a path to them
20:28.44pooliowait
20:29.06poolioso most of the memory leaks are reachable things that were allocated in the stack and weren't properly freed when their respective routines exited?
20:30.07``Erikno
20:30.30``Erikonly active frames of the stack are considered
20:30.48``Erikotherwise, valgrind SHOULD see it as an omfg leak
20:30.54poolioheh alright
20:37.47IriX64mc
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20:51.26``Erikiiiinteresting
20:51.46``Erikoi, lee
20:53.03iraytraceEvenin
20:53.13``Erikthe first one is in rt_gettree()
20:55.52pooliomaybe lee can fix all the bugs. :)
20:56.12pooliois this big boss man lee?
20:56.36``Erikno, this is whipping boy expatiate lee :)
20:57.08iraytraceHe's got *that* right.
20:57.32poolioouch.
20:57.34iraytracepoolio:  It's great too see what you've been doing
20:57.39``Erikso your report was sat on past the deadline?
20:57.50iraytrace:-(
20:58.00iraytraceThere's more to it than just that
20:58.24poolioiraytrace: thanks. It's been quite slow and frustrating though. I expected to be so much further so much faster.
20:58.53``Erikpoolio, this is what I'm looking at now, as the 'first possible culprit': http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d43fc0cc6
20:59.13pooliovalgrind picked that up
20:59.26pooliolet me find the valgrind snippet
20:59.31poolio(not in that much detail of course)
21:02.15poolio``Erik: http://rafb.net/p/McsUKV59.html <-- valgrind gets it too
21:04.07``Erikhum
21:05.03pooliohmm
21:05.57poolioso another possibility, I remember brlcad talking about offsets in the internal objects. I currently write the same internal object from one database into the next database without modifying the internal object in any way (just creating a new directory in the new database). Is there something i need to do to the rt_db_internal structure before I write it out to the new database?
21:06.20``Erik<-- has no idea
21:07.01pooliohmm. I think it's not that. I feel like that would manifest itself as collisions between to rt_db_internal structs with the same offset and blow up. But it appears that the code works fine aside from the leaks.
21:08.01poolio(and the databases aren't corrupt or anything)
21:08.29poolioAlso, that whole situation of copying internal objects doesn't occur with a generation size of one
21:16.13poolioOh. That's a pain.
21:17.18poolioIt looks like it is rt_gettree(). It does happen with g=1 because I raytrace the region that is passed as an argument and rt_gettree() is called on that
21:20.58``Erikbased on how it's used elsewhere
21:21.21``Erikhum, I was looking at this line before, heh
21:21.44``Erikwait, you don't prep, do you?
21:21.53pooliort_prep()? I do
21:22.01poolioah does that call gettree?
21:22.35``Erikno, that's what cleans up gettree
21:22.43pooliooh
21:23.50pooliolook at fit_rt() in fitness: rtip = rt_new_rti(db); rt_gettree(rtip); rt_prep(rtip); ...shoot rays...
21:24.00poolioand finally rt_clean(rtip)
21:25.01``Eriknot rt_free_rti() ?
21:25.19pooliono
21:25.31poolioI previously had rt_free_rti() but siwtched to rt_clean(). Do I need to do both?
21:25.51``Erikrt_free_rti() calls rt_clean() and does some other stuff
21:26.01pooliohmm ok
21:26.33pooliorawr.
21:26.42poolioWhy did I change it to rt_clean()?????????
21:27.51poolioerr still get the rt_gettree leak
21:31.23``Erikhum, actually, I think we found different things O.o
21:32.36pooliohmm?
21:32.52poolioI have a feeling I'm not properly comprehending what is allocated and unallocated in the rtip
21:33.10``Erikheh, same here
21:33.50poolio<PROTECTED>
21:34.09pooliois that different than rt_uniresource?
21:40.45poolio``Erik: argh I have to go, but I'll be around later. If you come across anything just write it in here or send me an e-mail and I'll see it in a couple hours. Thanks again for all the help
21:42.15``Eriknp
21:47.55``Erikhttp://egv8.game.googlepages.com/home
22:00.29iraytraceThe rt_uniresource is a single resource allocated by the library
22:00.43iraytraceFor multiple, the application has  to alloc/dealloc
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070803

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070803

00:24.29*** join/#brlcad namedrisk (n=arg@BHE201062173248.res-com.wayinternet.com.br)
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02:14.22brlcadpoolio: you can't use the uniresource for multi-cpu
02:14.47brlcadit's specifically (and staticly) meant for single-cpu routines only
02:15.09brlcadany other use would probably fall under the "unexpected behavior" if not a slew of other .. "issues"
03:46.36pooliobrlcad: yeah, but I've cut it down to one cpu while I test
03:46.46poolioI'm using uniresource and settings the number of CPUs to 1
04:09.41brlcadk, thought I saw a patch that tried to used the uni for many is only reason I mentioned it
04:10.47brlcadI'm packing up now, getting ready for my flight, so I'll not be on-line much until Saturday "probably" .. airports are more connected these days and I did get ssh over ssl set up nicely so I might be on hand at least listening
04:13.34PrezKennedywhere ya flying to?
04:14.06pooliobrlcad: hmm alright, I'm flying to Chicago tomorrow :P
04:14.12poolio(just for the weekend)
04:14.57pooliobrlcad: I guess I'll keep trying to see what I can get done on my own, although I'm not sure there's much. There's some more code that can be cleaned up, and I have some ideas for optimizations I can put in
04:15.37pooliobrlcad: Do you want me to send you the monthly report or send it to Mary Jane as you'll be gone?
04:16.41brlcadtomorrow as in Sat?
04:17.20poolioah no
04:17.21pooliolater today
04:17.23brlcad:)
04:17.25pooliooops ... damn day changed.
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04:27.22brlcadgah
04:27.36brlcad<PROTECTED>
04:31.27pooliohehe
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11:43.42thing0hey yall
12:17.58pooliomornin
12:24.52thing0evening
12:24.53thing0hehe
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19:00.23Laniakea``Erik: have you succeeded installing OpenBSD?
19:03.51``Erikheh, nope :)
19:04.35``Erik*ponder*
19:05.14``ErikI wonder if obsd can run diskless using PXE to boot and using an NFS share (on a fbsd box) as the core fs?
19:19.27LaniakeaI don't know
19:27.12``ErikSWEET, emacs crashed
19:29.32Laniakea``Erik: but I would expect boot from network should be supported
19:30.06LaniakeaI am actually now compiling Ronja with a non-functional brl-cad
19:30.23Laniakeaseems that the pictures produced with rt are OK, makes a meaningful video.
19:30.34Laniakeamaybe just the mged is screwed up because of the tcl/tk
19:32.08``Erikrt doesn't use tcl
19:32.34``Erik*ponder*
19:32.36Laniakeayeah
19:32.50``Erikdo you have autoconf, automake, and a lot of spare time?
19:33.04Laniakeaautoconf automake yes
19:33.16Laniakeaspare time do you mean human time or time running something in the background?
19:33.25``Erikmostly machine time
19:33.29Laniakeayeah I have
19:33.55``Erikif we were to, say, 'make distclean', edit configure.ac, change one line, run ./autogen.sh, then configure, then build... and see if that works?
19:34.08Laniakeabut for about a week the Ronja will be compiled because a friend suggested the videos would look better from some elevation rather than from 0 elevation
19:34.19Laniakeaso I am recompiling now everything with 15 deg elevation
19:34.22``Erikconfigure.ac line 2530, and change where it says "*openbsd*" to "*openbsd-[[1-3]]*" ? (like the fbsd one)
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19:35.15``Erikand the same on line 2642
19:35.27``Erikand 2739
19:36.02``Erikand 2852... um, any line that has 'openbsd'
19:36.09``Erikin fact
19:36.24``Eriksed -i.bak 's/openbsd/openbsd-[[1-3]]/' configure.ac
19:37.06``Erik<-- under the impression that obsd4 introduced new library naming
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20:43.42IriX64http://rafb.net/p/vAxwK991.html <--- somethings missing here but i don't know the code so i'm stumped
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20:54.38IriX64maybe it's me, if_wgl.c exhibits similar problems
20:56.23IriX64bbl8r
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21:30.25IriX64heh http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7-10.1inaction
21:31.51IriX64thats with X-ming (chortle)
21:39.44IriX64same url /editobject1.png  :)
21:39.59``Erikhum
21:40.08IriX64boring eh?
21:40.12IriX64:)
21:40.41CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: Skip if windows, if_wgl.c is for that
21:41.05IriX64thank you
21:41.16``Erikhopefully that fixes things, heh
21:41.29IriX64but if_wgl.c has same type of issues, would you like a paste
21:41.49IriX64heh fixed for unixland
21:42.17IriX64ill do an update and try again
21:44.38IriX64l8r
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21:48.56``Erikoi, twingy
21:49.03Twingygreetings
21:49.15``ErikI sent ya an email this morning, looking for the latest isst, is that on sf?
21:49.31Twingyum
21:49.37Twingyit's probably in my home directory
21:50.28``Erikhum, if you get some free time on monday, think you could tar up a drop for me? ed wnats me to look at the cone/region thing
21:51.00Twingywell, I'm working sunday and taking monday off
21:51.10Twingythat way I can get some work done without being disturbed
21:51.14``Erik<-- not in until tuesday and about to go home
21:51.23``Erikif you happen to have 5 minutes *shrug* :)
21:51.30Twingy5 minutes when?
21:51.40``Erikum, whenever? heh
21:51.47Twingyyou just need the files?
21:51.49``Erikyeah
21:51.55TwingyI can send them to you tonight
21:51.58``Erikok
21:52.09TwingyI'll make a tar.gz and make sure they compile
21:52.19Twingyall the code is documented
21:52.20``Erikcool, thanks
21:52.29Twingythere should be instructions on usage in the README
21:52.36``Eriksweet
21:53.02Twingyif you look at the visible region shader
21:53.26Twingythat is a 20-30 line file that shows how to plug in your own code for visualization of whatever
21:54.04``Erikat the moment, I'll probably do the q&d 'fire lots of rays in the cone and record what gets hit, then paint that a funny color on visualization' approach
21:54.09Twingyit may be prudent to throw away libtie with 5 functions and plug in rayforce
21:54.36``Erikpossibly, but that might take longer than I care to take :D
21:54.45Twingyotherwise you will be limited to a few million rays/sec
21:56.19``Erik'filevault' is a little off in its time estimates :/ by a factor of ~2
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21:57.46IriX64``Erik? shouldn't the logic be if ogl and !wgl ?
21:58.08IriX64stead of or
22:03.36IriX64errand to run be back in 5
22:14.28``Erikerm
22:14.34``Erikwoops
22:15.11IriX64heh
22:15.19IriX64thatll still work :)
22:15.41CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: oops, "and", not "or"
22:39.17IriX64true beauty of this is it'll be running the unix code and with a handfull of dll's and an xserver for windows, anybody can have this on their desktop
22:54.54IriX64hex.c on that site will make threaded bolts for you (not my effort)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070804

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070804

00:01.36``ErikI hope that doesn't mean I have to turn in my geek badge :(
00:02.28``Erik(at least I'm grown up enough to admit it, unlike many 'prolific developers' if you watch the geek news lately)
00:05.15``Erikwanna know what's funny? I tried to 'filevault' my dual g5 tower with an 80g drive today
00:05.15``Erikit's about 60% full
00:05.15``Erikit told me I have insufficient space, i'm ~4000gb short on hdd space
03:17.01``Erikswank
03:17.18``Erikhow mayn $'s deep for the gear?
03:54.56Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/SOJ32_PROTO_BOARD.jpg
04:10.06louipcTwingy: .0001 inch?
04:10.18Twingy0.01"
04:10.41louipcthat's 10 thou :D
04:11.00Twingy10 mil, yes
04:11.05Twingythat's what I said
04:11.24Twingy10 mil == 0.01"
04:11.34louipcah I'm not familiar with that terminology usage
04:12.29louipcI learned and work with a bunch of british machinists that call it a 'thou' or 'thousandth'
04:13.19Twingyin the land of electronics everything is measure in 'mil'
04:13.33louipcah
04:14.46TwingyI'll solder it on sunday
04:15.01Twingywill be easy
04:15.09Twingynot like a qfp100
04:15.25louipcI couldn't say hah
04:15.41Twingyhttp://js.cx/~justin/images/QFP64_PROTO_PIC18F67J11.jpg
04:15.47Twingy^-- those are annoying to solder
04:16.48louipcouch must be, I've only ever soldered + and - wires to their places
10:58.33*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-111-48.dyn.iinet.net.au)
10:58.38thing0heya
11:31.32*** part/#brlcad tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines)
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19:18.55louipchello
19:35.37brlcadhowdy louipc
19:37.11louipcI was looking at g_torus.c to try and figure out what was going on :/ no clue
19:37.37brlcadreally?
19:37.58brlcadall the g_*.c's are pretty simple -- set of callback routines
19:38.02brlcadunless you mean the actual math
19:39.18brlcadg_xxx.c will give you an idea of the overall structure
19:39.22louipcI did another trace that has more detail it looks like it shouldn't get to the line that the error is at
19:39.25louipchttp://pastebin.archlinux.org/11584
19:39.29louipcok
19:40.38brlcadray-tracing generally involves just three or so of he routines, a prep routine called before all the rays first, then a hit/shot routine that actually evaluates a ray against the primitive, and a normal routine that reports on the curvature (so it shades correctly)
19:41.04brlcadahh, right -- you had the crash
19:41.31brlcadI have a big patch here that might actually fix the problem if it's what I think might be going on
19:41.44louipcaah sweet
19:42.16brlcadthat's a BIG if
19:42.33brlcadit shouldn't be happening at all, even with non-ieee math
19:42.43brlcaddid you compile optimized or with extra compilation flags?
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19:43.00louipca lot of this is over my head, I just thought I might see if something looked off I've been able to fix other things like that
19:43.32louipcwell that latest trace I turned off optimized ... it should be just plain then
19:43.51brlcadand it *still* crashed?
19:44.03louipcyep
19:44.05brlcadwow
19:44.52brlcadtry applying this patch
19:44.54brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/smallint.patch
19:45.01brlcadpatch -p0 < smallint.patch
20:01.32PrezKennedyhey brlcad
20:04.28brlcadhowdy PrezKennedy
20:05.02*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-013-151.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:09.30brlcadgeez, still don't get that crash, even with bad math unless the routines are returning NaN or something
20:09.35louipcwhat's fastf_t?
20:09.41brlcadthat line it's crashing on is simply:  3.14159265358979323846 / .15692964165835220337
20:10.08brlcadacos(1 - 0.26000000000000001) --> -.83307035834164779663
20:10.34brlcad+ .99 --> .15692964165835220337
20:10.44brlcadfastf_t is double
20:11.13brlcadon most systems at least, potentially could be a float but that's on really old/obscure systems
20:16.54louipchmm I see yeah it's odd
20:20.35brlcadthe only thing that leaves if the stack isn't simply stomped (which doesn't seem to be the case in the backtrace) is that acos() is broken or bn_pi is corrupted (by some earlier problem)
20:20.57brlcadif you have it crash again, try "p bn_pi" if it crashes
20:22.06louipcin gdb right?
20:22.10brlcadright
20:22.15louipcok
20:22.19brlcadbut try the patch first, just curious if it makes any difference
20:22.32louipcit's building now
20:22.49brlcadshouldn't now that I see the values in your trace
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22:07.20*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669315.dsl.bell.ca)
22:10.13louipchmm
22:10.34louipcok half_theta is 0
22:10.41louipcdivide by zero erro
22:10.48louipcbi_pi looks fine
22:13.21louipccos_half_theta is also 0 hmmm
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23:30.41*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron)
23:30.57MinuteElectronI'm back.
23:31.28MinuteElectronI am at my father's house until Friday - he has 3 computers with the net so more than enough for everyone. Unlike my grandparents, who only have one.
23:31.35MinuteElectronbrb
23:32.01louipcI only have 1 :/
23:32.15MinuteElectronheh
23:32.32MinuteElectronThere are four people who want to use the computer at the same time at my fathers house.
23:32.45MinuteElectronFourtunatley I have a Nintendo Wii that my brother can use.
23:33.17louipc:D
23:33.33MinuteElectronThe one I am using ATM is the best in the house - but my Dad got it for free.
23:34.30MinuteElectronFrom a member of the family.
23:34.49MinuteElectronWho had a better PC.
23:35.06louipchehe everyone pretty much as a better PC than me
23:35.30MinuteElectronspec?
23:36.00louipcPIII 866MHz
23:36.06MinuteElectroncool
23:36.43MinuteElectronThis one is 1.3GHz, but the one before this (from 1999) was only a PII.
23:37.04louipcah
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23:51.32MinuteElectrondetached
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070805

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070805

00:45.40*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
00:59.34*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
01:10.59louipcpoor CIA
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02:18.21*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@12.158.28.131)
02:46.19*** mode/#brlcad [+o siggraph] by ChanServ
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05:27.04ewilhelmsiggraph: did anything ever come out of the nist SCL step parser?
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15:50.34louipcoh my
15:53.39MaloeranThe hotel called me at 5am to tell me they received my luggage. I was a bit worried
16:01.36louipcwow where are you?
16:16.14MaloeranI'm at the Hilton San Diego Mission Valley, are you around San Diego?
16:24.12louipcI'm around toronto
16:24.47louipcbut I'm going to LA in a couple of weeks (direct flight) yar har har
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22:16.06siggraphewilhelm: yes and no
22:17.12siggrapha step converter (and everything related, which includes nurbs/brep, tessellation, and the actual step converter) are our #1 priority for the past and next 12 months (at least)
22:17.47siggraphbasically, it's still under development.. a ton of effort has been put into nurbs/brep to date (which is pretty much requisite for full/proper step support
22:21.17MinuteElectronsiggraph: How is LDAP going?
23:10.20*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:24.09ewilhelmsiggraph: thx.  did narnia's work on the scl stuff get published?
23:24.58ewilhelmI'm looking at doing some work with IFC, so I think I'm going to be building some kind of express schema support code
23:25.24ewilhelmcurrently, the nist SCL code won't compile (and it looks like ./configure is a mess)
23:34.18siggraphlouipc: good info!  thanks .. if you've still got gdb handy, I've got some other things you could check that would help -- and I presume that the patch didn't fix the problem by itself?
23:35.56siggraphewilhelm: narnia outright disappeared on me -- both he and I had fixed their build system (i.e. replaced it with a configure that actually works) but has not yet been integrated back into our repository because neither he or I got to a usable tool point
23:36.17siggraphcould have been on a branch, but like I said .. he disappeared on me, and he was unfamiliar with cvs
23:36.48siggraphi could dig up what I have and commit it to a branch probably and get you access if you are interested in working on it
23:37.36ewilhelmsure, or e-mail me a tarball even
23:39.04ewilhelmlooks like there was some other work at http://nwg.phy.bnl.gov/~bviren/uno/other/geant4.5.2-opt/source/geometry/solids/STEP/
23:39.35ewilhelmthough maybe that was a subset
23:40.56siggraphwhat's your work, if I may ask?
23:41.14ewilhelmhttp://scratchcomputing.com
23:41.38ewilhelmyou might remember me from 2-3 years back
23:41.50siggraphoh, I remember exactly who you are :)
23:42.01siggraphi mean specifically what are you doing with step/express
23:42.40ewilhelmIndustry Foundation Classes -- a Building Information Modeling exchange format
23:45.13ewilhelmfor architecture/engineering/construction data
23:45.13siggraphso you're using step as your format? or express? or just importing/exporting step?
23:46.18ewilhelmIFC is derived from STEP/express
23:47.14siggraphderived as in a proper subset or an actual incompatible derivative?
23:47.15ewilhelmor, I suppose the correct way to say it is "defined as an express schema"
23:47.21siggraphah, so same 'base language' but different schema
23:48.00siggraphakin to sgml and xml
23:48.12ewilhelmyeah, at least "as I currently understand it"
23:48.48ewilhelmstill getting my head bootstrapped into it
23:51.57ewilhelmI guess 10303-11 is 'EXPRESS', which lets you define a schema (.exp file) which can then be referenced from a 10303-21 file with FILE_SCHEMA()
23:52.22ewilhelme.g. ISO-10303-21;
23:52.23ewilhelm...
23:52.28ewilhelmFILE_SCHEMA(('IFC2X2_FINAL'));
23:56.19ewilhelmIAI seems to be a little kinder about providing documents than ISO
23:58.11siggraph~IAI
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070806

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070806

00:00.27ewilhelmhttp://www.iai-na.org/
00:03.06*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
00:03.54siggraph~IAI is the International Alliance for Interoperability, a global standards-setting organization representing widely diverse constituencies from architects and engineers, to research scientists, to commercial building owners and contractors, to government officials and academia, to facility managers, and to software companies and building product manufacturers.  See http://www.iai-na.org/ for details.
00:03.55ibotsiggraph: okay
00:15.16siggraphewilhelm: are you interested at all in working on a STEP processing library? if you are, I'm sure there's a lot we could do
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01:35.20LinuxMafiahi all
01:35.56LinuxMafiais there a command to say rotate 45 degree in x direction
01:36.30LinuxMafiaany one here?
01:42.33yukonbobLinuxMafia: rot
01:42.48LinuxMafiayukonbob, tthanks so much
01:43.31yukonbobthat'll rotate, or "ae" for absolute values
01:43.35yukonbobie: ae 0 0 0
01:43.38yukonbobae 30 0 0
01:44.25yukonbobi think ae only adjusts view though, not actual object.
01:44.43LinuxMafiaae is not rotate
01:45.03LinuxMafiayeah ae is vie
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02:31.13IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mged.png   and photon.png   who says windows blows :)
03:32.49louipcsiggraph: nope the patch didn't fix the problem :/ I still have gdb yep
03:36.13louipcI was going to try to step through it but it goes through a lot of code!
04:29.42IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/helicopter.png  (unix code on windows)
04:42.23pooliosiggraph: are you still at siggraph?
05:02.05ewilhelmsiggraph: atm, just seeing what's out there
05:02.20ewilhelmI'm definitely going to have to do some data-mining from IFC at some point
05:02.52ewilhelmif I understand it correctly, the SCL is something like "generate C++ classes from an EXPRESS schema"
05:03.34ewilhelmthough I have my doubts about how pretty that will be in C++
05:04.37ewilhelmultimately, I would probably aim for a Perl binding with Inline or something
05:04.54ewilhelmbut need to get a good handle on what that will entail
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14:12.15pooliodamn time zones...
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15:59.50pooliois there a way to copy an object form one database to another?
16:06.50archivistI have to restrain myself from answering that as a mysql question where its easy
16:08.03poolioI guess I'll just write a simple program to do it myself
16:08.25poolioit's not too hard, I'm just not sure as to the command and am too lazy to research it heh
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16:22.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h population.h): pre-generate and store identifiers. more cleanup
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16:29.04ertugeratasalut
16:30.10ertugeratatarzeau: selam
16:52.26*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
17:08.31ertugeratailya quelqu'un peut m'aider pour les dependencies just de brlcad ?
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17:33.45siggraphpoolio: yes, all week
17:42.34siggraphertugerata: salut
17:42.42pooliosiggraph: ayeeeee :)
17:42.53pooliosiggraph: enjoy
17:43.13ertugeratasiggraph: tu parle français ? ou no ?
17:43.22siggraphEu não falo o português, mas eu posso tentar ajudar-lhe
17:43.31poolioje parle un peu de francais
17:43.45poolioc'est possible que je peut t'aider
17:43.46ertugeratapoolio: moi aussi
17:44.00siggraphthere are no "required" dependencies -- everything you need is in the tarball
17:44.25ertugeratasiggraph: opennubs a problems  
17:44.26siggraphat least other than a compiler, a shell, perhaps curses, and x11
17:44.46siggraphertugerata: what kind of problems?
17:44.55poolioertugerata: quels problemes?
17:45.13poolioertugerata: est-ce que vous pouvez mettre les erreurs ici: http://rafb.net/paste
17:45.29ertugerataune minute je vais reconstrure une fois
17:45.33pooliomerci
17:45.43siggraph~tr en fr you can try to use --disable-opennurbs with 'configure'
17:46.24ertugerata--enable-buildopennubs=no marche bien
17:46.38tarzeauertugerata: saleykuem
17:46.55ertugeratatarzeau: türkçe anlıyor musun
17:47.01siggraph~x en fr you can try to use --disable-opennurbs with 'configure'
17:47.07siggraphthere we go
17:47.14siggraphheh, not very good :)
17:47.25tarzeauertugerata: anliyorum biraz evet
17:47.38louipcthere's a ./configurent script?
17:47.41louipchehehe
17:48.04siggraphuse --disable-opennurbs or --enable-opennurbs-build=no, but not --enable-buildopennubs=no  
17:48.09ertugeratatarzeau: brlcad ı derlemeye çalışıyorum
17:48.27ertugerataopennubs u derleyince hata çıktı
17:48.34ertugeratabende disable ettim
17:48.35tarzeauertugerata: valla tuerkcem cok sayif.. arti tuerk harfleri ?? isaret olarak gosteriyor
17:48.42ertugeratatmm
17:49.00louipcczech?
17:49.03ertugeratabrlcad ı derlemeye calisiyorum
17:49.29ertugerataopennubs nedir
17:49.56ertugerataneden gereken her sey source da var onu soracam  
17:50.55siggraphpuedes escribir en español?
17:51.57siggraphquel es la problemes .. exact?
17:52.21louipcturkish maybe
17:52.53siggraphhe started in french
17:53.25ertugeratasiggraph: je vais reproduire bugs dans quelque minute
17:53.32siggraphk
17:54.09*** join/#brlcad ert76-pardus (n=ert76-pa@88.243.251.139)
17:54.10siggraphand they're not bugs.. just build issues :)
17:54.27ert76-pardusertugerata: ordamısın
17:58.03ertugeratasiggraph: http://rafb.net/p/mlgmrl85.html
17:59.00siggraphahh, that's an easy one
17:59.09siggraphthose are libz symbols
17:59.41siggraphcd src/other/opennurbs && make LIBS="-lz" && cd ../../.. && make
18:00.13pooliosiggraph: wOOt. fixed the biggest memory issue :)
18:00.40pooliowait no...
18:00.43pooliowell one of them ...
18:01.27siggraphertugerata: you need to add -lz to your LIBS -- so either during configure (./configure LIBS=-lz) or during top-level make (make LIBS=-lz) or in a specific directory
18:01.38siggraphpoolio: coolio
18:01.40siggraphwhat was it?
18:01.52pooliohmm well I thought I fixed it, but now I'm not sure
18:01.59siggraphheh
18:02.04poolioI thought it was that some hist structs weren't being freed
18:02.14poolioso I added bu_hist_free() stuff to rt_cut_clean
18:02.26pooliobut the lost memory is still there
18:02.30ertugeratasiggraph:comme  "./configure LIBS=lz" N'est pas
18:03.17louipcLIBS=-lz
18:03.37ertugeratathanks
18:03.40louipcmoins
18:06.13pooliosiggraph: did you ever figure out something with the bu_ptbl_init leaks?
18:06.20poolioI remember you were looking at them a couple days ago
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18:06.59ertugerata2 eme problem: "prefix=/usr/brlcad" just ?  
18:09.18louipc/usr/brlcad c'est le défault
18:10.57ertugeratamerci bien
18:13.23pooliosiggraph: is it possible valgrind is wrong? I mean...I mean I'm 99% sure that it is being free'd, but valgrind is still saying that the blocks are definitely lost
18:13.36siggraphpoolio: I was looking at it, but I'd not finished -- I'd then moved to top of the list (which I still think is a problem too)
18:13.51pooliowhat's the top of the list?
18:13.59pooliothe printf's?
18:14.27siggraphpoolio: I've *yet* to see valgrind be wrong (through hundreds of runs on many many systems) .. even when I've thought it was wrong and keep looking.. it was eventually right
18:14.47pooliook
18:14.57siggraphi mean theoretically it could possibly be wrong, but to date I've not seen even one instance
18:15.16poolioso most likely it is not wrong
18:15.25siggraphmost likely
18:20.12ertugerataje vais packager brlcad pour pardus distro turc
18:36.02ertugerata3 eme problem :comment je marche brlcad , est-ce que je peux faire .destop pour quelle executable ?
18:36.48louipcertugerata: mged
18:37.05ertugeratahmm
18:37.31ertugeratasi mged marche bien c'est fini ?
18:37.40louipctu peut faire une .desktop si tu veut
18:38.02ertugeratapour mged ?
18:38.23louipcoui
18:38.28louipcet oui
18:39.02ertugerataune minute
18:40.38pooliosiggraph: I'm a bit confused with some code...re_directory_blocks, memory for directories stored in the resource pointer... it seems it's nto being freed anywhere? where is the appropriate time to do so? It's commented out of rt_clean_resource but I can't see where it was moved to or if it was moved anywhere
18:41.41poolio(line 187 of prep.c)
18:41.45pooliosrc/librt
18:42.46ertugerataj'ai urt , iwidgets, itk and itcl separee , command va ajouter  parametre configure ?
18:43.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: free rti_hist_cell_pieces
18:43.44poolio:q
18:44.49poolioerr
18:44.57louipc./configure va détecté si tu l'as intallé automatiquement
18:45.38ertugeratasi il ne trouve pas justement je peux aider comment ?
18:45.57siggraph~louipc++
18:47.53louipcje pense qu'il n'y a pas un fa
18:48.04louipcun façon de le faire
18:48.53louipcsiggraph: you do you help ./configure find those installed dependencies if it can't?
18:49.11siggraphpoolio: that could be why it's leaking .. I don't remember why it would be commented out other than some other situation where that was potentially causing some other issue -- guessing, have to look at the commit log or otherwise think about where it "should" be released (and rt_clean_resource sounds like 'the place' to me)
18:49.26siggraphlouipc: what do you mean?
18:49.32pooliosiggraph: well I kind of see why it shouldn't be released there
18:49.49siggraphyou 'can' always help configure find things, but don't have to (at least you're not supposed to need to)
18:50.12louipcertugerata asks if configure can't find them how can he help it?
18:50.13siggraphthere are a few situations where you may need a cflag or an ldflag or a lib though
18:50.23pooliosiggraph: I'm raytracing multiple objects from the same databse, leaving the database open the whole time. It looks like the resouce pointers link into the directory stucture, and freeing those blocks would mess up future iterations using the database
18:51.10siggraphhave to find out why it didn't find them (and does he have a specific example of one) -- a common one for 7.10 is folks expecting it to find tcl/tk where we do specifically check for 8.5+
18:51.12pooliosiggraph: the reasoning the files gives is " 182         /* XXX These can't be freed here either, because we allocated
18:51.15poolio<PROTECTED>
18:51.18poolio<PROTECTED>
18:51.20poolio"
18:52.04poolioI'm not quite sure I understand what that means, but it seems like we can't free the re_directory_blocks until we're done with the db_i?
18:52.32siggraphlouipc: it could be a simple matter of the configure test just needing a -lz or some other flag, or it could be something more lower level -- details in config.log as to why it failed to find/use whatever feature/header/library/etc
18:54.21pooliocarnegie mellon?
18:54.28siggraphyep
18:54.29dtidrow_workprobably
18:54.34poolioput in a good word for me ;)
18:54.38siggraphheh
18:54.41yukonbobapparently there's a Spore (the game) talk too
18:55.00pooliosweet. can't wait for it to come out, sounds awesome
18:55.02dtidrow_worksiggraph: color me green  :-\
18:55.06siggraphthis paper is on really need plastic deformations
18:55.12siggraphs/need/neat/
18:55.19siggraphdtidrow_work: hm?
18:55.32dtidrow_workgreen as in envious
18:55.47siggraphdtidrow_work: oh, you're not here this year??
18:56.00dtidrow_worknope, wasn't in the budget
18:56.09siggraphahh
18:56.22dtidrow_workso I'm stuck in my office this year  :-(
18:56.27siggraphthat's a shame
18:56.38dtidrow_workindeed
18:56.49pooliosiggraph: maybe free re_directory_blocks in db_close?
18:56.54siggraphcoulda gone.. had it not been for 'other' factors ;-)
18:57.15siggraphpoolio: perhaps, though I'm not sure I believe that comment by itself
18:57.42pooliok. well I'm going to throw it in db_close() and see how it does. I won't commit it but I'll fool around with my local build
18:57.48siggraphheck, I might have even written that comment, seems familiar to an old issue
18:57.49dtidrow_worksiggraph: http://blogs.zdnet.com/emergingtech/?p=651 <- check out this while you're there
18:58.16poolioaren't comments supposed to explain things ;)
18:58.26siggraphpoolio: dbclose does sound like a great place for it since it's allocated during lookups
18:59.54pooliois it Ok to reference rt_uniresource from within db_close() I feel like it isn't
19:00.02siggraphdtidrow_work: hehe, okay
19:00.16siggraphwhat do you mean by reference?
19:00.30siggraphit's okay for routines to check if the resource being processed is the uniresource
19:00.44siggraphsince it's memory is handled special (it's not malloced)
19:01.44pooliowell can't you open/close databases without ever initializing rt_uniresource? or is it a global that's initialized with any program that links against librt?
19:03.11siggraphrt_uniresource is auto-initialized on first access (or can be manually initialized)
19:03.36pooliosiggraph: note: that commented out freeing of re_directory_blocks exists in rt_free_rti() and rt_clean_resource()
19:03.46pooliort_free_rti() calls db_close()
19:03.48siggraphif you do an rt_dirbuild() for example, the uniresource is initialized automatically if it's not been yet
19:04.13poolioso if there was a problem freeing re_directory_blocks in rt_free_rti I bet that same problem will be exhibited if I add it to db_close()
19:04.30poolio(as rt_free_rti() calls db_close_client() which calls db_close())
19:04.43poolioand thanks for the uniresource clarification
19:05.04siggraphdid the log have anything useful to say?
19:05.09siggraphregarding those comments
19:05.11pooliowhich one?
19:05.30pooliothe changelog? haven't looked at it, should though :)
19:05.56siggraphthe commit log often has additional detail, particularly if it was temporary
19:06.51poolio"if a raytrace instance isn't being provided, we can/could presume that cleaning up after the directories is okay.  all of these issues stem from the two bu_ptbl_init() calls that do actually allocate memory (for the table).  leave the freeing uncommited for now, just with comments"
19:07.44pooliohmm, I'm still confused
19:08.37siggraphwho wrote that?
19:08.50siggraph(and when)
19:08.51poolioyou :)
19:08.58poolioSat May 19 07:00:15 2007 UTC (2 months, 2 weeks ago) by brlcad
19:09.04siggraphyou should go talk to that person and see what they meant
19:09.14poolioshouldn't I? :)
19:09.33siggraphwow, two months ago.. huh
19:09.56siggraphi'll poke and look .. gotta run for a bit
19:10.02pooliok
19:11.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: turn off opennurbs for now by default until work is more active again. opennurbs needs libz apparently, so include that as well as a dep.
19:15.35pooliosomehow or another I still had rt_free_rti instead of rt_clean...I don't understand. I could have sworn I've changed that a billion times...
19:15.52louipcit keeps changing back?
19:16.03poolioor more likely, I've lost my mind
19:16.12poolioah crap. I see...I was editing in the wrong build tree. d'oh.
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19:51.43ertugerata<PROTECTED>
19:51.43ertugerataInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Detached
19:52.08ertugerata?
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21:19.44pooliosiggraph: there's some sort of weird leak where the databases aren't being close because "others are still using this database"  and I think that might have to do with the whole directory blocks thing
21:23.29poolioerr nevermind.
21:41.26pooliosiggraph: is there a reason there is no bu_semaphore_free?
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16:11.36pooliorawr. I broke my debian install :\
16:16.41``Erikheh, sweet
16:18.12poolioI've been fixing it since like 2am.
16:18.30poolioand then my LCD went haywire, but then magically started working again
16:18.36poolioso I made sure to image my HD while I slept...
16:19.02``Erikso, uh
16:19.04``Erikwhy'd you break it?
16:19.04``Erik:D
16:19.08poolioI didn't mean to
16:19.22poolioI was trying to run something and it required an older version of gcc
16:19.31poolioand then my whole libc was somehow corrupted
16:19.35poolioand the apt tools wouldn't run
16:20.00poolioso I was planning on reinstalling after I was done working this summer, but I decided to just go ahead and do it being as the system was pretty not functional
16:20.01``Erikneat
16:20.03siggraphgood morning peopls
16:20.06``Erikdpkg stuff was broken, too?
16:20.07pooliomornin siggraph
16:20.09pooliohow's siggraph
16:20.20poolio``Erik: it wasn't broken, it just wouldn't fix the libc issue
16:20.28siggraphabout to listen to what is probably the best paper
16:20.31poolioor I should say I couldn't
16:20.36poolio...jealous
16:20.38poolioand which paper is that?
16:20.44``Erik'ways to make bzflag suck less'? *duck* :D
16:20.54siggraphautomatic cutaway illustrations
16:21.06``Erikhm, sounds interesting
16:21.23siggraphit's *impressive*
16:21.32siggraphs/automatic/interactive/
16:21.52poolioyou don't by any chance have a link to the paper?
16:22.55siggraphthis is related: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1276377.1276416&coll=portal&dl=ACM&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618
16:23.21siggraphthe results made the siggraph cover
16:23.58poolioneat
16:25.42pooliosiggraph: you ever figure out where to put the freeing of re_directory_blocks?
16:42.10siggraphpoolio: eh, I've just now touched my laptop since the last time I talked to you, a bit busy :)
16:43.11siggraphthat was a good paper.. we can implement it pretty easily too I think -- very useful
16:46.48pooliosiggraph: alrighty
16:47.22pooliosiggraph: it appears most of the memory leaks are cleared up. the program eats up all my RAM but it never exceeds it and never goes into swap. It hovers right around 990/1024MB
16:47.44pooliothe bad thing is that the tests still aren't promising. even with the two-sphere trivial case it's hardly coming close to converging
17:13.31poolioSHIT
17:13.35poolioMy display is spazing out again
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18:10.37poolioeeeeeeeek.
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18:36.09ertugeratasalut
19:03.00ertugeratadans mon system iwidgets and urt exist , si j'utilse parametre --enable-build-urt=no and --enable-iwidgets-build=no configure script corrupt.
19:21.51poolioanother bug bites the dust :)
19:22.48poolioertugerata: qu'est-ce que vous voulez dire avec "corrupt" ?
19:23.18ertugerataconfigure est termine
19:23.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: free mro structure
19:24.15poolioertugerata: avec quoi? est-ce qu'il ya un erreur ou quelque chose?
19:24.40pooliolire "config.log" pour plus d'information sur la configuartion
19:25.01ertugerataon ne trove pas iwidgets and urt quand meme existe dans mon system
19:25.10poolioah d'accord
19:25.22ertugerataet aussi http://rafb.net/p/RJy0VK85.html tu peut voire ça
19:25.27pooliomerci
19:26.26pooliohmm, je ne suis pas sure, desole. je pense que c'est un probleme avec la versione de Tk que vous avez, mais je ne sais pas
19:27.25ertugeratapoolio: merci
19:27.34pooliobon chance :)
19:28.05ertugeratamon tk a 8.5alpha6 version
19:28.13poolioje pense que ca c'est d'accord
19:28.28poolioetes-vous utilisant CVS?
19:28.42ertugeratano source 7.10
19:29.13ertugerataCVS correct ou no ?
19:29.39poolioje pense que CVS est meilleur
19:29.58poolioibot: cvs?
19:29.59ibotit has been said that cvs is concurrent versions systems.  more info here http://www.cvshome.org/.
19:29.59ertugeratahmm
19:30.04poolio...
19:30.10poolioertugerata: un moment
19:30.26pooliohttp://www.brlcad.org/build_CVS.html
19:30.52poolioc'est possible que CVS marche meilleur pour vous
19:31.13ertugeratamerci bien
19:33.51pooliosiggraph: only bugs left are the re_directory_block and a tiny chunk for bu_semaphore, bu_semaphore_free exists but it's defined out for some reason
19:47.08``Erikfunny, I've been working on trying to get all that tcl 'junk' to use system shtuff today :) still haven't gotten iwidgets working against it, I think the tests don't grab the right libs? O.o
19:47.37poolioheh, so you guys are further away from release than I thought?
19:48.29poolioertugerata: est-ce que vous comprenez?
19:48.56ertugeratapoolio: download CVs maintenant
19:49.12ertugeratapuis je vais builder
19:49.17poolioertugerata: d'accord, mais ``Erik dit que CVS ne marche pas
19:49.33poolioil est un developer et il travaille sur la meme probleme
19:49.41ertugeratahmm
19:49.50ertugeratamerci bien
19:50.15poolioil dit que maintenant, ce n'est pas possible d'utiliser la versione de iwidgets avec votre systeme
19:50.31poolioil faut qu'on utilise iwidgets en BRL-CAD
19:50.45ertugerataurt ?
19:50.47poolioje ne sais pas avec urt
19:50.54poolio``Erik: you know if system urt works?
19:51.06``Erikyes, that's fine
19:51.45poolioertugerata: ^^ urt doit marcher
19:52.03ertugerataquand source sync vith cvs ?
19:52.08ertugeratapoolio: merci
19:52.24poolioertugerata: hmm...un nouveua release est proche, mais je ne sais pas quand exactement
19:52.41``ErikURT has worked with the last many releases, back to the 7.4.0 days that I know of
19:53.11ertugerataC'est bien. poolio
19:53.13poolioertugerata: URT doit marcher avec les source que vous avez (pas CVS)
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19:53.27poolio7.10 source doit marcher
19:53.36pooliodoit mais c'est possible qu'il ne marche pas :)
19:53.53ertugeratapoolio: j'essaye mais ne maarche pas
19:54.09ertugeratapeut-etre mon urt a des probleme ?
19:54.13poolioqu'est-ce que c'est l'erreur avec URT?
19:54.15poolioc'est possible
19:54.22``Erikyes, http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/Makefile?annotate=1.9
19:54.50``Erik7.6.0 was when I can confirm that system URT has worked :)
19:55.07poolioest-ce que vous pouvez mettre config.log sur http://rafb.net/paste ?
19:55.22poolioou la partie de configure avec le URT erreur
19:55.43poolio``Erik: fixed that bug with attr_values we were looking at the othe rday
19:55.58ertugeratapoolio: je l'ai perdu
19:56.05``Erikcool, what was it?
19:56.42poolioertugerata: je ne peux pas vous aider si je n'ai pas l'erreur, est-ce que c'est possible de ./configure encore?
19:56.46poolio(pardonner mon franglais)
19:57.30poolio``Erik: it just wasn't being freed properly on rt_clean(). It just ran bu_mro_free which assumes that the mro struct was allocated in the stack, so I had to bu_free() the mro struct along with bu_mro_free()ing it
19:57.47pooliojust commit'ed it a sec ago
19:58.02``Erikah, the cleaning *SHOULD* happen in prep...
19:58.10``Erikif I read the code right
19:58.14ertugeratapoolio: je vais reprodure dans 5 minete
19:58.28ertugerataminute
19:59.41poolioertugerata: merci beaucoup
20:00.12poolio``Erik: hmm? what cleaning? the mro struct should be free'd in rt_prep?
20:01.34``Erikum, I mean the attr stuff, but I gotcha know, missed that :)
20:03.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: assume OpenBSD 4+ can deal with dots in the .so name
20:03.46poolio``Erik: any clue on this http://rafb.net/p/nE7AV443.html ... hard to debug :P
20:04.27``Erikdo you have a debugging libc handy? or, um
20:04.35poolionope
20:04.43``Erikuse, uh, nm to get symbol addy's and try to match those addresses to a name
20:04.48``Erikor objdump
20:04.53poolioah k
20:05.19``Erikassuming those aren't munged by relocation
20:05.20``Erik:(
20:07.23pooliohmm it looks like it's shifted or something?
20:07.38pooliolike objdump -x address don't correspond to valgrind output
20:07.47``Erikok, then it's been relocated
20:08.16``Erikif you can shove a debugging libc on and link (or prebind) it, then the stabs info will tell you the function name
20:08.23``Erikuhm
20:08.31pooliohmm, that's a bit over my head
20:08.32``Erikor it'll have it avialable, I dunno if valgrind is that cool
20:08.48poolioI think I'll let it be for now :)
20:08.53``ErikSTABS is a format for debugging data
20:09.00``Erikkinda like COFF and DWARF
20:09.04pooliok
20:09.33ertugeratapoolio: tres long
20:09.43poolioertugerata: je sais :)
20:09.45ertugerataje l'envoie ici
20:10.08poolioou?
20:10.09ertugerataaccept svp
20:10.15ertugeratairc
20:10.24poolioun moment
20:12.42poolioertugerata: ah envoi un autre fois s'il vous plait
20:13.12poolioca dit que vous avez mettre invalid parameters
20:13.18poolioenvoi par e-mail :)
20:13.20ertugeratapoolio: je l'envoie
20:13.38ertugeratamail adress ?
20:14.04``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/dc727094 heh, takes a long time :)
20:15.56poolioeeek I'd imagine
20:18.18``Erik<-- doing that after every change to configure.ac :/ trying to get iwidgets to pass
20:18.29pooliolame.
20:18.39pooliowhat system you on?
20:18.54``Erikquad opteron with 8g ram, it's a pretty beefy footrest
20:19.47``Erikthe nfs hit for my ~ is probably the big sticker
20:22.53``Erikhum, storm moving in, I'll have to roll up my windows soon
20:23.27poolioWhich way is it moving?
20:23.43``Erikeast
20:23.46``Erikhttp://www.weather.com/weather/map/interactive/21005?from=36hour_map_large&zoom=7&interactiveMapLayer=radar
20:25.01pooliohmmm
20:29.48pooliohey ``Erik, I'm trying to help ertugerata with getting his system URT working
20:30.08``Erikok?
20:30.09poolioit fails the test in configure but when he runs the code snippet outside of configure it works fine
20:30.22``Erikwhat's config.log say about it?
20:31.11pooliohttp://rafb.net/p/P7DvzS47.html
20:31.51``Erikthe error will be up, search backwards for lrle or cc or something, or just scroll up
20:31.52poolioHAVE_RLE_H = 1
20:32.06pooliooh dur
20:32.07pooliothanks
20:32.13``Erikthe format is "try to compile, show the error, print out the program I tried o do"
20:32.13``Erik:)
20:33.06pooliohmm
20:33.18poolioso if the proper libray isn't linked then it should be added?
20:33.30``Erikin theory...
20:33.50``Erikis it not named 'librle.so'?
20:34.40pooliothere's no librle.so being linke dto
20:35.11``Erikinteresting
20:35.45``Erikit should try -lutahrle, then -lrle if that fails
20:36.11``Erikaround line 1305 of configure.ac
20:36.33pooliohttp://rafb.net/p/3z6XZ659.html
20:36.42``Erikthere's also some testing around 2350
20:37.04poolioah I see, he needs -L/usr/lib not just -L/usr/local/lib
20:37.35``Erikld should know /usr/lib by default
20:37.35``Erikum
20:38.11``Erikon leenewx, it used to be /etc/ld.so.conf I think?
20:38.11``Erikit's still that on bsd *shrug*
20:39.54poolio``Erik: well the issue is it doesnt look like it's trying to link against rle
20:41.00``Erikyes, you should crack open configure in your favorite editor, go to that line and see why :D
20:41.11pooliorawr.
20:41.49``Erikwhile I prepare to put a boot up tcl's tailpipe for vexing me :)
20:41.50``Erikunless, of course you have a fix for: can't read "tcl_library": no such variable
20:42.27poolioI do. create a tcl_library variable.
20:43.04``Erikhehehe it's supposed to be created by Tcl_CreateInterp(), and that does get called and succeeds
20:43.19``Erik(and I think the variable is in tcl land, not C land)
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21:05.06``Erikwow, that got ugly fast
21:06.46``Erikyeah, brlcad is gonna crap himself when I commit this... MWAHAHAHAHA
21:09.48poolioruh roh.
21:10.01pooliowhile brlcad is out ``Erik will play
21:10.26ertugeratail ya une problem avec enigma en CVS ?
21:10.40poolioavec enigma?
21:11.28ertugeratapas problem je crois
21:11.40pooliod'accord?
21:11.47ertugerataautıogen.sh ne marche pas just
21:11.58ertugerataje vais faire demain
21:12.00poolioquelle est l'erreur?
21:12.03poolioah d'accord :)
21:12.33ertugerataoui
21:12.48ertugerataje vais dormir je suis tres fatigue
21:12.55ertugerataa bientot
21:13.00pooliomais oui, au revoir
21:13.49*** part/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.224.38.9)
21:14.59``Erikhah
21:15.02``Erikwhat timing
21:15.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
21:15.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: Several fixes for the Iwidgets test: link itcl, initialize tcl before itcl, and
21:15.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: search the 'package names' even if the 'package require' claims to have failed
21:15.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: (TK version issue caused require to report failure, but actually succeed).
21:21.59pooliohehe
21:22.32poolioit's still not too ugly
21:23.24``Erikthe ternary to pump strtok is the only bit that might skeer newbs, I'd hope
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070808

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070808

00:26.08*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
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06:27.12pooliosiggraph: AHA! AHA!!!
06:27.47pooliosiggraph: I finally figured out why the GA wasn't really working and now I want to shoot myself. It was actually working pretty well, the issue is that it has a hard time dealing with source objects with a lot of empty space
06:28.21poolioBecause there was so much empty space in my two seperated spheres trials, the network had a hard time. It was being rewarded largely for not matching at all (lots of similar empty space)
06:28.53poolioTesting it on a cluster of 3 spheres works out nicely, the GA does produce better results as the generations increase :D
06:29.55poolioI want to shoot myself for just sticking to using that one example as a benchmark for the past few weeks.
06:30.08poolioI always assumed it was the code that was at fault and not the test data.
06:45.56pooliosiggraph: pretty graph if you ever read this: http://poolio.org/files/working.png
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14:11.55pooliomornin
14:17.19``Erikoi
14:18.50pooliooy vey?
14:24.40``Erikheh, I spell mine japanese style, sorry :) lots of cultures have the same sound with roughly the same meaning
14:30.14pooliooy.
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15:54.27pooliohey ``Erik, do you know if there's a way to find a kind of "bogus" union...between an object and another object that fits inside that other object?
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16:00.18poolioThe CIA is going crazy.
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16:48.47``Erikpoolio:not mathematically, but it could be sampled with buttloads of rays
16:49.29``Erikbrlcad had a slew of csg optimizations scribbled on his whiteboard at one point, that may've been part of the tree reduction stuff :/ *shrug*
16:50.41poolioheh alright> i've though about it and decided that I actually want to allow that behavior
16:50.44poolioso yeah :)
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17:15.44poolio``Erik: stupid question, how can I save the framebuffer from mged?
17:23.08poolioerr nevermind, I just took a screenshot
17:23.16pooliohttp://poolio.org/files/cone.png
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18:01.59*** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.230.240.109)
18:02.05ertugeratasalut
18:07.36ertugerataenfin j'ai fini compile et install brlcad
18:08.22``Erikheh, 'shitty ftpd'... you had will to write code in java at some point??? :)
18:08.36poolio``Erik: I had a class in it ...
18:08.41poolioIt made me stupider.
18:09.06``Erikstriving for mediocrity, yes
18:09.19poolioalways.
18:09.30pooliojmario: 2d mario-clone in Java. died with my will to write code in Java.
18:09.54``Erikfor real, right? not the bass ackwards subset they teach in classes?
18:10.29ertugerataen CVS, je ne peux pas build opennurbs ?
18:11.31``Erikhum, babelfish kinda ate that one
18:11.32poolio``Erik: errr, I'm learning it on my own. I have to take a data structures class in Java sometime though
18:12.02poolioertugerata: tu peut mais ce n'est pas "active" en la "default" versione
18:12.20ertugeratahmm
18:12.30pooliofaire comme "--enable-opennurbs-build
18:12.32poolio"
18:12.39``Eriksicp is a good book, um, and free video lectures by the dudes at http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/
18:12.43ertugerataen config.log il ya
18:12.44poolio./configure --enable-opennurbs-build
18:12.55poolio``Erik: that's what I'm working trhough, I'll check out the lectures later
18:13.01poolioI really hvae no time now though :\
18:13.29``Erikthe videos are the lectures to go with the sicp, might as well do 'em at the same time :)
18:13.39``Erikwhich scheme are you using? drscheme out of rice?
18:13.48ertugerataconfigure:45666: result: Build openNURBS.......................: no (doing without, BREP unsupported) poolio
18:15.45``Erikertugerata: do you have emmintrin.h ?
18:16.27ertugeratadans quel package a emmintrin.h ?
18:17.06``Erik<-- bsd user, does not know linux
18:17.40ertugeratain bsd quel source ?
18:18.59``Erik/usr/include/emmintrin.h  (it comes from gcc)
18:19.45ertugerata/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/include/emmintrin.h
18:19.46ertugerata/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/install-tools/include/emmintrin.h
18:20.05ertugeratain gcc ici
18:23.06``Erikredhat... ./configure --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/HEAD --enable-opennurbs-build
18:23.07``ErikBuild openNURBS.......................: yes
18:23.16``Erik$ locate emmintrin.h
18:23.19``Erik/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/3.4.3/include/emmintrin.h
18:23.24``Erik/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-redhat-linux/4.1.1/include/emmintrin.h
18:24.13``Erik:/
18:24.33poolio``Erik: mit-scheme
18:24.35``Erik$ grep header_emmintrin config.log
18:24.35``Erikac_cv_header_emmintrin_h=yes
18:25.46``Erikpoolio: I wasn't thrilled by mit-scheme... drscheme is kinda a nice ide thing going and a funky 'trace' thing that actually draws arrows on the code... 'gauche' and 'chicken' are neat
18:27.59``Erikoh, and 'slime48' looks interesting if you're an emacs user who could tolerate scheme48
18:29.00poolionah, not yet an emacs user
18:29.34``Erik<-- vimmer and proud... tried to learn emacs for slime... *shrug* I guess I'm editor retarded or something
18:31.07pooliooh yeah, I did try emacs + slime way back when
18:33.42ertugeratapoolio: je dois faire patch configure.ac for openurbs ou je coprends mal ?
18:35.11poolio``Erik: what were you trying to tell ertugerata about open nurbs?
18:35.43``Erikit's trying to enable it, the only test that could fail that would be if emmintrins.h isn't happy
18:35.58``Erikemmintrin.h rather
18:36.11``ErikI think
18:36.54``Erik(don't know why anyone would want the open nurbs stuff yet, it's not very wired in...)
18:37.58ertugerataopennurbs a quel fonction? si il n'existe pas mged ne marche pas bien ?
18:39.38``Erikok, babel fish made a mess of that one, too :)
18:45.42ertugeratapoolio: dans ton system ilya une file en /etc/env.d nomme comme 50brlcad ?
18:45.45poolioertugerata: mged marche bien sans opennurbs. opennurbs ne marche pas maintenant, c'est normale que opennurbs est disable
18:46.00poolioerr je n'ai pas /etc/env.d
18:46.15ertugeratapoolio: je fait enable opennurbs
18:47.35``Erik(just recently, brlcad changed the opennurbs default from 'auto' to 'no' in cvs, jlowenz has moved to cooler projects in a cooler group)
18:47.41ertugeratadans /etc il ya une dossier pour environment ?
18:47.44poolioertugerata: non non, opennurbs ne fonctionne pas bien, il est meilleur si tu n'enable pas
18:48.04poolioerrr non?
18:48.11poolioil y a un ~/.bashrc
18:48.29ertugeratapaste moi ton bashrc
18:48.59ertugeratapoolio: il y aune lisence problem pour opennurbs ?
18:49.08poolionon ?
18:49.16poolioopennurbs ne marche pas pour tout le monde
18:49.34ertugeratahmm
18:49.36pooliola seule chose de BRL-CAD en .bashrc est
18:49.43poolioPATH="/usr/brlcad/bin:$PATH"
18:49.52poolioertugerata: mged marche bien sans opennurbs
18:50.03ertugeratamerci bien je vais faire disable
18:50.10``ErikMANPATH, too... and sometimes LD_LIBRARY_PATH, though that can easily be done to ld.so.conf as well
18:50.10poolioc'est rien
18:50.18ertugeratapour lib ?
18:50.29ertugerataLDPATH ?
18:51.09``Erikon some systems, the rpath in the binaries doesn't get there or isn't respected, so it complains about missing  libraries. I'm sure linux doesn't have that issue... :)
18:51.53``Erikbut the MANPATH is good to have, BRL-CAD has pretty decent man pages
18:53.17poolioertugerata: il n y a pas plus de changed, seulement PATH, et si tu veut les "man pages" ajouter MANPATH
18:54.16``Erikpoor ben, stuck translating :D
18:55.02poolioeh it's nothing, glad I can actually do something helfpul :)
18:55.31poolioalso makes me feel like those years spent studying french weren't such a waste after all
18:56.04``Erikmy years were studying japanese, but I'd be effed if someone wanted me to translate, I only remember a few choice ... phrases... :)
19:33.18``ErikHAH
19:33.23``Erikhttp://drj11.wordpress.com/2007/04/02/subclassing-javaawtpaint/
19:34.45``Erikabout halfway down, he snarfed the camo algorithm out of BRL-CAD
19:39.01ertugerata./usr/brlcad/bin/rt:  MGED database not specified ?
19:40.20poolio``Erik: atleast he gives BRL-CAD credit
19:41.14``Erik/usr/brlcad/bin/rt -F/dev/Xl /usr/brlcad/share/db/havoc.g havoc
19:42.02ertugerata``Erik: hmm je vais faire essayer
19:42.41ertugeratahmm
19:42.56*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
19:43.03ertugeratamy database ici: /usr/share/db
19:43.29``Erikrt dossier.g objets...
19:44.21ertugeratatout et dans /usr/share/db
19:45.02ertugerata30 dossier.g existe
19:46.21``Erik"havoc.g" has an object named "havoc". "sphflake.g" has an object named "scene.r"
19:46.53``Erik"rt /path/to/havoc.g havoc" "rt /path/to/sphflake.g scene.r"
19:46.54ertugeratacomment je peux savoir
19:47.37``Erikmged -c /path/to/dossier.g tops
19:48.37``Erikor: "mged", "file->open", choose, type "tops" in the command window
19:49.23ertugeratahmm
19:50.22poolioertugerata: quel est la probleme?
19:51.03``Erik"-c" means classic mode and allows MGED commands to be issued from the shell command line
19:51.07ertugeratapoolio: benchmark ne trouve a-pas databese and rt aussi
19:53.41poolioquel est l'erreur avec benchmark?
19:54.41ertugeratang [/usr/brlcad/bin/rt] for RT
19:54.42ertugerataERROR:  Could not find the BRL-CAD database directory
19:55.36``Erikif that's about "make benchmark", I always have to set variables like DBDIR and PIXDIR
19:55.56poolioertugerata: c'est neccesaire de modifier les variables DBDIR et PIXDIR
19:55.59ertugeratain bashrc =
19:56.07ertugerataou ?
19:56.09pooliosi tu veut
19:56.12poolioou comme
19:56.20poolioDBDIR="/usr/share/db" benchmark
19:56.28ertugeratahmm
19:57.00``Erikerm
19:57.02``Eriksorry
19:57.03``ErikDB
19:57.05pooliothats wrong
19:57.06poolioyeah
19:57.10ertugeratawrong
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19:57.30``Erikit's inconsistent :( PIXDIR and DB both talking about directories?
19:58.36``ErikI build out of dir (in /usr/tmp/username/brlcadbuild) and this is why my benchmark attempt looks like... $ PIXDIR=~/src/brlcad/pix CMP=/usr/brlcad/bin/pixcmp RT=/usr/brlcad/bin/rt DB=$PWD/db/ ~/src/brlcad/bench/run.sh
19:58.37``ErikO.o
19:59.21pooliowhat about 'benchmark' ?
19:59.32ertugerata<PROTECTED>
19:59.53poolio``Erik: is DB pointing to where the databases are stored
20:00.09``Erik'make benchmark' is just (cd bench && ./run.sh) or something
20:00.47``Erikthe .g files have to be in $DB/  ... so 'make clean' would have broken that
20:02.27poolioertugerata: est-ce que tu as fait 'make clean'
20:02.58ertugeratapoolio: j'ai compris maintenant
20:03.19ertugeratapix est danl le source ?
20:03.21pooliod'accord?
20:03.28poolioquoi?
20:03.28ertugerataoui
20:03.47poolioest-ce que benchmark marche maintenant?
20:03.55ertugerataje vais essayer
20:04.00poolioalors
20:04.11ertugerataje crosi que ça marche
20:07.30pooliobien
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21:59.54dtidrowanybody watching the shuttle launch?
22:08.36poolioeeek. the shuttle is launching?
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22:27.22dtidrowpoolio: yep, launches in about 9 minutes
22:34.22pooliodtidrow: what channel/station?
22:37.17dtidrow_workwww.nasa.gov
22:37.41dtidrow_worksorry, was distracted
22:38.58yukonbobhttp://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
22:40.33poolioup up and away. Missed take off, just read it :\
22:42.49louipchow long does it take to exit the atmosphere?
22:47.38dtidrow_workpoolio: sorry about that  :-\
22:48.11dtidrow_workthey usually do a replay of the launch in a half-hour or so
22:48.49poolioeh I'll catch it on the 11 o' clock news or something
22:49.51``Erikso it's in stable orbit and opened up now?
22:50.01dtidrow_workpfft - they'll hardly mention it
22:50.15dtidrow_work``Erik: they're in orbit
22:50.33dtidrow_workstill taking pics of the tank
22:50.47``Erikthey launch a lot and have an astoundingly good track record given how experimental and archaic it all is, but it's always good to hear that they made it up safe
22:50.53dtidrow_workthey open the doors in an hour or so
22:51.53louipcarchaic?
22:52.16pooliohmm...anyone have a fast box they want to lone to me?
22:52.37dtidrow_worklouipc: yeah, most of the Shuttle was designed in the mid-70's
22:53.27louipcso was BRLCAD eh? /haha
22:53.38dtidrow_workheh
22:54.01louipcthey've upgraded things I hope
22:56.28``Erikthey're buying used 70's microchips off of ebay to keep the shuttles running
22:56.53``Erik(now true, they WORK and it's awfully hard to get a rad/temp proofed microchip)
22:56.59louipc:O
22:57.31dtidrow_workpoolio: they're doing some launch replays now
23:25.28siggraphPIXDIR?
23:25.34siggraphyou're making up variables ``Erik
23:26.06siggraphit's just PIX and DB and ... man benchmark
23:27.24siggraphyou should only have to set them if benchmark isn't installed, and maybe if you're building out of dir
23:28.11siggraphalso on cvs head opennurbs was turned off by default (and unless they're writing code, there's absolutely no reason for them to enable it)
23:35.03pooliosiggraph:  ahoy!
23:35.24pooliosiggraph: did you read my "aha!" moment?
23:37.03siggraphyep
23:37.11siggraphlike the cone :)
23:37.28siggraphthat's great
23:38.24pooliojust finished adding support for scaling to both bounding boxes
23:38.26pooliowell it kind of cheats
23:38.32poolioactually it's an awful hackish solution, but it works
23:38.50CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03poolio * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/ (beset.c fitness.c population.c beset.h fitness.h): fitness now scales to union of bounding boxes. other slight modifications
23:39.03poolioInstead of shooting rays to find the union of the bounding boxes, I just create a box that encloses the two bounding boxes
23:39.39poolioand divides the number of similar rays by the rays shot in the (overly large encompassing) bounding box
23:39.44pooliodoes that make any sense?
23:40.45siggraph"shooting rays to find the union of the bounding boxes" -- what's that mean?
23:41.01pooliosiggraph: I doubt you have any time now, but I'd like to try some larger-scale tests on more complex data and am short on CPU power. Maybe early next week you could perform some trial runs or give me access to a more powerful box. It's taking a quite large population and a lot of generations to even closely match the source
23:41.15pooliosiggraph: well, I actually wouldn't need to shoot rays, sorry
23:41.24pooliobut finding the volume of the union of the two bounding boxes
23:41.34siggraphwhat two bounding boxes?
23:41.40siggraphi'm missing some context
23:41.41pooliothe input and the individuals
23:42.03poolioAlright so when I raytrace, I used a fixed bounding box that is the same for all shapes (that bounding box is the bounding box of the original source object)
23:42.21siggraphsure
23:42.52poolioAs you talked about earlier, it's kind of cropping the individual. So for example lets say your source is an rpp, any giant shape would pretty much be a perfect fit
23:43.16siggraphyep
23:43.36poolioso to counteract that I'm now scaling it by the union of the source bounding box and the individuals bounding box
23:43.39poolioideally they'd be the same
23:43.48poolioand if it's smaller there is no effect
23:43.58siggraphscaling what?
23:44.05pooliothe fitness value
23:44.29poolioheh I am having issues finding the wording
23:45.13pooliobut if the rays from the source and the individual are the same, I increment the fitness by the length of the ray which they are similar in
23:45.41siggraphso you're still generating a fitness based on rays fired on source to rays fired on sample, but then scaling that fitness based on the ratio of their respective bounding boxes
23:45.49pooliowell no
23:46.04poolioorignally it was similar_value/#rays fired
23:46.09pooliosorry no
23:46.17pooliosimilar_value/(#rays fired * length of rays)
23:46.29poolioso basically similar rays / (volume or maximum value it could be)
23:46.49poolionow it's similar rays / (volume of large bounding box that encompasses the union of both bounding boxes)
23:47.17poolioDoes that make sense?
23:48.09siggraphhm, I think so
23:48.22poolioIdeally it'd be similar rays / (volume of union of both bounding boxes)
23:48.35pooliowhere volume is going to heavily depend on # rays fired...not the actual volume of the object
23:48.42pooliomoreso the maximum fitness that could be attained
23:48.46siggraphI think that might actually be the same end-result to what I'd said
23:48.49poolio(if there was an exact atch)
23:48.54siggraphjust operations applied in a different order
23:48.56poolioYeah probably :)
23:49.09poolioI can't think of a good way to decompose similar rays / (volume of union of both bounding boxes)
23:49.54poolioThe code for it is pretty hackish. I was just trying to get it working. It works pretty well. See: the cone
23:50.08siggraphso .. does it actually converge on one/two/three sphere(s)?
23:50.25siggraphthe cone is looking MUCH better
23:50.39siggraphsort of like it's starting to work, though still not quite there :)
23:50.41poolioAlso, if you don't have the right number of shapes or the GA has proposed a good solution with less shapes than the individual is made out of it essentially "hides" those spheres. By either shrinking them or putthing them within another sphere
23:50.52poolioIt doesn't really converge
23:51.04poolioIt finds solutions that visually make sense, but it's not waht you want.
23:51.21poolioAnd the main reason it wasn't working well is that it doesn't deal very well when a large % of the input is empty space
23:52.15poolioI'm not sure if it would converge, I've run stuff for ~1 hour and it's slowly getting better. The issue is my laptop goes through a meltdown...  I have to run to dinner now but I'll start up a longer run
23:52.34poolioand one sphere does converge.
23:53.04poolioTwo spheres seems to like having one large ellipse cover both spheres and then there are a lot of tiny spheres around it that have yet to be cleaned up (but probably would be if the network ran longer)
23:53.14poolioI'll try a run on two spheres slightly seperated while I'm at dinner.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070809

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070809

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12:07.35``Erikbrlcad: doh, I dunno how PIXDIR slipped in there... mebbe it's my assumption of convention (y'know, directories have DIR on the end, non-directories don't?)
12:08.05``Erikactually, that convention breakage got me while building up that string, I had something like RT=/usr/brlcad/bin/rt CMP=/usr/brlcad/bin
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16:50.59*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070810

06:07.07*** join/#brlcad yukonbob_ (n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
07:00.11*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
10:01.53*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669315.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
10:01.53*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=sengun@berlin.ethz.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
11:08.45*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-079-063.pools.arcor-ip.net)
13:53.30*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874074.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:37.48*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
16:52.57*** join/#brlcad LinuxMafia (n=awatt@CPE001346a4c4cb-CM00159a642d7e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
16:53.03LinuxMafiahi
16:53.13LinuxMafiaany one in here
16:54.28poolioallo
16:54.38LinuxMafiahow can i see the axis with size on them
16:54.42poolioIt's my last day of work :)
16:54.42LinuxMafiapoolio, hi
16:54.49LinuxMafiaoh
16:54.57LinuxMafiaare you happy?
16:55.42LinuxMafiai want something that helps me positioning the shapes
16:55.42poolioYes, there's tons more to be done though...
16:55.47dtidrow_workpoolio: where are you headed next?
16:55.51poolioYou can enable the grid?
16:55.53pooliodtidrow_work: school :)
16:56.16LinuxMafiapoolio, i did click show grid , but it does not show it
16:56.23pooliono? it works fine here
16:56.28pooliomaybe you're zoomed in too far
16:56.37poolio(the grid size is too large?)
16:57.30pooliodtidrow_work: I'll probalby try to finish up the project that I'm working on sometime in the future when I have free time
16:57.30LinuxMafiapoolio, i set the grid spacing to 1mm
16:58.08poolioModes -> Draw grid?
16:58.51LinuxMafiapoolio, yeah i have it ticked
16:59.19pooliohmm not sure
16:59.28poolioI may be a developer but I know less about mged than most users
16:59.30LinuxMafiapoolio, oh i got it now
16:59.49LinuxMafiapoolio, it was because of grid spacing
16:59.57LinuxMafiai set it to auto spacing
17:00.03poolioyep yep :)
17:00.39LinuxMafiapoolio, but it is 2d
17:01.00LinuxMafiait wont help you to position any thing
17:03.41LinuxMafiathat sux
17:04.16LinuxMafiaand there is no grid on other windows when i choose multiple mode
17:06.10LinuxMafiahum
17:09.42pooliosorry
17:10.16LinuxMafiathat is ok
17:10.28LinuxMafiai think i have to move from view to view
17:13.33LinuxMafiais there any way to attach command window
17:13.41LinuxMafiato graphic window?
17:13.54LinuxMafialike command window apper at bottom
17:14.03LinuxMafia?
17:14.04*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
17:14.24LinuxMafiawb dtidrow
17:14.31LinuxMafiaready to answer?
17:15.54poolioLinuxMafia: have you read the tutorials?
17:16.03dtidrow_workactualy I just set up my laptop
17:16.14LinuxMafiapoolio, i am reading it
17:16.19LinuxMafiavolume III
17:16.35LinuxMafiadtidrow, congras
17:16.42dtidrowheh
17:16.47LinuxMafiapoolio, i am reading the pipe thing
17:17.01LinuxMafiadtidrow, congrajs
17:17.25LinuxMafiapoolio, is there other tutorials?
17:23.46poolioeh not sure
17:28.18LinuxMafiapoolio, what is the C code is doing there
17:28.32pooliowhere?
17:28.43LinuxMafiain tutorial
17:28.51poolioI have no clue, I'm not reading a tutorial
17:28.57poolioand no offense, but I don't really have time at the moment
17:29.06poolioI'd wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to return to IRC
17:29.17LinuxMafiaoh cool
17:29.22LinuxMafiai will just practice
17:29.29LinuxMafiathanks alot do
17:45.21*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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20:02.33MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you there?
20:04.06dtidrow_workhe's probably flying back from SIGGRAPH
20:04.25MinuteElectronoh, ok
20:04.26poolioI felt like he was home :P
20:04.37dtidrow_workis he already?
20:04.46poolio20 minutes ago he changed his nick back to brlcad...
20:04.53dtidrow_workheh
20:05.03dtidrow_workguess so, the  :-)
20:05.06dtidrow_workthen
20:05.15dtidrow_workwasn't paying attention
20:08.08``Erikmy mac broke :(
20:09.44MinuteElectronbrlcad: When you see this message could you give me some advice to the current state of LDAP and how you are getting on with integrating it with your other projects. That would be useful as I have a few days before I go on holiday again (for two weeks) and I might be able to get some work done. Right now I am going to do something else, since I only just got back.
20:23.23poolio``Erik: stinks. My friend's brand new macbook pro died yesterday :\
20:23.50poolio``Erik: "arb(shape): only 3 faces present
20:24.33dtidrowpoolio: ough!
20:24.37dtidrowpuch!
20:24.51dtidrowheh - fingers aren't working today...
20:24.55pooliothat doesn't make sense to me as to how that can occur? I'm mutating an RPP and I can only see how it could have 1 face or no faces...but not 3
20:25.10pooliodtidrow: heh, s'alright it's a friday :)
21:27.49*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.91.115.48)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070811

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070811

00:19.02dtidrowbtw, Judge Kimball has declared that Novell owns UNIX....
00:47.41*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
01:43.52*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:14.33*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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04:04.05*** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:44.23*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-166-235-44.dyn.iinet.net.au)
05:25.23CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: there is just one IF_ per interface -- if you don't want the ogl interface, then don't define IF_OGL .. this has nothing to do with IF_WGL
06:29.40*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-166-235-44.dyn.iinet.net.au)
06:40.19*** join/#brlcad jpjacobs (n=jpjacobs@dib.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be)
06:40.50jpjacobsHi! is there someone actually maintaining the .deb of BRL-CAD?
06:44.40brlcadon and off
06:44.46brlcadso, no not really :)
06:45.06MinuteElectronbrlcad: Hi,
06:45.10brlcadhey MinuteElectron
06:45.39MinuteElectronSee my message above :)
06:45.40brlcadI'm not home just yet to attend to a big laundry list of things -- including ldap unfortunately, but have seen some of the backlog
06:46.00MinuteElectronoh ok
06:46.11brlcadldap isn't going to be integrated with the "other projects" if you mean bzflag's ldap plans
06:46.12MinuteElectrondw
06:46.26brlcadonly the other brl-cad services, the four or so main sections
06:46.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: No, I was just wondering whether you had had any success with it yet.
06:47.03brlcadI successfully got it installed, and successfully verified that it installed correctly :)
06:47.11MinuteElectronAhh, OK.
06:47.23MinuteElectronThanks for the info.
06:47.29brlcadproper configuration is going to be a learning experience for me
06:47.36MinuteElectronSame here.
06:47.41brlcadfeel free to give it a try yourself if you want to play with it
06:47.49brlcadyou can educate me later :)
06:47.59MinuteElectron:) ok, I will try.
06:47.59brlcadotherwise, it's near the top of my list when I get back
06:48.20MinuteElectroncool
06:48.23brlcadlet me know if you need access or something, but I think you should be set
06:48.31MinuteElectronyep
06:49.03MinuteElectronbrlcad: Where was it installed to again?
06:49.03brlcadand .htaccess files should be good now
06:49.15brlcadi did verify that was working now
06:49.52brlcadwhich coincidentally broke about a half-dozen other resident sites on the server that had .htaccess files that weren't set up right =)
06:50.24MinuteElectronheh
06:53.15MinuteElectronYay! RewriteRules in .htacces work.
06:53.26MinuteElectronBaffles me why they didn't in httpd.conf
06:56.46MinuteElectronbrlcad: Please can you remind me of the path to the Apache conf files and the LDAP conf files.
08:10.08MinuteElectronbrlcad: Does there currently exist somewhere I can get all of the quotes?
08:25.48*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877EA4.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:43.07*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-031-007.pools.arcor-ip.net)
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12:11.17``ErikMinuteElectron: /usr/local/etc/{apache22,openldap}/
12:12.07*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-124-183.dyn.iinet.net.au)
12:14.49MinuteElectron``Erik: thanks.
14:21.28LinuxMafiahi
14:44.45*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877EA4.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:04.42LinuxMafiahi brlcad
15:04.51LinuxMafiahi ``Erik
15:05.19LinuxMafiais there any way to combine command window and gui window
15:05.35LinuxMafialike command window apear at bottom
15:11.12louipcI can kind of make it look like that with my window manager
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16:00.56LinuxMafialouipc, sorry i was not here , what window manager?
16:01.24louipcI use openbox
16:02.17louipcI can remove window decorations hehe looks pretty neat
16:02.50LinuxMafialouipc, i have it i guess but i need something like kde
16:03.03louipcwhy's that?
16:03.24LinuxMafiakde
16:03.34LinuxMafiais another window manager
16:03.41louipcwell I guess you need something to save window size, position, dimension
16:03.58louipckde is a full desktop environment
16:04.03LinuxMafialouipc, no no i really want to combine them
16:04.06LinuxMafialouipc, yes
16:04.46louipcI'm not a fan of those heh, so I just use a simple window manager
16:05.20LinuxMafialouipc, yeah i am using for my home pc
16:05.34LinuxMafiai know , if i work somewhere i dont need kde
16:31.13*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
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21:00.10Laniakea``Erik: OpenBSD... any success?
21:13.31LaniakeaGood that you still have those older 7.8.4 etc. files on the sourceforge site so that people who cannot use 7.10.0 can download these.
21:13.34Laniakea(like me)
21:16.48louipcyou can download really old versions can't you?
21:18.12``Eriknot yet, karel, but I committed to configure.ac something that I *THINK* might help
21:36.40Laniakea``Erik: so I should try CVS HEAD again and maybe it will work?
21:39.34``Erikif ya want *shrug* it's a guess on my part, though
21:42.57*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:56.12``Erikaren't we all?
21:57.20poolioI have a bug where fitness exceeds what is the theoretical maximum, and it takes something like an hour to reproduce ... so I'm having a hard time debugging
21:59.05``Erikthat's where debuggers come in really handy :)
21:59.14``Erikput a conditonal watch on the fitness value
21:59.22``Erikthen explore the program
22:01.23poolio``Erik: well...if it only shows itself after one hour without a debugger...how long is it goign to take with a debugger?
22:02.07``Erikum
22:02.22``Erikabout the same with an extra 'if' when you evaluate fitness?
22:02.41``Erikand you only do it once... then you learn what's going on and fix it... no need to run it over and over and over
22:02.43``Erikand over
22:02.44``Erikand
22:02.44``Erikover
22:02.51pooliowait, what exactly are you saying to do?
22:03.49``Erikrun gdb and type "help condition"?
22:03.56pooliothanks
22:06.36``Erikwhen the expression returns true, the debugger will stop the program and give you a prompt... then you can explore all the variables in the scope, the stack, wlak up frames and look at the variables in all their scopes, evaluate functions right there, ...
22:07.04poolioyeah, I need to learn more about debugging. thanks ``Erik
22:07.17``Erikmight be worth making a 'toy' program to debug to figure out how to use it
22:15.55MinuteElectronDamn LDAP, my puny mind can't take it.
22:16.33``Erikheh
22:16.38``Erikpheer the x509
22:54.10*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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23:51.29poolio``Erik: I'm still waiting on gdb to hit the breakpoint :\
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070812

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070812

00:13.23*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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03:07.01poolioheh ``Erik it's still going
03:07.05poolioI reckon it's around 3x slower
03:07.10poolio(in gdb)
06:20.12CIA-27libirc: 03l4m3rthanyou * r235 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/libIRC.h src/libIRC.cpp): eUnknown -> eUnknownCommand. eUnknown clashes with cURL.
09:08.55*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-111-67.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:51.39*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p54874EFB.dip.t-dialin.net)
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17:31.40*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
18:17.31louipcTwingy: hey I noticed a problem in the Makefile in samples/ and share/ of gcam
18:17.49Twingyoh?
18:18.04louipcTwingy: you have mkdir $DESTDIR$gcamfilesdir in install-gcamfilesDATA:
18:18.30TwingyI don't create the makefile, automake does
18:18.34louipcbut further up you have $gcamfilesdir=$DESTDIR/$prefix/$share
18:18.45louipcyeah you should change Makefile.in
18:18.53Twingygcamfilesdir = $(DESTDIR)$(prefix)/samples
18:19.06Twingyyea
18:19.09Twingygotcha
18:19.10louipcso it will install in $DESTDIR/$DESTDIR/$gcamfilesdir
18:19.15Twingyhaven't touched that in a while
18:19.21Twingythx
18:19.29louipcno prob
18:21.38louipcoh yeah that's right.. in share it's xmlfilesdir
18:23.23Twingyyep
18:23.47TwingyI need to put out another release this month
18:23.56louipcI'd like to install it all in /usr/share/gcam
18:24.03louipcI mean the data files
18:24.25louipcnice
18:24.28Twingyif prefix is left blank that seems reasonable
18:26.10louipcprefix needs to be set for the actual program to be able to find the files no?
18:29.33Twingyit defaults to /usr/local
18:29.54Twingyotherwise it uses whatever defined in prefix
18:30.05louipcyep
18:30.15Twingyanyway, I'm headed out to the garage to build a wheatstone for this pressure sensor
18:30.27louipcwheatstone? hmm
18:30.35Twingydifference amplifier
18:30.53Twingycheap op-amps usually have maximum gain of ~100, I need ~1000
18:31.04louipc:D
18:31.10louipcok have fun
18:31.14louipcwant me to make a patch?
18:31.35Twingyare you using gcam for anything?
18:31.55louipcnot yet I need to make a pkg first hehe
18:32.05Twingydebian package?
18:32.10louipcarchlinux package
18:32.15Twingyah
18:32.30Twingyum, hold off on the patch for right now until my mind is in gcam land
18:32.39louipcthat's the distro I'm using, but yeah I think I might use it eventually
18:32.41Twingyright now it is in electronics land
18:33.07louipcespecially as it matures, since I do work on CNC as my regular occupation :/
18:41.23*** join/#brlcad German_Killa (n=German_K@217.83.150.188)
18:41.34*** part/#brlcad German_Killa (n=German_K@217.83.150.188)
19:08.30*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874EFB.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:03.29``Erikhere we go... dumbest thing I've seen today... http://heelys.com/
20:04.28louipcooh money for skating with special shoes
20:07.05louipcoh I saw that guy walk up the ramp cheating...
21:42.08``Eriknot the money part... the existance of those shoes...
21:42.55``Erikwhatever happened to going to the roller-rink and slapping on some good old rollerscates? O.o
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070813

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070813

01:52.50*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
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16:31.54``Erikhrmph.
18:54.54*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-110-217.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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19:33.38*** join/#brlcad tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@86.56.118.39)
19:44.28tomboy64hi
19:44.45tomboy64does any1 know if brlcad is 64-bit safe?
19:53.55*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron)
19:54.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: Has anything just happend to the server, I couldn't access my screen session for some reason after I got force disconnected.
19:56.25MinuteElectronAnd, what's more 'killall -u MinuteElectron' wouldn't work.
20:11.15``Erikit looks ok to me O.o what was the screen error?
20:12.07``Erikload was up... looks like almost all your procs were started less than 15ish minutes ago
20:12.22``Erikgot a login from 8 something this morning
20:15.59MinuteElectron``Erik: I killed everything.
20:16.02MinuteElectronOf mine.
20:16.52``Erikps axu | grep <username> shows a sshd/bash pair from this morning *shrug* :)
20:16.55MinuteElectronThis is tedious now, everything is soo slow.
20:17.07MinuteElectron``Erik: Some stuff wouldn't die.
20:17.11``Erikload is up on the machine
20:17.15pooliohmm. I really need to get working on putting together a presentation :\
20:17.33``Erikmysql is grinding, httpd's giving a bit, as is someones irssi
20:18.19``ErikI had a box with wiki that'd more or less become unusable every time google wandered over it, and google was way less abusive than microsoft's search
20:23.20MinuteElectron``Erik: yes, it would appear if something is hitting a website or series of websites that rely on mySQL hard.
20:25.29``Erikah
20:25.31``Erikmsnbot
20:25.49MinuteElectronMicro$shit.
20:25.55``Erikand 'voilabot'
20:25.58MinuteElectronAnyway, I can't stand this. BBL
20:45.56*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
21:07.21*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron_ (n=User@silentflame/member/minuteelectron)
21:07.53MinuteElectron_``Erik: Can you connect at all.
21:08.06MinuteElectronIt appears I can.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070814

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070814

07:00.56*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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16:31.00*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@host131.objectsciences.com)
16:57.41pooliohmm. awfully quiet.
17:03.26dtidrowmust be recovering from SIGGRAPH
17:04.12poolioah yes.
17:20.00archivistwe actually got reports from SIGGRAPH on breakfast TV  in the uk
18:13.13CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_hardtrack.1: Stub out missing options for PR 1773831. Someone with scary guru powers in anim should expand on it.
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18:39.24``Erik*yawn*
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070815

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070815

01:10.46``Erikmmmm cathy shim
01:45.11louipc``Erik: on her resumé "special skills: heely skating"
02:40.55``Erikok, that's retarded, but what a bod O.o
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13:03.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik improved the anim_hardtrack manual page documentation
13:09.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
13:09.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: john tracked down a quirky lil pipe bug where there can/should actually be 4 or
13:09.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: 5 segments along a given ray when shooting through a pipe if/when the inner
13:09.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: diameter of a bend is different from an adjoining straight section (causing a
13:09.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: stair-step change in the pipe thickness).
13:15.09``Erik"sick", huh? why do I suspect late night carousing is the cause? :D
13:37.01*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
13:39.13``Eriknot coming in, poolio?
13:39.59brlcadi actually got sick before siggraph from too many back-to-back all-nighters, got better and it just lingered all through the week -- but then reared it's head when I got home again
13:40.18brlcadso i've been resting for the past three days .. today is the first day i've been on-line
13:40.23``Eriksweet, being near apg makes you physically sick :D *duck*
13:40.58poolio``Erik: Nope :(
13:41.01poolioWell, I will.
13:41.04poolioI just am not sure when
13:41.15pooliohah. see brlcad, you do need sleep.
13:41.38brlcadI do, I've been up all night .. and I've got a headache again :)
13:42.33brlcadmmm.. http://www.vroomfoods.com/foosh_mints.html
13:42.42poolioAre you pondering that at work? haha
13:43.13``Erikof course, worsethanfailure is an important investment to further extend my, uh, professional ability as a software developer?
13:43.37pooliobrlcad: woah
13:44.03``Erikbrlcad, would you have heartburn if I removed dm_old? O.o
13:44.09brlcadnope
13:44.17brlcadwas going to myself
13:44.27brlcadjust didn't want to screw with distcheck
13:44.57brlcadit should be ready to tag n ship
13:46.00``Erikok, tag it so I can hit 'enter' and expunge this vestigial crap
13:49.12poolioalso, does one of you want to find a good place for freeing re_directory_blocks please :)
13:57.49``Erikrt_free_rti seems to do it, as does rt_clean_resource
14:03.58poolioAFAIK it's commented out in both those places.
14:04.42``Erikhuh, whuddya know
14:04.57``Eriksmells like a leak to me :)
14:05.50``Erikhrm
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16:27.57``Erikthat was AWESOME
16:57.35CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (14 files in 3 dirs): removed vestigial crud
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18:13.56``Erik/t http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2ac7ee81
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18:54.01ertugeratasalut
19:01.01ertugeratapoolio: tu peut m'aider ?
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21:21.04yukonbob``Erik: ?did sneaker pimps do anything besides "Becoming X" (and the remix "Becoming remiXed")?
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23:27.21``Erikyeah, but the chick singer left not long after that album, and the dudes singing just don't sit right with me :/
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070816

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070816

03:19.43*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130)
04:29.53*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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06:12.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: remove the old enable arg for proe since the with arg is used instead
06:17.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: version numbers are no longer in configure.ac, they're in the version files in include/conf now
06:37.30CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: sweet blessed jeebus. don't have to update config_win.h any more since it seems to be pulling it from the builds system now. I think daniel must be to thank for that goodness
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07:44.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: (log message trimmed)
07:44.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: aha, finally realized what is going awry... since the samples were previously
07:44.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: already allocated to the hard-coded max, the sample generator just used the
07:44.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: slots as needed, keeping track of them with lt_pt_count as new ones were needed.
07:44.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: what that means, though, is that we need to ensure an allocation before ALL of
07:44.57CIA-27BRL-CAD: the places that lt_pt_count is incremented since that is when we need/make a new
07:44.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: point. this (finally) fixes the crashes I was seeing when multiple shadow rays
07:45.14ewilhelmbrlcad: botsnack :-D
07:45.24brlcad:-)
07:51.28CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: support infinite # of shadow rays in the raytracers
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13:12.03``Erikcoming in today, brlcad?
13:13.10``Erik(and a thousand shadow rays? non-point light source? a thousand light sources? O.o)
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15:14.33``Erikhum, no brlcad and no poolio
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15:26.15``Erikpewlioz
15:26.35``Erikya in the aberdeen area?
15:32.10pooliomornin'
15:32.28poolioerrr, I'm in baltimore county. really close to the north west corner of baltimore city, about 1 hr away
15:46.32poolio``Erik: I'd take it you're in the aberdeen area :)
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17:10.36``Erikpoolio: yes, was seeing if you'd be interested on coming up for lunch with some of "the gang", but it's too late now :D
17:10.39``Erik<-- pats his buddha belly
17:11.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/sh_light.c: the number of light sample points needs to be considerably bigger than the number of shadow rays otherwise we end up with sample patterns in the shadow.
17:12.40poolio``Erik: No time :( I'm off to do shopping.
17:12.49poolioHowever, I just got my new LCD, had to test it out
17:13.01poolioIt's tiny compared to what you guys have
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17:55.47CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: bezier extrusions need to be optimized, really should not be performing dynamic memory allocations in the root solver
17:56.02dtidroweek
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18:27.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/.cvsignore: ignore the generated tclstub export file
18:41.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/points_scan.l: note that we could have used YY_NO_UNPUT instead of the hack
19:25.17brlcadpretty awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdk5m5IT8NY
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19:39.16ertugeratasalut
19:39.57brlcadsalut
19:40.14ertugeratail ya une problem dans mon system, je compile brlcad in cvs, configure ne trouve pas TCL and TK
19:40.30ertugerataquand meme ils sont exist
19:53.51``Erikvous avez tcl.h et tk.h? (excuse, http://babelfish.altavista.com/rt)
19:54.50ertugerata``Erik: /usr/include
19:54.53``Erik(brlcad, feeling less ill?)
19:55.15``Erikles deux version 8.5 ?
19:55.19ertugerata``Erik: yes
19:55.50brlcadyeah, much better but now the week is up and I'm in release mode
19:56.20``Erik./configure 2>&1 | tee configure.out ; less configure.out   ...
19:56.22``Erikchecking for Tcl_Main in -ltcl85... yes
19:56.32``Erikchecking tcl.h usability... yes
19:56.32``Erikchecking tcl.h presence... yes
19:56.32``Erikchecking for tcl.h... yes
19:59.05``Erikbrlcad: I saw some corniness in distcheck when I was verifying removal of dm_old, but they weren't related to dm_old so I commited... things like, uh, includes/CONF or something
19:59.30CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (ChangeLog NEWS TODO include/conf/PATCH): performing the 7.10.2 release, bump the revisions and tag it as rel-7-10-2
19:59.53``Erikalso got things squared up so the only 'other' package I used on fbsd was tkImg :) (and it WORKED!)
19:59.57brlcadthe version numbers are in include/conf now, in individual files
20:00.11brlcadwow, seriously
20:00.14brlcadthat's awesome
20:00.28brlcadI would have expected some incrtcl woes still
20:00.30``ErikI had to hack some stuff in ports to make incr and blt use 85, but *shrug*
20:00.50brlcadyou have anything that needs to be committed before I tag it?
20:00.53``Erikhehehe that's what my configure.ac commits addressed... getting incr to detect
20:00.57``Eriklemme look
20:01.32brlcadi know of a few minor build issues, but .. they're minor and shouldn't hold things up
20:03.14``ErikI have an untested one in sig, I started going through and changing the big strcmp ifelse stuff to getopt... but that can wait for the next one *shrug*
20:03.18CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: list light model option in -h
20:03.39``Erikotherwise, I have nothing release-worthy to commit.
20:03.42brlcadaiight
20:03.51``Erikneed to fix the photon mapping stuff, still, but that *shrug* can wait
20:04.51brlcadyeah, there's even some important fixes I need to put in for the s2 folks, but it'll have to wait
20:04.58``Erikertugerata: configure accompli? tcl rapports "yes"?
20:05.22brlcadthis is effectively the july release a day late
20:05.42``Erikis the beaurocracy still preventing a regular monthly cycle?
20:05.42brlcadshooting 256 shadow rays sure is expensive :)
20:05.51ertugerata``Erik: j'esaie une fois de plus
20:06.08brlcadtime constraints is all that's really preventing regular releases
20:07.05brlcadand involvement, reliable testing/build framework
20:07.13``Erikheh, mostly the platform build test? a "big honking button" is needed for that
20:07.20brlcadyep
20:07.56brlcadI'd even auto-post the tarballs if the platform tests were more automated
20:08.27``Erikit's too bad sf's compile farm went away. :(
20:08.34brlcadjust a matter of some minor scripting and a low-maintenance interface, but it usually falls under the bar to other development
20:08.47``Erik*nod*
20:09.10``Erikbut I'd imagine if you looked at the time to write it vs the time to do it by hand, it'd quickly pay for itself
20:09.41brlcadthe stuff the s2 folks are doing is a start, but that setup is definitely not hands-off and it's rather error prone/sensitive to anything changing that it's a burden in itself
20:10.58brlcadit's definitely worth it to build the dists automatically, that's why I started all the build system hooks for each of the platforms
20:11.16brlcadall the various sh/make_*.sh scripts to build distributions
20:12.11brlcadwhat seems to really bite us the most lately is stuff missing from the dists -- there really needs to be a 'distcheckfiles' or something that makes sure everything in a checkout is in the source dist
20:12.53``ErikI noticed that the 'real' checkout had to be configured with --enable-almost-everything or something to get distcheck to behave sorta
20:12.57brlcadcould probably do it with some recursive rule added to misc/Makefile.defs, have it scan all the various file lists
20:13.32brlcad(fyi, --enable-all is the shorthand for that)
20:14.02``Erikmeh, highlight and middle click is the shortcut I use for that
20:14.03``Erik:)
20:19.44CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS TODO README include/conf/PATCH): post commit, bump the version numbers and plan for the next release (expecting another patch release)
20:22.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS AUTHORS): time to announce and credit beset, Ben's Evolutionary Shape Extraction Tool by Ben Poole
20:29.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: lay out the next two release iterations (both probably still patch releases)
20:37.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): remove the op-bw utility, an obsolete tool written to read images from an Optronics scanner into a bw. tool can be removed when they are no longer in use and impose a burden to maintain. (sorry Phil)
20:37.51``Erikit'll live on in the repo
20:41.28``Erikheh
20:42.19brlcadwell it's still needed for the brep work
20:42.27brlcadit's a matter of where/how
20:43.18brlcadthe opennurbs folks pulled out all of the routines that actually did analytic processing, anything that didn't have to do with their file format
20:43.32brlcadwhich of coruse means they ripped out everything we need to implement
20:44.09brlcadso as jason was implementing it, he kept it separate and it still is, but the more that work proceeds (and it presumably is going to) the more it probably deserves to be an opennurbs enhancement directly
20:44.45``Erik10km swims... sheesh
20:45.59*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876182.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:47.23CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: put off opennurbs integration for now, still questionable whether it really needs to be integrated aside from being stagnated at the moment
21:13.55``Erik"monosfritos"
21:40.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/nirt/parse_fmt.c):
21:40.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: increased output precision from nirt/query_ray to 8 digits after the decimal.
21:40.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: was previously 2 to 4 digits depending on the field, which was particularly
21:40.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: detrimental for reproducing shots using the limited az el values or for seeing
21:40.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: what floating point fuzz is relevant on the origin and shot direction.
22:10.28brlcadaww, seems like sf only allows one upload at a time now
22:13.15pooliobrlcad: Howdy :) Thanks for crediting me, but I hope beset isn't in the release...
22:13.40brlcadnote the section
22:14.02poolioI really can't, my pupils are dilated and it's really hard to read anything on my computer, sorry.
22:14.14poolioI have to squint :)
22:14.36brlcad./topic BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Release 7.10.2 is posted! (Aug 16th) || for Ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
22:14.43brlcad7.10.2 is being posted now
22:14.53brlcadthat's in the release notes for 7.10.4 :)
22:15.01poolioHeh! Sweetness. Congratulations!
22:15.06brlcador 7.12.0, depending on how must goes in
22:16.24brlcadyeah, that's been too long coming
22:16.33brlcadmissed three scheduled release months
22:57.23``Erikhum, guess I get to make a port then :)
22:57.35``Erikand NOW I can break the tree horribly with my half-assed hacks :D
22:58.40``Erik(I'd really like to see a libtk test in configure.ac that does NOT require a valid X server running and appropriate display set.. I'd imagine i'd be necessary for automated build/testing as well... *cough*)
22:58.54``Erikbut now it's world of warcraft time.
23:19.25*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096668109.dsl.bell.ca)
23:56.18brlcadwoot, http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/shadows_by_example.mov
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070817

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070817

00:04.38pooliobrlcad: No music? Lame.
00:04.54dtidrowheh
00:50.28yukonbobbrlcad: cool
00:57.07brlcadunfortunately it's entirely unoptimized to shoot high numbers of shadow rays, but it at least will let you now
00:58.01brlcadI should render something like m35 or havoc with that many shadow rays to see the difference
01:03.09poolioeek. how long would that take?
01:03.55brlcaddunno, depends how many shadow rays, how big a picture, etc
01:07.20yukonbobbrlcad: how was siggraph, btw?
01:08.16brlcadit was great, loads of great papers
01:08.30brlcadone in particular for generating cutaway diagrams that I liked
01:08.35yukonboblots of new ideas for optimizations and new features?
01:09.48brlcadheh, yeah.. loads
01:10.23brlcadmost of the stuff that we can directly use and benefit from outright we've known about for years -- just a matter of folks and doing the work
01:10.54brlcadmost of our biggest "win" ideas aren't even that technical though
01:11.09brlcadlike a better (i.e. easier to learn/use) modeling interface
01:11.40brlcadreal-time shaded displays, consistent graphical interface
01:12.41yukonbobindeed.
01:12.46yukonbobhey, q: re usage
01:13.39yukonbobwhen you say "shoot a ray" -- what does that mean -- it detects where it collides with "something" in the model?
01:13.49brlcadyes
01:14.12yukonbob?is "shot" like a vector start x,y,z, deltas x,y,z
01:14.49brlcadhm? deltas?
01:15.05brlcada ray basically is a vector with a position and a direction
01:15.32brlcadshooting it basically asks/answers the question of what lies along that vector
01:15.33yukonbobright --- the directions are what I mean w/ deltas (change)
01:15.54yukonbobcan things be traced with reflection/refraction as well?
01:15.58brlcadso you can talk about the first hit, segments, what objects are on a given shotline
01:16.56brlcadyes, that's what the ray-tracer does
01:17.16brlcadwhen it hits a surface with a given ray, it looks at the properties of what it hit
01:17.25yukonbobso you've got all the typical ray-tracer facilities available in your single ray that you can query.
01:18.20brlcadif the ray being first is for rendering an image, for example, and it hit something reflective, it'll then shoot a reflected ray to compute the light contribution from the reflected source
01:20.27brlcada couple of the distinctions of BRL-CAD's ray-tracers and the librt ray-tracing library is that it'll 1) handle *everything* along a given shot line (not just the first hit) and 2) it handles implicit geometry along with CSG (instead of just explicit models (e.g. polygonal meshes))
01:22.28brlcadthere are other particular details, like brl-cad's multispecral library for dealing with non-visible light spectrums, but that's a differenent subject altogether
01:22.43brlcadrays themselves are pretty simple, as is shooting a ray
01:23.09yukonbobso much to learn ;)
01:23.10brlcadit's rather mathematical/simple in that it just answers the question, what does this ray encounter
01:23.25brlcadwhat happens when it does encounter something is entirely up to the given application
01:24.02yukonbobbrlcad: could the ray say: once I encounter this, how much material would I go through if I kept on going, not stopped, reflected or refracted?
01:24.12brlcadfor 'rt', it's trying to make a picture, so it works with our optics library and deals with reflections, diffusion, refraction, etc and simulates light transport (i.e. traditional image rendering ray-tracing)
01:24.53brlcadfor analysis codes, the rays might be infrared energy (which has entirely different behaviors), or might even be something like a bullet or a fragment being simulated
01:25.46brlcadyes, the ray can say that -- and almost that exact question is what is performed in the MUVES-S2 analysis simulation that directly ties to BRL-CAD for V/L analyses
01:27.04yukonbobv/l?
01:27.11brlcadvulnerability/lethality
01:27.18yukonbobah.
01:28.23yukonbobso awesome... thanks mike muuss, and sean (and everybody)... amazing piece of work.
01:29.02brlcadmore simply, though, that's even the same question that's effectively answered if you wanted to simulate an xray machine .. how far the xrays can penetration depend on the types of materials, how thick they are, etc
01:29.29brlcads/penetration/penetrate/
01:30.00yukonbobapps like that would be custom-linked into libs though, right?
01:30.12yukonbob*custom-built and linked
01:30.13brlcadwhat do you mean?
01:31.13yukonbobwith a bog-standard distro, can I come up w/ an xray model for a material w/o writing more software? Obviously I'll need to do my materials analysis, and waveform anaylsis, but otherwise, how tough?
01:31.19brlcadyou'd have to write the driving application that encodes the physics of whatever you're trying to simulate (an xray simulation isn't the same as a radar simulation nor the same as simulating a v/l analysis, etc)
01:32.26brlcadwell, in this case, brl-cad does already have an x-ray simulating renderer
01:32.37brlcadrtxray
01:32.49brlcadas well as thermal and a handful of others
01:33.13yukonbobso, based on the rtxray code, I could write an rt-alien-laser app, if I knew how alian lasers worked
01:33.17yukonbob*alien
01:33.27brlcadthey become much easier to write once you have a simple/good ray-tracing interface that you can write to (which is the point of librt)
01:33.34brlcadyes
01:33.45yukonbobgood to know when "they" come....
01:34.16brlcadit's actually not too complicated at all if you know C
01:34.31yukonbobWE'RE READY FOR YOU... no wait a bit... we're compiling... OK.. NOW WE'RE READY FOR YOU!!
01:34.54brlcadthere's some basic info at http://brlcad.org/example_app.php for example, the second link just opens a .g geometry file and shoots a ray at the model
01:36.23poolioCheckout beset for similar examples :)
01:36.42pooliog_qa.c in src/gtools/ is also good
01:37.05brlcadbeset does considerably more :)
01:37.29yukonbobbeset == the GA that's being worked on here, right?
01:37.42poolioyeah. but it initally fires rays at a model and stores them.
01:37.55yukonbob?so can the rays physically affect the models
01:37.59poolioProbably not the best thing to look at, I just like selling crappy code.
01:38.03poolioNo.
01:38.10poolioWell, you could code them so that they would
01:38.42poolioBut shooting a ray at an object will not modify the database object
01:45.20brlcadyou could easily write an application that fired rays and modeified the geometry as part of the process (so you could have a FPS shooter game, for example, where you shoot at things and it actually leaves holes or blows things up or chips away at them, etc)
01:48.22yukonbobdidn't even realize that those words were coming from you at first ;)
01:55.52pooliohi yukonbob. I'd ignore my words and go for brlcad. he knows ... a tad bit more :)
01:56.56poolioThere was some real-time raytracing FPS thingy sometime recently
01:57.02yukonbobw/ brlcad?
01:57.38yukonbobbtw, I wasn't ignoring your words -- just wasn't looking at < poolio> versus <@brlcad> :)
01:59.14brlcadray-tracing's being used in several games now, and will probably dominate before too long
01:59.49brlcadeven the video card makers have started to provide the hooks so that you can perform ray-tracing on the GPU now easily enough for most rendering purposes
02:00.42yukonbobare you talking about GL?
02:11.35brlcadnope
02:11.36CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: nirt/query_ray reports intersection messages in triplicate if the shot routines miss but still print out messages
02:11.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: comments and curlies
02:11.59brlcadtalking about video cards actually doing ray-tracing to generate the display image
03:12.16*** join/#brlcad npcdoom (n=npcdoom@gugve/developer/npcdoom)
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07:23.26brlcadah yeah, there he is just earlier today
07:23.36brlcad~ww
07:23.37ibotWrong Window.
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09:06.24yukonbob~wtf
09:06.31yukonbob~botsnack
09:06.31ibotthanks, yukonbob
09:06.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/librt/g_rec.c):
09:06.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: fixed a bug encountered when ray-tracing really tiny TGC objects (sub-millimeter
09:06.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: size) caused by the REC prep routine thinking it was a valid right elliptical
09:06.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: cone (when it wasn't). the problem was due to a bad magnitude check and an
09:06.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: insufficient hard-coded 'smallness' constant. the result was rays that would
09:06.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: miss portions of the tgc entirely, only counting the 'middle' portion that would
09:06.42CIA-27BRL-CAD: have corresponded with an REC.
09:07.20yukonbob~wtf ath
09:07.29yukonbob~wtf ls
09:07.59brlcad~ath
09:08.11yukonbobhey brlcad
09:08.14brlcadhowdy yukonbob
09:08.37yukonbobI made a bot that interfaced to wtf as well, but notice that they interface to their own db, as well as manpages, etc.
09:08.43yukonbob~wtf dd
09:09.10yukonbob~wtf SMP
09:09.23brlcadyeah, to an extent
09:09.35brlcad~smp
09:09.35ibotit has been said that smp is (Symmetric Multi Processing) This refers to a technology where a computer uses multiple processors to process different instructions at the same time, in separate processing units. It is a form of parallel computing..  A feature of an SMP system is that it uses shared memory between all the processors, rather than each processor having ...
09:09.54yukonbob~tuning
09:10.03yukonbob~wtf tuning
09:10.24brlcadthere's a different command to ask it more general terms..
09:10.25yukonbob~wtf security
09:10.38brlcadforget the name atm, though
09:10.54brlcadibot: literal wtf
09:10.55ibot"where" is "<reply> who?"
09:11.13yukonbob~wtf rmmod
09:11.24yukonbobnow I know it's running on a linux box...
09:11.39yukonbob~wtf deb
09:11.40brlcadyeah, tim's a debian nut
09:11.45yukonbob;)
09:13.18yukonbobI've got a bot interface silc->wtf, and noticed that it grabs info from the manpages as well... might be able to constrain w/ 'wtf -f <database>', but I'm not sure if it constrains or not...
09:13.46yukonbob~wtf bind
09:13.53yukonbob~wtf named
09:14.00yukonbob~wtf php
09:14.04yukonbob~wtf php5
09:14.11yukonbob~wtf php4
09:14.55brlcad~whatis named
09:15.10brlcad~apropos php
09:15.10ibotphp: nothing appropriate
09:15.56yukonbob~apropos http
09:15.57ibothttp: nothing appropriate
09:16.04yukonbob~apropos perl
09:16.05ibotperl: nothing appropriate
09:16.10brlcad~apropos list
09:16.10ibotlist: nothing appropriate
09:16.13yukonbob~apropos python
09:16.14ibotpython: nothing appropriate
09:16.15brlcad*shrug*
09:16.19yukonbob;)
09:18.34brlcad(speaking of perl, blootbot is written in perl)
09:18.47yukonbobis ibot a blootbot?
09:18.58brlcad~ibot
09:18.59ibotmethinks ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported.
09:19.21yukonbob~wtf tcl
09:19.24yukonbob~wtf tclsh
09:19.33yukonbob~apropos tcl
09:19.34ibottcl: nothing appropriate
09:19.38brlcadi don't think wtf does what you think it does :)
09:19.39yukonbob~apropos sqlite
09:19.40ibotsqlite: nothing appropriate
09:19.56yukonbob~wtf iptables
09:20.03brlcadother than that
09:20.12brlcad:)
09:20.19brlcadfactinfo wtf
09:20.22brlcad~factinfo wtf
09:20.22ibotthere's no such factoid as wtf, brlcad
09:20.45brlcad~kernel
09:20.53yukonbob!
09:20.56yukonbob~rootpass
09:20.59brlcadheh
09:21.24brlcadthat's just saying which are available/current
09:21.59brlcad~nickometer yukonbob
09:22.11brlcad~nullski
09:22.17yukonbobI guess thats good...
09:22.23brlcad:)
09:22.32brlcadit does more interesting things on folks with lame nicks ;)
09:22.56brlcaddoesn't take to kindly to use of punctuation and certain styles of case
09:23.02yukonbob~nickmeter brlcad
09:23.03ibotbrlcad is 100% lame with a cherry on top!
09:23.18yukonbobheh -- that's gotta be hardcoded
09:23.23brlcadheh
09:23.26yukonbob~nickmeter poolio
09:23.26ibotpoolio is 100% lame with a cherry on top!
09:23.33yukonbob~nickmeter joe
09:23.33ibotjoe is 100% lame with a cherry on top!
09:23.44yukonbob~nickmeter l33td00d
09:23.45ibotl33td00d is 100% lame with a cherry on top!
09:23.47brlcad~literal nickmeter
09:24.04brlcad~nickometer l33td00d
09:24.16brlcadnickOmeter ;)
09:24.30brlcad~factinfo nickmeter
09:24.30ibotthere's no such factoid as nickmeter, brlcad
09:24.38yukonbob~nickometer brlcad
09:24.44yukonbobbetter
09:24.51yukonbob~nickometer poolio
09:24.59yukonbob~nickometer joe
09:25.14brlcadhe does have me hard coded for a few things
09:25.33brlcadprobably because we don't see eye to eye on lots of issues, but probably half joke too
09:25.48brlcadooh
09:25.55brlcad~piglatin hello, how are you
09:26.19brlcad~slashdot
09:26.39brlcad~uptime
09:26.51yukonbob^-- that's what I need to get my silcbot to do --
09:26.56yukonbob(slashdot)
09:27.06brlcad~zippy hello
09:27.21brlcad~zippy
09:27.32brlcad~zsi
09:27.58brlcad~insult yukonbob
09:28.14yukonbob!nice
09:28.35brlcad~lart yukonbob
09:28.35ibottakes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in yukonbob's direction, hitting yukonbob and sending yukonbob flying into the closet
09:28.36yukonbobbottricks ;)
09:28.48brlcad~botsnack
09:28.48ibot:), brlcad
09:30.26yukonbob~lart laniakea
09:30.27ibotslaps laniakea upside the head with a wet fish
09:31.03brlcadsome of the best features are bzflag-specific as well as just ibot's pretty extensive factoid database
09:31.13brlcadprobably one of the biggest if not the biggest around
09:31.35brlcadas it's been up and running in dozens of highly popular channels for nearly a decade now
09:31.42yukonbob?bzflag, as in my favourite tank game
09:31.49yukonbob~bzflag
09:31.50ibotfrom memory, bzflag is a 3D internet multiplayer multiplatform (win32, linux, mac, etc) opensource opengl Battlezone capture the flag game of the same name that you must try at http://BZFlag.org/ or a continual development project with periodic gaming interuptions. See also TimRiker
09:32.00brlcad~bzflist
09:32.24brlcadwow, that's low, but I suppose it is late
09:32.31brlcadthat's a live query
09:32.38brlcadthere are 81 people playing right now
09:32.56brlcadusually it's around 200 24/7
09:33.50brlcadbzflag is where I spend the rest of my time on-line, leading up development efforts there
09:34.39brlcad~x en es it is almost time to sleep
09:35.27yukonbobwell  -- I used to spend more time w/ BZFlag, but not in a while... NetBSD is just getting DRM/DRI that will hopefully "stick" this time...
09:36.42yukonbob?is tim involved with ARL, or just BRLCAD, or  neither (or both)?
09:36.57brlcadnone
09:37.08brlcadtim's not even really involved with bzflag any more
09:37.22brlcadhe's not been involved in development for several years now
09:38.22brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/189/analyses/latest/contributors
09:38.56yukonbobyou're winning ;)
09:38.58brlcada little misleading as our ohloh stats have been offline for the past five/six months
09:39.22brlcadhe's still flat-lined though (just others have had plenty, mine picked up substantially for example)
09:39.36brlcadah, I had him passed up a couple years ago
09:40.42brlcadreminds me that I need to figure out why our svn repo won't process
09:50.21yukonbob:)
09:50.33yukonbobanwyay -- I think I'm off to bed...
09:50.40brlcadyeah, me too
09:50.40yukonbobtalk later brlcad :)
09:50.44brlcadcya bob
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14:06.09ertugeratasalut
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14:46.36ertugeratasalut poolio
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17:21.44CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/shoot.c: make sure there is a hit routine to call, otherwise it's a miss
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19:54.38``Erikbrlcad, do you exist?
20:00.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/poly.c:
20:00.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: rework the quadratic root solver to handle some additional exceptional cases
20:00.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: where either the coefficients or the discriminate are zero. ideally we could
20:00.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: presume we're solving equations that don't have floating point fuzz, and could
20:00.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: check for for ieee zero equivalence but alas we cannot without causing
20:00.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: additional instability.
20:00.54brlcad``Erik: sometimes
20:06.25``Erikgonna be in on monday?
20:07.39``ErikI surspect ed is walking to his office to call you to see if you'll be in on monday morning, heh
20:09.08brlcadyes, I wil
20:09.56``Erikok, I'll let him know so he doesn't call ya :)
20:13.09``Erikhe sent you an email saying why and when
20:18.02brlcadi'd just e-mailed him as well
20:56.16PrezKennedyi hate printers
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22:26.10dtidrowevening all
22:26.46dtidrowwhat's a good starter book for Tcl/Tk?
22:38.33yukonbobdtidrow: Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk is good.
22:39.09yukonbobas is the wiki... wiki.tcl.tk
22:39.13yukonboband #tcl on freenode
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070818

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070818

00:24.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/libbu/parallel.c src/rt/main.c src/rt/opt.c):
00:24.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: allow the ray-tracers to use more than the available cpus for debugging and
00:24.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: testing purposes. this was previously only possible via compile-time
00:24.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: modifications, but now is possible via the BU_DEBUG_PARALLEL debug flag (-\!10
00:24.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: on most of the raytracers).
00:51.04``Erik(extra points for prime #'s... even is bad)
00:52.24Twingygot my first bugzilla posting for a user using gEDA + GCAM
00:52.35``Erikcool
00:52.38``Erikeasy fix? :D
00:52.42Twingyyea
00:53.30Twingywhen I finished the initial release of the RS274X -> G-Code algorithm I decided I will just let the users find the bugs and I will fix them if any cropped up rather than spend a zillion hours coming up with test cases
00:53.55``Erikheh, the microsoft approach
00:54.06Twingythe users can go in and fix it themselves though
00:54.08``Erikdidja at least throw a disclaimer up to warn the poor fools? :)
00:54.11TwingyLGPL
00:54.15``Erik*nod*
00:54.24Twingywell they will see if there is a problem, i.e. broken traces
00:54.44Twingyyou can visually see the problem if the algorithm breaks down
00:55.04Twingy~1k lines of code for the algorithm
00:55.15``Erikon the screen, right? don't have to burn copperclad or anything to 'test'? :)
00:55.16Twingynot much in the way of optimizations either
00:55.40Twingyyes, they can also do a render to execute the g-codes on a virtual piece of material
00:56.18Twingythis is far from omfg
00:56.30``Erikwell, simple removal for path, right?
00:56.47Twingyit needs to a tesselator option to go along with the voxel version I have now
00:56.53``Eriknot taking things like cutting stresses and strains and removed materials paths into consideration?
00:56.59``Erikheat warping, etc...
00:57.03Twingyno physics yet...
00:57.14``Erik<-- bets it's still a hell of a lot more than 99.999% of other things out there
00:57.37Twingybut some of the support for it is in place such as material type, machine configuration, end mill type
00:58.08TwingyI need to figure out how to make a debian package so that I can get it included in the EMC distribution
00:58.33Twingyonce I add isolationing to the interface I can easily get it added to the gEDA suite
00:58.34``Erikheh, make a debian subdir and build a 'rules' file, then use the tools to generate all the other crap
00:58.54TwingyI have a page book marked that tells me how to do it, just haven't had time to do it yet
00:58.58``Erik<-- dorked with it many years ago, was never 100% successful... rpm sucks balls, but was way easier to package :/
00:59.19TwingyI have about 25 outstanding features and bugs
00:59.49TwingyI do about 2 a month
00:59.58``Erikno contributed patches yet?
01:00.05Twingyactually I have a couple
01:00.12Twingythe beginning of STL support
01:00.28``Erikcool
01:00.48Twingybut people fail to realize that adding DXF/STL parses is far less complicated than writing the contour pocketing algorithm that makes milling triangle meshes possible
01:01.20Twingyso I get alot of emails about people telling me that they can write a DXF/STL parser for me and contribute it to the project...
01:01.28``Erikheh
01:02.02``Erikso ya know where the voxels are.. how the hell do ya cut it? :D
01:02.07Twingyso I basically need to get around to writing that to stop people from emailing me about that
01:02.55Twingythen I can use something like blender to do some obscure geometries (haven't come across any projects that I can't model in gcam yet)
01:03.01TwingyI think the mesh support is mainly for artists
01:03.44Twingythe only thing the comes to mind where meshes could be useful is in designing a airplane propeller
01:03.58``Erik<-- is in 'wasting time on small task' mode, might do some importer/exporter stuff in brlcad... kinda thinking game related stuff first (md2, 3ds, quake mapper crap, bz worlds...)
01:04.18Twingyyou've been talking about games for like 6 years now...
01:04.25``Erikmebbe I'll take a peek at gcam for those :D
01:04.34``Erikwell, yeah, and I wrote a few... mostly functional...
01:04.58``Erikthe sticker for me seems to be fast/simple/robust collision detection
01:05.07``Erik:/
01:06.12Twingyit will be neat to see what kind of computing architectures are available once I get bored of this aerospace stuff
01:06.50``Erikwell, ok, my tendancy to go heavy on scripting and grabbing 'compact' solutions of high level scripting languages also has been an issue for me...
01:07.09``Eriksiod sucks goat balls for game scripting as it uses stop&copy gc, resulting in regular hitching :/
01:07.54Twingyover my head
01:08.59Twingyif some one writes a graphical interface between gschem and pcb I believe the death of EAGLE will occur within 5 years
01:16.15TwingyI thought it was pretty ignorant of wendy to ask me if I knew any programmers she could hire
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01:50.57``Erikheh
01:51.02``Erikhahaha
01:51.25``Erikdid you say something along the lines of "I would never subject any of my friends or even my enemies to you."? :D
02:02.54Twingynah, I replied "ok"
03:06.52CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_disk.c: get rid of a memory chunk not being released until exit that doesn't need to be mallocated in the first place since it's a fixed size
03:08.21yukonbob~lart brlcad
03:08.21ibotpulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps brlcad
03:08.27yukonbobheh
03:08.34yukonbob;)
03:15.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (29 files): remove the fblocal.h header file. it was only used in three places (two files) and only contained one macro (wrapper to fb_log an error), so keep it simple until it's really needed.
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05:57.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/main.c: oops, remove the sigill signal handler vestige I was using for debugging.
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08:42.05CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (light.h shadework.h): quell warning, ifdef instead of if rt_multispectral
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09:11.51CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/brlcad_version.h: quell unused warning
09:16.12CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tcl.h: quell HAVE_DECLSPEC warning
09:32.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/opt.c: meh
09:39.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (hurt.c Makefile.am):
09:39.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: add an experimental 'minimal' testing ray tracer based on rt that is just one
09:39.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: file. it's a humongous unified ray tracer (hurt) that shouldn't even be
09:39.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: compiled by default. presently weighs in at about 2k lines total (not including
09:39.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: lib code) with huge portions of rt functionality ripped out. again, this is
09:39.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: just for experimental use only so don't expect anything to come of this.
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15:01.09louipccool that weird crash I had disappeared
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18:13.20brlcadlouipc: using the latest release?
19:18.28louipcbrlcad: yep. I was suspecting it might have been gcc or glibc which I've updated since last time :/
19:18.41brlcadeither way, cool
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19:40.25louipcI made a new archlinux PKGBUILD. http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?do_Details=1&ID=8320
19:45.45brlcadhah, awesome
19:45.49brlcadyou beat all the other builds
19:47.04louipc:D
19:47.30brlcadcare to put/update your build files in cvs?
19:47.43louipcsure
19:48.18louipcthere have been some changes to the archlinux packaging system too since the last one
19:48.41brlcadall the better reason for you to update it than me :)
19:49.12brlcadthere, you should have access
19:49.29brlcadi'd put the previous build files along with some other details into the misc/archlinux dir
19:49.32louipcdo you want me to make a PKGBUILD.in like you have already?
19:49.39brlcadfeel free to change/update as needed
19:50.22louipcok
19:50.58brlcadyou don't have to, but I'm hoping to eventually get to the point where all of the platforms are auto-generated come release time
19:51.23brlcadeven with the .in, it still requires some hand-tweaking at the moment for the md5's
19:52.01louipcthat'd be cool
19:52.19brlcadwon't be able to get around that without an sh/make_pacmac.sh or something that can generate everything automatically
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20:16.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (102 files in 5 dirs): update from libpng 1.2.16 to 1.2.19, picking up a handful of fixes. nothing too critical as far as I can tell, but does reportedly include a minor security fix and major bug fixes (going from freshmeat categories)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070819

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070819

01:42.15*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@12.180.114.2)
02:22.07pooliobrlcad: I'm in Pittsburgh :)
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04:38.39brlcad:)
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07:31.30*** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@88.227.89.170)
07:31.35ertugeratasalut
07:58.08brlcadsalut!
07:59.24ertugeratabrlcad configure ne trouve pas TK library
07:59.50brlcadertugerata: can you pastebin the configure output?
08:00.08ertugerataone minute
08:00.11brlcadthx
08:02.02ertugeratahttp://contrib.pardus.org.tr/buildlogs/brlcad.log brlcad
08:02.38brlcadeep
08:02.41brlcad/usr/bin/libtoolize: line 93: echo: write error: Broken pipe
08:02.43brlcad?
08:03.20brlcadalso, 7.10.2. is posted :)
08:04.07ertugerata7.10.2 stable ?
08:05.58brlcador just cvs update
08:06.15ertugeratain my system TCLTK existe /usr/lib/tkConfig.sh and /usr/lib/tk8.5  
08:06.19brlcadyes, it should be stable, though it probably won't change your cofigure test results
08:06.27brlcadpaste your config.log please?
08:06.35ertugeratathanks
08:06.52brlcadi see it correctly found libtk8.5 and found the header
08:07.05brlcadit later failed a test of whether it works
08:07.14ertugeratayes
08:07.25brlcadthe config.log should have the reason why
08:07.30ertugerata9 of 9 a problem
08:07.40ertugerata8 of 9
08:07.43brlcad:)
08:08.14brlcadconfig.log please?
08:10.11brlcadI just need like the last 200 lines in the file if it makes a difference
08:10.35brlcadalso would be good to know exactly what your configure line is  ./configure ....something...
08:13.11ertugeratabrlcad :http://svn.pardus.org.tr/contrib/applications/science/brlcad/actions.py
08:16.06brlcadgood lord!
08:16.18brlcadyou can simplify that :)
08:16.56ertugeratawhy
08:17.29brlcadall of the enable/disables turn into:  --disable-almost-everything --enable-iwidgets-build=yes --disable-static --disable-debug --enable-optimized
08:17.50brlcadno harm doing them all, but the --disable-almost everything turns everything off
08:17.58ertugeratahmm
08:18.01brlcadall of the *-build options
08:18.16ertugerataopennurbs ?
08:18.47brlcadopennurbs isn't used yet
08:18.55brlcadit builds, but it's exposed by a tool
08:19.07ertugeratadisabled
08:19.08brlcad7.10.2 forces it off
08:19.52ertugeratarefresh actions.py
08:20.29brlcadno change
08:20.52brlcadalso.. you set --prefix=/usr/brlcad, yet install docs into /usr/share ?
08:20.56ertugerata-ltk8.5 and -ltcl8.5 ?
08:21.10ertugeratadocs in /usr/share ?
08:21.39brlcadah, interesting you manually added -ltk8.5 .. did it need that?
08:21.44ertugeratadb , simple_applications too
08:22.01ertugeratadont needed ?
08:22.30brlcadnot a problem, just why different?  /usr/share != /usr/brlcad
08:22.50brlcadanyways.. that's not the problem
08:22.52brlcadconfig.log?
08:23.18ertugeratawait je vais compiler
08:23.32brlcadconfig.log is generated after configure fails
08:25.01ertugeratain misc/enigma config.guess and config.sub needed ?
08:25.35brlcadduring sub-configure, but not after
08:25.58brlcadstep 9 of 9 :)
08:29.20brlcadtakes that long to get the config.log?
08:29.22brlcadslow machine?
08:29.43brlcadconfig.log is in top dir, same dir as configure
08:29.54brlcadunless you build outside dir
08:30.28ertugeratap4 2.66 512 RAM
08:30.36ertugeratalaptop
08:31.12brlcadconfigure should only take two or three minutes then..
08:31.25ertugerataautogen.sh ?
08:33.54ertugeratasame problem
08:34.09brlcadi'm sure.. that was not a fix
08:34.13brlcadI need the config.log :)
08:34.32brlcadnot a fix, just a simplification
08:34.52ertugeratatous ?
08:35.19brlcad~x fr en tous
08:35.40brlcadyes, all of config.log .. or last 500 lines
08:36.06brlcad~x en fr whatever is easier, I just need to see the error in the config.log file
08:37.10ertugeratahttp://rafb.net/p/AoW8L568.html
08:37.28ertugeratalast lines
08:37.46brlcadneed more
08:37.55ertugerataall
08:38.02brlcadsorry, I thought 500 would be enough
08:38.05brlcadyeah, all
08:38.09ertugeratatanks
08:38.13ertugeratathanks
08:39.48ertugeratahttp://svn.pardus.org.tr/pardus/playground/ertugrul/experimantal/config.log
08:40.00brlcadthx
08:41.35brlcadwow
08:41.59brlcadhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m528104f4
08:42.17brlcadit actually did fail
08:44.12ertugeratawhy ?
08:50.00ertugeratawhere conftest ?
08:50.03brlcadi'm looking
08:50.24brlcadi get the same error on a different box, testing
08:51.10brlcadahhhhh
08:51.17brlcadhrm
08:51.27brlcadfg
08:52.17brlcadcompile this:  http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tktest.c
08:52.34*** join/#brlcad Eren (n=eren@unaffiliated/erenturkay)
08:52.37Erenhi
08:53.11ertugeratagcc -ltk8.5 ?
08:53.51brlcadsomething like:  g++ tktest.c -I/usr/X11R6/include -L/usr/X11R6/lib -ltcl8.5 -ltk8.5 -lX11 -lXss
08:55.12brlcadI basically get a DISPLAY error
08:55.33brlcadwhich makes sense.. the machine I was testing was a remote server with no X11 display
08:55.46Erenbrb
08:55.50ertugeratain root console a display error
08:55.59brlcadthat's why configure is failing
08:57.33brlcadedit configure.ac -- change the return 1 to a return 0 after "Tk_Init returned error" line
08:57.33ertugeratain root console X dont work
08:57.45brlcadyeah, the check isn't good
08:58.37brlcadit's there because there are lots of systems where tk_init fails for other reasons.. that test tries to make sure the library works, not test X11
09:02.02Erenbrlcad: so, you say "hack it!"
09:02.03Eren:)
09:03.21brlcadunless you want to help me make a better test :)
09:03.38brlcadi'm trying to find a better function call to make for libtk instead of Tk_Init
09:11.54ertugeratabrlcad: fixed in CVS ?
09:13.40Erenbrlcad: we don't want to package it immediately, we can wait for your solution
09:22.17yukonbobbrlcad: are you not using tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh?
09:23.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
09:23.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: improve the libtk functionality test with the help of ertugerata (thx!) so that
09:23.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: it no longer uses Tk_Init() (which had the unfortunate side-effect of attempting
09:23.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: to talk to an X11 server and wanting DISPLAY to be set). instead, it now uses
09:23.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: Tk_GetScrollInfo which basically just parses a number out of a string.
09:23.37brlcadyukonbob: what for?
09:23.59brlcadertugerata | Eren: there that should fix it
09:24.03yukonbobyou're testing for installed Tk?
09:24.21brlcadyes, testing that it actually can call a symbol
09:25.05brlcadat this point, it's already tested that the lib links and that the headers link -- the third/last test is an actual functionality test where it runs a program that calls a symbol in that lib
09:25.25brlcadthis is done for pretty much all external dependencies as part of determining whether we need to compile them or not
09:25.26Erenbrlcad: okay, is CVS version stable?
09:25.32Erenbrlcad: could you please backport the patch :(
09:25.38ErenI'm autoconf newbie
09:25.46yukonbobbrlcad: extensive ;)
09:26.22yukonbob~lart brlcad
09:26.22ibottakes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking brlcad's head off
09:26.27yukonbob!
09:26.31yukonbobviolent
09:27.53brlcadEren: backport?  the tarball's already posted, I can't pull it .. but yes, cvs is pretty stable most of the time -- there is a STABLE branch, but it's not been synchronized with latest release just yet
09:28.11brlcadEren: I can provide a patch, would that help?
09:28.31brlcadyukonbob: necessary
09:28.40Erenbrlcad: if cvs is stable, we can package cvs version
09:29.18brlcadEren: what are you packaging on?
09:29.30Erenbrlcad: hm?
09:29.37Erensorry, I don't get ti
09:29.39Erenit*
09:29.45ertugeratabrlcad: me packaging
09:29.46brlcadi saw the python build file -- what package system is that?
09:30.26brlcadmm, i should too
09:30.27brlcadcya yukonbob
09:30.55Erenbrlcad: ahh :) it's "pisi"
09:31.09ErenPardus uses pisi for package management
09:31.51Erenbrlcad: pisi uses python scripts and xml schemas
09:31.58brlcadthere's one I've not heard of yet :)
09:32.00Erenit's great, and easy-to-understand spec files
09:32.02ertugerataEren: in misc/enigma needed config.sub and config.guess ?
09:33.24brlcadI presume enigma's config files are called during enigma's sub-configure (which should occur now that the libtk test is fixed), but I can't say for sure
09:33.51brlcadthey're certainly not critical files -- enigma is not important (at all)
09:34.51brlcadEren: if you'd like access to keep your spec files in cvs, just let me know -- glad to have folks working on package system integration
09:35.11Erenbrlcad: thank you,
09:35.18Erenwhen we ok, I'll let you know
09:35.37brlcadthere's already a handful in misc/ for archlinux and a few others in the works
09:36.05brlcadit's only really recently that integration has been more reasonably possible now that we've finally gotten away from a customized tk
09:36.54brlcadokay, time to sleep .. cya!
09:37.07brlcadleave me a note here if you need anything, I read the backlog
09:37.26Erenbrlcad: enjoy
09:38.05brlcadoh, and if you do get it working and what to be included in release notifications, let me know and I'll add you to our list in the HACKING file
09:39.02Erenbrlcad: ah, just one question
09:39.13Erenbrlcad: the last change (last commit) is in the tarball?
09:39.40brlcadno, the tarball was posted a couple days ago
09:39.54ErenI mean, the tk problem
09:39.57brlcadnext release won't be for a three or four weeks
09:40.12Erenhmm, ok, so we should checkout cvs repository
09:40.13brlcadthe last change is in cvs
09:40.32brlcadI can make a patch that you can apply to the tarball, but I can't change the posted tarball
09:41.09brlcadif you want to wait, there will be another release in just a couple weeks that will have the fix too
09:41.25Erenbrlcad: ahh, patching release tarball is more common, maybe you can release a patch in your home page?
09:41.42Erenand users who don't want to get cvs checkout will be able to build it
09:42.06brlcadwe try to make monthly releases
09:42.12Erenokay
09:42.22brlcadavoids the headaches of dealing with patches
09:42.28brlcadand keeps things rolling
09:42.59Erenbrlcad: hey, tk problem is fixed, but my friend (ertugerata who don't know English well) says there is an error in "mics/enigma"
09:43.09Erenconfig.sub and config.guess files are missing he says
09:43.21brlcadhrm, that's odd
09:43.35brlcadhe was asking if those files were needed
09:43.46brlcadwas that because of the error or because he wanted to remove them? :)
09:44.19Erenbrlcad: I think, because of the error
09:44.29ertugerataconfig.sub and config.guess in misc/enigma
09:44.32brlcadmore importantly, what exactly is that error?
09:44.55Erenbrlcad: 1 min pls
09:47.01brlcadmy guess would be an autoreconf bug -- it has all sorts of issues with recursive configures, depending on the specific version being used -- I don't recommend calling it directly, we provide an autogen.sh script that takes care of many autotools issues
09:47.54Erenshelltools.system("sh autogen.sh")
09:48.00brlcadsure
09:48.03Erenbrlcad: calls autogen.sh
09:48.07Erennot calls directly
09:48.47brlcadI saw an autoreconf line in there originally, with options -fi or somesuch
09:49.02brlcad(in the .py file)
09:49.08Erenbrlcad: it was fixed
09:49.28ErenI mean, "-fi" option
09:50.02brlcadi mean you call autogen.sh instead of autoreconf
09:50.06brlcadnot together
09:50.16Erenok, that's what I do
09:50.22brlcadokay
09:52.25brlcadalright, have to pick this up later -- it's pretty early/late here.. cya guys
09:52.51Erenbrlcad: cya
09:53.07Erenbrlcad: thanks for you help
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18:12.30louipcfrom 7.10.2 @PATCH_VERSION@ is 2 yeah?
18:19.03brlcadyes
18:19.10brlcadmajor.minor.patch
18:19.26``Erikjust like leenewx
19:25.48yukonbobheh -- My name is linux, and the proper way to say "linux", is  "linux". :)
19:26.01yukonbobuh
19:26.06yukonbob*my name is linus
19:26.13yukonbob(finger memory)
19:26.40yukonbob~lart yukonbob's fingers
19:26.40ibotbeats yukonbob's fingers severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken
19:27.44louipchahah
19:27.56CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/Makefile.am: Some tweaks
19:29.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD.in: ditto
19:31.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/PKGBUILD.static: just in case.
19:32.58CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (brlcad.install brlcad.sh):
19:53.56brlcadjust in case? :)
19:58.42louipcyeah the static one can be used as a reference at least anyways heh. the whole package should be installed in /opt for archlinux though
20:36.45brlcadis /opt required, or just the default?
20:37.03brlcadthat was the only reason for making it configurable, so that it would respond to ./configure --prefix=/opt
20:37.28brlcadpresumably folks that don't want it in opt might have it elsewhere, so it was templatized
20:39.16brlcadeither way, shouldn't have both .in and non.in files as it'll cause cvs to always show one of them modified everytime someone builds
20:46.58louipcbrlcad: it's an archlinux packaging standard to put large self-contained pkgs in /opt
20:47.34louipchmm
20:51.33brlcadyes, but one that can be changed or required? :)
20:51.57brlcadnot a big deal in the least, just a consideration
20:52.19brlcadeither way, both versions shouldn't stay too :)
20:52.25louipcyeah well if BRL-CAD ever gets added to offical repos it'll be in /opt
20:53.45brlcadfor sake of argument though, that's also the case with the freebsd ports system, but users can still use the official ports system and configure a different root if they are so inclined
20:54.14louipcso maybe it should go configurable
20:54.15brlcadmost don't of course, so if you didn't know, you could think that it was the only way
20:54.56brlcaddunno, like I said -- is it really required for arch or just exceptionally common to use opt?
20:59.31yukonbobpwd
20:59.34yukonbobww
20:59.44louipcI'd say it is required. but if someone wants to make a modified pkgbuild that's fine. I wouldn't expect them to go into the brlcad source for them though, rather from the archlinux servers.
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21:35.41louipchmm different distros have different ways of doing things too :/ if you want to automate building pkgs for various distros maybe they should have separate @DISTRO_ROOT@ or something..
21:35.56louipcI'm not really sure how to go about it
21:53.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03louipc * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/ (7 files): OK. Make more configurable. I'll keep PKGBUILD.static to demonstrate Arch Linux packaging standards and defaults.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070820

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070820

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13:04.28*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
14:01.15``Erik"hurricane dickmasher"
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14:50.23louipcdoes that work for you? http://aur.louipc.dontexist.org/test.php
14:51.12louipcoops
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18:40.34CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r236 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: verify an iterator is valid before we erase it.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070821

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070821

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02:19.42brlcadlouipc: yep, it sure does :)
02:23.57louipcyeah hehe I had some trouble setting up the vhost
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04:41.05yukonbobevening cadders ;)
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10:41.00brlcadhowdy yukonbob
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18:14.17yukonbobbrlcad: you were up early (or getting in late) :)
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20:14.26ertugeratasalut
20:15.30MaloeranBonsoir
20:16.03ertugerataMaloeran: tu parle français , moi je parle  un peu
20:17.13MaloeranIt's my first language, but most people here are more likely to be able to help in english
20:17.49ertugerataMaloeran: my first lang is turkish
20:18.18ertugeratai dont speak english
20:18.41MaloeranAh je vois, je peux servir de traducteur alors
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22:11.07``Erikheh
22:13.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c:
22:13.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: Added code to account for discontinuous changes in radius.
22:13.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: Changed bend segments to use a bounding sphere (improved performance)
22:29.46*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096669958.dsl.bell.ca)
23:46.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c:
23:46.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: Added a bounding box check to linear pipe segments.
23:46.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: moved the bounding box/sphere checks into rt_pipe_shot()
23:49.21*** join/#brlcad cad39 (n=5b56015e@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:54.00*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726774.dsl.bell.ca)
23:54.39IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8c6JJG16.html   <---- is this one known?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070822

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070822

00:00.03IriX64don't know why it didn't pick up the glx headers, sorry to have bothered you
00:26.27*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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03:33.39*** part/#brlcad zap (n=deltazap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
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08:24.40*** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (n=rossberg@bz.bzflag.bz)
08:28.10brlcadhey daniel
08:40.02d_rossbergbrlcad: you should get an e-mail right now :-)
08:44.26brlcadk:)
08:44.36brlcad<PROTECTED>
08:44.45brlcad~d_rossberg++
08:45.08brlcadI'm actually using your libraries for a project I'm working on (on Windows)
08:52.58d_rossberg:-))) maybe one day I'll learn how to use the BRL-CAD libraries on Linux
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14:47.32d_rossberg<PROTECTED>
14:47.34d_rossbergexit
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070823

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070823

00:29.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (21 files):
00:29.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: change behavior by 1.0e-77 or 1.0e-39 such that we now consistently check
00:29.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: whether values are > or <= SMALL (or SMALL_FASTF) instead of just < in some
00:29.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: places and > in others. did not change the SQRT_SMALL_FASTFs (other than those
00:29.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: via SMALL) just to make sure there are not any unexpected results with this
00:29.56CIA-27BRL-CAD: batch first. this should of course only tweak edge cases that are well within
00:29.58CIA-27BRL-CAD: floating point fuss, but they should be all treated consistently regardless.
00:39.46*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:43.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (BUGS NEWS):
00:43.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: john fixed the pipe bug where pipes with discontinuous changes in inner radii
00:43.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: would result in bad segments. while he was doing that, he added some space
00:43.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: partitioning optimizations to speed them up some by using bounding boxes and
00:43.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: spheres for the straight ends and bends respectively.
01:21.54*** join/#brlcad CIA-27 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
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13:44.38MinuteElectronSo, I must have missed something being away for 10 days...
14:02.31``Erikhm
14:06.42MinuteElectronI havce to go, the plane is leaving in a few minutes and I need to use the bathroom.
14:06.45MinuteElectronLaterz all.
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18:31.50``Erikhmmmm
18:57.45brlcadfind anything interesting?
18:57.58brlcadheh, cya MinuteElectron
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19:05.32``Erikum
19:05.39``Erikinteresting might be an interesting word for it
19:08.23``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d6e32546b
19:09.00``Erik(with debugging tcl and tk, and some extra printfs in tk's func
19:09.04``Erik)
19:09.48``Erikcrashes on my intel mac, too
19:12.54``Erik(program is reduced in that paste...)
19:14.16``Erik(why, yes, I was exploring some wildassed guesses)
19:29.54``Erikhi, back, I'm erik.
19:29.59``ErikHAR HAR HAR :D
19:30.46MinuteElectronNow, the big question is why the fsck can't I log into my Windows Live Messenger account.
19:31.19``Erikmicrosoft has deemed you unworthy to partake as you have been spotted socializing with unix geeks. :(
19:32.03MinuteElectron:D
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19:36.21``Erikhum, does it on the 32b version, as well
19:38.14MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you busy?
19:41.06pooliobrlcad: ahhhhhhhhh
19:41.25pooliobrlcad: i'll get back to you later, i'm almost done the paper...rawr, sorry. I totally forgot and orientation has been crazy...but now it's time for convocation
19:42.01``Erik32b 85 failed, yet 84 succeeds
19:44.30``Erik64b 84 succeeds
19:55.55MinuteElectronShit, why the hell does it take 6 hours to ultra 7z compress 7GB.
20:10.07``Erikinstalling tcl and tk from the src/other dir and using those on that program causes seg
20:14.51``Erik85 from src/other on linux fails the same way
20:28.15``Erikah, but if I do a Tk_Init() before Tk_GetScrollInfo(), it works. Time to see the macro expansion.
20:50.19``ErikI ssssseeeeeeeee
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21:51.25MinuteElectronbrlcad: ...
21:51.37MinuteElectronbrlcad: What is the ststus of LDAP?
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22:10.20brlcadMinuteElectron: howdy, hope your trip was good!
22:10.43MinuteElectronKind-of.
22:10.58brlcadpoolio: i figured as much .. thanks, though -- hope it's going well for you
22:10.59MinuteElectronlong story really
22:11.15MinuteElectronbrlcad: How have things been going here?
22:11.59brlcadpoolio: not to set a bad precedent, but you can have through the weekend -- the meeting would have been today but I focused on a different matter
22:12.06brlcadMinuteElectron: pretty darn busy
22:12.14MinuteElectronehhh
22:12.19brlcadyou'll have to tell the story later today :)
22:12.23MinuteElectronI guess no LDAP then.
22:12.29MinuteElectronbrlcad: today?
22:12.41MinuteElectronway too long
22:12.48MinuteElectrongrandparents bickering
22:12.56MinuteElectronlots of stuff :D
22:13.47MinuteElectron(there is only 50 minutes left today in my time zone)
22:17.01brlcadwell whenever you'd like :)
22:17.14MinuteElectronmaybe tomorrow
22:17.15brlcadyeah, no ldap just yet, but I should be able to finally get to that this weekend
22:17.21MinuteElectron\o/
22:17.26MinuteElectronthat would be wonderful
22:17.51MinuteElectronthanks
22:17.58MinuteElectronI am tired so will be going to bed now.
22:18.33brlcadaiight
22:18.35brlcadsleep well!
22:18.42MinuteElectronThe light wakes everyone up early in the appartment my grandparents have in Ireland.
22:18.45MinuteElectronthanks, goodnight
22:20.49brlcadheh
22:23.03MinuteElectronbrlcad: Quick question, is your server ipv6 compatible?
22:27.35brlcadinet6 fe80::20d:61ff:fe83:1638%rl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070824

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070824

01:51.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_pipe.c:
01:51.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: Rays parallel to the plane of a bend that missed the bend segment were producing
01:51.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: error messaages from rt_poly_findroot(). Added a check for these misses in the
01:51.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: bend segment shot routine (probably improves performance, too!!!).
05:30.49*** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz)
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13:27.37``Erik*yawn*
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14:03.10``Erikahhhh, I think I found a func for the test
14:11.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
14:11.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: The test for Tk failued for me on several platforms with no valid
14:11.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: DISPLAY set (perhaps due to an X server running and just assuming
14:11.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: unsetting display will do it? or perhaps tcl84, which worked...
14:11.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: *shrug*). Changed the Tk_GetScrollInfo() to Tk_ParseArgv with the
14:11.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: supporting framework and this seems to work consistantly for me.
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19:46.24*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt224-180.northwestel.net)
20:18.46``Erikheh
20:18.49``Erikdamn
20:19.27``Erikfinally got obsd sorta working, but it doesn't have ports on it and doesnt' have a lot of the little niceties of fbsd... so nothing seems to be working when I do muscle memory commands...
20:19.37``Erikand I typed like 4 dos commands before realizing what I was doing
20:19.38``ErikO.o
20:24.35MinuteElectron``Erik: What did you say the path to apache was here?
20:24.50``Erik/usr/local/
20:24.54MinuteElectronthanks
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22:34.49*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
22:56.39*** join/#brlcad jtmuzix (n=jtmuzix@adsl-76-229-234-82.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
22:57.20jtmuzixhow would brl-cad run on a blade 2500, 2 X 1.6 ghz sparc IIIi, 4 gigs ram, 176 x 2 scsi HD, XVR1200?
22:58.52brlcadabout 1729
22:59.16jtmuzixhuh?
22:59.25brlcadexactly what I was thinking with your question :)
22:59.28brlcadwhat do you mean?
22:59.35brlcadit'll run
22:59.35jtmuzixi mean would it be dog slow
22:59.39brlcadit should run just fine
22:59.41jtmuzixor could it render decently
22:59.57jtmuzixi realize that this box is a bit older
23:00.01brlcaddepends what you're comparing it to, should be okay
23:00.07jtmuzixok
23:00.10brlcadi mean it's not blazing, but it sure isn't dog slow either
23:00.35brlcadif you want a better feel, install brl-cad and run the "benchmark" tool
23:00.51brlcadthat will give you a linear metric that will quantify its performance
23:01.35jtmuzixcool then I'll compare the blade 2500 performance to the performance of my 1.6ghz  turion64x2 laptop
23:01.54brlcadyep, should give you a perfect comparison metric
23:02.13brlcadat least holistic cpu performance that directly relates to the render performance
23:03.15jtmuzixand then I'll compare it to my apple 8-way
23:03.16jtmuzixheh
23:03.17jtmuzix:P
23:07.28brlcadit's run on an apple IIc before and systems far older
23:08.32jtmuzixI'm trying to run MGED and it says it's missing the database
23:09.06jtmuzixmust not be vista compatiable?
23:09.07brlcadyou have to create/open a database
23:09.13brlcadit doesn't create one for you by default
23:09.21brlcaduntil you ask it to open one
23:09.24brlcadrun  "opendb test.g
23:09.31brlcads/"//
23:09.38brlcador go to File->New
23:10.54jtmuzixwow this program is pretty advanced
23:11.15jtmuzixwhat other cool 3d programs are available for sparc?
23:11.22jtmuzixengineering related...
23:11.32jtmuzixor is this the best one that's free
23:11.58brlcadit's of course pretty much the best one
23:12.04brlcadand i'm not at all biased
23:12.07jtmuzixthat's cool
23:12.12jtmuzixits great
23:12.20jtmuzixnow I'm going to go install it on my blade 2500
23:12.25jtmuzixactually before i do that
23:12.26brlcaddid you run benchmark?
23:12.28jtmuzixI want to run a test
23:12.46jtmuzixi need to create something that is highly 3d with z buffering and special effects
23:12.52jtmuzixsomething simple but that will push the CPU
23:12.57jtmuzixand then I want to benchmark
23:13.12brlcadthere's a sample geometry file that is mildly complex to render
23:13.40brlcadhavoc.g in your Samples folder if on Windows and in your /usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/ directory on other platforms
23:14.01jtmuzixhow do I run it?
23:14.11jtmuzixi have it loaded,now what?
23:14.40brlcade havoc
23:14.50brlcador go to Tools -> Geometry Browser
23:15.05jtmuzixthis is frickin awesome
23:15.07jtmuzixwow
23:15.10jtmuzixi'm impressed
23:16.35jtmuzixi need to learn commands so i can do stuff
23:16.40jtmuzixI see the helicopter
23:16.47brlcadthere's a bunch of docs on the website
23:16.56jtmuzixnow i want to move it aorund and push the CPU more, add texture if possible, etc etc
23:16.57brlcadthe mged quick reference sheet is good for commands
23:17.15jtmuzixis it possible to add texture in this program?
23:17.18jtmuzixand details
23:17.19brlcadthere's a pretty detailed set of tutorials there as well, though they are gui-centric
23:17.32brlcadthere is a texture shader, yes
23:17.35jtmuzixcool
23:17.43jtmuzixthis will keep me busy for aw hile
23:18.27brlcadtextures aren't generally used heavily, but it is there -- you'll want a stack shader that has texture and some other shading shader (like plastic) if you do apply one
23:18.41brlcadthe advanced tutorial (vol III iirc) goes into how to use them
23:20.03jtmuzixI see
23:20.07jtmuzixthanks for the information
23:20.11brlcadtalk to you later, I'm here most of the time when I'm not eating ;)  feel free to ask more questions and idle or whatever suits ya .. cheers ;)
23:20.15brlcadnp
23:20.20jtmuzixthanks agian
23:45.16``Erikthe interactive display is just wireframe, the textures and stuff are all for raytracing
23:45.38``Erikso there is no zbuffer or anything going on... :)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070825

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070825

01:48.20*** join/#brlcad PK (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
02:04.04yukonbob``Erik: are you an ARL worker/brl-cad dev too?
02:44.22brlcadthere is a z clipping opt on the wireframe, which really should be turned off by default..
03:48.58brlcadhowdy yukonbob
03:49.02brlcadhow goes it
04:11.16yukonbobbrlcad: can't complain  -- nobody'd listen anyway ;)
04:11.22yukonbobyourself?
04:46.32brlcadheh
04:46.46brlcadjust finished watching a movie, and belly is full, so doing pretty good
05:00.07yukonbobnice -- what movie?
05:00.16yukonbob(nice timelag we have going ;)
05:52.41brlcadyeah, just a lil :)
05:52.47brlcadEragon
05:53.17yukonbobheh -- /me saw the making of the Eragon motorcycle on American Chopper... that's all I know of the movie ;)
05:53.59brlcadactually not to bad of a story, knew nothing about it but figured it's kinda hard to mess up a story with dragons
05:54.34brlcadwhich is what caught my eye, the dragon on the cover ;)
05:55.02brlcadi think i read somewhere that there's a book to or something, so I'd expect there might be more to follow
06:01.59yukonbobq: re: shooting rays (remember, I'm still running 7.8.5)
06:02.51yukonbobI ran rtxray -o myfile.bw database.g object_in_db, and got a file myfile.bw
06:03.35yukonbobit won't display in a fb, and when I converted to ps, all I got was a big black square (indicating nothing there, I guess)
06:04.04yukonbobcan you give me a simple pointer or two wrt rays where I can see a result w/o too much fuss?
06:08.38brlcadwill it display to a framebuffer?
06:08.47brlcadrtxray -F/dev/Xl database.g object
06:09.06brlcadand how are you displaying in an fb?
06:09.31brlcadlast week was the departed, pan's labrynth, rocky balboa, and children of men
06:09.39brlcadall pretty excellent
06:10.12brlcadstill left for this weekend are ringu and the persuit of happyness :)
06:11.03yukonbobrungu++
06:11.07yukonbob*ringu
06:11.23yukonbobjapanese horrors are scary
06:14.05yukonbob?I can use /dev/Xn, where n is an incrementing #, but use only once, and once scene is rendered, fb disappears...
06:14.43yukonbobgets a bit of a weird 'blanking' on screen too, but that's got to be because of my dual monitor setup
06:17.39yukonbobnm -- it's working better ;)
06:17.49yukonbobit's always the operator
06:18.11yukonbobdunno what I was doing before, but now I can -o myfile.bw; bw-png myfile.bw > myfile.png
06:25.33yukonbobhow can I change the 'ae' or 'rot' that I'll get w/ the rtxray?
07:03.48*** join/#brlcad jtmuzix (n=jtmuzix@adsl-76-229-234-82.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
07:03.58jtmuzixwhats up, I just discovered this program
07:04.33jtmuzixwhats up, I just discovered this program?
07:04.37jtmuzixits pretty cool for being free..   as a comparison, what are the names of some commerical programs that costs thousands?
07:06.03jtmuzixfor example
07:06.26jtmuzixwhen unix workstations were super popular for CAD and engineering, they ues them, however what software do firms use?
07:06.35jtmuzixor is it developed in-house?
07:09.43jtmuzixwow
07:09.47jtmuzixi am just rtfm
07:10.15jtmuzixthis is way cool
07:10.30jtmuzixi discovered something that compares to what I could never afford
07:10.40jtmuzixnow I just need to learn how to use it
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07:46.00MinuteElectronbrlcad: There is a problem with the website.
08:10.35MinuteElectronfixed
08:15.21*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876309.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:16.22MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you able to provide a list of quotes, one or two will do for now. Also, what is the copyright for the website.
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20:10.38brlcadMinuteElectron: there's a good quote in the AUTHORS files
20:10.42brlcads/files/file/
20:10.45brlcadi'd start with that one
20:11.00MinuteElectronOkay, thanks.
20:11.21brlcadjtmuzix: feel free to ask any questions
20:11.32brlcadah, offline
20:13.51MinuteElectronWow, you were right. There are good quotes invloved in this software.
20:14.19MinuteElectronThat is actually an amazing quote.
20:20.04brlcadprobably :)
20:20.34brlcadwould be nice if it could just be a simple text file that it reads from, so it's really easy to add more
20:21.40MinuteElectronHmm, i was thinking of a simple to understand PHP array.
20:21.41brlcadthat said, not a big deal either way :)
20:21.46brlcadthat could work too
20:22.03MinuteElectronIt would make randomisation easy and pretty simple to add to.
20:22.04brlcadthere's probably a module for quotes, I'd have to imagine
20:22.36MinuteElectronI would be very wary of using that since it has to be interopable between Drupal and MediaWiki.
20:23.27*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876309.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:23.53MinuteElectronbrlcad: http://my.brlcad.org/quotes.php
20:24.05MinuteElectronBut another quote would be useful for ensuring the system works.
20:34.39brlcadMinuteElectron: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/quotes.txt
20:34.58MinuteElectronthanks
20:36.42brlcadthere's a few more I could probably pull together but those are from mike's plan file, so quite apropos
20:38.16MinuteElectronoh I see.
20:38.18MinuteElectroncool
21:06.48MinuteElectronon what?
21:06.58yukonbobhttp://my.brlcad.org/~sean/quotes.txt
21:07.03MinuteElectronsame, crap
21:07.09MinuteElectronyou made me refresh it
21:07.55MinuteElectron:
21:07.57MinuteElectron(
21:19.05``Erikheh
21:39.03brlcadMinuteElectron: heh, i put it back
21:39.42MinuteElectronthanks
21:40.09brlcadgot it? :)
21:40.15MinuteElectronYes, thanks.
21:40.18brlcad:)
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21:55.23``Erikdangit, I didn't!#~@ :D
21:55.31``Erikwhy not just leave it?
21:55.47brlcadhehe
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070826

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070826

06:51.18*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-173-32-95.dyn.iinet.net.au)
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09:13.33LaniakeaIs it possible to include one .g file in another .g file?
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17:58.23MinuteElectrons/w 6
17:58.28MinuteElectronsorry
19:15.40brlcaddone
19:17.21MinuteElectronthanks
20:40.20MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can you take a look at the http://my.brlcad.org/
20:40.25MinuteElectronI have been working on the footer.
20:40.59MinuteElectronremoved the big blocks and replaced it with a line similar to the top.
20:41.18MinuteElectronNot sure if I should switch the search to the left and quotes to the right
20:49.41MinuteElectronyeah, I think it looks nicer on the left
20:52.50MinuteElectronAlso should I credit your nick or your name to the graphics?
21:01.30brlcadhm, looks nice though hopefully the search box is less redundant with some content there
21:02.06brlcadi don't need to be listed for the credits
21:02.29brlcadthere should be a whole page dedicated to the site though for credits and similar matters
21:04.22MinuteElectronok
21:04.31MinuteElectronWho will hold copyright to the site content?
21:04.35MinuteElectronThe authors?
21:04.55MinuteElectronHave you chosen a license yet also?
21:05.12brlcadgood questions
21:06.30brlcadhm, as for copyright matters, my first inclination would be the same terms as the sources so that they can be interchanged (web docs become part of code and vice-vera)
21:07.33MinuteElectronLGPL then?
21:08.12brlcadBDL for the license
21:08.33MinuteElectronI don't know what that is.
21:09.04brlcadBSD documentation license
21:09.25brlcadbasically the BSD license, but terms are worded more appropriately to non-code
21:09.25MinuteElectronOh, okay.
21:10.02MinuteElectronIs there a difference between the BSD Documentation License and the FreeBSD one?
21:10.25brlcadyeah, it's basically a generalized form of the FreeBSD one
21:10.50MinuteElectronDo you have a link?
21:11.03brlcadhttp://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/legal/bdl.txt
21:11.13MinuteElectronthanks
21:11.46brlcadThe copyright line it refers to isn't in that file, but is a simple two-line
21:12.18MinuteElectronok
21:12.27MinuteElectronand the authors of the content will hold copyright?
21:13.23brlcadexample in use: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/librt/librt.3?view=markup
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21:15.04brlcadin the source code, we have a pretty strict convention of giving proper credit and attribution, but requiring assignment so the legalities are easier to manage/defend
21:15.26brlcadi'd be inclined to do the same for the site, but it's certainly not nearly an issue there
21:16.41MinuteElectronthere?
21:18.32brlcadexample of an "about site" page, http://slashdot.org/about.shtml  and http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/credits/
21:18.47brlcadthere being "on the website" or "in the documentation" which are mildly interchangeable
21:19.06MinuteElectronok
21:19.10brlcadweb is sort of a publication format
21:19.20MinuteElectronok
21:19.28brlcadagain, not a big deal, I could probably be convinced either way if someone felt strongly
21:19.43brlcadthe code is the one that has additional legal constraints
21:20.13MinuteElectronSo this would be an alright copyright tagline "All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners."?
21:20.29brlcadplus by using the BDL, it really doesn't matter -- you can do pretty much anything with the docs, even sell them, just so long as you don't claim that you wrote them if you didn't :)
21:20.46MinuteElectroncool
21:21.02brlcadsure, that's fine
21:21.28brlcadalthough that almost goes without saying :)
21:21.38brlcadthey're owned by .. their owners ;)
21:22.28MinuteElectrontrue
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21:31.52brlcad~MinuteElectron++
21:31.56brlcadnice work on the quotes :)
21:32.00thing0hey brlcad
21:32.17brlcadhowdy thing0
21:32.34MinuteElectronthanks
21:32.40thing0how u been brlcad?
21:32.41MinuteElectronStill needs more populating.
21:32.50brlcadyeah it does
21:33.02MinuteElectronand when there is a long one it ruins everything
21:33.05brlcadthing0: pretty good, quite busy -- still recovering from being away at siggraph
21:33.13thing0ahh siggraph
21:33.15thing0how was it?
21:33.41brlcadvery excellent
21:33.46thing0nice
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070827

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070827

00:11.07*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
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08:21.26MinuteElectronbrlcad: I am nearly done on the website: just the sidebar to sort out.
08:21.33MinuteElectronNot sure what to do, have you any ideas.
08:49.26brlcada few
08:50.01brlcadno login needed on the main/front page -- there will be just one dedicated login page
08:50.43brlcadthe sidebar can have a login icon similar to haiku's or something else, but the whole form is a bit much
08:52.04brlcadi see the sidebar having more frequently changing data and quick access to important information
08:53.13brlcadsome ideas include a downloads link, a direct link to the wiki, a direct bug-report link, and a running poll
08:53.40MinuteElectronCool.
08:54.51brlcadfrequently accessed docs, a picture/screenshot of the day are others (perhaps a random link into a matching Gallery2 image gallery)
08:55.49MinuteElectronok
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11:16.32MinuteElectronI am having some difficulties brlcad - I cannot connect to your server from my home PC, but I can connect from someone elses server.
11:17.12brlcadooh, you might have gotten yourself firewalled
11:17.26brlcaddid you have several bad password attempts perhaps?
11:17.48MinuteElectronI changed my password a few minutes\hours ago.
11:17.51brlcador lots of simultaneous connections
11:17.55MinuteElectronBut nothing since then.
11:17.56Laniakeais it possible to include one .g file in another?
11:18.15brlcadLaniakea: yes, see the mged quick reference, files section -- dbconcat
11:18.19MinuteElectronbrlcad: It is weird, the connection just dopped.
11:18.28brlcadMinuteElectron: send me your IP
11:18.33MinuteElectron82.7.33.28
11:18.46Laniakeabrlcad: interesting
11:18.53MinuteElectronI was in the middle of typing an IRC message then the connection timed out.
11:18.55Laniakeabrlcad: when will be the new brlcad homepage?
11:19.17brlcadMinuteElectron: hm, you're not blocked
11:19.29MinuteElectronI will go chat to the router manager.
11:19.31brlcadprobably just a temporary routting issue at your
11:19.41brlcadlocal area, or your ISP, etc
11:19.57MinuteElectronmaybe, but I have my suspicions.
11:20.16brlcadLaniakea: when it's done -- really hard to say -- have to begin populating the site next with a ton of info next
11:20.46MinuteElectronI guess, nothing chaned on the router.
11:21.19Laniakeawhat does -s and -p mean with dbconcat?
11:23.10MinuteElectronI find it odd that I cannot ping or view web pages on the server either.
11:52.11brlcadLaniakea: they indicate whether to append as a _suffix or a _prefix
11:52.53brlcadthe default is a straight up prefixOLDNAME with no underscore
11:52.53brlcadthe default is a straight up prefixOLDNAME with no underscoor no prefix if you don't specify one
11:53.28brlcade.g. if you use the File->Import menu option, it'll prompt you, for example
11:53.51brlcadMinuteElectron: if it's a router, I'd expect that, though curiously I can ping your ip from .bz
11:54.07Laniakeabrlcad: is this used commonly to establish hierarchy?
11:54.08brlcadwhich might indicate a different return route
11:54.25brlcadLaniakea: to establish hierarchy? .. nnno
11:54.36brlcadits used to pull in geometry usually from other files
11:54.41MinuteElectronbrlcad: dw
11:54.42brlcadoften used in conjunction with keep
11:54.50Laniakeawhat does keep do?
11:55.07brlcadkeep extracts a portion of one .g file to its own file
11:55.24brlcadlike you could keep a bolt from your model, and dbconcat it into another to import it
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13:38.13smallfoot-7.10? when?
13:46.39``Erikhuh?
13:48.10``Erik7.10.0 was 2007/01/27, 7.10.2 was 2007/08/16
13:48.19``Erikor so
13:49.26``Erikhm, mebbe 7.10.0 was 2007/4/8
13:52.39smallfoot-oh
13:53.32smallfoot-win32 build too?
13:54.16``Erikwe don't release windows binaries, they're donated by someone who went and compiled them usually... but it SHOULD compile with msvc6, msvc7, cygwin and mingw32, and mebbe others
13:54.30smallfoot-BRL-CAD for Windows  7.8.0  April 13, 2006
13:54.35smallfoot-it never comes new release!
13:54.38smallfoot-1 year odl! EVEN MORE!!
13:54.43smallfoot-make new release
13:54.46``Erik... we release the code... not the binaries
13:54.55``Eriknone of the developers use windows
13:55.07smallfoot-release the binary too, not onyl code
13:55.19smallfoot-most people cant compile their own stuff, only nerds do that
13:55.30``Erikhey, feel free to download cygwin and compile it, if you give us a zip, we'll post it :)
13:55.41``Erikhow can I make a windows binary if I don't have a windows machine?
13:56.03``Erikand, uh, thanks for the insult O.o
14:37.25PrezKennedyhaha... nerds
14:43.08smallfoot-lol
14:43.08smallfoot-ya
14:43.12smallfoot-normal people dont use compilers
14:43.21MinuteElectronSTFU
14:44.18MinuteElectronUsually I don't take offense, but both are you are just being completely insulting in front of evryone in here (I myself use a compiler often).
14:44.52smallfoot-ya, and you never got laid
14:44.57smallfoot-and you got 2cm thick glasses
14:45.02smallfoot-you have all the starwars DVD collection
14:45.08smallfoot-and a Bobba Fett doll
14:45.25smallfoot-you are like the white Steve Urkel
15:22.16``Erikhttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/276304
16:08.26``Erikwhat a little bitch O.o
16:13.42MinuteElectronindeed
16:13.51MinuteElectrontoo bad brlcad is the only operator for this channel.
16:14.48MinuteElectronI would vote to block him, but that probably wouldn't happen.
16:14.55MinuteElectron*ban
16:19.41EugenesLairsmallfoot annoyed also on the #gaygeeks channel
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17:33.27brlcadhm
17:35.08MinuteElectronhmm?
17:35.22*** mode/#brlcad [+b *!smallfoo*@*] by brlcad
17:35.38brlcadjust a lil twerp
17:36.15MinuteElectronThat is the ban on this channel.
17:36.22MinuteElectron*only
17:36.33MinuteElectronThank you.
17:37.18brlcadhey, will of the residents have priority ;)
17:37.41*** mode/#brlcad [+b MinuteElectron!*@*] by brlcad
17:37.46brlcadoops!
17:37.50*** mode/#brlcad [-b MinuteElectron!*@*] by brlcad
17:37.51brlcadheh
17:37.54MinuteElectron:D
17:38.02*** mode/#brlcad [+oo MinuteElectron ``Erik] by brlcad
17:38.11MinuteElectronThanks.
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17:38.25brlcadjust in case I got the mask wrong and he returns to being an annoyance
17:38.53PrezKennedyMinuteElectron, i was mocking him
17:39.10MinuteElectronOh, ok.
17:39.12MinuteElectronSorry.
17:39.17MinuteElectronMy bad.
17:40.30PrezKennedyim installing cygwin right now so yeah... i don't have a lot of room to talk ;-)
17:40.41MinuteElectronheh
17:40.57MinuteElectronI gotta run, going to grandparents.
17:41.01MinuteElectronLater all.
17:41.02PrezKennedyfarewell!
17:41.12brlcadcya MinuteElectron
17:42.53PrezKennedyhey maybe i could do something useful and compile brlcad for windoze
17:45.54brlcadyou could become the primary windows maintainer!
17:46.14brlcadkermit would love that heh
17:46.38brlcadat least bill would
17:51.45PrezKennedyhaha
17:52.49PrezKennedyim at home in windows or linux, i just use windows because i have some hardware that i KNOW i wouldnt be able to get working in linux
17:58.39``Erikdamn, pedro got his computer stolen
17:59.03``Erikw00t, I pwn! /mdop!!!
18:04.18``Erikewwwwwwww, my bit got sticky
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19:21.27CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the C++ compiler to test for the TNT/JAMA header
20:11.35*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
20:20.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: This was not the fix for OpenBSD. Without it, OBSD4.1 seems to work just fine.
20:23.24PrezKennedycompiling this in cygwin is going to take forever
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070828

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070828

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07:07.01Beyond_The_GraveDoes anybody have this installed on ubuntu?
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08:33.44MinuteElectronOh,
08:33.50MinuteElectronI was just about to tell him something.
08:34.19MinuteElectronPrezKennedy: How's it going?
08:35.54MinuteElectroncygwin is annoying - you can only have irssi for windows installed OR cygwin.
08:35.58MinuteElectronanyway, website
09:04.13MinuteElectronbrlcad: What do you think? http://my.brlcad.org/
10:14.53CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use AC_LANG_PUSH, AC_LANG_POP for going into/out of C++ testing mode
10:17.08brlcadMinuteElectron: when the quote overlaps the search, search goes down instead of causing the quote to wrap..
10:17.37brlcadalso think it needs the bezel to match the style above
10:18.14brlcadmaybe colored background too so that parallels, otherwise the bar is just kinda sitting there
10:19.09MinuteElectronbezel?
10:23.52MinuteElectronI don't understand what bezel means brlcad.
10:28.06MinuteElectronand which bar are you talking about?
10:39.58MinuteElectronThe problem with the footer has been fixed.
10:53.23brlcadbezel is the curve that makes the search box blend with the bar
10:53.35brlcadthere are two on the top bar (one above, one below)
10:53.55MinuteElectronI see,
10:54.02MinuteElectronI was going to do that, I will work on that now.
10:54.11MinuteElectronbrlcad: What about the parallels?
10:54.33brlcadhaving the footer match the header (i.e. something non-black)
10:54.49brlcadotherwise the footer is just kind of out of place
10:54.52MinuteElectronoh, ok.
10:55.01MinuteElectrongreen?
10:55.21brlcadi actually like it black, but it doesn't work well with a black content area, so one of the two needs to change :)
10:55.36MinuteElectronI will experiment.
10:55.47brlcadtry palette colors
10:56.00MinuteElectrondo you have a link for that?
10:56.06brlcadlooking
10:56.59brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/~sean/color_palette.png
10:57.08MinuteElectronthanks
10:58.03Laniakeahmm, looks like you are taking the design seriously
10:58.08Laniakeacolours, fonts,...
10:58.15Laniakeahighlights and shadows...
10:58.34LaniakeaI like the colours.
10:58.41brlcadaim towards having a consistent style
10:58.47MinuteElectronok
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12:49.11PrezKennedycrazy nocturnal IRC goers ;-)
12:50.13``Erikhum
12:50.24``Erik4547 vgr's inside of parallels
12:50.58PrezKennedyfor the Mac?
12:52.36``Erikhrm? host is a mac, guest is obsd
12:54.50Laniakea``Erik: now I should download the BRL-CAD CVS and try it on my obsd?
13:26.13PrezKennedythis is the largest collection of mac users ive ever seen!
13:26.14PrezKennedy:-P
13:54.26``ErikLaniakea: it worked fine for me, I actually un-did what I thought may've been a fix...
13:56.26``Erikthis was on a just-updated 4.1
13:59.02Laniakea``Erik: so do I need to update from 4.0 to 4.1?
13:59.50``ErikI d'no, I grabbed 41 *shrug* does it still fail for you on 40?
14:05.14``Erik"velcro sport corset"
14:20.52``Erikoi, hoolio
15:37.15CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: readme moved with version bump
15:49.52CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/Makefile.am: add DEPS line
15:50.58``Erikoi, hoolio
15:51.01``Erikwoops
15:53.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (Makefile.am dfft.c): coerce dfft to use bu_getopt instead of the big whileifelseifelseif construct
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15:57.23CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: fix for "out of dir" builds
16:00.58``Erikhummmmmm
16:01.06``Erikfast eddies? or donnas?
16:19.16PrezKennedyoh man... i want Fast Eddies
16:19.23PrezKennedyWhat's Donnas?
17:40.22``ErikPLACE ON POST
17:40.26``Erikwoops, caps lock
17:40.34``Erikwe went tot he bowling alley instead, beer good *grunt* :)
17:40.58``Erikfast eddies is a lot better than donnas O.o but a lot further away
17:45.17*** join/#brlcad Beyond_The_Grave (n=greg@adsl-66-136-149-90.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net)
17:45.33Beyond_The_GraveDoes anybody have this installed on ubuntu?
17:50.12``Eriknot I... what's the issue?
17:50.22``Erik(heh, kansas city, I was there a few weeks ago)
18:01.13*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
18:02.34MinuteElectronOh how I hate incompatible software,
18:03.04Beyond_The_GraveWell, my problem is that I can't get it to run once everything has installed... which program actually runs it?
18:03.30Beyond_The_GraveSorry for the wait
18:05.41Beyond_The_GraveIt didn't make an icon on the menu to run the program...
18:05.59MinuteElectronheh - I don't think it is meant to.
18:06.26MinuteElectronI have never actually compiled it so I wouldn't know.
18:06.53Beyond_The_GraveWell, I was hoping to get help to figure that out...
18:07.47Beyond_The_GraveIt's installed, but when I tried to click on the "mged" like the ubuntu forums said to do it didn't work...
18:08.56PrezKennedytry running mged in bash or something
18:09.10Beyond_The_GraveShould I have stuck with a lower version, cause I'm using the 7.10.2, and I don't know if that's a beta or not?
18:09.53Beyond_The_GraveIt's says the command doesn't exist
18:10.42Beyond_The_GraveWhich one is the one to run brl-cad?
18:11.00Beyond_The_GraveAnd what's up with having to make a path?
18:11.29``Erikthat's a real release
18:11.30``Erikupdate your path
18:11.36``Erikexport PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin
18:11.36Beyond_The_GraveHow?
18:11.50``Erikthen you should be able to run 'mged'
18:12.10MinuteElectrontry from the bin folder of brlcad typing "./mged"
18:12.23Beyond_The_GraveIs that brl-cad, or is that one tool?
18:12.28``Erikbut "." might not be int he path, so the subtools (like rt) might not work
18:12.47``ErikBRL-CAD is over 400 'tools'... mged is the fancy gui frontend/modeller
18:12.49MinuteElectronok
18:12.51``Erikfancy, heh
18:13.01PrezKennedyfancy as a freight train!
18:13.12Beyond_The_GraveSo from mged can you use all the other tools?
18:15.06brlcadnot all of them, but several of the more frequently used tools
18:15.37Beyond_The_GraveOK
18:16.19brlcadBeyond_The_Grave: there should also be an mged.sh script or something, I think that's what one of the ubuntu guys did that made the deb
18:16.30brlcadthat might be what you can "just click"
18:17.03MinuteElectronbrlcad: Do you have a few moments?
18:17.07brlcadwhen it installs, it _usually_ is installed into /usr/brlcad by default given the size and number of apps that are actually installed
18:17.35brlcadPrezKennedy: haha
18:18.14*** part/#brlcad Beyond_The_Grave (n=greg@adsl-66-136-149-90.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net)
18:18.21brlcadMinuteElectron: of course, go ahea
18:18.24brlcadd
18:18.29MinuteElectronI have been experimenting with different color combinations.
18:18.38MinuteElectronNon of them work as a block of color.
18:18.47brlcadhmm
18:18.52brlcadbecause of the bar?
18:19.26brlcadi'd only expect the hilights or the shadows to even be feasible, and even then probably would still need to change the bar's color maybe .. "maybe"
18:19.43MinuteElectronNo, when the page is really short the footer takes up most of the page thus meaning the color is very distracting.
18:20.04brlcadi see that :)
18:20.14MinuteElectronIt might be possible to make the footer the same size regardless.
18:20.26MinuteElectrons/might be/is
18:20.27brlcadhm
18:20.41MinuteElectronbut that would cause extra whitespace (actually blackspace)
18:21.17brlcadyeah, what about fixing the footer to the bottom of the window, absolute coords from base
18:21.28MinuteElectronI can do that, one moment.
18:22.54MinuteElectronWhich web browser are you using.
18:23.19MinuteElectronIt works as desired in Firefox, but not Opera - I will debug once a design is finalised.
18:23.48MinuteElectronThe trouble is when you scroll it stays in the same place.
18:24.11MinuteElectronIt doesn't go to the very bottom, only the bottom of the window.
18:24.16MinuteElectronLet me try something.
18:24.32``Erikhehehe http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/If-Only-Id-Been-More-Explicit.aspx
18:29.28MinuteElectronIt works alright now, but the background color is gone.
18:29.38MinuteElectronI will diagnose once I have had dinner.
18:48.43MinuteElectronPart in #defocus - freenode just broke 40k connected users record.
18:54.50*** join/#brlcad Beyond_The_Grave (n=greg@adsl-66-136-149-90.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net)
18:54.58Beyond_The_GraveHow do you get rid of BRL?
18:58.41Beyond_The_GraveHow do you get rid of BRL?
18:59.31*** part/#brlcad Beyond_The_Grave (n=greg@adsl-66-136-149-90.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net)
18:59.42``Erikum
18:59.47``Erikdecrement the first letter by one?
19:00.08*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-96-70.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:25.50MinuteElectronbrlcad: Have you just done something to the site?
19:27.46MinuteElectronbecause it is broekn due to ldap integration errors
19:50.35PrezKennedyi love Worse Than Failure :-)
19:51.25MinuteElectronyeah
20:13.06*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548772CB.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:40.19*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
20:43.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): DEPS updates
21:01.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 4 dirs): DEPS updates
21:31.13CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/image.c): make the RGB data buffers unsigned
21:36.36brlcadMinuteElectron: no, I've not done anything
21:36.42brlcadI went from lunch to meetings most of the day
21:36.49``Erikew
21:36.55brlcadinformal
21:37.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: Oh, ok.
21:37.16MinuteElectronWeird.
21:37.21MinuteElectronAnyway.
21:37.33MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can you take a look at the site, have I chosen the right color?
21:37.50CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/image.c: explicitely cast to keep osX happy
21:40.19``Erikbrlcad, have you looked at the 74 'off by one' pixels in m35?
21:41.15``Eriknote to self; don't resize pix-fb windows. O.o
21:48.54brlcad``Erik: at one point or another, yes
21:49.03brlcadall floating point fuzz issues
21:49.54brlcadthere used to be two others that had off-by-one consistently, but I believe I just recently fixed them with the tolerance tweaks I added
21:54.00``Erikthe m35 was the only in the benchmark suite that gave me off by 1's, and most of them were glancing hits on toriii
21:54.05``Eriks/i$//
21:54.23brlcadyeah, that's new
21:54.27brlcadlike as of last week iirc
21:55.06``Erikok, mebbe I'll look at it tomorrow
21:56.58brlcadi might be confusing plats too as it's different for plats
21:57.09brlcadbsd matches the vgr ref pretty close because it was running a bsd
21:57.28``ErikI'm building on the mac to see if the diffs are there, I have a pixdiff from an amd64 fbsd box if you want
21:57.50``ErikI think you know the one, it's in /tmp if you're curious *shrug*
21:58.50brlcadiirc, the grazings on m35 are all torus-related
21:59.10brlcadnah, I've seen it before
21:59.27brlcadjust pixdiff m35.pix ../pix/m35.pix | pix-fb -F/dev/Xl
23:24.43*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070829

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070829

02:12.49*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
04:25.17yukonbob.
04:44.48*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
04:52.15brlcad..
04:53.38brlcadand they responded.. I thought we'd lost touch!
05:50.35PrezKennedythe luck of the Internets
05:54.29PrezKennedyhey brlcad, according to slashdot Apple is selling more than 1 in 6 laptops bought these days
05:55.32PrezKennedycourse when the alternative is Vista, even expensive fruit becomes a viabe option ;-)
07:20.40*** join/#brlcad cad01 (n=dc85121e@bz.bzflag.bz)
07:38.54*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:25.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: If you get a moment please take a look at the website.
13:34.44brlcadmuch better, almost there
13:34.49brlcadit doesn't expand very far
13:35.49brlcadand I get a scrollbar the height of the base that will let me scroll down into black
13:36.36MinuteElectronyeah it all got fscked
13:36.41MinuteElectronI have to redesign it.
13:36.50MinuteElectronthe footer
13:36.51MinuteElectronslightly
13:36.58MinuteElectronto make it work how it should do
13:41.11``Erikhmmm
13:41.22``Erikbrlcad, gonna be in at 10:30?
14:15.51brlcadyes
14:46.44*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-092-065.pools.arcor-ip.net)
14:56.43*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876805.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:09.14*** join/#brlcad iday (n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:34.13*** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu)
16:22.56*** join/#brlcad oxigenio (n=cafeviei@200.180.138.74)
16:25.39*** part/#brlcad oxigenio (n=cafeviei@200.180.138.74)
17:48.03*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@bz.bzflag.bz)
17:48.49MinuteElectron:(
17:48.54MinuteElectron.w 13
18:09.51``Erikok
18:16.25MinuteElectronsorry - I type to fast
18:25.49``Eriktyping too fast is not the issue, typing too sloppily is :D
18:26.16CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/orle-fb.1: document the -F option. Fixes PR#1774679
18:28.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/orle-fb.c: this is orle-fb, not rle-fb.
18:29.00MinuteElectronsorry
18:31.44CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/fb-rle.1: change rle-fb to fb-rle in synopsis. PR#1775562
18:34.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/imod.c: fix program name in usage string. PR#1775598
18:36.22CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/plstat.c: program name is plstat, not pldebug (in usage and perror output). PR#1776683
18:42.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtedge.1: rtedge may have produced "plot" files in the past, but spits out pix images these days. PR#1779521
18:43.43CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mk/mk_wire.1: this is mk_wire, not mk_handle. PR#1775606
19:07.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: Allow intel macs to see more than 2 from bu_avail_cpus().. PR#1784346
19:12.59*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron)
19:26.51``Eriklets see how much my new footstool tromps my 'work' machine for vgr's... the 'work machine' is sitting at 11128...
19:56.14*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-96-70.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:08.42*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
20:58.13``Erikhmmmmm
20:58.33``Erik27633, but world pood itself
20:58.34``Erikpixcmp pixels:   101034 matching,        0 off by 1,     1878 off by many
21:06.42brlcadwow
21:07.05brlcadnow that's halfway to a new record
21:08.05MinuteElectronbrlcad: Okay, I think the footer is finished.
21:08.05brlcadeek, heh
21:08.05MinuteElectronThis is the only color that works.
21:08.06MinuteElectronThe others look ugly in the footer.
21:08.18``Erikeck, and those don't? O.o *duck*
21:08.52MinuteElectron?
21:09.09MinuteElectronbrlcad: Do you like it?
21:09.09``Erikmebbe I have no color sense :) the peach and green don't seem to fit so well to me
21:10.49brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/tmp/screenie.png
21:11.13MinuteElectronOh for fuck sake.
21:11.19MinuteElectronARGH
21:11.26``Erikheh
21:11.32``Erikfirefox seems to render ok
21:11.38MinuteElectronIt works in Firefox.
21:11.53MinuteElectronIt works well in lynx
21:12.17``Erikseamonkey?
21:12.23MinuteElectronseamonkey==firefox
21:12.33``Erikummmm
21:12.37MinuteElectronsame rendering engine
21:12.37``Erikthe smalltalk html renderer.
21:12.43``Erikin, uh, squeak
21:12.43MinuteElectronI don't know
21:12.44``Erik:D
21:13.03``Erikdon't push me, I'll find some esoteric thing somewhere that maybe 2 people have heard of
21:13.03``Erik:D
21:13.15MinuteElectronok
21:13.37MinuteElectronbrlcad: What version of Safari do you use?
21:13.59poolioWhat an ugly website you guys have ;)
21:14.00brlcadseems to be 2.0.4
21:14.22MinuteElectronbrlcad: Have you any plans to upgrading to 3.0 - I can't test it 2.0 since I don't have a Mac.
21:14.40brlcaddoes it work in 3.0?
21:14.44MinuteElectronNearly.
21:15.27MinuteElectronIt works in Safari 3 now.
21:15.49``Erikit rendered ok for me in safari 2.0.4 just now
21:16.08MinuteElectronHeh, can you try again brlcad?
21:16.17MinuteElectronIt fails bad in Opera though.
21:16.25MinuteElectronIt looks in Opera like it looks in Safari 2.
21:16.30brlcadstill looks the same
21:16.53brlcadthere we go
21:16.57MinuteElectronWorks in Opera now without me changing anything.
21:17.03brlcadother than scrolling
21:17.10MinuteElectronThis is all very weird.
21:17.17MinuteElectronI see the scrolling.
21:17.26brlcadnow it's at the bottom, but it's still got the scrolling problem from before
21:20.51MinuteElectronI am trying to find the CSS rules.
21:23.00MinuteElectronOkay.
21:23.03MinuteElectronGot it.
21:23.21brlcadwooohoo
21:23.24brlcadso you did :)
21:23.38MinuteElectronBut it loks ugly on long pages now.
21:23.50MinuteElectronThere was padding near the bottom to make it look nicer on long pages.
21:23.56MinuteElectronLet me see if I can replace it.
21:24.36brlcadbe back in a bit
21:24.47brlcadnice progress
21:24.47MinuteElectronbye
21:24.52MinuteElectronthanks
21:25.21brlcadcolors still need tweaking, and I should populate some real content in to see how it actually looks/works
21:25.27MinuteElectroncolors?
21:25.28MinuteElectronhuh?
21:26.34brlcadthe baby blue footer is a bit quirky
21:26.45MinuteElectron:( :D
21:26.51MinuteElectronquirky?
21:27.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c:
21:27.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: Remove unnecessary __ppc__ test (use __APPLE__ to do both PPC and Intel).
21:27.04CIA-21BRL-CAD: Get the number of available CPU's instead of present CPU's on a Mac.
21:27.05brlcadgrabs too much attention for a footer at the moment
21:27.15MinuteElectronok
21:27.17brlcadmaybe with the content area filled it won't be so bac
21:27.25MinuteElectronmaybe
21:27.33MinuteElectronit doens't
21:27.35brlcador maybe if a colored content area is used
21:27.39MinuteElectrontake a look at the admin panel
21:27.52MinuteElectronThat is possible, I might experiment.
21:28.16brlcadalright, back in a bit
21:28.19MinuteElectronok
21:28.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: Mac CPU detection stuff
21:29.36``Erikaaaaaaaand home time :D
21:32.36MinuteElectronSpeaking of food I need a drink to cure my headache.
21:32.41MinuteElectronAnd food.
21:32.47MinuteElectronme hungry...
21:58.35MinuteElectronI'm sorry, the footer dies in Internet Explorer.
22:33.10MinuteElectronHahaha it was caching.
22:42.10``Erikahhhh home at last
22:42.43MinuteElectronit takes you over an hour to get home?
22:46.55``Erikusually about 45 minutes
22:47.22``Erikthere was an accident (some soccer mom in a minivan decided to swerve across a turn lane and into oncoming traffic...) which slowed things up
22:47.32``Erikand I stopped at the atm and package store on the way *shrug* :)
22:49.30MinuteElectronkl
22:55.43MinuteElectronHahahaha suck this IE.
23:02.37yukonbobMinuteElectron: what's the url for your work?
23:03.11MinuteElectronhttp://my.brlcad.org/
23:15.04MinuteElectronIt isn't finished yet.
23:15.26MinuteElectronThe footer is completely finished except for maybe a change in colors.
23:16.26MinuteElectronThe header is complete except the items changing color when they are open.
23:16.32MinuteElectronAnd I need to do the sidebar.
23:16.41MinuteElectronAfter that I change the color scheme.
23:26.46*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:27.34PrezKennedyi can say i was the first to see it in IE :-P
23:34.17MinuteElectron?
23:35.57MinuteElectronDoes it look that bad?
23:36.06MinuteElectronI thought I ironed out all the IE bugs.
23:40.56MinuteElectronI have to sleep.
23:40.59MinuteElectronGoodnight.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070830

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070830

00:40.20PrezKennedyits good
04:25.16brlcadnot sure it's worth it to do anything about it, but maybe :)
04:35.26*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753756.dsl.bell.ca)
05:17.38CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: check for vim before looking for vi, add comments on order preference, and don't invoke xterm if we're IF_TK. this fixes sf feature request 1219084 (default editor vim instead of vi suggested)
05:20.54yukonbobbrlcad: you in?
05:21.42CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Mged now tests for vim before vi for text editing, this implements sf feature request 1219084 (default editor vim instead of vi suggested)
05:28.25yukonbob^--- bad idea, brlcad :P
05:29.33CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: reword for consistency
05:29.38brlcadwhat's up?
05:30.18yukonbobhey :)
05:30.25brlcadthere's a list of editors it checks in order, you can override to anything (and should if you really want anything other than jove or ed)
05:31.08yukonbobshouldn't it just use "vi" as standard (like most *nix tools), if it can't find EDITOR environment variable?
05:31.37yukonbob(or perhaps check the OS, and use notepad for Windows, [whatever] for MacOS, and vi for other *nix)
05:31.56brlcadthat's what it effectively does, per os
05:32.20brlcadand 'ed' is the actual default if you go back far enough
05:32.33yukonbobEDITOR is the "correct" way, imo. If somebody wants to use vim, nvi, elvis, joe, nano, pico, emacs, xemacs, gedit, gvim, [whatever], setup EDITOR
05:32.51yukonbob;)
05:32.57brlcadexactly, it respects editor
05:32.59yukonbobthe one true editor, ed :)
05:33.10yukonbobso why make allowances for vim?
05:33.32brlcadbecause there were (necessarily) already allowances for other platforms
05:33.55yukonbobslippery slope... /me disagrees, but...
05:34.09yukonbobanyway, before I saw those commits, I had another q: :)
05:34.17yukonbobsee: http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png
05:35.58brlcadthe software is molded by its users too .. he has bothered to make several substantial contributions, so it's a minor deal to have it check
05:36.55brlcadnot so slippery since it's really "up to the app" if EDITOR isn't set, so it could just as well make them tap out in morse code
05:37.00yukonbobbut the answer to his question is not recompiling brlcad, it's "set EDITOR=vim" ...
05:37.20brlcadbtw, the default before all of this really was 'ed'
05:37.33brlcad(in brl-cad)
05:37.37yukonbobheh -- I guess, considering the age ;)
05:38.48brlcadanother contentious thing it does now is that it tries non-modal editors before the modal ones too, just think of the editor flame wars!
05:39.29brlcadanyways, I digress.. what's the question :)
05:39.59yukonbobgah --- strip that stuff out ;) -- the users environment belongs in environment variables.. I use xemacs, and that's what I do -- and I'd never send a bug report to get xemacs into the list of editors to check for...
05:40.08yukonbobdo you see the pic in that link?
05:40.14brlcadyep
05:40.27yukonbobOK -- that's a 32-hole 3x bicycle wheel...
05:40.45brlcadif you say so :)
05:40.47yukonbobthe spokes are composite objects, but the long part is obviously just a cylinder
05:41.19brlcadnice model
05:41.46yukonbob32-hole == 16 holes per side of the hub, and 3x is read as "3 cross", because if you look carefully at any spoke, you'll see on it's tangental exit from the hub hole to the rim hole, it crosses 3 other spokes...
05:41.50yukonbobthx :)
05:42.09brlcadreminds me of http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292&ssid=25099 but with better spokes
05:43.30yukonbobI was wondering: is it academic to "fix" the collision of the spokes at their crosses? In a real-world build, the spokes bend a bit on their path from the hub to the wheel, going over or under spokes they cross... now there's a "wire" element (experimental?) that does this... would it be applicable in this case?
05:46.09brlcadnot sure what you're referring to by "wire" but there is a pipe primitive that might be ideal as it can be fed through arbitrary paths
05:46.15yukonbobthe rim in the sourceforge screenshot is also not accurate -- typically spoke holes are offset to the side the spokes are coming from (ie: not right down the center of the rim, but alternate slightly right, slightly left).
05:46.40yukonbobah -- pipe. that sounds right
05:46.44brlcadto 'fix' the collision would probably be wrong, they're either connected material or they're not
05:47.15brlcadif they're not, they should account for it, otherwise various analysis methods would readily fail (e.g. FEA)
05:47.36brlcadpipe is covered in the "principles of effective modeling" iirc
05:47.57brlcadhmm
05:48.21yukonbobok -- the same "issue" I'm having (in my head) with the spokes can be imagined as such:
05:48.53yukonboba box, with a string joining kitty-corners, and another string on the same plane joining the other corners.
05:49.00brlcadhm, mine are perfectly in the  center :)
05:49.10brlcadthat's not mine in the pic, but similar tire
05:49.35yukonbobah -- mine aren't... high-end or not?
05:50.23yukonbobanyway, back to the spokes :)
05:50.27brlcadahh, these are moderately high end road tires
05:50.37brlcadprobably road vs off-road
05:51.15yukonbobdo you see how the spokes would behave in the physical world?
05:51.59brlcadyes, those even with your string example, they just come really close -- tangent even, and you could model that if you want
05:52.33yukonbobthe spokes really are woven though... in a real 3x build, it'd be over 2, under 1, and to the rim.
05:52.51yukonbobso they "brace" against ea. other
05:53.00brlcadthere's a ever so slight bend that is basically the sine angle
05:53.25brlcadsure, they touch, have a tension against them
05:53.40brlcadbut there is a find bend there too
05:54.03brlcadabout half the radius.. so it'sbarely imperceptible for such a tiny wire
05:54.31yukonbobright --- so pipe would be suitable better primitive?
05:55.13brlcadprobably, though it's still going to be tricky if you want to get the math really accurate, you're going to have to pull out some trig, compute some angles
05:55.25yukonbobor would there be some other "fudge" method, or ignore it?  (I guess it'd really depend on the intended use, but I'm being academic to try to learn here ;)
05:55.34brlcadpipe are described as sequences of straight sections and bends
05:55.54brlcadyou could ignore it, depends what purpose you're modeling for
05:56.34yukonbobright -- if it's just a pretty picture, what I've got will do... but I'm not averse to learning skills, esp. if it's more "correct" and might serve me in the future...
05:57.22brlcadif I were modeling it, I'd probably pick a pipe, model half the distance to the "touch point" as a straight section, then a big bend that has a bend radius just half the thickness radius that takes it past the point of intersection
05:57.45brlcaddo that for all of the spokes and you should end up with spokes that perfectly touch tangent in the middle of that bend
05:58.51yukonbobright on ... I'll give it a go :)
05:58.54brlcadpipes are really tricky to grasp at first, but probably one of brl-cad's most powerful primitives (and generally better than most commercial cad system piping tools)
05:59.19yukonbobwell, I know where to come when I have issues...
05:59.31brlcadheh
05:59.35yukonbobwhen I'm done, I'll render a picture for the new website.
05:59.47yukonbobwe need a user gallery
05:59.57brlcadit's already stbbed out
06:00.12brlcadi.e., planned :)
06:00.29brlcadpart of the new site that's coming together bit by bit
06:00.32yukonbobnice
06:01.18yukonbobhey, have you already seen "Spirited Away" and "Princess Mononoke"?
06:01.29brlcadi've seen spirited away
06:01.37brlcaddon't recal if i've seen pm
06:01.47yukonbobyou might like like PM, then
06:02.03brlcadtend to like them kinda dark and techy though
06:02.12yukonbobah...
06:02.14brlcadGITM was my cup of tea
06:02.49brlcadi've *still* not seen it yet
06:02.57yukonbobawesome animation
06:03.08yukonbobhave you seen Vampire Hunter D?
06:03.26brlcadyeah, I drooled over all the previous I saw .. and they were at the siggraph electronic theater last year iirc
06:03.34brlcadnope
06:04.40yukonbobthere's stuff that looks photo-realistic, but animated or processed, so it's kind of tough to tell _what_ it is, but it's a great effect...
06:06.12brlcadfor vampire?
06:06.44yukonbobboth -- they have the same thing... in Vampire, it's especially noticeable in a subway scene... and in GITS, in a corner store
06:07.48*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:10.55brlcadheh
06:11.13brlcadthey're in there because the alternative (which is what we had) was too much of a support burden
06:11.39brlcada vast majority seemingly no nothing about EDITOR
06:11.44yukonbob<PROTECTED>
06:11.51brlcadi know, but it's true
06:11.56brlcadi'd rather not set anything
06:12.14brlcadbut then I invariably end up answering that exact question about once a month
06:12.38yukonbobwe need an FAQ section that's maintained in the site too.
06:12.44brlcadi'm a bit of a cheerleader for things "just working" by default, so if that's what it takes, so be it :)
06:12.46yukonbobMinuteElectron ^^^
06:13.38yukonbobI'll be the advocate for "Good Form" then, and take you to task where warranted :)
06:13.48yukonbobanyway -- happy coding, chat soon brlcad  :)
06:19.47brlcad:) cya
07:06.30MinuteElectronyes?
07:06.38MinuteElectronI wasn't here, I will read.
07:06.46MinuteElectronOh, FAQ
07:07.42MinuteElectronIt can go in the Documentation section.
07:07.45MinuteElectronOr support.
07:07.49MinuteElectron*shrug&
07:08.13MinuteElectronbrlcad: Yeah transparency pngs.
07:08.16MinuteElectronTHey suck.
07:08.33MinuteElectronI have to work out how to fix it, there is some javascript hacks.
07:08.40MinuteElectronBut not sure where to get them from.
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07:40.49MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you busy, it would be nice to discuss colors.
07:41.31yukonbobciao MinuteElectron :)
07:41.36MinuteElectronnight
07:50.24MinuteElectronThis si why I gave up with pngfix last time - it doesn't work.
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13:11.35*** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart)
13:31.17kwizarthello!  I have a tk85 missdetection at configure whereas running the conf.c return 0 from my system...
13:31.36kwizartat configure, it show:
13:31.36kwizartchecking for Tk library functionality... no
13:32.04kwizartconfig.log returns: Tk_Init returned error
13:32.23kwizartwhereas using http://pastebin.ca/675727
13:33.05kwizartfrom a terminal with gcc gcc -I/usr/include -ltcl8.5 -ltk8.5 test.c
13:33.12kwizart./a.out
13:33.19kwizartecho $?
13:33.24kwizartthis return 0 !
13:51.09brlcadkwizart: that test should now be changed/fixed in CVS head
13:51.32brlcadbasically, Tk_Init is failing because it cannot attach to the X11 server
13:52.16kwizartnice i will have a look, (might be configure.ac right ?)
13:52.16brlcadprobably because of DISPLAY being set or unset, usually -- so you can either manually disable the test, or use the latest sources and see if that fixes the problem for you
13:52.30brlcadthe test is defined in configure.ac
13:53.39brlcadsearch on "Tk_Init returned error" to disable it (just have it return 0) or you can update the test to the same one on head which doesn't require display to be set
13:53.47brlcador set your display before running configure :)
13:56.39kwizartbrlcad, yes it is building with return 0 ..
14:01.39kwizartnice! i'm at the install step ! there will be a fedora build !
14:01.44brlcad:)
14:01.48kwizartprobably !
14:01.55brlcadif you make an RPM, send it my way and I'll post it up ;)
14:03.02kwizartnice! but fow now i need to figure out how to have tcl85/tk85 build staticaly unless you can add also tcl85 and tk85 shared...
14:06.18kwizartarf, there is rpaths...
14:06.54kwizartERROR   0002: file '/usr/bin/isst_slave' contains an invalid rpath '/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtienet/.libs' in [/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtienet/.libs:/home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/adrt/libtie/.libs]
14:07.12kwizarti can need to disable them...
14:22.24brlcadeep, yeah, disable adrt
14:22.28brlcad--disable-adrt
14:23.04brlcadyou can get tcl/tk to build static by adding --disable-shared to their configure args (near the end of configure.ac)
14:23.28brlcadlook for ac_configure_args
14:23.40brlcadthough I'd question why you want them static
14:27.29kwizarttcl85 and tk85 are not into fedora yet... so i'm using tcl85-devel from another repository...
14:27.54kwizartusing static version will make them more portable as i expect...
14:28.51kwizartor i can submit tcl85/tk85 to fedora so they can be ship within (in parallele with tcl/tk 8.4)
14:38.31brlcadyeah, final isn't out yet so they'd probably not be too interested just yet
15:04.38*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
15:13.39*** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ
15:16.42brlcadminute: I believe I fixed the footer alignment issue, it now wraps cleanly and keeps the search up top
15:17.14brlcadhad to put the search box after the quote so it could float right
15:17.58poolioWebsite is cool, but there's something about the tan/cyan color scheme that doesn't look quite right
15:48.40``Erik<PROTECTED>
15:51.49``Erikvim might be in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /opt/local/bin, /opt/bin, /sw/bin, ... gonna search all the various possible paths? (same with emacs)... better to have a faq entry imho :)
16:07.09kwizarti have this error when i have --disable-shared and --enable-static (whereas the contrary seems to work)
16:07.09kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/675881
16:21.26kwizartwell no, using mock chrooted buildsys it fails with:
16:21.26kwizart*** buffer overflow detected ***: /builddir/build/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/bwish/.libs/lt-btclsh terminated
16:22.08kwizartwhereas it seems to work using rpmbuild...on non-chrooted system...
16:22.20kwizartmaybe some missing BuildRequires or alse...
16:22.21kwizartelse
16:32.26CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: dbconcat hangs on empty tree nodes
16:43.50*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p548749A7.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:53.29*** join/#brlcad FireBird2003 (n=FireBird@p549CCBA3.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:53.33FireBird2003hi
16:53.42kwizartthe problem i have seems related to #   --datadir=%{_datadir}/%{name} \
16:53.59kwizart(backtrace)
16:54.34kwizarttesting...
16:55.38FireBird2003I try to compile the newest src-tarball and got an error in dm_xvars.h saying that a specifier-qualifier list is expected in line 55 XVisualinfo *
16:56.57FireBird2003Im using Ubuntu 7.04
17:00.28FireBird2003any ideas?
17:02.04``Erikbroken X? do you have all the X developer packages installed?
17:02.50FireBird2003hm, I marked the #ifdef out and got this file compiled
17:03.03FireBird2003so, it might be the config?
17:03.27``Eriklook in, um, include/brlcad_config.h for HAVE_X11_XLIB_H
17:03.36``Erikshould be defined to '1'
17:03.40FireBird2003ok
17:04.00``Erikif it's #undef, then you either don't have the X headers or the config script is broken
17:05.14FireBird20032nd
17:05.20FireBird2003I have the header
17:05.48``ErikXlib.h ?
17:05.55``Erikor just X.h ?
17:06.33FireBird2003Xlib.h
17:07.18``Erikhum, when you ran ./configure, did the end report "X11 support ....: yes" ?
17:07.31FireBird2003I'll try again
17:07.53``Erikyou can look in config.log
17:08.52FireBird2003too late...
17:09.26FireBird2003X11 support is yes
17:09.32``Erik<-- likes to do "./configure --enable-optimized 2>&1 | tee configure.out" to refer back to those
17:09.54``Erikok, check your include/brlcad_config.h file again? HAVE_X11_XLIB_H is still
17:09.55``Erik...
17:10.32*** join/#brlcad FireBird2003 (n=FireBird@p549CCBA3.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:10.47FireBird2003sry, accidently closed xchar
17:10.50FireBird2003-r+t
17:11.33``Erikheh
17:11.43FireBird2003the config-script is broken
17:11.57``Erikis HAVE_X11_XLIB_H still an #undef in include/brlcad_config.h ?
17:12.02FireBird2003it says X11 to yes
17:12.04FireBird2003yes
17:12.24FireBird2003i changed it to a #define
17:12.35FireBird2003and started compiling again
17:12.46``Erikwhere is your Xlib.h ?
17:12.56FireBird2003/usr/include/X11
17:13.10``Erikhuh, that's an odd place to put X headers
17:13.24FireBird2003this is the Ubuntu way
17:13.28FireBird2003why odd?
17:14.02FireBird2003ahh, normaly should be /usr/X11/include, isn't it?
17:14.21``Erik/usr/X11R6/include/X11
17:14.42FireBird2003ok
17:14.53``Erikif you do ./configure --with-x-includes=/usr/include/X11 it should 'just work'
17:15.49FireBird2003i will first try it with my changed config
17:16.14FireBird2003I'll try that later, ok?
17:16.20``Erikaight
17:16.25``Erik*shrug* up to you :)
17:16.26FireBird2003I don't want to restart compilation again
17:18.59FireBird2003hmm, some odd warnings in the compilation process, I wonder what a lint would say to them ;)
17:20.12``Erikif it's in src/other/ we don't care *shrug* splint is brutal... and we have some other tools that report slews we need to fix :/
17:21.18FireBird2003ok, it was just a joke
17:22.17``Erikwell, it's legitimate *shrug* and 'flawfinder' has been run on an older version... http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1460888&group_id=105292&atid=640803
17:22.58``Erik(dwheeler, huh, same guy who does sloccount... neat)
18:09.17FireBird2003ok, the headers were found by configure, now
18:09.59FireBird2003trying to compile,,,
18:13.33FireBird2003urgs
18:14.22FireBird2003undefined reference to XFreeDevicesList in libdm.so
18:16.42FireBird2003seems again like a wrong X Configuration
18:20.36FireBird2003in /src/bwish
18:21.47minutebrlcad: Hi, cool. Sorry about the lag, I was shopping. Can't see your changes because all my connections to the my.brlcad.org server are timing out.
18:21.59brlcadnp
18:22.30minuteSame problem as yesterday, must be an ISP problem or something.
18:23.07minuteI'll just go fit a few screws into my PC...
18:24.07brlcadminute: try, http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/ss.png
18:25.11minuteAlso times out.
18:25.37brlcadhttp://66.111.56.50/~sean/tmp/ss.png  ?
18:26.37minutetimes out
18:29.38minutedw about it
18:29.46minuteit will clear up eventually like yesterday
18:45.11CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (9 files in 2 dirs): various minor fixes from "flawfinder" and compiler warnings
19:17.11FireBird2003giving up the try to compile the sources...
19:18.16brlcadFireBird2003: what's the problem?
19:18.28brlcadCIA-21: wake up
19:18.32FireBird2003undefined reference to XFreeDevicesList
19:18.47FireBird2003iin libdm.so
19:19.24FireBird2003I don't know what library is missing
19:19.44brlcadrun this: nm  -o /usr/X11R6/lib/lib*.a | grep -i XFreeDevicesList
19:20.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: added missing header for fbsd. changed chmod() to fchmod() (flawfinder).
19:21.01CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: ADRT libtie bug fixes and performance enhancements
19:21.05CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/backtrace.c: fixed signed/unsigned comparison
19:21.07CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: typos.
19:21.21CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: minor casting and default value (-Wall)
19:21.32CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: change fprintf to fputs/fputc to further reduce allocation possibilities
19:22.38FireBird2003found it in /usr/lib
19:22.55FireBird2003in libXi.a
19:23.30brlcadthere ya go, -lXi
19:23.39brlcadmake LIBS="-lXi"
19:23.53brlcadin whatever dir is failing
19:24.10FireBird2003trying
19:25.38FireBird2003seems to compile now...
19:26.45FireBird2003I hope, that it will reach an end then
19:29.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/table.c: trimmed down oversized string
19:38.57minuteThis is just silly.
19:39.06minuteMy SSH connections are just being picked off one by one.
19:39.29brlcadcould be intentional
19:39.38brlcadmaybe they don't want you on ssh :)
19:39.41minuteFirst my connection to my.brlcad.org dies - then I loose excalibur.rudyvalencia.net - now I am using idkb.eu
19:40.06minutebrlcad: they? :D
19:40.14brlcadthey.
19:40.19brlcadas in .. the people out to get you
19:40.24``Erikread the irregular striped bucket.
19:40.26minutehehe
19:40.42``Eriker, striped irregular bucket, rather
19:40.56CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: try not to bu_malloc() 0 bytes. Caused the lighting model to bomb...
19:41.12``Erikhttp://bofh.ntk.net/Bastard_Indexes.html
19:41.38brlcadis that the cache bug?
19:41.39minuteBut odly I can still use Minefield to visit the excalibur web page, but not the my.brlcad.org one.
19:41.43minuteIt is so tedious sshing using ssh.
19:41.59``ErikI dunno, it was causing failures without a cache...
19:42.13``ErikI'm guessing when it was written, bu_malloc() did NOT bomb when given 0 bytes...
19:43.40brlcadmaybe
19:43.59brlcadwas added a couple years ago since code really shouldn't ever be doing that
19:48.47FireBird2003finally, it compiled
19:48.55FireBird2003thx, guys
19:51.29``Erikand with only half the ritual needed for a linux kernel compile? :D
19:52.25brlcadFireBird2003: np, glad it worked out
19:53.10FireBird2003I had shorter kernel compile affords ;)
19:54.13minuteI can't stand how slow this is. Me is going to reinstall windows while I wait and see if the problem resolves.
19:54.16``Erikonce familiar, sure :) (personally, I'm kinda groovin' to fbsd kernel and system stuff.... "cd /usr/src ; make buildworld kernel world && reboot")
19:54.46brlcadminute: ahh, maybe you're part of a fun botnet
19:54.54brlcadcompromised host et al
19:55.07brlcadneed some tcpdump goodness to see what's going on
19:55.56``Eriknever peer into a tcpdump without protection, it'll consume your soul O.o
19:58.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik fixed a photon-mapping lighting model crash where it was trying to allocate zero bytes (which cases an intentional bomb)
19:59.24CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (Makefile.am adrt/Makefile.am): since it's now integrated with the big M, always compile adrt's libtie regardless of adrt being disabled/enabled because of python/sdl (since libtie is generic).
20:04.19*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=yesxpqug@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-1709fefe02c01fa3)
20:15.05*** join/#brlcad MinuteEl1ctron (n=Anonymou@cpc4-flit1-0-0-cust283.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
20:53.21*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-107-181.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:14.14minutebrlcad: My computer is directctly protected from the internet by a router.
21:14.38minuteI am not afraid, although the house administrator with his direct connection should be.
21:14.41minute(I am on wi-fi).
21:20.50kwizartok so Fedora's %configure macro set datadir in %{_datadir} which is what it should use, but if it is set to /usr/local/share/brlcad/ whihc seems the default , I have a backtrace at build step...
21:20.58kwizartalso version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5a5, need 8.5a6-8.5a7
21:21.16kwizartdoes 7.10.2 need tcl 8.5a6 or sooner ?
21:21.26kwizarti only have 8.5a5
21:21.46``Erikit should be ok with 8.5a5
21:21.58``Erik8.4 won't work, though
21:25.39kwizartso i expect the tcl package i use export LD_PATH_TCL badly...
21:26.01kwizartthen when it try to compile tcl script it fails to find the system tcl...
21:26.50kwizartso this answear why it may work with rpmbuild and not with the chrooter buildsys
21:26.55kwizartchrooted
21:30.38``Erikhuh?
21:31.08``Erik<-- has never had to use LD_PATH_TCL O.o
21:31.59``ErikI do have to pass some variables to get it to grab the system tcl on the boxen I care about (mostly fbsd), like CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include/tcl8.5 and LDFLAGS=-L/usr/local/lib
21:34.21brlcadthere is no a7 yet
21:35.11kwizart``Erik, so you don't need some tclConfig.sh ?
21:39.44*** join/#brlcad Apathy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
21:45.41``Erikshouldn't need it, kwiz, the script looks for the headers and libraries and assumes the location of the .tcl files I think...
21:46.33``Erik(I assume brlcad will correct me if I'm wrong... )
21:47.01``Erikbrlcad: libtie proper is still not upgraded?
21:47.04``Erikin the repo?
21:52.08kwizarthere is the "warning" i have at %install step:
21:52.09kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/676252
21:52.50kwizartthat make me think while installing tclscript it search in brlcad contrib paths instead of system path...
21:54.28``Erikwhy do you have dyld stuff?
21:54.39``Erikor is that in the makefiles? heh
21:55.37kwizartactually i have /usr/share/tcl8.5/init.tcl which is not found at %install step...
21:56.14kwizartinstead it search for /home/builder/rpmbuild/BUILD/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl
21:56.27``Erikthat's a funny place
21:56.29kwizartwhich is wrong since i would prefer to use system tcl
21:56.32``Erikit should be in /usr/lib/tcl8.5/
21:56.53kwizartyes but it is arch independant ?!
21:57.22``Erikyes... but we kinda work off the defaults
21:57.26``Erikand what, y'know, most os's use
21:57.34``Erikubuntu seems to be all kinds of weird :)
21:58.11``Erikthere MIGHT be a variable to fix it, but I don't know it off the top of my head
21:58.35``Erikand I just started my nice long weekend, so I'm not terribly apt to dig it up :D sharpen up a stick and poke brlcad with it
22:01.26kwizartwell for knwo i will tweak tclscript to use system by default...
22:02.49kwizartsrc/tclscripts/Makefile.am shows TCL_LIBRARY=$(top_srcdir)/src/other/tcl/library \
22:03.05*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
22:04.39kwizartCan't find a usable init.tcl in the following directories:
22:04.39kwizart<PROTECTED>
22:04.51kwizartonly the internal one is listed here ?!
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22:15.17CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: protect the vararg func decl
22:33.41minuteThis sucks.
22:33.59minuteI am gonna get onto the ISP if this isn't resolved by the morning.
22:34.19minuteRouthing throgh excalibur.rudyvalencia.com was slow, but routing through silentflame is even slower.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070831

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070831

04:17.29*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
04:54.54*** join/#brlcad brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
04:54.54*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host217-35-76-52.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
04:54.54*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
04:54.54*** mode/#brlcad [+oo brlcad ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
05:08.12brlcad``Erik: no, it's upgraded -- CIA-21 is being a bitch
05:08.26brlcadnot reporting a slew of commites you'd made and I'd made
05:25.13*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177726774.dsl.bell.ca)
05:26.18IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc.png :)
07:04.36yukonbobbrlcad: you in?
07:05.32yukonbob~lart brlcad
07:05.32ibotpours gasoline all over brlcad, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
07:06.03yukonbobthere should definately be a less violent library for lart
07:14.30*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:18.57minuteI tell you, if this problem isn't fixed by the time the house administrator gets up someone at the ISP won't know what's hit them. :D
08:19.08minuteSeriously though, this is irritating.
08:20.17minuteNot least because I have to ssh through a different server to get to this one, increasing lag, but I can't actually do any work because I can't see the website.
08:20.41minutebrlcad: It is definitely a problem with CIA-21: I got the commits listed in ##MinuteElectron.
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11:42.23MinuteElectronbrlcad: Is the uptime value accurate?
13:32.02brlcadyep
13:32.27brlcadthough unfortunately going to loose it here in a few days to an upgrade
13:32.49brlcadOn Wednesday, 9/12/2007 11:00PM EST (-4UTC), the ISP for the server will begin performing maintenance on the rack where the server is located.  The server will be down for a time period of 5 minutes or less between 11PM and 1AM. The maintenance will be to perform a power upgrade for the server.
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18:56.55MinuteElectronbrlcad: You mean, you don't have it at your house
19:02.29brlcadheh, no
19:03.01brlcadit's a dedicated host server in a nice environmentally controlled facility on a high-bandwidth line down in florida
19:04.39MinuteElectronCool, I think.
19:06.38MinuteElectronI have to go in a few minutes, travelling somewhere so I mgiht find a computer that can actually access your server.
19:20.25*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
19:22.34PrezKennedybrlcad, where is bz located?
19:22.40PrezKennedywhos the host?
19:57.36*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
20:02.56CIA-21libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r237 10/trunk/libirc/examples/ (2 files in 2 dirs): don't join BZFlag, or opencombat for the samples, send em all to ether #libIRC, or #botpark
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21:53.24yukonbobbrlcad: got a minute to test something on 7.10.x?
21:53.35yukonbob<PROTECTED>
22:37.42yukonbob.
22:59.11brlcadwhat kind of strange behavior?
23:09.50Twingydon't you have brl-cad running on your iphone yet?
23:17.47brlcadheh
23:18.23Twingytsk
23:18.30TwingyI bet it compiles faster than the origin 200
23:37.16``Erikbrlcad: is the facility downage a good opportunity to conduct an OS upgrade?
23:39.10brlcadit probably does
23:39.50brlcad``Erik: i thought about that, though it's not going to be an easy upgrade
23:40.22brlcadi'd really like to mirror everything offsite "just in case" so that dns could be updated if anything went wrong
23:40.56brlcadand I don't see that happening by then (and there's no alternative that will retain the "5 min downtime" that they're estimating
23:41.19brlcadwhich is basically, reboot, plug in the remote reboot switch (that sits in front of the power), and boot up again
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070901

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070901

00:29.54yukonbobbrlcad: re: strange 'pipe' behaviour -- I've got two pipes... (one for size reference, one I want to use)... "tt" == reference, tt2 == useful piece. tt2 is ~3mm longer than tt, but when I:
00:30.09yukonbobsed tt2; rot 0 -10 0
00:31.45*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
00:32.06yukonbobtt2 measurements go haywire -- gets long, seem to be artifacts from original (proper) size, though.. and seems to stay that way... though  'l tt2' returns reasonable numbers...
00:32.25yukonbobwhere "gets long" == wireframe view in fb
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02:22.51*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-168-113-63.dyn.iinet.net.au)
03:41.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
03:41.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: fixed various operability issues reported by flawfinder, predominantly related
03:41.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: to quelling flawfinder warnings though some of the issues reported under
03:41.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: specific input conditions could trigger bad application behavior including
03:41.30CIA-21BRL-CAD: crashes, other instabilities, or outright potential security concerns.
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11:21.02MinuteElectronHmm, brlcad is no longer here.
11:21.21*** mode/#brlcad [+o MinuteElectron] by ChanServ
11:23.44MinuteElectronok..
11:23.55MinuteElectronlol, 100% packet loss.
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12:23.01``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA
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12:56.27MinuteElectron``Erik: work safe?
15:35.16tofuyeah, it's safe though kinda silly .. code monkey videorama done in warcraft
16:10.27MinuteElectronOh, ok.
16:11.29MinuteElectronHey brlcad, noticed you tried out a few color changes.
16:13.14MinuteElectronI like the tone of green you put in the footer, but not so sure how well it suits the tan border.
16:13.38MinuteElectronAlthough it does seem to finalise the page in a way due to the similarity between the header and the footer.
16:15.13MinuteElectronThe rewording is good, so is the change in font size between the copyright notice and the quotes.
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19:27.39yukonbobhello, cadders
19:28.11MinuteElectronhi
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19:57.40yukonbobminute: are you running brlcad, or just working on the site?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070902

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070902

00:51.01*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
02:38.46thing0morning yall
02:44.31yukonbobhey brlcad
02:44.38yukonbob2 questions when you have some time.
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06:06.43yukonbob.
06:06.51louipc<PROTECTED>
06:06.57louipcooh
06:07.13Laniakealouipc: you surf?
06:07.29Laniakealouipc: do you have Mr. Zog's Seks Waks?
06:08.10louipci have Firefox :D
06:08.19Laniakeaoh
06:08.33Laniakeabut even this type of surfing can bring you a sixpack
06:08.52louipchahah
09:27.28minuteyukonbob: Just working on the website.
09:28.41MinuteElectronbrlcad: Did you get my messages?
10:18.41MinuteElectronbrlcad: If it is alright with you can we start populating Drupal and the Wiki with content (once I port the skin). We have reached the point where imporvements will be made as we go along and are needed (for example when you decide about a poll question a poll can easily be added).
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18:08.33yukonbob.
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18:42.15louipc.
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18:55.01yukonboblouipc: what version of brlcad are you running?
18:55.18louipc7.10.2
18:56.04yukonbob*test on 7.8.4
18:56.19louipchah I just noticed something funny.. there's a video game called enigma and there's a program in BRL-CAD called enigma :/
18:59.58brlcadit's a 3rd party tool, a public domain replacement/implementation for/of 'crypt'
19:00.14brlcadand something we can throw away on a dime if we had to
19:01.24brlcadMinuteElectron: yes, I read your comments -- thanks
19:02.09louipcyep I looked into it a bit
19:02.11brlcadand I agree that the there's not a good distinction between the tan bar and the pale green footer, but as you noted -- it's at least "consistent" working well with the header
19:02.52brlcadprobably just needs a hairline separation, or the tan bar can be changed later to something easier to work with or the green too
19:03.38*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
19:05.09brlcadas for an initial poll question, I have several ideas myself -- but I'd be interested in hearing ideas from others first (feel free to speak up!) :)
19:05.50poolioallo brlcad
19:05.55brlcadhowdy poolio
19:06.06brlcadhow was the first week?
19:06.14brlcadyukonbob: excellent :)
19:06.24yukonbobbrlcad, heh ;)
19:06.28pooliopretty boring. classes are going to be rough though. my laptop is on the fritz :\
19:07.14yukonbobbrlcad: while I've got you online, is there a 'time' component to shooting rays? Ie: can one determine how long to reach a target, and reflect back?
19:07.23pooliodidn't get the programming class ... so I'm not doing any coding for 4 months :o
19:07.50louipcthat sucks
19:08.03poolioYou can determine the distance....and you can get the time based on the speed you want your ray to be using simple mathematics
19:08.17poolioyeah...vga card is bad or the memory controller is fscked.
19:08.19brlcadyukonbob: not inherintly, time would be a parameter in the application's domain
19:08.31yukonbobok... that's what I was curious about...
19:08.35brlcadso while you can certainly track it based off of the distances, the library doesn't know about time
19:08.51poolioIs the speed of light defined anywhere in brl-cad?
19:08.54brlcadthere have been several apps that take time into account
19:10.59brlcadpoolio: not really, none of the tools in brl-cad take time as a unit into account other than for basic unit conversion (and then it's only wrt a "lightyear" distance)
19:11.39brlcadmost ray-tracers assume you're simulating instant propagation
19:11.42poolioAh ok. I might have to write some code to aid me in physics to scratch my coding itch.
19:12.14brlcad:)
19:12.50brlcadmost of my most interesting code was actually done outside of class
19:14.42brlcadeven with the coding classes, there's often too little time to actually sort through "real" issues as you're focused on whatever the goal of the homework assignment was (which is usually just a specific task and not "production-quality" are rarely ever practical code)
19:15.39*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-102-185.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:19.25MinuteElectronbrlcad: Got your messages.
19:19.31MinuteElectronCan't deal with it now.
19:19.40brlcaddeal with what?
19:19.44MinuteElectronI still am unable to access your site and connecting through someone elses server is tedious.
19:20.00brlcadsorry to hear about that.. figure out the cause?
19:20.06brlcadanything I can do to help? :)
19:20.11MinuteElectronbrlcad: Polls, hairline border, MediaWiki porting.
19:20.40brlcadI'm working on the hairline, don't worry about it
19:20.49brlcadeven without it, it's probably "good enough" for now
19:20.57brlcadthe site is still way better than the current
19:21.04brlcadway better :)
19:21.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: It is a very odd problem, all my other friends who use Virgin media can access the site, and so can every other machine. All the other machines in my house have a same problem.
19:21.16MinuteElectronThanks :D
19:21.26brlcadpm me your IP
19:21.34MinuteElectronThe response time is about half a second with occasional pauses.
19:22.03brlcadI can try a traceroute to see if there's anything unusual with the route
19:23.45MinuteElectronFor me it times out at sagonet.net if that means anything to you.
19:23.56brlcadaack
19:23.58brlcadfound the problem
19:24.03MinuteElectronWell, it hops to there then can't reach any further.
19:24.04brlcadthis time it's something else
19:24.12brlcadgimmie a sec
19:24.19MinuteElectronK.
19:25.47brlcadtry it now
19:27.04brlcadapparently after the problem started, or perhaps even as a result of it, there were a lot of invalid ssh connection attempts
19:27.26MinuteElectronIt seams to work.
19:27.35MinuteElectronAfter the problem?
19:27.48brlcadthe server watches most connection activity and if anything is excessively abnormal, it blocks connetivity -- it detected a problem from your ip and blocked (more than a dozen invalid connections)
19:27.57brlcadon the 30th
19:28.03brlcadso three days ago
19:28.04MinuteElectronOh, ok.
19:28.32MinuteElectronIs it 30 in total ever or 30 in total over a set period pof time.
19:28.37MinuteElectronbrb
19:29.07MinuteElectronback
19:29.07brlcadpart of an intrusion detection setup, the server gets hit with a couple dozen attacks per day that are automatically taken care of usually within a minute of the attack
19:29.43brlcadit happened on Aug 30 that the block went into effect
19:29.55MinuteElectronWell, you see. I am a sloppy typer and I think I must have made about 30 bad password entries in my time with access to the server.
19:30.11brlcadnah, bad passwords are detected different
19:30.18MinuteElectronOh, ok.
19:30.18brlcadthere is a limit on those, but that's not what you hit
19:30.36MinuteElectronSo, my IP attacked your server?
19:30.37brlcad"invalid" ssh connections, as reported by ssh
19:30.52MinuteElectronHmm, how odd.
19:30.59brlcadall within a short time period of about a day or two
19:31.04MinuteElectronSorry for causing so much trouble if it was my fault.
19:31.09brlcadnah, it's no biggie
19:31.31brlcadthis was obviously a false positive, and those are always bad -- and the server's fault imho
19:31.45brlcadthough could have been provoked by the connection problems you were having before
19:32.03brlcadbecause when you first started having problems, and you gave me your ip, I checked.. and you weren't on the list
19:32.24brlcadso maybe the connection problems through your ISP caused the bad ssh connections, hard to say
19:32.46MinuteElectronThat would make sense, if I were unable to access the server for a few hours and periodiclly checked it could cause messed my connections which then triggered the firewall.
19:33.44brlcadyeah, something like that could trigger it
19:34.40brlcadone of the most common ssh attacks is ones looking for vulnerable sshd's where the client connects about a dozen times, all 'invalid' where the client sends bogus data to the sshd testing whether it's vunlerable
19:35.15brlcadthat's obviously not what was going on in your case, but connection-wise, it looks the same
19:35.22MinuteElectronI see.
19:35.49MinuteElectronDoes there happen to be a directory I could use to store data in, I need a directory to stick my skin and its stuff in?
19:36.03MinuteElectronSo I can symlink it to MediaWiki and Drupal.
19:36.09brlcadskin?
19:36.15MinuteElectronthe brlcad design.
19:36.27MinuteElectronThe thing I have been working on for several months.
19:36.33brlcadit's currently in d/themes/brlcad no?
19:36.46MinuteElectronYeah.
19:36.58MinuteElectronSo I can symlink w/skins/brlcad to that directory?
19:37.19brlcadsure, or symlink them both to someplace else if you like
19:37.30MinuteElectronThat would be cleaner.
19:37.42brlcadanywhere in the my.brlcad.org that you think works well organizationally
19:37.55brlcadif it's going to be shared, probably deserves to be at the same level as d and w
19:38.00MinuteElectronI am very warey about upgrading Drupal because I have never used it before so am worried about erasing the skin.
19:38.03MinuteElectronOk, cool.
19:42.38brlcadsorry for taking so long to check your ip again, that was bad diligence on my part
19:43.01brlcadgood news now, though, is that you're on a whitelist so you shouldn't get blocked again if it the same thing happens
19:43.15brlcador even if something different happens
19:47.29MinuteElectronThanks :D
19:49.29MinuteElectronHmm, how odd. I can't chown my own files to www and vice versa.
20:00.42pooliotry sudo?
20:05.53MinuteElectronI can't.
20:05.56MinuteElectronI am not sudo.
20:10.44MinuteElectronIt kind-of makes sense.
20:11.09MinuteElectronIf you sudo as a user then you technically are that user and not your old user.
20:11.30MinuteElectronSo you don't have the permissions of both users, just the one you are sudoing as.
20:11.41MinuteElectronBut it would be nice for it not to be that way.
20:20.13MinuteElectronbrlcad: Got some news that I can put on the site?
20:23.13louipccool the site is skinnable?
20:24.18MinuteElectronYeah...
20:30.19brlcadMinuteElectron: you should be able to sudo chown -u www
20:30.28MinuteElectronI sould? Cool.
20:30.35MinuteElectronDoes that work both ways?
20:30.48brlcadas www chown back to you?
20:31.07brlcadonce it's www, you sudo -u www
20:31.24brlcadfyi, i'm tweaking the footer
20:31.26MinuteElectronok
20:31.30MinuteElectroncool
20:31.35brlcadso poking on page.tpl and the style
20:31.46MinuteElectronok, I won't mess about with it yet,
20:41.10brlcadstupid botnets
20:43.29yukonbobin tt pipe 4 0 0 0 17 20 10 20 0 0 19 20 10 560 0 0 19 20 10 580 0 0 17 20 10
20:43.48yukonbobin tt2 pipe 4 0 0 0 17 20 10 20 0 0 19 20 10 563.566 0 0 19 20 10 583.566 0 0 17 20 10
20:44.07yukonbobsed tt2
20:44.14yukonbobrot  0 -10 0
20:44.35yukonbob*these should endup w/ the "left" edge at same x
20:44.38yukonbob(580)
20:45.09yukonbobon 7.8.4, the rot explodes tt2 to a huge length, though.
20:48.41yukonbob?is it the floating point measurement
20:54.08yukonbob("left" at 'ae 90 0')
20:54.10yukonbob:P
21:05.56yukonbob?can anybody else confirm the buggy behaviour
21:07.49louipcwhat's the error?
21:14.20yukonboblouipc: did you build the pipes and do the rotation?
21:16.18louipchttp://louipc.dontexist.org/2007-09-02-171442_1280x1024_scrot.png
21:16.54yukonbob1 sec
21:17.19louipcI don't know what it should look like or anything hah
21:24.44yukonbobwww.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.pdf
21:24.58yukonbob:P -- xwd wouldn't grab screen for some reason...
21:25.52louipcoh wow
21:26.01louipcso try the latest version maybe? :D
21:28.34yukonbobwww.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.png (same thing, but actual screen grab)
21:29.15yukonboblouipc: ya -- re: latest, I'm _still_ trying to get tcl 8.5 to build like I want, and, that version of tcl is still in beta form...
21:29.43yukonbobI've got lots of other tcl-dependant software I need to keep running ;)
21:29.57louipcthe brlcad bundled one won't work?
21:30.03louipchm
21:31.00louipcI've actually had two Tcls installed before hehe
21:31.44yukonboblouipc: I'm sure it's possible... I'm just trying to build w/i package framework, and possibly with libs, etc. completely seperate... I've not got that figured out yet...
21:32.15yukonbobthere's still a bug in 7.8.4, though :)
21:32.32louipcyeah I was kind of trying that but there's other things I need to fix too :/
21:34.24yukonbobhrmm... if I: rot 0 -20 0; rot 0 10 0 -- it "works".
21:35.05yukonboband in my screenshot, one can see how it "knows" where the endpoints should be...
21:37.46yukonbobexiting/reopening with a "bad" element yields same result (ie: element is still "bad")
21:37.55yukonbob*exiting/reopening db
21:43.13MinuteElectronbrlcad: Difficculties?
21:59.03brlcaddrupal has a voting module built-in
22:00.07MinuteElectronIt does, well that is kind-of the problem.
22:00.34MinuteElectronThe poll wouldn't be able to go on MediaWiki if it is Drupal integrated. If you don't mind that then we can use the module.
22:05.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
22:05.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: Added basic tab expansion by adding a binding for tab. Does not use readline
22:05.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: library (would require massive rewrite of ged.c and text.tcl). This may be
22:05.35CIA-21BRL-CAD: enough to satisfy the feature request for tab expansion.
22:09.56MinuteElectronDrupal has such a steep learning curve.
22:24.57brlcadi don't think the poll needs to expose over to the wiki
22:25.18brlcadi see the wiki being used as the primary documentation, knowledgebase center
22:25.46brlcadwouldn't want most of the dynamic site content on the wiki so that the pages can be readily printed if needed
22:27.01MinuteElectronok
23:00.13brlcadwhew
23:00.35brlcadthe more I use it, the more I dislike css :)
23:00.40MinuteElectronyeah
23:00.43MinuteElectronit sucks
23:00.47MinuteElectronnice work
23:00.51brlcadthe footer should have that hilight now
23:00.54brlcadsee how it looks
23:01.23MinuteElectronVeyr nice, just the border around the image now.
23:01.27poolioIf I say "eww" are you going to slap me?
23:01.55brlcaddepends :)
23:02.13brlcadeww as in doesn't work or you just don't like the overall look
23:02.32brlcaddon't care if you don't like the overall/color/layout :)
23:02.42brlcadit's better than what's up now, a lot better, and that's the point for now
23:02.58brlcadif it eww because it doesn't render correctly, then I'd care :)
23:03.08pooliowell, it doesn't render correctly
23:03.23MinuteElectronCan you do a screeshot?
23:03.27pooliootw
23:03.42brlcadworked fine in firefox/safari for me
23:03.53brlcadi know ie6 has problems with the transparent png's
23:03.59pooliohttp://poolio.org/files/header.png
23:04.05MinuteElectronYeah, pngfix doesn't work on that.
23:04.27MinuteElectronhmm
23:04.43pooliobrlcad: question, www.poolio.org goes to bz.bzflag.bz how do I fix that?
23:04.57poolio(well, duh it goes there, but it displays the bz.bzflag.bz text)
23:04.58brlcaddifferent style/font being applied.. not so easy to make the search field and menu auto-expanding
23:07.01louipcwhat's so bad about css?
23:08.03brlcadpoolio: you had a bad alias line in your apache config
23:08.15brlcadneeded to be *.poolio.org, not just poolio.org
23:08.25brlcadi fixed it
23:08.28pooliothanks
23:11.09brlcadlouipc: pita to get things lined up, with the right layering of A on top of B underneath C, the appropriate scales/resizes, etc
23:12.13brlcadfg
23:12.34louipcyeah it depends on different browsers, screen resolutions etc
23:13.54louipcit's easier to just use block positioning, one thing after another
23:34.52MinuteElectrongoodngiht, I will sort out some stuff tomorrow - but my big project is getting the poll into the sidebar.
23:36.42brlcadhm, that should just be a matter of setting the poll as a block, enabling that block on the main page ("promote to front page")
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070903

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070903

00:09.56``Erikcss screams of a solution to a different problem :(
00:12.28``Erikheh
00:45.43*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
01:48.02brlcadMinuteElectron: well, I got the header menu auto-sizing now (at least horizontally, not gonna touch vertically..)
01:48.47brlcadannoying padding problem on firefox that I couldn't get rid of that makes the horizontal scrollbar show up for all of 5 pixels
01:49.52brlcadit has to be related to the navcorner, but i'm sick of it now :)
02:50.44brlcadhm, actually was related to the separators .. which I wasn't really happy with regardless, so I just ripped them out
02:51.00brlcadseems to work fine now
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04:12.44brlcadwoot, and it even looks okay in IE6 now
04:20.32yukonbobbrlcad: did you see my posting earlier today re: that pipe and rotation?
04:35.00yukonbob~lart errror
04:35.00ibotwhips out a sword and chops errror in half
04:35.08yukonbob~lart error
04:35.08ibotdeclares error a moron
04:40.55louipcI guess error got the bot that time
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09:15.49MinuteElectronbrlcad: I though you wanted the poll in the sidebar?
09:23.34brlcaderm, I do/did
09:23.39brlcadi wasn't working on that
09:24.54MinuteElectronNo, but you said about promoting it to the main page. That is easy, but how do I get it into the sidebar from there?
09:26.49brlcadah, that's a view you just turn on iirc
09:27.26brlcadi'm having basic password problems oddly enough .. i've disabled ldap and reset my password and it still won't accept it on a re-login
09:28.28brlcadI did get the menu working, as well as a bunch of other style and layout tweaks
09:29.42brlcadalas, now it's my turn to nap :)  ttyl
09:30.09MinuteElectronnight
09:30.12MinuteElectronI tihhnk
09:38.20brlcadAdmin -> Site Building -> Blocks -> "Most Recent Poll"
09:38.45brlcadyou've got the left and right sidebar styles swapped (or at least you're displaying the left on the right
09:40.05brlcadthere's a variety of blocks that can be turned on/off in the blocks section, lett-to-three column layouts by just selecting the dropdown and weights
09:40.52MinuteElectron<PROTECTED>
10:05.06*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
10:34.01``Erik</blah
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14:01.14kwizarthi!
14:01.14kwizartcan brlcad can work with a "vanilla" openNurbs ?
14:02.10kwizarti need to check what have changed with the openNurbs sources so openNurbs can be build shared externally...
15:44.24brlcadkwizart: yes it can though we have made mods so that the build works
15:45.47brlcadi believe you can see in the commit log in src/other/openNURBS where I made the handful of necessary mods that fixed their files/build
15:45.48kwizartbecause it seems better to take your patches -  but some of them seems related to copyright changes... and some others are moving headers...
15:46.05kwizartwell i have made a diff -uNr
15:46.19kwizartbut the resulting patch is huge...
15:48.25brlcadin src/other/openNURBS?
15:50.56kwizartyes
15:52.21kwizartdid I missed something ?
15:52.30brlcadare you doing a cvs diff or a dir-to-dir diff?
15:53.52kwizartdir-to-dir
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15:56.44brlcadcan you post your diff, might be easier if I see what you see :)
15:59.05brlcadyeah, I don't see anything copyright related
15:59.23brlcadjason re-implemented a lot of functionality that the rhino guys ripped out
15:59.47kwizarthttp://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/patches/openNURBS-4.0-openNURBS_brlcad.patch
16:01.00brlcadfor reference, here's what I have that we modified http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/opennurbs.patch
16:01.19brlcadcvs -q diff -b -B -kk -u -r 1.1 > changes.patch
16:04.06brlcadhm, your diff has several oddities... entire files added/missing
16:04.21brlcade.g. opennurbs_crashtest.h
16:04.29kwizartyes!
16:04.31kwizartbut why ?
16:10.30brlcadi'm thinking the opennurbs we started with is different
16:13.21kwizarti've took the 4.0 version of it...i don't remember if when it was released...
16:13.21brlcadi'm checking that now
16:13.21brlcadthey have a tendency to release several version of the same version
16:13.32brlcadyep, that's it
16:13.32brlcad-#define OPENNURBS_VERSION 200707189
16:13.33brlcad+#define OPENNURBS_VERSION 200612059
16:13.53brlcadthey made a release just really recently .. didn't know that
16:14.07brlcadwe started with the december 2006 release
16:14.28brlcadso I'll have to merge in their update
16:15.23brlcadthat's the missing files and copyright 'changes' -- e.g. files that they had that didn't have a copyright header, now have one
16:16.07brlcadyeah, and they're both "4.0"
16:18.26kwizartyes and they also have updated -// Copyright (c) 1993-2007 even if the file hasn't other update
16:19.12kwizarti don't know how i can consider the "not  even copyleft" notice
16:21.02kwizartif there is not FOSS compliant License this is not supposed to be allowed in Fedora...
16:21.02brlcadit's because their terms basically say it's public domain
16:21.11brlcadthink of it as a 0-clause BSD license
16:21.57brlcadit's of course technically not public domain, they retained copyright, but they allow any use
16:23.15brlcadtheir terms on the website are a bit misworded "There are no restrictions. Neither copyright nor copyleft restrictions apply." .. that's basically saying public domain
16:24.10brlcadand contradict their files, which claim copyright but then refer you to the website :)
16:24.48brlcadwe should pull in their website 'terms' just to cover arse
16:40.56*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/minuteelectron)
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17:13.27Laniakeabrlcad: something for you http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.avi
17:15.35Laniakea``Erik: isn't the BRL-CAD requirement for the latest version of OpenBSD a bit stringent?
17:53.34brlcadMinuteElectron: fixed the footer on collapse/expand though I had to use a nasty nasty hack
17:54.27MinuteElectronHmm, /me wonders what the nasty hack was.
17:56.43brlcadlook at misc/collapse.js
17:56.59MinuteElectronOh, I see.
17:57.01brlcadbasically resize the window during the animation
17:57.22brlcadit's a bit clunky on expansion, but fairly smooth on collapse here
17:58.15brlcadalso fixed my login problems.. the ldap module wasn't working right
17:59.03MinuteElectronHmm, it appeared to be broken -I got a few PHP errors.
18:00.58CIA-21BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: openNURBS just released an update back at the end of July, schedule integrating/reviewing those changes
18:05.21brlcadhmm, that's pretty freaking cool Laniakea... and he left
18:16.35MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can you quickly submit a vote on the poll so I can see how my styling looks when applied at a different percentage level?
18:17.32MinuteElectronNot sure whether dark should indicate percentage or light should.
18:19.43MinuteElectronI gotta run, bbl.
18:22.47brlcadMinuteElectron: i don't see a way TO vote.. :)
18:24.31brlcadthere aren't any options other that seeing the results, and posting comments
19:08.21*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (i=clock@77-56-96-242.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:23.33brlcadthat's pretty freaking cool Laniakea...
19:24.27Laniakeabrlcad: thanks
19:24.55Laniakeabrlcad: it's unfinished yet but if you want to do something with it it's under GFDL
19:26.03Laniakealike for example there are some flashes inside and I don't know what is causing them yet
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19:26.12Laniakeaor the bitrate needs to be increased
19:26.19Laniakeaend titles are missing
19:26.25Laniakeathe music ends abruptly
19:26.39Laniakeathe ordering of the individual 3D models is more or less random
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19:33.15Laniakeabrlcad: is it possible to make some kind of cartoon style? By overlaying the rtedge output with rt output?
19:35.59MinuteElectronbrlcad: Have you tried looking at the main page while logged in?
19:40.20brlcadyeah, I noticed the flashes
19:40.53MinuteElectronbrlcad: You should be able to vote now.
19:41.38brlcadLaniakea: it is possible, the rtwizard tool does that exact thing .. basically you do an rt, and and rtedge, and with the right options the two can be composited together using another cad tool (pixmatte iirc)
19:42.38brlcadMinuteElectron: okay, now it worked :)
19:42.39brlcadwhat was it?
19:42.52MinuteElectronI had to set permissions.
19:42.55brlcadahh
19:45.31MinuteElectronbbl
19:47.24Laniakeabrlcad: what's the meaning of in1, in2, true_out and false_out files in pixmatte?
19:47.25brlcadanother detail I changed on the style, black and white aren't used except for exceptional situations -- using 111 and eee instead as needed
19:47.33brlcadotherwise the contrast can be outright painful on some displays
19:47.57brlcadLaniakea: it's a dual channel filtering program
19:48.10brlcadso you provide two input streams, and filters on both streams
19:48.14brlcadmanpage has some examples
19:48.27LaniakeaI don't have manpage
19:48.38LaniakeaI would understand 2 channels and a mask saying which one should go out
19:48.41brlcadhm?
19:48.44brlcadbrlman pixmatte
19:48.56brlcador man -M /usr/brlcad/man pixmatte
19:49.22Laniakeahuh?
19:49.22LaniakeaI didn't know there is a thing like brlman
19:49.22Laniakeanow it works
19:49.22brlcadif you have brl-cad installed, there are hundreds of manual pages :)
19:49.28LaniakeaI always guessed
19:49.37LaniakeaI didn't know the manpages are available
19:49.38brlcadyou have to set your MANPATH, use -M, or use brlman (which just does it for you)
19:49.50LaniakeaI tried "man something" and when it failed I assumed brl-cad doesn't come with manpage
19:49.56brlcadahh
19:50.01brlcadjust like setting your PATH
19:51.33Laniakeaoh now I understand
19:51.33brlcadi'd suggest setting MANPATH since brlman's pager is kinda lame
19:52.38Laniakeais it possible to turn off the shading so that rt would return just the material color? So it would be filled with uniform colour like cartoons and not shaded color like 3d model?
19:52.38Laniakeabut brlman rtwizard is not available
20:03.24brlcadonly about 300 of the 400 tools have manpages
20:04.11brlcadto turn off shading, I believe there is a lighting model for that (-L option iirc, under gui options too) and if that doesn't work, you can always set the shader to 'flat'
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22:12.25``Erikthat time of the month? O.o
22:30.47kwizarthum! why /usr/bin/wall from brlcad conflict with SysVinit ?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070904

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070904

03:45.34*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
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12:46.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
12:46.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: once again, john continues to rock and rock hard he does with this latest
12:46.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: addition -- tab-completion for mged. he added tab bindings for both classic and
12:46.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: tcl gui mode where the commands complete out and then during command processing,
12:46.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: tab expands out to the available objects including down a geometry path. this
12:46.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: has been a long-desired, often-requested feature. very awesome, even if it
12:46.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: doesn't use readline/libedit. ;)
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15:38.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/remrt/rtsrv.c: commit to quell compiler warning
15:47.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (jack/g-jack.c off/g-off.c): use literal terminator instead of casting null (fixes compiler warning)
16:20.16MinuteElectronNow, I know I was going to do something...
16:46.00``Eriknot me, I was gonna do stuff intead
17:11.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_tgc.c: only print all that prep stuff if solid debugging is turned on
18:01.20``Erikheh
18:01.32``Erikall this spaghetti code is making me want to go get some italian O.o
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18:39.53``Erikheh, finally got it
18:40.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: carry a_logoverlap so -R has the expected behavior when building the irradiance cache
19:04.40brlcadthat's probably NEWS-worthy, it's user-visible
19:35.07MinuteElectronDrupal is a whore to upgrade.
19:46.23MinuteElectronEverything is done BTW.
19:46.27MinuteElectronOn the site.
19:47.48MinuteElectronIn case anyone was worried.
19:52.32brlcadawesome!
19:53.08brlcadi've upgraded drupal in the past and found it to be pretty painless for that particular upgrade (albeit a couple years ago now)
19:53.16brlcadeek
19:53.31brlcadthat kind of command scares the daylights out of me :)
19:53.50MinuteElectronbrlcad: Would you mind upgrading it.
19:54.04MinuteElectronI have restored it I can't work it out.
19:54.04brlcaddidn't you just do it?
19:54.12MinuteElectronNo, it was down?
19:54.18brlcadhm?
19:54.25brlcadi was just going from what you said
19:54.32brlcadthat "Everything is done"
19:54.34MinuteElectronoh, ok
19:54.41MinuteElectrons/done/down
19:54.49MinuteElectronSorry, uber-typo.
19:55.16brlcadoooh
19:55.22brlcadheh, yeah
19:55.55brlcadis it still down?
19:56.05MinuteElectronNo, I restored it.
19:56.12MinuteElectronBut it is still 5.1 not 5.2.
19:56.19brlcadah, down because of the upgrade
19:56.29brlcadthought you meant because of some other issue
19:56.33MinuteElectronI have no idea of how to upgrade, been trying for ages.
19:56.54brlcadokay, I'll take a look at it
19:56.58MinuteElectronThanks.
19:57.01brlcadpresume you need .2 for something?
19:57.14MinuteElectronYeah.
19:57.17brlcadk
19:57.19MinuteElectronNo, security updates.
19:57.24brlcadah
19:57.40brlcadiirc, the files installed are from freebsd ports
19:58.04brlcadso I can just update the port, copy the updated files over, run the db upgrade script if any db actions changed
19:58.14MinuteElectronoh?
19:58.25MinuteElectronfrom a port?
19:59.01brlcadfrom the "ports" system, freebsd version of apt, portage, fink, etc
20:00.38MinuteElectronok...
20:01.19MinuteElectronNo, it isn't from a port.
20:01.24brlcadhm
20:01.27brlcadoh!
20:01.31MinuteElectronI have records of doing the wget.
20:01.34brlcadyeah, you set up the current files.. that's right
20:01.40MinuteElectron*grin*
20:01.43brlcadsorry, confusing the site with another
20:01.49brlcadsame for wikimedia
20:01.52brlcader, mediawiki
20:01.52MinuteElectronIt hapens.
20:01.57MinuteElectron*happens
20:02.29brlcadthere are probably a half dozen CMS' on the server for various sites/projects
20:02.47MinuteElectronheh
20:09.35``Erikall your cms are belong to me
20:09.44``Erikmove rdbms for great justice!
20:12.28``Eriknow that's interesting
20:12.58``Erikbu_log() in rt is printing to the xterm where I ran mged instead of to the mged console window
20:17.08brlcadyeah, there's a problem with the I/O redirection that happens early on in ged.c
20:17.40brlcadeither an fd that's not closed that should be, or that forked before it's closed, or something similar
20:17.45brlcadi'd not investigated
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20:33.27minutebrlcad: Once you finish if you could talk me through the process briefly it would be nice. This is quite a big learning curve for me, I have never actually updated web software because all I ever used was bleeding edge MediaWiki (although a bad idea it was).
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20:45.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/photonmap.c: Timer based progress report on irradiance cache if sigalrm is handy. Also tries to estimate how much time left. PR#1312281.
20:50.28``Erikwtf, I smell popcnr
20:50.31``Erikcorn
21:01.17minuteI think the site is on the right track right now. Tomorrow I will port the skin to mediaWiki (shouldn't be too difficult) then start adding content (I think). Also if you haven't managed to upgrade I will look into that brlcad.
21:01.29minuteApart from them two things we are good to go.
21:02.10minuteAnd on that note I go to bed, goodnight all.
21:09.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (46 files in 14 dirs): TFLOAT changed to tfloat. also quell a few warnings/bugs related to passing the wrong TIE_3 pointer type.
21:10.40``Erikhrm
21:12.26``Eriktfloat is a define, I usually make defines all upper so'z I know what I'm looking at... might be better to change tfloat to a typedef (and give it the _t suffix, perhaps) O.o
21:41.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (11 files): libtie update from Justin. these changes are the updates after integration of libtie with MUVES-S2. it includes a few minor api changes as well as a variety of bug fixes and other cleanup.
21:42.47brlcadheh, those commits were made like on thursday .. way to go CIA-4
21:43.03starseekerHey Sean - that you?
21:43.45starseekerQuestion on the ITCL and ITK libraries
21:43.47brlcadminute: cool, sounds good -- i'll let you know what the upgrade steps where and thanks again for all the hard work on the new site.. I think it's going to be so much better, even though this is obviously quite a bit of work :)
21:43.56brlcadstarseeker: howdy ... been a while!
21:44.36brlcad``Erik: as for the tfloatness, yeah, meh .. I do to, but I was in apply-the-patch/upgrade-and-move-on mode
21:44.41starseekerIndeed :-).  Looking over the Gentoo brlcad bug, I see folks haven't given up.  I'm getting back up to speed.
21:44.56brlcadyeah, there were quite a few developments in that area
21:45.23brlcadI spent several months reworking portions of the code and ultimately ripping out that custom Tk mod that originally made the gentoo integration a royal PITA
21:45.36brlcadnow the only thing left should be namespace conflicts
21:45.48starseekerhehe - the "system nukers"
21:46.12starseekerI've been thinking about that - how does brlcad decide the default locations to look for its libraries?
21:48.48starseekerHmm - looks like the complaint in the latest ebuild attempt is that ITCL_LIBRARY and ITK_LIBRARY need to be set in the users .bashrc file.  Is that expected?
21:56.21brlcadit's pretty complicated as there are various tools/libraries looking for different things
21:56.42brlcadmged is particularly complicated in this regard as it rolls everything into one binary, so it has to find almost everything
21:57.48brlcadthere's a BRLCAD_ROOT (which folks aren't supposed to set any more) that basically amounts to the installed path that it will search for installed binary resources (like rt) as well as a BRLCAD_DATA path for shared resources (like the tclscripts that establish mged's gui)
21:58.31brlcadon top of that, tcl/tk have their own paths that they search (TCL_LIBRARY, TK_LIBRARY, ITCL_LIBRARY, ITK_LIBRARY, IWIDGETS_LIBRARY)
21:58.33starseekerIs it possible to set a "per-library" install path that would (say) put the conflicting libraries in /usr/lib/brlcad and teach the binaries to look for that particular functionality there?
21:58.58brlcadboth brl-cad and tcl/tk have compile-time paths that it knows about, run-time paths, and overrideable paths
22:00.58starseekerHmm.  I saved a report from the last time my system got wiped...
22:01.46brlcadthat's all ancient now, it's changed quite a bit wrt tcl/tk
22:02.04brlcadthe issue now will probably be that I jumped up to tcl/tk 8.5 which is not yet finalized
22:02.06starseekerAh.  librt, libbu, libregex, libbn, and libtermlib
22:03.51starseekerGentoo has an ebuild for tcl-8.5-alpha6, but still masked.
22:04.10starseekertk as well.
22:06.40starseekerI wonder why ITCL_LIBRARY and ITK_LIBRARY aren't getting set in the system.
22:06.51starseekerMaybe the ebuilds for those need work...
22:06.53brlcadyou shouldn't need to set any vars, but can to override
22:07.12brlcadit "should" all work from configure/compile-time paths
22:07.34starseekerThe latest ebuild has an informational message about setting them, and IIRC I ran into something similar when I tried a manual install.
22:07.41starseekerLet me give it a go with the latest.
22:10.58brlcadheh
22:11.21brlcadremember to not install into /usr as it'll conflict with various installed or system libs potentially
22:11.33brlcaddefault is /usr/brlcad
22:11.46starseekerRight :-).  Here's what happened last time I tried /usr:  http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=109012
22:13.18starseekerSomebody else actually tried the same thing, with similar results ;-)
22:19.01brlcadi think i even warned about it several times, iirc :)
22:19.21starseekerhehe - probably
22:24.16starseekerAh - done.
22:26.43starseekerExcellent.  Manual compile and install succeeded flawlessly
22:26.53starseekerVery nice work!
22:29.18starseekerOK, there is a real chance that most recent ebuild will actually work.
23:11.08starseekerln: accessing `/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2Tk_Alloc3DBorderFromObj.3': No such file or directory
23:11.15starseekerNuts - so close
23:18.28brlcadhm, it reported an hour and it didn't take an hour?
23:19.24brlcadminor minor issue to say the least, but I've yet to hear a report of that being wrong in years*
23:20.13brlcadyeah, looks like a trailing slash is missing there on that ln before "Tk" for that header
23:24.54starseekerbrlcad: I'll try the manual build again and see if it's wrong a second time
23:27.12brlcadyeah, I'd start with a vanilla manual install into /usr/brlcad and make sure it at least works on your system (both with --enable-all and without), then try a make distcheck
23:27.41brlcadif those three work, then move on to the portage build since then it "should" just be ebuild configuration/settings
23:30.28starseekerOK
23:38.11starseekerRedoing manual with enable-all
23:42.50starseekerIf I understand the "auto" target correctly, I can trust it to check for a system library and if it finds (for whatever reason) that it can't use it it will fall back to the internal version?
23:45.08starseekerThat poses an interesting problem.  Theoretically, what we would really want the ebuild to do would be to require tcl, tk, etc. if and only if the version installable by portage could (in theory) support brlcad.  Otherwise the build of the system version would be known to be a waste of time in advance.
23:46.22starseekerBUT - we don't want the build to stop for a failed dependency, because at that point BRL-CAD can take over.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070905

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070905

00:06.09starseekerHuh - it got the compilation time right this time.
00:20.48starseekerGOT IT
00:20.54starseekerI know why it's messing up.
00:21.44starseekerIn the portage ebuild sytem, ${S} is set to the source directory - in this case, /var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2
00:22.57starseekerUnfortunately, src/other/tcl/unix/installManPage is also using $S
00:23.28starseekertest -z "$S" && S="$DIR/"
00:24.00starseekerMANPAGE=$1
00:24.00starseekerecho $MANPAGE
00:24.00starseekerDIR=$2
00:24.00starseekerecho $DIR
00:24.00starseekertest -z "$S" && S="$DIR/"
00:24.00starseekerecho $S
00:24.11starseeker/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/unix/../doc/CrtCommand.3
00:24.11starseeker/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/image//usr/share/man/man3
00:24.11starseeker/var/tmp/portage/sci-misc/brlcad-7.10.2/work/brlcad-7.10.2
00:25.00starseekerBecause we didn't supply an -s option to the script, $S should be empty and $DIR/ should be in $S.  Thanks to portage however, $S is not empty.
00:34.05starseekerDOH - I should have checked the patches in the latest ebuild.  Nice to know I had the right idea, but someone already found it.
00:35.22brlcadyeah, that's how auto works -- and the --enable-all option effectively says "just use only internal versions"
00:36.02brlcadfor the ebuild, you'd probably want to --disable-[insert various here] or even --disable all and make them all ebuild deps
00:37.04starseekerThat's the "purist" approach that people have favored, but in a case where brlcad would succeed if it used its internal versions it would be a shame to have it die
00:37.09brlcadotherwise it should also work if you make them all deps, and just let auto do what it does, it should turn them all off if it detects the installed deps correctly, which it really should
00:38.13starseekerThat's an idea.  I just hate to compile tk8.4 when I know it won't do it ;-)
00:40.02brlcadthe build is consistent, if it compiles a dep then it's going to link against it and install it
00:40.34starseekerOK.  So the presence of an 8.4 version won't bother it if the deps have gentoo install it?
00:41.34brlcadwell tk8.4 as a dep would be wrong :)
00:42.06starseekerIf I tell it 8.5 it will die complaining about masked packages
00:42.11starseekeror unfound deps
00:42.12brlcadand no, it wouldn't bother it -- it'd just fail the tk usability test and build the 8.5a6 version
00:42.22starseekerwhich would be correct.  OK.
00:42.39brlcadyeah, like I said .. 8.5 is a pita until it goes final
00:42.45brlcadwhich is "any day now"
00:42.51starseekerhehe
00:42.52brlcadthough it's been that way for weeks
00:42.56brlcads/weeks/months/
00:43.03starseekerLike watching the stix fonts
00:43.17starseekerThey were "almost done" back in April, if memory serves
00:44.34brlcadyeah, issues came up in a5 though, so now a6
00:44.42brlcadhaven't heard if a6 had any major issues
00:46.05starseekerCollision with portage ;-)
00:48.26``Erik:D
00:49.29brlcadnot entirely fair as they overlapped .5 releases with new .4 releases for several of those years :)
00:50.16``Erikhehehe true... :D
00:50.27brlcadmore akin to 2.1 kernel and 2.0 development, by that same metric kernel is horribly slow cycles
00:50.59``Erikleenewx kernel development is awfully disorganized
00:51.30``Erikfbsd runs 3 release trees right now with a pretty decent cycle *shrug*
00:52.10starseekerI guess the next step for ebuild development is to convince the devs to allow the "auto" setting to optionally build the internal versions, and let brlcad have the /usr/brlcad directory with symlinks for some of the key binaries.
02:05.50louipcyeah it's a tough case to get all src/other/ pkgs seperate from brlcad, well I've had trouble with the itcl/itk, iwidgets
02:06.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: improved photon map irradiance progress reporting
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08:48.30brlcadheh, speaking of tcl/tk release schedules, it looks like they're finally leaving alpha
08:48.52brlcadthey just tagged 8.5b1
08:49.11brlcadnot yet posted
08:49.18Laniakeabrlcad: do you think it would be possible to adjust the 10.0 brlcad to work also on OpenBSD 4.0? (4.1 is the latest)
08:49.25Laniakeathere's some problem with the tcl/tk
08:49.31Laniakeaor itcl or something like that
08:50.23brlcadLaniakea: if you give me a shell, I can see if I can sort that build out -- otherwise I can't reproduce it and from what I read between you and erik, he couldn't either
08:50.55Laniakeabrlcad: do you need a rootshell?
08:51.01brlcadnope
08:51.21LaniakeaBut you need X Server connection?
08:51.52brlcadnot really
08:51.56LaniakeaI am currently behind a NAT
08:52.09Laniakeabut I could give you shell when I get my cable modem delivered
08:52.16brlcadi just need a shell connection, presuming you already have compilation tools installed
08:52.32Laniakeayes already installed
08:52.40brlcadi can do everything I need over ssh
08:52.42Laniakeawe made it to compile, but mged didn't start up
08:52.50Laniakeayou can use ssh -Y if you need X connection
08:53.03Laniakeado you have IPv6?
08:53.08brlcadwhich is why I said I can do everything I need over ssh ;)
08:53.25Laniakeathat's what I meant so I make sure it's allowed in sshd config
08:53.42brlcadyeah
08:53.54LaniakeaI should just make sure my gay porn collections are not visible so you cannot figure out I am gay and then threaten me to tell my mother, lol :)
08:54.01brlcadcvs client would help too
08:54.07LaniakeaI have both cvs and svn
08:54.18LaniakeaDo you have IPv6?
08:54.21brlcadi don't have time to care about your pr0n collections
08:54.23brlcadyeah
08:54.32Laniakeawhich broker?
08:54.37LaniakeaOr do you have real ipv6?
08:54.44brlcadreal
08:55.28brlcadnot sure it's configured end to end appropriately, but it's good on my end
08:55.50brlcadthough not sure why that should matter ..
08:56.08LaniakeaCause I could try to figure out ipv6 connection then you could connect already today
08:56.15Laniakeasince I don't have Internet at home only at work
08:56.26Laniakeaand I cannot ask for a tunnel since that's not for work
09:02.28brlcadwell, whatever works for you -- if you get it to the point that I can "ssh -v user@somehostofyours" I can take it from there, otherwise I'll look at the build log but it really is hard (i.e. exceptionally time consuming) to go back and forth on build failures, tweak settings, rebuild, test, repeat, etc
09:02.56Laniakeayes ssh is better
09:03.00LaniakeaI don't have problem with ssh
09:03.02brlcadi'll also do the latter, but i get impatient
10:05.09LaniakeaDo you think it would be possible to use fluid bearings in skateboard instead of ball bearings?
13:34.40``Erikitcl/itk and iwidgets work with tcl85, but don't officially support it (e.g. 'make test' fails due to changes in error message phrasing)
13:39.34``Erikshoot, that upgrade broke my parallels install and I left the cd at home :/
14:01.40``Erikhttp://www.xkcd.com/
14:01.41``Erikheh
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14:49.47brlcadhm, what init.d item handles rpc under linux?
14:51.49brlcadgetting "Cannot register service: RPC: Unable to receive; errno = Connection refused"
14:55.07``Erikummmmm portmap?
14:55.08brlcadthere it be, portmapper
14:55.21brlcadnever can remember that thing
14:55.26``Erikand different linux breeds use different names :(
14:55.32brlcadthat's why
14:56.57``Erikhttp://weblogs.java.net/blog/kirillcool/archive/2005/02/how_to_create_y.html
14:56.59``ErikO.o
14:57.04``Erikjava, but an amusing notion
15:54.51minuteBasic MediaWiki brlcad skin up, but the site doesn't actually do anything when it is switched on. I have a headache and need to get away from this for a couple of hours. Be back then with more ideas etc.
16:07.59MaloeranSo Erik, you really deserted us the Efnet #opengl old timers in #siggraph? :)
16:09.17MaloeranEven if we probably should have stayed in #opengl with our off-topic discussions long ago
16:23.10``Erikum
16:23.18``ErikI've been banned from siggraph for quite a while
16:23.24``Erikand have tried to get people to unban me O.o
16:24.28``Erikpre-marraige celebration? woohoo, body shots off of strippers!
16:42.22MaloeranNo, not that kind of celebration :). It would have been the real marriage but we under-estimated the delays involved in the paperwork and bureaucracy
16:47.46MaloeranThere doesn't seem to be any ban in #siggraph, I think it's unlikely that any bot would have got you on auto-ban
18:03.49``Erik:D
21:45.43``Erikwow debs are a royal pain to make.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070906

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070906

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04:56.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/edsol.c: good grief, tone down the exclamation marks
05:10.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/mged/edsol.c): report selected vertex/edge values using the current local coordinates instead of in millimeters when editing BoTs. this fixes sf bug #1784781 reported by dwayne as 'BOT units mm'
06:31.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/librt/mirror.c): implement mirroring of BoT primitives, the code was just never written for that primitive. this implements dwayne's sf request 1784787 (BOT primitives will not mirror).
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21:15.58poolioughh. my laptop died :'(
21:19.06louipcmy condolences
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21:24.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac misc/Makefile.am sh/make_deb.sh): completely untested guts of debian package building
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22:25.38yukonbobgood day, cadders
22:32.03brlcadhowdy bob
22:58.23yukonbobwhat's shaking brlcad
23:00.10brlcadahh, fun
23:00.24brlcadnot much for me at the moment, about to ponder dinner :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070907

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070907

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02:18.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
02:18.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: dbconcat command was not insuring unique names if neither the -s nor the -p
02:18.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: options were used. Now adds suffix as needed (-s) by default. This fixes
02:18.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: bug #1708349 "database corruption in mged 7.8.4".
04:06.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
04:06.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: john fixed a database corruption bug caused during dbconcat. dbconcat command
04:06.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: was not insuring unique names if neither the -s nor the -p options were used.
04:06.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: Now adds suffix as needed (-s) by default. This fixed bug #1708349 'database
04:06.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: corruption in mged 7.8.4'. shibby sweet.
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12:48.57fleekyhello
12:49.21fleekyive recently become interested in csg modelling techniques and was wondering if brlcad is the best choice or not
12:49.39fleekybasically im looking for something that acts much like a normal modelling program but for csg objects instead of vertice
12:49.59fleekyso you can select a group of csg objects .. duplicate them rotate / scale / move them
12:50.11fleekychange there csg ops
12:50.13fleekyetc
12:50.29fleekyi kindof momentarily checked out brl but was a bit daunted at first
12:52.05clock_fleeky: yes then brl-cad is suitable
12:52.07fleekyalso the reason im interested is i am currently developing for a game engine and need a good way to create level geometry .. the game supports obj files as models so basically everything is a model this is nice but creating buildings and such in modelling programs is just not a good idea.. so ive come in search of csg stuff
12:52.16brlcadheh, brl-cad is one of the original CSG modeling systems, it doesn't get much more fundamental
12:52.27fleekyyeah there also really isnt much out there
12:52.53fleekyand things like unrealed , hammer, gtk-radiant are Horribly limiting in terms of the csg modelling you can do
12:53.15fleekydo you guys have link that can explain the general workflow of how to model in brl-cad?
12:53.44fleekyi can atleast create a new database document thingy but for instance can it render things in a solid shaded phong lighting type mode?
12:53.46brlcadfleeky: there are a slew of introductory documents on the website, I'd suggest browsing through them one at a time
12:53.54fleekyah ok thanks
12:53.56brlcadi.e. Documents section on http://brlcad.org
12:54.00fleekyyeah
12:54.01brlcadjust go down the list
12:54.06fleekyalrighty then
12:54.10clock_fleeky: it has even more advanced lighting modes
12:54.13brlcadyou'll even get to some of the intro programming aspects
12:54.18fleekybut realtime clock?
12:54.32clock_you can press "raytrace" and wait a few seconds
12:54.36fleekynah
12:54.37clock_not realtime though
12:54.54fleekyso no realtime solid shaded views?
12:55.05clock_brlcad: I found myself unable to rotate an object - I ended up with typing numerical coordinates into a matrix
12:55.45clock_brlcad: the help is so unsatisfactory...
12:55.45brlcadthere is a high-performance triangle-based ray-trace engine in adrt that would suffice as "realtime", but you're going to be writing the lighting model if you want anything other than basic phong
12:55.45fleekyi just want phong
12:55.46fleekyi dont want to be looking at wireframes all the time
12:56.15fleekywell it helps me to get a better sense of things is all
12:56.25clock_BRLCAD != doom. It has higher quality of picture.
12:56.35fleekyhaha
12:56.37fleekyofcourse it doesnt
12:56.38clock_therefore realtime rendering is difficult
12:56.51brlcaddepends when/where you're talking about -- the mged tool is the predominant modeling system in brl-cad and that doesn't have an interactive shaded mode -- you primarily visualize via wireframe or ray-tracing
12:56.58fleekythere are realtime csg editors that do solid shading .. too bad they have horrible functionality
12:57.39fleekyis there another tool that will atleast let me see a realtime preview in any kindof solid shaded mode ?
12:57.43brlcadbrl-cad's mathematical foundations are also way more extensive than any one of those realtime csg editors
12:57.52clock_brlcad: means better picture?
12:58.02fleekyyes im sure
12:58.23brlcadif you understand the difference between explicit and implicit geometric representations, it's fairly clear as to why -- there is no interaction surface to display for the evaluated CSG interfaces
12:58.36clock_brlcad: there was some rotobj primitive where the help said it rotates the object being edited - but it didn't. It rotated everything on the screen.
12:58.51brlcadray-tracing performs that evaluation efficiently, and preserves the solidity of the object
12:59.00fleekyso basically no there is no tool to do that
12:59.07clock_brlcad: couldn't this useability be somehow fixed? It's quite slowing down
12:59.12brlcadclock_: means more accurate picture at least, depends what you care about as to whether it's "better"
12:59.39brlcadfleeky: to do what?
12:59.40clock_brlcad: yes more accurate that's what I mean
13:00.17fleekybasically all i want to do is use a csg editor to create obj geometry .. but with the full functionality of a real csg editor not the limited functionality of bsp style editors
13:00.47brlcadbrl-cad's CSG evaluation underpinnings drive actual scientific analyses so it's more important for it to be accurate than have a modeler that looked pretty .. that said, making the editor be more usable is something being worked :)
13:00.54clock_brlcad: the worst is I do modelling tasks in bursts - say 3 months develop amplifiers, and then I have to make another console for ronja. But I forget all that stuff I learnt before and have to learn a lot of stuff again - because brl-cad is so user-unfriendly
13:01.04clock_I just need more hints
13:01.47fleekybrlcad what current work is being done ?
13:01.49clock_help saying instead "rotates object" at least what object it rotates, whether a matrix is considered an object, group an object, in which modes it works and in which not, and what meaning the numbers I type have
13:01.50brlcadfleeky: I'd suggest you at least give it a try as you certainly can certainly get through many of the basics (i.e. go through a few of the exercises in the intro to mged)
13:01.58fleekycause i ahve a few suggestions in terms of useability ..
13:02.09fleekyyes i will definately do that
13:02.21brlcadclock_: because mged is so user unfriendly, I agree
13:02.24fleekyatleast if nothing better than to get a better understanding of csg editing and what can be improved
13:02.33fleekythanks again for the help
13:02.40clock_brlcad: I guess brl-cad was used by specialized professionals who did modeling all the time so they could remember all the details
13:02.42fleekyill idle here a bit i have to work a bit now though :)
13:02.44brlcadit's meant for use by folks that use it day in and day out, for the most part (for better or worse)
13:02.57clock_but now since it's out on general public, general public needs more hints to stay in the picture
13:03.09clock_needs to be more ocassional-user-compliant
13:03.11brlcadof course
13:03.24clock_which doesn't mean it has to be more annoying for the fulltime specialist
13:03.37brlcadthis is all really old topic ;)  "fixing" the problem is way more involved than it seems on the surface
13:03.38clock_I even think it will then help the fulltime specialist make less errors during his work
13:03.52clock_because he'll notice from the hints if he's going to do an error in his thinking
13:03.57brlcadjust to simply "display" an implicit sphere intesected with another sphere..
13:04.40clock_brlcad: but I think for the beginning the text files could be ammended - if somewhere is a string saying "rotates the object" it can be changed to "rotates the object, angles given in coordinates (counter-)clockwise"
13:05.03clock_There's also an issue if the angles are given in the view or in the object coordinate system
13:05.06brlcadit's not a matter of will, desire, or even planning (there is a rather detailed plan forward for fixing the usability problems) .. it's a matter of resources
13:05.12brlcadparticularly developer resources
13:05.17clock_brlcad: aha
13:05.34clock_brlcad: Bush should cut his Iraq program and assign the resulting money on BRL-CAD
13:06.20brlcadclock_: if you want to fix the documents so that strings such as that are fixed, I'd give you commit access to do so - just let me know :)
13:06.46clock_brlcad: and do you mind if I ask first which way it is in reality?
13:07.03brlcadwhich way what is?
13:07.12clock_well all these ambiguous things
13:07.23brlcadlike that statement :)
13:07.31brlcadall these what?
13:08.06clock_brlcad: all the stuff like whether X Y Z means X Y Z axes or X Y Z planes, if it turns counter- or clockwise, if it's in the view or object coord system...
13:08.39brlcadah, the consistency of items in mged
13:09.01clock_brlcad: and is it allowed to make the help items larger?
13:09.07clock_or do they have to be terse?
13:09.45brlcadwell, that's partly because mged is as mged does .. it's a tool that has been developed over the years by several different folks with different skills with respect to usability and consistency but more importantly, it's been developed very minimal fashion ...
13:10.29brlcadsomeone needed a command that does *blah* and that command is worked with the modeling experts that know mged in and out .. so to them, they just need to know x y z and they already know what that means given the context
13:11.09brlcadbecause often/generally they asked for it to be that way, and whether what they asked for made it to a label or not was pretty irrelevant for them and the dev that wrote the feature at the time
13:11.35brlcadclock_: they can be larger, terse and clear is good but informative is best
13:12.03brlcadi'd ideally think most of those commands as unix command-line commands deserving of entire manual pages that describe their use in some cases
13:12.22brlcadin the new modeling system, they will have full pages per commands (and be actual stand-alone commands)
13:13.25brlcadfor now, I gotta run .. big presentation, brl-cad goodness to report
13:14.26clock_brlcad: man is OK that's easy to show on the screen
14:11.57*** join/#brlcad cad83 (n=466b108f@bz.bzflag.bz)
15:16.27``ErikO.o
15:17.27F_squirtyo.O
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15:48.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
15:48.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: Oops! lost the prefix on the last commit. Now adds the optional prefix before
15:48.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: building a unique name for the dbconcat command.
15:54.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/misc/debian/ (11 files): more debianage
16:00.14MinuteElectronbrlcad: Will the site ever expand to have multiple copies in each language?
16:05.34MinuteElectronDoesn't matter, I have future proofed it anyway.
16:06.16*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-016-012.pools.arcor-ip.net)
16:23.21MinuteElectronbrlcad: The wiki and Drupal is officially good to go!
16:23.34MinuteElectronJust minor modifications left, but it is now in a usable state.
16:23.44MinuteElectronWell, more usable than before at least.
16:54.05brlcadMinuteElectron: I'd like to think that it will/should
16:54.26MinuteElectronwill/should what?
16:54.30brlcadMinuteElectron: have you looked at the site under IE with javascript disabled yet? :)
16:54.38MinuteElectronNot yet...
16:54.43MinuteElectronMaybe later, I gotta run now.
16:54.59MinuteElectronBye.
16:55.03brlcadthat's unfortunately a pretty common configuration for our audience (i.e. just about anyone on a govt machine)
16:55.17brlcadwill/should wrt multiple languages
16:55.34MinuteElectronok
16:55.37MinuteElectronwill do later
16:55.39MinuteElectronbye for now
16:55.40brlcadi'd hope we get to the point of having multiple
16:55.42brlcadcya MinuteElectron
16:55.44brlcadthanks again
16:55.47brlcadgreat work1
17:00.43*** join/#brlcad Laniakea (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
18:18.17brlcadyou gpl'd debian build files?? :)
18:24.53``Erikheh, that's how they come out of debmake
18:25.48``Erikand there's some serious breakage on debian that looks just like what was reported on ubuntu due to libtool abuse, so I'm busy fixing that shtuff...
18:25.52``Erikfeels like I fixed it before :/
18:26.16brlcadso does COPYING out of automake, but that don't make it good :)
18:27.47``Eriksince debmake is gpl'd and it put the gpl stamp on the files, they may've already been under the gpl *shrug* and it doesn't negatively influence us, I don't think?
19:43.04*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@204.244.194.11)
19:48.48yukonbobafternoon, cadders
19:53.40MinuteElectronhey
19:53.42MinuteElectronmy parents suck
19:54.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (46 files in 46 dirs): add link dependancy information to shared libraries and reduce redundancy
19:57.17``Eriknow to start the trek to see if that fixes all the issues on debian/ubuntu *sigh*
19:57.26MinuteElectronbrlcad: Any ideas where I can start regarding transfering content to the wiki\Drupal? Or should I wait till tomorrow to do that, or should I do it at all?
20:07.42yukonbobReduction of Redundancy Reducer
20:13.32brlcadMinuteElectron: I'd just wait till tomorrow
20:13.34MinuteElectronok
20:14.08brlcadthe place to start will probably be just pulling from docs already included in the source distribution and on the old/current website
20:14.14brlcadand go from there
20:14.24MinuteElectronok
20:17.13brlcadtomorrow for you, of course ;)
20:17.23MinuteElectronheh
20:34.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (6 files): eliminate complex.h
20:42.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (7 files): eliminate complex.h
21:05.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 3 dirs): migrated the contents of src/librt/plane.r to include/bn.h
21:05.40MinuteElectronbrlcad: What license is the documentation in CVS under?
21:06.20MinuteElectronCan I just copy and paste it, or do I need to give attribution?
21:07.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: complex.h's have been eliminated and plane.h has been assimilated into bn.h
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070908

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070908

03:09.58*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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13:30.28MinuteElectronbrlcad: Do you have a poll I can put on the website, I am adding a proper one as the poll that was originally there was temporary.
14:00.34fleeky-circusis it possible to do union / difference / intersection stuff in archer?
14:35.22MinuteElectronbrlcad: Are you wanting all the PDFs to be converted to wiki.
14:35.29MinuteElectrons/./?
17:50.19brlcadMinuteElectron: i added a better poll
17:50.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/description.txt: update the full description section so it reads better, shorten the first paragraph, include history, and mention mike. add a 2000-char long description section too.
17:50.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/pad_file.xml.in: update the long description
17:51.07brlcader, not better .. just "a poll", since there wasn't one :)
17:52.05brlcadi wouldn't work on converting the pdf's just yet -- I'd just link to them and refer to them as "books" that folks can download
17:52.12brlcad(not drupal books, just "books")
17:52.25brlcadas they were actually published books
17:53.08brlcadi mean if you want to convert them, that'd be great, but it's a project all in itself as I'm wanting to get them to docbook format so that html and pdf forms can be auto-generated
17:53.58brlcadas for the license, some of the docs are public domain, some are bsd documentation licensed
17:54.56brlcadfleeky: i believe so, but it expects you to already know the mged interface -- if you turn on the advanced interface so you can get the console, I know you can type the mged editing commands that let you perform the CSG -- not sure about the gui
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18:01.34MinuteElectronbrlcad: Cool.
18:04.16MinuteElectronFunnily some things on the site fix themselves and others destory them.
18:04.59brlcadhowso?
18:05.35brlcadfyi, i fixed the poll preview background .. it was white, added a #content .content that fixed it
18:05.54MinuteElectronThe footer didn't work properly yesterday, now it does. The navigation bar didn't stretch all the way across the screen the other day now, for some reason, it does.
18:06.04MinuteElectronin IE that is (the stretching)
18:06.13brlcadi noticed that the footer in IE didn't work for me
18:06.27brlcadunless you manually grab the window
18:06.42brlcadyou could see the 1px flutter, but it didn't move the footer
18:06.51MinuteElectronIt seams to work now.
18:06.56brlcadheh
18:07.37brlcadwhat's wierd is that it really shouldn't be needed I'd think .. it "should" work just as the last content item with a 100% width
18:08.06brlcadinstead of being basically "early" content that is placed at the end
18:08.36brlcadgood for now at least, though it would be nice to remove that hack
18:08.41MinuteElectronyeah
18:09.46brlcadi deleted that other user .. hopefully not someone in here
18:10.10brlcadbah, HD is full, can't allocate enough for the VM at the moment to check IE
18:10.18MinuteElectronouch
18:12.31MinuteElectronWould it be an idea to upload the pdf's to the wiki as a temporary measure then link from the wiki to the pdfs uplaoded to the wiki instead of it being an external link. The current locations could be redirected to the locations on the wiki.
18:13.40brlcadsounds like a great idea
18:13.44MinuteElectron:)
18:14.35brlcadthe Doc link could probably go straight to a wiki page that lists all the docs
18:14.45brlcadwith a page per doc or something
18:14.57MinuteElectronIt currently does if I am understanding you correctly.
18:15.08brlcadah, so it does
18:16.10brlcadi'm working on the drupal upgrade now, then i'll try to unify drupal/mediawiki user db's
18:16.32MinuteElectronNo LDAP?
18:16.48brlcadthat's one way to unify them ;)
18:16.58MinuteElectronOh, right. I see.
18:16.59brlcadi'm going to try
18:23.45MinuteElectroncool
18:24.38brlcadeep, You don't have permission to access /d/admin/logs/updates/settings on this server.
18:26.09MinuteElectronOh, you can only do that with the root account afaik.
18:26.23MinuteElectronWhich is my account unfourtunatley, and there is only one root account.
18:26.43MinuteElectrons/is only/can only be/
18:28.34MinuteElectronWhat needs doing?
18:28.35brlcadthat's fairly odd, drupal would normally say that in the result
18:28.39MinuteElectronoh
18:28.44MinuteElectron*shrug*
18:28.47MinuteElectronare you logged in?
18:29.38brlcadyep
18:29.58MinuteElectronhmm
18:30.00MinuteElectronodd
18:31.11MinuteElectronbrb
18:39.37MinuteElectronbacklk
18:55.50*** join/#brlcad cad94 (n=44ed0f4a@bz.bzflag.bz)
18:57.06louipc.hiub /3\
19:44.32fleekyquestion : i heard that it was planned to make a more user-friendly (idiot proof) ui for brl-cad is anyone working/planning on that in here ?
19:49.54brlcadthere has been quite a bit of work in that area, but mostly on the low-level areas that need to change for supporting a new ui
19:50.15MinuteElectronbrlcad: PDF indication: icon or text?
19:50.28brlcadicon
19:50.32MinuteElectron:)
19:50.40brlcad:)
19:51.52brlcadfleeky: if you're a dev, you're more than welcome to jump in on the fun ;)  it's pretty well understood the limitations of mged and even the improved archer interface
19:52.57brlcadit's more a matter of having enough developer manpower going into the (various) efforts needed, else just waiting for it to happen as it gets worked
21:02.17MinuteElectronouch, an 18.6MB pdf being uploaded by http.
21:04.11MinuteElectronbrlcad: Should I upload the example program to the wiki, install a syntax highlighter and paste the source code to a page, or just link to the curent location. Or a combination of the three, personally I would do 1 and 2 - but that is just me.
21:31.43brlcadwouldn't think we'd want to link to anything in the current location if we can get away with it
21:32.00MinuteElectronOk, makes sense.
21:32.09brlcadimporting into the wiki with syntax highlighting would probably look the best
21:32.42MinuteElectronWhat about the newdb documentation, would be very tedious to import in the wiki (if you want that) and is also very big.
21:37.22brlcadI'll deal with that one, it needs other work
21:42.45poolioallo
21:43.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: ok
21:47.29brlcadhowdy poolio, how's it going?
21:51.33MinuteElectronbrlcad: Once it is ready to go 'live' will the site be moved to brlcad.org or will it forever remain as my.brlcad.org? If the former then something must be done regarding doxygen I think.
21:59.02pooliobrlcad: ok except the death of my laptop. i'm thinking of starting up a robotics / genetic algorithms project here :)
22:14.58brlcad<PROTECTED>
22:15.22brlcaddoxygen stuff will completey chane
22:15.40brlcads/chane/change/
22:15.43MinuteElectronok
22:18.21brlcadpoolio: cool, sounds like fun :)
22:19.27louipcooh robotics
22:21.33MinuteElectronbrlcad: What about the ARL reports?
22:24.40poolioYeah, I'm thinking applying GAs to evolution of a proper / speedy gait. Maybe having robots develop a new gate when they're injured/modified/placed in certain circumstances.
22:25.50brlcadMinuteElectron: what about them?
22:26.04MinuteElectronwhere will they be moved?
22:26.31brlcadI have probably 30-50 reports that relate to brl-cad that are going to go into a publications section somewhere on the site
22:26.39MinuteElectronok.
22:26.44MinuteElectronsounds good
22:27.08brlcadthe three that are up there were just three that a few folks specifically asked for
22:27.22MinuteElectronOh, right.
22:28.13brlcaddrupal's probably more appropriate for them as they're fixed published documents, but the formats vary wildly and I'll need to clean them up some
22:28.56MinuteElectronok
22:29.10MinuteElectroncrickey, a 20MB pdf.
22:34.46brlcadshould be
22:35.13brlcadphp upload max is set at 128MB
22:35.31MinuteElectronCool.
22:36.14brlcaddon't see a mediawiki limit in the settings file, so whatever the default is
22:37.04minuteThere is no limit IIRC, we once had a discussion regarding it I think (in one of the mediawiki forums\malinglists\irc channls.
22:38.42brlcadwhich 20MB pdf are you referring to?  don't do anything with the An_Overview one..
22:39.13minuteuser group presentations
22:39.21brlcadaah
22:39.22brlcadheh, yeah
22:40.36minuteEverything downloaded, now for upload.
22:59.45minuteI am too tired to upload these files. Once this one uploads /me is going to sleep.
23:22.34brlcad:)
23:23.28brlcadnice progress, though ..
23:23.58brlcadas soon as the user db's are unified, it could probably go live at this point, even as new data gets added
23:25.43minutecool, thanks.
23:26.48minuteGoodnight.
23:34.52brlcadcya minute
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070909

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070909

01:43.54*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871463.dsl.bell.ca)
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10:00.38MinuteElectronbrlcad: Everything on the site except the few html things have been moved to the wiki.
10:31.20MinuteElectronI set up the gallery module, but I am not sure it works exactly as I expected.
10:31.57MinuteElectronSo everything has been moved AFAICS.
10:34.18MinuteElectronI guess my work is done, for now. When you get back can you identify antyhing else regarding the website that needs doing before it can be moded over,
10:34.21MinuteElectronThanks.
10:42.01*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877451.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:10.11*** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de)
11:10.12fleekyhi
11:10.39fleekybrlcad although i am not a coder i might be able to get interested some coders to work on the interface
11:11.19fleekydo you have any documentation as to the code for the interface and also the fundamental problems that need to be addressed before further stuff can be changed?
11:11.46fleekyanything kindof info like this i might be able to pass on to my coder friends to see if they wouldnt mind tackling a few problems
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14:24.27``Erikhm, png 1.2.20 came out
14:28.32brlcadyeah, a few days ago .. but it's just code-cosmetic according to their release notes
14:29.37``Erikfreshmeat blurb says the asm was removed
14:35.20brlcadfleeky: i'll see if I can find the pointers to some documentation, though some of the fundamental issues are thinly documented as they are long-standing problems that can be summarized fairly quickly
14:37.13brlcadamount to fininishing the implementation of spline surface breps, finishing the implicit-to-brep conversion hooks for each primitive, implementing brep csg evaluation, then implementing brep-to-faceets
14:43.13brlcadthat's pretty much it in a statement, those four steps are needed in order to just display implicit geometry in an explicit format (for petty lil things like displaying via opengl) with anything other than simplified wireframes
15:24.35fleekyi dont know if i can find programmers to fix problems like that .. but i might be able to find some people that will work on the interface
15:24.42fleekydoes it matter if the code is c or c++ ?
15:24.48fleekycan it be both ?
15:26.19brlcadthe new interface is intently going to be primarily c++
15:26.37brlcadso yeah, both
15:27.36brlcadthere's also work that can go into the interface independently, so yeah there's still plenty to be done that they could probably help out with if they don't have a solid geometry or graphics background
15:33.59fleekyahk
15:34.35fleekywell if you get some info together i will try to pass it on to someoen who will work on it
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20:01.51MinuteElectronbrlcad:  I guess my work is done, for now. When you get back can you identify antyhing else regarding the website that needs doing before it can be moded over,
20:01.59MinuteElectronthanks.
20:03.35brlcadthank you, this is really great progress
20:04.41MinuteElectrons/moded/moved
20:04.51MinuteElectronbrlcad: my pleasure
20:05.47MinuteElectron:)
21:18.20brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Website
21:21.18louipcthere's something funky looking in firefox
21:21.49louipctop menu (support, development, documentation) is all bunched together
21:30.01louipcright above the top search box: http://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.jpg
21:40.10brlcaddoes the main page look like that too?
21:41.19louipcindeed
22:00.05brlcadhm, something wrong with the css then, or something wrong with that version of firefox
22:00.25``Erikdoesn't look like that for my firefox
22:00.32``Erikbut when I bump the text size up, it starts looking bad
22:00.48``Erik<-- 2.0.0.6 mac
22:03.45louipci have 2.0.0.6 linux
22:05.24brlcadissues resizing larger is expected, the menubar doesn't presently expand vertically
22:13.17brlcadlouipc: how does the footer look for you?
22:14.57louipclooks ok but I don't get the rounded edge at the bottom of search area
22:15.25louipcyeah looks like some css incompatibilities
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070910

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070910

01:45.35*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
02:49.31*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177871463.dsl.bell.ca)
02:50.22IriX64louipc: www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc.png
02:50.35IriX64err http:// :)
03:04.57louipcwhat's that?
03:35.37IriX64a photon mapped havoc
06:11.23*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
06:27.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: What do you mean by 'login panel' - I thought I did do that already. Replaced the box with a link.
06:29.55MinuteElectronlouipc: It seams like you are missing a large part of the CSS, the tabs are in the wrong place. The sidebar shouldn't have borders etc. Can you try doing a forced clear of your Firefox cache Ctrl+Shift+R?
06:30.42MinuteElectronTo me it looks as if the HTML modifications have come to your browser, but the CSS ones haven't - a sure sign of caching.
06:41.09MinuteElectronLater all.
10:11.02louipccool it works now
11:16.03*** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de)
11:16.04fleekyhi
11:49.12*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-094-217.pools.arcor-ip.net)
12:39.35fleekyis the bulk of the new interface work being done on archer or mged or both  ? or neither ? if neither whats it being done on ?
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14:31.51*** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de)
14:34.16fleekyhi hi
14:40.05brlcadneither, new tool will leverage a ton of stuff that mged has/does, but the code is fresh (mged is a c/tcl hybrid, archer is a pure tcl/itcl rewrite)
14:40.24fleekyah ok so it will be a whole new thing
14:40.42fleekygood to know .. and its still in the planning stage right ?
14:41.17MinuteElectron07:27 < MinuteElectron> brlcad: What do you mean by 'login panel' - I thought I did do that already. Replaced the box with a link.
14:43.25brlcadfleeky: it's a constant and evolving planning stage .. lots of code has been written that support it but almost entirely on the backend/engine side of things
14:44.20brlcadMinuteElectron: i know, it's better .. something about the panel still bothers me on the main page, though
14:44.24MinuteElectronok
14:44.50brlcadcertainly a minor issue, and maybe a "after moved" issue instead of before
14:44.55MinuteElectronok
14:45.00fleekyahk
14:49.29brlcadso that was entirely a cache issue with louipc?  great
14:50.10MinuteElectronYep, and I fixed the header in IE!
14:50.24MinuteElectronSimply needed a width: so it didn't deault to 100%.
14:51.05brlcadbackups are running smoothly (again), both full server sync and database dumps, and now with better rotations on db and user logs too so backups won't take so long
14:51.14brlcadcool
14:51.19MinuteElectronnice
14:51.38fleekybrlcad do you have that link to any info on documentation for writing an interface?
14:51.49brlcadwonder how much we care about IE5Mac :)
14:51.53MinuteElectronhehe
14:51.55brlcadit's totally hosed there
14:51.59MinuteElectronouch
14:52.25fleekytest what ?
14:52.31MinuteElectronThe website.
14:52.36fleekylink pls :)
14:52.37brlcadbasically none of the pngs, and the layout is jacked
14:52.46MinuteElectroneee
14:52.52MinuteElectronfleeky: http://my.brlcad.org/
14:52.58MinuteElectronNot done yet mind you.
14:53.13fleekyofcourse
14:53.19MinuteElectronbrlcad: What is this 'Heavy load response' you are talking about?
14:53.28MinuteElectronI can't find any info on the drupal website regarding it.
14:53.42brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/ie5crap.png
14:54.06brlcadnotice the various scrollbars too :)
14:54.12fleekyman i cant wait till brl has a decent modeller friendly interface you guys will cry with happiness at the stuff i make :)
14:54.15``Erikbrlcad: is there a working NX install anywhere handy?
14:54.40MinuteElectronbrlcad: Ouch, that is bad.
14:54.48brlcad``Erik: an old one on CAD
14:54.49``Erik(ie on mac has always been a bit iFruity O.o)
14:54.55MinuteElectronindeed
14:55.02brlcadbefore it was NX of course
14:55.12``Erikdo you know if there're any big changes with library names, header names, etc?
14:55.28brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, i'm not concerned about ie5mac, but it's good to know it doesn't work there
14:55.31``Erikif I were to wire the ug-g converter in on that box, would it apply up to nx 5? (do ya'z know?)
14:55.35MinuteElectronbrlcad: ok
14:55.44brlcadprobably doesn't work on netscape either
14:56.05MinuteElectronCurrently netscape uses the Mozilla engine IIRC.
14:56.07brlcadideally, there'd be some simplified site for the older browsers .. hmm, maybe the pages made for the heavy load response
14:56.26MinuteElectronIt is basically just Firefox wrapped in Netscape rubbish.
14:56.30fleekythe site looks really nice in firefox :)
14:56.35MinuteElectronbrlcad: What is the heavy load response?
14:56.35brlcadi mean like netscape 3 on irix kind of old :)  less than 1% audience
14:56.46brlcadit's when the site gets hit really hard
14:56.49``Erikheh, ns4 gold might still be stumbled across, though
14:57.07brlcadlike during a /. reference, hundreds of visitors all of the sudden
14:57.12MinuteElectronbrlcad: How to set it up?
14:57.22brlcadthe site falls back (automatically) to a light version so it can keep responding
14:59.14``Erikthe db and httpd's always seem to chew a nontrivial amount of cpu, and there're one or two unrelated processes doing the same on that poor old box O.o
15:00.02brlcadhmm, MinuteElectron -- the statement on the Site Configuration panel, "The following enabled modules are incompatible with aggressive mode caching and will not function properly: logintoboggan, throttle.
15:00.27MinuteElectronHmm, ok...
15:00.53MinuteElectronloggintoboggan was to remove the login panel.
15:00.59MinuteElectronNot sure if you still want that or not.
15:01.15MinuteElectronthrottle is probably insignificant with a captcha installed so could be removed also
15:01.38MinuteElectrons/remove/rpalce
15:01.53brlcadheh, it's saying logintoboggan is incompatible (meaning it's not working, or at least not fully working)
15:02.05brlcadthere should have been a "content-means" to disable the login menu
15:02.17MinuteElectronok...
15:02.19brlcadthe way it lets you add/remove content and blocks to various pages
15:02.29MinuteElectronOh..
15:02.58brlcadnot that I know specifically where that option is at the moment, this is all slowly coming back to me
15:03.49brlcadaha, http://my.brlcad.org/d/admin/build/block
15:03.55brlcadthere's the throttle settings
15:04.34brlcadnot sure what that other message means specifically other than obviously saying that the site will either return a cached page or a throttle one
15:05.25brlcadthat throttle module just turns off portions of the site too, which might be good enough
15:05.36fleekyhas anyone ever made something that could just scale / rotate / move / duplicate / delete primitives and editing of the binary tree mini app?
15:06.26fleekywith just simple hotkeys ..
15:06.31MinuteElectronbrlcad: So you don't want logintoboggan and you want the login panel to appear on every page except the main page?
15:06.39fleekyor is it possible to script this into archer or mged ?
15:07.27brlcadfleeky: a few little test/prototype apps have been written over the years that have done pieces of that, though mged does do all of that (and is fully scriptable)
15:07.47brlcadMinuteElectron: what is logintoboggan?
15:08.13MinuteElectronThe thing that replaces the login panel with just a link.
15:10.05brlcadnah, keep it .. it has several other nice features (like returning users to the pages they logged in from)
15:10.18fleekywhats the scripting language brlcad
15:10.29brlcadtcl
15:10.31brlcador shell
15:10.33brlcador both
15:10.40fleekyso you can do it in the shell ?
15:11.05brlcadmged has a "command mode" where it will run just one command for you, you can wrap that in pretty much any other scripting language
15:11.23brlcadtry this, for example: mged -c file.g tops
15:12.18fleekyim in the crappy windows version ..
15:12.23brlcadah
15:12.24fleekyit just starts
15:12.37brlcadyeah, that's nfg
15:12.42fleekyi would run linux but this macbook pro has some weird formatting crap
15:12.48fleekynfg ?
15:12.52brlcadthat 7.8.4 is "incomplete" in many respsects
15:12.53brlcad~nfg
15:12.56fleekyahhh
15:13.04fleekycan i do builds with dev-cpp?
15:13.19brlcadshould be able to, but I haven't tried myself
15:13.36fleekyi would have but im not experienced enough with it to make my own .dev file
15:13.44brlcadfull compiles via cygwin are a little easier, but may require some option tweaking
15:13.44fleekywhich is basically its version of makefiles
15:13.59fleekydamn
15:14.36brlcadthere's no full-time windows dev, so the platform doesn't get the love and attention it needs
15:14.47fleekyah
15:15.01brlcadthat windows port was made .. three years ago?
15:15.07fleekylol
15:15.24fleekyi would attempt to build it .. but it sounds like a headache waiting to happen
15:15.35fleekyalso im not very experienced with doing builds in windows
15:16.05brlcadI really should compile up a full rev under msys and replace the installer (as I can get a *complete* build with msys/mingw) .. but I've just been not motivated and way too busy with other tasks
15:16.42brlcadI had a full compile under cygwin before the windows build was ever made in less than a half-hour
15:16.44fleekyso question how hard would it be to make hotkeys that do the following in mged scale/rotate/move/duplicate objects
15:16.56brlcadbut then I know what options to feed it and the two or so files I had to edit
15:17.00fleekyand then hotkeys for changing the operation on a given leaf in a tree
15:18.34brlcadmged has a slew of hotkeys already, the issue is more that it's designed to be a modal editor (ala vi/vim/whatever) so you explicitly enter edit mode beforehand and then close with accept/reject actions
15:18.57brlcadso the hotkey would either only work in certain modes, or you'd have to auto enter/exit the mode
15:19.10brlcadprobably the prior
15:19.17fleekywhat about a hotkey for entering edit mode
15:19.18fleekyala blender
15:19.36brlcadmm, that already exists, iirc
15:19.57fleekymaybe not in the windows build then hehe
15:20.00brlcadmaybe l or i
15:20.46fleekyand there are hotkeys for scale/rotate / move / duplicate ?
15:20.49brlcadit's not just "edit mode" it's edit mode on a particular object
15:21.01brlcadso it starts with object selection in an illumination mode
15:21.06fleekyhow much editing can you do on each primitive ?
15:21.35fleekyur
15:21.40fleekyi guess it depends on the primitive forget it
15:21.59fleekybrl-cad can have mesh objects as leafs in a tree right?
15:22.37brlcadahh, the hotkeys are o and s for object-edit and solid-edit mode respectively
15:22.49brlcadyes, you can
15:22.49``Eriktechnically, but a slew of tools would freak out about them not being solids
15:22.56fleekyahh
15:23.13fleekyso object edit is editing of the tree and solid edit is of the solid prmitives?
15:23.19brlcadthey're called BoTs (bag of triangles) or NMGs for completely generic polygonal surfaces
15:23.31``Erikall the nmg stuff attempts to verify triangular crap to be completely closed
15:23.37brlcadobject edit is applying matrix transforms
15:23.45fleekyoh
15:23.45``Erikthus the obnoxious runtime of the nmg funcs :D *duck*
15:23.58fleekyso which edit mode actually edits the tree
15:24.08brlcadsolid edit is changing primitive values (like making an torus have a bigger inner diameter)
15:24.12fleekyyeah
15:25.02fleekyso there isnt an edit mode for editing the tree then ?
15:25.18fleekyi guess for tree editing you really need some kindof database menu though
15:25.21brlcadyeah, meshes are a royal pita when it comes to verifying and preserving solid geometry, all sorts of bad things can and do happen
15:25.38fleekyso you can see the heirarchy and such and be able to change the operation of each leaf etc..
15:25.41brlcadwhat do you mean by editing the tree?
15:25.51brlcadmatrix transforms are object edit
15:26.14fleekyi mean changing the tree of csg ops on all the different primitives
15:26.17brlcadthat encompasses rotation, scale, moves
15:26.20fleekyi guess thats a comb ?
15:26.42brlcadah, changing the csg itself ..
15:27.04fleekybtw i really spent a good hour reading through the Dense documentation
15:27.14fleekybut i must admit i was quite daunted :)
15:27.52fleekyit seems like so many things could be made a million times easier with simple things like hotkeys , a solid-shaded visualizer , and a few menus
15:28.06brlcadthere's a massive amount of material to cover, it is daunting .. even with a good interface, learning the modeling environment would be daunting
15:28.14fleekylike a database menu that shows the whole csg tree and lets you play with that
15:28.27fleekynah the modelling philosophy is not that bad
15:28.33fleekyi rather enjoy it actually
15:28.51fleekybut just getting things intoa  fluid workflow is completely impossible at this point
15:28.56brlcadit's a good and bad thing .. the engine is all there for the "most" part .. it's fully operational and there's quite a breadth of functionality under that hood, but the interface is noticably jacked for helping you learn/use it
15:29.06fleekyyeah
15:29.07fleekyhehe
15:29.16brlcadit's not fluid until you've basically memorized a lot of stuff
15:29.23fleekyis there any possibility of getting a current build of brlcad for windows btw ?
15:29.26brlcadit does get fluid, but it's a pretty steep learning curve
15:29.32fleekyeven if it was just a .dev file i
15:29.35fleekycould compile it myself
15:29.38``Erikamusingly enough
15:29.52``ErikI'm updating the cvs tree my winderz box can see with the intent of trying a cyggy b uild
15:29.58brlcadmost of the expert brl-cad modelers are just as fluid in brl-cad as they are in other CAD systems for most operations, it's just painful to get to that point
15:30.02fleekythanks erik ..
15:30.13``Erikwhether or not it'll work is a different dealie
15:30.22brlcadeven after you go through ALL of the posted online docs, you're still considered a newbie .. that's just the basics
15:30.27fleekybrlcad well if i can figure out how to script in bash i might do that
15:30.32fleekyyeah
15:30.35fleekyi quickly realized that
15:30.40fleekyas the docs explain ultra simple tasks
15:30.52fleekyi would also like to see what the pros have made with brl-cad
15:31.04``Erik'havoc' is a kinda neat model
15:31.06fleekycause it seems that even if you become fluid in the current app you still wont be able to make anything very complicated very fast
15:31.13``Erikthere's a truck we're trying to get permission to put in the repo
15:31.24fleekyalthough the possibilities of procedural csg stuff really really interests me
15:31.43fleekyerik if you guys help me out with the interface i will make you some really crazy stuff
15:32.17fleekyhttp://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Highpoly.jpg
15:32.22fleekyi am atleast not a noob at modelling
15:32.25fleekywell poly modelling
15:32.36``Erikheh, the interface is "expert friendly" and those of us being paid to hack the software aren't allowed to really engage in any big revamping activities on the gui... at least not on paid time :)
15:33.00brlcadfleeky: you have this one in your example geometry folder< http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
15:33.37``Erikfleeky: cool, how many triangles and how much is bumpmapping?
15:33.47fleekythats all zbrush triangles
15:33.49``Erik(looks like bumpmapping, not displacementmapping)
15:33.51fleekyits about 12 million
15:34.03fleekygive or take
15:34.20``ErikI assume it was decimated for the gmae?
15:34.21``Erikgame
15:34.22fleekyalthough in zbrush's hd geometry mode you typically paint on a one billion poly surface
15:34.29fleekyi will get you the ingame shots..
15:34.37fleekyhttp://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Placeholder-Player-Model
15:34.38fleekyur
15:34.50fleekyhttp://www.digitalfunk.org/darkwar/wiki/index.php?title=Ingame_Screenshots
15:34.53fleekythere you go
15:34.54``Erik<-- is stumbling around the wiki
15:34.59brlcadfleeky: another, http://my.brlcad.org/OLD/images/t62c.jpg
15:35.20fleekythe tank is pretty nice
15:35.22``Erikearly stage tech demo, I see
15:35.23brlcadevery wire/bolt/nut on the inside and outside are modeled there, it's not just a skin
15:35.31fleekybut with a proper interface i could make that *right* now
15:35.51brlcaddoubtful with the interior :)
15:36.42fleekyif you just give me something that will let me do move / scale / rotate / duplicate .. and then union / difference / subtract with nice hotkeys then its not doubtful
15:36.53fleekymaybe move along axis also *shrug*
15:37.02brlcadthe other difference is that it's an engineering model, it's accurate down the the last detail, nothing is eyeballed
15:37.03fleekylike press move + axis letter
15:37.21fleekywell im less about that and more about detail
15:37.33brlcadit's doubtful in the sense that you don't know what the interior of the vehicle looks like :)
15:37.34fleekyim just looking at it in terms of level of detail
15:37.39fleekythis is true !
15:38.28fleekyi am not an engineer .. im actually a circus performer
15:38.37``Erikthere're loads and loads of pictures of t62 interiors
15:42.46brlcadah, here's one http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png
15:43.35brlcadrunning all of those pipes and cables accurately is hell in most systems
15:44.31brlcadour best guys often say that is one area where mged is actually better than most, the ease at which they can route pipes exactly
15:45.04brlcadit can still be better, though, it can always be better :)
15:46.33``Erikteh fux
15:46.37``Erikthey didn't install all of cygwin
15:46.58``Erikand it's blocked, bah
15:50.03fleekyerik
15:50.12fleekyif you walk me through it i could try building it for you
15:51.02fleekyive never used cygwin  before heh
15:51.02``Erikdo you have a full up cygwin install with a compiler and everything?
15:51.11fleekyno but i could go and get it
15:51.15fleekyjust tell me what i need to install
15:51.55``Erikhm, cygwin, um, with gcc installed (don't need g77, gobjc, or g++) ummmm, shouldn't need perl
15:52.06brlcadthe only trick will be getting tcl mged to come up, classic mode is a breeze but the display manager is erksome with tcl mged
15:52.09``Erikdunno if you'd need the X stuff
15:52.13brlcadyou will have to turn off opengl, iirc
15:52.31``Erik<-- was hoping to muddle through all that and 'fix' it in the config scripts :)
15:52.39fleekyhrm
15:52.44brlcadif you want wgl to build by default, you'll have to edit several things, it's going to try/prefer x11 by default
15:52.46fleekyno opengl makes me a sad monkey
15:53.01``Erikogl won't buy you anything, it's all wireframe
15:53.02brlcadthat doesn't mean what you think it means
15:53.09fleekyah doh
15:53.22fleekyyou guys really need a solid shaded mode :)
15:53.33``Erikyes, we do, and if mgmt would let us, we'd work on it
15:53.34``Erik:)
15:53.39fleekyor atleast have it so you can set the raytracer to render every few milliseconds
15:53.48fleekywhat who is mgmt
15:53.51brlcadit's just whether it's talking to the display via opengl protocol, or X11 protocol, or Win32 protocol, etc .. they're all interchangable and fully functional
15:53.52``Erikthe raytrace isn't quite that fast
15:53.53fleekyur management ?
15:54.21brlcadfleeky: that list that I mentioned yesterday is needed for solid shaded mode
15:54.29``Erik<-- paid to work on BRL-CAD, kinda has to respect their priorities a tiny little bit... :)
15:54.35brlcadthat's why it's fundamental for working on the new modeler
15:55.02``Erikheh, awesome
15:55.03fleekybrlcad i missed that link
15:55.11brlcadwhich link?
15:55.14``Erikone tiny little storm cell started up... over dundalk
15:55.14``Erik:D
15:55.16brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/primitives/Plate%20IV.png ?
15:55.40fleekyi remember you mentioning that solid shading was a fundamental problem thogh
15:55.53brlcadit is
15:55.58``Erikyes, we deal in implicit solids all CSG'd together
15:56.12brlcadmathematical differences between working with implicit and explicit geometric representations
15:56.13``Eriksolid shading expects reduced triangle (or polygon) information
15:56.53``Erikalmost every modern opengl card only understands triangles lines and dots... quads are converted to a trifan or tristrip on the fly
15:57.30fleekywhy cant you just convert the csg to a model on the fly
15:57.40fleekyeg to quads/triangels
15:57.53fleekyur im sure its much easier than waving the magic feature wand.. but just curious
15:58.12brlcadgoing from implicit to explicit is usually a royal pita, going from explicit to implicit is pretty much impossible without just guessing
15:58.13``Erikit takes a whole lot of computation to figure out where the boundries are
15:58.21fleekyreally?
15:58.27fleekyive seen a few implementations that do it
15:58.27brlcadthat's the whole task "just convert the csg to a polygonal model on the fly"
15:58.32brlcadthat "just" is quite complex
15:58.32fleekyhehe
15:58.41fleekyyes i realize that i didnt mean to trivialize it
15:59.02brlcadthere aren't many implementations other than commercial cad systems that do this
15:59.16brlcadI know of only two open source projects that "do this" and they have no user interface
15:59.21``Erikand qradiant/gtk-radiant's version is really crude and hackish
15:59.23``Erik*cough*
15:59.27fleekyqwemodeller does it
15:59.42brlcadit doesn not
15:59.51brlcadit deals with explicit models under the hood
15:59.57brlcadonce you have explicit, it's trivial
16:00.07fleekyhttp://spivak2.at.tut.by/qwemodel/index.htm
16:00.11fleekyoh
16:00.30fleekyim confused whats the difference between what you have and explicit models ?
16:00.50``Erikto do, say, a sphere
16:00.51brlcadyep, it's doing CSG on something that's already turned into a parametric or otherwise explicit surface representation that can be directly evaluated
16:00.56``Erikwe have a point and a radius, that's it
16:01.00``Erikthey have a slew of triangles
16:01.40``Erikwhat that sphere means depends... it could be a cutting tool, an adding tool, ... their triangles are always the final surface representation
16:01.42fleekyah i see
16:01.57brlcadwith an implicit surface .. there is no surface (there is no spoon), at least until you _evaluate_ it .. which is done in several ways, but often expensive
16:02.00brlcador complicated
16:02.06fleekyhehe there is no spoon
16:02.23fleekyso underneath there not converting from implicit to explicit ?
16:02.30brlcadnope
16:02.30``Eriknope
16:02.35``Erikwe raytrace implicites
16:02.40brlcadjust doing csg on explicit (which was in that list I mentioned) ;)
16:02.49fleekyah ok
16:02.55fleekyi think my brain is up to speed now
16:03.12fleekyi just need to find a coder who can work on an explicit model implementation for brl-cad then
16:03.21brlcadbut csg on explicits are a _lot_ easier .. and they're cheating with the video card (a neat trick, but falls apart on large models)
16:03.37fleekylarge models means what ?
16:03.38brlcadpretty much :)
16:03.46``Erika couple billion triangles?
16:03.48brlcadmodels that can't be evaluated on the video card ;)
16:03.48``Erikworth?
16:03.58fleekyah ok
16:04.01fleekythats not a problem for me though
16:04.11brlcadnah, that video card CSG evaluation trick falls apart *way* before a billion
16:04.15fleekyas i am interested in using this to make level geometry for a game
16:04.30fleekywhats the reason that it breaks down ?
16:04.37``Eriklack of video memory?
16:04.41brlcadit's more depth-limited, as there are several passes per depth of the csg hierarchy
16:04.49fleekywhat about paging
16:05.20``Erik<-- doesn't know the technique they use, kinda guessing :)
16:05.20brlcadafter about 7-10 levels, the rendering is entirely non-interactive -- a "real" model might be dozens of levels deep
16:05.25fleekyok you have to explain the depth-limiting a bit more .. does this mean how far into the tree heirarchy you can go ?
16:05.56brlcadand it's non-linear, you'd hose it up after just a few levels, and you can't get the "resultant set" out of the card -- it's just for display purposes
16:06.25brlcadi looked into it for doing mged rendering .. it'd actually kinda work for small models, certainly for most "parts/regions"
16:06.31fleekywell if it can just display the model thats all i need .. we can later compute export to a model format
16:06.40brlcadcould have it even fall back to wire at a known depth that will hose it, but I don't want to work on mged
16:07.30brlcadthe problem is that computing export is the "bigger problem" .. that's harder than just displaying it and none of the work put into displaying it gets you any closer
16:08.22fleekywhats the problem with that ?
16:09.27brlcadthat's where brep spline surfaces come to the rescue -- you can convert almost all of our primitives to a brep spline surface representation *faithfully* and instantly .. doing CSG on just brep spline surfaces is hard but tractable .. going from evaluated CSG brep spline surfaces to polygonal is .. trivial
16:11.26fleekyi assume thats something like nurbs?
16:11.41brlcadyep
16:12.10fleekyahk as that is what i had imagined would be the middle man
16:12.16fleekywhats the dif between brep spline and nurbs
16:12.41brlcadnurbs is a spline surface representation, just one of several types
16:12.46fleekyah ok
16:12.55brlcadbrep spline surface is just the "generalized" form
16:12.57``Erikand the result would look a hell of a lot better than, say, shooting a ray every 5 pixels across and five pixels down and doing hacky gouraud shading between :D
16:13.09brlcadand faster
16:13.23fleekylol
16:13.27``ErikNURBS is non-uniform rational b-spline
16:13.55brlcadalthough I've been motivated to give that a try sometime too .. something like what lee did with the point sampling, but make it adaptive
16:14.36``Erikfor 'flat' areas, you could sample a lot less frequently, then increase sample at the edges, kinda like ummmm, how marching cubes focuses in
16:14.45fleekyhehe
16:14.47fleekyneato
16:14.57``Eriknow
16:15.03brlcadbasically adaptive real-time rendering when the rays themselves get too expensive to keep it doing fast enough
16:15.18fleekybasically marching cubes but for raytracing ?
16:15.22brlcadi bet you could even display something complex reasonably well enough
16:15.39``Erikin theory, it'd be a reasonably easy hack, if you can suffer the rtprep
16:15.50fleekytrprep?
16:16.04brlcadmaybe as one of several "visualization mode" plugins in the new modeler
16:16.19``Erikpreparing the geometry for raytracing... building the acceleration sturctures and stuff
16:16.20brlcadmaybe one of the first ones if breps aren't finished this year
16:16.23fleekyso what is the interface plan for the new modeller ?
16:16.56brlcadit's gonna be a big curses-only gui
16:17.26brlcadba-dum *ching*
16:17.29fleekyhehe
16:17.59brlcadthank you, thank you, I'm here all week
16:18.03brlcadtry the lobster bisque
16:18.06fleekyall year even :)
16:18.52fleekywell i hope you guys get working on this magic app
16:19.00fleekyill try and find some interested coders
16:19.11brlcadworking every day, just a problem of manpower and time :)
16:19.19``Erikcurses??? damn, I was hoping for line feed :(
16:19.26``Erikthe "ed" of modelling
16:19.44brlcadwebsite is getting my attention these days as MinuteElectron's been the first of many to actually "step up" and make excellent progress
16:20.31``Erikfleeky: have you gone through any of the tutorials yet?
16:20.39brlcadcode-wise, spent most of the last 8 months working on nurbs support (albeit indirectly, but it sure still took up a lot of time)
16:20.53fleekyerik yeah
16:21.03brlcadjason made great progress, wish someone hadn't blown it for keeping him on board
16:21.12``Erikheh
16:21.23fleekyi read through enough of it to really hate the interface :)
16:21.33brlcadyou learn to love it ;)
16:21.36brlcadand hate it
16:21.41fleekynooo its not what i need though
16:21.46brlcadit really is powerful, just not very friendly
16:21.55fleekypowerful yes in the command line sense
16:22.05``Erikit's kinda designed for absolute precision, not visual ease
16:22.12fleekyyes this is the problem
16:22.19``Erikdepends on what your purpose is
16:22.21fleekyim looking to make level geometry with it .. for a game :(
16:22.33brlcadlike a old guru that will answer just about any question you have for it, and send you on your way home magically
16:22.34fleekyquite complex and vast level geometry
16:22.38fleekybut level geometry nontheless
16:22.40brlcadbut kick your ass in the process
16:22.41``Erikif you're trying to represent an existing thing faithfully, it's great, if you're trying to slap out eye candy, not so much
16:22.49fleekyyep
16:22.54fleekyim trying to slap
16:23.40brlcadhmm.. speaking of magic .. I should be playing a game today
16:23.50fleekybut it being powerfull for its intended purpose is a good sign
16:23.57fleekywhat game /
16:24.10``Erikand it's kinda designed to represent military vehicles (big things, simple shapes, flat surfaces, not many curves) more than anything else
16:24.25brlcadfleeky: in the big picture, even mged doesn't expose more than about 50% of what brl-cad on the whole is capable of
16:24.35brlcadit wraps a lot of functionality, but missed much too
16:25.04brlcadthe new system should do much much better at that wrapping, being extensively more modular and working with the existing tools more readily/automatically
16:25.10fleekyif you had nurbs support with it you could all the curves you want ?
16:25.37brlcadsure, nurbs are the best at curvature
16:25.54brlcadbut you have to expose that via the editor too, which is tricky in itself
16:26.04fleekywhat do you mean expose ?
16:26.14``Erikmake accessable
16:26.32brlcadwhen we talk about implementing nurbs support, i'm talking (at this point) about just fundamental representation, just being able to *have* a nurbs object, able to render and evaluate it
16:26.33fleekyi see
16:26.58brlcadbeing able to actually manipulate and edit that surface is an entirely separate issue and is mostly gui issues
16:27.03``Erikwe have primitives that can exist, be imported, exported, raytraced, converted... but cannot be edited in mged
16:27.11fleekyhehe
16:27.22fleekythats highly funny
16:27.32brlcadthat said, if it's implicit primitives that are just using nurbs for visualization, you wouldn't need to know .. you'd just see the objects and edit their implicit paramters
16:27.51fleekyits like i have this hamburger i can make it for you but you cant eat it
16:28.17``Eriknot that funny *shrug* the need was to import the geometry and raytrace it... the need wasn't to edit it... *shrug* so people were told to do that much and then go on to the next task
16:28.29fleekyah
16:28.38brlcadthere's representation, visualization, and manipulation .. and various levels of each .. all independent problems
16:28.51``Erikand editing got put on the 'todo' list
16:30.06brlcadrepresentation is the basic structure(s) in memory; visualization is wireframe, ray-tracing, and eventually opengl shaded displays; manipulation is gui editing support (picking points/curves, editing parameters)
16:31.06fleekyyeah quite a lot of work
16:32.16``Erikone of the neat aspects of having things broken out all nifty like that is if someone wanted to make a modeller, they could build it ontop of the representation using our libraries and be interoperable...
16:32.23``Erik'archer' is kinda an example of that
16:32.57fleekyspeaking of archer
16:33.00fleekyis there any docs for it  ?
16:33.03fleekyi didnt see any
16:33.09fleekywhen i went to brlcad.org
16:33.16fleekyor whatever the url is hehe
16:34.20fleekyahk hehe
16:34.28fleekycause at first i thought archer would be what i needed
16:34.45``ErikI think it's kinda more of a prototype
16:34.47fleekyand then i got stuck trying to figure out how it worked and then i didnt find the docs
16:34.49fleekyah ok
16:35.02fleekydo you know how to make csg stuff from it ?
16:35.21fleekythe farthest i got was just making primitives and the combs were confusing me as to how the worked exactly
16:35.41``Erikheh, no? I saw a demo where they slapped together a basic tank really fast... but I haven't used it... I started it up, saw there was a gui there and quit it... (testing on fbsd)
16:35.58fleekylol
16:40.35brlcadyou sort of have to know mged before archer can be useful, but it was designed as an eventual replacement
16:40.54brlcadit does "clean up" most of the things that mged leaves to be desired
16:41.20brlcadgiving you gui panels and command line for most things that you'd want: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/Archer_0.5prototype.png
16:41.31fleekyyeah
16:41.36fleekyi like the interface for it
16:42.07fleekyi just dont understand combs really and when i try to edit things once ive combined them in a comb things start messing up very nicely
16:42.35brlcadit's actually using an "embedded mged" in there, just to show you some of that reusability
16:42.53fleekyah .. i like how i can see a shaded preview in it also :)
16:43.14brlcadah, see you'd have that issue regardless, as understanding combs is pretty fundamental/basic -- you'd have an understanding of combs after the tutorial series
16:43.49brlcadthough it basically amounts to "it's a single node in the hierarchy"
16:43.54fleekywell i know enough to union
16:44.16fleekyand i assume you can have multiple combs doing different stuff
16:44.32brlcada whole hierarchy of them doing different things :)
16:44.33fleekyi just forget the subtraction command
16:44.36fleekythere is u - and ?
16:44.41brlcad+
16:44.43fleekyah thats it
16:45.12brlcadwhich I don't like frankly.. I'd probably use + for union, - for subtraction, and x for intersection myself
16:45.28brlcadbut that predates me by over a decade
16:45.40fleekythe only confusing thing is when i make the comb its as if the graphics buffer isnt cleared and if i try moving stuff around it doesnt move.. but then if i change the shading to wireframe again it moves .. but as if it created a new version of the comb that is overtop and if i change it back its like there are two instances of the comb in the viewer
16:46.13fleekyi use the term graphics buffer very loosely
16:46.19fleekyjust trying to explain what i see
16:46.31brlcadin archer yes?
16:46.34fleekyyes
16:46.54brlcadit would be just a simple matter of it actually being a bug (remember that archer is also 3 years old there)
16:47.00fleekyomg
16:47.03fleekyblah
16:47.08fleekymakes using it basically impossible ;)
16:47.09brlcadi'm not saying it is, I have no idea
16:47.19brlcadcould be the way you're using it
16:47.29brlcadbut you're working with alpha software there, not even beta
16:48.14fleekyyeah
16:48.16fleekysig
16:48.17brlcadit was added to help inspire some devs to improve upon it, show what's possible with a new interface, etc
16:48.17fleekysigh
16:49.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am: include the sources in the dist, even if not built
16:49.11fleekywell they atleast succeeded in making a prettyy nice interface
16:49.37``Erikhrm, I may've done that backwards
16:50.15fleekyone thing that would be nice though is if it would just make a default comb for you .. and whenever you clicked on a primitive it would be automatically added to that comb unless you deselected the comb
16:50.16brlcadsomeone interested could rather quickly make archer into a usable interface .. faster even than it'll take to come up with the new interface
16:50.26brlcadit's just not in the direction I'd like to go for the long-term
16:50.35fleekywhat dont you like about it
16:50.39``Eriksomeone interested who is a tcl guru... archer is all tcl iirc
16:51.05fleekylol
16:51.11brlcadit's predominantly in incrTcl aside from the plugged-in mged portions from C
16:51.43fleekyah ok
16:51.52fleekyyeah it would be better if it was code rather than script
16:51.57brlcad``Erik: did you test that massive library changeover on several platforms first (at least bsd, mac, linux?)
16:51.58``Erik<-- likes the notion of having several different gui modelers, just pick the gui closest to your task at hand... doesn't like the notion of maintaining a bunch of guis :D
16:52.11fleekyalthough for me i would rather have something now that doesnt work as good then something good that works in 2 years :)
16:52.17``Erikerm, what massive library changeover?
16:52.41brlcadit was nasty repetition, but it 'worked' on all the platforms .. i'm highly suspicious that you broke the build somewhere
16:52.48brlcadthe one from thurs/friday
16:53.01``Erikoh, I hit it on bsd, mac, linux, irix and solaris
16:53.09brlcadokay, cool
16:53.19brlcadso then the only thing that broke was M3 :)
16:53.51``Erikok, so I brought the BRL-CAD component of M3 into complience with the rest of M3's state.
16:53.57``Erik*cough*
16:54.06brlcadthey *have* to be nil libraries because M3 isn't setting an LD_LIB_PATH to anything
16:54.52brlcadtcl is still going to come up unresolved now that they're not static, but I'll probably just have them manually install it or something
16:54.54``Erikin theory, libtool SHOULD add an rpath to the ELF header for dependant libraries...
16:55.23``Erikhrm, I don't think I un-staticked tcl
16:55.54``Erikmy bigarsed commit was to fix breakage for certain breeds of leenewx O.o
16:56.01``Erikand to clean things up a bit :)
16:57.19brlcadi un-static'd it a few months ago iirc
16:57.57brlcadoh, I don't mind .. i hated the duplication -- it was a hack that was just guaranteed to work at the time
16:58.23brlcadit's more whether it actually fixed anything or if it was cosmetic and likely to break the build elsewhere
16:58.33brlcadfiniky versions of libtool notwithstanding
16:58.52``Erikthe missing X stuff that was reported on ubuntu
16:58.55``ErikI saw that on debian
16:59.16``Erikso that's what tripped me off on that
16:59.24``Erikthursday, I wasn't in on friday
16:59.36``Eriker, wait, yeah I was, it musta been friday
17:00.32brlcadMinuteElectron: we do have (or at least did in the past) have permission to use the Mac OS X logo, and of course the Linux penguin 'logo'
17:00.32brlcadnot sure about the windows logo, would have to check or make something new
17:00.49brlcadbsd needs to be in the list with the little demon dude
17:01.30brlcad4 bsd logos is overkill unless it's going to be a bsd-specific download page
17:01.42MinuteElectronbrlcad: Can we not just use the Windows Logo under fair-use?
17:02.01``Erik*shrug* they may've forked from the same tree, but hey, solaris hpux and aix forked from that same tree
17:02.02brlcadit's not clear how fair use applies in that case
17:02.08MinuteElectronok...
17:02.50``Erikbeastie represents original bsd, bsdlite, and freebsd, but openbsd is puffer, netbsd is who the fuck knows what, dragonfly is a dragonfly ... :)
17:03.19brlcad"Do not use the Windows logo on or in connection with products, packaging, manuals, promotional and advertising materials, or Web sites for any purpose except pursuant to an express written trademark license from Microsoft. See the Logo Programs page for more details."
17:03.34``Erikok
17:03.43``Eriklets get a picture of a bsod, scale it down, and use that.
17:03.47``Erikeveryone will know we mean windows
17:03.47``Erik:D
17:03.49brlcadhttp://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/intellectualproperty/trademarks/logo/programs.mspx
17:04.33brlcadthe new freebsd logo is slick enough to represent, http://www.freebsd.org/logo.html
17:04.44``Erikmeh
17:05.20``Eriklooks like some tard sucked apples corporate wang and that's what shot out, lacks the charm of the cartoon character :D *duck*
17:06.21brlcadmeh, the cartoon had no polish appeal, made it really hard to take it serious at least perception-wise
17:06.35``Erikwho cares about poland? :D
17:06.36``Erik*duck*
17:06.59``ErikI mean, um, just as polished as tux? :D
17:07.28brlcadtux has the same problem, that's why most commercial distros hide the fat bastard
17:09.08brlcadand even for those that don't.. it's slightly easy to swallow than a little devil with a pitchfork for most folks
17:09.29``Erikheh, true
17:09.57``Erikused to be around once a month some troll would hit the fbsd mailing lists asking why we were all devil worshippers and satanists and god will throw us all to hell blah blah blah
17:11.17brlcadexactly, that's just distracting no matter what your religious inclination is
17:11.58``Erik<-- just being antagonistic today :) just like every day
17:15.07``Erik*ponder*
17:15.24``Erikshould we have an 8 branch, or should we have a 7 branch and call head the new 8?
17:29.53MinuteElectron``Erik: Just my opinion, completely unwarrented probably, but on a programming projects I am relatively active on we use head for non-released stuff (e.g. your version 8) and branches for versions that have been released. Quite effective I find, although the project I am refering to works by adding features to head and only adding security\major bug fixes to release branches.
17:31.08MinuteElectrons/projects/project
17:31.27MinuteElectronWe probably use a different release structure anyway so maybe irrelevant.
17:32.35``Erikthat's kinda the approach I'm used to and like, minute... (freebsd is a good model)
17:32.48MinuteElectronheh
17:33.09``Erikbut there's a line in the TODO that suggests making an 8 branch for 'cutting edge' and making head the front line of 7... which is what I'm contesting here :D
17:33.57brlcadthe problem is that I don't expect 8 for probably two years *at best*, with many releases in between with major efforts
17:34.38brlcad8 is more experimental at this point, hence branch instead of head -- otherwise it would be just done
17:34.40``Erikfbsd has HEAD as total bleeding edge, each major has a branch, each minor has a branch off of its major, and patches are tagged, with lots of MFC activity
17:35.07brlcadbsd has/had an EXPERIMENTAL branch too
17:35.28``Erikit's had many, but most of that has been moved to private CVS and perforce
17:35.32brlcadthat's effectively what 8 is, just naming it for that feature
17:36.20``Erikmebbe the branch should be BREAKS_DB so it can be re-used for the next major O.o
17:36.33brlcadregardless, what they did isn't necessarily the god model either, just to be noted .. head imo should be where most of the effort is going
17:36.49brlcadat that is 7 right now, and will be 7 for a long time still
17:36.57``Erikhow many things are going to break the db format?
17:37.07brlcadyet I'd like to start on a few 8 things in the meantime, so .. a branch
17:37.31``Erik<-- just doesn't like the notion of using a version number in an experimental branch *shrug*
17:38.21brlcadthat sounds like an entirely personal issue :)
17:38.32brlcadit's not like it'd be just called "8"
17:38.38brlcadthough that would be kind of funny
17:39.47brlcadit'd follow the branch naming guidelines, probably rel-8-branch or even something generic like EXPERIMENTAL
17:40.04``Erik(of course, I also think tags should be entirely [A-Z0-9_])
17:40.07MinuteElectronDo you even hav any branches yet?
17:40.43``Erikyup
17:42.27``Erik9 so far
17:42.55brlcadthat's just because you have lots of personal bias/religion that have little technical foundation :P
17:42.55brlcadabout as useful as arguing over 2 space indents vs 4
17:42.55brlcadit doesn't matter so long as it's consistent
17:42.55brlcadwhich is why there's a naming convention in place and it is pretty much consistent now
17:42.55brlcadMinuteElectron: the windows port was a relatively major branch effort
17:42.57brlcadas was the upgrade to ansi C syntax
17:43.40MinuteElectronIs there a secret subversion\cvs server somewhere?
17:43.44MinuteElectronI don't see any branches.
17:44.28brlcadcvs status -v README | grep branch
17:44.33``Erikany tag that has 4 numbers instead of 2 is a branch
17:44.58MinuteElectronI haven't got it checked out anywhere at the moment.
17:45.29``Erikhttp://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/
17:45.34``Eriklook at the sticky tag dropdown
17:45.37brlcadhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7572c566
17:45.38MinuteElectronI know.
17:45.42MinuteElectronBut I can't grep.
17:45.47``Erikhuh, there were branches that configure.ac wasn't in
17:45.51*** join/#brlcad |jenda| (n=Kopr@r6dj122.net.upc.cz)
17:46.04MinuteElectronOh, I see.
17:46.09``Erikif you do the sticky branch dropdown, it'll say "Branches" with a list, then "Non-brnach tags" with a list
17:46.12MinuteElectronIt is me getting too used to subversion.
17:46.29MinuteElectronI have never even used cvs so don't know the ins and outs.
17:46.44brlcadthat's probably a good thing
17:47.09brlcadless than four months remaining!
17:47.13MinuteElectronI would never use cvs if I had the choice.
17:47.17MinuteElectron4 months till what?
17:47.39MinuteElectronchristmas?
17:47.48MinuteElectronlol - I have to go, dinner.
17:47.53brlcadI've had the conversion to Subversion planned for quite a while .. "before the end of the year"
17:48.10brlcadwhich is this year, so within four months we'll be on svn
17:48.58brlcadprobably month after next as soon as this next release is rolled out
17:50.40``Erikheh, I had some bad experiences with svn a while back, but it does have some nice features... *shrug*
18:04.12MinuteElectronsvn>cvs
18:04.18MinuteElectronany day
18:04.55``Erikhehehe, if you've never used cvs, how do ya know? :D
18:05.10MinuteElectronbecause cvs is a hore to use
18:05.33``Erikerm, svn is made so all the commands are almost identical?
18:05.48MinuteElectronI have checked out brlcad before. But I haven't really "used it".
18:06.32MinuteElectronIt has benefits, the thing I hate about cvs is it doesn't use plain and simple directory structure.
18:06.46``Erikhowso?
18:07.01MinuteElectronmodules
18:07.04MinuteElectronstickies
18:07.24``Erikah, those're tags, that's one thing that drives me up the wall with svn
18:07.46``Erikhaving to remember to append /trunk if I want the latest, sheesh
18:07.51``Erik:D
18:15.32MinuteElectronAnd is that 1 million lines of source code thing real?
18:15.42MinuteElectrons/1 million/over a million
18:15.56``Erik?
18:16.05MinuteElectronhttp://my.brlcad.org/tmp/overview_page8.jpg
18:18.38MinuteElectronSo I have 5 out of 6 logos ready. Not sure where I can get a decent copy of the IRIX cube from though. Appears IRIX is EOP.
18:19.44MinuteElectronThe only ones I can find are tiny, and it is a bit silly having a tiny logo in the middle of a box.
18:21.30MinuteElectronI am glad I have done this, will be quite useful for this and in the future on projects I am doing at the moment.
18:21.58MinuteElectronI have to go, but I will add transparency and upload when I get back in an hour.
18:24.33``Erikhow big?
18:25.25``Eriksomething like http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/images/c/cd/Sgi_cube_logo.png  ?
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18:43.24brlcadMinuteElectron: yes, it's quite true .. more than a million
18:45.42brlcadthe biggest win for svn is that it actually operates with changesets instead of per-dir actions, tracks file moves and renames, and actually tracks directories
18:46.34brlcadthose are three things you simply cannot do in cvs without resorting to various usage conventions, conventions which are particularly error-prone
18:47.22brlcadthe rest is gravy (http access, better user auth, mime types, eol-tracking, better binary diff management, etc)
18:48.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (Makefile.am tie.c tie_kdtree.c): move to old C comments so we can remove the -std=c99 cflag
18:51.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c): wrap stdint.h (fix for solaris)
18:55.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (dfft.c syn.c): remove the "complex.h" include
19:03.29brlcadwoot
19:03.41``Erik?
19:03.41brlcad~``Erik++
19:04.01brlcadfixing the libtie build flag sillyness
19:04.14``Erikthe only issue was c++ style comments
19:04.35brlcadheh
19:04.42``Eriksed -i.bak 's,//\(.*\),/*& */,' *.[ch]
19:04.42brlcadwhy doesn't that surprise me
19:04.46``Erikwhere's my cake and medal?
19:04.46``ErikO.o
19:04.47``Erikheh
19:05.46``Erik-std=c99 was breaking the build on slowaris, sys/int_types.h refused to define uint64_t if any stdc was defined...
19:06.51``Erikweird way of doing it, too... #if __STDC__ - 0 || !defined(_LONGLONG)
19:06.54``Eriksomething of that nature
19:07.33``Erikaaanyways, got a full build on solaris, installing now, then will beat on mged a little and run bench there just to verify.... heh
19:09.16brlcadcool, maybe we can finally update that version number :)
19:09.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am:
19:09.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: librtserver needs to be able to have all brl-cad symbols resolved, must use the
19:09.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: not-installed-libraries for the LIBADD. tcl will still fail if a suitable
19:09.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: libtcl is not installed in a standard system search path (and it's too much of
19:09.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: an unmaintainable pita to make a libtcl_nil).
19:10.08``Erikirix and debian are both still giving me issues :/
19:13.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/beset/fitness.c: silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope
19:15.09``Erikpheer the awesome might of TWO 180mhz r10k's O.o
19:15.38brlcadcare of irix, it has a few false-positive failures that are compiler bugs
19:16.05brlcadone being long rpaths if it's a lib probablem
19:16.14``ErikI may be running into that right now
19:16.28``Erikmissing X symbols was one thing that scrolled by
19:17.30``Erikspeaking of, I have a similar bug in fbsd to fix, the /etc/group parser is hardcoded [512], and silently truncates :/
19:17.46``Erikhere on our darkside, we have group lists lmore than 512 characters
19:24.31brlcadwhich parser?
19:24.45brlcada cad tool that actually reads /etc/group?
19:24.50``Eriknooo, in freebsd
19:24.54``Erikin libc I think
19:24.56brlcadooh
19:25.18``Erikbtw, made /p/tmp on 'that old irix machine'
19:25.20brlcadaah, gotcha .. mistook what you read
19:26.37``Erikthose didn't look like there was much space available, /p has plenty of unused space
19:27.12``Erikotherwise, I usually use something like /usr/tmp/erik/brlcadbuild (or /usr/tmp/erik/brlcadbuildall)
19:27.57brlcad<PROTECTED>
19:28.16brlcadeither way, what you picked was good too
19:28.40``Erik~375 megs?
19:28.44``Erik*shrug*
19:29.11``Erikjust in case you're surprised to see the existance of /p/tmp mode 1777
19:29.15``Erik:)
19:29.58brlcadthat's because it's got a full cad build in there from the last time i'd tested
19:33.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/pixdsplit.c liboptical/photonmap.c): should only be using common.h, not brlcad_config.h
19:39.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (19 files in 11 dirs): should only be using common.h, not brlcad_config.h
19:39.32MinuteElectron``Erik: Wow, where'd you find that?
19:39.44``Erikgoogle images?
19:40.03MinuteElectronwhat did you search for?
19:40.11``Erik"irix logo"
19:40.12MinuteElectronI only found bad resolution ones on google.
19:40.28``Erikthen filtered on size (large had nothing, but medium had that a couple pages in)
19:40.28MinuteElectroninteresting
19:40.29brlcadsomeone modeled that in brl-cad once
19:40.40``Erikheh, g_pipe yo
19:41.06MinuteElectronWow, and it is almost perfect size.
19:41.13MinuteElectron128x125 and I wanted 128x128
19:41.24brlcadheh, yeah, though it's a near-zero-radius turn
19:42.49``Erikbench on slowaris looks like the results are correct... the expected 74 off by one on m35
19:42.54``Erik(using gcc)
19:46.08brlcadnifty, http://www.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sgilogo.png
19:49.41``Erikmodel looks about right, but the angle is wrong :)
19:49.50*** join/#brlcad fleeky (n=boogie@port-213-148-156-2.static.qsc.de)
19:59.42*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
20:23.57*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877B59.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:32.52``Erikoh... now that's fucking lovely
20:36.36``Erikdebian (and I'd guess ubuntu by extension) patch and ugly break into their libtool.
20:37.14pooliommm debian packages.
20:37.35``Eriks/d u/ u/
20:48.31``Erikif I autogen on a nondebian machine, it builds ok... if I autogen on the dbeian machine, I get unresolved symbols. those assclowns. *fume*
20:52.27brlcadwoot, http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/sgi.png
20:53.33brlcadnot too surprising, and explains some of the debian errors i've seen
20:53.37MinuteElectronnice
20:54.20MinuteElectronI hate magic wand transparency, it never works. http://my.brlcad.org/d/downloads
20:55.07brlcadheh, it works.. it just doesn't work the way you think it works :)
20:55.18MinuteElectronwhat?
20:55.26brlcadmagic wand
20:55.29MinuteElectronOh, I see.
20:55.30MinuteElectronlol
20:56.19brlcadfor that, though -- just cheat
20:56.26MinuteElectronbrlcad: text-align, left or center.
20:56.34brlcadput them in a white/grey box
20:56.38MinuteElectronok.
20:58.30MinuteElectronbrlcad: the logos and the text, or just the text?
20:58.54MinuteElectronoh, I see.
21:16.54MinuteElectron:) http://my.brlcad.org/d/downloads
21:18.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: :)
21:19.07brlcadhehe, much better :)
21:19.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libfb/Makefile.am libdm/Makefile.am): the opengl knobs assume X is handy (wgl knob is used for windows)
21:20.01pooliomake 'em transparent :)
21:20.10MinuteElectronThey arem just not properly.
21:20.14MinuteElectrons/m/,
21:21.57brlcad``Erik: hm .. the direction there is to make just one symbol per interface so only one configure option per interface is needed as well
21:22.15brlcadit could just as readily be named x11opengl but it's just a label
21:22.50``Erikmeh, I'm tired and about to leave, just fixing an irix link error (cropped up in rttherm)
21:23.03``ErikI'll try to remember to clean it up tomorrow O.o but it works now and didn't before, so *shrug*
21:24.04brlcadi realized that, just letting you know the direction ..
21:24.10``Erikaight
21:24.24brlcadthe problem right now is tying them to with/enable features
21:24.51``Erikbbi45 or so
21:25.21brlcadthere really should probably be just an --enable-libfb="ogl x11" or similar and the --with-x11 and --with-opengl options just help find stuff
21:25.59brlcadsame for --enable-libdm
21:26.17brlcador collapse them into one --enable-interface
21:31.33brlcadwoot2, http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/sgi.png
21:31.58brlcaddidn't add light sources yet, but close enough .. that was a fun lil script
21:46.44MinuteElectronOk, site nearly finished. But is in a bit of a bad state. Will finish tomorrow.
21:53.14|jenda|nkj
23:26.51brlcadmy feelings exactly |jenda|
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070911

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070911

00:01.27starseekerbrlcad:  Question about the benchmark-only and rtserver-only modes - do they automatically ignore --enable-debug and/or --disable-debug?
00:18.37brlcader, they shouldn't
00:20.29*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:27.14brlcadstarseeker: ebuild also should entirely not care about the *-only modes :)
00:30.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): multiply as a double
00:38.52starseekerbrlcad:  OK, fair enough :-)
00:39.09starseekerMakes life simpler :-)
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05:02.55``Erik<PROTECTED>
05:39.40poolioHave a fun day at work today guys :)
10:11.16brlcadheh, thanks
10:11.23brlcadhave fun in class
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12:59.49``Erik*yawn*
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15:49.03MinuteElectronbrlcad: block on top of main page added - may need more styling though. Other than the styling on that everything I can do\know how to do before moving the site over is done.
17:21.04``Eriknow that's interesting
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17:30.07MinuteElectron``Erik: ?
17:31.42``Erikheh, discrepency in bench/run.sh output on different platforms...
17:31.52``Eriktracked the bug, fixed it, doing cross platform testing now, then I'll commit :)
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18:35.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: fix parsing bit that confused /bin/sh on solaris
18:40.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: setting a log variable confuses some shells (solaris /bin/sh) and kills the log function, so rename the var to lg
19:05.35brlcadheh, silly shell
19:06.29brlcadminute: cool, it looks good/better -- how'd you end up getting that block up there?  is it actually a drupal block or some other node or something else?
19:10.51minuteI put a $sidebar_right in the php code and just stuck the block in the right sidebar.
19:11.08minuteSince we aren't using a sidebar I just used that.
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19:13.35minutes/sidebar/right sidebar
19:15.58``ErikSWEET, I crashed X11.app
19:23.01``Erikconsistantly
19:26.18brlcadminute: heh, ewww!
19:26.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: WITH_OPENGL actually means GLX, so don't enable if X is not enabled
19:29.08minutebrlcad: :D
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19:31.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/Makefile.am libfb/Makefile.am): de-nest OPENGL from X11, configure now does the sanity checking
19:38.24minuteYou have four machines?
19:38.36``Erikheh, a lot more than 4
19:38.38minuteI guess Mac, Linux, IRIX, Solaris, BSD - makes sense.
19:38.43``Erikbut that's enough of a representative set for what i'm doing
19:39.24``Erikhey, brlcad, run mged -c and attach ogl
19:39.56``Erikkills X dead :D
19:40.24``Eriksince other gl programs work remote X, I assume we do something weird to trigger their bug?
19:56.23``Erikhummmm
20:29.26``Erikbrlcad, when was the last time you tested the X shtuffz on irix? the XNewModifiermap() test is failing for me due to link ordering
20:33.12poolioI believe that test was failing for IriX64 on Windows too
21:21.21``ErikX is supposed to fail on windows
21:21.28``Erikit's windows, not an X supporting platform :D
21:25.15``Erikconsider: http://paste.lisp.org/display/47595
21:54.59poolio``Erik: oh hmmm. someone had that same issue before, I would grep my logs but my laptop died :\
21:55.45poolioIriX64 also runs cygwin and schtuff, I dunno if that can support X apps. It's been awhile...sorry :P
22:35.19IriX64Xmodifiermap vs xmodifier keymap?
22:35.30IriX64err minus space
22:36.06IriX64poolio my xapps run well :)
22:38.57IriX64alanis morisette has such a jewel of a voice :)
22:39.32IriX64just pointing out that x apps run well with windows medi player :P
22:39.39IriX64err media
22:43.38IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/desktop.png  :)  now show me yours :)
22:47.11``Erikdamn I rule... cruising through yuppyville in my beemer, long hair, goatee, blasting lynyrd skynyrd
22:48.01IriX64right remember it, you're the resident mind expert aren't you :)
22:49.05IriX64we've already done the yardstick test ``Erik
22:54.33IriX64btw that was launched from an icon on the destop
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070912

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070912

00:11.24*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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03:39.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: libtie updates from the muves team are now fully integrated, the rest of the items are pushed back again for the next iteration in order to get this release stabilized and tested
03:42.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
03:42.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: erik fixed an issue in the benchmark tool that was causing bad juju when it came
03:42.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: time to compute the stats due to a 'log' variable shadowing a function in the
03:42.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: script of the same name. he renamed the function to lg and all reportedly is
03:42.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: well with the world now on solaris (where this problem seemed to be isolated).
03:45.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: adrt seems to be pretty much working now, so call it 'done' too though there is more work that could probably occur on decoupling it from sdl and/or python given the trivial benefit gained.
03:48.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: minor rewording
03:52.34brlcadIriX64: did you ever get Jamie to assign copyright on the hex.c program?
03:52.53brlcadso that it can be incorporated
03:53.17brlcadideally just slapping on the standard header will do the trick, but I can't do it for him/her
03:55.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: update OpenNURBS to the July 2007 update, integrate changes with the fixes we already have made ourselves
04:03.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Makefile.am:
04:03.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: automake 1.6 chokes on having EXTRA_DIST listed on multiple true/false contexts,
04:03.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: and does not grok the += syntax. it's still supported because it's still pretty
04:03.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: prevalent, so back it up so EXTRA_DIST is only listed once.
05:00.10brlcad:)
05:00.44brlcadpar for the course, if it's not on brl-cad then it's on some other project
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14:56.15minutebrlcad: I have everything I know how to do regarding getting the website ready for the move. I have absolutely no idea how to set up LDAP, and I believe you were doing that, also I am not sure how to configure heavy load response but will have a look into it.
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18:42.39brlcadMinuteElectron: no problem, I'm still churning away at it actually
18:44.54brlcadthat style should probably be changed for the info box, maybe change the "right" menu style
18:45.18brlcada simple rounded corner box would probably work much better than the menu style
18:52.21MinuteElectronok
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070913

00:02.42*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130)
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04:00.40*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
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13:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: automake has a braindead auto-inclusion of ChangeLog files that is causing make
13:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: distcheck to fail when trying to include the debian 'changelog' file. avoid the
13:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: whole issue and make the file more generalized (auto-sets the version and time
13:48.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: now) by turning it into an autoconf template instead.
14:17.08``Erikbehh
14:17.15``ErikI tried that and it puked on 'make deb'
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15:35.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: o davisson
16:09.22*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=bi4fuxzn@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-2a639c832245555a)
16:41.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh: need devscripts, not debmake
17:06.20*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=mmv7eo1c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-2ca98bb90c676fdd)
17:06.42MinuteElectronbrlcad: I am having trouble connecting to your server.
17:07.44MinuteElectronUnable to connect via SSH or HTTP. Also all my processes appear to have been killed since I am not on IRC although I was when went to bed last night.
17:13.18``Erik<-- just logged in with no issue
17:14.25``Erikand you logged out at 9:41 server time
17:14.32``Eriker, wait,s orry
17:14.37``Erik17;56
17:14.46``Erikest
17:18.03MinuteElectronThat is about 22:56 my time.
17:18.26MinuteElectronOdd, that is about when I did leave. But I remember typing '/sleep' not '/quit'.
17:19.17MinuteElectronAnd now I can't connect at all which is really queer.
17:21.44MinuteElectronHow queer.
17:24.43louipchttp://www.warwickworldwide.com/img/news/large/queer%20redone.jpg
17:26.57MinuteElectronXD
19:13.09*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (i=x74m9lp5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.net/x-cd17b82d6b19c8c4)
19:16.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: Any ideas on my problem?
19:18.23MinuteElectronSame error as last time I believe, connection timed out.
19:29.15MinuteElectronOk, so I connected to it using a friends server.
19:29.21MinuteElectronApparently my screen session is Dead.
19:29.33brlcadyes, screens are gone
19:29.35MinuteElectronAlthough I don't know what that means it probably means it is unrecoverable.
19:29.46MinuteElectronbrlcad: What happend?
19:29.52brlcadthe machine had scheduled maintenance last night, was rebooted to install some new hardware
19:30.04MinuteElectronDid it get 500 days uptime.
19:30.10MinuteElectronI saw 499 at last check.
19:31.07MinuteElectronbrlcad: How does screen even know that a session existed if the machine was rebooted?
19:31.10``Erikand DOH, reboot without knowing it, I lost game time :(
19:31.15brlcadMinuteElectron: uptime was lost :( *sniff*
19:31.27brlcadi think it got past 500, but don't know how far
19:31.34MinuteElectronCool.
19:31.36brlcadhave to check some logs
19:31.50``Eriknot using uptimed?
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19:32.08``Eriksysutils/uptimed
19:42.21brlcadi think you installed uptimed
19:43.17``Erikuprecords says...
19:43.21``Erik<PROTECTED>
19:45.47brlcadawwww
19:45.50brlcadbitch
19:47.35``Erikheh, the installed version does funny things with that kernel O.o try 'uprecords -b' (boot ordered instead of uptime ordered)
19:57.42``Erikhummmm, had to do some hackery to get ucbcc working :/ (was puking on its own headers with the -Xc flag)
20:03.24``Erikand more than just the tree walk in clone, hum
20:13.12*** join/#brlcad JJZ (n=kvirc@81.90.250.169)
20:35.00minute``Erik: What is up with the boot record in the future?
20:36.26``Erikexactly! :D
20:38.13``Erik(kernel boot time vs program insantiation, I would guess... and it's favoring kernel?)
20:39.28MinuteElectron0     5   499 days, 10:08:25 | FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE    Mon May  1 12:54:52 2006
20:39.29MinuteElectron->   6     0 days, 17:27:30 | FreeBSD 5.2.1-RELEASE    Wed Sep 12 23:06:42 2007
20:39.30MinuteElectron<PROTECTED>
20:39.39MinuteElectronHow weird.
20:40.57MinuteElectronAlso note the difference between 17:24:30 and 17:26:34 is greater than the difference between 23:07:10 and 23:06:42.
21:10.02louipcmuhaha I have more uptime now
21:10.57brlcadhehe
21:12.03louipchey brlcad did you say something about moving the project from CVS before?
21:13.13brlcadyes
21:13.19brlcadwe're moving to svn before the end of the year
21:13.26louipcah ok
21:13.30brlcadprobably in oct/nov
21:14.05louipcI've been using git recently. It's pretty sweet
21:15.32MaloeranJust wondering, have there been any updates on Archer? Mark would like me to work on it at some point in the future, but it was quite broken on Linux last I tried
21:15.38louipcwasup
21:18.26MaloeranHow's life lately, louipc? I sure went through a couple big changes here
21:18.49louipcMaloeran: doesn't look like archer's been updated I haven't updated for a long time
21:19.27louipcnot bad I'm coding some web interface stuff to host build files for my distro
21:19.46louipchow about you? what kind of changes?
21:20.23MaloeranErik, they would like me to integrate RF into Archer to replace librt, but amusingly, I can't even run the current software
21:20.42MaloeranWell louipc... For example, my future wife ( celebration on October 13th ) and my mother will be meeting in 26 hours
21:20.44``Erikerm, does archer even fire rays? heh, I thought it was more about libwdb :)
21:21.00louipcwow congrats
21:21.12MaloeranIt does raytracing rendering, but they may want to use RF for interactive visualization and editing too
21:22.11MaloeranAnd from Siggraph, Disney Studios is apparently interested in some sort of parternship to integrate the software into some fancy photorealistic rendering
21:24.27louipcoh is that with the real-time stuff you were doing?
21:24.51MaloeranYes, I guess it could cut their rendering time quite a bit
21:24.58louipcsweet
21:25.20``Erikcut rendering time or cut compute farm size..
21:25.41``Erikpower bill for those things must suck, dumping power to heat the room, and more power to cool it... :D
21:26.03MaloeranIt would be nice for artists to obtain quicker results, rather than wait constantly for the frames to pop up
21:26.27``Erikthat's what low quality frames are for :D
21:27.26MaloeranEh, still unhappy with your job over there?
21:27.41``Erikwith a certain element or two, yes
21:29.02MaloeranSurvice may not like me too much lately... I gravely suffer from the symptoms of a phenethylamine neurotransmitter imbalance, such as insomnia, lack of concentration, loss of emotional control
21:29.22``Eriktime to back off the crack, dude
21:30.27MaloeranTsk. A surge in phenethylamine is a symptom of falling in love, your biochemistry is rusty :)
21:31.37``Erikheh
21:31.42``Erik<-- doesn't do biochemistry
21:32.29MaloeranI read abundantely on the topic, trying desperately to understand the situation and cure the condition so I could focus on work. It wasn't of much help
21:33.18``Erikbeer. *grunt*.
21:33.39louipcor whiskey
21:33.51``Erikwhoa, hey now, learn to walk before ya run! :D
21:34.01``Erikmmmm whiskey....
21:34.15``Erikthey were out of the kind I like last time I went to the package store, I'm still kinda sad about that...
21:34.20``Erik(bushmills)
21:34.33``Eriktequila shots?
21:34.43MaloeranI'm frightened how easily she can compromise my principles
21:34.44louipcyou know why canadian money is coloured? So you can tell a 5 from a 20 when you're shitfaced at the bar
21:35.08MaloeranErik, some cocktail and fancy wine
21:35.50MaloeranI sure had a lot of trouble solving the Rubik's cube she gave me as wedding gift afterwards
21:35.58``ErikI thought it was because most of it comes from 'monopoly' boxes
21:36.05``Erik"fancy wine"?
21:36.16``Erik"some cocktail"?
21:36.32MaloeranI know absolutely nothing of these things :)
21:36.40louipcdom perignon and some port
21:36.47``Erikirish carbomb and thunderbird? O.o
21:37.19MaloeranSome wine at 180$ the bottle in any case, it was supposedly great according to the people present. I found the taste way too... aggressive
21:37.28``Erikbut 180... canadian...
21:37.30louipcoh damn
21:37.35``Erikso that's, like
21:37.39``Erika buck fifty? thunderbird...
21:37.41MaloeranThat's like 175USD these days, Erik :)
21:37.43louipc179 american
21:37.45louipc:D
21:37.46``ErikI know :(
21:37.53``Erik*sigh* stupid fucking fucktard republicans
21:38.47MaloeranAnd it took me a good 4.5 hours to figure out the thing!
21:38.51``Erikheh
21:38.58``Eriktakes me like 3 minutes with any start position
21:39.05``Erikjust give me a flathead screwdriver and watch me go, yo
21:39.11louipctakes me... I don't even know how long
21:39.15MaloeranI had never studied the toy before, I'm sure I could do better next time
21:39.21louipc``Erik: ah good one
21:42.05louipclike that? http://growabrain.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/18/rubik_4x4.jpg
21:42.13``Erikheh, yes.. 2*n=2+n. Proof: n=2, 2*2 = 2+2, true. That's done, proven even!
21:42.24``Erikgo play some sudoku, boy :D
21:42.40MaloeranSodoku is dreadfully boring :)
21:43.03``Erikplay aussie rules sudoku
21:43.05``Erikfull contact
21:43.06``Erik:D
21:46.37dtidrow_worklol
21:47.11MaloeranI have no idea what Sudoku full contact is, but I laughed too :)
21:48.54dtidrow_workheh - I was thinking about footy when I saw that  :-)
21:49.32dtidrow_work(footy = aussie rules football)
21:50.40MaloeranPeople have already written 4d and even 5d Rubik's cubes
21:50.51MaloeranThe 5 dimensions one frightens me
21:50.54dtidrow_workyeah
21:51.07dtidrow_workhard enough to think about a 4D cube...
21:51.58louipcyeah how the heck does that work?
21:52.32dtidrow_workno cule
21:52.35dtidrow_workclue
21:53.08dtidrow_workmy brain hurts any time I think of something higher than 3D
21:53.32MaloeranIn 4 dimensions, you would have 8 3d volumes, of which you must align the 54 cells
21:53.58MaloeranI can think of simple stuff in 4d, but a Rubik's cube is pushing a bit too far
21:55.33dtidrow_workindeed
21:56.30louipc3d 'shadows' of 4d things are insane even
21:56.54dtidrow_workthat I can kinda grok
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22:33.13yukonbobhey cadders
22:33.23``Erikpotato
22:33.36yukonbob~lart potato
22:33.36ibotwhips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that potato is stuck to the floor
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070914

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070914

00:21.23*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:05.53starseekerThey're going to fight hard to insist on no internal copies of libraries.  Grr...
02:06.12starseekerOr I should say, it may depend on who we can interest...
02:07.16louipctell them to fix it then they'll turn around :D
02:08.08louipcon the other hand if they succeed great!
02:09.30starseekerSean's got it in good shape - we just need to get TCL 8.5 and all its friends to release stable versions.
02:10.22starseekerI'm still unclear if there are one or two cases where it's just a full-on name conflict.
02:11.00louipcbetween 8.4 and 8.5?
02:11.03starseekerIf we have to depend on an unstable tcl, brl-cad will remain masked.  And it sounds like some of the Gentoo devs think that's how it shoudl be
02:11.10starseekerno, between other libs
02:11.26louipcoh you mean for installing in /usr/lib*
02:11.31starseekerI'm arguing for /usr/brlcad or /opt/brlcad for an install path, and a lot of them are going to want it in there
02:11.51louipcyeah I put it in /opt/brlcad for archlinux
02:12.00starseekerIt's simpler and safer.
02:12.21starseekerAnd if tcl 8.5 isn't available, I want to use the internal version rather than fail.  That didn't seem to sit well either.
02:12.23louipcit thought that gentoo used /opt for large packages like brlcad
02:12.25starseekerSigh.
02:12.32louipcjava... dunno what else qt?
02:12.36starseekerThe policy I saw said binaries only
02:12.41louipcoh heh
02:12.49starseekerWe could have an ebuild for the binary build of BRL-CAD I suppose...
02:12.54starseekerseems a shame though
02:13.02louipcit's been a year since i've used gentoo! haha
02:13.07louipcactually not yet a year
02:13.25starseekerarchlinux work better?
02:13.25louipchave both!
02:13.33louipcarchlinux is awesome
02:13.43starseekerI find gentoo very clean and well integrated
02:13.50louipcI don't have to waste my time compiling every single package
02:13.54starseekerjust a bit stubborn about package management ;-)
02:14.13louipcyikes I found gentoo to be quite messy
02:14.19starseekerreally?
02:14.22louipcbut I hear that they've improved
02:14.28starseekerI guess I'm mental ;-)
02:14.48louipcyeah portage would mess up my system every once in awhile if I tried to --sync
02:14.53starseekerah
02:15.02louipcneed to completely reinstall
02:15.03starseekeryeah, they had a few bad moments a while back.
02:15.21starseekerI had to completely reinstall after putting BRL-CAD in /usr ;-)
02:15.38louipcand I have  a PIII 866MHz so compiling every damned thing was a PAIN
02:15.59louipcstarseeker: ouch
02:16.05starseekerI'm hoping the guy I was arguing with in #gentoo will hop onto the bug for the ebuild and Sean can hang him out to dry ;-)
02:16.07MaloeranGentoo is like Linux from Scratch with package management, it's not bad for developpers or people who know what they are doing
02:16.18louipcstarseeker: ;)
02:16.19starseekerlouipc:  ouch
02:16.42starseekerHeh - I've got a nice fast P4 now (my old machine died, probably to excessive code compiling)
02:17.47starseeker8 cores??  You young whippersnappers, in my day we lived with one core so primitive it didn't even need it's own power feed, and we liked it!
02:17.48louipcyeah I was thinking Gentoo might be better viewed as an automatic-distro-making tool
02:18.14starseekerI've got two cores now, and I'm still getting used to how nice it is.
02:18.33louipcI think I'm getting a laptop next
02:18.39starseekerThought I was buying one core - heh, was rather surprised when gkrellm popped up two displays ;-)
02:18.44louipcdual core
02:18.51louipcsweet
02:18.54MaloeranI still had Gentoo fall apart in horrible ways, more than once. The last time was when I emerged a 32 bits X emulation library, and just that killed PAM ( can no longuer log in ), deleted fsck, and plenty of other "system" packages
02:19.08starseekerOwowowow
02:19.20MaloeranI never understood how that happened, but it's kind of bothersome.  For anyone who doesn't know Linux in depth, that would be a pain to fix
02:19.28starseekerNo kidding.
02:20.01starseekerUsually in situations that extreme, I would get out the install CD, boot it, mount the partitions without starting the install steps, and then start debuggind using the CD environment
02:20.08louipcyeah it sucks when you can't even find the problem and you have to reinstall. it's like you've been defeated
02:20.14starseekeramazing flexible and powerful - saved my tail a number of times
02:20.31MaloeranYes... I just plugged the hard drive in another box and fixed the mess there
02:20.40starseekerBRL-CAD took the cake though - even revdep-rebuild didn't fix it.
02:21.31louipchow many gentoo devs are there?
02:21.56starseekerA fair number, but probably less than are needed for the software they have listed.  Debian does better there.
02:22.17louipcdebian hardly releases though hah
02:22.23starseekerHeh - true
02:23.07starseekerThe distros are too used to small packages that can easily follow their rules - when it comes to things like Axiom, BRL-CAD, OpenDX, GRASS, etc. it becomes much more difficult
02:24.05louipchaha yeah I was telling an archlinux dev and he was saying 'oh no it's easy to make packages'
02:24.19louipcand I said 'yeah usually, but not THIS one'
02:24.34louipcstarseeker: never!
02:24.55starseekerlouipc:  Of course, what was I thinking - we wouldn't have a decent text editor
02:25.33starseekerJust curious - what do y'all think about literate programming?
02:25.56louipcwhat's that?
02:26.30starseekerDonald Knuth developed it - it's a programming philosophy where source code and text are woven together in a single document, intended for human readibility
02:26.38starseekerreadability sorry
02:26.51starseekerThe TeX typesetting system is created in that fashion
02:27.01starseekeryou can buy the TeX source code in book form
02:27.36MaloeranI find source code perfectly readable by itself, as I think most good programmers would
02:28.03louipca philosophy where you comment code nicely and use good variable and function names?
02:29.50starseekerWell... here's an example:  
02:30.00starseekerhang on, gotta find it...
02:32.04starseekerhttp://portal.axiom-developer.org/Members/starseeker/cl-web-v0.8.lisp.pdf/download
02:33.44starseekerI guess I like the idea of having thinks like citations to mathematical research for mathematical code, etc.
02:34.26louipcso it's a class of computer language eh?
02:35.18louipcprogramming language rather
02:36.03MaloeranLooks like a lot to read to understand the concept... but I'm really skeptical of the idea
02:36.05starseekernot really - just a mark-up convention that allows source code extraction
02:36.25starseekerMany people don't care for it
02:36.36starseekerIt might be that it is only really appropriate for special situations
02:36.52louipcwell it makes sense kind of
02:37.16louipcI might use something like doxygen otherwise
02:37.53starseekerhttp://www.literateprogramming.com/ might be a good place as an intro
02:38.47starseekerMaloeran:  It's only really useful to those who don't intimately understand the code, or perhaps the coding language
02:39.32Maloeran*nods* Right
02:39.49starseekerit has a certain appeal for open source (and particularly for Axiom, where a lot of the code is complex mathematics) where you have many developers who need to quickly understand both the code and the reasons for writing the code the way it was written
02:39.51MaloeranI'm not generally fond of documentation, it's good for high-level stuff, but the low-level source code should speak by itself
02:40.12louipcwell documentation can save time rather than having to go over every line of code to understand what it does
02:40.20MaloeranThat's high-level documentation, yes
02:40.47starseekercl-web is a parser for literate documents, itself written as a literate document.
02:41.18starseekerthe idea is almost anyone with a basic Lisp knowledge could read it and know how and why.
02:41.52starseekerIn the end Axiom will probably use a more flexible system, but it was a good exercise ;-)
02:42.00MaloeranPerhaps it's just me, but I find it faster and clearer to read the actual source code than most typical low-level documentation found within the source
02:42.29MaloeranIt seems to mostly get in the way, taking screen space... until you run a script to strip all comments out
02:43.32starseekerDepending on the goal and context this is true.  One of the most able Axiom developers (able to read straight code) ended up forking the code base to avoid the drive towards literate programming
02:43.38louipcliteral programming probably does a better job there the way it sounds
02:43.40starseeker(among other reasons)
02:44.09starseekerMathematics has a way of creating maximally confusing code, I think ;-)
02:45.39louipclooks like it's just a different way to write code actually might be less verbose than the lower level stuff...
02:45.43starseekermore complex literate tools that are tightly integrated with a compiler can do tricks like reporting where in the document to find code that uses any particular code - a densely hyperlinked document.
02:46.20starseekerI think Knuth's tools were like that, but the problem with those tools is they become specific to one language.
02:46.22louipcprint Hello there
02:46.39louipcrather than printf("Hello there");
02:47.19starseekerNo, in that case the grammar for your first part would end up being so long the space saved wouldn't pay for itself ;-)
02:47.31MaloeranI still prefer to see logic presented in code rather than in a maths form, but... that's just a matter of experience with code algorithms versus maths
02:48.10starseekerThat's quite true.  Axiom is a special case, as it is a computer algebra system - many of its primary contributors would (hopefully) be mathematicians first and coders second
02:48.23starseekerin such a case, making the code close to the mathematics is logical
02:48.42MaloeranRight, makes sense
02:49.58starseekerAlso, if Axiom manages to outlive all of its original developers, it may someday be critical to survival for less skilled coders to be able to understand it and work with it
02:50.19starseekerThat's my idealistic side showing ;-)
02:50.47louipcless skilled will get more skilled if they're determined enough :D
03:03.07starseekernight all ;-)
03:17.04``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1599962  that's walking distance from where I used to live in missouri O.o
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14:32.44MinuteElectronGood afternoon all.
14:32.58MinuteElectronIt appears my connection troubles have evaporated. :)
14:35.01brlcadsweet
14:36.27``Erikbrlcad, staying in for lunch?
14:51.45MinuteElectron``Erik: You work in the same office as brlcad?
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14:54.45MaloeranThey do, yes
14:55.05MinuteElectronOoh, cool.
14:55.37``Eriksame building, same team... not the same physical office, though :)
14:56.58MinuteElectronOh, I see.
14:57.25MinuteElectron...
15:20.43``Erikwe have 2-3 person offices, not a cube farm... :)
15:21.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/ (364 files in 43 dirs): removed trailing whitespace
15:22.04MinuteElectron``Erik: So you get paid to do this?
15:22.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/ (1102 files in 65 dirs): removed trailing whitespace
15:22.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (538 files in 44 dirs): removed trailing whitespace
15:22.50``Erikyup
15:23.07MinuteElectronnice
15:23.15``Erik*shrug* it's a yob
15:23.27MinuteElectronyob?
15:23.30``Erikjob
15:23.30``Erik:D
15:23.35MinuteElectronoh, right.
15:23.36``Erikmehican style O.o
15:42.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: use AM_LDFLAGS instead of user-settable LDFLAGS
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17:32.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g2asc.c: eliminate trailing whitespace in g2asc output
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17:44.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): change c++/c99 "//" comments to more portable c89 /* */ comments
17:47.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/dm_xvars.h: change c++/c99 "//" comments to more portable c89 /* */ comments
17:51.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/text.tcl:
17:51.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: Greenwald identified a bug in tab expansion. I could not reproduce the segfault
17:51.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: that he saw, but did add a check for an open database before attempting
17:51.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: object expansion, and a check for a valid path prior to expansion.
17:52.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: pad out multi-line and doxygen comments
18:09.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/htester.c: cast to fix incompatible pointer warning
18:11.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: change various ints and longs to size_t for pointer/offset stuff
18:16.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: need common.h for config.h defines
18:16.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/sig/coswin.c: include stdlib.h for malloc()
18:24.26``Erik<PROTECTED>
18:24.42``Erikminute... about?
18:25.24MinuteElectronWho you work for :D
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18:25.54``Erikarmy research lab
18:26.23MinuteElectronAnd does john work at the same place as erik. And if so is erik a lower ranking officer than erik (you get refered to as 'Greenwald' XD)
18:26.33``Erikheh
18:26.34MinuteElectronI ask too many qquestions.
18:26.53MinuteElectronAnd does brlc ad work at the same place as erik and john.
18:27.17``Erikkinda
18:27.24MinuteElectronheh
18:27.46``Erikjohn is technically on a different team... one I used to be on... there was a split, I went on the sucky side of it, but I moved back to the side that does cad
18:28.26``Erikbut all of johns BRL-CAD contributions these days are donated work in his spare time, he's not getting paid for it and the pointy hairs can go fuck themselves if they dont' like what he's doing :D
18:28.37MinuteElectronheh
18:57.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor cleanup
19:22.09brlcadseveral of the files also necessarily had dos line endings, did you check that they weren't "fixed"?
19:29.06brlcadgah, and your tclIndex files are wrong
19:31.36``Erikeh?
19:31.45brlcad``Erik: you need to fix/revert the tclIndex file changes .. for whatever reason, the system you committed from is blowing most of the indices away
19:32.21``Erikhrmmm
19:33.00brlcadlooks like all of the incr tcl indices are gone
19:33.05``Erikhrmmm, musta missed those when skimming the diff
19:34.41brlcadthere's not really any point to "cleaning up" the src/other files.. just makes merging an incremental update harder, their code their mess
19:35.26``Erikyeah *shrug* it was a one-liner, it walked into other, updating in other just blows away what is there, so'z I didn't worry about it :/
19:35.27brlcadthat's why there was a ton in src/other, but not much in the rest of the package .. there's a ws script that does the cleanup/exclusions automatically
19:36.15brlcadthat's my point, it's not always a blow-away update .. sometimes it's a patch applied
19:36.19brlcadthat just causes conflicts
19:36.58``Erikheh, and admin -o will probably mess up the cvs2svn script?
19:37.15brlcadnah, don't admin it
19:37.21brlcadit's fine .. just for "next time"
19:37.50``ErikI mean the tclIndex stuff atm
19:42.25brlcadhm, i'd just revert cleanly
19:42.47brlcadala cvs revert -j 1.3 -j 1.2 tclIndex.tcl, etc..
19:43.07brlcadused to have a script that got the last revision, and reverted to the previous .. but pretty quick to do by hand too
19:43.26``Erik'revert'? O.o
19:43.51``Erikmerge?
19:43.54brlcadhm?
19:44.05``Erikrevert isn't a cvs command... are ya thinkin' svn?
19:44.16brlcadoh, typo
19:44.18brlcadupdate
19:44.28brlcadsvn has revert
19:44.50brlcadcvs update, join from 1.3 to 1.2
19:45.10brlcadi.e., revert back one (presuming 1.3 was head rev)
19:45.12``Erik<-- was doing 'cvs -z3 update -pr 1.2 tclIndex > tclIndex', the merge update seems to do the samet hing
19:46.49brlcadah, hm .. I'd be afraid of cvs dying on the pipe wiping out the file it was reading from
19:46.58brlcadat least for some older versions
19:47.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (7 files in 7 dirs): re-add indices accidently clobbered when removing trailing whitespace. My bad.
19:47.35brlcads/pipe/output redir/
19:47.37``Erikheh, since it's a reversion, it doesn't matter... if the pipe craps itself, run it again, it's still in the repo
19:47.49``Erikstream, whatever
19:56.11``Erikprobably just drift from printing floating point numbers
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20:07.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (17 files in 11 dirs):
20:07.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: The c89 headers are all fair game since it's been a requirement since the move
20:07.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: to ANSI c89 compliance. So.. remove the HAVE_STDLIB_H checks and just use the
20:07.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: header. The headers <complex.h>, <fenv.h>, <inttypes.h>, <stdbool.h>,
20:07.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: <stdint.h>, and <tgmath.h> were added with C99 and still need to be checked.
20:07.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: There are several other c89 headers that we could just use, though, that are
20:07.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: still being checked.
20:08.48brlcad``Erik: yeah, that's a nasty tolerance bug .. kudos if you figure out why :)
20:09.48brlcadit probably is just drift, but when you push it through again, you're pushing through a v5 asc which has more digits than the v4 it started from so it shouldn't be different
20:13.23iraytraceLooks like a commit storm in the logs today ;0)
20:17.55brlcadall hail the 'ws' commits
20:20.47``Erikbut I got a bunch of non-ws commits in, too
21:44.28poolio_hmm, quite off topic but I was wondering if any of you guys knew of some sort of dynamics simulator...like an aerodynamics simulator where i could throw in an object and get something like a drag coefficient back
21:44.51brlcader, the flight simulator has things for that
21:44.56brlcads/er/hmm/
21:45.28brlcadhttp://www.flightgear.org/
21:45.56brlcadnot sure if you could do a single wing, but it does the computations and you can feed custom geometry
21:57.03poolio_hmm, thanks
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23:05.38``Erikum
23:05.48``Erikflightgear has a couple coarse emulation models
23:05.57``Erikthat require experiemental details entered
23:06.03``Erikjsim and uhhh something else
23:06.20``Erikxplane uses 'blade theory' to generate force sums, there're plenty of papers on the idea
23:09.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: might as well also list the c89 and c95 headers
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23:18.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/wdb_obj.c mged/ged.c): don't bother checking for errno.h, it's c89
23:31.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/mged/ged.c): don't check for errno.h, we can assume at least c89 compliance
23:41.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (6 files in 5 dirs): math.h and float.h are also fair game, c89 baby
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070915

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070915

00:15.51``Erikwhat about non-complient c89 compilers? ;(
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03:00.47brlcadthe can die in their own obsolescense .. the code has to keep moving forward
03:02.14brlcadthat was an astounding 18 years ago, way past time
03:03.14brlcadit'd be easier to get a modern compiler to work under cross-compilation than it would be to keep the baggage of the ancient compilers indefinitely
03:07.43brlcadc89 conformance was adopted like 3 years ago anyways, just getting around to those particular edits .. there's *plenty* of other stuff in the code that requires c89
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03:23.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltConfig.h:
03:23.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: since we don't call blt's configure, make sure it knows that the c89 headers are
03:23.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: presumed. this is intentionally here and not in the top-level configure to
03:23.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: prevent repropagation of their use in the rest of the code. blt should be a
03:23.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: subconfigure.
03:27.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (8 files in 6 dirs): limits.h, locale.h, setjmp.g, and signal.h now all assumed as well as part of ongoing c89 migration.
03:28.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/common.h: oops, but the genie back in the bottle. these don't need to go here.
03:29.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't need the define for blt now that it defines what it needs in its own config header
03:42.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 5 dirs): no longer need to conditionally check for time.h (or stddef.h) prior to use per c89
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16:23.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (475 files in 49 dirs):
16:23.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: more c89 embracing. c89 provides string.h for all of the various str*() and
16:23.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: mem*() functions, so remove the check for its presence. there is still likely
16:23.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: to be work required for strict c89 conformance for the various bsd strings.h
16:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: functions that may be in use.
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17:29.32brlcadhmm, can't cvs update
17:29.50brlcadanyone doing a commit at the moment or something?
17:36.21yukonbobwhat's shaking, brlcad?
17:38.03brlcadoh, I was coding and working on the website
17:38.26brlcadbut now cvs has some update problem, so that's stonewalled
17:40.05louipcI updated ok maybe 30 min ago
17:43.02brlcaddoes it work for you now?
17:43.34brlcadmaybe it's just sourceforge saying I need to eat something
17:43.46louipcseems like it did
17:43.56louipcdidn't say there was a lock on anything
17:44.04brlcadjust now?
17:44.42louipcyep
17:44.55brlcadah, are you on anonymous?
17:45.00louipcyeah
17:45.09brlcadmaybe that's why
17:47.36``Erikanonymous is on a different server, sf does an rsync or something to the anon servers
17:47.59brlcadthey unified them a year ago
17:47.59louipcoh
17:48.12louipchmm!
17:48.19brlcadbut the permissions are still different
17:48.23brlcadobviously
17:49.55louipcI just did checkout without problem
17:57.18poolio_same.
17:57.28brlcadhm, checkout fails for me across the board
17:57.36brlcadeven on separate hosts
18:00.24brlcadcan someone try to make a commit
18:01.14iraytraceHang on, let me update and I'll do a commit
18:03.30iraytraceIt's still thinking...
18:03.34iraytracedone
18:03.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh: just a commit test
18:04.09brlcadhrmph
18:04.29brlcadhere's what I'm seeing: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m12d73f4b
18:05.22iraytraceUm, that dir is the one I just did a commit into.  Was this before or after my commit finished?
18:05.51brlcadi get that for any dir
18:06.07iraytracewoah!
18:06.45iraytraceThat looks like a problem with your account.
18:06.49brlcadoh well, I'll let sf sort it out .. probably some funky cvs staleness issue related to commits earlier today specific to my user
18:06.52iraytraceHave you tried creating a new repository?
18:07.01brlcadyep, gives me perm denied on checkout
18:07.17iraytraceThat's def. an SF issue then
18:13.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/unix/Makefile.in: sgi make doesn't like the bad makefile syntax (line separator leading to an empty line)
18:13.27brlcadthat's even more weird.. I can commit, which still gives a permissions error, but it completes
20:03.41MinuteElectronbrlcad: Any luck with LDAP?
22:53.52``Erikneat, sf broke stuff good :D
22:54.07``Erikbe interesting to see the guts of how that broke O.o
23:17.37iraytraceIndeed, that would be neat.
23:17.51iraytraceProbably just a reboot of their LDAP if I had to guess
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070916

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070916

01:18.40*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
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02:04.02starseekerbrlcad, you on?
02:04.40louipcwhat's up
02:05.13starseekerQuestion on "pic"
02:05.20starseekerwhat is it?
02:05.32starseekerI'm not sure whether to add it to the USE flags or just turn it on
02:05.52starseekerI could dig, but it's quicker to ask here as it's getting late and I want to try a build ;-)
02:06.55starseekerThe gentoo ebuild policy has something about always using "pic" but I'm not sure if that's the same thing or not.
02:07.38louipcpic? I'm not sure
02:10.53brlcadstarseeker: it's not a big deal -- it's fine on or off
02:11.09starseekerbrlcad:  Cool - thanks :-)
02:11.10brlcadyou can get away with it on linux
02:11.57brlcadusing --with-pic should potentially cut about 40% off the compile-time
02:11.58starseekerWe might have a time if it with the ebuild - it sounds like the gentoo devs (some of them anyway) may not like the idea of internal versions of tcl/tk/etc
02:12.07starseekerworks for me! :-) :-)
02:13.02brlcadusing either --with or --without will cut the time -- the default is to compile both with and without PIC
02:13.23brlcadthat's a libtool behavior, to guarantee portable libraries
02:13.49louipcoh wow I should use that then... it takes forever for me to compile
02:15.47starseekerbrlcad:  Looking at other ebuilds, I am seeing behavior where the prefix is being set as  --prefix=${D}/usr/program in order to let portage do its thing of building in a temp directory and then do a final copy the install dir.  Will this be a problem for any of the binaries?
02:16.27brlcadpotentially, not clear
02:16.49starseekerOK.  Nothing like trying :-)
02:16.52brlcadtools that have to find resources rely on the prefix-path as a search-path base for finding data resources
02:17.10brlcadthey'll also search based on where the binary is, so it "should" still find what it needs
02:17.15brlcadif mged works, then it's fine
02:17.16louipcI used DESTDIR to install to a directory that I can then use to tar up the pkg
02:17.48brlcadDESTDIR is fine, because that's during make .. the path is already fixed during configure
02:17.52louipcyep
02:18.45starseekerhang on, phone...
02:46.50louipcdang cvs update doesn't pull in new directories!
02:46.59starseekerisn't that fun?
02:49.04louipcI wouldn't care about switching the world, only the projects I'd develop in. That's possible
02:52.29louipchaha cvs can't delete directories either
03:28.00*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
03:30.42starseekerMe mutters under his breath and tries again to create a patch that patch will accept...
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03:53.43louipcuh!
03:55.57starseekerOK, after some arm twisting one of the guys on gentoo-dev-help conceded that a non-binary in /opt seemed a bit dubious but to try it if it was the simplest thing.
03:59.05louipcgentoo has no provisions for mondo packages that have their own libs?
03:59.19louipcI know tons of java pkgs re package java libs
03:59.49starseekerThe gentoo philosophy is usually to "fix" the package so it can use system libs.
04:01.22louipcyeah that's ideal but is not always that possible.
04:02.00starseekerYes.  Unfortunately convincing folks that BRL-CAD is worth the exception may take a little arm twisting.
04:02.42louipcwell BRL-CAD could always host the ebuild :D
04:02.53starseekerI guess if we have to ;-)
04:03.05louipcaren't there any rogue gentoo repos out there?
04:03.16starseekerOh sure, there's even one specific to science packages
04:03.24starseekerbut that wouldn't be in the "official" gentoo
04:03.28brlcadthere's only a few options -- you either backport to 8.4 with a patchset, use 8.5*whatever* that we provide, use an 8.5* already in gentoo, or wait for 8.5 final
04:03.31louipcI know there are some portage tools other than 'emerge' for building/installing
04:03.53starseekerUsually the thing to do is use overlays
04:04.06louipcoh yeah I heard about that too
04:04.17starseekerbrlcad:  I think we should be OK in opt - we'll just pretend we're a really hard to install binary ;-)
04:04.36brlcadwe can't install into /usr regardless
04:04.47brlcadthere are conflicts that cannot be changed
04:05.02starseekerRight.  IIRC, there are at least one or two cases where there are name conflicts with libraries having different purposes?
04:05.25brlcadthere's more than two, although some are more obscure than others
04:05.48starseekerI'm going to attempt a "proper" /opt ebuild with the /etc settings and everything.  Will /opt be OK for the Army's modules?
04:05.55brlcadall of our libs predate the ones we conflict with but that doesn't make the conflict any less problematic
04:06.06starseekerRight :-)
04:07.03starseekerStill building, no failures yet... it's like waiting for the other shoe to drop ;-)
04:07.08brlcadlibbu, libbn, librt are the core conflicting ones that come to mind, they're part of brl-cad's geometric core and for various integration reasons are not likely to ever change, not that we'd want to change them
04:08.16starseekerRight.
04:09.06brlcadlibbn conflicts with an internal library in OpenSSL iirc; librt conflicts with a deprecated real-time linux kernel library
04:09.22brlcadforget what libbu conflicts with, and google isn't helping -- that one was probably minor
04:09.31brlcadlibrt is the biggie, though
04:09.52brlcadthat's are most important library and it conflicts with a kernel library
04:09.54starseekerI can probably check my revdep-rebuild report - that was pretty comprehensive, if at bit redundant...
04:10.27brlcadthe library is fortunately "dead" and slowly being removed, so in 5-10 years it won't be a problem, but in the meantime it is
04:11.23brlcadlibbn's probably something we possibly could sort out with the openssh folks, but it's still daunting when there are user-space binaries to sort out too
04:11.38brlcadsince after-all, we could always just install libs into /usr/lib/brlcad/.
04:11.44starseekerRight.
04:12.23starseekerThat may be a trick even in /opt - we can append /opt/brlcad/bin to the path but the other binaries will take precedence
04:12.49brlcadthere are several user binaries that conflict, but most of those can be readily changed/renamed on our part (e.g. the 'wall' command that generates a geometric wall conflicts with the old "write a message to all users" command")
04:13.18brlcadi wouldn't care if the other binaries took precendence
04:13.34brlcadusers that really care will find out pretty quickly if they really need that tool (unlikely)
04:13.47starseekerOK - I think that has to do with the ordering of the directories in the $PATH variable.
04:13.51brlcadthere's only a handful, and last I checked they were pretty minor
04:13.55starseekerGentoo will probably do the right thing by default
04:14.02louipcenigma hehe
04:14.25starseekerWell the build completed successfully, but the install command didn't like something.
04:14.36starseekertrying again without the $D prefix...
04:15.20brlcadif we really wanted to get fancy, brl-cad is really a suite of tools and would be broken up into somewhere between a dozen to a couple hundred different ebuilds
04:16.04starseekerHehe.  I doubt that would be worth it for quite a while - if people start using regularly a subset of BRL-CAD that might make sense.
04:16.16brlcade.g. brl-cad's rt ray-tracer, mged modeler, image manipulators, ttcp, framebuffer tools, benchmark suite, archer modeler, etc etc
04:16.18louipcI know some people who've done that with other packages
04:16.28brlcadstarseeker: yep, I quite agree
04:16.29louipclike perl CPAN
04:16.39starseekerCPAN is a headache
04:16.58louipca dozen would be OK though
04:17.05starseekerLisp has those problems too - I maintain my own asdf archive of lisp libraries
04:17.37brlcadttcp is a good example, though -- it's a tool that's pretty brief, probably already in ebuild, yet technically we have the sources to it
04:17.53brlcadit's just one of the 405 or so
04:18.55starseekerThat might be worth doing at some point.  Just curious - was the main purpose of including these libraries to insulate BRL-CAD from changes which might impact the correctness of the program, or to make sure it built successfully on a variety of targets?
04:19.07brlcadyep, http://gentoo-portage.com/net-analyzer/ttcp/
04:20.18brlcadstarseeker: primarily because not every platform we support and build on has a convenient package management system, it's for user-convenience
04:20.47starseekerAh.
04:20.57brlcadreduces support headaches substantially, and really just makes compilation go a whole lot smoother when you don't have to worry about getting X, Y, Z, etc before being able to build
04:21.04starseekerVery true.
04:21.20brlcadwe merely just do the download for you, whether it uses it or not is entirely up to build settings and configuration
04:21.56starseekerOne possibility I've seen before - if you have two tarballs - one with BRL-CAD, and one with supporting libraries, you can opt either to expand just brlcad or brlcad and brlcad-support to cover the two cases.
04:22.34brlcadi mean if you know it's required, and you're giving someone your code .. it seems utterly absurd to me that they have to go hunting all over the net for those required dependencies, have to deal with the various headaches of getting that dependency to build and do so *recursively*
04:23.02brlcadit puts some burden on our devs to make sure we bundle it cleanly and have the proper configure tests, but we generally do that once
04:23.31brlcadand for the folks that *do* have a package management system, it still "just works" and can be all disabled
04:23.41louipcwell it's not so bad with smaller pkgs with only 1 or 2 deps :D
04:24.30brlcadeven bigger packages have the problem too though, like building gnome by hand, for example .. that's just utter hell
04:25.06louipcooh gnucash! hahah
04:25.23starseekerOr best of all, mplayer
04:25.24brlcadstarseeker: i've seen that with the two-packages.. but what's the point?  it's just a few megs of disk space and would require additional "are the files there" checks
04:26.01starseekerbrlcad:  My take on it is the same - stick 'em in and use 'em if needed.  It seems to bug some people, but I don't really think it's a big deal in this day and age.
04:26.28brlcadi'm continually amazed by how many people are bothered just that the files are 'there' ..
04:26.48starseekermaybe someone is trying to get BRL-CAD onto an embedded system ;-)
04:26.49louipcyeah people have more disk space and bandwidth these days
04:27.17brlcadthe package requires over a GB to compile under most configurations, if you're worried about the 20MB or so that the unused dependencies take up, you've got way bigger problems
04:28.36starseekerHeh - an embedded CAD system.  Finally, something worse than Emacs to embed
04:28.57brlcadmost of our tools would work with exceptionally limited resources, I think even classic mged only requires a couple MB at most then it just limits the size of the model you can load
04:29.38starseekerThat would be great, but what would we do for a text editor? :-P
04:30.08starseekerActually, I think Emacs is long overdue for a cleanup and re-factoring.
04:30.37brlcadyou could have an mged major mode for geometry editing, a g-file major mode for traversing geometry files, hook into all the various ray-tracers just the same, maybe even overlay a framebuffer if emacs is running under X
04:31.00starseekerHmm.
04:31.08louipcstarseeker: haha that would be a job wouldn't it?
04:31.27louipcwell you could get a team of 3 people to live to 100
04:31.28starseekerWait, are we talking about an Emacs mode or porting BRL-CAD to emacs?
04:31.45louipcemacs re-factoring?
04:31.51starseekerAh :-)
04:31.55brlcadwhat's the difference, everything is a mode under the hood to emacs
04:32.39starseekerbrlcad:  True
04:32.56starseekerer s/has has/has had
04:33.03starseekerquick, to the caffeine!
04:33.16brlcadi mean there's a ton of wrapper/glue code you'd have, but it would all boil down to a handful of major and minor modes to the user
04:33.39brlcadnot even that complicated really, mged is pretty well suited
04:34.14brlcadwould sort of be like having dired-mode and gdb-mode
04:34.25brlcadjust instead g-mode and mged-mode
04:35.12starseekerBoy would that ever be wild.
04:35.47brlcadwould be a great little project for some student
04:35.56starseekerIndeed.
04:36.07brlcadi'd pay for that myself if someone was motivated :)
04:36.17starseekerHehe.  
04:36.53brlcadheh no
04:37.06starseekerAt least it's using GTK now.
04:37.07brlcadi meant personally pay :)
04:37.11starseekerAh :-)
04:37.45starseekerMaybe it was just me but between open-motif, lesstif, and Emacs there always seemed to be a little bit of an argument going on...
04:37.51brlcadthere are 'other priorities' at yonder funding agency that are often not the same as those of the project at large or the open source or solid modeling communities
04:38.00brlcadeveryone has their own needs that they want fulfilled
04:38.02starseekerMakes sense :-)
04:40.13brlcadthe gui is our biggest problem
04:40.38starseekerHehe - gentoo spit out a "QA" notice...
04:40.39brlcadi'm trying to make a change there, but there are several pieces of the puzzle that are involved
04:40.47starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:40.47starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:40.47starseeker<PROTECTED>
04:40.47starseekershowshot.c:122: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ?strlen?
04:40.54starseekerbrlcad:  I can imagine.
04:41.01starseekerAxiom has similar problems.
04:41.49brlcadhm, that's odd -- it's not implicit -- it includes string.h
04:42.55brlcadstrcpy is c89, it better
04:43.13starseekercyapp@localhost ~ $ grep strcpy /usr/include/string.h
04:43.14starseekerextern char *strcpy (char *__restrict __dest, __const char *__restrict __src)
04:43.29starseekerHuh.  Weird.
04:43.45brlcadwhat's your #include section at the top look like?
04:44.07starseekeryou mean on showshot.c?
04:44.09brlcadyeah
04:44.42starseekerwhich directory is it in?
04:44.52brlcadsrc/nirt/shotshot.c
04:44.56brlcader, showshot
04:45.23starseeker#ifndef lint
04:45.23starseekerstatic const char RCSid[] = "$Header: /cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c,v 14.13 2007/05/12 22:26:57 brlcad Exp $";
04:45.23starseeker#endif
04:45.24starseeker#include <stdio.h>
04:45.24starseeker#include <stdlib.h>
04:45.26starseeker#include <ctype.h>
04:45.28starseeker#ifdef HAVE_STRING_H
04:45.30starseeker#  include <string.h>
04:45.32starseeker#else
04:45.34starseeker#  include <strings.h>
04:45.36starseeker#endif
04:45.38starseeker#ifdef HAVE_UNISTD_H
04:45.40starseeker# include <unistd.h>
04:45.42starseeker#endif
04:45.43brlcadgrep HAVE_STRING_H include/brlcad_config.h
04:45.44starseeker#include "machine.h"
04:45.46starseeker#include "vmath.h"
04:45.48starseeker#include "db.h"
04:45.50starseeker#include "bu.h"
04:46.17starseeker#define HAVE_STRING_H 1
04:47.00brlcadwell, that's right
04:47.16starseekerLet me do another build, and I'll script the whole thing
04:47.20brlcadso the file is included, but not getting the decl's for some reason
04:47.53starseekerIs there a way to pass tcl and tk flags not to include the info/man files?  They're showing up as collisions
04:47.58brlcadpastebin your string.h
04:48.22brlcadhm
04:49.12starseekerhttp://pastebin.com/dd3f7686
04:49.15brlcadwe actually just call the tcl/tk build system directly, and I don't see info/man options to actually not install them
04:49.35starseekermrf.  
04:50.20starseekerOh, wait - it might be itk and itcl
04:50.50louipcI think iwidgets has a manpage that conflicts with a tcl manpage
04:51.09brlcadoh?
04:51.23starseekerThere are a few complaints about dereferencing type-punned pointers - are they of any interest?
04:52.01brlcadfeel free to post up the entire build log
04:52.24brlcadreally depends what they're warnings about
04:52.27starseekerunless brl-cad saved it I'm afraid I didn't - I can re-do it, hang on..
04:52.36starseekerhttp://pastebin.com/m3677e600
04:52.42brlcadcurious that you're getting additional warnings, though -- are there flags being added?
04:52.52brlcadis gcc being used and, if not, what is?
04:52.57starseekerYes, gcc.
04:53.05starseekerlet's see - my default flags are...
04:53.24starseekerCFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe"
04:53.24starseekerCXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
04:53.38brlcadah, those are warnings in tcl/tk code
04:53.46starseekerOh :-)
04:53.53starseekersorry, should have looked closer
04:54.08brlcadi'm not really concerned about anything in src/other unless it's halting the build or conflicting something
04:54.17starseekermakes sense
04:54.31brlcadwe don't fix/edit their code anymore than we have to
04:54.54starseekerOK :-)
04:57.06brlcadin the past I actually tried, mostly out of a particular need and in-part just a desire to help clean up some of their issues
04:58.27brlcadbut found that it just wasn't worth it; you'd make a slew of build system fixes and it was nearly impossible to get them integrated (only a couple core folk generally understand a build system for things like tcl), or they were already fixed in their head, or they just didn't care, or some other update came that required clobbering everything
04:59.33brlcaddidn't take long to learn that we just need to leave the deps alone -- integrate them as needed so that they "just work" when compiling as a dep but if they fail, they fail -- the user can always try to compile them directly themselves like they'd have to do otherwise
05:00.02starseekerYep
05:00.59brlcadahh, my cvs problems seem to have just solved itself
05:02.40starseekerI love it when problems do that
05:05.57brlcadi can only imagine that sf.net has a cron job that walks all of the projects looking for common cleanup-issues like stale locks, bad permissions, and other support-inducing issues that would be a burden
05:09.30starseekerI would think that keeps someone on their support staff sane ;-)
05:15.52starseekerOK, I need to re-do the build and provide a patch to disable the man files in the Makefile, but first sleep :-)
06:51.09yukonbob...and hits hay
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09:51.00MinuteElectronOh, shit.
09:51.11MinuteElectronbrlcad: Did you have an ldap server running?
09:57.34MinuteElectronI am such an imbasele.
10:00.44MinuteElectronYeah, I mucked up bad this time.
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12:19.05``Erikhum
12:19.08``Erikho hum
12:19.16``Erikhum, ho, hum!
13:39.37starseekerYES
13:39.40starseekerit worked
13:39.49starseekermged starts
13:59.39``Erikusing gentoo's port ripoff build system?
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14:48.39starseeker``Erik:  You mean the FreeBSD rippoff?  yep :-)
14:50.26starseekerI think it worked...
14:50.58starseekerYep.  Just need to do source /etc/profile to update the shell
14:51.27starseekerOK.  Next and maybe last step is to go over the build log for any problems, but first laundry...
15:10.39starseekerbrlcad:  Are the files in src/tclscripts part of BRL-CAD or are they external?
15:16.31louipcso what BSD is a Unix rip off and so on and so on
15:18.23louipcstarseeker: archer is part of BRL-CAD
15:18.53starseekerlouipc:  Ah.  I'm seeing a few compiler warnings, but I don't guess they are serious enough to bother about now.
15:19.05starseekermost are tcl and friends, a few might be in BRL-CAD
15:19.36starseekerWOOOOO-HOOOOOO :-).  It looks like the ebuild is functioning :)
15:19.44louipchurrah
15:19.45``Erikanything in src/other we tend to ignore
15:20.06starseekerYes, I was looking for warnings not in src/other.  Saw a few, but no big deal
15:20.14``Erikand a lot of the other stuff has been fixed in cvs... sometimes I get a hair up my butt about those :)
15:20.19starseeker:-)
15:20.48louipchair up your butt?? how queer
15:20.52``Erikunfortunately, tcl precludes the use of CFLAGS="-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic" :(
15:59.22starseekerhumph - it only works if the tcl and tk patches are in different files.  I wonder why that is
16:09.35brlcadstarseeker: they are part of brl-cad, the tclscripts are required by mged and loaded on start-up (mged finds them via a search path ordering)
16:10.09brlcadarcher also uses the tclscripts as well (in part because it effectively has an embedded mged in it)
16:13.13brlcadminute: no big deal -- killing the process fortunately didn't do any harm :)
16:13.45``ErikI need to buy a new fan, heh
16:14.13brlcadminute: also think you have/had something wrong in the config file: daemon: listen URL "/var/db/openldap-slurp/slapd.conf" parse error=3
16:16.58brlcadminute: also, you did/do have sudo to run the slapd/slurpd startup scripts in /usr/local/etc/rc.d -- that would have been how to restart it
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19:54.27minutebrlcad: Thank you, sorry again.
20:02.46minutebrlcad: I hope you don't mind me installing phpldapadmin to my personal webspace. I am a total n00b at this and it would help a lot.
20:08.37starseekerbrlcad:  Where do I find a copy of the BSD Documentation License (BDL?)  
20:21.57brlcaddoc/legal
20:25.49starseekerThanks :-)
20:28.05starseekerOne think I don't have yet is the installation of all the doc files (pdf, txt, etc) into the /opt tree.  Hmm...
20:29.39starseekerbrlcad:  Is there a list of "files that should go into /opt/brlcad/doc" (or I guess /usr/share/doc/brlcad would do in this case...)
20:36.19starseekerOh, nevermind, I see it in /usr/share.
20:41.02minuteOh, this is crazy.
20:41.55minutebrlcad: Is there any reason a site at ~MinuteElectron/ldap/htdocs/cmd.php would give me a 403 forbidden error?
20:48.19minuteOk, I need a break.
21:10.46starseekerbrlcad:  When I open the cups.g example in mged, nothing shows in the window - is this expected?
21:15.41louipcif you start mged then open it yeah
21:16.17louipcyou can try `mged cups.g` that should display and open
21:17.01louipcotherwise you issue a command to draw the geometry (which I forgot)
21:17.18louipcuse ls to list different components of the model
21:23.52louipcstarseeker: aha usually `draw all`
21:24.30starseekerhmm - all not found
21:24.56louipcwhere's cups.g from?
21:25.08starseekerit's in the manual
21:25.13starseekeris there something better to test with?
21:25.34louipcoh it's a model you created?
21:25.39starseekerno
21:25.43starseekerhang on...
21:25.46``Erikheh
21:25.52starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:26.02``Erik'tops'  is a good command, then when you see what you want, you can do an 'e'
21:26.17``Eriklike, if tops tells you that "all.g" exists, do "e all.g"
21:26.40starseekermged> tops
21:26.41starseekercup.r/R             cup_out.r/R         eto_sub.r/R         mug.r/R
21:26.41starseekercup_in.r/R          eto.r/R             handle.r/R
21:26.57louipcprobably cup.r/R
21:27.27starseekerdraw cup.r/R
21:27.27starseekerdb_lookup(R) failed: R does not exist
21:27.27starseekerdb_string_to_path() of 'cup.r/R' failed on 'R'
21:27.27starseekerdb_walk_tree: warning - cup.r/R not found.
21:27.27starseekermged>  
21:27.39louipcshare/brlcad/7.10.2/db maybe
21:29.00louipcactually you should be able to just do `draw cup`
21:29.38starseekermged> draw cup
21:29.38starseekerbn_mat_ck(cyl):  bad matrix, does not preserve axis perpendicularity.
21:29.38starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:29.38starseekerMATRIX bn_mat_ck() bad matrix:
21:29.39starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:29.41starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:29.45starseekerdb_recurse(cyl):  matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity.
21:29.47starseekerMATRIX bad matrix:
21:29.49starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:29.57starseekerbn_mat_ck(inside):  bad matrix, does not preserve axis perpendicularity.
21:29.59starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:30.00louipcspam!
21:30.01starseekerMATRIX bn_mat_ck() bad matrix:
21:30.05starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:30.13starseekerdb_recurse(inside):  matrix does not preserve axis perpendicularity.
21:30.15starseekerMATRIX bad matrix:
21:30.17starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:30.23starseeker<PROTECTED>
21:30.25starseekerERROR: db_walk_dispatcher() region 0 started with no state
21:30.27starseekermged>
21:30.29starseekeroh, sorry
21:30.31starseekermy bad
21:30.35starseekerbut drawing didn't show
21:30.51louipcI tried too I think there's something wrong with that model..
21:31.13brlcadtype dbversion
21:31.13starseekerwill mged work loading the asc files?
21:31.13louipctry one in share/brlcad/7.10.2/db
21:31.23brlcadthat looks like a v4
21:31.28starseekerI am - cpu is crunching like crazy ;-)
21:31.34louipcbrlcad: yep
21:31.53starseekerbrlcad:  Well, I uploaded all the ebuild goodies to the bug report.
21:32.07starseekerbrlcad:  Now we'll see how intense the flaming is ;-)
21:32.27brlcadgah, who put a v4 .g into cvs
21:32.30starseekererm - what does Detached mean?
21:32.33louipcnot me
21:33.41brlcadstarseeker, that cup.g is useless to you, the v4 files are platform-specific .. every time I think we've gotten rid of them, one pops up somewhere
21:33.48starseekerAh :-)
21:33.50brlcadit has to be converted to a v5 on the same platform that made it
21:34.15brlcadeither way, that's a useless/boring .g .. pick one of the other ones that were installed in the db dir
21:34.15louipc:D
21:34.29louipctry the barbie toy jeep!
21:34.33starseekerIs there one that has a hope of loading in under an hour?
21:34.50louipcstarseeker: what are you running man?
21:35.09starseekerlgt-test was chomping cpu like nobody's business, and I'm a dual P4
21:35.25starseekerOK, toyjeep came up - let's try drawing it...
21:35.42louipcI'm on a pIII 866MHz and that loaded instantly pretty much
21:35.57starseekertoyjeep did, except I still don't see anything
21:36.02louipcdraw all
21:36.14starseekerall does not exist
21:36.16starseekergrr.
21:36.50brlcadtops
21:37.01brlcadthat lists the top-level geometry
21:37.05brlcadthen e one of them
21:37.11brlcade == draw
21:37.37starseekerOK, I did open on toyjeep.asc
21:37.44louipcopendb
21:37.46brlcadyou can't open .asc files, open the .g
21:38.18brlcadyou could import an .asc, but you'd still have to open a .g first to import it into
21:38.24starseekerI'm in brlcad-7.10.2/db and I'm only seeing .asc files
21:38.39louipchmm
21:39.07brlcadthen either you selected the wrong file menu option (import) or you're missing the binary files that would have been generated during compilation
21:39.23louipc:(
21:39.37starseekerone sec...
21:39.43louipcstarseeker: hehe
21:39.53starseekerTHERE they are
21:39.57louipcSWEET
21:40.11starseekerbingo
21:40.13starseekersorry guys
21:40.16brlcadah
21:40.33starseekerI have a few directories left over from when I was looking at what had to be patched.
21:41.26louipclgt-test.g opened pretty much instantly for me :P
21:42.01brlcadthere's no .g we provide that should not open instantly
21:42.23starseekerThe .g files look fine - it didn't like getting handed the raw asc file though ;-)
21:42.24brlcadeven massive 1GB models should pretty much open instantly
21:42.34louipcoooh
21:44.08starseekerYep, working like a charm now.
21:44.43starseekerInstalled in opt from an ebuild, environment variables seem to be working, license file where it should be... life is good :-)
21:45.01louipccongrats
21:45.09starseekerThanks :-)
21:45.44starseekerReally y'all did all the hard work - it was just a question of making sure all the options are set correctly by the system.
21:46.17``Erikprep takes ~40s on a ~1g file (almost all bot, if nto all)
21:46.18starseekerNow if the Gentoo devs just don't get a bee in their bonnet again about the use of /opt...
21:47.48brlcadprep isn't the same as opening the file, that's just a quick file scan
21:48.26starseekerDon't worry guys - I just missed the part that the db files were compiled in the build rather than being present beforehand.
21:48.48starseekerIt's working like a charm now :-)
21:48.50brlcadi've seen the file i/o over nfs make it take longer than usual, but that's specific to an nfs setup
21:49.04brlcadCIA-4: poke
21:50.12starseekerSo, what do we sub in for cups.g in the manual?
21:51.14brlcadi already fixed it, it's a v5 now
21:51.38brlcadi wouldn't suggest using that manual regardless, the ones on the website are better
21:52.03starseekerah :-)
21:52.17starseekerYou mean the pdf manuals?
21:52.25brlcadyes
21:52.39starseekerOK, sounds good
21:52.58starseekerI was curious about those, actually - do they exist only as pdfs?
21:54.44starseekerIf they're LaTeX, perhaps they too could be rendered into html and replace the current html manual?
21:54.45brlcadno, they're available in another equally useless format
21:54.50starseekerlol
21:55.33brlcadthe goal is actually to turn them into docbook, then stash them into the repository, keep them up to date and auto-generate pdf, html, txt
21:55.44starseekerCool.
21:56.00brlcada couple folks started on this (yet again) a couple weeks ago, but they seemingly have disappeared
21:56.36louipcmaybe I should poke the poppler people to add docbook conversion
21:56.36starseekerWell, if the ebuild gets accepted that sounds like a good #2 task, assuming I won't stomp on any toes
21:56.51louipcright now you can convert to some other weird xml format
21:57.08starseekerHow exacting are the formatting requirements?
21:57.25starseekerDo we need to precisely duplicate the visual style of the current versions?
21:57.50brlcadgetting the straight-up conversion isn't too hard -- it's mostly what's the best way to automate the task given it's about 800 pages or so with images
21:57.55brlcadoh, heck no
21:58.09brlcadbut it should maintain the content (with images)
21:58.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/mged/cup.g: don't put a v4 into the repository. if we must stash .g files, then at least stash a v5 so that it's not platform-specific. thanks to starseeker for pointing out the problem.
21:58.26brlcadthat's what docbook is all about, just the structure, no presentation element
21:58.36brlcadabout time CIA-4
21:59.02starseekerOK.
22:00.25louipcstarseeker: pdfimages in poppler will do it...
22:00.38starseekerthat's a help :-)
22:01.11starseekeroh good, gentoo has poppler in portage...
22:01.28louipclooks like they got rid of that weird xml conversion
22:02.02louipcoh maybe not
22:03.33minutebrlcad: Qucikee: does 'cmd.php' mean anything to you?
22:04.35brlcadhmm
22:05.15brlcadnot immediately, should it?
22:05.54minute<PROTECTED>
22:06.10brlcadstarseeker: if you're really interested in working on it, you'd probably have a lot easier success working with the original ms word documents, converting to some tagged format or even importing to something else (like OO or WP) that might export docbook, then just dealing with cleanup
22:06.26brlcadminute: AAH
22:06.32brlcadyes, now it means a whole lot more
22:06.35starseekerWord?  ick.  Yes, that would be easier.
22:06.47brlcadlike I said,.. useless :)
22:07.45louipcI tried to make an html with that doc via OOo but it turned out pretty bad :/
22:08.13brlcadminute: you're undoubtedly getting hit by the vulnerability detection modules in apache -- they perform hundreds of regex comparisons on every URL to prevent intrusion abuse -- cmd.php being an exceptionally common one with the right URL structure
22:09.15minutebrlcad: ffs
22:09.34minuteAnything I can do?
22:10.10brlcadyeah, that's it:  mod_security-message: Access denied with code 403. Pattern match "/(cse|cmd)\\.(c|dat|gif|jpe?g|jpeg|png|sh|txt|bmp|dat|txt|js|html?|tmp|php|asp)\\?" at REQUEST_URI [severity "EMER
22:10.14brlcadGENCY"]
22:10.35brlcadrename the file? :)
22:10.40minuteThat won't work.
22:11.37minuteSince it is included in another file.
22:12.08minuteand it completely mucks up when I try to change the url
22:12.33minuteanyway, sleep for me now
22:12.43starseekerMrf.  The gentoo guys are appalled at the patching of files generated by configure and suggest tracking it back to the proper area...
22:12.48starseekergrrr
22:12.55starseekerCome on TCL, do it right...
22:13.14brlcadminute: good night
22:13.22brlcadi presume this is for myldapadmin?
22:13.26minuteyeah
22:13.30minutephpldapadmin
22:13.36brlcadk
22:13.50minutegoodnight
22:14.03brlcadgoodnight, i'm working on ldap more today too
22:14.11brlcadhopefully will make some good progress while you're sleeping ;)
22:14.21minute:) sounds good, thanks
22:14.40starseekerbrlcad:  Assuming the Gentoo devs are ever satisfied, I'd be glad to take a look at the Word -> docbook question
22:14.55brlcadi'd be glad too :)
22:15.40minuteI hope so :D
22:16.29brlcader, that was to starseeker :) .. i'm thrilled about the web work, and actually have been reading up on ldap for a while now :)
22:16.44brlcadstill soaking it all up
22:16.50minuteheh
22:17.19brlcadhad a mild diversion with 'adventure' last night.. would make for a nifty easter egg :)
22:17.49starseekerhehe
22:18.19starseekerOK, I'm starting to daydream about ousting TCL/TK and replacing it with QT4 - that's probably a good indication I should get supper.
22:18.32louipcindeed
22:18.33brlcadheh
22:21.16starseekerQT4 + VTK... mmmmm...
22:21.22starseekerAlright, food
23:00.28MaloeranAn apparently good and reliable IQ test for anyone looking for something to do : http://iqtest.dk/main.swf
23:00.46MaloeranUnlike most online tests, there are truly challenging questions near the end
23:03.13MaloeranAnd it's an interesting test, entirely based on logic and pattern recognition
23:15.25*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070917

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070917

00:16.36starseekeryukonbob:  You're a tcl/tk fan?
00:42.48louipcthey just need to fix the build environment
00:43.13louipcor something
00:48.45starseekerit's the stupid tcl/tk man page install
01:03.55brlcadMaloeran: hm, that is a pretty interesting test
01:04.18brlcadfun too.. a couple I wasn't so sure about though
01:05.19brlcadthat last one is pretty damn hard, not sure my reasoning on the pattern was sound, but I eventually found something that seemed to fit
01:07.14brlcadarbitrarily limiting the time seems a bit contrary to mensa-criteria, though .. most of their official tests have rather generous time
01:07.57poolio_The whole test is bogus...but possibly fun
01:09.22brlcadyeah, I've seen considerably harder mensa tests, but it does have a few with some pretty complex patterns that took a few minutes to be sure of
01:11.36poolio_yeah but it's also only testing a small part of what an actual IQ test would cover
01:12.27brlcadwould be fun to use that test on some coworkers.. see how they do
01:13.47brlcaddamnit, I really want to know what I missed :)
01:19.45starseekerbrlcad:  what version of autoconf does BRL-CAD need?
01:23.55brlcadautogen.sh lists the minimums
01:24.45brlcadshouldn't matter so long as it meets the minimum, don't know if you can specify "just use the latest"
01:24.54brlcador 2.50+
01:24.58starseekerIt seems the "correct" place to patch for the man page install is in the Makefile.in, but when I try I get...
01:25.09starseekerhang on, pastebin coming up...
01:25.28Maloeranbrlcad, I really couldn't figure out the last question, as well as a couple more in the last 10
01:26.19brlcadyeah, 33 was a bitch
01:26.26brlcadi got stuck on that one for several minutes
01:26.35MaloeranAlthough I lost time helping people in efnet's #c while doing the test
01:26.39starseekerhttp://pastebin.com/d2b9155af
01:27.21brlcad127's not bad at all .. with the rough estimates, that's probably "close enough" to at least test for mensa ;)
01:27.33starseeker<PROTECTED>
01:27.33brlcadsince that's clearly not a spot-on test
01:27.49brlcadhm, BC_BOLD is defined by macros in the m4/ dir
01:28.18starseekermaybe that's the m4 patch in portage
01:28.23brlcadsame as BC_CONFIG_CACHE .. seems that it's ignoring our -Im4 directive from autogen.sh ... does it run our autogen.sh?
01:28.23starseekergrr, let me add that too...
01:29.01brlcadotherwise it needs to .. autoreconf needs it if that's what you're running
01:35.23brlcadMaloeran: you should "try again" when you have time to think through uninterrupted ;)
01:36.45brlcadthe test is a bit biased towards geometric patterns, but still pretty fun -- thanks for the link
01:38.26brlcadstarseeker: I see from your pastebin that it is running the autotools prep steps directly .. what does that?  the eautoreconf and other steps
01:38.27Maloeran*nods* Yes, it's fun stuff
01:38.49MaloeranI'm afraid my results will be biased if I take the test again, I'll remember the hard patterns I already figured out
01:39.08MaloeranWould it be inappropriate to ask how much you got?
01:39.19brlcadMaloeran: but like I said .. in a true mensa test, time is irrelevant
01:39.24starseekeryes, eautoreconf is what's running autoconf
01:39.31brlcadnah, I got a 138
01:39.49MaloeranNeat
01:40.45brlcadtheoretically, you keep taking it and you'll only know what you know and given any reasonable amount of time, you're not really going to get any better without cheating
01:41.26MaloeranI guess I should take it again some day. At the moment, the result implies that I got dumber since the real test I took during high school years :)
01:41.38brlcadheh
01:41.45brlcadi doubt it correllates
01:41.58brlcadthere's only what .. 39 questions or something
01:42.08louipcwhat perks do you get if you're in mensa?
01:42.41brlcadgeeky bragging rights
01:42.47brlcadpretty pointless chest pounding
01:43.08louipcis it good to use for picking up chicks?
01:43.12brlcadhah, riiight
01:43.26louipc:D
01:43.43brlcadit would likely make for decent resume material
01:43.49brlcadfor bean counters that cared
01:44.09louipchehe
01:46.40brlcadbut same reason I wouldn't apply when I was a teenager still holds today ... there's just no point other than self-gratification bragging rights
01:46.54louipcthere's a few AIM clients on linux
01:47.29MaloeranThe last time I tried Gaim, it would segfault when trying to send a message
01:47.42MaloeranAh by the way Sean, just in case you could be interested ; I'm getting married on October 13th... to a girl with american citizenship
01:47.48brlcadi'm more impressed by someone that makes it to the olympics or works on a code for years on end to improve it, or can work through tricky algorithmic problems with regard to practical limitations, etc
01:47.57brlcadMaloeran: hehehe, I heard
01:48.01brlcadcongratulations
01:48.02louipcyeah it was pretty bad, it's gotten better though
01:48.10louipccalled 'pidgin' now
01:48.32brlcadMaloeran: so you plan on getting naturalized afterwards? :)
01:48.43brlcadwhere is she at?
01:48.48MaloeranSure, I'm thinking about moving to San Diego at the moment, I really enjoyed my time there
01:48.52louipccool
01:48.53MaloeranTechnically, she's in Montreal
01:49.13louipcand practically?
01:49.20brlcadhehe
01:49.31brlcadvirtually?
01:49.33starseekersorry guys, gotta run - brlcad, I'll see if I can dig up more on what's going on with the config step here
01:49.36starseekerthanks all!
01:49.38brlcadsee ya
01:49.40louipccheers
01:50.06MaloeranHrm. Let me clarify : she has been living in Montreal for the last 8 years, but she has american citizenship
01:50.41MaloeranApparently, we could live in both places at the same time, having an address both in Canada and the U.S.
01:50.59louipcyeah
01:51.12louipcit makes taxes a bit messy I think though
01:52.19MaloeranYes, it's rather messy already, perhaps partly because her parents don't know about the marriage
01:53.13louipcindeed
01:55.07MaloeranSan Diego was fantastic, it's just such a long way from Montreal if I want to come back see friends ( or my future wife ) on a regular basis
01:55.20MaloeranBut I just couldn't imagine myself living in Belcamp or Edgewood
01:56.34brlcadah, just elope, show up at their door one day and go "hi mom! dad!" and hug them
01:57.08brlcadMaloeran: live in the city (baltimore) .. way more interesting :)
01:57.20brlcador even in DC or Philadelphia
01:58.05MaloeranI didn't like that much what I have seen of Baltimore, I haven't really checked PHL beyond the airport though
01:58.45MaloeranEheh brlcad, I'm sure they'll figure it out somehow, perhaps very soon... with the courthouse leaving messages in their phone mailbox
01:59.03brlcadheh, really?  why would the courthouse call them?
01:59.47MaloeranShe lives with her father in Montreal, her mother is at San Diego ( I spent days with her family there too )
02:00.43MaloeranWe met in San Diego before Siggraph, went together to Mexico for a couple days afterwards. I think I have absolutely no memory of the conference itself
02:03.54brlcadwow, that's a first I've heard of .. finding a wife before/during siggraph(!)
02:03.58brlcadwas she attending?
02:04.05brlcaddid you know her beforehand or something?
02:04.43MaloeranShe was in vacation in San Diego to visit her mother
02:04.59MaloeranWe had a common friend back in Montreal who got us to meet, she came to get me at the airport
02:05.23MaloeranAnd... things went fast from that point, we decided to get married within 2 days :)
02:06.37poolio_woah
02:06.43MaloeranI got passes for her and her mother for Siggraph ( thanks Mark! ), so they did attend
02:07.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: add a check for icc's -p gprof profile option
02:11.50MaloeranJust to clarify, she did know through our common friend of vague thoughts on a possible "arranged marriage" to get me an immigration visa, it's not really a decision to normally make within 2 days
02:12.39brlcadthat's insane
02:12.56brlcadbut hey, cool
02:13.02brlcadhope she's good stuff for ya :)
02:14.02MaloeranEheh. We had a big pre-marriage party on the September 8th, everybody nicely dressed with her in a marriage dress... but no one actually took pictures
02:14.16MaloeranI'll try to get some on October 13th official marriage
02:15.39brlcadaw, it doesn't need to be fancy, just to see what the two of you look like together ;)
02:15.44MaloeranIn any case, my productivity has totally collapsed since Siggraph, which is slightly disturbing
02:15.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't mention the -pg flag now that it checks more than one
02:15.59MaloeranAhah
02:16.00brlcadi can imagine
02:16.15brlcadwomen have that ability to whip you entirely to their will
02:17.02brlcada good sign, hopefully will continue through past the 5-year mark :)
02:23.36MaloeranI'm almost frightened by how easily she can compromise my principles. On the September 8th party with a dozen friends, she managed to make me drink alcohol for the first time in my life, with so little resistance
02:24.39MaloeranThe right hemisphere of the brain seems to have risen against the opression of reason of logic for so many years. Anyhow, it's all a very disturbing experience from my point of view
02:38.45louipcyou just need to drink so much booze that she begs you to stop then you're good
02:44.03brlcadyeah, I read that the other night ... good for her :)
02:45.19brlcadthe sign of a good woman, pushing you to new experiences, expanding horizons
02:46.09louipcas long as she can take it as well as dish it out ;)
03:14.48MaloeranHrm, I'm not finding much information on amateur ( yet decent ) scuba diving photography. Montreal doesn't seem to best place to find this kind of material either
05:25.52brlcadminute: well, that's some progress .. I think I now understand the basic organizational structure of the default schemas and have created the db for brlcad, populated with just one user entry at the moment .. next step will be to read up on drupal and/or mediawiki ldap, but I'll have to continue that tomorrow (my turn to z)
05:30.44brlcadldap tis a fairly flexible and robust albeit somewhat complex beast..
05:31.01brlcadseveral gotchas in the setup and configurations
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09:04.45qazwsxhey, I'm looking for a fast open source csg library
09:04.53qazwsxcan I get some honest opinions on brlcad ?
09:05.11qazwsxperfecrably something I can interface with OpenGL
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14:32.28``Erikyes, mal, you absolutely must provide photographic evidence.
14:33.10``Erikas for mensa, I've known a fistful of members in the past, and my opinion is that it's a club for people who should be able to do something useful but don't, so they can feel better about themselves.
14:39.41MaloeranEvidence, eh? :) All right, I'll get that camera
14:48.09``Erikand if she's hotter than my gf, I'm gonna kick your ass and steal her, ok? :D *duck*
14:49.24``Eriktracking data corruption bugs sucks goat balls
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14:53.28MaloeranTsk, no chance. You would have to learn to like scuba diving, rock climbing, cycling, running... oh, and french too :)
14:54.10``Erikheh, I used to bike :/ but I left it when I moved, need to buy another
14:54.21minutehmm
15:22.17MaloeranSeems like you need to buy that bicycle for over an year now, Erik
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16:10.53``Erikyes, about 2 years
16:59.57MaloeranThey had no idea if the camera's data could be accessed from Linux, I guess I'll find out soon enough
17:06.36``Erikshould be uhhh
17:06.46``ErikI d'no the linux name, fbsd calls it umass
17:06.55``Erikbasically a usb hard drive using flash media for backing
17:07.46``Erikthat's how most cameras talk, anyways :)
17:08.52Maloeran*nods* I heard the data could be stored in non-standard format though
17:09.01MaloeranWhich requires their software to read, or perhaps some gimp plugins
17:10.59``Erikhm, the few cameras I've dorked with have all stored jfif
17:11.31``ErikI have scripts somewhere to mount, mv, umount and convert to jpeg, stashing them in a directory date '+%Y%m%d'
17:12.49MaloeranRight, I see
17:14.43MaloeranThe thing got a microphone and other strange goodies. It's time to read the manual, I never really used a modern camera
17:17.10``Erikmodern digital cameras can do a small bit of video recording
17:41.00brlcadMaloeran: most modern cameras store internally in a raw format or a jpeg format, even internally
17:41.15brlcadthe dcraw project will decode most raw formats
17:41.29brlcadparticularly if it's a canon or nikon, but others too
17:43.04``Erik'jfif' is a degredate jpeg with extra info, but much MUCH larger
17:43.06MinuteElectronGood morning brlcad.
17:43.15``Erikmine's an olympia
17:44.35MaloeranMine's a Canon, I'm almost through the exhaustive manual
17:51.55brlcadhowdy MinuteElectron
17:52.28brlcadheh bpoole? :)
17:52.46brlcadno more coolio apparently
17:52.47MinuteElectronI'm on the same server as you :)
17:52.55brlcadyeah, just realized that :)
17:53.56MinuteElectron"/format own_msg {ownmsgnick $2 {ownnick $[-9]0}}$1"
17:53.57MinuteElectron"/format own_msg_channel {ownmsgnick $3 {ownnick $[-9]0}{msgchannel $1}}$2"
17:53.57MinuteElectron"/format pubmsg_me {pubmsgmenick $2 {menick $[-9]0}}$1"
17:53.57MinuteElectron"/format pubmsg_me_channel {pubmsgmenick $3 {menick $[-9]0}{msgchannel $1}}$2"
17:53.59MinuteElectron"/format pubmsg_hilight {pubmsghinick $0 $3 $[-9]1}$2"
17:54.01MinuteElectron"/format pubmsg_hilight_channel {pubmsghinick $0 $4 $[-9]1{msgchannel $2}}$3"
17:54.04MinuteElectron"/format pubmsg {pubmsgnick $2 {pubnick $[-9]0}}$1"
17:54.07MinuteElectron"/format pubmsg_channel {pubmsgnick $3 {pubnick $[-9]0}{msgchannel $1}}$2"
17:54.10brlcadwoops
17:54.57MinuteElectronoops
17:55.04MinuteElectronstupid irssi
17:55.08MinuteElectrons/irssi/me
17:55.09MinuteElectronsorry
17:57.08MinuteElectronbbl
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18:47.21brlcadhammer time!
18:49.05MaloeranEheh, I still got 14 days to change for a better model.  http://www.rayforce.net/hello.png
18:50.19MaloeranIt's definitely not worthy of marriage or scuba diving pictures
18:59.36brlcadI knew it!
18:59.48brlcadshe .. looks a lot like a potted plant
19:00.35MaloeranAhaha
19:01.04brlcadi can see the attaction
19:01.09brlcadi bet she likes to get dirty
19:01.39brlcadyeah, that camera's no good if that's the best it can do
19:02.27MaloeranHere's the original non-resized : http://www.rayforce.net/Picture%20006.jpg
19:02.31MaloeranIt's definitely horrible
19:03.54brlcadwow
19:03.58brlcadthat's like
19:04.01brlcadcrap
19:04.21MaloeranPretty much, yes.  I guess one definitely pays extra for scuba diving cameras
19:04.22brlcada whole 4 Mpix?
19:04.28Maloeran7.1Mpix
19:04.37MaloeranBut the quality of the pixels themselves is fairly bad
19:04.37brlcadwow, that can't be effective pixels
19:04.53brlcadwonder if dpreview covers scuba cams
19:06.30brlcadhm, covers the A570IS, http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_a570is.asp
19:06.40brlcadbut .. I can't imagine that thing being water tight
19:06.57MaloeranOh, you have to buy the housing kit too
19:07.05brlcadah
19:07.08MaloeranIt still has underwater functionalities
19:07.27brlcadthe rebel XT is their best price point at the moment
19:07.29MaloeranThey give that camera 4/5 stars?
19:07.49MaloeranCould I be using it wrong? It can't be considered good from the pictures I presently get
19:08.10brlcadi dunno, you could be
19:08.20brlcadthe review should have pictures they took
19:08.46MaloeranIt's a lot cheaper in the states too for some reason
19:09.27brlcadahh, no recent review of that one, too old
19:09.48brlcadoh, here it is http://www.dpreview.com/news/0702/07022201canonsa560a570is.asp
19:10.24brlcadstill no images though
19:10.59brlcadhave you set the quality to high?
19:11.25brlcadjpeg format is usually crap for most purposes
19:12.40brlcadthe way that is pixellated, though, makes me think it's also probably in the wrong mode too
19:19.39MaloeranYou were right, there was a higher quality mode
19:21.52MaloeranIt's not actually that much better
19:25.38Maloeran"High-quality" : http://www.rayforce.net/hello2.png   Or me showing off a tiny part of rock climbing skills : http://www.rayforce.net/hello3.png ( one arm traction )
19:31.50brlcadcan you do the full pull up?
19:32.01MaloeranSure, of course
19:32.15brlcadand how much do you weight? :)
19:32.22Maloeran64kg :)
19:32.29Maloeran141 pounds
19:32.38brlcadheh, not too shabby
19:33.32brlcaddo you have a climbing gym to train in?
19:33.58MaloeranI go climbing in an interior gym about twice a week with friends, yes
19:34.46MaloeranHave you ever tried that sport? I find it very enjoyable, there's much technique and balance involved
19:35.02brlcadi like the campus boards, where your only grip is by the tips of your fingers up a slant
19:35.08brlcadoh yeah, love it
19:35.12brlcadbeen a few times
19:35.35MaloeranReally! I had no idea you were climbing, let's go climbing next time we end up at the same place, wherever that is
19:36.01brlcadi'm not very good, it has only been a few times, but it has been fun
19:36.17MaloeranI climb up to 5.11a or so
19:36.18brlcadi do seem to have the grip for it
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19:43.49Z80-Boybrlcad: are you here?
19:44.00brlcaddepends
19:44.13Z80-Boybrlcad: I just managed to make my home Internet connection work
19:44.14brlcadah, hey clock
19:45.38Z80-Boycan you ping 77.56.70.88?
19:46.23MaloeranSure, ping 130ms or so
19:46.37Z80-Boythat should be me
19:46.41brlcadlikewise
19:56.53Z80-Boybrlcad: please process the query, urgent
20:03.02minuteZ80-Boy: You ping fine.
20:03.31Z80-Boyminute: thanks
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20:11.06MaloeranThis is messed up.  brlcad, a test image for the A570 IS : http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/A570IS/FULLRES/YIMG_0168.HTM
20:11.13MaloeranThis is so far away from what I'm getting
20:21.08brlcadMaloeran: are you raw? what's you're image mode?
20:21.32brlcadthat link isn't very great either, just more vibrant
20:21.48brlcada little better than yours, but then it's also an outdoor shot on a very bright day
20:22.06MaloeranAnd I plan to use that camera under 20 meters of water.. :)
20:23.42MaloeranYou are right though, outdoor shots are looking better
21:47.14``Erikhum, that camera looks about on par for a cheap camera...
21:47.38``Erika scuba specific camera will be a couple hundred more, and probably look like a giant yellow clown thingie
21:48.36MaloeranI just came back to the shop. It's the best "compact" camera they have that can be used for underwater photography
21:49.00MaloeranApparently, the quality of all "compacts" is crappy, but some guy recommended me a list of Photoshop filters to apply
21:49.38MaloeranBeyond that, the only options are true profesionnal underwater cameras, which cost several thousands
21:51.50``Erikhum, my dad bought a serious pro grade scuba camera for a few hundred bucks about 15 years ago
21:52.06``Erikwasn't worth shit above water, but it was fucking solid under
21:52.22``Erikperhaps it's an issue of specialization
21:52.41``Erikmy dad was a scuba instructor for a while...
21:53.04``Erikso, y'know, a tad bit insulted at your earlier comments *cough* :D
22:00.01MaloeranOh :)
22:00.54MaloeranThen again, clearly there's no shop specialized in scuba diving photography in Montreal
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22:46.05starseekerbrlcad:  Well, calling brlcad's own autogen.sh works, so as long as that doesn't put a bee in somebody's bonnet we may be Good To Go.
22:46.23starseekerbrlcad:  Doing test build now, only Makefile.in files were patched.
23:29.55Z80-Boybrlcad: if I want to make a board of hexagonal shape in BRL-CAD I need to use arbn limited by 8 planes, right?
23:30.18starseekerSWEEET.  new patch based on autoconf files succeeds.
23:33.10iraytraceZ80-boy:  Both the arbn and the ars would be good candidates.
23:33.22Z80-Boywhat is ars?
23:34.25iraytraceIt's a "waterline" primitive.
23:36.24iraytraceDo you need it to be a single primitive?
23:37.15Z80-Boyno
23:40.46*** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
23:43.00starseekerbrlcad:  It worked!
23:43.09starseekerupdated ebuild and goodies up on bug
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070918

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070918

00:02.37starseekerbrlcad:  One of the gentoo devs has downloaded the BRL-CAD tarball and will be looking at the autoconf magic :-)
00:03.07starseekerbrlcad:  Dunno what that means for ebuild inclusion, but at least the interest level is there
00:03.43louipc:D
00:04.46louipcstarseeker: http://sourceforge.net/projects/buildconf/
00:05.59yukonbobstarseeker: re: tcl/tk fan -- I guess I am :) ...
00:12.23brlcad~starseeker++
00:12.35brlcadawesome
00:13.34brlcadyukonbob: you?! never...
00:13.38brlcad*grin*
00:13.45starseekerbrlcad:  :-) :-).  
00:14.03starseekerbrlcad:  We should have a betting pool now - how long it takes the dev to cry uncle ;-)
00:14.20brlcadthe autoconf magic really just boils down to running autoreconf and a few other verfication items
00:14.38brlcadmore details on the buildconf website
00:14.59starseekerI think he's interested in how you're checking if tcl support et. al. are advanced enough
00:15.11brlcadin your particular instance, you were just missing the -Im4
00:15.16brlcadahh
00:15.20brlcadthat magic
00:15.36starseekerbrlcad:  Hmm.  Maybe there's an option for eautoreconf
00:15.41brlcadprobably
00:15.52brlcadit's probably just a wrapper like autogen.sh
00:16.07starseekerWell, running autogen works fine :-)
00:16.10brlcadyep
00:16.16brlcadtis why it exists
00:16.19brlcadit just makes it work
00:16.36starseekerNow, on to the documentation :-)
00:16.43brlcadhence, http://buildconf.brlcad.org/ ;)
00:16.46starseekerwhere do I find the word versions?
00:18.34brlcadif you need to explain the tcl logic (which you shouldn't probably need to), the tests are as such .. tests for various libs that we're compatible with (up through 8.6), then tests for header availability, then it performs a compilation functionality test where it actually builds a tcl interpreter app and tries to run it
00:19.32louipchaha sweet
00:19.55brlcadif that all works, and it should as it's exactly what we need it to do for mged, then the test passes and system tcl is used.  if it fails, the build falls back to using internal (and this of course all presume that the default enable-tcl-build is in effect, i.e. =auto)
00:20.04brlcadif you force it on or off, it overrides the tests
00:21.04brlcadyou find the word versions from me, I've been e-mailing them to folks interested just because I don't really want those versions to propagate around the net (given they are readily editable, but with no revision history/controls or easy merge features)
00:21.18brlcadpm me your e-mail and I'll send you the big one
00:23.01starseekerok :-)
00:27.08yukonbobbrlcad: :)
00:27.25yukonbobstarseeker: are you working on docbook-ing?
00:27.46starseekerI"m going to try ;-)
00:28.07yukonbobnice -- I've been threatening to do the same, but haven't done anything yet...
00:28.43yukonbobbrlcad: I've never heard to ms-word master copies of the docs that generated the pdfs, though -- am I understanding correctly that there are such docs?
00:29.25louipchow would you docbook it?
00:29.38louipcI was thinking of working with the poppler project because they can already convert to html
00:30.09louipcand they do convert to some weird custom xml format so why not make it docbook instead?
00:30.59brlcadyukonbob: yes.. hrm, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the last time we were talking about this a couple months ago too when that other guy was working on it
00:30.59starseekerI was planning on going more primitive at first - just get the text and images out of word into something sane and go over it by hand
00:31.07brlcadi'd sent him one of the .doc's at the time
00:31.12starseekergood way to learn about the system while I'm at it
00:32.40yukonbobbrlcad: if it was mentioned, I missed it or forgot it... no matter, though; now I'm up to speed.
01:15.48brlcadokay, uploaded
03:55.51starseekerFor extracting content from the word docs, the wv tools seem to have done OK so far.  wvDocBook generates a rather odd looking xml file and (more importantly) the image files, and wvText generates a readable text file (trying Vol I)
03:56.16starseekerNow the hard part - what the toolchain is for writing and processing a docbook file.
03:58.04starseekerbrlcad:  I'm seeing things like saxon, fop, xalan  docbook-xml-dtd, docbook-xsl-stylesheets, etc. - how did you want to approach this?
03:58.16starseekera lot of the tools I'm seeing recommended need java
03:59.03starseekerI'm also hearing sgml is no longer the direction to take with docbook, xml is the "new" way to go.
03:59.06brlcadideally the one with the least dependencies, easiest to maintain, easiest to install, and most portable
03:59.16starseekerhrm
03:59.21brlcadyeah, definitely xml docbook or xml docbook lite
03:59.25louipccool
03:59.38brlcaddoesn't matter if it's 5 or 4.5
03:59.42starseekerApache FOP seems to be a "big player" in this...
04:00.09brlcadFOP is, but it can also be a pain to set up
04:00.18starseekerCan we make do without it?
04:00.42brlcadideally something that doesn't require the java vm is easier to manage
04:00.57brlcadbut if something else java-based is that much better, then so be it
04:01.05starseekerIf we want an XSL-FO processor... let's see what else is out there...
04:01.09louipcstarseeker: what are those wv tools?
04:01.26brlcadi've used a handful of the docbook processors, and none of them seemed "great" .. so it's really just finding the one that's the least of a headache
04:01.28starseekerThey're used by Abiword, IIRC.
04:02.11starseeker"Tool for conversion of MSWord doc and rtf files to something readable"
04:02.14brlcadideally there will be a make target like 'make doc' or ./configure --enable-docs that will generate the documentation by running the docbook processor(s)
04:02.20starseekerhttp://wvware.sourceforge.net/
04:02.54louipcthanks
04:02.54starseekerThere's a wv2 which I think is an update - may not be needed for this case, but we'll see
04:03.07brlcadso something that can be readily set up under freebsd would be nice so it can be tied to the website automatically via automated builds
04:04.21starseekerDoes xmlroff ring any bells?
04:05.00brlcadnot particularly
04:05.54brlcadoutput formats of importance are pdf and html, other useful outputs would be txt, rtf/doc, ps, and odf
04:06.29starseekerI'm going to have to take some time and dig - the tool chain for docbook seems both complex and... er... confusing
04:08.19brlcadit is pretty complex
04:10.45louipcoh wow wv is sweet
04:10.58louipcthat does it
04:11.05starseekerDoes what?
04:13.15louipcextracts the content and images and references the images in the document :D
04:13.24starseekerYep :-)
04:13.55starseekerthe docbook it spits out I think is not what we want though - it preserves all the literal blank lines, at least at a quick glance
04:14.03starseekergreat way to get images though
04:14.12starseekerWe want human editable XML
04:14.23louipcyeah empty para
04:14.34starseekerAnd as I'm digging I'm not seeing too many alternatives to Apache FOP :-(
04:15.29starseekerPassiveTeX is apparently pretty well outdated
04:15.38louipc:/
04:16.32starseekerLotta commercial ones...
04:16.49starseekerThat's a surprise, I would have thought there would be wider tool support for docbook
04:17.48starseekerI guess we can do it, but there'll have to be some rather extensive documentation on the documentation system ;-)
04:19.09starseekerOh, well.  At least extraction was easy!
04:21.08starseekerbrlcad:  Is LaTeX out due to it's lack of good output options?
04:21.10louipc:D
04:28.12brlcadstarseeker: no, not out of the question, nothing really is
04:28.30brlcadjust whatever is easiest to set up and automate that gives the output :)
04:30.28brlcadit doesn't even have to "match" the output, it should just look good
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11:57.55Z80-Boybrlcad: I tried to edit an arbn in the graphics menu editor and it said it's not implemented for this kind of primitive
11:58.27Z80-Boybrlcad: I want to ask the coefficients for the planes, which actually define a normal vector, is it a vector that points out of the body or into the body?
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13:19.19``Erikcould also use 'jade' like the fbsd project... :D
13:31.17brlcadI liked jade when I was working that area
13:31.32Z80-Boybrlcad: did you figure out yesterday anything on my machine?
13:31.34brlcadit's a bit of a trick to get docbook/xml to work with it, but it works
13:31.50brlcadZ80-Boy: yeah, I compiled and ran the latest with no problems :)
13:31.59Z80-Boybrlcad: remotely through X?
13:32.03brlcadyep
13:32.08Z80-Boybrlcad: latest == which version?
13:32.18brlcadlatest == latest sources in cvs
13:32.49brlcadcould have made 7.10.0 work, but that tarball had a few files missing and some other minor annoyances not worth even disabling
13:32.53Z80-Boywhat did you type to run mged?
13:32.57brlcads/few files/a file/
13:33.20Z80-Boydid I supply a corrupted tarball?
13:33.48brlcadno, there's just a file missing from the dist that was fixed that same day, but missing nonetheless
13:33.59brlcad.2 fixed it shortly thereafter
13:34.05brlcadand the fix is simple, just turn off jove
13:34.12brlcador touch the missing file
13:34.12Z80-Boywhat did you type in which dir to run the CVS mged? I want to try too.
13:34.51brlcadwell, ideally you should install, otherwise the problem you were probably running into is an LD_LIBRARY_PATH issue since Tcl/Tk only build as shared libraries by default
13:35.05brlcadso you have to install to get the tcl/tk libs, or you have to set your ld_lib path
13:35.08Z80-Boybut you couldn't install you weren't root
13:35.18Z80-Boyso what did you type to verify that mged works?
13:35.21brlcadsure, I just set the ld_lib path
13:35.43brlcadLD_LIBRARY_PATH=src/other/tcl/unix:src/other/tk/unix src/mged/mged
13:36.14Z80-BoyReally, seems to work.
13:36.23brlcadyou doubted?
13:36.30Z80-Boyno
13:36.34brlcad:)
13:36.40Z80-Boyhow can I do the CVS checkout and compile myself?
13:36.51brlcad~cadcvs
13:36.51ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS:  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
13:36.57Z80-Boywow :)
13:37.59Z80-Boymissing information: "and press ENTER".
13:38.11Z80-Boy(to get through the password)
13:38.13``Erikyou need to make sure that you have reasonably recent vrsions of automake, autoconf and libtool and you need to run the 'autogen.sh' script
13:38.29brlcadyeah, he had those
13:38.31Z80-Boywhich brl-cad must have done?
13:38.41brlcadthose obsd really annoying wraps them so that you have to set env vars
13:38.52brlcadyeah, you have to run:
13:39.03brlcadexport AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.60
13:39.15brlcadexport AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.10
13:39.25Z80-Boyhttp://store.grainsurfboards.com/products/the-root
13:39.25brlcador something like that, might have your versions wrong
13:39.43brlcadjust look for: locate bin/automake
13:40.32brlcadput that version into the vars
13:40.52``Erikthe number of 'menstraul calendars' on freshmeat is just disturbing O.o
13:42.42brlcader, one?
13:43.06brlcadi see one app for a mobile phone, but nothing else
13:43.20``ErikI've seen a fistful listed over the years
13:43.29Z80-Boy.oO(those women)
13:43.59brlcadnothing coming up on search, this must be something you look for a lot :P
13:44.24``Erikwell, probably a combination of geeks who've never had to worry about that and married geeks trying to breed
13:44.34``Erikheh, yes, I must control my ovum. O.o
13:44.51brlcadthere's three more if you search my ation
13:45.00brlcads/my/by/
13:46.44``Erikgoogle pulls up a slew of 'em if you just dump keywords in
13:47.00``Erikbut a lot are multiple hit dealies... project page, activity stats, screenshot, etc all for one project
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14:02.12Z80-Boyso *_VERSION set, ./autogen.sh ran
14:04.54Z80-Boy7.10.3, woohoo :)
14:05.48Z80-Boybrlcad: question: the normal vectors for boundary planes specified when building arbn on commandline, are they pointing outwards or inwards relative to the resulting solid?
15:08.40brlcadoutwards
15:09.08Z80-Boyand it asks for distance between the plane and the origin
15:09.26Z80-BoyIs this still the distance itself when the vector doesn't have a unit length?
15:10.17brlcadthe vector will be unitized
15:10.34brlcadso if you give something > 1, then length will be scaled
15:10.49brlcadif the vector is the size you want, then the distance/scaling factor should be 1
15:10.59Z80-BoyI don't get it
15:11.35Z80-Boy"so if you give something > 1" -> does "something" refer to vector length or the distance?
15:12.02Z80-Boy"then length will be scaled" -> does this mean I enter 800 and the plane may possibly end up being 1600 instead of 800?
15:12.03brlcadexample: in arbn arbn 6 1 0 0 10 0 1 0 10 0 0 1 10 -1 0 0 10 0 -1 0 10 0 0 -1 10  .. creates a 20x20x20 box because of the unit vectors
15:12.25brlcadif you give a vector length > 1
15:14.13brlcadexample2: in arbn2 arbn 6 5 0 0 10 0 1 0 10 0 0 1 10 -1 0 0 10 0 -1 0 10 0 0 -1 1  .. creates a smaller box because of the 5 0 0 vector (so length is 10 / 5 = 2) .. making the box 12x20x20
15:14.48Z80-Boyoh so it's a misnomer in brl-cad
15:15.01brlcadoop, missing the last 10
15:15.04Z80-Boyit asks for distance, but actually it's not distance, but the fourth equation coefficient
15:15.48brlcader, it's still a distance, but still also scaled by the vector
15:15.55brlcadit could probably say "scaled distance"
15:16.25Z80-Boythis is really frustrating - I am already trying to determine how to make a triangle with chopped corners for the 3rd day
15:16.32Z80-BoyFirst I read the Volume II blah blah
15:16.55Z80-Boywhich gave me a lot of irrelevant information, but the really important one - which way the vector points and what the fourth number means - was absent
15:17.14Z80-BoyThen I tried to use the graphical clickable editor just to figure out it isn't supported for arbn
15:17.23Z80-Boyted is also not supported for arbn...
15:17.36brlcadwell, you could have figured out "which way the vector points" in a minute by just creating one
15:18.05Z80-BoyAt least now, after several hours fiddling with calculator, I can put in the number and with a bit of luck not make a mistake a get the right shape
15:18.16Z80-Boybrlcad: how?
15:18.40brlcadin ?
15:18.47Z80-Boyhow to try it out?
15:19.20brlcadby creating a simple shape, like in the example I gave
15:19.28brlcadsimple box, boom done
15:19.56brlcadhad the vectors been reversed, it would have been pretty apparent
15:19.58Z80-Boyhmm but if the shape doesn't display then I don't know if it's because my theory about how it works inside is wrong or I forgot some hidden aspect of mged which is possibly not mentioned in the manual...
15:20.06Z80-BoyA method of trial and error is not acceptable
15:20.15Z80-BoyIt should be documented
15:20.39brlcadare we really going to have this same discussion again?
15:20.41brlcadof course it should
15:20.45brlcadare you going to document it?
15:20.45Z80-Boyalso those things like "what it really does depends on mged's internal states" -> great. How do I know now how?
15:21.01Z80-BoyIf I get really pissed, maybe even yes :)
15:21.18brlcadtechnically it's not even that it's inward or outward
15:21.24brlcadbecause it's plane coefficients
15:21.41brlcadyou never define a point and a vector, you just define the vector
15:21.47Z80-Boyit's some kind of equation like ax+bx+cz<=/=>/</>d
15:21.47brlcadergo, it has to be from the origin
15:22.20brlcadwhere everything is an outward direction effectively
15:22.43Z80-BoyI guess somehow in the U. S. Army learned it 30 years ago from the source code and now it doesn't have to be documented until he dies
15:23.09Z80-Boyand someone else has to take over his chair and start typing the numbers instead of him, am I right? ;-)
15:23.23brlcadhe/his? who?
15:23.45Z80-BoyWhat is actually the official documentation of brl-cad?
15:24.19brlcadthe pdf's on the website, the manual pages, and everthing in doc
15:24.37Z80-BoyLike a lot of mysteries around BRL-CAD
15:24.55Z80-BoyFor example - there are Volumes II, III, IV - is there also a mysterious Volume I? If yes, what's inside?
15:25.05brlcada lot of "expert-friendly" knowledge that you learn the more you use it
15:25.17brlcadand a lot of work needed on making it more user-friendly and easy to use of course
15:25.22Z80-Boythe problem is I use BRL-CAD only ocassionally on Ronja
15:25.49Z80-Boysometimes I go soldering, sometimes I go welding, sometimes debug electronics, sometimes I need to add a new 3d model or modify existing one
15:25.57Z80-BoyFor that I need a usable reference guide
15:26.04brlcaddude, I completely agree
15:26.11brlcadthe issue is just a matter of time and priorities
15:26.18Z80-BoyAnd not information where the crucial detail is always missing
15:26.32brlcadi could be working on docs, and that would help for a short while .. but then there are bigger problems that would go unaddressed
15:26.39Z80-BoyIs it possible to change the source of Volume II and add notes about what it really does at the latest detail level?
15:26.49brlcadother problems that *only* I can take care of at the moment
15:27.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/qray.c: change (char)NULL to CNULL ( (char)0x0 ) to quiet the warnings about casting to different size
15:27.05brlcadit is possible, that's part of the docbook work we were talking about earlier
15:27.06Z80-BoyI always remember that arbn does a n-plane demarked body but never remember if the inequality is this or that way
15:27.20Z80-Boyif a rotation goes counter or clockwise and that's exactly what's missing in these references
15:27.25brlcadvol I is on the website, it's just exceptionally brief
15:27.48Z80-BoyWhere is Vol I ? I can't find it
15:27.55brlcadfrankly, I didn't remember what the inputs to an arbn were either, I just made one and found out
15:27.58brlcadit's the first link
15:28.03brlcadunder docs
15:28.27Z80-BoyOverview of BRL-CAD?
15:28.30brlcadyep
15:28.51Z80-BoyBut there's no indication it's Volume I!
15:29.23brlcadthe docs predate the open sourcing and the new build system, so vol I actually included all the details about the license agreement, the old build system installation instructions per platform, and other details that are simply no longer relevant
15:29.53brlcaduhm, who cares if it doesn't say it's vol I ... wtf does that matter?
15:30.14Z80-BoyNow you saw it
15:30.17brlcadthat's really getting critical on something that really doesn't matter
15:30.21``Erikit has a '1' by it, does that count?
15:30.43``Erikjust like volume 2 has a '2' by it...
15:30.43``Erik:D
15:30.46brlcadthere are plenty of real things to complain about, a label on that doc isn't one of them
15:30.50Z80-BoyThen the doxygen documentation would be volume 7
15:31.01Z80-BoyAnd ARL technical reports volume 8
15:31.09``Erikok?
15:31.16brlcaddoes it matter?
15:31.19brlcadseriously?
15:31.24Z80-BoyI didn't complain I just asked where is the volume I
15:31.57Z80-BoyBecuase I thought the information that's missing in Vol II is maybe there
15:32.29Z80-BoyWhat is supposed to contain the most detailed reference on arbn? Volume II?
15:32.33brlcadyou asked, I answered :)
15:33.13brlcadit's just not even worth the edit, or this discussion to futz with it since the effort that is needed is the conversion to docbook
15:34.26Z80-BoyWhat needs to be converted to docbook? Only the Volume-* PDF's? Or also the manual pages? Online helps? doxygen doc?
15:34.59brlcadthe vol pdfs for starters, ideally everything and just have the various formats auto-generated
15:37.25Z80-BoyOMG is it rasterized at billion DPI?
15:37.27brlcadthe "volume" formats aren't necessarily going to be preserved .. some info is verbose/redundant, some info is outright missing
15:37.59``Erikheh
15:38.24Z80-BoyPrinting into ps and running through ps2pdf didn't help...
15:42.47brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Reference_Card_front.png  http://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Reference_Card_back.png
15:48.31Z80-Boyno
15:48.34Z80-Boybut I have one at home
15:49.23Z80-Boy2 pages PNG, 700kB each, that's not very practical
15:50.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/pl-X.c: fix sign difference
15:50.34Z80-BoyI made this: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/refcard.png
15:51.42``Erikhah, doh, didn't even know z80-boy was karel :D
15:52.45Z80-BoyL0CALZ 0NLY
15:54.13Z80-BoyNow I can open it in Links on one desktop and just grab the screen with mouse and move it around :)
15:55.01MaloeranAhah  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6998619.stm
15:56.11``Erikheh
16:00.18Z80-BoyI put it together cut out the white strip in the middle, around the image, scaled as much down as it would be still legible and converted to 16 colors without dithering (to not get jagged text) to not make the PNG load long
16:51.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/process.c: re-organize and clean up (fixing compiler warnings)
16:52.28minutebrlcad: How is LDAP going?
16:52.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/count.c: explicitely set id's type as int
17:27.01``Erikheh, I hasn't thought about that before... 'e' is for draw and 'd' is for erase
17:27.01yukonbob``Erik: ;) -- what does 'e' stand for? 'd' could easily be 'delete', but 'e'?
17:32.09brlcadwoot, finally got rounded corner working
17:33.37brlcadZ80-Boy: uploaded your image, thanks
17:34.00Z80-Boybrlcad: you're welcome
17:34.28brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/MGED_Quick_Reference_Card.png
17:34.47brlcadI'll link it on the new site as data is migrated
17:35.22Z80-Boycool
17:35.48Z80-Boythe card looks quite helpful actually I didn't use it because it was so slow to turn the pages
17:36.15Z80-Boy(xpdf viewer)
17:37.05Z80-Boyis it allowed to use the BRL-CAD logo in a free licensed movie end titles?
17:37.41Z80-Boysomething like 3D modelling software (BRL-CAD logo) U. S. Army Aberdeen Proving Ground or however it is?
17:38.36Z80-Boycause it looks quite cool
17:39.40brlcadwelcome to use any of these: http://brlcad.org/images/logo/
17:41.27``Erikbob: I dunno, "edit"? *shrug*
17:42.26Z80-BoyThey have "Army Research Laboratory" replaced with Open Source
17:42.37Z80-BoyI like more the ARL ones it makes an impression that a serious shit is going on
17:43.24brlcadand that same reason that it gives that impression makes it a bit harder to redistribute/use :)
17:43.51Z80-Boycause of the ARL trademark or whatever?
17:43.55Z80-BoySo I should use the Open Source one?
17:44.03brlcadprobably
17:44.37Z80-Boybut I can put ARL into the credits, right?
17:44.59brlcadyou're making it, you can credit whomever you like
17:46.22brlcadthe intention, however, is to move more and more towards a more familiar "global" open source project with developers and participants all over the world involved
17:46.33Z80-BoyOK
17:46.49brlcadARL is still a major participant and funder of some of the developers, but in the end they're just a participant like everyone else
17:47.00Z80-Boycause then I would have to start writing ARL et al.?
17:47.19Z80-Boyare there any non-ARL developers?
17:47.26brlcadsure, plenty
17:47.34brlcadhow active they are varies heavily from time to time
17:47.49Z80-Boydoes this opening mean that ARL is loding interest in the project and it's having some better software instead?
17:47.54brlcadand the ones paid certainly are the most active, but that won't necessarily always be true
17:48.06brlcadnot in the least
17:48.09Z80-Boyloding -> losing
17:48.18brlcadthe point is to encourage others to participate and get involved
17:48.36brlcadinstead of just having people sitting on the other side of a fence waiting for stuff to get thrown over
17:48.52Z80-BoyI just don't understand armies are usually secretive and now they open a 3D modeling tool with 30 years of devel
17:49.11``Erikhum, lots of stuff has been released through the years
17:49.40``Erik'ping', the improvements to the bsd4.2 network stack that found its way into winderz and pretty much every other current ipv4 capable os...
17:49.51Z80-Boyfrom ARL?
17:49.54``Erikyeah
17:49.57Z80-Boylol :)
17:50.24``Erikfrom the same team, even... the guy who architected and did most of BRL-CAD is the one who did ping and the stack stuff
17:50.49Z80-Boyand now is dead because of a car crash?
17:50.52``Erikplus loads of publically available documents come outta here
17:50.54``Erikyeah
17:51.05Z80-Boywas it his mistake or the other's one?
17:51.12``Erik<-- wasn't there
17:51.45Maloeran<-- wasn't born
17:51.49Z80-BoyI take it as an indication that road travel is dangerous
17:51.51``Erikum
17:51.54``Erikin 2000?
17:52.00MaloeranOh, the guy died in 2000?
17:52.02``Erikyeah
17:52.11MaloeranI thought it was a very old story, from the beginning of ping and brlcad
17:52.27``Erikping was '83, BRL-CAD kinda sorta started in '79
19:10.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c:
19:10.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: Fixed a bug with funky matrix manipulation. Fixed a bug with the old object
19:10.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: being written with the new matrix applied.
19:14.43minutebrlcad: How is progress on LDAP?
19:18.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: rotation on v5 primivites
19:28.17*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:28.35Z80-Boybrlcad: now my mged works, thanks
19:37.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: search the tcl environment for an editor variable
19:38.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: editor tcl variable
19:39.35``Erikthe comb cloning stuff seems fundamentally wrong to me O.o
19:40.54Z80-BoyIt even seems to calculate with rt, another sign that the CVS works on my OpenBSD machine
19:41.08Z80-BoyDidn't have any problem did just the autogensh ./configure make make install
19:42.01``Erik<-- did a fistful of fixes a bit back for obsd41 in a vm
19:42.15``Erikdidja up to 41, or are you still on 40?
19:44.25Z80-Boyyes I'm still 4.0
19:44.31``Erikhum, nifty
19:46.10*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-021-167.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:05.17Z80-Boythat's good that it works even on the older version
20:05.28Z80-Boyit's actually not so old.
20:06.55``Erikit worked fine on 38 *shrug*
20:07.46Z80-Boyhehe
20:55.35brlcadminute: I've been working on the website style all day today, tweaking style some more
20:56.33brlcadfixed the block page, modified the headers, changed the menu style and titles, and a few other details throughout
21:01.24minutebrlcad: cool
21:03.34brlcadi'm not sure how to apply the theme to the wiki?
21:03.55brlcadi modified the block template to get the rounded corners
21:04.12brlcadI'd presume the same can be applied to the wiki, but can you point me at the template files?
21:04.17minutebrlcad: They automatically apply to the wiki I think.
21:04.24minuteit is a symlinked template
21:04.42minutetry purging the parser cache via adding ?action=purge to the url
21:07.14brlcadstill not there
21:07.37brlcaddo you see it on, http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
21:07.56brlcadit's picked up the other css changes
21:08.00brlcadbut not the template change
21:10.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: Display all newly generated objects, not just the first. Autoview after display.
21:10.55minutehmm
21:10.56brlcadblock.tpl.php is the tempalte page
21:11.08minuteyeah
21:11.13minutethat is included in the mediawiki thing
21:11.19brlcadhrmp
21:12.35Z80-Boysounds like brlcad is going to use mediawiki?
21:14.20brlcadminute: it's not in the source, it's using the block class, but not the template
21:14.32brlcadZ80-Boy: yes
21:14.45brlcadit's in their docs, iirc
21:14.47minutethe mediawiki sidebar is missing some elemts of the blocks in drupal
21:15.29minutewow the iPod nano is nice
21:16.19Z80-Boybrlcad: I had mediawiki on Ronja shortly and it got filled with viagra-cialis link spam
21:16.29brlcadZ80-Boy: heh
21:16.38Z80-BoyI hope brl-cad will have it condfigured in a way that this is not possible
21:16.42brlcadyep
21:16.49brlcadalready is
21:17.00minutefixing as we speak
21:17.11Z80-Boygood
21:17.12brlcadfollowing some stuff that we use on bzflag's mediawiki install
21:17.27brlcadwhich has been spam-free for a long time now (with massive exposure)
21:17.49Z80-BoyI abandoned the wiki after the incident since it would take so much work to clean all the pages - and people tended to submit incorrect information that was causing trouble to other people
21:18.08minuteinstall captcha and poof spam gone
21:18.11Z80-BoyLike a population plan where a couple of parts had the wrong value -> very nasty
21:18.23brlcadhas to be a good captcha, though
21:18.44Z80-Boycaptcha can be outsourced to horny people who fill it in and get a porn video for it
21:18.47brlcadwe went through two other captchas that were pretty useless .. still got loads of hits
21:18.59brlcadespecially since we wanted to retain the ability allow anonymous edits
21:19.20brlcadrecaptcha's pretty darn good though
21:22.37minutebrlcad: xbox XD
21:23.05brlcad:)
21:23.24brlcadi can't claim that, though, took example from another site
21:23.33minuteheh, I understand
21:23.37minutecorners are dificult
21:23.45``Erikheh, is there a captcha that makes ya answer stupid questions? like it shows a munged up "2+2" and you have to type "4" ? :)
21:24.55brlcadthat was another thing we added to bz's form -- first we tried just "type the name of this game here" .. and if it had 'bz' anywhere in the answer, it let them past
21:25.12brlcadsurprisingly still got too much spam (few times a week)
21:25.37brlcadsame when we added a simple equation in the php that you had to answer to register
21:26.00brlcaddefinitely decreased the spam massively, but still too much for our hit-rate
21:26.23``Erikhm, if it's just on register, or it's always the same, it'd be trivial for a spammer to circumvent
21:30.32brlcadnah, it was random
21:31.21Z80-BoyHehe reCaptcha interesting concept using captcha to digitize books
21:31.55Z80-Boysomeone could make fake wikis which spammers would try to break through so they would distribute the recaptchas to porn sites, people would solve them and the wiki would discard the info after 5 minutes or so
21:32.10brlcad:)
21:32.18Z80-BoyInteresting how it pushes AI forward
21:32.34brlcadyeah, it's pretty cool
21:32.44brlcadeven if it gets fully cracked, it'll help :)
21:33.28minutebrlcad: fixed
21:33.37starseekerZ80-Boy:  Ah, yes :-)  I saw that digitizing books from captcha idea - I like it
21:34.41brlcadawesome!
21:34.45brlcadhow'd you do it?
21:34.59minuteI had to add the corners to the sidebar divs in mediawiki
21:35.10brlcadwhere are those files?
21:35.16brlcad(in case I need to tweak)
21:35.17minutepage.tpl.php
21:35.23starseekerbrlcad:  I'm not quite sure how to proceed here.  If neither precise formatting nor precise content duplication is needed, I can probably have something reasonable looking for Vol1 (as a test case) pretty quickly.  That would have a very "default" LaTeX look though.  Would it be worth a test case?
21:35.24brlcadreally, hrmph
21:35.42minutebrlcad: there is an if statementn if it is drupal then drupal deals with it, otherwise we deal with it.
21:35.56brlcadstarseeker: it really depends.. i'm also not sure I'd focus on vol I regardless
21:36.08starseekerbrlcad:  it's short ;-)
21:36.22brlcadit's also 90% there in html form :)
21:36.31starseekerbefore I wade into the big ones, I'd like to have a rough idea of what's needed for formatting
21:36.43brlcadwell, what approach are you thinking of taking?
21:36.59brlcadvol III and IV are short(er)
21:37.03starseekerwv output a pretty good txt representation, and the docbook converstion extracted the images
21:37.14brlcadso then it's just docbook cleanup?
21:37.29starseekerWell, that's one option.  I prefer LaTeX personally
21:37.29Z80-BoyCan they also make AS - Artificial Stupidity?
21:37.30brlcadbecause messy docbook is better than no docbook for a starter :)
21:37.59starseekerI have a fair bit of familiarity with LaTeX, and can probably get something basic put together pretty quickly
21:38.09brlcadstarseeker: latex is great stuff, but just about every major doc project has migrated or is in the progress of migrating to docbook
21:38.24starseekerbrlcad:  Ah.
21:38.49brlcadlatex doesn't fully decouple the presentation either, so it's harder to apply it to "non-traditional" output formats
21:39.06brlcadthey're generally a bear to set up, but once set up, they just work
21:39.24brlcadmost of the work is in the stylesheet, like web work
21:39.33starseekerIf we go that route, I'd recommend adding the full toolchain to the src/other directory :-/
21:39.38brlcadminute: how does it look to you?
21:40.15brlcadpicking / evaluating the toolchain is part of the work :)
21:40.15minutein IE it has crappy antialiasing and the bottom set of corners are broken. otherwise good
21:40.30starseekerbrlcad:  OK, I'll work on docbook.  Do you have any good examples that would make good "guides"?
21:41.07brlcadsome platforms make the tools really easy, because they do everything in the package management system
21:41.27brlcadI know there are RH rpms for docbook-tools, there's probably something similar in ports
21:41.54brlcadthe docbook manual is out of date with respect to the tools now
21:42.23starseekerRight, but I'll need to familiarize myself with the markup
21:42.57brlcadit always has been
21:43.19brlcadand likely will be for a long time to come -- it's still one of the best at dealing with equations
21:43.47brlcadmight be useful to familiarize and model after what the guys are doing for the linuxdoc project
21:44.24brlcadhttp://tldp.org/
21:45.49brlcadnifty, http://tldp.org/LDP/LDP-Author-Guide/html/x2docbook.html
21:46.42brlcadthat's for the import side, the bigger problem is docbook -> output
21:47.46starseekerhttp://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/xml-matters3.html
21:47.55starseekerTrue, but I need something to try to convert first ;-)
21:48.01brlcadah, cool -- looks like they use jade
21:48.15brlcadat least, they have tools that they've wrapped over jade in their docbook-utils package
21:48.39brlcadbased off of redhat's docbook-tools package
21:51.33brlcadfound it in ports, installing
21:51.45brlcadyou have an account on the server?
21:52.33starseekerme?  not to my knowledge
21:57.22minutegoodnight
22:01.16starseekernight
22:01.23starseekerah-ha - found it.
22:01.28starseekerHrm.  Docbook 3.1
22:01.34starseekeroh, well - enough for a start
22:02.17starseekerbrlcad:  I think I've gotten the toolchain installed on my Gentoo box, at least most of it - there doesn't seem to be a convenient "docbook-tools" meta-ebuild unless I'm missing something
22:03.06brlcadthere probably is :)
22:03.13brlcadmaybe docbook-utils
22:03.34starseekernope.
22:03.54*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
22:04.22starseekerdocbook-sgml-utils... but we want XML
22:05.24brlcadthat probably works
22:06.08brlcadxml is a subset of sgml, you just provide an xml descriptor instead of docbook, and apply the stylesheet as needed
22:06.46starseekerOK
22:06.50brlcadyeah
22:06.51brlcadhttp://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/DocBook-OpenJade-SGML-XML-HOWTO.html#AEN482
22:07.04starseeker:-)
22:09.31starseekerbrlcad:  I'll take some time and go over Docbook - I've got some terminology to adsorb.  
22:19.21brlcadminute: hrmph, broken you say .. that's no good .. and goodnight!  thanks for fixing the wiki template
22:19.35brlcadi'll try not to break it again too much :)
22:26.01``Erik*yawn*
22:26.22Z80-BoyHmm the research in AI may lead to
22:26.26``Erik<-- digs latex a lot, but would probably go back to sucking fbsd's project wang and imitate their doc sgml setup O:-)
22:26.38Z80-Boyinstead of building something intelligent we realize we all are stupid
22:28.50Z80-Boy"task difficult for computers are easy for humans and vice versa. For example motoric skills are easy for humans" -> didn't feel like that when I was trying to learn to surf
22:29.10Z80-BoyreCaptcha is a good thought though
22:29.30brlcadmore importantly, it's actually effective (so far)
22:30.12Z80-BoyActually do you know that burrows-wheeler algorithm for compression?
22:31.53Z80-Boymaybe concepts - like a table - are not like numbers in out minds, but like pointers.
22:32.06Z80-BoyA table would be like a place in our experience.
22:32.16Z80-BoyOr more exactly a set of closely related places
22:32.38Z80-BoySet of all moments in our life when a table played some role
22:33.31Z80-Boyburrows wheeler can associate between positions in a text without actually knowing into what units it should break the text first to figure out what to match with what
22:34.05Z80-Boyit's a damn simple algoritm - a qsort called on a pointer array where strcmp() is the compare function.
23:48.18*** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj)
23:48.25qazwsxI'm working on a procedural modeling project on LInux, so I'm looking for something that allows me to script in extrusions + boolearn operatons on solid objects / water tight meshes. Blender is not very stable for this ... anyone know how brlcad is for these operations?
23:48.58brlcadheh, it's kinda built for that sort of thing
23:49.25qazwsxreally?
23:49.27brlcadthere's a C api for doing this, with loads of examples in the src/proc-db directory of the source distribution
23:49.34qazwsxvictory is mine
23:49.36qazwsxmuhahahahaha
23:49.54brlcadthere's also a fully-scriptable mged interface that you can script for in Tcl or build up commands from another scripting language
23:50.01qazwsxso this supports things like "here's a 2D curve, make it into a 2D surface", here's a 2D surface, make it into a 3D solid
23:50.12qazwsxand "here are two water tight meshes, give me the intersection / union / difference of them/
23:50.27qazwsx?
23:50.28brlcadyou could work that way, but brl-cad prefers to work predominantly with 3D shapes
23:50.36qazwsxhow do I generate 3D shapes?
23:50.46qazwsx(I'm just starting to compile brlcad right now, in ./configure)
23:50.49brlcadwe have a sketch primitive that you can use for curves and extrusions, but the primitives are better
23:50.56qazwsxcool
23:51.07brlcadwell, do you care about the C api more or the scripting interface?
23:51.12qazwsxsince this project is old, I'm guessing a crappy modern day laptop will be fine for it?
23:51.15brlcadthey're completely different from each other
23:51.19qazwsxI'm familiar from C to scheme, hmmm
23:51.26qazwsxI really care about procedural modeling
23:51.37qazwsxum, what does the C interface give me?
23:51.42brlcadyou can do procedural modeling with either
23:51.50qazwsx(over the scripting langauge)
23:51.52brlcadit gives you speed, and you can hook into libraries
23:52.06brlcadlike if you wanted to tie to simulation codes or something else
23:52.19qazwsxah, no simuation, just generation
23:52.27qazwsxwoot, "make" now :-)
23:52.39brlcadanother example might be using some l-grammar tree library
23:52.57qazwsxI guess the useful documenation will be "3: Principles of Effective Modeling" and "5: Developing Applications"
23:53.00qazwsxas in l-systems?
23:53.02brlcador NN's or GA's or whatever.. if you need to hook to a library or need performance, that's the way to go
23:53.06brlcadyeah
23:53.13qazwsxwhat's NN? neural network? GA? genetic algorithm?
23:53.16brlcadyep
23:53.26qazwsxdumb question: why would I use either NN or GA in modeling?
23:53.58brlcadoh, I could think of a few interesting projects :)
23:54.33qazwsxI can't think of a single reason to use them, so now I'm curious
23:54.37brlcadparticularly a GA simulation driving geometry generation, or propagating agent behavior via geometry
23:54.58brlcadshape recognition, bin packing problems, knapsack problems
23:55.17brlcadlots of possibilities
23:55.27brlcadanyways, pretty aside from the point if that's not what you need :)
23:58.47brlcadso there's lots of scripting possibilities, you can script directly in mged (which is a full tcl shell) or outside mged and generate geometry transcripts
23:58.52``Erikc/scheme? which impl?
23:58.54``Erik<-- scheme geek
23:59.32qazwsxbrl cad supports scheme?
23:59.46``Erikno :( sadly
23:59.53brlcadhere's one example that I recently whipped up in shell script that generates the SGI logo:  http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/sgi.sh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070919

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070919

00:00.24brlcadnot directly, only tcl "directly" -- but you can still produce mged transcripts in anything
00:00.53qazwsxhow easy is it to embed an interactive langauge into brl-cad, say like lua
00:01.04brlcadto use that script, ./sgi.sh | mged -c sgi.g
00:01.13qazwsxi.e. I want to embed a language in brlcad, so I can control brlcad through this langauge? or is this what the tcl interface provides already?
00:01.17``Erikthere're a lot of C functions to cope with
00:01.25``Erikand a lot of the core math stuff is cpp macro
00:01.29``Erikso, uh, not trivial :(
00:01.31brlcadqazwsx: that's pretty much what the tcl interface provides
00:03.19brlcadyou could hook in lua into the C-side of mged without too much trouble, but you would be making a crapload of hooks to expose *all* the possible commands in lua .. to do just a small subset wouldn't be too much trouble though
00:03.32qazwsxgotcha
00:03.49qazwsxwhat's the quickest way to pick up tcl? I'm familiar with asm, c, ruby, python, scheme, ... looking for like the K&R / SICP equiv of tcl
00:03.50brlcadqazwsx: there's also some more scripting examples (both tcl and shell) in the regress/ dir
00:05.21brlcadtcl is pretty straight-forward, it's a relatively simple command language (intentionally simple) where pretty much *everything* is a command (even comments), and it's brace-happy to induce line continuation
00:05.31yukonbobwiki.tcl.tk, "Practical Programming in Tcl and Tk"
00:05.52qazwsxthat book is $60.00 so I guess I'll use the wiki :-)
00:06.05brlcadyeah, that's a decent book, there's also http://wiki.tcl.tk/1304
00:06.18yukonbobbook is a good one if you intend to use tcl at all, though...
00:06.29brlcadhttp://www.beedub.com/book/
00:07.10brlcadoreilly has a pocket reference too that is good
00:07.16yukonbob*where "use" == using semi-seriously.
00:07.28brlcadbut then if you have the manpages installed, you have the book
00:07.42yukonbobotherwise, it's easy to get into, with a few tcl-isms -- so one could just hack at it and see results....
00:07.52qazwsxlol, apt-get is much faster than amazon's shipping
00:13.03qazwsxwow, brlcad took 20+ mins to compile
00:14.31brlcadnow I'm annoyed if it takes more than 5 minutes :)
00:15.38qazwsxhmm, googling got me 0 results on this: ./tclsh: error while loading shared libraries: libOIS-1.0.0.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
00:15.51qazwsxnor does apt-cache search OIS |grep ois show anything interesting; any one now what's wrong?
00:15.54qazwsx(this is from make install)
00:16.33qazwsxoh wait, I think I got it
00:17.20brlcadsounds like you've got a broken tcl installed that it's trying to run?
00:18.00qazwsxno, OIS is some crap left over from OGRE that I hard coded into ~/.bashrc that I have no since removed
00:18.16brlcadah
00:18.22qazwsxdinner; later; thanks for everyone's help :-)
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01:04.09qazwsxso I just installed brlcad ... which one of the 477 apps in /usr/brlcad/bin should I run to get started? :-)
01:04.50louipcmged is fun
01:05.49poolio_beset! although it's not installed.
01:06.00qazwsxlouipc: cool; thanks
01:06.03qazwsxpoolio_: what is beset! ?
01:06.50poolio_broken :)
01:08.23louipchehe
01:20.35qazwsxis there an email list for brlcad too, or is it just this irc channel?
01:20.50louipcyeah there are some mailing lists
01:21.14louipchttp://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=105292
01:24.59qazwsxhmm, archives not nearly as filled as I thought it'd be
01:25.10louipcyeah it's pretty low traffic
01:32.19starseekerOK, I think I'm beginning to see a little.  Being able to write docbook is simply a question of being aware of and using the appropriate environments for any given section of text
01:32.32starseekerthe main difference with html is there are a LOT of pre-defined environments
01:33.07starseekerhttp://personal.riverusers.com/~thegrendel/abs-guide-5.0.tar.bz2 seems to be an example
01:33.24starseekeror more specifically, abs-book.sgml within that archive
01:34.39starseekerThat is a VERY complete de-coupling between content and presentation.
01:35.48starseekerAnd consequently, there is a lot of trust in the tool chain to make the correct typesetting decisions.
01:36.45starseekerbrlcad:  I take it most documentation for BRL-CAD isn't going to need any sort of sophisticated equation typesetting?
01:38.47starseekerI see now why you want to use this - it's probably the single best way I've seen to ensure complete uniformity of appearance.
01:39.03starseeker(given identical tool chains that is)
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01:59.38``Erikdet
01:59.39brlcadstarseeker: yeah, no typesetting
01:59.46brlcadfor equations
01:59.51brlcadat least not anytime soon
02:03.03qazwsxokay, brlcad is awesome; mged is awesome too [eom] :-)
02:03.16starseekerOK.  I'll go over the environments defined by docbook and make a stab at Volume II
02:03.28qazwsxthe whole command interface, and no-save, everything is immmediate interaction is awesome
02:03.34MaloeranI think it's the first time that I see such a great first impression for mged
02:03.45louipchahah D:
02:03.54qazwsxon top of that, the fact that mged has a vi emulation mode clearly states that the people behind it know what they're doing
02:05.22MaloeranSo qazwsx, you are a programmer right? :) I don't think a typical engineer ( or worse, an artist ) could be able to appreciate mged so quickly
02:06.02qazwsxyeah, I'm a programmer :-)
02:06.12qazwsxworking through the mged tutorial right now
02:06.22qazwsxIt's amazingly well designed for something started 20 years ago?
02:06.34qazwsxfor the longest time, I didn't touch the project since I was like it was started 20 years ago, it must be a pos
02:06.39louipc27-28?
02:06.51brlcaddepends when you start counting
02:07.34brlcadmusing and ideas started spinning around '79, first geometry editing was '83, first "public" release was '84
02:07.52MaloeranWell qazwsx, the fact that it begun 27 years ago shouldn't imply that it has remained inactive for the following 25 years
02:08.12louipcI think I played with brlcad maybe 3 yrs ago. I couldn't use the back-space key in mged I think haha
02:08.14brlcadpretty constant development rate
02:08.29brlcadlouipc: on windows?
02:08.33qazwsxis this mged prompt that I'm typing into running tcl?
02:08.40brlcadqazwsx: yes
02:08.42qazwsx(i.e. all the "make, in, draw, ls, erase" commands)
02:09.38brlcadthere's a whole slew of commands added to the tcl environment ("everything in tcl is a command") that relate to geometry editing and other actions
02:09.53brlcadthe mged quick reference on the main page categorizes most of the more important ones
02:10.27louipcbrlcad: I think it was in linux
02:10.45louipcoh no it was the delete key :D
02:10.53louipchttp://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/20050706.html.gz
02:12.07brlcadqazwsx: if you get to the point of writing tcl scripts in mged, you'll have to be aware of the 'set glob_compat_mode' setting, if it's on (which it is by default), then the command interpreter performs globbing on geometry object names and you have to escape the globbing characters that mean something different to tcl
02:13.26brlcade.g. by default you can do "ls *.r" and it'd display a listing of all objects named with a .r suffix -- this is obviously not tcl behavior; similarly with more complex globbing like obj_[0-9]*.s etc .. yet [] mean something different to tcl
02:13.53brlcadso if you're going to write a tcl script, you probably want to turn glob compat mode off so you can do things like: set foo [tops]
02:14.33brlcadlouipc: ah, delete, yeah - i'd believe that.  I think I fixed that shortly after you reported it
02:35.32qazwsxso lesson 4 covers ray tracing ... this is me being picky; is there a way to launch these via commands? (rather than file -> ray trace -> raytrace ?)
03:04.39qazwsxhow do I do the equiv of edit -> setH from the commandline in mged?
03:04.42qazwsxI'm looking at set
03:04.47qazwsxerr, "sed" nad "p", but none of them appear to work
03:14.02brlcad"yes, 'rt -F/dev/Xl'" whenever he gets back
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03:54.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: search the blt dir for headers, needed for archer paths
03:54.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: search the archer paths for blt and the archer tclscripts
03:56.03brlcadqazwsx: yes, run 'rt -F/dev/Xl' (man rt or brlman rt (set your MANPATH) for lots of other ray-trace options)
04:02.50brlcadto do the equiv of edit->Set H you can either run "press "Set H", or turn on the Misc->Faceplate GUI, or run 'ted' to kick off a text editor (be sure EDITOR env var is set) on the params
04:03.40brlcadif you've just run 'in' or 'make' commands, you can 'kill objectname' then up arrow and simply recreate
04:04.26brlcadthe 'p' command lets you set the various values for the various edit options
04:22.48qazwsxwtf, I can simulate clicking on menus?
04:23.07qazwsxand "rt" is just calling the "rt" program on my shell?
04:23.27louipccli rules
04:26.01brlcadyep, rt, rtedge, rtarea, ... etc there are various tracers for different needs
04:27.06brlcadyou can ray-trace into the 3D graphics window using the cli, but it's a little more involved as that integrated framebuffer can be/is turned on/off on demand
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08:38.24Z80-Boybrlcad: with the newly installed brlcad 7.10.3 even the problem with "rt" not drawing anything has disappeared!
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12:44.06``Erik*yawn*
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14:52.44``Eriksrc/mged/animedit.c:3059: Internal compiler error in `gen_tagged_type_instantiation_die', at dwarf2out.c:9308
14:53.42*** join/#brlcad ALVAN (n=jhkjhkj@89.34.187.225)
14:53.48ALVANhi all
14:54.09ALVANsomeone knows a good application like  autocad  but for linux ?
14:55.24Z80-Boyqcad
14:56.21ALVANZ80-Boy, does it supports now 3D ?
14:56.33ALVANas i heard is only works with 2D
14:56.54Z80-Boyno
14:56.57Z80-Boyonly 2d
14:57.48ALVANdo you know another :)?
14:57.52ALVANthat is 3D ?
15:00.11``Erikwhat are you trying to do with it?
15:00.22``Erikautocad is a drafting tool, so 2d is kinda, y'know.. .the point...
15:00.46``Erikhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png   <-- shows the breadth of what people can mean when they say "cad"
15:02.03ALVANi want to make graphs of houses, more like  for mantions
15:02.35``Erik'graphs'? I don't get what exactly you mean
15:02.36ALVANare not for normally houses  ..are for high standard houses
15:03.23``Eriklike rendered pictures?
15:04.18ALVANi better show you one
15:04.22ALVANa sample
15:04.37``Erika picture is worth a thousand and twenty four words
15:07.26ALVANErik http://www.proiectare.net/2006/03/27/vila-tip-a/
15:07.59ALVANnormally i think 2D is good for me too  i do only the last 2 pictures
15:08.00``Erikah, then autocad would be bad, something like povray or perhaps, say, BRL-CAD would be well suited
15:08.30``Erikthe floor-plan images would be better done with something like qcad
15:08.37ALVANcurrently i work with autocad
15:08.40``Erikor a 2d drawing program like gimp
15:08.49Z80-Boylol, 2D plans with a gimp
15:09.46ALVANok thanks i will try qcad as i receive many projects written in autocad and i can convert fine
15:09.49Z80-BoyALVAN: I guess you stay with Autocad - no way how to generate 2D in Qcad and 3D in BRL-CAD from the same source
15:10.35Z80-BoyALVAN: took me 3 days to make a simple 6-edges plate in BRL-CAD for which I had a blueprint in qcad
15:11.20ALVANhm  ok
15:11.35Z80-BoyALVAN: I had to do it by calculating sinuses and cosinuses manually and typing them into commandline
15:11.50Z80-Boy.oO(Advanced Information Technology)
15:12.00ALVANZ80-Boy, manually there is bc for that :)  you need only a script
15:12.10Z80-BoyALVAN: I did in bc
15:12.37ALVANok i presume there is more then only calculations
15:12.58Z80-BoyALVAN: you might however be able to make a thin slice through the house, render it with rtedge and then you would get a "floor plan" without the dimensions
15:13.26Z80-BoyALVAN: in Autocad you can select if you want a 3D or 2D view?
15:13.37ALVANyes you can
15:13.42ALVANby default is 3D
15:14.00ALVANor sometiems depedns of the image
15:14.05Z80-Boyin BRL-CAD, you can't even have dimensions... everything's blind
15:14.27Z80-Boyno way to align one object on another
15:14.32ALVANi did not say i will try BRL-CAD .. icame here for an alternative
15:14.38Z80-Boyor to figure out a point where two things intersect
15:14.42ALVANin waht i saw about it is more like for elctronics
15:15.11Z80-Boyelectronics?
15:15.45ALVANhow electronics boards are made ..but i think i did not read all about it
15:16.03ALVANi just was glad that i found a CAD related channel
15:16.41ALVANi see it knows more  then what i said :)
15:19.05ALVANZ80-Boy,  ok thanks
15:19.38minuteback#
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17:26.28*** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj)
17:28.41qazwsxhere's the latest weird hack I'm trying to do with brlcad -- when I use mged, I'd like to be able to send commands / get results back from mged via a unix pipe ... or a unix msg queue ... I'm not sure where to jump in / start hacking; anyone have pointers?
17:29.16``Erikmged -c blah.g < script
17:30.29qazwsxthis is cool, but isn't interactive right?
17:30.33qazwsxperfecably, I want something like
17:30.39qazwsxmged -c blah.g &; then in another window, I go
17:30.50qazwsxmg-run "in blah.s rcc ..... "
17:30.54qazwsxor mg-run "ls"
17:31.03qazwsxand it sends it over to mged; then prints the results back to stdout to me
17:31.28``Erikwell, -c (classic mode) is interactive and uses stdin/stdout instead of the tcl/t window
17:32.17``Eriklike any interactive stdin/stdout type program, you can attach a stream other than stdin to feed it input, like a pipe or file handle...
17:32.28``Erikfor shits and giggles, try it out :)
17:34.38qazwsxoh wow, cool; thanks, I didn't realize -c meant classic mode, which meant stdin/stdout
17:35.13``Erik:) I tend to use that mode a lot when writing code and testing... gui stuff is a pain
18:03.18*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:04.19Z80-Boybrlcad: I have one problem with mged. I wanted to save the configuration file so I did File -> Create/Update .mgedrc and it said an error message I don't remember what
18:04.35Z80-BoyNow the setup is completely screwed, multipane is away, axes are away.
18:05.13Z80-BoyWhen I set it back and do File -> Create/Update .mgedrc I get an error message Error: can't read "mged default(overstrike_font)":...
18:05.24Z80-Boy[OK] [Skip Messages] [Details>>]
18:06.29Z80-Boymged on startup also prints: "Error reading .mgedrc: can't read "mged_default(zbuffer)": no such element in array while executing "set mged_default(zbuffer) " (file "/home/clock/.mgedrc" line 92)"
18:07.21qazwsxif you mv ~/.mgedrc to ~/.old-mgedrc and rerun mged, will it create a new one for you?
18:07.41Z80-BoyYes
18:07.45Z80-Boythen I can save multipane
18:07.59qazwsxokay, does this solve your problem?
18:08.20Z80-Boybut during saving the mgedrc I still get an error message Error: can't read "mged_default(overstrike_font)":...
18:08.24Z80-BoyYes.
18:08.34Z80-BoyBut there's still an error message every time I save the .mgedrc
18:09.21qazwsxokay, so if you start wiht a fresh .mgedrc, and save multipane, then when u restart mgedrc, you get an error?
18:10.57Z80-BoyIt solves only half of the problem now I see
18:11.22Z80-BoyI can save multipane but when I set up axes in all 4 windows and then do save exit start mged the axes are not there
18:13.46Z80-BoySo the problem is now, how do I make the axes stay over a mged restart?
18:14.52Z80-BoyDelete mged, setup everything at once, save, and pray that I won't need to change anything anymore in the future?
18:15.02Z80-Boymged -> .mgedrc
18:16.12qazwsxsorry, don't know; I started using brlcad about 24 hrs ago :-/
18:34.36Z80-BoyI tried to wipe .mgedrc, then set up panes and axes at once, then save, quit, restart mged.
18:34.47Z80-BoyDoesn't work - only panes are saved, axes are not present.
18:38.45qazwsxthis is a really really really dumb hack
18:38.56qazwsxbut according to man mged you can run a command on startup
18:39.04qazwsxmaybe u can set it up so that this one command sets up everything u need
18:52.57Z80-Boylol
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21:45.10brlcad``Erik: was that internal error from mipspro?
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21:47.15Z80-Boyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eNjUgaB-g <- vector oscilloscope demo
21:47.53Z80-Boybrlcad: my mged cannot save configuration properly
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21:49.19brlcadZ80-Boy: hm, that might be something new since you're working on head
21:49.35brlcadi'll have to give that a try myself -- zbuffer was recently "disabled by default"
21:50.07brlcadthat disabling might have introduced some other problem
22:06.27``Erikbrlcad: gcc, with -O3 on, um, animedit.c or something in mged
22:42.27starseekerbrlcad:  Did you want to use the "book" style for the BRL-CAD manuals?
23:12.08``Erikin theory, any style should be trivial to slap on once the doc is all marked up... no?
23:25.04starseekerin theory, yes
23:25.36starseekerdocbook isn't like anything else I've run into thus far, not even TeX - EVERYTHING gets it's own "label" identifying what it is.
23:25.58starseekerso you have to know what labels are available
23:26.10starseekerfortunately, the docbook site is good for that once you get started
23:26.21starseekerI've begun working on volume two now
23:31.00louipc?? you'e
23:31.08louipcyou're doing it manually?
23:34.11starseekeryep
23:34.18starseekerthat's the only way
23:34.53starseekerNeither the pdf nor the word document have the correct starting information to provide a converter with the "correct" info to make a good docbook document
23:35.00louipcouch
23:35.04starseekeryou'll see when I can post an example
23:35.37starseekerIn some sense, docbook create's a "meta" document - no formatting, but LOTS of info about what each component IS
23:35.51starseekerfor example, an address is composed of components, each of which has its own tag
23:36.55louipcso it all comes down to manual marking up dang
23:47.29``Erikhum
23:47.50``Eriktex likes to label most things, too... the big difference from the jade style docbook I've dorked with (fbsd docs)
23:47.57``Erikis the <p> tag for paragraphs
23:48.34``Erikand tex tends to have more header info, since both the style and content exist in the same file tree
23:48.59``Erikor was it <para>
23:50.56``Erik<para> heh... http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=docs/35140
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070920

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070920

00:08.10*** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj)
00:08.40qazwsxgiven that I have a region/combination ... is there a way for me to tell brlcad to give me a watertight mesh?
00:08.46qazwsx(this I assume is probably C interface land)
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00:35.02``Erikhum
00:49.56starseekerit's doable, but will take time and patience
00:52.19louipcwhat are you doing just adding the right tags here and there?
00:58.37MaloeranCould anyone possibly know what could cause ftp transfer speed to slowly yet continuously drop on LAN transfers? I never figured that out
00:59.09MaloeranIt starts at 12mb/sec, and is now at 2mb/sec after just a hour, still falling
00:59.22starseekerlouipc:  Pretty much
01:00.02starseekerOnce I get through vol2, I'll send it to brlcad, and if he OKs it I'll post it to the list for comment
01:00.17louipcstarseeker: ah ok. I'd try to rig up vim/emacs for hyper speed tag insertion
01:00.33louipccool
01:00.49starseekerlouipc:  That's probably a good idea, but it will come after I've got a good sense of what to insert
01:00.58louipcyeah
01:01.04starseekerright now I'm working with the docbook site on one desktop and the document on another
01:01.14starseekerand the pdf in the third to put the text in context
01:05.10brlcadstarseeker: there are a few docbook structures that would be well suited -- i'm not sure which is really best at this point, treating them as books, or collections of books, or collections of articles, etc .. there are various tradeoffs
01:05.30starseekerbrlcad:  For the moment, I'm going with book
01:05.43brlcadprobably a book for starters, if the "chapters" are each stashed out into their own file(s) then it's a lot easier to change it later
01:05.52starseekerAh.
01:06.14starseekerI'll probably start doing it in one file, then go back and separate it out later
01:06.42brlcadusing xml docbook and xpath, it's fairly straightforward to get sort of #include semantics -- otherwise you have to list things a few times (which isn't too horrible either)
01:07.02brlcadyeah, just *having* it in docbook format is a starter
01:07.23brlcadthen it can be reorganized, updated, make stylesheets for various new formats, etc
01:07.37starseekerbook looks like a decent match so far.
01:07.55starseekerwhen do you want me to send you an example of what I'm doing?  after I finish one of the volumes?
01:07.56brlcadgo for it
01:08.20brlcaderm, if you have an sf.net account, you can just work directly in cvs
01:08.30starseekerOh, OK.
01:08.34brlcadthen it'll be pretty obvious :)
01:08.35starseekerI'm starseeker on sf, IIRC
01:09.00starseekerDidn't know if you wanted me mucking around in cvs yet ;-)
01:09.17brlcadit's cool
01:09.59brlcadso long as the rate is low enough that I can review every commit (which I do), I'm pretty open to just letting new folks get involved
01:10.07starseekerIf I start now, it will basically be starting from the wvText output and gradually becoming actual xml
01:10.09starseekercool :-)
01:10.20brlcadshould read HACKING file in the top-level, has some basic guidelines
01:10.32starseekerOK
01:10.41brlcadlike don't break code if you do go editing code, or do your best to not break the build even when adding new files, etc
01:11.18starseekerright.  Since I won't be touching code yet that's OK, and the build can't be set up for the docs until the docs are processable ;-)
01:11.56brlcadyep
01:11.59starseekerI take it the build will ignore files in doc it doesn't recognize?
01:12.15brlcadand even once they are added, they'll probably be "opt-in" via some --enable-docs option at first
01:12.34starseekerRight.  Particularly if we rely on the external system to have a working docbook chain
01:12.38starseekerthat's quite an assumption
01:12.46brlcadyeah, that's a slew of configure checks
01:13.17brlcadyou're added
01:13.28brlcadpresume you know how to checkout/use cvs?
01:13.53starseekerYep :-)
01:13.55starseekerthanks!
01:14.08starseekerwhere do you want me working?  subdirectory in doc?
01:14.21brlcadyeah, that's probably the place for now
01:15.00brlcaddoc/book perhaps :)
01:15.06starseeker:-)
01:15.37starseekerit would probably be better to have doc/book/vol2 - there will be a fair number of images involved by the end
01:17.30brlcadhm, I was kind of hoping to get away from the "volumes"
01:17.38brlcadthey don't exactly make sense
01:17.48starseekerOh.  OK, that's not a problem
01:18.17starseekerHow were you thinking to structure it?  It's probably easier to set that up from the get-go
01:18.53starseekera "book.xml" file with chapters in their own files?
01:19.15brlcadvol II is basically a bunch of tutorials that build on each other, plus a big command index, plus an 'article' on primitives, plus some other stuff; vol I and vol III are primarily informational though III also has more (moderately advanced) tutorials; IV tells you how to convert stuff ...
01:19.34brlcadthere's very little consistency imo to those groupings and a lot of crossover
01:20.07brlcadsure, that works .. your call since you're the one doing the work :)
01:20.37starseekerOK.  If you like, we can adopt the convention of the "book.xml" file being the control file and putting individual "tutorials"/articles/etc in their own files.  My main concern is not to pollute with a bunch of files that will eventually need to vanish, since that's a pain in cvs...
01:20.42brlcadi'll whine if I see something I really don't like :)
01:20.45starseekerhehe
01:21.13brlcaddon't worry about cvs .. it is afterall going to be gone by end of year :)
01:21.44starseekerTrue :-)
01:23.27starseekerOK, I guess I'll go ahead and put my current "working" file up there.  Even if it is eventually chopped up into other files, at least the markup will be preserved in cvs
01:24.10brlcadyeah, don't be afraid to commit as much as you like, can rarely ever commit too early or too frequently :)
01:24.24starseeker:-)
01:34.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml:
01:34.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: This is the initial text only translation of the original source
01:34.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: document of the BRL-CAD Tutorial Series Volume II - Introduction to MGED.
01:34.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: Despite the extension, it is not a DocBook XML document in its current
01:34.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: form - it is commited in this state only to record the starting point
01:34.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: for the conversion to XML.
01:35.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: Translation was done from Word using wvText from wv-1.2.3
01:36.42``Erikwow, a commit bit already
01:36.50``Eriknow, I have to ask
01:36.53``Erikis it xml, or sgml?
01:36.58starseekerIt will be xml
01:37.18starseekerThat's supposedly the "wave of the future" for docbook
01:37.26starseekerapparently sgml was a bit too complicated
01:38.12starseekerHang on - in a few minutes I'll commit what I've got marked up so far
01:45.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Beginnings of Docbook XML markup.
01:46.35starseekerI'm not sure if we want the PUBLIC tag or if we want to store our own copy - it will depend on the requirements of the toolchain
01:50.38starseekerOK, at least it's a start.  Bedtime for me.  Thanks brlcad!
01:51.12brlcadthank you!
01:51.16brlcadit is a start
01:51.28brlcadthat's the best progress to date ;)
01:51.35starseekerreally?  eeep.
01:51.57brlcadwell, you'd see docbook files lying around had others gotten further
01:52.07starseekerpoint
01:52.16brlcadI've set this same up for other projects, but just not for cad ..
01:53.13starseekerI think the BRL-CAD files will actually map rather well to this, based on progress so far.
01:53.47starseekerIt looks like whoever wrote the original word files was using the same conventions that Docbook modeled off of
01:53.55starseeker(caution, information, etc.)
01:55.50brlcadat this point, shouldn't matter
01:55.58starseekerCool.
02:09.07starseekerbrlcad:  Do we want to keep using the screenshots in the original documents or are updated ones in order?
02:15.14brlcadupdated ones are in order for some of them, particularly the menu shotw
02:16.41starseekerOK.  I can only take them on Linux though - is that OK or do we want Windows shots?
02:18.46brlcadit should be fine
02:18.50starseekerCool :-)
02:19.02brlcadthey were originally taken on linux anyways
02:19.17starseekerAh :-).  
02:20.02brlcadheh
02:20.41brlcadwindows gets by far the most downloads, but most of the users (at least that I interact with) are on linux and mac os x
02:21.44starseekerMaxima was like that too, IIRC.
02:22.25brlcadjust shows how much a demand there is in the open source realm.. and how much better we need to be doing on usability
02:22.43starseekerI was somewhat surprised to see SALOME had another release
02:23.06starseekerI wish I knew what they were good at but building the sucker is a nightmare
02:24.07starseekerbrlcad:  Do you think the UI will stay with TCL/TK for the foreseeable future?  (just curious)
02:24.11louipcbah windows users just don't get it
02:26.15starseekerlouipc:  They have an expectation of everything being GUI, that's for sure...
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02:26.44louipchehe yeah that's for sure.
02:26.44starseekerTo be fair about it though, most open source stuff doesn't present a good front on Windows - it's a real challenge
02:27.38starseekerFor almost every Maxima release getting it working on Windows was the major stumbling block.
02:28.16starseekermingw is an adventure...
02:28.19louipcyeah windows doesn't provide a good environment
02:28.42starseekerDoes BRL-CAD build using mingw and friends or more normal tools?
02:28.48louipchehe I love mingw, I can kind of pretend I'm not in windows anymore
02:29.02louipcstarseeker: there was a guy doing builds in cygwin
02:29.07starseekerouch
02:29.38starseekerCygwin is great if you want to turn Windows into a pseudo-Unix box, but for distributing binaries it has a lot of overhead...
02:29.41louipcI think there's an intent to build it in mingw if it hasn't been achieved already
02:30.53starseekerthe build instructions had to specify specific versions of each component, and if you were forced to use newer ones it was a whole new problem...
02:31.14starseekerOf course, that was back when Win98 still had to be taken into account...
02:31.32louipcyeah win98 caused issues
02:32.06starseekeroops
02:32.07louipcI built tcl/tk in mingw!
02:32.16louipcin win98!
02:32.18starseekertcl/tk is great for portability
02:32.27starseekerit just feels funny ;-)
02:32.56starseekerActually, the most useful free Lisp graphical binding currently is to TK...
02:33.03starseekergood stuff
02:33.34louipcyeah there's a bunch of good things like that
02:34.44MaloeranFrom what I heard, tcl/tk is very lacking in widgets and flexibility
02:35.11MaloeranAlthough I haven't personally used it, I heard from people who needed to write extra widgets constantly
02:35.25louipchow about +itcl, itk, iwidgets ?
02:36.33MaloeranHaven't tried them, I'm not much into GUIs...
02:36.51Maloerangtk2 is quite nice though
02:41.59louipcthat's quite a flip-flop eh?
02:42.08starseekerHehe
02:42.34louipcsounds kind of like how I'd do things :P I have trouble programming from scratch because I've little experience
02:42.42starseekerI was going to ask if Paraview would be a logical starting point for interface/visualization code to hook up to BRL-CAD, but I see the latest version has now moved to QT
02:44.06starseekerWell, 2.6 still used tcl/tk
02:44.07starseekerthought so
02:44.31louipcneat ARL contributed to it
02:44.36starseeker:-)
02:44.58louipcor "contrinuted" to it
02:47.16louipclooks like it's client/server. just the latest client is in QT
02:47.37starseekerQT4 + VTK ~= drool ;-)
02:48.23louipchaha it has 6 different licenses?
02:49.18starseekerthey're using a lot of libs ;-)
02:49.51starseekerThey must bundle like BRL-CAD does.
02:50.05starseekerIn fact, that explains what the ebuild guys where talking about with external libs
02:53.33starseekerIs it considered "bad taste" to discuss GUI questions?
02:53.46louipcI don't think so
02:54.50louipcindeed
02:55.47starseekerVTK definitely rules the roost for "looks" in the open source candidates I've seen, but I don't know how well it would do for interactive CAD type scenarios
02:56.17starseekerLOL - yep, Paraview is building it's own copy of VTK
02:56.49starseekerat least they seem to be willing to try to use the system QT4...
02:57.49starseekerWell, later all!
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03:16.16brlcadlouipc: I've built everything under mingw in the past, only required a few minor edits at the time
03:17.44brlcadstarseeker: TBD really, MGED won't likely drop Tk anytime soon .. but a new modeling interface could certainly use something different
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05:48.18Z80-Boywhat's the command to turn *model* axes on in all four panes? I could try to put it into the .mgedrc manually
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15:32.58MaloeranUrgh, one USD is now worth less than one CAD. Just five years ago, 1CAD was worth 0.62USD
15:34.53minuteCAD
15:34.54minute?
15:36.24Z80-Boypaid in BRL-CADs
15:57.04minute?
15:59.51MaloeranCanadian Dollars
16:04.05minuteoh, cool
16:04.19minuteor not as the case may be
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16:30.10``Erikheh
17:27.56qazwsxdoes brlcad generate meshes of the parts before rendering, or does it just render it directly? (i.e. I'm hoping to use brlcad as a csg library and do my rendering in opengl with the meshes)
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20:32.39Z80-Boybrlcad: would it be possible to model a water wave, like the surfer's dream tube, in brl-cad and then render it with Sun?
20:33.15Z80-BoyWhat primitive would be suitable to render irregularly wrinkled, twisted surface?
20:33.33Z80-BoyThat can't be done with extrusion since it's curled up.
20:37.13Z80-Boydsp?
21:13.02yukonbobdsp alone won't have  a "curl" where there are two different levels of water (ie: water level, and curling crest of wave above it at same Z axis)
21:13.58yukonbobs/same Z axis/ on Z axis at same X,Y/
21:35.45Z80-Boydsp takes some file but the format is mystery
21:35.54Z80-Boyseems it's neither binary file nor a text file
21:36.03Z80-Boytried both and neither worked
21:40.52pooliobrlcad: heard of randy pausch?
21:42.31yukonbobZ80-Boy: it's a matrix of unsigned 16-bit ints.
21:43.32Z80-Boycan the file be longer than needed?
21:51.24Z80-Boyit works, cool
21:51.32Z80-Boyneeds just exact size
21:51.35Z80-Boywidth*height*2
21:52.37yukonbob"*2" == file byte size, but ea. datum is the 16bit (2byte) int value.
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23:10.34qazwsxis thre a way to export modesl out of brlcad as meshes?
23:16.02``Eriksorta, yes
23:16.05qazwsxgreat
23:16.10qazwsxtell me the direction please
23:16.12``Erikbut it can be a very slow process, O(n^3)
23:16.17qazwsxthat is fine, no need to be real time
23:16.30qazwsxhow does this work? which prog?
23:16.30``Erikthe NMG routines convert, um, look at things liek g-stl and those
23:17.11``Erikg-nmg is also one to look at
23:18.05qazwsxyeah, that looked alot more useful than stereo :-)
23:18.58``Erikum, stl is a simple triangle mesh format
23:20.08qazwsxsorry, what's a "NMG" ?
23:20.32``Erikn-manifold geometry
23:20.48qazwsxokay, I'm an idiot
23:20.50qazwsxg-stl is what I want
23:20.52``Erikyou'd probably be more interested in BOTs
23:20.55``Erikbag of triangle
23:20.57qazwsxthanks, the whole stereo thing threw me off
23:21.09qazwsx-b gave me a binary file
23:21.11``Erik*shrug* it does sound odd... and n/p :)
23:21.33qazwsxwait, sorry, what does BOT offer me over stero's list of triangles?
23:21.38qazwsxI'm greedy, and want the best solution :-)
23:24.50``Eriknothing? both are sets of triangles, just in a slightly different output format
23:25.30qazwsxokay, just checking
23:26.09qazwsxplease forgive me newbiness: can you tell me which one of the 400+ cmd line utilities will let me query about a *.g database file like I can in mged? stuff like "ls blah.g" or
23:26.12qazwsxl blah.s
23:35.57``Erikmged....
23:36.05``Erikmged -c blah.g tops
23:36.08``Erikmged -c blah.g l blah.s
23:37.15qazwsxtoh, I can specify a single command oh right
23:37.16qazwsxthanks :-)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070921

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070921

00:19.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup complete through Lesson 1.
00:22.14starseeker<author>starseeker</author><speaking voice="mutter">is going to be dreaming of markup</speaking><emoticon>;-)</emoticon>
00:25.17louipc<slang type="internet">LOL</slang> ?
00:27.09starseekerIt was OK until I looked at how far I had to go ;-)
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09:18.39Z80-Boybrlcad: you said it's possible to make a cartoon-style pen drawing rendering by overlaying rt and rtedge output by <i_forgot_the_name> command.
09:19.00Z80-BoyBut that means calculating twice as long. Is it possible that the output be generated only by a single calculation?
09:25.48MaloeranI wouldn't have expected rtedge to take as long as the raytrace
09:26.09Z80-Boygood
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11:56.56MaloeranDoes anyone know the origin of this famous picture/video where a man walks in front of a column of tanks and manage to stop it during a military parade?
11:57.06MaloeranOr any other information that might be relevant
12:03.55brlcadeh, that was the infamous Tiananmen Square protest
12:03.59brlcadback in 1989
12:05.10brlcadZ80-Boy: pixmatte or pixmerge
12:07.46MaloeranRight I got it, thanks
12:10.53MaloeranSeems hard to order a print of this picture in order to frame it
12:17.00brlcadprobably because it's copyrighted :)
12:17.05brlcadhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4727787930108202470
12:17.48MaloeranWell sure, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to pay for it :)
12:20.45MaloeranI guess I'll have to find something else
12:22.53brlcadhttp://cgi.ebay.com/TIANANMEN-SQUARE-TANKS-CHINA-TANK-MAN-24x34-POSTER_W0QQitemZ190154453851QQcmdZViewItem
12:23.52MaloeranOh :), looks like I wasn't looking at the right place
12:24.36brlcadhttp://www.popartuk.com/photography/the-unknown-rebel-pp0893-poster.asp
12:25.31brlcadmaybe just what you're searching on, he is known as "tank man"
12:25.38MaloeranI happen to really wonder how I had my keywords wrong
12:25.45MaloeranI tried that too
12:29.55MaloeranThanks brlcad, I'm getting it shipped
12:31.17Z80-Boybrlcad: could you please advise on the problem I have with saving the config file?
12:45.30brlcadZ80-Boy: I did, day before yesterday..  probabaly a recently introduced problem (like as of last week)
12:45.59brlcadremember that you're working off of head now, you've got the latest .. and I think that problem seems related from what you said it was complaining about (z clipping)
12:46.20brlcadtest would be to revert the zclipping change and see if that makes a difference
12:46.45brlcadi'll have to dig through the changelog to see what exactly that change was
12:52.57Z80-BoyDo you think the videos would look better if rtedge-style contours were overlaid over the picture?
13:09.08``Erik('cept with tank dude, he was drug into the crowds by onlookers and thousands of people died in chinas response to a peaceful hunger strike)
13:20.07``Erikz80: there are a few options, I don't think you'd like any of 'em... 1) raytrace both the image and the rtedge copy and merge 'em 2) raytrace the image and pass the output through a sorbel filter (like in imagemagick or gimp) and compose them, 3) write a new shader that does it for ya
13:20.50``Erikcell shader might be a fun project *scratches chin*
14:04.58Z80-BoyI have set compile flags CFLAGS to -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe
14:05.11*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548755B2.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:05.12Z80-BoyDoes it take effect during brl-cad compilation or does BRL-CAD set it's own optimizer flags?
14:05.22Z80-BoyI have a feeling that the rendering is very slow
14:08.04Z80-BoyIs there a man rt?
14:09.04``Erikyes
14:09.12``Erikthere is a manpage
14:09.16Z80-Boyman rt, brlman rt - nothing
14:09.37``Erikand um, unless you do --enable-optimized, CFLAGS will be respected
14:09.57``Erikactually, CFLAGS will still be repected, but enable-optimized glues most stuff to it like -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer ...
14:10.07``ErikMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man rt
14:10.26``Erikerm, that's bourne style, uh, I dunno how to do it in csh
14:10.27Z80-Boyso there are already 3 different methods to get a manpage
14:10.33``Erikwell
14:10.40``Erikman searches $MANPATH
14:10.55``Erikso adding /usr/brlcad/share/man to the MANPATH is how to make normal man work
14:11.07``Erik<-- doesn't use brlman, which I THINK just adds to MANPATH and calls man
14:12.41Z80-BoyWhen I add  /usr/brlcad/share/man to /etc/man.conf, it still doesn't work
14:12.49Z80-BoyMaloeran: is there a faster rt?
14:12.59``Erikindeed, brlman is a simple shell script, heh
14:13.03Z80-Boydoes it use linked lists to search for the primitives?
14:13.05MaloeranWell, mine's quite fast but it's not integrated into BRL-CAD
14:13.05``Erikthat adds stuff to MANPATH
14:13.27``Erikyours doesn't do the large set of implicite primitives nor csg operations, mal... :)
14:13.40MaloeranPft, long live triangles! :)
14:13.47``Erikhehehe
14:14.04Maloeran50-100fps on raytracing is still amusing
14:14.09``Erikok, lets model a sphere and see who gets more accurate results and a smaller data file :)
14:14.11Z80-BoyYou cannot make a cylinder, torus, sphere, ellipsoid, paraboloid or cone from triangles no matter how many triangles you use.
14:15.00MaloeranYou can get close enough so that the fact that triangles are used has no impact on the rendering
14:15.10MaloeranYou would still use CSG, just convert to triangles for rendering
14:15.11``Erikoh, and lets talk engineering precision, not visual precision, we can talk about accepting 10 micrometers of error on a motor vehicle sized thing :)
14:15.31``Erikbecause, y'know, we want it for engineering purposes, not just pretty pictures
14:16.14MaloeranI never really got into the weird curved triangle surfaces I described long ago, it would have been nice for raytracing
14:16.36MaloeranReasonably fast to intersect for rays, much more friendly to describe curved surfaces
14:17.00Z80-Boyfor that I need to figure out the lights
14:17.17Z80-Boyand that means again finding out that everything I stumble upon is insufficiently documented to be able to work with
14:17.32``Erikdidja get the rt manpage up?
14:17.36Z80-Boyno
14:17.42Z80-Boyonly with explicit prefix
14:17.43``Erikwhere is brlcad installed to?
14:17.47``Erikoh, so you did, heh
14:17.50Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad
14:18.04Z80-Boyno I don't want to type half a line prefix every time I run man
14:18.16Z80-Boyeverything in the system works on man, only BRL-CAD is a specialty
14:18.23``Eriktake a look at the brlman script, it SHOULD stay 'MANPATH="/usr/brlcad/man"' somewhere in it?
14:18.30``Erikand, uh, you can set the environment variable
14:18.46``Eriksetenv MANPATH $MANPATH:/usr/brlcad/share/man     # for csh
14:18.53MaloeranAh, it's horrible.  You must begin to find me annoying with that, but I'm still unable to focus, think and work, love has completely messed up my mind
14:18.57Z80-Boybut brlman rt doesn't work
14:18.58``Erikexport MANPATH=$MANPATH:/usr/brlcad/share/man  # for sh
14:19.31``Erikyour  brlman may be ... odd... did you move your install? it's a pretty simple shell script
14:19.48``Erikmebbe you don't have awf?
14:20.15``Erikoh, shoot, I brought my parallels cd back, so I can reinstall it and run obsd41 again, I'll try to take a look at it :D lemme go get it out of my car
14:20.16Z80-Boywihcclock@kestrel:~$ awf                  
14:20.16Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/bin/awf: must specify -ms or -man
14:20.35``Erikum
14:20.37Z80-Boythe brlman script is somehow complicated inside
14:20.51``Erikcomplicated? O.o
14:20.57Z80-Boydoes it work on your OpenBSD?
14:21.07Z80-Boyit looks for
14:21.12Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man
14:21.12``ErikI dunno, it's a vm and I need to reinstall the vm software to start it
14:21.15Z80-Boy${path_to_this}/../share/brlcad/7.10.3/man
14:21.19Z80-Boy${path_to_this}/../man
14:21.23Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man
14:21.27Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/man
14:21.42Z80-Boywhat's the point of having brlcad twice on the path?
14:21.55``Erikand what does "find /usr/brlcad/ -name rt.1" tell you?
14:22.10Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/share/man/man1/rt.1
14:22.21``Erikiiiinteresting
14:22.28``Erikyour brlman is broken, wonder how that happened
14:22.34Z80-Boybrlman rt mdoesn't do anything
14:23.05Z80-BoyI just downloaded 1.10.3 from CVS compiled installed
14:23.15Z80-Boybefore that I deleted /usr/brlcad to make sure there isn't anything left over
14:23.50Z80-BoyWhat I don't understand is why man doesn't work when I add that directory to man.conf
14:25.31``Erik<-- not sure, perhaps it's cached somewhere? do ya need to rebuild the whatis db or something?
14:26.02Z80-Boyman man.conf doesn't contain the word "rebuild"
14:27.44Z80-BoyStill doesn't work
14:27.56``Erikinteresting
14:28.21``Erikis it read on login? if you ssh into your own box or hop down to a vc and do a fresh login, does it work?
14:28.52Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~$ ssh clock@localhost
14:28.52Z80-Boy@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
14:28.52Z80-Boy@    WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!     @
14:28.52Z80-Boy@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
14:29.15Z80-BoyThe sole purpose of this message is to make sure people will ignore a man in the middle attack in the case it really happens
14:29.24``Erikheh, regenerated sshd keys since you last logged into yourself, aapparently
14:30.02Z80-Boyif this happens I delete ~/.ssh/known_hosts and always enter "yes" without even looking at the fingerprint
14:30.30Z80-BoyIf ssh was designed to be secure, they would make sure man in the middle attack is reported only when the key doesn't match and not every other day.
14:30.45Z80-BoyNo, it doesn't work even through ssh.
14:30.56``Erikwhat's "manpath" tell you?
14:31.09Z80-Boybash: manpath: command not found
14:31.33``Erikhuh
14:31.47``Erik<-- fbsd user, not obsd... :)
14:33.10``Erikffs, stupid fucking corporate image fucking bullshit... brb
14:56.31``Erik*yawn*
14:56.56brlcadZ80-Boy: it probably would look better, usually does (rtedge overlay)
14:57.43Z80-Boybrlcad: any idea, why my "brlman rt" doesn't work, and why I cannot save the config file?
14:57.56Z80-BoyCan the CVS code be in an inconsistent state?
14:58.04``ErikBRLCAD_ROOT and BRLCAD_PREFIX were expanded wrong in generating brlman
14:58.26``Erik<-- sorta kinda seen similar differences in expansion on fbsd, is checking out a fresh cvs copy on obsd41 now
14:58.36Z80-Boy``Erik: cool
14:58.57``Erikyes
14:59.33``Eriksucks, cuz every day I want to use it, I have to install, reboot, let it upgrade, reboot again, THEN I can use it
15:01.41brlcadZ80-Boy: damn, I've answered you three times on the config file now... :)
15:01.43Z80-Boylooks like brlman <anything> doesn't work
15:01.48Z80-BoyIt definitely worked before
15:01.54brlcadit's a recent problem .. probably VERY recent
15:02.12Z80-Boybrlcad: what were the previous 2 answers? Also "damn"? :)
15:02.20brlcadjust has to be looked at, and nobody has looked at it yet
15:02.25Z80-Boyaha
15:02.33``Eriksed -i.bak 's,brlcad/7.10.3/,,' /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman
15:02.36``Erik*cough*
15:02.47brlcaddamn frustrating that you've asked the same thing three time and ignored or missed my responses each time to which I answered
15:02.51Z80-Boysed: unknown option -- i
15:02.57``Erikwow, obsd sucks
15:03.02Z80-BoyI don't remember I got the response
15:03.08brlcadexactly my point
15:03.33``Erikmv /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman /tmp/ && sed s,brlcad/7.10.3/,, /tmp/brlman > /usr/brlcad/bin/brlman && rm /tmp/brlman
15:03.48Z80-Boybrlcad: is there a command I could write manually into the .mgedrc to turn model space axes on in all 4 multipanes?
15:03.59brlcadalso, the manpath issue really is just a basic system setup problem -- brlman should also work, but so should man
15:04.05Z80-Boylooks like .mgedrc consists of commands
15:04.12brlcadthere's absolutely nothing special about the manpath that is special to brl-cad
15:04.20brlcadit's just another path like any other
15:04.49Z80-Boydoes it mean it's not a bug of BRL-CAD?
15:05.06``Erikfor using 'man'? no, it's an issue with openbsd's man, probably user error
15:05.10brlcadthat brlman doesn't work is a problem in brlman, yes
15:05.14``Erikbrlman not working IS our stick, though
15:05.18brlcadbut that man doesn't, heck no .. that's a problem between you and your OS
15:05.22brlcadpebkac
15:05.49brlcadalready noted
15:06.02``Erikc'mon, dude, you use obsd, you should know more than the average clueless linux dork ;) *duck*
15:06.07brlcadit works here, so it's gotta be something obsd specific I'm guessing
15:06.26``Erikwell, it relates to something I saw on fbsd
15:06.30Z80-Boybrlcad: there are things like "set mged_default(max_text_lines) 10000" -> is there something like "set multipane(all_windows)"?
15:06.34brlcadfire up ssh access again, and I"ll look at it
15:06.47Z80-Boybrlcad: evening
15:06.47``Erikremember when I was asking if you'd mucked with the datadir ?
15:06.51``Erik<-- running his obsd vm
15:06.57``Erik<-- looking into it right now... *cough*
15:07.01Z80-Boybrlcad: now I am behing the No Access Translator
15:07.46brlcadwhenever, there's just only so much that can be done when the problem seems to be limited to just that environment .. what were your configure options?
15:08.09Z80-Boyno options just ./configure
15:11.32brlcadthen yeah, probably just some shell assumption in the brlman script .. what does "which awf" report?
15:11.58``Erikheh
15:12.02``Erikscroll up, brlcad
15:12.06``Erikwe already know the issue
15:12.28brlcadwe do?
15:12.49``Erikyes, BRLCAD_DATA was expanded weird, perhaps between two seperate configure runs
15:13.08brlcadoh, the share/man
15:13.14``Erikin his installed brlman, he has MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.10.3/man and his man files are in /usr/brlcad/share/man/
15:15.55Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~$ which awf
15:15.55Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/bin/awf
15:16.46Z80-Boycan you please turn on axes in multipane, save the .mgedrc and then find the magical command in .mgedrc which turns the multipanes on?
15:17.21brlcadyou can be really impatient, you know that? :)
15:17.32brlcaddo you want me to look at the brlman thing, or the multipane thing?
15:17.46Z80-Boybrlcad: don't you remember the command by hart?
15:18.00brlcadhah, of course not
15:18.32``Erik<-- already on the brlman thing... O.o
15:18.32Z80-Boyis there some list of these commands somewhere?
15:18.34brlcadif I knew it by heart, don't you think I would have said something an hour ago when you first mentioned it? :)
15:18.46Z80-Boyno
15:18.53brlcador half-hour, whenver it was
15:19.09brlcadwell, i would have
15:19.19Z80-Boysometimes I get an impression that you cannot process things fast enough from me and skip some of them
15:19.25brlcadyou can't keep a million lines in context *all* the time
15:19.52``Erik<-- lucky to keep 4 :D
15:20.51brlcadZ80-Boy: I DO skip them.. when you start complaining about a new issue.  if you don't I'm still working on the problem or something that I was working on before you reported the issue
15:20.59``Erik(building automake shtuff on obsd41, has a fresh cvs co to test this crap on)
15:21.05brlcadall a matter of priorities.. I can't just drop everything when you can't figure out how to set your own MANPATH ;)
15:22.08Z80-Boylol :)
15:23.43brlcad``Erik: I suspect it's just a matter of default manpath (in Makefile, after configure) is set to prefix/man instead of datadir/man .. quick fix should be to just add a search dir for BRLCAD_ROOT/man to brlman.in
15:24.24brlcadas well as 'maybe' set mandir when datadir is changed in configure.ac .. dunno, that seems kinda error prone
15:24.26``Erikpossibly, let me get a full-on build on obsd... last time, I just copied the directory from fbsd, so I didn't have all the auto crap in
15:24.35``Erikand I'm seeing... interesting behavior out of autogen.sh right now :)
15:24.58brlcadoh?  ran fine for me on z80's obsd
15:25.12``Erikyes, he has some stuff set up that I don't
15:25.31``Erik<--- starting from a bare install with default environment
15:26.19brlcadoh right, it does search brlcad_root/man already .. it's not just prefix/man .. default must be something like pkg_datadir/man or something
15:27.02brlcadwell, I did have to set the env vars that the autoconf/automake scripts bitched about, but that was pretty benign
15:27.12``Erikthat's what I'm looking at
15:27.29``Erikyou have the variables set in autogen.sh, but you comment "2.52 or better", and never checkk for "better"
15:28.32``Erikbleh, I'll just set the variables and move on :)
15:28.56brlcadhm?  it does a minimum check
15:29.41``Erik"AUTOMAKE_VERSION=1.9 AUTOCONF_VERSION=2.59 LIBTOOL_VERSION=1.5.22 ./autogen.sh" works, ./autogen.sh does not, complains that it cannot find autoconf
15:30.21brlcadsetting the env vars is imposed by the obsd wrappers, there's not really any way to compensate -- they don't report a version, so autogen.sh can't identify them as autoconf
15:30.28Z80-Boy``Erik: yes on OBSD you have set these annoying variables before calling any auto-crap tool
15:30.31brlcadfrom the scripts perspective, that is not autoconf, and it's right
15:30.46brlcadit's a wrapper .. and that wrapper doesn't work until the var is set
15:31.00``Erikfreebsd used to require calling them at autoconf259 and automake19 before they pulled their heads out of their asses, heh
15:31.11Z80-Boylol
15:32.36``Eriknow they have wrappers that search for 'best version' if not being told which to use
15:32.53brlcadI thought about whether there was anything automatic that can be done for the vars, like try auto-setting AUTOCONF_VERSION=minimum_version_here .. and reinvoking autogen.sh for the user, but that won't work -- the wrapper expects that specific version
15:33.27brlcadso you'd have to do a locate or have a table of possibilities, and that's nfg
15:35.57brlcadlast mult
15:36.11``Erik/bin/ls `which automake`-* | sort -n | tail -n 1 | sed 's/.*-//'
15:36.26Z80-Boy1.9
15:36.32brlcadyeah, that seems exceptionally "nfg" to me :)
15:36.39``Erikheh, that was for brlcad, not you, clock :)
15:37.05Z80-BoyBut it works even on OpenBSD, which is impressive.
15:37.06brlcadmaybe if another OS does the same thing
15:37.54Z80-Boy``Erik: into which script would this autodetect code have to go?
15:38.06Z80-Boyautogen? configure?
15:38.13brlcadautogen.sh
15:38.15``ErikI'd imagine autogen.sh, but brlcad doesn't like it, so *shrug* obsd suffers for being an outlyer
15:38.35Z80-Boybut that's because I ran autogen.sh on OpenBSD?
15:38.43brlcadit's also not "the obsd way" .. they apparently want their users to set those env vars
15:38.50``Erikn/m some of the horrors in the code to just support irix, or just support unicos :D
15:38.54Z80-BoyIf the developer ran it on Linux, made a sharp version I loaded the sharp versionf rom a .tgz and compiled, then it would work, right?
15:39.21brlcad``Erik: except NONE of them to date resort to scanning the filesystem or relying on things like makewhatis
15:39.23``Erikyes, if you ran autogen.sh on linux, it'd "just work", same for most os's
15:39.34Z80-BoyOr could the script say "autoconf not foung please make sure that if you type autoconf you get autoconf running, on OpenBSD you have to set up some obscure variables"?
15:40.38brlcadI thought about adding the same searching for freebsd when they would install the bin/autoconf-* without the symlinks .. but in the end the user really still needs to add that symlink regardless
15:41.22Z80-BoyDoes the autogen.sh require that "autoconf" runs Autoconf and not some bloody script that prints an error message?
15:41.24``Erikbut fbsd has 8 users, that's a lot more than the 3 of obsd ;) *duck*
15:41.30Z80-Boylol :)
15:41.39Z80-BoyTheo de Raadt, me and who's the third one?
15:42.00``ErikI forget the name, but he pipes up in #bsdcode on efnet once in a while
15:42.02``Erik:D
15:42.50``Erik(unless you do kernel or core system development, you probably don't want to go there, they make ME seem like a well-mannered politic sweatheart)
15:43.16brlcadhey, if you can think of a way to get it to just work without searching, I'm all for addin git
15:43.28brlcads/n g/ng /
15:44.50``Erikno, I think there has to be some form of scan, either by looking at ${PREFIX}/bin/automake-* or /var/db/pkg/automake* and searching for a 'sufficient' version :/
15:45.09Z80-BoyBut I had the variables set
15:45.29``Erikobsd's wrappers do not perscribe to the princeple of least surprise.
15:45.41``Erikfor a non-obsd person, at least
15:46.06Z80-Boyhmm I found this
15:46.23Z80-Boy$id.menubar.modes.axes add checkbutton -offvalue 0 -onvalue 1\ 1731                         -variable mged_gui($id,model_draw) -label "Model" -underline 0\ 1732                         -command "mged_apply $id \"rset ax model_draw \$mged_gui($id,model_draw)\""
15:46.32Z80-Boywhat should I type into the .mgedrc?
15:46.45Z80-Boymged-apply 0 rset ax model_draw, and also for 1 2 3?
15:58.38``Erikiiiiinteresting
16:13.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/brlman/brlman.in: search the defined "mandir", too
16:24.57``Erikawf is a skeery beast O.o
16:27.53Z80-Boy``Erik: do you have axes turned on in your .mgedrc? could you please post it?
16:28.39``ErikI have no .mgedrc
16:30.13Z80-Boywhat's the new linux kernel development? All version numbers development"
16:30.55``Erikheh, so the two branches of linux development are alpha and pre-alpha? :D
16:31.49Z80-Boyno they are pre-pre and pre-school.
16:32.13Z80-BoyLinux is for teletubbies.
16:32.32Z80-BoyThey can't even figure out kernel interface description.
16:33.27``Erikheh
16:34.23``Erikthey have a weird behavior in ioctl that I've seen horrible horribly abused in drivers, and the driver writers (nvidia) didn't seem to understand why what they did was wrong, cuz it seemed to work on linux...
16:35.06``Erikspeaking of shit-talking on linux... cjohnson has a fun article comparing linux to fbsd in the mid 90's :) ummmm
16:35.09Z80-Boy``Erik: can you please turn multipane on, set axes to model in all four, then save .mgedrc and grep for model_draw in the .mgedrc and paste me the magic lines I should add to get it? Thanks...
16:35.45Z80-Boylinux is becoming the microsoft of free software :)
16:36.00Z80-BoyTorvalds has sexappeal similar to Gates.
16:36.47MinuteElectronGates? sexappeal? lol
16:38.48``Erikheh, clock,I have no idea how to use the program :D I got it i n multipane mode, and I have the axis star on one pane... now I'm stuck, and I have no idea how to save an .mgedrc :D
16:39.11``Erikand the cheat card isn't hleping me O.o
16:40.03``Erikcool, 'create/update .mgedrc' in the menu gives me an error
17:02.44``Erik"Linux has the feeling of a bunch of dos crackers getting together and putting together a Unix box, with out ever having seen a Unix box before. The kernel has a very "dos" feel to it. The console feels very much like a dos console. The whole thing has an undercurrent of dos like contamination running through it."
17:03.02``Erikhehehe
17:03.36``Erikhttp://www.cyberpaladin.com/~cjohnson/#report
17:03.57``Erikback when I was a hardcore linux zea^Wadvocate
17:09.13yukonboboverheard on #tcl:
17:09.22yukonbobSpeaking of Linux... did you ever wonder what it would take to justify a 3.x kernel?
17:09.32yukonbobsomething worth using?
17:14.24``Eriknaturally, you're suffering a hypochondriadic amplification, since you went and researched it...
17:14.55MaloeranYou believe so? I thought I observed the symptoms long before researching the subject
17:15.18``Erikthat's why I said amplification... :D
17:15.19MaloeranSurvice is going to be annoying with my severe drop in productivity if I don't fix that quickly
17:15.26Maloeranto be annoyed*
17:16.10``Erikhum, slashdot has a 'real-time raytracing' headline up
17:19.44*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-009-097.pools.arcor-ip.net)
17:51.30*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
17:51.30*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
18:08.20brlcadyukonbob: i've heard both with respect to tcl/tk versioning, and from folks in #tcl, so I'm not really sure whom to believe (not that it matters a whole lot, it'll be what it is when they release of course)
18:11.07brlcadbut yeah, the last I'd heard, 8.5 would be their "final" when alpha/beta testing completes
18:24.45*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:26.11brlcadexcellent
18:26.34brlcadwould be something good to add to the wiki for others later
18:27.31Z80-BoyBut it's just a workaround for my immediate problem
18:27.39Z80-BoyI guess when you fix it it won't be necessary anymore
18:28.11Z80-BoyIs there something like rtedge, but doing a wireframe?
18:29.44``ErikI don't think any accurate wireframe stuff is in BRL-CAD... the wireframe display in mged is a basic approximation and does no CSG solving
18:38.35Maloeranhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/6993762.stm
18:38.41Z80-BoyWhen I turn on the grid, what unit is a square?
18:38.51Z80-BoyIt doesn't seem to be neither 10 units nor anything similar
18:41.22Z80-BoyI think if I should choose the coolest software in the world, it would be BRL-CAD...
18:42.05Z80-BoyDevelopment started 1979, very oldskool, lots of unimagined possibilities, binary file format, very cool clean rendering thanks to CSG
18:43.09Z80-BoyDeveloped by a world top workplace in computer technology...
19:08.41Z80-Boyhow do I get from SOL PICK to SOL EDIT state? I tried press <everything> and nothing does it
19:09.09Z80-BoyOr is the way how to directly enter SOL EDIT state on given solid?
20:07.46``Erik'sed blah.s' ?
20:33.25*** join/#brlcad poo1io (n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu)
20:35.41Z80-Boyno it doesn't work
20:48.36starseekeryukonbob:  You're doing docbook markup on Vol4?
21:08.14yukonbobstarseeker: I started, yup -- we should compare notes etc.
22:07.40``Erikbob: ddija look at hte vol2 markup to make sure it's all being done consistently? :D
22:16.10yukonbob``Erik: not yet... that's something I'm concerned about though ;)
22:18.44starseekerIt may not be fully consistent yet - I'm just getting started
22:48.01yukonbobstarseeker: re: consistency -- I'm thinking between your work and my work :) -- of course ea. is a work-in-progress until it's done, but as long as we're roughly as strict as the other, and using same formatting where applicable...
23:57.06``Erikbob: commit bit is  about brlcad or lbutler... but if you submit a patch or shar, I'd be able to look at it
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070922

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070922

00:13.37starseekeryukonbob:  Ah :-).  I should mention this is my first encounter with Docbook, so I'm feeling my way as I go
00:24.47yukonbobstarseeker: what tools are you using to do your work?
00:35.04*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au)
00:36.19starseekernedit and the docbook website
00:37.55thing0hey yall
00:39.01starseekeryukonbob:  What tools do you prefer?
00:40.42thing0hehe
00:40.45thing0I hate all tools
00:40.47thing0;)
00:40.48yukonbobstarseeker: I'm using xemacs (psgml/xml mode), openjade, jadetex, www for reference...
00:40.52thing0nothing works how I want it to work
00:40.59thing0but it takes to much effort to fix them all
00:41.00thing0;)
00:41.02yukonbobthing0: you need new tools ;)
00:41.28thing0yeah
00:41.33yukonbobstarseeker: ...dvipdf, xpdf, and some simple homebrew Makefiles
00:41.34thing0but there is nothing on the market
00:41.41thing0which meets all my requirements
00:41.44thing0I am too picky
00:41.46thing0;)
00:43.22thing0why is it so hard to have a customisable right click menu
00:43.32thing0or be able to reconfigure dialog boxes
00:47.22starseekerErm.  OK, I wonder how different the nxml and psgml/xml mode identing is
00:48.10starseekeryukonbob:  I'll try commiting the updated formatting using nXML mode (which has already spotted a couple xml errors for me :-))
00:48.23starseekerI haven't moved beyond that to trying to process as I go
00:48.43starseekerI'm using the full txt file to guide me
00:52.22yukonbob?full txt file
00:52.45starseekerThe complete conversion of VolII to txt
00:52.48starseekerall in one file
00:52.54yukonbobahh...
00:53.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml:
00:53.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: Used Emacs nXML mode to update indent, fixed a few problems. Using
00:53.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: [Enter] instead of <Enter> for the command notation to avoid the editor
00:53.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: seeing <Enter> as a tag.
00:53.11starseekerIt sound's like you're ahead of me in the tools game
00:54.44yukonbobif you go jade-route, I can give you my makefile which will save fsck-ing around and streamline the process.
00:54.53starseekerSounds good
00:55.12starseekerbrlcad will probably select his preferred toolset in the end, but it shouldn't matter for the conversion process
00:56.23yukonbobsame as I'm using...
00:56.36starseekerOK.  How different is our tagging style?
00:57.17*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:18.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml:
01:18.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: yukonbob spotted that commands should use <command> rather than
01:18.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: <literal>.
01:31.45*** join/#brlcad thing1 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:51.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: More markup - 1st formal table.
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04:31.05yukonbobstarseeker: you still on?
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08:38.36Z80-Boybrlcad: alt-f to open the File menu collides with alt-f which makes the upper elft pane active
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08:39.58Z80-BoyPlus the normal vectors seem the be calculated wrong for either arbn or cylinder
08:40.35Z80-Boybecause I have a cylinder which is smoothly joined to a piece of arbn, and it makes an abrupt change in colour.
08:42.29Z80-BoyIs this allowed to happen?
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09:19.35Z80-BoyOh, the grid spacing can be set to milimeters and then it is usable!
09:19.41Z80-BoyIt was just in a different menu than the grid.
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09:45.33Z80-Boybrl-cad is showing corrupt geometry for me
09:45.58Z80-BoyI have two parts - tee.g and ell.g and a group of them, tee_ell.g where one part is rotated just by swapping and inverting axes
09:46.14Z80-Boythe group is showing the part completely mangled, things protruding which not exists, completely different shape
09:46.22Z80-BoyI checked that the matrix is not weird and made it again
09:46.51Z80-BoySometimes mged even hangs when trying to display the group and has to be restarted to display
09:47.27Z80-BoyOn the raytrace the protruding thing is missing -> raytrace shows something else than mged
09:49.42Z80-BoyI need someone to try to reproduce it because it doesn't make sense to post a bugreport when it won't happen on a different OS
09:55.01Z80-Boyoh, now brl-cad crashed
09:55.01Z80-Boyseems that brl-cad crashes or hangs every time I open the tee_ell.g in red and change the matrix
10:11.10Z80-BoyNow it doesn't crash or hang, but it doesn't redraw anything - the old drawing remains
10:11.10*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au)
10:15.34Z80-BoyIt seems to be caused by a bug in the arbn tranform code
10:15.47Z80-Boyif you take an arbn and mirror the x axis, you get something completely different.
10:18.29Z80-BoyBug isolated...
10:19.08Z80-BoyWho wants the .g?
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10:26.56Z80-Boybrlcad: I have just sent you the bug isolate to your @users.sourceforge.net address.
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10:27.28MinuteElectronYou could just use the sf bug tracker.
10:27.54Z80-Boy"(-) Error - Choose a Group ERROR - No group_id was chosen"
10:28.14MinuteElectronOh, I see.
10:28.22MinuteElectronYou must choose a group I guess.
10:31.41Z80-BoyWohoo, I changed my 123456 password back to my universal password and SF doesn't complain :)
10:38.44*** join/#brlcad thing2 (n=ric@203-166-241-215.dyn.iinet.net.au)
10:42.17Z80-BoyMinuteElectron: what version of brl-cad do you have?
10:42.57Z80-BoyMinuteElectron: can you try the file? https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1800148&group_id=105292&atid=640802
10:45.18MinuteElectronI don't have BRL-CAD.
10:46.54MinuteElectronI would if I had an internet capable Linux PC, but I don't and can't work out how to use my removable hard disk on Command Line Linux.
10:47.41thing2hmm
10:48.05Z80-Boything0: do you have brl-cad?
10:49.27thing0neg
10:49.37thing0shitty net connection
10:49.44thing0will probably install when I get back
10:50.00thing0cause I have just about had it with commercial CAD ;)
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11:44.31Z80-BoyThe arbn doesn't seem to have had much attention by the developers
11:44.43Z80-Boynot only it mirrors badly, but it also calculates the lighting badly.
11:56.36Z80-BoyThe sourceforge is extremely slow
11:56.43Z80-Boytransferring data from ssl-analytics.google.com...
11:57.13Z80-BoyNow it shows a bugreport as an empty page
11:58.02Z80-BoyNow it uploaded a file twice...
11:58.07Z80-BoyUltimate crap...
11:59.18Z80-BoyFirefox: You have chosen to open bad_shading.png which is image/png. It offers save or download, but not display!
12:04.30Z80-BoySo now there are 2 bugreports on sourceforge with screenshots.
12:05.26Z80-Boyhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=105292&atid=640802&file_id=246705&aid=1800148
12:58.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 2.
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15:09.04Z80-Boy38 azimuth 15 elephantion off of front view
16:06.17*** mode/#brlcad [+o MinuteElectron] by ChanServ
18:20.28Z80-Boydbconcat segfaults...
18:21.51Z80-BoyASCII import also segfaults...
18:22.05Z80-Boyvery helpful
18:26.24Z80-Boyls claims to accept -A but doesn't...
21:13.27MaloeranHey brlcad, just in case you want to compare, this is kind of installation we have in Montreal for bicycles : http://www.rayforce.net/bicycle-lanes-small.jpg
21:14.08MaloeranThis really is a bridge exclusively for bicycles and pedestrians. I wasn't kidding when I was comparing with Maryland's lanes...
21:40.03*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.178.46)
22:16.26``Erikmd is too ... populated... bikers take over streets at times, in herds
22:22.20``Erikboggling that 'candide' was censored and banned as 'obscene' :(
22:22.48yukonbobpoint your xmms to: http://207.200.96.231:8012
22:22.51MaloeranIt directly attacked religions and theism in rather... sensitive times
22:22.56yukonbob(soma)
22:23.29``Erikon to frank zappa (willy the pimp)
22:23.46``Erikmal: it was banned in the 20th century.
22:23.52MaloeranWoah!
22:23.56MaloeranI didn't know that
22:24.33``Erikupenn keeps an amusing list of banned works in supposed enlightened nations
22:24.45``Erikcanuckia has a good fistful, btw
22:25.09MaloeranReally? I can't imagine anything of the sort being banned here
22:28.32``Erikhttp://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html
22:29.32MaloeranThere isn't much about Canada in there, besides banning "hate speech" books, which I can understand
23:59.32starseekeryou've been going all day?
23:59.49yukonbobpretty much -- ~6 hours I guess (!)
23:59.59starseekereeeep!
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070923

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070923

00:01.20starseekeryukonbob:  How far into vol4 are you?
00:01.51yukonbobjust started ch 5. (converting to brlcad).
00:02.02yukonbob31 formatted pages once I build it.
00:03.29starseekerWow
00:04.12starseekerMe is trying to finish up Lesson 3
00:04.22starseeker(complicated tables suck...)
00:21.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 3
02:36.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
02:36.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: adjust_names() was being called with a null comb->tree (an empty combination).
02:36.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: Added a check for null comb->tree and skip call if so.
02:36.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: This fixes bug [ 1800306 ] dbconcat segfaults.
05:29.13louipcyukonbob, starseeker: you guys need to be paid for this or something haha
05:52.10yukonboblouipc: ;)
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18:03.50MaloeranHave a safe journey!
18:26.09yukonbobheh
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21:02.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Formatting a number of tables.
21:15.21*** join/#brlcad hussam (n=hussam@77.94.33.8.satgate.net)
21:16.49hussamI'm downloading BRLCAD source code. I was wondering how hard is it to learn this program if I already know AutoCAD?
21:19.15louipcit's quite different. are you comfortable drawing via commands in autocad?
21:24.20hussamlouipc. yes
21:24.30louipcyou can't be a complete point-and-click type person
21:24.41louipchussam: then I think it would be OK for you
21:24.50hussamok great.
21:25.21louipcthe commands are different though
21:26.09hussamIf there's good documentation, I can learn easily.
21:27.05hussamI used AutoCAD in university but I was looking for a good program to make drawings and print them at home on my Linux box.
21:28.10Z80-Boyhussam: unfortunately the documentation is often omitting crucial details
21:28.37Z80-Boyhussam: BRL-CAD cannot make drawings. qcad can.
21:29.16*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548750CA.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:29.37louipcyeah BRL-CAD isn't really for drafting yet
21:29.59louipcit's good for making 3D models
21:43.20hussamZ80-Boy,  louipc: I've tried qcad a few years ago. I don't remember having a good experience with it.
21:43.58*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548748B2.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:45.54louipcyeah it's unfortunate hah
21:50.24hussamI just stumbled onto this while searching on google http://www.opencascade.org/_popup/727/
21:51.04hussamthere seems to be a a Linux version too
21:52.23louipcyeah I've heard about it. I haven't tried it yet though
21:54.48hussamlouipc, it's 183MB so it'll take a while to download. I'm getting an average of 25Kbytes/sec
21:55.46hussambut I'll install BRLCAD as well
22:13.13*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548748B2.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:43.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: Previous commit checked for null prior to call to adjust_names(), moved the null check into adjust_names().
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070924

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070924

02:49.16*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
02:54.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Additional markup
04:54.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 5
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12:28.33MaloeranHum! Okay, I have quite a stupid question. How do you have command line tools pick file names that begin with - ( dash ) without complaining about an invalid option?
12:29.15*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487536D.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:29.37MaloeranAh right, a preceeding -- does it
12:30.36archivistMaloeran, you can quote a filename
12:42.22Maloeran"" would not help, it would still complain about an invalid option
12:49.55brlcadsome commands take it, many in fact, but not all
12:51.31Z80-Boybrlcad: with my patch it's much easier to work with matrices in red
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13:34.02thing0hey
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14:06.27``Erik*yawn*
14:33.40brlcadZ80-Boy: okay, thanks! .. I was gone all weekend through Fri so it'll take me a bit to catch up with all the e-mail/trackers -- I did see them, though
14:33.44brlcadlots of good stuff
14:33.58Z80-Boybrlcad: you're welcome
14:34.15Z80-Boybrlcad: I could also get over that segfault and merge 2 databases together - someone already fixed it
14:35.45brlcadyeah, looked like john fixed it
14:36.04brlcadhe reads your postings too ;)
14:38.59*** join/#brlcad steko (n=steko@generic-nat.unisi.it)
14:50.18brlcadciao steko
14:50.30stekociao brlcad,
15:36.48starseekerWelcome back brlcad ;-)
16:58.21``Erikheh
16:58.35``Erikare you using push or xpush any?
17:49.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: missing the second test command for the WITH_OPENGL conditional, irix shell no likey
17:51.22``Erikis that one of those '"no" command not found' warnings?
17:52.31brlcadyep
17:52.58brlcadi'd fixed it week before last, but apparently forgot to commit it
17:53.14``Erikgood thing I didn't waste time digging into it :D
17:53.54brlcadit was the extra conditional you'd added on with_opengl to check for x11 too
17:54.07``Eriknow why would I be seeing "Sorry, this database is READ-ONLY" ?
17:54.12brlcadapparently newer versions of 'test' don't mind it
17:54.16``Erikoh, woops
17:54.23``Erikdid I forget doublequotes or something?
17:54.25brlcaddunno what posix says about it
17:54.38brlcadnah, it was the command itself, being able to do multiple statements
17:55.09``ErikI was just fixing those in a shell script on debian :/
17:55.16brlcadyou wrote: test foo -eq bar && boo -eq yah
17:55.23``Erikyesh
17:55.30brlcadinstead of: test foo -eq bar && test boo -eq yah
17:56.01brlcadnew test apparently recognizes the && or silently ignores, or I just didn't notice it was erroring elsewhere
17:56.07brlcaddoesn't matter, just added the second test, all better
17:56.13brlcadminiscule
17:57.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh: Migrate to using "test" instead of square brackets. Fix missing test on compound statement
18:04.18*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-92-121.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:09.57``Erikz80: if you use push after every matrix change, does it work better? O.o (push applies the matrix tot he primitives, so the comb matrices are reset back to identity)
18:11.56Z80-Boy``Erik: I use red directly, is there a way to use push?
18:12.16``Erikum, inside of red? I don't think so?
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18:27.35yukonbobhello, cadders
18:28.18brlcadhowdy yukonbobbers
18:28.22yukonbob;)
18:28.58yukonbobhey brlcad, I'll take that committ bit from you now -- I've got docbook material to post ;)
18:31.48brlcadyou been following starseeker's progress too?
18:32.09yukonbobyes -- we've been discussing the markup off-channel
18:32.17brlcadah, neat
18:34.24yukonbobdidn't want to fill this w/ docbook geekery, but probable should do it here, for logging's sake, everybody in loop :P
18:34.51yukonbobwill do from now on; nothing crititcal lost though ;)
18:48.13Z80-BoyNow I understand why the threads are so slow
18:48.33Z80-Boythey are made of slanted cylinders, and that probably translated to TGC, and shooting TGC solves an equation of 4th order
18:48.36Z80-Boybrutal.
18:52.14brlcadanything even remotely cad-related is fair game ;)
18:53.00brlcadZ80-Boy: and the tgc's are actually fairly extensively optimized .. you could probably squeeze another 10% out, but it'd be really tough
18:53.54brlcadI suspect that the boolean is actually where you're spending most of your time, lots of CSG ops
18:54.54Z80-Boyboolean == ?
18:55.19brlcadthe csg operations, union this with this with this, subtract this, etc
18:55.44Z80-Boythis is also optimized I guess
18:55.49brlcadvery compact, but can quickly become very expensive  if you have to evaluate many in a given cell
18:56.13brlcadheh, yeah .. i've tried rewriting the boolean weaver on at least three separate occasions now
18:56.23brlcadtrying to get some speed out of it, and clean up the code
18:56.44Z80-Boywhat about making a comb like a height field and rotating the comb radially?
18:56.55Z80-BoyWould it be faster than a lot of slanted cylinders stacked?
18:57.15brlcadnot one of those tries did the performance actually increase though (and once even decreased significantly after the rewrite)
18:58.12Z80-Boynow I see the difference between BRL-CAD and the rest
18:58.17Z80-BoyBRL-CAD does proper bodie
18:58.20Z80-Boybodies
18:58.28Z80-Boymost other programs use a quake-like triangular approximation
18:58.38brlcadnot sure about using a height field .. my intuition would suggest that it'd be *massively* slower just due to the number of operations involved and the complexity of height field primitives
18:59.43Z80-Boywhat else then? instead of cylinders rotate faceted things?
19:01.19Z80-Boymodel screws as rivets, lol :)
19:04.40Z80-Boybut at least the screws look like real screws
19:06.00Z80-Boyis it possible to reference contents of another .g file in one .g file so that when the "another" file changes, it has an effect?
19:08.54brlcadZ80-Boy: yep, those "proper bodies" as you referred to them are what we mean when we say that BRL-CAD predominantly uses an implicit geometry representation -- not an explicit format or a polygonalized approximation
19:09.22brlcadand also why getting multi-representation working is so important.. so we can go back and forth between the two more readily
19:09.56Z80-Boypolygonalized is an approximation right?
19:09.57brlcadpipe is the only primitive that quickly jumps to mind for a screw thread
19:10.00brlcadyes
19:10.11Z80-Boythat's for games, not rendering
19:10.49brlcadreferring to the contents in another .g is provided the "submodel" primtive .. but that is *rarely* ever used.. I can't even think of the last time it was tested, so it may or may not work frankly
19:11.11brlcadit's usually better to do keep/dbconcat as needed for merging/mixing geometry files
19:11.17Z80-Boyno help for submodel
19:11.24brlcadit's a primitive type
19:11.36brlcadin blah submodel
19:13.25yukonbobre: screws and hardware, I suggest checking out ronja.twibright.com
19:15.03Z80-Boytreetop == ?
19:15.28Z80-Boyspace partitioning method == ?
19:20.02Z80-BoyIs concatenation of two binary databases also a binary database?
19:20.33*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
19:24.28brlcadZ80-Boy: yes, you can actually concat two dbs and end up with a valid db -- but if you concat that way, then it's entirely up to the user to know/resolve any naming conflicts beforehand
19:24.49Z80-Boywow
19:24.58Z80-BoyI call this oldschool
19:25.00brlcadi.e. it's certainly doable, and often useful -- but wouldn't be the "usual" approach I'd suggest unless you know what you're doing
19:25.13Z80-Boyis there a unix command that does the same as "dbconcat" in mged?
19:25.19Z80-BoyOr can mged be fired in a script?
19:25.26brlcadyou mean 'cat' ?
19:25.38brlcadmged can be fired in a script, that's probably best
19:25.50Z80-Boyhow? mged << EOF commands EOF?
19:25.54brlcadmged -c existing.g dbconcat imported.g
19:26.22brlcadyou could use an EOF herenow doc, but it will execute single commands if you list one after the filename
19:26.28brlcade.g. mged -c file.g tops
19:26.41Z80-Boybut how do I get the output into a file then?
19:26.53brlcadget what output?
19:26.55Z80-Boywill it go into existing.g?
19:27.11brlcadit'll do whatever command you tell it
19:27.28Z80-Boywhat does dbconcat -s and what -p?
19:27.32brlcadif you mean the text output that would normally be in the console, that's primarily stderr output
19:27.40brlcadsometimes content on stdout
19:27.44brlcadsuffix/prefix
19:28.08brlcadit'll auto-append a prefix or suffix so you can guarantee there are no conflicting names
19:28.12Z80-Boyno I mean mged existing.g -c dbconcat add.g will store the resulting bigger database where? existing.g?
19:28.14brlcadduring import
19:28.47brlcadit's as if you ran mged existing.g .. and then ran "dbconcat add.g" on th mged command prompt
19:29.07Z80-Boyand if I want to enter multiple commands on commandline?
19:29.20Z80-Boyomit -c, add "exit"?
19:29.26brlcadno
19:29.34brlcad-c is command/classic mode
19:29.53brlcadremoving -c means that it'
19:29.55Z80-Boycall mged multiple times?
19:29.58brlcadit'll kick off the tcl gui
19:30.01Z80-Boyaha
19:30.08Z80-Boyso for a script, -c must be there...?
19:30.12brlcadyes
19:30.32Z80-BoyI think it will be best if I want to assemble two models together
19:30.32brlcadnow, whether you list a command or not determines whether it's in single-command mode or not
19:30.45Z80-Boymake a.g, b.g and c_glue.g (source files)
19:30.54Z80-Boyand then cp c_glue.g c.g
19:31.01Z80-Boymged -c c.g dbconcat a.g
19:31.15Z80-Boymged -c c.g dbconcat b.g
19:31.18Z80-Boyand then rt c.g
19:31.34Z80-Boythen I'll have proper dependencies in the makefile
19:31.36brlcadyeah, you can reinvoke mged -c like that many times and it should be just fine -- it's really a lightweight binary in command-mode
19:31.51Z80-Boyhow do I do it with only one mged invoke?
19:32.05brlcada herenow doc like you suggested
19:32.14brlcador source a tcl script
19:32.23Z80-Boymged -c c.g < file_with_commands ?
19:32.24brlcadmged -c foo.g source file.tcl
19:32.34brlcador mged -c foo.g <<EOF
19:32.37brlcadblah blah
19:32.38brlcadEOF
19:32.54brlcadyeah, you could use a redirect like that too
19:33.07Z80-Boydo I have to put "exit" as the last command?
19:33.07brlcadecho "tops" | mged -c foo.g
19:33.19brlcadnah, it quits on end-of-file
19:33.24Z80-Boywhat sucks the most is not how it's slow, but that the dependences are missing
19:33.36brlcaddependencies?
19:33.40Z80-BoyI change one tiny nut and whole Ronja has to be recompiled, because i changed the Big Mighty ronja.g
19:33.53Z80-BoyI have all the hierarchy in ronja.g
19:34.56Z80-Boybut... a problem
19:35.02Z80-BoyI won't be able to edit the c_glue.g
19:35.17Z80-Boysince I won't see what I am doing :(
19:35.35brlcadheh, well depends what sorts of edits, and how often you need to do the editing
19:35.43brlcadif the editing can be scripted, you're golden
19:36.07brlcadpretty much everything that you can do via the gui can be done in classic mode
19:36.16Z80-Boyoften
19:36.24Z80-Boyno scriptiing of editing
19:36.39Z80-BoyI think I need to use that seldom-used feature "dubmodel"
19:36.43Z80-Boysubmodel
19:36.48Z80-Boywhat's the "space partitioning"?
19:36.56brlcadwell that's not a problem anything can really solve .. if you need to graphically edit, then .. well.. human in the loop
19:37.23Z80-Boyno it can be solved with the submodel
19:37.33Z80-BoyI just need to type explicit dependencies into the makefile
19:37.39brlcadi'm still not hearing what the problem you're actually trying to solve is
19:37.48Z80-BoyI basically need a brlcad equivalent of the C #include
19:37.58brlcadbut what's the *problem*
19:38.11brlcadwhat do you need that for?
19:38.19brlcadnot saying you don't, there just might be another/better way
19:38.21Z80-Boyfor Ronja
19:38.29brlcadgah
19:38.43brlcadwhat is the *task* that you need it for?
19:38.47Z80-BoyIf I change something on tiny part A, I don't want a video of tiny part B be rendered again
19:39.04Z80-BoyThe task is to keep an up to date set of model videos of Ronja parts
19:39.12Z80-Boythroughout the development of the Ronja project
19:39.18*** part/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
19:39.49brlcadokay, got that good .. next question then is why does editing part A now cause B to be rendered again?
19:40.01Z80-BoyBecause they are both in the same file - ronja.g
19:40.06Z80-BoyEditing part A touches that file
19:40.23Z80-BoyThe makefile process is driven by timestamps on files
19:40.24brlcadah, because you're using something that checks the file timestamp, like make or something
19:41.01brlcadgot it
19:41.52Z80-Boysomeone calls "Ronja is crap, it bent in the wind". I fire up mged console.g, replace 2mm thickness with 3mm thickness, type "make rsync" and the website is updated
19:41.52brlcadyou can still do what you want without resorting to submodels
19:41.56Z80-BoyHow?
19:42.03brlcadkeep each part in it's own .g file, edit that file as needed
19:42.19brlcadhave a make rule that does the dbconcat of each of those files to make the bigger .g
19:42.21Z80-Boyand how do I render videos where several parts are assembled into an assembly?
19:43.30Z80-BoyBut I still need the combination of the parts and the matrices that say how the parts are shifted and rotated
19:43.41Z80-Boyand when debugging this matrix, I need to have all parts loaded in mged
19:43.45brlcadthe videos use whatever submodel portion is being rendered, so if you are rendering a bolt animation, it'd use bolt.g  -- if you are rendering the whole thing, it'll necessarily be the whole.g and will rerender when anything it includes updates
19:43.52Z80-BoyThe only solution I can see is use the submodel
19:44.14Z80-BoyAs I said, no way to actually work on whole.g
19:44.38Z80-BoyWhat is the "space partitioning", or at least what should I type there?
19:44.46Z80-BoyAnd what is the "treetop"?
19:44.47brlcadif you work on pushed matrices, then there are no shift/rotation matrices to deal with during composition
19:44.56Z80-Boywhat is a pushed matrix?
19:45.28brlcadbasically think of it as order of operations when dealing with a hierarchy
19:45.29Z80-BoyIn any case I need to tell brl-cad how the parts should be translated and rotated before assembled
19:45.38Z80-BoyFor this I need to have all parts loaded at once to try it out
19:45.56brlcadyou can have a hierarchy that has matrics, or the matrices can be *pushed* down to the leave nodes (i.e. all the way to the primitives)
19:46.28brlcadit's a good/bad tradeoff in that it makes composition a breeze, but can be harder since you loose a localized coordiante system
19:46.33brlcad(per part)
19:46.36Z80-Boyhmm, what is the space partitioning?
19:49.20brlcadjust put a zero
19:49.25brlcadif that doesn't work, but a 1
19:49.25Z80-Boycool
19:49.31brlcads/but/put/
19:49.32Z80-BoyHow do I know it works?
19:49.43brlcadprobably if it doesn't crash on you
19:49.44Z80-BoyAnd the treetop is actually the thing I want to include?
19:49.59brlcadlike I said, you're veering into code that hasn't been used really in many years
19:50.21brlcadyeah, treetop is the hierarchy you want to reference
19:50.31Z80-BoyIsn't there really something like #include?
19:50.58Z80-Boythat would just merge in another file, without actually adding it into the working database?
19:51.23brlcadthat is the submodel object
19:51.31brlcad(didn't we already go through this??)
19:51.54brlcadthe only difference is that it's asking you what line to start with
19:52.06brlcad(if you're going to compare to #include)
19:52.52Z80-BoyWorks
19:52.56Z80-Boybut it made the part all gray
19:53.08Z80-BoyHow do I make it to keep the region structure inside the part?
19:56.46brlcadhm, I don't think it is
19:57.12brlcadit knows the structure, i.e. it's still there, but there aren't any named references to it unless you make submodels on a per-region basis
19:58.11Z80-BoyI can't use that then
19:58.21Z80-BoyCan I have file a submodelling b and b submodelling c?
19:58.23brlcadhow about just keeping the one ronja.g file that you edit, but then have your script do a 'keep bolt_test.g bolt', and check if bolt_test.g md5 is same as bolt.g to determine whether it needs to cp bolt_test.g bolt.g
19:58.40brlcadyeah, recursive submodels should work
19:58.55brlcadand you're probably screwed if you make a cyclic reference
19:59.03Z80-Boywhat is "keep bolt_test.g bolt" supposed to do?
20:00.06Z80-BoyOh yes
20:00.11Z80-Boythat solves the problem with editing
20:00.16brlcadkeep is an mged command, you'd have your ronja.g and then just break out .g files for each of the pieces that you're rendering the in makefile
20:00.29Z80-BoyI edit the machine-generated file c.g and then do "keep c_glue.g c" and that's it
20:00.42Z80-BoyI have even the luxury to decide if I want to keep my experimental changes or discard them wow :)
20:00.46brlcadbut only "create" the new .g files if the contents actually change using something like g_diff or md5
20:00.55Z80-BoyNo need to use the wipe-my-nice-colours command "submodel"
20:01.03brlcadyeah, that sucks
20:01.21brlcadsubmodels solve a particular class of problems, but not really the one you need
20:01.24Z80-Boybut it has the cyclic reference problem :D
20:01.28Z80-BoyMy computer would go on fire
20:01.41Z80-BoyI think the makefile will be fine
20:02.17Z80-Boydoes the "keep" automatically keep all referenced objects or just the one object?
20:02.33Z80-Boyi. e. if I have a.c consisting of a.s and b.s, does it save only a.c or everything?
20:03.05brlcadeverything referenced/needed
20:03.14Z80-Boyomg
20:03.19Z80-Boyhow do I turn that off?
20:03.25brlcadhuh?
20:03.46brlcadyou wouldn't ever want to turn that off, maybe you misunderstand..
20:03.48Z80-BoyIs there a command which does the same as keep, just saves the object without references?
20:04.00Z80-BoyI would, otherwise it would just save everything.
20:04.09brlcada.c is just a couple text labels without a.s and b.s
20:04.17brlcadthere wouldn't be any geometry
20:04.20brlcadnothing to see
20:04.32brlcada.c is the operations
20:04.42brlcadyou'd have ops on nothing
20:05.34brlcadgive it a try, I don't think it means what you maybe think it means
20:05.38brlcadthere's a model hierarchy
20:05.45brlcada directed acylic graph of geometry and operations
20:06.24brlcaddo display/use/edit *any* node in the hierarchy *necessarily* requires the subtree below it (by definition)
20:07.01Z80-BoyIt keeps all prerequisites
20:07.13Z80-BoyI don't want that. It's useless for me. I want just the single object.
20:08.30brlcadit is the single object...
20:08.59Z80-Boyno if I open the database then I see a whole load of object
20:09.01Z80-Boysobjects
20:09.04Z80-Boyobjects
20:09.05brlcadyou're misunderstanding something really fundamental here about the geometry hierarchy
20:10.07brlcad'ls' merely shows you the geometry hierarchy flattened .. but there are requisite inter-relationships
20:10.30brlcadif you have a combination that says use this primitive and that primtive, those *necessarily* need to exist or the combination is invalid
20:11.16brlcadthe primitives are the leaf nodes of the hierarchy, they *are* the positive and negative space
20:11.40brlcadthe combinations merely describe how to .. combine them together
20:13.47Z80-BoyIs it possible to have the combination saved in a separate file?
20:14.15brlcadyes?
20:14.18Z80-BoyIf I have two parts A and B that come together then I have 3 videos: A, B, and A+B
20:14.41*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
20:15.13brlcadokay
20:15.24brlcadA, B, and C (where C=A+B)
20:17.45brlcadso you have your ronja.g that has A,B,C ... your makefile will do a keep on A and B for certain, and on C if there are more contents than just A and B
20:18.21brlcaddoes the keep, do an md5 to see if they're different content-wise, if they are you cp
20:35.19``Erik*ponder*
20:37.04``Erikgiven a clone operation on a primitive, any rotation, translation, mirroring, etc. must alter the primitive in description as well as name, as solids have no matrix attached... should clone on a comb have the effect of push and hold identity matrix when given translation or rotation?
20:37.32``Erikand when cloning, say, 10 copies, does mirror insinuate that all ten are flipped compared to the original, or that they alternate?
20:49.18brlcadsome solids have a matrix, some don't .. but yeah it's all internal .. even the ones that do
20:49.40brlcadI wouldn't expect clone on a comb to push
20:49.56brlcadbut it's probably option-worthy
20:50.45brlcadjust mimic what the v4 code does
20:50.47``Erikhm, by default, the state matrix is applied to all primitives on copy
20:50.56brlcadyou can open a v4 and clone will work now already
20:51.25``Erikman, that'd mean reading through the v4 format to figure ot what these direct hacks do :D
20:51.43brlcadI mean run the command, just see what it currently does
20:51.53brlcadi don't recall it doing a push
20:52.05brlcadbut don't know what it did for -n 10 on a mirror
20:52.15``Eriknot explicitely, but in calling the v4_copy_solid, passing the matrix...
20:52.23brlcadmy guess would be n mirrored copies, not flipflopping
20:52.47brlcaddbupgrade -r
20:52.50brlcad(revert)
20:52.56brlcadssshh
20:53.07brlcadintentionally undoc'd
20:53.15``Erikthe source is the documentation O.o
20:53.21brlcadyep
20:53.36brlcadif they're smart enough to get that far, more power to them for using the option
20:54.06``ErikI'm also kinda wondering if dbupgrade could do some magic testing to solve endian and other 'gotchas'
20:54.38``Erikif it could, reliably... then v4 can start getting marked 'broken' in places to force adoption of v5
20:55.52brlcadcan't practically force it, just have to make enough of a good reason for them to upgrade/convert
20:57.20``Erikyes, by slowly marking more and more v4 functions 'broken' (like, bu_log("broken"); return NULL; )
20:57.22``Erik:D
20:57.22brlcadwould be interesting to add the corresponding #defines to dbupgrade.c before the headers to see if it could be forced to presume local is big or little on-demand, though ... "should" work if the right things are set/undef'd
20:58.14``Erikif its' just endian, then having little and big endian tests for the file magic should tell you to swap... hopefully no 'middle endian' or funny width files are out there :/
20:58.34``Erikor, rather, a 'right' magic and a 'backwards' magic
21:16.00*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au)
21:21.30*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt232-45.northwestel.net)
21:22.39``Erikoh... hum...
21:36.33*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-76-23-15-187.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
21:48.23yukonbobbrlcad: ping
21:49.14iraytraceyukonbob: pong!
21:49.18iraytrace;-)
21:50.13yukonbobdid you change your name sean?
21:50.27brlcadhum?
21:50.33yukonbobah
21:50.40brlcadah, heh no
21:50.41yukonbobiraytrace confused me.
21:50.55iraytracesorry
21:52.04yukonbobbrlcad: hey -- re: docs -- how long might it take to get commit access (do you need my sourceforge details?), or should I forward work to you for posting?
21:53.13brlcadyukonbob: yeah, need your sf.net user
21:54.25brlcadgive me about an hour .. just now running out the door
21:54.48yukonbobnp -- thx, brlcad :)
21:54.50brlcadtime to cross the border *ding* taco bell
22:02.37starseekeryukonbob:  How long is vol4 shaping up to be as docbook?
22:12.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 6
22:26.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 7
22:42.11starseekerSweet!
22:45.35yukonbobgetting all the references setup will be non-trivial, but I'm happy ;)
22:48.07starseekerVery nice!
22:48.37yukonbobhow's your work going?
22:48.58starseekerand images...
22:49.04starseekera ways to go
22:49.11starseekerBut making progress!
22:49.24yukonbobah -- /me has to do some images too -- I put in place-holder images currently
22:50.48yukonbobI'd like to thank $deity, my parents, all the other nominees...
22:55.09yukonbobstarseeker: if you'd like my work to compare/contrast with what you've got going, let me know.
22:58.01starseekerthat would be great - but if brlcad is going to give you commit privs, I'll get a look at it then
22:58.41yukonbobsure thing.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070925

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070925

00:11.24brlcadhe's added
00:55.02starseekerThanks!
00:55.48starseekermade it through customs OK? ;-)
01:17.47louipcvolII is a doosey though isn't it?
01:18.32starseekerit is indeed
02:42.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 9
03:36.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/Makefile.am util/Makefile.am):
03:36.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: missing linker libs causing run-time crashes due to missing symbols (lazy
03:36.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: binding failures) on LIBDM .. it needs the DM_LIBS that were defined during
03:36.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: configure (specifically the carbon framework in this instance for the
03:36.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: application focus routine).
03:44.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: apply Karel's sf patch 1800475 (improve ergonomoy of red) that provides improved matrix readability for mged 'red' command. the change adds an additional space after each matrix line in the 'red' file being edited.
04:03.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: (log message trimmed)
04:03.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: include a unique/special/new section specfically for the folks that have worked
04:03.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: on documentation. this minimally includes betty schueler (mged tutorial vol2),
04:03.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: eric edwards (VAST MAJORITY of the tutorial series vol1234), dwayne kregel
04:03.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: (Principles of effective modeling vol3), and cliff yapp (docbook conversion
04:03.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: efforts). the developers are specifically *not* listed under the doc writer and
04:03.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: other sections since they tend to apply to all of them, so make a note of that
04:12.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/AUTHORS: cliff is active
04:12.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: apply karel's same tweak to the tree listing as well for spacing out matrices one character per matrix line
04:18.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
04:18.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: mr. anderson fixed the dbconcat of empty combinations that was causing mged to
04:18.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: crash. adjust_names() in wdb_obj.c (part of dbconcat) was being passed
04:18.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: comb->tree without checking for a null value. john added a check for null and
04:18.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: skips the combination (as null means it's an empty combination). this fixes two
04:19.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: bugs reported by karel kulhavy, sf bug 1800310 (ASCII import segfault in mged)
04:19.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: and 1800306 (dbconcat segfaults).
04:22.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oop, also comment on the improved matrix readability on mged 'red' command. this patch that was provided by karel adds a space after each row of the matrices being printed.
04:31.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: oop, no fp
05:26.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c: add braces for proper indent
05:51.20*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-109-48.dclient.hispeed.ch)
06:00.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c:
06:00.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: prevent a crash if we're using db5_get_attributes() and the object doesn't have
06:00.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: any of the attributes we're looking for. we need to at least initialize the avs
06:00.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: to empty, otherwise bu_avs_free will abort on a magic number check.
06:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c:
06:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix the mged ls command's command argument processing. A handful of off-by-one
06:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: errors on the -A option processing, now rewritten to avoid the issue altogether
06:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: by stripping off the command name and ay processed arguments. now it also
06:02.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: prints a better error message if the args to -A are incorrect.
06:04.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl:
06:04.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: change the help to the ls command to be a little more clear on what is expected
06:04.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: of the special -A argument. this is in response to changes and repairs made in
06:04.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: response to karel's sf patch 1800301 (ls -A claimed to be accepted, isn't).
06:07.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
06:07.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: fixed crash in mged ls -A attribute listing command, related to karel's sf patch
06:07.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 1800301 (ls -A claimed to be accepted, isn't). the arguments where getting
06:07.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: checked with an off-by-one error, but even with that problem fixed -- the
06:07.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: command would crash mged due to an avs being freed that was never initialized.
06:07.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: avs is now always freed too so the problem goes away.
06:17.44pooliooh my goodness.
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10:41.25Z80-Boywoohoo, my BRL-CAD patch was accepted :)
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11:13.10Z80-BoyIs there a way to tell pix-fb to display the picture more than or a moment?
11:13.19Z80-BoyI tried all out switches and none of them does it
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13:02.47``Erikbrlcad: what os was that showing up on? O.o I hit default config on 5/6 os's, the only issues I saw were with broken libtools
13:03.22``Erikah, all my mac stuff was in X, using X, all X...
13:05.57``Erikand all the stuff in DM_LIBS *SHOULD* be in libdm's "dependency_libs" variable... the .la should be the only thing ever needed, otherwise  your libtool is broken or you're using it wrong
13:07.01brlcadZ80-Boy: -F/dev/Xl
13:07.47Z80-Boybrlcad: what?
13:08.09brlcadpix-fb -F/dev/Xl
13:08.12brlcadfbhelp
13:08.23``Erikit's not a real /dev thing
13:08.25Z80-Boy*lol*
13:08.28``Erikit's parsed in BRL-CAD
13:08.30Z80-Boyanother secret hidden man
13:08.40``Eriknah, it's in fbhelp and the libfb manpage and a few zillion other places
13:08.59``Erikonly place it isn't is the non-existant faq :D
13:09.03Z80-Boybrlcad: and what does -F/dev/Xl do?
13:09.10``Erikdipslay to X, linger
13:10.18Z80-Boyanother place where -F is not described is man pix-fb
13:10.33Z80-BoyI read the manpage before I wrote the patch
13:11.30brlcadZ80-Boy: well, you have to actually read the page, it does describe this
13:11.42Z80-Boy-F is only in one place - the synopsis
13:11.47brlcadman pix-fb .. very first paragraph says what?
13:12.00Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
13:12.13Z80-BoyWhis is the same as "-F framebuffer"
13:12.14brlcadsentence right before that
13:12.31Z80-Boysays "after -F, you can stick something and that something is called framebuffer"
13:12.41Z80-Boygreat, but doesn't imply that -F/dev/Xl makes it pause
13:13.00Z80-BoyThe environ- ment variable FB_FILE specifies the  current  framebuffer, see  brlcad(1).
13:13.18brlcadno, "The environment variable FB_FILE  specifies  the current framebuffer, see brlcad(1)."
13:13.22Z80-BoyMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man/ man 1 brlcad
13:13.27Z80-Boyman: no entry for brlcad in section 1 of the manual.
13:13.30Z80-Boy*lol*
13:13.57``Erikcomes up for me O.o
13:14.04brlcadcomes up for me to
13:14.19Z80-Boycomes up if I omit the 1
13:15.09Z80-Boywas I supposed to look into man brl-cad and search for something?
13:15.30brlcadhow about FB_FILE
13:16.14brlcador read it all given that's a pretty comprehensive manpage, you'd probably get a lot of useful bits out of it
13:16.19Z80-Boysays that I can set up somem "framebuffer"
13:16.26brlcadit is "the" brlcad manpage after all
13:16.26Z80-Boybut doesn't say that /dev/Xl will make it pause
13:16.47Z80-Boy"Xl" even doesn't occur anywhere in man brlcad
13:16.57brlcaddude, it explains the entire interface in detail, how it all works
13:17.13Z80-BoyMaybe, but doesn't say that Xl makes it pause
13:17.41brlcadsure, and it doesn't say a thousand other things that might be interesting either
13:17.57brlcadit doesn't tell you where you can drive the car, it tells you how to drive
13:18.07Z80-BoyNo it doesn't tell anything
13:18.28brlcadyou're really not reading it then
13:18.34Z80-Boythe FB_FILE section of man brlcad basically says that -F specifies a "framebuffer", and the framebuffer is in format [hostname:]/dev/device_name[num]
13:18.36brlcadand you certainly couldn't have read it all by now
13:19.10Z80-Boyman 3 libfb again doesn't work...
13:19.15Z80-Boyhas to be specified without the 3
13:19.45``Erik(actually, I haven't found linger in the manpages... but it is in 'fbhelp', a couple release notes, and mged_cmd_index.html)
13:19.46Z80-Boysee end of man 3 libfb...
13:19.52Z80-BoyENd of man 3 libfb is BUG REPORTS.
13:19.53brlcadworks here, there's something not working right with your manual pages
13:20.14Z80-Boyproof?
13:20.46brlcadof what?
13:20.54Z80-BoyThat something is not working right with my manual pages
13:21.01Z80-BoyThe devices listed in man 3 libfb are:
13:21.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/brlcad.1: remove the references to /m/cad
13:21.04Z80-Boy/dev/debug[num]
13:21.12Z80-Boyfilename
13:21.16Z80-Boy/dev/ik[num][opt]
13:21.23Z80-Boy/dev/sgi[num]
13:21.31Z80-Boy/dev/rat
13:21.35Z80-Boyhostname:[devicename]
13:21.42brlcadi mean the fact that you can't use the number, that should work if it's standard 'man'
13:21.44Z80-BoyNo mention of /dev/Xl
13:22.16Z80-Boywhat's the definition of term "standard" in relation to implementations of the 'man' program?
13:22.37Z80-Boystandard per POSIX? SUS? some RFC?
13:23.08brlcadposix would generally be the one
13:23.08``Erikthe number works on my obsd install
13:23.25Z80-BoyOn my too
13:23.30Z80-Boyman 3 printf work
13:23.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.3: mention fbhelp in the SEE ALSO
13:23.43Z80-BoyIt just doesn't work with MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man
13:23.53``Erikusing bash?
13:24.06Z80-Boyeven MANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 3 printf works
13:24.15brlcaddo you have anything in /usr/brlcad/man ?
13:24.30Z80-Boy/usr/brlcad/man doesn't exist
13:24.34Z80-Boyonly /usr/brlcad exists.
13:25.20brlcadand is there /usr/brlcad/share/man/man1/brlcad.1  ?
13:25.30Z80-Boyyes
13:26.02brlcadthen man 1 brlcad should work, something particular about your setup
13:26.24brlcadthere's nothing special about manpages, they're just put into numbered folders
13:26.45brlcadyou add that base to your MANPATH, and it searches the numbered folders for the numbered file
13:27.05Z80-BoyObviously, only sometimes.
13:27.17``Erikhum, interesting
13:27.35``Erikif I try overriding the path, it doesn't work, but if I append the path to the variable in the environment, it works
13:27.50``Erikusing ksh
13:28.10``Erikobsd must have some fu to avoid 'suspicious' overrides :/
13:28.15brlcadhm, that is wierd
13:28.17Z80-Boyfu == ?
13:28.28brlcadmaybe doesn't allow overrides at all?
13:28.46brlcadwhat does this do:  PATH=/ ls
13:28.57``Erikit takes that one
13:29.00brlcadhum
13:29.01Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~$ PATH=/ ls
13:29.01``Erikls not found
13:29.01Z80-Boybash: ls: command not found
13:29.35brlcadand MANPATH=/ man man ?
13:29.48Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~$ MANPATH=/ man man
13:29.48Z80-Boyman: no entry for man in the manual.
13:30.32brlcadwell, that's right too ..
13:31.00Z80-BoyMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man n brlcad works
13:31.08Z80-BoyMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man brlcad
13:31.23Z80-BoyMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 1 brlcad doesn't
13:31.25Z80-BoyMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 3 brlcad doesn't
13:31.26Z80-BoyMANPATH=/usr/brlcad/share/man man 5 brlcad doesn't
13:31.43Z80-Boy-> conclusion: the brlcad manpage must be in section "n" and not section 3, as erroneously stated
13:32.49Z80-Boyman brlcad says (3), it works when the section is specified as "n", and the brlcad.1 file is actually in the "man1" directory
13:33.39Z80-Boyit also works then the section is specified as "10", "19", "m" or "z".
13:34.22brlcadit's a section 1 header
13:34.53brlcadthe fact that is shows up in n implies something else is going on, maybe a declaration missing in the file that it wants to see
13:35.14brlcadthe TH is section one in the file
13:35.15brlcad.TH BRLCAD 1 BRL-CAD
13:36.27brlcad"man brlcad says (3)" .. where do you see that?
13:37.13brlcadthe other specifications of "10", "19", "m" or "z" probably work because they're invalid and it finds it
13:44.02``Erikmine says 1 on obsd
13:44.24``Erik$ find /usr/brlcad -name brlcad.1
13:44.27``Erik/usr/brlcad/man/man1/brlcad.1
13:45.43brlcadthe fact that it came up for him in 'n' is interesting, I saw that many years ago on a configuration that I don't recall
13:46.00brlcadwhich man?
13:46.34brlcadi.e. file `which man`
13:55.05brlcadCIA-4: poke
13:55.21``Erikkinky O.o
13:55.46brlcadprobably overloaded again or something
13:55.46brlcadmicah really should get that off his server
13:56.08brlcadsuch a flakey host with limited resources
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14:06.53Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~$ file `which man`
14:06.53Z80-Boy/usr/bin/man: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1, for OpenBSD, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
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15:56.34``Erik*yawn*
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16:30.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/win/makedefs: look for 8.5
16:32.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/ (pkgIndex.tcl.in pkgIndex.tcl): retemplatize pkgIndex.tcl so that the appropriate paths are searched for the blt library, include the source directory in the search just in case we're running uninstalled.
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16:34.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: the library is expected to be named libBLT with another that includes the dotless version as a suffix.
16:35.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: expand BLT_LIBRARY so it can be used in the blt pkgIndex.tcl file, generate the pkgIndex.tcl file and resort the src/other output entries correctly
16:42.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: ws
17:44.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_comb.c: prefix mat_categorize with db_comb_ to kill an XXX, even though it's static
17:47.06``Erikhuh, that's... scary.
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18:07.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: pass a pointer instead of copying the string to stack
18:11.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor simplification
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18:59.25``Erikholy crap,
19:01.43yukonbob?"v5"
19:03.30``Erik.g version
19:04.32Z80-Boy``Erik: should I report to sourceforget that brlman doesn't work?
19:08.20``Erikum, it works for me on obsd41 with cvs head... O.o I'm not sure what's going on with your bo
19:08.21``Erikx
19:20.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: a mostly-functional v5 copy_v5_comb
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20:33.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: some move to bu_vls strings
20:41.03brlcad``Erik: shouldn't access vls_str directly, go through bu_vls_addr()
20:41.49brlcadvls_str isn't necessarily the string, it is optionally offset too depending on what vls operations you call
20:42.01brlcadaddr gives you the char*
20:49.43``Erikokie, didn't know O.o parse.c uses direct access extensively
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20:52.49starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks for adding me to the credits list :-)
20:52.53brlcadprobably performance optimization
20:53.06brlcadstarseeker: hey, you're the one doing the hard work :)
20:53.36starseekerHehe - not so hard (yet), more like long distance running
20:55.24yukonbobbrlcad: did you tell cvs to let me commit?
20:55.32starseekeryukonbob:  He did
20:55.36yukonbobnice
20:55.58starseekerI think you left before he let you know
20:56.34``Erikyukonbob == brad harder?
20:56.42yukonbobindeed
20:56.45``Erikcoo'
20:57.00``Erikyeah, you're listed as 'content management'
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070926

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070926

00:39.04yukonbobCIA-4: up-and-running?
00:40.13yukonbobstarseeker: we're going to have to talk (maybe w/ brlcad) how we want to organize images.
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01:07.00brlcadyukonbob: nice!
01:07.28brlcadseems to be getting stuck a lot today
01:12.09*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:19.49yukonbobbrlcad: thx -- I'm pretty happy w/ it -- now i need to clean references (ie: remove "hard notes" and make a proper bibliograpy) and cleanup the title page/authors/dedications, etc... otherwise, I bet (and hope) it's only minor issues that we'll want to fix.
01:21.04yukonbob...and fix images.
01:21.46yukonbobbut I've got references in all the right places to grab what's necessary once I have copies of the proper images.
01:24.13yukonbobbrlcad: how do you build docbook XML -> pdf? I use openjade/jadetex/dvipdf -- if you run a diff't setup, I'd be curious to see the resultant pdf. (test_img.ps is a random 236x200 img)
01:24.52starseekerbrlcad - very nice!!
01:24.56starseekerer yukonbob
01:25.39yukonbob:)
01:26.33yukonbobregarding images -- I guess we could just create an "img" directory and pull from that? Unless it's going to be too problematic pulling all the images from a single dir... but I doubt it will be... comments?
01:28.03starseekerI think that makes sense - I would like to have some kind of sensible naming convention for images, but that's probably not possible until the final organization is done
01:28.20starseekerbrlcad had some ideas about how he wanted to re-org things, but we're a ways from that
01:36.23brlcadyeah, dealing with images is always a stickler, no matter the format
01:37.17brlcadinclination would be a global 'images' directory, though per-dir images or just putting images in the dir with their respective xml could work too
01:37.59brlcadit gets trickier when you want to reuse images in multiple places, assuming some sort of hierarchical organization to the documentation, with data in multiple places
01:39.01brlcadthinking of them as source files helps, you often just end up with a data resources directory where the images and other "loaded" resources are kept that the source files refer to (which are docbook files in this case, global entity refs)
01:42.26yukonbob...or just a single global img dir, as  I think about it...
01:42.51brlcadhm, I'd rather shove the non-production stuff into the website -- the holy grail would be to get mediawiki to docbook working as well as docbook to mediawiki so files could be edited either on the wiki or directly, and have the changes tracked and propagated
01:43.21brlcadother files will grow the source tarballs exceptionally fast, as well as the revision root files
01:43.44yukonbobmakes sense -- in that case, everything in the repos. will be "production".
01:44.00brlcadwe used to have the pdfs in cvs before going open source, with many revisions of each.. well over a gb of relatively "useless" data
01:44.19starseekerouch
01:44.52brlcadstarseeker: I think at least for now, wiki spam woes aren't really a concern
01:45.04starseekerOK :-)
01:45.31brlcadthe measures we have in place in bz have worked exceptionally well (like one incident a month at best), and that gets massive exposure
01:45.41starseekerVery nice!
01:46.02starseekerwe should probably look at that - the measures Bill ultimately put in place on Axiom have proved rather unfriendly
01:46.05brlcadwe used to have major major problems, but after trying a dozen different things, we seem to have it sorted out
01:46.14starseekercool
01:46.21brlcadwe even were able to retain anonymous edits
01:46.33yukonbob!
01:47.25brlcadrecaptcha alone did wonders to thwart almost all of the automated stuff, though there's also a blacklisting in place as well as a few other measures
01:47.44yukonbobgood to know...
01:48.26brlcadwe'd gone through about 5 captcha systems before it, all useless
01:48.57brlcadeven having people answer questions while helpful, didn't mitigate everything
01:49.22brlcadyukonbob: sure .. the difference is about 2 billion dollars a year ;-)
01:49.43starseekerCool!  I saw the recaptcha thing go by on slashdot, and it sounded like a really good idea
01:50.11brlcadnot only is the idea good, the captcha itself that they use is pretty much one of the best so far
01:50.28brlcadcould just be a matter of time for someone to reliably "crack it"
01:51.06starseekerWell, at the very least it will force someone to invent some really good OCR algorithms ;-)
01:52.40yukonbobbrlcad: re: solidworks -- is that about it? /me sees buzzwords like "parametric feature-based" -- is it basically that they handle edits a bit different?
01:57.17yukonbobI guess that's another difference between solidworks and brlcad
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02:00.15IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/xsystem.png   :)
02:00.16brlcadsolidworks is one of the "big four"  (unigraphics/nx, catia, solidworks, and pro/engineer) solid modeling systems, all 1bn+ gross revenue businesses
02:00.16starseekerHumph - correct me if I'm wrong, but did they just patent sub-component searching of data objects? http://www.google.com/patents?id=L6B6AAAAEBAJ&dq=Solidworks
02:00.46IriX64sorry
02:00.49brlcadcumulatively, those four are about the domain of autodesk/autocad
02:01.04brlcadjust focusing in the drafting and 2d design sectors
02:01.44yukonbobIriX64: show us the models  _you_ make :)
02:01.47brlcadyukonbob: there are plenty of other differences, the biggest is probably the support for parametric surfaces and feature edits
02:02.21IriX64yukonbob: you would cower in fear at the sight ;)
02:02.49yukonbobbrlcad: /me doesn't even know defintion of parametric, but any kinds of edits are w/i the realm of brl-cad...
02:03.05brlcadparametric surfaces very closely relate to having brep spline surface support, something we're just now getting added -- with several manyears of effort invested, there's still a LOT to do
02:03.48yukonbob?tough science (ie: seperate from implementing in code)
02:03.52brlcadright now, i'm just talking about fundamental representation support, what that turns into with respect to a GUI and generalized editing user interface is yet another level of work and complexity on top of the representation
02:04.25brlcadsome of it is exceptionally hard (mathematically and algorithmic), some of it is grunt coding ;)
02:04.42starseekerooo - math :-)
02:05.26starseekerTrimmed NURBs?
02:05.50brlcadeven with some of the best education and experience, some of the implementation details are simply trade secrets that aren't readily published or available in quality formats, so you are basically doing computer graphics research just to get things working
02:06.10starseekerIndeed.
02:07.07starseekerbrlcad;  Is this a reasonable introduction to some of the surface representation ideas?  http://iit-iti.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/iit-publications-iti/docs/NRC-45828.pdf
02:08.35brlcadthe other "difference" that largely stems from the size and complexity of the domain is that you can mean so many things when you say CAD (from 2D to 3D to 4D to parametric to implicit to explicit to drafting, machining, manufacturing, analysis, designing, and then some) .. the needs are so vast that the tools generally are written to be this massive bag of tricks with relatively complex interfaces that take a while to learn
02:09.04brlcadmged's really no more complex to learn, it just beats you up during the process on top of all you're trying to learn :)
02:09.50starseekerseparates the men from the boys ;-)
02:10.02starseeker(or women from the girls as the case may be...)
02:10.12brlcadyukonbob: I don't mind it either, but then it generally only beats you once .. once you know, you know and it's efficient ;)
02:10.58brlcadi do mind that it's hard for some folks that really do try to learn it, but then fail to find the information they need -- you have to really look at the source code or find an existing expert
02:11.09yukonbobbrlcad: indeed -- it does what's necessary (reads a line of input) and gets out of the way ;)
02:11.48brlcadstarseeker: not really, that's just a paper on tessellating nurbs surfaces -- a good one, but not as an overview of surface representations
02:12.03yukonbobwell, this documentation rewrite will hopefully get the docs "out there" more, and the new website might spawn a new community, faq, wiki, etc.
02:12.29starseekerbrlcad:  Ah.  Are there good "standard" introductory papers on the topic?
02:12.32brlcadI've got some really great pictures that show some of the basic differences that I've prepared for various presentations that work pretty well for explaining it -- I'll see if I have release authority on them next week
02:12.40starseekercool :-)
02:13.30brlcadthat tessellation of nurbs surfaces is actually one of the critical steps needed for fully multi-rep systems ... :)
02:14.16brlcadnow that we have the structure working with ray-tracing (minus some acne issues), the next step is tessellation, CSG evaluation of NURBS, and then implicit to BREP conversions
02:14.32yukonbobstarseeker: brlcad and I were discussing shooting rays and how alien lasers could be modelled on earth equip to see strength/weaknesses
02:15.21brlcadto give you an idea of what that translates to in code, that paper basically boils down to the guts implementation of src/librt/g_brep.cpp's rt_brep_tess() function
02:15.37brlcadwhich presently just returns -1 ;)
02:15.42starseekerLOL
02:15.51yukonbob?not 42
02:16.19IriX64thats only half the answer the whole answer is 84
02:16.24IriX64:)
02:16.49starseeker(digest-paper 'NRC-45828) -> -1  Error:  paper contains nothing useful ;-)
02:16.54yukonbobIriX64: show us some models!!
02:16.57brlcadthere are actually a handful of instances of 42 in the sources ;)
02:17.45brlcadIriX64: did you ever get Jamie to attach the brl-cad headers to that hex.c program?
02:18.40starseekeryukonbob:  I'd have to say lasers are cool, but in atmosphere I'd vote for the mini-railgun on a tank :-)
02:18.50brlcadif you're working on something here and run across a paper that isn't free that you need, just lemme know
02:19.04starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks!
02:19.22starseekerIs there a "global CAD bibliography" in the brlcad tree somewhere?
02:20.43brlcadi've started one offline, but no not really
02:21.11brlcadthat was one of the things for the new website, I've got a few dozen publications that refer to, use, or relate to BRL-CAD that are relevant
02:21.21starseekerAh :-)
02:23.50brlcadthere's a mini bibliography in the AUTHORS file .. that really doesn't belong there, but has a few items
02:24.00brlcadat the end
02:25.47starseekerOK :-)
02:27.41starseekerbrlcad:  Has anyone in the BRL-CAD project ever looked at the VTK toolkit?
02:28.26brlcadoh yeah
02:28.41brlcadpretty heavily for a while
02:29.11brlcadhttp://ogigi.polsl.pl/biuletyny/zeszyt_14/z14cz3_6.pdf  isn't too shabby, it at least mentions many of the formats and issues albeit a bit biased
02:29.17starseekerHow bad is the impedance mismatch between the API of the toolkit and what brl-cad needs?
02:29.33brlcadvolumetric, parametric, implicit, explicit, brep, and nurbs at a glance
02:30.09starseekerCool - thanks!
02:32.33brlcadah, almost forgot about mike's old writeup -- http://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/papers/90nmg/joined.html
02:33.03starseekerexcellent!
02:33.18brlcadstarseeker: yeah, the question of interface and environments has been long-discussed and worked on
02:33.32brlcadparticularly for building a new interactive modeler
02:34.15brlcadthe brief summary is that all the non-commercial options we're stuck with pretty much are all inadequate or outright suck to various degrees of suckage :)
02:34.16starseekerDid a consensus emerge?
02:34.22starseekerah :-)
02:34.31starseekereven VTK?  nuts
02:34.42brlcadthere are some workable options, a handful really
02:35.34brlcadVTK has some very nice aspects, and several downsides
02:36.23brlcadpart of it (and not to their faulting) is that the biggest issue/debate is really that of the user interface itself, for which VTK doesn't really directly address
02:37.08starseekerAh
02:39.10starseekerNo wonder Paraview isn't much help then - it is solving a different UI problem (or maybe a small subset of it, depending)
02:39.32brlcadthere's your windowing environment (think difference between windowed and full-screen), the graphics context (think opengl and quartz and framebuffers), the GUI elements (think gtk/qt, wxwidgets, cegui, blenderui, etc), and the UI methodologies (think modalities, MDI, custom behaviors, etc)
02:39.56starseekerAh yes.
02:40.23brlcadVTK is fairly situated around the graphics context layer only
02:40.28starseekerright
02:40.58starseekerthe GUI elements are probably the biggest issue, particularly given the portability ambitions of BRL-CAD...
02:41.13brlcadsomething like SDL does windowing, context, and some minor UI methodology
02:41.47starseekerThe only library I've ever seen that attempted to paper over ALL GUI element environments was the Lisp CLIM project, which isn't mature and is in the wrong language anyway...
02:42.26brlcadit's not that you want something that does them all, but it's good to recognize what pieces are still missing and what problems are being solved
02:42.44brlcadthe first two are fairly easy to get set up and are rarely a bottleneck unless you mess something up big
02:43.03brlcadVTK becomes a pressing need when the context is the bottleneck
02:43.19brlcador something like it, as it deals with the data management aspects well
02:43.25starseekerOK.
02:43.26brlcadas does something like OpenSceneGraph
02:44.05brlcadOGRE is in a similar boat but then of course being a render engine has nothing to do with GUI so you still need a GUI toolkit
02:45.18starseekerIIRC Blender sidestepped the UI kit by writing their own in GL or some such?
02:45.24brlcaddeciding on your UI methodologies is a tricky (religious) topic but is at least something we can probably pin down in our domain
02:45.40brlcadyes, they wrote their own UI toolkit
02:45.45starseekerouch
02:45.47brlcadwhich has been both a major blessing and major curse :)
02:46.37starseekerAs for MDI related issues - isn't that something that can ultimately be user configurable if the right design decisions are made?  (The Gimp non-withstanding...)
02:46.40brlcadit kept them really agile in the early days, and made for a nice scalable opengl interface that looks the same everywhere
02:47.03brlcadsometimes it can, sometimes it's pretty fundamental
02:47.12starseekerHmm.
02:47.33brlcade.g. mged is pretty heavily multi-windowed .. some of the major windows can be combined but there are still a slew of independent dialogs and tool panels
02:47.50starseekerTrue
02:47.53brlcadthat was a design decision for better or worse that impacts the usability, feel, and appeal
02:48.25brlcadsolidworks is pretty much a one-window interface with most of the content interlayed into the 3D scene
02:49.14starseekerSounds like something a workflow analysis would be good for
02:49.20brlcadunigraphics is totally different (and probably one of the best at being modeless)
02:50.36starseekerWow.  
02:51.21brlcadIn designing the new interface for our modeler, I've always had a particular vision of configurable usability that I think is a good blend of some of the best ideas out there, taking a key from probably the most successful interface makers in the industry
02:52.45brlcadWWAGD .. "what would a game do" .. the gaming industry has by far put the most research and iteration redesign into effective interfaces over the last decade
02:53.06starseekerthat's a point, definitely
02:53.13brlcadthey have to grab the users attention, teach them sometimes utterly complex interfaces and do so quickly and make them actually enjoy it
02:54.42brlcadthat single approach alone drives a lot of the decisions of what I've had in mind, something that makes CAD appealing, that is straightforward to code with regards to design decisions, and is outright enjoyable
02:54.54brlcadwithout actually making it a game of course :)
02:55.16starseekerhehe
02:55.17yukonbobno flight-sim easter egg?
02:55.22brlcadmebbie :)
02:55.37brlcada tank sim would be more apropriate given our history :)
02:55.54starseekerwhen the newbie crashes, BRL-CAD would take them through a crash simulation in full detail ;-)
02:56.22starseekerBZflag - now with solid model damage simulation
02:56.49brlcadthat's not far from what we do already in the analysis domain ;)
02:57.08yukonbobembed bzflag...
02:57.17brlcad(with the analysis codes hooking into brl-cad for geometry interrogation and representation)
02:57.39starseekerneat
03:01.55yukonbobchat later, starseeker
03:05.55brlcadcya
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05:55.28yukonbobbrlcad: re: coverity -- do I talk to you to talk to coverity for access to their analysis?
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15:36.49``Erik<PROTECTED>
15:37.41``Erikheh, 3.5 years ago, a modified version of bzflag using BRL-CAD models and real vulnerability code was seriously discussed O.o
15:44.08santorumbzflag is a game somehow connected to BRL-CAD?
15:46.40minuteIn a very convoluted way, yes.
15:49.33``Erikbrlcad is a major developer on both
15:50.11``Erikand BRL-CAD was/is primarily developed (on tax dollars, anyways) for doing simulations on army armored vehicles... :) like, y'know, tanks, 'n stuff
15:50.49santorumand to make models of Ronja
15:51.01santorumat least the tax money are used in a partially useful way
15:53.30``Erikmeh, the funding avenue that BRL-CAD is part of saves metric assloads of money, and I think BRL-CAD is one of the most useful bits of the pipeline... *shrug* one of the least fucked up, anyways :D I mean, c'mon, free to the world!
15:54.09``Erikprobably the second most used thing I have a commit bit for (OpenAL is probably more used)
15:54.44``Erik<-- still hasn't gotten a fbsd bit :D
15:56.48santorumwe're still waiting for open source nukes...
15:57.38santorumhe, surfers! Why read all those weather charts? Download our open source nuke manual, put together couple of them in your garage, dump them into the sea, shoot and you'll have great waves!
16:01.08santorumHow programming works:
16:01.10MaloeranOuch. Perhaps if you want to surf with a whole aircraft carrier
16:01.12santorum1) start with empty program
16:01.22santorum2) debug until you have desired functionality properly working
16:01.48santorumbut the tubes must be impressive
16:04.30archivistgoing to need a tsunami for that
16:05.06santorumactually have you heard about solitons?
16:05.30MaloeranSome kind of stable wave?
16:05.34santorumyes
16:05.49santorumthey found it when a large boat abruptly stopped in a narrow canal in England
16:05.58santorumand that created a wave that smoothly ran along the canal
16:06.11santorumwihtout actually undulating, falling apart or anything like that
16:06.17santorumdiminishing only very slowly
16:06.34MaloeranThere must still be some serious loss of energy due to viscosity
16:06.42santorumDo you think these solitons could be made easily surfable?
16:06.43archivisttraveling behind a ship on a canal is fun
16:07.09santorumcause one could take some old railway tunnel, fill it with water and send solitons down the tunnel
16:07.14santorumit would be like a winter surf park :)
16:07.24MaloeranBy the dynamics involved in a surf wave, I would say there's a big loss of kinetic energy there, I don't think it could be very stable
16:07.50santorumwhat about making it high but just before it starts making whitewater?
16:07.53archivistsurfer takes the energy out
16:07.54santorumSo it runs smoothly
16:08.05santorumsure
16:09.06``Erikthem crew boys are odd http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:14316
16:11.33``Erikalmost as odd as canucks http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:15608
16:11.34``Erik:D
16:12.21santorumhttp://www.vcharkarn.com/vphysics/pictures/A273p1x1.jpg
16:12.24archivisthttp://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive10/2005-09-06_motorcycleass.html
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16:28.16brlcadyukonbob: yes, I've talked to the coverity folks
16:28.45brlcadthey actually set us up with a free scan a few months ago.. the scan was only partial though as something in their setup failed -- it's not been updated/changed since
16:28.57brlcadI pinged them on the status a few weeks ago, but have yet to hear a response yet
16:31.04brlcadsantorum: working on bzflag is one of my other passions, I'm one of the core devs, leading contributor, project admin, yada yada .. good stuff.  it's a nice diversion and different style of coding environment (with exceptionally different user base of course)
16:49.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: use RT_LIBS since we need libbu and other libs that are missing. hopefully helps with unresolved symbols on ubuntu, but there's probably more cases like this that need fixing.
16:55.03yukonbobbrlcad: cool -- I'd be interested in reviewing the brl-cad code as marked by coverity once you hear back from them...
16:58.18``Erikheh, join the club :) until then, use shtuff like 'flawfinder'
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16:59.42minutebrlcad: The pdfs, are they all going to be transfered to some over format then archived somewhere other than the wiki (i.e. deleted from the wiki) or will they always remain on the wiki and the other format offered by default?
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18:24.58brlcadyukonbob: yeah, I'm really curious to see what they find as well
18:25.37brlcadalas the partial they did do didn't even get to brl-cad sources, aborted early on in tcl/tk sources (they weren't ignoring src/other yet)
18:26.25yukonbob:P
18:26.36brlcadminute: good question, not sure I'd remove them from the wiki anytime soon
18:26.58brlcadif they were autogenerated nightly or something, then the wiki might be eventually updated to just point to the file instead of it actually being stored "in" the wiki
18:27.15brlcadlike a standard brlcad.org/docs/ path or something
18:33.48minutebrlcad: yeah
18:34.11minutesounds good
18:48.29brlcadwe can cross that bridge when the docs are actually fully integrated into the build system and being auto-generated
18:48.48brlcadstarseeker: with regards to toolchain, I think if you have a toolchain that works, then that's the one to start with
18:48.59brlcadjade seemed to be the best choice regardless
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18:54.18IriX64http://rafb.net/p/9N81gB57.html <--- this happening to anybody else?
18:56.05IriX64rerunning with verbose
19:06.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_ogl.c: don't assume that stdout isn't being used, bu_log will likely someday be changed to log to out instead of err
19:07.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: do the same on windows, don't close our output channels
19:12.25brlcadIriX64: did you ever get Jamie to attach the brl-cad headers to that hex.c program?
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19:12.45IriX64I was never asked
19:12.56IriX64but ill pass that on
19:13.12IriX64he says you do it.
19:13.35brlcadI can't, it's a legality matter
19:13.48IriX64what should he put in
19:14.01IriX64he's listening
19:14.35IriX64is it in read.me?
19:21.24IriX64shot myself in the foot, mea culpa :(
19:37.48brlcadsorry, someone stopped by
19:37.53brlcadsee the header on any of the existing files
19:38.07IriX64sure
19:38.13brlcador run the sh/header.sh script
19:38.20brlcadthat'll attach the header automatically
19:38.24IriX64even better
19:38.41IriX64when he does it ill post it
19:38.46brlcadcool
19:39.02brlcadplease be sure to have him put his full name in there as the Author
19:39.10IriX64right
19:39.13brlcadso he can be attributed correctly
19:40.50brlcadtyping this on the fly, but this should be an example:  http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/cvsroot/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c
19:42.10brlcadah, here we go: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/src/libpkg/tpkg.c
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19:52.32IriX64thanks
20:47.05starseekerbrlcad:  OK, sounds good - yukonbob I think has had some success with the jade route
20:53.04yukonbobstarseeker: indeed I have -- use that Makefile I sent you as a template... what kind of system are you trying to build on (ie: FreeBSD, Debian, Red Hat, Windows, MacOS X)...
20:53.42starseekerI'm not yet - I'm stubbornly trying to finish the markup to a valid state first ;-)  Gentoo is my primary platform, so I already have jade installed
20:55.26yukonbobstarseeker: you should consider incremental builds, so you can check to see if errors are cropping up along the way. If you need a hand retro-fitting the Makefile, or with managing the .xml file, drop a note...
20:55.43starseekerIt's a good idea.
20:56.17starseekerI've just been "on a roll" and also trying to make it go faster by doing "type specific" formatting - e.g. getting all the informal tables at once
20:56.49yukonbobwell, you know where to reach me if I can help :)
20:57.18starseekerYep :-)  Thanks!
21:02.41starseekeryukonbob:  I can't recall offhand - does openjade require a TeX install?
21:04.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/Makefile.am: use FB_LIBS instead, pick up the other dependencies that are needed
21:10.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_4d.c if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c if_sun.c if_wgl.c):
21:10.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: BAM! .. lingering windows is now the default. it only took hundreds of
21:10.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: complaints and 20 years of development. this change makes it the default for
21:10.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: most of the existing active framebuffer interface types, also adding a \\t\
21:10.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: option to complement the existing \\l\ option to allow folks to obtain the
21:10.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: previous behavior if needed. all this mode code really should be consolidated
21:10.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: and made consistent, but that is a chore for another day.
21:18.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: termio apparently needs TERMLIB (need to verify), and don't include the optional FB_LIBS since the Makefile.am takes care of it. optical does use/need librt; tclcad needs libfb
21:19.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: lingering framebuffer windows are now the default
21:24.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/library/.cvsignore: ignore generated pkgIndex.tcl
21:24.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 10 dirs):
21:24.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: the libraries really need to libadd all of their requisite dependencies or there
21:24.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: will be unresolved symbols on platforms; this isn't just a libtool issue
21:24.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: (libtool needs this info). this change will hopefully help the build on a few
21:24.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: other platforms, though I suspect there are still a few obscure cases (with
21:24.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: buggy libtool) where unresolved symbols might be encountered with dynamic/shared
21:24.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: libadd libraries not getting carried through to the linker line for binaries.
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21:46.34louipcThis SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
21:46.35louipclol
21:59.56brlcadheh, nice catch
21:59.59brlcadi didn't see that
22:11.56archivistthe cheeky buggers managed a sqlserver google add on mysql's site once
22:17.45brlcadheh
22:28.19MaloeranI'm a bit surprised by all the advertisement from Microsoft on SF, I thought they would be a bit more picky about the ads they accept
22:36.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 10.
22:39.00starseekerMaloeran:  Hey, if they want to fund the opposition who are we to object? ;-)
22:39.41louipcit's like trying to sell wheelchairs to able bodied people
22:40.00starseekerPretty much ;-)
22:40.29starseekerI was a bit surprised to see Microsoft advertising there though
22:41.06louipcyeap
22:41.51starseekercrud, shopping list
22:42.16starseekerback into the maelstrom...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070927

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070927

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00:20.44IriX64why am I missing the lib that has XParseColor in it :(
00:22.13IriX64have the H file but not the lib
00:22.45MaloeranAre you linking against libX11 ?
00:22.52IriX64and bwish wants it sigh
00:22.54IriX64yes
00:23.15Maloerangrep XParseColor /usr/lib/lib*
00:23.23IriX64did nor there
00:23.26IriX64not
00:23.36IriX64oh wait
00:23.59MaloeranCompile with -lX11 , you really should have it
00:25.09IriX64nothing in usr lib, i found the h in usr/X11R6
00:27.02IriX64ill try reinstalling x11
00:32.11IriX64heh or maybe ill force a link :)
00:40.00``Erikif you can't find it in /usr/lib (or /lib, should be a link on cyggy), it won't link no matter what you do...
01:02.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/dnNdbM40.html <--- moving on whats this?
01:34.30``Erikheh, looks like you pulled one of brlcad's gimpy mutilations to cope with broken libtools :D libbu is being linked twice
01:40.17IriX64thanks :)
01:41.11IriX64it happened again in remrt, same reason i presume :D
01:43.14IriX64btw, mged uses that XParseColor thing too :(
01:43.21brlcadthat's not what that is, it's saying there are two in two separate files
01:43.51IriX64heh ``Erik spoke, I shut up :)
01:44.19brlcadand there actually are two bu_bomb() functions -- intentionally
01:44.40IriX64why not just use the libbu one?
01:44.51brlcadwhat is odd is that it's erroring out on you instead of letting the one outscope the other like it normally does
01:45.18IriX64man multiples are not allowed
01:46.01brlcadbecause lgt captures various call events (like bu_bomb) and does its own thing (namely in this instance flushes an image buffer
01:46.33IriX64then it shouldnt be called the same
01:47.00brlcadit actually overrides the calls in routines that it doesn't have access to that you wouldn't want to rename
01:47.08IriX64specially if your linking gainst a lib that has it already :)
01:47.10brlcadso it sorta needs to be called the same
01:47.41brlcadthe real question is still why specifically is it error'ing
01:48.03IriX64my compiler doesn't allow multiple definitions
01:48.14brlcaddude, you have no idea why it's happening
01:48.15IriX64you can tell it to tho and i did
01:48.22brlcadyou're just reading the message
01:48.32IriX64ok
01:48.44brlcadthat doesn't mean there isn't an option that allows it
01:49.02IriX64see above
01:49.10brlcador even that something else isn't provoking the error like a declaration mismatch
01:49.37IriX64that would be reported seperatly
01:49.48brlcadnot necessarily
01:49.54IriX64redefinition of etc etc
01:50.29brlcadif it were redefined yes, but not if it was a mismatch
01:50.39IriX64define mismatch
01:50.47brlcadone symbol's in a lib in an entirely separate compilation unit, and doesn't even necessarly pull in that header decl
01:51.08IriX64don't understand
01:51.30brlcadI didn't really expect you to
01:51.35IriX64ok
01:52.41brlcadthis isn't really a productive conversation.. you can't debug that, and I don't have that environment set up to debug it for myself just yet
01:53.16IriX64true
01:53.26brlcadlast time I compiled on cygwin, it compiled fully and neither lgt nor bu_bomb() has changed since then
01:53.41brlcadso something else is still "up" and it just needs some dev attention
01:53.59IriX64last time i compiled on cygwin nothing went right :)
01:55.23brlcadthat seems to be usually the case, and will likely continue to be the case until someone that can trace through the issues has that environment set up
01:55.51brlcadI might be inclined to do that some weekend soon, but the website and other code matters are in line first
01:56.02IriX64of course
01:58.06brlcadif you set up ssh access, I could be even more readily coerced to look into the build problems
01:58.41IriX64ill think about it.
02:09.50yukonbob?think about it -- the lead dev. is offering to fix your specific problem in the _actual_ problem environment
02:15.47IriX64man this is a hobby for me
02:23.37IriX64thats what i get for forcing a link, attach (nu|X) X =core dumped :)
02:24.51IriX64well X is buggered here lets try ogl
02:30.37IriX64i mean brlcad has better things to do with his time than babysit me yukonbob, thats all.
02:31.12yukonbobre: hobby -- so that means you don't mind if it doesn't work?
02:31.21IriX64right :)
02:31.33IriX64no production environment here
02:31.37yukonbobsounds like a frustrating hobby ;)
02:31.45IriX64fun actually
02:47.11louipchaha
02:56.48IriX64yukonbob, that also explains why there none of *my own models :)
02:57.31IriX64brlcad gave me a paper moose, I didn't know where to begin
02:57.46yukonbobwe're waiting... ;) Next havoc I see, I'm going to reach through the internet and take your modem away.
02:58.03IriX64heh ill try cube ;)
03:00.05IriX64meaning i'm just a block head :D
03:14.56louipcpaper moose?
03:21.22IriX64pix of one
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03:34.32IriX64sigh :)
03:35.46IriX64wonder if BitchX is more stable, or apropro here :)
03:54.36IriX64nite all
04:15.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
04:15.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: nirt fails to report LOS and sometimes even hits on a BoT that is inverted or
04:15.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: unoriented. most annoying is that just sometimes fails to report a hit while
04:15.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: other times it just fails to report an LOS thickness, even though it does find a
04:15.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: hit.
04:20.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: formatting
05:21.49yukonbobstarseeker: re: openjade -- I don't think openjade require any form of TeX, but jadetex probably will -- lemme see if I can see what the deps are on my 'puter here...
05:23.10yukonbobInformation for openjade-1.3.2nb5:
05:23.11yukonbobBuilt using:
05:23.11yukonbobopensp-1.5.2
05:23.11yukonbobxmlcatmgr-2.2nb1
05:23.27yukonbobInformation for tex-jadetex-3.13nb5:
05:23.28yukonbobBuilt using:
05:23.28yukonbobtex-hugelatex-2.0nb4
05:23.28yukonbobteTeX-bin-3.0nb14
05:23.28yukonbobdigest-20070803
05:23.50yukonbob... if you're using portage, that should take care of everything, though...
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12:57.41``Erikbahhh
13:20.15brlcadhummmbug
13:23.31``Erikahhhhh bumhug </beavis>
13:24.34``Erikradmind stomping /Library/Tcl/macports1.0 is getting irritating... not nearly as irritating as stomping the parallels drivers, though.
13:26.45Z80-BoyHmm, brl-cad produces .pix files where suddenly the lower part of the file is brighter
13:26.53Z80-Boyrt produces, to be more precise
13:27.35``Erikah, filenames are no longer part of ChangeLog? that was probably the most strusfrating part about that file :D
13:28.11``Erikclock: pix-png and post?
13:28.53Z80-BoySure that's gonna happen
13:29.12Z80-BoyI am just trying to figure out if it's accidentally not triggered by stopping the rendering and then restarting it again.
13:30.00``Erikahhhhh, heh
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14:14.40Z80-BoyThen it is caused by breaking the raytrace and restarting it.
14:15.10Z80-BoyAnd now I realized it doesn't go from top to bottom, but from bottom to top
14:15.16brlcadthat's curious, although not entirely surprising
14:15.21Z80-Boyso after the break, it doesn't render lighter, but darker
14:15.31Z80-Boybut why?
14:15.36brlcadit will try to continue a raytrace from the point that it left off at if there's data already partially written
14:16.09brlcadso it's continuing where it left off at instead of starting over (which was a big deal when the images took hours)
14:16.20Z80-BoyActually it's more complicated
14:16.35Z80-BoyThe unbroken images are all "dark" (= black background)
14:17.12brlcadbut apparently from what youit's not picking up where it left off at .. probably due to resetting the image gamma or something
14:17.36brlcadis this in a framebuffer or to a file that you see the banding?
14:18.21brlcadmmmm.. the dual quad cores are more than twice as fast as wopr cpu-wise
14:18.58brlcadalthough still exceptionally slower with I/O .. compiling still takes 5-10 minutes (where on the altix it takes just 2-4 minutes)
14:20.12brlcadgetting a vgr of about 12000 for a 12-processor altix .. which seems a bit lower than I recall, but that's with all of the bells and whistles turned on
14:20.55brlcadnot using intel compiler, thought .. that might be what I'm remembering being about 17000
14:21.30brlcadnew mac workstations are coming up at 26000 for me, though .. freaking sweet
14:23.58Z80-Boyinto a .pix file
14:24.14Z80-Boydon't know how to reproduce yet
14:24.31Z80-Boyfaster than running a compile for a week and rebooting the machine at random intervals
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17:34.20``Erikhttp://www.bah3.org/main/index.html  is amusing
17:35.18``Erik4-6 miles in 60-90 minutes with several beer stops... I think Ic ould do that O.o
17:40.09``Erik"a drinking club with a running problem"
18:25.16brlcadmmm.. tcl 8.4b1 is now (really) posted
18:26.23``Erik8.5b1 ?
18:27.08brlcader, yeah
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18:33.03Z80-BoyI found and analyzed the bug with "half of the picture bright"
18:33.15Z80-BoyIt happens only when -c "set gamma=2.2" is present.
18:33.26brlcadi figured it was gamma-related
18:33.36Z80-BoyIt loads the gamma-corrected values into a buffer, then gamma-corrects them again and spits them out
18:33.47Z80-Boyif you break it multiple times, you get a "gradient" effect
18:33.49brlcadso is it basically not setting/using the gamma or are exising new values being overcorrected?
18:34.06Z80-Boyovercorrected
18:34.06brlcadah, so overcorrects
18:34.32Z80-BoyI think it should make sure the already computed values should be spitted out as they are
18:34.44Z80-BoyBut worse what I saw in the source I wasn't happy
18:35.09brlcadwe could also just get rid of all that "restart" code
18:35.20Z80-Boy1) it seems to never output 0,0,0. That's wrong. If 0,0,0 is in the scene (real black), I want real black and no distorted picture in the form of deep blue!
18:35.27``Erikbrlcad: /opt/ is ignored by radmind, but macports installs some stuff to /Library/Tcl/macports1.0 which gets stomped... but the stuff I'm messing with pertains to nice levels and number of concurrent jobs...
18:35.30Z80-Boy2) similarly it refused to output the background colour
18:35.45Z80-Boy3) some kind of random noise seems to be added into the image and being bravely called "dithering"
18:36.06Z80-BoyDithering is when you use spectral noise shaping - you need to use error distribution
18:36.12Z80-BoyThis is just adding noise into signal
18:36.37Z80-BoyI am also not sure if the values are properly rounded after gamma correction
18:36.59Z80-BoyI wouldn't mind getting rid of the restart code
18:37.08Z80-BoySince the idea of inband signalling is braindead
18:37.25Z80-BoyEither mark "empty pixels" by their position beyond the end of file
18:37.33brlcadoutputting 0,0,1 goes into deep history and there's fairly good reasons for why it was done that way (regardless of whether there are other ways this could be achieved today)
18:37.50``Erikit's one of those "nifty features for 20 year old machines, but causes ugly issues" type things :/
18:38.11Z80-BoyWhat's the reason for not outputting 0,0,0?
18:38.14brlcad0,0,1 can't really be changed until 8.0
18:38.26Z80-BoyI always wondered why my videos are not on black background but on something dark
18:38.26``Erikyeah, ti'd break the pix files :(
18:38.41brlcadit's break tons of stuff
18:38.42Z80-BoyWhat does it mean break pix files?
18:38.47Z80-BoyZOMG
18:38.53brlcadZ80-Boy: there is no alpha channel
18:39.00Z80-Boyand?
18:39.10``Erikis there a reason for 0x1 as black other than restart?
18:39.22brlcadthe designated "background color" for which 0,0,1 is simply the default effectively acts like an alpha channel mask without requiring the additional bandwidth
18:39.54``Erikthe pix files are used in the distribution to verify correct results when running the benchmark suite... if we change the nacent 'black' color, we'll get many many 'off-by-one' errors :)
18:40.11brlcadthat channel "mask" is used all over the place, particularly in the framebuffer library but in loads of the tools as well, for detecting background vs non-background
18:40.40Z80-Boylol it's all a crappy inband signalling design
18:40.46Z80-Boywhich actually corrupts the signal
18:40.47``Erikheh, :( magic colors can induce error
18:40.56Z80-Boysorry, your TV cannot show black, we used black as a special value
18:41.13brlcadthat's why it's not black actually
18:41.15Z80-BoyPCX could encode black
18:41.27brlcadas black is frequently requested
18:41.36Z80-Boybrlcad: what value is it then? 0,0,1?
18:41.39``Erikyes, but PCX kept a magic color, and you had to make sure you never tried to use that magic color for a legitimate pixel
18:42.12``Erik(that and the 256 color palette, ick)
18:42.25Z80-BoyI think it could encode all possible value
18:42.44``Erikand ugly rle that could blow up your image size significantly if you gave it unfriendly data, like a horizontal gradient...
18:42.44Z80-Boyif it had a RLE escape, then the RLE escape was encoded as double escape or something like that
18:43.48Z80-BoyThe gamma correction is also calculated as a separate pow() for each pixel
18:44.14Z80-Boy995328 pows for my frame... isn't that slowing down?
18:44.23Z80-BoyI did it with a 16-bit table in links.
18:45.28brlcadZ80-Boy: 0,0,1 is merely the *default* background color
18:45.35brlcadyou can still output black
18:45.39Z80-Boyso the "empty value" is 0,0,1?
18:45.44brlcador 0,0,1 if you like
18:45.45Z80-BoyAnd can I also output 0,0,1?
18:46.05Z80-Boyand can I output all possible colours with a single background colour setting?
18:46.06brlcadof course you can
18:46.17Z80-Boythen it's not what I thought it is
18:46.30brlcadare you just looking for something to bitch about because you misinterpreted something you read in the code? :)
18:46.32Z80-BoyBut what is this piece of code then?
18:46.33Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
18:46.33Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
18:46.33Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
18:47.03brlcadmake sure the *default* background color is never perfect black
18:47.19Z80-Boybut this is in view_pixel
18:47.38Z80-Boyr, g, b is actually the pixel value - the signal, the payload...
18:47.50``Erikathat only happens if the ray never intersects, I think
18:48.28Z80-Boyno it happens if ap->a_user != 0
18:48.35brlcadas for pow() .. show me a profile that shows that's a problem
18:48.40Z80-Boyand ap->a_user == 0 has comment "/* Shot missed the model, don't dither */"
18:49.11brlcadpow() is accurate, tables aren't necessarily -- and the raytrace is vastly dominated by the ray-tracing, not pixel operations
18:49.26Z80-Boybrlcad: accurate, but slow
18:49.35brlcadslow within a given context
18:49.47``Erikpretty fast if you have optimization on certain chips
18:49.50brlcadif it's 0.3% of your computation time, who cares
18:49.52Z80-Boybut you're right, it mosly chokes on the threads
18:50.02Z80-Boy``Erik: which chips?
18:50.19brlcadi'll take accurate over fast any day if there's not an order of magnitude performance difference
18:50.28``Eriklike, uh, opterons, athlons, p4's, ...
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18:50.52``Erik3dnow and I think sse2+ have approximation fu on that?
18:51.09``Erikand -ffast-math in gcc hopefully takes advantage of that
18:51.24brlcadeither way, that's the whole point of profiling .. you're totally guessing as to the performance, speculative optimization is rarely useful
18:51.27Z80-Boy-fdodgy-math :)
18:52.27brlcadabout as helpful as believing in the "gotos are bad" as an absolute -- they're bad in a given context but not always, same goes for just about every one absolute
18:52.30``Erikyes, -ffast-math accepts some error in the name of speed... is also ignores a good bit of IEEE754/854, like appropriate handling of Inf and NaN
18:52.45Z80-Boyis there a standard in C saying how floats are cast into int, whether they are chopped down, up, or rounded?
18:52.55``Eriknot in C
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18:53.07``Erikbut there is in ieee754, and it's... skeery.
18:53.09Z80-Boythen why are you doing register int r=pow()?
18:53.18Z80-Boyshouldn't it be floor(pow()+0.5)?
18:53.48Z80-Boythat floor and 0.5 is inexpensive compared to that pow.
18:53.53Maloeranroundf() which is C99
18:53.57``Erik<-- uses floor(), too *shrug*
18:54.36Z80-BoyI always wondered why there are "flashes" in the Ronja video
18:54.51Z80-BoyIt was because it takes so long to render I have to break it and then reboot
18:54.59``Erikheh
18:54.59Z80-Boyevery time I broke it, I got a flash...
18:55.15brlcadprobably just an oversight on the pow cast
18:55.40brlcador just has never mattered sufficiently
18:56.23Z80-Boyit usually goes into YUV encoding anyway and that's such unbelievable crap that it can hide anything I guss
18:57.22brlcadI'd give you commit to make some of these changes, but you couldn't go breaking backwards compatibility so readily with things like the background color
18:57.40Z80-Boyno don't give me commit it's better if a knowledgeable person revides that first
18:57.56``Erikheh
18:58.05Z80-BoyI would quickly make a surfboard hut from your code
18:58.12brlcadit'd still be revised .. I'd envision several reverts too :)
18:58.17``Erikwell, feel free to use the 'patches' tracker, someone will review and comment on it ... eventually...
18:58.30Z80-Boyor I can patch it myself and keep it ;-)
18:58.37brlcadthat you can
18:58.51``Erikas long as the license is respected, it's all good :)
18:58.51Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
18:59.00Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
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18:59.36Z80-BoyI guess povray and other "competing" (not really ;-) ) systems don't do this in-band signalling data damage
18:59.47Z80-Boybtw povray is triangle-only?
18:59.54``Erikno, povray is CSG with implicites
19:00.02Z80-Boyimplicite== ?
19:00.05``Erikbut it outputs BMP iirc?
19:00.09Z80-BoyOMG
19:00.17Z80-Boybetter than Microsoft Word, though
19:00.33``Erikheh
19:00.34``Erikhehehe
19:00.37``Erikmwahahahhahahahaa
19:00.48``Erika raytracer that outputs to excel... with each 'pixel' being a colored cell :D
19:00.54Z80-Boylol
19:00.56Z80-Boyex-cell
19:01.40``Erik'cept the moment you wnat more than, say, 80x25 renders, it crashes!
19:01.53Z80-Boycan BRL-CAD render into aalib?
19:01.55``Erikalso; white isn't really white, it's 100,000, or SUPER-white
19:01.56``ErikO.o
19:02.01Z80-Boyor better libcaca?
19:02.13Z80-Boy``Erik: you mean the 77.1*85 stuff?
19:02.16``Erikno, but you can pix-png and push that through something that talks aalib
19:02.27``Erikyeah, z80, 65536 = 100000
19:02.29Z80-Boyor play the video on aalib mplayer...
19:02.38Z80-Boy``Erik: where is the news?
19:02.44``Erikerm, slashdot?
19:02.54Z80-BoyYou know Windows Vista have to differ in something from XP - otherwise people wouldn't buy it
19:03.06Z80-BoySo they differ in the math - give BIGGER, BETTER results!
19:03.09``Erik65535 or 65536? O.o (and this was excel 2007, not windows)
19:03.17Z80-BoyWith Vista, your company accounting will shine suddenly in black numbers!
19:03.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: patch/suggestion from Z80-Boy, round the gamma-corrected values to the nearest int consistently using floor()
19:03.27Z80-BoyThey don't have Excel yet in the kernel?
19:03.38``Erikno difference to your vgr's, I presume?
19:03.54brlcadZ80-Boy: if you need clean signal data, have rt output floating point images instead
19:04.05brlcadthat's probably as raw as it gets
19:04.10Z80-Boyraw meat
19:04.19Z80-Boythen I can get HDR lol
19:04.23Z80-Boywhich format is that?
19:04.24``Erikheh, yeah, 's/clock/Karel/g;s/Z80-Boy/Karel/g;s/whineybitch/Karel/g;s/...'
19:04.27``Erik*cough* O:-)
19:04.42brlcadwhich format?
19:04.46brlcadit's raw floating point data
19:04.49``Erikor, uh, 's/clock\|Z80-Boy\|whineybitch/Karel/g'
19:04.55Z80-Boywell pix is 8-bit, which format is floating point?
19:05.21brlcaddouble-precision floating point values, network ordered, iirc
19:05.33Z80-Boyinto the output file?
19:05.46``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=105292&atid=640804   <-- and that's enough to mkae it not crap? O.o
19:06.27Z80-Boy``Erik: maybe not anymore, after I "whined" ;-)
19:06.40brlcadmanure makes excellent fertilizer
19:06.54Z80-BoyDoes it mean the arbn mirroring bug is already fixed?
19:07.33Z80-BoyBeing crap actually doesn't mean a project is bad
19:07.54Z80-BoyIf the developers fix it, like in BRL-CAD they do very quickly, it doesn't matter
19:08.04brlcadthe "problem" is that it's massive, so you don't have to look far to find an issue .. the rate of issues per lines of code isn't likely any more or less than most other projects
19:08.12Z80-BoyIt booms? No prob, you "whine" or "bitch" (actually bugreport), they fix it, there we go...
19:08.21Z80-Boymassive and oldskool :)
19:08.35brlcadand just a lot of the issues .. really don't matter -- it's like making sure there are no cobwebs in the basement .. when you never/rarely ever go into the basement
19:09.33brlcadthe last time someone needed "actual" gamma correction was a decade ago, and they were going to PAL, so it really didn't matter more than needing to make sure the colors were consistent in intensity
19:09.36Z80-Boymake ctags?
19:09.48brlcadmake tags
19:09.53Z80-Boywell gamma correction is good to make sure you don't get Mach bands in 8-bit data
19:09.59Z80-Boytags make etags which I don't use
19:10.11brlcadbut you should be  :)
19:10.12Z80-Boybrlcad: you know the TV theory?
19:10.16brlcadetags are so much better
19:10.21Z80-Boydo they work in vim?
19:10.34brlcadlike i said.. they're better, so of course not ;)
19:10.40brlcadactually I have no idea
19:10.52brlcadwouldn't be surprised either way if there was a vim module for it
19:11.14brlcadetags are just a lot better at tagging, fixed a lot of problems in ctags
19:11.19Z80-Boycould be
19:11.27Z80-Boynever tried etags actually
19:11.37brlcadeven etags gets tons of things outright wrong in a code like brl-cad
19:11.57Z80-Boyno wonder
19:12.25brlcadZ80-Boy: do you still need/want the sleep option, now that you know how to linger a window?
19:12.56Z80-Boybrlcad: with the linger I have to right click
19:13.06Z80-BoyWith sleep I don't need
19:13.20Z80-Boyit could be used in a slow-motion script so that people can check if their video doesn't contain any glitches
19:13.23Z80-Boywith -p 1
19:13.36Z80-BoyWhen the patch is already here...
19:13.51brlcadi do too, just trying to see how useful
19:14.10brlcadcan't be too much crap, it's just like 4 lines
19:14.25Z80-Boymax. 4 lines can be crappy
19:14.31Z80-Boyplus the manpage patch.
19:14.40Z80-BoyOutsider patches are mostly crap
19:14.40brlcadthe bigger issue is that of feature creep consistency, if it's going to be added, it should probably be on all the tracers
19:14.47Z80-BoyL0CALZ 0NLY!
19:15.18Z80-Boytracer == ?
19:15.28Z80-Boywell then don't add it
19:15.29brlcadray-tracers
19:15.42``Erikthat's just opt.c, no?
19:15.42Z80-Boyis pix-fb a raytracer?
19:15.43brlcadthe ones that output to framebuffer at least
19:15.54``Erikno, pix-fb is a weirdassed converter O.o
19:15.54Z80-BoyThen better not add it
19:16.03Z80-BoyMy patch was for pix-fb
19:16.26Z80-Boybrlcad: floating point files will be huge on the disk
19:16.33Z80-Boybrlcad: I think 8-bit 2.2 gamma files are fine
19:16.55Z80-BoyMy 2Y'CbCr converter takes that input format anyway
19:17.06Z80-BoyIt's much better quality that what you get from common video formats anyway
19:17.13``Erikerm, only 8x the size of a pix...
19:17.36Z80-BoyI think the clipping should be done in floating point and not in int
19:17.53Z80-Boyif you get some extreme light concentration from the raytrcing (lens)? you could get black spots
19:18.03Z80-Boy"only"
19:18.20brlcadsounds good to me, I'm not positive the dpix output was ever fully implemented myself *grin*
19:19.41Z80-Boydid you see Surf's Up?
19:19.48Z80-BoyIt's a fully rendered film about surfing penguins
19:20.06brlcadnot yet
19:20.07Z80-Boythey have the waves quite good except two things:
19:20.20Z80-Boy1) the penguin gets a stable ride at high speed which he I guess shouldn't
19:20.38Z80-Boy2) they didn't bother with calculating the waves spreading from the surfboard
19:21.04Z80-Boyalso maybe 3) the waves turn up to be suspiciously perfect
19:21.25Z80-BoyBut that wasn't rendered in brl-cad, I guess
19:22.22Z80-BoyI wonder what wavelet.c is used for, it sounds interesting.
19:22.55Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
19:22.55Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
19:22.55Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
19:23.04Z80-BoyDid you try wavelet compression of the output data?
19:23.58Z80-BoyC. S. Morrison everywhere ;-)
19:24.44Z80-Boyah no that's special thanks
19:26.03brlcada few more signficant patches bumps that up to code contributions, a *whole* lot more and you'd be up in the dev category
19:26.20brlcadhaar wavelet transforms are awesome
19:26.33Z80-Boyyeah it's like mipmaps
19:26.42brlcadkind of
19:26.54``Erik[[1 1][1 -1]] O.o heh
19:26.55brlcada great way to manipulate signal data
19:26.57Z80-BoyI once wrote a wavelet preprocessor for lossless sound compression
19:27.45brlcadperform decomposition all the way down, do a low pass filter, then reconstruct .. beautiful noise reduction
19:27.50``Erikerm, but if it's digital sound, it's already lossy :D *duck*
19:27.56brlcadand great compression characteristics
19:28.07Z80-Boybrlcad: low pass the highest band?
19:29.17brlcadit's not used anywhere, it's one of a hundred or so standalone signal processing tools
19:29.48brlcadif you see noise in the trace, it's caused by tracer options or the geometry
19:30.03brlcad(usually)
19:30.30brlcade.g. using jitter and not understanding what it means to rt
19:31.08brlcadbbiab
19:32.09``Erikhehehe, -j2 -h0 :o
19:39.34Z80-BoyIs there a simple way how to disable the restart code correctly?
19:39.44``Erikum
19:39.47``Erikin uhhhhh view.c
19:39.59Z80-BoyI'm still not getting how it works
19:40.15``Erikline, um
19:40.18``Erik1410ish
19:40.28``Erikchange HAVE_UNIX_IO to 0
19:40.31``Erikthat should do it
19:40.36Z80-Boylol :)
19:40.43``Eriknot quite 'correctly', but it should work
19:41.13``Erikwell
19:41.35Z80-Boysure, it makes sense
19:41.48``Erikpretty much every machine these days has unix i/o...
19:42.25``Erikand that should go away, oh, next week when I get around to it :)
19:42.58Z80-Boyview.c:211: error: syntax error before '<<' token
19:43.07Z80-Boylol, Z80-Boy did a blind cvs-update
19:43.19``Erikthe basic premise of how it works is probably ... not quite right... I might make it pre-fill the image to make sure there's space to write to :/
19:43.33``Erikyes, <<<<<<<<<<<< confuses C
19:43.36Z80-BoyI see brlcad is very fast
19:43.52``Erik?
19:44.05Z80-Boyhe already added the floor(pow()+0.5)
19:44.15``Erikoh yeah, almost an hour ago
19:44.26``ErikCIA-4 reported it...
19:44.49``Erikshould I give you my order?
19:45.02Z80-Boyorder?
19:45.11``Erikyou're making enough food for everyone, right?
19:45.16Z80-Boyno
19:45.22Z80-Boyit's too far away for you
19:45.46Z80-Boyunless you send Air Force One for it of course...
19:46.23``Erikheh, air farce one? O.o I don't even qualify to ride cattle on a commercial flight
19:46.48Z80-Boyfarce lol
19:46.52Z80-Boy../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so.19.1: undefined reference to `ogl_fogHint'
19:46.57Z80-BoyDo I need to rerun autogen.sh now?
19:47.03Z80-Boyor configure?
19:47.07``Erikum, gnumake shoulda done that for you
19:47.19``Eriktry, uh, make clean in libdm and rebuild?
19:47.35``Erikapparently I had some slop in my modification to configure.ac that brlcad fixed
19:48.44Z80-Boyso now if I break it in the middle of the pixfile it will just overwrite it?
19:48.58``Erikshould
19:49.07``Erikif it doesn't, I'll look into it...
19:49.19``ErikSHOULD be working on a, uh, document, though.
19:49.35Z80-BoyI need a quick hack to produce correct videos for Ronja within that week you plan to shoot it off definitely after
19:51.31Z80-Boyhave you heard about pcc?
19:52.06Z80-BoyThey want to put it into OpenBSD
19:52.14Z80-BoyIt was written in mid 70's!
19:52.23Z80-BoyEven a bit more oldschool than BRL-CAD!
19:52.35Z80-Boybrl-cad compiled successfully
19:53.41``Erikyes, ummm
19:53.46``Eriknetbsd did it, too, I think
19:53.53``Erikit's less gnu-ey than gcc
19:54.16``Erikand fbsd has an annual 'replace gcc with tendra' trollfest
19:54.38Z80-Boybut now what happens if I say have 50 frames computer from 360 and I break it and run again
19:54.44Z80-Boywill 50 frames be skipped?
19:56.07``Erikit SHOULD just disable the continuation of that one frame, and start that frame over
19:56.28Z80-Boyso complete frames will be skipped, and incomplete recalculated?
19:56.38``ErikI think so
19:56.57Z80-BoyOtherwise I need to calculate into a separate file and then do an atomic mv by the script
19:57.33Z80-Boycan the rt output color according to how long it took to calculate given ray?
19:58.18``Erikno
19:59.16Z80-Boywhat other tricks it can do apart from rt and rtedge?
19:59.41Z80-Boyrtxray lol :)
20:00.05Z80-Boyrtweight too...
20:00.42Z80-Boywow, it really skips the complete file :)
20:01.44Z80-Boybut it still does the same problem :(
20:02.26Z80-Boyoh no, that's because I forgot make install!
20:19.19Z80-BoyHmm make install didn't help :(
20:19.47yukonbob``Erik: netbsd is working/playing w/ pcc, yes.
20:53.18Z80-BoyIt's about as good idea as making it from asbestos
20:53.25Z80-Boypeople coughing blood will sue the ass out of you
21:08.15*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-024-077.pools.arcor-ip.net)
21:08.22brlcadsome of the HAVE_UNIX_IO sections don't work without modification on Windows, that's why they've not yet been removed .. needs some interactive love'n'care'n'testing else they'll just turn into !_WIN32 sections
21:13.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: merge of V5 implementation from HEAD
21:17.33``Erikooh, a b ig one O.o
21:45.46``Erik*yawn*
22:35.38*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@124-169-43-146.dyn.iinet.net.au)
22:36.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: only report the basename of the editor
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070928

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070928

00:36.48*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096600612.dsl.bell.ca)
00:37.17IriX64regards
00:40.37IriX64still can't find that xlib, darn thing mustev run off to get married or something :)
00:54.57brlcadssh access and it could potentially get fixed quickly
01:05.53yukonbob...and IriX64.
01:10.32brlcadhowdy yukonbob
01:10.35brlcadhow goes it?
01:11.24yukonbobnot bad at all... working away on projects bit-by-bit
01:11.46yukonbobyou?
01:30.36brlcadpretty good, working on a fun projected area computation task at the moment
01:30.56brlcadusing rtarea along with some scripting to see how coverage changes from various perspectives
01:31.50yukonbobso seeing what surface area is presented as an object rotates around various axes?
01:32.06brlcadsomething sort of like that
01:32.12yukonbob;)
01:32.16yukonbob"sort of"
01:33.31brlcadif this were clothing, it'd be sort of like looking at the presented surface area as different skirts and dresses are compared, and doing so from various directions so you could characterize the "coverage" (or lack thereof)
01:35.10yukonbobah
01:37.58yukonbobso, with a complex composite object, one could "dig in" to find a certain object and see how much is exposed "to the world", depending on the view.
01:40.04brlcadyeah, something like that
01:40.44brlcadeven for something simple like a person's face, you could talk about what % of their face is taken up by their eyes or nose or ears, etc
01:41.16brlcadit's pretty simple, it just reports the values for whatever objects -- drop-in replacement for rt
01:41.20yukonbobright -- so the object doesn't have to be "buried" by other objects... just identifiable.
01:42.13brlcadthe tool could be further improved, right now the "presented" area as it's listed isn't quite what one usually wants as it'll count how many surfaces you go through
01:42.45brlcadbut exposure is the more useful one .. what projected surface area is there for all fo the given exposed objects
01:42.59``Erikheh
01:43.00yukonbobcould you calculate, for example, how much sunshine would hit the side of a house with the sun at a certain spot, and a tree in the way?
01:43.44``Erik*wave*
01:44.26brlcadyukonbob: yeah, definitely
01:44.45yukonbobbrlcad: cool -- I'm gonna finish typing a report and play ;)
01:45.16brlcador (and sort of like what i'm doing right now) how that % coverage of the trees changes as the sun progresses across the sky during the day
01:45.36yukonbobsure -- script it, take values, look for curve...
01:45.43brlcadscript that to a table of values for various elevations and you have a nifty coverage curve
01:49.28yukonbobis this kind of analysis typical w/ professional CAD (ie: solidworks, Pro/E) (am I wrong to be lumping SW w/ Pro/E?)
01:50.57louipcI don't think it's wrong. I've never used Pro/E though heh
01:56.06louipcyeap everyone uses it
01:56.35louipcit doesn't do 2d drawings all that well though :P
01:56.56yukonbobbut then, neither does brl-cad ;)
02:02.01brlcadit's not wrong, we're in the solid modeling CAD domain, which is solidworks, unigraphics, pro/e, catia
02:02.33brlcadwe just don't do the drafting side really well (which they wander into a lot more, and for which autocad is king)
03:21.48brlcadreport?
03:22.33yukonbobseperate work...
03:23.57yukonbobbrlcad: can I just "rtarea mydb.g myobj" and get something interesting back? -- I've got some info, but now it appears to be wait()ing.
03:26.11brlcadyeah
03:26.14brlcadwhat version are you on?
03:26.26brlcadthere's an SMP bug in an older version
03:26.44brlcadcauses it to hang, later fixed
03:26.54yukonbobstill 7.8.x
03:27.02brlcadoh yeah, that one has issues
03:27.24brlcaddoesn't matter ;)
03:27.32yukonbobfeh
03:27.53brlcadyou could fix it in code for 7.8.0, but there's a semaphore condition that causes a deadlock
03:28.54brlcad7.10 is so much better in many under-the-hood ways
04:07.25IriX64brlcad: can't be done im on cyggy remeber
04:08.11brlcadcyggy isn't a crutch
04:08.18brlcadit's just a matter of figuring out the compile
04:08.43brlcadlemme know if you change your mind on the access
04:08.49IriX64sure
05:13.36IriX64how do i work ssh ive never used it
05:13.41IriX64have it tho
05:17.35brlcadinstall sshd, run it, open up port 22 on your firewall/router, create an account for the user you want to allow in, let them know the username password and IP address
05:18.11brlcadthere's got to be several guides or tutorials up on-line somewhere for doing this specifically in cygwin
05:18.27IriX64thanks ill look around
05:18.30brlcadotherwise, I imagine it's the same as creating any new user account, and just running the binary
05:18.43IriX64right
05:19.13brlcadi've had others provide remote cygwin account access in the past to debug stuff, but I didn't ask what they did to set it up
05:19.45brlcadhe controls his router/firewall settings last I noticed .. at least enough for him to run a public web server off it .. :)
05:20.00yukonbobthere you go -- no problems ;)
05:20.04brlcadi think he has pictures of havoc to prove it ;)
05:20.16yukonboblol
05:58.48*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-111-40.dclient.hispeed.ch)
06:32.05brlcadwoo hoo, all done
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08:59.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl:
08:59.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix the .mgedrc saving. this was actually an 8.5 issue -- [font names] is no
08:59.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: longer empty. Tk now provides five fonts by default (TkCaptionFont
08:59.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: TkTooltipFont TkHeadingFont TkTextFont TkDefaultFont) which was causing mged to
08:59.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: not initialize its own fonts (and later causing the tclscript error about the
08:59.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: font variable not being set). actually check for one of our fonts via
08:59.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: mged_default(text_font)
08:59.47brlcadZ80-Boy: that should fix the problem with the create/update .mgedrc menu option
09:00.06Z80-Boybrlcad: cool!
09:13.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (helplib.tcl mged/openw.tcl mged/text.tcl): merge from head, tab completion and .mgedrc fix
09:15.36Z80-Boybrlcad: do you already have an idea what's causing the arbn mirroring problem?
09:15.47Z80-BoyMaybe the cause is the same as what causes the arbn to be incorrectly shaded
09:16.17brlcadi've not gotten to that one yet
09:16.41brlcadbut not very likely at all -- mirroring is a self-contained function implemented per primitive
09:16.53Z80-Boyit's cool that you fix so fast, Samba needed 2 years for some of my bugreports.
09:17.19brlcadprobably just a bug in that primitive's mirroring
09:18.12Z80-BoyBut mirroring is not any special operation, it's just applying a matrix isn't it?
09:18.23brlcadthis is actually a bit slower than the cad team has historically operated, though we still do okay from time to time for short periods of time
09:18.28brlcadno it's not
09:18.48Z80-BoyDoes it check if a matrix is the special case - mirroring?
09:19.01brlcadit gets down to fundamental operations, like how you saw that for ray-tracing we perform what you called "direct calculations"
09:19.28Z80-Boycause it seemed to happen also with a mere translation matrix
09:19.47Z80-Boylooked like any matrix applied on this particular arbn screwed it up significantly
09:19.54brlcadit's different for every primitive, some have a transformation matrix, but some (most) don't (as they really don't need it, you just flip a sign on a vector or similar operation)
09:20.03Z80-Boylike the directions of the facets seems to be still OK, but they were shifted
09:20.31Z80-BoyHere I did mirroring by typing a matrix into red
09:20.34brlcadit could be something more fundamental to the arbn, but still specific to it
09:20.45brlcadahh
09:20.48brlcadyou didn't run mirror?
09:20.51Z80-Boythat looks like the constants are wrong, doesn't?
09:21.00Z80-BoyNo. I don't even know there's a special "mirror" function
09:21.07Z80-BoyI type everything into the red
09:21.14brlcadsee if mirror works
09:21.17brlcadjust curious
09:21.57brlcadthat's good to know/annotate actually, as that would be a general unpushed matrix transform on an arbn
09:22.20Z80-Boyis it push/pop like with a stack?
09:22.50brlcadnot really
09:23.06brlcaddepends how you want to think about it, but it's matrices on nodes of the dag
09:23.19Z80-Boyunpushed matrix is a matrix that resides with the combination rather than with the solid?
09:23.34brlcadyou can push the matrix down to the leaf nodes (the primitives) or leave them higher up
09:23.37brlcadright
09:23.49Z80-Boyhow do you push them?
09:23.54brlcadthe push command
09:24.05brlcador the xpush command if you have multiple references
09:24.06Z80-Boyaha
09:24.43Z80-BoyNo I don't use that
09:25.19Z80-Boyarbns are actually quite useful
09:25.26Z80-BoyYou can make a dodecahedron and icosahedron with arbn right?
09:26.07brlcadsure
09:26.23Z80-Boybtw the display of spheres is annoying - couldn't it display a circle as outline of the sphere?
09:26.33Z80-BoyNow it display some kind of kid's playground attraction
09:26.35brlcadexceptionally compact for some of the shapes it can represent
09:26.57Z80-Boyor a potatoid if you generata a lot of randomly placed planes?
09:27.22Z80-BoyI also found that the command to make a lot of copies, I don't remember, shows only the first two
09:27.30Z80-BoyFOr example I make a cube, then tell it to make a row of 10 cubes
09:27.36Z80-BoyOnly 2 cubes are displayed
09:27.49Z80-Boythen I need to actually redisplay (B again?) to show them
09:28.05Z80-BoyAnd also rt renders the last cube to be cut off
09:28.17brlcadclone command
09:28.18Z80-BoyI think you already said that it's because of Z clipping or something like that
09:28.22Z80-Boyyes clone was that
09:28.31brlcadare you up to date, clone was recently "completed" for beta-testing
09:28.37brlcad(like two days ago)
09:28.40Z80-Boyoh cool
09:28.45Z80-BoyNo that was much more before
09:29.17brlcadah, it was incomplete before -- it used to blather a big ol' warning
09:29.36brlcadbut I vaguely recall erik taking that out as he started gettting the transforms to work
09:29.39Z80-Boyclone is mega cool
09:30.21brlcadclone is one of the most powerful commands available
09:31.19brlcadaccording to the modelers that have used it in the past, it's a feature that beats out the commercial packages by quite a bit
09:31.45Z80-Boylollie lol :)
09:31.50brlcadoriginally implemented by this small company called GSI that did some really impressive models back in the early 90's
09:32.32brlcadthey made a bunch of brl-cad mods, one of them was clone -- but implemented for our old API, so it's taken a long while to update it to our newest API so it could be integrated
09:33.19brlcadcheck out the pix-g tool in the src/proc-db directory ;)
09:34.00Z80-Boypix2g?
09:34.13brlcader, yeah, pix2g
09:34.27Z80-Boywhat does it do?
09:36.23brlcadalmost exactly what you said.. takes an image and generates a brl-cad model of it
09:36.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/pix2g.c: take the blame
09:36.41brlcadby creating a bunch of spheres in a plane, one for each pixel
09:36.49brlcadcolored to the pixel value color
09:36.52Z80-Boywow
09:37.18brlcadit was just for kicks
09:37.47Z80-Boya million spheres, does mged choke?
09:37.48brlcadmost of the proc-db tools are just instructional or passive tests, safe for a few that have some common use
09:38.20brlcadit did provoke a lot of issues in mged that I had to fix
09:38.31Z80-Boy;-)
09:38.40brlcadand you can still blow the stack, I forget what the practical limit is
09:38.43Z80-Boywhere is the code to draw a sphere on screen?
09:39.10brlcadbut no, it should actually not choke mged  (though you might need a large stack size)
09:39.11Z80-Boysrc/mged?
09:39.19brlcadthe wireframe?
09:39.25Z80-Boydraw multipane slowly?
09:39.30brlcadevery primitive is almost entirely self-describing
09:39.56brlcadin just one file -- src/librt/g_PRIMITIVE.C
09:40.48brlcadthe *_plot() function does the wireframe
09:41.03Z80-BoyELL versions of the plot and tess functions are used
09:41.07brlcadlibrt is the geometry engine
09:41.09brlcadyep
09:41.20brlcadsph are ell
09:41.42brlcadit's just an optimized specialization for performance and user convenience
09:42.02Z80-BoyOh RT_ADD_VLIST
09:42.28brlcadthat's another one of GSI's mods that I'll probably work on merging next
09:42.43Z80-Boywhat mod?
09:42.58brlcadthey had high and low commands to display crisp wireframes
09:43.11brlcadinstead of using N segments, it displays a smooth curve
09:43.16Z80-Boycool!
09:43.33brlcaddoesn't do the sillouette that you're talking about, but it's definitely a nice addition
09:43.35Z80-Boycause with this it's often impossible to see if a sphere touches something or if it's misaligned
09:43.46Z80-Boythat should help too
09:43.54brlcad(it intentionally doesn't draw the sillouette, but would be interesting to try it (again))
09:44.09Z80-Boywhat's bad on silhoutette?
09:44.17brlcadthey had another routine to snap spheres to surfaces ;)
09:46.21brlcadit's not that it's bad, but it'd need to be on all the curved surfaces to be consistent and that gets rather tricky for several of the primitives
09:47.05brlcadfinding the projection of the sillouette of a torus for example, a lil tricksy
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09:51.42Z80-BoyI guess "toroid" is a typo of "tyroid", like have a shape of tyre
09:52.04brlcadhuh?
09:52.08brlcadthat's not a typo :)
09:52.20brlcada toroidal surface
09:52.40brlcadah
09:53.00brlcadhumor, my brain isn't firing on all pistons at the moment, been up all night
10:00.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: partial merge from head for the xno fix
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14:05.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/ (76 files in 15 dirs): more merging from HEAD. bring in build system tweakage updates that should fix some library symbol problems from croping up post-release.
14:08.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (14 files): merge from head, make linger the default framebuffer action instead of transient for all windowing framebuffer interfaces.
14:13.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: separate out the 7.11 section so the STABLE branch can be kept in sync more easily
14:16.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: merged from head was lingering framebuffer windows, red command, and .mgedrc editor setting
14:17.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new mged 'clone' object copy command
14:19.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oop, don't forget the lil ol 'tracker' command that was done early on; all to be announced for 7.12
14:21.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: clone and tracker are pretty much done, need some tender loving care and testing
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15:46.19yukonbob_.
17:03.49brlcadhappy friday!
17:13.17``Erikw00t
17:14.07``Erikhave we gotten the green light for a release yet?
17:24.28brlcadnope
17:49.34poolioyay weekend :)
17:49.42pooliowhat's all this STABLE CIA spam I see?
17:49.55poolioAnd how many months late are you guys? :P
17:54.16``ErikO.o
18:07.33``ErikCatapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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18:14.20brlcadpoolio: just one
18:16.59poolioheh, not too bad.
18:17.14pooliobrlcad: I'm thinking about starting up coding again. Not having a programming class is really bugging me.
19:37.24``Erikheh, cvs -z3 update -ACPdRrt
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22:36.58yukonbobdum de dum dum
22:38.23thing0morning yall
22:38.27thing0hey yukonbob
22:38.28thing0;)
22:38.33yukonbobafternoon thing0 :)
22:38.39thing0hehe
22:38.48thing0it is 638am
22:39.02yukonbobWhere?
22:42.59thing0Perth
22:43.06thing0sorry so many windows
22:43.07thing0hehe
22:43.51yukonbobI guess that means my friend in Adelaide is starting his day now too...
22:44.38thing0he is two hours ahead
22:44.43thing0hehe
22:45.56yukonbobya --- but oh -- it's Saturday too...  ;)
22:46.13thing0hehe
22:46.31yukonbobhappy weekend, thing0 :)
22:46.51thing0it will be
22:47.07thing0i have to get my legs better
22:47.15thing0hurt them a bit while I was away
22:47.25thing0noticed on Tuesday after sitting down for ages
22:50.21thing0hehe
22:50.23thing0have fun
22:50.40thing0i am deciding what new language to learn (re-learn)
22:50.41yukonbobI'll be having fun once it's done...
22:50.47thing0i am thinking of python again
22:50.48thing0hehe
22:51.01yukonboblua
22:51.20thing0lua?
22:51.31yukonboblittle embeddable scripting lang
22:51.43thing0i was thinking that
22:51.49thing0lua did look familar
22:56.03thing0yukonbob: i am after a language that is good for data parsing
22:56.16yukonbobtcl?
22:56.17thing0preferably can use windows hooks aswell
23:06.24``Erikweekend? I'll drink to that
23:06.52``Erikum, the bezier widget shtuff can't wrk with tk8.4
23:07.22``Erikthing: scheme. or lithp. It'll expand your mind in ways you didn't imagine possibile, it's the LSD of languages :D
23:08.56thing0lol
23:09.02thing0nice "Erik
23:09.06thing0thanks for that
23:09.10thing0I will look into them
IRC log for #brlcad on 20070929

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070929

00:01.32*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-93-120.dclient.hispeed.ch)
00:15.50yukonbob``Erik: brlcad said bezier was re-written -- are you saying it's _not_ compat. w/ 8.4 -- I asked specifically about it and sean said np.
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00:55.25thing0brb
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01:09.45``Erikyokon: then I'm wrong... *shrug* I dunno shit about tk :D
01:15.44thing0lol
01:38.04yukonbob``Erik: :)
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03:31.51yukonbobhrmm
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08:21.09thing0hey yall
08:21.19Z80-Boyhi
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13:09.54*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || for ken: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help%3ATemplates#Using_parameters_in_templates
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18:25.35callmemrpurposehello?
18:26.29callmemrpurposeanyone there?
18:30.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_arbn.c:
18:30.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: When an arbn is raytraced, the surface normal reported is whatever was provided
18:30.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: by the arbn creator, even if it is not a unit vector. This produces a scaling
18:30.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: effect on shading. The prep routine now unitizes the normal vector. This fixes
18:30.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: bug #1800161.
18:31.47callmemrpurposeis this an auto cad room?
18:31.57callmemrpurposeI have a question
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18:33.21callmemrpurposesay you are given the number .50x.25 that represents something to do with the angle ofa line. How exactly would you write this in cad?
18:33.37callmemrpurposebeginner here
18:41.10Z80-Boylocals only. split.
18:41.22Z80-BoyNo, just joking. What does the 0.5 and 0.25 mean?
18:41.38Z80-BoyIs it a line whose direction is given by a vector (0.5, 0.25)?
18:52.17callmemrpurposeI dont know, there is an "X" there also and I have no idea
18:53.32callmemrpurposeI think it is a line whose direction is given by that.
18:54.19callmemrpurposeLets say it is. How, if I already have a starting point, would I enter that vector in cad?
19:09.20Z80-BoyHmm I never put a vector into BRL-CAD
19:09.25Z80-BoyBut I know how to put a plane there
19:09.37Z80-Boyor more precisely a body made from planes
19:09.56yukonbobcallmemrpurpose: it's likely implementation dependant -- in brl-cad to make a cylinder, one indicates a vertex, then the vectors for the endpoint; those are in three dimensions, though, not 2.
19:10.29yukonbobin mycyl rcc 0 0 0 0.5 0.25 0 0.1
19:10.40Z80-Boycallmemrpurpose: yeah, you could make a thin cylinder instead of vector
19:10.49yukonbobwhere the first set of "0 0 0" == startpoint
19:11.02yukonbob"0.5 0.25 0" == vectors
19:11.13yukonboband last "0.1" == radius of cylinder.
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19:12.22yukonbobregarding autocad and brlcad, though, you'd arguably have a bigger list of differences than similarities.
19:14.17yukonbobZ80-Boy: are you involved with ronja?
19:14.25Z80-Boyyukonbob: yes
19:14.57yukonbobnice -- very cool drawings; are those yours?
19:16.18Z80-Boyyukonbob: yes
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21:49.09IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/blding391.png  <--- no more havoc yukonbob ;)
21:49.38IriX64err /maruo.dulisse2
21:49.42IriX64err
21:49.45IriX64mario
21:57.06IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/doingit.png <-- so how do i use it :)
22:03.17yukonbob<PROTECTED>
22:03.39IriX64heh im a losy gemoetry artist
22:03.45IriX64lousy too
22:04.31yukonbobyou can do a table, though -- top, legs, wheels on bottoms of legs.
22:04.53IriX64ill think about it :)
22:05.08IriX64dinners here ill be back
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20070930

IRC log for #brlcad on 20070930

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01:20.33brlcadyukonbob: undoutedly (re: bigger list of differences than similarities)
01:20.40brlcadyay for sake and sushi!
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02:11.30IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/editmode.png
02:17.54yukonbobmmmm...sushi
02:23.07IriX64actually it was pizza :)
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12:15.05MinuteElectronbrlcad: How is progress on the website and LDAP going - is there anything that needs doing that I can do?
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13:15.29Z80-BoyWhy does a model of head render very quickly and the same just cut in half by a rpp renders extremely slowly?
13:17.19Z80-Boywhat makes it faster, cutting things apart using the + operation or - operation?
13:17.49Z80-Boy- yields bigger bounding boxes doesn't?
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16:51.18yukonbobbrlcad: when you head online today, I've got a few q's re: auto* (ie: conf,make) and the config.
18:03.09*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-75-28.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:22.01Z80-BoyI was able to render one Ronja video clip flawless now thanks to the change to my script
19:22.08Z80-BoyNow when I know where the flickering comes from
19:22.17yukonbob?where does it come from
19:22.52Z80-Boyfrom a bug in the restart code that happens only when gamma is specified.
19:23.23yukonbobah -- that change was made in the brlcad code yesterday, no?
19:23.35Z80-BoyI don't know
19:23.44Z80-BoyI know they are going to fix it about now
19:24.28yukonbobso in your script you just skip the gamma?
19:25.07Z80-Boyno I make sure partial render is not attempted to be continued
19:25.28yukonbobheh -- fix the partial render by not rendering partials ;)
19:25.39Z80-Boyit is a workaround
19:25.53yukonbobindeed.
19:25.57Z80-BoyWell also a fix because the partial feature sucks a bit too
19:26.13Z80-BoyAnd it speeds things up a bit by not scanning through the already done work
19:26.18Z80-Boyit goes right down to the job :)
19:27.02Z80-Boywell if you render pix file and break it in the middle
19:27.12Z80-Boywhen you try to render it again it continues where it stopped before
19:27.40yukonboboh -- it automagically senses this and tries to save some work... this is built into rt?
19:29.10yukonbobmy build is continuing -- didn't expect things to build so well...
19:29.47yukonbobheh -- spoke to soon
19:45.21Z80-BoyIs there a description how "transparency", "mirror reflectance", "specular reflectivity" and "diffuse reflectivity" are exactly defined?
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071001

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071001

00:41.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: jra noticed that rt options -g and -G no longer work due to change in default aspect from 1 to 0.
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03:12.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: subst BLT and TKIMG so they can be used
03:15.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c:
03:15.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: fugly modification to permit running from finding uninstalled source directory
03:15.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: resources (e.g. tclscripts). searches for this particular file for finding
03:15.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: whether we're in a recognizable source directory. only search four levels deep
03:15.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: (should be enough for archer/mged in most of the hierarchy).
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03:34.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (Makefile.am src/Makefile.am): don't need/want bltUnitMain as that's for bltsh
03:49.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (Makefile.am main.c): preinit blt. only used by archer and unfortunately the lib seems to be a dead/abandoned project atm, but since we use it, preinit helps.
03:49.47yukonbobbrlcad: what's the latest branch 7.10.3, or 7.10.4
03:49.48yukonbob?
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04:55.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/plugins/Wizards/tankwizardIA.tcl: look a little harder -- including looking in a source path for uninstalled resources
05:20.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tkimg isn't working right and seems to be a bit dated, need to reimport it at some point
05:34.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer:
05:34.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: variety of minor restructuring. use bu_brlcad_data more
05:34.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: intelligently/consistently relying on it also working with uninstalled builds.
05:34.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: disable the splash logo since tkimg isn't integrated correctly yet (still also
05:34.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: have a problem with blt too). get rid of the massive auto_path hack since
05:34.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: that's handled by libtclcad/bwish much more aggressively.
05:38.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: restructure to allow uninstalled source directory invocations, as well as not making failure to find/load plugins fatal.
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06:00.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: more robust checking using bu_brlcad_data searching
06:31.01yukonbobbrlcad: You on? Over. *squelch*
06:49.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: aiight, so tkimg does actually work .. probably still need to clean up how it's presently imported but it does work, so off the list
06:50.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: tkimg works if you load the .so
07:03.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: load tkimg and blt during initialization and report the error appropriately if the load fails.
07:07.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: comment on sharedlibextension
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07:38.43Z80-Boywoohoo, bad shading of arbn fixed!
07:54.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: need to only return successful if we find it, otherwise needs to return NULL
07:55.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bu_tcl.c: fail quietly with bu_brlcad_data and bu_brlcad_root instead of verbosely ... could later add a --verbose option if it's really needed in scripting-land.
07:57.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/Makefile.am: tclstub library is very much needed so that the module will dynamically load without unresolved symbols (e.g. as a dylib on mac os x)
08:09.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/ (Makefile.am src/Makefile.am): bltVecCmd only applies to version 7 of tcl, so don't even compile it to avoid symbol warnings
08:10.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: shouldn't need to be exact.. allow versions of the library that are not matching but potentially newer.
11:05.01Z80-BoyActually a hexagonal nut doesn't have a shape of sharp hexagon
11:05.06Z80-Boyrather the corners are "filed down"
11:05.23Z80-BoyBut is the "filed down" a sphere or a cone? And where is it defined?
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11:59.50``ErikI see tcl/tk 8.5b1 is now listed on freshmeat
12:01.14archivistZ80-Boy, a cone (machined at an angle)
12:01.59archivistZ80-Boy, I would look at a standards body doc for that
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12:52.48Z80-Boyarchivist: standards for $$$?
12:53.32archivistyes but I have old one, may have the angle 30deg iirc
13:00.01Z80-Boyand the diameter?
13:00.14Z80-BoyThe circle is a bit smaller than the smallest diameter of the hexagon
13:00.15archivistA quick look in an old book specs all but that part
13:00.42archivistI think as its decoration, its up to the machine setter
13:06.38Z80-BoyA pimpmobile is a relatively expensive vehicle that includes additional features designed to increase the comfort of the driver and passengers, that has been heavily customized in a garish, extravagant style to advertise the owner's purported wealth and importance.
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15:29.51brlcadyukonbob: pong, sorry .. was on, but not reading irc last night
15:30.34brlcadlatest branch is 7.11
15:30.52brlcad(which will be 7.12.0 of course)
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16:07.51Z80-Boybrlcad: what about adding some debug mode to rt where instead of colour shade, the time to calculate the pixel would be output?
16:15.29MinuteElectronbrlcad: :D
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16:53.42yukonbobq: is libtool configured in configure.ac?
16:55.55brlcadZ80-Boy: ooh, that'd be nifty
16:56.08brlcadkinda like that idea .. see how expensive various portions are relativley
16:56.39brlcadhmm, that wouldn't be a compilcated lighting mode at all actually
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18:31.06yukonbobany libtool experts who can spare a dime^Wminute? I need an include path added to what it's using when compiling, but don't know how/where to add -- -I doesn't seem to work...
18:32.30brlcadyukonbob: permanently or temp?
18:33.05brlcadperm would be configure.ac mod or Makefile.am mod -- temp, it can be added to the configure line or to make
18:33.30brlcade.g., make CPPFLAGS=-I/additional/path/to/search
18:33.45Z80-Boybrlcad: is it easy, to tap into the place where the shaded value is written in rt and substitute the difference between the current and last time, and update the last time?
18:34.08Z80-Boybrlcad: cause for example an optical head or console which contain screws render fast
18:34.13yukonbobI've set the CPPFLAGS, and it's generating libtool lines w/ the proper -I's, but those -I's don't actually seem to be recognized by libtool -- so I was wondering if it's got it's own config somewhere...
18:34.52Z80-Boybut if it's the cutaway view, it's suddenly very slow. I assume it's because some bolts are cut longitudinally right in half and that makes the decisions around the ray difficult
18:43.14brlcadZ80-Boy: you could hack that sort of book-keeping fairly easily, though then even the time to write out that new time will impact the results significantly (i/o bottleneck)
18:44.08brlcadthere's also a slew of debugging already built-in that you could enable and search, though all fairly low-level
18:45.06brlcadyukonbob: no it doesn't have it's own config but does have some logic behind how it does what it does
18:45.31brlcadyou can repeat a build line and remove the --silent flag to see exactly the gcc line it uses
18:45.51typobrlcad: GCC produces horribly crap code sometimes
18:46.05typobrlcad: if you use unsigned long long - then it's like if they ignored the peephole optimization
18:47.28brlcadthere's hardly any long long's in the code since that rarely ever worked on pre c89 compilers
18:49.17typo;-)
18:49.22typoHave you heard about PCC?
18:53.55yukonbobfeh.
18:59.53yukonbobhttp://www.pastebin.ca/722072
19:04.17yukonbobthis ---^ is the errors from my build -- libtool isn't doing what I want... :P
19:05.06yukonbob(includes original error, generated gcc incantation, and proper (manually constructed) gcc incantation I want...
19:05.10yukonbob)
19:34.34brlcadtypo: yes, I've heard of it, but not played with it yet
19:34.58brlcadthere's a move in the bsd communities to replace gcc with it down the road if it can get up to snuff because of it's licensing
19:35.40brlcadyukonbob: I get an invalid id on that pastebin
19:38.35yukonbobbrlcad: 1 sec... repasting
19:42.52yukonbobhttp://www.pastebin.ca/722133
19:45.47MinuteElectronbrlcad: :)
19:51.17yukonbobmy libtool == 1.5.24, btw
20:01.38brlcadyukonbob: at a glance, you're missing the X11 header paths ;)
20:01.52brlcadyour X11 headers are really in /usr/pkg/include/X11 ?
20:02.22brlcadthat's a rather unconventional place to put them...  :)
20:02.28brlcadthat said, the problem is undoubtedly the space
20:02.33brlcadthere's no space after the -I
20:02.46brlcadlibtool is probably dropping the directory or the -I
20:02.54yukonbobthat is the path -- I'm usring xorg-modular from pkgsrc -- it makes sense in the netbsd world ;)
20:03.09yukonbobI'll adjust the spacing and see what happens ;)
20:03.15brlcadmake CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include
20:03.38brlcadvery different from make CPPFLAGS="-I /usr/pkg/include"
20:04.00yukonbob...and you're saying I need "-I /usr/pkg/include"...
20:04.57yukonbob??except the _other_ includes don't use spaces --: -I., -I../../include -I/usr/include -- and those aren't mine... /me retries anyway....
20:05.33yukonbobstarting...
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20:18.00yukonbobsame thing...
20:25.34brlcadyou don't want the sapce
20:25.47brlcadhaving a space is a problem
20:25.56brlcadin your pastebin, you had a space
20:26.14brlcadnot saying that is _the_ problem, but it's potentially _a_ problem ;)
20:28.46brlcadhrm, k
20:29.18brlcadanother thing to try, if it is a libtool issue, try 1) make CFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include
20:29.30brlcad2) ./configure CPPFLAGS=-I/usr/pkg/include
20:29.37yukonbobgood idea... will try.
20:30.03brlcadjust to make sure it's not a flags issue with libtool overriding one
20:30.16brlcadotherwise the configure one really should work as that applies a global include
20:38.10yukonbobnote: I'm getting a "regex.h: present but cannot be compiled" warning, too. Say to report it, so here's a report ;)
20:38.27brlcadyeah, benign
20:53.15brlcadyukonbob: any luck?
20:53.36yukonbobnot yet... /me finds some anomolies, thought -- like why --silent is listed 2x:
20:53.41yukonbobLIBTOOL = $(SHELL) $(top_builddir)/libtool --silent
20:53.42yukonbobLIBTOOLFLAGS = --silent
20:54.13yukonbob(in Makefile for src/libdm)
20:54.27yukonbob(not that that's going to wreck the build...)
22:01.02brlcadyeah, having it twice is intentional
22:01.33brlcaddifferent versions of libtool need the flag differently
22:01.47brlcadso configure ends up adding to both
22:02.40brlcadif you add --enable-progress, it'll turn off the --silent flag
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23:43.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: prevent generating a crash report when we simply don't have any work to do or when the requested geometry doesn't exist. don't bomb, just quit.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071002

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071002

00:38.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: blt is actually already loaded as part of the preload in the main archer script, so don't need this load here
00:40.13CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltInit.c: the minimum version checks are bogus for the pre-release alpha distribution, it needs to check all the way down to the patch level
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00:42.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: additional try/catch checking for archer so that we can print better abort messages when things go horribly wrong
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06:04.04brlcadg'damn finally, archer now actually works on os x...
06:35.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer:
06:35.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: the mighty bob lieth not. blt_library really _does_ need to be set AFTER blt is
06:35.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: loaded. the variable is wiped out during Blt_Init() yet is subsequently
06:35.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: required/expected in the Tabnotebook. this is the final mod that actually makes
06:35.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: Archer work on Mac OS X (tested, and seemingly fully functional) and probably on
06:35.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: Linux and BSD too now.
06:37.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO:
06:37.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: archer is now functional, at least seems to be fully functional now on Mac OS X
06:37.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: with the slew of resource and library mods that were needed. archer runs both
06:37.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: installed an even uninstalled from a compiled source directory.
06:44.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: dupe
06:49.24yukonbobbrlcad: nice!
06:51.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
06:51.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: already deprecated since 7.0, consider the following files finally obsolete for
06:51.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: the next minor update: msr.h, rtstring.h, rtlist.h, shortvect.h, shortvect-pr.h;
06:51.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: the contents of those files moved into or were replace by functionality in the
06:51.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: bu.h header
06:54.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: there are a variety of install and post-install support scripts now, aside from being an overly vague/generic todo item
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07:35.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (TODO doc/deprecation.txt): move the deprecation items to their own file so that they can actually be preserved in a running log of API changes, including basic guidelines for how to go from deprecated to obsolete.
07:45.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: implement a lighting model for rt that visualizes how expensive each pixel is to compute via some heat graph.
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13:52.46L0CALZ_0NLYbrlcad: what about taking rtedge and in the black pixels and neighbouring ones raytrace it with higher resolution than in the remaining ones?
13:53.06L0CALZ_0NLYit should work fine on models without texture mapping
14:16.47yukonbob...on to tclcadAutoPath.c.
14:41.29``ErikO.o
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15:24.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/bench/run.sh:
15:24.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: Add another path for RT.
15:24.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: Search for 'moss.g' in $DB and cull (so if the .g's are in a different dir than $(top_srcdir)/db, the right path is used).
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16:19.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c: Disable image restart.
16:25.07MinuteElectronbrlcad: sorry to bug but a bit of info about the current website status would be nice.
17:03.10*** join/#brlcad frbrgeorge (n=george@GW.itcomm.ru)
17:03.48frbrgeorgehi there
17:05.38frbrgeorgeI've got a problem with autogen/configure BRL-CAD
17:07.10``ErikO.o
17:07.52*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
17:08.35frbrgeorgeusing -l<library> in LDFLAGS instead of LIBS in autogen.sh cause modern ld failed
17:10.03``Erikhum, where are you seeing that?
17:11.09frbrgeorgewe have --as-needed bu default in our distro
17:11.44frbrgeorge(I mean ld --as-needed)
17:12.19``Erikah, a debian or ubuntu?
17:12.46``Erikwith a broken libtool? heh
17:13.18frbrgeorgeso "cc conftest.c -lpng" works, but "cc -lpng conftest.c" doesn't
17:13.34frbrgeorgeno, ALT Linux ;)
17:14.12``Erikodd, so it's breaking at configure time? with the distributed configure script?
17:14.55``Erik<-- doens't have any -l stuff in any of his LDFLAGS vars, grepped it all
17:15.42``Erikmebbe if you could post the offending bit of config.log to, say, http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ ?
17:15.49frbrgeorgeno it just can't foind libpng, libx11 etc, but not breaks :)
17:19.27frbrgeorgewell, let me check my unhack first...
17:28.54frbrgeorge...it partly works
17:33.29frbrgeorgethere's nothing special to paste, but http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/pastebin.php?dl=d8910551
17:33.54*** join/#brlcad qazwsx (n=qazwsx@unaffiliated/adgj)
17:34.44qazwsxI've been playing with mged and I was wondefing if there are operationsin brlcad like the following: " here's a line segment; rotate it about this axis; get me a curved surface"; "here's a line segment; extrude it in this direction, get me a surface", ... "here is a line segment; here is a sphere, run the sphere through the line, get me the corresponding surface"
17:35.35``Erikand when you flip where the -lpng is on that compile line, it works?
17:36.01frbrgeorge``Erik: yep
17:36.05``Erikqaz: not really, it's a solid modeller... the last one can be done with a pipe or cylinder and sphere's unioned on the ends...
17:36.21qazwsx``Erik: any suggestion of anther tool?
17:37.18``Erikfrbrgeorge: that's a straight up AC_CHECK_LIB() ... I dunno what to tell you with that :/
17:37.34``Erikqazwsx: you mean like qcad or blender? O.o
17:38.20frbrgeorge``Erik: is autogen.sh                                                            15,1           Top
17:38.37frbrgeorge``Erik: (oops) is autogen.sh a generated file
17:38.38frbrgeorge?
17:38.43``Erikautogen.sh should just call autoreconf with some flags
17:39.01``Erikit's a script that brlcad found or wrote and has been tweaked a bit
17:39.17frbrgeorge``Erik: (oops twice:) I mean configure.ac, neturally
17:40.05``Erikerm, no? O.o
17:44.14frbrgeorge``Erik: so if configure.ac is written manually, one has to replace those LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS $LIBPNG" (etc.) clauses with LIBS="$LIBS $LIBPNG"
17:47.14``Erikahhhh, so you're catching it on the AC_TRY_RUN(), not the AC_CHECK_LIB() ?
17:50.08frbrgeorge``Erik: buth :(
17:50.36``Erikthere's nothing we cna do about the AC_CHECK_LIB(), that's before those variables get set
17:51.07frbrgeorge``Erik: no, AC_CHECK_LIB seems to work
17:51.53``Erik<-- testing a fix...
18:23.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: LIBS instead of LDFLAGS to hold library names (thanks to frbrgeorge for spotting this one)
18:25.46MinuteElectron]/w 32
18:33.03yukonbob+++HANGUP
18:34.26``Erikheh, you mean +++ATH0 ?
18:34.36``Erikhayes codes, pheer
18:35.31yukonbobatdt [erik's l33t 'puter]
18:36.22``Erikheh
18:36.29``Erikatpt !
18:36.30``ErikO.o
18:36.45``Erikpopopopop popopopop popoppopopopop
18:37.12yukonbobah pt..
18:37.15yukonbobdoesn know.
18:37.19yukonbob*does
18:38.18yukonbobthose should be attp, attd
18:38.26``Erikoh, atp or atdp
18:39.02yukonbobah right ... what is atpt?
18:39.09yukonbobatdp == dial pulse.
18:39.14``Erikme misrecalling and thinking atp
18:39.25yukonbobpheer indeed ;)
18:39.31``Erikit's been a long time
18:39.37``Erikpoke 53280,0
18:39.38``ErikO.o
18:39.40yukonbobtogether we'll be able to get a c64 online
18:39.43``Erikc64 badassedness
18:39.46yukonbobhahah
18:39.51yukonbob6510 baby..
18:40.10yukonbobonly  ml I know...
18:40.31``Erikthe coleco adam was a neat machine, but the c64 was better at games
18:41.03``Erik<-- has done too many assembly languages and monitor/mnem :/
18:41.53``Erikdambusters? at night?
18:42.02``Erikso pretty much an all black screen O.o heh
18:42.13yukonbobdambusters sounds right.
18:43.24``Erikall in past tense, obviously this person is no longer your friend after dumping one of those things on 'em ;) *duck*
18:43.44``Erikhum, dragons lair, buck rogers, ...
18:43.52yukonbobheh -- person wasn't my friend, and writing a book on it was _their_ idea, not mine ;)
18:44.08``Erikhrm, what was the one with the helicoptor doing sorties to rescue people... with the three buildings...
18:44.40yukonbobfor coleco/adam, me prefered the donkey kong series
18:45.04yukonbobb.c. quest for tires
18:45.08yukonbobsmurfs
18:45.34``Erikheh, yeah
18:49.16``Erikheh, gorf
18:49.56``Erikzaxxon
18:50.40``Erikchoplifter !
18:50.48``Erikdamn, that was driving me nuts
18:50.52yukonbobthat rings a bell.
18:51.20``Erikit was significantly ported
19:19.12``Erikallllllrighty then, BSD4.3 on a vax 11/780
19:26.37brlcadscary
19:32.25yukonbobbrlcad: re: that X include yesterday -- was a pkgsrc peculiarity; nothing to do w/ the distribution or the flags.
19:33.05yukonbobnow I'm onto a tclcad issue (when I get some spare cycles)
19:43.43brlcadqazwsx's inquiry can actually be done for the second case as well -- that's just a sketch and an extrude; the surface of revolution and sweep are the ones we can't do, but linear extrudes are old news
19:45.35*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-71-35.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:46.28brlcadyukonbob: tclcad issue?
20:02.14*** join/#brlcad AchiestDragon (n=david@whipy.demon.co.uk)
20:02.33yukonbobbrlcad: http://www.pastebin.ca/723441
20:05.21brlcadick
20:05.35brlcadundoutedly the const modifier .. haven't seen that in a while
20:12.31brlcadiirc, there's a one-line fix to a tcl header that fixes the problem if it's the one i'm thinking of .. but what was that line...
20:38.46``Erikhrmmmmm, someone said something about long long a while ago and someone said we don't use 'em... that ain't true, tcl.h has 'em :(
20:39.27``Erikand that spew of errors almost looks like that regeh.h issue O.o
20:46.05``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1a1e1c3d
20:47.01yukonbob``Erik: =)
20:56.18``Erikdoh, that'll teach me to rely on a tmp dir, heh
22:08.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/scriptsort.c: declare yyin
22:09.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: disable scriptsort if we don't have a suitable lexer/parser since it needs a lexer (fixes build on mjm)
22:11.01brlcad``Erik: awesome
22:11.25brlcadgetting the build to work will probably be a heck of a lot easier with --enable-only-benchmark
22:12.17brlcadhopefully you have an up-to-date gcc on there though.. I'd had to revert back to patches that're needed for old 4.3 compiler to work
22:23.46``Erikheh, no, it's the cc that comes with bsd, all encumbered... :/
22:24.09``ErikI was thinking about checking out an old old old version from the vgr era
22:24.37``Erikbut I'll have to talk to kermit to figure out exactly what kinda hw is involved... I'm told the machine was bought with a single processor and field upgraded to dual at some point
22:46.00brlcadyou know where the sources are right?
22:47.38brlcad/c/BRL-CAD/OLD on cad, you can get 3.0 or 4.0 from there .. 4.5 or 5.0 is probably the last version to be tested on vgr before it was decommissioned
22:53.30``ErikI was gonna just cvs 'em out
22:54.02``Erikpulling source from '84 has been... edjimucational :) far more readable I think
22:55.29brlcadthere was a lot less of it
22:55.52``Erikyes, less files, and they're much simpler and shorter
22:55.54brlcadtwo decades of feature creep and enhancing
22:56.02``Erikraytrace.h was especially useful :)
22:56.38brlcadthat was a fun exercise, finding all of those old versions and tagging them
22:56.56brlcadI didn't try to compile the really old ones, just tagged for reference
22:57.01``Erikheh
22:57.03brlcadsince some files had moved/renamed
22:57.13``Erikyeah, and early on, ther'es not even a build system
22:57.14brlcadand would have been mostly futile/incompatible
22:57.22brlcadyeah
22:57.29``Erikand some of the tagged ones don't even have all the headers referenced in the code
22:57.38brlcadfor a while, mike used to say he'd just cat all the files together and pipe it to the compiler
22:58.01``Erikheh, I suppose that's one way... provided your headers are correctly gaurded
22:58.32brlcadproperly guarded and/or only included once
22:59.10``Erikincluded once in a C file, perhaps, but if two files include, say, stdio.h ... and it's not properly gaurded *shrug*
22:59.24``ErikI tried to compile some of the earlier stuff, but the systems have changed too much
22:59.34brlcadwelp.. got a really preliminary gross rough estimate vgr for mjm
22:59.35``ErikI couldn't even get an early jove to compile, and that had a makefile
22:59.45``Erikall cores lit up?
22:59.53``Erikdid it break 100k?
23:00.13brlcadI haven't done the distribution yet
23:00.32``Erikbe interesting to render a HUGE image and walk the cpu count to get a scalability set
23:00.35brlcadif it scaled perfectly linearly, and presuming the node I used was even representative ...
23:00.55brlcadwhich of course it won't
23:00.57brlcadbut if it did
23:00.59``Erikfor count in `jot 5000` ; do ./ rt ...
23:01.00``Erik:)
23:01.04brlcadthe vgr would be
23:01.08brlcad*drumroll*
23:01.14``Erikget on with it
23:01.15brlcad8897900
23:01.20``Erikhum
23:01.32``ErikI'd still like to see the scalability graph
23:01.40brlcadyep, that's next
23:01.51brlcadif it hits half that, I'll be amazed
23:01.58``Erikat that many cores? hell yeah
23:02.08``Erikum, it's a cluster, so that'd be remrt?
23:02.12brlcadthough I'm talking with msrc now to see if I can schedule interactive on the entire cluster at some point
23:02.44``Erikthey're upset that their resources aren't be used as much as they think they should
23:02.44brlcadotherwise, I'm going to give the batch system a try
23:03.07brlcadthe new hawk system is freaking sweet
23:03.19brlcadthat 'should' hit top 25 in the top500
23:03.29``Erikhawk?
23:03.43brlcadnew 9000 processor altix
23:03.55``Erikah... wow...
23:04.04brlcad18x512 iirc
23:04.08``Erikthose are still being purchased?
23:04.31``Erikdoes intels cc do decent vliw optimizations yet?
23:04.38``Erikgcc's output on those suck
23:04.39brlcadafaik, or purchased and being installed already from the sounds of it
23:05.28brlcadlast I tested icc vs gcc on altix, it kicked gcc's ass, but only with -gen_prof/-gen_use
23:05.42``Erikheh
23:05.52``Erikbrute force finding of optimization paths? O.o
23:05.58brlcadthat was a couple years ago, and in all fairness didn't try gcc's dual pass opt
23:06.18``Erikuhhh, what's that compiler company twingy was working with? uh, f something...
23:06.35brlcadyeah, eliminate all the branchs by at least making all the first guesses correct
23:06.48brlcaddunno
23:07.31``Erikthey had a compiler out and their claim was that if any compiler produced faster code, it was a bug... they had a funky script that went through every permutation of optimization flags to achieve that, if I understood correctly
23:07.51``Erikand, uh, adrt/tie came out faster using gcc than their stuff hehehhe
23:08.02brlcadand remrt isn't particularly awesome, though the amount of data being transferred is exceptionally minimal (just the ray out and pixel results back), so it really doesn't do too bad a job
23:08.17``Erikhm
23:08.24brlcadit's more a pita to set up as it was never designed for ease of use -- it was designed to get some jobs crunched out some year
23:08.32brlcadwhilest making movies
23:08.33``Erik*nod*
23:08.53``Erikso every transaction is a single ray/pixel handshake?
23:09.09``Erikbundling up sets would probably help a lot
23:09.16brlcadno, it has batching
23:09.20``Erikokie
23:09.34``Erikbut tcp/ip?
23:10.01``Erikat some point, the latency and stack overhead will overshadow the cost of just doing it :/
23:10.18``Erikoh, I turned off the 're-use pix data' in rt...
23:10.33``Erikafter my bsd/vax adventure, I might try wiring the bu_image_save() stuff into rt
23:10.43``Erikbut vax is more fun :D
23:11.57``Erikshoot,I forgot to email dwayne to let him know where a clone enabled install is
23:12.58``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:6129   hehhe one of those doesn't belong... or... does it?
23:13.48``Erik(that page is work safe, btu most of the site is not)
23:13.58brlcadi saw the reuse bit.. should rip the code out and annotate news
23:14.11brlcadmake sure there arent other outliers
23:14.25brlcadrelated to automatic restart
23:15.11``Erikyeah... I did the #if 0 trick... wanna be slow about removing possibly used functionality :/
23:16.17brlcadthat's not exactly slow .. as good as ripping it out to the user :)
23:16.24brlcadi mean, it's in cvs
23:16.34brlcadif it need to be reverted, it can be on a dime
23:17.28``Erikmeh *shrug*
23:18.21brlcadplus next release is minor ver #, so good time for it
23:18.54brlcadotherwise, I'd think we should just leave it on with a bu_log'd deprecation message to see if anyone notices
23:19.41``Erikheh
23:20.27``ErikI'm doing an update to gut it... personally, I'd probably go with a bu_log() and have it disabled... or mebbe a bu_bomb() to get someone actually talking to us
23:25.41``Erikheh
23:25.47``Erikdomo arigato mr roboto
23:26.30``Erikah, unicode math symbols
23:27.46starseekerThey're sort of the "Duke Nukem Forever" of the scientific software world...
23:32.42``Erikhehehe
23:32.52``Erikread a webcomic recently about halo three, uhhhhhhh
23:32.59``Eriklemme find it
23:33.14louipc"Take me, Robert!" sighed the forty-five year old construction worker as the tripe-fondling construction worker diddled her moist ear lobes and augured his swinish gusher into her dusty appendix scar.
23:34.35``Erikhttp://godmodeonline.com/d/20070924.html
23:34.46Twingypathscale
23:39.04``Erikyeahhhhh, them, amusing stuff :) compilers are fun O.o
23:39.40``Eriktwingy, didja get that fpga chunking along? the development softwawre was all lame and I think they wanted you to buy a real license to really use it...
23:40.41``Eriknot to mention the windowsyness of it all
23:53.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/Makefile.am: set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH and DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH so that we can find tcl/tk prior to installation
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071003

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071003

00:17.07``ErikSO, brlcad, why is it that when I do a default ./configure on a hackintop, it wants to build libpng?
00:53.21Twingy``Erik, the "nios" is the propietary collection of logic gates to create a minimalistic instruction set to become compatible with a linux kernel
00:54.14Twingyin reality an individual will use a cpld/fpga for designing a rather simplistic logic device such as a hybrid 74xx series device or venture off and write some vhld and hope it generates some reasonable gates for you
00:54.20``Erikhum, I have a memory of the windows tool itself being finicky
00:54.42Twingy*vhdl
00:55.27Twingythere is very little appeal to me in that regard at least with my current laundry list of things I do
03:13.46brlcad``Erik: because os x actually doesn't provide libpng
03:14.31brlcadthey have png support, but it's not libpng .. built-in to one of the foundation frameworks, they do their own thing (optimized version)
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13:28.54Z80-Boybrlcad: I wrote a program that can automatically generate further documentation for BRL-CAD: http://ronja.twibright.com/voynich.png
13:31.17brlcadheh
13:39.52``Erikok, the bottom looks like it's out of a cheat sheet or pdf or something... the top looks like docs generated from code... our code, anyways O:-)
13:42.45``Erikhum, path add for /sw and /opt/local went away
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16:14.15*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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17:11.01``Erikthe truely ignorant never feel ignorant
17:12.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: see if that helps the distcheck, declare and clean the build source file from the lexer
17:14.34``Erikdoh, beat me to it
17:14.44brlcadmuahaha
17:16.59``Eriky'know, I dunno if the 780 can handle ra92 drives
17:19.09``ErikI think once I get a useful image all set up, I might drop it on bz for anyone who wants to play... was kinda a bitch to set up
17:22.20*** part/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-35-171.dyn.iinet.net.au)
17:34.26brlcadyeah, that'd be cool
17:34.54``Erikprovided there aren't any license concerns, heh... I'm surprised that I foudn scripts to attempt to build it and stuff, but no binary image
17:35.15``Erikw00t, got an ra92 labeled, formatted and mounted
17:35.29brlcadi was going to give it a try, ran across 4.3 somewhere, but then had some problem with it
17:35.46brlcadnetbsd was just "easier" and I'd not gotten the pdp to load up
17:36.19``Erik4.3 proper is not public, due to copyright crap... I'm using the quasijarus variant ('missing' stuff has been re-written)
17:36.43``Erik<-- has had good results with the pdp1 and pdp11
17:37.31``Erikthis has been my starting point http://www.ba23.org/page0207.html
17:37.42``Erikbut the port files dont' work, the scripts don't quite work, ...
17:37.59brlcadgetting the vax 11/780 going will be the money shot
17:38.27``Erikvgr wasn't exactly out of the box, though... chuck was evil to it
17:38.32brlcadah, cool, i'd not seen that page
17:38.52``Erikhttp://www.retrocomputinggeek.com/index/retrowiki/Install4.3BSDQuasijarus/ has also helped me a little
17:38.56brlcadwell, that just means that theoretically you should get a sub-1 vgr :)
17:39.47``ErikI figure if I'm in 30%, it's going really well
17:40.13``Erikif kermit remembers roughly what he did, I could try faking it in the sim
17:42.23``Eriknah, hain't been there... part of the fun is muddling through it myself and hunting down the info :D the other part is asking people who used to use 'em and getting the local stories
17:42.58``Eriked knows a fair bit more than I think he's willing to admit to himself
17:45.39``Erikhum, our benchmark results were from 4.5?
17:50.42``Erikuhhhhh
18:03.00brlcadheh, called it "hurt"
18:03.28brlcadbasically all of rt combined into one file with a few things thrown out
18:03.43brlcadthough if you get through bu and rt then you're probably 90% done to start with
18:04.32brlcadthat tar.Z compressed is actually almost the same size
18:04.33brlcad# du -k cad4.3.tar.Z
18:04.33brlcad18652   cad4.3.tar.Z
18:04.33brlcad# du -k src/tmp
18:04.34brlcad18352   src/tmp
18:06.31``Erik<-- grabbing rel-4-5
18:07.01``Erikpix/moss.pix indicates that's what I WANT, and it isn't in the OLD/ dir
18:07.25brlcadah, right, good catch
18:07.31brlcadforgot it's in the log files
18:07.55brlcadyou can download 4.5 off various public websites (encrypted) too
18:08.02brlcadi think it's up on bz somewhere too
18:10.51brlcadhm, i guess not anymore on .bz
18:12.06brlcadooh, it'd be awesome to get simh listening on a port on .bz so you could log into it remotely =)
18:12.10``Erikcvs [update aborted]: cannot rename file CVS/Entries.Backup to CVS/Entries: No such file or directory
18:12.12``Erikawesome.
18:12.30``Erikwell, hrm, I don't think the networking works on the 780 yet
18:12.33``Eriknot all the way
18:13.02``Erikoddly enough, I'm using kermit to attach to a serial port on it, heh...
18:13.27brlcadwouldn't need networking, just hook it up into some tcpwrapper that invoked siimh
18:13.47``Erikso everyone gets their own image? simh isn't terribly efficient
18:13.54brlcadyeah, something like that :)
18:14.31``Erikemulating a pdp11 at historic speed requires a p3 or better
18:14.32brlcadanyone have any aversion to removing the MAINTAINERCLEAN directives?
18:14.44brlcadat least for the Makefile.in entries
18:15.48brlcadnot a big deal imho, but it's less to futz with in the files .. even though it's still totally dubious as to whether you truely "need" those in order to run ./configure and make per automake guidelines
18:16.14``Erikif 'distcheck' is happy with them gone... I don't care *shrug*
18:17.11brlcadyeah, I'd just added them way back when I felt a little more adament that the behavior was good for maintainer-clean
18:17.35brlcadbut in however many years over however many projects .. I just don't find myself ever using maintainer-clean
18:17.44brlcadhell, I use distclean more than that
18:20.13``Erik<-- doesn't think he's ever seriously used it
18:20.59``Erikhum, with throttling on, it's not chewing too much cpu
18:20.59*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-017-073.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:21.11``Erikstill a bit of memory... 15 megs for an 8m 780
18:21.55``Erikand bz isn't exactly a beasty machine these days
18:25.42brlcadyeah, I'm actually considering an upgrade as of just yesterday
18:26.10brlcadthere's a deal the isp is offering that'd give me a good chance to easily upgrade to the 6 kernel
18:26.32brlcadplus bigger disk, and going from celeron 2.4 to PIV 2.4
18:26.40brlcadwith more memory
18:26.47brlcadall for just a couple bucks extra
18:27.50``Erikinteresting, 4.5's tcl seems to be... scattered? or incomplete? O.o
18:27.57brlcadunless they agree to my request to keep my current bandwidth cap (which they're considering), I'd loose about 1MBit of my max  .. but then I've yet to use more than 20% of my pipe as it is
18:28.21brlcadboth
18:28.24brlcad4.5 didn't have tcl yet
18:28.32brlcadat least not yet exposed to the user
18:28.37brlcadit was the last pre-tcl version
18:28.57``Erik55 meg tarball O.o
18:29.45brlcad"shouldn't" even be in the build iirc .. but maybe .. it was started around 4.4 with some testing iirc
18:30.17``Erikfiles are scattered around
18:38.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tab/Makefile.am: bad resort on trailing slash
18:54.40MinuteElectronbrlcad: Do you have a minute?
19:13.35``Erikhurrr, I'm a retard
19:13.48``Erik"how do I get this tar file off of the tape to unpack it?" ...
19:16.46``Erikcompiling cake and cakeaux
19:27.57*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-81-225.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:34.58``Erikbehhh
19:36.20*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-81-225.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:36.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (106 files in 106 dirs): remove the MAINTAINERCLEAN rules, they're never really used regardless of the debate over whether the Makefile.in files belong there or not
19:37.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (55 files in 55 dirs): remove the MAINTAINERCLEAN rules, they're never really used regardless of the debate over whether the Makefile.in files belong there or not
19:37.40``Erikhuh
19:39.53``Erikinteresting, bsd4.3 doesn't seem to have an -x option to test, so sh/machinetype.sh was being pissy
19:51.36``Erikyuh oh
19:51.37``Erik"../librt/./polyno.h", line 35: syntax error
20:14.11brlcadnice
20:15.09brlcadMinuteElectron: not really, but will hopefully in a few minutes
20:15.42``Erikhum
20:15.50brlcadwow, polyno.h .. haven't seen that filename in ages
20:16.13``Erikthat's the wonderful error you get when you redefine a typedef on this cc
20:16.39brlcaddude, can't you get gcc working on it or something? :)
20:16.50``Erikheh
20:16.52brlcadI think the last builds were done with gcc anyways for the vax
20:17.14``Erikit's a pita to keep building tapes O.o
20:17.23brlcadiirc, had to cross-compile rt because of address limits during linking
21:11.42``Erikhurf, files have been moved in naughty ways, probably in RCS
21:16.47``Erik4.3 it is
21:49.46brlcadkermit said he might actually have 4.3 bsd binaries around somewhere
21:50.09brlcadyeah, I know for certain that files have moved in CVS/RCS since 4.3
22:05.45*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
23:07.39*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
23:13.11``Erikheh, iraytrace, vgr's spirit lives in the body of orthus, bsd4.3 on a vax 11/780, just compiled BRL-CAD 4.3 on it today O.o gonna see if I can get cvs head kinda working enough to run benchmarks after I tune it to run at 1 vgr :D
23:13.20``Erikhostname is vgr2.brl.mil O.o
23:13.56iraytraceseriously cool
23:14.36``Erikonce it's done, I'm thinking about putting the disk image and boot config on bz for anyone interested O.o brlcad wants a telnet port on bz for anyone to try out
23:15.40``Erik<-- running an ra81 as the primary drive, ra92 as the fun drive, and a ts11 tape drive, with a serial/modem console attached via kermit
23:15.51``Eriksimh ftw
23:15.58iraytraceSo what are you tuning to get the simulator to run at 1vgr?
23:16.12``Erikthere's a throttle setting where you can specify mips or kips
23:16.23iraytraceSweeeeet
23:16.41``ErikI don't *THINK* there's a way to get dual cpu on it, so instead of trying to actually get it right, I'm gonna fdge
23:16.44``Erikfudge
23:17.00iraytraceuh, the old VGR numbers were for a single cpu.
23:17.10iraytraceyou should be good to go
23:17.12``Erikbut I'll bug kermit to get some stuff right-ish I think... I'll call him up and ask him if he has an ra92 tub drive I can borrow :D
23:17.33``Erikcool, ed told me that the machine was modified to take a second cpu in its life.. and I'm under the impression that kermit was hotrodding it
23:18.06iraytraceAt one point it was dual cpu.  The reference benchmarks were run single cpu.
23:18.40iraytraceThe second cpu just allowed another *process* to run.  Remember, this pre-dates posix threads
23:19.55``Erikheh, the latest vgr sync was in december of '97 from what I read O.o
23:20.25``Erikbe interestin gto see where our off-by-on errors crept in O.o
23:21.14``Erikoh, the mjm dedication was recorded, there's an email addy where you can request a copy, but I left it at work
23:23.03iraytraceWhen you get a chance, shoot it to me.
23:23.13iraytraceHave you heard from LeeAnn?
23:23.19``Erikum
23:36.57iraytrace*you* can probably get away with it.
23:41.45``Erikhrm, irssi?
23:50.34iraytraceColloquy actually
23:51.51``Erikah
23:52.00``Erikprivmsg goes to a hidden window or something?
23:52.54iraytracedifferent "chat" section
23:53.11iraytraceum.  Different window.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071004

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071004

01:52.50*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
02:06.57yukonbob?what's btclsh for
02:07.59brlcadit's a tclsh that has the brl-cad extensions preloaded
02:08.53brlcade.g. run "bu_brlcad_data ." in btclsh
02:09.00brlcadit'll show you were the data path is
02:09.00yukonbobso that's why it's linked against libtclcad... is that the only way to get libtclcad functionality, or is it possible to load libtclcad into tclsh via package require?
02:09.30brlcadhm, I believe you could do a direct "load libtclcad.so"
02:09.47brlcadnot sure if it'd need some pkgIndex.tcl or other Init() function, though
02:09.50``Erikif a require could snarf up C code very easily, I'd imagine 'wish' would not be a standalone binary? *shrug*
02:10.28yukonbob"wish" is a convenience name... you can just as well run tclsh and package require tk.
02:10.44brlcadit auto-creates the top-level window too
02:10.44``Erikaight, *shrug* I'm not a tcl guy
02:10.57brlcadso you can just start packing
02:11.01yukonbobbrlcad: so will package require tk ;)
02:11.02``Erikheh
02:11.07brlcadit does?
02:11.29brlcadah, so it does
02:11.35brlcadlearn something new every day
02:11.43``Erikhum, heh,
02:11.43``Erik% package require tk
02:11.43``Erikcan't find package tk
02:11.46brlcadTk
02:11.46yukonbobTk
02:11.50``Erikokie
02:12.31``Erikit might be possible to eliminate btclsh (or make it a 2 line tcl program) then *shrug* :)
02:12.52brlcadsimh ftw!
02:13.07``Erikhrm?
02:13.13brlcadjust reading the backlog
02:13.20``Erik:D
02:13.27``Erikyeah, I wanna spin kermit up with a phone call
02:13.43yukonbobI'm stripping as much from the build as possible on my tcl/tk8.4 quest to use local libs... and it's currently puking on btclsh, but like ``Erik just said, it might be easily skipped...
02:15.09yukonbobdoes mged use btclsh?
02:15.13brlcadno
02:15.20``Erikmged wires straight to libtcl
02:15.32brlcadmged is its own interpreter
02:15.49``ErikTclInterp out the wazoo in src/mged/ :)
02:15.58brlcadrather, with an embedded tcl interpreter integrated with mged's own processing loop
02:16.05``Erikjust one? heh
02:16.13brlcadjust one..
02:16.27yukonbobso, might one be able to build the brl-cad suite w/o btclsh and still be reasonably functional?
02:16.34brlcadsure
02:16.43``Erikcompletely functional as far as I can tell
02:16.54yukonbobrock'n'roll...
02:16.59brlcadnot completely, stand-alone rtwizard uses it
02:17.07``Erikah, ok
02:17.20``Erikis there a reason rtwizard couldn't use, say, mged -c ?
02:17.26brlcadthe prep in the tclscripts dir will fail without it, so it'll rely on the existing precomputed results
02:18.09``Erik(and actually... getting back to the original issue... btclsh will link against system libtcl iirc)
02:18.13yukonbobare those script doing CAD-ish stuff, or only Tcl-ish stuff?
02:18.24``Eriksrc/btclsh/ is a pretty light directory
02:18.43``Eriker
02:18.46``Eriksrc/bwish
02:18.54yukonbobbut if I've already got Tcl installed, I've got tclsh, and could just 'load libtclcad' and get "btclsh".
02:19.05``ErikI mean, about a thousand lines of code for both btclsh and bwish
02:19.10yukonbob(if that in fact works...)
02:19.32brlcadyukonbob: rtwizard just does tclish stuff iirc
02:19.54brlcadi'm not *certain* you can just load libtclcad .. never tried it
02:20.11yukonbobbrlcad: never a better time than the present...
02:20.16brlcadbut in theory at least you should be able to, or at least come close to that after adding the hooks
02:20.20``Erikblaze a trail, yukon :D see if it's possible, explore it!
02:21.04brlcadi imagine it won't work outright simply because there's nothing that says what function(s) it needs to invoke, and how to get access to the functions the lib provides
02:21.34brlcadwhen mged uses it, it just calls the function in C-land, and it gets passed the already created interpreter
02:25.24brlcadwoo hoo, .bz's ISP agreed to let me keep my bandwidth at the same price .. so looks like I'll be doing the upgrade after all
02:25.59brlcad``Erik: any special setup requests/suggestions (w.r.t. freebsd)?  likely choose stable 6 otherwise
02:32.22``Erika modern 6 (6.2-stable) is a good place for an os to be
02:32.52``Erikmy request is not letting it go so outdated that updated ports fail :D and of course, I have 8 zillion ports I'd strongly recommend
02:33.13``Erikportmanager, portaudit, uh, uptimed, ... bash cuz I'm lame...
02:34.13``Erikbut, hey, it's your box :) if you want, I'll help where I can, but I aint' got no final say, yo
02:35.43``Erikawesome that they're grandfathering you in
02:36.23``Erikmight make it worth putting effort into putting up some fun simh with anonymous telnet (throttled, of course)
02:37.41brlcadit moved to 6 within just a month or two of getting installed
02:38.46brlcadotherwise, you've seen as much of the port upgrades as I have .. there were at least 6 full-port updates over the last two years
02:39.13brlcadand only that infrequent because they became harder and harder to do
02:39.35brlcadI think I'll pay the extra per month and upgrade the net link as well
02:46.03``Erik5.21 was more than 6mo before 6.0... like, 18 months
02:46.33brlcadi mean, it was the end of the stable line
02:46.42brlcadthen a month or two later, it swapped to 6
03:10.37``Erik5.3 and 5.4 were stables before 6.0 went stable
03:10.46``Erikand there's a 5.5 out, too
03:25.23yukonboblibtool: link: warning: library `/usr/pkgsrc/bch/brlcad/work/.buildlink/lib/tcl/itk3.3/libitk33.la' was moved.
03:25.42yukonbobmeans
03:25.42yukonbob... building mged...
03:26.10yukonbobI got similar when I was building bwish (which I've now just skipped), but I _do_ want mged...
03:51.41``Erik'was moved'? O.o
03:52.27yukonbobya -- it's weird -- ..and then I get some basic Xlib (I think) missing references -- might be a pkgsrc thing -- I just updated my Makefile to see what shakes out...
03:52.50yukonbobdo you know what it means? (/me guesses "no" based on your eyes O.o
03:52.52yukonbob)
03:52.59brlcadit probably really was moved, something pkgsrc is doing maybe (where it was compiled for one path, but finally put into another, then libs linked with it in the final location)
03:53.35yukonbobthe .la looks "normal" to me, though...
03:53.47yukonbobjust failed again... get ready for short flood:
03:53.50brlcadit means what I wrote in the parenthetical .. which would be either an unclean build, or it really was moved, or you're getting something to link against two different itk33 libs
03:53.54``Erikum
03:53.57``Erikpastebin.bzflag.bz
03:55.38yukonbobhttp://www.pastebin.ca/725142
03:57.54``Erikhrmmmm what os again? debian/ubuntu?
03:58.25yukonbobnetbsd
03:58.31``ErikO.o hrm
03:58.54brlcadit's missing -Xi
03:58.58brlcader, -lXi
03:59.10``Erikwhat lib is, say, XOpenDevice in there? pehaps Xi?
03:59.11``Erikheh
03:59.13``Erikbeat me to it
04:00.35brlcadthat should be fixed on head already
04:01.01brlcadassuming you really do have a usable Xi and that our test isn't flawed
04:01.11yukonbobwe'll find out ;)
04:01.38brlcadgrep X_LIBS Makefile
04:01.43brlcadwhat does it report?
04:02.14yukonbobis building ... 1 sec.
04:02.35brlcadTk functionality test also includes Tcl
04:02.48brlcadthe Tk lib test is an independent symbol search
04:02.58brlcadshouldn't need tcl for that
04:03.25brlcad(if you did, pretty much all the lib symbol tests would fail for more than a dozen libs)
04:09.07yukonbobthx. for help w/ all this folks -- I hope something good comes of it for both of us ;)
04:09.45yukonbobbrl-cad supermodel edition *Now Less Calories!!*
04:10.04yukonbobactually "supermodel" is a good name, in this case...
04:10.13yukonbob(tm)!
04:11.56yukonbobso, is archer X11 too, or just Win/Mac?
04:12.41louipcit's buggy in linux
04:13.05louipcwell buggy to the point I can't get anything other than a little grey box
04:13.12yukonbobwhere linux == linux/bsd/solaris/*nix -- or just linux?
04:13.35louipcI don't have those other *nix so i couldn't say
04:13.48louipcbut that would seem like a logical assumption
04:14.03yukonbobis tcl/tk, fltk, gtk, other?
04:14.33louipctcl/tk
04:15.14yukonbobidea is it's primarily WIMP interface, vs. mged's keyboarding?
04:15.46louipcI hope it has command line!
04:25.56yukonbob!yaY
04:53.15brlcadyukonbob: archer is pure tcl/tk
04:53.33yukonbobnice... what are the plans for mged?
04:53.47brlcadlouipc: I just fixed archer a couple days ago... it should work everywhere now if I got took care of all the loading issues
04:54.37brlcadarcher actually includes a half embedded and half-rewritten mged
04:55.06louipcoh sweet
04:55.16yukonbobwhere did the name "archer" come from?
04:55.16brlcadit was a prototype interface intended to maybe some day replace mged or at least show what's possible even via tcl/tk with a different style gui
04:55.45brlcadit was part of this joint (army, navy, air force) SBIR funded project called "Crossbow"
04:56.03brlcadarcher was one of the tools in the project, one of several similarly named tools
04:56.08yukonbobahh
04:56.29yukonbobarrow, target, robinhood, apple?
04:56.44brlcadthe project dealt with vulnerability/lethality calculations, so naming it with things that throw projectiles was quite appropriate
04:56.52louipcthe marines don't need cad eh?
04:57.10brlcadmarines don't do research :)
04:57.16yukonbobheh
04:58.14brlcadarcher still keeps a command console, with most of the core mged commands still available, and shows how things could work with various tabbed information panels, gui buttons, and more
04:58.27brlcadnavy uses brl-cad
04:59.43brlcadthey're just late to the V/L game, it took a catastrophic event like a ship bombing to get them thinking about paying more attention to their vulnerabilites
05:01.46louipcI'd have thought that would be the first thing you'd think of when building any type of military vehicle heh
05:02.41yukonboblouipc: are you a brl-cad dev?
05:03.06louipcnope just an interloper
05:03.13yukonbob:)
05:03.48brlcadlouipc: it was federally mandated that everyone *has* to think about it before vehicles go into use
05:04.01brlcadbut the level of that thought varies widely, as do the needs
05:04.20brlcadthe V/L characteristics of a ship vs. a plane vs. a tank are *massively* different
05:04.38brlcadi mean, if a plane is hit, it's pretty much a critical kill
05:04.59brlcadif a tank is hit, it very well might actually bounce off
05:05.21yukonbobis that a function of the plane/tank, or just their geometric properties, though?
05:05.46louipcboth I think
05:05.48yukonbobtank == thicker angled armour, plane == thin aluminum tubes or carbon fiber, etc.
05:05.50brlcaddepends on both, and varies heavily asset to asset
05:05.59brlcadas well as the threat
05:07.08louipclike the tail prop of a chopper is a critical yet delicate part. if that's taken out the whole thing comes down.. even if the rest is intact
05:07.41yukonbobwell, brlcad wouldn't know that, though, would it?
05:07.43brlcadeither way, the vast *majority* of all V/L analyses are used by a single code that directly hooks into BRL-CAD for geometric analyses answering questions like "what components are along this shotline", so the more V/L work going on, the more folks (in DoD) are using BRL-CAD (directly and indirectly)
05:08.18louipcbrlcad does the modelling...
05:08.56brlcadthe modeling, and the *geometric* analysis (which is almost entirely what drives the *V/L* analyses, which then add in their own algoritms)
05:09.34brlcadthey deal with the physics of penetrations, simulating interactions, velocities, energy, etc .. BRL-CAD answers all the questions about the geometry
05:10.33brlcadlike what material is the object, where is it physically, what regions is it comprised of, what mass/volume/moments/etc does it have, how thick is something from a given angle, what's along a shotline, etc
05:11.03brlcadyukonbob: cool, was there much backport changes?
05:11.23yukonbobmostly the build process... though I've only been running it ~30s
05:11.34brlcadno tcl/code changes?
05:11.39yukonbobnot yet.
05:12.00yukonbob... but if it's OK with you, I'd really appreciate 8.4 support, and can help w/ determining needs to that end...
05:12.45yukonbob(where support == consideration in future code for 8.4 compat)
05:13.27brlcadI could possibly motivate/convince a back-port to 8.4 to the folks that will care, but I'd need to know the exact steps/patching needed and test it myself first
05:16.04yukonbobbtw, 'load  ...libtclcad.so' yields "couldn't find procedure Tclcad_Init".
05:16.08louipcis tcl beta in brlcad now?
05:18.22brlcadah, cool -- figured they'd auto-search for some _Init() function
05:18.31brlcadno, beta's not in yet
05:18.49brlcadwanna add it? :)
05:19.32louipc:D
05:20.03louipcI'd love to but other things are grabbing my time
05:21.30yukonbobnow my rtarea works, presumably so will rtedge, among others ;)
05:23.03yukonbobwireframe in mged gfx window seems slower (compared to 7.8.x) -- anybody else notice this?
05:23.15yukonbob*slower rotation w/ x,y,z
05:25.56yukonbobfor arb*, does it matter what order the points are entered?
05:41.17brlcadyes, it does
05:41.33brlcadgfx may actually be slower if you compile optimized vs non-optimized
05:41.41brlcador with/without opengl
05:41.57brlcadotherwise, it's all in your head
05:42.19brlcadit reports a fps in the faceplate
05:42.32brlcad(on the misc options in the menu)
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13:59.28``Erikunthrottled....
13:59.28``ErikAbs     vgr2    2261.62 1051.17 809.07  771.05  1003.79 1179.34
13:59.29``Erik*vgr    vgr2    16.50   15.67   14.42   14.44   14.19   15.04  
14:32.41Z80-BoyNow the Ronja videos are recompiled without the flashes and uploaded to the Ronja page, woohoo :)
14:33.42archivistone for  ``Erik as a connesiur of amusing pics http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive8/2005-05-14_butttrumpet.html
14:51.33MaloeranArgh, please don't post stuff like that
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15:16.48``Erikheh
15:16.59``ErikI'll assume it's not work safe and will avoid opening it O.o
15:20.13``Eriksuch awesome hardware, with 45 minute renderings
15:30.31archivista motorcycle, a bare butt, a can of beans and a traffic cone
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15:33.18``Erikthat, um...
15:33.19``Erikuh...
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16:53.40Z80-Boybrlcad: basically all ronja models - including those with complicated screws - render fast
16:53.54Z80-Boyexcept for 2 models where a screw is cut apart, which render orders of magnitude slower
16:53.59Z80-BoyIsn't that suspicious?
16:54.11Z80-BoyEven when the screw actually occupies only tiny fraction of the picture
17:04.18``Erikhow is it cut?
17:04.43``Erikthe 'cut' primitive can make things really really really slow
17:05.27MinuteElectronbrlcad: I guess I wasn't here 'in a few minutes' lol.
17:05.27Z80-Boyit's a boolean operation
17:05.27Z80-Boywith a rpp
17:05.27Z80-Boyeither subtract or and, both slow
17:05.49``Erikhum, depending on how the tree is built, you might be doing way more weaves than you need to be
17:10.53``Erik(and brlcad probably wont' be here for several hours... he might even be too busy until mondayish)
17:11.15MinuteElectronscrewin @ me
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17:21.46yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/disp_error.png
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19:47.31``Eriknifty, looks like vgr was running around 345Kips
19:58.02dtidrow_workI forget - what does the benchmark program summary mean again?
20:02.40``Erikum, which part?
20:02.55``Erikthe vgr bit?
20:03.20dtidrow_work<PROTECTED>
20:03.23dtidrow_workarg
20:03.35``Erikoh, heh :D
20:03.49``Erikthe Abs line is second sof computation for each image, then the mean
20:03.53dtidrow_workthat stuff - let me get the recent one from my lappy
20:04.05``Erikthe *vgr line is how many vgr's worth of unf that is
20:04.19``Erikwhere vgr was a vax 11/780 running BSD 4.2/4.3
20:04.47dtidrow_workah
20:04.51dtidrow_workAbs  localhost.localdomain 1035035.81   467863.48       482449.25       374872.08       513705.77       540954.26   569146.77       Sat Jun 30 14:15:09 EDT 2007
20:04.51dtidrow_work*vgr localhost.localdomain 7554.45      6976.78 8604.40 7025.33 7267.02 36.49   6244.07
20:04.52``Erikvgr2 is a simulated 11/780 running 4.3BSD, I'm trying to tune the sim to give me the same results as the old hw
20:05.11dtidrow_workthat's the laptop benchmark
20:05.17``Erikyou should have a summary file that explains all the results
20:05.38dtidrow_workhmmm, the 'summay' file just had what I pasted
20:05.47``Erikthere should be a lot more in it O.o
20:06.10``Eriksorry, I'm wrong
20:06.53``Erikwhen ya ran 'make benchmark', it should've printed all that out...
20:06.58``Erikmebbe in your run- log?
20:09.08``Erikhere's what my run log for my desktop looks like... http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/mbef4b9d
20:22.51dtidrow_workah, looks like I clobbered the binaries to free up some disk space - and probably killed the log file along with it
20:23.05``Erik'make clean' will delete the .log and .pix files
20:25.21dtidrow_work``Erik: how many cpus are on the box for that pastebin link?
20:26.18``Erikum, 8 cores... two quad-core intel thingies
20:27.01dtidrow_workah
20:27.17``Erikit does like 27000 vgr's when optimized
20:27.27dtidrow_workw00t!
20:28.17dtidrow_workwonder what the quad-core AMD's are gonna do...
20:32.26``ErikI think my dual two-core 2.0ghz opteron gets around 11500ish?
20:34.56dtidrow_workso the first number in the '*vgr' line is how many vgr's your box compares to?
20:35.34``Erikno, um, well... only for moss.g
20:35.42``Erikthe last one is the average
20:35.48dtidrow_workah
20:36.32``Erikit's bench/run.sh if you wanna poke
20:39.20``Erik<-- has no clue why you only got 36 vgr's on sphflake O.o
21:23.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (90 files in 11 dirs): Upgrade to 1.2.21. Fixes several bugs introduced in 1.2.19, possible overflows, and has some code cleanup.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071005

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071005

01:42.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: include deprecation.txt in dist
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04:52.30brlcadthe baseline for sphereflake isn't normalized to the vax
04:53.00brlcadthat's part of why it's pretty exciting getting a baseline vgr of 1 again so that sphflake can be renormalized
04:55.37poolioSo is legacy code always going to be a part of BRL-CAD so you can establish a baseline vgr?
04:56.39yukonbobbrlcad: you see my report about the artifacts still there w/ the rotated pipe (using latest (few hours old) HEAD (7.10.3))
04:57.37brlcadpoolio: no, the code has already changed quite dramatically .. but the baseline can still be run -- just using the old sources and/or old binaries
04:57.47brlcadthe harder part is getting access to a vax :)
04:57.58brlcadyukonbob: yeah, I saw, but havne't looked at that
04:58.15brlcadi'm not exceptionally familiar with the pipe code .. that's more john's area
04:58.31yukonbobso long as it gets to where it needs to be...
04:58.35brlcadknee-jerk reaction is "don't do that" :)
04:59.24yukonbobheh -- I can shake the artifacts off w/ rot 0 1 0;rot 0 -1 0
05:00.37brlcaddtidrow_work: 'summary' just retains the latest performance summary with the first line being a "Ray Trace Figure of Merit" (RTFM) that sort of amounts to rays per second, and the second line being the linear metric comparison to the base (called vgr) which amounts to how many VAX 11/780's you're machine's worth computationally
05:00.42yukonbobso I'm running 7.10.3 -- is that the latest fully buildable version -- you mentioned 7.11 was branched, but it's really near the start of it's life isn't it (only a few files present)?
05:01.17brlcadyeah, 7.10.3 is the latest, 7.11 is what's on head now, but it's not changed wrt pipes
05:01.54brlcadyeah, you are
05:02.06yukonbobhave fun in California
05:02.14brlcadlooks like it's just a refresh of the display list needed
05:03.02brlcadi.e., it's not "really" shifted like that .. just displaying the wireframe wrong
05:03.30yukonbobin 7.8.3 at least, unloading/reloading the db preserved the bad display... was weird.
05:37.10CIA-4libirc: 03mm_202 * r238 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientCommands.cpp: Fixed the op()/deop() bug. sf.net bug 1807356.
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09:15.22Z80-Boybrlcad: looks like now something changed in brl-cad.
09:15.40Z80-Boybrlcad: because I did CVS update and now it renders the "poisonous" ronja_new better.
09:15.52Z80-BoyBefore the arbn was missing in the triangular plate
09:16.00Z80-BoyNow it's present but is bigger than should be
09:16.12Z80-BoyLooks like it has again something to do with unnormalized equation
09:16.38Z80-BoyBecause the one boundary plane that is placed too much out is the one that was entered as not normalized .
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10:12.57CIA-4libirc: 03mm_202 * r239 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Some minor clean and typo fixes.
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17:04.35brlcadhaving trouble _jack- ?
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17:11.08yukonbobyou in Cali now?
17:21.34brlcadnope
17:21.52brlcadi'm 70%, landed in Pheonix AZ ..
17:21.59brlcadand it looks like my flight to san jose is now delayed by at least an hour
17:23.36MaloeranNeat, are you going there on vacation?
17:25.12brlcadnah, google's sending me out for the summer of code summit
17:25.23MinuteElectrongoogle?
17:25.27brlcadyeah
17:25.33MinuteElectronneat
17:25.37MaloeranAh, interesting
17:26.29brlcadthey'll be a rep from about 70% of the projects that participated: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/
17:27.05MinuteElectronI can't wait until SoC 2008, maybe that time I will actually find out about it in time to participate in a project.
17:27.09brlcadthere are a few devs I know in AU that are coming in for the summit too, looking forward to it
17:27.16brlcad... though going to AU is way cooler ;)
17:27.40MinuteElectronindeed
17:28.14Maloeran:) I'll be going alone despites getting married in just 8 days, but I sure need the vacation and she's busy with her studies anyhow
17:28.31brlcaddo you have a big countdown clock?
17:28.36brlcadthe beginning of the end of your life ;)
17:29.08MaloeranEheh
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20:25.14jgayhi, i'm from the Free Software Foundation, and we are thinking of puting BRL-CAD on our urgent list of software to be developed. Could anyone field a few questions?
20:27.12MinuteElectronMost of the people who hang around here are in and out all the time. brlcad is your main man but a few others have experience too.
20:27.54jgayMinuteElectron, cool. My questions are simple, though. Mainly, I was just wondering how active the project is
20:28.38MinuteElectron``Erik: You here?
20:29.50jgayI mean, it seems like the best free software CAD program out there. And, it seems like the only one that is actively being developed. But, I'm not the best judge.
20:30.37jgayWe generally have success in finding new developers for projects, so, if there is any advice on what kinds of developers you are looking for, etc, that'd be good.
20:30.58MinuteElectronYou might have to wait a while, I don't really have the authority to answer questions regarding such things. I am just the website developer.
20:31.45MinuteElectronbrlcad is currently on his way to California so probably won't be active for a good few hours\days.
20:32.14jgayoh ok
20:32.20dtidrow_workwhat's he going out there for?
20:32.34MinuteElectronGoogle Summer of Code 2008 summit.
20:32.47dtidrow_workah
20:33.08MinuteElectrons/2008/2007
20:33.19jgayoh neat, did brlcad do a project?
20:33.19dtidrow_workheh
20:33.31dtidrow_workthat's what I was wondering
20:33.33MinuteElectronjgay: No, BZFlag.
20:33.34jgay*mentor
20:33.36jgayoh ok
20:33.53MinuteElectronbrlcad is the project manager for both projects.
20:35.00jgaydtidrow_work, can you tell me anything about the varius licenses. Is there a lot under the BSD license, or is that just some random bits?
20:35.13jgayI know it's mostly under the LGPL, but I just want to survey what's waht
20:35.15jgay*waht
20:35.40jgayMinuteElectron, neat . . . is he a volunteer or is he part of the army research office?
20:36.18MinuteElectronHe is part of the army research office for BRL-CAD as far as I know, BZflag is just a hobby IIRC.
20:36.39dtidrow_workjgay: dunno about the BRL-CAD licensing details, that's more of a brlcad question
20:37.58jgaydtidrow_work, cool. Do youknow anything about how active the project is being developed?
20:38.06jgayI will save more detailed development questions for brlcad
20:38.15jgaylike, what things need help, etc
20:39.14dtidrow_workit's pretty active - ARL has several developers working on it, IIUC
20:40.03jgayI can't believe I didn't know about this project, sooner
20:40.09jgayI mean, it's older than the GNU Project!
20:40.28dtidrow_workwell, it hasn't been GPL-ed for very long
20:40.46dtidrow_work4-5 years or so
20:41.15dtidrow_workbut the guts have been worked on for something like 25-30 years
20:42.50dtidrow_workthat's why they still use a VAX 11/780 as the baseline to compare against - gives them historical continuity
20:43.19jgayMinuteElectron, did you also do the delta3d homepage? Both look great.
20:43.33jgayhaha, nice, VAX
20:43.34dtidrow_workhigh-end desktop computers are nearly four orders of magnitude faster than the old 780
20:44.14dtidrow_workjgay: I need to get back to messing around with delta3d
20:44.28dtidrow_workI mostly work with OSG, which Delta3D is based on
20:44.46jgayis there a relationship between these two projects?
20:44.49jgaywhat's OSG?
20:45.01dtidrow_workOpenSceneGraph
20:45.36dtidrow_workkind of an open-source Performer (if you know what Performer is  :-)
20:48.04jgaynope, don't know what Performer is
20:48.42dtidrow_workdo you know what a scenegraph is, at least?
20:49.29MinuteElectronMinuteElectron: Oh, no. brlcad did all the imagery, I did the coding.
20:49.59MinuteElectronThere is a new site though http://my.brlcad.org/ - not finished yet.
20:50.21jgayi don't know what a scenegraph is
20:50.34jgayI've never had a programming job that involved a real GUI :-)
20:51.26jgayMinuteElectron: you just sent yourself a message :-)
20:51.33louipcBRL-CAD documentation has a special license 'BDL'
20:51.40louipcBSD Documentation License
20:51.46MinuteElectronjgay: I know, it was aimed at you lol./
20:51.46jgayinteresting
20:51.57louipcjgay: do you have a copy of the code?
20:52.01jgayyeah
20:52.08jgaylouipc
20:53.10louipcshould be in share/doc/legal
20:53.10dtidrow_workjgay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scene_graph
20:53.16louipcor sorry doc/legal
20:53.33dtidrow_workhttp://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/scenegraph/ - better pics here
20:53.37jgaylouipc, I figured out the three licenses. I was just trying to get a real sense of how much stuff is under the BSD
20:54.10louipcFSF is anti-BSD eh? :P
20:54.32jgaylouipc, well, I wouldn't put it that way :-)
20:55.19MinuteElectronI gotta run.
20:56.13louipc<PROTECTED>
20:56.14louipcthe geometric models, images, and other data resources are also
20:56.14louipcprovided under the BSD license.  Refer to each individual file for
20:56.17louipcspecific terms.
20:56.25jgaylouipc, ok, cool, thanks!
20:56.27louipcand buildfiles
20:57.45louipcit would be awesome to get more devs sweet
20:58.17jgaylouipc, yeah, I hope we can get some. I am checking with my boss that we can go ahead and make this a high priority project and put a call out
20:58.28louipcjgay: http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
20:58.36louipccheck out that app too
20:58.47louipcthat's on my list of 'things that should be developed' :D
20:59.10louipcsee.. I'm a machinist hehe so these are apps I need/want
20:59.18jgayoh, neat :-)
20:59.24jgayMy friend is doing this project: http://interreality.org/
20:59.28jgayand he's pretty far along with it
20:59.35jgaybut that is unrelated
20:59.48louipcah ok
21:00.16jgaylouipc, I don't think gcam will get on our high priority projects
21:00.23louipccool, seems more for entertainment
21:00.40louipcaww..
21:00.53jgaylouipc, he's bad at marketing, it's pretty serious under the hood
21:01.08louipcthere's no good open source CAM software though :/
21:01.35louipcyou know what I don't understand is that companies and schools would save TONS of money on licensing fees if they got together and developed this stuff
21:01.46jgaylouipc, can't you "just" throw a plug-in of sorts into brl-cad?
21:02.10louipcthe license for a single installation can be $20,000 or more
21:02.33jgaylouipc, I know, that's one of the things I want to start talking more about . . . getting out to schools, ngos, companies, orgs, etc, and talk about ways of pooling money and contributing to the development of these great projects
21:02.38louipcplus $5000 for upgrades
21:02.48jgayit will take some time, though, the FSF has a small staff and a lot of things we are working on
21:02.55louipcand the quality of the commercial stuff isn't always that great
21:03.08louipcyeah
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21:13.27dtidrow_workhmmm, wonder what's up with that
21:13.37louipcExcess Flood
21:26.51dtidrow_workbut why is it happening?  spam attack?
21:27.29archivistcopy pasting too large an amount
21:27.32MaloeranSomeone got broken scripts in his IRC client, probably
21:30.22dtidrow_workwas thinking it was some sort of bot spam attack
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21:43.51``Eriknah, probably in too many channels
21:44.15``Erikhappens to me on efnet at times, like a dozen channel and if I get disconnected, the autojoin on reconnect cycles me like that
21:44.23louipcoh yeah hah ouch
21:44.26``Erikand then I get banned for many months cuz mal doesn't listen when I msg him
21:44.27``Erik:D
21:48.49``Erikheh, fsf 'urgent' project? O.o nutty
21:49.15MaloeranHey Erik, there was trep in #opengl asking for Scheme stuff
21:49.39MaloeranA very old regular appearing from nowhere
21:50.10``Erikgcam is pretty nifty stuff, and it can't just be a plugin for a cad system, you have to actually figure out how to move the bit around... gcam does it with a fem type simulator
21:55.15``Erikjgay: not much code is under BSD (mostly stuff in the 'contrib' dir iirc).... and http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
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22:01.12louipcfem = ?
22:01.34archivistfinite element modeling
22:01.50louipc``Erik: you could build an app around BRL-CAD libs though eh?
22:02.53``Erikerm, of course...
22:37.08``Erikoi, dude, they set ya up in a decent hotel? (and read the backscroll)
22:38.41brlcadnot too shabby actually, definitely a "high" three star
22:38.57brlcadthere's even like three free intarwebs here
22:40.02brlcadthere's enough room for at least like 3 or 4 girls with me in the bed
22:40.11brlcadtoo bad none are attending this thing :)
22:40.35brlcadjgay: howdy!
22:40.42louipcat least they must be attending the bar... or some tables or something?
22:42.26brlcaddtidrow_work: not even 4-5 years, we're about to close out year 3
22:45.20brlcadjgay: there's more details in the COPYING file, see http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/COPYING
22:46.44brlcadbut the gist is that the entire package is under the LGPL with the exception of the build infrastructure, some scripts, data files, and some of the documentation
22:48.01brlcadbasically any of the stuff that is completely "peripheral" and could disappear on a moment's notice, or that we wouldn't even care if someone tried to sell it because it's prevalently available in other places, is under BSD
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22:49.09brlcadthe actual sources to BRL-CAD are almost entirely under LGPL, save a few grandfathered files that arein the public domain
22:50.30``Eriklgpl for libs, gpl for bins, I thought
22:51.48louipcI didn't think anything is in gpl anymore
22:51.49brlcadall lgpl now
22:51.56louipc:D
22:52.06louipcoh let me put my glasses on
22:52.09louipc8D
22:54.00brlcadthe problem was actually with ARL .. we couldn't refactor front-end gpl code into the libraries without causing problems ... and gpl libs are an outright non-starter for brl-cad's primary user and supporter (i.e. arl)
22:55.09``Erikhrm, I presume this was when I was a 'user' sorta?
22:55.27louipcwould GPL count if it isn't distributed outside ARL?
22:55.39brlcad7.10.0
22:56.27``Erikit's always been distributed out of ARL
22:57.03brlcadlouipc: that's where (imho) it's rather questionable, since arl certainly "redistributes" to an extent (or at least wants that right)
22:57.04louipcno I mean the 'secret' stuff
22:57.14louipcah
22:58.24``Erikthe non-public stuff is distributed outside of ARL, but with pretty strict constraints on who can see it, ugly license agreements...
22:58.35louipcof course
22:58.37brlcadso to have folks at arl contributing, and then arl distributing one of the brl-cad libraries with a binary version of one of the analysis codes (like muves or orca) .. they cannot do that if the libs were gpl
22:58.54louipcyea
22:59.07brlcadso yeah, libs as gpl is an absolute .. non-starter
22:59.30brlcadso in our best interest to be able to refactor back and forth from libs to front-end code and back, it really simplifies to make it all lgpl
22:59.42louipcwhy not all just BSD?
22:59.49brlcadaside from just making it freaking easier to talk about :)
23:00.07louipchehe
23:00.16``Erikheh
23:00.34brlcadthat's another perfectly viable option, but it doesn't buy us anything
23:00.37``Erikgpl served the purposes
23:00.56louipcyeah no use changing it anymore
23:01.55brlcadthat is one of the few areas where lgpl kinda serves a purpose.. i mean closed-source CAD is about a 5-10 billion dollar industry iirc, and the only difference of going to bsd would be that folks could use our code in closed codes without needing to share changes to our code (i.e. extensions)
23:02.45``Erik*nod* and we want the full experience available to everyone
23:02.51``Erikcuz we ROCK!
23:03.09louipcroxorz
23:03.18brlcadlgpl's a good balance of having everyone work on the same code without worries of what codes their hooking into, and with the assurance that nobody (in this expensive industry) is going to try to clam up and gain leverage -- encourages collaboration
23:04.23``Erikindustry amount aside, the big packages are like $20k-40k a seat
23:04.34louipcyep
23:04.36louipcor more
23:05.06louipcif you ask me schools/companies are stupid to not take initiative to develop open-source alternatives
23:05.36``Erikif it weren't virtually impenetrable, I'd try to write up a cad system :D I wouldn't mind a garage full of ferraris
23:05.49louipcyeah!
23:06.11louipcwell even GPL allows you to sell the software...
23:06.27brlcadyeah, it really is a massive market to make any sort of dent in
23:06.49archivistsexy gui will make the difference
23:06.50brlcadwe could have 10x the activity, and we'd still be about a decade behind the commercial systems
23:06.58louipcarchivist: yea definitely
23:07.05brlcadsexy gui will help get that 10x, if now 50x
23:07.08brlcads/now/not/
23:07.28louipc90% more users
23:07.45brlcad500% ;)
23:07.46louipcor uh more..
23:08.03louipcyea
23:08.30``Erikstart writing the replacement for mged, archivist :D I can't wait to see your results
23:08.40archivistheh
23:09.59brlcader, 5000%
23:10.23brlcaddivide by 23, carry the one, add 82 ..
23:10.27archivistor more
23:10.35brlcad5000% == 50x ;)
23:11.17louipcI will pick up dev one day....
23:11.37louipcI'll probably work on drafting aspects :D
23:12.37archivista "few" years ago
23:12.41louipcarchivist: haha sweet that's the first programming I ever did
23:13.05louipcborland turbo pascal
23:13.15archivistI used that before C
23:14.11``Erik<-- did basic and asm before C, thus is code-tarded
23:14.16``Erikwell
23:14.26``Erikbasic and mnemonics using a monitor on the c64
23:15.06archivistSC/MP then PET for me
23:15.10louipcI found a printed copy of a WATFIV (fortran) program in my garage
23:15.21louipcfrom 77 :D
23:16.00archivistsend a copy to bitsavers.org
23:16.13louipcwill do once I type it up
23:16.51louipcI need to find something to compile it too
23:17.20archivistmy debian box has fortran
23:17.43archivistg77 iirc
23:17.53louipcgcc-fortran is kickin still hey?
23:18.20archivistI was playing with it on my alpha so yes
23:19.12louipcyeah
23:19.30``Erikcan g77 do IV? O.o heh
23:19.36louipcuniversity of waterloo's variation of it anyways
23:19.43louipcI haven't tried compiling it yet
23:19.58archivistfortran-- for its column specific sillyness
23:20.25``Eriklots of languages from the era have that kinda silliness, archivist... take a look at, say, RPG
23:20.28louipcthat has to do with punch cards though
23:20.37louipcin that case it made sense, not so much nowadays
23:20.39``Erikdon't look very close, you'll have to gouge your eyes out if you do
23:22.36archivistI may have RPG on punched cards in the loft at home from an IBM 1130
23:27.24``ErikI d'no, C was in the land of minis with interactive terminals for a long time
23:27.34``Erikit was the unix programming language... :/
23:28.10louipcyeah
23:28.14jgaybrlcad, when you get a chance, would you mind emailing me at jgay@fsf.org
23:28.31jgaysorry I cut out earlier, I had to run out.
23:28.46louipcwhat would he email you about?
23:28.48jgayI'm signing off for the night right now, though. Look forward to chatting with you
23:29.09``Erikheh, mebbe YOU should email HIM with your list of questions :D *duck*
23:29.37brlcadjgay: sure
23:29.43louipcotherwise he'd say "umm.. you asked me to email you. Hi. wasup?"
23:29.46jgaythanks
23:30.07brlcadanything in particular I should write? :)
23:30.11jgaylouipc, exactly
23:30.15louipclol
23:30.21jgayhaha, i was just hoping to get your email address and starta  discussion
23:30.38louipcjgay: join the brlcad-dev ML
23:30.40louipc?
23:30.40jgayi want to put out a call to developers and make brl-cad a high priority project according to the FSF
23:30.52louipcjgay: yeah make your announcement there too
23:30.55jgayso i wanted to discuss with you some things about what kinds of developers, etc
23:31.22jgaylouipc, yeah, I can do that. I'll discuss it on brlcad-dev ML if that makes sense. Are you brlcad's administrative assistant?
23:31.25jgayI'm confused :-P
23:31.34louipcjgay: I'm an interloper
23:31.46jgayOK, I'm off for the night. Hehe. Thanks guys! Sorry I ran out and then again!
23:31.57louipccheers
23:32.16louipcadministrative assistant = secretary?
23:32.40archivistusually yes
23:33.22brlcadassists in administration ;)
23:35.01``Erikopposed to an administrator O.o
23:35.05archivistI hate these modern/higher terms being applied to pre-existing jobs
23:35.25``ErikI guess we must've annoyed jgay to have him wanting to talk in email instead of channel :D
23:35.54``Erikall in the name of political correctness O.o
23:35.59louipcthose damned FSF commies
23:36.25``Erikheh, I vagually recall something about drive channels being renamed in california? from master/slave to primary/secondary? O.o
23:37.02``Erikhttp://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/11/26/135701.php
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071006

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071006

00:16.27``Erik"The CVS version IS experimental, it may drink your milk, steal your cats or do other unexpected things (it shouldn't but it might, so just be warned)."
00:18.47louipcmy cats steal my milk so maybe I'll come out on the plus side
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04:02.45poolioWhich one of you is dannel?
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05:00.42brlcaddannel?
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06:00.42starseekerThe point about schools etc. is a good one though - when my undergrad school went with PeopleSoft all I could think was how a few good students with some web chops and postgresql backend servers could do everything that was being done (at least that we could see) and do it for a small fraction of the millions we were paying...
06:06.42starseekerjgay must be talking about adding BRL-CAD to this list?  http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html
06:40.59brlcadyeah
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16:27.00starseekerCan brlcad import dxf files?
16:27.34starseekernevermind, I see it in the tutorial
16:29.50starseekerCool - the project at http://sf.net/projects/dxf has some neat dxf files :-)
16:34.07starseekerAll 2d, but still nifty...
17:23.51brlcadhowdy starseeker
17:31.02starseekerhowdy
17:32.55yukonbobstarseeker: what's shaking my comrade-in-docbook?
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20:07.55starseekeryukonbob: Heh, sorry - out looking at car options
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21:51.44yukonbobhello, world
22:20.11starseekeryukonbob: hi y'all ;)
23:09.22yukonbobI want to learn a bit more about setting material or ray properties. Anybody who knows about these things want to chat?
23:41.57brlcadray properties?
23:43.36brlcadmaterial properties are set through the combination editor, there's a shader tab
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071007

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071007

00:08.55yukonbobre: material properties -- I'm not talking about colours + textures, but attributes (like the .density material)
00:42.19yukonbobas I understand, ray "properties" or attributes are actually set in the module that _is_ that ray (ie: xray properties are set in the rtxray program. is it as simple as that?). However what if some materials allow xrays to pass more easily than others (ie: a 'flesh' material wrapping a 'bone' material; the two materials shouldn't have the same xray signature).
00:43.47yukonbobdoes one just setup attributes for ea. material and have the rt[blah] poll the material for that attribute, and if not found fall back to a default, or bail (depending on design)?
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06:51.06brlcadyukonbob: you're on the right track, but only a few of the tools understand that material type
06:51.19brlcadit basically is just a simple material identifier (i.e. a number)
06:51.40brlcadthat number relates to a material type and a density
06:53.03brlcadwhich are either specified as a simple identifier to density mapping in an external file (e.g. rtweight) or as a table embedded into BRL-CAD (e.g. g_qa)
06:55.56brlcadat present, rtxray doesn't handle multiple densities. it basically presumes everything has the same density which iirc is specifically scaled so that it ranges from 1 to 255 per pixel.
06:56.12brlcadwould be trivial to add, but nobody has asked/needed to date
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17:23.24yukonbobbrlcad: thx for that info... I also played with rtrange, and I'm not sure that the plot file it generates is "good", as well as rttherm, which always seemed to bomb on me.
17:47.48brlcadrttherm does a different sort of ray-trace (actual multispectral) so I'm not too surprised with that .. not that it'd be too useful to you regardless
17:48.04brlcadthough it .. shouldn't crash if the inputs are right, maybe a bug
17:48.08brlcadrarely tested
17:58.30yukonbobhow's the West Coast treating you?
17:59.34brlcadwell, I'm sitting by a pool right now, drink sitting nearby, laptop in lap .. crystal clear blue sky
17:59.42brlcadit's horrible
18:00.33yukonbobenjoy it... where's your usual home?
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21:22.05yukonbobwhat's the way to poll which elem a pixel is in when doing rtX analysis?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071008

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071008

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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071009

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071009

05:26.33*** join/#brlcad cad91 (n=7aa26bb4@bz.bzflag.bz)
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13:02.33``Erikblehhhh, .83 vgr
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16:21.31CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r241 10/trunk/libirc/ (19 files in 2 dirs): 2004 -> 2007
16:58.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: add flag to disable autoview after drawing cloned objects
17:20.06CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r242 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp):
17:20.06CIA-4libirc: make server client records be virtual so derived classes can create their own.
17:20.06CIA-4libirc: stub out virtual channel classes.
17:20.06CIA-4libirc: free any user classes we make when we disconnect.
17:20.06CIA-4libirc: disconnect on destruction
17:20.07CIA-4libirc: clean up some searches and typedefs for ease of use.
17:41.45Maloeranhttp://simulatedcomicproduct.com/2005/10/28/boxes/
17:41.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: minor cleanup/simplification of get_name()
17:44.51``ErikDAMNIT, another webcomic to read the archives of and add to my snarf page :(
17:44.53``Erikbastage
17:47.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: use BUFSIZ instead of NAMESIZE to allow strings longer than 15 characters
17:53.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: realloc() the new name to avoid wasting space
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18:35.19MaloeranEheh Erik, I thought exactly that when pasting the url :)
18:40.41CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r243 10/trunk/libirc/HACKING: mention the real IRC channel for the project now instead of #bzflag
18:46.14CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r244 10/trunk/libirc/ (22 files in 2 dirs):
18:46.14CIA-4libirc: whitespace
18:46.14CIA-4libirc: free any allocated channel records when we disconnect
18:46.22CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r245 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: log part and join events
18:48.17CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r246 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: more whitespace
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19:48.50``Erikhttp://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/forced.landings.ap/index.html
19:48.51``Erikheh
19:50.13MinuteElectronlol
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20:31.27CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r247 10/trunk/libirc/ (9 files in 2 dirs): make event data structures all be called client data structures so they don't conflict with server event data.
20:32.17CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r248 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: update to new spellings/names
20:35.31CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r249 10/trunk/libirc/examples/spamBot/src/spamBot.cpp: update to new spellings/names
20:37.50CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r250 10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/vc7.1/simpleIRCConnect.vcproj: build multi-threaded, and link the run-times dynamically.
20:44.10CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r251 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/IRCClient.cpp): caps consistency
21:15.09CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r252 10/trunk/libirc/ (7 files in 2 dirs): rename all the client specific command handlers to say client, so we don't conflict with the server ones that will be happening soon.
21:15.31CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r253 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): hook in some basic command handler callbacks
22:03.56CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r254 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 2 dirs): keep the things that are const, const
22:04.40CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r255 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): call any registered command handlers when we get any IRC commands on the server
22:18.06CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r256 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): allow registration of command handlers
22:26.20CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r257 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h include/IRCEvents.h src/IRCClient.cpp): client events for clients, server events for servers
23:30.17CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r258 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCEvents.h include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp):
23:30.17CIA-4libirc: setup high level event system for server
23:30.17CIA-4libirc: add connection event.
23:34.32CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r259 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCServer.cpp: consttastic
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071010

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071010

01:31.39CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r260 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCServer.h src/IRCServer.cpp): get some command processing going
01:31.59CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r261 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidServer/src/stupidServer.cpp: log all transactions
01:32.09CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r262 10/trunk/libirc/examples/simpleIRCConnect/src/simpleIRCConnect.cpp: log all transactions
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05:38.47CIA-4libirc: 03mm_202 * r263 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCUserManager.h src/IRCUserManager.cpp): Commented out the area that is causing the segfaults. A dirty hack, but it'll be fixed later.
06:03.52CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r264 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCUserManager.h: footer
06:04.20CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r265 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: search the user records backwards, so that we can do erases and not need a fixed iterator.
06:07.35CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r266 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCServer.h: set the hostname
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06:08.30CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r267 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCServer.h: return the validitidy of said hostname
06:11.14CIA-4libirc: 03mm_202 * r268 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCClient.h: Removed a comment.
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06:42.31CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r269 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: verify iterators exist before we remove them
07:10.11CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r270 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: itrtastic.
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12:40.58``Erikhummm
12:41.01``Erik*vgr    vgr2.brl.mil    1.24    1.11    .99     .99     .93     1.05    
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13:58.12brlcadawesomes!
14:56.42``Erikthat's at 345kips, doing 330 now to see if I can get the summary tuned down a little
14:57.10``Erikthe last few are the most time intensive, I have a feeling that the skew I'm seeing is due to using 'infinitely' fast disks, which I doubt vgr had
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17:15.19``Erikxkcd rules
17:21.09*** join/#brlcad tlhiv_laptop (n=foo@c-68-63-25-78.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
17:52.27*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
17:53.43tlhiv_laptopi've installed brl-cad, but i'm not sure how to start the gui
17:53.52tlhiv_laptopi don't know what the name of the executable is?
18:09.12``Erik"Like the British Navy, a computerized system is designed by geniuses to be run by morons." heh
18:09.17``Erik"mged" is the one you want, tlhiv_laptop
18:09.43tlhiv_laptopok ... i'm going to recompile the latest version anyway ... i'll launch that one when it's done
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19:39.37brlcad``Erik: how'd the second run go?
19:39.55``Erikstill running
19:39.59``Erikon world.pix
19:40.16``Erikvgr was sssllloooowwwww compared to what we use now...
19:40.43brlcadfigured .. takes like an hour an image iirc?
19:41.02``Erikmoss takes around 30-40 minutes, m35 takes a couple hours
19:41.31``Erikjohn said they usually ran it overnight
19:41.31brlcadsphereflake will probably take half a day then :)
19:42.15``Erikayup
19:42.44``Erikand I hope to run it a few times to make sure I get reasonably consistent numbers
19:47.10brlcadhm, by the original numbers ( moss=41min bldg=106min world=109min star=93min m35=154min ) .. that means sphflake should be..
19:47.47brlcadtry the machine under cpu and then disk load too .. see if it affects simh
19:48.12brlcadto know if it needs to be set up clean-room like or if it's good regardless
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19:49.50``ErikI've been making sure there isn't any real load on the machine anyways *shrug* :/ kermit is going to try to find the system configuration file and details on the tuning and hw for the original
19:50.18brlcadlooks like it should be about 176 minutes for sphflake if I remember the vgr count correctly for the reference box
19:52.30``ErikI'm figuring if the average on this run is within 5%, I'll do a sphflake.log and drop it in, then if we can get it tuned better (mebbe witht he right drive emulated), do another sphflake... I'm hoping one run on vgr2 will be better than the current, and will get us the 95% mark on 'right'...
19:52.46``Erikbut that last 5% is 95% of the effort :)
20:06.33brlcadyeah, there's a diminishing payoff after too much effort
20:07.12brlcadeven the 1.05 isn't too bad, I could see it being slightly slower or (more likely) slightly faster
20:07.41``Erikif this run is better than 1.05, I'm calling it good... takes too much time :)
20:08.34brlcadthe only difference is that once it is normalized, it should make a massive impact on the final vgr
20:08.58brlcadsince right now, it's effectively lost in the average as a near-zero result in comparison
20:09.06``Erikum, I'm tuning the machine against 4.3, so sphflake isn't impacting the results
20:09.29brlcadi mean correcting current to actually be a "vgr" reference
20:09.30``Eriknow all the modern results will change
20:09.35brlcadinstead of the O2 I'd used
20:09.44brlcadright, that's what I mean
20:09.52``Erikand that's a good thing
20:09.54``Erik:D
20:09.59``Erik</marthastewert>
20:10.00brlcadit is
20:10.39brlcadit'll be a little wonky at first for those familiar with the old numbers, but makes current hardware actually correllate (instead of being artificially deflated)
20:11.00brlcadincreasing the modern/current vgr counts by about 1/6th
20:11.35brlcadeveryones machines will suddenly get 5% faster
20:12.14``Erikerm, 1/6 > 5%
20:12.17``ErikO.o
20:25.52*** part/#brlcad tlhiv_laptop (n=foo@c-68-63-25-78.hsd1.al.comcast.net)
20:46.54brlcader, 16%
20:47.15brlcaddivide by 18, carry the one, subtract 12 ..
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21:11.15*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-72-158.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:13.21*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net)
21:14.55Z80-Boylol
21:16.19starseekerof course, I hadn't rebooted in a month or more...
21:23.30``ErikO.o still shouldn't crash, I've run happy machines for over a year without anything like that... hell, I even managed a linux machine up over a year (but not running X)
21:24.28``Erikwith my fbsd boxen, the only downtimes I've seen (on a stable version, not my unstable hacking version) are power outages, kernel upgrade, hw upgrade, and nvidias binary driver *cough*
21:24.31starseekerIt was something funny about mouse/menu interactions I think...
21:24.48starseekerI probably hit some weird corner case
21:25.57starseekerAccidental click/drag/click-fast/wiggle or something...
21:32.46*** join/#brlcad thing0 (n=ric@203-59-216-158.dyn.iinet.net.au)
22:33.11starseekerbrlcad:  Back home yet?
22:36.19louipcopenoffice oh no
22:36.27starseekerhehe.
22:36.52starseekerWell, it's still better than MS Office and sometimes one has to communicate with that side...
22:50.22louipcyeah I need to set up a session manager
23:09.07``Erik'screen' is awesome like that.
23:11.05louipcscreen doesn't save X sessions does it?
23:11.37``Erikno, but it retains your console
23:11.52``Erikso unless thte machine reboots, you don't lose anything
23:12.13louipcyeah I use multiple terms + screen
23:12.50louipcbut I have to re create the windows if for some reason X acts up
23:16.22``ErikI tend to have one big honkin' xterm with screen running in it
23:16.44``Erikso I can detach, go to work, ssh in and screen -r to be back where I was
23:16.49``Erikand visa versa
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071011

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071011

00:59.08brlcadstarseeker: yeah, hogar dulce hogar
00:59.45brlcadsummer of code summit was awesome, hopefully I can get this project to participate next year
00:59.52brlcador we can start one of our own
02:01.20``Erikeven worse than spring break for geeks :D
02:04.14``Eriksouthpark, w00t
02:11.55brlcadwinter break is no longer practically possible regardless if I had to guess; we're running out of time
02:12.03brlcadmaybe still for january ( one month program )
02:12.04brlcadbut that's pushing it
02:50.46*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
03:58.02``Erikwinter break is a weak, and parents expects kids to swing by home... computer geeks are probably more likely to be at the whim of parents than non-geeks
03:58.28``Erikit's not 2 weeks of sitting around bored, there're flights, drives, family, etc ...
04:17.51louipcdamn I remember getting a month off
07:09.44brlcadI got a month off every year, even more if you counted the last days in december (though I wouldn't) -- same for friends in a half dozen other schools
07:10.06brlcadtechnically it was winter session, sometimes even could take a short course and get some credits out of the way
07:11.46brlcadeither way, it's not meant to be perfect, it would have been simply to identify with a market that didn't overlap with google's program and *could* work, which it pretty much could regardless of whether you really like it ..
07:12.22brlcadsummer isn't ideal either for tons of reasons
07:12.37brlcadi'd actually think we should do both, run a month long and run a 3 month program
07:12.48brlcadcater to different groups
07:12.54brlcaddifferent needs
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08:00.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: oops, don't forget to credit adam ross too .. the original author did have a bit of influence on the implementation. also mention erik upgrading bundled libpng to 1.2.21
08:03.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/view.c:
08:03.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: rip out the dead code. it's in CVS is someone ever really does need it to be
08:03.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: reinstated, but the restart code would need modifications for preserving proper
08:03.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: gamma correction regardless. so in leu of compile-time disabling it, just take
08:03.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: the code out and simply for now.
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11:55.43``Erikdamn, a month? I got jipped, my bday is in mid december and I remember finals week was also starting up during it (like my first final after dropping back into school was the day after my 21st... sucked), and the first week of jan was when classes started up :/
12:52.36blandwidthbrlcad: regarding the last commit - good
12:52.55blandwidthDead Code Elimination, lol :)
13:08.30``Erikheh, I was gonna get around to it... y'know... eventually
13:09.41``Erik#if 0 did the job, too *shrug8 but yeah, it's in cvs so it's not lost
13:09.46``Erikbahhhhh *vgr    vgr2.brl.mil    .94     .83     .75     .74     .70     .79    
13:46.21``Erik<grantk> What do you call a bunch of nerds arguing on the internet
13:46.21``Erik<PetrDoubt> "the internet"
13:49.04brlcadeek, that was with the 5 Hz tweak?
13:49.11``Erik345 -> 330
13:49.14brlcadahh
13:49.44``Erika 4.5% change causing a 33% change in result :(
13:50.02blandwidthNerdic Walking
13:50.27``ErikI think if this'll be useful, I'll have to do some heavy sampling
13:59.07``Erik"It was like teabagging a bear cub in front of its mother. The sheer audacity is the only thing that saved him." hehehehehe
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16:52.20thing0``Erik:
16:52.24thing0sorry
16:52.30thing0trying autocomplete names in pidgin
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18:42.02Z80-Boybrlcad: here?
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19:18.37angasulehello
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20:21.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/debian/.cvsignore: ignore generated changelog
20:23.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewarea.c: flush stdout/stderr just for good measure.
20:24.37Z80-Boybrlcad: !
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20:37.21starseekeryukonbob:  Around?
20:37.40yukonbobhey starseeker
20:39.46starseekerHow goes it?
20:40.01starseekerSorry about not being around - life has gotten... exciting of late
20:41.24yukonbobHrmm...
20:41.48yukonbobnot too bad here -- winter's set in by the look of it -- nothing too exciting going on...
20:50.25starseekerHeh - between work and my car it's been rather wild.
20:52.54yukonbobwhat's your work that it's "wild"?
20:54.26brlcadangasule: howdy
20:54.30brlcadZ80-Boy: yes
20:55.42yukonbobhey brlcad
20:57.50starseekeryukonbob:  They like assigning projects that are outside my training, and don't let me finish ones that ARE inside my training
20:57.50starseekerbrlcad:  Glad to hear the summer of code meeting went well :-)
20:57.50yukonbobstarseeker: ...is it interesting, or frustrating?
20:57.52starseekeryukonbob:  With enough time and resources, it would be interesting.  As it is...
20:58.28``Erikheh, so you have a real job... ok? :LD
20:58.29``Erik:D
20:58.52brlcadhowdy yukonbob
20:59.06brlcadstarseeker: it went great!
20:59.10starseeker``Erik:  Heh -pretty much
20:59.17starseekerbrlcad:  Excellent :-)
20:59.18brlcadalready looking forward to doing it again next year
20:59.30starseekerWhat are your "A list" projects?
20:59.42brlcadfor all of the hard work it took mentoring all of the students, the summit was one of the highlight return on investments
20:59.51brlcadBRL-CAD?
20:59.53brlcadBZFlag? :)
20:59.57starseekerAh :-)
21:00.11starseekerI was thinking BRL-CAD, but bzflag is important too ;-)
21:00.26``Erikprobably more important
21:00.33brlcadthere were lots of really good projects at the summit, just about every major OSS project was represented in some fashion
21:00.59starseeker"Deadline THIS Bob!"
21:01.21starseekerbrlcad:  Wow.  What a neat opportunity to talk to the key players :-)
21:02.03brlcadtext?
21:02.14starseekerYou mean labels on models?
21:02.28``Eriktelnet bzflag.bz 32010
21:02.31brlcadlike annotations or wireframe text labels in the 3d scene?
21:02.31``Erik> turn left
21:02.32``Erik> fire
21:02.56yukonbobfor labels in renderings, etc. Like povray -- so I could 'in mytitle text font size style "this is my text"', or similar...
21:02.57brlcadaww, connection refused :)
21:03.09``ErikMSG from brlcad: get off my fucking server, twit!
21:03.12``Erik*disconnected*
21:03.14``Erik$
21:03.28brlcadyukonbob: there already is a title -- the "title" command :)
21:03.39brlcadjust doesn't display in the renderings (currently)
21:03.57brlcadtalked about adding a "2D" overlay/annotation primitive
21:04.04brlcadthat's on the ideas list to implement
21:04.09yukonbobbrlcad: hrmm... /me will look into that -- I mentioned this before, but got no mention of 'title' (and didn't stumble/recognize it in browsing manuals)
21:04.22brlcadwouldn't even really be that hard -- the only trick is figuring out how it would interact with the ray-tracer if at all
21:04.36brlcadtitle is just that, a title that is set on geometry
21:05.00brlcadit's displayed in various places (like in the log during ray-tracing or as the window title in the geometry browser)
21:05.05yukonbob..oh -- _that_ title -- ya -- I know that -- what about arbitrary text pasted as a renderable object, though...
21:05.17brlcadyeah, that'd be the new feature to add
21:05.35brlcadwould be an excellent summer of code project idea :)
21:05.44louipchmm how would that work?
21:06.02brlcadshouldn't take more than a month or so if they were familiar with coding
21:06.14yukonboblouipc: /me imagines it rendering TT fonts... a la povray
21:06.30brlcadyeah, that's slightly more tricky, but not impossible
21:07.02starseekerWould that be converting ttf structure to brlcad geometry?
21:07.02louipcwould it make a texture on an invisible plane?
21:07.21brlcadI got true type font rendering in bzflag now via ftgl and freetype2, you could do something similar where you composite a rendered image with the font
21:07.52brlcaddepends, whether you want it to be annotative or actually part of the scene, as a means to help model 3D text in the scene
21:08.15brlcadI wasn't thinking of making it 3D geometry just yet, annotations are a little more important
21:08.16louipcthe text should be modifyable
21:08.54poolioalloo
21:09.07louipcsalut
21:09.10poolioca va?
21:09.13yukonbobya -- annotations would be nice -- it's already done w/ the wireframes (axes, for example)... which would be nice to get semantics for display w/ rt setup...
21:09.31starseekerSounds like in image editors - one layer for annotations which is otherwise transparent layered over the "image"
21:09.35brlcadanother excellent form of implicit modelling -- the text correllates with some 3D shape implicitly depending on a specified font, position, and orientation
21:09.51yukonbobre: modifiable -- could be setup as attributes to objects... totally modifiable in that case...
21:10.35yukonbobactually, in that case, perhaps one could build a completely seperate tool that could query the DB, develop the text part, and make a composite image?
21:11.17brlcadyeah
21:11.19louipcpoolio: ca va
21:11.24brlcadi think there's several viable ways
21:11.26brlcadwith their tradeoffs
21:12.06yukonbobrt -o foo.pix model.g object; rtanno -i foo.pix -o newfoo.pix  model.g object;
21:13.35brlcadyeah, had almost the exact same idea, cept it's labelled as rtannotate at the moment ;)
21:13.47yukonbob;0
21:13.50yukonbob;), rather
21:14.28starseekerThe beauty of tab completion on the command line :-) - no more is obscurity needed
21:15.01yukonbobstarseeker: not everybody uses bash :(
21:15.31louipcyukonbob: what do you use?
21:15.36yukonbobsh
21:15.39louipcwhoa
21:15.40yukonbob<PROTECTED>
21:15.45louipchah!
21:15.52starseekeryukonbob:  Well, if they seek out pain...
21:15.57louipcI don't even have sh
21:16.13yukonboblouipc: are you running a l00nucks?
21:17.21starseekerGuaranteed to defeat hackers as their brains explode trying to figure it out...
21:17.22louipcyukonbob: sh is a symlink to bash. No I'm running linux
21:17.39``Erikheh, using 'creat' instead of 'create' is considered a mistake by the dude who wrote it (I forgot if that was thompson, ritchie, or who...)
21:19.28yukonbob``Erik: yeh -- I remember reading an interview w/ Ritchie I believe, who considered not adding the 'e' the mistake he made with Unix...
21:21.49yukonbobsh is required by posix, whether it's traditional sh, or the gnu bastardized version...
21:21.49``Erikbt I hv n prblm wth nt sng vwls n th nx trdtn
21:21.49``ErikO:-)
21:21.49``Erikas long as the sh supports the minimal set of things a sh needs to do, it's generally considered "ok"
21:21.49``Erikas defined by posix.1
21:21.49yukonbobgah -- I'd rthaer raed smoehtnig wtih all the ltetrs mxied up...
21:22.49``Erikheh, when ti doesn't segfault :D
21:23.00brlcadit' doesn't any more does it?
21:23.14brlcadi'd not had any problems since the fix
21:23.15``Erikno, john fixed that
21:23.25yukonbobspeaking of segfaults -- brlcad did you see that I revisited my earlier dsp issue (out of mem) and found it to be the same?
21:23.32``Erikit'd be nice if it understood something about the input it's trying to complete
21:23.37``Erikso opendb would complete on the filesystem
21:23.40``Eriketc
21:24.05``Erikand I have a suspicion that performance will suffer tab completing on large geometries, I think it's O(n) on names right now
21:24.14brlcadyukonbob: in all honesty, it's not gotten an honest slice of my attention in the debugger just yet other than to verify that confirming that it did look like a bug
21:24.16``Erikusing lsearch in tcl I think
21:24.41brlcadeasy enough to test..
21:24.54Z80-Boybrlcad: tab-completion? Woohoo!
21:25.26``Erik8 wheels and a keg party in the back?
21:25.45louipchm?
21:25.54``Erikthe 'real model' :)
21:27.24``ErikI did a tab completion thing in some code once upon a time, ended up using a trie because I had an obscenely slow machine :)
21:27.45Z80-Boyone could also use burrows-wheeler transform for tab completion
21:27.47``Erik<-- points out that brlcad's desktop is *WAY* faster than dwaynes desktop *cough*
21:27.56Z80-Boyit would actually learn the things the user uses the most
21:28.02brlcadhm, seems to work fine with several hundred matches
21:28.07brlcadnot even a blip on the cpu
21:28.16``Erikhow many million parts?
21:28.58brlcaddunno, just tried a few interactive
21:29.23Z80-Boybrlcad: if I have an unpushed matrix in a combination whose one part is an arbn then which functions are used?
21:29.34``Erik*shrug* until someone complains, it's not an issue :)
21:29.40Z80-Boyit it like the ray is transformed through the matrix and then shot at the arbn?
21:29.43``Erikjust wanted to note that it might be one eventually
21:29.50Z80-BoyOr the arbn is transformed once and then rays shot at it?
21:31.48Z80-BoyIs this right?
21:31.49Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
21:31.50brlcadhm, okay .. so it's choked on 16 copies of the entire t62 with every primitive renamed with an 'a' suffix (took about 15 seconds)
21:32.05Z80-BoyIsn't there something missing around the aip->eqn[i][3];?
21:32.24brlcadbut at that point, even 'tops' takes about 15 seconds
21:32.36Z80-Boywhy is it called norm_dist when aip->eqn[i][3]; is unnormalized?
21:32.40Z80-BoyOr is it normalized before?
21:33.46``Eriktake a shower?
21:35.06Z80-BoyI guess the code is wrong.
21:35.54Z80-Boydoes VDOT do just a plain dot product?
21:36.51brlcadiirc, all of the norm() routines assume a normalized vector
21:37.00brlcadso that it doesn't have to check/compute it
21:37.12Z80-Boythis is norm_ variable, not a norm_routine
21:37.14brlcadthat was a performance tweak a long time ago that made a big difference
21:37.26*** part/#brlcad angasule (n=angasule@190.49.222.207)
21:37.43brlcadwhere is that line you pasted?
21:37.50brlcadin what routine?
21:37.57Z80-Boyrt_arbn_shot
21:38.15Z80-BoyI guess the last term has to be either divided or multiplied by the length of the plane vector
21:38.24Z80-Boycause it's possible to enter the plane vectors unnormalized
21:38.36Z80-Boy-or- renormalize the plane vectors after they have been entered
21:38.42brlcadyeah
21:38.47Z80-Boyso that's the bug?
21:38.49brlcadare you running into a different problem?
21:38.58brlcadjohn had fixed the other one iirc
21:39.03Z80-BoyI am running into a problem that my Ronja holder looks different than it should
21:39.06brlcadthat was related to normalized vectors
21:39.10Z80-Boybecause I used an unnormalized plane in arbn
21:39.24Z80-Boywhich one it was?
21:39.30brlcadi thought it was that one
21:39.32brlcadare you up to date?
21:39.36Z80-Boythis one is the "mirroring arbn produces a different shape" bug
21:39.43Z80-BoyI checked the bugtracker it's still marked open
21:39.49Z80-BoyChecked it today
21:39.58brlcadhmm
21:40.04Z80-Boyand it still compiles Ronja wrong
21:40.07brlcadthen maybe confusing it with a differnt one you posted
21:40.11Z80-Boyjust did update - it's till in the CVS
21:41.04brlcadk
21:41.26Z80-Boythe VDOT between a shot ray and plane normal produces what exactly?
21:41.31Z80-BoyA projection!
21:44.44Z80-Boythe plane basically stays the same if you multiply all 4 numbers by some constant, right?
21:44.58Z80-Boyax+by+cz+d=0
21:45.34Z80-BoyIf you do it the VDOT grows by the same constant as the  aip->eqn[i][3]
21:45.39Z80-Boyso it shouldn't be a problem
21:45.45Z80-Boyjust the norm_dist gets denormalized
21:45.53Z80-Boyso now it has to be divided by the vector length
21:46.16Z80-Boyof the plane normal vector
21:48.46Z80-Boyand then there is a remote chance my holder will look right ;-)
21:54.18brlcadswank
22:01.09Z80-Boyhmm it didn't help, it's the same :(
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071012

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071012

01:22.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c):
01:22.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: "B -A" no longer acts like you gave it the wrong syntax if nothing matches.
01:22.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: Also, "B" commanad with no args now acts like "Z".
02:58.58``Erik'commanad' wow...
02:59.26``Erikyeah, he's just a dude, but, ... jra produces godlike output, it boggles me that he'd make a typo\
04:56.51brlcadheh
06:08.31*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
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07:24.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): create/generate the generic versionless libraries during compile/install so that the former behavior of just using -ltcl and -ltk will work for external codes.
07:39.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/ (4 files in 4 dirs): merge the tcl/tk symlink checks in from head so that -ltcl and -ltk work for external users
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13:54.53``Erikheh
13:55.21``ErikI'm out sick today. I woke up feeling like shit, then got an email telling me that a close college buddie died in a motorcycle accident.
13:55.44Z80-Boy``Erik: was it like telepathy?
13:55.49Z80-BoyFeeling shit because someone close died?
13:55.52``Erikno, he died a month ago
13:56.05``Erikblew a corner and hit a sign :(
13:56.25``Erikas much as I like motorcycles, I doubt I'll ever own one.
13:57.04``ErikI've ridden them before, and have had fun... but hearing stories, losing friends... and the idiocity of suv drivers... it's not a very safe activiy
13:58.00``Erikso, brlcad, I tried to call phb (got vm), and sent email, if anyone is looking for me, save it 'till tuesday  :D
14:12.14Z80-Boy``Erik: Mike Muus died on a road...
14:28.46*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
14:36.41``Erik7 years ago
14:37.06``Erikbut I (unfortunately) never met the man
14:37.57``Erikso it's a BIT more distant than finding out a friend who I've written code with, went out drinking with, slept on his couch (after drinking too much)... :/
14:38.04``Erika month ago
14:38.28``Erikat least it was an accident... a close friend of mine commited suicide a couple years ago, THAT was hard
14:39.47``Erikended up bawling like a baby over that :) right now, I'm just drinking myself fucktarded
14:41.03Z80-Boywas it hard to commit the suicide?
14:41.22Z80-BoyTwo classmates from the university, one was a friend, also comitted suicide
14:41.50Z80-Boya distant friend let's say
14:42.37``Erikno, my coping with it was hard.
14:43.02Z80-Boylike some programs corrupt their memory and then crash
14:43.04Z80-Boypeople do the same
14:43.21Z80-Boyconvince themself that jumping from a bridge etc. is good for them
14:43.30Z80-Boyideas can be dangerous ;-)
14:43.40``Erikrocky got me my first computer job, I sat in his living room for new years 2000, with the couch that had a broken spring that stabbed your ass, heh
14:44.04Z80-Boyno more rocky anymore because rocky crashed, that simple
14:44.10``Erikhe was a great guy :/
14:44.29``Erikdan was, too
14:44.47``Erikin general, I will only get fitshaced drunk infront of people I really really trust. these were both guys that qualify for that
14:44.51Z80-Boydon't worry he would be dead later anyway
14:44.58Z80-Boyall people seem to eventually become dead
14:45.07Z80-Boyhe just time shifted it
14:45.10``Erikheh
14:45.12Z80-Boylike you time shift a TV show on VHS
14:45.25``Erikwhen my grandparents passed, it was a lot easier
14:46.19``ErikI'm not sure if it's the lost possibilities, or the realization of mortality, but young people dying is a lot more tragic than old people dying
14:46.34``Erikvodka good. *grunt*.
14:46.54Z80-Boywell the young people would turn into old people anyway
14:48.05Z80-Boyand then into zombies
14:48.09Z80-Boyand then they would turn dead
14:48.42Z80-Boydying should be banned under the death penalty
14:48.59Z80-Boycause it makes the remaining people uncomfortabl
14:49.10``Erikattempted suicide is a federal crime in the US
14:49.24Z80-Boyso your friend is a criminal!
14:49.31``Erikno
14:49.38Z80-Boycan you get into jail for attempting suicide?
14:49.38``Erikhe didn't attempt, he succeeded.
14:49.41``Erikyes
14:49.45Z80-Boywow
14:50.11Z80-Boymurder on /dev/loopback
14:50.31``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_views_of_suicide
14:50.37Z80-BoyThis is the police. Stop aiming at your head or we shoot you down
14:50.57Z80-BoyIronically, the punishment for attempted suicide in some jurisdictions has been death.
14:51.00Z80-Boylol
14:51.02``Erikok, not federal, some states
14:52.30Z80-BoyIn the United States, suicide has never been punished as a crime nor penalized by property forfeiture or ignominious burial.
14:53.37``ErikI'm more in tune with teh laws when I grew up, so I'm kinda operating on early 90's law... with washington being a specific set... which listed suicide as a felony at the time *shrug*
14:53.54``ErikI have been educated. Suicide is no longer a punishable crime in the us
14:56.38Z80-BoyWell suceessfull suicide is still punished by the death penalty
15:08.39*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch)
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15:53.50starseeker``Erik:  Sorry to hear that - my condolences :-(
16:42.42*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
17:00.49brlcadhowdy yukonbob
17:02.16yukonbobhey brlcad. Happy Friday..
17:02.26brlcadyeah, likewise :)
17:05.13*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com, ask for an account if you're willing to hunt/fix bugs :) || Release 7.10.4 imminent
17:05.19brlcad~spell imminent
17:05.30brlcadsounds too minty
17:05.36Z80-Boy~spell immenent
17:05.47Z80-Boy~spell eminem
17:05.55brlcad~dict immanent
17:06.02Z80-Boy~spell brlcad
17:06.19brlcad~dict imminent
17:06.33brlcadaiight, so I did get it right at least :)
17:06.46Z80-Boy~spell bricket
17:07.30bricked_brigade~spell briquette
17:08.23yukonbobbrlcad: I'll take an account for coverity -- I assume it's up/running again?
17:08.51brlcadit's up, but the scan is incomplete
17:09.06brlcadso it's not really of any use just quite yet until the scan is rerun
17:09.19bracket_brigadebrlcad: I think you should render head and headcut from ronja to see the vast orders of magnitude rendering time
17:09.28bracket_brigadewhen one is just a cutaway view of the other
17:09.46bracket_brigadeor perpend and perpendcut it's a simple design and it's the same problem
17:10.39brlcadhave you run a profile?
17:10.54brlcadthat would be useful to see if the difference is obvious
17:10.59brlcadi mean code-wise
17:18.45brlcadahh .. apparently I can't create accounts just yet even if I want to
17:18.59brlcaddavid has to enable some option or create them for us
17:19.05brlcadprobably because our scan was incomplete
17:19.40*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent
17:19.46bracket_brigadea profile? What is it?
17:20.07bracket_brigadeLike code profiling in C?
17:24.01brlcadyeah
17:24.02brlcadgprof
17:24.21brlcad./configure --enable-profiling --enable-debug --disable-optimized
17:24.54brlcadthen run one ray-trace, run gprof; then run the other ray-trace, and run gprof again
17:25.08bracket_brigadegprof with what params?
17:25.10brlcadpost/compare the two reports
17:25.27brlcadwhen you run rt it'll dump out a gmon.out file into the current directory
17:25.46brlcadso you just have to run gprof in that same directory, with a param of the /path/to/rt
17:26.26brlcade.g. /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -o /dev/null ronja.g ronja && gprof /usr/brlcad/bin/rt
17:26.40bracket_brigadeaha nice
17:26.47brlcader, gprof /usr/brlcad/bin/rt > results.log 2>&1
17:27.20brlcadthen rm gmon.out, do another rt with the slow object, and get the next gprof output
17:48.02*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
17:48.17Z80-BoyIf I run ./configure with different parameters do I have to type make clean after?
17:48.24Z80-BoyOr can I continue with make?
17:51.31brlcadhave to make clean
17:51.41brlcadit has to rebuild all of the files with the profile parameter
17:51.54Z80-Boygprof a.out no such file or directory
17:52.23Z80-Boyaha I didn't do make clean anyway
17:52.52brlcadyou wouldn't have an a.out either
17:52.57Z80-Boyhmm gprof reads the given object file but I guess rt is assembled from a lot of different object files which one should I supply?
17:52.58brlcadunless you're building your own thing
17:53.08Z80-BoyThe one whose timing I am interested in?
17:53.33brlcadyou supply gprof with the binary that you're running (i.e. rt)
17:53.42brlcadone that ideally has profile symbols included
17:53.44Z80-BoyOK cool
17:54.05brlcadto get those profile symbols, you have to build the application (and all object files and all libraries it uses) with a profile option enabled
17:54.21brlcadotherwise it can't instrument the function calls and give a good profile
17:54.51brlcadso yeah, make clean, run configure with those options I mentioned, then run rt+gprof twice
18:07.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: john fixed mged 'B' command behavior with -A and no args
18:08.41yukonbob.and "B" alone doesn't puke error msgs anymore
18:12.03brlcadyep
18:12.11brlcadacts like Z
18:12.56yukonbobis it possible to have lookat behave like eye_pt or ae where if it has no args, it reports current settings?
18:14.40brlcadprobably easy-as-pie
18:15.02brlcadcare to make a patch? :)
18:15.05yukonbobit makes sense to have it do that, as it's useful, and inline w/ the behaviour of others
18:15.20yukonbobbrlcad: I'm looking for relevant code right now ;)
18:57.35*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-7.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:57.58Z80-Boybrlcad: I maked after the ./configure you recommended for profiling and got this:
18:58.48Z80-Boy/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent [...] -o btclsh [...] -lm ../../src/libtermio/libtermio.la -lm
18:58.56Z80-Boy/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `putchar'
18:58.56Z80-Boy/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `rand'
19:00.25Z80-Boymake src/rt/rt actually says nothing to make so I tried profiling. I ran rt ronja.g head and then
19:00.28Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~/brlcad/src/rt$ gprof ./rt
19:00.28Z80-Boygprof: ./rt: bad format
19:00.39brlcadyou sure do guess a lot ;)
19:00.49brlcad(when you run into problems in particular)
19:01.07brlcadsrc/rt/rt is not a binary
19:01.14Z80-Boyoh :)
19:01.30brlcadit needs to be installed, or you'd have to build static
19:01.49Z80-Boyso now make install?
19:01.49brlcadthose symbols from Xft are bizarre, those are like -lc symbols
19:01.58brlcaddid the libraries build?
19:02.02brlcadand did you rebuild rt
19:02.05Z80-Boywhich libraries?
19:02.08brlcadall of them
19:02.17Z80-Boyall brlcad libraries?
19:02.22brlcadis btclsh the first failure?
19:02.29Z80-Boyumm I don't know
19:02.35Z80-BoyI restarted the build in the meantime
19:02.44brlcadyou're making this more complicated
19:02.46Z80-Boyhow do I figure out if the libraries built
19:02.54Z80-BoyI did that on the bus
19:03.00brlcaddo a make clean
19:03.02brlcadthen make
19:03.07brlcadtell me how far it gets
19:03.08Z80-BoyOK
19:03.45Z80-BoyI don't get any compile error when I do just plain ./configure
19:03.56Z80-Boyand btw I found another bug in raytracing
19:04.28brlcadno library flags change with --enable-profile
19:04.55brlcadso I'd bet you had an unclean build of some sort, or something else is going on
19:05.45brlcad"just recompiling" certainly doesn't cause that sort of error by itself
19:06.01*** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
19:06.27brlcadyou could add -lc to the LIBS but why you need to is really odd (but perhaps necessary on your OS)
19:06.51brlcadtry ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc
19:07.10brlcadi saw it
19:07.16Z80-Boyyou get e-mails?
19:07.22brlcadon every change
19:07.25Z80-Boywow
19:07.50Z80-Boy-lc? like libc?
19:08.09Z80-BoyWhy should be this specified? C program always compiles with libc doesn't?
19:08.19Z80-Boyunless
19:08.38Z80-Boy"My name is Theo de Raadt and Chuck Norris always asks me if he's allowed to turn his computer on."
19:08.58brlcadthose are symbols that are in libc (putchar and rand)
19:09.11Z80-Boyyes I know
19:09.21brlcadyes, most OS automatically link against libc, but not all OS's .. and apparently not yours in that instance for some reason
19:09.53brlcadcould be a libXft problem or a libtool problem or just a quirky behavior of your OS
19:10.07brlcadmy money is on the latter
19:10.15Z80-Boyif a program runs on OpenBSD it runs on anything ;-)
19:10.21Z80-BoyEspecially regarding segfaults ;-)
19:20.34Z80-BoyHas anyone worked with vacuum tubes?
19:20.53Z80-BoySomeone suggested to put a valve into the Ronja frontend to attempt reducing the noise
19:21.43Z80-BoyI found a valve which has comparable parameters to the FET cascodes (tetrodes) employed but then someone on the mailing list said they actually significantly improved equipment with tubes by replacing tubes with transistors
19:21.56Z80-Boyand he thinks the noise they observed is caused by the hot electron cloud.
19:32.49*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
19:32.49*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent
19:51.48Z80-Boybrlcad: now the compilation wiped out at the same place
19:51.53Z80-Boy/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `putchar'
19:51.53Z80-Boy/usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0: undefined reference to `rand'
19:52.32Z80-Boyif I add -lc after -lm, it doesn't help
19:53.00Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~/brlcad/src/bwish$ nm /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.6.0 | grep putchar U putchar
19:54.12Z80-Boyif I remove --silent, it prints the gcc call it does
19:54.18Z80-Boyand -lc is stripped away from there again
19:54.43Z80-Boyif I add -lc manually there, it works.
19:55.09Z80-Boywhat is the purpose of libtool? Break the compilation?
19:55.55brlcadit apparently determined that it's already added or not needed
19:56.05brlcadso perhaps a libtool bug + quirky system
19:56.13brlcadthe fact that you need it at all seems stupid
19:56.24Z80-Boywhat does it do apart from screwing up the compilation?
19:57.24Z80-Boyyou should into the BRL-CAD README: Requirements: non-quirky system and non-buggy libtool
19:57.36Z80-Boyand a URL where is described how to meet these requirements for any system
19:58.07brlcadlibtool significantly helps 95% of the time
19:58.12brlcadit's that 5% that's a bitch, though
19:58.27Z80-Boywhat does it do?
19:58.28brlcadstill worth it overall, but can be a pita when systems aren't popular
19:59.20brlcadit does the determination for how to successfully compile for your platform, how to make binaries and libraries correctly, how to link, where to find and put libraries, what kind of libraries, what compilation options, linker options, on and on
20:00.01Z80-Boys/correctly/without_any_guarantee_of_correctness/
20:00.02brlcadthe sort of details like that you need -dynamiclib on some versions of mac and -dynamic on others and -rdynamic on some versions of linux, but not others, and so on
20:00.38brlcadit's no more error prone than any other piece of software, all the autotools have their share of annoying bugs .. if this is even a bug
20:01.01Z80-Boyit's a bit labour intensive to rerun libtool and then paste the gcc etc... for every program where it fails
20:01.33brlcadyou can set it so it always blathers the gcc line
20:01.59Z80-Boyyeah that's what I am doing
20:02.04brlcad--enable-progress
20:02.14Z80-Boywhere?
20:02.18brlcadconfigure option
20:02.27Z80-Boywhat does it do?
20:02.30brlcad--enable/disable is *always* configure
20:02.45brlcadit enables the gcc line
20:03.18brlcadit's listed under ./configure --help and in detail in the INSTALL file that covers compilation
20:04.22Z80-BoyI should probably replace /usr/bin/gcc with a script...
20:05.17Z80-Boyand here we gooooo...
20:05.47Z80-Boylibtoll failed to implement a protection against *THAT* :)
20:06.08Z80-Boyand now compile the rest of brlcad with "vanilla" gcc...
20:06.43Z80-Boylibtool behaves like some kind of DRM which knows better what's good for you, but knows it wrong ;-)
20:08.44Z80-BoyThey should pass a bill that replacing /usr/bin/gcc with a script is a crime.
20:10.01brlcadeh, trying to replace gcc with something still called gcc but doesn't behave like gcc would be "wrong" imo, I'd want it to fail in that situation :P
20:10.30Z80-Boynow it fails the same way in src/mged
20:10.39brlcadthat's about as annoying as the debian folks replacing automake and autoconf with scripts (that are outright busted in various situations)
20:10.43Z80-Boyso we put the script back again and compile the whole brl-cad this way
20:10.59Z80-BoyOpenBSD has them also replaced with script
20:11.00brlcadhow can it "now fail" in a different place?  if the build stops, it's stopped
20:11.32brlcadif you hack at it to try and get it to continue, and don't do so correctly, it's gonna keep failing...
20:11.43Z80-Boybecause I used the "script method" only for bwish.
20:11.56brlcadyou really shouldn't expect any different, the problem's not been fixed
20:12.26Z80-Boylibtools implements AI
20:12.33Z80-BoyArtificial Imcompetence
20:12.43brlcadthe bigger question is what's different between configure with no options and configure with profile options -- I still don't believe that to be the case
20:13.18Z80-Boyyou told me to use 3 options, --profile was one of them
20:13.21Z80-BoyI used it like you said.
20:13.27brlcad--profile wasn't one of them
20:14.15Z80-Boyoh sorry it was --enable-profiling:
20:14.19Z80-Boy"21:06 <@brlcad> try ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc"
20:14.20brlcadand that STILL doesn't answer what's *different*
20:14.29Z80-BoyWhy did you say LIBS=-lc?
20:15.12brlcadsomehow I bet if you ran make clean && ./configure && make   that it would also fail, if that really is the only difference
20:15.17Z80-Boythe configure commandline options are different
20:15.29Z80-Boy./configure works, ./configure --disable-optimized --enable-profiling LIBS=-lc doesn't
20:15.37Z80-BoyNow it compiled with the help of my "script method".
20:15.53brlcadhave you ran a clean configure since running clean?
20:15.59Z80-Boyno
20:16.05brlcadthen your statement is bogus
20:16.26Z80-Boynow it compiled all brlcad successfully
20:16.33Z80-Boyshould I do make install now?
20:17.06Z80-Boymaybe my statement is bogus
20:17.14Z80-Boyand I am also said to have bad attitude, beware!
20:18.20brlcadyou're just way too quick to jump to conclusions that have very little if any basis, with an incomplete understanding of what's going on
20:18.43brlcadthis problem is going to keep biting if it's not figured out
20:19.26Z80-Boyyou mean the "undefined putchar" problem on OpenBSD when profiling is turned on?
20:19.45Z80-Boynow I am installing...
20:19.57brlcadif you don't want to figure it out, that's fine by me -- I couldn't care less, it's your system -- but then you've got very little basis to be bitching about it not working right when the problem isn't fixed and you hack around it in various ways..
20:20.15Z80-Boybut can I help you with some information to figure it out?
20:20.16brlcads/fixed/even determined really/
20:20.20Z80-BoyI don't know what I should investigate
20:21.49brlcadrun make clean and ./configure with no options followed by make -- now that you've cleaned beforehand, see if that works -- see if -lc is on the compile line
20:22.40Z80-BoyOK...
20:23.00Z80-Boyit'll just take a while wait
20:24.11brlcadthanks
20:24.20Z80-Boymake clean done, configure running
20:24.40brlcadand I'll gladly hop on again too if it's non-obvious, might see something missed
20:25.22Z80-BoyOH, I have profiling output!
20:25.27Z80-Boymake clean finished, running make...
20:27.00Z80-Boyis the profiling affected seriously by compilation in the background?
20:30.06brlcadi'd wait for the compile to finish regardless
20:30.26Z80-Boysure
20:30.27brlcadiirc, it keeps track of both cputime and wallclock, so it'd mess with the profile a little
20:35.28Z80-Boyboth slow and fast spend most time in _mcount
20:35.33Z80-Boyfast spends 22% slow 27%
20:36.25brlcadbah
20:36.43brlcadthen gnu folks haven't done a good job with gprof on openbsd yet
20:38.23Z80-Boycan you be more specific?
20:38.37brlcadtry adding -e mcount to gprof
20:38.40Z80-Boyand when I ran the rt for the profiling, it sometimes crashed and sometimes not
20:38.48Z80-Boyproduced some "*.log" files but no core files
20:38.49brlcader, -E mcount
20:38.55Z80-Boyit begins BRL-CAD Release 7.10.3  Crash Report
20:39.07CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r271 10/trunk/libirc/include/libIRC.h: start some doxygen type comments to get the ball rolling.
20:39.09Z80-Boycall stack backtrace is full of question marks
20:39.46brlcadthere should be an rt.*crash.log file
20:39.56brlcadcan you post it somewhere?
20:40.15Z80-Boyunknown-13359-bomb.log     unknown-1506-bomb.log
20:40.30brlcadokay, those
20:40.37Z80-Boyon the captu?
20:40.46CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r272 10/trunk/libirc/include/libIRC.h: missed the shabang!
20:40.59brlcadcaptu?
20:41.06Z80-Boywhere is the post-large-printouts website?
20:41.18brlcad~bzpastebin
20:41.18iboti guess bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel
20:45.18Z80-Boyhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4c2f613e
20:46.50Z80-Boyhere is a piece of the profile for the "fast" model: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m59137327
20:47.48Z80-BoyAnd here for the "slow" one: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3ffb84d6
20:48.02brlcadhrmph
20:48.26brlcadwell good to see that the automatic crash reports are working, but there were absolutely no symbols in there so it's practically useless
20:49.00brlcadwell, not absolutely -- it's a null pointer dereference of some sort that just totally blew out the stack
20:49.29brlcadwhich .. openbsd is supposed to prevent from happening too.... odd
20:50.35Z80-BoyI don't understand it into such details
20:50.51brlcaddid you add the -E mcount?
20:50.53Z80-BoyI just know Theo's Puffy keeps burglars out of my P.C. by some stack randomization and whatever other tricks.
20:50.59Z80-Boyno I didn't
20:51.06Z80-Boythat was without -E mcount
20:51.39brlcadtry both with "-E mcount -E _mcount" just to be sure
20:51.44brlcadmake sure there's no mcount in the result
20:51.52brlcads/result/report/
20:52.16Z80-Boynow worker [1] is the number one
20:54.36Z80-Boynow in the bad one the calloc is the #1
20:54.39Z80-Boyshould I post it?
20:57.19Z80-Boyhey look crash again
20:57.30Z80-BoyAdditional mem=0., #malloc=1575, #free=1318, #realloc=4 (257 retained)
20:57.30Z80-Boy804dc0bu_log: write error
20:57.30Z80-BoySaving stack trace to unknown-13652-bomb.log
20:57.55Z80-Boyno core again
20:58.12Z80-Boyand again stack all question marks
20:58.59Z80-Boy2 more crashes in a row and 6 successful raytraces
20:59.11Z80-BoyMaybe it's the thread ordering? Or page ordering in memory?
21:00.15Z80-BoyInteresting. If I run 'find /', then the rt gets a fit of couple crashes and then subsequent runs raytrace happily
21:00.22Z80-Boyuntil I run the find / again ;-)
21:01.53Z80-Boythe slow model needs 15.5 sec the fast one 0.074 sec
21:02.13Z80-BoyThat's 209x faster
21:02.18Z80-BoyIs it normal? Just a cutaway...
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21:03.33Z80-BoyBy CPU time the difference is 214x
21:07.20Z80-BoyOK make finished OK
21:07.39Z80-BoyThere are lots of gcc commandlines in the compile, one example:
21:08.33Z80-BoyI can't find one it's all libtool
21:15.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03lbutler * 10brlcad/src/conv/intaval-g.py: a script that parses INTAVAL files into Tcl that mged can read.
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21:18.12*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent
21:19.53``Erikum, the whole bsd family tends to be finicky about profiling shtuff
21:20.16``Erikall the symbols are provided in libraries (libc_r.so libc_p.so etc)
21:20.21``Erikbut gcc is... gooby
21:22.14CIA-4libirc: 03brlcad * r273 10/trunk/libirc/include/ (6 files): some more doxygenification
21:23.34brlcadZ80-Boy: no, I think you pinpointed a really bad inefficiency (calloc) that shouldn't be happening .. that's the glory of profiling :)
21:23.46brlcadjust need to see the profile myself to see where it's coming from
21:24.26brlcadi'm about to run out for a few hours, so I'll have to catch up
21:25.05``Erikis the 'cutaway' using a "half" primitive? I'm under the impression that 'half' is horrible for performance
21:25.34``Erik(also, I've never thought of obsd as an efficient for fast os... it's the "safe" one...)
21:32.14Z80-Boywhat's the story morning glory
21:39.13Z80-Boybool.c: "                 *  The list is terminated with a NULL pointer,
21:39.13Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
21:39.14Z80-Boy"
21:39.19Z80-BoySounds like could be optimized...
21:42.51Z80-Boyshoot.c also contains one calloc which smells like could be optimized
21:43.55Z80-Boybasically any calloc is suspicious
21:44.04Z80-Boywhat's the point of having a memory block zeroed out?
21:44.15Z80-BoyIf you want to write into part of it then do malloc, write, and zero out the rest
21:45.05Z80-BoyIf you don't write then you can replace any read into the block with 0
21:45.17Z80-Boyso you don't need this block to be actually present anywhere and can just forget it
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22:56.48``Erikheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071013

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071013

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06:35.32brlcadZ80-Boy: you ever get the two new profiles up with the -E mcount -E _mcount ?
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07:10.46Z80-Boyum...
07:10.49Z80-BoyI can do it
07:11.45Z80-Boybut can yo ureproduce the 210x slowdown in your installation?
07:13.11Z80-BoyNow I get a weird behaviour of the framebuffer window
07:13.27Z80-BoyIf I put mouse over it, the whole screen turns black, except that the mouse pointer is visible.
07:13.44Z80-BoyI produced the framebuffer with the same command as before, and it didn't happen.
07:14.01Z80-BoyIf I click on the framebuffer after the screen turns black, it goes away.
07:15.24Z80-BoyInteresting is what happens if I put a video play on the desktop background using mplayer -rootwin -fs
07:15.28brlcadfocus man
07:15.34brlcadlooking to get the profile logs :)
07:15.54brlcadthat is the critical next step
07:16.00Z80-BoyWhen I go with the mouse over the framebuffer, I see video over the whole screen with the two xterm's and the framebuffer cut out like black masks - black rectangles
07:16.10Z80-BoyBut why a single command behaves in 3 different ways?
07:16.25Z80-BoyOnce raytraces, one crashes, once produces a blackhole framebuffer?
07:16.53brlcadthat's two separate bugs
07:17.08brlcada bug in X11 and a bug in the OpenGL interface in BRL-CAD
07:17.14Z80-BoyI'll upload the gprof logs to the 210x bugreport, right?
07:17.26Z80-BoyDoes it mean you have already seen this bug?
07:17.26brlcadsure
07:17.30brlcadyes
07:17.34Z80-Boyhehe :)
07:17.40brlcadyou can get around it with --disable-opengl
07:17.45brlcader, --without-opengl
07:17.55Z80-Boydo you think opengl is a piece of crap?
07:18.02brlcadnot in the least
07:18.11Z80-Boyis it designed well?
07:18.14brlcadthat just disables the libfb and libdm interfaces that use opengl
07:18.31brlcaddoesn't remove *any* functionality in brl-cad, just changes the language it's speaking
07:18.49Z80-BoyOh a little problem
07:19.08Z80-BoyI reinstalled the systemwide brl-cad with a non-gprof version since I wanted to leave Ronja raytracing overnight
07:19.13brlcade.g. run rt -F/dev/Xl .. it should not exhibit the black screen
07:19.15Z80-Boyand the gprof version crashes and is slower
07:19.21Z80-Boynow I have to recompile again omg
07:19.34Z80-BoyBut - you said yesterday I should try something with make clean ./configure make
07:19.40Z80-BoyI did it and the make was successful
07:19.47Z80-Boywhat should have I figured out after?
07:20.02Z80-BoyYou said I should look if there's a -lc flag but I don't know where exactly I should look.
07:20.17brlcadah, yes -- on the linker line for bwish
07:20.32Z80-Boynow I guess I do make clean in the src/bwish right to reinvoke the linker?
07:20.41brlcadmake noprod
07:20.48brlcadthat removes just the binary
07:20.51brlcadso it will relink
07:21.17Z80-Boythe linker line for bwish begins with libtool is it what you want?
07:22.06Z80-BoyIf I run it without --silent, I see there is no -lc passed to the gc
07:22.07Z80-Boygcc
07:22.15Z80-Boy~pastebin
07:22.18ibotsomebody said pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
07:22.20brlcadmake LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool" LIBTOOLFLAGS=""
07:22.27Z80-Boy~pastebin.bz
07:22.57brlcad(which basically just removes the --silent)
07:23.02Z80-Boyhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6f867799
07:24.02brlcadokay, that's good
07:24.09Z80-BoyDo you need more information?
07:24.36brlcadcurious, yes
07:25.32brlcadgrep '\$' ../../config.log | head -1
07:26.03Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
07:26.29brlcadhave you modified your configure.ac file?
07:26.35brlcador did you set CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS?
07:26.47Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~/brlcad-vanilla/src/bwish$ echo $CFLAGS
07:26.47Z80-Boy-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium3 -pipe
07:26.54Z80-BoyCPPFLAGS are empty
07:27.14Z80-BoyI didn't change configure.ac myself. I maybe ran autogen.sh which I don't know if it changes configure.ac
07:27.17brlcadyeah, fyi that's no good for doing profile builds -- it can override
07:27.24Z80-Boyaha!
07:27.39Z80-Boydoes unset work like export?
07:27.45brlcadbut thats also not likely the -lc problem
07:27.49Z80-BoyOr does it unset just for one level of the shells?
07:28.21Z80-BoyI'll try it without the CPPFLAGS
07:29.14Z80-BoyCan you try the two raytraces on your installation?
07:29.19Z80-BoyDo you also get 1:210 difference?
07:29.39brlcadno, I really cannot try them right now
07:29.59brlcadthat's why I was asking you for the profiles .. you know, to save some time ..
07:30.36brlcadbecause that's all I'll be doing too anyways, I really don't doubt that it's slower
07:30.50brlcadthe question is just why and what if anything can be done
07:30.55Z80-BoyOK doing export CFLAGS=""
07:31.14brlcadwhat problem are you working on?
07:31.21brlcador what do you expect that to change? ...
07:31.36Z80-Boynow I am working on the logs you said
07:31.46brlcadso not the -lc issue
07:31.52Z80-Boyno
07:31.58brlcadokay!
07:32.16brlcadyou've got a lot of ADD tendancies sometimes.. :)
07:32.19Z80-Boyand now ./configure --enable-profiling --enable-debug --disable-optimized
07:32.30Z80-BoyAttention Deficiency Disorder?
07:32.44brlcaddeficit
07:32.59brlcador AD/HD
07:34.07brlcadi.e. focus on the task at hand ;)
07:36.18Z80-BoyWe can see that in a normal adult without ADHD, the glucose metabolism in the brain is so high that significant amounts of glucose are metabolised as far as 20 centimeters outside the head: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/Adhdbrain.gif
07:36.20brlcadanyways, so the next step, run that configure line, run make, install, run gprof with the -I options, capture output to file
07:37.01Z80-BoyOh they have a picture of the Hippocrites
07:37.29Z80-Boy"A marked decrease in academic skills such as reading, spelling, or math is common with children who have ADHD."
07:37.34Z80-BoyI had a marked increase
07:37.48Z80-Boyconfigure: error: `CFLAGS' has changed since the previous run:
07:37.56Z80-Boynow I should run make distclen?
07:38.12brlcadsure, but then you'll need to run autogen.sh again too
07:38.20Z80-Boythey say also rm ../../../../config.cache.openbsd4.0.kestrel.barix.local
07:38.24Z80-Boybut that doesn't work
07:41.54Z80-BoyAs with many conditions in the field of psychiatry, ADHD can be explained as a social construct
07:42.03Z80-BoyI don't have a disorder. They have a social construct ;-)
07:43.15brlcadyou just spent 10 minutes on a diversion, interleaved with two different sorts of code comments, .. and yet still claim to not have issues with getting distracted? :)
07:43.35Z80-BoyI have problems concentrating both in work and on my personal projects
07:44.05Z80-BoyThe only moment when I don't have problems concentrating is if I go to a skatepark, snowboarding or surfing
07:44.45Z80-BoyAlthough these activities are inherently very boring (just a repetitive motion), I don't have a problem there ;-)
07:45.35brlcadback in a while... look forward to seeing the reports if you can generate them ;)
07:46.02brlcadif anything even just seeing the profile of the slow one might help by itself at this point
07:46.10Z80-Boynow th econfigure passed because I deleted the cache
07:46.16brlcadas just mentioning calloc is very suspicious
07:46.31Z80-Boydid you see my comments about calloc possible to optimize?
07:46.46Z80-BoyIn one place you call calloc and then overwrite 99% of the buffer with data
07:46.49brlcadyeah, but they're pointless
07:46.58Z80-Boyso the calloc is used as a brute force method to add a terminator
07:47.03brlcadneed a profile that indicates that that is a calloc that matters in the least
07:47.04Z80-BoyIs it a code that is not executed often?
07:47.48brlcadthere's no need to guess whether it's executed often, no matter how educated you feel it may be -- that is exactly what a profilers is for
07:48.09brlcadin fact guessing is *usually* wrong and/or misleading
07:50.15brlcadit very well could be the calloc in question, or it could be from a completely different place in the code (more likely but not impossible that it's not)
07:51.37Z80-BoyHmm looks like I have ADHD
07:51.58brlcadthe profiler will conveniently tell us exactly where and how bad the code is called .. good stuff if leveraged
07:53.42Z80-Boywe just add more -E flags?
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08:12.05Z80-BoyHehe when I rename the brlcad directory to brlcad-profiling during make install then things go astray miserably ;-)
08:23.53Z80-BoyNow it says automake-1.9: ## Internal Error ##
08:24.11Z80-BoyUse of uninitialized value in string eq at /usr/local/bin/automake-1.9 line 4673, <GEN0> line 1.
08:24.33Z80-BoyHow do I cvs checkout fresh brl-cad?
08:24.55Z80-BoyOh it's documented I didn't really expect that
08:32.26louipcman I can't find detail specs on collets :( I wanted to draw some up
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09:30.40Z80-Boybrlcad: just got it
09:32.18Z80-Boysourceforget is slow
09:36.01Z80-BoyFirefox just hangs in the middle of scrolling and prints "loading data from <some damned ad site>"
09:38.23minute-sshSourceforge adverts are incredibly annoying, especially given the slow speed the site is at in general.
09:40.34Z80-BoyHow can I make my OS return 127.0.0.1 to www.google-analytics.com?
09:41.31Z80-BoyI have lookup file bind still it ignores an entry in /etc/hosts
09:43.38minute-sshIf it is really important you could set up your own DNS system.
09:44.01Z80-BoyI don't want to do that
09:44.07Z80-BoyI just want to know why OpenBSD is a piece of shit
09:44.24Z80-Boycause man resolv.conf says it should work with lookup file bind and I have this line in /etc/resolv.conf
09:44.24minute-sshHosts should work, but you might need to restart\reload something.
09:44.39minute-sshGoogle Analytics is slow indeed.
09:45.50Z80-BoyOK I'll reload the system
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09:54.19Z80-BoyHehe it works like charm
09:54.30Z80-Boy/etc/hosts:
09:54.32Z80-Boy0.0.0.0 google-analytics.com
09:54.32Z80-Boy0.0.0.0 ad.doubleclick.net
09:54.35Z80-Boy/etc/resolv.conf:
09:54.42Z80-Boylookup file bind
09:54.51Z80-Boybrlcad: put it into your system, you'll save truckloads of time!
09:55.01Z80-Boyand tell all friends!
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17:43.22nollanhey folks. i just discovered brlcad. i added it from freebsd ports w/o any problems, however when i run mged.sh it initialized and then detaches. but i get no windows..
17:44.44nollanany suggestions what i should do?
17:46.19yukonbobnollan: what does the mged.sh file contain? I just run an mged binary....
17:46.43louipcyeah I don't have an mged.sh on my system
17:46.59louipcbut I'm in linux and I built BRLCAD myself
17:48.12nollanyukonbob, it sets variables like path and brlcad home path.. then it runs mged binary
17:52.37louipctry inputting the commands without the script and see what happens
17:52.48nollanhow?
17:52.54nollan[frodo]-[/home/nollan]-$ /usr/local/brlcad/bin/mged
17:52.54nollanInitializing and backgrounding, please wait...Detached
17:52.54thing0magic
17:53.21nollanwhere should i put the commands?
17:53.37nollanthere is no window nor dialog boxes, nothing
17:53.44louipcyeah mged is supposed to detach
17:53.53yukonbobnollan: try running  a [s|k|p]trace on the binary and see what it shows...
17:54.31louipcnollan: try to give it a model on the command line maybe...
17:54.44nollanto open you mean
17:54.47louipcyea
17:55.10louipcthere's some in brlcad/share/db
17:55.23louipci'm not sure what the exact path would be on your system ...
17:55.32nollanok i'll try
17:55.39nollanktracing now
17:57.01nollanhmm how do i check the ktrace.out file for errors?
17:57.10yukonbobkdump | less
17:57.44nollanok
17:59.55nollanit says something about /etc/libmap.conf
18:00.30yukonbobnollan: maybe "kdump > mytmpfile" and post the results to a pastebin...
18:01.12nollanok, but it's huge
18:01.35yukonbob...then just that last relevant bits?
18:02.29yukonbobyou know what I mean when I say "pastebin" right? Don't flood this channel w/ a cut/paste...
18:03.03yukonbob~pastebin
18:03.04ibotfrom memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
18:03.15nollanhttp://pastebin.ca/735505
18:03.32nollansure i've used it before. lots of times..
18:03.46nollanmostrly for reading thou
18:05.40yukonbob? I can't see any signs that mged quit
18:06.07yukonbobps aux | grep mged
18:06.18nollani'm browsing throu it now and theres a lot of libraries not found...
18:06.27nollani guess it's a dependency issue
18:06.53nollanyeah it starts, but gives me no windows or dialogboxes
18:07.04yukonbobports should handle all that -- and mged would complain on the cmdline if it couldn't find what it wanted...
18:07.23nollank
18:07.36yukonbobthe 'not found' issues might be first (or second, etc) attempts to find what it's looking for, until it finds them later...
18:07.49nollanyeah. i guess
18:08.09yukonbobwhat window manager are you running?
18:08.11nollani didn't compile it thou -i pkg_add -r it
18:08.14nollanfluxbox
18:09.51yukonbobnollan: can you run bwish?
18:10.16nollandunno is it included in brlcad?
18:10.22yukonbobtry it and see ;)
18:10.35nollani got a dialog
18:10.36yukonbob(yes, it is part of brlcad)
18:10.42nollanand a window
18:10.53nollanand a bwish> - prompt
18:10.54yukonbobare you running Xinerama?
18:11.04yukonbob( or some dual-head monitor setup?)
18:11.09nollannope, never heard of it
18:11.15nollannope no dualhead
18:12.10nollanw8 i'll try a thing brb
18:20.30nollanit works now. i had to remove some options form xorg.conf
18:20.34nollanthanks
18:20.49yukonbobnice!
18:20.51yukonbobhave fun :)
18:21.08nollanthanks! i'm totally new..
18:21.10nollan:)
18:21.29louipcodd what options were those?
18:21.45yukonbobDontShowMged = YES
18:23.56nollanhaha ahh, experimental stuff.
18:24.40yukonbobpaste them here -- might come up again for somebody else...
18:24.49yukonbob"here" == pastebin ;)
18:24.54nollanpageflips agpmode depthmoves renderaccel
18:25.03yukonbobthat's it?
18:25.05nollanati driver
18:25.07nollanyeah
18:25.10yukonbobhrmm.
18:35.42nollanhowever when i load examples - they are all empty
18:36.25yukonbob'ls' to see lists of 'objects, regions, groups' ,etc, and 'e [somename]' to show it...
18:38.07yukonbobthere are a few .pdfs you'll be interested in -- a 3-page cheat for mged, and a Tutorial "Principles of Effective Modelling", esp...
18:38.09louipcnollan: if you load the file via command line then it should display automatically
18:40.02yukonbobnollan: ftp.brlcad.org/pub/BRL-CAD/Documentation
18:40.05louipcnollan: type tops in mged to see the top level parts of the model
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18:41.25nollanmged> load /usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g
18:41.25nollanError: couldn't load file "/usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g": /usr/local/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.8.2/db/demo.g: invalid file format
18:41.31louipcnollan: use draw or e in mged to display the objects
18:41.35louipc!!
18:42.25nollani guess i'm off to the docs
18:42.26nollan:)
18:42.52louipcyou're using a really old version too :P
18:43.06nollanok. that was the one in ports
18:43.17yukonbobnollan: what version is it?
18:43.28yukonboboh -- 7.8.2...
18:43.50nollanpkg_info | grep brl
18:43.51nollanbrlcad-7.8.2        CSG modelling system from the US Ball
18:46.40Z80-Boyoh yeah US Ball
18:46.52Z80-Boylet's play US Ball!
18:47.09yukonbobUS Ballroom Dancing Laboratory
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19:35.08brlcadheh, ball
19:35.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: include the intaval-g.py script in the dist
19:35.43brlcadZ80-Boy: hm, dunno what you changed, but those profiles are useless
19:35.51brlcadthey didn't have any numbers
19:37.20Z80-Boybrlcad: did you try to reproduce the rendering times?
19:44.10brlcadnollan: load isn't the right command, that's the command to load tcl/tk extensions
19:44.16brlcadopendb would be the command
19:45.23brlcadand brl-cad .g files are "multi-geometry" files with potentially many models per file, so there's no "default" object that will display when you open a .g file -- you can either use the geometry browser or run the "tops" command to see the top-level objects that you can display
19:46.30nollanah. right
20:04.16*** join/#brlcad luckyshot (n=lucky@CABLE-72-53-76-204.cia.com)
20:04.24luckyshotHey guys,
20:04.32luckyshotDoes anyone in here use UGS NX series?
20:25.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/fb/pix-fb.c): accept karel's sf patch 1802016, which provides a -p option to pix-fb causing the application to pause the specified number of seconds before exiting and closing the framebuffer.
20:27.25brlcadluckyshot: i've used it before
20:27.39brlcadthis is certainly not an nx support channel though ;)
20:28.10brlcadif you want to fund the same level that you give to UGS to BRL-CAD, then I'd be glad to help ya though ;)
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21:01.08luckyshotlol
21:01.26luckyshotbclcad, just wanted to know why nx5 files wont open in nx4
21:01.29luckyshotits very frustrating
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21:39.06``Erikerm, cuz the format changed?
21:39.16``Erikthey, uh, added shit?
21:45.34luckyshotfile format is the same
21:46.04``Erikthen why is it 5 instead of 4.1? :D *duck*
21:46.30``Erikthis ain't a unigraphics help channel, I've never used ug... tried installing it once, that's it:)
21:58.09brlcadif the format is the "same" then it's not an "nx5 file", it's something else .. they break compatibility just like most other major apps when there's a new major version
22:01.11luckyshoti guess
22:01.25luckyshotms word still is backwrds compatible with older versions
22:06.24brlcadonly to an extent
22:06.31brlcadyou can create new versions that are not
22:06.42brlcadword simply hasn't *had* a new release in years
22:07.25brlcadthey used to break compatibility all the time, 95 not working in 97, 2000 not working on either, etc
22:07.40luckyshotoh okay
22:08.00luckyshotis brl cad easy to use?
22:08.06brlcadnot really
22:08.17brlcadat least not until you've gone up the learning curve
22:08.22luckyshotnx4 and 5 are extrmely simple
22:08.27brlcadit's easy to use, but not easy to learn
22:08.29luckyshotare they of the same level of difficulty?
22:09.04brlcadgive it a try, some find it exceptionally familiar
22:09.17brlcadthe tutorial book on the website might give you an idea of what to expect
22:09.20luckyshotdefinitely
22:09.22luckyshotdoes it work in vista?
22:09.29brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
22:09.53brlcadonly one of brl-cad's 400+ tools, but one of the most prominent and with a gui
22:10.21brlcadI don't know that anyone has even tried under vista
22:10.33luckyshotok
22:12.25brlcadhowdy bob
22:13.18yukonbobbrlcad: hey -- what's shaking?
22:47.05brlcadhowdy yukonbob -- most of the cfd/fea tools are indirect or generic
22:47.27brlcadlike being able to extract a mesh of given geometry, or the Cubit exporter, or voxelization of geometry, etc
23:00.28yukonbobnote: anybody who posts links to images of havoc is subject to being banned from #brlcad...
23:00.46yukonbob;)
23:03.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeII.xml: Markup through Lesson 11
23:03.48poolio_Woah, has Irix disappeared?
23:04.55starseekerWouldn't that be an awesome tag line - BRL-CAD - able to simulate moon shots!
23:05.51yukonbobpoolio_: :) ... one day some time ago I threatened to reach through the internet and take his modem away if he posted another havoc image, and haven't seen another since...
23:07.11brlcadstarseeker: heh, is their .g support supposed to be for BRL-CAD or something else?
23:07.39brlcadvery possible they might have support for v4 .g format from interactions over a decade ago
23:07.39starseekerI'm sure it's for something else - I just noticed it in their list of "supported" file extensions
23:07.48starseekeroh, really?
23:08.01starseekerhuh - is there a v4 .g file around somewhere?
23:08.39brlcadrun dbupgrade -r on a v5
23:09.09starseekerrighto...
23:10.54starseekerInteresting...
23:11.09starseekerIt does add it as an object, but doesn't display anything
23:11.37starseekerSays it is a polygonal mesh with zero cells and zero points
23:17.34Z80-Boystarseeker: I guess they had, but they had to use a boolean operator and that made it 210x slower so they couldn't make it into the launch so they dropped it
23:18.21Z80-BoyOr they realized that when they mirror the foam, it gets 3 times as big and changes shape ;-)
23:18.23brlcadsounds like it's a busted parser
23:18.34Z80-Boybrlcad: sorry, just joking :)
23:18.41starseekerin paraview?
23:19.02brlcadZ80-Boy: I have the profiles done here now
23:19.08Z80-Boybrlcad: and the ratio?
23:19.10brlcad*with* useful results :)
23:19.12Z80-Boy1:210?
23:19.18brlcaddude, get over the ratio
23:19.24Z80-Boymore than 210?
23:19.38brlcadi already told you i didn't doubt that one is slower
23:19.58Z80-Boyman you'll become a hero for speeding up the U.S. Army development 200 times
23:20.05brlcadand it would be expected that it's a little slower, but not necessarily drasticly
23:20.21Z80-BoyThat's good
23:20.25brlcadtwo orders implies something else is wrong
23:20.30Z80-Boybecause now you can poke at it and don't have to ask me
23:20.51Z80-Boywhich function does consume it?
23:20.59brlcadit's not good, it means i'm not working on other things that are really begging for attention as well :P
23:21.28brlcadso no time was saved in the end
23:21.38Z80-Boywhich function did gprof say consumes the most?
23:21.38brlcadit doesn't help anyone for everything to be in my hands :)
23:22.02Z80-Boyis it calloc?
23:22.24brlcadI'd suggest working more with gprof yourself to get the answer to that, so next time you can generate the profile :)  somthing went wrong in those steps .. maybe an openbsd gprof problem
23:23.36Z80-Boywhich function is it?
23:24.43Z80-BoyI have to go sleeping if I don't want to be zombie tomorrow
23:24.44Z80-Boygood night
23:24.47brlcadcya
23:25.08brlcadhe can be a selfish lil punk sometimes
23:25.23brlcadgood kid, lots of good efforts, but impatient to no end
23:27.12brlcadno
23:27.14brlcadhell no :)
23:27.17brlcadnot yet at least
23:27.37yukonbob(that you know of)
23:27.45brlcadthey're not very productive to my coding and lifestyle habits right now, maybe in a few years :)
23:27.53starseeker"who needs kids when one has Z80-Boy on IRC"
23:36.28brlcadmmm.. lisp experience could certainly come in handy ;-)
23:36.51brlcadfor the new modeler, lisp was on my list of languages we need to support near the beginning
23:37.03brlcadsimply due to the autocad crowd
23:38.00brlcadprobably lisp and python for non-interactive; and tcl and bash for interactive
23:38.19yukonbobtcl inter + non-inter
23:38.27yukonbobsource "mycoolfile.tcl"
23:38.28yukonbob;)
23:38.39brlcadyeah, tcl is one of the few that can probably do both
23:39.12yukonbobthis talk of py/tcl/lisp* bring us back to the idea of SWIG
23:39.15starseekerDoing both is something I see more in research languages - they like the REPL prompts
23:39.16brlcadand not feel like ass in the process ;)
23:40.01brlcadyeah, but then the idea of an ml prompt make me shudder
23:40.07starseekerLisp is really good at it, given a good compiler - there are some amusing stories about early web servers in lisp where the devs would get a support call, fix it on the phone in the running image, and then ask the customer to do a page refresh :-)
23:40.26yukonbob*given a good compiler
23:40.42starseekerThere are a few.  Allegro I think is pretty good, and sbcl on the free side
23:41.03starseekerClisp is kinda dog slow, but has the advantage of running everywhere under the sun
23:41.56starseekerScheme is regarded as a type of Lisp
23:42.17starseekerScheme stays small and doesn't specify all that much - it lets extensions fight it out
23:43.08starseekerCommon Lisp is the opposite - it's a huge spec
23:43.11yukonbobstarseeker: right -- but if somebody is used to all the facilities of Common Lisp, scheme is not Common Lisp..
23:43.16yukonbob:)
23:43.21starseekerTrue :-)
23:43.28starseekerbut the core language principles are the same
23:43.40yukonbob(are (they (indeed)))
23:43.50starseekerScheme is "a lisp", Fortran most definitely is not
23:44.13yukonbobcould wait for Paul Graham to finish Arc.
23:44.16brlcadhm, so calloc didn't even make a blip on the profile
23:44.30starseekeryukonbob:  Only if you can code from the grave
23:44.37brlcadlooks like 98.9% of the extra time is spent doing the boolean evaluation, exactly like john said
23:44.42yukonbob?Is he dead
23:45.44brlcadyukonbob: a brlcad major mode would be freaking awesome :)
23:46.06starseekeryukonbob:  By the time Arc is done, you probably will be ;-)
23:46.13yukonbobstarseeker: haha
23:46.23brlcadthat'd be a great "summer of code" project :)
23:47.00starseekerEmacs has a lot of... erm... personality
23:47.28yukonbobbrlcad: one of first things I do in mged is "array set env [list EDITOR xemacs]"
23:48.11yukonbob... could skip that and just use xemacs -- that _would_ be very cool...
23:48.12brlcadhm, can't you just set env(EDITOR) xemacs ?
23:48.59yukonbobbrlcad: could "env EDITOR=xemacs mged", or set EDITOR in my .profile, sure...
23:52.13yukonbobheh: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ajwatson/cat-powered.gif
23:53.45starseekernow THAT'S hardcore ;-)
23:54.10brlcadyukonbob: no, I mean as tcl syntax inside mged
23:54.30brlcadis there any difference between "array set env [list EDITOR xemacs]" and "set env(EDITOR) xemacs"?
23:54.40brlcadi've never seen the array form
23:55.25yukonbobbrlcad: you're right...
23:56.00brlcadwasn't trying to be right, it's informative to me too :)
23:56.13yukonbobyou're still correct ;)
23:56.24yukonbobboth work
23:56.32brlcadwonder if there is any technical difference
23:56.56yukonbobre: emacs -- are you thinking of completely working from w/i emacs, and have it interface w/ rt?
23:58.04brlcadsure
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071014

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071014

00:00.47brlcadit could work in a variety of ways, like mged as a command environment (ala gdb mode) or as a simple geometry browser (ala tar mode), or something in between
00:01.18yukonbobpoolio_: always room for improvement...
00:01.38brlcadeveryone makes mistakes from time to time ;)
00:02.03yukonbob?Like hardcoding references to vim in mged <ducks>
00:05.53yukonbobbrlcad: re: cfd, fea -- are you saying conversion to mesh, and then analyze w/ some other tool (is that what paraview is good for?)...
00:06.21poolio_heh, I'd learn emacs but I like my pinky.
00:07.24yukonbobpoolio_: step 1. convert CapsLock -> Ctrl...
00:07.37yukonbobstep 2. ????
00:07.41yukonbobstep 3. Profit!
00:07.57poolio_But then how can I yell?
00:08.37poolio_Are there any recommended tutorials for emacs targeted for converting vim users?
00:09.23yukonbobpoolio_: what I did was just start using it...  Make a point of 1) Having it installed on your computer (!), 2) Trying it out when possible...
00:09.27brlcadyukonbob: heh :)
00:09.53brlcadhaving a forced concerted effort to learn it helps, along with a bindings cheat sheet
00:10.03yukonbobpoolio_: there's built-in help, and lots of online stuff... and honestly, switching the CapsLock->Ctrl isn't a bad idea...
00:11.01yukonbobpoolio_: are you a *nix user, or Mac, or Windows, or ????
00:11.03poolio_Yeah...but I work on a bunch of different machines (and mainly cluster machines) so it'd be a pain to re-map it every time
00:11.06poolio_*nix
00:11.30poolio_But I'm a student and my laptop died, so I have an old desktop and access to Windows/OS X/Linux machines
00:11.43poolio_I'm looking to invest in a new laptop (possibly getting a macbook if they're updated with Leopard)
00:13.45yukonbobholy smokes -- apples website is simpler than ever...
00:14.48yukonbobis leopard shipping?
00:18.03poolio_nope
00:18.10poolio_~oct 26
00:18.15yukonbobhrmm...
00:26.56yukonbobbrlcad: so re: cfd, fea -- am I right about the process?
01:08.17brlcadsorry, pizza arrived, had to eat it ;)
01:08.41brlcadyukonbob: yeah, for the most part .. if it's a code that requires a mesh format
01:08.45brlcad(most do)
01:10.12yukonbobso -- would one export the mesh from brl-cad, import to fea program, and then assign properites, attributes, etc, and run math on the model?
01:10.26yukonbobMmm... pizza
01:11.25yukonbob(of course, the longer I put it off, pizza will be on list, and move up list...)
01:12.02yukonbobfor instance, back to a house model, how can I take  CSG model from brl-cad and find out how much snow a roof can support?
01:17.41brlcadyukonbob: yeah, that's what is often done
01:18.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (7 files in 6 dirs): use fchmod() instead of chmod() to avoid race condition. quell flawfinder warning
01:18.45brlcadthat would be great engineering aspects to integrate into the geometric analysis facilities, but it's pretty far out given the state of the modeler right now
01:19.30yukonbob...and if it's already fairly portable between apps, that modularity is a positive, rather than integration...
01:50.07brlcadmm.. Quest for Glory
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04:17.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: use snprintf, quell flawfinder warning
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04:37.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (Makefile.am timercos.c): remove the old cray timer, required maintenance and not likely to be needed even if there's a cray that old still in service somewhere
04:38.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_sort.c: use the remaining length for strncat, print an error if it'd truncate. quell level 5 flawfinder
04:42.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/vdraw.c: don't need to make two calls, avoid strncat. quell level 5 flawfinder
04:45.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: missing stdlib.h, quell warnings
05:22.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/bench/pixcmp.c: delint
05:28.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (4 files in 2 dirs): add flawfinder to the regression suite (currently set to level 5 as there are too many unresolved at level 4) to keep an eye on new issues being introduced
05:31.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (8 files): emphasize the result if it's a failure
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08:02.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (22 files in 12 dirs): take care of a slew of level 4 flawfinder issues related to adding length parameters to string and i/o functions
09:09.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 6 dirs): more taking care of a slew of level 4 flawfinder issues related to adding length parameters to string and i/o functions
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10:08.17Tony_Alva_Edisonbrlcad: wohoo, you applied my almost useless patch to pix-fb :)
10:11.38Tony_Alva_EdisonIt's rt_booleval!
10:11.58Tony_Alva_Edisonmy openbsd gprof returned bullshit anyway - these functions weren't mentioned with significant numbers anyway
10:15.00Tony_Alva_Edisonwhat about rewriting                         *sp++ = treep;          /* temp val for guard node */ *sp++ = &tree_guard[resp->re_cpu];
10:15.13Tony_Alva_Edisonas sp[0]=treep; sp[1]=&tree_guard[resp->re_cpu]; ?
10:15.28Tony_Alva_Edisoncause the ++ causes a write into the pointer which could worsen stall conditions
10:18.14Tony_Alva_Edisonyeah and then of course sp+=2;
10:25.23Tony_Alva_Edisonor maybe grow_stack is called too many times which calls bu_realloc?
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20:17.49yukonbobhello, whirled
20:19.55yukonbob?what is libtclcad supposed to offer -- it looks like it's a glorified PATH statement (at first glance) to me....
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21:38.21brlcadyukonbob, glorified auto_path statement
21:38.53brlcadas well as a few other setup/initialization routines
21:39.21brlcadit's the start of moving the tcl-related interfaces out of the "core" libraries (libbu, libbn, librt) and moving them into one tclcad library
21:40.02brlcadthe base libraries ideally won't have any external dependencies in the long term
22:16.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (31 files in 8 dirs): more level 4 flawfinder issues. mostly string length clampages.
22:52.05*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
22:52.20yukonbobhello, whirled
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071015

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071015

00:08.20``Erik*yawrn*
00:11.04yukonbob~lart yawning
00:11.04ibotexecutes killall -KILL yawning
01:10.50*** part/#brlcad nollan (i=nollan@bnc.kostar.5kr.hos.egn.se)
01:25.13*** join/#brlcad jack|ass (n=jack@c-67-189-104-216.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
01:26.29jack|assIs there a list of prerequisites for BRL?  I'm trying to compile 7.10.2 and get an error about it expecting a specifier-quantifier-list before XVisualInfo in dm_obj.c.
01:26.41jack|assI do have the xutil-dev package installed though.
01:32.51``Erikthere are prereqs, btu most have the source included in src/other
01:33.10``Erikif you're getting an X11 error, it's probably a bug in our ocnifgure :(
01:33.59jack|assit looks like it's including the source. :-/
01:34.03jack|assthat's what I was afraid of.
01:36.35jack|assI'm looking for something kinda like autocad to do some simple modeling of a wooden project box.  BRL looks like it fits the bill.
01:36.36jack|assAH.
01:36.37jack|assgot it.
01:37.04jack|assthe configure script that it comes with was the culprit methinks.  I re-read the documentation and ran autogen to make it create one for my system.
01:37.51jack|assI wonder if removing the configure file by default to force people to run autogen might prevent people compiling from source from hitting that?
02:41.52yukonbob``Erik: you much details about the bwish command, specifically, what it offers over the typical wish?
02:42.30yukonbobs/you much/you know/
02:50.07brlcadit has the brl-cad built-in commands & libs preloaded
02:50.25brlcade.g. itcl/itk/iwidgets/... are all preloaded
02:50.35brlcadas well as some brl-cad-specific commands
02:50.41brlcadbu_brlcad_data .  for example
05:13.20yukonbobI'm looking at setting it up as a loadable module -- I've got it loading w/o error, but haven't exported the commands...
05:13.59yukonbobthat way I hope to be able to use the canonical wish/tclsh and have it Just Work(tm)
05:15.47yukonbob*where "setting it up" == setting up libtclcad
05:24.06*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch)
05:27.33brlcadcool, that's be awesome
05:28.16brlcadthe big one is automatically setting up autopath -- it needs to do that onload .. and to load it, though, it needs the auto_path :)
05:28.22brlcadinteresting to hear how you deal with that :)
07:20.50*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
07:55.52*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@195.37.106.60)
08:26.40Z80-Boybrlcad: is reverse perspective possible in BRL-CAD?
08:27.29Z80-Boyi. e. instead of shooting parallel rays (no perspective, isometric) or divergent rays (perspective), shooting convergent rays?
11:35.32``Erikthe rt front end doesn't have anything like that, but there's nothing stopping the libraries... just requires some code laid down :/
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12:19.22Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/doom0.jpg  http://www.rayforce.net/doom1.jpg  etc.  In case anyone is curious of the friendly and simple marriage
12:20.08MaloeranThanks Erik :)
12:20.24Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/doom4.jpg  Wedding cake, yar
12:20.50``Erikso you actually bothered with a ceremony instead of just eloping?
12:21.09MaloeranIt was somewhat required, but it lasts about 3 minutes
12:21.39``ErikI thought the US legal varient was just walking up to a counter and signing some paper and forking over $20
12:21.51MaloeranOh, we married in Montreal
12:22.30``Erikwhen my brother got married, they did a ceremony with a wiccan priestess at a haunted hotel, cuz they're nerds... then we threw 'em in the car and drove 'em by city hall and they walked in and walked out a couple minutes later legal, then off to pizza and beer O.o
12:22.40MaloeranThen we went to some nice chalet I had rented, with friends for the week-end
12:22.52MaloeranCute :)
12:23.02``Erikget this, they found a wiccan priestess and haunted hotel... in arkansas... that held their wedding on halloween.
12:23.08``Erikin arkansas.
12:23.15``Erikwithout any lynchings
12:23.17``Erik*boggle*
12:23.43MaloeranMmhm. I think things are a bit more strict in Montreal regarding what a legal marriage is
12:23.43Z80-BoyMaloeran: are you the guy in the pictures?
12:23.47``Erik(of course, the town is an "art town" with a big halloween tradition and major blgt turnout, the rednecks would've been outnumbered)
12:23.48MaloeranYes Z80-Boy
12:23.55``Erikyeah, I think mal is the one in the brown dress
12:24.07``Erikhahaha
12:24.28MaloeranWell you are in luck, this is not quite a "true" marriage :)
12:24.30``Erikcover your hiney, alexis, karel is lookin' for lovin' :D *duck*
12:24.40Z80-Boyalexis?
12:24.49MaloeranIn french, it's a male name
12:25.01Z80-BoyI know another guy called alexis and he's very cute
12:25.23``Erikyes, most masculine words in french are feminine in other languages *cough* O:-)
12:25.45Z80-BoyMaloeran: no worries, you obviously suffer from the women attraction syndrome
12:25.54``Erik(and in german, the feminine stuff is so masculine it has beards and well fucking beat your ass down)
12:26.03MaloeranWhat's that "syndrome" exactly, Z80-Boy?
12:26.10MaloeranOh nevermind, I get it
12:26.21Z80-Boywell it usually starts on the primary school with a preoccupation towards girls
12:26.30Z80-Boyand ends up in horrible things like marriage etc.
12:26.46Z80-BoyIt's so common they didn't even bother to put it into DSM-IV
12:27.02``Erikhum, I don't think marriage is so bad...
12:27.05MaloeranRight. I'm still a bit sleepy from that week-end... She actually managed to get me to drink quite a bit, for the first time in my life
12:27.11Z80-BoyThere are only 2 ways out of marriage - a divorce or death
12:27.23Z80-BoyMaloeran: I'm just joking...
12:27.39``ErikI even 'belong' to a local organization fighting for blgt rights for marraige, even though I'm straight *shrug*
12:28.41``Erikum, I'm sure if you'd go outside, you could find a boytoy pretty easily
12:28.43``Erik:)
12:29.16Z80-Boyyeah but I don't want a boytoy
12:29.17MaloeranI really don't know much on the topic, but I would assume that things should be fairly simple between two guys
12:29.31Z80-Boyyeah getting a guy for sex is quite easy
12:29.38Z80-Boyyou don't have to do anything for it at all
12:29.49``ErikI mean, I barely ever step out, and have been "up on" on too many women in the last couple years
12:30.08Z80-BoyI was once in a shower room in a swimming pool and it was end of the opening time and the showers were broken so I had to go from one to another to get the last bit of warm water
12:30.24MaloeranEh Erik, it's much rarer for me
12:30.32Z80-Boythere was another guy and when I got to him he misinterpreted it as a signal and tried to simply grab my dick
12:30.40MaloeranI think it's related to a complete lack of skills to "flirt" or whatever
12:30.56``Erikbetween that, 'world of warcraft', and getting upset at work and drinking myself fucktarded
12:30.59``Erikheh
12:31.00Z80-BoyFortunately my reflex was faste so he didn't manage to touch me
12:31.21MaloeranThat's a bit disturbing, Z80-Boy, way too quick and spontaneous
12:31.25Z80-BoyMaloeran: it's related to the simple skill of not being picky
12:31.55Z80-BoyMaloeran: but that's how it works between gays
12:31.59MaloeranI think it's mostly related to the fact that I don't meet new girls at all in my daily routine
12:32.06Z80-Boyif you like each other and want to have just sex there is no barrier
12:32.06MaloeranI see.
12:32.21Z80-Boyyou don't have to buy flower movie tickets dinners nothing
12:32.21``Erikyou can get that with girls easily enough
12:32.54``Erikthe risk is if you stick with 'em too long
12:33.00``Erikhit 'em and ditch 'em *cough* O:-)
12:33.08``Erikooh, 3some, nice
12:33.09Z80-BoyThe problem is I don't want just sex
12:33.15MaloeranNo Erik, I'm not going :)
12:33.20``Erik...
12:33.40``Erikso, uh, your wedding gift... is... to send your chick and her lesbo lover to a spa...
12:33.41``Erikum
12:33.45``Erikyou may've fucked up
12:33.46MaloeranAhah
12:33.51Z80-Boy``Erik: lol
12:34.28Z80-Boyand to do the "flirting" stuff... omg that's so boring
12:34.42Z80-Boytalking about nothing going to boring places like cafeterias..
12:35.18Z80-Boyor like going to gay student "evenings with dinner"
12:35.20MaloeranErik, again, this is mostly an arranged mariage ; we are close and very good friends, but not quite up to the "spouse" status except in the legal sense
12:35.35Z80-BoyYou have basically 20-30 quite intelligent gay students which are either too ugly or not intelligent enough
12:35.40``ErikI know, I'm just mockin' ya :D
12:35.46Z80-BoyPlus all of them are, without an exception, boring
12:35.49``Eriksorry, I've been drinkin' this morning *cough*
12:35.58Z80-Boytalk about politics, travel their studies and parents etc.
12:36.35MaloeranZ80-Boy, I actually greatly enjoy such times with my "wife"
12:36.39Z80-BoyMaloeran: so you don't have to care about if your bed frame is strong enough to withstand the dynamic load?
12:36.42*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-003-100.pools.arcor-ip.net)
12:36.59MaloeranZ80-Boy, probably not on a regular basis. Besides, I'm soon leaving for Australia for a month ( alone )
12:37.34MaloeranZ80-Boy, the things you describe are the foundations of friendship
12:37.46Z80-BoyMaloeran: doing boring stuff together?
12:38.12MaloeranIf you ever want something more than casual and brief encounters, you may want to explore the kind of activities that would lead to real friendship
12:38.21Z80-Boywhich are?
12:38.46MaloeranRestaurants, talking about a variety of topics, about any kind of activity done together?
12:38.52Z80-Boyomg
12:38.55Z80-Boybetter be alone there
12:38.59Z80-Boythen
12:39.09Z80-Boyanything but restaurants please
12:39.25MaloeranThen cook together
12:41.17Z80-Boythat needs a stove
12:41.22Z80-Boyand stove is usually in a flat
12:41.33Z80-Boyand it's not a good idea to stick untrusted people into your flat right?
12:42.56MaloeranI assume you generally have met the person once or twice before that point, but I don't really see a problem with that
12:43.01Z80-Boyand then I can imagine all the exchanges like "hey you left sticky spots on the kitchen floor", "the kitchen tiles are yucky", "you poured water on the bathroom floor", "you should sweep the living room", "there are black smudge marks on the balcony from your experiments" etc.
12:43.31Z80-Boyyou should turn the computer off overnight the fan sound is disturbing me...
12:44.42Z80-Boyyour electric home trainer is really crazy you should throw it into trash...
12:44.54Z80-Boyyou spend too much time on ronja development and too little time with me...
12:45.14Z80-BoyI want chairs like this and you want chairs like that...
12:45.45Z80-Boygood that gays at least don't have to have children
12:45.48MaloeranI don't think you'll receive comments like that just for inviting a friend to cook and eat together
12:46.08Z80-Boyno but I mean like in the relationship
12:49.05MaloeranFor some reason... I imagine it can be awkward to develop true friendship with guys, nothing more, when you are gay
12:49.36Z80-Boyno it's easy
12:49.50Z80-BoyI just can't find anyone who's both pretty and like a friend with me
12:50.07Z80-BoyI know loads of hetero guy who if they were gay and wanted me I would just jump on them
12:50.30Z80-Boyif they like computer electronics DIY etc. then it's fine
12:51.36MaloeranAh yes, the population pool to pick from is smaller
12:51.49Z80-Boyand everyone is camp and boring ;-)
12:51.53Z80-BoyI hate camp
12:52.01MaloeranSo do I Erik, but I think they all are the girlfriend of a friend :)
12:52.41``Erikand I have a few gay friends *shrug* there's no issue as long as both parties accept there's no romantic possibility
12:52.53Z80-BoyI was in a dance club and it was fun except that
12:52.56Z80-Boy- it was too loud
12:53.04Z80-Boy- there was smoke instead of air
12:53.11``Erikheh, I wear earplugs when I go to concerts  :( I'm lame
12:53.20Z80-Boy- the people looked like they are pretending they are having fun but they are actually dead bored
12:53.31``Erikand I get upset when they give me the guinness in a fucking plastic cup
12:53.32Z80-Boy- everyone looked like exactly the kind of personality I don't want
12:53.41MaloeranAhah Z80-Boy
12:53.51``Erikbut when ya got children jumping around like idiots, it's probably better to have plastic... broken glass ain't so fun
12:53.53Z80-Boy``Erik: no you just aren't recklessly abandon stupid about your health
12:54.24``ErikI d'no, I've managed to do a number on my health
12:54.52Z80-BoySkatepark is fun
12:54.53``ErikI cut off a finger, I rolled a car, I eat too much red meat and don't eat enough vegetables, I drink too much booze, I jam on my own guitar without earplugs...
12:55.00Z80-Boypeople there are not aggressive and they are helpful
12:55.07``Erikbut I have tenitis in my right ear from having tubes several times as an infant
12:55.09Z80-Boythey smoke but you don't have to breath the smoke
12:55.25``Erikso loud becomes physically painful in my right ear, when just loud in my left
12:55.32Z80-Boy``Erik: I have tenitis too and just from nothing
12:56.05Z80-Boyo rmaybe it's an actute life-threatening hypochondria
12:56.06MaloeranWhat's a tenitis? Wikipedia doesn't know, therefore it doesn't exist
12:56.10Z80-Boytinnitus
12:56.14Z80-Boyit's ringing in ear
12:56.29MaloeranAh, thanks
12:56.47Z80-Boythe ear has like acousto-neural resonant circuits which are tuned just below the oscillations and the gain is controlled by downward path from the brain
12:56.49``Erikmine sounds kinda staticky, almost like hearing your blood flow in your ear
12:56.54Z80-Boyif the control signal is wrong it starts oscillating
12:57.04``Erikand it's really set off by the frequency that vaccuum cleaners happen to emit
12:57.09Z80-Boyafter you get drunk when you are exhausted when you don't sleep enough when you damage the ear etc.
12:57.32Z80-BoyBut it makes sense. Every sensitive amplifier ends up producing noise
12:57.36``Erikand only in the right ear :/
12:57.55Z80-Boy``Erik: I have a crosstalk between the right jaw muscle and right ear
12:57.55``Erikwhich actually sucks, cuz earbuds for phones are geared for the right ear
12:58.04MaloeranErik, do you practice any physical activity on a regular basis? That would do much good too
12:58.17Z80-Boyif I tighten my jaw I hear quite strong tinnitus in right ear - like TV running, high pitch noise etc.
12:58.27``Erikyes, I frequently do weight lifting. My forte is the 12 oz curl.
12:58.39Z80-Boylol
12:58.40``Erikthough I've been heavy on the 1.5 oz lift
12:58.46MaloeranThat's... a start, I think :)
12:59.08Z80-Boy``Erik: weight lifting is useless - I did it and I didn't get any boyfriend from that
12:59.19Z80-BoyThe problem is not that they don't want me. The problem is I don't want them.
12:59.30``Erikhum, may be a cultural skew here...
12:59.34Z80-BoyMaloeran: OMG my heart would probably explode in a nuclear detonation
12:59.45``Erikif I said "pint curl", would it change the meaning for you?
13:00.10Z80-Boy``Erik: at least you don't pretend yourself you want to spend the whole life in a gym to make sure your body would look nice in the coffin
13:00.30``Erikmuscle needs upkeep, or it turns to fat
13:00.47``Erikand I've always had a LOT more respect for gymnast muscles than body builder muscles
13:01.00MaloeranZ80-Boy, I hope not all your activities are about "getting a boyfriend"
13:01.01``Eriknot much to look at, but the performance through the range is damn impressive
13:01.05Z80-Boy``Erik: don't worry the undertaker can cutt your beer belly off with a chainsaw if the coffin lid timber should break through
13:01.12``Erikheh
13:01.33``ErikI'm 68 kg, I can fit in the pine box.
13:01.34Z80-BoyMaloeran: no - I figured out getting a boyfriend requires sacrificing more fun that an estimated fun outcome
13:01.56MaloeranBeing in good physical shape makes you feel much better, it's a matter of chemistry, it's not related to your appearance or what other people think
13:02.10Z80-Boyyeah but feeling better doesn't get me a boyfriend
13:02.36MaloeranNice Erik, I would have assumed more than 68kg ( no offense meant ). I'm 64kg
13:03.19Z80-BoyMaloeran: at least you don't have to mount a double skateboard deck on the trucks
13:03.29``Eriklast time I went to the jungle gym, I got on the bench and was able to push 130 lbs several times, so I don't feel too terrible about my shape
13:03.57MaloeranYes, probably so
13:04.01``Erikbut less dense... more fat, less muscle :D
13:04.10Z80-BoyI went to a gym and then I was cleaning the heating pipes and I thought my hand falls off and I lose consciousness
13:04.20MaloeranI think so too :). I can do one arm pull-ups for example, too much wall and rock climbing
13:04.21Z80-BoyI mean all those bicepses and tricepses are absolutely useless
13:04.33Z80-BoyWhen you want to do real work you feel like a cripple anyway
13:04.43``Erik"cleaning the heating pipes"? um, ... if that's not a double entendre...
13:04.48``ErikO:-)
13:04.54Z80-Boylol no
13:05.16``Erik<-- cannot do a 1 arm pullup or lift
13:05.22Z80-Boythere was some sticky oily stuff on it probably the heating liquid
13:05.25``ErikI don't think so, anyways
13:05.36``ErikI mean, last time I tried, I was only benching like 70lbs
13:05.46Z80-BoyIf I go to gym and train bicepses the result is exactly as if I don't train them
13:05.51MaloeranErik, as long as you can at least pull up with 2 arms.. :)
13:05.57Z80-BoyI can lift always only the same weight the same amount of times
13:06.08MaloeranZ80-Boy, lifting weight is boring, try wall and rock climbing
13:06.09``ErikI'm a lot stronger now than when I actually exercised, for some strange reason
13:06.25``Erikbut I lack the endurance I used to have, especially cardiovascular
13:06.25Z80-Boy``Erik: as long as you are able to topple over into a coffin, you are in an acceptable physical shape ;-)
13:07.14``ErikI used to run a 2 mile track and do some aggressive greenway biking
13:07.15Z80-Boy2 mile omg my heart would probably explode
13:07.15``Eriknow I mostly move couches and tables to clean
13:07.15Z80-Boymy anaerobic threshold is after 50 metres
13:07.34MaloeranThat... could be improved
13:07.37``Erikz80: run it slow and keep going...
13:07.42``Erikwalk if needed
13:07.56``Erikbut do a distance, and do it slow... build up speed over time
13:08.11``Eriksprinting 50m and stopping is useless :D
13:08.50Z80-BoyIf I took a computer with me I could even maybe convince myself to continue
13:08.55Z80-Boystrap a laptop on my neck...
13:09.00``Eriky'know, I bought running shows intent on tackling the greenway I freakin' live on... but I've more or less burnt them out as casual wear
13:09.02Z80-Boythen it could even be non-boring :)
13:09.23``Erikum
13:09.39``ErikI soemtimes think code
13:09.48Z80-Boygood idea
13:09.53``Erikif I spend more time typing than thinking, I'm using the wrong language
13:10.01MaloeranI find it very hard to think when doing any intense physical activity
13:10.02``Erikor working on the wrong problems
13:10.15``Erika light jog isn't too intense... :D
13:10.23``Erikor bike riding
13:11.02``Erikwhen I was on the trail, I could push up to 30mph and still have free cycles... it was when I was off road that I needed to focus...
13:11.18``Erikgoing down hills that actually threw the rfeakin' chain off the derailer
13:11.33``Erikanother car door and stitches? :>
13:11.39MaloeranShe's dangerous emotionally and profesionally to me, but it seems even physically
13:12.00MaloeranEh no, I was distracted and bumped through a big hole I didn't see
13:12.08``Erikheh
13:12.21``Erikbut not 'stop the front wheel' big?
13:12.34``Erikjust 'bust the boys on the seat' big?
13:12.40MaloeranNot quite, but enough to lose balance when you aren't expecting that kind of bump
13:12.59MaloeranEspecially with just one hand on the handles...
13:13.54MaloeranTsk! Pointing left to show the way to go :)
13:14.40``Erikyeah, uh
13:14.43``Erikwords are good, too.
13:15.13MaloeranWe went to try fancy wedding dresses for almost 2 hours that day, although she finally decided against the idea, and dresses casually at the wedding as you could see
13:15.22Maloeranand dressed*
13:15.43``Erikyeah, heh
13:15.50``Eriknudists have it figured out. I'm envious. :D
13:17.13MaloeranAh :)
13:17.31``Erikis... that... a... pig? ...
13:17.42``Erikand a goat?
13:17.43``ErikO.o
13:17.44MaloeranYup!
13:18.02MaloeranWe wanted to do horseback riding during the week-end, but it looks like we should have made a reservation
13:18.25``Erikand a slew of landscapes
13:18.29MaloeranSo we went rock climbing on easy tracks without any gear
13:18.35``Erikannnndddd it ends
13:18.57``Erik18 pics, half landscape... lame :)
13:19.03``Erik</haxx0r>
13:19.23MaloeranAh :). She doesn't like me taking pictures of her
13:19.50``Erikand no nudies of the girl
13:19.53``ErikO:-)
13:22.10``Erikopposed to cmd 2>&1 > file
13:24.08``ErikI'm annoyed at how autoconf subconfigure re-tests a lot of boilerplate shit instead of using a cache file
13:25.22``Erikheh
13:25.40``Eriksorry
13:25.54``Erikupdating the fbsd port of bugle... it does a subconfig
13:28.13``Erikso, uh, mal... for data manip, you'd take C over compiled lithp?  O.o
13:29.41``Eriklithp pairs with gc give you the ability to do any data structure trivially... at C speeds with the right compiler... O.o
13:30.23MaloeranI would take C over anything, for flexibility and performance. Other languages might be more convenient, but my very high comfort with C makes it very difficult to beat
13:30.37MaloeranPerhaps if I had as much experience with Lisp as with C, I would use it more
13:30.46``Erikah,  but if you always take the most comfortable option
13:30.50``Erikhow will you ever grow?
13:31.43``Eriknow I'm no lithp guru, I'm more into scheme in that vein... but when I see a problem that cl looks.. right... I won't dismiss it otu of hand
13:32.03MaloeranOh, I explore other options, but I'm not convinced that Lithp would be more appropriate than C, even if I was as fluent with both
13:32.04``ErikI have to admit, I saw a problem where I thought ruby was optimal... but I was wrong.
13:32.13MaloeranEheh
13:32.16``Erikat 95%, I was seriously feeling like scheme would've been far better
13:32.44``Erikprobably fixable issues, but they were all minor gotchas
13:33.00``Erikand I got ok results in a fraction of te time that just the book keeping in C would've taken :)
13:33.52``Erikand over the last couple of days, I've been looking at a program that I'd originally written in scheme, then re-wrote in C
13:33.59``Erikand I'm wondering if I made a mistake in doing that
13:34.07``Erikand I should quit starting lines iwth and.
13:34.37``Erikperhaps if I were more familiar with something like glib....
13:35.01``ErikI'm tired of re-writing a linked list module. or tweaking one I carry from elsewhere
13:35.26MaloeranI have always reused that piece of code for 5 years, never needed tweaking
13:35.44``Erikand I'm repulsed by the blind cast linked list style
13:36.02``ErikI tried to kill it in BRL-CAD, but lee whined and said it wasn't really an issue
13:36.03MaloeranTsk! I love void pointers and memory addressing magic
13:36.14``ErikI watched freebsd go through serious pain to eliminate it from the kenrel
13:36.46``Erikwhen it's right, it's ok... but it lends itself to a miscast which can seg or bus out
13:37.14``Erikand I'm so damn perfect at coding that I know I'm not perfect at coding, pheer the zen.
13:39.56``Erikaight dudes, ponder...
13:40.10``Erika huge csg type tree/graph... tons of ors up top
13:40.25``Erikfinding a subset that is mostly ands with some ors...
13:40.38``ErikI'm thinking the first cut would be reduction
13:41.02``Erikmake a copy of the tree with everything not in te needle eliminated from the haystack
13:41.21``Erikthus reducing the search space significantly  in O(n)
13:41.26``Erikthoughts?
13:42.16MaloeranWhat's the big picture of the problem?
13:42.36``Erikum
13:43.01MaloeranI don't really get "finding a subset" part
13:43.51``ErikI have 8 zillion standardized minimal primitive parts (bolts, plate, etc)... I have this THING, made out of parts a and b and (c or d), what possible shelf component am I looking at, give me a minimal list of possibilities
13:45.13``Erikdoes that clear  up what problem I'm thinking about? :)
13:46.00``ErikI think linear elimination is the best first whack
13:46.17``Erikfollowed by a more additive method (mebbe even brute force)
13:46.33``ErikI'd love to know why I'm wrong O.o :D
13:46.55MaloeranI would have to know quite a bit more about how you associate the THING's parts to the 8 zillion parts, and how the latter are organized... It may take a while to explain, and you probably have it mostly figured out
13:47.22``Erikok, the primitive parts are as minimal as you can get
13:47.36``Erikin csg land, we can admit that they're, say, brlcad primitives
13:47.49``Erikcylinders, spheres, torii, even bots
13:48.16``Erika standard, say, radio... contains a certain subset of those parts
13:48.58``Eriknow I have a random thing made up of low level parts... but I don't know what the thing is.... is it a radio? a wheel? I don't know... what's the minimal list for a human to choose from for what it could be?
13:49.08``Erik(ignoring fully tesselated geometry)
13:49.31``Erik(this is transliterated, of course... I'm not REALLY thinking about BRL-CAD geometry, it's my day off ;)
13:49.53MaloeranI got that part :)
13:50.25``Erikan alternate approach would be if I was dorking with electronics, and wanted to make a circuit... I have a list of parts available, what's the set of possible circuits I could make
13:51.04MaloeranThinking
13:51.23``ErikI've thought, I think the first cut using elimination is ... probably optimal
13:51.42``Erikassuming it cuts 10,000 to 100
13:51.59MaloeranThe question really is how to organize the 8 zillion parts for search to be quick
13:52.18``Erikyes, I've thought about sorting to help cut
13:52.32``Erikbut I still think cut is the best first notion, generating a subtree
13:52.32MaloeranI would opt for a graph with many different kind of links between nodes, but there are many variations possible on the details
13:52.39MaloeranA tree, really?
13:52.45``Erikwell
13:52.45``Erikdag
13:53.04``Eriksorry, I'm used to dags being reduced to trees
14:02.22MaloeranContributions have to be checked and validated, somehow
14:02.25MaloeranOops.
14:09.37brlcadMaloeran: ehehe .. you look rather nervous there
14:09.47``Erikuh
14:09.54``Erikdude, do ya blame him? he got married O.o
14:10.28Maloeran:) Ahah
14:10.36MaloeranI think I was a bit nervous, yes
14:22.34brlcadespecially since she's staring intently at you, and at least in those pictures you're intently NOT looking at her :)
14:22.41``Erik*snrkt*
14:23.01brlcadclassic "pretty girl is making me nervous" look
14:23.06``ErikI didn't really notice that
14:23.07``Erikhehehe
14:23.24``Erikbut in 0 and 1, yeah
14:23.38MaloeranI didn't notice either! But it makes sense, she asked that we face each other
14:24.10``Erikoh yeah, um
14:24.22MaloeranAhaha
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15:08.05brlcadmailbox .. almost .. cleaned .. out ..
15:20.59``Erikheh
15:50.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: don't blather the error message if the display cannot be opened. cleanup the logic a bit too to print a message if a detected type being tested for validity simply wasn't available during compilation.
15:52.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/libdm/query.c: merge dm_bestXType fix in from head, this should quell the failure warnings that the m2 folks are seeing.
15:56.09TommyLee``Erik: is it something classified?
15:56.29brlcadmeh, they're a public influential customer -- for an issue like that it doesn't matter
16:15.09``Erikthey work in classified land, but technically they're not classified...
16:15.28``ErikI'm just a puss when it comes to that stuff...
16:43.14``Erikeh
16:43.17``Erikheh
16:43.18``Erik<PROTECTED>
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17:38.04*** join/#brlcad Mark____ (n=chatzill@stemcell.med.utoronto.ca)
17:39.20Mark____hello, n00b alert, sorry - anyone there?
17:41.14Mark____anyways, I'm using BRL-CAD on windows, trying to make a gasket for standard biotech well plates. It works fine initially, but trying to facetize or convert to .STL format (the end goal, so I can print some objects) seems to become exponentially slower with the number of objects involved.
17:41.20``ErikNO
17:42.03``Erikthe csg -> nmg conversion is something like O(n^3) bceause it attempts to preserve solidity
17:44.07Mark____I am working with 96-well plates, and each well has a core volume, a countersink, a raised rim and one or two other bits, and it basically just doesn't work, it crashes before completing the conversion - is there any way around this problem?
17:45.04Mark____(BTW I may be missing something obvious, I am very new at this e.g. about 1 week)
17:52.16``Erikconversion? also, in cvs head, "clone" now works on v5 db's...
17:53.08``Erik"basically just doesn't work" isn't terribly descriptive
17:58.28Mark____sorry, I am also new to the vocabulary around this :) ... I have made the geometry I want as CSG, but I need to make an STL file so I can print the object. Unfortunately, as there are 96 * 4 minimal objects plus the common base block, whenever I try to convert to .STL format, (or just facetize the thing) I get (OBJ1 u OBJ2) and ((OBJ1 u OBJ2) u OBJ3) etc very quickly, but then it gets up...
17:58.30Mark____...around (((((((....)...)...)...)..) u OBJ 50) and gets slower and slower and slower - I would estimate the tesselation (is that the right word for this?) would take days if not weeks to complete
18:01.07Mark____PS I didn't understand the "clone" reference - is that another way to make the objects so that it only tesselates them once and then copies afterwards?
18:24.18``Erikit will be very very very slow, and the (()) stuff is related to tesselation, it's not necessarily bad
18:25.08``Erikclone is if you have an object and if you want many more (a deep copy, even), it'll do it... that's something I just fixed in the last week or two :)
18:33.47Mark____OK, thanks - so just so I'm clear on this, there is basically no way around this and I will just need to bite the bullet and burn a lot of CPU cycles - is that accurate?
18:35.57Mark____also - would it be a Bad Thing if I were to try to fake it by tesselating one object and then making a script to duplicate that 96 times (with modified XY coords) in the STL file?
18:54.34``Erikyes, nmg will take some monsterous cpu.
18:54.55``Erikseriously O(n^3)
18:55.06``Eriksorry :(
19:42.53Mark____OK, thanks. How do people deal with this issue in industry etc? Is it a general CAD limitation, or something specific to BRL-CAD / CSG modelling?
20:19.37Mark____also, what does the n in O(n^3) refer to? triangles, or CSG primitives? e.g. is there any way to fool it by segmenting the part and somehow combining the segments at the end?
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20:39.42brlcadawesome, the new canon scanner does a pretty good job .. and fast
20:40.06brlcadmight actually have sharable pdf's of the STEP standard before the end of the week
20:41.07brlcadMark____: it's a general CAD limitation for the most part
20:41.39brlcadthe O(n^3) refers to the amount of effort it takes to continually re-guarantee that the object that will result from the facetization process is, in fact, still a solid geometry object
20:42.10brlcadand that limitation is predominantly BRL-CAD specific, a inefficiency detail of the implementation approach
20:44.24brlcadbreaking the tessellation task up into multiple object will save you loads of time, there are probably a few other "work-around" methods too, but letting it burn the cpu cycles is probably the easiest approach -- anything else is likely going to be manpower cycles that are more than the cpu cycles
20:45.07brlcadnothing wrong with tessellating one object and duplicating it -- you can do that inside brl-cad too, run 'facetize' command, then clone/copy the object N times
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20:48.46Mark____OK, I will try that - once it has facetized an object though, does it re-tesselate it for the STL conversion, or just use the same triangles it has already made?
20:50.06``Erikno, nmg gives bots, the bots are spewed to stl
20:54.46Mark____also, what is the best way to select an object from the command line? I am having trouble with the Build Pattern tool (Error: invalid command name "pattern_control"), so I have resorted to little scripts, but I can't figure out how to select and copy from the command line
20:56.42CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r274 10/trunk/ICPA/: Start the project
20:59.36Mark____OK, I have to go offline for a bit, thanks very much for your help! - Mark
21:07.25CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r275 10/trunk/ICPA/ (14 files in 7 dirs): stubs.
21:25.14CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r276 10/trunk/ICPA/ (10 files in 5 dirs):
21:25.14CIA-4libirc: initial engine stub
21:25.14CIA-4libirc: VC71 build system
22:45.00CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r277 10/trunk/ICPA/ (9 files in 6 dirs): stubs for the 4 main components.
22:52.09CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r278 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: ++ the copy of the iterator, not the one we are copying
22:52.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/gqa.sh: exit, not return
23:40.32CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r279 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (4 files): make sure all the erase functions don't assume a returned iterator, and do a proper iter increment.
23:53.03CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r280 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (IRCClient.cpp IRCServer.cpp): do reverse order deletion instead of iteration for vectors.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071016

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071016

00:01.41CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r281 10/trunk/libirc/src/ (IRCClient.cpp IRCServer.cpp TCPConnection.cpp): why do finds ourselves when STL provides a nice way to do them.
00:04.36CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r282 10/trunk/ICPA/ (inc/ include/ include/common.h): include not inc
00:05.35CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r283 10/trunk/ICPA/MSVC/VC71/ (ICPA_Common.vcproj ICPA_Engine.vcproj): include not inc
00:28.19*** join/#brlcad Mark____ (n=chatzill@d36-202-98.home1.cgocable.net)
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02:36.12CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r284 10/trunk/ICPA/ (9 files in 3 dirs): common utills that will be needed
02:36.33CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r285 10/trunk/ICPA/ (include/common.h src/common/common.cpp): OS independent sleep function
02:37.09CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r286 10/trunk/ICPA/ (4 files in 2 dirs): agent classes for handling server transactions.
02:51.07CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r287 10/trunk/ICPA/src/engine/ (agents.cpp agents.h): init server networks from the config files for each agent.
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05:03.09CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r288 10/trunk/ICPA/MSVC/VC71/ (4 files): use separate debug dirs for each module, so the PDBs work out
05:16.16CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r289 10/trunk/ICPA/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): whitespace
05:32.17CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r290 10/trunk/ICPA/ (8 files in 2 dirs): whitespace
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13:27.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac doc/Makefile.am doc/book/Makefile.am): add the new docbook documentation to the dist
14:08.22``Erikbleh
14:16.58``Erikdork
14:18.54``Erik*vgr    vgr2.brl.mil    1.15    1.03    .92     .92     .86     .97    
14:54.30brlcadwhat frequency is that?
15:06.43``Erik400 kips
15:06.49brlcadwhat were the other two?
15:07.05``Erikum, one of 'em was 330
15:07.41``Erikthe one that's closer to 1 vgr was 345... the deviance in this is concerning
15:08.08brlcadyeah, sounds like external can affect the vm
15:08.45``ErikI dunno if it's external stuff impacting... the machine has been pretty much dedicated to the vm
15:08.56``Erikit might be unimpressive timing code in the throttle
15:09.28brlcadmaybe, but that's a pretty big swing of a difference
15:09.48brlcad345 -> 1.05  && 400 -> 0.97
15:11.13brlcad380 should be spot on if it's not influenced
15:11.43brlcadremember what 330 was?
15:30.33``Eriklike .87
15:30.53``Erikthat 345 kips has a higher vgr than 400 is wrong.
15:30.56brlcadoh, wrong way :)
15:31.33``Eriksupersampling and averaging might give okish results, but this shit just ain't consistent
15:32.17``Erikuh
15:32.31``Erikdid you get the latest clone stuff from adam or whoever at gsi?
15:32.33brlcadfor a benchmark run that takes several hours to run, shouldn't have to supersample/average it
15:32.45brlcadlatest clone stuff?
15:32.52``Erikdwayne claims a -c flag that has never existed in the version we have int he repo
15:33.14``Eriklooks like the import was in '05
15:33.48brlcadwell, dwayne got the old sgi drives from adam, and they were the only copies that he knew of at the time that remained of that code
15:34.20``Erikthere're several discrepencies between what dwayne remembers and what is in there
15:34.24brlcadI have the whole data dump of the drives that I pulled, I can search for other copies, but I recall doing that search already for clone and finding the one I started with
15:34.40``Eriklike having multiple numbers in the part name, when the line is
15:34.41``Erik<PROTECTED>
15:34.43brlcadi don't doubt that there might have been more work, but we simply don't have that code
15:34.57brlcadi'll check again
15:35.22``ErikI could see if dwayne will call up adam to sort this out
15:35.59brlcadprobably easier to just rewrite the -c option
15:36.41``Erikyeah, I told him that if I'm gonna do that, I'll want to sit down with him and get a formal grammar so it can be done right
15:37.22``Erikhe also is annoyed at the increment behavior, I guess we got an old version :) *shrug*
15:39.22brlcadhowso, what'd he want?
15:39.38brlcadthere's an increment param, just increments the number it finds at the end iirc
15:40.00``Erikyeah, he wants the primitives to step with increment size, but the combinations to always increment by one
15:40.15brlcadah, huh
15:40.24``ErikI can forward the email if you want
15:40.28brlcadsure
15:41.15brlcadlooking through even the cvs repo that he had, "a:b:fhi:m:n:p:r:t:v" is the longest form of the getopt line, and none have a 'c'
15:41.24``Erikit's kinda hard to read, I use the unix reply style with the > prefix and interspersed comments... he tried the style, but didn't get the prefix
15:41.47``Erikyeah, I looked through the file history, it never existed in the line we have... if we got a copy before it was implemented and forked, that'd explain a lot
15:41.58brlcadi mean in adam's cvs
15:42.01``Erikoh
15:42.02brlcadhe had his own going
15:42.28brlcadi think this drive was just an older copy to start with
15:42.39``Erikwhat's the latest date on his repo?
15:42.42brlcadbut regardless, he did say that it was the only copy remaining that he had when we got it
15:42.55``Erikhrm
15:43.03``Eriklost work, bummer
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15:44.23brlcad2000.07.25.20.27.48 is the last version
15:44.49brlcadmeh, trivial work, we were really really lucky to get the drives that we did
15:45.10brlcadit was *just* an old sgi drive chassis, no box, no connectors
15:45.28brlcadkermit fortunately had some connectors, we hooked it up to his O2
15:45.30brlcadbut then it didn't work
15:45.36``Erikheh, wow
15:45.38brlcadso we took it apart
15:45.48brlcadsmacked the drives up a bit
15:45.55brlcadput it back together, then it worked
15:46.20brlcadmounted up the drives, pulled the data off, prayed that it didn't burst into flames in the meantime
15:47.18brlcadthe drives hadn't spun up in about 4 years from what I could tell
15:47.19``ErikI had a 1.6g pata that I had to take apart and dork with (arm was hitting the platters), without a cleanroom... crossed my fingers while copying all the data off of it :)
15:47.52brlcadso we did get a mini goldmine, luckily
15:48.23brlcadthere's about four other "useful" code modes that should be imported/updated at some point, as well as about a half dozen interesting models
15:53.26``Erik:/ I shoulda called in, my stomach hurts like a mofo
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16:11.33brlcadoff drives that were themselves about 7 years old back then
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16:35.18starseekerHeh - reminds me of the story about how they recovered the early usenet archives - IIRC they stuck the tapes in the freezer for a while before reading them
16:36.40starseekerI think MIT has some issues like that as well, recovering early code and thesis work...
17:05.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/Cubit/g-sat.cxx:
17:05.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: update to the latest API changes where create_body_from_surfs() seems to have
17:05.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: chnaged to create_solid_bodies_from_surfs() in the GeometryModifyTool class.
17:05.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: looks like it just changed to return a list of bodies instead of one body, so we
17:05.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: iterate over the bodies. this is entirely untested, but seems right according
17:05.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: to the docs at https://svn.mcs.anl.gov/repos/ITAPS/cgm/trunk/geom/
17:18.12CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r291 10/trunk/ICPA/DESIGN: add the DESIGN notes that come from a good nights sleep
18:18.35yukonbobheh: "This is entirely untested, but seems right..."
18:41.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl: add firefox to browser list for help->manual
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19:45.03``Erikhttp://koutuk.blogspot.com/2007/10/when-life-becomes-good-for-programmer.html
19:49.59MinuteElectronnice
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20:14.14brlcadheh
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20:55.26``ErikO.o http://www.annexia.org/_file/jonesforth.s.txt
21:12.46MaloeranThat language would still be rather slow to run
21:15.37yukonbobiirc, FreeBSD uses Forth to help boot itself...
21:22.44CIA-4libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r292 10/trunk/ICPA/ (3 files in 2 dirs): setup to connect to the IRC server
21:28.08``ErikI don't think it does anymore, but it used to
21:29.10``Erikoh, n/m, it still has ficl in it heh
21:36.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h:
21:36.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: prevent crashing on a whole slew of cases where we end up iterating over either
21:36.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: a null, uninitialized, or malformed list item. the current for loop while
21:36.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: condition has to be non-NULL in order to do the next iteration, so make sure of
21:36.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: it. this prevents a crash that was detected in the display geometry object
21:36.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: (where it had unitialized data).
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22:32.23louipcdo you think `man brlcad` should be changed to reflect the current installation?
22:32.39louipcin the FILES section at the end?
22:52.52brlcadoh, maybe already removed
22:53.09louipcoh haah I don't have cvs installed
22:53.19louipcI have to do that. I got several crashes :/
23:43.44Z80-Boybrlcad: sounds like you've found a serious bug
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071017

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071017

00:08.12brlcadnot really
00:08.58louipcis it possible to make a helix in BRLCAD?
00:09.03brlcadwasn't a serious bug, only rears its head when you write *other* code that is already wrong .. that was just a sanity check that should always be true
00:09.46brlcadlouipc: ahhh, you're not the first to ask that ;)
00:09.51brlcaddepends what kind, some yes
00:10.03brlcadothers, not so easy
00:11.09louipcsomething like a sph traversing along the length of a rcc and subtracting it's path
00:11.31brlcadyou can generally make one in one of a couple ways, using half-torii patterned up, or using the pipe primitive -- which of course limits the shape of the helix
00:11.54brlcadyeah, either torus or pipe effectively will give you that shape
00:12.23louipcoh patterned up I see
00:12.24brlcada torus is representable as a swept sphere
00:12.30louipcI'll have to experiment
00:17.39louipcdo you think it would be possible to draw something like this in BRLCAD? http://www.friotherm.com/impeller.jpg
00:21.37brlcadyeah, it's possible .. quite a hard part to model regardless, but possible
00:22.30brlcadthe entire base structure is pretty trivial, something like an rcc, with an inner rcc and a torus subtracted
00:22.46brlcadthe hard part is one of the blades
00:22.51louipcyeah it's the blades with their curves which are tricky
00:23.34brlcadif we had a birail primitive (on the wish list), it'd be easier, define two curves, interpolates the path
00:24.33brlcadwithout it, the shape looks like the edge of two parabolic ellipsoids attached together where the direct changes
00:26.37brlcadwould be seriously tricky csg, probably about 10 primitives for each of the two blade sizes, then replicated in a radial pattern
00:29.10brlcadno easy way you'd get those blends along the base, though, that's for sure -- curvature on curvature is a weakness
00:31.42louipcyeah it's quite complex. hopefully I could make one of those eventually
00:32.46brlcaddefinitely eventually
00:33.15louipcbut on a CNC :D
00:33.33brlcadin the wish list big picture, birail is a relatively high-priority item
00:34.09brlcadyeah.. i don't know how you'd even begin that on a CNC other than cutting out the raw shape
00:34.41brlcadthat thing has plates that have been pressed to form, then power welded to the base if I had to guess from the look
01:29.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c:
01:29.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: put comments on their own line. was going to add code to bu_log() to try and
01:29.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: detect when there are no ... args, but it does not seem to work (at least on mac
01:29.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: os x) as va_arg keeps scanning past the end giving the wrong count!
01:31.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h:
01:31.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: add GCC attribute declarations (when we're compiling with GCC of course) that
01:31.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: help the compiler know that a particular function has printf-style arguments or
01:31.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: is a function that never returns. add the attributes to the likes of bu_log,
01:31.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: bu_flog, and bu_bomb. code inspired from bz, thx.
01:37.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/dg_obj.c librt/wdb_obj.c mged/cmd.c):
01:37.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: change wdb_tree_cmd() to dgo_tree_cmd() so that we can have access to the
01:37.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: display geometry (particularly, to get access to the 'who' command). modify the
01:37.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: behavior of the mged 'tree' command so that if you don't provide it any options,
01:37.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: it will display the tree for all objects displayed. this is in response and
01:37.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: inspired by a tcl snippet from david loman that needed this functionality to aid
01:37.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: in analyzing gqa output.
01:44.26CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: mged 'tree' command now shows e'd objects instead of returning a usage error, processing the geometry that is e'd up on the display.
01:47.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: update the usage to reflect the change
02:10.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/rt/opt.c):
02:10.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: john noticed that the -g and -G options were not working on the rt apps anymore
02:10.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: due to the change to the default aspect from 1.0 to 0.0; and sure enough, he was
02:10.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: right. the aspect ratio change (made several years ago!) was for the -V view
02:10.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: aspect option, but obviously had other users in other files that used the value.
02:10.57CIA-4BRL-CAD: this changes the default back to 1.0 while also adding a sanity check into the
02:10.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: argument processor to make sure the aspect ratio is always a sane value.
02:13.37louipcbrlcad: actually impellers are milled on CNC machines
02:16.17brlcadah, interesting
02:16.25louipchttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4984324514373898629&q=impeller+machining&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
02:16.27brlcadwould be interesting g-code
02:16.34louipc5-axis
02:16.45louipcit's pretty damned sexy
02:17.43starseekercoool
02:17.46louipcdamn I want one of those machines
02:17.47brlcadwow, that's pretty cool
02:18.31brlcadand it followed contours, so it had to have knowledge of the brep seams in the code
02:18.54brlcadpretty nifty/tricky
02:19.22louipcthis one is even better http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9040285813914114865&q=impeller+machining&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
02:20.50brlcadsomehow, I'm betting there's custom "impeller" software so that it can optimally cut it given how much precision those blades need to have
02:23.20louipcyeah there's some kind of software for that operation
04:07.45yukonboblouipc: very cool
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06:19.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h:
06:19.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix a truely bizarre VC8 compilation error (spawning from warning C4346) where
06:19.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: we either have to get rid of the typdefs or add this typename qualifier. docs
06:19.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: purport that this is actually compliance required, so go with it.
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08:00.30CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h:
08:00.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: the last change crashed the build with MSVC V6.0 compiler
08:00.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: made an ifdef for this compiler
08:15.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: try just getting rid of the typedef -- does this work in vc6?
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08:49.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/ (MINOR PATCH): we're already on 7.11 for head, next release after 7.10.4 release will be a minor revision release at 7.12.0.
08:49.31brlcadhey daniel -- did that last opennurbs_ext.h change work for you?
08:49.40brlcadif not, I'll revert it
08:52.16d_rossbergbrlcad: I've already fixed it (today), I hape to get rid of the MSVC 6 next year
08:53.09brlcadi know you did, then I commited like two minutes after you :)
08:53.33brlcadgot rid of the typedef altogether, if it works, it's even simpler (should work..)
08:55.22d_rossbergbrlcad: ah, I havm't seen, I'm not on the commits mailing list (to much "spam"), I'll have a look ...
08:59.11brlcadyeah, that's way too much for lots of folks
08:59.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc/Dll/brlcad.def: include the other symbols that are currently being used in ef windows module
08:59.29brlcadcould get the digest, but I'm sure you see the change during a cvs up anyways
09:07.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/include/opennurbs_ext.h: there was a segment -> BVSegment<BV> replacement missing
09:08.06d_rossbergbrlcad: it should work now ;-)
09:12.46brlcadcool :)
09:13.04brlcadah, wasn't sure if that was one of them
09:13.18brlcadif it was a constructor call or if there was some other routine called segment
09:13.36brlcadsince it wasn't qualified as a BVNode<>::
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10:15.05Z80-Boybrlcad: did you already find an opportunity to find what is taking so much time in the pathological rendering case?
10:15.25Z80-Boybrlcad: it's something in the boolean evaluation - that's called weaver isn't it?
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13:22.37``Erikblah
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16:26.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/swidgets/scripts/tree.itk: Added an optional doDraw parameter to the insert method.
16:30.03CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Minor update.
16:38.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added rtg3
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16:53.59``Erikblehhh
16:59.03*** join/#brlcad IriX64_ (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177879294.dsl.bell.ca)
17:26.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libtcl/libtcl.vcproj: Updates to accomodate earlier reorganization.
17:39.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libtk/libtk.vcproj: Updates to accomodate earlier reorganization.
17:43.23CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/compnet.c: Include adrt_common.h so ADRT_NAME_SIZE gets defined. Add RCS tag.
17:59.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/Dm.tcl:
17:59.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: fix a nasty startup delay in a particular viewer app that uses the Mged
17:59.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: megawidget (which in turn uses the Display megawidget, which uses Dm, which had
17:59.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: a :0 hard-coded). this fixes the bug by making it use the DISPLAY environment
17:59.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: variable.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071018

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071018

01:32.28*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
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07:43.30tofu``Erik: here's that link for 4.4 that I was looking for: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/apps/graphics/rays/brlcad/!INDEX.html
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09:12.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (18 files in 9 dirs): more quellings of level 4 flawfinder issues
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13:25.51``Erikcool
13:44.56CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (Makefile.am config.h): configure generated files should not be in CVS
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17:10.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/wish/wish.vcproj: Update to accomodate the earlier reorganization.
17:15.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libbu/libbu.vcproj: Update to accomodate the earlier reorganization.
17:19.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/liboptical/liboptical.vcproj: Updates to accomodate the earlier reorganization.
17:29.31*** join/#brlcad Maloeran (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
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18:01.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libregex/libregex.vcproj: Initial check-in.
18:02.48brlcadgo go gadget bob
18:43.25dtidrow_workheh
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22:53.25louipclol I just got a copy of machinery's handbook and the corners are chamfered
23:38.39``Erikbrlcad is 100% vegetarian safe, made of soy
23:39.36``Erik(and probably unconscious, as he's completely given up sleep the last few days to watch tv O.o :> *duck*)
23:39.44starseekerhehe
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071019

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071019

02:16.18*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
02:39.36brlcadactually haven't seen a lick of tv in like four days now (since Heros)
02:39.49brlcadand that's par for the course
02:39.59brlcadeven the past few nights coding have been music nights
02:58.49``Erikheh, so ya missed southpark, silverman, and drawn together? O.o
02:58.56brlcadyup
02:59.10brlcadI haven't really seen much southpark via tv in *years*
02:59.21brlcadsome over the net though
03:00.27``Erikemacs on a mac, particularly using X, is very not newb friendly
03:00.44``Erikmeta in particular O.o
03:29.47brlcadI avoid alt, generally a non-portable key no matter what the app
03:38.14``Erik<-- has no idea how to rebind meta to something else
03:41.35brlcadmeta is alt and esc
03:42.34brlcadjust it's modal as esc .. you don't press and hold it, you press and release, then press the secondary
03:43.58brlcadi.e. alt-'>' and alt-'<'  are the same as esc,'>' and esc,'<' where - is press and hold and , means press then release
03:44.09brlcadthose two are jump to end and beginning of file, btw
03:44.51brlcadpretty excellent cheat sheet that I used when I started: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/emacsrefcard.pdf
03:47.21brlcadthe built-in tutorial isn't half bad either, ctrl-x h t
03:47.46brlcadit explains most of the concepts
03:48.37brlcadhah, awesomeness: http://www.ohloh.net/blog/worlds_oldest_source_code_repositories
03:51.17louipclol
05:32.23yukonbobbrlcad: congrats :)
05:33.32yukonbob``Erik: esc++ -- alt is non-portable, and at least on my keyboards, too contortion-like...
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13:15.22``Erikso let me get this straight... vim sucks because to enter the more powerful editor commands, you generally have to push escape, then the command key
13:15.37``Erikbut emacs is better, because... well... the alt key sucks, so you have to push esc... then the command key
13:15.51``Erik:>
13:15.55``Erikoi, mal
13:17.50Z80-Boy(Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.)
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13:51.16MaloeranHey Erik
13:57.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/tkimg/tkimg.vcproj: Update to accomodate the earlier reorganization.
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14:50.47*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
15:17.35MaloeranHrmph. Does news.bbc.co.uk resolve for anyone? If yes, what's the IP?
15:23.39MinuteElectronresolves for me, checking ip
15:24.21MinuteElectron212.58.226.29
15:24.26MinuteElectronMaloeran: ...
15:25.18MinuteElectronSpeaking of IP's resolving, can anyone check whether eve-online.com works for them?
15:27.20MaloeranIt resolves to 87.237.39.199 but the server closes connection immediately upon reception of http requests
15:27.35MaloeranAnd for some reason I can't read the BBC today
15:27.52brlcad~nslookup news.bbc.co.uk
15:28.58MaloeranThe IP works although without images as it fails to resolve some other bbc.co.uk DNS
15:29.15MinuteElectron~nslookup eve-online.com
15:29.17brlcadI get that it's a cname to newswww.bbc.net.uk
15:29.22brlcadwhich doesn't resolve to anything
15:29.32brlcad~nslookup newswww.bbc.net.uk
15:29.35brlcad(via dig)
15:29.47brlcadlooks like someone messed up
15:29.59brlcadprobably take it a couple hours to propagate the fix
15:30.15brlcadway too popular a site for that to go unnoticed for more than a couple seconds
15:30.24``Erikheh, unless they really botched up the ttl and serial or something :D
15:30.24MaloeranNeat
15:31.18``Erikit used to be that the delimiter between competent sysadmins and newbies was the ability to set up bind
15:38.01brlcadreally?  never thought that bind was that tricky to set up .. just a fair bit to remember when you don't poke at it very often
15:38.15brlcadnow setting up a secure sendmail...
15:39.11brlcador recompiling your own custom kernel (and having it work reliably) .. that used to be quite a trick (when you had to do it entirely by hand)
15:39.11MaloeranAh, the BBC'S DNS is fixed
15:39.58MaloeranKernel recompilation is terribly simple these days, I'm not sure why it's commonly seen as something obscure never to attempt even by many Linux users
15:40.48brlcadnow it is, yeah .. it's been really simplified
15:42.58``Erikcustom kernel on what?
15:43.28brlcadexactly
15:43.47``Eriklinux in the 1.2 days was about as fun as shoving a pen up your nostril until it pops out, but bsd has always been pretty damn easy, even the 'hard' ones like obsd
15:44.31``Erikonce linux got toys like 'oldconfig' and that curses config, it was pretty easy *shrug* :)
15:44.49brlcadit totally matter how obscure the hardware was, having to know which kernel modules were buggy as hell and needed to be avoided, which worked well with certain others, digging up details about your hardware just to know what to turn on/off, no help on what the options even went to without reading the sources, etc
15:45.06``Erikheh
15:45.29brlcadyeah, i'm talking pre-curses days, and before the CONFIG settings stuck
15:45.32``Erikyou had to have those horrible details of hardware just to boot dos, *shudder* config.sys and autoexec.bat and those
15:45.34Maloeran1.2, that's 1995 or so? I think I was barely writing my first lines of code
15:45.48brlcadyeah, around 1995, fun times
15:47.49``Erikok, I've A) been ruined by scheme and B) am taking on too many new things at once O.o
15:49.52``Erikanyone know how to make a function take a functor as an argument in CL?
15:50.04``Erikmeh, I do C daily
15:50.24``Erikbut sometimes I want to shift out of first, so'z I do other languages, too
15:51.44``Erik(and the notion of running 'swank' on sbcl, then being able to connect and edit a running program interactively using 'slime' in emacs is... well, swank)
15:52.46``Erikscheme and C both hold the same symbol space for functions and variables, CL does not :/
15:53.31MaloeranEww.
15:53.42brlcad~cl
15:53.43ibotsomebody said cl was common lisp
15:54.17brlcadI'd have to dig up some really old code
15:54.30MaloeranMmhm, writing a root keyboard logger was easier than I thought
15:54.44``ErikI'd hit the right page on google faster, I'd imagine
15:54.47``Erikheh
15:55.05brlcadprobably
15:55.10brlcadthat's why i'm not looking :)
15:56.14MinuteElectron:)
15:56.14``Erikhm, mebbe funcall is the knob I'm missing
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16:14.26``Erikah, that's how. lame
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16:43.31yukonbob'morning, cadheads
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18:23.47yukonbobHello, whirled.
18:28.19poolioHello, yukonbob.
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18:43.03mikolaHello
18:51.46MinuteElectronMaloeran: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2007/10/11/bbc_news_knocked_offline_by_performance_changes.html
19:32.12``Eriknice, (fib 40) took 20s, did a trivial memoization and (fib 1000) took 0.001s on the first 'pump'
19:48.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/win/tclWinPort.h: Conditionally undef INCL_WINSOCK_API_TYPEDEFS before defining.
19:50.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: Mods for getting BLT to compile on Windows.
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19:53.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Mod for Windows to expose a few deprecated functions for tkimg.
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19:55.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (attach.c ged.c rtif.c): Minor mods for getting things compiled on Windows.
19:57.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: dgo_cmd already declared in raytrace.h
19:59.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fb-pix.c fb-png.c): Minor mods for Windows.
20:03.05CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Added a function declaration for dgo_tree_cmd.
20:04.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Updates for getting things to compile again.
20:05.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: Minor mod for Windows.
20:14.13``Erikhum, interesting
20:14.31``Erikthe C version with -O3 took 337.745 seconds
20:14.47``Erikfor fib(40)
20:19.00``Erik(for a C version that can push out to fib(1000)... the version that spews wrong answers quickly was 2.5 seconds)
20:41.00``Erikhum, java just barely beats out the gmp C
20:50.01*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
21:34.19*** join/#brlcad Bariton (n=Bary@p54875C44.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:12.00brlcadgah, wrong way bob..
23:28.19``Erikheh
23:28.32``Erikhey, brlcad, what time is jasons thing tomorrow?
23:28.42``ErikI got the date and location, but not the time O.o
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071020

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071020

00:26.52*** part/#brlcad mikola (n=mikola@rmdsouza.wecn.sabo.mtu.edu)
00:42.02yukonbobbrlcad: "wrong way bob"  --- directed at me?
02:14.45brlcadno, the "other bob" :)
02:14.57brlcad``Erik: 3pm
02:24.57``Erikthanks
03:46.53starseekerbrlcad: on?
03:48.07louipcstarseeker: were you doing volumeII ?
03:48.44starseekerlouipc:  Yes, I started on it
03:49.01starseekerlouipc:  I'll be continuing if life ever returns to something resembling sanity...
03:49.35louipccool maybe I'll join in
03:49.43starseekerfeel free :-)
03:49.47louipcthere's so many things to be done
03:50.04starseekerMost of the markup is pretty rough - I'm anticipating doing a lot of reworking
03:50.16louipcI have to figure out which is the best itch to scratch
03:50.18starseekerI just wanted to have it "close" before staring the details
03:51.04starseekerHeh - know that feeling
03:52.30louipcwell I'm just talking about in brlcad alone haha
03:52.49louipccommand line creation of sketch primitives is one thing I'd like
03:52.52starseekerhehe - yeah there's plenty in there to keep any geek hypnotized
03:54.54louipcyeah that's something that would come later
03:56.03louipcnot silly at all. I'd like that too :D
03:57.33starseeker"download BRL-CAD, simulate the Apollo 11 moon landing!"
03:57.51louipcheh heh
03:58.00louipcI have trouble viewing havoc
03:58.09starseekeror for more explosive fun, maybe someone could dig up the Russian N1 blueprints...
03:58.55starseekerlouipc:  really?  what hardware are you running on?
03:59.25Supaplexhe upgraded. his 8088 has a coprocessor now.
03:59.33louipc866MHz PIII 384MB RAM
03:59.41starseekerOh no wonder.
04:00.05starseekerI was stuck about there for a long time too, maddening...
04:00.41louipcit's not so bad with linux
04:01.07starseekerWhat desktop do you run?
04:01.17louipcopenbox
04:01.38starseeker:-)
04:02.53starseekerIt's weird, but fluxbox seems to represent some kind of local optimum for me...
04:03.08starseekerstays out of the way, does what I need, light on resources.
04:03.46louipcthat's openbox pretty much
04:04.02louipcit's even simpler
04:04.07starseekerwow
04:04.17louipcI don't really like xml configs though
04:05.32starseeker"power" terminals seem so silly when you can just fire off xterms and dock them using the windowmanager itself.
04:05.33louipcso many apps have tabs now it's not really a big deal
04:05.53louipcI used tabs with multiple terms when I used fluxbox. now I just use screen
04:06.24starseekerTrue, but (for example) I can have firefox with docbook docs, emacs with volume II xml, and a terminal in the cvs archive all in a single tabbed group :-)
04:07.55louipcyeah
04:09.31louipcindeed
04:10.04yukonbob(reading from his screen'd irssi ;)
04:15.24yukonbob<sesame street>One of these things, isn't the same</sesame street>
04:19.43Supaplex... One of these things is not like the other
04:19.47Supaplexiirc :)
04:28.26louipcstarseeker: what's the path to the docbook files?
04:29.47starseekerdoc/book/
04:30.47louipcuh oh
04:30.52louipcdang cvs
04:47.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_arbn.c: When an arbn is imported with a non-identity matrix, the import routine assumes unit normal vectors. The code now unitizes the normals prior to applying the matrix. This fixes bug #1800148 - arbn is incorrectly mirrored
05:43.08*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
06:31.17*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
08:20.42*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-087-174.pools.arcor-ip.net)
09:19.10*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-007-144.pools.arcor-ip.net)
09:25.42*** join/#brlcad elite01__ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-003-119.pools.arcor-ip.net)
10:02.42*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54874F1C.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:04.40*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-80.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:11.35``Erikpussies
12:14.35MaloeranYou know that bx includes /detach and scr-bx? :)
12:26.52``Erikyes
12:26.59``Erikthat's the "miniscreen"
12:27.59``Erikbut if I accidently close the window or if there's a network hiccup that kills my ssh session, bx will quit... and right now, the screen on my fbsd server is running 8 windows and the one on my laptop has 3
12:28.54``Erikoften, the one running on the machine I'm at has each window named for the machine I'm ssh'd into there
12:29.23``Erikhardstatus alwayslastline "%{b}[ %{B}%H %{b}][ %{w}%?%-Lw%?%{b}(%{W}%n*%f %t%?(%u)%?%{b})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{b}][%{B} %d/%m %{W}%C%a %{b}]"
12:29.40``Erikthat in the .screenrc helps a bit, at the cost of one row per screen level
12:34.27Maloeranbx is supposed to have a variable for detach_on_sighup or something, not that it worked for me
12:58.10``Erikgiven that I had other reasons to run screen on my server, I never bothered looking for something like that *shrug*
12:58.39``Erik'screen -d' is a big win, too
12:58.49``Erikfor when I forget to detach :D
17:35.01*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
17:52.03*** join/#brlcad crotchetyGuy (n=brent@75-167-160-25.bois.qwest.net)
18:12.29*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-014-036.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:56.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177879294.dsl.bell.ca)
18:57.43IriX64http://rafb.net/p/8LvNR266.html    <------ does this happen on your copy too?
19:04.40IriX64i've got two other issues (this ones easy to fix) but bwish and mged both come up with tons of undefs to x functions, still trying to pin that down.
19:06.49IriX64http://rafb.net/p/IxISxf19.html <---- this ones easy to fix too.
19:07.48*** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:07.53buttihello
19:08.12buttianybody home?
19:09.01louipcnope
19:09.08IriX64thank God he didn't use bu_bomb anywhere outside rtsrv.c
19:10.20buttii will install brlcad on my maschine
19:11.01buttibut maybe dont need to do that if the program dosnt import clean dxf from blender? what is your experience?
19:12.06IriX64rttherm suffers same as bwish and mged is it my system?
19:12.55buttido I get any answare?
19:13.53louipcI think you can import dxf
19:13.58louipcor convert it
19:14.10buttidid you try it with blender?
19:14.15louipcnope
19:14.21louipcsend me a file
19:14.27buttiI mean export file to dxf and tahn open that brl
19:14.32buttiin brlcad
19:14.37buttiok
19:14.45buttitrogh dcc?
19:14.52louipcdxf-g is the app you want in brlcad
19:15.10louipcI've never tried it though
19:15.12louipcbutti: yep
19:15.18IriX64that works i imported a shuttle pix with it
19:15.27IriX64shuttle.dxf
19:15.56IriX64that was on 7.8.4 tho
19:16.34buttidxf- g? /ddc send louipc /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm20.dxf
19:16.38buttishit :)
19:16.58louipcdxf-g is the program to convert from dxf to brlcad format
19:17.18IriX64and it works :)
19:17.30buttiok where I get it?
19:17.40IriX64its part of brlcad
19:17.47IriX64look in brlcad/bin
19:18.02buttiI mean in qcad the file is not usable
19:18.06buttiok
19:18.22IriX64make install
19:18.33buttiI still download
19:18.41IriX64arghhh hate windows it doesn't know what i want to do :(
19:18.44butti28%
19:18.56buttiIriX64: :)
19:19.12IriX64:)
19:19.13louipchmm! I can't get this file!
19:19.21buttidont know why this server is so slow
19:19.30buttihmm
19:19.40louipc15:15 DCC no file offered by butti
19:19.49louipcbut it's in the list for some reason
19:19.51louipclol
19:19.55louipc(stalled)
19:20.22buttiwhy that?
19:20.52IriX64why does my copy say 7.11.0 now :)
19:20.57louipc15:17 DCC can't connect to 192.168.1.3 port 33160
19:21.16buttion my side?
19:21.37louipcI've been able to send dcc before without problems
19:21.40louipcit may be
19:21.59buttii will uload thatto the web
19:22.42louipcgood idea
19:28.09buttilouipc: did you get my msg?
19:31.38louipcyea
19:38.07*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
19:38.28buttiso I leave, thank you boyes
19:38.35*** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:38.38IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.11.0.png  < ---- a forced build but it sorta works
19:59.23IriX64more to do, later all :)
20:24.30*** part/#brlcad crotchetyGuy (n=brent@75-167-160-25.bois.qwest.net)
20:47.56Z80-Boywoohoo! The arbn bug fixed!
21:00.32*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
21:06.06*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch)
21:07.01louipcbrlcad feels so european
21:07.10louipcmm units as default
21:07.15louipc1st angle projection
21:29.51yukonboblouipc: if using mm and feeling uropean is too foreign for you, feel C
21:30.02yukonboblouipc: if using mm and feeling European is too foreign for you, feel Canadian instead...
22:52.43*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177879294.dsl.bell.ca)
22:53.26IriX64http://rafb.net/p/GkbXsx62.html   <----- do you know about this one? dg_obj uses static, raytrace.h use non static, which is right?
22:54.47IriX64err wait
22:57.35IriX64oh man what gives?
23:00.24IriX64ill rename the one in dgo_obj.c to dgo_tree_cmd_dgo doesn't appear to be used anywhere else.
23:08.58IriX64compiles
23:17.07*** join/#brlcad cad06 (n=44e41422@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:18.59*** join/#brlcad cad06 (n=44e41422@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:25.40*** join/#brlcad cad06 (n=44e41422@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:27.29*** join/#brlcad incalizondo (n=zondo@ip68-228-20-34.pn.at.cox.net)
23:28.08incalizondocant connect to fb server on port 5559
23:28.17incalizondoanyone out there get that?
23:29.07incalizondognube here,,,,,mged wont render
23:29.34IriX64exec fbserv -S 512 1 /dev/X &        what happens?
23:30.28incalizondo[zondo@localhost ~]$ exec fbserv -S 512 1 /dev/X &
23:30.29incalizondo[1] 2042
23:30.29incalizondo[zondo@localhost ~]$ X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
23:30.29incalizondo<PROTECTED>
23:30.29incalizondo<PROTECTED>
23:30.29incalizondo<PROTECTED>
23:30.31incalizondo<PROTECTED>
23:30.33incalizondothat
23:31.03IriX64man i meant from mged :)
23:31.25incalizondohahahaha oh dam
23:33.34IriX64if it comes up use 1 as the port number for any programs that need to know the port number
23:33.57incalizondoa box flashed up and was gone real fast ,,,,
23:34.05incalizondo2049
23:34.17IriX64try /dev/ogl
23:34.26incalizondois what was lewft in the mged shell
23:34.47IriX64what version brlcad?
23:36.26incalizondook trying ogl created a large black area,,,,,really hard to see whats what
23:36.56IriX64thats your frame buffer, now bring something up and use rt to render it
23:38.52incalizondono dice
23:39.59IriX64what did you type?
23:40.14incalizondodo i have to connect to a display manager when i start mged,,,,like when you create a new data.g?
23:40.28incalizondoi didnt type i used to gui command
23:40.38incalizondothe gui command
23:40.48IriX64think connecting is required
23:41.01IriX64try rtedge --help
23:41.07IriX64or rt --help
23:41.43IriX64and be aware i know less then most folks about brlcad operation.
23:42.39incalizondosomeone screamed dinner was ready :d ty 4 de help
23:42.44*** part/#brlcad incalizondo (n=zondo@ip68-228-20-34.pn.at.cox.net)
23:59.41``Erikeck, my feets O.o not used to standing so much, heh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071021

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071021

00:19.08starseeker``Erik:  been partying?
00:26.30yukonbobstarseeker: maybe somebody took his seat on the subway, and he had to stand all the way home...
00:45.35``Erikwent to a friends bday party, 4 hours standing around in a park :) was fun
00:45.46``Erikbut now I smell like brlcad's dog :(
00:56.01IriX64you prefer smelling like a pussy :)
00:57.34yukonbobgot any pix of your latest work, IriX64?
00:59.16IriX64mc
00:59.39yukonbob?mc
00:59.58IriX64midnight commander my weapon of choice :)
01:00.14yukonbobah --
01:00.54IriX64why am i getting undefined X references in libfb when compiling fbserv?
01:01.47yukonbobwhy are you _always_ compiling brlcad? :) -- I see screen shots from you of it running... how did that one get compiled?
01:02.25IriX64thats 7.8.4.... trying to stay current
01:05.37yukonbobah --
01:06.32yukonbobif you want to add to the challenge (and help brlcad's robustness), try compiling against tcl/tk 8.4 (latest stable). I have, and so far so good, but the more, the merrier, they say.
01:06.58starseekeryukonbob:  I thought it now required 8.5?
01:06.58IriX64In file included from if_X.c:53:
01:06.58IriX64../../include/dm-X.h:42: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'mat_t'
01:07.06yukonbobstarseeker: not strictly
01:07.11IriX64if you help me here i will
01:07.28yukonbobit's compiled against 8.5, but is not using 8.5-specific features, as far as anybody knows.
01:07.42starseekerErm.  
01:07.44IriX64i was told it was married to 8.5 or greater
01:07.46yukonbobI have run it against 8.4.15, 8.4.16
01:07.53starseekerbrlcad:  Is that the case?
01:08.18IriX64in configure they hardcoded 8.5
01:08.25yukonbobstarseeker, IriX64: I've asked brlcad about this, and run installation is (so far) proof it's not married to 8.5 ;)
01:08.44IriX64ok :)
01:08.58yukonbobIriX64: there are some configure.ac modifications necessary, yes. This affects what ./configure looks for, and the resultant Makefile(s)
01:09.08starseekerWell, I guess the next question is whether we have exercised the part of brlcad that might notice the change...
01:09.31yukonbobstarseeker: yes -- that's why I say the more the merrier ;)
01:09.49yukonbobI'm an mged user and various rt[x] tools... and so far so good.
01:09.58starseekerOK.
01:11.47yukonbobI also skipped compilation of bwish (wish, compiled w/ a couple cad-specific routines) in hopes of creating libtclcad as a loadable module to a stock wish/tclsh binary -- I've got a start on that, but that's it. That will give bwish functionality w/o a dedicated binary (and allow things like rtwizard, etc. to run for me...)
01:12.03IriX64starseeker i'm just a hobbiest, wadda I know :)
01:12.40starseekeryukonbob:  Did you run the make test benchmark as well?  I don't now how comprehensive it is but it's a start
01:13.16IriX64thought somewhere theres a make test thingy too
01:13.44yukonbobstarseeker: no, I haven't...
01:14.19starseekerThat might be useful ;-)
01:15.28yukonbobas far as my personal use goes, it's better than 8.5, though, since I never got 8.5 running how I wanted; also nice to be able to depend on a stable version of tcl/tk rather than beta software...
01:17.00starseekerYes, the gentoo guys tend to agree...
01:17.34starseekerHmm... http://check.sourceforge.net/ looks kinda interesting.  Requires POSIX...
01:21.10starseekeryukonbob:  Sorry about not pushing harder on the docbook conversion - I'm hoping things will get better after next week.
01:34.02yukonbobstarseeker: _no_ problems what-so-ever -- you're not beholden to me, btw, either ;) -- I think I saw you mentioning emacs sometime earlier -- did you try that out as a docbook environ? Try those scripts I sent?
02:05.43starseekeryukonbob:  I am using emacs +nXML - very nice.
02:06.08starseekeryukonbob:  I haven't yet tried incremental pdf generation, so I haven't tried your scripts - when I do I'll fish them out :-)
02:12.51starseekeroops
02:33.42*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
02:34.08yukonbobHello, whirled.
03:16.19starseekeryukonbob returns :-)
03:16.35poolio:o brl-cad won't compile
03:16.46starseekeruh oh - what platform/version?
03:18.14starseekererk
03:25.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/deprecation.txt include/raytrace.h): removed wdb_tree_cmd(), added to dg_obj.c as dgo_tree_cmd()
03:28.16brlcadstarseeker: it should work with either -- codewise, it might need minor patches to work with 8.4 again but they should be really minor
03:28.45brlcadmost of the reasons for 8.5 are in the aquatk codebase and build system
03:52.17pooliobrlcad: is this your recent doing?
03:52.31pooliodg_obj.c:4917: error: conflicting types for 'dgo_tree_cmd'
03:52.31poolio../../include/raytrace.h:6364: error: previous declaration of 'dgo_tree_cmd' was here
03:53.07brlcadyup
03:53.11brlcadjust fixed it in that commit
03:53.23brlcadwell, not entirely my doing
03:53.59pooliommk :) re-updating.
03:53.59brlcadi changed the func, bob changed the decl (to match my change, but got it wrong)
03:54.34pooliohehe, oops :)
03:54.51brlcadthat was all just earlier today
03:55.43pooliobrlcad: so, just out of curiousity and cause I'm just remembering, there was a memory leak bug I found awhile back where this free'ing was commented out everywhere and we couldn't find a place for it...do you remember if that got fixed?
03:55.48poolio(sorry it's so vague, it's been awhile)
03:57.13brlcadit has definitely not been changed
03:57.35brlcadyou did make a free commit that's still in place and seems to be fine
03:58.04pooliok, I think I might start coding again. I'm really missing programming, and would like to try to see the project through...get some results
03:58.06brlcadbut the others that are uncommented are problematic .. other bits of code need to be refactored for it to free cleanly prior to exit
03:59.55poolioerrr if I could just get it to build on my box
04:00.06poolio../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList'
04:00.08poolioand a few more
04:00.23pooliothat's while trying to link bwish it looks like
04:04.59louipcyukonbob: in canada we use imperial for mechanical stuff
04:05.42brlcadpoolio: i've yet to be able to reproduce that error myself, but it's undoubtedly related to X11 library detection in configure
04:05.59brlcadit's missing the Xi library
04:06.02pooliobrlcad: alright, I'll dig around.
04:06.07brlcadso missing -lXi from the LIBS line
04:06.17brlcadwhich you can add directly to make or to the configure line
04:06.26brlcadbut the real question is why is configure failing to find it
04:07.13yukonboblouipc: hrmm... /me knew for construction, but figured for more  'technical' things we'd be using Metric...
04:07.39poolioconfigure:27636: checking for XGetExtensionVersion in -lXi
04:07.40poolioconfigure:27671: gcc -o conftest   -I/usr/local/include -L/usr/local/lib conftest.c -lXi    -lX11 -lX11 -lXext >&5
04:07.43poolio/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXi
04:07.51brlcadyeah, that's "wrong"
04:07.57brlcador you really are missing libXi
04:07.58pooliohmm
04:08.03poolioYes that's quite possible.
04:08.33brlcadwhy you'd suddenly now need it is a bit bizarre, though -- the interface code certainly hasn't changed that I can think of that were now using Xi symbols
04:08.43brlcadlook in the config.log
04:08.47brlcadsee why it failed
04:09.53pooliowell it's a different system then the one I was using over the summer
04:10.02poolioThe why it failed in config.log was just the line I pasted earlier
04:12.02brlcadoh
04:12.09brlcadit's missing /usr/X11R6/lib
04:12.26brlcaddo you have /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.* ?
04:12.48poolio...nope
04:12.57brlcadlocate libXi
04:13.17poolioit's searching ...
04:13.25poolio/usr/lib
04:13.31brlcadhuh
04:13.34pooliosymlink or change the search path?
04:13.47brlcadthat's bizzare place to have it
04:13.47brlcadwhat OS is it?
04:13.50poolioDebian
04:14.03brlcadare they trying to fade out /usr/X11R6 now?
04:14.26poolioHaven't the slightest idea, but there's no libs in it anymore
04:14.33brlcadinteresting
04:14.38brlcadasinine, but interesting
04:14.58brlcadeither way, /usr/lib is a default search dir iirc, but you can try adding -L/usr/lib to the LDFLAGS
04:15.06poolioYeah /usr/X11R6 is 'empty.' Just a symlink from /usr/X11R6/bin -> /usr/bin
04:34.17*** join/#brlcad zap (n=zap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
04:34.22*** part/#brlcad zap (n=zap@pool-71-251-104-157.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
05:32.30*** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
05:32.33buttihello
05:32.37buttimorgen
05:43.26*** part/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
06:06.21*** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178104046.adsl.alicedsl.de)
06:06.38buttiI have a quastion
06:06.55buttiis the @brlcad a bot?
06:08.02MaloeranHe's the main BRL-CAD developper, but he might also just be an artificial intelligence running on the ARL clusters
06:09.41buttiIt would be fantastic if he is AI
06:10.13buttiI willl believe that he is
06:10.20buttiit
06:18.31buttiinstalation from .deb failed
06:18.40buttitry from source
06:23.09buttimainly I am intrested if this software export dynamic VRML
06:25.54MaloeranThere's a .g to vrml exporter though I couldn't say if it's "dynamic" or not
06:27.15buttiI will tell you soon , the instalation takes long time
06:29.43buttiI get slowly impression that on linux OS is not many professional designeres which are using VRML , and not much developers intrested on this issue
06:30.32buttithis very hard for me
06:35.26buttiI cant install it :(  sudo make whit error 1
06:44.14buttido you know some another # for brl, I dnt want occupate and make you bored about my installation troubles
06:54.05buttiinstallation done :)
07:19.34buttiexcuseme last time more
07:19.40buttiThere is no visible way to start the app, and no instructions.
07:29.59poolioyou probably want mged :)
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10:43.15Supaplexpoolio: sleep for me to
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16:42.47butti_hello again
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16:53.37buttianybidy home on linux?
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16:55.35louipcyep
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17:36.46buttianybody home?
17:37.09louipcyep
17:37.29buttihello
17:37.47louipcwhat's up
17:38.40buttilouipc: I would like to give you some .dxf file to control it, becouse some reason dosnt let me start brlcad after succesful installation
17:39.16buttiand I must see if I need to fight with brlcad for this file
17:40.16buttishould look like this:http://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/12715
17:40.58louipccool
17:41.02buttihttp://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=12716
17:42.00buttisorry not this link
17:42.38buttihttp://papernapkin.org/pastebin/resources/wicket.Application/imageResource?imageEntryId=12689
17:42.50buttibut it looks like this above after export
17:43.53louipcthat's what it looks like in brlcad?
17:44.01buttiso if you dont mind, take my file to test it in brlcad
17:44.20buttino , this looks this way in qcad
17:44.27louipcoh
17:44.36louipcbecause qcad doesn't do 3D I think
17:45.04buttiyou mean thats why...sure this could be an explaining
17:45.28louipcI'd expect it'd work in brlcad
17:45.29buttimy system cant fint mged or rt to start brlcad
17:45.59buttialso any corresponding file to find: brlcad
17:46.22buttiand I m really angry about that
17:47.12louipcbrlcad is installed in /usr/brlcad by default so you need to add the corresponding directories to PATH, MANPATH, /etc/ld.so.cache etc
17:47.23louipcwhat distro are you using?
17:47.24buttisorry for my english, I never learn it, im very sorry
17:47.30buttifeisty
17:47.34louipcno prob
17:47.52buttiI have installed from source
17:47.58louipchmm
17:48.19louipcno ubuntu pkgs eh?
17:48.19buttiI saw in the web some guy has also this problem but no solution
17:48.43buttino , I compiled the packedge
17:49.28louipcwell the first thing you can do is make sure all your paths are set correctly
17:49.35buttiand after few times ...finally I've got clean installation
17:49.57buttihow I can do that?
17:51.22louipcexport PATH=$PATH:/usr/brlcad/bin;
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17:51.35louipcsimilarly with MANPATH
17:51.59louipcadd the lib directory to /etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig
17:52.36louipcor you can use LD_LIBRARY_PATH temporarily
17:56.59butti/etc/ld.so.conf this is not a directory
17:57.30buttishoud I put there the path to ldconfig?
17:57.49louipcld.so.conf is a file which you specify paths to libs
17:58.09louipcthen you run ldconfig to update ld.so.cache
17:58.58buttiin this case i should put there this path there? /sbin/ldconfig?
17:59.13buttido I understand it well?
17:59.25louipcyou put the path in ld.so.conf
17:59.44louipcldconfig will read ld.so.conf by default
18:01.56buttisorry I dont want to borring you but it would be very helpfull If you investigate one monet more for me. I have done it now and runed ldconfig
18:02.14buttiwhat next?
18:02.24louipcdid you set the paths?
18:03.01buttiI put the path of ldconf to ld.so.conf
18:03.19louipcyou also need to set PATH and MANPATH
18:04.07louipcyou should probably do that in a script that runs when you start a new shell
18:04.26louipcthat varies by distro (I don't know how ubuntu works)
18:05.01buttiwe will try...just tell me the code...Im not used to make a lot of stuff like that
18:06.23louipcwell you'd usually have a directory in /etc/ that has a bunch of scripts that add paths to your shell environment
18:06.57louipcyou'll have to find out how that's done in your distro
18:07.11buttiwhat kind of scripts?
18:07.23buttisure it is in /etc
18:07.25louipcjust to set variables
18:08.07louipcyou might want to look into using a debian pkg as well
18:08.30buttiof brl?
18:08.35louipcbut I'm not sure what compatibility between debian and ubuntu is like
18:08.46louipcI don't use either distro
18:08.57buttiwhat do you use?
18:09.09louipcbutti: ask someone who is experienced in your distro on how to properly do these things
18:09.12louipc;)
18:09.17louipcI use archlinux
18:09.22buttidebian = ubuntu ist almost the same
18:14.16buttido you mean seting path like this f.e :set path=($HOME/bin /usr/sfw/bin /opt/sfw/bin /usr/local/bin /usr/ccs/bin \?
18:14.26louipcyes
18:15.28buttithe problem still is that i dont know what paths brlcad needs
18:15.45buttior where theay are
18:15.58louipcdefault installation path is /usr/brlcad
18:17.11buttiso this path I will set in those ld.so* for my home dir, do I understand that?
18:19.16buttiset path=($HOME/bin /usr/brlcad?
18:19.22louipcwell make sure it's there
18:19.29buttiis it there
18:19.31louipcthen you have to point to the bin dir
18:19.36louipcand the lib dir
18:19.37louipcetc
18:19.41louipc/usr/brlcad/bin
18:19.45buttiok
18:21.50buttiprobably all this: bin  include  lib  man  share
18:21.55butti?
18:22.06louipcno you just need bin for PATH
18:22.12louipclib for ld.so.conf
18:22.16louipcman for MANPATH
18:36.41buttiexcuseme, this is what I changed now:
18:36.43buttihttp://papernapkin.org/pastebin/view/12767
18:38.53louipchmm I don't think you want to do that
18:39.20louipc<PROTECTED>
18:39.25louipcthat is what you want
18:40.38louipcand LD_LIBRARY_PATH is just for temporarily setting the library path
18:40.39buttiyou mean the syntax is wrong
18:40.57louipcbutti: yes and you should really find out how these things are done in your distro
18:41.09louipcask some ubuntu people that know :D
18:41.24buttiyes Im tryind to find out wright now
18:41.36buttiyes
18:45.18poolioIs Tcl require 8.5a6 hardcoded?
18:47.48louipcyeah I heard that there are changes in Tcl that mean it isn't backward compatible
18:49.07poolio``Erik: bwahaha. I like your commit comment on a shitty line of code I had: "silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope"
19:13.27buttiastro76: /msg louipc ps take atantion for me again
19:13.43butti<PROTECTED>
19:13.49buttishit
19:20.13buttilouipc: could I talk to you again?
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19:27.24butticlock_: hello
19:32.44clock_hi
19:33.16butticlock I me here to get some help, do you have a time for me?
19:57.38brlcadciao butti
19:59.30brlcadbutti: what's your question(s)?
20:00.48buttibrlcad: I have incredable compllications with makin brlcad runing on feisty...and I dont know if my installation was correct becouse I didnt follow instuction very exactly....it something about setin PATHS
20:00.49brlcadpoolio: tcl 8.5+ is listed in configure as a minimum as code modifications were needed to update from 8.4 to 8.5 -- if someone can confirm that it works with 8.4 without modification by simply adding the two extra lines to configure.ac, then it can be relaxed
20:01.18buttii made only ./configure make make install make benchmark and make clean ...thats all
20:01.20brlcadyou should know how to set/change your PATH regardless of BRL-CAD .. that's pretty fundamental to using *nix :)
20:01.31brlcaddid make && make install work?
20:01.37buttiand thats about that
20:01.45brlcadi.e. did they complete successfully?
20:01.48buttiyes.no errors at all
20:01.59brlcadthen run "/usr/brlcad/bin/rt"
20:02.05brlcaddoes it give you an error or show a version
20:02.40pooliobrlcad: do I really need 8.5a6? /usr/brlcad/lib/tcl8.5/init.tcl: version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5b1, need exactly 8.5a6
20:03.02buttibrlcad: may I put the output here?
20:03.23buttiCompile-time debug symbols are available
20:03.23buttiRunning on fawn
20:03.23butti/usr/brlcad/bin/rt:  MGED database not specified
20:03.23buttiUsage:  rt [options] model.g objects...
20:03.23buttiOptions: -s #           Square grid size in pixels (default 512) -w # -n #      Grid size width and height in pixels -V #           View (pixel) aspect ratio (width/height) -a #           Azimuth in deg -e #           Elevation in deg -M             Read matrix+cmds on stdin -N #           NMG debug flags -o model.pix   Output file, .pix format (default=fb) -x #           librt debug flags
20:03.39butti<PROTECTED>
20:03.41brlcadpoolio: ah, that's something stupid in the tcl init funcs -- tcl's init script version check is braindead
20:04.17brlcadbutti: don't need to paste, just answer -- I know what the output is supposed to look like ;)
20:04.38brlcadokay, so it's installed and at least rt runs
20:04.39buttibrlcad: sure , how I could forget it? :)
20:05.21buttibrlcad: I wouldnt make you nervous if i didnt needs for my work
20:05.37brlcadyou can and should set your PATH to include /usr/brlcad/bin but it's not necessary -- just prefix the commands with "/usr/brlcad/bin/"
20:06.06brlcadi happen to need it for my work too, so sounds good ;)
20:06.31buttibrlcad: this is what i would like to do for me, I give you syntax for my system
20:06.58buttibecouse Im not the persone which is hucking in the system :)
20:07.03brlcadso there are lots of commands in brl-cad, depends what you're trying to do .. I see in the log that you have a dxf .. did you already run dxf-g ?
20:07.38buttino i didnt
20:07.56buttithis command isnt known
20:08.09brlcadbecause you never set your PATH
20:08.26buttiPATH="${PATH}:/some/path:/adifferent/path"
20:08.26brlcadi'm not going to teach you how to set your PATH today, just run /usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g
20:08.46buttiI never set my Path, i need to do that onece and I get it
20:08.57brlcadforget the path for now
20:09.06brlcadjust run /usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g
20:09.11pooliobrlcad: I changed the require line in init.tcl but It's stail failing with a version conflict...
20:09.46brlcadpoolio: it's in a couple places iirc
20:09.52brlcadone is compiled into the library
20:10.02poolioarghh.
20:10.48brlcadso if you have a 8.4 init.tcl trying to load a 8.5 libtcl, it'll choke; if you have a 8.5 init.tcl set to allow 8.4+, it'll still choke
20:10.56brlcadit can be made to work
20:11.04brlcadinvolves chicken heads, and beads
20:11.09buttibrlcad: Saving stack trace to unknown-17666-bomb.log
20:11.37pooliobrlcad: they're both 8.5, just different ones
20:11.38brlcadbutti: that's fine
20:11.49brlcadbutti: I presume it showed you usage
20:11.54buttibrlcad: should i read the log?
20:12.05brlcadno
20:12.34buttiI need probably some gui if its prossible :)
20:12.50pooliobutti: probably mged...
20:13.54brlcadbutti: focus .. first task is running dxf-g to convert to brl-cad format
20:14.32buttibrlcad: ok
20:15.12brlcadfollow the usage and see if you can get the .g file
20:15.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c: don't bomb on usage. bu_bomb is now only abnormal exit conditions.
20:15.46brlcadgah, now that I've stopped playing that game I was playing for 6 hours.. i suddenly realize just how freaking hungry I apparently am
20:16.17butti.g file it is a standart format for brlcad?
20:23.42buttithere is any *.g file
20:24.24brlcadthere are several .g examples installed
20:24.43brlcad/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/VERSION/db/
20:25.10brlcad.g == BRL-CAD "g"oemetry file format
20:25.20brlcadheh, 'g'eometry
20:25.29butti:)
20:25.32buttiok I see
20:26.22brlcaddid you run dxf-g yet?
20:26.51brlcadand what is your goal?  what are you trying to do?
20:27.11brlcadif you intend to be modelling, forget dxf-g -- you should be going through the tutorials that are available on the website first
20:27.15buttibut I dontt see my file
20:27.22brlcadwhat file?
20:27.41brlcadi can't see it for you
20:27.50buttiok , I think I made something not necessery
20:28.07brlcadyou're not giving me enough information to help you
20:28.07buttiI made dxf on my dxf file
20:28.16buttidxf-g
20:28.32buttiand then I was looking for myfile.g
20:28.49brlcadyou mean, you made a .g on your .dxf file?
20:28.58buttiyes
20:29.45buttilike /usr/brlcad/*/dxf-g ond /my/file..
20:30.15brlcadshow me your exact line
20:30.37butti/usr/brlcad/bin/dxf-g  /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/TEST1.dxf
20:30.49brlcadis that all?
20:30.55buttiyes
20:31.01brlcadthen you didn't read the usage :)
20:31.07brlcaddxf-g [-c] [-d] [-v] [-t tolerance] [-s scale_factor] input_dxf_file output_file.g
20:31.11buttii didnt mea culpa
20:31.16brlcadinput .. AND .. output
20:31.29buttiok, so stupid
20:32.22buttiok something happend
20:33.08buttiI have the file
20:36.12buttiIve got it!
20:36.17buttithank you so much
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20:40.30buttibrlcad: so still some trouble to see anything on screen but I think I must read now the tuts, or?
20:41.32buttiIm wondering that this software is 20 years old
20:41.34brlcadthat certainly shouldn't hurt
20:41.59brlcadit's a powerful package, but not easy to learn
20:42.51brlcadthere isn't decent a shaded mode in mged, so you only get wireframe -- and for a model like a dxf that is going to import as a bunch of polygons, that's going to be a bit painful
20:43.07brlcadyou'll need/want to raytrace it to see what it really looks like
20:43.16buttibrlcad: it will be not hard...but takes time which I dont have realy...in 10 dayes <i must give my project away
20:43.23brlcadrun 'rt' in mged to see what it looks like
20:43.44buttiI nee only wireframes and measure that
20:44.15buttiso that the people working on autocad can read it and counstuct the project
20:44.20brlcadmged only shows wireframe -- you have to ray-trace it to see shaded
20:44.31buttiI dont need raytrace
20:44.40buttijust wires
20:44.55brlcadthen rtedge
20:45.01buttiok
20:45.12brlcadwireframe in mged is not the same as wire/sketch/diagram in autocad
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20:45.24buttiinredable hacklike app
20:46.22brlcadmged's interface is painful
20:46.32brlcadit's eventually going away
20:46.55buttiI get some errors
20:46.55brlcadbut not for a long time, so long as the experts still need/use it and until there's a fully operational alternative
20:47.09brlcad"you're not giving me enough information to help you"
20:47.14buttibrlcad: you are incradable
20:47.25brlcadhm?
20:48.19MaloeranParse error on incradable
20:48.44buttisudo /usr/brlcad/bin/rt  /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g
20:48.56brlcadyou have to specify the object
20:49.00buttiCompile-time debug symbols are available
20:49.00buttiRunning on fawn
20:49.00butti/usr/brlcad/bin/rt: no objects specified -- raytrace aborted
20:49.08brlcadno objects specified
20:49.31brlcad.g files are multigeometry, can contain many top-level models
20:49.54brlcadrun this: /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g tops
20:50.01brlcadwhat does it report?
20:50.04buttiyou mean I shloud put each object seperatly?
20:50.24brlcadno
20:50.41brlcadi mean a .g file isn't like a blender file that has "one" model .. it can have many
20:50.46butti<PROTECTED>
20:51.01brlcadhuh?
20:51.09brlcadyou ran "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -c ~/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g tops" and it said command not found??
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20:52.38buttiBRL-CAD Release 7.10.2  Geometry Editor (MGED) Thu Aug 16 16:30:38 EDT 2007, Compilation 1 morrison@sushi.local:/usr/brlcad
20:52.41buttiattach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?
20:52.58buttiI made mistake sorry
20:53.33buttibrlcad: do hack on this prog 20 years?
20:53.45buttiyou
20:53.47brlcadyou've not even seen 1% of it
20:54.08brlcadno, I've only been involved for a little less than half that time
20:54.11buttijessus, i m shaking from fear
20:54.48buttibrlcad: but Im learning fast, just not long time on linux
20:55.29buttiI have learnd blender very quick *proud*
20:55.49brlcadthat's quite an acheivement :)
20:56.15brlcadbrl-cad's at least as hard to learn, if not harder ;)
20:56.27pooliobrlcad: sushi?
20:56.28brlcadbut once you learn it, the modelers are actually quite proficient
20:56.34brlcadpoolio: yes please?
20:56.54brlcadyou trying to make me hungry? :)
20:57.03buttibrlcad: im sure about that but I need that, no way to running away from that
20:57.21brlcadbutti: so you ran 'tops'?
20:57.32brlcadit should have given you an object name
20:57.36buttiare you guyes from GMT1 zone?
20:57.57buttibrlcad: yes I do
20:58.28brlcadtype this in mged:  rt -F/dev/Xl object_name
20:58.45brlcad(while looking at wireframe)
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21:00.04brlcadbutti: GMT-4/5
21:00.17buttiuh
21:00.23brlcadpoolio: what was the sushi? :)
21:00.24buttiso feilure
21:00.31buttibrlcad: /usr/brlcad/bin/rt -M -F/dev/Xl
21:00.31buttiopendb vm21.dxf;
21:00.31buttitree /home/butti/Blender/Scenes/VM/vm21.g;
21:00.31buttirt:  rt_dirbuild(vm21.dxf) failure
21:00.33buttiRaytrace complete.
21:00.36pooliobrlcad: one of your box's hostnames?
21:00.42brlcadoooh
21:00.55brlcadheh, yeah
21:01.05buttihi guyes you should go est something
21:01.09pooliobrlcad: speaking of which... this sushi is quite tasty.
21:01.12buttieat
21:01.50brlcadbutti: _inside_ mged
21:01.59brlcad"rt -F/dev/Xl object_name"
21:02.13brlcadoutside of mged, it's a little different
21:02.26brlcadyou don't need the path inside mged
21:03.02buttibrlcad: I think I did it
21:03.08buttiinside of mged
21:03.28buttibrlcad: mged>  /rt -F/dev/Xl vm21.dxf
21:03.46buttishould i put all path?
21:03.47brlcadvm21.dxf is not an object name
21:03.54brlcadthat's a file name
21:04.09brlcadand there shouldn't be a / in front of the rt
21:04.35brlcadi really did mean exactly "rt -F/dev/Xl object_name" .. just that you replace object_name with the name of a top-level object
21:04.45brlcadi.e. run "tops" to see your top-level objects
21:05.12buttiok
21:05.29brlcadpoolio: then go saleing on a boat afterwards with your x61t to get more sushi?
21:06.39poolioeh. I'm waiting it out til oct. 26th. Problem is the x61t sale is over then...Also my damn current laptop works fine when it turns on...the issue is it doesnt always turn on
21:07.19brlcadfun
21:11.01buttibrlcad: I ve got some command window open
21:12.36buttibrlcad: and the main window has got a star-line wires
21:16.44brlcadwhich is why I'm trying really hard to get you to run "rt -F/dev/Xl object_name"
21:17.05brlcadtell me what tops says
21:19.18buttinothing
21:19.32buttiI put it in The mged console
21:19.42buttinothing happend
21:19.43brlcaddid you open vm21.g in mged yet?
21:19.55buttiyes
21:19.58buttiI did
21:20.13buttithere was nothing to see just little point
21:20.31brlcadit doesn't show you anything by default....because it's multi-geometry
21:20.49buttiI accept
21:21.02starseeker?
21:21.08brlcadcan you post the .g somewhere?
21:21.08butti:)
21:21.43buttiI have no ftp entry anwhere
21:21.53brlcadftp.brlcad.org
21:21.57buttiI will try throug some service, 1 sec
21:22.54brlcadincoming dir
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21:28.39butticant connect Iwill do something else
21:59.30buttidid you eat something guyes?
21:59.59louipcsome hotdogs
22:00.10buttifinally i upload it to your ftp brlcad
22:01.07buttilouipc: whit some hackmeet and onion?
22:01.41louipcwith some ketchup
22:01.45louipcand bread
22:03.15buttimy cats tell me, jumping on my keyboard: stop to watch this console
22:05.23buttibrlcad: check incoming for .dxf after you eat some hotdog.
22:06.34louipclol
22:11.50buttiIm sitting already 18 h for the display
22:12.03louipchm?
22:12.26buttium
22:12.31buttiuhm
22:14.17buttilouipc: are you developer of this comic app? or just a fanatic?
22:14.28louipcfanatic
22:14.55louipcI'm thinking about doing some development though
22:15.17buttiwhich language it is writen?
22:15.48louipcC, Tcl, some C++
22:16.09buttido you need brl for your work?
22:17.31``Erikcomic app?
22:18.03louipcbutti: I need something like brlcad, but brlcad isn't quite up to spec for my work (yet?)
22:19.08buttiI see, you are lost fanatic :)
22:20.12buttido you work in some design or architecture stuff? or maschines constucting?
22:20.18louipcindeed it's quit comical
22:20.20louipcmachines
22:22.56buttido you know any women working with brl?
22:24.34louipcI've heard complaints about a 'wendy' haha maybe she does
22:27.10``Erikwhy would it matter?
22:27.17``Erikand, um, BRL doesn't exist anymore
22:27.29``Erikit was twisted into ARL
22:27.31``Erika long time ago
22:27.35poolioalloo ``Erik
22:27.42butti:) ..there is no other way to make 3d drawings for free..Im very thankfull to find this comic app.. but I think the next project I will first draw in qcad and then export to blender. The problem with this order is, that you cant change anything if you get some idea to put a new chair into
22:27.44``Erik'92
22:27.49``Erikoi, hoolio
22:28.05louipcshouldn't it be called arlcad now then?
22:28.20``Erikno, shut up
22:28.34``Erikif it were ARL-CAD, we'd have to make it suck goat balls
22:28.42``Erikwe still want it to be useful and worth something
22:28.43``Erik:D
22:28.44``Erik*duck*
22:28.57louipcah
22:29.19pooliouh oh.
22:29.27louipcwendy's coming
22:30.08poolio``Erik: that would mean brlcad wouldn't be brlcad. he'd be arlcad. haha. we have the power to change his name :)
22:30.55louipcyeah that might be a source of confusion
22:31.02``Erikheh, I think he'd rather just keep 'tofu' :)
22:31.11buttipoolio: you guyes are just intrested on hacking this app insted to draw
22:31.24louipcI'm interested in drawing
22:33.02pooliobutti: This chat is primarily used by those who develop the software. Most of us program more than we model, but most of the devs have atleast some experience modelling.
22:34.19buttipoolio: this is maybe not the best situation
22:34.53louipcI'd agree
22:35.12brlcadyeah, I'd revert back to one of my old names before going to arlcad
22:35.23buttii wouldn walk on your nervs, guyes, if i would find some another channel of brl-USERS
22:35.25brlcadheck, arrcad would be better
22:35.27louipcso brlcad needs more users
22:35.31brlcadspeak-like-a-pirate-cad
22:36.44``Erikarrrrrrb8
22:37.02starseekerwe'd have to model a sailing ship to be the new cad logo
22:37.41``Erikhum, mal has a model of an old golden age frigate or something, he could hit the button and push out a png ;)
22:37.47buttinotabe Im very suprised that amarican army using basicly linux for drawing
22:38.02starseeker``Erik:  really?  That's cool!
22:38.03buttithis is a country of windows
22:38.11``Erikbut the research lab has a slew of linux machines
22:38.12buttihehe
22:38.12louipcI think Malorean has a model of a frigate
22:38.12starseeker(the sailing ship, not lack of Linux)
22:38.30``Erikbrlcad and I both have 8 core mac pro's with gobs of memory and monitors
22:38.39louipcmac?
22:38.40``ErikI log into a freebsd box for most of my compiling and testing
22:38.53``Erikand I'm on a 17" powerbook right now *cough* O:-)
22:39.02poolioerrrrrrrrrrrrr
22:39.05buttiuh
22:39.10louipcbutti: what country is that?
22:39.38buttilouipc: make whois
22:39.41``Erikheh, the hostname doesn't give it away? :D
22:39.44louipcI used to say that I'd get a mac but I think now I'd rather shoot myself in the foot
22:39.55``Eriklouipc: why?
22:40.08``Erika few tweaks, and it's reasonably similar to fbsd...
22:40.20brlcadbutti: this is what I was trying to get you to do:  http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/butti.png
22:40.20louipcit's a frankenstein OS
22:40.20buttilouipc: DE
22:40.28``Erikheh
22:40.30louipc``Erik: I'd just use fbsd :P
22:41.01starseekerMacs have graphics to die for, so long as someone else is footing the bill...
22:41.07buttibrlcad: shaded looks well but the wires, which i need are not usable
22:41.07``Erikand linux is a paper mache monster created from a slew of 12yo's shooting spitwads, and windows is just... plain... evil... wrong... *shudder*
22:41.16``Erikmy 12" ibook was $700
22:41.50``Erikmac mini is pretty reasonable, just don't buy the monitor and memory from apple :)
22:41.51starseeker``Erik:  Heh.  Well, for paper mache it does pretty well.  
22:42.12louipc``Erik: gimme a break linux is way better than that
22:42.18buttibrlcad: i will do that now
22:42.42pooliobrlcad: you got the $100 iPhone credit?
22:42.43``Erikheh, not really... I kinda gave up on linux after too much kernel work around '98 or '99... gave fbsd a try and was floored by the awesomeness
22:42.59brlcadbutti: yes, it shows all the polygon edges, that's what I was saying that mged's wireframe is a bit different
22:43.02louipcoh linux sucked until after 2002
22:43.05louipcor so
22:43.10brlcadrtedge (picture in the bottom right) is closer
22:43.11starseeker``Erik:  $700 - cool.  My complaint with Apple is not so much the machine price, but that Every Single App for it (that isn't a unix port) costs money.
22:43.17brlcadpoolio: yeah
22:43.18louipcso I understand that I guess
22:43.39louipcyeah linux finally stuck on me when I started using gentoo
22:43.59louipcthen I was sick of compiling every single app on my slow computer and I'm on archlinux now
22:44.11starseekerThe beauty of Gentoo is that, in theory, you could swap out the kernel and keep right on truckin
22:44.22brlcadstarseeker: huh?  .. not all of them
22:44.29brlcadthere are tons that are free, some ports, some not
22:44.39starseekerbrlcad:  Really?  
22:44.41brlcadmost of the really good ones actually aren't ports, but a few are
22:44.46``Erikloui: I still have debian boxes, redhat boxes, have dorked with ubuntu and gentoo a little... the core suckage is still there :( eSPECIALLY on redhat breeds
22:44.52brlcadyeah, search through http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ and versiontracker.com for starters
22:45.04brlcad(though the latter also does free/shareware)
22:45.08starseekerbrlcad:  Maybe there are more nowadays - I guess it's been a while since I did a MacOS freeware hunt
22:45.35``Erikstarseeker: the only app I've felt compelled to drop $'s on for my mac is 'world of dorkcraft'... otherwise, it's a shiny unix machine for me :
22:46.03brlcadit's just about any app you have on linux, every app on bsd, and maybe a third of the apps on windows (.. and of course the handful of mac-only)
22:46.04starseekersweeet.
22:46.14buttibrlcad: i still dont get the picture...but I see that i cant work with that how I nee
22:46.16louipcyeah I've never been enthused with debian or redhat
22:46.32louipcbut if you dare - try archlinux it's quite different
22:46.37starseekerThat's really cool.  I guess my last major run-in with Macs was just before OSX became the big thing
22:46.45``Erika lot of my bigger problems are with the kernel proper. and redhat 'fixes' their kernel images to be far more fucked up
22:46.55louipclol
22:46.57starseekerNice to see it getting more friendly :) :)
22:47.09starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks for the heads up!
22:47.14brlcadbutti: for what it's worth -- that model you have is exceptionally trivial -- it translates to CSG pretty directly and would not have all the lines like that if it were re-modeled in brl-cad
22:47.34brlcadbutti: it has all of the lines because it's a dxf conversion and not modeled using primitives
22:48.14starseekerdoggone it, now the next computer replacement cycle I'm going to have to look at a Mac...
22:48.18buttibrlcad: but it create wires which are not exist in my model
22:48.33brlcadthey do exist
22:48.36buttithats a point
22:48.54brlcadthose are the edges to the polygons that make up the object
22:49.08louipcbutti: you modeled in blender yeah?
22:49.16brlcadthe only difference is that brl-cad shows them to you whereas something like blender will hide the internal edges
22:49.20buttilouipc: yes
22:49.31louipcyeah even a flat square is made up of two triangles
22:49.33brlcadthe edges are still there, even in blender
22:49.46``Erikwill turning on 'smoothing' in the bot "fix" it?
22:49.48louipcthere's a function in blender which you can manipulate those
22:49.53brlcadnah
22:49.55buttibrlcad: i can understand created wires on some round objects, but not on simpe primes
22:50.10brlcadit needs to be implicit prims if you want the mged wire to be minimal
22:51.05brlcadbutti: how about the hidden-line rendering in the bottom right corner of that screenshot -- is that closer to what you are looking for?
22:51.06buttiso you mean some vertics are not closed?
22:51.09``Erik<-- only half paying attention... is it the wireframe display (*_plot) being discussed?
22:51.30buttibrlcad: yes it is
22:52.15brlcad``Erik: yeah, he's (understandly) not happy with the mged wireframe .. particularly that it doesn't hide the internel mesh edges (and probably would next want hidden-edge detection to hide those as well)
22:52.40``Erikheh, it's that or seeing the cutters, too... heh
22:52.42brlcadbutti: that's "rtedge" - you can run rtedge on any model as needed if visualization is your goal
22:53.02brlcadyeah, he's not even gotten to doing an csg yet
22:53.19brlcadbutti: here's what it would look like with primitives: http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
22:53.22buttibrlcad: it is possible to work with is rightside image this way: change of high of some objects and measure the outside wires?
22:53.42brlcadand a more complex rtedge: http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
22:54.30brlcadbutti: that would be dimensioning .. and is pretty much a drafting requirement; brl-cad isn't strongly suited to drafting at the moment, but it's on the todo list
22:54.32buttibrlcad: the first one is that what i would like to reach
22:55.02buttijessus, volks i will loos my work if if if
22:55.26brlcadbutti: the first one is just modeling something simple using brl-cad directly
22:55.31brlcadnot a dxf conversion
22:55.50buttiI understand
22:56.24starseekerfigures, I dove into Linux without looking back just when it started getting good...
22:56.25brlcadmaybe give the tutorials a try on the main website:  http://brlcad.org .. read the Documentation links 1, 2, and 3
22:56.26buttibrlcad: how is it with import .obj into brl?
22:56.33brlcadsame problem, that's a mesh format
22:56.39brlcadbrl-cad doesn't like meshes
22:56.42louipcoh I guess I would get a mac if I wanted to play games... or use some of that proprietary software that's out there
22:57.24buttiok
22:57.38starseekerlouipc:  For some of what I do (Axiom/Lisp) Linux is still the primary platform, but for things like presentations, documents, etc it's nice to have everything "just work" to save time
22:57.47brlcadyou can view meshes (as you've seen), but they're a pain in the ass to work with and maintain solid geometry
22:59.24poolio``Erik: heh, I tried that when I was trying to learn emacs/lisp and just ended up crying.
22:59.36``Erikheh
22:59.38buttibrlcad: I think you gave me very much informations which I know to use...So I think the next step for me is to draw the model from the beginning. this project is quit easy to draw as would be in original
23:00.00``Erik<-- comfortable with scheme, but is a vim guy, so the twisted differences between scheme and common lisp, plus trying to learn emacs... is interesting :)
23:00.00buttibrlcad: no cad prog likes meshes how I know
23:00.02louipcindeed!
23:00.03butti:(
23:00.32starseeker``Erik:  Where's sbcl running?
23:00.53``Erikon my fbsd box, same as the emacs
23:01.00poolio``Erik: you have taken the emacs learning path!? Coming from what?
23:01.18starseekerAh :-)
23:01.22``Erikvim
23:01.33poolio``Erik: that's what I use now. Tell me how it goes please.
23:01.43``Erikso far, not so impressive
23:02.04starseeker``Erik:  If your brain doesn't explode, you will have reached some kind of higher mental plane knowing both vim and Emacs ;-)
23:02.13brlcadbutti: some of the commercial CAD systems with billions behind their development don't do too bad with meshes..
23:02.14``Erikthe major arguments all kinda fall apart when ya get to 'em :/ but I'm sure the same goes for the other direction
23:02.30brlcadand if you have a billion dollars lying around, I'd be happy to make brl-cad work well with meshes
23:02.35brlcadjust for you even
23:02.38starseekerhehe
23:02.59pooliobrlcad: aren't you the generous one!
23:03.03brlcadi am!
23:03.12poolioHeh, we don't need that inflation
23:03.28starseeker(he might be actually - some tasks of that nature are HARD)
23:03.35``Erikheh, did barnie explode? :D
23:03.52starseekerbarnie?
23:04.12``Erikyeah, y'know, big purple dinosaur
23:04.16``Erikmakes kids retarded
23:04.17starseekerwe can only hope
23:04.20buttibrlcad: how it ist whith measuring of objects?
23:04.21brlcad``Erik: you're probably still pretty darn far away from any sort of efficiency
23:04.54brlcadespecially if you still didn't see the diff between meta keybinding commands and modalities in vim
23:04.59``Erikobviously, but I'm still working at it... *shrug* just noting that the big arguments emacs advocates put forwards... well, are bunk :)
23:05.08brlcadsuch as?
23:05.17``Erikemacs is starting to seem kinda modal when I want the meta key *cough*
23:05.22brlcadmodalities is really the only/pain difference
23:06.24brlcadvim is modal, emacs is non-modal during editing, quasi-modal (actual term for it) when invoking commands
23:06.26``Erikand the buffers keep rearranging themselves and changing which ones are visible or hidden
23:07.00``Erikhmmm, that means modal, dude :D *duck*
23:07.07brlcadit doesn't
23:07.13brlcadactually has a defined meaning
23:07.26brlcadquasimodal is very different from modal
23:07.46brlcadand still, only applies to actions being taken -- editing/use is still non-modal
23:09.04``Erikthe thing I trip up on most is having to use multiple keys or moving my hand to move the cursor, I miss the home row fast navigation... I suppose when my left pinky starts figuring out what to do, it'll get easier
23:09.11brlcadi'm not even arguing that it's better or worse, but it is definitely different in the impact and different type of modality interface
23:09.29``Erik*shrug* but I'm still sticking with it
23:09.43brlcadyeah, that's just memory/familiarity - that part is no diff to vim really
23:10.33``Erik"jjj^H^H^H<down><down><down>" hehehhe :D
23:11.00brlcadsame goes for learning to manage your buffers, tweaking settings if auto-buffer arrangement isn't your style
23:11.16brlcadctrl-n/p
23:11.21brlcadnext/previous line
23:11.30brlcadjust like console
23:11.41``Erik<-- set -o vi
23:11.48brlcadyeah, that's nuts :)
23:11.50``Eriklater, butti :)
23:11.57buttibye
23:11.58brlcadcya butti
23:12.53brlcadpoor guy, any job that depends on learning a new cad package (*any* new cad package) in under 10 days is nuts
23:13.01brlcad:)
23:13.05``Erikludicrous even
23:13.31``Erikjust remember to put on your seat belt if going to ludicrous speed
23:26.29brlcadbutti: fyi, the units on your model are wrong, unless you intentionally modeled something about 20mm in size .. have to scale it up by about a factor of 1000
23:26.58brlcadand it has several distinct objects intersecting that shouldn't
23:37.06CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: rtedge seems to get stuck in a loop at the end of rendering, has to be killed
23:38.58``Erikum
23:39.19``Erikunder what circumstances?
23:40.01brlcadseems any rtedge I run
23:40.16``ErikO.o 2 cpu?
23:40.19brlcadit gets to completion, sends everything to the framebuffer and then just hangs
23:40.22brlcadyeah, 2
23:40.30``Erikweird
23:40.51brlcadhm -P1 works
23:42.26``Erikhum
23:42.34``Erikor it might be related to the image saving in libbu
23:42.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: works with -P1
23:42.56``ErikI'll dork with it tomorrow, I'm watching dr who, then cartoons, then sleep
23:42.58brlcadrt is fine
23:42.59``Erik:D
23:43.15brlcadand this is rendering to framebuffer, not file
23:43.27``Erikhum, ok
23:52.47brlcadhm, perhaps a race condition on lastlinedone
23:53.38brlcadmaybe just because the lines don't have to be in order
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071022

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071022

00:13.34CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: eliminate vararg and non-ansi cray-specific support code
00:21.54brlcadFYI, if you run screen on .bz, I've made a simple 'rx' script that reattaches you to your existing screen session
00:31.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: ws expand for readability
00:33.45``ErikO.o "screen -r" is that tricky?
00:40.22brlcadnot in the least
00:40.37brlcadit's just a shorthand that saves the typing (for what is a fairly frequent command for me)
00:41.04brlcadtwo chars vs 12-22 chars
00:42.13brlcadit does an -x instead of an -r, I like em in parallel myself
00:48.48brlcaddear god man
00:49.03brlcadit's a toolbox essential
00:49.18brlcadalmost as necessary as learning a decent editor
00:55.25starseekerheh - and I thought using fluxbox was going minimalist on the graphical desktop side... ;-)
00:55.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: don't call va_start until after making sure it's not a null format
00:58.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/libbu/bomb.c include/bu.h):
00:58.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: add a new bu_exit() function that never returns. this function differs from
00:58.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: bu_bomb() in that it supports an error code and printf style arguments. it
00:58.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: should not be used for 'exceptional' exit conditions where stability and
00:58.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: validity are in question; it should be used when you simply want to politely
00:58.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: exit the application after printing a message (like printing application usage
00:58.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: and exiting).
00:59.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: oops, remove debugging
01:02.11starseekerbrlcad:  If you can remember this far back, how long did it take you for the key bindings to become second nature on screen?
01:03.27brlcadhm, a few days iirc
01:03.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c: stfu about the longjmp handler being taken. the user doesn't care and the message is rather misleading.
01:03.59brlcadgetting used to ctrl-a a  and ctrl-a e were the tricky ones as I use them all the time
01:04.09brlcadbut now it's pretty fluid whether i'm in screen or not
01:04.31starseekerCool.
01:04.56brlcadyou'll want to learn ctrl-a f for flow control and ctrl-a F to "resize" the screen window (if you reattach from a terminal of a different size)
01:05.12brlcadit's basically persistent shell sessions, so long as the machine stays up
01:05.46brlcadso I can be on irc 24/7 or have instant access to various remote servers that I need, dedicated windows to watch various log files, etc
01:06.56starseekerAh, OK.  Very nice!
01:07.39starseekerI can definitely see where this would help avoid the need to use the mouse...
01:07.56brlcadparticularly if you run screen on a server that's always up (e.g. .bz) then you can even ssh out from there to various hosts and keep windows open to them
01:08.38brlcadyou can then attach to that session on the remote server from anywhere and get back to your "console workspace"
01:09.22starseekerSo a screen "session" would consist of all the windows open in that particular instance of screen?
01:09.23brlcadother useful commands are creating a new screen (ctrl-a c) and navigating (ctrl-a n or p)
01:09.39brlcadyeah
01:09.42brlcadthey all persist
01:10.09starseekerThat's nifty.
01:10.44starseekerOn a machine without an X server, this has to be a "must"
01:10.53brlcadso, for example, I log into .bz where my screen session consists of one context that has irssi always running, another has e-mail, another has various logfiles being watched, and then others are created/destroyed as needed depending on things I'm working on
01:11.39brlcadeven with an X server .. it's low overhead, mouseless, efficient console/workspace management
01:12.28starseekerInteresting - like the command line itself, it gives a considerable efficiency increase for a small initial educational investment
01:13.52starseekerWhich email client do you use - Mutt?
01:14.53brlcadheh, I'm still a pine die hard
01:15.11starseekerHehe - haven't used pine since my undergrad days
01:15.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
01:15.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: user-visible change.. removed longjmp warning message from applications that was
01:15.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: called during bu_bomb's where an application exception handler was registered.
01:15.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: this was a common cause for confusion in the converters that use the jump
01:15.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: handler during normal operations quite frequently -- made it look like the
01:15.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: application was repeatedly 'crashing' during conversion yet the application
01:15.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: would keep processing.
01:15.44starseekerI should try Mutt - right now I'm using thunderbird and it gets on my nerves sometimes...
01:15.47brlcadI've used mutt, it's fine .. but I rather like pine's no-nonesense simplicity (which obviously removes a lot of functionality)
01:16.22brlcada list of messages, message folders, basic attachment support, I'm good
01:17.12brlcadI rather like Apple Mail as well, incremental searching of all mailboxes in realtime is shibby cool
01:17.35starseekersweet
01:17.44brlcadnice to see that applications are finally starting to learn from emacs' incremental searching that was done 20 years ago :)
01:18.03starseekerheh - some things do seem to catch on slow, don't they?
01:18.27brlcadyeah, like brl-cad and a nice gui ;)
01:18.34starseekerhehe
01:19.31starseekerat the very least, it mixes VTK and QT
01:19.35brlcadhm, I wonder what kind of response I'd get if I started a project where I'd pay people to find and fix bugs
01:20.07brlcadsomething like $1 to find them and $10 if they provide a fix
01:20.39brlcadthe bugs would have to be approved beforehand so someone doesn't just dump 1000 bugs down and expect 10000 in payment of course, but I think something like that might work
01:20.52``Eriksome 'bugs' are opinion :/
01:20.58starseekerThat was my thought
01:21.07brlcadyep, exactly why they'd have to be approved
01:21.42starseekerIt might have some potential, both for utility and as an advertising mechanism
01:22.18brlcadcould use the tracker system .. the poster of the message would get the $1, and the first to attach a patch (after the tracker state went from submitted to acknowledged) would get a paypal
01:22.43starseekerwell, first patch that was verified to fix the bug
01:23.27brlcadI could see putting 1k towards something like this
01:23.36brlcadget 100 bugs fixed
01:24.42starseekerMight be worth a shot
01:25.23brlcadthe idea would be to only approve bugs that would likely take about an hour to find the bug, create a patch, and document it
01:25.57starseekerRight.  Spelling errors in comments need not apply
01:26.15brlcadwould have to quantify that into the instructions of course -- don't care if the bug is something like a documentation bug, "manual page is missing -g option"
01:26.27brlcadyeah, though I certainly wouldn't call that a bug
01:26.51starseekerme either, but people can have surprisingly "elastic" definitions at times...
01:27.26brlcada bug is a run-time flaw that either causes a crash/corruption, or is run-time behavior that contradicts the documented and expected behavior
01:27.53starseekerOh, I was wondering earlier - has the use of unit testing in BRL-CAD ever been considered?
01:27.58starseekerThat's a good definition
01:28.39brlcadthere are also compilation bugs and documentation bugs, but those rarely ever take more than a couple minutes
01:28.45brlcad(to identify and fix)
01:28.50starseekerYep.
01:29.43brlcadyeah, unit testing has been extensively considered..
01:30.03brlcadright now, it's just a bunch of simple integration tests that tests overall functionality
01:30.27brlcadwith the idea that the tests would be expanded to even more and more tests, particularly as issues are found
01:31.11starseekerOK.
01:31.14brlcadnow as to doing actual code unit testing, the issue there has always been that there's about a million lines of existing code, thousands of "units" that one would want to test, and nobody wants to write/maintain that code at the moment
01:31.27starseekerFigured :-)
01:31.56brlcadit's enough work as it is just to ensure that all the public functions are even documented, much less write code that properly tests each one
01:32.35brlcadso, we have the minimal maintenance approach -- tests at a higher level, integration tests that make sure apps end up doing what they're expected to do
01:32.46starseekerMakes sense.
01:33.47brlcadstill could be way better than what we have, and if someone pulled up a test generator that wrote a test for each routine, it could be a laundry list to fill in the guts for each test as people feel like it
01:34.52brlcaddid something "vaguely" related with the new flawfinder 'test' that is in the regression suite -- it runs flawfinder and if there are any items reported at/above the level specified, it means that someone made a function call that wasn't allowed (like bob a few days ago)
01:35.26starseekerAh :-)
01:35.35brlcadhad to change a few hundred instances of code just to get it down to level 5, but that was good/necessary code cleanup
01:36.04brlcadI should have level 4 done soon, fixed about 700 issues with about 400 remaining
01:36.15starseekerImpressive.
01:36.32brlcadthat's probably a good balance.. level 3 is just flawfinder being picky :)
01:36.43starseekerMost of these were never triggered by "normal" BRL-CAD use?
01:37.05brlcadoh, flawfinder just does a static code analysis
01:37.12starseekerOh, OK.
01:37.24brlcadit looks that you're using function BLAH, and BLAH is in it's level N list
01:37.51brlcade.g. you're using strcmp, which is generally unsafe .. should use strncmp to make sure you don't read past your memory buffer
01:38.17starseekerGotcha.
01:38.26brlcadso whether they're actually security holes or not depends massively on how the logic is structured
01:39.13brlcadbut they're certainly "potentially" exploitable situations that are almost never absolutely necessary, so we can eliminate the ones we have and keep it at a given level (e.g. level 4)
01:39.35brlcadsplint blew chunks on brl-cad's code last I tried it
01:39.39brlcadhad trouble parsing several files
01:39.50starseekerhmm.  pity
01:40.04starseekertheir parser isn't up to snuff?
01:40.06brlcadwould be worth trying again, that was years ago
01:40.34brlcadwould make for yet another good test to add after getting flawfinder down to level 3 issues only
01:41.02brlcadflawfinder was nice because I could just add it to the sourcebase as it's just a few thousand line perl script
01:41.14brlcads/perl/python/
01:41.17starseekerAh, that is nice.
01:41.24brlcad1877 lines
01:41.28brlcader 1866
01:43.01starseekerIIRC someone had a one line perl script to decode the Matrix DVD back when the whole DeCSS thing was all the rage...
01:43.16brlcadyeah, you can do some really crazy stuff
01:44.07brlcadI have several perl programs that I've gone back to after many many years have passed, with absolutely no idea what the code does other than what the comments say
01:44.50brlcadthey sure can be fast and compact to write though ... great for little cleanup and temporary processing tasks
01:45.17starseekerIf there's some way to measure how much like line noise legal program source code can be made to look as a function of the language, I'll bet Perl wins
01:45.20starseekertrue
01:46.05brlcadthat's how the majority of BRL-CAD's files got a standard header and footer that were auto-populated with existing documentation pulled from within the file's existing contents including doxygen labels
01:46.20starseeker:-)
01:46.29brlcadas well as a few other processing tasks I've had to do over the years
01:46.54brlcadthings that awk/sed/find -exec/and friends couldn't easily handle
01:48.20starseekerJust curious - did you pick up all the various tools as you worked on BRL-CAD, or did you learn them before that?
01:48.28brlcadboth
01:48.43brlcadsome before, some after
01:49.36starseekerImpressive.
01:49.37brlcadover the years, just learning the tools as needed depending on what is generally best for the job instead of trying to make the tools I know fit the job
01:49.51starseekerThat's the way to do it.
01:50.00starseekerI wish that approach was more common
01:50.40brlcadit really helps to know/learn several different styles of programming languages too, just gives you a better fundamental understanding
01:50.55brlcadand not just procedural and object-oriented
01:51.19starseekerIndeed.
01:51.31brlcadthough those are certainly really great starts
01:51.52starseekerWe had a semester in college where they went over a few different languages, but I think they need to do a lot more of it.
01:53.53brlcadthis "liberal arts" that you speak of.. it confuses me
01:54.03brlcadwhat engineering department do they teach that in? :)
01:54.07starseekerhehe
01:54.32starseekerGuess I should have said "typical undergraduate education:
01:54.35brlcadj/k, I loved some of my arts and crafts classes :)
01:54.49MaloeranLiberal arts, that must be part of web design
01:54.54brlcadthe breadth of knowledge is impressive
01:55.14starseekerActually, my advanced English class was a lot of fun.  (Don't tell any of my physics peers I said so though...)
01:55.32starseekerTurns out it really sucked to be a contemporary of Shakespeare
01:56.52starseekerEveryone else kinda got swamped in the history books, despite some decent writers being around...
01:56.53brlcadyeah, I can see that .. my advanced Spanish class was a lot of fun too .. read a book a week and write an in-depth report on it that everyone discusses
01:57.24starseekerCool :-)
01:58.05starseekeror "muy bien" as it were
01:58.36brlcadtook the placement test for kicks, but then found out I almost aced it and placed out of two years of the full-time undergrad courses .. so my courses actually counted towards my engineering "language requirements" at that level just as if it were an english course
01:59.01starseekerSweet
01:59.04pooliocollege. :)
01:59.11brlcadwas 4 classes away from a degree in spanish
01:59.18brlcaddunno wtf I would have ever done with that though :)
01:59.48starseekerI'm convinced the second AP test I took in English is proof that essay grading is impossible to do correctly...
02:00.17starseekerbrlcad:  Well, you could translate the BRL-CAD docs :-)
02:00.33brlcadand those last 4 classes would have been utter hell .. learning the etimology and history of the language, reading books in "old spanish" and matching them to the context of the times they were written in so that language analyses could be performed, etc .. bleh
02:00.44starseekerOuch
02:01.18poolioI'm only...like 30 classes away from any degree
02:01.31starseekerpoolio:  Hang in there :-)
02:01.42brlcadonce you get past the 'basic comprehension' phase and get into the "study of spanish" as a language, the fun level drops fast :)
02:01.48brlcadpoolio: hehe
02:01.51poolioAnd I'm having second thoughts on my major, so yeah...
02:02.00starseekerpoolio:  What's your current major?
02:02.10poolioI'm currently ECE--Electrical and Computer Engineering
02:02.36starseekerThat can be cool, especially if you like the lower level work.
02:03.06brlcadI remember having that thought my first year.. "Hmm.. 6 classes + electives and I have a BA in Spanish... or 20+ classes + electives and I have a BS"
02:03.08poolioThing is I don't, I'm more of an algorithms dude. But I'm not really interested in pure CS. I'm thinking of just doing biology or some such
02:03.32starseeker(me thinks the CADR Lisp Machines are neat but prefers to work with software - fewer burned fingers and mistakes are easier to fix.)
02:03.49brlcadpoolio: applied mathematics? :)
02:03.51starseekerBiology is a good field to go into - lots of growth
02:03.56poolioAlways :)
02:04.21pooliobrlcad: eh, I'm not that hardcore into math. I thought I was really into AI for a while but I'm not so sure anymore.
02:04.37brlcadheh
02:04.42poolioThe issue is my school is mainly CS/Engineering based so majoring in something else here isn't going to look very good in the future
02:04.48brlcadwell, that's the great part of college, find what you really love
02:05.16poolioHope to
02:05.21starseekerMy advice would be to follow what you want to do - forcing yourself to do something you don't like usually doesn't pay off in the long run
02:05.23brlcadthere was one guy in my graduating class that came in dead-set on some engineering discipline iirc, or maybe history
02:06.03starseekerTransferring schools isn't unheard of by any means, if your school isn't strong in what you want
02:06.07brlcadhe went away one summer and got a job at a state park after the first semester, and after that he was dead set on a carrier in being a state park ranger
02:06.30starseeker:-)
02:06.40starseekerI can see where that would have it's perks.
02:06.42brlcadand all of his classes afterwards were directly in support of that (and they of course hired him on the spot, he was dead passionate about it)
02:07.28pooliothat's awesome
02:07.34poolioI've been mountain biking a ton in a local state park
02:09.04starseekerWell, I'd better hit the hay - this next week is going to be a doozie.
02:09.09starseekerThanks all - good stuff!
02:11.39poolionite
02:24.55brlcadpoolio: awesome
02:25.04brlcadsee ya guys
03:57.23pooliobrlcad: you still around? I"m getting a mildly confusing linker error
03:57.45poolio/home/poolio/brlcad/src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g: error while loading shared libraries: librt.so.19: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
03:57.59poolio(during build)
04:29.38brlcadjeez
04:30.06brlcadwth is causing that .. you're not the first to report that issue, yet I don't have a single system that shows that problem
04:30.50louipcwhat's the test?
04:30.54brlcadtry removing the two LD_LIB lines in db/Makefile.am
04:31.26louipcoh build error
04:32.15brlcadit's trying to run the asc2g converter in db to generate the example .g files -- to do that, libtool creates an lt-asc2g that is supposed to work with the as-yet-not-installed libraries .. "some" change in the linking logic seems to be provoking libtool to failure on some subset of systems
04:34.03brlcadpresumably some consistent (bugged) version of libtool or some distro with the same config setup
04:35.50louipcwhy not just distribute .g files instead of converting?
04:36.33brlcadhave thought about it
04:36.47brlcadin part so that the contents of the files can be tracked in revision control
04:36.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/solids.sh: more consistent echo output, use rt suffix for the solids.rt render script
04:36.53brlcadinstead of being binary files
04:37.00louipcah right
04:37.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/ (14 files): more consistent echo output
04:37.55brlcadother part is in part to verify that compilation succeeded prior to installation
04:38.40brlcadjust a pita to fight libtool issues with what it tries to keep track of
04:39.22brlcadif I could get a system to reproduce the error, I could probably find a work-around fix
04:39.22louipcyes I've heard of libtool issues heh
04:39.35brlcadyeah, don't get me started on libtool
04:39.51brlcadit's the weakest of the (already flaky) autotools build chain
04:40.11brlcadstill useful overall, but sometimes a royal pita
04:45.06pooliobrlcad: remove the LD_LIBRARY_PATH lines?
04:45.35poolioand why in db/Makefile.am? Isn't the issue with src/conv/.libs/lt-asc2g?
04:46.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/dxf-g.c:
04:46.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: refactor and use the new bu_exit() instead of bombing on normal exit conditions.
04:46.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: also fix a bug where specifying the the same filename for the dxf and g file
04:46.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: would result in it actually 'working' because it called wdb_open() to
04:46.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: open/create the the .g output file before checking if the dxf exists. really
04:46.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: minor but happened to run into it when 'dxf-g asdf asdf' surprisingly completed
04:46.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: successfuly
05:23.44brlcadugh, nearly 2000 instances of bu_bomb to check
05:23.58poolioeek.
05:24.09pooliois this for flawfindger or some such?
05:24.29poolios/flawfindger/flawfinder
05:31.52brlcadno, I changed the interface
05:32.27poolioeek. I think that effects my tiny portion of code too
05:32.50brlcadbu_bomb() was a general catch-all application abort, initially only intended as a means to abort from generally unrecoverable situations (like being out of memory or detecting outright memory corruption)
05:33.08brlcadover the years, it grew to be a convenient means to abort with a message
05:34.07brlcadwill now that we have automatic crash-report generation, it really needed to distinguish between the core critical aborts (like corruption) and 'normal' application exits
05:34.40pooliowhat automatic crash-report generation do you have?
05:34.49brlcadso there's a new bu_exit() routine .. so I have to go through the 2000 or so callers of bu_bomb() one at a time and determine if it's something that would be potentially useful to have a crash report of
05:35.54poolioDid you write this up somewhere or is this brand new?
05:35.59brlcadbrand new
05:36.13poolioAnd so bu_bomb does the stack trace and what not, bu_exit() exits with a message?
05:36.23brlcadyeah
05:36.51pooliomakes sense. have fun :)
05:36.55brlcadheh
05:37.07brlcadcode gardening
05:37.13brlcadhappens
05:37.19pooliothat's what interns are for
05:37.38brlcadsometimes
05:37.55brlcadI generally like to put interns on stuff that's actually fun
05:38.24poolioHeh. I'm very happy about that :)
05:38.55brlcaddon't always succeed, but I certainly try :)
05:40.17brlcadsome kids just aren't motivated by code, or aren't capable of touching/editing code safely
05:42.33poolioyeah...but don't the interns kind of choose what they're interested in based on their skills? Like are you given interns to put to work or is it some sort of selection process?
05:46.12brlcad'yes'
05:47.26brlcadit's a mix, an exceptional mix of talent .. and depends heavily on whether they are hs or college usually (or at least how much experience they have thinking for themselves)
05:49.38pooliowell, I must sleep. 9:30 class tomorrow. ta ta
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06:33.05*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 imminent
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08:37.40brlcadyeah, I shoudl probably do that too
08:43.56Z80-Boybrlcad: have you heard computer generated singing?
08:44.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h nmg.h): tweak debug log messages for consistency
08:44.36Z80-Boyhttp://cslu.cse.ogi.edu/tts/flinger/jukebox/song10.mp3
08:44.43Z80-Boyhttp://cslu.cse.ogi.edu/tts/flinger/jukebox/song1.mp3
08:46.21Z80-BoyI wrote a string synthesizer a C program that takes a guitar tab in ASCII on stdin and spits a .wav file on the stdout
08:46.34Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/gut_feeling.mp3
08:48.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (14 files):
08:48.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: first 10% of the review of the bu_bomb() instances. updating many to bu_exit()
08:48.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: for the instances where the error or exit condition aren't catastrophic errors
08:48.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: (i.e. they wouldn't benefit from having a stack trace of how we got into that
08:48.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: state code-wise). this also makes it easier to refactor usages of log & exit
08:48.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: too to the new routine.
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08:52.58CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/canon/png-ipu.c: more bu_bomb to bu_exit conversions
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09:07.27butti_he all
09:07.54butti_brlcad: 20 mm must be something about 20 m..Blender has no units at all
09:08.20butti_brlcad: just grids whit 1 unit
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09:11.24buttibrlcad: mabe its enogh to scall it 1mm to 1m..thats all
09:22.23buttibrlcad: I would be very intrested to learn about this software and I will ask you for help not only one time. For this moment,  Im runnig already another taktic. No time for brlcad :(. My Project needs to be finished (some objects must be chenge and new will coming. So if plan to make something from this file, which I gave you, pls dont, is not ready yet. I will draw in qcad each view in 2d. I will take a shot from blender wires view and take the
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09:42.32buttibrlcad: do you know the software javawiew? I love to work with that. Lot of inspirations comes from this app to me. It  has almost the same gui. It is an app. which is working with mathematical formel and its make quit the same what all 3d progs  doing. It is lovely. Take a look at that! http://www.javaview.de/
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14:09.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nmg.c: use bu_exit() instead of bu_log() on unknown argument (I think that's what was intended... segfaults using bu_log with given args)
14:25.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: make i unsigned to match nsemaphores
14:46.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/htester.c:
14:46.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: Add missing include for bu.h. Fixed sign issues. Rearranged and modernized.
14:46.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: Added -v (version) flag and improved argument checking.
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15:35.37CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: start stubbing in the -c stuff
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15:42.15``Erikoi, hoolio
15:58.28bpoolemornin'
16:13.27brlcadbutti: heh, blender does have units, just doesn't expose them very well
16:13.40brlcadbutti: no, I'm not familiar with javawiew
16:15.37butti<PROTECTED>
16:15.41brlcadahh, it's like mathematica's plugin, but in java
16:15.50brlcadshame it's not open source
16:17.02buttibrlcad: you cant change the units to meter or zoll,,this is like that an im gald about that
16:17.46brlcadit wasn't a problem, it's trivial to scale it up even after importing into brl-cad
16:18.21buttisure
16:18.48``Erik*shudder*
16:18.53brlcadI noticed because rtedge takes the absolute size into account when determining whether to draw an edge -- several of the features were "too small" when I first rendered it
16:19.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: crude -c functionality
16:19.19``Erikyes, rtedge should use like a fraction of scene bounding sphere or something O.o
16:19.44``Erik*shudder* don't look at that patch, I'm fighting ugly with ugly to get something in their hands fast, and am starting to fix it...
16:19.57``Erikoh, um, heh, that's right, I was gonna look at that :D
16:20.12brlcadi won't, I"m on a bu_exit() frenzy probably for the rest of the day
16:20.40``Erikyeah, I had to fix one of those in src/conv/g-nmg.c O.o
16:20.40brlcaddifferent semaphore bug
16:21.00``Erikbu_log(1, "blah", argv[0]); ? O.o
16:21.27brlcadthere's "some" bug in rt at least where it'll crash during raytrace, something is either not being protected or something in semaphore.c has changed that breaks it
16:21.50``Erikohhh, the src/libbu/semaphore.c ? heh, no, I'm just fixing trivial Wall type errors there
16:21.55brlcadit's exceptionally random, and seems to only happen a few % of the time, so I've not been able to provoke it to find it
16:22.09``Erikhum, -p3000 help expose it?
16:23.07brlcadif I put rt in a while loop rendering to /dev/null, it usually can happen anywhere from a few dozen to few hundred iterations (and sometimes not even then)
16:23.49``Erikdoes the bomb code catch unexpected seggies and bus faults?
16:24.51``Erikhum, tcl85b1 triggers portaudit, 'ReadImage' has known buffer overflow issues O.o
16:25.22brlcadno, I didn't want to add the signal handlers before release until all the issues were sorted out with bu_bomb()
16:26.22brlcadplus wasn't positive about the scope of impact and how it'd play if there were multiple signal handlers installed
16:26.28``ErikI guess pick a fast machine multiproc and ask rt to render 1e6 frames in gdb or dbx or something? :)
16:26.52``Erikwithout a stack trace or something, it'd all be guessing
16:27.12brlcadI got stack traces.. they're just .. bizarre
16:27.42``Erikurl?
16:28.34brlcadhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m41c678a9
16:28.54brlcadthe moncount was just because I made a profile build, happens with/without it
16:29.32brlcadthe *parent* thread crashed there.. which should be just quietly waiting for the threads to exit
16:29.38``ErikO.o
16:29.46brlcadand that was probably 1/3 into the ray-trace
16:29.56``Erikheh, g_arb.c:798 is a variable decl on my source O.o
16:30.22brlcadthat line changes from crash to crash
16:30.33``Erikheh
16:30.34brlcadthread 0 is usually the one that crashes though
16:30.39``Erikonly tested on a hackintosh?
16:30.53``Erik<-- tends to favor bugchasing on bsd or even leenewx to a mac :/
16:32.00``Erikfind . -name '*.[ch]' | xargs sed -i.bak 's/register //g' && cvs -z3 commit -m "damnit."
16:32.01``Erik*cough*
16:32.02``ErikO:-)
16:32.54``Erikmake dist && open http://sf.net/projects/brlcad # damnit. *cough* O:-)
16:33.56``Erikhum
16:34.20brlcadlike I said, I can't reliably reproduce it
16:34.24``Erikwith the rtedge not quitting issue, click closing the fb exist the program with $? 0
16:34.59brlcadeverytime I make a clean build with debug symbols, it seems to work, or the bt in gdb is meaningless
16:35.46brlcadI ran a test removing all the register keywords many years ago .. it actually slowed down significantly
16:36.10brlcadwould be interesting to see if it's still the case
16:36.14``ErikO.O "rtedge -F/dev/X havoc.g havoc" lingers the window
16:36.28brlcadlinger is default
16:36.29``Erikbut the program exits immediately after the performance stuff is printed
16:36.36``Erikyeah, but -F/dev/X should over-ride that
16:36.38``Erikno?
16:36.46brlcadno, that's just X with defaults
16:37.00brlcadXl would force linger on (if it weren't the default)
16:37.47Z80-Boybrlcad: I should actually download the newest code and try out if the arbn bug is now gone in my situation
16:37.57``Erikand how do you force linger OFF, then?
16:38.07brlcadand /dev/Xt
16:38.15brlcadtransient vs lingering
16:38.20Z80-BoyThe poll is missing the entry "I use it for so long that I don't remember anymore"
16:38.35brlcadZ80-Boy: yeah, should be fixed now
16:39.51Z80-BoyCOngrats to putting up the new website
16:41.33brlcadit's still not quite ready, several issues to sort out
16:41.49brlcadbut I'd like more eyes on it to see how it renders
16:43.06Z80-BoyI use links so it doesn't render
16:43.17Z80-BoyIt's just all gray
16:44.34``Erikthat's neat
16:45.22``Erikoh
16:45.25``Erikrt does it for me, too
16:46.34``Erik"rt havoc.g havoc" doesn't exit, but if I give it -F/dev/X -F/dev/Xl or -F/dev/Xt, it does exit when it should
17:36.33brlcadZ80-Boy: screenshot?
17:37.44brlcad``Erik: using full cpu?
17:38.09*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@99.233.193.42)
17:38.13brlcadrtedge was using full-cpu and never printed the raytrace complete message
17:38.28yukonbobHello, whirled.
17:38.35``Erikdidn't look
17:39.34``Erikhum, it's holding the cpu load up against 1
17:42.49``Eriksame behavior with rt
17:43.13``Erikand right click releases the program
17:43.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (31 files in 5 dirs):
17:43.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: whoosh, another 10% complete on the bu_bomb to bu_exit conversion review. also
17:43.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: includes a slew of custom exit() calls that can use bu_exit() as well as toning
17:43.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: down a slew of overzealous exclamation point use. (20% complete overall)
17:44.16``Erikheh
17:44.20``Erikgrep -r '!!!' src
17:44.21``Erikeeks
17:45.05``Erikhum
17:45.11``Erikand a lot looks like john
17:45.20``Erikpng tools, pattern, ...
17:51.22brlcadit's just a style thing, but for messages being sent to the user, the "emotion" it conveys is a bit wierd sometimes :)
17:51.48``Erik<-- looking at printed strings, not code comments
17:52.13``Erik:) a bit much, perhaps *shrug* but I'm not gonna jump in and do anything right now, got other stuff to do
17:52.43brlcadhm, so i'm apparently chunking through at about 10% every 2 hours..
17:52.58brlcadthat means I have 16 hours to go .. oh joy
17:53.09``Erikwhen rt and rtedge get wedged like that, the kill is in a wait4() call
17:53.23poolio``Erik: a snippet of your code reminds me of some commit you corrected in my code earlier.... 8)
17:53.49``Erikso I'm imagining that the fb process might not be releasing all the parent fd's or something
17:53.59``Erikwhich snippet? O.o
17:54.21``Erikadding '#include "bu.h"' or something? O.o :D
17:55.18brlcadheh
17:55.19brlcadbu_bomb("Choke! ack! gasp! wheeeeeeze.\n");
17:55.37brlcadbu_bomb("choke, gasp, *croak*\n");
17:55.44brlcadfunny lee
17:56.57``Erikheh, hopefully no one ever sees the output of a bu_bomb() *shrug* :)
17:57.35``Erikhmmmm, liboptical/treetherm.c
17:57.41``Eriksh_treetherm.c rather
17:57.51brlcadhence the addition of bu_exit() .. bu_bomb() are conditions that shouldn't ever be encountered
17:58.45brlcadyay, Heroes tonight
17:59.22``Erikso clone can have "-c [num]"
17:59.59``Erikif I can get my freakin' browser off of http://www.primitiveways.com/ that is
18:06.03poolio``Erik: "silly coder, this is C! you can't declare variables mid-scope"
18:09.14``Erikhehehe
18:09.42``Erikyes, in c90, it's illegal to declare a variable anywhere but the beginning of the scope (or block, if you like that word better)
18:11.15``Eriktry compiling with your CFLAGS containing something like '-Wall -W -Werror -ansi -pedantic' some time... it'll hurt you... not as bad as, say, splint, but it will :)
18:13.23poolio``Erik: I know, I'm just saying you did the same thing with your last commit :)
18:18.47``Erik'crude c functionality'?
18:18.49``Erik-c
18:19.14pooliojah
18:19.17``Erik<-- not understanding
18:19.22``Erik-c is a flag to the clone command
18:19.33poolioerrr
18:20.14poolioI was just giving you a hard time for declaring a variable mid-scope
18:20.41``Erikum, I don't declare in mid scope
18:21.00``Erikcurly brackets define new scope, I have curly's around that block
18:21.23``Erikor, rather; show me where :)
18:21.46poolioah durrrrr.
18:22.04``Erikhum, speaking of
18:22.18``Erikcmu, huh? do you know or know of a lee salzman?
18:26.38``Erik!#~!@!~ fucker :(
18:26.52``Erikis the new season already running?
18:27.01brlcadheh, for like 4 weeks dude
18:27.09``Erikfeck
18:27.54``Erikbparker is downstairs in ed's office, btw... waiting on computer accounts I think, want anything relayed?
18:28.14brlcadmy dvr actually screwed up the weekend I went to cali
18:28.34brlcadjust pulled them off itunes instead
18:28.44``Erikhm, like $2/ep?
18:28.52brlcadsure, "Hi Bob!" .. see him tomorrow probably
18:29.14brlcadand i'm gonna undo his chmod breakage
18:29.45brlcadprobably can get away with #define fchmod _fchmod for winderz
18:30.22``Erikheh, yeah, I think the twist for a lot of posix on winnt is the _ prefix :/
18:30.23brlcadi'm about ready to get rid of it
18:30.37``Erikand these days, we can probably assume dos based windows is irrelevant
18:30.40brlcadit's actually made me watch more tv than before now that I can watch what I want when I want
18:30.48brlcadthinking of just going itunes-only
18:31.00brlcadbuy ala cart for the shows I care to watch
18:31.09``Erikstill drm damaged, though, no?
18:31.15brlcadcalculated that it would definitely be cheaper overall
18:32.03``Erikwhat, $40/mo opposed to $80?
18:32.36poolio``Erik: nope, sorry.
18:33.00brlcadyeah the video is fuxored, though it can be burnt/ripped iirc
18:33.01``Erikhe probably graduated before you got there, hoolio :)
18:33.11brlcadnot sure if anyone's cracked it outright like has been done for music
18:33.36brlcad140/mo and you don't have a dvr?
18:33.42*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548743D2.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:33.50brlcadthat must be a handful of porn channels
18:34.02``Erikheh, no porn, ... well, not advertised as porn
18:34.11``ErikI think I have like showtime or hbo or smething
18:34.19``Erikthat I've watched, like, once in the last 4 years
18:34.52brlcadi think dvr is about 80/mo + whatever base service, so usually 100-120/mo
18:35.23brlcadi used to have all the movie chans.. sure didn't cost 140/mo
18:35.41``Erikand I got the digital package for 'discovery wings' and 'bbc', but 'discovery wings' change to 'discovery military' (and I was a huge fan of the history and 'learning to fly' shows), and the bbc here is mostly crap like trading space and shit, not the onslaught of monty python, black adder, red dwarf, etc in memphis
18:36.04``Erikand of course the cable modem
18:36.12brlcadahhh
18:36.15brlcadw/ internet
18:36.17brlcadthat's the diff
18:36.26``Erikthat's probably $50 of it
18:36.30brlcadyeah
18:36.33``Eriklike $45 service and $5 rental
18:36.34brlcadthat's more like it
18:37.52``Erikdoxy in libbu is good, right?
18:37.58brlcadafaik, yeah
18:38.06brlcadalmost complete even
18:38.40``ErikI hate to say it, but I think javadoc stomps doxygen for html output :/
18:40.28pooliopeople here use Doxygen for a lot of projects
18:41.52brlcadwith the defaults it does .. default html output sucks hairy ones; but it's fairly configurable and can be made to look as good/better
18:59.07*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130)
19:07.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: convenience wrappers for comparing vls's
19:17.04``Erikmake -s in src/conv puts me in a beavis and butthead mood O.o
19:19.44``Erik:w
19:20.15``ErikI mean, uh, ^C-w or something
19:23.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: silly coder, semicolons don't go there
19:30.40brlcad``Erik: is the bu_vls_strcmp() one really needed?
19:30.59brlcadI'm in the process of eliminating most instances of strcmp for flawfinder
19:31.19``Eriknot particularly, but the pattern is in several places (5 that I've noticed)
19:31.22brlcadwith vls, you always know the length of both
19:32.07brlcadyou mean pattern where that define is made?
19:32.21``Erikthe strcmp(bu_vls_addr(), bu_vls_addr())
19:32.27brlcadah
19:32.59``Erikand I searched through vls for a bit looking for the compare functions, seemed there ought to be one
19:33.34``Erik<-- working clone into being vls heavy, has the 'other 4' ready for commit to use the macro...
19:33.57``Erikif it's excessive, I can up -AC them instead of commit
19:34.02brlcadshould probably make the corresponding bu_vls_strcmp() func then, so it can do the validity checking like the other vls str* funcs
19:34.13``Erikyeah, I was thinking of doing that
19:34.16brlcadyeah, just nobody refactored to create one yet
19:34.43``Erikheh, I was kinda thinking of trying to optimize them by doing length comparisons first, but then ya don't know if -1 or 1 is the correct return value
19:35.08brlcadyeah
19:35.33``Erikeven though every use is ==0 or !=0 so far... someone will try pushing it through qsort or something eventually heh
19:36.02``Erikvalidation would be good, I was just taking a baby step that direction for now
19:36.56``Erikdo I commit the consumer files, or back out the macros?
19:37.33brlcadyeah, that'd be a freaking hard bug to find
19:37.50brlcadwhatever suits you
19:38.13brlcadwon't matter until time to release :)
19:38.28``Erik<-- kinda prefers completeness for core functionality
19:38.56brlcadboth probably need to happen, so it's just a matter of which first :)
19:39.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (libdm/dm-generic.c mged/cmd.c mged/share.c mged/vrlink.c): move to using the new bu_vls_strcmp macro
19:39.28``Erikclone.c needs testing, I've done a lot in there
19:39.40brlcadwonder if flawfinder will bitch on bu_vls_strcmp .. it seems braindead in its string matching sometimes
19:40.06brlcadi noticed that it complains about some macros that call strcmp that it completely gets wrong
19:40.47``Erikhm, [^_a-zA-Z0-9] should alleviate that :/
19:41.23``Erikunless it's pushing it through cpp first
19:41.28brlcadyeah, I think it "tries" to determine context and just gets confused by cpp stuff
19:44.27brlcadg'dammit .. msvc doesn't seem to have fchmod at all.. only _chmod
19:49.19CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: change get_name() to return a bu_vls instead of a char*
19:53.45*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
19:54.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
19:54.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: wrong direction bob.. working to remove _all_ instances of _WIN32 not in a core
19:54.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: library. besides, using chmod() is actually has a fundamental race condition
19:54.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: flaw that is a security violation; and causes the new flawfinder regression test
19:54.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: to fail. hopefully msvc has _fchmod() like the other posix funcs it supports
19:54.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: prefixed. if not, need to add a libbu compatibility routine.
19:56.03``Erik(of course, if your'e using win32, race condition security might not be your biggest priority *cough*)
19:56.57MinuteElectronWindows is awesome.
19:59.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: retain 2nd (3rd? 87th?) number if no -c option is given
19:59.45brlcadaww, now that's freaking cool
19:59.47brlcad"I used to live on the 23rd floor of a high-rise in Chicago. Groceries were never a problem. The 1st floor of the building was a grocery store and they delivered with purchases of $20 or more (excluding alcohol and cigarettes). Likewise all the local grocery stores would deliver to your apartment free of charge with a minimum purchase. You could phone or fax your grocery order in and pay for it on delivery (even pay with a check) or you could go
20:00.27MinuteElectronIt got cut of at "you could g"
20:00.40dtidrow_workyeah
20:00.46brlcador you could go down and select your items, pay  for them, and one of the box boys would lug the stuff up for you."
20:01.11MinuteElectronCool indeed.
20:04.51``Erikshoot, if it was that close, just stop by every day on the way home
20:04.56``Erikmmmm fresh veggies every day O.o
20:05.37brlcad``Erik: presuming you ever needed to leave home
20:05.38``Erikeveryone still crunching numbers on an xmp, raise your hands.
20:05.39``Erik:D
20:06.24``Erikwhat's the xmp shtuff mucking with? O.o
20:06.28brlcadeven if anyone HAS an XMP that will still power up, I'd imagine that it's probably possible to get an updated posix lib on there that would remove the need for the hacks
20:06.40``Erikjust readability?
20:06.46brlcadit's all throughout
20:06.48``Erik(heh... "just"...)
20:07.21brlcadsome readability, a lot of #if chunks, and some code that needs updating if I'm to get flawfinder below level four
20:07.29brlcadso it's finally become a maintenance burden
20:07.36dtidrow_workgee, my laptop prob. has more performance than a XMP
20:08.17brlcaddtidrow_work: almost guaranteed -- computed it once -- iirc, the Apple "Cube" that came out about 8 years ago was almost the same speed
20:08.32brlcader, maybe 6 years
20:08.41dtidrow_workheh
20:08.58brlcad"cray in a coffee can"
20:09.04brlcadfanless even
20:09.32dtidrow_workdid you see the article about the 'unlocked' Athlon X2 5000+ that recently came out?
20:10.02``Erikdidn't the case crack and become discolored on the cube?
20:10.09dtidrow_workyuo can overclock it to 3.1GHz without tweaking the voltage, or dissapating much more power
20:11.47brlcad``Erik: yeah, constant heating and cooling would cause microfractures in the acrylic/plastic for some of them .. barely visible, but not good for the image when the visual look of those boxes was one of their best selling points :)
20:12.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: don't assume the suffix starts with a '.'
20:12.38``Erikwith jobs stickuptheass about the industrial design of products, that was a suprising... feature
20:12.56``Erikwith a dell or gateway, people woulda just said "meh, they do that"
20:13.20brlcadhmm.. heh "While your new website seems a little slicker and is probably more functional it lacks the patriotic feel of the original." ... "please bring back the eagle"
20:13.34MinuteElectronbah
20:13.36brlcadthe eagle is intentionally deprecated
20:14.05``Erikecho "the new site sucks, black background is sooooo 1997" | mail -s 'feedback' brlcad@brlcad.org
20:14.06``ErikO:-)
20:14.08brlcadinteresting that it was one of the first comments, though :)
20:14.29MinuteElectronDid you ever get LDAP running?
20:15.25brlcadMinuteElectron: yeah, ldap is running .. i just need to focus better -- should now just be a matter of hooking the web apps into it configwise
20:15.37brlcadi'm assuming that was the problem before where drupal was being pissy with it
20:15.55brlcadbut now it's verified working, and I even kinda understand it now ..
20:16.01MinuteElectronOh, sounds good.
20:16.29brlcadi just needed a diversion after hacking on it for half a day and haven't gotten back on it
20:20.21brlcadah, interesting, cray was also pseudo-big endian
20:20.39brlcadints were big, floats were proprietary format
20:21.07``Erikieee754 came far later than 2's compliment
20:22.12brlcadwith a hardware pin on the cray el to toggle between big and little
20:30.25MinuteElectronWhoever designed the gallery2 skinning system needs shooting.
20:44.41brlcadcan only go to user www
20:44.55brlcad(chown)
20:45.28brlcadif don't want to type commands over and over via sudo, can sudo -s -u www
20:46.04MinuteElectronAhh, right. Thanks.
20:46.13MinuteElectronI thought you didn't watch the logs ;)
20:46.27brlcadI don't watch user logs
20:46.34brlcadbut I do get sudo notifications
20:46.46MinuteElectronOh, I must be annoying then :P
20:46.55brlcadctrl-l is my friend :)
20:47.05MinuteElectron:D
20:47.43brlcadI get a lot more than sudo notifications, not a big deal
20:47.58MinuteElectronahh, kk
20:48.24brlcadjust about any security/access/system-level related event
21:00.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (28 files in 12 dirs):
21:00.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: the old cray cos and unicos code for the cray xmp and friends finally became a
21:00.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: burden to maintain while resolving various flawfinder issues. remove the old
21:00.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: code, particularly that which wasn't __STDC__. however, intentionally leave the
21:00.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: code for calculating byteoffsets and converting float formats to/from network
21:00.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: order .. could still come in handy at some point down the road.
21:02.33MinuteElectronBack to Plan A.
21:07.21brlcadMinuteElectron: how hard is it to swap right and left menus on the site so that the config matches on the right/left side correctly?
21:07.29CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (21 files in 8 dirs): removed the non-ansi/stc compliant noalias.h and noalias-prag.h headers that were used with the cray (and alliant) to make pragma decls before loops. made obsolete long ago with the move to ansi compliance.
21:08.14MinuteElectronI could do it with little effort. Give me five minutes or so.
21:08.17brlcadcool
21:09.27brlcadI'm also thinking to maybe change the header to not require alpha transparency .. i (annoyingly) got a few IE6 complaints about it rendering badly already
21:09.42brlcadmore prevalent that I thought still apparently
21:11.58MinuteElectronI will look into pngfix again, I've tried it before, but it didn't work.
21:12.54MinuteElectronAlso there are methods of single color transparency, but I'm sure you know about them.
21:13.05MinuteElectronI can also try converting images to gif, that might work.
21:13.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-pex.c: whoops, here's to reviewing all commit e-mails even when I make them.. apparently edited out the wrong line for noalias.h
21:13.34brlcadpngfix requires javascript iirc, no?
21:13.42brlcadI think these are systems that have scripting turned off
21:14.15MinuteElectron:(
21:14.24brlcadI was thinking of redoing the header regardless so that the menu can expand verically too
21:14.27MinuteElectronOk, GIF it is, I will sort it out after left\right columns
21:14.41brlcad(or you can, have at it) :)
21:15.36brlcadI'm thinking that it might actually look even better to do what's done on the right side panel with the ovals for the menu, just not beveling the bottom two corners
21:16.01brlcadthat would let it expand horizontally and vertically, and could be more readily tied into drupal's menu management
21:16.19brlcadlooks like atm it's ignoring/not using drupal's built-in menu management, just having the menu hard-coded
21:16.47brlcadmaybe something similar for the bevel for the two search tabs too, so they expand correctly
21:17.03MinuteElectronThe problem with tieing the menu system management in with Drupal is the wiki anf gallery2.
21:17.14brlcadah, true dat
21:17.29brlcadfair nuff
21:17.42brlcadbut still would be nice if it expanded correctly :)
21:18.09brlcadI got horizontal working, just need veritcle (which means making the bevel automatic like on the other boxes)
21:19.50MinuteElectronThe problem with vertical is the background images.
21:20.39brlcad?
21:20.41brlcadhowso?
21:20.49MinuteElectronoh, wait
21:20.50brlcadit's got a solid background color
21:20.52MinuteElectronyou got rid of them lol
21:22.28brlcadthe way the bezels are now, it's a one pixel white hilight on left, top-left, and top edge; and then with a dark gray 1 pixel edge on the bottom, bottom-right, and right edges
21:22.43brlcadthat pretty much translates directly to the trick done for the right panel bezel
21:23.14MinuteElectronoh cool
21:23.15brlcadjust that one is 3 pixels thick and includes bottom-left and top-right corners
21:23.32brlcadcompletely image-less
21:23.41brlcadjust css tricks
21:24.16MinuteElectronWhy is it you want vertical expansion?
21:24.36brlcadso it's not reliant upon expected font sizes
21:24.49MinuteElectronahh, ok
21:24.51brlcadfont size isn't guaranteed with any browser, user can override
21:25.23brlcadcmd-shift-+ on a mac in safari or firefox will dynamically adjust the size
21:26.55MinuteElectronhmm
21:27.08brlcadexample: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/tmp/fontsize.png
21:27.23MinuteElectronyeah
21:27.24brlcadeverything resizes correctly example the menu because of that fixed height
21:34.26MinuteElectronok, this is weird
21:35.34brlcaddon't know if you noticed, but I tweaked a lot of the style settings on the section headers
21:36.15MinuteElectronyes
21:36.58MinuteElectronblocks fixed
21:42.51*** join/#brlcad poolio_ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
21:43.14MinuteElectrongifs don't work well with some of the sliding transparency you have
21:45.16*** join/#brlcad poolio__ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
21:49.36brlcadyep, I know .. I was thinking entirely changing that so it basically doesn't need any transparency
21:50.03MinuteElectronaww, ok
21:50.33poolio__geez. my internet is out of control...sorry
21:50.58brlcadi think it's pretty cool, but not worth it if it's going to look like total ass on a major subset of visitors
21:51.35brlcadalternatively, could leave it like it is, and just have a separate fixed header with no truck for the lame browsers
21:52.04MinuteElectronIt would be possible to use IE if statements to do so.
22:19.09*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-71.dclient.hispeed.ch)
23:03.03*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
23:03.05MaloeranThis is unexpected. This chunk of code performs 18 times faster with  -O2 -mtune=nocona  in comparison to binaries produced without optimisation
23:03.18MaloeranI had never seen such a gap before, I didn't even think it possible
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071023

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071023

00:04.07*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@CMU-238293.WV.CC.cmu.edu)
00:11.28*** join/#brlcad CIA-27 (i=cia@208.69.182.149)
00:42.34CIA-27libirc: 03mm_202 * r293 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/irClientEvents.cpp): Some minor typo fixes.
01:52.04*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
02:18.50*** join/#brlcad poolio__ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
02:20.01*** join/#brlcad poolio___ (n=poolio@c-71-206-215-46.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
06:55.38CIA-27libirc: 03mm_202 * r294 10/trunk/libirc/src/irClientEvents.cpp: Fixed two bugs with eIRCChannelUserModeSet.
06:58.06CIA-27libirc: 03mm_202 * r295 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: Found a bug in removeChannelFromUser(), but didnt fix it. JeffM: your favorite, erase().
07:11.49CIA-27libirc: 03mm_202 * r296 10/trunk/libirc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Fixed a stupid spelling mistake, Permisions -> Permissions.
07:18.25*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487740E.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:13.57brlcadminute-ssh: made a slew of changes to the header, trying out various different styles/approaches
08:14.58brlcadminute-ssh: the menu expands nicely now and I think it looks a little better, but I had a problems getting the bezel to wok on windows for some reason
08:15.09*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-084-125.pools.arcor-ip.net)
08:15.31brlcadchanged the images too -- now using gifs for the background images with the colors corrected to the color_palette images
08:17.08brlcaddidn't change the title, byline, or axis yet to make a precomposited image for broken browsers
08:17.51brlcadand still have to fix the search tabs so that they expand correctly now too .. those should be the last items that need to be tweaked to allow resizing
08:19.10*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
09:17.36*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
09:33.18MinuteElectronbrlcad: I already changed the x,y,z axis to gif :)
09:38.24MinuteElectronAnd you must have a lot more patience than I do.
09:39.07MinuteElectronThe new design is definitely an improvement.
10:47.33*** join/#brlcad butti (n=butti@e178072209.adsl.alicedsl.de)
11:10.03*** join/#brlcad Apathy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
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12:13.06*** mode/#brlcad [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net
13:50.57MaloeranThis is so absurd. The federal, provincial and municipal governments are preparing a proposal to move the United Nations to... Montreal!
13:51.06MaloeranThe odds of success are so astronomically low
13:53.58brlcadMinuteElectron: I don't think it's so much patience as it is my obsessive-compulsive tendancies .. there are still several things on the layout that will grate me until they're fixed :-)
13:54.48MinuteElectronahh, allright
14:27.42``Erikheh, "come to montreal! we don't have any building worth flying in to!"
14:27.43``Erik*cough*
14:28.27``Erikand every translated statement will require yet another translation to french *cough*
14:28.30``ErikO:-)
14:33.14MaloeranEh, exactly. And who's dreaming that the United States would let the UN go away? It seems our governments have money to throw away on futile and delusionary projects
14:34.35MaloeranCanada also wanted to host the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor despites providing a tiny fraction of the funding, and walked out when France won the hosting bid
14:35.57``Erikdamn uppity canucks and their insane nationalism
14:35.58``Erik:D
14:37.39MaloeranYup! :)
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16:55.45buttihello
16:56.38butti``Erik: are you an american?
17:04.42*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
17:05.08yukonbobhello, whirled.
17:35.45``ErikDr. Calvin Rickson, a scientist from Ohio State University has invented a bra that keeps women's breasts from jiggling and prevents the nipples from pushing through the fabric when cold weather sets in.  
17:35.46``ErikAt a news conference, after announcing the invention, a large group of men took Dr. Rickson outside and kicked the s#$% out of him.
17:35.48``Erikbutti: yes
17:36.27MinuteElectronlawl
17:36.31``Erikbut not one of the vocal idiot minority that most non-americans assume represent all americans, sorry
17:37.19butti<PROTECTED>
17:37.22``ErikI don't have american flags on my house or car, I don't say "buy american, just because", I don't wear baseball hats (or watch sports), I don't drink piss like 'miller' or 'bud', I don't believe that if you don't speak english, you should get out, ...
17:37.45buttilovely
17:37.50``Erik<-- lived in japan for 3 years, lived on the canuck border most of his life, drives a german car, ... :)
17:38.17``Erikand I am extremely displeased with the current administration
17:38.59buttiIm always worry about americans..so hard to live with them
17:39.19``Erikyou live with people from the US?
17:39.32buttino, I mean all the nation
17:39.36``Erikheh
17:39.46``Erik<-- points out that texans are NOT americans, they're texans.
17:39.48``Erikdamnit.
17:39.52buttihehe
17:40.03``Erikthat'd be like quebec being in control of canada
17:40.20``Erikor jutland being in control of germany
17:40.25butti3 times i hat american lovers..they was all left-liberal
17:40.36``Erikor ireland being in control of UK
17:40.54``Erik:D
17:41.05buttihehe
17:41.09``Erik(and the one of my analogies that doesn't fit is probably the germany/jutland one)
17:42.17buttibut this means, the left-liberal are not bindingly
17:42.34buttii dont know nothing about jutland
17:44.14buttiI mean, thats why such a persol like Sarkozy, who divorse with her wife is so spectacular. he is right front as rapublicans do
17:44.44buttiyou know what i mean
17:45.47buttiwhere are you living right now ``Erik ?
17:47.57``ErikI live just north of baltimore, ont he east coast... but I mostly grew up north of seattle
17:48.54buttiok seatle must be cool, that what ive hear about this city
17:49.02``Erik*nod* I miss it
17:51.10buttibut you have alway sun in baltimore, here becomes quit dizzy ...brrr,  cold and gray
17:51.17buttigrey
17:54.11buttinow we have a new goverment in Poland, I think the soldiers will come backs from Irak now, I hope so
17:56.18``Erik<-- prefers cold and grey
17:56.36buttithe old kaczynsky Klones wanted to stay in irak becouse: "we should do this shit till the end, becouse we promised that"
18:00.00buttino, I defintly prefer sun, which I didnt see this year (seating on front of display)
18:03.50``Erikhum
18:03.52``Erikwhat is "the end"?
18:04.43``ErikI understand war as an activity between people, and one submits... terrorism is an idea/tactic... there can never be a 'victory' because an idea cannot capitulate
18:04.48MinuteElectroncold + bright FTW
18:05.05brlcadheh
18:06.23``Erikso, uh... tag and kick out?
18:08.25brlcadyeah
18:09.14``Erikare you going to do it? I don't have a -STABLE checkout right now, and I dunno if I want to play with rtag right now, I'm feelin' a little too... calm :)
18:10.04butti``Erik: exactly
18:10.24buttihi brlcad :)
18:16.33brlcadhowdy butti
18:16.46brlcad``Erik: I'll tag it
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20:05.57CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: MFC
20:11.38brlcadjeez
20:11.49dtidrow_work?
20:12.03``Eriksorry, but it's a slew of stuff that big D has been begging for
20:12.08``Erik:D
20:12.13brlcadnow if that don't compile cleanly.. i'm gonna just point
20:12.22``Erikoh, it'll compile cleanly... I hope
20:12.27brlcadmmhmm
20:12.39brlcadyou get to do the irix build
20:12.40dtidrow_workheh
20:12.40``Erikif it breaks it, I'll do the distcheck and upload
20:12.43``Erik!#~@!~
20:12.48dtidrow_workfamous last words...
20:13.10brlcadso should I announce the new command, or wait a release?
20:13.14``Erikum
20:13.21brlcadit's not yet in the notes
20:13.29``Erikit's missing mirroring and picking the rotation point
20:13.30brlcadi was going to wait
20:13.38brlcadokay, sounds like a waiter then
20:13.46``Erikand dwayne has requested reworking so it respects instancing
20:14.02brlcaddtidrow_work: in the process (literally minutes away from tagging) and he's committing "MFC" :)
20:14.05``ErikI told him that'd be considerably more effort than the other little things, so he's cool with letting it slide
20:14.22``Erik(thus the innocent whistle)
20:14.53brlcadhey i don't mind, just hope it compiles cleanly
20:14.55``Erikbut this hits more than 50% of the clone "problems" in that email
20:15.20``ErikI'd hope it'd be more apt to compile cleanly than before, I moved from system commands to libbu commands for the most part
20:16.50CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r297 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: vectors return an iterator on erase
20:18.25``Erikso are we going to push for a halloween release, too?
20:35.48CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: added release notes and updated version for 7.10.4, beginning of final release preparations
20:36.17CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/include/conf/PATCH: update to final 7.10.4 version
20:39.13``ErikI d'no
20:39.17``Erikshould I try compiling it before I commit?
20:40.01poolio__oo release?\
20:40.09brlcadthat's why there's actually two distcheck tests :P
20:40.31minuteYou get to use the news thing on the new website. ;)
20:41.15CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: back out the bu_vls_strcmp() macro as STABLE bu.h trails... a lot...
20:41.52CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: massive changelog update from 2007-05-16 to today, preparing for the big 7.10.4 release
20:42.19*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now
20:42.29poolio__Cheers :)
20:43.07brlcadpoolio__: beset is actually listed in this release, but haven't made the bigger announcement yet -- waiting till 7.12
20:44.07``Erikwhat are the triggers for 7.12.0? endgame, archer and bombadier?
20:44.53brlcadthe triggers are usually either a major new feature in itself, or the accummulation of major features since the previous minor rev
20:45.24brlcadendgame wouldn't likely be a trigger
20:45.39``ErikI meant those as a boolean expression
20:45.56brlcadmaybe bombardier if it has automatic crash reporting with a gui and several apps with signal handlers
20:45.58``Erikand when ya get close to it, usually ya pick the actual things to trip it... :D
20:46.02poolio__brlcad: errr why is beset even listed?
20:46.32brlcadbecause it's in the release
20:46.33``Erikto embarrass you, ben :D
20:46.42brlcadit will compile and be installed
20:46.44poolio__what the christ.
20:46.49brlcadand be on thousands of people's machines
20:46.53``Erikit's important for porters
20:46.58brlcadwhether they know it or use it is another matter.. ;)
20:47.04``Eriksome of us need to manage lists of installed files
20:47.34brlcadpoolio__: it's effectively zero-maintenance, and might even inspire someone else to pick up where you left off
20:47.57poolio__Alrighty. Just seems like it won't be too useful to anyone, except maybe some code examples.
20:48.11brlcadthat's why it's not "announced" .. just in the feature list
20:48.12poolio__I guess I should be saying thanks and stop whining :)
20:48.28brlcadany "user-visible" change is supposed to be listed in the NEWS file with a 1-liner
20:48.51brlcadthat certainly qualifies as 'user visible' given it will compile and be installed
20:49.52poolio__How often do you guys do releases? Wasn't it supposed to be monthly?
20:50.09``Erikit was, but politics intervened.
20:50.17brlcadyeah, supposed to be .. but this is a "major integration" release
20:50.23poolio__ah
20:50.24brlcadcoordinated with the main analyses user
20:50.30brlcads/user/code/
20:50.32``Erik<-- is hoping for 7.10.6 on halloween
20:50.48poolio__heh, that's only like a week away
20:51.00``Erikyes, but stable went cold quite a while ago
20:51.05``Erikand head kept marching along
20:51.10brlcadhead is already 7.11
20:51.17``Erikah
20:51.31``Erikafter 7.10.4 is tagged, I expect to see a huge MFC
20:51.40brlcadthis release should really probably be 7.12, it's not in the spirit of patches.. there were significant features
20:51.52brlcadespecially since 7.10
20:51.57brlcad(.0)
20:52.26``Erik(MFC is "merge from current" for the non-bsd geeks)
20:53.13brlcad~mfc
20:53.14ibotMicrosoft Foundation Classes, or crap
20:53.30brlcad~mfc is also Merge From Current
20:53.31ibotbrlcad: okay
20:53.41brlcad~mfc is also a Major Fscking Change
20:53.41ibotbrlcad: okay
20:54.02``Erik~mfc
20:54.02ibotMicrosoft Foundation Classes, or crap.  Merge From Current, or a Major Fscking Change
20:54.41*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@toroon63-1177845977.sdsl.bell.ca)
20:54.45``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/freebsd-glossary.html#MFC-GLOSSARY
20:54.47poolio__speak of the devil...haha
20:55.04poolio__well congrats on almost getting the release, I must do work then an ECE lab :\
20:55.07brlcadyukonbob: are you the devil?
20:55.24dtidrow_workah, that's what MFC is...
20:55.42yukonbobI might be, but I can't read what's not in my log -- what did I just miss ;)
20:55.52``Erik(sorry, been a fbsd dork since '98 or '99)
20:56.00dtidrow_workMicrosoft Foundation Classes was the only one I could come up with, and I knew that was wrong...
20:56.18dtidrow_workMajor Fscking Change is best  ;-)
20:56.29``Erikfscking a
20:57.36``Erikmain fuel control? mine field clearance? minimum fault coverage? mutli-frequency code? multiple flight computer? :D http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MFC
20:57.50dtidrow_workheh
20:58.40brlcadarg... a slew of itcl init errors during make distcheck that I hadn't noticed
20:59.13brlcadwill have to test mged and company to make sure they actually init properly on install
21:00.14brlcadi had them fixed at one point
21:00.25brlcadit should work prior to install now
21:00.32yukonbobis this for the pending x.x.4?
21:00.37brlcadprobably something with the out-of-dir dist build
21:01.01brlcadI think the auto_path logic that was added assumes being able to locate the src dir
21:02.57brlcad./configure --enable-all --disable-opengl --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4
21:06.05``Erikcan you scp that to the failing file server in /r/tmp/ ?
21:06.13``Erikor tell me where on that dang sgi it is?
21:07.53brlcadit was in my home in brlcad.STABLE, but coping now
21:08.33brlcadman it must already be choking .. getting about 100kb/s write rate
21:10.13``Erikum, that, uh, other program is running
21:10.18``Erikstresstesting the disks, heh :D
21:10.52brlcadmy other scp is never gonna finish before it explodes
21:10.56brlcaddone copying
21:11.11``Erikit should, I'm only like 3.5 gigs in
21:11.43``Erikchmod pls?
21:13.08``Erikokie, rewt it is
21:13.23brlcaddone
21:13.36``Erikheh, I'd already chmod'd it as root :)
21:18.33brlcadtagging
21:19.05``Erikyay, configure: error: `CPPFLAGS' has changed since the previous run:
21:28.10starseekerIs the tarball hiding anywhere?
21:28.34``Erikyeah, that'd probably be the easiest :) -rSTABLE
21:46.21starseeker<announcer-voice>Annnnnnnd here we go :-)</announcer-voice>
22:03.40yukonbobso, is 7.10.4 tagged and bagged?
22:05.31brlcadhowdy starseeker
22:05.56starseekerbrlcad:  howdy :-)
22:06.00brlcadyukonbob: yeah, it's tagged, rel-7-10-4
22:06.18yukonbobnice -- /me will grab as -current, and try with his build system...
22:11.48brlcadcool
22:12.08yukonbobbrlcad: btw, what's the devil ref. above?
22:13.52starseekeryukonbob:  Do you use FreeBSD?
22:14.31yukonbobit's not my primary, but yes...
22:17.25yukonbob?Is a reference to the Beastie?
22:17.30yukonbob(chuck)?
22:18.11yukonbobanyway -- will find out later -- I'm at end of battery, and need to head home... will report 7.10.4 results later... ciao all..
22:18.31brlcadyukonbob: i'm frankly not sure .. just funny timing with poolio's comment
22:18.42yukonbobwhat was poolios comment...
22:18.57brlcad"speak of the devil...haha" .. after you joined :)
22:19.08yukonbobthis is probably so drawn out the funny is all evaporated...
22:19.29brlcadi'm not sure it was ever funny to anyone but me at the moment it was written ;)
22:26.09*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-82-12.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:31.54*** join/#brlcad Darkwell (i=gcqA3aao@c2.a108.sto.bahnhof.net)
22:32.47Darkwellhello
22:32.51Darkwellwhat license does brlcad have ?
22:33.09brlcadpredominantly LGPL
22:33.15DarkwellI see
22:33.19brlcadBSD on the build system and a few of the tools
22:33.28brlcadbut otherwise, pretty much LGPL
22:33.41brlcaddetails in the COPYING file in the source distribution
22:34.20Darkwelland for a noob like me , I  wonder does brlcad suit to create materials to use for cnc production ?
22:34.46brlcadhm, for creating the basic geometry, sure
22:34.54brlcadbut for creating the CNC code, no not really
22:35.02brlcadfor that, maybe something like gcam
22:35.25Darkwellok
22:36.06Darkwellbut arent there tools I can use to convert to gcodes etc
22:36.21brlcadbrl-cad is a solid modeling system, so the models can generally work very well for machining when modeled correctly, but there's presently not a g-code exporter or drivers for any particular cnc device, just simple stl and dxf exporters (among other formats)
22:36.45brlcadsure, there are some .. can't vouch for their quality .. and they'renot a part of brl-cad
22:36.46Darkwellok
22:36.56DarkwellI am not familiar with those stuff yet
22:37.19DarkwellI am planning to famliliarize with programs and tools for future educations
22:37.35DarkwellI don't want to waste ,my time in trying to figure how programs work
22:39.05brlcadthere is a diagram on the website that sort of shows the CAD markets that brl-cad is currently best-suited towards
22:39.22brlcadhttp://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
22:39.27starseekeraha - OK portage, what were you complaining about...
22:39.30Darkwellok thank you
22:40.06brlcadDarkwell: as the diagram (hopefully) shows you, we are heavy into the CAE aspects of CAD, and only partially overlap into CADD and MCAD domains
22:40.25brlcadthat overlaps basically amounts to our general solid modeling and data representation support as well as rendering and visualization
22:40.54Darkwellok
22:41.02Darkwellthat isnt bad at all
22:41.15brlcadvalidation of models, CSG support, supporting analysis and development
22:41.31Darkwellif I get this right , it means I can draw objects in brlcad to see what tthey would look like
22:41.45brlcadbut not really much support for direct ties into manufacturing and design processes, especially concept work
22:41.55brlcadyeah, sure
22:41.58Darkwellok
22:42.11starseekershowshot.c:98: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function strcpy
22:42.29starseekershowshot.c:122: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function strlen
22:42.34brlcadbut not easily using a 2D drafting, ala AutoCAD (it encompases the CADD domain) .. you'd be using 3D methods
22:42.48starseekercoswin.c:104: warning: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function malloc
22:42.57brlcadstarseeker: just missing #include <string.h>
22:43.05starseekerAh, OK
22:43.28Darkwellok
22:43.37Darkwellso its 3d
22:43.44brlcadoh yeah
22:43.47brlcad3d solid modeling
22:44.21brlcadakin to the catia, unigraphics, pro/e markets, but with much much MUCH smaller development budget  ;)
22:44.51Darkwellok
22:45.07brlcadhere's a screenshot:  http://brlcad.org/images/mged.jpg
22:45.45Darkwelllooks like some kind of raytracer
22:45.53brlcadbasic (big) tutorial on learning the modeler: http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeII-Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
22:46.17brlcadexamples of some brl-cad models generated:  http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
22:47.14Darkwellhmm
22:47.36Darkwellinteresting
22:48.07DarkwellI think understand what you mean now
22:48.12brlcadbrl-cad has one of the very first ray-tracers ever written
22:48.23brlcadthe package is more than 20 years under active development
22:48.42Z80-Boybrlcad: oldskool!
22:48.43Darkwellso its not really used for design and bluepringint of stuff I want to produce ?
22:49.09Z80-BoyDarkwell: do you work in an architecture bureau?
22:49.15Darkwellwrote a raytracer once in amige 500 :)
22:49.19brlcadwe went open source about 2.5 years ago, so we're just getting ramped up as OSS to make it more usable
22:49.34Darkwellok
22:49.55brlcadDarkwell: brl-cad's was the *first* distributed/parallel raytracer (back in '83 iirc)
22:50.21DarkwellZ80-Boy:  no I am not, still I need cad cam stuff to be able to design objects that I am going to build
22:50.35Z80-Boybrlcad: did it run on Cray?
22:50.41brlcadDarkwell: and to answer your question, no -- not strongly suited to design and blueprints, though that is an area actively being worked on to support
22:50.41Darkwelland I am soon going to get an education learning to handla cnc machines welding etc
22:50.59Darkwellthen I want to master the computer tools already
22:51.03brlcadthere is some support for it via hidden line renderings, but sans dimensioning: e.g.  http://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
22:51.13Z80-BoyDarkwell: do you do it commercially or hobby?
22:51.38Darkwellboth
22:52.14Darkwellas of now I am just a handyman
22:52.15Darkwellll
22:52.17Darkwelllol
22:52.37Darkwellwell I think brlcad looks nice
22:53.35Darkwelllet me check what the proper english name for the job is
22:56.51Z80-BoyHow do I make rtxray produce white background instead of black?
22:56.57Z80-BoyAn xray doesn't look like this
22:59.22brlcad-W
23:00.26Z80-BoyIt's not written in the output of rtxray without parameters
23:01.18Z80-BoyAnd it doesn't work
23:01.22Z80-BoyAs if it weren't there
23:07.08Z80-Boybrlcad: -w also doesn't work
23:07.14Z80-Boyrefuses to start
23:07.44brlcad<PROTECTED>
23:08.24Z80-BoyGiving negative -A also doesn't help
23:08.27Z80-Boyjust produces white
23:08.50Z80-Boybut otherwise it looks cool
23:09.07Z80-Boygoing to sleep night
23:14.53``Erikwow, a new shock site, and this one is... brutal
23:15.48Darkwellhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_and_die_maker <---- think I was right about the english name anyways
23:38.38Darkwellhmm gcam wasnt treally useful
23:38.55Darkwellseveral bugs in the windows build
23:40.08louipcreport them!
23:41.37``Erikyeah, how can twingy fix them if he doesn't have people telling him where the problems are? last I heard, he was mostly fbsd
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071024

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071024

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13:34.46Z80-Boybrlcad: with motion of the mouse, one can rotate the edited object left-right and up down
13:34.56Z80-Boybut one cannot rotate the view in a corkscrew fashion
13:35.13Z80-Boybut I figured out if I do circles with the mouse, the view rotates slowly in a corkscrew fashion
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13:48.57yukonbobhello, whirled
13:49.30yukonbob?Is 7.11.0 the same code as 7.10.4 -- I was using HEAD and getting 7.10.3, but my latest update has mged showing it's 7.11.0
13:58.28``Erik<PROTECTED>
14:00.42``Erikand the MINOR for head was bumped on oct 17
14:00.57``Erikeven though the stable branch forked a fair bit before
14:20.39yukonbob``Erik: ok -- I'll regrab -r 7
14:20.51yukonbob* -r 7.10
14:43.42yukonbob``Erik: ?what tag should I be using for following 7.10.4 (and later stables)
14:43.55yukonbob-r7.10 doesn't look like it ...
15:04.34brlcad-r rel-7-10-4
15:04.56brlcadcvs status -v README  (or any other file) will tell you the available tags
15:05.03yukonbob;)
15:05.05yukonbobthx
15:05.05*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
15:06.09yukonbob*7.11.0
15:16.30``Erikah ha, I understand the tcl version issue
15:17.45yukonbobbrlcad: I should be able to pick -r rel-7-10, and pick all 7.10.* as they are branched, no?
15:18.40brlcadyukonbob: did you see a branch in the status -v ? :)
15:19.00brlcadthere's not a branch for all revs, only generally as/if needed
15:19.18brlcadSTABLE is the branch 7.10.4 somes from
15:20.12brlcadand even then, checking out a branch in cvs isn't like checking out a branches dir in svn where you get all the revs
15:20.28brlcadyou get the endpoint on that branch, whatever the latest is
15:31.48*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875DBC.dip.t-dialin.net)
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19:26.00``Erikheh
19:26.19``Eriknice to know that the official release date of 7.10.4 was 2007-10-XX according to the news file :> *duck*
19:37.21yukonbobfor the record, liked w/ 7.11.0 that errors/warnings went to stdout (err?) from shell where launched, and not into mged... though there are considerations for Windows (certainly) and MacOS (is =< OS9  supported?) potentially with that...
20:01.24``Erikthat's a bug, bob
20:01.41``Erikthe output to stdout/stderr... it SHOULD be captured
20:13.18brlcadit is kinda neat for some things, but yeah .. that's entirely an unintentional bug atm
20:13.31``Erikhrmmmm
20:13.32yukonbobhrmm... feature, bug...  ;)
20:13.39``Erikwhen're you uploading the 7.10.4 source tarballs?
20:13.42brlcadand pre Mac OS X is only supported if someone else wants to work on it, we're certainly not
20:13.54brlcadyeah
20:14.03brlcadhave to bump the tag on two files
20:14.04*** join/#brlcad elite01_ (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-023-094.pools.arcor-ip.net)
20:14.20brlcadwas uploading when ran into the two 'issues'
20:14.25``Erikdoh
20:14.52``Erikwhat issues?
20:15.11brlcaddate and .so
20:15.54brlcadyukonbob: there is a -f flag to not automatically detach
20:16.09brlcadstays in the (-f)oreground
20:16.32yukonbobbrlcad:  ah -- there I go ;)
20:18.34``Erikyou mean other than the mob of grizzled old army workers showing up at your door with linolium knives looking for a chunk?)
20:19.16yukonbob``Erik: heh :)
20:19.51brlcadyukonbob: it's a good idea, been talked about in the past -- is kinda rather contrary to most open source *nix software; you see it a lot more common with commercial *nix software
20:20.44yukonbobError: to many double negatives to be sure what you're saying.
20:21.01yukonbobyou mean it's normal in commercial *nix to have things detach...
20:21.02yukonbob?
20:21.03``Erikthe src/other directory is also more of a proprietary-land type move :/
20:22.16yukonbob*too many double...
20:30.08brlcadyukonbob: yeah, more normal in commercial apps to detach automatically
20:30.15brlcadparticularly for big gui apps
20:31.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (122 files in 17 dirs): Upgrade to itcl/itk 3.3
20:36.21yukonbobbrlcad: just talking about reverse order of "default" operations, but "default" depends on commerical vs. non-comm. apparently, and "contrary", etc., etc... just making sure I'm clear.
20:37.19yukonbobanyway, we're clear now :)
20:37.48yukonbobI think I got a new error w/ mged and large dsp maps -- has that code been touched, or is this maybe only a side-effect from some other code adjustments?
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21:24.20yukonbobmged-*-bomb.log -- to where should this be filed?
21:24.51``Erikum, it doesn't say in it? :D
21:25.46yukonbobnowhere obvious...
21:25.57``Erikwell poo on brlcad, email it to him :D
21:26.02yukonbob;)
21:26.03``Erikor paste it into, uh, pastebin.bzflag.bz
21:35.28brlcadof course it doesn't say - it's just a crash report -- the next step is bombardier which will give the option to automatically send in the report
21:39.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/ (54 files in 2 dirs): upgrade to 1.2.22 ("A new bug with decoding iCCP chunks was fixed.")
21:39.29``Eriktcl85b1 changed how the Var hashing is handled and the latest incrtcl doesn't cope with that... but it's fixed in CVS :/
21:39.47``Erikto import tcl85, we'd have to use bits of incr from cvs
21:40.25brlcadgo for it
21:40.34``Erikblehhhhhhhh
21:41.10``ErikI have tcl and tk 85b1 building ok in my checkout, but I'm not terribly keen on the notion of picking and choosing bits from incr's head
21:41.56brlcadwould updating to 85b1 in our checkout fix it?
21:42.00``Erik(oddly enough, it seems to compile if you have tcl85 installed on the system... I'm wondering if it was snagging my 84 headers)
21:42.07``Erikno, that's what breaks it
21:42.35brlcadwe have a6 in the repo still
21:42.40``ErikI have 85b1 in my checkout, I can commit and we'd have it... but incr ... is behind
21:43.17brlcadhow can it fail saying it wants a6 if there is no a6? :)
21:43.30``Erikdifferent issue
21:44.03brlcadfor the most part, the tcl core guys are keeping incrtcl up to date
21:44.09brlcadand none of them like incrtcl
21:44.16brlcadwith a passion
21:44.27brlcadeven though it's by far the most popular extension
21:44.46brlcadso they keep it up to date, but aren't likely to make a new release for it
21:44.51``ErikI put ${REINPLACE_CMD} 's/8\.5a6/8.5b1/' ${WRKSRC}/src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl in the post-patch bit for the port and that fixes it
21:45.21brlcadheh
21:45.35``Erikbut I'm off on straight BRL-CAD stuff now, updating stuff in other... I updated incr to 3.3 earlier, that's all good
21:46.06``Erikbut when I upgrade to tcl8.5b1, the incr stuff breaks looking for things like refCount in the Var typedef in tclInt.h, which radically changed between 85a6 and b1
21:46.37``Erik(Var's are now held inside of a hash table instead of being part of a linked list)
21:46.38yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m234696fc
21:48.33``Erikerm, afaik, 7.10.4 requires tcl8.5 or better... 8.4 won't cut the mustard, just the cheese
21:53.42yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2121d14e
21:56.05yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m71d1814f
21:57.00yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598c
22:15.29brlcadyukonbob: hmmm.. heh. that crash is inside your 8.4 libtcl  :)
22:15.41brlcadmaybe it doesn't quite fully work ;)
22:40.36yukonbobbrlcad: d'oh  :)
22:43.04yukonbobam I reading it right that it's actually a libpthread issue, called from NotifierThreadProc() in libtcl?
22:45.37brlcadit's actually hard to say -- the stack doesn't look right for the primary thread
22:45.44brlcadjust happens to be the thread that crashed
22:46.04yukonbobdoes brl-cad even take advantage of multithreading in Tcl?
22:46.12brlcadi'll have to check on the gdb options to see if I can change that crash report to include all of the running threads
22:46.35brlcadnot in the tcl side, but mged does do some multithreading
22:46.59brlcade.g. that detaching from the console is done through a fork detachment
22:47.12yukonbob(way this happened was to load up disappointment.dsp (which has always been a problem dsp for me) and list it "l dspmap")
22:47.33brlcadah, then I totally don't think that's the right crash report trace
22:47.38brlcadjust the current thread
22:48.40yukonbobwith a diff't .g, I can "l" the object no problem, so it's not strictly an 'l' condition (at least not for every 'l' condition)
22:49.20brlcadcan you repeat it?
22:49.28brlcador was it random?
22:50.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/unix/Makefile.in: needs SHLIB_SUFFIX just like tcl's Makefile.in so we can have/know the suffix independent of the lib name
22:51.21yukonbobhrmm... not this time on first try...
22:52.05yukonbobwe'll keep this under observation...
22:53.05brlcadyeah, if you find the conditions to reproduce it, let me know..
22:56.04yukonbobrock 'n' roll...
22:57.53poolioevenin'
22:58.11yukonbobevening...
22:58.22CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/NEWS: released on the 24th
22:59.48pooliowoohool
22:59.56poolioYou guys should've waited two days and released with Leopard
23:00.44brlcadwe'll probably still be making binaries by then for various platforms
23:16.19``Erikis it on sf yet? :D
23:21.59buttihello boys
23:42.26louipcgood evening
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071025

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071025

06:29.32*** join/#brlcad tom_ (n=chatzill@mmds-216-19-44-150.sqpk.az.commspeed.net)
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16:52.15waterpiehi all
16:55.28waterpieq: i have no knowledge of brlcad. i just want to convert an iges file to eg dxf. i try "iges-g -3 -o f3.g f.iges" and then "g-dxf -o f3.dxf f3.g" but does nothing. it seems that it misses a "sample-object" at the end, but i have no idea what it is/how to make it. any help pls?
17:06.56brlcadwhen you do g-dxf, you have to tell it what object(s) to convert
17:07.10brlcadwhen you did iges-g, it created at least one object for you
17:07.18brlcadrun mged -c f3.g tops
17:07.31brlcadthat should list the top-level objects, you can then use that name for g-dxf
17:14.15waterpiebrlcad: mged -c f3.g tops --> _GLOBAL   running:  g-dxf -o f3.dxf f3.g _GLOBAL   --> _GLOBAL is not a drawable database object 0 triangles written
17:14.42brlcadyeah _GLOBAL is not a geometry object
17:14.48brlcadis there no other object listed?
17:15.07waterpieno
17:15.28brlcadthen there wasn't any geometry detected/converted during iges-g
17:15.45brlcadit should have said in the output that there were 0 objects converted
17:15.59brlcadcan you pastebin the output from iges-g?
17:16.02brlcad~pastebin
17:16.03ibot[pastebin] a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
17:16.12brlcader
17:16.15brlcad~bzpaste
17:16.20brlcad~bzpastebin
17:16.20ibotsomebody said bzpastebin was http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel
17:16.29brlcadyeah, there
17:19.07waterpiehttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d4b57b251
17:21.10brlcadah, several 'issues'
17:21.59brlcad"Unrecognized IGES version" for starters, meaning that solidworks is probably exporting one of the newer iges formats, but it still finds 1001 entities, so should be fine for conversion
17:22.07brlcadbut at the bottom it says the problem
17:22.31brlcadit contains spline surfaces, so you need the -n option
17:23.06brlcadeither -n or -t
17:23.18brlcadtry both, should get different results
17:24.01waterpieit is either or. each one looses the info of the other?
17:24.23brlcadyeah, not both
17:24.43brlcadit's not so much that it looses information moreso than it tries a different conversion approach
17:25.28*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
17:25.32brlcadjust about every format conversion looses information of some type, it's really rare that *something* doesn' change
17:26.01waterpie-t core dumps
17:26.20brlcadhm, that's not a good sign
17:26.57brlcadcan you paste the fin_assembly.igs somewhere where I can test it?
17:27.04brlcads/paste/post/
17:32.34waterpiei give up. i will try to get the file in different format in the first place.
17:32.40waterpiethanks for your help
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18:18.55yukonbobhello, cadheads
18:58.32louipcdamned vampires
19:14.45yukonbobhalloween coming early for you louipc?
19:16.39louipcthey don't only come out on halloween
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22:05.21starseekerbrlcad:  Is the facetizer part of the converter?
22:05.30brlcadit's part of a lot of the converter
22:05.41brlcadit's what turns a given model into a set of polygons
22:06.15brlcadnot so much heavy math as an utter slew of logic
22:06.27starseekerah
22:06.30brlcadeuler operations on meshes, dealing with floating point arithmetic
22:06.49brlcadtons of O(n^2) and O(n^3) algorithms
22:06.58brlcadsome that are worse..
22:07.10brlcadit's the nature of the problem, it's np-complete to start with
22:07.29starseekerOh, OK - so it's not the "well, this one is easier to implement" effect?
22:07.33brlcadaside from the practicle aspects of dealing with floating point and modeling issues
22:07.43brlcadoh no, not at all
22:08.12brlcadit's actually not a bad approach, just exceptionally hard to implement well as you're already starting from a degraded state
22:08.33starseekerAre the major formats at least well documented, or is it kind of a CAD version of the MS Word effect?
22:09.02brlcadit's not really a format, it's the core "how do you deal with solid geometry in a mesh format"
22:09.11starseekerOh, OK.
22:09.25brlcadat least, the "format" is just a "boundary representation"
22:09.40brlcadthere are some choices there, whether it be something like brl-cad's n-manifold geometry
22:09.48brlcador winged edge data structures, or others
22:10.16brlcadbut the base problem is "give me a mesh of this object that is guaranteed to be solid geometry" .. and that turns out to being a pretty hard problem
22:10.33starseekerOh, OK.
22:10.37brlcadespecially with floating point math and "unclean" geometry that you always encounter
22:11.43starseekerCan you help by doing related/derivative dimensions?  (I.e. "this length is always exactly 2x the length of this" - not sure what the technical term would be)
22:13.35brlcadthere is some book-keeping you can do, but you very quickly/often end up with a situation where code-wise you don't really know the intent, so either case for A or B can be wrong
22:14.03brlcadthat would be a dimensioning constraint
22:14.33brlcadyou still are trying to make a mesh, and all you have to go with is a mess of polygon soup
22:14.49brlcada closed mesh
22:15.14starseekerHmm
22:15.24starseekernasty
22:15.30brlcadmost of content packages (e.g. blender) can get away with a lot of the mesh operations because they rarely ever have to ensure closure, just how it looks
22:16.04starseekerSo as long as the imperfection there is "non-visual" on some scale, it doesn't matter?
22:16.30brlcadanyways, that's one of the reasons for wanting b-rep support at our primitive level, and b-rep csg operations
22:16.41starseekerright
22:17.22brlcadthat would let us retain the topological structure all the way up to the point that the mesh itself is created, and can then be directly done given the already evaluated surfaces instead of evaluating csg on mesh after mesh
22:18.34starseekerElegant.
22:19.22starseekerHow disruptive is primitive b-rep support?
22:19.36brlcaddisruptive?
22:19.44brlcadnot at all
22:19.50brlcadjust an entirely different paradigm :)
22:20.02starseekerSo it can be added without disturbing too much of the existing code?
22:20.03brlcadsome of the work is already complete, massive undertaking
22:20.06brlcadoh yeah
22:20.08brlcadeasily
22:20.13brlcadsome of it's already there
22:20.15starseekerCool - that helps
22:20.31brlcadfor maybe three or four of the primtiives, plus the entire brep/nurbs representation support is pretty much done
22:20.49starseekercool!
22:21.03brlcadso have to add the rest of the primitives, then work on csg evaluation of brep on brep and work on fast brep tessellation
22:21.28brlcadthose three pieces done, then we have clean facetization of any csg model as well as things like opengl shaded displays
22:22.13starseekerNice!
22:24.41starseekerNaive question - the existence of brep at a primitive level - how does that make the core logic of model -> mesh simpler?  Would it mean that models would have to be rebuilt with the new primitive or would the conversion of old primitives to brep be less expensive?
22:25.55starseekerIriX64:  Dare we ask?
22:26.07IriX64vista64 :)
22:26.54IriX64heh i haven't tossed my cookies .... yet :)
22:27.22starseekerSooo... does BRL-CAD work on it? ;-)
22:27.40IriX64yes actually more to come on that :)
22:28.43IriX64brlcad=busy man
22:29.14starseekerHeh - one dumb question too many I guess
22:29.36IriX64no such thing as dumb question if i don't know the answer someone else does said somebody to me
22:31.31starseekerThe thought skittered through my brain that the fundamental problem of converting shapes to meshes has to be solved somewhere - maybe std. primitive -> brep -> mesh is cleaner theoretically than std. primitive -> mesh?
22:43.25yukonbobstarseeker: yesterday (?) I posted some diffs that might help you w/ running tcl/tk 8.4; (it was you that was interested in this, right? With ebuilds?)
22:43.33louipchmm I don't know why I'd want to change a csg model to brep
22:44.21IriX64http://www.irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/brlcaddoesvista64    and also /vista64 :)
22:45.02starseekeryukonbob:  Not me per-say - Gentoo devs would probably like it, but I'm OK with using the internal one
22:45.26IriX64well the brlcad albumn :)
22:45.43louipcstarseeker: no ebuilds for tcl8.5a?
22:46.29starseekerlouipc:  They are but they are "masked" meaning they are unstable
22:46.53starseekerBRL-CAD isn't unstable, so I would prefer not to rely on an unstable ebuild when it is merged (IF it is merged... grumble...)
22:47.23starseekeryukonbob:  I think I saw some of that - how extensive are the diffs?
22:47.33louipcI think they're only classified as unstable because it's alpha
22:47.54starseekerlouipc:  Right, but that doesn't change it unfortunately - we would need a stable 8.5
22:48.09louipcunless you use tcl for other things I bet it's ok to install them seperately
22:48.35starseekeryukonbob:  I already need to patch once for tcl, so patching to work with 8.4 actually isn't impossible
22:48.36louipcbrl-cad is distributing the tcl8.5a though
22:49.10starseekerlouipc:  Right.  That's my preference, but it seems to give some of the devs hives...
22:49.21louipcsame as you get anywhere else
22:49.32louipceg. in the 8.5a ebuild
22:50.05louipcyou should try it though ;)
22:50.07starseekerOnce we install into /opt all the nasty problems go away.  To me that seems to be the obvious way to go - if we end up having to have a binary install it would go there anyway...
22:50.22louipcyeap opt helps
22:50.36starseekeryukonbob:  Still here?
22:50.46louipcbut there's no use having tcl installed twice hah
22:50.53starseekerThat's their thinking
22:51.04louipcbut there isn't...
22:51.41starseekerI suppose, but it's simpler to just have brlcad install exactly what it needs and we don't have to argue about the mask on tcl 8.5...
22:51.44louipcdid it not work with 8.5a installed separately?
22:51.49starseekerprobably it does
22:51.58starseekerI can try it
22:52.30louipcyeah I would
22:52.58starseekerhard drives are so cheap today the simpler solution appeals though
22:53.40louipcnot to me, and probably a lot of other folks :P
22:54.05starseekerSo I've noticed.
22:54.22starseekerAll I need to do is install it, and the rest should follow.
22:54.59starseekerThe ebuild actually doesn't specify one way or the other, so if you install tcl 8.5 it SHOULD work.
22:55.49louipcyeah true the config will pick it up
22:56.41starseekerPutting tcl and tk in the package.keywords file didn't bump the upgrades - they must be hard masked
22:57.16starseekerYep - hard masked in /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask
22:59.58yukonboblouipc: re: unstable -- there still seems to be legitimate issues around 8.5 that would  be "unstable"... which is why it's still beta (not alpha anymore)... but that said, it's got some new work under the hood that won't be proven stable until it's more widely deployed/tested... so in that case, basing a product (ie: brl-cad) on it is a bit risky...
23:00.49starseekerGenerally I don't mess with something that is hard masked - it's a bit of a pain and oftentimes risky
23:01.33louipcyeah brl-cad already uses it though hehe
23:02.02starseekeryukonbob:  Are the patches still online somewhere?  Maybe including those patches will push brl-cad into the acceptable category
23:04.19yukonbobstarseeker: I posted them in pastebin.bzflag.bz -- my build env is pkgsrc on netbsd, so w/i that framework (and setting up working dependencies, configs for the env), the mods I made swap-out 8.6 for tcl/tk for 8.4 (there is no tcl/tk 8.6), and I also completely remove itcl, itk, urt, and a few others where I can properly modularize the build and use itcl packages, urt packages, etc., etc.
23:06.10louipcyeah I have to make itcl, itk, etc packages
23:06.37louipctcl extensions are kinda odd
23:06.55yukonboblouipc: that's the smart way to go -- that way you can manage it w/ your package tools...
23:07.14louipc(the way you're supposed to keep sources, build-stubs)
23:07.15yukonbobrather than having it as a non-defined "lump" that's part of a bigger install (brlcad).
23:07.37louipcyukonbob: yea it's ideal
23:07.52louipceven brlcad can be broken up into a few
23:07.55yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2121d14e
23:08.35yukonbob<PROTECTED>
23:08.47louipcmged, librt, rt, conv, ...
23:09.08yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598chttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598c
23:09.13yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/meb2598c
23:10.05starseekeryukonbob:  Thanks!
23:10.13yukonbob(last one gets rid of bwish, which I don't use, and I'm experimenting w/ setting up a loadable lib for plain-jane tclsh/wish, rather than "another" wish client...
23:10.16yukonbob)
23:10.28yukonbobstarseeker: np -- hope you find something useful.
23:15.59yukonbobI use pkgs for libpng, urt (Utah Raster Toolkit), tcl, tk, incr tcl (itcl/itk), blt, and tkimg. configure is instructed to not build included copies, and I also disable jove, because I just use whatever my favourite already-installed editor is...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071026

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071026

00:17.43louipcyeah I should probably disable jove
00:47.52*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@c-71-236-67-238.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
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15:08.49IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/?startingImageIndex=0&commentsExpand=0&addCommentExpand=0&addCommentFocus=0&pauseSlideshow=0   <---- brlcad and vista64   :)  (my new affliction)   :)
15:09.52IriX64mmm maybe this is better ... http://www.irix32.spaces.live.com/photos
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15:41.28brlcad"Erik may be interested in the fact that Jutland is the mainland of Denmark and definitely no part of Germany"
15:43.36CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: delete the solids.rt.log file
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16:44.13``Erikhehehehe http://rfc.net/rfc3514.html
16:46.03``Erikbrlcad: I'm ready too much historical stuff lately :D northern jutland is where archeologists think the cimbri lived, who were a germanic people who caused a lot of grief for the roman empire :D
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19:42.28CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/lgt.c: remove dead iris code
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21:42.01starseekerFor my fellow Gentoo users:  BRL-CAD ebuild is bumped to latest version:  http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197
21:43.01louipcI think I want a BRL-CAD baseball cap with the big eagle logo :D
21:46.47MaloeranBRL-CAD is in portage now? Neat, I always just compiled
21:48.14louipcheh yeah I compiled too
21:49.27louipcdoes the new brl-cad website seem kind of crowded to you?
21:49.54louipcI could do without the whole bottom section :/
21:50.02starseekerNot in portage, on the bugzilla for Gentoo
21:50.16starseekerI'd like it to be in portage, but so far I can't attract the interest of a developer
21:50.27starseekerI could try BECOMING a developer, but that takes time...
21:50.42louipcare there set guidelines to become a developer?
21:50.54kwizartwell how do you solve the tcl tk probem with 8.5 not stable ?
21:51.03starseekerSort of - you need a mentor and pass some quizzes, etc.
21:51.08starseekerI use the internal copy
21:51.12louipcI don't think my distro has any. It's just "hey we like you, you're a dev"
21:51.17starseekerI install in opt
21:51.24kwizartshared libs ?
21:51.43kwizartx86 or can you test x86_64 also ?
21:51.59starseekerBRL-CAD's configure script is intelligent - if you have a correct tcl/tk installed it will use it, otherwise it builds a local copy for brl-cad
21:52.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (38 files in 8 dirs): yet another surge of level 4 flawfinder string length checks. somewhere around 30-40% done.
21:52.22kwizartwell usually, we still have tcl tk 8.4
21:52.27brlcadlouipc: sure, see the HACKING file
21:53.10louipcbrlcad: :D I meant gentoo dev, but thanks
21:53.18kwizartfor now it seems to work but i need to genertate sh autgen.sh
21:53.25brlcadlouipc: ah :)
21:53.29kwizartand fix: sed -i -e 's|/usr/brlcad/bin/btclsh|%{_bindir}/tclsh|'  $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/tclscripts/mged/points.tcl
21:53.44kwizartand sed -i -e 's|/bin/tclsh|%{_bindir}/tclsh|'  $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/tclscripts/geometree/{geometree.tcl,GeometryBrowser.tcl}
21:54.15starseekerI have the ebuild call autoconf, and there's a patch for tcl/tk needed as well (someone else found the solution to that)
21:54.45kwizartusing tcl 8.4 or last 8.5b1 ?
21:54.56starseeker8.5
21:55.05starseekerthe internal copy in BRL-CAD's cvs
21:55.18starseekeror tarball, actually...
21:56.04kwizartactually i'm using 85b1 system...(shared libs) but i cannot compile itcl itk system so i'm using brlcad for theses
21:56.38kwizarti need also to rename wall
21:56.39kwizartmv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_bindir}/wall $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_bindir}/brlcad-wall
21:56.54kwizartsince it conflict with wall command
21:57.14brlcadkwizart: curious those fixes .. are they specific to an environment?
21:57.24louipcbrlcad: btw I just figured that you wouldn't need the md5sum in the archlinux PKGBUILD included in brlcad src. It would kind of be like making a cvs pkg which doesn't have that check either. I will fix it.
21:57.37brlcadare more importantly, anything that can be done to change our sources so you don't have to make your fixes down the road?
21:57.45brlcad(wall is a known one, just haven't gotten to it)
21:57.56brlcadbut the other seds are new
21:57.59kwizart(installed in /usr since it aims to use Fedora guidelines - to be added for F9 maybe )
21:58.45brlcadkwizart: that is ill-advised still at the moment for fedora if you have conflicting libs
21:58.56brlcadnamely librt, libbu, and libbn
21:59.08kwizartbrlcad, actually rpm checks for scripts shebang, if the command do not exist, then there is a problem with requires at rpm install
21:59.51brlcadI don't mean commands, I mean specifically libs
22:00.25brlcadlibrt is the most common conflict
22:00.28kwizarthum...
22:00.45brlcadours predates, but the kernel compat lib is found on many systems
22:01.02kwizartthen that would be fine to change SONAME
22:01.14kwizart[root@kwizatz bin]# rpm -qf /usr/lib64/librt.so
22:01.14kwizartglibc-devel-2.6-4
22:01.23brlcadours is a ray-trace library, the other is a real-time kernel library that is deprecated
22:01.53kwizartmaybe i will raise this problem, to see if we can remove it..
22:01.56kwizartfor F9
22:01.59brlcadexactly my point, care should be taken to not clobber the system lib or lots will be broken
22:02.04kwizartbut maybe compat will need it
22:02.07brlcador yeah, remove it
22:02.30kwizartbut shouldn't it be easier to change SONAME ?
22:02.53brlcadfor us, it's are most fundamental library and will not likely be changed on our end
22:02.58kwizartconfigure could hadle this properly (saw some sample somewhere )
22:03.03brlcadour primary user base relies on it and expects it
22:03.40kwizartcould do some search to provide a clean way to handle that...
22:03.52kwizartyes i don't mean to remove it
22:03.52louipckwizart: Fedora doesn't have some standard means of working around conflicts like that?
22:04.11brlcadI mean even to rename it, our librt goes back nearly 25 years of active use
22:04.49kwizartwell, the namespace is a problem, if there is a lot, then might be better to have libs installed in /usr/lib(64)/brlcad/
22:04.53brlcadthe approach I'm hoping to eventually add will be something like haveing a /usr/lib/brlcad where our libs would reside
22:05.25kwizartand having a /etc/ld.so.conf.d/brlcad.conf to provide a clean way to say the path to the ldconfig
22:05.27louipctjat
22:05.31brlcadwe have similar conflicts with binaries, but none of those to date are really problematic fortunately (e.g. wall, can be trivially changed)
22:05.32louipcthat'd be alright
22:06.01kwizartbut since it is mandatory to have shared libs, then the SONAME have to be different
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22:07.56brlcadmandatory for whom?
22:07.56kwizartlibrt.so.19 librt.so.1 for glib, so i think they will not conflict, unless for librt.so
22:08.10kwizartmandatory for pacakges within Fedora...
22:08.54brlcadi.e. the most important one will conflict if they're in the same dir
22:09.19brlcadif they're not in the same directly, then it shouldn't be a problem since our binaries will have rpaths to what they need
22:09.28kwizartthat why it can add a prefix
22:09.36kwizartrpath are not allowed neither
22:09.54brlcadeh, "rpath are not allowed" .. what does that mean exactly?
22:10.05kwizartrpmbuidl command block them (as this will prevent to use the improvements with the linker...)
22:10.28brlcadit's a compile-time setting
22:10.30kwizartyou cannot approve a package to be in Fedora if there is rpaths within
22:10.43starseekerkwizart:  It might be useful to check over the gentoo bug history for brl-cad
22:10.48brlcadthat's pretty much any tool that links with libtool
22:10.49kwizartyes it is (and i've removed them in my testing package )
22:11.29kwizartwith chrpath since removing them in libtool will prevent them to link at build time (removed after make install )
22:11.29starseekerkwizart:  brlcad generally has specific ways of doing things that are not subject to change, for very long historical reasons
22:11.40louipcheehee
22:11.50brlcadI somehow highly doubt that is an enforceable rule if there really is such a rule.. :)
22:11.51starseekerkwizart:  What about puting it somewhere like opt?
22:12.23starseekerOr whatever Fedora uses for opt?
22:12.43starseekerSurely there must be other packages out there that cannot be installed in /usr without problems
22:12.46louipcyeah there's gotta be some kind of provisions within fedora guidelines to deal with such conflicts sanely
22:13.00kwizartFedora uses /usr :)
22:13.18starseekerI can speak from personal experience - putting brlcad in /usr is a fools game
22:13.19kwizartfedora packages distributed by Fedora
22:13.29brlcadstarseeker: I've yet to see a single one of the major distros actually accommodate name collisions outside of forcing one or the other to change their name
22:13.30kwizartmeant /usr/bin /usr/lib(64)
22:13.37kwizartnot /usr/brlcad
22:13.39starseekermeh
22:13.55kwizartwell that's a packager problem actually...
22:14.00starseekerkwizart:  I had to re-install my system twice to clean up messes I made with /usr installs
22:14.15louipcbrlcad: ouch
22:14.22kwizarti can handle theses problem... if it works fine.. (and i will have time to checks )
22:15.00kwizartstarseeker, well i install thing in /usr with rpm
22:15.21starseekerThe name collision is fundamental.
22:15.29louipcyeah manual install should go in /usr/local non?
22:15.32starseekerIt's also rather insidious
22:15.44kwizartlouipc, yes indeed
22:15.44brlcadkwizart: I do appreciate the efforts, and would strongly prefer finding a solution that doesn't require changing our product names for our libraries -- binaries we can probably adjust depending on which one, but the libraries have extensive heritage behind them (that predates linux itself)
22:15.48starseekerI had my system keep working after brlcad nuked the libraries, which was even stranger than total failure
22:16.42brlcadit'll install usually with no problem, the issue is usually librt getting replaced, which can render a system unusable
22:17.00brlcador if openssh is installed and their libbn is installed, and our libbn clobbers it
22:17.01louipcI hear of some people caching the whole system in memory hehe
22:17.49louipcbrlcad: that shouldn't happen with the pkgs checking for file conflicts
22:17.54brlcadkwizart: if there's build settings that I can change on our part, please let me know (e.g. the sed issues)
22:18.02louipc'rpm' as kwizart said
22:18.03brlcadlouipc: you'd think
22:20.31kwizartbrlcad, first step would be to use /usr/lib(64)/brlcad but it would be fine to have also librt-brlcad.so.19 (i knwo you will be disapointed but since it will be provided by brlcad-config or pkgconfig, does it would matter ?...)
22:20.56kwizartjust a thought...^^
22:22.22brlcad/usr/lib(64)/brlcad would be fine, but changing the .so's name would certainly be a last resort
22:22.55brlcadi mean in all fairness, would you consider renaming glibc's deprecated librt.so librt-glibc.so.19 ?  it's just as absurd
22:23.15kwizarti will try to see...
22:23.38brlcadespecially since theirs is 'dead' last I read, but even if it wasn't
22:23.50kwizartthen openssl also : /lib64/libssl.so.6 ( needs to checks)
22:24.30brlcadthere are potentially others as well, those are just two pretty popular/common conflicts that I can name
22:24.39kwizarti think glibc in Fedora 8 is enought recent to drop old things... (Fedora 8 will have glibc 2.7 )
22:26.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: re-enable the checks for tcl8.4, see if we can get both 8.4 and 8.5 working so beta isn't required.
22:26.29kwizarthum nice...
22:29.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: merge in the release notes from STABLE
22:30.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ChangeLog: merge in 7.10.4 ChangeLog from STABLE
22:30.35louipcwoo
22:41.05brlcadwoo hoo, down to 650 level 4 issues!
22:41.34brlcad(from about 1700)
23:04.18``Erikheh
23:05.44``Erikunfortunately, when I do a fresh checkout of my dev tree and delete all the 'imported' stuff, sloccount says I'm a little less impressive :/
23:09.31louipchmm
23:14.00*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@204-225-123-148.xdsl.convoke.net)
23:14.20``ErikSILENCE, MAGGOT!
23:22.02yukonbob~lart maggots
23:22.02ibotdoes a little 'dpkg -P maggots' action
23:26.13``Erikheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071027

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071027

00:09.32*** mode/#brlcad [+b %MAGGOT!*@*] by brlcad
00:32.23*** mode/#brlcad [-b %MAGGOT!*@*] by brlcad
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06:51.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/liboptical/material.c: don't blather verbose if we can't find the dynamic shader
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09:39.02Z80-Boybrlcad: how many people are using BRL-CAD to make raytraced videos?
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11:17.50illethalHi.
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16:29.55brlcadwoot, search box now expands
16:31.42brlcadZ80-Boy: it's not something that is done every day, usually for making presentation movies or for visualizing some specific results
16:32.51Z80-Boybrlcad: I changed my program for high-quality RGB->Y'CbCr conversion to have the table compiled inside the binary, and to be faster by reusing repeating values
16:33.09Z80-Boybrlcad: do you think that my program doesn't have a practical value then?
16:33.29Z80-Boyor let's say significant practical value, when people don't do videos often?
16:33.48brlcadehhhh.. i never indicated that it didn't have a practical value
16:34.05brlcadsounds like it clearly has some value, particularly to you, probably to others too
17:06.01Z80-BoyI meant to others
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17:06.16Z80-Boydo you think it makes sense to invest time into making it releasable as an add-on for BRL-CAD?
18:39.58brlcadZ80-Boy: probably, but then to be a proper addition there are still the redistribution issues
18:41.36brlcadif it was a polished and documented tool, it could be compiled and included into src/other with you retaining copyright, but would still have to be either LGPL or BSD licensed
18:42.31brlcadthe requirement of assignment hasn't changed on being included elsewhere in src (like src/util or src/anim)
18:42.43brlcadminute-ssh: finished!
18:43.09brlcad6 hours later and now both of the search boxes resize properly :)
18:44.39brlcadthe only nit-pick remaining that I'm still not really happy with is the download link
19:06.47Z80-Boybrlcad: and adding a section on the website with links to other programs that can be interfaced to BRL-CAD?
19:07.14brlcadthat's the idea for the wiki regardless, any community info of relevance
19:07.36brlcadbtw, there's a write-up on there already for ronja
19:07.45brlcadno pictures, yet, but it does have the text
19:07.56Z80-BoyURL?
19:08.00brlcadif you would review it for accuracy, that would be cool
19:08.15brlcadhttp://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Ronja
19:09.02minute-sshbrlcad: well done
19:09.23minute-sshgot anywhere with LDAP yet?
19:10.00minute-sshyeah, the download link looks a bit ugly
19:10.26minute-sshnot sure what it could be replaced with though
19:10.43Z80-Boy"The interactive geometry editor and ray-tracers in BRL-CAD are an integral part in the communication of design plans for Twibright labs and enables them to connect with the users, who are the driving force behind the User Controlled Technology ideal."
19:11.06Z80-BoyActually no user ever attempted to edit a 3D model of Ronja I did all
19:11.27Z80-BoyIt's not clear to me what "users, who are the driving force behind the User Controlled Technology ideal" means
19:12.05Z80-BoyI am also not sure how innovative my piece of equipment it is, considering the low-cost parts involved
19:12.18Z80-BoyBut one could say that the project is innovative, that definitely
19:12.24brlcadit doesn't say that users edit
19:12.39brlcadit says the editor and ray-tracers were used to connect with users
19:13.46brlcadmaybe help to read it more carefully before giving critique :P
19:14.07brlcadit's intentionally got marketing spin in it, the question is whether you're okay with it -- if you want to tweak it, go for it
19:15.02minute-sshbbl
20:31.52brlcadthere, that's a little better
20:46.02``Erikheh
21:52.18CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dbcp.c: quell compilation warnings, remove prs()
21:59.22CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: quell compilation warnings for constness changes
23:20.32*** join/#brlcad Quinthomas (n=blackang@68-191-98-150.dhcp.dctr.al.charter.com)
23:24.25*** part/#brlcad Quinthomas (n=blackang@68-191-98-150.dhcp.dctr.al.charter.com)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071028

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071028

02:13.32*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@CPE001125477e9c-CM0011e6be27b1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
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02:52.21*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
02:53.21*** join/#brlcad tarzeau (i=gurkan@bee.ethz.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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02:53.25*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
02:55.14*** join/#brlcad ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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02:55.19*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
02:55.19*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782509.dsl.bell.ca) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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02:56.10*** join/#brlcad ``Erik (i=erik@c-68-54-174-162.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
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04:22.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/dbcp.c: fix fpritnf typo
04:59.44*** join/#brlcad trainman419 (n=hendrix@75.15.127.134)
05:10.57CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/error.c: ws
05:42.28CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 5 dirs): more flawfinder and bu_exit conversions
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08:19.30*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-80-224.dclient.hispeed.ch)
10:01.00tarzeaux86_64-linux-gnu-gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../../include  -I../../../../src/other/libutahrle/include -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../../../include  -Wall -g -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -g -c `test -f 'crop.c' || echo './'`crop.c
10:01.04tarzeaucrop.c:29: warning: 'rcs_ident' defined but not used
10:01.05tarzeauwhen trying to build 7.10.4 on linux
10:06.15Z80-Boytarzeau: hi
10:06.20tarzeauhi Z80-Boy
10:06.26tarzeauclock!
10:06.36Z80-Boytarzeau: I am drawing the vgalamp schematic at the moment
10:06.40tarzeaui'm trying with --disable-iwidgets-build
10:06.43Z80-BoyThe values of components were missing
10:06.45tarzeauZ80-Boy: WOW!
10:06.48Z80-Boytarzeau: what's iwidgets?
10:07.32tarzeaudunno something which cause problem to build it for me maybe
10:08.01Z80-Boylibbreakcompile
10:09.59Z80-Boytarzeau: do you know what is franchise, rabatt and skoto with the krankenkasse?
10:10.14Z80-BoyI got some complicated leaflet and now I realized I don't understand anything at all
10:10.49tarzeauZ80-Boy: ouf, skonto is when you pay within 30 days you can take off 2% from the "rechnung"
10:11.04tarzeauZ80-Boy: rabatt is another discount. no idea about franchise
10:11.56Z80-Boytarzeau: franchise is those 1500 2000 or whatever CHF
10:12.13Z80-Boytarzeau: who actually gives you the rechnung, the doctor or the krankenkasse?
10:12.26tarzeauthe krankenkasse?
10:13.00Z80-Boyand if you have franchise 2500 and you go to a doctor for 300 then how much rechnung do you get? Full 300?
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10:31.41tarzeauno idea really
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11:32.22Z80-Boybrlcad: is it allowed to enter unnormalized vectors in put arbn8?
12:35.06brlcadtarzeau: that's just a warning, fwiw, on the rcs_ident string -- an old-style identifier
12:35.54brlcadiwidgets is a tcl extension package -- it doesn't actually have anything that compiles iirc, but disabling its building will tell it to try and use a system iwidgets library instead
12:36.39brlcadi've not heard of any problems with iwidgets doing anything, so would be interested in hearing what, if anything, is going on with your build wrt them
12:38.28brlcadZ80-Boy: afaik, that was the cause of the previous two bugs so the answer probably was no, but should now be yes if those were the only two issues
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17:28.04CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbfade.c: remove the non-stdarg interfaces, we can assume c89 now. c-set-style stroustrup ws too.
17:35.52CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbgamma.c: convert to libbu memory management
19:06.18*** join/#brlcad trainman419 (n=hendrix@75.15.127.134)
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22:13.12*** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
22:13.23tarzeaubrlcad: i'm desperately trying to build debian packages of brlcad, without success for a long time now, you can find the full build log here:
22:13.42tarzeaubrlcad: http://krum.ethz.ch/debian/brlcad/brlcad_7.10.4-1_amd64.build
22:17.55trainman419it looks like it's failing on iwidgets, do you have it installed?
22:31.36brlcadyeah, you've specifically turned off iwidgets but then either it's not installed or it's not being tested for appropriately
22:32.50*** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX34.andrew.cmu.edu)
22:32.51brlcadtarzeau: and I don't know if you've been listening in on the other conversations, but installing into /usr is presently highly ill-advised
22:33.19brlcadif there's a system librt.so from gcc, it'll get clobbered by ours
22:33.40brlcadpotential other lib conflicts with libbu and libbn depending on what is installed aprior
22:34.12tarzeaui tried without the disbaling iwidgets and that failed too
22:34.24tarzeaui'd put the librt.so into /usr/lib/brlcad/ then...
22:34.31tarzeaubut i can't even get it to build :(
22:34.53brlcadwhat's the error without disabling anything?
22:35.04tarzeaulet me see..
22:35.15brlcadnot disabling anything and enabling everything are the two most frequently tested configurations
22:35.35brlcadthey should both generally work unless there's a system misconfiguration or a bug in the build system
22:42.57tarzeauit's still building...
22:44.16tarzeaui know what the problem was
22:44.28tarzeaui wanted to build with LDFLAGS and CFLAGS
22:44.34tarzeauand leaving them away makes it work
22:44.42tarzeaui've had this problem with another big software project
22:44.54tarzeaulet me give you the options that i used, that made it fail:
22:45.49tarzeauCFLAGS="-O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs"
22:45.55tarzeautry configure with these added at the end
22:50.59trainman419brlcad: is linux brlcad compatible with ATI proprietary graphics drivers?
22:52.04brlcadtrainman419: sure, shouldn't matter afaik
22:52.16brlcadwe don't require opengl
22:52.39brlcadrendering occurs via ray-tracing or generic wireframe rendering
22:53.13trainman419well, when I try to use the framebuffer of an opengl window if makes the screen go all black
22:53.21trainman419X windows work ok, though
22:53.39brlcadah, sounds like "the opengl bug"
22:54.24brlcadwe've not been able to find the cause of that (bizarre) bug
22:54.58trainman419well, at least it's not just me
22:55.21brlcadsome bad interaction between opengl states and X11
22:55.30brlcad--disable-opengl to work around it
22:56.03brlcaddoesn't remove any functionality, but does make that particular problem go away
23:14.00trainman419brlcad: so, the raytracer doesn't use any opengl acceleration other than framebuffer?
23:19.28MaloeranIt doesn't, it's all software
23:29.10``ErikBLAHHHH
23:34.49MaloeranHey Erik, how's life?
23:43.45``Erikcontinuing.
23:57.24``Erikheh
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071029

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071029

00:06.22*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-16-62.hr.hr.cox.net)
00:06.53louipcwuzzat?
00:07.05starseekerFreebie game using the Tribes2 engine
00:07.11louipcah
00:07.36louipcsometimes it's necessary
00:07.41louipcbut not really for games :P
00:07.46starseekerI should just play bzflag ;-)
00:07.53louipchaha
00:08.02louipcit's fun for awhile
00:08.14louipcmaybe just because I'm not a big gamer
00:08.23starseekerYeah, that's pretty much my take on it
00:08.45starseekerI didn't do enough video games at a young age to acquire the shooting precision
00:08.47louipcI like to play the games to see if I can fix bugs hehe
00:08.59louipcopen source stuff
00:10.08starseekerTribes I was IMHO the high water mark of that type of game - Tribes2 just doesn't have the same feel
00:11.07starseekerReaper3d actually had a very nice looking engine, but it's been dead for years now
00:11.42louipcI find the problem with a lot of games is that they hog cpu
00:11.47louipceven for dumb 2d games
00:12.12starseekerIndeed
00:12.34starseekerthe old school guys from 30 years ago would be aghast at the use of hardware today...
00:13.13louipcyeah
00:13.57starseekerI think if hardware ever does reach some kind of stable performance we will see some major upheaval in programming styles...
00:15.55louipcwell we need better innovation in hardware architectures and such
00:16.02louipcno more x86 :P
00:55.58brlcadtrainman419: erhm, yeah .. not really any ray-tracer uses opengl accelleration; opengl is general raster image processor, ray-tracing is not a raster rendering
00:56.36brlcadthe final rendered image can be displayed into an opengl context, but you're still just displaying an image and don't necessarily need opengl for that
00:57.06brlcadthe modeler (mged) could leverage opengl a lot, but mged doesn't require opengl for what it does either
00:57.15``Erikheh
00:57.19trainman419ah, it all makes sense now
00:57.40``Erikerm
00:57.51``Erikraytracing can use ogl to rasterize... it'd just be, y'know, ass slow
00:58.52``ErikBAH, wench got drunk at a wedding and now wants to drive :( stupid whore
00:59.31``Erik:(
01:00.15trainman419yeah, I'm just used to things like solidworks that show rasteriezed images rather than raytraced images
01:00.44``ErikBRL-CAD doesn't have a "quick view" functionality, sorry
01:00.46MaloeranMmhm. You didn't go with her, Erik, despites the free alcohol? :)
01:00.48brlcadthey have ray-trace functions too, just not their main graphics display
01:00.58brlcadat least solidworks does
01:00.59``Erikdislacement issue, mal
01:01.28``Erikhe father is ill and in kc, so that's where she is :/
01:01.38MaloeranOh..
01:01.59``Erikkansas city, missouri
01:02.08brlcadtrainman419: our next modeling interface will intently utilize opengl through and through for the modeling interface
01:02.56brlcadtarzeau: where does the build fail for you with CFLAGS="-O2" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-z,defs" ... that seems to be working for me (on RHEL4)
01:03.00trainman419awesome! will that be in mged or archer? (or something new?)
01:03.14``Erikthe pasted message was a compiler warning, not an error
01:04.36brlcadtrainman419: neither, new interface
01:05.43brlcadhe's been working on that for years
01:05.46brlcadlittle by little
01:05.57``Erikyeah, but now he has bucks behind him
01:06.00brlcadtoo draining to only do that, even for him
01:06.07brlcadi mean even before
01:06.14brlcadhe started that before you arrived
01:06.18brlcadheck, before I started
01:06.19``Erik*nod*
01:06.26``Erikit's the right thing to do
01:06.28``Erikjust not sexy
01:06.34brlcadit is, just tons of grunt
01:07.01``Erikif he can commit 10% time to it, it's a major win
01:07.09brlcadBob's not the greatest at refactoring sometimes, a lot of very short term fixes without the refactoring
01:07.21brlcadoften detrimental to what he has to deal with down the road
01:07.27brlcador what others have to do to maintain it..
01:07.37brlcadthe code gets there though
01:07.37``Erikheh
01:07.56``ErikI'd hope that if he puts effort there, it'd spin off work
01:08.48``Erikfor laid code, ... windows or tcl :/
01:09.00brlcadyeah, just having a few more working on development will make a big change
01:09.13brlcadmaybe even start to look like what things were like before M3
01:09.23``Erikheh
01:09.24starseekerM3?
01:09.27``Erik:(
01:09.28brlcadstill need two more though at minimally
01:09.39brlcad*minimally*
01:09.42``Erikthe project that killed the momentum of BRL-CAD, star
01:09.48starseekerouch
01:10.45``Erikthe core idea was actually good, but pointy hairs got a hold of it... then gutted "the cad team", then proceeded to chase most of 'em away with micromanagement
01:10.57brlcadrather.. stole motivation, funding, attention, developers, ...
01:11.32brlcadalas, those are more and more turning into just history with the surge of new interest
01:11.57brlcadjust took a few years for the turnaround
01:11.58starseekeralas?  Are good ideas being lost?
01:12.03brlcadeverything happens in waves
01:12.26``Erikgood ideas were had and given... interpretation... ... heh...
01:12.39brlcad"alas", hopefully the brunt of the bad days are behind us now
01:13.12brlcadfor our group at least, it's changing
01:13.22``Erikyeah.... I'm bitter
01:13.23``Erik*shrug*
01:13.44``Erikthe best aspect I see is that the GPL/LGPL/BSD push worked
01:14.00``Erik<-- likes to pretend he had a serious roll in that *shrgu*
01:14.10starseekerThat's virtually miraculous - I still remember the shock when I saw the announcement
01:14.12brlcadyeah, the diverted attention helped that in a (very) minor regard
01:14.39``Erik(the part I meant was the automake vs cake side)
01:15.12brlcadyeah, thank jeebus we don't still have to deal with cake hell
01:15.18``Erikehehhehe
01:15.28``ErikI was dumbstruck on seeing tht
01:15.32brlcadfor all of the autohell, it wasn't as bad as cakehell
01:15.41brlcads/wasn't/isn't/
01:15.53``Erikand that lee said "it's broken? ok, go fix it"...
01:15.58``Erikthat was a good state
01:16.06starseekerSome of the national labs have open source stuff (Paraview is an example) but I don't recall anything similar coming from the Army side except GRASS
01:16.48``Erikhum, cool
01:17.03brlcadstarseeker: technically grass was just "given away" when it was done, public domained because it was a done/dead project
01:17.06``ErikI stepped in and was working on the fbsd port and autotools before I even got an account
01:17.18starseekerbrlcad:  Oh, OK.
01:17.35brlcadonly because the community stepped up and a few took ownership (and claimed a copyright after significant changes) did it become open source
01:17.40``Erikperhaps just "a place to put" the new guy O:-)
01:17.52starseekerI pointed it out to my dad a few times - I don't know if anyone in his group ever took a poke at it or not
01:18.43starseekerIt looked/looks impressive, for it's problem domain (not that I'm an expert in that field)
01:19.14``Erikstarseeker: do you use ttcp? ping? tcp/ip? mr muuss was a heavy hitter in those in the name of the army...
01:19.42brlcadas far as I discovered during the legal research, BRL-CAD was the first *active* project in U.S. Army that I could find that went straight to open source licensing
01:19.57starseeker``Erik:  Yes, I'd read about that.  I regret arriving too late on the scene to ever get a chance to meet Mike Muss
01:20.06``Erikme too :(
01:20.27starseekerbrlcad:  I can believe it.  It's a very impressive accomplishment
01:20.28brlcadmaybe even first in DoD, but that's not likely .. just nothing really popular/notorious or at least that I was able to find after a lot of searching and contact prodding
01:20.49``Erikfirst as in conception date or ?
01:21.14brlcadfirst to release code legally as OSS
01:21.38brlcadnon public-domain
01:21.55``Erikheh,t hat's artificial, dude
01:21.56brlcadthere are plenty of public domain examples that have been picked up
01:22.01``Erikpd is oss friendly
01:22.55``Erikalso;
01:22.58brlcadnot so much that it "died" but that the group that created it no longer was directed to maintain it
01:23.11``Erikbrlcad, *smack* it's MUVES-3, don't sully the name "m3", my car deserves better
01:23.30starseekerbrlcad:  Ah, that will do it
01:23.59``Erikmany projects have survived the originator... that's the beauty of oss, it CAN survive
01:24.00brlcadyes, PD is OSS, but it's not like it takes any active effort and is almost always done on a "done" code
01:24.35brlcadlicenseless vs picking an OSS license
01:24.48``Erikshould I hack in gettext support on ping and do an "army" release? :D
01:25.02brlcaddude, are you totally missing the point?
01:25.24brlcadit's not the same
01:25.41starseekerbrlcad:  I guess in a sense Maxima falls into that category too - it was originally under DOE control (which is why it still has that rather odd note about US arms export restrictions in the copying file...)
01:25.47``Erikapparently O.o *shrug* I don't equate gpl and oss :(
01:26.22``Erikdoe has dumped a fair bit of interesting stuff
01:26.23brlcadmabye if I qualified it as an OSS *license* as opposed to just OSS
01:26.58``Erikunfortunately, 'cougaar' was completely ignored by this certain army group... *cough*
01:27.08brlcadI don't know of another example outside the nat. labs, nasa, and a few other gov't groups that have gone straight to licensed OSS
01:27.33``Erikisn't pd on the osi list?
01:27.41brlcadPD isn't a license
01:27.54brlcadbeing PD does make you OSS, but it's not a license
01:27.55``Erikheh, it's past license :D
01:27.57starseekerPD is simply a renouncing of copyright rights
01:28.42``Erikstarseeker: I'd actaully be a bit scared of that code... heavy assembly (even if well written), classic C style, ...
01:29.05``Eriklookin' at the 4.3 bsd code was humbling
01:29.26starseeker``Erik:  I suppose that's true - the idea of the debugging they do and the methodology they use is actually what interests me the most
01:29.36*** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
01:29.50``ErikI know that faa restrictions of software development is... insane
01:30.15starseekerAssuming this article knew what it was talking about, that is:  http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html
01:32.48``Erikand I'm sure they dont' trust the software 100% :D
01:34.33starseeker``Erik:  Overstated?
01:35.06``Erikum, cmmi is an interesting notion and probably has value, btu the implementation as it stands is ...
01:35.07``Erikheh
01:35.39``Erikamusingly enoughl, gillich said something brilliant about cmmi... "it's a yard stick"
01:35.43``Erikor something to that nature
01:36.08``Erikin itself, it offers nothing... it's merely a possible mechanism to measure with
01:36.52starseekerAh
01:40.24starseekerbrlcad:  There's a question on the Gentoo bug about AMD64 - for some reason it didn't find itcl/itk if I'm reading that message right, but I don't know why itcl/itk would fail on AMD64?
01:41.02``Eriktcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidigts all worsk fine on amd64 fbsd
01:41.14starseekerThat's what I thought.  Hmm.
01:41.59starseekerHe says it works in chrooted 32 bit environment.  Odd
01:48.20starseekerMonday morning could be a little rough...
01:49.22``Erik<- doesn't work on monday :D
01:49.46starseekerAh - that helps
01:50.28brlcadstarseeker: see if they can provide a configure and build log as well as the config.log somewhere
01:50.40``Erik*grump* stupid wench is drunk as fuck :(
01:51.10``Erik~bzpastebin
01:51.19ibotbzpastebin is probably http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel
01:51.19``Erikheh
01:51.38``Erikprobably.
01:52.02``Erik"without their heads, they're powerless!"
01:52.35starseekerbrlcad:  Request posted.
01:53.27brlcadthanks
01:53.31starseekernp
01:53.36``ErikI'd totally get on anna faris.
01:53.50starseekerbrlcad: Oh, did you see my last question about b-reps?
01:54.34brlcadmm
01:54.34brlcadnope
01:54.53starseekerprobably dumb, but if you're bored...
01:55.16starseekerNaive question - the existence of brep at a primitive level - how does that make the core logic of model -> mesh simpler?  Would it mean that models would have to be rebuilt with the new primitive or would the conversion of old primitives to b-rep be less expensive?
01:55.38brlcadbrep as a primitive provides the base-level representation
01:55.52brlcadyou still need a means to load up existing implicits as a brep
01:56.09``Eriknotionally, if we had a fast ->brep conversion method, we know brep->triangles is fast, so we could bypass all the nmg bs
01:56.31brlcadfortunately, that part actually isn't that bad -- you can create an ellipsoid brep if you have the implicit form pretty straightforward
01:56.44brlcadyep, it bypasses the whole mess
01:56.51starseekerSwwweeeettt
01:57.09brlcadthe hardest part (and it certainly is non-trivial, but easier than the nmg approach) is CSG evaluation of BREPS
01:57.16``Eriknmg tries to do some tricky stuff from a poor starting point :( also; it's fucking ugly
01:58.05brlcadcsg evaluation of breps involves creating new brep surfaces that trim away various parts of arbitrary surfaces and weaves in other surfaces
01:58.33``Erikis it still a weave in brep space?
01:58.34brlcadnumerically should be a heck of a lot more stable simply because you retain the actual structure instead of something that's been deconstructed already
01:59.10starseekerNice.  IIRC, you said the csg evaluation is the main remaining component?
01:59.25``Erikthe weave notion is brilliant for striaght raytracing, but is bass ackwards for anything else :(
01:59.28brlcadyeah, you still have to attach surfaces from object A to those of object B (assuming they overlap) trimming off the parts on the interior or in negative space
01:59.43brlcadit's not that kind of weaving
01:59.56``Erik<- thinking boolweave
01:59.56brlcadjust my terminology for attaching the two
02:00.03brlcadyeah, nothing at all like boolweave
02:00.33brlcadeven current nmg approach has nothing to do with boolweave
02:00.40``Erikand for straight up "through" raytracing, I doubt I'd have thought of anything that clever
02:01.05``ErikI'd probably have been stuck on resolving the geometry before shooting it :D
02:01.09starseekerphew - maybe not a dumb question :-)  I was afraid I was missing something obvious, but it sounds like a very elegant mathematical workaround
02:01.10brlcadit's approach actually isn't much different either other than the surface patches are an order or two smaller than the average BREP surfaces
02:01.43``Erikbut these days, resolving the geometry is becoming more important
02:02.27brlcadNMGs actually are a BREP.. just most people implicitly mean spline surface boundary representation when they say brep, not n-manifold polygonal boundary representation
02:02.28``Erikeven wireframe, just having the 'cutters' rendered intuitively...
02:02.52starseekerbrlcad:  Is there a good paper on the mathematics of geometry->brep and brep->mesh conversion mathematics?
02:02.54``Eriknmg is almost always associated with tesselating
02:02.59brlcadhaving this done would make it possible to show the interior plot lines too
02:03.54brlcadyeah, technically our nmg lib can handle nurbs too -- that's how stay's nurbs code was written -- but the main and original use is polygonal
02:04.24``Erikbut jay-lo's code doesn't hit nmg?
02:04.27brlcadstarseeker: several books, but there's not really a single good paper on it
02:04.36brlcadnope, he avoided nmg entirely
02:04.42brlcadand intentionally
02:04.47brlcaduses opennurbs instead of nmg
02:04.55``Erikone of these days, he's gonna kick my ass for calling him jay lo
02:04.55brlcadfor the representation
02:05.07starseekerbrlcad:  Books work, if they aren't $$$$$ on Amazon ;-)
02:05.29``Erikum
02:05.37brlcadstarseeker: wait till you're on-site -- there's plenty of books you can get
02:05.44brlcadif you get on-site of course :)
02:05.48starseekerbrlcad:  cool
02:06.04``Erikthere was that paper that had omfg fast raytracing and ->bot conversion on NURBS, I think? at utah?
02:06.16brlcadyeah, that's a great paper, but not a great into paper
02:06.21brlcads/into/intro/
02:06.29brlcadRT06 paper
02:06.30``Erikheh, no, it assumes base competency
02:07.00``Erikstarseeker: if you're up to the challenge, someone will get you the info.
02:07.44``Erikon sight or not
02:07.45Maloeranthinks* too
02:07.55``Erikheh
02:08.06``Erikwrite up a paper, submit to ieee rt and siggraph :D
02:08.13MaloeranSounds boring :)
02:08.16brlcadstarseeker: just searching google will pull up a handful of papers
02:08.24starseekerbrlcad:  OK :-)
02:09.02starseeker``Erik:  This one?  Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces - Oliver Abert, Markus Geimer, Stefan Muller
02:09.20MaloeranThese curved triangles would require more primitives than nurbs, but are so much cheaper for rays to intersect
02:09.44``ErikI'm sure they're much less expressive than t-nurbs
02:10.28MaloeranThey wouldn't describe nurbs perfectly, but it sure can be a good compromise for performance and accuracy, between nurbs and triangles
02:10.37``ErikI think so, starseeker
02:10.49``ErikI think I'm thinking of "Direct and Fast Ray Tracing of NURBS Surfaces
02:10.50``ErikOliver Abert, Markus Geimer, Stefan Muller"
02:10.55``Erikhttp://www.sci.utah.edu/~wald/RT06/papers/papers_presentations.html
02:11.20starseekerYep - hmm, no direct link
02:11.39``ErikI have the book sitting ontop of my winderz spaceheater
02:11.41MaloeranI would scan and send if I had a scanner
02:11.51brlcade.g. http://www.gup.uni-linz.ac.at/~gk/docs/162CT.pdf
02:11.51starseekerGoogle to the rescue, I think...
02:11.57``Erikheh
02:12.06brlcadstarseeker: also a pretty good in-depth thesis read: http://cadd.web.cern.ch/cadd/cad_geant_int/thesis/vaitos_main.html
02:12.17``Erikand mal just sat there coding and gawking at college chicas instead of listening
02:12.21``Erik:D
02:12.50MaloeranI think you were the one dreaming of college chicas. There was one girl in the entire audience at that conference? :)
02:12.53starseekerCool - GEANT :-).  I wacked my head trying to get that to compile for Gentoo once ;-)
02:12.55brlcadand yeah, that's the rt06 paper
02:13.12``Erikwas a good conf... didn't hurt with the awesomeness like siggraph, but was far better than the javaone pep rally
02:13.35``Erikthere were a few girls in the group, but the eye candy was when we were out of the conf room
02:13.36``Erik:D
02:13.39starseekerhttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~mgm/papers/rt06.pdf seems to be ``Erik's but it's not coughing it up right now - I'll try later
02:13.50starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks :-)
02:13.54``Erik(though the girl from unc wasn't hard on the eyes, and smrrt, too)
02:14.03brlcadthere actually are a fair bit of good references and implementations for tessellation of breps -- to varying degrees of water tightness
02:14.28``Erikheh
02:14.29``Erikum
02:14.38``Erikduring the poster presentation, she had the huge crowd
02:14.44MaloeranAhah
02:14.55``Eriksomething about using gpu's to trace complex structures or something
02:15.09``Erikuh, she was hardware side iirc
02:15.09MaloeranI think I prefer a girl that can teach me stuff radically different than maths and code
02:15.09brlcadgrid of gpus
02:15.34``Erikbrlcad still wanks thinkin' about her :D *duck*
02:16.41brlcadactually don't remember what she even looked like
02:16.46brlcadbut do remember that she was there
02:17.34``Erikheh, I was mroe boggled that something worth seeing came out of unc than that there was a woman presenting
02:17.45brlcadshirley's paper relates a bit to what we've currently got implemented: http://www.cs.utah.edu/~shirley/papers/raynurbs.pdf
02:17.53``Erikpeter shirly?
02:17.59brlcadyeah
02:18.05``Erikisn't he leeberts advisor?
02:18.27brlcadcould be
02:18.48``Erikpeter and ingo were the two people lee was sucking up to
02:18.52``Erikiirc
02:19.15``Erikand ingo is a fresh associate, I think
02:19.59brlcadI believe ingo left for intel
02:20.07brlcadstarted the week of siggraph
02:20.13brlcadthat's why he wasn't there
02:20.34starseekerbrlcad,``Erik:  I've got to call it a night, but I appreciate the references - thanks much!
02:20.41brlcadstarseeker: see ya
02:20.56``Erikhuh
02:21.01``Eriklater, starseeker :D
02:21.28``Erikintel must be droppin' some real coin for a cool job, I mean
02:21.41``Erikreshetov, now wald?
02:23.53MaloeranWald writes a lot, but doesn't have much to say
02:24.09``Erikhe's smart and capable, but he tries to dominate discussions, from what I saw
02:24.18MaloeranYes, he likes to be at the center of things
02:24.46``Erikit's good that he does what he does, but he aint' the bees knees :D
02:25.16louipcwhat is good about bees' knees?
02:25.31``Erik(and, uh, I"d rather have a loud arrogant wald publishing papers than a real clever chicken who just writes proprietary code. *cough*)
02:26.02``ErikI can read a paper and learn :D
02:26.05brlcadhe has gotten stuff done -- simply (and proactively) goes after getting attention for it too
02:26.20brlcadto each their own, getting stuff done is what matters
02:26.30brlcadand if you don't tell anyone about it, then you might as well have not done it
02:26.55louipcindeed you need to ruffle some feathers
02:27.00``Erikhacking up some brilliant code and then locking the notions down by not putting source or papers out ...
02:27.29``Erikpatents might actually be worse
02:27.40``Erik:D
02:27.58MaloeranFine fine, I get the point :)
02:28.10``Erikanyways, papers are good
02:28.31``Erikthe error smelled of broken system when first pasted :(
02:28.33MaloeranSure papers are good, I'm just annoyed by the number of papers devoid of any content
02:28.43``Erikok... mal... fix that.
02:28.50``Erikkick out a paper or 3 with content
02:29.21``Erikmost papers value is in tiny incremental steps :/ not too many are brilliant strides of length, these days
02:29.30brlcadever
02:29.40MaloeranI thought I wrote some 3-4 pages that contained what mattered
02:29.52``ErikI'm still in awe at the brilliance of CS papers from the 50's and 60's given the state at the time
02:29.53brlcadalways the case, not all of them can be seminal papers :)
02:30.27brlcadi was just watching sutherland's sketchpad demo earlier today
02:30.33brlcadseriously impressive for the time
02:30.33``Erikheh
02:30.39``Erikmake burga buy you real aussie beer.
02:30.46``Erikor I will fucking kick his ass
02:30.51MaloeranAhah, fine
02:30.57``Erikum
02:31.03``Erikhe's in sydney?
02:31.15MaloeranBrisbane, I'll be staying just a day in Sydney before going up there
02:31.16``ErikI wanna say, uh, perth has something called uh, 'black swan'?
02:31.25MaloeranAnd what is it?
02:31.27brlcadhave a chiko roll while you're there
02:31.28``Erikthat my dad claimed was damn good
02:31.32brlcadi hear they're pretty yummy
02:31.40MaloeranA chicken roll?
02:31.42``Erikoh, also; hit the beach and romp some of that hot aussie tail
02:31.43``Erik*cough*
02:32.14brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiko_Roll
02:32.26MaloeranI know Erik, I was already instructed by Sophie to do so o.O
02:32.40MaloeranCurious snack
02:33.09``Erikhum
02:33.10brlcadhttp://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/upfromaustralia/chikochick.jpg
02:33.14brlcadhttp://i10.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/a5/a8/1441_1.JPG
02:33.15``Erikdamnit
02:33.19``Eriknow I want some lumpia :(
02:33.41``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpia
02:33.58brlcad"was designed to be able to be eaten with one hand whilst drinking a beer with the other" <-- chiko roll
02:34.06MaloeranInspiring
02:35.20``Erikthe lumpia my mom makes is mostly carrot, cabbage and beef, about the size of a finger, deep fat fried
02:36.09MaloeranI'm mostly looking forward to scuba diving over there
02:36.15MaloeranAnd rock climbing of course
02:36.15``Erikheh
02:36.24MaloeranI'll have to find people for that though, Burga doesn't climb
02:36.25``Erikum, atch out for the sea snakes
02:36.40``Erikmy dad has some stories about running into sea snakes in aussie waters O.o
02:36.52``Erikhighly venemous fuckers
02:37.09MaloeranAre they dangerous even when wearing a wet suit?
02:37.21``Erikyeah, theyc an be up to 6' long
02:37.48``Erikbarracudas out there, too
02:37.50MaloeranHum, ouch. I'm reading about these for the first time
02:38.05MaloeranJellyfishes are usually no big deal with a wet suit
02:38.14``Eriknah, they're surface stingers
02:38.16``Eriknot biters
02:38.18brlcadMaloeran: give a try at surfing if you're near a coast
02:38.21brlcadsome of the best surfing to be had
02:38.35``Erikteeth go through wetsuits
02:38.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/Makefile.am: gah, merge from head .. need TCLSTUB to be included else there be unresolved symbols on Mac and now also seen on Linux too
02:38.52MaloeranSure I'll try. I wasn't too good at that when I tried in Mexico
02:39.07Maloeran( At least in comparison to Sophie who is a snowboard teacher )
02:39.15``Erikif ya shake up north a bit, hit okinawa :D I lived there for 3 yrs
02:39.16brlcadmeh, still like ten times more likely you're going to get slammed into in your car on the way to the beach than you are to be bit at the beach
02:39.31``Erikindeed, heh
02:39.41``Erikdon't fuck with an animal, and it won't fuck with you
02:39.43``Erik:)
02:40.00brlcadunless you can buy her a drink first
02:40.02MaloeranThanks for this piece of wisdom :)
02:40.09``Erikhehe
02:40.20``Erikmmmm, hot aussie tail
02:42.30brlcadthat's the second "already fixed on head" issue i've found now .. drat drat
02:43.15MaloeranThat's a curious wedding ceremony
02:43.27``Erik7.12.0 yo
02:53.36brlcadhm.. setting LDFLAGS does seem to cause it to not pass the X11 flags through, fails at blt
02:55.12brlcadah, they're actually not listed for blt
02:57.28``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1782347
03:00.24``Erik"panburger partner" O.o
03:00.28``Erikhttp://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1781996
03:04.32*** join/#brlcad tttttt (n=root@222.190.111.98)
03:04.45ttttttcvvcnbbn
03:05.58*** part/#brlcad tttttt (n=root@222.190.111.98)
03:07.04``Erikssoommeeoonnee  nneeeeddss  ttoo  ttuurrnn  ooffff  eecchhoo
03:07.14``ErikO:-)
03:08.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: blt actually makes direct calls to X11, so need to include the goods here else face the wrath of unresolved symbols on some plats (encountered on RHEL)
03:11.05brlcadwoot root
03:28.03``Erik<PROTECTED>
03:28.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: blt *requires* X11 to function, turn it off if x11 isn't available
03:28.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: I have no clue what a "BUFXIZE" is, but I know what BUFSIZ is...
03:31.06bpoolehaha. BUFXIZE?
03:31.53``Erikthat's what was in teh source
03:31.59``Erikand I rpobably did it :(
03:32.47bpoolegj.
03:33.58``Erikactually, it was brlcad that did that, heh
03:34.05``Erik-       strncat(suffix, suffix2, BUFSIZ);
03:34.05``Erik+       snprintf(suffix, BUFXIZE, "%s", suffix2);
03:34.35``Erikbad chris, bad!
03:34.47``Erik1.46 -> 1.47
03:36.24brlcadyep, just a simple typo
03:36.47brlcadnot the first, undoubtedly the last
03:37.07brlcadif that's the only one after about 1000 of them, my error rate is prety freaking sweet
03:37.19``Erikand I felt bad cuz I let a commit go without proper build testing
03:37.38brlcadi even built, for whatever reason it passed the build
03:37.53``ErikI can't think of why, other than bad timestamping
03:38.01brlcador some sys header that had it
03:38.03``Erikthere's no cpp switch on that
03:38.17``ErikBUFXIZE ? O.o
03:38.44``Erik#include <myfingersaretwistedandunusablebecauseIuseemacs.h>
03:40.09brlcaduh huh, that had nothing to do with emacs
03:40.36``ErikO:-)
03:40.56``Erikactually, I lost my emacs session
03:41.17``Erikpower outage dropped the machine, and I was kinda operating in the 'emacs is my os' mode :/
03:41.46bpoole``Erik: how's that going for you ? (emacs)
03:41.56brlcadtrivial typos are my favorite kind of build errors.. because they're obvious, generally easy to provoke, and easy to fix .. typos, transposed lines, missing terminators, etc
03:42.45``Erikbeen busy with other things, ben... got a machine on loan to replace my "stable" machine, so trying to get the ports updated :/
03:43.58brlcada good indicator of how involved someone is with a project too -- those involved just fix it and go on, those not as closely involved seem compelled to complain or comment
03:44.26brlcadseen that happen on at least a half-dozen oss projects .. and in-house closed
03:44.57brlcadnot a black and white meter, but interesting trend nonetheless
03:45.28``ErikI fixed it AND whined, and not on paid time, so foff :D
03:45.56brlcadI didn't take that as a whine
03:47.42brlcadtalking more the sort that sit on the error without even reading it, throw their hands up and cry "it's broken !! omfg!"
03:48.26brlcads/more/specifically/
03:50.29``Erikwe call those "gentoo portage maintainers" ;) *duck*
03:50.33``ErikO:-)
03:50.36brlcadsee it *all* the time on BZ in particular, you would have thought the world had ended
03:51.01``Erikgames are a harsh place to be in general
03:51.14brlcaddon't even have to compile-test, there are like two dozen kiddies that will let you know within an hour crying
03:51.54``Erik<-- generally tries to at least compile to object before committing
03:52.08``Erikbut I've commited assuming it's right before... like the clone MFC ... O:-)
03:52.36``ErikI've been angling more towards heavy testing though... 'distcheck' on releases, etc
03:52.40brlcadyeah, everyone does it from time to time
03:52.46brlcadi think that's part of the behavior
03:53.08``Erikmy personal projects are generally unbranched...
03:53.12CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: partial merge from head, need x11
03:53.32``Erikactually, I have one that's close to another release, but I'm waffling due to license issues
03:53.38brlcadthe folks that do that a lot 'generally' tend to be more fluid and not so annoyed/concerned .. those that don't so frequently..
03:53.54``Erikthe code is under BSD license, I'm trying to decide whether to throw out a version that has gettext support
03:54.00brlcadlee actually tended to do that more and more over the years the less he coded
03:54.17``Erikinternationalization is a good thing, but the license concern..
03:56.07brlcadI don't like to give anyone shit about it unless they press the point
03:56.10brlcadEVERYONE does it
03:56.12``Erikif I push on gettext on my personal projects, I might try adding it to brlcad
03:56.13brlcaddeal with it
03:56.27``Erikyeah, everyone does it, but if ya never get grief, you dont' try to get better
03:56.29brlcadgettext is gpl...
03:56.39brlcadthat's not true
03:56.40``Erikwhen I fuck up, call me on it... I'll try to improve
03:57.02``Erik<-- more in teh 'harsh abrasive' camp O:-)
03:57.12brlcadi mean there are a few that are pathologically bad at making broken commits.. but they're pretty darn rare
03:57.27brlcadi don't think that helps, myself
03:57.35``Erikyeah, *shrug* but I'm an asshole
03:57.37brlcadjust adds tension
03:58.02``ErikI haze with a smile, it's about the quality above all
03:58.10brlcadespecially when it's really trivial crap that doesn't matter one bit and is really obvious
03:58.44brlcadi mean, optimization of effort -- there are bigger issues to be complaining about and working on than typo commits
03:58.55``Erikof course, I had some beat-down experiences where doubel-checking before hitting the button seriously matters
03:59.28brlcadyeah, if you're changing core code, or without regard to the impact, understandable
03:59.43``Eriksysadmin on machines where a typo could mean several millions of dollars lost and standing in a vp's office explaining exactly how ya fucked up and how it'll never happen again...
04:00.09``Erikso I'm pretty ashamed of that macro issue in the clone.c mfc :(
04:00.17brlcadsysadmin's a diff matter, you don't have the revision control safety net and 'undo' revertability usually
04:00.20``Erik(yes, it bugs me)
04:00.33``Erikactually, ya do in a good sa situation
04:00.33brlcadsee, that's a meh issue to me other than being so close to release
04:00.43brlcadit would have been caught on the final compilation test
04:00.55``Eriki wrote a bit of the "move to production" subsystem
04:01.15``Erikit was all cvs or rcs backed, it all had complete 'undo' capability
04:01.34``Erikand the machines configurations were all managed in a backed up central repo
04:01.35``Erikuh
04:01.36brlcadyeah, but that's still pretty rare for most places
04:01.37``Erikg08
04:02.04``Erikreplace a machine with new hw? one line and it was generated back to production capability
04:02.37``Erikfrom what I've heard from friends, it's pretty common for "decent" organizations. :/ I'm annoyed with our environment
04:02.57``Erikwe get ripped on for being "hobby shop", but the crap that's taken away is very much hobby shop
04:03.08``Erikand I'm not allowed to go fix it *sigh*
04:04.43``Erik"boob bones" heehhe
04:04.48brlcadimho (not that you're asking) that's because you either ask for/expect permission (hah) or aren't tactful on showing the benefit or hiding the time spent ..
04:05.21``Erikyeah... I'm very not tactful and too open :/
04:05.23brlcadpath to frustration
04:05.44``Erik"shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my way" worked dandy at fedex, less politics
04:06.02``Erikand it's the norm for OSS in my experience
04:06.04brlcadbetter management
04:06.08brlcadfor both
04:06.28``Erikmy line manager at fedex... heh
04:06.34``Erikhe actually fell on his sword.
04:06.36``Erik*cough*
04:07.03``Erikhe sued his manager and won whiel I was leaving... he really omfg fell on his sword
04:07.09brlcadlee has actually gone to bat for me several times over the years
04:07.19``Erikme too, so has ed
04:07.39``ErikI don't leverage them enough :)
04:07.58brlcadtrue dat
04:08.03``Erik*shrug*
04:09.21``Erik<-- too honest and up front... folk like dwayne seem to appreciate it, but mgmt doesn't
04:09.39brlcadhm, there is a bsd gettext
04:09.57brlcadhttp://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/bsd-gettext/
04:10.03``Erikat postgres
04:10.04``Erikyeah
04:10.18``Erik<- scratches his chin
04:10.25brlcadthat would work
04:10.30brlcadthe gnu one is teh evil
04:10.45``Erikone of my apps (gpl) had gnu gettext and I ended up removing it for some reason
04:10.46brlcadlicense-wise
04:10.51``Erikum, rand
04:11.04``ErikI was looking to add it to timestamp, but the license issue... heh
04:11.19brlcadhuh?
04:11.41``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=7
04:11.46``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=95
04:12.04brlcadah
04:12.15``Eriksimple little utils :)
04:13.05brlcadwhat's running your site there?  you wrote software.php and have a descriptor file per project or something?
04:13.56``Erikum, it's backed by postgres
04:14.09``Eriksoftware.php just talks to the db
04:14.18``Erikall scratch written, fairly old
04:14.21brlcadk
04:15.01``Erikwent for a semi-/. feel, wrote it just before /. did the registration stuff iirc
04:15.21brlcadlooking to (finally) set up something similar for my data archive, but have been *trying* to avoid custom
04:15.55brlcadsomething minimal-yet-flexible for my various code and non-code projects
04:15.57``Erikheh, mycrap has been maintenance for a long time, so it doesn't matter to me
04:16.11brlcadcouple hundred that I've ever worked on, some private, most public, all already organized hierarchically
04:16.17``Erikif I had to start from scratch, i'd probably go for a wiki based thing
04:17.08brlcadhmmm.. i suppose mediawiki could handle it with a custom module
04:17.13``Erikall my crap shows age :(
04:17.31``Erik'rand' and 'vp' before image viewers could do what those do
04:17.46brlcadthing is I don't want to add each project individually, hoping to just create a descriptor file throughout my archive that has the access details, and let the module take care of it
04:18.30``Erikhum, mine has a form to add each project, and af orm to add each OS to each project, and a from for each release, and a form for each news entry...
04:18.57brlcadhrm, more linkage errors on rhel
04:19.27``Erikhum, looks like my big web move was in jul '99
04:19.41brlcadyeah, that works for software, but a lot of mine is fairly 'random' .. lots of non-code projects too
04:20.12brlcadsome artwork, some literature, photography
04:20.18``Erikheh, I should rename the 'articles' to 'essays' I think
04:20.55``Erikand my fbsd/ directory isn't wired to the db or php, it's just cvs'd html
04:20.56brlcadjust about any CMS would work, but I so don't want to "populate" a CMS, I want the archive to be "the" data that the site presents
04:21.10``Erikwait, it does use php, so I can have a +
04:21.27``Erikmod_lisp looks interesting
04:21.37louipcoh man php is messy
04:21.44``ErikI need to test if it can persist contained data
04:22.04``Erikum, like have each connection thread able to access a 'global' structure
04:26.58``Erikheh, wow
04:27.33*** part/#brlcad trainman419 (n=hendrix@75.15.127.134)
04:27.41``Erik'gwci' before firefox, ...
04:27.49``Erikiview... my first and only c&d :D
04:37.10``Erikehehhee an entry when I bought my first mac :)
04:54.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/Makefile.am: more undefined references on RHEL, need LIBGL if opengl is enabled
04:55.51CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/Makefile.am: more undefined references on RHEL -- need the deps for rt, bn, and bu
05:18.05CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: more RHELness, multispectral needs symbols from optical
05:21.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/Makefile.am: uses libm
05:26.30CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): more flawfinding quellage and bu_exiting
05:26.45``Eriktequila is evil.
05:28.15CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: quell constness warnings, make the editor string const
05:28.28louipcwowsers
05:28.34brlcadhey ``Erik .. question for ya
05:28.46brlcadprobably not the best time if your tequealing
05:28.52brlcadbut ..
05:29.38brlcadtrying to come up with some way to add -Werror to the build now that we're almost completely warningless on some platforms ..... but not for anything in src/other
05:29.54brlcadany ideas?
05:30.01louipchacking drunk is a blast
05:30.07louipcwell anything drunk is a blast
05:30.10brlcad:)
05:33.58``Erikheh, uhhhh
05:34.26``ErikI kinda had the notion of moving $(top_srcdir)/src/other to $(top_srcdir)/contrib
05:34.37``Erikso abuse can be applied to src/ without crap getting in the mix
05:35.17``ErikI don't know of any way to undo a cflag without automake bitching
05:35.54brlcadmaybe after svn
05:36.07``Erik*nod* would be ugly on cvs
05:36.09brlcadthat's one way I suppose, could then add it to the subtree
05:36.45``Erikwell
05:36.54``Erikyou know my opinion on the src/other dir
05:36.56``Erik*shrug*
05:37.11brlcadyep
05:37.19``ErikI was actually a bit upset with how many imports I found in my personal cvs repo :(
05:37.26``Eriksiod, quack 2, ...
05:37.56``Erik<-- talks it, but doesn't always walk it :(
05:40.27``Eriknow, uh, if you feel like being repetitive, you could always add it to AM_CFLAGS for each dir
05:41.26brlcadyeah, nah, that'd suck
05:41.33``Erikon personal projects, I like "-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic", but BRL-CAD doesn't cope well with that rig
05:41.36brlcadthe benefit is pretty minimal, just nice housekeeping
05:41.55``Erikheh
05:42.03``ErikI almost got one of my project splint clean
05:42.13brlcadyeah, that's pretty standard set
05:42.22brlcadusually use the same
05:42.31``Erikflawfinder has a couple low hits (getopt not protecting buffers on old platforms, etc)
05:42.54brlcadi wouldn't look at anything below 3, it's got way to many false positives
05:43.08``Erikum, I think the getopt() one actually lsts as 2
05:43.09brlcadeven most of the 3's
05:43.09``Eriker
05:43.10``Erik3
05:43.22brlcadthere are now about 800 4's left
05:43.35brlcadabout 600 are quellable
05:43.46brlcadthe rest are false positives
05:43.59brlcadwith no reasonable way to shut them up
05:44.00``ErikI'd imagine that 99% of them are "well handled" to begin with... the kinda thing a new coder could be thrown at
05:44.21brlcadthat's where I think coverity will do a better job
05:44.47brlcadyeah, easily
05:45.00``Erikhow's that coming along? those dudes were trying to get something fixed to cope with our weirdness, iirc?
05:45.03brlcadone of a dozen tasks like that
05:45.31``ErikI want good libbu and libbn documentation :(
05:45.32brlcadyeah, they're just "busy" last I pinged them
05:45.40brlcadbu, bn, and rt
05:45.53``Erikwhen I was mucking with vls for clone, I was unhappy at how often I had to go look at code
05:45.58brlcadpkg and wdb for good measure
05:46.22``Erikand completion felt weak, thus the macros
05:46.33brlcadcompletion?
05:47.00brlcadyou mean funcs missing?
05:47.10``Erikyeah, I expected strcmp type things
05:47.40brlcadthat's just a matter of refactoring -- stuff hasn't really been ever added to any of the libs until/unless it's in use
05:47.49``Eriktotal encapsulation type stuff
05:47.52brlcadnobody ever needed/refactored with a strcmp need
05:49.36``ErikI wonder if vls's shoudl hold some kinda hash value for fast strcmp type needs :/
05:51.03``Erikeven though there are only 5 calls in the entire source tree, heh
05:51.45``Erikbut there are a fair number of strcmp() with one arg being a vls...
05:53.44brlcaddamn alicia keys is hot and a awesome artist
05:55.01brlcad45 strcmp's that have at least one vls lookup
05:55.02``Erikin other news; fire is hot, ice is cold, and windows sucks.
05:55.37``Erikbut they're not consistant in which arg is the vls
05:55.43``Erikeasily fixable, but a grind
05:56.33brlcadmany of those strcmps could go away too
05:56.58brlcad1236 calls to strcmp
05:57.35brlcadprobably a third should be strncmp or strlcmp
05:57.36``Erik<-- didn't look at 'em, just noticed when finding strcmp(bu_vls_addr(a),bu_vls_addr(b))
05:58.02``Erikheh, I thought you didn't like strlcmp :D too obsd specific or something
05:58.55``ErikI put in requests to get cygwin and msvc on bobs winderz machine
05:59.32``Erikif he can make it so his office mate *cough* can build without asking anyone for help, that'd be a good step
06:00.19brlcadstrlcmp is a bad example, that's not c89 iirc
06:00.26brlcadbut those kinds of functions
06:00.33``Erikno, not c90, not c99... obsd
06:00.35brlcadto check length at same time
06:00.47``Erikstrncmp() is the best portable afaik
06:00.54brlcadyeah, that one is c89
06:01.43``Erikmy obsd builds said to use strlcmp() instead, that's the only place I've seen that func come up
06:04.36brlcadyeah, strncmp is a pain to remember that it's length and not size, though less important for cmp
06:04.53brlcadmore important for cpy, strncpy vs strlcpy
06:05.08``Erikheh
06:06.47brlcadcept it allocates, can't use buffers
06:07.05``Erikmost uses of strcpy() follow a malloc
06:07.46brlcadeh
06:08.16``Eriksorry, they do
06:08.34brlcadI don't believe that, at least it's just as likely that someone copies into a char[] than that they have an alloc'd char*
06:08.43``Erikgo ahead, script up something to grind on sf to look for that pattern
06:08.48``Erikit's.... common
06:08.52brlcadyou're the one making the claim
06:08.57``Erikheh
06:09.06brlcadi'm not gonna waste my time doing that :)
06:09.11``ErikI'm also the one who's excessively lazy ;)
06:10.02brlcadbesides it doesn't matter -- if people only ever made dups of a string then str[nl]cpy wouldn't have been made and we'd only have strdup :P
06:10.17``Erikin the code I've laid hands on, I believe that most uses of str*cpy() are into freshly allocated memory (often malloc'd, sometimes stack alloc)
06:10.38``Erikstrcpy predates strdup by quite a bit, though
06:11.07brlcadhaving gone through nearly 500 instances in brl-cad's code already, it's a fairly even split of buffers and mallocs
06:11.33brlcadentirely unscientific counting of course
06:11.51``Erikthe gnarled hands of an emacs use?
06:11.53``Erikuser?
06:12.25brlcadjust recollections of the edits since I've been checking other things while I cleanup (like bombing, !!!!'s, allocs, etc)
06:13.05``ErikI wonder if user message format should be addressed in hacking
06:13.15brlcadthe most annoying is the f'd up inconsistent indentation style on some of the dirs
06:13.16``Erikconsistant message format
06:14.04brlcadthink I need to add a style var to the emacs local var footer so that braces aren't jacked on indent
06:14.24``Erik:)
06:14.40brlcadvim has the same issue, just a matter of setting the style
06:14.57``Erikprobably handled in my overweight .vimrc
06:15.00brlcadI can set it for my emacs, but then that doesn't solve the problem
06:16.19brlcadmoss's code is one of the worst offenders
06:16.27``Erikheh
06:16.41brlcadhis code often smells like s2
06:16.47``Erikhum, splain it to me, lucy
06:16.53``Erikrt asks for a ray
06:16.57``Eriklibrt shoots it
06:16.58brlcad(not surprising since that's what he worked on)
06:17.07``Erikliboptical figures out what to do with a hit
06:17.20``Erikno? where are the actual hand-offs in all that?
06:17.30brlcadthat's about right
06:17.52``Eriksuppose I wanted to write a direct hit lighting model
06:17.55brlcadthen liboptical sets the value, the rt sends to libfb and/or whatever output channel via the application struct
06:17.58``Erik-l99
06:18.10``Erikhow do I stub it in?
06:18.14brlcaddata passing is done through the resource and application structures
06:18.18brlcadmostly the app structure
06:18.21``Erikthe photon mapping stuff seems horribly wedged
06:18.42brlcadlighting models are handled in rt
06:18.47brlcadit is horribly wedged
06:18.53brlcadjustin's not a great example
06:19.01``ErikI saw three big siwtches for lighting model in rt/ I think
06:19.03brlcader, his code
06:19.17brlcadyeah, they're about it
06:19.34``Erikso there's no map table or anything? it's just hard coded in?
06:20.22``ErikI should probably look at the uhhhh normal coloring
06:21.01``Erikseemed there was no clear contract between rt and liboptical...
06:21.17``Erik<-- kinda wants to write a 'toon' shader :)
06:21.24brlcadthat's what the view files do -- handoffs between whatever optic model you're using
06:22.08``Erikum, are the shadow rays thrown in rt/view.c ?
06:23.02brlcadshadow rays are specific to a phong-type shader, phong actually shoots them
06:23.20brlcad(i.e. in liboptical)
06:24.18brlcadhence the variety of rt_shootray calls in liboptical
06:24.54``Erikhm
06:25.20``Erikdon't be too terribly surprised if you see a new lighting model in the semi-near future :)
06:25.37``Erikit seems like one of those things with a good thinking/grunt ratio
06:26.16brlcadfun stuff
06:26.19``ErikI think I got most of the grunt in clone out of the way, but the thinking involves some major user insight :/
06:26.50``Erikclassic mirror works only on cardinal axis... I want it to work on arbitrary vectors...
06:26.51``Eriketc
06:27.09brlcadalas, I haven't coded up a new/clean lighting model yet, so no path of lookups like there are for new shaders and prims
06:27.19brlcadbut there pretty straightforward
06:27.32``Erikum
06:27.34``Erikspeaking of prims
06:27.39brlcadthere are a couple really simple ones that do things like visualize the material thickness per ray
06:27.40``Erikg-xxx.c ... should be fixed
06:28.06``Erikthe normal model looks like a good place to dig in to me
06:28.17``Eriksince I just want first hit shading
06:28.59``ErikI dunno if I said it, but we need a function to generate a ray set correlating to an arbitrary ae for both ortho and perspective
06:29.02brlcadrtedge probably could have been done as a lighting model
06:29.08``Erikso g_qa.c can have non-cardinal runs
06:29.14brlcadheh
06:29.20brlcadyeah, I've been saying that for years too
06:29.30brlcadjust haven't gotten to that refactoring
06:29.35``Erikyeah, heh
06:29.41brlcadits' just pushing a chunk of code from worker into librt
06:29.46brlcad"just"
06:29.48``ErikI keep saying "yup, we need it, uh, maybe after XXX"
06:30.14``Erikmany of the rt's duplicate functionality in  not quite the same manners :(
06:30.19``Erikand I don't like that
06:30.57``Erikheh, rt should boil down to if(strncmp(*argv, "...
06:30.58``ErikO:-)
06:31.01``Erikimho
06:31.25brlcadyeah, and much of it is like that .. just not enough
06:31.49brlcadthe entire "rt backend" -- which cake actually made more obvious -- belongs in a lib
06:31.56``Erikoh, uh, image conversion, I'm tempted to grab libconvert and shove it in src/other/ and redo the entire pix conversion suite to be two func calls
06:32.21``Erikhey, I was given a cd and told to make it automake
06:32.26``ErikI had no clue what I was lookin' at :D
06:33.03brlcadnot saying it's right or wrong, just autoobfuscated :)
06:33.32``Erikcake still gives me the willies
06:34.04``Erikif I'd have known any utility cake providd above and beyond, I would've commented it in the am
06:35.11``Erik<-- got a few dirty looks when he first started cuz he kept referring to the "hit by a bus" situation as a need to document properly...
06:35.45``Erikguess it hit too close to home for a few folk :/
06:36.43brlcadno time to make things simple for the noobs :)
06:36.51brlcadthat's valuable coding time
06:37.03``Erikheh
06:37.20``Erikshould I point out the tragic flaw there? :D
06:37.48brlcadnope
06:39.01``Eriky'know
06:39.14brlcadyup
06:39.19``Erikmuch of libbu's functionality is found in glib
06:39.34``Erikhow heretical would it be to ponder that?
06:39.41brlcadsure is, the nature of a basic library
06:39.51brlcadalso much of it is in the stl too
06:40.05``Erikstl is for c++ weenies, not real coders
06:40.13brlcadas well as the boost libs, glib, and a dozen others ;)
06:40.16``Eriklast I heard, stl wasn't very... standard...
06:40.24brlcadthat's old news
06:40.35``Erikthe msvc users were hand deleting their own stl and importing sgi's
06:40.45brlcadit's pretty solid now
06:41.01brlcadanythings past msvc 6
06:41.10brlcadmsvc 6 and before sucked ass
06:41.11``Erikmsvc6 is still used
06:41.15``Erikheh
06:41.19``ErikI have a cd with msvc1
06:41.22brlcadexceptionally rare
06:41.26brlcadthat's ancient bustage
06:41.30``Erikup against the cd with borland 4.51
06:41.41``Erikwanna trip into suckage? I can loan 'em... :D
06:41.54brlcadi have vc6 somewhere
06:41.56brlcadit's not worth it
06:42.05brlcadit was outright broken and incompliant in many ways
06:42.21``ErikI used msvc5 and 6, it convinced me to rely on cygwin/mingw32
06:42.36brlcadcan take care of the issues with some things (C code isn't too horrible, C++ is horrible, though)
06:42.48``Erikheh
06:42.51brlcad7 and 8 were vast improvements
06:43.01``Erikat the time, msvc supported c++ a whole lot better than gcc
06:43.09``Erikuh, egcs, for the cool kids
06:43.46brlcadyeah, caring about msvc6 is like caring about gcc1/egcs portability
06:43.54brlcadyou just don't do it
06:44.17brlcadunless you have somebody funding that waste of time
06:45.00``Erik:/ I was a big c++ proponent for a while, then I got heavy into leenewx and realized C could do all that stuff without much work... then many years later, I got into smalltalk,and then I "got" oo (I think)... and c++ just ain't there... objc is a lot closer
06:46.21brlcadsmalltalk is one of my favorite languages
06:46.26``Erikamusingly enough, ruby is probably my favorite "oo" language, and I've run into several situations where ruby just doesn't hold up so I switch to thscheme or lithp inthtead
06:46.29brlcadfavorite impractical languages
06:46.58``Erikthe crypt game in squeak... w00t :D
06:47.40brlcadc++ best and worst feature is that it doesn't really confine you to any paradigm and actually lets you implement three or four fundamentally different styles
06:48.02``Erik'cept, uh, it doens't do a couple that it claims to
06:48.15``Erikthe biggest feature of oo, imho, is multi-dispatch
06:48.23brlcadyou can seriously abuse the template layer and get lispness, you can go pure OO, you can go run-time ala objc, functional, etc
06:48.29``Erikand alan kay has said the same... he has harsh things to say about c++
06:48.57``ErikI loaned out the uh, patterns book
06:49.00brlcadthat just means the power is in the hands of the coder to know what to do and what NOT to do
06:49.16``Erikthe notion of a design pattern, to me, is an indication of a failure in the language to do its duty
06:49.53brlcadeh, you have design patterns in just about every language
06:49.57``ErikI have a set of slides somewhere, um, design patterns for ml
06:50.00brlcadit's just a .. pattern of use
06:50.14``Erikand MOST of the c++ listed ones disappear, because "the language just handles that"
06:51.21brlcadyeah.. ml's a great practical language :P
06:51.30brlcada clear success :)
06:51.32``Erikheh
06:51.42``Erikit's a good language
06:51.46``Erikit just has no good apps
06:51.49brlcadheh
06:51.53brlcadthat's not all it's missing :)
06:52.25``Erik<-- thtill a lithp weenie, tho won't argue
06:52.28brlcadotherwise it'd have a significant devout following like the python/ruby/scheme/etc camps
06:52.38brlcadit's a great academic language for teaching languages
06:52.45``ErikI think both breeds have a serious following
06:52.58``Erikand scheme is kinda the lithp for schools...
06:53.10``Erikthe pathcal of lithpth, even
06:53.36``Erikstill my favorite lisp, but I'm trying to learn common lisp...
06:53.39``Erikand emacs
06:53.48``Erikthey tell me that's what the grown-ups use
06:54.05brlcadevery language has its strengths, weaknesses, and applicability for various purposes
06:54.16``Erikindeed
06:54.23brlcadone of C++'s best strengths and biggest weaknesses is its flexibility
06:54.27``Erikonly those fluent in a wide variety have anything to say
06:54.49brlcaddepends what I'm doing
06:55.02brlcad(for me)
06:55.10``Erikthough I have had on and off urges to use c++ over the last decade or so :/
06:55.28``Erik"that'd fit well into c++'s hobbled notion of oo"
06:55.30``Erikheh
06:55.45``Erikbut at that point, ruby is probably 'nuff
06:55.48brlcadfor big architecting, c++ wins for me, good balance of power, performance, and flexibility
06:55.53brlcad(over objc)
06:56.04brlcadfor dynamic interactive apps, objc usually wins
06:56.25brlcadto a point, gets nasty as they get bigger
06:56.28``Eriksee, I'd rather start with an obscenely high level language, do bottom up in it, or the skeery bi-directional deisgn of lisp users
06:56.41``Erikand as the language fails, start re-doing bits in a lower level language
06:57.07``Erikif I *NEED* to shave that .02% off, switch to C
06:57.51brlcadall of the functional languages fail for me from purely practical standpoints -- admittedly self-defeating reasons -- not useful to use for an app core simply because there aren't many coders for that language and it's a polarizing political/academic debate on the language's utility
06:58.18``Erikthat approach has failed me bigtime, though. I had a top down shooter game that developed a hitch every half second due to naive stop&copy gc :/
06:58.37brlcadew
06:58.56``Erikshould hacked a generational into it
06:59.03``Erikor at least treadmill
06:59.38``Erik(amusingly enough... I argued gc's and learned a fair bit from salzman... who went to cmu...)
07:01.08``Erikhrmph
07:01.21``ErikI wonder where my big orange and blue "basic for the commodore 64" book went
07:01.31``Erikit had a chapter on garbage collection, but I ignored it...
07:01.52``ErikI mean, 64,000 bytes? how can you run out of that??? ... (until I tried to do voxels on the machine)
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07:06.22``Erik*grouse*
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07:08.16``Erikthis sucks.
07:20.20``Eriknhttp://www.xkcd.com/
07:22.10``Erikhttp://www.irregularwebcomic.net/
07:30.21IriX64i should take slight to that :)
07:30.58IriX64yea, got cygwin running on vista64.
07:32.53IriX64singular works, means i can compile brlcad wee
08:04.44IriX64configure pegs the user cpu meter but kernal time is approx 60 % :)
08:06.50tarzeaubrlcad: strange and with -O0 too?
08:07.02tarzeaubrlcad: anyways, if you can't reproduce it... i can build debian packages now :)
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09:12.55*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now
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09:43.13brlcadtarzeau: nope, working fine .. not sure how changing the optimization level is supposed to break the build, works fine here
09:43.25brlcadtarzeau: if you have a build log, be interesting to see the error
09:43.35brlcadotherwise, sounds like you have something working on your end
10:08.39tarzeaubrlcad: ok thanks
10:09.50MinuteElectronbrlcad: busy?
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12:04.54starseekerAh hah - now the rt06 download works.
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14:42.51Z80-Boybrlcad: hi
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16:15.44brlcadMinuteElectron: quite
16:15.49MinuteElectronok
16:15.58MinuteElectronI won't bother you then, my query is non-essential.
16:16.31MinuteElectronWell, that really depends on your viewpoint - but I'd rather not disturb you and it is nothing integral.
16:16.33brlcadi'll ping you later when I can chat better
16:16.37MinuteElectronok, sure
16:16.59brlcadtweaked the header some more for the download image
16:17.17MinuteElectronI saw ;) - looking better.
16:17.27brlcadyeh, still not great, but better
16:17.35MinuteElectronTrue
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22:33.14starseekerCool - they FINALLY collect the ebuild messages for multiple ebuilds at the end of the whole install
22:33.32``Erikhuh, tclb2
22:34.54MinuteElectronbrlcad: That thing I was talking about earlier was because I got a bus error from PHP and the guys in ##php said that it was something to do with the binaries. Probably the completely wrong diagnosis but I was worried it might be important. So, yeah. I am going to go to bed now - speak soon I suppose.
22:39.26starseekerThis direct raytracing of NURBs looks interesting - I'm curious though, how would such behavior interact in librt with the other types of analysis BRL-CAD is used for?  Does the ARL have an internal database of previous analyses it could use to compare the results of the old methods and a NURBS based intersection simulation?
22:45.08starseekerHmm, hang on - gotta restart to make sure I didn't just nuke my sound drivers...
22:54.59``Erikheh
23:04.54*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-18-244.hr.hr.cox.net)
23:05.04starseekerAh, there we go :-)
23:06.07``Erikheh
23:07.01``Erikstarseeker, we have a good amount of geometry that was modelled in tnurbs using stuff like pro-engineer that was tesselated to convert to our format... we can't share those files, but we can test for ya if you do nurbs work
23:07.15``Erikright now
23:07.22starseekerhehe :-)
23:07.49starseekerI'm not ready yet to do that level of work - got some homework to do first
23:07.54``Erikthe geometry isn't classified secret or anything, but it's not releasable due to contract constraints
23:08.00starseekerRight
23:08.41``Erikfolk like general dynamics and raytheon dont' embrace the same notions :)
23:08.55starseekerPity ;-)
23:13.36starseeker``Erik:  From the "public" standpoint, I suppose it would probably be more interesting anyway to model thinks like WWII weapons
23:13.59starseekerAlthough I doubt enough detailed info survives on most of that to build a model anymore
23:14.07``Erikum
23:14.19``Erikit does
23:14.24starseekerReally??
23:14.28``Erikthe gear still exists, some in private hands
23:14.57starseekerOh, sure - but that would be quite a project.  The blueprints was what I was thinking about...
23:15.02``Erikwheel your arse out to APG with a caliper and tape measure, got a field full of ww1 and ww2 tanks just sitting there for epeople to gawk at
23:15.10``ErikI'm sure blueprints exist, but might not be public
23:15.19starseekerpoint
23:18.06``Erikum
23:18.11``Erikbuildings are public record
23:18.45``Erikit was like $20 for a reproduction of a residence like 15 years ago
23:18.56starseekerHmm.
23:35.21starseekererrrgh.  The design documents for the superconducting super collider are online, but they are some sort of funky postscript
23:48.34starseekerHumph.  Looks like you can get them but you have to wade through huge bureaucracy to do it.  Figures.  Same thing with the Saturn V goodies.
23:56.41``Erikhum, ps is a language intended to spew 2d stuff
23:57.01``Erikum, we might be able to snarf that up into sketch objects or something
23:57.21starseekerhttp://www.hep.net/ssc/new/repository.html
23:57.43starseekerGhostscript can't do much with them out of the box
23:58.08starseekerThey've got copyright Apple in there so it might be a capture of some code sent to an Apple printer...
23:58.50starseekerI've dealt with some postscript code intended for printers, and it ain't pretty...
23:59.06``Erikum
23:59.25``ErikNeXT used ps as the primary display language, iirc, and jobs may've carried those properties when he went back to apple
23:59.32``Erikmight be display related, not printer related
23:59.33``Erik:)
23:59.39starseekerAh :-)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071030

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071030

00:00.03starseekerThis might be interesting, but I'm not sure what they mean by "code":  http://www.hep.net/ssc/new/codes.html
00:00.20starseekerProbably software
00:01.51starseekerHmm - wonder if Brookhaven ever posted it anywhere...
00:03.07starseekerNot that there'd be too much point in modeling an non-existent collider in a CAD system anyway - the Tevatron might be fun but so far I can't scare up the blueprints from their website
00:09.47starseekerHumph.  Web page is at BNL, but not updated since 1995 apparently.
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00:37.02IriX64navigate by stars man :)
00:38.41starseekerThat would probably work better ;-)
00:38.53IriX64for certain :)
00:39.38IriX64might have to pay for it
00:39.54starseekerUp front, possibly.
00:41.20IriX64probable
00:42.37starseekerPlus, in some ways the Apollo achievements are to our civilization what the Pyramids were to ancient Egypt - human achievement on a grand scale
00:43.31starseekerThe details of how that was done (technically speaking) seem worth preserving
00:44.08IriX64there are many places to find such info, try nasa jet propulsion labs
00:44.35starseekerOh, I know it can be found - this guy has some of it:  http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm
00:44.52IriX64ok
00:45.03starseekerUnfortunately it sounds like the only practical way to do it is to wade into the physical archives themselves and start scanning
00:45.17starseekerand even then, I don't know how much of it would be approved for public release.
00:45.22IriX64what are you trying to acomplish
00:45.46starseekerWell, the idea would be to fully document the technical details of the Apollo system
00:46.13starseekerIn other words, to collect on a website all the information future generations would need in order to build their own ;-)
00:46.48IriX64one would hope they would be capable of building something better :)
00:47.44starseekerOh, sure.  But it's sort of like how we like figuring out how they built the pyramids - considering we can't figure that out real well and it's just a bunch of rocks piled real high, I'd think putting a man on the moon would be a little bit more difficult in retrospect ;-)
00:49.09starseekerIt's probably just my own odd curiosities
00:49.13IriX64depends on whose point of view you take, to those building the pyramids it probably was quite difficult :)
00:49.44starseekerAgreed :-).  But I'd rather try that from scratch with no technological base than try putting someone on the moon.
00:50.46IriX64true, all knowledge is usefull, so you want to document it true?
00:51.17starseekerRight :-).  I also have the same notions about computers - how do you go from a bunch of inert metal to a modern computer?
00:51.48IriX64quite the projects, good luck :)
00:51.52starseekerhehe
00:52.01starseekerIt's more just notions I have than anything
00:52.14IriX64notions are good
00:52.17starseekerThe scale is extremely large, and I doubt I will ever have the time to do it
00:52.36IriX64engage helpfull people in it
00:52.38starseekerMaybe if I'm blessed with good health and prosperity in retirement
00:52.50IriX64not that i'm volunteering :)
00:52.54starseekerThat would involve finding people as nutty as I am ;-)
00:53.07IriX64true :)
00:54.03starseekerSlightly more possible is using Forth to bootstrap a Lisp environment completely by hand :-).  I may try that someday
00:56.49starseekerand bemusedly notes he'd better get to work on household chores...
00:56.59IriX64:)
01:11.44IriX647.10.4 tells me i have no X and no GL, 7.8.4 says i have both !?!?!?
01:13.11louipcimagine spending your decades researching so you can build a robot that will do all your chores for you so you can spend time doing other things only to realise you've wasted all your years essentially doing chores (via the robot)
01:27.05louipcI'd like to know how the heck we were able to make more precise and accurate machinery from less precise/accurate machinery
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03:21.05IriX64why won't encarta95 install on vista64 ;)
03:26.52IriX64I can safely say "I can't support you anymore" to all those people who have my old 8 and 16 bit software:
03:28.25IriX64)
03:33.45IriX64blah... watcom 10.6a installed, now i have to convert all that 8 and 16 bit schtuff to 32 bit :(
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07:13.34brlcadminute-ssh: I saw the bus error, what were you doing that caused it?  is it reproducible and accessible from the web server or was it something you were running on the command line?
07:15.42brlcadstarseeker: the intent wouldn't be to replace implicit evaluation with nurbs evals (though you could) -- there are plenty of comparisons that we can/would do to make sure that it's working, but it's already pretty well understood that it'd be slower (nurbs evaluation is naturally about an order slower)
07:19.55brlcadthose BNL codes don't seem particularly interesting to me other than noting the four written by Reshetov probably long before he got into ray tracing
08:00.38brlcadahh, intaval
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09:33.13CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (14 files in 3 dirs): initial checkin of TNO's/IABG's INTAVAL to BRL-CAD converter
09:39.42brlcadhello d_rossberg
09:40.07d_rossberghi brlcad
09:41.05brlcadglad to see the converter in, looks good at a glance
09:41.53brlcadwas that developed by multiple people?
09:41.59d_rossbergi hope so, i could not test the Linux build (autogen is missing some Makefile.in)
09:42.52brlcadautogen.sh is probably complaining because intaval wasn't added to configure.ac ;)
09:43.04d_rossbergyes, the base was developed by TNO, and i aded some new primitives (it should be complete now)
09:43.10brlcadah, you did add it
09:43.13brlcadhm
09:43.27brlcadanyone specific at tno?
09:43.40brlcador several folks?
09:43.45d_rossbergautogen was complaining about misc/debian
09:43.45brlcadjust curious
09:44.24brlcadah, have you done a update -dP in a while?
09:44.50brlcadhave to run that from time to time to pick up new dirs that are added
09:45.05d_rossbergbecause of TNO: i'm not shure, but i think Wim has something to do with it
09:45.29brlcadwould have expected wim :)
09:45.39brlcadhaven't interacted with them in a while
09:46.16d_rossbergupdate dP: on Windows always but not on Linux :-{
09:47.00d_rossbergTNO is very interested in interacting with the BRL-CAD people
09:52.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: intaval/Makefile
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10:05.04brlcadseems to be going ok so far, have to fix an include path issue (our problem in configure.ac)
10:06.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: search the opennurbs dir for header files, it's required when compiling c++ sources that use rtgeom.h (which uses brep.h, which requires opennurbs.h)
10:07.36d_rossbergwith update -dP automake runs much better ...
10:13.09brlcadyou'll probably want that last commit too, include path addition
10:13.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am: ah, blasted automake (or my assumptions of it). just include the opennurbs cppflags here since c++ files are still in the minority.
10:13.36brlcadjust built fine for me here and runs (mac os x)
10:14.49brlcadwhat do "dra" and "tgf" stand for?
10:16.43CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't make up var names, just comment it out for now. as more C++ is integrated, it can be made default
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10:21.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: new tgf-g INTAVAL importer
10:22.14brlcadd_rossberg: if you have names of specific people to credit in the news file, please let me know -- i.e. others besides you and Wim
10:22.36brlcadhave fun with the canteening .. a bit early here for that :)
10:25.56CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: add PML to TNO's name. would preferably reference the developers directly but don't know yet if there were others coding besides Wim B. and Daniel R. working on it
10:26.51brlcadd_rossberg: and if you missed the question.. do you know what do "dra" and "tgf" stand for?
11:24.51d_rossbergDRA: Defence Research Agency (established by UK MoD)
11:26.02d_rossbergTGF: Target Geometry File (it is how they are calling it)
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14:04.11``Erikum, is that related to tank-kill?
14:06.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/readme.txt: annotate what DRA and TGF stand for
14:07.24brlcadd_rossberg: thx
14:08.29brlcadundoubtedly "related" .. could even be the same format which would mean we now have three converters for the same format that all do something radically different ..
14:08.56brlcadfrom the look of what daniel added though, the format is either considerably different or it's a much better importer
14:09.38brlcadfrom what I have gathered, intaval is the uk's version of covart, developed by lockheed martin
14:09.48``Erikif that's the case, someone should do some test runs and see if the old ones can be links to the new one... uh, I don't volunteer :D
14:09.58brlcadwhereas tankill is the uk's version of muves
14:10.22d_rossbergbrlcad: same to you
14:10.27``Erikif I weren't still hurting from the weekend, I'd be seriously breaking the repo right now, but I don't wanna deal with being on the hook to fix it :)
14:10.28brlcadformer version at least
14:10.41Z80-Boy``Erik: what did you do on the weekend?
14:10.56``Erikimbibed. significantly.
14:11.29``Erik:D
14:11.55``Erikand got to be the "tool" in an argument with an old friend, and too many damn video games
14:13.25``Erikand negotiated a deal to go back to online dj'ing, I think
14:14.14``Erikthis c++ fqa is hilarious, yet so true
14:14.30``Erikhttp://yosefk.com/c++fqa/
15:05.36d_rossbergbrlcad: what do you recommend, if building without opennurbs should cpp sources not include the opennurbs headers or should OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS always be set
15:17.15brlcadd_rossberg: did you see my commit earlier today?
15:17.31brlcadthat's what they were for
15:19.13brlcadit should probably always be set since at least at the moment it's required due to brep.h, but there's also presently only three instances of C++ application code in the entire repository .. so it was just as easy to add the OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS to the place where it was needed (to intaval's Makefile..am)
15:20.34d_rossbergbrlcad: i saw your comment, but the converter won't compile
15:20.35brlcadonce nurbs/brep support is "complete", opennurbs will be required so I'd more soon always add it than conditionally on opennurbs being built
15:20.57brlcadd_rossberg: you sure about that?  .. are you up to date?
15:21.12brlcad06:13 < CIA-27> BRL-CAD: brlcad * brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am: ah, blasted automake (or my assumptions of it). just include the opennurbs cppflags here since c++ files are still in the minority.
15:21.48brlcadI built and ran successfully on mac os x already after that fix
15:22.37d_rossbergi'm afraid OPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS won't help if they are empty
15:22.46brlcadooooh
15:22.49brlcadyou turn it off
15:23.11brlcadyeah, that's nfg then :)
15:23.22d_rossbergon the other side, there is a define WITH_OPENNURBS which could be used in brep.h
15:23.24brlcadOPENNURBS_CPPFLAGS should always be set
15:23.58brlcadthough if someone wanted a system opennurbs, the flags would be different
15:24.50brlcadWITH_OPENNURBS is an automake conditional, not a define .. you'd have to add a define for it
15:26.37brlcadand that's the one that will eventually go away when the implementation is complete so that nurbs/brep support is consistently available in the core
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15:28.30CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/configure.ac: always set the path to the openNURBS headers (C++)
15:30.39brlcadyeah, that'll work for the time being, until there's a --with flag for pointing to a system-installed opennurbs or until we make too many mods that it has to build custom
15:37.24CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: apparently not yet annotated, so make a note of the stupid unable to find brl-cad message when rt encounters a shader it doesn't recognize. the dynamic shader loading code has some bad juju in it.
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19:11.33ewilhelmhi all
19:12.00ewilhelmI'm getting errors trying to build cvs from source on Debian Etch (gcc 4.1 and/or 3.4)
19:12.20ewilhelmlibtool: link: cannot find the library `../../../src/libwdb/libwdb.la
19:14.37ewilhelmis this an issue with CVS today or something on my end?
19:17.24ewilhelmit appears to be something of a failed make dependency detection
19:22.50ewilhelmhmm, manually stepping through the failing directories leads me to a libtcl-8.5 error
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19:28.24ewilhelmugh, I just did cd tcl and tk and ran make install and then popd'd back through the stack of failing dirs and `make` was fine
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19:50.03illethalHello..
19:53.46ewilhelmhi
19:54.15illethalI havn't used BRL-CAD yet. I have a few questions maybe someone can answer?
19:55.08ewilhelmmaybe -- at the moment I'm trying to figure out why cvs won't build from gcc-4.1
19:55.20ewilhelmso, I might not be the best source of info :-D
19:55.27illethalHaha.
19:55.31illethalI get ya, Linux.
19:56.02ewilhelmseems to be mostly a make problem
19:56.21illethalWhat distro are you on?
19:56.37ewilhelmDebian Etch
19:56.48illethalAh k.
19:57.08ewilhelmseems to be working, but a ridiculous amount of manual cd && make stuff
19:58.03illethalThat's what makes Linux fun.
19:58.19ewilhelmnah, aptitude is what makes it fun
19:58.23illethalLmao
19:58.34illethalYeah, synaptic is by far my favorite package manager I've used.
19:58.57illethalDoes BRL-CAD have a GUI?
19:59.04ewilhelmyep
19:59.08illethalOr do you have to like make all the geo with math
19:59.13illethalK awesome.
19:59.17ewilhelmthat too though
19:59.28illethalAhhh, I've never done that before.
19:59.40illethalI've been playing around with 3D on my own for a few years, but not CAD.
19:59.45ewilhelmlast I played with it, the command-line was much better at constructing geometry than the mouse
20:00.10ewilhelmits a "shell" (ala autocad's command-line) within the mged gui app
20:00.17illethalI probably won't be able to figure out how to use it, but it seems badass.
20:00.32ewilhelmso, it is interactive -- rather than a sort of batch CLI app
20:00.46illethalI see.
20:00.49ewilhelmyou might want to try it -- I haven't updated for a few years
20:00.58illethalSo you can also edit the object from the GUI, but you have to make it from the CLI?
20:01.25ewilhelmyou can use the mouse, it just might be limited in expressiveness in some areas
20:01.36illethalAh.
20:03.21illethalWill it work on Vista 64bits you think?
20:03.36illethalNot very many programs do lol
20:03.51ewilhelmit has a Tk gui, so maybe
20:04.07ewilhelmiirc, there are binaries on the sourceforge page
20:04.32illethalHmm, no installer?
20:04.46illethalI think I'm too noob to use BRL-CAD, =|
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20:13.50brlcadhowdy ewilhelm
20:14.53brlcaddid you do a parallel -j build?  I've ran into issues with that several times in the past where a failure gets through and the build tries to continue, not stopping when it should
20:15.52brlcadother automake/libtool bugs on nfs filesystems too
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20:24.00ewilhelmbrlcad: yep -j 16
20:24.54dtidrow_work16?  yikes
20:25.02ewilhelmdistcc :-D
20:25.06ewilhelmis there a pastebot?
20:25.08dtidrow_workah
20:25.36dtidrow_workso you basically have a 'compile farm'?
20:26.11ewilhelmbrlcad: here's roughly what I ended-up doing
20:26.13ewilhelm<PROTECTED>
20:27.15ewilhelmthe tcl (and maybe tk) had to be installed or I would get libtcl8.5.so
20:27.23ewilhelm... errors
20:28.14ewilhelmthen the pushd was all just a matter of stepping through the src/libbu src/libbn src/librt src/libwdb
20:28.29ewilhelmplus a stop-off at libsysv on the way back
20:30.05ewilhelmthen I had to make install in src/other before src/ would work
20:30.18ewilhelmand make install src before $top would make
20:30.46ewilhelmit seems like it that last bit (and tcl) was more an LDFLAGS issue
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20:35.31ewilhelmbrlcad: anyhow, it all got built and mged works
20:35.51ewilhelmbut I can't "zoom all" on my converted stl -- shouldn't `reset` do that?
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20:50.40ewilhelmah -- 'draw all'
21:01.07brlcad~bzpaste
21:01.10brlcad~bzpastebin
21:01.11iboti guess bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel
21:01.26brlcadjust fyi future ref
21:01.32brlcador this
21:01.34brlcad~pastebin
21:01.34ibotrumour has it, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
21:01.38brlcadbut no bot
21:02.02ewilhelmis there a shaded view mode?
21:02.09brlcadalmost guaranteed, the parallel build is what caused the need for multiple passes to get past the build error
21:02.23ewilhelmi.e. without needing to raytrace
21:02.35brlcadthere is
21:02.38brlcadit sucks
21:02.51brlcadthat's some of the stuff we're working on, it gets to core representation issues
21:03.02brlcadpart of the brep/nurbs work, multiple representations
21:03.08ewilhelmnot opengl ?
21:03.16brlcadso we can go back and forth between explicit and implicit reps
21:04.10brlcadopengl is an explicit geometric representation, brl-cad historically has only dealt with implicit mathematical representations -- provides greater accuracy, compactness, efficiency, few other benefits
21:04.22brlcadbut going from implicit to explicit is very non-trivial
21:04.52brlcadso just getting "polygons" out of an implicit rep reliably and quickly is actually a pretty tricky feat
21:05.13ewilhelmyep
21:05.14brlcadand opengl *only* deals with explicit polygonal representation formats
21:05.22brlcader, s/polygonal//
21:05.32brlcadit does deal with a few explicit spline surface formats
21:05.37brlcadbut no implicit formats
21:06.12ewilhelmiirc, autocad maintains a dual list of objects<->polygons in the view pipeline
21:07.21brlcadewilhelm: iirc, going back to some talks over a year ago, you might be interested to know that I finally did get all of the STEP APs scanned and OCR'd :-)
21:07.46ewilhelmneat -- wasn't a year ago at this point though :-D
21:07.47brlcadautocad deals internally with explicit formats, spline surfaces
21:07.58brlcadit's dual-rep is explicit spline to explicit poly
21:08.04brlcadwhich is pretty trivial ;)
21:08.23ewilhelmisn't the CSG in autocad "implicit mathematical"?
21:08.44brlcadthe operations are performed on explicits
21:08.51brlcadbrb
21:18.35brlcadI'm in and out, but to your question -- yes CSG operations are implicit (by their very nature), but they're applying implicit operators to an explicit geometry representation
21:18.59brlcadthat's rather different from applying implicit operators to implicit geometry -- there is no evaluated form
21:19.59ewilhelmah, ok
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22:32.04minute-sshbrlcad: It was something I was running from the command line. And it is fully reproducable.
22:32.29minute-sshRight now I am having internet trouble, hence why I am using SSH IRC as opposed to home IRC. So I might not respond.
22:32.36brlcadok
22:32.56minute-sshbrlcad: Do you need any more info?
22:33.06brlcadyeah, what do you want me to do about it? :)
22:33.16brlcadsounds like a php bug :)
22:33.19minute-sshOh, ok.
22:33.36brlcadi can see if there's an update in ports
22:33.49brlcadi mean php crashing is definitely a php bug
22:33.52minute-sshJuding from the response of ##php they suggested it was a bug in your executable. Non-essential, I will file a PHP bu report.
22:33.53brlcaddo you know what causes it?
22:34.14brlcadthat sounds like their way saying "that php binary is buggy"
22:34.20brlcadwhich is a bug in php
22:34.29brlcadjust that it might be fixed in a newer version
22:34.48minute-sshI haven't tracked down the exact cause, but I have tracked it down to my custom MySQL class.
22:35.37brlcadyou could download/compile php and see if their latest sources still have the problem
22:36.35brlcadwe're on 5.2.1 at the moment, latest in ports seems to be 5.2.3
22:37.22brlcadI do really hate changing php unless there's a pressing need (you needing it would be a good enough reason, though)
22:38.03brlcadbecause it impacts the web install with apache and mod_php .. if the compilation flags aren't right, things can get wonky
22:45.35minute-sshok
22:45.35minute-sshdw
22:46.17minute-sshIt is non-essential.
22:52.39minute-sshI was doing it yesterday, but got sidetracked.
22:53.06minute-sshIt is late here now and I have to be getting on with something, so I will check it out more tomorrow.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071031

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071031

01:40.53*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
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02:13.38IriX64http://rafb.net/p/AKi6rt49.html  <---- whats this then
02:18.00ewilhelmIriX64: that sounds like the build error I was getting earlier
02:18.48ewilhelmsee  http://scratchcomputing.com/tmp/makebrl.txt
02:21.26IriX64thank you
02:34.41IriX64exec ping
02:34.46IriX64whoa
02:34.49IriX64:)
04:34.02IriX64what is the purpose of redefing tk functions to standard x functions in unixport.h?
04:38.35brlcadoh shoot .. didn't realize that they made intaval link against our libs too
04:38.53IriX64:)
04:39.02IriX64wtf is intaval ;)
04:39.11brlcadit's a new geometry importer
04:39.16IriX64ah
04:39.25brlcadjust added yesterday
04:39.35IriX64ok
04:40.52brlcadrelated to the UK Ministry of Defence, one of their VL codes, written by friends in Netherlands and Germany
04:41.05IriX64i see
04:49.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/Makefile.am:
04:49.36CIA-27BRL-CAD: ah crap. the converter uses libwdb which isn't/can't be compiled before
04:49.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: src/other -- one of the few ways where recursive make actually bites us in the
04:50.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: arse. need to move the converter to a directory that is traversed after
04:50.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: src/other and after src/lib*, maybe misc/intaval or contrib/intaval or
04:50.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: src/contrib/intaval etc. for now, just make the converter be compile-on-demand
04:50.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: (i.e. cd src/other/intaval && make tgf-g) only.
04:52.11IriX64i needed to get by that so i cp tgf-g.cpp tgf-g.exe and "touch it" and compile away merrily ;)
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04:59.10IriX64mc
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05:26.17IriX64_i'm relativly new to this, why is cvs at 7.11.0 and your topic says 7.10.4 is happening?
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05:35.35IriX64Ethel Barrymore says "you grow up the day you have a real bellylaugh at yourself" I' must say Iv'e grown up a lot this past month :)
06:26.40brlcadIriX64: releases are made off of the STABLE branch, not HEAD, which lags behind HEAD development by usually a couple months
06:28.07brlcadand regardless, 7.10.4 is posted, so the next release is automatically set to the next odd numbered revision (which is either 7.10.5 or 7.11.0 ... emphasis on the 7.10.*5* and 7.*11*.0 for the odd number)
06:54.41IriX64got it thanks
06:55.13Supaplexbut i can haz cheezeburger now?
07:21.53brlcadsure
07:38.43CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: remove old comment
08:08.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (5 files in 3 dirs): by popular demand, add the g2dxf and dxf2g converters to the windows release build system
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08:35.04CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/sig/ (Makefile.am coswin.c): quell malloc warning, use libbu allocator
08:39.45CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/tedit.c: quell warnings
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071101

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071101

00:40.24*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
00:42.00IriX64http://rafb.net/p/hng0Fb41.html <--- new kids on the block have a problem
01:05.57IriX64http://rafb.net/p/HmDN2c78.html  <--- found a critter in ltmain.sh
01:12.55``Erikheh, EBCDIC, that's funny
01:13.10IriX64not if you work for ibm :)
01:13.23``Erikerm
01:13.36``Erikand the last ibm that used that was what, the as400?
01:13.47IriX64mv370 :)
01:14.49IriX64doesn't solve *my problem tho, but what the heck
01:15.25``Erikor ebcdic->ascii... I don't remember anymore
01:15.29IriX64why not 8086
01:16.29IriX64the glory of unix=the iron doesn't matter :)
01:17.04``Erikum, it was mostly 8086 crap, but 286 stuff was permitted
01:17.11``Erikfor some reason, 386 was not
01:17.17``Erikand this was, like, '98 or '99 :(
01:17.23``Erik(my second run at college)
01:17.27IriX64was that around at that time
01:17.42IriX64ah it was
01:17.44``Erikpentium was around in like '95
01:18.10IriX64my memories like yours too far back to be accurate :)
01:18.24``ErikI sure enjoyed doing asm on r2k a lot more
01:18.31``Erikeven though it was just using 'spim'
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01:18.43IriX64don't know r2k or is that r2d2 :)
01:18.55``Erikr2000, early MIPS chip
01:19.00IriX64ah
01:19.05``Erikum, predecessor to what you may've seen in an sgi
01:19.20``Erikthe o2 bookend I have sports an r10k
01:19.29IriX64im only familiar with pc's and dec schtuff
01:19.40``Erikalphas were almost good
01:19.47IriX64still are
01:19.51``Erikif they woulda used the right endian, I coulda loved 'em :D
01:19.56IriX64heh
01:20.08``Erikthey also did very horrible things
01:20.09IriX64hate reversals do you
01:20.32IriX64?? prioris
01:20.37``Erikyeah
01:20.42``Erikshaped like a coffee table
01:20.48IriX64dont know that one
01:20.54``Erikcabinet for like 8 scsi drives, big honkin' backplane board
01:21.02IriX64ah
01:21.03``Erikthe cpu and memory boards popped into the backplane
01:21.12``ErikI had a dual p133 cpu card
01:21.20IriX64unibus machine or omnibus
01:21.31``Erikand like an 8 slot 30pin simm card
01:21.35``Erikum, eisa
01:21.41``Erikit was all eisa
01:21.45IriX64ah a dec pc attempt
01:21.48``Erikyes
01:21.50``Erik...
01:21.52``Erikp133's...
01:21.55``Eriksimm...
01:21.58IriX64i know
01:22.12``Erikcheaper than, say, an sbus equiped machine... but...
01:22.19IriX64never seen it the rainbow tho i played with
01:22.31``Erikamusingly enough, I couldn't get nt3.51 or nt4 to install on it... linux took it though
01:22.38``Erikthe alphas were a hell of a lot better
01:22.40IriX64heh
01:22.48``Erik27xsoemthingsomething...
01:23.03IriX64depends who you talk to :)
01:23.06``Erikdamn fast, both in crunch per clock and in straight clock at the time
01:23.23``Erikand I think the nt on alpha had... real smart shit.
01:23.41IriX64remember the alpha with nt
01:23.49IriX64nice enoufgh
01:23.50``ErikI'm under the impression (having never used it) that it had a machine code translator that cached the converted machine code
01:23.53IriX64enough
01:24.12``Erikso you could slap an i386 program on it, run it, it'd sit and spin for a minute the first time... then run just fine
01:24.19``Eriknext time  ya launched it, it just popped right up and worked
01:24.26IriX64i was happy i could do serial port stuff with it
01:24.57``Erikoh, yeah, ya got leenewx or fbsd, PIC chips, and a programmer?
01:25.16``Erikwhat's his name is making a new release of picprog and wants people to test the new serial timing code :D
01:25.38IriX64seriously? i'm a hobbiest :)
01:26.15``Erikthis is free software kinda targetting the hobbyist
01:26.35``Erikhe has a short lift of people he knew were interested (I maintain the fbsd port, so I was on it)
01:26.53``Erikbut I only have a couple 16f88's and haven't done anything honestly noteworthy with 'em
01:27.06``Erikother than making LED's blink in patterns
01:27.12IriX64don't have the tools man
01:27.20``Eriksoftware or hw?
01:27.24IriX64hw
01:27.26``Erikah
01:27.36``Erikthe programmer I got was like $15, and the chips were like 2.50 a pop
01:27.47``Erikthe serial cable was probably the most expensive part, I think it was $20 :(
01:28.02IriX64got enough to keep me busy but thanks
01:28.09``Erikbut I already had a breadboard and a huge box o' parts
01:28.51``Erikand a 5w cheap power supply I made from the transformer out of a cheap broken alarm clock, 4 diodes, 2 caps and a resistor :D
01:29.01IriX64heh
01:29.09``Erikoh, and a candle to drop wax on the assembly once I was happy with the output DC signal
01:29.13IriX64zeners are cheap
01:29.31``Erikyeah, btu I didn't have any
01:29.44IriX64:(
01:29.52``Erik<-- scratches his head and wonders how zeners would simplify a bridge
01:30.00IriX64heh
01:30.03IriX64wouldn't
01:30.17IriX64just stating that they're cheap :)
01:30.22``Erikthe kind I had were the cheapest, not even germaniums
01:30.34``Erikthe ones that you used to be able to get at radioshack in a package of like 100 for $2
01:30.41``Erikback when radioshack did that kinda thing
01:30.44IriX64sliconized mutational diodes were they
01:31.00``ErikI've have to look... the cheapest on the rac
01:31.03``Erikper unit
01:31.06IriX64heh
01:31.21``ErikI have way more ceramic caps than electrolytics, too
01:31.38IriX64teardrops too are cheap
01:31.41``Erikmy big dollar stuff is mostly the 74xx series ic's I think
01:32.02IriX64the hobbisyts friend standard ttl
01:32.12``Erikthought I have a few "weird" items, like a 10 bar LED, and a couple 8 piece LED's
01:32.22``Erik555's and 556's, some 741's I think
01:32.35IriX64stuff like that gets costly too
01:32.45``Erikthe LED's? or the ic's?
01:32.50IriX64leds
01:32.52``Erikthe ic's are ass cheap, common as hell
01:32.57IriX64true
01:33.02``Erikyeah, I think they were a few bucks each
01:33.03IriX64not 741's tho
01:33.20``Erikhum, I got a box with several 741's for a couple bucks
01:33.27IriX64555 are as common as dirt as far as timer chips go
01:33.29``Erikhave yet to find a good use for an opamp like that
01:34.17``ErikI want to buy an m68020 or something, some crud for memory, mebbe something to do video signals... see if I can make me a little unix machine
01:34.24``Erikand code up a unix workalike on it :D
01:34.27IriX64the memory data book as usefull as the ttl data book
01:34.39``ErikI think the 20 introduced the mmu
01:34.47IriX64i have faichild what do you use
01:34.53IriX64fairchild
01:35.00``Erikhuh?
01:35.03IriX64for reference
01:35.09IriX64books now
01:35.11``Erikum, these days? the intarweb
01:35.22IriX64i prefer paper in my hand
01:35.42``ErikI used to have, um, the little paperbacks with the grid pattern on the cover that you could get at radioshack
01:35.48``Erikbtu they're at my parents
01:35.57IriX64never used those
01:36.07``ErikI have a notebook with the pinouts for msot of those chips from a college class
01:36.15``Erikhand drawn notes from class
01:36.15IriX64ah
01:36.25``ErikI was introduced to the 74xx's in a class
01:36.42``Erikand the 555 and 556 were just that damn common, that I put those in there, too
01:36.51IriX64i was introduced to them in industry
01:37.04``Erikthe 741, I have a book from one of those ancient "101 projects in electronics" kids
01:37.04``Erikkits
01:37.14IriX64ah
01:37.17``Eriktoo bad those don't seem to exist anymore
01:37.37IriX64i never looked , really they stopped them
01:37.55``ErikI know the chemistry kits are gone, I haven't SEEN an electronics kit
01:38.06IriX64blargh
01:38.23IriX64kids used to eat those up
01:38.33``Erikchemistry kits were beaten down by politics, cuz, uh, some of those chemicals might possibly create something dangerous if mixed just right
01:39.03IriX64heh and leave it to a bright kid to "mix" them right :)
01:39.41``Erik<-- personally kinda thinks parents should be more involved and should be more education *shrug* :/
01:40.32``Erikand if'n ya dick with anything ya don't know, understand it may be a little dangerous and learn appropriate safety policies
01:40.33IriX64truth
01:40.50IriX64well its making again, bbiab
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02:35.38``Erikoh ho ho
02:35.41``Erikhow ironical
02:35.48``Erikhttp://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/31/2256206
03:03.15IriX64heheh they heard you
03:58.06``Erikstarting about 6 years ago.
05:37.49IriX64man there's a dnl without a preceding # in configure.in in tk/unix
05:43.31IriX64the ' in don't presents a problem
06:18.26IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/7.8.4doesvista64.png   :)
06:35.26IriX64nite all
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15:02.02CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: need all-am to be dependent upon built_sources else someone doing a make install without first running make will end up failing to generate the COUNT, DATE, HOST, USER, PATH files
15:02.22CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad 07STABLE * 10brlcad/include/conf/Makefile.am: merge from head, need built_sources for all-am
15:03.07``Erikit ist time to do the big honkin' join?
15:05.38brlcadnot yet
15:05.53brlcadnot until the remaining builds are posted
15:06.03brlcad(still need irix and solaris)
15:07.43brlcadthis will possibly be the last irix release :(
15:08.42``Erikheh
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18:46.52dtidrow_workbrlcad: yep, IRIX is a dying OS  :-\
18:47.12dtidrow_workthe company isn't doing much better, afaik
18:54.09PrezKennedypeople still use IRIX?
19:20.40*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
19:21.07IriX64http://rafb.net/p/I3oL3a29.html   <---- have i reported this already?
19:23.06minutePrezKennedy: HAHA
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19:34.19IriX64pssst, there's 9 dnl's in config.in in src/other/tk/unix.
19:35.54IriX64some in tcl too
19:37.38IriX64http://rafb.net/p/BEB5Wr15.html <---- rtsrv duplicates bu_bomb too
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19:42.29IriX64errr +o  :)
19:52.55``Erikum, ok?
19:53.07IriX64so eh :)
19:53.37``Erik'dnl' is m4 for a line comment (do not list or something)... autoconf will remove thos elines when the configure script is generated
19:53.59IriX64my build platform is kinda weird ``Erik so i'm not sure....
19:54.03``Erik<-- personally prefers shell comments as he looks through the generated configure script more often than he'd like
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20:21.46brlcadIriX64: it *intentionally* duplicates bu_bomb as a scope override -- there's some compiler flag amiss if it's complaining about it
20:22.25brlcadand the dnl's are normal, part of m4 syntax
20:22.36brlcadthere are dnl's throughout our own top-level configure.ac
20:24.36IriX64i'll check my flags then thanks
20:25.00brlcadcheck the gcc documentation
20:25.11IriX64way ahead of you :)
20:26.31IriX64found --allow-multiple-definition, will that do it
20:30.01brlcadmaybe
20:30.53brlcadmy gcc nor ld has that option, so can't be sure
20:31.11brlcadif it's a linker option, it'll need to be an LDFLAGS instead of a CFLAGS
20:34.15CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.1: clarify that the user must specify the size if the image is not 512x512
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21:30.04iMinute=auit
21:30.07iMinuteoops
21:30.09iMinutewrong channel
21:36.48brlcaddamn skippy!
21:37.42iMinutehmm?
21:37.45iMinuteoh
21:37.47iMinutestarfox
21:37.47brlcadnvr mind :)
21:37.49iMinutehehe
21:38.00iMinute:D
21:38.13brlcad:D
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21:51.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/pix-png.c: warn if the output PNG image dimensions are smaller than the input PIX image, related to support request from mallory
21:57.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
21:57.22CIA-27BRL-CAD: pix-png now warns the user if the PNG being created has image dimenions smaller
21:57.24CIA-27BRL-CAD: than the PIX file that was given as input. The tool compares the size of the
21:57.26CIA-27BRL-CAD: input and output images, and reports the difference if there is one; it also
21:57.28CIA-27BRL-CAD: suggest what flags the user may need to use if the input has recognizable image
21:57.30CIA-27BRL-CAD: dimensions. This feature was implemented in response to a support request from
21:57.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: Mallory where he was confused by the black PNG image produced (which happened to
22:01.39CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged isn't updating the graphics window with the new 8.5 tcl (sometimes)
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22:44.29brlcad95k for just under 4TB with support, without discounts
22:45.50IriX64brlcad=deep pockets?  :)
22:47.53brlcadheh, no
22:48.03IriX64:)
22:52.13starseekerThe unthinkable has happened - the STIX fonts have reached a Beta release
22:52.32starseekerhttp://www.stixfonts.org/
22:52.34brlcadmm.. $50k for a 12TB decked out Mac
22:52.52starseekerDrool...
22:53.15starseeker(not that BRL-CAD is likely to need the STIX fonts, I suppose...)
22:53.27brlcadstarseeker: hmm, interesting
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22:54.11starseekerThat's roughly the scientific equivalent of Duke Nukem Forever being released ;-)
22:54.12brlcadthat actually is pretty interesting
22:54.43brlcadnew modeler is going to ship with fonts, sounds like stix might be what we'd want to go with
22:54.46starseekerIf you download 'em, watch out for the zip file - it dumps everything into the same directory as the zip file itself is in
22:54.52starseekercool :-)
22:54.54brlcadpresuming freetype can read them
22:55.04starseekerone would hope :-)
22:55.22brlcadlooks like at least their "goal" is TTF's
22:55.40starseekerYes - if it doesn't do what you need it's probably a bug they want to hear about
22:56.17brlcadbah, they seriously need a "screenshots" page ...
22:56.38brlcadnot a glyphs page that requires me to install them
22:57.39starseekeragreed
22:58.36brlcadI have a sampling of decent free fonts that I was going to use, but a project dedicated to making good scientific fonts would be even better
22:59.33brlcadmm.. fun, 7.10.4 Mac install of BRL-CAD is nearly 500MB
22:59.36``Erikhum
22:59.39brlcadgranted, that's with debugging symbols
22:59.57``Erik"t2" is of the t1000 family?
23:00.19``Erikthis time, we dont' have to crush it, it's here to save us from the goopy one? O.o :D
23:01.11brlcadwe didn't have to crush it the first time .. someone and someone else just thought it'd be fun to set up and play with
23:01.26louipcwow my install is just 96M
23:01.40brlcadlouipc: is that stripped?
23:01.53louipcwell it doesn't have tcl...
23:01.53``Erikstripped, space optimized and 32 bit?
23:02.11louipcnot stripped but 32 bit yep
23:02.16``Eriktcl is a big space consumer, all those extra man pages, tz files, tcl files, ...
23:02.25brlcadoooh, good point, I was going to make these universal binaries...
23:02.29brlcadthat'll make them 2x
23:02.34``Erikum, libtool is fond of stripping on install
23:02.46brlcadit's not supposed to
23:02.50brlcadthere's a flag for stripping
23:02.51``Erikgo into like src/fb, type "make install" and see if it's getting the -s
23:03.02``ErikI've seen it 'just happen' before... unless I'm completely outta it :D
23:03.36``Erikthe t5220 would be better on infrastructure than the apple, I think...
23:03.40brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/quote.pdf  is kinda what I'm thinking of
23:05.13brlcadit would be better of course, just not sure about it for the price point given with that price diff there could even be <1hr on-site support
23:05.28``Erikoh yeah, they saddle up for that support
23:05.59brlcadi mean the apple could be configured for <1hr for less than the sun
23:06.09``Erikbut, um, is it to be a file server or a compute server?
23:06.17*** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
23:06.18brlcadthe sun is configured for same day iirc, woulda cost more for less
23:06.31``Erik<-- not keen on mixing the two, kinda likes the seperation of services
23:07.12brlcadit's neither and both, needs to be big enough to fit all the data and fast enough to not be annoying
23:08.01``Erikthat'll give us, what, ~3tb live at raid5?
23:08.06brlcadwhich is probably a few TB, really fast disks, not sucky cpus .. bus bandwidths, wide pipes
23:08.22``Erikor almost 2 at 0+1 ?
23:08.28brlcadyeah, about that much
23:08.44``Erikare they still windowed big endian chips?
23:08.47``Erikor didja look?
23:08.56brlcadyeah, that was something else I liked
23:09.08brlcadone of the few big end servers remaining
23:09.14``Erikwe'd be able to retire the e420 when it goes out of service
23:09.39brlcadthe new "super" threading servers, able to run 64 threads simultaneously without skipping a beat
23:09.52brlcadthat would be *really interesting to test out
23:10.23``Erik<-- likes suns cuz he did sysadmin at a place where downtime was measured in millions an hour :) the price was never an issue, so'z is not used to really judging that angle
23:10.42``Erikwe can always apply for a 60 day test ride
23:10.56``Erikheh
23:11.18brlcadthey also undoubtedly paid 7 figures for their infrastructure :P
23:11.38``Erikwhen I lived in a place where the entire mgmt chain cared about getting shit done instead of politics, we had so many $'s in sun, they'd loan us high end (like 4800, 6800) boxes for a year at a whack
23:12.01``Erikuhm, more than 7... :)
23:12.25brlcadmeant at least 7
23:13.03``Erikthe, uh, maintenance, staff, infrastructure, etc costs for the admin/web/it/softwaredev was in the rough neighborhood of a billion a year
23:13.37brlcadyeah, that's counting too much (for what is being compared)
23:13.40``Erikand it wasn't seen as "productive" from the other companies, so under constant attack to defend those $'s
23:13.44brlcadthe orgs are massively different in size too
23:13.45``Erikyeah, tha'ts the only number I know
23:14.07``ErikI showed up when I wanted, left when I wanted, more or less did what I wanted, and got paid a lot more than I do here :)
23:14.38brlcadfor any reasonably small dev team, I think it's reasonable to try to stay under 6 figures
23:14.46``Erikyeah
23:14.54brlcadso then .. uh,  why'd you leave? :P
23:15.18brlcadthose $$'s were too much apparently ;)
23:15.38``Erikwas a limited contract to perm position, and bullshit politics lost me on the pickup
23:16.15``Erika cohort who changed teams got the inside scoop from some people, the "you didn't hear this, but" word was that I was seen talking to the wrong people (the guys on my team who quit for google right after I was jobless)
23:17.17brlcadno strip on install
23:17.25``ErikI was in one of those pesky rogue groups that doesn't play buy the corporate rules and outshines everyone with success, and useless politicos really hate that :D
23:18.07brlcadsounds like how the cad team used to be
23:18.31``Erikhrm, should be less than a 4x size bump for just 64b/uni over 32/PF... must be the tickle
23:18.52``Erikthere were traces of that bubble when I got here :(
23:18.58brlcadi haven't made the uni yet, just going by estimates I have from other builds
23:19.22brlcader, and that should be about 2x .. not 4x
23:19.30brlcadi expect about a 1GB install
23:20.03``Erikhrm, uni should about be 2x... does... wait, you're on an i386 apple, not a g5?
23:20.13``Erikdoes g5 have variable width opcodes?
23:20.16brlcad2GB if I make all four platforms (32 ppc, 64 ppc, 32 x86, 64 x86)
23:20.44``Erikis there 64b x86 on apple? O.o :D
23:20.53brlcadoh, you got 4x off what it'd be stripped
23:21.13brlcadthe strip savings is more in tune with just how much symbolage there is
23:21.19``Erikunix (2x) * 64b (2x) is what I was thinking
23:21.33``Eriker
23:21.35``Erikuni
23:21.50``Erikheh, damn muscle memory :D I talk about unix way too much, apparently
23:22.12brlcadyeah, 10.4 has 64bit support and 10.5 has it through and through
23:22.29``ErikI didn't think the core duos had that support
23:22.50brlcadthe workstations are quad-core xeons
23:23.04``Erikat most, the EMT64 memory hack, not 64b arithmatic and stuff
23:23.06brlcadlaptpos are core 2 duos
23:23.22``Erikokie, I haven't looked at asm notions on the footrest yet
23:23.31brlcadeither way, it works -- i've compiled the 4-way uni binaries :)
23:24.03brlcadand they do kick in on the new workstations if you go 64bit
23:24.06``Erikthe 4 core opteron fbsd box seems to compile faster, so'z I use it
23:24.41brlcadyeah, apple has their own optimization loop that does "a little bit better" than gcc's default, but takes way longer
23:24.57brlcadused to be massive difference
23:25.16``Erikthat, the short&quick bsd land file ops seem significantly slower (perhaps the mach layer)
23:25.46brlcada compile on my old laptop took an hour under mac os x, and 20 minutes on the same hardware running yellow dog linux, same version of gcc
23:25.53``Erikand I haven't gotten the tuning to allow bunches of processes to run in parallel, so'z I keep running into fork resource unavaiable crap when I try to od things fast :D
23:26.16brlcadah, you have to bump up your limit
23:26.20brlcadit's not set for devs by default
23:26.31``Eriknow, if you took, say, a huge single .c file and compiled it with -pipe, what was the difference? :D
23:26.43``Erikno, at least, not devs who work in terminal.
23:27.08brlcadit was way slower even on single file -- that was one of the tests I ran
23:27.27brlcadi don't remember those exact numbers, but it was more than 2x at O3
23:27.48``Erikand O0? :D
23:27.50brlcadand after talking to some of the apple devs, they commented on their custom optimization loop
23:28.39brlcadthey got a couple of the old mipspro compiler guys as well, put them to work
23:29.35brlcadyou should check your sysctl kern.maxproc -- it should be > 512
23:33.31``Erikhum
23:33.41``ErikI think I made it 4x, and that alleviated it a LITTLE
23:33.50``Erikbut I think that was still fairly shy of 512
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23:52.02``Erikmebbe it's maxprocperuid that's got me down
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071102

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071102

00:19.10IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/anothershot.png   :)
00:20.15IriX64ahem... does if_wgl have known issues
00:21.04IriX64i put a #if 0 in plave of #ifdef IF_WGL for now
00:21.12IriX64err place
00:22.26IriX64that gets me by that point for now
00:38.34bpooleWhat a surprise, it's havoc.png.
00:39.21bpooleYou shouldn't do hackish things like that, file a bug report or something and get the real problem fixed.
00:41.59``Erikum
00:42.06``Erikif_wgl is not, uh
00:42.18``Eriksomething any of the primary developers look at
00:42.30``Erikall, y'know, 1.5 of us O:-)
00:43.16``Erikbut all those awesome commits from bparker for winders support... he's all dollared up to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and bubble gum isn't in the budget
00:43.48``Erikor, uh, ain't in the budget
00:53.15IriX64:)
00:54.59IriX64i'm up to libdm :)
00:59.21IriX64bpoole: i *can't file formal bug reports
00:59.32bpooleWhy not?
00:59.35IriX64my system is the weirdest thing you'll ever see
00:59.58IriX64thank God for these guys :)
01:00.01bpooleDid brlcad ask you not to file them?
01:00.10IriX64no i elected not too
01:00.21IriX64never quite sure whos at fault
01:01.27IriX64sort of a "gentlemans agreement" :)
01:03.15IriX64bpoole in the past two weeks ive done a complete cvs checkout of brlcad at least 5 times
01:14.40``Erikheh
01:15.07``Erikyou can file formal bug reports. But if it's an issue with YOUR system, we will say so.
01:15.24IriX64as is proper
01:15.31``Erikand since YOUR system is twisted from anything "normal", you'll probably get a lot of bounced like that :)
01:15.32IriX64rebootz bbiab
01:15.40IriX64heh yea
01:15.42``ErikI have a cygwin on uhhhh, xp I think?
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01:21.58IriX64heh sorry to cut it short
01:22.06``Erikheh
01:22.08``Erikanyays, I said
01:22.11``ErikI have a cygwin on uhhhh, xp I think?
01:22.21IriX64heh vista64 ;)
01:22.31``Erikif you have something you consider legit, I can attempt to replicate :D
01:23.25IriX64thankyou
01:23.32IriX64:)
01:24.17``Erik<-- wants the damn software to work... thinks awful low of the PF platform, but *shrug* it's a popular platofrm
01:25.32IriX64so is winblows :)
01:31.58IriX64http://rafb.net/p/4LdcG439.html   <--- tedit !?!?!
01:34.19louipcIriX64: what's the point of posting a picture of that same helicopter repeatedly? lol
01:35.16IriX64wanna see how many attitudes i can put it in by dragging it on the screen :)
01:35.53louipchuh?
01:36.18IriX64:)
01:36.47louipcI don't understand what you said
01:36.59IriX64it's ok
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01:46.23starseekerWoo-hoo :-).
01:46.37starseekerhttp://www.stixfonts.org/allGlyphs.html is now much more interesting
01:47.11starseekerFor any Gentoo folk out there, this is an ebuild done the Wrong Way but it gets the job done ;-):  http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197841
01:47.29starseeker(or, more accurately, it needs a bundle of fonts that are bundled the Right Way...)
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02:16.48``Erikoh, uh
02:16.50``Erikbrlcad
02:17.08``Erik700 ain't a permission I can have my way with
02:25.04IriX64hmmmm funky build is installing :)
02:45.07IriX64jove works, mged doesn't shrug
02:52.52IriX64afk
03:22.43``Erikheh
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04:19.53IriX648 dll's and an exe and we have irssi for windoze
04:28.53IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/irssiforwindows-cygwinport.zip    <---- if you wanna peek :)
05:45.42brlcadstarseeker: screenshot of your allGlyphs? :)
05:46.21brlcad``Erik: 700 where?
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12:02.43starseekerbrlcad:  Good idea - working on it.  Better way might actually be a postscript or pdf file - it's a LONG list of characters
12:05.31starseekerAnybody know a good spot to upload a pdf file?
12:08.58Z80-Boystarseeker: they get annoyed no matter what
12:17.41``Erikbrlcad: the directory you scp'd over from that cd
12:27.41starseekerbrlcad:  Apparently the Stix fonts in their current form are actually OpenType - does that work for BRL-CAD?
12:34.39starseekerInteresting - I can't seem to print a postscript file containing visuals of all the fonts.
12:37.52starseeker``Erik:  what did I do?
12:40.59``Erikspoke? :D
12:41.07``Erik<-- is feeling nonoptimal :(
12:41.09starseekerAh :-)  Heavy night?
12:41.21``Erikno
12:41.28``Erikjust woke up feeling like chit
12:41.31starseekerugh
12:46.47starseekerbrlcad:  I've created a pdf of what I can get to print (which is a fair part of it) although I'm not totally sure if it needs the fonts to be installed.
12:47.36starseekerIt's a bit over 1.5 megs if you want to give it a shot - should I email it?
12:52.40brlcadi wasn't looking for the whole thing, just a sampling of the quality :)
12:52.50starseekerAh :-)
12:53.17brlcadah, you still don't have a .bz account, i should fix that sometime..
12:53.25starseekerErm.  OK, I can either take a screenshot of some selected part, or email you the pdf - what's your preference?
12:53.44brlcadif you already have the pdf, can e-mail it
12:53.50brlcadif not, whatever is easy :)
12:53.58starseekerI've got it :-)
12:55.13starseekerOK, sent to your mac addy - if you can't see it I'll snap a screenshot
12:57.41``Erikspeaking of
12:57.51``Erikhave you asked um, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org ?
12:59.26brlcadstarseeker: yeah, it came through - thanks
12:59.40starseekerbrlcad:  np :-)  Does it render correctly?
13:00.00brlcadnot quite as impressive as I'd hoped, but it all came through :)
13:00.38brlcadthe sizes need to be about 1000% to really see the font metrics
13:00.47starseekerHmm
13:01.41starseekerI'll see if I can get creative later, but I'm going up to see my girlfriend this weekend so it might be next week before I can take a stab at it
13:02.02brlcadyou don't have to, it was enought to "get" what they're doing
13:02.13starseekerCool :-).
13:02.21brlcadthey're more about creating a complete set
13:02.24starseekerYep
13:03.36starseekerProbably not really what BRL-CAD needs, unless we start typesetting mathematics in the models ;-)
13:04.05``Erikdo we need, say, a src/tclscripts/mged/addons ? or something?
13:04.23``Erikas a kinda playground for those too nervous to stab at the guts?
13:08.06``Erikdave in the oss mode using sf would be a huge win for everyone, I think... his execution might be a little weak, but that's what the hardcore computer nerds are there to fix up, he bridges the gap between the coder and user very well
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20:38.08IriX64http://rafb.net/p/RSXIaR24.html <--- this ones for "interests" sake only :)
20:44.43IriX64http://rafb.net/p/sFykdn31.html <--- this ones live
20:45.17brlcadthat's a winsock problem, not ours, but thanks
20:46.05brlcadIf I could disable the "report this to us" comment, I would -- the headers are rarely ever anything we have anything to deal with
20:46.20IriX64understood
20:50.36IriX64i don't speak configure.in but i assume this ' is reserved? must be because my editor shows stuff as text where those critters are used in a dnl in tk configure.in
20:51.24IriX64text as opposed to code
20:57.15IriX64http://rafb.net/p/VnnY1E77.html <---- this ones just a mite
20:58.22IriX64i'll turn it off now :)
21:04.22IriX64this time I took autogen's advice and just typed ./configure followed by make :)
21:09.55IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/buildingbrlcadonvist64.png   <---- proof that windoze systems can be usefull :)
21:10.50brlcadheh, 404 not found
21:11.40IriX64hrm
21:12.26IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/buildingbrlcadonvista64.png
21:13.01starseekerYep, that worked
21:13.07IriX64heh
21:27.04IriX64http://rafb.net/p/dwe1XV50.html  <--- man who's using a \r insdtead of a \n ?
21:30.37brlcadit's just using echo
21:30.56IriX64thanks
21:32.02IriX64path problems now.... thats not you :)
21:32.39IriX64say does this hold in *nix land set path=%path%;whatever?
21:32.55brlcaddepends entirely on your shell
21:33.02IriX64i have bash
21:33.05brlcadthen no
21:33.13IriX64farkles
21:33.26brlcadexport PATH=whatever:$PATH
21:33.46IriX64ahh thats what i'm looking for many thanks
21:34.46IriX64i wonder if i did that.... the windows path may be updated too ?!?
21:36.53IriX64btw did anybody with a win32 system try that irssi thingy on my site
21:39.37*** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
21:42.06IriX64http://rafb.net/p/Ph6NR485.html <--- are mites like this nedding to be reported too?
21:43.59IriX64http://rafb.net/p/rHR79n50.html <--- another in the same vein
21:49.18IriX64http://rafb.net/p/1UtiWP79.html <--- murphy can't type worth a darn :)
21:49.53brlcadthere is no \i in vers.c
21:50.22brlcadI'm betting you edited one of the files in include/conf due to the earlier issue, and made a typo
21:50.37IriX64good point
21:50.41brlcadand have just been spamming the channel with your own mistake..
21:50.42IriX64ill check
21:50.55IriX64as i said ill stop now
21:51.05brlcadyou never said you'd stop
21:51.17IriX64yea i did but i didnt
21:52.06brlcadnot in my log's history
21:52.59IriX64<IriX64> i'll turn it off now :)
21:53.23IriX64meaning i'll stop now
21:54.06IriX64but dinner is getting old and cold, i'll be back in a bit
21:54.25brlcadah.. "it" is somehow supposed to be you
21:54.35brlcadand off is supposed to mean stop
21:54.54brlcadwhy didn't I think of that!
21:55.35brlcad:)
21:56.27brlcadminute-ssh: hmmm.. possible to add rotation to your backups? :) .. they're storing data at the rate of about 1GB/week =)
22:10.08*** join/#brlcad rmcc82534 (n=42c29582@bz.bzflag.bz)
22:14.56IriX64http://rafb.net/p/T26MgV27.html <-- are these tcl/tk8.5a specific?
22:20.12IriX64just gonna dummy them out for now
22:20.35brlcadsomething related to it
22:20.42IriX64thanks
22:21.00brlcadlooks like you're using an 8.4
22:21.05IriX64yea
22:21.44IriX64too lazy to type --with-tcl --with-tk ;)
22:31.07IriX64i know you said /lgt/error.c using bu_bomb code was local, but if thats true why are they linking against libbu which *also has a bu_bomb function.
22:32.25IriX64rtsrv same story
22:33.29IriX64ahh i see ... i shouldn't have edited hosts and users in /conf ;)
22:36.38IriX64remrt.c also has a \i  
22:37.12IriX64viewtherm.c too
22:38.04IriX64gotta go, if i get this thing running ill let you know.
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23:31.45IriX64well, it built error free, but at runtime itcl complains it needs tcl8.5 have 8.4
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071103

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071103

00:09.10*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
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01:56.28Luciferso, for those of us who are cad-illiterate, is brl-cad a functionally complete replacement for autocad for machines?
01:57.18*** join/#brlcad ct|kyle (n=kyle@pool-71-97-143-220.aubnin.dsl-w.verizon.net)
02:01.13IriX64http://rafb.net/p/YDzIAj85.html <---- this didn't happen last time, dunno why this time
02:02.17IriX64must be me, ah well
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17:37.01*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
18:17.46IriX64http://rafb.net/p/SoT44O89.html <--- not too familiar with cvs, what's this?
18:19.21IriX64bearing in mind i'm starting from scratch
18:24.24IriX64can't be too serious i got my checkout :)
18:40.29IriX64yukonbob: i tried tcl/tk8.4 and it compiles, but at runtime i get a complaint of needing tcl8.5 :(
18:41.40IriX64from itcl that is
18:42.29IriX64he say: "so use tcl8.5"  ;)
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21:24.39yukonbobIriX64: what generated the error; depending on that, I'd be curious to see your build... I've been using tcl/tk 8.4 and associated libs w/o problems for a while...
21:25.05IriX64itcl said it needed 8.5
21:25.27yukonbobfrom running mged, I take it?
21:25.36IriX64yes
21:25.43IriX64on 7.11.0 build
21:28.43yukonbobwell, the itcl/itk binary libs might be (probably are) linked against what they hope are tcl/tk8.5, which is _not_ what you want... I'm running itcl/itk "current (20040920)" built against tcl/tk 8.4 w/o issues
21:29.29IriX64I see ... i think you're right in that
21:30.39IriX64if I ever get this thing running, I think I'll "freeze" the code tree :)
21:31.58yukonbobif you build or install itk/itcl the same way you put tcl/tk 8.4 on your system, instead of relying on the brl-cad distributed bits, you'll fare better... make sure you're using the already installed/properly working tcl/tk 8.4, and itcl/itk, w/o building from the brl-cad distributed source. the .tgz ships with _everything_ for completeness' sake, but you're not obligated to build from it -- in fact there are good reasons to _not_ build with it...
21:32.29IriX64noted
21:32.42yukonbobdid you use the notes/diffs I posted earlier for modifying the configure.ac, etc?
21:33.10IriX64didn't take much fiddling, i'm pretty good at that schtuff
21:34.32IriX64hehe stereo compiles, 7.8.4 vs 7.11.0 :)
21:37.24yukonbobIriX64: re: fiddling -- cool... you might want to compare notes in any event even if you do your own fiddling; the work I've done to date works, and might help you get a working compile too. Then we can compare methods/results once you're up/running...
21:37.44IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/stereo.png
21:37.55IriX64understood yukonbob, thanks
21:49.13IriX64err murphy too
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22:27.55``Erikum
22:28.30``Erikif you build itcl from the brlcad repo and use a system installed tcl, if the system tcl is not the exact same version as the one in src/other/tcl (8.5a6), it will fail
22:29.19``Erikthe 'easy' way to fix it is to edit the init.tcl script in src/other/tcl/library and around ~20ish lines in, there'll be a "require" line with an "exact version" argument, change the 8.5a6 to your system tcl version
22:30.08``Erikthe 'real' way to fix it is to make all the itcl stuff, ampi stuff, etc know to use the systems init.tcl instead of the hardcoded path to the included init.tcl
22:30.10``Erik:D
22:45.13IriX64he says calmly... pffft on that it should just "know" :)
22:47.51IriX64i'm tempted to set DON'T_HAVE_CONFIG_H....act accordingly :)
22:51.21IriX64mmmmm unlimber 9mm, fire at foot
22:51.47yukonbob``Erik: or complete remove the "-exact Tcl [blahblah]", and just use "package require Tcl" and let it pick the best one available...
22:54.03yukonbob...or use your systems (or orig. distribution of itcl/itk) and let them sort it out, and manage those things (tcl, tk, itcl, itk, tkimg, etc) seperately, instead of from w/i a big build like "brlcad, incl. tcl, tcl, tkimg, itk, itcl, libpng, liburt, jove, etc., etc.)
22:57.09``Erikyeah *shrug* that file is straight from tcl
22:58.15``Erik<-- favor of the "let the package maintainer deal with the dependancies" angle
22:58.21``Erikin favor of, even
22:58.23``Erik*shrug*
22:58.48``Erikthere are issues with that, though, with version requirements and shtuff
23:09.40IriX64http://rafb.net/p/TaNn2860.html <--- someone... this is a prob here, is it a prob elsewhere?
23:16.01IriX64wtf is g-nmg, and why is it compiling here ;)
23:19.04``Erika G to NMG converter
23:19.28IriX64urfff something else i'll prolly never use :)
23:20.19IriX64heh photon mapping is a huge yes :)
23:21.31IriX64i checked out today thankyou :)
23:22.46louipcIriX64: what file is that in?
23:23.08IriX64read the description
23:23.27louipcah
23:26.38louipcwhat's it setting it to?
23:26.50IriX64its set to nothing ie ""
23:27.24IriX64i manually set it to -L/usr/X11R6/lib, that works on *my system
23:27.31louipcyou should investigate XLIBSW I think
23:27.39louipctcl.m4:         XLIBSW="-L$i -lX11"
23:28.06IriX64louipc it has to be told *where to find X11
23:29.04louipcaye you have a really odd system too eh? so ./configure might not find it
23:29.20IriX64right thats why i said on *my system
23:29.41louipcis it just cygwin?
23:29.53louipcor is it a messed up cygwin? hehe
23:29.57IriX64thats what i'm asking :)
23:30.05louipcI dunno I don't use it
23:30.27louipcyou might want to submit a patch or something for it to work with cygwin
23:30.56IriX64on the bright side i'm currently at rtserver, a point hitherto unreached before :)
23:31.18louipccool
23:31.40IriX64louipc: i don't do patches, build from scratch if neccessary ;)
23:32.23IriX64afk
23:32.30louipcwhy not, your contribution could benefit other cygwin users if it's a standard cygwin setup
23:33.26IriX64I have to agree with brlcad, i'm too edit-happy for such
23:33.31IriX64:)
23:33.55louipclooks like a few lines starting at 2411 in tcl.m4 would need adding to
23:34.25louipc(at line 2411)
23:35.00louipcheh I don't like to have to edit the same thing more than is necessary (eg. once)
23:36.53louipcand all your progress might end up for nothing if for example you decide to do something else for awhile and forget what exactly you need to do. :P
23:37.36yukonbobIriX64: louipc++ -- building patches is where it's at -- _especially_ if you don't like doing it -- since if it's accepted (or used as a basis for improvement) you may never need to do it again ;)
23:38.13louipcyeah and even if you have a weird ass system, just keep a patch for yourself
23:38.24louipcuntar, patch, configure, make
23:40.01yukonbobmight even help one figure out _why_ a system is weird, and allow to fix problem at root (ie: "unweird" your system ;)
23:40.35louipclol
23:42.15IriX64forget it i'm not about to build a cygwin firefox, they have a windoze version, use it :)
23:43.19louipcyeah no point
23:43.33IriX64irssi however ;)
23:45.09IriX64starting parallel compiles of 7.8.4 and 7.11.0 is an exercise in patience :)
23:45.30IriX64but i wanted to see what the system could do
23:46.54louipcI remember building tcl/tk on mingw that was cool
23:47.35IriX64yukonbob:insert diddler, tweak cpu clock to max, back out one quarter turn :)
23:48.32yukonboblouipc: are you running brl-cad on Windows natively?
23:55.12IriX64``Erik package_require blahblah, if i #package_require blahblah, will it fly?
23:55.26louipcyukonbob: no I haven't run windows for 4 yrs or so
23:59.22yukonbobIriX64: no
23:59.39yukonbob...and it's "package require", not "package_require"
23:59.52yukonbobthat's a tcl command to load external code.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071104

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071104

00:00.33yukonbob"package require [somepkg]" will load "[somepkg]" (whatever you say) ie: package require Tk
00:00.59yukonbob(will load the Tk library (for Gui interface/development).
00:01.30yukonbobthe "-exactversion [blah]" is a switch passed to "package require" that (surprise!) requires the exact version you specify.
00:09.04yukonbobIriX64: _I_ would try completely skipping that package require if I were you... what I wrote above applies to all other packages though -- reuqiring a specific version of Tcl (from w/i Tcl) looks like a special trick.
00:10.13IriX64trying it
00:29.11IriX64sigh break time , see you all later :)
00:45.35*** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
02:39.10*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
02:43.14IriX64bwish just built, hallelia
03:03.15IriX64both /lgt/error.c and /remrt/rtsrv.c are trying to duplicate bu_bomb() but they fail to rename them
03:13.51IriX64terrain.exe, is that what you used on the stryker image on brlcad.org/screenshots :)
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16:09.13CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (Display.tcl Dm.tcl QuadDisplay.tcl RtControl.tcl): Activate the fbserv capability on Windows.
16:16.12CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl LoadArcherLibs.tcl): Activate the fbserv capability on Windows.
16:18.48CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/win/tkWinMenu.c: Add option to have double bar tearoffs on windows.
16:24.45*** join/#brlcad Atosark (n=desire@blizzard.ppp.pro-lan.net)
16:25.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: Changed "#ifdef _WIN32" to "#if defined(_WIN32) && \!defined(__CYGWIN__)"
16:27.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: Activate the fbserv capability on Windows.
16:33.04CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: Mods to get the fbserv capability working on Windows. This required using Tcl_OpenTcpServer instead of pkg_permserver which beget other mods.
16:39.42CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/dm-wgl.c: Mods to accommodate the new hdc parameter to _wgl_open_existing().
16:47.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: Mods to get things working on Windows.
16:52.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: Mods to get things working on Windows.
16:58.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/tcl.c: Mods to get the embedded fbserv working in the cadwidgets.
17:00.26*** join/#brlcad DanielFalck (n=DanielFa@pool-71-111-79-184.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net)
17:03.05CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: Mods to get the fbserv capability working on Windows. This required using Tcl_OpenTcpServer instead of pkg_permserver which beget other mods.
17:09.50CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm_obj.c: Mods to accommodate the signature change of fbs_open and fbs_close.
17:13.41CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: Mods to get things working on Windows.
17:16.58*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54876562.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:26.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fbserv_obj.h: Added fbsl_chan member to struct fbserv_listener. Added fbsc_chan and fbsc_handler members to struct fbserv_client.
17:43.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: Mods to accommodate the new hdc parameter to _wgl_open_existing().
17:45.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/libfb/libfb.vcproj: Using fbserv_obj.c instead of fbserb_obj_win32.c
17:47.50CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/ (25 files in 25 dirs): Minor updates.
18:15.28*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
18:17.44IriX64http://rafb.net/p/wqxZuC31.html <--- just did a cvs update, first time i've seen this one :)
18:21.16IriX64bear in mind it could be my weird system, but i've not touched system stuff in the past three days
18:26.39CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc7/itkstub/itkstub.vcproj: Update include dirs.
18:33.54*** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
19:08.30IriX64I used this to configure ---> ./configure --enable-almost-everything CFLAGS="-msse3 -march=opteron -mtune=opteron -mhard-float -I/usr/X11R6/include" LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lXit -lext -lXft"
19:11.29IriX64forgot -lXi :)
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20:47.53IriX64well pfffft, bwish links, but mged doesn't
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071105

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071105

00:16.11*** part/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru)
01:10.32*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
01:11.21IriX64gentlemen... does configure ever fail to AC_SUBST(LDFLAGS) ?
01:11.46IriX64ive got something weird going on in other/tk/unix
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04:38.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): use the feature-specific HAVE_WINSOCK_H header define instead of platform-specific defines
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06:07.03yukonbobif anybody has a dual monitor setup (off single card, preferably, like a laptop w/ connected display and VGA out), would they mind testing mged on a specific xorg.conf for me?
06:28.23poolioyukonbob: I can later if you post it somewhere. I've got an Asus W3J that sometimes works that I can hook up to an external LCD.
06:29.59yukonbobpoolio: cool -- I've got a new (to me) setup where I use two screens from w/i the X configuration (ie: not a shared screen, or Xinerama, etc), so I've got DISPLAY vars that are :0.0, and :0.1, but mged crashes in :0.1 (well, fails to start, with error)
06:31.09yukonbobI used to use a shared screen setup across two monitors, and that works np, but this one gives:
06:31.12yukonbobX Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) Major opcode of failed request:  1 (X_CreateWindow) Serial number of failed request:  32 Current serial number in output stream:  35
06:31.34yukonbobso it'd be nice to see if it's only me, or this type of setup...
06:43.49poolioyukonbob: Yes I used to get that error. No, I did not investigate, just used it on the first desktop. (It should work on the :0 display)
06:44.16poolioI'm going to sleep, I'll be around tomorrow if you'd like me to test with my config / your config.
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14:04.34brlcadyukonbob: hmmm, is that your compilation or ours? .. if it's yours, is it using X11 or GLX?  if it's using GLX, can you recompile and try X11 (--without-opengl)
14:29.24CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libpng needs zlib to link (on some platforms)
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17:45.18``Erikblargh
17:48.20yukonbobbrlcad: it's my compilation...
17:57.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: erik upgraded the bundled incrtcl/tk from 3.3b1 to 3.3.0
18:21.10yukonbobbrlcad: do you mean "--with-ogl=no", or is there an unlisted flag --without-opengl...
18:22.06*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.101.201)
18:24.17yukonbob(though I don't think I've got ogl support in anyway...)
18:28.01``Erikbob: there're a LOT of aliases ... :)
18:29.25yukonbob``Erik: ahh --- well, I used both --without-opengl and --with-ogl=no this time, for good measure ;)
18:30.04yukonbob``Erik: you running a dual monitor setup?
18:44.23``Eriktriple
18:44.43``Eriktwo 23"'s wit big honkin' xterms, each running screen, and a 30" to the right with the web browser
18:46.35yukonbobhttp://pipefour.org/wmii/xorg.conf <-- basis for my new xorg.conf, which now fails.
18:47.59``Erikhum, I haven't done xinerama in a long time, I sit at macs...
18:49.07yukonbobah -- this isn't xinerama, but is X11.
18:50.01yukonbobbrlcad: same issue w/ new build...
18:50.33yukonbobno problems on :0.0, no dice on :0.1
18:53.02``ErikA man thinks he'll be charitable and says to a homeless man, "Paint my porch out back, and I'll give you $100". Later in the day, the homeless guy knocks on the door and says, "I'm all done. By the way, it's a Mercedes."
18:53.15``ErikI thought xinerama was the multi display engine under x11/xorg?
18:53.27``Erikunless nvidia went and weirded it up (like they did with everything else, 'cept xaa)
18:54.57yukonbobxinerama is one way to do it, afaik, but there are other ways that aren't "Xinerama" (iiuc)
18:55.27``Erikokie, it's been a while since I've looked at it :)
18:56.01``Erikand it was on fbsd, which might have had a different set of widgets and knobs for doing it
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21:54.18IriX64told you i have a strange system, all my libs end in .dll.a  :)
21:55.17IriX64tcl.m4 does not look for that extention
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23:22.19``Erikhrm
23:23.58yukonbob~lart slow days
23:23.59ibotthrows a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at slow days
23:24.11``ErikO.o
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071106

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071106

00:25.49*** join/#brlcad docelic_ (n=docelic@77.237.104.12)
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00:56.02IriX64heheh change .a to .dll.a in tclm4 and it finds x now :)
01:01.06IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/desktop.png
01:01.10IriX64:)
02:23.24*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
02:43.59yukonboblouipc: /me didn't know you were a Torontonian...
02:44.44louipcyukonbob: are you?
02:45.09yukonbobI was -- and just got back from two weeks in TO -- was in Roncesvales...
02:47.46louipccool, where are you now?
02:47.55yukonbobWhitehorse, YT.
02:48.01louipcmofo!
02:48.07louipcwhat's up there?
02:48.11yukonbobsnow?
02:48.25louipcwhat brings a person there other than caribou?
02:48.41yukonbobmy gf is a cultural anthropology grad student, doing her research...
02:49.04louipcah
02:49.13yukonbobwhere abouts in TO are you?
02:49.32louipcwatch out for invading russians, I might go up and help some time
02:49.45louipcyukonbob: Mississauga, heheh
02:50.35yukonbobah -- re: russians -- are you in military?
02:51.23louipcnope
03:13.00``Erikdamn canucks
03:17.41louipc``Erik: too late
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14:19.08``Erik*yawn*.
17:25.20``Erikblargh
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17:50.56*** join/#brlcad minute-ssh (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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18:30.19``Erikheh, nice, EDOOFUS :)
18:31.25*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-030-155.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:32.00``Erik./errno.h:#define EDOOFUS               88              /* Programming error */
18:32.12``Erikand people say the fbsd community isn't very friendly :D
18:45.19*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-110-242.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:52.30brlcadhttp://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2003-May/000791.html
18:53.29brlcadopportunity doesn't get much better than that!
18:54.37Z80-Boybrlcad: I have just removed my e-mail
18:54.55brlcad?
18:55.02Z80-BoyCause I had to check the spams that got through the filter
18:55.18Z80-BoyAnd when I was absent for couple of days, my friend's e-mail server where it was hosted got overloade
18:55.56Z80-Boywohoo, freedom!
18:56.29Z80-Boybrlcad: so I won't get any bugreport notifications regarding brl-cad
18:56.38brlcadah, okay
18:57.44Z80-BoyNow I'll try to use IRC instead
18:58.38brlcadwould be cool if cia could relay sf.net tracker changes
18:59.58Z80-BoyOnce I had a folder with 70,000 spams taking 650MB
19:00.08brlcadwouldn't be too tricky to set up a hierarchical file-based tracker dump with a cron job that committed updates to svn
19:00.31Z80-Boyand the friend who hosted my e-mail already killed my IMAP connection several times when I was downloading a much smaller chunk of e-mails, just from 1 week of absence
19:00.57Z80-BoyI'll change the Ronja pages to say that people should ask for support on IRC
19:02.57MinuteElectronGmail == No SPAM
19:03.19Z80-BoyI don't want to submit my private communication to Google
19:03.27Z80-BoyMinuteElectron: do they have a good spam filtering system?
19:03.37MinuteElectronhell yes
19:04.07MinuteElectronI have recieved about two pieces of spam on my gmail account ever, everything else goes to the spam bin which I check occasionally.
19:04.23Z80-BoyI don't want to need to check any spam bin
19:04.43MinuteElectronwell, i've never had any real e-mail go to the spam bin
19:04.50MinuteElectronI'm just paranoid
19:04.58Z80-Boybrlcad: I have created two new models after the arbn issue was fixed, which was preventing them from being finished correctly
19:05.29Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/plazmatron_s0.png
19:05.32``Erikno spam, and still 98% of legitimate message!
19:05.33``Eriks
19:06.07``Erikspamassassin with a little training is solid, and you can retain the spam folder to look for false positives
19:06.18Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new_2.png
19:06.28``Erikcombined with mutts ability to sort by 'spamminess' (spam score)... :)
19:07.03Z80-Boy``Erik: I had spamassassin, but the Perl segfaulted in some database library
19:07.57Z80-Boybrlcad: I can even post you .avi links if you want to see it as a rotating video
19:08.32Z80-Boybrlcad: now it seems that the arbn has no problem with unnormalized vectors anymore - I intentionally kept unnormalized vectors there, so that possible problems with brl-cad would be discovered
19:09.02Z80-Boy``Erik: There is also an aspect called "Information overload" and "Information explosion", see Wikipedia on these terms
19:09.41``Erikerm, why would I need to look at wikipedia for those? O.o
19:09.55Z80-Boyhehe
19:10.03``Erikand, erm, the comment about mutts spam score sorting is to alleviate that issue... :D
19:10.56Z80-BoyThen the SMTP system got screwed by artificial, non-functional hurdles attempting to stop spammers
19:11.22Z80-Boylike sender verify, banning open relays and blacklisting dynamic IP addresses
19:11.25``Erikheh, and I use my own mua for reading e-mail, to further reduce cognative load (breaks each mailing list into a seperate "mail box", etc)
19:11.38Z80-BoyFrom these three, every single one annoyed me when I tried to set up my legitimate e-mail system.
19:12.08Z80-Boy``Erik: did you write it yourself?
19:12.12``Erikthe mua? yeah
19:12.16Z80-BoyIn C?
19:12.23``Erikyup
19:12.50``Erikwas also exploring some ideas at the time... it's got some neat ideas, but I'm not really proud of the execution *shrug*
19:15.53Z80-BoyI replaced spamassassin by bogofilter which is much faster and hasn't segfaulted, but it allows more spam through and still needs to be feeded like some kind of Tamagochi
19:16.49``Erikadd in that it can be trained to futher improve the result, ... *shrug* I'm happy for now
19:17.10``Erikthough paul graham has an article about simplified spam detection
19:17.49``Erik'cept I'd want to push that idea further, and have automatic mailbox selection, and an mua where if you drag a mail from one folder to another, it 'learns' that in place
19:18.19``Erikof course, those were issues when I was on 30+ mailing lists, many fairly high traffic :D I don't do that anymore
19:21.25Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
19:21.34Z80-Boyand especially openbsd misc has low S/N ration
19:21.41Z80-BoyIt's all "you're an idiot
19:21.46``Erikheh
19:21.49Z80-Boy<PROTECTED>
19:21.53``Erikso they're moderated and only theo posts?
19:21.53``Erik;D
19:22.03Z80-Boy;-)
19:22.13``Erikthe fbsd ones were usually pretty civil
19:22.19Z80-BoyOnce they told me I am a troll and I just politely asked about some technical issues
19:22.27``Erikunlike the irc channels *cough* :D
19:24.37Z80-Boyirch channels of the #OS.country type are surprisingly hostile
19:24.50``Erikestablished ones are
19:24.58``Erikvery new os's seem very friendly *shrug*
19:25.41``Erikthey're kinda still in the "holy shit, people are looking at this???" phase
19:51.05brlcadmm. sun fire x4500 are even cheaper with massive diskage
19:52.05brlcadZ80-Boy: those are really nice
19:52.17brlcadreally close to machining quality
20:01.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
20:01.31CIA-27BRL-CAD: Mr. Anderson fixed various non-normalized vector bugs with the ARBN primitive
20:01.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: that was causing all sorts of problems with rotations, shading, mirroring, and
20:01.35CIA-27BRL-CAD: more. the primitive was assuming the vectors were normalized, thus causing the
20:01.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: problems. Johns fixes take care of sf bugs 1800148 and 1800161 reported by
20:01.44CIA-27BRL-CAD: clock3/karel that specifically reported the mirroring and shading problems.
20:15.22Z80-Boybrlcad: thanks
20:27.46*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-110-242.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:28.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_wgl.c: We don't need to check for Windows in this file ;-).
20:38.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: Fixed call to strncpy so as not to overwrite buf.
20:42.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libfb/fbserv_obj.c: Check fbsl_fd before closing.
20:44.41CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/itclInt.h: Looks like Sean's earlier fix got lost. Putting it back.
20:44.56``Erikhehehe as I'm about to clobber that file :D
20:47.00``Erikoh, just a config.h dealie
20:48.17``Eriker
20:48.30``Eriks/why we/if we should/
20:52.55brlcadnow that it's working for tcl/tk, yeah I'd think so
20:53.11brlcadthe less to tweak/maintain in other, the better
20:53.31``Erikassuming people can stomach the configure time :)
20:53.57brlcadour default cacheing is at least enabled by default :)
20:54.21brlcadwe could recover that time by doing better caching of our own compilation tests
20:54.38brlcadbreaking out each functionality test into an m4 with cache support would be good
20:55.05``Erikthere's still a fair bit that wouldn't be covered by caching, I think... the same grunt from a 'trivial' autoconf project, plus all those cache checks
20:55.12brlcadeither way, I dont' care if they think it's long :)
20:55.47brlcadthe time is recovered by not maintaining their build
20:55.57brlcadthe bigger question is whether their autocruft is up to snuff
20:56.20brlcadtcl's is *barely* usable now ..
20:56.56brlcadwasn't pre 8.4.6 or therebouts
21:01.54``Erikblehhhhhhhhhh, change to configure.ac
21:01.59``Erik*grouse*
21:19.40*** part/#brlcad bobbmt (n=graceind@static-71-240-124-130.pitbpa.east.verizon.net)
21:35.58CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/ (698 files in 28 dirs): tcl 8.5a6->8.5b1
21:39.22CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/ (716 files in 20 dirs): tk 8.5a6->8.5b1
21:41.51CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/generic/ (17 files): update a good bit out of itcl development version, to cope with changes in tcl85b1
21:43.34CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/ (12 files in 2 dirs): update a good bit out of itk development version, to keep in sync with itcl
21:44.15*** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu)
21:44.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: note that we use (and search for) itcl/itk 3.4
22:17.46``Erikhum, mged seems to behave, rt works fine, ... O.o
22:18.17``ErikAAH, I'm blind#!~
22:19.35``Erikarcher seems to come up, not sure what I'm looking at, though
22:20.06brlcadif you run into funky cursors with remote-to-mac, that's a X11 bug on OS X afaik
22:20.17``Erikno, cursers looked all good
22:20.27``ErikI'm running it on a fbsd opteron
22:20.28brlcadyeah, I got archer all working a couple months ago -- turn on "advanced" mode for a lil more familiarity
22:21.09``Erikwell, it's dark in my office, my screens are all black... I ran it, and all three instantly turned white
22:21.12``ErikI'm done with that program.
22:22.53``Erikand a leenewx
22:23.58``Erikya know, 85b1 has some dtrace stuff in it O.o
22:31.01``Erikhuh
22:31.12``Erikthe cursor issue showed up from linux, not bsd...
22:31.46brlcadit's a byte ordering issue, depends on endian
22:31.57``Eriksame arch
22:32.06brlcadthen it's a tcl issue
22:32.17``Erikboth using internally build tcl 85b1
22:32.20brlcadthe issue I'm thinking of is a byte order endian problem
22:32.52brlcadand mac x11 specific)
22:33.21``Erikum, same source tree, same arch, both displaying to the same mac x86 workstation
22:35.33``Erikum, the last of the linux opterons in /usr/tmp/brlcad vs the opteron fbsd in /usr/tmp/<myusername>/brlcadbuild
22:35.38``Erikif you want to compare and contrast
22:35.52``Erikthe 'massive icon with a fuzzy yellow look'?
22:37.28brlcadyeah
22:37.48brlcadmaybe still the same issue, but related to 64-bit client to 32-bit server
22:38.12brlcadmac is 32-bit even on the new boxen
22:38.51brlcadwhich is causing me grief at the moment for making one universal mac build ..
22:39.18``Erikmged: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
22:39.19``Erikbin/mged: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
22:39.58``Erikoh, and my bad, on the fbsd, it's not /usr/tmp/blah/brlcadbuild, it's /usr/brlcad/HEAD
22:40.00brlcadyup
22:40.32``Erikok
22:40.48``Erikjust a datapoint, bsd does not exhibit the issue, linux does... for me
22:41.27brlcadyeah, makes sense
22:41.43brlcadlinux x11 client sends the cursor back as an image instead of a bitmap iirc
22:41.58brlcadthere was a mac hint write-up on this somewhere
22:42.01CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention version bumps on contrib stuff
22:42.19``Erikhum, I thought both did what Xorg or X11R6 told 'em to, fbsd doesn't twiddle bits like openbsd does
22:42.25brlcadhttp://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060316124704289
22:42.41``Erikunless redhat is getting their fingers where they don't belong (yet again)
22:43.03``Erikoohhh, 'blue facet', huh
22:43.26brlcadeither way, the 'bug' is in the X11 apple's using or in something tcl 8.5's doing since that's when it starts
22:44.45``Erikhum, the 'dedication' pic comes up fine
22:45.09``Erikas do the logos on the archer splash screen, from both boxen
22:45.14``Erik*shrug*
22:45.27``Eriksomething for another day :D
22:45.37``Erik<-- starts packing up to go grocery shopping
22:46.55brlcadyeah, given the dates of that report, I'm betting tcl 8.5 has the same bug where it's packing its own cursor for some widgets
23:59.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl src/librt/wdb_obj.c NEWS):
23:59.02CIA-27BRL-CAD: the mged 'tol' command now accepts multiple tolerance arguments so that users
23:59.04CIA-27BRL-CAD: can set multiple tolerances with just one command invocation. this change makes
23:59.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: the tol command interatively accept pairs of tolerance types with the
23:59.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: corresponding value.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071107

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071107

00:57.44*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:10.21*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=IriX64@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
02:15.18IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/desktop2.png
02:23.28yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/brlcad.gif
02:25.59louipcoh I'll show one too
02:27.40louipchttp://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.png
02:37.38IriX64what is that :)
02:37.56louipcscreenshot
02:38.05IriX64i mean what system
02:38.36louipcarchlinux, openbox, irssi, firefox
02:39.42IriX64beautifull
02:40.20louipcconky at the top right
02:42.58IriX64sigh.. thanks for the eye candy, i gotta run.
02:43.16louipcI thought my desktop looked crappy
02:43.29louipcwell until  you take away the windows the wallpaper is nice
03:30.14bpooleyukonbob: is that ion3?
03:32.12yukonbobbpoole: no -- a pair of dwm (x2)
03:32.34yukonboberr... pair | (x2), pick one ;)
03:33.23yukonbobbpoole: though I was running ion3 up till other day, and may well go back -- just a bit of testing...
03:35.23yukonbobbpoole: re: x2 -- that was only 1 of two displays you saw, so I guess it was really just "dwm"... I've got a dwm on ea. display atm, though
03:36.22louipcI heard ion will go closed source
03:37.58yukonbobthere was some issue w/ the license because of ppl modifying it too much and still calling it "ion"... not sure how far it'll go, though. Certainly if it gets too restrictive people will just move on -- as cool as it is, it's only a window manager and there are lots to pick from...
03:44.42``Erikheh
03:46.09``Erikspeaking of, when the hell did enlightenment go from being a resource heavy cpu and memory gobbling monster to a 'highly efficient and light' wm?
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04:19.43brlcadyukonbob: hehe
04:21.49yukonbobbrlcad: should topic be 7.10.4 has arrived?
04:25.51brlcadnot quite yet
04:26.03brlcadthere are still a couple binaries I'm trying to sort out
04:26.17brlcadthen several announcements that have to go out
04:26.21brlcadthen it'll be done :)
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14:05.19``Erikblargh
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15:44.24CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review the root solver
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15:54.16``Erikheh
15:54.55brlcadahh, jra is lunchmongering too already :)
15:55.00``Erikheh
15:55.03``Erikoh, uh
15:55.35``Erikbad brlcad, bad... not documenting the change of rt_version to being a function
15:56.07``Eriked passed that "issue" to me, so'z I had to walk geoff through the "fix"... "add parenthesis at the end of it?)
15:56.08``Erik"
15:56.09``Erikheh
15:56.36brlcadthat was private data
15:56.47``Erikthey were using it *shrug*
15:57.33``Erikdan claimed it was a bug they missed during testing (this is like 4th hand now, so grab your salt lick)
15:58.19brlcadhow in the world they "missed" somethign that should have been an outright compilation error...
15:59.26``Erikheh, it was static?
16:01.47``Erik(and, uh, I really wouldn't be surprised at that group outright missing compiler errors) O:-)
16:02.30``Erikerm, it was exported in 7.8.0 in raytrace.h
16:02.33``ErikRT_EXPORT extern const char rt_version[];
16:04.10``Erik(is the linux stuff really necessary on that box?)
16:05.46brlcadhmm, I think that was just to get the windows build to work
16:06.02brlcadi remember when they were working on the version hooks, they could probably totally change it now
16:06.13brlcadusing either the func or the other version hooks that there are now
16:06.44brlcadlinux stuff?
16:07.20``Erikenable_linux="YES", linux_base_fc4, ...
16:08.06brlcadooh
16:08.19brlcadno, it's not
16:08.30brlcadthat's part of the /etc config migration work
16:08.48brlcadthere's a ton of little details like that needing to be beaten into submission
16:10.56``Erik<-- just building ports that look necessary (or desired), once data migration starts and problems crop up, can add unforseen ports
16:11.10``Erikobviously, vim had to go on. :D
16:11.58yukonbob``Erik: [x]emacs w/ viper mode :)
16:12.33``Erikvim+cscope+ruby plus my hackish .vimrc :D
16:13.34brlcadyeah, doesn't make sense to migrate the apps, they should be readded through ports
16:13.42brlcadas needed
16:14.05``Erikthey'd probably break through abi and lib name changes anyways
16:14.08brlcadstill will be a done of junk when it's all done.. there are probably 30 ports related to the web services
16:14.25brlcad(not counting apache and friends)
16:14.34``Erikapache22 and php5 are on my list
16:14.54``Erikbeyond that, I don't use the web stuff there, so'z I dunno... mediawiki, I'd imagine...
16:15.07``Erikwhich LOOKS like what sf uses O.o
16:16.14brlcadthings like various perl modules, gd image processing, some filters, a few mod_*'s
16:16.44``Erikhow many are actually USED, though?
16:16.53brlcadpretty much all of them
16:16.56``Erikand use pkg_cutleaves -l, not pkg_info or ls /var/db/pkg :)
16:17.00brlcadotherwise I wouldn't mention :)
16:17.58``Erik<-- has deeply instilled attitudes about keeping servers as minimal and task specific as reasonable, though has no problem throwing on things like vim, bash, a scheme and/or lithp environment, ruby, ... :D
16:18.23brlcadlikewise
16:18.32brlcadjust in this case, minimal is a lot of stuff is all i'm saying
16:18.38``Erikyeah
16:19.23``Erikbut if ya draw the ports graph, and draw a curvey line through dividing necessary and unnecessary, some leaves will be in and some will be out
16:19.32``ErikI don't know which ones go where for the web stuff
16:19.55``Erikand I'll imagine some web leaves will be on the unnecessary side *shrug*
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18:19.34brlcadhrm.. 7.10 is about 10% faster than 7.8 on some cursory testing..
18:27.30``Erikswank
18:32.50brlcadholy crapoli
18:32.58brlcadlogins now work!
18:33.19brlcadand I didn't change a damn thing .. did you change anything?
18:33.49brlcadi'm guessing some db finally got updated via atrun or cron that let it recognize them as valid users
18:34.38brlcad(something other than pwd_mkdb)
18:34.57brlcadooooh, you know what .. I bet I know what "fixed" it ...
18:37.27``Erikum
18:37.37``ErikI did a couple mergemasters
18:37.44``Erikwhich do lots of scary shit in the etc dir
18:38.09``Erikwhat's your surspicion?
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19:29.54``Erikdrupal5 and mediawiki are installed
19:31.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/timer-nt.c: time() requires a time_t
20:29.40brlcaddon't worry about the web services, that all totally changes once apache comes over
20:30.30brlcadsome of the sites hosted require specific versions in order for various modules to work, others will have to have their db's upgraded at the same time
20:31.08brlcad``Erik: suspicion is /etc/shells
20:31.20brlcadall of the accounts that were tested were undoubtedly set to /usr/local/bin/bash
20:31.35brlcadso ssh was getting some "rejection" based on the shell, which it just turned into "invalid user"
20:31.42brlcadeven though the password was correct
20:32.33brlcadpretty awesomeness, all users now migrated seamless
20:32.42brlcadfew more shells to add
21:15.50``Erikahhhhh
21:16.01``Erikok, I added bash before mergemaster
21:16.04``Erikcoo'
21:16.18``Erikmebbe I should write myself down for having fixed that issue :D *duck*
21:18.02brlcadsure
21:18.56``Erik(not like there's any glory on that list, other than getting the dman machine working)
21:19.20brlcadyep :)
21:19.26brlcadthe file gets deleted when it's all done
21:19.40brlcadjust a shared notepad and mental reminder list of what's left
21:20.58``Erikand just hope no one uses an editor that doesn't look to make sure it hasn't changed before writing :)
21:27.14``Erikhum, screen, sudo, brlcad, ...
21:28.39``Erikmysql and apache are installed
21:28.51``Eriklooks like most of what's left is copying data
21:29.22minuteCrap
21:29.23minutesorry
21:30.29minute2.5GB shit
21:30.59minuterm -rf :)
21:32.29``Erik... you.... pooped? on brlcad's machine? O.o
21:33.09minutelol
21:33.21minuteI guess you could say that :P
21:35.35minuteFixed now anyway.
21:35.42minuteWon't let it happen again.
21:54.56minute;P
21:55.11``Erikputs me at 1.7m consumption
21:59.27minutehehe
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22:42.48brlcadahh, was wondering when minute would notice
22:43.22brlcadhe had daily backups going to his home, adding about 150MB/day
22:56.17``Eriklater, kids, headin' home :D
23:36.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: update the adrt comment, it actually builds fairly cleanly not IF you have the dependencies installed, but still don't force-enable since they are unmanaged external
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071108

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00:13.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
00:13.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: don't just check whether the option is set to the default -- check if it's been
00:13.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: set at all so that you can use --enable-all with --disable options that may be
00:13.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: default 'no' already. ran into this situation trying to disable opennurbs
00:13.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: (which was already default off).
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00:17.24IriX64louipc, got anymore screenshots? i really liked that last one.
00:20.33Supaplexis it your archnemesis?
00:20.51IriX64mayhap a dream :)
00:21.17IriX64a freaking system that works :)
00:22.25SupaplexI hear paper and pencil are pretty reliable
00:22.55IriX64a system where libraries aren't called *.dll.a   :(
00:23.58``Erik<-- pretty happy with the mac/fbsd combo, thinks brlcad is more or less in the same groove
00:24.25IriX64mmmm leopard beckons me if i switch
00:26.25IriX64man you guys are adamant about copying being untouchable aren't you
00:27.02``Erik?
00:27.27IriX64autogen tries to copy COPYING and it gets permission denied
00:27.38``Erikit tries to copy OVER COPYING
00:27.40``Erikwhich'd be BAD
00:27.45IriX64ah
00:37.41IriX64i should read that someday, but why i don't plan to give anyone a copy
00:42.29yukonbob*BSD++
00:54.39louipcIriX64: http://louipc.dontexist.org/screenie.jpg that's how I usually work. confusing huh? I should probably get a 1px border around the windows
00:56.53Supaplexwahou, I'm immortalized in a screenshot :D
00:57.45louipcI usually don't keep them around for -too- long :P
00:58.09Supaplex:)
00:59.02louipcIriX64: yeah man you should try linux or bsd or something, get a cheap computer second hand or something if you don't want to mess with your main machine
00:59.57IriX64nice shot
01:00.08IriX64maybe ill switch
01:00.34louipcit took me a long time to completely switch
01:00.50IriX64and now you're happy?
01:00.50louipcmaybe 3 yrs trying out various distros
01:00.58louipcyeah now I'm totally good
01:01.15IriX64ill give it serious thought
01:09.20IriX64mmmm when i engage serious mode nothing happens ;)
01:14.46``Erikthinking hard *grunt*
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01:35.25IriX64``Erik, mines more like *blank*   :)
01:35.48IriX64hate firing blanks :)
01:36.16louipcbetter than drawing one
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01:45.59IriX64tried but my pencil can't handle that :D
01:48.44IriX64what are you doing looking between my legs :)
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04:13.40brlcadyeesh
04:16.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 7 dirs): minor tweaks, preventive null terminating of strncmp'd strings
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04:42.36louipcyeah what's up with freenode
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04:56.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (5 files in 2 dirs): the 'wall' procedural geometry generator tool was renamed to 'masonry' so as to not conflict with the commonly named 'wall' linux tool that writes a message to all users. source renamed from wall.c to masonry.c
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05:11.45CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 2 dirs): rename the 'hd' hexdump utility to 'hex' as well given the similar linux facilities and cause for conflict/confusion. source renamed from hd.c to hex.c (and manpage in kind)
05:11.46CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: renamed wall and hd commands, someone(tm) should review what else other than our libs that might be common conflict cases where we don't have a justifiable basis/need to keep the name
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05:36.11CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (2 files in 2 dirs): obliterate BRL.MIL references
05:42.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (sh/cray.sh src/fb/cell-fb.1 src/lgt/lgt.1 src/libfb/libfb.3): more brl.mil references begone
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05:55.27CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/ (5 files in 4 dirs): more address updating to avoid mil domain
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14:28.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/Makefile.am: don't choke here if openNURBS is disabled!
14:35.02``Eriksilly coder, "linebuffer[YYLMAX} = '\0';" just don't make sense :D
14:40.54brlcadoop
14:41.30``Erikmust be a little burdened at the moment
14:42.04brlcadit's been having issues for over a day now
14:42.15brlcaddepends which slot we get
14:48.47``Erikya in today? dave was in my office at 9 trying to organize a lunch posse
14:49.03``Erikhe was a bit miffed that we didn't take him yesterday, heh
14:50.29``Erikhttp://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-bird-cat-cage.jpg
14:52.42brlcadyeah, i'm in
14:56.05``Erikin the office, or in for lunch? :)
14:56.52brlcadyep
14:57.18``Erikheh, I'm not a c++ programmer, I don't dig unresolvable ambiguity :D
15:00.04``Erikhum, cool, segfaults in mged
15:04.50brlcadI was able to replicate the rt crash with a simple while loop on moss, on my laptop last night
15:05.03``Erikget a good -ggdb core file?
15:05.19brlcadwhile [ $? -ne 0 ] ; do rt -F/dev/null db/moss.g all.g ; done
15:05.35brlcadnot really, same stack trace I always get
15:05.44``Erikerm
15:05.52brlcadI mean, I have the trace, it's just not really insightful
15:05.59``Erikwhile true ; do rt ...
15:06.00``Erik:D
15:06.28``Erikbut it was a -ggdb build, so you have all the arguments at every frame and can inspect them? or was the stack blown?
15:07.15brlcadwhile true != while [ $? -ne 0 ]
15:08.00brlcadstops as soon as it crashes
15:08.22``Eriko
15:08.35``Erikwhile true ; do ./rt ... || break; done :D
15:08.53``Erikthat's kinda my normal form *shrug*
15:09.12``Erikof course, I build the command funny, I'm a vim user... so -o vi
15:09.41brlcadwhich is of course no different :P
15:09.48brlcadother than 11 chars vs 12 chars
15:10.06``Erikof course, more than 10 ways to skin a cat
15:10.54``Erikbut I'd probably write the one time rt cmd, run it to make sure it does what I expect, then put the while true loop on it... then hop to the end and go "oh yeah, gotta break those" and put in the || break
15:11.09``Erikrabid kbd monkey powers, ACTIVATE!
15:11.42``Erik<-- ain't sayin' one is right or wrong, just noting his usual approach is different due to different ways of building "complex" commands :D
15:11.51``ErikI'm "special" O.o
15:12.07``ErikI'm also becoming a bit annoyed at all these mged crashes
15:13.03brlcadfix em!
15:13.33brlcadit's actually debuggable if you run with -f ..
15:15.21``Erikand with -c, which is what I'm ding
15:15.23``Erikdoing
15:16.01``Erikless mouse action with -c :D
15:32.30``Erikheh
15:33.30``Erikthat's a old but
15:33.31``Erikbug
15:33.45CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: add a break; to the -p option (been missing since the original import from GSI, wow)
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15:43.22brlcadminute: I see you noticed the rate that your backups were growing :)
15:43.36minuteyeah
15:44.05minuteI realised they were pretty pointless since there are other systems in place. So instead I will just run one before everytime I modify the code.
15:44.38brlcadcould add rotation so they don't accumulate, just keep the last few
15:45.27minutePossibly, I am working on a MySql\MediaWiki XML\Files backup system for a different project so once finished with that I will see about using it here or something maybe.
15:46.49CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: dynamically calculate the size that the DMG needs to be (since the 7.10.4 release already surpassed the 250MB barrier) .. and give me at least a minute to find that background image :)
15:46.57brlcadmmm.. I've always wanted to dump out mediawiki content as doxbook xml so it could be stored in CVS
15:47.06brlcadand bidirectionally edited
15:47.42minuteI know MediaWiki can be dumped as XML, but I don't suppose it would be doxbook compatible.
15:48.02brlcadcould be ... :)
15:48.38minuteI'll look into it if you like.
15:48.43minuteTBH it wouldn't be too much difficulty to write a simple parser since it is going to be similar.
15:48.48brlcadthat'd be awesome
15:48.54brlcadyeah, the format is really pretty simple
15:49.19brlcadthere's not really any aspect of mediawiki markup that I can think of that doesn't directly translate to docbook
15:49.29minuteCool, I'll have a look and see if I can find a way.
15:49.57brlcadI know these guys worked out some of the reverse path already for blender
15:49.57brlcadhttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Meta/DocBook_to_Wiki
15:50.32brlcadooh, haven't seen this: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DocBook_XML_export
15:51.09minute"Note: this is a proposal page opened some years ago. No such feature exists in MediaWiki presently."
15:51.33brlcadyeah, though it's pretty much exactly what I'm referring to :)
15:51.43minuteahh
15:52.07minuteWhich DocBook version are you using?
15:52.10brlcadthat coupled with the docbook-to-mediawiki and you'd have an exceptionally powerful round-trip system
15:53.13brlcadi used 4.5 for years as it was the latest stable, but 5.0 is pretty much "done" and usable now
15:53.17brlcadwith some better features
15:53.24brlcadxml version, not the sgml version
15:53.37minuteyeah, sgml is weird
15:54.53minuteHow is LDAP going, btw?
15:55.01brlcadwow, the make_pkg and make_dmg scripts I wrote over a year ago still work pretty much without a hitch
15:55.13minutehehe
15:56.00brlcadit's not gone anywhere since we went into release mode a week and a half ago .. I've been busy building and posting binaries, writing announcements
15:56.17brlcadstill not done, but the release has to go out
15:56.39brlcadldap is still next on my list though
15:56.54minuteahh, ok
15:56.59brlcadit really is the only thing remaining now other than testing the site on IE6 wo/ javascript
15:57.15minuteI'll do that now.
15:57.51minuteOk, it is bad.
15:58.16brlcadyeah, I just kicked it off here.. wow
15:58.35brlcadi must have added some bad css or something
15:59.11minutemm
15:59.18minuteOr IE is just crap ;)
15:59.21minuteAnyway...
15:59.30minuteI'll run it through some validators then take a look at the code.
16:01.13PrezKennedyIE is the best!
16:03.42PrezKennedyits like ive gone to the dark side or something
16:04.44brlcadminute: here's what I see presently: http://my.brlcad.org/tmp/ie6.jpg
16:05.01minuteSame here
16:06.20brlcadnotably, no header images (which actually isn't that bad.. :), and some of the bottom bezel on the boxes are bad (oddly only some), the two incorrectly expanded menu/search sections, the missing upper search bar, and the massive fonts (which I cold probably live with)
16:08.11brlcadweird.. it even got the correct hilight/shadow outline on the bottom search bezel and on the upper menu, but not on the other two...
16:08.40brlcadinteresting because the two that are right, I did "by hand", the other two weren't
16:09.16brlcadmm.. 400MB mac universal binary installer..
16:09.20brlcadbiggest yet
16:10.29``Erikum, since media wiki stores in a mysql database, you could just mysqldump and put the results into RCS or CVS O.o
16:10.40minutewhy?
16:10.54minuteWhat would be the point in that :S
16:11.02``Erikum, small footprint backups?
16:11.06``Erik:D
16:11.16minuteAhh, ok.
16:11.16``Erikthat can be edited and loaded, if necessary
16:11.28brlcadi don't want backups, I want complete bidirectional editing
16:11.29``Eriksorry, talking while catching up, and people keep walking in and asking questions
16:11.35``Erikdump, edit, load
16:11.35``Erik:D
16:11.52minute``Erik: The trouble is passwords, email address, etc.
16:11.57brlcadso I can edit **in a sensible format** with a text editor, or in mediawiki
16:12.19``Erikuse a text editor that can make sql sensible? :> *duck*
16:12.23brlcadediting mysql dumps is not what I'd consider a usable format
16:13.25brlcadnot for your average editing-person at least, docbook is pushing it but it at least has really good semantic structure and rich markup
16:13.48brlcadpretty sure there's already an emacs mode for that ;)
16:14.05minutebrlcad: Is there some sort of caching on your server?
16:14.09``Erikfor editing live sql fields in a running rdbms? O.o
16:14.11``Erikskeery
16:14.21brlcadminute: what do you mean?
16:14.25brlcadfor the website?
16:14.26``Erikyup, emacs is a dandy os, only thing missing is a decent editor O:-)
16:14.28minuteYeah
16:14.40brlcadah, drupal caches results to non-registered users
16:14.41brlcadlog in
16:14.55minutemm
16:14.57``Erikrt matrices are the same order as opengl, right?
16:15.05brlcadthey only get updates once every few hours iirc
16:15.13brlcadit's configurable (and can be turned off while you're testing if you want)
16:15.23minuteAhh, it was chaching in MediaWiki and Drupal.
16:15.24brlcad``Erik: yeah
16:15.25``Erik"C natural" right hand, etc?
16:15.45``Erikopposed to the mathematical "fortran natural", or the abhorrent directx left hand, ... :D
16:15.50brlcaddo you have a solaris build of 7.10.4 on hand anywhere?
16:16.17brlcaddirectx can suck my left-handed nut
16:16.28``Erikum, no, I had a HEAD build from a few weeks ago, um
16:16.35``Erikd'no if a temp reaper ate it
16:16.36brlcaddarn
16:16.55brlcadwidest is being a lil bitch on 7.10.4 for me
16:17.02``Erikhum
16:17.09``Erikusing the GNU toolchain, or the ucb?
16:17.20brlcadgnu
16:17.44brlcadI tried it
16:17.52``Erikno go?
16:18.23brlcadit booted up the install disk, booted solaris with good ol cde and did the install, but then when it was all done installing...
16:18.27brlcadthe installed image wouldn't boot
16:18.42brlcadsome issue finding the disk
16:18.49brlcadprobably parallels-specific
16:19.12brlcaddon't remember what happened with qemu
16:19.21minuteMmm, the code for the website is in a really really bad shape.
16:19.54brlcadminute: html errors?
16:20.12minuteYeah, it is just awful in general. Mainly my fault though.
16:20.30minutes/general/genreal aswell
16:20.43brlcadI helped some I'm sure :)
16:20.51minute:P
16:21.02brlcadi mean, helping making it worse :)
16:21.18minuteYeah
16:21.33brlcadyou're not supposed to agree!
16:21.40minutehehe
16:21.41brlcadj/k
16:22.41brlcadthe more I got into the css, the more I realized that it wasn't quite set up to work well with drupal's theming and content management
16:23.02brlcadbut! .. it does/did work, so it's something
16:23.10``Erikhttp://validator.w3.org/   http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
16:23.13``Erikteh yayz
16:24.08brlcad7 errors and 98 warnings
16:24.09minutesure
16:24.37brlcadlooks like one might even be a typo in the .css file
16:25.12brlcader, three of them even
16:25.28brlcadthat's probably why ie6 is throwing a fit
16:25.29PrezKennedybrlcad, the construction company im contracted out to is doing the APG 715 Gate upgrade
16:25.40brlcadnifty
16:25.56minuteNon the less a small rewrite would be nice.
16:26.36brlcadyeah, would tighten up the css, could remove the fluff that's not needed any more
16:26.44brlcadlots of duplication in there now
16:26.45minuteAnd that PHP...
16:26.52minuteYUCK is an understatement.
16:27.03brlcadespecially now that the "look" is pretty much settled now
16:27.57minuteAlso I need to figure out some way to integrate the skin with gallery2, but gallery2 uses crappy TPL.
16:28.10brlcadyou have a pretty decent integration going now I thought
16:28.23brlcadone style that applied to both nicely
16:28.24minuteWith what?
16:28.27minuteyeah
16:28.31brlcadgood separation of the header, footer, etc
16:28.35minuteahh
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16:30.09minuteThe thing that is making this really tedious is the fact that I can't use Notepad++ or Notepad2 while editing the site due to the sudoing thing - I wish there was a way to fix that.
16:30.21minuteWell, not fix as such.
16:30.37brlcadhowso?
16:30.43brlcadsudo -u www -s
16:30.52minuteBut that doesn't work with SFTP.
16:31.00brlcadahh
16:31.26brlcadhm, well if your umask is set, can just upload as you
16:31.39minutehmm
16:31.45minuteMaybe there is a way afterall.
16:32.33brlcadtry now, fixed the mode on all the files so group perms work
16:32.46brlcada bunch were 622
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16:33.56minuteOh wow.
16:33.57minuteIt works.
16:33.59minuteThanks!
16:36.48minuteNope
16:37.20minutehmm
16:39.05minutebrlcad: Are you doing anything to the site ATM?
16:49.11minuteTotal rewrite it is, then.
16:49.19minuteCould be worse.
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18:05.44CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fchmod.c: Initial check-in.
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18:55.14CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/prep.c: rt_unprep() was using paths (i.e. a struct bu_ptbl) without being initialized. In fact, paths is never initialized. I'm guessing the intent was to use objs->paths.
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19:10.42CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/fbserv_obj.h: The fbsl_fd and fbsc_fd member types should be int.
19:14.35CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: If windows call closesocket() instead of close().
19:16.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged_dm.h: The c_fd of struct client should be int.
19:17.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/rtif.c: Using bu_fchmod() instead of fchmod.
19:17.58brlcadminute-ssh: not doing anything with the site atm
19:18.03brlcadnor back when you asked :)
19:19.19brlcadlemme know if you have other permission problems, I just made you the owner of all the files
19:19.24brlcad(all the skin files)
19:20.56CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: No longer calling close() in drop_client() because the call to pkg_close() already does this.
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19:26.31CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (archer/Archer.tcl lib/RtControl.tcl): Apparently Itk's Toplevel widget now wants the -menu option directly.
19:30.12CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob found/fixed a memory deallocation bug in the raytracers
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19:33.43brlcadMinuteElectron: lemme know if you need me to repeat what I'd said about the site :)
19:34.10MinuteElectronStill in my scrollback, but I am currently rewriting the skin thing so it might be gone later.
19:34.33brlcadokay, just said "no, not doing anything" and that you now own the files
19:34.47brlcadlemme know if you have any other permission problems
19:35.05MinuteElectronAhh, so you saw the mess I got myself into then?
19:35.05brlcadthat shouldn't ever be a "problem" .. what is in place just works well for other projects
19:35.23MinuteElectronYeah
19:35.38MinuteElectronI think I have worked out how the system works now.
19:35.40brlcadno, I hadn't
19:35.45MinuteElectronOh, ok.
19:35.46MinuteElectronnm
19:35.47brlcadjust your comments
19:35.51MinuteElectronok
19:36.37CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/do.c: Using bu_fchmod() instead of fchmod().
19:40.17CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libregex/regerror.c: Reformat regerror() slightly.
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19:43.02CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/png.h: Mods to expose png_read_destroy() and png_write_destroy().
19:44.38CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: Update to 4.0.2
19:49.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: If windows call closesocket() instead of close(). Mods to use PKG_SEND with the proper number of parameters. Mods to have pkg_open() return the correct type on error.
19:50.58CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (fb-pix.c fb-png.c): Using bu_fchmod() instead of fchmod().
19:57.27CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/generic/tkFileFilter.c: Initialize a few variables.
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20:00.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/ (tclExecute.c tclInt.h tclIntDecls.h): Miscellaneous mods for compiling on Windows.
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20:30.00IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/haha.png   :)
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20:50.55IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/mysystem.png  <----- louipc this ones what im running
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21:01.48minuteIriX64: Ultimate?
21:01.51minuteDid you buy that yourself?
21:02.07minuteAnd on 895MB of RAM, woah.
21:11.01``Erikyeah, it was released after penultimate
21:20.54IriX64paid good money for this thing, it's damn well gonna do what I want :)
21:21.27IriX641gig of ram, the cheesy motherboard steals 128 meg for the onboard video :(
21:22.13IriX64how to speed up windoze, throw memory and money at it :)
21:23.50dtidrow_workyep
21:24.30IriX64it's building brlcad7.10.4 even as we speak though
21:24.49brlcadyou should make an installation tarball for 7.10.4 so others can try it out
21:24.55brlcad(for cygwin)
21:25.15IriX64just the binaries you mean?
21:25.39IriX64id have to include the dll's but it could be done
21:25.58brlcadwhatever is needed so that it runs
21:25.58IriX64if i get it to compile ill do that
21:26.04brlcada binary distribution
21:26.07IriX64ill try
21:26.08brlcadfor cygwin users
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21:26.28brlcador for windows users for that matter if it doesn't require cygwin itself
21:26.41IriX64if they have their xwin running itll work
21:27.42IriX64-march=i486 :)
21:28.02IriX64or pentium
21:28.50IriX64gotta go shave, wife keeps nagging me, bbiab :)
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21:29.54starseekerHeh - got a helpful email from one of the Gentoo devs - they apparently REALLY don't like using /opt
21:31.08starseekerbrlcad:  Do you know who maintains the FreeBSD port?
21:31.10``Erikyeah, they are a whiney lot :D
21:31.11``Erikme
21:31.22starseekerwhere are you installing to?
21:31.28``Erik/usr/local/brlcad
21:31.36starseekerAh.
21:31.57``Erikhas for a long long long time
21:32.33brlcadat least ports uses /usr/local by default
21:32.37starseekerInteresting
21:32.48``Erikyeah, you can override PREFIX to point to where you want
21:32.55``Eriklike /opt if you want the sysV style
21:32.58brlcadbut hardly anyone does
21:33.13``Erik/usr/X11R6 and /usr/Xorg went away, too, it's now all in /usr/local
21:33.17starseekerGentoo dev suggested using /usr/lib/brlcad for everything and then symlinking the binaries into /usr/bin
21:33.25``Erikheh
21:33.28brlcadinteresting
21:33.38``Erikcuz they'd really love having stuff like /usr/bin/wall ?
21:33.39``Erik:D
21:33.47brlcadwall's gone now :)
21:33.57``Erikin head... as of this morning...
21:34.02brlcadas of last night
21:34.04``Erikor yesterday... O.o something, heh
21:35.04brlcad/usr/lib/brlcad is just as good a root as any if they don't mind the symlinks and if it preserves/isolates needing to rename things
21:35.09starseekerHe also suggests forcing the use of system libs rather than having configure figure it out... sigh.
21:35.10``Erik<PROTECTED>
21:35.29``Erikdo they provide tcl8.5a6 ?
21:35.34starseekerbrlcad:  I guess I'll try that - they seem to have a bee in their bonnet about opt
21:35.38brlcadstarseeker: forcing it to use system libs is also not a problem "--disable-all"
21:35.50starseekerExcept their tcl 8.5 ebuild is masked
21:36.03``Erikdebian doesn't have an 8.5 in testing, :/
21:36.09brlcadso brl-cad will be masked until it's complete
21:36.15brlcador make it use 8.4
21:36.19brlcadwith a patch
21:36.33brlcadthough louipc seemed to indicate it didn't even need a patch
21:36.56brlcadnot sure I believe it didn't really need a patch for everything to work, but if mged comes up, then good enough
21:37.40starseekerReally?
21:38.18brlcadyeah, code-wise 8.4 works for us just as well
21:38.35brlcad8.5 was needed for updates for a specific platform features (aquatk)
21:38.51starseekerHmm.  Will the configure script in 7.10.4 give it a try with 8.4, or does that need patching?
21:39.05brlcadhindsight 20/20 and all, it's taken way longer than expected (both for tcl and for that need)
21:39.14starseekerheh
21:39.42brlcadmmmm.. it'll need patching to search for tcl8.4
21:39.52starseekerOK
21:39.53brlcadbut literally just like 4 lines
21:40.05brlcadhead has those lines already
21:40.22brlcadinteresting.. simcity in tcl/tk
21:40.37``Erik*shudder*
21:40.43starseekerThat should be a simple patch.
21:40.52``Erikwhich simcity? the first one (on the c64) was pretty fun
21:40.57brlcadhttp://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/24
21:41.24brlcadapparently maxis is giving the game to OLPC
21:41.34``Eriknify
21:41.38``Eriks/f/ft/
21:53.27``Erikheh
21:53.56starseekerCool :-)
21:54.58bpooleAnyone here read xkcd?
21:55.03``Erikdaily.
21:55.05starseekerthey're suggesting additional ebuilds be created for libs currently not in portage - given the trouble I've seen in the past getting ebuilds accepted, you'd think that it would be easier to have just one...
21:55.09bpooleI'm seeing him talk tomorrow :)
21:55.13brlcad``Erik: prefix of /usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4 ?
21:55.14``Erikcool
21:55.23``Erikno, default prefix
21:55.50``Erikbut I found where SOMEONE (won't mention his name, but he sits downstairs and lifts weights) broke it :D
21:57.10``ErikO.o
21:57.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libfb needs libsocket and libnsl on solaris
22:00.01``Erikheh, and I fudged the commit message, go figure :D
22:00.21CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: MFC to pick up solaris fix
22:03.35PrezKennedyyou guys still hanging out in the WW3 buildings?
22:06.50CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: testing
22:13.35``Erikya even going to try an irix release?
22:14.30``Erikwith a 7.10.4 solaris on its way, and supposedly a windows release, the only thing that won't have a 7.10.4 binary is irix... we could have binaries across the board
22:29.34starseekerMrf.  Gentoo has by default itcl and itk 3.3, but it looks like the configure script doesn't see them.  Arrgh.
22:30.46starseekerInteresting - it finds itcl.h, but doesn't see  Itcl_Init
22:48.17brlcadyou have to patch up tcl, tk, tclstubs, and tkstubs
22:48.55brlcadand maybe specifically patch out the -I includes for the src/other/tcl|tk flags
22:49.13brlcadotherwise it'll pick up a specific version number and incrtcl won't allow 8.4
22:49.47``Erik(in nmg now, btw)
22:49.48brlcadcould be, should be
22:49.52brlcadheh
22:49.58brlcadso you got a good hour to go
22:50.24brlcadmaybe less, that's like half-way or 2/3rds
22:50.34``Erikguess it gets uploaded on tuesday :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071109

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071109

00:14.44*** join/#brlcad Supaplex_ (i=supaplex@166-70-62-194.ip.xmission.com)
00:17.15CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
00:17.17CIA-27BRL-CAD: the Framebuffer -> Rectangle Area option doesn't seem to work, at least on Mac
00:17.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: OS X. it turns disables the embedded framebuffer display (with ogl or X)
00:17.21CIA-27BRL-CAD: instead of just showing the rect. otherwise it does render the rect correctly
00:17.23CIA-27BRL-CAD: and displays if you turn it back to Framebuffer -> All
00:40.13brlcad~``Erik++
00:40.40brlcadthe new kernel booted up like a charm, awesomeness
00:40.48brlcadf'ing awesome
02:38.05``Erikswank
02:38.17``Erikum
02:38.32``Erikon my personal machines
02:38.53``ErikI keep half an eye on the changes to stable, and if one looks important, I'll go through and do the world/kernel/mergemaster cycle
02:38.58``Erikbut won't reboot
02:39.15``Erikunless it's seriously critical (like, in security, major threshhold)
02:39.26``Erikotherwise, wait for a 'natural event' to reboot it (crash, power outage, etc)
02:40.24``Eriksince this machine is on site ups with generators, the power outage shouldn't be an issue... and crashes are super-rare on stable... you might wanna schedule reboots when you feel the security impact is worth it
02:41.12``Erik(that's right, I'm not a fan of regularly scheduled reboots for patches, I prefer competent administrators who can make informed decisions)
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02:44.19IriX64edit /tk/unix/makefile to use tkUnixFont instead of tkUnixRFont and bwish makes now, jury's still out on the rest though
02:44.48IriX64this is on 7.10.4
02:45.59IriX64mged still blows up....sigh
03:09.54IriX64don't think it's your problem though :)
03:41.32brlcadsounds good to me
03:43.03brlcadit'd have to be a pressing issue (like security) though for the most part, I prefer the uninterrupted uptime unless there's some actualized benefit to be gained
03:43.27brlcadhopefully break the 400 day uptime record :)
03:47.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add fchmod.c to the build and dist
04:48.13CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/points/points_scan.l: declare extern YYSTYPE yylval to appease the files generated from flex+byacc on stock freebsd 6.3
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06:47.05PrezKennedyi had to reboot after 50 cuz of a Windows Update
06:47.20PrezKennedysame league... definitely :-P
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13:21.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: Added an entry for win32-msvc8
13:23.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Initial check-in.
13:26.26CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/configure.ac: Added an entry for win32-msvc8
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21:07.18CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (btclsh/btclsh.vcproj bwish/bwish.vcproj): Initial check-in.
21:09.50CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (consoleMain.c winMain.c unixMain.c cadAppInit.c): Initial check-in.
21:33.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Archer now depends on bwish.
21:35.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/blt.h: Mods for Windows port.
21:37.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/LoadArcherLibs.tcl: Archer now depends on bwish so this script gets simplified.
21:42.01CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/bltVecMath.c: Temporary hack for compiling on Windows.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071110

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071110

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15:11.48CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: make tclcad_tcl_library() print the path if we're in debug mode, otherwise have it ensure that the library path is actually set (via TclSetLibraryPath() if needed). clean up and remove some of the win32ness
15:28.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/tcl.c: just say it failed -- the actual error should already be printed by the init routine
15:32.27CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: (log message trimmed)
15:32.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: yet another restructuring of the init routine. give Tcl_Init() a chance to work
15:32.31CIA-27BRL-CAD: before calling tclcad_auto_path() so that we don't end up trying to force the
15:32.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: init.tcl that is provided in the source distribution. if there's a system tcl
15:32.35CIA-27BRL-CAD: being used, it will gawk at trying to load the wrong init script. this goes
15:32.39CIA-27BRL-CAD: even further such that we keep track of which packages init properly and only
15:32.41CIA-27BRL-CAD: call tclcad_auto_path() if one of them fail (or when we get to the brl-cad lib
15:37.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c: drop the disabled code for setting PATH. we can/should now locate execable items individually via bu_brlcad_root instead of relying on PATH.
15:43.41CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: a few too many results reset
15:48.51CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
15:48.53CIA-27BRL-CAD: add a similar new two-pass initialization approach that bwish/btclsh are now
15:48.55CIA-27BRL-CAD: using such that tclcad_auto_path is only called if one of the init routines
15:48.57CIA-27BRL-CAD: actually fails. this helps ensure that we can use a system tcl (though doesn't
15:48.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: take care of itcl loading/version problems). make the error printing a little
15:49.01CIA-27BRL-CAD: more consistent as well.
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19:32.31CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: make tclcad_tcl_library take an interp
19:43.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt:
19:43.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: make a note that the various *_version variables are all now *_version()
19:43.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: functions now since 7.10.2 even though the globals were never intended for
19:43.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: external use (they were in headers merely for compilation convenience as they
19:43.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: were used across directories in multiple files). additionally added, but not
19:43.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: commented is the 'new' brlcad_version() function which isn't as library-specific
19:43.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: as the other variables.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071111

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071111

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12:25.11xgmxhi
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13:21.09ertugeratahi ; salut
13:22.44ertugeratamged error : need Tcl 8.5 ? i have 8.5b2
13:23.40ertugerataTcl 8.5 in source brlcd ?
13:32.35ertugerataTcl 8.5 in source brlcad ?
13:34.02ertugerataItcl_Init error version conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.5b2, need exactly 8.5
13:34.02ertugerataTcl_Import error unknown namespace in import pattern "::itcl::*"
14:05.31brlcadertugerata: that is one of the errors I'm looking at right now.  itcl has directives that make it want a *specific* version of tcl making it really hard to use a system tcl
14:07.02ertugeratasystem itcl and system tcl my opts
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20:22.24ertugeratahi ; salut
20:22.57ertugeratabrlcad i have mged problems with Tcl and itcl
20:56.23tarzeauElapsed installation time: 1 hour, 51 minutes, 3 seconds
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21:37.13ertugeratabrlcad: in source version itcl ?
21:41.26yukonbobertugerata: what OS are you using?
21:45.06ertugeratalinux, pardus distro
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21:52.22yukonbob?pardus ... /me looks this up...
21:53.39ertugeratawww.pardus.org.tr
21:53.39yukonbobdoes PiSi offer itcl?
21:53.55ertugeratayes
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21:54.00ertugeratain contrib depo
21:54.40ertugeratai m first packager de itcl
21:57.58ertugeratayukonbob: distro ?
21:58.45yukonbobnetbsd, but it doesn't matter what distro you use as long as you get your packages to work within the constraints you have --ie: if debian, use dpkg to fix your system up; if redhat, use the RPMs, etc. etc.
22:00.59yukonbobI'm using tcl/tk 8.4 too, btw -- I'd encourage anybody who's curious enough to try the same -- tcl/tk 8.4.x is the latest non-beta tcl, and is far more widely distributed than 8.5... not to mention that there's much more software built against 8.4 than 8.5, so one may have requirements to have 8.4 on the system anyway...
22:02.55``Erikhrm, any issues with using 84?
22:03.06yukonbobnot that I've encountered so far
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22:07.32yukonbobit's _infinately_ better in my situation -- I use tcl/tk for my work, so I've got an interest in having a working, supported tcl/tk, and 8.4.x is the one that qualifies in that regard... I never really even got 8.5 to install the way I wanted on my system anyway... and I want to utilize my package management as much as possible -- 8.4 is supported, as well as many, many extensions... 8.5, not so much. (and installing so much "cruft" under the guise of
22:08.03yukonbob)
22:09.29``Erikheh, 85 is still in 'beta', *shrug*
22:09.41yukonbobindeed -- and for good reason.
22:09.43``ErikI might rework the fbsd package to use tcl84
22:10.08``Erik<-- hasn't had issue with tcl85 yet... works dandy both from the src build in BRL-CAD and the port
22:10.38``Erikbut if I can easily use the itcl, itk, and blt from ports in my port, ... so much better
22:11.12yukonbobI'd be happy if you did, and glad to help you if required -- I think tcl/tk 8.4 is too valuable to drop support for, and 8.5 too 'beta' and new to be the sole provider of tcl/tk -- I'd hate for development to slowly move to where tcl/tk 8.5 features exclude 8.4, requiring 3rd party patching, or worse, completely shutting 8.4 out of the picture...
22:13.11yukonbobiirc, the reason for moving to 8.5 was better Mac support, but I'm not sure what that means -- do you know?
22:13.20yukonbob``Erik: ^--- directed at you
22:13.20``Erikum, yeah
22:13.21``Erikuh
22:13.24``Erikaqua-tk
22:13.49``Eriktk85 has 'native' widget support for mac, tk84 faked it through the X layer iirc
22:13.52``Erikso it was... well.. fugly
22:13.58``Erikand rquires x11.app running
22:14.52``Erik<-- not sure...
22:14.53``Erikum
22:15.11``Erikbrlcad and, u, joevalleywhatever his nick is... tim... those wer ethe two pushing it
22:15.24``ErikI sit at mac's, but I do all my WORK on fbsd boxes
22:15.43yukonbob(using tcl/tk shipped w/ Mac, no less)
22:15.51``Erikhum
22:16.00yukonbob^--- years ago -- well before 8.5
22:16.47``Erik<-- not a tcl/tk guy... has done a tiny bit of eggdrop scripting, looked at some BRL-CAD shit.... that's it
22:16.57yukonbobtcl 8.4.16 is even still improving Mac support...
22:17.13``Erikplop me down with scheme or lisp, ruby, ... smalltalk, ... haskell, ocaml, erlang, ... I'm there, yo
22:17.35``Erikeven stuff like lua and python, if I have to
22:18.02yukonbob``Erik: what scheme is your favourite?
22:19.12``Erikum, depends on the task
22:19.16``ErikI like gauche for a lot of stuff
22:19.18yukonbobexample?
22:19.33``Erikgauche is a heavy hitter for things that deal with the OS
22:19.56``Erikbut it's gc is kinda weak (uses boehm) and it not the best for heavy crunch (but it's good)
22:20.43``Erikchicken and, uh,
22:20.58``Erikboehm is a conservative C garbage collector
22:21.14``Erikit's not generational, it's not compacting, it's not ... a lot of things
22:21.23``Erikjava's gc stomps boehm
22:21.46``Erikdon't waste time with guile unless you have to, um
22:22.30``Erikbigloo is another 'native code' scheme that's ok... sisc if you're in a jvm... s48 has a solid following
22:22.59``ErikI found that guile was an order of magnitude slower than the 'ok' thchemeth
22:23.19yukonbobthis conversation illustrates the strength and weakness of "scheme" -- because there's no cannonical implementation...
22:23.34``Erikis there a canonical implementation of C?
22:23.36``Erikor c++?
22:23.56``ErikI think that's a strength *shrug* as long as the implementations follow the spec, and the spec is followed by the coder
22:24.04yukonbobit seems less perverted than scheme to me, but perhaps I haven't dug deep enough...
22:24.33``Erikscheme is a bit odd in that it specifically aims for minimalism
22:24.54yukonbobheh -- s/scheme/r5rs/ some might argue
22:24.58``Erikheh
22:25.04``Erikr6 is coming p
22:25.12yukonbobr6 is already ratified
22:25.24``Erikthe srfi's are good, but not part of the core
22:25.26yukonboband chicken, for example have said "fsck that"
22:25.40``Erikheh, most impl's don't even do all of r5 :(
22:25.45``Eriksome "big" ones aren't even r4
22:26.41yukonboboh well -- maybe chicken et al will become wicked r5 implementations, and r7 will be more "schemey" so more people are happy...
22:26.47``Erikcorrect tail call elimination and continuations (at the same time!) are tricky
22:35.25yukonbobheh -- alfa male
22:44.47IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/havoc5.png :)
22:45.58yukonbobhow many hits you getting IriX64?
22:46.33IriX64?
22:46.37IriX64on the site, man its a sympatico server
22:52.01IriX64yukonbob, does firefox see it all right?
23:00.51yukonbobIriX64: /me doesn't look at havoc pictures any more...
23:01.40IriX64give me some of yours :)
23:02.09IriX64the g files
23:03.16yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png
23:04.40IriX64prettiest wheel iv'e ever seen.
23:04.57IriX64do you have the whole bike?
23:05.17louipcI've gotten weary of desktop screenshots :p
23:05.30IriX64heh yea me too
23:05.50IriX64the attraction there was brlcad, screw the desktop
23:05.56louipcI need to start modelling stuff dangit
23:06.05yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png
23:06.12IriX64i don't i just use the examples
23:06.16louipcwell, just provide the render, not the desktop
23:07.09IriX64ill try and yukonbob you actually work with this don't you, it shows
23:07.46yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/vid/video.flv
23:08.04yukonbob^--- POVRay, not BRL-CAD
23:08.55IriX64can't open a flv file here sorry
23:09.41IriX64what do i need to look at that, POVRay?
23:10.11louipcit's flash video
23:10.15louipcmplayer...
23:10.35IriX64unix thing? or does it exist for windows?
23:10.51yukonbobtry http://www.methodlogic.net/flat/vid/
23:11.43IriX64that i saw
23:11.51yukonbob?shows up
23:11.56IriX64yes
23:12.47yukonbobfsck qt is teh p1g
23:13.29IriX64?
23:14.56louipcsorry
23:15.45yukonbobindeed.
23:24.25yukonbobIriX64: re: whole bike -- not yet -- when I started there was a problem w/ rotating pipes in BRL-CAD -- (since resolved, I believe)... however, haven't re-attacked yet...
23:26.42yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/houseray.png
23:31.04yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/housecomp.png
23:37.32IriX64makes me wish i could draw, but i'm happy just fiddling with stuff
23:37.38yukonbobMy work is no havoc, but at least it's not a havoc.
23:37.47IriX64heh yea
23:39.26yukonbobIriX64: if you can take some graph paper and make a plan, then translate that into the mged commands, you're laughing -- if you can see patterns then get tcl (a language so easy it's almost embarassing) to do them for you, then you get bicycle wheels and precise roofs.
23:40.45IriX64i had trouble drawing a sine wave yukonbob :)
23:40.45yukonbobthen you can move to helping starseeker do his Apollo project...
23:41.13yukonbobIriX64: let the computer do the work for you...
23:41.52yukonbobgah -- QT is still building -- /me wonders if this is worth the "effort"
23:41.57IriX64still need to know what you're doing, i just fiddle, never took much to documentation :)
23:42.08yukonbobwell -- can't help you there...
23:42.20IriX64heh ill call if you can :)
23:42.53*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.114.119)
23:43.07yukonbobThe King, Alice in Wonderland: "Start at the beginning, continue to the end, then stop."
23:43.15IriX64time to pull another raid on cvs.
23:43.38IriX64prefer mucking around with code
23:44.42yukonbobIriX64: want a task? Try getting your windows box running BRL-CAD with independant installations of tcl/tk 8.4 with supporting libs (blt, itcl, etc).
23:45.22yukonbobkeep notes, and keep me in the loop wrt your progress...
23:45.50IriX64my windows box, has a hard enough time compiling the stuff it's *supposed to compile
23:47.11yukonbob?so wtf do you keep trying to recompile BRL-CAD (I'm _really_ curious)
23:47.43IriX64trying to stay current thats all
23:47.54yukonbob...stay current, and then not use it?
23:48.24yukonbobare you following -current, or 7.10.4?
23:48.30IriX64hoping eventually to provide cygwin compiles and all thats needed to run it on a windows box
23:48.35IriX64both
23:50.07yukonbobwell, if you want to help a project I've adopted, consider playing w/ tcl/tk 8.4 etc. Get that stuff on your machine, and exclude it from the BRL-CAD build, having the build use the already-installed versions you've got...
23:51.38IriX64might try that ive already got tcl/tk8.4.6
23:52.09IriX64http://rafb.net/p/hwYhxt94.html  <--- the 1's were added by me cause this thing conflicts with libbu
23:52.40yukonbobnice -- though 8.4.6 is a bit old in the 8.4 series -- 8.4.16 is the latest, released week/two ago...
23:52.54IriX64where please?
23:53.59yukonbobhttp://tcl.sourceforge.net/
23:59.54tarzeaui've made debian packages of brlcad
23:59.59tarzeau(finally, and it even works)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071112

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071112

00:00.05yukonbob!nice
00:00.08tarzeaunow i see ./misc/debian ... ouf
00:00.16tarzeauanyone wants to try?
00:00.25yukonboblink?
00:00.27tarzeauwhere can i find some example .g files to load?
00:00.32tarzeaugnu.ethz.ch/debian/brlcad/
00:01.13yukonbobshare/db/truck.g
00:01.24yukonbobetc.
00:01.36tarzeauit's a bit slow remotely, installing it locally
00:02.03yukonbobyou're running via remote DISPLAY?
00:02.09tarzeauyes
00:02.13tarzeauit wasn't that bad
00:02.22yukonbobover LAN, or further?
00:02.27tarzeaui've got 100mbit/gbit at work.. and 1mbit at home
00:03.27tarzeauis erik greenwald in here?
00:03.53yukonbobthat'd be ``Erik
00:04.00tarzeau``Erik: hey :)
00:04.16tarzeauwho creates the tarballs on sf.net ?
00:04.36yukonbobprolly ``Erik and/or brlcad (Sean)
00:11.17tarzeaui did load truck.g
00:11.29tarzeaubut i only see it as a little yellow dot, very very far away
00:11.42tarzeauwhere do i buy the binoculars?
00:13.41louipcI think it's mouse button 1
00:13.59IriX64other way button 3:)
00:14.54tarzeaui only see one pixel
00:15.02tarzeaumaybe i need to study the documentation
00:15.45tarzeaudoes mged call one of its 400 binaries often?
00:16.01tarzeauPATH=/usr/lib/brlcad:$PATH /usr/lib/brlcad/mged
00:16.11tarzeaui launch it like this, with all it's binaries put in /usr/lib/brlcad/
00:20.31IriX64http://rafb.net/p/jH6IkN49.html <---- yukonbob, pffft i have less trouble with tk8.4.6, not gonna tackle this one :)
00:24.14yukonbobtarzeau: "tops" to see toplevel "objects", "e <toplevel obj name>" to display it...
00:26.34tarzeaui did e g2 in truck.g and now a red square appeared
00:26.37tarzeaua red box
00:26.54tarzeauah and lmb/smb zoom in/out
00:27.06tarzeauI CAN SEE THE TRUCK
00:27.09tarzeauwith e g4
00:27.37tarzeauKICK ASS
00:27.41tarzeaua truck!
00:31.16tarzeauhaha toyjeep, pink jeep
00:36.39tarzeau/usr/bin/rt: No such file or directory
00:36.48tarzeauhmm i got to tell it to not use full paths :(
00:37.02tarzeauor even better, i tell it where to install at install time i guess
00:37.08tarzeauoh wait :(
00:59.10louipchehe
01:16.10``Erikusually brlcad for the source tarball and mac dmg, I do the fbsd tbz's and usually hte solaris image
01:17.39``Erikthe two "hot" models to check out are the m35 and the havoc
01:18.03``Erikmoss is good for a newbie to look at, too
02:10.59tarzeaui looked at havoc
02:11.02tarzeaugotta check m35
02:11.30tarzeauwould it be possible    to not ship blt lib with the tarball?
02:22.48``Erikit's part of the src tarball, but if you have an acceptable version installed, BRL-CAD SHOULD used the installed version...
02:26.40tarzeaui do, i've used also --disable-bltstuff
02:32.43``Erikand it still tries to build blt?
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17:15.38brlcadyukonbob: just so you know, I am working to make the mods necessary so either 8.4 or 8.5 will work, but it's a bit tricky due to various pathing issues (particularly when you support arbitrary combinations of extensions enabled/disabled)
17:15.56*** join/#brlcad bob` (n=bob@static-71-240-124-130.pitbpa.east.verizon.net)
17:16.10brlcad8.4's aquatk frankly "sucks" .. heavily broken in areas we need
17:19.00brlcadyukonbob: interesting hub -- was that rendered with pov?
17:26.56brlcadtarzeau: I usually create them -- if you see anything that needs fixing, lemme know
17:31.56brlcaditems are disable/enabled via the various --enable-*-build --disable-*-build options (see the --help list and/or INSTALL) .. configure will auto-disable by default if it detects a system-installed version
18:38.35*** join/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@81.213.72.50)
18:38.55ertugeratasalut , hi
18:40.07yukonbobbrlcad: re: hub -- not BRL-CAD
18:41.43ertugeratayukonbob: hi
18:41.48yukonbobhey ertugerata
18:42.07ertugeratatu parle français ?
18:42.18yukonbobun peux, mais pas bien
18:42.47ertugeratayukonbob: mon ami a une patche pour brlcad avec new tcl
18:43.02yukonbob8.5
18:43.18yukonbob?
18:43.18ertugeratapour 8.5b2
18:43.43yukonbobet, le patch fait quoi?
18:44.08ertugeratahttp://svn.pardus.org.tr/contrib/applications/science/brlcad/files/
18:44.29yukonbobbrlcad: s/not BRL-CAD/no, BRL-CAD/ (ie: it _was_ done w/ brlcad ;)
18:44.47ertugeratapatch pour configure.ac et new tcl
18:45.07ertugerataje peux voir comment in netbsd build brlcad ?
18:47.52yukonbob(je voir les programmes, un moment svp)
18:48.08ertugerataok
18:52.19yukonbobertugerata: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/df7b56e2
18:53.41ertugerataton system a tcl8.4
18:53.48yukonboboiu
18:53.50yukonboboui
18:54.21yukonbobles changes pour 8.4 sur NetBSD -- je pense que les plus est pour 8.4, peut etre tout...
18:54.33yukonbobet...
18:54.45ertugeratain netbsd comme gentoo vous compile le programme ?
18:54.57ertugeratail n'ya pas package system ?
18:58.31yukonbobnon -- mais ca c'est le method que je utilize
18:58.49yukonbobil y a pkgsrc (src) et pkg_add, etc. (binary)
18:59.00yukonbobhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d37cb80c3
18:59.27yukonbob^-- arguments pour ./configure
18:59.35*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-71-40.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:00.25ertugeratayukonbob: vous avez urt itck itcl separed
19:00.57yukonboboui -- avec pkgsrc...
19:01.15ertugerataquel e leur version ?
19:01.25yukonbobde les tout?
19:01.48ertugeratano itck itcl et urt version seul
19:01.53yukonbobah...
19:02.39yukonbobtcl-itcl-current-20040920nb4 <-- itcl et itk...
19:02.58yukonboburt-3.1b1nb8
19:03.23yukonbob"nb[numero]" est pour NetBSD
19:03.26ertugeratamy urt 3.1b
19:03.40ertugerataitk and itcl cvs
19:04.03yukonbobet quel age est les files?
19:08.51ertugerata20071111
19:08.59yukonbobbrlcad: re: 8.4/8.5 -- really nice to hear -- when I was talking about my experiences w/ MacOS/Tcl, I wasn't viewing the results Tk's rendering with a microscope (and in fact, I was still primarily developing for X11 (_and_ in fact, don't put too much time pining for a better-looking UI than even X11 ;))
19:09.04yukonbobertugerata: !
19:09.50yukonbobje va faire un nouveau pkg pour moi ;)
19:10.58yukonbobbrlcad: so if you say that in your experience AquaTk is teh suX0r compared to what one would get w/ a native MacOS (holding it to high standards), I don't doubt...
19:11.34yukonbobbrlcad: have you seen: http://wiki.tcl.tk/13734 ... does it help in anyway?
19:14.46yukonbobsoo -- maybe the substandard rendering is a combination of Tcl implementation, as well as the Mac APIs doing their best to make all things look Aqua (even w/ the "old" Carbon API)?
19:18.32yukonbobhttp://developer.apple.com/macosx/architecture/index.html suggests different re: purposes of Carbon/Cocoa...
19:23.37yukonbobhttp://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/mac/2001/05/23/cocoa_vs_carbon.html however, suggests Carbon is indeed for porting older code, and Cocoa is the new hotness
19:28.18brlcadyukonbob: re: hub -- ah, didn't think so :) thx  looked too much like opengl raster render
19:29.06brlcader, so it is a brl-cad model .. is that an rt render??
19:32.37yukonbobbrlcad: re: rt -- indeed it is...
19:32.59brlcadweird...
19:33.17brlcadthe blends done with torii?
19:34.30*** join/#brlcad ulusoy (n=ulusoy@81.214.93.222)
19:34.49ulusoyhi
19:35.25brlcadyukonbob: fyi, --with-ogl=no with --without-opengl is redundant
19:35.34brlcadhowdy ulusoy
19:36.17ulusoyi install brlcad on my pc a few minutes ago.
19:36.24brlcadalso if you end up simply wanting to disable everything, there's a --disable-all flag
19:36.51brlcad(shorthand for --disable-almost-everything-build, see INSTALL for other aliases)
19:37.02brlcadulusoy: great
19:37.25brlcaddocs are on http://brlcad.org and "mged" is probably where you want to start -- the docs and tutorials are pretty much required reading ;)
19:37.54ulusoythanks.
19:38.04ulusoyi need  them
19:38.53brlcadyukonbob: and we're not pining for the better-looking UI -- the vast majority simply don't know what X11 is or how to use it (lot of support requests where they don't even have it installed)
19:39.12brlcadnot so much that AquaTk sucks -- if the port is "complete" then it won't suck
19:39.43yukonbobbrlcad: re: ogl -- ya -- but I got two messages about how to do it, so just covered my *ss and put both ;) -- are they both valid? So either one of them will work?
19:39.48brlcadit's just simply incomplete in 8.4, lots of basic things not yet working -- that's where 8.5 is considerably better where dozens of bugs were fixed
19:40.02brlcadyukonbob: yeah, both are valid
19:40.04yukonbobbrlcad: re: blends -- yes, iirc
19:40.24brlcadour configure has a slew of aliases for each command for those "in the know" that just want to type less
19:40.37brlcadINSTALL should list them all, and of course there's always --help
19:40.58yukonbobre: blends -- there are blends from hub-edge to body (tubular middle section), as well as the fluted spoke-holes, which also use the *interior* of a torus
19:41.01brlcadalas, help doesn't list the aliases, but it'd be way too long if it did
19:41.15yukonbob:)
19:41.30yukonbobbrlcad: how are you doing -- haven't chatted in a while...
19:41.42brlcadbusy bee, but doing great
19:41.56brlcadpreparing the release took a lot of time/energy
19:42.01brlcadstill have to write up the release notes
19:43.47ulusoyo ne
19:43.49brlcadthat oreilly article isn't entirely true fwiw -- both carbon and cocoa are established with their purposes
19:43.54ulusoyim sorry
19:44.30yukonbobhey -- are you interested in the playing/work I've done w/ 8.4 -- if there's anything you want (and a certain format to get it to you) let me know... perhaps I'll just get a report of my build env., methods and patches and send it your way, in case there's something useful either for you (or other devs), or other hax0r5 who want to get more comfortable w/ the distribution and working with it...
19:44.48brlcadcocoa is simply what they 'want' most to use, but there are plenty of cases where you simply have to drop down to carbon (performance, control of the timing loops, c/c++ interface, ..)
19:45.13yukonbobis cocoa aimed at obj c?
19:45.15brlcadyukonbob: did you have to mod any code to get it to work?  if so, a patch of that would be interesting
19:45.20brlcadyeah, cocoa is all objc
19:46.06brlcadyou can use the objc++ hooks they added to gcc and directly interface to C++ code in ObjC, but then you're still in ObjC mode
19:46.46yukonbobbrlcad: I have _not_ had to touch any core code yet -- I'm "working" on moving bwish to something like libbwish so one can  "package add bwish" to a generic tclsh/wish, but otherwise have not delved into the code (except for when I was hoping to get rt-xray to recognize densities, but I didn't get anywhere with that ;)
19:47.24brlcadyukonbob: as for your build settings, I'm almost positive it worked because you used both system tcl and system incrTcl .. if you try to not use system incrTcl, I believe it'll fail atm (with a version whine)
19:47.25yukonbobre: bwish -- I've got it loadable, but haven't built interfaces to any of the functions...
19:48.11yukonbobbrlcad: I have no doubt about that, but I think that's not too shocking...
19:48.36brlcadnot shocking, but something I still gotta fix :)
19:49.38brlcadwe can't/don't assume any package management system -- minimally should build with whatever is installed piecewise or entirely stand-alone
19:50.38*** part/#brlcad ertugerata (n=Ertugrul@81.213.72.50)
19:50.39yukonbobI'd call it low priority -- all those things are easily available to others -- so there's no reason to _have_ to go partly in-distro, partly out-distro wrt the tcl install -- hopefully between myself, ``Erik (who said he'd play w/ it on FBSD) and maybe Irix (who might (???) play with it in cygwin/windows/whatever-hes-running), we can figure that out...
19:51.52brlcadof course
19:52.08brlcadit is low/no priority for distros that have package management
19:52.26brlcadyou just set the flags all on/off and set the dependencies
19:53.05yukonbobI believe it's got everything that's necessary.
19:53.09brlcadwe have a long history of specifically NOT requiring users that are compiling to "go get *anything*" in order to compile
19:53.58brlcadpackage management systems take care of that so it's not an issue, but from a bigger cross-platform perspective it's something that *I* have to worry about (else it turns into an avalanche of support requests that I'd rather not have)
19:56.00yukonbobright -- and by shipping the full distro, nobody _is_ required to get anything -- and it's a valid way to look at it... but mixing things up between in-distro and on-system-already could be a really tricky business... package system, ActiveTcl, or just installing your own tarballs and getting them to work, I think it may be a tall order to get brl-cad to build against what's essentially a half-done job (if you've got tcl/tk, etc, but not itcl).
19:57.30brlcadyet a fairly common case too, e.g. Macs have tcl/tk and a few extensions, but not incrTcl ;)
19:57.55brlcadI'd much prefer to use vendor-provided libraries, particularly when they are customized (as the case is on Macs)
20:01.00brlcadi've got it compiling with the last set of re-enablings of 8.4
20:01.38brlcadnow just get the run-time errors on incrtcl to sort out -- almost sure it's because it's still using the tcl config from our sources, include path issues during compile-time
20:02.25brlcadyukonbob: no, not 100% positive, but the mix still should work if our flags are right :)
20:02.40brlcadhistorically has worked, so it's what I'd call a build system bug
20:02.47yukonbobahh
20:03.16brlcad~yukonbob++
20:04.06brlcadthere IS a system incr ... it's just not in a system path for some reason, have to see why they did that and how to detect it "correctly"
20:11.06yukonbobya -- mine loads 3.3 np -- "package require Itk" "package require Itcl"
20:11.15yukonbob(OS X, 10.4)
20:17.52brlcadwonder if they shoved it into the Tcl framework
20:18.04brlcadI'll have to test that
21:05.42*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1096601470.dsl.bell.ca)
21:06.47IriX64why are they duplicating bu_bomb() in /src/other/lgt/error.c and src/remrt/rtsrv.c ?
21:09.58IriX64yukonbob... trying my luck with tcl8.4.16 after all :)
21:10.25brlcadIriX64: i already explained why it's there to you
21:10.33IriX64huh when
21:10.36brlcadand told you what you can try to do about it
21:10.44IriX64what
21:11.04brlcadseveral months ago when you first started commenting about it
21:11.24IriX64ill fix my copy, forgive, i thought it was first time i mentioned it
21:11.38brlcadit's at least the third time
21:11.44IriX64sorry man
21:12.02IriX64memory really is poor please forgive
21:12.30IriX64ill check my logs
21:12.39IriX64as to what to do about it :)
21:13.44IriX64ahh local functions
21:26.43*** join/#brlcad MinuteElectron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
21:33.34yukonbobIriX64: re: tcl/tk 8.4.16 -- nice! Are you compiling them from src?
21:33.47*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548740C0.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:34.03IriX64yea man i can't find binaries for my weird little setup
21:34.26yukonbobIriX64: ...and how'd it go?
21:34.41yukonbobdoes BRL-CAD run natively on Windows, or does it require Cygwin?
21:35.11IriX64requires the cygwin dll's
21:35.33IriX64http://rafb.net/p/QMUwZz69.html   < this is what i built, perfect timing :)
21:35.56IriX64now to install the thing
21:36.42IriX64screwed up on the prefix, ahh well
21:37.16IriX64i don't think it cares, does it
21:37.20IriX64?
21:38.44IriX64my systems not that slow, just that i walked away a few times and it hit snags in the compile
22:21.32IriX64http://rafb.net/p/zG814m60.html <--- yukonbob, there you go :(
23:29.45yukonbobIriX64: start hacking -- what's happening there is the same thing brlcad, ``Erik and I have been talking about for a while -- my suggestions for this are to take all tcl-related bits and handle them _outside_ of the BRL-CAD distrubtion -- so grab your itcl, and blt, tkimg and build them on your own, against the tcl/tk 8.4 you've got, then build BRL-CAD against those tcl components you've got installed.
23:31.42*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1096782734.dsl.bell.ca)
23:31.45IriX64understood
23:33.29``Erikheh
23:33.52``Erikbu_bumb does something specific, but in lgt, we want it to do something ELSE, so the symbol is overridden
23:34.07``Erik'sup, yukon?
23:35.25yukonbobwell, it's dim up here -- days are short, cloudy (might even be snowing)... hacking away on various things...
23:36.08yukonbobhad a good chat with brlcad this afternoon
23:36.30``Erikohyeah? just good chumming, or soething enlightening?
23:37.12yukonbobpretty casual, but talked about tcl/tk on Mac; made some observations and "discoveries"
23:37.47``Erikcool, my understanding is that tk is a stinker with 84 on mac
23:38.06yukonbobheh -- talked "french" with ertugerata
23:38.08``Erik*nix and winderz are good with it *shrug*
23:38.13``Erikwow
23:38.15``Eriktongue and all???
23:38.17``Erik:D
23:38.30yukonbobfrench talking != french kissing :)
23:38.43``Erik<-- scrolls and reads
23:38.59``Erikif brlcad is doing the 84 compat hacks, that means I dont have to, sweet
23:39.23``Erikand, uh... tcl 85b2? O.o 2???
23:39.27yukonbob``Erik: see link I posted to wiki.tcl.tk
23:39.39yukonbob(re: tk on MacOS)
23:44.07``Erikokie, read up the backlog
23:44.44``Erik... "hum"
23:45.02``Erikcarbon is the c++ "low level" groove, cocoa ist he objC higher level way
23:45.21``Erikcarbon is recommended by apple, to keep fucktards frm getting their fingers too deep, I'd imagine
23:45.25``Eriker
23:45.27``Eriksorry
23:45.31``Erikcocoa is recomdned
23:45.49``Erikhaving done both carbon and cocoa, I MUCH prefer the cocoa
23:46.05``Erikc++ is.... well, bad. objc is bad, but less bad than c++
23:46.30yukonbobI've only _just_ read a bit about both, but as I hear, Cocoa itself in fact uses Carbon
23:46.52``Erikyeah
23:46.56``Erikabstraction does that.
23:47.23``Erikcocoa uses carbon like C uses assembly
23:47.46IriX64http://rafb.net/p/aAuxTb26.html    <---- do i need to let you know about these?
23:48.29``Erikirix: a warning is not someting to be concerned about, and anything in src/other is "not our problem"
23:48.39IriX64good then
23:48.45yukonboba snippet that small is almost useless, and what ``Erik said :)
23:49.00IriX64man it gives the file and line#
23:49.08``Erikit was enough to tell me it was n src/other/blt ... straight import
23:49.26IriX64ok
23:49.46``Erikum
23:49.50yukonbob?there's no indication it came from src/other/blt
23:50.02``Erikyou've seen the commits from bparker, right? I think he's working on a windows 7.10.4
23:50.11``Erikblt.h is in src/other/blt
23:50.14IriX64ah
23:50.23``Erik... as in, bacon lettuce tomato...
23:50.39yukonbobblt.h could be from any blt distribution -- I think IriX64  is building seperate tcl pieces...
23:51.10IriX64its the big piece i want ;)
23:51.16yukonbobanyway -- it's a warning
23:51.22IriX64right
23:51.34yukonbobnothing to fret about in this case...
23:51.42IriX64:)
23:52.47yukonbobIriX64: is this blt from sourceforge or the BRL-CAD distro?
23:53.05IriX64sourceforge
23:53.18yukonbobrock'n'roll -- keep it up :)
23:53.22IriX64cvs
23:53.26IriX64:)
23:53.50IriX64so was that last horrible thing i built :)
23:54.27yukonbobyou've got tkimg too?
23:54.38IriX64no
23:54.51yukonboboh -- /me sees what you're saying... the last thing was from cvs...
23:54.58IriX64yes
23:55.21IriX64but using system tcl8.4.16
23:55.38``Erik<-- has a strong interest in making the software work with as much external sw as possible
23:55.39yukonbobwhat was "the last thing"... itcl?
23:55.49IriX64brlcad
23:56.10IriX64screwed up the prefix used 7.10.4
23:56.37``Erikheh, i think everone interested in package mgmt is up that alley
23:56.48IriX64``Erik then take out the bloody needs exactly blah blah has yah yah check
23:57.21yukonbobIriX64: it's your own system and time, so do what you like, but using cvs (ie: not formally released) increases your chances for breakage -- which means you're fighting a battle on more fronts than you need, and pretty much renders this as a formal test "dubious" at best.
23:57.47IriX64heh true but i like fiddling
23:58.09yukonbobdon't fiddle; you'll go blind
23:58.13IriX64heh
23:59.33``Erikum
23:59.58``Eriksrc/tcl/library/init.tcl has an 'exact' line mebbe 40 lines down that shouldn't be
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071113

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071113

00:00.17``Eriktechnically, the ampi stuff *SHOULD* refer to the detected tcl init.tcl file, not the included
00:00.18``Erikum
00:00.19IriX64see
00:00.21``Erikbut it don't
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02:49.38brlcadit "should" and does in head iirc
02:50.09brlcadthe tricky one is itcl which I think is picking up the tclConfig.sh from our sources
02:50.22brlcadso it gets compiled looking for a specific version (which at run-time doesn't exist)
02:52.42``Erikhm, when I looked, itcl was using src/other/tcl/library/init.tcl, which had a requires exactly line
02:52.45``Erikor, uh
02:52.47``Erikampi was, rather
02:52.57``Erikmebbe both
02:53.21``ErikI have an ed hack in the fbsd port to work around the issue
02:53.22``Erik:/
02:53.36``Erik"heros" is on, btw... kinda half watching it....
02:54.20``Erikhow's the new machine coming?
02:58.34brlcadnot much since saturday
02:59.00brlcadfinished backups, did some more performance testing, had some DDoS stuff to take care of on Sunday
03:01.43Supaplexyucky :p
03:03.48starseekerbrlcad:  Am I correct that latest cvs still needs the patched itcl/itk?
03:08.42brlcadSupaplex: not the first, not the last :)
03:08.54brlcadand wasn't the brl-cad site.. but related hardware getting hit :)
03:08.59Supaplexyup. kiddies.
03:17.16``Erikdamn christa miller is rompable
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03:34.20fiberchunks__damned router :/
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03:45.00``Erika bz'er?
03:45.55fiberchunksyah, long time ago
03:46.01fiberchunksnow, not so much
03:46.28``Erik<-- never gotten into the bz groove
03:46.36``Erikjust noticed your channels :D
03:46.51fiberchunksgreat game, just have no time for it anymore
03:46.56``Erikthe boy *points at brlcad* seems to be into it
03:47.09fiberchunksyah, I've known him for quite some time
03:47.52fiberchunkswithout him, there'd likely be very little in the way of mac work for it
03:48.07fiberchunksamong other things
03:48.07``Eriktrue
03:48.23``ErikI'm under the impression that there's only one other person really pushing the game, uh
03:48.27``Erikmatt or something
03:48.39fiberchunksjeff
03:48.44``Erikjeffm?
03:48.48fiberchunksindeed
03:48.51``Eriknot riker
03:49.03``Erikyeah, I think jeffm is it
03:49.23fiberchunksoh tim?  he's always around -- I'm not sure how into it he is anymore, but he's the 'official' king tut
03:49.47``ErikI was name dropping to someone and tey were like "omfg, you know tim riker?" and I said, no, an active dev, so they said jeffm... heh
03:50.12``ErikI THINK it was jeffm
03:50.22``Erikmy memory aint' so good in my old age *sigh*
03:50.29fiberchunksmost likely - he's one of the most active
03:50.29brlcadnaw, more than that working on it
03:50.41brlcadarguably 2-3 guys "leading" most of the work (and that doesn't include tim)
03:50.56``Erikdamn, christa ... damn
03:50.56brlcadand not counting the peripheral coders
03:50.57fiberchunkstim still the figurehead, brlcad ?
03:51.05brlcadon paper, sure
03:51.13fiberchunkssome things never change :)
03:51.18brlcadhe's done even less since you were last around
03:51.20``Erikseriously, would anyone here turn down christa miller?
03:51.33fiberchunksfancy -- why doesn't he turn it over I wonder
03:51.41brlcadhe popped in one day a few months ago when gsoc kicked off to vote on the student submissions
03:51.52brlcadbut that's about it for '07
03:51.59``Erikhopefully I rate as #2 or at least a close #3 for BRL-CAD dev :D
03:52.08brlcad``Erik: I know lots of chicks that would turn her down :)
03:52.37``ErikI think my chick would saddle up for her, so it's all good :D
03:52.55fiberchunksyay, take pictures!
03:52.58``Erikonce you quit screaming "tmi", ...
03:53.25brlcadhey, so long as you're not in the pics, I"m all for it! :)
03:53.27``Erika buddy of mine up in nyc a psych phd, finally bought a mac today
03:53.45``Erikshe's going between ecstatic and terrified
03:53.52brlcadheh
03:54.03brlcadgood stuff
03:54.17fiberchunksbastich!
03:54.33``ErikI might buy an ibook soon
03:54.43``Erikthey look like decent little machines if you slap a little ram in
03:54.49fiberchunksi'm thinking of one of those fancy new imacs for the family
03:55.08``ErikI'm waiting for a field report on the video card performance
03:55.19``Erikif the intel chip does what I need done, ... *shrug*
03:55.40brlcadlast I read, the imac video "problem" was fixed with the latest rev
03:55.57brlcadyou can actually run dual head now, which was stupidly crippled before
03:56.04fiberchunksyeah, what the hell is with the condensation thing?  they put an icebox in that thing?
03:56.25``Erikmultiscreen isn't my concern, it's the performance for running "wow" that worries me
03:56.56``Erikif a plain chicklet macbook maxes cpu on wow, I'll buy one... otherwise, I might go pro for the nvidia chip
03:57.25fiberchunksmmmmm, nvidia.  Although, if amd does things right, in a couple of years ATI could be decent again
03:57.46``ErikI have a sour taste to nvidia.
03:57.54fiberchunkswhy for?
03:57.59``Eriktheir unix guys... don't understand unix
03:58.05fiberchunksI've never had anything but sucess with their cards
03:58.24``Erikthe ioctl stuff was fucking BAD, it relied on outright bugs in linux code, which made the fbsd effort ugly
03:58.35``Erikalso; they didn't hire me, so poo on them. :D
03:58.40fiberchunkshaha
03:59.10fiberchunksah fbsd, my exp is strictly with linux and of course doze (for solidworks at work, regretfully)
03:59.13``Erikbut seriosuly, their ioctl stuff relied on a weirdness of linux with memory addressing
03:59.45``Eriknamely, linux has a weird behavior of reporting "local memory" at the same address of wire memory in an ioctl
03:59.52fiberchunkswell, that's what I partly mean with ATI and AMD deciding (hopefully) to do the right thing when it comes to drivers -- so the community can work on them as well
03:59.53``Erikwhcih is not the case for, y'knwo, EVERY REAL OS
04:00.00fiberchunksheh
04:00.17``Erikso nvidia's drivers behavior of assuming reported ioctl addy is both wired and real... that's wrong
04:01.58``Erikhttp://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=89042
04:04.17fiberchunksso that's a linux kernel issue and an nvidia driver issue then
04:05.48``Erikthis was over 6 years ago..
04:06.04fiberchunksfancy -- good to see response time is good ;)
04:06.38fiberchunksalso good to see that I can't properly read anything (like dates and stuff )
04:06.43``Erik:)
04:09.08``Erikwas a long time ago
04:09.17``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=72  was the fallout
04:09.19``Erik*grouse*
04:10.03``Erikdamn apple finds good bands to use on their commercials O.o
04:10.41louipcI don't think I've heard a single metal band yet
04:11.11fiberchunksyou know, I love their products, but christ does itunes for the pc suck, which i'm really surprised about
04:11.17fiberchunksor maybe I shouldn't be
04:11.53brlcadthey're not used to coding software on top of steaming piles ;)
04:12.00fiberchunkshehe
04:12.03``Erikhehhee
04:13.14fiberchunkswhat's the going rate these days for a 17" macbook pro?
04:13.21``Erikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N3OrZzPud8
04:14.00fiberchunksoof, nevermind -- too rich for me right now
04:14.22brlcaddon't forget the blessed educational or gov't discounts ;)
04:14.33brlcaddon't even need to prove it *ahem*
04:14.35fiberchunksoooo, I do have a student too :)
04:14.46fiberchunkswhat's the discount?
04:14.51brlcadusually about 10%
04:14.58fiberchunkssweet
04:22.04``Erikwow, they really suck live
04:22.30``Erikthe instruments are spot on, but the vocs, geez
04:23.33louipchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28GaKoCuobU
04:24.20``Erikstrat++
04:26.20louipc\m/
04:26.57louipcman I can't wait until march
04:27.11louipcI'll be seeing them
04:27.17``Erikback in hs, my buddies were big into iron maiden and judas priest... wasn't so much myself
04:27.37fiberchunksoh yeah man, eddie and the priest
04:27.42fiberchunksawesome stuff
04:28.24``ErikI got more into old school ac/dc, metallica, ...
04:28.40``Erikbon scott, yo!
04:28.47fiberchunksiron maiden isn't old school?  judas priest?  dear god man! :)
04:28.54louipcac/dc is good but it's all the same song haha
04:29.01``Erikwell
04:29.03``Erik3 songs
04:29.10``Erik... done over... and over...and... over...
04:29.11``Erik:D
04:29.11louipcold school metallica vs. current metallica?
04:29.14``Erik:D
04:29.26``Erikmetallica with long hair and promotion of "piracy"
04:29.30fiberchunkscurrent or recent metallica is crap
04:29.34``Erikjean jackets ands hit
04:29.36louipcyea
04:29.46``Erikkill 'em all!
04:29.51louipcmaster of puppets
04:30.04``Eriklast good album they did :(
04:30.11``Erikif I had a hat, I'd doff it to cliff right now.
04:30.47fiberchunksi prefer good, old fashioned sabbath with the ozman
04:31.10``Erikyeah, 70's bslack sabbath is good
04:31.12``Erikum
04:31.19``Erikthe, uh, last ozzya lbum sucked
04:31.26``Erikum, johnny something?
04:31.30``Erikjohnny blade?
04:31.35louipcyeah I can't completely get into the Dio stuff
04:31.54``Erikwith the pic of the dude flying the plane... that album sucked
04:31.56fiberchunkswell, once you reach a certain age, or can't remember precisely where, or who, you are -- it's time to get off the train.  I mean really :)
04:31.59``Erikthe ones before kicked butt
04:32.15louipchehe yea
04:32.19``Erikand some of ozzies "solo" stuff was awesome
04:32.34fiberchunksrandy rhodes FTW
04:32.42``Erikyeah, randy was good
04:32.51``Erikanother one worth doffing a hat to :(
04:33.03fiberchunksblack label society is kick ass as well (thinking of ozzy guitarists)
04:33.31``Eriksince we're on a grim rode, dimebag, mentiond bon scott and cliff, ...
04:33.34``Erik:(
04:33.49fiberchunksonly the shitkickers die young
04:34.04louipcchuck shuldiner \m/
04:34.30fiberchunkslemme see, jimi, stevie ray, john bonham (my personal drum idol), etc etc
04:34.39``Erikstevei's still alive
04:34.53fiberchunks'scuse me?
04:34.57``ErikI though
04:34.59louipcno he aint
04:35.02``Erikdoh
04:35.08fiberchunksno, stevie ray vaughn is very very mort
04:35.21``Erikoh damn, 17 years ago
04:35.36louipcbuddy guy is still alive :P
04:36.01``Erikwow, heh
04:36.04``Erikum
04:36.16``Eriklayne staley, kurt cobain, ...
04:36.33fiberchunksi dont' know what it is the past couple of years, but I've really been getting into bluegrass of all things
04:37.03``ErikI've gotten heavy into blues and bubblegum the last few years...
04:37.54``Erikalways been a fan of triphop, though :D but metal and hard rock are what I've been up on since a kid
04:38.27fiberchunksditto that -- I was and still am into trance -- can't really stand rap / hip-hop except for tech nine
04:38.38fiberchunksalthough my fiancee loves rap
04:38.40fiberchunks:\
04:38.45``Erikheh
04:43.45fiberchunksgotta go to bed, take it easy
05:11.25brlcadgood to see the chunk man up and about, hadn't talked to him in months
06:04.48yukonbobnice nickname "The Chunk Man"
06:07.01brlcadhehe
06:07.13brlcadhe fits his namesake pretty well
06:14.16brlcadyukonbob: if it's possible to get a copy of that newhub model, I'd like to investigate why four of the pixels are wrong
06:15.53brlcadat least, four that seem wrong -- can't say that they are without seeing the model and walking the specific ray through the model
06:17.03brlcadit's on a primitive that doesn't have any known problems for that shape, so it's definitely worth investigating
06:35.51yukonbobya -- np.
06:36.37yukonbobare you looking at interior of middle body?
06:36.49yukonbobhint: I doubt I knew about 'pipe' at that time...
06:41.36yukonbobbrlcad: drop me note when ready -- I'll be in/out of irc tonight till I go to sleep, then here again tmo...
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09:41.57CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/vls.c):
09:41.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: protect the vararg function declaration in bu.h with the same defines as used in the definition in libbu/vls.c
09:42.02CIA-27BRL-CAD: remove redundant declaration in libbu/vls.c
09:44.22CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add fchmod.c (according to libbu/Makefile.am)
09:52.13CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c:
09:52.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: It is hard to decide in db_close if bu_close_mapped_file should be called or not:
09:52.18CIA-27BRL-CAD: db_open calls bu_open_mapped_file, db_clone_dbi does not.
09:52.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: Now, db_open calls bu_close_mapped_file if it is a re-use of a previously mapped file.
12:06.35CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (48 files in 48 dirs): Initial check-in.
12:42.46CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Only include windows.h for btclsh on Windows.
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15:48.36DEFCONhi all
15:48.52DEFCONMaloeran are u here
15:50.05*** join/#brlcad Blue_D (n=bluedolf@131.143-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
15:50.17Defconhi Blue_D
15:51.45Blue_DHey DEFCON
15:52.26brlcadeventually
15:53.55Defconi love the render of the tank btw
16:16.02CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal (Large)/ (56 files): remove duplicate theme, src/tclscrtips/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large seems to be a complete copy plus later updates, and it's actually included in the dist (this one is not)
16:22.21CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: No longer need SEARCH_ARCHER.
17:33.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Modify default values for BRLCAD_ROOT and BRLCAD_DATA.
17:33.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald 07STABLE * 10brlcad/configure.ac: move socket and nsl lib stuff to PKG_LIBS (fix for solaris)
17:40.05CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: carry the solaris fixes over from STABLE
18:47.28yukonbobbrlcad: drop me a line when you're ready for that file
20:21.22*** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
20:56.02*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
21:15.52CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_open.c: Initialize dbip->dbi_fd in db_open() to -1.
21:36.28*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
22:01.27*** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru)
22:02.25*** part/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru)
22:05.46*** join/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru)
22:05.59*** part/#brlcad akreal (n=ak@53.as-59.nienschanz.ru)
22:34.14starseekerbut apparently not as a tarball...
22:35.34starseekerHehe - if someone does get this running we could try running BRL-CAD on it again ;-)
22:36.09yukonbobstarseeker: apparently there are no machines available anymore that run this code natively...
22:37.48starseekeremulator time ;-)
22:54.57starseekerCome to think of it, Macsyma at MIT was on Multics at one point... I may still have that manual around here somewhere...
22:56.01``Erikwhich emu will be the first to support it?
22:56.30``Eriksimh might be a serious contendor... but bochs and qemu are both pretty active and have both splayed out into lots of arch's
22:57.21starseekerI think http://orangesquid.net/projects/ge635/ is working on it...
22:57.38starseekerApparently some of the hardware IO setups for Multics were... complex
22:58.02*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-88-140.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:58.52starseekerI wonder if a modernized Multics would still be a viable operating system contender
23:01.27louipcqemu is probably better
23:01.29``Eriksome of the hardware i/o setups for unix were complex, too
23:03.00yukonbob``Erik: you in same office as brlcad ?
23:06.10``Eriksame building, different room
23:10.02yukonbobor so that if we want him in IRC, he gets a shock.
23:13.30starseekerHehe
23:18.47``Erikhum
23:18.53``Erikshocking brlcad... that could be fun :D
23:33.44*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130)
23:48.54brlcadmy other irc client actually rings a loud bell whenever I'm messaged
23:49.02brlcadbut i've not used that in a while
23:50.18PrezKennedythat would drive me nuts
23:52.02``Erikbrlcad, on bz in my home dir, get bike.g, for yukonbobs issue
23:56.19*** join/#brlcad cad70 (n=5384dcba@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:56.42brlcadgot it
23:57.38``Erik"hubcomb" is where the artifacting shows up, according to him... *shrug8 I'm still building, so I'll let him jabber to ya *shrug* :D
23:58.41``Erikbleh, screw it
23:58.41``Erikversion conflict for package "Tcl": have 8.4, need 8.5
23:58.53``Erikand I'm home and dorking with os stuff
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071114

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071114

00:02.18``Erikthe tcl error? or the dorking with os stuff error? :D
00:02.30``ErikI freakin' hate i386 irq/isr/gdt crap
00:02.37``Erikand amd64 has exactly the same shit
00:06.44brlcadtcl
01:03.54starseekerbrlcad:  still on?
01:04.24*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
01:05.19starseekeryukonbob:  Heh - our timing isn't so hot, or he's darn good a dodging ;-)
01:07.32brlcadyes
01:07.56brlcadtoo much code, too little time
01:09.46yukonbob:)
01:10.35yukonbobbrlcad: did ``Erik get you that file/info
01:11.20brlcadthe .g file, yes
01:14.43brlcadis it full_hub?
01:15.46yukonbobhubcomb
01:16.33``Erikdebugger nirt run on the 'bad' rays?
01:17.02yukonbobseems to be size-dependant (if I'm seeing what I think you're seeing)... so either use a big framebuffer, or use 2048 or so for manual rt...
01:18.29brlcadit is
01:18.35brlcadrelated to tolerance and root solving
01:18.59yukonbobfloating point issue? (/me is totally guessing)
01:19.15brlcadcould be as simple as a bad normal, but can't say for certain without actual testing
01:19.23``Erikheh
01:19.36``Erikwhat all pushes the root solver? the torus is a biggie
01:20.23``Erikbut the issues with those mostly seem when the normal is near orthogenal to the primary
01:20.25yukonbobthere are ~38 (maybe 78) tori in that model iirc
01:21.08brlcadI don't doubt that the odd normals are tolerance related
01:21.43brlcadthe odd one are the specs on the tgc
01:21.57brlcadthose are the ones that are worth investigating
01:22.37yukonbobtgc == [rcc + constraints]?
01:22.46``Eriktruncated cone
01:22.58``Erikan rcc a form of tgc
01:23.03yukonbobtrunc cone == trc.
01:23.03``Erikiirc
01:23.07``Eriker
01:23.20``Erik<-- doesn't model, so loses those quick... :D
01:23.29``Erikalso; vodka good :D so don't give me shit
01:23.39brlcadtruncated generalized cone
01:23.48*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
01:23.53``Eriktrc is truncated right cone?
01:23.53yukonbobthat hub body == diff of rcc's -- anyway, is all obvious w/ the .g, and /me trusts you'll find something interesting...
01:23.53brlcads/generalized/general/
01:23.59brlcadyeah
01:24.00``Eriktwingy, isst!
01:24.06brlcadrcc is a right circular cylinder
01:24.09Twingypisst!
01:24.11``Erikok, so trc is a form of tgc
01:24.20brlcadtrc and rcc both
01:24.22TwingyI sent a file and instructions to ed today
01:24.26``Erikok
01:24.32brlcadall of the conics are a tgc
01:24.45``ErikI was in his office this morning, he called you then jay-lo to get isst and rvis sorted
01:25.10brlcadjust like all of the arbs are arb8's
01:25.16TwingyI've been squeezing out circuit boards like a weathered north vietnamese child labor shop
01:26.20yukonbobre: trc and rcc == tgc; interesting...
01:26.45yukonbobtec + rec, too?
01:27.29brlcadthey go through different numerics, and are stored with the knowledge that they are that specific type of tgc
01:27.43``Erikyeah, uh
01:27.46brlcadso saying they're the same really just means that their storage format is that of a tgc
01:27.59yukonbobthx ``Erik
01:28.04``ErikI have to go in the next day or to, heh... I'm trying an experiement
01:28.21``Erikinstead of buying 6 weeks worth of food and living out of the freezer, I'm trying to buy minimally and go once a week
01:28.35brlcadrcc's are considerably faster to evaluate than an arbitrary tgc, for example (almost an order), given the types of roots possible
01:28.38``ErikI'm hoping it'll get me into eating more fresh vegetables and get away from the frozen foods
01:29.18TwingyI often go to the grocery store twice a week
01:29.48``ErikI was doing it once every 6 weeks...
01:29.52yukonbob!
01:29.59starseekermy freezer isn't that big
01:30.29yukonbobreminds me of Microserfs, where people lock themselves in their offices and only eat flat food; food that can be slid under the door...
01:30.38``Erikheh
01:31.23``Erikheh, ziplock fotw
01:31.27``Erikftw
01:31.35starseekerActually, ``Erik you might know this... since brlcad's busy - Has there ever been an effort to have the itcl/itk upstream devs merge in the brlcad patches to those libraries?
01:31.43``Erikum
01:31.50``Erikbrlcad patches?
01:32.01starseekerBRL-CAD patches itcl/itk
01:32.05``Erikwell
01:32.17``Erikbob patched itcl to cope with being included in a foreign build system
01:32.18``Erikbut, uh
01:32.22``Erikotherwise, tehy're very stock
01:32.53``Erikthe only modification right now in HEAD is, um, including <brlcad_config.h> I think
01:33.15``Erikotherwise, I broke stuff really good last week when I imported new tcl, tk, itcl, and itk
01:33.25starseekerMy system installs don't expose Itcl_Init for some reason
01:33.47``Erikerm, odd
01:34.25``Erikhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
01:34.33``Erikbut I don't use system itcl
01:34.35``Eriknot yet
01:35.25starseekerThere we go http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m66c7d311
01:36.28starseekerPersonally I don't have a problem with BRL-CAD building it's own libs, but it seems to send the Gentoo devs into a tailspin - every time I interact with them they "suggest" that using the system libs is the way to go...
01:42.59``Erikwhen they support (actively) tcl 8.5b1, tk 8.5b1, itcl3.4 and itk 3.4, it's all good.
01:43.08``Erik:D
01:43.12starseekerHeh
01:46.53``Erik... ayup...
01:47.02``Erikand I'm PRETTY sure they they don't offer itcl 3.4
01:47.04``Erikmasked or not.
01:47.20``Erikgiven that I imported stuff from the cvs head...
01:47.24``Erik:D
01:47.28starseekerhehe
01:48.33starseekerThey also suggested reducing the user-visible flags - is there any condition under which a "normal" user would NOT want to optimize the build?
01:48.52``Erikum
01:48.53``Erikno
01:48.57starseekerOK :-)
01:49.15starseekeraaaand a nother one bites the dust...
01:49.16``Eriksupposedly, it causes crashes on sparc and ppc on fbsd
01:49.31``Erikor, it did at one point
01:49.53``ErikI lack sparc and ppc fbsd boxen, so I undid the de-optimize fu in the port... and will wait for bug reports
01:50.18starseekerThat should do it :-)
01:51.01``Eriknow I currenlty don't have adrt/rise enabled and that has been a request from users
01:51.05``Erikmostly pedre
01:51.24``Erikbut it adds python and sdl as deps
01:51.58``Erik<-- cranks his ui size way down
01:52.16``Erikwoops
01:52.19Twingypython and sdl is the ancient one
01:52.23``Erikheh
01:52.24``Erikyeah
01:52.25``Erikuh
01:52.30``Erikget me mor erecent code.
01:52.30``Erikboy.
01:52.39TwingyI told you I just send ed the code
01:53.07``Erikare the docs up to date, so'z  dumb old coder like me can pick it up?
01:54.09``Erik<-- half expecting a letter from legal in the next few days, skipped lunch to leave early (after 9hrclock time), and the evil one saw me drive off.
01:54.20``Erikso I'm a'drinkin' and not a'carin'
01:56.07Twingylegal? are you in trouble? :)
01:56.54``Erikprasad got a legal notice before any supervisor interjection
01:57.24``Erikactually, no, he got it immediately after, but obviously the legal avenue was pursued before any confrontation at the local mgmt level
01:57.43``Erikand I don't think it learnes.
01:58.42``Erikdamn my unique automobile
02:23.38brlcadyukonbob: that'd work for me.. pizza :)
02:24.03brlcadstarseeker: yeah, we're not modding incr (at least any more)
02:24.19starseeker:-)
02:24.23brlcadother than to allow it to work uninstalled, which is specific to our source layout
02:24.40starseekerWould upstream incorporate that change?
02:26.26brlcadno no, it refers specifically to where we know it can find sources
02:26.49brlcadmerely for the sake of being able to run binaries without actually installing
02:27.07brlcadand still have them find all of the resources they expect
02:27.51brlcadthe same effect is achieved normally by setting the plethora of env vars (ITCL_LIBRARY, etc)
02:28.44starseekerAh.  So using a system install is possible if the env vars are used?
02:28.48brlcadideally --disable-all will work if/when the proper deps are declared and if/when all of the configure tests are solid
02:29.00brlcadhuh?
02:29.09brlcadusing a system install is supposed to be possible regardless
02:29.16starseekerer, sorry.  :-)
02:29.19brlcadi'm referring to running binaries without ever installing anything
02:29.29*** join/#brlcad fiberchunks (n=foo@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks)
02:29.43brlcadif they were purely all system installed libs, then there's no problem
02:30.03brlcadbecause at run-time, everything is where it expects it already (they're already installed)
02:30.14starseekerAh, of course
02:30.20brlcadi'm talking about having one of the tcl component being used, but NOT yet installed
02:30.42brlcadlike say you use a system tcl, but were letting incrtcl compile from our sources
02:31.12brlcadthen a binary that uses itcl, tries a package require Itcl, etc will fail
02:31.17brlcaduntil you install it
02:31.42starseekerOh, got it
02:31.53brlcadsince we know where to find those resources even before it's installed, we just make the mod that makes it look in our source tree before giving up
02:31.59fiberchunksevening
02:32.02brlcadhowdy fiberchunks
02:32.13brlcadtwo days in a row, what is the world coming to!
02:32.22fiberchunksno doubt -- call guinness :)
02:32.33fiberchunks...cause I need a beer
02:33.03brlcad~beer fiberchunks
02:33.04ibotACTION pulls out a excellent Piraat for fiberchunks
02:33.10fiberchunksdanke
02:35.36brlcad``Erik: you noticed that the new tcl isn't getting our build flags any more?
02:35.57brlcadsince b2 update afaict
02:36.19brlcadstarseeker: for that configure log, is there a system incrtcl already installed?
02:36.26brlcadi.e. did it fail to detect
02:36.38starseekerShould be - itcl and itk are installed...
02:36.39brlcador is the abort correct
02:36.50starseekerhang on, let me make sure...
02:36.56brlcadshould see why the test failed
02:37.10brlcadmight be something as simple as needing some -lz or something
02:37.22starseekerI have itcl-3.3 and itk-3.3 installed using the portage system
02:37.38starseekerIn /usr/lib/itcl3.3
02:37.40brlcadlook in config.log for Itcl_Init
02:38.04brlcadthose are the data resources, the libs are "somewhere" else
02:38.19starseekerconfigure:30575: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.4
02:38.39starseekerconfigure:30639: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl34
02:38.47starseekerconfigure:30703: checking for Itcl_Init in -litcl3.3
02:38.57starseekerthat should be it...
02:39.03brlcadhuh?
02:39.08starseekerversion 3.3
02:39.18starseekerletsee here...
02:39.20brlcadnah nah, there is massive sections in config.log related to those tests
02:39.35starseekerOh, want me to pastebin all of it?
02:39.48brlcadall of what?
02:39.56starseekerthat section of config.log
02:40.00brlcadi want to see all of just one of the tests that should have succeeded
02:40.12brlcadlike the -litcl3.3 test
02:40.30brlcadpresuming you have a libitcl3.3.so
02:40.49starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m575b452b
02:41.19brlcadlocate libitcl
02:41.37brlcadthat one at least correctly "failed"
02:41.40starseekerI don't have locate on this box, one sec...
02:41.47brlcad/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -litcl3.3
02:42.19brlcaddon't have locate o.O
02:42.42starseeker/usr/lib/itcl3.3/libitcl3.3.so is the file in question...
02:44.20brlcadwow
02:44.29brlcadthat's ..
02:44.30brlcadspecial
02:45.00starseekerThe location or not having locate?
02:45.06brlcadyes :)
02:45.09starseekerHehe
02:45.14brlcadbut the location in particular
02:45.26brlcadhow is an app that uses libitcl supposed to link against it?
02:45.27starseekerThat's where the ebuild stuck it - let me check the ebuild...
02:45.35brlcadwithout manually adding that ld path
02:45.47brlcadwhere is libtcl installed?
02:46.21starseeker/usr/lib/tcl8.4
02:46.34brlcadinside that dir?
02:46.41starseekerwith /usr/lib having libtcl.so, libtcl8.4.so
02:46.43starseekeryes
02:46.45brlcadahh
02:46.56brlcadit has symlinks into it in /usr/lib
02:47.03brlcad*that* makes sense
02:47.14``Erikbrlcad: no... remind me at lunch tomorrow :D
02:47.20brlcadjust throwing libs into a dir with no ref to them doesn't
02:47.26starseekerIt would appear that libitcl does not
02:47.36starseekerhave anything in /usr/lib
02:47.48``Erikitcl 3.3 does not play well with tcl 8.5b1
02:48.08starseekerWell, my system tcl is 8.4
02:48.41brlcadif you run bwish and package require Itcl, what does it do?
02:48.46brlcads/bwish/wish/
02:48.50CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/generic/tclInt.h: since our build flags aren't getting passed through to tcl for some reason (which isn't all that bad so far), just reference our common.h directly
02:49.03``Erikok
02:49.12``ErikI guess you don't need to remind me at lunch
02:49.13``ErikO.o
02:49.14starseekercyapp@localhost /usr/portage $ wish
02:49.14starseekerpackage require % Itcl
02:49.15starseeker3.3
02:49.15starseeker%
02:49.23starseekerand a window pops up after wish
02:49.56brlcadthat takes care of the error .. not sure we care if other flags aren't passed -- i'd gather it might be a bigger problem on a non-gcc platform
02:50.10brlcadyeah, the window is default wish behavior, that's just tk
02:50.16starseekerright
02:50.20brlcadi wonder how wish is finding itcl
02:50.28brlcadset auto_path
02:50.40brlcadwhat does that report?
02:51.13starseeker/usr/lib/tcl8.4 /usr/lib /usr/lib/tk8.4
02:51.30brlcadhuh
02:52.19brlcadis itcl.tcl in tcl8.4 or itcl3.3 dir?
02:52.58brlcadand what does ldd `which wish` report?
02:53.13starseeker/usr/lib/itcl3.3/itcl.tcl
02:54.01starseekerno sign of itcl
02:54.22starseekerlet me pastebin the result...
02:54.48starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7549ba41
02:55.36starseekerAh - there is an itclConfig.sh file in /usr/lib
02:56.32starseekerhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m21cfb12e
02:56.39starseekerI'll bet that's it
02:57.11starseekerAnybody else have that file in /usr/lib?
02:57.28brlcadthat'd be one way to find the lib
02:57.49brlcadbut I doubt still not what wish is using
03:02.42starseekerThe only thing I see in any generic file is /usr/include has itcl and itk .h files
03:03.40brlcadah well, suppose it doesn't matter too much .. I can use the config script
03:03.47starseekerand as far as I can tell, the portage package system isn't doing any special magic when it is doing the installs...
03:04.10starseekerAnybody else got a Gentoo system on the list?
03:10.47yukonbobbrlcad: re: finding /usr/lib/itcl3.3 in portage -- I bet the build system must setup "default" paths/ENV vars to get the portage system to work, and require flags to "manually" build against it -- my 3rd party libs/tools are /usr/pkg/[blah] -- which makes total sense for this system...
03:11.55starseekerWhat does it mean when you get a "Cannot allocate memory" error in a cvs checkout???
03:13.35yukonbobbrlcad: iirc, tcls autopath searches dirs and all subdirs
03:14.01starseekerbrlcad:  Thanks for taking the time to work on this :-)
03:17.12yukonbob...not to mention the *Config.sh for leading tcl around to find it's bits/self... though like ``Erik said, nobody really likes it -- it's a bit of an ongoing issue finding the best way to have tcl know what system it's on, introspect about itself, etc.
03:28.19brlcadyukonbob: really?  didn't think it was recursive
03:28.29brlcadbut that would explain finding itcl
03:29.06brlcadand I still didn't think the config scripts were used by anything at run-time
03:29.27brlcadjust part of tea build interface
03:31.44yukonbobbrlcad: re: Config -- you may well be correct there -- I'm _not_ an expert in this case -- and I think that anybody who _is_ an expert wishes for something better ;)
03:32.34yukonbob(from what I glean from conversations with & between devs.)
03:50.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/Makefile.am: fix dist, apparently no longer a mac dir here?
03:53.43CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/libpng/Makefile.am: wrong ver file in dist
03:56.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: fix dist, there is no brlcad dir
05:36.09brlcadawshome .. now detects files missing from the dist in a useful manner
05:38.34yukonbob:) -- hey (only curious here, not pushing), did you see what is responsible for the errant pixels in the hub?
06:08.33brlcadoh heck no, that'll take a quite while to investigate
06:09.06brlcadbut I was able to reproduce it, so that's good/bad
06:11.58brlcadI also don't have the right build setup at the moment to dive into it, but thanks for getting the model over -- it's in the queue to investigate
06:29.06yukonbob:)
06:30.00yukonbobif there's something I can do here, lemme know
06:48.06CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/Makefile.loc: pointless and out-of-date old build file removed
06:49.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/Makefile.am: add missing remapid manual page to the install/dist
06:52.04CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (util/Makefile.loc fbed/Makefile.loc libbn/Makefile.loc): more obsolete and out-of-date old build files, now removed
06:58.23CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c:
06:58.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: semaphore protect the crash report being generated on bomb so that only one
06:58.27CIA-27BRL-CAD: thread/process is writing out to the log file at a time. only allow one of them
06:58.29CIA-27BRL-CAD: to write to the file, depending on whether the log file for that process already
06:58.31CIA-27BRL-CAD: exists. we use BU_SEM_MAPPEDFILE since that really shouldn't be in use during
06:58.35CIA-27BRL-CAD: bombing.
07:05.19CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
07:05.21CIA-27BRL-CAD: fixed garbled output during parallel crash reports. if you were on a parallel
07:05.23CIA-27BRL-CAD: system with mutiple threads/procs in action when bu_bomb() is invoked, multiple
07:05.25CIA-27BRL-CAD: threads/procs ended up writing out to the crash report file. this fix
07:05.27CIA-27BRL-CAD: synchronizes the output and removes the garbled interleaving.
07:40.47brlcadyay, all binaries finally uploaded (except windows)
07:41.14brlcadtomorrow hopefully can make all of the announcements
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11:51.08CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Initial check-in.
12:11.33Defcon? what?
12:19.37brlcadDefcon: ?
12:22.02CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: there is that brlcad.sln now..
12:25.31Defconyeah
12:25.31Defconwhat is CIA-27 saying?
14:18.08brlcadDefcon: CIA-27 shows commits to the BRL-CAD source code repository (i.e. actual changes to the code) as they happen
14:19.16Defconthat is sweet
14:19.20brlcadso there it was saying that bob1961 (one of the brl-cad developers) made a change, namely that he added the misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln visual studio build file
14:19.44Defconis it made in visual studio?
14:19.56brlcadbrl-cad is cross-platform
14:20.00brlcadextensively
14:20.03Defconnice
14:20.21Defconbut if you guys are open source
14:20.37Defconwho pays for the visual studio licence
14:21.07brlcadjust because we're open source doesn't mean we're broke and waiting for hand-outs :)
14:21.25brlcaddifferent for each dev/contributor
14:22.08Defconohw :)
14:22.11brlcadI buy what I need, for example, in addition to the slew of open source software I use and work on
14:22.53Defconare you a C programmer?
14:23.01brlcadI have windows and studio but rarely use them myself, only from time to time for brl-cad
14:23.14brlcadmost of the time, I use my macs, bsd, and linux
14:23.20Defconnice
14:23.39Defconbtw: who are u, 'cause i think brlcad can't speak for itselves
14:23.39Defcon:)
14:23.49``Erikhe is brlcad
14:23.59Defconbrlcad is an app
14:24.00Defcon:)
14:24.17``Erikand defcon is a military state system
14:24.32``Erik:D
14:24.40Defcon:)
14:24.43Defconindeed
14:24.50Defconfrom the us
14:24.57Defconi'm from Belgium
14:25.11Defconand a fellow Developper, not a system :)
14:25.41``Erikwell, you can be a defense condition, and brlcad can be an app, it's all good :D
14:25.45brlcadDefcon: "brl-cad" is an app, "brlcad" is me :)
14:25.51``ErikI thought it was BRL-CAD
14:25.52Defconhaha ok
14:25.57brlcadthat too
14:26.07Defconyeah, that's more impressive
14:26.07Defcon:)
14:26.25Defconman i love the Stryker ICV w/ Slat Armor rendered with ADRT/RISE render
14:26.45brlcadTwingy put that one together
14:26.50brlcadpretty slick, eh?
14:26.59``ErikI think that took a week or two on an 18 core mini-cluster
14:27.14Defconvery nice
14:27.30Defcon``Erik to render?
14:27.31``Erikhas all the goodies turned on, depth of field, hypersampling, etc
14:28.06brlcadDefcon: so you're a developer?
14:28.11``Erikyeah
14:28.12``Erik5 days
14:28.15``Erikit's on the image
14:28.28Defconyeah
14:28.37Defconindeed brlcad
14:28.38``Erikum, every blade of grass and leaf is modelled
14:28.41brlcadthen welcome :)
14:28.46Defconty :)
14:28.55``Erikthere are no textures, imposters, or anything
14:28.59brlcadlemme know where we can get you hacking and contributing ;)
14:29.13Defconhacking..? :D
14:29.24brlcadit's a big package, but don't let it be daunting -- feel free to ask questions ;)
14:29.33brlcadhacking == developing
14:29.37Defconohw :)
14:29.48Defconi'm an vb / asp.net programmer
14:30.13Defconso.. i dunno if i can add something to your app
14:30.13Defcon:)
14:30.43brlcadhey, most languages if you know them well translate to other languages without too much effort
14:30.45DefconBRL-CAD is way to advanced for me
14:31.57``Erik<-- thinks one of the biggest ways to improve your coding skill is to honestly learn new languages and paradigms
14:32.06brlcadDefcon: so then what's your interest?
14:32.30Defconeverything that has to do something with coding :)
14:32.37brlcadit's too big to qualitatively say that the *whole* thing is too advanced for you :)
14:32.45``Erikand one of the neater ways to do that might be to grab some tickle and write modelling scripts, very quick to get very visual results
14:32.53``Eriktcl
14:33.02Defcontcl?
14:33.12``Erikthe scripting language we're using
14:33.27``Erikhttp://www.tcl.tk
14:33.40Defconah
14:33.41brlcador even write some procedural geometry stuff in VB for that matter
14:34.08brlcadjust hook up to the brl-cad dll's like you would for any language in vb
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14:34.23Defconyeah
14:34.29``Erikhm, vb stuff tends not to work so well on mac, freebsd, openbsd, linux, irix, solaris, ...
14:34.30Defconi know how to use dll's
14:34.35Defconmight be a start
14:35.04``Erikruby might be sexier :D
14:35.11brlcadthere are tons of small example programs in src/proc-db (in C) and src/mk for making procedural geometry, but it helps if you kinda had some sort of goal in mind
14:35.54Defconmy goal now is to find a goal
14:35.55Defcon:)
14:36.12Defconthat's one reason i'm here
14:36.41brlcadlots of potential goals here: http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
14:37.13brlcadthough VB won't help with most of them
14:37.40Defconhmm
14:37.41DefconWeb Work
14:38.13brlcaddo you know anything other than asp?
14:38.19Defconvb :)
14:38.22Defconsql server
14:38.26Defcon..
14:38.26brlcador are interested in learning :)
14:38.34Defconoffcourse i am
14:38.35brlcadsomething like php or ruby or python
14:38.48Defconwhy those?
14:39.06``Erikthe web stuff is php on a freebsd server, backed by mysql I think
14:39.20Defconohw
14:39.22``Erikadrt/rise uses some python
14:39.36brlcadmysql or postgres or whatever is needed (but open source)
14:40.10Defconi have worked a very little bit with php, mysql and apache
14:40.24Defconbut that knowledge is allready gone
14:40.27brlcadand I really have no inclination of installing the fp extensions to apache .. :)
14:40.43Defcon:)
14:41.36Defconi started leaning C once
14:41.46Defconvia the interwebz
14:41.53brlcadphp, ruby, python, perl, lisp, etc, are all easy to set up if they're not set up already
14:41.57Defconand Maloeran's app/game
14:42.21brlcadsome more ideas: http://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/doc/IDEAS
14:42.28``Erikhis web space thingy? I thought that was all striaght C, wrote his own httpd or something
14:42.45Defconindeed
14:43.35``Erik<-- has an urge to learn 'ajax' with a CL backed server chunk lately
14:43.53Defconi know a bit of ajax
14:44.24Defconbtw: www.ectroverse.com
14:44.34Defconmal's game is still up and running
14:44.45``Erikhttp://www.cliki.net/CL-AJAX   <-- something I've been looking at
14:44.46Defconcompletely build in C
14:45.07Defconi do not know Lisp
14:45.09Defcon:)
14:47.18Defconin mal's sourcecode : void InitHTTP()
14:47.38Defconso he basicly wrote his own webserver?
14:48.55``ErikI think he did... *shrug* I d'no, I never saw the code
14:49.21``Erikwebservers are easy to write, I had an assignment to write one at school many years ago
14:49.22Defconhttp://www.wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip
14:49.30Defconreally
14:52.29Defconif it was that easy, i would have made one
14:52.58Defconbtw: what is an .o file?
14:52.59``Erikheh, yeah, that's a standalone web server
14:53.04``Erikobject
14:53.11``Erikum, you probably recognize them as .obj
14:53.11Defconand why isn't that plain text
14:53.12Defconohw
14:54.05``Erikmy, the thing isn't threaded and doesn't seem to throw child processes, several people playing at the same time would see delays in loading the page O.o
14:55.03Defconnever had any probs with that..
14:55.15Defcon.ascx file these days i gues
14:55.19Defcon*guess
14:55.50Defconthe ectroverse server stats: http://shell2.skyberate.net:9120/status
14:56.01DefconServer program CPU usage ( average )
14:56.01DefconTotal usage : 0.106 %
14:56.01DefconIn user mode : 0.034 %
14:56.02DefconIn kernel mode : 0.072 %
14:56.59Defcon+ the whole game only uses 7mb RAM
14:57.08Defconon the server
14:57.40``Erikdoesn't change the fact that it's completely serial, if I looked at it with a 300 baud modem, anyone else connecting would have to wait until I finished getting the page before they could get theirs
14:58.05Defcono'rly..
14:58.23Defconhopefully u don't do that :)
14:58.36Defconbtw: how do u see that?
14:58.38``Erikno, I'll use the 1200 baud modem
14:59.10Defconok :)
14:59.11``Erikthe C, it's a simple loop, no threading or forking
14:59.57Defconhmm
15:00.14Defconit will take some time for me to understand that
15:00.34Defconi've been looking at his code since he made it in 2002/2003
15:01.00Defconand i still don't understand a line from it
15:01.38``Erikerm, quit looking a that pile and go write some trivial C programs to start learning the language? :D *duck*
15:02.34Defconhaha yeah
15:02.45Defconbut
15:02.47Defcon:p
15:03.01Defconhow do i start learning C :)
15:03.07Defconin windows btw :)
15:03.18``Erikdownload a free compiler?
15:03.27Defconu know any good ones?
15:04.09``ErikI usually grab 'cygwin' when I have to do C on windows, but it emulates a unix-ey environment... mingw32 ummmm, djgpp, msys...
15:04.19``Erikmicrosoft offers their cc for free I think (but no ide on it)
15:04.44Defconok..
15:04.47``Erikthe first C I wrote on a winderz computer was using 'pcc' and, um, "ultraedit32" to write it
15:04.52Defconcygwin, i'll google that
15:05.16``ErikI think lcc is free and available for windows, ummmm
15:05.35Defconlcc, pcc, ..?
15:05.39Defconlol
15:05.50``Erik'cc' stands for "C compiler" in this context...
15:06.25Defconi'll be using Notepad++ in stead of ultraedit32
15:06.29Defconwill that work?
15:06.54``Erikas long as it cna product ascii text...
15:07.05``Eriktechnically, you could do it using 'word' :)
15:07.41Defconyeah
15:07.47``Erikif you like living dangerously, 'gvim' and 'emacs' are both available on windows, they're pretty heavy hitting editors with lots of goodies for programmers
15:08.09Defconbut notepad++ has a C markup check thingie
15:08.21Defconi like living dangerously, but i'm at work atm
15:08.23Defconso.. :)
15:08.42``Erikooh, irc from work, I'd never do anything like that *cough* O:-)
15:08.48Defcon:D
15:10.19Defconanyway
15:10.20Defconbbl
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15:39.59brlcadDefcon: there are plenty of good free compilers for windows -- there's mingw, cygwin, and Dev-C++ as well as Visual Studio Express is even free .. I'd suggest starting with that one with your background, then just writing some simple console applications
15:43.42Z80-Boyfree as in beer
15:45.09Defconi have the Visual Studio Professional
15:45.46Defconso i'm set to go :)
15:45.48Defconi think
15:47.07Z80-Boybrlcad: I just changed Ronja to use outlined 3D pictures. Now I am recompiling all the pictures this way so when it's finished you can see what it looks like.
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17:12.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (viewhide.c viewxray.c): AmbientIntensity is already declared in optical.h
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18:30.55yukonbobhello, cadheads
19:06.39*** join/#brlcad minute (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron)
20:00.02*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
20:00.18prasad_howdy
20:00.19prasad_:)
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20:23.23brlcadhowdy prasad_
20:23.28brlcadltns
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20:58.11prasad_hey hey
21:00.19brlcadhow goes it?
21:00.33brlcadknocked up and expecting yet?
21:01.13prasad_haha nah
21:01.26prasad_damn wedding reception in a month tho
21:01.28prasad_pain
21:01.30prasad_hehe
21:01.44prasad_how's life at the A-P-G ;)
21:02.04brlcadbout the same as always
21:02.28brlcadsome things better, some things worse
21:04.31prasad_ah so
21:04.43prasad_m3 still chugging along?
21:05.26brlcadyup yup
21:05.36brlcadeven got some fresh blood
21:05.52prasad_cool cool
21:05.55prasad_same mgmt?
21:05.57``Erikoi, prasad
21:06.13prasad_hey yo
21:06.14brlcadprasad_: as ever, save for acst
21:06.24``Erikhad a going away luncheon for the pm and business analyst today O.o
21:06.33prasad_whoa
21:06.42prasad_m3 pm?
21:06.46brlcad:)
21:06.47``Erikyup
21:06.51prasad_haha!
21:06.57prasad_reassigned?
21:07.01prasad_demoted??
21:07.06prasad_*snicker*
21:07.25prasad_ohh wait
21:08.09``Erikum, sorta kinda a 'lateral promotion'
21:08.10prasad_im confusing old pm with new
21:08.10prasad_doh
21:08.10prasad_damn.. been a year
21:08.20``Erikstill at the videogame middleware place? vector ui stuff?
21:08.27prasad_indeed
21:08.37*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54877522.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:08.39prasad_crysis and mass effect
21:08.44prasad_go get em :P
21:09.04``Erikdude, wow eats too much of my time already O.o
21:09.13``ErikI can't be addin' on new gams
21:09.16prasad_are you serious???
21:09.17prasad_hahaha
21:09.22prasad_never thought u'd cave in
21:09.40``Erikgf brought the discs over, made me install and try it
21:09.56prasad_and the addiction spreads
21:09.59prasad_hehe
21:10.39prasad_we've got a cpl of wow heads here
21:10.48``Erikwhich followed by a group of old friends I talk to on irc jumping into it *sigh*
21:11.29prasad_what are u upto project wise
21:12.41``Erik<-- still doing BRL-CAD
21:13.17``Eriktried to go to cisd, but someone threw 3 tons of red tape on that :/
21:13.32prasad_heh by old pm i meant her
21:13.35prasad_:o
21:13.46``Erik<-- assumed that
21:14.15prasad_any ui changes to brlcad?
21:14.18prasad_or still the same
21:19.03starseekerSweeet.  Ebuild now installs into /usr/lib/brlcad
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21:28.35dtidrow_workhttp://blogs.intel.com/research/2007/10/real_time_raytracing_the_end_o.html - did you guys comment about this back in Oct.?
21:31.07``Erikprobably, the article lacks some details, so it makes it hard to be certain
21:31.48``Erikintel has a few big raytracing pushes going on, including a couple regular presenters at siggraph *shrug* one would almost think they're serious :)
21:36.22prasad_u guys get a cluster of ps3s yet? :P
21:39.35prasad_heh im sure they could
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22:10.12Twingyhi prasad
22:20.19prasad_hey justin
22:20.25prasad_wassup
22:31.21prasad_some in game screens of crysis if u havent seen em already: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165243
22:38.41Twingyvery nice!
22:39.07brlcaddtidrow_work: yeah, commented and duly yawned on it .. intel has been (rightly) pushing ray-tracing to supplant raster for a couple years now -- the real trick is going to be opengl hooks to (easily) allow it, which is still pretty far off (programmability isn't suficient)
22:39.58brlcadtoo much of a moving target, and the cpu-based approaches while good aren't nearly even as open as opengl was at its inception (nor as well coordinated)
22:40.53brlcadprasad_: thems rather impressive screenshots
22:41.01prasad_rastered ;)
22:41.08brlcadyep, very nice
22:41.22prasad_~1-2M tris
22:42.10brlcadprasad_: and how many procedural shaders? :)
22:42.11prasad_to be fair that example isn't really feasible for a game
22:42.23prasad_maybe in about 2 gfx hw cycles, they'll get good perf
22:42.46brlcadyeah.. 1GB mem use is a bit intense for commodity
22:42.47prasad_quite a lot, but cryengine's editor is mighty easy to use
22:42.59prasad_that's RAM usage btw
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22:43.05*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_work (n=dtidrow@host169.objectsciences.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:43.09brlcadah, fun
22:43.25brlcadwonder how much tex mem
22:44.01prasad_id say prolly around 200
22:45.39prasad_iirc one of our devs is going to present a paper at the next siggraph
22:45.44prasad_wonder if they'll let me go :P
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22:49.51prasad_brlcad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBp3LxAetHk
23:02.49*** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
23:12.46starseekerThis should at least put brl-cad in the "proper" location - now we're probably down to calling the autogen.sh script and the hostility to using internal copies of libs (some of which don't even HAVE ebuilds yet for their stand-alone versions...)
23:18.40louipcstarseeker: where do you put the executables?
23:20.16starseekerlouipc:  /usr/lib/brlcad/bin
23:20.22starseekerlouipc:  Then I add that to PATH
23:20.30starseeker(gentoo has a mechanism for that)
23:22.51starseekerlouipc:  Got a gentoo box handy? ;-)
23:23.47louipcnope
23:24.14louipchmm I might look into doing the same for my pkg
23:24.31starseekerIt's the only safe way to stick it in the /usr tree
23:24.42starseekerAnd they're quite insistent about it not going anywhere else...
23:24.50louipchehe yeah
23:25.39starseekerI also add /usr/lib/brlcad/man to the MANPATH, so man mged does something useful too ;-)
23:25.47louipcbut brlcad is a huge package, my distro would probably be ok with it being in /opt also considering the potential conflicts, but there's been an initiative recently to move things to /usr
23:26.22louipcyou could probably put the manpages in the regular manpath non?
23:26.50brlcadi am not!
23:26.56starseekerOnly if no internal tcl/tk goodies are installed - they conflict with system packages
23:26.58brlcadI'm rather short, actually
23:27.45louipcoh right hah
23:28.11starseekerEventually Gentoo would probably be able to supply enough external libs that the internal ones wouldn't be needed, but that'll be a long struggle
23:28.29starseeker(considering we're coming up on the THREE YEAR MARK for the main brl-cad bug... ahem)
23:28.32brlcadbut I do _have_ a huge package *ahem*
23:28.37brlcader, never mind
23:28.43brlcad:)
23:29.02louipcbrlcad: good to know
23:29.03brlcadthank you, I'm here all week
23:29.12brlcadtry the lobster bisque
23:29.26louipcnow I'm hungry
23:29.35starseekermmm food...
23:29.58louipcI think I'll go buy some RAM
23:30.10starseekerThat's rather crunchy
23:30.14brlcadhehe, "And what exactly are you supposed to do when printf() returns false? Display an error message? "
23:30.31starseekerI think you have the computer yell something ;-)
23:31.42louipcmake it emit a foul odour
23:34.00louipcI wonder what scent static or white noise would smell like
23:34.32starseekerMaybe that's what I smell when I walk by a perfume counter in a department store...
23:38.25louipcnice
23:49.06louipcindeed!
23:49.22starseekerConsidering how old the system is, there's a lot of stuff there - compresses down with gzip to slightly over 118 megs
23:58.00``Eriker
23:58.11``Erikyou had three sushi lunches, dude
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071115

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071115

00:00.06``Erikand printf can puke at complex or generated format strings, or if stdout is gimpy, so a nice 'safe' (without allocations or fmt parsing) display to stderr MIGHT be helpful... :D
00:02.13``Erikkinda looks like a bsd-ish license, ya gonna post your multics tarball somewhere? or ask 'em to provide one on their site? heh
00:27.53*** part/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
01:50.36starseekerHeh - If they were going to provide one I'd assume they would have done so already - it's the most obvious thing to do.
01:51.02starseekerAs for posting it somewhere, I would but I'm not sure where I can post it - I don't really have my own website...
01:53.10``ErikI d'no
01:53.12``Erikit's mit...
01:53.32starseekerThey may not want a lot of nerds randomly downloading 118 megs...
01:53.33``Eriksome smart people there, but I think almost all of them thnk they're a lot smarter than they are
01:57.28starseekerHeh - probably.
02:03.39starseekerGrrrrrrr.  What is Gentoo up to on the AMD64 platform with itcl/itk??
02:17.19``Erikhey, uh, brlcad
02:17.29``Erikctrl+opt+cmd+8
02:19.04poolioinverted colors iirc?
02:46.32brlcadyes?
02:47.57brlcadstarseeker: you're welcome to an account on .bz if you want
02:53.59``Eriknegative, yes, quite sharp of you, hoolio
02:54.27starseekerbrlcad:  That would be nice..
02:54.49``Erikspeaking of, is that file still accurate?
02:55.51poolio``Erik: I only know it cause I'd use it for mischief on others' computers.
02:57.03``Erikheh
02:57.07``Erikum
02:57.31``Erikin '96 or so, I convinced a friend to get an x86 and install linux... he was a mac guy
02:57.39``Erikhe invited me in and rooted me up to check over his box
02:57.50``Erikso I dd's the kernel to the audio out
02:57.56``Erikand opened and closed the cdrom a few times
02:57.59``Erikfreaked him out :D
02:58.38poolioheh, i was more of a fan of cat, but yeah, that's always fun.
02:58.54poolioman, 2nd semester in a row Im not getting the programming course I want. this sucks.
02:59.08``Erikwhat course?
02:59.10starseekerbrlcad:  Mightn't they put their eyebrows up at a 118M tarball of an ancient OS though? ;-)
02:59.33poolioIntro to Computer Systems...there are already 110 people on the waitlist (all not freshmen) and the class is only 150
02:59.52``ErikSOUTHPARK TIME
03:00.06``Erikaren't you a little past that?
03:00.24poolio``Erik: It's low level C, doing stuff like implementing a proxy, rewriting malloc, etc...
03:00.30louipcwhat's Intro to Computer Systems? "this is the monitor, this is the keyboard?"
03:00.31poolioI know most of it but not enough to place out of it
03:00.32``Erikoh
03:00.42``Erikaight, cool
03:00.45louipcah ok :D
03:00.56poolioPrepares you for the class after that, OS, which is ridiculously hard...you write your own OS :P
03:01.08louipcdamnit Erik
03:01.10``ErikI was afraid you meant like "this program is called excdell, you can put numbers in it" type work
03:01.17``Erikwriting an OS all depends on the hw
03:01.36``Erikx86 is horribly ugly with the nasty gdt/idt/isr hacks
03:01.52``Erikum, proxy's and malloc are pretty easy
03:02.16poolioyeah, I mean 213 shouldn't be too bad, but it will be good practice before I get my ass kicked in OS
03:02.41``Erikcmu is actually the school I really want ot go to for my grad work
03:03.06``Erikof the handful of 'best for cs' schools, it matches my interests most
03:03.30``Erik<-- very into os's and languages
03:04.04louipcdo you folks know a good school for electrical engineering?
03:07.20starseeker``Erik:  How are you going to go there while working on BRL-CAD?
03:07.54``Erikin theory, ARL "supports" 'long term training'
03:08.01starseekerAh.
03:08.26starseekerbrlcad:  Should I send you any info for the .bz account?
03:08.59CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/setup.c:
03:09.01CIA-27BRL-CAD: AHA! I had added the final tclcad_auto_path() call... just not to the mged init
03:09.03CIA-27BRL-CAD: routine. it was only added to bwish (those two really should syncronize their
03:09.05CIA-27BRL-CAD: init routines into tclcad or something). this "should" fix the "gui" error.
03:09.14``Erikreal name, shell preference, and mebbe ssh pub keys, otherwise he'd have to make you a temp passwd
03:09.25brlcadstarseeker: they?
03:09.39starseekerWhoever hosts bz and pays for bandwidth
03:09.45brlcad.bz is not a gov't server
03:09.52brlcadah, then 'they' == 'me' :)
03:09.54``Erik'they' is brlcad
03:09.54starseekerAh :-)
03:10.25``Erik(though I might try to do something with the machine that I might feel obligated to hand brlcad a little scratch for in the future...."
03:10.44brlcadit's got several names that point to it at this point, the fqdn of the primary ip is bz.bzflag.bz
03:11.13``Erikbrlcad, did I miss anything in my list of info?
03:11.14brlcadthough it's also my.brlcad.org, ftp.brlcad.org, and a couple dozen other names
03:11.40brlcadwhat list of info?
03:11.50``Erikreal name, shell, ssh pub key...
03:12.00``Eriklike, 2 minutes ago...
03:12.12``Erikfucking attention span of a squirrel on speed
03:12.14brlcadoh, I missed that (rather, i've only skimmed my logs
03:12.20``Erik:D
03:12.30brlcadah, there it be after cia
03:12.51brlcadwhich, luckily we don't have one of the broken cia bots
03:13.18brlcadone of them is rather dead and has been for many days now, scanline's been pretty latent in doing anything about it
03:14.11brlcadyeah, that's almost everything
03:42.30``ErikI installed a bunch of stuff, btu I didn't do "setup", which should just be copying files
03:43.14``Erikuh
03:43.23``Erik18% faster than the old machine???
03:43.47brlcadyeah :/
03:43.48``Erikoohhhh, wait
03:43.57brlcadcpu
03:43.59``Erikit was already a reasonably fast machine
03:44.05``Erik2.4 celery
03:44.08brlcadyeah, it's not too shabby
03:44.19``ErikI dunno what I was thinking it was like a 667mhz
03:44.24brlcadwent from 2.4 celery to 2.4 penguin
03:46.24``Erikjust a p4
03:46.32``Eriknot like ya stepped up to an opteron
03:47.55``Erikall the accounts are 'migrated'? sans home dir?
03:51.39brlcadgubby mint connotation wasn't implied :)
03:51.45``Erikheh
03:51.46``Erikwell
03:52.04``Erikpenguin ain't a gov't co, they just got real lucky selling some silly-cone
03:52.13brlcadyep, all accounts work like a charm now .. migrating the filessytems this weekend
03:53.05``Erikin I think '99, I wrote an opengl screen saver for a company doing high perofrmance linux stuff
03:53.34``ErikI dont' even remembertheir name
03:54.03``Erikbut they were based in kc, several of my local buddies went up there to work for them, they kinda snuck me the ss dealie
03:54.38``Erikwanted their logo displayed over apool of rippling water... I added a couple moving lights influenced by a mutual gravity type algorithm
03:54.53``Erikthen a couple formed another company in kansas to compete
03:55.21``Erikand one of them went and committed suicide :(
03:55.51``Erik'atipa' in kc,
03:58.09starseekerAnd here it is, thanks to brlcad - a Multics tarball :-)
03:58.20starseekerhttp://my.bzflag.bz/~starseeker/
04:01.45``Erikbrlcad, I put our mortal accounts in the wheel group... Idunno who else is on admit, but it might be worth making that disappear
04:04.56brlcadmaking what disappear?
04:05.05brlcadoh, making admin disappear
04:05.12brlcadyeah, mebbie
04:05.26starseekerWell, now all we need is a Multics hardware simulator and we can try reliving the glory days on Multics with BRL-CAD ;-)
04:05.34brlcadthough I usually put an impossible password on that and use that when I have to give the ISP a user/pass to fix things
04:05.49starseekerHehehe
04:24.04CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/bwish/main.c: match what mged does order-wise
04:29.56``ErikI assume that the set of people with access to that file is greater than 2
04:41.31brlcadyep
04:42.14brlcadit'll go through surges of completion, my goal is to be done by the end of this month
04:42.22brlcadso a bunch this weekend and next
05:07.07poolioHmm, could I ask a question re: svn organization?
05:07.25brlcadgo for it
05:08.05brlcadthere's two main common techniques
05:08.11brlcads/techniques/structures/
05:09.06poolioSo I'm working on a project with a bunch of people, and the established method they have is each sub-project has its own branch, and when their code is stable they commit it to trunk. The issue I am having is that it's a pain to download an entirely diferent branch when you want to see their stuff and you end up with like 20 different branches
05:10.03poolioIs that considered a normal practice?
05:19.45brlcadthere's no universal practice, that's not unheard of in the least
05:20.22brlcadjust rather heavy-process undoubtedly to maintain the trunk as stable as possible
05:21.00CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r298 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: add echo support
05:24.18``Erikum, I know with cvs, the usual behavior I've seen is most hot development happens in head
05:24.42``Erikreleases are either rbanchend or tagged (big ones branch, sometimes two levels like fbsd)
05:25.16``Erikany radical 'subproject' might get a branch, sometimes in a different VCS
05:25.34``Erikfbsd has a lot of 'radicals' in perforce, for example
05:29.27brlcadthat's also in part because branches are more of a bitch in cvs than svn, so they're more minimized
05:30.07brlcadsvn isn't great on the branches, but it does do at least improve upon how easy it is to maintain a branch and merge
05:31.07brlcadbut i've heard that same sub-project structure in cvs where each dev maintains a branch
05:31.38brlcadjust a matter of familiarity/comfort with the level of effort, and the stability/integration tradeoffs
05:32.17brlcadwhich apparently isn't your cup of tea, but if there are already that many devs working that way, then they're probably quite accustomed to that process (asuming the project is active)
05:34.22brlcadhm, did just verify that yukonbob's bad pixels are floating point fuzz
05:38.45CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r299 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws
05:40.03``Erikif you go branch heavy, EVERYONE needs to be damn good at resolving conflicts
05:40.17``Erikotherwise, everyone needs to be good and updating and commiting often
05:40.23brlcadyeah
05:40.24CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r300 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws2
05:41.07brlcadit'd suck for my taste to go to that extent, but I can easily see projects/people that'd go that route for grandios claims
05:41.28CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r301 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: ws 3
05:43.08CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r302 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: still more whitespace
05:45.07poolioYeah, it's firmly established, and I'm just a new freshmen so it's not likely that I can make them change. It works for them though, just has been kinda a pain to keep track of and see what the different senior members are working on
05:45.14poolioAnd thanks for the replies guys :)
05:46.41CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r303 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: Add CIA echo capability
05:49.53``Erikblah
05:50.09CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r304 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: only parse the master if we aren't doing an echo
05:51.58CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r305 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: log the target channel on an echo
06:04.07CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r306 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/readme.txt: mention echos
06:04.52CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r307 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: allow more then one CIA echo target per input channel and project
06:17.41CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r309 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCUserManager.cpp: do a safer erase that won't geek windows on a user part.
06:39.00CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r311 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: if the line in the channel dosn't have a : then don't even try to parse it for a CIA echo
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13:27.54CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/qray.c: Mods to use librt's qray routines. This fixes the inability to adjust the format strings and shrinks MGED's code base a tiny bit. Note - after testing on unix the if'ed out code can be removed.
13:29.42CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Expose a few more functions in librt.
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14:20.45brlcadhowdy poolio
14:21.44CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: Added a few more projects.
14:22.10pooliomornin'
14:25.41``Erikyargh, matey
14:27.30poolioAll my classes are slowly but surely filling up and I can't register for another hour
14:27.36pooliogrargh.
14:31.41``Erikthat's usually the way it goes... seniority gets first stab...
14:32.03CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Initial check-in.
14:32.49``Erikhave ya figured out the full dependancy graph to figure out what classes you need to take first to keep your total stay short?
14:33.15``ErikI had to load up on math early on, didn't do much cs the first year
14:34.33CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (btclsh/btclsh.vcproj bwish/bwish.vcproj): Increase optimization.
14:34.33``Erikheh, by the time I finish an update and build, bob checks in smething else, so I have to do it again O.o :D
14:34.54poolioslow poke.
14:34.59Defcon:D
14:35.29``ErikI'm doing a cvs -qz3 up -Pd at the top level dir, I'm sure if I'd cd into where he's making a mess, it'd go faster
14:35.49``Erikand when he changes something like, y'know, raytrace.h ...
14:37.32CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Turn off debugging.
14:39.26CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Add 12 more projects.
14:46.28CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob enabled/fixed the embedded framebuffer in the windows port and has added a slew of other missing utilities (too many to enumerate, but it's all of the ray-tracers).
14:47.55``Erikbah
14:48.28``ErikI finally get the winderz box back on the net, call hlepdesk to get my email passwd reset, and the entire site is having an email outage
14:49.10``Erikaccepting exchange for the calendar stuff was a mistake :/
14:49.23``Erikshoulda stuck with good old unix mail, it 'just works'
15:30.41PrezKennedywish we could use some unix boxes here
15:30.50PrezKennedyfor essential stuff
15:35.36``Eriknice http://qdb.us/101461
15:36.37``Erikwhen I was at school, I got to watch 6 old aix boxes get replaced with "a couple" shiney new fast NT boxes
15:37.00``Erikby the time the functionality was back to the same level for 'critical' services like email and web, there were over 300 nt servers
15:40.43PrezKennedyone for each person?
15:40.44PrezKennedy:-)
15:41.09``Erikclose to one for every ten people, I think, I dunno
15:42.46``Erik(and the cs and math depts propped up their own servers, so they could stay useful... cs had a dual core fbsd beasty, math had a cheap desktop type running linux)
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16:59.34Z80-Boy``Erik: there are serious problem with accuracy of what rt-edge produces
16:59.41Z80-Boy``Erik: like it sometimes leaves out whole edges
16:59.52Z80-Boy``Erik: is there any remedy to that?
17:04.35``Erikum, make your thing bigger for raytracing?
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17:11.54SkunkyFunky``Erik: but it leaves out edges which are not minuscule at all and the cylinders between which they are are also major cylinders in the model.
17:13.02``Erikum, iirc, it looks for a neighbor hit distance and uses a fixed distance to see if it should call that an edge... and I think it might just look at horizontal neighbors :/
17:22.38SkunkyFunkyI
17:22.46SkunkyFunkyI'll post the picture later the edge is 45 degrees
17:31.32brlcadSkunkyFunky: do you know the depth across the edge?
17:31.42brlcadit's an absolute size, iirc
17:32.00brlcadso if you're model is small, it won't see the edge
17:32.14``Erikman that is freakin' ugly code :(
17:32.19brlcadthere's not presently a run-time way to change that depth (would be a good mod to make)
17:32.43brlcadmeh, didn't think it was all that horrible
17:33.25brlcadeasy enough to understand regardless
17:38.23SkunkyFunkybrlcad: 10mm or so
17:38.28SkunkyFunkyand the thing is like 700mm big
17:38.59brlcadthat's probably why
17:39.08``Erikscale it up to rtedge
17:39.10``Eriklike
17:39.10SkunkyFunkyHow big is the hardcoded constant?
17:39.17``Erik10-20m big
17:39.28SkunkyFunky10-20 meters?
17:40.04``Erikyeah, that should fix it :D
17:40.08SkunkyFunkybut that's a design relying on arbitrary constants, that cannot work reliably by principle
17:40.18``Erikyes, it sucks, it needs to be fixed
17:41.14SkunkyFunkycan it be done without the constant by principle at all?
17:41.33SkunkyFunkydoes anyone have jdk-1_5_0_10-linux-i586.bin?
17:41.41brlcadSkunkyFunky: it's not a hardcoded constant
17:41.43SkunkyFunkyLFS needs it but the Sun downloads don't have it anymore/
17:41.47brlcadit's based on the cell size
17:41.49SkunkyFunkybrlcad: where can it be set?
17:41.53SkunkyFunkybrlcad: what's a cell size?
17:41.58brlcadin the code, look for this:
17:41.59brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:42.04brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:42.09brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:42.17brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:42.19brlcad<PROTECTED>
17:42.38SkunkyFunkywhere does 87 come from? An universal extraterrestrial constant?
17:43.28brlcadwould have to look at lgt
17:43.50brlcadprobably just derived from experimental sampling of vehicles
17:44.06brlcadvalue is of course, 19.08
17:44.09SkunkyFunkyMy Ronja is not a vehicle that's the problem
17:44.13brlcadyep
17:44.16brlcada long known issue
17:44.23SkunkyFunkyHow many wheels do I have to implement to become a vehicle?
17:44.28brlcadlike I said, it'd be a great mod to make
17:44.52SkunkyFunkyI could make a field Ronja with 4 balooney wheels
17:45.10SkunkyFunkyor with caterpillar tracks for better traction in swampy terrains
17:45.15brlcadwasn't just vehicles, probably just a random sampling of models
17:45.23brlcadbut then I'm just entirely guessing
17:45.37brlcadrtedge guy took it from lgt, lgt does back 15+ years
17:45.55SkunkyFunkyand back then they tossed a coin
17:46.15SkunkyFunkyor a cow or whatever was used for payment at that times ;-)
17:47.00brlcadflipping a coin and get 87, don't think so
17:47.38SkunkyFunkyI just got an idea of acoustic burglar alarm based on speaker-microphone feedback
17:48.04SkunkyFunkyPut a microphone and speaker into some space and when a person passes they create a reflection which reflects with >1 loop gain and oscillation is created
17:48.17SkunkyFunkybrlcad: maybe they flipped a 100 dollar bill and got 87?
17:48.26SkunkyFunkyfrom the devaluation? ;-)
17:49.14SkunkyFunkyor 2 speakers transmitting in opposite phase and a microphone just between them
17:49.37SkunkyFunkywith high gain. In clear state it zeroes out almost perfectly and when someone breaks the acoustic field it starts a shrill
17:49.39brlcadcommit message from gary moss (back in '88) was simply "Added distance discriminant map to hiddenline drawing model."
17:50.00SkunkyFunkybrlcad: isn't this constant an inevitable part of the algorithm?
17:50.13SkunkyFunkybrlcad: or is it a way to identify an edge without any constant?
17:50.21SkunkyFunkyI mean of course dynamically calculated constant as you said
17:50.42brlcadeither way, it's been a long-known limitation that it's cellsize dependent -- what it means, though, is that you may be able to generate a bigger image to get the edge (add an edge thickness)
17:51.16brlcadSkunkyFunky: edges are determined (in rtedge) via multiple checks, depth simply being the main driver for most models
17:51.18SkunkyFunkybrlcad: bigger image you mean more pixels by more pixels?
17:51.26brlcadsharp changes in curvature will do it too
17:51.31brlcadyes
17:51.53SkunkyFunkybrlcad: I cannot find the edge thickness in brlman rtedge
17:52.16SkunkyFunky-c   Set special rtedge configuration variables
17:52.20SkunkyFunkyIs it one of them?
17:52.56brlcadthe fix is to just make it a settable depth since there's not really a good way to determine the edges desired for arbitrary models without brep conversion
17:53.01CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: minor clean-up
17:53.05brlcadyeah, it's a -c var
17:53.59brlcadi think
17:54.14SkunkyFunkycan't find it
17:55.32brlcadah, my mistake, no such option
17:55.48SkunkyFunky:(
17:55.51SkunkyFunkyThat would be handy
17:56.05brlcadyou can still generate the larger image and it should give the edge if sufficiently big
17:56.20brlcadassuming you don't exceed the max image dimensions of course
17:56.26SkunkyFunkyyes but how do I make the edge thicker before downsampling the image to overlay with the raytraced model?
17:56.31SkunkyFunkywhich is?
17:56.36SkunkyFunky(another hardcoded constat?)
17:56.56SkunkyFunkyis there some pixspread or pixerode program?
17:57.00SkunkyFunkyor pixgrow
17:57.08SkunkyFunkypixshrink
17:58.23brlcadthe max "should" be uint x uint (so about 2billion x 2billion) but there are various temp buffers throughout that haven't been all weeded out yet, so practically it's probably more like 64k x 64k
17:59.07brlcadeither way, it's more than photoshop could handle before CS came out :)
17:59.09SkunkyFunkythat's enough
17:59.19SkunkyFunkyCounterstrike?
17:59.25brlcadPhotoshop CS
17:59.33SkunkyFunkyCzechoslovak edition?
17:59.43brlcadbeats me, google it up
18:00.22brlcadfor your purpose, you really could just use the configurable depth
18:00.34brlcadthere ya go
18:01.26SkunkyFunkybrlcad: but the the edges are jagged anyway
18:01.38SkunkyFunkyoften looks good but often looks ugly too
18:01.44CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/viewedge.c: allow users to set arbitrary distance threshholds
18:01.48SkunkyFunkyis the rtedge substantially faster than rt?
18:01.55SkunkyFunky``Erik: Thanks :)
18:02.13SkunkyFunkyO.O
18:03.10brlcadSkunkyFunky: yes, rtedge does considerably less work than rt
18:03.20brlcadso it's faster in what it does
18:05.18SkunkyFunkybrlcad: did you find out why that model was 291x slower than the other ones?
18:06.12``Erikthink that deserves a NEWS line?
18:06.13brlcadthe reason was exactly what john mentioned
18:06.17brlcad``Erik: definitely does
18:06.48brlcadevery user-visible non-dev change
18:07.01brlcaddon't forget the manpage ;)
18:07.03CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtedge.1: mention the new max_dist option
18:07.19``Erikhuh?
18:07.20``Erikthe what?
18:07.48brlcad:)
18:08.03``Erik<-- had already hit enter on the commit when he asked if it was worth NEWS... :)
18:08.07CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: mention max_dist option for rtedge
18:09.47``Eriksome, um, interesting little details... it doesn't buffer anything up, so the edge 'detection' only uses two pixels, the one immediately below and the one to the left O.o
18:10.32brlcadyeah, ron talked about that way back when
18:11.00brlcadit was enough just to get it working at the time, he had all sorts of plans for improving it..
18:11.09``Erikheh
18:41.33CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r313 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp:
18:41.33CIA-27libirc: save off the echo settings on a flush
18:42.01CIA-27libirc: add command to set echos in realtime
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19:31.46yukonbobhello, whirled
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20:38.22Z80-Boybrlcad: actually rt takes 1.6 sec and rtedge 3.18 sec CPU time
20:38.52Z80-BoyI have noticed there seems to be some kind of preparation phase before the raytracing itself. And this takes significant amount of time.
20:39.10Z80-BoyCan this time be saved if I have the same geometry and output just different azimuths?
20:46.18Z80-Boyclock@kestrel:~$ anim_script -a 10
20:46.18Z80-BoySegmentation fault (core dumped)
20:46.19Z80-BoyOuch
21:59.52*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-065-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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22:00.58*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
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22:01.46starseekerwee
22:08.44``Erikaa heh
22:08.51``Erikrfc1459, yo :D
22:11.21CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for fchmod()
22:11.40CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't have fchmod or _fchmod apparently
22:14.49CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/iwidgets/pkgIndex.tcl: according to the sources, this is still 4.0.1
22:16.47CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fchmod.c: rework bu_fchmod() to use HAVE_FCHMOD feature, falling back to chmod if it's not available. add missing footer. convert to unix line endings.
22:18.50*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.110.131)
22:50.00CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/bwish/ (cadAppInit.c winMain.c): dos->unix line terminators
22:50.18``Erik<-- not gonna dork with the 3 in libz
23:03.57Z80-BoySome outlined drawings
23:03.58Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/par_welded_cut_0.png
23:04.30Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/headcut_0.png
23:16.14brlcadZ80-Boy: I figured you were doing that :)
23:16.15brlcadnice
23:16.25brlcadhave you played with rtwizard?
23:21.28bpoolealloo
23:22.17Z80-Boybrlcad: no
23:22.46Z80-BoyAlso this http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/railing_0.png
23:23.16Z80-Boyand this http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/plazmatron_0.png
23:23.35brlcadalloo bpoole
23:24.13Z80-Boyand this http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new_0.png
23:24.42brlcadyeah, the main reason it's drawing the edges that it's drawing is because the normal vector for the neighbors is drasticly different
23:25.13brlcadthe ones it's not drawing have the same orientation
23:25.36Z80-BoyHere you can see where the edge is left out on the cylinders between brown and grey http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_0.png
23:26.27brlcadhep, the curvature matchs
23:26.31Z80-BoyOn this one you can see it's making up dots on the rim http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/rear_cap_0.png
23:26.44brlcadthe more you go up that curve, the more they diverge
23:27.32Z80-Boyon this one you can see some kind of double-dotted line it made up in a place where is no edge: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/mast_0.png
23:27.52bpoolebrlcad: so, thanksgiving I think I'm going to re-read my code and try to maybe start working on beset again, for real this time :)
23:27.55Z80-BoyIf it considers a transition from straight plane into a curved one an edge then it should print a solid edge and not double dotted one
23:28.36Z80-BoyThe pattern is actually .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . or something like that interesting
23:28.53brlcadit's because of the change in the normal
23:29.01Z80-BoyAnd also made up couple of randomly placed dots around the object
23:29.03brlcadfloating point fuzz -- it's right on the edge
23:29.25brlcadtweaking the curvature angle would make that line solid or disappear
23:29.36brlcad(not in the model, in rtedge)
23:29.45Z80-Boythere is no angle the rounded surface is tangential to the straight one
23:30.05brlcadthere is a normal angle
23:30.14brlcadfor every pixel that hits something
23:30.20Z80-Boyand what are the two black dots just above the top edge on the white U channel?
23:30.23brlcadit uses that angle to determine hit
23:30.35Z80-BoyThere is nothing at that place that could be misinterpreted it's just a solid rpp
23:32.21brlcadnot obvious for the points on the top, not clear, could be the edge of some negative primitive that is getting sorted in front
23:32.34brlcadcausing a perturbed normal for just those few pixels
23:32.57brlcadrelated to the issue yukonbob was seeing in his render
23:33.29brlcadthe other "spots" though are on a a curvature end/start point where there is a change
23:33.41Z80-BoyBut there is no doubt that if you have a straight surface where there are no edges or seams between primitives that there is no edge!
23:34.30brlcadi'm not disagreeing with you on the top ones
23:34.45brlcadthe ones, however, where curvature starts, however, is quite debateable
23:34.51Z80-BoyAnd the little yellow edge right of the blue pipe is partly missing, although the shading on both sides is visibly different
23:34.59Z80-BoyIs it because normals are too similar?
23:35.00brlcadmost cad systems *will* show you bot the beginning and end of that inside blend
23:35.30Z80-BoyWell they should either show nothing or a solid edge and not a broken one
23:35.44brlcadsure
23:35.49Z80-Boycause the whole interface is translation symmetric so the output should be also translation symmetric
23:35.58brlcadit's just numerically working out that way due to floating point fuzz
23:36.25brlcadthere's very little you can do about it when you're on the boundary of the curvature value, other than change the value
23:36.37Z80-BoyI thought all those minimum-angle minimum-distance constatnts are there to suppress the floating point fuzz
23:36.46Z80-BoyBTW floating point behaves in an astonishing way.
23:37.04brlcadit's not there to suppress floating point, it's there to detect the edge
23:37.17Z80-BoyFor example float a; <something> printf("%G\n",a); printf("%G\n",a); once gave me two different results which differed in the last digit
23:37.20brlcadwe're dealing with implicit prims, so there is no actual edge other than the one sampled
23:37.40brlcadthat's not astonishing, it's the way it is
23:37.48Z80-BoyYes, the value of the floating point variable can change without any write into the variable!
23:38.20brlcadyou would also then be astonished how much code is actually dedicated to trying to manage floating point fuzz in all the computations...
23:38.40Z80-BoyI am not surprised I once tried to write a doom-like game engine ;-)
23:38.49Z80-BoyThat's where I stroke that illogical behaviour
23:38.59brlcadyes, it can, particularly if it's not a representable value and might depend upon which registers it's loaded into or how the floating point unit operates
23:39.50Z80-Boyit was a normal number
23:39.53Z80-Boysay like 1.38 or so
23:40.05brlcadthat doesn't mean it's representable
23:41.21brlcad1000.2 is not a representable number, for example, for a float
23:41.30brlcadyet it's perfectly "normal"
23:42.29Z80-BoyIf it were calculated in fixed point then at least a==a would be valid
23:42.41Z80-Boyand not that it would print two different numbers without a write into the variable.
23:43.07Z80-BoyFloating point behaves a bit like analogue compuiter
23:43.57brlcadeven .1 isn't representable
23:45.33Z80-Boy.1 .2 .3 .4 .6 .7 .8 .9
23:46.57Z80-BoyReal numbers are just a school illusion
23:47.01Z80-BoyAs well as integers.
23:48.06Z80-BoyKids are taught to think about the world in terms of something that cannot exist by principle
23:49.10brlcadit exists within a tolerance ;)
23:51.23Z80-BoyHere the results are not very good either http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/hardware_1.png
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071116

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071116

00:00.00brlcadwow, that sure is ugly :)
00:04.42``Eriknifty
00:36.31CIA-27libirc: 03brlcad * r317 10/trunk/libirc/include/IRCUserManager.h: eof newline
00:46.33*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
00:47.05yukonbobhello, cadders.
00:48.14``Erikyargh, matey, shiver me timbers
00:48.41``Erikhttp://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/2135204    
00:48.41``Erikhttp://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/15/1611208  
00:48.55``Erik(for those that don't imbibe regularly)
00:53.49CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r319 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: no longer log when we get a part message.
00:56.32``Erikhrm
00:56.46``ErikegEnable(EG_GRIPE_MODE);
00:57.09``Erikare you not in #libirc? must those who don't give a flying fuck about libirc see the cia msg's? :D
00:57.14``ErikegDisable(EG_GRIPE_MODE);
00:59.38CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r320 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: check the params and settings before we try to parse private messages to make sure they are valid
01:00.22bpoolebrings a new meaning to commit early, commit often. like every 10 minutes :)
01:00.43``Erik<-- just being a dick, it don't really bother me... :)
01:01.26``ErikI've seen more irc libs than I care to look at, and know too much of rfc1459 to be considered 'healthy' or 'sane'
01:01.54``Erikso these msgs' are just 'one thing to burn cycles for an "ignore" in the cognative filter'
01:10.03CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r322 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: don't do a message on kick, it's stupid and chashes when it's YOU that gets kicked
01:15.53CIA-27libirc: 03brlcad * r323 10/trunk/libirc/ (4 files in 4 dirs): test
01:16.29*** join/#brlcad rpaddock (n=bob_padd@c-24-131-109-50.hsd1.oh.comcast.net)
01:17.32brlcadyukonbob: howdy!
01:17.36brlcadgoodbad news :)
01:18.01brlcadI know what causes those specs now
01:18.58brlcadit's related to floating point tolerance on the negative arb being used to get the inside of that torus (which is pretty damn creative if I do say so myself)
01:19.54brlcadrelated to how segments are weaved and how it ends up with an infinitely thin "cut" segment along the inside of that cylinder that tweaks the normal ever so slightly
01:20.24brlcadtalking with another one of the devs sometime soon to see if/what we can do about it .. very core/hard problem that goes back to a really old issue
01:21.55CIA-27libirc: 03brlcad * r324 10/trunk/libirc/TODO: test
01:43.06CIA-27libirc: 03brlcad * r326 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/sample.cfg: test
01:45.36``ErikO.o
01:46.15``Erikhuh
01:46.59``ErikI hopped on #awos cuz it looked kinda interesting... lotta folk there also on #bzflag, #bzpod, #bzw, #bzfx, #bzflag, ...
01:50.39*** join/#brlcad rdv (n=rdv@ool-44c79849.dyn.optonline.net)
01:52.35CIA-27libirc: 03brlcad * r328 10/trunk/libirc/src/ircBasicCommands.cpp: oops, didn't intend to commmit the commented-out processing of privmsg
01:53.10yukonbobbrlcad: hey :)
01:54.19brlcadawilcox is a bzflagger
01:54.58yukonbobbrlcad: re: floating point -- !!!That was my guess...
01:55.53brlcadyeah, it's in a bizzare backwards way
01:57.02brlcadit doesn't matter that the cut/intersect object is in negative space .. it doesn't know the boolean until it's time to weave segments
01:58.39yukonbobreminds _me_ of dealing with financial numbers, where nothing of significance is done w/ floating point, but instead use decimal floats instead of binary -- does any of that sound interesting for this case?
01:59.29brlcadit's interesting, just not highly practical :)
01:59.59brlcaddoing fixed point math of any sort kills performance, as that is at the core of the ray-intersection engine
02:00.21yukonbobya -- unless there's a specific version for the IBM z80 :P
02:00.29brlcadheh, true
02:00.54yukonbobwell, it is a goodnews/badnews situation isn't it :)
02:07.36*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
02:13.56``Erik'winny', too
02:15.07brlcadah
02:15.16brlcadhe's a punk kid ;)
02:15.32brlcadgood intentions but a lot to learn still
02:21.01``Erikwhich? winny? or wilcox?
02:21.01``Erikboth kinda seem like punk kids to me :D
02:25.50``Erikthat commercial claimed it was a flatbread, but it sure didn't look like a flat bread... (quiznos "sammies")
02:27.12rdvdoes anyone know if brlcad has been used for image-based modeling (2D to 3D)?
02:31.03brlcadrdv: not directly that I'm aware of
02:31.21brlcada great research area, one we've often talked about getting into
02:31.37``Erikheh, didn't you submit a dri on that?
02:31.42brlcadyep
02:33.00``ErikI think the implications of how that could be applied would push me away form that...
02:33.01brlcadI'm pretty sure I could have made it work too
02:33.16brlcadat least to a proof of concept level
02:33.39brlcadyeah, kinda freaky uses if the system was solid
02:33.47``Erikmaking better armor is all grand, but making better bullets...
02:34.07brlcadespecially as it became reasonably near real-time
02:35.19brlcadit'll all converge one day anyways
02:35.48brlcadmaybe I'll do my thesis on it or something instead
02:35.51rdvwell ImageModeler and PhotoModeler exist already for those who have freaky uses in mind :)
02:36.02rdvnot sure how powerful they are though
02:36.12brlcadrdv: he's talking about a research direction we almost took down that path
02:36.28brlcadpretty automatic 3D acquisition from video
02:36.58rdvis this a university or an independent lab?
02:37.03brlcadi've used image modeler, it's pretty nifty albeit exceptionally manual and time-intensive
02:37.14brlcadindep. lab
02:37.21``Erikgov't lab
02:37.55idaybrlcad: thesis?
02:38.43brlcadyeah.. a little ways off still, but on my mind
02:38.50``Erikiday == jay-lo?
02:39.16idayyup
02:39.30``Eriksinger with the 'badonkadonk'? O.o heh :D
02:39.37``Erikhah
02:39.41``Erikgaffagan or something
02:39.46idayum... no
02:39.50idaythats missy
02:39.51``Erikgaffigan
02:39.58``Erikhooooooot pockets
02:40.11``Erikso, uh, dude, a mini for your icon? DORK!
02:40.16brlcaderm, my comment is because I'm munching on some hot pockets atm :)
02:40.21iday? oh... aim
02:40.46idayand, what, an m3 is cool? so 90s
02:40.50``Erikheh
02:40.56``ErikI drive it, I don't make it my icon
02:41.13idayit was in a pinch.. better than a leaf
02:41.39``Erikhum, I think I'm using a southpark icon
02:41.46``Erikother places, I use a hal9000 icon :)
02:41.48brlcadmm, i'd go for a mini icon :P
02:41.50idaymr. brlcad didn't answer my question...
02:42.00``Erikyeah, he's an elusive little bitch
02:42.02idayi've seen that one... nice
02:42.14brlcadmaaa'aan.. take a look at that mini .. that suckers HUGE!
02:42.27idayuh huuuh...
02:42.54idayalthough i do like brlcad's "Combat" tank
02:42.57``Erikwhen I worked at fedex, I was using freebsd on my desktop, used um,sawfish and bits of gnome, turned the gnome panel black and put it on the right, make the background black and had a hal eye in the middle of my screen :)
02:43.02brlcaduhh thaank ya .. thank yaa very much
02:43.07idayhehe
02:43.10``ErikI don't think I have brlcad on aim or yahoo
02:43.32brlcadthey're the devil
02:43.37idayhah
02:43.52idayuse jabber then
02:43.58``Erikjay-lo, um, "linked in"?
02:44.10idayhuh?
02:44.14brlcadthe site?
02:44.33``Eriklatest 'social network'
02:44.42``Erikmore geared for... y'know, grownups... i think :D
02:44.45idayno - i don't really do any of those...
02:45.06idayanything is for grownup compared to the likes of myshiite..
02:45.08``ErikI got an invite from old cow orkers, so I succumbed
02:45.08brlcadyeah, it's a prof. connections site .. kinda pointless unless you're job hunting maybe
02:45.18brlcadbeen up for a few years
02:45.25``Erikheh, um
02:45.32``Erikdiesel sweeties mocked all that just recently
02:45.35brlcadnot nearly as fun as ohloh or amihotornot
02:45.49``Erikhttp://www.dieselsweeties.com/
02:45.58``Erikheh
02:46.30``ErikI remember in the very early days of 'ratemyrack' (thinkin' hotornot)... someone got a high score with a pick of a 19" rack loaded with gear...
02:47.02idayyou and your funky sites... like the kitties... jeez... the kitties, man!
02:47.16``Erikhahahaha
02:47.26``Erikicanhascheezburger.com !!!
02:47.29``Erikhow can you not love it???
02:47.32idayha!
02:47.39brlcadclay kitten shooting?
02:47.50``ErikI mean
02:47.50idaytrying to get my damn neural network to learn XOR... not converging for some reason...
02:48.05``Erik"cute" pics, lamer geek humor... ... :D
02:48.10brlcadah
02:48.14``Erikthat's funny
02:48.28``ErikI drug up my "box o' goodies" like half an hour ago
02:48.28idaydid you see the xkcd?
02:48.34``Erikxkcd is on my daily list
02:48.39``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php
02:49.03``Erik<-- tryin gto decide what ic's to put on his breadboard... the 16f88, or a few 74 series ttl's
02:49.03idaymrs roberts?
02:49.11starseekerbrlcad:  Where would you want to do your phd at?
02:49.25idaybrlcad: phd?
02:49.37idaybrlcad: ANSWER ME :-)
02:50.02iday``Erik: must punch brlcad the next time you see him
02:50.07``Erikum
02:50.13``Erikhe might punch back
02:50.17starseekerlol
02:50.18idayso?
02:50.22``Erikand if ya hain't noticed, there may be a slight muscle mass difference
02:50.35idaycome on - just drink some beer beforehand...
02:50.59brlcadiday: I did answer!
02:51.07``ErikI don't get THAT stupid after imbibing, dude
02:51.14brlcad"yeah.. a little ways off still, but on my mind"
02:51.34starseekerIs John Hopkins a candidate for that sort of work?
02:51.53idaydoh... musta missed it  :(
02:52.04idaywhich is?
02:52.07brlcadi was looking at schools all weekend
02:52.31brlcadall spawned by an ad I ran across for a uni that specializes in alife
02:52.41``ErikI don't want to nickle and dime my way to a masters, I'd want to go on hiatus and commit myself, at some place like cmu or stanford
02:52.57idayahh
02:53.00brlcadstarseeker: not the classes I'd take, it's not fun if it's something I already know
02:53.06idayyeah... a bit hard to do that anywhere...
02:53.08``Erikstarseeker: I think brlcad is good enough to understand how to learn
02:53.47``Erikwhen I was doing my undergrad work, I figured out what profs knewwhat and bugged them after hours for the extra yard
02:53.48brlcadi lern good
02:53.52``Erik"gud"
02:54.07``Eriklurn how tew spll
02:54.11``Erikheh
02:54.15idaycoledge stoodint
02:54.16brlcadguuda chese
02:54.32starseekerbrlcad:  Heh.  You might get drafted - being a grad student kinda sucks in the "free will" department...
02:54.33``Erikthere was jabber about how spelling is being taught at lunch yesterday...
02:54.52``Erikunfortunately, there's no good way to vocalize something like "hukt on fonix wurkd for me"
02:55.13``Erikmmmm gouda
02:56.01iday``Erik: probably headed to CMU myself
02:56.03``ErikI REALLY need to stop reading sites like folklore.org and paul grahams site
02:56.20``Erikum, hoolio is doing his bs there I think
02:56.29idayconsidering a leave of absence too
02:56.37idayhoolio?
02:56.44``Eriklast time I did my research, if languages and operating systems are your thing, it's really hard to beat cmu
02:56.53idayor robotics/ai!
02:56.57``Erikyeah, bpoole
02:57.08starseeker``Erik:  Wouldn't it have to pertain to CAD in some shape or form, for you to get the OK to do it?
02:57.28``Erikrobotics are fun, ai is neat, but I tend to work more towards fundamental theory of computation myself :/
02:57.35starseeker:-)
02:57.37iday:-)
02:58.10idayyeah - then you can write the 2-3 turing machine and prove it :-)
02:58.10brlcadstarseeker: not really
02:58.26``Erikheh, wanna copy of my 'brainfuck' suite? compilers, intepreter, and the beginnings of optimization stuff...
02:58.43starseekerbrlcad:  cool :-)
02:58.48idayurgh -- actually i was looking at llvm the other night
02:59.25idaymaybe do some language experimentation once i get finished with the classes
02:59.33``Erikmy thinking is that any 'solid' optimization on brainfuck could provide a solid theory/lemme grade optimization for any language
03:00.05idayperhaps - but the primitives are so limited... no real high-level concepts there
03:00.22``Erik'partial evaluation', a pretty complex notion, is represented pretty easily in bf
03:00.39starseekercmu is really good - their CMUCL lisp implementation and derivatives thereof are the best free lisps available for a lot of things
03:00.52``Erikbut it's not a PROVEN notion, and it's approached very ad hoc in practical optimization passes
03:01.13idayprove it and get a dissertation... done.
03:01.17idaylike nash
03:01.20``Erikif it were formalized at the low turing level, mebbe it'd find a much more mature invocation in 'pragmatic' languages
03:01.34``Erikcmucl seems ok, I've been looking more at sbcl myself...
03:01.47starseekersbcl is a derivative of cmucl
03:02.29``ErikI'm learning emacs and slime against sbcl
03:02.41starseekerThat's the right way to do it :-)
03:02.45idayoh my
03:02.45``Erik<-- is a schemer, so is having some trouble adapting to the language, PLUS a new editor (being a vimmer)
03:02.57idaydid Erik say he's touching emacs???
03:03.05``Erikyes, yes I did
03:03.08``Erikemacs 22 and slime
03:03.18idayagain, i say "oh, my"
03:03.20``Erikand I've griped to brlcad about the suckiness of it
03:03.24idayhah
03:03.29``Erikbut I'm sticking with it
03:03.31idayi'm sure he's appreciated your rants
03:04.07``Erikeven though watching brlcad use emacs to edit a shell script on a projector made me definitely think that either emacs sucks ass or he sucks at using it... *cough* O:-)
03:04.08brlcadiday: have you seen the new aquaemacs?
03:04.19brlcadi just saw it today, installed it for bob...
03:04.31brlcaddamn if it didn't finally seem usable and fully properly integrated
03:04.56idayi've been using it for several years - and yes I have the new one (unless there's a new one in the last month)
03:05.15brlcadi don't mean the original aqua emacs that was on sf.net and elsewhere
03:05.19idayexcept they screwed up the configuration again
03:05.25idayi know
03:05.35brlcadhttp://aquamacs.org
03:05.39idayyou mean aquamacs
03:05.41idayyes
03:05.42brlcadyeah
03:05.50brlcadslick
03:05.59starseeker``Erik:  I have my beefs with Emacs, but the sense I get is that for many purposes it's so much better than anything else that people use it rather than do what it would take to make a better one...
03:06.04brlcadf'ing stupid icon, butgood port
03:06.11idayyeah - the only thing i use for non-java coding
03:06.21brlcadstupid cowhorse with poney tails
03:06.22idayno kidding
03:06.35``Erikheh
03:06.36idayha
03:06.42``Erikum
03:06.54``Erikyes, it has its purpose... lemme find a url for ya...
03:07.21brlcadi might actually want to stop using console emacs sometime
03:07.24starseeker``Erik:  What's driving you to learn lisp?
03:07.55brlcadhe's a scheme nut, using lisp makes him seem slightly less insane
03:08.13``Erikum, long term scheme appreciation, and things like "mod-lisp"
03:08.20CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r329 10/trunk/libirc/ (include/IRCClient.h src/IRCClient.cpp src/irClientEvents.cpp):
03:08.22CIA-27libirc: send the connection event when we first get some data, not when the MOTD is done.
03:08.24CIA-27libirc: This gives us the best possible state as early as possible.
03:08.28``ErikI want to use some kinda lithp backed system to figure out ajax
03:08.39``Erikand I want persistant globals across the threads
03:08.51starseekerAh :-)
03:10.09idaysomeone was already working on a lisp-based web framework using ajax... darned if i remember where i saw though - maybe off lemonodor?
03:11.28starseekerIs this the one?  http://www.holygoat.co.uk/applications/cl-ajax/cl-ajax
03:12.22starseekerOr if you're a hunchentoot fan:  http://85.65.214.241/misc/ht-ajax.html
03:12.57idaynot the same one i saw... it had a working demo... maybe defmacro - yeah looks like defmacro: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-weblocks/
03:13.58starseekeriday:  Nice
03:17.10CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
03:17.14CIA-27BRL-CAD: bob fixed a bug exposed with the opendb command where it would crash if you said
03:17.16CIA-27BRL-CAD: no to create a new file. it was a windows-specific bug related to trying to
03:17.18CIA-27BRL-CAD: close fd 0 (which happened to be the default descriptor value). now set to -1
03:17.20CIA-27BRL-CAD: and is checked.
03:17.34``Erikcl-ajax is the one I've been looking at, yes
03:17.49``Erik"nowadays"? dude, it's always been done
03:18.25``Erikum
03:18.32``Eriktake viaweb for example
03:18.35``Erikaka yahoo stores
03:18.47starseekerOh, the famous example of making money with lisp :-)
03:18.51``Erikpaul graham and robert morris
03:18.52``Erik:D
03:18.54``Erikwell
03:19.00``Erikratchet and clank might be more famous
03:19.06``Erikor autocad
03:20.06``Erikheh
03:20.14``Eriksomeone said something along the lines of, um
03:20.25``Erik"java drug the developers halfway to lisp"
03:20.32starseekerYes, Guy Steele
03:20.34idayhttp://www.lambdassociates.org/lC21.htm
03:20.42idayhehe
03:20.53starseekeriday:  Oh, you know about Qi? :-)
03:20.55``Erikoh, guy steele, yes
03:20.58``Erikthe scheme guy!
03:20.59``Erikhah
03:21.06idayhaven't played with it... but yeah
03:21.07starseekeriday:  I'm actually very interested in Qi
03:21.08``Erik<PROTECTED>
03:21.08``Erik<PROTECTED>
03:21.08``Erik<PROTECTED>
03:21.08``Erik<PROTECTED>
03:22.00idaystarseeker: i'm interesting in seeing phase 3
03:22.04idayinterested
03:22.25idayalthough I
03:22.39idayi'm unimpressed with Tk choice
03:22.46idaythat'
03:22.46starseekeriday:  Any strong mathematics system like Axiom needs a strongly typed language, and SPAD (Axiom's current language) isn't even well defined
03:22.52idaykinda turned me off
03:23.02starseekeryeah, I don't care about the tk part (sorry tk fans)
03:23.07idaystrongly typed you say...
03:23.08``Eriktcl has never thrilled me
03:23.27``ErikI dorked with it a little, thought it was lame, then got into thcheme, and viewed tcl has a halfassed wannabe :/
03:23.28idayyeah - i need to play with qi - just to see
03:23.44starseekeriday:  Aldor (www.aldor.org) was the replacement language for SPAD, and some would probably consider it the best mathematical programming language for a CAS available today, but they gummed up the license
03:24.11starseekerSo we can learn from Aldor, but can't use it :-(
03:24.59``Erikthe last couple days, I've been looking more at asm and javame :( I'm turning lame *cry*
03:25.02starseekerQi seems to have done many things the "right way" - implemented the new language inside lisp rather than having an external compiler, is willing to listen to and talk intelligently with critics
03:25.04brlcadiday: I think my arms are back to what they were, or really close
03:25.05idayinteresting... haven't played with too many algebra systems myself.
03:25.24starseekeriday:  It's my hobby obsession :-)
03:25.25idaybrlcad: bastard. well - come over and play with your godson then
03:25.32brlcad(at least in size, not strength quite yet)
03:25.40idaybrlcad: you can lift him up and down :-)
03:25.48``Erikheh
03:25.51brlcadbut I am le sore
03:25.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:26.12idayand I am le tired
03:26.17starseekeriday:  Started with Maxima, but once I learned enough to appreciate how really messed up (and theoretically weak) it was/is, Axiom seemed like the obvious choice
03:26.44starseekeriday:  Not that Axiom isn't messed up too, but at least it's theoretically closer to what a "proper" CAS should be...
03:26.46idaystarseeker: have played with maxima... but the interface was too clunky for me to get too into it
03:26.46``Erik'maxim'? the magazine? O.o
03:26.48``Erik:D
03:26.55``Erikoi, twiggly
03:26.58TwingyI haven't had hot pockets in ages
03:27.21Twingywhen you said maxim I was reminded of the maxim231 rs232 ttl cmos converter
03:27.22``Erik*smirk* and the fire alarm hasn't gone off in ages, go figure :D
03:27.26starseekeriday:  Yeah, that's a general problem with open source CAS
03:27.33``Erikheh
03:27.37starseekeriday:  Did you try the TeXmacs interface?
03:28.00starseekeror wxmaxima?  Those are probably the closest to tolerable
03:28.07Twingycept I'm using TI7404's now because I can get away with 5V instead of 7
03:28.27idaystarseeker: no - i saw something like that was available... but at the time i was trying to use it for a class, and no time to futz with it
03:28.33starseekerAh.
03:28.45idaystarseeker: i tried wxmaxima the other day - argh
03:28.54starseekerNot what you need eh?
03:29.10Twingybtw Erik I finally got my DB-III
03:29.18idaystarseeker: i
03:29.32starseekeriday:  Doing something like Mathematica's interactive 2D input typesetting interface is probably the way to go in the long term, but it's a very difficult problem.
03:29.38idaystarseeker: am just picky about interfaces (and I keep tapping the frikkin return key)
03:29.45idayyes
03:29.59starseekeriday:  That's why I am interested in McCLIM and the Stix fonts, for example
03:30.03starseekerthey are critical pieces
03:30.04idayhowever - lyx doesn't do too bad
03:30.12starseekerfor one liners it's ok
03:30.25``Erikw00t, how's gaytech going?
03:30.31idayhaha
03:30.48idaytwingy looked a bit stressed today... maybe that was the soot
03:31.10Twingy``Erik, very difficult
03:31.14``Erikone of the things that really endeared latex to me was that the layout was very divorced from the creative cycle
03:31.19starseekerThere's an McCLIM app called GSharp that has done amazing work with interactive music typesetting using McCLIM, and I think many of those pieces will be helpful someday in a proper math GUI.  But there are so many things to fix before the GUI... :-(
03:31.30iday``Erik: of course
03:31.32``Eriknot even worth worrying about layout, just do the fucking content...
03:31.54idayonly until you need to embed a graphic. and then things get a bit painful
03:31.57starseekeriday:  Actually, if you don't need interactive typesetting I recommend Emaxima
03:31.58``Erikopposed to 'word', where it's easy to distract yourself be tweaking visual elements instead of being productive...
03:32.02``Erikeps ftw
03:32.12idaystarseeker: have to take a look at it
03:32.26``Erikencapsulated postscript
03:32.37idayor pgf - program your figures
03:32.50starseekerBrain child of Jay Belanger
03:32.51``Erikimagemagick's "convert" can make 'em, and they just 'work' if you output to ps (then use ps2pdf or something)
03:32.57idaypdflatex uses pdf figures as well
03:33.08starseekerEmaxima rocks - I helped with some of the early debugging on it
03:33.44``Erikaaaanyways, it seems to me that toys like LyX kinda defeat one of the biggest advantages :D
03:33.55``Erikthat was the reason for my tangent
03:34.10idayyou don't have to do any "layout" in lyx...
03:34.16starseeker``Erik:  Lyx is actually an interesting compromise between hiding syntax details of markup and lack of interactive WYSIWYG behavor
03:34.34starseekermost of the problem with users of Lyx is they expect WYSIWYG
03:34.42idaysaves some \begin{} and \end{} typing (but not all of it)
03:34.56idayWYSIWYM!
03:35.07``Erikerm, you don't have vim macros for automatic teTeX output?
03:35.14``Erikor, uh, emacs macros?
03:35.37idayi like the pretty equation visualization ;-)
03:35.57starseeker``Erik:  Well, we have AucTeX but for a lot of students who don't go that deep into the typesetting side of things Lyx is a good compromise
03:36.10``ErikI'm often tempted to write a scheme<->tex(math mode) translator
03:36.15``ErikI mean, they're almsot identical
03:36.25iday``Erik: you
03:36.31iday're hilarious sometimes,
03:36.34starseekerLyx and TeXmacs have the best equation input setups I've ever used - Lyx has the best dialog I've ever used, and TeXmacs keybindings are extremely smooth once you know them
03:36.35``Erik:d
03:36.36``Erik:D
03:36.49``ErikI also want to write a sexp<->xml translator
03:36.59starseeker``Erik:  cl-typesetting would like you :-)
03:37.15Twingy``Erik, did you see crayon physics?
03:37.26``Erikxml is just an obscenely ugly and verbose form of a subset of sexp
03:37.32``Erikno? crayon physics? O.o
03:37.43``Eriksame nature as, um, britney speares doing semiconductor physics?
03:37.48idayTwingy: i sent it to brlcad earlier
03:37.52idayhe may not have shared
03:38.21brlcadhm, who what?
03:38.25starseekeriday:  Ahem - anyway, back to cad :-)
03:38.28``ErikI think first I'll build yet another 74 based ripple adder
03:38.29brlcadi'm innocent
03:38.33brlcadshe said she was 19
03:38.35``ErikTHEN try to tie the simm to the pic
03:38.43idaybrlcad: jeez
03:38.57brlcadokay 18
03:39.00idayalright - since neural nets are off topic here, back to work
03:39.02``Erikyou're 30 now, quit hitting on the freshmen at the frat parties, step up to the sophmores
03:39.05``Erik*cough* O:-)
03:39.22starseekerbrlcad:  There's a topic - can neural nets be applied to CAD? ;-)
03:39.42brlcadthought 'bout it some
03:40.00``Erikstarseeker: look at src/gtools/beset... genetic algo's applied to cad...
03:40.19starseekeriday:  So, you're on topic after all ;-)
03:40.33brlcadmebbie but the dimensionality of most of the problems is a bitch for a nn, but you could use a nn as part of some bigger solution
03:40.48``Erikevolving a good nn via a ga... etc
03:41.01idaywell, i'll be using a EA to grow NN for my project this semester
03:41.09idayhopefully to implement target tracking
03:41.25CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r330 10/trunk/libirc/src/IRCClient.cpp: when we are quiting, don't complain about not having network command handlers when the network itself is not valid.
03:41.29brlcadbpoole's beset GA showed quite a bit of feasibility of the approach for some problems
03:41.32``Eriksee, more of that 'better bullet' shit, I can't get behind that :(
03:41.54brlcad``Erik: but you can get in front of them? :)
03:41.55idayum - not for bullets, for information
03:42.02idaysurveillance
03:42.10idayjeez
03:42.32``ErikI have no problem keeping kids from getting dead, but I get squeemish at the notion of getting kids dead...
03:42.41brlcad~bzfrag ``Erik
03:42.42ibotACTION skewers ``Erik with a super bullet
03:42.44idayi really wouln't work on the better bullet approach either (although, many good things can be used in nefarious ways)
03:43.16starseekerIt's all tools in the end - in a battlefield situation, the idea is to keep at it until someone can't continue
03:43.23rdvbrlcad: i'm interested in what adding IBMR to the software would entail.  i realize it's difficult to estimate off the top of one's head
03:43.23``Erikyeah, my threshhold for observing nefarious misuse has shifted in the last, ohhhh, 6, almost 7 years
03:43.45brlcadrdv: that's way too open-ended :)
03:44.36starseeker``Erik:  there's this, too - if you don't know what you might find being shot at someone someday, it's harder to design around it
03:44.43brlcadwhat do you mean by it?  something with a gui that lets you pick points in multiple views?  something programmatic? automatic/manual shape/edge/feature detection? console/command driven?
03:45.17rdvwell for a first phase, maybe rectangular textures by picking 4 points on each of 2 pictures
03:45.42CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r331 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: throttle the inital channel joins, do them one at a time, and only after we have the MOTD, and a valid nick
03:46.00``Erikmy observation is that if you give warmongering imbeciles a technology to defend against tomorrows bullets, they'll figure out how to field those imagined bullets.
03:47.25``Erikalbert einsteins quote, um, about not knowing what weapons ww3 will be fought with, but ww4 being fought with sticks and stones... :) strikes a chord with me
03:48.08starseeker``Erik:  Given the weapons we already have, it's just a matter of degree at this point.
03:48.35``Erikthe weapons are just a tool, unfortunately... it's the lack of civilization
03:48.47starseekerCorrect
03:48.58brlcadrdv: if someone was already familiar with the libs and interfaces and could dedicate time to it, I could see having something minimal like that in a few weeks .. that quickly expands to a few months though as you get to actual general use for making more than boxes and outlined shapes
03:49.15``Erikamerican aggresion inthe middle east has scared russia, who's arming up... so china gets scared and is arming up...it's a vicious feedback cycle
03:49.43starseekerLack of tools won't stop anybody - most of history's wars managed to kill lots of people with what were in essence extreme refinements of the club...
03:49.59brlcadrdv: brl-cad already has a facilities for creating/manipulating/storeing/processing geometry, so most of the work would be focused on the actual gui and IBMR calcs
03:50.11``Erikand given the near obliteration experiences in teh last half century, ... I doubt modern politicians have the ability to behave in rational ways like their predecessors
03:50.34starseekerWhich underscores the need for everyone to vote in elections
03:50.49``Erikthen throw in 'hot' areas of extremists getting "wmd's"... israel stealing nuke base and adopting a policy of "share the pain"... wtf
03:51.15``Erikif we don't become a space faring race awfully soon, we'll probably stop being a race.
03:51.30``Erikalso; whiskey good *grunt*
03:51.41brlcadget 'em!
03:51.46``Erikheh
03:52.13``Erikyeah, I'm scared of the world situation. the rapid degredation is horrifying. :)
03:52.30starseekerThere are so many good things that could come of that
03:52.59``ErikI think it's real, but misplaced... I think it smells more like "we're still badasses, we can beat the damn commies... again"
03:53.06``Erikopposed to real sustained advancement
03:53.10brlcadc'est la vie, have fun and enjoy life while you have it
03:53.30starseeker<snort>  If we hadn't had the race for space, we would never have walked on the moon.
03:53.33``Erikchina seems to be avoiding the critical flaw the ussr had
03:53.41brlcadjust/more likely to die on your way home (as you so flippingly found out already)
03:53.49``Erikheh
03:53.51``Erikwell
03:53.55starseekerIf we have to make it a race/contest to overcome human nature, oh well - at least it's better than slugging it out
03:54.08``ErikI wasn't exactly driving home when I rolled the sports car :)
03:54.22brlcaddoesn't matter, it's still in the odds
03:54.45starseekerarrgh - you rolled a sports car??
03:55.02``Erikyeah... but, y'know, if it takes me, it takes me... otherwise, I'll try to maximize the long term benefit of my activities as much as possible
03:55.32``Erikyeah, starseeker... bmw m3... hit two trees, flipped, went upside down across a road, hit a hill and two other trees, ended up on the side
03:55.46``Erikgot lucky SO manytimes on that adventure
03:56.15starseekerholy cow
03:56.16``Erikinches from a frame stop on the first tree which woulda killed me, arm happened to flop in during the roll so I got to keep it, etc...
03:56.24``Erikmegajoules.
03:56.29``ErikI computed it before I went to court
03:57.01starseekerSo you're taking the bus nowadays?
03:57.08``Erikheh, no
03:57.36``Erikinsurance company totally paid everything off, and I was so damn impressed at how I stepepd out that I went and bought another m3
03:57.47``Erikhaven't rolled this one yet ;)
03:58.14``Eriknot an issue, I never drive anywys :D
03:58.19``Erikgas is too damn expensive
03:58.24starseekerHeh
03:58.30starseekerYeah, that's for sure
03:59.12``Erikbrlcad and iday can attest... I make sure to keep the rear seats disassembled and leave my car key in the office when going to lunch :D
04:00.04``ErikI'm tempted to junk my current truck and buy another and use that as my daily driver
04:00.10``Erikhey, brlcad, wanna buy a truck? :D
04:00.43brlcadhttp://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/07/13/the_six_most_feared_but_least_likely_causes_of_death.htm
04:01.19``Erikheh
04:01.38``Erik<-- has been rating auto accident and alcohol as his top two probably
04:02.15brlcadeh.. how about adding physical inactivity too :)
04:02.24brlcadyou *ever* hit the apg gym? :)
04:02.30``Eriknot the apg one
04:02.38``ErikI have one about 2 minutes walk from my house
04:02.51brlcadwhich you of course walk to every day :)
04:02.58``Erikheh, hell no
04:03.04brlcadafter a couple beers
04:03.23``Erikbut, uh, once in a while... and I do distance walks once in a while...
04:03.37``Erikstairs all the time (there is no bathroom on the 'main' floor of my house)
04:03.45starseekerbrlcad:  It sounds like you can use ``Erik to do some real world testing of vehicle related ballistic modeling ;-)
04:03.48``Erikpushups and sittups once in a while...
04:04.06``Erikand my diet has gotten a lot better the last couple years, I mena, I went from 180 to 150
04:04.23``Erik'nut' was helpful in that
04:05.13``Erikheh
04:05.16starseekerhehe
04:05.24starseekerthe truck would lose
04:05.33brlcadbanking on them sorting out those problems in about 30 years
04:06.15``Erikmy parents have neither... my dad has high cholesterol, and so do I... but given the fluctuation on medical opinion of cholesterol... *shrug* probably aint' an issue
04:06.23starseeker``Erik:  just kidding around.  That's one heck of a crash to have survived - you're very lucky
04:06.42``Erikshit, when my dad went on an extreme low cholesterol diet, his readings went UP
04:07.05``Erikstarseeker: my cam was fucked up... but... http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/m3/20060925/640x480/
04:07.35``Erikmy community gym is 24/7...I have a proxy card :)
04:07.47starseekerWow - actually in better shape than I would have expected
04:08.18``Erikwas a damn good car, and I got damn lucky
04:08.25starseekerI see why you got another one
04:08.53brlcadyou should have put a "Designed for Windows XP" sticker on it
04:08.56``Erikamusingly enough
04:09.13``Erikafter I killed the blue one, I bought one with "performance modifications"
04:09.18``Erikand my insurance went down a lot
04:09.36starseekerThat's some funky math
04:09.46``Erikthat was about when I turned 30
04:09.48``Erik...
04:10.13starseekerOh, OK.  Age does have a lot to do with it
04:11.01``Erikwas weird, I paid like $1005 fora 6mo, wrecked... bought a newer fancier version... got a letter saying my rate had increased mor ethan 15% and here's my refund
04:11.09``Erikand the nextcycle was like $835 or something
04:13.53``Erik<PROTECTED>
04:14.01``Erikif you have the opportunity to toe up against a tree
04:14.07``Erikpolitely pass on that
04:14.18``Eriktrees're damn tough
04:14.27starseekerGood advice
04:24.37``Erikindeed
04:24.44``Erikunlike some punkassed bitch contractors
04:24.59``ErikI'll get in trouble if I don't "punch the clock" at the right time
04:26.12brlcadthere's no clock to punch if you just don't stop coding
04:28.35``ErikIT walks circuits in the morning and evening.
04:29.05``Erikif I cooked an overnight crunch, Iwouldn't be credited the overnight hours, as I hadn't filled out the proper paperwork
04:30.50brlcadcould go for a brisk midnight walk :)
04:31.29``Erikthe 'greenway' here is closed after dark,a nd old fuckers will call the cops on you :(
04:33.13*** part/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
04:46.50brlcaddamn, burnt the coffee a little
04:47.21brlcadmm.. and beowulf comes out today as well as love in the time of cholera
04:58.39``Erikbeowulf... the movie?
04:58.48``Erikcuz, uh, ya MIGHT be a LITTLe behind for the book
04:59.51``Erikwhen I lived in memphis, I was maybe 5-6 minutes walk from the library, and had started getting old enough to have an appreciation for history
05:00.11``Erikso the first book I checked out was the oldest (source) book they had... beowulf...
05:00.23``Erikand next was 'the prince'
05:00.26``Erikthen I moved :/
05:01.35``Erikproject gutenburg seems promising, but at the computer, I keep dorking around instead of reading :(
06:03.02brlcadyeah, the movie
06:03.42brlcadi read the book too, hail hrothgar!
06:03.54brlcadbut the movie has angelina hawtness
06:04.24brlcadthe screenplay is probably no better than tomb raider, but still fun
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06:58.56CIA-27libirc: 03brlcad * r333 10/trunk/libirc/ (11 files in 6 dirs): s/receve/receive/g
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09:39.45Defconhappy hacking today
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15:43.34brlcadDefcon: heh, thx ;)
15:45.05Defconhaha :)
15:45.10Defconwas like 6 hours ago :)
15:45.22Defconmy hacking day is over in 15 minutes
15:45.22Defcon:)
15:47.50Defcon:)
15:47.51Defcongood :)
15:48.00Defcondid u have a productive day?
15:48.20brlcada productive night
15:48.24brlcadit's now 10am :)
15:48.25Defcon:D
15:48.33brlcadbeen going since 9am yesterday
15:48.44Defcon25hours straight.. :)
15:49.45Defconmy SQL Server is being a bitch :@
15:57.05CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: fail gracefully when xpush is called with a primitive, instead of crashing
15:57.45Defcon..
15:57.53Defconis that a good sign?
15:59.04brlcad(user visible)
15:59.20``Erikwell
15:59.33``Erikif you have a moment, mind making sure I didn't change valid semantis?
15:59.35``Eriksemantics
16:00.01brlcadafter my phonecon, sure
16:00.47``Erikaight, I don't wanna chew on NEWS if my 'fix' breaks stuff... :D (staying in (and/or going home) for lunch?)
16:01.34Defconcya next week
16:01.38Defcon<== going home
18:59.17yukonbobnice toenail polish
18:59.52yukonbobwhat do you call that colour?
19:24.11*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-73-143.dclient.hispeed.ch)
19:26.03*** join/#brlcad iday (n=iday@c-68-50-191-200.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
20:00.20*** join/#brlcad ManicMechE (n=MrSand@c-24-147-123-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
20:01.10ManicMechEquick question
20:01.49ManicMechEI just installed BRL-CAD 7.10.on my Mac
20:02.00ManicMechE7.10.4
20:02.17ManicMechEand I'm not sure where to find anything that it installed
20:02.57ManicMechEnot in the applications folder
20:03.04ManicMechEnot in the root directory
20:03.13ManicMechEnot in my home directory
20:08.55``Erikhum, mebbe look for /usr/brlcad ?
20:09.39brlcadManicMechE: you'll need to run X11 (in Utilities folder), then run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged
20:09.48brlcadin the xterm that opens up
20:09.55brlcadalas we're still tied to X11 on the mac
20:10.40ManicMechEI found it on my own, but it seems angry
20:10.43``Erik30 hours now?
20:11.08ManicMechEBreak on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTI
20:11.08ManicMechENALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
20:12.42ManicMechE(sorry if I'm a bit of a noob, I've been teaching myself how to use the command line and just getting into oss and such)
20:14.28brlcadManicMechE: did it actually say that?
20:14.42brlcadthat's the first I'ver heard of that..
20:15.01brlcadyou can run /usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f and it won't detach
20:15.23ManicMechEyep
20:18.19ManicMechEhey, now I'm getting somewhere
20:18.34ManicMechEbrlcad: thanks, I'll let you know if I have anymore questions
20:27.06brlcadManicMechE: no problem, someones always here ;)
20:27.30brlcad``Erik: and I entirely intend to stop at the gym on the way home for a couple hours
20:38.21prasad1ah gym
20:38.34prasad1lost all interest after i left
20:38.37prasad1:(
20:39.19idayprasad1!!! :-) How'
20:39.21idays it going?
20:39.41idayiday == jlo
20:39.49``Erikheh, so you're punchdrunk and goofy... and you'll make sure your muscles are worn down and you're short on bloodsugar and energy? when're you driving, I wanna make sure I'm not ont he road at the same time O.o :D
20:39.53idayif you forgot
20:40.12dtidrow_workheh
20:40.16``Erikhennifer hopez
20:40.19idaybrlcad is crazy... but we all know that
20:40.25idaywhat-eva ``Erik
20:40.57idaycan we get over the j-lo thing?
20:41.04prasad1jlo!
20:41.07prasad1sup man
20:41.09``Erikthat southpark had some awesome gags :D
20:41.18idayprasad1: sup
20:41.26prasad1wmrd?
20:41.30idayvtd
20:41.33prasad1ahso
20:41.34iday:-)
20:41.35prasad1cool cool
20:41.46prasad1hows nettie and the lil tyke
20:41.59idayworking on NN and vision based target tracking with GA
20:42.19prasad1good stuff
20:42.51brlcadhm, prasad1 where you still here before or after the benchpress competition?
20:43.05prasad1after
20:43.13brlcadokay, thought so
20:43.34brlcadyeah, you were here after I'd started back up rowing
20:43.45brlcadwhining about going because you were trying to look good for her
20:43.56prasad1wahahah
20:44.06prasad1there's a gym in my bldg
20:44.12prasad1i should step it up
20:44.18prasad1need motivation :(
20:44.44brlcadlook at your belly
20:44.49brlcadand skinny arms
20:44.52brlcadthat's ll the motivation I need
20:45.11prasad1lol
20:45.12prasad1indeed
20:46.15prasad1is the delicate flower still around?
20:46.17prasad1heh
20:46.40brlcadno, you left remember
20:47.06brlcadactually she's up working for Mr. T now
20:47.50prasad1really
20:48.01prasad1that's good (right?)
20:48.59brlcadshe seems to enjoy it
20:49.11brlcadand she "won" it, so yeah, it's good
20:49.54prasad1orly?
20:49.55prasad1heh
20:51.21``Erikhttp://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Any-Key-or-Any-Other-Key.aspx
20:52.31iday:-)
20:59.26*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
21:16.45ManicMechEok, so it was working great for a little while, now when I try to type at the mged prompt, it........does weird stuff
21:17.51ManicMechEand after killing it and starting again a couple times, it is miraculously fixed?
21:18.08ManicMechEmethinks maybe it's not getting along with Leopard
21:20.06brlcadhrm, if you can repeat or quantify what you mean..
21:20.26brlcadI've not seen any issues on Mac with the latest yet except for remote X11
21:20.59ManicMechEI switched away in spaces for a moment
21:21.12ManicMechEwhen I switched back, both Terminal and the X11 windows were gone
21:21.42ManicMechEwhen I got them back (just fiddling around), trying to type at the mged prompt caused it to behave erratically
21:21.48ManicMechEsuch as the prompt disappearing
21:21.54ManicMechEit tabbing over
21:22.11ManicMechEit deleting bits of what was already there
21:22.18ManicMechEI had to kill it through the gui
21:22.33ManicMechEI started it again
21:22.38ManicMechEsame business
21:22.41ManicMechEkilled it again
21:22.43ManicMechEstarted again
21:22.46ManicMechEand now it works fine
21:25.27brlcadoh, I read about that with Spaces
21:26.12brlcadon the Tk mailing list, it's a bug in X11 fixed in latest sources but not in 10.5 yet
21:26.24brlcadaffecting windows and input control
21:26.37ManicMechEI suspected as much
21:26.57ManicMechEmoving x11 windows across spaces has already proven to be bad news for me
21:27.11brlcadthere's actually one guy at Apple that was dedicated to work on the problem, he was asking for help from X11 devs
21:27.36brlcadapparently a really hard set of bugs
21:28.56ManicMechEI would imagine
22:03.35*** part/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
22:03.43*** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@70.108.244.218)
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23:16.41CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r335 10/trunk/libirc/ (12 files in 7 dirs): start a static lib to consolidate the IRC bot logic into a more manageable class.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071117

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071117

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00:42.53CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r336 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp):
00:42.53CIA-27libirc: get the botlib to connect and join channels
00:42.55CIA-27libirc: stub out the major event callbacks.
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03:59.48``ErikO.o
04:00.13*** join/#brlcad tonsofpcs (n=EricAdle@129.3.157.94)
04:00.17``Erikhave a beer with it and hit the sack after, boy :D
04:00.37``Erik(given that I'm 3 hours late, I assume that's already happened)
04:01.22tonsofpcsdoes brl cad have a way of transfering 3d models to/from autocad?
04:10.17``Erikum, dxf-g and g-dxf
04:10.30``Erikbut any 2d stuff in autocad will be lost, iirc
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07:09.17CIA-27libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r338 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/vc8/ (botlib.sln botlib.vcproj): VC8 project for the botlib
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13:14.29starseekerbackup time...
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18:33.29yukonbob...~5h and no word from starseeker -- hope the backups are going well...
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20:58.28alex_jonibrlcad: maybe it's best to talk in here.. not to spam #cia
20:59.03brlcadheh
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21:44.24brlcadalex_joni: http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux
21:46.24brlcadespecially for a model that only has 22k polys
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21:52.55alex_jonibrlcad: wow
21:53.21alex_jonibrlcad: what did you use to convert?
21:54.00alex_jonithanks btw :)
22:10.48brlcadalex_joni: ehm.. BRL-CAD :P
22:12.19*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
22:12.19alex_jonibrlcad: oh, surprise :D
22:12.47brlcad.g is our file format
22:13.27alex_jonitrying to import it into my CAD proggy.. but it doesn't like the IGS
22:13.42alex_joni(not your fault I bet.. I got the same thing with the iges I managed to convert)
22:13.57brlcadit was calculated as having a few degenerate faces, that might cause problems with some programs
22:14.06brlcadwhich CAD proggy?
22:14.12alex_joniI get a ACISERROR_IMPORT_NO_FACED: Import - The FIle has no faces to stitch.
22:14.17alex_jonibrlcad: alibre xpress
22:15.11brlcadwow, that's odd
22:15.16alex_joniparametric solid modeler.. for a good price
22:15.16brlcadthey gotta be using acis wrong
22:15.28brlcadacis undoubtedly can handle that iges
22:15.45alex_joniyeah, they probably only load a subpart of acis
22:16.02alex_joniload/interpret
22:16.09brlcador just assuming something on the input file
22:16.21brlcadI can try generating iges files in different formats
22:17.06alex_joninah, don't waste too much time on it
22:17.11alex_joniI'm sorry I did..
22:17.58alex_jonisometimes I get caught up in doing things without remembering the big picture..
22:18.51brlcadfor what it's worth, here's what's in that file:  http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m1e911662
22:20.59alex_jonicool, thanks again
22:22.06brlcadgot three more done, uploading
22:23.16brlcadone as a nurbs surface, another as trimmed nurbs, and a modified facet version
22:23.36brlcadit'll take about 10 min to upload
22:24.27alex_joniI see they're just as large ..
22:24.41alex_joni(roughly)
22:24.43brlcadit's not done uploading even one yet ;)
22:24.59brlcadthey are all about the same size
22:25.07alex_joniyeah, I saw that it's still increasing
22:25.33brlcadit doesn't change the object, it's just a different encoding
22:25.56brlcad-f one is done
22:26.35alex_joniit'll take a bit till it's downloaded
22:28.26brlcadhm, guess I could have compressed the files..
22:28.38alex_jonidon't sweat it.. it'll get here :)
22:30.24brlcadnah, it's taking forever on my end to upload the 100MB over wireless :)
22:30.39alex_joniis it .g at least?
22:30.41brlcadthey're all already compressed and uploaded now, .gz
22:30.55brlcadhm?
22:31.30alex_joni802.11g ?
22:31.37brlcad.g is the brl-cad file format, our binary data file format -- there are three .gz files, though, that are gzipped
22:31.44brlcadyeah
22:31.52alex_jonisame on my end..
22:32.04brlcadahhh I get what you meant
22:32.11alex_joniok, they're done.. checking now
22:32.14*** join/#brlcad Maloeran_ (n=maloeran@glvortex.net)
22:33.06brlcadhttp://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m789231c5
22:33.15Maloeran_Very much off-topic, but if anyone is curious to see some scuba diving pictures from the Whitsunday Islands in Australia : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/
22:33.42Maloeran_I didn't manage to get any good pictures of my shark unfortunately
22:35.57brlcadMaloeran_: fun
22:36.01brlcadthat's one heck of a camera
22:36.39Maloeran_Eh yes, mine is a lot cheaper than that ; just a typical good digital camera with an underwater case
22:37.17Maloeran_A gift from my wife before I left :)
22:38.07brlcadahh
22:39.08brlcadi can usually get two levels within a minute or so, but that last level is usually a little tough
22:40.05brlcadah, I see your camera
22:40.14Maloeran_Yes, same here. I always get stuck a long while with the last 4 corners
22:40.33brlcadhehe
22:41.04yukonbobheh -- tux looks like a pewter casting
22:41.05brlcadfor corners are easy, its' the inner 5
22:41.46yukonbobbrlcad: you know what the original source of that linuxtux was?
22:41.47Maloeran_So you do all the corners before the inner edges?
22:41.57brlcadno, inner first
22:43.09brlcadonce you have the inner, the corners are just a series of CCRight, CCDown, CRight, CDown and you're done
22:44.00alex_joniyukonbob: stl is the oldest thing I have on the linuxtux
22:44.05Maloeran_Hum. I need to better understand that last step, the rest goes rather smoothly
22:45.51brlcadonce you have two levels done and the inner top done, put the four corners facing up
22:46.06Maloeran_brlcad, I think your sequence works to fix the position, I
22:46.13Maloeran_I'm not sure about the orientation
22:46.29brlcadactually it only fixes the orientation afaik :)
22:46.34Maloeran_Oh.
22:47.10brlcadtake a given corner, do the CCR, CCD, CR, CD until it's oriented right in that corner
22:47.17brlcadyou'll have to do it either 2x or 4x
22:47.23brlcaddepending which way it's flipped
22:47.37brlcadit'll seemingly mess up the bottom two levels, but don't worry about it
22:47.46Maloeran_Interesting
22:47.51alex_jonibrlcad: managed to overload my laptop with the import :)
22:47.58Maloeran_Thanks, I
22:48.00brlcadonce that corner is oriented right, turn only the top level to the next corner
22:48.02brlcadand do it again
22:48.03Maloeran_I'll try that out
22:48.07brlcadthat's the trick
22:48.34brlcadonce you do all four like that, the top should be complete, and the bottom two levels will all align
22:49.50brlcadi forget where I learned that trick, but it's one of the few I remember being amazed at because it was so simple
22:50.15brlcadespecially when it seems like the bottom is getting screwed up
22:50.35MaloeranIt seems to have been complex enough to elude me for a while o.O
22:50.49brlcadalex_joni: heh
22:51.14alex_jonihad a VM running, and the import.. that's too much even for a decent laptop
22:51.26brlcadahh
22:51.27alex_joni(running out of memory right now..)
22:51.42brlcadacis pig
22:51.44alex_jonialibre is using up about 800MB of mem :D
22:52.11brlcada pig (acis) being fed a pig file format (iges) ..
22:52.43brlcadthe nurbs rep is going to be a lot more memory intensive than a simple mesh .. but still shouldn't be more than about those file sizes..
22:52.54alex_joniit
22:53.04alex_joniit's only 30x the filesizes :D
22:53.16brlcadthat's horrible
22:53.28alex_joniI'll give it a go at work on a bigger machine
22:53.29brlcadsounds like some sort of xml encoding
22:53.47brlcadnot many things will balloon up the memory like that
22:54.03brlcadwhich one were you trying?
22:54.08brlcadthe -s ?
22:54.17alex_jonithe -t
22:54.29alex_jonithe -s and -f crapped out with the same error as before
22:54.39brlcadah, hm
22:54.50brlcadthen not too hopeful
22:54.50alex_jonin/m.. it's not really important
22:54.53brlcads is nurbs surfaces
22:54.59brlcadt is trimmed nurbs surfaces
22:55.28brlcadthere shouldn't be any trimmings given it came from polygons :)
22:55.39alex_joniheh..
22:55.41brlcadat least, there's not much to do
22:56.15alex_jonianyways, thanks a lot for the effort
22:56.23alex_jonidon't waste any more time on this.. it's not worth it
22:56.43brlcadthere's not much more I can do on my part ;)
22:56.48brlcadother than smooth the bot out
22:57.06alex_jonibot?
22:57.20brlcader our name for triangulated models
22:57.26brlcad"Bag of Triangles"
22:58.21alex_joniheh.. nice name
22:58.48alex_jonibrlcad: I'll just use blender to do what I want to..
23:00.18alex_jonibrlcad: got 5 minutes for another question?
23:02.34brlcadhmm.. doesn't smooth out so well...  http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux/flat.png  http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux/smooth.png
23:02.37brlcadsure
23:03.19alex_joniheh.. is that irssi?
23:03.48alex_jonilooks just about the same as here :D
23:04.11brlcadyep
23:04.47alex_jonianyways.. the question is this: I have another app I work with, which uses some text file format for the 3D data it uses
23:04.56alex_jonihttp://pastebin.ca/778818
23:05.18*** join/#brlcad cad89 (n=4328011f@bz.bzflag.bz)
23:05.59alex_jonifrom looking at that, I think it the "1 24" describes the number of segments
23:06.21alex_jonithe next 24 x 2 define the number of points for each segment
23:06.36alex_joniand then there's couples of start/endpoint (24 of them)
23:06.53alex_joniwould you say I'm on the right way so far?
23:08.19alex_jonithe next thing "2 12" I think defines faces/vertexes
23:08.54brlcadlooks a lot like vrml
23:09.02brlcadyeah, looks like that's the case
23:09.24alex_joniok.. you just answered my question (which I never asked..)
23:09.35alex_joniif there's some format which is similar to that..
23:23.49alex_jonibrlcad: so if I want to convert that file to some other format.. what would be in your oppinion the easiest thing to do?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071118

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071118

00:08.53*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
00:28.59brlcadalex_joni: hmm.. probably brl-cad format :)
00:31.58alex_jonibrlcad: heh..
00:32.25brlcadour ascii file format is very close to that, i'll give it a shot
00:33.06alex_jonibrlcad: I managed to manually convert it some other format
00:33.39brlcadah, great
00:33.42brlcadwhich one?
00:34.18alex_joniit's called REND ASCII
00:34.18brlcadoff and obj would have been pretty easy to get to
00:34.36alex_jonibet you never heard of it.. had a sample file around
00:34.52brlcadyeah, not that I recall
00:35.10alex_joniI can do off in a second
00:35.32alex_jonihttp://web.axelero.hu/karpo/formats_m.html
00:35.51alex_jonisome formats there..
00:36.39brlcadkinda, cept was thinking a lot more information
00:37.23alex_joniyeah.. as a starting point at least
00:37.48brlcadlike whether the format is polygonal-only, whether it supports brep, nurbs, implicits, volumetric, wireframe, 2D, 3D, CSG, solid geometry, etc
00:37.51alex_jonihttp://pastebin.ca/778884
00:37.51brlcadyeah
00:37.59alex_joniI think that's the OFF translation
00:39.52alex_jonihmm.. loading it here with a crappy viewer doesn't work
00:42.13alex_joniah, I know.. it's off by one
00:42.43alex_jonihttp://pastebin.ca/778890
00:57.19brlcadhmm
00:59.14alex_joniI managed to convert it to IGES, but it doesn't contain any solids..
00:59.29alex_jonijust faces/vertices
01:01.22alex_jonibrlcad: http://home.austin.rr.com/reubenrachel/reuben/3D/index.html that also proved usefull along the way
01:03.33brlcadI was hmm'ing because of something else :)
01:04.26alex_joniok... I'm heading for bed..
01:04.35alex_joniwill look at writing a .sat from this tomorrow
01:05.06brlcad(we have a sat exporter) :)
01:05.27brlcadand what you made wasn't an OFF
01:05.40brlcadwhat format did you use? ply?
01:05.58alex_jonihttp://shape.cs.princeton.edu/benchmark/documentation/off_format.html
01:06.28alex_jonimight be the wrong OFF format?
01:06.32brlcadah, different off
01:07.50alex_jonihttp://people.scs.fsu.edu/~burkardt/data/off/off.html <- this the right one?
01:08.15brlcadthat's the same as the other
01:08.22brlcadjust better description
01:12.58CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/conv/off/g-off.c): fix crash-on-exit bug during clean-up where the NOP curtree being returned wasn't having its magic number set (causing a bu type check to fail)
01:17.23alex_jonibrlcad: is there a guide to install brlcad?
01:17.34brlcadguide?
01:17.46alex_jonibinaries vs. cvs ?
01:17.46brlcadthere's the INSTALL file
01:18.09brlcadyeah, that file talks about both
01:18.28brlcadhttp://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/brlcad/brlcad/INSTALL
01:19.03brlcad~cadcvs
01:19.04ibotTo obtain BRL-CAD from anonymous CVS:  cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad login && cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/brlcad checkout -P brlcad
01:19.07alex_joniis 7.8.0 really outdated?
01:19.13brlcadvery
01:19.22alex_joniVM it is then :)
01:19.24brlcadthough if you're on Windows, that's the easiest
01:19.37brlcadfor any other OS, there are much better options
01:19.40alex_joniI have a dapper running on VMware server
01:19.56alex_jonis/dapper/ubuntu 6.06 dapper drake/
01:20.50alex_jonihmm.. how is sf CVS nowadays?
01:21.30brlcadword of caution if you're just curious, there are tons of command-line tools and a rather non-intuitive google (makes blender look like mspaint in terms of usability)
01:21.30brlcadsf CVS has been great for over a year
01:21.56brlcadthey had a slew of issues after svn went on-line and before the cvs servers were upgraded
01:22.11alex_joniwe moved away from SF with our CVS (for emc)
01:22.12brlcadbut even that was mostly delays for anon users
01:22.27brlcadsince then, it's been pretty ideal
01:22.33alex_joniso now it's synched updates for anon?
01:22.37brlcadyeah
01:22.41brlcadfor a while
01:23.01brlcadthat was part of the upgrade
01:23.37brlcadwe'll be moving to svn shortly, have yet to have an issue with sf's svn service for other projects
01:24.35alex_joniI see.. ok, I'm glad it works
01:24.45alex_joniwhen we moved away it was pretty horrible..
01:24.55alex_jonihad a couple of weekends when it was completely down
01:25.34brlcadyeah
01:25.47brlcadtheir guys don't work on the weekends :)
01:26.19brlcadand then they had that hardware failure that kept things down for about a week
01:29.05alex_joni<PROTECTED>
01:29.16brlcadis the mesh already solid?
01:29.20alex_jonimesh is probably not the right word..
01:29.31brlcadi.e. does it form a closed topology
01:29.56alex_jonisay I have the obj file I pastebin'ed the last..
01:30.07brlcadokay
01:31.06alex_jonihttp://pastebin.ca/778923
01:31.20alex_joniI don't think that has a closed topology
01:31.30alex_joniit only defines some faces..
01:38.21brlcadhm, it's just a thin box
01:41.18alex_joniyes
01:41.19brlcadit does close space
01:41.29alex_joni(this is just an example.. I have more complex ones)
01:41.43alex_joniyes, it closes.. but that's only implicit
01:41.53brlcadyes, but that doesn't matter
01:41.56alex_joni(it doesn't reuse the points for the other faces)
01:42.21alex_joniif you say so.. I'll take your word for it :)
01:42.29brlcadthat's the importer's job during conversion to determin if you're coming from a file format that doesn't have structure
01:43.01brlcadand even if it doesn't, if you have software that has a shrinkwrap feature, then you can create closure
01:43.18alex_jonianything like that in brlcad?
01:43.29brlcadbut in that particular case, since everything does line up neatly, you don't even need that
01:43.52brlcadbrl-cad will evaluate the connectivity and stitch things together
01:44.16alex_jonicool.. (I finished installing the doze brlcad, the cvs one is still checking out..)
01:44.36brlcadwe don't have shrinkwrapping, that's pretty complicated to code up reliably :)
01:45.11brlcadbut we have things that are similar that will check and/or guarantee that the result is either solid geometry, or fail the conversion
01:45.33brlcad(without remeshing)
01:46.06brlcadgeneralized shrinkwrapping requires remeshing
01:46.07alex_joniI'm fairly confident all the stuff will line up just like this one
01:46.23alex_jonithey were solids at one point..
01:46.24brlcadwhat's your goal?
01:46.36alex_joniviewing/manipulating them
01:46.40brlcadthat's a good sign
01:46.43alex_jonimostly viewing
01:47.01alex_joniso I could live with viewing the meshes only (if only that works..)
01:47.09brlcadif you still have them in a solid format, it would be even better to use a file format that preserves the topological structure
01:47.37brlcadat least one that can, as opposed to one that can't (e.g. iges does both)
01:48.31alex_joniI don't.. if I would it would have been easy
01:54.34alex_jonihrmm.. I did this: I have some crappy freeware that created a iges out of the obj, I converted the iges to g (iges-g complained there's no solid inside, so I had to use -d -3), then I tried to convert it back g-iges, but it's quite empty
01:59.58CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_walk.c: if there's no directory pointer, or no callbacks, there's nothing to do
02:03.09CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: make sure the object may be looked up
02:06.07brlcadalex_joni: try this one  http://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/gnu-tux/box.iges
02:07.13brlcadthat's what I get going obj->ply->g->iges
02:08.51alex_joniI get the same old error.. The File has no faces to stich
02:11.52alex_jonihow did you go obj->ply ?
02:48.30brlcadoh, I had a converter local
02:49.01brlcadand we've not gotten around to writing the obj-g just yet
02:50.10alex_jonihmm.. I think I got a bit further
02:50.23alex_joniI have now something that looks like a .g solid
02:50.40brlcadrt -F/dev/Xl  to get a quick render
02:51.05alex_joniunder doze?
02:51.12brlcadunder anything
02:51.18brlcadit's one of our tools/commands
02:51.36brlcadworks on the mged command prompt if you have a .g
02:52.18alex_jonihttp://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi-files/sandbox/platte2.g
02:53.02alex_jonifb_open: no such device "/dev/X1".
02:53.29brlcadex ell
02:53.31brlcadXl
02:53.49brlcador wgll if you're on windows
02:53.58brlcader ogll
02:54.25brlcadinteresting, something remeshed that box for you
02:54.44alex_joniyes.. I managed to convert the obj to some iges
02:54.51brlcadit's actually a nurbs surface
02:54.55alex_jonithen when I did the iges-g it said there's some nurbs there
02:55.04alex_joniand that it's gonna convert it to a slid
02:55.05alex_jonisolid
02:56.33brlcadyeah, it's a decent prototype of a "better" interface
02:57.14brlcadit was more of a proof-of-concept, still not anywhere near as useful as mged
02:58.00alex_jonihmm.. g-iges crashes when I try to get an iges out of the .g
02:58.21alex_joniI tried "g-iges platte2.g nn -o tt.igs"
02:58.59alex_jonig-iges: failed to translate nn to IGES format
03:00.36brlcadahh, yes
03:00.48brlcadthe nurbs that it imported as cannot be exported
03:01.26alex_jonithink I'll call it a night
03:01.40alex_jonisun's coming up soon.. thanks for all the help & patience
03:01.43alex_jonigood night
03:01.50brlcadnp
03:02.00brlcadlemme know if can do anything else to help
03:02.18alex_joniI'll sleep it over, and see where I can get :)
03:02.26brlcadsomeone's always here ;)
03:02.55alex_joniyeah, well.. SWPadnos would be of no use :D
03:02.58brlcadfwiw, the box imported earlier as a bot that could be converted to a solid bot as you had it
03:03.17alex_jonireally?
03:03.18brlcadand that g-iges crash is fixed in later version if it's the one I'm thinking of
03:03.40alex_joniany ways to do the bot_>solid bot convert?
03:04.23brlcadrun "get botname mode"
03:04.31brlcaddoes it say surf or volume?
03:04.44brlcadif the edges align, you can just set it to volume
03:05.09alex_joniit says error: botname: not found
03:05.46brlcadbotname is the name of your bot..
03:05.56alex_jonioh :D I have one?
03:06.05brlcadyes
03:06.13brlcadtops to see the top-level geometry
03:06.19brlcadl objectname to see that object
03:06.26brlcad(textually)
03:06.35brlcad(and that's another "ell")
03:07.06brlcadif it's a bot, it'll look like:
03:07.22brlcadmged> l ply_bot
03:07.23brlcadply_bot:  Bag of triangles (BOT) 36 vertices, 12 faces (unoriented) This is a surface with no volume face 0: (408000 283000 10000), (408000 283000 0), (408000 -283000 0)
03:07.36alex_joniiges_drawing: n-Manifold Geometry solid (NMG) maxindex=336
03:08.05brlcadwhat's that from?
03:08.11alex_jonil iges_drawing
03:08.20alex_jonitops said 'iges_drawing'
03:08.22brlcadi mean, where did iges_drawing come from
03:08.30brlcadiges-g with .. some option
03:08.44alex_jonithink I ran it without
03:09.30brlcaddefault would be ideal
03:09.41brlcadlooks like you did -p or something
03:10.01alex_joni-d -3
03:10.22brlcadhm, shouldn't need either of those
03:10.31alex_joniThis IGES file contains drawing entities, but no solid model entities. You may
03:10.31alex_joniconvert the drawing to BRL-CAD by 'iges-g -d -o file.g PLATTE1.IGS'. Note that the resulting
03:10.32brlcadis it actually a drawing
03:10.34alex_joniBRL-CAD object will be a 2D drawing, not a solid object. You might also try the
03:10.37alex_joni'-3' option to get 3D drawings
03:10.45brlcadah
03:11.00brlcaddrawings suck
03:12.40brlcadtry running: g-nmg -b -o file2.g file.g iges_drawing
03:12.52alex_joniI guess I'll bother you about the obj->ply->g converter sometimes then
03:13.12alex_joni(don't have g-nmg on the doze box)
03:13.44alex_joni(still building the CVS version)
03:13.58brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/ply/
03:14.10brlcadahh, yeah
03:14.33brlcadthat windows build only has about 25% of the tools
03:15.24brlcadgcc -I. -o obj-ply *ply*.c
03:16.39alex_joniI'll do that some other time.. now really going to bed (5am here)
03:20.22alex_jonithanks & goodnight
03:21.57brlcadcya, have a good night
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11:47.42buttigood morning
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16:54.01``Erikhah
16:54.08``Erikthe last starfighter is on scifi
17:10.30brlcadheh, tis what I was watching too
17:15.02alex_jonibrlcad: hi.. managed to write a converter for my needs (it outputs obj correctly)
17:19.50brlcadcool
17:20.32alex_jonido you happen to know if obj has support for multiple things inside?
17:20.51alex_joni(like setting up a scene with a couple objects?)
17:21.34brlcadalex_joni: yes, obj does
17:21.42brlcadthey just follow one after the other
17:21.46alex_joniok, cool.. will finish reading the docs then :)
17:22.13brlcadg line followed by some # v lines and # f lines, repeated
17:22.27brlcadwith optional vn of course and a few other
17:23.34alex_jonigotcha
17:32.01``Erikman those graphics were chintzy :D
17:40.02Z80-Boybrlcad: would be fun to model this in BRL-CAD http://goodnesstruthandbeauty.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/escher.jpg
17:40.35Z80-BoyOr this http://britton.disted.camosun.bc.ca/escher/waterfall.jpg
17:41.50Z80-BoyThey already did it in LEGO http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/images/lego_relativity_1.jpg
17:42.31alex_joniZ80-Boy: http://www.gravestmor.com/strips/escher%20lego.jpg
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19:03.01alex_jonibrlcad: around?
19:20.49``Erikmore of a square, actually
19:22.38alex_joni``Erik: that's with smoothing turned off
19:23.31``Erikor a really BAD tesselation
19:29.33alex_joniheh
19:32.57buttihello boys
19:33.41buttiJust want to see if you are fine
19:53.34alex_jonibrlcad: I managed to put more than one component into the .obj, the problem is that the components I have aren't aligned.
19:53.50alex_joniI guess there's no way to specify position and orientation of a .obj group
20:07.27``Erik".obj group"?
20:07.54alex_jonithere's a thing called group inside .obj (g ..)
20:08.01alex_joniand you can have more than one
20:13.41CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c: speling
20:23.55Z80-Boybrlcad: I just made a brick chimney. I think making models of brick chimneys in BRL-CAD won't be difficult because you can fill all the mortar in at once by subtracting the bricks from a simple shape
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22:18.36poolioallo bob
22:21.19tarzeauhi
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23:24.59brlcadhowdy howdy
23:32.57yukonbobbrlcad: what the bug?
23:48.44poolioIt's an oversized cockroach
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071119

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071119

00:13.55yukonbobbrlcad vs. The Bug
00:13.57yukonbobttp://coolkits.net/G%20vs%20Mothra.jpg
00:14.02yukonbob*http
00:44.24CIA-27BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (dg_obj.c wdb_obj.c): remove dead code. there's closedb instead of overriding default close command, tol is a wdb_obj command.
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07:31.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_rt_isect.c: yet another place to report an unknown class instead of bombing out.
07:32.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_class.c: if we exhaust the retry count, just give up instead of bombing out. otherwise this can cause havoc for even simple optional operations like trying to fix normals.
07:37.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/nmg_misc.c:
07:37.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: if we encounter an invalid shell with bad results, stop processing entirely.
07:37.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: this avoids an avalanche of cascaded failures and potential bomb situations
07:37.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: where we can usually proceed. this particular problem was encountered during
07:37.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: g-iges that had a shell that could not be classified (resulted in infinite loop
07:37.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: and array indices that went out of bounds, eventually crashing).
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07:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: (log message trimmed)
07:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: fixed variety of g-iges and other exporter crashes and graceful handling of mesh
07:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: normal failures. started with a particular model that was failing in the bot's
07:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: tess() routine during the expensive nmg_fix_normals() processing. turned out
07:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: that the model was going amuck while trying to determine shell orientation
07:53.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: eventually overflowing a char in an inf loop until it crashed. the specific
07:53.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: cause of the inf loop wasn't determined, but it does now detect the shell
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09:46.04lachygHi.  Is there a way in which I can rotate a combination? Or am I going about things in the wrong way?
09:46.43lachygI've created a combination led.c = u led.plastic.r u led.metal.r, and want to rotate it around.  Is there a way to do this?
09:47.13Z80-Boylachyg: I do it by putting the combination into another combination, then opening the another combination in vi using red, loading a unit matrix from /home/clock/m and then editing the matrix to get the desired rotation. I need only rotation in multiples of 90 degrees.
09:47.39Z80-Boythe unit matrix is 1 0 0 0  0 1 0 0  0 0 1 0  0 0 0 1
09:47.55lachygSo there's nothing simple like rot led.c 0 0 90?
09:48.42Z80-Boymaybe is but for me figuring out which command it is what parameters it has and what meaning these parameters have and what exactly it does is about 2 days, whereas the aforementioned sequence is about 1 minute.
09:49.18Z80-BoyCause the documentation is missing a lot of important information and I always forget it when I figure it out, because I use BRL-CAD not continuously, but intermittently.
09:49.33lachygOk.  I'll probably have to write a script for it then, as I have not the patience to do it 12 times ;)
09:49.38lachygAh, I see.
09:49.42lachygThanks for your help.
09:49.51Z80-Boyyou might benefit in finding out the command
09:50.07Z80-BoyDon't worry, you don't find it in the official doc. You either have to ask brlcad or reverse engineer the huge codebase.
09:50.12Z80-BoyOr maybe experiment out
09:50.25lachygheh
09:50.43Z80-BoyLike I never know if the angles are counter or clockwise, which axis is the first rotation around, if it rotates in the source or destination space etc.
09:50.51Z80-BoyWith the matrix it's simple
09:51.28Z80-BoyYou start with your sub-model then apply the matrix and then you get what's one level higher in the hierarchy.
09:51.44Z80-BoyThe first 4 numbers are what goes into X upper in the hieararchy
09:52.18Z80-Boythe first, fifth, ninth numbers are concerning X in the original submodel.
09:52.34Z80-BoyWas also hell figuring if it's like this or lower/upper is swapped
09:53.31lachygHmm, I probably should read my linear algebra book again.
09:53.32Z80-Boyand in the cross, where is the letter X that's pointing into the positive direction
09:53.40Z80-Boyno you don't need linear algebra
09:53.46Z80-BoyIt's just like drink mixing
09:54.09Z80-Boyyou have 3 bottles x y z and 3 glasses X Y Z
09:54.20Z80-Boythe matrix tells you how much x, y, z should go into X
09:54.25Z80-Boyhow much x, y, z should go into Y
09:54.32Z80-Boyhow much x, y, z should go into Z
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09:55.34lachygYeah---I just need to figure out the theory behind it again.  Thanks for your help.
09:55.45lachygAh, looks like matrices are the only way to go.
09:56.50Z80-Boylachyg: no it was actually assumed that people will use those commands to make it simpler so they don't have to crunch matrices in their heads
09:56.59Z80-BoyBut because of bad documentation, crunching matrices is easier for me ;-)
09:57.24lachyghttp://www.nabble.com/20-questions-t3863486.html
09:57.26lachyg#2 there
09:59.28Z80-BoyOh lol this should be in the official doc and not on google resul page number 1137
10:01.14lachygI suspect so.
10:01.41Z80-BoyAlso if you create a complicated model like I do then redrawing the display takes a minute
10:01.53Z80-Boyso one minute to shift, one minute to zoom, one minute to change view etc...
10:02.01Z80-Boyreally blazing workflow speed ;-)
10:02.27Z80-BoyANd I have 1500 MHz Pentium III!
10:02.57lachygheh
10:03.09lachygCould be worse.
10:03.12lachygCould be paper.
10:03.12Z80-BoyI suspect because someone got an idea to wedging a blotware called X Windows system between the CPU and the AGP bus
10:03.21Z80-BoyX Window is fast in theory but slow in practice ;-)
10:03.39Z80-BoyMoving a piece of paper 20cm right doesn't take a minute, but a second.
10:04.30Z80-BoyYou can draw a line in a microsecond, but if you first have to email the coordinates to the X Window System through a socket it gets horrible
10:06.04Z80-BoyI think I should report a bug
10:06.08Z80-Boy"mged dead slow" ;-)
10:06.43Z80-Boyand that's wireframe!
10:07.56Z80-BoyCause it took me a whole bus trip to put model piece A to model piece B so that they touch each other
10:12.08lachygAh, think I've figured it out.
10:12.20lachygMade a new combination like you said, then used arced
10:15.59Z80-Boyoh what does it do?
10:16.34lachygApplies a matrix transformation to an element of a combination.
10:17.00lachygarced led.1.t/led.c matrix rmul rot 0 0 90
10:17.02Z80-Boyomg why is it called arced? With such a name I would expect to do something with arcs
10:17.33Z80-Boylachyg: where did you find out you should type "arced led.1.t/led.c matrix rmul rot 0 0 90"?
10:18.07lachygIn the documentation (Volume 2), appendix A, page 158
10:19.48Z80-BoyInteresting I'll look there.
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10:41.35lachygAh, now I've got it.  You have to remember that your transformations are in the element's co-ordinate space.
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12:41.47Defconwb all :)
12:42.29Defcon[13:31:07] <@brlcad> lachyg: oed / led.c/led.plastic.r/path/to/some/prim
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13:50.08Defcon<Z80-Boy> It's just like drink mixing
13:50.15Defcon..
13:50.18Defconhow... :)
14:06.48Z80-BoyDefcon: how what?
14:08.12Defconi didn't get your logic
14:08.18Defconbut i guess i do now
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14:14.20brlcadlachyg: was starting to say that the 'oed' command is another way to do what you were asking, you go into "object edit mode" on an object specifying where you want to apply a matrix and what primitive to use a coordinate system reference
14:14.56brlcadthen you can use the 'orot' or 'objrot' commands to do a rotate
14:15.14brlcadthose and other commands are listed on the mged cheat sheet reference
14:16.44Defconhmmm.. ok
14:16.46Defcon:)
14:26.55brlcadin mged lingo, an "arc" is the same as an object "path", not a 2D/3D geometric arc but a logical arc through the geometry hierarchy
14:27.26brlcadarced could have just as readily been named pathed, but the 'arc' convention goes back to early 80's
14:29.14brlcadso when you're specifying an 'oed' object edit, think of all paths to primitives in your model, /comb/path/to/region/to/primitive .. you can apply a matrix after any one of those '/'s so you separate that to a left and right-hand side
14:30.25brlcadso if I wanted to apply a matrix over the instance of region used in that 'path' object, I would have specified oed /comb path/to/region/to/primitive
14:32.58Defconimpressive
14:33.11Defcona matrix = an array(in vb)?
14:35.35brlcadhm?
14:35.46brlcada matrix can be stored as an array in most languages
14:36.05brlcadit's just a list of 4 or 9 or 12 or 16 numbers usually :)
14:36.20Defconah
14:36.21brlcadusually 16 for 3D homogeneous coordinates
14:36.31Defconlol
14:36.34brlcad4x4 matrix
14:36.41Defconstill way to advanced for me
14:36.42Defcon:)
14:40.34Z80-BoyI never know which *ed command can be used in which mode
14:40.41Z80-BoySo I never use them that's the safest ;-)
14:42.01Defcon:)
14:42.03Defcontrue
14:42.08Z80-BoyMatrix is just a way how to mix outputs from inputs
15:12.04``ErikI thought it was where neo used to live
15:12.47Defcon:D
15:30.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/NEWS: note fix to xpush
15:37.03Z80-Boybrlcad: do you use CRT or LCD?
15:38.29Defconwhow first line in this channel i fully understand :)
15:41.05``Erikpeople still use crt's? O.O
15:50.10Z80-Boy``Erik: I just had to replace a LCD with CRT - if I ran compilation there were horizontal stripes randomly jumping on the screen
15:50.18Z80-BoyI tried a different LCD and the same problem
15:50.41Z80-BoyThen I tried CRT and it's OK. Plus I have more uniform white, better black and brighter colours.
15:53.33PrezKennedyand 3x less desk space!
15:55.22Z80-BoyThe video is unbeliavebly smooth on CRT!P
15:55.55Z80-BoyPrezKennedy: I rather sacrifice some desk space than having to watch stripes
15:57.03PrezKennedyonly when you compile right?
16:01.01``Erikcrt's are analog only, lcd's can take digital... if you were using a full digital path, mebbe your videocards digital part is messed up, or mebbe the analog just 'blurs' over the lines and ya don't see the bad signal.... crt running close to full resolution will usually be 60fps, where an lcd will be around 40fps, but the lcd won't have any kind of 'tearing' since the pixel stays 'lit' the same until next update, where a crt has a decay e
16:02.09``Erikoops, too much geek, skeered him off
16:03.06``Erikif it was just during compilation, may've been crosstalk effecting things... I know one of my old computers had problems with that, heavy load and I'd start hearing it on the speakers, and for some reason the mouse set it off, too O.o
16:03.48PrezKennedyi hear that once in awhile with a computer thats quite new...
16:04.18Z80-BoyWell it was analog
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16:04.30Z80-Boyand it was because the card apparently gets a clock jitter.
16:04.34``Erikheh
16:04.41Z80-BoyBut clock jitter should display as shifting of a line.
16:04.57Z80-BoyShifting an object doesn't change it's brightness. But in this case the brightness flickered tremendously.
16:05.06``Erikdidja try moving the video cable around while compiling to see if it altered the behavior?
16:05.08Z80-BoyThat means the LCD is showing something else than is in the signal, period.
16:05.24prasad_gameboy?
16:05.26Z80-BoyNo but I tried moving the LCD around, away from my desk.
16:05.30Z80-BoyThat helped.
16:05.44PrezKennedydo you compile often?
16:05.56Z80-BoyThat's completely irrelevant.
16:05.57``Erikif two seperate lcd's showed the same thing, then the lcd is properly showing the signal, the signal is improper... crt's tend to be a lot more robust to 'funny data' in analog mode O.o
16:06.06prasad_gameboy has a z80 :o
16:06.22Z80-BoyNo the LCD is showing something else
16:06.29Z80-BoyThe problem is the sampling is done improperly.
16:06.45Z80-BoyThey leave out the sampling filter to satisfy the Nyquist criterion
16:06.58Z80-BoyCRT doesn't do any sampling.
16:07.10Z80-BoySo you either 1) do no sampling, or 2) do sampling properly
16:07.17``Erikcrt isn't digital, it's a "natural" sampling mechanism
16:07.39Z80-BoyI don't care how they implement it inside the monitor, it just has to show what's on the line
16:07.56``Erik... a crt DOESN'T show exactly what's ont he line, that's my point, dude
16:08.02Z80-BoyFor me it's a blackbox. Shows the right picture? stays on the desk. Doesn't? Flies away.
16:08.25``Eriksmells to me like you're fixing the symptom, not the problem *shrug*
16:08.26Z80-BoyIt doesn't but it's better than with LCD
16:08.37Z80-BoyAnd also I tried playing a music video... much smoother movements!
16:08.45``Erik'sup, prasad?
16:08.50Z80-BoyLike fast dance and rapid camera movements...
16:08.53Z80-BoyIt was like in real!
16:09.08Z80-BoyWith LCD I am feeling like losing track of the movement.
16:09.24Z80-BoySorry, but if I am more happy with CRT then it's better for me.
16:09.29PrezKennedyyou need a faster LCD screen!
16:10.15Z80-BoyI suspect LCD's have an internal refresh rate that runs asynchronously with the VGA refresh rate and causes temporal aliasing
16:10.40Z80-BoyAnd the black on LCD is horrible and on white I see Haidinger's brushes all around
16:10.41prasad_even with vsync on?
16:11.05Z80-BoyThe vsync was on all the time
16:11.13Z80-BoyWithout vsync the picture loses vertical sync
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16:15.43``Erikhum, older/cheaper lcd's have a 25ms response rate, which is sorta kinda the same as a refresh rate of 40hz, opposed to a 'normal' crt (at max res) of around 60hz... the lcd's I'm sitting at have 14ms response, which maths out to 71hz O.o prezkennedy may have a point there :D
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18:48.34``Erikhowdy ho
19:10.20``Erikheheh e http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1788161
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19:53.17brlcadZ80-Boy: both at home, but lcd predominantly
19:58.28Z80-Boybrlcad: is there a way to get rid of the warning when I put a region into another region?
19:58.40Z80-BoyI thought the "inherit" flag would logically turn it off but it doesn't
20:19.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: typo, brrrrcad
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20:27.58Z80-Boy``Erik: do you know how to get rid of the warning when I put a region into another region?
20:36.27``Erikum, no? :)
20:39.27Z80-BoyIt's very handy because I have a complex thing where each part is coloured a different way and now I want to make a variant which is all grey
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20:39.37Z80-BoySo I just put it into a region and override it all
20:39.48``Erikit's just a warning, though, right? it still works?
20:40.10Z80-BoyI don't want all the matrices to be duplicated because that's a bad practice
20:40.15Z80-BoyYes it works but warns
20:40.40Z80-BoyWarning: you are using an efficient method.
20:40.50``Erikheh
20:41.25``Erikum, one of the bigger reasons BRL-CAD gets funded is to support another piece of software that pukes all over itself when any primitive is seen twice in the tree...
20:42.18``Erikwe say it's their problem, they say it's ours, the warning keeps the poor users from stepping on landmines in a battle between developer groups
20:43.02``Erik(if I'm guessing correctly... brlcad might be able to confirm or correct me on that)
20:44.31Z80-BoyWhat ?!?
20:45.09Z80-BoyIf I have a grille with 100x100 holes, I have to crate 10,000 primitives to satisfy this idea of nonrepeating primitives?
20:45.24``Erikayup
20:45.32``Erikwhy do ya think I've been working on 'clone' lately?
20:45.41``Erik(I think it's idiotic, too...)
20:46.42Z80-BoyAnd if I realize the filtering action of the grille needs to be adjusted and change the holes from 4mm to 5mm, I have to edit ebery single primitive?
20:46.48Z80-BoyOMG WTF
20:47.06``Erikum, everything in the database can be expressed without confusion using the path, right? well, these guys only look at the last entry on the path list and map it to their own names... so they require a 1-1 mapping of geometric primitives to a physically unique 'thing'
20:47.35``Erikwhich is why ya see request tickets to warn or remove "instancing" in the sf bugs and feature requests...
20:48.13``Erikand it's been that way for 20 years now :(
20:50.57Z80-BoyI don't know if "everything in the database can be expressed without  confusion using the path, right?
20:51.01Z80-Boy"
20:51.55Z80-Boyif you have 2 M5x20 hex head bolts, do you have two physically unique things or two instances of one physical thing?
20:51.58``Erik/part1/hole1/generichole  /part1/hole2/generichole ... ?
20:52.25Z80-Boyyes that's how I do it
20:52.40``Erikthat would be instancing... 'generichole' only exists once, but you know where it goes due to the full path being a unique identifier...
20:53.14``Erikopposed to just taking the last part, how do you distinguish between "generichole" and "generichole", even though you know they are in different physical locations?
20:53.57``Erikwe say "use the full path", they say "don't allow instancing"
20:53.58``Erik:)
20:54.24Z80-BoyIt's TIA/EIA - Training In Absurdity, Exercise In Absurdity
20:54.51dtidrow_workgood grief
20:54.51``Erikand I THINK that might be the reason for that specific warning being in there, because now you have /part1/hole1/generichole vs /greyview/part1/hole1/generichole... or 'generichole' vs 'generichole' for this certain consumer
20:55.07``ErikI *THINK*
20:55.23dtidrow_worksomebody needs to go over there and start swinging the cluebat around
20:55.36``Erikagain, if brlcad were to drag his arse in and either correct me or add something... :D
20:56.26dtidrow_workstill
20:56.32Z80-Boynow the machines are fast but BRL-CAD is still slow
20:56.35dtidrow_workunnecessary bloat
20:56.44Z80-Boymy most complex model takes 1 minute to redraw in mged
20:56.58Z80-Boyopen menu, close menu, wait a minute until the black rectangle left by the menu redraws...
20:57.04Z80-Boychange the zoom, wait a minute.
20:57.08Z80-BoyShift the zoom, wait a minute.
20:57.15``Erikhey, man, I don't like the practice eather, I'm just trying to guess at the reason for that warning being in there :)
20:57.41``Erikheh, we have people routinely blowing the 2g limit on 32b builds here
20:57.57dtidrow_workhow many parts are in that model, Z80-Boy?
20:58.24Z80-BoyI don't know how do I figure out?
20:58.32``Erikdon: fear his p233 ;)
20:58.39Z80-BoyI have p1500
20:58.49dtidrow_work``Erik: lol
20:59.51``Erikbeing a command line dork, I'd sdo something like "mged -c file.g ls -l | grep -v 'comb\|region' | wc -l
21:00.44``Erikerrr, "mged -c /usr/brlcad/share/db/moss.g ls -l 2>&1 | grep -v 'comb\|region' | wc -l"
21:00.47``Erik(on fbsd, using bash)
21:03.06Z80-Boy0
21:03.11Z80-Boyshould I count >&2 instead?
21:04.08Z80-Boy444
21:06.17dtidrow_workbrlcad: morning  ;-)
21:06.37``ErikI d'no, I'm not a csh user... bash, ksh, zsh, I'm there... but not csh
21:07.40brlcadinherit is only for visual property inheritance (i.e. shader properties)
21:07.54brlcadhowdy dtidrow_work
21:08.23brlcadnot quite the reason -- there is a code that craps on itself if there's particular combinations of regions in regions, but in this case that's not even the issue
21:08.59brlcadZ80-Boy: from what I'm hearing, it sounds like a misunderstanding of what it means to have that region bit set/unset
21:09.21brlcadit has nothing to do with the color properties, it has to do with space occupancy
21:10.53Z80-Boybrlcad: so how do I do that properly?
21:10.53brlcadyou've basically said "this thing is wood, and now this _same_ thing used in a higher-level context is now not wood"
21:10.56brlcadso it (very correctly) warns you that you've just changed the material *type* (which again has nothing to do with color or shader properties, has to do with physical occupancy)
21:11.36brlcadZ80-Boy: the easy thing is unset the region bit on the higher level combination
21:11.46brlcadthere should only be one region on any path down the hierarchy
21:12.24brlcadthink of it as the "region" simply being when it goes from shape (blueprint/pattern) to solid (occupies space, has mass)
21:12.50brlcadyou're just wanting a color override, that has nothing to do with regions
21:13.06brlcadyou can color override any combination node
21:14.33brlcaddtidrow_work: there is a cluebat needed on that other code's behavior, but entirely unrelated to this issue ;)
21:14.47``Erik<-- toldja he was guessing :D
21:14.53brlcadthey do have an instancing name conflict problem, but they deal with it in their own "special" way
21:15.17``Erikand I have a tendancy to go heavy on the code side, not so much the geometry/modeling side *shrug* O:-)
21:15.28dtidrow_workheh
21:17.22Z80-Boybrlcad: yes but if I unset the bit, the things starts being colourful again.
21:17.58Z80-BoyIt's this one: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/tetrax_0.png
21:17.59brlcadwhat do you mean?
21:18.09Z80-BoyNormally the thing is one welded piece and all grey from zinc plating
21:18.35Z80-BoyBut I had to paint each piece individually to be able to refer to it in the assembly manual.
21:19.12Z80-BoySo each colour is an individual region and the resulting thing is a complicated combination of these regions, because they must not overlap so where they join one has to "give way"
21:19.18``Erikwhat about making every piece a combination... then having two things that refer to it, a color manual copy with many regions, and a seperate display copy with all zinc
21:19.24Z80-BoyNow I want to paint the whole thing gray. Now making it over whole again.
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21:19.50``Erikthen the colorful regions all get grouped in their own assembly or something to give an easy handle... :)
21:20.31Z80-Boy``Erik: Once I group them I cannot paint them individually later
21:20.40Z80-BoySo they have to be first painted then grouped
21:20.52``Erikyes
21:21.09Z80-BoyI could just merge all the *.r things into one huge and remove the "give ways" and retain the matrices
21:21.15``Erik/display/comb1/parts...  /manual/region1/comb1/parts...
21:21.31Z80-BoyBut that's bad practice. It can lead to shape inconsistency between the two copies
21:21.35``Erikno
21:21.39``Erikbecause comb1 is comb1
21:21.57``Eriktwo seperate regions point to the same combination underneath (yes, instancing, pheer)
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21:22.16Z80-BoyI don't want that
21:22.22Z80-BoyI just want to overpaint a region grey
21:22.33Z80-BoySorry, a combo of regions
21:22.51``Erikthen suck it up and take the warning :)
21:23.32Z80-Boywhat do you mean with "display" and "manual"
21:23.55``Erik'display' would be a region containing all your 'part' combinations.
21:24.15``Erik'manual' would be a combination, containing a set of regions (one for each part), and each region contains one 'part' combination
21:24.37Z80-Boyyes
21:24.50``Erikso if you change a bolt size, BOTH regions see it, and you don't violate the 'one region per path' restriction
21:25.53Z80-BoyNow for example the "blue" region constains some elements with matrices
21:26.17Z80-Boyso I have to copy the region into a combo, unset the region flags and insert the combo into a region right?
21:26.39Z80-BoyI can not only change sizes of things but also their mutual positions.
21:28.18Z80-BoyWhat all do I have to do to properly deregionize?
21:31.27``Erikum, I'd try to create a new region with the material and only one 'child', the old region... then figure out how to turn off the region bit on the old region, so it's just a plain combination
21:31.51``Erik<-- doesn't know jack about USING the software, just a tiny bit about what's under the hood
21:32.12``ErikI'm a mechanic, not a pilot
21:32.44Z80-BoyWhat happens if I only turn off the region bit but don't remove LOS, material ID shader colour etc.?
21:32.51Z80-Boydoes BRL-CAD get into an inconsistent state or not?
21:32.58``Erik(kinda more the machinist building the tools and parts for the mechanics... but that's going awful far on an analogy tangent)
21:35.53brlcadZ80-Boy: again, color has nothing to do with it being a region or not
21:36.11brlcadyou just happened to make regions via the commands you used (presumably the r command)
21:36.26brlcadyou can "unset" them as regions using the combination editor on the edit menu
21:36.35brlcadyep
21:36.50brlcadbeing a region really is just a 0/1 bit flip on a combination
21:37.05brlcadand relating to physical space _occupancy_
21:37.40``Erikon disk... right? regions and combinations have a few different 'in-memory' data bits, I think?
21:38.00brlcadso you have whatever grey hierarchy of objects, you can create another hierarchy separate from that with all of the colors set, or set the colors at two levels with an override
21:39.36brlcad``Erik: not really for what he's doing, but yes -- there are a few other relevant parameters like LOS thickness, aircodes, the actual region ident code, etc
21:39.59brlcadbasically things that affect spatial occupancy or evaluation of that occupancy
21:40.05``Erikis it possible to demote a region to a combination?
21:40.13``Erikwithout killing and rebuilding it?
21:40.16brlcadyep
21:40.24brlcadjust open the combination editor and uncheck the region box
21:40.37``Erikthere ya go, karel :D
21:40.56Z80-Boy``Erik: just did it :)
21:40.59brlcadit really is just an on/off flag on combinations from mge's perspective
21:41.00``Erik(is there a command backed way to do it? for a geek who doesn't wanna keep grabbing the mouse? or someone doing it in a script?)
21:41.14brlcadhrm, there is..
21:41.18Z80-BoyI did it with red
21:41.28brlcadsomething like attr put region 0
21:41.29Z80-BoyI just had to turn off the plastic and the colour otherwise it complained warning
21:41.40brlcadforget the exact
21:41.45brlcadthere's a half-dozen ways
21:42.09brlcadZ80-Boy: it complained probably because color override wasn't set
21:42.24Z80-Boybrlcad: what is color override good for?
21:42.47Z80-Boycan you have a combo with assigned color that overrides color of underlying regions?
21:42.48brlcadsays whether the top-level color overrides lower-level colors
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21:44.46Z80-BoyHmm when you do B before the previous B finishes, it often hangs or segfaults.
21:44.57Z80-BoyAdvanced treatment of cricial sections, I would guess.
21:45.24brlcadreally?  huh
21:45.35brlcadi've not seen that
21:45.38Z80-Boy``Erik: I could save al lthe work you said
21:45.57Z80-BoyI just got it. All I need to do is put the colourful thing into a combo tick up inherit set colour and plastic
21:46.01Z80-Boyand it doesn't complain!
21:46.05CIA-28ow
21:46.09Z80-BoyIf it's gonna segfault is a different question ;-)
21:46.26Z80-Boybrlcad: is that a correct method?
21:46.53brlcadyep
21:47.00Z80-BoyWhy didn't you tell?
21:47.01brlcad(thought that's what I said) :)
21:47.23brlcadsaid create a separate hierarchy, set colors and inherit
21:47.30``Erikok, yeah, that sounds a bit easier than doing a per-combination hoist
21:47.46Z80-Boywhat's a separate hierarchy and a hoist?
21:48.05Z80-Boynow I understand what the inherit is for
21:48.12brlcadgreat :)
21:48.14Z80-Boyit should be called "overpain" or something like that
21:48.17Z80-Boyoverpaint
21:49.01brlcadit says during mater command "Lower nodes inherit this node's material settings" or something pretty similar
21:49.24brlcadlikewise the help option on the comb editor
21:49.27Z80-Boydoes it also inherit the material weight?
21:49.41Z80-Boydensity I mean
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21:51.21brlcadgood question.. I don't believe so
21:51.32Z80-Boyso it's just a cosmetic thing
21:51.36Z80-Boyand refraction index?
21:51.45brlcadyeah, afairemember, it's the shader
21:51.48brlcadand color
21:52.31brlcadrefraction index is a shader parameter for phong, so yeah
21:53.30Z80-BoyOK thanks now it's all easy
21:53.37brlcadlets you quickly do things like create a new top-level combination called "glasstank" and turn a whole tank into glass (if you wanted such an effect), and likewise up and down a hierarchy
21:53.51Z80-Boyexactly! That's almost what I want!
21:54.51prasad_mmm glass
21:54.56*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos_ (n=Me@dsl245.esjtvtli.sover.net)
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22:06.05nedkobrlcad: can you please add lash project (http://cia.vc/stats/project/LASH) to CIA-MIA,#lac
22:06.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (geometree/Makefile.am swidgets/scripts/Makefile.am): missed a couple dirs, include pkgIndex.tcl and tclIndex in the dist
22:07.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Windows/Makefile.am: missed command.png, add to dist
22:07.38*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos___ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
22:08.01brlcadnedko: done
22:08.14nedkobrlcad: thanks!
22:09.11brlcadnp
22:16.40``Erikheh, nifty
22:17.50``Eriksuch a brlcad move... http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/alreadylicked128392284542500000.jpg
22:18.07brlcadhehe
22:30.51CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r341 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/src/stupidBot.cpp: ws
22:31.29CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r342 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): methods to let the bot respond to methods privately instead of public if it's a channel message.
22:37.45*** part/#brlcad nedko (n=nedko@89.253.148.98)
22:47.45CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r343 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp):
22:47.45CIA-28libirc: make stuff that is supposed to be private to the bot class, be well private.
22:47.45CIA-28libirc: move the isForMe method to protected, and make it virtual in case anyone wants to override it's logic with more complex logic.
23:02.36*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.179.226)
23:03.39CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r344 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): data utils for the config class
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23:04.23*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
23:16.04yukonbob!ah right -- Heroes night tonight...
23:17.29brlcad:)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071120

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071120

00:25.58*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
00:26.44CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r345 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): read and write full config files as needed by the calling code
03:20.31*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:55.37*** join/#brlcad lachyg (n=lachlan@ppp121-45-2-37.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net)
03:56.35lachygHi.  Does anyone know why a translation through matrix manipulation might cause the translation to have a magnitude five times the values entered?
03:59.40*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu)
04:07.25lachygmged> l plate.leds.c
04:07.36lachyg<PROTECTED>
04:07.59lachygmged> arced plate.leds.c/led.r.c matrix rmul xlate 0 0 -500
04:08.07lachygmged> l plate.leds.c
04:08.17lachyg<PROTECTED>
04:48.34brlcadmagnitude 5x?
04:48.57brlcadthat's e-13 .. which is pretty much "zero"
04:49.35brlcadjust seeing some floating point fuzz 13 decimal places out
05:00.35lachygYeah.
05:00.41lachygLook at the first component, though.
05:40.03CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r347 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/botlib.h src/botlib.cpp): redo the message system so that messages can send back themselves, and have a reply method
05:55.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/reshoot.c: anything using the bu offset macros needs to include stddef.h for the standard offset macros. other minor mods for bu_exit.
05:59.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: add reshoot to the build/install including its manual page documentation.
05:59.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: ignore reshoot product
06:01.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: the version files are no longer generated, remove from ignore list
06:01.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: version file too
06:03.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/Makefile.am: compile hurt, just don't install it.
06:04.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/.cvsignore: ignore hurt
06:06.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: install the terra.dsp file since it's needed by terra.g; adds missing file to dist
06:07.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/Makefile.am: install the brep.txt file for kicks and wiggles so it's not missing from source dist
06:13.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/archlinux/Makefile.am: include PKGBUILD.static in the dist if it's in the checkout
06:14.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/Makefile.am: include doxygen_structure in the dist
06:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (win32-msvc7/Makefile.am win32-msvc8/Makefile.am): missing files from dist
06:22.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/Makefile.am: add script files mising from dist
06:25.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/archer/Makefile.am: archer.bat missing from source dist, add it
07:16.20*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
07:19.24*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-86-16.dclient.hispeed.ch)
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11:15.17lachygHi.  Is there a way to draw a combination with a translation without changing its location in the database?
11:15.36lachygSomething along the lines of "draw table.c 0 0 -100"
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15:51.25brlcadlachyg: if you're in edit mode, you can do the tra and then reject the change
15:52.02brlcadthe database is only changed after you do apply or accept
15:53.16lachygOk, thanks.
15:54.25brlcadyou can also put the object into another container that has a matrix applied if it's something you frequently want to do
15:54.40brlcadcomb tablemoved.c u table.c
15:54.52brlcadoed / tablemoved.c/table.c/path/to/prim
15:55.00brlcadtra 0 0 -100
15:55.02brlcadaccept
15:55.39lachygHmm, that's probably not a bad idea.
15:55.42lachygThanks for that.
16:33.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/Makefile.am: add rleccube to the build
16:33.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/cnv/Makefile.am: readd the disabled converters so they make the dist
16:34.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/man/Makefile.am: add pgmtorle manpage
18:26.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tkimg/ (Makefile.am base/Makefile.am png/Makefile.am): add files missing from source dist
18:29.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/libtcl_nil.a: oop, don't put the archive in cvs..
18:34.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (openNURBS/Makefile.am tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): more files missing from the source dist
18:36.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/unix/.cvsignore tk/unix/.cvsignore): more generated files to ignore
18:37.29prasad_http://books.google.com/books?q=brlcad&as_brr=1
18:37.31prasad_nifty
18:51.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (walk_example.c example_geom.c): rename example_geom.c to walk_example.c to be consistent name-wise with the other *_example program samples.
19:16.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/walk_example.c: restructure cleanup for bu_exit, move struct comments to where they're actually used, cleanup usage, remove progname.
19:16.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/Makefile.am: add walk_example to the build, but don't install it.
19:19.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/db/Makefile.am: need terra.dsp in the dist
19:20.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 6 dirs): add more files missing from the source dist
19:24.07*** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
19:25.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/.cvsignore: ignore walk_example
19:30.13*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-86-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:26.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/plane.h: obsolete private header -- the contents were added to bn.h a long time ago
20:28.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (9 files in 9 dirs): and now what I think is the final batch of files missing from the source distribution, woot!
20:44.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/Makefile.am: blt.mak not blt.make
20:45.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: include gforge.sh in dist
20:45.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Makefile.am: include eagleCAD.bmp in source dist
20:47.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/Makefile.am:
20:47.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: enhance the dist hook so that it checks whether files listed in CVS are actually
20:47.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: included in the source dist that we end up with. makes it a heck of a lot
20:47.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: easier to ensure that we have all the files that we're supposed to come time to
20:47.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: make a source release.
20:58.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/Makefile.am: gah, one more. add brep-test.cpp to dist
22:23.49*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.103.90)
22:41.51*** join/#brlcad electron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
22:49.35*** join/#brlcad bpoole (n=bpoole@UNIX31.andrew.cmu.edu)
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22:57.15*** join/#brlcad Apathy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
22:58.43brlcadlike tv programming?
22:59.43bpooleah Maryland, I'm on the way there now :)
23:03.48*** join/#brlcad electron (n=MinuteEl@silentflame/member/pdpc.base.minuteelectron) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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23:03.52*** join/#brlcad lachyg (n=lachlan@ppp121-45-2-37.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
23:03.52*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
23:03.52*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071121

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071121

00:02.14``Erikheh
00:02.31``Erikso if one were, too, come up with a program for a school recital... :D
01:17.33*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:04.53Twingyhttp://gizmodo.com/gadgets/inspirational/napkin-notebook-an-idea-so-good-it-must-have-been-written-on-a-napkin-325182.php
03:08.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
04:51.22brlcadheh
07:09.41*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-86-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:16.51*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-86-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:34.10*** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
07:49.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: itemize the critical items remaining for this release .. bu_bombing, rt parallel crash bug, incrtcl search woes, and testing parallel crash reporting.
07:51.15Defconwoes = troubles ???
08:15.02*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:09.12louipcDefcon: correct
11:12.15Defconok
11:46.24Z80-Boybrlcad: I found out how to easily generate a city full of skyscrapers for 3D model background
11:46.32Z80-Boyjust use the function n^(n+13) ;-)
11:46.44Z80-Boyor change 13 to a different constant it will generate a different style skyscrapers
11:47.25Z80-Boy^ means XOR
11:53.54Defconand n = ??
11:57.18Z80-Boyinteger
12:03.21Defconyeah :)
12:03.44Defconi know you cant add 13 to a string
13:00.49DefconCamdoggle: let me be apart of the development team
13:00.49DefconBen174: key word being 'apart'
13:00.51Defcon:)
13:05.30*** join/#brlcad iday (n=jlowens@bz.bzflag.bz)
13:51.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tcl/Makefile.am tk/Makefile.am): if we're building against system tcl/tk, then there's no unix dir to traverse into if we're doing an out-of-src build. this fixes distcheck on said platform situations too
14:00.28*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875673.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:22.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (7 files in 2 dirs): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
15:29.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/png_info.c: change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling. Include stdlib for EXIT_FAILURE.
15:30.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/ (bw-png.c dsp_add.c png-bw.c png-pix.c remapid.c): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
15:30.35prasad1``Erik: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/28170.html
15:32.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/iges.c: char*label isn't munged, so make it const
15:33.41``Erikheh
15:34.12Defconlol
15:35.15prasad1shatner one wasn't as funny
15:45.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-euclid1.c: change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
15:52.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgtree.c: change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling. Include stdlib for EXIT_FAILURE.
15:53.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (animedit.c clone.c cmd.c edsol.c solids_on_ray.c): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
15:57.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
16:03.05brlcad:)
16:03.44brlcadso you got that you leave the bu_bomb's where the sky is falling and/or they're situations where you might actually want a stack trace at that point
16:04.20brlcadpretty much none/most of the "non-library" code
16:04.51brlcadI cleared out about 1000 instances already, there are about 500 left iirc
16:04.54``Erikyeah
16:05.02CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/spectrum.c: stdlib.h needed for EXIT_FAILURE
16:05.21``ErikI'm doing a grep to look for lame messages like "this argument is bad" and sed'ing those
16:05.28``Erikum
16:05.41``Erikbomb() indicates some kinda failure? :D
16:07.07``Erikbu_bomb(""); is annoying cuz I can't just say whether or not it's legit from a grep :/
16:07.41``Erikg_qa and hurt are ugly that way
16:08.06``Erikonce I get the bu_bombs out of the way, I'll go back and fix those up so they use bu-exit's varargs
16:10.00brlcadyeah, that was part of the "split" for bu_exit ..
16:10.02brlcadbu_bomb was/is being used in two distinct ways
16:10.36brlcadthis breaks out that "other" way that sprung up over the years and returned it to its original purpose (halting on critical failures)
16:10.48``Erikthe bu_log();bu_bomb(); is what I'm on to next... :)
16:10.51``Erikare you in the office?
16:10.55brlcadyeah
16:11.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
16:11.08``Erikdave g was asking around for lunch earlier
16:11.33*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz)
16:18.06``Erikgettext() translations would be a bitch heh
16:19.28poolio``Erik: The sky is falling when I call bu_bomb().
16:19.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/ (15 files): change bu_bomb to bu_exit when the sky isn't really falling
16:20.02``Erikum
16:20.07``Eriknut uh
16:20.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: note bu_exit() in addition to bu_bomb()
16:20.41``Erikmalloc() and fprintf() still work when you call it, so bu_exit() is better
16:25.18brlcadand it has varargs so those lil bu_bomb buffers being sprintfed into before bu_bomb can go away
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18:10.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/hurt.c: print using bu_exit instead of bu_log
18:17.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: print using bu_exit instead of bu_log
18:18.19*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
18:18.40yukonbobHi dee ho, funseekers
18:19.20``Erikwhaddup, b?
18:20.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: print using bu_exit instead of bu_log
18:33.58*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
18:40.17yukonboboh -- saw a nice sunrise, but now its above the cloud cover -- another grey day in Whitehorse
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18:52.34``Erikow, my poor eyes
18:56.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/util/ (73 files): exit->bu_exit where applicable
19:06.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/conv/ (28 files in 4 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable
19:10.08CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (32 files): exit->bu_exit where applicable
19:28.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (45 files in 13 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable
19:49.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (25 files in 7 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable
19:52.23CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/external/ (3 files in 2 dirs): exit->bu_exit where applicable
20:43.03louipcyukonbob: what time is sunrise there?
20:49.12``Erikheh
20:49.24``Erik<-- monkey that got a hold of sed O.o
20:49.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (188 files in 27 dirs): pass bu_exit a NULL instead of an empty string
20:50.18brlcado.O
20:50.43``Erikhrm?
20:51.31brlcadjust fearful of seddage wrt bomb/exit stuff
20:51.40``Erikheh
20:51.46``ErikI've spent the last few hours in cvs diff's.
20:52.35``Eriksed anything programming is skeery, I've been reasonably careful :)
20:53.11yukonboblouipc: sun low (but up) just before I posted -- officially listed as 9:18, down 4:14 -- seems to be losing ~2.5minutes on rise and 2minutes on set per day -- so ~4.5minutes light/day -- though where I'm at, there's mountains that block the sun before it's officially "set".
20:54.12yukonbobsed/verify w/ ediff in emacs... (or equiv in vim?)
20:54.34``Erikwait, uh... you saw the sunrise? you actually stepped away from the 'puter and out of your igloo?
20:55.10yukonbobheh - I've got a south facing window that lets me see the sun skim the horizon from e->w.
20:57.51yukonbobif /me gets his auto fixed by ~soltice, maybe take a trip toward arctic circle to get 24h darkess...
20:58.30yukonbob^-- this just occured to me -- lots of people go to the arctic circle for summer solstice, but I doubt many for winter...
20:58.48louipcah that's not bad I was thinking it rises at 1200 and sets at 1300
20:58.51louipchhah
20:59.54dtidrow24hr aurora watching  :-)
21:00.14yukonboblouipc: no -- it gets as bad as ~10am->3:30pm in Whitehorse
21:00.41yukonbobdtidrow: could be -- last winter hardly saw any lights, though.
21:01.47yukonbobhave seen whole sky lit up -- better than a Pink Floyd laser show ;) -- esp. fun if you're leaving a bar after a good night...
21:02.02dtidrowheh
21:02.32dtidrowbet you had some real fireworks a few years ago
21:02.47yukonbob?why
21:03.01dtidrow'02 or so, IIRC, there were some monster solar flares
21:03.08yukonbobah --
21:03.54dtidrowwe're about at the sunspot minimum now, so the sun's pretty quiet
21:04.11yukonbobthat could explain last year's suckiness
21:05.39dtidrowhttp://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/
21:06.10dtidrowhttp://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/ - back around '02 there were lots of spots visible
21:07.49``Erikhum... staring at the sun to see spots... O.o
21:07.49``Erik:D
21:08.32yukonbobthere's a little black spot on the sun today...
21:08.55dtidrowlol
21:11.26louipcsmaller than the earth little?
21:13.01yukonboblouipc: dunno, but it's the same old thing as yesterday
21:13.43dtidrowhttp://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/gallery/images/large/spotcollage.jpg - this was the spot that fired off a huge flare
21:22.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c: quell type warning on 64b build
21:46.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/fbserv.c: pad with 0's to keep the compiler from complaining about casting 32b int->ptr on 64b systems (and just hope we don't cross 4g)
21:49.13``Erikhum, tcl/tk 8.5b3 is out
21:52.03``Erikmainly related to interfacing tcl
21:52.56yukonbob?really
21:53.06``Erikyeah
21:53.20``Erikint a; TclSomething((void *)a);
21:53.22``Erikthat kinda thang
21:53.58``ErikI'm marking them with (void *)(size_t)a right now :/
21:54.26``Erikbut that int should be size_t to start with, I'd imagine... 'cept they're ALSO used as ints, sometimes...
21:54.26yukonbobhrmm... /me guesses pretty much all langs would be the same...
21:55.48``Eriknah, most dont' have explicit points and ill fitting types
21:56.07``Erikok, like "shiney toy guns", I'm gonna go ride the race cars :D bbl
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071122

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071122

00:18.33``Erikyukon: the issues I'm seeing will technically work with tcl 64b, as long as you don't cross the 4g threshhold...
00:18.36``ErikI THINK
00:19.00``ErikI might do something silly in mged like a fistful of big allocs to push all the 'working' stuff up past the 32b barrier to see what happens
00:37.18``Erikand I'm used to doing silly things... http://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/software.php?id=1
00:37.20``Erik:)
00:39.43yukonbobheh
00:40.08yukonbobwell  -- you could use tcl to try to break itself from w/i mged...
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06:41.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: bu_exit() won't generate a core dump because of the bu_setjmp exception handler. never gets to the abort. mention gdb.
07:04.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtshot.c: bu_exit formats the exit statement distinctly, don't confuse it as a complete drop-in replacement for bu_log+exit
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12:24.56Z80-Boybrlcad: this is generated through a simple XOR. Can one put it into a height field and transform into a "city background"? http://ronja.twibright.com/mrakodrapy.png
12:26.17Z80-BoyOr does the height field have problem with "vertical walls"?
12:37.47DEFCON_was that the n+(2)^n
12:37.52DEFCON_or sumthing?.
12:39.29DEFCON_Z80-Boy : http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/ronja_new1_chimney_1.png
12:39.32DEFCON_is that yours?
13:18.17DEFCON_"What describes one complete turn of a rotating object?"
13:18.20DEFCON_revolution?
13:23.25Z80-BoyDEFCON_: yes that's mine
13:23.43Z80-BoyIt's generated through sum=(i+25)^i^(i+7)^(i+6);
13:23.56Z80-BoyWhere i goes from 0 to 255 and indicates the column
13:24.03Z80-Boysum indicates how long black line you draw
13:24.07DEFCON_ok
13:24.31DEFCON_weird outcome
13:24.36Z80-BoyIsn't that interesting? Such a simple algorithm generating so sophisticated and nice structure?
13:24.41DEFCON_i mean it's mirrored
13:24.57DEFCON_indeed, very interesting
13:25.16Z80-BoyI used bw-png to get it from raw data into png. Very useful these brl-cad tools.
13:25.32DEFCON_indeed :)
13:25.45DEFCON_bw-png= black&white?
13:25.47Z80-Boyyes
13:25.51Z80-Boyand pix-png makes RGB
13:26.00DEFCON_k
13:26.21Z80-Boya no-bullshit tool you don't have to study the manpage for half a yeat to be able to perform a simple task.
13:26.29Z80-Boyyeat -> year
13:26.38DEFCON_indeed :)
13:28.52DEFCON_Dim sum As Integer
13:28.54DEFCON_lol
13:28.55DEFCON_dimsum :)
13:28.57DEFCON_anyway
13:29.08DEFCON_sum could be a double?
13:29.13DEFCON_sum could be a *float?
13:32.03DEFCON_Z80-Boy
13:32.04DEFCON_=1 -> 1,73183888392163E+79
13:32.04DEFCON_i=2 -> 1,30732040222852E+206
13:32.04DEFCON_i=3 -> oneindig
13:32.04DEFCON_i=4 -> oneindig
13:32.12DEFCON_oneindig mean Infinitive
13:32.21DEFCON_what am i doing wrong?
13:33.03DEFCON_are u sure it's this: sum=(i+25)^i^(i+7)^(i+6)
13:33.04DEFCON_?
13:33.13DEFCON_3 times "to the power of"
13:38.59Z80-BoyDEFCON_: ^ is XOR, not power!
13:43.49DEFCON_oohhwww
13:43.51DEFCON_:)
13:43.52DEFCON_ok
13:46.22DEFCON_i=1 -> 20
13:46.22DEFCON_i=2 -> 24
13:46.22DEFCON_i=3 -> 28
13:46.22DEFCON_i=4 -> 24
13:46.24DEFCON_better :)
13:46.34DEFCON_how on earth did u find that formula
13:46.35DEFCON_?
13:55.24Z80-Boytried out
14:03.52DEFCON_ohw :)
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14:21.31DEFCON_Z80-Boy : http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text/
14:21.34DEFCON_try it out
14:21.39DEFCON_brb
14:31.26DEFCON_if u use: sum = (i + 25) Xor i
14:31.44DEFCON_then u don't have that white line in each 'building'
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14:33.02Z80-BoyDEFCON_: doesn't do anything
14:33.50DEFCON_?
14:33.57Z80-BoyOh it doesn't work in Links
14:34.07DEFCON_http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text/  ??
14:34.11DEFCON_works here
14:34.13Z80-BoyBut why did you make the boundaries settable and not the constants 25, 7, 6?
14:34.17Z80-BoyIt works in Firefox
14:34.33DEFCON_i'm bussy with the constants
14:34.33DEFCON_:)
14:35.20DEFCON_it also works in ie7
14:35.26DEFCON_but i suppose u don't use that :)
14:38.22Z80-BoyDEFCON_: program faster :)
14:42.14DEFCON_:)
14:42.16DEFCON_try again
14:47.37Z80-BoyInteresting
14:48.24Defcondoes it work well?
14:48.27Z80-BoyYes
14:48.34Defconok
14:48.46Z80-BoyOnce did an error but I guess you might have been adjusting something
14:49.09Defconcould be
14:49.42Defconif you loop from 0 to 480, it kinda give a perfect output
14:49.56Defconsmall, big, biggest, big, small
14:50.08Defconusing your constants that is
14:52.41Defconhmm
14:52.47Defconi should get back to work
14:53.13Defconbut math's is so much more interesting then selecting and updating sql data
14:53.15Defcon:(
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15:51.30Defcon_cya tomorrow all
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17:00.49``Erikheh, the grunt does the lifting, the guru corrects the oopses :/ I feel like such a newb.
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17:49.15yukonboblouipc: sun is coming up for me now... :)
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18:51.13IriX64mmmm if you change tkUnixRfont to tkUnixFont in /src/other/tk/unix/makefile, bwish compiles and links just fine.
18:51.53IriX64err if you recompile tk that is :)
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20:55.16``Erikmeh, shoulda gone to missoura
21:11.54yukonbobheh -- for a sec. I though you were jar-jar binks "meessa shoulda gone to missoura"
21:21.46``ErikAC_PROG_CC searches for various fortran and C compilers
21:21.49``Erikwoops
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22:33.35``Eriky'know
22:33.52``ErikI this would be better if the flashbacks were in chinese and subtitled
22:34.11``Erikthe english 'flashback' stuff is stilted and odd
22:34.15``Erikin a bad way
22:37.07``Erikquit that, you
22:40.27NotAContradictiosorry
22:40.28NotAContradictiogot banned
22:40.40NotAContradictioWell, bz.bzflag.bz did.
22:40.46NotAContradictioand it all got wierd.
22:41.23``ErikO.o
22:41.31``Erikweird, you mean.. weird is a weird word :D
22:41.38NotAContradictiolol
22:41.40NotAContradictioyes
22:41.51``Erikironical
22:41.53NotAContradictioIn #mediawiki - the op says it was something to do with the CIA echo bot, or something.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071123

00:12.06``Erik"I seek not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions" ... damn brilliant
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06:35.03louipcheck the what?
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14:16.03``Erikblargh.
14:17.45``Eriktoo many people parked infront of the building :( I wanted to just pull in sideways instead of following the lines
14:20.54Defcon:)
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20:37.11illethalHello
20:49.35yukonbobhello, illethal
20:54.41illethalI just installed BRL-CAD, and I'm trying to make something.
20:54.43illethalBut failing.
20:54.56illethalAny beginners information?
20:56.49yukonbobthere are documents, yes -- check out... (/me looks)
20:57.19illethalI'm new to CAD but not too new to 3D.
20:59.19yukonbobhttp://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
20:59.27yukonbobyou'll want the MGED quick ref.
21:00.03illethalThanks.
21:00.18illethalI was playing with MGED and it kept telling me that I had no database selected.
21:01.44yukonbobyou need to open or create a database...
21:02.21yukonbobeverything is stored in a db -- and all saving happens "in realtime", so changes are written to the db as they are changed...
21:02.40illethalooh.
21:03.34yukonbobalso, grab http://my.brlcad.org/wiki/Image:Introduction_to_MGED.pdf
21:03.49illethalThanks.
21:03.54illethalMuchly appreciated.
21:04.02illethalHow long have you been using BRL-CAD?
21:04.15yukonbobnp
21:04.52yukonbobmy usage... ~6mos maybe...
21:04.52yukonbob+/-
21:05.12yukonbobnot new to 3D or CSG -- worked with POVRay over time
21:05.23illethalDamn
21:05.35illethalPOVRay was my first 3D prog, I never could figure out how to use it.
21:06.06yukonbobheh -- ya -- not interactive, lots of typing and imagination required.
21:06.30illethalI've seen some pretty awesome stuff done with it.
21:06.39illethalThat I couldn't even do with Maya lol.
21:07.58yukonbobthat tri-fold lists all the primitives available to you, and the commands you're likely to need/want. the longer doc (intro to mged) is a tutorial that steps you through building some models... a good read.
21:08.59illethalBut I have to have a database first, to do anything right?
21:09.06illethalHow do I get one?
21:10.44yukonbobyou can "opendb foo.g" from w/i mged, or run "mged foo.g" when you're launching mged.
21:10.59yukonbob.g is the typical extension for the databases ---
21:11.20illethalLol this is like shell scripting
21:11.51yukonbobor you can File->Open
21:11.59yukonbobup to you...
21:12.05illethalOoh thanks a lot
21:12.07illethalNow I can do stuff.
21:13.20illethalSo if I create something from mged how do I see it from archer?
21:13.24illethalSorry for all these questions lol
21:13.41illethalAhh.
21:13.51illethalHow do I render what I've created?
21:14.05yukonbobiiuc, archer is just another (kind-of next gen) editor like mged is though...
21:14.20yukonbob"e"
21:14.25illethalYeah it has a commandline
21:14.27yukonboboh
21:14.40yukonbobno -- e will display wireframe
21:15.08yukonbobFile-Raytrace, or learn the 'rt' command-line tool
21:15.18yukonbob*File->Raytrace
21:15.25illethalomg
21:15.31illethalbrl-cad is so cool.
21:17.43illethalWhat kind of geometry is this?
21:17.44illethalPolygons?
21:17.54yukonbobTcl (programming language) is available to you for scripting/extending your work -- mged is written in tcl/tk, and provides the full power of the Tcl programming lang (http://www.tcl.tk)
21:17.59yukonbobCSG
21:18.03yukonbobconstructive solid geometry
21:20.59illethalCool stuff.
21:22.13illethalCan I see some stuff that you've done with brl cad?
21:23.46yukonbobindeed -- an now I gotta fly :) -- READ THE DOCS!! You'll thank me later -- BRL-CAD may seem archaic in some respects, but I bet you'll see that it was written by obviously intelligent people, and that once you learn a few of it's ways/commands, etc, you'll start being able to exploit it's power... if you're a Tcl programmer, you'll be able to use that, if you're a C programmer, BRL-CAD offers advanced libraries to tap into...
21:24.36illethalLol I'm an HTML programmer =P
21:24.41illethalThanks a lot. Take care.
21:24.49yukonbobwell, then read the docs and just tinker...
21:24.58yukonbobstill a powerful system :)
21:25.08illethalSeems badass.
21:29.59yukonbobhttp://www.methodlog
21:30.12illethalIn my graphics window
21:30.22illethalI pressed some f8 buttons and ctrl+y
21:30.28yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/newhub.png
21:30.31illethalNow it's spinning on it's y axis, how do I get it to stop? lol
21:30.35yukonbob0
21:30.40illethalThanks
21:31.14illethalThat's a pretty cool trick
21:31.19illethalHow can I dolly around my model?
21:31.24illethalTo look at it, is that possible?
21:31.26yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/wheel_cropped.png
21:31.38yukonbobx, y, z in the display window will rotate it
21:31.53yukonboband 0 to stop, but you know that now :)
21:32.05illethalOoh, this is cool.
21:32.06yukonbobX Y Z to move in other direction...
21:32.19illethalI have this yellow menu on the left.
21:32.29illethalBut I can't click on 'em.
21:32.29yukonbobmultiple X (or x, y, z etc) to speed up rotation
21:33.31illethalThanks, awesome.
21:33.41yukonbobhttp://www.methodlogic.net/flat/gfx/housecomp.png
21:33.51illethalNice renders
21:34.08yukonbobthat's rt
21:34.10illethalThat's like impossible for me to even imagine making.
21:34.16illethalIn BRL-CAD.
21:35.15yukonbobanyway -- I'm really off -- welcome to BRL-CAD -- brlcad  and ``Erik  are the two primary devs (that I know) hang out here and are both friendly and helpful.
21:35.39illethalThanks a lot, I'm gonna get into this.
21:35.40illethalSee ya!
21:38.42dtidrow_workillethal: did you see some of the screenshots on the brl-cad website?
21:39.43illethalNope
21:39.53illethalI did see Mike Muuss modelling an Abrams though.
21:40.46illethalI found it from Wiki.
21:40.47dtidrow_workheh, way back when...
21:40.59dtidrow_workhttp://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=105292
21:41.18illethalThat's some fantastic ray tracing right there.
21:41.30dtidrow_workyeah - that Stryker model is intense
21:41.39illethalIs that the actual prototype?
21:41.53dtidrow_workprobably
21:42.04illethalJust makes me want to master this even more.
21:42.05dtidrow_workthink they have fielded them to Iraq now
21:42.14illethalYeah I see them on the military channel all the time.
21:42.25dtidrow_workthat model probably has all the internal details as well
21:42.51illethalDoes that much geometry use up very much ram with BRL-CAD?
21:43.09dtidrow_workone of the main things that brl-cad is used for is vulnerability analysis, so they need to have all the internal details there
21:43.27illethalLike to weaponery?
21:43.38illethalDo you guys work for the government?
21:43.44illethalCause that's what I want to do.
21:44.00dtidrow_workprobably, but remember that most of the parts are CSG - cylinders, spheres, plates, etc.
21:44.42dtidrow_workand unions/intersections thereof, so the storage requirements are probably different than if you used polys for everything
21:45.13dtidrow_workwell, some of the people here work for the gov't
21:45.25illethalThe most hardcore geometry I've ever used is NURBS.
21:45.31illethalSo I'm pretty noob to this.
21:45.44dtidrow_workthough I think brlcad is actually a contractor
21:46.04dtidrow_workiirc, they have a nurbs model in brl-cad somewhere
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21:47.31illethalhttp://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/apc/apcrender6.jpg
21:47.40illethalThis is one of my models.
21:47.53illethalmade in Maya though, super easy compared to this.
21:48.45dtidrow_workyeah, the modeling package for brl-cad could use some work  :-)
21:48.45IriX64http://rafb.net/p/fzPoBS72.html   <----- a mite
21:49.34IriX64sorry to have intruded
21:50.14illethalWhat's this?
21:51.20illethalHey.
21:51.26dtidrow_workheh, typical irc channel
21:51.36dtidrow_workpeople jump in the middle  ;-)
21:51.37illethalI pressed f8 I think, and I got this yellow menu on the side.
21:51.40illethalHow do I use it?
21:51.43illethalin Mged.
21:51.48illethalSOL EDIT.
21:52.14illethalhttp://micah.noobgrinder.com/misc/mged.jpg
21:52.18dtidrow_workillethal: I'm as much of a noob at mged as you  :-\
21:52.58illethalOh noes!
21:53.04illethalIt seems so cool though
21:53.21dtidrow_workday after thanksgiving is always a bit dead...
21:53.34illethalOh yeah happy belated thanksgiving
21:54.26IriX64http://rafb.net/p/R57Eye19.html  <---- nother, and whatd you see :)
22:19.23illethalDoes anyone here use Linux?
22:23.36dtidrow_workseveral of the people here do
22:23.49dtidrow_workeither that or some BSD variant
22:24.04illethalDo you know if BRL-CAD is in repositories and stuff?
22:24.11illethalIf I can like get it with aptitude.
22:24.20illethalI'm on Windows right now
22:24.38dtidrow_workdunno about that, but it's easy to d/l the cvs version and compile
22:25.17dtidrow_workI think it's pretty much self-contained, but not entirely sure about that
22:26.15illethalOkay thanks.
22:26.29illethalSo this is what the government uses to engineer all their weapons systems and tanks and stuff?
22:27.27dtidrow_workwell, that's probably overstating things
22:27.52illethalMost of the tanks and weapons systems? =P
22:28.30dtidrow_worklike I said, they do use it to analyze how vehicles respond to getting hit with various weapons
22:28.52dtidrow_workthough brlcad can talk more about what all it's being used for
22:29.09illethalCool.
22:29.19illethalI'd have to be a math genius to do that job though
22:29.21illethalWhich I am not.
22:30.36illethalI'll be back later.
22:30.43louipcillethal: yeah I think there's a debian package
22:31.03louipcI'm on linux too, archlinux though
22:37.49*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
23:02.27illethalArchlinux is awesome
23:03.26louipchellyea
23:03.31``Erikheh
23:03.47louipcillethal: you can get brl-cad from AUR
23:03.47illethalGood day Erik.
23:03.51``Erik'sup?
23:04.05illethalJust got Mged, it's pretty cool.
23:04.11illethalMega noob here =D
23:04.30louipc``Erik is all about fbsd, he keeps making snide remarks about leewnooks or however he says it :P
23:04.44``Erik:D
23:04.47illethal=(
23:05.09``ErikI was putting together a make_deb.sh script, I dont' remember if I finished it or not
23:05.25illethalFor what?
23:05.33``ErikBRL-CAD
23:05.53illethalCool.
23:06.02``Erikit's in like misc/ or something if you wanna poke at it
23:06.27illethalI'm on Windows right now.
23:06.33``Erikwait, the script is in sh/, the debian dir is in misc/
23:06.49illethalbrlcad.org/misc?
23:07.00``Erikum, misc/ in the source tarball
23:07.34illethalbrb food.
23:07.35louipchmm I guess I could make an archlinux package just from a self-contained script... it's kind of odd to circumvent using the standard tools though
23:07.43illethalI use Ubuntu.
23:07.49``Erikhttp://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/sh/make_deb.sh?revision=1.8&view=markup
23:08.05illethalMan you guys are leet.
23:08.16louipc?
23:08.21illethalElite.
23:08.38louipchow's that?
23:08.48illethalShell scripting for Linux.
23:09.01louipcshell scripting isn't leet
23:09.11``Erikof course, the fbsd port 'just works', no special steps O:-)
23:09.17louipcassembly language is elite :D
23:09.23``Erikheh
23:09.25illethalYeah
23:09.28illethalAsm is hard.
23:09.30``Erikwhich assembly language?
23:09.39illethalI've used masm.
23:09.44``Erikx86 asm is fugly, mips r2k is damn sexy
23:10.00illethalHow old are you guys?
23:10.06``Erikpdp and vax assembly was pretty cool
23:10.13illethalIf you don't mind me asking.
23:10.18``Erik<-- cut his teeth on 6502 asm
23:10.25louipc24
23:10.26illethalHaha
23:10.37illethalI'm 17.
23:10.48louipccool
23:11.00``Erikdamn I'm old :(
23:11.06illethalHaha
23:11.14illethalYou've probably been doing 3D since before I was born?
23:11.45``Eriknot really, I kinda poked at voxel stuff in the later 80's
23:11.58illethalYeah that's before me.
23:12.02``Erikbut I didn't get into 3d shtuff until about 10 years ago
23:12.06illethalAhh.
23:12.18illethalI started 3D stuff when I was 13.
23:12.21``Erikwith opengl, raytracing, 2d raster (like doom/quake)
23:12.30illethal1337.
23:12.33illethal=D
23:12.44``Erikbut I was doing kernel hacking before you were born, does that count? :)
23:12.48illethalI could learn a lot from you guys.
23:13.00illethalKernel hacking, as in, modifying the kernel?
23:13.05``Erikyeah
23:13.08illethalAwesome.
23:13.12``Erikwriting new chunks
23:13.22illethalWe didn't get a computer until 1995.
23:13.29``Erikand coding in a language lower level than assembly.
23:13.37illethalMachine language?
23:13.42illethalWhat language is that lol
23:13.55``Erikyeah, 'monitor' mnemonics
23:14.19illethalHardcore.
23:14.20louipcshoot I don't even think I got a computer till 95
23:14.38illethalHaha
23:14.45illethalmy brother got a computer in 1995.
23:14.55illethalI was only 5 so I just played the sims on it.
23:14.56illethalAnd doom.
23:14.58illethalHaha.
23:15.41``Erikmy first was a coleco adam (z80 cp/m machine) in like '83
23:15.58illethalYou could afford a computer?
23:16.01illethalBack then.
23:16.28illethalOh it's a game console.
23:16.29``Erikmy dad could, heh
23:16.31illethal?
23:16.33``Erikno, it's a real computer
23:16.39illethalLike the C64?
23:16.51illethalI want to get a commodore =)
23:16.54``Erikit could also run intellivision cartridges and had an expansion to take atari cartridges
23:17.23``Erikum, kinda like a c64, but a z80 chip and ran cp/m... big uglier
23:17.28illethalMan I wish I was into computers when I was 3.
23:17.41``Erikkinda closer to an old ibm type
23:18.03illethalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Coleco-adam.jpg
23:18.09``Erikcheck out http://www.viceteam.org/ :D
23:18.21``Erikayup
23:18.22illethalThat thing has tape?
23:18.36louipcI wish I was into guitars when I was 3
23:18.39``Erikuh huh
23:18.48``Erikheh
23:18.59illethalOoh
23:19.08illethalI wouldn't have any progs for 8bit computers
23:19.14illethalBut I've played with some music trackers.
23:19.17``Erikhttp://www.cs.uakron.edu/~margush/465/01_images/adam-computer.jpg
23:19.19illethalNever could figure out how to get it to work.
23:19.30dtidrow_work``Erik: "and coding in a language lower level than assembly" - you were writing microcode?
23:19.33illethalI bet that thing was fun.
23:19.59``Erikdon: monitor mnems, it was a simple translator that immediately puts the 'compiled' bite into the bit of memory
23:20.00dtidrow_workthat was out around the same time as the C64
23:20.09dtidrow_work``Erik: ah
23:20.10``Erikbyte
23:20.25illethalOld schoolers =)
23:20.33``Erikwhich was pretty cool, no 'compile' phase, etc
23:20.46dtidrow_workwas thinking about being able to re-do the microcode on a 11-780
23:20.47illethalWhat kind of programs did you make?
23:21.25``Erikcode up your nifty interrupt driven kernel 'wedge', then write the address into the interrupt vector table and boom, it's clicking... and when ya realize you screwed up, you power cycle the machine
23:21.58``Erik'simh's support for the 11/780 is getting fairly decent
23:23.12illethalYou own brlcad.org?
23:23.45``Erikno, brlcad does
23:23.50illethalAh.
23:23.54illethalYou just have access?
23:24.02``Erikayup
23:24.04louipcso is that a domain in his namesake or the software's?
23:24.06illethalNevermind, stupid question =P
23:24.14illethalHaha.
23:25.15``Erikit's his namesake, his parents were real asses. :D if he woulda been named 'bob', he woulda probably went to work for microsoft when they had that, uh, "product" :D
23:25.45louipchahahah
23:26.37illethal``Erik: Do you use mged?
23:26.51``Erikwhen I have to... I usually use it in 'classic' mode (mged -c)
23:27.11illethalHow do I change the shape of an object?
23:29.32``Erikum, if you want to do something that'll still keep the object the same type, 'sed' it... (solid editor)... if you want to change the type, you have to delete it and create the new one
23:29.55illethalWhat do you mean by type?
23:29.58illethalChange the primative?
23:30.00``Erikyeah
23:30.11illethalOkay how do I get out the sed?
23:30.24``Erikum, 'accept' or 'reject', they're on the menu
23:31.01illethalo.O
23:31.05``Erikummm, go to http://www.brlcad.org and download 'princeples of effective modeling' (#3)
23:31.21``Erikit's a tutorial for basic use of mged
23:31.36illethalokay
23:31.42louipcd/l #2 as well
23:31.57``Erikthe quick ref card is handy, as well
23:32.18illethalChecking out #3 as of the moment =)
23:33.57illethalThat abrams model is freakin' incredible.
23:34.12``Erikerm, which abrams model?
23:34.29illethalThe green one showing the exterior.
23:34.36illethalLooks like a blinn I think
23:35.46``Erikerm, ohh, page 3
23:36.09illethalYeah.
23:36.13illethalCan you model that well?
23:40.05illethalHmmm
23:45.31``Erikdamnit
23:45.52``ErikI installed 'sl' on my home box to fuck with people I give accounts to, but I think I'm the only one who gets stung by it :(
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071124

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071124

00:00.04b0efdidn't someone convert it to xml recently?
00:00.42``Erikum, a couple of people were working on converting the documentation to, uh, 'docbook' markup I think
00:07.50*** join/#brlcad tclr (n=user@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
03:03.22louipcdocbook xml yeah
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08:39.38Z80-BoyHow to raytrace an object with an image on the background?
08:39.49Z80-BoyWithout sacrificing one RGB combination as a background flag?
08:58.01Z80-Boybrlcad: rt -d1 reports improperly the floating point distance on pixels that miss the model. Instead of infinity it reports zero.
08:58.22Z80-BoyZero means the model is next to the eye
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18:24.25illethalGood day.
20:39.19louipchi ho
20:40.00illethalHow's it going?
20:40.15louipcnot bad. how are you liking mged?
20:40.46illethalComplex, but fun.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071125

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071125

00:05.17*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
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19:23.00yukonbob~lart empty room
19:23.00ibotthrows a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at empty room
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21:11.16yukonbobhello, cadheads
21:17.13alex_joni'lo
22:01.26louipcyo
22:05.08alex_jonig'night all
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23:49.06yukonbobSHHHHH -- people are sleeping in here...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071126

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071126

00:55.08*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
01:30.48``ErikSILENCE!
01:34.41yukonbob~lart the silence breakers
01:34.41ibotsqueezes the silence breakers till the silence breakers turns blue like papa smurf
03:41.58``ErikO.o
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10:19.25*** join/#brlcad Wim (i=565a580f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-89b767bd72a1252d)
10:22.21WimHi all
10:22.43WimI'm new to IRC, so have a little patience
10:23.12WimI'v a question about compiling BRL-CAD with Visual Studio 2005
10:23.48WimI tried to compile using the solution brlcad\misc\win32-msvc8\brlcad\brlcad.sln
10:24.19WimBut what I get are errors about missing *.h files (zlib.h among others)
10:24.56WimDo I need to tweak all the projects and add all the missing include folders?
10:26.51WimI think its good to introduce myself. I am Wim Bokkers, a software engineer at TNO, The Netherlands.
10:27.37Defconwelcome fellow Developper
10:27.53Defconfor you question, wait for brlcad or ``Erik
10:28.02Defconi'm sure they can help you
10:28.37WimYhank you for your welcome.
10:28.48WimI will wait patiently..
10:28.52Defcongood :)
10:30.46Defcon<CIA-27> BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Add 12 more projects.
10:31.00Defconseems like you need bob1961
10:31.13Defconbut he isn't here atm
10:32.12Defconmaybe it's yukonbob
10:32.45Wimok. I think that there no IRC history logged and that I can better ask my question again when he is here?
10:34.06Defconthis channel is logged
10:34.37Defconhttp://purl.rikers.org/%23brlcad/
10:35.44WimI see. Interesting.
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12:18.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (56 files in 56 dirs): Updates related to new Tcl/Tk.
12:20.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/library/pkgIndex.tcl itk/library/pkgIndex.tcl): Update version.
12:30.18Wim@CIA-28: does this mean that the win32 solution is currently being updated?
12:30.52Defconit's always being updated
12:31.02Defconand CIA-28 is a bot that announces the changes
12:31.10WimOk. I see.
12:31.14Defconbob1961 made that change
12:31.17WimMuch to learn here
12:31.39Defconextreeemely much to learn here
12:31.44Defconthat's why i'm here 2
12:31.44Defcon:)
12:32.12Wimyes. And to help guys like me
12:32.22Wim;)
12:32.27Defconnot much i can help u with :)
12:32.33Defconi'm not part of this project
12:32.45Wimwell, i learned something from you
12:32.51Defconi am a VS2005 developer tho
12:32.55Defconohw
12:33.22WimOk. Within a few days/week I'm a VS2008 developer.
12:33.35Defcontrue
12:33.41Defconit's being shipped :)
12:33.55Defconbut i didn't order it yet
12:34.10Defconi=my company
12:34.21WimI saw it. And i will place the order soon.
12:35.08Wimi=me and my company ;)
12:35.14Defconmy company says it's not necessary yet
12:35.16Defcon:)
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12:42.00Wimseems like I annoy people ;-)
12:42.01Defconhaha
12:46.05WimAt this moment bob1961 is busy with the VS8 solution. So I assume that 'my' problem will be solved soon.
12:46.15WimI'm leaving...
12:46.22Defconok :)
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16:05.29PrezKennedyeww VS developers
16:05.32PrezKennedyhaha
16:06.26PrezKennedyhey brlcad how was your thanksgiving?
16:06.42PrezKennedyi was home with the folks for the first time in about 3 months
16:09.13Defcon:p
16:10.29brlcadhowdy PrezKennedy, twas good
16:10.33brlcadaway
16:11.12brlcadhowdy Wim :)
17:12.01PrezKennedythats good brlcad
17:13.28brlcadyou all stayed in md?
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17:38.53prasad_anyone know of a lightweight c++ 2d geometry library? (i just need point & vector)
18:25.46prasad_http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~ajw/doc/svl.html :D
18:29.11PrezKennedybrlcad, yep... stayed in MD... but northern MD seems like a whole different state than southern...
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21:18.26*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but not completely set up yet, more news TBD || Release 7.10.4 is happening now
22:23.28minuteIn case anyone is interested about the status of the new website: http://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=3
22:24.34alex_joniit's not looking quite right in opera
22:24.47minuteI know.
22:24.48alex_joniwant a screenshot? or you know about it?
22:24.57alex_joniok then :)
22:25.26minuteI probably know about it, but the theme is going under a rewrite so none of the current bugs are relevant. Thanks anyway.
22:30.33poolioerrr w/ the website, the footer reads "All trademarks referenced her" and then goes under the search field
22:30.50pooliomildly amusin g:)
22:30.59minuteI bet.
23:30.03yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071127

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071127

00:00.11brlcadhowdy bob
00:30.51yukonbobhey brlcad -- what's shaking?
00:31.19yukonbobheh -- we've got a half-hour lag -- I'll tune back in @ 5 localtime for your reply...
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07:45.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/pkgIndex.tcl.in itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in): unclobber the pkg templates. the IT?.LIB_FILE names aren't presently expanded properly until we use incrtcl's configure.
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07:48.02DEFCON_hi wim
07:50.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: use the Tcl TEA build infrastructure, namely the tcl.m4 macro set, so we can locate/load the tcl/tkConfig.sh scripts that can in turn be loaded so we get the correct TCL_VERSION
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08:01.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: set ITCL_LIB_FILE to something half-sensible (even if we probably can't package require archives)
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19:38.20brlcadshame didn't get to grab ahold of Wim
19:38.22brlcadls -la
19:38.39brlcadneed to make that an alias for /names or something :)
19:39.04brlcadso I ran into a nasty universal binary bug for the release
19:39.21brlcadnot so much a bug as it is "not what I wanted dammit"
19:40.55brlcadeven knew the problem.. but completely forgot when it came time to release.  we need run-time endian checks for our byteoffsets and the rest of machine.h
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20:45.05CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: review and integrate David Loman's bot-processing and object diagram/labelling scripts. need a better libdm interface for doing textual overlays in mged.
20:45.05*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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21:13.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: Open dialog in MGED seems rather busted for scrolling and selection
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21:33.31louipc``Erik: do you use a debian specific app to create the pkg from files in misc/debian?
21:33.54``Erikyeah, uh, debhelper, fakeroot and uhhhh
21:34.17``Erikdebuild or something
21:34.19``Erikdevscripts...
21:34.41``Eriksh/make_deb.sh does some looking around to make sure the expected environment is there...
21:35.12``Erikif you can expand it to work well with debian derivatives, that'd be nutty O.o
21:35.26louipcok hehe :D
21:37.02louipcyeah I was wondering if I should add a script to the archlinux stuff to make a pkg rather than use the distro tools. But I think I'll make it use distro tools then
21:37.39louipcyukonbob: howdy
21:48.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h:
21:48.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: comment on the extensive DEPRECATED nature of the defines, types, and values
21:48.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: provided by this file indicating whether it's a symbols that's going away,
21:48.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: turning into a compile- or run-time check, or simply moving somewhere else.
21:48.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: ultimately, this entire header should get absorbed into other headers
21:48.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: (particularly those of libbu), though the method differs for each symbol.
21:50.06yukonbobbrlcad: hey :) -- got your head above water?
21:50.39``Erikoh, uh, would it be beneficial to start marking the region id deprecated?
21:50.58``Eriksome, uh, java code is looking to use it instead of the path...
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22:36.00brlcadyukonbob: not quite yet :)
22:59.55yukonbob~lart the shark
22:59.55ibotdrops a baby grand on the shark
23:00.11yukonbob~lart the shark
23:00.11ibotfrags the shark with his BFG9000
23:00.15yukonbobbetter
23:00.22yukonbob~lart the sharks
23:00.22ibotchanges the sharks's permissions to 0777 and tells the world
23:00.42yukonbobhrmm... not sure that's going to help.
23:03.26brlcad~bzfrag the sharks
23:03.27ibotACTION makes the sharks feel the effects of a shockwave
23:03.36brlcad~insult the sharks
23:04.01brlcadthat's deep
23:07.39dtidrow_work~lart the sharks
23:07.39ibotpries the sharks's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to the sharks
23:07.53yukonbob!
23:08.11yukonbobnothing to worry about now...
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071128

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071128

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04:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/README.IRIX:
04:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: beef up the IRIX readme with addition details encountered with the problem I ran
04:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: into with (yet another stupid) libtool linkage problems/bugs. more
04:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: specifically, libtool was leaving out three librt object files that were in the
04:01.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: librt_nil.la convenience library. turns out they were getting prelinked into a
04:01.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: '.al' pre-link archive with just the .l nm symbol instead of .lo causing
04:01.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: subsequent linkage failures due to the symbols that get left out.
04:19.21CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: make byteoffset and run-time byteorder detections necessary in order for Mac OS X universal binaries to actually work
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13:55.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: fix (type)(size_t)val hacks
13:56.28CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/rt/view_bot_faces.c: (type)(size_t)val hack to quell compiler warning...
14:12.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/ (53 files in 12 dirs): LOCAL->static, per machine.h deprecation list
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20:57.30CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h tie_define.h tie_kdtree.c tie_struct.h): merge of the "other" libtie...
21:07.12CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r350 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/ (5 files in 2 dirs): sources go in src
21:12.50CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r352 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc8/stupidBot.vcproj: add url handler for RSS feed reading
21:15.11``ErikI'm classy! :D
21:15.41yukonbob~bzfrag boogers
21:15.42ibotACTION fries boogers with a laser
22:20.14brlcad``Erik: you committed a bunch of tclIndex changes again (that clobbered what they are supposed to contain)
22:21.00brlcadlooks like your indices were generated from a bad btclsh, didn't have incrTcl properly loaded/initialized so it wiped out things
22:21.26brlcadthe tclIndex files throughout src/tclscripts
22:36.53yukonbobbrlcad: you and I were having a discussion re: tclIndex's whether they are for runtime or buildtime, right?
22:37.43brlcadmmm.. not ringing a specific bell :)
22:38.03brlcadthey are runtime araik
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22:39.44louipcit needs some build stub for building
22:39.52louipcin tclConfig.sh
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22:44.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (62 files in 62 dirs): Mods to use the new install tree.
22:44.46brlcadlouipc: ah, I do remember us talking about whether the .sh scripts for for run- or build-time
22:45.13brlcadI actually have it using tclConfig.sh and tkConfig.sh now in our configure
22:46.05brlcadI made that change just last night so that I could get the "actual" version number of what we're compiling against without resorting to a test app
22:46.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/treeInit.sh: Initial check-in (not finished, checking in for safety)
22:46.48brlcaditclConfig.sh is a little more tricky, though, since we don't presently have/use incrTcl's build system
22:47.22louipchah so that's why it works!
22:48.38louipcyeah I haven't had the initiative to completely learn about building tcl extensions to package them separately so I just let brl-cad take care of it
23:24.30starseekerbrlcad:  I see the tcl and tk config scripts in configure - cool :-)
23:26.44starseekerIs the plan also to use /usr/lib/itclConfig.sh?
23:26.44*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
23:29.15louipctalking about tcl stuff is taxing
23:29.22starseekerindeed
23:30.17brlcadstarseeker: problem is that it's not guaranteed to be in that path
23:30.26starseekerbrlcad:  Ah.
23:30.39brlcadI need incrTcl's m4 file so that it searches for it like tcl.m4 searches for tclConfig.sh
23:31.21brlcador at least need to replicate the searching logic
23:31.23starseekerGentoo's install doesn't seem to include the m4 file.  Hmm...
23:31.33brlcadyeah, the m4 isn't installed
23:31.35brlcadeven for tcl
23:31.38brlcadafaik
23:31.48starseekerArgh.
23:32.08brlcadwe just need to try rolling incrtcl back to using the incrtcl build
23:32.43brlcadthe biggest problem with that is incrtcl's build is exceptionally weak and was outright broken on several important platforms last I tried
23:32.55louipcgentoo uses some sed lines to change the specified build paths to point to some installed libstubs I think
23:32.55brlcadquite a lot of short-term hacks in it
23:33.28starseekerUgh.  I don't suppose they could be persuaded to fix that?
23:33.54brlcadthere's like two guys that work on incrtcl
23:34.11starseekerAh.
23:34.11brlcadone's a tcl dev that fixes things only as much as he needs to
23:34.31brlcadthe other (the main author) is a prof at a uni that works on it really hard for two weeks, and then nothing for 6 months
23:34.57starseekerSo the build system isn't likely to be high on the priority list.  
23:35.01starseekerJoy
23:35.24yukonbobwell -- I'm sure if it's patched and presented to them it'd be considered... no?
23:35.41louipctcl, itcl, etc seem to have really odd build systems to me
23:35.55brlcadwell, I still have to do *something* since right now there's no way to have brl-cad compile incrTcl and have it use anything but the same matching version of tcl installed on the system
23:36.26brlcadyukonbob: I've got patches on incrtcl's patches tracker that remained open for two years before :)
23:36.34yukonbob:P
23:36.57louipc:(
23:37.00brlcadthey finally got around to the tracker item after they'd finally ran into the problem themselves and had since changed the interface
23:37.51starseekerbrlcad:  Would they consider giving you commit access?
23:38.55louipcI bet there a few other ppl that would like commit access too
23:39.01yukonbobre: incrtcl + tcl versions -- it could be nice, but perhaps we should consider that "it makes sense" since incrtcl is so intimate with tcl... so one builds incrtcl w/ tcl (as supplied by brl-cad distro), or supplies a working incrtcl installation (which implies a tcl installation that already works with it)
23:40.45brlcadstarseeker: hard to say -- I've had that discussion with the tcl guys several times over the years
23:40.58brlcadprobably possible if someone bugged him enough about it
23:41.21brlcadbigger problem seemed to simply be that the tcl devs really (really *really*) don't like incrTcl
23:41.42brlcadeven though it is by far the most used OO extension
23:41.52starseekerpolitical?
23:41.57brlcadto the extent that they developed their own, and nobody liked it
23:42.02starseekerAh.
23:42.05brlcadso now they're redoing it again
23:42.10brlcadbut part of the tcl core
23:42.26starseekerIs that one of the reasons for the 8.5 delay?
23:42.29brlcadwhich was their biggest complaint with incrTcl .. that it hooked into tcl's core
23:43.18brlcadyeah, stupid whiney devs, political issues and posturing
23:43.26yukonbobwell, I think that tcl core is providing facilities for OOP, that one can leverage, which are taken from best of incrtcl, snit, etc., for using as resources for future OOP interfaces -- a la X providing facilities, not policies.
23:43.51brlcadyukonbob: yeah, their end result isn't likely going to be bad ..
23:44.03brlcadit was just that they're just now getting to the point where incrTcl was five years ago
23:44.27brlcadfeature-wise at least
23:44.38starseekerWell, considering the state of the Axiom community I suppose I'm in no position to comment...
23:44.49brlcadmost of the complaints that I know of were implementation under-the-hood details
23:45.17starseekerHmm.  Is there hope then that porting from incrTcl to the new core Tcl stuff would be straightforward?
23:45.23brlcadI mean, I get the complaints about code maintainability and cleanliness.. but the idea was to *integrate* incrTcl into tcl, so it used the core
23:45.42yukonbobwell -- so be it... my impression of the development is that there is a really concerted effort for "correctness", and incrtcl _always_ rubbed people the wrong way because of it's tinkering with the core (cheap solution) -- now they're at the place where it's as functional as incrtcl 5 years ago, but the code can be looked at and deemed "correct" or "good looking".
23:45.49brlcadand left plenty of room for refactoring and cleaning up .. they just didn't like the code
23:46.45starseekerOh, well.  So it goes.
23:46.48brlcadyukonbob: correct only moreso because they wrote it and now understand it rather than it actually being architecturally very different code-wise
23:47.01yukonbobbrlcad++
23:47.10yukonbobor [incr brlcad] ;)
23:47.16louipcnooooo
23:47.20yukonbobthere is a "Tclish" way to do things
23:48.20louipcL?
23:48.38brlcadheh
23:48.47yukonbobtcl, refactored
23:49.00brlcadset brlcad [expr $brlcad + 1]
23:50.28yukonbobtcl 8.5 gets lambdas
23:50.47starseekerHeh - brlcad is still away - coding at the gym now? ;-)
23:58.31louipchah they don't?
23:59.05louipcI could get my math exercises via a website in .ps format
23:59.12louipcyears ago
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071129

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071129

00:00.45starseekerIt depends.  Apparently FIT doesn't, or maybe this one is just too old...
00:01.26starseekerOr too obscure... my interests do seem to run that way sometimes
00:04.27brlcadhaven't made it out the door actually
00:05.05louipcstarseeker: maybe they just have a really weird delivery system
00:05.32starseekermade an interesting mental image - brlcad on a runner coding away
00:05.41brlcadafrican swallows
00:05.50brlcadstarseeker: i've done that before
00:05.59starseekerDoes it burn more calories? ;-)
00:06.21brlcadthe jolting is a bit hard though.. elliptical or bike are slightly easier
00:06.37starseekerAh, yes.  I'm an elliptical fan myself
00:07.19starseekerlouipc:  Apparently some years back someone implemented a basic Lisp using Forth as a substrate
00:07.45starseekerlouipc:  They published a paper and a thesis, and so far I can't find either one online anywhere.
00:08.14louipchmm
00:08.26starseekerMy local library couldn't even request the thesis from the college itself successfully - I'm going to have to try ordering a physical back issue of the journal
00:09.00starseekerI suppose it's not an idea that would appeal to most people anyway...
00:09.42starseekerIt's of interest to me in the context of building a proof backed system all the way down to the machine language itself
00:09.56louipcI guess not otherwise it might be more accessible
00:10.28starseekerI've got half a notion to scan the whole lot of 'em if I do get ahold of them, but regrettably our copyright laws have something to say about that...
00:12.16louipcin canada it's legal to put a book on a photocopier, just not to push the copy button or something
00:12.48starseekerLOL.  So all you need is a "smart" copier that identifies when a document is there and automatically copies it :-)
00:13.32louipcthey used that analogy in some p2p case ... so it's legal to present the public with what backup copies of software, music, or movies
00:13.54brlcadacademic use is one of the fair use clauses
00:14.56brlcadI scanned several entire books in college at the uni library
00:14.59louipcstarseeker: yeah you wouldn't sell it would you now?
00:15.44starseekerNo, but I understand that's irrelevant to copyright infringement
00:16.15starseekerIt has something to do with what damages you can collect, IIRC...
00:17.55starseekerSo few people actually want to learn things, the fewer artificial barriers around knowledge the better
00:19.16starseekerParticularly publicly funded research - the tax payers are paying for it, after all...
00:19.35louipcyeah of course if it's publicly funded
00:20.02starseekerI guess when universities noticed the revenue they could get from patents generated by research that was more or less the end of the "knowledge for knowledge's sake" environment...
00:22.39starseekerMaybe that's why I like open source so much - there's still a sense of fun in it
00:23.30louipcI like it because there's a sense of hope in it
00:25.40starseekerThat too
00:26.46``Erikheh
00:26.56``Erikstarseekers unified theory of computation? "it's forth all the way down"?
00:27.02starseeker:-)
00:27.34starseekerMore along the lines of "I need a way to get from machine language to Lisp that has a hope of being understood by a wide audience"
00:27.52``Erikoh, uh
00:27.56``Erikpdp assembly isn't that?
00:28.09starseekerpdp assembly?
00:28.21``Erikor ibm 704 asm? :D
00:28.38starseekerAh :-).  The other requirement is portability.
00:28.55starseekerI've heard it said you can get to a working Forth environment in a very small number of machine instructions
00:29.12``Erikso get a 704 emulator
00:29.27``ErikI mean, shit, 'car' and 'cdr' come from 704 opcodes...
00:29.51starseekerIt may be possible to do a VERY basic Lisp straight from machine code
00:29.59starseekerThat was the first Lisp, after all
00:31.43``Erikhmmm, indeed O.o
00:31.59``Erika minimal lithp can be done in 7 operations
00:32.04starseekerSweet
00:32.15``Erikuhm, paul graham has a paper explaining each of them
00:32.19starseekerI wonder what the actual minimal bootstrap path is
00:32.31``Erikthen you need another dozen or so to make a useful lisp, which will still need bits of asm
00:32.37starseekerSure.
00:33.07``Erikbut after those 7, you quickly go from writing asm to writing lithp with a little augmenting goop under the hood
00:34.02starseekerThat could be a way to go.
00:34.15``Erik(or writing forth, or writing ...)
00:34.38starseekerThe key is understandability, and (possibly) being able to prove properties of code
00:35.26``Erikthen you naturally want to avoid silicon like x86...
00:35.51``Erik:D
00:35.59starseekerIndeed.  If at all practical, I would prefer to build a system using open cores and hardware...
00:36.13starseekerI think the ultrasparc specs are out there, aren't they?
00:36.30``Erikthe reason I'm keen on a lithp/scheme 'primitive' operating system is to get away from things like mixing C function semantics with lithp function semantics
00:37.21``ErikI think so, uh, 'opensparc' or something? there're other specs that might be better to address... naturally, you want hte simplest ISA with minimal 'fancy' stuff if you really want provability... taht is, if you don't assume the hw is magic...
00:37.40starseekerAh - ha:  http://www.opensparc.net/opensparc-t2/
00:37.55``Erikcache, pipelines, variable sized opcodes, ... all complications :)
00:38.33starseekerMy take on it is pretty much as follows:  From the software standpoint, start with machine language as the assumed correct layer and work up.  Everything below that is subject to experimental verification
00:39.02starseekerOf course, some hardware designs can be verified in theory, but that's just part of the platform design.
00:39.04``Erikdig into some OS code sometime, there're so many workarounds for flawed hw, its'sick
00:39.12starseekerIndeed
00:39.56starseekerWe could just do an implementation of the lisp machine on a chip, but I'd prefer something that has a non-zero chance of doing useful work within this century ;-)
00:40.08``Erikhrmmmm
00:40.14``Erikbut those did useful work in the 80's
00:40.27starseekerTrue enough.
00:40.39``Erikarrogant academic spazzes crappe all over thenotion of 'business sense' (cuz it was evil)
00:40.51``Erikor somethin'
00:40.58yukonbobSPARC is only a spec...
00:41.00starseekerI've always wondered what a from scratch implementation of a "modern" OS would actually need from hardware, if it didn't have to do any legacy support
00:41.30starseekerFor sure Windows Vista isn't a good way to judge...
00:41.34``Erikwhat exactly defines "operating system", "modern, and "legacy support"?
00:41.51``Erikthems're fuzzy topics :D
00:42.31starseekerCapable of at least opengl level graphics, multithreaded multitasking, and implementing compilers/drivers/etc only for one hardware design
00:42.33yukonbobstarseeker: see NetBSD -- one codebase to rule them all...
00:42.40starseekeryukonbob: Heh
00:42.47``Erikis "posix" legacy support?
00:42.59starseeker``Erik:  Good question.
00:42.59``Erikwhat about supporting a ps/2 kbd when usb is available?
00:43.11starseekerI'd say usb only
00:43.24``Erikhow modern is modern? everything these days seems to be rehashing of things that were popular 20-50 years ago
00:43.26starseeker(so long as adapters exist for my IBM keyboard ;-)
00:43.52starseeker``Erik:  Oh, I don't dispute it's a fuzzy topic
00:43.54``Erikis opengl all that modern?
00:44.09starseekerNo, but it seems to still be a useful graphical standard.
00:44.21yukonbob``Erik: opengl?!!! Two minutes ago we were talking about lisp!
00:44.47``Erikwhat defines a thread? a sun style "string"? or a UNIX process? or the linux 'whatever you specify' monstrosity?
00:44.47yukonbobback to the future.
00:45.10starseekeryukonbob:  In order to support 3D graphics, you need to be able to work with graphics hardware.  There are some lisp implementations of opengl, IIRC, but they are very basic...
00:45.35starseeker``Erik:  There I'm not an expert.  
00:45.36``Erikyukonbob: I'm trying to tear down starseekers vague requirements... personally, I LIKE both lisp and opengl
00:46.21yukonbobstarseeker: of course -- I was just joking about definitions of "modern" and OpenGL -- but a couple minutes ago you were talking about implenting Lisp in Forth -- funny how "standards" change (for some definition of "standards")
00:46.24starseekerI'm not disputing those requirements are vague.  I just know I wouldn't want to try using a modern interactive CAD modeling environment on a 386 with no graphics acceleration ;-)
00:46.48``Erikhum
00:46.50starseekeryukonbob:  They're all part of the solution to the problem, or they might be
00:46.54``Eriklike one of those?
00:47.02starseekerBingo :-)
00:47.52yukonbob"a 386 with no gfx acceleration" is an implementation detail -- not a design requirement.
00:48.13starseekerIt's an example of a system that would not meet the requirements
00:48.38yukonbobwhat's that got to do with OS design, though?
00:49.22yukonboband what are the "requirements"? It wasn't *that* long ago where one would start a render and wait many, many hours for it to finish...
00:49.25starseekerWell, the original motivating problem was/is to create a computer algebra system that produces answers that can be trusted
00:49.58yukonbobwell -- are you saying 80386s are not trustworthy? Maybe moreso than some pentiums ;)
00:49.58starseekerso that's where discussions of hardware come in,  because if your hardware can't be trusted it's game over before the software even begins...
00:50.35``Erikthus my argument for absolute minimal hw... :D wtf does ogl have to do with provable computation?
00:50.36starseekeryukonbob:  I'm not sure.  But proving properties about them and software written in their machine code would likely be more of a challenge than for some other platforms, which was ``Erik's point
00:50.54starseekerprovably correct visualization of a surface plot?
00:51.29starseekerSo, if we want "absolute minimal hw" but still want to solve interesting problems, where's the middle ground?
00:51.35starseekerthat was how all that started
00:51.44yukonbobstarseeker: well --- if you've got a good test harness, and keep primitives to a minimum, according to ``Erik you can bootstrap a Lisp environment in 7 instructions...
00:52.03starseekerHehe
00:52.10``Erikum, 7 primitive functions, not necessarily 7 instructions
00:52.15starseekerRight
00:52.27``Erikand you need more to do anything beyond a minimal symbol processor :D
00:52.38``ErikI'd hate to code up math routines in symbol land
00:52.39yukonbobright -- but that's still a small amount of code than writing a whole common lisp env in asm
00:53.04``Erikbe about as useful as a calculator in sed :D (and a similar construction, I'd imagine)
00:53.20``Erikand I aint' never said nothin' about common lisp...
00:53.32``Erikbe a fair amount of work to make a provable lisp1.5 :D
00:53.33starseekeryukonbob:  For something like Axiom, I'm assuming most of Common Lisp would be needed.  So the question becomes how to get there from nothing
00:53.44starseeker``Erik:  Indeed!
00:54.01starseekerIt was actually some guys on comp.lang.lisp that pointed me to Forth
00:55.07``Erikthat's the natural way a lithper works, yukonbob
00:55.17starseekerWhether it's a project that is possible or even interesting is certainly up for debate.  I suspect this all goes back to my phyiscs professors in undergrad, who stressed the point we couldn't trust Mathematica to give us the right answer
00:55.52``Erikrecursive fully computational macros, 'top up' primitive operations, build your DSL implementation bit at a time until the problem is trivial
00:56.14starseekerWhile of course they were correct (and the primary point of needing to develop one's own mind is independent of the trustworthiness of the CAS) I became fascinated by the question "what would it take to create a CAS that COULD be trusted to give the right answer?"
00:56.15yukonbob``Erik:  -- and so, with 7 primitives, audited for good code (which is _still_ only an implementation detail) and sound logic, you've got a system -- and it's got _nothing_ to do with whether it's running on an atari or a cray.
00:56.38``Erikwhat was the quote about solving every problem by adding another level of abstraction? :D
00:57.05``Erikit has to be proven to run on SOMETHING, dude... whether silicon or a forth vm
00:57.14starseekerCorrect
00:57.52``Erikoh, so the ALU abstracted to microcode abstracted to the ISA abstracted to C is too much? :D
00:58.06yukonbob"it" is the 7 (or however many) primitives... of course it has to run -- unless "imagination" qualifies as a type of computer too...
00:58.08``Erikflying electrons abstracted to gates abstracted to the alu?
00:58.36``Erikdude, it's abstractions all the way down!
00:58.40starseekerA stack of machine -> machine language -> Forth -> Lisp -> SPAD/Aldor/Qi is probably about the minimum needed to get the proper tradeoffs in complexity and functionality.
01:01.07starseekerThe idea of Forth would be that since it is optimized to need very few machine commands to go from nothing to Turing Complete, it would offer the minimum "proof burden" when porting from one platform to another.  That of course is only in theory, since a proper lisp compiler would still need to know a lot about the machine arch. to do anything serious, but it's a start
01:02.08starseekerOr if the machine happens to have a good ASM (like the IBM 704) you could skip the Forth and go straight to Lisp
01:02.43``Erikhum, with new developments in quantum understanding and microphysics going on, are gates even provable? O.o or just statistically ok and overengineered to compensate?
01:02.49``Erik:D
01:02.56starseeker``Erik:  A good point, actually
01:03.04starseeker``Erik:  You're quite correct
01:03.04yukonbob``Erik: ++
01:03.18starseeker``Erik:  The same holds true for our brains
01:03.24yukonbobthat's what we have ECC memory for...
01:03.31``Erikbrains are provably wrong, due
01:03.33``Erikdude
01:03.47starseeker``Erik:  Just most of them ;-)
01:03.49``Erikecc is another example of statistical over-engineering, not provability...
01:04.13yukonbobright -- the reason it's _needed_ is because of errors...
01:04.17``Erikmath types are weird
01:04.46starseekerWhat you can do is prove that the behavior is correct, assuming a given behavior of the hardware
01:04.54starseekerthis is if you fully understand your software
01:05.18``Erikyeah, but then you have turing-church theories, lambda calculus, ... it's all done
01:05.19yukonbobbut obviously not the hardware, or at least can't guarantee the hardware...
01:05.20starseekerIf you know the statistical behavior of your hardware, you can then estimate (with a LOT of work) the probability that a given calculation is incorrect
01:05.28``Erik:D
01:06.28starseekerSo if we ever understood fully how our own brains solved problems, we could also come up with a probability that a given human performed calculation was incorrect
01:09.11starseekerI think someone broke down the problems humans like to solve into four categories:  solvable, not specifically solvable but can prove a solution exists, provably not solvable, and problems where we can't prove one way or the other whether it can be solved or not
01:10.23starseekersorry guys
01:11.46CIA-28libirc: 03JeffM2501 * r354 10/trunk/libirc/examples/stupidBot/vc7.1/stupidBot.vcproj: include the URLManger
01:15.07louipcwowzers
01:15.16starseekerlouipc:  ?
01:15.21``Eriksorry, the only proofs I work with these days tend to be 10, 80, and 100 O:-)
01:15.28louipclots going on here eh?
01:15.39starseekerNo, just me going offtopic ;-)
01:16.09louipc``Erik: I worked with a 140 proof, man that was caustic
01:16.42yukonbobstarseeker: re: four categories -- didn't dick cheney go on about that wrt iraq :)
01:17.01starseekeryukonbob:  Argh, he might have
01:17.31yukonbobsimilar, not the same -- some goofy, confusing-ish rambling...
01:17.50``Erikheh
01:18.04``Erik151, dude :D
01:18.16starseekerPolitics is definitely a problem where we can't even make definite statements of whether it's solvable in theory or not ;-)
01:18.26yukonbob``Erik: thats your proof? :)
01:18.37yukonbobOddfellows Local 151
01:18.43``ErikI haven't worked with bacardi 151 in a bit
01:18.57``Erikbut it was fun :D light the shot on fire... etc
01:19.07``Erikbut that NEEDED a back on it
01:19.18louipchow fast does it burn?
01:19.29starseekerJeez - you must have a Teflon shot glass.
01:19.38``Erikum, I d'no, it didn't let it stay lit very long....
01:19.51``Erikdidn't wanna break the shotglass and didn't wanna lose all the fuel :D
01:19.56louipcah
01:19.59yukonbobthis makes me wish for some sambuca about now...
01:20.01louipcfuel! yeah
01:20.02``ErikI have a massively thick shotglass
01:20.20yukonbobsure you do, ``Erik
01:20.20louipcsambuca is too dang sweet
01:20.23``Erikin fact, it's begging for a little bushmills right now O.o
01:20.35``ErikI'll go weigh it :D
01:20.58yukonboblouipc: try Annisette
01:21.21louipcI'll try to remember that
01:21.30``Erikmy normal shooter is 65g, the one I like to use is 170g
01:21.57louipchaha YES
01:22.33``Erikor, wait, sorry I'm a stupid american, lemme go measure those in uh, ounces or something
01:24.03starseekerHumph - the opensparc download requires registration?
01:24.05yukonbobye
01:24.07yukonbobww
01:24.09yukonbobyes
01:24.12yukonbobfsck
01:24.15yukonbob;)
01:24.20starseekerlol
01:25.27``Eriksun has been slow to embrace 'open' in the way we think of it
01:25.33``Eriklook at the old java licenses
01:30.56yukonbob``Erik: use Tcl bytecode and we can integrate it w/ BRL-CAD ;)
01:33.39``Erikheh, does tcl even have bytecode?
01:34.16yukonbob``Erik: yup
01:39.04yukonboblouipc: also, Passione Nera
01:41.38``ErikI'm gonna start using 'courics' as the weight measurement for everything.
02:00.41louipcan acre is the area of a rectangle who's length is one furlong and who's width is one chain
02:39.52``Erikheh
02:40.06``Erikwhich happens to be a classic western farm plot
04:26.37*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
04:28.32brlcadstarseeker: BeOS was specifically designed as a "from scratch implementation" that was generally hailed as a major [technical] success at the time albeit a failure commercially (CEO was an idiot)
04:32.16brlcadand I learned a new word, thanks :)  .. that hasn't happened unintentionally in a really long time :)
06:26.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (33 files in 33 dirs): make the AdditionalIncludeDirectories paths match for Debug and Release
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08:39.26*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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12:57.31starseekerbrlcad:  I guess that's why the Haiku OS guys have been stubbornly plodding along.  It does look interesting.
13:13.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Changing the build order to force tclsh to build sooner. Tclsh is used early in the build to create the install tree.
13:30.35DEFCON_C joke :D - http://www.ianai.net/jokes/WillNotThrow.gif
14:56.17*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
17:42.49brlcadheh
17:45.14brlcadstarseeker: yeah, I was really big on BeOS for years .. Haiku doesn't have the impressive foundation that Be had, but they've kept the same basic philosophy and have made a ton of great progress on reviving the effort
17:45.43brlcadand as open source, it's at least bound to "not fail" so long as someone's still working on it ;)
17:46.14brlcadthey're really close to a first 1.0 release, so it'll likely be slashdotted and activity may really kick-start after then
17:59.39CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
17:59.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: annotate the opengl display manager problems where the display doesn't
17:59.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: automatically update any longer if the context is invalidated; mention that the
17:59.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: libfb ogl interface seems horribly broken at the moment as it just crashes
17:59.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: (consistently, at least on Mac OS X); and mention that the open dialog problems
17:59.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: seem to be Mac OS X specific too as they worked under Linux (7.10.1 Mac also
17:59.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: seemed to work fine, so something since then).
18:00.48brlcad``Erik: what do you mean by fix the hacks -- add more of them, or do something about them so they're not hacks?
18:01.48brlcadI worked on what to do about that a while ago and didn't see any really easy fix for the problem given the way the data is being marshalled into and out of ClientData objects
18:02.50``Erikadd them until they get fixed?
18:03.02``Erikmake 'em easily greppable, anyways
18:03.30brlcadokay, just checking what 'fix' meant -- works for me
18:03.46``Erikgiven that ClientData is a point type, defining the field as size_t MIGHT be workable, but that field is sometimes used as an int and sometimes as a pointer, ...
18:05.12``Erikpointer, even
18:05.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Initial check-in. This script will be called by Visual Studio to build the install tree.
18:06.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Calling installTree.tcl instead of treeInit.sh.
18:10.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: include the new scripts in the source dist
18:30.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/librt/ (const.c hist.c plane.c polylib.c polyno.h snoise.c): once again, try to delete these zombie files that have again mysteriously shown up after an update
19:02.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/tclsh.vcproj: Remove command to copy clock.tcl.
19:09.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: No longer need to define BRLCAD_DATA and BRLCAD_ROOT.
19:10.20CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Archer now uses bwish.
19:11.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Define WEB_BROWSER to point to IEXPLORE.EXE.
19:12.08prasad_boo
19:14.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: brlcadDataPath can now be set the same on Windows as it is on Unix.
19:16.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/mged/ (openw.tcl mged.tcl): Normalize the path when setting mged_default(html_dir).
19:27.53*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548743C3.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:59.02brlcadyo prasad_
20:03.12prasad_yo yo
20:10.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copying many more files to the install tree.
20:19.27*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-83-251.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:53.59CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/tclIndex: Put things back.
21:36.26``ErikO.O holy crap, it worked
21:38.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: html is no longer under doc on Windows.
21:39.53brlcada dirt worked?
21:43.00``Erikheh, yeah
21:43.05``Erikthe gtk snake thingy
21:43.39``Erikand, uh, ain't nothin' worth worrying about for public consumption other than perhaps terminology, I think
21:45.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/tclIndex: Looks like things accidently got wacked.
21:53.14``Erikheh, I'd forgotten about 'diva'
21:55.43``Erikhum, forgot some stuff last night, wonder if I stopped in the middle of it or something
21:56.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libcommon/unpack.c librender/plane.c librender/spall.c): update the tie_init() calls with the new parm
21:59.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/incrTcl/itk/pkgIndex.tcl.in: there is no ITK_VERSION, use ITCL_VERSION
22:06.39prasad_http://www.kloonigames.com/blog/
22:16.52Z80-BoyHow do I do a regular tetrahedron?
22:17.00Z80-BoyWith an arbn, n=4?
22:23.04brlcadyou could do that, but better would be to create an arb4
22:23.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/INSTALL: sync options with configure: add dtrace, remove automatic
22:23.56brlcad(subtle, but "arbn" are not the same as "arb#" objects)
22:30.10``Erikwoops, that sounded like a steam whistle, time to go hom
22:58.42minutehttp://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=5
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071130

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071130

00:12.39*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
00:41.29brlcadminute: woo hoo!
00:41.33brlcadthat's awesome
00:41.58brlcadI gather the template isn't live yet
00:42.15brlcadeither way, sounds like great progress!
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08:09.14weebeeHi, using XChat I finally managed to log on...
08:09.33weebeeDo i need to register my nick names?
08:20.25yukonbobweebee: if you're not using a registered nick, I think you can't send txt in private chats.
08:22.27weebeeok. I assume registering is as simple as sending a message to the nick server? : ''msg nickserv register <passwd>"'
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08:24.49weebee(few days ago I logged in as Wim, this does not work anymore; I must be very annoying to see my attempts to log on)
08:59.28*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
10:03.22weebeetest
10:12.19Axman6'lo all
10:14.41Axman6i'm getting weird compile errors: In file included from if_wgl.c:63:
10:14.41Axman6/usr/include/tk.h:72:3: error: #error Tk 8.4 must be compiled with tcl.h from Tcl 8.4
10:15.29Axman6i'm on OS X 10.5, and my configure command loks like this: ./configure --with-x11=/usr/X11 --enable-optimized --enable-64bit-build LDFLAGS="-L/usr/X11/lib" CPPFLAGS="-I/usr/X11/include" CFLAGS="-m64 -mtune=nocona -arch x86_64 -lGL -lX11 -dylib_file /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib:/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib"
10:15.53Axman6that's what was required to get it to configure ok, but i guess not enough to build :\
10:18.24Axman6might try without the 64-bit stuff first actually
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15:22.36brlcadAxman6: using system tcl and tk on mac os x presently configures correctly, but (obviously) doesn't compile correctly -- have to let it build brl-cad's
15:23.07brlcadyou can use the --enable-all flag and it should work
15:23.41Axman6yeah i cleaned up my configure flags a lot, found a leopard bug apparently. circular referencing with a few libs
15:24.19brlcadhm, what's -dylib_file?
15:25.00brlcadtells it to only allow dylib linkage or something?
15:25.02Axman6oh also, make distclean deletes the configure script. that should probably changed i think
15:26.06Axman6it was something that was suggested on apple's dev site to get projects that won't compile in leopard any more.
15:28.24brlcadah, that entire libGL bit that follows is related to it, used to redirect from one dylib to another
15:28.40brlcadthough you're redirecting to the exact same file.. :)
15:28.46brlcadshouldn't need that at all
15:29.49brlcador -lGL or -lX11  .. if you have to manually add them, something else is wrong
15:33.43Z80-Boybrlcad: why is the redrawing of the wireframe so slow?
15:34.05Z80-Boybrlcad: I am modelling a terminal block (terminal strip) and it's starting to be very slow
15:39.54Axman6brlcad: well --enable-all doesn't give me OpenGL support sadly
15:41.30Axman6how do i specify where my OpenGL libraries are?
15:46.39Axman6i've tried using "./configure --enable-all --with-ogl=/usr/X11" because all the required libs and headers appear to be in there, but no dice
15:58.36brlcadZ80-Boy: really hard to say without knowing a lot more about what's going on, how many segments, what display types, machine details, etc
15:59.46brlcadAxman6: OpenGL support doesn't provide what you think it provides in BRL-CAD -- the X11 interface is fully equivalent
16:00.56Axman6yeah i didn't think it would do things like give me interactive models in real time or anything... but this is a brand new MacBook Pro, and it has an amazing gpu, so it could help ;)
16:01.42brlcadthat said, if you can post up your config.log, I can take a look at why it's failing to detect
16:01.46Axman6what does it actually do by the way?
16:01.57Axman6ok, cheers
16:02.34brlcadbrl-cad has a concept of framebuffers and display managers, some of them being ogl, wgl, x11, and a few others
16:03.04brlcadthey're all pretty much functionally equivalent for the most part, it just defines the protocol that it's speaking
16:03.15brlcadyou will get interactive models in real-time with any/all of them
16:03.30brlcadyou just won't get shaded displays with any of them outside of ray-tracing the model
16:04.35brlcadso turning on the ogl interface on your macbook basically just tells it to make ogl_() calls instead of the equivalent (but faster) direct X11 calls for drawing a wireframe representation
16:05.18Axman6ok, great. thanks for clearing that up for me
16:05.20brlcaddid you try the binary installer for Mac, that isn't far off feature-wise from the latest sources
16:05.25brlcadnp
16:06.02brlcadwhere "latest sources" means latest cvs sources, it's equivalent to the 7.10.4 source tarball
16:10.33Axman6brlcad: could i maybe email you the config.log? seems to be too big for most paste sites
16:12.38Axman6i might have found it anyway:
16:12.51Axman6configure:42679: checking for OpenGL functionality
16:12.52Axman6configure:42716: gcc -o conftest   -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -g -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11/include -L/usr/local/lib -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -fexceptions -Wl,-search_paths_first -Wnewline-eof -g  conftest.c  >&5
16:13.21Axman6would not having a -L/usr/X11/lib have anything to do with it?
16:17.33brlcadyeah, possibly
16:17.51brlcadcould set the LDFLAGS for it
16:18.09brlcadbut seriously, it's not going to get you *anything* over the X11 interface that it apparently did detect :)
16:18.22Axman6yeah, i'm not using it
16:18.43brlcadI'll have to get my hands on 10.5 to probably patch that
16:18.59brlcadbut I suspect the X11 detection macros aren't quite right yet on 10.5
16:19.17brlcadsince apple moved from X11R6 to X11
16:21.00Axman6yeah
16:21.31Axman6feels like a step backwrds really. i hope they relese some updates to it soonish
16:22.20Axman6+1*
16:22.26Axman6+a* even
16:22.52Axman6so are you the main dev brlcad?
16:25.18Axman6bleh, this thing really heats up when compiling things
16:36.14Axman6bleh, yeah BRL-CAD failed compilation
16:40.52Axman6http://pastie.caboo.se/123765
16:40.59brlcadAxman6: yeah, main dev
16:41.12Axman6well well done :)
16:41.24brlcadnot when the build fails :)
16:41.44brlcadooh, i've seen that error
16:41.48Axman6i haven't played with BRL-CAD for a few years, but i remember it being lots of fun really
16:42.14brlcadit's 10.5 specific, a problem in CoreFoundation.. hmm, now to remember what the fix was..
16:42.15Axman6none of the problems i've been having seem to be your fault, so i'm not blaming you ;)
16:45.36brlcadis there actually a /usr/X11/lib/libPng.dylib ?
16:46.49Axman6there's a /usr/X11/lib/libpng.dylib, case shouldn't count right?
16:47.37brlcadright
16:50.03brlcadso my vague recollection of this problem is that Tcl links against CoreFoundation which includes the ApplicationServices framwork, which embeds an ImageIO framework .. which uses a libPng library that it doesn't rpath correctly
16:52.50brlcadand the problem being then that an app that is already linked against libpng that uses Tcl (which btclsh app being run in this case is like that), then runs into a dynamic loader problem
16:53.33brlcadhmm hmm hmm..
16:53.58brlcadcan you do a locate libPng ?
16:54.14brlcadif that returns nothing, then "locate libpng"
16:54.34Axman6can i paste 5 lines?
16:54.38brlcadgo for it
16:54.47brlcadusually over 5 is the pain threshold ;)
16:55.25Axman6/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
16:55.28Axman6/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
16:55.32Axman6/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
16:55.52Axman6um, right, yeah, hang on
16:55.59Axman6/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
16:56.02Axman6/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
16:56.05Axman6/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
16:56.56*** mode/#brlcad [+o minute] by ChanServ
16:57.02Axman6bah, the fact that it's trying to use a /command doesn't anoy me, it's that only two of the 5 lines are being interpreted as commands :(
16:58.35Axman6actually, that's ok. it was picking stuff up from /Previous\ Systems/... which isn't relevent anyway
17:03.02Axman6anyway, don't suppose you've found a fix yet have you?
17:03.28Axman6i'm about to go to sleep, so if you do, just hilight me and i'll get it in the morning
17:04.45curious'due to pressure from huge russian fan base , we were forced to change all filenames to unicode and use cyrylic for headers'
17:05.52brlcadokay, so there's what it needs
17:06.04brlcadbut it's pulling the one in /usr/X11/lib due to ordering decls
17:06.17brlcadthat's actually a case where the -dylib_file might come in handy
17:07.32brlcadAxman6: yeah, I think there are a couple things that can be tried -- it's pulling the one in /usr/X11/lib due to ordering decls instead of the embedded one
17:08.29Axman6would... renaming /usr/X11 one help maybe? just temporarily
17:10.21Axman6nope
17:12.10Axman6i'm guessing it should be linking against /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib right?
17:22.06Axman6ok, i'm going to sleep. good night, and thanks for the help. if you think of anything, hilight me and i'll see it in the morning :)
17:24.10brlcadokay, i'll see if I can craft up a specific line to try
17:24.20brlcadmultitasking a bit too heavy at the moment to keep up :)
18:09.35``Erikoh ffs, wtff
18:18.35*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
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22:12.50*** part/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
22:43.12CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/intaval/regtab.cpp:
22:43.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: if there's a region entry missing from the material file, just fake an entry for
22:43.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: it instead of aborting. this lets processing continue for the rest of the
22:43.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: regions that follow at least, and placeholds the unknown region as such.
23:32.29*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.96.127)
23:32.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: mged tab-completion doesn't work if the object names have spaces
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071201

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071201

06:00.57*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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10:14.27*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
10:15.48Axman6hey brlcad, i was wondering if you'd found a fix for my circular dependancy problem?
10:22.14Axman6i'll be back, testing things and need to reboot
10:23.10Z80-BoyI'll be back... --Arnold Schwarzenegger
10:26.41Axman6heh :)
11:04.44*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
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14:24.36Z80-Boybrlcad: does brlcad also calculate polarization, Brewster angle etc.?
15:19.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/libtcl/libtcl.vcproj: Added a call to build the missing include/conf files.
17:02.07*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-128.dclient.hispeed.ch)
17:02.50Axman6brlcad: you around?
18:27.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: No longer need to create the missing include/conf files. Added code to create tclIndex files. Added the shareDir variable to simplify things a bit.
18:30.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Mods for getting the installTree script to create tclIndex files.
18:37.01brlcadAxman6: yeah, sorry .. was busy coding ;)
18:37.10Axman6heh :)
18:37.15Axman6so i see
18:37.35brlcadthat's bob, different dev :)
18:37.40brlcadnot committed my stuff yet
18:37.42Axman6i'm lucky i'm still awake at 5:30AM then i guess :P
18:37.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ami.tcl: Created the make_tclIndex proc.
18:37.49brlcadwow
18:37.55Axman6ah right, didn't check the dev
18:38.15Axman6yeah, woke up at 3:30 yesterday, so hard to sleep
18:38.25Axman6the sun's already up -_-
18:38.33brlcad:)
18:39.12brlcadso one thing to try, just to see if it helps with the problem is to move the libpng out of the way that is in /usr/X11/lib
18:39.35brlcadif that works, then it can be put back and can work on coercing the search path ordering
18:39.51Axman6YEAH OK
18:40.15Axman6whoops
18:43.23Axman6http://pastie.textmate.org/124117
18:44.35brlcadhmm
18:46.58brlcadhere's an idea, might be enough to just avoid the whole problem by disabling tcl's core foundation interface
18:47.13brlcadtry adding --disable-corefoundation to configure
18:47.50brlcadpastebin the entire configure output if it'll fit
18:47.50Axman6ok
18:54.49Axman6http://pastie.textmate.org/124120
18:54.59Axman6hopefully
18:55.25Axman6yeah that got it all
19:00.57brlcadheh
19:01.06Axman6hmm, running make 0j2 really does make a difference
19:01.18Axman6-j2*
19:01.18brlcadfwiw, --with-all doesn't do anything
19:01.33Axman6hmm, maybe that was something else
19:01.58Axman6it was suggsted to me somewhere. anyway
19:02.02brlcadthere is a --enable-all option
19:02.15Axman6probably bzflag heh
19:02.18brlcadbut your results are fine, dont' really need it
19:02.38brlcadbz doesn't have a --with-all either ;)
19:03.26brlcadour configure script actually is a decent benchmark of overall I/O performance :)
19:03.27Axman6bzflag the game?
19:03.30brlcadyeah
19:03.40Axman6hmm, wonder what it was then...
19:03.45Axman6oh well, not important ;
19:04.05Axman6haha, awesome
19:04.28Axman6brl-cad and bzflag were the two things i was trying to get compiled yesterday :P
19:04.35brlcadcad and bz are the two I spend most of my time on :)
19:05.36brlcadas witnessed by the ohloh metrics .. :)
19:05.56Axman6well while i'm at it, when i compiled bzflag, it would die after about a minute. but i believe thT's an SDL problem
19:06.02brlcadso have you tried the build with the --disable-corefoundation flag?
19:06.16Axman6yeah, it's building now
19:06.18brlcadhow'd you build sdl?
19:06.27Axman6using macports
19:06.32brlcadwhat version?
19:06.41Axman61.2.12? that sound right?
19:06.45brlcadyeah
19:06.50brlcadthat's nfg :)
19:06.54Axman6apparently 1.2.11 works fine
19:06.56brlcadneeds to be .11
19:07.01Axman6heh, yeah
19:07.08brlcador you have to update the SDLmain.m in BZ
19:07.13brlcadto the new one for .12
19:09.00Axman6don't happen to know what needs changing off the top of your head do you?
19:10.46Axman6:P
19:10.58Axman6i should check it out of svn and build it
19:11.31brlcadwe just posted a new release
19:11.42brlcadsvn head is the next (incompatible) dev version
19:11.44Axman6.10 one?
19:11.48brlcadyeah
19:11.50brlcadthat's the latest
19:11.59Axman6yeah that didn't build for me
19:12.09Axman6well it did, but had the sdl problem
19:12.42brlcadyeah, easiest solution is to just install the .11 SDL framework into /Library/Frameworks and run xcodebuild
19:14.25brlcadotherwise, you have to replace the SDLmain files in src/platform/MacOS (it's usually bundled in a dev download from SDL folks)
19:14.58Axman6righto
19:15.14Axman6well brl-cad first i think, bzflag later ;)
19:15.27Axman6i'll probably find brl-cad more fun anyway
19:16.15Axman6downloaded someone's unofficial intel build of bz... died instantly every time :(
19:17.24Axman6"-DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE"  what's that do exactly?
19:18.17Axman6well really, what do the -D flags to gcc do?
19:21.27Axman6this gets the fans giong quite effectively :|
19:26.49brlcad-D flags set preprocessor defines
19:29.39Axman6bleh, i never got that far into my C++ book ;)
19:29.50brlcadwhich are generally symbols that can modify compilation behavior, turn things on/off but are completely driven by the code
19:30.29Axman6bleh, same error again
19:30.30brlcad-DPNG_NO_MMX_CODE is as if you added "#define PNG_NO_MMX_CODE 1" to the top of every file being compiled
19:31.50brlcadexact same error?
19:32.02Axman6yeah
19:32.08Axman6afaict
19:33.26Axman6http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6xkfj3p&s=1 <-- eases compilation pain
19:34.17brlcadyour cat? :)
19:34.28brlcador paris' top falling off
19:35.37Axman6heh, yeah my cat
19:37.28Z80-Boybrlcad: first piece of optic which was prototyped using BRL-CAD
19:37.59brlcadfor what it's worth, it'd be willing to interactively debug this problem over ssh if you're willing to set up a temp account -- otherwise, next thing is to edit the top-level configure.ac file and comment out the corefoundation block
19:38.46brlcadZ80-Boy: to answer your question, there's no polarization in liboptical -- maybe in libmultispectral, but I don't believe so
19:38.47Z80-Boybrlcad: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/prismascope.g render in rear view
19:39.15Z80-Boybrlcad: it's a telescope which magnifies 4 times and consists only from 4 prisms, no curved optical interfaces ;-)
19:40.33Axman6brlcad: yeah i would let you ssh in, but nat would make it a problem. which is a pitty, because leopard comes with a nice temp account feature. erases all files when you log out
19:41.23brlcadnat isn't forwarding port 22?
19:41.33Axman6well not to this machine
19:41.48brlcadcould run ssh manually on another port being forwarded for single session
19:41.51Axman6to the G5
19:42.58brlcadif you want to keep plugging away at it, edit configure.ac and look for the block that starts with this line:
19:43.01brlcadAC_MSG_CHECKING([whether -framework CoreFoundation is available])
19:43.04Z80-Boybrlcad: ehm forgot the name of the toplevel to render... "scene"
19:43.07Axman6i'll try the commenting out of core foundation stuff first.
19:43.17brlcadand comment it all out (prefix each line with #)
19:43.33brlcadZ80-Boy: already seen it :)
19:44.07brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/zoom.png
19:44.45Z80-Boybrlcad: you know how it works?
19:44.46Axman6Z80-Boy: how's that work?
19:44.53Axman6heh
19:45.51Z80-BoyAxman6: I just phoned God and asked him if he could make prism magnify from now
19:46.04Z80-Boybecause prisms are easier to make than lenses
19:46.12Axman6ah right, yeah he's good like that sometimes
19:46.29louipc-botespecially big lenses eh?
19:46.46Z80-BoyAxman6: if you draw the prism picture from the schoolbook you can see the beam inside the prism is squished
19:47.00Z80-Boyso if you cut the prism in half into a smaller prism the squished beam comes out
19:47.13Z80-Boyand there is some obscure theorem meaning that if you squish the beam it magnifies
19:47.23Axman6heh
19:47.26Z80-BoyIt also does a spectra decomposition so you need to use a pair to cancel that out
19:47.43Z80-Boyand another pair of prisms to do the magnification in the other dimension because the picture is 2D
19:47.50Z80-Boyso with 4 prisms you can have a telescope
19:47.54louipc-boto.O
19:47.57Axman6i'll have to check your file when i get brl-cad compiled ;
19:48.09Z80-BoyNo need for complicated grinding of lenses - just rub two pieces of glass against each other with some grit
19:48.20Z80-Boyor make like aquarium from window pane float glass ;-)
19:48.28brlcadZ80-Boy: yes, I know how prisms work.. and I saw how you oriented them in the model -- pretty creative really
19:49.03Z80-Boybrlcad: I actually saw the pair as an anamorphotic pair to fix fabry perror laser output beam shape
19:49.11Z80-Boyperrot
19:49.27louipc-botactually don't the most powerful telescopes use curved mirrors?
19:49.35Z80-Boyyes
19:49.49Z80-Boybut you need exact parabolic shape
19:49.53Axman6cassigrain telescopes
19:49.56Z80-Boythat's more complicated than an exact flat shape
19:50.04louipc-botyeah
19:50.07Axman6as demonstrated by the hubble
19:50.17Z80-Boybut if you tilt my model the picture gets distorted
19:50.19Axman6which they screwed up originally
19:50.24Z80-Boyit seems to work only for narrow field of view
19:50.29Z80-BoyBut for laser beams it's great
19:50.36louipc-bot:D
19:50.48Z80-Boyor for burning stuff with the sun...
19:50.53Z80-Boythat's also narrow field of view
19:50.58Z80-Boybut a fresnel lens is lighter
19:51.15brlcadyou can create rather exact parabolic shapes using the epa if you wanted to, but have fun grinding it ;)
19:51.16Z80-BoyIt just demonstrates the people in the middle ages were stupid, they could make themselves crude telescopes from grinded gems
19:51.52Z80-Boythey didn't need a curved surface for that
19:53.31Z80-BoyOr they could stick 4 prisms in front of the hubble to double the input aperture for free
19:53.59Z80-Boyjust get some window panes into the sky and then fill with water
19:54.31Axman6but that would severly reduce the amount of light getting through to the sensors
19:54.32Z80-Boythis way they could build an integralactic megagigatelescope to concentrate significant amount of solar power and then they could zap whole planets in the sky
19:54.33brlcadhttp://bzflag.bz/~sean/tmp/prisms.png
19:55.02Z80-BoyAxman6: they can coat with anti reflex
19:55.11Axman6hdh
19:55.15Axman6heh*
19:55.59Axman6well water would be very bad. the reason they have the hubble... in space.. is because water absorbs infrared light
19:56.16Z80-Boyaha
19:56.28Axman6brlcad: so you do your dev work on a mac?
19:56.38brlcadmost of the time
19:56.43brlcaddepends what I"m doing
19:57.17Axman6argh! same error again!
19:57.21brlcadit's one of the easiest platforms for general work, less fuss, great set of dev tools (profiler, memory tests, etc)
19:57.48brlcadAxman6: did you clean out the previous build?
19:57.52Axman6yeah
19:57.59brlcadhuh
19:58.10Axman6but you can neverr be sure, so i'll trash it and start again
19:58.10brlcadotool -L src/bwish/.libs/btclsh
19:58.49brlcadand otool -L src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl.dylib
19:59.15brlcadneeded both the section commented out and the --disable-corefoundation flag
19:59.32Z80-Boybrlcad: On Mac, not only the background should be white, but the rpps should also have rounded corners!
19:59.53Axman6http://pastie.textmate.org/124129
20:00.22Axman6and otool: can't open file: src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl.dylib (No such file or directory)
20:01.06brlcadooh, Carbon
20:02.09Axman6nawww, cat's asleep and twitching on me
20:04.14Axman6anyway. is carbon necessary for this?
20:04.48brlcadno, it's not
20:05.16brlcadlooking for the call to leave out
20:05.36Axman6'dnl check whether the Carbon framework is available (used for X11 focus)' block?
20:06.57brlcadyeah, the next block
20:07.20brlcadand then it should fail somewhere in the code where it's using that (which is what I'm hunting for)
20:08.16Axman6AC_CHECK_HEADERS( \ Carbon/Carbon.h \
20:08.37Axman6comment that out? (the carbon bit)
20:08.41brlcadyeah
20:08.46brlcadthat was it
20:08.57brlcadthat triggers the code in libdm
20:09.18brlcadyou'll remove that line, can't just prefix it
20:09.31Axman6yeah, realised that
20:10.16Axman6wow, this bindi irwin show is odd
20:14.59*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=bch@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
20:15.59yukonbobhello, cadheads
20:16.12Axman6'lo again
20:21.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (lgt/error.c lgt/prnt.c libfb/fb_log.c): mass simplification since we can assume stdarg is available, it's c89. remove the alternatives.
20:22.02Axman6urgh, same error :|
20:22.56brlcadotool shows what now?
20:23.31brlcadbecause we have to get rid of all of them before it goes away
20:24.00brlcadto btclsh and libtcl -- that last edit should have removed from btclsh, but there might still be one on libtcl
20:24.01Axman6exact same thing
20:24.38Axman6i'll try trashing it, and going again from there
20:25.02brlcadcd src/bwish && make noprod && make LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool"
20:25.15brlcadpastebin the output of that please
20:25.40Axman6make: *** No rule to make target `noprod'.  Stop.
20:26.02Axman6typo?
20:26.09brlcader, are you building out of tree or something?
20:26.25Axman6wait, probably need to configure first ;)
20:26.40brlcadyou just built, no?
20:26.56brlcadyou should only need to configure again if you did a distclean
20:27.10brlcador if you manually deleted the Makefile
20:27.16Axman6yeah, but i trashed it. haven't empried trash though
20:28.16Axman6http://pastie.textmate.org/124134
20:29.13brlcadtwo problems there
20:29.28brlcadit shouldn't have all those -framework CoreFoundation
20:29.38brlcadOOOooh.. sorry
20:29.46brlcadyou have to run ./autogen.sh after editing configure.ac
20:30.06brlcadyou're running an out-of-date configure
20:31.51Axman6ahh
20:33.16Axman6'sudo ln -s /opt/local/bin/glibtoolize /opt/local/bin/libtoolize' um, ok, don't see how that's good advice
20:33.29Axman6oh wait, missed the g
20:36.01Axman6ok, compiling
20:48.06Axman6well, it's been going a good long time, looking food :)
20:49.59Axman6why does brl-cad install in /usr btw? why not /usr/local?
20:52.18Axman6argh! same error!
20:52.38Axman6but... on a different part of the colpile
20:53.12Axman6make[2]: *** [pkgIndex.tcl] Trace/BPT trap
20:53.39Axman6which i don't think was the same place
20:57.05Axman6wait, not the same error
20:57.21Axman6oh, no it is :(
21:03.31Axman6brlcad: anything i should show you?
21:07.32Axman6heh :)
21:07.37Axman6i should get some breakfast
21:07.47brlcadAxman6: still focusing on the link line for btclsh and the otool libs
21:08.51Axman6http://pastie.textmate.org/124147
21:08.59brlcadif it still lists CoreFoundation during cd src/bwish && make noprod && make LIBTOOL="sh ../../libtool"
21:09.05Axman6no error there, the link one
21:09.26brlcadokay, that's better
21:09.36brlcadotool -L .libs/btclsh
21:10.26Axman6http://pastie.textmate.org/124148
21:11.04brlcadmuch better
21:11.23brlcadif you run ./btclsh I presume it gives the dyld error?
21:12.08Axman6so is it yep
21:12.23Axman6yep even
21:12.43Axman6i was going to say so is it the dyld: Symbol not found: __cg_png_create_info_struct
21:12.50Axman6bit that needs fixing?
21:14.15brlcadyeah, cd ../.. && otool -L src/other/tcl/unix/libtcl8.5.dylib
21:14.56Axman6three lines, want them here?
21:15.02brlcadsure
21:15.25Axman6/usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.dylib (compatibility version 8.5.0, current version 8.5.0)
21:15.29Axman6/usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0)
21:15.31Axman6/usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 111.0.0)
21:15.53brlcadthat's it?
21:16.11Axman6yeah :\
21:16.14brlcadwell damnits
21:16.57Axman6indeed, it's not making much sense now
21:18.09brlcadcan you run: src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh ?
21:18.51Axman6no
21:19.00Axman6dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/brlcad/lib/libtcl8.5.dylib Referenced from: /Users/Axman/compiled-projects/brlcad-7.10.2/src/other/tcl/unix/tclsh Reason: image not found
21:19.01brlcadsame cg error?
21:19.03Axman6Trace/BPT trap
21:19.11brlcadah
21:19.18brlcadcd src/other && make install
21:20.53Axman6ok i can run tclsh now
21:24.43brlcadwell that's good ..
21:25.07brlcadcould change the script to use tclsh instead, but btclsh is not really much different ..
21:25.09Axman6same compile error though
21:25.23brlcadright, that compile error is it actually trying to run btclsh
21:25.41Axman6edit the makefile?
21:26.37brlcadno
21:26.40brlcadat least not yet..
21:29.17Axman6s/$(top_builddir)\/src\/bwish\/btclsh/tclsh ?
21:29.30Axman6(textmate style though)
21:30.04brlcadsure, you can try that -- have to edit all the Makefiles in src/tclscripts
21:30.23Axman6yeah, textmate makes that easy
21:30.31brlcadand have to edit ami.tcl to have a "package require Itcl" in it
21:31.20brlcadbut if btclsh won't run, then mged won't either very likely as they have nearly the same dependencies
21:32.22Axman6well, passed the usual error stage
21:34.38brlcadalas all of this is just attempting to work around the problem instead of fixing/diagnosing the actual problem in the ImageIO framework
21:35.07Axman6Elapsed compilation time:
21:35.07Axman616 hours, 3 minutes, 33 seconds
21:35.08Axman6haha
21:35.26brlcad:)
21:35.42Axman6is there a make check or make install option?
21:35.48Axman6uh, make test
21:37.03Axman6yeah, mged dies
21:37.19brlcadrun make install
21:37.34brlcadmaybe different dyld behavior after installed
21:37.43brlcadsince we do at least embed the right rpaths for what we use
21:37.51Axman6yeah
21:39.02Axman6well, at least this is all working towards possible leopard compatability
21:40.00Axman6hey does launchd handling X11 launching affect you at all with brlcad?
21:40.24Axman6and installed now. run make test?
21:41.10brlcadno, run "benchmark" in some directory where it's okay to output a lot of files
21:41.34brlcador "/usr/brlcad/bin/benchmark" if you haven't added /usr/brlcad/bin to your path
21:42.38brlcadit'll take about 10 minutes and evaluate your system's performance
21:42.46Axman6seems to be working well
21:43.10brlcadthat's good, part to be expected since it's not gui-driven
21:43.23brlcadnext would be to run mged -c
21:47.37Axman6do you use threading a lot for brl-cad?
21:47.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (35 files in 10 dirs): more flawfinder level 4 quellage, mostly str*() buffer boundary limits.
21:49.10Axman6Total testing time elapsed: 6 minutes, 30 seconds
21:49.51brlcadthe ray-tracer is extensively multithreaded and designed for parallel computation
21:50.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ (fftc.c ifftc.c): don't use bu_exit() so we can still avoid the libbu dependency
21:50.00Axman6excellent
21:50.09brlcadwill use however many cpus you have available by default
21:51.04Axman6well, mged -c seems to run ok...
21:52.26Axman6anything i can do to test it a bit more?
21:52.48brlcadwhen mged runs, run the "gui" command
21:54.08Axman6X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes) \  Major opcode of failed request:  70 (X_PolyFillRectangle) \ Serial number of failed request:  1738 \ Current serial number in output stream:  1782
21:54.39brlcadis X11 running?
21:57.01Axman6it is, though that doesn't matter in leopard. launchd launches it on demand
21:57.21brlcadI know, just checking
21:58.10brlcadthat's actually pretty stumping now
21:58.24Axman6woah, running without -c gives a pretty funky error
21:58.32brlcadhttp://www.nabble.com/X11-trouble-on-OSX-10.5-t4783777.html
21:58.39brlcadthat's prety much the same problem
21:59.38Axman6The process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality safely. You MUST exec().
21:59.41Axman6Break on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
22:00.01Axman6about 30 times
22:01.39brlcadthat one i've heard about
22:01.46brlcadadd the -f option to mged
22:02.13brlcadlooks like Tcl still ended up using corefoundation even though you added --disable-corefoundation
22:02.18Axman6same X error as before
22:02.41brlcadwell, so good news and bad news :)
22:03.04brlcadyou do have mged at your disposal but only in console mode
22:03.18Axman6heh, dang
22:03.37brlcadwhich is fully functional, other than not showing you the gui
22:04.06Axman6yeah
22:04.27Axman6yeah i often found it easier to use the cli for a lot of things than to use the gui
22:05.07Axman6but it's been a long time, and i don't remember anything about how to use brl-cad :\
22:07.59brlcadthe tutorials on the website do work for console mode too, just have to use the mged quick reference to know/call the command(s) that relate to gui actions
22:08.23brlcad2/3rds the tutorials are on the command console anyways
22:08.43Axman6yeah
22:08.56brlcadI'm not sure there's much more I can do without getting my hands on 10.5 so I can interactively debug the X calls
22:09.18Axman6i could work on getting you ssh access to this machine if you like
22:11.10brlcadthat'll help get the default compile working, but the X issue might still persist -- I'll give it a try, though
22:12.47Axman6ok. would tomorrow be better for you? give you a break, and time to think maybe. i'll be going out kind of soon
22:15.33Axman6actually, that might give you a good chance to work on it. i could log the guess account in, or create a temporary one (guest might not have ssh access). and i'll add a .bash_profile that's the same as mine so you have the same paths. might even e able to get you vnc access so you can see if the gui's working properly
22:20.25brlcadI can tunnel X over ssh to one of my systems to at least make sure that works
22:20.51Axman6oh yeah, heh
22:20.54brlcadbut yeah, tomorrow would be better
22:21.58Axman6well how about i set up an account for you now, and you just try ssh'ing i, and forwarding X. get those hopefully easy problems out of the way
22:22.13brlcadsure
22:22.39Axman6alright. any particular account name? :P
22:23.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librtserver/ (rtserver.c rtserverTest.c): more finder quelling
22:23.27PrezKennedyVista infuriates me!! argh
22:23.33PrezKennedyits so bad id almost try a mac
22:23.39PrezKennedy:)
22:23.40brlcadAxman6: "sean" ? :)
22:24.07brlcadPrezKennedy: you should
22:24.14Axman6and password? i'll assume PrezKennedy is on windows and doesn't have ssh, so it'll be pretty safe :P
22:24.41brlcadAxman6: you can pm me whatever you like
22:25.00brlcadthis channel is fully logged, i'm sure others could :)
22:25.00Axman6PrezKennedy: heh, well i'm an op in #macosx, so i'd definitely say you should. ;)
22:25.41Axman6good man
22:37.20*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au)
22:38.46Axman6ok, want to give ssh a go brlcad?
22:50.20Axman6ok, seems to be working now rom here
22:50.31Axman6from*
22:52.03brlcadready
22:52.56Axman6tried logging in?
22:53.39Axman6oh and i guess i should copy over brlcad from my account ;)
22:53.54brlcaddon't bother, I'll get a fresh copy so I can check in changes
22:54.07brlcadi'm in
22:55.11Axman6heh, i'd prefer you didn't, my net's slow, and has a download limit :(
22:55.18brlcaddownloading sources now -- I'll give the compile a go tomorrow
22:55.24brlcadahh, ok
22:55.32Axman6heh, nah it's ok, download it
22:55.39brlcadyou sure?
22:55.43brlcadI can work with whatever
22:55.57Axman6you do it your way ;)
22:57.02brlcadby the way, what was your benchmark summary?
22:57.07brlcadthe vgr count
22:57.16Axman6ok, you don't need this account logged in locally any more right? since you won't need vnc or anything to check if it's working
22:57.22Axman6i think it was 6772
22:57.28Axman6i'll go check though
22:57.46brlcadcat summary will tell you
22:57.52brlcadand there's a log file
22:58.36Axman66776
22:59.23brlcadand you didn't compile optimized, so your system is probably somewhere around 13000
22:59.46brlcadnot too bad.. about a quad core ?
22:59.51Axman6i think i did actually
23:00.03Axman6dual core, so that makse sense
23:00.12Axman6yeah i used --enable-optimized
23:00.45Axman62x2.4GHz, 2GB RAM
23:00.47brlcadah, okay
23:01.31brlcadscales pretty much linearly up to the oct-cores
23:01.49brlcadI see about 27000 there
23:02.31Axman6very nice :)
23:03.23Axman6does 64-bit give any speed benefits?
23:03.59Axman6or just greater RAM access
23:05.02Axman6oh and you'l probably need to use another prefix right? since you won't have sudo access
23:05.22Axman6i guess i could give you rw access to /usr/brlcad
23:06.48brlcad64bit hardly ever increases speed in any app -- just increases the size of the models it'll grok successfully
23:07.53Axman6yeah. from the vids i saw rom WWDC 2006 i think only showed a speed increase when they were working with a file > 4GB
23:08.11Axman6the improvment was pretty damn impressive though
23:08.35Axman6something like going from 90s to 13s
23:09.23brlcadthat's because the code ends up jumping through it's own hoops to go over 2GB/4GB
23:09.43brlcadmost apps will just fail, abort, or crash at the boundary
23:10.29brlcadthe demo was just a hat trick to show if you *did* have to deal with the limited memory and still load big models, what it would be to be able to not have to move stuff in and out of the address space
23:11.46Axman6yeah, i understand it was a fairly rare situation, unless you work with things like genetics
23:21.19Axman6brlcad: have you checked X forwarding?
23:26.33Axman6ok, i'm heading out  now. so i'll catch ya later. fi you decide to do anytning today, good luck :)
23:52.27brlcadnot yet, just sorting out that base compilation problem is the first part of the problem
23:52.37brlcadwill look into it later tonight and tomorrow
23:59.54Axman6brlcad: i've also given you rw access to /usr/brlcad
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071202

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071202

00:04.33*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
00:05.03yukonbobHello, whirled.
00:09.58alex_jonibrlcad: hello
00:30.28*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
01:40.30*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca)
01:41.31IriX64on my system this needed doing to makefile.am in bwish,mged and rttherm ---->http://rafb.net/p/OCaS8j87.html
01:47.51IriX64later
05:43.45brlcadhello alex_joni
06:37.55*** join/#brlcad dtidrow_ (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
07:31.11*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-77-128.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:45.05Axman6hey brlcad, don't suppose you know where the file for that hubble telescope on source forge is do you?
09:26.14*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
13:58.01*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873D18.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:55.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer.bat: Minor mod related to install tree changes.
14:58.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/mged.bat: Minor mod related to install tree changes.
16:29.31*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-093-138.pools.arcor-ip.net)
17:12.35*** join/#brlcad Templer (n=Templer@78.16.27.240)
17:15.15Templeranyone know of an autocad equivalent for linux
17:16.52poolioTempler: brl-cad?
17:17.43Templeris it good in 2d also
17:21.05pooliohmm, i've never used it for 2d stuff
17:46.54*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-74-125.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:23.50brlcadAxman6: I have a pretty good idea "where" it is, but it's not exactly a public-release model -- afaik, stsi owns that model (the folks that built/manage hubble)
18:41.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Create include directory (only BRL-CAD header files for now).
18:44.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Force asc2g to be built last.
18:47.44CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/asc2g/asc2g.vcproj: Added post-build commands to create .g files.
18:48.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Mods to work with new install tree.
19:33.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Archer's documentation has moved.
21:51.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (mged/cad_boundp.c remrt/rtsrv.c): no longer need the pre-ansi hacks with c89 functionality assumption, remove the non stdard-based variable-length argument functions
21:57.14CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/track.c: reformat parameters to crname() and crregion() so that they now take a max length parameter. make all the str() funcs use their n-variant to check the string bounds
22:05.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: want the other HAVE_STDARG_H section
22:06.14*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@whthyt237-51.northwestel.net)
22:16.46*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.184.76)
22:35.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (106 files in 10 dirs):
22:35.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: woo hoo, finally got through most of the flawfinder level 4 issues related to
22:35.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: string buffer limits (leaving issues that can probably/mostly be ignored).
22:35.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: these changes mostly invovlved using the n-variants of the various string
22:35.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: processing functions so that the buffers being written to are properly clamped.
22:44.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rtscale.c: strncat has to account for what's already in there
22:46.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: most of the flawfinder issues that we should probably care about are all pretty much accounted for now -- having reviewed all the level 4 and 5 issues individually
22:51.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h): no longer need the vprintf test, c89 is a given and all usages of HAVE_VPRINTF are gone
23:17.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): make sure we check db_lookup() for a null return value throughout and do something sensible
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071203

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071203

00:09.53*** join/#brlcad jhujhiti (n=jhujhiti@64.252.100.253)
00:10.36jhujhiti../../src/libdm/.libs/libdm.so: undefined reference to `XFreeDeviceList' on debian testing. i cannot, for the life of me, figure out which package i'm missing
00:14.51jhujhitiwith 7.10.4, by the way
00:35.03``Erikum, it probably didn't link libXi.so ?
00:35.11``Erikdid you run autoreconf or autogen or anything?
00:36.22jhujhitiah ha! libxi-dev wasn't installed. i'll try that
00:36.39``Erikthose'd just be headers...
00:36.43jhujhiti``Erik: i didn't. i'm quite sure i just didn't install all of the -dev packages and the configure script didn't pick up on it
00:38.43``Erikand now; conrad twitty.
00:39.34jhujhitihaha
00:40.18``Erikanyways, that's a lib error, not a header error, so having libXi.so should be all you need... however; debian "fixes" libtool, which horribly breaks any nontrivial use of dependancy libs, and libdm makes a non-trivial use of the dependancy_libs variable in the libdm.la file
00:40.46``Erikif you're working with stuff striaght out of the tarball and didn't touch any of the automake files, it SHOULD work
00:41.01``Erikif you have libXi.so handy :)
00:45.06jhujhitii have /usr/lib/libXi.so{,.6,.6.0.0}
00:45.51jhujhitiit's running its own libtool.
00:46.01``Erikin theory, ldd /path/to/libdm.so SHOULD list one of those
00:46.31jhujhitierr, libdm isn't building?
00:46.57jhujhitiwhoops. disregard that.
00:47.55jhujhitiit doesn't.
00:48.05jhujhitiit doesn't list *any* missing libraries. and no mention of libXi
00:48.40``Erikweird
00:48.59``Erikand in the build directory, what's the dependancies line in src/libdm/libdm.la look like?
00:49.51jhujhitiheh, probably too long to paste, eh?
00:49.56jhujhitialthough there IS a newline in it
00:50.06jhujhitidependency_libs=' -L/usr/local/lib /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/librt/librt.la -L/home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/tcl/unix /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libbn/libbn.la /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/libregex/libregex.la /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libsysv/libsysv.la /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/other/openNURBS/libopenNURBS.la -lstdc++ /home/jhujhiti/build/brlcad-7.10.4/src/libfb/libfb.la
00:50.45``Erikdid it truncate? the last thing I saw was libfb.la
00:51.00jhujhitithen i guess the answer is yes. let me pastebin it
00:51.07``Erikthere *SHOULD* be an -lXi on it
00:51.45``Erikmine looks like http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/d22fad3d6  (on a mac)
00:52.10jhujhitihttp://qna.nu/p18vc/?raw
00:52.29jhujhitithere's no Xi in it
00:53.23``Erikodd
00:53.36jhujhitilet me blow away the build directory and start from scratch..
00:54.18``Erikso if you grep ^X_LIBS Makefile
00:54.21``Erikthere's no Xi in that?
00:54.26``ErikX_LIBS =   -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi
00:54.37jhujhitiheh, too late =)
00:54.48jhujhitiis there a signature of the tarball somewhere?
00:54.55jhujhitior an md5sum? sourceforge never makes it easy
00:55.51``ErikI wonder if you'd need to do something like sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libXi.so.6 /usr/lib/libXi.so ?
00:56.00``Erikhttp://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/cad/brlcad/distinfo?rev=1.15   has md5 and sha256
00:56.15jhujhiti/usr/lib/libXi.so.6.0.0
00:56.15jhujhiti/usr/lib/libXi.so
00:56.16jhujhiti/usr/lib/libXi.so.6
00:56.26jhujhitifrom find
00:56.54``Erikum, does libXi.so actually resolve to the libXi.so.6.0.0 file?
00:57.04jhujhitihow would i check that?
00:57.08``Erikcould be a bad symlink, left over? *shrug*
00:57.11``Erikum, ls -l it?
00:57.12``Erik:)
00:57.24``Erikor file, or if you're feeling brave, cat it... er... I mean, run file on it :D
00:57.38jhujhiti/usr/lib/libXi.so -> libXi.so.6.0.0
00:57.49``Erikweird
00:58.04jhujhiticonfigure just finished. which makefile should i grep on?
00:58.21``Erikif 'grep ^X_LIBS Makefile' doesn't have -lXi in it, would you be able to post your config.log somewhere?
00:58.25``Erikany of them shoudl work
00:58.35*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@c-67-172-239-24.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
00:58.38jhujhitiX_LIBS =   -lX11 -lX11 -lXext -lXi
00:59.31jhujhitierr, should the configure step be creating libdm.la?
00:59.52``Erikno, that's during the compile
01:00.05``Erikwhat about 'grep ^DM_LIBS Makefile' ?
01:00.08jhujhitiall right. well then.. is this thing make -j safe?
01:00.18``Eriki do it all the time on 4 and 8 core machines, it SHOULD work fine
01:00.36jhujhitii haven't been using it because i wasn't sure. but it takes a bit before it bails out. i'll try make again
01:00.50jhujhiti-lXi is at the very end of that grep.
01:00.53``Erikok
01:00.55``Erikum
01:00.56``Erikheh
01:01.09``Erikyou can, uh, go into src/libdm and do "make depends"
01:01.21``Erikto bypass a fair bit of stuff ya don't need for libdm proper
01:01.22``Erik:)
01:01.41jhujhitilet's see if a regular make bails first..
01:01.41``Erik(provided I did it right)
01:01.45``Erikaight
01:02.25jhujhitido you know off the top of your head what file i could look for to see if the build is past that point?
01:03.06``Erikuhmmmmmm well, if src/mged/mged exists, then libdm is linking ok
01:05.17jhujhitineat, -j2 is generating over 3.5 load usually it's just over 2
01:06.18jhujhiti-rwxr-xr-x 1 jhujhiti 1000 9.0K 2007-12-02 20:06 src/mged/mged*
01:06.29jhujhiti*sigh* that was the third try. what the hell?
01:07.31``Erikheh
01:07.48``Eriklike everything technological that doesn't work, it always works when someone else is looking :D
01:07.58jhujhitii did upgrade from etch to testing between that second one, but i was getting the same error as with stable
01:08.05jhujhitiheh, indeed
01:08.13jhujhitiwell, thanks for the help ( i guess )
01:08.24``Eriknp, I guess O.o :D
01:08.38jhujhitilooks like all that heartache over moving away from stable was unnecessary.
01:08.48jhujhitibut i'm not installing debian again to go back.
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03:12.30*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
05:53.28*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
06:32.35Axman6brlcad: yt?
07:09.31*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@77-56-93-5.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:12.26*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
07:23.25PrezKennedybrlcad, have you seen http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/IRSeeK-en?
07:30.00Axman6i'm hoping freenode find a way to ban them
07:31.34PrezKennedyi think they stopped em for now
07:31.34Axman6also, anyone know a good tool for viewing or onverting .pix files on OS X?
07:33.46PrezKennedythis is what i posted on bram cohen's blog for his irseek "utility"
07:34.03PrezKennedyHi, I’m here to log every website you operate. Since they’re available publicly on the Internet, I’ll be taking all of your content and making it searchable from my own site. Also, I’ll be slapping up ads and trying to make a buck from it. If you don’t like that you can opt-out of course.
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07:35.00PrezKennedy*eran cohen... hmm getting too late to read
07:38.49yukonbobAxman6: you have BRLCAD installed?
07:39.05yukonbobif so, see pix-png(1) et al
07:39.50Defconbw-png?
07:48.57Axman6ah, thanks :)
08:06.51Axman6and.. how do i raytrace to a .pix file?
08:15.06Axman6ah got it
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09:34.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: do not return a pointer to a temporary variable, made variable static
09:37.34CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/dg_obj.c: typing error in preceding commit
09:39.22Axman6so what is it that makes brlcad's raytracer so fast anyway?
09:42.03Defconsome fine ass C coding prolly
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11:50.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: argv not ptr
12:00.59brlcadPrezKennedy: yes, I have been following some of that
12:01.25brlcadthey were stopped, and then they stopped after the freenode ban
12:06.41Axman6hey brlcad, had a chance to mess around with my mbp yet?
12:47.33*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
14:49.00``ErikPrezKennedy: shoulda told him he was infringing on your copyright by reproducing your work without license or permission and told him that if he doesn't remove it all immediately, you'd be contacting a lawyer... :D
14:50.20``ErikAxman6: BRL-CAD goes back to the days of pdp and vax, with computers measured in kilohertz, not gigahertz... it *HAD* to be tight back then, so even with the bloat through the ages, it's reasonably tight :)
14:51.03Axman6heh, yeah :)
14:52.08Axman6when i worked at the charity computer place here, we found some bits that had obviously been pulled off olllddd machines, little LED counter displays, showing the CPU's speed in MHz... with only two digits
14:53.28``Erikheh, I had a few of those
14:53.46``Erikoften set to "HI" and "LO"
14:54.08``Erikman, the slew of jumpers on the back of those things made configuring those a fun exercise O.o
14:54.22Axman6we found some awesome stuff there like HDD's from seagate that were about 17x14x10cm, and 1GB
14:54.34``Erikwith I still had 'em :( now I'm buying straight line versions and having to breadboard them
14:54.42Axman6wtf's a jumper?
14:54.48Axman6i kis i kid, don't worry ;)
14:54.54Axman6kid even
14:54.55``Erikthose're called "full height"
14:55.05``Erikthe winchesters you're used to seeing used to be called "half height"
14:55.17Axman6heh
14:55.28Axman6i used the 7 platters from one to make an artwork
14:55.53``Erikm as in megs
14:56.40``Erik<-- also remembers drooling over the $3000 20m hdd's :( but at the time, a 3.5" floppy was "almost hard drive like" compared to the 5.25"s
14:56.56``Erikgood old commodores
14:59.50Defconlolz
14:59.50Defconyeah
14:59.53Defcongood times
15:03.10Z80-BoyI started on a ZX Spectrum
15:03.32PrezKennedy``Erik, that's SO cliche
15:04.52DefconZ80-Boy : do u still need http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text
15:06.55Axman6our first comp was a Mac Plus. i still have it, it's almost as old as me :)
15:08.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: Daniel fixed a mged start-up initialization bug on Windows where a local var was being returned for the brlcad_data path. yuck.
15:08.41Z80-BoyDefcon: no
15:09.05Defconok
15:09.58Axman6ah ha! brlcad is in my machine!
15:10.13Axman6the fans just revved up :P
15:10.37brlcad:)
15:12.00Axman6didn't know wtf was going on, saw perl running under your name
15:14.32brlcadyou must be on the other side of the planet from me, aussie perhaps
15:14.36brlcadpretty big latency
15:15.16brlcad(not a problem)
15:17.10Axman6yeah, australia indeed
15:17.27brlcadcool
15:17.31Axman6and my connection sucks balls. 256k down, 64k up :(
15:17.41brlcadthat explains why you keep going to sleep when I wake up
15:17.42brlcad:)
15:17.49brlcadthat does suck
15:20.30Axman6hopefully we'll be getting a lot faster these holidays
15:21.48Axman6if you're compiling stuff on here, using -j 2 speeds it up a lot
15:22.29Z80-BoyAxman6: back in Prague I built myself an optical wireless Internet connection to my balcony - I couldn't complain :) Not many people have optics directly to their flat ;-)
15:22.50Axman6heh
15:23.26Axman6we can get optics here, i can see the cab;e outside my window. yet they defided our suburb didn't need it. wankers
15:23.29Z80-BoyBefore that my Internet connection really sucked - it was 0 down and 0 up
15:23.43Z80-BoyAxman6: the same happened in our case with cable TV
15:23.55Axman6lol
15:23.58Z80-BoyBut I defined I want it and since I developed my own FSO...
15:24.12DefconFileSystemObject?
15:24.12Axman6how'd you do that anyway?
15:24.23Z80-BoyI just pointed my finger to my friend's house and defined the data will go there - and they did :)
15:24.28Z80-BoyFree Space Optics
15:24.32Defconohw :)
15:24.45Z80-BoyI went to my balcony and said "Let there be light" and there was
15:24.47``Erikerm, but, brlcad, we're int he same time zone, and you tend to be going to sleep when I wake up... O.o :D
15:25.19Defconlol
15:25.41Z80-BoyAxman6: we even had a coaxial cable that went stright through our house without a tap to another house over the street
15:25.48Z80-BoyThe other house had catv, we didn't
15:26.03Axman6cheers
15:26.48Z80-BoyAxman6: since then I think people should stop complaining and simple build their internet connection themselves if they don't like the commercial ones.
15:27.10Axman6so what's the other end of yours connect to
15:27.11Axman6?
15:27.15Z80-Boyto a friend
15:27.20Z80-Boyand he connected to another friend
15:27.27Z80-Boyand that was connected with another friend with a cable
15:27.31``Erikheh
15:27.45Z80-Boyand that one was connected through a professional grade guaranteed microwave link to fibre optics backbone
15:28.06Z80-BoyBut since it was profi it was symmetric and they cared about us.
15:28.20Z80-BoySo I had fast both downloads and uploads
15:28.37Z80-BoyAnd it was cheap. And it was already in time when broadband connection was rare.
15:28.40``Erika couple states ago, I had a buddy that lived out in a community with no high speed uplink, he was planning on getting a t1 and setting up a repeated ethernet deal with his neighbors to cost share
15:28.51Axman6bastard
15:29.01Axman6i couldn't do that gere though
15:29.05Axman6here*
15:29.16``Erikhighspeed co-op... this was before adsl and cable modems started getting traction
15:29.27Axman6canberra's just too spread out... and even the backbone ain't that fast here :P
15:29.41Z80-Boywhere in australia is canberra?
15:30.04``Erikin the tiny little strip with people, dur :D *duck*
15:30.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libwdb/strsol.c: quell empty compilation unit warning
15:30.26Z80-Boywhich coast?
15:31.08Axman6east, inland from sydney.. it happens to be the nation's capitol ;)
15:32.24``Erikhttp://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-35.281501,148.683472&spn=21.622459,54.777832&z=6
15:33.30Z80-BoyIs it good for surfing>?
15:33.54Axman6yeah, if you don't ind a 200KM drive ;)
15:33.58Z80-Boyomg
15:33.59Axman6mind*
15:34.16Z80-Boyis it 200km from the coast?
15:34.27Z80-Boyor on the coast but 200km to the next usable surfing spot?
15:34.30``Erikbut it's australia, you can do that in what, an hour? a little less? :D
15:34.40Z80-Boyor on the cost but 200km are occupied by rowdy local surfers?
15:34.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (if_X.c if_X24.c if_ogl.c if_tk.c if_wgl.c): quell empty compilation unit warning
15:34.50Axman6ah 200Km from the coast
15:35.02Axman6nah* damn keyboard
15:35.36Z80-Boy``Erik: that means you need to go >200 km/h
15:35.51``Erikuh huh? it's australia! there's nothin' there, you can open it up :D *duck*
15:35.53Axman6``Erik: we have sane speed limits, fastest in this part of Aus is 110Kph. the NT used to have unlimited roads
15:36.03Z80-Boywhat if you hit a kangaroo, koala, wombat or elephant-sized spider in that speed?
15:36.11Z80-BoyIt could have arepercussions for your vehicle
15:36.21Axman6kangaroo's does serious damage to cars man
15:36.27``Erikdur (and I think kangaroos are the big ones, as bad as deer here in the US)
15:36.33Axman6like, you can write off your car if you hit one
15:36.37brlcadAxman6: thanks for the hint, though I'm pretty adept in parallel compilation :)
15:36.50Axman6lol, my bad :P
15:36.59brlcad``Erik: heh
15:37.24Axman6yeah... if you are going -j it, don't do it until i say it's ok, ok? don't want to burn my lap ;)
15:37.27``Erik-j2 is a waste of hw, we do at least -j8 on our workstations, axman :)
15:38.24``Erikand brlcad wrote a 'fast' target to do big parallel compiles to take advantage of the 12 and 16 core boxen floating around
15:39.39Axman6and 512 too?
15:40.17``ErikI haven't dorked with compile speeds on machines with multiple cores sharing a cache like the duos do, but back in the day of each core having its own die and cache, you wanted more threads than cores... like on a two processor Usparc (like a usparc2 or e450), I'd do -j3
15:40.50``Erikum, we  have I think 2048 core "machines", but recursive make means the most you can parallelize is the number of compilation units in a given directory
15:41.09Axman6yeah, Apple are pretty good at threading support i believe, so that might improve things a little
15:41.57``ErikI d'no, multithreading on g5 has serious kernel flaws for performance... balancing instead of tuning affinity for cache coherence, and no user knobs back in the day... the shared cache machines alleviate that
15:42.58``Erikthe mac pros probably have some of that issue, since they have two l2 caches (two 4-core dies)
15:44.33Axman6yeah.. lost me now
15:45.27brlcadthe 'fast' target also links in parallel unlike default all target, so it can speed things up on a cluster or machines with wide I/O to spare
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15:46.04brlcadAxman6: I have compiled on a 512 processor box (single image SMP) before, quite nice
15:46.28Z80-Boybrlcad: then you use -j 1024
15:46.30Z80-Boy?
15:46.31brlcadlimited more by the make architecture at that point, the per-directory linking phases
15:46.32Axman6heh :)
15:55.08alex_jonihttp://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/books/rmch/ :)
15:56.23brlcadalex_joni: yes, that's old old stuff (and mostly crap)
15:56.46alex_jonibrlcad: yeah, I know.. that's why I smiled
15:57.02alex_jonihowever, it does seem to provide advantages sometimes to have a central Makefile
15:57.35brlcadI've been meaning to write a Nonrecursive Make Also Considered Harmful for a couple years
15:57.48brlcadthere are advantages and disadvantages just like most things
15:57.52alex_joniyup
15:59.01brlcadabout as fruitful as trying to categorically declare centralized revision control systems as bad (or good)
16:00.07brlcadyou give up quite a lot of features by going non-recursive, features that are a pita to implement and maintain in a non-recursive make build system
16:01.00brlcadi still end up waiting more on gcc for the actual compiles and disk I/O than I end up waiting on make
16:01.49brlcadconfigure and the installation phase actually takes the longest on the faster systems these days than the actual compilation
16:02.12Axman6could configure be made faster?
16:02.23brlcadmostly due to I/O .. the disks just can't read/write the data fast enough
16:02.52Axman6probably not then
16:02.53brlcadconfigure could be streamlined to perform fewer tests, but it's biggest problem is that it's non-trivial to parallelize
16:03.12brlcadand it is massively i/o bound anyways so yeah, wouldn't gain a *whole* lot
16:03.23alex_joniright.. configure is not a place for optimizing
16:03.43alex_joni(you only run it seldom anyways.. <- from the devel point of view)
16:04.14alex_jonithe biggest issues I had with recursive make was depenencies from one subfolder to another.. that caused some extra compiling
16:04.18Axman6it's 50% of the compile process for average users though ;)
16:08.40brlcadalex_joni: most of the cases of "extra compiling" that I've heard of were either incorrectly structured source files or actual valid (i.e. necessary) recompilation
16:09.41brlcadAxman6: what's 50%?  the configure phase?
16:10.09Axman6well, not time wise. but can be pretty major art times
16:12.05brlcadon an old 12 proc altix, it takes about 1 minute to run configure, 2 minutes to compile everything, and 4 minutes to install
16:14.20alex_jonibrlcad: I guess it was a combo CVS + incorrectly structured files.. :)
16:14.42alex_joni(I only said CVS because you know what pain it is to move files around..)
16:14.48brlcadon MBP it's about 1 min configure, 9 min to compile (on 2-core), and about 4 min to install ;)
16:17.21Axman6that's while playing james bond ;)
16:18.21CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r355 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/ (inc/Makefile.am inc/botlib.h src/Makefile.am): add build files to compile the new noinst botlib
16:18.47CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r356 10/trunk/libirc/botlib/Makefile.am: ws
16:19.22CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r357 10/trunk/libirc/NEWS: itemize news for a 0.2 release
16:19.40CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r358 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: have to traverse botlib before src
16:20.00CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r359 10/trunk/libirc/src/Makefile.am: link in botlib
16:20.15CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r360 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: generate the makefiles for botlib
16:21.30``Erikor mebbe tclscripts, since there's nothing to do in 'all', just 'install'
16:22.23Axman6brlcad: any of those Leopard fixes by any chance??
16:22.38brlcadAxman6: nope
16:22.48brlcadmy compile actually worked out of the box on the first try :)
16:22.51brlcad(on your machine)
16:22.54Axman6heh, oh well
16:23.00Axman6that is odd :
16:23.03brlcadbut has the cg_png bug on install
16:23.03Axman6:|
16:23.17brlcadyou ran distclean at some point
16:23.35brlcadso you blew away the already-generated tclIndex files .. so when it went to regenerate them, it failed
16:23.50brlcadthat problem still exists but since I've no need to distclean, the build completely succeeds
16:23.58brlcadjust fails after it's installed
16:24.01Axman6since i copied my .bash_profile over for you so you had the same PATH etc. i did
16:24.17brlcadit's not anything path-related
16:24.22Axman6rightp
16:24.27Axman6o*
16:25.01Axman6yeah i didn't think it would be, but lis are found usinf PATH in a way right? maybe i'm making that up...
16:26.08Axman6libs* beh
16:26.18brlcadnope
16:26.59brlcadthey're find by traversing a set of system-default dyld search paths, and can be overridden with various compilation/linker flags and environment variables
16:27.01CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r361 10/trunk/libirc/ (31 files in 11 dirs): credit where credit is due, assign copyright to the Jeff guy that actually wrote most of it all
16:27.11brlcadDYLD_LIBRARY_PATH for example
16:28.34Axman6yeah
16:29.03``Erikneato, symbolics was the first to register a .com domain name (they made lithp machineth)
16:29.20CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r362 10/trunk/libirc/AUTHORS: yet he is not me
16:29.30CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r363 10/trunk/libirc/autogen.sh: and he didn't write this
16:30.08CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r364 10/trunk/libirc/configure.ac: this is libIRC project.. not 'that other project'
16:36.15CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r365 10/trunk/libirc/ (5 files in 3 dirs): accept pelya's sf patch [ 1843257 ] "MSVC 6 project files" -- thanks\!
16:39.19CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r366 10/trunk/libirc/AUTHORS: thank pelya for the vc6 build system addition
16:41.10CIA-28libirc: 03brlcad * r367 10/trunk/libirc/Makefile.am: add vc6 to the source dist
16:47.03brlcadwell now that's really interesting
16:47.17brlcadonce installed, our compiled-in rpaths do seem to kick in and take over
16:47.28brlcadno dyld issues
16:47.33brlcadAxman6: try running mged -f
16:48.06Axman6X Error of failed request:  BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)
16:48.09brlcaddo you get the X error, the cg err, or no err
16:48.11brlcadokay
16:48.12Axman6etc.
16:48.15brlcadwell that's good
16:49.11brlcadthat means a base install will actually work just fine compilation-wise, so long as you don't distclean
16:54.04brlcadhm, I do get the X11 bug even remotely (talking to your X11 server)
16:54.28brlcadinitial thoughts look like this might be an Xorg bug
16:58.37Axman6very very possible
16:58.57Z80-BoyX11 is one big bug
16:59.00Axman6Apple seem to have broken X pretty badly with the move to Xorg
16:59.03Axman6agreed
16:59.50Z80-BoyI compile Xorg 6.9 on Linux From Scratch and it works fine except every time I shut it down, it prints a white rectangle in the place of cursor, a dark strip in the bottom and the screen freezes.
16:59.55Z80-BoyI have to reboot the computer then.
17:00.32Axman6haha
17:00.53brlcadAxman6: try this:  XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 mged -f
17:01.09Axman6i'm so glad Apple didn't go with X and went their own way. get a great UNIX system, without the X crap
17:01.28Axman6same error
17:10.08*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
17:27.10brlcadhuh, one of the suggestions I ran into was to roll back to Tiger's X11, which apparently works
17:27.26brlcadso maybe just a matter of time, waiting for the fix
17:27.45brlcadstill looking for details as to what exactly is *causing* the problem to see if it can be avoided
17:31.12Axman6i think i'm going to cry, just watched james bond's latest Aston get written off
17:33.57brlcadwhere he flipped it a few dozen times?
17:34.20brlcadto avoid the girl they tossed into the road
17:34.22alex_jonibrlcad: ever looked at u3d ?
17:35.11Axman6yeah
17:35.13``Eriklike http://my2iu.blogspot.com/2005/04/u3d-is-half-baked.html ? :)
17:35.16brlcadalex_joni: the geometry format standard from intel?
17:35.26alex_joniyeah, that one
17:35.27brlcadhttp://www.intel.com/technology/systems/u3d/
17:35.32brlcadno, never heard of it :P
17:35.39alex_jonilol @ brlcad
17:36.02alex_joniI'm specifically looking at it because it *should* be easy to integrade U3D objects into pdf's
17:36.54``Erikdepends on whos pdf library you use, I'd imagine
17:37.32alex_joniI think people succeeded with libharu (if I recall the name correctly)
17:38.01alex_joni``Erik: but it seems Adobe integrated U3D into pdf's version 7 or later
17:38.15``Erikyeah, if you happen to use adobes pdf libraries... :D
17:39.22alex_joniwell.. umm .. yeah
17:39.40Axman6:P
17:39.59``Erikgood idea, axman, start codin' that up :D
17:40.08brlcadahh, now I see why Apple made the s/X11R6/X11/ move
17:40.15brlcadlooks like Xorg is pushing out an R7 finally
17:40.30Axman6i thought it was R7
17:40.40Axman6not that they eans much to me
17:40.48Axman6that means* wow
17:41.01brlcadI think I new that, but forgot
17:41.26brlcadand knew it too
17:42.17``Erikfbsd has been using xorg 7.3 for a bit
17:42.19brlcadah, R7.3 just in september
17:42.27brlcad.2 in feb
17:42.45``Erikah, those silly beta using fools
17:43.41``Erikrug
17:44.02brlcadspeaking of which.. beta3
17:44.11``Eriksaw it a few days ago
17:44.24``Erikif they're cycling betas that fast, I'm hoping they're getting close to a release O.o
17:44.39brlcad"8.5 is nearing the end of feature development."
17:45.16brlcadthey're concept of a beta isn't apparently "fix things" but last minute additions
17:45.24``Erikodd
17:45.39``Erikwonder what 'alpha' means to them
17:45.50brlcadjust getting started ;)
17:46.11``Eriksome camps call that pre-alpha O.o :D
17:46.35curiousthem slackers
17:46.39brlcadthat just might fix/hide this 10.5 startup bug
17:47.25Axman6calling it a beta? :P
17:47.27brlcadfrom what I've seen, the bug seems to be provoked by ati driver and the new freetype code (as it pertains to tcl/tk) along with a couple Xorg bugs
17:48.06brlcadhowdy yukonbob
17:49.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: silly coder, snprintf needs a length, too
17:49.09Axman6brlcad: well wouldn't be an ATI problem here
17:49.18Axman6oww :(
17:49.24Axman674C
17:49.33``Erikuhmmmm, uhhhh
17:49.46``Erikget, uh, CoreDuoTemp and smcSomething, uhhhh
17:50.05yukonbobAxman6: good -- I'm ready for breakfast -- two eggs, basted + brown toast, please.
17:50.22Axman682C
17:50.30Axman6not even 100% cpu either
17:50.32``Erikthere're some nifty utilities for controlling the fan speed envelopes
17:50.41``EriksmcFanControl
17:50.57Axman6yeah i have SMCFanController... it'a what's telling me the temp :P
17:51.09Axman686C
17:51.17*** part/#brlcad jhujhiti (n=jhujhiti@64.252.100.253)
17:51.19Axman6fan's haven't kicked in yet
17:51.23``Erikif you push up the low and tweak the envelope, you can keep the temp a lot lower
17:51.24Axman687
17:51.36Axman6there we go
17:51.59brlcadAxman6: yep, 'cause of that I/O limit
17:52.09``ErikI mostly did it because I was getting annoyed at the fans going on and off a lot, so I pushed the low up to like 2000 or 2500 rpm (not very audible) and they greatly reduced the fan cycling
17:52.17CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/dodraw.c: double oops, snprintf doesn't need %s size limits
17:52.20brlcadit really wouldn't go must faster if you have 20 cpus or a cpu that was 10x faster
17:52.20Axman6brlcad: make?
17:52.24brlcads/must/much/
17:52.32brlcadno, the autogen.sh and configure steps
17:53.00``Erikthe %Ns limit doesn't hurt nothin', but pushing the format string as the limit does... :D
17:53.04Axman6ok. yeah because make cn easily use 100% on moth cores
17:53.33brlcad``Erik: i know, it was just pointless
17:54.18brlcadwould have mattered had buffer had more than 32 chars space, but not at same
17:59.24Axman6bah, there is no way bond would use a sony vaio!
18:03.44brlcadI was right, it is related to the freetype2 X11 processing code in Tk
18:03.50brlcadAxman6: should be working now
18:04.44Axman6mged -f?
18:05.13Axman6same error still
18:05.56Axman6hang on
18:07.07Axman6how oddwell, no error, but i don't get the mged prompt
18:07.40Axman6so i can't seem to actually do anything with it :\
18:20.07Axman6and mged -f gives the same error again
18:25.52Axman68ok, sleep time. g'night all. brlcad if you have anything you need me to test, or news, just hilight me and i'l get it in the morning
18:29.54``Erikheh, cvs -z3 commit -m 'terrible crimes against humanity'
18:29.56``Erik*cough* O.o
18:31.31brlcadhm, Axman6 yours answers were rather confusing to me :)
18:31.46brlcadAxman6: did no windows pop up when you ran mged -f?
18:43.39brlcadAxman6: because it works here.. I successfully ran the mged installed in /usr/brlcad/bin/mged and actually have it displaying all the way from the continent you're on to mine over X, and seems to be working just fine
18:44.49brlcadat least.. where working is a 5 min startup delay and each mouse click takes about 1 minute to respond :)
18:48.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: disable the new freetype font system in Tk 8.5 for now until they're final -- this should 'fix'/avoid a bug reported by dwayne regarding the mged font manager not working right in 7.10.4
21:47.19*** join/#brlcad shprotius (n=shprotiu@c-76-106-99-152.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
21:55.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/proe-g.c: be more consistent on the buffer lengths and limits (needs testing on the name generation) using MAX_LINE_LENGTH for the names too
21:58.18yukonbobbrlcad: scan.coverity still pending?
22:08.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c: move the format string to the (single) use
22:25.13CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (6 files): build execution paths for both single and double precision floats in the same lib
22:25.26brlcadyukonbob: yep
22:28.00CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: don't need the HAVE_STDARG_H checks any more, keep it simple
22:28.22CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbfade.c: const labelification
22:28.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cell-fb.c: make sure we don't go too far on the buffer
22:30.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: const lables
22:31.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie.h): make triangle degeneracy testing a runtime selectable feature
22:31.03yukonbobbrlcad: :P
22:43.00*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1177613911.dsl.bell.ca)
22:57.48*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca)
22:58.20IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/7.11.0.png    <--- finally
22:58.40CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (17 files in 8 dirs): c89 simplification. assume stdarg is a given.
23:01.00IriX64that makefile.am thing is one thing, -lXft in X_libs is needed in bwish,mged,and rttherm
23:01.37louipcIriX64: what's in the image?
23:01.45IriX64ktank :)
23:01.55louipcoh
23:02.14IriX64you said you were tired of helicopters ;)
23:02.21louipchahha
23:02.50louipcIriX64: have you tried playing with any linux/bsd yet?
23:03.10IriX64not yet, waiting for Christmas
23:03.17louipcah
23:03.42louipcyou know, I think I'd rather just use one of those in a VM rather than cygwin heh
23:03.56IriX64vm costs money :)
23:04.34IriX64altho,like all else once spent it's spent :)
23:04.57louipchttp://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
23:05.10louipcthat one is free
23:06.19IriX64downloading it thanks man
23:06.36alex_jonithere is also a free one from VMware
23:06.45louipcyeah I thought so too
23:06.46alex_joniVMware server, if my memory still serves me
23:06.57IriX64checked vmware,didn't see the free one
23:07.10louipchaha it's on the front page
23:07.11alex_joniIriX64: what platform?
23:07.16louipchttp://www.vmware.com/
23:07.17alex_joni(for the host..)
23:07.21IriX64amd64
23:08.10IriX64vista64 actually
23:08.18alex_jonihttp://register.vmware.com/content/download103.html
23:08.21louipcoh you have to register though
23:08.41louipchey you bypassed it?
23:08.57IriX64i registered the evaluation workstation copy
23:09.08alex_jonilouipc: no, you still have to register after the download
23:09.14louipcah
23:09.26alex_jonis/after/during/before/
23:09.37alex_joniwhatever suits you :)
23:09.51IriX64heh whatever suit fits :)
23:10.14alex_joniwell.. so far I didn't either.. but lately I got 2-3 examples that really worked as advertised
23:10.35alex_jonivmware was one of them
23:11.30louipcyou eat your visitors?
23:13.25alex_jonilouipc: if they're foolish enough to come without food
23:13.49louipcaha!
23:20.04louipcqemu does
23:22.51louipcoh yeah bochs too
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071204

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071204

00:44.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/cell-fb.c: strNcat
00:57.15CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/fbstretch.c: too many lines
01:12.07``Erikheh
01:32.42CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/fb.h: don't need the non __STDC__ decls any longer, include bu.h in order to declare the stdarg compiler hint
01:36.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (7 files in 4 dirs): remove the last traces of stdarg/vararg testing. c89 conformance provides the stdarg interface.
04:10.56*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
05:50.31*** join/#brlcad CIA-28 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
07:28.39*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
07:30.31*** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@61-69-24-60.netspeed.com.au)
07:51.33*** join/#brlcad yukonbob (n=yukonbob@198.235.198.234)
07:59.23*** join/#brlcad DEFCON_ (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
08:22.38*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:22.54*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
11:11.46*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
11:32.15*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos___ (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
11:52.54*** join/#brlcad CIA-28 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
11:58.29*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@77.237.112.8)
12:07.49Axman6"Implement or integrate a RenderMan-compliant interface (e.g. Pixie) to BRL-CAD's ray-trace library" looking to have Toy Story 6 rendered entirely using BRL-CAD eh brlcad? :P
12:43.10*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487440C.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:08.41brlcadAxman6: heh, not exactly
13:08.48brlcadbut would be interesting :)
13:08.52Axman6aww :P
13:08.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: update to the details on the C++age since there is some now
13:09.10Axman6yeah, i'd be interested to see how it would stack up to what Pixar uses
13:12.49Axman6also, if you want to do more Leopard work, the MBP's all yours for the next 8 or so hours
14:11.20*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
14:13.33brlcadAxman6: thanks, though I think I've done what I can
14:14.13brlcaddid you get my message earlier -- what does it do/report if you run "/usr/brlcad/bin/mged -f" now?
14:14.20Axman6ok, well if you have any bright ideas, t's all yours
14:14.46Axman6same X error
14:20.11Axman6just tried in the guest account, same thing
14:20.27Axman6and seep time for me. G'night all
14:41.37*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
14:56.36MaloeranEh well, Mark is meeting Disney Studios on the December 17th to talk about raytracing stuff, rayforce and renderman probably
14:57.10*** join/#brlcad dtidrow (n=dtidrow@c-69-255-182-248.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
15:00.13DEFCON_very nice :)
15:01.08DEFCON_btw: hi Maloeran
15:01.17DEFCON_tnx for Ectroverse again :)
15:04.41MaloeranOh hrm, have you been playing? That was such a long time ago :)
15:07.12MaloeranA rather stressing and annoying experience overall, it sure taught me to stick to writing code rather than manage some kind of community, and never again to write code "for fun, as it goes" without any kind of planning whatsoever
15:10.37DEFCON_haha
15:10.45DEFCON_yeah i know what u mean actually
15:11.04DEFCON_but the game is still alive after 5(?) years
15:11.25MaloeranSo I heard. I haven't had the heart to check it out
15:11.33DEFCON_it would be nice if u dropped by
15:11.40DEFCON_www.ectroverse.com
15:12.01MaloeranAre you involved somehow or in touch with these people?
15:12.08DEFCON_just make a quick "hi" post in the forums
15:12.19DEFCON_"these ppl" as in brlcad or ev?
15:12.31Maloeran:) I mean Ev
15:12.36DEFCON_:)
15:12.40DEFCON_yes, yes i am
15:13.24MaloeranEh nice. Are you somehow involved in BRL-CAD as well?
15:13.40DEFCON_not involved no
15:13.50DEFCON_but i follow the app
15:13.56DEFCON_i like the results of it
15:14.20MaloeranI sure remember a DEFCON on IRC from the EV days, but I must admit it's a bit vague, the memories are slowly coming back
15:14.33DEFCON_yeah it was me
15:14.33DEFCON_:)
15:14.49DEFCON_do you remember berlijnse_bol aka daydreamer?
15:14.57MaloeranOh sure, of course
15:15.10DEFCON_he is a friend of me irl
15:15.20DEFCON_he introduced me to ev
15:15.34DEFCON_we(you and me) actually talked alot about ev
15:15.41DEFCON_and programming in general
15:16.13DEFCON_i remember that you were playing around/learning the openGL and stuff
15:16.14MaloeranYes, I remember. I'm sorry it took me a while for the memories to resurface
15:16.30DEFCON_i can imagin :)
15:16.46MaloeranI think the mind may have pushed these memories far back, it was not always overly pleasant
15:16.46DEFCON_you were creating landscapes and stuff
15:16.56DEFCON_why not?
15:17.28DEFCON_my involvement in brl-cad : http://www.wazig.be/_dev/xor_text
15:17.32MaloeranMostly, it was the "duty" of having to do some constant work on a piece of software that I wrote as a quick experiment and it grew out of hands
15:17.42DEFCON_haha
15:17.47MaloeranThe code design sure was horrible, no planning whatsoever, just experiements pilling up
15:17.54Maloeranexperiments* too
15:18.03DEFCON_i thought u wanted to create a better imperial conflict
15:18.04DEFCON_:)
15:18.34MaloeranYes yes... :) Originally, it still was just an experiment, something quickly put together an afternoon
15:18.50DEFCON_haha
15:18.51DEFCON_rly
15:18.52MaloeranThen people started registering, discussing it, asking for features, and you can guess the rest
15:18.58DEFCON_indeed
15:18.58DEFCON_:)
15:19.05DEFCON_still, it works great
15:19.18DEFCON_and ppl still play it after 5 years
15:20.01MaloeranIt's rather nice to see that actually. Would you happen to know if anyone ever redesigned... hum, the whole code? :)
15:21.02DEFCON_i know that yes
15:21.07DEFCON_no it didn't happen
15:21.18DEFCON_we are still using your code
15:21.35DEFCON_but over the years our "Maincoder" has made several changes
15:21.44DEFCON_*little changes
15:21.57MaloeranShould I guess that you are that person?
15:22.15DEFCON_wrong
15:22.25DEFCON_i wish i knew C that good
15:22.31DEFCON_but i'm still a vb.net person
15:22.43MaloeranTsk :), all right
15:22.56DEFCON_:)
15:24.04MaloeranI don't think I want to drop by and say "Hi", I'm a bit ashamed of how I burned out and disappeared
15:25.29DEFCON_aargh
15:25.37DEFCON_that REALLY doesn't matter
15:25.50DEFCON_ppl there would love to hear something from you
15:26.05DEFCON_they still refer to you as their god :)
15:26.43MaloeranYes, a friend googled my name some time ago and told me of that... *shivers* :)
15:27.00DEFCON_haha :)
15:28.19MaloeranSo how has life been for you and Daydreamer since these days?
15:28.58DEFCON_i finished college(in belgium) and now i work as a developper
15:29.06DEFCON_daydreamer is now a history teacher
15:29.09MaloeranI chatted with DD briefly many months ago, I kept in touch with spooky3do for a long time
15:29.17MaloeranVery nice
15:29.29DEFCON_but i didn't see him for a long long time
15:29.44DEFCON_spooky3do yeah i remember him
15:29.45DEFCON_:)
15:30.47MaloeranHe used to come on Efnet where we chatted frequently ( not so much of the old EV days ), until last month. I don't suppose you know where to catch him?
15:31.42DEFCON_we tracked you down, didn't we
15:31.55DEFCON_so i guess one could track him down 2 :)
15:32.17DEFCON_but no, i don't know where to find him immediately
15:32.30Maloeran:) All right, I was just wondering
15:33.27DEFCON_:)
15:37.01DEFCON_is he german?
15:38.02MaloeranYes he is
15:38.43DEFCON_http://ic-wiki.com/index.php?title=IC_Map_Generator
15:39.46MaloeranEh, IC was kind of hard to play without that kind of tool, I assume they fixed that since then
15:39.56DEFCON_when i google "spooky3do" i only find old logs of him playing games are making tools
15:40.00DEFCON_no Maloeran
15:40.05DEFCON_it's still the same map
15:40.14DEFCON_no generator, no ..
15:40.21DEFCON_still very hard to play
15:40.21DEFCON_:(
15:40.22MaloeranOuch, what a shame
15:40.27DEFCON_true
15:40.58MaloeranWriting an online game was so amazingly easy, that part was rather interesting
15:41.08MaloeranIn comparison to dealing with computational fluid dynamics anyway
15:42.18DEFCON_haha
15:42.20DEFCON_indeed
15:43.00``Erikheh
15:43.03``Erikmorning, mal :)
15:43.07DEFCON_brlcad, rayforce is way to advanced for me
15:43.12MaloeranHey Erik
15:43.12DEFCON_,... btw
15:43.51DEFCON_:)
15:43.57Maloeran:) I think Mark want to try selling something to Disney first
15:44.05MaloeranHe's meeting them on December 17th
15:44.13``Erikof course, he wants closed source and money in his pocket
15:44.37``Erikand if you get some of that $'s, too, that'd be gnarly
15:44.57MaloeranWell, I suppose I will, I hold the copyright and control the patents...
15:45.05DEFCON_haha smart :)
15:46.11DEFCON_:)
15:46.20``Erikhahaha
15:46.23DEFCON_haha
15:46.38``Erikjust think, I could be ponying up $'s for a fancy opengl ectoverse instead of paying evil blizzard/vivendi for wow!
15:46.47DEFCON_he could have made some money off of ev yes
15:47.08DEFCON_ev is web based
15:47.11DEFCON_no opengl
15:47.17``Erikin its current invocation, yes
15:47.19DEFCON_but hell, that would be soo cool
15:47.27MaloeranThere was an opengl client at some point, to explore the map
15:47.32DEFCON_yes
15:47.37DEFCON_it still exists
15:47.40``Erikbut even web based, if you wan to go to the darkside, um
15:47.42DEFCON_i still use it
15:47.45DEFCON_:)
15:47.48``Erikkrissa was doing webstart opengl apps for a bit
15:48.21MaloeranWriting web stuff these days would be terribly annoying, with all this Flash or whatever else, which changes every 6 months
15:48.29``Erikheh
15:48.30MaloeranEctroverse used HTML 3.1 pages
15:48.41DEFCON_indeed :)
15:48.41``ErikI've been learning this "ajax" stuff
15:48.56DEFCON_ajax with perl?
15:48.58``Erikdisgustingly simple, but the interface impact makes me wonder
15:49.06DEFCON_indeed
15:49.08DEFCON_simple
15:49.09``Erikno, php on the back end, planning on moving to a lithp DSO or something
15:49.11DEFCON_ah
15:49.22MaloeranAs for OpenGL based software, people tend to have high expectations regarding 3d graphics and related art
15:49.32DEFCON_true
15:49.40``Erikbut they didn't in '97! woulda been the perfect time to break in :D
15:49.45DEFCON_:)
15:49.52``Erikand, uh
15:50.01``Erikhave you seen wow? peoples expectations aren't THAT high, dude
15:50.02DEFCON_mal would be rich now :)
15:50.14DEFCON_just make ppl addicted
15:50.19``Erikthe noisy ones who whine about 3d quality are the .5% of consumers called "hardcore gamers"
15:50.30DEFCON_or chineese
15:50.34Maloeran'97? Ah, '92 would have been perfect!  You could buy games like Raptor on the shelves, software that I wrote a "clone" of in 3 days in a rush for fun
15:50.47DEFCON_hahaaa
15:50.57``Erikyeah
15:51.05DEFCON_kill that market :)
15:51.09``ErikI remember the days when you could have something fun and kinda impressive in a day or two in asm
15:51.30DEFCON_those times are over
15:51.32DEFCON_:(
15:51.38``Erikthe languages haven't kept pace with the expectations :( thus my renewed interest in lithp
15:51.56MaloeranWell Erik, if you get some good idea for a fun project, I could use something much lighter than CFD to relax my mind on
15:52.23``ErikI remember when I was dorking with an fps, getting a reasonably nifty algorithm from aav and coding it in scheme at 'good' framerates in an hour or two
15:52.39DEFCON_http://lithp-systems.websystems.nl/ ?
15:53.02``Erikwell, I have a few fun ideas, but they tend to be revolving around capitolizing on web based things these days
15:53.50DEFCON_i'm starting to dislike this channel
15:53.51``Eriklow fruit markets need trivial delivery and upgrade paths, and the web shit offers that... and I'd like to make my living working in my basement in my underwear O.o :D
15:53.59MaloeranHow so, DEFCON_?
15:54.02DEFCON_u guys make me feel dumb
15:54.02DEFCON_:)
15:54.02``Erikcuz I said web? :D or capitolize?
15:54.24``Erikheh, sorry, got a couple heavy hitting geeks going...
15:54.30DEFCON_true :)
15:54.37``Erikwere you here when starseeker was talking provability theory?
15:54.39DEFCON_few of the best here
15:55.00MaloeranEh well, we may have more experience too, I vaguely remember you were younger
15:55.16DEFCON_at the end of my college, i had 93% on mathematics and 96% on software
15:55.24DEFCON_and u guys make me feel dumb
15:55.24DEFCON_:)
15:55.43DEFCON_i'm only 23 yo now :)
15:55.45``Erikthe cs/math/physics in college was a cakewalk
15:55.53DEFCON_true
15:55.57MaloeranErik started coding before I was born, I'm 24
15:56.06DEFCON_true :)
15:56.06``Eriksummer of '83 I think
15:56.22``Erikmy dad brought home a shiney new coleco adam, and it had a basic interpreter built right in
15:56.22MaloeranOh darn, I was born first then
15:56.38DEFCON_haha, i didn't
15:56.49``Erikand it's not like you could run down to kmart or eb and buy games back then
15:57.06DEFCON_maybe i should leave vb.net for what it is and set my mind 100% on C
15:57.16``Erikso my dad ordered a book called "games apples play" or something that was all basic listings for the appleII
15:57.22``Erikand I started portin' :D
15:57.29DEFCON_sweet :)
15:57.37MaloeranDefcon, I think that would be great, but don't use EV as learning material :)
15:57.37DEFCON_i remember my first game
15:57.42``Erikindeed
15:57.55DEFCON_no Maloeran, ``Erik told me that before :)
15:57.58``Erikmal was learning :D
15:58.03DEFCON_indeed :)
15:58.13``Erikimpressive output for what the architecture and style speaks to
15:58.26MaloeranMal was also writing code as fast as he could without any planning, I was not *that* bad at the point, if I wanted to
15:58.44``Erik<-- tends to bog down in the academics of perfection :(
15:59.31DEFCON_haha :)
15:59.38``Erikand in honing that art, I've become adept at creating some of the ugliest crap ever :D
15:59.47``ErikI mean, look what I did to twingys libtie last night
15:59.58DEFCON_what?
16:00.18DEFCON_btw: u should sleep at night
16:00.18``Erikheh, lemme find the URL with diffs
16:00.20DEFCON_k
16:00.32``Eriklast night being around 5:30pm
16:00.41DEFCON_ohw
16:00.44DEFCON_ok then
16:00.46``Erikhttp://brlcad.cvs.sourceforge.net/brlcad/brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/
16:01.24DEFCON_what should i see?
16:01.43``Erikum
16:02.09``Erikpreprocessor symbol manging to permit multiple execution paths in the same binary object from the same source code
16:02.10MaloeranDegenerate triangles? I had to filter out these as well
16:02.43PrezKennedyDo degenerate triangles have 4 sides?
16:02.48``Eriktwo copies of libtie now exist in libtie.so, one built for float and one for double... and it "just kinda picks the right one"
16:02.59DEFCON_ah
16:03.11DEFCON_anyway, i'm going home now, search a decend C compiler
16:03.19``Erikwe mostly use gcc
16:03.23DEFCON_k
16:03.23DEFCON_tnx
16:03.24DEFCON_:)
16:03.31DEFCON_i'll c you guys tomorrow
16:03.35DEFCON_maybe this evening
16:03.37``Erikit's even available on windows as "cygwin" or "msys" or "mingw32" or "djgpp"
16:03.43MaloeranSee you later, defcon, it was nice to se you again
16:03.50DEFCON_it sure was Maloeran
16:03.50Maloeransee* too
16:03.53DEFCON_:)
16:04.18``Erikalso;
16:05.03MaloeranOh. :)
16:05.12MaloeranSo Erik, any development on your fun projects? I really need something else than work these days
16:05.19``Erikum
16:05.24DEFCON_<PROTECTED>
16:05.24DEFCON_$100 worth of heroine, a dozen bags
16:05.29DEFCON_= jab ?
16:05.30DEFCON_lol
16:05.31DEFCON_cya
16:05.40``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/ajax/hi.html
16:05.54``Erikthe tiniest kernel of a seed of an idea there
16:06.16``Erikstart typing a word (english)
16:06.49MaloeranI see..
16:07.05MaloeranWell, it's something I wouldn't know how to do with my html 3.1
16:07.07``Erikfun, huh? :D
16:08.02``Erikthe php for that almost looks lisp-like, too
16:08.05MaloeranDoes it connect to some database? I don't suppose it's all client side with a huge dictionnary, as Javascript would be
16:08.58``Erikno
16:09.02``Erikum
16:09.05``Erikheh
16:09.10``Erikit's ugly right now
16:09.47``Erikthe php has all of /usr/share/dict/words stored in an array and does map and filter operations on it...
16:10.14MaloeranAh, okay
16:10.24``Erikmy next step I think is to get a persistant lisp environment running, build the list into a global suffix tree, then the request simple walks the existing tree
16:11.31CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/ (Makefile.am fbserv_obj_win32.c): looks like the windows build is using the real fbserv_obj.c file now, no longer need the fbserv_obj_win32.c empty stub
16:11.35``ErikI kinda want to avoid an rdbms
16:14.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/libfb.dsp: let vc6 try to use the fbserv_obj.c file too instead of the empty stub
16:28.44brlcadMaloeran: a new cracked glass algorithm in opengl for bzflag (responding to 'something else than work these days') :)
16:29.06``Erikooh, bzbots!
16:29.18brlcadbzbots are almost done
16:29.32``Erikthe interface? cuz there's always room for new ai's :D
16:29.41brlcadyeah, the interface
16:29.57brlcadthat was one of our GSoC projects that I mentored heavily
16:30.16``Erikthink there'll be an issue with people unleashing bots on player servers? or will the server admins be diligent enough?
16:30.47``ErikI know back in quakeworld, that was a "problem", and well behaved bots had a command to remove them
16:30.47brlcadwe now have a programmable interface to the clients, allows pretty much any language
16:31.00brlcadnot any more of a problem than we already have
16:31.40brlcadthe bots already identify themselves as such so some measures are easily taken to allow server ops to say whether they want them or not, how many, etc
16:32.06brlcadif someone wants to be malicious, they can sure find a way, but then that's not limited to bots
16:32.52brlcadour interface is now pretty much "complaint" with the Robocode interfacd
16:33.07brlcadsave for the conversions that were needed to make it work with 3D instead of just 2D
16:34.01brlcad(e.g. they had "width" and "height" for map dimensions.. height in 3D is something else, so we changed it to mean Z and added a length/depth function)
16:34.45``Erikright, we talked about that at the bowling alley
16:35.04brlcadthere's a generic textual interface where you can connect to a port and issue commands (from any code/language/program), or you can use the C++ Robocode layer, or you can use a higher level scripting language (presently only Python is hooked in)
16:35.08brlcadyeah
18:51.20prasad_whoa new op
18:51.48prasad_dr. mike's email addy should be the same right?
18:54.00``Erikshould be
19:00.14prasad_``Erik: know if he finished his 2nd phd?
19:00.21prasad_was on population dynamics
19:00.33``Erikum, he was still working on the thesis last I heard
19:00.56``Erikhe had most of the data, he just had to write it up
19:01.31prasad_that was when i was still working there :\
19:01.42``Erikyeah, procrastination is grand :D
19:01.56``ErikI d'no if he's actually worked on it
19:02.30MaloeranOh, prasad_ is back among the #brlcad population :)
19:02.47prasad_hey mal
19:02.56prasad_how's progress on real time rt?
19:02.59``Erikwouldn't blame him if he didn't, I mean, job with a new exciting area, hell of a commute, wife and two kids... I can't imagine him sitting around bored
19:03.14MaloeranAnd I just realized I have no idea whatsoever if there's a difference between "among" and "amongst"
19:03.39Maloeranprasad_, I have been on computational fluid dynamics or in Australia lately, but Mark from Survice is supposed to talk with Disney soon
19:03.59prasad_pixar?
19:04.16prasad_following the footsteps of hiro nakamura? :P
19:04.16MaloeranYes, for Renderman probably
19:04.32prasad_masi oka did fluid dynamics for pixar
19:04.36prasad_before he joined heroes
19:04.46MaloeranOh, the CFD and Disney are unrelated
19:04.51prasad_i'll be expecting mal to be in heroes season 4
19:04.52prasad_;)
19:05.11prasad_oh booo :(
19:05.25``Erik(disney is a major reason the current us copyright laws are so fucked up...  the "mickeymouse" laws)
19:05.26``Erik:D
19:05.33prasad_so what happened with ur ray tracer?
19:05.37prasad_is it open sourced now?
19:05.43``Erik"ur"? I should backhand you, boy
19:06.12MaloeranNot yet, I think Mark want to try to get something from Disney and probably otherrs first
19:06.20Maloeranothers*
19:06.23``Erik(rt->disney, cfd->gvt)
19:07.47``Erikjjuusstt  ttuurrnn  ooffff  eecchhoo
19:08.53prasad_(flash intensive) u guys seen this?
19:08.53prasad_http://www.iedvigilance.com/index_fl.html
19:09.16``Erikbuy a mac, save the 64b linux for the server room :D
19:09.19prasad_crysis mod for ied detection training
19:10.21``Erikheh
19:12.29``Erikadd up the bytes consumed, iterations per second and cache damage from doing that... :) or try it and see if it's faster O.o
19:14.43MaloeranIt's technically faster, but I think I should begin to compromise my optimisation principles... when anhiliating code readability for a 0.2% gain
19:17.58``Erikall design tradeoffs *shrug*
19:18.36brlcadMaloeran: there's not really a difference (among vs amongst), pretty interchangable
19:18.49MaloeranAll right, thanks brlcad
19:19.01brlcadthere's probably a diff with the brits, but sans st is more common in the US
19:19.07``Erikm-w lists amongst as a variant of among
19:19.20brlcadsame with while and whilest
19:19.38``Erikmy dad tends to use the -st forms O.o it's annoying :D
19:19.41brlcadjust an older english form
19:19.55Maloeran*nods* Okay
19:20.21archivistus brits use the whole words
19:20.55alex_joniarchivist: and sometimes even the correct form of them
19:21.01brlcadprasad_: what's the point of the link?
19:21.02``Erikyou brits and your extra letters and wrong letters
19:21.11brlcadthe ied description?
19:21.57archivistyou yanks and spelin /me blames Dewey
19:22.07``Erikhttp://dag.wieers.com/personal/docs/spelling.txt   <-- american brilliance to FIX that damn nasty language *cough* er, wait, no, wait a minute O:-)
19:22.21brlcadthe screen rotation on the ied explosion is kinda lame
19:24.52``Erikjapanese is similar, extremely phoenetic
19:24.53brlcadyou learn the alphabet and you can properly pronounce every word
19:25.11``Erikand generally monotonal in enunciation
19:25.17brlcadyeah, cept there's only 28 or so letters in spanish :)
19:25.35``Erikhehehe, but there're fewer SOUNDS in japanese
19:25.54brlcadjust a lot of grunting and bowing
19:26.05brlcadhaigh!
19:26.06``Erikano baka kuso ttare
19:26.32``Erikactually, that's "hai", two letters, see?
19:26.33brlcadMaloeran: all the romantic langs are *really* similar
19:26.35MaloeranA french speaking person can actually understand quite a bit of written spanish
19:26.57alex_jonibrlcad: romanic
19:27.02brlcadfrench, spanish, portuguese, italian .. I can get the gist in any of them
19:27.15``Erikany romance language can understand a chunk of other romance languages, just like any germanic language can understand chunks of other toutonic languages *shrug*
19:27.30``Erikand english is a horrible train wreck combining the two *cough* O:-)
19:27.37brlcadalex_joni: actually "romance" iirc, hence romantic fits :)
19:27.46prasad_brlcad: reminded me of SLAD :P
19:27.57prasad_then again slad doesnt do training
19:27.58prasad_:\
19:28.15alex_jonibrlcad: they are actually derived from latin
19:28.22``Erikthey train you to be ineffective, unhappy, and ... :D O:-)
19:28.40prasad_hehe
19:28.59alex_joninot sure why they are called "romance".. we call tehm romanic languages (after the roman (e.g. rome) people)
19:29.14alex_jonibbl
19:29.45``Erikthe womans? like naughtius maximus? biggus dickus?
19:31.00brlcadalex_joni: you could probably find that etimology a little easier, but I'm pretty sure romance is more prevalent (though admittedly nothing to back that up atm)
19:31.14brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages  ;-)
19:31.28``ErikI've always heard "romance language" to describe the latin based family
19:32.07brlcadprobably something useful in the wiki footnotes, but I don't really care *that* much :)
19:32.17``Erikbrlcad, any more activity with migration.txt ?
19:43.01brlcadwhat do you mean?
19:43.35``Erikit looks like just netowrking performnace testing, then data migration and testing... I d'no what all is rigged up on that, so I don't want to get my fingers in it
19:43.48brlcadooh, server migration.txt...
19:43.52brlcadwas thinking cad
19:43.59``Erikdot org, yes :D
19:44.51brlcadonly activity in the past week was me paying the bill, so no not recently :)
19:45.03brlcadhad a couple big distractions come up past two weekends
19:45.09``Erik<-- thinkin' he's at the point where he'd be best as 'consultative assistance' if anything, but eager to inflict horrible sins of humanity on the new machines config... :D
19:45.21``Eriksins against humanity, rather
19:45.42brlcadyou're welcome to test the net performance, dunno if you have any tools in mind
19:46.01brlcadi was going to do some ttcp'ing on old and new for starters
19:46.24brlcadto something that has more bandwidth
19:46.28``Erikthat was my notion, but I'm not sure on the location, and doubt I have an appropriate bounce host that's fast enough
19:47.30brlcadit's down in florida, I was thinking to/from cad or a hopkins host I can get to on internet2
19:47.58brlcadanything on > 100MBit line should do the trick
19:48.02``Erikheavy hitting on cad might get perimeter notice
19:48.44brlcaddone it before to test cad's performance, which this still does effectively
19:48.44``Erikand the uni server I have is fiber capped at 20mbps (last I heard) and heavily overburdened (due to cheap hicks running the finance side)
19:54.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (Makefile.am sh/make_dmg.sh sh/make_pkg.sh sh/make_tar.sh):
19:54.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: update the helper build scripts to the new version variables now that MAJOR_,
19:54.55CIA-28BRL-CAD: MINOR_, and PATCH_ are no longer being individually subst'd. simplify them to
19:54.57CIA-28BRL-CAD: only require a single version number in triplet form instead of separated out
19:55.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: individually (only mac make_pkg script needed it broken up anyways).
20:04.52*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487440C.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:09.52``Erikwow, beer thirty already O.o
20:56.27*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-65-148.dclient.hispeed.ch)
21:17.33CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/ (tie.c tie_kdtree.c): removal of the "bit hack"
21:46.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcadAutoPath.c: remove garbage in preprocessor line
21:47.50CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/tk/library/panedwindow.tcl: For the moment catch the " identify " commands. Every now and then they like to make noise.
21:49.26CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Add a catch around utility plugin creation.
21:53.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/nsis/brlcad.nsi: Do a recursive copy of the bin dir.
21:58.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/ (tienet.h tienet_master.c): minimize use of tie.h
21:59.43CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/tclsh/library/installTree.tcl: Copy visual studio redist files.
21:59.51CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie_struct.h: shuffle and pad the tie_s struct for slightly safer use outside of the dual-path environment...
22:01.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (60 files in 60 dirs): Mods to NOT treat wide chars as a built-in type.
22:35.29*** join/#brlcad kantor (n=bird@82.78.175.164)
22:36.17kantorhi, I have downloaded BRL-CAD for Linux the latest version in binary form but I can't fin the main executable brlcad
22:36.33kantoris not in the bin directory of BRL-CAD
22:44.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/make_dmg.sh: bah, convert the du size to megabytes for hdiutil, otherwise just caps out at a gb
22:44.37brlcadkantor: there's not a main "brlcad" executable
22:44.44brlcadBRL-CAD is a suite of tools that work together
22:45.07brlcad'mged' is the biggest of them, a quasi-unifying gui interface to a lot of the functionality
22:45.34brlcadarcher is another similar interface, albeit more a prototype under development
22:48.46kantorthanks
22:48.51brlcadthere are pretty extensive tutorials on the website for mged
22:49.15brlcadjust follow down the Documents list
22:49.44kantorok
22:50.20kantorto work with BRL-CAD you must to use the terminal, no ?
22:51.11louipcarcher doesn't like my Tcl version :/
22:52.23louipc8.5b2
22:53.40louipckantor: yeah the command line is essential
22:53.53brlcadbut not "necessary" :)
22:55.10brlcadkantor: you should be able to edit the archer script and change the tclsh to a btclsh (or /usr/brlcad/bin/btclsh if you don't want to add /usr/brlcad/bin to your path)
22:55.40brlcadfyi, archer's not really meant to be used by users -- it's prototype for devs
22:56.00brlcadmuch more graphically driven
22:59.57kantorbrlcad, you are one of the developers ?
23:22.44brlcadkantor: yep
23:23.07brlcadif you have any questions, particularly if you're interested in getting into brl-cad development, please let me know :)
23:23.21brlcadnew devs eagerly welcome ;)
23:25.58kantorthanks ;-)  I must to think about that (but it is a good idea), the only problem is that I'm developing two projects and it's hard to keep up . . .
23:26.10kantorI think you know that if you are a developer
23:27.56brlcad(emphatically)
23:29.34kantorI can find you here every day, no ? brlcad  
23:30.20brlcadyeah, pretty much
23:30.50brlcadi live in here .. maybe a few hours lag if I'm coding away or have gone to workout or something
23:31.11brlcadso what projects do you work on?
23:31.13louipchmm looks like it's libblt that doesn't like my Tcl
23:36.59kantorbrlcad, one is http://sourceforge.net/projects/odman/ and the other is  aping http://directory.fsf.org/project/aping/
23:38.23louipchmmm
23:38.51brlcadI think I've seen aping before
23:39.35kantorwhere ? I mean this one ?
23:40.50brlcadyeah, in the fsf directory
23:41.11brlcadyou do know that the original architect of brl-cad was the guy that first wrote ping?
23:41.30brlcadmike muuss
23:42.07kantoryes
23:42.10kantormike muuss
23:43.25kantorI saw the pictures from the funeral of Mike
23:44.04brlcadyeah, chris put those up -- rather eerie
23:44.12brlcaddidn't really look like him
23:44.19kantorand I read that the original ping program was written in one day, or night something like that
23:44.26brlcadyep
23:44.43kantorI think Mike was a great programmer
23:44.46brlcadhttp://ftp.arl.army.mil/~mike/ping.html
23:45.52brlcadhe was rather brilliant actually, and not just in programming
23:46.23brlcadhe was nearly single-handedly the reason why I started working on brl-cad so many years ago
23:46.52brlcadexceptionally charismatic and insightful guy
23:46.59kantorChris was one of hes best friend, no ?
23:47.10brlcadyeah
23:47.39kantoryes and that was my motivation too to write aping
23:49.34brlcadi was looking to recombine all of the various ping sources back into one official maintainership again a year or so ago, I think that's when I ran across aping
23:50.13brlcadas there's a windows variant with special options as well as maybe 2 or 3 significant *nix C variants
23:50.34brlcadall with nearly 80% overlap
23:52.42kantorunfortunately the development of aping was a little interrupted in the last 2-3 months . . .
23:53.22kantorwhatever
23:53.31kantorI'm going now
23:53.42kantorbye
23:53.52kantorsee you latter, alligator !
23:53.53kantor:)
23:54.47louipcerk the last blt release was in 2002?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071205

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071205

00:00.54brlcadlouipc: yeah, blt is kinda stale
00:01.11brlcadbut it was (apparently) really easy way to get pretty shiny buttons in tcl that looked modern
00:05.21louipcwe had shiny things back then
01:33.13*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:12.09starseekergrr.  Anybody in here with an AMD64 system running Gentoo?
02:58.04yukonbobstarseeker: hey :)
03:10.33starseekerhowdy :-)
03:18.09yukonbobwhat's shaking? Hows the Gentoo?
03:30.53Maloeranstarseeker, I do
05:04.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/GeometryBrowser.tcl: go ahead and have it use draw instead of e so it's clear what's going on to new users
05:18.03*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
05:28.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: let tcl and tk know where they're coming from, and don't cache the results of tclConfig.sh or tkConfig.sh so that Tcl's subconfigure will detect properly itself when we're compiling tcl/tk
05:31.29yukonbobbrlcad: how long have you been using autoconf et al.
05:31.30yukonbob?
07:49.15*** join/#brlcad DEFCON_ (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
07:49.26DEFCON_morning all
07:49.33DEFCON_happy hacking today
08:05.36*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
08:19.47*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
12:29.07*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
12:45.42starseekeryukonbob:  Heh, sorry - playing IRC tag
12:47.04starseekerMaloeran:  Great!  Do you think you could do me a favor and see if the latest ebuild works on AMD64 now that I've got the eclass included?  http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77197
13:34.50brlcadyukonbob: as a user or a developer?
13:36.52brlcadas a dev, seven years or so I suppose
13:37.00brlcadas a user, much longer
13:43.06alex_jonihttp://xkcd.com/353/
13:45.00DEFCON_lol :)
13:45.13DEFCON_import Milionair ..
13:45.22``Eriklooks like I got deep into autoconf in '98
13:48.36alex_joniDEFCON_: ImportError: No module named Milionair
13:48.38alex_joni>>>
13:59.29DEFCON_bummer :(
14:49.48*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
15:06.04``Erikheh
15:06.13``Erikso we can start up the 7.12.0 release? :D
15:17.57*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
15:34.24CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/ (8 files): upgrade to the updated version
15:34.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: always build libtienet
15:39.01*** topic/#brlcad by brlcad -> BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
16:02.55DEFCON_cyyaaa
16:44.51*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548747E2.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:45.16brlcad``Erik: += doesn't work reliably with pre automake 1.8 (and 1.6 is the min baseline)
16:45.27``Erikbleh
16:45.28brlcadthat's why it's not used anywhere
16:45.44``ErikI'll back it out on my next change to that file
16:46.07``Erikapple should get their ass in gear so we can give up that archaic version
16:46.35brlcad10.5 updates it to 1.10
16:47.25brlcadI had a thread on the apple mailing list about it, they apparently couldn't update the version before a major update
16:47.44``Erikthen they shoulda updated it with, like, 10.2 O.o :D
16:47.59brlcadbecause the autotools were shipped as part of the base OS, not part of the dev tools
16:48.11brlcadwith 10.5, they supposedly broke them out proper
16:49.06brlcadthey coulda, but it was only like 1.7 when 10.2 came out, and it'd "just" released
16:50.14brlcadso when it was dire  (by 10.4 release), they couldn't do anything about it until the next major
16:50.39brlcadpretty stupid, but there it is
16:54.08``Erik*shrug* autotools version is a burden entirely on the developers, do you choose fugly automake files, or make the developer upgrade automake... I personally favor the latter :D
16:54.13``Erikare you in today?
16:56.11``Erikaight
16:58.51brlcadso long as you cross-platform test it and it behaves when sdl/python aren't installed
16:59.04``Erikayup, I'm working on the SDL/python bit right now
16:59.24brlcadthere is some testing in there already "does it work"
16:59.47brlcadeven better would be to rip out the python part and change the sdl part to libdm :)
17:01.11``Erikis libdm fast enough? heh
17:02.14``Erikand does it handle key and mouse events? O.o
17:04.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: AC_DEFINEs for python and SDL
17:17.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: add libutil to the "always compile" list. Back out the += for those using automake 1.6.
17:18.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (display.c display.h): workaround for lack of SDL
17:20.11CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (7 files): merge in the updated libutil stuff (introduces capability duplication for now, but no symbol conflicts)
17:25.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (6 files): decorate the new sources
17:25.40brlcadfast enough? sure, all dm does is create the context and give hooks for a doing display updates -- doesn't get much lower overhead
17:26.03brlcadlibfb is the one that does buffer processing and has a communications overhead for remote displays
17:26.56brlcaddm does the wireframe display in mged, not the raytrace windows
17:39.04CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: rename libutil to libtieutil, to avoid any possible confusion
18:12.03``Erikoh, I started seeing the Entries.backup issue recently
18:12.23prasad_is it snowing there?
18:12.45``Erikalways with the custom ssh ... never the sf friendly one
18:12.46``Erikyes
18:12.50``Erikhas been for a couple hours
18:13.06``Erikstarting to stick to the asphault and cement :/
18:23.05prasad_flurries since morning here
18:50.45CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: always build libtexture. Include the new adrt headers
18:51.52CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (adrt.h adrt_struct.h): Include the new adrt headers
18:53.36``ErikI thought the phrase was barefoot through ten miles of snow, up hill, both ways
18:53.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtexture/ (23 files): merge in the updated libtexture stuff
18:55.07CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (7 files in 7 dirs): reflect the libutil->libtieutil change
19:13.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/ (7 files): remove duplication
19:15.41CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtexture/ (9 files): util_math.h -> umath.h
19:36.16CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/Makefile.am: make a libtool archive, with SDL deps noted
19:48.51*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16)
19:49.11docelicyo hey
19:50.53CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/umath.h: common.h doesn't seem to be needed
19:52.10CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/bench/Makefile.am: libtieutil is now a libtool archive
19:54.32CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (6 files in 6 dirs): libtieutil is now a libtool archive
20:07.13*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p548747E2.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:19.50brlcadmaybe it's paranoid
20:21.42``Erikmebbe you should point it at an actual block or character device? :D
20:49.38MaloeranYes right, I'll burn the CD just so I can extract the music from it... :)
21:05.44alex_joniMaloeran: did you try to loopmount it?
21:24.54CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (21 files): merge in updated librender
21:26.29yukonbobok -- so what's the latest release -- does this new /topic mean that 7.12.0 is tagged/released, and I can start building it?
21:29.04``Erikno, heh
21:29.21yukonbobhey ``Erik
21:29.31``Erik'sup?
21:30.14yukonbobposting SOAP stories for a near-due website, trying to figure out netbsd audio internals, drinking coffee, eating M&Ms -- the usual
21:30.41yukonbobyourself?
21:31.44``Erikheh, generating a stream of cia messages :D
21:31.52yukonbobI see :)
21:32.34yukonbobso, what's the status of releases here -- is the flurry of posts + the new topic applied to .10, .11(?), or 12 -- what's the latest stable?
21:39.11*** join/#brlcad curious (n=curious@gjv234.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
21:40.54``Erikum, we use odds to annotate a development snapshot and evens for releases
21:41.07``Erikat least in the minor and patch levels
21:41.27``Eriklike the linux kernel
21:42.07``Erikthe flurry of cia lines I'm generating are not release related, they're in support of an internal project... :)
21:42.26``Erikwhich I hope to use as an excuse to get the adrt shtuff usable for joe blow
21:53.27CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h: redefine the plane method
21:53.45yukonbob``Erik: I've got 7.10.4 installed, is that latest?
21:57.57*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@77-56-65-3.dclient.hispeed.ch)
22:01.20``Erikyes
22:02.19CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (15 files in 10 dirs): include path shtuff
22:46.24PrezKennedysnow day!
23:06.54*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:28.40*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
23:45.55``ErikI fucking hate snow.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071206

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071206

01:08.07louipcwas archer supposed to work in linux on 7.10.4?
01:13.39louipchmm nothing in NEWS I guess not
01:18.09``Erikit's a notional prototype, there's no active development in that direction
01:20.10louipcah. so no intent to fully develop and support it?
01:53.26``Erikdon't think so *shrug*
02:31.42brlcadlouipc: if developers step up to work on it, sure
02:32.15brlcadam *I* going to work on it -- not directly more than to get it working (which I did) or to help someone else work on it
02:32.29brlcadBob's certainly interested in working on it, and has been making progress in that area
02:32.47brlcadarcher is very closely tied to mged so things done for one often affect the other regardless
02:32.53louipcI'd like to work on something but I'm finding it all too overwhelming to find something that I can begin to understand...
02:34.02louipcah
02:34.54yukonbobbrlcad: briefly, can you tell me what bwish is supposed to do? It's got some supporting libs linked in to give it some X functionality?
02:35.08louipcyukonbob: looks like it's mged's shell
02:35.41yukonboblouipc: well -- it's not _strictly_ necessary because I stripped it from my builds...
02:35.46louipcI was playing around with it when I was trying to get archer working :/
02:35.53louipchmm
02:36.17louipcoh yeah and it opens up a little window
02:36.18yukonbobI know it's a dependency of archer -- from CIA postings here...
02:36.22louipcwhich is blank...
02:36.48yukonbob*wish == WIndowing SHell -> for Tk.
02:37.08louipcbrlcad-wish?
02:37.25louipcheh yep wish does the same little window
02:37.42louipcbut doesn't have mged commands
02:41.15yukonbobbutton .b; .b configure -text bye -command {puts "ok, bye.";exit}; pack .b
02:43.52brlcadlouipc: well I'd be glad to help get you started on anything that interests you
02:44.09brlcadwhat are your constraints/interests?
02:44.49brlcadyukonbob: bob and I have actually been talking recently quite a bit about bwish/btclsh and their future, related to some of the stuff you and I talked about a while back
02:45.01brlcadbwish is to wish as btclsh is to tclsh
02:45.27brlcadpreloads the brlcad libraries and sets up the auto_path with all of our various extensions
02:46.11brlcadit was only very recently made a dependency of archer, part of making it consistent with the other brl-cad tools that use btclsh/bwish
02:46.18yukonbobnice -- /me had got the lib to load as a [package require foo], but hadn't prefaced the routines w/ proper Tcl glue...
02:47.07brlcadwe actually got it working so that btclsh can eventually go away
02:47.19brlcadfound a way to reliaby generate the tclIndex files prior to install
02:47.38yukonbobthat was my ultimate goal -- no more btclsh, bwish, just a package -- removes some cruft from  the build/install...
02:47.44yukonbobmkIndex?
02:48.26brlcadmore than that, have to package require Itcl and Iwidgets for it to pick up all the right symbols
02:48.43brlcadand to load itcl *prior* to install, is a bit of a trick sometimes
02:49.17brlcadthat's one of the things btclsh takes care of, setting up an auto_path that works whether installed or not
02:50.01*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:50.03brlcadbut I think I see a way to have them generate properly now with a fair bit of configure script detecting
02:50.26Twingyfoshizzle
02:50.32brlcadwhat up g
02:50.53Twingyschool and autopilot stuff
02:51.19TwingyI need to get my hpc account reactivated
02:51.21brlcadtea to the double you in G to the why
02:51.42Twingythey own the license for simulink
02:53.06brlcadyukonbob: as for loading the brl-cad libs, that ones a fair bit more work -- there are fortunately *_Init() routines for all of the libs (so you can load the lib), but have to generate the pkgIndex.tcl files with proper loads
02:53.36yukonbobbrlcad: I've not browsed the source -- do you know how many libs you're talking about?
02:54.34brlcadyukonbob: look at src/bwish/main.c .. the Cad_AppInit() shows the bulk of what btclsh provides including the various libs
02:54.47*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
02:54.54yukonbob;), rather
02:55.12brlcadat a glance, it's dm, fb, bn, bu, rt
02:55.18brlcadfor the cad libs
02:56.27brlcadthen tcl, tk, itcl, itk, iwidgets, and blt for the tcl libs
02:56.42brlcadthough some of those are optional for btclsh (bwish uses them all)
02:58.27yukonbobwhat I was thinking of is just using wish/tclsh, and including the a wrapper for the non-tcl components, or ea. non-tcl lib independently, so one could: tclsh, % package require itk; package require iwidgets... etc. and [package require brllib], which would have dm, fb, bn, etc.
02:58.27brlcadso the first step, which I think I see how to do now, is to get the compilation using tclsh instead of btclsh during compilation
02:59.03brlcadyeah, that would be the ultimate goal
02:59.55brlcadgetting that to work is going to be interesting, but seems doable if the indexes can be generated properly
03:00.23yukonbobbrlcad: I may be naive, but I don't think that's going to be a big deal.
03:00.24brlcadlike I said, the harder problem is making it so package require *anything* actually works before *anything* is installed
03:01.16brlcadoh, I forgot -- the other thing that btclsh provides which tclsh doesn't provide (and is EXCEPTIONALLY annoying when you try to go back to it) is cursor control
03:01.25yukonbobbrlcad: well, there's "load /path/to/lib" -- which is what fooIndex's are all about wrapping...
03:02.00yukonbobbrlcad: ah -- there's a readline-enabled tclsh... could look at it to see what's going on...
03:02.00brlcadbtclsh actually has limited command-line editing capabilities, e.g. ctrl-a takes you to beginning of line, ctrl-e, meta-w, etc all work
03:03.03brlcadyukonbob: sure, load /path/to/lib in leu of package require .. but then that's not really portable and would you want to bloat all the scripts we might possibly run prior to install?
03:03.36brlcadyukonbob: the command-line editing isn't a major deal -- that's just a minor annoyance; and it's not even cross platform
03:04.23brlcadthe windows bwish kicks off a whole interactive window thing that has full edit capabilities, for example
03:04.23yukonbobre: load -- just a bootstrapping option...
03:04.23brlcads/bwish/wish/
03:04.23brlcadhm?
03:04.29brlcadnot following
03:06.12brlcadthe tcl "load" command at least afaik basically calls the *_Init() routine after doing whatever the equivalent of dlopen() on the library
03:07.21yukonbobmoot point -- at this point, there's not even loadable libs ;)
03:07.39brlcadauto_mkindex isn't the problem, that *could* be bootstrapped into the script we run (src/tclscripts/ami.tcl and src/tclscripts/ampi.tcl)
03:07.48brlcadthey are loadable
03:07.56yukonbobsince when?
03:08.23louipcbrlcad: a couple of things I'd like to see solved would be this tcl stuff, I'd also like to make it possible to create sketch objects with text commands... it didn't seem possible last time I tried. I really have to understand mged better though
03:09.07brlcadsushi:~ morrison$ tclsh
03:09.07brlcad% load /usr/brlcad/lib/libbu.dylib
03:09.07brlcad% bu_brlcad_data .
03:09.07brlcad/usr/brlcad/share/brlcad/7.11.0/.
03:09.23brlcadsince forever really :)
03:09.58brlcadever since tcl was adopted, they've been loadable -- like I said, they all have the necessary *_Init() routine that tcl uses
03:10.03louipcI'd like to figure out how to hook other scripting langs into brlcad too
03:10.37brlcadlouipc: ooh, improving the sketch primitive would be awesome
03:10.41brlcadand that's fairly isolated
03:10.52yukonboblouipc: swig
03:11.01yukonbob(www.swig.org)
03:11.14brlcadwe're a fair ways off from useful swiggability
03:11.26brlcadanother thing I was talking to bob (the other bob) just earlier today about
03:11.42louipchehe
03:12.02brlcadmoving the rest of mged's commands from src/mged into src/librt (wdb_obj.c and dg_obj.c) .. it's about 70% complete at this point
03:13.24brlcadlouipc: if you want to jump into the sketch prim, lemme know -- the wdb interface is one place that could use work, and then maybe a new command-line "sketch editor" command(s)
03:14.38brlcadyukonbob: what I was saying is that while "load" works, that doesn't solve the problem -- presently, the build system doesn't know what the library name actually is -- it's just a libtool library
03:15.03brlcadlibtool manages the entire library creation and installation so that it has the proper name for a given system
03:15.47brlcadand I *really* would hate to have some hacked up case table that says if platformA use .so, if platformB use .dylib, else use .dll, etc
03:16.48yukonbobbrlcad: [load mylib[info sharedlibextension]]
03:17.35brlcadhm, that's not bad
03:18.00yukonbobyou mean "it's good! Brilliant! I'll have your desk ready immediately, when can you start?"
03:18.09yukonbob;)
03:18.13brlcadheh
03:18.44brlcadactually I was going to say "how would that help, though? .. wouldn't want to put that into every tcl script we have"
03:19.29louipcbrlcad: yeah that's one of many things I'd like to work on ;)
03:19.32yukonbobI put it in the pkgIndex.tcl for the lib... so [package require foo] will be managed by the single instance for fooIndex.tcl
03:20.16yukonbobeg:
03:20.39yukonbobpackage ifneeded Expect 5.43.0 [list load [file join $dir ../.. libexpect543[info sharedlibextension]]]
03:21.06brlcadhow does it find foo's pkgIndex.tcl ?
03:21.28yukonbob(lib/tcl/expect5.43/pkgIndex.tcl)
03:21.59yukonbobthe tcl searchpath tests subdirs, so if you can find tcl, you ought to be able to find anything else...
03:22.35CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl: don't assume /bin/tclsh, ask /usr/bin/env like a good boy
03:22.46brlcadso two scenarios, 1 tcl is already installed, 2 it's sitting in src/other/tcl/library
03:23.23brlcad1 would entail installing .. which we've not done/finished yet
03:23.38yukonbob1) you'll use the info in tclConfig.sh
03:24.07brlcadwhat info?
03:24.36brlcadif tcl is installed, tclConfig.sh will say that it's library is in /usr/lib or /usr/lib/tcl8.4 or something
03:25.09brlcadwe're not yet in that subtree until after we install
03:26.05brlcadthat's where the tclcad_auto_path() function came into being as it sets up the necessary (complex) autopaths that are involved even to get just tclsh to work on a package require Itcl
03:27.03brlcadwell the second scenario we could deal with by shoving some initialization routine into our sources for tcl, into src/other/tcl/library -- albeit rather ugly, it could probably work
03:27.23brlcadthe first scenario was the harder one
03:27.53yukonboband the problem is what? where to put shared libs? How to find them?
03:27.54brlcadare their environment vars that affect the auto_path?  
03:28.32brlcadthe problem is package requiring anything that's not yet installed when you're using a system tcl
03:29.12brlcadso say you want to "package require GeometryBrowser" (which is valid) -- it needs to know to look into src/tclscripts/geometree for that
03:30.03brlcadif you run src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl, you'll probably see if fail saying it can't find that package
03:30.21brlcadif you run through btclsh, it succeeds
03:30.34brlcadthat's at least the "ideal goal" or some variant of it, but using tclsh still
03:30.59brlcadwithout modifying the geometree.tcl script, or at worst adding a line maybe
03:31.07brlcad*maybe*
03:31.41brlcadi'm thinking something like: AUTO_PATH=blah/blah/blah tclsh src/tclscripts/geometree/geometree.tcl   might work
03:31.47brlcadif tcl provides an env-way
03:32.01yukonbob? [load [pwd]/some/other/dir/libname[info sharelibextension]]
03:32.17brlcadin this instance, there's no lib to load
03:32.23brlcadit's pure tcl
03:32.37yukonbob[source]
03:33.16brlcadbut then we're back to modifying every single tcl script that we might possibly want to run
03:33.43brlcadwith if statements of some sort "are we running uninstalled, source .. or maybe load, else just do it"
03:34.50yukonbobwhat if you had a 'helper_for_uninstalled.tcl' that was called when necessary during the build process that had the necessary mechanics -- ie: could take a list of scripts to source, proc to run...
03:35.20brlcadsure, that'd be minimal
03:35.31brlcadthat's a great idea actually .. :)
03:35.43yukonbobabout my desk...
03:36.11brlcadyour desk?
03:36.28yukonbobyou know... the one you're getting ready for me?
03:36.40brlcadoh, hah
03:36.49brlcadgot it
03:36.51brlcadi think.. ;)
03:37.38yukonbobthe mechanics can't be difficult for this, and how many piece of code actually need this functionality -- can't be many?
03:37.43brlcad~tea yukonbob
03:37.43ibotACTION realizes it's time for high tea and gets busy in the kitchen.  He brings out tea, crumpets, scones and an assortment of delectable goodies and serves them properly to yukonbob and others
03:37.47starseekeryukonbob is buying brlcad's desk? ;-)
03:38.16yukonbobstarseeker: no, no no!!! -- I'm getting a job in BRL-CAD headquarters for my Tcl insights...
03:38.26starseekercool!
03:38.35yukonbobheh -- the rumour is started..
03:39.00yukonbobuh -- starseeker -- i'm joking, to be clear ;)
03:39.28yukonbob(hard to see your face on irc to know how you reacted ;)
03:39.36starseeker;-)
03:39.37brlcadyukonbob: if the wrapper is coded up right, it won't matter what scripts
03:40.02yukonbobbrlcad: true -- but out of curiousity, what does need to be run pre-installation?
03:40.19starseekerGiven all the hobbies brlcad has, making desks wasn't actually totally out of the question :-P
03:40.37brlcadthe most critical ones that come to mind at the moment are the ami.tcl and ampi.tcl scripts and mged
03:41.45brlcadI've not made a desk before, but I have made cabinets, step-stools, shelves, and a bookcase that can hold at least twice my body weight
03:42.14yukonbobto test, brlcad quickly cloned self, stood on bookcase...
03:42.17brlcadcarpentry used to be a passive hobby past-time
03:42.35brlcadactually had another friend who weighs about as much :)
03:42.57starseekerNice :-).  Carpentry is a very satisfying hobby in terms of immediate rewards
03:43.50brlcaddunno about that "immediate" .. it was relaxing because it really pressured me to "slow down" to get things done artfully
03:43.50*** join/#brlcad User731 (n=User731@71-95-182-43.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com)
03:44.13User731hello anyone there
03:44.17brlcadnope
03:44.21yukonbobshhh... User731 is here..
03:44.31User731lol
03:44.38User731need help
03:45.08yukonbob:)
03:45.27User731any 1 know were I can get a crack for mastercam x2 mr1
03:45.57*** kick/#brlcad [User731!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (brlcad)
03:46.06yukonbobwtf was that?
03:46.33brlcadsomeone just looking for a serial number
03:46.43yukonbobah....
03:47.22starseekerbrlcad:  I guess I was thinking carpentry is immediate in that you get to see your project take shape as you do it, but you're right it takes time to do it right.  When I was young that was always my downfall...
03:49.14brlcadthat bookcase I mentioned took me something like 6 months ..
03:49.32brlcadcourse I crippled/challenged myself from the beginning
03:49.42starseekerNo power tools?
03:49.48brlcadstarted with raw unprocessed lumber
03:49.53starseekeroooo
03:50.11starseekeryeah that'll do it
03:50.16brlcadso I had to shape, cut, sand, and attach each piece one by one
03:50.20brlcadpainstaking
03:50.28starseekerWhat wood did you use?
03:50.37brlcadand design the whole book case as this modular thing
03:51.05brlcadthat actually separates into four distint pieces that most anyone can carry individually
03:51.23starseekerNice!
03:51.23brlcadoh, I was broke back then, it was raw pine
03:51.42yukonbobdensity, 0.55
03:51.51starseekerThat helps a little - hardwoods are rough on the tools and the muscles...
03:51.55brlcadsomething like $50 in materials and supplies and $5000 in labor :)
03:52.06starseekerSounds like grad school :-)
03:52.28brlcadit is sturdy as heck
03:52.32starseekeryukonbob:  See what you started? ;-)  
03:52.39brlcadhmmm.. i should make a cad model of it!
03:52.58yukonbobstarseeker: no -- I'm missing somethig -- what did I start?
03:53.08starseekerbrlcad DOES do carpentry
03:53.19yukonbobis this re: desks?
03:53.20brlcadit's roughly 20"x20"x7'
03:53.24starseekeryep
03:53.26yukonbob:)
03:53.29yukonboblol
03:53.47starseeker7' tall - no wonder it's modular
03:54.09brlcadthree shelves, a top, and a base
03:54.25starseekerhow do you connect the units into the whole?
03:55.21starseekerre: cad model - that would be cool.  Then you could model what weight of books would be needed to warp it
03:55.36brlcadall made from pine 1x4's iirc, "rough cut"
03:55.59yukonbob?could you figure out the warp-a-bility via brlcad?
03:56.13brlcadthe base and top latch into each other like lego pieces almost
03:56.23brlcadrather, they latch into the side walls
03:56.36brlcadthat was part what makes it so sturday
03:56.51starseekerNifty.  You could probably pick up a patent :-)
03:56.58brlcadoh god.. warppage.. I spent so much time dealing with that
03:57.36yukonbobre: warpage -- are you talking about your lumber twisting, or the deflection of a surface because of a load/force?
03:57.38brlcadsanding down pieces that I'd carefully hand-picked out of massive piles, trying to find a good balance of quality wood with interesting knots but not horribly warps
03:57.52brlcadonly to have it warp nasty, twisting all around as it dried :)
03:57.59starseekeryukonbob:  bowing of the shelves due to overly heavy books, but the others apply too
03:58.11starseekerbrlcad:  ouch
03:58.15brlcadoh, once I carved it up, warping didn't really matter
03:58.25brlcadjust took a lot of prep work to get it to that point
03:58.51yukonbobbrlcad: re: BRL-CAD + loads -- is that something that could be figured out, or does it have much to do w/ BRL-CAD per se?
03:59.02brlcadat 20"x20", the shelves are small enough that you're not likely to see warping very easily for a long time
03:59.18brlcadI mean, I can sit on a shelf, and it doesn't budge
03:59.29starseekernow we're talking :-)
04:00.05brlcadyukonbob: depends what you mean by "could be figured out" :)
04:00.30brlcadheh, totally
04:01.29brlcadI coulda bought some simple unfinished pine shelves from ikea for $40 bucks that would have been sufficient for what I had in mine use-wise, but the experience of building it was fun and these will probably outlast me
04:01.43starseekerWell, "just enough" for the worst case scenario often looks like over-engineering *cough*New Orleans levy system*cough*
04:02.52starseekerIndeed.  There's a sense of accomplishment when you build your own stuff
04:03.28starseekerConfound it, now I'm going to be curious if BRL-CAD can actually model long term strain-induced warping effects
04:03.45starseekerIIRC that's a rather different problem than ballistics
04:04.12brlcadyou'd have to right that analysis code, but there's nothing geometric that prevents the computation
04:04.38starseekersolid modeling should be the right environment for that, except that as the structure warps you'll have non-uniform densities
04:04.40brlcadyou'd have a lot of prep-rigging that you'd have to declare, like you do for a FEA
04:04.48starseekerright
04:05.18brlcadyou could very well keep track of all that with ray-tracing, though, without resorting to finite elements
04:05.50starseekerwould the way to handle non-uniform densities be to approximate it with a series of shapes of different densities?
04:05.56yukonbob*going to have to have his hand...
04:07.22brlcador break it down into finite elements and run the navier-stokes equations or maxwell or whatever else needed for whatever is being simulated
04:07.55starseekerFor anything except trivially simple gradients that would be the only way to go anyway
04:08.21brlcadi've always thought it'd be very cool to implement something like a FEA without the FE's using ray-tracing ala particle tracing
04:08.35starseekerthat would be interesting
04:09.32brlcadto run a fea without the massive memory overhead, intrinsically parallelizable, no geometry prep needed
04:09.39brlcad(other than the rigging)
04:09.40starseekerThere's a phd for you brlcad :-)
04:10.56starseekerThat sounds like it would generate a lot of interest if it could tackle a wide enough problem domain
04:11.04brlcadi can almost see how it'd work
04:11.13brlcadwhich is what makes it slightly less interesting too :)
04:11.32starseekerTrue, but on the other hand it means you might get it done in finite time ;-)
04:12.34brlcadyeah, that's true
04:13.40brlcadstill think brl-cad needs a better visualization and modeling interface first, then maybe make that one of the first plugins while I work on the dissertation ;)
04:14.29starseeker:-)
04:15.12brlcadlouipc: well, let me know what you need, if anything :)  I can point you to source files, or explain most of the code related to that to get you started -- if you have a small end-user goal in mind, that would help
04:17.37starseekerMaloeran:  are you on?
04:21.39brlcadand if anyone is still lacking for things to work on, there's still the big list at http://my.brlcad.org/~sean/ideas.html
04:22.02yukonbobif anybody has spares hours in their day -- I'd be happy to take them off their hands....
04:23.58yukonbobwas that memory issues for DEMs ever resolved?
04:24.33brlcadthe DSP memory gobble bug?
04:24.38yukonbobyup
04:24.43brlcadno, it wasn't
04:24.58yukonbobis it on anybody's radar, or have a status?
04:25.26brlcadit's on my radar
04:25.34yukonbobnice
04:25.35brlcadthere are just 500 other blips just like it
04:25.41yukonbobof course
04:25.49brlcadall moving
04:25.59yukonbob!Deploy the scramblers
04:26.05brlcadso the ones that blip the brightest usually get hit
04:26.22brlcador the easy ones on the outlier :)
04:26.24yukonbobheh -- are you saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease?
04:27.19yukonbobyou have lots of internal users that come with bugs + "issues"?
04:27.29brlcadoh yeah
04:27.45yukonbobhow many users do you support?
04:28.39brlcadit varies heavily depending on what's going on
04:29.04yukonbobmight you have 50 people working away in front of BRL-CAD at times?
04:31.00brlcadno no, not nearly that many .. but it only takes one or two people to saturate a dev
04:31.38brlcadsince each issue can take anywhere from 5 minutes/days/months/years to fully resolve
04:32.05brlcadand they do span that gamut all the time
04:44.34yukonbobbrlcad: re: the artifacts in that model -- were you looking at the inside of the hub body, or the transition edge at outside of shell to face where spokes are inserted?
04:45.35yukonbobgah -- /me remembers he wishes that mged ran on :0.1!!!
04:45.54yukonbobnice big monitor idling...
04:47.32brlcadthe ones on the inside of the hub body
04:49.07brlcadthat one I did investigate, had a good talk with jra about it too, that's a *really old* issue related to boolean evaluation and tolerancing problems in the boolean weaver
04:50.14yukonbobtough to fix?
04:50.18brlcadthat's one of those issues that is a blemish, but would probably take 5 weeks of effort to address fully -- the segment is actually correct, just the normal is for the wrong primitive (it's showing the outward facing normal of the torus that touches there in negative space)
04:50.54brlcadthe fix might even only take a day or two of effort, but it's at the utter core of the ray-trace library and it'd take weeks of effort to validate
04:51.27brlcadjust to ensure nothing else is changed with near absolute certainty
04:51.49brlcadbecause the boolean weaving is also at the heart of the analysis codes
05:03.52yukonbobbrlcad: re: nice line support in mged, btclsh -- is it supplied via gnu readline?
05:08.50brlcadnope
05:09.15brlcadjust coded up as needed
05:09.25brlcadmged's is *way* more extensive than btclsh's
05:09.54brlcadactually supports vi and emacs binding modes among other features
05:10.15yukonbobhrmm...
05:10.27brlcadreadline would be .. tricky to integrate given how we juggle with tcl and how the even loop processes
05:13.12yukonbobapparently the gnu readline has a callball mechanism that works well w/ tcl...
05:16.12brlcadwell, let me rephrase -- it would have been tricky for the feature jra was going for, which was tab-completion
05:16.22brlcadjust getting it to process the line wouldn't be too tricky
05:19.22brlcadthough I'd probably use the editline library just to avoid rms's annoying licensing agenda with readline
05:23.56CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtienet/tienet_master.c: check the length
05:28.50yukonbobis editline pretty portable? /me sees he's got a copy as part of his base system, but what about linux, OS X, Windows?
05:29.42brlcadyeah, very
05:29.58brlcadas much as readline if not moreso, and a drop-in compatible api with readline
07:47.46*** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
07:48.45Defconmorning all.
07:48.49Defconhappy hacking today
09:00.27*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
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14:07.19brlcadhowdy Defcon
14:08.16Defconhi brlcad
14:08.17Defcon:)
14:10.09CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (burst/error.c burst/extern.h burst/prnt.c bwish/winMain.c): const format specifier
14:43.47``Erik*readreadread*
14:44.40``Erikyes, model your bookshelf, boy :D how would a geometry/raytrace analysis deal with warping? that's one of the big issues with the real use, deformation and geometry alteration is nontrivial...
14:48.39archivistsure is I had to deal with roller distortion in a roller press
14:49.00archivistand the needed grind profile to deal with it
14:50.56archivistits times like that that you find deflection formulas are a simplification
14:51.11``Erikheh
14:51.12Z80-Boyyou need FEM for deformations
14:51.21``Erikeven the most complicated fea is a simplification
14:51.45``Erikwe're still learning the fundamental physics :D
14:51.53archivisthehe
14:51.57Z80-BoySometimes the paradigm of zero analysis is appropriate
14:52.39Z80-BoyFor example I bought a really ripped second hand skateboard which has a crack in the middle
14:52.45Z80-BoyThe question is can it break under me?
14:52.51``Eriknah, just admit and understand the limitations of different kinds of analysis
14:53.06``Erikeven eyeball analysis are useful
14:53.15archivistwhen the job is "roll a sheet of paper under 200 pounds per inch" you need to work it out
14:53.16Z80-BoyInstead of doing fea I asked a guy in the skatepark who was better than me and he said unlikely unless I land badly
14:53.21Z80-BoyI can't jump so I am OK
14:53.22``Erikheh
14:53.37``Erikgiven sufficient velocity at impact, ANY skateboard will break under you :D
14:53.56``Eriksufficient momentum, even... or ke... *shrug*
14:54.03CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/gtools/g_qa.c: put the usage string into the usage func, don't need a progname var when there's a bu_getprogname()
14:54.09Defcongiven sufficient velocity at impact, EVERYTHING will break under you
14:54.27Z80-Boysufficient velocity at impact contains "sufficient velocity"
14:54.30archivistor it breaks you
14:54.30``Eriky'know, that's something I've been pondering
14:54.39Z80-BoyI don't think I attain sufficient velocity when I skateboard :)
14:54.43Z80-BoyI am over-careful
14:55.03Z80-BoyI spend time in skateparks and not hospitals :)
14:55.17Defcon:p
14:55.17Z80-BoyI am not like Z-Boys who bombed through stop signs
14:55.21``Erika marble of unobtanium travelling at, oh, .99c impacts a rock planet with a molten core, like, say, earth... does it break the planet? or just punch a neat hole that automatically seals up? :D
14:55.50Z80-Boy``Erik: it gets stolen before the impact
14:55.52brlcadDefcon: I dunno if there's any velocity a person could be going on that would break the planet .. I'm pretty sure most velocities will just result in *splat*
14:56.04Defcon:p
14:56.18Z80-BoyI am sure however one can skate with such a bad style the planet breaks up just from having to watch it
14:56.37Defconmaybe at 12x c it would break the planet & result in *splat*
14:56.58``Erikmeatbags are awful soft, probably become a nice plasma cloud before getting to the surface if there's a sufficiently dense (like, human friendly) atmostphere
14:58.03``Erikbut, yeah, brlcad, if you're trying to figure out weight limits and warping using only csg geometry and rays, how would you account for shelf deformation under weight? the support characteristics of the shelf would change through the deformation...
14:58.35Z80-Boyif I model my body in BRL-CAD how do I calculate which way I should fall to minimize the results of wiping out on a skateboard?
14:58.54Z80-BoyWhat's worse for human surface? Perpendicular hit or shear?
14:59.31``ErikI d'no, karel, go collect test data to build a model. I suggest jumping off of buildings and landing at different angles. make sure your sampling  is large enough :D *duck*
14:59.47Z80-BoyI'll go to skatepark to collect samples
15:00.18``Erikthe sheer and strain of bones is a pretty complex topic O.o
15:00.38``Eriksheer and stress, even
15:00.41Z80-BoyThe problem is I don't usually fall anymore
15:00.44Z80-Boyif I lose balance
15:01.00Z80-BoyI bail unless my legs get into quantum entanglement
15:01.14``Erikwell, if y ou never fall, you don't have to think about how to minimize damage when falling... :D
15:01.26Z80-BoyIt might take so long for me to collect sufficient data so that the question stops being practically relevant :)
15:01.47Defconyou would be pro skater by then
15:01.48Defcon:)
15:01.59Z80-BoyActually walking is also quite a balance feat isn't it? And people don't think about it as something worth thinking about
15:02.04Z80-Boypro lamer :)
15:02.07brlcad``Erik: that's a problem of just how to do any non-trivial (i.e. not just cylinder holes) shape deformation on a CSG model, regardless of analysis/load/etc, same problem with modeling soft body materials
15:02.23Z80-BoyA skateboard would be easy to model wouldn't be?
15:02.33``Erik(and if you lose enough control that you DO fall, will you have enough control to optimize your fall for reduced damage? be better to just like the 2-3 "safe" falls everyone uses and just have fun)
15:02.34Z80-BoyBall bearings are toruses and spheres and cylinders right?
15:03.12Z80-BoyFor the axles and kingpins I already have thread routines :)
15:03.15brlcadthat's where converting the solids to their equivalent brep spline surfaces wins, at least for bending
15:03.28brlcadmaterials that crack/fracture/shatter/tear are still another problem on top of that
15:03.39``Erikthe wheels, bearings, bolts, etc should be easy to model, the boards body and the trucks would be the most interesting bits
15:04.02Z80-BoyI could build special BRL-CAD friendly trucks :)
15:04.13Z80-BoyI guess the most strength/weight is in space frame
15:04.19``Erikyeah, but under deformation, the material is no longer consistent.. if you put a weight on a shelf and it bows, the density towards the top of the board is higher than the bottom
15:04.22Z80-Boyso if I weld myself space frame trucks...
15:05.05``Erikwelds are often weak points, and weight is a concern... most trucks are cast aluminum iirc
15:05.09brlcadlast night, I was more thinking being able to do the static analysis on the CSG model so that, with a given contact rigging and a specified set of loads, you'd get an answer that says this object is going to bend X amount, this other object will crack and potentially shatter
15:05.24Z80-Boy``Erik: no worry, the weakest point of my skateboard is surely my skills
15:05.33``Erikat least on cheap boards, mebbe they use cast iron or steel or something for some *shrug*
15:05.34brlcadwhether it geometrically shows you that or not is a matter of remodeling and visualization
15:05.42``Erik<-- hasn't boarded since the 80's
15:05.52Z80-Boy``Erik: that sounds like you have boarded
15:05.53Defcon<-- hasn't boarded at all
15:06.54``Erikum, what's the bridge model engineers use? like strut and spring or something? that could probably be applied fairly easily, possibly generating the values from material tables after the connection points/types are annotated
15:07.01CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/fb.h src/libfb/fb_log.c): make fb_log()'s format specifier constant
15:08.24``Erikbut a model of the bookshelf system would probably be a great test case for any work in the drafting/ca{d,m} direction :D as well as a possible cae candidate that joe blow can relate to
15:08.40brlcadI'll bring it in and you can model it :)
15:08.49CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: denote the fact that fb_log format became const
15:08.59brlcadactually, it's not an incredibly complex model.. it really would make for an interesting test case
15:10.08brlcadbecause of the way the major parts fit together with fairly well-known connectivity (some are purely friction, some are massive bolts, nails, screws
15:11.36brlcadwhat can't be easily captured is the properties of the individual boards that are riddled with various knottings but you could probably classify the average strength of a given board
15:14.46CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/error.c: const fb_log
15:16.29CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/ (extern.h prnt.c): constness
15:20.54Z80-Boybrlcad: I put the BRL-CAD logo into closing titles of the video with all the models one after another
15:21.19Z80-Boybrlcad: the open source one as you said
15:21.22brlcadcool
15:21.36CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/axis.c: add a check to make sure we don't exceed available buffer space for the dynamic number-of-digit printing
15:21.39Z80-BoyNow I synced the sound and am waiting for the video to compile
15:21.52Z80-Boybrlcad: I guess maybe it could be used as a showcase video
15:22.31``Erikwood is too complex to model at that scale... densities change all over the place, cell coherence, etc.. best you could do is cut cylinders for the knots and average, I'd imagine :D but just the design type stuff would be neat and a start
15:22.50Z80-Boy``Erik: party?
15:24.33Z80-Boybrlcad: I also found and reported several bugs recently
15:26.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: use bu_which() to find pwd instead of relying on popen
15:28.16Defconso why should i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Modo, 3DSmax, ... ?
15:28.50Z80-BoyDefcon: is Modo or 3DSmax free software?
15:29.32brlcadDefcon: you're welcome to use whatever you like, I'm not a salesman :)
15:30.39brlcadthough Z80-Boy does make a good point, we're open source, those aren't solid modelers making them horribly-suited for analysis purposes
15:31.11brlcads/source,/source; and also/
15:31.38Defcongood point..
15:32.08Z80-BoyClose-source may fire back unpredictably in the future ;-)
15:32.23*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
15:32.28Defconso why should i use BRL-CAD instead off another 3D modeling app. like Blender?$?
15:32.31Defcon-$
15:33.33brlcadblender's also not a solid modeler
15:33.50Defconmeaning?
15:33.53brlcadit's a content creation tool ala maya
15:34.06Defconaah k
15:34.13brlcadsame reason I wouldn't use Maya for CAD, I wouldn't use Blender for CAD
15:34.30brlcadyou use a CAD system that's designed with engineering purposes in mind
15:34.40Defconyes ofc
15:34.51brlcadnot just making pretty models for movies and animations
15:34.51Defconmy company uses autoCAD
15:34.59Defconfor 2D plans
15:35.16brlcadask your coworkers why you don't use maya
15:35.28brlcadyou'll have your answer
15:35.31Defcondunno
15:35.34Defconk
15:35.35Defcon:)
15:35.53brlcadassuming you ask someone knowledgeable about CAD and Maya :)
15:36.03Defconindeed :)
15:36.20Defconbut that one is gone now
15:36.24Defconill
15:36.33Defconso i'll ask him when he gets back :)
15:36.44brlcadthough AutoCAD is only a subset of the "CAD" software domain -- they're CADD -- CAD for drafting purposes (i.e. predominantly focused on the 2D modeling approach)
15:37.09Z80-Boy"The creditors agreed to release Blender under the terms of the GNU General Public License, for a one-time payment of EUR100,000"
15:37.16Z80-BoyHehe that's like Ronja, but on much higher scale
15:37.30brlcadDefcon: here's a rough idea where BRL-CAD presently stands in the CAD arena:  http://ftp.brlcad.org/Industry_Diagram.png
15:39.33brlcadwhere if you know your CAD packages, CADD is roughly AutoCAD, MCAD would be something like GibbsCAM, CAAD would be something like ARCHICAD, etc
15:39.40Defconwhow very nice
15:40.01Defconus gov ..?
15:40.02Defcon:)
15:40.31brlcadProEngineer, CATIA, and Unigraphics would fall roughly under the CAD label in the background
15:41.19Defconhmm
15:41.21Defconk
15:41.43Defconso brl-cad is revolutionary
15:42.21Axman6eh?
15:42.23brlcadthe main/only discrepancy is the CADD domain is *massive*, so it's oval really needed to be a lot bigger, but it throws off the purpose of the diagram
15:43.08Defconhmm k
15:43.23Defconbrl-cad since the mid 80's?
15:43.35brlcadyep, under constant development
15:43.45Defconwicked
15:43.48brlcads/revolutionary/evolutionary/
15:43.54Axman6back when there was a BRL
15:44.00Z80-BoyHmm Blender also seems to be possible to use for Ronja
15:44.23DefconBlender and Ronja sitting in a tree..
15:46.55Axman6Defcon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRL-CAD
15:48.57Defcontnx
15:49.34Axman6brlcad: i may have missed the point, but can you do balistics simularions with brl-cad?
15:49.58CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: bu_get_load_average() has a horrible implementation but fortunately we don't even use it. mark it deprecated.
15:50.22Z80-BoyI think I even tried Blender before BRL-CAD
15:51.17Z80-Boylooks like an unfinished project
15:51.26Z80-BoyAlready in INSTALL there are some patches embedded in the text
15:51.48Z80-BoyDoesn't have a ./configure and build instructions are linked on an external URL
15:52.17Z80-BoyAlready from the beginning suggests an impression that the people who do it have no idea how to maintain software so it's practically usable for the user
15:52.21brlcadAxman6: brl-cad is a massive suite of utilities and libraries, those libraries in particular are used for various purpose including for ballistic simulations
15:53.09brlcadwe don't provide those analysis codes, but they rely heavily on brl-cad's speed, geometry flexibility and representation formats, and our modeling tools
15:53.24Axman6ah ha
15:53.59Z80-Boybrlcad: that's because they are secret by the army, right?
15:54.24brlcadbut to give you an idea, there is a BRL-CAD model of just about every military asset that has been in existance over the past two decades including tanks, helicopters, planes, some ships, etc
15:55.01Z80-Boyhehe
15:55.10Axman6... woah. right, didn't know brl-cad was that well utilised b the military tbh :P
15:55.10Z80-Boydo you also have the Roswell alien flying saucer?
15:55.22brlcadI keep it in my back pocket
15:55.29brlcadpeople overestimate the size of that saucer
15:55.31Z80-Boybrlcad: do you also have aircraft carriers?
15:55.36Axman6brlcad: care to share some cool models?
15:56.19Z80-BoyIt takes too long to install
15:56.25Z80-BoyRequires a lot of external dependencies
15:56.28brlcadAxman6: there's only one "interesting" semi-real model, and I'm not sure how cool I'd call it .. fairly low-detail model of the russian havoc helicopter
15:56.45Axman6heh, that'd be cool
15:56.50brlcadhttp://brlcad.org/images/havoc_rtedge.png
15:57.00brlcadthat model is included (havoc.g
15:57.07brlcadin the distribution
15:57.15Axman6ah cool
15:57.26Z80-Boybrlcad: how was this model created?
15:57.40Axman6any idea how long something like that takes to create?
15:57.42brlcadwith mged
15:57.55Z80-Boybut how were the dimensions acquired?
15:58.00Z80-BoyThrough secret espionage?
15:58.09Z80-BoyOr measuring a captured piece of the helicopter?
15:58.38brlcadAxman6: depends on the modeler's expertise level -- something like havoc probably/usually takes about a month to model, maybe less, maybe more
15:58.57brlcadi can't say how havoc was acquired
15:59.04Z80-Boyis it secret?
15:59.12brlcadno, it's because I don't know :)
15:59.13Axman6brlcad: do you work for ARL or somewhere related?
15:59.14*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
15:59.21Defcongoing home
15:59.23Defconttyl all
15:59.24Z80-Boybrlcad: lol
15:59.37brlcadhavoc is an old helicopter, though
15:59.48brlcadyou can actually buy one off the market now iirc
15:59.53Axman6looks a lot like an apache
15:59.54Z80-Boyis havoc an official army code name for this type?
16:00.07brlcadapache's a lot bigger, and the model is *way* cooler ;)
16:00.17Axman6damn it :P
16:00.19Axman6gimme!
16:00.26Z80-Boybrlcad: but not public I guess :)
16:00.31brlcadnot in the least
16:00.38Axman6pity
16:00.44Axman6so who makes the models?
16:00.50brlcadmodelers?
16:00.53Z80-BoyA secret department? :)
16:01.07Z80-Boybrlcad: do you also have some models of state of the art nuclear weapons? :)
16:01.20brlcadthere aren't nearly as many secret departments as you'd like to think, or as hollywood would like to make you think
16:01.29Z80-Boybrlcad: like all the little parts inside with nanometer precision?
16:01.37Axman6brlcad: says you, but how would you know!
16:02.29Axman6bah, you're crap at divulging information
16:02.35Axman6:(
16:03.01Z80-Boybrlcad: do you have to do 20 pushups in your army office?
16:03.43Z80-BoyAxman6: I am sure they must have secret NATO calling codes and firearms everywhere
16:04.06Axman6ASIO? or brlcad? :P
16:04.18Z80-BoyHehe I just got an interesting idea
16:04.36Z80-BoyI saw a boat with about 8 people catch a wave in a surfing video
16:04.47Z80-BoyThe marines could try to catch a tsunami with an aircraft carrier
16:04.56Z80-Boyor those rare superwaves created by storms
16:05.12Axman6we kill brlcad, steal his identity, take his awesome modles, ray trace them at massive resolutions, and fill the entire capacity of the internet?
16:05.12Z80-Boythen make a video and post to youtube :)
16:05.31Axman6haha
16:05.33Z80-BoyAxman6: no way killing and stealing is illegal
16:06.03Axman6ok, we'll hide him in a washing machine, and borrow the models
16:06.10Z80-BoyI guess the Army must have a special department to make sure the Hollywood always gets it wrong
16:06.20Z80-BoyTo not divulge any strategic information :)
16:07.06Axman6but ya see, if they're like "i'm sorry, you cannot put that in your movie", then they've just divulged that the stuff they made up is really real
16:07.12Z80-BoyThey probably send random bits of modified information about the truth to all the Holywood directors
16:07.51Z80-BoyAxman6: no they come "hey the truth is actually more colourful than you portray - our aircraft carriers can also travel in the space!"
16:08.21Z80-BoyAnd that's how they made the star trek/star wars I always confuse those two names the names are so similar
16:08.27Z80-BoyBoth begin with "Star" and a space.
16:08.37Axman6lol
16:09.26Z80-BoyI know in once of them there were some Jedi Knights with battery-operated coloured fluorescent tubes with internal ballast in their hands
16:10.35Axman6oh crap. i heard an ad today for a new kids toy, can't remember it's actual name, but it was something like "The transforming Dath Vader Death Star something something"
16:11.09Axman6glow swords
16:11.15Z80-Boyand now kids have to carry bulky transformers
16:11.24Z80-Boyinstead of more moder switched mode power supplies
16:12.18CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 2 dirs): finally obsolete bu_brlcad_path() and bu_tcl_brlcad_path(), which were marked deprecated back in 7.4; callers should now be using bu_brlcad_data() and bu_brlcad_root() depending on the nature of the lookup.
16:12.19brlcadZ80-Boy: i've done push-ups at work before
16:12.31brlcadbut because I can and I like em :)
16:12.41brlcadand 20 would be for a wuss
16:13.53Axman6i always sucked at puch-ups, too tall and chubby i guess. always dominated at sit-ups though
16:13.57Z80-Boybrlcad: I go to a gym does it count instead?
16:14.13Z80-BoyI dominate at sit-at-computers
16:14.22brlcaddepends what you do at the gym
16:14.33brlcadif you go there just to guy-watch, it doesn't really count for much :)
16:14.46Z80-Boypush and pull various bars and handles and lift damn heavy irons with that
16:15.07Z80-BoyIf I need power I guy-watch and engage higher level of fantasy
16:15.10brlcadmm.. speaking of guns.. I should go to the gym tonight to work on them some more
16:15.28Axman6heh, brlcad, what do you get for $249.99 from brlcad.com that you can't get free from brlcad.org?
16:15.37Z80-BoyLike "omg... I am lazy to stop and switch from 60 down to 55... I'll watch this guy and imagine he wants me and now I have to impress him..."
16:15.44brlcadAxman6: guaranteed support
16:15.54Axman6but you're always here!
16:15.56brlcadprinted documentation and CDs
16:16.46brlcadAxman6: yes, but I don't have to answer a goddamn question if I don't want to :)
16:17.02Axman6you're an op, of course you do!
16:17.02brlcadyou pay them for answers
16:17.31Z80-Boybrlcad: you are in Maryland? According to the Survice map it looks like you are close to some kind of deep bay
16:17.36*** mode/#brlcad [-o brlcad] by ChanServ
16:17.38Z80-Boyisn't it a river estuary actually?
16:17.45brlcadwhat that you say, sonny?
16:17.48Axman6i always (try to) in #macosx where i'm an op, and it's got 1000x more idiots than here ;)
16:18.09brlcadZ80-Boy: yes, in maryland -- survice's headquaraters is just down the road
16:18.18Axman6Z80-Boy: submarines maybeh?
16:18.25brlcadand that bay is .. the Chesapeake Bay
16:18.40Axman6i've heard of that...
16:18.41brlcadpretty reknowned bay
16:18.58Axman6being an aussie, i'm a little surprised
16:19.15Z80-Boybrlcad: I guess there must be no waves - but if you drive out the bay, can you surf there?
16:19.29brlcadever heard of "Old Bay" seasoning?  your supermarket undoubtedly carries it -- Chesapeake is the "Old Bay"
16:20.09brlcadthe source of "maryland crabs" and "maryland crab cakes" that you can find at seafood restaurants
16:20.32brlcadZ80-Boy: the east coast US is horrible for surfing
16:20.34Axman6they named an STI after a place?
16:20.48brlcadthe wind direction and short beaches don't help
16:21.02brlcadSTI?
16:21.16Z80-Boybrlcad: hey, you have subtropical climate! That's great!
16:21.33Z80-Boybrlcad: "bay leaves"?
16:21.35brlcadright now there's about 2 inches of snow on the ground
16:22.24Z80-Boyoops
16:22.36Z80-Boyand California is supposed to have mediterranean
16:22.45Z80-BoyUnder which they image 10 degree centigrade water...
16:22.54brlcaddifferent bay
16:23.41brlcadyeah, the water is slightly warmer on the east, but with the different wind direction and the apalachean mountains blocking the coast, you just dont' get big waves
16:23.48Z80-BoyBut at least you have the Hawaii :)
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16:24.11Z80-Boybrlcad: the waves are generated in distance anyway
16:24.20Axman6rawww! wtf irssi/screen!
16:24.29Z80-BoyWhen I was surfing, we were receiving waves probably generated by that tropical cyclone whatever impaling at FLorida
16:24.35Axman6anyway... STI = sexually transmitted infection
16:24.36Z80-BoyI don't remember the name but it was in the news
16:24.49brlcadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay
16:24.54Z80-Boybrlcad: I read it
16:25.13brlcadyeah, forgot that it's also the largest estuary
16:25.35Z80-Boybrlcad: I wonder if Britan also classifies as "horrible" for surfing
16:25.35brlcadI'm within a few miles of the very tip of the bay
16:25.44Z80-BoyUnless you are a polar bear...
16:25.44Axman6ok, sleep time for me. g'night guys
16:25.52brlcadcya aussie
16:26.11Axman6Z80-Boy: yeah it's pretty bad over there
16:26.12Z80-Boybrlcad: have you been to Hawaii?
16:26.17brlcadnope, not yet
16:26.29Z80-Boybrlcad: not yet?
16:26.32Z80-BoyPlanning?
16:26.37brlcadbuddy and I talked about going recently
16:26.41brlcadhe's trying to kill me
16:26.47brlcad(via surfing)
16:27.03brlcadeither the major waves down in mexico or hawaii
16:27.31brlcadI already almost died several times on 12 foot waves in california
16:27.32Z80-BoyI would prefer gradually increasing the killing force of the waves to get used to it
16:27.40brlcadI don't need 20-30 footers
16:27.43Axman6best place to go would be chaupu (sp...) in fiji i think
16:27.44Z80-Boyare you an experienced surfer?
16:28.28Z80-Boybrlcad: you can hide from the wave underwater
16:28.32brlcadI've surfed all of three times, all day, or about 40 hours total :)
16:29.01Z80-BoyI have surfed 6 days 5 hours a day 30 hours total
16:29.23Z80-Boybrlcad: I don't think the size is appropriate for you unless you are a surf-learning superhero :)
16:31.08Z80-Boybrlcad: almost died what danger did you get into?
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16:54.15``Erikwait, what? stars and space? in the same context? how very unique and original O.o
16:55.19prasad_``Erik: what lever are u now?
16:55.29``Erikwhu?
16:57.13prasad_er
16:57.14prasad_level
16:57.51``ErikI d'no if you'd be able to find a havoc for sale, the Mi-28 was a prototype competing to replace the Mi-24 'hin', and I thought it lost out to a ka model (which was never pushed due to the collapse over there)
16:58.01``Eriklevel? O.o you're confusin' me, boy
16:58.10prasad_wow
16:58.33prasad_ka-52?
16:59.19``Erikwikiwikiwiki.... um, the ka50, originally... but havoc development continued
17:00.06``Erikwow, mi28n is being moved into the russian military
17:01.02``Erikhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28
17:02.42prasad_WoW
17:03.05``Erikoh, um, 70, 56, ... a couple others
17:06.39prasad_yikes
17:06.48prasad_addict? ;)
17:07.03``Eriknah, efficient :D I play mebbe 2-3 days a week
17:07.18``Erikand still watch all the shows on tv *shrug* O.o
17:12.03prasad_star trek mmo might be canned :(
17:12.21prasad_perpetual ent. going out of business (says gamasutra)
17:12.30prasad_i was looking forward to that one
17:38.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/Makefile.am: allow dynamic lib to be build
17:38.38CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (camera.h render_internal.h): fixes for third party consumers
17:40.37CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: add missing closing paren.
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17:43.55brlcadZ80-Boy: oh, just getting tossed around in the bigger waves, learning to surf -- the water was exceptionally rough when I first went out
17:44.13brlcadeven my buddy, who's surfed for years was having trouble catching waves
17:45.10brlcadit was about right for me skill-wise, I still eventually got the hang of it, and the rush of lethal situations is always fun
17:49.31Z80-Boytrouble catching waves?
17:49.36Z80-BoyI never had trouble catching a wave
17:49.52Z80-BoyI always had a trouble standing up the way they insisted is the optimum one
17:50.01``Erikapparently you've never surfed on a pond
17:50.01``Erik:D
17:50.28Z80-BoyI had once trouble not catching a wave though
17:51.12Z80-BoyThey said I should cancel the attempt when someone is already standing on the wave
17:51.16Z80-Boybut I couldn't!
17:51.41Z80-BoyI put my hands into the water as deep as I could, tremendous force, but the wave had a more tremendous force :)
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17:53.47CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbed/prnt.c: change fb_log definition to match the prototype in fb.h
17:55.06CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/fbserv/fbserv.c: change fb_log definition to match the prototype in fb.h
18:24.48CIA-28BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 2 dirs): use bu_avail_cpu()s instead of the FreeBSD-only get_procs() version
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20:07.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/ (Makefile.am plane.c plane.h): plane is now cut
20:09.17CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render.h: plane is now cut
20:10.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/cut.c: bring in cleanup that was done on plane.c
20:11.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/librender/render_internal.h: RENDER_METHOD_PLANE is a synonym for RENDER_METHOD_CUT now
20:16.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: mirror the mesh hit/select in libcommon (pre-migration)
20:16.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst.h: build the isst/adrt synonyms
20:17.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/master.c: use the new tienet api... sorta...
20:18.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (load.c load.h Makefile.am): bring in the mysql load stuff (kinda) before removing it... O.o
20:19.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libcommon/ (env.c unpack.c): plane is now cut
20:25.47CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: once again, rtwizard seems to be busted. getting bad screen distance ":41.25" processing the -width option on the itk_component(bar) on the RTWizard::FeedbackDialog
20:37.12CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: bring in changes from the new adrt stuff
20:52.41Z80-Boy``Erik: how old were you when you stopped skateboarding?
21:06.30MaloeranI was at Surfer's Paraside near the gold coast a couple weeks ago, but I wasn't too good at that particular activity
21:11.42Z80-BoyMaloeran: wow. So you tried surfing there/
21:13.00MaloeranYes, only the second time I ever tried though :), I rarely could last more than 5 seconds standing
21:14.09MaloeranThe best part of the trip to Australia was definitely the scuba diving in the coral reefs
21:17.52Z80-BoyMaloeran: that's already quite good :)
21:18.25Z80-BoyFor the second time definintel
21:18.26Z80-Boyy
21:19.15Z80-BoyBut we here in Europe are a bit handicapped compared to US or Australia
21:19.17brlcadMaloeran, no not on vacation .. just general discussion about previous adventures
21:19.34Z80-BoySurfing in the UK means who manages to stand up in Brighton is a world champion :)
21:19.56Z80-BoyMaloeran: did you dive with tanks?
21:20.13MaloeranOf course Z80, for about a week
21:20.35Z80-Boy"I would like M1A1 Abrams oxygen tanks, please..."
21:20.39MaloeranI went in the Whitsunday Islands, it's absolutely magnificent
21:21.34Z80-BoyMaloeran: colourful fish and reefs?
21:22.11MaloeranSure, I took some pictures too : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/
21:22.52MaloeranI certainly recommend the experience if you enjoy diving
21:26.39Z80-BoyVery nice, like a paradise
21:26.50Z80-Boyhttp://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef085.html this needs to be modelled using a torus I guess
21:27.58Z80-BoyOops this looks like an alien brain attack from the outer space http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef105.html
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21:29.00MaloeranEheh, most of my pictures came out fairly bad ( not available online ) ; luminosity is low and it's tricky to stand perfectly still when under water
21:29.33MaloeranOr when purchasing in sprint various large fishes, it came out all blurry of course
21:30.19MaloeranThe only half-decent picture of my shark : http://www.rayforce.net/australia/reef046.html *sobs*
21:31.08Maloeranwhen chasing* in sprint
21:32.36Z80-BoyIsn't that Surfers Paradise?
21:33.25MaloeranThe scuba diving was at Airlie Beach, Whitsunday Coast, Whitsunday Islands, Daydream Island
21:33.42Z80-BoyIs it suitable for lamers, this Surfers Paradise?
21:35.11Z80-BoyWhat does red/yellow mean? Supervised beach?
21:35.12MaloeranOne should probably start with something easier, but the Gold Coast beaches are great for swimming or other activities too
21:35.38MaloeranThe colored flags? Yes
21:35.45Z80-BoyDid you go on your own bike?
21:36.32MaloeranI borrowed one on a couple occasions, the cities seemed a bit poor in bicycle lanes
21:37.52MaloeranAre you considering a trip to Australia?
21:38.06Z80-BoyAfter these pictures I think it would be nice to go there :)
21:38.26Z80-BoyBut not seriously yet. Put it into the todo list :)
21:40.49MaloeranThe experience has been rather poor culturally and culinary, it sure depends what you are after
21:42.40Z80-BoyThey have the architectural spirit of London! I want that!
21:44.29``Erik<mal> it's not french, so it sucks
21:44.32``Erik*cough* :D O:-)
21:44.53MaloeranEh oh, I loved Mexico :)
21:45.18``Erikyeah, decent mexican food is difficult to find in the US, and I can't even find shitty mexican food around here :(
21:45.52``Erikor decent sushi *sigh*
21:46.13``Erikand, uh, yeah, yukonbob, mysql... one of my tasks with that bit of software is to DE-sql it, though O.o
21:46.47Z80-Boyand now sleep good night
21:47.26MaloeranMay the night gently rock your dreams
21:48.41Z80-BoyI know some French surfing
21:48.57Z80-BoyPleine Mer means the water is up. Basse Mer means the water is down.
21:49.09Z80-BoyMountee means going up and what is going down I don't know
21:49.42Z80-Boygood night
21:50.48``ErikI learned my french from the germans. I only know two phrases, "Je me rends!" and "merde"
21:50.49``Erik:D
22:02.56MaloeranTsk :)
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22:43.08Maloeranmake sandwish
22:43.13Maloeranmake: *** No rule to make target `sandwish'.  Stop.
22:44.06MaloeranOops, it's sandwich of course
22:47.01yukonbobmmm... /me gets idea for smoked beef sandwich -- thx Maloeran
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23:48.15starseekerMaloeran:  around?
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071207

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071207

00:03.21``Erikheh
00:10.48yukonbobheh
00:13.09yukonbobhttp://xkcd.org/350/
00:15.23Axman6``Erik: heh
00:16.00yukonbobok last one from me: http://xkcd.org/346/
00:40.59Axman6sounds like RSS... xkcd has a feed
00:44.21``ErikI've only looked at rss using firefox, not an aggregator
00:44.35``Erikhttp://math.missouristate.edu/~erik/comics/comic.php  is my dealie
01:01.45Axman6don't use a mac do you?
01:04.32``Erikyeah I do
01:07.59Axman6got leopard yet?
01:08.13Axman6mail 3.0 adds RSS support, it' pretty nice
01:08.16Axman6s*
02:57.53``Erik<-- doesn't use mail.app *shrug* :)
03:05.17MaloeranHey starseeker
03:05.55MaloeranGez, how can it be so hard to get a manager to compile code properly. I blame your autoconf stuff, Erik :)
03:43.23``Erikuh
03:43.28``Erikmanager? compiling something? O.O
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04:51.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: remove bu_brlcad_path and bu_tcl_brlcad_path decls, they're now obsolete
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05:10.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/blt/src/blt.h: quell compilation warning about data definition having no type or storage class in libtclcad when including the blt.h header
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05:18.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: don't mention compat4.h
05:20.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bomb.c: compat4.h is no longer needed or wanted, pretend it doesn't exist .. so don't undefine things it might define
05:22.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.3: remove the RECOMMENDATION section that refers to compat4.h and updating sources several major versions old
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05:31.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: update the section on deprecation with a pointer to the doc/deprecation.txt transcript. remove the old blather about compat4.h and mged commands.
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05:42.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: provide the args for a_overlap() so it can perform type checks
05:46.04CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rttherm/viewtherm.c: set the app's log overlap handler to rt_silent_logoverlap() instead of setting the overlap callback to rt_overlap_quietly()
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06:32.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/raytrace.h doc/deprecation.txt src/librt/bool.c):
06:32.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: rt_overlap_quietly() is now finally obsolete. no longer need the _rt_defoverlap
06:32.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: since the verbosity flag is no longer used anyways as well. apps instead can
06:32.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: set the a_logoverlap callback to a logging routine (like rt_silent_logoverlap())
06:32.59CIA-4BRL-CAD: as the overlap handler is supposed to be silent.
06:36.33CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (Makefile.am compat4.h): compat4.h is now finally fully obsolete. it's been deprecated since 5.0 and with a compilation pragma warning now for several major release. it's time. just let it go. buh-bye.
06:37.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/deprecation.txt: compat4.h is now finally fully obsolete. it's been deprecated since 5.0 and with a compilation pragma warning now for several major release. it's time. just let it go. buh-bye.
06:43.10CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (doc/deprecation.txt src/libbn/mat.c): and then there were none. make the last of the pre-7.0 deprecations now finally obsolete including bn_mat_zero(), bn_mat_idn(), and bn_mat_copy(). they all have equivalent macros provided by the api.
06:52.32CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: reorder the functions so that no declarations are necessary.
06:54.00CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: doxygenify
06:57.48CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/fftc.c: quell warning
06:58.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfft/ifftc.c: quell warning
07:04.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libpkg/pkg.c: use stat() instead of access() (and it's a c89 function)
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07:39.17Defconmorning all
07:39.18Defconhappy hacking
07:50.33alex_jonihi Defcon
07:55.11Defconhi alex_joni
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14:21.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (6 files in 3 dirs): apply a modified form of Pedro F. Giffuni - giffunip's sf patch [ 1845889 ] "Minor fixes to URT" (seems half his changes were already applied)
14:22.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/URToolkit/tools/.cvsignore: ignore rleccube
14:37.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
14:37.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: applied a modified form of Pedro F. Giffuni - giffunip's sf patch [ 1845889 ]
14:37.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: "Minor fixes to URT" (seems half his changes were already applied). this fixed
14:37.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: bugs in several Utah Raster Toolkit including libutahrle and a handful of the
14:37.16CIA-4BRL-CAD: tools
14:41.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/rt/rt.1: apply a modified form of Karel Kulhavy - clock3's sf patch [ 1837469 ] "man rt" documentation tweak that clarifies that the -d option returns zero as the distance when it misses.
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15:08.14Z80-Boybrlcad: wow, great :)
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16:20.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/librt.3: remove mention of the obsolete (and removed) rt_overlap_quietly function
17:15.40*** join/#brlcad Submarine (n=Submarin@wikipedia/Monniaux/David)
17:46.05*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16)
17:48.20CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/mged/clone.c: record Dwayne's wishlist
17:48.41CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/TODO: mention the todo list in clone.c
18:01.37Submarinemmh
18:01.43Submarinesorry for the innocent question
18:01.53Submarinebut around which axis does the rotate command work?
18:01.59SubmarineI don't mean x, y or z
18:02.07Submarine(which is a direction)
18:02.22Submarinebut the axis in affine space... like is it the axis passing through (0, 0, 0) ?
18:02.40Z80-BoySubmarine: that's a great mystery of the universe
18:04.53SubmarineThanks for the helpful contribution.
18:05.04Z80-BoyI also hit the same problem
18:05.22Z80-BoyI wanted to know if the spaces are in the matrix input space or the matrix output space.
18:05.45Z80-BoyAnd also if it rotates counter or clockwise, and if, then from which view direction counter or clockwise ;-)
18:06.05Z80-BoyI solved it by stopping using the rot command and typing the matrices manually.
18:06.15Submarinearf?
18:06.56Z80-Boyand it also sometimes rotates the view and sometimes the body edited - isn't clear to me which applies when
18:07.19Z80-BoyWith the matrices it works all right
18:07.33Z80-Boyexcept I need to use a scientific calculator if I want a rotation not multiple of 90 degrees
18:08.38Submarineok
18:08.49SubmarineIs there any other free CAD 3D tool?
18:10.02Z80-BoyNo
18:10.34Z80-BoyBut if someone reverse engineers the behaviour of the rot command and patches the help entry then it becomes usable
18:12.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_bot.c: limit the length of the face_mode copy into the bizzare use of bot_data (where we intentionally go past the sizeof(struct bot_rec) with the bot data for v4 files)
18:16.56``Erikmal: #1 best move, flathead screwdriver. Insert. Twist. Reassembled. :D
18:52.29Maloeran``Erik, I have doubts about getting down to 2 minutes your way :)
18:53.37``ErikI can solve it in 0 seconds for any permutation such that each side has all 9 cells the same color :D
18:56.24MaloeranHum, 2 minutes 25 seconds
18:56.55MaloeranI don't quite get how some people complete it in < 20 seconds, you have to spend some time to actually observe the cube
18:57.48``Erikprobably a pre-defined starting point and plain memorization of the "solution"
18:58.34MaloeranOh. So they study it in advance, and take 20 seconds just to make their moves
18:58.46minute-ssh3^3
18:59.00minute-sshSurely?
18:59.04MaloeranNo :)
18:59.14``Erikheh, the combinatorics are a little more complex
18:59.15minute-sshOh yeah, different colours.
18:59.17alex_joniway more than that :)
18:59.29minute-ssh:P
19:00.16Maloeran43,252,003,274,489,856,000 permutations, apparently
19:00.21minute-sshuh
19:00.26alex_joni8!*3^8*12!*2^12 = 519024039293878272000
19:01.30alex_joniMaloeran: that seems like too much
19:01.50alex_jonithis seems a bit more realistic: http://www.mathematische-basteleien.de/rubikscube.htm
19:01.55MaloeranWikipedia never lies!
19:02.20``Erikfunny
19:02.27``ErikI was just reading the latest 'issue' with wikipedia
19:02.32``Erikon register.co.uk
19:02.55minute-sshThey had it on slashdot also, but the register isn't very reliable IMO.
19:03.20archivistas reliable as /.
19:03.25``Eriknah, but they are the source of active bofh content, so I dig 'em anyways... and I'm coming from the slashdot page originally...
19:04.01minute-sshAh kk
19:04.15MaloeranEvery permutation can be solved in 26 moves or less... I think I'm more around 100 moves
19:04.17alex_joniMaloeran: /me starts to agree with wikipedia
19:04.24``Erikand there're enough third party articles (both for this and several other issues) that I'm souring on wikipedia
19:04.38``Erikmy solution is two moves
19:04.41``Erikok, 3
19:04.44``Erikstab, twist, build
19:04.53``Erikfor any permutation :D
19:05.13alex_joni``Erik: do that with the light switched off :)
19:05.23archivistyes
19:05.29``Erikjust as easy as doing it "normally"...
19:05.39``Erikjust like this *click* *stab* AHHH MY HAND!
19:07.10MaloeranWe need to time your solution against mine :)
19:08.04archivistall the bits are red at that point so its easy to reassemble
19:08.11``Eriksure, but bear in mind, I don't play by the rubik rules, so smacking the cube out of your hands or kicking you over is right up my alley :D
19:09.16``Erikdamn, I'm gettin' hungry :/
19:10.05``Erikheh, quality of the register... summed up... well... http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=382783&cid=21613301
19:13.46*** join/#brlcad prasad1 (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
19:15.11alex_jonihaha.. this is nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudokube
19:18.29MaloeranAh big deal, it needs orientation of the middle cubes :), it's pretty much a Rubik Cube
19:18.32*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873BF5.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:18.58alex_joniMaloeran: how about a Megaminx?
19:19.01``Erikheh
19:19.07``Erikthis is making me want to write puzzle games. again. :/
19:19.09``Erikbastards
19:19.13alex_joniThe 12-color Megaminx has exactly 100,669,616,553,523,347,122,516,032,313,645,505,168,688,116,411,019,768,627,200,000,000,000 different positions.
19:19.45``Erikthat could take a little time to brute force
19:20.08archivista larger screwdriver
19:20.16alex_joni``Erik: found your cube: http://images.thinkgeek.com/action/large/2108957.jpg
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19:20.29``Erikmebbe some vicegrips to get the additional torque
19:20.40``Erik:D
19:20.44``Erikno
19:20.55MaloeranOhh alex_joni, neat!
19:20.55*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54873BF5.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:21.05``Erikafter several 'screwdriver' wins, the stickers are fine, but the cubes get loose
19:21.07MaloeranNow I know what to ask for Christmas
19:22.08``ErikHUMMMMMMMMm, maybe I should write a little puzzle game using, omfg, WEB TWO POINT OHHHHH
19:22.16``Erikwith a lithp backend
19:22.20``Erikthat would be thuper
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19:23.37alex_joniThe full number is precisely 282,870,942,277,741,856,536,180,333,107,150,328,293,127,731,985,672,134,721,536,000,000,000,000,000 possible permutations (about 282 tresvigintillion on the short scale).
19:23.52``Erikheh
19:24.00``Erikand that's two to the what-th?
19:24.08alex_jonicompute even.. although I suspect it's fairly fast in bc
19:24.14alex_jonihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor's_Cube
19:24.42``Erikheh http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/12/07/c64/index.html
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20:44.53yukonbobstarseeker: whats the issue?
20:50.54MaloeranI'm on a gentoo amd64 box if you need testing
20:51.05MaloeranThough I don't see how a problem can be specific to this arch
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20:55.45prasad1intel dev systems are a bunch of bricks
20:55.58prasad1four systems, all fail to boot
20:55.59prasad1:(
21:02.58starseekerMaloeran:  It has to do with the paths being chosen for libraries
21:03.16starseekerMaloeran:  Have you ever tried the gentoo ebuild in bugzilla?
21:03.49starseekeryukonbob:  Things keep getting named lib when they're supposed to be named lib64 (or something like that)
21:04.10MaloeranI haven't tried, I tend to install manually whenever portage doesn't just work directly and instantly
21:04.20Maloeran( Masked keywords or whatever, it likes to complain a lot )
21:06.16yukonbobstarseeker: lib vs lib64 -- is this for the paths? (ie: /usr/local/lib/foo.so or /usr/local/lib64/foo.so ?)
21:08.59Z80-BoyDo you know what I should put into a vegetables soup that tastes bland?
21:09.11yukonbobpotatoes
21:09.14Z80-BoyI boiled just vegetables from the "vegetable soup" pack
21:09.17starseekeryukonbob:  yes
21:09.24MaloeranCumin
21:09.40starseekerOh :-)
21:09.40yukonbobZ80-Boy: oh -- for a soup that's bland, not something bland to put into the soup ;)
21:09.44yukonbobcelery
21:09.54starseekerMaloeran:  Do you have a /usr/local/portage overlay?
21:10.16Z80-BoySalt?
21:10.41Z80-BoyI put a whole onion in and fried a bit all the vegetables
21:10.43starseekerThis ebuild SHOULD work smoothly.  The path issue on AMD64 seems to be the remaining annoyance
21:10.46Z80-BoyI put cumin there
21:11.11Z80-BoyNot only my BRL-CAD video is out of sync because the encoder doesn't work properly...
21:11.15yukonbobstarseeker: you must have an $ARCH variable or similar to test + adjust ./configure args accordingly, no?
21:11.18Z80-BoyBut my soup also tastes *BLAND*!
21:11.28Z80-BoyThe ultimate doom is impeding on me!
21:11.37starseekeryukonbob:  Never tried that - that's an idea.
21:13.03Z80-BoyI just put an egg into it
21:13.12starseekerHmm - ARCH isn't showing anything...
21:14.14starseekerI think the ARCH detection stuff is built into portage - at least, most of the ebuilds I've seen never do platform specific testing
21:14.37yukonbobif you don't have such a var (I'd be surprised if there not _something_ like it), you could use dmesg and parse that?
21:15.08yukonbobstarseeker: if the ARCH stuff is buildin, you must have a way to query it though..
21:15.21starseekerprobably
21:15.58starseekerI don't know if it can "fake it" properly for a build though - the real test for this issue is to see whether an AMD64 system can load mged after the ebuild installs it
21:16.11starseekerIt seems to have to do with what paths tcl is looking in
21:17.40yukonbob~tea Tcl
21:17.40ibotACTION realizes it's time for high tea and gets busy in the kitchen.  He brings out tea, crumpets, scones and an assortment of delectable goodies and serves them properly to Tcl and others
21:18.44``Erikbots on crack, wee
21:19.08archivisthmm I should have a tea module in my bot (especially as its named the_wench)
21:20.06starseekerAh well - once 7.12 comes out there should be another round of interest
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21:29.19``ErikI thought wenches served beer or mead, not tea
21:29.19archivistits had a !wench beer command for ages
21:35.56yukonbobstarseeker: is this box you're working on your own personal machine?
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21:56.53starseekeryukonbob:  Yes
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071208

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071208

01:42.14*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
03:22.47archivisthehe about time too
04:49.11yukonbobfor what definition of "ban"?
05:09.50Axman6hmm, i think that brl-cad is just too fast for me. i need something more like http://labs.flog.co.nz/raytracer/
06:36.51yukonbobnice -- it just crashed my firefox
07:26.39Axman6heh
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14:00.03``Erikdidn't crash mine :D but anything other than th 20x20 view takes long enough to trigger the 'script not completed, terminate?" dialog
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17:57.55*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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19:07.00IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/     <---7.11.0
19:09.45IriX64louipc, thanks for the vm link, still haven't played with it though
19:09.55IriX64but i have it
19:11.38IriX64louipc is redhat 5.0 too old to install on that thing?
19:17.57brlcadah, such a good feeling to code for hours and then have it compile cleanly and work all on the first try
19:18.59IriX64heh yea :)
19:20.02brlcadso IriX64, you really got 7.11.0 to compile or you just messed with 7.8.0's version numbers? :)
19:20.30brlcadit should be getting better on windows, bob's been making a lot of tweaks
19:21.01IriX64actual compile brlcad no edit happines with the version :)
19:21.20IriX64i'm staring at it right now
19:22.12brlcaddid you have to change anything to get it to work?
19:22.49IriX64not code, but the build stuff i played with, thought i pasted what i did to makefile.am.
19:23.08IriX64oh and i have that funny bu_bomb issue i mentioned
19:23.49IriX64and finally i added -lXft to X_LIBS
19:24.00IriX64that allows a build
19:27.26IriX64guess i could paste the mged about screen on the blog, gimmme a minute
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19:30.56IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/    <--- there you go
21:40.18Twingyhttp://safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/images/images-251-300/photo270.jpg
22:18.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: check for grp.h, check for geteuid() and getegid() -- used by libbu/stat.c for new file permission functions
22:32.49CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: clean up and expand the permission/access/chmod defines for the S_I* defines so we can do the same on windows we do on non-windows. add missing X_OK and remove the two bogus ones for eof and HAVE_PWD_H
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22:43.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (include/bu.h src/libbu/stat.c):
22:43.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: add new file stat routines to libbu, bu_file_readable() and bu_file_writable()
22:43.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: and bu_file_executable(), for determining permissions on a given file name for
22:43.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: the current user. check the appropriate user, group, or other permission, and
22:43.40CIA-4BRL-CAD: should work on windows too. these routines make it easy to completely avoid
22:43.42CIA-4BRL-CAD: access() as well as a means to improve error checking throughout.
22:53.22CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/wdb_obj.c: don't use access, use the new bu_file_readable() function instead
22:54.31CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: remove the access() approach in bu_file_exists() and take stat() for granted since it's c89 and doesn't have the security problems access has
22:56.43CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: just in case we don't have the access() interface defines for R_OK, W_OK, and X_OK that we're privately using, define them if needed
22:58.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't check for or use access(), leave a note that it's intentional. begin a comment about the functions we're specifically assuming are available (the well-behaved ones from c89).
23:03.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't need HAVE_STAT or HAVE_ACCESS any more
23:03.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: don't need to check for HAVE_STAT, assume it's available per c89
23:04.35CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: don't check for stat(). allow/begin slow and careful dechecking of well-behaved c89 functions.
23:06.46CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/isst_python.c: shouldn't need to undef HAVE_STAT, no longer checked (not that it should matter)
23:07.01``Erikheh
23:07.17``Erikd'no why you're dorking in that directory, isst_python is probably going away on tuesday :D
23:17.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ged.c: use the new bu_file_readable() routine instead of access() along with bu_file_exists() when unable to open a new file.
23:22.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/remrt/remrt.c: use the new bu_file_writable() routine instead of access() along with bu_file_exists() when creating the new file.
23:23.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/bw-rle.c: use bu_file_exists() instead of access()
23:24.38CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/ (pix-orle.c pix-rle.c): use bu_file_exists() instead of access()
23:31.31brlcadjust being thorough
23:31.44brlcadmore effort to ignore it
23:35.02``Erik*shrug*
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071209

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071209

00:28.18CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/fopen_uniq.c: add comment that we can't call bu_log here because of the semaphore
00:37.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/halftone/main.c: quell warning
00:37.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/animedit.c: check buffer length whilest printing into the buffers
00:38.36CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/semaphore.c: use mkstemp instead of mktemp since we can (old sgi section)
00:49.44CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/remapid.c: looks like the libbu/file.c functions were just dumped into here. rename the functions to not look like they're still bu_ functions. ugly hacked file. no donut for pjt.
00:52.24CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: wow, there are even two copies of the old file.c function decls, and none of them exist any longer. -1 donut for pjt
00:52.43``Erikhahhahaha
00:53.32``Erikthat's why pjt went back to school for math, not computer science :D *duck*
04:02.21CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: handle null/empty path
04:03.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: geez, finish typing before hitting the send
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05:30.31IriX64http://irix32.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!C456D36896FA7A58!141/   castle
05:31.49IriX64that was with Xming btw
06:48.39yukonbob``Erik / brlcad  -- either you online -- /me thinks he needs account pw reset
07:06.31yukonbobnm...
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17:33.11CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/stat.c: heh, oops -- stat returns 0 on success, -1 on failure.
19:58.30Z80-Boybrlcad: can you do cutbacks on the surfboard?
19:58.50Z80-Boybrlcad: or do a sharp turn and put your hand on the water?
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21:40.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: (log message trimmed)
21:40.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: initial addition and implementation of bu_temp_file() -- a relatively secure
21:40.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: means to create a temporary file for use by applications. this implementation
21:40.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: should work on most platforms including Windows that support either mkstemp
21:40.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: (POSIX) or tmpfile_s (ISO/IEC TR 24731-1) and should conform to the CERT secure
21:40.52CIA-4BRL-CAD: coding of temporary file recommendations. bu_temp_file() presently doesn't take
21:40.54CIA-4BRL-CAD: any arguments, though that may change if needed by apps. it does, however,
21:41.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add temp.c to the build
21:42.28CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/libbu.dsp: add temp.c to the vc6 build
21:44.15CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: use BU_ASSERT instead of assert -- though it's questionable as to whether BU_LIST_CLOSE needs to even exist.. it's apparently not used anywhere.
21:45.55CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: windows have tmpfile_s() .. declare the underscored TMP_MAX_S
21:47.01CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: need to check fo mkstemp() and tmpfile_s() for the new bu_temp_file() interface.
21:48.51CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/ (2 files in 2 dirs): add temp.c to the vc7 and vc8 build
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071210

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071210

01:41.56``Erikhum, http://hypertriton.com/cadtools/
01:54.37``Erikperhaps they don't know about BRL-CAD? or were too disturbed by the interface or complexity? :D
01:55.02starseekerCould be :-)
01:55.21starseekerOne would hope they did at least minimal research into available code before starting from scratch...
01:57.30``Erikhu
01:57.30``Erikhum
01:57.30``Erikone would hope, but it rarely happens
01:57.50starseekerI guess open source programmers aren't lazy enough ;-)
01:58.14``ErikI have a fairly simple program I put out in '02, and half a dozen almost identical programs showed up on freshmeat in '06 and '07
01:59.25``Erikand there're a few versions of "ping" floating around, with parallel development of almost identical features... *shrug*
02:01.42starseekerHehe
02:02.17starseekermilitant ping - retake the forks
02:14.29``Erikwell, original organization standing up and saying "we're still here, guys!"
02:22.55yukonbobanybody seen Beowulf in theatres yet?
02:25.31starseekernope
02:26.56starseekerBeowulf sounds interesting, if a bit bloody
02:27.47poolioBeowulf wasn't very good
02:28.39``Erikthe book was interesting
02:28.58``ErikO.o
02:30.32starseekerCompass seems to be annoying various religious organizations - I must not have a very clear idea of the plot
02:32.27starseekerpoolio:  What didn't you like about it?
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02:36.29yukonboblooks like cadtools is going to give brl-cad a run for it's money in designing squares...
02:36.45yukonbobpoolio: tell us more about Beowulf
02:38.14yukonbob70% on rotten tomatores
02:38.16yukonbob*tomatoes
02:45.47poolioI mean, it just wasn't very good. The animation was pretty cool, but I never liked the original story that much. That being said, it's still alright and probably worth seeing.
03:40.49louipclooks like the cadtools people just like to do things their own way... they have their own gui library, their own 3d engine...
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04:10.46louipcvedge_: hi
04:11.48vedge_hey
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05:32.25brlcadlouipc: spot on reason if you ask me
05:32.33brlcadnibm syndrome
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07:32.53Defconmorning all
07:32.55Defconhappy hacking
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13:53.51brlcadhello Defcon
14:00.51Defconhi brlcad
14:22.08CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (libtie/tie_define.h libtienet/tienet_util.h): include stdint.h for the various c99 standard integer types. this should fix sf bug [ 1847278 ] "Fails to compile at tienet" from James Millar - j_dmillar.
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17:07.16MaloeranI'm now constantly below 2m30s, without studying it first of course
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21:56.50CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Removed a few unused methods.
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22:01.45CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Initial check-in. This is intended to be the base class for application classes (i.e. Archer).
22:03.48yukonbobafternoon, cadheads
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071211

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071211

02:59.50*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca)
06:09.05louipcMaloeran: hey man how much RAM do you have for your 8 cores?
06:35.34brlcadanything less than 16GB would be indecent
06:36.09yukonbob:)
06:41.52yukonbob*org
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07:50.52brlcad:)
07:51.53CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: indent consistency
07:53.25Defconthat sound dirty, yukonbob
07:53.27Defcon:)
07:53.53yukonbobDefcon: heh -- now it does.
07:57.43Defcon:)
07:58.04Defconsounds too
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14:54.37Defconyeah, we have sdsl at work now :) http://www.speedtest.net/result/211011195.png
16:06.44*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@static-70-108-244-218.res.east.verizon.net)
16:21.33Z80-BoyWho listens do dance music?
16:23.35Z80-Boydo you know the Ogg Vorbis format?
16:23.43brlcadwho doesn't
16:24.06Z80-Boymplayer http://netshow.play.cz:8000/danceradio128.ogg
16:24.32Z80-Boynow they are talking for a while...
16:24.45Z80-Boybut otherwise they play bombs!
16:25.02prasad_wha?
16:25.14brlcadnow whether I have a vorbis decoder installed at the moment.. another matter altogether
16:25.31Z80-Boyreplace 128 with 256 or 64 or 32
16:25.51Z80-Boynow they play what they always play in our gym :)
16:29.38Z80-BoyCzech republic seems to be #1 in Ogg Vorbis deployment
16:30.00Z80-BoyThe state radio had a Vorbis stream already as back as in 2001.
18:52.06minutehttp://my.brlcad.org/~MinuteElectron/live/wordpress/?p=6
19:41.39yukonbobhello, cadheads
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21:28.21yukonbob~lart the quiet room
21:28.21ibotraises middle finger to the quiet room
21:28.27yukonbob:)
21:29.09yukonbob~lart warnings from ibot
21:29.09ibotfarts in warnings from ibot's general direction
22:39.32``Erik~lart lart
22:39.32ibotblasts lart with a huge firehose then strangles lart with it
22:39.48``ErikhaHA, recursive implosion!
22:42.51brlcadminute: very cool progress
22:43.16brlcadlooks great under safari, just a few minor issues
22:43.40brlcadIE6 looks way way better, but still several big problems with the bezels
22:44.14brlcadseems the quote in the footer is broken or really really tiny
22:51.50brlcad(and the download link is 404'd)
23:06.02prasad_the footer frame or layer produces ugly scrollbars
23:06.15prasad_ie7
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071212

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071212

00:13.55louipcI'd say get rid of the whole footer thing
00:14.12louipcit's just fluff
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01:15.56*** join/#brlcad PrezKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
01:21.03PrezKennedynot fair
01:21.18PrezKennedyapparently there was one walking distance from where i live now about 5 years back
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03:33.15starseeker:-)
03:34.41starseekerI now vaguely remember reading that texlive was supposed to be the future, but given that they are STILL distributing their system via an ISO image I'm not really reassured...
03:41.58starseekerbrlcad:  Just curious - are there any plans to make the IRC archives searchable?
04:47.09brlcadstarseeker: I've set stuff up in the past for the channel, but to date hasn't been anything worth maintaining until the new website goes on-line
04:47.31starseekerAh, point.
04:47.43brlcadI could see setting something up afterwards though so that the channel logs are auto-archived and searchable through the site as docs or something
04:48.21starseekerIt's often a good way to go back and find an earlier discussion on a topic, or at least I find it to be useful in #lisp
04:50.37brlcadyeah, I generally use my own logs for that - the beauty of a persistent server connection running irssi in screen
04:50.49brlcadbut it would make a nice general feature
04:53.16brlcadI actually have a "complete" log of all my irc chatter ever stated/received/seen, going back many many years that I rummage through every now and then
04:53.32brlcadit's fun to read a conversation I've had with someone five years later
04:53.44starseeker:-)
04:54.52brlcadI think I even have old icq sessions stashed away from the mid 90's somewhere
04:56.12starseekerSuch conversations can actually contain a lot of useful knowledge, advice and examples if you happen to remember the right keywords to locate 'em
04:56.14brlcadpart of my data "archive" that has just about everything that I've ever done on a computer, I'm a digital pack rat purist
04:56.58starseekerAs long as hard drives continue to expand faster than we generate logs, why not?
04:57.13brlcadGB's of spam logs that I used to even stash just for historical/hysterical purposes
04:58.04brlcadyeah, I've been constantly upgrading to the next biggest drive every couple years as I expand my capacity
04:58.12starseekerer ads
04:58.29starseekerAre they up to terabyte drives yet?
04:58.44brlcadyeah, WD has one for just a few hundred
04:58.49starseekersweeet
04:58.51brlcadexternal enclosure
04:59.26starseekerand I thought this was a big drive at the time, darn it...
05:00.06brlcadyou can actually buy 2TB externals pretty easily now, ever since hitachi came out with their single-drive 1TB's about a year ago
05:00.25starseekerWow.
05:01.32brlcadI've had over a TB when it was more than a buck a GB
05:01.47starseekerYeow
05:01.55brlcadheh, hell, I remember spending $350 for a 300MB drive back when my data archive was just getting started
05:03.21brlcaddepends what you make part of the base OS
05:03.31brlcadis that just the kernel, or is that user-space too
05:04.05brlcadif it's user-space, is it just base command-line tools, or does it include a gui .. even for either, what apps are included and what are not
05:04.37starseekerI guess up to and including the full KDE desktop and supporting utilities/libs
05:04.43starseekermight be a useful benchmark
05:05.59brlcadI'd say for a general purpose OS that your traditional editors like vim and emacs are essential, and that already jumps you up to about 75MB :)
05:06.31starseekerpoint ;-).
05:06.39brlcadbase command-line userspace is probably 100-500MB for 'everything' "necessary"
05:06.47starseekerAlthough some might argue with Emacs in there you're getting close to a full OS already...
05:06.54brlcadgui is probably 2x to 10x that :)
05:07.58starseekerOr I suppose you could take this guy's approach:  http://www.menuetos.net/
05:08.04starseeker:-P
05:09.43starseekerI guess as usual there are the tradeoffs between simplicity/transparency and performance in space and time.
05:09.50brlcadahh, he's still at it
05:10.06starseekeryou know him?
05:10.46brlcadno, not really -- but I read about menuetos about two years ago
05:10.51brlcadi think he'd just started
05:11.13starseekerAh.  I'm very impressed, but I can't help wondering if he's off his meds a bit or something ;-)
05:11.57brlcadyeah, pretty cool but exceptionally impractical
05:12.33brlcadlightweight, but lacking 90% of the stuff most come to take for granted
05:13.03starseekerRight.  Reminds me a bit of that realtime OS demo someone made back in the late ninties
05:13.16starseekerQ something
05:13.41starseekerQNX
05:13.43starseekerthat was it
05:13.58brlcadi mean, most/many OS's actually started like that with some "pure" philosophical approach... back in the 70's and 80's
05:14.17brlcadsome in assembler, some C, some hybrid, etc
05:14.27brlcadheh, QNX is still around
05:14.40starseekerYes, but I think they've move beyond floppy demos
05:14.55brlcadheh, far beyond
05:15.11brlcadqnx is one of the defacto OS's for embedded systems development
05:15.16brlcadone of the best RTOS's
05:15.38starseekerYes, they got a lot of press a while back - there was some hope they'd go open source but I don't think it ever happened.
05:15.55brlcadthey went open source a month or two ago
05:16.04starseekerReally??
05:16.41brlcadunless I'm mixing them up with someone else
05:17.02brlcadyeah, two months ago
05:17.03brlcadhttp://www.qnx.com/news/pr_2471_1.html
05:17.12brlcadthere was even a /. on it iirc
05:17.47starseekerConfound it, I always seem to miss the best slashdot articles and get the political rants...
05:18.10brlcadso you pick up on sage without skipping a beat, but entirely missed qnx :)
05:18.22starseekerHehe - you spotted that eh?
05:19.29starseekerI caught the SAGE article, but it turns out I missed an earlier one (arguably more important) about the AMS opinion piece calling for more support for open source computational software
05:21.02starseekerWell hot diggity, Sept 12th 2007
05:22.05starseekerbrlcad:  have y'all looked at SAGE at the ARL or is it pretty orthogonal to what you need?
05:25.32starseekerMeh - QNX is only free for non-commercial stuff.  No wonder it didn't make a bigger splash
05:46.10brlcadfairly orthogonal
05:46.41brlcadat least for our primary purposes, I'm sure some analysts could put it to good use if they knew how
05:48.56brlcadhowdy yukonbob
05:53.12yukonbobhey brlcad. What's shaking?
05:55.52brlcadnot much
05:56.13brlcadgetting ready to have teeth finally ripped out of my head
05:56.32yukonbobwisdom teeth, or other "bad" teeth?
05:56.34brlcadbeen at least a decade in the coming
05:56.38brlcadwisdoms
05:56.48yukonbobhad 4 done at once.
05:57.21brlcadyeah, I got to get all 4 out, horribly impacted, but I'm going to do them two at a time
05:57.49yukonbobsomething in tea is a good thing for the wounds -- stuff a moist tea bag in your mouth if you need it  (/me would have to research to find out what it does at all...)
05:59.14yukonbobhttp://www.tricountyoms.com/surgical/wisdom_tooth_removal.html -- search for tea bag
06:03.06brlcadyeah, the tannic acid
06:03.13brlcaduse them in crew too
06:04.03yukonbob?"in crew"
06:04.03brlcadthey can help anethestize and harden up your hands for rowing if you're not yet callous or if you're blistered
06:04.03brlcadcrew rowing
06:04.09yukonbobah
06:05.11brlcadiinteresting
06:05.17brlcadthat's a new one to me
06:05.46yukonbobget ``Erik to try it out after some red-eye experience and let us know if it works.
06:07.41brlcadI get red-eye after a really intense cardio workout in the gym
06:08.05brlcadsauna can do it too, whenever I push up past 95% of my MHR for a long period of time
06:08.40brlcador otherwise exhaust extensively
06:08.44brlcadi might have to try that sometime
06:15.59yukonbobso I was trying to get the imgs into my docbook work other day, and the only thing that I can get to work is using ps/eps -- can't source jpg, png, gif, etc.
06:17.09yukonbobI still have more I can dig for to see what's going on (/me believes it's TeX not knowing the size, and needing a parameter, but I don't know how to send it to TeX w/i the Docbook realm)...
06:17.15brlcadif you can get ps to work, everything else should be trivial
06:17.55yukonbobwell, I can use .ps. It's not the ideal format for all gfx, but it does work.
06:18.05brlcadoooh, using ps just for the images
06:18.09brlcadthough you meant as the output fmt
06:18.14yukonboboh no ---
06:18.18yukonbobfor including the gfx.
06:18.33brlcadodd that the image formats wouldn't work
06:18.40brlcadthey have sizes embedded
06:18.46yukonbobps (eps) works nice because TeX knows it's size by the %boundingbox
06:20.01yukonbob*done it before with pure LaTeX
06:26.26brlcadyou're using jade?
06:26.43brlcadit's supposed to be fairly seamless for embedded imagery
06:27.17yukonbobwell...
06:27.33brlcadyeah .. "supposed to be"
06:27.37yukonbobit may be -- but atm I haven't figured out the incantations required
06:27.43brlcadgoing by tests from many years ago and second hand comments :)
06:27.56brlcadhave fun :)
06:28.00yukonbob;)
06:28.19yukonbobI'm sure it's possible -- it's too basic a thing to not have been solved.
06:28.37yukonbobThe info just isn't readily available when I want it ;)
06:29.12yukonbobafter I figure it out -- every search I do, every article I read, every conversation I have will contain this info... but in the meantime, it elludes me ;)
06:29.45yukonbob?eludes
06:31.02yukonbob*eludes
06:31.12yukonbob.
06:32.03poolioah, I have to learn latex for next semester :
06:33.08yukonbobpoolio: it's neat. Emacs + AUCTeX are your friends.
06:34.27poolioheh, I still haven't tried out emacs...still using good 'ol vim
06:34.28yukonbob...and the "Not So Short Guide to LaTeX"
06:35.20yukonbobpoolio: what do you need it for?
06:35.48poolioA math course I'm taking requires homework be typed
06:36.07yukonbobwhat OS do you run?
06:36.50poolioyukonbob: currently linux, sometimes freebsd
06:37.47yukonbobmm --- you'll probably want to install teTeX (Thomas Essers distro of LaTeX (Leslie Lamports extensions  to TeX (Knuths typesetting language)))...
06:38.09poolioWow, am I reading English or LISP :)
06:38.22yukonbobT
06:38.23yukonbob?
06:38.42poolioah nothing, just lots of parathesis
06:38.48poolioI think I missed an n in there...
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12:51.24starseekeryukonbob:  Just curious - which tex distribution do you have installed?  I just switched over to texlive after being reminded that tetex is no longer maintained
12:51.52starseekerI see you recommending tetex, but that might not be the best long term option...
12:52.16starseekerpoolio:  You might want to check out Lyx or TeXmacs if you prefer a GUI to straight LaTeX
13:19.59*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16)
14:16.18``Erikooh, tcl 8.5 in debian testing now
14:53.26*** join/#brlcad Defcon (n=def@74.17-246-81.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be)
16:02.57Z80-BoyI want to put a picture on a background of rotating BRL-CAD model video
16:03.16Z80-BoyAnd want to be sure it works reliably even if the model happens to contain the same colour as the background
16:05.18Z80-BoyI would also like to get the output RGB in double format, because then I could calculate the maximum channel value and auto-exposure it so it doesn't get neither under-exposed or over-exposed
17:52.44minutebrlcad: Thank you, any idea when you'll be able to take a look at LDAP?
17:53.55minuteAnd darn, I forgot about the broken footer.
17:54.31*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslc-082-082-074-097.pools.arcor-ip.net)
18:03.19``Erikminute: probably not for at least a few days, he's somewhat incapacitated :) fistfight with a tire iron or something
18:14.53PrezKennedyouch... is brlcad ok?
18:25.13minute``Erik: I hope that was metaphorical. ;)
18:29.31``Erikhehehe I've probably said too much :D he'll probably be online soon, but probably not tearing into code or sysadmin stuff
18:31.03minuteSure.
19:09.04``Erik<Mercury> emacs sucks, literally, not a insult, just a comment that its large enough to have a noticeable gravitational pull...
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19:46.01archivisthehe
20:01.22*** join/#brlcad cad21 (n=4633a63d@bz.bzflag.bz)
20:07.12*** join/#brlcad prasad_ (n=psilva@h-67-103-183-185.mclnva23.covad.net)
20:56.47yukonbobstarseeker: I'm using teTex -- I looked into texlive briefly -- I haven't swapped out because atm, I don't know what the point would be -- I have _not_ dug too deeply into the differences, but at it's age, I can't see there being radical differences between texlive/tetex, as the result of massive bug fixes, for example.. .
22:03.57*** join/#brlcad Axman6 (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
22:58.49``Erika/det
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071213

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071213

00:56.13``Erikho hum
01:10.53*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
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03:44.09dtidrow``Erik: Emacs - the original IDE  ;-)
05:14.00*** join/#brlcad archivist (n=archivis@host81-149-119-172.in-addr.btopenworld.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
05:14.00*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
05:14.00*** join/#brlcad poolio (n=poolio@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
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13:59.42Defconw00t
13:59.50Defconthe users liked my app :)
14:11.12alex_joniwhat app?
14:31.48Defcon"SelfStorage Management System"
14:31.57Defconor short: SMS
14:31.58Defcon:)
14:32.15DefconASP.net Intranet Application for my company
14:32.34Z80-Boylol
14:33.48alex_joniDefcon: sounds nice.. is it supposed to do anything?
14:34.06Defconyeah, not crash
14:34.07Defcon:)
14:34.33Defconit's used to follow the production automaticly
14:34.51Defconwith barcodes that are scanned & stuff
14:50.49alex_jonioh.. sweet :)
15:14.03*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
15:19.28Defconinstalling Visual C++ as we speak
15:35.35DefconAdd common header files for:
15:35.35DefconATL
15:35.36DefconMFC
15:35.42Defconshould i do that
15:35.53Defconi can check ATL and/or MFC
15:36.16alex_jonimfc is quite common
15:37.19Defconwhat does it mean?
15:38.08Defconbtw: i'm creating a new C++ Console application in Visual Studio 2005 for the first time
15:43.12Defconhmm
15:43.13Defconif (!AfxWinInit(::GetModuleHandle(NULL), NULL, ::GetCommandLine(), 0))
15:43.15Defconwhat?
15:43.18Defconis that?
15:54.49Defconw00t
15:54.49Defconcout << "Hello world";
15:54.49Defconsystem("PAUSE");
15:54.51Defcon:p
15:55.36Defconenough C for today
15:55.36Defcon:)
16:03.54CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Added a few more methods. Also some minor cleanup.
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16:42.18brlcadwisdom too
16:42.19*** join/#brlcad TAZMAN76 (n=TAZMAN76@69.88.99.252)
16:43.50prasad_hangover?
16:44.00brlcadnah, teeth pulled
16:49.13Z80-BoyIs it a good programming practice to make a function with 336 lines?
17:01.10minuteAhh, so that is what ``Erik meant.
17:03.05elite01Z80-Boy, imo, totally :)
17:03.16elite01as long as it makes sense...
17:03.24elite01i see no reason for it to be shorter
17:03.51Z80-Boyand have it with a totally broken indentation?
17:04.03elite01that should be fixed
17:06.58*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16)
17:43.43*** part/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
18:06.21brlcadit's not good or bad practice, and looking at just line count would be a horrible metric all by itself
19:09.26alex_joniouch :)
19:44.03``ErikI like to try to keep functions no longer than one page length, but that doesn't always happen...
19:44.27``Erikand "page length" is awfully subjective, I have a lot  less lines than brlcad due to my massive font size :D
19:44.51``Erikcomes out to ~50 on my laptop
19:46.09``Erika better metric is probably if the function of the function can be easily described without ambiguities... :D
20:01.53CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bn.h: remove authorship/origin info from header, innaccurately documents what is already tracked by version control
20:01.54yukonbob^--- yup -- or that it can fit in your head w/o swapping.
20:02.16yukonbob(above re: functions)
20:02.32brlcadless than a page is generally a pretty good metric -- that generally is a "page of context" for most people, re swapping
20:02.49brlcadperformance issues notwithstanding, of course
20:03.06alex_jonidepends on the construction.. on straightforward stuff, sometimes a "page of context" can be quite long
20:03.38alex_joninested stuff tend to really shorten the "page" imo
20:03.56brlcadyep, depends on a lot .. bug a decent "general rule of thumb"
20:04.24brlcadpeople rarely go too short -- but often go way too long
20:04.58alex_joniwell.. there are functions which are "file" long, instead of "page" long on the project I work on.. it's *really* easy to start swapping/trashing
20:07.21brlcadyeah, that's close to the convention in C++ to have one class per file
20:07.33brlcador many other OO langs for that matter
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20:54.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Modifications to use ArcherCore. Note - there are still a few issues that need attention.
20:58.47CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ (4 files): Mods related to using ArcherCore.
21:00.33CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Removed a debug statement.
21:04.55CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/bwish/cadAppInit.c: Minor cleanup.
21:06.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: define uid_t and gid_t
21:07.17CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/tclcad.h: declare Tclcad_Init
21:09.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/libtclcad/libtclcad.vcproj: Added tclcad.c
21:10.44CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/archer/archer: Mods related to using ArcherCore
21:12.32CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: Initial check-in. This provides the interface for dynamically loading via Tcl.
21:43.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c:
21:43.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: modify bu_temp_file() so that we can capture the name of the temporary file that
21:43.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: was created along with the opened file descriptor. this requires ditching
21:43.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: tmpfile_s() entirely on windows since it returns anonymous files, instead
21:43.06CIA-5BRL-CAD: providing an implementation of mkstemp() for platforms like Windows that don't
21:43.09CIA-5BRL-CAD: provide it.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071214

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071214

02:25.34*** join/#brlcad digitalfredy (n=digitalf@200.71.62.161)
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07:55.27Defconyeah
07:55.45Defconyesterday i did my first C console app: "Hello World"
07:56.11Defconso now it's time to make my own standalone multi process webserver
07:56.15Defcon:)
07:56.38yukonbobDefcon: let's see your code!!!1
07:56.48Defconhello world?
07:56.52yukonbobyup
07:57.00Defconk
07:57.18Defcon_tprintf(_T("Hello world\n"));
07:57.22yukonbobhave you thought of what license you're going to release it under?
07:57.39Defconor
07:57.40Defconcout << "Hello world\n";
07:57.42yukonbob?C
07:57.45Defcongpl?
07:57.51yukonbobthat's C++
07:57.56Defconyeah
07:58.02yukonbobC++ != C
07:58.07Defconi have no C compiler at home
07:58.16Defcon*work
07:58.17yukonbobwell, C++ ought to be a superset of C
07:58.33Defconyeah i thought so
08:00.36yukonbobyou need #include <stdio>, #include <stdlib> int main (int argc, char **argv) {printf ("Hello, whirled!\n"); exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);}
08:01.01yukonbob^--- obviously not formatted properly
08:05.57alex_joniyukonbob: you just need '\' there, and it's formatted about right :D
08:06.27yukonbobalex_joni: will the CPP choke on the includes, or is that what you're saying the \ is for?
08:07.13Defcon#include "stdafx.h"
08:07.13Defcon#include "consoleCodeTry.h"
08:07.13Defcon#ifdef _DEBUG
08:07.13Defcon#define new DEBUG_NEW
08:07.13Defcon#endif
08:07.14DefconCWinApp theApp;
08:07.16Defconusing namespace std;
08:07.18Defconint _tmain(int argc, TCHAR* argv[], TCHAR* envp[])
08:07.20Defcon{
08:07.22Defconint nRetCode = 0;
08:07.24Defconif (!AfxWinInit(::GetModuleHandle(NULL), NULL, ::GetCommandLine(), 0))
08:07.26Defcon{
08:07.28Defcon_tprintf(_T("Fatal Error: MFC initialization failed\n"));
08:07.30DefconnRetCode = 1;
08:07.32Defcon}
08:07.34Defconelse
08:07.34yukonbobarg!!!!
08:07.36Defcon{
08:07.38Defcon_tprintf(_T("Hello world\n"));
08:07.40Defconsystem("PAUSE");
08:07.42Defcon}
08:07.44Defconreturn nRetCode;
08:07.46Defcon}
08:07.48Defconthat is everything
08:07.50DefconwhatwhatWHAT?
08:07.52yukonbob~pastebin
08:07.55ibot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
08:08.08Defconhmm
08:08.10Defconnice
08:08.18alex_joniyukonbob: it will choke
08:08.41Defconhttp://pastebin.com/m68797761
08:08.52Defconlol alex
08:11.12Defconhmmm
08:11.22Defconso i should throw C++ away
08:11.44yukonboboh -- that's up to you..
08:12.02Defconindeed it is
08:12.08Defconbut..
08:12.10yukonbobapparently is quite a task to learn, though (might want to just use C to start)
08:12.24Defconthat's what i wanted to do :)
08:12.27Defconlearn C
08:12.37yukonbob...and it depends, is this required for anything, or self-improvement, or ??
08:12.50Defconbut the C++ is the only C like compiler i have atm
08:13.06Defconself-improvement mostly
08:13.23yukonbobdoes c++ seem interesting to you?
08:13.39yukonbobheh
08:13.42Axman6*cough*
08:13.42Defconno
08:13.56yukonbob:? -- so why are you studying it
08:14.02Defconit seems like a big pile of gibberisch to me
08:14.08Defconbecause i have this: http://wazig.be/%5Fev/dl/ectroverse_source.zip
08:14.15DefconMaloeran's ev
08:14.28Defconand i want to be able to understand it
08:14.34Defconso i can edit it
08:14.41Defconto make it bugfree and stuff
08:14.44yukonbobwhat is that thing you posted?
08:15.07Defcona webbased C game made by Maloeran
08:15.18Defconwith standalone webserver
08:15.18yukonbobC, or C++
08:15.24DefconC
08:15.47Defcon[09:12:49] <Defcon> but the C++ is the only C like compiler i have atm
08:16.35Defconthat's why
08:16.55yukonbobtry raw C in it and see what happens
08:17.08Defcon..
08:17.15Defconmake me an hello world :)
08:17.23yukonbobuse the one I posted ;)
08:17.34Defconi have no idea what the diff is between C and C++
08:17.35Defconah
08:17.35Defconk
08:18.26DefconError1fatal error C1010: unexpected end of file while looking for precompiled header. Did you forget to add '#include "stdafx.h"' to your source?c:\wbe\wazigbe\webroot\_dev\consolecodetry\consolecodetry\consolecodetry.cpp7
08:18.30Defconhmm
08:19.11yukonbobmight require flags for your compiler? (what compiler are you using?)
08:19.27DefconC++
08:19.33DefconVisual Studio 2005
08:21.23alex_joniit's <stdafx.h> not "stdafx.h"
08:21.35Defconthe "" work
08:21.38alex_jonidefault system headers are always between "<>"
08:21.54Defconk
08:22.14Defconsystem(PAUSE);
08:22.22Defconwhat was the right syntax of this?
08:22.32Defconsystem("PAUSE"); ?
08:22.33alex_joniDefcon: giyf :)
08:22.40Defcongiyf?
08:22.47Defcon:)
08:22.52yukonbobciao alex_joni
08:22.56yukonbobciao Defcon
08:23.07alex_jonihttp://www.google.com/search?q=giyf
08:23.31Defconcya
08:23.39Defconah
08:23.39Defconhaha
08:23.41Defcon:)
08:23.45Defconanyway
08:23.46Defconhttp://pastebin.com/m5f1af3cb
08:23.50Defconthat works
08:23.50Defcon:)
08:24.57Defconman i should rtfm
08:25.54yukonbobget "The C Programming Language"
08:26.30alex_jonihttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1568849397/ref=cm_cr_pr_orig_subj
08:26.36alex_joniDefcon: no offense ;)
08:27.23yukonbobhttp://www.amazon.ca/Programming-Language-Brian-W-Kernighan/dp/0131103628/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197620770&sr=8-1
08:29.16yukonbobthen ditch Windows, get a BSD box and Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment, and you're set ;)
08:29.31yukonbobhttp://www.amazon.ca/Advanced-Programming-UNIX-R-Environment/dp/0201433079/ref=pd_bowtega_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197620925&sr=1-1
08:30.42yukonbobugh -- must... tear ... self... away from ... books!!
08:41.02*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (n=clock@zux221-122-143.adsl.green.ch)
08:46.38Defconyeah tnx alex_joni & yukonbob
08:46.49Defconthat would be great to begin with :)
08:48.28Defcon<add key="AppVersion" value="1.0.1 beta" />
08:48.31Defconiep
08:48.37Defconsoz wrong window
08:58.21Z80-Boy5/win 11
09:01.10Defcon..?
09:05.49Z80-Boy5/win 11 means "I tried to switch the IRC windows but made a typo during that"
09:07.50Defconah
09:07.51Defconok
09:07.54Defcongood to know
09:39.17alex_joniZ80-Boy: irssi?
09:40.53DefconIrssi - The client of the future
10:06.05*** join/#brlcad PrezzKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)
10:08.37brlcadow
10:50.06CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: clean up the list of temp directories that we try to identify so they can all be treated/tested the same in a loop. the interface should be pretty solid now.
11:04.25CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: document the bu_temp_file() parameters, don't truncate the filename if it won't fit.
11:04.55CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare the two parameters to bu_temp_file() for storing the filename
11:10.31*** join/#brlcad kwizart (n=kwizart@fedora/kwizart)
11:39.53CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: in order for the filename to be useful, we need to not automatically unlink it right after it's opened -- add it to the closure linked list and unlink the file later during application exit.
11:46.09brlcadheh, http://youtube.com/watch?v=ywqu_8RIDvU
11:49.12Z80-Boybrlcad: I finally managed to get the audio/video in sync - do you want to see a preview of the video?
11:49.19brlcadsure
11:49.20Z80-Boybrlcad: it has a BRL-CAD logo in the end titles
11:49.52brlcadfire away
11:50.11brlcadis this the result of your 336 line'd function?
11:52.20Z80-Boybrlcad: I'll upload it... 25MB - isn't it too much?
11:53.07Z80-Boybrlcad: that was some unrelated function
11:53.55brlcadnot at all
11:54.46brlcadheh, you can upload almost as much as you like *especially* when it's brl-cad related ;)
11:55.14brlcadbandwidth is not a concern in the least, and as soon as the migration is completed, there will be more disk space to spare too
11:55.15Z80-Boybrlcad: what's interesting is the video is generated completely automatically - if you change a detail in some model and type "make", those 25MB of video will be automatically updated
11:55.35Z80-BoyThat's probably a different approach than is used in the world of Windows GUI applications.
11:55.46Z80-BoyThat's a big advantage.
11:56.19brlcadbe interesting to see your script(s)/process that generates the video too
11:56.33Z80-Boyhmm I wrote some custom C utilities for that
11:56.58brlcadyeah, i recall, your yuv converter
11:57.16Z80-BoyI also wrote a wave simulator for the title video effect
11:57.25Z80-Boyand a small program to scroll the end titles
12:00.00kwizarthello all! i'm testing brlcad on Fedora but i have a problem starting mged
12:00.03kwizartinvalid command name "gui"
12:00.03kwizartMGED aborted.
12:00.17kwizartany tips ?
12:00.22kwizartdisplay is set
12:00.25Z80-Boykwizart: typing just "mged"?
12:00.29kwizartyes
12:00.37Z80-Boykwizart: just compiled BRL-CAD?
12:00.41kwizartyes
12:00.48kwizartwell 7.10.4
12:00.51Z80-Boykwizart: that shouldn't happen
12:01.20brlcadkwizart: hm, that usually means that tcl/tk initialization is messed up
12:01.46brlcad'gui' is the first command
12:02.05kwizartmaybe i need to set tcl/tk variable there aren't setted
12:02.13brlcadkwizart: how'd you compile
12:02.32brlcadthere are lots of things that can go wrong during the install/compile -- I suspect you compiled against a system tcl?
12:02.53kwizartyes and it is 0.8.4
12:02.56kwizartsh %{_libdir}/itclConfig.sh
12:03.02kwizartbefore configure
12:03.08brlcadthings are still tricky getting mixtures of system-installed and non-system compilations working
12:03.14brlcad0.8.4?
12:03.16Z80-Boybrlcad: still uploading and we're going to lunch...
12:03.34kwizarttcl-8.4.13-19.fc7
12:03.36brlcadZ80-Boy: no problem, just post the link when it's ready and I'll get to it :)
12:04.19brlcad8.4 can work, but it should have required some source edits..
12:04.38brlcadkwizart: are you using system incrtcl too?
12:04.47brlcadmore to the point, can you post your configure summary?
12:06.00kwizartcannot find incrtcl on yum maybe i miss this one ?
12:06.31brlcadfirst what's your summary?
12:06.37brlcadit'll say what it found and didn't find
12:06.49brlcadshould be near the end of your config.log
12:06.58brlcadif it's no longer in your console history
12:07.53brlcadsection in config.log is the second line that contains "BRL-CAD Release"
12:08.06kwizartonfigure: WARNING: Unable to link against a system Tkstub library
12:08.54kwizart<PROTECTED>
12:08.54kwizartib64/brlcad --disable-rpath --enable-shared --disable-static --enable-64bit-build --enable-opennurbs-build --disable-tcl-build --disable-tk-build --disable-itcl-build --disable-iwidgets-build --disable-blt-build --disable-tkimg-build --disable-jove-build --with-x11 --with-opengl --with-sdl --with-python=/usr/bin/python --with-x --with-libs=-L/usr/lib64/itcl3.3/ -L/usr/lib64/itk3.3/
12:09.33brlcadhmm, you've been trying the fedora build for a while, yes?
12:09.42brlcadi.e. we've had the talk about clobbering system libraries? :)
12:09.52kwizarthttp://pastebin.ca/815796
12:10.26kwizartyes  Build Date: ven 09 nov 2007 16:48:55
12:11.01brlcadoh, nifty -fstack-protector
12:11.04kwizartAnd there is still some minor problem I would solve prior to officially start review for Fedora official repositories
12:12.18kwizartdo you mind it can break thing? it is part of the "mandatory" CLAGS for Fedora every package have to use...
12:12.33brlcadfwiw, java sdl and python are *not* required -- there are interfaces that use them, but they should intently not be listed for any packager
12:12.39kwizartbut in some case, it could be adjusted if it really breaks things
12:13.04brlcadyou mean stack-protector?
12:13.09kwizartyes ?
12:13.11brlcadthat should be fine
12:13.52brlcadwe should come up clean -- if we don't, it's probably something very very recent that slipped in
12:14.12brlcadwe've run all sorts of bounds, stack, and memory protectors/detectors/cleanups in the past
12:16.29brlcadi'm surprised you have the tcl init problem -- you do have it configured to use system tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidgets
12:17.17brlcadfor what it's worth, you might do well to use --disable-all given how many --disable-*-build's you have :)
12:17.54brlcad(see INSTALL for details on the --disable-* flags and their aliases)
12:18.24kwizarti only have   --enable-opennurbs-build \ but maybe I need to have it built alone then links to it...
12:18.46kwizart(if ever another FOSS can use it)
12:18.47brlcadyou can leave that disabled for now
12:19.04kwizartok
12:19.08brlcadthat's for code under active development, it's not ready/used by production code yet
12:19.17brlcadjust starting to integrate
12:24.46kwizartis this a problem ? configure:41521: WARNING: Unable to link against a system Tkstub library ?
12:25.20kwizartah, found that configure:41533: checking for incrTcl library functionality
12:25.21kwizartyes
12:25.54brlcadyeah, if the system one didn't work, configure should have complained
12:26.14CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/chgmodel.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for generalized temp file management. fixes assumption that there's a /tmp and that we can write to C:\ on windows
12:26.15brlcadso they seem to work, just not finding the right tclcad_auto_path
12:27.07brlcadkwizart: I don't think the tkstub link warning is a problem -- it would have caused a build failure elsewhere if it was a problem -- and since the compile completed, that's not the problem
12:27.12brlcadrun this:
12:27.21brlcadmged -c
12:27.25brlcadset auto_path
12:27.35brlcadwhat does that report after the set auto_path?
12:28.02kwizart/usr/lib /usr/share/tclscripts /usr/share/tclscripts/lib /usr/share/tclscripts/util /usr/share/tclscripts/mged /usr/share/tclscripts/geometree /usr/share/tclscripts/rtwizard /usr/share/tcl8.4 /usr/share /usr/lib64
12:28.29kwizart/usr/share/tcl8.4 that one is wrong (checking)
12:28.57kwizarthum no it exist (but there is also a /usr/lib64/tcl8.4
12:34.08brlcadit's okay if there are extra
12:34.08brlcadthe one to check is /usr/share/tclscripts and /usr/share/tclscripts/mged
12:34.08brlcadis there a /usr/share/tclscripts/mged/openw.tcl ?
12:34.08brlcad(that's where the "gui" command is)
12:35.04CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/mater.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. fixes assumption that there's a /tmp and that we can write to C:\ on windows and keeps track of the temp file better
12:35.05brlcadouch
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13:06.07CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/red.c: use bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management. fixes directory assumptions and cleans up temp file creation some
13:12.15CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (tedit.c utility1.c): more usage of bu_temp_file() instead of mktemp/mkstemp for better generalized temp file management.
13:16.04Z80-Boybrlcad: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg
13:16.32Z80-Boybrlcad: I hope you can play Ogg Theora since the MPEG4 encoder misfits the sound to the picture
13:21.01Z80-Boybrlcad: it's a preview. There are still some anomalies but of a minor character.
13:22.02Defcon.ogg is music eejh
13:22.30Z80-BoyDefcon: also Theora, the video codec.
13:23.19Defconah
13:23.23Defconthat's stupid
13:23.24Defcon:)
13:23.45Defconppl should make unique file extensions
13:24.59Z80-Boy.ogg is unique. It's for the Ogg container format.
13:25.56Defconyeah
13:26.08Defconbut it can contain both music & video
13:26.15Defconor what?
13:26.49Z80-BoyIt contains Theora video and Vorbis audio
13:31.59Defconyes
13:32.35CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer need TMP_MAX_S or mktemp with the latest bu_temp_file() implementation
13:33.04CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: a_overlap isn't identical to a_multioverlap -- one too many struct partitions
13:34.21CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/do_options.c: use bu_temp_file() for the batch file instead of assumping /tmp
13:53.03CIA-42BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/bool.c: typo
14:15.58brlcadZ80-Boy: that's pretty cool, nice work
14:16.46brlcadinteresting, quicktime actually did just fine decoding the file, whereas mplayer seems to presume it's audio-only
14:17.58Z80-Boybrlcad: thanks
14:18.09Z80-Boybrlcad: my mplayer can play it
14:39.33``Erikbrlcad, are you in today? we're doing korean...
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14:49.49Defcon"we're doing korean..."
14:49.51Defcon?
14:49.55Defconsounds dirty
14:51.32Z80-BoyHow to cope with death? Behave in a way than on your death bed you can say to yourself "good that this man is already going to disappear from the face of the Earth" ;-)
14:54.21``Erikyou don't disappear, you just change roles.... "worm food" is a glorious duty!
14:54.33Z80-Boyyou just turn into thousand worms
14:54.44Z80-Boylike my garbage grows little wings and starts to fly around the kitchen
14:55.00Z80-Boythanks to the genetic code of drosophila melanogaster
14:55.08Z80-Boyfruit fly
14:55.38Z80-Boydo you think it's immoral to work for google when google does a censorship of search results in China?
14:56.26alex_joniZ80-Boy: only if you're chinese or a resident in china
14:56.30``Erikno more than it is to use google...
14:57.13``Erikhell, I think the us gov't is full of bunk and immorality, but I still work for 'em... I just try to do what I can to make things a little better where I can *shrug* :)
14:58.27Z80-Boy``Erik: don't you get minus points for social skills if you talk like this about them?
14:59.15``Erikmebbe
14:59.19``Erikbut, uh, I don't give a fuck
14:59.19``Erik:D
14:59.20Z80-BoyGoogle has headquarters in Mountain View
14:59.30Z80-BoyHow far is it from there to the closest surf spot?
14:59.43``Erikum, very close? the uhhh
14:59.50Z80-BoyThat might make them less imooral :D
14:59.58``Erikthere's a famous beach like 20km west
15:00.05Z80-Boy20km that's great :)
15:00.11``Erikmebbe a little more
15:00.13Z80-BoySanta Cruz? The Surf City?
15:00.33Z80-Boy20km then censorship turns is a beacon of democracy
15:00.50Z80-Boyespecially if they have nice waves peeling slanted to the beach
15:00.54Z80-Boyand good sandbanks :)
15:00.59``Eriksanta crus is like 20km south
15:01.14``Erikjust down highway 17
15:01.46``Erikerm, more than 20km, sorry
15:01.57``Erik35 miles, 55km
15:02.06Z80-Boybut the beach is 20km west?
15:02.21Z80-BoyAnd Santa Cruz there are skaters too
15:02.37``Erikwow, google maps gives some lame directions
15:02.52``Erikit looks like 20km "as the crow flies", but 55 by road, up through san mateo
15:03.19``Erikand if you moved there, you'd probably get an apt between work and the beach, so ... :D
15:03.25Z80-BoyWhatever that's still fine
15:03.30Z80-Boyapt ==?
15:03.38Z80-Boyapartment!
15:03.38``Erikapartment
15:03.47Z80-BoyNo I would live in a surf hut
15:03.59``Erikheh
15:03.59Z80-Boywith 100mbps fibre optics
15:04.40alex_joni10GiGE
15:04.40``ErikI assume you'd work more than you'd surf, so I'd assume you'd live closer to mountain view than santa cruz, ... it might be hard to find a surf hut in silicon valley suburbia :D
15:05.06Z80-BoyI could type while waiting for a wave
15:05.44``Erikheh, you should work at the google center in ireland :D catch some cold waves up there between beers ;)
15:05.55Z80-Boycatch some cold, period?
15:06.13Z80-BoyMountain View is close to the San Francisco
15:06.20Z80-BoyThat has an apparent advantage for me :)
15:06.21``Erikyes, it's on the bay
15:06.28Z80-Boygay bay
15:06.42``Erikthe san fagcisco bay, yes
15:06.43``ErikO:-)
15:06.53Z80-Boylol
15:09.59Z80-Boybrlcad: do you think my video could be used as a demo video on the new brlcad web pages?
15:22.32``Erikis it that one with just the plane fly-around?
15:23.22``Erikthere, uh, is something ummm, "tracker" or something, that allows bezier splines to be used as "paths" for animations, I THINK... O.o I noticed it in the clone code, d'no if it works, if it's what I think it is, or how to use it... :D
15:25.33Z80-Boy``Erik: http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg no it's not plane fly-around
15:26.36``Erikhuh, I thought ogg was an audio format
15:26.42``Erikthe vorbis video was theora, I thought
15:27.03Z80-Boythe modern video players should be able to play it
15:27.16``Erikor mebbe I'm backwards
15:27.25Z80-BoyI wanted to make it in MPEG4 but my encoder slips the audio and video against each other
15:27.27``Erikmebbe ogg is the umbrella and vorbis is the audio component
15:27.50Z80-Boyogg is the container vorbis audio and theora video
15:28.08``Erikxiph needs a better "for retards" page, so folk like me can keep up :D
15:28.48Z80-Boy``Erik: you mean "better ergonomy"? :)
15:29.19Z80-BoyI don't think one is a retard just because he doesn't want to spend unnecessary time on researching what should be written on the title page
15:29.46``Erikwell
15:29.58Z80-BoyI think it's their fault not yours ;-)
15:30.05``ErikI did research the audio side when I was interested in writing an icecast/shoutcast streamer client...
15:30.06``Erik:D
15:30.17``Erikso I shoulda known that
15:31.11Z80-BoyRecent mplayer compiled having libtheora and libvorbis and libogg installed should play it
15:31.17``Erikhrmmmmm, I have VLC, it plays it
15:31.20Z80-BoyI compiled a mplayer myself and it works with Theora fine
15:31.21``Erikum
15:31.23Z80-Boygreat!
15:31.38``Erikhave you thought about re-rendering those in perspective mode?
15:31.46``Erikortho looks weird animated
15:31.47``Erik:)
15:31.49Z80-Boyshould I?
15:32.09Z80-BoyIt's just a matter of adding a parameter to the rt call isn't it?
15:32.17``Erikyeah, like -p<fov> or something
15:32.29Z80-Boywhat fov do you recommend?
15:32.36Z80-BoyHave you seen the brl-cad logo in the end titles?
15:32.41``Erikalso; you can set up the frame size to be non-square
15:32.44``Erikno, I'm at 2:10
15:32.57Z80-Boy768x576?
15:33.14``Erikyou could do that size... :)
15:33.31Z80-Boyor 640x480
15:33.31``Eriktypically, movies are 4:3 or 16:9, *shrug* :)
15:33.58``Erikcool stuff
15:34.13Z80-Boythanks
15:34.39``Erikum, as far as fov, probably something in the 60-90 range
15:34.40Z80-Boydo you think it would be better to replace the black background with some impressive photos from Ronja?
15:34.49Z80-BoyLaser beams over roofs, welding sparks etc.?
15:35.43Z80-BoyA different background for each shot?
15:38.54``Erikstupid intarweb
15:39.06``Erikum, if the point is to show off the pieces, background images would just distract, no?
15:39.23Z80-Boythose internets! a satellite will fall upon us because of that and everything will be over!
15:39.37Z80-Boymaybe?
15:40.02Z80-BoyOr I thought about more neutral background images, like a picture of various cracks and spots of dirt on walls, curbs etc.
15:40.15Z80-Boywith a hand-scratched name of the component over it at the bottom or the top
15:40.27Z80-Boythis looks too introvertistick
15:40.36Z80-Boytoo geeky
15:40.47Z80-Boytoo organized
15:40.50Z80-Boytoo intelligent
15:41.00Z80-Boytoo boring, nerdy, ... ;-)
15:41.03Z80-BoyDon't you think?
15:41.39``Erik*shrug* I d'no, I don't do visual art shtuff
15:42.06Z80-BoyI don't do either, but I want my video to look attractive :)
15:42.45``ErikI have a friend that does freelance work on that kinda stuff, but I doubt you'd want to pay for help ;) *shrug* aint' my scene, though
15:42.57Z80-BoyNo Ronja is for free
15:43.53``Eriknext time I talk to phil, I'll mention it *shrug* mebbe he'd to it for free to have something to put in his portfolio *shrug*
15:45.24brlcadZ80-Boy: I was thinking something along those lines (demo video on new site)
15:45.58brlcad``Erik: tracker actually duplicates geometry along a spline path (like tank treads)
15:46.15brlcadthere's a different anim_track tool for bezier animation paths
15:46.27brlcadprolly getting the two confused
15:46.27``Erikoh, okie
15:47.20Z80-Boybrlcad: should I be extroverted and mix background using background RGB combo or do it properly and use the ray hit distance and write own C utility for that? :D
15:47.31``Erikheh, how's the soup treatin' ya, dude? :>
15:48.52brlcadI've been eating pretty normal
15:49.04brlcadjust slower and less
15:49.18``Erikcool,  which two did you get knocked out? both the tops?
15:49.48Z80-BoyWohoo, Virgin Classic Rock playing Hendrix :)
15:49.48brlcadleft side
15:49.56brlcadso I can still chew on right somewhat
15:50.01``Erikthink you could deal with korean?
15:50.06brlcadprolly not
15:50.09``Erikaight
15:50.26``Erikgonna do the other two in a week or two?
15:50.31Z80-BoyIs it true that Americans are more extroverted than the European?
15:50.32brlcadZ80-Boy: mix what with what?
15:50.46brlcadother two at end of Jan
15:50.50Z80-Boybrlcad: put a background on my rendered videos
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15:58.40``Erikprasad, talked to mm this morning, he's still working on getting the data for his thesis all together... hasn't even written the thing yet :)
16:00.39``Erikkebert xela.
16:02.22brlcadZ80-Boy: mm, i'd just use the background pixel value (that's part of why that 0,0,-1 exists, for blending/background detection)
16:02.36brlcader, 0,0,1
16:03.32Z80-Boybut if I have dark blue in my model, it gets dithered either into 0,0,0 or 0,0,2?
16:03.50brlcaddithered?
16:03.54brlcadyou have something dithering?
16:04.03Z80-Boywhatever
16:04.14Z80-Boyhow does background color from model color distinguished?
16:04.15brlcadi'd do the merge before building the animation
16:04.55Z80-Boythat's what I mean
16:04.59Z80-Boyrt and then do a merge
16:05.09Z80-Boybut what if a pixel in the model happens to raytrace to 0,0,1?
16:05.22Z80-Boythen I will have a little hole in the model?
16:05.59brlcadyes, that is conceivable, regardless of the background pixel color
16:06.13brlcadjust the nature of reserving a value for the mask, since there is no alpha channel
16:06.48brlcadthough for any real model, you're exceptionally not likely to get 0,0,1
16:07.22brlcadif you want to be sure and get a perfect mask, you could create a top-level combination that uses the flat shader
16:07.33brlcadthat'll give you a perfect mask using whatever values you choose
16:08.57``Erikbrlcad, got a question from dave
16:09.48``Erikis there a way in mged to see which combinations contain a specified region?
16:10.24Z80-Boybrlcad: but then I have to perform another render using this flat shader right?
16:10.53Z80-Boybrlcad: I would rather turn on distance reporting and make a script that extracts and masks from the output - that requires only one render.
16:23.55brlcadZ80-Boy: yes, you could turn on the distance reporting, but on a per-pixel basis it should actually be faster to render twice than do all that I/O
16:24.14Z80-Boybrlcad: I doubt
16:24.21brlcad``Erik: yes
16:24.34Z80-Boybrlcad: rendering takes substantial time
16:25.25brlcadthe flat shader is the fastest shader, should be substantially faster
16:26.12Z80-Boybrlcad: but it also needs to order those binary logical operation trees
16:26.19Z80-Boywhich probably cause the 210x slowdown
16:26.30Z80-Boyso instead of 210x I'll get 420x 8-I
16:28.38brlcadthey don't "probably" cause it, the boolean operations are what cause it to go slower
16:28.46brlcaddidn't you read the response to your bug report? :)
16:29.30brlcadeither way, just a suggestion
16:29.42brlcadso go the scripting route, that should work just as well
16:29.53Z80-Boymaybe not I got rid of my e-mail
16:30.03Z80-Boyactually I redirected it so I should have read it
16:30.13Z80-BoyBut I don't remember
16:33.44brlcad``Erik: tell him to check out the quick ref card, geometry information section .. dbfind and dbfindtree
16:38.25Z80-Boy``Erik: isn't your last name Allman?
16:41.43prasad_all man indeed
16:43.15prasad_i gave boids guns for my final project - brian would be proud :)
16:51.21MaloeranIn wxwidgets, would anyone happen to quickly know what would be the proper widget to render 2d stuff directly in the native format?
16:51.49MaloeranwxImage and friends expect 24 bits RGB data, which may imply conversion
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19:15.13``Erikheh, no, if I write anything as ugly as sendmail, shoot me :D
19:15.29``Erikalso; not gay, ktnx :D
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19:22.26``Erikdoh, he wasn't evne here to see it
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20:00.36brlcadhello JJLopez
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20:35.44yukonbobZ80-Boy: cool video :)
20:37.42Z80-Boyyukonbob: thanks
20:48.41yukonbobZ80-Boy: what did you use to generate the first fades?
20:48.51yukonbob(blurs)
20:53.56dlido I need 3D support from the video card?
20:54.28dlithe driver doesn't have 3D acceleration yet
20:55.31``Erikno
20:56.07Z80-Boyyukonbob: a custom written algorithm
20:56.10``Erikand the "opengl" output display is no faster than the X output, due to the way it's used
20:56.34Z80-Boyyukonbob: http://ronja.twibright.com/utils/wave.c
20:56.47dli``Erik, thanks
21:15.50brlcadahh, libpng 1.2.24
21:17.23brlcadwoo hoo, we're now back to a fully warning-free build (aside from src/other)
21:17.45brlcadsoon as I can verify a couple other platforms, we can bump the warning level up a notch
21:17.52``Erikw00t
21:17.59``Erik-W -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic
21:17.59``Erik:D
21:18.10brlcadWerror won't work
21:18.13brlcadcause of src/other
21:18.22``Erikyeah, well, src/other is a bitch :D
21:18.32``Erikand it'll work if you use the system installs of everything
21:18.40``Erikdebian testing just added tcl/tk 85
21:20.14``Erikjavascript might be making me EVEN MORE retarded (I know, ya'll thought that was impossible, but here we are)
21:20.47dlitcl and tk-8.5-beta3 all in gentoo now, can I build brlcad against them now?
21:22.45louipcI used tcl8.5b2 withouth problem, though archer doesn't like that version
21:23.08brlcadi don't believe head is currently functional, particularly wrt incr -- haven't fixed the searching yet
21:23.30brlcadwill take a few days to sort out
22:08.51``Erik"occam's space laser"
22:11.02alex_jonihttp://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=387489&cid=21679547
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22:37.44IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/hotstuff.png  <--- a 10hour build and i got this :)
22:38.05IriX64sorry poolio, it's another helicopter :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071215

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071215

00:45.11*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
01:22.23*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177593139.dsl.bell.ca)
01:23.45IriX64http://rafb.net/p/js9SlQ72.html   <---- runtime, dunno what this is all about
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03:19.49IriX64http://rafb.net/p/MtYMIK52.html   <---- works guys :)
03:22.17IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/black.png  <--- heres what that shot produced
04:13.13Tobahelicopter!
04:28.53*** join/#brlcad CIA-4 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)
04:41.11brlcadwoot, yukonbob
04:56.59dtidrowevening, brlcad
05:09.27CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: don't need HAVE_MATHERR
05:10.14CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/anal.c: remove the old acos() hack to quell implementation errors by overriding matherr()
05:18.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/ (Makefile.am sqrt.gould.s sqrt.vax.s):
05:18.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: remove the unused assembler sqrt() implementations for the gould and vax.
05:18.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: relinquish to the bowels of revision history until there is (ever) a need to
05:18.07CIA-4BRL-CAD: properly reintegrate into the build (where they probably belong in libbn)
05:23.39CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libtool on mac chokes on the -bind_at_load, get rid of it
05:38.25CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer need HAVE_TMPFILE_S, no longer using tmpfile_s()
05:40.02CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer using tmpfile_s(), don't check for it
05:43.09CIA-4BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: we don't use ftime()
05:46.01yukonbobevening, cadheads
05:51.49dtidrowokay, so what's the program for displaying .pix images?
05:52.30yukonbobpix-png, favourite .png viewer.
05:52.55dtidrowpix-png converts them to png's?
05:53.07yukonbobheh -- truth in advertising.
05:53.55dtidrowthought there was a viewer for pix in brl-cad somewhere...
05:55.39dtidrowyou would think there would be one, since .pix isn't a standard format
05:56.28yukonbobwell, there are converters
05:57.58dtidrowthere's probably a way to run the fb app and load a pix into that, I just don't know enough about brl-cad yet to do that
05:58.19yukonboboh sure -- pix-fb
05:58.29dtidrowthough "pix-png moss.pix > moss.png" works
05:59.04dtidrowwell, I tried that first (pix-fb) - do you need an existing fb running?
05:59.18dtidrowwild guesses here  ;-)
05:59.40dtidrowI'll just convert them to png's...
06:05.42brlcadpix-fb
06:06.37brlcadif you're pre 7.10.4, it's pix-fb -F/dev/Xl file.pix
06:06.48brlcad7.10.4 and later, it's just pix-fb file.pix
06:07.06brlcadI made lingering default
06:07.18dtidrowah - still have 7.10.0
06:07.53brlcadyou can run your own framebuffer server via fbserv, but that's mostly if you want to do multiple processing steps and/or read/write pixels instead of just display them
06:08.25dtidrow/dev/Xl?
06:08.47brlcadyeah
06:09.12brlcadthat means use the "X framebuffer device" with the "l" linger option
06:09.22brlcad(nothing to do with the /dev filesystem)
06:09.56brlcadfun "fbhelp" and it'll describe what framebuffer devices you have available
06:10.12dtidrowah - that's more like it
06:10.41yukonbobbrlcad: do you think that syntax (/dev/Xl) is worth visiting, for it's confusion w/ /dev/ filesystems on *nix boxes, or would it be too big a deal wrt backward compat.?
06:10.55brlcadpix files are "raw" so if it's not the default 512x512, you have to specify dimensions
06:11.25brlcadyukonbob: backwards compat is the primary reason it's not changed
06:11.27dtidrowI just wanted to look at the results of the benchmark runs
06:12.18dtidrowyukonbob: yep, that's what I was thinking - didn't see 'Xl' in /dev anywhere...
06:12.40brlcadyukonbob: otherwise it would have likely changed a long time ago, and it's been a really minor point -- after you learn once and then you pretty much know
06:13.08dtidrowit's there to confuse n00bs....
06:13.10dtidrow;-)
06:13.17brlcadyeah, it's one of about a dozen of the FAQ newbie questions and areas of confusion that would be good to get rid of for 8.0
06:13.20yukonbobbrlcad: /me notes that Tcl has a "Tcl 9 wishlist" where wishes that will break backward compatibility are entertained -- perhaps something like that for BRLCAD 8?
06:13.41brlcadalready have that wishlist, it's in the todo
06:13.53brlcadat least for the "important" ones
06:15.29dtidrowbrlcad: 'rt' is the main raytracer executable, right?
06:15.38brlcadyukonbob: also plan to get started on some of those backwards-breaking topics on a branch after the move to svn
06:15.42brlcaddtidrow: yep
06:17.11brlcadlingering framebuffer windows was another FAQ newbie item that has been requested for about two decades... but I figured out a way to implement it and retain backwards compatibility, so it made the minor update
06:18.25yukonbobbrlcad: /me was re-introduced to the "chromium" project again today -- you aware of it?
06:21.05dtidrowbrlcad: http://www.yafray.org/ - any knowledge of this?
06:23.42brlcadyukonbob: hm, not intimately, but I was reading about them about a week or two ago
06:24.00brlcaddtidrow: quite familiar with yafray
06:24.19brlcadhe's usually at siggraph
06:24.19dtidrowopinion/comments?
06:25.20brlcadit's a pretty decent optical renderer, really decent global illumination modes
06:25.58brlcadperformance is a bit teh suck and it doesn't deal with solid geometry, but it does the trick for visualization purposes pretty slickly
06:26.33brlcadblender shelved their (horrible) ray-tracer for yafray a couple years ago
06:26.38yukonbob"doesn't deal w/ solid geom." -- you mean shooting rays and getting xrays, or collision detection?
06:27.28brlcadfull shotline, proper inside/outside detection all the way along the ray -- for non-optical purposes
06:28.12yukonbobbut it's an option for visually rendering, esp if one wants more than 16 light sources, correct?
06:28.36brlcadit's a great option for visual rendering
06:29.27brlcadfor the new solid modeler interface, I'm hoping to sort out the interface so that different ray-tracers can be used -- yafray and povray would be near top of my list of the first to hook in
06:29.41yukonbobnice
06:30.10dtidrowwhat year did brl-cad get open-sourced, anyway?
06:30.14yukonbobwould that be a batch-oriented .tmp files and call-out to the respective tracers, or linking them in as libs?
06:31.19brlcaddtidrow: we're about a week away from the three years anniversary
06:31.53dtidrow'04? hmmm, thought it was earlier than that
06:32.06dtidrowmemory gets fuzzy with age...  :-\
06:32.33brlcadyukonbo: probably batch oriented  with some sort of compiled plugin-in frontend that would have knowledge how to prepare/convert data into their format
06:33.30yukonbobbrlcad: that was my first instinctual idea...
06:33.36brlcadas a lib would be possible, but probably a LOT more work
06:33.45yukonbob<PROTECTED>
06:33.59yukonbobpovray == weird license because it's soo old.
06:34.10brlcadyeah, povray's a problem that way
06:34.27yukonbobbatching makes sense for a few reasons, though...
06:34.40brlcadthat may be a non-starter for povray, but that would be something to look into down the road
06:35.49yukonboba g-pov, g-yafray, etc., etc. could potentially do the trick, and then let a person setup their own cameras/perspectives, no?
06:37.07brlcadyep
06:38.09yukonbobmmm... maybe my lex/yacc studies will lead to assiting on this...
06:38.17brlcadyou can fake pipe's with other cylinders and torii
06:38.21yukonbob*assisting
06:38.34brlcadcool
06:38.46yukonbobbrlcad: re: cylinders + torii, I guess that's where the heavy lifting occurs ;)
06:40.34brlcadpovray's actually one of the closest matches to us
06:40.57brlcadsince they do have many of the same implicits and actually do a lot of the same implicit evaluation
06:41.11brlcadthey have a few we don't have, we have a few they don't have
06:43.05yukonbobpipe is esp vexing though, considering bending + radiuses (radii?), and growing/shrinking internal/external radiuses along the length of the pipe...
06:44.04brlcadthe internal is really just a CSG subtracted inner-pipe
06:44.18brlcadso if you implement one, you have the same logic for the inside
06:45.33yukonbobright, but the differences between the transitions are nice + smooth, and still perhaps occurring around a bend, which would be like wrapping a truncated cone inside a bent cylinder/torus in povray....
06:46.23brlcadpovray has a tgc too iirc
06:46.29yukonbobhow tough would it be to take the extrude 3d and make a lathe-like function for brlcad, a la povray?
06:46.59yukonbobre: tgc, but around a bend?
06:47.09brlcadbends are torus
06:47.45brlcadthat's internally how our pipe does it -- tgc and torii segments
06:48.25yukonbobok -- so can the inside dia. of a pipe change while it's bending a curve?
06:48.41yukonbobor outside, for that matter... makes no difference.
06:49.15brlcadI believe it can, but I frankly don't recall
06:49.37brlcadbasically a more generalized torus form
06:52.34brlcadi know what you mean, it'd be a matter of seeing 1) if we allow the torus to "pinch" or not and if we do, how it's implemented and then 2) what that most closely translates to in pov
06:53.21brlcadfor the most part, that would be very much an "edge" case that you could just check and say "oops, can't handle this" .. pipes with bend radius changes on the bend are not the common case
06:53.34yukonbob... the whole idea (of various converters) sounds _really_ cool -- a good way to visit all the elems of BRLCAD, and see how other people are doing things, maybe refactor, etc., etc.
06:54.31brlcadyeah, one of my "big-idea" projects that I've been working towards is making a "universal converter" library given we support more formats than almost anyone except the commercial engines
06:54.48yukonboblibrosetta
06:55.08yukonbob^--- probably used by everybody else that thinks they're great translators ;)
06:55.11brlcadhah
06:55.21brlcadi have a stickie on my desktop with various names for the library
06:55.21yukonboblol
06:55.30brlcadlibrosetta is one of them :)
06:56.01brlcadlibbgc libgconv libg2g
06:56.09yukonbobheh -- we'll have to think of some more interesting obscure reference -- maybe one degree of seperation  -- libdeadsea
06:56.47yukonbob^--- add to stickies
06:57.31brlcadthe only confusion with rosetta is the Mac OS X binary conversion layer of the same name
06:58.07yukonboblibdeadc, libdedc...
06:58.30yukonboblibdedc -- a bacronym -- DEcode Do Conversion
07:05.06*** join/#brlcad louipc (n=louipc@bas8-toronto63-1088753883.dsl.bell.ca)
07:08.17brlcadTRCPY\|STRCSPN\|STRERROR\|STRPBRK\|STRRCHR\|STRSPN\|STRSTR\|STRTOK\)'
07:12.03brlcad(speeding up configure by eliminating tests we can (hopefully) now avoid)
07:15.01brlcadnot one in use, sweet
07:17.44brlcadahh, take that back .. culled too much
07:30.26brlcadnah, they're not expensive .. just c89 function calls that configure checks for which it doesn't need to for most of them
07:30.34brlcadthe calls are just standard library calls
07:37.52louipcmornin
07:54.42brlcadhowdy louipc
08:02.47louipchow are the plans for moving brl-cad to svn?
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08:28.13yukonbobnn #brlcad
08:28.27louipcbye
08:32.55brlcadlouipc: erm, unchanged .. still going to happen
08:34.22Axman6brlcad: isn't it supposed to be pretty easy?
08:34.56louipchey have you guys ever used git?
08:35.28Axman6git sounds... interesting
08:35.40louipcit's awesome
08:36.04Axman6sounds like a nice idea, but not an idea that sits well in my brain
08:36.14louipcwhy's that?
08:38.19louipcgit can kind of work with svn as well
08:40.16Axman6i watched the google tech talk about it with linus. he's a nutjob
08:40.37louipcoh yeah haha
08:43.26louipcI like how you can go totally nuts with your local copy in git and commit, and merge branches, and it's OK nobody sees all that insanity from you if they don't want to
08:45.30brlcadAxman6: it's usually fairly easy, but certainly not turn-key .. especially for a repository as extensive as brl-cad's
08:46.02brlcadlouipc: yes, and you've mentioned it .. like four times now? :P
08:46.42louipci have? I must have mistaken this for another channel then doh
08:47.36brlcadgit or not, distributed works well for some things and horrible for others
08:48.03brlcadit's far from a panacea
08:48.12louipcor I just have an odd memory
08:48.32louipcyeah true
08:49.47brlcadyou could just as well argue that seeing that hiding that "insanity", as you put it, is very much a bad thing
08:50.19brlcadparticularly if you're collaborating among few and keeping consensus on development directions
08:51.03brlcadyou often *want* to see the steps taken to get to a given result, regardless of the method and num of intermediate steps
08:51.05louipcwell what you should end up after the insanity is a clean straight-forward set of patches
08:51.52brlcadyou end up with that end-result distributed or not -- the point is the desirability for seeing the steps that got you there too
08:52.16brlcadcentralized encourages that transparency, distributed lets you hide it (or not) -- it's a tradeoff
08:52.34louipcyeah if there are only a few devs then they're probably going to want to see it anyways
08:53.47brlcadyep, very dependendent on the dev structure, number of devs, visibility and collaboration prefs, user-community expectations, etc
08:55.06louipcgit doesn't work too well when the lead guy is too busy with other things and doesn't pull anything, when everyone else is hacking like crazy
08:55.19brlcaddistributed really starts to pay off when the centralized structure becomes a bottleneck administratively (which usually happens after you have hundreds of devs)
08:55.46Axman6like the kernel
08:55.52brlcadyeah, you can set up git in just as brain-dead development-hindering ways as a centralized repo :)
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17:21.03CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/parallel.c: raise() works on windows and is c89, so bye bye
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18:02.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: raise() works on windows and is c89, so bye bye
18:04.06CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: strdup and strsep don't seem to be c89
20:14.39CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac src/libpkg/pkg.c): get rid of our single use of strerror_r, minimize checks
20:30.13CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
20:30.15CIA-29BRL-CAD: remove a whole bunch of function checks that can be taken for granted since c89
20:30.17CIA-29BRL-CAD: provides for them. all of these functions are apparently not even used (any
20:30.19CIA-29BRL-CAD: more) via HAVE_ decls regardless. removing the checks reduces configure time
20:30.21CIA-29BRL-CAD: signficantly. function checks removed include atexit, fabs, floor, memchr,
20:30.25CIA-29BRL-CAD: memmove, modf, pow, setlocale, sqrt, strcpy, strcspn, strpbrk, strrchr, strspn,
20:30.27CIA-29BRL-CAD: strstr, strtol, strtoul, strtoull
20:45.30CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: comment consistency
21:10.20CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: list the POSIX.1 headers too for good measure
21:18.46CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bharder * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Working with new processing to facilitate img handling, re-worked <link> and <xref>, minor formatting.
21:30.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bharder * 10brlcad/doc/book/VolumeIV.xml: Previous commit also re-worked the placement of authorship from <title> to <bookinfo> and the dedication from <prolog> to <dedication> -- not sure about the <author> change... will need to keep eye on this.
21:32.32brlcadwoot
21:37.16brlcadif we get a hundred active devs, I'd be much more fond of it ;)
21:38.21yukonbobdoes Bob do his development on Windows, though?
21:38.27brlcadyep
21:38.56yukonbobso he'd have to use NFS, or FTP (or whatever) files to/from a POSIX box to use git.
21:39.11brlcadas do a couple devs in germany and netherlands
21:39.44brlcaddaniel and wim
21:54.28b0efhow about bazaar?
21:54.49yukonbobisn't that deprecated, in favour of arch?
21:54.58b0efheh, no
21:55.03b0efbazaar-ng
21:55.22b0efhttp://bazaar-vcs.org/
21:55.35louipcooer darn windows!
21:59.17louipcyeah I heard good things about mercurial too
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21:59.24louipcnever used it though
21:59.38illethalGood evening everyone
21:59.42brlcadhello illethal
22:00.04yukonbobit's pretty simple... I use it instead of RCS for my local disk
22:01.11yukonbobhg init; hg add thisfile thatfile; [edit files]; hg commit
22:01.44louipcoh yeah I've heard syntax is similar to git
22:02.15b0efthat's how you do it in bzr, too
22:02.15yukonbobiirc, git uses lots of binaries to get it's job done...
22:02.32b0efya'll haven't watched the git video by linus?
22:02.56yukonbobwhere he calls the svn devs from google braindead?
22:03.40b0efyeah;)
22:03.40yukonbobclassy
22:03.40b0efhehe
22:03.40b0ef<PROTECTED>
22:16.41yukonbobheh --- /me reads a mozilla developer blog where they were testing what vc to move to (from CVS) and importing the CVS tree->bzr took more than a *month* of running time...
22:21.06louipcouch
22:21.17louipcthey're moving to mercurial yeah?
22:21.58yukonbobare on it apparently, with plan to revisit the decision in 9-12 months (from March, I guess, when they moved).
22:24.41brlcadillethal: what brings you around?
22:31.38illethalGot interested in BRL Cad.
22:31.39illethal=)
22:31.44illethalI'm a 3D graphic artist though
22:31.51illethalBRL is a massive learning curve.
22:32.12yukonbobillethal: you have examples of your work online?
22:33.12yukonbobhrm... apparently FreeBSD is mercurial too...
22:33.38illethalYeah.
22:33.50illethalhttp://micah.noobgrinder.com/3d/oden.jpg
22:34.39b0efillethal: that looks excellent;)
22:36.51b0efI'm a spline modeler, but since I went free software fanatic, there just aren't any free spline tools, so waiting for brl-cad;)
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22:37.26illethalThanks
22:37.27illethal!
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071216

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071216

00:32.07*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
03:51.44*** join/#brlcad fsdafsd (n=Adsfhsda@72.2.56.245)
03:51.48fsdafsdYAY
03:52.14fsdafsdi allmost bought qcad :/
03:52.52fsdafsdis brlcad an autocad clone ?
03:52.59fsdafsdcause thats what I need
03:53.38fsdafsdawe cool its even cooler
03:53.41fsdafsdcsg
03:54.23fsdafsd<PROTECTED>
03:54.24fsdafsd
03:54.24fsdafsd<PROTECTED>
04:14.19``Erikkarel
04:14.36``ErikI has a philbert
04:17.57``Erikhe's interested in helping out
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08:51.43louipcfsdafsd: brl-cad is definitely not an autocad clone, and still has a way to go for proper drafting capabilities
08:53.34louipc²
08:55.13louipc@w
08:55.16louipcoops
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15:15.17CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: no longer check for bzero, begin conversion to memset
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15:32.27CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: bzero is POSIX.1, memset is c90 -- pick the latter for now and remove bzero from machine.h
15:34.30CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (bu.h raytrace.h): ws
15:35.10CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/nmg.h: begin bzero -> memset conversion
15:43.34CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: (log message trimmed)
15:43.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: remove a slew of function checks that have no corresponding HAVE_* define use in
15:43.40CIA-29BRL-CAD: the code reducing configure time by another significant amount. functions
15:43.45CIA-29BRL-CAD: included are: dup2, endgrent, endpwent, finite, fttruncate, getcwd,
15:43.47CIA-29BRL-CAD: gethostbyaddr, gethostbyname, getpagesize, getpass, gettimeofday, inet_ntoa,
15:43.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: isascii, isfinite, localtime_r, mkdir, mkfifo, munmap, ml_langinfo, panic,
15:43.51CIA-29BRL-CAD: prtcl, putenv, re_comp, realpath, rmdir, select, setlinebuf, socket, strcasecmp,
16:00.26CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (95 files in 26 dirs): convert all bzero calls to memset
16:02.47CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: fully remove the bzero/bcopy section
16:06.00CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): few multiline bzero to memset stragglers
16:09.48CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/HACKING: comment on using memset and memcpy instead of bzero and bcopy
16:38.10Axman6brlcad: you're a coding machine man. up there with Allan Odgaard ;)
16:49.17CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/convert.c: not clear whether the two regions can overlap, so convert bcopy to memmove
16:50.22CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (htond.c htonf.c): memcpy has been part of strings.h since c90, get rid of the HAVE_MEMORY_H condition and bcopy alternate
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17:33.44brlcadAxman6: I have no idea who he is, but my i'll tip my hat in an approving nod regardless ;)
17:34.27Axman6the author of TextMate
17:35.19brlcadTextMate
17:35.24brlcad~ww
17:35.24ibotMmmm.. Modalities.
17:35.44Axman6hmm?
17:35.57brlcadwonder how much he makes off that
17:36.26Axman6well he has no other job. it's worth every cent too imo
17:41.43Axman6i'm sensing you're not a textmate fan then ;)
17:44.16brlcadnever used it
17:44.38brlcadnot sure I've ever heard of it
17:44.56Axman6fair enough. i couldn't tell you if you'd like it, but i like it a lot
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18:54.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (76 files in 22 dirs): convert usages of bcopy to memcpy throughout. although none of them should be buffers that overlap per machine.h history, all calls were individually checked regardless. new code should not use bzero/bcopy any more.
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20:13.51CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: not using HAVE_GETOPT anywhere, no need to check for getopt
20:14.34CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac: erm, adrt does use HAVE_GETOPT_LONG, though, so check for getopt_long
20:56.08CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/Makefile.am: provide the trimconfig.sh script since it should be fairly generic to any configure.ac file
21:10.47CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/sh/trimconfig.sh: cleanup printing
21:11.04Z80-Boybrlcad: now I fixed the audio cut and the sync - http://ronja.twibright.com/3d/all.ogg
21:11.10Z80-Boybrlcad: do you think it's already a demonstration grade?
21:14.23Axman6Z80-Boy: what is it?
21:23.05Z80-BoyAxman6: a video
21:23.22Axman6just wondering what of
21:26.26alex_joniZ80-Boy: are those communication devices?
21:27.07Z80-Boyalex_joni: yes
21:27.12alex_joniZ80-Boy: nice
21:27.14Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com
21:27.27Z80-Boymade of stove pipes and magnifying glasses
21:27.37Z80-Boy10Mbps 1.4km full duplex 10^-9 BER
21:27.53alex_joniI think I stumbled upon that site a while ago
21:27.57CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: memset missing comma
21:28.33alex_jonifor some reason I remember something like "sonja" not "ronja"..
21:28.59alex_joniZ80-Boy: vid looks good
21:29.04Z80-Boyalex_joni: thanks
21:52.15yukonbobZ80-Boy: the only criticism I have about the video is the viewer perspective --- I think it'd feel more comfortable from "below" the devices slightly, esp. since optical equip weather shields somewhat block viewing from above...
22:20.21CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/masonry.c: oops, subscripted value is neither array nor pointer
22:24.17CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/configure.ac:
22:24.23CIA-29BRL-CAD: remove checks for a slew of headers that seem to have no corresponding HAVE_*_H
22:24.29CIA-29BRL-CAD: in use anywhere in our sources. these include arpa/inet.h, ieeefp.h, itcl.h,
22:24.33CIA-29BRL-CAD: itk.h, langinfo.h, malloc.h, netdb.h, socket.h, strings.h, sys/resource.h,
22:24.40CIA-29BRL-CAD: sys/statfs.h, sys/timeb.h, utime.h, values.h, waitflags.h, and wchar.h
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071217

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071217

01:43.14CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: BOOL_T isn't even used any more
02:14.37CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: ws
02:15.16CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: no longer should be using nor needing the bzero/bcopy macros -- should be using memset and memcpy throughout now
02:17.35CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (52 files in 8 dirs): removal of the FAST declaration throughout. now using register or letting the compiler sort things out.
02:23.05CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libdm/dm-wgl.c: revert int back to BOOL, windows thing
02:32.07brlcadahhh...crrrrraaaaap.
02:33.10brlcadshould NOT be static .. in fact static becomes very bad on SMP machines, which explains all these random crashes I've been having
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05:54.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/ (5 files in 5 dirs): revert the rest of the bad tclIndex files that were clobbered during the 2007/11/28 commit with log "LOCAL->static, per machine.h deprecation list"
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06:33.55CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/doc/html/manuals/Install.html: remove references to LOCAL and FAST
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07:53.59CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (46 files in 5 dirs): my bad deprecation instruction, revert/remove the LOCAL -> static conversion. LOCAL is only static for non-SMP systems, but usually auto.
07:54.53CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/machine.h: poof, make LOCAL go away entirely. the deprecation instruction was wrong/bad -- LOCAL shouldn't go to static, it just goes away (so we get auto).
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08:17.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/g_hf.c: remove silly rcsid printing
08:30.30CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/lgt/reflect.c: add last partition param
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13:25.25CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/libbu/temp.c: time() is declared in time.h
13:34.16CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/conv/comgeom/f2a.c: bu_exit() is declared in bu.h
13:54.23brlcadhello d_rossberg
13:56.08d_rossberghello brlcad
13:56.16CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: do not forget to copy a string's terminating 0
14:08.49brlcadhm, suppose I should review all instances and make sure they're manually null-terminated
14:09.04brlcadat least for the strncat/strncpy calls
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14:11.18brlcadhm, which there are 89 and 742 respectively
14:11.19d_rossbergmaybe you should write a bu_strncpy which ensures that the last byte of the buffer is always 0
14:11.38brlcadyeah, that's what I was thinking
14:11.54brlcador something like what you had earlier for strlcpy
14:12.04brlcadmaybe a bu_strlcpy
14:12.25d_rossbergstd::string ?
14:12.34brlcadheh
14:12.51brlcadthat'd be a pretty major change
14:14.11brlcaddon't presently require a c++ compiler just yet
14:14.15d_rossbergyes, and i don't think that all sources woulg go through as .cpp
14:15.53brlcadto date, all the libs (and almost all the sources) have been moving towards strict ansi/iso compliance, pure C lib path
14:16.27brlcadthe opennurbs work was the first major "good reason" to adopt c++, so maybe as that work completes and it's integrated non-optional
14:17.25brlcadstill, gut feeling is to keep them pure C and have C++ libs that build on top of them, new OO API akin to what you started, maybe even using that code as a starting point
14:19.08brlcadand even for opennurbs, to hide it as implementation detail instead of keeping the current exposure
14:21.20d_rossbergit's true, i'm using my own C++ wrapper to access brlcad library, but i've never published it
14:42.14``Erikhum, a release of bzflag
14:42.18``Erik2.0.10 O.o
14:48.24*** join/#brlcad jaminkle (i=JiE@60.53.124.14)
14:53.14``Erik*scrollscrollscroll* seems brlcad was busy this weekend
14:55.53brlcad``Erik: that was about a month ago (bz release)
14:56.01``Erikstatic is only bad if the function is supposed to be reentrant, and that can break on single proc machines if the ccontext switch happens in the func
14:56.08``Erikoh, it just made happypenguin :)
14:56.30brlcadyeah, we didn't notify this time, so it's just been usual word-of-mount spread
14:56.48``Erikhow's the jaw? back to real food yet?
14:56.49brlcadmany of the functions in librt are supposed to be re-entrant
14:57.00brlcads/many/most/
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14:57.20``Erikyeah, but I believe there is no annotation to say which are or are not intended to be that way
14:57.53``Erikd'no how critical that is, but I think that'd make it easier for a new coder to not break things
14:58.03brlcadI don't think *any* are intentionally not that way, just not used in parallel yet or known to not work or not worth the effort
14:58.39``Erikheh, then static without semaphores or something is just plain bad juju :D
14:58.52brlcadsome of the libbu routines exist because they were made reentrant when the same/similar C interface was not necessarily
15:00.00brlcadhello jaminkle
15:01.49``Erikpng 1.2.24
15:02.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: parker fixed asc2g bug on Windows that caused a crash on exit
15:02.28brlcadwhile you were koreaning
15:02.35``Erikstill no fix for mikes uhhh cubit ?
15:02.44brlcadfix?
15:02.59brlcadhis crash-on-exit bug?
15:02.59``Erikit doens't exit clean, so he forces an exit(), right?
15:03.21``ErikI gave him shit about it last week, hoping it'd distract him enough to let bob work
15:03.29``Erik:D
15:03.45brlcadheh, he forces an abort(), exit() would still call the destructors
15:03.54``Erik*shudder*
15:04.09``Erikis it bad dependancy chain stuff? or a broken destructor? or what?
15:04.33brlcadI think he's not deallocating objects he's allocated in the proper order
15:04.48brlcador he's freeing something he shouldn't like a singleton
15:05.09brlcadhighly suspect the latter based on a comment he made a couple weeks ago
15:05.21brlcadbut still tbd
15:05.22``Erikheh, unfortunately, the cubit code isn't open enough for me to bother with unless I'm told to :D
15:05.49brlcadCGM is pretty open, it's lgpl
15:06.32brlcadjust mostly useless by itself, it depends on ACIS so you can't compile it stand-alone iirc without ACIS
15:08.45``Erikya in today? bob is talking about lee's hunan
15:09.22brlcadon my way
15:10.22motokolearnHA
15:10.30``Erikheh
15:10.40``Erikhttp://freshmeat.net/projects/freedup/?branch_id=70879&release_id=267779
15:11.31``Eriknothing like http://freshmeat.net/projects/epac/
15:11.32``ErikO.o
15:11.59*** join/#brlcad motokolearn (n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au)
15:12.20brlcadhey, I know that guy
15:12.48jaminkle?
15:12.52brlcadI've run across that program about a half-dozen times
15:13.05``Erikwhich now? what? O.o
15:13.12brlcadsorta like ping where the NIBM is rampant
15:13.40Z80-Boybrlcad: ping is from BRL isn't it?
15:13.40``Erikhehehe
15:13.41brlcadpeople writing the same app when others exist
15:13.47``Erikyes, mike muuss wrote the original
15:13.52Z80-Boyhehe :)
15:15.03``Erikwhen I interveiwed at fedex, that epac program was enough to impress their gurus quite a bit, "this guy really understands how filesystems work", so "is this guy technically competent" part was nonexistant
15:15.15brlcadZ80-Boy: any way you could re-encode your video+audio to an mpeg stream, or provide me the audio track separately (then I could more easily re-encode as an mpeg stream)
15:15.46brlcadI don't mind *also* putting up the OGG, but if there's not an mpeg version, 99% of the audience won't see it
15:16.15``Erik*nod* having it "just work" on a vanilla windows computer is an unfortunate necessity :(
15:16.49``ErikI watched 3 episodes of kung fu, serenity, and generally chummed with a buddy who drove down from pennsylvania over the weekend. :D
15:17.16MaloeranAnd over the last 2 weeks? :) Gez fine, let me know if you got something for me
15:17.24MaloeranI'll have plenty of time to code over the next month, I think
15:17.32``Erikoh, ummm
15:17.41*** join/#brlcad motokolearn (n=motokole@snapper.mrfisho.com.au)
15:17.43``ErikI've been gridning on learning, uh, javascript (again)
15:17.59Defconhaha
15:18.11``Erikbut I'm still backing it with php, um, downloaded a lithp webserver thing
15:18.19MaloeranYuck. Ready for anything server-side in C yet?
15:18.35``Erikhunchentute or something
15:18.38Defconserverside C ??
15:18.41``Erikheheheh newp, lithp :D
15:19.11``Eriklisp has the sexiness of being updated live
15:19.26``Erikno "restart" command needed
15:19.42MaloeranFine, I'll code the thing as shared libraries to be reloaded on the run
15:20.09``ErikI did that with one program, there're still advantages to the lithp approach
15:20.16MaloeranSuch as?
15:20.25``Erikalso; I like the sexy curves ( Y )
15:20.32``Erikintrospection
15:21.33MaloeranWell then... I guess the question is, would you rather have me do it in highly optimized C or write the lithp code?
15:21.57``Erikrun sbcl in a screen, run the server aspect and slime server in it, attach emacs to it live (with significant hand twisting), be able to slap out quick one line functions and just groove in it, with the data set just sitting there live, mebbe self-optimizing...
15:22.27*** join/#brlcad motoko (n=motoko@snapper.mrfisho.com.au)
15:22.31``Erikwell, you're throwing out a dirty word there
15:23.09``Erik"optimized"... I think for this application, cpu cycles are not the precious resource, notions like "time to market", bugfix responsiveness, etc are all vastly more important
15:23.49``Erikbut I'm still working on learning the presentation platform... web crap sure has changed in the last 10 years
15:24.12``Erikthere's all this javscript crap, this "css" thingie, ...
15:24.28MaloeranAt the pace this is going, I think it will be mucg faster if I do it in C rather than wait for you to come up with the lithp :)
15:24.29``Erikat least dhtml died
15:24.34Maloeranmuch* faster
15:24.35``Erikhehehe
15:26.01MaloeranWell then, feel free to keep me updated
15:26.21``ErikI'm hoping to do something productive, um, on thursday, while flying
15:27.11MaloeranThat sounds brief
15:27.35``Erikyeah... that's the power of lithp, the code happens really fast
15:28.08``Erikso the "figuring out what you want to do" looks radically large in comparison...
15:29.14``Erikand the code tends to be short and dense, so the seperation notions (which is at least as big in C) seems disproportionately large (it's all parenthesis!... but still less parenthesis than equivelant C, weird)
15:29.25MaloeranSo I suspect you won't need any good C code?
15:29.31``Erikdunno
15:30.22``ErikI imagine that lisp is extremely well suited, so I intend to use that at first, and when it proves itself to be insufficient, THEN I'll start shoving C in
15:30.23``Erik:)
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15:32.06``ErikI've also found that when I try to use python or ruby, it works dandy until things start getting tougher, and then they start seeming awfuly kludgy and hard to used compared to the scheme or lisp solutions... O.o
15:32.56MaloeranI have come to think the same thing of about any language as complexity rises, except C
15:33.35``ErikC has its own issues *shrug* but it's a simple language so the issues are tractable... lisp is similarly simple, but it has a different purpose
15:33.59``ErikI mean, C is fuckin' awesome for writing drivers or kernel stuff... not so much for user apps mangling data sets
15:34.06MaloeranSo you intend to have to rewrite the thing once lisp proves itself insufficient? I really would start with C right away
15:34.33``Eriksee, a lot of the C code I write has me saying "I wish I could write this in scheme, it'd be so much easier"
15:34.35MaloeranOh, I got the code for data sets, memory management or whatever already
15:34.54``Erikyeah, I have a massive personal library, too... *shrug*
15:35.32``Erikbut when every function I'm writing has a single line of scheme describing it in the comment... :D
15:35.50MaloeranOh well. Erik, I can start whenever you want if you want C code
15:36.14``Erikhehehe, and here I thought you'd thrown some lisp out in your day :D
15:36.44MaloeranI have tried, I always came back to C when things were getting more complex
15:37.11``ErikI had that phase with scheme, but as I learned more of the heavier hitting scheme, the balance shifted
15:37.17MaloeranLisp just would not provide the proper and efficient solutions I would seek to get at the assembly level
15:38.20``Erikthe x86 is a horrible chip to start with, judging a language by the x86 machien code of an implementation might not always be appropriate
15:38.57MaloeranIt might be horrible but it's what we got, and the architecture design is there to stay
15:39.23MaloeranI won't pick a language because it can be "theorically" better on some hypothetical ideal computers. I prefer to deal with reality
15:39.37``Erikyeah, the g5 was lovely, but apple jumped ship because of cult of the gigahertz :(
15:40.13``Eriknotionally, the web delivery thing lets you control reality a bit more instead of just sucking it up and going with the rest of the sheep
15:41.26MaloeranFine fine... In that case, let me know when lithp proves itself insufficient and you decide to start over in C :)
15:42.20``Erikhehehe, I'm quite certain I'll find fault with javascript and ie far before lisp :D
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16:02.35jaminkleok this is going to work
16:03.04jaminkleoh noes
16:03.09jaminklei killed him
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16:06.05``Erikheh
16:11.35jaminklemotokolearn hello
16:11.47motokolearnjaminkle: Hello there, it is nice to be obsessed with that!
16:11.55jaminkle:/
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16:52.59minuteCan you send me a screenshot of the troubles in Safari 2, appers to be working alright in Safari 3 BETA.
16:53.13minute(I don't have a Mac, unfourtunatley :()
17:15.22jaminkle>.>
18:24.45CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libdm/ (dm-ogl.c dm-wgl.c): Set flag to clear back buffer in drawBegin routine.
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19:29.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Move call to itk_initialize up a bit. This fixes the problem of the main canvas' background not getting set. Added a call to writePreferences in the destructor.
20:01.10CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_tree.c: s/shaderlen/shader_len/
20:02.42minutejaminkle: <.<
20:03.30``ErikO.o
20:05.11CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/adrt.h: force enum values instead of "hoping". define the name size limit.
20:11.07CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/main.c: change naming prefix
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20:59.58CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/ (Makefile.am load.c load.h slave.c slave.h): reorg to reduce prototypes
21:07.01CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl: Move a few methods related to editing from ArcherCore to Archer.
21:23.03CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (NEWS src/external/ProEngineer/proe-brl.c):
21:23.10CIA-29BRL-CAD: update the pro/e plugin so that it also now implements the first half of sf
21:23.17CIA-29BRL-CAD: request [ 1159469 ] "Pro/E converter improvements" whereby it now more
21:23.23CIA-29BRL-CAD: appropriately parses the part number to part name mapping file and allows part
21:23.27CIA-29BRL-CAD: names that have spaces in the name. instead of stopping at the first
21:23.34CIA-29BRL-CAD: whitespace, it now reads until the end of the line and extracts the part name,
21:23.39CIA-29BRL-CAD: allowing for an arbitrary amount of surrounding whitespace that it trims off.
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21:47.58CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: improve the framebuffer support for HDR imagery, an alpha channel for transparency, and configurable timeouts on remove framebuffers.
22:06.44*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@212.15.176.104)
23:05.58CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/usrfmt.h: ws consistency cleanup
23:06.30CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.c: major ws and style consistency cleanup
23:07.41CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (interact.c dist_def.c): use c99 fmax instead of max macro, might need configure support
23:08.17CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (if.c command.c): use c99 fabs() instead of abs macro, might need configure support
23:09.44CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.h: clean ws and style consistency, document origin, remove min/max/abs and DEBUG_FORMAT (raytrace.h provides it), add header wrapper protection
23:15.28CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/interact.c: ws and style consistency cleanup
23:19.45``Erikhehehe
23:20.34louipcI always thought lisp was a scripting language.
23:20.57starseekerIt can be used that way, but I don't think it usually is
23:21.23louipcso you can make binaries from the code eh?
23:21.43starseekerSort of.  It's like java - you need the environment
23:21.58louipcoh
23:22.57starseekerIt's a pretty awesome language for flexibility and power, but it's lib support is a bit behind
23:25.29starseeker(especially on the graphics side - McCLIM has the potential to be incredible but it needs a lot of work)
23:27.51``Erikum, actually, some implementations and spew out standalone that doesn't need the environment
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23:28.18starseekerSome of the commercial ones maybe
23:28.19louipcvlisp isn't along the lines of vbasic or vc++ is it? hehheh
23:28.21``Erikand I know there're a couple schemes that can spew out C to compile, or some even compile into jvm .class files
23:28.31starseekerlouipc:  It claims to be a verified scheme
23:28.36starseekerlouipc:  whatever that means
23:29.05starseekerhttp://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/guttman95vlisp.html
23:29.10``Erik<-- on the scheme side, not the cl... so knows the pretty toys for scheme :D bigloo, sisc, schemetoc, ...
23:30.49``Erikit's a neat idea, but cosmic rays still blow bits clean off the silicon :( I think some of hte ultrasparcs and ibm biggies actually did a given computation several times in parallel and made sure the results are all the same
23:31.07starseekerOh, sure - you have to verify the hardware
23:31.24``Erikpretty similar, but there're some big gotchas... like functions live in a seperate symbol space than variables
23:31.34CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (bsphere.c command.c dist_def.c): more ws and style consistency cleanup
23:32.02``Erikin lisp... that's been screwing me up, you get weirdness like defvar defun, etc... and you can't just USE the variable, like scheme can do ((alpha) 'beta)
23:32.17``Erikwhere alpha returns a function, and that snipped executes that function with beta as the arg
23:32.19starseekerHmm.  From the standpoint of a CAS with integrated proof software, a foundation like VLISP might be a Really Really Good Thing
23:32.41``Erikother than that, just library stuff, mostly
23:32.46``Erikand macros
23:33.02``Erikscheme usually offers both hygenic and 'lispy' macros
23:33.21starseekerCool.
23:33.24``Erikthough the hygenic ones are the only mandated ones in r5
23:35.25``Erikdoubt it, a major philosophy is to keep the core language tiny and extend it with srfi's
23:35.53starseekerMight be some merit to that - Lisp's monumental spec still didn't specify enough
23:37.10starseekerIt would be an interesting exercise to attempt porting the "major" lisp apps and libraries over to a scheme - I wonder what the practical differences would be
23:38.10starseekerNow if someone has done a verified Machine Forth...
23:39.17starseekerapparently not
23:39.39starseekerHrm.
23:40.28starseekerAmazing really - every time I turn around I find another major piece of work on verification I didn't know existed.  It must take the real pros years of full time reading to learn the field
23:50.58``ErikI imagine there'd be a lot of hunting for the right scheme to do a port like that... all those toys built into cl... kinda like javas class library
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071218

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071218

00:08.44*** join/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
00:12.07CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/command.c: uffer
00:13.51CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/nirt.c: say it's natalie's
00:14.51CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c: clean up ws and style, clean up bu_exit and error reporting calls, clean up header
00:15.07CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/ (conversion.c if.c parse_fmt.c read_mat.c str_manip.c): ws and style consistency cleanup
00:16.05illethalWhat do these commands mean?
00:16.26brlcadwhat commands?
00:16.41illethalbirlcad/src/nird/nird.c:
00:16.45illethalnirt
00:16.46illethalLmao
00:16.52illethalLooks like a directory.
00:16.53brlcadthose are source code commits
00:17.04brlcadchanges to brl-cad announced live as they happen
00:17.24illethalOh that's awesome.
00:17.40brlcadso project "BRL-CAD", user "brlcad", edited file "brlcad/src/nirt/showshot.c" and the comment that followed for that particular edit
00:18.04illethalI see now.
00:18.40illethalSo, you're one of the founders of brl cad, or do you just operate this channel?
00:20.30brlcadi'm one of the devs
00:20.41brlcadbrl-cad's been under active development for decades
00:21.01illethalOoh.
00:21.03CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: investigate rt_shootray() backing out the ray when inside an object and nirt's -b backout option. perhaps it used to not back out the ray automatically? should make sure the change wasn't unintentional.
00:21.07illethalDid you ever meet Mike Muuss?
00:21.13brlcadyep
00:21.19brlcadhe's the reason I fell in love with BRL-CAD
00:21.27illethalHe was awesome.
00:21.34brlcadand why I took up the torch of maintainership
00:22.28illethalGotta love ping.
00:23.19brlcadhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3996 for some fun stats of the project
00:24.04brlcadanyway, love to chat but gotta run out for a bit to catch a movie, see ya around!
00:24.43illethalOkay.
00:24.45illethalSee ya!
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06:47.06CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/isst_python.c: eek, fix a few of the bad strncat/strncpy sizes that were put on arg 2 instead of 3. manually null-terminate for safety.
07:07.53CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (11 files in 8 dirs): null-terminate strncat'd buffers for sanity sake since we don't usually check if we filled/truncated
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07:48.11Defconlol
07:48.24DefconThe Code Project Weekly Poll Results:
07:48.33Defcon"Who has the final say in decisions on a software project?"
07:48.40DefconOptionVotes%
07:48.40DefconThe Customer70340.57
07:48.50Defcon...more options...
07:48.59DefconThe lucky-8 ball1428.19
07:49.02Defconhaha
07:49.36Defcon8.19% relies on the 8 ball :)
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10:40.26*** mode/#brlcad [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net
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13:36.23Defcondamn CSS based printing
13:36.28Defconcringe
15:48.22CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am: treeInit.sh no longer exists
15:52.13CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/enigma/enigma.c: quell warning, need #define _XOPEN_SOURCE to get crypt from unistd.h on SGI linux
16:08.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS:
16:08.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: annotate/migrate here the bug from sf bug tracker item [ 925408 ] "mk_lcomb() in
16:08.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: libwdb fails on large combinations" .. the bug was too low-priority and
16:08.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: developer-centric to have lingering in the sf tracker indefinitely, but worth
16:08.10CIA-29BRL-CAD: keeping a note of here.
17:03.35CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: have to include the always_compile files in the DIST_SUBDIRS else they feel left out
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17:36.10CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: quell Tcl_PkgProvide warning
17:36.12CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: remove carriage returns, add footer, add missing headers and a RESOURCE_INCLUDED define for using a system-installed itcl.h
17:38.32CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/Makefile.am: add tclcad.c to libtclcad. this makes libtclcad loadable by Tcl!
18:22.55CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/ (9 files): merge in the newer stuff
18:33.27CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/isst.h: remove unnecessary include
18:33.59CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/slave.c: ISST_OP_SHOT is now ADRT_WORK_SHOTLINE
19:10.38CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_sort.c: add missing arg...
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19:39.52CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (cmd.c cmd.h chgview.c): Added the following two commands: ae2dir and viewdir.
19:42.22CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h: Added V3AE2DIR.
19:43.52CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: Declare vo_viewDir_cmd() and vo_ae2dir_cmd().
19:45.37CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: Added vo_ae2dir_cmd and vo_ae2dir_tcl.
19:50.16CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/Makefile.am: remove unnecessasry stuff
20:01.13CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/Makefile.am: remove unnecessary stuff
20:26.49Z80-Boybrlcad: the rt -d1 generates doubles in the network order, doesn't he?
20:54.26*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@213.147.110.16)
21:06.57CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/lib/ (QuadDisplay.tcl View.tcl): Added ae2dir.
21:10.14CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/tclscripts/helplib.tcl: Added help string for ae2dir.
21:34.19CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/configure.ac: libtclcad needs blt linked
21:34.52``Erikhum, a blt sounds nice :/ shoulda gone otu to lunch
21:37.16CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/observer/Makefile.am: don't build this. Ever. Yet...
21:39.51CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/master/ (7 files): generify function names a bit (hopefully leading to unification of the various compute chunks)
21:43.49CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/Makefile.am: welcome to the "always build" club, libcommon and isst.
21:56.09*** join/#brlcad SWPadnos (n=Me@dsl107.esjtvtli.sover.net)
22:06.06CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libtie/tie_define.h: change to use vmath macros
22:07.09CIA-29BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/libutil/umath.h: remove redundant macros
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071219

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071219

00:17.29*** join/#brlcad cad95 (n=8d951a8f@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:51.03*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
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05:53.37*** join/#brlcad ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
05:53.37*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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13:36.03``Erika/det
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15:01.59Defcon<3 iTextSharp from SourceForge
15:22.49``ErikO.o
15:40.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/libtclcad/tclcad.c: This hack is required for compilation on windows, atleast until I figure out what's really going on.
15:52.24*** join/#brlcad docelic (n=docelic@ms122-2-gprs01.net.vip.hr)
16:25.09CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/tcl/Makefile.am: fix the distcheck, the upgrade incremented the version numbers of some of the .tm files, so change INSTALL_ARCHIVES to be *any* version
16:29.37CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/anim/anim_sort.c: reserve was already decreased, need to add space remaining/expected
16:31.38brlcadwoohoo, netbsd 4 is out
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19:59.21brlcadMaking all in slave
19:59.21brlcadmake[5]: Entering directory `/vld/other/morrison/brlcad/brlcad-7.11.0/=build/src/adrt/isst/slave'
19:59.24brlcadgcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../../../../src/adrt/isst/slave -I../../../../include   -I/usr/local/include -DBRLCADBUILD=1 -I../../../../../include -I../../../../../src/adrt -I../../../../../src/adrt/libtie -I../../../../../src/adrt/libtienet -I../../../../../src/adrt/libtexture -I../../../../../src/adrt/librender -I../../../../../src/adrt/libutil -I../../../../../src/adrt/isst  -DHAVE_MYSQL=1 -I/usr/local/include/mysql -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing
19:59.31brlcad../../../../../src/adrt/isst/slave/load.c:38:20: mysql.h: No such file or directory
20:12.22*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p5487432E.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:12.28``Erikheh, woops
20:13.29*** join/#brlcad Z80-Boy (i=clock@217-162-109-92.dclient.hispeed.ch)
20:14.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/Makefile.am: force mysql off by default to allow the build to pass
20:24.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/Makefile.am: turn mysql off harder...
20:27.39archivist<PROTECTED>
20:29.03brlcadi think it's clean again now
20:29.15``Erikin which rise breaks horribly? :D
20:30.20brlcada bunch of files were missing, couple typos, some failures
20:30.35``Erikyes, violent flux
20:30.42brlcadhappens
20:30.48``Erikmebbe I shoulda kicked a branch
20:31.09brlcadnah, most of the stuff was outside adrt -- adrt can at least be disabled easily
20:31.19brlcadit's active dev and an easy fix
20:31.39brlcadyou found one of the typos yesterday, conflicted my commit
20:31.43brlcadthe strncat
20:32.10``Erikin anim, yeah
20:33.43``Erikwill it run on a desk lamp?
20:36.42``Erikhum, flight gear 1.0.0 O.o haven't played that in a bit
20:36.53brlcadon 54 different system architectures
20:37.00brlcad17 distinct cpus
20:37.07brlcadhttp://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-announce/2007/12/19/0000.html
20:41.55brlcadhehe, in the /. perl comments..  "Away - away foul Lisp advocate, and darken not my doors again!"
20:46.51archivistpackages removed! UUCP aww
21:42.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS:
21:42.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: fixed empty name crash when using mged 'lt' command. this should fix a bug
21:42.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: encountered in some crash logs that Craig Barker had and some mged crashes that
21:42.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: he reported with 7.10.4. the problem was an empty name being passed to lt which
21:42.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: ended up getting passed to bu_log as a null ... argument, which subequently
21:42.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: caused the fwrite to fail and bu_bomb to kick off.
21:43.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/db_lookup.c:
21:43.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: fixed empty name crash when using mged 'lt' command. this should fix a bug
21:43.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: encountered in some crash logs that Craig Barker had and some mged crashes that
21:43.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: he reported with 7.10.4. the problem was an empty name being passed to lt which
21:43.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: ended up getting passed to db_lookup and later bu_log as a null ... argument,
21:43.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: which subequently caused the fwrite to fail and bu_bomb to kick off.
21:45.31CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: ws
22:13.59CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: return gracefully instead of bombing if there is nothing to print into, or nothing to print in bu_vls_vprintf
22:27.46CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/vls.c: gah, I'm making a habit of this lately or apparently too much shell scripting, haven't made these typos in years
22:30.04CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: try stdout just in case something is wrong with stderr when logging before fatally aborting the app. there's probably something wrong either way, but until we can set/redirect bu_log -- try harder to not fail.
22:33.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (10 files in 5 dirs): manuallly null-terminate buffers after a strncat for sanity
22:42.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libfb/if_remote.c: ws and style cleanup on rem_open, init vars
22:46.53CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: note that ::key=val;key2=val2; might work well for setting a timeout on remote framebuffers (e.g. -F::host=brlcad.org;port=3;timeout=40;)
22:59.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/linebuf.c: avoid passing a null FILE to setvbuf
23:03.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/log.c: do the same protections to bu_putchar that bu_log had to try stdout if stderr fails or is unavailable. instead of blindly trying stdout/stderr, make sure they're not NULL FILE pointers first and fail accordingly.
23:31.22brlcadstarseeker: if bicatali (or you) have patches for the Makefile.am's that make it work properly, there's no problem making the mods -- the things he mentioned about it dropping stuff in /usr/brlcad/doc and "all around the system" (for html, ex) sounds like bugs or at least is unintentional and could probably be fixed.
23:32.49starseekerbrlcad:  Cool, thanks!
23:32.58brlcadI'd expect bin, lib, include, and man to be well-behaved -- the trick and problems are probably on the datadir for everything he mentioned, maybe/likely something we need to change
23:33.26brlcadif you know what those changes need to be, just make them or lemme know and I'll make them
23:33.42starseekerI'm not sure yet - I haven't had a chance to try his solution yet
23:33.53starseekerHopefully he can provide more detail
23:34.14brlcadi mean, there's still the big problem he mentioned about things like librt that aren't easily resolved in the lib dir, but the rest should work
23:34.22starseekerRight
23:34.33starseekerThe makefile.am patch should be on the site, actually...
23:36.45starseekerYeah, this is it:  http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=131177
23:37.14brlcadmore a matter of hm, those are fixes to tcl's build system
23:37.35starseekerRight.  Dunno if they're worth adding to our local tree?
23:40.22starseekerIIRC it was a file conflict between the man page install from the system tcl/tk and the BRL-CAD copy, but I'd have to check
23:41.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/other/ (tk/unix/Makefile.in tcl/unix/Makefile.in): apply the gentoo ebuild tcl/tk build system patch that conditionally installs the manpages (someone should try to push this upstream)
23:45.06starseekerHey brlcad, are the BLT libraries external to the BRL-CAD project?
23:45.35starseekerI.e this BLT?  http://blt.sourceforge.net/
23:47.59brlcadyes
23:48.08brlcadarcher uses blt
23:48.19brlcadand it's frankly a pita :)
23:48.29brlcadbut it works very well for archer's purposes
23:50.11starseekerAh.
23:50.30starseekerOK, that's in the gentoo tree - he may be right about the overlay having enough support
23:50.43brlcadopennurbs is in there?
23:51.12starseekerLet me check...
23:51.18starseeker(is that no longer disabled?)
23:52.30starseekerHmm.  Nope, no opennurbs
23:54.42brlcadit's not supposed to be disabled, but it can (somewhat easily) be disabled
23:54.46starseekerAh
23:54.48brlcadin the real near future, though, it won't
23:55.03starseekerHang on, I might be able to whip up an ebuild...
23:55.16brlcadprobably by 7.14.0 it'll be always on
23:55.43starseekerErm... what's the opennurb license?  They require a product unlock code?
23:56.13brlcadno, they're a clauseless unlimited license
23:57.01starseekerHuh.  Weird.  I wonder why they're emailing an unlock code - collecting emails of interested users?
23:57.37starseekerew - a zip file
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071220

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071220

00:00.15starseekerOK, that was really weird, but it worked.  Does BRL-CAD need the zlib copy included with it?
00:00.46``Eriksrc/other/libz ?
00:01.18starseekeropennurbs/zlib
00:01.59brlcadno, but to remove it requires a few mods
00:02.02starseekersorry - the opennurbs tarball has a copy of zlib
00:02.05starseekerah :-)
00:02.25brlcadwe've modified them in our src tree, but we're also one release behind them now
00:02.45starseekerah
00:02.50brlcadi had to make a slew of cross-platform compilation fixes too, but maybe they've fixed those
00:03.27brlcadfortunately, all of our big mods have been left out of their source tree
00:03.51brlcad"we" (jason) implemented a lot of the functions that they took out of opennurbs
00:04.05brlcadas they intentionally don't want it used the way we're using it
00:04.22starseekerThat's annoying
00:04.29brlcad(i.e. as part of a nurbs evaluation kernel)
00:04.52brlcadas they see it as directly competing with one of their commercial products they sell
00:04.58starseekerSo BRL-CAD can use (in theory) an external copy?
00:05.02starseekerindeed
00:05.03brlcadin theory
00:05.19brlcadlike I said, haven't tried the latest
00:05.34brlcadyou might want to try upgrading our copy first, just in case there were api changes
00:05.41brlcadmight/should be easier
00:05.57brlcadthen work on making the patch that the ebuild will need from their zip
00:06.13brlcadhow is the ebuild supposed to get the zip?
00:06.21starseekergot me
00:06.28starseekermay require fetch restrictions
00:06.31brlcadiirc, they have this click-through contact form
00:06.49brlcadyou don't have to fill in anything, but you can't get to the download link without going through it iirc
00:07.06starseekerwell, if it's free Gentoo can make a tarball :-)
00:07.12brlcadand host it?
00:07.24starseekermaybe.  or we could
00:08.08brlcadI wouldn't without an okay from mcneel, and that's not likely given how we use it
00:08.23brlcadeven if license-wise there's no reason we couldn't
00:08.56starseekerHmm
00:09.07starseekerok
00:09.26brlcadbut you're welcome to ask :)
00:09.31starseekerhehe
00:09.54brlcadyay, one of my stitches just came out
00:10.07brlcadthat's been irritating for days
00:10.09starseekerI'll let the Gentoo devs ask :-P
00:10.18brlcadheh, that works
00:10.44``Eriksoluble stitches?
00:11.55brlcadyeah
00:17.41``Erikcool beans
01:15.28starseekerbrlcad:  So are the opennurbs guys actively annoyed with us, or they just didn't provide the functions jason recreated in order to avoid making it TOO easy for the competition?
01:33.31brlcadstarseeker: i'm not sure I'd characterize it as annoyed or not, I don't know -- but I do know that they openly state that using the library as part of any geometric modeling kernel is and was not the reason that the sources are provided and that they specifically will *not* help anyone using it in that regard
01:35.09brlcadif you read through their news/mailing list for the past couple years (archived on their site iirc), you'll see at least a half dozen questions that come up with people trying to use it as such where they reiterate that it's not supposed to be used for that and they don't provide any help
04:19.40Axman6sound like a bunch of wankers. how does doing that help anyone?
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05:08.31Axman6.......................
05:08.34Axman6oh god
05:08.39starseekerThank goodness the stix font beta had already come and gone or I would have started suspecting an early April 1st
05:09.59starseekerAxman6:  Exactly :-)
05:11.19starseekerAs much as I have to grit my teeth to say it - Good for Microsoft;  well done
05:13.06Axman6only what, two years too late?
05:13.28starseeker``Erik:  Do you by any chance have autoconf build logic for opennurbs that could be used for a stand alone install?  They don't seem to have even a make install command...
05:13.35starseekerHeh - better late than never
05:13.56starseekerFrom what I recall, ACID2 stumped everyone for a while - I think Konqueror was the first to get it right?
05:14.09Axman6Safari was the first
05:14.21starseekerAh, right
05:14.23Axman6which then meant konquorer came next, then opera
05:15.31Axman6and now the KDE guys have basically dropped the main khtml stuff, and they're going to use Apple's WebKit for konqueror... because bugs get fixed faster :P
05:17.37starseekerHey, as long as it works :-)
05:17.58starseekerI guess you could call WebKit khtml2.0, based on where it came from...
05:18.54Axman6well khtml basically died about a year ago. there's been no work on it for ages
05:19.41Axman6Apple have done a fantastic job with webkit, fast, makes things look good, very standards complient
05:20.00starseekerHard to argue with that, and if the licensing is OK why not use it?
05:21.01Axman6yeah, not sure what it's licence is actually, good chance it's GPL though
05:21.22starseekerApple does good work, as a rule
05:21.38starseekerThe problem is (for me at least) they charge accordingly :-)
05:21.55Axman6well i could seriously imagine steve standing behind guys witha whip...
05:22.07Axman6macs are cheap these days man, and so's OS X
05:22.29starseekerThey aren't bad, but Linux is free and almost all of it is open :-)
05:23.10starseekerOne thing about Mac OSX's graphics systems - they are very definitely NOT open
05:23.41Axman6linux is a play thing for me, there's just not enough polish with it, things are still too hard to use, and it lacks the consistancy i get with OS X. i know linux definitely has it's place, but i don't think that's the desktop yet
05:23.41starseekerPlus, as time goes by I'm coming more and more to appreciate the X method of communication - it is relatively language independent
05:24.10Axman6heh, X is one of the main reasons i don't like linux
05:25.06starseekerX is actually quite an excellent piece of work, but it didn't get the fancy stuff until recently thanks to the XFree86 organizational setup (as I understand it)
05:25.14Axman6yeah, that argument usually doesn't go down very well on irc... but you're talking to people who irc, so they're not going to be your average joe ;)
05:25.23starseekerI remember noticing a lot of abrupt improvements in Cygwin's X support after Xorg took off...
05:26.54Axman6i just think the structure of X is stupid. i don't understand using a client server model when you're using a single machine. X forwarding is nice ish, but there are other ways, and that should really be a side thing these days
05:26.59Axman6if that makes any sense
05:27.59starseekerWell, the advantage of client-server is that you don't have to care what programming languages are being used in client or server.  Programming a GUI on Mac OSX in anything other than Objective C requires some FFI work at some layer, as I understand it
05:28.48Axman6well you can use many different things like QT and gtk if you want
05:28.56starseekerThe X architecture is one of the reasons Lisp can talk to it well - it doesn't require an FFI bridge
05:29.26starseekerOh, sure - you can use a lib to paper over the differences if someone has written one (and QT is a good one by all the accounts I have heard)
05:29.43starseekerBut the client/server flexibility still makes many things easier in the end
05:30.12starseekerSorta like the trend towards web clients for apps, although I'm not terribly impressed with that personally...
05:30.48Axman6still, if you've ever used a mac for a while, you start to feel that the gui is really 'solid' its hard to explain, but with X and the windows managers you use, you can feel that windows are made of little bitmaps and such
05:31.10starseekerSure.  I'm not claiming OSX isn't more polished - it is
05:31.26starseekerBut to me that's less critical than the core technologies behind it :-)
05:32.12starseekerApples technologies are probably pretty good overall (unless you're trying to make an McCLIM backend to the OSX graphics layer...) but they're also completely closed up
05:32.58starseekerHeh - I've gotta hit the hay here before my head demolishes my keyboard... I like this keyboard
05:33.33Axman6i also like how easy the tools for OS X are to use for the gui. you drag and drop some stuff, put it where it tells you, and you end up with a HIG complient interface, that's fully OpenGL backed, and looks great
05:33.45Axman6haha, ok man, take care
05:34.11starseekerIf you don't like X, you might take a look at http://picogui.org/ or http://fresco.org/
05:36.08Axman6interesting
06:41.41brlcadAxman6: I don't see them as wankers, it was pretty cool/useful that they released openNURBS at all, and they're not actively prohibiting anyone -- they're just not going to help make a direct competitor to a product they sell
06:42.35brlcadthe reason they released it was to give people free 3DM read/write file support for the Rhino file format -- we could really trivially write a Rhino-to-BRL-CAD importer/exporter now
06:45.21Axman6yeah
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08:48.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/vmath.h:
08:48.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: provide DEG2RAD and RAD2DEG constants for pi/180 and 180/pi; rename the new
08:48.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: V3AE2DIR to V3DIR_FROM_AZEL to be more consistent with other vmath macros,
08:48.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: similarly making first arg the dir instead of last; implement the complementary
08:48.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: AZEL_FROM_V3DIR for setting an az/el from a direction vector as well (untested)
08:49.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: update from V3AE2DIR to newly renamed V3DIR_FROM_AZEL macro name
08:55.04Z80-BoyDid anyone from here already get contacted by Google recruitment?
08:55.26brlcadhuh?
08:55.30CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/const.c: use the vmath.h/math.h macros where available (math.h are generally higher precision), convert all constants to fastf_t values.
08:56.14Z80-BoyThey said they have Vont Cerf and Ken Thomson
08:56.17Z80-BoyVint
08:57.20brlcadthey hire all sorts of people ... like many many many companies
08:59.55Z80-BoyIs it true they are famous for secretivity?
09:00.21Axman6sounds more like apple. google are pretty open
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09:39.07Z80-Boybrlcad: do you someone who could donate his superfluous supercomputing capacity for ocassional rendering of a project like Ronja?
09:39.32Z80-BoyLike I would like to make the video anti-aliased but that would render a month...
09:39.43Z80-Boyon my laptop
09:50.14Axman6Z80-Boy: what're you rendering and how?
09:50.29Z80-BoyAxman6: Ronja models, using BRL-CAD rt
09:51.09Axman6right, never heard of ronja
09:51.24Z80-Boyhttp://ronja.twibright.com/3d/
09:52.48Axman6hmm, i'm confused now
09:53.06Axman6are mounting brackets really that interesting? :P
09:54.43Z80-BoyThere are no mounting brackets on the page I posted. Mounting brackets are mentioned in the news on the title page and there is no 3D model of mounting brackets./
09:56.49Axman6the pics look like mounting brackets to me, but anyway. looks like a cool idea now i know what it does
09:57.14Z80-Boyaha I thought you are talking about the specific part of Ronja that is officially called mounting brackets
09:57.59Z80-BoyThe 3D models are important for people to know how to put all the parts together.
09:58.17Z80-BoyAlso to see what it looks like how it's interfaced to the building etc.
09:58.28Z80-BoyHow bulky it is
09:58.31Axman6yeah
09:58.55Axman6what's wrong with wifi and parabolic reflectors anyway? :P
09:59.07Z80-BoyThere's nothing wrong with them
09:59.18Z80-BoyThey just have a different set of advantages and weaknesses
10:00.51Z80-BoyHere is some discussion of possible problems with WiFi that Ronja can be a solution for: http://ronja.twibright.com/wifi.php
10:13.53vedgeZ80-Boy: very cool. i know some people who are having problems with interference from airplanes in my area and it's so bad they're basically stuck with an unreliable cable ISP because of this.
10:14.31vedgewe have a very good wifi provider, and i know people there have been trying to figure out a way around this problem. i'll send them the link.
10:18.17Z80-BoyI had an Internet connection through 2 Ronjas in series and it was quite reliable
10:18.30Z80-BoyThe biggest problem was they were still prototypes and in process of debugging
10:18.51Z80-BoyBut they still genrally appeared to be more reliable than wifis and cables we had in the same network :)
10:26.55vedgecool
10:28.36vedgei'm opening a pcb shop, in case you're looking for a small/medium qty manufacturer in north america
10:36.10archivistvedge #electronics has people asking about pcb makers now and again
10:36.55Z80-Boyvedge: I already have a company where I send prototypes
10:39.53Z80-Boyvedge: can you send post order internationally?
10:41.05Z80-BoyCan you do all the necessary technologies - HAL, through plating, solder mask, edge routing?
10:41.11Z80-BoyI mean edge milling
10:45.42vedgearchivist: thanks for the tip
10:46.14vedgeZ80-Boy: i'm in canada, i think sending small pcbs internationally through canada post would be around $10
10:47.11Z80-BoyIf you were interested you could sell the Ronja PCBs and I could put you on the website as a supplier
10:47.22vedgei can do all of this, but i don't have a machine in my PCB assembly line for edge milling, extra setup time would be involved for that
10:47.45Z80-BoyThe transmitter has 3 rectangular millings
10:48.05Z80-Boycan you dissolve the cost in a larger series?
10:48.49vedgei wonder if punch pressing would work for PCB material, that would be a lot cheaper than actual milling.
10:48.51Z80-BoyHere is the old shop http://ronjashop.com/info.php?lang=en
10:48.53vedgeyes
10:49.06Z80-BoyI don't know if this guy is still operating
10:49.17Z80-BoyHe doesn't seem to having upgraded from Twister to Twister2
10:49.24archivistpressing is normal for paper boards
10:49.33Z80-BoyHe has the prices on his website you could see if you can be competitive
10:50.06Z80-BoyOf course only in case such a small project is actually interesting for you financially
10:52.46vedgemy equipment is not entirely ready for production just yet, i'm still working on the testing phase. i'll get back to you on this.
10:53.41vedgei have basically all of the fabrication equipment ready, but no testing system.
10:54.40Z80-Boyyou mean electrical and optical testing?
10:55.53vedgeyes
10:56.02vedgeand i can't exactly afford a $200k "bed of nails"
10:57.12Z80-BoyI wonder if with all the cost of handling individual orders a project like Ronja could be interesting for you financially
10:57.40archivistheh send RF testing to me in the UK
10:57.51Z80-BoyIt should theoretically be a small, but continuous income
10:58.31Z80-BoyLike the Ronjashop sold already about 500 boards IIRC
10:58.55Z80-BoyIt's actually a student who always orders a series of 100 or 200 and then sells it apart individually
10:59.16Z80-BoyYou get 1/6 of the price you would pay if you ordered your board individually in a PCB manufacturere.
10:59.34vedgeoh, this is exactly the sort of project i'm interested into.
10:59.44Z80-Boythat's good
10:59.59vedgei have a mostly-automated assembly line, i order films and supplies in bulk, but it's far from being a big plant.
11:00.15Z80-BoyCan you do optical testing?
11:00.48Z80-BoyI think below 3 pieces no testing is prescribed and above 3 optical I am not sure
11:01.22Z80-BoyOne should also check if the gerbers can be loaded into your system. I am using a free software that generates the negative drawing command which some softwares that don
11:01.22vedgewhat do you mean by optical testing?
11:01.32Z80-Boyt implement RS 274-X completely cannot crunch
11:01.43vedgeoh, sure. i'm using my own software for this.
11:01.45Z80-BoyMaking a picture of the board and comparing with a reference picture
11:01.51Z80-Boyto find copper bridges gaps etc.
11:02.44Z80-BoyYou could even sell with part bags if it were interesting for you, like kits - would be more convenient for the user, would increase interest in the project and sales
11:03.00Z80-BoyNow the interest is going down due to 5GHz WiFi competition.
11:03.14Z80-BoyAnd because people have to buy all the parts themselves
11:04.17Z80-BoyI hope once maybe someone manages to run a shop like this and sponsor my project so I can improve the kilometers and megabits increase interest and his sales
11:04.23Z80-BoyKinda mutual symbiosis
11:07.01vedgeas far as optical testing goes, i suppose it would depend on the resolution. i don't have a microscope unfortunately.
11:07.22Z80-BoyOr can you manufacture it reliably?
11:07.27vedgei have a machine shop, i could probably manufacture parts but i don't know if it would be cost effective at all. i'd have to look more closely at the model.
11:07.44Z80-BoyI don't mean machine parts, but electronics parts
11:07.52Z80-Boydiodes transistors resistors LEDs HC gates
11:09.40vedgesure, but it's just a matter of cost. my process is reliable but i still need to figure out bare-PCB testing
11:10.38vedgeif put a potentially defect board on the pick and place and then functional testing reveals problems i can't really recover the parts.
11:21.15Z80-Boyvedge: I don't mean that you would populate the boards. That would be an unnecessary cost. The user can populate it himself easily.
11:23.34vedgei'm not sure optical comparison would be that useful with my process. i'd expect most defects to involve the vias, as opposed to the surface of the board, unless there are very tiny features.
11:24.12Z80-Boyvedge: I misinformed with an old information. The existing shop apparently already upgraded to Twister2.
11:24.13vedgepopulating the boards isn't expensive for me if the components are SMT
11:24.55Z80-BoySome are not
11:25.41Z80-Boyyou could pre-populate the SMT ones, though.
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13:00.15Defconoem version :D
13:00.19Defconguess not ^^
13:01.06MaloeranYou think so? I'll look for the usual refund clause in the EULA
13:01.42MaloeranI think the point is mostly to annoy HP for forcing me to buy software I didn't want
13:02.21Z80-BoyForcing? Noone is forcing you into buying anything :)
13:02.33Z80-BoyYou had an option to not buy the whole notbeook
13:03.38Defconno
13:03.53Defconthere was another case just like this
13:04.04Defconthe guy won like 1200$ back
13:04.13minutewtf?
13:04.20Z80-Boyand how much did he pay for lawyers?
13:04.30Defconhe won
13:04.37Defconso nothing..?
13:05.01Z80-BoyIn such case I prefer designing my own hardware that works 100%.
13:05.12Z80-BoyCourts and lawyers are inherently unreliable and can backfire
13:05.27Defconindeed
13:05.48Z80-BoyFor example since I made myself Ronja, I now don't have to care about NDA binary-only WiFi drivers, bugs in WiFi firmware and how badly they designed their access method
13:06.16MaloeranZ80-Boy, I didn't sign the EULA before buying the laptop
13:06.21MaloeranAnd there's clearly a refund clause in there
13:06.26Z80-BoyMaloeran: that's good
13:06.53Z80-BoyMaloeran: so you should get your money back easily, shouldn't you
13:07.18MaloeranTheorically, yes. I'm sure they don't enjoy doing this though
13:07.36Z80-BoyNoone enjoys coughing up money
13:07.37Defconhttp://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/94705/index.html
13:07.50Defconi thought he got more money than this
13:08.18Maloeran140 euros, not too bad
13:10.22Z80-BoyNoone should really complain about hardware anymore since we have free software for designing hardware
13:10.23Defconindeed not
13:10.31Z80-BoyAnd we have that already for several years
13:10.56Defconppl tend to complain very fast
13:11.04Z80-BoyIt's like - you don't like Microsoft Windows? Take Linux. If you don't like that one, pimp it up until you like it ;-)
13:11.52Maloeranhttp://www.rayforce.net/hp000.png
13:11.56Z80-BoyOr like complaining that AutoCAD is crap and not taking BRL-CAD
13:12.03Defconand what if ppl can't pimp it up
13:12.35Defconlol Maloeran
13:13.23MaloeranLooks clear enough to me
13:14.00Z80-BoyDoesn't Leninovo sell notebooks without Windows?
13:15.01Z80-BoyBy using Vista you agree to a) not have any opinion b) stop thinking c) obey everything Microsoft says d) voluntarily and irrevocably giving up your all human rights to Microsoft Corporation (MSFT)
13:15.56DefconDon't sell your soul to the devil!
13:16.49Z80-BoyI don't like products for whose usage I need a lawyer
13:17.08Z80-BoyLawyers are expensive and it totals up pretty expensive :)
13:22.40Defconhaha yeah
13:23.45MaloeranThe point is more to get these companies to stop trying to force buying software on people
13:24.19MaloeranAlthough I'm leaving for south america in 4 days, it's not the best timing to begin even a brief legal battle
13:25.36Defcon:D
13:27.49minuteMaloeran: They aren't forcing people to buy antyhing.
13:28.20minuteYou choose to buy a laptop that comes with Vista installed, you could easily choose to purchase a laptop that doesn't.
13:28.32Defconif you want that particular laptop/.. they are
13:28.52Maloeranminute, there's an EULA that states I can get a refund for it
13:28.53Defconas a customer you have the right to buy the laptop without software
13:28.57Defconindeed
13:29.02MaloeranI didn't agree to the EULA before purchasing the laptop
13:29.27minuteMaloeran: So get a refund?
13:29.36MaloeranWill try to
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19:12.49*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
20:18.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (38 files in 38 dirs): Initial check-in.
20:22.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/brlcad/brlcad.sln: Added 38 more projects. Mostly fb utils and their missing libs.
20:26.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: Define HAVE_RAND and fmax.
20:29.27CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/orle.h: Added ORLE_EXPORT for exposing variables and functions on windows.
20:30.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/include/vfont-if.h: Mods to expose vfont_get() and vfont_free() on windows.
20:32.25CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/fb/ (8 files): Mods to get things compiling on windows.
20:35.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/include/rle.h: Mods to expose variables and functions.
20:37.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/src/other/libutahrle/ (rle_getrow.c rle_open_f.c scanargs.c include/rle_config.h): Mods to get things compiling on windows.
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21:59.18starseekerwee
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22:56.58CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/ (44 files in 44 dirs): Clean up the project files a little.
23:44.25yukonbobyay! Looks like Tcl 8.5.0 out today...
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071221

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071221

00:45.58louipchurrah
00:57.22Maloeran"I regret to inform you that there is no return policy for the Vista software, either as a refund or a credit from HP."  Hum...
00:57.31starseekerTCL 8.5 is out????
00:59.44starseekerI'll be doggoned:  http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10894&package_id=10452
01:00.13starseekerWell, that could simplify matters...
01:05.13louipcMaloeran: sorry
01:05.56louipcI wouldn't think you'd be the type of person to buy a ready-made computer
01:18.07Maloeranlouipc, it's difficult to do otherwise with a laptop
01:18.46MaloeranI really searched for laptops without an OS but they had to be shipped, and I didn't have time for that before I fly to Venezuela
01:18.58louipcah
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09:34.04michelangeloHi guys
09:34.16michelangeloI'm interested in BRL-CAD
09:34.37michelangeloI need to understand if it can helps me
09:35.00michelangelois there anybody here?
09:36.34London_Beastyes
09:38.51michelangelohi London_Beast
09:39.22michelangeloI need to create a cad to build/compose a kitchen
09:39.53michelangelobut I don't know where I have to start
09:42.47michelangeloany ideas?
09:43.16alex_jonimichelangelo: what is the goal of that?
09:43.33alex_jonipictures to show around? media presentation?
09:43.36michelangeloI have to build a project that create a kitchen
09:43.56alex_jonido you need to design all furniture/appliances?
09:44.07michelangeloyes, too
09:44.21alex_jonithen you'll looking at quite a bit of work :)
09:44.37michelangeloI need to move the objects on the screen
09:45.25michelangeloand positioning them one near the other
09:45.27michelangeloand at the end print the image
09:45.37michelangelois it possible?
09:45.38alex_jonido you care about precise sizes and models?
09:45.42alex_jonior more that it looks right?
09:45.44michelangeloyes
09:46.18michelangeloI have my catalogues
09:46.32michelangelowith all graphical sheet
09:47.16michelangeloI can create them with a cad like autocad and then import them in the software on line
09:53.20michelangeloany ideas
09:53.21michelangelo?
09:53.48alex_jonimichelangelo: if you're new with software like this I'd give google sketchup a go
09:54.24michelangeloI know sketchup but it is a standalone
09:54.31michelangelonot a online cad
09:54.37alex_jonisure it is
09:54.57alex_joniyou can put models online if you want, but it runs locally
09:55.26alex_jonihttp://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=9cc30db305f2bb7bde6df08b6b6b91c9&prevstart=0
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11:51.43MaloeranGah. This laptop freezes with a horrible beep randomly within a couple hours with Linux, there must be some driver it really does not like
12:15.38MaloeranIt would be very ugly to have to pass acpi=off on a laptop
12:25.29alex_joniMaloeran: did you run memtest?
12:50.23MaloeranYes, no problem there
12:55.21alex_jonihow long?
13:13.36MaloeranI ran memtest until it completed. The freeze/beep occurs after a couple hours typically
13:13.52MaloeranI had no problem so far with aspi=off but that really is not a solution for a laptop
13:15.12MaloeranThe laptop had been compiling for hours yesterday just fine, it froze with a loud beep during the night once the compilation was complete
13:34.51alex_joniMaloeran: I'd still leave memtest overnight to see if that catches anything
13:35.00alex_jonimight be heat related
13:41.56MaloeranIt might be heat related, the problem seems to occur when the laptop gets too cold... It's fine as long as it's busy compiling :), probably because acpi power management kicks in
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13:48.06*** join/#brlcad sidyork (n=sidyork@jkaepc01.ohm.york.ac.uk)
13:48.48sidyorkHi, I'm wondering if anyone has had any luck in running brlcad on os X 10.5?
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13:52.17Axman6sidyork: heh, funny you mention it...
13:52.29Axman6ooo, i should see if it builds now i have the X11 patch!
13:53.24sidyorkI tried the pre-buil binary but it errors out when launching mged
13:55.25Axman6which error?
13:56.11sidyorkI've just deleted it but I'll reinstall now and paste the error message.
13:56.34Axman6something about fore foundation?
13:57.07Axman6core*
13:57.30sidyorkyep, that was it
13:59.37Axman6yeah i donated my MBP to brlcad to see if he could fix it, but not luck so far
14:00.22Axman6checking again though, because i installed an X11 patch
14:00.39sidyorkI'm specifically after some open source software to model some simple 3D structures for our machine shop. Do you think brlcad is suitable, I've had a read of the documentation so I understand there is a learning curve.
14:00.57sidyorkI'm not sure you'll have much luck, I had the patch installed when I tried.
14:01.25Axman6the patch from macosforge?
14:01.45London_BeastHas anyone read Aldous Huxley - Doors of Perception?
14:01.58*** join/#brlcad sidyork_ (n=sidyork@sns71-116.york.ac.uk)
14:02.07sidyork_Yep
14:02.53London_Beastsidyork_: is it good?
14:02.58London_BeastDoes it have pictures?
14:03.16London_BeastIs it written in a complicated language where you have to concentrate a lot to follow the thread?
14:03.57Axman6i think that yep might ave been for me...
14:05.01sidyork_Sorry, the yep was for axman6, I'm not a very experienced irc'er
14:07.14sidyork_axman6: thanks for the help, I'll wait until they release a version for 10.5
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14:18.08Axman6ok, it doesn't work with the ipv6 variant
14:18.27Axman6whoops
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15:11.22London_Beastbrlcad: listening to Iggy Pop, I realized that from the BRL-CAD the 70's are still breathing at me :)
15:12.14minutebrlcad: If you get a moment can you screenshot the problems in Safari 2, I only have Safari 3?
15:13.14Axman6minute: you talking about the new site?
15:13.45minuteyeah
15:13.53Axman6i noticed some issues in safari 3 too
15:13.59minuteDid you?
15:14.08brlcadminute: I don't have safari 2
15:14.17minutebrlcad: Oh, ok....
15:14.29Axman6which appear to be gone now...
15:14.50brlcadmotd is still horked, but that's probably just not hooked in?
15:15.06Axman6yeah it's fine now. excellent
15:15.16minutebrlcad: motd?
15:15.38brlcadthe quotes at the bottom
15:15.45minuteoh yeah
15:16.14brlcaddownload link is dead too
15:16.22brlcadbut that's just data content
15:16.26brlcadstyle looks great on 3
15:16.40minute:)
15:21.57minuteDownload link fixed.
15:23.06minuteQuotes fixed.
15:32.19brlcadlooks great on opera, firefox, and safari here
15:32.22minuteOh god, I'm so slow. Been developing this site for 5 months 4 weeks. :S
15:33.18minutebrlcad: Yeah, fully tested in all of them appart from one little problem I'm working on at the moment. I just need to fix the logo text thing in Internet Explorer and then I think it's good to go except for LDAP not being enabled.
15:33.53brlcadhehe
15:33.54alex_joniminute: I get an extra bottom scrollbar in opera
15:33.59brlcadawesome pic for the runtime libs :)
15:34.03alex_jonibut only for "Documentation"
15:34.11minutebrlcad: hehe
15:34.16minutealex_joni: I'll take a look.
15:34.22alex_joniminute: and "Support"
15:34.31minutealex_joni: 9.2?
15:35.03alex_joniVersion
15:35.04alex_joni9.24
15:35.13alex_joniBuild: 8816
15:35.13minutealex_joni: Can you try purging your cache? (Ctrl+Shift+R)
15:35.15brlcadminute: the timing is perfect, can announce the site on our anniversary :)
15:35.24minutebrlcad: :D
15:35.40minutebrlcad: What date is that?
15:35.42alex_joniminute: no difference
15:36.09brlcadminute: today.. :)
15:36.12minutealex_joni: Can you upload a screenshot to imagebin.ca
15:36.21minutebrlcad: :S
15:36.28alex_joniminute: sure..
15:36.34minutethanks
15:37.49alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/12545
15:38.28minuteuh, odd
15:39.12minuteI can't replicate that...
15:39.25brlcadis it only on the mediawiki pages?
15:39.44minuteNope.
15:39.54minuteApparently support and documentation.
15:40.19alex_joniminute: on pages which have "go" & "search"
15:40.30brlcadthose two are mediawiki pages :)
15:40.31minuteahh, so mediawiki only then
15:40.32alex_jonipages with "search" only are fine
15:40.33minutelol
15:40.34minutehehe
15:40.52minuteWorking on it...
15:41.14brlcadmaybe just missing a close brace?  that tab should be self-expanding now
15:41.33brlcadoooh
15:41.36alex_jonithe odd thing is that the extra scrollbar only moves the footer
15:41.36brlcadthat's why
15:41.43brlcadminute: scale your font up
15:41.55brlcadi think you used an older copy of the search tabs
15:41.59brlcadone that doesn't expand
15:42.30brlcador in migrating, just missing something that lets it expand to the content
15:42.35prasad_why is the bottom frame causing scrollbabars to appear on IE7
15:43.02minuteAhh, I remember - it has a bug in IE.
15:43.13minuteWhen it is self expanding it works fine in all browsers except IE.
15:43.32prasad_can u turn off scrollbars for ie?
15:44.33alex_joniyuck.. IE7 is really horrible
15:44.49alex_joniwouldn't have noticed though.. I barely use it
15:45.27minutealex_joni: Is the problem in Opera fixed?
15:46.16alex_joniminute: yup.. looks great
15:46.42alex_joniminute: http://imagebin.org/12546 <- IE7
15:47.02minuteman
15:47.11minuteI wish I had IE7 and not just IE6.
15:47.34alex_joniminute: I think I remember a plugin for firefox to preview in multiple browsers
15:47.56alex_joniI think it interpreted pages to replicate browser behaviour.. but I'm not 100% sure
15:48.27minuteoh
15:49.43minuteRunning system restore in preperation for installing IE7 and IE6 in parralel.
15:58.01minuteOk, it doesn't look too bad in IE7 here.
15:58.49minuteWorking on it.
16:00.56minuteFixored.
16:01.51minutealex_joni: Can you confirm?
16:02.15alex_joniminute: in opera it's great
16:02.23alex_joniin IE7 I still get the bottom scrollbar
16:02.27minutealex_joni: What about the documentation page in IE7?
16:02.35alex_jonion all pages
16:02.39minuteThe About page has special Drupal caching.
16:02.51minutealex_joni: Can you Ctrl+F5 on the Documentation page?
16:03.16alex_jonithe top div (About, Documentation, COmmunity, Develpment,..) seems to small
16:03.20alex_jonitext is off to the right
16:04.44alex_jonihttp://imagebin.org/12547
16:05.13alex_joniminute: it's the same on all pages
16:06.33minutehmm
16:09.07alex_joniIE 7.0.5730.11
16:09.59minuteYeah, it is something to do with font sizes.
16:10.26minutealex_joni: Any good now?
16:37.28alex_joniminute: yay..
16:37.46alex_joniit's not round anymore, but looks good enough
16:40.31minuteoh, I'll look into that - but I guess it is good to go.
16:53.28alex_joniyup, I'd say so too
16:53.55minuteexcept for IE6. I'll deal with that now
16:54.05yukonbobhello, cadheads
16:56.36minuteyukonbob: Hey yukonbob.
16:56.56*** join/#brlcad iraytrace (n=iraytrac@cocoa.sci.utah.edu)
17:01.29yukonbobhey minute  -- having fun whacking bugs on the website?
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22:57.06minuteyukonbob: Yeah, sorry about the slow response - had a chinese takeout at a friends house - have you noticed any?
22:57.47minutebrlcad: I'm working on the IE 6 and lower header text right now - anything else you can see that is prventing us with going ahead with a release (other than LDAP, of course).
23:10.55*** join/#brlcad Twingy (n=justin@74.92.144.217)
23:20.26minuteAnd I need to get myself a better graphics editing program than the GIMP.
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23:48.33minuteMaybe not, night night all.
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071222

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071222

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02:57.27IriX64regards
02:59.12IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/edit.png <--- bldging391  latest build :)
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15:02.41CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/ (4 files in 4 dirs): probably going to revert to a libbu solution, but manually null-terminate for now anyways
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18:27.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/win32-msvc8/Makefile.am:
18:27.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: add newly added project files to the dist for: bw2fb cat2fb cell2fb cmap2fb
18:27.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: fb2bw fb2cmap fb2fb fb2orle fb2rle fbanim fbcbars fbcmap fbcmrot fbcolor fbfade
18:27.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: fbframe fbfree fbgamma fbgammamod fbgrid fbhelp fblabel fbline fbpoint
18:27.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: fbscanplot fbstretch fbzoom gif2fb liborle libutahrle orle2fb pixautosize
18:27.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: pixflip2fb pl2fb polar2fb pp2fb rle2fb spm2fb
19:31.44CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/misc/flawfinder: the message was wrong for scanf() warnings about the %s modifier when all we know in the default case is that it's not a constant.
19:37.20CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/regress/flawfinder.sh: ignore false positives, finished reviewing all of level four issues too but keep it at five for regression testing
19:37.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/adrt/isst/slave/load.c: quell flawfinder warnings, check buffer lengths when printing into them
19:39.23CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cad_boundp.c: get rid of Mess, just did silly print-header-to-stderr+print-body-to-stdout that was mostly used for debugging. just fprintf the output for now (consider bu_log later).
19:39.49CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/nirt/parse_fmt.c: -> ws
19:40.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/proc-db/ (fence.c fence.h pipe.c): const params
19:40.55CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/util/loop.c: check length while printing into buffers
19:41.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vas4/init_ik.c: don't need popen decl. it's in stdio.h
19:45.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (configure.ac include/config_win.h src/fb/fbfade.c): rand() is c89/c90 so don't need/want to check for it. check for random() instead.
19:51.47CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fb/pl-fb.c: right idea to simplify the loop, but take it a little further.
20:04.12CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: bob added a new 'ae2dir' command to mged per request from dave loman where the command will report the direction vector for a given azimuth and elevation. there is an invert option to flip the vector around.
20:18.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/librt/view_obj.c: add the dir2ae pairing to the new ae2dir command.
20:20.16CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: declare new vo_dir2ae_cmd view obj command for dir2ae
20:21.39CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/cmd.c: header cleanup
20:24.10CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/mged/ (chgview.c cmd.c cmd.h): hook in the new dir2ae command
20:26.35CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/NEWS: just like ae2dir, added new dir2ae for calculating an az/el from a given direction vector.
20:52.53CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: query_ray seems to be blathering warnings/errors
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071223

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071223

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03:17.51Jameshello
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03:19.47starseekercool - Octave 3.0 :-)
03:27.23Jamesvery
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06:47.49yukonbob:)
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09:17.11minuteGod, after spending several hours making the new website compatible with Opera 9.2 Opera 9.5 is released which it is completely compatible with. By this time next week, no one will be using Opera 9.5. :(
09:17.16minute*2
09:32.14Axman6people are using opera now?
09:41.18minuteOh wait, wrong version - 9.5 is the alpha, 9.2 is the current.
09:41.26minuteAxman6: All my geeky friends use it ;)
09:41.40Axman6pfft
09:41.53minuteAnd so do I, the only problem I have with it is startup time - but that is fixed in 9.5 alpha.
09:43.36Axman6opera makes no sense to me, its interface confuses me way too much
09:43.42minuteuh?
09:43.51minuteYeah, I guess it has that problem.
09:44.04minuteBut once you get used to it it is funky.
10:39.26*** join/#brlcad elite01 (n=elite01@dslb-088-070-015-251.pools.arcor-ip.net)
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16:46.04starseekerbrlcad:  How much did you need to change itcl/itk to work with tcl/tk 8.5?  Could a changeset be isolated fairly easily?
16:49.25starseekertcl/tk 8.5 ebuilds are in now, still hard masked...
16:49.45starseekerLet's see how this goes...
16:50.08yukonbob8.5.0 was unleashed other day -- so no more 8.5b[x] required...
16:57.17starseekerRight.
16:57.40starseekerUnfortunately, it looks like itcl, itk, blt, and tkimg in the gentoo overlays aren't going to work yet
16:57.56starseekerthe first three won't compile against 8.5, and the forth seems to compile but brlcad wants to build it anyway
16:59.11starseekerpresumably brlcad tested the system blt and found it messed up...
17:00.02starseekerLooks like fedora is going to have similar problems...
17:00.37starseekerIf we can isolate brlcad's patches for tcl 8.5 and send them in, brlcad could become the hero of the tcl world for a day ;-)
17:00.45starseekerblt, tkimg, itcl...
17:08.11brlcadheh
17:08.38brlcadthey were all minor tweaks, iirc
17:08.49brlcadcould be that our system blt test is not working right too
17:08.56brlcadhave to check the config.log
17:09.14brlcadalas, I'm about to hit the road and will be awol for about two days
17:09.55brlcadi do have 8.5 final sources on my laptop, though, and plan to upgrade our bundling while on the road ;)
17:10.49brlcadMerry Christmas to everyone that celebrates it! :-)
17:12.15illethalMerry xmas =)
17:12.22illethalis it christmas already?
17:13.39brlcadclose enough
18:21.59*** part/#brlcad illethal (n=oden@c-69-137-199-63.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
18:29.19starseekerbrlcad:  Are we going to look at tile for a somewhat more native platform appearance?
18:29.36starseekermerry xmas indeed :-)
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22:10.46Axman6brlcad: merry christmas ;)
22:18.41alex_jonimerry christmas everyone:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=wskT6YfVB6E
22:18.56Axman6yes, and the rest, just about to say that :P
22:28.39*** join/#brlcad Elperion (n=Bary@p54875385.dip.t-dialin.net)
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071224

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071224

01:20.29*** join/#brlcad vedge (i=vedge@vedge.org)
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10:59.22dli../../../../src/adrt/librender/.libs/librender.so: undefined reference to `tie_prep0'
11:00.06dliMakefile.am error in -cvs? or it's my local problem
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21:20.50curiousyay, i suceeded installing brlcad
21:30.44curioushmm, now how to load .g files? i've tried one i've found and one of my previous experiments and both seem empty
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22:01.01curiousi'm quite total newb. i would like to try to see some example like electric motor
22:24.55curioushmm, yeah, neither mged test.g does not work (opening previously edited database )
22:41.23dlicurious, you can use menu to "create new"
22:41.52curiousyes, but how to restore it? creating new works, and file is created
22:42.10curiousbut neither opening from commandline or thru 'open' work
IRC log for #brlcad on 20071225

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071225

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08:18.07dliI have to patch Makefile.am in src/adrt/ for "lib = libcommon/libcommon.la"
08:18.30dliit happens when I try to build with gentoo ebuild though
09:13.10dlioh, have to filter LDFLAGS="-Wl,--as-needed"
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11:12.32*** join/#brlcad dli (n=dli@adsl-75-21-91-49.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
11:42.14dliI couldn't type anything with -cvs :(
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071226

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071226

00:07.50*** join/#brlcad cad15 (n=c690d08a@bz.bzflag.bz)
00:24.57*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592999.dsl.bell.ca)
00:26.43IriX64http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/inprogress.png      and     http://www3.sympatico.ca/mario.dulisse2/complete.png    <----  Version 7.11.0 on cygwin
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03:41.22*** join/#brlcad b0ef (n=b0ef@062016141081.customer.alfanett.no)
04:16.23dlibrlcad has different source files for ia32 and x86_64
05:48.45*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592999.dsl.bell.ca)
05:50.23IriX64http://rafb.net/p/LmHj4g49.html  <---- install time issues
06:12.38Axman6is IriX64 a bot or what?
06:15.37*** join/#brlcad IriX64 (n=mariodot@bas2-sudbury98-1177592999.dsl.bell.ca)
06:17.45dliIriX64, what's your ./configure line?
06:18.17IriX64<PROTECTED>
06:19.29dliIriX64, add: --enable-optimized --enable-tcl-build --enable-tk-build  --with-pic --with-tag
06:19.47IriX64ok i'll try that
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15:53.41*** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || Channel logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD is on scan.coverity.com but still offline || Release 7.12.0 coming soon to a desktop near you
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20:57.08yukonbobhello, whirled
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071227

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071227

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01:36.51cadguyMerry Christmas all!
02:05.10digitalfredycadguy tanks :)
03:19.04cadguyAnyone familiar with Visual Studio?
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11:57.55MinuteElectroncadguy: Yes, I am...
11:57.59MinuteElectronBut you're not here.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071228

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071228

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20:55.08MinuteElectronbrlcad: When you get back from your road trip; you have a PM.
20:55.11MinuteElectron:)
20:55.36MinuteElectronActually, disregard that - you don't. :)
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23:25.25IriX64?+e6?!?!?    <--- ;)
23:27.30IriX64can i remove those screen shots from my blog now or would you like them left for advertising :)
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071229

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071229

00:56.41starseekerLink? :-)
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13:17.19Paul58Hello! How can I uninstall brl-cad, because I want to install new version?
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13:21.25elite01make uninstall or make remove or so i think
13:32.20Axman6Paul58: you don't need to uninstall to install a new version though
15:08.09Paul58Axman6: Thank you.
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071230

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071230

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11:47.38MinuteElectronbrlcad: Second thoughts.. PM :D
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18:38.00Paul58Hi. I get error message: fb_open: no such device "/dev/sgip".
18:38.08Paul58What to do?
18:39.11Paul58I try to learn from BRL-CAD Manual..
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IRC log for #brlcad on 20071231

IRC log for #brlcad on 20071231

02:23.42*** join/#brlcad starseeker (n=CY@ip72-218-17-235.hr.hr.cox.net)
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09:15.31Paul58On Debian Etch have installed brl-cad version 7.10.4 from tarball.
09:16.10Paul58When try to raytrace the Mug.g from tutorial, brl-cad crash.
09:16.57Paul58Where to send bug report if this is possible?
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11:15.40Paul58Is here anybody?
11:17.58Paul58Happy New Years!
11:30.35Z80-BoyPaul58: Australia?
11:32.50Paul58No! Just to say something good. Europa.
11:34.25Paul58I study Animation Techniques in BRL-CAD
11:34.36Paul58and all works well, but
11:35.21Paul58when I do Key Frame Interpolation
11:35.47Paul58with bash script ``key-chans''
11:35.56Paul58I get an error message:
11:36.28Paul58cmd: file chans.vsize 0
11:36.38Paul58chan 0:  File 'chans.vsize', Column 1
11:36.47Paul58File 'chans.vsize', Line 3:  time sequence error 8 > 0.75
11:36.54Paul58aborting
11:37.09Paul58What to do to avoid this?
11:37.49Paul58The tutorial have a bug.. :(
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14:54.43Axman6happy new year all
14:55.06Z80-BoyAxman6: the same to you
14:55.18Axman6:)
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17:30.34CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/TODO: tested parallel crash report generation. it's still busted. for some reason, the BU_MAPPED_FILE semaphore is getting acquired multiple times simultaneously.
17:31.21CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/config_win.h: move USE_PROTOTYPES up with the __STDC__ define since they're closely related
17:35.22CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/ (db.h machine.h nmg.h): c89 is assumed, remove the \!__STDC__ protections/sections
17:35.40CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/raytrace.h: remove the \!RECORD_DEFINED sections.. struct record (v4) should always be definable if we can assume v4. better to reduce the header file conditionals regardless
17:36.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/burst/ (Hm.c Hm.h HmGetc.c): remove the __STDC__ protections, c89 is a given
17:36.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/g-nff.c: use the new bu_temp_file() instead of tmpfile()
17:39.01CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/nastran-g.c: file pointer, not file descriptor. there's a difference.
17:39.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/conv/iges/g-iges.c: use new bu_temp_file() instead of tmpfile() for temporary files
17:40.26CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/fbed/std.h: remove the if not __STDC__ section
17:41.26CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/fortran.c: really odd wrapper.. the uppercase variant seems to never get used/declared contrary to the comment. either way, remove the non __STDC__ section
17:42.18CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbn/wavelet.c: remove the __STDC__ protections, it's a given
17:45.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/bomb.c:
17:45.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: fix at least one race-condition problem with parallel crash report generation.
17:45.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: acquire a semaphore when printing into the tracefile filename and acquire the
17:45.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: BU_SEM_SYSCALL semaphore when printing so we don't interleave with other
17:45.05CIA-30BRL-CAD: printing that may be going on. do the same when printing the intentional core
17:45.08CIA-30BRL-CAD: dump message.
17:45.45CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/brlcad_path.c: consistently lowercase
17:47.29CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/crashreport.c: make a note that bu_crashreport() is NOT thread-safe. it could have an internal semaphore wrapper, but for now, just let callers protect (i.e. leave it up to bu_bomb())
17:47.52CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/list.c: no longer need assert.h
17:53.42CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/ (malloc.c vls.c): move bu_strdup_message out of malloc.c and into vls.c, add bu_vls_strcmp() and bu_vls_strncmp() as new functions instead of macros so the sanity checks can be added.
17:54.55CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: declare bu_vls_strcmp() and bu_vls_strncmp() as functions instead of macros, remove the plethora of __STDC__ protections on the assertion macros and friends.
17:55.56CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/ (librt/nmg_fcut.c librt/table.c librt/tree.c mged/dodraw.c): remove the non __STDC__ sections, c89 is a given now
17:57.36CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/vdeck/vdeck.c: comment and header cleanup, convert k&r prototypes to ansi, doxygenify
18:03.58brlcadPaul58: that's when you run that command inside mged, yes?  (some commands are mged commands, some are unix command-line commands)
18:05.02brlcadinside mged, you shouldn't need the -F:1 unless you want to create a window on an X11 :1 xserver
18:09.21Paul58brlcad: I try to create Cup from the Manual.
18:09.27brlcadokay
18:11.24brlcadoutside of mged on the unix command-line, type fbhelp -- what does it say for "Device: ..."?
18:11.30Paul58Ewerything works well except raytrace.
18:11.44brlcadit should say something like /dev/X or /dev/ogl
18:12.41brlcadalso, did you compile yourself or use a binary installation?
18:12.51Paul58fbhelp produce here the blank screen ..
18:13.09brlcadahh, sounds like you compiled with the ogl interface ..
18:13.15Paul58I use Window Maker with plenty of Desktops..
18:13.22brlcadit provokes a nasty X11 bug that blacks out the screen
18:13.44Paul58on that Desktop, where I run fbhelp command in xterm, the screen is blank.
18:13.46brlcadmove the mouse around, or ctrl-c to kill the window
18:14.00brlcadit should recover the desktop
18:14.06Paul58Device: /dev/ogl
18:14.15brlcadyeah, that's no good ...
18:14.15Paul58yes, it recovers the Desktop
18:14.42brlcadyou compiled brl-cad from sources?
18:14.50Paul58from tarball
18:15.19Paul58installed it from tarball
18:15.29brlcadfrom a binary or source tarball?
18:15.39Paul58wait ..
18:15.47brlcadthere shouldn't be a binary with ogl enabled...
18:16.09brlcadif it was from sources, you want to have used the --without-opengl configure option
18:16.54Paul58http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113559
18:17.10Paul58here I select  brlcad_7.10.4_ia32.tar.bz2
18:17.22brlcadwow
18:17.24Paul58download it, unpack, etc.
18:17.51brlcadokay, then that was an unfortunate mistake.. there shouldn't have been any binaries uploaded with ogl enabled for 7.10.4 .. :(
18:18.02Paul58:(
18:18.03brlcadyou can still work around the problem
18:18.20Paul58or download the source?
18:18.21brlcadyou have to specify the /dev/X framebuffer
18:18.28brlcador yeah, recompile from sources
18:18.42brlcadin mged try this:  rt -F/dev/X
18:18.52Paul58I decide to recompile it from source
18:18.53brlcadshould pop up a 512x512 window with a raytrace
18:19.00Paul58OK
18:20.46Paul58I tried  rt -F/dev/X and here I get a small window with 'bu_log: write error' message
18:21.17Paul58I hit Ok button and brl-cad disappeares.
18:21.22brlcadgah
18:21.46Paul58I think I go now to download sources..
18:21.47brlcaddo you get the same message if you run "mged -f" ?
18:21.54Paul58wait..
18:22.14brlcadthat will run mged in foreground mode and changes the logging channels
18:23.27Paul58I run now 'mged -f' and here I get the mged command window and the other, graphics window
18:23.51brlcadk, and then rt -F/dev/X ?
18:23.57Paul58wait..
18:24.03brlcadsame write error or works?
18:25.08Paul58No errors, but nothing happen.
18:25.17Paul58It works?
18:25.27brlcadno, that's not right --  you should see a new window
18:25.43brlcadwhat about "rt -F/dev/Xl" (with an "ell")
18:27.02Paul58Wow, it works with "rt -F/dev/Xl" !! :)
18:27.11brlcadahhh, great
18:27.21brlcadso the lingering option isn't working for some reason
18:27.48Paul58Can I help you now somehow?
18:28.29brlcadyou already have :)
18:28.33Paul58:)
18:28.43Paul58Thank you!
18:29.00CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/BUGS: the new linger-by-default option doesn't seem to be working at least with 7.10.4 on ia32 linux, reported by Paul58
18:29.16brlcadif you set the FB_FILE environment variable to /dev/Xl, you'll not ever need to use -F/dev/Xl
18:29.18Paul58My system is Debian Etch.
18:29.30Paul58OK
18:29.45brlcad(e.g. add it to your .bash_profile: export FB_FILE=/dev/Xl)
18:29.47Paul58Where can I set this variable?
18:29.50Paul58OK
18:30.04brlcadthen next time you log in, it'll be automatically set
18:30.16brlcador next time you create a new terminal window
18:31.00Paul58Thank you!
18:31.38Paul58I try it out now.
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18:43.17Paul58brlcad: It works, but I must to run mged with -f option. Thank you!
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19:07.47brlcadPaul58: glad to hear it
19:07.58Paul58:)
19:07.59brlcadhopefully the other issues will be fixed for the upcoming 7.12 release
19:08.11brlcad(hopefully in jan)
19:08.13Paul58I hope so too.
19:08.55Paul58Thank you!
19:15.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/str.c: (log message trimmed)
19:15.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: add initial implementation of bu_strlcat() and bu_strlcpy() that provide safe
19:15.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: wrappers around the string functions of similar name. if they're not available,
19:15.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: then the strn family are used and appropriate null-termination behavior is
19:15.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: matched from the strl family. warnings are printed if we exceed the specified
19:15.17CIA-30BRL-CAD: max size. similar to bu_strdup(), the interface is wrapped in macros so that we
19:15.19CIA-30BRL-CAD: can report file:line numbers when there is a problem. additionally, move
19:15.43CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/malloc.c: moved bu_strdupm() to new src/libbu/str.c file
19:16.50CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/include/bu.h: include stddef.h for size_t and declare the new bu_strlcatm() and bu_strlcpym() functions and their associated bu_strlcat/bu_strlcpy macro wrappers.
19:17.11CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/src/libbu/Makefile.am: add str.c to the compilation
19:19.15CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add the new src/libbu/str.c file to the windows build
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20:25.54CIA-30BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * 10brlcad/ (78 files in 10 dirs): header cleanup, more address removal
21:19.45Paul58I study file:///usr/brlcad/rel-7.10.4/share/brlcad/7.10.4/html/manuals/Anim_Tutorial/index.html
21:20.35Paul58When I do tabinterp
21:20.35Paul58I get an error message:
21:20.50Paul58cmd: file chans.vsize 0
21:20.58Paul58chan 0:  File 'chans.vsize', Column 1
21:21.06Paul58File 'chans.vsize', Line 9:  time sequence error 8 > 0.75
21:21.13Paul58aborting
21:21.52Paul58I did everything like red there, but get this error. Why?
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